The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-12 00:00:00

11°1 " - .- .re, as t° br , e v a p i ne:s. fie -o the hooP i ta ;as no f raCt° r . died froolrfF.:l 11' brain THIS EVENING. t the workbouto:" CoroneViii m powell• following e lawman, 51 : be carpent er bsr, n 31000 de 3served the to l e a.ked !Obi riding " I° l o ol ng up s him. 9- , upon„ n o at t e ndant:4° o • of an hour , tal Death' KETs : 1 ' • THIS EVENING. :to 575. 55i. .to 425. e 61t. i! .to --0. " . to 295. 4 . ,„ — „ e 511. . to 27s , '"„ -- 515. .to '29s. 11 " . to —s. to 345. fl 2 1: Vii . . to 31s. 'in Vs. . to 20s. " e . to 19s. il ne . to 18i. P n ` . ne• o 10d. per S v t° ol. Od. Pe r Lad' to 425. per fi st. 25/. os. per ------ --- istw el _ . „.. 2:3 50 22 24 - o' 19 21 26 20 '. '- no 31 -. / 23 :3 0 / 22 25 46 23 24 •- 4 4 45 4S 4 " 26 :30 ... .91' l out thect ° --Feb. 6 . C %cef t tin to-claY , Ivy. ease. „1 3 ,V 11 :3_, 23 OLI :',", Oa ii Od . OJ 13 al °' 11). 5.10.1. tn 0 1 0 9 s ) t. 70 0 0 0 e. 0 9 7 .) 6 0 6 v —5 0 5 5 0 0 10 —Feb. s_r J. a et was gi9 , — 01 141 b. 0 1 6 .......... 1 ............ I 6 ....... ` 0 .17; .. —Feb. 6. eP . old ' t ro, e is r, Boni. !f 41b. s. d. l 60 I 'o —"" 13 0 0 • 2601 b.... 0 . 1 1 . 6 0 i ° 13 0 14 0 40Ib l3O 40 0 lb 45 03.—Oat 5, 3bal'' —s. to 1 0 ' to I / , 14a. i Pork, 0.1. t 'ey, 9s. 44 '' °Bt ed.--cmva O P 4 Is,to 10,'" 4 1 ' 11 L i av morn .5, ,min g which wo° 9°. oo 3rn-stsek• i s el on the P re Tire, 3411) bridge 7 t he lig beYon u nt itf large 9 ° ' t 1 4 !mists OA° SECOND EDITION: SUN-OFFICE, Seven o' clock. 'llfl LONDON GAZETTE . . '4IOIfs,BANIKRUPTCIES SUPERSEDED. h Oliti,"4 SAN DYS, bookseller, Bell-court, Broo s. -market. lIENhV,„REYNTOLDS, cabinet-maker, Ma nche r ; rEARCE, victualler, Bishopsgate Within. L.,'"‘tlikft 1,, BANKRUPTS. iF.N:itv -+ iLLS, s choolmistress, Hammersmith. ~,11-1,1,;,0YCE, oilman, Essex-street, Strand. ',4,11N-.I',,,,IIOWDITCH, grocer, Exeter. 'tlO),(''NES merchant. St. MildrW'as-court. hir e. AS INMAN BRUNT, tanner, Whittington, Derby- THO, 4 , WILLIA,S, GILBERT, coal-dealer, Birmingham. j°llVAtt OOPER, farmer, Farmington, .Gloucestershire. ji:31 1: "i," currier, Whitehaven, Cumberland. tit's- rk. „JOIN I-0,`.4, victualler, Ernest-stpeet, A rt,!ge_ P a ,uOO4t;,tat.COMRS, Coventry, and WILL e I rs M J ACOMBS. 1, NVlL,,Warwickshire ribbon-manufactl”. 4;44 MORRIS ' ROWE, grocer, Stamford, Lincoln_ Yorkshire. i t liAltit) 34ATTERSON, NANILLI--,rm A ,UGUST US Leeds. BU e S h rli, is c b t' u ra il n d r e h r a ,B , rif , h in th eo el i m m s b to i, n e: 1 4,1, , 4 ATHER, scrivener, r , .1110‘.'4 ETCHES - q tioneer, Doncaster. ~ q .4,t s s. .. , auc iivonthi i N e ELSON, paper manufacturer, Stibbington, Illh., 4111 ft -- 1 ' 1 MEN 1 *IALPARLIA Th ' • no USE OF LORDS. , t Lord h . !i/ t ktitt 'PI met to-day, at half-past two o'clock, in t iow e ' ..i lkia rne e t _of Pri v il rgeß, w h en t h e c l a i m o f Viscount „7. vot e for Irish Representative Peers was al toTHouse then adjourned during pleasure. . 111 AFTESBURY again took his seat on the o'clock. ''ENBOROUGH moved for a return of the e° ith China, and the tonnage of the different —. gaged therein. Also a prospective return of " India, to be furnisbed by the Court of did not think that the worth; of (e definite enough. On that account he to say whether the return could be fur- ' E NBOROUGH, to relieve the Noble Lord, lat the very same estimate had last Ses -1 ted to the House by the Board of Con 44htlii," now wished was, that the same should be Y the Court of Directors. t b~ t otlAßT • URBANCES IN IRELAND. th e p y Lords, I beg leave to give notice, tl itt d itt t : ' ,.; 3 4 next I will bring in a Bill to put an end to the ot t „. a ues now prevalent in Ireland. On yo, 4% 1 ." I will explain the principles of, and ,„'L t)ti TY for, such a Bill, and now move that ah Ps he summoned for that day. ' 'i' he " e r of the d a y f o r a Committee on the Lunacy thetitv Sy n read. Ph' lIN PORD said he bad a strong objection to reit -tiej 1 41,,Pe of that Bill. Their Lordships had '' fs e ': t to t hem any facts upon which such a Bill N te ,'"nded. He would pay all attention to the th t lil e k , " by his Noble and Learned Friend on the by ti n! "he had no doubt their Lordships would, but T h S ' o , °lila not to legislate upon statements made nor without facts before them in evidence. I I Pr e ht Nihi o °Posed t o t a k e t h e b us iness connected with Tart t ," of lunacy o ut of the hands of the Court of bui 9 il4.hut he h a d never h ear d an y com pl a i n t of the t te p: e htheCourt of Chanceryhad discharged that duty. The :t l, l were to be appointed as Commissioners, but ,; 7 t ere to perform their duties it did not appear. Vi Per,: '"t Possible care should be taken both as regarded l ak a : 44 14 and property of persons affected by this bill. ea that lunatics who had but small property should 1 41 4t p ort i on of that property expende d b y a set o f o 114 1 1 )n ers, who w ere t o be s trew e d about the country. th, 'N w i ll thre e comm i ss i oners, two c l er k s , an d fi ve new 44 're to h e create d, to b e pa id f or e ith e r by t mtti4 ite 0 _ 44 1 by the property of the lunatics, and it was A 44 , g,Ln these tim es o f econom y an d r e tr e nchment that I qty f °i nce sh ou ld b e create d w i t h out s h ow i ng a ne- N, N e ill. i t. No such n e cessity had been shown in the tyt oti t 4 t, " ,, , and th ere f ore the measure was uncalled for. uOof et N said the custom of the country h a d been af Pe E dward 111., that the Crown had the custody t * , 11•4 i z 'itl the condition of lunatics, but the power of c hancellor over lunatics did not vest in him as At t i ti lfru a neellor, but by a separate commission. Yet i t to C a r u v ,"ible for the Chancellor to attend personally to and therefore it became necessary for Masters 't4t, eery, and other persons, to assist him in such 111 ' 4 " Chancellor but as Commissioner of Lunacy. (LEFT SPEAKING ) Th, llo -USE OF COMMONS. % .4,;_tmEER entered the House shortly after four o'clock. trotn the Bank of England, presented ae the dividends paid by the Bank during the lasi 4 . l ' .l - 1 4 : 11 eY presented accounts from the Tax-office. 4 11 414 r ' 1 e - t ;11 . 0 -N presented a petition from the soap t4o, urers uf Saltash, praying for a repeal of the duty Si"' 14' ( : )li t ptitt o ' r SKIP\VITH presented a petition from the Lkiti °f l an d on th e li ne o f th e i n t e nd e d London and tiL'tgA,ma railway, in favour of that measure. ts il ld errnan WOOD moved for certain returns rela growth and culture of malt. The Hon. Mem ro,44i,re'ented a p e titi on from the tea-dealers, brush tiok-a,dertakers, and others of London, praying for a ° nserva nce of the Lord's Day. 1:1 of Ltiß t , THE JEWS. t t ,,, t ' 4 ,1 e ,,. - 'INGTON presented a petition from persons tO4 O ”`Ptit Persuasion, resident in London, praying for a 1i i . 4 0 /1 1'4 ,!Iteir disabilities. In presenting this petition,. “"iber obherve.l that lie concurred entirely sthttli44preyer. , la had been called upon to request the hi t iedi s °. the House to the petition, in consequeuc l e l of * let) Nition of the Hon. Member for Finsbury (I r. 0 14 . I. fi4 whom he would name a f lay , when he 4, lll 4, ff " ri ng forward a motion for leave to bring in a 14 4, c , e et tl'e purposes prayed for by the petition. The Ith Nieman then gave notice to that effect for the 4 1 . 4 Moo,. g 1 4 t e g I, CI3Is INELL expressed his pleasure at the state *o,li th at had been made by the Hon. Member, and hell dpot t he time was not far distant when every sect Placed under disabilities on account of their Celt ii9lollB. ' o l 4'4 * 1\ LOP presented several petitions from Port- Ch 4 ,, lt tr 4 ;i o f4r a better observance of the Sabbath Day—for te" P th nf the law regarding lay communicants of the SCOtland, and also praying that that House (Is 4ide r the propriety of sitting at an earlier hour ( p. („Y than it did at present. tl i t „ t 7 k,; (I) it , III3 ETT had - great pleasure . in seconding the ti. 44 t0, I °. One of the great evils that had attended it gby o f Commons for many years past was the ,:°,l,4ldile''itht instead of day. All night-work was had 111 1 44, possibl y avoided.--(Laughter.) Beasts of prey tiq xi 4 thei r d epre d at i ons b y n i g ht. B a ts, owls, and Ile NI p4,c'at: : r entiles were most active by night. He had ti tili ' l t,ll t t. °)ns upon the same subject to present to the ktifil 4 te :f .sb "C' that the country could not endure the con• 14,,, 1 tt such a corrupt and boroughmongering practice, 1 114 tt 'lt, intention, if any Member would second t ,htl l %;l l - 4 s ' e an adjournment every evening at the time "41 % , -Q ttse,, -a „ a diQurn. Why should they not come down to t hai k Wer e "" time the Chief Justice went into his Court . . ,the People entitled to their best hour+ in hoti• -°n.why should not the law-makers bestow 11 1 th "In framing the laws, as well as those who O'cZ 4 ° ? '4; l. 4 1 . '1 ' If isI , N ELL also supported the prayer . of the -44 1 t) :4 otinisters objected to sit by day in con -111,..°4 1. t%. their double characters in the Legislature ti e4t ivP, the former was the most important, ~e• rt‘rl s ;" t i ntight be transacted at night. It might 6 41 , ,"e inconvenient for mercantile men.- - Nl" t ile That cheer was probably from a 45, 1 ••,e4tl ema • • • 41 1 . 1 , th at n resident in London,. but it should be T ct., t 0,,,, ..ere were many mercantile men from . Leeds . "" devoted all their time to their Pad) I i:1111)014 ~ we e d left their mercantile business altogether. c , uld be given to professional men who " 4 ti °adthat it wsuld interfere with their practice. He, • ittttno .4 th RYtnpathy for the professional men who House compulsorily, and it should he to 0,4' 1 l t f t taht there were man members of the Irish bar ti eir Professions to attend to Parliament. As I,4o,lt4::)l,i'h.oolchie.."°r inconvenience of his Majesty's Minis t)t 4 tlt• r ecollect that the House were their masters, -a Y" f,,s ) ter t -rv ants, and he submitted whether it would 84, 1 011 sit four entire days, and leave two entire 4 Tr i tt Propftini:te Ko r.si t -1 k ( 2 1111) said it was perfectly that the ' ho t could be inconvenient to his ajes y thi pt te, if . "hen the question came regularly before r o ' 4 (.h att tdaould appear to be the general wish to , 11, t . t_ tehat_Plan, Ministers would certainly have 44,4 4 dt)llN'ver to press their convenience forward tht g i, 'ON count ettl o f sup por not omit that opportunity of Pktro ll t to the petition which referred to the a ge WI it existed at present in ScotlAnd. fats. 38 40 23 28 54 1" 24 e 44 i t 4(3 24 4 0 5 5 Cot t 29 34 46 kelL 4 ' t tee f 40 40 4 r „ 0 P 31 44 ° NI. ''r e e t ° o 23 40 40 ' 4 h e i f 22 32 40 1 44 d at fi ve 2t ; 34 '37 fur,,' LLLE N , 19 tt ‘ 4 3 2 26 Js 41 4 46 44 e With 27.. 41 s"t en. 4 4 bi t t evfn u ' a g" l 25 23 49 kt °4 "f 26 M : 34 4rl 'l4 I tl GREy 22 0 0 4 0 tth." 4 4;‘ ) 0! 2 . , tlot : I Were d. s. d. prepare(L, ° T . EL "t ' —Feb. 8. e 5 1 4 , i '. 40 0 041 - LENf to 53c ,fi n e Y eay t h a .to 51s. 1 3 5 34, t rol. 4 ill. to 475. 8 3e 824. • to 5 7,. pe s.si. 1. 1e 4 4 4 A111: 4 1 : 0 11 tn 425. 11 1 ii. ed Beans. ( " I • 1 (No. 1),613.) It came from a quarter of that country to which Scotch men were deeply indebted on account of the glorious contest which formerly existed there for their religious liberties.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He trusted that his Majesty's Government would, on the consideration of this important question, see it meet and proper to grant as a boon to the people of Scotland, that patronage extended to one-third of the whole belonging to the Church of Scot land which was vested in the Crown—(Hear, hear) —and although it had not hitherto been exercised in such a manner as gave satisfaction to the people, he hoped the old system would be entirely discontinued. He would not leave it, however, to the good will of the Government, because they being English men, and not Presbyterians, could not know the feelings of the people. He begged to express his full concurrence in the prayer of the petition, and hoped another opportunity would be afforded him, of expressing at large his opinions on the subject. Mr. CLAY presented a petition from the inhabitant householders of Shoreditch, praying for a repeal of the house and window tax. The petitioners expressed their confidence in the intentions of his Majesty's Government to reduce the taxation of the country, and they were most unwilling to embarrass them. At the same time they considered it necessary to call the attention of the Legis lature to the unequal and very grievous nature of the taxes. The Hon. Member expressed his entire concur rence in the prayer of the petition, and would take another opportunity of expressing more at large his sentiments on the subject. At present he would only say that the tax was most objectionable, especially as it pressed with such peculiar severity on the working classes. Mr. COBBETT gave notice to the Noble Lord oppo site, that on his proposal to go into a Committee of Supply, his intention was to submit to the House a statement of the grievances of the people with regard to taxation, to show its monstrous inequality—to demonstrate, that in some cases the poor man paid forty times as much as the rich man, and that on an average he paid ten times as moult. He hoped he could then show to the satisfac• tion of the House, that until some specific pledge was given as to its reduction, they should not go into a Committee of Supply.—(Hear.) Mr. HUME begged to ask, whether his Majesty's Go vernment were prepared to state the day on which they would come down to the House, and announce their in tention respecting the reduction of taxation. Lord ALTHORP said the balance sheet, as far as it had gone, at present looked favourable, but he could not at present say how it was likely to be at the end of they ear. ELECTION PETITIONS. The SPEAKER announced that petitions had been lodged in the House-keeper's Office, against the returns made for Newry, Cork, and, we believe, Galway. SHIPPING INTEREST. Mr. YOUNG gave notice that, on the 22d of April, he should move for the appointment of a Select Committee on the shipping interest. ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY. _ _ The SPEAKER announced that the House had attended his Mijesty this day with the address of the House, to which his Majesty had been pleased to return the following most gracious answer. " I thank you for your loyal and dutiful address, and rely with confidence upon the determination you have ex pressed to maintain inviolate the Legislative Union between Great Britain and Ireland ; and you may be assured, that in exercising the powers of Government for the suppression of all acts of violence and outrage, I shall think it my duty .to assist you, to the utmost of my power, in removing all just grounds of complaint in every part of my dominions."—(Loud cheers followed this answer, espe cially from the Opposition.) IRISH CHURCH REFORM. Lord ALTHORP rose at half-past five, and addressed the House as follows:—lo coming forward to propose the measure of which I have given notice, I do so because it is a measure connected with the Government of Ireland. I am quite sure it will not be considered by any gentleman who has heard me speak, that I come forward to perform this duty because I am more competent than my Right Honourable Friend, the Secretary for Ireland. I doubt not but that he would have performed this task touch better than myself, but as this is a measure of his Majesty's Government, it has been thought best, by myself and colleagues, to follow the example set us by preceding Administrations, an I appoint a person standing in the highest situation in this House, to bring forward this measure, rather than the particular Minister, to whose department it might naturally be thought to belong.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I will not, however, detain the House by making any apologies for myself, but will pro ceed to explain as deafly as I can the grounds of the measure I intend to propose, and the provisions I should wish to submit for your consideration. In the first instance, however, I think it desirable to go back a little into the history of the legislation of Ireland, in order to show what has been done and what still remains to be done, to remedy evils under which that country laboured. Nine years ago, I bad the honour of submitting to this House a motion with respect to the state of Ireland, though I do not pretend to say that, at the time, I was fully acquainted with the circumstances in which Ireland was placed, or that, unconnected as I am with that country, I could be wholly aware of the grievances which afflicted it. But it must be evident to the House that the grievances which I then selected would be those which then pressed most prominently on our attention. I wish to recall to the recollection of the gentlemen who then heard me, what the grievances were which I then stated to exist. I stated then, as I must state now, that many of the grievances of Ireland were entirely beyond the reach of legislative enactments—(Hear, hear) were grievances which it was utterly impossible any laws could entirely remedy. I said then, as now, that those grievances must depend on the inhabitants of the county itself; upon the good feeling of parties one towards another; and upon the conduct of both the richer and the poorer classes in their relative conditions. The grievances I then stated were several. Catholic disabilities was one which I brought forward ; the ex clusion of office by law at that time ; the existence of Orange and Ribbon Societies, which occasioned great evil to the country ; the tithe system, the Church Establishment ; the Grand Jury cess ; the taxes that pressed heavily on the people of Ireland, and the ob jectionable laws between landlord and tenant. I should wish now to draw the attention of the House to those as they now exist, and in their altered state. The Catholic disabilities are removed, and therefore I have nothing to say on that point. With regard to Catholics being employed under Government, to which reference has been made, the only rule Go vernment ought to have in view is not to con sider the religion of the party employed, but impartially to select those who will best discharge the duties of office.—(Loud cheers.) In a former de bate, it was stated that in the case of stipendiary Ma. gistrates, no Catholics had bee❑ employed. I believe that to be a mistake. I don't know the number, but some Catholics have been appointed. Mr. Magann and Mr. Galway, I believe are both Catholics; but whether that be so or not, I can assure the House, the question of religion was not made a consideration in the appointment. The appointment being one of a temporary nature, the individuals selected were selected impartially to ful fil the office. Another observation has been made with respect to the Sheriffs. Twat is accidental, because in former years Catholic Sheriffs had been appointed, and it is merely accidental that in this year they are not; they are all, I believe, Protestants.—(A cry of " All but one.") But with respect to the Lord Lieutenants of the Counties, •everal of them have been selected from the Catholics. With respect to other appointments, Catholics have been in them; and I am sure Government will not do its duty it it does not continue to appoint Catholics where they are fit for office, just as readily as they would appoint Protestants—(Loud cheering)—and as the majority of Irishmen are Catholics, I apprehend as their education and fitness for office increases, no doubt in proportion appointments will be given to the Catholic population. Now the next grievance is the state of the Orange Societies. I sincerely believe that the feelings which produced those societies still continues to exist. We shrived our inclination to put down these societies by the bill which we passed during the last Session. With respect to the tithe system, Sir, the great grie vance is, the mode in which it interferes with the power of the occupiers in the cultivation and urn. rovetnent of the soil, without the improvement goin 4 against the interest of the party who has im proved the land. Ju the principles on which we / ..-- ~ A , „,_ ~..... ...... ~. • . .... , 4'- ( ~ .17, . .:', ,, / ,ftv,•• I:: ~..- _ , - iv , ir lik . : it.prz..:-. -- ..., .4! ) ( C." r )".„ 1 ,-(10 _,... 11,7;f.: - /;'4 - 8 . , C ) ‘ . 7.%.1:( • ' , r,7 q4o , a;' - ' - '' 4 . i / ot l / 4 c - . ..„:w . ~ 4, ~ 4 : ....___ i, L ~.-_\-.• :5,-.-./...: - -_ ,-, ..;A: -,.-- _,.: 4 ,.....,..., .., , ~,,, 1 • *l'4, - - -_-.:i::,1-. - , . f,: A 4 4:- -41 • . e.,‘'4,' - • ~` ;w 4 ' t../ 4 / 4 'l l , ---=---. . - Al - • ' - ' W"tko''' ,f) - 0 7' . , ',e' - '*r . ; - ,.( . - ~.,,I t / / - I, \ .•'-'.-S' v.* -ii-,..--- , - - 1 - ,v,.. TI, ,i, 1 ~ 4 i 0 7 -64 - ..;1 11 1 11 1112 ,! Vl3 ) ~,. -1 , -- - 1, 'Li• 'il - i, ' I 111 ,111 , 1..... - • .ri: . 114 1 , 4 ' ' .- . 'l.O r r ., , It --. -1- J.. „V A , ' (PRICE 7D.) perpetual upon a tender of six years purchase.—(Hear, hear.) T , ,is, it will he seen, will he a great benefit to those per ms, as it will give them a permanent advantage in any improvements which they may make on the land, and it provides against every claim which the Bishop might make to their disadvantage. The Bishops will stiil continue to receive the same rent as at present, but they will not have the power they at present possess of increasing their claims. This can only be done by an Act of Parlia ment, and therefore it will be necessary to snake a❑ Art inereasing the provisions of the Act which gives the Bishops the present power of making leases. To those gentlemen who object to applying the Church property to other pur poses, I will merely say that I expect their concurrence in fsvour of this proposition, that whatever fund may be raised by these purchases, will be at the disposal of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) I cannot at the present moment tell what may be the amount of those pur morses in the first instance. We know what may be the amount if the whole by purchased, for it is stated that 500,0001. is the value to the tenant, and 10,0001. only to the Bishops.—(Hear, hear.) Whatever may be the amount, it is evident that the mea• sure will be of great advantage to the tenants. Sir, I have now stated the whole of the plan of his Ma jesty's Ministers. Ido not mean to say that this is the only measure that is required with respect to the Church of Ireland. Ido not mean to say that there are not other measures with respect to non-residence, with respect to pluralities,—(Hear,) and for the purpose of in ducing the landlords to take on themselves fie payment of tithes. All these measures must be brought under the consideration of the House, they will necessarily he so during the present Session of Parliament; but this i■ the measure which I now bring forward with respect to the temporalities of the Church. Sir, I hope and trust this is a plan which will give general satisfaction.—(Cheers). I will not detain the House much longer.—(Hear, hear.) The measure I have proposed provides for not continuing the scandal of persons holding benefices and receiving the revenues of a living where no duty is performed and diminishes to as great an extent as it could possibly produce the number of the Irish Hierarchy. Sir I would also observe here, that it does not lay down any abstract principle. Indeed it was not necessary to do so for any practical purpose. It was not necessary to decide whether Parliament had or had not the right of interfering with church property. As I said satisfied the practical question might arise what ought to be done with the surplus ; but Sir, it was not necessary tha Government should adopt either the one side or the other in the beginning of my speech, all who thought there ought to be an establishment at all, would agree that the Church had the first claim when the claim was It was not necessary fur them to decide whether Parliament had or had net a right to interfere with the property of the Church. The plan I have now submitted to the House is that which his Ma jesty's Ministers feel themselv justified in at presen proposing, and is not meant to preclude Parliament, or indeed throw any difficulty in the way of i+s considering of the future disposal of Church 'property, to other purposes than that of the Church. Parliament may or rosy not take up that subject here after. All we have had in view, on the present occa sion, has been to submit a practical proposition for a practical amendment of the law. I will not detain the House further, but beg at once to move for lea►e to bring in a Bill to alter and amend the law relating to the tem poralities of the Church in Ireland. Mr. O'CONNELL_I will not detain the House many minutes, but I cannot refrain from expressing the great satisfaction and delight which I have this . even i n g experienced.—(Loud and continued cheering!) If I feel it my duty to oppose strongly measures, which, I think, perhaps erroneously, injurious to my country, I am as ready to give all lithe little and insignificant support I am able, torneasures which I think for her welfare. — Cheers. To this plan of the Noble Lord I can see no objection, and in its principle carries the seeds of future amelioration. I would only implore the Noble Lord to believe that there exists ❑o other class iu Ireiand which wishes to be placed in the situation of the Established Church, so that he may put out of his calculations entirely the claims of any such class. If I may speak on behalf of those who concur with sue in religious belief they do not compose that class, and no man would more decidedly oppose such an object, nor ever will, than myself. The Noble Lord stated the true principle on which office should be conferred in Ireland when he stated that merit ought to be the rule by which it should be conferred, and that the Catholic should obtain no more advantage over the Protestant ought over the Catholic. With regard to the Subletting Act of last year, it has done even more good than the (LEFT SPEAKING.) IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COM M ONS, FERMIARY 11. Mr. CHAPMAN presented a petition from Wigley, for the better observance of the Lord's Day. Major BEAUCLERK asked, whether it was the in tention of Government to propose any reduction in the duty on malt. Lord ALTHORP could not in the present state of the session, give any pledge as to the intention of Govern ment on that suhjort. Major BEAUC LERK then gave notice, that he would on the Ist of May, call the attention of the House to the duty now levied on malt, with the view of proposing either its reduction or repeal. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the adjourned de• bate on the sessional orders was further adjourned till Wednesday next. REPORT ON THE ADDRESS. Lord ORMELIE appeared at the bar with the Report on the Address. Mr. LANGDALE begged to call the attention of the House to a subject in which he felt deeply interested, al though he was afraid, in doing so, he might trespass some what on the regular order of the House, by referring to what had occurred in a former debate. He could not, however, in justice to himself or his constituents, who had sent him there to express their opinions, avoid entering his protest against an lion. and Learned Member's (Dr. Lushington's) interpretation of the oath, as he understood it was taken by Roman Catholics. As he was of that per suasion, he felt it a matter of the greatest importance that the House should come to the most perfect understanding of what was the meaning of that oath. This was of the greater urgency, as he had seen from th, public papers the question had arisen more than once. It would be grating, indeed, to the feelings of any indi vidual to be reminded, when stating his opinions upon any subject matter that came before them, that he had taken an oath against it. He was persuaded there was nothing in the character of a Roman Catholic that would justify any Member of that House in insinuating that he did not pay attention to his oath. He was a Catholic, but out of a constituency of a thousand, there was only one Catholic in the borough he bad the honour to represent. It was important, therefore, particularly to him, that he should not be placed in a false position, and that it should not be thought a Catholic could not vote as independently upon all questions as a Pro testant. When he said all questions, he meant questions of property, for, unless Catholics could vote upon the question of the temporalities of the Church, they could not vote upon questions relating to Corporations. If there were any Member of the House who thought that a Catholic was not as free in his con duct in this House as a Protestant, it was his duty to come forward and state the grounds of his opinion. His Majesty's Ministers had advised the King to recom• mend to this House the consideration of the temporalities of the Established Church ; but if Catholics were not competent to take that subject into consideration, neither were his Majesty's Ministers, for when they took office they made a declaration equal in force to the oath taken by Catholic► when they entered this House. (The Hon. Gentleman here read the oaths taken by Catholics, and also the decla ration made by Ministers ou taking office.) As regarded the declaration of refraining from exercising any in fluence to the injury or destruction of the Pro testant Church, they were very nearly alike. He as ked whether he was not justified then in saying that the Catholics in this House were precisely in the same situation with respect to the tem poralities of the Church as his Majesty's Ministers. Yet the Hon. and Learned Member for the Tower Ham lets (Dr. Lushington) had told them the other evening that Catholics had no right, in consequence of the oaths the% had taken, to interfere with the temporalities of the Church. Several How. MEMBERS--.." No, no." Mr. O'CONNELL—I understood so. Mr, LAN GDALE..The }WU. and Learned 'Member for ',', iqt, -•- „ NI:!• -. 0-, ,,, , . „. LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY l2, 1833. have gone, in endeavouring to eradicate these evils, we have not given satisfaction to all ; but that prin ciple has always been based in endeavouring to take away from the occupier of the soil those burdens that hear most upon him. With respect to the Grand Jury presentments my Right Honourable Friend will shortly present a measure for the consideration of the House, and it will be f it it to amender alter it as it may think proper.—(Cheers.) With respect to the Church establishment, the tithes that press upon Ireland, the internal tithes, are not great in numbers, but they press heavily upon Ireland. I admit, Sr, the pressure of taxation upon Ireland, which et pre sent acts most grievously upon one of its principal manu f ictures, namely, soap, which, though not taxed in Ireland, but in England, yet from the mode in which the drawback is paid in England, produces a most unjust pressure on the people of Ireland. With respect to that, Sir, I have a remedial plan to offer to the House. I can assure the House that whatever cin be done, shall be done for Ireland. We have always shewn our inclination to do so and ever will ; but the great cause of the evils of Ireland, Sir, is its want of capital.—(Hear, hear.) That, Sir, can only be remedied by the preservation of peace and goad order, by which means people will be encouraged to lay out their capital in the country.—(Loud cheering.) Now, Sir, the only other point to which I alluded at that time was, the transactions between landlord and tenant. This must be considered as without the range of legislative enactments, but at that time great complaints were made of the interpretation put upon contracts between landlords and tenants by the Courts of Justice. Several witnesses, Sir, who appeared to be acquainted with the state of Ireland, were of that opinion. I now come to the question of the Church Establishment of Ireland, of which it might be said, that, like all other important questions, the longer it was delayed, the more would it he expected that the remedy should be which it would be proposed to have pro vided.—(Hear, hear, bear.) Upon this question many others had arisen, and of these not the least was the exaggerated difference between the amount of the population of Ireland, and that of the Church E,tit blishieent. I confess that I believe I have ex aggerated that difference in my own mind. The first part of the revenues of the Church of Ireland comprises the revenues attached to the bishoprics. lam sure I shall surprise the House, after what they have heard upon this subject, when I state that by the returns we have had of the actual revenues of the Bishops, the net amount of the sees is only 130,000/. a year. The gross amount is 150,000/, but the net amount is only 130,000/. It is certainly true that a very large tract of country belongs to the Bishops of Ireland, hut, Sir, the Bishops have not themselves the beneficial interest in that value. Those, in fact, to whom they lease the I Ind, have five•sixths of the value. The amount of the real value is somewhat about 600,0001., hut obviously the Bishops do not receive more than 100,000/. This, I apprehend, partly accounts for the exaggerated ideas which Gentlemen entertain of the ecclesiastical revenues in Ireland. With respect to the deans and chapters, their whole incomes amount to 23,600/. a year, but the necessary expenditure, before it can be divided, amounts to 21,0001., being little more than a surplus of 2,000/. a-year. With respect to the value of the other benefices in Ireland I am not prepared to give any very accurate statement. The Church com mission has called for returns, but from a number of these no returns have been made. It is, therefore, only from a calculation, founded upon the average of the returns we now have before us, that we can arrive at any proper estimate. The whole of the other benefices amount to 1,401 ; those from which we have received returns amount to 1,149, which leave 378. The whole amount of the revenue will be 580,000/. a year ; but we may take it ac 600,0001., and in that we do not go below the fair calculation. According then to the statement I have wade, the Bishops receive 130,0001. ; and the Deans and Chapte s, not the holder) of other benefices receive 2,0001., and the amount of the other benefices is 600,0001., so that the total revenue of the Church of Ireland, applicable to its support and maintenance, does not exceed 800,000/. I have wished, Sir, to go into this detail, and to press it particularly upon the House, in consequence of the exaggeration that prevails, and which might prevent Gentlemen from coming calmly to the consideration of the subject. Now I appre hend that whatever difference of opinion there may be as to the right of Parliament to interfere with this property, all those who think it has a right to take a part of that property and apply it to the State, as well as those who think Parliament has no such right, all will agree that the first claim upon the property i s from the Church itself, if the Church Establishment is to be maintained at all. If not, those who think so will not agree with me. It will, however, be generally agreed that the revenues of the Church, as at present exis.ing, ought to be applied to the necessary purposes for supporting and giving to the people the benefit of the Church. Now Sir, are these purposes at present provided for as they should tie? Sir, we have heard statements of benefices where there is no duty performed, or where there is no church, and where there is no resident minister; but is it not perfectly well known that in many parts of Ireland where Pro. testants ought to be supplied with the benefits of the establishaneut, that there is a difficulty in its due perform ance, and that while the clergy have large emoluments, many of the working industrious class are very inade quately provided, and are in very distressing circumstances. Theme are nearly 200 livings in Ireland of less than 1001. s year. While this is the ease—where there is a Pro testant congregation, and duties required of the clergyman, you cannot fairly say that the clergy have not a property in the Church. To the purpose of supplying the deficiency there his been a grant made out of the board of first fruits. This hoard is different in England, from what it is in Ireland. In Ireland its first object is the repair of the churches, but it, England and Ireland, in consequence of the lapse of time, what is called the first fruits of livings or benefices, does nut amount to any thing like what they ought to be.— (Hear, hear.) It was a mere pretence, and, in fact, they may be almost said, not to exist. It is, therefore, proposed to abolish the Board of First Fruits, and the system altogether ; and in lieu of that, it has several times been suggested in the House that a new valuation should take place. But the opinion of the law officers of the Crown is that we cannot make a new valuation without an Act of Parliament. We think it best to get rid of the Board of First Fruits, and the first ruits themselves, and in lieu of them to make an annual reduction from the amount of benefices. Those which are under 2001. we do not propose to reduce. From those from 2001. to 5001, we propose to take five per cent. From 5001. to SOU seven per cent. From 8001. to 1,2001. ten per cent. And from all the latter sums fifteen per cent. This we give on account, taking into consideration those that pay no per centage of 42,0001. I should say, that when persons went voluntarily to work on differe:it livings, they ought to be considered as one. For instance, if a person has one of 7001, , and another of 300!., it should be taxed as upon 1,0001., namely at 10 per cent. instead of the two sums of 7 and 5 per cent. In the proposition are included Deans, and Chapters, and Prebendaries. But it is evident that if this ratio should go on and affect the Bishops in the same proportion, they would be taxed unfairly, because the expenses of the Bishops exceed in proportion those of the private clergy, and it would not be fair to commence with the lowest sees with a re duction of 15 per cent., and to increase by the enormous per centage to the lightest annual amount. It is proper therefore to make a difference in the scale. We propose, that from all sees below 4,00 e a year, 5 per cent. be de ducted; all below 6,0001. a year, 7 per cent. ; all below 10,0001. a year 10 per cent., and all above that 15 per cent. I am aware that in making the propositi.n I do, I go at least the whole !ength which justice would justify the in going; but when I consider the nominal amount of first fruits that have hitherto existed, and when I consider the great advantage it must he to the Church to submit to a sacrifice in order that the clergy may secure to themselves the affections of the people, I do feel the strongest hope that we shall not meet with any strong opposition from them upon this point. I will say more, I have reason to hope that we shall not.—(Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, there is another circumstance which, as it appears to rite, is immediately applicable to the measure which we have in contemplation. It was statad the other night by an Hon. Member, (I forget who), he reminded me that, at the time the arpointinent of the present Bishop of Derry took place, he received that appointment subject to a reduction in his income, whenever any general arrangement should take place with respect to the Church. Sir, that was correct. With respect to the revenues of the See of Derry, the I.etitest misapprehension prevails. The riv,i,ue of the Bishop of Derry amounts to 12,1591. a-year. It is pro posed, in consequence of the, grangeoaent we ado at the period to which I have referred to reduce this amount to 8000/.—(Hear,) —of course leaving the Bishop of Derry subj et also tai' the reduction I have before mentioned which upon 8,000/. will he 8001. ; that is to say, in other words, we at once reduce the income of the Bishop of Derry to 7,200/.—(Lou,l and continued cheering.) Now, Sir, I have stated what are the immediate means that will be placed at the disposal of the House, by the plans we are bringing forward. Before Igo into the temporalities of the Church, I will state the object with which the Board will be appointed ; and I beg to say we intend, though it will, as it neces sarily must be, be composed of members of the Church of England—we intend that every means shall be taken to render it as independent as possible. That Board will have placed at its disposal the management and distri bution of the sums I have stated, together with such other sums as may fall in under the proposition I have to make. The House will perceive that the (Pities which will be imposed upon the commissioners in whose hands these funds will be placed,will not be light. I think the House will agree with me,that wherever you have a church establishment, it is the duty of the Legislature to provide the means of religious worship, both as regards the edifices in which it is to be performed, and the expense of performing it.—(Hear, bear.) Now in Ireland great complaints had been made, and I admit they are well founded, of the mode in which this obligation of the state to maletaiw religious edifices has been performed. The rate levied for that purpose in Ireland has been for the most part paid by Catholics, while the management of this expenditure has bean placed under the direction of a Protestant vestry. (Hear, hear.) This is a double grievance; but the Church rate, I think it will be ac knowledged, is quite of a different nature from tithes.— ( Hear, hear.) Tithe is a burden upon land, which the party who buys land knows his estate has been subjected to, and will be subjected to.—(Hear, hear.) In fact, the tithes of an estate are a part of its produce which do not belong to the owner of the rest. A church rate is of a diferent nature. It varies according to the manner in which it is levied and applied. By abuse and mismanagement it may be increased to an immense ex tent, while by frugal management it may be as much dimi nished. It has been, therefore, a particular grievance upon the Roman Catholics, that they should have to contribute to Church rates over which they hid no controul. Having stated this, the House will not be surprised to hear, that it is the determination of Government to abolish Church rates altogether.—(Loud cheers, which continued for some time,)—We estimate the annual amount of Church ratesin Ireland to he between 60 and 70,0001 Now, as far as we can calculate the means which I have stated as to be placed at the disposal of the Commissioners will be only about 60,0001. This is certainly a smaller amount than that now de voted to church repairs, but from all I have heard, I am satisfied this is an expense which may be most materially dimi nished by proper management, and I have not a doubt that this sum will be found sufficient. The Commissioners, I have said before, will have a most laborious duty to perform —for the expenditure which will come under review before them, must occasion an examination of numerous accounts. The other object of this fund, as it accumulates, I shall presently show it will do, will be the augmentation of small livings, and the building of glebe houses where requit 7 ed, under provisions similar to those now in force in England. But, Sir,'" as churches :gay i ;) e built when they are not required, it is intended to be provided that they shall not have the power of commencing the building of new churches unless a certain sum shall have been raised by private individuals, or a certain amount of pew rents have been subscribed for.—(Cheers.) The commis sioners, of course, wiil have liberty to lay before Parlia ment all their proceedings. I think, sir, that the means placed at the disposal of the Commissioners will be sufficient to cover the amount of the present Church cess. But, sir, as there are many other mat ters that are very important to the well•being of the Church of Ireland, it may be said that what I have stated goes but a little way, and I will now state to the House the prospective alterations which are intended to be effected at the death of the present incumbents. At present, Sir, the revenue of the Primate of Ire land, about which considerable exaggerations have gone forth amounts to about 14,4221. Now it is proposed that this should be reduced at the expiration of the pre- sent incumbents to 10,000/. a-year, that all such benefices should be reduced 10 per cent.—(Cheers.) With respect to the Dean and Chapter, whenever they are un connected with the cure of souls the proposition of His Majesty's Government is to abolish them altogether, or to attach them to a cure of souls, so as to make them more efficient, but those Deans and Chapters which can he looked upon in no other light but as sinecures, will be abolished altogether. Another point to which I must also call the attention of the House, and in which there has also been, perhaps, exaggerations, is one most injurious to the Church of Ireland. I mean, Sir, thane livings, in which no duty is or can be performed.—(Hear.) It is proposed, Sir, with respect to those livings, in which no ditty has been performed for the last three years, to give the discretion to the Commissioners to suspend the re-apposntment of such Commissioners to such livings, lam sure, Sir, that the House will at once see the reasoo why I have named these years previous, because if it had been for a shortor period, it is very likely some course would have been pursued, in order to endeavour to show that duty had been performed in the living since the period named. With respect to the number of the Bishops—(Loud cries of " Hear") —as compared with the Church of England population of Ireland, I do not con sider that to be the fair mode of stating the question. Because the duties of those Bishops do not depend solely on the number of souls in their respective diocese ; but must so great a measure depend on the space over which their visitations and other duties bad to be performed. It had been contended that 22 Bishops were more than adequate to these duties. Now, Sir, I admit that twenty-two is a number more than necessary.—(Loud cheers.) It is then for us to examine how many may be reduced, after the decease of the present holders of sees, so that the duties of the Established Church might be performed fully and effici ently ; and, with the best considerations that could be brought to the subject, we think that the number may be fairly reduced by ten bishops—(Loud and continued cheers re-echoed by Mr. O'Connell.)—These bishoprics were; Drumore, Kilmore, ltaphone, Killaloe, Clcofelt, Elphin, Cork, Kildare, Ossory, and Waterford, of these the latter was at present vacant, and would remain so.—(Cheers.) The duties of these Sees would be performed by their being annexed to others—for instance, Kildare to Dublin, arid Waterford to Cashel, and the Archbishopric of Tuain would be reduced to a Bishop's See.— Sir, I have stated to the House that the Church reveuues of Ireland amount at present to 130,000/. and 30,000 will be deducted off those when the plan comes into tzecu tion which we now propose.—(Hear, hear, hear.) I believe 1 have now stated all the sums which will fail under the cognisance t f the Commissioners, but Sir, there is another thing to be considered. Gentlemen who may feel the strongest upon the injustice an d th e want even o f power o f P ar li amen t to interfere wi t h t h e revenues o f th e Ch urc h, w ill ag r ee with this, that if by any Act of the Legislature a new uilue is given to any property of the Church, the pro duce of that new value does not belong to the Church, because it is an acquisition without which any act of the Legislature, and whatever belongs to that new value may he appropriated immediately to the use of the State.—(Hear, hear, and cheers. ) It is well known that the Bishops have no right to grant longer leases than for twenty-one years. In practice, I believe, those leases are almost annually renewed, and a fine, together with the rent, may be said to form the ein come of th e Bi s h o p. As I understand it, the value of a Bishop's l ea s e , i n I re l an d, is twelve and a half years' pur opossession pr e leases may persons ) r, s oo are run during pur chase. Th e tenan t s are un d er this disadvantage, that, though in the pow er o f t h e Bi s h o ps, and has been done, that a y r li pt f ie e i ty whole againstwbi eh they mi o fhistheir h e t i e r n alnvay e t e s si and an and thereby have beenungin Bishop h i be altogeth er w i t h ou t r e medy.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They i are also placed in this situation, that if the deprive s . renewed en ewed every year, still it is his o p land s much approved they are liable to an increased line, thereby themselves losing the benefit of the improve men,. Sir, it is proposed not in the least to diminish the incomes of the Bishops in this way, but to enable any tenant who thinks it right to demand, upon certain terms which I will state immediately, that he shall have a perpetuity in the land which he now rents of the Bishop, at a fixed corn rent.—(Hear, hear.) Now, upon inquiry, we find that upon those terms the value of such a lease, —a perpetu a l l ease at a fixed corn rent would be twenty years purchase instead of twelve and a half.—(Hear.) but he must pay to acquire this privilege 7d per cent. It is proposed that those of the tenents of the Bishop, who chose to claim it, that their tenure Ovoid be made per. •eb the Tower, had certsiuly Jachiffithat touching the temporalities of the Church, and destroying the Church, was the same thing. Now what was the destruc tion of the Church? Ministers and their friends would be loath to say that a Reform of the Church went to its destruction, and the Right Hon. Member for Tarn worth and his friends would, perhaps, be inclined to , tay, that a very slight interference with the property of the Church went to its destruction.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think there was any distinction to to drawn between what the Hon. and Learned Member had said, with respect to the destruction of the temporality of the Church and the destruction in part. If he were to be told that he was to go into the discussion of this question, following his own opinion, he could not but re fuesober that he had taken an oath. It would he greatly to the satisfaction of the Catholic Members in that House, and he thought to every Member in the /lenge, to have this question set at rest. An HON. Mamaen said that, as long es the °nth wee taken, he certainly d;fl eonsider the Catholic Members of the House differently situated to other Members quoad the Church. Au Hox. IVlEmssn. (we understood one of the represen t.tives for St. Albans) declared, that if he thought he, as a Catholic Member, was differently situated to any others in the House, be would resign his seat at once. He consi ler hin self quite as competent to enter upon the dis cussion of the affairs of the Church as any Member in the House.--(Cheers.) Mr. HUME considered it to be of some consequence, that the House should be satisfied upon the question, whether the doctrine laid down by the Hon. and Learned Member, was that which Ministers invaded to support or not. He had been asked, this very day, whether it was the intention of his M.jesty's Ministers to support such a doctrine. It had occasioned considerable anxiety, and it certainly was very desirable that some of the Lew Officers of the Crown, or others, should be preps e.i to state what the intention of Ministers was on this pan , . Lord ALTHORP said the Hon. Gentleman alluded to had no more right to state the opinion he had, except as his own, any more than the Hon. Gentleman had to state what was the opinion of that House. Mr. HUME said he bad nut asked the Noble Lord— is allusion was to the Law Officers of the Crown. An HON. MEMBER hoped that the Hon. Member for Middlesex did not mean to give such An immense power into the hands of the Law Officers of the 'roan. Whenever the subject was agitated, the only constitutional way would be to take the sense of the House upon it. Mr. O'CONNELL would not allow any min to dictate to him what his belief ought to he, nor whst con struction should be put upon an oath which he had taken. If he had taken an oath which, in the opinion of the House, bad a different construction to what he put upon it, at once he would declare that he had not taken any oath at all. The cath administered was to be taken in the sense of the person who administered it, but still the construction that persons put upon it would do away with the sense of the words contained in the oath itself. Having suffered for 20 years because he could not conscientiously take the oath t ea imposed upon Members by the House, be could not sit tamely and hear any one say that be ever held that oath lightly in his esteem. As be understood the oath as to the Established Church, it was this, that as the law at present stood, he was bound to abide by it ; but as a legislator, he certainly considered himself as free as any man in that House to give his opinion on any sub ject that was brought before it. If he were not right in this opinion let him be expelled from the House, but do nut taunt him with giving or putting a different construc tion upon an oath which lie had solemnly taken, and which he felt would stick to him through eternity. Au HoN. MEMBER. here rose and ' , imbed to a hirehs ,he House. Mr. O'CONNELL said he bad not done yet—be wished to proceed—he was about to oppose the bringing up of the report on the address. It was painful to him to detain the House upon this subject, which had for such a length of t time occupied their attention. But it was his duty—a duty which he performed most reluctantly. He believed that none -of his Honour able Friends frem o lretand, who had already taken part in the debate, intended low to address the ,House upon this subject, unless personally attacked. He was contend ing. for constitutional freedom, and he felt that the acts contemplated by Government were s' opposed to that freedom, that if he could only delay them fur a single day, he was doing that for his country (of which he was most proud)—it was an act for which he would lay down his life if necessary.—(Hear, he,r, hear.) Upon deliberation be still stizmatiz A it as a most brutal address, and upon the most mature deliberation he could not otherwise call it than one hewing a most sanguinary character. He had been taunted with ingratitude to his Majesty's Ministers, but he denied that any was due from him. He did not take the statement of the transactions of 1806 andlBo7 fr orn hie Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Cobbett) but he would only say that many of the present I.lli uisters had come into power on former occasions, when Catholic emancipation had been completely thrown over . , oard. Did his conduct during the struggle for Reform show that be had had the slightest recollection of ingratitude? He did not forget benefits which he had received, but he forgot altogether the injuries that had been done to Ireland, and he stood by Ministers, not only during the struggle for corm, but during that memorable week which they would all recollect. Would the Reform Bill have been read a second time but for Ireland? And as the public were not then Aroused, as the Political Unions were not then completely orriraniz-el, could it be doubted that the Ministry could have remained in office but for the support they had received from Irish Members? Whst occurred on that occasion ? Toe majority of the English and Scotch Members voted Against it, and the majority of Irish Members in its favour decided the question. Yet what return—what gratitude :lid the Ministers evince? They actually adopted, on the reassembling of Parliament, the anti-Irish plan of Ge neral Gascoigne. He threw back the taunt of ingratitude on the English Reformers. The Irish Members had joined in the victory. They hid, in fact, gained it. England's was the triumph, but Ireland's was to be the coercion, and they were to witness, in short, the introduction of a Rob espierrian system at the bands of the very men whore continuance in office they had secured.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") The flag of England had never waved over a battle-field, where, among the hands and hearts that held it up, Irishmen were not to be found. Yet theirs was to be restriction, theirs was to be coercion, and the law was to be taken from them.--(Hear, bear.) It bad been announced by the Right Honourable Secretary—by one of those men who had made Ireland what it was, that Government oust be feared before it could be loved. Wriat ! was aver such a principle uttered before by a British Minister ,vithin the wall, of the British Parliament? It had been uttered by Robespierre ; it had been uttered by men who had surrounded every tree of liberty with a thousand heads—(Loud cries of "Hear")—but had ever so atrocious a principle as that been promulgated by a British Minister —(Hear.) If he was surrounded by English Reformers, and if by some chance English Reformers were not unrepresented in that House, he would ask whether they would favour the principle of Robespierre, of being feated before they could be loved ; or should not the Government adopt measure, of conciliation and jus tice before they employed the machinery of terror? What sort of a Kiug's speech had been presented to the first Reformed Parliament? There might be a pretty little commentary made on the affairs of Bel. •sium and Holland—a note talked about as having Massed between Don Miguel and Don Pedro. A few sentences composed upon the charters of the East India Company and the Bank of England, but why had not Ministers condescended to notice the distresses of the people of England?—(Hear, hear.) Why had they not noticed the oppressive load of taxation under which they groaned—(Hear, hear, bear)—and then, why had they not carried their view across the channel, and aken a view of seven millions of people, degraded and placed in a situation of the deepest dirtreas—(Hear, hear) —a people whom it was not for him to praise, but wham he could not cease to love?—(Hear.) Ought not Ministers to love, instead of to endeavour to inthoidate them, and make themselves execrated by that naiion ? Did they .nean to say that they would make themselves feared in Ireland?—(Hear, hear.) He would tell them to their face they never would.—(Cheers.) This was not lingauge which ought to have been adopted to wards that gallant and fearless nation. They should hair:- used other language. Even if they had wanted coercion, Ministers ought not to have come down on the very fits. -lay of the meeting of a Reformed Parliament with threaten mug language—they should have allowed at any rate fuu days to pass—they ought to have taken the opportnnity* setting themselves right with the people of England before they had resorted to such daring language in re •pect to unhappy Ireland had received much lip servie from the Hon. Gentleman who spoke from the other sad f r,ea tl r i n e e li d l i T i s e e but there Member berwa s wa, nothing more a dissatisfied tha w t o t h he ! h t it . thatan species of political hypocrisy, that talked of love and regard or Ireland, while it made a compliment 0 the people of that distressed and unhappy country. x of st g eb r d i a i t nit:lnt Ireland. liberty mia na (dle. Would any man in England permit his M ajesty's Mini_d t. rs to talk of allowing their liberty on the ground of otuplitnen tt . 1 1 ? e--- -i n ( I C r agitationilea e n r d s a )w p Ah t i e cg d hr i a e mistake l nt o o r we agricultural war, and i' ere a political war. Nothing (19%1d by ram different ban