The Sun. — London, England, 1831-10-11 00:00:00

1 • Ge°trill' t io It s ras r utio , .ot?gbita hr c ~• • ulittee upou a measure so revolut.• ,),, Oh, 110, theyonaty . have more important matters to att , nd to. Instead u t e into the country.—(Hear, and laughter.) ,' •r country stioying borough% they must go down to tne L i an They must d go . seats to destroy pheasants and partridges. who have They have their tenant s to attend to—to some e ckward in not paid up their rents, or who have been h —( ghter.) their tithes ---and of whom some have signed petitions for Reform or have voted for a Reform candidate.—(Hear, tie and laughter.) All these weighty cares must occupy 1 " Most potent, grave, and Reverend Signiors, r, Our very noble and approved good masters." nothing SO ---, (Cheers and laughter.) The Reform Bill is no_t. __ y important, because the people do not care for j 51 street, Lords have been in Road -street, and St. Jamey's who a k n e d ep P s a al l s - hruo4-11; and one of them knows an old woman of „ p thereabouts, and she knows the opinions_ e ~, Per or her own class, and she says that the peopld not care about ReforM Much laughter.) Therefore, it if there he any manifestation• of feeling on the subjectuPS.-- is all artificial. It bag been raised by demigog _ _, (Hears.) Revolut• I age has been used.—(llea!,_ hear Most disloyal inn language Ina been addressed to put ie he mes,ctings.--(tleYar, hear.) ut The passions of t v h e e h p ern eo e p nt el a l v e : :jeen a Ppeal e I to, and not their reason.— Hon ( Members ring from the Op •' I •hes ) - di s_ position tent - been those is 1, , n e l ask them, therefore, where have l l ° al -""tiugs? Who have addressed this revolutionary In place,what andanguage to the people ?—(Hear hear.) 11 W , h°4-1, during- 11 th agitation of the last election,the Was alien lan a e 80 0 , guage used ?—( Hear, aspersions, b and Noble Persons who throw out those t h a a v t th e People understand their own intere h s a t t s. the They wis_ d o - 2 tu b' you that all they desired was, t the King •tt of thia H and the wisdom of aheuid be House country; of the that theyexercised for the benefit British Consti tuti Were devotedly attached the borough 'll ; but that the • oul a d lmit that the noraioatie ey• nevir w —(Cheers.) It is tru e 4 Was a part of that Cons i . etution. people were not that they also told you that if the. repre now allowed to have the choosing of their 0wn.,8 impos- Ztatives, you would soon be convinced that . it i s The Per, to Withhold from them longer their just rig h '• ve ever I eee le of this country are still as loyal as theyll wealthy,ai Masse' bra his they are still as brave. They are . at much the are . • But you will not g t , ~ Y industrious. nor wea t I h fro luerive protection from their bravery, just lu t " ei e i d • hold out against their and re n Ustry, if y ou n ow in the name of expedien asonableelahns.--(Hear.) Why, then, for Hon. Gehtie eY---.which used to have some charms for n 0 ....... (ends opposite--will you not satisfy themimn eenwan ciparrq I retnember, Sir, that when Craotnetli opposite tid°!_vvas the question, a Right Hon. B their poli tical fee t gentlemen gentlemen opposite to sacrificexow, Sir, I lvish t e , ; ri ga on the altar of expediency. . tioo is expe ditor, :_cninav, when Parliamentary emancipa refusal ~ Why Via 07" Y Will they exasperate the people by ' soon re lioriu,',Y attero ~ pt to retain that which they must be ac es 414 ' %11l • • which would now of - Pted a , y wait until that as a measure jia t i ee , 0 an aet of grace will be extorted o,___m_ a loo sell' long withheld ?- -(Cheers.) In the namerera 01_ Eng rain land , if 'ei I will ask You, as I would ask the e I a eert ai Your forms allowed me, do you and they prefermain :luat44l a n and ignominious defeat, in the vain attempt to secure. , 4 unjust and totterinba• power, rather than toemnmo - so and their posterity, by a peaceful ac spirit of t h ' -'. the privilege and power which the (rue has been „41?nstitution allows them. (Hear, hear.) It for hi s taiti another place by a Noble Lord, whom I honour attr.- ha t 'nls and bia serviceshis country, that he t a les th, , . to the people to th e r _ v aemand for Refor m on the part of ~.. and othe:vpolutionary movements in France and Bel w e a t s m it that telettlied :ifeetsseof,Euirop.e. But let inletsa?sk,Nwvilear was it but It tyleas't detertneivnatnitoinnilsifatuhdetuemople to resist oPPres'n'ioenof th e ,l'e:o obstinate perseverance in oppression by some and bio efornents of Europe that has caused all the a .. the last "dahed with which the Continent has dun l ng will, therel.:,elaf been afflicted. (He ar , hear, hear.) ber for ' Ta ro , e ' r e ' ask the Bight Hon. Baronet, the . Mem (an _ iio 44 : 11 th, with all his Parliamentary experience—(and for d talerus entertains more respect than I entertainleis to his Y, in mores gratitude for his great to support him as•':,lo sorsie of which I had the happinessill ask him, do e , b ule advocate of religious liberty)—l w ' e thi °k th i_ : • distant when the anarchy Which h at the time is far t come upon ourseiveaa overspread the Continent may no ri _ us d dis conte,tt?"--(11ar, hear.) And if it should n our safety ? If tin t 0",,a::11 disunited, will he guarantee the m easure tint "Int and on those who rejected . t must rest the r_ ool.d have satisfied the whole nation have in.,. Plo„ed‘sPan'll'ilitY(llear hear.) The people you their evYou to. e i Pam that measure, and they promis ed Peers, it is true, ha-j'autog gratitude in return . ' But the I fora cone're'tPrea'ed themselves afraid that the gratitude_ ) Un t„ "4ted PeoPle i revolution. (Hear, bear. siitiehate h a , been heir rsersetivmate of a nation's gratitude, ive 4i t „se._it,,(,)oght to be their highest happiness to B r u e t ue they rej ered "!? be their highest honour to deserve. amised gratitudet!'e nation's prayer, and holding its p • r tment. `••••(ch,„_rt scorn, they added insult to the disappom As to . the tiltiloar`' s s and crie s of " 0 der order.") Tlae , "ecess of Reform, "Order, have ' no apprehensions. k Pirit which per %el ii of Reform and improvement der, arui t t theft times is too stron for you to keep un too , ation:l° , and for you to g extinguish, and tr batiqn, its progress, to be checked by sneersthe e for llorougbh 1 .1 the sophisrns of the Hon. Member lace in Which 0 I'dge; and unless England be the only P t ' lie voic e to be ard , 41.1 .. e oi the peopl e and of reason is not fee Peopl e r., e"ectual Reform i the representation ot l Went ""oot lon h 11 Gentleman then o, bri t i , g e delayed. The Hon. Govern ••ent o f fe ; Say that as to the idea of the present ~ tuit p "ng thei • • • r totally of the r resignation, it was a mater to re 'online 'lttestion. W any man insane enough , , kini " th at, at as a patriotic a n . MIT Blinul., . a mornent like the present, affairs Did tie reamuahieu abandon the helm of pub ic ut advisers of erie,,„fown w „ .. " .1 , ,ar., imagine that . the pre7 ? No ; the enn 'o s . e es of fre'eLlumbeitllriayha confiding r p e e d op t l hat a different unt'led'vtul'id he PtirsueS t an r d e' tl t ia a t s n st :i means would be left bentatioil", secure to the and free re The people a full, fair, Inlblie 0„.1.4,..,*ie Conmaons House of Parliament. inept andh", rest ,I..sureti that the friends of the Govern ssi.s,; or f o e i t i the People felt that this was no time . to he d. . 4rB of tl ' , n r ,,' and he was sure that the responsible rase terance nai,e.rown w ould, , y 0 their firmness and pe o _ „„e C oun t , the good cause secure the eternal gratitude I -- slip o t -.Y• For ti- ' solved to oece r t the thus oese reasons, then, he was r t e heng ht it DI t ' '' 4l Y th to n of his Noble Friend, for he , he ~ us gratify desires Air. people, the reasonable wishes and geievou '451 ho d • to the Id not fall in dehher,', err or of I?: _the House would of faction for the :r. gtely express dtoaklng the clamour le cora im J J,.., pillio n of t e . pe p . • v his most Lo r d . and hen'' tONE was resolved ta gi e rty Noble r, , Support to the motion of the t hat t h 'Pllty convinced ere traated the people would feel that 4teverntrientwd not the slightest reason to apprehend that l et li ps ,• ° "ld in the 1 . I degree swerve from L, , le tv.iie,. , . sig Rest they would b 4o flu eoeed " their duty Pointed out; that resigning b S ' 4 % bad "o.the queation of resigning o; not . but th e ,. ' erations of nothing punctilious; ceremon by in the,: would stand by a illonalYela s , ,ho reposed confidence 'etVedl ,and net desert were de- I o _, e Y eSteetned. a people by whom theyf England ° l ° e k o d t° th at Ho The faet was ' the peopleo and oistr 41:4 by the "se arid to the King's Government,a(,ra... ati on ~, Government he baeaat the present I i of au_ , for the hear kople would neither recognise nor _ peepiey other Govern state of the den ) , and the Coo, jiti Ment. The resent . esuch a 1 s to conaio" fr oni th e n o : 0 . 1 public Opinion pwLarnd anxious the d !rttinn, for it lust e t 8 most atteutii e whole of 44,„ toates, bO. , ~ affirmed throughout the - People "' 'fa that Hous e and in anotl er place, that ,ully a of England tver ham, but 'll es , approved cif their e not only Government. ial k • ta ms td present form of n 4 • rt argument that that form of Govern . T hey wit h all its defects , well. f ' ' lo lk b arid a nomalies, worked . or ti : egan to feel, licth :-.9, sub•ects and as men, that asse,:et;ll.'t worked extremely ill. it patrons might rest ~•Ns i o b e et ryas a Oar; of Government which co.:lsf never 0u0„,,b ."ecessfully recommended to men who had been at '.'s. its agene , . the L01_11,1341_1, L ir , Y recommend so ill. The Crown and ° h.ly, ti acted nobly by the people. They had acted 4t 0 Yet sacel•• .„, ne e a " I ...• firmly, yet wisely--in stepping forward port the . occupying a powition which joined in their sup 111r, cwh°le nation. t 1,15 Prewe,,4°kEß said if the result of such a discussion as gladly l earn endangered the fate of the country, be should It'"east,"lr3 • Y it was brought forward at that critical t/!l:ieh ~_, ocit unfortunately happpned that anythinogf. laoeour4yo,ttiz.iur !ri :hat House endang•aed .it_h,e Perace (Ist introdue_ , ,t,ttc e. pers?ns were answerable . to thatwe;e ~, gerou, , _Ju toe. discussion. If the question... _ as perfecti.y.was it If that day ? He certainly et "wri w )'• wi lling to adnait that the Ministers of the he t ere not in any degree responsible fur the present t he rtiO4 but, souls what might whether responsible for pea_ of or not, they were at° ,least responsible for the tb e r r 81 the country ---for t a e th were responsible to th en, , °vereign and the nation, l ey we t circumstances, th e 9! professed 1 _.. . n presen .ie uttlity of th hend Irrnselt utterly unabl e to compe th y i Sectionu,ti epresent motion ; he could not conceive . Viti • for additional ingredients being into a c heer,) „... 2 for already boiling over—(Loud W„,r,4 hadilcl b e ;caldronrememberd that the motion was so What u,_at nothing could be discovered in it beyond he eoofe: 'leen agreed to in various votes of that House; "ed, theD, that he wria at a lose to see how such a motion would tranquillize the public mind. It had been contended that the whole people of England had most un equivocally declared themselves for Reform. So far as he could observe, or his means of observation went, he would venture to say that nothing could be more equivoc d than was the expression of public sentiment upon that subject. He did most firmly believe—and he thought he might so far deviate from the course he had prescribed to himself__ he did firmly believe that the Hon. Member for Preston correctly stated the influence of the Reform Bill upon the public mind, when he said that none were for it excepting those to whom it gave a vote. The Noble Lord, in a speech of great apparent moderation, stated that he had seen the Bill sent to the other House with a majority o: 109—a majority which those comprising it considered to have been so triumphant that nothing could shake it— that nothing could prevent the Bill being almost imme diately passed into a law. Now, however, the Noble Lord got nothin by his motion, owing, in some degree to the way in which it was worded. It must be ob vious to the House that no man of honour, that no man of sense or right feeling, who had opposed the Bile could concur in the present motion. It did, he must be allowed to say, appear to him very clear that the best and most advantageous mode of obtaining the object which the Noble Lord had in view would have beet, not to have brought the present motion, but to have sug gested to the Noble Lord on the Treasury Bench to have risen in his place, and have made such a statement as might appear best calculated to satisfy the House and the country. The Noble Lord might have referred to the his tory of the Bill—he might, it such were the fact, have announced his intention and that of his colleagues to per severe in urging forward the Bill to its completion ; but to have made that declaration would have effected all that the mover of the present motion could have reasonably desired, and so have avoided all the excited feeling and all the angry discussion, which in truth was unavoidable, when topics of that nature were brought forward in times like the present. He was as anxious as any Hon. Mem ber could be to avoid anything like anger in the course of the discussion in which they were engaged ; but really, in the present state of the country and of the House, it was very difficult to prevent an appearance of heat and irrita tion. The question before them was one of grave and serious importance, which, on the one hand, should not be treated with levity, neither, on the other, should it be discussed with anything approaching to personal animosity. If the motion then be dangerous—he did not mean to say that the Noble Member for Devonshire intended to bring about dangerous consequences—but if, as he was prepared to contend, the motion of the Noble Lord had a dangerous tendency, what should he say to the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Caine? He told the House that the present was a mo ment of danger ; and what was the mode which he adopted for the purpose of protecting the country from the effects of that danger ? Were his allusions to the laws likely is render them more venerable or better obeyed ? Quite the contrary—he made no allusion to the laws, but when it was one of depreciation, lie seemed utterly to disregard that sound doctrine of Montesquieu, that those who brought multitudes together were guilty of the hazard of creating a riot; for the mere assemblage of multitudes was itself an evil. The Hon. and Learned Member for Caine, putting on a legal character, took advantage of it to use every term the most reviling and degrading that could be applied to British law, and thus did he labour to bring into contempt the whole system of our jurispru dence, proceeding to contend that laws possessed no force unless supported by public opinion. Shakspeare, who foresaw every thing, and whose knowledge of human na ture was so profound and various, says, " A plague of opinion ! a mail may wear it on both sides, like a leather jerkin." So convenient was public opinion, that he had no doubt the Hon. and Learned Member would justify the breaking open of shops and the seizing of arms as ma nifestations of public opinion. He had heard the Hon. Member say that he knew but two modes of sustaining the laws—namely, public opinion and the sword ; but he (Mr. C.) had always thought that the use of laws was to supersede the sword; that nothing could be more sound than the legal maxim-6‘ inter acme silent !eyes." He admitted that public opinion might have much to do with the making of laws, but nothing whatever with the execution. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman had then goue on to tell the House how Asso ciations and Unions might be formed so as to defeat the law ; and by way of illustrating his subject, had entered into an account of the Irish Catholic Association. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman's talents and powers of oratory, no man could gainsay ; but when he (Mr. Croker) considered the doctrines that were inculcated in it, he could cell it nothing more than splendid mischief.— (Chem.) Ile could assure the House that he felt as much as any man the dangers of insurrection ; he like wise believed in the tranquillity of the country, and that the people were peaceable, and disposed to submit to the law, without the intervention of the sword, or any new laws emanating from the Government, but still he could not disguise from himself that an unlucky spark might set the popular feeling in a blaze. If so unfortunate an occur • rence should take place, lie at least would not have to re. proach himself with having said one word calculated to produce that disastrous effect ; neither would his Hon. Friends—(Hear, hear)--for the debate had been brought on much against their inclination; and not only the de bate, but likewise the division had been forced upon them. --(Cheers.) For his own part he would willingly make any sacrifice to save the country from the slightest riot, be cause he knew that the smallest tendency that way might give rise to the moat serious consequences—(Hear)—and he trusted that nothing would escape from them calculated to make the measure more difficult than it already was, or to endanger the tranquillity of the country for which the Government was in the first degree responsible.—(Cheers.) Mr. SANDFORD felt himself bound to support the motion before the House; and he was sure that neither he nor those that concurred with him, would shrink from sharing with the Noble Lord (Ebrington) in the dancer upon which the Right Hon. Gentlemen who had just sat down had dealt so largely.—(Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL—The Right Hon. Gentleman has complained that we have forced a division upon him and his friends. Why, Sir, that is our very intention— ( Cheers)—our object (and most wisely so) is to force them to a division.—(Cheers.) Sir, we want to show the Right Hon. Gentleinan that this House bad been packed by the unanimous voice of the people, and in order to do that we must have forced divisions till the measure is carried. Why does the Right Hon. Gentleman complain ? It is his own friends-=it is the decision of the House of Lords that has forced this division to-night ; and that decision being weak and foolish (I will not call it wicked), it is the business of the strength and wisdom of the House of Commons to show that the rights of the people cannot be long forestalled, and that there is such a teajority in this House as can support those Ministers who are alone able to produce that Reform which the people require.—(Cheers.) A little while ago it was " No Reform !" but now it is impossible to find one to utter such a cry; and could he be found, lie would be pointed at as a monster or a raree show, as he passed through the streets : the only question, therefore, now is, the quantity of Reform ; but the question of quantity is everything. And a corollary to that question is—are we to have no confidence in the Ministers ?—(Hear, hear.) In answer to which, I think that we want nothing else to prove it, but the fact that they brought in this Bill— (Hear, hear)—nay, not only brought it in, but actually , carried it through this House, after a most teasing pro gress, and a most vexatious opposition.—(Cheers.) Ido not knots , what there has been said on the other side to make us transfer our confidence from the present Ministry to the Ex-Ministry. I must confess that I lost by my ab sence time lion. and Learned Member's (Sir C. Wetherell's) speech ; but I hardly know whether I ought to regret it —(Laughter)—more especially as 1 had the pleasure of ' hearing him speak seventy-five times on the Bill itself— (Laughter and cheers)—unless, indeed, he found some new terms and phrases—(A laugh) —new, I mean, even for him ; for, to my poor apprehension, he had exhausted all cernawn vocabularies long ago.—(Laughter and cheers.) eta tihough ; heard not that Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech, i beam the sppech of another Hon. Gentleman —(11• r Fang)—and perhaps she douse will think th at I am showing my sense a in saying that I am quite satisfied with that specimen. The Hon : Gentleman could not be con tent without showing his ialeforical learning. Anti whet is it that he has told the House?—Thet Charl es t h e First ? and Louis the Sixteenth , lost their heads th roug h concession, and that Geo r g e the 'failed had carri e d every thing by holding? Indeed ! Your Toiehes were alwaysways digiously learned ; but he thoug ht all their erudition they could hardly maintain the position of the lion. Gen tleman.—( Hear, 'near.) D id not every body know t h at the real fact was, that neither ioharlee nor Louis had yielded in time_(Loud cries of hear, hear)—and th at so far from George the Third carrying every thing, si lt . truth wee, that with the American colonies—the only case in which the ouestion between concession and hold. ing out really arose—he lost every thing by adopting the latter course, instead of the former.—(Chet former.—(Cheers.) But supposing th e H on. G ent l eman lead been right in his his torical deductions, they did not apply in the present case, for the question now was not between the King and the people, b ut so l e l y w i th a sor did oligarchy standing between the Th rone an d t h e peop l e , usurping the rights of the one and the privileges of the other.—(Loud cheer ing.) Sir. we look at the other House, and we see twenty-seven harouglimongering Peers clutching:the rights of the people within their greedy and unholy grasp._ w e see them turning a deaf car to the just demands of the nation for the sakc of continuing their system of spo liation and robbery—we see this ; and now who shall tell me that the time is not come for the people of England, of Scotland, and of Ireland to speak their minds, and to cry aloud in all men's hearing for the restitution of that of which they have too long been deprived ?—(Much cheer ing.) I grant that it is too much to ask the Tories to read history. They look upon it as an imposition when their time is so much more profitably emploved.—(A laugh.) But, surely, it is a little extraordinary that - they will not understand their own history. Let them look hack for only a few years, and what will they sue ? They will see that this House three times passed the Catholic Emancipation Bill, and that three times it was rejected by the Lords.—(Hear, hear.) But did they after all suc ceed ?....-(Loud cheers.) Did they put down the people of Ireland? Did they put an end to the just demands of that nation 9 No ; they gave Ireland years of strife— they gave birth to the Catholic Association—and it ended, how? 3y the very House of Lords yielding to the pres. sure of justice and of public opinion.—(Hear, hear.) Do the Tories want the same story over again ? or do they think that the people of England are not as firm as the people of Ireland ? Do they think that the people of Semland will submit ? Or the people of Ireland ? I tell the Tories, in the name of the people of Ireland, that they are just as determined as the people of Scotland, and the people of Scotland just as determined as the people of England.—(Cheers.) But, Sir, it has been said that this decision of the House of Lords will give another Ad ministration to the country. Sir, I should like to see them marching into this House.—(A loud laugh.) I should like to know what would be their first motion.— (Still more laughter.) Would it he a bit by bit Reform. —(Cheers and laughter.) I cannot bring myself, had as they are, to believe that they would sacrifice their prin ciples once more, and turn round to a real measure of Re- form. But let us even suppose that they succeeded in obtaining a majority in this House, what would the people of England say ? Had not the people already said that that Administration should not continue ?--(Hear.) They themselves had proclaimed that they were scarcely safe— that they could not go into the city with their lives un guarded.—( Cheers, and " oh ! oh !") What ! Did Gentle men forget the wicked and audacious attempts that it was said would be made in the city on the Prime Mi nister between his declaration against Reform and his most wise and praiseworthy resignation ? And would that renewed Ministry meet with more favour in Ire land, when they should return to that country with bad feelings in their hearts towards it for the execration that had been justly heaped upon them, and when they would grasp with delight at the vengeance that was placed within their reach in retort for the honest ex pression of indignation which their cold-blooded, unfeeling conduct towards that country had produced ? No, Sir; when the orange flag will be unfurled in Ireland, and the black flag in Scotland, and the manufacturing districts will be shaking with rage—he is a bold man, and, I think, a bad man, who can contemplate such conse quences as these, and not make every effort in his power to prevent them, by securing the remaining chance, which is—the making this House the organ of the public sen timent.—(Loud cheers.) But it has been said what is the good of this motion ? I will tell them the good ! It is to prevent the pnhlic desponding—it is to make hope take the place of despair—(Loud cheers)—it is to throw oil over the stormy waves of contention ; that, Sir, is the object—(fiear, hear)—and that object will be attained, if this House speak emphatically, and if the Ministers follow up that speaking with equal emphasis.—(Cheers.) The people have sent us here—the people are gazing on us here—and we cannot, we must not shrink from our posts. —(Cheers.) I must say that I think that the Right lion. Gentleman's (Mr. Croker's) powers failed him when he attacked the powerful speech of my Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Macaulay.)—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had better have let it alone, for he has not said one word—and it was out of his power to say one word—to lessen the splendid effect of that ad dress ; splendid, whether as regards the beauty of its lana. guage or the soundness of its arguments. The Right Hon. Gentleman has tried to make something in the shape of a reply to what my Hon. and Learned Friend said on the subject of public opinion ; but instead of taking the broad basis on which my Hon. and Learned Friend rested his argument, he confined his answer to some particular por tion of public opinion, and so contrived ingeniously to change the whole complexion of the case ; in this manner the Right Hon. Gentleman cited the instance of machine breaking. Why, lie must very well know that the feeling in favour of machine-breaking is confined to a very small portion of the public ; while the argument of my Hon. and Learned Friend applied to unanimous public opinion. (Hear, hear.) Another topic that has been dwelt upon is, that there has been a reaction in the public feeling. Now I know that there are radicals who try to trade in this way.—(Hear, from Mr. Hunt, followed by immense laugh ter from all sides of the House.) I beg pardon of the Hon. Member for Preston ; but I was alluding to the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman who has quoted him in his absence, and who, indeed, seems to rely not a little on his opinion with respect to the people of England.—(A laugh, and continued cheers.) How has the Member for Pres ton been acting ? Has he been to the meeting at Alaryle bone to-day of 40,000 persons ?—(Hear, hear, from Mr. Bunt.) But why do I waste my time in speculating on what he may have been doing?—(Another loud hear, hear, from Mr. Hunt, with cheers from the rest of the House.) I will say nothing more of him, only congratu lating both parties on the holy alliance they have formed. —(Great cheering.) I find some consolation in the re jection of this Bill, because I know, that if it is postponed much longer, the people will not he content with so mode rate a measure; but will raise their voices—if not for uni versal suffrage—at least for that salutary measure, the vote by ballot. But this may not be all. They may begin to ask themselves why voting by proxy should be allowed ? Why there should be hereditary legislation, leaving the idiot or the madman to succeed to the legislative rank of his father ? Yes, Sir, those who lately had every respect for the House of Lords, as they now have for the Sovereign and the House of Commons—those whose cry has been " the Constitution, the whole Constitution, and nothing but the Constitution," will speedily be forced from their former feeling, and be compelled to turn with distrust from those that make use of legislation for the purposes of oppression—(Hear, hear)—and who are they that have raised these topics in the minds of the people.—(Cheers from the :Ministerial side, answered by vehement cheering from the Opposition.) Who ate they that have prevented the people being at peace, and now who is to answer for the events of the next fortnight— of the next month ? (Hear, hear.) Oh, Sir, it was an unwise vote ; and that portion of sanctity which belongs to it I rejoice does not at least cling to my heart. But the deed is done, the vote is passed ; and what are we to do for the people ? We trust rally round the administration ; we must call on them to exert their energies in behalf of the nation.— I (Loud and continued cheers.) Let them remember Mr. Pitt—in the first five years of his administration he had created one hundred Peers ; and who shall blame the pre sent Ministry for doing as much, when it is expected at their hands by the country?—(Cheers.) If there is a majority of 41 against the Bill, why not send 82 to the House of Lords, and so have 41 the other way—(Cheers) —and then the Peerage will he safe.—(A laugh from the Opposition.) What ! is it so good a thing that the Tories will not share it with any other?—(Cheers.) I am not surprised at it, as long as they can contrive to keep the property of the boroughs within their clutch. Why, I am told that only the other day 80,000. were given for Qatton. Sir, I will not longer trespass on the House but to say, that I shall give this motion my mo=t zealous support, because I think that this House is hound to stand by the Ministers--(Loud cheering)—and because I hope that the decision of the Hottse will be received as that of men determined to do justice to the country, and demanding the speedy settlement of the question, as the best means of tranquilizing the feelings of the nation. On the Hon. and Learned Member taking his seat, Sir R. PEEL and Colonel EVANS rose together, and the House called loudly for the former; hut the latter having caught the Speaker's eye, he went on, but amidst so much confusion, that it was scarcely possible to under stand what he said. We believe it was as follows: Colonel EVANS—No Government could exist in this country if the measure failed; and if any Government should exist which attempted to govern by the sword, be would be one of the nest to draw the sword to resist it.-- (Cheers--order, order, and confusion.) Sir C. WETHERELL rose, but was met by loud cries of " spoke." He rose, he said, to order. The Gallant Colonel had fallen into a new end unparliamentary mode of expression, and he moved that the words he had just uttered should he taken down.—(Cheers from all sides, and calls of " Chair," and " Order.") After a short time, the SPEAKER called on Colonel Evans to explan. Colonel EVANS was not surprised that the Hon. and Learned Member, who had on so many occasions distin guished himself by the extraordinary terms he used, should find fault with his plain language.—(Order, Chair, and explain.) What he said was this: That if a Govern ment of the sword should be established, under the present circumstance, he, for one, should be ready to raise a eword to resist.—( Hear, hear, and cheers ) St. ROBERT PEEL could but regret that the Hon. and Gallant Mcmber should think it necessary to put a hypothetical case of establishing a Government of the sword.—(Hear, bear.) Such hypothetical assumptions of Governments established of the sword was like the pour ing of oil, of which the Learned Member had just pp iken— Cheers)--it was pouring the oil of the sword on the stormy waves of our present discontent—(Cheers)—when lion. Members said that they wished that the angry passions might be soothed, and that the excited feelings of the people might be calmed. He had meant to take no other part in this discussion than was necessary to vindicate his own consistency in the vote he should give, and he should not have departed from that determination had not the speeches lately made formed such a signal contrast to the speech of the Noble Lord who opened the debate and the lion. Member who seconded the motion. The Noble Lord meant by proposing his resolution to pledge the majm ity who had passed the Bill to adhere to its principles. The Noble Lord naturally expected that the Members who voted in that majority would vote for his resolution ; and naturally perceived that those who voted against the Bill, were precluded by that from acceding to his resolution. When the Learned Gentleman who had just spoken, said nothing had been uttered on the principle of the resolution--did he expect—did the House expect, after the long discussion of what the Hon. and Learned Gentleman called disgusting and weary details of the Bill—did the Hon. and Learned Member expect that on that occasion they were to renew the whole debate on the question of Parliamentary Re form ? Those who would now vote for the resolution had already proved their approbation of the principle of Re form ; and he must consider it quite unnecessary that those should again agitate the subject who had expressed their opinions by voting against the second reading of the Bill. The object should rather be to place the subject at rest ; and he did not think the agitation was likely to be calmed by again renewing the discussion. It would he more meet, under the present circumstances, to use the language of wise moderation. The great majority of the House had no occasion to prove, by the present lotion, their attachment to Reform; and they would best support the Constitution, and best secure their own view of being very moderate, and calming the excited feelings of the people on this important subject by voting against the motion. Nothing certainly which had happened should make him not adhere to that moderation he recommended. He could not forget that the last time he had addressed the House, he had expressed his satisfaction that no personal differences had taken place during the debate, and the Noble Lord (Althorp's) reply had expressed a hope that all ani mosity would be buried. Ile knew not what necessity there was now to revive animosity.—(Hear, hear.) It was not justified by the occasion on either side, either in defending the Administration or in assigning the reasons in detail for withholding confidence from the Government. In stating some of the grounds for withholding that con fidence, he should avoid all acrimonious discussion. If the majority thought it advisable to agree to a resolution to support the Bill, in order to place it upon the records of the House, that was not the time for him to enter into verbal criticism of the resolution, for which he certainly did not mean to vote. lie, however. doubted, under all the circumstances, if it were wise in the Noble Lord to call on the majority to agree to such a resolution. He thought the divisions on the Reform Bill a sufficient proof of the determination of the House to support the Bill, without entering into any such resolu tion. That resolution called upon the House to affirm t o propositions, not necessarily connected. They were called upon to declare in favour of the Reform Bill, and to declare, at the same time, that his Majesty's Government was deserving of their confidence. lie thought it unwise to call on the House to assent to the two propositions in one resolution, and it would be more complimentary to his Majesty's Government, as well as more customary, to give expression to the confidence of the House in a distinct re solution. Allow him to say to the Hon. Gentleman oppo site, that he bad heard his speech with great pleasure, and was only prevented from giving it greater praise by the compliment the Hon Meml er had thought proper to pay to him ; but that speech was distinguished by a tone of moderation which the majority would do well to adopt. The lion. Gentleman thou it would be most unfortu nate if his Majesty had nT7ther alternative to pass the Bill but to create a number of Peers. He said that every other measure ought to he adopted in preference to that, and that such an alternative would be only had recourse to if all other means' failed ; he was anxious that the House should not despair, and thought that there was yet time to avoid the difficulty by meeting the Peers half way. —(Hear, hear.) But if he entertained any hope of that, was his course wise? Why, the resolution he proposed cut off all hope for ever of moving one step toward reconciliation. The Honourable Gentleman had a strange policy, for while he recommends the House to go half way, he recommends it steadily to adhere to the Bill.— (Cheers.) lie hoped to meet the other House half-way, and he counselled the House of Commons not to move one step.—(Cheers.) The tone of the Hon. Gentleman's speech was that of moderation, but he supported a resolu tion which cut off all hopes of a compromise.—(No, no.) Was it not evi 'ent that there was a contradiction between th e Hon. Gentleman's speech and the resolution he sup ported ? Hun. Members must see that the resolution was a compulsory proposition. Another Hon. Gentleman had said that the provisions of the Bill might have been modi fied, had it not been for the obstinacy of the Opposition.-- e a o whichtl, the (Hear.) Th e G ove rnment certainly could not accept th a t defen ce . A ccor di ng to that, it was the troublesom e Op position n but t nat he d t H h o e us ß e ill was from eal b l e e i d ng on ma to de eopmere fe to impli e d that it had been improved by their obsti nacy. It was urged, as one ground for the resolu tion,pvoretem that the Bill had been matured by discussions the most anxious and laborious. And the fault he had to find with the resolution was, that it implied that this Bill was necessary to be adhered to when an equally efficient measure might be introduced, which this re solution would preclude them from accepting. Why pledg e the House to the Bill as it stood, and why exclude themselves from accepting another measure equivalent to that ? The resolution pledged the House to all the pro vis ons of the Bill—it pledged the House to the 10/, clause. One of the many provisions, which was much insisted upon, and which was much injected to, was the uniform right of voting given to the 10/. householders. Now he had heard it stated, he could not say where, or by whom, but he had heard it stated by a person o f bight consideration, that the arguments on the uniform right of voting had gone far to shake his mind, and lie should be prepared to listen to extensive modifications. That was au important part of the Bill, and most important if not restricted. The framers of the Bill had invested the right of voting, and perhaps some plan might be and restrict it to a hi g h er rent i n t h e a a c i c o e %s pt e a r b r le at t e s , hich would give that ri g ht t o sma ll towns at larger towns. That right might be modified ; but if the House agreed to the resolution, they would pledge themselves against any modification of the provisions of the Bill. They might pledge themselves, if they pleased, to adhere to the principle of the Bill, but by pledgin g themselves to adhere to the provisions, they would prevent all improvement. On these grounds lie objected to the resolution. He doubted the policy of the majority who had supported the Bill pledging itself and the House to adopt the Bill. He had heard the Hon. and Learned Gentleman complain of the weariness of dis cussions, while the resolution said that the Bill had been [natured by discussions the most anxious and laborious. The Noble Lord's resolution vindicated that pertinacious opposition, and on these grounds called on the House, The resolution embraced two suljecta— a thst of Iteform, and confidence in the Government. The House was ca ll e d upon to express its confidence in the integrity of the Ministers, their perseverance, and their ability in in troducing the Reform Bill, and in conducting it through t h e House. lie did not wish by any means to lower the character, and weaken the power of the exenutive Govern ment ; and in enpressieg a difference of opinion from the resolution, he begged to be understood as not implying any doubt of the personal i ntegr i ty or perseverance of the Mi out te doubtingess p res san t si l e d i , r iub p t er o s f o t i l i l a e l ir integrity, i h idebates;stei ; n b e u i t t h N e r r t t l h i t o l their perseverance, or their skill in debate, be night still be far from placing confidence is thorn as a Government. He could trot, for example, ext, nd his approbation to the manner i n which they had introduced the Reform Bill, nor the time of introdueing it, both of which were, in his opinion, in consistent with the interest of the conntny. The resolu tion praised their ce.a:luct on these points, and against t h at part of it he could give a conscientious vote. There were several other parts of their conduct which ho did not a pprove of. Their repeal of the Coal Duties had his ap probation ; but their foroign policy, which he would not enter ',at°, was anything but favourable to the country ; b ut without stating all his objections to their p o li c y, i t was sufficient for him to say that the Government was not entitled to his confidence on account of the manner in wh i c h they had introduced and supported the Reform Bill. The lion. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Macaulay) said, that refusing to acknowledge the principles of this Bill to a cr ea t e: dornz,stic danger th an this n before b ee n exposed to. The Hon. wouldout country expose had e u ye s r and Learned Gentleman bad referred to this state of do mestic danger, and to the public opinion on the subject, 1 reason why the Home should place confidence in his Majesty's Government, as a means of continuing an d repressing this agitation.—(Hear.) But when he I e i,ked at event to which the Bill went, the time it was introduced, and the means by which its temporary success was entured—(Hcar, hear)—he was doubtful how much of the damage had been caused by the Government itself. He lamented some of the expressions, and the tone ob isffitactueltif.B:ltizoieLtriceadseantigmert.danlVehry? adopted by the Hon ei . imig a a n n d L se e e a k r , n e l :1 y G i e t n a e n tn g a s n t , ra a n n g d e hie e ii a t ) : i e o a n nii s d o o er n xi .. t fzG h g i e . e present nratlt d Why did he seek to augment dangerous passions on danger ous topics.—(Cheers.) He must say, tliat the eloquence of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman not unfrequently got the better of his judgment ; and now and then, when there arras some semblance of argument in his declamation, whet) it was examined, it was found to niak-e rather against than for his side of the 'notion. Then the Hon. Gentleman ha stated that the House cf Commons was generally, in relatio❑ to the House of Lords, in the right, and the Bills it had sent up to the Lords, though at first refused, were afterwards assented to; but if the House 01 Commons had this general means of persuading or compelling the House of Lords to adopt its views, what be- came of that part of the Hon. Member's argument which went to state, that the House of Commons was dependent on the House of Lords ? Did not that prove that the two Houses were independent, co-ordinate powers, and that the opinion of the House of Commons generally prevailed ?—(Hear.) He was sorry that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in talking of danger, had again introduced menaces into his speech—(Hear, hear)__ that he thought it right to menace the House of Lords. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman's whole argument turned upon the principle of intolerance--I am right, and you are wrong. That was the whole of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's assumption.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He thought, however, that he was supported by pity. sical power, and then he said, " You must give way." (Cheers.) Could he not think that lie was addressing high and honourable men, who were capable of being in fluenced by reason and argument; and would it not have been more wise to expect to influence the decision of the other House by reasoning than by threats—that if they did not pass the Bill they should be proscribed and exiled like the nobility of France?—(Cheers.) The Hon. anti Learned Gentleman says, that it is important to produce tranquillity ; and therefore he voted for the resolution of the Noble Lord ; but, if he wished for tranquillity, would he call upon the House to enter into a pledge which excited hopes, perhaps encouraged discon- tent, and kept alive agitation ? The Hon. Member in dulged in prophecies ; and he never heard prophecies more likely to realise themselves, than those of the Hon. and Learned Member. Instead of calling on the people to demand the Bill, why not enjoin them to rest satisfied and contented? Why encourage discontent and dissatis faction ? Why tell the people how they might resist the lave—(Cheers)—as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman did? The Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) had alluded to the state of the metropolis, when an infamous attack had been made upon the lite of the Prime Minister, and that Prime Minister the Duke of Wellington ; an act of the basest ingratitude and the greatest wick edness. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had al luded to the intended attack on the Duke of Wel lington.—(Mr. Mac tulay intimated that he had not alluded to any such thing.)—No, it was the Hon. Member for Kerry he was alluding to; but when that lion. Mem ber had spoken of the base attack to be made on the life of ' the Duke of Wellington, not indeed by the middle classes, but by the lowest classes, the Hon. and Learned Member tor Caine had explained how they might avoid the penal ties of the law, and avoid paying the taxes.—(Hear.) Was not that exciting the passions of the people ? (Hear, hear.) The Hun. and Learned Gentleman de plored the excesses of the people and their readiness to resist the law, and said it was hardly necessary to make a speech directing them how to show their hostility. He would also say a few words to the other Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. Sheil), who had imitated the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, but had fallen below him. He would not follow the Hun. and Learned Gentleman, being warned by his example that the ambition to make a great attempt does not insure success.—(Cheers.) The sentences of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman bore the marks of much labour, and were a credit to his industry. He had given the House several old stories, and among others that of the Sybil, and on her he thought the House had alriaily drawn often enough during these debates; and he hoped the ru'es of the House concerning females would in future be extended to her, and she would not be suffered again to be present at the debates.—(A laugh.) There was another female mentioned by Burke of whom the Hon. and Learned Member reminded him. Mr. Burke said that some persons who imitated the contortions of the Pythian Goddess thought they had caught her inspiration. —(Cheers and laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Gen tleman thought the whole essence of Toryism might be condensed into one short word, and that short word was East Retford.—(A laugh.) He wished his Hon. Friend, the Member for Hertford, were present, for be could tell the Hon. and Learned Member that he proposed extending the franchise of East Retford to Bassetlaw, and it was ra ther singular that the Hun. and Learned Member should have selected the act of a good old Whig to designate the hoped which h e e x had ste. n d ut s p a a i r d ty m o ie f t t rt h ro e rd To t r o i" ad . d — t ( o A tb l e au e g x h c . i ) tem il en e t histh e u s . uhje i sh tt• o c t a o l whi ch m. t e h o e o r d e e s r ol s t u o t o i o r d n th efer rd, atheta Majesty's which it Go vernment o. vernment were to retain office; that they still enjoyed the confidence of their Sovereign, and still hoped to carry the Bill. There was one thing be thought certain—that they were the truest friends to their country who proclaimed, not that a majority had a fixed determination to support the Bill, but aoletermination to support the law; and that all language which tended to influence the passions of the people—all measures which tended to excite their hopes, would only end in greater disappointment to all. They ought not to refer to the possibility—they ought not to teach the people that it was easy to refuse the payment of taxes—they ought not to exaggerate the amount of public meetings, and encourage others. It was easy enough to say that 150,000 men assembled here, and 40,000 there, but before such assertions were made individuals ought to be correct as to the facts, for such statements led men to meet in other places ; and such meetings do not take place, though for a legal object, without exciting appre hensions in the well-disposed, and without exposing the public peace to danger. Great masses of men could not meet without exciting apprehension. He wished that Hon. Members would warn the people of the con sequences of disobeying the law, particularly of re fusing to pay the taxes. The whole community was deeply interested in preserving obedience to the law. It was not for the advantage of the few, but fur the benefit of us all ; and those mad proceedings now talked of would paralyse industry, suspend commerce, and inflict the most grievous injury on the lowest classes. Again he would say, that the people should be informed that the privileges of the P eers , which were n ow so lightly brought into discussion, were not conferred on the Peers for the gratification of their personal vanity—they were not so much personal paivia leges as privileges conferred for the benefit a the whole community, and which bad on eeyerzl occasions been use ful to the people themselves. The independence of the Peers was ti guarantee and security to the liberties of the people, and tranquillity would be best preserved by re• specting their rights. He did not like to trust hitnself oat this subject of excitement; but when he considered the influence of the Government he was persuaded that if the same means were employed to excite an opinion against the Peerage wli: i ch had been employed on the subject of Reform, it would not be difficult to produce a very stronz dislike to it. In conclusion, the Right Hon. Qt,swilernati declared that alt who hail voted for the Relom 3hl would probably vote for time resolution, while all who had op -ed p.o. the Bill were hound in consiatency, to vote Against the resolution.—(]Near, hear.) Lord ALTHORP said I feel all the difficulties of my situation, and therefore waited till the other Members had delivered their opinions, wishing to learn the f;aaling and opinions of the House before I stated key own views. 1 have now heard the opinions of gentlemen, and I will take the opportunity of eul.ag a few words. From the opinions I have heard it is stated that the conduct of tbg ov, - ,rnment has not been such as to deserve the conildence of the House. Toe Right Hon. Bv:o.iii.l has adverted to the financial measures, and to 'hr foreign, policy, and to that still snore inir.4tant subject —the present state caf the publie feeling, for which he holds his Majesty'a Govern ment responsible. As to our financial mea-nres, I will not whatnow l e n p t t e o r into 00se an o ay that dotal; e.tai subject r e s d pe i d c n them. nut meta metaett with t Certainly hapi t p h r e e i t e na s iu t ro, know o t h w e a o t u se ; y:o b zn u t L l l 9l haven,ofe consequences. It pi s r a to t e i satisfaction nevi-. n n ewes,learei said . attended with beneficial that the reiniskico of the tax on coals had nut been pro any the hoo wn I it he retnoter districts prices have fallen. When with re e a hav g deare:ese:i measures rc t o: .e lb f s e so citt w.of of s i . t ia o i a sff ‘ a l : ‘d le p. " : s c em o r i n tn ,, . l,i ,pt o a: o o r' vi t n l e l te 'n g a k c f t tio ; soi that e lmo af a ta n y s i t c:e; l tt. m x ep igg n a o d p r t ein : ve:ratnrettitireipesen, experience cri: nh t et: c o h i e; .oct e i ; tn g hh t m oi s ' .3 0i. bn tef a c : 1 r oit l: w r f 1; faeturing districts it has had a great and beneficial effe he hich I di a l e n. cur the thers ut ire on out foi - eign policy I will also abstain from entering into details it have preserved peace.—(Hear, hear.) One of the first pledges that we gave, on entering upon office, was that we would endeavour to do so. We have redeemed that pledge, and there is no danger whatever that thg Foot lesace will le' broken. A s t o t h e ot h er sod moat inipor taut point to which the Right Hon. Baronet alluded, namely, the present state of the public feeling, I maintain that for that state the present Government are not ac countable. When we came into office, we found a strong • and universal desire existing for Parliamentary Reform. That desire bad been increasing for many years. The ' Right Hon. Baronet and his friends were obliged to ac_ knowledge its existence ; and so strongly had it operated • on the Right Hen. Baronet's mind, that he allowed it hid induced him on one occasion (before the introduction of the late Bill) to abstain from voting iu that House, on the question of Reform. Such was the state of feeling when we came into office, and when my Noble Friend at the head of Administration gave that pledge on the sullect of Reform which was consistent with all the principles of his public life. It has been insinu a t e d his tjue lost the crseottaiYodeGnri':_e n t ask, wh o of y b of e y r r ti t a ni i , m ' e : t o e t ea n i u . n lls c e a r , tuadhsseeeGyd of olftlulat Commons. d t o e m x ° nt thateffiloncnttehsr.eovrt t oidewi that knew the composition and character of the late House of Commons would, in his senses, have proposed to them an extended measure of Reform in consequence of our having lost their confidence ? Does the Hon. and Gal lant Member recollect the sort of impression which the measure made on its introduction into the late House ? An impression so strong, that I am convinced if the. House had divided on the first night, the Bill would have lscen thrown out by an immense majority. It was only after consideration, and after the sense of the country had declared itself in favour of the Bill, that we obtained the small majority that we did obtain. It was not we who excited the feeling in favour of Reform ; but, that feeling existing, it would have been very dangerous to have brought in a delusive measure which would have disape pointed the people. Undoubtedly, having passed the mea sure for the Reform of the representation by a great ma jority in this House, and having sent it to the other House of Parliament, we did expect that at least it would have been taken into consideration. In that expectation we have been . disappointed. The Right Hon. Baronet says that this motion is unnecessary. Ido not mean to saw that my Noble Friend did not previously tell me of his in tention to propose such a motion ; but the step was taken entirely without our suggestion. The object of the mo tion—whether right or wrong it is not for me to say-- is, that it the House thinks that the removal of the present Ministers from his Majesty's Councils would hive a disas trous effect on public affairs, it was desirous that the 1 - 1011110 should express a strong confidence in those Ministers. It may be necessary that I should state frankly and freely on the subject. For myself, I declare that unless I felt a rea sonable hope that a measure as efficient as that recently passed in this House might be secured by our continuance in office, I would not continue in offic e an hour.— (Hear, hear, heir.) Whenever that hope ceases, I will cease to hold office.—(Hear, bear.) Both my colleagues and myself owe too much to our Sovereign —we are too deeply indebted for the kindness, the candour, the rank sincerity which we have uniformly experienced frotn him to desert the service of the King while his Ma jesty thinks our s•rvices valuable and we ourselyea t , ink we can advantageously serve his Majesty.—(Hear, hear, hear.) But we can no longer serve his Majesty advanta eeously if we sacrifice our character. Whatever may be the consequence of our retirement, it is our duty not to sa crifice our character. We owe also a great deal to the people. We hare been supported by the pecisie in the must handsome manner. 'The people have a right to de mand that we should not desert then, while our stay in of fice can conduce to their benefit. Sir, I will further state, that I will not be a party to the proposal of any measure less efficient than that lately passed in this House,—(Hear„ hear, hear.) Ido not mean to say, that after the discussioss and consideration which the measure underwent, some mo dification may not be made in it which, without dimi nishing its efficiency, may render it more periect. But what I mean to say is, that I will he no party to any measure Lich Ido not conscientiously believe will give the people a full, free, and fair representation in Parliament, and secure all the objects which we hoped to effect for them by the late Bill. It is impossibl e th at his Majesty's present Government can nuke any other proposition to the House. I admit that the opponents of the Bill.have had a great triumph ; although in the pre-. sent debate, with the exception of one, lion. Gentle:oats,. no great triumph has been expreesed. But lam conident that the measure is only postponed. lam satisfied that. if the people of England will be firm anti determined, but at the same time peaceable and quiet, there can he no doubt of their ultimate and even speedy succeas. There is (roe, and only one, chance of failure anti disappointment. I mean any occurrence that may lead the people to break out into acts of victim*, or into any unconstitutional con duct, if I have any influence with the people, if they put any trust in my sincerity, I implore them, for the sake of the great cause in which we are engaged, to be patient and peaceable, and to d o nothing illegal and uncon stitutional.—(Hear, hear.) 1 would say to them "Be as firm, be as determined, be as perseverinK as you please; but never break through legal and constitutional restraints, never place yourselves in a situatio n in which the law must be put in operation against you. who ever are Ministers. "—(Hear, hear, hear.) By temper ance, steadiness, and perseverauce the cause of Par liamentary Reform must ultimately triumph.—(Cheara.) Whether my Colleagues and myeelf are destined to have the honour of success upon that question as Minis ters, or whether, as in the Catholic question, after hav ing fought the battle, others are to enjoy the glory of the victory, I know not ; but as long as 1 have any voice in the direction of public affairs, I will use my utmost exera dons is the cause of Parltetneutary Reform._(Load cries t‘f hear, hear.) , Mr. HUNT Tote to speak; but the noise which pre vailed in the douse was so great that we could hear only ocesaional sentences of the Hon. Gentleman's speech. lie expressed himself very much delighted at hearing the Noble Chancellor of the ,xcltequer recommending peace and obedience to the laws, the more especially as the public Press was inciting the people to acts of violence. He was persuaded, however, thet the Noble Lord need not he alarmed. Notwithstanding the instigations of the Press, in his opinion the people would not commit any acts of violence. When the House of Lords threw out the Bill the people had been recommended to preserve peace. There Was no reason for such at recommendation, Where had there been any violence? Where had any multitudes of the people assetnbled ? Had lion. Members seen the the people in great numbers in, their way to the House? When the Catholic question was under discussion, the assetublage of the people in the neighbourhood of the House was twenty to one as compared with the assemblage of that day; when the Corn Bill was under discussion, a hundred to one. The newspapers of that morning had said that all the shops were to be doled, and that papers with the words " no taxes," were to be ; posted ou the shutters. He had put his horse to, and had driven through Westminster, and the City, and over London bridge, and so to Elackfriars-road, and in the whole of that distance he had not observed a single act of violence, and had seen only one shop with a single shutter LT. on which was exhibited thee word " Reform" 41, tnourning.—(A laugh.) He '.sad been asked why he was not in the Regent's Park that morning. His answer was, that he had no bnainesa there, and that he had nut been invited.—(,A ,laugh..) He bad, however, been at a meeting that night elsewhere, and, being asked, had taken the chair. The mezting consisted of between two and 1 three thMhsan4 persons. He th4ught lie could not do better thus submit to that meeting the proposition which tha Noble Lord had submitted to the 'Luse; and the re. stilt was, that when Coe question was put, seven hands were held up in favour of the proposition am! above 2,0 t against it.,-_-_Vt. laugh.) He had told the meeting that he had ti confidence in his Majesty's Ministers. And why i'v'. , .cause they came in on vle4eir of economy, retrench ment, and Reform, wh„th pledges they had violated. The kind of Reform which they proposed he had never advo cated in his life; and he was sure it would give no satisfac tion i,-. - ..the people at large,—(Much noise and coughing.) Mr. CROKER hoped the House would listen to the Hon. Member for Preston, as ha seldom troubled them at any great iength.—(A laugh.) Mr. HUNT proceeded,,,-Hie Majesty's Ministers had come in on a pledge of economy and retrenchment. How had they redeemed it ? When they were in opposition they opposed the grant of 16,000/. for the propagation of the Gospel, and proposed that it alkauld be reduced to 5.,0D0., and the next year totally withdrawn. When they came into power, they obtained the whole 16,0001. Who were so loud as the present Ministers when in op position against ate extravagance of Windsor Castle ? And yet they who complained so Ludly of the expenee of the itiimishing of Windsor castle, obtained an additional grant of 10,0001. i'w• furnishin g two rooms. They had increased the army and the navy—they lied called out the yeomanry and the militia. Was tha t economy? When th e C omm i ttee on the Civil Li CommittCommitteeappointed by th e present Mi n i sters —brought st- in a their report, recommending recommendation was rejected, Was that rereachmeut r'' to the Queer Tney tben proposed an annuity of 100,0001.. c in. . . i . intstra in the event of the King's death. If a Tory A 1 what a clamour would tion had made such a propn.itiu" , „ there was so muck have been raised against th ._(Hereeato hear the Hen. coughing that we were unable .. Gentle man for several minutes.) If the noise continued he. would wove an adjournmeat. The present Ministers Imes a reduction of 12,000!., tha t,