The Sun. — London, England, 1833-07-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, JULY 5. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a pet; tion from St. Jtmes's, Clerkenwell, praying that all theatres might he placed tinder the control of the Lord Chamberlain. The Duke of CLEVELAND presented a petition from Bath for the introduction of poor laws into Ireland. Lord TEMPLEMORE (we b-lieve) presented a peti- tion from the inhabitants of Carberry, complaining that the Marquis of Downshire was the owner of the lay tithes of the parish, and had received them to the great opprei sion of the petitioners, and without their receiving any benefit. They prayed that the Tithe Composition Act might he amended. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE said that it was rat!ler hard that such a petition should have been presented against him, and that it was quite unfounded. Lord ELLENBOROUGH sail that the petition was irregular in every respect, and ought to be withdrawn. It- WiS clear that it was got up for private and malignant motives against his Noble Friend. Lord TENIPLENIORE, who stated that he knew nothing of the petitioners, then withdrew the petition. THE THELLUSON WILL. Lord LYNDHURST, pursuant to the notice he gave last night, moved that the standing order, requiring peti tions for private Acts to be referred to the Judges, be dispensed with. Lord WYNFORD opposed the motion on the ground that no reason had been stated why the standing order should he Uispensed with. If it were a bad standing order it should he repealed, but it would be a bad precedent to dispense with it metely for the asking. Lord ELDON opposed the motion as unprecedented. The only case he recollected in which the standing order had been dispensed with, was in a case of the Alarquis of Hastings, in which both Scotch and English estates were concerned, and in which, to save reference to the judges of beth countries, the petition was referred to him, as knowing something both of Scotch and English law, to report upon. The Eatl of SHAFTESBURY said that the only in stance of dispensing with the standing order, was one in which property in Sergeant's Inn was con cerned, and the Judges being interested in that property. the retition was referred to him (Lord Shaftes• bury). He thought it would be a dangerous precedent to dispense with the standing order. The LORD CHANCELLOR supported the motion as consistent with sub , tantial justice. He contended that the will of the testator would be more completely carried into eff- et by the House agreeing to the motion of his Noble and Learned Friend, at the same time that he was perfictly hware that there were no complaints from any of the officets of the Court of Chaneery against things as t'tey now stood. It was well known that the Mast rin whose effice the cause was; derive d not less than from seven to eight hundre d pounds a year from the proceedings therein ; and; though there were not wanting those, and Actuaries too, who had calculated that the accumula.ions might amount to eighty or ninety millions, and though ere were those who seemed to fear that the existence of such a property in the hands of one individual might en danger rise safety of the Constitution, yet such were the retarding powers of the Court of Chancery, as was well known to himself and to hie,,immediate predecessor, and still better known to his Noble and Learned Friend now sitting at the bottom of the Woolsack—such, he said, were the retarding powers of that Court, that there did not at present remain the slightest chance of any contingency such as that which had been anticipated. Lord WYNFORD said that he bad confined his taker vatiois to the suspension of the standing orders. The Earl of MANSFIELD opposed the suspension of the standing orders. It was his opinion that in the case of a Bill like that they should rather enforce the standing brder, with peculiar strictness than relax them. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he should be glad to aff ail the relief which it was the object of the Bill to effect, but it would he only with the utmost reluctance that I e could bring himself to consent to a suspension of the :tanding orders. If it were necessary to get rid of them its such a case as that, he suggested that the resolution by which they were so suspended ought to declare the peculiar circumstances under which the House was thus induced to depart from its usual practice; and so he thought much objection might be obviated. . Lord LYNDHURST said it had been contended that the Court of Chancery ought not, in such a case as the present, to be complained of, and that nothing ought to he objected to in the whole of those proceedings, b,cause the charges made were perfectly regular. Now it was exactly on that account that he objected to them, and sought to put an end to them. The expen , ee, without interest, were expected to amount to 250,0001., and if all contingencies were t-ken into account they could not be much under 500,0001. It had been supposed that the suspension of the standing orders was very unusuo' ; i.e would just mention that they had been suspended in the case of Soane's Museum, and he had that morning found no fewer than fifteen cases in which such a course had been adopted. A case like that now under the considera tion of their Lot dships had never occurred before, and there existed a statute which would prevent it ever occur• ring again; it now therefore stood completely by itself, and could form no precedent; he should therefore divide the House. The Duke of WELLINGTON considered that their Lordships were bound to do all that they consistently could for the relief of a family whose property was this swallowed up by the proceedings of the Court of Chancery. Had it been practicable to have brought forward a mea sure of that nature at an earlier period of the session, they might not have the present discussion ; but it Wil9 irn • possible for the parties, as he understood, to obtain the necessary signatures to enable them to apply fur the relief now sought. He hoped the House would not put off to another year an act of justice greatly needed. • The Earl of HARROWBY remarked, that had the question been brought forward at an earlier period of the session, the ordinary forms might have been observed, and he was not disposed, on account merely of the lapse of time, to set a new precedent, especially as those already referred to had little analogy to the present case. Earl GREY adverted to the painful situation in which he was placed ; he had been much struck ley the state ment of his Learned Friend yesterday, and he felt a sin cere desire to set aside an unjust and cruel disposition of property ; but when he was asked to suspend the standing orders, he felt strongly the objections to that course. The merits of the case had nothing to do with this question, which was, whether the standing orders should be dis pensed with without special and sufficient circumstances ? If no such special and sufficient circumstances existed, as the guardians of the rights and privileges of the people, the House was hound to maintain its orders, which were adopted for the purpose of securing those privileges. The regular course was, for all the parties to subscribe a peti tion ; that might have been done some months ago, or it might even be done now, and he could not, therefore, get over the difficulty of the standing order without something like a direliction of duty. He saw no reason why a petition, if it were now ready, might not be pre sented, and he recommended the Noble Lord to withdraw his presant motion, with a view to the presenting of such a petition. Lord LYNDHURST hail reason to believe that he should not be able to present a petition signed by all the persons who, according to the standing order, ought to subscribe it. He was in possession of a letter front one of the trustees, stating his readiness to put i.is name to such a petition : but he doubted much whether others would 'oilow his example. The Duke of HAMILTON was of opinion that the standing orders ought, excepting under very peculiar cir cumstances, to be held sacred ; any attempts to eet rid of them would rend to debilitate the th cisiens of their Lordships. At the same Cale, lie was anxious to concede every facility to the p trties. The Marquis of SALISBURY said, that although the whole family was not formally before the flotrae by peti tion, there was no doubt that they were desirous that the standing order should be suspended. He should give his vote in order to accomplish that object. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE was most ready to give all possible relief to the family, which had unjustly suffered tinder the administration of the law. At the some time, as the standing orders were made for the protection of property, he was reluctant to a'oandon them, unless it could he shown that injustice would be done by adhering to them. He understood that there might be rood rea sons why the trustees did not concur in a petition, but if a petition were presented from the adults of the family, the H ouse might possibly dispense with the signature, of the trustees. That point, might be worth th e con Si.l erat i on o f t h e N o bl e Lord, but of course it must depend upon the nature of the information under which he acted. Viscount MELBOURNE did not feel disputed to suss peod the standing order witle ut a strong case of necessity being shown ; but he thought that no stronger case, no more especial ground could be pointed out, than that which had been laid yesterday by the Noble, anf Learned Lord. For a lung period this case bad been a scandal to society, and I e could not help hoping that the floese would not allow a mere form to obstruct the course of sobstantiel justice. Tne Dales ofI' , UCKINGHAM called up., it Lord ships to reflect upon the danger of establiahit.6 , sew Lee rodent for the suspension of an important standing order. The House was unanimous in the opinion, that, if pus sible, relief should be given ; and the most unobjectionable course of proceeding seemed to be, to appoint a Committee, to consider whether there was sufficient reason for the I leprture from the standing order. The Earl of RIPON recommended that the parties in terested should present a petition, even if it were not signed by the trustees ; then the question would arise, whether the obstinacy of those trustees should stand in the way of an act of real jtlFrice. Unless such a petition were hid before the House, he could not vote for the suspension of the standing order. . . The Marquis of LONDONDERRY observed that the question was, the family versus the Court of Chancery. lie did not far the establishment of a new precedent, a . Le did not think the case could ever occur again. Lord LYNDHURST suggested that the debate should he adjourned until a future day, in order that measure, might be taken for the presentation of a petition. He feared that he should not be able to renew the subject until Thursday next. The further debate was therefore adjourned till Thursday. EAST INDIA AFFAIRS. The order of the day, and the resolutions sent down from the House of Commons, relating to the I ffairs of India, having been read, The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose for the purpose of directing the attention of Noble Lords to them, with a view to the determination of the question whether they would or would not concur in them. Looking at all the circumstances, and at all the knowledge and experience acquired of that part of the world, directed too by their improved acquaintance with the best interests of commerce, their Lordships were called on by these resolutions, to adopt greater changes than had hitherto been made in the administration of East India affairs. To those changes be was now about to call their attention. The first was, that the trade with China should be entirely open; the second, that the Company should no longer continue that trade as a Company, although they were to be invited to retain the Government of that part of the East, in the name and on beh ilf of the Government of this country. He should begin his observations with that which related to China. It was one of the most extraordinary features attending the history of the East Indian dominion that so large a branch of commerce as one involving the interests of 300.000,000 of people (st least such he was informed was the opinion of those who had the best opportunity of knowing that country), and that so large a popula tion in that pert of the universe, should he a mere depen dency in the bands of one exclusive Company. That trade had grown and flourished under the superintendence of the Company. It was now nearly one century and a half since those extensive regions had been discovered to grow that article which was the chief article of our trade with them. It was about that time, in the time of Charles 11., that Mr. Pepys, then Secretary to the Admiralty, mixed hie cup of China grain of which he gave so lively an account in his memoirs. That was the earliest intro duction of that of which now thirty millions of pounds were imported into this country, which was now the cheap luxury, and cheaper he hoped it would soon be, of the humblest cottage in every part of the kingdom. He had said that this trade had flourished under the Company. He was not desitous of withholding a tribute of praise to the Company's officers, to whom at different times this trade had been indebted, but he could not go the length of ad mitting, with some who had taken a part in these dis cussions, that the monopoly of the Company was the only talisman by which the trade could be unlocked—the only condition by which the growth and produce of the coun try conveyed to that people who were the most desirous to consume, and the most able to purchase the article. Notwithstanding that opinion, which he entertained now, and which he had ventured to form many years ago, when Chairman of the Committee who investigated at that time the whole of the subject, yet not being prepared, from the then state of the Charter, to come forward with any specific recommendation on the subject, he had waited with anxiety to see his opinions confirmed by experience, which was the only satisfactory test of their truth. It so happened that a combination of cir cumstances had occurred to afford their Lordships the opportunity of judging, not by theories, but from the evidence of facts—from the state of our commerce with Canton—and from the success of those adventurers whom circumstances had brought into those ports, independently of the Company, what was the degree of success with which the trade of the Company was conducted. It was true that the Company continued to trade there, but others had also come thither—Europeans, traders from the United States of America, and finally, the private traders of India ; and it should be made apparent to their Lordships, that not only one but all these traders had carried on their trade to greater advantage than the East India Company bad been able to do, and that the East India Company's trade had been a falling trade during the latter part of the time, while that of the persons he had mentioned had been an improving trade. He held in his hand a paper that would show the results of the imports of the Eat India Company during the first and last yens of the period that had elapsed since the last renewal of their Charter. The imports made by the Company into the port of Canton in the years 1813 and 1814, were valued at 5,646,000 dollars.—(Some observation was made upon the calculation having been stated in dollars. The Noble Marquis continued.) In the years 1831-2, the last during which, under the present Charter the accounts could be made up, at this time, the value of the imports was taken at 3,691,688 dollars. During the same periods the traders of the United States had imported goods into theiport of Cann, to the amount, in the yearslBls-16, of 2,527 500 dollars, and in 1831 and 1832, to the amount of 3,050,937 dollars. He was aware that in the Ameri can trade there had been great fluctuation in the internee • diate time, but in the result it had been a gaining trade. He could refer to the evidence of Mr. Bates on this sub ject, and it would appear that the American trade had been the means of carrying out a great quantity of Eng lish manufactures to Canton, a proof, indeed, that the trade with that place was the means of administering largely to the employment of the industry of this country. That was not the only part of this case that was entitled to their attention, for during the same time an extensive field of enterprise had been opened under the very eyes of the Company, by the individual merchants of this country. He should now refer to the Company's exports from India, and compare its amount with that of the exports made by individual merchants during the same period. In 1814, the exports of private. traders amounted in value to 6,035,128 dollars —while in 1831-32, it was more thin doubled, fur it reached 16,84.8,553 dollars. To show that the East India Company's trade with Canton was a declining trade, he should quote a paper, showing how touch their profits had diminished between the years 1823 and 1832. In the former year it was 1,117,532 dollars. In the latter it was 683,844. He therefore thought it impossible to maintain the argument that had frequently been maintained upon high authority, namely, that the character of the Government of China was utterly inconsistent with the allowance of individual enterprise and industry. He believed that this was one of the many instances which occurred, and which were not confined to Europe and the East, but seemed to be in immediate operation every where, that the maxims of Government in man.; places seemed to say one thing, while in practice the conduct of Government materially differed from these maxims ; and if their Lordships would consider what was the first character of the Chinese peo ple, and the field of commerce in which they were en gaged, they would find that whatever was the principle of Government with respect to trade, the disposition to do so was the characteristic of the psople, and must be the real wish of the Government. There was little doubt, that if in the Court of the Emperor any one should adopt and express the opinions that the people of the North stand in need of the woollens, or the people of the South required the cottons of Eugland, or any part of the em pire wanted the skins of America, such opinions might be prosecuted by a Chinese Attorney-General in the Courts of the Celestial Empire.—(A Noble Lord made some observation respecting opium.) But he believed it was not less true, that from the highest to the lowest mandarin, all acted as if they felt the persuasion that foreign commerce was necessary to the prosperity of the Chinese empire. Why, the whole of the Eastern Archipelago was in a state of activity through their labours. Alines were worked, pepper was grown , sugar was pla n t e d; and the whole of the agriculture of Java was performed by them, and all the products of these various branches of their industry were carried from place to Fleet: in Chinese jenks, upen as extensive and perfect a system of commerce as ever was manifested by any people in the world; and the Chinese Government, de spotic as it was, did not dare actually to oppose itself t., the wishes of the people. Le.s one of the ti When thearcNteoshlperLootirbditeodppb;o site spoke of opium as the Government, he had in truth adverted to a fact confirming the position already advanced ; for, in oppo sition to the nominal prohibition of that drug, there was really a most extensive use of it; and the Chinese Ga. vernment were not able to prohibit it, the prohibitio n being contrary to the wishes of the Chinese people. It was true that it had been made the subject of considera tion, but the report addressed to the Empire, in the very respectful words customary among the people of the East, declared, that " if it pleased Y e Emperor he might undoubtedly extinguish the trade of the Europeans, but that such a course would be inconsistent with the ten demos his Majesty had been accustomed to sliow to foreigners, an.l that it would be more in accordance wit' that tenderness to allow them to trade, but to impose a duty upon the articles they imported." That report was not very far inferior, in knowledge of political economy, to that which we had shown when, twenty years ago, we first put a stop to a wholesale system of prohibition, and imposed duties on articles in its stead. In the same manner, there were laws in China against the advance of money by Europeans to Chinese, yet it was known that there were constantly loans made by Europeans to enable the Chinese to trade; and that the East India Company having diminished the amount of their advances, the Americans bad stepped in and made larger advances to individuals in China for the same purpose. He thought lie had said enough to satisfy their Lordships, that it was time that the individual enterprise of British trade and commerce should be fully admitted to that field of enterprise which it could most usefully extend, that it would enlarge the demand for British manufactures in China, and carry on that commerce which had hitherto been exclusively in the bandit of the East India Company. From their large importations, the industry of the country would be bene fitted, and front the competition thus occasioned, a great reduction in the price of tea would necessarily follow. It might be said that this trade was owing to the protection afforded by the Factory, but from the correspondence of the Viceroy of Canton, it would seem that the Chinese knew very well the nature of the Company, that they expected the intended alteration, and anticipated from it no other difficulty but that of providing a proper magistrate to act. in that place. To that correspondence, which was to be found in the report presented to the House of Commons, he should beg to refer their Lordships. That would show that the Chinese had a full knowledge of our trade, and that, far from desiring the continuance of the present system, they wanted nothing but that which their Lot tl ships must endeavour to provide the means of regulating, and ordering such disputes as might from time to time ari.e. In that place, notwithstanding all that was said of the unwillingness of the Chinese Government to give en couragement to commerce, there were facilities for it which were not exceeded in the port of London, nor even in the port of Liverpool, which, of all others in the world, was believed to offer the greatest to the influx of foreign trade. Their Lordships would act with due respect to the general principles of commerce, and would be taking advantage of their experience if they adopted the resolutions now to be proposed to them, taking only those precautions which would insure the establishment of an authority before which the disputes of the Europeans and Chinese might be determined. It would appear from the papers on the table of the House, that in the mode of conducting their trade, and sending their remittances—for the Company had imported more from China than they had exported thither—they had been obliged to lean on the aid of private merchants, a fact, which showed in a curious manner how monopoly was often compelled to depend on free trade for assistance. Having thus spoken on the question of the China trade, he now came to the subject of the East Indies themselves. If the trade cf China was, as he had shown it to be, a falling trade, that carried on in the East Indies was a losing trade altogether. Notwithstanding the re newal of the charter, with a clause in it with some degree of favour to the private trader, it was stated on the authority of a Noble Fi iend of his, of whose assistance they were now unfirtunately deprived, that al though the interests of the private trader professed to be consulted by that Act, it might be defeated altogether by the very extensive privileges then reserved to the Com pany. But so powerful was the genius of trade—such was the energy of the British merchant in conducting his enterprises, that from year to year the Company had been forced to retreat before the superior activity and industry of the private trader. He should show this, with re ference to the Indian trade, by a statement of the ave rages for five years. In the five years ending in 1818, the average value of cotton exported by the Company in each year was 110/. ; exported by the private trader was 86,168/. ; the average of the exports of the same article, in the five years ending in 1823, was for the Company 342/., and for the private traders 217,046/. In the five years ending in 1828, the average value of the exports of cottons of the Company amounted to 31/., and of the pri vate traders to 224,381/. In 1830, the Company ex ported nothing, and the private traders exported to the value of 185,940/. Although it was natural to select the article of cotton, as that was a trade in which this country was most deeply interested, yet it must not be imagined that this was all, for he could state the same with respect to other branches of trade, which, though not of equal magnitude, yet were most important. He should take the article of earthenware. In 1830, the Company exported 42,000 pieces of earthenware, and the private trader, in the same year, 1,245,860 pieces. He now came to what they imported from their ewn domi nions, and he found that there, although the Company were accustomed to make large purchases, yet the pro duce was larger on the part of the private trader.— (Hear, bear.) In 1814, the exports of cotton wool from their own dominions by the Company amounted to 366 6911b5. ; the quantity exported by the private trader amounted to 2,483,6271h5. In 1830, the exports by the Company amounted to 620,3301b5. ; by the private trader to 11,892,5361b5. In the same manner the exports from their own dominions of indigo, in 1830, amounted, by the Company, to 2,154,3411b4. ; and, by the private trader, to 5 772,516.b5. In 1814 the export of refined sugar by the COmp my was 412,401 cwt. ; and by the private trader, in the same year, it was only 3,148 cwt., but in 1830, the export by the Company was 158,358 cwt. ; and by the private trader, in the same year, 660,720 cwt. Having stated these general circum stances, he thought that their Lordships would be pre• pared to come to the conclusion, that the Company could not longer continue as a trailing Company with advantage to itself or the country. It had been stated that the Company could not trade in India, and govern India, without having the assistance of the trade of Canton. That led him to the question, whether they should longer be permitted to trade as a Company to India, however fit it might b= that they should continue to administer the government of that country. That one or other of these things should be abandoned he had no doubt. Though there had been many instances, in barbarous and uncivi• lized countries, in which Government and trade had been blended in one person, it was impossible that it should be so without the character of the Government suffering from the principles of the trader, or the trader being lost in the character of the Government.—(Hear.) From the circumstance he had stated, it was evident that there must have been a considerable loss suffered by the Company. From the laudable wish to administer their Government properly, and from the very proper desire to attend to the interests of their subjects, they bad, perhaps, gone a little beyond the mark ; and out of the perpetual conflict be tween territory and trade, and out of the difficulties of making up such accounts as should satisfy Parliament or the country, they had been led into a state of things, in which they had found themselves compelled to abandon one trade after another to private individuals, who had at last really made themselves masters of the commerce of India. Here he should be disposed to close this part of his state ment, but their Lordships would, of course, expect some explanation of the mode by which Ministers proposed to carry it into execution. They proposed, then, that the territorial possessions in India should be made over to the King's Government in full sovereignty, and also the assets of the Company, there and in this country, subject, of course, to all demands at present upon them. And, in return for this, it was proposed that the Government should take upon itself, on the part of the territory of India so vested in it, to pay the entire amount of dividends, amounting to 630,000/. per annum—those dividends be ing solely on the territorial, and not on the commercial property of the Company. It was proposed that Go vernment should provide two millions as a guarantee for the payment of these dividends for forty years, at the expiration of which they should he redeemed at the rate of 1001. for every 51. ss. Their Lordships would bear with him while lie stated how the assets stood, and what were the demands on them. The Com pany's commercial assts, as first stated by them, amounted to 21,641,5571., which, with 8,616,1131., old claims doe to the territory, made the total of their nominal assets 30,24'1,670/. But their Lordships well knew how difficult it was to make estimates in any matters, either of a public or a private nature, at all times correctly, and, therefore, not to mislead their Lordship, which was far from the wi.h either of the Government or of the Com pany, lie should make several deductions.—(His Lordship here read several long figure statrments, but in so low a tone, and so confused a manner, as to be frequently inau dible in the Gallery; the revel: we understood to be that there would be a clear revenue of 759,000/. to meet an expend:ture of 718,000/., which included all possible demands.) Their Lordships would also expect to be saris ' fled of the state of the revenue of the Presidencies, which, he was happy to say, would not be fallen hard upon. The revenue of the three Presidencies of Bengal, Madras, cud Bombay, on the ave► age of 1828-29 30-31, was about IS crores 51 lacs. Lord ELLENBOROUGH was understood to ask the amount in English coin ? The Marquis of LANDSDOWNE really thought the Noble Lord could tell much better than he could, but he would refer to a document very shortly. The revenue, he continued, was eighteen crores 51 lacs, and the charges for the three Presidencies amounted to 16 crores 54 leer. And here lie could not proceed further, without expressing on the part of the Government their strong sense of gra titude at the conduct of the present Governor-General for they well knew that it was mainly owing to his per sonal character and indefatigable exertions, that the large reductions proposed by the Board of Control in this country had been carried into effect, and that the finances of India were at the present time in such an improving state. A real, effectual, and safe reduction was in progress, and the expenditure was rapidly being cut down to that amount it which it stood previous to the Burmese war.--(The Noble Lord here went through several other long figure statements of crores and lacs of rupees, and pounds, shil lings, and pence, from which we gathered, that the final surplus of income over expenditure in the three Presidencies, might be estimated at 198,7801.) Con fidently could he state, after a reference to the evi• dente before their Lordships—evidence given by persons of practical experience and of acknowledged character— that the first real step towards an improved state of society amongst the natives of India would be in giving them a larger share in all public offices. In support of this view they had the opinions of a series of enlightened minds, arrived, too, at that mature period of life when opinions were deliberately and caklully formed, and whose visits to our Indian possessions gave them the best possible op portunities of judging on such points. To these witnesses to the improved state of the character of the natives—an improvement mainly owing, be repeated, to the East India Company—he should not more particularly refer, except in the instance of two persons—the late Governor Monroe and Bishop Heber, who traversed, with such pious enthusiasm, those distant regions. 'The sound and practical opinion of Monroe was, that natives were more qualified for public offices than Europeans ; " and (said he) we have here a whole nation to make choice from— but of Europeans only a small body." Bishop Heber, in the course of an extensive journey—a journey of cha rity and religion, said, " that in the natural disposition of the Hindoos he could see abundant reason for believing they would constitute a kind-hearted, sober, industrious, and, on proper occasions, a manly and valiant race." Seeing that they had these natural attributes of a great people, he thought they would be remiss indeed in the performance of the high duties of their station, if they were backward in securing, as far as could be, every opportunity for the development of them. It would be, therefore, part of their plan to open every office of the State to every native, of whatever sect, birth, or religion ; and he felt assured that it could not fail of proving highly beneficial both to India and to this country. Other changes would also be effected in the administration of the Council. What might be done hereafter towards the establishment of trial by jury he should leave to a future occasion to speak about—though he should not refrain from expressing his hope that a system known in the An tiquities of India, which was analogous to the elements of trial by jury (Punch-eyre, as we understood the Noble Alfarquis) would be revived. It still existed, and had been found very useful in Malabar, and still more so in many villages and towns, and might ultimately lead to very important purposes in the administration of the law. In Ceylon, according to the testimony of several persons, the trial by jury bad been found of very great effect. These, aided by other matters, might also be the means of carrying into effect the abolition of slavery in the East. He had now gone through most of the pro posed changes in the system ; but there was another which he must mention, which referred to the better government of the N,irth-Western Provinces—the newly acquired territory. It was here necessary that a firm and effectual Government should be established, fat, owing to the re missness in the administration of justice, caused by the seat of Government being so far removed, much inconve nience and mischief had accrued. The rime would more properly arise on the discussion of the Bill for entering into the details on this subject; he confined himself, at the present moment, to a mere general outline. With the ex ception of one other point, he had now gone through his statement. That point referred to the spiritual welfare of the natives. It bad been found impossible for one Bishop to get through the vast duties appertaining to his office, and it was therefore proposed that the two Archdeacons should share his labours with him. Government had another intention. It was intended that Europeans should be admitted to all the old settlements in India with out licenses, but that the licenses would be necessary to admit them to the new settlements. On account of this, it was proposed to vest greater authority in the Council with respect to the exercise of the law. If Europeans were admitted, and if they flocked to that country, as he hoped they would, the result would be of the greatest ad vantage to the civilization of the vast population of India. He would here close the observations that he had thought fit to make in furtherance of the resolutions he had intro duced. In making those observations he thought himself justified in travelling beyond, perhaps, the sphere be ought to have confined himself to, and for this reason, because he thought that their Lordships would be called upon to ex amine the whole of what he had alluded to. lie was sure that the principles of those resolutions, if they should be acted upon, would extend and be enlarged beyond bounds that could not be well calculated; and without being at all too sanguine as to the result of following up those prin ciples—without calculating upon any extension of territory through them—he was confident that the strength of the Government would be increased by the happiness of the people over whom it pre , ided, and by the attachment of those nations to it. It was for this that he would conclude by moving, that their Lordships would concur in the reso lutions that had been communicated to him. The Noble Marquis, in answer to a question from Lord Ellenborough, begged to remind that Noble Lord, that what he had said of the intention of adding additional power to the Govern ment of India, referred only to the Supreme Government —that it was not intended to do so to other inferior Governments. However, the intention formed no part of the resolutions ; it might be adopted afterwards, as might ether changes, indepen lent of the resolutions. But that would form a subject for future consideration and discussion. The resolutions having been read, Lord ELLENBOROUGH said the latter parts of the Noble Marquis's speech were so much more interesting than the former portions, which were mere matters of dry detail, that he regretted that he should be obliged to call back their Lordships' attention to the subjects to which the Noble Marquis adverted in the be ginning. He knew how little interesting those details were to their Lordships, the more so as they related to a country imperfectly known, consequently he should be as brief as possible on those topics of mere detail. When he had the honour of presiding in the Committee on East India affairs that sat in 1830, he stated to their Lordships that the great object that was to be considered with re spect to the trade with China was one of finance. That it was to be considered, whether India could support its government without the profits of that monopoly; and if not, whether that monopoly should be continued, or the expenses of thegoverntnent provided fur in some other way. From the first moment that he entered the office con nected with the administration of India, his first object was to reduce the expenses of that administration so as to be able to open, without risk, a free trade with China That, he assured their Lordships, was his desire; and he be lieved it was also the desire of all his colleagues. Still be had never indulged the extravagant hope that was now entertained by the Noble Marquis opposite, that the open ing of the China trade would be productive of all the ad vantages to this country so sanguinely expected by some. His opinion was, with respect to the opening of that trade, that it would only facilitate the circuitous trade carried on with the East. From it be expected no other advantages. He apprehended that there would be much danger to the merchants of this country, if their trade with that country was carried on by British manu facture. No matter how that trade was carried on—in British bottoms or otherwise—no matter whether the produce of British manufacture was traded with, directly or indirectly—it would be of no advantage. In some branches there was an apparent increase—for instance, in cottons such an increase appeared at first sight, but it was only in quantity, and that advantage was lost by the reduction of, prices. He confessed, however, that whilst he looked to any increase of British manufacture, he could not help looking with sorrow to the other side of the question when he saw that such an increase must entail a loss on the manufacturers of India. As little did be agree that by the proposed measure the Government of India could be carried on without extraneous assist• mice. Nothing but the minutest attention to the local Government of that country could enable the general Government to be carried on without having recourse to extraneous assistance.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that if be looked to the average income of the Company's revenue for the last twenty years, on the whole he might calculate that there was an increase to the extent of 100,0001. In the changes he and his col leagues contemplated, they intended to bring in a Bill which was to fix the salari,s of officers in Courts of Jus tice. They contemplated a reduction of the Judges, and this reduction would be a saving of at least 60,000/. a year. Would any one believe that the expenses of one Judge in Calcuttt averaged annually 18,0001. ? Besides these reductions he had others in view in the Bill he had contemplated. He had contemplated reductions in the military force of India ; he had collected materials on that head, and was prepared to lay them before the Noble Duke then at the head of the Government a few days before he left office. These papers, however, he left to the dis posal of the Board. He believed that if the alterations he intended were effected, they would close all the grievances existing in the European and Native service. By these alterations he would hays increased the revenue by the year 1835 upwards of 300,0001, whilst he would have added to the efficiency of the army. The present Government entered upon the government of India with 300,000/. less than if his minutes had been acted upon. By the Noble Duke it was also proposed to throw upon India the government of Ceylon, which would be a relief to this country of about 95,000/. a year. The conduct of the present Government was widely different, since it not only threw upon this country the expenses of governing Ceylon, but also the expenses of the government of St. Helena, which, together, amounted to an expense to this country of 180,000/. a year. He could not understand that part of the statement as to surplus revenue made by the Noble Marquis. For his own part, he was guided by the esti mates laid on that table, as well as by those of the East India House. He steered a medium course between the two ; and he found that, after calculating by each, there would be a deficit—at least so he anticipated—of half a million a year, for by the present plan no reduction what ever could take place. In the Noble Marquis's statement, he first perceived that there was an increased item of 163,000 h ; the Company were to receive a compensation for past services of 56,0001., and they were to be paid, for , ervices hereafter to be performed, the sum of 150,000/. Moreover, there were to be five Commis sioners, each to receive 6 000/. a year, which would come to the annual sum of 30,000/. There was also, as he understood, a commission to be appointed to inquire into the question of India slavery ; and if that commission was to be paid in the ratio of Commis sions, it would be paid 30,000/. a year as long as it lasted. It was, of course, to be a travelling commission ; and when the expenses of travelling in India were calcu lated, they might be fairly rated,at one half the amount of the Commissioners' salaries—at 15,0001. a year. The new Governor of Agra was to have 10,000/. a year; which, together with the salaries paid to his secretaries, and others under him, would at least amount to 20,000/. a year additional expense. Two new Bishops were to be appointed, that would occasion an expense of 10,0001. a year. It was besides intended that the Governor-General was to be a Governor-General in motion—that be was to be migratory—moving from one end of the country to the other. What would be the expense of such a Go vernor-General? He must travel with an army, so that it was not too much to say, that there would be an addi tional expense, if it was intended to make a migratory Go vernor-General, of at least 50,000/. a year. Add to those expenses the salaries of the secretaries of state that were to be appointed, and of those of other subordinate officers, and it would be found that the whole increased charges would be beyond all calculation. The amount of all those additional charges would not certainly be less than 500,000/., and there would also be found a deficit of reve nue to about the same amount. His Majesty's Govern ment, it did appear to him, had taken great credit to themselves for the compromise they bad effected with the Company. Without meaning the slightest dis respect to their talents for negotiation, he would take the liberty of saying that that was not exactly the point upon which they ought to pride them selves.—(Hear, hear.) The proposition which they flattered themselves they had exacted from the Com pany was a proposition which had been actually made to the late Government, and all that the present spoke of doing, their predecessors would have actually accomplished, but they would have done it gradually. The object of the former Government would have been to induce the Company gradually to withdraw their assets from the China trade, and otherwise invest them ; and that with drawal, he did suppose, could be effected without loss or risk, provided it proceeded gradually. One of the first changes which would be effected by the Government would be to change the character of the constituent body, and therefore of their representatives. He was of opinion, that when they ceased to be a trading body, the consti tuency would be materially deteriorated, and the character of the Directors would in consequence be most extensively changed. He certainly did not desire to see any consi derable diminution of that influence amongst tl►e Directors which was eraential to the useful working of the system ; but in order to that useful working, he would affirm that the Directors ought to be men of high character, of pro perty, of independence, of impartiality—unapproachable by the Government; men to whom the country could look for the delivery of an unbiassed opinion. In future, nothing of t! at kind could be expected, and a fair sample of what might, in all times coming, be ex pected, was to be seen in the treatment which the present Court of Directors experienced at the hands of his Majesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.) That treatment offorded the evidence that could be adduced of the estimation in which the King's Ministry held the Court of Directors. He fully anticipated that the effect of the proposed alterations would be, to fill the India House with retired Indians, and that the direction of the Company must, necessarily, fall into the hands of persons of that class, who, of necessity, would come to the Court with all the feelings and prejudices acquired during a long residence in that country. One of the propositions of the Administration was, to do away with the Council for Governor,. In some cases that surely was not in accord ance with the professions of the promoters of the intended measure ; for the existence of those Councils savoured of reform, and acted as a check upon all despotic tendencies ; and amongst other advantages of the Councils, there was this, that they enabled the Government at home to become acquainted immediately with all that the ruling power of the dependent State had occasion to do. It had been alleged that the Presidencies of India had been extrava gant in their expenditure. Had it been so with Bombay? Had it been so with Madras, whatever might have been the fact with respect to Bengal? Then there was another objection to the mode in which the Councils were dealt with where they remained—namely, that their numbers were doubled. That, he conceived, would create great delay, and render the Councils inefficient. It was, besides, most unwise to dissociate the Commanders-in-chief from the Councils. Then, again, the Supreme Court was all but de stroyed, though in his judgment that institution ought to he preserved with the utmost care. In their advocacy of the propositions then before them, their promoters appeared to contend that the changes which they proposed to effect would lead to increased facilities for persons going out to India. He doubted that any increased facilities of that kind were required. Sure he was that, under the late Government, not one was denied the opportunity of going out who could make out a colourable case even for the permission to go out. His Majesty's Government had also taken great credit to themselves for the manner in which they proposed to do away with slavery. Now, slavery, in the conunon acceptation of the word, did not exist in India ; on the contrary, it was domestic servitude in the mildest form, and therefore there was but little im provement in putting an end to it. Upon all these grounds he must refuse Iris assent to the propositions of the Noble Marquis. It was impossible to pass the enactment, as he had seen it in writing, declaring that every slave, after the 12th of April, 1837, should be free, without pro moting insurrection from one end of India to another; it was infatuation—it was madness to suppose that the re sult would be different. He was as earnest as the Noble Marquis in his wishes to raise and purify the morals of the inhabitants; but be had never anticipated that the time would ever come when, according to the Noble Marquis, all offices, civil, political, and military, might be in the hands of natives. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE remarked, across the table, that be had said that all offices should be open to natives by law. Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought the distinction a mere mockery, and that the existence of British power in India depended upon the exclusion of the natives from political offices. As a counterpoise for this deprivation, he would grant to them all offices that could be safely held by them; for their Lordships would recollect that our position in India was maul our own seekings and that from it we could not recede without disturbance and bloodshed; by the sword our empire had been won, and by the sword it must he preserved. The Earl of RIPON—It was satisfactory to find, not only that the Noble Lord approved of some parts of the plan, but that he actually took credit to himself for bay ing originated them. Such was the case with the Cbina Monopoly. He (Lord Ripon) agreed that it was incum bent on Ministers to show that the probable future con dition of India warranted the experiment about to be un dertaken, and that a surplus revenue was anticipated in order to carry the scheme into effect with safety. [The Noble Earl bete entered into a detail of figures relating to the revenue and expenditure of the three Presidencies, showing, in crones and lacs of rupees, sicca, and others, that there was an available surplus revenue, after paying all charges, of 198,0001.], Such being the pecuniary means, which the Noble Lord could not dispute, he had proceeded to insist that the bargain with the East India Company was improvident. He (Lord Ripon) contended that it was a compromise between the state and the commerce; and the Noble Lord had admitted that if he had continued in office he should himself have brought it too compromise. After adverting to the nature and amount of the India debt, and to the mode in which by the resolutions it was proposed to be dealt with and redeemed, the Noble Lord dismissed all matters of figures, and noticed some of the general topics touched upon by the Noble Lard. He had objected to that part of the plan which required the East India Company to abstain from carrying on their trade with China. He (Lord Ripon) differed from the Noble Lord entirely upon that subject, and wished to know on what ground the Noble Lord could anticipate that the Company could carry on the trade beneficially ? They took art. $ CIRIIRP. 1 Jr had already been obliged to abandon their co runeree wit h Colo ‘ nel Wood agreed t.) wi India; and even the China trade was not now so a 'vrill; e i sust„ 122„ e tageous as it had been some years ago. The Noble Lots then objected to the putting of the Government of Ind. under one Governor-General, and giving him the super intendence of the whole dominion, and he called the pl o mischievous; but though it was true that Mr. Mott!: A Ments, Claus Th p e follnwi Stuart Elphinatone had objected to such a plan, r i it was recommend e d by the authority, at least equas' 131, 132, -- 13f. bein read, of Sir John Melcolm, Lord William Bentinck, to if commissh C. Metcalfe, and the three Gentlemen—Messrs,, an alteration ii Hill, Bayley, and Dax_to whom the consideratioe cons quent m of the subject had been referred. He thought tbi ; tea with. L g ord ALTI plan especially good, as it would give the Governor es . etu y el value provinces, which, in his opinion, required much care, I I t is st l c r e . General a better superintendence over the north-wee actual valuatio faetionpto the I they were in fact the outworks of India. The Noble Loy • ' wa C gae O tod : etet as the oorer c disadvan t°o t hopes from torn difference to th throwing then then objected to the proposed Commission on the subj appointment tl Lord ALIT of the law; but though it was true that it might be absuS Pro m po r r . t A io c n ia i o n l to attempt to make a code for 50 different systems of Ise and bodies of people, yet some general principle applicable lie entreated tl to all might safely be adopted. As to the admission Europeans into India, though he should net recommend e sort of colonization of India, yet still, if t hei r .1 : ;a. admission ki nd to throw were so regulated as to secure the introduction of th e , skill, industry, and capital of Europe, he thought it mei' he beneficial to India. It would certainly be right 0 keep out mere adventurers, but he hardly thought it Po' sible that such people would go there, for the country wet opposed the air densely peopled, and it was no longer the same as sober' there were many small Courts of independent Princes, 0 objected to, he which a profligate man with talent might hope to rise to The remaini a high military or civil employment. On the whole, h e resumed, the re thought he was entitled to say that the object of the plas, to be read a th was to combine the interest of the Company as far e ° The Parish possible with that more noble object of contributing to the Bill were read benefit of 60 or '7O millions of people, whose happiness BU dthaeydsahyallonhavMeci depended, in a very considerable degree, on our exertions., Lord ALTB The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that as be lute ing :-....Fi e ,, , t l been a servant of the Company for many years, he we ° Rouse will pr bound not to remain silent on this subject. From wha t sittings betweei he had then and from what he had since seen, he muse the business alt say that he thought their Government was the best an° Second, that e r r ed wi G t 7e se r d n . inen it t wmost not purel y no w administered question wthheatth whether a bad h chartered was the best for carrying on the double operations of trade days, and Frid and government, or for carrying on only one of these ceeding upon t things. He had seen the Cowper.) , in the days of their the Select Con glory, and when it was at the head of a population of one The resoluth hundred millions; and notwithstanding it had been ens gaged almost continually in wars, its debt was only fort,' Mr. D. W. i millions sterling. It was, therefore, untrue to tell the nals of the Ho people of this country that such a Government was unfit Majesty was ai for the purposes of government and trade, when hitherto commission to it had united both. He admitted that the Parliament corporation s in had always retained to itself the right of revising the in- hended that tl stitutions of India, but always, as he thought, subject to required would the condition that the Company was a trading company. was' anointed. He complained that, as a trading company, it was now to porations woul be put down. He could not but observe the politics l way of the log consequences of this. A trading company, with a revenue mission under of 20 millions, must have been more independent, as e attendance of v government, than that government would be when it wished to know ceased to be a trading company. The proof of it wee a c ommission, 1 this:—They were now required to consent that they went, whi c h w would sign any despatch th a t was sent t h em, and they attendance of r consented ; although, when the same request was made in inquiry in an el 1784, by Mr. Pitt, they refused to accede to it. He should Lora ALTHI like to know whether their privileges, as a trading corn' voluntary evide pany, were to cease at once, or in April, 1E134 ? for, the -a° ° evidence o difference of time would mak e a grea t diff erence i n point that to the corp of finance. Th e i n j ur y t o t hi s country, an d espec i ally t o th e conuni this town, would be considerable from the change' Mr . BARIN and, if possible, s till more f rom t h e matter h e h ad re' London would e ferred to being left in doubt. The people of Poplar wer e mission. Con. almost maintained by the East India trade. There were metropolis, it w many complaints about distress, and he believed that they should tak e plat all resulted from uncertainty as to trade, and the way itt city of L on d on which it was to be carried on. Hi s op i n i on was, that the Loped that out East India Company should have been allowed to card ginate for putti on trade as a Joint Stock Company, and to effect this, be l'aiforna system would have repealed certain provisions of the Commute' Lord ALTH tion Act, and made other alterations which circumstances "eluded from 1 might have required. One of the great inconveniences , THE CAI however, which be found in the proposed plan, was the Mr. ROEBI. drawing of the dividends from India, by which remittance. With respect to would be of necessity so largely increased. It had been _ L ord ALTIII said that be and his Noble Friend had told the East Indio r.,,n Tuesday nex Company, that if they could not find the means of carry' u°l.ttenittee to in ing on their Government, they might do it by borrowing; inei The Noble I but what they bad said was, that they must discontinue 5 4 1% . expenses which were no longer absolutely necessary and m atte r , M. AT expedient. He could not too much deprecate anything Bin Manchester and which went to undermine the independence or authority, '„,'• and establish a despotic power in the hands of the Gee The Merchan vernor. General. That supreme officer, it always appeared InTe--eßepett to him, had as much power and authority as it was de' ~ n 'll ALTH( siraele any one should have. One thing, however, be : e u t : ° I Chando s should particularly impress upon the Government, , and ,,. Ifll state of the that was the extreme imprudence of ever allowing l ee W °° l 4 he p i the Governor-General to quit the province of Bengal' 6,7 4 - ATTWI That province, he could tell them, was the seat °I Esl; ell ' complain England's strength in that country—the source of bet chi °f Man in wealth and of her power, and nothing so much ender''' trinß , or reduced the other, as his absence. Then RICE b gered the one,r. , Re a d e as to the point of opening offices to the native population' ' qu en a urst 1 It could not he carried into effect. It was a great imps' Lo ce el o th e al diment in the way of employing natives in judicial office s ' signedt b y to allow Europeans to go into the interior. He luta/ h wour 133 r 30,00 enough of that country to justify him in saying that be L ord a r the defied them to employ th e na ti ves i n j u di c i a l offices so long elero, s ° Prese t as the Europeans were all o w e d i n di scr i m i nate l y to go into porirti_eetno sn o t' the country and mix with th e p eo pl e . A s to trade being exatn vt of th e carried on in India to the ext en t p re di cte d b y M i nisters, it Ai:nation of I was mere nonsense. Look at the late failures there amount" f rom Iv RAfteee ing to millions of money—all of them, he asserted, caused k r, t gan. in by the strange uncertainty in which all matters of trade f ee 113 ; RICH and commerce bad been kept for some time in England', West ;ford s Under the proposed plan there would be such a continued wh en " tt 'ding e f insecurity, that commercial enterprise would never shoo' at' the ( , ) ,,,; 13 !ch itself. Capital would sooner go into the bowels of the tented from-r'rnen earth than to the regions of the East ; for there svo l , it was the nothing which could even afford a hope of safety, least ril` p ru de , ,, 1 all a chance of profit. There were many other parts of tire, Mr, :1 5 got proposed plan to which he wished to call their Lordships ei client 50 1 4 • attention ; hut at that late hour of the night he would 0° Pas S ages !Oa longer detain them. I n fact ..... 181 The Marquis of LANSDOWNE briefly replied. 1 • 'we b 11 1 tibl e keee av Lordship complained that the Noble Duke bad greatlfi tide, 411 5 ; 1 44 : v ent, and he was almost afraid intentionally, misrepresented the the constitute% l'' opinions he expressed; for no one could have spoken itl Pestion 0 , - ; c higher terms of the Company's servants than he had_ ?e , he so l ve ; ° 1 done. The Noble Duke had said that a great lose i e d iej a i s , be le, ,or will and injustice was about to be caused to London, but fer 9 ,1 d Y really never knew that the metropolis, or its shopkeepers L oci, tchice were to be benefitted at the expense of Liverpool, Glaeg cwir to s"a alto or other ports. He felt, he must say, as much for the toui 0 tlieirm, city of London as did the Noble Duke himself, but la nd nay, lie, his affection would not induce him to sanction an unjust ist; r Urn], and monopoly, or, for the sake o f b ene fi t i ng i t, do a seriou s le th P r oof to th and undeserved injury to other portions of the indite' h e slaves of triuue and enterprising population of England. He full/ itee tt in f at Wibs agreed as to the necessity of the chief seat of governmen t f J uly Ist, being at Calcutta and Bengal, but he could not but agr ee 11 t t c , )rt hwith t also in the necessity expressed by men of more experienc e _ w r ens you wi than he could boast, of creating a new Presidency witbuto L e t ‘s ‘ l , l too, an delay in the newly acquired territory. There was no die' . l a C l e ow, my position to make the Governor-General of India a roving e le ) slaves i Governor, but merely that be should look as thoroughly e , r ano,: aft, as circumstances would allow, into every branch of the ad- 4 " e woof s ministration of that country, f o r wh ose good gov ernment ,ste_verY child he was responsible. work Si .' W cr9es After a few words from Lord ELLENEOROUGH and t he eto , 1 " -- -- Duke of WELLINGTON, the resolutions were agreed t° 4, 1 e l ( 2 ) -1 w i'l se without a division, ant the House adjourned a few minute ° ko or , an tie , not later after one until Monday. tyr e% i e s , t 3 tre e little fact 'orde r e factor e t . l e , o , but t 4 r tb esc ~ beniY mitre ion s 4 aY i 1 t h ey Sh a ll 9 a t o CI 1. 10 41. 0 _ De d s ` , , , alinedre. '"not) fey eoon 4 heil ill ig 0 , 1 2 '411 1 'd ehildrei ' l 45tn e with', c° tattered,lZ.l4 ' ti ght field, - hotion • r. Lot ill Lot the bat their ow n e au 40i " , and sho tie his hissing It'r machine eve them for c ' t kshir e , , w i 4:1. Y men toile ' t 4 ei teley will D 61°6 4 ler e l. 1) w ill be in s 4 Your chil o ne the 4.1 em , . c p, io I lit vtit, pi eau c ills ‘.1,1'4' the k ii prat tOg e , her tre b " fr at ' u -'edeetN Prevail' HOUSE OF COMMONS, Jazz 5. The House resumed at a few minutes alter five o'clock' Mr. Sedgewick, from the Royal College of appeared at the bar with a copy of the regulations or by' laws of that establishment.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. Parkinson, from the Accountant• General's Offieet i appeared at the bar with a return o i the amount ° commission received by the Accountant-General. Lord ALTHORP moved the order of the day for tile House resolving itself into a Committee on the Church Temporalities (Ireland) Bill. Mr. M. ATTWOOD said, he understood that the Pt i• vileges reserved to the Bank of England would go to th e extent of prev en ti ng j o i n t- s t o ck b an k s f rom i ssu i ng n ote , and bills payable in London. He wished to know whethe r it was the intention of the Noble Lord to remove the re' striation on joint-stuck banks, which prevented them from making their bills payable in London. Lord AL'FHORP was understood to sty, that the Bi ll which he should introduce at present would only relate, to the B ink of England, and it would certainly preve° joint banks from drawing bills under 50/. payable in L on ' don, as at present, but there would be this distinction . ' that as to the joint-stock banks, the Bill would not allow the Bank of England to interfere with them. The result would be, that although joint-stock banks would not hav e the power of drawing bills under 501., payable in Loodoof any more than they had now, vet, if it should he he ro after found reasonable t o a ll ow j o i nt-stoc k banks g u have the privilege of drawing those bills payable in I.° ll i don, the Bank of England would not have the power ° obj sting to it. The House then went into Committee on the CM Temporalities (Ireland) Bill.