The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-16 00:00:00

00 1 i hopkelf obser o Toro i r - d thrl of W.- -0 span the retitiOa teratioa rburshl ' the COO 4 NP. ire 109°- 19 to inde ce. e , ;t3g y a ctio attack 00;00, ord th e . d i from d i d 0w 96111 00 iDg tb; l tem d ire)! 1, and . ..fi t tf and " o f. nimitY e „ ~ th ar, b odi es `" , rneu li sno t e7is e PG th sv _ e _ r has been completely overturned. Till then, atiti u , r .0; ,orris of threatening emphasis of the great itt_git,:ti,_tin......(tnel•:ieqeure/on- of repeal, agitation. agitation. taitelZorsat‘or,easolee l ii4 o f b ealin d It is in vain, then, to wait for th remedial measures.—(Hear, hear.) :line authority of the land.— ( clear.) Look, principles and organization of this twin% 2 . u 1 u i etY formed upon the pattern of the Volunteers of 4., 7Y Lords, the name, the period, the circumstance %St% iitl ep s* . l lation, which assumed as the model of the pre otituttd7t.etently showed the designs of those who have in -11410 _ Look to the very term Volunteer. What does it Perto n -a wi re ordinary acceptation of the word ?—A Petter rnin 9, of his own free will, engages in the "Iso:s,tice something like a military duty. This etagrar is to be extended over the whole country. asi eh ase °tiation is to he established in Dublin, 'entati the Pactficators are to be sent into every corner of tfih el ' e u _re! being established in each parish. The object osoo k aPtrificatore is to enlist and enrol the farmers, te- Ithi c k t Jabot' ; r•ng popul'tion in this great association, guid:"en complete in a ll i ts b ranc h es , is to be under end direction of th e central association in %att er 2 11, Y are to meet simultaneously with the k llclie e i7° l * and are to supersede the necessity of , I dcti o ,Z e e• When. the organization of this moral Lweeto;Llte. oats, W hen. is completed, it will be superior to the r eeat and is to prove its success by the establish osikhbou 11 . National Guard, upon the plan of that in a L l tkiel l ri ng country. This association differs from any ey 'r befofe existed. It is not bound together 'Mkt .stlir vt, b . nor are its discu,sions and objects Plt , to e d u,t, nevertheless, are such as would be f :Y sectet associations. It has, however, ti t) just - in , (l by a person, ingenious in the law, as to -okttle without th e reac h o f i ts pena l t i es , b ut at it tit " to be ready f or th e most d es perate purposes. j et tetie r ete64 ll , 4: 7 to stite to your Lordships that this is u to "co cannot be suffered to exist, and touch t e . thin e extend itself w i t h ou t th e a bandonment of •st 0 ll ecurities on w hi ch the safety and power of No,erntnent rest. Thi s , h owe v er , it is said, is an Sci i otended only to pacificate and regenerate t , t ; I have stated its organization, its principles, an d ultimate en d ; but, my Lords, it de bt:4lovn a rt/ time upon the mere breath of man, tl kt . l tubri ng t hi s i mmense organization into inane 1tqt,,,°,13. When th e plan of the Volunteer Association ttko, — got forward, i t was proposed that Mr. Steele r , 4 sit .4 f,_ ° into the coun t r y as th e c hi e f pacificator.— th ) .- ` 14 .) He professed himself most instrumental ification of his country, as a Member, isAiateir:7,oll Irish agitation. of pacificator, to prevent the That person said that no 1,,, ,, p,„ ue , Pacificator unless he was at the same time a fest,trular agitator—(ear, hear, and laughter)—and iL l tied n il Measure of confidence in Daniel O'Connell. Ot'h "üble character of agitator and divine pacificator 4:;n 4iteth io2' naturally characteristic.--(Laughter.) touch like a man going into a fair, and, after ;70 y : i s blows right and left, crying out peace and bps, . l to 411 .—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) This • Cilot krt i ,°f peace which these things are likely to th„ e tells the volunteers, as he told the people of sucht o „Daniel O'Connell requests them to have recourse Yshould have recourse to them, immediately. Z li to, ll :,t i lter states, that be will not order any men to go other person's wood to cut down trees, but that ioNs se , t i'l them to cut down trees in his own ‘ 4 444 4t : ;7 1 (t1ear, hear.) Though it is said that there is P L 'ation the period when these volunteers may I.e : t 954 noes the association may be regularly armed, yet t Lap er Zt to beau till their leader all ., ws them. We here '4 l t fo l highly promoted by their leader, declaring, I s 16 Il ebal from him, they wi.l be ready to assume tly It 4 4 ,11 th 4 ecessary, my Lords, to urge any thing more tjra th e e absolute necess i ty to f rame l aws which shall Government to put down this associa -0114; form one of the first objects of fiZet th 2cls I shall h ave to propose . B u t it is not only "Ids volunteer associations that we shall have to for t h e objects of which are certainly most mischie. 0 1 at 14 utsny parts of Ireland there is a s•at , of ti:OiS an moment lit.le short of actual rebellion. if t ;_tes ate in the habit of as-enib ing by signals from hells —(Hear, bear)—by horns. and by fires, tC t sl in vh Sl ?e° l , armed, and all of them conducted in a Likis„," i ell, to the present time, have defeated ail t ... - `4 4 .: of the Government and of the law. It is said o - h 7fitiC„„ S) °°les have nothing to do with the volunteer or with the in,asiires of the authors of that ' - '44:1: 4 * I do not stop to inquire how far it may be 41 4h tta.. 4 t they are caused by that association. A casual thIN : °lll 'i say nthat persons forming such bodies tic opportunity of the meetings of this and taking measures like that body, it 42. 1 : 1 be wondered at if they grafted themselves on Zsio.:elation.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") Was it to 71yrered at tt t i , yvnen their resistance to tithes was so 0 4 11 _ and so active, that all the person, employed in k'al tir 4 lto . effect the process of the law were subject zyt iobn.eietiens, to attacks on life and pro• slia to ° I not unfrequently, to the loss of lite? re it to be wondered at if the whole Govern to lore „__l ) reeented as acting universally against Leland, hil%r e r "'Ple are to be told that the laws are made Ili tt 'e . 11nd to prosecute them, and not for •he preset lko%tht°°°(l government—is it to be wondered at tha Si ko?que nce of all this is a general resistance to toiliSs e Ix it t o b e wondere d at t h at disturbances such Is t i l l,o rd :ecnrred in Ireland should ensue? Such, eo ' n t riu3t of necessity be the consequences o rne • That, my Lords, being the ease, I say pr 4, ohnent there exist associations in Ireland f. r -, of effecting thos e v e ry o bjects I have de yet t hue existence of which associations is' kept bio, purpo w of cat tying forth open defiance voar kaiatance to the law, which the law itself, by tOyNso, t n Peration, supported by the power of Go- IWy k ttOrd, not been able to put a stop to. This, v,tslof I admit, does not prevail over the li tkhl ; at store, however, prevail over a 'l, 44:l : l4 ,e t x u te r :t of that kingdom; sod, mY Lords. los s th e ' su 44 should therefore understand that it of disorders of these descriptions to • u exte n d themselves, i f not timely and vigorously 11.1.41 e It t of The whole, n.y Lords, I believe almost the I I „ t he province of Munster is in the q -v e described. In that province the t tt t tly lt - .. Curls and Tipperary are in a great state of hte t , t In the pr ov i nce there are disorders to a ' red 'lnd I believe the county of Louth has also tri t s With a similar affliction —(Hear, hear, hear.) I l lia' isi lltt;S ilsviH ee of Connaught, the account which es tt is ind the other night from the Noble Mar (Q to t „, 111 , e (Sligo) will show your Lordships the t 41 4 .4 V l eh things have been carried in Mayo.— th, a te `kith thteSe„ respect to Mayo, it has been truly stated co Part of those disturbances have arisen from betZtope-4tteated elections. Now, my Lcrds, what was tt )4 7 11 ss the contest on that occasion? Why, it was ~s li to of hewn professing himself to be friendly to the 4elti,2ue Legislative Union and two candidates Dl N Aier tn r c ted its existence. Why, my Lords, is it not okt • these associations to effect the repeal of the rf t i . ‘ ll p er Is it not a regular rule now with that body t ltcY -- kr : ° tut who present themselves as candidates, t? no t Repeless to oppose them to the Ai Pe r :. have no ' doubt , my Lords, that, like I. ki , : ltatb - ,„ ki° tls writers who address themselves to Ittfl h 7 pa g ;,. a ble passions of youth for the purpose —4 t _ excitement, and then think by some 4 1111' 4• thi, " quench the flame, thee exhortations to 11 ,,et,Se °WS by legal means is intended to palliate ''`e who a 'dress them. They do this with nt,t.thty t lHo tect thems e lv e s f r on t the con se q u enc e s to Z s ll k. l. l ,;`(e: it e , °tit unwilling to expose those who are their t h o f " Hear.") My Lords, it may be con saa,_ sat saint tl 4 ,llli t ed rPc . se, but I cannot believe that when fo ISi t4 Il e It 4 this fl 'me, they have so little sagacity t ,,,,.ealZ i edge of human nature as to believe that ti,,_Attl e „,`'lions tor au observance of the law will be oec t 't si` ,to keep them within the limits of their tlf -q - otS t e ; I "!)rdit, let me now revert to the county of Prod by ll the frightful description given the ett,AN . L itt , ttlY Noble Friend as to the state !h t . :Ne il ," 6 1 1 ' 4 part of the country. It was h o jith' of tL e Proceedings at an election, in *ll o "°... t hll "e harangues of the Repeal Association. •,„,-. 1 4 1 1 b." —, t n 'equen ces were describe p d ea by my Noble of 1q t 741 the_ el • ction no voter for those candidates Of t. p,4t 14 Co e „ r epeal of the Moon could come with Ps jeltib t ° p o i gi% vote, without the protectioneither lees or . of the military.—(Loud cries O tti o ll t! 4, l Ll' This My Lords, his is a sort of 1 ,1 0 the i% a sort of freedom which those who they ,7,Y e t tiona of the subject ate willing to per th e e Y tb Ut, my Lords, " Freedom of election" (If 4 4 44 .% I, l ' The indele.,sitile rights of voters' t4 4 : 14 , I:le . 4 , r itY of election," and at . the same time n th 4: 3 / 4 4 4 )...., 3 : 40 01 of violence and intimidation— to to - 'hoich destr l •ti all freedom of elec refadrestribte IviiZ - 1 if suffered to prevail, is worse v ", _ tc l t Odi en, of those abuses which I had lut . t .. 0414, 44 ..had to propose to your Li,rdships a e 4 Of ti sti Stilanientary representatit.n.— (Cheers.) d , thp t , - 4112 - present it di 7ottith,frY w here the system prevails. The i s i e , rb4.4 ti;::::ade the country—by night an d } Ive s against all classes of the corn munity—for the purposes not only of public but pri rate vengeance. It is by no means true, that thess isoraers-arise solely from tithes. There can he no doubt List the feeling about collection of tithes has been very strong—has produced many unfortunate eonsrquenioss which, I am sorry, have not been pr. venred ; bet they are directed to other objects. First of all, they pr scribe on what terms land shad be let. Anybody disoltrying their mandates is subject to have his property destroyed—even the penalty of death inflicted on him. They prescribe bow, and by whom, persons shell be employed ; they turbid labourers from working for persons obnoxious to them; and they forbid those who employ labourers born employing those who are not completely subject to their orders. All this, my Lords, is enforced by acts of the greata st cruelty and outrage—by spoliati• n—by burnings-:-by murders—by invasions—by attacks on boos s at dead of night—by setting fire to them—by bringing the inmates out—by cruelly beating them, even to such an extent that death ensues—or by inflicting the lesser evil of immediate death. My Lords, such is the state which exists in those parts of the country in which the system prevails ; and that it is conducted on a principle of organization is evi dent, not only from the objects they contemplate, but from the manner they proceed. They are assembled, as I have stated, in secret—there is a managing movement among them—they watch the movement of the police—they endeavour to avoid them, and it will be one of the provi sinus of this Act to prevent thole associations at night. from which those cruelties proceed. But there is besides this, a moat serious object, and it shows how absolutely necessary it is that Parliament should enmediately interfere, by the grant of new powers, in order to support the authorities of the law—it is thus that armed violence is directed against those who, in the execution of their duty, may act in carrying into effect the provisions of the law. One of the chief causes of proscription either of persons who are to he sued, or to be employed, is their having assisted in any way in prosecution according to law. There is one singular instance of it which I must detail to your Lord ships. There is one case in which a mandate of proscrip lion was issued against an unfortunate female—an orphan child—whose mistress was ordered to dismiss her from her service, because her mother had given evidence on one occasion on a trial for a capital offence.—(Hear, bear.) This . mandate was, of course, issued under a threat of death.—(Hear.) And such oc• currences are so numerous, that if the documents con taining them were to be produced, they would cover the table, and could not be read within any reasonable time. But, as I was stating, the most dangerous, the most alarm ing, and, perhaps, the most fatal of their proceedings is that which renders the law impotent to the detection of guilt, and the punishment 01 the offenders; because the vengeance of those persons is directed against those who. either as prosecutors, witnessereor jurors, have been engaged in earl ying into effect the provisions of the law. My Lords, I should be happy to state to you many details, it it were necessary, to satisfy your minds. 1 shall give one or two instances of the manner. in which this intimidation has been exerted to prevent witnesses and jurors from doing their duty. My Lords, I have stated that those measures of violence are directed against those who occupy land contrary to the will of those who issued those notices. I have in my hand a letter from a chief constable, which states that so recently as the 29th January last, Cashel was the scene of a most barbarous murder. The letter stated that in the night previously, at 8 o'clock, five armed men went to the house of an md man, not less than 70 years of age, ordered him to give up some land which be had held for two years—took him out of his baptise, and ohm him through the body. He survived only half an hour. The constable took the son of the deceased to Cashel, who was a witness of his father's murder, and whose manner showed that he knew more of the transaction than he was willing to disclose. This is an -instance of the atrocious manner in which this power of terror is exer cised ; it prevents a son from even giving evidence against the murderers of his own father. Your Lordships have all seen stated the case of the policeman of Carrickshannon; and what took place upon the proceedings respecting that affair must be a satisfactory proof of the inability to carry the law into execution. At the Kilkenny Assizes on one trial the Jury aid nut agree—considerable excitement pre vailed-1-considerable apprehension of danger was enter tained, and within halt an hour atter the jury were dismissed a placard appeared, stating the names of those who were for the acquittal, and those who were for blood—as it was stated : for their names were at tually headed, in the placard " blood—blood." The consequence was, that every one of those who were for the conviction, and who were placarded as desirous of spilhog blood, were obliged to leave the country. The steward of a Noble Friend behind me, I believe, was one of those who, from this caus•-, were obliged to leave the country. I think 5 were for the acquit. tal, and 7 were fear the conviction—the latter were obli, ed to leave their houses and their country. I base heard of e great many instances, in which persons were thus obliged to leave the country. And are not these instances suffi cient to tail upon you for measures to enable h i s M s . jesty's Government to enforce the law, which without increased poster they .cannot do ? As a fur titer proof of what is the effect of this system of intimidation, you are all aware that a scene the most unprecedented took p ace at the assizes of Clonmel epee a trial ,against Penni-father. This was the trial of a gentleman charged with a comas, Tracy to obstruct. 1.. e collection of tit , es, and the most respectabl e Catholi jurors kept away, nu doubt un- er the it.fitieilcr of intimidation.—(Hear, hear.) But I can poiduci to the House, ever. a more striking case. It happened, some time ago, that a gentleman—l am really rerard to mention his name, although on tee point of asking yew- L-rdenips to accede tai a measure which 1 hope will render it no longer dangerous tat mention names—well, then, a gentleman who occupied land was atrociously murdered, early in the evening, within sight of his own gate. This murder originated in a tithe dispute. Hi son •in-law was a witness of the murder, and was subpceoed by the Coroner to give evidence respecting it ; but he sent a message to say he would submit to arty . - penalty the law officers of the Crown might think fit to impose, rattier than appear in Court, as that would be sure to lead to the forfeiture of his life. I have in my hand a letter addressed to Sir William Gossett, dated Kilkenny, the 20th of January last, from a person employed upon those matters. Tue gentleman states that the Waist conscientious jurors could not attend at the next assize, but wotill suronit to any fine, for they knew they should lose their lives, if they acted according to their consciences. He states, also, that the prisoners in all tee jails make it a boast that juries dare nut convict them. It is nut necessary to go much further to prove that Ireland is in so disordered a state as to render recourse to remedies beyond the ordinary power of the law necessary. In order, however, to bring the state of Ireland down to the present moment, I will state to the House the contents of a letter received from the Attorney- General, dated the 24th of last month. He states that the infornaatious upon the Home Circuit alone are equal to those of the whole country two years ago. He further states that out of one hundred anal fifty cases be has examined, the victims of outrage were not gentlemen or parties connected with tithes, but the pour and delenceless, with respect to whom assassina tion seemed to be the order of the day. He also presents me with vitt frightful list of crime committed between the Ist of January, 1832, and the December of that year; homicides, 241 ; robberies, 1,179; burglaries, 401 ; eurnings, 568 ; houghing of cattle, 290 ; serious assaults, 163 ; riots, 201 ; rescues, 353 ; illegal notices of which I have just stated the consequences, 2,09 t ; illegal meetings, 427; injuries to property, 796 ; attacks on houses, '723 ; firing with intent to kill, 208 ; robberies of houses, 171 ; illegal administration of oaths, 164 ; resistance to legal process, 3 ; resistance to tithes, 50 ; turning up the land, 20 ; taking forcible possession, 2 ; making alto gether a list of 9,002 crimes committed within one year. It appears, my Lords, that this is a system in a state of progression, for 1 have here a comparison of three months, July, August, and September, and October, Nuvein er, and December. In the first three the number amounted to 1,279; in the last to 1,646—50 that your Lordships see that this stare of crime in Ireland is in estate of most lamentable increase ; and this, my Lords, be it remembered, is in the province of Leinster alone. Now, my Lords, before I proceed to lay before your Lordships the Bid which, in cons.quence of the state of Ireland his Majesty's Government have thought it necessary to propose, there is one thing on which I should wish to say a few words ; but previous to doing so, I would remark teat there outrages have not been confined to par ticular individuLls. Catholics have been murdered as well as Protestants. Such is the state of Ireland, which appears to have arisen from a general demoralization, such as never before existed. Before stating the Bill to the House, I must say a few words with respect to the Government and my self. I feel persuaded, my Lords, that I shall not he charged by any of your Lordships with baying come too soon to this House ; on the contrary, it there is any charge to which 1 should he exposed, it would be that I had de ferred it too ion_—that I dial not listen, miring the last session, to the urgent appeals that were made to me to bring forward such measures. My Lords, my reason for nut doing so was tie anxious desire 1 felt to delay as long as possible the present application, to retard it till the ra ceesity for it was such as to tome itself upon the conviction of all men. My Lords, I dip not feel that it is a heavy charge against the Government that they have been slow to propose the measure, for I had hoped the ordinary powers of the law, supported by a large military force—a force the largest and most efficient that ever Was in TrAarad Amine peace, and, I I ;elieve, in point of reeular ttoops, exceeding the proportien of nearly four to one the amo; nt of the ;regular army in Ireland it the time of the rebellion—l did hope, my Lords, that tay the employment of such a force in sup. port of the administration and execution of the law, the trace of Ireland would have b-en preserved and conti nued. I iiid, therefore, my Lords, not consider myself at liberty to propose measures of severity and coercion till the powers of the law were cle.arly shown not to he strong enough. My Lords, I should be sorry if, from any neglect of ditty on my , part, any of the evils which have befallen la-eland should have been caused ; but there is this adyantaee, at least, attendant upon the delay of the measure, that your Lord. -hips must be at once convinced of the necessity of bringing forward the measure at the present moment. But it was not on my general cenfi !ence alone I acted. The first essay was successful in sending a general special commission into the count y of Clare, then the most disturbed district in Ireland, and by the support of a great military a perfsct peace was restored in that coun'y, and it has remained so ever since. The same effect has been pro.. dueed in the Queen's County. Even' when a Noble Lord lest year called upon me to resort to other measures, there was then, in my opinion, every prospect of success._(Hear, hear.) The first enforcement of tithes gave hope that the collection of them would be seccees. ful—it gave a hope, that, by the strong am-stance afforded by Government, who never refused to give that security which the urgency of the case required, the peace of the country would be insured.—(Hear.) That hope, I am sorry to say, bas failed, and we are, now under the necessity of coming, before your Lordships t o ask you so to strengthen the heeds of Government; as to enable us to act for the protection of the country. I, my Lords, have omitted many things ; and, among others, in speaking . of the intimidation held out to witnesses and Jurors, I have certainly omitted to state that Magistr des also have been intimidated and threatened. Although it is their duty to act vigorously, end it is the duty of Government to press upon them to perform their duty, yet, when they are exposed as they have been in some instances to danger, it is not unnatural that they should shrink from a duty which exposed them and their families to destruction. Therefore I am far from imputing blame to them, knowing the system of in ,imidatilon that prevailed; this, however, is an additional argument in favour of the measures which I shall have to pros ose. I have now, my Lords, to state the provisions by which we mean to correct, to suppress, and to prevent. the evils which I have detailed. I have stated that the consideration of the subject before us divides itself into two parts ; first, resp , cting all those associa tions I have described at some length and the evils and dangers of which require no further explanation ; and next, the repression of those violent disorders which I have described. For this purpose his Majesty's Govern. ment had before them various Acts of Parliament, appli cab'e to both cases, and the Bill which I shall propose, combines the various provisions of several laws passed both in the Irish and the English Parlia ments, at different periods, for the suppression of si milar evils, together with such alterations as the circumstances of the times require. In the first place, with regard to illegal societies. In the Bill which I shall have to lay on the table, the provisions for suppressing the associations are taken from the Act of the Bth George the Fourth, chapter 1, commonly known by the name of the Proclamation Act. By this Act the Lord Lieutenant will he able to suppress, by order, the meetings of every assembly deemed by him to be dangerous to the public safety, or inconsistent with the administration ol the law ; and all suppressed, or adjourned, or continued meetings of the same, under any name or pretext whatever. My Lords, these meetings which were provided against by an Act of George IV. were misdemeanors which came under the common law. Under this they would be punishable as a misdemeanor in the subsequent part of the Act. Provisions are made for proclaiming districts in a state of disturbance, in which a different mode of trial, and different Courts for the purposes of that trial, will be instituted. Any offences against this Act will be prosecuted before those Courts within the proclaimed districts. This part of the Act relates generally to the kingdom, and the Lord Lieutenant will have the power of suppressing, by a Proclamation, all meetings and adjourned meetings, deemed by him illegal, assembled under any pretence, at all times, and in all circumstances. My Lords, there is one clause for giving effect to this power, by which it is int- nded to euppre-s these associations. There is also this provision, that the persons prosecuted are under this Act obliged to plead forthwith, that is, they will not he enabled to delay their trial. I do not see how a case of this nature so intimately affecting the public peace should not subject those who ate guilty of them to what prisoners indict. d for felony are now sub ject.—(Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") My Lords, it is then prOvided that the Lord Lieutenant, in order to pre vent disturbance, iney i.sue his proclamation declaring any county to de disturbed, which county shall b e deemed a prod :hoed district. By these Proclamations al the inhabitants a e to be warned to abstain from seer. nous and other inala‘s-ul meetings, and continue in their ',tame, 'rein sunsett.ng to sunrise. Tnis, my Loads, is a pro vision taken from the 4th of George I. which aoeears abso itoely iaec essay y under: the pi eseet circumstances Ms Lords, I have stated that these assemblies are enabled to elude and defeat the pursuit of the mil i; ary, and it is therefore necessary that some ex , ranrilinary measure shied,' be adopted. This provision is taken trim) the hewn eetion Act. i%ly Lords, by sonic of the subsequent it is inyiineil tart in any of those proclaimed districts, no meeting fur pi-ti iotoo r Parliament, or for considering any matter of Church or State, shall be held unless there shall have been on kys' notice of such meeting extensively circulated, and the same notice given to the Lord Lieutenant, nor shall such meeting he considered legal, air in any case allowed to be held, without the consent of the Laid Lieutenant having been obtained. This will only apply to those districts which the Load Lieutenant shall have been obliged to proclaim. My Lords, if this no ice was not required, the pruclamai ion would be inoperative, except in Dublin, tor the meetings might he held in distant parts of the country isefore the proclamation could reach them. These, my. Lords, a te some of the provisions contained in this Bill. But I now come to a clause, which I could not have done hut for its absolute necessity. Under the Insurrection Act the power of bringing persons acct-ed of those affenc, a was confined to the Justices, assisted by a Sergeant-at-law, or one of his Majesty's Counsel, and to them was confided the power of ttansportation. My Lords, under existing circumstances, it is scarcely necessary for me to say that there are many reasons why that course should not be pursued. It has been shown in Ireland that Magistrates, who have honestly exercised their functions, were not only without influence, but were actually the subjects of feelings of and were liable to lose their lives almost every hour. .'Sow, my Loids, what remedy can there he for all this ? All those things appear to his Majesty's Government to render it absolutely necessary that Ireland should, to a certain extent, be subject to martial law.—(Hear, hear.) The Courtsmartial, constituted as I shall present.y state, will he enabled to try all offences committed, described in various Acts known by the names of Whiteboyism, &c., as well as offences committed under this Act. They will have the power of trying those offences, and pronounc ing sentence in the same manner as other Courts uaartial.—(Hear.) My Lords, 1 know that this is a substitution of unconstitutional Courts for the ordinary Courts of law ; and I feel all the pain arising from the necessity of adopting this course, that any one can 'semis bly led; but then I leel that, to make a law effectual for the suppression of all those evils, there s,eius to be no possibility of stopping short of what I have proposed to your Lordships. But, my Lords, in making this provision, it is necessary to have'all the security that is possible to be given. Uuder the former Acts, where the power has been given to form martial courts—l allude particularly to the 39th George powers were given to the Lords Lieutenant to appoint eourtsmartial as they ahou'd think fit, without re striction as to number.—(llear, bear, hear.) Here it is provi ed that the courtstnartial assembled under this Act shall -not cons i st of more than nine, nor less than seven ; that no person less than 21 years of age, or who has not held a commission in the army for two years, shall be capable of being a member of the Court; that they shall not have the power to try for death, except by the special direction of the Land Lieu tenant—(lle,r)—ared even in that case, they shall not have a power to inflict a sentence beyond transporta tion. These are the limits and securities which we are to have added to those arising from toe general honour and conduct of the officers of his Majesty's army, to attach to the provisions of the law, which 1 acknowledge to be unconstitutional, but which 1 feel to be absolutely necessary. I almost forgot to state that there was a further security. Under former losurrectien Acts, the Lord Lieutenant was permitted to appoint Sergeants-at-Law, anti King's Counsel to assist the Justices as Judge Advocate, but by this Bill it is made imperative. I will not at present go into the de tails of the Bill, but there are one or two points to which 1 would claim your Lordships' attention. I have already steed, that any per-on found out of his house between sun-rise and sun -set, without legitimate cause, or absent from their houses at the same period s without legitimate cause, will be subject to the opera tion of the Act. It is also provided, that any per son disposing of seditious papers in a proclaimed district sh,ll be considered guilty of a misdemeanor, and liable to be imprisoned for not more than twelve months ; but that it should be i❑ the discretion of the courtmartlal to discharge him if he should make known who einpleyel him. It is provided, that any attempt to injure either the persons or pr iperty of any one who has appeared as juror, witness, or prosecutor, shall carry the penalty of transportation for seven or fourteen years.— ( Hear, hear.) Is former Acts the punishment for this crime was death —(Hrar, hear.) It is evident that, however faithfully or carefully the officers employi.rl on those courtsmarti. , l may discloarg , th, ir duty, they will be open to vexatious and malicious prosecutions, and, there•ore, it is provide.l. that they shall not he expos e d to prosecution for anything in the dis. charge of their duty, but, in order that they oily be under some control, any offence of the nature of an abuse of their power'', will be tried -by a courtmartial, according to the ar•icles of war.—( ir.) Thus a miti gated system of martial law will be applied to those districts th e state of which will be such as to authorize the Irish Government, under its responsibility, to vine a pro clamation to that eff,ct. Tlntre is another point I must men ion. It is that in the event of a person detained under this Act suing out a writ of Habeas Corpus within three months slut I be a sufficient return to the writ, to say that the person detained is so under this Act. This, my Lords, is confined solely to proclaimed districts ; so that there will be a limited suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act in those districts. My Lords, it seems to me absolutely necessary, in the execution of this law, that such powers should be given, otherwise persons might be withdrawn from the authority of courtstnartial, by suing mit the Habeas Corpus Act. (Hear, hear,) It is, my Lords, with pain that I have brought forward a mertaure of . this nature,' and I trust your Lordships will think with me, that necessity has been shown for it. It will act as a partial suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act ; but the adoption of such a course, I think every person veil see the necessity of.---(Hear, hear, bear.) It is also, my Lards, provided, as a further seeurity against improper organization, that all persons arrested shall be brought to trial within three calendar months or discharged. . I do not know, my Lords, that it is necessary for me to proceed farther with the general provisions of the Bill. There are many subordinate points which it will be necessary to trouble your Lordships with at a future, time. Stich, then, my Lords, is the mi-asure which I have brought forward. It borrow' some of its provisions from the Insurrection Act, and it particularly suspends the Habeas Corpus Act. These, my Lords, are powers which, in the ordinary exercise of justice, are absolutely incompatibla with the British Constitution. But they are powers, my Lords, which the necessity of the case appeals to me most loudly to call for, and which the state of Ireland can alone Justify.— (Hear.) This, my Lords, is the condition of all Go vernments. Powers of this nature, if constantly exercised, would entirely prevent the existence of a Go. vrrnment. But if exigencies arise in which the public safety is endangered, without the means of conferring such extra ordinary powers as I now require at the hands of the House what, I would ask, would become or such a Government ? But on the titaxim—" salus populi, suprenia lex," it has been the practice of all Governments, when the state of the country threatened public tranquillity— when order was destroyed—and the liberty of the people in danger, to resort to the Parliament of the country togive them extraordinary powers. My Lords, the foundation of all true liberty is public order, and the moment that public order is destroyed, liberty does not exist. Under a Government, my Lords, possessed of arbitrary power, liberty could not exist. But under a Government poss. ssed not of the power to control such violence as I have described, the security of society would be put an end to altogether. Tile question, then, my Lords, is, whether a case of such necessity has been made out. Now, my Lords, I have stated to your Lordships what have been the endeavours of Government to enforce the law ; -how and by what mans they have attempted to effect that purpose ; bow they have attempted to put an end to these illegal associations ; fur illegal they are, though by cunning devices they may be kept within the strict letter of the law. They are illegal, for they threaten the peaee, security, and liberty of Ireland. I have shown your Lordships iu what manner the outrages which have been commit ted in Ireland, have affected property, and even the lives of the peaceatile subjects of that coun try. --(Hear, hear.) I have shown your Lordships that the power of the law has been unable to effect the peace o Ireland. And in this extreme dilemma, my Lords, with entire confidence, I throw myself upon your Lord.hipe, and propose those measures which, I trust, will have the effect of putting an end to these associations.—(Hear.) There is another point which I wish to mention, and which I forgot in the early part of my speech.—( Hear.) I mean a measure to change the venue in all cases where intimidation shall he practised so as to enable the Crown, if a fair trial cannot be had in the neighbourhood of the place where the offence may be committed, to remove the trial, and to fix any part of the county, for the purpose of having a more fair and impartial Jury. That is a measure which I consider absolntely neeess,,ry. I now, my Lards, beg pardon fur haviog trespassed so long on your Lora st.ips' attention, and I nave to thank you for the indulgence you have shown towards me.—(Loud cheery.) I wi'l n ct.nelude by moving that the Bill be laid on the tittle —(Great cheering.) The Earl oi LONGFORD was understood to admit he necessity of the mi.,..tires proposed by the Niible Earl for the pee tleation of Ir la 41. He allowed that the gni sery and disorpniz soon in odic cininiry were se. y grew, and that coercive wee-urea w, re, therefore, absolutely necessary ; but what had produe d that disA.goiiizatio n ? —Theme could he La doubt that it was ti .e system of agi tation pursued by persons who, from the situations in whieli they were placed—or, indeed, in any situation— should not have encouraged such acts of violence and in subordination. He knew that agitation was eneiiu-aged by the Noble Lord to whom the Admiiii-traiion of that country was intrusted, and that that agitation never would have reached the length to winch it has now arriveo, were it not for the encouragement riven by that Noble Lord. Tiie Noble Lord was then understood to refer to a letter in which the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland encourage t agitation. His Lordshipcould not hope for amendment in the state of Ireland as long as the reins ut the Government were confided to the hands ef the No le Ma Tits who at present held them He, indeed, did not consider that his Ma jesty's Government was justified in recommending the Noble Marquis to his Maj s y as the Governor of that country. He was not alone of that opinion ;it was an opinion very generally entertained in Ireland. He would make one single remark regarding the measures proposed by the Noble Earl. He (Lord Lorton) 'lid not consider these measures as strictly coercive ; he cons dered them as bona fide protective measures; for the greater part of the people of Ireland were perfectly willing to abstain from agitation if adequately protecte.l from the comparatively small number ss ho agitated that country. He considered it atisolutely necessary to extend protec.tion to the upper classes against those who were urged on by the bloody and treasonable counsels of a few factious agitators. The Duke of WELLINGTON then rose and said, he was con vinced the Noble Earl opposite would not suppose that he had any motive, in formerly rioposing some such measure as that now proposed by his Lwdship, but a sincere conviction of the necessity of adopting measures for the settlement of Ireland. The Noble Earl might rely upon it, that he (the Duke of Wel lington) would not oppose the measures now proposed ; but, on the contrary, that he would give them every support in his power—(cheers)—and further, that he would say nothing that night, which might be calculated to create irritation, or to pro duce soreness in regard to the causes which obliged the Noble Earl to adopt these measures. He continued still of the same opinion which he had formerly declared in that House, that some measure should have been adopted by his Majesty's Government at an earlier period, to quell the disturbances in Ireland. He still continued to entertain the opinion which he then expressed—that the Proclamation Act ought to be continued in force—an opinion in which the Noble Earl aid not at that time coincide. He had frequently stated to their Lordships what he feared would occur, and they now saw that the state which he foretold did actually exist in Ireland. He hoped that the Noble Earl would be successful in the measures which he was about to adopt in that country. In allusion to the evils described by the Noble Earl, and the measures adopted to quell them, he (the Duke of Wellington) would make a few observations. In the first place, he feared that the greatest evil of which Ireland had to complain was in some measure lost sight of. He did not think that the measures proposed by the Noble Earl were sufficiently directed against the demagogues who were continually urging the people to acts of violence against the Government. He feared that the mere suppression of the Habeas Corpus Act, though he admitted that that was a strong measure, would not be sufficient in the present instance. He would beg the Noble Earl to recollect one circum stance, it was necessary for those sitting in judgment on delin quents to examine evidence upon oath, in order to form a correct judgment of the guilt or innocence of the parties ; but he feared that in consequence of the system of intimidation pursued, there would be a difficulty in procuring evidence, if means were not taken to protect the witnesses. He had no doubt but the Noble Earl might depend on the officers of the army— (Hear)—but then they must have evidence before them, or they could form no judgment. He did net say that in opposi tion to the plan proposed by the Noble Earl, but merely threw it out as a subject for his consideration. He had one further observation to make regarding the executive part of the plan — which was, that unless the guilty offender could be brought within the meaning of the Insurrection and rroclarnation Acts, he could not be brought before court:a:Alai. He would Pure: remark, that the Noble Earl had said that the sentence of ti. courtmartial should take effect at once, and without revision. That was not the case, as no sentence pronounced by . a court martial could be put in force till approved of by superior. autho. ity. He concluded that the Lord Lieuteuantwould be the pro. per authority to give that approval, but, at all events, it would he imp,ssible to get an officer to put a sentence in execution, un less some superior authority were responsible for it Therewere certain observations made by the Noble Earl on which he wished to make a few remarks- The Noble Earl stated, that the con cession of the Catholic claims had not produced all, the gcod effects expected from it, and he hinted, that one reason why. those good effects were not produced - was,- because the conces sion was forced from the Government. He,.(the. Duke of Wellington) had addressed their Lordships over and over again on the causes which had induced him to recommend to his Majesty the concacNion of those claims. He stated that Ireland for many causes, was bordering on a civil war, and .he con., sidereal it better to grant ti:at c7tacession, in order to pacify the country. He stated, however, that civil war was not to be ex_. pected. He stated, indeed, that if-concession were not granted, it might stir up civil war, but never that he had adopted that Measure . in order to prevent civil war. lie allowed that the. country was in as bad, if not a worse, state than if it were in a state of civil war, and that those concessions were made as a remedy for those evils ; but he had never said that the dread of civil war was the cause of making the concession. He con chided by saving, that he would be happy to give every support in his power to. the Bill proposed-to be brought forward by the Noble Earl, opposite. The Earl of UXBRIDGE had listened with the greatest attentiOTl'and surprise to the speech of the Noble Earl (Long ford), in which he charged his Noble Relative, the Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland, with having created agitation in that coup_ try, though the Noble Earl must be aware that agitation - pre vailed in Ireland long before his Noble Relative had any share in the Administration in that country. He thought it would have been but justice if the Noble'Earl had read the whole of the letter to which he alluded.—(Hear.) It would then be seen that what was meant by the words ." Agitation, Agitation, Agitation !" only meant that the people should adopt .every legal means to procure the object they had then in view. Lord LONGFORD did not mean ,to say that the Lord Lieutenant created the agitation,. but by the encouragement which he gave to the agitators, the mischievous consequences which were so apparent in Ireland were produced. The Earl of ELDON said that, in order to preserve the liber ties of the country, it was necessary that the Government should have the power to enforce the laws. The question now was, whether these extraordinary powers were to be granted for a limited period, or till the mischief was removed. He thought that these powers should be granted till the ordinary laws ofthe country were found sufficient to protect the people and enforce the laws. Earl GREY considered with the Noble Earl (Eldon) that the only principle on which the powers now asked could be granted, was that of necessity; and, acting on that principle, he did not consider that these powers ought to endure biyond the necessity which occasioned them; and he (Earl Grey) never intended that they should endure beyond that necessity. He was afraid, however, that the necessity would not cease as early as he wished ; but the earlier the better. Nothing would please him more than to have it in his power to say that they were no longer necessary. It was his intention to ask that these powers shouldbe extended till the end of next Session, in order that the House might have an opportunity of ascertaining if the necessity continued. He was perfectly aware of the difficulty of obtaining evidence in Ireland, but he hoped that when the additional security which the measures he proposed were put in force, it might induce witnesses to be less reluctant in giving their evidence. If, however, the emergency should occur, he would be happy to consider the suggestion made by the Noble Duke. He did not, however, think that it would be necessary. The LORD CHANCELLOR deplored the necessity which, in his opinion, was the only reason which could justify his Ma jesty's Ministers in adopting the measures which had been that night proposed for their Lordships' consideration. In pro. pounding that plan, he took his full part of the responsibility of it upon himself; and he thought that he was justified in that. First, on the ground of absolute necessity. The duties between the governed and the Government were reciprocal. A Legislature had no right to enact obedience to its laws, un less that Legislature could afford sufficient protection to the liberty of the subject ; and the crowned head which could not afford protection, he looked upon as an usurper. The facts, which had been brought before them that night pretty much in detail, were of such notoriety, that it was unnecessary for him to go over them. But it was a fact of melancholy notoriety, that the honest and industrious cannot, as the law now stands in Ireland, obtain effectual protection. This was one reason why he heartily concurred with the Noble Earl in recommending to their Lordships those extraordinary powers; in order to strengthen the Executive. The next ground was, that he hoped it would prove effattive in settling the disturbances in Ireland. Had it been a paltry innovation on the Constitution—he meant trifling in its effects—he would have had some doubt as to the propriety of the adoption; but the very magnitude of the powers required, the greatness of the infringement on the liberty of the subject—the very extremity to which the mea sure went, afforded the best security that it would be of short duration. Though a measure severe in its nature and stern in its aspect, it was, he hoped, effectual, and it would be limited in its operations. He would advert to the objections brought by the Noble Duke :—First, as to courtsmartial ; and, second, as to the difficulty of getting evidence. And he thought that the first point was amply provided for, as all the magistrates and the police force were required to assist those tribunals; and with respect to the difficulty of getting evidence, owing to intimidation, he thought that the other parts of the measure which would prevent those nocturnal acts of violence which were so severely felt, would restore confidence among those who had to give evidence. The next ground on which he supported this measure, was his entire confidence in the persons in whose hands the execution of those powers would come. Those extraordinary, and, he hoped, limited powers, were in the hands, first, of the Noble Viceroy of that un. happy country. When he called it unhappy, he meant that it was so as being the, prey of disturbance. In the Noble Viceroy's tried firmness he had the greatest reliance. It was the peculiarity of all kindly natures to be stern, when cases of necessity required severity. ThOugh his Noble Friend, the Mover of this measure, had been obliged to have recourse to the sterner feelings of his nature on this occasion, he had such confidence in the known and tried gentleness of that nature, that it gave the amplest security that not one iota of those co ercive powers would be abused, which necessity peremptorily compe.l al him to ask for. No, not one of those powers, he felt co .vinced, would be called into action, unless the most absolute necessity demanded it. He said this of his Noble Friend, because he knew the feeling, of warm affection which he entertained, more especially towards that port:on of the people of the empire for whom they were now called upon to legis_ late. His Noble Friend, if necessity compelled him to make use of the extraordinary powers he demanded, would take care that the execution or those powers should be tempered with gentleness and mercy. As for himself, he would unhe. sitatingly declare that he would be the last man in the world to countenance or approve of the measures now sought for at the hands of their Lordships, did he not consider that they would not only be a means of relief, but of sterling im provement. They would be a means of improvement, for other beneficial measures were in preparation, and would immedi ately follow, when the authority of the law was restored in Ireland, and when the tranquillity of that country was brought back. It was not until that country was restored to such a state that the Government would be enabled to best consult its in. tercsts. He would conclude by assuring their Lordships that his Majesty's Government had nothing more at heart than the peace, prosperity, and liberty of Ireland. Lord ELLENBOROUGH had been more than once called upon to vote for coercive measures towards Ireland, and he had invariably done so with the most unfeigned regret, which he considered to be upon such melancholy occasions the gene. al feeling of that House. If he had voted for former coercive measures against his wishes, how much stronger mnst now be his reluctance to support the present measures, when be con. sidered them as nothing less than a complication of all the coercive measures hitherto proposed with respect to Ireland Though certainly he felt disposed to support Government in their efforts to uphold the law in this sad emergency, still he wished to examine and compare those measures, and see whether the . acts complained of justified such unex ampled measures of severity and coercion. Such were his feelings upon every occasion that extraordinary powers were demanded. For the present, he forbore to point out the arts committed by the present Government, as well as these they abstained from, which, in his opinion, mainly led to the evils they all now deplored. He would say no more then than merely repeat the extreme pain and regret with which he would vote for the details of the proposed measure, even though he should think them the very best to meet and re. medy the existing evils complained of. He begged before he sat down to be informed when the Bill was to be read a se cond time ? Earl GREY—On Monday. Lord CLONCURRY thought it advisable to postpone for some time the coercive measures contemplated, until the erects the new measure of Church Reform would have in Ireland were known. Lord LANSDOWN avowed that the measure was severe and awful, but still it was a necessary one. Government had applied all ordinary means to bring about the pacification of Ireland, and had unfortunately found that they were not of sufficient avail. Therefore, the necessity of applying to their Lordships for extraordinary measures was imposed upon Go vernment, in order to protect the peaceable inhabitants of Ireland, and at the same time maintain the prosperity of this country. A Noble Baron who had just left the House, and who claimed great merit for his forbearance, had said that the evils which preyed upon Ireland were the results of what the present Government had done, and what it omitted to do. If that Noble Baron had been in his seat, he (Lord Lansdown) would be able to answer the accusation he had thrown out against Govern ment, and prove that the evils of Ireland were to be attributed to very different causes from those instanced by the Noble Ba. run. He did not at present mean to enter into any of the topics connected with his Noble Colleague's measures, but he could not help thinking it rather strange, that the Noble Baron was the only one who thought fit to call for documentary ev dence, on a subject upon which the minds of all were satisfied, both in the House and out of it. It was self.evident that there existed a state of things in Ireland incompatible with the liberty of that country, and with the interests of thepoor as well as the rich. When such was the fact—when it was of the most general notoriety that such a grievous state of things existed—was it not unwise to wish to examine a large mast of documents, the examination of which would lead to a delay that would be most probably fatal to the measure proposed ? Besides, there was another serious objection to the production of duet:, -. :t t,. chbure 0f hatne:!, w 1,..•;, :au, pats Irelond wild be attended by the most tyrannical pers,cutions and those per. seciitions would be especially exercised over the poor, who at all times had particular claims on the protection of Go vernment. If the measures were to be adopted. at all, they should be without delay, and upon the manifest authority of the exigencies of the case. It would be time enough to enter' iiito rtf nute d,tails when the measure was discussed in 'CriniMit : tee ;., and lee : felt confident,: that - the.teStilt of their.Lordsbips' aelitleiaiions would be, the restoration of peate'rcand- tran- Amilirty". in Ireland, and the enablim okthe , Government to poosecute the measures of relief and improvement they in tendesito confer On the eatiiittry kle'entirely agreed with the measures of the Noble Earl who opened the discussion, and if. his Noble Colleague erred, then he pleaded guilty with him. Government, a. 4 tong A i lingering hope remained of securing property and Bib in Ireland, had recourse to no extraordinary means but from the moment they felt the sad conviction that the ordinary legal means were insufficient, they felt it their duty —as it was the deity of every Government, be it composed of whom it may—to give security to those they governed. It had been well said by his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, that if Government 153 not afrord protection to its subjects, it could not possibly expect any allegi,..nce from them. The Earl of WICKLOW hoped, after the recommendation a Noble Duke had given in the course of theevening, all acri mony in discussion would have been refrained from. He was sorry ,to hear the allusions of a Nobs: Marquis ';ow: - .. - rds the. Noble Baron who had. just left the House. Thr,v ' , ere not conceived in the best temper, and would on :v tend to cause intemperate heat in discussing a subject upon which the best feelings should prevail upon all sides. He entirely concurred with the feelings of forbearance expressed by the Noble Ba ron, and must also say with him, that however necessary • the measures proposed were, they were so severe that he was exceedingly desirous that documentary evidence should behold upon the table. . . the Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday next. , The House adjourned at a quarter to nine o'clock, until ten o'clock on Monday. COURT OF KING'S BENCH, Fca. 15. THE MAYOR. AND CORPORATION OF LIVERPOOL, V. BOLTON AND OTHERS. (ContirobA from our Paper ye=terday.) . - Mr. Thema. Corrie's cross-ex:mination continued_. The Common Council appointed the auditor or wirneNes icconnts. The 4/. that was retained was a charge upon ntaider roots. Stith roots came in sm til bales from the Mediterranean. Mr. Bolton had himself. from time to time, admitted that he was the exporter awl importer of the goods in queation. but refused to pay the tolls, for the 'purpose of trying the question. Did not know in which dock any of the goods were landed. Witness had been in the Common Council of Liverpool since 1811. The Cor poration had been at great expense in buile , ne churches, of all of which the presentation was in the Corporation, the sittings of which they let, supporting 01 the estab:ishments. By Sir J. SCARLETT—Had bad complaints on the heavy dues demanded on the importation of Motngeet. Mr. Bolton had always paid the duty up to MO. Fire bricks had been imported and exported .o and tivors Li verpool, but witness did not know the difference between their value and common bricks. ' By a Juror—Canes paid a duty of 2d. a thousand, imuld also charge the same upon bamboos. Joseph Molesdale examined by Mr. Poet.ocit— Wars Principal coast officer of Runcorn. Remembered the late Mr. Knyvett, the receiver of the dock anti town's due- for Liverpool at Runcorn. Had been frequently with him when he had calculated the town's duea, and received them. A. person named Jnnes was the present receiver . Wrtnese did not know whether Mr. Bolton hid had any goods landed at Runcorn, as it was not his bulginess to inquire the name-of the owner of the goods. Mr. Foster, examined by Sir JAISEE Scamotrr—Since the death of Mr. Stetham, had been appointed town clerk. There was a Court of Passage in Liverpool, of which the Judge was the Mayor; all port of causes ° were tried there. Witness had acted as coroner for the borough, and had sat on bodies taken up on the Cheshire side of the river. Had never summoned Juries from Runcorn ; they were always summoned from the borough. The writs in the Court of Passage were executed all over the waters of the Mersey, Warrington and Frodehion Bridge, and the Red-house. Fled known persons frequently arrested on the river, and had himself arrested persons at the extremity of the river who were running away. " By Mr. Sergeant wiL.E—Had other charters than those which had been prOductfel. This closed the case for the plaintiff. Mr. Sergeant WILDS then rose to address the Jury on behalf of the defendants; previous, however, to which the Learned Counsel submitted to the Learned Judge, whe ther the evidence which had been produced by the plaintiff was sufficient to main'ain the cause in Court, the deeds which had been put in clearly not tracing the property into the possession of the Corporation of Liverpool. The LORD CHIEF Jus'recx said that he would take . a note of the Learned, Sergeant's objection ; but in his charge to the Jury he should tell them that if there was a right to tolls, that right was in the Corporation. . Mr. Sergeant WILDS then proceeded to address the Jury. Tbe Court and Jury had been occupied a day and . half with the case of the plaintiffs, without a single silo . Nion having been made to any point that was mates id to the defendant. He believed that the defendant had,a per fect good answer to the case. The C.' , rporatiort of Liverpool received no less than 50,0001. a year. through the medium of those tolls, and they did not spend h. to afford conveni ences for the very parties upon whom the tolls were levied, It was true that they had improved the town,. but three ~arts of it were their own ; it was true they had built new churches, but it was equally true that they appointed their own sons to be rnitisosrs of those churches; ic was trod that . they had widened the streets, hut who ever heard of that being necessary for the improvement of a port? Now, with respect to the grants upon which the. ,vloale case rested, he (the Learned Couns.l) denied it to he in the power of the King to erant tolls unties* such :room would confer a benefit on hie subjects. The present toll was eh ally nothing else but a toll thorough, which could endure only as long as a benefit existed. The psi vats Acts of Parliament which had been put in were no more evidence of the pl tit's than i' they hail t een 'ank paper. Iu the reign of Anne, the hat b . = Liver phol not being sufficient to accounnielate the trade, the C •rporation did not enlarge the harbour themselves, but applied to Parliament, with whom they .n - ibit a b ifeain, that a certain portiou of the publia shhttiti he ex-- tolded in the erection of a dock, they vivitoa secoriv the amount on their tolls. N'tFre the Ceroora•tion of pool, therefore, woo wood not Live tt.e Wilk. that arson:.. modation they wanted, but wziel , was given at t',e public expense, now to reap the honeftt4 ci the outlay of public money ? The thing was in irself nionstr-ius. His Lest ned Friend had said that if the prasent toils were put a stop to, the improvement of Liverpool would be at an end. if it was preper that Live, pool should be improved at the expense of the public, he should say, let it be done by Act of Parliament, but don't improve it by axing the public in the manner the 1 had been taxed at Li verpool. He, the Learned Counsel, thougt t that 50,000/. a year was rather too good pay for doing nothing. He never saw a toll so cunningly exacted as the present ; ns sooner did a ship ent-r the port of Liv , rpool, than instantly a man with a large brass plate of office appearen to demand the tells, and such was the colour given to the transaction that peore were off their guard, or i' not, they were afraid to try the question with a wealthy Corporation ; he should ee very sorry to recommend any gentleman to ass-rt that the costs of the present contest would not exceed 15.000/. Poop e, therefore, were obliged either to submit to be uined by this heav ! tax, or by a law-Ruiz, if they re. fused to pay them. It was said that Mr. Bolton had paid the dues, up to 1 3 50 ; that was true, and so he probabil would up to the present hour, had he not heard that a neighbour was carrying on his trade without payii.g a single toil, and all because the Corporation had ches e n to make him a freeman. The Learned Counsel the n con tended that the grants referred to eerie na suck ate' as that which was now demanded by the Corporaaioa of Liverpool. He had endeavoured to get from sonic of slue witnesses some information about the Corporations, but tt aprvred they bad left their memories behind them ; an d t„, ask them about the deck* or Corporation, was to tterri iikr.tut at •ack of the cheleta.—(Latighter.) One gentleman could not recollect that upon a parcel of munket, which paid Si. in town's dues, only 4s. 6a. of dock dues had been charged, What would the Jury think of such an enor mous charge as 8/. upon an arttcle, the wh de business [elating to which had been thine by the Dock Comp any for 4s. 6d. ? The Learned Counsel said hr w .uld next ad vert to the Aots of Parliament. He would assume for the pi esent that the toll was well fouuded, awl then, he con tended, that it' he c,,uld show that the cen iteration for the toll bad been withdrawn, the toll war no longer payable. • The Act of Anne recited, that, eriereas great danger and loss of life and property had twitted to ships and crews going to Liverpool, from the want of convenience, and the want ol buoys and lenduiarks, and it provided, that, in consideration of a certain toll upon the tonnage of ~ hipping, the Corporation might erect a wet dock. The very recital of that Act showed that there was not sulficieM accommodation for ehippiug, and therefore there was tiler no consideration f u r th e d ues now c l a i me d. .The a" made in accordance with that s t a t u t e was no w filled up, and the o and used for buildi ng purp,ses. There was a n end , th e e r r e efre : to the cidisid severalother mk all the f o reign whipping trade was done in .the dock s e era A ri r e ts u , d sitei appease , . fur tsalh There that w at L i verpool, .for the bleat/ wee so ;helm% that tt q `p