The Sun. — London, England, 1833-06-18 00:00:00

PARIS, JUNE 15. (PRIVATE CORRESPONDENCE.) The 15th chapter of the budget of war called for R vote of 2,000,000 of francs, to be applied to the works u'i fortification which it had been proposed to raise round Paris. This project of fortifying Paris has been, as yen are aware, viewed with an extremely jealous eye by a very large portion of its inhabitants, and the increasing unpopu larity of the project had begun to influence a good number of the deputies themselves, in spite of which the Minister of War is supposed so far to persist in its execution that be will borrow funds from the Department of Public Works, should the Chamber refuse any for that especial purpose. The Chamber has, in fact, refused the funds, at the suggestion of the committee appointed to examine the budget, which was that none for the works of fortifi cation should be granted until a law defining the mode of their construction be passed. The vote on this point, as exhibited in yesterday's sitting of the Chamber of Devil. ties, would have been regarded in England as a signal defeat of Ministers, for an immense majority of the mem bers present ruse in favour of the proposition based on ti ,e committee's suggestion, while all the Alinisters, with about a dozen members holding office under them, rose against it. Here, however, this result is not deemed of touch importance, and not only is there no rumour pre valent to-day of any intended change in the Ministry, but that possible consequence of yesterday's vote is not even noticed, except as establishing no positive impediment to the ultimate execution of the ußpopular plan. In reference to this and otkier points connected with the budget of the Department of 'War, a violent personal attack was made on Tb ursday, by Colonel Bricquevillc, against Marshal Soult, whom he accused, among other things, of having been, through ignorance and incapacity, the cause of the loss of the battle of Waterloo, and the turn that things took against Napoleon during the " hundred days." The Marshal listened to the tirade against him apparently wit'a much composure, and did not think pro per to make any reply in his own vindication. It seemed to him, perhaps, that the feeling of disapprobation with which it was evidently received by the Chamber did suffi cient justice to its impropriety. -Not so his non, the Mar quis of Dalmatia, who required reparation of the Colonel, in consequence of which a meeting between the two par ties took place yesterday in the Bois de Boulogne, where they'Cought with swords. You will find in most of the :papers of this day an account of the rencontre, drawn 'up and signed by the seconds, from which it appears ;tisk, although the combat was a spirited one, it has out e e ,l to any effusion of blood. The Colonel is blamed by many persons for having acknowledged the ' sea's right to demand reparation for an attack ei'de ' an the father in the tribune, where the latter and • LiS friends ware at liberty to make a suitable reply; - thitt in this country the laws of honour continue to be so absurdly imperative, that much time will have to elapse before the facility and frequency of duelling undergo any abatement. If people did not think of vindicating their public or private characters but when attacks so serious and violent as the one of Colonel de Bricqueville on Marshal Soult was made, duels would probably he more rarely beard of than they are in this country, but no man entitled :o what you call in England the rank of a gentleman would a j ink of treating an insult amounting to less than that I'.tt,'Ck otherwise than by a challenge ; and nothing is I ore aorennaon than a duel, arising from a mere equivocal pression, or the must trifling and unmeaning incident. ,e practice in which a certain class of persons in your stocratic frame of society so commonly indulge, of sud ly- dropping a man's acquaintance and "cutting" him hout any apparent cause, has proved fatal to more than of your countrymen in France, for there is no offence , which a Frenchmen feels more prone to revenge thee to voided or not noticed by any one with whom he has on terms of intimate acquaintanceship. e frequency of duels, however, and the impossibility lining a challenge without being universally branded nean coward, and avoided as one who is unfit to be ated with, is perhaps the only reason why the po i and refinement of the manners of Frenchmen have so superior to those of all other nations. Not tnding the personal courage they most undoubtedly few men like to he every now and then exposing es on account of any breach of good breeding, and ' • they acquire a habit of avoiding any such breach, intinues justly to distinguish Frenchmen a , the to set of people in the world; vsburg Gazette, since it has ceased to be the of the Court of Russia, favours the world from Turkey of a rather different bearing 'd some few months back. That paper now nt. ae stay of the Russians in Constantinople as nee which ought to he viewed with great .Those who know how much the Augsburg der the influence of the Austrian Govern. Prince Metternich begins to be alarmed t the new alliance between the Au tan seems to be taking. By a letter le of the 22d u ltimo, publish e d azette of the 11th instant, it would Oelof has insisted that the Sultan to the commanders of the forts of • ships of war of any foreign its, which orders, it would ige •.vae refused to the En eadrons which were off of war, on attempting to •as fired upon by the • the schooner was Mem , glish ,and trench corAined 'q 7 'ent'dot , and a Fra.ch schooner througil in B pi* of that , efuea to: Vie The letter d oes not sa y whe Aselb:F d or 'topped by the firing. Ik I , ‘ ported here among the friends t Z . ,:at he is coming back to France. t who i 6 Oporto about a fortnight ago, is tening the departure of the corps of 4,000 •einforce th e arm y of Don Pedro. Tbere z P.,les in this corps, wno, it is under.cood, are man ,:.td by General Romarino. The s ,i.‘ssion of the Chambers is expected to ch, wee k. A gnat number of Deputies of the depart have alrerdy taken their places in the different codiligede 'i f e r next Saturday. Ido nut suppose that any nsi Lion could induce them to stop in Paris longer. Some fluctuations have occ urred to-day in the funds, Awing to local causes of no great importance. The Three per Cents. open ed for the account at 77f. 95c., went up to ! 15c., receded to 78f., and were last done at 78f.: )C•3 the Fivt tier C e nts. have been d one at 1041. 35c. for Z the account. general Solignac nerd Froment, .ow here, has •l who are to About 450 -• be com • next :ents "ALCUTTA. , —so.— - • sill last received are s everal In the fda of Catcutta pap, , ut failures, which, eon iil mites on the causes of the ree, • -ried by them in this aidering the exten t of calamity prodt. • Umuch as it is c ountry, are well worthy of attention, ii. that such o nly by understanding the ori g in of them is one of disasters are to be averte d in future. Annexed ke the the communications alluded to, which appears to ta. most enlarged view of the subject : T!... p ro—i state of things, the destruction of public credit, and the witlidilswat or e0.,Ai," , .. from commercial men, press seriously on our reflection ; and it is our duty to endeavour to trace them to 4..`'eir causes, with a view of the further e vils to suggest measures for the preventiet: that are impending. .... t throw of " The destruction of public credit and the confidence, the elements of commerce, and the ace, to national prosperity, are prob tidy to be ascribed to me sures of our Government, adopted without intentional hostility to the commerce of the country, which have, by a combination of circumstances, necessarily produced the calamities in question. " The measures to which I allude are— " I. THE HALF ➢ATTA AND OTHER. MEASURES OF RE- DUCTION. " The allowances which the army and the servants of Government formerly received afforded prospects and rea sonable promises for the payment of debts which they ne cessarily contricted, and which were pledges to the anent and the trader for debts so contracted. The reduction of their resources has created a vast accumulation of debt, for the discharge of which it is vain to look to the debtor under existing circumstances; these debts form the prin cipal assets of every commercial and trading man, they are the channels into which their means have been distri buted, and which now cannot be recollected. " 11. THE GOVERNMENT AGENCY. This is an arrangement literally in rivalship with private commercial agency, and the decline of credit in this place is coeval with it ; th e d o w n f a ll of comnuicial credit has been proportionate to the advance of Govern ment operations in this branch of business. Deriving considerable profit from these operations, it is only consonant with the nature o f thi ngs , ! b at the Government will use all its ineu-nce, all its power, and all its means, to promote the object of the agency ; and, in pursuance of the end, exercise all its influence, power, and means, to destroy rival operations. " The conducting of the ag enc y by the officers of the Treasury, who arc also officers of the Bank of G Bengal, or more properly, as its operations testify, the Government Bank, is fraught with danger to the ex istence of private agency, whose transactions necessarily pass through these channels of commerce ; for it is expecting more virtue from human nature than human nature has yet excibited, if we look for confidential, faithful, and unbiassed ~-oper ation from such officers, when their interests art- tin the side of Government, the proprietors of a rival ew,;!lish• \'' meat. Itlts %maxim in morals that duty should not be opposed to interest. '6 111. THE EXPORTATION OF BULLION BY THE GOVERN MENT. " We are so remot e f rom anY point of supply, that ttie exportation of bullion should, in particular circumstances, be placed under restrictive regulations. The exportation o f bullion in commerce is the exchange of one description o f commodity for another ; the merchandise scarce for the abundant; but in the cane of our Government, it is the transmisnion of the revenual circulation, for which no equivalent is received ; it is a draining of the tangible wealth of the country, and the exhaustion of her commerce. " The revenue of the Government is paid and received in silver ; the copper coinage of the Government is re fused by itself, and I have it on creditable authority, that at Dacca, so near as it is to the Presidency, the rupee silver is at 28 annas ; the silver collected is exported by the Government, without being returned in any shape what. ever. Thus is silver made scarce, to the desolation of the land and the ruin of the nation ." IV. THE WANT OF A PROTECTING DISPOSITION ON THE PART or GOVERNMENT. " Of this the ca'amitous wants of recent occurrence are melancholy proofs. Was it necessary to refuse the application of the merchants for an advance of three fourths of appraised value on shipments of indigo? Is it necessary in the Government, when purchasing produce in the market, under conwciousness of dominant power, and of the possession of the money-market, to insist upon conditions and to evince an illiberality which the private trader would scorn? Is it necessary to treat with such discredit the notes of the Union Bank and other private securities, excluding them in all transactions with Go vernment ; thus supporting only the circulation of the Beng , l Bar.k to the detriment of every priva'e establishment? "In advertence to these remarks, I would suggest a respectful appeal to the Government touching the alarm ing state of the commerce of the country, in order that means may be adopted to afford such relief as mily be ex pedient or necessary to allay the agitation, and to restore public credit and confidence." COURT OF COMMON PLEAS, JUNE 17, VENAFRA V. JOHNSON, CLERK. This was an action brought by the plaintiff, the cele brated Italian ballet -master, against the defendant, to recover compensation for false imprisor,ment. It appeared that the p'aintiff took part of the defendant's house in Regent-street, who is a respectable clergyman, in which he instructed several private pupils in dancing. In March last plaintiff proposed to give his pupils a ball, and advertised his intention of so doing. The defendant, upon hearing it, wrote to plaintiff, prohibiting him from doing so. Plaintiff got into possession, and was heard to use some threatening language towards the defendant by his servant. The defendant went to Marlborough-street Police-office for the purpose of binding over the plaintiff to keep the peace. A summons being granted, the p trties attended, but the plaintiff not being able to procure the necessary bail a warrant issued, and the plaintiff was taken into custody and confined in a roam in the Police• office. Mr. Sergeant SPANKIE consented to a nonsui; being entered. POLICE INTELLIGENCE. MARYLEBONE. SAVAGE ASSAULT ON A POLICEMAN.— IVilliam Blake was charged wit'i having violently assaulted Edward Shay. ler, a police constable, under the following cis curnstances : Complainant was on duty in Phillips-buildings about half-past twelve o'cl , clc on Sunday night, when he heard a cry of " Murder" and " Police" proceed from the house No. S. The stre,t door being open he went in, and in the back parlour he discovered the prisoner beating his wife, who was lying down on a bed, with her head hang ing over the side, apparently insensible. On the prisoner observing his presence he exclaimed, " What do you want, you policeman ? I'll do for you ;" and immediately caught hold of witness's collar with one hand, and with the other took a shovel from the fireplace, with which he commenced a furious attack on witness's person, inflicting three dreadful gashes on his cheek, and cutting his legs about till he could hardly stand. He, however, managed to extricate himself, and got the assistance of two other constables, with whom he succeeded in conveying the prisoner to the station-house. The prisoner's wife was beaten in a very severe manner, both her eyes being black ened and her face swelled to an immense a . ze. The prisoner was committed in default of bail. Q UEEN-S Q UARE. MARY BOND Ac r ant.—Yesterday Mrs. Mary Bond, who has gained considerable notoriety by breaking publi cans' windows when they refuse to serve her with liquor, was again charged with wilfully breaking one square of glass at the house of Mr. George Moore, the landlord of the Hero of Waterloo, in the Waterloo• road, Lambeth. " Here I am !" exclaimed Mrs. Bond, as soon as she en tered the outer office. " Here I am, Mary Dund, again ; I am as good as my word ; I told Mr. Moore I would have another smash at his windows soon after I got out of prison, and I'm now ready and willing to have another jolification at the tread-mi 1." Some time back Mrs. Bond was committed from this office to Brixton for breaking five squares of glass at Mr. Moore's, which she said she did to see life at the tread- mill, promising at the same time to pay Mr. Moore another visit as soon as she came out. It appeared that o❑ the previous evening Mrs. Bond left her domicile in Gray's Inn-lane, to have what she calls a spree on the Surrey side of the water. Between eleven and twelve o'clock she was smoking her pipe i❑ the Waterton-road, when she wdked up to Mr. Moore's house, and deliberately dashed her hand through one of the squares of glass, exclaiming, " Here I am ; Al.try Bond come again- .. Mr. Moore ran out, when, to his astor7shoient, he saw Mrs. Bond standing outside. He called out for the police, when Mary Bond exclaimed, r t " It's of no use; 1 broke the g l a s s , an d I'll wa lk quietly t t h o e th re e as s n t n at w i" Fty - h s o l u ie se l; ' ;ok w e ll t i h e e ll w s i h n e do d w i s d.On said, d nised to do it, and I'm a woman of my she s word: , , I panin.L.. my name . Bond, and my word is my bond." ! ri , being . plat:ed at the bar Mr. GREG OE IE asked if Moore _r. I.t', L oo im re e n w a a s s in ca a ll t e t d en s d e a v n e c r e i: 31 times by the constable, b u t llig be did n, at answer, and Mr. GREG ORIE sa id th a t, as h e iar against her, she must tie di sc h arge d. did not apps. t Abe would nut mind waiting an hour or mi.,tre,B Bt. irrd appeared very much dis a pp o i nte d at t hi s and declared tha two for him. .0. ............., ANECDOTE G'F Loan CLIVE. When CLIVE was a young .man, a friend called on him one day, and found him sitting with books and a pistol on the table. " Take that pistol," said CLIVE to his vi iter, ~a n d fire it out at the window." He did so at s. Before the smoke subsided, and while the room once. report, , LIVE sprang to his feat, rxclaimirg tome tor site to do yet. I so.. , pped WY. —v head before you came in, yet it did , • • i twice at that pls.!). ran! , s G vi o t p h .. h t a ' s ~.,cae_ e me yet." not go off: li."l3cin has work .. " 1 u Tuesday last TREM Ui ENDO STORM.--‘,. i 4 ,1 s storms Nvo , wpre visited by one of the most tretnern... ~ ''••+ai; ?we have witne m ssed for some tie. The morning w... 7% (-- ' ' ~,t4 sultry, apt about nine o'clock ttta clouds began brigh. - (14 show every . indication of an apprc.a4;nl; to gather, ',at an hour rain came, and in a chit time ; storm. In at. t orrents, mixed with large hailstone', it poured down in ,rd vivid and frequent gashes of -..als of thunder, added to the or r a ther ~ , . ~sir remembrance has fearfulness of a storm, wii!'n , P t i o ' rlo es w:d t i l c iy e' loud N . in . About twelve o'clock the heavy clouds, which llit, alinost scarcely a parallel. Happily it did not: e43nt.:ih_u: !Pug. turned day into night, began to hi - 4c away, the ran, ceased for a time, and the thunder and liglitLioa were no more heard or seen. In the course of the afternoon the rain began to fall again, aad continued fur asveral hours, accom panied by a coil high wind from the north west. All our streets were flooded to an extraordinary extent, ;nd in some of the lower parts of the town it was impossible to pass along without wading to a considerable depth. Some of the channels had the appearance of little rivers, and swept along the streets with amazing rapidity. The rivers by which our city is surrounded soon began to swell. The C blew and the I').etteril rose rapidly, sweeping away every loose thing that lay In their course. All the lower grounds along their banks were speedily flooded, and great damage we Par has been ,done to iii,; ?say crops in the meadow lain.. The most serious damage of which we have yet iteaard, 7.vas sustained at the ' new bridge now being erected acioss the Eden at Warwick. The flood, rushing with Ippetitosity through the arches of the old bridge, drove with irresistible force agc.inet this work, and about 3 o'elt;elt on blown Wednesday up, and s cattere d a b out i n f ra.gments . Sa me idea mo rn i ng i ts ectre frame-work was literally o r t ,:i h r e inn tre in m d e y nd h t e .u f s nr fo m r e c de, w w it h h en wh w ic e h s i t t at s e vas tha rc t ot from itsel ti e iaiet alone attached to the framework wei g h e d u p war d s of s ix . m tons (besides the weight of timber), and was 147 feet in circum'erence ; and that this was driven upwards nf eight feet into the air, with a noise that was he Aril at the die taneP of several miles ! Carlisle 4ournal. . IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, ~TuNE 18. The LORD CHANCYLLOR took his seat on the Woolsack Aon after five o'clock. Lord LYTTLETON presented a petition from the School of Medicine in Birmingham, praying that no alte ration might be made in the Apotheclries Act. The Duke of RICHMOND laid on the table a report from the Turnpike Roads Committee. Mr. C. GRANT, Mr. MACAULAY, and others from the Commons, appeared at the bar, and desired a conference with their Lordships on a subject of the highest impor tance to the possessions of his Nlaj ,, sty in India, and the prosperity of the commerce and revenue of the kingdom. The LORD CHANCELLOR informed them that their Lordships had agr€ed to hold a conference, which would be held forthwith in tie Painted Chamber. The Marquis of Lansdowne, the Marquis of Wellesley, the Lord Privy Seal, the Earl of Roslyn, Lord Amherst, Lord Ellenborough, and the Bishop of Hereford, were then appointed to hold the conference on the part of their Lord ships. Mr. BERNAL and others from the Commons brought up and presented a copy , of tire evidence taken before the Secret Committee that sat last year on the question of renewing the Bank Charter, with the report of the said Committee. The Lords appointed on the conference then went out in procession by the bottom door, having' been informed that the Commons were ready. The Earl of WICKLOW said, as be had been informed, that there had been a measure introduced into the other House of Parliament for a ❑ew mode of paying the clergy of Ireland, he begged leave to give notice that on Tuesday next he would move for certain returns connected with tithes, in order to have an opportunity of expressing his opinion of that measure. Earl GREY suggested Tuesday, which was agreed to. Lord ROLLE was anxious to ask a question of the Noble Earl (Grey) relative to a measure upon which many petitions had been presented to the House ; it w,, whether there was any intention of making any alteration in the Beer Act, from which great evils had resulted, Earl GREY said a Select Committee bad sat upon the subject in the other House, and he considered it rather premature to say any thing on the subject before that Committee made their report, which he believed would be in a few days. The Lor ds of the Conference the❑ appeared at the table, and reported the resolutions as they have already appeared. Lord ELLENBOROUGH wished to know whether the Noble Earl opposite (Grey) had ny objection to lay before the House copies of the correspondence which had taken place between the Board of Control and the East India Directors, relative to the change in the local go vernment of India. At present the House had no pa pers throwing any light upon the subject before it. Earl GREY said that if the Noble Baron had given him notice of his request before hand, he should have been better prepared to answer him. At present, how ever, he did not see any objection to the production of the correspondence, hut . he would inquire into the subject, and would inform the Noble Lord to-morrow. If it met the approbation of the House, he would propose that the resolutions be taken into consideration on Friday se'nnig ht. —Agreed to. POLITICAL UNIONS. The Earl of WINCHILSEA wished to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to bring forward any measures for the suppression of political unions ? He could assure the Noble Earl, in bringing forward the question, he was not actuated by party or factious motives, but by a sincere desire to pro mote that which he felt would contribute so much to the good of the country, In his opinion it was quite impossible to look at these Unions and the manner in which they acted, and not consider their whole conduct inconsistent with the spirit of the constitwion, and calcu lated to beproductive ofgreat mischief through the country. He was convinced that it was the duty of Government to take this question into consideration, for if the subject was delayed, it was probable the Noble Earl would him self be under the necessity of calling on their Lordships to press coercive measures, in order to preserve the peace of this country. Earl GREY felt quite satisfied that the Noble Earl had acted as he had professed without any disposition to anything like a factious object in putting the ques tion he had done—(Hear, hear)—and that he had been only actuated by a sincere desire to promote the public interest and the general security of the empire.— (Hear.) The Noble Earl had been pleased to say it was the interest of the Government also. He could assure him the Government would never neglect its duty in proposing to that or any other House, measures that might be necessary for the public good—(Hear, hear) —but it did not appear to him necessary at pre, , ent to in troduce any new law with respect to Politicll Unions. He had stated to the House the nature of Political Unions. When they were established permanently for the purpose of exercising a control over the proceedings of Par liament, then they were inconsistent with good government ; but he trusted the powers of the law, as they at present existed, were quite suffi cient, without the intmduction of any new one. It d d not appear to him, at the present moment, necessary to introduce any new measures on the subject . , and in answer to the Noqe Earl's question, he begged to say that his Majesty's Gevernment had no such intention. Lord ELDON strongly deprecated those seditious pub lications which, during the last three years had so exten sively prevailed in this country, and which, if the Law Officers had thought it fit to do their duty. no new law would have been now required to put down either them or the Political Unions. —(Hear.) the common law of the land, after the Noble Lord oppo site had declared them to he inconsistent with good government, was quite sufficient to put them down. He would say that it was not only the duty of the Law Offic,rs of the Crown, but it was the duty of those who wished to protect the monarchy of the country, and the constitution and privileges of that House, by the timely application of the common law of the land, to put down such scandalous, seditious, and dangerous publications. He well remembered, and no one could forget, that because a Special Commission had been re fused to be sent to Nottingham at the time of the detes• table crimes which happened there some time ago, in three months afterwards the Bristol riots took place. It was in cons quence, be felt persuaded, of the Nottingham riots not bug properly attended to, that the Bristol conflagrations had disgraced the country. After this he received an account from a gentleman of Bristol of the distribution of those infa mou.ly seditious papers, and that the burnings there were to be ascribed entirely to the circulation which they had gained. Toe Attorney- General however, did not think it worth his while to go down to Nottingham, although he bad been obliged to proceed to Bristol. He now called upon the Noble Lord, while the common law of the country was sufficient, to put down the Political Unions; if not, he would be held amenable for the consequences which might result. Lord MELBOURNE agreed with the Noble Lord that unions, whether political, or formed for the purpose of dictating to their masters respecting trade, were in the highest degree pernicious, tended to the disadvantage of these engaged in them, and were alike inconsistent with the well-being of the country, and the principles of good government ; but the Noble and Learned Lord who hed spoken last, had introduced fresh 'natter on this occa- eion, and referred to those numerous publications of a seditious character which he thought undoubtedly ought to engage the attention of Government. Every one v a s aware that the subject of prosecutions for libels was a question of prudence and expediency ; and no one, he was Siiiep should better know that than Members of the late Administration,' who had instituted, whether propeely or Int, a great number of prosecutions, certainly without muen sncpess. At the same time he roust say that the most effectual measures bad been adopted by his /I,dajesty's Government to powent the pub lication end dietribntion pf such publications,—(Hear, of the most Seditious hear, hear.) 'f ee nersOO. , Whri bud been principally prizsn under a pro aenn4gagveiodieitn f tthheesep,uiliacsab::,:w in secution of the Stamp-office ; and had for a considere time been en. The most greso and seditious of the others had been lately selected for prosecution by those Law Offi cers of the Crown whom the Noble and Learned Lord had charged with a neglePt of duty in that respect. We were bound to consider whether the prosecution of improper publications would not draw public attention to them, and make their authors the object of com passion instead of hatred. The Noble Lord had paid, with respect to the Political Palm, what he had heard him say upon many other occasions—" Why have recourse to new statutes when you have all powerful common law ?" Now the common lc,w was as powerful and efficient when the Nob!e and Learned Lord sat upon the Woolsack, and almost presided in the Councils Of the Cr o wn ? and y et that tioble and Learned L ord had let pass libels as nuthe rous and virulent qs )10 been suff e r e d to pass b y th e present Government. The I ohhle and Learned Earl had and said they would not tose of Nottingham pass with impunity; but the Noble and alsoba Save alluded occurred, to the had liristo not o r t iots t h' en suffered to Learned Earl forgct that those riots occurred within two or three weeks of each other—(Loud cheers)—. that both of the riots arose out of the rejection of the : t4.lorin Bill by their Lordships in October.---(Loud Cheers)—and that a special commission Was sent to Nottingham, as well as Bristol, under which three men were executed.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was true that the Attorney• General went to Bristol, and not to Nottingham ; but the fact of his b-ing their represen tative for that borough was surely a sufficient reason why in decency and common sense, he should not go there under the pre-existing circumstances.—(Hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord might depend upon it that the Government was determined to maintain the supremacy of the law. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY—The Noble Earl had spoken of the good sense of the people putting down political unions. The political unions, however, still existed, and the only proof of good sense they or the people had shown was, a hearty detestation and contempt of his (Lord Grey's) Administration. Lord SEAGRAVE begged to observe that the political unions would long since have been dissolved had it not been for the exertions of Noble Lords opposite, in forming other political associations, under the nature of Conser vative Clubs.—(Cheers and laughter.) Lord ELDON said there would have been no Conser vative Clubs, had there not been political unions. Lord SEAG RAVE said the political unions would now have been dissolved had it not been for the subsequent establishment of Conservative Clubs.—( Hear- ) Lord ELDON defied the Noble Lord to prove that as sertion.—(A laugh.) LOCAL COURTS' BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that in rising to move the order of the day for the House going into Com mittee on this Bill he was sure he need not enter at any length into a subject upon which he had so often spoken. I cannot but congratulate (said his Lordship) the House on so largean attendance on the present occasion. It shows that you are alive to the great importance of this subject —it shows that you are come here to discuss it with that calmness which its magnitude and its interests demand, and gives the most reasonable expectations to those who befriend the measure, that all the principles upon which it is grounded, and all the details of which it consists, will meet with that patient consideration which their great magnitude requires. As long as your Lordships continue to discharge your duty —as long as you persevere in showing yourselves attentive to the interests of your fellow countrymen—as long as you condescend, not merely to entertain but even favourably to meet any proposition for improving the condition of the people, for amending the laws, for providing for the administration of justice, and as long even as you show yourselves willing to yield to the feelings of your fellow -countrymen when they are universally expressed, and whe❑ you can, consistently with your duty and your conscience, yield to them, so long unions may combine and meetings may assemble, and the licentiousness of the press mly be expended, it will all assail your Lordships in vain ; and even those threats, to which my Noble Friend has recently alluded, will fall perfectly harmless before the House of Peers. My Lords, when I first introduced this measure, two years ago, I stated as the groundwork of the plan, and, indeed, the prin cipal inducement I had was, the acknowledged defects in the existing judicatures of the country to afford relief to suitors, generally speaking, upon claims for small amounts. But the expenses of the Court of Westminster, and the expenses and various other defects of the inferior Courts in the country, almost amounted to a denial of justice. He appealed to the experience and observation of the House, whether he had on the first introduction of the Bill, done more than make a little statement of the nature of it, without going into all the details. It was afterwards suggested by a Noble and Learned Friend of his, that the Bill should be referred to the Common Law Commis sioners, in order that they might enter into the considera tion of the subject and examine its various points and bearings. To that proposition he acceded, and those learned persons who undertook that task had presented their opinion. He now begged leave to illustrate from that re port his assertion as to the denial of justice which the present administration of the law inflicted, and be prayed their Lordships' attention to one or two facts. There had been either examined, or communications had been received, from between 370 and 400 persons, whom he would place under two classes—(Hear, hear)—the first being the practitioners of the law, and the other the sub jects, or, more properly speaking, the objects of the law —he meant the objects of relief by all such mea sures as the present.—(Hear.) He was not disposed by any means to believe that the evidence furnished by the lawyers themselves, particularly by that respectable portion of them who practised in the country, was less strong than the evidence of those who it might he supposed would be most affected by the Bill. But the evidence of the solicitors in the country admitted the defects, and stated the necessity for the remedy. There were, however, two or three exceptions; for instance, one eminent practitioner said, that he had broughtthousands of actions, but he had felt no inconvenience, either from delay or expense. That might probably be very true, but it was, nevertheless, true, that the very same person added that other parties were not in the some position, for that the party who lost suffered more inconvenience than was necessary, and paid more than was necessary for a new suit ; the party gaining paid more and gained less than he ought, and also that he found the expense of the local jurisdictions such as required a remedy. The general aspect of the evidence, however, was perfectly in accordance with the present measure.—( Hear, hear.) But there was no exception whatever among the other class, those who were not the practitioners of the law, but the subjects, and as he had said the objects of the law— those who were the prey of the laws; and when he said prey of the laws, lie meant only to say that, under the present system, prey they must necessarily be; but that the system, profitable to neither party, was actually ruinous to one of them. He would give them one or two instances, and then leave them to judge whether he had coloured too highly the picture of our judicial institutions. The Noble and Learned Lord here read some of the answers from the Law Cornmitioioners' Report. The first was from the banking-house at Ledbury ; then from that of Ahergavenny ; from a committee at Leicester; from the Colebrook Dale Iron Company ; and from the retail dealers of Fenchurch-street. .4111 those parties expressed the same opinion, the substance of which W3S, that small debts were often given up rather than payment enforced, on account of the expense of a suit; that debtors, know ing this, often contracted debts which they determined never to pay, and that, consequently, the present system produced a bad moral effect on the country; that as it thus affected matters of trading in one way, it produced also in another way a had effect, for if a man was charged with a debt, which he had either paid or never owed, he was afraid to contest it, but would rather pay 51. or 10/., or even HU. un'u , tly, than go into a court of law success fully to defend hims e lf. T o th ose p ar ti es b e m i g h t a dd the testimony of a learned sergeant, who had presided in one of our small debts' courts, and who said that it was no uncommon thing for parties to sacrifice a claim of Si. or 101., or even 131., and reduce their demand to less than 405., in order to bring their claim into the Small Debt Court. All these facts had made the Commis sioners thus report to his Majesty We believe the complaints made by numbers, whose evidence is stated in the appendix to this report, to be just, that creditors are, from a avant of sufficient means to obtain redress, obliged to abandon their just demands; that debtors are from the same cause, tempted to a dishonest resistance, and that the result is great injury to public morals and to ptivate right." There was no one thing that tended more to alienate the minds of men from the Government, and contributed to weaken their affections for that Go vernment, and to spread amongst them less respect for the laws under which they lived, and according to which they ought to govern their conduct, than finding that these laws did not afford that protection which every sub ject had a right to, as well with regard to his property as his person. All men agreed with him as to the exist ence of the evil, and the necessity of applying a re medy. The question was, what that remedy was? He had never heard but of one plan except this, and the proposition for altering the jurisdiction of the County Courts. One witness, an honourable and active magistrate, proposed to tile all the business of a kind small in amount to the quarter sessions. There 11744 something ao wild and so implacticable in loading the sessions, already overloaded with business, which they performed gratuitously,that he thought he might disp ense w ith tieing more than merely mentioning the plan. The other plan was, the improvement 3f the County Courts. He agreed with the Commissioners, that the defects of these Courts were such, that, as he once heard it said of a par. ;ieuiar ;t were easier t o ma k e a new one t h an to mend this. Their jurisdiction was limited to 405, except in certain cases ; and then the cases, if Lrought there, cou ld h e rpinoved to the superior courts, without any se- c urity being given for debt or pots. Then the system of pleading was nearly as operose and intricate as in the superior courts; but the Stitute of Amendments did not a pply to these County Courts, although to those Courts t hey ought to be applicable, as they must be more needed i n paces where the s4ilf4 l men of the law were not accustomed to practise. Then, again, there might be a d e lay of five months, and the expense of recovering debt of 40s. might he 51., and by the writ of Justices would be considerably more, indepentJently of the expense occasioned by the distance of the residemie of the parties or the witnesses. In some counties they had to travel 50 miles, and the expense of this travelling, and of conti nuing at the town where the Court was held until the suit was determined, was so considerable, that, in the evidence appended to the Report, it had been called " the most terrifying part of the solicitor's bill." Then, again, in the County Courts there were no regular recorded judgments, nor any person to whom the suitor could look with confidence. The Sheriff or Under-Sheriff generally appointed an Assessor; but that Assessor might be changed each year by the Sheriff, and the constitution of the County Court did not necessarily carry with it the means of gaining the respect and con fidence of the suitor. But then it was said that the prac tice of the County Court might be altered, that a regular Judge might be appointed, that he might be directed to visit the different parts of his county, and to go a circuit through it at different times. It was true that all this might be done, and so the Court might be altered in every particular; but then, what would be left of the County Court that it could still properly be called the County Court? It was once administered by the highest man in the county, and the suitors, or Judges, for they were both, were the freeholders at large. It had long ceased to be the Court of the people, and they were now told to change all its process—all the pleadings—all the practice—to change tke site and the sittings of the Court, but to retain its name. Why, if all this were changed, the Court had bet ter be changed altogether ; in short, they had better make a new Court, and then they would not be hampered with old forms and with the effect of vested interests.—(Hear, hear.) He called on them, therefore, to do fairly, openly, and manfully, what they really meant to do in disguise—he called on them to establish the Local Courts. Why, as to the County Courts, it would be impossible to retain even the name, for one great g , .ievance was that the county was sometimes too large and some times too contracted. County Court it could not be, when in some counties, nay, in some parts of counties, there roust be more than one Judge ; as, for instance, in Lancashire and in Yorkshire, in the latter of which there must be not only more than one Judge for a county, but as in the case of the West Riding, more than one for a division of a county. It could no longer be a County Court under such ci - cutnstances, nor could it be so when two or three counties were moulded into one for the esta blishment of a court. It could no longer then retain even the name. The necessity for the Local Court he should show by stating to them the number of small cases that had come before the superior Courts of Westminster. In 1827 there were 93,000 affidavits of debt for sums above 10/. Of these 78,000 were for sums under 100/. ; and of these again 30,000 were for sums between 201. and 301. Nor was that proportion peculiar to the affidavits for debt ; it existed not only in the causes thus begun, but in those that went to trial. In 1830 there were 890 actions tried, and the verdicts in 330 of these were ver dicts for sums under 201., and he once recollected having seen an assize at Lancaster, in which the average of the whole verdicts was 141. odd shillings, or less than 15/., though that was, according to the then state of the law, the lowest suns for which a man could be arrested. That observation, however, need not be confined to the Northern Circuit. On the Oxford Circuit in the years 1829 and 1830, the average number of cases tried was 340, and of that number in 160 there were verdicts fur less than 20/. He knew that these statements might operate with Noble Lords to make them cautious in dealing with sub- jects of such importance; but at the same time, when the subject was well considered, they were at least equally calculated to create in them a leaning to apply a remedy to the evil mentioned in the report—a remedy that should allow men to sue for money that was really due to them, so that such a vast mass of persons should not as now lose more than they gained even in the event of success, that these persons should no longer give up all claim of their rights, because their loss was better to suffer than would be their condition if they brought their claim into Court, and successfully vindicated it; since then, though they might ob tain judgment, and nominally have costs awarded, they would have more to pay than they could possibly hope to receive. In Scotland they had long known and appre ciated the inestimable blessings which these local jurisdic tions conferred. That the advantages there had been of the highest consequence to the whole of society, there could indeed be no doubt. He was, however, equally ready to admit that imperfections had been discovered in that system. If that system, however, were never im proved—if those imperfections were never wiped away, England might still look with envy at the legal establish. ments of Scotland, for without figure, and without exag geration, they were immeasurably superior to her own. The sy stem in Scotland, it might be said, wis capable of being cheapened ; but a suitor could still recover a debt of 121. (if undefended)—.yes, obtain his judgment, and the fruits of thatjudernent, at a cost not exceeding ten shillings. So a debt of 251. could be recovered for fifteen shillings ; and in an acti.n for 1001. there would be a difference of twenty shillings between the taxed costs and the extra costs. Then to show the quantity of business which had been transacted. Exclusive of the small debt courts, which had jurisdiction to the amount of five pounds, for an uver,ge of three years, ending in 1823, there had been yearly, in these courts in Scotland, no less than twenty-two thousand causes. On these there had been 170 appeals, of which not above one half were ever prosecuted. The amount of property, he should observe, here disposed of was no less than half a million. He men tioned these facts in illustration, and he was sure nothing more eras necessary to convince their Lordships or the public of the immense advantages which this system would bestow. Amongst several other matters which Lad of course sprung up in connection with this subject, was one which he admitted was of importance, and that was the question of compensation. The Bill under consideration said nothing of that, and be should not then further touch upon it. The opinion of the Commissioners was, that all the small debt jur,sdictions at present existing should ultimately be done away with ; and he strongly inclined to the same opinion, conceiving they had better merge in the local courts. But he was also of opinion, and he did not doubt those Learned Commissioners would agree in that opinion—that as they could not at first be aware how much business these new Courts might be capable of, they should leave that question an open one. In the discussion of these matters a question had always arisen, which, though it more peculiarly belonged to the other House, yet he could not help touching upon. That was how the Judges of these Courts were to be pa'd, and the ex penses of the new establishments defrayed. There was always one course which, in his opinion, it was the wisest and the best to maintain, if it could be done ; but if they were unable to do this, they must find another. There was no doubt that it was the duty of the Government to provide for the subject— there was no doubt it was the right of the governed to look to the Government for justice at the public expense— that the suitor should not have to pay anything btyond those necessary charges for counsel, witnesses, and attor neys, which no system could remedy. He perfectly agreed in the opinion so often expressed by that great man, Mr. Bentham, that there was no law more foolish none more absurd than that which imposed a tax upon law proceedings. Having thus guarded himself from the chance of being misunderstood, he should mere:), express his regret that any necessity should arise for a system of payment by fees. Lie had already beforehand entered his protest most decidedly against it ; if they had no money to give away for such a purpose, it could not be helped —all they had to do was to get it in the best way they could; but he must express his perfect coincidence of opinion with that celebrated jurist he had just mentioned, that any tax that could be devised was better than a tax on law. There was another general remark he had to make. He trusted this measure would not be thwarted by the selfishness of persons in a particular profession. On a former occasion, when an excellent Bill was introduced and carried through that House, on arriving at the Com mons it was shorn of some of its best clauses. But he trusted it would not be so in this instance. Bishop Burnet says, that when Lord Somers brought forward the Bill in question, it was " found to affect clerks and under officers, whose interests were more considered than those of the nation itself, and several clauses were left out by the Commons in consequence." He hoped this Bill would not be worked down by such means or from such motives as those be had been detailing. The last observation he had to make re ferred to the changes introduced into the Bill since he bad first submitted it to Parliament. When he had first pro_ posed the measure to the other House, it was with a juris diction in some cases of 1001.—in others of 501. This was in the present Bill reduced to 201., in deference to the reasons suggested by the Law Commissioners—that in the first instance it would he more prudent to go on with a small amount, which might hereafter be increased. The Bill did not go at once over the country, bnt gave a power to his Majesty—a wise and expedient one in his opinion —to extend it r to certain districts, The measure was certainly an experimental one, but that in his view was its highest h n his ownoniour.t could be b afterwards modified by expe r i ence , and ts machinery aduet when inore rr complete.p e l c e t t ed e. by No experience,doubtl ad he as it would be in the course of a very few months, it would lay the foundation of a perfect system —one that would secure to his Majesty's subjects their just rights, and leave no pretence for duepirsi,vringsaitdhemthaotf wehheeanp,heisffecNtuoball,e and and Lea universal justiee.—(lear, hear.) Lordrned Friend LYN u PR d had on a former occasion introduced the principle of the Pill to their 4ordehips, and gone also into detail, he bad then declared his readiness to give to the measure his most serious consideration, and bad pledged himself to give it his support if he conscientiously believed that it would conduce to the public good. He had in pur nuance of that pledge, from time to time, tut tention to the Bill, and lie was now compelled he did so with unfeigned regret, that he could it his support in the shape in which it was their Lordships. If he were compelled to conclusion, supported by his own judgment should feel the utmost diffidence in expressing but such was not the case. lie had referred to authorities, and he found his views fully justif concurrence. He had referred to gentlemen of the profession, and, with very few exceptions, that Westminster Hall was decidedly adverse to sure of his Nob!e and Learned Friend. He kb might be said that the profession were interested , deed his Noble Friend had insinuated that a tion of it must be so, and he admitted that many who might be and would be injuriously the Bill ; but in speaking of the great body of sion in Westminster Hall he alluded to none (Hear, hear.) Their Lordships and the coma' would acknowledge, and he even appealed to and Learned Friend to confirm him in the . the legal profession at large had never set it terested motives in opposition to any proposed the law, but had always shown itself ready and forward the general good.—(Hear, hear.) T 1 to be considered was, whether or not the change would be for the good of the country. very we I that with many the cry of cheap la' peditious law was extremely popular, b u t he hoped that neither their Lordships nor the would ever cease to bear in mind the great tion between cheap and expeditious law at and expeditious justice.—(Hear, hear, bee , admitted the great knowledge and learning of respectable gentleman sO.o had recommended ple embodied in the Bill ; but he could not cot himself the fact that one of those Learned Gems , least disapproved of the extent to which it was I push the principle, and that with respect to there were many in the profession equally dial with them who differed from them entirely a s to rableness of making the proposed experiment. himself been the cause of the matter being referred Commissioners, he had felt it to be his duty to retie carefully the body of evidence upon ael , ich their . dation had been made; and he s ,v, and cidedly, that he had found in it 'waling to direct from its first conclusion. He had examined care! evidence of merchants, traders, and those coon, commerce, and he found it throughout marked strong, and indeed a violent, disposition to clot the re-establishment of all the offensive laws svi ever existed against debtors. They were anxit the whole system of the Insolvent Court swel Souse of them went so far—and surely it must smile even from his Noble and Learned Fries. them went so far as to recommend that tribunals established solely for the trial of commercial mat such tribunals should be under the presidency commercial men, and that under those tribunals of law should be abolished.—(Hear and a laugh.) when he found such evidence, and that it relied upon to show that the measure was of by commercial men, he could not but turn nought, and refer again for judgment on the to authority and reason. So much then for of the Commissioners, and the evidence by whit commendations were sustained. He admitted tls the present system there were many inconveniei perhaps hardships ; but surely he need not rent Lordships that imperfection was the fate of all inventions. It had hitherto been found imp' devise any scheme in which there would not be e. manifold inconveniences ; but the question now considered was, not merely what were the inr of the present system, but whether those int were likely to be remedied by the change prof also whether the acknowledged and undisputed nwtv enjoyed were likely to be preserved. At time he had attended to the treatment of it thought he should be able to point out to their how much of the inconvenience complained of obviated without risking the possession of the g vantages the nation at present enjoyed, anti dislocai system under which they were secured. When tt called upon to alter the present system it would first to examine into what they were to part with try whether the experiment ought to be made. was the effect of the present system of English jut What was the character it universally enjoyed what was the effect it produced ? It was ever not only in this country, but throughout the world, pronounced to be pure, impartial, eve suspicion. So completely was that the case, thoroughly rooted was the impression, that peopl once thought that the system which had led to state of things might be destroyed. That was s a t n at u e of security, nsuilieds for ystem it of judicature; wa fu s but d he the an unsullied system of judicature; but he cal Lordships to throw their minds back to other k and to weigh well the consequences of other systems. other countries he need hardly call upon the refer, for it was a universally admitted fact that the system was not equalled in any other country on a the globe.—(Hear.) And what was the cot of this system ? Why, its precision was so mart not more than one case out of every fifteen cot. was brought to trial. A party, on conceiving be claim, consulted with his attorney, who soon him with the actual state of the law, and told bb tively how the fact stood, which generally l e d to a shin of the litigation. The character of the s ysteab fore, was not developed merely in the decisions it , in Court, but also in the cases it prevented from' into Court.—( Hear.) And to what was that effec t ascribed ? Why, to the central system of judicatu re blished—(Hear)—to the habit of constant cal tion with each other by a small number of Ju t the exercise of their duties in the presence of a telligent, and independent Bar, and is the face o f tls munity. These arrangements secured a certainty vision, of purity, of efficiency in the decrees of the o These were among the advantages of the system, agja , were among the chief of th e causes to w hi ch t h o se bases were to be attributed. The Judges, thus art' and thus qualified, made the circuit of the provioc i eg ii 'etle' there they dispensed justice in the same spirit 11 0 0 d/ the same provisions. If error was committed t h : ect id ee an immediate appeal, and that error was at once IA by a short application to a Court of the assembled oe° at Westminster Hall. Such was the system at I: existing, and be h a d th oug h t i t r i g h t to point oot.i to their Lord s hips th e pr i nc i p l es upon wh i e b founded, in order that they might be kept in vies v t ioll the propositio n f or a c h ange was under cons iders He admitted to hi s N o bl e an d L earned Friend !boils' importance of th e su bj ect , an d feel i ng that press o's e 0; he had consulted th e hi g h est k nown autho ritie''slOi., turning to Sir W. Bl ac k stone h e found that the, ja principle for whi c h hi s N o bl e and Learned Friend gro Bill contended was distinctly controverted, anti tb e o 01: principle upon which the present admirable sYt e Olo b t ,'f founded was fully recognised and supported. ( I ' 4 o' l and Learned Lord then read an extract from the P - Oe r ' Sir AV. Blsckstone, in which the advantages of th e , p et er ' system were mainly attributed to its central el jed 1 , 1 which necessarily insured able and just Judges, a tV e strsJ uniformity and certainty in their decisions.) Tbe . ,,,en also pointed out that such results could not be e'r,i s sl o r i from a system in which were a number of P r o c ,eis o Judges, who would almost necessarily in the c_ rk r j time prove much worse educated than those ° ll . l v central system, and likely to imbibe local prejudi' Ll e c h to be suspected of partiality, if not justly open to s hip s O p picion.—(Hear.) But let him remind their Lord' dirt; p if this Bill were adopted they would be proe' e d Ife e e , an inverse order. The system now proposed 11 ,' 0 , 0 0„ formerly acted upon, and it had been found BO ' l3e ce; 9 nient, so injurious to justice, so unsatisfactory to iv ee munity, that it had been abandoned and entirely g of 1 , for the pres e nt f orm of judicature. The repo t, Lords Commissioners hinted at the authority ci f Hale, and his Noble and Learned Friend bad bel e fed o s to seek for strength from the same source, bu t s i o le t ! o s, that eminent lawyer wholly opposed to the prita:_r ers tl .o sought to be revived, and once again put into P f tj ' s , (The Noble and Learned Lord then read an ex tract te d c t io t the writings of Sir M. Hale, in which it V"' d i a l P i ~cll in the reign of Edward I. the system of provinso'S Ce res was tried by the means of County Courts those Coal Baron (very superior Courts as constituted to : co o re , posed by the Bill of his Noble and Learned ,seP 4 a found to be so defective that it was superseded u,_l 4 e lf 8 : 0 1 sent system. The first great reason given for tu .sro ria , : e i, .vas the ignorance of the Judges under tbe . r t , o tf oe s system ; the second reason was the great vallev go il a r ' re i t sions the provincial Judges came to in s ' a , oso st thereby leading to a separate practice for &every bps county ; and the third great reason was, that C nem of any moment was carried in the prof . w . c her e' se remedy by appeal in a case of wrong, yet Edward 0 , was unsatisfactory, and therefore King Edwa . ._ a d e tt' o , by party or factious influence ; that althoug h r b eo f o whole case into his consideration, anti with t,u d e iv i s lea lio / Ids Parliament appointed internal Judges, " a by his formerly in force and had been superseded , 1 ,. . 0uge of, the ignorance of the Judges it created ; 2 . br • L b i o h great variety of decisions upon sitnilar point' " a c trvo n c t a ry ted int b o andheLesay:nteemd Ftrhie'or-edbfoebret?o,74 A iii $1 ; turtle- t o to; and elled to i'f re to kit ) , an )uld netci to be kn ow vas preet°,oi Laps this t come tl):, be 5 i0.... . none“ H ouse r , merit j og, n onse Mg hiveP,ot g iii - w ed to th e heir i ii Rot ustified ILI if 1, "'Pe . s ijro , Elie d„ nen in fr ,o. t ttt i., ri )lions, b e g o• th at un rse to ti' e ot t it thi rd, t 1 , 1 ,, le knee/ jir p t e n , erestedt 9 , f r That C' t a eerLool Iv a , n wa hat theteof nail ,oi iusly affec"ife th e : s n l i tre ly of tliell, teperiii ; no ne ..,? t oidd cou ntrY9 all cos On d to bl'oo tti4u,s e assertiLte t trii. l4 rl t itself fr ° : 0 . 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