The Sun. — London, England, 1863-07-11 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT HOUSE OF LORDS---Last Evening. The LORD CIINNCELLOR took hi seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The T.amworth and Harrington—Bridge Road—Wake field lugs Road—Mistley Thorp Walton Railway—Fries tone Proclamation, Worcester, Dean Forest, and Monmouth Railway—Newhaven Harbour and Ouse Lower Navigation —Madras Irrigation and Canal Company—Bala and Dal gelly Railway—Midland Railway (Bristol lines) —Midland Railway (new lines) —Glasgow and South Western Rail way (additional powers)—Duke of Cleveland and Earl of Sandwich's Estate—Duke of Norfolk Estate—and Leacou field Estate bills wero read a third time and passed. POLAND. Earl RUSSELL said, as he had just learned by tele graph that the reply of the Russian Government to the de spitch of the three Powers would not be sent off until the 14th or 15th, and, consequently, could not reach her Majesty's Government until it was too late for for him to niake a statement, he would on Monday next, in answer to his friend Earl Grey, enter into an explanation of the stite of the negotiations with respect to Po'and. In the meantime he begged to lay upon the table a copy of the despatch containing the six points. OUR RELATI')NS WITH JAPAN. The Earl of CARNA aVON moved for copies of any instructions given by her Majesty's Government to her Majesty's diplomatic servants in Japan or to the officers in command of her Majesty's land or naval forces, to make demands upon the Government of Japan, with the alter native, of immediate, hostilities en the rejection of such demands. The noble earl referred at some length to the events that had brought about the present unfortunate state of affairs, and said he considered the breaking out of hos tilities in that distant part of the world a circumstance of the gravest importance, and he should be glad to hear an ex planation from the noble earl opposite of certain matters which it appeared were about to involve us in war with Japan. He did a , t think the differences as they had come tohisknow ledge were sufficient to justify such a step, and he advised the Government before they committed the country to a long and costly war to reconsider the determination they had arrived at. Before they decided for war he hoped they would not overlook the immense difficulty and expense of sending out troops ; and if it should be decided to carry on hostilities by a combined expedition he must say he for one greatly diapprovcd of such a pro ceeding, because combined expeditions only engendered jealousy, distrust, and irritation. Earl RUSSELL said he thought it unnecessary to enter into defence of the treaties with Japan, because ho thought hey had been assented to and approved of by everybody. When he came into office, he found that assasinations had been committed, andl he felt it his duty to do his best for the protection of British subjects. Mr. Oliver was one of the gentlemen who had been severely wounded in the hand, and he had attended with a deputation at the Foreign-office, and given an account of some very cruel murders that had been committed by the Japanese upon British residents, especially that of Mr. Riehardaon, It oecurred to him that it was his duty to ask for reparation. (Hear.) His noble friend had alluded to the fact that certain of the Japanese were opposed to the residence of British subjects amongst them ; but was that circumstance to be taken as a jus tification of the barbarous murders that had taken place upon the highway ? (Hear.) He felt bound to demand redress—(hear) —but it was not the fact that he had caused war to be declared. He had demanded pecuniary repara tion for the families of the deceased, and no more. The instructions he had sent out he was in daily expectation of receiving the answer to them. The demands made were upon the Government of the Tycoon, which was after all the de facto Government of Japan—but no demand had been made for the punishment of the daimios, or other persons implicated, though it was clear they were well known to the Japanese Government. The person sought to be held pecuniarily liable was the daimio who was known to be sheltering the murderers—and the last ru mours were that the demands of the British Govern ment were about to be complied with. As soon as the actuel reply had been received he would lay the whole despatches upon the table. The trade with the Japanese was large, valuable, and increasing, and it was not true that the general body of the people were prejudiced against the trade. Comments had been made upon the expedition both to Japan and China ; but with respect to the latter, he believed no expedition had ever better answered its purpose —(hear)—and he hoped the former would succeed as well. The policy pursued in China had led to the most friendly relations between the British and Chinese Governments, and to the opening up of a most profitable trade with a na tion of 400,000,000 of . inhabitants. He could not but consi der that as both a just and successful policy—(hear, hear) —and he trusted the course adopted with regard to Japan would be equally beneficial. Earl GREY regretted that the noble earl had declined to produce the despatches asked for. He admitted it was the duty of a Government to stand up for the protection of British subjects where a treaty of trade had been entered into, but it should be remembered, upon the testimony of Sir Rutherford Alcock himself, that that treaty had not been voluntarily entered into by the Japanese, but had been forced upon them against their wishes and inclinations. The noble earl then proceeded to show that the English had been guilty of gross injuries and insults to the Japanese, and to show the animus of the British towards the natives, mentioned the case of an Englishman who had shot a na tive policeman in the execution of his duty. The English man had been prosecuted in the Consular Court, but on conviction was only sentenced to a ridiculously dispropor tionate fine, which was immediately subscribed amongst the English, and the man set at liberty. Further than that, he had proceeded against the British consul for some defect in the judgment, and had actually recovered damages. Such a course of conduct naturally irritated the natives more and more against the foreign settlers, and while the present spirit of hostility remained unpacified, it was hopeless to ex pect to succeed in making commercial treaties. But were coercive measures likely to allay that spirit of irritation ? (Hear, hear.) If coercive measures were to be adopted they would have to be upon a very extensive scale, and it had been stated already that the force at present in Japan was useless without large reinforcements from India. The natives had been purchasing large quantities of European firearms and ammunition, and after a long, bloody, and ex pensive war (the last war with China cost £8,000,000) what would be the result ? Should we annex Japan and hold it ? Certainly not; it was not in our power. What was the alternative ? Another treaty, not worth the paper it was written upon any longer than it suited the orientals to ob serve its provisions. He confessed he had heard with asto nishment the speech of his noble friend (Earl Russell), who in 1857 had made such eloquent orations upon the duty of justice and humanity to the Chine,,e. (Hear.) With respect to China itself he could not understand how the noble earl could derive any consolation or satisfaction from the present state of affairs in that country. (Hear.) As for Japan, all he recommended was that the Government should treat the Japanese with ordinary justice, and he suggested the esta blishment of a system of police, with proper tribunals at the various ports, fer the punishment of British subjects who might be proved to have committed offences against the natives. Let it be also impressed upon the British merchants that they were not to make haste to be rich at the expense of truth and justice to the natives, and then he believed the resources of Japan might be developed for our advantage to an extent not hitherto dreamed of. (Hear.) The Duke of SOMERSET defended the treaty, which, he said, had been obtained years ago, and acted upon by several successive Governments. T he Japanese, so far from having the treaty forced upon them, had proposed to our Government to modify its provisions, thereby clearly acknowledging its legality. Besides, had th e y not sent am bassadors upon the subject of it to th is countr y o nly last year. As for telling merchants not to make haste to get rich, what attention did the noble earl think he would re ceive if he went and preached that doctrine down in the City ? (Hear.) And why, did the noble earl think that he would get more attention in Japan ? As for hostilities, every possible means had been taken to procure compensa tion without resorting to them ; and as the reparation de manded was cliietly due from a well known daimio who re sided upon an island a short distance from the mainland, and carried on a large trade which we could easily intercept or destroy, it was hoped that the claim would be satisfied without the necessity for violent measures. Lord AVODEHOUSE also defended the policy of the British Government; after which, The Earl of CARNARVON withdrew his motion for papers for the present. BRITISH COLUMBIA BOUNDARIES BILL. The bill was read a third time. The Removal of Irish Poor, Marriages Registration (Ire land), Newcastle-upon• Tyne (St. Mary Magdalen's Hos pital), Sir Robert Hitchin's Charity, and Police and im provement (Scotland) Bills were read a second time. The Colonial Lettlers Patent, Poor Law Board Continu ance, and Loan Societies Bills passed through committee. Stamte Law Revision, Public Works (Manufacturing Districts), Thames Embankment (South Side), Militia Bal lots Suspension, and the Walmer Vesting Bills were read a third time. The lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMOlTS—Lasti.Evening. The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The folloWing billd were read a third time :—Carmarthen and Cardigan Railway (No. 1), Law Life Assurance Society, and Sligo and Ballaghaderreen Junction Railway. The following hills were read a second time :—Dublin Metropolitan Railway and Finch Hatton's Estate. CHURCH RATES AMENDMENT BILL. Lord A. CHURCHILL brought in this Lill, which was read a first time, and ordered for second reading to-morrow. BRAZIL. Sir G. GREY intimated, in reply to Mr. S. FITZGERALD, that supply would be on the paper next week, and that the hon. member would then have an opportunity of bringing on his motion with respect to Brazil. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY protested against supply being taken at th e d a y s ittings, when h o n. members on corn mattes, or otherwise engaged, could not attend. BURNING OF QUEEN'S COLLEGE, CORK. Mr. HENNESSY asked for some information with re spect to this event, Sir R. PEEL considered that no advantage would be gained by re-opening the matter. The house Lad already voted £3,000 for the building, and £1,500 f the fittings. Col. FRENCH said, but for the vote of he Government, the city of Cork would have had to bear th 3 w hole expense of erecting the new building and fitting it. Lord FERMOY said the Government deserved great praise for their prompt and liberal conduct in the matter. The Government were in possession of documents testify ing that the accusations made against those entertaining ultramontane doctrines, that they set fire to the college, were utterly and entirely false. The Government ought to let the truth be known. If not the matter could not be al lowed to rest. SUPPLY. The house then went into Committee of Supply. The first vote was £3,760 for the ecclesiastical commis- sioners, which was agreed to. The next votes agreed to were— £lo,9l7, for temporary commissions. £17,015, for compensation and superannuation under the Law Amendment Act. £9,744, for fisheries in Scotland. £23,928, for local dues on shipping under treaties of reel. procity. £2,000, for trusters of manufactures, Scotland. £1,920, for salaries of inspectors of corn returns. £BOO, for adjusting boundaries of counties and parishes in •elaud. £686, for electric telegraph between Malta and Alexan- dria. On the vote £23,455, for the preparations for the celebra • tion of the marriage of H.R.H. the Prince of Wales, Mr. F. PEEL intimated, in reply to Mr. A. Smith, that it was not usual to charge the Civil List of her Majesty with extraordinary expenses of this nature. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that the death of the Queen Dowager, and in one year of , the Duchess of Kent and the Prince Consort, threw some heavy charges on her Majesty, which, being addressed to her liberality and affection, were responded to with ex traordinary liberality. Thus no charge, which would have been justifiable, had been made on the country. (Hear.) Mr. WILLIAMS thought that the revenues of the Duchy of Cornwall should have been charged with this outlay. Sir G. GREY supported the vote. He was satisfied the country would not object to the payment of this sum out of the public purse. (Hear, hear.) Mr. SMITH said he believed there was a balance of £B,OOO in hand, which should have been made a v a il a bl e . Mr. WALPOLE deprecated inquiring into the mode in which her Majesty expended the money voted to her fur the maintenance of her state and dignity. Sir H. 'WILLOUGHBY objected to the opening of the theatres at the public expense. Sir G. GREY said the precedent of her Majesty's mar riage was followed. The vote was agreed to. On the vote of £3,781 to defray certain charges formerly made under the head of civil contingencies, Sir J. JERVOISE deprecated the expenditure on ac count of the vaccination of sheep because of its inutility. He moved that £434 10s, in respect to examining sheep and experimenting thereon be disallowed, Sir R. PEEL explained that the Government had deemed it well to appoint inspectors in various pets of Ireland. After some discussion the vote was withdrawn. THE BRITISH MUSEUM. Mr. WALPOLE then proposed the remainder of these votes. He said the vote for the previous year an*unted to £99,012 ; this year it stood at £90,541, exhibiting a dimi nution of £8,471.Jhe house had already voted£2s,ooo, and he now proposed that the vote of £65,541 should be granted. The right hon. gentleman explained the nature of the vari ous branches of the expenditure. The right hon. gentle man the member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli) had been elected to fill the vacant trusteeship. He hoped that the trustees would take his suggestion that the museum be opened in the evening into their consideration. Mr. LOCKE advocated the opening of the museum on the Sunday after divine service. The working men did not care to go there in the evening after a severe day's work. (Hear, hear.) If it was good for them to visit the museum in the evening, surely it was likewise good for them to behold its glorious contents on the Sabbath. Better to let the working classes visit the museum on the Sunday than to drive them to the public-house. (Hear, hear.) The Kensington Museum was clearly adapted for being opened in the evening; not so all parts of the British Mu seum ; so that he preferred to sea it opened on the Sundays instead. He had made himself well acquainted with the desires of the working classes, and they were decidedly of opinion that the Museum should be thrown open to them during certain hours of the Sabbath. A gentleman did not object to take his friends through his picture gallery on the Sabbath; what harm, then, could accrue to working men visiting the public picture galleries and museums? Mr. MITFORD said there were many difficulties in the way of opening the Museum on Sundays, but he hoped the trustees would well consider the subject. Mr. CONINGHAM objected to the opening of the Museum in the evenings, because he believed - the pictures at South Kensington were materially injured by the gas. Lectures among the various specimens could not fail to be interesting. He regretted there was still no hope of a cata logue, and trusted the magnificent collection would not be separated. Mr. KINNAIRD supported the opening of the Museum in the evening. Mr. WALPOLE said the Museum could not, with safety to the collection, be opened in the evenings. Had the trustees seen their way to a change in this direction, they would have gladly adopted it, but great deterioration to the collection would be the result of the appli cation of gas-light. The books of the Athenwum Club were partly injured by the library being lit with gas. Mr. BOUVERIE—They were destroyed. Mr. WALPOLE enquired if those who favoured the opening of the Museum in the evening had reckoned the expense of lighting and assistants. With respect to open ing the Museum on Sunday, the house had decided against it, and the trustees could not themselves take a step opposed to the principle on which the other public institu tions of the country were conducted. Mr. AYRTON said that the building was particularly adapted for gas-lighting, and that it could be accomplished without danger to the collection. Sir J. TRELAWNy said there should be an end to this competition between public bands and public institutions for pre-eminence on the Sabbath by the opening of the latter. The vote was then agreed to, and the house resumed. The sitting was suspended at a quarter to four. The House resumed at six o'clock. Mr. MASSEY brought up the report of supply. MALTA DOCK. Sir J. HAY gave notice that he should on Monday ask why the pagers with reference to Malta Dock, laid on the table of the house on the 15th June, and recalled for amend ment, was not in the hands of members. (Hear.) LI EUTENANT"fINLING. Col. SYKES gave notice that he would on an early day call the attention of the house to the circumstances attend ing the death of Lieut. Tinling, of her Majesty's ship En counter, at the siege in China. MR. ROBERT REDMOND BELSHAM AND THE CONFEDERATE AUTHORITIES. Mr. BLAKE remarked that, according to the inform& tion that had been furnished to him, a Mr. Belsham, a British subject, went some time since to reside in Alabama, and, in consequence of his ref usa l to serve in the Confede rate army, he was, in the mo n th o f A pril last, dipped three i n tank of water, with a view t o compel him to ser ve, and that on being asked on eac h t i me whether he times would serve or not he repeated his ref usa l, b ut that, on be ing dipped a fourth time, he, in order to save his life, con sented to serve under protest. Th e case was stated to her Majesty's representative at Boston, who directed her Ma jesty's consul at Richmond to inquire into the circumstance. He had further been informed that in consequence Mr. Belsham had been sent to Montgomery, in order that his case might be investigated. Since that time Mr. Belsham's friends had heard nothing of him, and the object he (Mr. Blake) had in view was to find out what had become of him. (Laughter.) His question was whether the remon strance addressed by the British consul at Richmond, by direction of her Majesty's Minister at Washington, to the Confederate authorities, against the compulsion exercised upon Mr. Robert Redmond Belsham, a British subject, at Montgomery, State of Alabama, to force him to serve in the Confederate army, had been attended with effect ; and whether there was any objection to state the sub stance of whatever communications had been received from Lord Lyons on the subject. Mr. LA-YARD said—l beg to state that the case of Mr. Belsham has been brought to the notice of her Majesty's Government, but the hon. gentleman is under a misappre hension when he says the ease was brought before Confe derate authorities under th e direction of Lord Lyons. He bad no official communication whatever with the authori ties of the Confederate States, and nothincs ° , therefore, was dune under his d irectio ns ; but Mr. Moore, the British con sul at Richmond, did make a representation to the Confe derate Government with regard t o the case. Mr. Belsham was, as he states, cr uell y treate d ; indeed, he was exposed t o M r . Belshana's case is torturecomps! Confederate States. Unfortunately, not the only one, several similar cases h av i ng been brought to our notice ; but it is right to stato that they have taken place at a distance from Richmond, and the Confederate authorities have expressed thei r r eg ret t hat they should h ave taken place. (Heir, hear.) A bill was brou g h t b efore the Confederate Assembly which, if passed, will empower the State to enlist f ore i gn ers in the Confederate arm but that bill was rejected, and a counnittee was appointed to inquire into the treatment of British subjecte, imprisoned mostly for refusing to serve in the Confederate army. Mr. Moore made representations to the Confederate Government, in respect of these cases of cruelty and illegality, and it was well known that, in consequence of these representations, the Confederate Government suspended Mr. Moore's exe quatur and ho was obliged to leave the States. Her Ma jesty's Minister eventually sent instructions to Mr. Moore to make strong representations to the Confederate Govern ment, but tiey did not reach him until after he had left the THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 11, 1363 , State. I trust, from the action of her Majesty's Govern ment, such cases will not happen again to British subjects, but with regard to Mr. Belsham I cannot tell where he is. We have heard no more of him since the statement received from Mr. Moore. Mr, GREGORY—I wish to ask the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs two questions, which 1 think he can answer at once. The first is, when he spoke of torture being applied to a British subject, did he mean torture, and that it was employed on the part of the autho rities of the Confederate Government ? (Hear, hear.) The second question is, whether, inasmuch as this is a very grave affair, he will lay all the papers connected with the case on the table of the house ? Mr, LANA ELD—I am afraid that torture, in the staid sense of the word, has been inflicted, and I am bound to say that these acts were committed by persons apparently acting under the general authority of the Confederate Government, but at a distance from tne seat of Go vernment. On Monday next I will state whether the papers can be produced. THE PATRIOTIC FUND. Col. NORTH asked the hon. member for Chichester if he lintended to name a day to move for a select committee to in quire into the management and present condition of th e Patriotic Fund. Mr. J. A. SMITH said he intended to move an address for a Royal commission for ir quiry into the subject instead of a select committee ; but, inasmuch as there was to be a meeting of Royal commissioners on Tuesday next, he should await its result. me with reference to this lamentable war, and I ventured to express my opinions frankly; but never did one word cross my lips of what his Majesty was pleased to say to me, either upon the maritime questions or upon any other of the questions involved, until the 23d of last month, when it was his pleasure I should make them known if 1 thought proper. Perhaps, however, in any event, I would not have divulged all that my hon. friend has stated. Perhaps I could not have adopted the same tone. (Hear, hear.) Still I must say that what fell from my hon. friend is but too true ; and I am desirous of stating and proving to the house—although I do not bring down a notebook for the purpose—that that statement is too true. The question is a very delicate one; but I could have proved, without re ference to books or notes—which under no circumstances I would produce—that the despatch referred to by my hon, and learned friend was not the despatch re f erre d to by the Under-Secretary as the despatch of Novemb er , an d which had been published in the lif oniteur, but a despatch written about the month of February; and that despatch proves that there was too much truth in the rumour w ith respect to it. However, Igo no further into the question, as I con sider the statement of the noble lord of far more importance than any obloquy cast upon me, inasmuch as it concerns the peace and happiness of 10,000,000 of people and holding the u o cart with the Emperor of in t a h bt e ho ue F tli r e w n oar c rt h l a wi n so d auy o l opinion that if the word "recognition" was pronounced in g that word would go forth to the States as a harbinger of ' peace—that the people of the Western States would receive N i s t i w th it j h oy jo , y in , s a t n ea d d th of at br m in a g n i y nt h h a e a r l t s also h o h e w ai e l r con sideration of the question is a thousand times of greater consequence than any contumely or reproach that may be passed upon an individual so humble as myself. Ido feel for the Southern people. I feel that they are a nation—that they are a down-trodden nation—(cheers)—and therefore I want my hon. and learned friend not to give an answer to the question put to him by my hon. and gallant friend with ho has had full time to consider the statement of the noble lord, and the extent to which the Government may be pre pared to go towards coinciding in the well-known views of the Emperor of the French. It will be time enough for my hon. and learned friend to say en Monday whether he will sgcoootia is nor due,not anAdnwotehmerary have before Monday importanteason for hesitation is that the intelligence that will induce the Government to come forward and say that the time has a rrived to acknowledge the Soutb, and put an end to this useless war. I think my hon. and learned friend will exercise both caution and prudence in not giving a hasty answer to the appeal made to him, but that he will wait until Monday for the purpose. (Hear, hear.) Mr. CONINGHAM said no middle course was open to them, and that the question ought not to be allowed to hang over. Mr. Beecher—(laughter) —had told him that the eyes of North America were fixed upon the conduct of England—(renewed laughter)—and that nothing had struck him with more admiration than the course which the working classes of Lancashire had followed throughout the contest. The working classes of Lancashire had been throughout strong supporters of the Federal cause. (Loud cries of " No, no.") He spoke ad visedly. Some 150 meet ings had been held in the manufacturing districts, and at these meetings, with the exception of some ten or twelve, resolutions were carried in favour of the North. In con clusion, the hon. member declared his firm belief that if the hon. member for Sheffield went to a division he would find himself in a disastrous minori y. (Cries of "No, no.") Lord PALIVIERSroN—I desire to make tbis explana tion. I think the hon. member for SunderlandLind say) seemed to imagine that I gave some pl e dge that on Monday her Majesty's Government wou ld state the course which they intended to pursue. Now I said no such thing. Mr. LINDSAY—What J said was that, as the Scotia would be due before Monday, information might reach the country which would induce the Government to alter the views which they seem to hold. Mr. KINGLARE desired to express his earnest hope that the house would not too readily accept the principle laid down by the noble lard at the head of the Govern ment. A question so very novel was involved, that it deserved the most serious attention of the house. The argument of the noble lord against discussion would have been very cogent and applicable before the speech of the hon. member for Sheffield—(hear, hear) —but now that they had become possessed of the subject, it was evident that matters were before them pre-eminently calling for obser tion. (Hear, hear.) Mr. B. OSBORNE—I, for one, never doubted the vera• city of my hon. and learned friend the member for Sheffield. (Hear.) I have known him too long not to know that he is incapable of stating what is not the fact ; but, at the same time, I must be allowed to state that I have not the same confidence as to his discretion—(hear, hear, and laughter)—and, if he will allow me to add, I think he is not acting fairly towards the house in keeping the question hanging over till Monday. I have the fullest confidence, as regards American affairs, in her Majesty's Government. I think they have conducted the American business all through with singular ability, and that they deserve the confidence of the house as regards this question. Ido en treat my hon. and learned friend not to keep the matter hanging over us, but to state at once, "aye" or "nay," whether the question is to be brought before us on Monday evening. (Hear, hear. ) Mr. GREGORY asked, was the hon. and learned mem ber for Sheffield satisfied with what had taken place that evening ? For himself, he must say he had heard nothing that evening to relieve the hon, and learned i member from the charge o f inaccuracy. He considered it most impor tant that the country should know the real truth of the question, for enough had come out of these personal matters to show that the whole ought to be made known. (Hear, hear.) Indeed, e nough had fallen from the hon. member for Sunderland to show that the country did not know the real state of the case. With respect, how ever, to the great political question involved, he agreed it t be a very large m a j ority Was infinitely bett er that the discussion shoulct not be continued ; and for this reasoagainst h he mot ion; n he ad no doubt there not because would Brighton (Mr. Coningham) and all those who of No, no)—for he believed that the hon. of any sy nipathy on the part of the house with the cause of t m h e e m N b o e r r th fo - r - (cries thought with him, cou ld be carried away in a single omni bus. (Laughter and cheers.) Still, he wished to prevent the chance of i ts going forth to the world that the opinion of the House of Commons was against the independence of the Southern Confederacy. Mr. W. E. FORSTER would put it to the house whether it was desirable that the question should be allowed to drop t after the discussio n of a single evening. The argument of the noble lord w as very efficient about its being brought forward at all; b ut nothing had been stated to show that they ought not to come to a conclusion, once the question was fairly before them • .d the common sense o f th e ques tion before them was this, was every section of that house that if anything cou ld conv i nce He thought the Ho useo f C ommons ought to mark i ts sense of the unconstitutional attem p t of t it hav fo e r a n diplomacypoer s o v f its own for carrying on negotiations with foreign the hen. membe r for Sheffield to import a foreign element into the hon. and learned member for Sheffield of the advise course of the d iscussion that evening. Those who ur g ed di sc ussions. L Lord said the hon. memb er not to press his motion to a division w ere , one and all , friends to the South, including the hon. baronet the member for Ayrshire (Sir J. Fergussou ), and their well-know n Confederate Premier. (Laughter.) On bil ityof acceding to the appeal made to him, it was the their n . c uc i the other hand the only persons who urged him to go on were the hon. me mbers for Bradford and Brighton. (No, no, from Mr. Coningham.) Well, at all events, he was urged by the hon. member for Bradford (Mr. Forster), who was a fanatic on the side of the North, to go to a divi sion, in the hope, no doubt, to steal a vote in favour of the North. He believed, however, that his hon. and learned friend was too wise to take advice from Federal zealots, whose anxiety was, not to establish a principle of interna tional law, but to render some slight assistance to the Northern cause in the days of supreme agony, (Hear.) Considering the important intelligence that was travelling across the Atlantic, considering the military operations which had been reported already in the City and in that house, and considering the effect which that news might he thought the hon. and learned gentleman would produce, - until Monday. Mr. wisely in reserving his decision Mr. ROEBTJCA. said that amid the multitude of coun sellors there was safety ; and he would accept the advice of the noble lord who had just sat down, an a d would give hi s answ er on Monday next. He thought r y much better answer might be given before that day ; b ut, as the hon. member for Galway had drawn a distinction between the personal and the political, he was bound, in justice to him self, to say that he would also give an answer to that on Monday. Mr. LAYA RD said, a ft e r what had fallen f rom th e hon. member for Galway and the on. member forinnl he could not remain quite silhent. He would, the first place, put the hon. member for Galway right upon one The hon. memb er intimated that he (Mr. Layard) point . stated that Baron Gros had not left a copy of the despatch to which he had referred. Now, ho had said nothing of the kind. What ho had stated was that a copy of the despatch had not been left with her Majesty's Government, because it was not a confidential despatch, but a public one, having been previously published in the Moniteur. With respect to the remarks of the honourable member for Sunderland, he would remind the house that the hon. and learned member for Sheffield had made two allegations—first, that a communication had been made to her Majesty's Govern ment, earnestly wishing to ascertain whether they were pre pared to unite with the Government of the Emperor in re cognising the independence of the Confederate States . secondly, that a despatch had been communicated to the Go vernment at Washington which had been confidentially se nt by the French Emperor to her Majesty's Govern men t ; and that on that account the Emperor declined making ano th e r proposal to her M a j est y' s Gover nment. The answer to that statement, as given by the Moniteur, was most com plete, and showed that the Emperor had made no asserti • on of the kind. What the Emperor stated was reque st —not that he had requested — Baron Gros to sound her M a j e sty's Government. With regard to th e second statement, the hon. member for Sunderland had put the question on an entirely different issue. The statement made t h e other night was that, in consequence of a breach con fidence, the Emperor of the French would not makeof any further proposals. But if the despatch h a d been sent in Febrnary of last year which her NI • ty' . aies s Government were accused of having communicated, the whole question fell to the ground, because the proposal was not actually made until the month of November. That despatch of which they had heard for the first time tonight had been communicated in February or April; if so, how came it that the proposal should only have been made in November of the same year? The Moniteur had clearly pointed out the despatch of Octo ber as the despatch which, by some misapprehension on the part of the hon. and learned gentleman, had been commu nicated to the American Government. He had stated the other night, most unreservedly, and without equivocation, that no such communication of any despatch whatev r to her Majesty's Government had been made to the Govern ment of the United States, either in the early or latter part of the year. He now distinctly reasserted that. He had gone through every despatch himself ; the chief clerk in the department, and another clerk, had done the same ; so that there had been three minute searches from the be ginning of 1862 up to the present time; and he declared upon his honour that no trace of any such despatch could be found in the Foreign-office. (Hear.) There must have been, therefore, some misapprehension on the part of the hon. and learned gentleman. [Mr. Roebuck—Not the least.] (Laughter.) He would remind the hon. member for Sunderland that he had fallen into a similar mistake last year ; and it was the more surprising that he had not taken warning from what had then occurred. In April last year the hon, member came to this country with a con fidential communication; but he had scarcely arrived when a telegraphic message was received stating that the hon. member was not authorised to make that communication. (Laughter.) What he (Mr. Layard) stated was no secret; the whole mistake arose from the hon, member having as sumed the character of a special envoy. Mr. AYRT ON suggested that, unless they had a dis tinct intimation fr,,m the hon. and learned member for Sheffield that he would proceed with the debate on Mon day, it would be for the convenience of the house to put the adjourned debate down as the last order. Viscount PALMERSTON proposed, in fulfilment of the pledge given to the hon. and learned gentleman, to put down the debate as the first order. But if the hon. and learned gentleman did not proceel with it, the Government would take the Fortifications Bill, and after that the Relief Bill. Mr. TAYLOR protested against the adjournment of the debate, and against such a violation of international law as that proposed by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield in favour of the recognition of a state founded on slavery. The motion for the adjournment was then withdrawn. POLAND. Mr. BEAUMONT inquired when the hon. member for King's County intended to proceed with his motion on Poland. Mr. HENNESSY said he wished the discussion should take place as early as possible, and he hoped the noble lord would give bim Thursday for the purpose. Viscount PALMERSTON said he was desirous of pro ceeding with supply on Thursday; but he would give the hon. member Monday week. Mr, HORSMAN hoped the noble lord would reconsider his decision, and allow the discussion to be taken on Thurs day. After a few words from Sir G. Grey, Mr. Sclater-Booth, and Mr. Collins, who suggested that a series of morning sittings should be given to the discussion of Poland, Mr. H ENNESSY expressed his surprise, after the pledge given by the noble lord on a former occasion, that he should now object to give Thursday for the discussion of the Polish question, The right hon. member for Stroud had a motion on the paper on the same subject, and he trusted the right hon, gentleman would inaugurate the dis cussion. Mr. HORSMAN said he had not put his notice on the paper with any intention of interfering with the hon. mem ber for King's County; but, believing that it was extremely important to have a discussion on Poland, he should on every motion for supply endeavour to raise the discussion, unless the Government gave up Thursday for the purpose. Lord PALMERSTON said the hon. member for King's County accused him of a breach of faith. He denied the accusation. He had promised to give the hon. member a Government night, and he now offered him Monday night week, which was a Government night. The matter then dropped. VANCOUVER'S ISLAND. Mr. FITZ WILLIAM moved for copies of any corres pondence between Mr. Langford and the Colonial Depart ment, relative to alleged abuses in the Government of Van couver's Island ; and between the Colonial Government and Governor Douglas, referring to Mr. Langford's changes ; and with the Government of Vancouver's Island relative to the appointment of Chief Justice Cameron, and the remon strances against such appointment ; and of any petition re cently received from Vancouver's Island praying for the redress of grievances. Mr. C. FORTESCUE was willing to grant the papers if the words "or extracts" were inserted in the motion. He would propose an amendment to that effect. After a few words from Mr. Pender, Mr. Malins, and Mr. Wyld, Lord PALMERSTON hoped the hon. member would assent to the insertion of these words. It was the regular way in which motions for correspondence wherein there might be mixed up personal details were framed. Mr. FITZ WILLIAM assented, The amendment and motion were then withdrawn, on the understanding that the papers would be granted as an unopposed return. THE BOARD OF WORKS. Sir S. M. PETO, in calling attention to the want of efficient control of the public works of the country, and the necessity of reorganising the Board of Works, with a view to remedying the evil, said there were 120 buildings in England and 24 in Scotland, 17 parks, 10 post-offices, 31 probate registries, and £28,000 a year for several offices rented, which paid their owners from 5 to 7 per cent., under the care of the First Commissioner, who ought therefore to be called the First Commissioner of Parks, Palaces, and Public Offices. And yet the real public works of the country were conducted by the departments with which they were severally connected. For instance, the Admiralty took charge of the harbours throughout this country. Now in France, if a dock was to be made, it was referred to the Minister of Public Works, who was guided by the navy department and other officials in drawing up the plans. To illustrate the expensive system adopted in this country, ho might say that the harbour of Keyham cost four times the amount of its original estimate; and that though the first estimate for Alderney harbour was only £650,000, the construction of one pier cost £1,500,000. A like extravagant departure from the original estimate took place in the case of Holyhead harbour, and the story would be repeated until the public works of the country were placed under one Minister, who would be responsible to Parliament. In France, Prussia, Austria, and Italy shch a system prevailed, and the result was that estimates were not exceeded to any considerable extent ; that plans were well considered before they were undertaken ; and that no useless works were constructed, at an extravagant cost. He desired to see a similar system adopted in this country, and he believed that it would result both in economy and efficiency. (Hear, hear.) Mr. B. COCHRANE expressed his conviction that nothing would be done to improve the present system until things became intolerable, when Parliament might inter fere. With regard to the public monuments, it was most desirable that they should be put under the control of some responsible authority, and the metropolis saved from the absurdity of a statue without legs or arms—(laughter)— being erected in Leicester-square. Sir C. WOOD denied that the changes which were made in the original plans for Alderney, Keyham, or Holyhead harbours had been the result of want of fore. sight or extravagance. When first projected, steamers were very small; but, when they assumed the proportions which they now exhibited, the harbours in question had to be increased in a like manner. That, and not the department which had charge of the works, had led to the expense. Sir F. SMITH admitted that any suggestion in regard to public works coming from the hon. baronet the member for Finsbury deserved the utmost attention, but he did not believe that the plan of concentration as proposed would secure either efficiency or economy. He advised them not to attempt to cent! alise too much, or they would get into a difficulty, for they would get men overcharged with work they could not superintend, and men would be placed to conduct works they could not accomplish. Sir J. TRELAWNY supported a more efficient control over public works. Col, FRENCH referred to the state of Holyhead harbour. Mr. COWPER defended the present conduct of public works in this country, and contrasted our system with that adopted in France. He urged that our system was the pre ferable for this country. He thought it was impossible to separate the political from the permanent duties of the First Commissioner of Works. The effect of the separation would be to place the political part in the hands of a head of department who would have neither the time nor the leisure to make himself so conversant with the details of the office as was required from a Parliamentary head who was responsible to Parliament for his own department. It was a mistake to suppose that the estimates were never ex ceeded under the French system ; on the contrary, it was of very frequent occurrence, and must always be so where plans were altered. Latterly we had consulted competent judges for designs for public buildings, instead of leaving it entirely to the First Commissioner of Works, and he in stanced the National Gallery, the Houses of Parliament, and the proposed new Foreign Office, which he thought was a very near approach to the suggestion of the hon. member who had brought forward this subject. The right hon. gentleman referred to the impossibility of forming a suitable council of architects to co-operate with his department, on account of the two great schools into which the profession was divided, viz., the Gothic and the classic. He deprecated the superficial criticism to which the office had been subjected, and showed that none of the great failures which had been pointed at had occurred since he came into power. He had no control whatever over Leices ter-square, otherwise the statue in the centre would have been long since repaired ; and it was equally true that he was in no way responsible for what occurred in St. Paul's. As for the fountains in Trafalgar-square, the fault lay in their original construction ; but he had done much to im prove them. Mr. LINDSAY referred to Alderney harbour, and as serted that, notwithstanding the enormous sums expended there, it was worthless as a harbour of refuge, and question able for the purposes of defence. The subject then dropped. THE ATTACK UPON TRINGANU. Sir J. HAY rose to direct attention to the attack upon Tringanu, the capital of the southern province of the king dom of Siam, which took place on the 1211 November last, and to move for papers. The hon. and gallant officer stated the particulars of the outrage of which he complained, which were shortly these : It appeared that the younger brother of the King of Siam, whose pretensions had been favoured by the Dutch, had taken refuge in Tringanu with the Rajah, his uncle ; and it having been supposed that the ex-Sultan of Lingga was concerned in a conspiracy against his brother, and in injuring the trade between the dis' rict of Benang and Singapore, the merchants of the latter place petitioned the governor, Col. Kavanagh, to demand the surrender of the ex-Sultan from the Rajah of Tringanu. Major Macpherson was deputed to negotiate with the Rajah for the purpose. Capt. Corbett and an English squadron were also despatched to Tringanu. This seemed to be the usual way of proceed ing in the East to unite a political officer with a military or naval one ; the former would be sure to quarrel, and, as a matter of course, the latter would be sure to fight. Well, Major Macpherson waited upon the Rajah, and demanded the surrender of his nephew. The uncle asked Major Mac pherson whether England, at t he bidding of another Power, would give up a political refugee—whereupon Major Mac pherson returned to the squadron, reported that his diplo matic endeavours were at an end, and directed Captain Corbett to bombard Tringanu. It was due to Captain Cor bett to say that he was desirous of doing the smallest pos sible injury to the town ; but, owing to the unsteady posi • tion of the vessels, a portion of the town was set on fire by the shells. He could only say that this outrage was dis graceful to the arms of England, and he hoped the right hon. gentleman would lay copies of all the papers on the table. Sir C. WOOD said he could not complain of the hon. and gallant gentleman for bringing forward this subject ; at the same time he was in difficulty on account of not having re ceived from the Government of India an official statement of the transactions complained of; and it would be hardly just towards the officers implicated to pronounce an opinion upon their conduct until all the facts were in his possession. The origin of the interference of the Governor of Singapore arose in this way :—There was a southern district called Benang which was friendly to the English Government, and between it and Singapore a considerable trade was car ried on. The ox-Sultan of Lingga, who had placed himself under the protection of his uncle, the Rajah of Tringanu, having been charged with getting up plots against his brother, and destroying the trade between Benang and Singapore, Col. Kavanagh at the request of the merchants of Singapore, directed Major Macpherson to obtain redress, and the result was the bombardment of Tringanu. He would give the hon. and gallant officer a list of the papers; and if he thought they were of importance, they would be produced. _ _ _ After a few words from Mr. LIDDELL and Lord NAAS, in condemnation of our present policy in the East, the sub. ject dropped. RAILWAY ACCIDENTS. Mr. BENTINCK, in calling attention to the subject of railway accidents, said a great part of the mischief was at tributable to over-speed. This was the conclusion arrived at by the committee over which he presided five years ago, but he regretted to say that the resolutions then adopted had never been acted on. A most inhuman argument had been used by the President of the Board of Trade against the interference of the house with the present excessive rate of speed, in saying, on a former occasion that, out of many millions of travellers, a few individuals only had been maimed or killed. Mr. Stephenson, a manufacturer of loco motives, said that any person who knew as much as he did of the effect of speed on express trains, and who was killed when travelling thereby, ought to be buried on the cross roads as a confirmed lunatic. (Hear, and laughter.) The hon. member concluded by moving that, in the opinion of the house, it was the duty of the Government to legislate for the better prevention of such accidents. Mr. DUTTON Supported the motion, and agreed with his hen. friend (Mr. Bentinck) that speed was the principal cause of railway accidents. Mr. M. GIBSON did not well understand what his hon. friend wished that the Government should do. Mr. BENTINCK explained that what he desired was, that the Board of Trade should have the power to interfere when the rate of speed travelled on any line was considered not consistent with safety. Mr. M. GIBSON continued—Speed was a relative term, and what might be a safa rate on one railway might be a very unsafe rate on another. Speed depended on the con dition of the permanent way, the rolling stock, the curves, and gradients, and he for one could not consent that the best managed lines should be reduced to the standard of the worst. (Hear, hear.) if interference were at all attempted, it would be necessary to have a sliding scale of speed— (hear) — but that he believed was a task whichcould not be discharged by any Government department. The best security for the public lay in the damages awarded by juries for negligent or reckless management ; but, however that might be, it was satisfactory to know that railway accidents were yearly de creasing. In 1861 there were 56 accidents, attended with 46 deaths and 781 injuries; and in 1862, 52 accidents, with 24 deaths and 537 injuries. But while in the former year the number of passengers was 173,000,000, in the latter they amounted to 183,000,000. In regard to the present year the returns were not completed, but during its first halt there had been only 16 accidents, attended with four deaths and 165 in juries,.which showed a considerable CI ecrease as compared with preceding years. Speed had not been altogether the cause of accidents, many of them having arisen from collision, the ne gligence of the railway servants, and a want of sufficient break power, It was difficult to guard against negligence and no legislation could prevent it more efficaciously than by the present law, which made companies pecuniarily respon sible. The best for the public was to leave the law as it at present stands, leaving it to the directors of railways to transport travellers from point to point in the best and safest manner, subject to their present responsibilities. Mr. HODSON said railway directors would be glad to throw their responsibility on some Government department. Railway directors were most anxious to ensure safety to passengers, but often accidents occurred which were beyond their control. Nine-tenths of the accidents occurred from want of punctuality of the trains, and not from speed. He undertook to say that, where the rolling stock and perma• nent way were in good condition, and the directors and obi• cials did their duty, accidents were extremely infrequent, Mr. H. LEWIS differed in opinion from the hon. mem ber that the frequency of accidents arose from unpunctua lity from one terminus to another. He believed that less accidents arose from fast trains, because more attention was paid to them. He admitted very many accidents occurred from the loss of time at intermediate stations, owing to their having to make up those losses by spasmodic efforts at increased bpeed. He considered the object of the motion was not to relieve, but increase the responsibility of rail way directors. The Government inquiries into accidents several hours after every trace had been removed was a farce, for it was ridiculous to imagine that railway servants would convict themselves of negligence. To save acci• dents, railway directors must be made to feel in their pockets for unpunctuality at intermediate stations. After some remarks from Mr. CONINGHAM and Mr. KINNAIRD, The motion was withdrawn. THE UNION MERCANTILE COMPANY OF PORTUGAL. Mr. AYRTON called the attention of the house to the losses sustained by British subjects in consequence of the acts of the Government of Portugal respecting the Union Mercantile Company, guarnnteed by Royal decree, and by _ _ _ _ _ acts of the legislation of Portugal. He considered that whereas in this case the English public had shown no rash ness in the matter, but had adopted every possible precau tion and had rcted on the good faith of the Portuguese Go vernment, it was a case in which our Government ought to interfere—and he hoped the exertions that had been made to get redress from the Portuguese Government would be continued, and ultimately bocome successful. He asked for the production of papers relative to the subject. Mr. LAYARD said the papers should be produced. It was too complicated a question for him then to enter into details. There could be no doubt those Englishmen who had invested their money in this company had been de ceived by the Portuguose Government, but he hoped they would listen to the recommendations of her Majesty's Go vernment. It was for the interest of the Portuguese Govern• ment to admit the claim of these English capitalists. , THE COURTS OF LAW AT WESTMINSTER, AND IN THE CITY OF LONDON. Mr. M. SMITH called attention to the insufficient ac commodation in the courts of law at Westminster and in the City of London, and asked the First Commissioner of Works whether it was the intention of the Government to introduce any measure for providing courts suited to the increased wants of the country. The hon. and learned gen tleman stated he brought the matter forward on behalf of the suitors and the public; for the present courts were defi cient in ventilation, and in all convenient arrangements. Of the eight courts at Westminster there were only two suitable for the transaction of business —namely, the first Queen's Bench and the first Exchequer. And in the City there were only two courts—the first Queen's Bench and the first Common Pleas—fit for the transaction of business. He did not think the City authorities were fairly open to blame for this deficient accommodation, as it was only in recent years that the practice obtained of bolding double sittings for each of the superior courts. Formerly one judge from each court went into the City to try causes. Mr. MALINS wished to make an appeal on behalf of the courts of equity, which were still more inconvenient. The right hon. gentleman the First Commissioner of Works had visited the court at Lincoln's-inn, and saw the insuffi cient accommodation. There was no place for the juries, and no room to retire to consider their verdict. Two of the Vice-Chancellors sat in sheds that were a disgrace to the country. It became the duty of the Government to provide one large building for all the courts of the country, or, at any rate, to improve the equity courts at Lincoln's-inn. Mr. COLLIER supported the motion, and in doing so said, if a new trial were moved for in the Queen's Bench, the chances were that, owing to the pressure of business ' it could not be heard for 12 months , The judicial strenolliof the country was not sufficient to discharge the duties ;laced on it. Mr. COWPER rose to reply, but having already spoken was prevented from again addressing the house. The SOLICITOR , GENERAL regretted that the bill of last year had been passed, but would prefer to bear the ills that were now suffered than see any plan adopted which permanently separate the courts of law and equity. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER defended the scheme, and declared that the cost then stated would have been the maximum cost of the building. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND an nounced, in reply to Mr. Whiteside, that the consolidation of the Irish statute law had been actually entered upon. After some observations from Mr. C. BENTINCK, the subject dropped, and the house went into committee of sup ply pro forma, but immediately resumed. The Sydney Branch Mint 13111 passed through committee. The Promissory Notes and Bills of Exchange Bill passed through committee. The Alkali Works Regulation Bill as amended was con sidered. The Fisheries (Ireland) Bill was read a third time. The India Stock (Remuneration) Bill was reported. The India Stock Bill passed through committee. The following bills were read a second time : Green wich Hosi ital (Provisions for Widows) Bill; Metropolitan. Main Drainage Extension Bill ; Growing Crops Seizure (Ireland) Bill ; and English Church Services in Wales Bill. The Navy Prize Agents Bill was read a third time and passed. The Nuisances Removal Act (1855) Amendment Bill passed through committee. On the motion of Mr. BRUCE, leave was given to intro duce a bill to confirm certain provisional orders made under an Act of the fifteenth year of her present Majesty, to facili tate arrangements for the relief of turnpike trusts; and also a bill to amend the law relating to the repair of turnpike roads, and to continue certain turnpike Acts in England. Mr. WHALLEY was moving an address on the subject of the Jesuits, when an hon. member suggested that there were not forty members present, and The house stood adjourned at twenty minutes to two. THE PACKET SERVICE. Mr, HEYGATE asked the Secretary To the Treasury, under what contract or engagement her Majesty's mails were now carried between Dover and Calais, and Dover and Ostend respectively ; and when any contract which might have been entered into by her Majesty's Government would be laid upon the table of the house. Mr. F. PEEL replied that these services were at pre sent being carried on under conditions which had been agreed on Letween the Post-office, the railway companies, and the Belgian Government respectively. The contract for the Dover service, embodying those conditions, had been prepared and sent to the railway companies for their examination and approval, and they hai been urged to send a speedy answer. With respect to Belgium, it was proposed to have an additional convention. _ _ RECOGNITION OF THE CONFEDERATE STATES. Sir J . FERGUSSON rose to ask his hon. and learned friend the member for Sheffield a question of which he had given him notice; but as it was necessary, considering the importance of the subject, that he should make some obser vations, with a view of putting himself in order, ho moved the adjournment of the house. He should, however, ab stain from saying a word on the merits of the question, and all he wished to express was a feeling which he believed was shared in by many hon. members on both sides of the house, who concurred in the object the hon, and learned member had in view, that the present moment was one in which the question could not be discussed and a judgment pronounced with advantage to Great Britain or the Southern or Northern States. Since the hon. and learned member brought his resolution before the house, a great change had taken place in the state of the contest between the two re publics in North America. A war, which up to that time had been defensive, now appeared to have assumed the character of one carried on for the purposes of retribution on the part of the South against the North. It must be evident to all who had noticed the intelligence that had reached us within the last few days, that it might fairly be presumed that events greater than any that had hitherto taken place were approaching, and it was not improbable that the solution of the question at issue might be at hand. (Hear, hear.) Under those circumstances, he ventured to submit to the hon. and learned member for Sheffield and the house; that a decision now come to by the house could not express their real feelings upon the question, or operate with any beneficial influence on the question in America. It wag evident that if the debate was resumed on Monday, it would be either negatived unanimously or defeated by a very large majority. (Hear, hear.) In that case, a false impression of the feeling of the House would go forth. (Hear. hear.) The action of the Government would be hindered thereby if they saw their way at an early period to a recognition of the South, and a feeling of irrita tion and deep disappointment would rest on the minds of the people of the Southern States, A few months ago, if recog nition had been generously proposed by this country, it might have been attended by beneficial results, and have stayed the effusion of blood, and have established in the minds of the South a claim of gratitude for the action this country had taken. (Hear, hear.) But now, if the motion should be successful, should the action of the South force a peace on the North, they would not thank us for the action we were taking. If, on the other hand, the expedition of the South into the North should prove a failure, in what position would the house stand ? (Hear, hear.) Therefore whether the motion was successful or unsuccessful, he ven tured to submit that the hon. and learned member could produce no beneficial result, and that it had better be with drawn till a convenient time. (Hear, hear.) The present was not a time for action, but silent observation. With re gard to the personal matters that bad been introduced into the debate, he felt sure the house would give the hon. and learned member an opportunity of explaining. (Hear.) Lord PALMERST ON—Perhaps my hon, and learned friend will allow me to second the request that has been made to him by the hon. and gallant officer, viz., that he would convent to drop the continuance of the debate which stands for Monday. I think the circumstances which have been adverted to by the hon. and gallant officer are of themselves sufficient to show that this is not a mo ment when it is desirable for a discussion of that kind. (Hear, hear.) Events of the utmost importance are now taking place in America. We may hear in a few days of re sults commensurate with their importance, and it is un doubtedly not a proper moment to ask her Majesty's Govern ment to pledge itself with regard to future action. It is not likely, I think, that the house would agree either to the motion of my hon. and learned friend. or the amendments suggested. I think it would be very disadvantageous to the public service that any such resolution should be adopted— (hear, hear)—and therefore the discussion, for any practical results, would have no important effect. I can assure my hon. friend and the house that, whereas I think it is now plainly acknowledged by everybody that the wishes of the Emperor of the French to find a fitting opportunity for that acknowledgment are not altered or changed, and, on the other hand, her Majesty's Government, who at the present mo ment do not see that that fitting opportunity has arisen, are willing at all times to exchange opinions with the French Government, not only on that, but on every other matter of great interest in which we have a common concern. (Hear.) On public and general grounds, therefore, I should urge him to comply with that request. But there is another circum stance, peculiar to the present debate, which I think makes it still more desirable. It is hardly possible that the debate could be resumed without the resumption of the discussion cf what passed between my hon. and learned friend and the hon. member for Sunderland, in their interview with the Emperor of the French. Now it was quite natural that they should have sought that interview. My hon. friend the member for Sunderland, as we well know, has frequently had interviews with the Emperor of the French upon those questions on which he has taken a very active part in this house, viz., questions relating to navigation; and we knew and were perfectly cognisant of those interviews. There fore, it was quite natural that they should see the Emperor of the French, and it was equally so his seeing them, and that they should express their opinions upon American questions. But I humbly venture to submit to them that the question as to what passed in an interview between two private gentlemen, even though they are members of this house, and a foreign sovereign, is not a question fitting to be discussed in this house. (Cheers.) It must naturally lead to explanations on both sides, and that, like all public explanations of private conversa tions, lead not only to unpleasant feelings on both sides, but tend to prevent the Emperor of the French from con- tinuing that courteous and useful reception which he so graciously is pleased to give to all Englishmen of note— (hear, hear)—who come furnished with information that may be useful to the friendly relations of the two countries. It is obvious that that disposition which he has so eminently, and which is so useful, so honourable to him, so useful to the interests of the two countries, must be changed if he feels that what passes in the abandon of private intercourse is to be made the subject of public discussion in the British House of Commons. (Hear.) It is impossible the debate can be resumed without leading in some way or other to the revival of that discussion, and therefore I hope my hon. and learned friend will consent to drop it; and that my hon. friend the member for Sunderland, who has hitherto taken no part in this discussion, would continue that discreet passiveness which he has hitherto preserved, and that he will be content to let the matter rest. No onehas any right to blame him for the part he took in going to the Emperor of the French, and communicating with him as he did, but I think he would feel, as the house must feel, that, with a view not only to the good relations between the two powers, but with a view to the continuance of that access to the person of the Emperor by British subjects of note which it is desirable to maintain, it is much better that nothing should be said further on the subject, either in future dis cussions on this subject, or when my hon. and learned friend the membe: for Sheffield rises to state his acquiescence in the recommendation that has been made to him. (Hear.) Mr. LINDSAY—I have borne in silence the reproaches that have been cast upon me by the organ of her 'Majesty's Government. I have been condemned before I have been heard. I will not go into the subject, but I may be allowed to state one or two matters, The house will be aware that I brought under its consideration, three or four years ago, a resolution that her Majesty would be Pleased to enter into negotiations with the Emperor of the French for the abolition of certain duties. By the request of the Government, I had a long interview with the Em peror and Lord Cowley on that important subject, and I had reason to believe that the Emperor was pleased with the views I placed before him. I have been labouring for three years almost alone upon this great subject ; and his Majesty was pleased to appoint a council to inquire into the subject, and I have reason to hope that he still feels that this great change would be for the advantage of his people as well as for this country. In the course of the discussion, which Lord Cowley did not presume to understand, it was necessary for me to see the Emperor's Ministers very often; but all that ever took place was known both to Lord Cowley and the Ministry in this country. Knowing that I had been in America, it was his Majesty's pleasure to speak to RAILWAY INTELLIGENCE. TRAFFIC RECEIPTS FOR THE WEEK. Miles Opened. Receipts. Railways. ' 18133. 1862. 1863. 1862. Belfast and N. Counties 136 136 2,237 2,206 Belfast and County Down 49 49 688 652 Blyth and Tyne . 28 28 2,022 1,621 Bristol and Exeter l2ll 1211 6,668 6,977 Caledonian Cockermouth& Workington Bl 81 311 284 Cork and Bandon - 20 20 432 :61 Cork, Blackrock, & Passage... 61 61 223 238 Cork and Youghal .. 324 27 516 390 , Cornwall 53/ 53t 1,522 1,3 t 7 Deeside l7 17 390 364 Dublin & Belfast Junction 63 63 1,488 1,254 Dublin and Drogheda 75 63 1,783 1,765 Dublin and Meath Dub. &Wicklow and Wextd 484 484 1,641 1,224 Dundee, Perth, & Aber. Jun 3l 31 1,204 1,134 Edinburgh and Glasgow 1691 169/ 7,878 7.074 Forth & Clyde Junction Furness, &c 5O 59 Glasgow & South-Western Gt. Eastern,Nrik.,&E.Union - 663 61i Great Northern 330 330 Great North of Scotland 5B 58 Gt. Northn. & Westn. (Irel.) 7lt 564 Gt.Southn. & Westn.(lrhid.) 3514 329 Great Western 10564 1004/ Inverness & Aberdeen June 864 734 Irish North-Western 145 145 Irish South-Eastern 25/ 251 Lancashire & Yorkshire 3951 3951 Limerick and Ennis... 24 24 Limerick and Foynes 26. 26 ~ Llanelly 46. 46 Londen & North-Western London and Blackwall 5l 5/ London & South-Western Lond. Brighton, &S. Coast 2804 2114 London, Chatham, & Dover 724 72/ Do. Metropolitan Extension 104 Lond., Tilbury, & Southend .. 42/ Man.,Sheffield,& Lincolnsh .. 239/ Manch. S.Jun.&Altrincham.. 9/. Maryport and Carlisle 2B Metropolitan 34 Midland (incl. N.-Western). 641 3,029 2,353 8,831 7,902 31,012 31,543 27,085 29,979 1,865 2,004 591 480 8,381 8,1:,5 61,385 e 5.542 1,431 1,132 1,772 1,777 37,260 33.822 190 190. 276 138 721 663 103,501 105,761 2,138 2,016 27,321 32,709 21,562 23,431 5,411 5,510 1,085 2,111 1,918 15,776 11,105 1,392 1,116 1,434 1,290 2,094 42,875 40,870 5,393 5,241 1,481 1,663 2,341 2,352 42} 239/ l• • Midland Gt.Westn. of Irind 259 3 / 4 Monkland 7 1 3 /4 Monmouthsh. Rail. & Canal 44 North British, Edin., Perth and Dundee N-Eastern and New. & Car 8941 North London 9 North Staffordshire 254 Oswestry and Newton 5O Rhymney 1 9 3 /4 St. Helen's Canal & Railway 52 Scottish Central Scottish North-Eastern l3B Somerset and Dorset 3 9 3 /4 South Devon South-Eastern ... 306 Stockton and Darlington .... 185 Taff Vale 55 Ulster Vale of Clwyd Vale of Neath 25 . 3 /4 Waterford and Kilkenny 3l Waterford and Limerick 77 West Cornwall 2 7 3 /4 W. Hartlepool H arbr. &Rail W'haven,Cleator,&Egrmnt 7 Whitehaven Junction l2 Whitehaven & Furness Jun 35 FOREIGN AND COLONIAL. Antwerp and Rotterdam 52 614 i 192 i 71i 44 3741 8781 9 252 132 39, 75e 306 183 13,385 11,870 43,975 41,931 3,454 3,402 8,488 7,751 1,077 508 902 833 2,221 1,915 3,968 3,468 5,195 4,629 447 504 3,ti43 3,898 24,772 25,870 Austrian B2B Belgian Eastern Junction 264 Bombay, Baroda, & Cen. India 185} Buffalo and Lake lluron l6lt Detroit and Milwaukie lB5 Dutch Rhenish Eastern of France......... lO7B East Indian Grand Trunk of Canada lO9O Great Indian Peninsula 495 Great Luxembourg 134 Great Southern of India Great Western of Canada 315 Madrid, Saragossa &Alicant 4'd9 Northern of Canada .. .. 94 Northern of France 656, Norwegian Trunk Ottoman Paris, Lyons, & Mediterrn 1491 Paris and Orleans 1340 Pernambuco 774 Royal Danish 69 Sambre and Meuse 6B South Austrian Southern of France 777 Victorian 196 Welland. ...... West Flanders 75 W. and N.W. of France 758 26i 1321 161 i 185 1082 1060 633 t 1(.,90 4371 134 5,533 5,459 1,826 1,820 176 11)7 2,001 1.141 322 345 1,324 1,369 973 878 4,253 3,451 632 430 857 630 853 675 1,361 1,236 30,519 33,544 319 3H 3,148 863 1,914 1,395 4,863 4,312 50,654 48,046 18,584 10,979 1354 1204 8 ,690 7,372 4,746 4,619 592 455 18,275 15,880 2,537 2,057 755 713 315 182 119,950 117,047 58,314 55,714 _ _ 23,453 23,763 11,928 2,891 484 364 1,188 1,048 40,127 38,898 647 X 74 1,336 1,466 COUNTRY MARKETS. • ------ WAKEFIELD—FRIDAY. Millers bought wheat very sparingly. Fresh parcels were plentiful, but rather cheaper ; other sorts, though offered at lower prices, were unsaleable. Beans, oats, and shelling were dull of sale, and prices unaltered. LIVERPOOL—FRIDAY, At this day's market there was a very small attendance, witha most limited demand for wheat, and prices generally receded 2d per cental. Flour very dull, and is per barrel cheaper. Indian corn in fair demand. STAMP ORD-FRIDAY. --- To-day the show of wheat was fully equal to the demand, and late rates were with difficulty supported. Barley at late rates, and almost a nominal business. Oats were a small show. Beans steady. Harvest prospects a-e good. —White wheat, 48s to 5 ; red, 43s to 47s per 36 stone. Barley, malting, 36s to 40s; grinding, 29s to 32s per qr. Oats, 22s to 25s per 24 stone. Beans, old, 41s to —s per qr. ; new, 38s to —s. EXETER-FRIDAY, Wheat, white.. 6s 3d to 68 4d I Barley. 3s 6d to 4s 3d Ditto red. .6s Od to 6s 3d I Oats .........2s 9d to 3s Od Flour, fine, 35s to 36s ; seconds, 34s to —s per sack. CATTLE. _ - 1 Fat beef, p sc., 10s0d to 11s6d Ewes, per lb .... 51d to 6id Pork carcases, 7s Od to 8s Od Wethers, d 0.... , 7d to —d Lamb, p 1b.......—d to d Fat calves, d0...6id to7d. Rough fat, 31d per lb. DUBLIN —FRIDAY. There was a dull trade in wheat to-day, and our quota tions only represent retail transactions. The weather con tinues most favourable. Wheat, white 110 to 12 0 Do., red lO 0 to 11 0 Do., new Barley Oats Do., black — 0 to 0 s. d. s. d. Beans.. . 0 to 0 Bere Rapeseed Oatmeal l2 0 to 15 6 Bakers' flour Indian corn BRISTOL SUGAR-FRIDAY. The market this week has been very inactive, and the few sales made have been at a reduction in price of about Gd per cwt. Full benefit of reduced duty obtained by pur chasing norniman's pure Tea; very choice at 3s 4d. and 4s. " High Standard "at 4s. 4d. (formerly 4s. Bd.), is the strongest and most delicious imported. Agents in every own supply it in uackets. Births. CRESPIGNY.— On the 9th inst,, at Folkstone, the wife o i Lieut.• Colonel Crespigny, of a son, EDYE.—On the 9th inst., at 5, Acre-terrace, Stoke Devon port, the wile of Captain Joseph Edye, Royal Navy, of a son. OSBORNE.—On the Bth inst., at Whittlesford, Cambridge shire, the Lady W. Godolphin Osborne, of a daughter. Woous.—On the 9th inst., at Chatham, the wife of James A. Woods, Esq., 102 d Fusiliers, of a son. Marriages. CASTLE—HINDS.—On the 9th inst, at Pulham, Dorset, Charles Castle, Esq., of W es t gate Tower, Canterbury, to Margaret Emmeline, only daughter of the Rev. J. I'. Hinds, M.A., rector of Fulham. JOHNSTON—POPPLEWELL.—On the 9th inst., at Saint Peter's, Croydon, the Rev. W. Boys Johnston, to Sarah Eliza Lindsay, youngest surviving daughter of Captain Popplewell, R.N,, The Waldrons, Croydon. Deaths. CALEDON.".--On the Bth inst., at her sent, Tyttenhanger, Ilerts, Cath er i ne T iernan, Dowager Countess of Caledon, aged 77. COOKE.--O n the 9th inst., at her residence, 38, 'Woburn square, Louisa, wife of T. P. Cooke, Esq., aged 71. D ANFoRD.—On the Sth inst., suddenly, at Plymouth, Samuel Danford, aged 54. DisTlN.—On the Bth inst., at 9, Great Newport-street, St. Martin's-lane, Mr. John Diann, sen., aged 69. LAIDLER,—On the 9th inst., at 52, Old Bailey, Thomas G. Laidler. aged 30. PRICE.—On. the 9th inst., the Rev. Ralph Price, formerly rector of Lyminge, Tient, aged 35. WARE.—On the 9th inst., at Chard, S omerse t, S amue l Ware, Esq., aged 64. London : Printed and Published by WILLTAM ANDREWS , of N o , 112, Strand, Printer, at THE Suw Once, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the County of Dildcl.le6ex. Saturday, July 11, 180. 1315 777 I : T' Incon Lial his 1 Depot to TOOT secp P. M. Maio! Fre de Cltil Frani P. Lit J. Ste Thi Coos grant Th, impri great rnanu Th, Over when riage surta lull. Sin seen prosy Dep, pr, wl Geot bu Geot Majc Eth% Pat! E. B Fral Lem Geo aq Cha