The Sun. — London, England, 1831-02-09 00:00:00

. ted them sed Mr. ' [notions nett) had turista of , " Ah, about: yol ce." So ed only He had, at be attri peeches ai ) meet th. :a had gr now presiding over the same departmen same eulogy. He considered that that last body of individuals in the country who with the administration of justice. He )mmissions had intimidated the riotous por tntry. He wished to state one fact be down : the p ar t o f th e coun ty o f S ussex ibourin g population was in the worst con free from outrage during the late dis- .E should take up very little of the time of the speech which had occupied two hours to which the lion. Member for Wilt in a speech of equal length, giving word [rot for argument, and defence against .Laughter.) —There seemed to him to be "he present dispute—the lion. Member had brought forward the question—the Wiltshire, who had defended his pro mob, and his character from the charges it —and the Government, w hose cause he 'mild then undertake. The real question whether the House of Commons should advise the Government as to what per to punishment they should select for the I God! were they to imitate the canting ul up addresses to the Crown, dictating rich the prerogative of mercy was to be .)—Had a blacking manufacturer's , he doubted very much that the Member luld submit a proposition to the House ineendiaries.—(Laughter.)—lle trusted be no mincing the matter—that the view the question partially. It really lot they would upheld the Constitution— they would allow this beautiful laud late, or the means of subsisting its inha- That revolution was the object of some 'as proved by their proceedings. He the names; but he knew that the slier for Preston had been adopted by one l east.—(Laughter.) -..-There was one man was Cooper, preferred that of the Mein and called himself Captain Hunt.— )--Why lie did so, he (Sir J. Yorke) could see no reason for it—(Laughter) Le least resemblance in the names. The or an n, or an h in his own name ; Le called himself Captain Hunt, and , nrse, to make himself a Wellington in .me Hon. Member for Preston considered , resentative of all the unrepresented. He Lose people, and had made them look up ' representative. He was also a Radical sat character he had devoted himself, scriptural phrase, fur lighteousness-sake. lut the Hon. Gentleman had many re- He was a ►ery good-looking man, and :her good points since he came into that .%)—But to one thing Ire (Sir J. Yorke) iberty of advising him—that was, not to les ; to use no mere verbiage in ughter)—to confine himself to the facts be true, and not to state facts of which icle.—(Laughter.)—He would also ad speeches should be seldom delivered. Hon. Gentleman would take his me sincerity in which he offered it ; and that the lion. Gentleman would be yet Is with the Aristocracy of that House, the forty-five Tories, under the coin "lt General who was the representative 'erpool. 'H said that nobody could have a better a better manner, than the Hon. Mem- But the [Lou. Member for Preston, led himself t•a lie heard on all ) direct exert hii count Mr. fli Ices were 'ere dist u ❑stantly I, and sc,/% every hod: 7e. At their illeg: td the He spoken or le rank he utmost ith hotel tly dispel .rut he ht comrade be (Mr. tr.)—Tht ill-treatrn, Biting 111 a • existed, 't, the CI gaol en Sr hi paid to rant of r: proper att e prisoner unate he Were wou, ad of Cal ificed. xtremity, eR. CYpi h of the twelve hi [—not the —but tb, ever kne' een inci me was r • strike tl t themsel , he mobs. ners that the rioter 1 been in actuated g-inachin• ed to keel' k would Benett) li )t take th w any nil hine whir Luse he td his col t to what ,hould srs, and rc of d,:sti oeca- the rioter —" You' uppermost peaceful others. ided in kie peopli ipprehem Should would I Then the einselves gs were with attention, was never mow en -e bearing than when he spoke in the .—(Hear.) For his pail, he (Lord oue to interfere against humanity; but the present motion the Honourable Gen .he would not say on a spurious but on a —(llear.)—He was cure that there had of punishment acted upon in the course 4, hut that the greatest pains had been :ase thoroughly. In one case which had the Hen. Member for Preston—that of T—although he did not wish to pre that person—he could not consent to have tray eternal chaplets, or to place him above ammatol or to class hint with the heroes and the espectabli because lie had done that, if he had e horses— , told be classed with odious parricides._ observed ' ' M.) was not unwilling to give to those T called consideration, although they had re- Jorcheste: at consideration of the Judges who tried red that , AW , li : , Ittl ,imen Offic ers of the Crown, and of his Ma rs. Wile. t ; but he did not think that the present eel the mattertidditfe4t, ten i r i n Whi c h ti le House ought to be led away, in ndiarics, and tio,:ta,Alao r er nes% i ',, t , the guilty, to forget what was due to tern parts of e t/ii, N. e "t, I v h , ,,,i rll He 0 look un to the laws for peace and pro ) their work, a nd ifoo btl 4 4 4 bgli ev , • b o a / IA ti t I not y tt ea that there were districts in which 'he labourer , , ~eb 4 , t f ,, p pr L "eased, and where men lay down at night jots but exper` e g e ka t , 'sit, ' , ..en s i oo ?y would net ,d p ollt o ' ts t b e :1' their labour in the morning they should find our destroyed. He feared that there men who O s ' ) / 6 t N, Bear e i t her' cot dea f attrii Yof food, in a country, mistakenly be w.—(Hear, o n, 1 t.,,,,„ tr 4et . et} to , j ao y p 0 i tti 'lly, lo n of the system of the Corn Laws; and m ic e to _,, se zu ,a, a t , 1 4 agricultural produce must enhance the t be ln en a i n n y fie P e o f ; r i / n o I ' l l7l l i A , tl , ao . l 4l r :h st a time, he did not think it prudent to f ilo . fot h oaa t h Aftat ri Yto crimes of such an effect. He Le peeple.. paw Ler„kltt rifles, would only prove an inducement t the deel'e n f the I , t ' 14 4 , r) au i. • If he :might apply to the unhappy °wards any - 0 tli a lays, (4 4 d eeds the language of a classical poet, he ideate as ev er '0 ,0 " , ', ° ,,i tin„ „ a ia, s „ t ., a tta s lis t i i ,P'nArtanii felices eruc sylvls • sure that tlleY ...th oo je fl ,'._. he violence boar'u o, Vh.,+ t„..4a,,t ,alaiurn ignem tu , ' . . b , O tr ''er, t tgol e , o ,_ m in ~ ,a 9 , interfice messes : Able neigh .b P or . er . ta te r , Ines moltre Inpennem : c hiC , /4,, 'lt (Ali t „, (Penit tratia laudis " the peace % clo p I t o a -tf, re ou ght no ' t , le Ilouae might be disposed to make for ,rtful mans, o ot Io ~ e t, with to confer n . m em ber t s l ay ay.r. th e fi _ r impunity upon crime, and , b o st , ( eio,, . ti e tv , o _, rst prerogative of the Crown, which persona. ry i1,. /1 , oy i - cd..Eunl vote against the motion. nature to ea r far 4Na °th - , -Ey 0 t __([ ~,' 0r it, rs, e truth Pptsed the motion, and bore tea r any ac to diAll,,,ttti t , 'I , to ti "of the statements of the preceding fence in eo n t,,0 rh o ok rt r) -rk uf ''e latelclonduct of the peasantry, and the man—but w" - oi" I , t, l ite i the He deprecated the interference of louse a e 111 ';°::c . - o t t j I ti t l l ill tA, tl4 , 1 1 + 1 1 e t .4(lnainistration of justice, which belonged proofs, it v , of ~i tt kti. •'Y o u , L 0 the execu.' r a stateinelP ,I , , , 'l , l e • got not Live government. Above all rter oer y p s N i of ie to step in between the King and down, 3i , „ ~,, ~4 , tt t 4 L . reY---hia dearest prerogative. Ile gave ns leaving t" of il) 01,itt/, iket:Attinal'il‘.,jaie, sty's Ministers for having rested „ ,i, ,,..4a rti d of ' cossai_ i . ti a time of great peril ard diffi. ill that some 0 11 ' ~,li t / V ili, ll t iellt . eib lire r u _g down to that ilouse for increased Preston otta e% 4 p t , 41 1 1 1' ' , cuoS 1,0 , °b AT, which they would have had a expected tt" o' v t,l ~ Ni, -4p/ I county is , 1 0 Ph : •Ivat' NEV e.,,,,,.. t. i n , ltte t pre4lo rte e,, kolak, t int kl ion,. A - ‘-irc.it, ERAL said--I rise to make a k,1410,t individuquiestion has been addressed to me J j aritY W 35 the e r j'S4 who was concerned in a riot, in labourers in ° n ail °P i I,:l's th, vi°lent at'tack was made upon a Magistrate. trY boti t what!4 I , 'Po t i ti of the gen t e ( q ,-, eeo ", Wer .I • labourer s w ee 04 li te ,21. 1 , tt. n ot 0... , L aid before us, we found that 0 0 it A , Pr o Ate " I Y a riot, but great personal violence n a hostile o w I ~qr , er! 1 . rt ntl to to ~,,, v e . Y do j o a special constable, who was at the ould exPee t eg lir t j 4 t ,,,,''t '°trie u "Argi n n. 1 • n tive t to _ b us duty. It was the duty of ), person' 0./ 0 2 , t 4. , fi rmne kiJatect the !Magistrates. It was ne tp.it:..-hread 0c bpi t il-1 l ' l 8 1.11 01 ..: , .t0 ~t4wielader of " ti to those who might be too back- Iroxicattatiog, I.o a ,'‘tic;Ooln ti r in rvaN 5 0 mob made a ferocious attack " re s ~ _ ric o. , " ~,,,51, we hi_nlawfully detaining him. The persons not 0 t . s 6 e g u , . t t. , 110.°,.. Mernhe r for Preston had his infor small vd i goof e ) t tta! t was ' likely to r II 11 0 4 , t be very disinterested in their trace ei . t h e o l e s fof I N a gt,s 5, ~, wliplntriti.es that the Magistrate had, on ieir tratle,„ e teti,d, k ,IN 5 0, th o ,ad beet , et' ta r, e.,:ti te a eel , sp ee i al " Land at the time that he and o t 40 9 r ,, , ,,, 4 'il k , Y vi ol ._ constable, were surrounded by an pod cite) to t j dit' A, titt,'" r ner n " It mob-- ( lie tr)--one of whom !lung t sentenc Is . 1 , it, ” i W t.,, 44 1 5 '., ° '11t, 5 , " ° nee, but twice, 0 „ pel l ' fr otli 0 , 1 .4 t L qvi y . , 'ruck the s . h-e. The hammer, in the h; 14 lay hi nio, off his special constable with so much his removal ed e t, o der I,t . Olf, 4,, eedi n. horse, and he fell over a wall, r, had re ha d , a s 'to, ' l lte ' : t with ga _ n , d insensible I thought the man iote, a mbit r oio I,lm ply optital crunch ferocity ought to be put n his e mber), or po o r ..! I,i +o, the the riot. me, although he had at first - been ac selectel ' ;fe % o liii A'ati science a trial, the gentleman en ,riend (the 0 ,0 :it ib i e4 , . the Prisonertold the Lt I,i . 11 44 . _'," AAte ha that he was not prepared se j a ho w ar! r o . or e .,, t ij j, :t ~i ,,b i t the f ac ," the capital charge ; to which I lle s ' , ll.3 lP ' t e Pa,:ns, , td 0 " were t h t ictmehnet same, whatever charge , at le_a_s r t ee t a t, ~.b , ,e i , a; i tt 1 .14 , 14 , cti * ie ll , ethe r i T i l l i e t i l n le i m . • The evidence was one and quite '', the r DP, 4 h. °4 62 0 But, on, Oa. , r oll , fo r ti k , . otl Oy u! , 0w0 „ ... for riot . or for the in dol.) tio ! or , 4,,re1, At t r o °:int et:on l nd i zint i e c a . , , to that the t g l e le n r t e lem in a i n gh m t y b b e rie n f o . ' tiered that there have be wneli t ' l e i T c oo d s : e ti of e iii l4 : lll l4 e e :f re tri a Z take is iog 1 ,1 0 1,21(1, *s orted that with all the practice e s n w s l7ch e se o f ( ley .th al i tt t l , t a of Of th to f or ti ie purpose of inflaming ; agre; w i _ o ,,, o, f o et t 4 b.l i e il c ,'"• - _ 4 ( i ll e e ar p _ eo ple, ‘ Only three have been com oi ton , '` ...Lo ole . a . CI `-' .. e I tto ,' hear.) / am - made sure that the Ho that till 7,,at1Y 0 10 tt ae ° A 1., h411 40 ~ ..5 , „0 , 9 re „ t e j kati o ,, eeiv eo acc ordin hi s statement respecting to "` 4o , e ohne', I , o ‘t h a y i f , h ot i . g to the information which nit , e , bet' d' 1 , 1 , 4 4 o er 'ltch a can assure him that Ido plant y try, a ror 4t l L ttl , orroci. etrcumstance s.,,,,,,,,a‘vle.hineriii r t e li c e ol l le i c o t n ionof any the cot° ' o pal' d tngal 4;;,sta,en hose ~__ as that of which he t have 0 0 P I , tt a :lta .noled . ' 8 " t Gentle- The" girto eolPt11)40 it tl i ett ': iltil it il t. ;ei n t,. .12,1trenpciatioillIF.tthiele t 0 which p i rofessiona . l persons ereirasf-itreJ, , oe s n getting up the ,Is kt 1 t he . pf orinat n : unetin g them and that Ny'ses baritlefsthwe those P A st i ol li ' l 'i n g ther e s re , n 411 j 5/e potiti L°ll OS that. The d any such leactdioiong, 5 wd i e jf iroo ll I ; tit , l4 •l l:l4t ß ii i viietto M th s, e er a e cc m ou od n e t thirl is it afe r4 ' 4 ''' V t 'eot . 'I be en said el.' There is another c t oeis h t de aot t ,,.. b ee ton with A both in and out of doors, ase t he p ~! A p 0 ,AO .1 1 4 At,„_ n which the t . 1 _ ha de , t 0; ''',, . ' t oh ,‘ , s o f Mentioned i 0 - name of a Learned i v , tne . ~ p i 0 pi arty kinda manner that I think no a%,, 2 e ecoi( C i... , certainly none such as those l ie cool f tay„,c the h o o ° lo r have ,and justified._ st give fi e d i; i ...._ m •-.11. tt _ I 44 a l , t ...,, pec . . . 4 1 00. All'ejrnbeer said l ad /1 0 tr full credit for the sentiment, that he intended no offence to any Member of this House; but, to put the most fa vourable conclusion upon his words, it could scarcely be imagined that he intended to deal tenderly with the character of the learned and eminent person to whom I have alluded. Setting aside, however, the language he made use of in this House, what shall we say to that which he is understood to have uttered in another place, and to a very different assembly? What are we to say of his there announcing that he intended to impeach that Learned Judge--applying every term lie could use to heap odium and indignation upon the head of one who was absent—of one dignified, and from his situation incapable of defence —of one respecting whose conduct he had made no inquiry; but upon the possibility of his intended inquiries turning out as be anticipated—upon that bare possibility he de nounced the Learned Judge, and intimated his intention of moving his impeachment? I will put it to the House whether that has not bee❑ a departure from that candour, with the large professions of which he set out. In all my experience of public life, 1 never encountered—indeed there never was a charge more u nfourided. Unless Judges were to be invested with an infallibility which, I am sure, the Hon. Gentlem-in would be little disposed to attribute to them-=how can any man with a show of reason expect them to be ac quainted with farts of which they, of necessity, could have no knowledge ? What was there o❑ the trial to make the guilt of Isaac Looker at all doubtful ? On the trial, when the father was found guilty, no sort came forward— there was nothing to raise a question, but what related to the testimony given for the purpose of negativing the asser tion of the handwriting. I really do not see that the specu lation as to the handwriting ought to have much weight. He was accused of having written a threatening letter ; and if that man had bee❑ brought before the Hon. Member, as he was before the Learned Judge—it being at that time not known that he had a son at all—could he have divined that the letter in question was the production of the son ? and, finally, even when it was suggested that the son, and not the father, was the guilty person, the question naturally suggested itself, why was not the son brought up as a wit ness on the first trial ? I was aware of the circumstance of there being some intention of setting up the son as the author of the letter; for, as prosecuting on behalf of the Crown, I was given to understand that some such defence would be brought forward ; but the Learned Judge had no means of becoming acquainted with the fact ; and then it is most important that the House should bear in mind that the guilt of the son by no means established the innocence of the father. There was a great chance that both of them might have been concerned in the offences then so com mon in that part of the country, and specially charged in the indictment. What in this case does the Learned Judge do? he requested the other Judge to try the son, and with a view to that trial, bills were sect to the Grand Jury against both, and they found them against the father, and ignored them as against the son ; the son then came forward and swore that he was the author of the letter; he was severely and minutely cross-examined. Mr. Jus tice Parke was perfectly satisfied that he spoke the truth; so were the Jury; and the father was acquitted of that specific charge, and under the form of the indictment as then preferred. Now, I want to know what can secure counts against the possibility of error; if there be means of completely so securing them, I should gladly learn what they are, for I believe to most men they will prove per fect novelty. In the present state of things, I think I am entitled to ask, could there have been any means used more calculated to elicit the truth than those which were adopted by time Learned Judge in question, and whose name has been most improperly mentioned with reference to those transactions.—(Hear hear.) I confess I cannot look at the conduct of the younger Looker with as much satisfaction as the Hon. Mem ber for Preston seems to regard it. What do we find him doing ? Writing no less than three threatening letters of a most sanguinary kind, and we find him so writing them as to bring his father into extreme peril ; then, when his father was likely to be transported for the offence of his son, the son comes forward and says he is the guilty per son. This is scarcely so heroic as if being not guilty— as if being not conscious to himself of any crime—he had exposed himself to all the consequences of that crime with which his father stood charged—then, indeed, he might have some claim to be ranked with those heroes of anti. quity whose doubtful virtue we know not whether most to admire or to censure.—(Bear, hear.) Having now gone through these, three cases, nothing remains for me but a few general observations. There were tried under the Special Commissions as many as 1,000 persons, of whom 700 were in Hampshire and Wiltshire. This number were drafted off from much larger numbers, after re peated selections from much greater still, of men who had committed acts of the grossest outrage. Exclu sive of the ether grounds upon which the selections were made, the accusers were in many cases un willing to come forward—they were glad to be spared the trouble of prosecuting—the Magistrates were aware that, in some instances, the parties were seduced into the crimes they had committed—the Grand Juries, in some cases, threw out the bills—ita other cases the Counsel abstained from proceeding ; and I can further state, that in all cases Counsel for the Crown uniformly brought forward every circumstance favourable to the pri soners, and the lenity of tke Judges spared many of them. In my opinion the Judges were much more remarkable fir lenity than for the reverse. I am aware that my opinion upon such a subject can be of no value ; but I think a consideration of the circumstances to which I adverted, and the conduct of the Judges in relation to them, will be held by all impartial men fully to justify the opinion I have ventured to express.—(Hear.) I beg the House to remark the situation in which we were placed not three months ago. Every Member was hearing from his relation& and his friends, or if not from those, at least from the persons placed in the care and custody of their property, that neither life nor property was safe for a single hour; but what was the change wrought by the simple announcement that the law was to take its course? The mischief ceased, with a single exception, to which I shall advert presently. By that announcement outrages were put an end to. What was the state of things? Thrashing machines were broken in every quarter of the country—property and life ceased to possess any protection. The mob had taken the law into their own hands ; they proceeded from one crime to another ; but a firm execution of the laws—indeed the bare announcement of such an intention, appeared to put an end to the whole system. One hundred men were capitally convicted at Winchester, every one of whotn, if the law were allowed to take its full course, might justly have been executed. It is the idlest folly to talk of the Government being under the obligation to recur to first principles on an emergency like the lute one; the obligation they were under, and that which they properly discharged, was to use the powers with which the law and Constitution in vested them. Seine thought proper to express great regards for humanity ; but, be it recollected, that there wa something of humanity to be exercised towards others, be sides the men whose cause the Honourable Member for Preston had been advocating. It was one of the greatest errors into which any one could fall, to suppose that the persons tried and found guilty were poor agricultural labourers—poor starving creatures. What were the facts ? A person named Cooper came to the scene of his offences from a neighbouring county—he had been, it appeared, a decayed publican, and recently serving as hostler—he, therefore, was in no respect affected by the state of agri cultural distress; from some mysterious motive, the na ture of which had never been distinctly ascertained, lie proceeded in his course of outrage and crime. He hal looed the mob against all sorts of machinery, arid of pro perty ; and at the head of a mob—that tremendous wea pon—proceeded to rob by levying contributions, intimi dating every individual whom they encountered—going frequently in the dead of night, terrifying women and children, and spreading a system of horror which the country could no longer endure to proceed with impunity; and even when they did go to lone houses, where the guardian of the property happened to be present, there could be no doubt that if he had resisted their at tacks, even to the length of taking away life, the act would have been perfectly justifiable ; fur there was not a lawyer in the country who could doubt that the offences of the mob were of a capital nature. From bad to worse those proceedings went on, till the Government could no longer look on without the deepest culpability. So much for Cooper—the other per son was altogether as much the reverse of an agricultural, ant as far from being affected by the distresses of the times as was Cooper. He was a carpenter in th e rece i pt o f 30s. a week—(Hear} —and he it was who st ruc k d own with a sledge hammer the arm that was raised by a ser vant in defence of his master—an arm that, I believe, was broken by the blow. Those, then, and the others that were tried, were cases selected from a great number, and not one was tried that ought to be spared ; and all the time the papers were teeming with appeals to Government to spare the lives of those who had not themselves scrupled to commit crimes which the law had declared to be capital, is there no mercy but for criminals—when once it was an nounced that life might be forfeited for the offences com mitted, they ceased ; but then came the demand to spare the incendiaries. It was said that they ought to be spared, because they were only incendiaries. Then a set of re solutions were prepared, abounding in as much spurious sentiment as ever distinguished such compositions, ex pressing a hope that Government would not proceed, and stating, that as the offenders had only set fire to some pro perty, they ought not to be punished in the Dame manner and to the same extent as though they had been guilty of offences against life, or against the per sonal safety of individuals.—(Hear.)—l must be per mitted to say, that if ever an instance of cant was brought under the consideration of the House, those resolutions must be looked on as affording it. I, however, was glad to perceive that the Hon. Member for Preston did not degrade himself by pretending to this extravagant degree of feeling; neither shall I prolong the debate by dwelling any longer upon that or upon any other topic connected with those unhappy events ; it is perfectly evident to the House that a great and alarming evil required to be put down ; there was a great public evil, and the Government boldly faced it; it woi put down without military force ; without any extraordinary enactment disfiguring the Con stitution ; and without anything beyond the lawful exer eise of constitutional authority. I cannot, then, refrain From congratulating the Government—l cannot even re frail from congratulating myself upon the bumble part I took in the proceediage.—(The Honourable and Gentleman was frequent . ) , and cordially cheered during the his speech.) Mr. SANDFORD defended the conduct of the Yeo- manry Cavalr y of the County of Somerset, saying that they were ready in the event of any irritation or discon. tent manifesting themselves. As to the Hon. Member for Preston's motion, it should receive from him a most de cided negative. Mr. HUME rose for the purpose of requesting th e _ _ Hon. Member for Preston to withdraw his (Cries of " No, no, question question, divide, divide.") —He could have no objection to the House coming to a, division ; his only wish was to save trouble. 11e must be allowed to say, that his Hon. Friend had not been fairly dealt with by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. The Right Hon. Secretary seemed to impute to his Hon, Friend a tone of justification with respect w the unhappy and criminal persons who had been tried under the Spe cial Commission. His Hon. Friend had only spoken of them as misguided individuals. It was no matter of sur prise those poor persons should have strange and erroneous notions on the subject of machinery, when they were en tertained by Members of that House, and by others who ought to have known better; but all that his Hon. Friend (lid was to speak of them as he himself had already de scribed. Still he thought that the best course would be for his Hon. Friend to withdraw his motion. However, if' they did come to a division, he should support his Hon. Friend. Mr. PORTMAN begged to say a few words. He re joiced that the Hon. Member for Preston had disabused the public mind on a subject of considerable importance— namely, the sanction of those lawless proceedings, or ens tiler the instigation of them by the Hon. Member. A person went about the country representing himself as Mr. Hunt's corporal or serjeant, and thence it became uni versally believed that he approved of the lawless proceed ings referred to. He concluded by denying that the far mers were at the bottom of the offences mentioned, or were in any degree concerned in them, beyond what other classes in the country were. Mr. HUNT, in reply, repeated his disclaimer of any ap. proval, still less instigation, of the lawless proceedings throughout the country. The persons who believed in his connection with them were persons who believed in witch craft. He denied that he had ever, either by accident or design, met the mobs who were concerned in those enter. prizes against the laws. He challenged any Hon. Mem ber to show that he had had the remotest connection with them. Further, there was not one assertion which he made in his opening speech which it was not in his power to verify and establish at the bar of that House. He had received information from the best authority that the pri soners in gaol had been entrapped into making confidential communications to their legal advisers, in the presence of the gaolers. He had never called those riots revolu- • tionary; he had never said that there was any disaffec tion ; he had merely said there was much dissatisfaction from extreme distress and want of food. A Gallant Ad miral had been rather personal with him, and had talked a little too much about his blacking, while he would not retort by speaking of the Gallant Admiral's bilge-water.-- (A laugh.) The Gallant Admiral, who seldom, as Le un derstood, rose without amusing the House, had bee❑ flat tering enough to speak of him (Mr. Hunt) as a good looking man; he regretted that he could nut return the compliment.—(Great laughter.) As to the riots, he had never spoken of them as otherwise than disgraceful ; but there was nothing revolutionary—there wan not a shot fired. He would call upon those who said other wise to state when and where he had given the slightest sanction, or any countenance whatever to any such proceedings. The Honourable Member then proceed to charge upon those who kept wages low the whole of the disturbances. He commented upon the evidence in the case of Isaac Looker, observing upon the ignorance of the Jurors by whom he was tried ; one of whom said that he concurred in a verdict of guilty merely because the Judge said it ought to be so. He de nied, with respect to the affair at Overton, that he came forward then for the purpose of settling the wages. He did no such thing ; his only object was to obtain guarantees from both parties. The Hight Honourable Secretary had said that even that was illegal. He had expected misre presentations from other quarters, but he confessed it did surprise him to hear it coming from that.—(Cries of question, question, and some coughing.)—lie came into that House prepared to encounter some coughing; but if lie were to he coughed down, he was determined to let the people of England know, that if any man were to raise his voice on behalf of the poor and oppressed people of the country, he might reckon upon being coughed down. —(Cries of no, no.)—He stood forward merely as the advocate of very unfortunate persons; but who that ever heard him speak upon the subject did not hear him denounce the proceedings of those unhappy indi viduals as illegal and criminal ? He was not sufficiently acquainted with the forms of the House to know best how to dispose of his 'motion. He had been advised by friends near him to withdraw it.—(Cries of Ns, no; divide, di vide.)—He had no objection to divide, even if he divided alone ; and when he went down to the silent tomb —at the latest hour of his life, he should remember the course he pursued that night with satisfaction, as an act of hu- inanity for the relief of men who had a strong claim for lenity. He had no other motive but that of humanity, and that not a false humanity. He had been advised to withdraw his motion ; but he left the matter entirely in the hands of the House, to do with it as they thought pro per—either to divide or allow the motion to be withdrawn. Mr. BENETT briefly explained, after which the House divided : For the motion Against it Majority - ARREST FOR DEBT. t).(10 . --267. Mr. HUME moved for returns showing the number of warrants granted for debt, whether on Mesne Process or on Writs of Execution, in the names of the Sheriffs of London and Middlesex, or of the Sheriff of Surrey, during the year 1830. Also the number of prisoners in custody in the King's Bench, the Fleet, Whitecross-street, the Marshalsea, and Hoisemonger-lane, distinguishing those under Mesne Process, Judgment, or Costs of Suit, during the same year ; and also the.--number in custody on the Ist of January, 1031. Also the number of persons dur ing the same year committed to Whitecross-street and Horsemonger-lane by the Court of Requests. Mr. H. Twiss, Mr. Alderman Waithrnan, Mr. Alder man Wood, and Mr. Warburton said a few words on the subject ; after which Lord ALTHORP observed, that though Ilf?. had last Session given notice of a motion on this sulijeet, the si tuation in which he was at present precluded his taking any steps in it ; though certainly he l'uought that there wa s room for great improvements in the law as it now stood, with respect to arrests, and tho powers of the Courts of Requests. The motion was then agreed to. Mr. HUME moved fur a return showing the number of persons enrolled to serve in the militia during the pre sent year, and the number of tho s e exempt i n each county. He maintained that the militia system %vac , i n hi s op i n i on, altogether bad ; for it fell too heavily on the poor, and riot heavy enough on the rich. He f.t least thought that every man who was called on to serve in the militia should have a right to vote for Members of Parliament. Mr. HUNT concurred in this sentiment; and said, th a t if the new measure of Reform, which was to be introduced did not give a vote to every man who was liable to serve in the militia, he should move, as an amendment, that they should at least be exempt from the payment of *axes. —(A laugh.) Lord ALTHORP said, that the return moved for by the Hon. Gentleman could not, at all events, be made till , he ballots were returned, and even then he doubted whe :her they could he made.—The motion was then agreed to. IRELAND.—RULES OF THE HOUSE. O'GORMAN 'MAHON said, that in rising to make his motion relative to the proclamation that had been issued in Ireland, he had to request the indulgence of the House for what he knew must be an unsavoury subject to it.—(A laugh.).—.Yes; he knew that the question must be unsa voury, because—(Another laugh)--. He thanked the Hen. Member for Limerick (Mr. S. Rice) for his sneer— it came exceedingly well from him ; but (continued the Hon. Gentleman) it shall he remembered to him—(Order, order)—it shall be remembered to him, that from the Treasury Bench.—(Loud cries of " Order.") The SPEAKER rose, but O'GORMAN MAHON still re mained standing. The SPEAKER,WiII the Hon. Member pleat() to take his seat ?_(O'Gorman Mahon sat down.) I rose to interrupt what I conceived, if persevered in, would be dis orderly. O'GORMAN MATION—I am but new to the House, and I am therefore obliged whenever any senior Member is pleased to offer me his advice; but if —, and you Mr. SPEAKER—Admit that you rose in anticipation to answer that which was unmeaning till it was heard through. Sir C. WETHERELL rose to order, and said—Sir, after the masterly manner in which you have announced the rule of order—(Cheers)—after the manner in which you have avoided, because you hoped that an intimation would be sufficient—after the manner in which you have avoided all severity and harshness of manner, and when you have by your manner, responded to the feelings of the whole House—l am surprised that that intimation has not had the effect.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") But if it has not, you, Sir, will again he require.' by the House to rise from that chair to secure its order.—(Loud cheering.) O'GORMAN MAHON—Sir, the Hon. Member for Boroughbridge has called on you to rise from that chair.._ (Cries of " No, no.) He did ! And now, stand for ward any gentleman who says he did not.—(Loufl cries of " Order, order.") The SPE AKER—I am sure the Hon. Member will feel, on reflection, that when I attempt to interrupt the course of any speech, I endeavour to do it in a manner of the greatest lenity—(Loud cheering from all sides of the House)—at the same time that I believe it to be consistent with the full discharge of my duty.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member will, with an exception to what I trust is the general feeling of this House—that I do not interfere sinless I am satisfied that what I interrupt will be out of order ; and however I may abstain from exercising that duty in strong terms, I do it not only from a hope, but from a belief, that the hint will be taken, and that 'shall not be called on to express the rules of the House in stronger tersus.—(Loud cluering.) O'GORMAN MAHON—Sir, I thank you ; I thank you; for you do not contradict what I assert. Indeed, you confirmed what I said, by abstaining, when you rose, from contradicting me when you were called on to do so.—(A cry of " No, no.") I thank you for your "No ;" hut why is it repeated in this way; and why does not some individual gentleman stand up and say it? Had the Speaker hinted at what the Hon. Member for Borough bridge has called on him to rise for and annou nce as a breach of order? The Hon. Member for I3oroughbridge however, has, with the tact and talents peculiar to his pro fession—and considering to what profession he belongs it is not wonderful that he is able to pervert the truth.-- (Cries of " Order," and " Question.")--I thank you for your " Question." The SPEAKER--I cannot but be persuaded that the Hon. Member will, on reflection, thank me for my inter ference. He is now disorderly on two grounds; and if he calls on me I will tell him how. In the first place, what he is now submitting to the House is not to the question ; and, in the next place, in attributing wilful and profes sional perversion to any Member, he is attributing a mo tive which is disorderly at all times. O'GORMAN MAHON—WeII, I am now proscribed from touching the Hon. Member for Boroughbridge any further. But I may meet him again elsewhere.—(Loud cries of " Order, ceder.") Ain I out of order in addressing myself to the Speaker ? It now appears that, after being interrupted six or eight times, you have decided that I am out of order for speaking of the Hon. }Member for Bo roughbridge, for speaking of the perversion which I con sider as belonging to his profession. If I had been out of order before, would you ❑ot have told me of it. I now tell the House that you are my Counsel, and you have given testimony that I was not out of order. Mr. SPEAKER—I am sure the lion. Member must feel, or, if not, I at least hope that the rest of the House will feel—(The loud cheering from all sides of the House prevented our catching the conclusion of the sentence.) I claim nothing for myself personally; but I do claim re spect for the dignity of the Chair.—(Continued cheers.) And I now tell the Hon. Member that he was out of order on both occasions; and this House has never been in the habit of submitting to the manner in which he has been pleased to address the House—(Great cheering)—without giving full notice to the Member, that if he is in error ow ing to a mistake he may retrace his steps ; but if he per sist, that the Speaker may, in the exercise of his duty, call him by his name, so that he may be brought before the House, and then make such explanation as he may think best.—(Cheers.) A pause here took place. The SPEAKER—Has the Hon. Member any motion to make? O'GORMAN MAHON—lndeed I have ; and 1 in tend to speak if I may be permitied : but after the threat that has been used and the sentiments expressed as to the manner in which 1 have addressed the House, I cannot go on. If I have been guilty of any breach of rule, or even of any discourteous phrase, then 1 think that tha. displea sure of the House should fall hot and heavy on me. But if not, I should think that you do not (and I am not addres sing myself to you in particular, because I know you are the head of this House, and I have personally experienced every species of kindness and courtesy from you)—(Cries of " Question ! Question !" " Order ! Order !") You shall have " Question" by and by ; but if you think to induce me to commit myself, you are mistaken ; for to the question I will not go, for I view myself as arraigned at your bar, and either I am in a state of delinquency at that bar, or I am within the circle of the privileges of the House. I wish to know which ? If lam a criminal at the bar,' I must not address the House ; and if not, I have again, how I have been guilty o f any v i a .. a I as rig k h a t g t a o in ad a d n r d ess it. And, on the part of my const i tuents, lation or breach of rule ? You have declared that I have not. I bow to the breach as to the Boroughbrielge case —I mean about the Member of the borough ; but I say I committed no breach before that. lam sorry that any circumstances have induced the House to forget what is due to itself (no matter how it was brought about), and to attempt to deny any Member his privil ege b ecause h e addresses himself to any point. When I was i nterrupte d of what I was speaking ?—I was speaki ng o f t h at w hi c h ench ?—t o my H on . subjected toe to an interruption fr om the Minist,rial Bench. Was I out of order, when I allud e d t o an indi vidualrFurpiet riiodn :ll ?b e o u t i I b th e r a:, o ae n s thatloo only lry so far right so call him so after this inter ruption that I had p rocee d e d : an d am I wrong in saying that the interruption w as no t suc h as it ought to be? Have I not a right, too, to ally that t'sle Hon. Member for Limerick was the very last man that should have interrupted me ? 1 shall say the same again and again. You have confirmed it, and the whole House has confirmed it; and the Hon. M em b er f or a L s i Limerick willc fe k roberof find, though he is antecedent to me the House, that this interruption was full hot and heavy on him. 1 say then again, that I was not out of order ; and your shouts from the other end of the House only allowed, that what I called unsavoury was exceedingly unwelcome to you. I repeat then, that I was not in breach of order.—(A cry of " Order, order.")— You see with what amenity anti gentleness I wait for you to respond to the cry that they are raising. They cry " Order :" I sa y lam not out of order. And slow, Sir, I will come to the question. The Hon. Gentleman then tentior, of the House to the state in which Ireland was, proceeded to state , th a t he wa s desirous of calling the at what relation Ireland was t o vi e w th e Admi nistration an'itok in which existed here—whether as friend or f oe . And in for returns, he would admit that he only used it as a pretext for arriving at information which was of the highest interest to that country. What he might say 'n ight not be of much consequence; but the response of the Ministry would be of the greatest importance to Ireland. At the time he left Ireland the roads were covered with snow, and all communication was cut off with the interor of the country; but its condition could not be mist ,ken—its peopl e were su ff er i ng the extremity ofdi stre ss—they were suffering unresistingly ; but that could not continue ; and he now came to the question w hi c h lie would have reached long before, had he not been interrupted by the Hon. Aletnber for Boroughbridge (sir C. Wetherell.) What did they mean to do with Ireland ? What course did they mean to pursue? Did they mean to cut the string of the bow which was already pulled so t i g h t ? Ireland wished to have a separate Legislature— she was determined to have it ; and he now rose to ask that House and the Government how they were disposed to act ? Whether they would grant the separation as a measure of conciliation, or whether they were disposed to e lreland in blood an d rap i ne ? They ha d t h at n i g h t iea e r p d o f the proceedi ngs o f t h e Engl i sh, the i r own sitcoun trymen. They h ear d of the buntings and destroyings, and machine breakings of England, under the oppression of tithes and taxes, and yet Ireland, under much greater afflictions of that description, had shed no blood, committed no destruction, broke no machines—indeed she bad none. laugh.)—Di(l they deny that the English had bro ken machines on account of the tithes ? If they did, then what did they do it for? If it was not on account of the tithes, or if they had no provocation, then their own Eng lish were a people much more barbarous and bloodthirsty than the Irish. But it was on that account they com mitted outrages, and yet gracious God, not a man was found to walk out of that House in their favour except the member for Louth and himself. Gracious God ! Mr. HUGHES HUGHES, or, as some said, Mr. PERCEVAL, rose to order. He objected to the frequent use of the name of the Deity, in which the Hon. Member ma indulging. It was highly offensive to the feelings of those who could not mention that name but with reve rence and devotion.—(ll,al., The SPEAKER was quite satisfied that the Hon. Member would not make use of any language which could be offensive to the most delicate feelings of any Hon. Mem bers on such subjects. O'GORMAN AIAIION said he could not but respect, as it deserved, the sanctimonious sentiments of the Hon. Member. He had been educated at a College of Jesuits, and he could not be ignorant of the proper use of the name of God.—(A laugh.)—H e fully concurred in the pro priety of the Hon. Member's sentiments, and he also fulls concurred in the proposal for a fast.—(Hear.)—living said thus much in concurrence with the Hon. Gentleman's feeling of sanctity, if the Hon. Gentleman would have the goodness to restore him to the place in his speech where that interruptio❑ took place, lie should feel much obliged to him —(A general laugh.)—Nothing at all times gave him more pleasure than to promote tie good humour and conviviality of the House, and he was happy to do so on this occasion. No people on earth enjoyed pleasure and good humour more tha❑ his countrymen, but, alas ! mirth was at present unknown to them, and asery and famine stalked over the land. At a meeting where two Magistrates were present, and took depositions of the facts on oath, it was sworn that in the parish of Newport, in the county of Mayo, there were 3,031 persons without food, raiment, or fuel. The Members of that House talked of paying seven shillings a week to their labourers to afford them one good meal a day ; but there were 3,031 human beings who would be glad of twopence a day to live on—human beings who had no wheat, bread was unknown to them— who never tasted flesh meat—who wished but for a po. tatoe and salt ; and yet there they were, since the 10th of January, without a particle to sustain them.—(A laugh, and hear, hear.)—Before the Ist of March, he was as sured, there would be 2,000 inure in the same condition, while the population of his county (Clare) was nearly in a condition as destitute. He now came to the real question. He had prophesied to them, months ago, that the time would soon come when they must make up their minds to a separation. Thee time was now come; and if they were disposed to keep up the connection at all, they must have recourse to the only means through which it could be preserved—they must determine between a total re peal and the necessity of holding their sittings alternately in the metropolis of each kingdom.—(A laugh. )—lle al most regretted he had not bee❑ born pugnacious, that he might answer that cheer and the gesture which accom panied it as it required. Ireland was at that moment covered with snow. lie did not mean to say they could immediately better the condition of those who were buried under four or five feet of snow.—(A laugh.)— The people of Ireland did not accuse England of being the cause of the snow, but they accused them of indifference to their sufferings ; and he, as one of those who hearth it often asserted in that house that Ireland was identified with England, called on them, for the sake of their mu tual interest to alleviate those sufferings. Before the end of that Session there would be twenty County Members advocating the repeal of the Union, and he implored theta, while they yet could in safety, to grant that sepa ration, which could not long be resisted. The Irish loved the English as their brethren. They did not, as it had been threatened elsewhere, wish to see French bayonets carried in steam-boats to Ireland, to effect the destruction of English supremacy ; but they implored England to ire wise, and to yield in time, lest such a catastrophe might take place. England had been standing for centuries on the back of Ireland ; but if she permitted the connectio❑ to be rudely severed, she would be reduced to her proper dimensions—she would be left to her own resources, and she would feel the iron heel standing on the cold sward. If England failed to take the advice of those who knew best the sentiments of the people of Ireland, he could tell her that her controul over Ireland has gone for ever. By Him who made the world, Ireland would be separated from England, and cease to be her supporter. He called on them, therefore, to take warning, to take time by the forelock, and to be wise while it was in their power. He felt that in pursuing the course which his conscience and his duty dictated, that he was lowering himself much in the opinion of all around him. He knew when they left that House, they would call him per tinacious, impudent, and obtrusive ; but his duty to his country called on him to sacrifice all minor considerations, and to warn England of the consequences of the course she was pursuing. Sir Henry Hardinge (he begged par don, the late Secretary for Ireland) had, he confessed, acted rightly and consistently in putting down an attempt to revive the ancient Association. That was honest, and honourable, and consistent with the feeling of his Government; and he (O'Gorman Mahon) would have supported it; but the law under which the proclamations were issued was stigmatized as infamous by the men now in power, and yet they now go much farther, and adopt measures still more arbitrary—and, he might add, in famous. Finding, then, that these men were persecuting the man who was the real friend of Ireland, and that they were, by illegal prosecutions, driving him to a dungeon, could he avoid supporting him? He had been absent in Belgium, but when he returned and heard these things, Ire asked himself was this a fitting course for it liberal Whig Administration ? He came to England to support them—not because they were Peter, Jack, or Tom—but because he approved of their principles; and although he disapproved of their Civil List, he would support them as long as he could. When he found officers dragging the friend of his country to prison, he could not, however, avoid opposing those who had recourse to such measures. He could not believe that a Chief Magistrate of such a country as Ireland would have authorised a common catch pole to rush into the house of a gentleman, of whom no apprehension could be entertained that he would run away. Common courtesy between Magistrates required a very opposite line of conduct. Was it possible that such a man—the favourite of his country, the representative of a county—should have such an indignity perpetrated upon him ? But passing by the insult, where was lie now? Why was he not in his place in that House? Where were the petitions which had been entrusted to him by his consti tuents ? Why was he unable to present them ? Because he had been caught and detained by a quibble of law, and not by the Constitution. Why the present Lord High Chancellor of England had declared that the law was a bad law ; that it was a violation of the Constitution. The Lord Chancellor had said this—a man of talent and learn- ing. But where were the Whigs? Why did they not opEpe the execution of such a law? How stood the question now ? The repeal of the Union was not popular in this country, but it was all popular in Ireland. It was popular among 8,000,000 of people; all classes of men were there favourable to it. He meant the occupiers of the soil ; he did not mean the absentees ; he did not mean the Irish residents in Florence and Verona ; he did not mean those who escaped from all the annoyances of living in their own country : be meant the occupiers of the soil, who were unanimous in favour of the repeal. In Ros common a unanimous resolution had been passed, to the effect that the Legislatuse of England was not a fit Legis lature for Ireland. The same was done in Clare; the earns in Meath; the same in Sligo. Was a statement MI such facts as these to be put down by a cry of " Order !" from the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughlnidge ? He would have a ❑umber of placards printed in praise of order, with the head of the lion. and Learned Member placed at the top of them, and send them over to Ireland for the amusement of his countrymen. He called upon the House to take a decided step. It would be im possible any longer to bully. Irishmen were a kind of animal easily guided by kindness; but when the spur was applied to them, they were not always dis posed to lie down quietly. He called upon the House to take a decided step. Here was a bad law ; here was an unconstitutional law. Ireland was left without any Constitution at all. No violence, no outrage, no threats, no bullying, no swaggering would do any good. Had Englishmen any confidence in Earl Grey ? H e begged pardon, bail they any confidence in their Premier What were that Noble Lord's principles with tespixt to the Union? They were on record. The Noble Lord had been one of its most violent opponents. "It," exclaimed the Noble Lord, at the time the subject was under discus sion—" if, the Union between Great Britain and Ireland take place, I predict that it can never la t; it must be abrogated and repealed." Let thou who had friendship or affection fur the Noble Lord realize his piuphecy. It must be realized. Look at the first legal officer of Ireland. Look at Lord Plunkett. Lord Plunkett, when the Union was proposed, declared that it was a measure which hi could- - never sanction, that it would be most prejudicial, and then bursting into enthusiasm, added, " I will take my son, like Hannibal, to the altar of his country, and make him swear eternal hostility to the advocates of the Union.' Yet the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughbridge must interrupt him, because he was anxious to communi- cate to the House as much information aw possible on this most important subject. The Hon. and Learned Gentle man could not have shown more warmth, had he ap proached him, and disarranged the handsome habiliments in which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman delighted to he clad. Then, indeed, there might have been a scene like one in Shakspeare ; and then the Hon. and Learned Gentleman might indeed have called " Order !" Before whom had the Hon. Member for Waterford been taken ? Before Judge Jebb, who had formerly declared his hostility to the Union. if that Learned Person had changed his opinion, it was only because the ermine sat on his shoul der. Look at Bush Lot* at that man of eminent to-, lent ! What did he gay ? Did he declare that the Union was a benefichil measure? Quite the contrary. All men of talent in Ireland were friendly to the repeal of the Union; Ind yet the wish fur the repeal was chatecterised as " The madness of those ignorant Irish fellows." It was for merly suggested, that at least Parliam en t should sit alter nately in the capitals of the two kinedotas. That propo sition might at one time have succeeded. But it would not do now. Even the Hon. Member for Waterlord could not prevail upon the Irish people to allow that plan to be substituted for a repeal of the Union, tie people of Ireland would hurl him from his height of popularity, and trample upon Lim as a traitor. The House did not appear to be aware sf the feeling ( f Ireland upon this subject. He would now tell them, for he hail permisson to do so— that be had himself been for eeven years and a hai a Member of a secret Society in Ireland, composed of Pro testants and Presbyterians, whose only object was to ob tain a Repeal of the Union. Hr knew that in making this avowal he was on his way to tin, Tower. II he hal not avowed this fact in the Housa before, it was because he wished to see what the. House were doing, ate! beciuse he had not received permission to make the disclosure. The Satiety was now, however, dissolved. As soon as they found that the strong arm of power was raised against the Hon. Member fir Waterford, they determined to declare themselves openly, and to identify their cause with his. e t , Ireland there was now no Constitution. The last time lie was called upon to perform a legal function in a Court of Justice in that country, he !Ontod the door barred. What would bo said if such a proeeeding were to take place with reference to any of the Courts in Westminster 11111 ? Here the House of Commons could safely assemble : in Ireland they could nor. In England the King himself could not come and disperse them. But if they were in Ireland, a deputy's deputy, sub-deputy, a baboon with a piece of thirty parchment, could enter, and say, " Gentlemen of the House of Commons, walk out ;" and if in fourteen minutes they did not obey the mandate, three months' imprisonment would be the lot of every one of them. He hoped his Majesty's Government would be able to dis connect themselves from the proceedings which had taken place in Ireland ; that the Hon. Member for Waterford would _be sent to his place in that House, and that no further proceeding would be bad upon a law which they had themselves declared unconstitteional. If, on the con trary, they should persevere—if they should ranch that Hon. Member to a dungeon, they would send seven millions of Irish hearts to the sante dungeon with him ; and then God help the connection between the two countries. Ue had now done; and, with the exception of the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughhridge, he begged to express his thanks to tke House for the attention with which they bad listened to him. The Hon. Gentleman concluded a speech, of which we have been able to give but a slight outline, by moving, " That there he laid before the House copies of the proclamations issued by the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland since the passing of the Act against unlawful assemblies ; and a copy of a letter of the present Chief Secretary to the Magistrates of Ireland." Lord ALTHORP said that he rose very unwillingly, but, after the speech which had been made by the Hon. Member for Clare, it was impossible for him nut to enter at some length into the conduct of his Majesty's Govern ment with respect to Ireland. He regretted that the lion. Gentleman had made his motion in the absence of his Right Hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland, as also in the absence of the lion. Member for the county of Waterford; because it was impossible for him (Lord Al thorp), in his statement, not to allude to the conduct of the Hon. Member for Waterford in a way in which he was sorry to allude to the conduct of any gentleman in his absence, and especially a gentleman in the situa tion in which that Honourable Member was at present placed.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had suggested to the Hon. Member for Clare, in private, that if he would move for the papers in qutstien, without making any ob servation, this might be avoided. The Hon. Member, however (and he did not mean to impute to him any blame on the subject), thought that it was his duty to make the statement which he had just made ; and he (Lord Al thorp) told him that, in that case, he should feel it neces sary t• make a counter-statement in defence of the Go vernment. The state of the case in Ireland was briefly this :—The Hon. Member for Waterford was exciting so touch discontent, which he called agitation, that notwith standing he cautiously terminated every speech, how ever inflammatory, with a recommendation of obedience to the law, it was evidently tending to insurrection and rebellion.—(Loud and general shouts of hear, hear, with intermingled shouts as loud from O'Gorman Mahon of "No, no.")—And what was the avowed object of the agitation excited by the Hon. Member for Waterford ? To obtain the repeal of the Union. Now he (Lord Althorp) asked the House if it was not absolutely the duty of his Majesty's Govermnent to pre vent an agitation, having en object in view which must lead to the separation of the two countries? - (Hear.) 'Who was there could conceive it possible that one Legislature could sit in England and another Legislature sit in Ireland, and that the two countries could long remain united ? (Hear, hear.) The experiment had been tried. Let the House recollect the difference of opinion that existed be tween the two Legislatures of England and Ireland in the year 1783. Was it not a matter of notoriety, that if the malady of George 111. had continued, the Government of Ireland would have been in the hands of one set of polio tical individuals, and the Government of England in the hands of another set? He admitted that no such diffe rence had since taken place. But would the Hon. Mem ber for Clare wish to see such Parliaments in Ireland as those which had since been there? Would he wish for a repetition of such scenes as those of 1797 and 1795 ? The lion. Gentlemen talked of deluging Ireland with blood— what did the Irish Parliaments do?—(Hear.) He (Lord A.) was, therefore, quite at a loss to conjecture whence the benefit was to proceed from the Repeal of the Union ; which the friends of the Repeal expected from it. Seeing this, and seeing the agitation which was excited for the purpose of procuring the Repeal, it was manifestly the duty of Government to apply every meana in their; power for suppressing that agitation. He by no means intended to say that the only policy which his Majesty's Government in Ireland ought to pursue was to suppress the agitation merely by force. The wise policy was, while they firmly suppressed that violent and seditious conduct which tended to insurrection and rebellion, by measures of conciliation and kindness to show the people of Ireland that there was every possible disposition to attend to and retrieve their grievances.—(Hear, bear, bear.) This was the policy which his Majesty's Government had resolved to adopt. They were determined to use their utmost exertions to resist the designs of the agitators: but, at the same time, by giving employment to the people of Ireland, by repealing such laws as were obnoxious to them, and by other mea sures of a similar character, to do all they could to conci liate their affections.—( Hear, hear.) He hoped and trusted that the advocates of the Repeal of the Union would never succeed in the attainment of their object. Knowing, as he did, the feelings and the spirit of his countrymen, and of those of the Hon. Gentleman, he could hardly conceive the possibility of their obtaining that object except by civil war. No man held civil war in greater detestation than himself; but even that be should prefer to the dismember. ment and destruction of the empire.—(Loud and long_ continued shouts of hear, hear.) Mr. LEADER disclaimed ever having had any con nection with any political society. The lion. Member for Clare had asserted that the people of Ireland were unani mous in their determination to obtain the repeal of the Union by force.—(O'Gorman Mahon denied having so expressed himself. ) lie had himself heard the Hon. Mem ber say that the time for deliberation was past, and that the people of Ireland were determined upon the accom plishment of their object. It had happened to hint (Mr. Leader) to have travelled through a great part of Ireland, during the recess. Though a Protestant, he bad not been afraid to face thirty thousand Catholic constituents, and tr account for hit conduct to them. He had 'told them, in looking at the question of the Repeal of the Union, to consider the circumstances on both sides ; and to remember that they had at present the British market—the privilege of trading to the British colonies—the prospect of an open ing to the East India trade, and almost a certainty of a Parliamentary Reform; ht e h i se td cho) : ns l: t e oi l f . t e tal fo el nl r e tths t e, l: sef a ttbhteel eleyifinoet:ogbflyretaollitio.. en deavourdaplt:t:oeflileviei lof t l' o 'l'eerne p a Ic r :e o ti: c te a oyli re ate'dito:l)eltd'—i practical benefits for Ireland ; and that if he could he would then consider what he had to do, and resign his trust into their hands. What was the con sequence ? Why, that he, a Protestant gentleman, re ceived front 30,000 Catholics a unanimous vote of confi dence in hint.—( Hear.) With respect to Mr. O'Connell, he thought it was improper, after the intimation given by the Noble Lord, in the lion. Member for Clare to bring forward the presosst motion ; but it was a question of great interest -_..a question involving several legal distinc tions—.a question involving stve.al constitutional rights.. involving the construction of an Act of Parliament ; and the result, therefore, be it which way it might, must be arrived at with difficulty. Ile was sorry, tinder the cir cumstances, that the subject had been brought forward. i l i d e e k ar, ne fr w om that there O'Gorman ser v is e li d l ic i s on o . u;_en u ts in lrel utbeal a so utl. kn — But -a (and les there was an ob-etvation of Earl Grey and of Mr. F ! is: ; he had heard it in both Houses of Parliament on variou♦ occasions), he knew, that wherever great di.euntent", existed, the presumption war, that the Government W s as to blame. He thought it was his duty tq call the atten, 1 t4o's IA( a to tte"' ,rtles o - ,, ° °le Lord n, cobbett "",,,11,;1 4 Merit the s was, beea:fteas the las d talke d pi t to interfere hire, to r f f 6 the Corn 31r. P`" e t for t 11 '' the pea San ,„,t willtun w e should sit J o it m oa t ItC u ieli the hibo , for abou 44 been there f " u e ; c R c ti• .1 tribut ru l i t Ctill tri u YORKE a nd to o,ooa th. °4B e, after tl he Hon. r A te ' , sid e , and Teat P °sve r lo t w h at! replied it his Pe ss " t b' e rkttrerd, argurnt nise lf for retie attaek.--(1. li r b e 'e pa • o.or p re, r tle9 to tl ,try. tint sv a • j 1 114 . ~tO O , who e there al s o lLt Neillber for ince° )11) ts 1 agai nst ur „ lo u g h, the n spread sl(Si r against it_ vas siCePl / 04f, L l P Orke) wo body 3 ' )tle , I ,ft tk:: tuer n W,19, the e a°l ,A , e ,liciko t - ,! )e tt them t o legal p ro. btr i ' l lie ld erelled to Me c l,itl 9 ', 4 4( th„ i°4 * Good )f the te le l'ho send of Mai" toreOtt'ller in whi lac ° ed. (I x t coo o ot o ""N.Lear. Acts, , Otr p ur nt dow n , creed the°Pooittqh;r,e'ton wool , ad s hova, th "V ntsit the i lee, a nd 00 0 44,.. ere would nenett)GeolAvy 'nuld h not he Ho° •,,,OrNeth -ether or no nent orP " ti t ta er oot ragistratethdAit,:t_t a 0 to de , otai , was 00, of r 4 t},,:destroyed ? - 2hairtn a°° oo4 men was i 0 , not in 0 ,40. 7, 04, mention t o the P ri v t t4l th th e Merril), tigilance4o,l,thov: r at least.- ,ttention 7,0" P to °er ne wi ors takeo ';‘,,c(Qtea•t Preston, al m ust eve',ll4ktilci laughter. )_ , undej„. , 3 :4l , : t het:,„" a Yt He apt. ' 0 1" s‘t'th d 'as not th, Nand nie :t oo k 44 ght er n j t an ' I, ' l- 0 113' 1, %Lit t ,' -1-- -Yet ' a WY o whit 1 ptai .„ 0 4, iv tk eit e avian! 0 „,,4",: relict 4 Y. Th e ra d then bo eusl a d d :a° r eprese h e one 1 1 4 4 ',led those doe rest a t s' ll if tflr tae a 3 their ri :w me" g e p'' he to;rt• in the sited by ritflZ(l.ao.gt nee a se ripe fo r PrNi o h ßu the bl( )%c i ,' 4 " q u alities. Ives at t- i, e o: 4 ;ase,.,. a nnte otf t. i rm A iii•(Laughter. t they 10 , 1 ` i : the Tiber ers• to kp,e,,t) speechl &iced sfq:tth 148- --(Lau n by fear. der tY,4ko,sie k new to b! nes, nr3 s tiA t hio a ti °, t a Patti( e p the° p t' t , , w as that his I he bur iel o l; ° Pli zn 'Ore the had not. #( 11 1 had tilt in the l,iadown fik: l 4(l :I°Te hopes ti man to - f e r i . 4. dktZsing handt ich the f i p', 4 l of e °ne of eonee i ".o ) ! t t ht t o the gallant )nsent t °l ,,,,lC•ttd , / ‘ v ° of Liver Lt had b ee it iet, l :}', 14'3'0 RPETI l be e °°' ci l 'tt for r "II it in , u sa, Wil, • m ust s io . ruc tioa tej .Y entitl e tore 4e „,10 11 1 t,i, to at Hou se , have v`, - tkilt of - b ° a ttentive )st now o orlk bahlt a ' io l 'll4;ua t 4 w as net o There, orp. t that in th di .0 irt, L , his ne : v n atr . ,,it„sah thatwit''" tor w lf 1 1 4 0 6, U Panity.. id jll kCe 4l d lYstetti corn -P t)) , Is4a to , if 'aissio na , b e dole 1,, t each cas b u rning: tb ( !_, ol Yto n e n of b y ti said t l ' s t ' 4 th ter Lookl,o et, e the broca m 44. 4 hi r „ a ae of Bed t - With t ,yelled „, ktd, Y P 3 P e 0 0 ' 'f „,. 0410 , 0 Abe a ppe ht qquity, —the ° ° , e d lV ( i 4 ,', l i t.Q ° l , he ghoul d lease .)..,be shoo Sat lef still I r e (Lord . but sac''';ol'll th ' ur ther c ;r4 4 e fullest ;er. ~ttty , of e t the w t • - bey icy ID , n ever t i me„ tnerit f