The Sun. — London, England, 1854-03-01 00:00:00

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Van it would Is being aroused ese, and ,ged 18, layden, landker- the fact Scar as wu NEP ►b ins.» uilty to paired! most oldierg, or their that of escape of war, iil hard IMPERIAL HOUSE OF COMMONS--(THIS DAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at 2 o'clock. RAILWAY BILLS. BOTIVERIE moved that the committee of selection do nominate, from time to time, not more than one in Eve of the members nominated by them as the general committee on railway and canal bills, to act as chair men of sub committees on inch bills. To be made a 'Standing order.—Agreed to. The West London Railway Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. PETITIONS. Mr. B. PARKER presented a petition from Preston, praying for an amendment of the criminal law. Several petitions were presented against any alteration in the Parliamentary oaths. A number of petitions were presented praying that public-houses may be closed on the Lord's-day. GRAVEYARD OF BERKELEY. Mr. C. BERKELEY wished to ask the Under Secretary of State for the Home Department whether an application, signed by the proper authorities, had reached the Home Office for closing the graveyard of the town of Berkeley, in the county of Gloucester ; and, if such application had been received, why the noble lord had allowed three months to elapse without taking any steps with regard to the subject. Mr. FITZROY said a letter was received on the 14th of last November, and on the 6th of December an answer was sent stating that an officer would be sent down in due course to inspect the grave yard. Three officers had been appointed for the especial purpose of inspecting the graveyards of the country, and the inspector of the Gloucestershire dis trict would visit the Berkeley churchyard as soon as possible. Of course, -wixestrhtristport was received at the Home office it would be. immediately acted upon. SUPPLY. The report of the cotriMittee - of supply on the war and ordnance expenses was brought-up and agreed to. LAST NIGHT'S DEBATE. On the motion for going into committee of supply, Mr. LUCAS took the opportunity of adverting to the ease of the Misses Arrowsmith, referred to last night by Mr. Chambers. He mentioned that while these ladies were in a convent. he had an interview with them, and he could assure_ the. house that they enjoyed as much liberty and happiness there as it was possible for one to obtain out of it. , It was entirely with their own free will that they entered and remained in the convent. The subject then dropped. ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. The house then went into committee of supply on the Ordnance Estimates. 902,821/. was voted for -defraying the expense of works and buildings abroad. [LEFT SITTING.] ALLEGED TRAFFIC IN SITUATIONS BY IRISH REPRESENTATIVES. Yesterday the committee on this subject re-assembled in committee-room No. 19. Present : Mr. Henley (in the chair), Lord Hotham, Mr. I. Butt, Mr. Macartney, Mr. Granville Vernon, Mr. Bentinck, and Mr. Muntz. Mr. Ennis, chairman of the Irish Midland Railway, was the first witness. He said he was acquainted with Mr. Christopher Kelly in 1841, who was then a clerk in his counting-house, but denied that he had any conver sation with him in reference to the payment of a sum of money to a member of Parliament for obtaining a situa tion as a stipendiary magistrate ? The Chairman—Then lf Mr.- Kelly, has stated that a Bum of 500/. was paid-404k member of Parliament on the promise of a place, and the promise of another 500/. on that premise being ratified—you have no know ledge of it - Mr. Ennis said he had not. If such conversation had taken place he had no recollection of it. He would not take upon himself to say, aye or no, that no such con versation took place, but he was strongly of opinion that it did not. At the same time he was not in so good a position to remember such a thing after 13 years had passed as perhaps Mr. Kelly was. Mr. Hanley was then called. He said he was a sti pendiary magistrate, and his' first appointment took place on the 13th Feb., .Is4l. The Chairman—lt has been stated to us by a witness who was examined last week that your name has beer mixed up with other persons in reference to that ap pointment. It is hardly fair to ask you anything further upon this point, unless you wish to make any statement upon it. Mr. Henley—The statement of Mr. Kelly in the papers is without a shadow of foundation. I applied to two members of Parliament, and I have no objection to lay their communications before the committee ; but no such transactions as Mr. Kelly alleges ever took place. The witness here produced a letter from the late Mr. Dillon Browne, dated Dec. 5, 1837, in which .the writer expressed his fear that the Government would pay little attention to recommendations coming from him. The next communication was from Mr. Somers :—" St. James's Hotel, St. Jameis-street, Dec. 18, 1838.--My dear Honley,—l have much pleasure in complying witt, your request, and forward you the enclosed letter for Lord Morpeth, wishing you success.—Believe me, in haste, yours sincerely, .1. P. SOMERS." A letter from Lord Brabazon was.of a tenour similar to that of Mr. Browne. In answer to the chairman the witness said he received his appointment from Lord Morpeth. Mr. Butt—Are the committee distinctly to under stand that you never icte any Consideration for your appointment ? Mr. Honley—Never. The Chairman—Has there beeii any application made toou for money o n th e p ar t o f M r . S omer s ? Mr. Honley—At the time of - my appointment as ma gistrate I sold off my stock, and in the newspapers I advertised that I had 1,0001. to lend. I was subse- Inently applied to, and through my solicitor I lent 4001. to Mr. Somers and 4001. to some one else. I lent the money to Mr. Somers on the security of his bond. I have not received the interest, and the property has been sold by the Encumbered Estates Court, and after the previous creditors are satisfied, I am the first to be paid. I think that loan was made in 1840. A similar sum was lent to Mr. Custins by Mr. Kane, my solicitor, about the same time. In that case I have not received one farthing. I applied to Mr. Somers three or four times for the interest, and the only excuse for not pay ing it he made to me was by not answering my letters. The money was lent on mortgage, and the interest was to be paid from time to time, but I had no communication with Mr. Somers, except through my solicitor. Mr. Vernon—Then were you satisfied to let your money go for 7 or 8 years and receive no interest for it ? Mr. Honley—l was not, but under the circumstances what could Ido ? I did not consider the money that I lent to Custins near so well secured as that I lent to Mr. Somers. The Chairman—Through whose infleence did you get the appointment Mr. Honley—That of the late Mr. O'Connell. After some other unimportant questions, the witness was ordered to withdraw. Dr. Gray was next called. He said he practised me dicine, and was the proprietor o" the Dublin Freeman's Journal. He attended a dinner at Tuam in January last, which was reported in the Freeman's Journal of the 27th of January. The speech was read over to witness and was stated by him to be a summary of what he said, and not a perfectly accurate one. The public will remember that he asserted some member of Parliament had endeavoured to sell the office of paid guardian: Upon being pressed by the committee to give the names of the parties referred to he hesitated to do so, stating that they were given to him confidentially. The Chairman—You, in your discretion, made the Statement, without saying to whom it points, and, as it affects a whole body of gentlemen who may be sus pected most unjustly, I think you cannot withhold the name of the parties. Dr. Gray said as the statement was given confiden tially he had great difficulty in revealing that that was confidential. The Chairman—As this statement may be injurious to several persons, you must, verify it by giving the names. Dr. Gray—lf I can do so without a breach of confi dence I am ready to do so. The Chairman—Who is the solicitor ? Dr. Gray—Mr. Charles O'Hara, of Wellington-street, Dublin. The Chairman—Who stated to you that he was nego tiating with a member of Parliament for the office of paid guardian Dr. Gray—Mr. James Fair informed me of the nego tiation. He is now an apprentice to Mr. Dooley. To Mr. Vernon—He conveyed to me an impression that he was acting as the agent of a member of Parlia ment. The Chairman—Who was the member of Parliament! Dr. Gray—Mr. Somers. To Mr. Vernon—l do not know from my own per- Renal knowledge that Mr. O'Hara was acting for Mr. Somrs. Mr e . Butt—ln your speech you said the 'system was generally pursued; do you know of any other instance? Dr. Gray—l have heard of a great many, but not to ray knowledge. I have heard general statements from members of the house. Mr. Butt—Can you give the committee any other in stance to justify the general charge and accusation you have made ? Dr. Gray—There are a great many cases, but I have not inquired into them. Mr. Vernon—Do you consider you can justify your self in making such a sweeping charge against a body of members ? Dr. Gray—l did not make a general charge. I spoke of general corruption. I made no general charge against the Irish members, but I did charge a section of them with pretending to advance the condition of Roman Catholics by obtaining situations, but instead of doing so distributing them among their own friends, and thus selling their country.' It being now intimated that the Speaker was at prayers, the committee adjourned. GENERAL STEAM NAVIGATION COMPANT.—The fifty eighth half-yearly meeting of the shareholders in this company was held yesterday at their offices, 71, Lom bard-street, Mr. John Wilkin, in the chair. The report of the directors, and a statement of the accounts for the year ending the 31st December last were read to the meeting. The report, which was very satisfactory, was unanimously received and adopted by the proprietors. The usual dividend and bonus were declared, and the cordial thanks of the proprietors voted to the chairman and directors for their continued zealous services in the Management of the company's affairs ; after which the Looting separated. SHARE MARKETS. (THIS DAY.) BRITISH RAILWAYS. rt AILWAYS. !Paid. Aberdeen ttuabg. Nottng. Bost and Basta. Junet Belfast & Ballymena Birming. Wolverh. & Stour Valley Birkenhd. Lancsh. 41 1 Cheshire Junct Do. Chesh. & Birk., £5O and £25 Cons. Do., £2O Blyth &Tyne original f 25 (issd. at £45) Bristol and Exeter Caledonian. ....... Chester & Holyhead. Cork and Bandon Cork, Black, & Pass Cornwall Crieff Junction Dublin&BelfastJunc Dundee Perth &Aber deen Junction Do. New East Anglian.... Do., (XlB E & H) Eastern Counties Eastern Union, A Stock 'Do., B. Stock Do., New A East Lancashire Edinburgh & Glasgow Edinb. and Peebles Edin. Prth. & Dundee Forth & Clyde June. Glasgow & S. Western Great Northern Stk. Do., A. Stock Do., B. Stock Gt. Sth. &West. (Ire ) Great Western.....,.. Irish South-Eastern. Lancaster & Carlisle Do., Thirds Do. New Thirds Lancash.andYorksh Do., Fifths D 0., Wst. Riding Un Leeds Northern 100 . 42 34 all all 100 Ili 1-81 Liv.Orsby.&Southpt London & Blackwall Lond. Tilb. & Sthend. Lond. Bright & S.Cst. Loud. and N. Westn. Do. Fifths Do.lo/. 5h.,M&8...0 Do. Eighths London and S. Westn Do., £5O Do., £4O Lnndrry& Coleraine Lndndrry. & Ennisk. Manch.Shef.& Lincln Do., Man. & Lin. tin Midland Do. Birmng. & Derby Niidld. G. We st. (Ire.) Do. Half Shares Newcastle & Carlisle Newmarket Do., Bury Extension Nwpt.Aberg. & Hrfd Newry & Enniskillen Newry Warrenpoinf and Rostrevor. Norfolk Northn.Counties Un North British North Devon, No. 1 Do., No. 2 Do., A A Deferred •0., B Guaranteed 2/ 2s 100 100 100 100 North London ,Do. Now £lO N.&S.Wstrn.,Hamp stead, and City Jn North Staffordshire.; North Western.; N. & S. Westrn. June Nuneaton, Hinckley, and Leicester 2l 2s all Iqj 100 • 8 100 20 17 all all 14 Jxford, Worc ester, & Wolverhampton Portsmouth all 51s. 100 20 13r, 100-, Scottish Central Scottish Midland Shrewsbury & Bi i mg Do. L. & N. Western Guaranteed St t sk Shrewsby. & Nereid Shrewsby. & Clsestm 1 (N. W. Min ; Do. Halves,i s. Do. Oswestry Shropshire Union Do. A, B, C,& D,fully paid up at per cent South Devon uth Eastern South Wales rS. Yrksh. & Riv. Dun IDo. Staines, Wok. &Wok Stockton & Darling. Stockton & Hartlepl Taff Vale Do. £lO shares. Do. Pref., No. Thames Haven Doch and Railway Vale of Neath Waterfd. & Kilkenny Waterford&Limeriek! West Cornwall all all 1.00 all West End of LondoL and Crystal Palace %Vest London 1 Wirubledn & Croydor York Newctl.&Betw. Do. Extensions Do. G.N. E. Purchase York & N. Midland 'Aberdeen. Do. No. 2, 7 p. c. Blyth and Tyne 10 per c. pref. (issd. at 500 Bris. & Ex. 4 p. c. St. Do. 4 p. c. Shares Caledonian £lO 'Chester & Holyhead Guar. 5l per cent Cork &Bandons4p.c Dundee Perth &Aber deen Junction _ _ . EastAngliau (I:310s) 6 per cent Do. ( x 5) 7 per cent Do. (£7l7s) 7 p. c Eastern Counties Ex tension, 5 p. c. No. 1 Do. No. 2 . Do. New 6 p. c. St. Eastern Union, Scrip Guar. 6 per cent Do. 51., 10 per cent. Do. 101. Debentr.Sh- East Lancash. 6 p.cts. East and West York shire June. Pref Edinb Prth.&Dundee 5A per cent. Glasgow &S.Western Guar. 5 per cent—. Great Northn. 5 p. c. Do. 5 p. c. Redeem., at 10 p. c. prem... Do. 41 p. c. Scrip Gt.N. of Scot. Ist Prof Gt, Southn.&Westm. (Ireland) Eighths) Do. 4 per c. Pref. Sh Gt. Westn. (Berke & Rants Ex. 5 p. c) Do. cov. red. 4 P.C ? . ; Do. con. red. 4 p. c Do. irred. 4 p. c Lan. & York. F. £2C Do. 6 p. e. Stock Leeds N. 6 p. c. No. 1 Do. Quarters, 1848 London and Brighton Guaranteed 5 p. c Do. Pref., 5 p. c. St. Do. Convertible, 5 p. c., 1852 all 4A all all 106 , 100 100 1001 100 100 100 100 all 100 15 all all all Do. New Guar.6 p. c. Lou. &N. W., Coy. di Nuneaton London & S. Western Con. Thirds Londonderry& Coler. Shares Londy. & Ennis. Sh. Usu., Shef., & Liu., Shares, No. 1. ... Do. New, £lO Do. £6 Nfarypt.&Carl.4 p.c Do. 4i per cent...... Do Mid. Consol.6 p.c.St Do. Consol. Bristol & Birm. 6 .per cent Do. Pref. 41 per cent Norfolk Debenture Do. Pref. 4 p. c. Sto Do. 5 p. c. Eat Do. 5i per et. pref Do. Way. Val. 5 P.C. North British North Staffordshire Oxford, Worcester, & Wolverh.Xls, 6 p.c. Do Scot. Cent., New Prof Shrews. & Birm.N.G. Shrewsby. & Chester (Nor.W. Min), 8 p.c. Do. 5 per cent South Devon Do. fixed, 4:1 per cent S. Eastern (Reading Ann.) of £1 Os. 6d. Do. 4iper cent. S.Yorksh.4p.e.Guar. Stockton and Dar- lington, 4 per tent, Do. do. do, .itoekton and Hartle• pool, guar. 5 p. c. till Ist July, 1856 Waterfd.&Kilk.6p.c. York, Newcastle,and Berwick,4 p.c. Pref Do York&N. Midland H ATICI Cloelig Price yesterday. 2111 - 21: L - 5i 8 - 9 11 9 disl 17 - 19 6i 94 - 96 554 - 56 15t - 16 13 - 134 u - 46 7i- qt; 12 : 13; 65 - 67 -60 64 22 24 = 9 4 4 936 79 81 127 - 129 95 - 97 81 - 816, 92 95 I2i 131 p 12 -- 13 p 67i -- 68 6j -- 6d iii = ii 8 8 par i p 96i 970 102 - 104 par— §p 0 d 80 81 10 9-d 9 7 d 22i - 231 62 - 622, 35 - 37- •-• • • ••• d 5 2i 3 6 8 48 50 3i 31 35 d 8 10 52 - 55 ip 5i -.. 6i 76 - 8 34 - 35 89 91 54 - 56 58' - 62 55 CO 3 2 d 16 - 18 8 - 9 12 - 13 3i - 3gti 14 16 63 64 35 2 d par 4 5 30 - - 372 15 15 51 - 24 - 26 6 - 7 ... - ... 6 - 7 69 70 71 nil 4 3d 486 -- 494 PREFERENCE SHARES. ---- ik 61- 6i 3 -- 31 4 -- P -- li ? 13i -- 14 Zi - 3i 1 116 - 118 107 - 109 i- i P 7i -- 8 ... 64 98 100 90 95 94 96 ld pal 137 139 21 - 21 ii - 13 6 i 7i 96 10 par i p 136 138 id 102 - 101 i - Ip, 94 -10 It 3 —l7 10 -- 10} 13 -- 15 id -- *P 23i - 24 17 —is 93 95 3i 4 id Business done this day. 25 25 18 20 St. 812s1 25 50 20 St. 50 St. 16 20 20 10 10 26i 13A 20 20 20 20 50 20 12& 13 id 934 x(1 80 14 80 1i 128 97i 80i 180} 68 71 11 8 8 1 96 1021 i 22i 62H i ad G 9. 70 12 49i I Pm li pm 114 xd 107 10 i 137 6{ dis THE SUN LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, MARCH 1, 1854. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. that the bill was introduced, in 1846, that this repeal was not unattended with inconvenient consequences to the lAndlord ; but it was after deliberate examination of the question, and after the inquiry it underwent before the Devon Commission, and the unanimous opinion of the five commissioners that this alteration should be made, that I introduced the measure to which I have referred. If I felt then that there were objections to this repeal, those objections are removed now. I rejoice, in the altered condition of Ireland,.that the power is no longer continued; and I should witness with regret the introduction of a provision which I cannot help thinking would be attended with much heart-burning and great discontent. It is unnecessary for me to go into the discussion of two of the bills of the noble earl, which are so very similar to those that came up from the other house last year, and which I have re-introduced on this occasion. The noble earl has stated the reasons which induced him not to introduce the third bill—the Tenants Improvement Compensation Bill. He stated, and stated correctly, that as regards prospective com pensation, there are provisions in the bills which he has introduced, and that he believes these provisions will be satisfactory and sufficient for that purpose. lam not quite certain that I can quite agree with him in this re spect ; but at any rate the noble earl does admit the principle of compensation for future improvements. Now, my lords, I cannot think that it would be so simple a matter to omit altogether from our legislation all compensation of a retrospective character ; and I be lieve the noble earl himself indicated that he had con siderable misgivings on this point when he said—and repeated it several times—that if these bills went to a committee, he, for one, would rejoice if a plan were de vised which would give to the tenants that compensa- ' tion to which he felt they had an equitable claim. I entirely participate in that feeling, and believe that, as regards the law, in Ireland especially, that you will not be able to pass a. satisfactory-measure on that question without legislating on this subject. (Hear, hear.) I anticipate, from the committee, that this question will be greatly elucidated ; and if my noble and learned friend beside me (Lord Campbell), and the noble and learned lord the late Lord Chancellor of England, and who for five years, with great credit to himself and satisfaction to Ireland, held the post of Chancellor of Ireland—if such noble and learned lord should consent to serve on the committee, I do hope that this question may be finally set at rest. But we must not lose sight of this fact, that the position of the north of Ireland is very peculiar as respects the question of retrospective compensation ; and if the noble earl refuses to legislate altogether on this subject, he must not tell us that he proposes simply to give compensation for prospective improvements, but he must also exempt the tenants of Ulster from the operation of the measure. If this exemption is not made, a very great injury will be inflicted on those who have enjoyed, rightly or wrongly, by long custom, a privilege I which they greatly value, and which, I believe, that the landlords of that district are by no means desirous to deprive them of. The noble earl said that the retro spective compensation clause was altered in the commit tee of the House of Commons. It was so, certainly ; but it was altered in the sense of a reduction of the in terest of the tenant. The noble earl said, and truly, that all the provisions affecting improvements made in the soil were entirely erased in the committee, and that no provisions remained excepting those relating to per manent improvements made upon the soil, the principle no doubt being that which was felt in the course of the discussion—viz., that improvements on the soil, such as buildings and so forth, are visible and tangible ; whereas other improvements, such as even that imost important improvement of drainage, are invisible and extremely difficult to calculate, and ought not to Le taken into ac count. The provision originally introduced in the House of Commons for retrospective compensation was based upon the two principles of the restriction of time and restriction of value—that was to say, that no com pensation should be clairised by the tenant beyond a certain amount, and that it should vary in amount ac cording to the anterior period at which the improve ments had been effected. (Hear, hear.) The principle was altered in committee of the House of Commons before the bill was passed in that house ; and as the bill now stands, it remains, at any rate, in a more simple form, namely, there is no restriction as to amount, and no restriction as to time; but it provides that for visible improvements made on the soil compensation shall be given by valuation made by public authority, viz., the assistant barrister. My noble friend (Lord Monteagle) has just now complained of the hardship to persons who, under the Encumbered Estates Act, have purchased property without any liability of this description being now exposed to claims for compensation, which they had no idea would be attached to the land they had bought. It is impossible to deny that there is some force in the objection of my noble friend ; but at any rate the objection is greatly restricted and the evil much mitigated by the 14th clause in this bill, which provides that every claim for retrospective compensation must be made within twelve months after the passing of the act, and registered accordingly. So that no claim subsequently to this twelve months can be preferred ; and any litigation which may take place on such a subject must be limited to the first twelve months after the passing of the act, and notice must be given by the tenant of his intention to claim any such compensation ; and it will be within the power of the landlord to litigate the point with the tenant if neces sary, and once the question is decided the claim cannot be renewed ; so that the landlord will be at once made aware of the demand to which he will be subject. My lords, I promised not to detain your lordships any longer, and I wish to keep my word, and more especially as I must again repeat, the noble earl has left me little ex planation to offer in regard to these bills. I sincerely trust that your lordships will refer the whole of the bills, including the one proposed by my noble friend behind me, who is connected with the north of Ireland, in order that persons representing all parts of that country may combine, and, if possible, come to the same conclusion, aye or no, on the question of compen sation to tenants. For as regards the other two bills, they are more consolidations of the law than new enact ments ; and I cannot but believe that, under the su perintendence of the noble and learned lords, they will be made sufficient for their purpose, and invaluable to Ireland. And I only hope that an earnest endeavour will be made by all parties to devise the means by which compensation for retrospective improvements can be 'given to the tenant consistently with the principles and the rights of property, which I can assure your lord ships I am as anxious as any one amongst you to main tain, not merely in this country, but also in Ireland. Lord CAMPBELL said that no one could be more alive to the importance of these bills than he was, which should be viewed not merely as having for their object the improvement of the agricultural prosperity of Ireland, but also the cultivation of harmony between the landlords and tenants. (Hear, hear.) He believed that Mr. Sharman Crawford, Mr. Serjeant Shee, and Mr. Napier were animated with the best intentions in pre paring their various bills on this subject. He had no hesitation in concurring in the provisions for giving en larged powers of leasing, which he thought might be given with perfect safety and security to the remainder man under settlement. He hoped that every encourage ment would be given to the granting of leases in Ireland. With regard to the law of landlord and tenant ,that was a most legitimate subject for consideration, and, in his opinion, it might be greatly improved. (Hear.) The first thing that should be done for the accomplishment of this object was to sweep away the 150 statutes which had been passed on this subject, so that they might have a tabula rasa, and be able to begin de novo. The far mer was a manufacturer in reality ; he was a manufac turer of barley, wheat, oats, beef, mutton, and pork, and he should be allowed some compensation for the buildings necessary to the carrying on of his trade. He believed that Mr. Pusey was right in the principle of his bill, though he had been rash in the mode he proposed for carrying it into effect. The right principle in his opinion was to leave the landlord and tenant quite free to enter into any contracts that they might agree upon. With respect to retrospective improvements, no answer had been given to the argument of his noble friend (Monteagle) that it would be a violation of the understanding on which property was purchased in the Encumbered Es tates Court, and his noble friend the noble duke did not venture to say that that principle did not trench on the rights of property. He was glad that the bills were to be referred to a committee, and he trusted that they would come out of it in such a shape as would give satis faction to all parties. (Hear, hear.) The Earl of CLANCARTY hoped that the result of their lordships' legislation would be a practical improve ment of the law. The clause which had been re-intro duced; giving the power of distraint on growing crops, was deprived of much of its objectionable character by the restrictions which were embodied in it. Some safe guard was necessary to the landlords to prevent tenants carrying off crops on Sundays. One great feature in the measures was that they encouraged short accounts ; what was commonly called an indulgent landlord was in reality the greatest enemy of his tenants. (A laugh.) Landlords who allowed rents to run in arrear for five or six years need not be surprised if they were never paid at all. He thought the fixture clause one of great im portance; it was the only part of the bill which had a really retrospective operation. He would have the prin ciple of compensation extended to buildings and erec tions in the nature of walls, though they were in reality part and parcel of the freehold. Generally speaking, the better the landlord, the greater the improvements effected by the tenants. After some observations from the Earl of Desart, Lord Dufferin, and the Lord Chancellor, the bills were read the second time, and referred to a select committee. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. HOUSE OF LORDS-(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. The Duke of ARGYLL presented petitions from Scotland against the support of Popery, also in favour of a national system of education in that country. Earl GREY presented a petition from the Newcastle Chamber of Commerce, 'praying for the formation of a harbour of refuge on the coast of Northumberland. The Earl of EGLINTON presented a petition from a place in Scotland in favour of the maintenance of the parochial education in that country. Lord REDESDALE moved "that no private bill should be read a second time after Tuesday, 11th July." " That no bill confirming any provisional order of the Board of Health, or authorising any enclosure of lands under special report of the Enclosure Commissioners for England and Wales, should be read a second time after Tuesday, 18th July." Agreed to. TESTAMENTARY JURISDICTION BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice that he should move the second reading of this bill upon that day week. Their lordships adjourned at 35 minutes to 10 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY. ) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. SECOND READINGS. The following private bills were read a second time and ordered to be committed :—Chapel-en-le-Frith Roads ; London and North Western Railway (Haydon Square, &c.) ; Great Southern and Western Railway ; Shrewsbury and Chester Railway (Sale or Lease) ; Thirsk and Yarm Road. Mr. E. BALL presented a petition from Cambridge praying the house to a adopt a system of decimal coinage. Mr. BOUVEIZIE presented a petition with the sloe prayer from the borough and to‘va co u ncil o f _ al. marthen. Mr. 0. STANLEY presented a Peti ti9r a from 300 electors' of 'Carmarthen, praying ~ for re m in the 'elec tive system. MINES. Agua Fria Anglo Austria. Gold Anglo Californian Australasian Australian Australian Cordillera' Australian Freehold Ave Maria Baden (Gd. Duchy of) Blaeuar von Ir. & Coal British Austria. Gold British Iron Brazilianlmp.(issued ) at £5 pm Do. Cocaes & Cuiada Do. St. Johu Del Rey I Carson'a Creek !Clarendon Con. Co. of Jamaica Cobre Copper • Colonial Gold Copiapo - Jopper Min. of Eng Do. Pref. 7. p. cent English and Austin, Copper Snieltg. Co General Great Nugget Vein Do. Registered Great Polgooth Liberty Linares Lond.&Californ.Gold; Quartz Crush. Co Nfariquita Nfexican&S.Amerien New Granada New Linares Mining and Smelting Co Nou!Tau Monde Pontgibaud Silyey Lead Min. di Smelt Port Philip Quartz Rock Ethymney Iron Do. New Santiago de Cuba south Australian Tin Croft United Mexican Waller West Granada West Mariposa Worthing Mining of Australia Yuba • Antwerp&Rotterdam Belgian Eastu. June Beziers to Graissessao Bombay, Baroda, and Central India, Scrip Central of Italy Charleroi & Erqueliu Demerara Dijon and Besancon Dutch Rhenish . East Indian Do. Extension Gt. Indian Peninsula Gd. Junct. of France Grd. Trunk of Canada Do. Debentures Do. do Gt. Central of France Gt.Westernof Canada Shares Do. Bonds (Ist is.)'s7 Hamilton & Toronto Do. 6 per cent. Lake Const. &•Basle Lucca & Pistoja 5 p.c pref Luxembourg Do. (Railway) Do. Pre Do. (Cana') Do. 6 p. ct. Lyons and Geneva Lyons & Mediterrar Vladms I Nfaria Antonia 00. do. New . Aelbourne Dk. & Ry Namur & Liege (with! interest) Do. (cx interest) Northern of France )o. 201. 3 p. c Bds (fmy. . B. dr Ams.Shs.) No rwegia.nTrunkPref Paris and Lyons Ditto Bonds ?iris and Orleans Paris and Rouen Paris and Stra.s - aourg ParisCaen dr Cherbrg Quebec dr Rlcluromi Rouen and Havrc Royal Danish Royal Swedish Sambre and Meuse Do. 5i p. cent. Pref Southern of France St. Andrew's and Quebec (A) West Flanders all Do. 51 per c. ['ref 10 Western of France 7 West. of Switzerland 2 Wiesbaden 15 Zealand —1) d 1 24 4 - id id 4d 9 11 d 7 _9d 4 5 li 2 11 28 30 i * d, 42 —44xd id — AI; 11 —l3 GO —7O 4 6p - d par d 1L 12 a i d 6 64 i— I d ad P 17 19 fi d 8P 28 30 8 10 a d 3i 3 3i add— d, al :GN. 3 a 1 3id LP ..• P 3i lid 21 2ip fi - i P - 2 d 1 p i - ... -IP dis 7 41 4i 1 1 li 1 ld Id 2 par ..• - • 71 - 7 29i - 30 7} - 12t - 13 p 42 —44 34 —36 ad' 28 29 pm 3 —• 1d ld pa . d 81 -- •.. ... - pm 3i -: d 2 .. i -3 ... --. 5 4a MARKET NEWS-(THIS DAY.) CORN EXCHANGE. The quantity of English wheat on offer in to-day's mar ket was very limited. As the attendance of buyers was but moderate, the amount of business doing in all kinds was comparatively small ; nevertheless the trade was con sidered tolerably firm, at full prices. We had only a limited inquiry for foreign wheat; but no alteration can be noticed in the quotations. Floating cargoes were quite as dear as last week. Barley was in good supply, and fair request, at full currencies. In malt very few transactions took place on former terms. Oats ruled steady, at extreme rates. Beaus, peas, and flour were dull, but not cheaper. ARRIVALS THIS WEEK. Barley. Malt. 3,530 “1,910 English .. [risk Foreign .. Wheat. 2,180 10,360 I 4,400 Oats. I Flour. 100 I 890 2,490 11,040 240 sks 12,950 brl WHITECHAPEL. Each kind of meat moved off slowly, as follows : Beef from 3s Od to 4s Os ; mutton, 3s 2d to 4s 8d ; veal, 4s Od to 5s 2d ; pork, 3s 4d to 4s 10d per 81bs by the carcase. BOROUGH HOP. Our market is very dull to-day, at drooping prices. LLOYD'S SHIPPING.-(THIS DAY.) LONDON, March I.—Wind this day at Noon, S. to S.W. ; light breeze, and fine, clear weather. MARGATE, Feb. 28.—Wind, N.W. by W. Arrived — Adolph, from Leith, for the West Indies ; Ida, Shields, for Civita Vecchia. DOVER, Feb. 28.—Wind, W. Sailed—Haabet, for Christiansand. PLYMOUTH, Feb. 28.—Wind, N.W. Arrived—H.M.S. Duke of Wellington, from Lisbon. Sailed—Himalaya (s s 1, for Malta. FALMOUTH, Feb. 28.—Wind, N. Arrived—Jane Morri son, from New York, with pumps choked, loss of bulwarks, short of water, and fuel and part of cargo thrown over board ; Elizabeth, Berdianaki. SHIELDS, Feb. 28.—Wind, N. Sailed—Dumsdale, for Jamaica ; Burlington, New York ; Brothers. Quebec. — The Sincerity, of Southampton, which struck on the Herd Sand on the 27th Feb., has broken up ; her materials, with part of cargo (pit pops), have been washed into the harbour. BRIDLINGTON, Feb. 28.—The Harkaway, from Hartle pool to Shoreham, and the Lochaber (sch.), of London, were in collision ; the former lost her bowsprit, and the latter her mainmast. _ _ _ CUXHAVEN, Feb. 24.—The Caledonia (s), for London, has put back with severe damage to her engines. (BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH.) LIVERPOOL, Wednesday, 10 a.m. Wind, S.W. ; moderate, and fine. No arrivals or sailing'. QUEENSTOWN, Feb. 27. Wind, S.W. ; strong. Arrived—Gebroeder, from Vienna ; Hannah Hicks, Tenez ; Mary Eleanor, Odessa ; Napoleon, Alexandria ; Agnes, Ibraila ; Emilia, River Plate ; Halcyon, Odessa ; Heroine and Island Queen, St. Michael's. (Br SUBMARINE AND EUROPEAN TELEGRAPH.) GRAVESEND, Wednesday, 9.52 a.m. Wind, W. ; tide, nearly low water ; fine. No arrivals. Sailed—Thomas Mitchell, for Calcutta ; Seine, Bou• logne ; Gem, Genoa; City of Rotterdam, Dunkirk. DEAL, Wednesday, 9.14 a.m. Wind, N.W. ; light, and hazy. Passed—Frances Henty, from London, for Portland Bay ; Heath, London, for Port Natal ; Wiltshire, London, or Palermo. DEATR OF LIEUT.-GENERAL JAMES HAY, C.B.— This gallant and venerable officer, colonel of the 79th Highlanders, died at Kelburne, near Longford, on Fri day last. PRICE OF GOLD.—The quotation. of gold at Paris is about 3 per mille discount (according to the last tariff), which, at the English Mint price of 3/. 17s. 10&d. per ounce for standard gold,,,gives an exchange of 25.091 ; and, the exchange at Paris on London at short being 24.971, it follows that gold is about 0.48 per cent. dearer in Paris than in London. Bir advices from Ham burg the price of gold is 422 per mark, which, at the English Mint price of 3/. 17s. 10161. per ounce for stan dard gold, gives an exchange of - 13.3 ; and, the ex change at Hamburg on London at short being 13.21, it follows that gold is 0.42 per cent. dearer in Hamburg than in London. The course of ex - A thange at New York on London for bills at 60 days' &tight is 109 per cent., and, the par of exchange between I?;ngland and America being 109 23-40 per cent., it follo vvs that the exchange is nominally 0.58 per cent. against England ; but, after making allowance for charges of tr. a .rasport and difference of interest, the present rate leas' es no profit on the transmission of gold either waj between the two countries. SUPPOSED MURDER IN LITEII POOL.—On Monday night one of the police inspectors o n duty discovered the body of a female in Lark-lane, ne: i r Liverpool, respect ably-attired, lying in the middle I)f the road. It was found upon examination that the roman had been shot, but there was nothing to indicate that she had com mitted self-destruction, and it is 1 i elieved that a murder had been perpetrated. Efforts ate being made to dis cover the relatives of the decease LI and the QAUNO of the royateri9u3 death. THE MILITIA FOR IRELAND. The Earl of WICKLOW inquired whether it was the intention of the Government to propose during the pre sent session any measure for embodying the Irish mi litia ; and if so, whether they proposed to form it under the old system established during the war, or under that adopted during the peace' _ _ The Earl of ABERDEEN said a bill would be intro duced this session in the other house by which power would be taken to modify the existing law respecting the militia in England. By that law power was ,given to extend the 80,000 men which had been raised to 120,000. It was now proposed to vary that and apply the act to Ireland. The Government intended to embody in Ire land a militia of 30,000 men, and in Scotland a militia of 10,000 men. It was, however, not proposed to embody the Irish militia this year. LEASING POWERS (IRELAND) BILL. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE moved the s;cond reading of this bill. He stated that this, and the Landlord and Tenant (Ireland) Bill, the second read ing of which he Would also move, were the same, with some minor exceptions, ,as those introduced into this house last session. The noble earl entered into an ex planation of the main provisions of the bill, which he observed had been carefully framed, so as to obviate any interference with the rights of property. He believed that a sound system of reform should be adopted—that they should reform where it was necessary—and that they should not reform merely because they thought that some other state of the law would be more applicable. Their case in Ireland was this : it was admitted that they required a reform—a long time had been spent in discussing what that reform should be—they had evi dence concerning the state of landlords and tenants in Ireland, and they certainly ought now to legislate on the subject ; but in England they should not do so, as it was not required ; although there was not a single provision in the bill which he did not believe to be just and equit able,r and if the state of circumstances in England re quired reform, there was not a provision of it that he should not be ready to advocate for that country as well as for Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He bad one great ground for bringing this subject under their lordships' notice. He had been for some years in the habit of attending to the management of lauded property in Ireland, and he found himself met at every turn by the difficulties of the law when he endeavoured to improve the estate, the occupiers of the estate, and the cottier population. It was from his experience of the faulty state of the law that he earnestly desired that a just and fair change should take place, and with that view he submitted those bills for their lordships' consideration. Lord MONTEAGLE did not wish to oppose the second reading of these bills, but he could not acquiesce in it without calling the attention of their lordships to some principles involved in them, against which he strongly protested. Prom the reign of Geo. 111., down to the present time, 60 bills had been passed for the pur pose of regulating the relations between landlord and tenant, and the result Was Well described by his noble friend (the Earl of Donoughmore) when he stated that his own attempt to improve the condition of his tenantry had been frustrated by the network of legislation which Parliament had in its want of wisdom passed. (Hear, hear.) The difficulty was, he believed, one of principle. Every attempt to legislate for people hav ing the ordinary interests of buyers and sellers would be infinitely more prejudicial to their real interests than it would be to leave them free to make whatever agree ments they pleased. (Hear.) He appealed to noble lords who had property in different parts of England whether many things which applied to the county of Northum berland were in the slightest degree applicable to the county of Dorset or of Sussex ? (Hear.) There were some species of tenant right, more or less, existing in every county, and the customary relation which existed in one part of the country would be totally inapplicable in another. His noble friend had referred to the question of contracts. He agreed with his noble and learned friend (Lord Campbell) that there was a great distinction to be drawn between contracts and legislation ; and if ever there was a bill which was a violation of all the principles on which contracts were founded, the present bills were of that nature. As the bill stood, the rights of property were trampled under foot. He believed that all oases, whether of the sale, lending, or hiring of land, finally resolved themselves into the commercial principle of open contracts, and should be dealt with in that way. He thought it was wrong to lay down any rule as to the length of leases. Leases of 21 years were common in England, of 19 years in Scotland ; but his noble friend laid it down that 31 years leases were best for Ireland. If these bills were really to become useful measures, it could only be done by imposing on the noble and learned members of their lordships' house the duty of assisting in the improvement of the clauses in committee. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said—My lords, I should certainly regret if any other course were to be taken with regard to the bills now before us than that which my noble friend (Lord Monteagle) proposes. lam sure that all your lordships join with me in regretting the absence of my noble friend the Marquis of Clanricarde, not only because we have not the advantage of his assistance in this debate, but from the lamentable cause which pre vents his attendance this evening. (Hear.) I therefore wish all these bills to be referred to a select committee, in order that they may be made the subject of the same inquiry. I rejoice that my noble friend has expressed his willingness that they should be so referred, although I am not quite certain that if I could feel the strong ob jections to the principles of the measure which he has stated I would follow the course which he is now about to adopt. I concur, undoubtedly, in much that has fallen from my noble friend as regards the principle of legislation in connection with the law of landlord and tenant. I entirely agree with the general principle which he laid down, that all these contracts relating to the buying and the letting of land resolve themselves into the category of ordinary commercial transactions, and are much better left as far as possible to be decided between the two - contracting parties. But when my noble friend draws a picture of a Scotch tenant from the Lothians going into the county of Mayo or Galway, and taking land there, and states the impression that he would be greatly deterred from taking land when you present him with one of these bills, supposing them to become law, I must remind my noble friend of the posi tion that the tenant is in when he goes to Ireland now. Does he find his relations with his landlord a simple mat ter of contract and bargain between him and the land lord from whom he is about to take the land ? By no means. The principle has been violated for centuries, and there are on the etatute book at this moment upwards of 200 statutes legislating for landlord and tenant, all affecting the question of contract more or less directly, and infringing that principle which, in the abstract, I entirely agree with my noble friend is right. I say then that we are not now in a position to discuss whether legislation is right, but whether we cannot amend the legis lation which already exists. My noble friend objects to legislation regarding the period of a lease, and thinks it wrong to lay down as a general rule that the landlord may, under certain circumstances, give a lease of 31 years to the tenant. Why the bills of the noble earl (the Earl of Donoughmore) and the bills which came from the House of Commons last year are not dealing de novo with this subject. The law of Ireland regarding leases is in a most anomalous and ridiculous position—in so absurd a position that one class of landlords may give leases of two or three years, and another class of landlords, under precisely similar circumstances, except that their title is different, may give leases of a much longer duration. I think that every species of dignitary in the Church is now enabled to grant leases of varying durations; and, in fact, the law of Ireland at this moment is not only in the most ridiculous but in a most inconvenient and pre judicial condition. Now the noble earl opposite has cer tainly saved me from the necessity of troubling your lordships with any lengthened observations on this occa sion. I took the liberty of trespassing at some length on your lordships' attention, on the second reading of these bills, when they came up from the House of Com mons last session, after the most careful d e lib er ation in that house. I then stated the nature of the bills to the best of my ability ; but certainly, if I was not sufficiently sensible of the inadequacy of my explanation on that occasion, I am more sensible of it now, after the speech of the noble earl, who has to-night supplied the deficiency in my explanation ; but as a great portion of his obser vations apply to the provisions both of the bills which he has introduced and of the bills which came up from the House of Commons last year, and which I have re introduced on this occasion, it is quite unnecessary for me to go over the ground again. The noble earl, how ever, must not suppose that because I have introduced two of these bills in the same form as they came up from the House of Commons, I therefore consider any alterations in his bills otherwise than as amend ments. I have brought them in as they stand simply because I considered, under the engagemen t into which we entered la st session, that that was the most convenient mode of fulfilling it ; and if we are ever to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion on the subject, there is an advantage in starting in the committee with the bills in the same form as the House of Commons, after a careful deliberation of some months in a select committee, constituted of representatives of all parties, without distinction of politics, sent them up to your lordships. The noble earl instanced a clause in one of the bills which I introduced that he says he has altered, viz., a clause giving power to the encumbrancer in pos session to grant leases under certain circumstances ; and I myself think it desirable that that clause should be omitted ; and if I am able, in committee, I shall cer tainly vote against that clatse. There is another clause which the noble earl proposes to which I cannot so en tirely assent. He proposes to introduce ieto his bill a clause that was omitted by the House of Commons after very mature consideration, viz., the revival of the power of distraint over growing crops. I think the other house came to a right decision in leaving out that clause. The law in Ireland gave the power of distraint over growing crops up to the year 1846, but in that year it was re pealed by , a bill which I myself introduced into the other house, being then Secretary for Ireland. My lords, I believe that if it was right to repeal that measure, it would be wrong to re-enact it now. I felt at the time 1 10 1 1 all all all all 12s. 7 3 8 2s. 10 5 20 20 20 176 20 20 20 20 20 25 100 100 20 20:3 100 20 10 20 20 20 33i 20 20 20 10. f all 10 10i all lli i VENTILATION OF THE H OUSE. On the motion that the house at its ti ,sing should ad journ till two o'clock to-morrow, Mr. SPOONER called the attention of the house ;o the abominable state of ventilation of the house. (Hear, hear.) He spoke feelingly, for 103 e air that was " pumped " into the house and for whi cl i they had paid some 200,0001. was so filled with dust that it brought on an attack upon him from which he w: as now suffering. If the matter were not attended to h e certainly would move for a committee to inquire into i;he matter. Fie could find them places in the house free zing in one con ner and scorching in another. (Hear, :hear.) Mr. W. PATTEN also bore testimo ay to the bad state of the ventilation. Mr. HUMS said if Mr. S. Gurney . had an oppor tunity of carrying out his views as to the ventilation of the house, he would for a very small exi iense put the house in a good condition as regarded vent ilation. Pro bably public money never was so squandered as h a d been the case in this matter, and he hoped it would lie taken up by the proper authorities. (Hear - , hear.' Mr. MUNTZ said this was another instance of the evil effects of the Government undertaking: , the duties of a factory. (Laughter.) Mr. BOUVERIE said a good deal of the difference of opinion that existed on this subject was owing to the different conditions in which hon. members came into the house. Some hon. members came in after having a good dinner and a fair share of wine, and they com plained that the house was intolerably hot, while th.nse who had been in the house for some hours were chille d. He himself had sat as many hours last session in this house as any hon. member, not even excepting the Speaker, and if the ventilation had been so very bad as was said, he would have suffered more from it than he certainly had suffered. (Hear, hear.) PRIVATEERING. Mr. M. GIBSON gave notice that on this day week he should move that an address to the Crown be pre sented praying her Majesty not to grant letters of marque to any vessel. VINE DISEASE. _ _ Mr. SPOONER asked if the doyen:pent had re ceived any report relative to the rumoured failure of the vine crop in various wine growing countries. Mr. CARDWELL said the Government received such reports, and had no objection to produce them.. Mr. SPOONER then moved .that the reports re ferred to be laid upon the table. Agreed to. RUSSIA AND THE INDIAN PRINCES. Mr. LIDDELL asked if an alliance, defensive and offensive, had been concluded between the Czar of Russia and the Kkans of Bokhara and Khiva, and the King of Cabool. Si; C. WOOD replied that he believed there was no truth whatever in this report. UNSTAMPED PUBLICATIONS. Mr. LUCAS wished to ask the Chancellor of the Ex chequer whether it is the intention to acquiesce in the verdict given in the Court of Exchequor in Dublin in the ease of Mr. Shaw's Penny Oommercial Journal. In this case the jury found a verdict for the defendant If the Government did not acquiesce in the verdict, was it the intention of the Government to enforce their no- tion of the law with reference to The Builder and The Atheneum. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the Government did not intend to acquiese in the verdict, but it would be premature to answer the other question. ACCIDENTS IN MINES. Mr. CALEY enquired if the Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department had received any in formation of the recent coal mine accident in Wigan. Mr. FITZROY said his attention had been drawn to this lamentable occurrence, and a Government officer had been sent down to attend the inquest. LAW OF BRIBERY. Sir F. KELLY wished to ask the noble lord the member . for the city of London when he intended to proceed with his bill for the consolidation of the law of bribery. Lord J. RUSSELL would answer the question to morrow. CONVENTUAL ESTABLISHMENTS. Mr. T. CHAMBERS then rose to move for a select committee to inquire into the number and rate of in crease of conventual and monastic institutions in the United Kingdom, and the relation in which they stand to existing law ; and to consider whether any, and, if any, what further legislation is required on the subject. He brought this subject forward in a civil, social, and po litical sense, and not as a religious question. He should endeavour to avoid exciting any religious animosity by confining his arguments to facts which he had obtained from the Roman Catholic registry. According to that authority there were 75 convents in England, and 128 in Ireland, making in all 203 convents. The same authority told him that in 1843 there were only 53 of these institutions in Great Britain and Ireland, thus showing the enormous increase of 400 per cent. within ten years, and proving the absolute ne cessity for an immediate inquiry into their cha racter. (Hear.) In January, 1853, there were in existence no less than 72 monasteries in Ireland, while in 1843 there were not more than 60 ; in other worth, there had been an increase upon the ten years of 20 per cent. in monasteries. Now that was a very grave fact, and one which ought to be inquired into and investigated by a country professing the Protestant faith without offending the followers of the Roman Catholic Church. It was a mistake to suppose that the Roman Catholic laity were opposed to such an inquiry, although some of them might be, and he hoped there would be no objec tion to his motion on that ground. Many of these in stitutions were opposed to the spirit of the English law as established by acts of Parliament, they had been esta blished, indeed, in open violation of the existing statute law, and on that accounthe contended there ought to be some inquiry into their numbers or character. Monas tic establishments were decidedly at variance with the law, while as for convents they stood in the highly inconvenient and inexpedient situation of having no re lations whatever to the law. They were neither ignored nor recognised by the law, and as such a state of things could not be permitted any longer to continue he thought that was an additional reason why the enquiry he asked for should be had. (Hear.) But, besides their numbers, there was much danger in the manner in which these convents were conducted ; for many of the inmates were confined in them in opposition to the wish of their parents or their own will. (Hear.) He could say nothing about the doctrines taught in these conventual estab lishments, though they were certainly none of the soundest ; but he thought, upon political grounds alone, the house was bound to institute the in quiry to ascertain the treatment the inmates were subject to which history proved was both coercive and severe. Convents were places of restraint or infliction, where the most excruciating torments were practised upon the nuns and novices, and it was an abuse of social and political right to allow them to remain longer in this country without investigation. It was argued that any interference would be an evasion of the doctrine of religious toleration, and that his bill of last session in fringed religious liberty. He defied any hon. member to put together any collocation of words whatever which showed that that bill infringed religious liberty. On the contrary, he contended it was one of the strongest efforts made in modern times to protect it. (Hear, hear.) What he said was, let spiritual influence take full effect on body, soul, and spirit, but not upon the conscience. (Hear, hear.) The very instant the spiritual power loosened its hold, the ecclesiastical power should be made to relax. There should be no ecclesiastical, and, above all, no physical, barriers in the way of a nun re turning to the world. (Cheers.) Let them keep her, though in the agonies of religious terror, whilst under the spiritual power ; but if she repented, if doubts as to the truth of the Roman Catholic tenets or the usefulness, admissibility, or lawfulness of monastic vows, or her calling to live under them—if doubts sprung up and germinated, and the spiritual power, which did hold and bind her in fetters, was broken, in the name of liberty he asked that she should be allowed to return to the world. (Loud cheers.) It was time we should under stand what religious liberty was. When the noble lord brought forwards bill about Papal aggression, he thought that a direct and flagrant infringement of the religious liberties of the Roman Catholics. (Hear.) If what was then done had been upon spiritual and religious grounds he should not have objected at all ; but the bill was not spiritual, it was purely ecclesiastical. (Hear.) Another argument was, that though it was quite true many nuns repented and lived lives of great suffering in consequence of taking vows rashly, their condition arose out of an antecedent contract, and the State must not interfere. The law recognised no such contract. The law knew nothing of religious or monastic vows. No subject could contract to surrender her liberty. It was not within the moral competency of any one to do so; and therefore, supposing the original contract ad mitted, which it was not, and the constraint to be lawful under the non-natural consent of the party, the moment that consent was withdrawn, the deten tion become a flagrant infringement (Hear.) Black of liberty, and an infringemnt of the gravest ciaract Black atone laid down the princ i ple that r every one was en titled to his liberty, and that no one could deprive him of it, not even the hig hest p ower of the State, without tint But that was done every day bei n g called to acco ho was in nunneries. Every person w desirous to get out and could not was a palpable instance of a gross in fringement on the liberty of the subject. Another and more serious matter was the connection with other simi lar establishments in foreign countries. Dr. Wiseman admitted that these associations in England were ea ' liated with associations abroad. There was not only a power to imprison and a power to torture, but a power to transport. It was done. The house would recol lect the case of the Taunton convent. Miss Knight, one of the inmates, was extremely ill. Her brother, with the consent of the Roman Catholic bishop, wished another physician to see her. Miss Jerningham, the lady abbess, utterly refused, though the physician was a Roman Catholic, and the consent of the bishop had been obtained. The brother asked if she might go to a nunnery at Bristol. The superior said, " No, there could not be a worse place than Bristol, she was going to Belgium." And if it had not been for the most earnest remonstrances, to Belgium Miss Knight would have gone and died there, for she did die soon afterwards. Who mild say then that nunneries were not now NO* they were in the middle ages ? He would like to know what instance of tyranny in the middle ages exceeded that? It was said if Parliament interferred they gave an official sanction to these instructions. They could not pass an act against any wrong without recognising its existence ; but whatever sanction Parliament could give, was given already. The executive clause of tl . Na Catholic Relief Act distinctly gave that sanction. The% had been an & dive !hip that night, and he knew Mir) was a great desire to crush this inquiry. But he warn the Government that a dozen years hence, if these insti tutions went on increasing in the same ratio, there w o uld be - 1,000 ; in 25 years 2,000 or 3,000, with 40,0()0 or 50,000 or 60,000 nuns; and what did the house suppose would be the amount of property. (Hear.) There was a dispute, he saw between Cardinal Wiseman and Mr. H. Seymour as to the sum to be paid for dower—whether it should be 200/. or 400/. It was plain there was a very large and constant flow of wealth into these establish ments, and no flow out of them. They knew that at the suppression, at the time of the Reformation, one-fi ft h of the whole property o f t h e kingdom was in their hands. They knew what their numbers were, and they knew that both in numbers and property they had never in creased more rapidly than in the last five years. At some point or other the Government must interfere, and he would submit to the noble lord that it was as well to , begin with 220 as to wait until they were 800 or 3,500, with thousands or millions of money. Th;e, he con tended, was the right time to interfere, and not years hence, when the arguments could not be stronger, and when the difficulties to meet might be much oTeat,9r. A great deal was made of interf er i ng with cloi stered nuns and sisters of charity. If they pleased, the nuns might go on enjoying the same Catholic symbols, rituals, : ,:nd observances, and the sisters of charity might follow their rounds of benevolence without being interfered with.. He would not say a word against either. No doubt they were acting in what they believed to be their concientious line of duty. He did not wish the question to be met with compliments to the sisters of charity, but to be met on this ground—were these institutions safe religiously, socially, and politically ? (Hear, hear.) If the noble lord was of that opinion, let him get up and say so ; , but he (Mr. Chambers) felt most strongly that these insOtu tions were linked together and formed a part of the most subtle, most profound, most sagacious, and most endur-- ing scheme of Government which had ever been founded on the face of the world. He meant the Papacy. (Cheers.) In proportion as they flourished did the poli tical schemes of that Government flourish, and in pro portion as they failed would that Government fail. (Hear, hear.) When the noble lord saw the politico ecaesiastical progress of the Papacy, could he imagine that there was no cause for it. It was not that they gained a great accession of numbers from new converts ; but these institutions multiplied in the face of a decreas ing number of real members of the Roman Catholic Church, and they had a direct effect upon the power of the Papacy. (Hear, hear.) Then, again, with regard to education. He did not object to the youth of both sexes learning Roman Catholic teaching, but he objected to their learning it in nunneries and mona steries. They must look gravely at that question. The time would come when those who had been in structed in tenets destructive of the institutions of the country would stand up and argue upon those opinions. It was not a question of sectarianism ; it was a question of the British constitution. (Hear.) It was a question .of a constitution every slope and angle of which had b een arranged to meet the flow and pressure of free Christianity—he meant free Christianity as distinguished from the most slavish Christianity ever known in this country, which now prevailed amongst the Roman Catholic body. (Loud cheers.) In Roman Catholic times we had a free Christianity, but not a pure one. (Renewed cheers.) It appeared to him that the slavish system of education was propagated in religious houses, that those institutions themselves were altogether opposed to the constitution of this country, and that no constitu tion could be safe whilst surrounded by such insidious and increasing perils. (Loud cheers,) The hon. member concluded by moving for the appointment of the com mittee. Mr. NAPIER said he found in every Roman Catho lic country a very jealous system of legislation with re ference to conventual establishments, and the question was, whether our law in this respect was in a satisfac tory condition. It was the duty of the State to main tain its own independence and the supremacy of its law, and to protect the freedom of its subjects against a foreign Power ; and the effect of his argument was to show that the law, unsatisfactory as it was, was violated by con nivance, and that the restraints hich the vows taken in monastic establishments imposed upon liberty, property, and even the allegiance of the subject, gave this matter claims to the serious consideration of Parliament. He supported the motion. Mr. M'CANN gave a direct contradiction to some statements contained in a letter read by. Mr. Chambers. Mr. J. BALL, who had given notice of his intention (which he relinguished) to move a resolution that it is not just or expedient to subject to Parliendntary inquiry associations of ladies devoting themselves exclusively to charitable and religious objects, who do not possess, or seek to possess, any peculiar legal privilege or immunity, observed, with reference to the statistics quoted by Mr. Chambers, that there was not o n e o f th ese i ns tit u ti on s in Ireland , and only two in England, not devoted to educational, charitable, or reformatory objects, and he complained of the many gross mis-statements circulated upon this head. He contended that Mr. Chambers had shown neither reason nor precedent for an alteration of the law, which would be exceptional and offensive, and he protested against an inquiry into the mode of living and intimate social existence of these ladies, without the slightest ground being assigned for so degrading and irri tating a proceeding, which would rekindle the embers of religious and political agitation in Ireland. After a few remarks by Mr. POTTER, who com plained of the insult which the motion offered to Roman Catholics. Mr. R. PHILLIMORE said, if the object of the motion was to drag before a committee of that house ladies of high rank and delicate feelings, and to make an inquisition into private concerns, he should offer his strenuous opposition to so monstrous an object ; but the terms of the motion placed it in a different aspect. Xt could not be denied that the state of the law upon thi3 subject was most anomalous and inconvenient, and that it might be altered in a manner not offensive to Roman Catholics. Ho cited cases to show the defects and ano malies of the law; and although he did not approve of the speech of Mr. Chambers, he urged upon Roman Catholic members that it was greatly for their interest: not to oppose the motion, since they had no reason to dread any investigation into their conventual establish ments, and it would put a stop to a repetition of these motions. Mr. FAGAN related some particulars of a case refer. red to by Mr. Chambers, contending that the facts were adverse to his argument. There might be, he observed, discontented nuns, but there were rules in every con vent which allowed them to leave it. He opposed the motion. Mr. ROCHE objected to the motion on principle, and because it had been introduced in a disingenious spirit and in bad taste. Mr. KENNEDY shortly opposed the motion. Lord C. HAMILTON, disclaiming all persecuting and sectarian views, thought there was sufficient evi dence to show that there was something very peculiar in the position of the inmates of convents in this country which required investigation. Mr. J. PHILLIMORE hoped the house would not assent to the motion, which it was impossible to separate from the speech by which it was introduced, and which must be considered as insulting to every one professing the Roman Catholic religion. The case of Mr. Chao hers he regarded as a very weak one, and he suggested to him that the way to promote true religion was not to 4 employ the means used to enforce a false one. kr:MAGUIRE denounced in strong terms the mo tion and the mover, and eulogised the character of the conventual ladies and their offices in the service of edu cation and charity. But for them, he said, the poor female children in Ireland would be without moral training. He insisted on the ill effect which these mo tions would produce in Ireland. He based his rejection of this motion upon the assertion made by a precediog speaker, that the speech which introduced it was a tissn'e of frivolous and calumnious gossip. Mr. F. W. RUSSELL, without entering into the general question, pointed out the beneficial influence of these conventual establishments upon industrial employ ment in the south of Ireland. He opposed the motion, for which he thought no ground had been laid. Mr. MIA.LL said, as a general rule, in questions es to inquiries touching the religious convictions and habi.ts and proceedings of any portion of her Majesty's subjects.. he had regard to two conditions —one, that there should be a solid groundwork of facts, showing prima facie reasons for an inquiry ; the other, that there was a strong probability, supposing the facts were proved, that legislation could provide a sufficient remedy for the evil. He thought no facts had been produced which justified a call for inquiry ; and that, supposing evils to be proved to exist, arising, as they did, from spiritual influence, he believed they were not to be remedied by legislation, and it was most unwise at this moment to encourage a motion the effect of which was to set one denomination against another. Mr. COWAN said the question had excited great interest in Scotland, and he should feel it neces sary to vote for the motion. He had no unkind feeling towards the Roman Catholic community. (Hear, hear.) The whole case was in a nutshell ; whether the kernel was likely to be worth getting at he did t he motions f n a o c t t know. saas stehe r ascertained. present,aßut u s dt .if w t e he wo t u ru ld th av m o u id st tbhee got of t l at, such a (Hear.) He did not doubt that the Sisters of Mercy or Charity were actuated by the purest spirit, and often set a good example to Protestants. It was, however, necessary to arrive at the truth upon the subject. He was surprised at the ominous silence of the Government on the question. (Hear and laughter.) Lord J. RUSSELL—Sir, the only difficulty I feel is that the arguments in favour of the motion have been completely overthrown by several members who have spoken, especially the hon. member for Carlow and the hon. member for Rochdale. And besides, I took a part in the debate on a similar question last year, and I have little to add to the reasons I then gave for resisting the motion. It appears to ins, sir, however, that those who have brought forward and supported the motion to-night have been a little ashamed—not to say afraid—of it ; for they have destroyed the little ground there was for adopts ing it. Because they have said, the inquiry is to be x conducted with such delicacy ; there is 110 question to be asked of these ladies to which they can ta ke an y e would, ception—thev need not be afraid of anything that be offensive to them. Why, sir, eith er the inquiry must be one thing or the other. (Hear, hea r.) into it is to be an inquiry (as it is Itete p ro p os ed ) tual establishments, and their relation to. . law," the " number_ and rate of increase the convenes can be of no use. And if it be an inquiry into tne r eal state of these institutions, it mu st be an inquiry i n or der to examine whether there are any facts to sustain of con the rse, inquiry been brought forward ; and then,. the allegations of ill-usage and imprisonment that have tend. But, s ir, I becomes exposure, and there is an end to all that deli cacy to which hon. gentlemen pre __ con. fess that if I believed that there were places where pet wa s denied to those who wished to exer cisesonal liberty there were scenes of tyranny constantly enac i t, ea I should pay %way with and if their walls, U [ Y). 5 10 St. 5 16i 10 St. St. St. 15 8 10 10 25 10 1.01 56 6 1I 80 i i I ~~ ~..: