The Sun. — London, England, 1830-02-12 00:00:00

isle' , 0 e ye up° eased. I c,in assure the !rouse that I rtu ,st strongly sYrnpathize with it in this feeling, and that I shall n at, therefore, detain it for many minute: z. I shall, act'ordingiy, at once proceed to disemba rrass this question of the many allusions, personal ant, I political, IY .„hich it h as p l ease d m y Ri g h t H on . F r i end (Mr. t luskisso n ) to heap upon it in an extreme ly desul tory 4pvech, that I must beg leave to say . I do not consider worthy either of his talents or h is great ht ttainments. My Right Hon. Friend ha intro duced many topics arid advanced many argu "its which I think it must be on al 1 hands ',flowed have no very close connection with t he question upon which we are called on to decide. '"LY Right lion. Friend ha , : said he expects that his :qhj esty ' s Government are prepared to ail :)pt the Principles of Mr. Canning, because we he ce ap pointed a learned arid diitinguished inc lividual to the office of Attsrm y-General, which .he had held under the Admini,:tration of that Gent lemur, arul because we have elevated another eminer it per- B ° , l to the situation of Lord Chief Baron of Scot 1511d. My Right Hon. Friend then passes ; t high encomium upon the talents, and learnine, ate I cite ticter of Sir James Scarlett, in which I mot t cor dially concur; an'l he also pronounces a par iegyric e qually warm and equally well merited up on the Lord Chief Baron of Scotland. Neither, Sir, to this can I possibly have the least objection. I rejoice I n my political connection with a gentleman 30 pro r"odly learned in the Etielish and Scotch law ; and I feel proud of our having selected a gee tleman for promotion who cannot fail to do honour to the si tuation.► therefore concur in the panegyrit ;: but I really cannot allow that it of necessity fo Flows, either from this or from the other appointment, that We are to adopt the principles of Mr. Canning,, end follow his example by transferring the elective fran ohise from East Retford to the town of Birn iny ham.—(Cheers.)—And, Sir, if we were to fo glow the example of Mr. Canning on other occasions, as, for inetatice, in the ease of Grampound, so far Would we be from attending to the recornmentla tions of my - 11;LOit Hon. Friend, that we shou Id precisely pursue the course that we are about I o pursue. Neither, Sir, do I see that my allusion to my non. Friend the Member for Sussex as a pr o• per person to represent the interests of the grot,vt firs of wool on time East India Committee, is so excee lively ridiculous; nor indeed, Sir, can I pee wl tat connection it has with the borough of East E et .,,r`ird.—(Cheers.)—l do not feel the force of my Itight Hon. Ft fiend's ridicule. I said upon a fort ner occasion, and I now repeat it, that I do consider that in a question so materially affecting the lant led interests as that upon which the East India Coen rnittee would be engaged, there should be at lea st one Member connected whh the wool trade. Si'r, I do recollect that in the able speech with which th e nerl. Member opposite (Mr. Wolrych Whitmore) introduced the question respecting the trade anti commerce of our East India possessions to the House, he did expressly state that in time northern Parts of China a vast market might be opened for our woollen goods.—(Hear, hear.)—Thus, then, Sir ; it would appear that there is an extensive op portunity for trade, and why then should I be blamed for introducing a Member to represent the interests of those producing the article in which the c ommerce would be carried on? Believing, then, Sr,i that there must be a possibility of supplying the northern parts of China with our woollen manu fsetures, presuming that the production of wool is connected with these woollen manufacture, do not think it unreasonable to put one gentleman upon that Commit tee—(Heae)— sOll therefore did I feel or fear no ridicule in put ting Mr. Burrell on a Committee occupied upon the subject of commerce to China.—(Cheers.)—Now,' Sir, with res p ec t t o the alleged preponderance of a Landed Aristocracy in this House, I beg Hon. Gentlemen to examine if the landed interest really be pred om i nant . F or observe, my Right Hon. leriend objects to the introduction of even one re presentative of a particular branch of the landed in terest ; and he wished me to remove one Hon. Mem ber for Yorkshire (Mr. Stuart Wortley), who is a landed proprietor, and to place upon it the other Member (Mr. Marshall), who is a commercial man - -(Hear, hear,)—instead of the almost single re presentative of the landed interest.—(Hear, hear.) —I confess, Sir, I do not see that proof of the pre ponderance of the landed interest ; I do not repent having placed Mr. Burrell upon the Committee; I do not regret my not having consented to put Mr. Marshall in the place of Mr. Stuart Wortley; I do not feel that there was any thing SO extremely un just in my not having removed from a Committee of thirty-three, consisting, in far the greater part, of gentlenten connected with the manufacturing inte rests, the ouly Members to represent the great and ancient staple commodity of the country.—( Cheers.) Now, Sir, I will address myself to the immediate merits of the subject under discussion. Sir, it appears there are four courses offered to us. The first is to isiote the writ for the return of Members for East Retford at once. There are some who suppose that the evidence of bribery and corruption in this borough is not complete; or they think that so much time has elapsed since this bribery took place, that the borough has suffered infficient punishment by the suspension of its franchise.— T he second proposition is that of the Hon. Member for Hertfordshire (Mr. N. Calvert), and it is to throw the righ t o f Ton i ng into the hundred of Baseetlaw. The third is to transfer time Elective Franchise to Birmingham. The fourth is the amendment of the Noble Lon! opposite (Lord Howick), who calls upon us to pronounce a sweep in; censure upon all the cities and boroughs of Great as guilty of notorious end general delinquency.- B n - , I intend to adopt the proposition of my lion. Fiiend, and vote for the transferring of the franchise to the Hun dred of Ibutsetlaw. 1 object to the first, because I have arrived at the conclusion that although there might not have been strictly legal proof of the guilt of individual freeholders, yet was there evidence sufficiently strong to br ing conviction to my mind that the prevailing character of the borough was that the many were liable to the charge of corruption, and that, therefore, there were the greatest objections to issuing the writ. I think, then, Sir, that considering the feeling produced in this House by the evidence respecting East Retford, and the opinions which it has heretofore expressed, there would now be extreme lenity iu neglecting to pnnisk those corrupt practices of Whosaexistence we must be satisfied. Now, with respect *.to the Noble Lord's amendment, I shall beg to say a few Words. I can assure tl.e Noble Lord I have always much Pleasure in hearing him speak. His statements are always clear and satisfactory, and brought forward in a banner that reflects touch honour on him. But I am lentnal to say that I have great objection to his motion.— calls upon us to adopt, without proof, a resolution Which would condemn all our cities and boroughs guilty of c orruption. Now, Sir, I for one never can bring myself to agree to this. But even supposing that the Noble Lord be Perfectly sorreet in his opinion—supposing that bribery • and corruption be universal in th e cities and boroughs— tlB fact, Si r , wou ld only str e ngthen the arguments and °fur nish us with additional reasons in favour of his Hon. ilend's moti o n ; for thus condemning all the cities and b oroughs, he excludes the counties from the charge of bri tSrY, and so holds out the strongest possible inducement p us to vote for the transfer of this franchise to a body of fr eehold representatives, which is, perhaps, awl which I really believe to be, the most pure.—(Cheers.)—Now 114 13, Sir, if I am to choose between a freehold and a bo tough constituency, I cannot, of course, hesitate to decide fur that which appears least open to bribery and corrup tin n ; and therefore should I select that class for East Het -°r(l--(Hear.)--13ut, Sir, the House will pause before it "ries to a conclusion upon a charge that has not been proved. I am quite sure that the Members for cities and °r erishe will never consent to having so great a stigma t ea : t upon their constituents without proof.—(liesr.)— I e n if I were to admit the truth and justice of the charge, th ould now call on the Noble Lord for a Bill to prevent s uch practices, because it ought at once to follow such a resolution as that proposed by the Noble Member. But, Sir, I cannot even consent to include in that general charge of bribery and corruption the borough which I have the honour to represent.—(Hear, and laughter.)—l can never be induced to allow that my respectable constituents are deserving of the censure which the Noble Lord would so Generally and unsparingly inflict.—(Hear, and laughter.) must beg to have the borough of Westbury erased front his li s t. Ile is a county Member, and therefore care tsl• ll* avoids throwing out any reflections against the free • dem who returned him. '?rd HOWICK stated he was not a county Member. t 4 , 1 7 1; Secretary PEEL—Oh, th en , if h e c h ooses tolimit 4 ltt ttnd the responsibility tO the place he himself sat Air, and if his colleague will support him, I am sure I cannot take it upon me to object.—(Lnughter. )—But I certainly will not consent to have my respectable censti tuents condemned without better evidence; and I am con vinced the Hon. Baronet (Sir G. Warrender) will unite with me in protesting against the inexpediency and in justice of the charges preferred by the Noble Lord.— (Hear, hear, and laughter.)—Now, with respect to the Hundred of Basserlaw, I think my Right Hon. Friend was misunderstord ! for myself I can only declare that I have not abandoned those principles which served to guide my conduct upon a former occasion. I always thought that a eve like this should be judged en abstract reasons; and I must say that my Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Huskis son) spoke this night i❑ a manner altogether unworthy his great talents and acquirements, when he endeavoured to raise a prejudice against the Hundred of Bassetlaw by allusions to the Dukery, and to the hundred--times-told stories of last year. The House will recollect, that during the di , cuesioes of last year it was insinuated that the elec tive franchise WAS to he transferred to the Hundred, in consequence of an understanding with his Grace the Duke of Newcastle. I then stated, upon my honour, that no communication upon the subject of East Retford had ever been made by Government to that Nobleman; and now, considering the very decided opposition his Grace has declared against the Ministry, I do not think it is very likely that we shall be accused of endeavouring to promote any great political object by the transfer.—(Hear, hear.) But, Sir, notwithstanding the Duke of Newcastle's opposition, I see no reason to change the opinions I formerly advocated or the course I deemed it advisealde to pursue.—(Hear, hear.)—Sir, I have reason to believe that his Grace's interest is not preponderant in the borough. There are in that borough 2,000 respect able freeholders, and I have reason to doubt if any interest can command these freeholders.—(Hear.) I beg to have it understood that I fun not opposed to extending the right of voting to loge towns when a case of flagrant and gene ral bribery has been clearly proved against a borough. I did vote, it will be recollected, for the transfer of the elec tive franchise from Penryn to Manchester. I did then concede the principle, that the franchise of un offending borough ought to be transferred to a large town, when the county iu which that borough lay was adequately represented. By this course I then regulated my con duct. But Ido not think the case of East Retford conies within the limits 1 have laid down. There are pecu liar circumstances connected with this borough ; I will not, however, trouble the House by entering upon them at present ; this subject has already occupied our atten tion eight or ten times; and after all the evidence hail been gone through, the question was decided by a ma jority of the House in favour of Bassetlaw ; and really, Sir, I do ❑ot now see anything that has occurred since June last, which should induce us to transfer the right of voting to Birmingham instead of Bassetlaw. I am un willing, Sir, to repeat any of those arguments which have been inflicted on the House to satiety, if not actually to nausea : but I wish simply to observe, that the county of Nottingham returning only eight Members, I do not see any sufficient reason for reducing this number to six, by giving two to Birmingham. On the contrary, I con►ider it would be an act of great injustice, and of very indif ferent policy—the mere especially as, by pursuing another course, we shall have the advantage of punishing the delin quent!), while the innocent continue to enjoy their rights. And, Sir, to adopt the uncommon, but very forcible ex pression, of an Hon. Member, we shall have that opportu nity of punishing the delinquents by sisticiv them with 2,000 ♦otes from Bassetlaw. On these grounds, then— thinking it for the credit of the House that has eight or ten times come to this conclusion—not believing that there is a preponderance of the landed interest in the House—and perfectly convinced that an adherence on the present occa c.on to the line of conduct formerly pursued by us is fitter th a❑ a departure from it—l shall, with the utmost con fidence, give my vote for the transfer of the franchise to the hundred of Beasetlaw.—(Hear, hear. )—Before I sit down, however, lam flexions to say one word. I hope, what ever may he the decision of this night, there will be no un necessary delay. I can assure my Right Hon. Friend, that if he should succeed, although I shall certainly take the sense of the House a second time, yet would I not on any account interpose any vexatious delay between the vote and the period when it should be carried into effect. —(Cheers.)—l have spoken at greater length than I at first intended ; but I can assure the Mouse that nothing would be more satisfactory to me than to have this ques tion at length brought to a conclusion, and to know that I was never to hear thee name of East Retford again. Mr. N. CALVERT declared that he had not the honour of being acquainted with the Duke of Newcastle. He did not believe that his Grace was now the patron of East Retford, although his Ancestor had bean so in the reign of George IL, when he was Minister, and sent all the voters of that borough into place. Mr. HUSKISSON rose to explain. He had not said that flee Government were about to adopt the principles of Mr. Canning, because Sir James Scarlett had been made Attorney-General, and Mr. Abercromby Lord Chief Baron of Scotland ; hut what he had said was, that since the Ministry were adopting Whig principles, they might, perhaps, adopt this principle with respect to the transfer of the elective franchise amongst the rest. He begged of the House to recollect that a Noble Lord (the Marquis of Darlington), in declaring his intention to support this Tory Ministry, stated that he did so because they were acting upon Whig principles. Now, with respect to the list of the East India Committee, he could most safely deny the conclusions of his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Peel), as to the representation of the landed interest; for amongst the Members lie found, not simply rue, but several great landed proprietors. There was the Marquis of Chandos, Lord Milton, and the representative of the House of Cavendish, in addition to the names mentioned by his Right Hon. Friend. He contended his Right Hon. Friend was mistaken in supposing that the Hon. Member fin• Sussex (Mr. Burrell) represented the wool-growers, because he happened to •lire amongst the Southdowns. There was no reason for concluding he represented this interest more immediately than many other county Mem bers. He asked who (represented the iron interest ? It WA. true that many Members represented the counties in which iron was produced very well, but not one repre sented the iron interest. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, that as his Right Hon. Friend, in his explanation, had thought proper to amend his argument, he (Mr. Peel) felt it 'also necessary to ex plain. In the first instance his flight Hon. Friend's argu ment certainly was, that in consequence of the appoint ments already alluded to, and in consequence of the Go vernment having adopted one great principle, they ought also to adopt the other principles of Mr. Canning. Mr. HUSKISSON repeated, that, considering this Administration a Tory Government supported by Whig principles, he had contended they might have adopted this one Whig principle with the rest.--(Cheers.) Mr. C. GRANT explained--He did not mean to throw out any insinuation against the Government, or attribute motives to them which they had disclaimed. Mr. LUMLEY thought that if it were impracticable to come to a decision this Session, it would be best to let the question fall to the ground, and issue a new Writ for East Retford. The Marquis of DARLINGTON stated, that he had on all occasions voted for the motion of the Hon. Member for Hertfordshire. The House then divided on Mr. Tennyson's; Amend ment. Ayes 99 Noes 126 'Majority against the Amendment -27 On our return to the gallery, Lord HOWICK was pro ceeding to address the House. The Noble Lord expressed himself of opinion that it was extremely unfair to fasten on one single case of political delinquency like that of East Retford, while it was so notorious that the borough thus stigmatised formed only a component part of a widely prevailing system, which continued no less deserving of reprobation and reform. He would have punishment in flicted indiscriminately on all culprits of every class, high or low, wheresoever they might be found. It was an in controvertible fact, that undue influence, whether in the shape of money or otherwise, had been long exercised in every election throughout the United Kingdom. To cause this undoubted truth to be openly declared by the House of Commons was the object of his resolution. It, had been already fully admitted by a Noble Lord who filled a prominent part in the Administration several years ago (Lord Castlereagh), and the correctness of the statement was too generally established to be questioned from that day to the present. It was suggested by a night Hon. Gen tleman opposite, that he ought to be prepared to bring in a Bill for the prevention of bribery, grounded on his pro posed resolution. Now the course which he intended to adopt was this :—After the passing of the declaratory re solution, be might move for the appointment of a Com mittee, who would be empowered to draw up a scheme for Parliamentary Reform. But were he presented with the alternative of stopping short in his career, or sup porting the Hon. Meraber for Hertfordshire, lie would not hesitate a moment in his choice. It was his determina tion to oppose that Hon. Gentleman, because lie thought his Bill was an imposition on the country.—(Hear, hear.) He considered it a mere mockery to disfranchise a singly borough in the existing cif cumstaoces of the country, when no person was blind to the means by which num bers procured seats in that House. Perhaps it might be said that by opposing this Bill he was virtually eacourag ing bribery. In reply, he could en'y 'ay, that while at its full growth wall:e:I bold 1;.• thro,..fo the law!, Lo would never be brought, sigh; 61 a solitAry instatiee of corruption, to affect a horror and squeamishness which he did not feel. An lion. Mreenvie considered a ease had not been suf ficiently made out against East Retford. The House then divided, when the numbers appeared— Ayes • Noes Majority — 99 ILLUSORY APPOINTMENTS. lOn our re-admission to the gallery, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL rose to move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the law relating to illusory appointments. It would not be necessary for him to say more than a fiev words in explanation of the change which he proposed, and he anticipated that its expediency would be readily assented to by every person who heard him, as the question was not less simple than the remedy seemed obvious. The principle of English law was favourable to every latitude in the disposition of property, and to pro mote the unrestricted operation of this principle had been the object of his attention in bringing forward the mea sure in contemplation. Practice had led to the introduc tion of two powers,—one an exclusive, the other a gene ral power. In an appointment of 100,0001., 99,9991. might be given to one portion of a family whilst the re maining 11. was distributed amongst the rest, which would be quite sufficient to answer the purposes of the power in the acceptation of law. But equity steps in, and sets aside such an arrangement, as the sum is so small that it is denominated an illusory appointment, and therefore a proper case for equitable interference. The Bill that he now proposed had received, he was happy to say, the ap probation of the principal members of the pi ofession. Its object was to restore law to its original condition before the interference of equity, and to make the same rule apply. henceforward to both. It would have necessarily a most beneficial effect in extinguishing needless end vexa tious litigttion, while, on the other hand, no hardship whatever could result in any way front the change. Any person who ehuuld desire to distribute a specified sum in a particular way would require only to exprese his desire, in order to have it scrupulously enforced. ; Mr. O'CONNELL acknowledged that it would be very great presumption in so humble an individual as himself to differ on a legal subject with the Hon. and Learned Gent. In the Bill alluded to, however, he conceived that a slight mistake had been made which would require amendment, notwithstanding the general propriety of the measure, which he was quite ready to ad m it. The ex isting system was indeed one which much needed refor mation, and he would be the last to oppose the progress of what must prove in the main an improvement. He had conversed with sensible, well-informed, and intelligent men, and found that not one of them could understand what was meant by the term, " illusory appointment," the knowledge of which was exclusively confined to the techni cal lawyer. They were as ignorant of the expression, as if it had been Arabic, or rather the language of Otaheite, for many gentlemen understood Arabic. He did not, ne vertheless, wholy approve of making fathers so absolute as the Learned Gent. seemed to intend. Parents had been known to offer proposals to their children, when appor tioning a distribution, and give to each according to the bargain which he might be willing to accept. This mis chief would still remain, notwithstanding the proposed Bill. In his opinion it would be. much better to take away from the father the power of unequal apportionment. He would adhere to the principle of the French law,which prevented undue competition, and gave all the children an equal share in the distribution. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in explanation, could not accede to the suggestio❑ of the Hon. Member for Clare. He coubJ not consent to take away from the father his legitimate and reasonable power of apportioning to his children as lie might think proper, acting on the impulse of his affection and the dictates of his judgment. It was for this very reason that he admired the excellence of the English law, although the Hon. and Learned Geatlensan would hive him depart front it to follow the questionable example of France.—(Hear, hear. )—His Bill would trench neither on the rights of parents nor children. A few words would suffice to explain the object of the Bill which he proposed to submit to the House for facilitating the payment of debts out of real estate. By the Statute of William, the bond debts of an estate, even in the case of the heir's being an infant, were recoverable in equity, but not covenants, which were held liable in common law. He proposed to extend the powers of the Courts of Equity to covenants, and to enable them to give a title of the estates of the infant sold under their jurisdiction. At present, by a strange anomaly, the Court of Chancery possessed and exercised the power of selling the infant's estate, but could not give a title. He proposed to remedy that defect, and also grant the Court of Chancery the power of giving a title in the case of devised property. Leave was civil to introduce the Bill. The next Bill he should have to propose had for object to extend to Covenants of the Act of William and Mary, that at present only related to Bonds. A further provision in this measure would be to render it impossible for infants to demur to the payment of bond debts until they should attain the age of twenty. one. As the law now stood, a Court of Equity might order the sale of an estate belong ing to an infant for the benefit of creditors, but it could give no title, so that the purchaser was obliged to wait for his title until the infant came of age. His third Bill was designed as an amendment of the 6th Geo. IV., which of itself was an amendment of a Statute passed in the reign of Queen Anne. At present the state of the law presented this anomaly : if a man sold his estate, received the gooney for it, and died, leaving an infant heir, the purchaser could not obtain a conveyance of the property until the infant came of ago. He had also introduced a provision relative to the estates of married women, infants, luna tics, tic., in order to remove obstructions to the improvement of those estates. His fourth Bill was intimately connected with the Court of Chancery and its proceedings. Courts of Equity acted nd perso nas, and not ad rem, and in all cases an appearance was necessary : in no case but one, provided by a spe vial Act of Parliament, when the party must be brought to the Bar, could that appearance be entered without the consent of the defendant. Much had been said of the conduct of Lord Eldon upon this subject; but he (the Solicitor-General) could assert that no man could be inure tender of the personal liberty of the subject, and he ❑ever committed an individual for contempt without the most anxious and earnest desire to avoid that painful extremity. In consequence of steps taken by that N o bl e Lord, persons confined merely for non-payment of a sum of money, as for costs of suit, could he discharged under the Insolvent Act; but he (the Solicitor-General) w as convinced that the time had arrived in which relief should be carried much farther, and he thought he could esta blish, without difficulty, the justice and expediency of altering the existing law. The Commissioners upon the Court of Chancery had suggested the fitness of shorteninb the process, and he proposed to render it much shorter than they had considered necessary. In the Bill he had framed, he had made use of some portions of the measure which had been founded upon the Report of the Com missioner., and which hail been brought in by the present occupant of the Woolsack, when Master of the Roll.. He could not think, and never hail thought it sight, that men should be confined, perhaps for life, with in the walls of a prison, because they had slot the means, even if they had the inclination, to put in answers to bills filed against them ; he, therefore, proposed to relax the system, and to afford a remedy, to which, he believed, no objection could be raised. As it stood, the law was not to be endured; and against poor men, in a few rare cases, it operated with unmixed bitter ness ; let the cases be ever so rare, if they could exist, it was highly proper that the evil should be met and redressed. When once a man was lodged in a county gaol for con tempt, there was no obligation upon the party lodging him there to take the slightest notice of the prisoner fur the rest of his life. He behoved that there wits but one existing instance of the kind, and there the man merited what he suffered, for he remained in the county gaol for the purpose of evading an act, which he ought, in justice, to perform. A poor man, a tailor, in Coventry gaol, after he had been there for seven years, had written to him (the Solicitor- General). With a very few exceptions, he found the parties, who occasioned the imprisonment, disposed to aid hint in the task of setting free those who were confined ; and the poor tailor, having been released from prison, had been put in possession of his estate, which had been mortgaged, and had since written a grateful letter, in whicb, he stated that he had never known a state of such comparative affluence and happiness. The evil arising out of the non-entry of appearances was capable of an easy and an immediate remedy, and it was this :—to enable a party to enter an appearance for a person who would not enter it for him self; if it were not done within a seasonable time by the defendant himself, it should be done for him, and the gaoler authorised to release the individual in con tempt. The object of imprisonment was to -get a cer tain act performed, and as soon as it was performed, either by the defendant or by others, the object was an swered. At the same time lie wished the change to be accompanied by this provision :—that where justice could net be done sinless the defendant himself put in the an swer, the Court should have the power, upon application, to prolong the confinement. He begged Hon. Members to observe that there was a great difference between this aniewirnent and the present state of the . law. Now a nian might he left in gaol year after year to the end of his life without the slightest notice of his being still in ex istence; by the change he proposed, the imprisonment of no man could b prolonged without special application ti the Court,' and that with dire notice to the party. When he came to investigate the state of the Fleet Prison, he saw clearly that some alteration was necessary ; but it was a mistake to assert that the parties there confined for con tempt were victims of the Court of Chancery—they were victims of the law, which Inv it was expedient to amend. The present times, and the present state of inen's minds, were favourable to that alteration; and without assuming the slightest credit to himself for taking advantage of this disposition which slid not before exist, at least to the same extent, and anxious to shun all compatison in every other respect with his ab!e predecessors in office, he had undertaken to draw the attention of the Legislature to the subject. When he first visited the Fleet, he found, he believed, thirty-seven prisoners there for contempt of the Court of Chancery .one had been there for nineteen years, another for sixteen, a third for twelve, a fourth fir ten years, and so on with others for shorter periods. He found also, to his great astonishment, that the persons sent there by, and thus considered victims of the Court of Chancery, held all the must lucrative situations in the pri son. The cook had been confined in contempt for six years, although lie need not have remained there for six days, hail he chosen to give up his iloutishing office. The hotel-keeper had been tea years in prison, without the slightest necessity for stopping there ; and his place, he was informed, was worth from 2001. to 3001. a year. The individual who occupied the tap—a situ a tion pro ducing from 1501. to 2001. a year—had been committed for contempt, and had already remained there for six years. Another person was a solicitor : he had been in the Fleet three years; and need not have been there as many days; hut he was now domiciled, and practised his profession with much success. lie had, however, found in similar confinement one gentleman, who bad for 13 years been in a state of imbecility, and who was therefore utterly incapable of putting in any answer to a bill in Chancery. Had he died, he' would indeed have been lamented over as one of the victims of the Court ; but what was the fact? He had been kept in pri son for the convenience of others; and he had made no hesitation in telling those others, that if they did riot set hint at liberty, lie would issue a Commission of Lunacy against the imbecile gentleman, sad have a guar dian appointed. What was the result ? In December, 1829, an order for his discharge was produced by his friends, dated in August, 1827, which for their own pur poses they had till then kept in their pockets, and would have allowed him to die a victim to the Court of Chan cery. Besides this gentleman, there were two wretched individuals, both out of their minds : although one was sane enough to do wrong, though he would not do right; the other was merely a silly idiot, who del not know right from wrong. For the cases of such persona it was obvious that a provision should be made; and he proposed that the Court should he empowered to assign to them Coun sel and Solicitors, even though no commission of lunacy had been issued against them. (At this moment the noise in the House, which had prevailed to a considerable extent during the whole of the lion. and Learned Gent.'s speech, increased beyond what it had previously done.) — Before the interruption he was about to state, that one of the objects of his measure would be to give relief at once to any man who made out a case of poverty. For this purpose lie should propose that four times in the year a King's Counsel and a Master in Chancery be appointed to e;sit the prison, to report upon its state, and make a repre sentation of the persons whose cases required relief, upon which a solicitor and counsel should be assigned to them, and the questions on which they were at issue with other parties, brought to as speedy a decision as possible. There was another reform he meant to introduce, which was this, that whenever any roan was ordered to execute a deed, and that he slid not immediately comply, the Court, instead of imprisoning him, should execute the deed for him, and whenever it was proper for any man to do any act, should not confine him for the remainder of his life, but should proceed at once as if the thing were done. He would even carry that principle further—he would apply it to the case of fines and recoveries. Whatever was the na ture of the act to be done, whenever it was derided that it should be done, then let it be the business of the Court to see its own commands carried into effect. By the re turns made in 1821, out of 31 persons then in custody, there was one who had been confined for a period of 19 years, and he declined to accept his liberty on the pro posed terms. There was another who had been confined fur 15 years, and who was at that time in a state of im becility. The Return of 1827 gave the name of one man who had been confined fur 25 years ; but he, so far from wishing to be liberated, procured an affidavit of debt to he made against him, for tile purpose of his further detention, in order that be might preserve to himself the enjoyment of confinement, in despite of the Court by which he was originally committed—so remaining voluntarily in prison. Of the number in prison in 1827, he had now the satis faction of stating, that the cases of the greater part were in a fair traits of being satisfactorily disposed of. He then concluded, by moving " for leave to bring in a Bill to facilitate the 'Payment of Debts out of Real Estate." The question having been put, Mr. HUME was far from undervaluing the labours of the lion. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down ; on the contrary, he appreciated them highly ; but he must be allowed to say that many of the returns upon which the last Speaker had founded his observations were laid upon the table of that House at his (Mr. H.) instance. Neither could he concur with that Hon. and Learned Gen tleman in the eulogium he had pronounced upon the late Lord Chancellor. The improvements in the law before the House would do the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, by whom they had been proposed infinite honour, and could not but prove to him a source of satisfaction and honest pride the longest day he bad to live—yet other Attorneys and Solicitors General had enjoyed their large income, and all the rank and patronage and advantages of other offices, without ever bestowing a thought upon the thou sands whom a single act of theirs might set at liberty. But nothing could be further from the thoughts of these great officers than discharging that solemn and important duty. They, so far as he could perceive, neglected every thing but their own private interests, leaving thousands and tens of thousands to pine in prison and in suffering. The censure upon those functionaries was the higthest praise of the Hon. and Learned Gent, opposite, as were his praises their condemnation, for the ahanteful neglect of duty of which they had been guilty. It was with the utmost difficulty he could imagine how the late Lord Chancellor could have reconciled it to his conscience, of which he so often spoke, to remain five and twenty years in office without once making a proposition for the amelioration of that Court over which he presided. There was one case in the year 1821 which in an especial degree attracted his notice ; it was that of an old woman who had been one and twenty years in prison, and who was allowed to re main there up to the time of ker death. The people of England had claims for Vie remedy of those abuses of which they were not aware, and yet they went on from day to day sanctioning abuses for which the Law Officers ought to be held responsible, but which up to the present moment they had never held out their hands to correct. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL could not but feel the prsises of the Hon. Member for Montrose as most painful, seeing that they were only given to him in the form of censures pronounced upon the conduct of his predecessors. It was by no means correct to argue that they had done wrung in not anticipating his measures: he stood in a different situation from what they did, especially as re spected time. What might have been extremely proper for him to propose to Parliament, various causes might have prevented them from bringing forward ; but this, he submitted, formed no ground of censure against them. Lord ALTHORP said, that it was perfectly natural and just that the Hon. Member for Montrose should con trast the conduct of the present Law Officers of the Crown with that of their predecessors. Sir C. WETHERELL complained of the sweeping anathema which the Member for Montrose had pronounced against all who had filled legal offices under the Crown. Ile had taken them severely to task, and he (Sir Chas. Wetherell) would take him to task. He would ark that lion. Member where he was all the time the Chancery Commission was sitting ? It was well known to all who sat upon that Commission that the Noble Lord (Eldon) whole conduct had been so severely censured uniformly attended that Commission ; and though a lawyer of the highest eminence, and a Magistrate of the highest order, yet he attended that Commission, and communicated with the youngest tyro of the law amongst its Members upon the most perfect t erms o f equa lity. H e came to t h at Commission, and he said that whenever his presence could aid their deliberations, or afford the smallest light or as sistance, then would he be present ; and that whenever his absence would conduce to the objects for which they had been formed, then would he be absent. Now, he would once again beg leave to break a lance with the lion. Member for Montrose why did he not come down to the Chancery Commission ?.—(Hear, hear.)—Why did he not come down to that Commission with his information in his pocket, and enlighten them all ? He was a legal Re former and an Ecclesiastical Reformer—a Reformer of the Church and of the Finances--an otunigenous Refoi mer— an encyclopedical Reformer—(A laugh,)—why did he not then come down and lay before them the stores of his learning in matters regarding the Court of Chancery But no ; the Hon. Member for Moßtroie did not think proper to 4ome forward upon that occasion ; he kept his complaints in pelto till the Noble Lord went out of office, and than be stood forward to pronounce against him a sweeping anathema, all the while taking especial care not to mention any one of the services which that Noble Lord did to the substantial improvement of the administration of just ice.— H e slid nothng of the eapenees i❑ tines and reco veries which tits Noble Lord almished. Again, they heard nothing from the lion. Member for Montrose re specting the improvements which Lord Eldon effected in the state of the law relating to executors. But it would he in vain that he should attempt to do justice to the public services of that Noble and Learned Person. He was not prepared at a short notice to give so good a syllabus of hie merits as the Hon. Member for Montrose had given of his demerits; lie would not do injustice to those merits by the❑ entering into them at length, unfitted for the task as he was by no trifling degree of indisposition. Those two orders of Lord Eldon's which he had already adverted to were of the highest importance to every professional man, as well knew, and as many men of property could not bet occasionally feel ; to these he might add many more, did time allow ; but he must say, that when that Noble Lord had now retired from the vortex of public life—from that political collision i❑ which he had been engaged for so many years, it was rather hard to deal out to him such a measure of injustice.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He would say egregious injustice, to endeavour to lay upon his back such stripes and lashes as those which the Mon. Member for Montrose sought to inflict. Lord Edon, one of the most amiable and excellent of men, was at the same time one of the greatest and most learned of lawyers. As he was on his legs, he would advert briefly to the charges of the lion. Member against the various individuals who had filled the offices of Attorney and Solicitor-General. Many of them hail come from the Hon. Member's own side of the House—the late Sir Samuel Romilly for example; he of course meant to include that learned and eminent person in the sweeping condemnation which he had pronounced upon the class of official delinquents whose conduct failed to meet with his approbation. To his mind nothing could appear more ungracious than for the Hon. Member fur Montrose to enlarge with such extraordinary severity upon the conduct of legal functionaries, when his own side of the House te.'as at all times ready to furnish the State wi:h a quiver of Law Officers. It should be remembered that the present Attorney-General came fame that side of the House, and lead not, up to the present moment, proposed any legal reforms ; but it was hardly fair to say any thing of him ; he was too fresh and green in his office to be made the subject of much animadversion. As to the general principles of the Bill, he entirely approved of them, as he should think that any gentleman at the Bar mast do. Mr. O'CONNELL-LThe Bills which the Solicitor- General proposed to introduce gave every promise of being highly useful, and as such they claimed his support. It seemed to him that hia Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) had not been quite fairly dealt with. He had been attacked he cause he had not joined in the complaints preferred against Lord Ellon ; hut, after all, on the showing of his own eulogists, what had that Learned Lord done for his coun try? He had received mure than half a million of its money, and in return introduced two measures into Par liament. Leave was then given to the Solicitor-General to bring in a Bill to facilitate the Payment of Debts out of Real Estate ; a Bill for Amending the Law relating to the Pro perty of Infants, Femznes Covertes, and Lunatic. ; a Bill for Amending the Law relating to Lunatic and Infant Trustees, and Mortgagees ; and a Bill for Amending the Law relating to Process of Contempt, and Commitments for Contempt by Courts of Equity. CURRENCY. Mr. ATTWOOD—It frequently happened that Mi nisters, in the course of their observations to Parliament, alluded to and quoted from documents which were not before the public, front which circumstance a considerable degree of embarrassment took place. It was a practice, therefore, which it was extremely desirous to have obvi ated; and to him the best way of obviating it appeared to be to have all such documents previously laid before the Houses of Parliament. A remarkable instance of this kind had occurred the other night in the other House, when the Duke of Wellington had had occasion to address their Lordships on the currency, in the comic of which he made various statements, none of which had bee❑ regularly placed before Parliament. It, however, ap peared to him that most of the Noble Duke's statements were consecutive on the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in 1828—their respective amounts agreeing exactly, with the exception of a difference of six million. between the country bank notes and the sovereigns. This was not a queation to which he should so seriously call the attention of the House, were it not, in his opinion, the one which, of all others, was the most important and inte resting to the whole country at the present crisis. —(Hear, hear. ) He well remembered the speech of the Right Hon. Gent. (Mr. Peel) on this subject some few years ago, when he had assured the House that they were then within the reach of the goal, and had only to exercise a little firmness to arrive at it. But how did the matter present itself now ? Was the goal arrived at ? No; and yet the Minister still exclaimed, " Oh, trust to us; we shall do everything that is right, and therefore you must not expect any inquiry."—(Hear, hear.) — The Government was committing the most fatal and most disastrous of errors, and he besought it to take warning while it was not yet too late, before they entailed upon it a responsibility greater than it could bear. According to the Duke of Wellington's statement, there was now a cir culation of 65 millions in the country; from which the Premier argued that they were wrong who complained of there being any want of money i• the country. What was the meaning of that statement? That money was universal. But was it so ?—(Hear, hear. )—He would ask the landlord—did he obtain the same rent as hereto fore? He would ask the merchant—did he obtain the same profits as heretofore ? He would ask the manufac turer—did he employ the same number of hands as here tofore?—(Hear, hear.)—He would not ask those o❑ the Treasury Benches whether the same money was received there as heretofore, because Le did not intend to deny it ; but he would ask them—did they not find that with the same money they had much greater power. —(Hear, hear.)—lt was very evident to him that the whole of the tables upon which the Duke of Wel lington had gone was founded in error. The Exchequer was receiving twenty millions less than during the war— the landeai interest twenty millions less, and the labouring classes not half so much as at that former period ; in fact, these latter, instead of money, were obliged to be content to receive butter, hats, clothes, and such like commodities, in exchange for their services ; and one instance that he had heard of carried this so far that a labourer, having re ceived a leg of mutton for his labour, and having a child to be baptised, he took his joint to the parson, and begged him to cut off as many slices as were equivalent to the baptismal fee.—(A laugh, and hear, hear.) If there was really sufficient money in the country, or if Ministers really believed that there was, why did they not propose the appointment of a Finance Committee, who might in quire where it lay concealed, and devise the proper means for putting it into circulation? But the real fact was, that the statements of the present gold currency, as made by the Duke of Wellington, were entirely in error. In his (the Duke's) estimate of the amount, he took it for granted that every sovereign that had been coined since 1824 was still afloat in the country ; in no way did he make any allowance for the prodigious quantity that must have found their way out of the country as exports, with the exception of one batch of six millions, in the course of a certain period of eighteen months, and of which the Bank was cognizant ; but how many were there not ex ported of which the Bank knew nothing, and could know nothing ? Every now and then it was the interest of the merchant to export according to the ♦ibrations that took place, and the only way in which those small vessels which imported cheese, butter, eggs, &c. were paid, was by sovereigns.—(Hear, hear.)—Let the House also con sider, that the number of absentees were now reckoned at 100,000 ; and did not these gentlemen take any of the currency away with them ?—(Hear, hear.)—To these re ductions of the actual currency was also to be added that most important one, caused by the melting of sovereigns. Formerly the Birmingham and other manufacturers em ployed a broker, in London, to purchase gold for theta ; but now they found the easiest way to be to melt down sovereigns as they wanted them. ♦ll these, then, were ways in which the gold currency must have rapidly dimi nished, and for which no allowance had been made in the Duke of Wellington's statements. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by moving for a " Return of the issue of Sove reigns and Half Sovereigns, from the Ist of January, 1826, to 31st of December, 1829, both inclusive; dig tinguishing the amount paid, the amount received, and the balances." The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the foundation of the principal argument of the lion. Mem bel. rested upon the view which he took of certain state ments made by the Noble Duke at the head of his Ma jesty's Government in another House, and by hi m (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) in the House of Commons, for the purpose of drawing comparisons between the cir culation of the country at one p er i o d an d anot h er, and fromthese comparisons, endeavouring to arrive at some c onclusion on the question, o f w h et h er or not the d i stress was produced by the state o f t h at c i rcu l at i on. Now, these comparisons were for me d on data of prec i sely the same character--the calculations were made on foundations pre oisely similar; and if mottos*, at the Hess. thilibitti &II seemed to suppose, at one time, they were equally erre rp.!ous at another, and therefore the errors, as far es the mere question of comparison went, were calculated to pm o duee very little effect. All that the Noble Duke contended for, and all that he himself desired to be drawn from them, seas to find come corresponding data, approximating in period and circumstance' to each ether, through which they could form a comparison as aecurate as the subject would admit. To begin with tits first of the Hon. Mem 'Tr's assertions :—lle says that the gold in circulation can not be so much as 21i millions, besanse there is no allow once made for the amount withdrawn from circula tion fur exportation or other purposes. Now the fact is, that the whole amount of gold coined at the Mint has been 44,100,000!., and it is in that surplus of 16,100,000 that the Noble Duke found the means of ac counting for the quantity removed from the circulation, and ovhich the Hon. Member erroneously supposes was not taken into the estimate.—(Hear, hear.)--But ha would tell the lion. Member why it was that the Noble Duke assumed 28,000,000 to be the amount of gold in circulation, lie thought the Hon. Member would admit that so long as the foreign exchanges were in favour of this country there could be no danger of the gold in circu lation going abroad as an article of commerce. He was confident, although it would not be unlike some of the assertions of the Hon, Member, if he maintained the re verse, that while the exchanges were in oar favour, no great quantity of gold would be sent abroad by the mer chants; and, although some few gentlemen might take a salon quantity with them for the ordinary demand of travel, as long as the exchanges were favourable, even that small quantity would ultimately find its way batik again ; for the advantages obtained by it were too obvious to ba passed over. As to those who required their rents to b remitted to the Continent, he need not surely say that no gentlemen under such circumstances would ever require those remittances to be made in English sovereigns. Bit then a period might come when the exchanges would ba unfavourable to this country. It was impossible, he believe 1, to say to what extent the gold of the ssountry found its waf abroad at ouch a time, but the calealatioas by which thee endeavoured to make an approximation to the truth we .e founded on this opinion—that for every sorcrign se it abroad there was a demand made for one to replace it oa the gold in the hands of the Bank of England. Now the calculation he really did not think an unfair one, for as tie gold, under such circumstance*, was collected from every part of the country to be expended, so in proportion to the vacuum thus created was the dersionst on the Bank to fill it up with a fresh supply. But eeen supposing that the draM created in such cases was greater than this sa cu'a tion would account for, still he thought that the diff-rence might he naturally accounted for in another way. For as in the event of the exchanges being in favour of th's country, the estimate was wholly formed on the anteem of gold which passed through the hands of the Bonk of Eng land, without any reference to the importations of lot n by individuals, so, at other times, supposing the. , some which remained in the hands of individuals was exporte in addition to that demanded from the Bank ; Ii appre hended they would, by taking these. two additional circumstances into consideration, arrive at a conchs sion not very foreign to the truth. At all events, he had stated the amount vested and withdrawn from the circulation in this manner to be calculated at 16,500,0001. and he thought that was a sum suGciently large to justify and bear oat the assertion, that the pre sent circulating medium amounted to twenty-eight mil lions of gold. The lion. Member had found by sour s calculations of his own, that at the ronelnaien of the war there Were 10 millions of guineas in the casuistry. Now. it should be recollected, that for a considerable portion of that war, the guinea was selling abroad at the pri,e of twenty-seven shillings, and that the temptation of this price canoed every exertion to be sled through the coil' try for the purpose of collecting them, although the expo; ta tion of bullion or guineas was declared contrary to law. Now the fact was, although the Mon. Gent. supposes the amount to have been 10 millions, the whole quality called in, when the sovereigns were issued, was only four millions. He mentioned this merely because the Hem. Gent. seemed to suppose there had been an exportation of guineas after the coinage. Passing now to the objection of the lion. Member, with reference to the statements on the circulation of Bank paper, he thought it would be in the recollection of the House, that at the time he introduced this measure with respect to the withdrawal of the or.e pound notes front circulation, he took that circulation to amount to the sum of two millions aid a half. One calculation produced 2,100,000/, ; another, 2,400,0001. ; and there fore lie thought the fair average would be 1,500,000/. But the Honourable Gentleman contends that the calcu lations and statements of the Noble Duke, authorise:l and supported by his, would make the amount six millions. Now, here again he mist say that the Ho nourable Member completely misapprehended the nature of the Noble Duke's statements, and did not make sufficient allowance for the large number of notes, which, previous to the termination of the system, were either destroyed or withdrawn from circulation. At the time of the passing of the law for the abolition of tile power to issue small notes, be (the Chancellor of the Ex chequer) had expressed an opinion that the place of the small notes would be supplied in the circulation by others of a higher denomination. Of the truth of that assertion the Hon. Member had intimated some doubt, and he should, therefore, take leave to read a short account of the amount of stamps issued for 5/. notes and upwards fur the smallquarter w notes ot i werech succeeded t obe t u h e e d t wi it b announcement erem t e l b t e g r o ed m th or a e t the time to which the circulation of small notes was limited was the sth of April, 1829. Now it appeared the amount of stamps issued for notes of V. and upwards, was, on the sth of April, 1827 £282,000 .sth of July, 10th of Oct. sth of Jan., 1828 ... 317,000 sth of April, sth of July, 10th of Oct. And now, approaching the period when the circulation of the small notes was to terminate, he found the number of Stamps issued on the -sth of Jan., 1829, to be £876,000 sth of April, Showing, on a comparison with the two corresponding quarters of 1825, au increase of sixteen hundred and thirteen thousand, as compared with six hundred and thirty-five thousand. lie thought it right to trouble the House with this detail of figures, because the Honourable Member had expressed considerable doubts of the accuracy of the statements ; and because it might lead to erroneous ideas of the amount of paper withdrawn from circulation. There was one other subject to which he wished to advert in a very few words. The Hon. Member had alluded to the amount of gold which passed through the hands of the Bank of England ; bat did the Hon. Member recol lect that individuals, by the new regalation■ at the Mint, had the facility of taking bullion to be coined, and that the amount so coined on private account was above one million five hundred thoasand pounds in a year and a half Having said thus much, he sheald not trespass further on the attention of the House, bat 'exclude by observing, that he could have wished the discussion en these subjects had been postponed until the Hon. Member was in pos session of all the information he desired, as he would then ha►e an opportunity of meeting him when he was armed with all that knowledge which he seemed to think was withheld. He would do the Hon. Gentleman the justice to say, however, that though he could not help feeling that he had been guilty of misrepresentations, he believed them to be more the effect of want of informa tion, than of any intention to mislead. Mr. A. BARING confessed that although these &emis sions did not produce mach at present, they tended, in his opinion, to elicit information, and to make the Howie bet ter acquainted with a very complicated subject, He thought, too, that the statements pat forth by the Noble Duke in another place were made mash too positively and confidently, when the nature of the question was fairly con sidered; for although the grounds of the calculations were very clearly] explained by the Right Hon. Gentleman, yet he conceived it to be quite impossible from those calcula tions, or from, indeed, any other, to come to an accurate conclusion with respect to the real amoral of gold remain ing in the country, After observing on the statements of the Right Hon. Gentleman, with respect to the small notee and the stamps issued for those of he pounds, as a thing depending on accidental cirsurmstauces, the Hon. Member proceeded to contend, that a great quantity of he d wt ig t;l:l a u e r i sdnks:nol darker ts w e a c r d o e ; cl i o g o af um n yr i p n ma r to o h t a l o a r t dn ht in he t e oh u a fa l s cl t t ro c uy ios c ps oi up bf ede l perceiveer fo rmerly,Eh t u va ehtearTtuyeari:tt until bl g w . e : ck a l w :s au h t b :o o e f i l tawalt eksilver, adopted, it was for years a kind of trade is Paris and Bir mingham to melt clown the English sovereigns for the sake of the very small quantity of silver which they mita tied. While on that subject, he would say that it was well worth the while of the Government of this country to look a little at the expense of the Mint. In France the Mint pail itself from the profits obtained by the blaster; but in this country the Master and his assistants cost from one to one hundred and fifty thousand pounds, without taking into consideration the very line gain derived by the Master from the coinage of silver. That coinage had been nearly nine millions, and the profits on it. which were very con siderable, had gone without any inteiry into the pocket of 3 rn- was the the Ittr the % of , he said the .a t ire xnt end the port nal"