The Sun. — London, England, 1830-02-09 00:00:00

VI declaration of such an inten4d amicable interference, in which special grounds were pointed out. In a note of Mr. Clay, the Minister of the United State•, dated Dec., 18?5, that Government, then having recognised the inde pendence of Mexico and the other Republics, he declared its intention to preserve a strict neutrality in the case of a war betwixt them and her former colonies. The tonne of that declaration were, however, that if Spain should persist in carrying on war without the prospect of success, the Republics of Colombia and Mexico would probably retaliate, by making an attack upon Cuba, that being the point d'appui from which Spain could carry on her ope rations ; and that if a war carried into that island by the Republics, should prove to be one of a desolating na ture, such as the putting of arms into the hands of one class of the inhabitants against another class, then it would be necessary for America to interfere and to prevent such a war of extermination from proceeding. This was the geo'and which America had taken. What she said was, that she would not interfere so long as the war was carried on on both sides according to the laws of civilized nations ; but she would not see such a course taken as must lead to the depopulation of the island of Cubs, and leave it to be transferred to the possession of some European Power. If Mr. Canning ever made any similar declaration, lie was satisfied it must have been oats of this nature. With re gard to the recent expedition sent out by Spain against Mexico, it was, he believed, almost entirely sent from the Havannah. Almost the only person in it who proceeded from the Mother Country, hs believed, was the Corn mender of the troops ; and he could assure the Hon. Gentleman, whatever he might think, that it would have been extremely difficult for England to have prevented the sailing of that expedition by remonstrance alone. So much for what had been done ; and now for the intentions of the Government as to the future. They felt a deep interest in the welfare and the prosperity of these infant States. They had recognised their independence, and were anxious to see that independence consolidated by their tranquillity, and by their security from foreign at tack, so long as they gave no just cause of interference to other Powers. He did hope that they would now turn to their own resources, and subduing their own party di visions--establish an internal union and peace, which, after all, would probably be their greatest safeguard against foreign aggression. The Government of this country had hoped that Spain, if she could not be persuaded to nego eiste with her lost colonies, would hare seen the policy of abstaining from actual hentilitics against them. If there should hereafter appear to he any chance of a revival of actual hostilities, the policy of England would be to use her best efforts for their prevention ; but if that interces sion failed, and Spain was determined to proceed with hostile measures, then lie had no difficulty in making on the part of the British Government this public declara tion—that so far as the lawful operations of ever were concerned on either side, this country would act upon prin ciples of strict impartiality.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. G. LAMB rose briefly to state his reasons for vot ing for the amendment to the Address on the first night of the Session. If he bad any confidence in the Ministers-- end he begged to say that he bad none—he should still have found himself bound to vote for the amendment. The lion. Gentleman then went over several of the topics which were discussed on Thursday and Friday nights. lie observed, that in the course of the debate, on a former evening, allusions bad been made to the state of the cur rency, and several Hon. Members on both sides of the House had suggested the propriety of an immediate altera tion of the law which required an adherence to a metallic currency. On his part he confessed he was not prepared to rescind the determination which they had come to on that subject, although lie would not deny the inquiry into its propriety which was so earnestly solicited. On these grounds he had tupported the amendment rather than the original Address, with respect to that part which related to the internal affairs of the empire. If, however, the Ministers were accused of recklessness and carelessness of every thing connected with domestic policy, what was to be sahl with reference to their conduct upon every thing rehoing to foreign affairs? If Ministers were charged with too great a resemblance of Whigs in their manage ment of domestic affairs, on the Continent they were con sidered the most tremendous Tories that ever appertained to any party in this country.—(Hear, hear.)—And he really felt there was but too much justice in the ob servations of the Noble Lord, the Member for the University of Cambridge (Lord Palmerston), when lie declared, on Friday evening, that the character of Eng land was disgraced and detested on every part of the Continent. He confessed it was with the greatest pain and regret that he heard the Right Hon. Gent., the Secretary for the Home Department, hold so low a tone on the sub ject of the position of this country, with reference to the Continent, and admit that the fear of war was the sole cause of that temporising system of policy which was so loudly complained of. That tone was indeed so low as to form a remarkable contrast with the language used scarcely two years ago by the Minister who then directed the coun-. oils of this country. The nation reposed confidence in Mr. Canning, because he had raised its name to that great and exalted station which it ought to occupy among the States of the Continent; and when he unhappily sunk he bequeathed to his country as a legacy an example of the consequences of a liberal but straight-forward and deter mined course of policy, which it was fondly hoped would be followed by his successors. 'The confidence, therefore, which the nation felt in Mr. Canning had been continued to his successors, and what had been the result ? Why, that they had obtained the reputation of being considered the foes of every liberal institution, and of having leagued them selves in strict alliance with feeble Sovereigns and bigntted Ministers. The whole mind of the people of these countries whose good opinion, he contended, it was the true policy of England to maintain, had been alienated by this course, and, instead of being considered the friend, England was held to be the enemy of all liberal institutions. He was told, however, by the Right Hon. Gent., that war must be avoided, and that this was the cause of their adopting the policy of non-interference ; but he trusted that there would now be an end of the confidence which the country had reposed in them who maintained such a doctrine. For be could tell them that by their abstaining from all that was liberal and just, through the apprehensions of war, the time might come when the question would be, not whe ther they were to abstain front a particular act because it might lead to war, but whether they would not have war forced on them, and forced on them, too, when they had deprived themselves of the assistance and the good wishes •,t all the friends of freedom, who formed, he was per suaded, the great majolity of the population,--(1-tear.) The Hon. Member then referred to that part of the Speech in which Portugal was mentioned, and observed, that as they were told all hope of a reconciliation be tween the two branches of the House of Braganza WWI at an end, they must now be prepared, be supposed, for the disgrace of the formal recognition of Don Miguel. How, he would ask, was this recognition to be effected ? By what artifice was it to be managed ? or after what form and in what language was the Sovereign of England to enter into terms of amity and friendship with an usurper, who was acknowledged to have even broken the sacred word of royalty ? Of the doctrine of non-inter ference which the Right Hon. Gent. bad contended for, he should say no more than that it always appeared to him to labour under two objections—one was, that it was utterly impossible to persevere in it as a system; and the other was, that no nation in Europe would give this country credit for sincerity if it attempted it.—(Hear.) —The Right Hon. Gent. had quoted the opinions of a great number of eminent Statesmen in favour of the po sition that it was important to preserve the integrity of the Turkish Empire. But it was most unfortunate for the Right Hon. Gent. and his argument that, at the very moment when this country for a long series of years had acknowledged Turkey as an ally, that very moment Tur key found her ancient eneary before the very gates of her capital. Now, whatever might he the well-merited diffi dence with which the people of this country regarded the wisdom and experience of the present Ministers, with regard to our domestic and commercial policy, they were surely fully justified in placing the utmost reliance in their military knowledge, when they saw how many dis tinguished military men held situations in the present Administration—when they saw a Field Marshal Premier, and recollected the high rank and experience of his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of the Colonies (Sir G. Murray), and of his other Right Hon. Friend, who held a distinguished place in the Orduance (Sir H. Hardinge)— they could not but feel surprise at the confidence which seemed to have been entertained with respect to the im pregnability of the passes of the Balkan, after they saw they were travelled over by the enemy with as much ease as if it had been the turnpike road to Weimer Castle.— (Hear.)—H e had declared he felt no confidence in the present Ministry ; and if an individual so little distinguished as he was should be considered worthy cf any reply, he trusted he should not be met with the hacknied language of who is held fit to take their places ? he hOped be never should be told that the House of Commons did net sup ply a number of men well qualified to guide the Councils of the country, and worthy of the confidence of the Sove reign. It had been the hellion of late to fil} the posts of the Administration by recruiting among - the ranks of their enemies. In one cue they sought, an Attorney-General from among the Whigs. In anothenthey sought for a Muter of the Mint in •itt Hon. Member , who had been amongst their greatesteaPpOnents; and unless they ended by selecting a !taint, he did net know in what party they Lad not sought for support...-(Hearty and a laugh.)-.He looked on this, not as an attempt to increase the strength of the Ministry, but as a means adopted to soften hostility; and he objected to it as calculated to destroy the indepen dence of the House of Commons by endeavouring to put an end to the existence of parties, and rendering every man in it an official expectant.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Secretary PEEL knew he was much cut of order in rising again ; but he trusted the House would indulge Him for a very few moments, while he endeavoured to explain one or two points of hie former observations, which had been very much misconstrued by the lion. Member far Pungarvan (Mr. Lamb). That Hon. Mem ber had assumed that he (Mr. Peel) argued for the neces sity and propriety of non-interference, on the ground that they could not depart from that course, through the fear of being called on to engage in war. Now so cautious had he been of allowing any misconstructions to be placed on his language with regard to war, that throughout the ob servations he addressed to the House, on the subject of the Foreign Policy of the country, he most studiously avoided the mention of the word peace, without at the same time declaring that peace was not worth having, unless it could be preserved in a manner consistent with the honour of the country and the integrity of its power ; and he re peated, that he did so expressly for the purpose of avoid ir•.g that very misrepresentation—a misconstruction into which the Honourable Member for Durgarvan, he had no doubt, quite undesignedly fell on this oe casion. England might well afford to avow her love of peace ; because she was strong enough and powerful enough to feel no fear of the consequences of war : and let me tell those who ascribe such motives to this country, that those who have from principle, from huma nity, arid from a sense of its good policy, laboured to maintain a just peace among nations, will always be found , the most able to sustain the consequences of a just and ' necessary war.— (Hear. )—Now I shall take leave to add one word on a subject to which the Hon. Member has also alluded very pointedly in the course of his speech, and which, I know, has made considerable impression, both here and elsewhere. The Hon. Gent. has declared it is well known both in France and in England, that the pre sent Ministry of France owes its appointment to the Go vernment of this country. I have no doubt that the other impressions of the Hon. Member are founded on authority equally erroneous ; but of that he would now say at once, there never was any report so utterly unfounded, so wholly devoid of truth, as that any communication, either direct or indirect, was sent by any individual holding any situa tion in the Governaneut of this country to any member of any party, or holding any situation in France, with re spect to the appointment of Prince Polignac to the head of its Ministry.—(Hear.) A Member from under the Gallery, who we understood to be Lord MANDEVILLE, praised that portion of his Majesty's Speech which promised a reform in the Court of Chancery ; and observed, that although it must be admitted there was considerable distress at present, he hoped the day was not far distant when the country would again en joy prosperity. Alderman WAITHMAN thought it necessary to observe, that although his Majesty's Speech declared the distress to be temporary, and confined to the agriculturists, it would he found that it extended to almost every class in the country. No notice was taken of the retail dealer; but it had been asserted, in another place, that their pros perity was a proof of the limited nature of the distress. Now, he did not know bow the Ministers got this infor mation; but he, who knew a little more of the retail trade than they did, could tell them that the trade was suffering greater losses than it ever sustained before. For his part, he would say that he had no confidence left in the Minis try; and he believed, in saying so, he repeated the opinions of the great majority of the people. . Mr. ROBINSON approved of the pacific and economic policy of the Ministry; but he had voted for the Amend ment, although the Right Hon. Gent. below him ascribed sinister motives to the proposer of it, because he thought it expressed the situation of the country in language more true than the original Address. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER denied that he had ascribed sinister motives to the motion of the Member for Kent (Sir E. Knatchbull.) The Hon. Mem ber ought to recollect it was unparliamentary to ascribe motives of any kind to Zmbers of that House. Lord NORMANBY feared the opinion was but too pre valent on the Continent that the whole tenor of the policy of England went to perpetuate despotism. Only two years ago England held that station which she ought to occupy as the head of the free countries of the world, and the friend of all liberal institutions. He knew no better method to recover that character than to profess honestly, and to act sincerely—hut he feared the Government had obtained such a reputation on the Continent, that it would be long before the friends of freedom would be brought to put trust in its professions. Mr. HART DAVIS had heard one or two circumstances within the last few days, which went far to illustrate the partial nature of the distress. He had conversed with a gentleman connected with a great manufacturing house in Gloucestershire, who told him that their business was so good the house had written to him to take no more orders, as they could not in six months comply with all they had already received, and that every hand which they had ever employed was in full work. He had also dined the other day with a gentleman who had been lately in Dublin, in Ireland—(A. laugh)--and who had much connection with the receivers of rents in Ireland; and that gentleman told him, that in one estate of 30,0001. a year, there had not been one single defaulter. In others the payments were as . . . good, and altogether the agriculturists were flourishing in Ireland. He mentioned this as a proof that even the agri- cultural distress was not universal. Mr. SADLER observed, that the statements of the Hon. Member, with respect to the condition of the ma nufacturers, had a tendency greatly to mislead the public mind on a subject of the utmost importance. The Hon. Member bad stated that a great number of hands were em- ployed by the manufacturers; but the fact was, that in many cases those hands were retained in order that they might have the means of existence. lie also differed en tirely from the Hon. Membey in attributing the distress which existed in the agricultural districts to a bad harvest. He (Mr. Sadler) had never asserted that the distress in the country was so universal that there was no instance to be found of a single claUs of persons by whom it was not felt. He admitted that there were some exceptions to the universality ; but, as in other cases, the exceptions only established the general rule. The members of the Stock Exchange, the great capitalists, for example, were probably among those exceptions. But the industrious and produc tive classes of the people, those by whom the greater num ber of the Members of that House were sent thither, were suffering severe distress. If they wished to knew the state of the commercial interest, let them look at the bankrupt list ; if they wished to know the state of the lower classes, let them look at the amount of the poor rates. He had that morning seen a document, the result of a Meeting in a populous district near Manchester. This document was signed by the Chairman ; and it stated that the distress was overwhelming. Mr. .TOHN STEWART had lately returned from Scot land, where he had been for several months ; and cer tainly the agricultural distress was not so severe in that country as in England. He denied, therefore, the accuracy of the statement that the distress in Scotland was severe, overwhelming, and unprecedented. The harvest of 1828 had exceeded in Scotland the general average in England; so that the Scotch had been enabled to export corn to supply the markets of England. He was satisfied that the distress in England arose from circumstances over which it was impossible that either his Majesty's Ministers or any other persons could have any controul. Mr. O'CONNELL, adverting to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Bristol with respect to the state of Ireland, observed that he had that morning received letters in which the distress existing in that country was painted in the strongest colours. He was sure that nothing would strike the Irish people wtth more astonishment than to hear that any doubt was entertained in this country of the distress under which they were labouring. Mr. FYLER felt himself hound to declare that at Co ventry and in other parts of Warwickshire the distress was severe and unparalleled. Above five and twenty thou sand manufacturers were unemployed. He had several petitions in his possession to present to the House on the subject. As an instance of the distress, he would men tion, that in one of them, from the parish of Nuneaton, it was stated that there were in the parish 7,000 souls, and 6,500 acres of land. They had been accustomed to support themselves partly by agriculture, but mainly by the manufacture of ail:. There were at present 2,500 of the inhabitants dependent on parochial relief. Of the 4,500 remaining, 4,000 were unable to contribute to the rate, and were only just able to drag on a miserable exist ence. Tre whole of the poor rates, therefore, were paid by fewer than 500 persons ; so that each had, upon the aver•• age, to support about ten others. This was no exagger ated description ; but a plain statement of facts. It was said in his Majesty's Speech that the exports of last year were greater than those of any preceding year. This, however, was no index of national prosperity. To ascertain the real state of the case, it was neces sary to show what the returns were, and under what circumstances they were made. It would then appear that in many cases there was no profit, and that in many cases there was positive loss. Nor did the statements of the Right Hon. Secretary of State respecting certain canals prove anything, unless it was first shown that there had been no diminution of trade on other canals, and also Ifs that there had been no dimlnution ;n lanti-carriage. was pleased to hear the Hon. Member for Liverpool admit the other evening the extent of the distress ; and he trusted that the Hon. Member would now allow that some revision of our commercial code ought to take place, in order to see whether the country had derived all the benefit from the principles of free trade which that Hon. Member had anticipated. With respect to the burdens of the State, it appeared to him that they could be diminished only by the most strict and rigid economy. The Noble Duke at the head of the Government must reduce our ex penditure to the level of our means, if he could not raise our means to the level of our expenditure. Mr. ROBINSON, in explanation of what he had said in a former part of the evening, stated that he found be bad been entirely mistaken in supposing that the Right Hon. Chancellor of the Exchequer had imputed sinister motives to the Hon. Baronet who moved the Amendment to the Address on Thursday night. Mr. BARING said, that it was impossible to deny that the distress in the country was very great and very general, and that there was a severe pressure on the labouring classes of the community. When it was considered that this state of things existed after fifteen years of peace, it certainly was a problem deserving of the most serious at tention. Without discussing the exact extent of the dis tress, it appeared to him that it was certainly sufficiently general to call upon Parliament to endeavour to ascertain if there were no means by which it might be al:eviated. The difficulty was to assign any sufficient cause for the evil. Isle confessed that he was ignorant of any general and operating cause adequate to its production. There was one circumstance, however, which ought to be taken into the account in considering the questiori, namely—that the distress was not confined to this country, but that it pervaded the greater part of Europe and America. The cause, therefore, must he of a general character, and not peculiar to this country. It was not surprising, however, that, whatever the cause might be, it acted more exten sively in a country of the description of this, where all the machinery of society was so extremely complicated. It was clear, however, that the cause was not general, al though it had not been discovered. It was easy for igno rant persons to exclaim " It is the fault of Government— Government must do something." Others laid the blame on Parliament. If, however, the acts of that House were looked to, no one could deny that at least those acts were dictated by a sincere desire to prevent or diminish the distress. As far as his own observations went on the nature of the distress, it appeared to him that the greatest sufferers were the agriculturists. Yet that suffering was not occasioned by low prices—such prices as would justify the existence of the distress. The complaint of the farmer was, that the Corn Laws would not secure to him an ade quate compensation. But the Corn Laws were enacted for his immediate protection ; and the answer to his assertion that they did not afford him adequate protection was, that if they gave him greater protection in a time of Scarcity, he could not claim it at the expense of a starving popula tion. It was a great doubt in his mind if the manufactur ing classes could stand the protection which agriculture required. Yet, on the other hand, a removal of the pro tection of agriculture would be an act of extensive injus tice, and would occasion a great revolution in property. It was well known that nine-tenths of the landed property of the country were suffering under mortgages and incurn brances.:lf the existing protection were removed, the pro prietors, without any mismanagement on their part, would be utterly ruined, and the property would pass into other hands. Nothing, therefore, but some extreme ne cessity, would ever induce him to vote against the con tinuance of the protection which the land at present en joyed. With respect to the currency, he fairly confessed, that although he always apprehended that the breaking up of the small note system weuld occasion much soiree ing (justified as he thought Parliament was in adopting the measure for the public security), yet it certainly had been attended with more distress than was anti, cipated. The local circulation in country towns—a circu lation which never could go far out of them—nevertheless assisted materially in affording the means of business in the liatle atmospheres in which it moved. Many persons when deprived of the aid which it afforded, had no other to resort to ; and the branch banks of the Bank of England did not afford a compensating assistance. In country towns, there fore, there was little or no money. This alteration, there fore, was one of the ingredients of the general distress.— But he confessed that at present he should yield with great reluctance to any proposition for a departure from the pre sent system. On the whole, it did not strike him that there was any reason for the exceeding despondency whirls seemed to have seized same Hon. Gent. The iron trade and the siik trade were certainly suffering most deeply ; but he believed that the woollen trade of Yorkshire, notwith standing the representations of one of the Hon. Members for that county, was by no means in a state of distress Although it, no doubt, did not now enjoy the prosperity whirls it enjoyed in former times, he had seen a letter, in which it was stated that the manufacturers had nothing to complain of. Great complaints had been made of the distress occasioned by the introduction of machinery. It was certainly true, that to take labour from the hand, and to perform it by a steam-engine, was the cause of great in dividual injury. It was like the consolidation of a number of small farms into a large and overgrown one. But it was one of the natural operations of industry and knowledge ; one of those operations which all the best authorities on the subject concurred in declaring ought to be left unshackled by any legislative iuterference. He was anxi ous to say a single word upon the questions which bad been agitated respecting the course of foreign policy pur sued by Government. He owned that he differed very widely from those who thought that our Government ought to have meddled more with the affairs of Europe. He not only could not blame them for not having done so ; but he was sincerely glad, that amidst all the discussions which had taken place with reference to continental mat ters, we still found ourselves in a state of peace. We had nothing to do with the interests of many of the Conti nental States. If, as compared with the times when England was interfering in every thing, English travellers were not treated as prodigiously important persons at the various tables-d'hdte of Europe, the circumstance might be mortifying to them, but the country had its coospensa tion. To Russia, to Austria, to France, continental in terests were matters of paramount importance. But it was not so to England. If this country were offered the pessessien of a portion of the Netherlands, or of any other part of the continent, that Government would be a sense less one by which such an offer would be accepted. We had no community of interest with a great part of the continent. Portugal was, perhaps, an exception to that rule. If we observed France or Spain meditating hostility towards Portugal, it would indeed become a serious ques tion whether we ought not to interfere. But lie could see no reason for our interfering with the internal affairs of Portugal. It was impossible to read the history of that country without feeling that the reign of the present Monarch was a disgraceful one. For himself, lie would certainly prefer another Sovereign, but still he felt grateful to Government for having avoided involving this country in a war upon the subject, In the present state of the country, if there was any one subject of paramount interest to every class, it was the promo tion of peace and order. If the Government could pro mote the tranquillity of this country, and the cessation of that sort of warfare with which other countries are threatened, they would do infinitely more good than by any other exertions they could use. At present, Mexico was kept under subjection by military chiefs ; and whether the chief should be such a hum as Bolivar, Santa Anna, or Barrettes, he would avail himself of war and confusion to retain the ascendancy over his country. He would not speak of those who hail risked their money in that country, but he would merely allude to the conduct of the British Government with respect to Mexico. The next ques tion was one of right. If this country did prohibit an attempt on the part of Mexico to attack Cuba, it ought in justice, to have prohibited the attack upon Mexico from Cuba. Whether the prohibition was a matter of right or not, it ought to have been reciprocal. After a lapse of seven years, this country had a right to consider the Spanish Governments as Governments de facto. The Right Hon. Gentleman had argued that Portugal was a Government de facto, but surely the argument applied more strongly to the Governments of South America. Let this country now acknowledge the independence of Mexico, having given old Spain seven years to attempt the re-conquest. Spain had preserved no forbearance during the struggle of England with her North American Colonies. She had interfered during the middle of the war. He must say that upon the great affairs of the country, since the House last met, he did not see any thing that could be laid to the door of Government. He should be sorry to see the Government, of which he found no fault, in anywise disturbed. Mr. A'I'TWOOD said, that the Hon. Member who had just sat down had observed that great distress pre vailed throughout the country, without any apparent cause, and he hail likewise said that the distress could not be applied to any measure of Government. He (Mr. Attwood) must beg leave to reed to the attention of the Hon. Member the terms in which he.had himself de scribed one measure adopted by the House. He alluded to the alteration in the value of money, when he had said that that alteration had affected every contract in the United Kingdom by 24, 30, or 40 per cent. The Go vernment interference with this great instrument had im posed an additional burthen on the country, and hence was one source of its difficulties. The Act had passed in 1819—it had been superseded in 1622, and had not come into full operation till 1626. He regretted to hear the Right Hon. Gent. opposite talk so much of the wisdom and integrity of the House ; for his part, he would be glad to heat more of modesty within the walls of that House, and less of vituperation without them; for be was sorry to say, that there was an increasing opinion that the House was totally inefficient for the great functions and duties it was constituted to perform. The operations of Government were calculated to spread pecuniary embar rassment throughout the world. He had the authority of the Committee appointed to inquire into agricultural dis tresses, to state that those distresses had been occasioned by a recurrence to cash payments. Mr. THANT thought that the agricultural interests were in a bad state, according to the accounts of that House. _ _ _ Mr. AIABERLY said that agriculture had a right to remuneration or protection only in the same respect as commerce or manufactures. If they legislated for a remu nerating price to agriculture, they might as well legislate for a remunerating price for cotton, iron, and other ar ticles of trade. The idea was preposterous. The Corn Laws were nothing else than laws to starve the people. He had no doubt that much of the distress arose from a defect of local circulation. There could not be a better practical proof of this than %kat, with reference to every article of exchange, money was the most scarce. Mr. Ricardo had observed, that when a country became ex tremely rich, capital competed with capital, and profits were low ; so that low profits were proofs not of poverty, hut of wealth. England had arrived at that state, and so had other countries, it was evident, from their lowering the interests of their money. The question was then put and carried. Upon the CHANCELLOR of the' EXCHEQUER making the ordinary motion for the House resolving itself into a Committee 9f Supply, Mr. HUME took the opportunity of expressing a hope that the Government would see the propriety, before the vote of supply, of laying before the House a clear state ment of the extent to which the promised reductions were to be carried. Mr. LAMB moved for a New Writ for the Borough of Knareiborough, in lieu of the Right Hon. George Tierney, deceased. TITHES. Mr. GREENE conceived it to be needless to detain the House at any length, in moving for leave to bring in the Bill of which he had given notice. Addressing land owners, he need not inform them of the inconveniencies they sustained from the present system of tithes, and an extensive correspondence in which he had been engaged with parochial Clergy, satisfied him that they were as anxious as the landholders for some change in the mode of collecting tithe. He felt the importance of not approach ing such a subject rashly and inconsiderately ; and he was therefore glad to avail himself of the precedent, which had been set in the numerous private Acts passed on this sub ject. To each of these the consents of the Bishop, the patron, the incumbent, and the landowners had been given, and he therefore felt assured, that from a measure following strictly the course that had been adopted in them, no injury could accrue to any party. The present Bill was of a permissive nature. It only went to authorize the ap pointment of Commissioners at once, instead of requiring a private Act in every instance. Those Commissioners being necessarily men of education—men placed beyond the suspicion of countenancing anything unfair—jus tice may reasonably be expected to be done to all parties. They would be judges of the reports of the tithe valuers, by whom the value of the tithes of any parish for the preceding 14 years should be as certained, and whatever that might prove, should be affixed as a rent charge upon the parish forever, variable, however, by averages of the price of wheat to be struck every seven years, so as to meet the changes in the value of money. In order further to prov:de against alterations which may take place in the value of agricultural produce, inclosure ' and improvement of land, each party at the end of twenty one years may call for a fresh Commission to ascertain the actual value of all such matters as may have been decided by the award of the First Commissioners to be tithable, but they are to have no power to disturb the determina tions of the former Commissioners respecting moduses, or other partial or entire exemption. This scheme, he ad mitted, was not new, and he regarded its want of novelty as a strong recommendation to it. It bad been tried partially, and found to answer, and a plan similar to this had been submitted to the House in the Report of the Commissioners of Land Revenue, in 1792. The Hon. Member concluded by expressing the sincerity and warmth of his attachment to the Church Establishment, and his firm conviction that the Bill now before them, if passed into a law, was calculated to afford ease and comfort to the Clergy, to secure to them permanent and settled incomes ; and while it relieved the landowner from many of the inconveniences which press on him, would also relieve the Clergyman from much that is painful to him, and must tend to enlarge his sphere of useful ness. He called on the House to support the measure. Mr. HUME was not sorry at the Hon. Member's revival of his motion, but he regretted that he persevered in the clause which gave the possessors of tithes a right to parti cipate in the advantages of new capital spent on the land.— This would have the effect of preventing improvements in agriculture. He considered that tithes, as they now ex isted, were a check upon the improvement of the country. When tithes were first instituted there was little or no wealth in the country on which they were to be raised, ex cept land ; but now there were other sources from which they were derived, and derived, too, in an amount far ex ceeding their ancient value. This circumstance made such an alteration, in the nature of tithes and their operation, that a change in their mode of payment became necessary, and, in his opinion, they ought to be paid out of funds raised by the public in the same way as were the army and navy. His plan was to appoint Commissioners and to take the value of tithes in every parish in the country, and then to allow proprietors of lands the opportunity of pu' chasing them, giving a full and fair value for them as for any other article brought into the market. There could be no difficulty in this. There were two species of tithes—lay and clerical. The sale of the former was as common as that of a twopeuny loaf; and their value was easily capable of being ascertained, as, indeed, it was constantly ascertained between buyer and seller. As to the Clerical Tithes, he would have them all brought into one fund, and have the Clergy paid out of it. This would relieve the agriculture of the country, and thousands—he might almost say mil lions—of persons now unemployed would then find em ployment; for many who now avoided investing their money in property liable to tithe according to its increased value, would then endeavour to make improvements in it, and by so doing would give employment to a great num ber of persons. The principle of interference with tithes was now, he was happy to say, recognised and admitted, even by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite; though, when he first introduced it, he was as nauch decried as if he were a robber on the hi g hway.—(Hear.) —Though he thought this Bill did not go far enough, he would yet sup port it ; but he should be much pleased if the clause which limited these agreements; to 21 years were with drawn, and they were permitted to be perpetual. Mr. TRANT was sure the country gentlemen of Eng land would never suffer the vested rights of the Clergy to be invaded. As to tithes being a charge on the land, everybody made his arrangements accordingly, and the purchaser of land paid less for it on account of the charge he knew to be existing on it. He never wished to see the Clergy made the subject of spoliation. Mr. HUME denied that he intended to recommend spoliation of any kind. He wished every thing to be done on the principle of fair compensation. Mr. GREENE said, that his great object in introducing the Bill was to promote peace and harmony among all classes ; and he hoped and trusted such would be the effect of this measure. Leave was given to bring up the Bill. It was brought up, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday, the 19th. Mr. PENDARVIS presented a petition upon the sub ject of the St. Giles's Vestry Bill. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Nine o'clock. A correspondent suggests the idea of abo lishing franks, which would produce towards the revenue nearly 500,000/. Last week an old man, by trade a tailor, died in Coupar Angus. He was a person of singular habits and prol•ensities. He shunned all communication either with neighbours or relations, living a hermit in the midst of busy life. The hovel he inhabited was of the most wretched description, and as filthy as a hog-sty. Love of treasure accompanied, and was, perhaps, partly the cause of, his misanthropy. He occasionally peeped from his cage, and even sometimes undertook a journey to Perth to receive interest on money invested there. He bad not been seen some days, and the neighbours sus pected all was net right. They at length entered, and found him stretched lifeless on his miserable touch. Among the rage that covered it were found a large quan tity of bank-notes--under it, bills and obligations to the amount of nearly 2,000/.—and below a loose stone in the floor of the cell was disclosed a stone-ware vessel full of gold and sil►er coins of various descriptions and value. — Perth Courier. tMIGRATION-PAUPERISM. Extracts from " Causes and Remedies of Pauperism"— Comspondence between the Right Hon. R. Wilmot Horton and M. Duchatel. LETTER PROM THE RIGHT HON. R. WILMOT HORTON, 11. P., TO MONS. DUCHATEL. MY DEAR SlR,—Your answer to my letter upon the question of expense is perfectly satisfactory ; because I am prepared to spew that, in my own country, the ex pense of colonization is less than the expense of home maintenance ; and having demonstrated that fact, I am entitled to claim your authority in support of the policy of the measure. The principal and most successful argument which is employed against me, by' persons whose authority com tnands an attentive consideration of their criticism, is the following :—That it, by a national effort, the proportions between capital and labour were restored, upon which the prosperity of the poorer classes depends, the additional sti mulus which would be given to the remaining population by the abstraction of redundant labourers, would at a very early period reproduce the evil, and that, consequently, the expense would be thrown away. To speak with plainness, notwithstanding the sanction of these authori ties, /ant of opinion that nething can be less true or less philosophical than this objection. I consider that, with reference to population, there are three states of society, which specially operate upon its rate of increase. The first state is, where, from the inde finite supply of land of the first quality, there is a greater temptation to colonize and spread, than to labour for hire ; consequently, where wages are high, and where the lower classes of society feel that children are a source of wealth, power, and enjoyment. It is superfluous to say, that, under these circumstances, that spring and stimulus is given to population, which has been remarked in the statistics of certain infant states. The second state of society is, where the proportions between labour and capital are pretty correctly adjusted, and where labour is sufficiently remunerated to enable a man of average strength, with average economy, to sup port himself and an average family in point of number. It is in that state of society, that the prudential cheek has the greatest tendency to operate, inasmuch as it is a state in which, although children may not prove a source of positive benefit, they may become a source of private com fort and satisfaction, without having poverty and misery entailed upon them and their parents as the consequence of their birth. I consider this to be the state of France at the present moment. The third and last state is one where population is re dundant in reference to the demand for labour, and conse quently, where the condition of the labouring classes of society is universally deteriorated, and n.any individual members of those classes are reduced to a state of absolute pauperism. In this condition of society, equally hopeless and reck less, marriages are contracted under the natural impulse of human feeling, without any prudential considerations, in asmuch as no exercise of prudential considerations appears to the parties sufficient (and they are perfectly correct in their logic in that opinion) to remedy the extent of the evil as applicable to themselves. It may indeed be true that, if the prudential check were to be brought into operation in a country like Ireland, where a redundant population exists, it might effectually cure the evils of such redundancy in some future generation; but it could not produce those substantive and immediate effects, the pros pect of which would prompt those parties who suf fer, to have recourse to it, as a remedy by which they themselves might benefit. There is therefore no adequate motive to resist that natural impulse which prompts to marriage. I believe that this third state is, more or less, the state of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ire land at the present period ; although I am decidedly of opinion that, were it not for Ireland, it would not be the condition of Great Britain. I find a forcible and familiar illustration of this opinion, in a passage in thoSe letters on the state of Ireland, which were written with so much ability by a friend of yours, in the year 1827: " Quand on est ai pituvre, pourquoi, dira-t-on, se marier? Alive prklter cette doctrine au paysan Irlandais, et prouvea-lui, Malthus it la main, que le mariage empire as condition. Je ne phis etre plus mal, vows repondra-t•il, et je ne me refuserai point le sett] bonheur qui me reste." Now, it appears to me in the highest degree true and philosophical to maintain, that if a country can he taken, by a national effort, out of this third state, and placed in the second, the prudential check on the part of the lower classes (which we both consider to be the only effectual check), will be snore likely to be in operation, and conse quently, that, so far from a greater stimulus to the re. maining population being given by the abstraction of the redundant portion, the existing. stimulus will be di- minished. - But I have heard it observed that, although the pru dential check might come into operation more efficiently after an abstraction of redundant labourers, yet a check at present in operation, namely, the destruction of the lower classes by distress and misery, may be diminished after such a nation,' effort, and the absence of that check may lead to the reproduction of the abstracted pauperism. Here again, I beg to recur to the description of an Irish peasant's cabin, given by the author of the " Letters on the State of Ireland." " Entrez dans Bette miserable butte de terre, sans cheminee, sins lit, sans meubles d'aueune espece; et regardez cette famille nombreuse, qui, etendue pole-mete stir le sol, n'a pas meme un matelas pour as toucher, une couverture pour etendre stir sod." I cannot possibly admit that this state of existence, de scribed with so much energy and effect, so revolting to all ideas of civilization, so repugnant to every principle of humanity, is, at the same time, so conveniently destructive of human life, that it is impolitic to attempt to remedy it, from the dread of thereby producing an additional stimu lus to the ratio of population. It is unnecessary to observe to a person so conversant with these subjects as yourself, that if the proportions be tween capital and labour, after having been restored, were duly maintained, the numerical increase of the population would be an advantage instead of an evil. But if the view which I take, of the comparative effects of a state of hope less misery, and of a state of comparative independence, upon the ratio of increase of population, be correct, the re sult of such an abstraction of redundant labour from a country in the former state, as would bring the remaining population into the latter, would not he to produce even such numerical increase. If an emigration of labourers were to take place from France, where able-bodied pauperism can be scarcely said to exist, or in other words, vrbere labourers competent to work may find employment if they choose to seek it, a sti mulus would be given to the remaining population; be cause, the emigration consisting of persons mainly employed in productive industry, their absence would necessarily raise materially and inconveniently the wages of the re maining labouring classes ; and the effect of the improve ment in their condition would operate as an encourage ment to population. It is a mere truism to say, that wages ,tence h . a v In oth e r tendency words,to s t a t l e down population to t h c e an poi nt e safely mul tiply,sub- „i as long as individuals can rece ive, for their labour, a sum sufficient to keep them in an average state of subsist ence. Such would be the state of the United Kingdom, if a national effort of colonization were to take place ; and though an incalculable improvement, as contrasted with dependence, misery, and want, it would not be a state which cc a w c o snui,e u enf l eto d ycirf yuesaeni where c uci o i, euereroeage e m i gra t i o n fi turh ce a t sd tti question ned r f d e ra p un, n r nt oy4 labourdao u nu c tioy h o weve r , Francen of s ientxhi hse etsgr,general population, nsraeentrs hdae i n l presen t c ond i t i o n . n: degradation ref s aride in t 1 e any of the condition of the lower classes, a na ti ona l e ff or t a w tti e ho r :e ; to remove that redundancy, and restore proportion between capital and labour, are you of opinion, that the prudential check to the multiplication of the labouring classes beyond the real demand for labour in such a country, would be found to be less substantively in operation, subsequently to that change, than it bad been, prior to the restoration of those proportions ? I have the honour to remain, my dear Sir, with great regard, yours ever faithfully, R. WILMOT HORTON. TRANSLATION OF THE AYSIVER OF MONSIEUR DUCHA. TEL TO THE PRECEDING LETTER. your third letter, you ask me my opinion with respect to one of those problems which the theory of po pulation presents. The question is, whether the preven tion which habits of foresight offer to an inconvenient in crease of population, is more . efficacious in a state of so ciety, where the ra te of wages sufficient to secure to the labourer a state of comparative independence, o r i n th e con trary state , where miser y is universal, and where the labourer, from wanting the means of subsistence, is com pelled to depend on the resources of charity, whether ad minis,;ered privately or publicly. Ireland, in your opi nion, realises at the present day this second hypothesis; whereas sup position coulde ou c h o i n i d )e i t t i h o n e h p h p ic h i y lot s o i f n ‘lv that - ed in t country, li first t h the go vernment of Great Britain took measures sufficient to establish the proportions between population and the de mand for labour. I will endeavour, as shortly as pos. bible, to give you my opinion upon this point. In striking a comparison between the degree of f re sight exercised by the labourer who is in a state of cow.. parative independence, and the tabourer in a state of tol sery, it appears to the unquestionable that the advantage's on the side of the former. A state of comparative inde-_ pendence develops the intellect, and excites, in the breast of every man, sentiments of personal dignity, self-respect , and care for the future. A state of misery, on the r(15 .. trary, extinguishes the intellect, as it brutalizes the cha racter. In point of fact, for what object (as has beta often remarked with perfect justice) should the, wretched individual make an effort to improve his condition, with out the probability of success, and in so deing,_sacrifice the only enjoyments which the circumstances of society . have left to him? The pursuit of .the object in such case would he fruitless, nor would there exist the power of discerning its advantages. If this proposition be true of every population in a state of indigence, so much more it is true in Ireland, where the causes of distress are so accumulated, that years of foresight and pi ivation must pa's away, before the con dition of the labouring classes could receive any ameliora tion from the exercise of such preventive checks. On this account, I have no hesitation in expressing my opinion that if the situation of Ireland be such as it appears to be, from the concordant testimony of all witnesses, it is impos sible that the Irish population can emerge, by its own efforts, from that state of degradation and misery in which it now unfortunately languishes, and which calls so im peratively on the attention of the English Government. On these grounds, Sir, it appears to me, that the pre ventive check must operate with more effect, when the labouring classes receive a sufficient rate of wages, than when they are placed in a permanent state of distress. But, it may he inquired, what is likely to be the result, when a population passes rapidly from the second rate to the first, that is, from a state of misery to a state of compara tive comfort? Here it is to be apprehended that the power of custom would not immediately give way to the influence of an improved condition, and that the moral change would not be accomplished so quickly as the physical one. Conse quently it would be necessary, for the purpose of diminish ing the influenoe of previous habits, to employ all means of instruction, to spread correct principles, to recommend the exercise of foresight,—in a word, to have recourse to all the possible means of a Government, for the purpose if accelerating the intellectual development of the labouring classes, and thereby advancing the progress of prudential habits, in proportion to the improvement of the physical condition of the population. But, for the purpose of still more accurately explaining my opinions, as to the advantages of emigration, I mast be permitted to suggest certain alternative conditions. Ist. That, after the proportions between labour and capital have been restored by emigration, measures are taken to arrest the progress of those causes which had pro duced the superabundance of population. Should this precaution be realised, it is evident that emigration is ad vantagenu., provided that it cost less to colonize a family than to maintain it in the mother country. 2dly. That, after the emigration, the causes of the excess of population continue to operate with undiminished force. In this second case the st •to of comfort into which the labouring classes would be brought, would tend to the formation of habits if foresigl t, and might furnish an obstacle to the recurrence of the previous distress. But, putting aside this circumstance, emigration might still offer an advent:se in an economical point of view ; for the population removed by emigration could not he instantaneously replaced, and in any ease, a popu lation of adults could only be replaced by a pepulatios of infants. Emigration would therefore be advantageous, if the expenditure required to effect it, combined with the cost of the maintenance of the new infant population, amounted to has than would have been required for the maintenance of the abstracted families if they had re mained in the mother country. Sdly. Suppose, lastly, that the causes, which excited the increase of population, are of such a character that their force is augmented in proportion as the population is multiplied, as would be the rase, for example, with re- spect to a system of public charity, which should promise to furnish the means of subsistence to all applicants, and should keep that promise. In this case, it is evident that emigration, in removing a part of the population, would tend to abate the operation of these causes, inasmuch a* their effect would be proportioned to the number of fami lies, which number would be diminished by emigration. There would then remain only one question to be solved, namely, wl:ether the expense of emigration would be greater or less than the expense of maintaining, in the mother country, not only the emigrants themselves, but also their descendants. I hope, .Sir, that I have satisfactorily answered your questions. I have confined myself to the task of present ing certain " formulae." For the application of those for mulas, it is necessary to examine facto, and to establish punitive calculations. This may he done by those, who, like yourself, have specially studied the statistical part of the practical question. For soy own part, my incompe tence obliges me to limit myself to general principles. From the moment that the question of expense ani profit is resolved in favour of emigration, as compared with domestic maintenance, political economy has only to approve the measure; for, by placing industrious men upon fertile soils, it combines the powers of mays with those of nature, and thus gives fresh impulse to those principles which furnish the double source of indi vidual and national wealth. Accept, Sir, the assurmsce of the sentiments, &e. kc• TANNEGUY DUCHATEL. THE SAILORS' NEW ASY LUM.—The distress of Sailors, shipwrecked, or unable to obtain ships during the severity of the winter, has been exceeding. great. The New Sailors' Asylum, as a department of the Sailors' Rest Society, has been crowded every night as a. place of shelter. Oatmeal porridge, soup, sea-biscuit, and sea-clothing, have been liberally distributed among the most destitute, and very gratefully received. Several have been removed to the Sailors' Infitmary, near the Asylum, in Wellelose-square, and some from the prevalence of fever have been ordered by Dr. SOUTHWOOD SMITH. the consul,ing Physician, to the Fever Hospital at Pancras. Several have died through previous want and cold, on the north bank of the Thames. The public Meeting of the Sailors' Rest is fixed for the 11th February.--See Ad vertisement. General BARRADAS has gone from Havre to Paris, whence he intends to proceed to Madrid. We are informed that two of Mr. GURNEY'S steam-coaches will be commenced on the western road about the middle of March. Three are already completed. erry has not, at this moment, a single Peer or Baronet resident ‘N its limits. The rents drawn annually out of Kerry amount to the enormous sum of 160,0001. which are lavished either in different parts of the Continent or in the capital of Great Britain.—Lime rick Evening Post. On Sunday morning a gradual thaw com menced, accompanied during the day by much rain.-- Towards the evening the previous heavy falls of snow had nearly disappeared, both from the streets and houses; and Monday mc , rning actually broke upon us as the first day of Spring, the thermometer, which on Saturday morning was scarcely 20, hisviag on the latter day, at the same hour, reachecl A muting of the county of Renfrew was held in the County Hall, Joint MAXWELL, Esq., M.P., in the chair, at which resolutions were adopted regarding the present distressed state of the county and the country in general, expressing a hope that Parliament would take . the matter into consideration, and craving them to take into consideration the reduction of the duties on sugar and beer,—two of the most useful reductions that could possibly be thought of. A very animated discussion on these topics preceded the adoption of the resolutions, in the course of Which it was stated by various speakers that taxation alone was the cause of the present sufferings.... Glasgow Journal. Extract from a letter dated Valparaiso, Bth October :—" On the 26th ult. we had a severe shock of an earthquake, which in force was little short of that of 1392, but only of about one-eighth in duration. The injury done to the buildings is considerable, but by no means equal to the former occasion, very few houses hav ing fallen, though more or less, all are shook. It occurred in this place at three minutes after two p.m." A letter from Naples of the 19th tilt, states the existence of a report tl:ere that the plague hi made its appearance in Pisa , and it was thou g ht rigtt conse quently to interdict al l communication. A veml arrived f ro m Leghorn had been placed under quarantine. An English gentleman residing at St. Ger. main-en•Lnve, has received a letter from a person attacbsd to Lord CPCHRAKE, which ler.ves no doubt of his Lord ship's d e terminat:on to re-enter the Brazilian service, and take the c ommand of the fleet destined to act agaimt Deft Miourt. The military force will consist of the refuges army, augmented by a German regiment, which will pass from de service of Don Panto into that of DtixxV" 31Assrs. They will first take posseasion of the'Asocei t old the Cape de Verd Islands, and from thence proceed to attack the Peninsula by a coup de main,— U a tignanri' Messenger. Sank stock 3 s Per etnt. 3r etnt e 4 4 tt Red .. 4 tro,cent. ti X Otto L. Ann 3 0 Year Inclia )1403 0 year , s. s tock ultto B o d s PRICES OF Austrian o] liraziilan ktleno t A yrc llian or.c ~'Nerobian B bitto IFt24 tannish reek Bo . n • de 182 3 Guatirnala. • kexican bitto, 1823 • PRICE! t Mall „ at Im Dittoatii /teal del N Atm Ge Stea Arrived. Arne r i 1 Brasil • Buena o Carthi 0 Dublin 0 Flanch o Franc, 0 Guerra HIGH 1 410Tnin,.. - 1111)g TUESI Despal Office, ti at Lisbol Lord BE the diffe r ward Isla of South Lord ] t his morr of th e 134 Th e r i apers, 1 We 1 the Car Decemk death of (From Early Chief GI affliction, women, 1 topergtiti progeny Nagions; !lamed ex We le the weal} looking t generally grain. Years. 1 Pape sth of OCtObel this yi i nalinch Rtirring !ottiethi betw ee ,, Th e *gain " conBi Ac e , Cap e, b e t weer th e aril "ranl,ta