The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-20 00:00:00

bided to I y the Noble Lord (Roden). It he were per- ' =idea to make inquiries, he had no doubt but that he should Ire able to show that the same principle which had reeulated the conduet of the Board eeneral'y had regu lated them in these case.. But supposing the case to he as it was mated, still there were only forty-nine case.; out of 497 (scarcely one tenth part) compl tined of. All he could say was, that they had exerted every care and pates to ermine , their busine.s in the mos t ec onomical and the most effectual m inner, and an this in the midst of a sys. tem of persecution and delusion which would have been ennuith to deter mo-t men from proceeding.; Net only the commissioners , end agents of the institution, hut thnse who sent the it children to the rich , obi had been designated as infide's, apostates. everythine opprebriens that language could supply- They dared not publish their names be cause their eh .ranters were liahle to a species of moral assassination. One of the n noxious parties said he thought the burninee in the smith of Ireland not worse than the pets cntion. mn recount of these schools in ti e north ; and he mentioned one or more Preehyterien congregations which h ,n set seainst thei r n asto4 (as we understood). and had heen ir - hived to insult t em in the streets. It had also h-en nhjec ed to the Society that t' ey had used comptilsisn in th e establishment of come se) no'‘ ; but he esu'd as-ore 'twit Lerdships thst no feree hail ever been «mrd Ned for , her than this—they i ad told the patties. here is ni"fd'y : if sou a ish to lists Nike it ; /me don't t a ke it if tau , isn't ike it. They had slso been te'd t' at Preteseinos were to h • depriv. d efthe n•eef t e B For hi part he did net wish to a rrip- 1 an, one it, teed the Bible. To do so would neither he of any service to relieion, nor crtnsis•ent with the proper spirit of Chris• tianity ; het they had made it imperative in sll their schools, that a certain portion ef the week shotild b , set apart for religions instruction—one day, he be!ieverl, be sides Sunday. Those who had any scruple against such instruction, had it in their power to withdraw themselvis ; and any clereymen in the neighbourhood might appoint a day in the week in which the children of his own deno mination might read nothing hut the Scriptures, or the Homilies of the Church. The children real the Bible one bent a-day for five days in the week, and the other two days they read nothing but the Bible. He NI ould ask how many of these children of the parties—how many of t',emselves read the Bible so it uch ? He would ask whether such instruction as that contemplated by the institution were given ? These children would know more of the Bible than under most other systems. At the same he would not deny that in many cases the instruction was not given, because the clergy in the respective neighbourhoods, whose duty it would have been to carry the intentions of the institution into effect, had refus.d to give instructions to any of the children in these schools. What right then had they to complain of the effects of their own wrong ? De they dread contamination front going into the schools ? If the Apostles heti never gone into a Jewish synagogue, how would the Christian religion have been promulgated? It St. Paul had never preached the Gospel upon the hill of Nay, none of us, perhaps, would ever have heard of it. The Benevolent Society of St. Patrick, which had been established for fifty years, had, as one of its principal re gulations, an order to the teachers to tee that the chil dren should attend to the:r religious duties—Protestants and Catholics, according to their respective ereeds—their principles extending to all. As to the mutilation of the Scriptures, he had always understood that a mutilation was when a work was given as complete, while it was really deficient ; but certainly the term could not be ap plied to such a work as that of Mrs. Trimmer on the Bible. He could not go through all the accusations daily brought forward against the Commissioners, and himself in particular, in the Dublin newspapers. The greater part of them he had not seen ; for lie d.d not read them, and should not know any thing of them unless a friend should happen to tell him of them. For as hat had come tin& r his notice, he could say that five or six libels appeared in these prints every week. A system of terrorism was regularly acted neon. With regard to falsehoods stated in these prints, there were one or two every day. In one else it had been said, that signatures of clergymen to ap plieetions for the establishment of a school had been ob tained by fraud and delusion. He hid no doubt that many cases of that nature may have occurred, for fraud and delusion were not peculiar to any one part of Ire land. One case had been mentioned at a meeting in Dubin, and had excited great indignation. It was that of a clergyman, who was stated to have been carried away to some place privately, and there entrapped to sign a paper for introducing a schstol into his parish ; but on being told by his friends what a wicked act he had been guilty of, he retracted his signature. He trusted that no one who knew him could believe that such a thing ever happened, or that he could be guilty of kidnapping a clergyman for any such purposes. The assertion, how ever, had been sufficiently contradicted by the defiance which had been published to the authors of the calumny, challenging them to bring proof—a d, fiance which they hail never dared to answer. He knew that in many cases signatures hail been retracted, and the Commissioners bad been blamed because the grants had not been im mediately withdrawn. They had always in such cases considered the signatures as if they had never existed ; but it frequently happened that there were other signatures to the application which the society consi dered sufficient, and in that case they did not withdraw the grants. Ile only recollected two cases of clergy men who retracted their eignwores. One of them, alter signing his application, had been persuaded to withdraw it by a daughter-in law, who intimated his wish to the Boats'. They refuse'( to consider it will d rawn, until h. should notify it to 'hem Lin self. This be did net do till a month after, and his signature was then withdr.wn. Another case was that of a rector, who, in his (the Arch. hint op of Dublin's) presence, had been asked by his curate whether he should make an application for such a school ? The rector answered, certainly ; but was after• wards induced to change his determination. With respect to tie gatblir g t.f ti e extracts, it might with equal pro priety h., said that the Epistles were garbled, as they were published separately. Thee was no possibility of finding any trensl .6 , 41 the Bible which would suit Catholics and Protestants; for even the Drury Bible—ths one trans lated f om the Cathelic authorized version—'he Vulgate— was net awls , rized by that Church. The Apocrypha also creased diffieuldes, inasmuch as it was not admitted into the Proses ant cephs of d e Scriptu though it turned one of the feundatiens of the Remelt Catholic faith There was, then fest, no rout-e !eq. but to aiopt some 8.4 e, ti, n which tv,.tild tee equally unet jeetionelde both parties. that aelec ion were so made, a te elliiiiit a garbled view of tl e dectrinet of the Proteeta t .• Church—if it were so frig rued as to favniir the tenets . Roman Catholic Church, it never could have been ap prmed of by the members to the Prirestimt urch, wh, here among the Coornu.i.sionet s. The different creeds of England. Ireland, and Scotland, had their representatives in that Commission, end it was not likely that they would show any peculiar favour to the Roman Catholics. Bur their accusers did not wait till they saw what the nature of the selection would be. They chose rather to argue upon the very improbable assumption, that a Cotnmission so constituted would produce a garbled selection from the Bible, and upon that assumption they bounded the outcry raised against these schools. if they had waited till they bad seen the selection, and had found that it was liable to the objections which they anticipated, then would be the time for staring their exceptions to it. He had only just received the proof sheets from the printer, and he %sae therefore able to speak with certainty respecting the accu sations which had been brought against the selection. One of these was founded on the supposition that there were some passages selected in such a way as appeared to sanction the worship of the Virgin Mary ; whereas tbere was not one word which could bear that interpretation. A second objection was, that the whole of the selection from the New Testament was confined to one half-sheet. Now, that half sheet consisted of that mutilation of the Scriptures called the Gospel of St. Luke. It was also said, that another passage, which in our Bible is, " Repent, and be baptized, for the kingdom of Heaven is at hand," the word " repent" had been changed into "do penance." was, therefore, argued that the alteration tended to overthrow the whole Scripture doctrine of repentance; and certainly any thing which could have that effect - would, in hii opinion, be open to the remarks of the op posers of these schools, which, in such a case, would not be mole severe than just. Certainly, if any discredit had been ithed upon the important doctrine of repentance, he should he the last man to support the selection. There was one circumstance, however, which the parties who made these assertions might probably think 01 little im portancel but whi c h h e was sure wou ld b e o f some we i g h t with their Lordship, and that was, that the assertion was entitely destitute of truth.—(Hear.) He pledged himself to their Lordships, on his honour, that he • had never in the slightest shape proposed the alteration of that passage to the Board. It good as it was in the authorized version, "Repent ye, for the Kingdom of Heaven ie "at hand !" Indeed it was observed that by letting :the passage stand in this shape, it would be a "means of avoiding disputes, for though the protest an t wou ld object to doing penance, both Catholic and Prot estan t would agree in the necessity of repentance. He was fully sensible of the importance of this passage, and he hoped that those who had taken part in th e propagation of so slanderous a report, would immediately an d p ublicl y t estif y their repentance of it.—(Cheers.) This was a spe cimen, and no more than a specimen of the reports which had been circulated from one end of the kingdom to the other —these were the engines which were made use of to divert and delude the people—hut he appealed to their Lordships whether this could le called giving the plan a fair trial.— ( Hear.) All those who endeavouted to aid in the intro duction of this system, lad met the most severe proaecu tr ,n—their motives had been assailed, and their characters hunted down. This was the species of Scriptural muti lation to which he of jested—that practical mutilation of th e Scriptures which made men resist that important pre cept, " Do as you is ould wish to be done by."—( Hear, hear.) Nor had this atitation been confined to Ireland. In England—in London, meetings had been held at a place —Exeter Hall, he believed it was called ; at Bath, Liver pool, and other towns. But how were these meetings got up? They were founded upon a system—the exc'u sion of all persons who did not come there prepared to oppose the measures,—They were told that the Protestants were to be excluded from seeing the Bible, and they ex pressed an earnest desire that that Bible should not be taken away from the people of Ireland—a desire in which he most heartily concurred. They were told that the children in Ireland were to he delivered over to th e Catholic Priesthood whether they would or not; and many other gross misstatements were made, they having previously taken care to exclude all possibility of contra diction. But why, I e asked, did they not give the people in oppertunity of fairly exercising their judgment? Why did they lead them away by delusion ? Why resort, as they had done to persecution and intimidation ? (Chie , s.) He was ready to pledge himself—he w a s ready to give a pledge on behalf of his colleagues—that bing ,f the kind should ever be exercised in favour of the system. and he called on those opposed to it to exert tl etnselvea in a similar manner, and then they might he enabled to obtain a fair trial of the workings of the fu stern ; but it was utterly impos•ible to say whether the experiment would succeed, much less had they any right to say it had not succeeded when it had not yet been tried. It had not yet been tried as many months are the Kildare , place Sineety had existed years, and yet they were told that the Kildare place Society had not yet received a fair trial. It was absurd, therefore, to say that the new system hod been sufficiently tried.—(Hear, hear.) He was compelled to call on their Lordships to take some thing on his assertion, which he could but dared not prove, lest he should sacrifice the comfort, peace, and safety of sonic highly deserving and respectable indivi duals. He pledged himself that there were many clergy men, both Protestant arid Presbyterian, who approved of this system, hut who dared not support it for fear of corn ing in collision with their neighbours and fri. rids where they resided. They dared not expose themselves to the cla mour that would be raised against them, or encounter the obloquy and abuse which was sure to be poured on them Some clergymen had personally, but privately, communi cated this to him, whose names, of course, he could not betray. Others had written to the same effect, and in some cases they bad refused to support the system, although they strongly approved of it, because the Bishop of the diocese had signed a paper against it—they did not like to have their names in print opposed to their respective Bishops. He hoped that all persons who wished to enjoy true liberty, and the unmolested right of expressing their sentiments according to their own conscience, would exert themselves to put an end to that system of intimidation and agitation which was kept up in Ireland. Agitation he said it was—for what was it but agitation to go about through every parish in Ireland, setting not only Ca tholics against Protestants, but Protestants against each other, and denouncing all the supporters of the national system of education as idolators, atheists, apo-tati s, in short, heaping upon them almost every term of abuse which the language supplied.—(Cheers.) Was it right, then, lie would ask, to reproach his Majesty's Ministers with consequences brought on by the very mis representations and calumnies with which they were as sailed? He hoped they would no longer attempt to bias the sentiments of the people by the use of violent language or insulting epithets lithe system was bad—speak of it as it was—and let it stand or fall upon its real merits. In conclusion, he would call the attention of their Lordships to this point. He did not deprecate any opposition which was made to this measure on his own account, or on that of his I rother Commissioners. It was for the sake of Ire land—(Hear)—for the sake of that unfortunate country —for whose welfare he was ready to undergo even more slander and obloquy than lie had yet been exposed to. For the sake of Ireland, he appealed to their Lordships to let this system have a fair, uninterrupted trial; and then let them come to a decision with calmness and Christian temper. For himself, he was ready to make every sacri fice, even that of life itself, to effect the moral regeneration of Ireland.—(Cheers.) The Bishop of EXETER complimented the Most Rev. Prelate on the very able speech which he had just made, and had no doubt that he had been actuated by the best and purest motives. That Most Rev. Prelate had said that there were three modes of treating the question of educa tion in Ireland : either to educate the Roman Catholics and Protestants together—to educate them separately—or to educate them not at all. The Right Rev. Prelate seemed to assume that the Irish were less educated than the people of this country—now the fact was the contrary ; nor did he say this without due grounds ; he had high testimony, that of the Archbishop of Cashel, given before the Commis sion on Irish Education in 1824. That Prelate sail, that even in Tipperary he found the people more educated than is England. He did not, however, mean to say they were better educated ; lint the fact was, there were more who could read and write in Ireland than in England. Ti. great question, however, was the best subject matter for (location. Their Lordships hsit been told that this sys tem had been condeinned before it hail been tried, and that a large majority of that House had last year decided thatit should receive a trial, and if they put an end to it in its pre sent state they would be stultifying themselves, or something to a similar effect. He did not know how far the voice of a previous majority was to bind them on the present occa sion ; but, if lie remembered rightly, the majority was for the motion then brought forward.—( Hear.) It was said that the system was condemned without being tried ; but he contended that no trial could ever prove its propriety or ffiracy, since it was not founded on the principles of truth and Protestantism. He said it was contrary to these principles, because Pro estant education was founded on this, that the children should have a knowledge of the Holy Bible.—(Heir, hear ) They were told that abun dant opportunities would be afforded of giving Scriptural instruction to the children in the intermissions of school hours; but he would ask with what recommendation -itch instrs ...slots could come to those children, who mild regard it as a deprivation of their I ours of re rieation snit sport? There was another fact con nested with this part hf the subject which hail not been take. into consideration ; the parishes in Ireland were eo large, except in the north, where the evils of this mode of education would be the least felt, that they tnigt t reasotiahly expect each parish would coot in several schools at some distance from each other, tendering it physically impossible fir the pastor to give the children anything like that systematic scriptural education which was all essen tial. With regard to the extracts from the sacred Scrip tures, the Most Rev. Prelate had complained of the state ments that extracts from the Scriptures would never be rnade but in a garbled form, or, at least, that none but such garbled extracts would be accepted by the Roman Catholics; and he added, that it had been made matter of accusation against the Roman Cutholics that they permitted their children to read even such extracts. He was quite sure that the Most Rev. Prelate would net willingly suffer any garbled extracts to be promulgated ; but the complaint made was, that the extracts selected did riot present a fair specimen of Scripture properly so called. Why did be - ay this? Not from want of charity, but from excess of charity. He perceived the Noble Earl (Grey) lift d up his eyes ..t this expression. He felt much obliged for the attention he was paying; and he would tell the Noble Earl that it arose from this much charity towards Roman C itholica that he believed them when they spoke upon their oaths. The Ro man Catholic Prelates had sworn that, consistently with their duty and the dictates of their conscience, they would not consent that any of their children should be present at the reading of any portion of Scripture taken from a ver sion not their own. That was the evidence they had given before a Commission of Inquiry. The Most Rev. Prolate had produced, with a tone of triumph, a volume of ex tray ts, which he said was not garbled. Now, the Roman Catholic said, that he would not permit an unauthorized version to be used in schools ; and yet he found they had given their consent to the reading of at least a very large portion of it. It was said that this was a specimen of their liberality. True, they were liberal ; so liberal, indeed, that they seemed to have forgotten what they had previously sworn to. He also found that they had been, particularly in relation to one passage—the only passage, indeed, of great importance us relating to the distinctive difference between the doctrines of the Church of England and the Church of Rome, and where the language of their own version was departed from—to take care that a note should he appended, explaining their peculiar view of the passage' He-then proceeded to call the attention of the House to the note, which he said clearly contained an allusion to the Virgin Mary. He then alluded to the well-known sen tence_." It shall crush thy head," &c. ; and the reference 111 the note to ipso, as the original, i. e., she (the woman) shall crush," &c., which was contended by the Roman Catholics to allud e to the Virgin Mary. And this was a volume of extracts to be read in Protestant schools. in a bock recommended to the perusal of the scholars by the Board of Education, it was held to be indifferent with re gard to redemption, whether the head of the serpent was to be crushed by the woman or Jesus Christ, or whether Jesus Christ did it fir himself ; so it was described in a book adopted by the Board.—(Hear.) The Archbishop of DUBLIN—Not so ; only tolerated for the present. The Bishop of EXETER was about to resume, but complained of some interruption or inattention from the Ministerial Bench. The Duke of RICHMOND rose to order, and com. plained rather warmly that the Right Rev. Prelate never ruse in that House without complaining of interruption or inattention from that Bench, though the greatest attention was uniformly paid him. The Bishop of EXETER said that the Most Rev. Prelate had denied any intention to deliver over the chil. dren in Ireland into the hands of the Catholic priesthood. He was not surprised at the view which he had taken of it, but referred to a letter and speech of its author, the Right Hon. the Chief Secretary fur Ireland, to show that the object of its author was political, and not religious ; and by restoring the influence of the Roman Catholic clergy, to secure a more peaceable and willing obedience on the part of the peasantry to the laws. Yes, the AB. niters sought to give additional powers to those who said 'hat they could not, without sin, have recourse to the Bible ; and therefore they certainly were liable to the im putation of joining with the Roman Catholic clergy to rake away the Bible from the Protestants of Irel (Oh, oh, cheers, arid counter cheers.) He scarcely knew how to understand that cheer ; but he could not consider such a design to t.e Consistent with Christi inity, whether 'hey acted ti;orr it or nor. It was rather remarkable, that in the returns laid upon the table the answer to a return moved for by the Noble Earl opposite, as to the numbers of Rama❑ Catholic and Protestant children attending the school, was to this effect—that tiny could not give the returns of their respective numbers, as their atten tion had been iiirected to the extensio❑ of educatisin, without distinction of class or sect ; thus taking away trim them the means of ascertaining whether the ex periment hail succeeded or not.—(Hear, hear.) He then ref, rred to the extracts of the Commandments, as pub lished under the sanction of the Board. In the second Commandment, the words "graven thing" for graven image —and the words " bow down to" were omitted— ati cloaking and hiding that idolatry which was the scandal of the Rornish C .urch. This was still worse, as it Was admitted by Mr. Ca; lisle that the word in the ori ginal was " bow down to." And what must be the eff ct of this sort of half sanction, accotnpaniid by the circuin stance that these children mus, be constantly in the habit itnissirig toe per:in-mance of those ceremonies so com mon among the R.irnan Catholics, riot so repugnant to the principles of all true Protestants. (The Right Rev. Prelate then proceeded to read several passages troin the Catechism of the Council of Trent, and fiom the works of writers who were esteemed high authorities on maters of Catholic faith and discipline, for the purpose of showing that which he believed would not be disputed, namely, that Roman Catholics were instructed to consider all who differed from them as heretics and schismatics, and incapable of becoming inheritors of the Kingdom of Christ.) From data such as these notning could be more evident than that it would be impossible to devise a system of ins ruction which should satisfy the wants and the wishes of a community composed, as that of Ireland was, of persons of diffeient and hostile creeds. If he might be permitted to call the attention of the House to the instructions which Roman Catholic children had received recently, and that which had been inculcated upon them formerly, he should show that until very lately they had been taught that they were bound to pay tithes, but now they were informed that they were merely bound to support their pastors. That was the language at present used ; but something very different was formerly the language used. One of their Catechisms contained thes,. lines : " Receive you about great Easter day, And to his Church neglect not tithes to pay." These sentiments were no longer urged upon the people as fir as the m atter of tithes was concerned ; all that now was required at their hands was to support their pastors and defray the expenses attendant upon the offices of reli gion, without prescribing to them the particular mode in which those expenses were to be met. Upon all these grounds he should not hesitate to say, that beforehand any one might be able to prophesy that it could ❑ot succeed; and, looking to the result, he should sty that that result would have fully warranted what ought naturally to have been anticipated. The scheme, unquestionabiy, had been a signal failure, and he believed there was no modification of it that could render it truly a scheme of national edu cation. The Archbishop of DUBLIN wished to explain. It was true some schools under the Commissioners bad been held in places of Roman Catholic worship, but that was expressly in opposition to their recent regulations—they did not allow any new schools to be held in any place of worship whatever, and where they found their grants had been applied to schools held in places of worship, they either withdrew those grants, or took measures for causing a building to be erected so as to prevent the continuance of the practice of holding schools in places of public wor ship. The number which came within the description he had been giving did not amount to more than four or five out of 500, and for all those separate buildings were now in progress. The Bishop of BRISTOL concurred generally in the view taken of the question by the Right Rev. Prelate near him (the Bishop of Exeter), and he especially assented to the important truth, that the scheme of education pursued by the Government in Ireland had proved a complete fai lure. It was said there was no intention of leaving out any particular point of the Protestant translation ; but many—indeed most of them—had been left nut altoge ther; and the only one not entirely otnitt,d had been al tered—he meant the word Shiloh, which had been alto gether changed. Lord PLUNKET was perfectly convinced of the since rity of the Right Rev. Prelate who had recently addressed them, and in answer to whose speech he should make a few remarks. The Right Rev. Prelate was, no doubt, impressed with the sane. tity of the object he had in view; but in adopting means to secure it, he should at the same time have taken care not to transgress the bounds of that charity which he expected from others. Before answering the Right Rev. Prelate, he must say a few words upon what had fallen from the Noble Earl, and in doing so, he assured the Noble Earl that he felt the most perfect respect for the Noble Earl's conduct and motives. The Noble Earl assumed throughout that which was necessary to be proved as the very foundation of his arguments. The Noble Earl bad appealed vehemently and successfully to large bodies of persons, many of whom were quite uneducated ; he had come down to that House with petitions from two hundred thousand persons. Now to those persons the language the Noble Earl had uniformly held was, that the course of education adopted by the Ministers would have the erect, and was intended for the purpose, of depriving the Protestants of the use of their Bible. No asser tion could be more unfounded ; and unfounded as it was when it was first uttered, not one attempt had been since made to prove that it was true. It was no part of this system to meddle with the system of exclusive Protestant education : it was not intended to interfere with the schools which the Protestants had already established for themselves, nor with the funds which they had appropriated for that purpose. All that was contended for was, that if there was to be a joint system of education, at the public expense, and for the public benefit, to be provided for the people of Ireland, there should not be an nexed to it a condition which would prevent the people from enjoying the advantages to be derived from that education. He was not surprised that any one of the two hundred thousand persons should say they would not give up their Bible. But he had a right to complain that the Noble Earl, after draw ing his own inferences, and often drawing them most should state them to the people as facts.—(Hear, hear.) What fact was there that authorized him, to make these statements ? The principle on which the Ministers acted was, that it was expedient there should be a system of public instruction ; that the unfortunate people of Ire. land were not to be left, as before, but were to have an opportunity of having rational, moral, and religious instruc tion. Any system of instruction which was nut founded on these principles was defective. So far they were all agreed. Again, they were further agreed that education, to be safely adapted to the people of that country, must be based not only on religion, but on revealed religion ; and, further, that it must not only be founded in morals and religion, but on scrip ture, as the authorized revelation of the will of the Supreme Being. Then the question to be solved was, whether they could found such a system of religious instruction for the Ca tholics and Protestants, based on the authority of the Scrip tures, as would be capable of being carried into execution. There was no Noble Lord but roust lament if that were imprac ticable. He had, therefore, listened with the most unfeigned regret to the statement of the Right Reverend Prelate, who seemed to consider that no possible system could be found ca. pable of attaining that end. The Noble Earl stood quite soli tary in the opinion that the people of Ireland were about to be robbed of their Bible. Extracts from it lie called mutilations, and said that no person with a proper regard for his religion could endure that these mutilations should take place. When this question was agitated last session, the Primate of Ire land—a mail in every way worthy of the highest respect— met it quite differently. He did not say that the plan practi. tally went to deprive the people of the Scriptures ; he did not speak of mutilating them, but he attacked the plan, be cause lie said it was founded upon a principle which the Church could never admit—namely, that the whole of the Bible was not made the foundation of education. If the Noble Earl was right, that was an abandonment of the Protestant principle--a lowering of the Protestant standard.—(Hear, from the llukc w of Cumberland.) B u t th a t was no t a re li g i ous , b u t politicala principle; for it amounte d t o thi s ; th a t it was i n _ consistent with the dignity o f th e P rotes t an t Ch urc h th a t any _ thing should be admitted, or any money applied for the pur poses of education, except on a system to which only the mem. bers of that Church could give their assent, or, in other words, that the great body of the people of that country should not receive public education at all. All these arguments resolved themselves into this—that. this was a re-agitation of the Ca tholic question, and amounted to saying that the Catholic measure never should have been passed. Not an argument on that side but went the length of saying that the Catholic was a religion which ought not to be tolerated. The Right Rev. Prelate, who had recently spoken, took up a ground at variance with that adopted by the Noble Earl; for he did not object to selections from the Scriptures, nor call them mutilations. He was too learned to make that complaint, nor indeed had ever done so ; for in the former debate he said he did not object to the selection of passages; but that he had nu confidence that they would not be garbled. Even that, however, was a gratuitous assump tion, for nothing was then done. The Right Rev. Prelate had not exhibited an excess of charity tonight in the observations he had made respecting the Most Rev. Prelate, whose speech had been so satisfactory, able, and eloquent, and whom he called a lover of truth, but to whom certainly he had not done a su perabundance of justice. The Noble and Learned Lord here quoted something as from the speech of the Right Rev. Pre late ; but even its purport was inaudible in the gallery, as were also the observations of Lord Kenyon, who rose to order. Lord PLUNKET continued. What the Noble Lord said might show that it was not delicate for him to persevere in his observations, but by no means proved that he was out of order. He should not have thought it necessary to refer to what had before fallen from the Right Rev. Prelate, if it had not been rendered so by what he had said to-night—he had said that he had been perfectly convinced that no fair extracts from the Scriptures would be made from a Board constituted as that in Dublin was. Why, there was Dr. Sadler, of Trinity College ; there was Mr. Holmes, a barrister, both of whom were men of the highest respectability; and then there was the Archbishop of Dublin, and not one of these was likely to sacrifice Pro testantism. Well, then, here were the extracts—the Right Reverend Prelate found fault with passages in them. In. stead of the words, any "graven image," the extracts used the words "graven thing." That was mentioned as a fault. In his opinion the latter was a more effective prohibition of ido latry than the former, for the word " thing," included image, but he believed that the Right Rev. Prelate admitted that the word " thing " was more correct.— (The Bishop of ExETErt— That the word would bear that construction in the Greek ver sion.) But if it would bear that construction in the Hebrew, as he believed it would, then it was nearer accuracy than the translation from the Greek The next point on which they were called on not to give education to the people of Ireland, was the question about the word "he " or " she," in the passage about bruising the serpent's head. He had seen the word "it " used.—(The Bishop of Bristol was understood to say that the word was "he " in the original, but that it was "it " in our version.) It seemed, then, that both differed from the original. The note said, that in the original Hebrew the word was " it ;" but it was surely hardly material whether the word " it " or "he " was used to denote the seed, for both agreed that by the seed of the woman was the serpent to be crushed. If the rescuing of millions of men from vice—if the prospect of restoring tranquillity to Ireland were to be blighted by such criticisms as these—then, indeed, must the Government stop in their proposed career of improvement. The Noble Earl and the Right Rev. Prelate no doubt thought them most important, but for the life of him he could not see that they were so. Another objection was about the words " thou shalt not bow down." " Bow down" did not necessarily mean to worship, and he believed it was customary for the Canon of Christchurch, Oxford, to bow to the altar as he quitted it, so that that cere mony was not confined to the Catholic Church, nor did it necessarily show idolatry. Then there was a charge that the Government had made a league with the Roman Catholics to upset the Protestant hierarchy, and the Right Reverend Pre late said that the Right Hon. Secretary stood by the priests in their rejection of the Bible. The Bishop of EXETER begged to say that he had used his own word. Lord PLUNKET—Yes, that might be, but not without note and comment. Could anybody believe that the charge made by the Noble Earl opposite, with respect to this plan, was, that it would overturn the present established religion ? Could anybody in his senses believe such a charge, and was it not cal culated to keep up the jealousy that unhappily existed between the parties of each religion ? The Noble Lord who last spoke said that the present measure was not such a very bad one, and that he objected to it because a society already existed sufficient for all purposes, from which the powers it had should not be taken. The question was, which system was the best ? The Government system of education did not allow two ver. sions of the Scriptures to be used in their schools, whilst the Kildare street Society permitted either version to be used. Yes, they who pocketed the public money allowed a Popish version of the Bible to be used, and their masters inter preted and commented on it after their own way. Could this be endured by the 200,000 Protestants who had risen and peti tioned against the Government plan ? It had also been argued, that the proportion of Protestant children in the schools was not satisfactory. It was no wonder that that should be the case—that the number should be so small, when such unwor thy means should be resorted to to keep it so. The Noble and Learned Lord then alluded to threats that had been made to the Mendicity Society, if they sent children to those schools. If they did so, certain persons threatened to withdraw their aid from that Society. Was that justice —was that anything like a Christian way of proceeding? No greater service could be done, than to endeavour to do away with the jealousy that existed between both persuasions. But the way to do that was, not by continually spreading abroad that the Catholic religion contained within itself principles deadly to the state. The keeping up of this unextinguishable sectarian hostility, would not tend to protect that Established Church for which he was most anxious. It was terrible to think that a large portion of the Irish people, thirsting for education, should be told that they could only obtain it through the medium of the Kildare street Society. He would conclude by stating it as his convic tion, that the great difficulties in the way of reconciliation and good feeling between both parties arose from obstinacy, and from not making timely concessions. If it were wished to protect and uphold the Protestant Church, the most effectual way of doing so would be to make that seasonable concession which the state of society required at their hand, and not spoil that which had been already done with such favourable promise of a happy result. _ . The Earl of WICKLOW begged to ask if anybody with true Protestant feelings could consider the present system one calculated for the promotion of an united plan of education ? He considered it a great national calamity if Protestant chil dren in any numbers should attend these schools ; for, though they might enter them professed Protestants, they would come out of them professed Catholics. He claimed the indulgence of their Lordships for reading, at that late hour of the night, an extract from a learned writer of the Church of England, in contrasting the practices of the Pagan priesthood with those of the Catholic priesthood. The extract went to show that the Pagan priesthood had chosen but a few books on divine sub jects, and that they kept them closed to the inspection of the people ; whilst, on the contrary, the Protestant priesthood, instead of keeping their flocks in darkness, urged them to search the Scriptures, and become enlightened. The hook then points out how closely allied the Pagan and Catholic priest hood were ; for the latter, like the former, in order to continue their dominion founded in error, hid that "candle under a bushel" which was meant to enlighten the nations. He was the more surprised at this passage, when he found that its author was a supporter of the present system of education; but per. haps he thought himself politically bound to do so, and that the high situation to which he was promoted obliged him to undertake the defence of a system, the evil tendency of which he did not fully conceive. Having made these remarks, he would say, with reference to what fell from the Noble and Learned Lord who had last spoken, that it was nothing more than an attempt to answer several speeches that had already been made last session. The only difference in the way the Noble and Learned Lord answered those speeches then and now was, that last session he came with numerous returns of the number of children admitted into the schools he defended, and that he then contended it far exceeded what the Kildare jeet Society could accomplish. But to-night there was no statement—no return—not a word about the increase of those schools, though he had expected it. He did not expect that there would have been an increase of Protestant children, but that there would be of those of the Roman Catholic persua sion. However, that was not the line of argument pursued by the Noble and Learned Lord on the present occasion. The Noble Earl then contended, that the alteration in any way of the Scriptures involved the most important conse quences. He objected, as he had done last session, to the intro duction of the Government system of education, as it would tend to subvert the plans of that society, which was better suited than any other for an united system of education. He thought it unwise to subvert the system of that Society, which was not only working well, but which had not been disapproved of by many of the Catholic clergy themselves. The blow that society had received from the present Government, it would be very difficult to recover from, though its management was placed in very able hands—in the hands of those most likely to do good to the Catholics. He hoped that Government would explain this united system to Parliament, and that for the fu ture, they would apply for a grant for Catholic education. They might apply a portion of that grant to the education of Pro. testants, or of the Dissenters of the north, but keep the chief portion for the Catholics. He should be glad to see this grant made, as he was pretty sure the Kildare-street Society could not be revived, and as he wished that children should be edu cated in their own schools. The Protestants—for they were generally rich—had their own schools; it was not so with the Catholics, who were poor, and who, consequently, had no means of being educated unless they took education on terms they did not choose to accept. The Earl of GOSFORD was not surprised that Protestant children were kept away from the present schools, when such reports, prejudicial to those schools, were industriously spread throughout Ireland. He had met with several Protestant clergymen of the North, who had the strongest objections to those schools; but when he questioned them, he found that their ob. jections were not founded either on evidence or observation, but that they proceeded from mere hearsay. The system, wherever he saw it tried, had most completely succeeded. He begged to mention the testimony of a Rev. Gentleman—the Rev. John Staples, of Moville—who, as soon as he had described the new system, .saw his school filled with scholars of all per suasions Lord CLONCURRY said, that the Roman Catholics were much more in want of education than the Protestants. He thought that the funds of the Kildare street School should be set aside for the education of Catholics exclusively; and he thought that their Lordships would not consider 25,0001. or 30,0001. too much for the education of all the Catholics in Ire land. The funds for the education of Protestants were large and ample, and could be increased if necessary ; but those for the education of Catholics were both precarious and small. He thought that the state of Ireland was attributable in a great measure to the priests. They were not so well educated as they formerly were, and were given to low society and low habits, so that they lost that influence which might enable them to prevent disturbances. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE would only detain the House for one minute while he should endeavour to satisfy the House with regard to those schools. The Right Rev. Prelate was right in stating that these schools were only on trial, for there had not been sufficient time yet to judge of their full effects. There were already, however, in course of education in con nection with those schools, 86,440 children ; and as soon as the grants now tinder consideration were decided on, he had no doubt that the number would be increased to 1211,000. He would mention the case of a school in which he himself was interested, to show how difficult it was to establish schools un. connected with this society. He founded a school in a very re mote district, with every desire to give the advantages of it to persons of all religions. That school had the protection of the Kildare-street Society, the support of the landlord, and many other circumstances in favour of its success ; nevertheless, from the prejudice felt to it, he found, after the experience of twelve years, that it did not succeed. He found that one-third the number of scholars did not enter which the school could contain, and he was at last obliged to discontinue it. That school was afterwards added to the society, and he was shortly afterwards asked if he would be willing to increase the size of the schoolhouse, as the school, which was formerly too small for the building, had become too large for it. And he believed that the same was the general case in the south of Ireland. The question was not whether the children should be educated in Catholic or Protestant principles, but the real fact was, that an immense population must be educated in Catholic principles or not at all. He thought that the Right Rev. Prelate paid a bad compliment to the Protestant religion, when he said that the Protestant children, from being educated for four days in the week with the Catholic children, might have their principles shaken, especially as there were two days set apart for educat ing them in their own principles. He would only add, that both from the feelings of humanity, and from political expe diency, it was proper in the Government to make proper provi sion for the education of the Catholics. He would have re ferred their Lordships to some of the evidence laid before the House on that subject, were the hour not so late; he would then only refer them to the evidence of Sir Francis Blosse, who said that the most common education had a powerful effect in preventing disturbances. In conclusion, he prayed them to look to this question, as one intended to overcome the dif ficulty of providing education for four-fifths of the people of Ireland. The Earl of RODEN said a few words in reply, after which the petition was laid on the table, and the House adjourned at Twelve o'clock. FROM LAST NIGHT'S GAZETTE. ST. JAMES'S PALACE, MARCU 15, 1S:13. This day the Baron de Zuylen de Nyevelt, Minister on a spe cial mission from the King of the Netherlands, had an audience of his Majesty to deliver his letter of recall. To which he was introduced by Lord Viscount P haerston, his Majesty's Principal Secretary of State for Foreign Affitirs, and conducted by the Master of the Ceremonies. WHITEHALL, MARCH S. The Lord Chancellor has appointed Edgar Maker, of Lewes, in the county of Sussex, Gent., to be a Master Extraordinary in the High Court of Chancery. OFFICE OF ORDNANCE, MARCH 15. Royal Regiment of Artillery—First Lieut. B. L. Poynter to be Second Captain, vice Talbot, deceased; Second Lieut. H. Roth= to be First Lieutenant, vice Poynter, Feb. 3. Corps of Royal Engineers—Gentleman Cadet J. G. 31'Kerlic to be Second Lieutcnant, with temporary rank, Feb. M. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Cardigan. The Right Hon. the Earl of Lisburne to be Deputy Lieute nant, Dec. 4, F 32; G. W. Parry, Esq., to be ditto, March, 1833; M D. Williams, Esq., to he ditto, March, 1833; J. Hughes, Esq , to be ditto, March, 1833; C. R. Longcroft, Esq., to be ditto, March, 1833. Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of the East Riding of the County of York, and Town and County of the Town of King ston-upon-Hull. J. Wood, Esq., to be Deputy Lieutenant, March 15. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Northum- berland. The Right Hon. C. Bennett, Conly called Lord Ossulston ; B. Burrell, Esq. ; and F. J. W. Collingwood, to be Deputy Lieu tenants, March 8. . _ _ Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the county of Salop. Sir F. It. Acton, Bart., to be Deputy Lieutenant, Aug. 11. North Shropshire Yeomanry Cavalry. G. Stanton, Gent., to be Cornet, vice Shirley, promoted, March 12. Commission by the Lord.Lieuvenant of the County o , Derby. Repton and Gresley Troop (3; Derbyshire Yeomanry Cavalry. C. H. Crewe, Gent., to be Lieutenant, vice J. Beaumont, re signed, Dec. 1, 1832. BANKRUPTS. DAVID INNES NOAD, agent, t opthall.court, City, to sur render April 4, at twelve, and 30, at half-past one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Lochlee, Union-court, Old Broad-street. ABRAHAM ISAACS, rag-merchant, Petticoat-lane, Spital fields, April I, at one, and 30, at two, at the Court of Bank. ruptcy. Mark, Calthorp_street, Gray's Inn-road JOSHUA JOWETT, furnishing ironmonger, Great Queen street, Lincoln's Inn-fields, March 26, and April 30, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Duncombe, Lyon's Inn. ROBERT FIDDES, tavern-keeper, Hackney, March 26, at eleven, and April 30, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Parnell, Church-street, Spitalfields. JONATHAN IKIN, merchant, Leeds, March 27, at two, and April 30, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Scott, St. Mildred's.court, Poultry, London ; Atkinson and Co., Leeds. ALEXANDER NICOLL, tailor, Conduit-street, Bond-street, March 26, at twelve, and April 30, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy. billing, King-street, Cheapside. WILLIAM DAWSON, grocer, Yeadon, Yorkshire, March 27, and April 30, at eleven, at the Talbot Inn, Bradford, York shire. Battye, Fisher, and Sudlow, Chancery-lane, London; Adams, Bradford. GEORGE SCHONSWAR, and HENRY SCHONSWAR, merchants, Sculcoates, Yorkshire, April 16, and 30, at one, at the Kingston Hotel, Scale-lane, Kingston-upon-Hull. Rosser and Son, Gray's Inn.pl ce, London; Frost, Hull. JOHN HUDS ON, plumber, Ilaslingden ' Lancashire, April 15, and 30, at twelve, at the Commercial Inn, Haslingden. Milne, Parry, Milne, and Morris, Inner Temple, London ; Mit chei I, Haslingden. WILLIAM BADGER, grocer, Merthyr Tydvil, April 8, and 30, at twelve, at the Union Inn, Birmingham. Holme, Framp ton, and Loftus, Ne w Inn, London ; Bartleet, Birmingham. JOHN HALL, builder, Barton-upon-Humber, Lincolnshire, March 27, and April 30, at eleven, at the Red Lion Inn, Barton upon. Humber. Dyneley, Coverdale, and Lee, Gray's Inn, Lon don ; Goy, Barton-upon-Humber. CHARLES HA WKSWORTH, victualler, Liverpool, April 11, and 30, at twelve, at the office of Mr. J. Atkinson, Liverpool. Atkinson, Bank-buildings, Liverpool; Adlington, Gregory, and Faulkner, Bedford-row, London. ........ DIVIDENDS. T. Davison and P. Nouaille, silkmen, Star-court, Bread-street, Cheapside, April 15, at half-past eleven, at the Court of Bank. ruptcy—T. Merrick, merchant, Frith-street, Soho, April 11, at two, at the Court of Bankruptcy—J. While, artificial-florist. warehouseman, Maddox-street, Hanover-square, April 11, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy—G. 'Popham, victualler, :New-road, St. Marylebone, April 11, at half-past twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy—J. t-cobell, carpenter, Princes-street, Stamford-street, Blacktriars-road, April 11, at half-past e'even, at the Court of Bankruptcy—J. Collins, grocer, Pulborough, Sussex, April 11, at eleven, at the Court of Bankruptcy—W. Evans, draper, Carmarthen, April 11, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy—J. Goiter, victualler, High Holborn, April 11, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy—J. George, timber-mer chant, Hereford, April 15, at eleven, at the Mitre Inn, Hereford —J. Grey, merchant, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, April 10, at eleven, at the George Inn, Newcastle-upon-Tyne—W. Sheldon, miller, Leicester, April 13, at ten, at the Stag and Pheasant Inn, Lci_ cester—W. Johnston, draper, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, April 18, at eleven, at the George Inn, Newcastle-upon-Tyne—S. Wilson, grocer, Chich St. Osyth, Essex, April 11, at eleven, at th e George Inn, Colchester—E. Elwell, ironfounder, Westblomwich, Staffordshire, April 10, at eleven, at Dee's Hotel, Birmingham— A. W. Sorgenfrey, merchant, Liverpool, April 10, at one, at the office of Mr. J. Lowe, Liverpool—T. Lloyd, timber-merchant, (trove, Wistanstow, Shropshire, April 17, at eleven, at the Angel Inn, Ludlow, Shropshire—J. Mullowny, merchant, Bristol, Apia 10, at one, at the Bush Tavern, Ilristol—J. White, inn keeper, Marlborough, Wiltshire, April 9, at twelve, at the Castle Inn, Marlborough — %V. Ingelow, sen., and NV. ngelow, jun., bankers, Boston, Lincolnshire, April 19, at ten, at the Pea cock Inn, Boston, c . . APRIL 9. G. Worth, licensed victualler, Clerken;eligreeii—E. Ingle, builder, West Bromwich, Stattbrdshire—A Townley, bookseller, Stockport, Cheshire-13. Shaw, hat-manufacturer, Rochdale, Lancashire—lt. Ellis, mercer, Cirencester, Gloucestershire—l3. D. Wyatt, timber merchant, Augustus-street, Cumberland-quay, Regent's Canal Basin, Regent's Park—R. Broster, grocer, Stockport, Cheshire—S. Samson, broker, Stock Exchange, Capel-court, Bartholomew-lane—T. lilogbrough, Keightley, Yorkshire—T. Jones, druggist, Kidderminster, Wor cestershire. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. W. Littler, sen., and Co., silk printers, Waltham Abbey, Essex —G. Newill and W. Whittaker, cabinet-makers, Rochdale, Lan cashire—W. Williamson and CO. fire-brick manufacturers, Ew. loe, Flintshire—B. F. Allen and J. Davidson, corn-dealers, Preston, Lancashire—W. Okell and E. Okell, flour-dealers, Li verpool—W. Key and T. Key, wholesale cheesemongers, Lo i don-wall—M. Lock and H. Baxter, wine merchants, Rochester, Kent— W. Brookes and J. Garrett, coach-builders, Bengeworth, Evesham, Worcestershire—A. Walters and J. C.irayston, mil liners, Maddox-street, Hanover-square—J. Carr and E. Carr, mmulacturing chymists, Brighouse, Halifax, Yorkshire—J. Watton and W. Porter, surgeons, Upper Bedford-place, Rue. sell-square—J. Day and J. Randolph, jun., attorneys, Welling ton, Somersetshire—S. Townsend and T. Lawson, stuff:mer chants, Bradford, Yorkshire—G. Watkins, sen., and Co., coal merchants, Paradise Wharf, Chelsea—E. Welpdale and G Mar ris, shoemakers, Keelby, Lincolnshire—J. R. Fletcher and Co., grocers, Grantham, Lincolnshire—J. Brown and M. Milnes, carpenters, Long Bridge, Huddersfield, Yorkshire—J. Brown and J. E. Norman, coal-merchants, Weymouth and Melcomb Regis, Dorsetshire—M. Hargreaves and J. Ambler, worsted spinners, Otley, Yorkshire—J. Greaves and Co., tallow-chandlers, Penistone, Yorkshire—M. Booth and Co., coal-merchants, Old ham, Lancashire—J. Nash and C. Nash, chymists, Great Mary lebone-s treet. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. (THIS DAY.) FROM LLOYD'S. DEAL, MARCH 19.—Wind N.E., strong breeze, with squalls.—Arrived from the river and sailed the West Indian, Simpson, for Jamaica; Mercy, , for Barbadoes ; Daniel, , for the South Seas ; Ann, Tindall, for Africa ; and the St. George, , for Oporto. Arrived the combined squadron from a cruize ofFthe coast of Holland. The following vessels remain :—The British, Donegal, Talavera, and Malabar (of the line) ; Stag frigate ; Larne, and Scout, corvettes; four French frigates and one brig. His Majesty's steam ships the Dee and Salamander, from Plymouth, passed for Sheerness. PORTSMOUTH, MAiicit 19.—Wind N.N.E. FALMOUTH, M ARC H 18.—Wind N.E. to E.N E, m o . derate breezes. HULL, MARCH la—Arrived the Fenwick, Ityle, from Shields, assisted in, with loss of foremast, bound to Barbadoes. LIVERPOOL, MARC'! 18.—A schooner, full of water, masts standing, and boxes of oranges floating around, wa , seen off Holyhead on the 15th inst. 11 MARCH 1 9.-- 18 1:ne T_ Stangate Creek. Waterloo, he Fnigh bound ,edei, t: iy Newrh Myhre, YO UGHALL, MARCH 16.—The Edward, f rom D ungarvon to S o uthampton, has discharged the cargo. All th e w h ea t i s damag ed and part of the oats. s ou th Wales, has been order e d t o SHEERNESS, SUNDERLAND, M AR from Dram, has been lightened and got oft; with considerable damage to her bottom. COURT OF CHANCERY. -(THIS 00) lii RE WRIGHT A LUNATIC. ~ e „ . , c e, re. Mr. TEA D applied for an order to confirm tl os s 2. ° foe port, appointing Mr. Gude, (the Coroner) and th e . 4 , G ot lunatic, the Committees of the lunatic's Person, and Mr ' Ghat the Committee and receiver of the estate. It c lunatic, upon opposition to Captain Wright, a relation of thee the ch itie' the Master had approved of Mr. Gude, who the hypothesis that Mr. Gude intended to dischatrc ;Ito re eetre gratuitously, but it now appeared that be exPec a fair remuneration for his trouble. . r....mso nceti The LORI) CHANCELLOR, under such CI c" the rep ort did not feel at liberty to make an order, contirrningre _ rt up oil but referred it back to the Master to review hi. should re. the propositions now made by Mr. Gude, that blasterbe 0,310 ceive a remuneration for his services. Th e directed to inquire whether it would be proper to carry wine trade, or to wind ' it up. SUEING IN PERSON'. ,_. ce e ve Mr. CHARLES PITT, who has been in attelleo_ar__„eging day for a considerable period, took the opportunity ot l e f tl r " osi o i permission of his Lordship to have a motion of app ea ~ be fore order made by his Honour, the Vice-Chancellor, h:a.rati notic e ' a motion should be heard before his Honour, of ' ol ' dm i n ii• had been given for to-morrow, to have his bill, as 33 a trator, him, stated at The LORD CHANCELLOR, interrupting „versa; the King's subjects undoubtedly had a right to appe ar ' e ` f ate 4 i if no Counsel, in the King's Courts ; but if they Pr. ~.o ip to appear in person, they ought fully to understand th_at i t- ,ce of rr e ere notss u sel, and particularly the King's Counsel, had the i being heard in the first instance. If this were not r t , ed s e ase extreme inconvenience ; it was, therefore, would come into Court by Counsel, when they W 3 i d lead t° W3itelldered iii to be heard early, and such a course of proceeding WO _ I for Mr. Pitt, especially as this was ' not the seal, to Inu ve ° occasion, i ht o f the Mr. PITT was prepared to contend that the r-g one King's subjects to appear in person, and be heard in the rte d • a s suPP ° r Courts was , paramount to all other rights, and lie 0 h. tv, to is this argument by the authority of Jeremy Bent t o whose whose authority his Lordship once entertained great de greater • ed r The LORD CHANCELLOR—I never entertai n nterto deference for that authority than Ido now. I ' W r iter ° great deference for it, though I do not agree with the W' all subjects. kettle tit : Mr. PITT said, that unless his motion was beard . in s bill motion could be heard in the Vice-Chancellor 's Court , lss or would be dismissed, and it would then be utterl,,re 0 0 4 him to come into this Court. He could not see on what ;: lot Ii it was that persons sueing in person were considered ins'otiii any others. There was a Court to which both hirnselfotitir' Lordship would hereafter have and 'he re° to appeal, v. tion of persons whatever would be recognised. flous e The LORD CII.kNCELLOR—You mean the Lords ? •tio g St'C Mr. PITT—No, my Lord, I mean to the Judge '',l.fficalti both yourself and ins existence • but it is with gr eat -1 , such impartiality can be had here. ' . 11 g eeir" The LORD CHANCELLOR—I am sure Y" Wt. justice before the Vice-Chancellor. t t he not coMpee: oil tice , e Mr. PITT—I am sure that I have not received:Ms-4 li3v hands of the Vice-Chancellor, otherwise I should 0 " v rct• had to appear befere your Lordship. I bowed to r u f in st rs e v,y'eaunrt Lordship'st he whole ship's suggestion to go there. His Honour decided aPtcoor• and justice ; and if you suffer my bill to be disroissediolUe• doefesinsyiecnase may to be e e u h p e e a ti rd tt „ , row, you will thereby inflict an act of imprisonruent tj ,, o ' a oe , I would rather have a sentence of death pronounced u h r e , ' by seine judges, than a sentence of imprisonment bY°t7.jart'eser The LORD CHANCELLOR—You . CELLOR—You will new.. nl, sentence of death nor of imprisonment pronounced ali°llctie! by me ; but it is • • impossible for me to deviate from th e P t r o be P of the Court in delaying the regular business before us you; therefore let the next case be called on. • Mr..6it then left the Court. r , EN T, NIELANCHOLY AND FATAL AC -11) l a . will t tri.ec.adn::lY.::::7! (From the Edinburgh Evening Gourd" t ' ) doc riptili An accident of a most appalling and melancbelY ge ctio n 4 took place on Saturday at the sale of the splendid enicolsh'4, paintings belonging to the late Lord Eldin, at his a in u r ,,, house in Picardy place, which, we lament to state; ° ta t instance attended with fatal consequences. T he t heSl o - 0 1 menced at one o'clock in the back dray.ing-roorn, °at; flat, and a company of about 150 had assembled, a ni- ro eed . *:, were from twelve to fourteen ladies. The sale Was faieg with greater spirit than on either of the two Pre' atioo"ci: when about half-past two, as Mr. Winstanley , the ' for was exhibiting a Teniers, No. 152 in the catalogneirapetitl; sixty-one guineas had been offered, and a keen ° co , of going on, in an instant the greater part of the fi flat up room gave way, and precipitated the companY into th e no t " p i Such was the suddenness of the catastrophe, tha t . 0 0s; warning was given by the cracking of the u pholding •rig er, " 01 , the first intimation the company received of their el'iet, ed their consciousness of having commenced a descent" di splay withstanding this, the coolness and collection of rntnd eg noi se by the sufferers are beyond all praise. Not '", - ,ebe i . 0 1 scream was heard in the descent; and when th e Y floor below, the only sounds were the h a lf-suppres sect . e pee , „it some unhappy sufferer ; and '`steady, steady, P 3tl w ho " t he tered in a firm tone by some who feared that th es f,ht, i n ot so fortunate as to be unentangled by the rubbish, t e '",..e. confusion and their hurry to escape, make matters W e- ~l a '. O door of the room in which was this chaos of confasionth;o taring, was locked, but speedily broken open; a nd , ;u g happened to be nearest quickly succeeded in extrie a h oe' b e selves from the rubbish that surrounded them. nu t h t , sce te e stituted a small minority compared with those sc ';', - , c s O r o, bruised and maimed, that they could afford thenisecos,ratt sistance, some of whom were so bruised amid h ea- tt bel and the furniture of the floor that fell with them, t i T unable to extricate themselves without externa l The first intimation which the people in the st ree d oor ' p j n j was one or two gentlemen rushing out at the front, 6 t urln a , blood on their faces and covered with dust, and la dle to th „te in a very flurried state to the dravving-room window', ioadisr,io who observed them it was conjectured that some seriery,for,„`„ had taken place. This supposition was only niontent:winde,,it clouds of dust which now burst from the door on- er made it appear as If the house was on fire. A nn tn ,?:, - ,so i neri hurried to the spot, and learning the catastrophe, P`Deotre're, diately to break open the door of the room in whi ch ti : d efa li dle , lay. This was speedily effected, and many were e *".. - e irelt i ts moved into the front rooms, all more or less bruised, t" el " re , in many instances torn to tatters, and they were so e ..d es' 0° th e dust that their features could scarcely be recogn i '; , sti ng g 4.; moving a chest of drawers which was used for easel on which the pictures were exhibited, Alex. till , ;„"t p ot banker, partner in the house of Messrs. Kinnears, ''""'theoostaii Co , was found lying below it. He was conveye d hjt ,, c o n t Ott room, when it was observed he had received a se ver , - t,g P re :t either hil death on the forehead, and several medical gentlemen et , ' they attempted to bleed him, but life was eX ti d n- tha t o id supposed he had gone down among the first, a il oe cO i ' ) et was caused e b a l u ow sed fro h rn y the corner concussion ()off the e e bran' e att h to ner ny from the end of one of the beams. No other person reCteoeill is fatal injury, but we learn, that the following g en : baPi 7 h Y t if sides eight or ten more, were bruised, though, w e 3- a e ._ s*, O f state, they are all doing well, viz., Lord Moncrerih,ill'ee: Mr. Sivewright of Meggetland, slightly; {art the x p to Marjoribanks, slightly ; Dr. Maclagan, injury in r e D%ll' George Thomson, Esq., Trustees' Office, very ,eve J. f• .; the chest ; W. S. Watson, Esq., severely injured if,54., hams, Esq., three of his ribs broke; James Lang' 01) , d r. severe y hurt; Mr. Ross, son of Mr. Ross, Illv et . at er, ' - ou v one leg fractured, and ancle dislocated ; 1 -1 CO t o ie, chant, Elm Row, severely injured; Mr. Ste s ,, ar ) ir, V i ,lo house : Mr. Wright, auctioneer, much hurt ; an" hur t ' severely bruised. Mrs. Keay of Snaigow, slightlY „„ e reli o f Mrs. John Anderson, junior, South Bridge, a`" t c rPe We understand, that, had it not been that th e 3 ,, I ~es 7, room broke the fall, a number of lives would ha ve -e i:r ' fleL f te The cause of the accident was the breaking of a n d sOlir t irS 4 which extended across the centre of the room,a ra ttle tl' the flooring. It appears to have been insufficient fr° e :f r int e a and the joiner was evidently aware of its weaknesht.woe'tpe( ing to strengthen it, he had joined to it a Piec still fo t ill means of an iron bolt and screw, but this served % o t o' ef ef to weaken it, for the bolt passed through a large a , Wh e s n n s wood, and thus the beam was liable to gi ve there was any great weight on the floor. , 0 10' doubt, will be instituted to investigate into the ea uAn - t h t oll About eight or ten feet of the floor near the n f d r iug el % did not go down, and several persons who were sta" act iole e 6 .? part of the room escaped. Mr. Winstanley, the, a bold Ci e O P the first symptom of the floor giving way , la~be ' 4l' g t' mantle piece, but lost his grasp, and fell among also cion ferers. His clerk was more fortunate ; he ha d 3 ..0 by ' l o o‘ the mantle-piece, and retained his hold till retie is at pr pti d der. The picture which was in the course of s l e,bish : „e amissing, but the frame was found among the rens'oo.l.,i,tt to pieces. All the other pictures fortenately w ine', from having been in another room. The room the company fell was the library, in which were which 00' 4 1 (the books having been previously sold), and _ o w o f china, coins, bronzes, and other articles of vertu,: veto( are injured, but to what extent, is not Yet k n° os n ipon eti li tinuation of the sale of the pictures has been 1 ), del Jr few days, and we hear that upwards of tvventy o oL I : e dis pos; t i, valuable paintings in the collection remain yettott the Fs' flu Information of the accident was brought ssing °n od , by F. Grant, Esq., of Kilgraston, who W as P.! ..pie 0° ,0 ,° ,; back, and who instantly set off at full speed to a dings spread Cd the superintendent. The melancholy ti , e s p 10 , through the city, and a great number of Pen_P c l titio net' t , o lected. The most eminent of our mediealP r !,,,t i . aid 0 01 , praiseworthy zeal, haAened to the spot to lend a_a 7 ststan e .. : o6 i unfortunate sufferers, and rendered great assists t v pr 4 wounded. Among those whom we eillespie, 61°vet Abercrombie, Alison, Ross, Thatcher, Gi also pr es'" S 4 e C 4 and Hay. Several of the Magistrates we d re Ritchie, 01004 , whom were Bailies Child, Patterson , "observed the 'raft. A gentleman on horseback, "' ho t h a t the h en ;cc alv tid dust issuing from the windows, imagined to th e P ° ' l te' c fire, and rode up and gave this informationout, and had The engines were in a very short time got . 0 0 or ice of the accident. n the house before they got not afternoon, bet" of In removing the rubbish, in that'dafterno nuv,bot. also a 40 gentlemen's hats were found, brcllas, walking sticks, and shoes. It _ AND klY VRDO Yu 1 BUN 07FICS, 111, STRAND, LORDO4 HE ENn -LA] (111,,r hereby I '4 i CANTON, i • nCd '9tirt :1 )111-1111 ( :is T dnd t 1 t't())