The Sun. — London, England, 1863-02-06 00:00:00

America of rival states and of cabinets—of frequent turbu- ter, would be in an efficient and complete state. The colo lence, and probably of frequent war. (Hear.) With these nial expenditure, we are sometimes told, was greater than views I have myself, during the last session, exerted what- that now, but in the days of the Duke of Wellington we had ever little influence I might possess in endeavouring to dis- not the empire we now possess ; we have some colonies now suede my f r iends from embarrassing her Majesty's Govern- we did not possess then, and the colonial expenditure was, cli en t i n th e p os ition of politic and dignified reserve which I believe, greater than now, for those consid e rable ch anges they appeared to mo to have taken upon this question. in the government of the colonies which hid led to the re (Cheers.) It appeared to me, looking at these transactions duction of the expenditure had not occurred. Therefore he across the Atlantic as events not of a mere casual character, had a great army and navy to maintain our establishments but such as might probably influence those countries as the abroad and our colonies. But yet he was a frugal Minister, great French revolution had influenced and was still in- because he did not follow a diplomacy of intrigue—(hear, fluencing Europe—it did appear to me that there was on hear)—tecause his policy was a truly conservative policy— our part due to the existing authorities in America a large a policy, not of sensation and surprise, which suits, no measure of deference in the difficulties which they had to doubt, continental nations, where public opinion only takes encounter. (Hear, hear.) At the same time it was natural in the consideration of external affairs ; but a policy of in to feel—and Ido not wish to disguise it—that they should trigue and a diplomacy of sensation and surprise are not entertain a great respect for those Southern States who, re- necessary for a country like England, where liberty and in presenting vast populations of Americans, were struggling dustry occupy the energies and minds of the people, and for the great object of existence—independence and power. where we are blessed with a government rooted, deeply But it did appear to me that the course which her Majesty's rooted, in the affections of the country and supported by the Ministers had apparently reso. ved on supporting was one traditions of centuries, But until they have arrived at the which, on the whole, was honourable to this country, and P would, on the whole, pro ve b ene fi c i a l t o a ll c l asses of the I oint clearly to understand the inevitable connection of a restless policy with a large expenditure 1 shall be very seep community. (Hear, hear.) I was therefore, sir, surprised, l tical as to the permanent character of any reduction. But and individually somewhat mortified, when I found that in it is necessary clearly to understand this—do not let it be the autumn her Majesty's Ministers had commissioned one supposed, because you advocate a frugal and economic ad of their colleagues to repair to the chief seats of industry in ministration of the public funds, you are opposed to the the country, and, as far as I could collect, entirely changed maintenance of the efficiency of the public services or those the policy which they had hitherto supported and sustained, establishments which are necessary. Well, we are to receive (Cheers.) It was not an accident. That d ec la ra ti o n was these papers upon Denmark, Italy, and other places. 1 will w ait until they are before us—certainly b e f ore I w ill t ouc h formal. It was made avowedly with the consent and with o the sanction of the Government. (Hear, hear.) And what on the subject of Denmark. I may sa y I thi n k, w ith d ue did that declaration mean ? If it meant anything, it meant humility, that Denmark is a subject lam not entirely igno that the Southern States ought to be recognised, because if it rant of. In 1848 I took the liberty of bringing the subject be true that they have created armies and navies and a pee- of Schleswig-Holstein before this house, and I was sup ple, then by every principle of policy and of public law we are ported at least by the sympathy of the present Secretary bound to recognise their political existence. (Cheers.) It ap- of State for Foreign Affairs, and I think, if I remem peered to me that upon the face of that declaration there was her aright, by a speech from the noble lord the First a very great inconsistency, and I think that the course of Minister of the Crown. 1 will not ventare to introduce conduct there recommended was one which nothing had the subject on this occasion, but, not being entirely igno occurred in the interval to justify. (Hear.) It is most un- rant of it, I will venture to say of the Schleswig-Holstein fortunate upon a subject of such importance, and upon question that it is one which all understand and which none which it appeared that the Government had taken at first can explain. (Laughter.) Who could have supposed, then, so correct and dignified a position, there should hav e b een that in the late autumn, the Foreign Secretary, being in exhibited by her Majesty's Ministers such contradictory Germany, and, as we all hope, finding the relaxation which conduct and such conflicting opinions. (Hear, hear.) And after his labours he required, and which none, I am sure, that in that state of things they should have felt it their will grudge him, should have thought it discreet and nem duty to communicate this vacillation of purpose and this eary to revive this interminable question, when there are inconsistency of judgment to the whole nation. (Hear.) many other points in Europe generally which might occupy We were told originally by the Minister who ought to be his attention, and that he should have thought it necessary the best informed upon these topics—namely, the noble earl to write a dispatch into the merits of which I will not now the Minister for Foreign Affairs—what in the opinion of enter—(laughter)—supporting a policy apparently contrary her Majesty's Government were the motives of this civil to the policy which he favoured when he was the most war—that there was a desire upon the part of the North to responsible Minister of the Crown, and which, I understood, establish dominion, and on the part of the South to achieve was supported by the noble lord who succeeded him. On independence. (Hear, hear.) It may have been, perhaps, the question of what has occurred at Rome I suppose we indiscreet on the part of her Majesty's Ministers to have must have some explanation ; but I must in self-vindica made that public declaration of their opinion; but what are tion remind the house that, two years ago, having to speak we to say of the subsequent definitions of this contest which upon our relations with Italy, I did suggest that the settle. have also been supplied ? It is only a fortnight since a member of the Cabinet said that the whole cause of this war was the existence of slavery, and he denounced that as ment of the Romish question was not one that was so easy as some hon. gentlemen appeared to think—that the ques tion of the residence of the Pope was not to be settled of€• a pestilent institution. (Hear.) What agreement is there between the President of the Board of Trade, who spoke but a fortnight ago, and that Minister who upon such sub jects is a high authority, when he gave the opinion of the Cabinet at the commencement of the war. (Hear, hear.) hand ; that it was one equally interesting to Protestant and Roman Catholic States, and peculiarly interesting, as it has always been held to be by our great statesmen, to the United Kingdom. But I ventured to say it would lead to controversies and misunderstandings as to the country in One day we find another member of the Cabinet recom mending as the only specific the recognition of Southern independence, and he is immediately followed by a colleague who said that none of the conditions upon which indepen dence should be recognised as yet existed in the Southern States. (Hear, hear.) In fact this variety of opinion is so prevalent amongst her Majesty's Ministers that I believe one of them, not yet a member of the Cabinet, but whose lips are steeped in the gravity of the Privy Council, in formed as recently that in the opinion of the Government the Lord of Hosts was on the side of the Southern States. (Laughter.) Sir, 1 think it is very much to be regretted that which the Pope should take his permanent residence. What was said by the noble lord, who was then a member of this house ? We merely imagined contingencies which prohably might never occur. Not 24 months have passed, and we find the Roman Catholic and Protestant Powers in active competition on this very subject—(laughter) —as to the country where the Pope should reside, and the power and influences under which he should remain. I leave it to another occasion to advert, if necessary, to more im portant considerations connected with this matter, but I feel it right to recall those remarks which I once made to show that they have been completely justified by the event. her Majesty's Government did not adhere to that reserve which distinguished them during the last session upon this great question, and it is much to be deprecated, unless a change took place in their policy, that there should not have been mere silence during the recess as regards their individual opinions. (Hear, hear,) Whatever may be the disinclination of her Majesty's Government to interfere I take it for granted that something will appear in the papers which will explain, or at least mitigate, the almost intolerable absurdity of the position, as it at present ap pears to impartial observers. (Hear.) I give the Govern ment credit for their consistency; and no doubt some infor mation will be laid on the table which will remove from them that surplusage of absurdity that at present seems to with other Powers in the conflict in the American states, there does not appear to be any abstract objection on the part of the Government to interfere in the affairs of other states, inasmuch as in the course of the autumn they have attach to them. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The noble lord, in this mellow harvest of autumnal indiscretion— (laughter) —was not content with disturbing the waters of the Baltic, but he appears to have been very active in the felt it becoming them to interfere in many other puts of the world. (Hear, hear.) Therefore the objection is not an abstract one ; it must be founded entirely on the circum the Mediterranean; and here, again, we have arrived at a point on which information may be expected from her Ma jesty's Government. There have often been controversies stances before them. We are promised in the Speech of the Royal Commissioners papers with reference to Greece, to Italy, and to Denmark. I must say that on all those subjects papers are very necessary. (Laughter.) They may through light upon transactions and communications which certainly have startled and perplexed us in the re respecting the policy of the noble lord the First Minister; very different opinions and descriptions of it have been given ; and of course the noble lord must be subject to that criticism which all eminent persons allow when their con duct is concernel. Sometimes the foreign policy of the noble lord is called a "spirited" foreign policy; sometimes cess. But there is one country not mentioned in the Royal Speech respecting which I should be glad if we could get some information, and particularly with regard to the popular question of the day—interference—and that is China. I wish I had a more accurate and rather more pre cise idea of what our relations are with China, and what is it is called a" turbulent" policy ; sometimes the noble lord is described as the " incarnation of Liberalism ;" and some times he is denounced as the " ready tool of any despot," provided the despot is powerful. (Hear, hear.) I suppose I shall have some information in a few days respecting the incredible proceedings which, within these last few hours, going on with the Chinese, than seems to be in the posses sion of parliament at present, and which knowledge we cer tainly cannot obtain from the Royal Speech. So far as I can judge from the communications that arrive by every mail, there is constant fighting in China (hear, hear), and it appears to be supported in a great degree by our fellow subjects. By one mail we learn that an English admiral has been wounded ; another informs us that an English colonel has been killed ; and there is a great deal of slaughter which is occasioned by causes at present un known. But in the recess there was a communication made to the public by a member of the Government on the subject of China, which was of a startling character. There was a meeting of a scientific society, which was attended by some officers of distinction in her Majesty's service, and these officers informed the Geographical Society that they were going to China, having been engaged by the Em peror of China, and having the privilege to enlist their fellow-subjects to fight in his behalf—in fact, another Spanish legion. (Hear, hear.) That communication created considerable surprise ; but there seemed to be some doubt on the part of the eminent chairman whether it was one that might be depended on, and seeing a member of the Government present he ventured to appeal to the right hon. gentleman to know whether there was any authority for the statement. The right hon. gentleman said it was perfectly true, he entirely agreed with the operation and enterprise, and he wished those gallant Englishmen who were enlisting in order to fight the Tartar dynasty of China all success, and trusted that they would completely accomplish their object. There is then a war in China. We see, in fact, officers in her Majesty 's service are enlisting British subjects in order to interfere between the Emperor of China and his rebellious subjects. I want to know whether this is a policy which he house approves of, or whether they de not think it requires some explanation. Let me remind the house it is about 25 years since our Chinese policy com menced ; the noble lord, the present First Minister, may be said to be its author. It began by attempting to put down the Tartar dynasty. The noble lord, when he was informed by the late much-respected Sir James Graham, then a mem - her of this house, that the population of China was " very considerable," nearly half ,the population of the globe, and that it was not easy to put down a Government which had the resources of a nation of that magnitude--the noble lord said, "It is very true ; the population consists of perhaps 300,000,000; but one-half of the population consists of secret societies, which are not aware of the real state of China. The great body of the subjects of the Emperor are discontented with the Government ; we are confident we shall have sup port in attacking the empire of China which you have no knowledge of; we are well informed, and depend upon it we shall be successful." Their policy was successful certainly; it is developing—and it has developed with great effect ever since—those secret societies which are known by other names familiar to this house. Twenty-five years have elapsed, and the noble lord who was then making war against the Tartar dynasty is now supporting it, and making war against those rebellious subjects of the Emperor of China. We have completely changed our position; we aro making war now against an insurrection which is called the Taeping insur rection. Great controversies have occurred as to the nature of the insurrection. Who are the Taepings? What are the Taepings? I maintain we have nothing to do with the Taepings. Whether the Taepings ar3 patriots, or whether they are brigands, is nothing to the people of England. The j status of the T ae pi ngs i s a ques ti on f or t h e Ch i nese, no t for the English; and if we attempt to deal with this question — if we att empt, in this illegitimate and roundabout manner, to support the Tartar dynasty against the Taepings, we shall ultimately again be involved in a Chinese war, and that for I a different obj ec t and on a different side to that we have hitherto taken. (H ear, hear.) I importance, et a moment when w h e a h y o i a t r i f s o a r tmhaetfiterretoftimgreeoatt. a reduction in the public expenditure , thcat, Chinese should not get involved in a China war, All the se proved to be causes of financial embarrassm n eint teowthairsschouanve_ try, and have led to that increase of taxation of which we have heard so much lately. (Hear, hear.) W e arc promised reduction of expenditure, and, no doubt, it will not be in considerable, or else it would not have been mentioned in the Speech. lam extremely glad to hear it. I ventured last year, knowing what would inevitably cccur, to call the attention of the house to our expenditure. Wo were then told that retrenchment was impossible, because if you re trench you must be subservient to France. lam happy we can now retrench, and we arc not subservient to France ; retrenchment and reduction do not necessarily involve hu =illation to this country and subserviency' to France to ßut be if you wa n t t o h ave any rea l retrenchment it is not had by a care l ess an d h asty cut ti ng down of an expenditure which prob a bl y may b e unnecessar il y large; it is to be had by taking care that our policy is a policy which does not lead to expenditure. (Hear.) Chinese policies and some other policies lead to expenditure; and you must take care to check policies of the kind if you want real reduction, or any reduction. If you have a policy which leads to expen diture, reduction will be mere moonshine. We hear a great deal in these discussions of the late Duke of Wel lington. lie was not a Prime Minister who would have starved the army; and it is well known he had an equal admiration and feeling for the other branch of her Majesty's service. Therefore it is quite clear that the army and navy, when the Duke of Wellington was Prime Minis- _,.:a,..~~.,._.__ ___. have come to our knowledge in our relations with tho Bra zilians. There is one point on which the noble lord is for tunate not to be misunderstood ; there is one point in his career upon which there never have been two opinions. All sides, at all times, have given him credit for being a con sistent, a determined, and a most able supporter of the independence of the Turkish empire. The noble lord has not only maintained that it was of the utmost political im portance to this country that the integrity and independence of the Turkish empire should be maintained, hut he has gone much further, and wisely, in his position. He has maintained that the resources of Turkey, with fair play, are amply sufficient to maintain that integrity and indepen dence without the assistance of foreign nations. But the noble lord was supposed by some to take even an exagge rated view of this question. He opposed with warmth and ardour the undertaking of the French to penetrate, by a canal, the Isthmus of Suez ; the noble lord thought that that was an enterprise that was dangerous to the Turkish empire. To use his own expression, it cut the territories of the Sultan in two, and he, therefore, exerted himself to oppose the project. The present Secretary for Foreign Affairs differed from the noble lord—he was tor penetrating the Isthmus —and h e gave ex p ress i on on th a t occas i on t o opinions which were considered quite heretical by those who follow in the noble lord's wake, who are in favour of maintaing an independent Turkey. There fore, when the Government was newly formed, when the noble lord elected as Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs the very statesman who was supposed to differ from him in opinion to a great degree on this cardinal question of modern politics, the existence of the Turkish empire, there was alarm and anxiety among some who share the opinions of the noble lord the First Minister. But in the course of the extraordinary autumn, an opportunity oc curred for the noble lord the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs to relieve the public mind of Europe and of this na• tion from all anxiety on the subject, and he had an oppor tunity which probably no minister has had for a consider able time of expressing, in the most formal manner, the policy of the Government upon the vital question, the main tenance of the Turkish power and the general disposition of political influence in the Levant. It so happens that, shortly after the house rose, there occured in Turkey a series of what I should describe as artificial insurrections—that is, they were got up by foreign agents, who were paid by foreign money, that was, patronised by foreign governments— one in Servia and an important one in Montenegro. These were put down—notably ihat in Montenegro—by the Porte with great power and sufficiency; and the Minister for Foreign Affairs of Russia, who was supposed, I dare say quite un. justly, to have beentheweniathhiunsg to coveriasticpatr h ono i f s the retreat, Pri n c e o f M o ntenegro, generally ad riressed a despatch to our Government in which he cm nS e u e l e t a s s n i t had y te exacted r f p r l o a m i n e h d i m ef ! I the do hardn' t th i n t e k r m theres whichw its a t n h y e that despatch, but of course that is a matter of taste, and a secretary is not a monster who omits an opportunity of writing a letter. (Laughter.) He did answer that despatch; he answered it conclusively upon the important point of complaint, because he did not think that the terms were different from those which any power under the circum stances would exact. He also took that opportunity of en tering into the whole question of our policy with regard to the Turkish empire. I think all temperate men, all men who are anxious for tranquillity in the Levant, as being of European interest, are certainly in favour of maintaining in that country existing authority, and at the same time that desire is consistent with the belief that in the subject rioareeasiolfw.tehekPnoor: t e h v e e r n e tu s al hou in ld de a p t e l n e d as e t ne b e e . a B p u ro t g t r h es e s, n a e n b d le , lord with ththeesSeectareodtleyerateof op S i ta ni te ons w , as not at all satisfied and he lays it down in his despatch as an absolute alternative that the Tur oertittehre subject t r . n a t c e e r ti l empi re nans must and b G e Greeks, w tained ile n Sk c ies c lha in v e ° struggles, if only for cutting each other's throats, t he countries will be divided, an d even the partition will probably lead to a general war. That was the opinion of the Government; and not satisfied with this, that is only four months ago—the 27th of September, 1862, is the date of the noble lord's dispatch—the noble lord says to these poor Sclavonians, representing ma n y milli ons of industrious pee_ , y ' Sclavonians, e Y n ou nallueat ideas ,anwehiGehreyekons gG yourre e k e s s o p n e s n , i al and ly, h to av t o he go G t Greeks, You d w u h l i t c i h ma a t i e m ly a r t e t v e i rm vin i g na t t h in e wa allegiancent tto c t a o r r t empire. y he in P te or e t tr e, ec a t n , end in general disaster, and they are views which not only These are views we never will t olerate ; the y must will lead to the destruction of the Porte, but which will subvert every other Government." Well, now sir, who could suppose that only a few weeks a fter this revolution n occurred in Greece the Greeks should have requested . to be allowed to elect an English prince for their Sovereig n ? Of course it would be inconvenient to enter into a discussion of this subject now ; an d f rom what I learn from other quarters it is one that will occupy the attention of the House of Coiemors at a subsequent period. We are in formed in the Speech from the Throne that the diplomatic engagements of her Majesty's Crown, together with other weighty considerations, have prevented her Majesty from yielding to the general wish of the Greek nation. But if diplomatic engagements prevented the acceptance why were the Greeks kept in suspense—(cheers)—most injurious and most trying under the circumstances ? Diplomatic engagements are precise and positive, and there are not more engagements now than there were four months ago— (Hear hear.) That is a matter which requires some infor mation, and I hope that we may receive it. It' is strange that about the same time the Secretary of State, who is opposed to creating any ideas amogst the Greeks of the ex pansion of territory, which may lead to attacks upon Tur key and perhaps convulsions in Europe, should have an . 'Jounced the intenti on o f her Majesty's Government greatly to increase the territory of Greece, and that in a very pecu liar way, by reducing the territory of her Majesty. It is said that public opinion has decided in favour of the ces sion of the lonian Islands. The gradual and matured op i n ion of an enlightened and enquiring people should re ceive the vigilant anxiety of any Minister, and should greatly influence his opinion; but I deny that the tattle of clubs is to be regarded as public opinion. A resolution of this kind should be adopted only after a mature inquiry, knowledge, and great deliberation on the ample part of the cabinet, Public opinion says that this is no THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 6, 1863 cession of territory whatever, but merely a resignation of I a protectorate which has been entrusted to us under the treaty of 1815. Now this is very dangerous ground to take, and we should pause before we accept a representation of that kind. The treaty of 1815 entrusted the Jordan Islands to England in almost the same manner as it did Paris to the French people. How did we become possessed of the lonian Islands ? We became possessed of them by conquest before 1815. Why were they conquered ? We did not conquer them, I suppose, out of wantonness and for amusement. We conquered them because the great men to whom we en trusted the duty of guarding British interests and main taining British power in these waters thought they were must important ; and as they could not accomplish behests of the British Government so long as these insular harbours were in the power of our rival and enemy, they therefore occupied the lonian Islands. The control—the injurious control—which the French forces in these islands exercised during the war on British shipping and interests was so great that so eminent a name as that of Lord Collingwood impressed upon the British Government the absolute neces sity of these harbours being taken. It has been said that ' Corfu was not seized in a military sense. Six of the islands, including Cephalonia, which Sir C. Napier, a man of the highest authority upon any subject connected with war, and especially upon this question, said was of the utmost im portance, had been conquered. Corfu, which was not taken, was an arrow in our side, but we strictly blockaded it, and when Napoleon suddenly fell it was surrendered to us by a military convention; and it was in every sense of the word a military surrender. Therefore, when the congress of Vienna had to deliberate upon- the settlement of Europe we were in military possession of those islands, which we had conquered and occupied, because when in the posses sion of an enemy they were injurious to our power and interest. The noble lord now proposes that these islands should be given to Greece. See what the effect of giving them to Greece is. You are favouring that very policy which on the 27th September of last year the noble lord had denounced, as I think, with unnecessary warmth. 'You are increasing the resources, the wealth, and popu lation of Greece. And what interpretation the Greeks put upon this cession you may see by what took place in Corfu, where they used in regard to it an expression well known in this country, that they would take it as an instalment. This shows that the Greeks regard your policy as encouraging them in their views against the integrity of the Turkish empire. It may be right to do all this; but I do not think this is the occasion to enter into that discussion. Still, let the house understand that her Majesty's Govern ment have followed a different policy, and have changed the view which they have always upheld in this house with regard to the East ; that they are not pursuing that course which the noble lord advocated in such burning terms in his despatch to Prince Gortschakoff. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, so much for its influence upon Greece. What is its influence upon England ? I have shown the house that, as regards England, these islands were taken by us because their possession by the enemy was injurious to our interests, and therefore it is quite absurd to maintain that their pos session by us is not conducive to our interests. It is said that Government will not give up these islands without conditions. The very fact that you are giving them up with conditions attached proves that you ought n-it to give them up—(hear, hear)—and that to surrender them without con ditions would be injurious. Then what security have you got that your conditions will be fulfilled ? (Hear, hear.) What are your conditions ? Your conditions are that Greece shall have a constitutional monarchy, and at the same time shall not disturb her neighbours. What is the result of constitutional monarchy ? Constitutional monarchy pro duces party ; and is it not obvious that the Liberal party of Greece will demand an expansion of territory and endeavour to carry out the Greek idea? Thus the very condition of the surrender will precipitate the very conclusion which the noble lord wishes to be avoided. (Hear, hear.) Therefore, so far as regards Greece, you have changed your policy, and you are pursuing a policy which will necessitate the results you yourselves have denounced. But as regards the power of England, if these islands do conduce to it, why are they given up ? And if they are not necessary to our power and influence, why were they taken ? Some of the first men in England have said that they were necessary ; therefore it is idle to argue the case on mere technical grounds, and to say that it is only a protectorate. By the treaty of 1815 Prussia was made protector of the Rhine for the purpose of form ing a barrier against France. The Italian provinces were entrusted to Austria for the common good of Europe; but Prussia and Austria believed, and believe, that the posses sion of the Rhine and the Italian provinces contributed to their power, or why would they retain them ? Are we, then, to be told that we are only protectors, and the cession of a pro vince is to be settled by a special pleading and an argument like that ? I am sure the House of Commons will never sanc tion such a proceeding. What has happened during the last 25 years ? Have you not practically changed your route to India? And has it not been constantly alleged that the pos session of these islands is of the utmost importance in main taining that route ? lam perfectly aware that there is a school of politicians who are hostile to every principle of the 'British empire —but I have to learn that her Majesty's Go vernment have adopted these wild theories which have be come so prevalent of late. Professors and mere rhetoricians will find you systems for every contingency and principle for every chance—but we are not going, I hope, to have the British governed by such views and maxims. There may be a question as to the best mode of acting, Some may be in favour of protection to domestic and colonial interest— may be in favour of commercial treaties and treaties of re ciprocity, which have become so modish nowadays—but there can be no question in the country as to the best mode of preserving our wealth. The best mode of preserving our wealth is i by power—and you must get possession of the strong places of the world if you wish to have this power. As far as this question of Greece is concerned, I hope that the arrangement is not a matured arrangement, and that we shall have an opportunity of considering it before any thing is finally determined. I understand that by agreeing to this Address we are not pledging ourselves to this policy with regard to the session of the lonian Islands. This being so I shall not propose an amendment to the Address—but I thought it right to warn the house of the very dangerous consequences of the proposal announced in the Speech from the Throne, involving as it does the gravest considerations that can possibly be discussed in this house. (Loud cheers.) Col. SYKE denounced our policy in China. We were drilling tho Imperial soldiery in order to appose the progress of the Taepings, who were Christians. The result would be that some day a cause of quarrel would spring up between us anti the Imperialists, and the armed bands that we are new training would be turned against ourselves. He hoped that a definite vote would be taken with respect to that policy. Lord R. MONTAGU said he had listened to the an nouncement in the Speech respecting retrenchment with some feeling of irritation, bearing in mind the tardiness with which the undertaking: had been given. No doubt it was due to the very uncertain grasp of the reins of office held by the Government. He believed, however, that not only would there be no surplus, but a serious de ficiency, for, although the country had not actually de • dared war, they were carrying on wars in every part of the world. Our foreign policy, and'that system of making loans in every quarter of the globe, was the cause of our financial embarrassment. These loans brought us into unpleasant contact with every country in the world. It was absurd to suppose that if the money was not sent out of the country for loans, it would not be profitably employed at home. The objections to the loans were that we took guarantees which we did not know how to realise. With regard to the question of the lonian Islands, he must object to the silence and secrecy of the proceedings. It was not true that the pretended cause of that cession was sudden or unexpected. He had never before heard of a Government intriguing to get rid of territory, and he asked her Majesty's Government what right they had to cede any territory which belonged to the nation. In any case, no promise should have been made until the great Powers had been consulted, and until the matter had been brought before the house. Her Ma jesty's Government had treated the representatives of the people as if they were too contemptible to be consulted. The hon. member cited strong opinions given at different times by ber Majesty's Ministers against the cession of the lonian. Islands, which he said would be looked upon throughout the East as a sign of weakness on our part. He combated the arguments which had been advanced in favour of the cession, and insisted that Corfu was an im portant military post which it was most unwise to surren der. If the principle upon which the cession was to be made was once admitted, no end of claimants would spring up, whom it would be impossible to satisfy. Mr. MAGUIRE thoroughly sympathised with the Go vernment in their wise and generous cession of the lonian Islands. It was wise taking advantage of a favourable opportunity of getting rid for ever of a cause of reproach. embarrassment, and expense. There was an allusion to the Lancashire distress in the Speech. He was happy to find that, in the opinion of the Government, that distress was rather diminishing than increasing. He was sorry to be obliged to state that, whatever the distress might be in Lancashire, he solemnly believed that there was twice, nay, ten times more serious distress impending at the present moment in Ireland. When he made similar statements last year in reference to certain districts, they were derided or denied ; but returns afterwards proved the truth of his assertions. Whatever the distress was then, it was ten times greater now. cwing to the bad harvests of the last three years. The last was the crushing blow, and he appealed to the Govern ment and the English people. Rents could not be paid with punctuality, and the small farmers were en tirely crushed. They were in debt to everyone, owing en tirely to accumulated calamity, and not from want of perse severance and frugality on their part. The country shop keepers suffered in proportion. The meal merchant's was the only trade that was prosperous. Processes had increased ten and twenty. fold. The artisans in the towns were also suffering, and, as showing the state of the country, he in stanced the emigration of between 70,000 and 80,000 last year from Ireland to America, notwithstanding the civil war in that country. The populatiDn was decreasing, relief committees had to be established, and Lord Castlerosse had mercifully given employment to 500 labourers on his estate to alleviate their distress. He complained of the want of outdoor relief in Ireland, except in very rare instances, which created much misery amongst the labouring popula tion, They had a repugnance to enter workhouses, yet the per tentage had greatly increased last year, and it was 50 per cent, more than the year previous to that. Poor rates were also increasing in the same proportion. The state of Ireland was eminently dangerous, and the people of Ireland, who sympathised with Lancashire distress,were entitled to some consideration from the people of this country. The g sb a e ur n ti tl the y yh er eo means t r i Il e a do n f d t oe mmusttheirplgiveoymm eean means. relief, sb. y pH ü b eb u ldi t d that ro k m t s u. askst bf for r n a c m e s s Mr, c C, F O uni lt e ea S dr T r E ang ß ea.m expressed oli uttet.looked T h h i f gratification opruwbal ircd wto oau atrelief l in t e h of et frompro posede st a a n l d a modification of the income-tax—if not a y without some relief was atio ß n d o r y ed Chancellor of the Exchequer, hch was a matter of q certaint —w uer afforded . them. He hoped a n nyd disposing oppress o v fe ihisincome tax. e e r - - pts g hal r ate e is a s i w the reduction of this inquisitorial ould apply it to tax. (Hear, hear.) 1 Mr. BAILLIE COCHRANE eulogised the conduct of sinceple cetn totKingthe h candi dature E the Greeks, and praised Th th e e h ir moderation on.winietmhbreers then complained ohfadthleefctouthrse Governmenttrecooufnthey. of Prince Alfred for the throne of Greece. par ticular organ of the noble lord at the head of the Go e ve ment had from the ve r y outset distinctl y s upported the - election of the Prince, and t h e French Minister, M. Drouyn de Lhuys, had quoted its opinions in proof of the views of the English Cabinet. If, however, those opinions were not shared in by them, why had not that organ been at once dis avowed ? No doubt Earl Russell might pride himself on the dodge which he had practised, and of his having got rid thereby of the Duke of Leuchtenberg ; but he forgot all the time the injury which he was inflicting upon the (Greek nation by not announcing to them at once that the didature of the Prince could sot be accepted. He must p r otest eitul against the language of the noble lord the member wholly different from had not inheritedrilt Huntingdon (Lord R. Montagu) with reference to the Greeks. Re was not one to advocate revolution. but he could not but it by the three Powers that the position of the late King was that of an ordinary monarch; for he throne, but he had been placed upon : lord h upon conditions tehead which he had en tirely failed to observe. R e hoped that before the discus sion closed the noblel of the government Mr. HENNESSY believed the present state of Ireland was this, that everything in Ireland which indicated pros perity was wanting, and everything which indicated de pression was to be found there. No mention had been made of Ireland in the Royal Speech or in the address, and he was not surprised at this, looking at the constitution of the Government. With 105 members representing Ireland, not one of them was to be found on the Treasury Bench. With regard to the state of Poland, he would take that opportu nity of asking the noble lord the First Minister whether, during the Crimean war, any overtures were made by Aus tria to the allies with reference to Poland. For his own part, he believed that Austria had offered to join the allies upon the condition that Poland should be made a depen dency of the former. We were bound by treaty to protect the interests of the Poles ; and inasmuch as Run is had violated the treaty of Vienna with regard to Poland, we should lose all our character for honesty and honour if we did not now do something for the relief of that oppressed country. He also thought it would be interesting to know whether the papers to be laid on the table on the sub ject of Italy would include all the papers sent by Lord Russell directly or indirectly to the Pope. The account given by Cardinal Antonelli was that Mr. Odo Russell had informed him that a private letter had been received from Earl Russell, expressing his regret that the Pope was not disposed for the moment to accept his propo sition, and adding that he had reason to believe his holiness would feel himself in a short time under the necessity of adopting it. To this Cardinal Antonelli made no reply, and he considered he was right. This proposal did not degrade, and he had reason to believe it did not annoy the Roman. Government; but he did think it degraded another Govern ment, for it was degradation to make a threat when there was not the power of executing it, And it was from the author of the Durham letter that this letter and this advice proceeded. It was the author of the Durham letter who said he acted thus in the interest of catholicity. His love of catholicity and the Pope was so profound that he advised the Pope to leave Rome. If this was not hypocrisy it was a piece of impudent audacity on the part of the noble earl. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) From beginning to end the policy of the English Government in the matter was dis graceful and inconsistent. It was feeble, and it was a failure. (Laughter.) The basis of that policy was laid by the noble viscount opposite. In March, 1849, the noble lord wrote—" The British Government are desirous that the Pope should be placed in such a temporal position as would enable him to act with entire independence." Al though he agreed in that opinion he doubted the propriety of any English Government going that length, (Hear.) The noble viscount further said that the Pope's friends were the majority and his enemies in the minority at that time, and that he learned with much pleasure that the French had been invited, with Austria, Spain, and the kingdom of the Two Sicilies, to intervene on behalf of the Pope—the object of the intervention being to restore the Pope to his dominions. Again, he thought the noble lord went out of his way when, as an English minister, he expressed great pleasure at that circumstance. But the conduct of the British Government was not only feeble but treacherous. After the Pope had been restored he was anxious that the occupation of his territories should terminate, and it was Count Cavour who, in a memorandum approved of by Lord - Clarendon, recommended, as the means to that end, that the Pope should create an army half composed of natives and half of foreigners. The Pope fell in with that view, and an army was created composed two-thirds of natives and one-third of foreigners. Yet this same Count Cavour, who suggested the formation of an army composed of half natives and half foreign ers, was the very person who afterwards sent a note to Cardinal Antonelli complaining of the employment of foreign mercenaries. (Hear, hear.) And a very few days after, General Cialdini, at the head of 35,000 men, marched into the Pope's territories and destroyed the Pope's army. He believed the occupation of the French troops would have ceased but for that act, which was denounced by all parties, and by every statesman in Europe, except by the noble lord at the head of the Foreign-office, who defended it. (Hear, hear.) The noble viscount not only attacked the Government of the Pope, but he attacked the French Government for the occupation of Rome. Yet the noble viscount himself encouraged the armed intervention of France. He believed the conduct of the noble viscount was calculated to endanger the alliance between the people of France and this country, for there could be little doubt as to the feeling of the French people on this subject. A division took place the other day in the French Senate, and the minority against the policy of France was composed of a single member. There was not a single place in France at which a candidate could show himself who would vote for the policy now pursued by the noble lord. Ho (Mr. Hennessy) wished to contrast the conduct of the Pope and of King Victor Emmanuel with respect to the Polish in surrection. The Czar had notified to the Pope that if his Holiness would endeavour to put down the Polish clergy, and particularly the Archbishop of Warsaw, the kingdom of Italy would not be recognised by Russia. About the same time it was notified to King Victor Emmanuel by the Em peror of Russia that if the Polish schools in Piedmont were closed, and the formation of a Polish legion prevented, the kingdom of Italy would be recognised. The Pope at once declined to interfere. Victor Emmanuel, on the other hand, accepted the proffered conditions. 'Mr. SMOLLETT called attention to the omission of India from the Royal Speech. He regretted the absence of the members of the Indian Council from this house. Their absence made the Secretary for India master of the situa tion, and a dictator over 180,000,000 of people. (Hear.) He called attention to the meetings that had been held at Manchester in reference to the state of India and the cotton trade during the recess. Charges of gross misconduct were brought against the Secretary for India and the Prime Minister. He, however, concurred with the right hon. gentleman on those points on which the Manchester meet ing had condemned him, and should be ready, when the time came, to defend him. (Hear, hear.) Lord PALMERSTON,on rising to address the house,was loudly cheered. He said—l am not going to follow all the hon. gentlemen who have spoken into the many and desul tory topics upon which they have made their observations, but there are a few remarks which I think it my duty to address to the house. In the first place, I am sure the country must be gratified by the manner in which this house has received the announcement of the approaching marriage of the Prince of Wales—a matter of the deepest interest, not only to the Royal family but also to the whole nation ; of the deepest interest for the present and of augury of good for the future. (Hear, hear.) One may remark this, his Royal Highness has been peculiarly fortunate in that re spect—that whereas the common fate of Royal marriages has been that persons are contracted together who have had no previous knowledge of each other, and with whom poli tical considerations are the guiding principle of union, in this the - marriage may, in the fullest sense of the word, be called a love-match, while the amiable and excellent quali ties of both parties give the fairest promise of permanent and complete happiness. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman who spoke immediately after the seconder of the Address took a wide range of attack upon the foreign policy of the Government. That appeared to me to be the topic uppermost in his mind. He made broad accusations against the Government—some really, I must say, of a very dis agreeable kind, (A laugh.) He accused the Government of an intriguing policy. (Hear, hear.) I could not help thinking in my own mind that the right hon. gentleman must have had some sort of recollection of the policy of some former Government, of which he has, doubtless,more knowledge than of the proceedings of the present Cabinet —(a laugh)—or that, by some confusion of ideas, he was reflecting rather upon the conduct of certain leaders of the Opposition than upon that of the Government of the day. (Hear, and laughter.) All I can say is that I utterly deny and repudiate the accusation of the right hen, gentleman— (hear)—and I will venture to add that there never was an accusation brought against any Government more com pletely unfounded than that comprised in the words he used. (Cheers.) If any proof were wanting of the influence, the just influence, which this country possesses over the opinion of other nations, without intrigue, without any un• derhand, or other than honourable conduct, it would he af forded by that which we have seen lately passing in Greece. The whole nation—not simply that portion of it which in habits Greece,but also those members of the Greek commu nity who are scattered over every country in Europe— has with most astonishing unanimity declared iu favour of a Royal Prince of England, on account of the high character of the Rc yal family of England, and on account of the fair and honourable policy which England has pursued. (Cheers.) There was a curious instance of that happened the other day in the Moldo-Wallachian provinces. A deputation of the Greek merchants and other persons residing in one of the towns of those provinces called upon our Consul—a person they did not know except by name--and said their object was to tell him that the Greek nation was unanimous in their desire of having a British prince as their ruler, because, they stated, of the honest and straightforward policy of England, and because England was the only pewir which invariably protected the weak against the strong. (Cheers.) At the commencement of his speech the right hon. gentle man referred to our relations with China, and found fault with the Government for not having mentioned China in the speech from the Throne. If there are any papers which anybody wishes to have relating to recent transactions in China, there will be no difficulty in producing them. But the right hon. gentleman said that the policy we were pur suing in China was inconsistent with that which we origi nally followed, and was a policy leading us into a Chinese war. The policy we pursued in China from the beginning was to protect our trade and commerce with that country, and those who know anything of China will not hesitate to admit that our commerce with that country is a most im portant outlet for the productive industry of these islands, Whence in the outset proceeded the obstructions to our commerce in China ? From the Imperial Government. It was the duty of the Government of this country to endeavour to remove those obstructions, and to insist upon those rights which properly belong to our subjects resident in China. At that time, therefore, we were in conflict with the Govern ment of China. We are no longer in conflict with the Go vernment of China; on the contrary, our Ministers and officers there are on the most friendly footing with the Go vernment, which, having its eyes open to its true interests, seeing that the old prejudices which induce it to keep the " outside barbarians" away from the country were illusions, now does all it can to promote commercial intercourse with other nations. Who now are the obstacles? The Taepings. (Hear, hear.) All the information we get from China goes to show that wherever the Taepings pass peace, commerce, industry, are destroyed. Their course is marked by murder, by bloodshed, by plunder, by everything that destroys com merce and the elements of commerce. (Hear, hear.) But we are not making war against these Taepings except so far as this--we requir e th em t o res p ec t the neighbourhood of those citi es i n which our commercial establish ments are fixed. We ar e withdrawing troops from China , instead of sending them th ere. (Hear, hear.) It is true, indeed , that. we have authori se d B ritish officers to eng age in the service of the Emperor , - Organise in his service and his pay certain small bodies of men who, by drilling and in structing his troops and his navy, may enable him to re • store tranquillity in his dominions. You may depend upon it that there is a strong English interest in that. Until tran quillity and order are restored in the provinces of China we cannot expect that development of British commerce which otherwise could not fail to take place, (Hear.) So much for our policy in China, which is not in contradiction to that we orginally acted upon, but is entirely in unison with it. The result has shown the success of our policy because we have converted an enemy into a friend, a suspicious and jealous people into friendly and eager traders. (Hear, hear.) Passing from China, the right hon. gentleman touched upon the question of Denmark, and he said—which no doubt was true, with reference to the person speaking—that he found it impossible to understand or explain anything relating to that subject. (Laughter.) If he had extended that observa tion to those other topics upon which he dilated, perhaps we should not have been much disposed to question the accu racy of his description of his own apprehension—(laughter) —because he certainly showed in his remarks how essential it is that the Government should do that which they have announced—viz., lay explanatory papers on the table of the house. Here is a right hon. gentleman of undoubted talent and genius, who has turned his attention very much to these questions, whose study of the ordinary sources of informa tion has brought him into that sort of hazy temper of mind which shows how much he would be benefited by the papers which we have intimated our intention to produce. (A laugh.) But the tight hon. gentleman is mistaken in sup posing that the despatch of Lord Russell which appeared in the autumn was a sudden act, unconnected with anything that passed before, and that my noble friend suddenly dashed, as it were, into a transaction with which we had no previous connexion. The fact is entirely different. We had for several years previously been engaged in attempts to mediate between Denmark and Germany. It had been my lot while in the Foreign-office to endeavour—not, I am sorry to say, with much success—to accomplish that object. Our mediation was invited by the two parties, but they were found so completely at variance, and the question was encompassed by such difficulties, that all that could be effected was a sort of provisional arrangement which pre vented the worst consequences of the dispute. But in the course of last year there was a threat of what was called execution on the part of the Diet at Frankfort. The Diet of the German Confederation threatened to marcle troops into Holstein with the object of carrying into effect their view of the matters then in dispute. My noble friend at the head of the Foreign-office prevailed on them to sus pend that operation; but in having so prevailed he was bound, at all events, to make suggestions by which a per manent arrangement of a friendly character might. be este blshed between the two parties. We can't say that we sue. ceeded in our endeavour ; but that endeavour was a link in the chain, and not a sudden thought unconnected with the transactions that had previously taken place. Papers will, however, be presented on that subject, and the house will then see upon what ground the step was taken to which the right hon. gentleman adverts. Then, with regard to Greece, the right hon. gentleman hopes that we took an early oppor tunity to inform the Greek Government that it was impos sible for Prince Alfred to accept the throne. IV ell, the very first moment that the Greek nation indicated a desire to elect Prince Alfred we communicated with France and Russia, the other two protecting Powers, to state our opinion that the protocol of 1830 was still in force, by which no member of the reigning families of either of the three protecting Powers can ascend the throne of Greece. There was, un doubtedly, some delay, arising, I won't say from an objec tion on the part of the Russian Government to admit the principle, but from a hesitation to admit its application to the Duke of Leuchtenberg, to whom, however, it was ulti mately admitted that it does undoubtedly apply. But the Greek Minister was informed at the earliest possible mo ment, and by myself, that in our opinion the protocol ap plied to Prince Alfred, and excluded both him and the Duke of Leuchtenberg from being elected as Sovereign of Greece. I am asked what is the present state of the question in re gard to the Duke of Coburg. lam not able to answer that question, because communications are still going on, the result of which lam not yet acquainted with. The right hon. gentleman expatiated at great length on the intimation made by her Majesty's Government of a readiness, under certain circumstances mentioned, to recommend a revision of the treaty by which the lonian Islands were placed under the protectorate of Great Britain. The right hon. gentle man really treated that question in a manner that surprised me. He said that the lonian Islands were by the treaty of 1815 placed under the British Crown in the same way as Paris was placed under France. The right hon. gentleman is not a man who speaks in this house without knowing what he is saying. He knows the value of words and the nature of things ; but I was astonished at his making an as sertion:of that kind . Compare it to Piedmont and to the Prus sian Rhenishprovinces. Why, he himselfstated that which negatived that general assertion. The lonian Islands were, as he said, six of them, occupied militarily by a British force at the time of the termination of the war, and Corfu sur rendered at the downfall of Napoleon. But their fate was determined, like the fate of many of the countries of Europe, by the treaties concluded in 1815, and to those treaties, and especially to the treaty in regard to the lonian Islands, Great Britain was a party. Well, what did that treaty do? Did that treaty say that that the lonian Islands were to be what the right hon. gentleman stated—a British territory, and to belong to the British Crown as one of its posses sions ? Quito the contrary. It stated that the Septinsular Republic was to be a separate and independent State, but, as a separate and independent State, was to be placed under the protection of the British Crown. (Hear, hear.) But it is no part of the dominions of the British Crown. The Queen is not Sovereign of the lonian Islands. Our treaties do not include or bind the lonian Islands. When a treaty of commerce is made there must be a separate act on the part of the lonian Islands to give them the benefit of that treaty. They have a separate Legislature of their own; we don't make laws for them. They are to all intents and pur poses literally and legally a separate State, forming no part of the British territory or dominions, but under the protec tion of England, by virtue of the treaty concluded between England and the other great powers of Europe. There fore all the argument of the right hon. gentleman, founded on the supposition that Corfu and all the other lonian Islands were to England what Paris is to France is, if he will allow me to repeat his own words, a perfect absurdity —(a laugh)—and has no bearing whatever on the question which the house may have to consider with reference to these islands. It is not now the time to discuss the policy of making that cession under the circumstances contemplated by the paragraph in the Queen's Speech. My own opinion is that it would be a wise measure. (Hear, hear.) I think it would be a generous measure. (Hear, hear.) 1 think it is due to that lonian State, which was placed under our protection for its benefit and not for our advantage. We were bound to do the best for it. I believe we have done the best for it hitherto by maintaining the protectorate, but if Greece is established under au enlightened Sovereign, who will develop her internal prosperity and maintain her external peace, it will be for the benefit of those islands to be united with their fellow. countrymen. (Hear, hear.) I think, too, that it is an example which may not be lost upon other countries. (Hear, hear.) There are other ques tions pending in the world, in Europe especially, with re gard to which an example of generous disinterestedness on the part of Great Britain, for the benefit of those whose fate has been committed to her charge, may not be without re sult, and I trust it may be imitated hereafter. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman adverted, as other gentlemen have done, to certain communications which have taken place in respect to Italy, and especially with respect to Rome and the Pope. A statement appeared in the book published by the French Government, and contained in a despatch from the French Minister at Rome, which was founded upon a complete misapprehension and misinforma tion as to what had really occurred. The statement made to the French ambassador, and by him conveyed to his Government, was that Mr. Odo Rus ell one fine day asked for an audience of the Pope, and having been admitted, re commended the Pope to leave Rome, and offered him a re fuge at Malta. Now, the course of the transaction was exactly the reverse a that. It was the Pope who sent for Mr. Russell—(hear, hear)—and, Mr. Russell not knowing what he was sent for, it was the Pope who in conversation expressed a wish to know whether, in the event of his being compelled by circumstances—which he, of course, did not then think likely, but which were possible—to leave Rome, he would be received and protected in England. (Hear.) Well, Mr. Russell could not of course give any other an swer than that he had no instructions, but that it was the custom of the English nation to receive, and hospitably to receive, all those who might from any circumstances feel it desirable to take up their abode in their country. Mr. Rus sell was then on the point of coming home to England. When he returned in November he carried the despatch, which was to be communicated to Cardinal Antonelli, in which Earl Russell instructed him to say that if circum stances should occur which would lead the Pope to leave Rome, and he should not think fit to take refuge in France or in Spain, the British Government would provide for him a suitable residence at Malta, where he would be received and treated with all the respect due to his rank and position. (Hear.) I think that was a proper communication, and it was one that was received appar en tly w ith grea t satisfaction by the Pope, as a proof of the goodwill and friendly feel ing of the British Government towards him. The hon. member for King's County has gone into a long disserta tion on transactions which took place in the year 1848, and he accuses me especially of inconsistency in the views which I have at different times entertained in regard to the occupation of Rome by the French. Why, the circum stances of 1848 were totally different from the circumstances of the present time. The hon. member says that the Pope had no army in 1848. Why, if my memory does not very much deceive me, the Pope declared war aga inst the Austrians, and sent his army to assist Piedmont . attack ing them. I think I am not mistaken in stating that. (Hear , hear.) But, no doubt, in the then state of Italy, it was thought desirable for the peace of the country established thatc a t re volutionary Government which had been e s _ a Rome should cease, and that the Pope should return into the possession of his dominions. I believe that was a great deal of unjust accusations brought against tha revolutionary Government. (Hear.) It was a much better Government than that which has since prevailed, but the state of thing s was very anomalous, and we thoug ht it wise and useful that it should be terminated. It does not follow, however, th a t because we held it to be an unobjectionable move on the part of the French in 1849 to restore the Pope we think it advis able that the French troops should continue there from that time to this, with the appearance of remaining till He aven knows when, for the purpose of maintaining a Government which, in our opinion, is distasteful to the majority of the people of Rome. (Hear, hear.) There was no inconsistency in that. At any rate, if we are to b e con d emned for having a pproved the entrance of the French into Rome, we may fairly be acquitted of any desire for the continuance of foreign bayonets in that city in order to maintain a Govern ment which the people do not wish to have. (Hear, hear.) Allusion has been made to certain recent transactions in Brazil. They arose from a just claim for compensation for British loses and injuries to British subjects. The Brazilian Government would not agree to meet that claim until re• prisals were commenced. Communications are still going on, but I belie ve th at a satisfactory understanding has been come to on the subject. (Hear.) A very legitimate tribute has been paid by an hon. member to the Greeks for their re cent conduct. . Th e y h ave certa i n l y s h own as muc h self-re straint and moderation as the Italians, and higher praise can scarcely be bestowed on them than by comparing them to that nation. (Hear.) The Greeks have behaved with great good seine, and I trust whoa they brie obtained a would give them some information respecting the candida ture of the Duke of Coburg. Sir J. TIANMER, speaking on behalf of the inhabitants of Wales, expressed the deep feelings of loyalty and sym pathy which had been evoked throughout the principality by the announcement of the intended marriage of the heir to the throne. Sir P. O'BRIEN described the small farmers of Ireland as reduced to the last extremities. Public works ought to set on foot to save them from utter annihilation. '..~r~h"r~..-. King fit to rule them, and a permanent Government, they will form a prosperous and successful State. (Heer, hear.) Their ancestors were distinguished in every department of intellectual power. They produced the first warriors, the first statesmen, the first poets, the first orators, the first painters and sculptors. I see no reason why the descen dants of those great men in the present day should not follow in their steps. In the history of nations we find that there is some influence at work, not easily to be ex plained, by which the people who inhabit a country con tinue notwithstanding diversions and changes of population to exhibit the same qualities; and there is no cause why the Greeks, when they get a good government, should not be come one of the most enlightened and distinguished nations in Europe. (Hear, hear.) It is said that in giving up the lonian Islands we are changing our policy, and we are told that if we were bent on making a present of them it should have been, of all the people in the world, to the Turks. (A laugh.) That would certainly have been a singular way of changing the distribution of population and the limits of States. But I wish to say that we have not altered our po licy towards Turkey. We hope that under the present Sultan Turkey will set her finances in order, and establish a sound government and just laws, fairly administered to all classes of the people. We trust that she will then be come strong both within and without. I certainly cannot see how the union of the Septinsular Republic to Greece can have any tendency to disturb the tranquillity of the Ottoman empire. (Hear, hear.) There is one topic which has been adverted to, and which is calculated to excite great regret—l mean the statement made by various hon. mem bers from different parts of Ireland as to the distress which they say prevails in parts of that country. There is no doubt that Ireland has had three bad years; and no country can endure that without suffering. My information, howev er , does not go so far as some o the statements which have been made to-night. I am told that the potatoes and oats were not generally bad in Ireland last year. The people were also able to save their turnips. The crops were certainly shorter than the average, and doubtless there is a good deal of pressure in many parts of the country. (Hear, hear.) I think, however, that some of the assertions which have been made are exaggerated, and, at all events, the appeal which has been made for a grant of money for public works would require to be supported by stronger evidence of its necessity than we have yet received. It is impossible that English members should not feel deeply for the miseries of any portion of the inhabitants of the United Kingdom. We sympathise as heartily with the sufferers in Ireland as with those in Lancashire. There is, however, this distinction between the two cases, that the misfortune in Ireland is due to natural causes, such as the unfavourable nature of the seasons ; while that in Lancashire is the result of human eauses, which, however, are beyond our cont ro l an d were not to be expected. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. BOWYER said the noble lord had expressed his preference for the Government of the Sultan over the Government of the Pope, she former being acknowledged to be the most corrupt in the world. The Government of the Pope was presided over by a Christian bishop, and yet the Prime Minister of a Christian country said he preferred a Mussulnsan government to one that was presided over by a Christian. The noble lord had said that his Holiness bad sent for Mr. Odo Russell to ask him if he could give him an asylum in case the Pope should be compelled to leave his dominions. That was an inaccurate statement of the case. It was at variance with the statement of the French minister. He (Sir G. Bowyer) would tell the noble lord what really did occur. (Laughter.) Mr. Odo Russell was not an accredited minister—he was not an ambassador, nor minister plenipotentiary, nor charge d'affa res. He had been the secretary to the legation at Florence, a n d was allowed to reside at Rome for business purposes. Sir G. GREY—He is attached to Turin. Sir G. BOWYER—He doubtless was attached toTurinin more senses than one. The interview that he had with the Holy Father was purely a private one, and on taking leave the Holy Father, as he had been talking about the muta bility of affairs, said, "Well, dear Mr. Russell, if ever t am in trouble, 1 may perhaps ask you for your assistanc e ." I t was merely a good natured observation, and had no politi cal meaning at all. "My dear Mr. Russell, perhaps, after all, I may ask your assistance." The Pope said, of course, that he did not intend to leave Rome., Subsequently, Mr Odo Russell went back to the Pope and said to his Holi ness, " I have a communication from Lord Russell, and when you leave Rome you will have an asylum at Malta," and he advised the Holy Father to leave Rome and go to Malta before he was compelled to do so. This matter had created a very ill feeling in France, as it was well calcu lated to do, seeing that it was an imputation that France could not adequately provide for the Holy Father, The noble lord had pronounced a warm eulogiurn upon the go vernment of Mazzini. Now, a more atrocious government never existed than that. The clergy in Ramo were mur dered wholesale by that government s mply because they were priests and ministers of religion. He could prove that the government of Mazzini was the most atrocious that had ever existed since the time of Robespierre. The noble lord had said that the population of Rome were averse to the Pope's government. He (Sir G.Bowyer) most emphatically denied that. Tho Romans were in a much better position than the inhabitants of the other parts of Italy. The former were taxed not 1-10th part of their neighbours, and they aid not suffer from the conscription, or the many other grievances that were imposed upon the Neapolitans. In Naples there were thousands of people in prison without any trial; many of them without having even been in formed of the charge on which they had been arrested, Several of those unfortunate prisoners were nearly naked and covered with ulcers. Fourteen towns in Naples, num bering upwards of 39,000 inhabitants, had been destroyed by the Piedmontese. The men that were called brigands were people who were struggling against a foreign dominion that was most galling and horrible to bear. These were the results of the Piedmontese conquest of Italy. This system of outrage and persecution was carried on under the moral support given it by the noble lord's Government. The state of things produced in Italy under the influence of the noble lord's Government caused that Government to be cursed by the population generally. The noble lord's Government would be cursed eternally as the destroyers of the civilisation and the rights s,f Italy. (Laughter.) lion. members opposite laugh at what he said because it was obvious that they knew nothing what ever of the subject. Their laugh was a laugh of ignorance. (Renewed laur,,hter.) What was the past history of Rome ? Look at the glorious days of the De Medici-- An bon. MEMBER—Look at the days of the Borgias. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. BOWYER—WeII, look at the days of .Borgia. He knew there had been sometimes bad Governments in Italy. He admitted there was one Burgia who was a bad man ; but was that a reason why the glories of Flo rence and of Genoa—why the works of the greatest artists and poets were to be ignored or destroyed ? What did the hon. gentleman mean, then, by talking of Borgia ? (Hear, hear.) If the French garrison were to be withdrawn from Rome to-morrow, and the Piedruontese prevented from marching into and taking possession of the country by force, he believed that the Papal government would be as safe and as stable as the Government of Queen Victoria. In the Turin Chambers the other day the Government was at tacked for not baying given sufficient encouragement to the revolutionary cause in Italy. Count Pepoli, while deny.. ing the charge, said that they should never have been able to overturn the Government at Bologna but for the assist.. ance of King Victor Emmanuel from his purse. The Minister had thus let out the secret of the revolutionary movement. Mr. WHALLEY here rose to order. He did not think that the hon. baronet was justified in making a statement of so grave a character affecting a foreign sovereign. Sir G. BOWYER maintained that he was perfectly in order in the course he had taken. He denied that Naples was governed by the King of Sardinia, because the whole nation almost was against him, and would never submit to be governed by the Piedmontese. Florence and the other countries which had been so violently brought under the iron heel of Piedmont were thoroughly disgusted and dis contented with the existing state of things. He must protest against the doctrine that what was called the Liberal party in Italy were entitled to Rome as their capital. They might with equal justice claim Constanti nople, because it was really the residence of the Emperors Justinian and Constantine. Rome never was really the capital of i taly—Rome was the mistress and conqueror of Italy. if they overturned the throne of Rome upon such pretences as those put forward, he would tell them that there would be no throne in Europe safe. Such a claim to ju stice. Mr. was an outrage upon civilisation and upon Mr. S. FITZGERALD thought the noble lord's speech remarkable for the dexterous way in which ho addressed h theremarkable sone fo t r ic in omis sions t ehouse wh which h ; characterised;but it w asstill t more r Ife there wa which was more than another important the Queen ,op s Speech, which above all others entered into the putlic mind of the country at this present moment, it was the struggle going on across the Atlantic; and yet the noble lord, notwith s t an di ng the vast injury which that struggle had inflicted on our cot • ton district, was silent on the topic. No one c ou ld rea d the account of what was passing in America without the deepest feelings of emotion and regret. It had formed the subj ec t of most important diplomatic communications with our neighbour and ally, and although the noble lord and the Government had taken, perhap s w i se l y, t h e gravest respon sibility in declining to accede to the proposel of the French to mediate in the contest, the noble lord, addressing the Commons of England for the first time this session, passed over the American war, the proposal made to the Govern ment by the French Emperor, and rather addressed himself in a light and jocular tone to other questions. H e altogether omitted any reference whatever to this, which was almost of paramount importance. Another omission from the Speech was the subject of Poland. When revolutions were going on in other parts of the world we found our Govern ment either taking them under their patronage or speaking with commiseration and sympathy of the sufferings which caused them, but when this subject of Poland was brought for ward by the hon. member for King's County, instead of sympathy with the Poles, the noble lord's speech was a speech of apology for the Russian Government, not a word of sympathy for the suffering Poles. There was a point of misrepresentation which he thought should be set right ; he meant with reference to the correspondence between the noble lord and the Court of Denmark. After a system of policy had been adopted by our Go vernment, suddenly, and without any reason what ever, that policy was changed to the very opposite, and the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs in a few lines traced a new constitution for Denmark. It having been the policy of England to support the weak against the strong, it being desirable and necessary for the peace of Europe that a strong Scandinavian Government should be formed, England was now taking a course which would weaken Denmark to the greatest passible extent. Then there was the cession of the lonian Islands. A policy more impolitic, more inexpedient, more unja s tifi a bl e, more con trary to th e i n t erests of this country, and more fatal to the peace of Europe, was never adopted by any Government of any country than the proposed cession of the lonian Islands. In 1814 the British Government made a repre sentation to Europe that six of the lonian Islands had come into our possession by conquest, and the seventh by ces sion; that they were of great importance and value to Europe, and on th e i r pos i t i on depended the tran quillity of the East; and the proposition of England was that the . islands s h ou ld b e placed under the protectorate of Austria. Ultimately, however, in 1815, the islands were placed under the protectorate of England. He was not fond of referring to " Hansard," because men might change their opinions; but he could not avoid referring to a speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer 18 or 20 months ago, on his return from Greece, to the effect that England must look to the fulfilment of the obligations she had con tracted to Europe; that her protectorate was not to be surrendered except to promote the peace of Europe. (Hear, hear.) The question then w as , no t w h et h er the cession of the islands to Greece would be for the benefit of Greece or in accordance with the wishes of the inhabitants of the islands, but whether, l oo king to the position of the island s , it was for interests of Europe that they should be surrendered by England, and to a people without a government a t a ll ? (Hear hear.) Both naval and military autho r iti es concurred with regard to the im portance of our retaining possession of these islands. The stolen despatch of Sir J. Young showed the importanceof the l on i an I slands in a military point of view. During the Russian war a Russian frigate and two corvettes that had been cruising in the Adriatic, rather than run the risk of passing Corfu, were sold at Trieste, thecrews being taken to St. Petersburgh' overland. (Hear.) . . The first Napoleon re garded Corfu as the key of the Adriatic, and opistered it the most important place ho could secure. If so, might not Corfu become equally important to some other aggres sive power ? Was this the moment to surrender such position to a nation absolutely without a Government, and in the throes of revolution ? The cession of the islands must in the long run be attended with fatal consequences to the Turkish empire. About twenty nrinths ago in that house the Chancellor of the Exchequer said he believed it would be nothing less than a crime against the safety of Europe to surrender the lonian Islands, and to substitute for a " Christian protectorate" a "Turkish domination." (Hear, hear.) The concluding observations of his right hon. friend (Mr. Disraeli) were deserving of attention. The corres pondence of this country with Foreign Powers had been carried on in a petulant, almost flippant and rude manner, and unless this were reformed it would be vain to talk of retrenchment. Mr. WHALLEY, referring to the speeches of the hon. members for Dundalk and King's County, said he trusted the house would allow him, when opportunity offered, to show the untrustworthiness of statements emanating from that quarter. The motion for the Address was then agreed to. The house adjourned at 10 minutes to 12 o'clock. MR. CHARLES DICKENS IN PARIS. Mr. Charles Dickens concluded the too brief series of his readings in behalf of the British charitable and Lancashire Relief Funds on Friday night. They all went off, as must have been anticipated from the effect of the first, admirably, leaving on the public an eradicable impression that his brilliant success in literature has de cidedly robbed the drama of a comedian who would have been an honour to the stage. In listening to Mr. Dickens it is impossible to se parate the intellectual character of the author from the " Reader," a feeling that immensely en hances the interest of his Readings—if, indeed, his spontaneous delivery and rapid assumptions of the diverse characters he introduces Can be called read ing. Every sketch he brings forward being drawn by his own genial pen, is naturally fide I up with a life and reality, the vivid effect of which is visible by its impression on the auditory. Thus, in the beautiful episode of " Little Dom bey," the description of the poor dying boy, with his day dreams of a brignter world, his child like but unutterably deep sffections, his love for his one friend on earth, bis sister, all told so simply but so touchingly by Mr. Dickens, produced an emotion throughout the whole crowded assembly, so strong as sometimes to break through all efforts to repress it. The narration of the little tale, breathing throughout a senti ment and purity almost divine, was given in a manner worthy of the writing;—higher praise we cannot bestow. The various humorous sketches were also very effective, but we must confess to something like indignation at finding oar justly popular friend Sam Weller so unhandsomely neglected. That sublime original, whose humour recalls Cervantes, Fielding, Swift, and even the higher spirit which gave us the immortal clown of Arden. Touchstone himself, we have but a glimpse of. This is rank injustice to the public, who are all Wellerites, and, we think, to the author himself, who has there the materials for whole dozens of lectures replete with wit, humour, end in struction. In taking leave of Mr. Dickens, and thanking him for these most agreeable soirees —the more charming from the kindly object in which they originated—it would be unjust to pass without due acknowledgment the general ex cellence of the arrangements, and the courtesy and attention displayed for the reception and accommo dai ion of the numerous auditory at the hotel of the Embassy.— Ga/ignani. COUNTRY MARKETS. BIRMINGHAM—FEB. 5. English wheat was sold at 488 to 56s for white, and 40s to 56s per 36 stone for red. Barley, new malting, 338 to 42s per qr; grinding, 24s to 28s. Oats, old, 24. to 30s per 30 stone; Irish, 22s to 255. Beans, 40s to 44s per qr. Peas, 40s to 48s per 36 stone. PLYMOUTH-FEB. 3. The corn market continues very dull, at former prices. —White, 56s to 60s; red, 54s to 66s per qr ; Dant z i c , 57 s to 68s ; American, 61s to 55s ; Spanish, --8 to — s ; Rus sian, —s to --s. Barley at previous rates-34s to 38s per qr for malting; grinding, 27s to 28s; oats, 23s tons; and beans, —s to ; flour, 38s to 41s Od. EDINBURGH GIVAIN—FEB. 4. A good supply of farmers' wheat to-day, which met a slow sale at is under the prices of this day week. Wheat on the top lOs Od up. average Is 4d up. Barley on the top is Od up .. average Os lld down. Oats on the top Os 6d down average Os 4d up. Beans on the top Os 9d up. ..average Os 3d down. Total Supply and Sales. _ Wheat ... 865 qrs Sold 688 qrs _ 8ar1ey........1770 qrs Sold sol6 921 161 q: r. Oats Beans 263 qrs Flour sells as follows :—Whites, 46s Od ; extras; 438 6d; superfine, 41s 6d ; fine, 39s 6d. CORK--FEB. 4. The following were the quotations this morning wheat, 6s dto9s 6d ; white, 7e 6d to Ileld , b ar ley, 69 6d to 7s 4d ; oats, 5s Gd to tis Od. ; new bere, Od to —8 Od. DERBY SMITHFIELD-FEB. 3. A good supply of fat beasts to-day, with a better demand for beef. Calves, pigs, and sheep were scarce. Beef 6d to 61d Veal . 7d to 71d Mutton .. 7ld to 81d Pork Lamb —d to —d Rough fat 4s Od per atone. Hides, 3d to 41d; c a lf skins, od to 6d. Bank of England Return.---Yesterday. An Account, pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth Victoria cap. 32, for the week ending on Wednesday, the 4th day t Feb., 1863: ISSUE DEPARTMENT. otes issued Government Debt £11,015,1C0 Other Securities .. 3.634,900 Gold Coin & Bullion 12,811,825 Silver Bullion .... £27,4111,825 £27,464,825 BANKING D oprietors' Capi tal X 14.553,000 Rest Public Deposits (in cluding Exche quer, Savings' Banks, Commis missioners of Na tional Debt, and Dividend Ac- .EPARTMENT. Government Seen- rities (including Dead Weight A nnuity) £10,60!,879 Other Securities 19,297,3 54 Notes Gold and Silver 877,31 1 Coln counts) 6,351,817 Other Deposits 13,352,278 Seven Day and other Bills 638,809 £38,17L824 £38,171, MILLER, Deputy Cashier. 824 Feb. 5, 1863. Foreign Mail Packet List MAILS DUE. A.ur.ralia and Mauritius, via Southampton Feb. 18. via Marseilles ... Feb. 12. Brazil and Cape Verds, by British packet. Feb. 3. Cape of Good Hope, Ascension, and St. Helena.. Mar. 3. China, Penang, and Singapore, via Southampton. Feb. 18. via Marseilles Feb. 12. Falkland Islands Gibraltar, via Southampton India (Calcutta), and Ceylon, via Southampton Feb. 18. via Marseilles Feb. 12. India (Bombay), via Southampton Feb. 10. via Marseilles Feb. 5. Portugal.... Feb. 3. Malta, Egypt, and Aden, via Southampton Feb. 10. via Marseilles Feb. 5. Newfoundland .. Feb, 4. Oporto and Vigo U. S. and British N. America, by Brit. packet.... Feb. 4. by U.S. packet.... by Canadian packet. Feb. 6. W.C. of Africa, Madeira, and Teneriffe Feb. 10. Bahamas, via New York ....Feb. 12. Mexico ....Feb. 28. All parts of West Indies, including Chili, Peru, I Feb. 13. California, and British Columbia. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Ointment and Pills— Outward Infirmities.—Before the discovery of these reme dies many cases of sores, ulcers, &c., were pronounced to be hopelessly incurable ; because the treatment d tended to destroy the strength it was income etent to pursue remove. Holloway's Pills exert the most wholesome powers over unhealthy flesh or skin without debarring the patient from fresh air and exercise • and thus the constitutional vigour is husbanded while the most malignant ulcers, abscesses, and skin diseases are in process of cure. Both Ointment and Pills make the blood richer and purer, instead of per mitting it to fall into that poor and watery state so fatal to many labouring under chronic ulcerations. Births. GAITSKELL.—On the 3d inst., at Weldon House, Chel tenham, the wife of Lieut.-Colonel J. G. Gaie skell, of son. JONASSOHN.—On the 4th inst., at 149, Sloane-street, Lon don, the wife of M. J. Jonasbohn, E sq., of St. Bede's enanotdth'Mr. 4 F. B. P ankhurst, of a son. e o f athsionn.t., at 17 , S outhampton-at., P As t t o ricatt u i s i d e u:R S tsh u Te n . Sunde r lan d , Marriages. MILLS—GILmouR.—On the 4th inst:, at Broadway, Wor cestershire,. John Retnicgton Mills, Esq , eldest sun of John Remington Mills, Esq., M.P., to Me y Ann, the on ly daughter of the late Charles Gilmour, Esq., o f Salisbury. SoIITHEY—MARSHALL—On the 4th inst., at St. Maryle" bone Church, George Locke Southey, Esq., of Kilburn, to Caroline Mary, the eldest daughter of the late W. B. Marshall, Esq. Deaths. BowNtAN.—On the 3d inst., at 67, Canning-street, Liver pool, Wm, B owman, Esq. Bitowx.—On the 2d inst ,at 10, Clarence-place, Regent's park, J oseph Brown, Esq. COOK, —On the 4th inst., at Falconer Lodge, Reading, Maria, relict o f the Rev. Joseph George C oo k, aged 0&_ , DAY ENPORT,—O n th e 4 t h inst. at Warwick_gardens Barr age Davenport, Es q ., aged 'B7. London : Printed and Published by WILLIAM ANDRNWO , of No. 112, St ran d , Printer, at THE SUN Office , 21°. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Sayoy, to the Count/ of Atiallefiexe—Friday. February kVA,.