The Sun. — London, England, 1830-03-19 00:00:00

a HOUSE OF LORDS—(LAST NIGHT). ee'• ..'' from Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition 'rum Chester, against the Monopoly of the East India • Company in the China Trade. The Mutiny Bills ~,,,1 , - Duties' 11:1/- At The Earl of FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from :xche- 1 tt certain place in Yorkshire praying for a revision of the __- eckon- Criminal Code, and the Abolition of Capital Punishment No. 11,705. LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING MARCH 19, 1830. , spirits. for Forgery.______________ -- e price L_-- The Earl of CAERNARVON presented a petition to - , . billing the same effect from Truro, in Cornwall. This petition, credit and great gratitude were due to him for what he there was no objection to taking the metal of lower value, urged against an inquiry at the bar of the House, were distress distil- he statCd, was signed by many persons of rank. had done, it must be regretted that he had not gone some- he felt bound to differ from bins. He was also compelled now urged against an inquiry by a Select Committee. Carrie, ' HuLllo,relcomKpliNaiGninpgresen-ted a petition from Kingston-on- what further, and reduced some of those taxes that now to dissent to the proposition of the Noble Duke, thinking In his opinion, many important things might be stated to ricer should , The san lEarl of distress, and praying for relief, pressed soheavily onthelabouring classes—thatadvantage from curtailed as he did that it could be productive of no a Select Committee as to the causes of distress ; whilst the their comforts—that contracted the amount of the articles the multifarious objects to which the inquiry must neces- individuals might he able to ascertain which admitted of II immit- • the ecof CAERNARVON presented a petition to t ' eight Manchester, t from the Merchants and Manufacturers tot' he consumed, and in that manner diminished the re- sarily be directed. If they granted a Committee, they would relief; which of alleviation, and which were beyond the ' all ne- tion was Si naesdsembled at a public meeting. This turns to commercial. enterprise. When he considered the be obliged to enter into the considerations of the currency, power of remedy. Ha had no hesitation in saying that uinbergof ? nch of the is by ten thousand persons; anh(ott the reasonet._ I he Pel distresses and privations of the working classes—that because the change in the currency had been mentioned as if inquiry were denied, it was no more nor less than r tioners were anxiousl many of them were obliged to live upon fourpence or one of the causes of the distress. They would also be total abandonment of all the duties of Parliament. 13, signatures was so limiteitl.woaes,tot before the Noble Duke be resePnted sixpence a day, he felt that every farthing of increased compelled to enter into the situation of the agricultural_ he had a confidence in the people of this country. T' to send (Richmond) • t u nd the liniaide the motion,p the cost in the necessary articles of life was a matter to and manufacturing interests—and into the whole state onot but well disposed in theirsu_er periodsthe% had done and notice of which stood on their Lordship,' table for dis- which their Lordships ought to grant their deliberate con- trade and of taxation, as it bore directly or indirectly t Englishmen could ff as orie; nor at the cession this night. The • • forth what they sideration. When he spoke of the necessary articles of the productive classes. In a word, he consideredtat the they have borne their suffering, but: would a love petitioners set vested , etrecenowneudtrt°y, haendthecause. of the present distresses of life, he meant not. to re-agitate the question of the duties of the Committee would be of so extensive a nature, Constitution which they knew sooner I may the moat aPPrO r. also suggest— w ..,1 bat appeared to them Corn Laws, which, after years of discuseion, had now that in the end it could be ofno possible use, and he would, make them happier than any other people in had been been set at rest. But there were other articles of life of therefore, vote against it. He had guarded himself against any thing ec.ts in suggeeted...one was p late!, remedies. Two redmedoi e late- ; another was the redutetiooopetnoin that tf thshtekttrae o.et China,remedies and considerable, though not, perhaps, of equal importance-- The Earl of MANSFIELD rose to give his cordial lead to a supposition that he was a friend in 1791. Theynrincompv lhaiinnhed of which it tood he meant tea and sugar. Tea, at least such tea as the la- support to the motion. It was contended that the in- of the present system of Government. an enor- bouring classes drank, which was generally under 2s. a quiry would be interminable. This was asserted broadly, however, that an alteration of the currer been mous standinga duty of 96 per cent. ; while sugar, which but there was, perhaps, a latent objection to the effect, that some relief. It was extraordinary th revenue of the country,army, welch andswallowedt.eePmg uuPch of the pound, paid respect, ond als prayedof a reductionsom of the in bond cost 255. paid a duty of 275., or a tax of above they might inquire without possessing the possibility of county, Northumberland, the poor rat' -arcs in that in the sale.- 100 per cent. But in discussing the effects of taxation on affording relief. They all allowed there was some distress. shilling and sixpence in the pound, w redactionfur u al) ries and allowancs of public officers,or and generally in the the production of industry, he could not omit to mention He would therefore say that they were all bound to dis- _ southern counties they were as high . . amount of expenditure There was the articles of soap and candles ; the last especially was of cover the nature and extent of this distress, and to see if the pound. He could very easily i of every description. one circumstance connectedwith this petition to which he much importance to the poor man, who was often up be- there were not remedies which could be applied. He had small notes would no more stay • t the delivering thing else.—(A laugh.) In tb Da. ad. - was desirous particularly •ofthe House, fore daylight,and working after it had become dark, and to not the advantage of having been present a to call the attention W 33 0 and that was, that it didcontain a word of corn. whom, therefore, a reduction of the price of candles must of the King's Speech. He was, however, in common with people were too far north for t• Plaint and invective,- not . . angry 82 3 nor did it recommend unions of menbe mostbeneficial,He would not , - others, surprised to find the public distress so lightly men- paged better than to want, sr :at 0 for in the nisters said they should no' Purposes which had a tendency to produce revolutions tion ; but if he were to do pro, it would be more with a tioned. At the same time he allowed, that perhaps . al 0 and 30 9 the subversion of the laws. view of ascertaining what were the taxes that pressed most writing of that Speech, those light touches had, perhaps, alterations of the currency 29 0 4r4 WHARNCLIFFE presented petition from a heavily, and whether their might not be a commutation of cost these Ministers more labour and difficulty than any of their effeets upon contra 20 0 , certain place in Yorkshire, •thea Monopoly in some of them. He was sure that if he could go into de- the other parts of that composition.—(Laughter.)—This changes amounted to a against 22 9 China Trade. 32 0 tail, and show the Noble Duke that a commutation of Speech was, of course, understood to be the Speech of his He denied that he w St 6 Lord MORLEY presentedpetition praying a Revision taxes might be adopted, the Noble Duke would be most Majesty's Ministers, and taking it as such, and considering 1797; all that he 1 26 0 of the Criminal Code. a ready to avail himself of the suggestion, and would do the meeting at which it was agreed to (he would not say people should not,' 33 9 The everything in his power to diminish the burden that now discussed), this might, perhaps, upon the authority of an any longer than t' x 33 9 Marquis of BUTEpresented • • from Port- a petition Glas 33 ~, . gow, against the China 'Monopoly. pressed on the people. The ,Noble Duke saw that the old proverb, in some degree account for the misrepresents- But by the Bill 33 6 The state of the country demanded this, and he besides saw times of the state of the country, which it contained. the debtor was 24 0 Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions corn 31 6 plainingdistress,• relief, various places that the consumption of articles always so much increased "Un hemme riche, quand it a hien dine, voit tout le monde in payment v in Sur . and praying from as owhen the duty on them was diminished, that the public heureux."—(Laughter and cheers.)—Notwithstanding the quent Act • 29 o rey, Lincoln, Buckingham, and other counties. The II • 21,1 6 Jarquis ofLANSDOWNE presented a petition from • ' c revenue suffered no loss whatever from the reduction. It Ministerial statement, however, the distress was severe bank note' the • 22 0 parish of Dursley, in Gloucestershire, complaining of was always with great regret that he trespassed on their and general, and he would say, that the patience with issued ur distress and the hurthen of the poor laws. He presented Lordships' time, but more particularly so when the matter which it had been endured, was indeed wonderful. This the pub another from Frome, in Soruersetshire, against the China en which he had to speak regarded himself personally; but proceeded, in his opinion, from no confidence in his Ma- make Trade Monopoly, his anxiety to place his conduct in a right point of view jesty's Ministers. For the endurance of the Administra- debt tEEK• ___—.-- All these petitions were laid on the table. on this occasion must be his excuse. He had been tion was looked to as the National Debt, or any other en, beans. charged with inconsistency, in having contradicted grievance. He did not say this as one partaking in this v __........• DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. by his actions out of doors that which he had said opinion, or as one entertaining the contrary; he merely , tr. The Duke of RICHMOND—The object he had in view . 42 in that House—he meant upon the subject of the ens- mentioned it as a prevalent feeling. He knew, however, ▪ 52 Was that a Select Committee should be appointed to exa- ployment of paupers in workhouses. It was assumed that he: would not be misunderstood in that House, and h ▪ 53 aline into the state of the country, and the causes of the . 54 he had connived at the practice of employing them in knew he should never find it necessary to shield his or ▪ 40 Present distress, and to consider what were the proper re- drawing carts. He could assure their Lordships he opinions under the form of those of another.—(ll 40 tnedies. There was something unexampled in the present had never done so. The only instance of this kind which hear, hear.)—But to resume ;he attributed this . 42 calamitous condition in which the perhaps somewhat over . 40 had come to his knowledge, and had fallen within his ju- ranee upon the part of the distressed people to that ▪ teo grown population of this country was at present employed; .56 and unless means s nt risdiction as a Magistrate, was this :—Some men came to courage so often praised, but never too freque', should be adopted to ascertain with as him at Bognor, nine miles from his residence, and said that highly—and he also attributed it to that increas 51 much precision as possible the causes which have led to . 42 this de lo there were paupers harnessed to carts, drawing sand from nion sense, which prevented them from bei ▪ 44 p rabic result, with a view to the application of - He the followinghHe f • the path ofduty andof loyalty 1 - the the sea shore. met them on day. e from 50 the ro 42 p per remedies, there was reason to fear that the teas rh •ofthe M• • t I h •would do 1• b • t. t • (II ) Tlpeople now I • s Chairman - tom orators.—(Hear.)—The ois.— ear. se . 44 c)Lisequence would be the dissolution of society—a cala- then Magistrates and himself the justice to say that they liatnent alone, and this because they well • • 44 mtty which was now threatening. That the working examined into the matter, and that when they found they body anxious to inquire into their drew . 48 classes of the country had fallen into a state of unexampled . 44 wretchedness had no legal means of preventing that abuse, they remon- promote their interests They knew, t' - 46 ss and degradation, he thought abundantly strated with the overseers on the subject, and they ex- fered themselves to be betrayed into F ▪ 40 clear. In order to bring to their Lordships' attention peeled that their remonstrances would have been effectual ; acts of violence, the injury was sure zoi i more directly the depressed called forstate of the country, he had but he was sorry to have learnt that since that time the selves, and that they were neutralis returns from various places of different counties, same system had been resorted to, and indeed he had him- friends and advocates. This state .to d. as to the condition of the lower orders, and the numbers self seen two carts, with four men each, attended by what to the individual Minister, but F , 0 of those obtaining parish relief. He had got 41 returns, they 5 8 . Which were on their calledforeman, but ire calltheir gratulation to th • 5 6 I°f . Lordship? table, and were deserving driver.—(Hear, hear.) He pledged his honour for the the Government arid Constitu' ) otheir most earnest _ attention. These returns contained truth of what he had said, as to this practice; and asked —(Cheers.)—ln looking, 6 ' 7 comparative view of the state of the poorer classes, their Lordships whether they would not do their utmost to loyalty of the people, it s' '4ld the number of paupers in the several parishes prevent the continuance of a practice which must have in the season of distr at the present t. 3 0 1 6 • That was the period immediately after the panic, and a other night from the Noble Duke at the head of the Go- compel them to tak, tiniewhen 1 0 , the state of the country was supposed to be at vernment, that if England should be again called on to go to sideration.—(Hear, 0 ;re-water mark, and at the lowest state of depression. I o war, she was in as efficient a state as ever to resume a mili- appeared to argue t" 1 whole of the returns deserved the best consideration 'and, of t • tar station; but did their Lordships believe that if our placed on an exa' ___....— heir Lordships •; but he particularly requested their armiesY were to be composed of men degraded as those men being themselves attention to the returns from Andover, Congleton, Co- were—who must have lost their ancient English spirit— the case ?In 3m tire veitry, Manchester, Macclesfield, and Leeds, as these did they believe, he asked, that if their Peninsular army resplendent v re have - might be considered as the capitals of their several dis- bad been composedofsuch ifthey had been and loaded • men, even rded an triers. Coventry . was one of those places which was con- sulered under the command of the greatest General of this or any stood by t' as the least distressed ; and yet their Lordships preceding age, they would have stormed Ciudad Rodrigo appeared rof last ~ Would find by the returns, that even the state of Coventry, or "sada! jos—they would have scaled the Pyrennees, have gate, t' but no ' as well as that of the other places, had been regularly de- overthrown the enemy ,at Waterloo, and finally, as they tenon' of this dining, from 1132 G down to the present time. He ob- had done, have planted the standard of England in the scio, ly high served that in a speech of Mr. Herries, which somehow capital of France? He could not but answer that ques- the but no or other had found its way into the newspapers, upon the tion in the negative ; and he could not but feel that if they _ lee, for 1 authority of Mr. Goods, Leeds was in a flourishing con- once allowed the people of this country to be degraded, e with- 1 dition, and that the distress was partial ; but their Lord- their national honour, almost their national existence, or new i ships would see from the return that in those places where must cease. He intended to have gone further into thi' a small h there was said to be the least distress, that these had been subject, but he felt unable at present to do so. He f irt late I declining in the most serious degree from 1826 down to less regret at the omission, as be knew it would be an rd rape- i the present time. The returns were themselves facts, and supplied by those wino would follow him. The 7 re, did not leave the matter to opinion. The returns proved Duke concluded by moving for a Select Committee ids. eos, that the distress was not partial, as the sentiments of the i into the —I. —B. quire would seem to indicate ; • linister and if such was the con -I. 28e.0f the working classes,andthe effect of taxa' —8.26 x• dition of the districts supposed to be flourishing, what • • .-8, must be the state of those which were universally allowed productive industry. As. Vs. Earl BATHURST said that if the Noble P to be in a situation of depression approaching to the starve s. eluded his speech by simply moving for )88.34a. tion pitch ?By these returns he had proved that great ...11. —B, distress did exist in the country; and if that fact should mittee to inquire into the administration c it.. 23e. be denied, it would h• • ese had no opposition from h xd. M. it would be incumbent on the Ministers to give indeed strong grounds for such a measv •••••••••••••=l6 better reasons for their conclusions than any they had Yet ever for the inquiry now demander' given. From 1826, the period when the depression was d. s. d. Duke referred 0 to 0 0 Supposed to be at its lowest, he had proved that there had to the returns made d )0 0 4 been a rapid though silent progress downwards to the pre-of he ought torecollect that the last 4 ) 4 0 5 unusual severity, they must nr sent time, till the distress had reached the starvation itch, 5 4 0 12 0 4 and that there were some causes or otherwhich P Another thing the Noble Duk preyed on of ) 7 0 g the very vitals of industry.notion payments into the s' As to the state of wages, there having referred to the ietu was a plan in some places of paying in goods instead of of di:tress, it would see.rr 7 pro- money, which was very disagreeable to the men ; but what aware hat the difference re ed, eon- t should be done as to that he was not d prepare to tions in the law, whi ong the "Y, as it was proper to abstain as much as possible from have more than 2001. ' ' ail con- Interfering between master and workman. Another mea sure well deserving of consideration was Mr. Slane 's excel- The returns, there' ning not Bible lenth i proposal for amending the poor laws. :t was impos- distress. The inc in their e that the poor laws should continue as they were. The the most extensit ul send- amount of ' poor 3 rates was constantly increasing ; and such an unli novel in wizen it was l ," as considered as a constantly increasing tax, and things, it wr history now much more the South of England was affected by it that never c' I! I I than the North, and that the people could no longer suffer led d gehis • under the burdensome duty,hethought oneous to avoid the evil but by an inquiry, in which they would could he ,rdipary be able to see whether the admitristration of these laws was sion w• ndfather not more demos l• • • • Ilesham- n.r ,as , a ising in its effects on the people than be- sible, is a fact tislaurlcitht teat them. If there was no other injury produced pre' the late and the bto one of the overwhelming competition of labour n, unt th t the pro- en but inquiry, y a produced it, be should say there was / eugn tor to • alone is, Lords, but h quiry. It might be unpleasant to some Noble e felt it • eat. Irish labourers his duty to say that the irruption of into this ................ poor's rites here afforded country was a great grievance. T 1 orded would not place restrict' a bounty on this irruption. try of Irish labourers ; bio on immigration into this c eaviside, here, ut if they would speculate on c he thought thepl speculation should be at th ; he would ne Infir- • ' footin place them in this country on g on 11. D., of i Engliehman w Wow.,hich they were in England, or or I an Irishman should incapacitate in Ireland. The fact c yof H. i receiving parish relief and him in this at parish ex and from being pass laid pense. He had in his ham' before a Committee Mr. H. i Committee, that was calls ttee, nther • er of the : wer }Parsed f eit was stated 20 , fiveeroil' the county of Lanes Mr. 11. than if that they had b they had been been passe' till, the frauds we • sent by the no Brown- were i were committed by these • labouroi Possession of funds w' n this cou t igh-row, conveyed back n ry, they ye Bevis, of order that the again, and prr, ment of their Y might recur ith, after facts reco earnings, rae feed, the same a,m •nnded -; ta at ' tensive distrtessg 48,,„'n, 7 ersmith. was to be foundnion-' d-street- the Savings' Raul ,'.' e Fellow country. The clay the classes of tr ii Philip, were dirninishi day pre- given upon ti, .lie road, amounted t ft actured 1,4'14,937 sums pal out to ' itchener, paid e that if Fleet- liar ears ma • b• Clinch, cc, who, s obliged Press. —...... iNG, Al Ifti • lup of the mmsnerein connections which had been formed during the wyar, and the shutting of come markets and the opening Of others, especially in the New World, added to some bad seasons whirls hail occurred. The motion was brought forward at a strange time, and under the most ex traordinary state of parties he ever witnessed. What was the state of parties? There was on the one hand those who he would call moderate Whigs, and they called out fur free trade and metallic currency. On the other hand, there were th e Ultra Tories, and they exclaimed " No Free Trade !—no Metallic Currency ! Do not talk of these things, for they are grievances !" And yet differing as they did so much from each other, both called for inquiry. He certainly could not hut consider this as a mo,t un wholesome state of parties, and yet such was the way in which this motion was supported. He did not see how the inquiry could be attended with any advantage, and he saw clearly that it would be productive of a great deal of mischief. by exciting expectations among many classes of the community which could not be realised. The Marquis of SALISBURY observed, that the Noble Duke who spoke last said that the distress fell with least weight on the labouring classes, as they were entitled to be HOUSE OF LORDS—(LAST NIGHT). The Earl of SHAFTESBURY presented a petition from Chester, against the Monopoly of the East India Company in the China Trade. The Mutiny Bills and the Personal Estates and Offices Duties' Bills were committed. Mr. Danvers, from the East India House, presented papers relative to the Company's Trade to China. The Earl of FITZWILLIAM presented a petition from certain place in Yorkshire, praying for a revision of the Criminal Code, and the Abolition of Capital Punishment for Forgery. The Earl of CAERNARVON presented a petition to the same effect from Truro, in Cornwall. This petition, he stated, was signed by many persons of rank. Lord KI NG presented a petition from Kingston-on- Hull, complaining of distress, and praying for relief. The Ea r l o f CAERNARVON presented a petition to the same effect from the Merchants and Manufactuiers of l " che ster, asse m bl e d at a pu bli c mee ti ng . Thi s peti tion was signed by ten thousand persons ; and the reason the number o f s i gnatures was so limited was, that the peti ti"ers were anx i ous to send it up in time to be presente d before the Noble Duke (Richmond) made the motion, the notice of which stood on their Lordships' table for dis cussion this night. The petitioners set forth what they conceiv e d to be the causes of the present distresses of country, and a l so suggested what appeare d to t h em thee most appropriate remedies. Two remedies had been suggestede—one was the op e ning of the trade to China, and another was the reduction to that state in which it stood In 179], They complained of the keeping up an enor mous standing army, which swallowed up so much of the revenue of the country, and prayed for a reduction of the taxes in that respect, and also for a reduction in the sala ries and allowances of public officers, and generally in the amount of expenditure Of every description. There was one circumstance connected with this petition to which he Was desirous particularly to call the attention of the House, and that was, that it did not contain a word of angry com plaint and invective, nor did it recommend unions of men for purp oses w h ich had a tendency to produce revolutions and the subversion of the laws. certai n Lnr il WHAIINCLIFFE presented a petition from a China Trade. lace in York s hi re , aga i ns t t h e M ono p o ly i n th e Lord MORLEY presented a petition praying a Revision of the Criminal Code. The Marquis of BUTE presented a petition from Port- Glasgow, against the China Monopoly. The Duke of RICHMOND presented petitions com plaining of distress, and praying relief, from various places in Sur reys Lincoln, Buckingham, and other counties. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from the parish of Dursley, in Gloucestershire, co mplaining of distress an d the hurthen of the poor laws. He presente d another from Frome, in Soruersetshire, against the China Trade Monopoly. All these petitions were laid on the table. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 19, 1830. sckon apirits. e price billing distil- No. 11,705. PRICE 7D. urged against an inquiry at the bar of the House, were now urged against an inquiry by a Select Committee. In his opinion, many important things might be stated to a Select Committee as to the causes of distress ; whilst individuals might be able to ascertain which admitted of relief, which of alleviation, and which were beyond the power of remedy. He had no hesitation in saying that if inquiry were denied, it was no more nor less than a total abandonment of all the duties of Parliament. But he had a confidence in the people of this country. They were well disposed in their periods of distress, and none but Englishmen could suffer as they had done ; nor could they have borne their suffering, but from a love of that Constitution which they knew would sooner or later make them happier than any other people in the world. He had guarded himself against any thing that could lead to a supposition that he was a friend to a change of the present system of Government. He thought, however, that an alteration of the currency might afford some relief. It was extraordinary that in his native county, Northumberland, the poor rates were only at one shilling and sixpence in the pound, whilst in some of the southern counties they were as high as twenty shillings in the pound. He could very easily account for this, for the small notes would no snore stay in Scotland than any thing else.—(A laugh.) In that part of the country, the people were too far north for the southerns, and they ma paged better than to want small notes merely because Mi nisters said they should not have them, Considering the alterations of the currency since 1797, he should say that their effeets upon contracts made in the interval of those. changes amounted to a violation of honesty and good faith. He denied that he was an introducer of the measure of 1797; all that he had then done was to propose that people should not be relieved from paying creditors in gold any longer than there was a necessity for it.—(A laugh.) But by the Bill of 1797, although the power of arresting the debtor was taken away, yet gold could be demanded in payment when execution was sued out. It was a sub quent Act which obliged creditors to take payment in bank notes. He now thought that small notes might be issued under proper regulations, without any detriment to the public interests. It was advisable, he thought, to make bankers' estates chargeable for their simple contract debts, but it would be necessary to know what were the embarrassments previously upon them. He recollected when this country was at peace with Spain, and the Parliament of England was passing Acts to prevent men enlisting in the South American armies. At that time British subjects were sending large sums of money to those colonies, before they had been re cognised as Independent States by the Sovereign of this country, and they were likewise sending out goods ; but unless he was very much mistaken, all these transactions had proved more or less disastrous ; but this was the fault of the individuals, and let them suffer; it would teach them that capitalists ought to employ their capital as much as possible to the improvement of their own country; and if they sent their capital to foreign States, they must take upon themselves the blame and the consequences which they wished to throw upon Parliament. In the disturbances that took place in 1792, 1793, 1791, and 1795, the affections of the great body of the people were not disturbed by the dis tresses which oppressed them, for they saw that Parlia ment was anxious to relieve them ; and they therefore concurred in those wars which Parliament, by their con currence, was enabled to support, and by the support of which the Noble Duke opposite had made himself so illus trious. The state of England was like a great and glo rious pillar—the people formed its base; then cause those of a little higher rank ; then still a little higher, until it reached the apex, on which stood the Monarch of the country. if the distresses of those who formed the basis of that pillar were entirely neglected, he need not tell the House what would ensue. There was not an Englishman of that class that was not enduring, in the most exemplary manner, distresses difficult to conceive, and too painful for him to describe; and he thought the people were entitled to have those distresses patiently and carefully investigated by their Lordships. _ _ _ distress was by no means general, let the motion be carried, and an opportunity would be afforded of ascertaining beyond contradiction the real condition of the people, and the true extent of the distress.— He was quite convinced that the distress of the country had been long gradually increasing, and he was sure, if the Noble Marquis (Camden) would but examine the real state of the county over which he presided as Lord Lieu tenant, lie would find that distress prevailed to an extent and to a degree unequalled in the memory of inan e He (Lord Winchilsea) resided in Kent himself—once a most flourishing agricultural county—and he had been told on good authority that there were farms now occupied there for which no real value was paid.—(Hear, hear.)—He had also heard from an acting Magistrate of the same county, that some of his tenants had raid him no rent for the last seven years : one of those tenants came to him not long ago, and placing a sum of money on the table said—" There is part of what I owe you ; but if you take that I shall not have a farthing left to crop your land, and it must go out of cultivation." In that part of Kent where he (Lord Winchilsea) resided, that most respectable body constituting the connecting link between the higher and the lower orders—the inde pendent freeholders—had been so seriously injured in their circumstances, that within the last six or seven years half of them had been obliged to dispose of their property, and the half of what remained, as he was informed, was at present on sale. He could not contemplate such a state of affairs without being aware that if something were not done, every link that bound society together would be broken asunder.—(Hear, hear.)—lie wished he could co incide in the opinion expressed by some Noble Lords, that the country at large felt confidence in the present Ministers, but he could not shut his eyes to what had passed at a late meeting, where he bad been present, and where anything but confidence in Ministers had been expressed. And here he begged leave to observe, with reference to what had fallen from the Noble Marquis who spoke last, that he had been no party to the calling of that meeting, and that he did not wish that it should be held for the purpose of back ing his opinions, or supporting his hostility to the present advisers of the Crown. He was not anxious to displace the Noble Duke; and sure he was, in the present circum stances of the country, that the situation of its Prime Minister was far from enviable. Neither did he attribute the present state of the country to the mis-government of the Adminstration now at the head of public affairs. He went much farther back—to times to which be should not attempt to fatigue their Lordships by endeavouring to trace it. As to the late meeting in Kent, he might say that he had been averse to it, although, having been called he never would separate himself from the great body of the freeholders. He implored the House to give its support and approbation to the motion of his Noble Friend. should Immit- ' eight all ne nch of provided for out of the land. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM begged leave to set the Noble Marquis right. What he had said was, not the 14... nd the bourers had a right to be maintained out of the land, but that by the mode of administering the poor laws they were made to believe that they had such a right. The Marquis of SALISBURY—But at any rate the Noble Duke did not admit the full effect of the distresses at the vested y may ects in e inte- of the country on the poor, and yet he had written a letter of advice on the subject to the Magistrates of the county of which he was Lord Lieutenant, containing the soundest beets views and maxims. The Noble Duke said the distress was not such as called for inquiry--and yet, if inquiry was not necessary, why had he written a letter of advice to the Magistrates as to their conduct, which proceeded on the supposition that the pocrer classes were labouring under severe distress, and which therefore was an indirect admission that inquiry was proper and necessary ? It had been said that there were no Parliamentary returns on the table to form a proper ground for a motion of this kind. He had been at pains to make inquiries as to the state f the parishes in his county-, and he had ascertained that the number of those who could not get employment formed 6-4- per cent. on the male population, and of the male popula tion between the ages of fifteen and seventy, 3 per cent. and supposing this to be a fair average of the kingdom, there were 170,000 able-bodied men who could not get employment. This was calculated on the state of the poor on the Ist of March, which was a fair time, as the num- ber might be supposed to be much less than it was in the course of the last winter, which was a long and remark- ably severe one. If he was right, or anything like right, this formed an alarming state of things, and the condition of the poor was one which imperatively called fur inquiry. He thought the gratitude of the country was due to his Majesty's Ministert , for what they had already done in the way of the reduction of taxation, and he believed that they had it. But still he was convinced that the state of the 1086. 7EEK• -_.....-- 3eant. -..... poor was such as imperatively to call for inquiry, and herefore he must vote for the motion. The Earl of WICKLOW—A noble relative of his had, on the other night, brought the subject of the Irish poor under their Lordships' consideration, and he (Lord Wick low) had then given it as his opinion that it was proper that their Lordships should take into consideration the state of the Irish poor, with a view to the introduction of some system of poor laws into that country. But the . . - . .. motion now before their Lordships related to a state of things of an entirely different description. There the evil was a deep and permanent one, and imperatively demanded a remedy. But here, the distresses fo which the present motion referred were merely temporary, and, lie hoped, would soon pass away. So that there was no inconsis tency in supporting a measure of inquiry in the one case, And opposing it in the other. That the country was in a state of distress was acknowledged by all, and his Ma jesty's Ministers had not been unmindful of it. As to the . to d. 1 6 5 0 5 6 ) 0 5 6 existence of the distress all were unanimous; but there was a great difference of opinion as to the causes and extent of it, and as to the remedies to be applied. The distress, he believed, arose from peculiar circumstances, which were of a temporary nature, and he bad no doubt that the dia- trees was also of a temporary nature, and that better times for the labouring classes would soon recur. As to the extent of the distress, a great deal of severe remark had been made on the word partial, which was found in his 3 0 1 6 1 0 i 0 1 0 ,and. Majesty's Speeeh. It was highly creditable to Mini sters that nothing better could be found to say against then► than this minute criticism about a word. But it would not much alter the matter, although the ne gative form had been used, and his Majesty had been made to say that the distress was not general. A abort time since, there was a good deal of wit displayed on the word " untoward," which was used in one of the Speeches from the Throne, but he really thought that all such observations were for the most part thrown away.— The quarrel in this instance was with a word in the affirmative, but he had no doubt that the Ministers would have been willing to have inserted a negative in its place, and instead of calling the distress "partial," to have de scribed it as " not general" and in that phrase he should have agreed, because he believed that the Ministers were the best judges of the real state of the country at the time the Speech was framed. Fie had seen gentlemen from different parts of the country, and from them he under stood that the distress was not general ; and in the county where he resided, he knew that it was by no means gene ral.—(Hear, hear.) He declared that in his belief it was not so general as usual in that county.—Cllear.)— No doubt the grazing farmers there were suffering from the want of renunerating prices, but the agricultural DM the re hoe 3ded an ualitiee r of lut but no of thir ly high but no lee, for e with or new a small ,rt late Id rape- V3A. 604. —I. —B. —S. 2135. —B. 245. —B. 4,. Vs. —a. —3. ?Ss. 346. - —B. 14a. 286. 331. 291. farmers had no reason to complain. The great - question, however, was, was the distress likely to be permanent 2— There was one species of the present distress which was more permanent than any other; but if the only mode of relieving that was by tampering with the currency, he thought that it ought to remain permanent. He meant the distress whirl caused the present reduction of rents.— (Hear, hear.) It was impossible that they could continue at their former rate; and when every thing else had sunk in value, it was natural that rents should follow. No doubt, this was a circumstance to be lamented ; but the laws of the country ought not to be altered ; and be therefore trusted that the Ministers would remain firm in their present determination, and not admit of any measure that would tend to alarm the feelings of the country, which, be believed, would be the case, if the Noble Duke's motion were carried. d. s. d. otoo9 04 ) 4 0 5 4 0 0 19 04 ) 7 09 ry pro ed, eon ong the ail con- is intle ning not in their ul sena novel is history I ! Dneous )rdinary ndfatlzer Ilesitam is a fact the late the pro alone is, ent. eaviside, ne Infir 11. D., of y of H. Mr. N. er of the Mr. H. rah, the Brown- igh-row, Bevis, of ith, after ersmitli. d-strect e Felloet ti Philip, day pre ilic road, Fractured itchener, )f Fleet ears ma. Clinch, ce, who, s obliged Press. ING, AT The Duke of RICHMOND—The object he had in view Was that a Select Committee should be appointed to exa- Mine into the state of the country, and the causes of the Present distress, and to consider what were the proper re medies. There was something unexampled in the present calamitous condition in which the perhaps somewhat over grown population of this country was at present employed; and unless means should be adopted to ascertain with as much precision as possible the causes Which have led to this deplorable result, with a view to the application of the proper remedies, there was reason to fear that the esnsequence would be the dissolution of society —a cala mity which was now threatening. That the working classes of the country had fallen into a state of unexampled wretchedness and degradation, he thought abundantly clear. In order to bring to their Lordships' attention more directly the depressed state of the country, he had called for returns from various places of different counties, as to the condition of the lower orders, and the numbers of those obtaining parish relief. He had got 41 returns, Which were on their Lordships' table, and were deserving of their most earnest attention. These returns contained comparative view of the state of the poorer classes, and the number of paupers in the several parishes at the present time, compared with their condition in 1828. That was the period immediately after the panic, and a tinie when the state of the country was supposed to be at 1 °W -water mark, and at the lowest state of depression. The whole of the returns deserved the best consideration of their Lordships ; but he particularly requested their a ttention to the returns from Andover, Congleton, Co ventry, Manchester, Macclesfield, and Leeds, as these might be co ns id ere d as t h e cap i ta l s o f t h e i r several dis tricts. Coventry was one of those places which was con sidered as the least distressed ; and yet their Lordships Would find by the returns, that even the state of Coventry, as Well as that of the other places, had been regularly de clining, from 182 G down to the present time. He ob served that in a speech of Mr. Herries, which somehow or other had found its way into the newspapers, upon the authority of Mr. Goods, Leeds was in a flourishing con dition, and that the distress was partial ; but their Lord ships would see from the return that in those places where there was said to be the least distress, that these had been declining in the most serious degree from 1826 down to the present time. The returns were themselves facts, and did net leave the matter to opinion. The returns proved that the distress was not partial, as the sentiments of the Minister would seem to indicate ; and if such was the con dition of the districts supposed to be flourishing, what must be the state of those which were universally allowed to he in a situation of depression approaching to the starva tion pitch ? By these returns he had proved that great distress did exist in the country; and if that fact should be denied, it would be incumbent on the Ministers to give better reasons for their conclusions than any they had yet given. From 1826, the period when the depression was supposed to be at its lowest, he had proved that there had been a rapid though silent progress downwards to the pre sent time, till the distress had reached the starvation pitch, and that there were some causes or other which preyed on the very vitals of industry. As to the state of wages, there was a plan in some places of paying in goods instead of money, which was very disagreeable to the men ; but what should he done as to that he was not prepared to 'ay, as it was proper to abstain as much as possible from interfering between master and workman. Another mea sure well deserving of consideration was Mr. Slaney's excel lent proposal for amending the poor laws. :t was impos sible that the poor laws should continue as they were. The amount of poor's rates was constantly increasing; and when it was considered as a constantly increasing tax, and how much more the South of England was affected by it than the North, and that the people could no longer suffer under the burdensome duty, he thought there was no way .to avoid th e ev i l but by an inquiry, in which they would be able to see whether the administration of these laws was not more demo ra li s i ng i n i ts effects on the people than be neficial to them. If there was no other injury produced than that on e o f the overwhelming comp e titi on o f l a b our L en d IT bounty that produced it, he should say there was Loan" for i nqu i ry. It might be unpleasant to some N o bl e 'di , ' but he f e l t i t his duty to say that the irrupti on o f Irish labourers into thi s country was a great grievance. The poor's rites here afforded a b ounty on t hi s i rrupt i on. He would not place restriction on immigration into this coun try of I r i s h labourers ; but if they would speculate on coming here, he thought the speculation should be at their own peril ; he wlvolu,iled. place them in this country on the same footing on Engli s h man Wo _ ll „they were in England, or on which an an Irishman si __Lui . be in Ireland. The fact of his being receiving " mil d . incapacitate him in this country from at laid before parisha relief and from being passed back again parish expense. He bad in his hand the particulars He that was called Lord Stanley's Committee, where it was stated 20,418 Irish paupers were passed from fi ve years , that the county of Lancaster alone, in the last than if h at they had been passed at an expense greater ,they had been sent by the mail coach. The grossest ',rvaeureusitisveroe committed by these persons; for though they labour i,iptis,isession of funds which they had obtained by conveyed backs again, they yet applied to the parishes to be order th the again, and pretended the utmost distress, in ment fatheir e y a might secure to themselves the full enjoy- The Committee who stated these facts recommended that the Irish here should be put upon the same e es • tensive distre t' s n s g as in Ireland. Another plod of the ex ults to be foutia n i " ' Prevailing in every part of England the Savings' The els tan n the lessened amount of stuns paid into country. hs established in different parts of the the classes of m m e s re w i 11 ° Put money into Savings' Banks, like were dinainishin given upon this g ints, shipowners, and manufacturers, 'eir capital every day. From the return , subject, • a mounted to 449 ty be found, in 1829, the sums paid in 1 ,444,9 375. , 493 /, and the sums paid out amounted to sums paidin a t: the early part of the present year, the out to 117,5 toioulmed to 9 2,7511., and the sums paid paid out of 21, 7 , 2 ' s Zving a baiance on the side of the sums that the Savings' Eminent did somethi tan From these returns it was evident hs could not last longer, sinless Par buted to them. which regardedne ne ng to relieve the classes who contri tion,carne to the last part of the mo longer his intention tribe effect s of taxation. It was no after the reduction rna,l Y much stress on that part appear a little ungracioue the Noble Duke, it would ships to press him furthers and ungenerous in their Lord bt:'t Present. But though great credit and great gratitude were due to him for what he had done, it must be regretted that he had not gone some what further, and reduced some of those taxes that now pressed so heavily on the labouring classes—that curtailed their comforts—that contracted the amount of the articles they consumed, and in that manner diminished the re turns to commercial enterprise. When he considered the distresses and privations of the working classes—that many of them were obliged to live upon fourpence or sixpence a day, he felt that every farthing of increased cost in the necessary articles of life was a matter to which their Lordships ought to grant their deliberate con sideration. When he spoke of the necessary articles of life, he meant not to re-agitate the question of the Corn Laws, which, after years of discussion, had now been set at rest. But there were other articles of life of considerable, though not, perhaps, of equal importance-- he meant tea and sugar. Tea, at least such tea as the la bouring classes drank, which was generally under 2s. a pound, paid a duty of 96 per cent. ; while sugar, which in bond cost 255. paid a duty of 275., or a tax of above 100 per cent. But in discussing the effects of taxation on the production of industry, he could not omit to mention the articles of soap and candles; the last especially was of much importance to the poor man, who was often up be fore daylight, and working after it had become dark, and to whom, therefore, a reduction of the price of candles must he most beneficial. He would not go into a detail of taxa tion ; but if he were to do ro, it would be more with a view of ascertaining what were the taxes that pressed most heavily, and whether their might not be a commutation of some of them. He was sure that if he could go into de tail, and show the Noble Duke that a commutation of taxes might be adopted, the Noble Duke would be most ready to avail himself of the suggestion, and would do everything in his power to diminish the burden that now pressed on the people. The ,Noble Duke saw that the state of the country demanded this, and he besides saw that the consumption of articles always so much increased when the duty on them was diminished, that the public revenue suffered no loss whatever from the reduction. It was always with great regret that he trespassed on their Lordships' time, but more particularly so when the matter en which he had to speak regarded himself personally; but his anxiety to place his conduct in a right point of view on this occasion must be his excuse. He had been charged with inconsistency, in having contradicted by his actions out of doors that which he had said in that House—he meant upon the subject of the em ployment of paupers in workhouses. It was assumed that he had connived at the practice of employing them in drawing carts. He could assure their Lordships he had never done so. The only instance of this kind which had come to his knowledge, and had fallen within his ju risdiction as a Magistrate, was this :—Some men came to him at Bognor, nine miles from his residence, and said that there were paupers harnessed to carts, drawing sand from the sea shore. He met them on the following day. He was Chairman of the Magistrates, and he would do his bro ther Magistrates and himself the justice to say that they examined into the matter, and that when they found they had no legal means of preventing that abuse, they remon strated with the overseers on the subject, and they ex pected that their remonstrances would have been effectual ; but be was sorry to have learnt that since that time the same system had been resorted to, and indeed he had him self seen two carts, with four men each, attended by what they called their foreman, but what he must call their driver.—(Hear, hear.) He pledged his honour for the truths of what he had said, as to this practice; and asked their Lordships whether they would not do their utmost to prevent the continuance of a practice which must have such a pernicious moral effect ? He was glad to hear the other night from the Noble Duke at the head of the Go vernment, that if England should be again called on to go to war, she was in as efficient a state as ever to resume a mili tary station; but did their Lordships believe that if our armies were to be composed of men degraded as those men were—who must have lost their ancient English spirit— did they believe, he asked, that if their Peninsular army had been composed of such men, even if they had been under the command of the greatest General of this or any preceding age, they would have stormed Ciudad Rodrigo or Badajos—they would have scaled the Pyrennees, have overthrown the enemy at Waterloo, and finally, as they had done, have planted the standard of England in the capital of France? He could not but answer that ques tion in the negative; and he could not but feel that if they once allowed the people of this country to be degraded, their national honour, almost their national existence, must cease. He intended to have gone further into this subject, but he felt unable at present to do so. He felt less regret at the omission, as be knew it would be amply supplied by those who would follow him. The Noble Duke concluded by moving for a Select Committee to in quire into the internal state of the country, the conditio❑ of the working classes, and the effect of taxation upon productive industry. Earl BATHURST said that if the Noble Duke had con cluded his speech by simply moving for a Select Com mittee to inquire into the administration of the poor laws, it would have had no opposition from him. There were indeed strong grounds for such a measure, but none what ever for the inquiry now demanded. When the Noble Duke referred to the returns made during the last winter, he ought to recollect that the last winter having been one of unusual severity, they must not be taken as a standard. Another thing the Noble Duke referred to was the dimi nution of payments into the savings banks ; but from his having referred to the returns on that subject as a proof of distress, it would seem that the Noble Duke was not aware that the difference had been created by the altera tions in the law, which did not now allow any man to have more than 2001. standing in his name at one time. and did not permit him to put in more than 301. at a time. The returns, therefore, afforded no proof of increased distress. The inquiry the Noble Duke proposed was of the most extensive nature. He was totally averse from such an unlimited inquiry, because, among other things, it would hold out expectations to the people that never could be realised. The Noble Duke acknow ledged his reluctance to go into the question of the tax o❑ foreign corn; but if this Committee was granted, how could he avoid the discussion of that question ?—a discus sion which, on every ground, was to be avoided if pos sible. He himself was convinced that no alteration in the present system of the Corn Laws would be ultimately be neficial to the people; but the discussion itself ought to be deprecated, as creating a division between the two great interests of the country. The question of currency, too, was one that must and would be brought forward ; and, indeed, he did not know any question that would not come withi❑ the scope of this most extensive inquiry. Now if there was any inquiry to be desired, it would be that re specting the relative supply of the precious metals. A Noble Marquis had contended, that since the supply of silver had been much diminished of late years, it would be a question whether they ought not to return to the ancient standard. In supporting this line of argument, too, the Noble Marquis had said, that up to 1797 silver was the only standard. He at least had so understood him ; and entertaining the highest respect for that Noble Lord's information, and the utmost diffidence in his own opinion, he had been induced to inquire into the fact—the result of which was, that he found that in 1717, at the time that Sir Isaac Newton was Master of the Mint, an Act was passed, by which gold was declared to be the cur rent coin of the tealm. It appeared, therefore, that gold at this period became as much the standard metal as silver, both being the common coin of the country. But the Noble Marquis seemed to understand that at least by prac tice silver was the only current coin of the realm. The fact, however, was, that the practice was directly the contrary. For from 1717 to 1797 (that was to say, for a period of SO years), the whole amount of the silver coinage was 656,000/. From this he argued, that the in dication was that silver had ceased to be the current coin of the realm. True, it might have been received to any extent. But what was the value of silver? The real value was 30 per cent. below the nominal value. In other words, it was—that if a man had collected a certain quantity of silver, and had a bill of 701. to pay, he was compelled to pay in that silver to the nominal value of 1001. At the same time, however, what was the state of the people respecting the silver tokens? It might be illus trated in the same manner. For if a man having this bill of 701. to pay, and a quantity of silver on hand, went to the Bank, he there received 701. in sovereigns to discharge his debt. And what, he would ask, was the state of the currency at present ? We had paper convertible into gold, and we had seven millions of silver tokens convertible into gold ; and we had, therefore, all the advantages which could be gained by a return to the ancient standard. Ac cordingly, when the Noble Marquis contended that be cause the portion of gold to silver had been diminished there was no objection to taking the metal of lower value, he felt hound to differ from him. He was also compelled to dissent to the proposition of the Noble Duke, thinking as he did that it could be productive of no advantage from the multifarious objects to which the inquiry must neces sarily be directed. If they granted a Committee, they would be obliged to enter into the considerations of the currency, because the change in the currency had been mentioned as one of the causes of the distress. They would also be compelled to enter into the situation of the agricultural and manufacturing interests—and into the whole state of trade and of taxation, as it bore directly or indirectly on the productive classes. In a word, he considered that the duties of the Committee would be of so extensive a nature, that in the end it could be of no possible use, and he would, therefore, vote against it. The Earl of MANSFIELD rose to give his cordial support to the motion. It was contended that the in quiry would be interminable. This was asserted broadly, but there was, perhaps, a latent objection to the effect, that they might inquire without possessing the possibility of affording relief. They all allowed there was some distress. He would therefore say that they were all bound to dis cover the nature and extent of this distress, and to see if there were not remedies which could be applied. He had not the advantage of having been present at the delivering of the King's Speech. He was, however, in common with others, surprised to find the public distress so lightly men tioned. At the same time he allowed, that perhaps in the writing of that Speech, those light touches had, perhaps, cost these Ministers more labour and difficulty than any of the other parts of that composition.—(Laughter.)—This Speech was, of course, understood to be the Speech of his Majesty's Ministers, and taking it as such, and considering the meeting at which it was agreed to (he would not say discussed), this might, perhaps, upon the authority of an old proverb, in some degree account for the misrepresenta tions of the state of the country, which it contained. " Un hemme riche, quand it a bien dine, voit tout le monde heureux."—(Laughter and cheers.)—Notwithstanding the Ministerial statement, however, the distress was severe and general, and lie would say, that the patience with which it had been endured, was indeed wonderful. This proceeded, in his opinion, from no confidence in his Ma jesty's Ministers. For the endurance of the Administra tion was looked to as the National Debt, or any other grievance. He did not say this as one partaking in this opinion, or as one entertaining the contrary ; he merely mentioned it as a prevalent feeling. He knew, however, hewould not be misunderstood in that House, and he knew he should never find it necessary to shield his own opinions under the form of those of another.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—But to resume ; he attributed this endu rance upon the part of the distressed people to that moral courage so often praised, but never too frequently or too highly—and he also attributed it to that increase of corn nion sense, which prevented them from being seduced from the path of duty and of loyalty by the voice of fac tious orators.—(Hear.)—The people now looked to Par liament alone, and this because they well knew it was a body anxious to inquire into their circumstances, and to promote their interests They knew, too, that if they suf fered themselves to be betrayed into seditious language or acts of violence, the injury was sure to recoil upon them selves, and that they were neutralising the efforts of their friends and advocates. This statement was not flattering to the individual Minister, but still it was matter of con gratulation to their Lordships, for it put the security of the Government and Constitution upon a secure foundation. —(Cheers.)—ln looking, however, to the improved loyalty of the people, it should be remembered that this, in the season of distress, gave them a high claim upon the attention of their Lordships—it should compel them to take the whole case into their con sideration.—(Hear, hear, hear. )—He had hitherto appeared to argue this question as if their Lordships were placed on an exalted height to view the public distress, being themselves free from the contagion. But was this the case ? In other countries, where the superb palace, resplendent with every ornament that art could furnish, and loaded with every luxury that Europe could supply, stood by the side of the lowly and wretched cottage, which appeared before it like Lazarus pining at the rich man's gate, there was no community of sentiment between the tenants of such opposite dwellings, founded upon the con sciousness of equal rights and freedom and protection by the law. No. They had no common interest or feeling —the discrepancy between them in all things was as great as it was in wealth and station. But here, although there was a difference in the degree of wealth possessed by indi viduals, there was still a greater diffusion of property, and the advantages of property, than there was else where. Tale traveller in former days, when passing through England, might observe that there were indi vidual objects of misery ; but he could not then (he wished lie could not now) declare that the stamp of misery was upon any particular class.—(Loud cheers.)—But now whole bodies of people were in misery, and this could not long exist without affecting all classes, from the ma nufacturing and agricultural, till it reached the very highest. He hoped that if they consented to a Committee many of the statements made respecting the distress would be found overcharged; many, however, would doubtless be supported by facts, and it became them to adopt speedy measures to prevent the lower classes from falling into a decay, which would be sure to affect the property of th e nation. When one looked to the prosperity of a country, they should not regard the wealth of a few, or the pro digality of individuals, emulous of that displayed by Rome in its decadence; the sure test was the obser vation of the comparative state of comfort and hap piness enjoyed by the lower classes. The second division of the inquiry was respecting the pres sure of taxation ; and here he admitted that it would be necessary to enter into the questions of corn and currency ; but still, however multifarious might be the objects to which their attention might be directed, they would still be enabled to bear before their eyes that their object should be to ascertain the facts respecting the distress, to investigate the causes, and to seek for such reme dies as might appear attainable. In conclusion, he supported the motion, not because it was actually the best, but be cause it was the best that offered. He had rather some proposition had emanated from Ministers, who might have divided the subject as they pleased. Still he thought much good might be effected by a Committee, constituted as it would be. He would support his Noble Friend's motion, and he trusted that other Noble Lords opposite, who had been very acute in former times at finding out distress, would also favour him with their assistance ; lie wished this the more particularly, because those Noble persons were observed, by their eloquence and talents, to have exercised a great effect upon the measures of the Administration to which they had been formerly opposed. The Earl of ELDON said, that if their Lordships were disposed to satisfy the people that they wished to relieve them, the first step should be to inquire into the causes of the distress under which they were suffering. This was a point he was anxious to press most particularly upon them, because their own interests were involved in the consideration of the question; for it had long been the boast of England that all classes of its children were as it were dovetailed together in a community of affection for each other and the Constitution. He remembered the mischievous projects afloat in 1792-3-4 and 6, and how Parliament had succeeded in putting an end to them; and he hoped that their Lordships would, by the vote of that night, be enabled to terminate projects of a similar nature which were then in agitation. He trusted, accordingly, that there would be no longer any objection upon the part of the House to the motion for a Committee. They were told on a former night by several Noble Lords, that their only objection to the proposition of a Noble Earl was founded on the manner; they were opposed to a Commit tee of the whole House. Now a Select Committee was proposed, their objections should therefore he removed.— (Hear, hear.)—He was not one of those who supposed it was in the power of Parliament to give entire relief to the people, but it was of the last importance to have the public satisfied that, even if it were not in their power to comply with their wishes, you were at least anxious to inquire into the causes of their distress, and to afford them all possible assistance. He was en couraged to hope, from what had passed upon a former occasion, that this inquiry would not nosy be denied—an inquiry which the assertion in the King's Speech, that described the distress as only partial, did in itself; after the many documents to a contrary effect which had been laid before the House, render necessary. Ministers had found out that the country might be relieved to the extent of three millions and a half, in one spring morning, and they even doubted whether the relief might not extend to five millions ; he, therefore, felt confident, that as the wea ther improved, the country might expect further disco veries of this sort. The same objections that had been - The Earl of BOSEBERRY would direct himself to what had fallen from the Noble Earl, the President of the Council, who had adverted to what he had said with re spect to silver being the standard of the currency. The Noble Earl had stated, that so far back as 1719, when Sir Isaac Newton had settled the currency of the country, gold had been made the standard. When his Noble Friend asserted that fact, he had forgot to state that when the arrangement took place, gold was settled conformably to the price of silver. In 1774 an Act of Parliament had been brought in, limiting the silver coinage as a legal tender to 251. ; but the Noble Earl, in stating that fact, had forgot to state that the reason of the measure was, that the silver coinage was then touch debased, and below the market value of the metal. The Noble Earl had stated that if any man now went to the Bank with seventy pounds in gold, he could easily obtain for it seventy pounds in silver, but this was merely from the civility of the Bank, arising from their want of silver in their current trans actions. The Noble Earl near him (Lord Eldon) had entirely mistaken all be had said respecting the distresses of the country. The tenor of his speech had been ill favour of inquiry, although he had objected to the mode of inquiry proposed, which was at the bar. The present motion of the Noble Duke opposite was altogether free from objection. He perfectly agreed with his Majesty's Speech where he recommended the House to separate those causes of distress which were beyond Legislative controul, from those which might be within the reach of Parliament. He also agreed with that part of the Speech in which was recommended the greatest degree of caution in any inquiry into so delicate and intricate a subject ; but he could not acquiesce in the opinion that because some of the causes of dis tress were beyond legislative controul that therefore the House was not to make any inquiry into those causes that were, or might be, within the reach of Parliament. This would amount to an absolute prohibition of all inqUiry. He was happy that a Committee had been established to inquire into the condition of the poor of Ireland, and he should support the present motion. Lord CAMDEN thought the motion w.is not to rest upon any general views of distress, for it was a specific motion for a Select Committee to inquire into a specific subject. In 1522, the distress hp.,l been so great that he and many other landlords had been obliged to remit a whole year's rent to their tenantry. He was confident that the distress of the country had been greatly exaggerated ; and many thought it not bad sport, by such means, to (listless Ministers.—(Hear.)—He had every respect for the expres sion of the genuine sense of the people ; but he could - Not avoid entertaining the opinion, that public meetings were not unfrequently called, rather to hack the opinions of cer tain Members of Parliament, than to ascertain the real wishes of the great body composing the assembly. He was sorry to hear a Noble Earl assert this night, that Mi nisters were not aware of the state of the coun:ry. If they were not, it was must extraordinary, considering that they had the best means of information. The remedy for such distress as existed was unquestionably economy and reduced taxation ; and he was sure that the present Government had evinced a strong disposition in favour of both. A prudent economy had been both professed and practised. The Earl of WINCHILSEA rose to offer the most cor- dial support to the motion of his Noble Friend, which had been brought forward in a manner entitling the Noble Duke to the gratitude of his country, and esta blishing for him a character more to be envied than the exalted honours of his station. Ile had heard with sur prise from the Noble President of the Council, that it was impossible to enter upsn an inquiry into the distresses of the labouring, agricultural, and manufacturing popula tion, without including the distresses of other classes of the community. Would that be received in the country as a sufficient answer to the present motion, and would it not be thought the grossest dereliction of Parliamentary duty to refuse investigation ? Another Noble Lord had argued that to remove the abuses of the poor laws would furnish a remedy and afford relief. True it was that the mal-administratio❑ of the poor laws might have aggra vated the sufferings of the lower orders ; but he (Lord Winchilsea) was at a loss to know how even the removal of the abuses of the poor laws could afford any thing like adequate relief. The poor-rates at this moment amounted to from seven to ten millions annually, and without them the labouring classes would be reduced to the last stage of misery and starvation. It seemed to [Jim that the poor laws, taken by themselves, formed one of the finest codes that had ever entered the mind of mind, and the mal-ad ministration of those laws was all that c,,uld be reasonably complained of. He firmly believed that there was but one interest in the cou❑try—that all were desirous to place affairs upon the best and most prosperous footing, hut he thought at the same time that mistaken notions prevailed ; and if it were true, as was asserted by some, that The Duke of BUCKINGHAM and the Duke of Wel lington rose at the same time; the latter gave way ; and the former proceeded to say, he rejoiced, both upon public and private grounds, at the recovery of the Noble Duke. The proposition he had submitted divided itself into two parts-1. The state of the labouring poor ; 2. The state of taxation, as affecting the productive industry of the country. The objection he felt was, that the motion was too comprehensive, inasmuch as either branch was an amply sufficient subject of inquiry by a Committee. This was not the first time the story of national distress and ruin had been repeated ; it had been beard over and over again during the last 150 years. Because rents have fallen or were difficult to be obtained—because wages were low and poor rates high, therefore the country was upon the brink of ruin. George Earl of Middleton, in his day, was so im pressed with the weight of the National Debt and the amount of taxation, that even then he declared that the country could never survive. Sir John Sinclair, too, had shown that between 1688 and 1783, the country, accord ing to the prognostications of some, had been twenty-two times ruined, and twenty-two times bankrupt.—(Hear, hear.)—Therefore, whatever effect these gloomy anticipa tions might have upon the country, he hoped the House was not to he frightened by them. His objection to the motion of the Noble Duke was, that it would excite ex pectations that could not be realised, and that the people would give Parliament credit for having more power to 'aid them than it was willing to exert. He did full justice to the motives of the Noble Duke ; it was natural in " the early morning air" of his political life that he should feel a strong sympathy for the sufferings of the distressed, and that he should be anxious to relieve ; but he ought to recollect how many out of doors would make use of his name and authority to raise hopes that must be dis appointed, and by means of that disappointment to work upon the discontented. The present state of the farmers was in a great degree owing to the present state of the country—to the condition of peace we enjoyed, and to the intercourse we carried on with neighbouring nations. Es sex and Buckinghamshire, for instance, were dairy coun ties—from them the metropolis used mainly to be supplied with butter; but at present Dutch and French butter were brought over by steam ; and the Noble Duke this morning by his last breakfast had contributed to the very state of things he deplored. The farmer got his labour cheaply done by employing the labourers who were partly paid out of the poor rates, and therefore it was so far his interest that the registers of the poor should be kept full ; and he believed that a great proportion of the last harvest, which was said to be a good one, was got in in that man ner. This was a bad system ; but then why not bring forward a specific measure to amend it ? That might be a very proper course, but a general inquiry was not the proper mode of proceeding. So much as to the first part of the Noble Duke's position. As to the second part, which related to the depressed state of the industry of the country. Now, on comparing the years 1823-4. and 5 with the years 1828-9-30, the production in the latter years was much greater, and there was consequently much more j employment for the labourers. This was the case with resp:ct to wool and other goods. If the taxes had been the cause of the distress, then the distress ought to have been much more severe on the labouring classes in the former series of years than in the latter, which was not, in fact, the case. Oh, but his Noble Friend on the other side would say, that at the former period there was a paper currency. He thought he observed paper cur rency at the corner of his mouth. But even in the times of paper currency there was distress, which was the same in principle, thought not in amount. It was asserted, not only that distress existed generally all over the coun try, but the causes of that distre-s were stated. As to the existence of distress to a very considerable extent, it was too:clear to be contested; but he could not admit that the taxes were the cause of the distress. If they were, then in those places where the taxes were low the distress would not prevail. But look at Switzerland, America, and France, where the amount of taxation was low, and it would appear that the distress prevailed in those coun tries as well as in England. Then we were told that the National Debt was the cause of the distress. If so, then in those places where there was no debt, or a debt comparatively low in amount, the distress would not exist. But look at the state of Switzerland, Germany, America, and France—the distress was the same, al though in Switzerland there was no debt, and in the other places it was comparatively low. The truth was that the distress prevailed generally over the world. It was absurd, then, to say that the distress arose from these causes. Then as to the paper cut rency, he requested their Lordships to call to mind the time when the paper cur rency was at its height, when, as it was said, there was the fullest mutual confidence between the farmer and the paper banker. At that time a farmer would come and take a farm from any one of their Lordships without hav ing the means to stock it. lie then applied to the paper banker, who issued paper without capital t qual to the amount of his issues, and he got abundance of paper ; but the consequence often was that both the one and the other failed, and your farm was spoiled, while the rent was frequently unpaid. There were some who appeared to think that the paper currency ought again to be resorted . „ to, which had produced the bubble of 18:25, when 165 hankers hided. From that time the paper currency had been gradu dly diminishing, and recourse was had to a metallic currency, and with great advantage. And it was a remarkable circumstance, that out of those 165 banks which failed, 160 paid 15s. in the pound; that is, they paid their debts to that e xtent in the metal lic currency, although they had h• en contracted in the paper. It was easy fu r the Noble Duke to sit a t t a l n ie ces C . ust l o f m t - h h e ouse, Noble aling ou t for complaint s of Dukegriev he North any un favourable accounts o f the state of the T allow Trade, he d from the called out for inquiry. If there was a pressure of French silk in the market, the only remedy was a Committee. The distress was general all over the woi Id, and vet inquiry was called for as if it had been exclusively British. The real cause of the distress he believed to be the breaking Earl RADNOR—The latter part of the argument of the Noble Duke who had opposed the motion was some what extraordinary; for he had complained of the union of parties in support of the motion, as something unwhole some. Now, that appeared to him to be an argument in favour of the inquiry, for it showed that the motion was so decidedly right, that even those who differed on all other topics agreed in this.—(Hear, hear. )—Another ob jection made to the appointment of a Committee was, that it would raise the expectations of the people; but it was also contended that every thing was in a state of improve ment : and if that were the case, he thought that the Noble Duke ought to join with them in voting for the Committee, so that they might explain to the people who were crying out so lustily, how it was that they were so entirely mistaken, It would have been more satisfactory if the Noble Duke, however, had stated his grounds for these assertions, for the people bad not yet been able to tied out the improvement that was talked of. He was not in any way connected with Manchester, but a person with whom he was entirely unacquainted had written him a letter in allusion to the petition that had come from that place. From that letter it appeared that there were num bers living at Manchester on 2d. and 2-id. a-day. At Huddersfield, too, where a public meeting took place on the 11th December, it appeared that out of 29,697 per sons, there were 660 who were only able to earn 6s. 11d. a week; 439 who were living on sial. a-day ; and 13,226 who were living on 2#4. a-day. This was in December. On the 28th of February a letter was writ ten, to inquire whether matters were improved, and the answer was, that from good information it appeared that the extent of the distress was more than doubled. From the paper which he held in his hand, it appeared that the wages of the silk weavers were in 1828 15 per cent. higher than at present ; in 1826, 30 per cent. higher ; in different parts of the year 1625, 40 and 55 per cent. higher; and in 1624, 60 per cent. higher. Th, distress of the people now, however, was beyond p ara ll e l ; many were obliged to sleep in their day clothes ; others had only a little straw to lie on, and, in many instances, front four p cl t re i n s teorn e o b r 'ed il — u g (l l :l ° ;rl n fiel ' d n . ales ln an a d petition being promiscuously mixed. But these things were not c to on s fi ix ne p d er t s o on; which he presented a few nights ago, from Dursley, in Gloucestershire, it appeared that there were 694 payers of rates, and that upwards of 3,0001. were raised for the relief of the poor, independently of 2501. given in volun tary donations, and 1001. from a manufacturing commit tee ; from these funds there were 1,500 poor receiving relief, and 750 more, who, though not actually receiving parochial aid, were so poor as to be unable to support themselves, many living upon 1511. a week. When tl.ese things were existing in one part of the country, it was impossible that there could be prosperity in any other. And there was evidence that he was right, for there hail been county meetings in every part of the country. A INoble Lord had said that there had been no distress in Northumberland, but at all tYellti there had been