The Sun. — London, England, 1830-12-21 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE O 1 LORDS, Dec. 20. The Lono CB A MELLOR. diti not take his beat till nearly I lalflust Five o'clo►ck ton the Woolsack. NEGRO SLAVERY. Petitions against Negin Slavery wire :(31 4 taebted by the Earl of Shaftesbury, the Earl of Roselyn, the Earl of Car. narvon, Lord Stanhope, and 'the bul:e of Cumberland, The Earl of ROSEDERRY presented a 'petition from the Provost, Town Council, and Magistrate's of Linlithgow, praying for Parliamentary Iteform and a repeal of the As sessed Taxes. In doing NO the noble Earl took that opporto • pity of stating, that no mist>the was greater than *al which had recently been in circulation, that the pet'ple of Scotland bad not a strong desire to see improtement in the repro aentation of that country. Ne frictions were more anxious than they were for a tempetate Reform. The present peti tion came from persons who were interested in keeping things as they were, which he (Lord Row&try) consi. dared a great. proof that they wished, and that there ought to be, *change. The Notme Ecn - t, also phoosnted a petition of a similar nature frion the inhabitants of Linlithgow. Lord I)UNCAN supported the perititlt, and at the same time wished to correct a mistake which had gone abroad aa,to. what bo. stated some , Crte nights ago relative to tite election at Renfrew, lie • bed been repretented as lote;ng stateti that one of the Mentheta from that place _ had , km nested by a triatitAty of three, he hail 110 dpoht Out :111%take areas from the low tone in which be spoke, but Whet he had thee stated was, that the Member for lientrew. to. willow Ito referred, had been eletted by rrFridnrity . of twitter! o f three. lord BTANIIOPE presented several petitions ageing oltivery, petitioner* et the, sante time complaining of peat- ngriettltural iiiidtress, which they bellet•A was a uisitation of Providence in consequence of 'egro slavery I : +oing allowed to eitiet. The Noble Lord considered it extremely poehtilika that for the sitetk.. , ll he had now made he ribuold meet with the admonition , of the Noble read icedreted Lod on the • Wstolsack, as he had done 011 a pre vious uteasion, licattoehl, however, not be regulated by any-pormohl that Ifatice, .not even by that Noble Lord in.the-opiedebee be thottglit proper to make, or the times or tiktiva, aF , Making. them.- Be should act as he always had d'untoambeliusight best, notwithstanding any remarks that Noble Lord alien think himself juetified in nicking. The Nont.e Baer, also presented a petition from a gen tleman nane.al Burgoyne, praying for the employment of labourers on waste lands. Lord NAPIER presented a petition for the lowering of tioties on. West To& produce. The Noble Lord also moved for papers relative to the constitution of Scotch Burghs ; which, after some observations from the Earls of Robeberry and Rosslyn, were ordered. LUNATICS. The LORD CHANCELLOR then rose to move fer a - vmain returns relative to lunatdcb, whose property was placed at the disposal of the Court of Chancery. The average number of lunatics Under the cure and direction of the Overt averaged M. From the inf o rM a tion whi c h h e bad been enabl e d to acquire on the subject, he hail to state that the nunaher of persons Labouring under mental derange. anent, who hail been placed under the direction of the Court, amounted, one year WWI another, to 400. Those were, of course, petitions who bad been possessed of pro perry, more or lent; and the 'Court uniformly, in dealing with their cases, directed that : their persons and prop e rti e s should b e p'easesi under the care of a Committee, and a fair and reasonable provision for their maintenance, comfort, anal, if possible, for their cure, should be allowed ; and, as a aeeeaaary consequence, that they should he immediately restored to the enjoyment tif all their rights at the earliest moment that was at till consistent with a clue preservation of the property to which, as sane men, they would he en titled. The amount of property for these 400 persons wi h which the Court had to deal was no less than 1813,0001 Ile need scarcely inform their Lordships, that under each successive Lord Chancellor every imagin dlile care was taken that those unhappy persons should have the benefit of all kind and gentle treatment, and every possible vigilance was exerted in superintending the nimioistration of their funds. No pains were spared in perliwining the difficult, important, and delicate task which arose from such. care and custody of their pe suns us were calculated to proinete their recovery. As to tinge 'property' the parties 'to - Whose care that was commit tett were, generally. speaking, too Much interested in its preservation to alinveit amuck to Softer. The Court from time to time :Wait 100;10*bn:es' to' exercise a severe con true!, in order to its being assitrell that none were found to be dun itic 'escalating-those airtio . were really in.: From the first moment at which. they were . placed under the pro. satiation of the Great hut, the utmost care was taken that no unnecessary restraint iraa iMposed, and even that no Connuitsaion he issued till absolutely nete.sary. Finally, oven under a Statute of Lunacy, nothing was done until a lade= inquiry and trial before a competent tribunal estahli.bed its necessity; thus every possible shield WOO interposed for the protection of those unhappy persons, so at that they should nut be easily, or without absolute ne cessity, placed in the hands' of a committee; 'and even after they were so f.tinitnitted, no precaution was beg lected that could guard them against any species of ill treatment, or secure their properties against waste or in jury; and they were uniformly watched with the utmost cure, that the earliest moment of returning reason might be taken advantage of, for the purpose of restoring to them The management of their property, and the possession of freedom. It (wetted to his iiumediate predecessor that means ought to be adopted for acquiring fuller information apon the subject of cases of hanat7 than bad theretofore been laid before the Court; and, with that view, he bad issued vireo! ore for the pnrpose of ascertaining the number of caws in which the patients had recovered. He had ota, mated answers with respect to twenty-five thousand some o 'd Wadi-eds. Their Lordships would perceive that that was an exceedingly barge number for the calculation to operate on - ; and that included as well those who had been shut up only for a few =rajas as those who might have been in confinement for years, and it was, therefore, ne matter of surprise that the cures were frequently as one to two and a sixth, and one to two and a half. That was the average recovery ; but it was never to be lost sight of, that the numbers referred to included those who were tem. pararily shut up upon a sudden breaking out of insanity ; whereas, the average number of 400 under the care of the Court of Chancery embraced no cases except those of some standing ; it was accordingly not to be wondered at that the number of cures should, in that aggregate, hear a small proportion to the whole, far months anti months frequently elapsed before a Statute of Lunacy was issued from the Court of Chancery. It was, therefore, true that the cures to such eases did nut amount to more than one in ten—or, if he said one in twenty, he might be nearer to the mark. It occurred to him that it would be a great improvement to their present system if a small medical hoard were appointed —say, consisting of two physicians —men accustomed to the care of persons mentally de ranged—that is, men who had been accustomed to direct their attention to symptoms and treatment of those dis. eases, and the inquiries connected therewith—not persons of the class usually called " mad doctor,"---then who keep lunatic asylums—men highly useful to the community, and thwart!s whom he meant to convey no reproach—but who, front their previous habits, wauld, he conceived, be the most useful pereime in the . world to Constitute members of the Board which was then in his contemplation. The persons whom he thought best qualified for such a Board would be men wit° were general Members of the medical , proh , Ssion ; they would pat the beet qualified to compose' a Board, that, from time to time, would inquire into' the cases of the lunatics under the care of the Court of Chancery---who would form an efficient check upon the profes,ional men to whose care those unhappy persons *eight be committed, and who thereby could advise and enable the Court to see that they were well cured, or humanely watched and treated, so that not a moment's delay 'dumld interpose between the return of sanity and the peace ful restoration of their rights. This then was an outline of what he proposed to do; and if any doubt existed as to the power of the Court in the cases that might arise and which the interference of such a Board might create, a legislative enactment would of courts supply all defects. lie should not just then have incrosehed upon their Lordships, but that he apprehended another opportunity would not be afforded to him previous to tiro recess; and before stating his motion, he wished to express a hope that his Noble and Learned' Friend would not disdain to afford that assist once iu improving the administration of the Court which his great eaperienee enabled him so eminently to franish. lii concluded by moving for a return of all the Lunatics at lament under the care of the Court of Chancery, with the dates of the issues of the Commissions in their cases, With the cad:mated total rents and profita of their estates. - The Earl of _ELDON said, that the jurisdiction over lunatics Neat not its the 'Court of Chancery, but in the King. Thou Lord Chancellor was Always the person ap. poirtkii, but the et outminicoa issued from the King. Sc, king as hl3lll the Seale he Moat assiduously laboured to do all that could possibly be done to improve the condi tion of:4a hinatielt.--to adopt all means for promoting ,Muir reeeveryouset preserving thee property. Ile ex , peesied.A. peqeet. willingnees to afford every assistance in ) i ; b. patWer to his riStale-And Leaned Friend in improving 4 44,ydraiitrAtion, el Sha Conn of Chancery. y rs !,;' , ,,The LOBO CHANCWLI.,OR begged to say a war d i n \ -' 4Flarratio' 0 0 4 4 60 11 of 014 persons who devOltad themselves to - the die of those who were insane, he desired to be underitood that he meant to convey n'othint more than 'that they had a strong prejudice in favou'r of mad ness, Prom his knowledge of "their feelings and prepos sessions, acquired dining tie p7actice at the bar, he was prepared to say that they were too ready to see madness where no ono else could see it. He repeated his earnest wish for the assistance of his Noble and Lea'riied Priemd on the Cross-heuch. The Patents' Contiraition Bill was then read a third time, ,ItS`I'ICES OF THE PEACE (IRELAND.) Earl GREY brought in a Bill to extend the Commis sions of the Peace in Ireland beyond the Sltith of this month, when they would necessarily expire. The Lord Lieutenant left Irelattil withiMt providing for the dontin gi•ncy that had °tamed ; and the Lord t hancellor, as one of the V Ards Yustieea, donbied tOsether he could issue or join in issuing an 'oiler to himself for continuing the Com ruissione. He hoped that the House would allow hill to introduce a till for remedying the inconvenience Which had arisen, and permit it to pass through its stages with as little delay as possible. The Bill was then, ready a first time. .SWAN . RIVER SETTLEMENT. Leal rfEYNHANI rose to call the attention of the !house to the subject of the Swan River Settlement, and to put a question to the Noble Secretary for the Colonies, relative to the condition of that settlement. An extract of a letter on the condition of the settlement had appeared in the Morning Chronicle, which, both on account of the high character of the paper, and the importance of the subject, was well worthy of attention. He would read to their Lordships the notice in the Morning Chronicle, which was in these terms:--- " DISTRESS IN THE SWAN RIVER. SETTLIIIKIINT.— The following is an extract Peons a letter just received from one of the most extensive of the settlers in Van Dietnan's Land :—‘ The Swan River settlement is with us, just now, a constant subject of diecouise. Messrs. Bryan made a good speculation in the William there. Flour soil for 601, per ton, potatoes for 151., and salt pro visions for Bd. per pound ; the whole of which was taken off their hands by the Governor. The live stock Was Un saleable, till the Governor (Stirling) gave them a grant of 350,000 acre* to put it on. The objection Mr. Bryan made to a second venture of provision was sufficiently descriptive of the state of the colony. He could not afford to supply a starving population from charity, and it wan already out of their power to pay for their food. Their furniture, agricultural implements, all their preparations for comfort, are exposed to the weather, themselves are sheltered in huts formed of blankets. The country, for a hundred miles round, is an arid sand or hare rock, no grass, no timber. Dr. Westbrook who came from that place to this six months ago, told me he saw the grave for the first person who died there dug. It was nine feet deep, and the sand from the bottom was, when thrown up, fit for an hour-glass. The live stock dies in general a few days after landing, supposed to he poisoned by some herb or shrub, to avoid which certain lees, most sheep taken these to be sold, or to breed from, are killed in the ships, and retailed as fresh provisions. The bush does not help them, as here ; for there are no kangaroos, nor even opossums. The place must be abandoned ; and I suppose the number of people will oblige the Government to re move them to a more promising part of the coast. It is, in fact, a second Poyais. What notice will be taken of Captain Stirling's misrepresentations remains to be seen. He might be supposed to have but a slight knowledge of the quality of the land; but the very roadsted is altogether unsafe for shipping, though described by him as a fine harbour. Six vessels were ashore when the Britannia was these ; three of them were complete wrecks. I have seen several stout anchors broken on the coral rocks before Fremantle. Mr. Bryan reports that there are not less than 200 females there, many of them used to more than the common comforts of life, and yet they must starve, if not relieved by the Government, as their own resources are exhausted.' " This was certainly a matter of deep and awful im portance. Many people had embarked the whole of their property in this speculation, and great responsibility had been incurred, and great blame appeared to rest some where. Of course be did not mean to say that any blame attached to the present Ministers, but if this representa tion was at all correct, blame must attach to some of their predecessors; and at all events it was highly desirable that some satisfactory explanation should be given on the sub ject. Much bud been said on the subject of emigration, which many had encouraged from a notion that thiscoun try war ever-peopled. But from what he knew of some parishes in the county of Kent, they did not euntain more than the usual numbers, nor a greater number than might have been employed to advantage, if the farmer. had the means of employing them. But the farmers had not the means of employing them at present, and that was one great cause of the distress. If he were to judge from these instances of the state of the whole country, he would be led to conclude that there was no extraordinary superabund ance of population. The capences of 'these emigrations were enormous, and perhaps it would be much better to colonize at home. A Noble Lord, who had presented a petition on the subject had stated that he had observed in a day's ride to town 12,000 acres of waste land, and all this might probably be tskeu in with advantage, and afford employment to the great body of the peasantry. There were fifteen millions of acres of waste lands in the whole country, and the taking them in might be formed into a source of employment which would make every peasant in the country happy. But no Administration had taken this matter in hand, and the people of this country were left to purchase articles front foreigners which might be very well produced at home. He hoped, however, that some plan of domestic colonization would be at last adopted ; but in the mean time he wished to know front the Noble Lord at the bead of the Colonial Depart. ment, whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Go vernment to abandon the settlement on the Swan River, and whether the reports and representations as to the wretched condition of the colony were correct ? Lard GODERIOII observed, in reply, that the Govern ment had every reason to believe that the imputations on the Swan River were not founded in justice. It was not his intention at present to enter upon a discussion of the comparative merits of the systems of foreign and do mestic colonization, nor did he mean to pronounce which was the hatter plan —to promote emigration or to employ the peasantry in cultivating these fifteen millions of acres of waste land. But with regard to the particular question put to him by the Noble Lord, he had to answer that, as far as he was informed, it was not at present the intention of his Majesty's Government to aban don the Swan River settlemeut. If the Government could rely on the last authentic accounts which they had received from the settlement, there was every prospect of its being a very useful establishment, and one which was likely to realise all the expectations that had been formed of it. Every one who knew anything about colonization, knew that at the outset it was attended.with great diffa• cultic., anti it was expected that those who attempted the enterprise should be endowed with those moral qualities of energy, perseverance and patience, which such en under taking required. But some people, no doubt, would embark in such enterprises upon erroneous views and speculations, without duly estimating the preliminary hardships and privations which mast be endured in such situations, and these persona would no doubt b• disappointed. The last communication which the Go ♦ernntunt had received was a letter or despateh from Governor Stirling to Sir George Murray, dated the 20th of January last, and that communication gave no account of the distress of the colony, but on the contrary was on the whole very favourable. That document was now at the office, ready to be laid on their Lordship's table if called for, and it gave very full information on the subject, and the individual from whom it proceeded was well known to be a man of cultivated mind, and of talents which fully qualified him to give Accurate information on such a sub ject. There was no objection whatever to the production of that document; and if the Noble Lord should follow up his question with the motion which, as he had intimated to him, it was his intention to make, he would move, by way of amendment, that a call for this document should he substituted in its place. This was the last authentic document nit the subject, and contained all the information which the Government at present had. The Noble Lord must be aware that it would be very imprudent in Go vernment to act on loose and vague reports. Lord TEYN HAM expressed surprise that Government should nut have been able to procure information of so late a date as that which had been obtained by private indi viduals. Some of these had received information of so late a date as the 4th of May last, and it was singular that the Government alone should be misinformed. Some of these accounts stated that there were no lands fit fur cultivation beyond certain mountains mentioned ; and that the people were suffering very considerably. He hoped that the Go verment would give directions to afford some relief to those who were suffering from the effects of a speculation undertaken without 'consideration, and concluded by moving for an account of the number of ships cleared out for the Smut River settlement during a certain period, and fur an account of the lands in cultivation there. Lord GODERICII observed, that the information to which the Noble Lord bad alluded, as having been ob tained by private individuals, was not direct from the Swan River, but from other quarters, which probably came from the Swan River, if it cents at all, at a much earlier period than the information received by the Go vertimint. As to the Arst part of the Noble Lords motion, there could be no objection to it, and he would only add to it, that the communication from Governor Stirling to Sir George Murray, dated the 20th of January last, be laid on the table. The motion, without addition or amendment, was agreed to. _ _ _ DEBTORS' BILL. Lord WYNFOHD moved the second reading of his Bill for preventing frauds on creditors by debtors lying in gaol. The Loan CHANCELLOR and Lord Er DON intimated some objection to one Clause in the Bill, but said that the discussion of the principle might take place on the motion for going into the Committee. Lord WYNFORD said, that he would not insist on the clause in question if he found that other Noble and Learned Lords thought it objectionable; and, if he yielded to any Noble Lord, he would yield to his Noble and Learned Friend (Eldon)► He had no objection to postpone the dis cuiision, but he was desirous that the Bill should be for• warded a stage. _ The Bill was then read a second time. Adjourned till to-morrow (this day), at Half-past Three o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Dec. 20. Petitions were presented from a great many places, praying for the Abolition of S:avery, Reduction of Taxa tion, and Parliamentary Reform. Mr. Alderman WOOD moved for a return of the pay and salaries of all persons engaged in public offices during the year* 1828 and 1829.—Ordered. Sir J. NEWPORT moved for various returns connected with the Established Church of Ireland.—Ordered. Sir It. INGLIS obtained leave for the Carrickfergus Committee to sit during the adjournment of the House. A number of petitions were presented by Mr. KEN. NIDE and Sir R. FERGUSSON from Glasgow and other places, praying for an extension of the elective franchise iu Scotland. LIVERPOOL ELECTION. Mr. ROBINSON presented a petition from Mr. Righy Mason, stating that a rumour had gone forth that the sitting Member for Liverpool, fearful of an investigation into the circumstances of the late election, had intimated his intention to resign his Wit. The petitioner hoped, however, the House would not allow, if such a course should be adopted, the bribery and corruption that had been practised to go unpunished. General GASCOYNE said a few words which were in audible in the gallery. The SPEAKER said, if this was an election petition it was too late to be received ; but if not, he should sub mit to the House that it was irregular, inasmuch as it went to prejudge the merits of the petition, that must, by the law of the land, go betine a Committee. Mr. MART regretted be was not in the House the other evening when a Noble Marquis intimated his intention to bring forward this subject,--(Hear, hear.) —He would, however, state that he did not shrink from inquiry, but denied the charges of bribery and cor ruption. He should always be an advocate for extending the elective franchise in Liverpool, for although he had been elected by the middling classes, he thought all who contributed towards the burdens of the State ought to participate in the election of Members. After some further observations from Gen. GASCOYNE and Mr. ROBINSON, the petition was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. C. TENNANT moved that an humble Address be presented to his Majesty, praying that be would be graciously pleased to order the appointment of a Select Committee to enquire into the state of the waste hinds in Canada, Australasia, Asia, and South Africa, for the purpose of considering what means might be devised for bettering the condition of the labouring classes. Mr. HART DAVIS presented a petition from Bristol, praying for compensation to the slave-owners in the West Indies. Mr. BAILEY said that, as a West India Proprietor, he was ready to give his support to a measure for the eman cipation of the slaves if it was coupled with one for com pensation to the slave-owners. Mr. EVANS was not disposed, looking to what had been already done in the West Indies, to place muck con fidence in the planters; and if the Government did not take some steps to promote the amelioration of the condi tion of slaves, it would lose the confidence which he, in common with the great mass of the community, was dis posed to place in his Majesty's Ministers. The petition, which was from Bristol, praying that the Government would nut take any steps to ameliorate the condition of the slaves, without paying due regard to pro perty, and without considering what was likely to be the result on the slaves themselves, was brought up and reed, and laid on the table. TITHES—IRELAND. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON presented a petition, complaining of tithes and church-rates, from Clondegad, in the county of Clare. The petitioners complained that they were called on to pay tithes and rates to the Pro testant Church, though there was no Protestant Church in the parish, nor a Protestant Clergyman, nor even one Protestant inhabitant. Of all this, the inhabitants being Catholics, complained, and complained justly, when the Protestants of England were also complaining of the came exactions. They were the causes here of outrage, and in Ireland they were the causes of much of the discontent which prevailed. Sir R. INGLIS reminded the lion. Member that tithes were paid exclusively by the land, and if the Church did not receive them, a sum equal to them would go to the landlord, and the people would not be benefitted. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON, though he wished not to treat with levity what fell from the Hon. Member for Oxford, could not avoid noticing that that Hon. Member seemed to think that the land produced wealth without labour, and accordingly, in his estimation, the people and their just complaints passed for nothing. It was not the land but the people who complained that they had to pay tithes to a Protestant Church, though there was not a Protestant in the parish. REORDER OF DUBLIN. Mr. O'GORNIAN MAHON presented a petition from 55 persons confined in Newgate, Dublin, complaining that they could not obtain a trial, on account of the Judge being a Member of the House of Commons, as well as tl►e Recorder for the City of Dublin. He had also another petition from a constituent of the Mem ber for Dublin, complaining that that lion. Member could not do his duty as a Member of Parliament, be came he was obliged to attend to his duties as Recorder. Ile thought these two petitions clearly showed that the duties of a Judge and a Member of that House were in compatible. He hoped, therefore, for the interests of Ire land, the House would interfere as it did on a late occasion, and compel the lion. Member to give up either one situation or the other. Mr. LEFROY said the Recorder performed the duties of his office to the satisfaction of all parties. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON did not object to the man ner in which the duties of that office had been performed, but to the incompatibility of the two offices. Sir R. PEEL could nut think the petitioners suffered any injustice in the absence of the Itecorder, as it was known the Sessions were held at stated periods, and they could not be tried during the interval. Mr. HUME said is was a questiou well worthy the con• sideration of the House, and he was astonished to hear the late Minister of Justice get up and defend two ap pointments held by one person. It showed an utter dis regard to the interest* of the people. Sir R. PEEL, with much warmth, said he was ready to answer any charge that might be brought forward against him during the time he held office, but must protest against such insinuations at that of the Honourable Member, who had shown gross ignorance on the subject. Ife ought to have known that the Judges were independent of the Crown ; also that the Recorder was independent of it, and that there was no law to pre vent him sitting in Parliament, neither was there any law to insist on his giving up the Recordership, how could he, therefore, (Sir R. Peel) object to his sitting in that House. He might as well have moved that the Hon. Member for Middlesex should be turned out of it. All he would say on the subject was, if it were wrung let the House alter the law. Mr. O'OOItMAN MAHON said the Sessions were not held at fixed periods, as in London; but were ap pointed at the pleasure of the Recorder. After some further discussion the petition wu ordered to lie on the table. DUTIES ON .134RILLA. Mr. ELLICE moved the third reading of the Conso lidated Fund Bill. Sir GEORGE CLERK would take that opportunity of asking the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, if there were any truth in the report he had heard of its being the intention of Govern ment to reduce the duties en kelp. Ile had heard that the Officers of the Customs had receiveil orders to admit foreign bailie at a rate of (hay much below that ordered by the law. The House would recolle c t t h at t hi s su bj ect had formerly been under discussio n , an d that the duty bad been reduced from 111. to t3l. as. Th e latter duty bad been tlzed by the law, and those who were engaged in this branch of business depended on the provisions of the law being preserved. They were thrown into con sternation by the rumoured change. lie wished, there fore, to learn of the Right lion. Gyntionma if the repOrt wete true, and h 6 hoped to hear that it was incorrect, and that the Government had no such intention. Mr. P. THOMSON was sorry to say that the answer he had to give to the question of the Honourable Ba ronet was not likely to give him satisfaction, or to accord with his views. The Government meant to propose a Bill to the House for reducing the import duties on • barilla to 21. I Os., and in the mean time they bad given orders that barilla should be imported on payment of that duty, the importer giving a bond to pay the differenCe between that and any higher duty that might be imposed by Parliament. He had read over the negotiation which had been carried on for some time during last year with thekelp-inanufacturers,and he under stood that they were ready to admit barilla at such a rate of duty as he had proposed. He should be ready to justify the conduct of the Government when he brought in the Bill, but the House would remember that a discussion took place on the sut•ject last Session, and it was agreed that the duty on barilla should be reduced. The present Mini sters only followed the course sketched out for them by their predecessors. He had at the time contorted in the good reasons then assigned for this reduction, and he con curred in the opinions of those who thought that no in jury would he inflicted by the absolution. Ile thought, too, that the House bad consented to the principle, that the raw materials which entered into some of our more important manufactures should not lie subject to any heavy duties. Barilla was much employed in manufactures ; its use was extending, and, therefore, it appeared to the present Government as to the late Government, that the duties on it ought to he reduced. Mr. BERRIES admitted that it was a correct assertion of the Right lion. Gentleman, that it was the intention of his Majesty's late Ministers to propose to Parliament a reduction of the duties on barilla. A Bill had even been prepared for that purpose; and in the Bill he w•as free to confess that there had been introduced a provision some thing like the alteration now proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Thomson.) He begged, however, to say most distinctly, that, as Parliament were sitting at the time the alteration was proposed to be made, it would not have been attempted without the authority and consent of Parliament.—(Hear.) He said this much with reference to the case, not by way of censure, but as a warning to the members of his Majesty's Government for the future not to meddle with sources of taxation under the imme diate controul of the House.—(Hear, hear.) He must say, indeed, that unless the Right Hon. Gentleman was able to state some better remon for the course he had adopted than any they had yet heard, that there was no immediate justification for the haste with which he had acted, or for the manner in which the duty had been removed.—(Hear, hear.) Parliament had at all times been applied to in cases of this kind, when it ' happened to be sitting at the time the alteration was de tertnined on. He recollected, indeed, one case in which the Government had taken it on itself to adopt the course of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and that was with relation to Mr. Huskisson's plans on the subject of the silk trade ; but Parliament was not sitting, and although its sanction had been obtained immediately afterwards, upon a discus sion in-which the proposing of a reduction of the duties was admitted, yet the course had been found so incon venient, it was not afterwards resorted to. The Right lion. Gentleman concluded by declaring that he was favourable to the reduction, and so were the Members of the late Government ; but he thought the course adopted in the alteration one which should not have been made use of while Parliament was sitting, and as far as he could see, unoccupied with any business of importance, which would have delayed an application to it.—(Hear.) Mr. ROBINSON said he could not allow the opportu nity to pass without also expressing his objection to the course adopted by the Right lion. Gentleman (Thomson.) He protested against it as unjust, and calculated to pro duce mischief. This was the season at which the mer chants who dealt in barilla were in the habit of importing the quantity they required; and the Right Hon. Gentle man informed them that those who took out their barilla under the new regulations were to give a bond for the payment of duty, in the event of its being required, if Parliament refused to sanction the reduction made by the Treasury. Now he (Mr. Robinson) was at liberty to argue that this assent would be refits. tl. lie had a right, for argument sake, to assume it ; and what, then, would be the consequence of this refusal to those who took the burilla out for general consumption and sold it to the trade, when they were afterwards called on to make good their duty on their bond ?—(Hear.) This was one of the many instances of the inconvenience of the Right lion. Gen. tleman's interference in the present instance with a duty levied under the sanction of that House,.--(Hear.) Mr, P. THOMSON said be thought the Hon. Gentle man (Mr. Robinson) might have found a very sufficient justification for the course pursued by his Majesty's Go vernment in the observations which fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Berries). That Right lion. Gentleman had stated that his Majesty's late Go vernment were themselves prepared to bring in a Bill for the purpose of reducing the duties. That intention had been, indeed, formally announced in the lest Session of Parliament; and although not carried into effect, the con fusion and the indecision which it introduced into every branch of the trade had bean so extremely prejudicial, that many of the dealers, whose future condition the Hon. Member so much pitied, were already quite done up. As to the method by which the Government had effected the alteration, they had merely followed the precedents of former occasions of the same description, and he could pro duce ten cases of the adoption of a similar, and full five of them, too, without the intervening consent of Parliament. ---(Hear, hear.)—The Right lion. Gentleman, who had shown so much touchiness on the subject, mentioned the case of the Silk Duties; but there was also the precedent of the alteration of the Sugar Duties, on which occasion the Right lion. Gentleman (the then Chancellor of the Exchequer) sent an order to the Custom-house on the Ist of July, to take the duty according to the new scale, before the House gave its consent to the change. Mr. HERRIES—The Right lion. Gentleman seems to forget that the House had pasted a resolution sanction ing that scaly...--(Near, hear.) , Mr. P. THOMPSON then said, that, at all events, there were precedents for the course adopted, and he thought that it could not be denominated in the slightest degree unconstitutional, while, it must be admitted, it was productive of immediate advantage. Sir M. W. RIDLEY also protested against the course pursued by the Right Hon. Gentleman as in the highest degree dangerous and injurious, and he hoped, for the sake of the barilla-makers of this country, that the deter mination to alter the duty would undergo some recon sideration. Ile was convinced that if the basins manu facture of oar own shores were properly encouraged, that barilla would speedily become one of the staples of the country. They viewed, however, with the greatest alarm, the intended alteration of the duties, and he feared, if it was carried into effect, that the ruin of the home manu facturer must be the inevitable annottqueoce.—(Hear.) Mr. MABERLY expressed his surprise to • hear the Hon. Member for Newcastle (Sir M. Ridley) give utter. ance to sentiments so strange on the subject of trade and manufactures.—(Hear.) It was well known that foreign barilla was both cheaper and better than any which could be made its this country ; and if the home trade was to be encouraged, and the foreign sacrificed, it would merely compel the consumer of barilla to pay double pries for an inferior article, which could not be male to suit his purpose. Mr. COURTENAY spoke against the measure adopted by the Right iron. Gentleman, and observed, that although the late Government did pursue the same course with re spect to the silk trade, they never had recourse to it after wards. He regretted, indeed, that the Government had followed such a precedent in the present instance. Mr. ATT WOOD said that the five instances alluded to by the Right lion. Gentleman, even if they had been foi l ed to prove that there were precedents for the measure, formed no justification in his mind for an act of gross usurpation of the powers of Parliament by any Govern. ment, and more particularly by the Members of a Go. vernmeet scarcely yet fully installed in the offices to which they were appointed.---(Hear, hear.) In his opinion, it was not for the Members of a Government of that kind to take on themselves the responsibility of interfering with the exercise of one of the most important privileges of Parliament —the regulation of a great branch of corn taxation.—(Hear, hear.) It was for Parliament and not for the Goverment to judge of the fitness of the reduction of the duties. The Right lion. Gentleman, it was true, said that it was determined to submit the sub ject to Parliament, and that bonds were to be taken for the duties ; but he thought that the observations of the Member for Newcastle (Sir Ai. Ridley), with respect to the feelings and views of the barilla manufacturers of this country, would show how unwise and impolitic had been the haste exercised on the occasion, and that Parliament were not so fully prepared to sanction the alteration as the Right Hon. Gentleman imagined. Parliament justly and Eve with o t n o ly in to te b rf e er r e en tt v l e s a a o n r y i h m r p a o n sed ch o b f y wisely viewed with jealousy any att em p t on t h e part o f t h e assent. --(Hear.) i t ta ha f t ul t l a i x s a u t b io li n e UNDER-SECRETARY FOR IRELAND. Mr. G. IIANKES, on the question being again put, took the opportunity to ask a question of the Right lion. Gentleman opposite (Sir S. Graham), on the subject of the removal from Office of the Under Secretary of State for Ireland. He understood that Mr. Gregory, the gentle min who filled that office under several suet:mire Adnii. nistrations, had been dismissed by the present Govern ment. Now, as it was a recognised principle that Under- Secretaries, although removable by a new Government, were generally retained for public convenience, and be cause they were not supposed to be influenced by any po. litival partialities, the dismissal of Mr. Gregory, a man possessed of great experience in his office, able to serve the public, and willing to continue his services, had excited much surprise both in England and Ireland. Under such circumstances, and when the public convenience would have been consulted by retaining Mr. Gregory's services, it was desirable to know if it was true he had been re moved, on what ground the country had been subjected to the expense of the retiring allowance which that gentleman was entitled to demand.—( Hear.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he should endeavour to give a short answer to the somewhat lengthy question of the Hon. Member for Corfe Castle. It was quite true that Mr. Gregory had been removed from the office he held under the late Government, because it was the opinion of the present Government that the removal was necessary for the public service, and they had, therefore, taken up an themselves the full reponsibility which attached to it. He agreed with the Hon. Member that it was not usual to remove gentlemen placed in the situation of Under Secre tary, and he also agreed with him, that one of the reasons for not removing them was because they were not con• sidered open to political partialities; but the existence of political partiality in the present case was precisely the reason why the removal had taken place.—( Hear.) Mr. RUTH VEN approved highly of the conduct of the Ministers an this occasion, and declared it was absolutely necessary for the good Government of Ireland that the office of the Under Secretary of State, which bad long been a nest of partiality and party spirit, should be thoroughly cleared.—(Hear.) LEGAL APPOINTMENTS IN IRELAND. On the question of the second reading of the Consoli dated Fund Bill being again put, Mr. GEORGE DAWSON said that, as it was not probable be should have another opportunity for some weeks to come, he felt it necessary to trouble the House with a few observations on the recent appointments and changes in Ireland. Ile believed that all men were agreed on the question of the fitness of the persons who were ap pointed to fill these offices, and he was confident, indeed, that the Learned Gentleman raised to the Bench of the Common Pleas, would, in a very brief space of time, satisfy all of the propriety of his elevation. It was not so much to the men who were placed in the new situations, as to the manner in which they were so placed, that the objections were taken; and he believed he spoke the feel. ings of the people of Ireland when he said that the ap pointment of the Noble Lord (Lord Plunkett) to the head of the Court of Chancery had excited the utmost dissatis faction and astonishment. On a former occasion, he (Mr. Dawson) had asked a question from the Noble Lord (Al. thorp) with respect to that appointment, and the Noble Lord seemed to know very little about it ; but he had since been told that the Noble Lord was selected for the appoint ment because the Government had occasion for a political Judge. Now, in his humble opinion, Ireland had enough of political Judges ; and if the principle of selecting Judges for their politics was once to be entertained, they would have such flight from the Four Courts that the House would soon become tired of their company. It was now four years since Sir A. Hart had been appointed Lord Chan eeellor of Ireland, purely because it was agreed by all par ties that Ireland required a Judge who was not mixed up with politics, and they were new told that it was necessary to displace him for a:Judge who was mixed up with politics, and whose appointment was looked on by all parties, Ca tholic as well as Protestant, with equal dread and consterna tion. It was, indeed, notorious that Lord Plunkett was not popular with the Catholics, and looked on with dis trust by all the Protestants. They were told, however, in this country, that the Noble Lord's appointment was the more worthy of approbation because he must be ranked among the most strenuous supporters of the Established Church. Now it was well known by every body in Ire land, that Lord Plunkett was a Dissenter, and that he was not by any means attached to the professors of Protes tanism.—(Hear, hear.) They were told, however, that there was to be a saving of 2,0001. a year in the future salary of the Lord Chancellor. All this sounded well in words, but how did it correspond with their conduct in that House? some ten days ago the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer moved for a Select Committee of that Heim, to report on the amount which they considered fitting to be given to the Ministers of the Crown, because they thought that course would be more grateful to the country and prove more beneficial to the public service, than if they were to make the reductions themselves; but in this case, where the salary of a great law officer and a Member of the other House was concerned, they seemed to have no hesitation in fixing the amount of his salary themselves. There wan an inconsistency in this not a little remarkable, and even ridiculous. It appeared, indeed, as if Ministers merely intended to throw a tub to the whale, fur the gratification of the popular feeling of the mo ment; but that in any case where a point of patronage was concerned, they could come to a decisive con clusion at enee.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Either Minis ters had not turned their attention to the question of economy, notwithstanding all their promises—or they did not see their way clearly to a performance of them. At all events, he was sure that such proceedings would not satisfy the country. He now came to another point—.the retirement of the Chief Baron of the Exchequer in Ireland. They were told that the Chief Baron had ex pressed a strong desire to retire, and that twenty-five years of service gave him a: title to demand it. Now, when he (Mr. Dawson) was connected with the Go vernment, lae knew that it had then heard nothing of the disposition of the Chief Baron to retire—nothing of his indisposition to continue to preside on the Bench—and, in. deed, he aught say, that the Learned Judge was con. aidered to he as fit for the efficient performance of his duties as any other in the country ; hut now they were a ll on a sudden told that the Chief Baron was to retire, and to be bribed with a Peerage for his complaisance.- --(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Dawson) did not wish to cast any imputation on the Learned Chief Baron. He had eveu voted against the motion of the lion. Gentle man (Mr. Rice) at the time it was brought forward ; but was i t recollected by some of the Hon. Gentlemen opposite ? Did they remember what were the charges they brought forward against the Chief Baron, and supported by their deliberate vote in that House? Did they remember what they had urged against the Judge whom they now advised their Sove reign to raise to the Peerage as a reward for his re signing his seat at the time they required it? In the year 1823, some of the Hon. Persons who gave this advice brought forward a motion against the Chief Baron O'Grady, charging him with taking unnecessary and illegal fees in his Court of the Exchequer; a charge which if entertained by the House would have had no other effect than that of subjecting him to impeachment. The motion was lost, and the Chief Baron escaped the consequences of its being car ried—lie (Mr. Dawson) having, as he observed before, voted against both of the accusations. But what was the course adopted by the supporters of the motion ? They —the moment they obtained the power—reward with a Peerage the man whom they had proclaimed by their vote an extortioner of illegal fees.—(Hear.) And who were the persons who composed the minority to which he al luded? Why the very first name on the list he found to be that of Henry Brougham, now Lord High Chancellor of England and Keeper of the King's conscience-.-the very person whose duty it became, as a public officer, to affix the Seal to the Patent of Peerage of the Chief Baron, end whose duty it became also, as keeper of the Royal Conscience, to advise his Sovereign with truth and sin cerity on his sense of the fitness of the person who was to receive such a dignity at his hands. The next name he found in the minority was that of the Member for Mont gomeryshire (Mr. C. Wynn), who was also one of his Ma jesty's Cabinet Ministers, bound to advise him on this sub ject. Then there were among others the names of the Hon. MeMber for Limerick (Mr. S. Rice), and that of the Hon. Member for Dungarvon (Mr. S. Lamb) both of them connected with the Government, and one of them (Mr. Lamb) the Under Secretary for the Home Department--an office through which the patent of Peerage must pass, and in which the Hon. Member would have of course, the opportunity of pointing oat to his brother, Lord Mel bourne, the unfitness, in his opinion, of the Chief Baron, for the honour to which he was destined. These, how ever, were the men who at this particular time thought the Chief Baron no longer disqualified for the honours of the Peerage ; and who even recommended to their Sovereign that the person whom they had once stig matized by their vote should be now bribed with a Peerage to quit the Bench, and rewarded also for his compliance with 3,6001. a year, meddled on the country as his pension. He regretted the necessity of alluding to these matters at this moment, and of troubling the House, but he thought it of great importance that the public should estimate properly the value of the professions of the Ministry, and that they should be informed of the degree of respect with which a Whig Government regarded the honour of the Peerage, and of the regard which they really paid to the promises of economy and retrenchment. Mr. O'GRADY rose with some warmth, to express his surprise that the Right Hon. Gentleman should have ripped up accusations, exploded accusations of ten years' standing, in order to make a point against the Govern ment, without giving him (Mr. O'Grady) any notice of hie intention. Had the Right Ron. Outten= dons so, he ,bat i would ,fioe df any have crim i b r e u e li n ty, pr an ep d are th d at to the pr p o u n s e lle tha w t e tose mo l hilrlbp,ii i in.a,l o :t idpne u aw:e g ri at ajdhtai:ennit been ts,o f l,t o rtfrh r rLea w e.ognc o a ifuyt r f orward- those bribe to charges lea against ve the his Bench,f a t b il e: m acquitted ugl a y, of his 1 r eu o w i n n p lotda n e lf syd°. fathert e awi t o e olyeit c e wh l be or . placed e dtffi t ht h tic e t ( paho ll i 1 ehen n r e : : i srnm a nd e h r a r ei . agn i an ) d t sg ; jose i r w:v o W e‘ f ot‘t,b h s i foh t ua o h i atcr ec a shh o r i tf u " imrai r eb r a in s i e;gp acquired c i bai t uatn tatpodte retired, ,a t e in h h a a t t r h a a L c t e te n m r oef o a w nner. He knew he never would be sit. The which be did not know be would do, it was without arty consequence of his doing so. The Chief Berea after twenty-five years' service, he now accepted the offer, h o cpßxm.en f aeioaiuragvk i itiri m edi:(etnin n in.grai r ooti, o noatti p ynhnora r deu i ivsan e .o(t t itttiLG y riiadmm . oceß—rkatn boil' ( il oh ex p re ss in g e e of hf r a . d) Peel thish occu p iedi s H a sneud renewalt r r pt u hr s ei s oeio d nf ttpht givin g hrhaee ecibh H t ei so o rhav u geL s e_ bn e st ni li w too: o ttil o u thw id est feelings which had been roused on this omasion...(Heer , the Chief Baron. Sir JAMES GR :Anm A ita H thnho A er M began by complaining thanks plG;adowveastrankunelnneanvttolaildet aaiioltpripostobonertwunhti:tioothoef d a domestic calamity ; and his other Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) was also absent, from the pressure ni the moat urgent public business. The defence of the adenatte of the Government had, therefore , fallen on hint (Sir. Graham), one of its most unworthy Members; and ho must take leave to trouble the House with a very furl' eb* nervations on the extraordinary attack of the Right Ph Gentleman on the whole of its condu ct with reaped te the legal aointments. The Governmen t to 04° 0 had the h onour p to belong, was on its trial befog' country. It placed its title to the support of the Oen through whom it hoped to maintain i t s power, 01°' great principles—a determination to p roduce a all Reform is the Commons' House of Parliernee t ; a re ittomeiemmioaubkseeresnadldleidapvornauocrttitcsoahbmrlienakirnedtbauaincctkirp:enacieniathi: publicfotie riburthese:7.,..... and to secure the most rigid economy; and laetift . „ .. t ° twhiethtriaclontafidwenhciechtot they y e I There were the principles of the Goveratoes t •,_ '''' l4 ,. w o e p r p e or t t o ufon be ritith lu ti r ted, pledges they had given to their country. The Right ' i r k Gentleman says the House is to take the new Lavr ar painiraeata as a specimen of the manner in which the gentlemen mean to redeem those pledge*. Ift hefi e L l ' he was not to take the speech of that evening la I i r . " - men of the courtesy of the Right Honourable Gentlenuni or of the generosity of demeanour with which the sett 0 the Government were to be henceforth Modell (Hear, hear.)—He said Right Hon. Gentlemen--V one time thought he might have said Right 1 1 °13 2., el l s but if the honour and integrity of ever/ filled nte° l ; Majesty's present Government was to be l nd loolttitieetdlorwen: st.httle question, as he had heard that night, be feared be 1 ' 61 , 1. say friend no more. He could scarcely, .....tiodeealiv; lieve, that three short weeks could hare ~ ii „,,, i striking a change in the language of the Blrt to ' the able Gentleman, and so strong an oPP° llllk° , l , W e al Government, if be had not beard and °°° ll " 4 4 the lion. Gentlenian when opposed to the 011 101 1, ‘" );,„ late Mr. Canning, in the year 1626.--Ve°cLuellifisheit He must say that, situated as be (Sir Jaw. Grona °ll h i was, in the absence of so many of h i s collate ( t 0 thought he might have expected greater forbes Gentlo7raner ":, the Right Hon. Gentleman. T he Right Hon. had asserted that it was inexped ient to make thee:Ole:a ment of Judges political app ointments. In thelose rule he perfectly agreed with t he Right on. 13j 0"...: . , but the appointment of Lord Chancellor, both in ATI and in Ireland, was an exception to that rule: 11 0 ;1 0 the political counsellor of the Crown. Ihe ili eneo Pa il . yo u of Sir Anthony Hart was an exception to the in that respect. That ma t t er had ben expisix",o, e sty? where by the Noble Lord a t the head of his Maj . 1 ver nwent. Among the many evils which bed 1 11 70,i the non-sett'emeat of the Catholic question, eoo gre atest (and it was so state d at the time by O,J .fit' Hon. Meml , er for T amwor th) wee, t h a t it prevenn ver nment from being at liberty to choose ce n' rtai ofd a, whom, under other ciscu mstanres, they would hew t ir o thilly pointed. Lord Goderich had distinctly stated consideration bad placed h is Ma j esty's Goverpmett °„„ great difficulty. It rendered it expedient that W 4 thony Hart should remain Lord Chancellor of rtp . „, .1 hough Lord Plunkett would have been a prefer _wei r. " son for that situation. As to the expediency st 03_ , sent moment of having a Lord Chancellor of Ireland , ... 4 political opinions coincided with his blefeety's 011 agitated, sad that a powerful party , the Union, ~ . i ll that country in attenipting to diss o lve that a ter thought that all who agreed with him . i t ti .. of the Union with Ireland would be equees en . .: dismemberment of the empire, and th at it would kr.: ment, when it was consider.. -1 thatwailreblaunsdur sev.4o:l concur in the propriety of having such w het If that were the case, be begged t° ark ""Atiir would have been sound policy, for such a coir;h e tion as 1,400/. a-year, at such a critical women; 1, present, to deprive the Lnrd Lieutenant of Irel . an !L i ; injurious an a repeal of the Union withScoatlactotr; valuable services of an individual, st,hose splendid .1010/ had so frequently been witnessed is that Houle 11 . 7.1 i. whom he might justly say, that in point of taler r I,7ii quence, and Statesman - like qualities, he lad 0 , f: ,- , the individuals, snd of their qualification% I°°....°)°:e p lr o e i l n a t n ir d e , nt a s n t. d Anioagsisutpraetresio,r iLnotriadispicounuknettre; iio6wit:Ptiroff great advantage. The Right Hon. Gentleman 1729ei and the objection came with a singular Oa. ni t ir who had been so staunch as Orangenette-40!:.:ittr pointment of Lord Plunkett to be Lord Cbancelll7.o, land would be peculiarly obnoxious to the ll 7 pi Why, he (Sir James Graham) bad Yet to !c ar e ' i 3O' could not, he would not believe, that the Catho o ",7 4 hate land would view with an evil eye, one who ° I ; oft among their moat triumphant advocates, an°. the WI they were under the greatest obligation. Ilt" t he thmey were under time greatest ohlsg ,stiofl' ~ion thiSt the Hon. Gentleman also expressed his pet'' the pritiaisas f N o o u b t l h e t L m o a r n d fu t i e ly ould he equally disliked hr u te . Rho' of the Church of England, as being e P ia" r 'tt W he he begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet to h ' a d pot ther, when his Noble Lord was his Colleg e u if e g_. D i reett had maintained in in fathvoeurbaotftiteshe 7"r h o i ta ch t ts ' hit l'e7 lit b. tsr lisb Yt i°ltiir: was surely no bad bargain for in Ireland ; and whether he had not in .. 4 7 A° evinced an equal attachment to that establish:7;oot it his Noble Friend in another Pla ce bad re to °Pill the t a s p a p y ointment anything, o f M u the services of such a man, and at t b ee — eset tct .; the P: b a l oi ti al! i f permanent saving of 8,0001. a-year, ot,f o r i vet t a pension of 3,600/. a-year, during the y fir a inun i tg it ' f Justice So of t much heco f m o r mo t n h e P s p l itaaosi,ntirr:enwtooti..:oo.. no 0 0 : 10... vr ie l hOinaoh a ert it Y ht t o t b 7 ....o..n.. „ se ie sv ree e. I; _ a i - et i himself acknowledged thatrithDewas uoCrrir'..- courre°- retirement of the Lord Chief Baron also 1w5 ° 11 .7 0 . 1 ,1 told the ro ot fro , * quite independent of say political c° yet suggestion of that retirement &ai l° ? R i li bt ilf: his Majeaty's present Government. lb! .„ 1 iett°,7, - , Gentleman said, that he was not assure 0' ,opted 1-d of the Chief Baron to retire until he yrs ° i .pre Peerage. The late Government had, holl'i" ; c ot 0 ,c ) ; to the Chief Baron to retire; and all that the t P ts ii toir vernment had done was to adopt such toe' si nti t to Or, render that proposition effective. I Vit h , r ia , ao e4 ` de i cil ' et k tiring pension, the length of the 'Chit' ''''''' 104 10 t had entitled him to demand that whenever botdoirenit° fit. The general disposition of his IklajeetY'l i on, bef A l . to retrench as much as possible, had, in Lh utensi. ° P ot , reds very unequivocally evinced. They had ol te p i t , co el, ° the offices of Treasurer of the Navy, it i d of' the Ordnance, Vice-Treasu rer of Irelan d'a master General of Ireland. • Mr. G. LAMB begged to say a few yra d l e :is el: to what had fallen from the Right Ho' Gen • t „erlYt W of site, respecting the opinions of the small i di l atfoo dr , seven or eight years ago, had voted on t he; tre(r.., which the Right Hon. Gentleman alluded. .7;41, Lamb) believed that he was almost the onlY IlL vi e ds sent who had belonged to that smafl m inority' "ow 7 0 bility of defending their conduct devolved or li o 00 0 1 0 0 trusted he was not unequal to that task; NI ithi etb,hi it would have been more accordant to justice, ° f i g , if .„„' perhaps to the Right Hon. Gentleman's vital' ° ho er Right Hon. Gentleman had abstained fretst°°cri that subject in the Absence of those who nivroorett,4 tent to answer. He confessed that he was or" it ir;"i nished than at the proposition which hid be eP nri pet„ r it by the Right Honourable Gentleman. 'O lt 'hid ri i e was to the effect, that although the 1 0°14s chief P . al mined on the occasion in question, that the „..emlctj, should not be put on his trial, he should ne7,0007,) treated as if he had been not only tried b il d ol , lo. Wee the acquittal by the House nothing? 11 ° i ` no ecetiri had always been taught to consider a eer. °ll ,,ioo 17 1 401. fore he had been tried ; the Right Bon. Gen t ' a Af ir o i. to consider persons guilty after the y bad b, 0010 But because he (Mr. Lamb) had bee n one ci c hleflat nority who bad formerly vo ted for putting th i on to on his trial, was he therefo re ever a f te r to c ief o rio Learned Person as unfit for office or for 1 11 : /kil l . hunt and persecute him to the end of hie 11 , 4 0 eie not a very c lear recollection of the 40100