The Sun. — London, England, 1831-04-16 00:00:00

wilitee went through the clauses of the Bill, and their •ea't with the schedule. This was so where the matter in the schedule only was in the schedule which really belonged to it. But the change in the present Bill, Teferriag to schedule A. ought, consistently with the ordinary course, to have named the certain ho. roughs that were to be disfranchised. This principle was adopted in some parts of the Bill in regard to certain places ; for instance, the • places where Members were to be given, such as Yorkshire, Lincoln shire, and so on ; therefore his (the Speaker's) first difficult' : was the impossibility of the Committee deeidlet, on the first clause without previously deciding 'on schedule I A. Schedule A. would have to he ta'ken as so many lines in the first those, and the boroughs being ar ranged alphal , etically, he :hoer ht the Committee would hsv-.! to begin with the fire; ►.tot taking any out of their prece. dence, and decide upon the whole going regularly through with them. This being done, if the names of any boroughs were left in the schedule, then the question would he ' whether the clause ought to stand or not—if none Were left, then there would he no necessity for the clause. PROVISION FOR THE QUEEN. Lord ALTHORP moved the Order of the Day foe the House going into Committee to take into consider:eon his Majesty's most gracious Message, that the Th:mse would appoint a provision for the Queen, in case her Majesty should survive the King. The SPEAKER ha-ring le't the Chair, and the House hari•og resolved itself into a Committee, Lord ALTHORP thought there would be no difference of opinion upon the proposition he was about to bring for•- ward. Whatever differences might have existed respect ing some parts of the Civil List, no differences had been manifested respecting any thing that related to his Majesty's personal comforts and conveniences. This hav ing been so, there could not but be the same unani mity of feeling towards her Majesty, than whom Ito Queen bad ever conducted herself more satisfactorily to the subjects of this country.—(Cheers.) The propo sition should be in strict accordance with precedents. The dowers granted to Queen Caroline and Queen Charlotte were each 100,0001. a year, besides, in the latter instance, appropriate residences. In the present instance no diffi culty could occur, either with respect to dowry or the country residence; for it would occur to all that the amount ought to be as much as on former occasions, and that Bushy would be the place most likely to de agreeable to her Majesty for her country resi dence. The only difficulty arose as to the town residence. It happened that at present Parliament had no power to dispose of any residence calculated to ac commodate her Majesty ; but the house he should propose was Marlborough House, though that house was at the present time let under lease to the Duke of Marlborough, which did not expire till 1835. Should however circumstances require it, provision could be made for her Majesty in some other way prior to the expiration of that lease. He should therefore wove that a provision he made to the Queen in case she should survive his Majesty, amounting to the suns of 100,000/. per annum during her life, with which to support her royal dignity—that the said son s should he paid out of the consolidated funds of Great Bri tain and Ireland—and that Bushy House, lands, and park, and Marlborough House, should he set apart for her Ma jesty's use, After a few words from Mr. C. PELHAM, which were not audible in the gallery, . - The resolution was agreed to ; and the House having resumed, the report was ordered to be received on Monday next. NEWFOUNDLAND. Mr. ROBINSON tonk that opportunity to ask the Noble Lord (Howick) whether Government contemplated any medsures with respect to Newfoundland? He knew that the inhabitants of that island required a separate Le gislature, but he did not ask the view of the Government on that question. Lord HOWICK said that the state of Newfoundland was under the consideration of the Government ; but he did not think it would be necessary to apply to Parliament to sanction any of the measures which they might deter mine to carry into effect. Mr. HUME presented a. petition flan Glasgow, signed by all the most respectable merchants and trailers of that city, in favour of the Reform Bill. NEGRO SLAVERY. Mr. FOWELL BUXTON then rose, and spoke to the following effect in rising to submit to the House my motion respecting the abolition of negro slavery, I beg, in the first instance, most sincerely to declare that I do so without the slightest feeling of hostility towards the West India interest, and without the slightest disposition to cast reproach upon them, or indeed upon any other per sons. The West India planters are involuntarily entingled in the existing system. They are engaged in it not by choice, but by inheritance. Far be it from me to charge them with being destitute of the ordinary feelings of humanity. I k n o w among t h em many gent l emen of as high honour, of as great integrity, of as warm humanity, as any of those whom I address. There are many of these gentle tn,n who see the existing evils as clearly as any man; and who are anxious to remedy those evils as far as they can be remedied without inflicting personal ruin upon them selves, and beggary upon their families. In what I have to say then I do not mean to say anything painful or re proachful to the individuals to whom I allude. I complain of the system to which they belong ; and on that point I have no alternative hut to speak fairly out. Sir, the com plaint of the West India proprietors is that we take a single net, and that we infer from that a general and almost a universal system of oppression and cruelty towards the Owes. That, however, is not the argument which I mean to use. I utterly disclaim all reference to indivi dud cases of atrocity. if it were necessary, I might cite an abundance of cases which would excite the astonish ment and call down the loud approbation of the House. But this I disclaim. Nor will I allude to the painful fact, that when any act of enormity has been committed, it has seldom happened that the West India proprietors have not adopted the cause of the criminal, and made his case their own. Those who have attended to this subjcct well knots how prolific the West India Islands have been of the most enormous abuses. But it is not on those—it is not on the fact that those abuses have been vindicated and ap proved by the West India proprietors, that I rest my case. My case is, that the whole slave population of the West Indies are in a miserable condition. My case is, that the whole system pursued in the West Indies with respect to the slave population is so destructive of their moral and physical welfare that it ought to be abolished. I repeat, that it is not on those particular cases of cruelty which we all know do exist, that I ground my motion, but on the general condition of the negro. Sir, it cannot be con cealed that there is considerable difficulty in arriving at the truth with respect to the real condition of the negro in the 'West Indies. One class of witnesses on the subject de dare that the negroes in the West Indies are in a state of surpassing happiness; and that although thei , retieally speaking, they may be subject to some inconveniences, those inconveniences are of no great amount, and are amply compensated by the positive and practical blessings which they enjoy. On the other hand, it is stated by witnesses of the highest character that the compensation is nothing and that the slave (even in his Present improved state) is in the lowest state of moral de'raseinent, and of physical Nvretchedneits. Under this conflicting evidence, it would be extremely desirable if we could obtain any test on the subject; if we could obtain any full, fair, and unequivo cal proof of the real state of the negro population of the IVest Indies. There is this test—the rate at which that population has increased or decreased. It is a doctrine admitted by all parties that, under all circumstances, except those of extreme misery, population must increase. Such is the law of nature, and it is con tsrinable to the experience of all mankind. That law of increase may be interrupted, but it can be interrupted only in cases of extreme misery. Now I beg the atten tion of the House to this test. I presume it wiil be a sa tisfactory criterion to the lion. Gentlemen opposite. They complaincase of the difficulty of obtaining a hearing of th e ir It must be ad vantageous to t h em, t h ere f ore, to fur nish a test, the value of which cannot be comprehended by the unthinking, and can be estimated only by the thoughtful. It is besid e s Indies alone, but one of invariable it applicable to the West i o a t hi n e ' reference. Sir, it bas been said that the s treng l th a o:f peumr ease depends on popular feeling. I deny this. ; will to reason alone. I will attempt no excitement • • • I will refer myself to no use no ad captandum. to• popular impressions On pies , facts, and on facts only I rely. si r, w " -• ' h av e in the West however, sugar Indies twenty colonies. They are n ot al e i , colonies. Four of them produce no sugar! another a very small quantity. Whether or not the mortality in those four colonies was greater or smaller, I will not • inquire. Fourteen colonies, however remained. Ti me question is, whether in those colones the sl ave population hJY increaesd ? lire answer is, it has not increased, it ha a not been stationary, it has decreased. Not only has it de creased, but it has decreased at a rate so rapid, that I con fess it surprises me, and I,.am sure will astonish the House. In the last ten years the slave population in our fourteen colonies has decreased by the number of 45,800 persons. The Hon. Gentleman opposite shakes his head. I only wish he would investigate the fact. I will let Jinn see the documents from the West Indies on which I rely for my year; fourteen t , declaration, that during the last ten y colo nies have lost 45,800 of their slave population. If Ido not prove that there has been a great decrease, and that the decrease has been what 4 have stated, I shall prove no thing. In the first place I will instance the island of Tobago. cannot take a better example. It is a co lony exceedingly well circumstanced. Ten years ago the female part of the slave population in the island of To bago exceeded the male. It is a colony in which the Hon. Member opposite bittuself ago :Imes that the treatment of the slaves has been vntirtSiful in the highest degree. In the year 1819, the slave population of Tobago was 15,470 to which must be added the importation, to the reanaleer'a 177, and from which must be deducted the: '24kortation, to the number of 27, and the mannenisminris, to the number of' 172—leaving the pnrmlation, at that period, 15,415, By the retttrrea of 1829, it appears that the slave ...apula tion of Tobago, at that period, moo:toted `Only to 12,556 ; being a decrease in the ten of 2,592, or a sixth of the whole. I chalhenke inquiry into the exact accuracy of this statement. That is the fact ; I make ,r to the paasions or to the feelings of the : but I simply describe the destruction cret.e.kied by the slave system. What I have state 4 it h - rate of destruction, which if it be permitted tas *eontinue, will soon sweep away the whole black inhabitants of Tobago, and exterminate the Whole negro population of that island. Sir, I believe the pro prietors in the island of Tobago are es respectable a body of men as any body of proprietors in the West Indies. I believe that they are as raercifel in the treatment of their slaves as the difficulties of their situation permit them to be. In support of that opinion, I refer to the auahoe'ity of the Govet-nor of that island, who, in th'e Year 1829, stated officially, " that there ev.isAil a liberal feeling with respect to the slave?, towards whom no mo tive existed for unnecessary slavery." I do not believe that there have been any instances for tin • neceseary cruelty towards slaves in Tobago, I admit all that the Hon. Gentleman opposite may be ready to say on that subject, and I acquit the planters of any dis position to treat the slaves with unnecessary cruelty. But, Sir, the more you raise the tharacter of the planter's, the more you must deprecate the system which, notwithstanding that character, has been productive of such pernicious efr,ects. It appears that in spite of all the mercifnl disposition of the planters of Tobago, in ten year:: one-sixth of the slave population of that island has perished. Although, therefore, there may have been ne unnecessary oppression, it is clear that there has b: en a necessary oppression, extensively destructiae of human life, and whirl ought to be put an erd to. I repeat that 1 do not appeal to the feelings ~•,r to the passions of the House, but to stubborn frets, incapable of contradiction.-- I will now refer to Demerara. The slave population of Demerara in 1817 was 83,872 ; taking into the calcula tion the exportation, the importation, and the manumis sions. In 1829 it was only 69,166 ;so that 13,906 went in the interval. At Ttitddad there were, in 1816, 25,000 slaves, out of which number 6,000 went in twelve years. Why, Sir, this is a rate of mortality, which, in a few years would render the crowded city of London—would render the whole world--desolate, In one of these three colo nies they were so well aware of the rapid diminution of the slave populationth e fact is the same in all three—but in one of them, Trinidad, they are so well aware of it that as the. Noble Lord opposite knows, the planters of that island have endeavoured to repair the evil by a considerable illicit importation. The fact is, that in that island the slaves, as the late Mr. Marryat said, " die off like rotten sheep." Sir, if we allow this system to proceed, we are consenting to the extinction of the whole negro population of the West Indies. In the three islands to which I have particularly alloded, a reduction has taken place in less that ten years of 22,000 out of 100,000. The whole ;due population of the West Indies was at pre sent 45,800 less in number than it was ten years ago.-- Such are the facts. Unless I have forged the documents, which I presume will not be imputed to me, such are the facts. I proceed to state facts with respect to the colonies generallr,' oh which I am not able to detail numbers with so much precision as with respect to the three particular colonies to which I have already adverted. The main fact is, that since the abolition of the slave trade 100,000, that is to say a seventh part of the slave population of the West Indies, has been destroyed. At that period the num ber was upwards of 700,000 ; ten years afterwards it was 650,000 ; it is now less than 600,000. If this be per mitted to go on—if the House allow the continuance of such a system, I beg leave humbly to represent to them that they will sign the death-warrant of many hundreds of human beings. If there were no other prospect of the extinction of slavery, it would be found in the rapid ex tinction of the negro race. Sir, I have hitherto argued this question most unfairly towards my own case. I have argued it as if a population ought only to maintain its numbers. I have said nothing of the increase which ought to have taken place in the population. The law of na ture is, that a population should increase—not that it should be stationary, hut that it should increase—not that it should decrease. In all countries, except those in which the population are drained off by extraordinary ch.! _ . cumstancea, that law invariably operates. To avoid all possibility of computation on the ground that I am com paring blacks with whites, that I am comparing the poor with the rich, that I am comparing the inhabitants of one soil and climate with the inhabitants of another, I will again refer to the colonies of Demerara and Trinidad. The free black and coloured population of Demerara, in 1811, amounting to 2,980, in 1825, to 4,700, being an increase of 1,720, or, deducting the manumissions, of 1,282. While the black free population thus in creased at the rate of from 1,000 to 2,000, that black slave population decreased at the rate of from 1,000 to 500. I might illustrate this position further by a reference to the Maroons of Jamaica ; but I prefer an in stance more conclusive in showing the uniform increase of free blacks, and the uniform decrease of blacks in a state of slivery. I allude to the island of Hayti. While the population in the slave colonies has been unable to main tain its numbers, while it appears by official locuments, that in the course of the last few years above 100,000 negroes have been imported into those colonies, the free black population of Hayti, which in 1804. was only 423,000, was found twenty years afterwards to have in creased to 935,000. Those are the two facts on which I mainly dwell. In slavery the blacks have not been able to maintain their numbers—in freedom they have doubled their numbers. In Demerara, blacks in slavery have decreased rapidly—in Hayti blacks in freedom have increased rapidly. I ask the Hon. Gentleman op posite for a satisfactory explanation why, in the island of Trinidad the free blacks increase in number two arid a half per cent. per annum, while the other blacks decrease in a similar proportion ?—(" Look at Barbadoes,"observed some Hon. Gentleman on the opposite side of the Houae.) The Hon. Gentleman desires me to look at Barbadoes. Sir, there is a great difference between the two islands. Although the population of Barbadoes, as compared with the population of Trinidad, is 78,000 to 25,000, yet there is not a quarter of the sugar grown at the former island that there is at the latter. I do not mean to allude to the colonies which are small sugar growers. Ore Trinidad merchant does as much business in the article of sugar, as four or five in Barbadoes. If the Honourable Gentleman is anxious for mere particular in formation on this fact I will give it to him. The popula lation of Barbadoes is 81,000—the population of Trinidad is 24,000 ; being only about a third. The average quan tity of sugar exported annually from Trinidad is 394,000 . hogsheads, while the average quantity of sugar exported annually from Barbadoes is only 298,000 hogsheads. These, Sir, arc facts on which I defy contradiction. I have shown, in the first place, that in the fourteen W e st _ . India colonies to which I have allude,' there has been a decrease of population wbere there ought to have been an increase. I have shown, in the second place, that in the same colonies the free black population has greatly in creased. In the third place, I have instanced the case of Hayti in support of my argument. And with respect to Hayti li.t it be remembered that the black inhabitants of that island are said to be in a state of great demoralization —that in that island there is no commerce, no cultivation of sugar, no civilization. The population is admitted to be slothful, sensual, and improvident. Vices such as these are inimical to population. It is, therefore, an ad ditional fact, of great importance to my argument, that even under such disadvantageous circumstances the popu lation of Ilayti has greatly increased. If slavery, there tore, be net justly chargeable both for the decrease in po pulation which it causes, and for the increase in popula tion which it prevents, I wish to know with what any system is chargeable ? The slave population of the colo nioi ten years ago was 650,000 in round numbers. If the blacks in slavery had increased as the free blacks have incredsed, that population should have added 200,000 to its number ; whereas that num ber hail been diminished by 45,000. To keep pari passe with the free blacks, the blacks in slavery should have in created 20,000 a year; whereas they have decreased 4,000 a year. They should have increased fifty a day, whereas they have decreased ten a day. For this effect, this striki ng except i on to t h e un i versa l l aw o f nature, ‘h there..ati must he a caus e. I t cou ld not occur b y acc id ent . What the cause a I will tell the House what it is not. It is not , as it has been said to be, any disproportion be e: n e; um r h r ydeficieney i n th e cum b er o f f ema l es . I t l vee ls n I t ‘t he th B of 3 male slaves was 295,909 ; the number id f. male slaves fore, of thi s d ecrease in thOeo,9lv 30. The cause, there population is not any disproportion b e t ween t h e sexes, slave is away its thousands, it i s not climate, noti war, sweeping any one thinks that the two la s t cireunist! , : c o es t soil. If may ope rate injuriously upon the slave population, I ask lairn why, under the same circemStatices, the tree blank population has so much increased ? Sir, the real cause is the forced labour in the sugar colonies, and nothing else. The law of nature would be too strong for any other cause. It too strong for climate, witness Bencoolen. It is too strong for war, witness Africa. It is too strong for tarlp. life, witness the Maroons of Jamaica, It is too strong for vie'e and misery, witness qtyti. All such itnpedimtiats yield to the Lase bf natuie; but the law of nature ye , lds to th . "-, cultivation of sugar in the sugar eolon'.es. Where the hlcks arc free they iner'eis. Climate, soil, war, vice, misery, are too f ee bl e ' to s t em the current of es _ tur . ,, But let there be a c h a nge in pn l ) - ornttie cumstance ; let the population be tl.te sa, . i ue,n every respect, only let them to slaves instead of freemen, : and the tqr'ren'‘.; is immediately stopped. It is fore of laheur in the sugar colonies, and nothing else, that has so . destructive an influence on the population. That infl uence, so fatal to human life is confined to the field does not affect the domestic slave!. It in t remarkable fact that the children cf tieren ad not feel this influence until after a certain time of life. Up to ten years of age the nninber of deaths is not larger than a just proportion; th e y then enter on the cultivation of sugar, and the consequence which I have described ensues. These, Sit., are my proofs that forced labour is the cause of the evil. There now comes another imPoetant consideration. Why is the cul tivAtton of sugar by the slaves so destructive to them ? A West Indian of no mean authority—a merchant of 28 years' standing in the island of Trinidad, in giving his evidence before the West India Committee, let out the secret. It is the intensity of their labour. Ile wan asked if free labourers could not cultivate sugar? His answer was no, if they were ejepected to work sixteen or eighteen hours in tlfe day, like the slaves ; but if they were ex pected to work only ten hours in the day, they could. Ac cording to Mr. Mitchell, a degree of physical exertion is required from the slaves which the human constitution cannot endure. Mortal diseases are the necessary conse- quences in those countries of such intense and unrequited toil. Sir, lam dealing fairly with this question. Ido not say that the destruction which takes place among the slaves is attributalle to the whip. I have heard soma good friends to abolition out of doors talk of the whip as the cause. 1 do not believe that it is the whip; but I believe that it is oppres sive labour. Terrible accounts have been received within the last day or two, of the mortality among the slave population. But, Sir, although I do not say that the cant , : of the decrease of the sl ive population is flogging, the case is bad enough without that ; yet I umu•t observe that punishments take place in the West ladies with a frequency that it is painful to notice. In Trinidad, which was an ameliorated colony, and in which a check bad been given to severity, there were 11,131 plantation punishments in two years. In Demerara there were in that time 21,000 cases of punishment. Notwithstanding all the Orders in Council, such are the facts. Ido not mention them to excite horror at the extent of torture which is thus inflicted ; although it might justly be a sub ject of consideration whether we ought to tolerate a sys tem under which 21,000 punishments, averaging twenty lashes each, have been inflicted in two years in one co lony ; but I mention them to show what the sj stem of slavery is under its best and most mitigated form. If such severity be necessary, in what a degraded condition must the unfortunate negroes be placed, if nut necessary, words cannot express, or the heart of man conceive the wicked ness of those by whom it is inflicted. I must say, how ever, that from all the accounts which have reached me I believe that such is the present condition and character of the slave population of the West Indies that punish ment is found but too frequently necessary. 1 will not adduce any instances of individual cruelty, although it will be admitted there is at this moment some temp tation—nor will I refer to any particular murder, because I think our cause has rather been injured than served by bringing such things forward in too prominent a manner. But, Sir, I take my stand upon the fact, that there has been an immense destruction of hu man life in our sugar colonies. It is a melancholy fact, that forty-five thousand innocent persons wine found to have perished at the end of ten years. Having now briefly and temperately, but, I fear, feebly, explained my views of the subject, it only remains for me to say, that I have not brought forward this motion from any feeling of hostility to the West India interests, or from any party or personal motives, but from the conviction that there is a destruction of human life going on, which demands the attention of the Government. I hope the resolutions I intend to submit will appear temperate, although I declare myself no friend to ameliorating measures in which I Lave no faith. Ido not think that by such measures the mortality can be re pressed. Besides, I must tell Hon. Gentlemen that I look upon the eeslavine of our fellow-men ass crime of the deepest dye; and I therefore consider that it should be dealt with, not by palliatives, but by destroying it alto gether. I accordingly felt it my duty, in spite of painful obstacles, to bring the question broadly before the House. That there are many obstacles I have said, and amongst the most considerable of these is to be found the argument so frequently and strongly urged—that property should be held sacred, and left untouched. But have we not aim idy acted too long in obedience to this principle ? Have we not within the last ten years, sacrificed forty-five thousand innocent men to the respect for property and to vested rights? Are we to go on in this course till the whole race of slaves is eNtsrminated? No, Sir, however cautious we may be in dealing with property, I say it is not to be protected at all hazards, and at the expense of all crime. There is a greater consideration than the pro tection of property—that is, the preservation of the lives of innocent men. The men exposed to perish are British subjects, and we are bound to save them, however useful the system that would destroy them may be to individuals. The lion. Member then moved a resolution to the follow ing effect:_" That the House had, on the lath of May, 1823, recognized, to the full extent, the expediency of abolishing colonial slavery, and passed a resolution, re commending measures to be taken with that view ; but that, during the eight years which had since passed, the Colonial Assetnlilies had not adopted adequate measures to carry this recommendation into effect ; that the House was impressed with a conviction of the impolicy, inhu manity, and injustice of colonial slavery, and would proceed forthwith to devise means for abolishing it throughout the British dominions." Lord MORPETH, after saying, that, in seconding the motion, he would imitate the moderation of his Hon. Friend who had brought it forward, proceeded to observe, that being so closely connected with a Cabinet Minister, it might be supposed he was acquainted with the course which Government proposed to pursue upon this question but the fact was, that he came forward without the au thority or knowledge of the Administration. He hail even abstained from inquiring how they intended to deal with his Hon - urable Friend's proposition, in order to leave his independence and separateness still more in disputable. But he had another and more close con nection in the House than the one to which he alluded, and which qualified him to come forward on thin occa sion—his connexion with the county he had the honour to represent. The 500 petitions he had presented, the ",..neral and ardent feeling, the uplifted voice of the county of York, urged him forward—the county which selected and still referred to Mr. Wilberforce as its favourite repre sentative. That feeling he shared, and he adopted the re solutions of his Hon. Friend—resolutions which he con sidered eminently deserving the consideration of the House, for while they did not abandon the high ground, or give up any princip;e, they did not rush with a blind and un cilculating zeal to a decision which in its suddenness might be ruinous. The principle was upheld, but the steps by which it was to be carried into effect were con- signed to the responsibility of Government and the legis lative portion of Parliament. The resolution invited de liberation ; but it proclaims it is the duty of the House to do something, and pledged it in the face of mankind to perform that duty. There was not, he considered, any diffi!rence between the state of things at present and in 1823 ; if, therefore, they commanded then, they should execute now. Although he admitted the question was involved in much embarrassment and difficulty, yet the system was founded on a principle of such intolerable wrong that they were compelled to meet it. The difficulties and embarrassments he had said were great, but by their faint heartedness they had increased them. But if they would, on the contrary, only grapple with them boldly, they would be assuredly reduced. In a letter addressed to the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth (for the contents of which be was not of course answerable), many difficulties of a strange nature were pointed out. Mr. Gladstone, a Liverpool mer chant, said in this " do not emancipate the children, because if you do, you will excite dissatisfaction in the minds of the adult slaves." But he (Lord M.) asked how it was possible to get rid of that as long as negroes were per mitted to get children ? M r . G ladstone again said, " Do not fix a p . eriod . for emancipating th e negroes , f or if you do, they will be impatient, and y ou h ave no reason to g i ve for nut emancipating them immediately.," How could this ever be got rid of until the slaves were convinced that liberty was not more advantageou s th an s l avery ? A ga i n it was argued, that their African constitution and ttopicai climate were a great obstacle to their emancipation ; but he never would admit that the want of qualifications which slavery could not engender, should he urged as an argu ment against these -unfortunate persons. And as to climate, he asked, did it affect the energies of Toussaint or Bolivar He would say with the Poet— " Unmanl!, thought! what seasons can controul, What fancied zone can circumscribe the soul, Which, conscious of the source from whence she springs, ity,Reasen Resolution's *in*, Spite of her frail companum, .dauntless go s O'er Libya's deserts and through :lembla's snows P Mr. Gliditone farthei• said, in respect to slavery, that it iyaa net for him to attempt to determine the system of Almighty God, but that it appeared he permitted slavery in certain climates since the origin of society. Yes, and Almighty God permitted the inquisition, and permitted Pagan deentess, and Mahommedan fanaticism, and Christian bigotry, and the scourge of tyrants, and the rage of multitudes, and the horrors of wars ; but far be from him the philosophy which inferred from the fact of the permission the possibility of the sanction.—( Hear.) Touching the question of Froperty and vested rights, he stated that he had sin objection to a rational compensation. But he wished to see the present system abolished as speedily as possible, for he considered it alike injurious to both par ties interestedto the slave in his unrewarded toil and un requited wrongs, and to the planter, because it con fers upon him a power, of the merciful and discreet administration of which human nature is not capable. This made him despair of ameliorating measures flowing from the spontaneous bounty of the local Legislatures. Their modes of thinking on these subjects were different from ours—they partook of the same niture, and shared the sonic passions and sympathies with ourselves; but he knew that if even we, ourselves, were free from the operation of law, and custom and opinion, with the spirit of society, running in one direction, could not fail to be affected by it. The planters, in fact, had their eyes not averted, but blinded ; and their hearts not hardened, but deadened to the system which they saw pursued around them. For his part, he considered the system laboured under the displeasure of the Omnipotent. He therefore exhorted them to undertake, in a sober spirit, the great work of national reparation, and in the words of Holy Writ, given under both dispensations, he would say, "Let us bind up the broken heart. Lst us give liberty to the captive, and open the doors of the prison fur him who is confined. Let us strive that from those who live under our rule no sigh should reach us. Let us give them that liberty which is their birth-right here, and endeavour to bestow upon them that religion which may be a blessing to them hereafter. Let us make to rise around us the anthems of the free in the confident hope that we shall be conferring a blessing on both portions of the empire— the colonies and the mother country—and that we shall receive an abiding and abounding reward. And that, at last, happen what may, we shall enjoy the proud con solation of having done that which seemed to be our duty, and we may trust the event elsewhere." Mr. K. DOUGLAS, after expressing his satisfaction at the temper and moderation displayed by the mover and seconder, and observing that it was thus only an embaras sing and difficult question could be advantageously dis cussed, proceeded to remark that the lion. Member for Weymouth had taken new ground in dismissing all cases 1 of individual cruelty, which had formerly been prominently held forth, and in entirely casting away the resolution of 1823 (to which he had before acceded), and pressing for the immediate emancipation of the slaves. The Hon. Member now rested his case upon the simple fact, that the system, pursued in the sugar islands, was destructive to human life; and, founded upon this, he moved a resolu tion, which being interpreted, with reference to his speech, declared that there should be an immediate abolition of negro slavery. Now, in: his opinion, the Hon. Member should have moved for a Committee to establish the grounds from which hie inferences were drawn. He admitted, that in the three sugar colonies, Demerara, Trinidad, and Tobago there had been a greater decrease in the number of slaves. In Tobago, there were at one period more males than females; but the contrary ryas now the fact. He had taken much trouble in investigating the subject, and if the lion. Member would move for an inquiry, he would be most happy to second him. But to proceed—in Demerara there had been, four years ago, 37,000 males, which were since reduced to 32,000 males. The reduc tion had been in the same proportion in Trinidad ; but go to Mauritius, a newly-settled colony, and they would find that there were 47,000 males to 29,000 females. At the Cape of Good Hope there were 21,000 males to 14,000 females; and, in fact, it was entirely impossible the Hon. Gentleman could expect population to proseed as he sup posed. But let them nosy pass to a colony in which the state of society might be considered settled—Barbedoes; here there were 37,000 males to 40,000 females. And here they came to one of our oldest colonies, in which a regular state of society appeared to exist, and he found that within the period of three years which had elapsed since the last return, the population generally hid increased from 75,000 to 81,000. In Saint Christopher's too, the population had increased from 180,000 to 195,000, and if they went to Saint Lucia, They would find the same pro portion. The Hon. Member spoke of the great decrease in the field negroes, while he declared there was none in the domestic slavery. But on what did the Hon. Member rest his statement—on returns ? No—but simply on his Own assertion. Now the fact was, that any apparent dif ference must arise from the circumstance of any vacancy occurring aincieg the domestic slaves, it was filled up by One of those previously engaged in field labour. In con clusion, he repeated his willingness to support a motion for a Committee, which might, by its labours, disembarrass the question of some of its embarrassments and intricacies. Lord ALTHORP then rose, and after glancing at the extreme weakness of the arguments adduced by the propo sition of the Hon. Member for Weymouth, proceeded in a more audible voice to say—l feel it will be convenient at this early period of the discussion third I should state the line which his Majesty's Government propose to adopt upon the present occasion. I need not say for myself, that I have always been a friend to the abolition of slavery— that I have always voted for the abolition of shivery, and have always felt the greatest anxiety that the period should arrive w hen the emancipation of the slave might be safely undertaken.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Weymouth says he will have nothing to do with ame liorating measures—measures for the improvement of the slave population ; and if they were indeed intended to ef fect nothing but that, I would be inclined to agree with him. But the object in view is to place the slaves in an improved condition—and the ultimate object is to set them in that state of freedom to which we always desired to raise them. It is superfluous to say that the question is of a most delicate and important nature. The Hon. Mem ber foe Weymouth has done right in the mode in which he brought it forward. He had done so with great modera tion, and in the roost temperate manner. This is the mode in which it should he discussed. It is not enough that the question should be brought forward in a temperate mintier, and that the resolution proposed should be tempe rate ; but we should afterwards take care not to do any thing which might cause the danger we are anxious to avoid, and which intemperance in discussion might pro• duce. I confess I have an objection to the Hon. Gentle man's motion. The last resolution expresses the in tention of the House forthwith to adopt measures for the emancipation of the slaves. Certainly, lam not prepared to go this length. From all that I know of the slave po pulation, they are not in a fit, state for emancipation. And, Sir, another objection sif mine to the Hon. Member's mo tion is, that I consider it too vague. It is not sufficiently specific, and is therefore liable to misconstruction. If we were now to say forthwith, it would be impossible to avoid raising expectations which would be injurious to the West India interests. On the other side, I admit that years ve gr Great delay populationda g e loaya should oheasospsuloi:lt,:nuaii spirit e toil: n enaL p oleu% l ,g a al et c e isff: nil . e,alac — tastutse; ( reled l ysi l ,) e ue a imh r a , arin ehpc declaringei p a t r thao , tee dt h thrh e . est r o . l, ) ;:hi mtenc E eeosn: i l Eight ( pence of this resolution, Orders in Council were issuer; in la intistio)tnii'eoanrorsyf t s h e iet n s t out been adopted. It is impossible in my mind, consequently, theaintve.tFthhereienHzdiuesoteeurainchatinnen(soitttaontodtaakssketilulm.seatlo. s gtl u oil r n e fa s kr, t t o hhe a or n wt i e e hv l a i e o nr ;a l t Bn e 2ay t 3 h i e condition of tire slaves with a view to their ultimate emancipation. We are nearly in the same situation now that we were in then, because the recom mendations contained in the resolution have not been tried. Some new regulations, it is true, have been made by the local Legislatures, but the vital recom mendations have not been adopted, except in those colonies which are under the immediate controul of the Crown. Sir, we cannot stand still—we must adopt some measures, not, however, without notice. Often have I heard unless is bbe n e e " c l s i :a t trlalyetayt forvf a o i l r t u h n n e o t atGircioleyv e had ar nd om b p e e t n e e d n t rneCstioollllullt givee fi:rvotosmu, that the an d this House to take some strong measures to enforce their determination. The time, Sir, I think is come to give notice to the colonists by other measures than those of mere recommendation. We must adopt some means to convince them we are .in earnest, and will perseevre in the s t e ps we have recommended, and sat'sfy the country tkat the resolutions we passed were not intended to be a dead letter on our table. On the other hand, I do not think the West Indian interests should be surprised, after so long an interval, if Parliament at length took steps to cam i ts will into affect. There are two modes by which this ma y he done : it may he done by direct legislative inter ference in colonial affairs —w e may pass laws in the Im perial l'arliament to impose regulations on the colonies. But, I admit, this is a step which I would wish very muel, to delay, although, ultimately, if the colonies persevere, it • will be the bounden duty of Parliament to act with this view. The best mode in which I can express myself is, . 1 to state to the House certain resolutions which I shall pro pose for the adoption of the Horse ; for, after what had passed, think it will lee admitted that 1 have said enough to show, I do not agree with the resolution proposed by the Hon. Member opposite. I agree with the object whith the Hon. Member has is view, but not with the resolution by which he proposes to effect it. I shall feel it my duty, therefore, to negative that resolution ; but after having done so, I shall move others to the following purport :—'"fhat this House, in its resolutions of the 15th of May, 1822, distinctly recapitulated the evils under which the slaves in the colonies laboured, and the duty of the colonies to take such decisive measures to relieve the slave population, and to prepare the negroes for participating in the privia loges enjoyed by the other subjects of those eolorties. Tina in those colonies in which there are no Legislative Assern . blies, laws have been promulgated for the amelio• rating and improving the condition of the slave poit , lotion, but in those which have legislative assemblies, though eight years have elapsed since this House passed the resolutions referred to, and though these colo nies have been repeatedly urged to enact similar laws, no such laws have been enacted, nor have any measures been I adopted to give effect to time resolutions of this House, to ; the urgent opinions of the Government, nor to the wishes of the British nation." And then, Sir, I shall propose a mode in which the colonies will find that they have an in terest to adopt the proposition before made by the House. I do not wish to interfere directly with their proceedings by a legislative enactment, hut I think we ought to no.ke it their interest to do what we require, and to show them that we will take active steps to enforce obedience to our wishes. The resolution I shall propose for this purpose is as follows That in the rate of duties levied on the pro dace of the labour of slaves, such a distinction shall he made as will operate in favour of those colonies in which the resolutions of this House have been adopted and the wishes of the Government complied with." This is a proposition which will make if the interest of the colonies to adopt the measures that have been recommended by Government ; it is a proposition that calls on them for a compliance with our wishes, by making an appeal to their interests.— (Hear, hear.)---This appeal, I admit, would not num a fair or justifiable proceeding, if we asked from the colonies anything that was unreasonable ; but we ask nothing of the sort—nothing which it has not already been proved might be safely adopted—nothing which has not already been carried into effect with the utmo4 degree of security in time Crowe colonies, and which, indeed, has worked so well at St. Lucja, that that colony has sent up an address to the Government expressive of their approbation of the mea sures which the Government has adopted, though they state at the sante time, that on the first appearance of these measures they were viewed with some degree of prejudice. —(Hear, hear.)—l know it may be objected to the mea sure which I have just haul the honour of stating to the House, that it will bear more upon those West India pro prietors who are resident here than on those who are set tled in the colonies ; and that the proprieters here are most anxious to adopt the recommendations of this House, hut have no power of compelling the adoption of those recomo nmendations by the colonists. I cannot conceive that the West India proprietors resident in this country are so totally without power or influence over the colonists them selves, as that objection seems to imply. But even if I could suppose this to be true, the course I propose must operate upon the colonies themselves ; and by giving a worse mat ket to those who will not adopt our resolu tions, we must be sure to affect both the proprietors in this country and in the colonies.—(Hear.)—l am ready to say at once that I regret much we should be obliged to press upon the West India proprietors in this country, but we must resolve on some measure of this hind ; and the course I propose will only injuriously affect those who refuse to adopt the measure we have recommended ; for, with respect to others, it would be an advantage, and the colonies that are determined to resist the expressed wishes of this Home, will alone be affected by the pressure of the regulations I propose to adopt. It will be said, perhaps, that these resolutions, like these we have before passed, will have no effect. If so, then we will take other steps; but I wish to try the measure in the first instance, as the milder measure, as one that may be put in advance of others of a stronger kind, to see at least what we can do by the simple intimation of our resolution to carry our wishes into effect ; and if this measure does not produce the desired end, we must proceed further.—(Hear, bear.) I prefer the proposition to that of my Hon. Friend, for to a certain extent it has a different ohject in view, and at time present moment I think we ought to urge nothing more than an amelioration of the condition of the slaves, with a view to timer ultimate emancipation. The propo sitions which have been pressed upon all the colonies have been adopted, not indeed in all, but in those belonging to the Crown, and sonic of the most important of them— such as the compulsory emancipation, and the institution of the office of Protector of Slaves, have been adopted in the foreign colonies. The creation of the office of Pro hector of Slaves is a measure of a most important kind, and the adoption of it is one great step to wards a practical amelioration of the condition of the slaves. Allusion has biam made by the Honourable Member for Dumfries-shire to the appointment of a Com mittee to inquire into the state of the negroes in the Colonies. If I rested my case upon the argument of their condition, and on that alone I should say that a Committee might be a fit and proper mode for attain ing that argument alone. I think it is impossible to say that a state of slavery, whether productive of a diminu tion in the amount of population, or of whatever other evil it may be productive, is not to be regretted, and there is no man in this House who will stand up and say that it is a state which it is not desirable to get rid of.—(Hear, hear.)—Every exertion ought to be made to rid us of its presence.—(Cheers.)—Of the evils of i's existence we are assured, and I do not therefore see the advantage of appointing a Committee of Inquiry. The point on which I put the case is, that these resolutions to which I have referred, were unanimously agreed to eight years ago —I put it on the orders of the Council, and on time adop tion of those orders in the Crown colonies—an adoption which has been followed by nothing but the most benefi cial effects—and finally, on the fact that these resolutions have been pressed upon the other colonies ; but they have not been adopted. These are facts, Sir, which we do not require a Committee of Inquiry to make out. We know what are the laws that have been adopted in the Crown colonies, and what are those that are in force in those which possess legislative assemblies; and I therefore think that a Committee of Inquiry would be useless, and that this House, if it consults its own dignity, and th e w i s h es of the country, will do nothing but insist on the enforce ment of the measures which they have desired should I.e adopted.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BURGE observed, that the importance of the ques tion must be manifest, when it was considered that the colonial produce equalled an amount of sixteen millices and all time property there was at stake when it was pro posed to be affected by legislative enactments in this country. The Hon. Member who opened the discussion wished for immediate emancipation, but the Noble Lord opposite differed from him on that point, and desired to proceed with greater caution, proposing to effect the ulti mate object of emancipation by the means of gradual im provement. A great many charges had been made against the colonists, but he denied that they took pleasure in cru elty, or that they administered the rules of justice by pu nishing crimes only when they were committed by parti cular persons. He insisted that some inquiry was neces sary before that House could pretend to legislate on this subject, fur they knew absolutely nothing of the real con dition of the slaves at the present moment. There had been no real inquiry since 1799, and therefore the House was not in a state to pronounce judgment on time subject. How was it possible to pretend, that in time short space of twenty-two years a change of the most extensive kind had taken place in the condition and character of the negroes, for twenty-two years only had elapsed since their civiliza tion had really begun by the abolition of that infamous slave trade, which had so long disgraced this country, and which the colonists never wished to be continued.—(No, no, no.) He repeated, that it had never been the wish of the colonists that that trade should be continued : it was time trade, not of the colonists, hut of those merchants who had embarked their capital in the traffic of slaves. The colonists of Jamaica were particularly anxious for the abolition of the slave trade ; and if they had succeeded in obtaining their wish some years earlier, the condition of the slaves would have been by this time much more ameliorated. He begged to remind the Hon. Gentleman who had introduced this discussion, that the resolution be had proposed went much farther than those of Mr. C inning, in 1823 ; for that Right Hon. Gen tleman had never looked forty" rd to anything like an itn o (one N i o n ble th L e o c rd ro op positecolmediate emancipation, and he referred the question of compulsory emancipation to th e decision of th e Colonial Legislature. onhad Colonies, b ttiot l dtTlitelim them nl-1 Hoeneon. whatoMemberugbhatto recollect that these ibeen i i and the colo nies could not be properly compared with the others, on account of the peculiar differences of their extent and the the old laws of the colony , while tinder the S p anish de ta,teneonurnetfiof rre t , h i etior, but population. that was T a he s e p ol an on ig y h o c f Trinidad olon3 had ,atib) minion, the slaves were entitled to this species of compul sory manumission. The idea, therefore, of that manu mission was familiar to the minds of the slaves in Trini dad, and the enactment of a law fur that purpose by thei GLvet molt which !sow ruled the colony w as not likely Ito be attended with any difficulty or danger. The differ ence, therefore, between that colony/and Jamaica was con siderable, for in Jamaica a very different system had pre vailed, and yet the House were called on tosay thatthesame laws which were appleable to Trinidol should be made ap wicattle. to lonalea. The latter was right in refusing the com pulsory freedom of slaves, for there slaves exiskrl as a property and were recognised as such by various Statutes. How, therefore, could such a right to compulsory emancipation be admitted while these Statutes existed ? for, if it n ere, it would change the whole course of the law, and the owner, instead of }adding his property at his own will, would hold it at that of o t hers.—(Cheers and cries of ",liear, hear," especially from Mr. O'Connell.) He repeats f what he had said, fur if that property Nellie!' the Constitution had recognised, the title to which had been eta ated and secured by law, could fairly be called a man's own, this property was so. It might be very well at a popular hustings, and for those who consulted popular clamour, to assert that there was not and could not be such a property, but from the opinions of such persons he appealed to the grave de liberate judgment of those who, from day to day, decided questions upon the very principle that slaves were a pro perty---(Hoer.) Before that position was denied, they must tear up the charters of the colonies, they must de stroy the Statutes that had been passed, awl thus put an end to all evidence of the existence of this species of pro perty. He would now advert to the provisions made by the Legislative Assemblies. The Noble Lord spoke of what had been done in the Crown colonies; but he seemed to forget the amelioration that had taken place in the con dition of the slaves in Jamaica, without any invitation front the Government. The distinction of coliur had been an objection to emancipation; but the local Legisla ture had removed that objection ; and by putting all men of all colours on the same footing they had done more to effect the emancipation of the slaves than had been even attempted by the Government.. He begged to say that lie was, and always bad been, a friend to the amelioration of the skives.—( Hear, hear.) He had, when holding an official station in the colonies, never been opposed either to their amelioration or emancipation, and be referred for proof of this to the sentiments he had always expressed when he had the honour of holding office there under the Government. In 1816, without any inter ference on the pat t of the Government, a great deal was done for the amelioration of the condition of the slaves. The Legislative Assembly passed a law to hgalize the power of devising the freedom of slaves. How had they done that? The Legislature had said, that any document which would be sufficient to pass personal property, should he sufficient to give personal freedom to slaves. The con sequence was, that in that mode at least the slaves had no difficulty in obtaining their freedom. They had also passed other provisions to extend to the shaves the means of religious instruction. The number of clergymen had been increased, and the chapels had been augmented. In addition to this, slave evidence had been admitted, and in what manner he would ask ? The principle of the admis sion of slave evidence had been adopted by that House; but, in the instructions sent out by the Government in Mr. Canning'e time, it had been adopted with the limi tation that the evidence of a slave should not be received against his master. Had the Legislature of Jamaica' adopted tl;at limitation? They had not; but on the contrary, they adopted the principle of the admissibility of slave evidence without the exception, though they might have retained it in conformity with the resolu tions of that House. He appealed to that House, whe ther that was not legislating in earnest? It was true, perhaps, that the colonists had not done all that those who were sent out by a certain Society required of them, and that they trusted the Clergymen of the Church of Eng land in preference to those persons ; but were they not right in thinking that they might more safely trust them? for the others were members of a Society which had perse cuted and calumniated them, and which had succeeded in preventing for a long time any fair and temperate disces sian of the question. He wished to -remind those who talked of the Colonies not having complied with the reso lutions of that House, that those resolutions had been fre- Trendy varied since 1823, as the Government had never wished them to be carried incautiously into effect. Then again he would a.k how the measures that had been car ried into effect in the Crown colonies could be cited hero as a proof of what might be done in the other Colonies? They should recollect that the Orders in Council effecting changes in the Government of the Crown colonies had been issued in 1830, so that only nine months had been allowed in which to observe their operation. They had only been carried into effect in Demerara and Berbice, and yet the \Vest India proprietors were called on to carry them into effect in all others. Now, with respect to Deme r ira, the observations he had formerly made upon Trinidad were applicable to the other colony. But, then, it was said that the new system worked well in St. Lucia, which, however, like all the other Crown colonies, was a small colony, in which if any evils arose from the new system they could be rapidly remedied. He contended that the Acts passed by the Legislative Assembly of Jamaica showed their sincere intention to carry into effect every possible amelioration of the condition of the slaves. All the reports of the Church Clergymen were favourable to the exertions of the Legislative Assembly of Jamaica. They spoke much of the improvement of the condition of the slaves in t5-at colony. The Jamaica Legislature had done as much as they could with safety, and yet they were called on for immediate emancipation. What, did those who made thia call expect—a miracle ? Would they not wait for the effect of in struction and improvement ?Would they not wait for the same effect to be produced by the same circumstances upon the negroes of the colonies as on the population of the countries of Europe ? With respect to the question of the increase or decrease of the slave population, there was one point which had not been adverted to, but which demanded at tention, and that was, that no calculation could fairly be instituted with regard to the slave population, until the new race of slaves had descendants ; for none could be formed on the habits and character of these who haul been brought to the colonies under the operation of the slave trade. Whatever information the Hon. Member for Weymouth might have obtained, he (Mr. Burge) could safely assert that it was not borne out by fact. Besides in his calculations regarding the population, he had blended and confounded the whole mass, taking the highest possible rate at one period, and the lowest amount at another. Ile (Mr. Burge) had understood that the negro population exceeded 700,000 ; but it had better answered the pur pose of the lion. Mover to state it at only 600,000. Mr. BUXTON said across the table that he spoke of 600,000 negroes in the fourteen colonies. Mr. BURGE—On the other hand the number of free colonists had been exaggerated. He doubted if any accu rate returns upon the subject had been, or could be pro cured ; and he knew that in Jamaica, for instance, it had been found extremely difficult to arrive at any thing like a correct census of the free inhabitants. Those who re sided in the colonies were the King's subjects, and were entitled to the protection of the King's Govern ment; and yet not only had the resolution been brought forward, but the amendment proposed, without the slightest recognition of the rights of the West India Pro prietors. He begged to know of the Noble Lord whether he was prepared to abandon the policy of the Governments of 1823, 1824, and 1826, when the resolutions were passed in this House, admitting the well-founded claims of the plan ters ? The amendment only adopted so much of the re solutions of 1823 as threw odium on the West Indies, while it omitted all notice of the indisputable rights of property. Did the present Government mean to abandon to popular clamour ail that belonged to the well-being of the slaves, and to the protection of the colonies ? At a time when it was not pretended that Ministers were pre pared with any measures, they were about to legislate per sealtuom, and did not care even to look lefore they leapt. What step did the Noble Lord propose to take ? Not to proceed upon any recognised principles towards colonies deriving their charter from the Crown, but to adopt some fiscal regulation, compulsory upon the West India planters —to adopt a course which would satisfy those most hostile to their interests. The Noble Lord did not mean to legis late internally but externally, upon a new and untried principle—and to impose a tax, not for the purpose of raising a revenue, but of accomplishing a far different ob ject. The colonies had been calumniated partly from de sign—partly from ignorance; but suppose the owners of property in them took measures to defeat the object of the Noble Lord what would be the consequence ? Great in jury, undoubtedly, to the mother country. Those who had incurred debts in this country, whose estates were free from incumbrance, would send their produce at once to the Continent, and those who acted as attorneys for others would not aid in the accomplishment of the pur pose of the Noble Lord for the sake of a paltry commis sion. Only such proprietors as could not avoid it, from the obligations they ham incurred, would consent that their sugar and rum should pay duty in England, and )et they of all men were the last that ought to be called upon to sustain the burden of an additional tax. Hence it was obvious, that the threatened mea sure would not touch the delinquent—those who were must guilty (if, indeed, there were anything like guilt in the case), would escape punishment, and it would fall with increased severity only upon the weak and the in nocent. Tbe Hon. Member for Weymouth and his friends had, no doubt, a strong disposition to ameliorat e th e state of the slaves in the West Indies ; but the very resoluti ons t t i h v e n y t p h r e o y p oacd designedw ou t d o defeatberioi benefit o w w h n oy end, u n a p n r d e p t a h r e e d p o t p o u r l ea.- 4 -eive Alm Bur g th e , no dis at bon !louse on wl iu w 1 it !nig' jeeted. sent Mr. Would Wives, I I ti