The Sun. — London, England, 1830-02-19 00:00:00

gal, then Miguel was hi a better situation with respect to the Pot togueae dependencies than he was with respect t o Portugal itself; for there he was only King de facto, account of his actual possession ; but interfering, as we did, for his interest With respect to Terceira, where, it w a m Clear, he was not King de facto, we acknowledged that he WAS King de jure. The Noble Lord (Goderich) awn observed that he thought the Marquis Palmella most cruelly treated. He showed nothing like duplicity in any part of his conduct, and he knew that he was a most re pectable person, from often baying had occasion to tee and correspond with hint in his diplomatic capacity. The Marquis de Palrnelfa was now reduced from a high and affluent situation to a state of exile and poverty, an d it was cruel to add to all this the charge of duplicity and Iteption.(tlear, hear, from Lord Holland.)—lt was said that the Commanders of the vessels who carried cut the Portuguese troops did net know their destination, and that klity were not aware that they had been prohibited from landing at Terceira. If so, the Ministers were so much 'out osute to blame, fur they ought to have been in teemed of it, more partirulaily when the order of the Ad miralty was issued, commanding our ships of war to burn, sink, destroy (for such the order was in e ke), any vessels that should attempt to land at Terceira. The consequence of this neglect to warn them might have been, that the men and the vessels of this country would be dastroyed by the fire of our own ships of war. If that warning had been given, probably the ships never would have sailed, and the attempt never would have been made. If, in spite of the warning, the parties had persetcred, it might hare been possible to have prevented it, by an act of authority. He might be told that Government could Out have presented it, inasmuch as the act was no viola tion of the municipal law; and perhaps, therefore, an tett of authority might have been required; but he (Lord iGoderich)A , 3uld be glad to hear what right was given by the in 4 atqcipil law to treat the King's subjects in a manner kitot t - arrantell by the law of the land. The Noble Earl (Aberdeen) had talked of the rashness of Count Saldanha and the loss of one life in consequence of it. Whether ' his courage ought to be praised, or whether he ought to be blamed for his mime'', and obstinacy, was a matter of no consequence—one shot had destroyed one life ; but it was to be recollected that instead of a single shot a whole broadside might have been discharged, and not only the 600 Portuguese but the British crew and the ship might have been sent to the bottom. Providentially that issue had not followed, but the principle wes the same, and such etiiyht have been the melancholy result of the order of the Admiralty. He was sure that his Noble Friends would have had their minds wrung with the bitterest affliction if anything of the kind had happened, and then they would have had to exclaim, " Good God ! that we had but thought of warning these people before they went on this i'atal expedition!" He had thought himself compelled to snake three observations, but he would ten thousand times rata tee have had his judgment convinced by what had t*dien from the Noble Earl, which would have prevented his arriving at a conclusion so painful. He wished to God the record of the transaction to which he hail alluded, tesehl lee blotted from our annals.—(Hear.) Lord WHAIINCLIFFE could neither concur with the tell r_ Mover, nor with the Noble Viscount who had just taken his seat. The House ought to remember the state ment of Mr. Canning, when he proposed that troops should be sent to Portugal. In terms stronger than any ather men could use, he_expressly asserted that they were not to act either for or against the Constitution—th ev were only to defend the country against invasion by the troops of Spain. What reason, then, could the Portu guese have for thinking that this country had taken what the Noble Viscount was pleased to call the British-Portu guese Coustitution under its special protection ? The simple queetien was this :—When Don Miguel reached Pertugal, and a party, which seemed the strongest, made its appearance adverse to the Constitution, was Great Britain called upon to interfere, and to force it upon the people? He denied that site was so called upon, and he denied that if any British Minister had attempted to force it on the Portuguese he would have been supported by the British nation. This country was bound to remain strictly neutral ; she had remained so, and if the Portu guese were deceived in their expectations, they were alone to blame. He agreed that there was something painful to the feelings in what had occurred at Terceira; but bow was this Government in fault ? That, and that only was the real point in issue. He denied again that Mr. Canning had ever upheld such a notion as that we were bound to assist any foreign nation in maintaining or destroying its Constitution. His liberal mind was naturally inclined to the extension of liberal principles ; but he always maintained that Great Britain could not interfere to promote that extension. On three grounds he should vote against the motion. The Earl of CARNARVON well understood the doc trine of non-interference ; and in nine instances out of ten he should approve it; but he could not understand, in the condition of the relations between this kingdom and Pertitgal—a powerful and a weakened State, with the capital of the latter occupied by the armies of the former; how, after the danger of invasion, for which those armies were sent oat, was at an end, we could allow our troops, like ambassadors, to remain mere calm spectators of the transactions before their eyes, Sir C. Stuart bad acted, first, the part of a witness, cud afterwards that of a letter carrier; at one moment he wag a Brazilian, and at ano ther a Purtugueee Plenipotentiary. That was a matter of comparatively slight importance; but there was ano ther circumstance too mach withheld from view in the coarse of this night's debate; he alluded to the fact that Great Britain had acknowledged the Queen of Portugal—and in what relation did this country stand, therefore, with regard to the dynasty of Bragansa ? It bad been said that we ought not to interfere in the affairs of Portugal. Nut interfere with the affairs of Portugal! Whet had been our conduct towards that State ? Let Don Miguel answer the question. As a rebel to his father, we conveyed him a prisoner to France, and from France he was eent to Vienna. After en involuntary residence there, after being affianced to the Queen of Portugal, and after the most solemn protesta tions, he had been allowed to return to his native coun try, by the agency and interposition of Great Britain; ansl yet, with these feels before our eyes, we were to re main tame witnesses of the overthrow of that very system we had been endeavouring to support. A great deal had been said of "a civil war raging in Terceira," but nobody had instanced a single battle ; it might have " raged" in the correspondence of the Noble Duke and the Marquis Pahnells, but assuredly it had existed, much less "raged," nowhere else. Of this he war quite certain, that all Eng land, that was out of office, had rejoiced in the glorious victory of Count Villaftor over the expedition sent out by Don Miguel, and it was unalloyed by any necessity, on the part of the eonquerer. to turn his arms against a single inhabitant of Terceira. When the Portuguese, who had been so inhospitably treated in England, were landed in France, they were allowed to proceed without moles tation to Terceira, and Don Miguel himself hail never dreamt of complaining of a violation of the law of nations. Although many parts of the speech of the Noble Foreign Secretary had gives him (Lord Carnarvon) much pain, ens portion of it had excited in his mind un mixed satisfaction. The Noble Earl had distinctly stated that Great Britain would never recognise the Usurper of Portugal, even as King de facto, until he had done full justice and made complete reparation to the unhappy vic tims of his tyranny. Englishmen knew little of the de• gree of suffering to which these victims had been exposed : they were not merely detained for safe custody, but were immured in the most loathsome dungeons, and if restored to freedom, many of them could never be restored to health. Of Don Miguel himself he would not attempt to speak; he should fail in expressing his sense of disgust and hatred,. and after the terms employed by the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs, ail he (Lord Carnarvon) could say would appear like apology, if not panegyric. Although the Usurper had now rained footing, there was a time when Great Britain might have had the whole army of Portugal on her side, while Mignel would have been left with only kis priests, panders, and parasites. He was aware that the motion of his Icoble Friend would require some mo difieation ; but, in the general statement, that further in formation was required to vindicate the character and }te rmer of this country, he heartily concurred. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE trusted the time would never come when Ministers would advise the King to gua rantee a Constitution of any kind for any Foreign State. lie would also rather oppose the motion of his Noble Friend than that his vote in its favour should lead to the slightest implication, that under the circumstances it was fit to re cognise the authority of Don Miguel. The rule of that tyrannical usurper was repugnant to the feelings of the whole kingdom, and it was needless for him to add a single touch to the picture drawn by the Noble Secretary of State. Wbat he understood to be sought by the motion was this:— that without interrupting negociations, for none were pend ing—without committing Great Britain to any future course of conduct, for no such course had been pointed out—the House and the country ought at least to be fur nished with the fullest information before a step was taken that could not be adopted without pain and regret. What, he would ask, had been dose to meet this great evil? During the last two years our foreign relations had undergone an alarming change; at one end of Europe a mighty State, the maintenance of which was once consi dered essential to the balance of power, had been reduced to a state of dependence and vassalage ; while at the other ad those frientlly stlations, the preservation Of which our w:sest Statesmen had held necessary to the welfare 01 this country, hail been torn asunder. Thus circumsnmred, it fitting that Parliament shou'd show indifferen•e to the important events passing before its eyes ? If it consented merely to look on with apathy, notwithstanding what ha l been said on a former night by the Noble Duke regarding the inexhaustible wealth and resources •f this country, and her capability of meeting a new war should it arise, people would be found on the Continent malicious enough to attri bute our forbearance to other causes than indifference. With regard to our existing relations with Portugal, lie would not now fatigue the House by reference to the many great authorities, who concurred with Lord Chatham, that it was essential to our interests to maintain a good understanding : he would appeal only to that event which had been too much lost eight of in the course of dub:ac— he meant the manner in which the Ministry of this coun try had windy interfered, in order, for its own sake, to produce a separation between Portugal and the Brazils. . To effect this object, not only had Sir C. Stuart been sent to Lisbon, hut the Government of Great Britain hail otherwise interposed, and had not allowed the inhabitants of Portugal anti the Brazils to settle the question for them selves. When the separation was settled we became in terested in the terms of that separation, and without med dling with the Constitution, we declared to Portugal that we bad a strong interest in the accomplishment of the ar rangement ; and indirectly and directly too we encouraged those who through all history, from generation to genera tion, had been known as the British party in Partugal, to declare for the Queen and for that species of Go vernment which I)on Pedro had annexed as the conditio❑ of hi, abdication. It was because Great Britain attached value to that Constitution that she became a party to the arrangements at Vienna, by which Don Miguel was re lieved from the just sentence under which he was then suffering, on condition of giving it his support. Ile was not disposed to enter into the general affairs of Portugal ; hut as to the particular transaction at Terceira he must make a few observations, because be agreed with his Noble Friend (Lord Goderich,) that the honour and character of the country were implicated. In the first place he must declare that the conduct of Great Britain was not conformable to any recognised law of nations; and when the Nob'e Secretary of State made a solitary quotation from a solitary author upon the point, he did not seem aware that not a single word of it applied to an attack upon the subjects of a friendly power upon the open seas, on their way to one of the possessions of that friendly power. If Don Miguel had been the very reverse of his real character—if he hail been faitifid instead of treacher ous, and mild instead of cruel—and if this country lied been anxious, on account of his many virtues, to show him all acts of friendship, he should have contended that Great Britain could have been justified in thus pursuing his interests across the Atlantic. Ile had the acknowledgment of the Noble Duke himself on this point. The Noble Duke had well and strongly said in that House, that when application was made to Govern ment for a guarantee for the ships in which the Portuguese troops were going to cross the Atlantic, the answer was, that no such guarantee could be given, fur that his Ma jesty was not King of the Atlantic. Why, then, his 31a jesty not being King of the Atlantic, slid his ships of war attack these loyal Portuguese troops, proceeding:to;the spot to which their Sovereign hail ordered them to proceed ; proceeding to a spot in which uninterrupted loyalty had prevailed ? No civil war nor any appearance of civil war had occurred in Terceira. Of that fact he had the best possible information. He held in his hand a letter from a distinguished General Officer in that Island, who declared that during the whole time that he had been there the Government if the Queen had been universally acknow ledged in Terceira. Yet that was the place which it was pretended by his Majesty's Government the loyal Portu guese troops from this country were proceeding to attack ! The Noble Secretary, therefore, was not justified in attri buting to any disloyal fouling at Terceira the interference of his Majesty's Government, an interference from which the French Government, though much lets bound both by feelings of honour and considerations of interest, had abstained. There could not be a doubt that under the existing circumstances of Europe, the interest of Portugal ought to be dearer to this country than ever. The Noble Secretary of State did not appear to have adverted to the different situation in which we were placed with respect to the Continent by the events of the last two years. In that period we had seen the whole power of Turkey, " our ancient Ally," reduced. If we calculate on creating any counterbalance to our loss of influence on the Conti- neat by that occurrence, it could only be by creating an independent power in Greece. In the meantime the inte rests of Portugal ought to be considered as identified with our own. We had permitted France to obtain a prepon derating influence in Spain. ff it was our interest—aa no one could doubt that it was our interest—to exclude the other Continental Powers from the Peninsula, it was more than ever our interest to maintain our ascendancy in Portugal. That ascendancy must depend on the feelings of gratitude and confidence entertained on that part of the Peninsula by those who had looked, who still looked, and who, he hoped, ever would look to England for friendly co-opera tion and assistance. He trusted, therefore, that if by any " untoward event," by any inevitable misfortune, the con sequences of which might, he hoped, still be averted— that if. from causes which were no longer in our power of controul, although they had once been so, we were to be brought:to a step humiliating3to our Sovereign and in jurious to Portugal, and be compelled to acknowledge a Prince who had shown hisitself faithless to the one, and a curse to the other, we should at least escape from the utter and disgraceful sacrifice of our honour, by stipulating for the security of the lives and property of these unfortu nate individuals, who had been induced by a succession of appearances on our part to embark their fortunes in a cause which had, unhappily, proved unsuccessful; and who, in adhering to that cause, conceived that they were adhering to their British connexion. Ile would vote for his Noble Friend's motian, because it would enable the House to be come possessed of the circumstances which had driven the country into the painful situation in which it was at pre sent placed. The Duke of WELLINGTON spoke to the following effect :—Although, my Lords, the difference of opinion which has been manifested among the Noble Lords oppe.. site might render it unnecessary for me to trespass on year Lordships' attention, yet I am desirous to address a few words to your Lordships, and more particularly with re spect to Terceira. The Noble 'Viscount tegan his speech by stating that we were bound to the Constitution which had been granted to Portugal by Don Pedro. My Noble Friend near me, however, as well as the Noble Viscount on the upper bench, and the Noble Marquis who has just spoken, have clearly proved that this country had nothing whatever to say to that Constitution.' My Lords, if Mr. Canning is to be believed on his repeated assertion, the Noble Viscount has no ground for contending that this country bad any thing to say to that Constitution. Mr. Canning distinctly showed that Sir Charles Stuart, at the time'when that Constitution was granted, was acting as the Minister of Portugal, and as the Minister of Portugal alone ; and that as Minister of Portugal he urged the Mi nisters of the Continental Powers to be tranquil, and to give their support at Lisbon to the Constitution, on the ground of the non-interference of this country in the grant of that Constitution. So that, my Lords, it is impossible that its this transaction this country can he said to have interfered, or to have had any participatiom The Noble Marquis who has just spoken, as well as the Noble Vis count on the upper bench, appears to misunderstand the transaction in which Sir Charles Stuart was engaged at Brazil, and which led to the grant of this Constitution. Sir Charles Stuart was employed in the first instance as the mediator of a treaty of peace between the Emperor of Brazil and his father, King John of Portsgal. He did mediate that treaty. Ile was at the same time Minister Plenipotentiary of one of the belligerents, King John of Portugal. Sir Charles Stuart did mediate the treaty of peace ; the treaty was sigred, and it was not only signed but ratified. lie was not only Minister from the King of England to Portugal, but he went to the Emperor of Brazil as the Minister of the mediating power. If, my Lords, I wanted any proof besides Mr. Canning's word that we had nothing to say to this Constitution, I should find it in an examination of dates. King John died on the 10th of March. This event was known in Brazil on the 23d of April. Between the 26th of April and 6th of May the affair of the Constitution was concluded by Don Pedro himself (for it appears that Sir C. Stuart had no infer ference in it); and it ended by Don Pedro's abdicating the Crown of Portugal, and making it over to Donna Maria. But lie did not abdicate before. The object of Don John was to secure to his son Don Pedro the succession to the Crown of Portugal. It is true that his son was not al luded to in the articles of the treaty; but in the ratification of it Don John calls him his suceessor to the throne of Portugal. In no way was it considered a British object. It so happened, that after the Constitution was framed, Don Pedro found that he could not maintain both Ge vernmeuts ; he, therefore, abdicated the Crown of Por tugal, and granted it to his daughter. These dates and circumstances show that this country could have nothing to do with the grant of the Constitution to Portugal. The letters of Mr. Canning of the 12th and 16th of July certainly contain a qualified recommendation to the Go vernment of Portugal to adopt the Constitution. But those letters also state that if the Portuguese Government did not choose to adopt that Constitution, this country would still do every thing to contribute to the peace and 'welfare . of - Portugal. At the same time, Mr, Cau • Ding took all tie pains wiiieb man coula take—for the number of letters which he wrote on the subject, and copies of which are in the Foreign Office, is ineoneeiiral le—to con vince the various Powers of Europe that the Conetiotion was the grant of the Sovereign, end that we had nothing whatever to do with it. The Noble Viscount goes on, and preteen's that there was something resulting from the transactions at Vienna, which ought to have induced us to take up this subject. My Lords, there was nothing in the transactions at Vienna to lead to such a conchtsien. We hail nothing whatever to say to the appointment of Don Miguel as Regent of Portugal. Don Pedro first di rected Don Miguel to go to Brazil, which Don Miguel re fined to do. Without at all consulting us, Don Pedro ap pointed Don Miguel Regent of Portugal; and our Mi nister, at the Conference of Vienna, requested (without having been instructed to do so) that he might be ;eit in communication with Don Miguel in order to induce him to visit England and carry with him into Portugal the au thority of the English Government. I say, therefore, that the transactions at Vienna, or the previous transac tions at Brazil, bad no manner of connection with the Constitution. Don Miguel certainly made Ui the deposi taries of his determination to carry the Constitution into effect. So far he had undoubtedly committed a gross in dignity. But we bad not made any conditions with him, and Lai therefore no claim upon hint on the subject. The Noble Viscount has talked of the total abandonment of what he called the English party in Portugal. Now, my Lords, if there is any men who has a right to ass e rt that he knows more of Portugal than another, it is myself; and I know of ne English party in that country. I know a few Pertugnese who joined the French army on their in vasion of Portugal; but I know of no English party. - I believe that, with the slight exception I have alluded to, the whole Poi tuguese station is in favour of an alliance with this country ; and, with that exception, that there is not a man in Portugal who is not aware of the ben e fit which Portugal derives from her connection with us. 'My Lords, no man regret. more th Ido that those who have supported the Constitution in Portugal have suffered for do.n so ; but those who state that we were partirs to the grant of that Constitution—who assert that our sending troops to Portugal in 1826 and 1827 was a proof that we intended to support that Consti tution—and that the speeches of Ministers in Pailiameet, or the speeches from the Throne, tended to show that we were determined to support the Constitution and fore it upon the people, have fallen into a mistake which I ahuost rail criminal. A Noble Earl blames his Majesty's Go vernment because our army remained in Portugal after the cessation of the necessity which had caused them to be sent there—after the cessation of any apprehension of foreign contest. It is true they did so remain. But I he-1 litre the authority by which they were permitted to re main acted rightly, and from the best metives. Our Go vernment was intreated by those who were at the head of affairs in Portugal to allow the English troops to remain until the arrival of the Regent. This application was made in August or September, at which time it was be lieved that the Regent would be in Portugal in November; so that to refuse the request to remain until the Regent arrived, would have been unfair and unkind, and hostile to the spirit of conciliation. The vessels which carried and escorted Don Miguel to Portugal from England were destined to bring the English army back; ant in those vessels (with the exception of a small body detained by the Ambassador) the army actual:y embarked in the end af March. The Noble Earl says, that our army ought to have prevented the earliest of those acts of which Don _ _ Miguel was guilty, and of which the Noble Earl com plained. My Lords, the Officer in command of that army was repeatedly directed, not only by those who sent out that army, but by their successors, to keep clear of inter fering with the internal affairs of Portugal, except in as far as the protection of the Royal Family might render interference necessary. The Noble Viscount says cur Am bassador ought to have been recalled from Lisbon. But I beg your Lordships to recollext the great ser : vice which that Ambassador rendered to this country and tolairope, by preserving a complete unanimity in the corps diplomatique at Lisbon, from the commencement to the last moment. It must be also recollected that Don Miguel's first acts were not so flagrant as those which fol lowed. If the Right Hon Gentleman who represented his Majesty at the Court of Lisbon at that time had with drawn on the first word, the example would have been followed by the Ambassadors of France, of Austria, and of the other Powers; and there might have arisen a division among the Sovereigns of Europe of the most injurious character. In my opinion that Right Hon. Gentleman's conduct was most meritorious. He proceeded step by step, carrying with bins en every occasion the approbation and concurrence of his colleagues ; and thus gave to the representatives of the Sovereigns of Europe, headed by himself, that character of union and vigour .whjch they ought always to exhibit. My Lords, I have done the English Ambassador only justice in describing his con duct; but I must also do my Noble Frieud near me, and a Noble Lord on the other side of the House, the justice to say that their directions were in exact conformity to the principles en which he acted. I come now, my Lords, to consider the subject of Terceira. But before Ido so, I must beg to remind your Lordships of the situation in which we stood after our Ambassador had withdrawn from Portugal. We had still a Consul-General at Lis bon. We had still a treaty with Portugal ; and still en joyed all the commercial relations which existed under that treaty ; and of course were bound to observe the strictest neutrality, in the first place in the civil war in Portugal, and in the next place in the war which was likely to occur between Donna Maria and Don Miguel. I say, my Lords, that we were bound to do so from, tlie practice of preceding years. For many years—for above one hundred and twenty years, and particularly o f late years, we hive avoided mixing ourselves with the internal aff a i r s of that kingdom. Since the year 1820, frequent applications have been made to this country to interfere with the internal concerns of Portugal. We received ap plications from the King of Portugal (applications which, under the treaties that existed, were ,most difficult to avoid)—for the purpose of enabling him to get the better of the rebellion in the Brazils, which was then headed by his eldest son and heir. We received applications from the Republicans, who were at one time in possession of Lisbon, to guarantee their Constitution, and to preserve them from foreign attack ; but all of them were refused. I say, therefore, that according to established practices, we have invariably avoided all interference ; and with respect to the disputes between the Emperor of Brazil and the King of Portugal, we particularly stated that between the two branches of the House of Bra gauze we would not interfere. Under such circum stances, we were particularly bound to be neutral iu these contests, and when we found that a body of men bad as sembled in this country—men in garrison at Plymouth, on the footing of troops, what were we to do ? The first that I heard of them—the first application that reached me con cerning them, was from the Marquis of Barbacena, pro posing that they should lee sent to Terceira under the con ♦oy of a detachment of his Majesty's fleet. My Noble Friend has complained, that in my answer I misrepresented this applications of the Marquis. All that I can say is, that throughout this correspondence I never mentioned suck a word as Terceira. On the contrary, I always considered the Azores as a whole, and that fact I take to be a complete answer to most of the observations of my Noble Friend, as well as the Noble Marquis.;. and, my Lords, I think that I should not have performed my duty to this country (remembering that it was to be neutral throughout), if I bad allowed a body of troops to assemble here for the purpose of being carried to the Azores, there to carry on a war against the Sovereign de facto of that place. We had nothing to say to their going thither from France, or the Netherlands, or any other country; but from this country it was impossible that we could permit it. But my Noble Friend says that in a subsequent part of his correspondence, any Noble Friend, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, considers the Azores as a part of Africa, while I consider them as a part of Europe. I can assure your Lorilehips that on this punt I did not for a moment stop to consider whether they belonged to Europe or to Africa. What I did was to consider how I might best prevent any breach of neutrality, and as to where the Azores were situated I did not care. Then Vie Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs is supposed to have given permission for the export of arms to the Azores in Africa; but my quotation from that letter was to state the subter fuge which bad been resorted to in saying that the men were unarmed, when, in fact, there they would find arms. This was the subterfuge which I exposed—a sub terfuge indecent for a Minister Plenipotentiary to have practised on the Noble Secretary for Foreign Affairs.— There has been a great difference of opinion as to what was the law of nations ; but I took a high opinion on the sub ject, and wss assured that it was no breach of the law to prevent the art ival of those troops at Terceira. But it has been said that at least notice ought to have been given to the Captain and seamen of the ships.— I, however, have every reason to believe that the Captain and the seamen were not exactly ignorant of what was going on. They took out bills of lading to go to Brazil, but it happened that with the men that they had on board they were not nearly provisioned suffi ciently to teach that Empire. I admit, however, that this is no excuse for the Government, if we ought to have given notice. But what really happened? As soon as they appeared off the Azores they did receive notice they were told that they roust not go in. And what fol lowed ?—Did they giro up the Attempt? No they ' protest y No !—tut tiley l'oPowea their contge Until at last, by a superior force, they were obliged to turn about. Now, let me ask your Lordships, if a notice at sea is n o t an good as one at port? if not, we are certainly to blame ; but I put it to your Lordship, that they had ample notice before a shot was fired, and that in spite of that notice, they persisted in continuing their course. In the whole course of these transaction', I meat say that the Government has proceeded with the utmost caution in every particular. To prevent a Ereach of neutrality, we heerfered to remove the men front Plymeuth. This dee, not appear from the papers, but at a conversation, at which my noble Friend (the Secretary for Foreign eV . - fairs) was present, I intreated them to send these men away from Plymouth, and a 114 Of towns was made out on their own statement of the number of persone at Ply mouth, they being told that we would give them every assistance in our power. But their object was subse quently avowed—that they were kept together at Ply mouth for the purpose of keeping the Portuguese Go vernment in terror. Surely then it was impossible for us to countenance them. The Noble Viscount him self admits that we could not permit them to continue here; indeed, how cee.ld it, when at the moment this concentration W3S going on, we received intel ligence that they were levying other troops at Lu beck, at Hamburg, at Bremen, and even in Fian dere—though this, on subsequent inquiry, did not turn out to be exactly the case ? -Nor was this all. Let me ask your Lordships, was it decent or proper to send an offi cer to Plymouth, expressly to take command of the depot there ? What is the meaning of a depot ? Does it mean merely a number of individuals, or a body of troops? My Lord, it is evident that they were troops, and I cannot but feel sorry for the attempt that was made to deceive ns. I am aware that it was in the power of Government to adopt a legal mode of dispersing these men; but we could not have adopted that merle, without raising much more noise, much more objection, and much more opposition than the course we did pursue. We therefore followed the track we did, for the purpose of showing that body of men for the purpose of showing the world—and for the purpose of showing Portugal and Brazil that we were determined to preserve our neutrality. But let us sup pose that Don Miguel had sent to us to say that there was a body of men stationed at Plymouth, for the purpose of invading his dominions on the first opportunity that presented itself, what were we to here done? Was I to say " No! No such men are here! No such thing !" Or was Ito say " True, they are here, but I won't dis perse them ; I won't prevent their invading your domi nions?" Why, my Lords, if so, what was to become of our neutrality ? Were we to go to war for the purpose of protecting those very people who had thus insulted his Alsj,sty and the honour of the country? I must say that my Noble Friend does not appear to have considered the difficulty of the ease, or of the peculiar position in which we are plac,d. Since that time, however, these people have found their way to Terceira ; and I sincerely Lope that this country may not feel the inconvenience of that occupation of the Azores. But, my Lords, if the other countries of Europe had done their duty as we did ours, there would have been a better chance of the preservation • of its peace, as fur as may result from the recent transac tions between Portugal and Brazil, than there is at the present moment. Not that I Lave any apprehension of there being a war on this account, though I must say that the situetions of things at Terceira is not what it ought to be, or what it would have been, had the other countries of Europe done their duty. I have already told your Lord *hips that I shall object to any other Papers on this sub ject being produced. The case stands precisely as it (lid when this question was last before the House ; and I sin cerely hope that your Lordships will not insist on the fur ther production of Papers till Government shall advise his Maj-•sty to lay them before Pal liament. Viscount MELBOURNE replied. lie had beard with satisfaction from the Noble Lord that he would not agree to any arrangement which did net provide an amnesty. If the Noble Lord could succeed in obtaining that amnesty, he would effect—not indeed a care for all the evil which had been inflicted, hut at least all the palliation that was left. At that late hour he would not go further into de tail ; but there was one point on which the Noble Duke was mistaken, and which he was desirous of setting right. The Noble Duke had stated that he (Lord Melbourne) had expressed himself apprehensive that the English party would be lost in Portugal. What he bad said was, that Portugal itself would be lost to England, and that both parties in that country would avoid supporting ns. But whatever arguments, or whatever opinions might be urged, it would he remembered that his Motion was only for fur ther information, and he thought that sufficient ground had been made out for that. Their Lordships then divided— For the Motion 9l Against it Majority. against the Uotion —.--31 Adjourned at Ekren o'clock. HOUSE OP COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT.) Mr. BROUGHAIif took the oaths and his seat as Member for the Borough of Knaresborough. Mr. MACAULEY took the oaths andiiis seat as Mein Ler for the Borough of Caine. LONDON BRIDGE. Mr. Alderman WOOD brought op a Bill to amend the London Bridge Approaches Aet, read a rut Cale, and ordered to be read a second. LONDON ASSURANCE COMPANY. Mr. LEGII KECK presented a petition from the Cor poration of the London Assurance Company, praying for leave to bring in a Bill to amend their Act. Mr. II ME moved for au account of the average price at which the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt had made their purchases, during the year 1829, of Three per Cent. Stock.—Ordered. The Hon. Minding then moved for a Return of the number of Writs of Error which had been brought since the passing of the Act of George the Fourth, to prevent frivolous writs of error; likewise the sums of money that bad been paid to officers who had lost their fees in consequence of the passing of that Bill. He hoped the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr Peel) woul , l not oppose those returns. . . _ Mr. Secretary PEEL said he had not the least objet jection to the returns being produced.—Ordered. Mr. DUNDAS presented a petition from the Agricul turists frequenting Reading market, complaining of the distress of the country, and praying for • reduction of ;aixation. Mr. R. PALMER said the petition was nest numer ously and respectably signed. It set forth in forcible lan guage the distress under which the country was suffering, but in his opinion it did not exaggerate that distress, which, in his opinion, was general. The repeal of the Malt Tax would doubtless mush relieve the country, hat would not of itself be sufficient. The pe tition had his most hearty support. Mr. PROTHEROE presented a petition from Stow on-the-Wold, complaining of agricultural distress, and praying for relief. EMANCIPATION OF THE JEWS. Mr. ROBERT GRANT gave notice that he would on Monday next present a petition from certain British-horn subjects of the Jewish persuasion, for the removal of civi ,disabilities affecting them. TERCEIRA. Mr. CHARLES GRANT gave notice of a motion on the 11th March, with respect to Terceira. LAW REFORMS. Mr. PEEL rree to make the motion of which he had given notice respecting the Reform of the Courts of Law. Before he proceeded, he begged that so much of the Royal Speech at the opening of the Session as related to the measures for the improvernenta of the Courts of Law might he now read. The Clerk of the House then rend u follows : " His Majesty commands us to acquaint you that his attention has been of late earnestly directed to various im portant considerations connected with improvements in the general adminiltration of the law. His Majesty has di rected that measures shall be submitted for your delibers tiou of which some are calculated, in the opinion of his Majesty, to facilitate and expedite the course of justice in different parts of the United Kingdom ; and others appear to he necessary preliminaries to a revision of the practice and proceedings of the Superior Courts. "We are commanded to assure you that he Majesty feels confident you will give your beet attention and assist ance to subjects of such deep and lasting concern to the well-being of his people." Mr. PEEL now rose, and' spoke as follows:—Mr. Speaker, I have thought it might be for the convenience and advantage of the House that, at an early period• of the Session, I should avail myself of an opportunity of pre senting to the House the general outline of the measures con nected with the improvements in the whninistration of the law, which have been referred to in his Majesty's gracious Speech from the Throne. I am fully aware that much of this measure will require a separate and deliberate consi deration; but I still deem it of importance that, pre viously to entering into that separate consideration, the House should be in possession of the view of his Majesty's Government with reference to the general scope and object of this measure. I am convinced that his Majesty's c0;,: , .- dence in the disposition of the House to lend every as,ist. Alice and attention to the progress of this measure is not a misplaced confidence; end that, whatever may be the shades of difterenee Upon political questions—however dif ferent may be our views either as to the ex'ent of the dis tress under which the country is now suffering—however different are our views as to the foreign or domestic p hey of the country, I an confident that these considerations, however they may occupy the attention of the ILmse, they will not so exclusively absorb it as to withdraw it altogether from the subject—however less interesting and less ani mating this subject may be, it is certainly of not less im • portanoe to the permanent welfare of the eountry—l ;aide to the measure connected with the improvement and ge .eral administraticn of the laws lam confident that the House will bear with toe, .and extend to me the full mea sure of their indulgence whilst I now state the principles and general outline of the reforms whirls his Msjeety's Government wish to carry into effect. The Mouse, I hope, will snake allowance for any want of professional education, and bear in mind my neceeeary occupation of time in nu merous other matters of great importance to the country. —(Hear, hear.)—lt is not my intention to enter at any length iota the details of the measure ; on the contrary, I shall leave technical points to those Letter fitted fer them by education and professional practice. The House is, no doubt, aware that some short tune since, upon an Address of the Hone, Isis Majesty was pleased .to appoint two Commissions—site of which was intended to enter into the practice and the oroccedinos of the Supreme, Geirts of Law, whilst it was the intention that the other Commiasion should take into consideration the state of the law with relsect to real property. It was thought advisable, upon many grounds, that the subject should he thus divided, and that oath Commission should confine its labours to these separate branches of inquiry.-- I must give credit to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who has just entered this house (Mr. Brougham) for the appointment of these Commissions.—(Hear, hear.) — Their appointment was the result of that very able and comprehensive speech be made on the general sahket of the law; and although ether questions were connected with that speech, I must admit that these Commissions were appointed in order to fulfil the objects which that speech, and the motion founded upon it, were intended to promote. The House is aware that a report has been made by each of these Commissions—a report which, in each case, does the highest pos.itsie credit to the views en tertained by the parties appointed Members of that Com mission, and to their mole of fulfilling the intentions for which they were appointed. The report of the Conunon Law Commission embraces several mattsrs of very high importance to the administration of the law It refers to the general despatch of business, and to the Courts of Com moo Law, and to certain parte of technical proceedings connected with the commenotment of actioes at law.— The second report its a few days will be present e d, and gentlemen will find that it embraces objects of. a still higher concern than have been adverted to in the first report. In the different coustnunicatione I bays had wish the gentlemen composing the Commission for entering into the practice of proceedings of Court* of Common Law, I am informed that this second report of the Commission will embrace, among many other matters, this important subject : --First, the expediency of intrust ing the Courts of Common Law with the process of sum mary and equitable powers, in order to save time and pre vent an unnecessary resort to any of the Courts of Equity. Another subject of great importance adverted to by the Commissioners in the Report, is the verification of written documents before trial. The third point would be a com pulsory reference to arbitrators in all matters of account. The fourth point would be an abridgment and aimplifiva tion of the forms and language of Pleas.--(Hear, hear.) — There were several other matters of scarcely less import ance, hut those that I have now named I know are deemed by Members of this House to be matters of the very highest consequence to the due administration of justice. The Comatissioners who were appointed to consider and Report upon the State of the Law relating to Real Pro perty have also made one Report ; and I trust that at a very early period I shall be enabled to present to this House another Report in continuation of the subject. With reference to bosh of these Commissions, every Member who has watched the progress of our own proceedings, with reference to reforming of the law, will, I think, fully admit that it is of the greatest importance that we have been mtabled to csasider the whole question simul taneously and systematically. I would not wish to at tempt any partial or isolated improvement in one branch o . . of the l‘w ; bet I wished to embrace 'at _once the whole stthjeet relating to the practice of the supe rior Courts of Law and to tke Law of Real Property; for the two subjects arc so intimately interwoven, that until I was possessed of the whole views of the Cormnis sinners, I thought it desirable to postpone any partial re forms, and to leave the subject until the whole could be embraced together. Thera is anotker Commission that has been appointed, not on the Address of this House, hut by the command of his 14.1vjoety, for the purpose of entering into the state of the Ecclesiastical LAW. This Commission was appointed for the special purpose of re vis:ng the whole proceedings of erclereiastical suits, from their very commencement to their close. The turns of this Commission were very nearly corresponding to those of other Ccuntsti•siona. So much for the preliminary proceedings adopted for the purpose of presenting to the Legislature a toll view of the nature of the subjects; and highly important had been the results of these inquiries by disinterested and dispassionate men appointed for the purpose. The law, so far as it relates to the practice cf the Superior Courts, and to the law of real proprrty, and to the Ecclesiastical Courts, is now before the House. The immediate object of the Bill which I elan present is to facilitate the future proceedings of the two Commis sions, and to Icy the groundwork and foundation of ame• liorating the law. The future object of this Bill will be to regulate the appropriation of those fees which are now recei►ed by officers who hold patent offices for life or for a term of years. My experience of legal reforms has satisfied me that tits existence of these patent offices with their vested interests was the greatest of all o6.teeles to reform of any sort. Nothing was more difficult to deal with than this branch of the subject, and whatever was attempted found an obstacle in these patent fees. Here, then it becomes absolutely necessary to look at Vet whole question of these vested offices, and to devise some system by which the establish ment of vextel interests in Courts of Justice should be brought completely before this House, so that this House might deal tangibly with the subject, and at once bring it to a close. Any attempt to introduce partial reform would be met and defeated by these vested rights of patent offices. The usual course is to proceed consistently with justice in cases of these patent offices. I mean by com pensating the persons holding them ; and in the present instance I propose that they should have a claim upon the Consolidated Fund for the whole of the loss which► they may sustain by any reforms to be introduced. But the misfortune is, that the consequence of partial reform is to affect the interests of some of these persons, and if cam• pensatien is made them, when at a future period yon come to deal with some other branch of the laws, you will find that some other officer claims compensation for the lofs of interests be derived from the business arising from the previous arrangements. This has been the consequence in Ireland of adopting partial reforms, and the public in that country have been exposed to great inconveniences and to pecuniary losses. I know of no other mode to re medy this evil but to look all at once to the general ques tion of vested interests of pensioners holding patent offices by such a tenure as to enable Parliament to proceed to regulate the law, without giving to individuals new claims for future compensations. Another object of the Bill I shall introduce, will be to provide, in the first in stance, that after a day to be named, and which will be an early day, no officer shall have any claim to compensation fix any measures Parliament may adept with reference to judicial proceedings in this Court. As to vested interests and rights in patent offices, I have thought it mo►t eligible in every respect, to provide fur thee in this way—to enable Commissioners appointed by the Crown (and, to save expense, I shall appoint the same Consinissionere who are now inquiring into the practice of the Courts of Law) to ascertain what has been the amount of fees received by the sereral officers holding patent offices in Courts of Jus tice, and who have as interest for life, or for a term of years, en an average of a certain number of years. I shall confine this inquiry to the legality of offices. propose to take a period of ten years, believing that that extended period will he, on the whole, the most favourable to the public, without doing any injustice to the isdivi duals. If a shorter period were to be taken, it would be found not se favourable to the public interests. The ex traordinary extent of legal proceedings in the years 1825 and 1827, in consequence of the unfortunate state of the country, had the effect of swelling the legal fees beyond their average amount. Taking this period for ten years, I shall propose that those fees should, for the presort, be received on the public account, and constitute a fund, out of which j►ersous having vessel interests, shall receive their compen sation for their losses, in proportion to the average of the last ten years. When we conic to consider of the alterations to be made in the practice of the Courts, the amount of fees may be reduced on several parts of th• process of a suit. It is °pea to Parliament to say whether it may not be expe dient, in commuting for the fees now paid, to provi ;e by some means—such as a stamp upon instruments, a fund sufficient to compensate those officers who have vested in termts during their lives. Let their fees be received ripen the public account, and go to constitute a fund, out I ' which their compensations must be .paid. Thee facts would be amply auflivieat to remunerate such Wilco.. In 1928 the average of fees er:ectld that of the previoir4 five years, from 1h23 Ira 18'..1 and 1528 there was 3 great incr e a. ie iu the number of CUtlck:A is the Sitp,riue Court*. I lat e ly brought into this How a Bid fir the recovery of Sm a ll D e bt s , an d f or reducing eliargo on .11 actions for tecorerint Debt. under Ten Pound.. I wtrs at once met by the necessity of considering tie claims 0 1. oevera! Patent Cfrioers, and from titling warning by On example of Ireland. I was afraid to take the fees holt those i , flis•ers least I should increase the el sine of other officers, wii9m it would be nvot:ssary to remove in the SIIMIR manner on s.ime otls, r occasions. Although it is not pos— sible to adopt this measure withent the Anal Ilepoit of ti e Commissioners, it is one which has excited at forint(' periods souse discussion in this Hoxec, and a very con siderable sensktion throngliont the country. I must nay allude to th, proposal of alkili*hing Lots.' Juristlietims ss they exist in Walea, and to assiorlice the law of shit country to the itywein of this. lam quite satisfied, that those gentletn , n who are met desirous of I , llpp:using the dignity end independence of Wales wi 1 he induced to e.on - Bider the subject maturdy and dispassionately, and ti de termine whether the time has not arrived in which we ought to assimilate the laws and assimilate the permanent interests of all the community. The English system of lair and jurisdiction can now be safely introduced into that c.At:itry. The House is aware that at present there are four separate and independent jurisdirfons in Wales, taro having a separate and independent set of offisers. There are eight Judges who sulminiater justice. The officers of these are tenabk, with seats in Padiament, and atoll Judge is enaVed to practice as a I3arrist4r, and tae prac tice is for e4eit to he attachrri _to one Circuit, iiibtvml of going the Circuits generally. It certainly so hap lens that at this montsnt there is but one Welsh Judge who .has seat is this Hover, and it is impossilde to name anylexly more independent in Parliament, or better calculeted to promote the dignity of his judicial station; but the °lite is to provide against the possibility of a union of the Per liamentary and Judicial function.. It would be a greet improvement to prevent persons go sg permanently the same small Circuits, for othereise it is impossible to avoid local and personal ettichinert.. The.public oeg t is be eoesulted ; and it is not only neceseery that justice should be a lininietered impartially, but that public opinion elaeu:d he impressed with the fact. But this Teem • tion of \Archie jurid erien is presented to us under novel circumstances ; for a point was raised about a year ago whether the proceedings of a ',Trish euit were not morn economical than in Luolan 1. Coneiherable doubts exist as to this ; bet if it be so, why let the Welsh forma be adopted in this country. Ds not let as confine this ad vantage to Wales; let es give it to Inglend. If there i 4 anything by which justice men lee expedited, or obteined it a lower expense, there cannot be a better pre:edent that' net to deprive Wales of tie a lvaetege, but to diffuse that advantage over the United Kingdom. My object is to Abel sh every technical form which is not absolutely ne twenty for the purposes of the impartial administration of justioe. Another point most important is the present state of business in the Courts of Common Law, To this I must call the especial consideration of the Heave It is the decided opinion of the Commissioners that it is necessary to add to the number of Judges of the inferior Gallas, with the view of preventing the ieeresee of that arrear which has taken place in the administration of justice. Toe Coininimsionere propose not to add to th 3 number of Judges who sit t igether, for they are decidedly of opinion Viet the present numb r of four Judges het great advantage over any other number. They think that in a Court where a deoiiiion must be by a majority' there should at least be a majority of three to one. lo proposing, therefore, to add one Judge to each of the ea' perior Courts, it is clear we would not be adding to the number of Judges existing in fact. The House of Coe mons will then have to determine whether it will tie m ore advisable to retain C.ese eight Welsh Judges, or to mhl two or three Jude,* of Conemen Law, who might ho re tained to perform these duties which were heretofore the business of the eight. The House will also have to eerie eider whether, by agree* to retain these Welsh dodger they will pronounce their judicial system to be more per fect than oar own; and it will also have to take into ae etount that by the a''olotion of thew eight Welsh J u dges we can ultimately promese to the country a saving of 9,8001. I must, for myself, say that it is my opinion we should revise the system ; and I do not see that the Prin. ripality should be opposed to it, because wales would nisi • nudely benefit by the oaring that would be effected by the abolition of four separate judicial establishments. re sides: Sir, the saving effected by the reduction of the salaries of these Welsh Judges (if the House s hould concur with um in the opinion they ought to be re duced) will provide for those additional Judges of the superior Courts at Westminater-bal!--(Hear, h ee e,)--In the :tame spirit of economy in which cation. other artessures that we have thought it our duty to bring before the House have been conceived, do I now advert without scruple t 3 an act which emanated from ourselves, and which hied the szliries t f the English Ju Iges at 5,5001. a year. To is was an increase upon the old salary, and objections were at the time mull to this increae-. We certainly did not then yield to these objections; but the act is open to reconsi sideration, and I have non no hesitation to declare I am of opinion that 5,000/. a year will be sufficient for the main• tmanee and dignity of all future Jude s. I think, too, Sir, that proportioning the retiring allowance to the salary will not be iejitrions ; it is therefore my intention to move kr leave to bring in a Bill to revise that Act, and I shall theu e n d i' t7p d on to the so I fl t o ien i t a io Y n e of a k Hear, hear.) propose, that in all future appointments to judicial offi ec i tshir, as eealar l y a s m hal e l ng h a e g li administration of justice, I shalt t a k e th e opportun i ty o f mentioning what has been done with respect to t h e tmen 4- reform ' in the ment and consolidation of the Criminal Law. Sir, thi4 sub ject lies occupied the House since the year 1825. An Art was then passed to consolidate and improve the laws le• 'sting to criminal justioe. That Act tended to remove the difficTulties attending the conviction of an accessary bef;; the fact—it regulated the expence of prosecutions noon felonious tniademeanones—it remedied the evil of technical defences, and it corrected some abuses in the estreating of recognizAncett Four Acts for the improvement of criminal justice were then passed. The first abolishes Benefit of Clergy, making a pardon under the sign manual equivalent to Benefit of Clergy. The second consolidated the laws re specting burglary, embezzlement, and theft—the offenceo against property. The third had the aline effect with respect to the laws relating to malicious injuries against property and the fourth related to the• consolidation of laws eon • <with': remedies against the bundre4. In 1828 an A t t had been brought in to consolidate the laws respectin‘ ofEnces against the person; and I have the satisfaction of knowing that great advantages hare accrued to criminal justice front the Acts I have introdueed.—(Hear, hear.)-- In all, 272 Acts have been repealed--all the provisions of which that were worth retaining are included in eight Acts of Parliament ; and I du not find that any inoonve. nience has resulted from either the repeal or the subetitn tion.—(Hear, hear.)—Having stated what has been done, I will now proceed to state what I farther propose to de. In the course of the present Session, Sir, I propose, with the assistance of. my Right Hun. Friend the Master of the Mint, to introduce a Bill for the enesolidatioa of the laws relating to all offences against the coin yf the realm ; and it is oar purpose to suggest, that such offences should Ito no longer punishable as high treason. We likewise mean is propose the consolidation - of all laws relating to forgery. —(thar.)—There is only one more subject on which I shall trouble the House ; it is oue of a something different triture from that now before it, and it relates to another part of the United Kingdom. to the course of last Ses sion it was proposed to increase the salaries of the Scotch Judges to the same amount with those of the Judges tof Zugland; but it was the general wish of the House dos% the consideration of this matter should be postponed until other circumstances, deemed of more immediate import. sive, should be first taken into consideration, and then it was said the question touching those salariee • might be settled. Sir, oar time has been, in a great degree, devote' to the consideration of this subject in the interval whirl' has occurred since that debate, and we have busily em ployed ourselves in projecting a general revision. of the Scotch LAW. And, Sir, I trust, that with the support of my llonourable Friend, the Lord Advocate, I shall be able to propose some measure to improve the adatin'eteation of justice in that part of the kingslent. Sir,.it is our opi nion that the time has come when the Jury Court msy hoe abolished, and its businees transferred to the Court of Ses sion; and this transfer we shall make under such eh-cries. stances as will, I have no doubt, ensure it the universal approbation. I thick, Sir , that the period has arrive when the Jury system must he engrafted upon th e instite tions of the country. It has been,alreatly tried under the auspices of the Chief Commissioner of the Jury Court for fifteen years, and great advantages had been found to re sult to S-otland from the proceedings of this Court. New the fifes nt Cornmissiener would, on the destruction of this Court, he entitled to a large portion of his salsry ; we therefore propose to retain his tervicts at the Court cf Session. We also propose to abolish all separate ju•islic tion of the Court of Admiralty of Scotland, as I re . ' as to recommend a reduction in the camber of judges in the Cunsistorial Court from four to one, as We !Neat' to transfer all questions of legitimacy, marriage, and &voice, to the Coutt of Session. In ti.e Court of Ex- c h e quer, too, we, will. reduce two from the number of the Barons appointed by the Act of Union. The business. of this Court cm be transacted by th e as welt as by the fotir 15arous now iu utliccy . 11, considerable saving will be I, tkerl Sessi it•ct t rlirc u pnio! w~ro 1 then a poll to th tra% , t Ponte