The Sun. — London, England, 1830-07-01 00:00:00

°til~ F , , ,I„y. Ho -*, f,t the purpose of passing a temporary 11i4i, qv, woohi r. , it ask if Ministers had or had not the reyfeleeee of she Sovereign, or of the people. 4r 4.4 i':,! , 44.4,0,mt, but be would ask, had they their ,i;en eentidenee ?—(Cheers.) The fact was, they bad no reliance. open theinselves—they desired to run away froM Hh it over: '41114, (tool which if they did not run away, 'those lid* would soon steal away from them. They tereht. a tlissolution, in the hope that in a new , Perna. 7 rrn , n t ti 4 64, , might ft A more compliance. The Noble Duke, run e neig‘it hope that in a new Parliament he might find a Chaficellor i)1 tlw V, kehequer capable of bringing forward ,t Budget precticable and intelligible—he might wish all that ; } r S t wee he theeefore justified in advising the Crown ta prouttunce a emarre upon the House of Commons—to &elm them, nom in June, at that not very advanced pe : diet of the year, Meapabie of exerci s ing the function. whetted to th e m by the Wilt:tuition. Upon grounds such me these, he premed upon the Ilouse the adoption of the amen4l44o sty dwelling upon the extreme shortness of the time et/Ailed for eousideration. Let the question, how ereta he decided ;le it might, the country would not hesi tate to deeide between those who supported the motion of Ihe Nattle Duke and those who voted for the amendment er tee Noble Earl. Ile declared that in opposing the neeloti 13, - was niit influenced by hostility to the Noble he acne infleenced by nothing but a persuasion that ~, :0 adoption of that motion could not fail to create dis ettisfaction them:omm the country at this importanterisiv. The Earl ef 'WICKLOW had the most perfect confidence in the Noide Duke at the head of the Administration, and Li .: 044:,10it that, both in the opinion of the House and the , ewitti.ry. he W I , h the great measure of last year, eata eledo d th'e strong* claim to that confidence. The time w. 1,,, too short for the memory of those great services to be bet 1'1e,.1 therefore leave the Noble Duke his most cordial end imeealified support; and the more readily he gave that auppoet, when he saw the amendment supported by one of the most unnatural coalitions that had ever been witnessed in this country, . The Earl of HAREWOOD acknowledged the great importance of the question under discussion, and he was perfect'y satisfied that, in the present state of things, Par liament could not do justice to such a question. Though not one of those who was grateful to the Noble Duke for the measure of last year, yet he would, as an independent man, support him on this occasion. He had been too long in Parliament not to know what was the meaning of the adjournment for twenty-four hourse The facts stood thus t—Within twenty-four hours after his accession to the Throne his Majesty. appointed *thee Noble Duke and others to be his Ministry ; and was the Muse to offer re sistance to the first proposition that came from the King after his accession ? Whatever might be his wish to assert, and to preserve his independence, ke weuld not set himself againit the first suggestion they had received front the new Sovereign; that, however, did by no means pledge him to a general support of the measures of Admini-tration.— Though, technically, bound to regard the appointment of the present Government as an appointment de amen, yet he would, on this occasion give than the support required. The Earl of RAJ)NOR observed that the Noble Earl opposite supported the present motion merely on the *cunt of its having been the first which proceeded from , yesent Majesty, and, so far as he could perceive, for 'ter reason. Now he conceived it tube uoconstitu impute any political motive to the Sovereign.--- % he did was by the advice of responsible Mini. ae Noble Earl did not favour the House with a ament except one, and that was the most falls. it could easily be imagined. A Noble Earl ') who spoke on the other vide said that his mind e up on the subject. He bad probably had an 0pf ,,,, „ city of considering and deliberating on the subject for some time; art then he ought .tn ;:llow other Noble Lords time to deliberate on the measure. recommended, and make up their minds upon it. The Ministers, the Noble Eatl said, had deliberately considered the measure before they laid it before the -House; but if they had ex amined the matter with so much deliberation, why not allow others time for deliberation, and then perhaps others might cornea to the same conclusion? ' He (Lord Radnor) admitted, however, that it. was not likely that he should mine to the seine conclusion. He considered that . if Peillement should agree to the proposition of the Noble Duke, they would be taking a great part of the responsibility on themselves which ought to rest with Ministers. It would be considered that their Lordship had concurred with the Ministers in recom mending an immediate dissolutitm. lie hoped that this was a responsibility which tlutir Lordships would not he di- posed, under existing circumstances, to take upon them heaves. it was manifestly of the highest importance that Pediment should continue to sit for.some time longer, fur besides the measure of great and paramount importance upon which the Noble Earl who moved the amendment had principally insisted, there were many other considera tions which' rendered an immediate dissolution highly in expedient at this moment. A Noble Baron (Ellenborough) on the opposite side talked about giving repose to the country by this plan of a dissolution. That argument was not very consistent with some that had been used by ' those who puppet ted the proposition of the Noble Duke; I but it was well known that measures had been recom mended in the Speech from the Throne, which.lad not es yet been passed. Several measures of legal reform had I been mentioned, and were now in progress, but none of I them had as yet been passed.. A prospect had been held ' out that taxes would be reduced to the amount of three millions, but that reduction hall not as yet taken place. ' The Beer fill was - in progress, .hut that too would be ,444 1 4 1 .40 d by a dissolution. This people, who were oppressed by the :burden of taxation,, hod been looking to the 1 vliPf which lad been 'promised, but they would be die appointed. The beer trade would be thrown into confu sion, and the progress of many commercial measures now hefore Parliament would he arrested. There was another matter of the highest importance to be considered, anti that was the state of the country, and the distress under it hich the people had for sonic time laboured. A promise had been made at the opening of the Session, that Nome meesures would be brought forward to alleviate the distrese, but none had been adopted ; and yet their Lordships were call, d upon to recommend an immediate dissolution, and that, too, without being allowed the short spice of twenty four hours for deliberation. The question came upon them completely by sttr e rise, and they were celled upon to de cide, without time to counitler ; and under these circum stances b, thought it might well be anticipated that the mejloityof their Lordships would vote against the propo ,i:Mn of the Noble Duke and for that of his Noble Friend , near him. Earl MANSFIELD---Their Lordships had been wit., eeseee of some practical inconveniences arising in Bil 9, on the death of George 111., when theTarliment was dis solved so early after the time of its being assembled ; and why should they expose themselves to such inconveniences on the present occasion, without any reason for it? It was . true, that Parliament was.very considerably in arrear with the public business. But 010 was an argument against the dissolution, and not for it; and in point of fact no reason was assigned for the dissolution. Did the Ministers mean to say that it would be extremely inconvenient and hazard ous to bring the question of the Civil List before the Com mons when that house was ,an its death.hed ? Did they Ine4il to say that in such a situation the Commons would he parsimonious to the SOversigo ? the did not think that either the Parliament or.the people deserved that reproach, for both had always been ready and antione to supply whatever was necessary to support the due 41414n:41.44r e nd independence of the Crown. , It was a libel tot them to suppose that it was otherwise. But there might he some parts of the Civil List not at all connected with the per sonal dignity and splendour of the Sovereign, about which a naaaa of Commons, on the eve of a dissolution, might be jealous. The Members of the Ileuse of COMUUSOI need lic under gto apprehension when .they granted liberally what was necessary fur,the .sole it of the real dignity of the Crown, fur the peopkwould concur with them in the opinion that this was in strict conformity with the due execution ottheir trust; hot, as toothier items of the Civil List, :hey might have tome apprehensions that unpleasant tpteitiope might be asked, in case they did not closely in vestigete the list, and setVe it with a proper regard to economy. It was not very likely that the Ministers wouhl fiod another Parliament more favourable to there than the present, end why.then. resort to an inttnediate diseolutien, when there was no reason for it, but many strong Iva suns against it ? There were several Money Bible, as well as. others of great importance now depe.nding. But then the Ministers proposed to 'dissolve, and, to enable them to do so, they intended to raise , the, money by a vote of credit. But credit required conti 7 deure, 41141 he had no confidence in the present Adminis tration. As to the cam! of a Regency, some temporary nroviaion et least ought to be made for it befoie the 'diseolution. The proposition made , by the Nobs Earl near him was merely for a delay of one 'day, in order to t;014- iitler . the q uestion . There Might be cireuntstenvea of veri g reat difficulty indeed consequent on the want of S.' ite geocy , and he had often regretted that ate Minister had been hold enotigh tea force that subject onthe consideration of . the Crown. lie 114 bimeelf seen the incoovenience (of the want of a legislative trientanits. to Meet Smelt a crisis ; and if the dreaded event should occur, the country would he lent. without protectioM lit hoped, therefore, that the voice of Parliament end of the country would Induce . Ministers to reconsider their project, or at least to state .. , i on e good reeson in its ( .d our. Lotif WfIALINCLIFFIS said , ' that he had some confi dance in the present Administration, but this was a case which required extraordinary confidence ; and he hoped that the proposition for a delay would be adopted, that they might have time to consider in what words they could most respectfully to the Sovereign intimate their (Onion that immediate dissolution ought not to take platy. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM regretted that so many appeals had been made on both bides of the House to the Catholic question. lie could not tree how any advantage could arise from these allusions to that measure, and he thought it would be much better to refrain from them. He admitted, that in any view in which it could be,con sidered, the situation in which they were placed presented coneiderable difficulties, but the question was on which side the difficulties preponderated? It ought to be remem bered that the Crown could of its own authority dissolve the Parliament whenever it thought proper. There were difficulties attendant on the actual state of the public busi ness ; and they arose partly from the manner in which the other House of Parliament chose to conduct its busi ness, and partly from other causes. But the Crown hav ing declared that it intended to exercise its undoubted prerogative to dissolve the Parliament, the question was, how they could enable it to do so with the least possible inconvenience? It had been observed by a Noble Earl, that the convenience of the Members of the House of Com mons, who might wish to take journeys and make ar rangements with regard to the approaching elections, ought not for a moment to be put in competition with the vast consequence of the continuation of Parliament for some time longer. But whether their Lordships chose to consult their convenience or not, and whatever might be the importance of making provisions with respect to a Regency, it would be impossible for them to prevent the feelings of an early dissolution and the approach of a ge neral election prevailing strongly all over the country; and ought their Lot dships to proceed with the considera tion of the question of the Regency during such a state of general effervescence? His opinion was, that the better ceurse was to agree to the proposition of the Noble Duke; and on these practical grounds he would vote for it. The Duke of WELLINGTON requested the indulgence of their Lordships While be said a few words, and they would be but few, on the subject now before them. Some thing had been said about the loss of influence which belled sustained in consequence of the measure of last year, which had been so often Mentioned, lie did not mean at present to say a word on that measure except this, that however sorry he might be to lose the support of the Noble Earl (Mansfield) on the opposite bench, and of other Noble Lords who concurred in that Noble Earl's views, if the thing were still to be done he would take exactly the same steps as he had taken last yetee--(Heare hear) The question now before their Lordships was to be considered with reference to the actual situation of Parliament. This was net a state of things in which there was a balance of inconveniences, nor had it been so represented by the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack. It was a balance be tween positive and greatinconvenience on one band, and a remote risk on the other ; and the best and the easiest mode of getting out of that risk was by means of the dis• solution. 'Their Lordships were very much mistaken if they thought that the matter of the Regency could b e settled merely by a short Bill. It was a subject of very great difficulty, and one which it was impossible to settle properly in the present Parliament. The Ministers bad not adverted in the way of objection to the con duct of the House of Commons. But the pressure of business was so great, and so much still remained to be clone, that it was hardly possible, in the course of the present Session, to get through that business in addition to the important measure which .F" bur, so m u c h L i .. slated upon> in the , euerse of this discussion. A Noble Earl en the other side had said that the Ministers, by the proposition which they had this night submitted to their Lordships, wished to throw on Parliament the responsi bility of the dissolution. That, however, was not the case, nor was it ever intended. The Ministers had merely brought down a Message from his Majesty, who stated, that he saw the inconvenience of the present Parliament's sitting much longer, and he requested their Lordships to adopt such measures for carrying on the public service as would enable him to dissolve the Parliament as soon as possible. The Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack —(looking at Lord Eldon, who took off his bat),—(a laugh.)—He meant to say, his Noble and Learned Friend on the Cross Bench—whom he bad been so long accus tomed to see with so much satisfaction on the Woolsack, had observed, that the Alinieters by this measure of ditto . lutiots proposed to dispense with the advantage of the Act of William and Anne, as if they had disapproved of that statute. 'flea, however, was very fir from being 'the case. On the contrary, it was that Act which enabled them to recommend these measures to Parliament ; for had it not been for the Statute in question, the measures would, of course, leave been lost along with the Perlin meat, He regretted that he could not concur with the Noble Earl in the delay which he lead proposed. He did not mean in the least to impute to the Noble Earl any other motive in making the proposition than thatwhich be. himself avowed; but he could see no use in the delay, and therefore thought it best that they should come to a de cision on the question this night. Rail GREY—Me would not take up the time of the House in making any thing like a reply to all the topics that had been touched upon in the course of the discus sion ; but in some points he had been misunderstood as to what he had stated when he before addressed the House ; and as to these he hoped the House would indulge him with a few words. In the first place, a Noble Marquis on the Cross Dentin who spoke early in the debate, lied said that he (Earl drey) lead admitted that there was no other objection to the dissolution except that the great measure of the Regency would thereby be postponed, and that he was willing that the consideration of the Civil List, and the other measures before Parliament, should be waived. But the Noble Marquis very much tnietook what he said, if he thought that he had made any such admix riots ; although be had said that if the measure of the Re gency was one of such great and paramount importance, that Parliament could not, without a flagrant dereliction of duty, express its concurrence in the propriety of an early dissolution, leaving that question unsettled. Us had been told, forsooth, that his own object would be best at tained by an early dissolution, butt that was not the light. in which he viewed the matter. This was not a question of prerogative as to whether Iris Majesty 'should dissolve the Parliament or not, but the question was whether their. Lordships would furnish him with the means of executing his prerogative to dissolve? He WWI astonished to hear it insinuated that he was ready to .indulge in , gloomy', contemplation of the event of the King's demise. - Ile certainly had no disposition to indulge in any such gloomy contemplations. He was too well aware of the tem perate habits and strong and healthy constitution of hie Ilejesty to feel any extraordinary apprehensions on that head. He merely contemplated the possibility of the early occurrence of such an event from any of those va rious accidents to which human nature was always liable, and that was amply sufficient ground for the proposition for which be contended; which was, that the earliest op portunity ought to be taken to prevent the dangerous con 'sequences of the situation in which the country might b placed, if the event should happen without any previous arrangement having been made. And in comparison wi Is the great importance of having that matter settled, what wars the inconvenience of protracting tire sitting of Perlis. recent for a few weeks. But although this was the con sideration of the most paramount importance, there could be no doubt but that great inconvenience would arise from the total destruction which the dissolution would bring on the measures now before Parliament. Some Bills of sup- ply were in progreee—some measures for the alleviation of the public harthens, and these and all other measures now depending would be left incomplete by the dissolution. Now as to the object of his motion. It had been said that his motion was a trap to catch votes, and was supported by an unnatural coalition. He could not conceive how it had ever entered the imagination of any one to impute to him such a motive. He would state what was the real 'Object of his motion for the delay of one day. It was merely this—that the Mini. stere might have that time to consider whether they ought to advise his Majesty not to persist ' in the dissolutions ; or, if the Ministers did not choose to give that advice, that their Lordship* might have time to consider how they could most respectfully communicate to his Majesty their own sense of the in.expediency of an im mediate dissolution. That was his object, and with that he had resolved, after consultation with a few friends with whom he had usually acted, to eubmit to their Lordships this !imposition. At to what had been 'mid about 1111 um. natural coalition, he hod only to say he concurred in what had been said by the Noble Earl near hime-that he knew of no coalition. It was true that he had differed on many points from that Noble Earl and his friends, but he had never ceased to consider them as honourable men; and although there was no troalition, yet; if he *Weld happen to propose any measure in which they 'could concur, be would feel himself highly honoured by their approltetion i 'and support. A Noble Baron opposite had said, that he 1 (Fred Grey) had now openly shown his opposition to the present Ministers, and he appeared in contradiction to . his thriller conduct and a want of gratitude. He remembered I well that he had given the Noble Duke's great Measure of test year a moat cordial support, but he did so en public ! - grounds, and riot from coy personal motives ; and As to ~ the debt of gratitude, if be could suppose that his Wu core hurl been of any use to the Noble Duke in assisting . him to carry that measure into effect, he believed the debt of gratitude might be considered as pretty nearly egital.— (Hear, hear.)—As to the matter of general confidence in the present Administration, it was true that he had a strong dispositien in favour of the Noble Duke, and much good will towards him ; but be had stated when he sup- ported the great measure of last year, that he still re• mained exactly in the same situation as before, and was not prepared to give his full confidence to an Administra tion constituted as the present was. Judging from what he had heard of many of their measures, he certainly did consider that they were such as conduced neither to the honour nor the interests of the country. They had pro. posed measures in certain shapes, then altered and with drawn them—proposed them again in other shapes, and then altered them again, until they appeared to have got into a state of inextricable confusion. lie was far from imputing the blame of this to the Noble Duke personally, whom he held in the hi t hest estimation ; but he spoke from a c!ote observation of the proceedings of some of those with whom the Noble Duke was connected, and in his opinion of their competency be believed he would be joined by three-fourths of the who'e nation. He did not think it possible, after what he said in the commence ment of the evening, that any Noble Lord would impute motives to him ; but that imputation had been dis claimed, and he accepted the disclaimer. Ile might ex pect to be accused of rashness, of feeling too warmly, of expressing himself too warmly , --but he never expected to hear himself accused of secrecy—of a desire to conceal his opinions; and least of all did he expect to be so accused by a Noble Lord wham he once had the honour to earl his Friend. lie would net say any more. He repelleJ the necessity of opposing the Address, and begged the Nettle Duke not to suppose that he meant any thing personal to him. He had contemplated the very important con sequences alluded to by the Noble Earl (Ilarrowhy); but he had stated what seemed to him most likely to occur, and most likely to have claims on their Lordship's consi deration. He was glad, however, that the Noble Earl had mentioned the other point, and had suggested a re medy which seemed of ready application, arid would be deserving of future consideration. The Noble Earl con cluded by moving an amendment for the adjournment till to-morrow. Lord ELLENBOROUGH explained. He di-claimed any wish to impute improper motives to the Noble Earl ; and he was extremely sorry to perceive that the Noble Earl had taken up such an idea. Ile had, on a former occasion, shown hint the highest mark of respect it was possible for one public man to show to another, and si nee that time he had seen nothing in the Noble Earl's conduct to abate his respect ; on the contrary, his whole proceed ings had increased it. Ho wished, also, to state, that it was not In the contemplation of his Majesty's Ministers to dissolve the Parliament so speedily,as to deprive the people of that relief which had been promised them by the mea sures introduced into the other !louse. The Marquis of BUTE explained. Their Lordships then divided on Earl Girl's amend ment, when there appeared, Contents Non•Contenta lOO Majority in favour of Ministers —44 On our return into the House we found Earl Gnav moving another amendment of the tenor he had stated in his speech. Hirt CAWDOR took the opportunity of asking the Noble Duke whether his Majesty's Ministers intended to abandon all those measures—including one in which the people of Wales were much interested—which had been recommended from the Throne, and introduced into Par liament ? The Duke of WELLINGTON replied that it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to proceed with those laws which could be passed in a reasonable time. The Beer Bill would be carried through, as well as such of the Bills relating to the administration of justice as courtl be carried through. The Bill for regulating the Scotch Courts, which had been brought up to that House, would, he believed, pass into a law. There were others which it was probable might be passed, and ethers which, considering the difference of opinion in the other Home, it was not likely could be passed. He believed the parti cular Bill in which the Noble Lord was interested was likely to pass, but the other Bill for the improvement of the law would, he believed, be abandoned till next year. Lord HOLLAND inquired of the Duke of Wellington if he meant to pass an Appropriation Bill? The Duke of WELLINGTON replied that an Appro priation Bill would be passed. The amendment, as we understood, was then put and negatived without a division and the Address carried. Their Lordships then adjourned at Ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT.) Boydell's Divorce Bill went through • Committee. Mr. WM. O'BRIf!N rose, but the noise was so great we were unable to catch what the Hon. Member said. We understood him to complain of a letter that appeared in one of the Irish newspapers from Mr. O'Connell. The SPEAKER asked the Hon. Member if he intended to bring forward a breach of privilege? Mr. O'BRIEN returned some answer, which was in audible in the gallery. The SPEAKER said the Hon. Member must be aware that the proper mode would be to move that the Editor or Proprietor of the Newspaper be brOught to the Bo of the House, as strictly speaking, it would he a breach of privi lege to publish the reports of that House. The regular way would therefore be to bring forward the Editor or Proprietor. An Hox. Messina said that Mr. O'Brien's object was t o s h ow t o th e mom the nature of the publication. The SPEAKER—That would be quite irregular, as there is no motion befime the House. A number of Members called ont " Give notice—give notice," and the matter dropped. Several returns and petitions wire then presented, with , notices for next Session. Sir R. PEEL moved that the Order of the Day be read fur takirer Into consideration the Message of his Ali jetty, after the reading of which the Right Hon. Gentle man expressed himself as follows :--Sir, I now time for the purpose of calling the attention of the House to that part of his Majesty's gracious Message which expresses a hope that this House will make provi, lion for the conduct of the public service in the in. terval that may elapse between the termination of the present Session, and the assembling of a new Parlia• went. Sir, I cannot proceed to the performance of that duty without expressing...4o far as an individual may pre., stone to express it—my deep sense of the considerate and respectful forbearance with which the House was pleased yesterday to limit its proceedings to the consideration of an Address of condolence and congratulation, and unanionotody refused to mix with the consideration of those topics any thing calculated to provoke and irritate, or even to lead to the expression of a difference of opinion. Sir, the demise of his Majesty hat necessarily devolved upon the Government the duty of giving their advice to his Majesty with respect to the course it is fitting to pursue for the despatch of business. The House is, no doubt aware. that by the ancient law of this - country the demise of the Crown necessarily dissolved Parliament. The reason assigned for this by Illarkstinie is, that the King was considered the head of Rudiment, principium et finis, and that the demise of the Crown at once put an end to Parliament. Sir, it was 'not till King William's reign that an alteration in the law was made in this respect. By an Act passed in the 7th and Bth years of - King William, it was provided that, on the demise ofthe Crown, the existence of Parliament o.ould not necessarily terminate, but that it eliould continue, un less sooner prorogued or dissolved, for six months. The preamble of that Act points out the cause of that 'enactment. It is stated that danger might arise on the demise of the Crown, either from the invasion' of foreign enemies, or from the conspiracy of evil-disposed persons abroad or at home. No doubt the original cause of the alteration in the preceding law had reference to the • very peculiar circumstances at• tending the demise and the danger of a disputed succession. It has been generally said that the Act of King William was temporary ; but I apprehend that that was hot the case, but that it was permanent, although it is recognised by a subsequent Act of Queen Anne. But, ski what- ver were the circumstances which originally led to the passing of that Act no doubt, I think, can be enter tained that it was a proper precaution, to provide that the demise of the Crown should not necessarily put an end to the Parliament, but that there should•he a power to continue it in ease circumstances might require the deliberation of Parliament. The question now is, Whether or not in the prettent state of business, and whether with reference to the businese which must he instituted on the demise of the Crown, and the - accession of a new Sovereign, it be more advisable to dissolve Parliament, or to proceed to the de.. 'watch of business. Now, sie, I have no doubt that under mature consideration by his Majesty's Government, with whom it rests to advise, they have considered it their duty to advise a communication to the purport of the Mas sage of the Sovereign to this House. The guess tier' is, whether or not the !White will accede to the 'proposal made by the Crown, taking care t h at t h ey should make temporary provision for the conduct of public business; that I apprehend to be the subject for the cohsides ration of the House. Now, Sir, I apprehend it cannot be questioned, that although 'circumstances may arise which may snake it necessary for Parliament to continue Its deliberations, yet, upon the whole, there is much inconvenience attending its kitting, when it is known that at an early period, by law, a dissolution I I must take place. The l a w provides th a t w ithi n s i x mont h s I Parliament must terminate. It is impossible but that the preparation for the election of Members to serve in a new Parliament must immediately take place. Sir, I hold that the expense incurred by those pre parations is productive of no good.--(Hear, bear.) — That it is an expense not calculated to facilitate the free expression of the opinion of electors—but that that ex pense incurred in consequence of a six months' preparation for corruptingan eventual rather election th an is aan beneficial ecpn which inflata ce. hue_ a (Cheers and laughter. )—I hold also, Sir, that it sloes submit the Members of the existing Parliament, who are willing to attend here in the performance of their public duty, to an unfair disadvantage;--that the parties opposed to them, in the first place, are free of any public affair on account of no public business pressing on them, by which they are enabled to devote the whole of their attention on the spot to the promotion of their own inte rests, and to act in conformity with the views of those around them, having the great advantage of being personally on the Tat, and being able to devote their attention en tirely ta busiri6s. The consequence, I apprehend, of this has been in former periods when Parliament has conti nued sitting, after the demise of the Crown, that there has been a complaint of the want of sufficient attendance for pub. lie business, and I find even on the Journals of this House, of the proceedings when Parliament has continued its sittings after the demise for the transaction of the business submitted to it, that there are instances in which letters have been addressed to the Sheriffs and Members complaining of the want of attendance, and requiring their return to London. On these grounds, Sir, I think it cannot, unless there he special circimestaneess requiring the immediate intervention of Parliament, I think it cannot be denied upon the whole, that it is more conducive—most calculated to ensure imps.- tiatity between contending parties, fur the voices of their constituents--that at us early a period as may he convenient for the public service, the prerogative of the Crown should be exercised in forming a new Parliament. Sir, I sin quite aware that since the Act of Queen Anne passed there have been instances in which a different course has been pursued. I am quite aware that in the reigns which immediately succeeded Queen Anne it was usual to send a message to Parliament, proposing arrangements for the sittings, and that in conformity with that message arrange ments were made. At the same time it must be borne in mind that the constitution of the civil list was very different at that time to its constitution now ; that at that period the Sovereign was in possession of the here ditary revenues, and that a certain sum was voted by Par liament, in addition, in order to snake up the deficiency between those revenues and the charges upon them ; and, in point of fact, the time devoted at the periods I am speaking of, up to the reign of George 111., to the Civil List, would not be considered sufficient now for the due consideration of matters of so much importance. I find, for instance, in the reign of George I. the Bill for the, settlement of the future Civil List, passed with very great expedition. Queen Anne died on the let August, 1714. The Act for the arrangement of the Civil List was in troduced into the Gammons on the 12th of August, 1714. It passed through all the stages from day to day without exciting much attention. It was sent to the Lords on the 17th August; it was returned on the 19th August, with the assent of the Lords, and Parliament itself was prorogued on the 25th of August, 1714. Those periods, therefor,. althengh they were periods in which the Civil List was settled by Parliament on the demise of the Crown, were not periods to which we can refer at present, I think, in respect to similar pro. eroding+. Sir, I am quite certain it must be the al most unanimous feeling that on the settlement of the Civil List, under the circumstances under which the pre sent claims come, that it is most desirable that the Govern ment, on whose responsibility that Civil List is to be settled, should have a full opportunity of maturely consider. ing the arrangements, as far as can be given to a sub ject so important, and that the Commons after wards should have an equally full opportunity of deliberating en the details of that list...(Hear.)— Sir there will be t o b e cons id e r e d t h e Ci v il Li st o f three different parts of the Empire—the Civil Establishment of Scotland, Ireland, and of this part of the United Kingdom. Upon the settlement of the Civil List fifteen years ago, the general recommendation of the King having been given at a time when his Majesty eras; unrestricted Regent, was nearly followed in the ar rangement of the Civil List when his Majesty succeeded to the throne. At the same time it is impossible not to admit that there are certain matters connected with the Civil List which call for additional consideration. For instance, there are at the present moment several of the public officers who desire their salaries partly from the Civil List, and partly from the Consolidated Fund. There are the Judges, who • derive their salmi's partly from the Civil List, and partly from the Conso lidated Fund. There is the Treasury---a part of the effi cere of the Treasury derive their salaries partly from the Civil List, partly from the Consolidated Fund. Sir, I do not know that I could illustrate this better than by the circumstance of one individual officer—the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; he derives his emolument from five diffe rent sources; part of it from the Civil List, part from the Consolidated Funds, part from the Civil List of Ireland, part from Come other source in England and the fifth from fees on transactions on business m the office. Now it is necessary that the salary of those officers should be maturely considered, and that ample time should be given for the deliberation of all important matters. Now, Sir, adverting to the period that must elapse before his Ms. jetty's Government should be prepared with any well adjusted plan for the arrangement of the Civil List, adverting to the period Parliament must have to give to any Bill a sefficient consi deration of any proposal, I do not think that the practice of continuing Parliament after the demise of the Crown is to be considered binding, and that there is much m are public advantage in reserving the settlement the Civil List for future consideration, rather than it should he pressed on now, which would keep Perlin ;sent sitting for a long time, leaving all the preparations for a new election, and the expenses attending a xis months' preparation, nut of the question. We proposs, Sir, to follow the later precedent of 1820. F, r I have no doubt that the present Parliament will make a just provision fur his Majesty, whatever their just desire may be to curtail the public expenditure. I sin satisfied that no desire of, meeting their constituents will prevent their making what will be thought a juat allowance for their Monarch.--(Cheers.) And that Hon. Members wilt consider they are discharging their duty to' their constituents by making that provision which, at the same time that i. is consistent with economy as much as possible, will be sufficient fur hie Majesty. Solely on the ground of the important subjects connected with the Civil List re quiring more deliberation than is at present consistent with public duty, I think it better that that consideratioit he postpones'. Sir, I said we Were desirous of following the later precedent of the year 1820. In that year the Parliament, which had been elected dur ing the Regency of his Majesty George the Fourth, ha.l only been in existence for one year and six months at the demise of the Crown, which took place not at an ad vanced period of the Session, as is the case at present, hut on almost the very hest day of the Parliementary vacation, and at that period which iai the ordinary corn trientennent of the Session of Parliament ; but in addition to that fact, there is another and a material difference be tween the circumstance, in which his late and his present. Majesty stood on the demise of the Crown ; for, in the former case, the Parliament was elected during 'the Re. gency of his late Majesty, who had then for several years exercised the fnnetions of Sovereign—whilst in the latter case his present Majesty has never adminiatered any of the functions of Sovereign up to the moment of the demise of the Crown. Sir, this Session of Parliament his Already lasted five months, during which period we hive been occupied, I will not ray in very successtful, but certainly in very severe anti arduous labours, and the tithe has arrived When an interval between our past and our future labours is desirable. not only for the convenience of Hon. Mem bers but for the due consideration of publicbusinessa. Still, Sir, there can be' no doubt that we are by law competent to sit, competent to transact public business; and if the public interests required a further continuance of the' See. sion, no private considerations ought to be allowed to stand in the way of public business, and we ought to pro.. ceed. But, Sir, although I contend that no such para mount necessity exists, 1 do not pretsnd to say that the proposition is one entirely free from difficulties, and one upon which the House could, without any difficulty, arrive at an unanimous conclusion. An Hon. Gentleman opposite has referred to one or two omissions in the Message from the Throne without Mating in terms what those omissions are, bet I suppose the Hon. Gentleman most have' meant the Civil List, . and some provision fora Regency in the trent of a detrise tsf the Crown.--(Hear, hear.)l do net mean, Sir, to avoid those questions, and particularly the letter, or to pretend not to know that the Matter is considered to he one involving considerations of great delictiey, I also think it a question of great delicacy, ,4nd I therefore think it better to treat with, the utmost fratiknesis a sub ject open to so many end Serious considerations, and_upon which redone opinions are entertained, But I must say, thatth aimportance, after qu es t t h io e mo n,a s n t an da x d i m ou it s ti a n n g d it del to ilrete co be ra oneo n f s t le e ra g t re io a n te o s f t the his Majesty's Ministers are of opinion that they a p r o e stpo ac n ti e n m g en f t or of the I p u u e b s l t i pre sumptive to the thron e i s a m i nor o f very ten d er years, and good o ( 7!. Regen c y iii e ree' s a f o r ni t a I h t e n d e h the heirpi n r e g a e n --(Hear.)-4 know, Sir ic ,oni it is desirable dirt Parliament should not separate without making some provision for the event (which God avert) of an unexpected demise of the Crown ; and it is de sirable that some provision should be made for the ad ministering of the Royal prerogative from the demise of the Crown until such time as the successor to the Throne should arrive at a proper age to assume the functions of Sovereignty.—(Hear, hear.)—Sir, I can contemplate no question involving public interest which requires more cautious and dispassionate consideration, and therefore trust the House will indulge me whilst I contrast the pre sent state of this country with the circumstances under which the question of the Regency had on two for occasions come under the consideration of Par liament. We arc not, Sir, placed in exactly the same situation as the country was placed in upon either of the former occasions, in 1751 and 1765. At each of those periods the Heir to the Throne was Heir Apparent, and although bosh the periods were not far distant, yet Par liament had thought tit to make a material difference in the conditions upon which the Regency was to be conducted. In the year 1751 the Princess Dowager of Wales being the mother of the Heir Apparent, was appointed Guardian, hut in the year 1765 Parliament empowered his Majesty George 111. to nominate, by his will, a Regent, but with this restriction, that such nomination was to be confined to certain persons named in the Bill. I refer to those circumstances, not for the purpose of expressing mynpinion upon either of these arrangements, but I do it only for the purpose of showing that there is a ma terial differenee between the two courses pursued by Par liament upon those occasions, and that therefore the sub ject is one which ought to be treated with the most grave and serious consideration ; Sir, it must be admitted, that to make a permanent provision for the administering the functions of sovereignty in every case, and under every cir cumstance in which the Heir Presumptive should be a minor on the demise of the Crown, is a question de serving of the moat deliberate investigatinn.--(Hear.)— But it may be said why not make a temporary provision until Parliament shall meet again? Sir, at very early periods of our history instances have occurred in which infant Sovereigns succeeded to the Throne, without any previous legislative provision having been made for such an event. Those instances were Henry 111., Richard IL, and Henry VI., in neither of which instances did the in fant Sovereign attain eleven years of age, and in one of which the Sovereign was not more than one year old ; but after the accession of the Sovereign a Regent was ap pointed to administer the functions of GovernMent until the infant an ived of age. Since the Revolution a diffe. rent course had been pursued, for, upon the two occa sions, in the years 1751 and 1765, the Parliament seeing the consequences of the mistakes on the former occasions made provision fur future similar events. But the House w ou ld perce i ve t h at on neither of these OCCW. ohms' was the provision made immediately upon the accession of the reigning Sovereign. For in the latter case no provision was made until three years after the birth of George the Fourth, and in that case the risk run by Parliament, and the necessity which existed for appointing a Regency were, to say the least, as pressing as at present. --'--(Cheers.)—That the necessity in the present insturiee may not arise is the undivided wish of the country.—(:nod cheering.)—But when we consider that it may mioe, our duty requires that we should meet it, if we shoulil thick it necessary. I have stated to the House that in the 'l%!en of George the risk was run for three years after the birth of an Heir Apparent, and that after the death of Frederick, Prince of Wales, three year* more were suffered to elapse without any provision having been made by Parliament. Thus, Sir, I say, that, in point of precedent, on such occasions, I am justified in proposing the delay. In case, however, of such an unfortunate occurrence taking place, I apprehend that the infant would have full authority to give her assent to any Act of Parliament passed for the appointment of a guardian, and I apprehend that though the act of a minor, it would have equal validity as the act of a Sovereign at any time. Still, Sir, it may be urged even by those who admit this proposition, that some temporary provision should be made, empowering some persons in such an unfortunate event to give consent on the part of the infant to the appointment of a Regency. Sir, after giving every circumstance of the supposed east every consideration, I am induced most earnestly to impress the House with the impolicy of adopting such a course. I will not refer in de tail to the circumstances which would attend marls a measure, I will only observe, that any temporary pro vision of the sort could only tend to fetter the future deli berations of Parliament.—(Cheers.)—I nerd scarcely dwell upon the presumption that the appointment of such a power, and still more the exercise for a time, however limited, of such functions, if called into operation, would most materially fetter the future deliberations of Parliament, when they came to consider of a permanent provision during the minority of the infant.—(Cheers.)-- For these reasons, which I think 1 have stated with as much delicacy as possible, I trust that I have said enoogis to show that his Majesty was justly influenced itt deciding against making any temporary provision of that descrip tion....-(Hear, hear.)—l s tn not aware, Sir, that it is necessary for me to trouble the House with any further observations in justification of the ad dress which I have to propose to his Majesty.-- (Hear, hear.)—lt will therefore only remain for me to state what is' the course which, under the present circumstances, hie Majesty's Government propose to pur sue with respect to public business —(Hear, hear )—That address assumes the assent of Parliament to make without delay such temporary provision as may be necessary be tween the else of this Session, anal the opening of the next Parliament for the public service. Assuming that acquies cence on the part of the House, I will state what it is that the Government mean to propose with respect to the public business, so far as they are concerned in it. If it be de termined that there shall be a dissolution of Parliament, and if the House consents to perform its part by asssenting to the temporary provision I mean to propose, those two points conceded, 1 believe it will then be yielded, that the sooner the business is despatched, consistently with the public interests, the better for the country.--(Hear, hear.)—taere are, however, Sir, some measurer before Parliament of great importance ; and, in stating what it isl that Government proposes to proceed with, I feel that itl would involve us in difficulty if we were bound as to it. disposal. (Cries of " Hear, hear, hear.") I trust, Sir,' the House will bear in mind the peculiar situ ation in which, by an unforeseen occurrence, we find ourselves unexpectedly placed.—(llear.)—ln this', situation we feel it to be our duty to bring the present! Session to a conclusion as speedily as may be consistent with the public service, and to postpone the consideration of all those questions which may be likely to lead to serious discussion. The best way I can now explain the course we mean to pursue, is by referring to those measures in detail with which it is our intention to proceed.—( Hear. )-1 After the expectation which has been held out of relief to the poorer classes of society, we feel that it is our duty to go on with the Bills for the remission of the duty OA beer, and also with that for giving it a more extended sale.—. (Much cheering. ).,-We feel that those Bala should res. though the Bill for the remission otthe sugar duty Is trot yet introduced, and although the Bill for the more general sale of beer has not yet passed through the House of Com mune, yet as the latter has reached the thitd reading, anal M the former is not likely to provoke any serious diaeus• sion, we think they should be carried into execution. There is also another Bill which it is absolutely necessary to carry sat'tlhhl aeanntodcaatwwuieceehrialiirinowanedeite,iorilnrityli sinterfereswhich . whenever any propositions for a reform in our Courts 6 ° T ta h r hi ej a: u i t ti d *t e i Bil l, : r mcP(aS:inmtr patent en , p t t r u i o l on e v i 11 ;i 1 r e l c s e re h s g th i e n y te w nm er t : always found a great obstruction in the way of reform, it being always difficult, in cases of partial reform, to provide such compensation for those officers as would be just to the public. At present the fees in the Court of Excite. quer avers three 'times as great as in the Court of King's Bench, and it was therefore not at all surprising, that the business of the latter Court far exceeded that W} t o y reform fees,nf fi f i ia c c i t e l h t i etv e s ospt w uiea f ni :e dr r r iol e ii t Eat Parliament v o f r tc or i "— r., l t e i ' t as r il l l necessaryt se con sid erat io n t d r l e e r ao a fi f le Judicature,vi hear e ts p o a h a r i n i h lt; o y a t lf this i nu . s e d—tiß Parl i a m e n t unfetteredi l : t ar o t : m; in o , l:;bdi o i ir t r :s h art i:l s s s-s e f d h considerations. With respect to the spirit-duties, tie last proposition made by his Right Hon. Minot near him was, that a deity of 6d. per gallon should be 'reposed on British and colonial spirits. It is our du papra press that measure upon the House. The passing of &it Bill, however, roams pele us to take - into consideration the Writ India rests; and the House will bear in mind that the pre sent ,duties will expire on Monday next. The House will n , t, of course, permit those ditties to tease, but will make a provision for levying a duty of some sor‘ and the questiOn is, what that duty is to bs. I do think that as the present dial % wilt expire on Mon- - day next, and as the propositiot, of my Right Honourah'e IIIMINIIIIIIIINNIOMNIIIIPt... .. - Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer wa s — so severely contested, and as they were agreed to by so ery small a me;ority—(Cheers)--under these circumsta ces I feel 1 that it is impossible to call upon Parliame t to adopt these resolutions between this and Monday next. (Che er s.) Haring, however, attempt d to confer a bene'.fit on the West India interests, which they slid not dhootte to accept, or rather, I should say, which they did !ant con ceive to be so great a benefit as it appeared to be to his Majesty's Ministers, still, in proposing to rets.in the additimial duty on rum, I think the depression tinder which those interests are suffeting at the present mo ment, undoubtedly gives them a fair claim that we should realize their expectations of benefit.—(Cheers, )........ Some reduction mu.t take place, and it is desirable that that reduction should be made in the simplest possible farm. Still I fez! bound to say that I have consulted many practical men upon the difficteties whict l it was supposed would attend the resolutions of my Right Hon. Friend, arid their opinion was, those difficulties were by no means so great &swag supplied in the former debate. After the best consideration Government had been able to give to this subject, they had determined to recommend an absolute teed detennin de duty, instead of a fluctuating one. What they proposed, therefore, was to imposes duty upon West India sugar of 34., and upon East India sugar of ss. That proportion appeared .nearcst calculated to meet the various circumstances by which these interests were affected. It would, of course, be also necessary to alter the drawbacks in similar proportions. If the mea sure should pass bits a law, it would be said that, during the present Session, the following re duction in . taxation had been effected. The first o a ff n d pr i nc i palwas that o a rticle ftioiadthe would summit to 3,000,000/. ; upon the leather tax to heer, n u po po n n wtlhiincthtthhee loss tluty en taken 300,0001., and upon the sugar duties to the amount of 450,0001., making a total of 3,750,0001. The addition of 6d. upon colonial spirits would, it was calculated, bring in 600.0001.: thus making the net total of reductions effected l'uring the present Session ei amount to 3,150,000!.--(hear.)—He wished it to be understood that Government did not yield to the argu ments en the other side of the House about the consolida tion of stamps. it was not, however, their int•ntion to press that measure at the present period; it would be necessary to postpone it to the next Parliament.— The principal thing for their consideration then was what List. What Ministers int en d e d t o propose was a vote o f they should do with the Approptiation Bill and the Civil credit. They did not intend to eater into any estimates or any particulars respecting the future provision for the Civil List. Nor did they ask for the vote for a whole year, but only for the limited period till the assembling of the new Parliament. He was not now prepared to say the amount that would be required—that would be mattes for future consideration. With regard to the Bill now liefJre the House for the better administrition of justify., he proposal, in consequence of the very large minority that had sanctioned the measure in that Huse, to carry into effect the Welch Judica ture Bill. Respecting the new Chancery Judge Bill the Maiter's Office Bill, and the Registrars' Office Bill, lie thought,aeso many amendments had been proposed, it was proper to take those amendments into serious considera tion, and therefor.: he should postpone them until next Parliament. He h:d now attempted to explain in the shortest and plainest way he was able, why he had considered it his duty humbly to advise the Crown to make a temporary provision for the carrying on the Government, and he hail now only to move that the following humble address be presented to his Majesty. The Right Hun. Baronet concluded by moving the Address (for which see Lords' Report). Lord ALTHORP said that there were some propoai irons in the speech of the Right Hon. Secretary of such great importance, and involving great constitutional ques tions, of such great importance, not only of the highest welfare of the Monarchy, but of every class o the community, that be found great difficulty in being called upon to decide upon so short a notice. The Right lion. Baronet had certainly stated with great candour the views of Ministers; and it appeared that the personal convenienreof Members of that House were sup posed to be consulted by an early dissolution taking' place; but he contended, that all considerations of per sonal convenience should give way to public benefit. Tnt Right Honourable Baronet had dwelt upon the inconvie nience of arranging the Civil List at the present period previous to it dissolution of Parliament. Now it certainl y did appear to him (Lord Altborp) extremely desirable ilia the people should see how their representatives voted u such a question before they were sent back to them their suffrages. The question, however, was not • point in the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet w i ci tnost pressed upon hi s m i n d, or t h e oars with regard to thi necessity of taking whi c h i nto i mme di ate cons i deration, he was most sensible. There was another question, alludes to by the Right Hon. Baronet, of still greater—in deed be would say, of paramount'-.importance. Wit} respect to that question, he (Lord Althorp) shout. only discharge his duty as a Member of that House ii stating fully what he felt upon the subject. He was sun that no man in that House could feel deeper regret than h did that any misfortune should call for such a measure a that of providing for a future Regency ; and he share with all the common feeling that the necessity of an: such Regency might be deferred to a far distant period But he would ask whether any private man would no be considered as extremely itnpredent, if he delayed nit longer than was necessary in making provision fur hi family in case of his death ? They could only be looke , upon in the light of trustees for the public, and as sue they were bound at once to make for the public a pre vision of that nature.—(liear.).--Some such prevision analagous to the eettlement in a private family to which he ha: alluded, was now absolutely necessary ; and he did think that his Majesty's Ministers and Parliament would n, properly discharge the ditties imposed upon them, if the delayed any longer the arrangements which were necessar ; fur making such a provision. --(Hear, bear.)—Navin shouldn inclined ounoenot a to d e ch g ei s o i a l ongonca l le d tix with mup on t he stated thus much, h e conce i ve d t h at t h e H ouse would b .. 1. a h pn i r m ohposten in iiytion t n h ns i d n w k at i h n ion g ehee t h ha atdo t bep t b r e e o y n. : submitted to them by the . Right lion. Baronet, and that some time should be afforded for their due consideration. With respect to the other measures to which the Right Hon. Baronet had alluded,—those measures which be had stated that Government bad thought proper to select for the purpose of pressing forward in the present Session, and those measures which according to his statement, in the opinion of his Majesty's Ministers might be for the pre. sent abandoned—with regard to all those measures, they r; severally involved questions of great importance; and ;• time should he afforded for the due consideration i them ; so that the House might have it - Pieper opiio tunity to decide whether his Majesty's Ministers ha adopted a right course; and whether, under all ti circumstances of the case, it was necessary that tl plan recommended by them should be adopted. It w usual in c*ses of dais kind, when questions of greet important were brained forward, that notice of their introductio should be given for some time previously, in order thi time might be *Stilled fur their due consideration ; ht here they were called upon to vote the Address propose by the Right Hon. Baronet, and to decide at once opts all the important matters to which it had reference. Ile, (Lord Althorp) really hardly knew what course should be I meet advisable for the Hews to adopt in reference to all those various matters; he had not made up his mind or that point, and he thought that under such eircumetance the debate ought to be adjourned for twenty-four hours —he did not ask for more.--(Hear, hoar.) - Ffe - only alike for an adjournment of the debate for twenty-four hours, if, order that they might approach the question with a due and deliberate consideration of the different important topics which it embraced. He should not detain the House further at the present moment. It was up ei these grounds that he was for adjourning the further coo sideratian of the propositiou made by the Right Hot Gentleman, and it was out of no feeling of disrespect t his Majesty that he proposed the postponement until to morrow of an answer to that portion of his Majesty' , message which had been delivered to the Houses yestenlse and to which the present Address referred. To one pre of that gracious Message the House had already giveo' , answer, and it did not strike him that any inconveniet could result from the poetpouitig an &mover to the reu4 ing portion of it until tternorruw. Under such vie. stances, he (Lord Altb or p) s h ou ld move t h at the ' sideration of the proposition of the Right lion. Gentle Than ' , should be adjou rne d unt il to -m or r ow, ..: Mr. IIROUGIUM then ruse, and spoke to the tot- lowing effett :—Sir, I rise to second the motion of my Noble Friend ; but is doing so I take the liberty of stating most explicitly that, anxieus as I am that t h ere shoultl ::. :, bes sa adjournment of this debate, yet I should have tare,: fully abstained from pressing it, could I believe that thir: : motion of adjournment could be so far perverted by ant - person in any quarter as to wear by possibility th e e mu .;,. Mince of disrespect towards the illustrious Prince whore." we yesterday congratulated on his accession to the throne of three three realms..—(Cheers.)—l go farther —I do not htoe - :'- sitaM to say I would lament as much that any recommete elation of mine should bare the semblance of a disposition' wantingaition— I fur u a t i t i er e l l y ,e d obier iecta r im ai 2 li t. , w upon my part, captiously and needlessly to embarrass la Majority's Government. I, for one, have not this diepi:: I hich ris r a na n y o be w, urged irtsteadunc2'.