The Sun. — London, England, 1830-03-17 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS-(LAST NIGHT). The I.OII,I3 CUaxcELLoa took his seat on the . Wool sack at five minutes past Five o'clock. The Exchequer Bills' Bill, the Transfer of Aids Bill, and the Guernsey and Jersey Poor Bill, were severally read a third time. MESSAGE FROM THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Sir ALEXANDER GRANT and others brought up the Mutiny Bill, the Marine Mutiny Bill, the East Retford Bribery Bill, and the Personal Estates Bill, together with several other private Bills. The Duke of GORDON presented a petition from Aber- deen, praying for free trade to India. Earl BATHURST presented a petition from Cirencester against the punishment of death for forgery. The Earl of LIMERICK presented a petition from the unemployed weavers of Limerick, complaining of distress, and praying the House to adopt some mode for their relief. Lord RADNOR presented a petition from Dursley, in Gloucestershire, calling upon Parliament for relief. The poor petitioners stated there were 1,500 people raakiving not more than 15d. per week for their labour. The same NOBLE LORD then presented to the House a petition from the Citizens of London, complaining of the prevalence of general distress. The petition had lain for signature at the Mansion-house. The petitioners stated their belief that the distress arose from taxation, and the petitioners requested a more equal repre sentation of the people at large. COAL TAX. Lord WHARNCLIFVE presented a petition from the dyers and manufacturers of Norwich, against the tax on seaborne coals. This was a most unjust tax, and when so many were taken off, it was most unfortunate that this was not among the number. The tax was, besides, most enormous in its amount, as compared with the price of the article at the mouth of the pit. He was himself a coal prietor, but he thought the subject on every account called for attention. The petition was referred to the Coal Com mittee above stairs. - Earl STANHOPE presented a petition from a certain hundred of the county of Norfolk, representing the dis tressed state of the petitioners, and praying for a reduction of taxation, and for au inquiry into the causes of their dis tresses, and for relief. Lord KING presented a petition from a district in Gloucestershire against the beer tax, and also against the bread tax. In answer to an observation of Lord Stan hope, he said that he might soon take an opportunity of bringing the question of Free Trade in Corn before the House. The Earl of GLENGALL presented a petition from a place in Cavan, and from another place in Ireland, against the extension of the poor laws to Ireland. All these petitions were laid on the table. IRISH POOR LAWS. Earl DARNLEY rose, according to notice, to call the attention of the House to the most important subject of the adoptiob of a system of poor laws in Ireland. The poor in England, it was well known, were entitled to relief, and he would certainly recommend that some law should be adopted to afford a compulsory relief to the sick, the aged, and the infirm in Ireland. He saw his Noble Friend (Lord Limerick) on the other side prepared to take the alarm, and to give his decided opposition to any project of the kind, as he did many years ago, when he took occa sion to call the attention of their Lordships to this subject. He must admit, that on that occasion his proposition was not particularly well received. But since that time a con siderable change had taken place in public opinion with respect to their poor laws ; and political economists in England, Scotland,.and Ireland, as well as others, had come over to his opinion. He was far, however, from meaning to advocate the introduction into Ireland of the same system of poor laws as prevailed in England ; but when lie could prove, as he had offered to do on a former occasion, that people in Ireland were dying of want in the streets and highways, it was high time to adopt some method of compulsory relief for the aged, the sick, and the helpless. How far the compulsory relief should go, be was not then prepared to say. It might, perhaps, be asked why he did not move for a Committee of Inquiry on the subject, as had been done in the House of Commons. But he could add but little information to what their Lord ships already had on the subject, and particularly those who repreeented the Peerage of Ireland. These represen tatives were mush more able to afford information to their Lordships than he was. What he was most anxious for was, to learn whether the Noble Duke at the head of the Administration bad had time to turn his attention to this most important subject, and whether any measures were in contemplation for being pained during the present Session for the relief of the Irish poor? He did not think it expe dient at present to move for a Committee; but in case the Committee of the House of Commons should not bring forward the requisite information on the subject, he would be at liberty at any time to move for a Committee of this House. At present, many Noble Lords who would be the rnost useful Members of such a Committee were employed on other Committees, and, in the meantime, he would he content if the Noble Duke would state what measures the =Ministry had in view for the relief of the Irish poor. The Duke of WELLINGTON, in compliance with the desire of the Noble Earl, stated that the Ministers had it not in contemplation to introduce at present any thing like a genera! system of poor laws into Ireland. But at the "same titnelte bad to . state to their Lordships that the state of Ireland had' engaged_ the particular attention of his Majesty's Government, and several measures were in contemplation Well' either directly or indirectly had for their -object, and he trusted would have the effect of affording r@ief to the aged and infirm, and the sick, and of giving employment to the able-bodied poor. In the first place, there was a measure for the relief of the labouring poor by having them employed by the Grand Juries.— Again, there was a measure for the care of natural chil dren, although that was one which would require a great deal of revision and caution before it was passed into a law. Another was the providing of the city of Dublin with the means of creating an hospital for the distressed, in the same manner as means were provided for that object for other counties in Ireland, by the 58th of the late King.— The state of Ireland most certainly required the most at tentive consideration of his Majesty's Ministers, and of Pattament, and he hoped the subject would meet with that attention which its importance deserved. The Earl of LIMERICK could not pretend to give their Lordships much information, but any that he could give would not be in favour of the establishment of the poor laws in Ireland. His Noble Friend had truly stated that he had started the subject same years ago in this House, on which occasion he was supported by the petition of one man, who, having nothing else to do, thought proper to turn his attention to the state of Ireland ; and lie recol lected that the Petition was received with a loud laugh. But note his Noble Friend said that the political economists and others had come over to his opinion. This was owing to the march of intellect, he supposed ; but neither by march of intellect, nor by political economists, nor by any other influence, would he be persuaded to support any wild schemes of innovation. There were too many of them afloat already; and whether the line of conduct which he would feel it his duty to pursue should be palateable or un paltteable, he would oppose them. If his Noble Friend had proposed to appoint a Committee, he should certainly have opposed the motion; for if that course were adopted, it would excite undue expectationa on the one hand, and great alarm on the other. Ireland was at present fast ad vancing in agriculture and trade, and in the accumulation of capital; but if the system of the poor laws was intro duced there, everything would tumble down, and leave all on the same hopeless level of poverty. The Earl of AIALMESBURY really thought that his Noble Friend should have moved for a Committee. He did not thick that it was always the best way for their Lordships to take their information from the other House, and sometimes the information could not be bad in time. For instance, when the. new police measure came before the House—a most important measure, even in a Consti tutional point of view, but a good one as it turned out— he that a message be sent to the Commons to desire that they would send up the evidence taken on the subject before their Committee, but it did not come till the second reading of the Bill. His Noble Friend had said that there were other Committees, particularly the East India Committee, now sitting, which occupied the attention of many of their Lordships. But theme were surely. sufficient numbers among their Lordships fer a Committee on this subject also. And if it should be desir able that those who sat on the East India Committee should sit en this Committee also, why should they not sit on alternate days? There was one point which hail not yet been touched upon, and that was the great expense in several parts of England of passing Irishmen to the coast, and sending them to their own country. There was one county in the Walt of England in which thousands of Irishmen were passed in this manner. The expences of this mode of passing English paupers were repaid by their places of settlement, but there was no fund for repayment in Ireland ; and yet there was no reason why the Irish landlords should not reciprocally pay that expense as well as the English landlords. That was a point well desert ing of investigation. He did not mean to say that th'e poor laws should be established in the same shape as in England, particularly 'as to . the mode of the appointments, , and undue assessments. But the poor law system, ab stractedly considered, was a good one. lle hoped a Corn mittee would be appointed ; and that the East India Com mittee may sit on alternate days, as had been done by the Lunatic and Wool Committees. The Earl of LIMERICK observed, that while some talked of the expence of passing Irishmen, others proposed the erection of gaols along the western coast, for the depo siting ot their poor brethren of Ireland. Some had even objected to the importation of cattle from Ireland—of which sex he:did not know. Perhaps they would object even to the importation of bulls, as well as of Irishmen. The Earl of MALMESBURY did not mean to flatter the wit o f his Noble Friend, but certainly it was a heavy cxpence passing these Irish travelling gentlemen—(A laugh)—and it was fitting that the Irish landlords should defray it. The Duke of BUCKINGHAAI was extremely glad that the Ministers proposed that the Irish Grand Juries were to be made to employ the Irish poor, for the operations of these Irish Grand Juries had been long the most barefaced of jobs. As to the general question, he agreed that a sys tem of Poor Laws was necessary, and that the vice was in the administration. The Earl of WICKLOW agreed with his noble relative as to the general inexpediency of appointinc , a Committee on this subject, but there were reasons which induced him to think a Committee ought to be appointed. One of these was that the Committee was already formed in the House of Commons; but whether the House granted a Committee or not, he trusted that if any measure should be proposed to'Parliament as the result of the labours of the Committee in the House of Commons, their Lordships would meet it with a fair, deliberate, and unprejudiced consideration: He wished especially that some measure should be adopted to remove from the mind of the English agriculturist the belief that the introduction of a system of poor lass into Ireland would prevent the immigration of the labourers from that country to this. Ile doubted much whether that immigration was an evil; but suppos ing that it was, he would ask whether the introduction of poor laws into Ireland was likely to prevent these immi grations ? He must say that he was far from anticipating that such would be the result. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM assured the Noble Earl he had not recommended any such thing ; for he had not yet made up his mind on the subject. The Earl of WICKLOW observed, that to attempt such a measure would be like attempting to transplant the forest of Hampshire into the rocks, bogs, and wilds of Connemara. There was another objection to the system of the poor laws. They tended to seal up the sources of private benevolence, and he was sure that in that respect they would be mischievous in their effects in Ireland. The Marquis of SALISBURY trusted that some mea sures would be adopted to relieve the distresses of the Irish poor. He could not agree with those Noble Lords who thought that the emigrations of the-Irish labourers were not a grievance ; he thought them a great grievance. These people came over and worked at very low wages, and in a great measure took the bread out of the mouths of the English labourers, and that at a time when the English labourers would otherwise be able to make enough money to save themselves during the worst parts of the year from applying for parochial relief.—(Hear, hear. )—At such times these Irish labourers came over, subsisted for a few weeks before the busy time came on, either by beggary or petty robbery, and afterwards threw themselves on the parish to be passed back again to Ire land. He would only add, that if poor laws were to be established in Ireland, they ought to be more guarded as to their administration than they were here. The Earl of LIMERICK said, were the men who de fended the country with their blood, and expended their labour in its cultivation, to be denied the privilege of bring ing their labour to the hest market, at a time when they could dispose of it to the greatest advantage? As to the statement that these Irish labourers subsisted by robbery, he denied it in toto. The Marquis of SALISBURY did not mean to offend the Noble Earl or the people of Ireland, bnt he supposed the Noble Earl would hardly take upon himself to answer for the, honesty of every Irish labourer that came over to this country ; and the Quarter Sessions attested this fact that just about the time of their emigrations, the numbers of petty robberies were Considerably increased. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought no case had been made nut for a Committee with reference to Ireland. He trusted our abominable system would never he intro duced elsewhere. The emigrations of Irish labourers could not be prevented by the introduction of a system of poor laws into Ireland; and it would be most unjust if they could. Earl STANHOPE could not lose that opportunity of protesting against the opinions now expressed as to the abuses of the administration of the poor laws. The real cause of the present high amount of poor rates was not the abuses of their administration, but the want of employ ►nent for the poor. It was impossible that any mal-ad ministration of the poor rates could have increased them 20s. or 30s. an acre, or in some cases raised them to an amount that was equivalent to a total confiscation of the land. He thought the cause of this distress imperiously called for an inquiry. With respect to the introduction of poor laws into Ireland, he did not think it would prevent the emigration of Irish labourers here. The best way to cure the evils of that country was to get rid of a body of men who were the real causes of the pauperism of that country—he meant the middle-men of Ireland. Earl DARNLEY said, that however they might differ among themselves as to the means, the object of all was to provide relief for the aged, and the infirm, and the needy part of the population of Ireland. After the explanation of the Noble Duke opposite, and with the knowledge that the subject was in excellent hands in the Committee of the House of Commons, he should not at present press the subject further on their Lordships' attention. On the principle of the matter there could be no question that poor laws ought to be introduced into Ireland, the only differences were as to the effects that would be produced. He should take the occasion presented by the motion of the Noble Duke on Thursday, to call the attention of the House again to this subject. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said that if his Noble Relative had attended to that experience which had been attained by the active Magistrates of this country, he would be convinced that the payment of wages from the poor rates was a great evil. COURT OF CHANCERY. The LORD CHANCELLOR gave notice that on Mon day next he should submit a motion to their Lordships upon the business of the Court of Chancery, and that he should take that opportunity of explaining the measures now in progress relative to the amendment of the general administration of the laws of the country.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT). Mr. HOBHOUSE presented a petition from the pa rishes of St. George's, Bloomsbury, against the Select Vestry Bill. _ _ _ Colonel SIBTHORPE presented a petition from Spils bury, complaining of general distress. Sir WM. HEATIICOTE presented several similar petitions from places in -the county of Hants. Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT presented a petition from the county of Hertford, complaining- of general distress, and praying for a reduction of the duty on malt and hops, and also for Parliamentary Reform. Colonel CRADOCK presented a petition from Camel ford, praying for a reduction of the duty on Coals. Mr. HUME postponed his motion respecting Light Houses until the 20th of April. The Hon. Member then moved for various returns respecting the Quarter Sessions in Scotland. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. Sir R. VYVYAN said he had given notice of a Call of the House this evening, for the purpose of insuring a full attendance of Members when the subject relating to the distress of the country came on. As, however, there were so numerous an attendance, and knowing many other Members intended to come, he should now move to with draw that notice.—Notice withdrawn. EAST INDIA MONOPOLY. Mr. I-lUME presented a petition from the Merchants Mainfacturers, Ship-owners, &c., of Aberdeen, against the. Monop ply of the East India Company. Mr. BATTLEY presented a similar petition from Be verley.—They were referred to the Committee on the Charter. THE TRUCK SYSTEM. Colonel LYGON presented a petition against the Truck System, from Worcestershire. DITTY ON CIDER. Lord EASTNOR presented a petition from Hereford shire, praying that if the duty :on cider were repealed, allowance might be made for the stock on hand. A petition was presented from Aylesbury, complaining of general distress, by an How. INlEmarta whose name we could not learn. _ _ . Mr. ;I....ANEY observed, that the chief complaints re specting di-tress proceeded from bodies whose own abuse of the Poor Laws in a great degree led to the evil of which they complained. Lord NUGENT said, nothing could be more true than what fell from the Non. Member opposite. The farmers and landowners had the improvidence of their predecessors to blame for much of the present distress, for, during the time of high prices, labour never received the remunera tion which was proportioned to its deserts. With respect to the beer tax, the repeal of it lately announced was a great boon to the public, and was calculated to operate much improvement in the condition of the lower classes in the neighbourhood from which the petition came. Sir M. W. RIDLEY doubted that the distress was by any means so great as bad in some quarters been re presented, and at all events he thought those who so loudly called for reform ought to begin at home, and effect re formation amongst themselves. Lord NUGENT could scarcely recommend reform amongst his constituents.—(A laugh.) - The petition was then brought up, and ordered to lie on the table. Lord NUGENT then presented a petition from an in dividual named George Goodwin, of some place in Hunt ingdonshire, complaining that an application of his for a beer license had been refused by the Magistrates, and the petition complained generally of the licencing system. An How. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, said that there were thirty-two public houses in the town from which the petition came, and with only a population of 2,800. Within one hundred yards of the house which he claimed to have licensed, there were six public houses, one of which brewed its own beer. It was upon these grounds that the license had been refused. The petition to lie on the table. Mr. WILMOT HORTON presented a petition from the Emigration Society of Somersetshire, praying for assistance to Emigration.—To lie on the table. The same How. MEstuzs. presented a petition from the Licensed Victuallers of Newcastle-under-Line, and from a parish in the same town, both complaining of the Track System.---To lie on the table. Mr. PENDARVIS presented a petition from the Mer chants, Bankers, and others, of Hull, in Yorkshire, against Capital Punishment.--=To be printed. Lord MANDEVILLE presented a petition from Hunt ingdon, complaining of distress, and praying for a repeal of the malt duty.—To lie on the table. Mr. CRIPPS presented a petition from Cirencester against Capital Punishments.—To be printed. Lord MILTON presented petitions from Huddersfield. Halifax, and Bradford, against the East India Monopoly. —Referred to the Committee on the East India Company's Charter. Mr. SADLER presented a petition from Mr. John Wright, a large proprietor (as we understood) of Coal and Iron Mines, complaining of the public distress. After a few words from Mr. TENNYSON, which were not audible, Mr. SAD LER bore testimony to the respectability of the petitioner.—The petition to be printed. The same HoN. MamßEa presented a similar petition from Leeds, signed by 1,500 persoas, many of whom, he said, were heads of families. He observed, that to those the remark of the Hon. Member opposite, respecting the abuse of the poor laws, did not apply. Mr. SLANEY said his remark was applied to the agri cultural, not the manufacturing districts.—To be printed. Mr. BYNG presented a petition from the Landowners, Farmers, Cowkeepers, and others, in the vicinity of the Metropolis, complaining of the intended removal of the Haymarket. The same HON. MEMBER presented a similar petition from the Licensed Victuallers of the Haymarket. Bath to lie on the table. Mr. CARTWRIGHT rose to present a petition from the county of Northampton, complaining of general dis tress, and praying for general relief. The petition bore the signature of the High Sheriff; and as his, of course, it must be received ; but it certainly proceeded from a county meeting. At that meeting another petition was proposed, which included a prayer for Parliamentary Reform. The two petitions were put to the meeting; and the High She riff, upon a show of hands, decided that the majority was in favour of that now in his hand. He would not con ceal that a strong feeling existed that the decision on the show of hands was erroneous. He would not say whether the High Sheriff was right or wrong ; but this he would say, that he never saw more good feeling or good temper than prevailed during that meeting ; and he had no doubt that those who attended would receive the announcement recently made by the Government on the subject of taxa tion most gratefully; for the relief was calculated pecu liarly to benefit the poor. Lord ALTHORP—No doubt the petition was the peti tion of the High Sheriff. The High Sheriff persuaded himself that it was the petition of the meeting; but there were not two persons present who agreed with him in that opinion. Some of those immediately near the High Sheriff might have held up their hands in favour of the petition ; but the great mass of those in the hall were against it ; amongst whom were one Banker, several Clergymen, and others of much respectability. He had great satisfaction in thinking that so respectable a meeting of his constituents had declared in favour of Parliamentary Reform. The petition to be printed. Mr. MARSHALL presented a petition from Selby, in Yorkshire, against the East India monopoly. Referred to the Committee on the Charter. Mr. F. BUXTON, in presenting a petition from the Protestant Dissenters assembling in Eagle-street, Red,Lion square, and two other places, against Suttees, wished to know from the Noble Lord opposite if there were any foun dation for the report that the British Government in India had prohibited the practice of burning widows ? Lord ASHLEY, in the absence of official documents, could say nothing definitely, but he thought the report might be well founded. Lord ALTHORP presented a petition from a parish in the county of Waterford, complaining that in consequence of its union with the parish of Ross it was made liable to Church Rates, though the petitioners were all Roman Ca tholics, and though the perish church was eleven mil es distant from them. • After a few words from Sir J. Newport, Mr. O'Con nell, Mr. G. Moore, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer, the petition was ordered to be printed. DISTRESS OF THE COUNTRY. Petitions on this subject were presented from Norfolk, by Lord Althorp ; from the weavers in King's County, and from Gort, in the county of Galway, by Mr. O'Con nell ; and from the County of Ross, by Mr. W. Smith. Mr. OTWAY CAVE presented a petition from the manufacturers and tradesmen of Leicester, and Mr. DUN. COMBE a petition from the President, Vice-President, and Subscribers to the Agricultural Society of Yorkshire, complaining of the pressure of distress on certain classes of society. Mr. CAVE also presented a petition from a parish in Leinster (Ireland) against the Vestry Act. Mr. O'CONNELL presented three petitions against the tax on leather from different places in Ireland. As that tax was to be taken off, the petitions were unnecessary ; but be would take that opportunity of suggesting that a speedy composition Of the duty would be adviseable, in order that the trade of tanner and currier might be united , as soon as possible. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from Belfast, relative to the Fisheries there. Mr. O'CONNELL presented petitions from St. George, Limerick, and from St. Mary, Dublin, against the Vestry and Sub-letting Acts. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from five united parishes in the County of Wexford, against the mode of levying tithes ; and also a petition from Gort, in the County of Galway, against the Sub-letting Act. Mr. O'CONNELL gave notice that he should, on Thum day, move for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal, in express terms, the several statutes that were in force in Ireland against the Dissenters and Roman Catholics, that had been rendered inoperative by statutes since enacted, but which had not been directly repealed. Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from Swain bridge, in Yorkshire, against the importation of foreign lead. Mr. W. SMITH presented a petition from the Ministers of Wesleyan and other Dissenting Congregations, in Dud ley, against the Truck System. Mr. HUME protested against Clergymen interfering on such a subject. Mr. W. SMITH said, that the petitioners stated how unwilling they were to interfere, but that they had felt themselves compelled, on witnessing the degree of mischief produced by the system. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Rochdale, against the East India Charter. Mr. SYKES presented petitions from Hull against the Assessed Taxes and the Poor Laws Amendment Bill ; also a petition from the same place, relative to the Recovery of Small Debts. Mr. HEATHCOTE presented a petition from Boston, on the state of distress prevalent in the country. Mr. IRVING knew, from excellent authority, that at present there was more work at Leeds than there had been for many years. He did not believe there was one man who might not find employment.___fHear, hear.)—For some of our manufactures there was at present a greater demand than there had been at any fortn;..r period. Lord RANCLIFFE bore testimony to the existence of great distress ; but expressed his thankfulness to the Go vernment for what it had done, and said that the people relied on his Majesty's Government and on the wisdom of Parliament. _ _ _ After a few words from Mr. lIEATHCOTE, the petition was read and laid on the table. PUBLIC DISTRESS—TILE MALT TRADE. - u to the statement of the Chancellor He admitted that the reduction of taxation had been ju dicious; but he would recommend the Chancellor of the Exchequer to revise the whole system of taxation, with a view of adapting duties which had been enormously raised during a depreciated currency to the present raised value of money. He would like to take that opportunity of asking the Right Hon. Gent. opposite a question re'a tive to the reduction on the malt trade. He would ask' what were his intentions, as lie proposed to make no alterations in the malt duties, with respect to alleviating the burden of restrictions under which the trade laboured ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER had re ceived during last year a number of communications from gentlemen to whom the malsters had entrusted their inte rests. He bad consented that those gentlemen should have an interview with the Commissioners of the Excise, with the intention of providing such regulations as, with out injuring the revenue, would give relief to the trade. They had come to an agreement, and a Bill had been pro posed accordingly, which he had not yet been able to in troduce into Parliament from the pressure of business. Mr. PORTMAN, as a party to the arrangement, hoped that the Bill would soon be introduced. Mr. BROWNLOW took that opportunity of remind ing the Chancellor of the Exchequer of petitions he had frequently presented to have the duties on Irish and Scotch Malt equalised. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was un derstood to assent to the suggestion of the Hon. Member. Mr. SLANEY and Mr7BRANSBY COOPER each said a few words. Mr. ESTCOURT having, also, a petition to present from Duraley, took that opportunity of confirming the statement of the distress in that town made by the Noble Lord. Besides the fifteen hundred persons mentioned as receiving relief, one thousand others were unable to con tribute to their support. Of seven factories, three were entirely shut up, and two were only working one day in three. There was another town in the neighbourhood equally distressed; he doubted if there were that prosperity in the woollen manufacture mentioned by the Hon. Mem ber from Bramber, and heartily wished it were true of the distressed people of Gloucestershire. It certainly was not the case among the petitioners. Mr. IRVING thought that the cause of distress in Gloucestershire was, that the manufacture was migrating from thence and from the West of England into Yorkshire, principally on account of the cheapness of coal. In the same manner, the silk manufacture was emigrating from Spitalfields to the country. Mr. DICKENSON knew that the reverse was the case in the West of England : he had received a letter from a manufacturer, stating that it was no use embarking capital, and that he meant to withdraw from the trade. 'Mr. CRIPPS was understood to say that many parishes were in such a state that they could not possibly support their own poor, and must be assisted. Mr. SLANEY was prepared to answer the statement, but he would not then do it. Mr. C. FERGUSSON thought it would be more satis factory to the House if the Hon. Member for 'Bramber had also stated that the manufacturers who were doing so much work were making adequate profits, and that the men were obtaining good wages. He knew on good grounds that the wages of the manufacturers were not above 4s. 6d. per week. In the west of Scotland, where the distress was not so great as in England, the wages were not above ss. per week. He wished to take that op portunity of correcting a mistake which had got abroad, as to what he stated on a former evening. He had never stated that there was no distress in Scotland. What he stated was, that the distress among the agricultural labourers in Scotland was not equal to that among the same description of persons in England ; but he believed that the distress among the landoWners and farmers was quite equal to that of the landowners and farmers of Eng land, if not greater. _ _ _ Mr. W. WHITMORE was understood to deprecate such desultory remarks. After a few words from General GASCOYNE, Mr. In, viric, and Mr. FYNES CLINTON, the petition from Durs ley, presented by Lord .1. Russztr., was brought up and read, and ordered to be printed. The Nonr.x LORD also presented a petition from Wexford, relative to the late election. Mr. ESTCOURT presented a petition from Dursley, praying for a full inquiry into the causes of the distress. WEXFORD ELECTION. On the motion of Mr. I. CI.IVE, the evidence taken before the Wexford Election Committee was ordered to be printed. TRUCK SYSTEM. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from Ampney, Staffordshire, against paying labourers' wages in goods in stead of money. The petition was agreed to at a large public meeting, and signed by 9,000 persona. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY supported the petition. Mr. HUME - wished the House not to believe that the Truck System was the cause of the distress ; it was the consequence of it. Mr. LITTLETON presented a similar petition from certain colliers in Staffordshire, from Wolverhampton, and from Uley, Gloucestershire. The Hon. Mesreee also presented a petition from the liberties of Lington and Lane-end. The petitioners com plained of distress, and prayed for relief. The petition was ordered to he printed. MALT DUTY. Mr. SLANEY, in consequence of the very satisfactory announcement of the Right Hon. Gentleman last night, with respect to the duties on beer, and the removal of some of the taxes which pressed heavily on the poorer classes, withdrew the motion, of which he had given notice on these subjects. Sir F. BURDETT presented a petition from the parish of Uley, in Gloucestershire, complaining of distress, and praying for a free trade in corn; and from Stroud, in Kent, complaining of the duty on beer. The petitions were ordered to be printed. Mr. DENISON presented a petition from the woollen manufacturers of the parish of St. Mary Magdalen, Ber mondsey, one of the most populous in the county of Sur rey, complaining of the duty on wool, and praying for its reduction. The Hon. Member, after expressing a hope that the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Chancellor of the E xchequer, would pursue the course he had begun, and re-1 duce more taxes next year, presented petitions from the agriculturists of several parishes, praying a reduction of the duty on malt. Mr. DICKENSON presented a petition from Frome, in Somersetshire, praying that the monopoly of trade with India may be taken away from the East India Company. DISTRESSED STATE OF THE COUNTRY. Mr. EDWARD D. DAVENPORT, in bringing under the consideration of the House a motion for a Committee to inquire into the distressed state of the country at the pre sent moment, expressed a determination not to shrink from the task he had imposed on himself, although the statement elicited from the Chancellor of the Exchequer last night, by the repeated calls of the people, had probably afforded some of his (Mr. Davenport's) friends—his lukewarm friends—an opportunity of blinking the present question, and given them an apology for abandoning an inquiry into the distresses of the people, from a supposition that they would receive relief, in consequence of the measures the Government proposed to adopt. He trusted, however, by the vote of that evening, to ascertain how far they were disposed to exert themselves to procure a remission of tax ation, and thereby to' obtain the means of giving employ ment to thousands who were, as, he would presently show, not only without bread, but without the roots of bread.- I,A laugh)—from the pressure of distress. It would be seen whether they were desirous of giving relief to those who demanded it, and whether they were determined to persevere in giving a Ministerial or patriotic vote. He could not understand how that House could continue as it did to disregard the prayers of the people, who were now suffering a distress which might be truly stated as unpre cedented in the history of the country. He doubted, in deed, whether in any country whose interests were en trusted to Representatives of the people, there ever was an instance of that people being placed in such a state of de priVation and distress as they were now suffering, and yet at the sante time being refused by their own Representa tives all means or opportunities of proving to them that there was such distress; and still more, he believed there was no instance in the history of any country possessing Representatives, who displayed nu disposition to relieve that distress, or even to inquire into its existence. La proof of that distress, lie would call in the evidence of one of the largest of the central towns of the kingdom—he al luded to the town of Birmingham —and he would also call in the evidence of the petition from the town of Leicester, Presented that evening, as a proof that he had not been guilty of exaggeration of the facts ; but the petitions were disregarded. Those to whom they were addressed seemed to be deaf to the prayers and blind to the misfor tunes of the people. They seemed, indeed, to come truly under the description of those who ‘. Made the measure small and the coin great, Falsifying the balance by deceit." The petitions, 'it - was singular to say, were not addressed to the House of Commons, to the House of Lords, nor eveg to the King ; fur the Father of his People in these times Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a petition from was no more h eard of than if he was not a member of the Dorsky, complaining of great (ogress, and a s ki n g for family. ---- ( Hear, and a laugh.)—The petitions were ad relief. Of 4,000 inhabitants 1,500 were receiving relief. dressed to the Most Noble Arthur Duke of Wellington, The Noble Lord stated his concurrenc e with what had who was generally supposed to be a kind of fourth Estate fallen last night from the Hon- Member for Northampton in the Country, and to unite in his person the other three 4 1. put teogher..—()'reat and laughter.)—Tl . people seemed to thin , with some reason, that it was better to addreis the person from whom all power emanated, and they hoped that he would show more solicitude for his coun trymen, who had showered on him such boundless fa- Yours, than they had received from those representatives to whom they had entrusted their interests. He could not blame them for this. The fault lay with that House, which refused to hear the complaints of the people ; but this he would say, that an innovation of that kind coming in a petition from no less than three counties, would have made their forefathers start from their graves with horror, to reproach them for their degeneracy, and to incite them to recover their independence. A country placed in such a situation was a thing scarcely to be believed. The ship ping interests, the trading, the manufacturing, the agri cultural, every class in the country, came before the House with petitions, complaining of distress ; but when they ventured to allude to the cause of that distress, or called on the Members to inquire into the cause, they were treated with indifference, or silenced by clamour and con tempt. He did not overstate this. It was but too true ; and if any one presumed to raise his voice in their defence, or dared to interfere between the spoliators and their vic tim, they were opposed by a conspiracy of persons inte rested in a continuance of the abuses, and anxious to pre vent the voices of the people from being heard in that House, or even to allow what was said in their favour being heard beyond its walls. Government, however, seemed just now to have slightly altered their tone, and to be determined, if he was to judge from the reductions announced last night, and the explana tions connected with thenA, to give a kind of Dutch con cert, in which there would be an ample number of bass voices. He would ask them, however, to extend their candour and their entertainment a little farther, and grant him a Committee to inquire freely and fairly into the cause of the sufferings of the people. Why was it, in deed, that such an inquiry should be refused? It was never resisted in the case of a Turnpike or a Road Bill ; and why it was that they should refuse to look into the abyss of misery in which they were plunged, and reject all examination into the method of alleviating their condi tion, it was impossible to conceive. If they rejected all inquiry, it might end in locking up the House of Com mons. He did not venture to predict that which was said of the House elsewhere; but he really did think that they might be very properly disposed of by such a fate.—(A laugh.)—He only suggested the possibilitz of such a ca tastrophe. Another danger to be apprehended was, that the people would begin to suspect there was a distinction drawn between the rich and the poor—between the capitalist and the producers of capital—between the payers and the re ceivers of taxes. Of course there was no such thing in that House as a preference of their own interests; but then there was a danger that the people might not be aware of the wisdom of the House, or of its excellence and probity; and at all events there was prudence in not calling on them to take these things too much on assertion. He did not attribute to others that which he was not willing to confess applicable to himself. He had a personal interest in the discussion of the question. He was not one of those who had amassed a large fortune through the means of laws made for the protection of themselves. He had not made a fortune by usury, or by taking advantage of favourable changes to turn over his property in the money market. He was one of those whose estates had descended to him from his forefathers—one of that unfortunate class to whom belonged almost the whole of the land in the country ; and in the name of that class, and of every other class suffering in common with it, he solicited an inquiry into the nature of the evils which produced their distress. He knew well that the Government were deter mined to oppose whatever course, he might think proper' to adopt, but lie hoped at the same time that there might be some Members who were now sensible of the cajoleries attempted to .be practised on them, and who would join with him in compelling the House to do justice to the people. He did not mean by the motion the downhill race all ought to start fair. The _question 11 1 1 suffered from the indisposition of the l an d owners o f Engler. „ to speak out. He was sorry to say that their servility, toes love of titles and distinction, and still more, their dispos i. tion to provide for their families in various professions, IV Y vented them from speaking out, and denying the s t a t e men d t e of his Majesty's Mi n i s t ers . Th e commerc i a l interest 41° not speak their minds freely on the question, from apPr e. hension of personal results. It was far better that a no t : chant should have his honour suspected than his wealts' With the merchant, respectability and wealth were cul l ; vertible terms. When th e ma tt er was pu t t o t h em, a 64' dear," they answered, " there are some sufferers, certain l Y,', but persons of credit and capital are doing vastly well ; and at the very moment they themselves were probably on the verge of bankruptcy. Out of a hundred greet foreign merchants in Birmingham five and twenty years ago, only five now remained ; and of the internal merchants, in the same place three-fourths had disappeared. There' had been 1,677 bankruptcies within the year, a greater; number than in any preceding year except one. The Hon ' , Member here read a letter from a respectable merchant 0 1 Manchester, a man of the highest character, to show hoer much the trade of that town had suffered; and how inef fectual the precautions which up to 1828 had been success' ful in preventing bad debts had lately proved. The ins& vencies were as numerous as the bankruptcies. Th er e wss no money circulating. The consequence was that in mssr, cases people were obliged to revert to the old system Is barter. The miller and the ironmaster interchanged tbed commodities. The manufacturing districts were struggling with absolute want. At Coventry alone, a short time API a charitable subscription having been raised, there were 12,000 applicants for relief on the first day. Mucks' field was equally distressed. At Huddersfield, 13,00 0 1 people had been working through the winter at twopence half-penny a day. Leeds, Blackburn, Norwich, and a va riety of other places, were all experiencing the greatest misery. He had reason to know that at Barnsley, S e ttle, and Skipton, half th e p o p u l a ti on were ma i nta i ne d ou t 0 the poor rates. At Barnsley, the impatience of the people broke out into riot. He would call the attention of 1110 House to the state of the bullion market. He had stated three years ago, upon the authority of a Minister of Fi nance in Spain, that the supply of the precious metals would cease as soon as soon as the South American colo nies were independent of the mother country. The Ge velment, therefore, had chosen a wrong period to call in the paper, and to revert to a metallic medium. H e ob jected to depriving the people of the option of paying i° gold or silver, and he had to conplain of the repeal of the laws against exporting the current coin of the realm. The Hon. Member went through numerous statements respect' lug the currency, which it was impossible to hear in the gallery; and he concluded by moving " That all the peti tions sent to that House by various parties, and complain' ing of distress, he referred to a Committee of the whole House, with a view of inquiring into the distress, and its causes, and to report upon the remedies." Mr. IRVING addressed the House. If he (Mr. Irving) could understand what the Hon. Member had said, it was his opinion that the alterations in the currency had occa sioned all the distress. But although he (Mr. Irving) had originally opposed the alteration of the currency, now tbs t the change had taken place, he thought that in any further change the evils would be great, and the good at best but problematical ; and he was now convinced that the circu lation was quite adequate to the wants of the country. From the overflowinga of the counting-houses in the de positories of the, bankers, there was now a sum of not less to turn the Ministry out.—(A laugh.)—He did not un derstand the laugh. He knew that It would be madness to hope for such a result, and that be might as well say he would pull the Home down, as attempt to remove a Government supported by such majorities. For two-and-thirty years all contracts had been framed, all taxes imposed, in one currency. That currency had been altered ; and yet his Majesty's Ministers said that the cur rency question had nothing to do with the distress, that the currency question had nothing to do with the want of currency ! lle knew, however, that they would endeavour to shut the eyes of the House to the present state of the country, by painting flattering pictures in the most glowing colours of the state in which it would be next year. The fallacy of such a prediction would be best exposed by a re ference to the fallacy of similar predictions in former years. The Noble Duke at the head of his Majesty's Government had adopted a very convenient method of an swering all the arguments and statements on the subject. In the first place, the Noble Duke directly denied the ex than five or six millions in bank notes belonging to indivi duals totally unemployed. There might be great distress in the country, but it could not be to the extent pretended by the Hon. Member. There was a great difficulty t° get the metallic currency into circulation in the•country , for when issued it returned to the Bank of England. Ile doubted very much the propriety of a silver tender, as silver was more exposed to fluctuations and to frauds. A' the Hon. Member had spoken of the state of Manchester, he would take the liberty of reading a paragraph of a letter from that town, from a parson very well known to be in telligent upon such subjects. The writer said that th e hand loom was better employed than it had been som e years ago ; and that wages, although still very low, had been advanced. A greater number of people were em ployed than ever, and they received good wages, and many of them high wages. The writer went on to state, in reply to what had been said by the Member for Coventry, that as to the silk trade, he lord paid some attention to it, awl had good :terrain to believe that, from 1823, the silk trade had never been in a better condition, and there sex' now a great export of Bandana handkerchiefs to Ger many, Italy, and South America. The activity M Glasgow and Paisley had likewise increased. The import of cotton since 1819 had doubled, and the Pre duce of the manufacture had doubled also. Of all branches of industry, none had a greater reason of complaint than the ship-owners ; but still, looking at the value of ships in comparison of the prices at which they could be built, he did not believe that even this was a losing trade. Agri culture had suffered, but from a great variety of causes, and none was more prominent than the badness of the season. He had occasion this day to inquire into the state of trade in that town, during the last two ntiontbs and a half, and he was happy to mention the result of his in• quiries. From Ist January to 13th March, there had been an increased importation of 32,400 bales of cotton, making an increase of twenty per cent, compared with the imports for the same period last year. In London there had been within the same period an increased importation of indigo to the amount of 49,0001b5. The increase upon coffee had been fifty ;per cent., and upon sugar twenty seven. He produced this statement in refutation of what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Shaftesbury. He had thought that the lion. Member for Shaftesbury would have stated some other causes for the distress of the country than that of an alteration of the currency ; but since he hail not thought proper to do so, he would take the liberty of mentioning a few. In the first place, it was very well known to that House and to the whole kingdom that almost every country in Europe, and even in America— not omitting the States of South America—had been making efforts to manufacture fur themselves. Russia, with a serf population—with a winter of eight months-- with an interest on money of ten per cent.—yet insisted on having its own manufactures. The same anxiety pre veiled upon the part of Prussia, Austria, the Netherlands, and France ; and they attempted to place prohibitory duties on our goods, by which there certainly had been a great interruption to our manufactures ; still British com modities had found their way to some extent into those countries. The United States hail proceeded even farther than the other Powers he had mentioned. They had im posed duties on our goods, amounting to 15, 20, and in some cases 25 per cent. Was not this, he asked, a reason for the interruption which had been given to our manufac tures? And still, notwithstanding all, our exports had exceeded those of former years. Upon the whole, he believed the description of the nature and extent of the distress given in the King's speech was much more correct than the assertions embodied in the comments upon it. Mr. WARD was anxious to correct a misrepresentation of a statement made by him on the first night of the Ses sion, when placed under peculiar circumstances. H e did not say that the distress existed 'only in particular districts —he did not say it existed universally—but he left gen tlemen to consider the description of the distress, and to come to a conclusion respecting it for themselves. He did say that the distress was of an extraordinary charac ter, and this assertion he repeated, and would abide by. On all former occasions of distress, there was some ob vious reason for its existence. In 1810 the Berlin and Milan Decrees took place, and the distress which followed might be assigned to them. In 1816 the change from war to peace accounted for the pressure. In 1826 there was the change in the currency ; and after 1826 there was the panic which prevailed to account for the distress; but the present was strange, because there was no feature of this kind to be observed. Now these were the sentiments he had uttered ; and as he certainly had been misunder stood, he thought it necessary to make this explanations He had risen fur the purpose of stating this; but, as he was upon his legs, perhaps the House would permit him to say a few words more. The Hon. Member for Shaftes bury seemed disposed to think that the persons interested in the funds were anxious to undermine the connection between landlords and tenants ; but lie certainly was not one of those who wished to break the ties that bound those parties together, or who was desirous of making the poor man look upon his superior with a jealous ey e ; still, how ever, at all risks of misconception or misrepre sen tati o n s he must say that rents should be reduced—it was un avoidable. And he would state the principle upon which he founded this opinion. His idea was, that the relation between the landlord and tenant was precisely the same as that between the capitalist and the manufacturer—and as the interest on the money of the capitalist was in propor tion to the profit of the manufacturer on his manufactures, so should the rent of the landlord be proportionable to the profit of the tenant on the produce of the land. Now, eush being his opinion, he could not consent to maintain the landlord in the rents he enjoyed during the war, when the capitalist was obliged to be content with lower profits. One of his principal objects in rising was to show the fact—or, at least, the nearest possible approximation to the fact. It appeared from a paper he had applied for to the House, that in 1828 there was a circulating medium of 22,400,000/. in gold. From May 28 to January 29, there was an additional sum of 410,000/. in gold.-- Dori's?: this period, it was calculated that there was half istence of any distress ; but afterwards, abandoning that direct denial, behind which he was as impregnable as be hind the lines of Torrea Vedras, he admitted that the situ ation of some of the retail traders was an exception to the general prosperity. That was certainly true ; fir a peti tion had been presented from Manchester, signed by almost every retail dealer in the place, stating that the distress was never so great on any former occasion. The Noble Duke then talked of the great quantity of business done on the canals. He carefully abstained, however, from saying anything of the present value of the shares ; most of which were at a discount of thirty-five per cent. To that the Noble Duke added, that wool and meat still produced re munerating prices ; the fact being, that wood had fallen a half, and meat five-and-twenty per cent, in one year. After all this it was evident that the Noble Duke ought not to meddle with calculations ; but that he should con tent himself with silence, or, like Lord Burleigh, with shaking his head. Reverting to the question of the cur rency, the Noble Duke had stated that the amount in cir culation was 28,000,0001. ; the Chancellor of the Ex chequer stated that in 1828 the amount of sovereigns in circulation was twenty-two millions, and that there having been since issued 4,800,0001. the amount now was twenty six millions. But from that must be deducted what had been exported for the payment of corn. He had reason to believe that 11,000 quarters of foreign corn bad been so purchased ; and therefore that the amount of sovereigns at present in circulation did not exceed twenty-five mil lions. The Noble Duke had made several other discoveries of equal value ; for all which he supposed it was that his Grace received so large a salary from the public. The Right Hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in May, 1828, that the amount of. one-pound notes in circulation was 2,400,0001. He (Mr. Davenport) impugned that statement, on grounds the accuracy of which had been proved by the result ; and had maintained that the amount was nearer six millions. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said, that if the one-pound notes were withdrawn from the circulation, they would be replaced first by a small issue of sovereigns, and then by an increase of ten and five-pound notes. What was the fact ? That although there had been issued 800,000 sovereigns, instead of 400,000, yet that there had been a diminution of above four millions in the circulation office-pound notes ; which, added to the six millions of one-pound notes, made the quantity of paper withdrawn from circulation in one year nearly ten millions. Was it surprising, after this, that so much distress had shown itself? Many of the friends of his Majesty's Government endeavoured to screen them on the score of their ignorance. He should be deficient in candour if be did not give them the benefit of that plea. But it could not go beyond a certain extent. How could it be pleaded, after they saw the havoc which their mea sures were producing i❑ the country ? They saw that the country was filling with pauperism and misery, and yet they adhered to the measures by which those evils had been occasioned. He rather accused them, therefore, of tenacity of purpose than of ignorance —between culpable ignorance and culpable obstinacy he believed that they had chosen the latter. How had the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statements of last year been borne out by the results ? The price of wheat had fallen in May and June last 25 per cent. ; and if the last harvest had not been so had, he had no doubt that the present price would have been 4e. 6d. a bushel. The graziers had fared still worse than the farmers. Referring to the prices at Ballinasloe fair, as compared with preceeding years, the price of cattle had fallen considerably. At Dumfries they had been sold at a loss. In Warwickshire the price had fallen 25 per cent. It would be said that this was good for the con sumer. But it was no great consolation to the farmer that the value of his commodities was thus to be eon verted through the consumer into three per cents. Cheese had fallen 30 per cent. in nine months. Cheshire alone produced 12,000 tons of cheese ; so that by that fall no less a sum than 240,0001. was lost to one county. In the va lue of pigs a similar reduction had taken place. Was it not high time, therefore, for the Legislature to interfere ? While all this confiscation of property was going on, the Government papers kept talking of improvement and of changes. Changes there certainly had been ; hut they were changes for the worse rather than for the better. What must be the feelings of the poor farmers who were rendered unable to fulfil their contracts ? The moneyed interest were very liberal in their advice to the landed interest to reduce their rents. " Reduce your rents," they exclaimed, " and all will be well." But it was the turn of the moneyed interest now to make sacrifices. The agricultural interest had already reduced their rents. The confiscation of property should in justice be made to effect equally all classes, In choly a Frer reason ! i have I tation of the which ken s