The Sun. — London, England, 1830-06-08 00:00:00

Were MI communications relating to tlie interrup tions of the Greek blockades ? I'he Earl of ABERDEEN was desirous of fur nishing every possible information on this subject. It was not easy to satisfy all parties. While some required additional inforniretion, others complained that too many papers had already been furnished ; and one Noble Baron in particular had actually ac cused them of emptying their trunks on the table of the House. He had already said, that the only difficulty as to producing these papers was this — that in substance, all the important points they con- tained where comprised in the Protocols drawn up at London. The Protocol of the 22d March, 1829, comprised all that was material upon the subject of the boundary. He had na the least objection to produce these papers in their more extended form; and when they were produced, the Noble Marquis would find that they did cmlnacc the discussions entered into by the Plenipotentiaries with the Greek Govetnment, upon the question of the line of boundary. Virtually they were precisely the same as those now on the table of the House, only that they entered more fully into details. The Noble Marquis was mistaken in supposing that in the papers now on the table, there was no -allusion to this subject ; for it was expressly said, that what WAS there proposed to the Porte, was in compliance with the wish of the Plenipotentiaries assembled at Poros. With regard to the blockade, the Noble Marquis would find in the papers about to be pr( - sented, the orders that had been given ; and if the statement of the execution of those orders was dt- sired, he should 11;i object to produce it. The papers would be most voluminous. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE certainly thought it most desirable that the House should be in posiession of the whole grounds on which the Porte had acted, and of the communication between it and the Greek Government, and, above all, be twe•n the Plenipotentiaries, The Earl of ABERDEEN should object to pro duce the whole of the negociations between these various parties, for they related to a variety of topics differing materially from those on which the Noble Marquis required information. They were very voluminous—they were all in French, and for the purposes of the House they must be translated. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY took that opportunity of referring to the letters which had passed between the Noble Earl, the Foreign Secre tary, and Prince Leopold. In the first punted letter of the Noble Lord be observes to his Royal High ness--" However these sentiments may accord with the political objects of persons in this country, by whom your Royal Highness may have been advised, I.think your Royal Highness cannot fail to perceive, upon reflection, how little such a course could con 'tribute to the real dignity and consistency of your thin character." Surely there must have been some previous communications between the Noble Earl and Prince Leopold, before the former could have ventured to allude to the political advisers of his Royal Highness. If there had been a little more of the sucTiier in mods in these communications there would not have been such allusions. He wished to know -whether there had been any, and what pre vious et crespondence as to the alteration of the pre existing arrangement.. The - Earl of ABERDEEN scarcely knew what answer to make to the Noble Marquis's observations. He would, however, answer the question that had been. put. There had been no previous correspon dence. If the Noble Marquis wished to go into a discussion upon the propriety of his conduct, he should be perfectly ready to meet it, provided due notice were given him of it. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not help thinking that if there had been no previous correspondence, the expression he had referred to was uncalled for, arid therefore improper. The motion of the Earl of CARLISLE, fer copies of any communications addressed by the Porte to the Plenipotentiaries, expressing a desire for the reduction of. the Boundary of the Greek State, as fixed in :March, 1829, was then agreed to. Lord HOLLAND could assure the Noble Se cretary opposite, that he laboured under a great mis take, if he supposed that he (Lcrd Holland) had blamed the Ministers for giving too much informa tion. On the contrary, he was now about to ask for more. It was true that he had used the ex- pression about emptying the trunks; but that referred to the little value of the documents placed upon the table, not to the unnecessarily large quantity of them. There were two points on which he wished for information, and on which that now furnished was, in his opinion, most imperfect. The first point related chiefly to the matter treated of in the-papers marked C, which referred to the blockade of the Dardanelles, and among the rest, to the raising of the Greek Blockades. It appeared that a letter had been written by Lord Aberdeen upon the 29th of April, 1829, expressly with reference to that sub ject. In that letter, which the Noble Lord directed to the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, he stated that the Greeks would not be allowed to exercise their blockades beyond a certain extent.— The French Charge d'Affaires had complained of this order, had remonstrated upon it, and the French Government had employed, as be believed, terms of remonstrance, if not of menace, and a discussion had ensued upon it which ended unfa vourably for this Government. An explanation took place at Paris, and after some time had been con sumed, some part of the objectionable matter had been given up. He wanted to know what had been the conduct of our Government, and what the effect of the remonstrance on the part of France. He thought the Noble Earl ought to furnish the House with information upon the subject. The other point on which he wished for information wa, of great exten', and was more important in - its nature—it related to the Isle of Candia. The in, formation furnished with respect to Candia Was most imperfect, and not only was it imperfect, but, so fin as it went, it was in contradiction —in almost direct opposition—to what had been several times stated in that House. They had heard from the other side of the House many statements relative to the con dition of the people of Candia, and to the state or that Island ; but either those statements were in correct, or the information furnished by these papers could not be depended on. The Noble Duke, who was not now in his place, had said, that if Candia was at all events to form a part of the stew Greek State, The Allies must conquer it from the Turks, who were now in full possession of it. The Noble SeCretary differed a little from this, for he acknow ledged not only that it was not in a tram - 111H state, but that it was much disturbed ; and he attributed the disturbances to the effect of the confederacy upon the Greeks. Candia, from the papers now on the table, appeared to have been for some time much disturbed ; and it further appeared, that when that Gallant Admiral, to whom justice had not yet been done, and who had displayed as much ability as a negociator as he had exhibited gallantry and spirit and naval skill as a commander—that when that Gallant Admiral had been engaged in negociations with the Pacha of Egypt, respecting the return of the Greek prisoners, the Pacha had answered, that no captives had been made by his troops since the battle of Navarin, and that of the 1,900 prisoners who had been taken before that time 1,200 were Candiots—a fact which spoke strongly in proof of the attempts made by the inhabitants of Caudle to free themselves from the Turkish yoke. Candia itself had been blockaded by the Allied and the British naval force, and these blockades had been raised. He wished to see the orders under which these blockades had been instituted, and under which they had been raised. There was one other little question on which he wished to make an observation, although, perhaps, it was but of little importance. One of the objections made by the Noble Earl to putting these papers on the table of the House was, that they must be translated. He wished to ask that Noble Earl, whether the same translator was to be employed on these, as on the former papers?_ Their Lordships must know that it had been again and again stated in that Houie, that his Russian Majesty had agreed to waive his sightti al U iniligerelli in tho Mediterranean, and hat after a short time had elapsed, subsequent to his . _ declaration to that effect, it had been carried into _ _ 'till operation. He had looked to the translation of :hat assurance made by Russia (it was to be found p. 223 of the papers marked A), and there lie Dbserved the assurance, that Russia would not ex- ercise her rights as a belligerent, put into this form, " Now, the Emperor declares, that Russia will cease immediately to be so," &c. On turning back to the original, he found the French to stand thus—" Or, l'Empereur declare, que la Russie cessera monzen tanement de l'etre." There wss a great difference between the two. To be sure it might be, and per-, haps was a mere inadvertence on the part of the translator, but these little differences in such matters were sometimes of importance. The Earl of ABERDEEN said, that in the first place he had no papers to produce respecting the raising of the Greek blockades. Every thing that had passed between the French Government and his Majesty's Government on that subject was now on the table of the House. The Noble Baron had spoken of some considerable difference between the two Governments cn that subj,et. He had been misinformed upon it. it was not true that the French Government had made a remonstrance couched in the form of a menace—they had at first misapprehended what was done—had applied for an explanation, and on that explanation being given, had expressed their entire acquiescence in the statement made by his Majesty's Government. No orders had been issued to the Admirals to ic stitute the blockades refereed to, and he could only therefore say, with reference to that part of the sub ject, that he had nothing to add in explanation of that transaction. The subject of Candia in volved a question of a much more extensive na• cure. The cond . tion of that island had varied much within the last several years, and the papers required by the Noble Baron were such that his wish could only with difficulty be com plied with, and the papers themselves were not nt cessary for the object that the Noble Baron had in view. however, what the Noble Baron had ob served as inconsistent in the statements made in the }louse, and in the papers laid on the table, was not at all the case, and the Noble Baron would himself perceive that there was no inconsistency if he car ried his observations to the point of time in which the declarations were made. At the commence ment of the Greek Revolution there was no doubt that Candia did share in the revolt, and engaged like the other States of Greece in o arfare with its Turkish Master. That was its condition as early as 1822 or 1823. Afterwards the island was pacified, and remained in the possession of the Turks till a blockade was established there in the beginning of 1828. That blockade had been established by the Admiral in the discharge of his duty in effecting a certain object. It was a part of the plan of his operations to interrupt the communication between the Morea and Egypt, and for that purpose be had instituted tile blockade of Candia. The effect of that blockade was to renew the insurrection, and to place the island in the state in which it was at this moment. The Greeks were now in possession of the open country, and the Turks held all the strong places in the island. When, therefore, his Noble Friend had said that if Candia was at all events to become part of the new Greek State we must con quer it from the Turks, he had said that which was perfectly true, for they possessed the strong places, and without conquering them the possession of the island could not be transferred to the Greeks.-- He would only add one word with respect to the mistake imputed to the translator. The word cer tainly ought to have been translated "for the time," instead of " immediately," but it was true, in fact, that his Imperial Majesty did consent immediately to lay down the character of a belligerent—the words in the Protocol were " he does lay down"— "it depose" in the present tense. The mistake, therefore, was by no means one of material conse- quence Lord HOLLAND wanted a copy of the instruc tions sent to revoke the orders under which the blockade had been established, The Esti of ABERDEEN said, most explicitly, that he had nothing further to communicate on the subject. The orders never were revoked, for no orders had been given to establish the blockade. He repeated that the French Government were sa tisfied with the explanation which his Majesty's Government had given. Lord HOLLAND wished to see the ordets issued to the Commissioners upon this subject. He wanted to know whether the blockade was raised by force or not; and if so, what were the orders under which that force was employed ? The Earl of ABERDEEN could only repeat, that no orders had been given for establishing the blockade; that it had been established by the Ad miral himself; and that it was raised when the object for which it was first established had been gained. Lord HOLLAND said that particularly with respect to the blcckade of Candia, he wished to know whether the Noble Earl had any objection to produce the orders under which the blockade was established, and those given for raising it ? The Earl of ABERDEEN answered, that the only order that was issued was for raising, not for establishing the blockade of Candia. There was, he distinctly repeated, no order given for establish ing the blockade of that place. The Admiral, in the exercise of his discretion as naval Commander on that station, did institute a temporary blockade; when the necessity for it had ceased, an order was issued to raise it. No other order had been given. Lord HOLLAND trusted that the Noble Earl would not think him guilty of " pertinacity," but what he wished to ktic.v was, whether there had not been further correspondence than that now on the table on the subject of that blockade ? The Earl of ABERDEEN tepeated that the blockade had not been instituted in consequence of any orders given to the Admiral for that particular purpose. The Admiral was ordered to assist in effecting the evacuation of the Morea by the Egyp tian forces. For that purpose he thought it neces sary to institute the blockade of Candle in order that he might interrupt the communication between the Morea and Egypt. When his object was ef fected and the Morea had been evacuated by the Egyptian troops, the necessity for the blockade ceased, and he was ordered to raise it. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE then moved, " That an humble Address be presented to his Ma jesty, praying that lie would direct that there . be laid before the House copies of all Communications received from the Ambassadors of the Allied Powers, in consequence of the instructions of the 2d of July, 1828, relating to the boundaries of Greece ; and, also, copies of all Papers relating to the blockades established by the Greeks, and to the raising of those blockades." The Earl of ABERDEEN said, he should have no objection to the production of copies of the papers referred to, with such limitations, however, as he should feel it consistent with his duty to exer cise with respect to such portions of-the papers as related to other matters. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY was sur prifed that the Noble Earl should wish to put any limitation upon the papers he intended to produce, after his promise the other night that he would give any Noble Lord these papers to " his heart's con tent." Now he thought that it was important that all these papers should be produced ; it was im portant the country should know whether we were indebted to the three Allied Powers or to Russia alone for what the Turks had conceded to the Greeks. In his opinion, from the information he had received, we were indebted to the letter, who had interfered in order to establish a State, that, at some future time, must depend on her alone for support, and must, in the course of events, afford scope for the gratification of her ambition. Under these circumstances he should move for copies of such communications from our Ambassadors at Constantinople, which bore upon the fact of the portion of indemnity given up by Russia, and. its ell - ct upon the concessions made by Turkey to the Greeks. The Earl of ABERDEEN observed that it was a little too much to say that he had promised all these papers, when he had distinctly reserved to himself the right of withholding some of them if he should think his duty called on him to do so. Some of these papers were, in fact, on subjects of an insulated nature, and consisted of various de-, tached negociations on other points. The informa tion to which the Noble Marquis had referred was perfectly right. There was a negociation between Russia and Turkey on the subject of the remission of a portion of the sum claimed by Russia as an in demnity ; and it was true that the Emperor of Rus sia had signified to the Porte that the amount of the indemnity would be increased one million of . ducats, if the assent of the Porte to certain propo sitions then made to it were not promptly given. He saw no reason to object to the conduct of the Emperor on that account—it was a proceeding highly honourable to the wisdom and generosity of his imperial Majesty. He was indeed glad that the Emperor of Russia had had such an argument in. his hands, and we ought to be rejoiced that he had employed it in such a manner, Lord HOLLAND did not think that the sub ject now referred to was one of an insulated and de-! tached nature. From the statement of the Noble' Earl himself it was evident, that Russia alone had! either by a bribe, or by extortion, obtained that for which the Noble Earl wished to take credit to the joint efforts of the three Allied Powers. It was, in fact, quite impossible even for the Noble Earl himself to look at what had been done—and espe cially to read the Treaty of Adrianople, and then to deny that Russia had, first by arms, and after-, wards by her money, done that which the three Allied Powers had not been jointly able to accom plish, but the merits of which they were very will ing to claim. The Earl of ABERDEEN answered, that the Noble Baron was much mistaken, if he thought the rreaty of Adrianople had assisted the object of the . Alliance. It had, in fact, been an obstacle in their way. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, that in fact Russia, by stocking off from her demand two or three millions of ducats, had accomplished that which France and England had in vain tried to effect. That single transaction was sufficient to show the immense power which Russia now pas ! sessed. Turkey, too, had found out that her avowed enemy would behave better to her than her pro fessed friends—France and England ; and so she gave to Russia what she refused to them. The Noble Earl ought to have granted all these papers , at once, and then he might have escaped these re , marks, but by attempting to withhold the informa tion, he had brought these observations on him self. He should not press the motion, as he hoped the other papers might furnish the information he I required. After a few words from Lord ELDON, The motion of the Marquis of Lansdowne was ' agreed to. The House afterwards proceeded with the exami i tion of the witnesses in the matter of the East Ret ford Election.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS-(LAST NIGHT.) The Select Committee on the Clyde Navigation Bill reported that the evidence given before the ori ginal Committee did not support the allegations contained in the Bill. . Mr. — Alderman WOOD gave notice, that on Thursday he should move for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the spread of canine madness. The same HoN. MEMBER presented a petition from an individual named Edward Gregory, against the punishment of death in cases of forgery.—To lie on the table. The Sheriffs of London presented at the Bar a petition from the Lord Mayor, Aldermen, and Com mon Council, against the punishment of death for offences against property.—To be printed. Mr. CALCRAFT presented a petition from the Retail Brewers of London, praying dint they might not be put upon the same footing as the Licensed Victuallers.—Laid on the table. Sir WILLIAM INGLEBY presented a petition from a place in Lincolnshire, against the duties af fecting coals.—Laid on the table. Mr. MARSHALL presented a petition from a place in Yorkshire, praying that the Assizes might be transferred to Wakefield.—Laid on the table. Mr. BELL presented a petition from Alnwick, against the Beer Bill.—Laid on the table. Mr. LENNARD presented a petition from Croy. don, against the punishment of death in cases of forgery.—To be printed. Mr. AGAR ELLIS presented a report from the Select Committee or► the library belonging to the House. Mr. ROBERT DUNDAS presented a petition from the Senatus Academicus of Edinburgh, against the stamp duty affecting the admission of Surgeons. Mr. HUME, in presenting a petition from cer tain inhabitants, householders of St. Marylebone, said, the petition complained of the number of use less dogs that were about the streets, and urged upon the consideration of the House the necessity there was that precautions should be taken to pre vent the mischiefs which those animals were likely to occasion.—To be printed. Mr. F. BUXTON presented three petitions from places in the county of Suffolk, against the punish ment of death for forgery. Also, a similar petition from a congregation of Protestant Dissenters at Hackney.—Laid on the table. The same HoN. MEMBER moved for copies of any correspondence between his Majesty's Go vernment and the Colonial Authorities - , relative to the state of gaols in the West Indies and in the British Colonies in South America ; with copies of any instructions sent to those authorities from the Colonial Office. Mr. HENRY GRATTAN moved for a return of all Irish absentees, and the amount of their property. Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought the difficulties which stood in the way of such a return being made were insurmountable. Mr. HUME did not think that absenteeism ought to be prohibited by the Legislature. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that if the Hon. Mem ber near him knew the state of Ireland fully, he would see that absenteeism was there an evil of the highest magnitude. Mr. WARBURTON differed from the Hon. Member for Clare. Mr. M. FITZGERALD wished to know from what office the Hon. Member expected those re turns ? If his object was to raise a question on the subject, he thought a better mode might be resorted to than merely a motion for papers. After a few words from Mr. TRANI', Mr. GRAT r TAN withdrew his motion. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from a place in Kilkenny, complaining of the proposed in crease of Irish taxes. In answer to a question from Mr. DonERTY, Mr. O'CONNELL stated that he had aban doned the intention of presenting any petition re lative to the Borris-o'-Katie trials. Mt. O'CONNELL said, that the Banks of Ire land Bill had been read a second time, and stood for committal, and yet the Bill had not yet been printed. Mr. DOHERTY said, that no further step should be taken with the Bill tilt it was printed. Lord MILTON presented a petition from the township of Garthwaite, in the West Riding, for the removal of the Assizes to Wakefield ; also, pe titions from Onley, in favour of negro emancipation ; also, petitions from Narsdale, for the removal of the Assizes to 'Wakefield. Lord MILTON also presented petitions in favour of Negro Emancipation, from Shipl e y, Br a dford, and several other places in Yorkshire. Mr. WILSON postponed his motion about the Jews till the 17th inst. Mr. ASTELL presented a petition from the druggists of Bridgewater, relative to the stamps on medicines. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition from certain bankers, against the punishment of forgery by death. E, DAVENPORT presented a petition from Mr. C. A. Thomson, of Chiswick, complaining of ' the loss of his properly by the fluctuations of the currency during the last twenty years, and praying for a Committee to inquire into his case. Mr. SYKES presented a petition from some soap and candle manufacturers relative to the duty on those articles. If the tax had been taken off soap and candles instead of off beer, it would have been a much more useful relief, and have been with out those objections which had been brought against • the latter. The tax of which he was complaining was most oppressive, for the duty was 100 per cent., and, therefore, the greatest temptation was held out for evasion. He also complained of the mode of ! collecting this duty, end referred to a memorial which had been sent to the Board of Trade by the soapmakers of London, to prove that the duties were collected very unequally and unfairly. [The Hon. Member proceeded to explain at considerable length in what manner the deficiency of the revenue arisin g from the reducticn of these two taxes might be made good.] We understood him to propose, for one thing, an additional tax on tallow when im ported, and to say, that as Russia levied a very con siderable export duty on this commodity, it would only be an act of self-defence in us to levy an import' duty on it.—(Hear, bear, from Mr. Hume.)—The loss to the revenue would be only 700,0001., which the Government might replace from other sources. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was very easy for any gentleman to take hold of any tax, and inquire into the restrictions which were imposed in order to ensure its collection, and then to make out a very strong case against that par ticular tax, as vexatious and oppressive. Hon. Members might in that manner go through the whole excise laws, and find every excise duty vexa tious and oppressive; nothing could be easier. BOIL Members did occasionally enter into such statements, and after they had made out their case, they each of them called on him to consent to some pet tax be- ing repealed. The Hon. Member said if he had re duced the duty on soap and candles, instead of the duty on beer, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) would not have been annoyed by all the opposition he had met with on the Beer Bill. But if the Hon. Member thought other taxes could be reduced, affecting different interests, without opposition, he was much mistaken. If he were to follow the Hon. Member's advice, and abolish the duty on candles, and impose an additional tax on soap, granting a drawback to those who used it in manu factures, he should soon find that the linen and woollen manufacturers, whose interest would be af fected by such a measure, would get up as vigorous an opposition to a Bill to carry the Hon. Member's plan into effect, as was now got up against throwing open the trade in beer. Mr. C. FERGUSSON knew that the various duties imposed by the Government had been under consideration in various counties of Scotland, and the people had all come to one resolution—namely, that there was no duty so oppressive as the excise duty on soap and candles, lie was much indebted to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the reduc tion of taxation he had already made ; but ha be- Tiered that the abolition of the tax on soap and candies would have been tenfold more advantageous to the people than the abolition of the tax on beer. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON complained of the partial manner in which the tax was levied. The manufacturers in London and Southwark, in Brent ford and trammersmith, because they were situated in what was called the home district, had to pay their duties to the Excise every week, while the manufacturers at Deptford, Bromley, and places not further off, paid their duties only at the end of six weeks. This was, in his opinion very improper; and the manner of levying these duties ought to be equalized. Mr. N. CALVERT enforced the propriety of levying a higher duty on tallow. Mr. HUME would say a few words on what fell from the Chancellor of the Exchequer. When the Right Hon. Gentleman said he could not spare the money—that be must deny—he had a surplus re venue of upwards of 2,000,0001. which he might spare to give relief to the people, and the amount of the tax on candles was only 45,0001. For this sum 2,500 manufacturers were kept under the rod of the Excise, which was so severely laid on, that three hundred persons had given up business within a year. Last year 2,800 persons had taken out licenses to manufacture soap and candles, and this year there was only 2,500. It was impossible for the manufacturers to carry on their business under such odious and vexatious regulations. As to the loss sustained by the revenue, that might be com pensated by an additional duty on tallow. At present Russia levied a duty of 2s. Gd. the cwt. on tallow exported, and we have a duty of 3s. Gd. on the import, making together a duty of 6,;. on the cwt. Augmenting the import duty must give a greater revenue without costing so mach to collect it. The duty now received by the Exchequer on candles did not amount to above id. per lb., but that imposed, in fact, a tax on the people of 3d. or 4d. for every pound of candles they used. The Right Hon. Gentleman proposed that the motion should be brought forward next year; but at tint time he might not be in his present place, nor might he (Mr. Hume) be in his. God knew where they might be next year ! He knew that the Right Hon. Gentleman would be happy to remain, but what changes might happen before that time could not be known. He would not, therefore, postpone the motion till next year; he would bring it forward this Session. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said he could not spare the money. Let hint but bring in the Bill to raise the duty on Russian tallow, from 6s. to 7s. or Bs. per cwt., by which lie might raise 500,0001., he would find no difficulty in passing such a Bill; and he might immediately abolish the Excise Duty on Candles. But he would go further also, and reduce the Duty on Soap. On it there was a direct tax of threepence per pound. There was also a tax on Tallow, a tax on Barilla, a tax on Rosin, which made the tax on Soap direct and in direct fourpence per pound, which every man had to pay before he could use a single pound of soap. There was another inducement to lower the tax which he would mention. lie was anxious to see the duties equalized in England, Ireland, and Scot land.—(Hear, hear.)—The taxes ought to be the same in every part of the empire, but he would never raise an Irish tax to the level of an English one. He would lower the English high tax to a level with the Irish low tux. If the Irish Members, who were in general very bad voters—(A laugh)— would only attend, they might, perhaps, get such a thing accomplished. The Scotch Members were bad voters, but the Irish were worse; though, owing to a rebellion of the latter, he had once the misfor tune to be in a majority.—(A laugh.) A Bill was brought in, relating to Scotland, and the Opposition carried its point, because, on that night there hap pened to be a rebellion amongst the gentlemen for Ireland. They were one hundred, and if they would only attend and vote, no doubt, a question for equalising the duties in all parts of the Empire might be carried. But the inducement he was about to speak of was directed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. He found that the exports of Soap in Ireland, in 1827, amounted to 239,0001b5.; in 1828, to 859,0001b5.; and in 1829, to 2,645,0001b5. Why, if the Irish used all their soap, they must be the cleanest people under the sun.—(A laugh.)— Every individual who came over here from that country would be as clean as a new pin. —(A laugh.) The fact, unfortunately, was that the soap was not used by the Irish, it was exported in such large quantities only to be smuggled back into England. It was sold in Cork for 2ial. per lb. He encouraged his Hon. Friend to bring in his Bill even this Session, and if it were supported as he had suggested, he had no doubt that the Chancellor of the Exchequer would come into their terms. Mr. ROBINSON said that the Right Hon. Gen tlemen had no reason to complain of not having the means to reduce these taxes, when there were masses of property in the country, and numberless enjoyments possessed by the rich for which no tax whatever was paid. The petition was then brought up, read, and or dered to be printed. It was from the manufacturers of tallow, candles, and soap, in Aberdeen, praying for the repeal of the Excise Duties on these articles. Mr. SYKES then presented two other petitions on the same subject, and expressed his regret that he could not bring forward the subject this Session by a Bill, but he must decline it, and if he were not there next Session, he trusted some Member snore able would take up the subject. The petitions, which were from Mr. Taylor, soap-manufacturer, Leith, and from certain soap-manufacturers at Glas gow, with the same prayer as the former petition, were then read and ordered to be printed. Mr. M. FITZGERALD presented a petition from the Freeholders and other inhabitants of Kerry, against the Stamp Duties. Mr. S. RICE took that opportunity of inquiring when the subject would come under discussion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER could not fix the time, though he was as anxious as any person that the discussion should come on, but the time of the House was so occupied with other subjects that he had not found time. Perhaps he might on Friday say when it would be brought forward. STAMP OFFICE. Mr. Alderman THOMSON presented a petition from a gentleman named Reilly, complaining of the abuses in the Stamp Office, and praying a Committee to inquire into his charges against those to whom the management of the affairs of that office is en trusted. _ It was ordered to be laid on the table, and printed. Sir M. W. RIDLEY presented a petition from a Mr. Traker, a shipowner and builder, of New castle on-Tyne, praying the House to repeal the duty on oak timber, that being, as he alleged, one of the best methods to give relief to the distress of the shipping interest. The Hon. Member concluded by observing, that he thought the question well worth consideration. Mr. SYKES said a few words to the same effect, and the petition was ordered to be printed. Lord JOHN RUSSELL presented a petition from the inhabitants of Leighton Buzzard, against the punishment of forgery by death. Mr. HUME, in presenting a petition from the candlemakers of Dundee against the duties on tal low, gave notice of his intention to present a petition to-morrow from St. Luke's, against the proceedings of the Church Commissioners, and to move thereon for a Committee of Inquiry into their conduct. Lord MORPETH, in presenting a petition from the Convention of Burghs at Edinburgh, in favour of the Edinburgh and London Road Bill, gave notice of his intention not to press the ensuing stages of the Bill on Wednesday next, as he had been disappointed in the delivery of the printed Bill with the Amendments, at the time he anticipated. lie intended, however, to give due notice at the time when it would be again brought before the House. Mr. STEWART (of Beverley), adverting to the discussion respecting Ceylon, on a former evening, begged to ask the Right Hon. Secretary (Sir G. Murray) if an order had been sent out by Lord Bathurst, directing the annulling of the regulation, which allowed the Governor to supersede a Writ of Habeas Corpus, why was it that Sir E. Barnes had disobeyed that order ? Sir G. MURRAY said that Lord Bathurst had sent out the the order, but it proved deficient in some technicalities, and Sir Edward Barnes sent it home with an amended form, for the approbation of the Government. He was confluent, however, that after an express order had been sent ow, disapprov ing of the practice which existed before, no Gover nor would presume again to adopt the same course. Mr. STEWART then asked if it was the in tention of the Government to lay on the table of the House the charges brought against General Darling, the Governor of New South Wales ? Sir G. MURRAY said, it was not the intention of the Government to lay the charges before the House, until General Darling had an opportunity of putting in his answer. Sir J. GRAHAM, while they were on the sub ject of the Colonies, begged to ask if he had rightly understood the Right Hon. Gentleman the other night, when he declared that after the Government Commission now sitting to inquire into the state of the Colonies had made their report, it was intended to present a regular financial statement every year, for the Colonies exclusively ? Sir G. MURRAY said it was undoubtedly the decided intention of the Government to adopt the course mentioned by the Hon. Baronet. SUPPLY-SOUTH AMERICAN MISSIONS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then, alluding to the understanding that public bu siness was to commence as soon as possible after half-past six, moved the Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee of Supply. The House then resolved into the Committee, Sir ALEXANDER GRANT in the chair. On the first resolution, granting a sum of 28,0001. to defray the expence of special missions to the New States of South America, Sir JAMES GRAHAM expressed his surprise that, although this estimate was even larger than the last, no explanation of the items had been at tempted by his Majesty's Government. He should at once proceed to put the House in possession of the items of which he complained, and the first he found on the list was the special mission sent-out in 1825. In that year Mr. Morier was despatched on a special mission to Mexico. He remained five months altogether at his post, and he received 3,6561., with a sum of 1,6701. for the expellees of his journey home, making altogether 5,3261. for five months' service. In the next year Mr. - Morier was sent out again. He was three months at his post, and he received 1,5061. going out, 755/. for travelling expences corning home, and 3001. for his passage in a King's ship, waking altogether a sum of just 8,9871. for eight months' service in Mexico. The House would probably suppose that a sum so large was all that was required for the proper representa tion of England in the new State of Mexico, but it would be not a little surprised to find, that at the time these missions were sent out there was a Resident Consul in Mexico—Mr. Ward—who received for his services the following sums :—ln 1826, he received. 10,9131.; in 1827 he received 2,5331., and 8281. for outfit and pas sage-money ; so that, in the space of twenty-five months, the English Mission to Mexico cost 19,8811. Having thus disposed of the first and of the second Commissions, it might be supposed the expense was at an end; but then there came a third "person—a Secretary to the Commission— whose charge was more extraordinary still. This gentleman was at his post five months, for which he received 5001., or 1001. a month; but then came the extra-extraordinary portion of the charge.-- Thompson held the situation of one of the Clerks of the Ordnance Board, and there was a charge for compensation to the amount of 3804 for loss of salary in the Ordnance Office—(Hear, hear) —for the loss of salary for the performance of duties he could not perform, because he was receiving 100/. a month to perform duties elsewhere. This gentle man, too, not content with the salary for service in Mexico, had taken an excursion into Guatimala, for which he charged 6001.; and altogether the ex penses of the Missions to Mexico were about 21,857/. He would next call the attention of the Committee to the appointment of Mr. Cockburn on the mission to Colombia. On his appointment in 1825, he received 3,3251. for his outfit, and, in 1826, a salary of 6,3001., making altogether 9,6001., although he never went to Bogota, but passed three months at the Ceram's, and three weeks of it ut the house of the English Consul.— Mr. Cockburn crossed the Atlantic twice at • the public expense. in 1827 (having returned to England) he received 3,778/. ; and when he went • out again, therefore, it was to be supposed that it was for the purpose of actively discharging his duties. — He never went to Bogota, however, and returned to England the bearer of his own despatches ; for which, as lie (Sir James Graham) understood, the Foreign Office did not think him justifiable. In the - first year of his mission Dir. Cockburn had - A, been employed three weekg; in the second year nine weeks ; lind for those services he re ceived 13,0001. It might now be expected that Mr. Cockburn arid the public were at least quits. While Lord Dudley and Ward continued at the head of Foreign Affairs, that was the case; but when` ildt' Noble Lord went out of office, by some myskriorts influence which he J. Graham) did not -undet'. stand, a sum of one thousand six hundred and sixty four pounds was granted ;n 1828 " to complete Mr. Cockburn's allowance."—( A laugh.)—Thus Mr. Cockburn obtained in the whole a sum of 15,9751. for twelve or thirteen weeks' residence at his post; or rather for not residing there at all ; after which he fell back on a pension of 1,600/. a-year.—(Hear, hear.)—lt was but justice to a very unassuming in dividual, Colonel Ciunpbell, who had performed five years' faithful service, and had always been at his post, to state that he had been superseded for the purpose of making room for other persons. After what had occurred, it might have been supposed that his Majesty's Government would shut the door against any further expellee on this score. Not so. They started afresh with Mr. Chad. Mr. Chad was appointed to proceed to Bogota in 1828; and re-• ceived 1,666/. for his outfit ; and a delay taking place i❑ his departure,• he received 1,3341. more, making 3,0101. in 1828. In 1829 Mr. Chad received 2,062/. All this time he was residing in London. So that he received 5,1001. of the public money and never went at all. The third gentleman appointed was Mr. Tor tier. Mr. Turner, in 1829, received 2,500/. for his outfit; a third of his salary, amounting to 2,500/-, the rent of a house in Colombia, although livit►g in this country, and 5281. for his passage; making al'o get her 4,955/. for Mr. Turner in 1829. All this, be it observed, took place under the controul of Lord Aberdeen and the other members of a Government which affec ed to plume itself on economy. There was another item which it would be unfair to omit. It related to an individual who was an old friend of his, and whom he allowed it was a meritorious act on the part of Government to employ—he meant Mr. Henry Fox. And yet the manner in which that gentleman's appointment was managed rendered it a complete job. When that gentleman was ap p&nted, in 1828, to go out to Buenos Ayres, he was at Naples, and received 1,5001. for an outfit. At this present moment he was in Italy, and not only had he received his salary in 1829, but had received an advance of 1,0001. For Lord Strangford's Special Mission to the Brazils, there was a charge of 6,7861. The object of that Mission remained unexplained. As far as could be judged from appearances, it was of a nature hostile to the liberties of Portugal. tie would conclude, by moving a reduction of the pro posed vote, and the following were the spec►fic grounds of that reduction : Surplus of the Estimate over that of last year £579 Lord Strangford's Special Mission 4,050 Mr. Chad's Outfit in 1829 2 062 Mr. Turner's Outfit 2,500 £9,191 This was the sum which he should move to deduct, from the proposed vote. He had stated the,facts of this extravagant expenditure ; but he was bottnd also to say, that if his Majesty's Governmenoqr,to House fancied that the condition of the labouring classes in this country had so improved of late tf l at it became no longer necessary to think of economy, they were in a most grievous error. It was true that the milder weather of the present season and some improvements in particular branches of manu facture, had somewhat lessened the distress of the people. But still, the rate of wages was such, and the prices of the artic!es of 'life were so enhanced by heavy taxation, by the operation of the Corn Laws, and by other circumstances, some of which were, perhaps, inevitable, that the labouring classes were suffering the most grinding distress. Let the House recollect the circumstances of national difficulty and distress under which, they had met, and the recom mendations to economy in the Speech from the Throne. Yet they had passed the Army Estimates arid the Navy Estimates, as proposed by Ministers, without the reduction of a single shilling; notwitle standing the numerous items whigh Kis Hon. Friend near him had pointed out as capable of being ad" vantageously reduced. Not a reduction had bees' made, with one solitary exception, and that as paltry as the spirit which had rendered it necessary-1w meant the reduction of the pensions that had been granted to the two sons of Cabinet Ministers. The lion. Baronet concluded amidst loud cries of " Hear, 'ear," with moving to reduce the proposed grant to 18,8091. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER would remind the House, that if there had been-no reduction by the House of the estimates proposed by his Majesty's Government, that might, in some degree at least, be attributed to the fact that the es timates prepared by Government had fallen short of those of the preceding year by 1,100,0001.—a cir cumstance which had been hailed by several of the Han. Gentlemen opposite as beyond their expeeta: tion. It was not fair to east a slur on Government for not hein. , economical, when they had thus in controvertibly proved their disposition to be so. Ile came now to the immediate question. Had there been shown any disposition to a reduction in this particular estimate or not ? What were the facts ? That in 1826 the expenditure for diplomatic ser vices was 459,5001.; and that in 1829 it was onlY 366,0001.; being within 7,0001. of a reduction of 100,0001. Surely this was some indication o f the attention which Government had paid to the sub ject. But did he say that Government were eon" tent with the reduction already made? Far from it. But our Ministers were dispersed in various parts of the world, and reduction must be preceded by previous communication. They had shown their disposition, and that disposition was still in active operation. By the arrangements which Lord Aber' deen was making, he entertained great expectations that the expence of the diplomatic services of South America would be brought within the sum charged on the Civil List for the European Missions. Se much for the . general estimate. He uould noW proceed to particular points. The Hon.' Baronet had begun with stating the expenditure of 182 5 on the different missions to South America. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) admitted that they were large. No one could deny it who saw.the.account e en the table. But when first the South American States were called into existence, it was impossible • accurately to estimate the expellee of living in those countries. It was thought by Mr. -.Canning, when Mr. -Ward was sent to Mexico, that as it was kind of experimental mission, some latitude - should be given to the individual engaged in it, by which Ministers might be subsequently enabled to asc,r tain the proper amount. • The next point to which the Hon. Baronet had alluded, was the appointment of Mr. Cockburn to a mission to Colombia. It was undoubtedly true, that during the three years of his appointment Mr. Cockburn had resided.in England for eight months. In justice, however, to Mr: Cockburn, he must state the circumstances which occasioned his absence from the country to which he bad been deputed. Mr. Cockburn, having been appointed in the beginning of 1825, received-for his outfit the usual sum of half his year's salary. , fie proceeded to South America, and arrived at the , Caraccas. It was true that he did not go to togole the capital. But he was sure the Hon. Barons must know the grounds on which his absence we e to be accounted for. Not long after his arrival he attempted to proceed thither, but-was prevented by a fever, which reduced him to such imbecility that he was carried on board ship in a state of complet e insensibility, and it was thought by those who wer e I personally interested in him that it was not possible he could long survive. He was conveyed to Jamaies and thence to England. When he presented him' self to Mr. Canning, such was his altered appear'. ante, that Mr. Canning not only approved Of - his r turn, but prolonged his leave of absence. On h' e return to South America, when he arrived at O a Caraccas, he found Bolivar there.- Being accredite to the country of which Bolivar was•the Preaitle e , " it' was certainly not very unjustifiable on his part to wait 'at' the Caraccas with him rather than t ° , I proceed up 'the country, .and• wait for' bins ow flogota. ceeded had, w most irn portaiit ; the pub them to request his own lay the; itisters. Mr. Co tiott for whethe deprive Course his arri beer► tl subject the cast pointmi the flig denied expene, He full to the when 1 be-adni Was TIC prompt moinun !louse, most o tremel: exceed vice Mt Frier agree that Maje mora wol by I sun he 1 the had on( he to pai not wh - tha vet eh( the the up anioun Tice resume served year. in the Sir burn ii Hence, him w which plored acid a to Mr Was e! The fi object Col find volunt Sir Rtaten defenc 'Tian. jourti4 and ti w hi* . mine some con, Dal, suc: Col rho to I OD thl tol