The Sun. — London, England, 1830-12-21 00:00:00

else; but ha remembered, that after a re-consideration of o,o On:circumstances he had not thought the case so strong a one as in the first instance it appe,ired to him to be. This, ,however, was certain, that Chief Baron O'Grady bad beets acquitted by the House of Commons.: Under those .oisournstances to have stopped the current of those rewards and honours to which he was entitled by his long services, would have been nothing less than gross perse- Mien. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR was one of those who, on the oc casion alluded to, had voted for Par lament's sending the • Chief Baron to trial in some other place. The minority Wu small, but among them were the present Lord Lynd hurst, and others whose opinions were entitled to respect. But because that was his opinion ten years ago s should he heinstifsed, after Parliament had determined against it, in maintaining that the Learned Person in question should not have the rewards and honours to which his long public services entitled him? Further than that he had never thought the case a strong one ; and if he had been *friend of the Chief Baron's, he would at the time have advised bins to demand an inquiry into his conduct. The proposition was, however, overruled by the House. He (Mr,Taylor) had bad some connexion with Ireland, and bohad never known the Chief Baron's integrity as a J ud ge impeached, except in the instance which had been ad• retied t 0.,. _ Lord 3IORPETII would touch upon only one or two 0 :tho multifarious points comprehended in the attack of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He had not the honour , to know the ,Chief Baron ; but the cause of that Learned Person had Already been satisfactorily advocated by ; bis Most natural end competent defender.—( Hear, hear.)- From ell that he had beard of that Learned Per la*, he concurred in every thing that hail been said in hie praise. , The Right lion. Gentleman seemed to con- tider that the appointment of Lord Plunkett to the office of lord Chancellor of Ireland would be equally obnoxious .Catholics and to the Protestants of Ireland.— 'Why ?, No one bad espoused the cause of Catholic eman cipation trona eloquently, more zealously, more fervidly, than Lord Plunkett;. and yet, in the fullest flow of his 'efforts no one had more sedulously excepted and guided the intereats of the Protestant establishment, than Lerd Plunkett. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad expressed his tooted dislike of all political Judges. It was undoubtedly tree that Lord Plunkett was a political character; but it should be recollected that he was a Judge already. He was a Judge in a Court of Common Law. Now it was much more convenient that a political character should preside over a Court of Equity than over a Court of Common Law; for in Ireland political considerations had 01 114 greater influence in a Court of Common Law than in a Court of Equity. What was the substance of the Right Hon. Gentleman's complaint? That the most eminent man in the Court of Equity in Ireland had been hlaced at the h e ad of that Court. Ile Pius surprsied to ear the late Member for Londonderry utter expressions so strong, and which were equally applicable to almost Piety Chancellor in Ireland who had preceded Sir Anthony gam Sir JOHN NEWPORT begged to say a few words. Re was exceedingly surprised to hear the Right Hon• gentleman opposite say that the Protestants in Ireland would look with jealousy on the appointtnent of Lord Phiekett as Lord Chancellor. Did he forget that a most 041 i/tent member of the Protestant Church of Ireland had 'Retried his daughter; and that two of his sons were in the Church? As to the Noble Lord's being a Dissenter, did the Right Hon. Gentleman forget that Archbishop Seeker, and several other dignitaries of the Church of England, had originally been Dissenters ? With respect to the removal of the Under-Secretary of State in Ireland, such a removal was es•ential to the efficient transaction of the public service. Ile (Sir J. Newport) had had some experience on that point, and he well knew that no !4illieter could adequately discharge his duty with unwilling instruments. _ _ Sir R. PEEL, in what he was about to say, would avoid any reference to party. Indeed he would not have 'Picea at all, had there not been a kind of personal appeal to. him. In the first place, with reference to the dismissal of Mr. Gregory, he must beg to bear his strong testimony to that gentleman's merits; and he was bound to say, tEttkreliatever might be Mr. Gregory's political opinions, he (Sir Robert Peel) was perfectly convinced that that Patleman would not withhold that cordial assistance Which it was his duty to render to those who were at the bad of his department, whatever might be their political "",titict. Mr. Gregory, however, like other meritorious public servants, had been the victim of the calumnious rrISS of Ireland. ~It was well known that whatever might ": the knout-of soy man's conduct in that country, he catnetionoxons to the severest censure from the Press. ~, "'Minions what they might, be could not escape. He tiered,that all the attacks which had been made upon Gregory ware unfounded. He believed that that tintleman,was focapahli of being swayed in his public clay by: his political feelings. A man of greater integrity 44 honour in private life lie (Sir R. Peel) had never met With. lie was bound, however, to admit the soundness f the statement of the Honourable Member fur Water 'Rd, that those who were responsible for the conduct of 1 44 Government should be entitled to choose their own 111 4i/ries. No doubt, after thirty years' service, Mr. Pratory was entitled to retire. The real as well as the ,Itilth of his services entitled him to gratefu l considera r. Land . he (Sir R. Peel) hoped that no pledge w hich Majesty's Government had given of retrenchment /°° 4l d prevent:them from taking a just and liberal v iew of r. finery's claims. With respect to Chief Baron n i9rady, when the subject of that lear ned p erson's con was some yeara ago before the House, he (Sir Robert 4-ee l ) was in a position which enabled him to examine ths circumstances of the case ; and with all due jealousy tic the purity of the judicial character, lie could not 41 ,.rihttbs to him any undue motives. Ile begged to of f er K 0 0 • Gentleman words of warning and exhortation to t he Ri g ht 1 7‘ 1 . Gentleman opposite. The late Government ha d ben denounced as a Government indifferent to the wants ' 4l d feelings of the people, arid indisposed to that rigid 'Thorny which the necessities of the times required. He *quid now ask the Right Hon. Gentleman whether, short their experience had been of Administration, they did hot find the difficulty of carrying on the Government IYeater than they had expected ? Ile by no means blamed t hem for the means which they had been compelled to "Nit all that he wished to infer was, that their prede • Alsors ought not to be too hastily censured. He willingly 1 , 40 0 ed that Lord Plunkett was perfectly qualified for the %Nation of Lord Chancellor of Ireland ; but by the cir. eu rnst ances of his appointment the present Ministers had 71,jected the country to an expence which hie Majesty's Ministers had avoided. If the conduct of the late ‘ ',!ltniniatr a ti on w i t h respect to t h e o ffi ce o f L o rd Chan- Zi lltir of I re l an d were recollecte d, i t wou ld b e ev ident that )4 5t the', Were MA so regardless of considerations of economy as it had been imputed to them they were. h b „, A nthooy Hart was appointed Lord Chancellor of Ire by Mr. Canning . When the Duke of Wellington tho into power, however, lie did not remove Sir An 14_1_1111AM fur the purpose of appointing some individual I ..vourable to hie political opinions. Even after the i:!aohe question had been carried, the Duke of Welling -I,l'_'_lequieeeod in the continuance of Sir Anthony Zo irt in the office of Lord Chancellor, and thereby spared ric the expense of his retiring allowance. The . cit t Hon. Baronet opposite said that the o ffi ce of Lord e t ellor of Ireland was necessarily a political office— :rill_ I . was in England, and that it was so in Ireland. Al i:tut he would not lay down a general rule on the sub : fli t Puld not agree with the Right Hon. Baronet that ter. oetr'iht Thu Lord of Ireland must he a political charac ter. __Lord Chancellor of Ireland was placed in a si different from that of the Lord Chancellor of Eng " lie was not the political adviser of the Crown. Ile h.d_o_uebatedjy, performed some political acts ; chiefly the re 9°dation of Magistrates; but he was not the poli. t'ilc,et ,I.rl a viser of th e L or d Li eutenant. The trut h was , t h a t the Lord Chancellor of Ireland interfered with po r4 the better. He heel stated on a former occasion that o ,er e ople must not be too vehement in their errsexpectaione retrenchment which any Government, howev ia. 3 7: 41 . could effect. The time was come when the rela c,'!'ors of public servants on The nifht B that point would be judged. at present , when he had less experience on i t. ge subject tha n Duke of present, spoke of the indisposition of .roe th e , Wa llington to retrench to the extent necessary s of ) fral 77c goo d. Now he (Sir R. Peel) would honestly had enn assert, that no member of any Administration th e bl y ,e ur of w rr ! sincerely desirous of true economy than ellington; and that few members of any tllltdr_rnin.istration had ever enjoyed equal advantages for th_ ur en'S the execution of his wishes. Ile allowed that P'cserit Administration. had reduced the offices of 2 4-Tr e „ urcr of Ireland, of Lieutenant-General of the ti.:"Tfnee, and of Treasurer of the Navy. But did they I ti be that would be consid ere d sufficient ? Would be very easy for any body to outbid them for popu- Wibuld it nnt be very easy for any man, with Male extravag ant the Right views Ilan. Baronet what was taepracticable than e People , drontt and his friends, to say 4IPIPer term:- will carry on the public service on the N eh of I abolish the office of Chancellor of p s ./ a , !' anc tist" ; will alinlialt the office of Lord :A mu ' . 1 will abolish th 4 ' '-,: Would (si of fi ce of I ay master of the thy sor b ileclarat;,,,s) R. Peel) join in countenancing lbe it ow o rr, cur t . aittly not : because he knew " t into e ff ect. Did they not a‘ 180084a' of the Government for the ' conduct of the public business was not sufficient; and al. though they might wish to secure to every man through out the country the full reward of his labours, did they not feel it was but a delusion to hold out to the country at large the expectation of any extensive reduction in the ex pences of the Government, at least that any such extensive reduction was inconsistent with the means of properly conducting the public business, considered not with refer ence to the individual concerned, but with reference to the discharge of public affairs ? He said with them, let every office that was not absolutely necessary be cut dawn let them dispense with all those places with which they could dispense ; but he hoped that not any attempt to catch the shadow of a fleeting popularity would induce the Government to waste their proper strength. The question after all, became one as to the merits of the late Govern ment, and must be decided when they could properly see whether the condemnation pronounced against that Govern ment on the ground that they had not sufficiently dimi• nished the public expenditure was well founded.—(Sir J. Groliam nodded assent.) lithe Right Hon. Baronet could, as by that applauding motion of his head he seemed to inti mate, show that much greater reductions than those made by the late Government were practicable, no man would be more delighted than he ( Sirß. Peel) at such a circumstance. It would certainly prove that the late Government might have done more; but on the advantages which would be obtained by the country he should heartily rejoice, though he must at the same time share in the condemnation of not having before conferred them. He only cautioned his Right Hon. Friends in the most friendly spirit not to pledge themselves too hastily to a sweeping retrenchment, before they had examined all the details of the offices with which they were connected—not to promise that reduction of salaries which they might afterwards find would weaken the public services, and not to encourage the public too much in expecting that diminution of officers which might afterwards be found inconsistent with the safety of the country. The present Government had pledged them selves to Reform, to eeonatny, and to the maintenance of peace. With respect to Reform, that was not the time to say anything about it. The measure was one of too much importance to be introduced incidentally into discussions of that kind. He would, however, say that he trusted that that declaration of his Majesty's Prime Minister, that no measure of Reform, not consistent with the maintenance of existing institutions, should be introduced, would be strictly adhered to. With respect to retrenchment, that must be the profession of all Governments—it was so of the present —it had been so of the last; and though Members in op. position might find fault with the continuance of this or that office, it was his firm belief that not five years would elapse without the conviction arising in the public mind, that these professions had been fulfilled by the Doke of Wellington's Government. With respect to the maintenance of peace, lie was sorry to hear the present Government state it, as a distinguishing mark of their policy, that they were determined, at all hazards, to maintain peace. Of course every Government must wish to preserve peace. The late Government had always stated that to he their wish, and theie was no Government but what did so; they declared that they would leave no effort untried, consistent with the honour of the country, to preserve peace. No man felt more than he did the necessityof avoiding the re kindling of the flames of war—no man was more deeply con vinced that this country was interested in making peace ; but peace was not always a question ; it was not always to be obtained or continued at the wish of the Govern ment, and he doubted the policy of too strong and de termined a declaration that at any hazard the Government of this country would preserve peace.—(Hear.)—He knew that the explanation of this was, that they would do all they could to maintain peace, but that explanation brought the matter back to what was sail by every Go• vernment. All he complained of was, that when the Go vernment of the Duke of Wellington, which was essen tially pacific, had confined its declarations to the limit of maintaining peace to the utmost extent, consistently with the honour of this country, the present Government should have put it forward too prominently, as one of their prin ciples of Government, that they would maintain the peace at all hazards. Ile concurred with them, that every effort consistent with the honour of the country, should he made for the preservation of peace; but let not their ex ' pres.ions of their determination, at all events, to preserve it, be too strong ; for the interests of this country, or cir cumstances which, at this moment, it was impossible to forsee, might compel them to change their determination ; and those circumstances might possibly be created by too strong a manifestation of their wish to preserve peace. He called on them to show, as the late Government had done, that in the event of there being a necessity for re sorting to arms, they would at once take up arms. He called on them not only to show this, but their confidence, that in the event of such a necessity, they could repose with confidence on the belief, that the ancient spirit of the coun try would rally round the Government, and maintain by its courage that which their judgment had declared to be inevi table.—(Hear.)—The Right Hon. Baronet had com plained of the course pursued by his (Sir Robert Peel's) Right Honourable Friend, as of a course intended to ob struct the proCeedings of the Government. He' denied that such conduct could be imputed to his Right Hon. Friend. The Right Hon. Baronet supposed that that course of conduct proceeded from pique at the loss of office. For himself, he (Sir R. Peel) assured the Howie, that so far as place was concerned, if he never returned to it he should not consider it a misfortune ; and that if he should ever return into office, so far as his personal feel ings alone were concerned, he should feel it little less than a misfortune. Having said so much with respect to the points on which he could not concur with the present Go vernment, lie was happy to be able to express his full con currence with them in one matter of great importance; be was pleased, much pleased, with the declaration they bad made, that they would support, at all hazards, the Legis lative Union of England and Ireland.—(Cheers.) —He suggested to the Right Hon. Baronet, and to the other ad visers of the Government, whether, if those who agitated this question, but were determined not to bring it for ward, since they avoided discussion, for the purpose of continuing agitation—be suggested, he said, to the present Ministers, whether it would not be better to place on re cord the opinion of that House—(Hear, hear)—to move a resolution declaratory of the opinion of the Legislature ? —(Hear, hear. )_Those who thought that the Union ought to be dissolved, ought to submit the question, not to popular agitation in Ireland, but to the deliberation and sanction of those branches of the Legislature who were, and ought to be, the sole tribunals for deciding it.—(llear, hear.)—He hoped that the young Members of that House, the gentlemen who, as Catholic Members, now, for the first time, sat amongst them, would show that, whatever distinctions might have once existed, whatever matters might have once divided them, the most heartfelt cordiality united them to one end on that important subject.— (Cheers.) —He would gladly sacrifice the office and power he had once enjoyed, if the present Ministry, more than the last, could secure the declaration of Parliament that England end Ireland should share their fortunes in peace; and if war was unavoidable, that they should fight united together, and by their union attain that triumphant suc cess which they could not hope to enjoy if they were di vided.—(Hear, bear.)—He hoped, too, that out of doors the people would not be misled by the declaration of af fected patriots. He hoped that before the inhabitants of Dublin could be induced to follow the example of Belgium and Paris, they would well consider whether they had the same justifiable cause of opposition to the Government ; and even when they had settled that point, he trusted that they would well consider what was the present condi• tion of those countries in which these revolutions had taken place with the state in which they were before the revolutions had taken place. In saying chat it IVils not necessary to call in question the justice of the resistance these people had made ; it was not necessary for him (and, indeed; no circumstance could induce him to do it) to pal liate the conduct of the Governments ; but although the resistance was justifiable, he had a right to inquire whe ther revolution was not a great evil ; and when he looked to the condition of France and of Paris, and particularly to the condition of the working classes, he could not help thinking he was justified in believing that resistance might be justifiable, but that it involved those who engaged in it in almost irremediable ruin. He called on the House to compare the state of the public funds in France with their state before the Revolution. The resistance was right ; it had been successful; the most popular men were in office, yet how was it that property was deemed inse cure ; that employment was almost at an end; that indus• try was paralysed ; that strangers were withdrawing from the country, and that the condition of the lower classes was infinitely worse than it was before the Revolution? If it was so, as he believed it was, then he asserted it to be true, that great changes in any Government could not i s o p g o ndency, property and in i t vl i t e h o p: l e t c ot e na ss t • e i r tl i t a o l u ly t a r n " d it i i n n j g uri a o l u a s r ly n i a n 'i fl u tten d c e the country in which the Revolution took place.. lie called on the Ilouse--he called on all people of property, ' ' to be fully aware of the mistake they would be commit ting, in dividing this count r y and Ireland, I to be aware of inte from such s measure. All people of propert d y f s o v i er a e . the irreparable evils that must result to both rested in this question, and on them he ee I n calm,vha considerate, and full attention to this subject. fair economy, but it was impossible to read I be had said be bad not any intention to s topth t e le co l u ) i l l th e l o io f Press of this country, and to see the ir appeals ile to the economyl):- gone of the peo ple, without knowing , t hat while was put forward as their avowed object, their covert design I wao to degrade and lower all the constituted authorities of the country, and to secure for themselves that power and authority which would he denied them under all other circumstances. To gain that end they were willing to create tumult and confusion, and to subject this country to the worst and most degrading tyrannies—the tyranny of an ungovernable mob. Mr. HUMS thought the discussion now introduced had been most unnecessarily commenced, and he entered his protest against the mode adopted by the Right Hon. Gentleman to prejudice the minds of the Government and of that House against the adoption of measures of Re form and Retrenchment. Sir R. PEEL said he had not the slightest intention to create any prejudice against Reform or Retrenchment, both of which be should be happy to see effected, pro vided they did not interfere with existing institutions. Mr. HUME maintained that such - had been the ten dency of the Right Hon. Baronet's observations. The Right Hon. Baronet had read a lecture to the lower classes, and to those who called for retrenchment and eco nomy; but had he read a similar lecture to the higher classes, who had brought this country to its present state? No such thing. Had not the Government which pre. ceded the present positively and distinctly refused all Re form, which the people had called for year after year? The Right Hon. Baronet spoke of preserving existing in stitutions. The people did not wish to set aside those in stitutions, they only wanted to reform the abuses that had crept into them. He hoped that his Majesty's present Ministers would not listen to the advice given them on that side of the House.—(Cheers, and laughter.)-oh, he knew what those cheers meant—he was sitting on that side, but then be was an exception—(Hear)—he was not properly a part of that side of the House—(Hear). — that side of the House was now in possession of those %via, had recently sat on the other. He was not one of their body—he was, as he had before said, an exception to the rest.--(Hear, hear.)—Perhaps he might differ but little from the Right Hen. Gentleman as to the salaries to be paid to the efficient servants of the publie, but there were others about whom some doubts might well be en tertained. Wien he looked around him he saw numerous offices that might be reduced wholly, or in part, without any injury to the effective service of the country. He hoped that the present Government would adhere to the promises they had given of retrenchment, and not risk the advantages of the country by deserting their promises. He should be glad to know what the Right llou.Baronet meant when he spoke as if there could be no reduction of offices, without injury to the public service, and when he talked of preserving existing institutions? Were there not pen sions and sinecures increasing the Dead Weight, and rotten boroughs whose occupants were put into useless places by the Government ? After the explanation given by the lion. and Learned Member for Weymouth, on the subject of the abuses in the Court of Chancery, Le feared he could not point out one thoroughly good institution, and there fore he was afraid of Reform.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) The people, however, did not want to destroy existing in stitutions, they only asked to have some controul over the taxes to which they contributed. It was only Reform that would enable honest men to act as Ministers, and to Conduct the affairs of the public in that House. The Right Hon. Gentleman had talked of his personal feelings, as opposed to his being in office. Those feelings, no doubt, arose from the difficulties he had to contend with while in office. Those difficulties would be at an end in a re formed Parliament; and under such a Parliament, he should be glad to see the Right Hon. Gent. in office. The Right Hon. Gent. said, that he did not like the distinct pledge of peace given by the present Government. If there was any one thing better than another in the conduct of a Government, it was the making a distinct pledge that they would not interfere with the affairs of other nations— (Hear, hear.) It was that interference which had added six hundred millions to our debt ; rind it was the successful issue of that interference on which the late Lord Liverpool congratulated the other House of Parliament, though he, and those in office with him, bad frequently before de clared that their own defence, and not the re-establish ment of the Bourbon family, were the objects of the war. He repeated that he was rejoiced at the pledge of non-in terference given by this Government, and he conscien tiously believed that if the Duke of Weliington had con tinued in power this country would have been at this mo ment, if not in actual war, at least on the verge of hostili ties.—(Hear.) He was, therefore, glad that the late Mi nistry were no longer in office, and that the present Mi deters had pledged themselves to the maintenance of peace. With respect to what the Right lien. Gentleman had stated regarding revolutions, he must say that if the party who held the Government broke the conditions on which they held it, the people bad a right to put an end to the Government ; and that had been the case in France. Al though, therefore, the Right lion. Gentleman had con demned the French, lie could not but admit that the Go vernment had no right to issue the ordinances, and there fore he must admit that the people were right in resisting them. lie wished the Poles as much success as had at tended the French ; but he declared, at the sam e ti me , th a t it was no part of ie duty of Government to interfere. Sir R. PEEL had not condemned the French—he had said that they had no alternative but resistance, and had only observed, that lawful as was the resistance, it was still unfortunately true that the revolution thus occasioned, though successful, had been productive of much misery. Mr. LEADER said that when he considered the cir cumstances, foreign and domestic, under which the Noble Earl now at the head of the Government had been called upon to take office, lie could not but think the selection of such a man the best that could have been made. In the se lection of Lord Plunkett as Chancellor of Ireland the Noble Earl had shown a sound judgment, and had also manifested the excellence of his choice in the appointment of the late Attorney-General. He thought also that the Government were quite right in conferring, as they had done, a distin guished honour on the late Chief Baron, whose conduct had certainly been the subject of accusation at a former period, but who had come out of that accusation to the satisfaction of that House. , He should make no observa tion with respect to the appointment of the late Soli citor-General, except that it could not be objected to by the late Government, since they had been the first to re cognise and assert his merits.—(Hear, hear.) With re spect to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, be had de veloped the resources of Ireland, and it was much to be regretted that the same course hail not been followed to the same extent by his successors. Ireland was languishing under absenteeism, and groaning under taxation, but he hoped that the measures of the present Government would take from the Anti-Unionists the only ground upon which they could stand. Ile had been forced into the House against his inclination, but being there, he thought him self bound in justice to state his opinions fearlessly. Mr. SLANEY believed there were but few who listened to the bad advisers of the Press to whom the Right Hon. Baronet had referred, so that the poison, unless it spread widely, could do little harm to the community at large. He was persuaded that discontent would subside and finally Reform. declaration T h The o d f i disappear. It M i i t n l i i s a ty d r b , present Government was pledged to a Reform , not only e t e h n a t e x there eited should l)ythe bepositive speedy but effectual, and the people would wait patiently for the redeeming of that pledge, in the confidence that they should not be disappointed. Even if the lower orders should not be satisfied, the middle classes would loyally rally round the banner of a Constitutional Monarch. Much had been said on the subject of distresses; and from some experience in the Southern Counties, he was con vinced that the distresses at least there were by no means irremediable. If gentlemen would but return to thei r estates, and make those exertions which the situation of the peasantry demanded—if they would come forward to give employment to the poor during the severity of the winter, a considerable and a beneficial change would be soon visible. Mr. G. DAWSON explained, that he did not intend to be guilty of any want of courtesy towards the Right Hon. Gentleman, especially in not communicating the nature of the statement he had to make: the fact was, that it was called for on the sudden, by the unfair removal of Mr. Gregory. He, however, begged to apologise to the Hon. Baronet for the use of the word " bribe," which had escaped front him, while he only meant it in the sense of inducement. In what he had said he had not intended to express the slightest personal The Consolidated Fluid Bill was then read a third time and passed. ADJOURNMENT AND BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Sir ROBERT PEEL moved the printing of certain Parish Returns, which ought to be in the hands of Members during the approaching recess. Sir J. GRAHAM would take this opportunity, in the absence of . the Noble Lord (Althorp), of stating the in tended arrangement of public business. It was to be pro posed that the House, at its rising this night, should ad journ till te-morrow ; to•morrow it would be moved that it should adjourn at its rising until Thursday ; on Thurs day it was intended to move that the House should adjourn for the recess until the Bth of February. On the 15th of Fe bruary the House would commence with the Election Pe titions, in the order in which they stood in the book ; three ballots would take place on each of two days in the week, viz. three on every Tuesday, and three more on every Thursday, 'until the House arrived at a series of pe titions, all of which were presented in one day : the priority of those would be best decided by putting them into ens urn. There was one exception...the petition from Wigan—the sitting Member for that Borough hav ing relinquished his seat : the representation was, there fore, so far incomplete, and in order to remedy the defect it was intended to take that petition into consideration first on the 15th February. He mentioned this as the proposed arrangement, without wishing it to be under stood that some variation might not be made by circum stances.' The principle was, that all the ballots should be completed before Easter. Sir li. PEEL was quite aware of the circumstances in which Ministers were placed, and of their natural desire to have an interval of time to make certain preparations ; hut he could not help s tying that he thought the proposed adjournment too long, looking at the very little business that bad been already transacted. He had no wish to embarrass Government, and he admitted their claim to an opportunity of considering and digesting their measures; but it would he better to have the recess a little shorter. Sir J. GRAHAM, in the absence of his colleagues, did not intend to enter into discussion upon the subject ; he only meant to give notice that on Thursday the adjourn ment would be moved. The Right lion. Baronet bad disclaimed all intention to embarrass Government, and be could not but be aware that time for deliberation was abso lutely necessary. He hoped, therefore, that the adjourn tnent required by his Majesty's servants, to the sth of February, would not be opposed. So far from its being the cause of delay, he thought that this lengthened recess would be actually the means of expediting puldic business, as it would give Ministers leisure to prep ire and adjust measures adapted to the cireurmstinces of the country. COURT OF CHANCERY. The House then proceeded to resume the adjourned debate upon Sir Edward Sugden's motion for returns relating to the Court of Chancery. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR complained that the late Soli citor-General had taken a vast deal too much credit to himself for his proposed Reforms of the court of Chan cery. His zeal and activity on the subject had corn menced only after the Right Hon. Gentleman's removal from office; while he and the late Lord Chancellor kept * their situations they made many speeches but effected no reform% He (Mr. M. A. Taylor) had brought forward the subject as long since as the year 1810, but he had always been opposed from party motives, and Lord Eldon had once threatened to resign the Seals if the motion were carried. After alluding to the Chancery Commission, out of which he had been purposely left, the Hon. Member complained that in 1826 Lord Lyndhurst, as Attorney- General, had promised a Bill to reform the Court of Chancery, and after a speeds of two or three hours had never introduced his measure. In 1827 the Bill was brought forward, but it was found not to embrace half the reforms promised in the speech ; and in 1828, as in 1827, nothing was done. In 1829 Lord Lyndhurst obtained leave to bring a Bill into the House of Lords, hut it was introduced too late in the session, and it was abandoned. All experience showed that nothing in the way of Reform could be accomplished unless the Lord Chancellor or a Committee of the House interfered to en force them ; after twenty years spent in idle debate, no thing had yet been accomplished for the benefit of the un fortunate suitors. The Hon. Member for Weymouth hail said a great deal in favour of enactinents to accomplish his projected reforms, but he did not seem to be aware that the Lurd Chancellor was himself competent to make nine tenths of the necessary changes without the aid of legisla tion. With regard to the arrear of business, it was a fact which ought to be stated to the credit of the Master of the Rolls, that at the present moment he had not a single cause before him ; while the Vice-Chancellor, from no fault, but arising out of circumstances over which he had no controul, was suffering under the pressure of two hundred causes. The Master of the Rolls had expressed his readiness to divide them with the Vice-Chancellor until the art ear was overcome, if the Bar would consent to such an arrange ment. The lion. Member contended that the Six Clerks' Office ought to be at once and entirely abolished, and that business in bankruptcy ought to be severed from the Great Seal : if it were not severed, this enor mous source of taxation upon the parties ought to be re formed. He farther urged that many of the patent places connected with bankruptcy in the Court of Chancery ought to be abolished. He was a decided enemy to the political character of the Lord Chancellor; his avocations as a politician interfered with the discharge of his duties as a Judge, and occasioned that arrear which was the most crying evil. What lie (Mr. Taylor) wished was, that the Lord Chancellor should be only a Judge of Appeal, sitting in the House of Lords, and that others should be appointed to decide the business in his Court. He did nut mean to blame Lord Lyndhurst mora than Lord Eldon. He certainly thought that Lord Lyndhurst ought to have remedied the abuses which had been left untouched by Lord Eldon. For the twenty years .during which the latter had been at the head of that Court, nut one useful alteration did he effect. But when these Judges bad been unwilling to promote' Reflirm, it was the duty of the Executive Government to compel them to remove the grievances, or to substitute in the place of those Noble Lords, a Chancellor, who would not persist in supporting abuse. He (Mr. M. A. Taylor) bad received an immense number of letters, complaining of the management of bu siness in that Court ; amongst others, one containing sixteen sides of paper closely written, from a lady, near Bungay, in Norfolk.—(Laughter.) If Parliament would look to the hardships endured by numerous families, starving and writhing under the inflictions of the Court of Chancery, they would be convinced of the necessity of its reformation, and they would confer the greatest benefit upon the country. But hitherto, notwithstanding all the elocution that had been employed upon the subject, there had not yet been one iota of practical Reform. Looking to the former career of the present Lord Chancellor, he had every hope that that Noble and Learned Person would either of himself introduce measures of effectual Reform, or, if he found himself unable to do so, he would at once come down to Parliament for the necessary assistance. But with regard to patent places, if some Member of the Government should not take the matter in hand, he (Mr. M. A.Taylor) would himself bring the subject for mally before the House. Whoever might be the Lord Chancellor, he (Mr. Taylor) would never give up that question until he should see it carried. He concluded by repeating his confidence in the present Lord Chancellor, I and that the day was not far distant when the people of this country would be able to look upon diet Court ,o; a protection and a blessing, instead of a curse. Mr. J. WILLIAMS thought that there was no likeli hood of specific benefit from continuing the conversation, as there was no specific measure in view. Ile would ob. serve, however, that a diminution of the jurisdiction of the Court of Chancery would be most effectual, and ought to be the tirst step towards Reform. The Bill of inter pleader, and other recent measures, had had an excellent effect. It was very evident to him, however, that no re form of the Court of Chancery could come from mere speeches ; it was only by slow end painful steps that that could be accomplished. He, nevertheless, thought be saw the light coming; and that the change would be effected by the introduction of successive Bills, by which the in terference of the Court of Chancery would be diminished, and the application of the other Courts which were more open, should be brought to bear on what was conceived to be the jurisdiction of the Court of Equity. Mention had been made of the Noble and Learned Lord at the head of the Court of Chancery. He (Mr. Williams) would be the laot man to deny that every public. Minister was not the subject of public discussion and public observation. If, therefore, his Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir E. Sug. den), speaking manfully and fairly, as it was the undoubt ed privilege of every Member of Parliament, had commented on the fitness of that Noble and Learned Lord, there would have been no ground for complaint. IBut if it was intended by his lieu. and Learned Friend to doubt the capacity of that Noble and Learned Lord for the situation which he now filled, he (Mr. Williams), who had sat side by side with that Noble and Learned Lord for many years, would take leave to say, that those who had seen him only in that House were unacquainted with his Herculean powers of labour and stupendous in dustry, which extendorover a space of which few had any idea ; and he (Mr. Williams) bad no doubt that if that Noble and Learned Lord was allowed to remain in his present position for only a reasonable time, either he would die under hie ex er ti ons , or h e wou ld m a k e hi mse lf a mos t accomplished Magistrate to preside in that Court, and he rendered, by means of his capacity and variety of talents, an ornament of that position in which lie was placed. Mention had also been mule of the Chancellor of the Ex chequer; and he would, therefore take that opportunity at saying, that it had caused the greatest disappointment in the profession to learn that there was no likelihood of another Noble and Learned Lord being raised to the bead of that Court ; and well was he persuaded that nu attempt to force business into that Court could have proved a hundred] part so effective as raising that Noble and Learned Lord to the bench. He (Mr. Williams) had practised under that Noble and Learned Lord, and he had no hesitation in saying, that such an elevation would be attended with upopularity, an d that that popu l a rity would be ac. cl rh panied with a great accession of business, to that Court. In conclusion be could not help saying, that his lion. and Learned Friend (Sir E. Sugden) had its some degree dia. appointed him, in having discussed so many topics, with out producing any measure applicable to the case .of abuses that he had made out. hir. SPENCE had been much surprised at the speech of the 'lion. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down, as its character was so very diticrent from what his I speech on the same subject last year had been.—(Hear.) But the great question was, could they reform the Court of Chancery ? Ile thought that they could. It was with great pleasure that be had heard the speech of his non. and Learned Friend (Sir E. Sugden); and he was sorry that it had not been followed by some Bill or ether mea sure, in which case he was stne that the whole Houle would have been with him, and there would no longer have been cause to complain that their discussions ended in speeches, or, as the Hon. Member for Middlesei had said, in splashes. In his opinion it was the House of Com mons alone that could reform the Court of Chancery. With respect to complaints against the system, they were as old as the Court itself; but the mistake had been that the Legislature had left the remedy to the Government, and the consequence was that the evils bad acCumulated till they had become intolerable. What had been the effect of Lord Hardwicke's orders? Why, that they had been violated in several most important particulars, such as j the copies of reports and expedition money ; so that it was quite evident that remedies coming from such quarters were futile. Let who would be Chancellor, the tact was that these abuses must always escape him in the multi plicity of his business. In 1813, too, the Commission had particularly noticed expedition money and gratuities, and yet they existed to this very moment. The amount of sinecures and plurality of places wax also abominable ' and extensive, and required pruning with an unsparing hand. He now came to the Registrar's Office. In the year 1797 the income of the Senior Registrar was 1,131/.. while the whole amount of lees was 4,84.7/. 9s. But at the present time the Senior Registrar actually received 1,9614 ; and the sum total was no less than 21,6011. ; and yet, in 1792, the Registrars were in full employ, and satisfied with their emoluments ; the way in which this was done was by stuffing the decrees (with the exception of the decree of dismissal) full of recitals. But, perhaps, it would be asked, were not these recitals of use ? Of use! They were perfectly useless; for if their Coun sel wished to cite any of them, he would be told— and told properly too—that he must produce the ori ginal Bill. The next was the Masters' Office. The sums received by the Masters in 1797 Was 13,6641. ; bat, at the present time, the principal clerks of the Mac ters actually received more for their own share, for they received no less than 13,852/, while the junior clerks had the additkin of 5,143/. ; and the Masters themselves no less a sum than 89,0001. He would now go on to the Report Office. In that office the clerk had a mere sine cure place, for all the real effective business was done by the clerk of the desk. In 1797, the sum received was 1,069/., which, at the present time, had increased to 4,589/. With respect to the Masters' office, he might observe, that the principal increase there had taken place from the number of copies ; since, then, they had thus ascertained what was the cause of the evil, it became much more easy to apply a remedy ; and he must confess, that, on this point, he differed from his Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir E. Sugden), as be thought that the best way would be fur the solicitors, on either side, mu tually to hand over copies. The solicitors were now remunerated by fees on warrants, and these warrants were taken to give them an adequate salary. He contended that these fees, though they had long been received, were • exacted without any right. The Masters' salaries he would fix at 2,000/. a year, which he deemed sufficient for the office. They would then be competent work ing men, nut men appointed for political influence; and, fixing the Masters' salaries at that suns, he would abolish their fees He would next state his opinion on a very important subject—he meant the Jurisdiction Bankruptcy—and his opinion was, that the Lord Chan cellor ought to receive a salary instead of fees. Till that was settled, he was sure the projected reforms of the law. could never be effectually carried into excution. He thought the Chancellor himself must wish not to be the only Judge in the law who is paid from exceptionable fees. Other Judges had their fees commuted, and were paid salaries; and this ought to be the case for the Lord Chancellor. If that were done there might be a reform of the bankruptcy jurisdiction ; and if that were not done such a reform could never be seen. In 1797 the fees re ceived by the Secretary of Bankruptcy amounted to 1,1001.: 500/. went to the clerks, and 600/. to himself. Then none of those fees went to the Chancellor. Now the fees were 10,000/., and 4,0001. of these went to the Chan cellor. He would pass over the other parts. The broker's share in 1828 was 1,848 1. ; he was sure a broker might be found for 1,0001. a year and so much would be saved. The Hon. Member showed how other savings might be made in reducing the Amountant-General's salary. The Six Clerks' Office, he thought, ought to be utterly abolished. It was an irremediable mass of evils. lie approved highly of the appointment of Mr. Visa** and he thought no man so good to be about a Chancellor who had to reform the law as that gentleman. The clerks in this office gave no gums rantee for correct copies of the orders, and when these officers of the Court were complained of for mistakes, the Court would give no remedy. " The Hon. Member next complained of the evil of solicitors not knowing the prac tice of the Courts like the attorneys of a Common Law Court. Even the Judges themselves did not know the practice of the Court of Chancery; and instead of pre scribing it, they, like the solicitors, had to learn the practice from the clerks and officers of the Courts. The Judges, when they made orders, never recited the orders made by their predecessors—so that nobody knew, or could know, the practice. It was differently determined by different clerks ; he knew a case of a man turned round only within a few days on a point of practice, and obliged to pay more costs than the sum in dispute. Writers on the subject could not tell what the practice was. This was a vital evil which required a vital re medy ; which he considered could only be done by abolish ing the Six Clerks, who were the depositories of this practice, and by this Judges making a body of rules for the practice of the Courts. He had known 1201. paid on each side for taxing bills of costs, which was done by these Clerks. This power, thee, ought to be taken out of the hands of the Clerks of the Court who had this busi ness to perform, and who had an interest in multiplying fees. The Clerks in Court ought to be abolished ; the six Clerks were of no use; each one of the six Clerks was only two months at the office in the year, when he did nothing; and for these two months of idleness each Clerk received 1,200/. a year. lie would pay ell officers about the Courts who were beneficial to the suitors, and all who were not beneficial to the suitors he would at once got rid of. The lion. Member then proposed that the records should be kept on parchment, like books, which would be better than the present system of keeping them. Now, by the different papers being kept at different offices, recitals were necessary, which occasioned end less expense. By this plan the different records would follow each other consecutively on different pages, and would always he easily found and referred to. He was not surprised at the expencti of a Chancery suit, when he knew the immense number of copies that were made of all these papers. Sometimes the same sent.trice might be found copied more than twenty times, each copy of which had to be paid for. By this plan also he should get rid of the Enrolment Office ; for at present, after a party had gained a decree, it was of no use to him, unless he entered it at the Enrolment Office, where it was buried for ever. He had the intention to move a series of resole. tions, corresponding to these opinions ; but he would not embarrass his Majesty's Ministers. He bad seen, however, too tunny promises broken to place implicit confidence in any men, and lie would from time to time bring the sub ject before the House, till he had made, what he thought the Court of Chancery might be made, a substantially useful Court to suitors. In conclusion, the Hon. Member declared that he wished that the Courts of Common Law might be kept free from the ruler of the Equity Courts; and he hoped to see both Made so perfect that no man should have his cause referred by a Judge to be decided by an arbitrator. Sir E. B. SUGDEN then suggested the propriety of adjourning the discussion. Mr. R. GRANT said, that to let an unresisted motion go on to a third night, would indeed be an extraordinary proceeding. Mr. CAMPBELL protested against the doctrine that it was a calamity to have the Great Seal intrusted to a com mon lawyer. De would contend ' that en acquaintance with the Common Ltw formed the beet foundation for the acquirements of an Equity Judge. lie said that sup ported by one of the highest authorities that could be pro duced upon such a subject—that authority was no lass than Lord Eldon. That Noble Lord said most truly, that the most eminent Chancellors were common lawyers —were men who began their professional career at Quar ter Sessions, and went Circuit. Lord Eldon himself went the Northern Circuit, and led there Sir Samuel ltomilly, who practised at Seesions for sixteen or seven teen years, and went Circuit; and he felt perfectly as sured that that was a better education for an Equity Lawyer than driving a quill in the office of an Equity Draftsman. Sir C. WI THERELL then robe to aims thu Houle. Mr. 11. HUGHES proposed an adjournment.. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON was about to second the amendment, but immediately changed his intention, and required that the House he counted. Strangers were ordered to withdraw, and the House ad.. journed at a Quarter peat Twelve o'clock. BER.NADOTTE, King of Sweden, is reported have said, " I have so warlike an appearance, that vviien look in the glass I am afraid of myself." SPECIAL COMMISSION. WINCHESTER, Dm.. 20, AT Noox. The appearance of this city thin owning presented a scene of unusual activity and bustle. A considerable number of persons, many of them witnesses, and many the friends of the prisoners, came into town at an early hour. Those of the latter class were to be seen in the vicinity of the gaol, anxious to catch a glimpse of their friends as they should come out on their way td Court. The number of Magistrates and other gentlemen of the county in attend ance here is also very considerable. There are uptivanis of SOO prisoners for trial; a vast proportion of that number committed fur very serious of fences. The following abstract of the calendar will pre sent a correct notion of the nature of the charges, sad of the character of the late riots in this conety. The pri soners are here classed according to the nature of the of fenres charged, and not according to the commitments as they stand in the calendar and robbery, 66 ; rob bery, with which riot it not charged, 49. It is to be observed that though many of the commit ments were made out for robbery only, there are few, if any cases, in which that crime was not accompauied by riot. In six of the cases the parties stand " further charged with other felonies and misdetneanours." For riotously assembling and destroying the machinery of fan. tories, iron works, buildings, &c., 61 ; riotously assem bling and destroying thrashing and hay-making machines, ; riotously assembling, to the terror of the King's sub jects, and in breach of the peace, 62. Of these 62 cases, there are two for compelling clergymen to sign papers to reduce tithes; two for compelling farmers to sign agree ments to pay a certain rate of wages to their labourer.; two for compelling parties to join riotous assemblies; one for resisting a magistrate in the execution of his duty ; two or three for riot and assault; one for riot and rescue; one for refusing to disperse when the Riot Act was reed ; and one for refusing to find sureties to keep the peace ; five with menacing, and by force demanding money, provi sions, drink, &a. ; three for resisting the dispersion of an illegal assembly ; for sending a letter, threatening to burn a house, one; for sending a letter, threatening to kill, one; for destroying the poor-house of the united parkhes of l3ramshot, Headley, and Kingsley, nine. (There were upwards of 1000 persons in the uanb which destroyed this building.) For destroying the workhouse of the poor of Selborne parish, eight. (There were upwards 300 as sembled on this occasion.) It will seem strange that, notwithstanding all we had heard of fires in this county, there is not one commitment for arson. Of the parties in custody, some are charged with a great number of offences, and appear to have been most active in every kind of outrage : for obvious reasons, we do not give the names of those parties. With one or two excep tions, nearly all of the prisoners are persons who resided in this county or the adjoining. One men only who was a stranger took an active part in the riots. The whole of the offences are charged on some one day between the 19th and 26th of November (both in clusive.) The course that may be adopted with respect to the trials will depend a good deal on the result of the first twu or three cases submitted to the juries. These will be the most serious cases. The whole three Judges will continue to sit together to-day, but it is probable that to-morrow, (kr the day after, they will find it necessary to try in the second Court before one of the Judges, leaving the two others in the Court they are now in. In order to expe dite business, they talk of sitting on Christiniukday after church time, and even with this it is not expected that the business of the commission will,„ be finished here by Monday next. The Court was not opened till ten o'clock this morning to the public, but as early as nine o'clock the Magistrates were admitted through the court-keeper's house into the different seats reserved for their use by the }Egli Sheriff. The reports for the different journals were admitted at the same early hour, and found that every attention bad been paid to their convenience by Messrs. Hopkins and Dunn, the under•sheriffs of the county. . . . At ten o'clock the Commissioners entered the Court, accompanied by the High Sheriff (G. P. Jervoise, Eaq.); Mr. 13aron Vaughan presided ; Mr. Justice James Parke sat on his right, and Mr. Justice Alderson on his left. The other Commissioners (Mr. Sturges Bourne and Mr. It &lard Pollen) were also present, The Duke of Wel lington (the Lord Lieutenant of: the county) entered 'hardy after them. It is almost unnecessary to add, that the Court, as soon as opened, was crowded to repletion. The attendance of Magistrates was , unusually numerous. Mr. Baron VAUGUAN then proceeded to address the Grand Jury iu the following charge:— " Gentlemen of the Grand Jury,—.We are assembled by virtue of an extraordinary commission, which his Majesty hat been advised to issue, for the purpose of ex ercising the criminal judicature of the country at a season of the year not usually devoted to such solemnities. It is hardly necessary to speculate ,on tbe causes from whence that spirit of tumult has arisen which has recently dia turbed ea many parts of this kingdom. It is said to have originate,l from the severe diagram of the lower orders. To a certain extent no doubt it may be so, and every man poi muted of the feelings common to our nature must deeply lament it, and endeavour to alleviate it (as you, gentlemen, no doubt have done, and will continue to do) by every means which Providence has placed within his power. Yet it is to be feared, that there are person, who, for the basest purposes, have greatly exaggerated the pressure and extent of the evil, and instead of attempting to mitigate it, hare used it as a means of tarrying their own wicked designs into effect. One of the means employed in order to captivate the labourer, and to engage him in tumult and crime, has been to persuade him that the use of ma chinery occasions a decrease of the demand for personal labour, and a corresponding decrease of wages, and conse quently that it must of necessity operate injuriously on the lower orders of the people. But this is, as it seems to me, taking a very limited and erroneotte view of the subject. Thrashing-machines facilitate the operation of extracting the corn from the ear, and perform it more effectually than manual labour, whereby the produce is increased, the expense of preparing and bringing it to market reduced, and, consequently, the price of this minutial article of life, is some degree at least diminished. Besides, the same are gument which justifies or recommends thedestruction of the thrashing-inechine would also apply to the abandonment of the use of the flail, the spade, the hoe, the axe, or any other, even the rudest instrument, by which agricultural labour was abridged or rendered more effeetive; and if this right were 'tweeted to the agricultural labourer, what rem on cm be assigned for denying the minim of a similar right to those who are employed in the fabrication of cloth, I nett, cotton, or any other article wrought in the various manufactures of the kingdom ; and if all were to act upon these supposed rights, and machinery to be pro hibited altogether, can any one doubt what fatal conse quences must result to all the agricultural, commercial, and manufuturing chases of this greet kingdom? I for bear to enter into a question which it is not within our province as tre'nisters of the law to dismiss. The office of the Judge is to dealer., expound, and execute the law. It my be sufficient, therefore, to observe, that it is the undoubted right of every subject of the kingdom to employ his capital and to conduct his busittems, whether engaged in agriculture, commerce, or manu facture*, in such mariner as he may think most condu. cive to his own interest, unless where the wisdom o/' Parliament has controlled hies by Ityislative restrictions. He has the unquestionable privilege of availing him self of his own discoveries, or, by agreement or purchase, of the discovery of others ; and no reason an be assigned why thrashing-machines rhead not be pro. tected by law, sa much as any other species of property. It now becomes my duty to offer to you endse observations upon the present state of the erimieal Isere with reference to the various bills of indictment which are likely to he laid before you. The capital felonies will probably be reduced to four several heads:--Ist. Such as arise out of the Statutes passed for the prevention and suppression of riotous and tumultuous assemblies ; 2d. The crime of arson ; Belly. Robbery from the person ; dthly. Robbery or stealing in dwelling-houses. To which may be added other felonies, not capital, vitt. The seeding of threatening letters; ilk. The destruction of or damaging with intent to destroy or render useless thrashing-machines, or any machine or engine prepared for or employed in any manufacture. With regard to the law, es it regards riotous and tumultuous assemblies, many persona have fallen into the error of supposing, that because the law allows one hour fur the dispersion of a mote to whom the Riot Act had been read by the Magistrate, that during that period the civil power and the magistracy are dis armed, and the King's subjects, whose duty it is at all times to suppress riots, are to remain quiet and passive. The language of the Act does not warrant any such coutitruction, nor could such have been the intention of the Legislature. The civil authorities are left in possession of all the powers with which the law had previously invested them ; and if, titter the proclamation read, and before the expiration of the hour, attempts were made to perpetrate any felawiutis outrage, it would be the duty of every person to endeavour to stop the mischief and to apprehend the offender. I proceed next to the crime of arson. The law upon this subject is clesrly defined by the 7th and tith of (co. IV. c. Sfis which incorporatea the provisions of former statutes rief lacing to this subject, and consolidates them into two simple ena c t men t s conta i ne d i n the 9tl and 17th -14 "," 4 The td aCctivr. entlatittitts it cartel Ain tudikwit„llHl