The Sun. — London, England, 1830-06-19 00:00:00

that he felt desirous 'urther delay, become a administration of jus dom—(Hear, hear) — the more readily, al tar all that was indis le was aware of the d's views, and of those d of their readiness at and candidly to con d communications of 1 parts of this truly cotland—(Hear, hear) — _,earned Lord would, during earliament go into a considera- Important parts orthe subject not in -...uett (and that could not be included) in his Bill, but to which his notice had been already drawn by documents, in the shape of public remonstrance, from different counties in Scotland, and to which he doubted not his attention would be more earnestly directed by a more general and decided expression of public opinion before the next Session of Parlia ment.—(Hear, hear.)—He could not, he was per suaded, more briefly or clearly touch upon those points to which he , more particularly alluded, and upon which all the communications lie had received bore more or less, than by reading to the House a few of the short but excellent resolutions of the county of Ross, and of the Merchants' House of Glas gow, and which, in fact, and in substance, were the resolutions of all Scotland.—(Hear )—The Hon. Member here read some resolutions to the effect, that the forms and language in the proceedings in all law Courts should be abridged and simplified. That cheapness and despatch, combined with practice, would be secured by curtailing the vast accumula tion.of written pleadings, and viva voce pleadings introduced as far as possible in their stead.—(Hear.) That the oppressive fee fund should be done away. That the charges of legal practitioners are a source of great, expense and complaint, and ought to be remedied. That conveyancing should be divested of its absurd technicalities. That instruments of sasein, an expensive and absurd form, should be abolished. That heritable and personal bonds should be transferable by simple indorsation. That the powers of arbitration and the inventory duties should be revised, as well as all law charges.—( Hear, Lear.)—He trusted and expected that the Learned Lord would, early in the next Session of Par liament, appoint a Parliamentary Committee (or the regulation of law charges, and especially of the charges in conveyancing, so loudly and justly com plained of by the people of Scotland; and which it now appeared from a return lately made to the House, were exacted without any competent or settled authority whatever.—( Hear, hear.)—He would only now further say, that as a preliminary measure, lie was satisfied the Learned Lord's Bill would be productive of great practical good; and although he might, in the Committee, make some observations upon parts of it with the view to what he presumed to think amendments, he would, with this general understanding and imperfect explana tion, give the Bill his decided support.—(Hear.) Sir GEORGE WARRENDER complained that time bad not been given to consider the effect of all the clauses of the Bill, and recommended the Right Hon. Gentleman (Sir R. Peel) most strongly to allow it to stand over until next Session. They had now reached the 18th of June. Many of,those interested in the question had left town, and he really thought it would be better to postpone the discussion on a subject of so much importance at that late period of their sittings. When be saw a proposition of this kind brought forward for the in-. crease of the number of the Judges, and for general alterations in the Courts, he could not help having some suspicion that there was an intention to in crease the public expenses. He had asked the Right Hon. Baronet a question on that subject on a former occasion, but he had not yet received a satisfactory answer. Sir R. PEEL recollected very well the question of the Hon. Baronet, and had- some recollection of having replied to that question in the affirmative. At all events he had no hesitation in saying now, that it was intended to increase the salaries of the Scotch Judges, and he believed the impression of the Government that such an increase had become necessary, was shared by a great portion of those acquainted with the subject. He begged the Hon. Baronet to understand, however, that although the salaries of the Judges were to be increased, this Bill was not a consequence of that, nor was that increase the foundation of this, so that the Hon. Baronet would very safely consent to support the Bill with out pledging himself to the question of the increase of salary when it came to be proposed. Mr. MAXWELL (of Renfrew) supported the pill, although be thought some of the clauses might' be altered with advantage. Mr. HUME could not allow the opportunity to p a ss by, without bearing his testimony to the quiet patient, and highly-creditable manner in which the Lord Advocate, under many difficulties, had worked his way in promoting the objects of this Bill, and in bringing it to maturity. He perceived, however, that it reduced two of the Barons of the Scotch Exchequer. Now, the Secretary of State (Mr. Peel) must have known that these two Judges were to be reduced, at the time lie appointed a Learned Gentleman (Mr. Abercrombie) to the vacant office of Lord Chief Baron ; and he really thought the country had reason to complain of a waste of the publie money, in thus giving away 40001. a year, itt a time he must have known such changes were in contemplation. Mr, BROUGHAM agreed in all that had been said of the praise due to the Lord Advocate, and thought that the Government also deserved great credit for the honest and disinterested manner in which it had consented to abandon a very consider able patronage for the sake of an improvement in the administration of the laws. The LORD ADVOCATE, in reply, should feel obliged to any gentleman of Scotland who would favour him with suggestions en the subject of the improvements 1w contemplated, and that if they (would send him in their suggestions in writing, he would either adopt them, or state in writing the reasons which influenced him in rejecting them. The House then resolved itself into the Commit tee on the Bill, in which the various clauses were discussed, seriatim, by Mr. Fergusson, the Lord Advocate, Mr. Home Drummond, the Solicitor- General, Mr. Hume, Sir Robert Peel, end Mr. Brougham; and several verbal amendments were introduced into them. The clause having been agreed to for abolishing the Admiralty Court, Sir JAMES GRAHAM dwelt on the injury which would be sustained by the Procurators who had practised in that Court ; and proposed a clause by which they should be allowed to practise in the Court of Session, the Ecclesiastical Court, the Sheriff's Court, &c. The LORD ADVOCATE had proposed a clause to allow the Procurators of the Court of Admiralty to practise in the Court of Session 2nd other higher Courts, but he could not consent to allow them to pract se in the Sheriff's Court and in the inferior Courts, because, by their competition, they would injure those who already practised in those Courts. Mr. H UME and Mr. BROUGHAM supported' the clause as proposed by Sir James Graham. Sir GEORGE CLERK, Mr. HOME DRUMMOND, and the SOLICITOR -GENERAL, apposed it. Eventually Sir JAMES GRAHAM would not press his clause, but would acquiesce in the pro posal of the Lord Advocate. On the Clause respecting the Court of Session being put, Mr. BItOUGHANI—Y o u s ugges t th a t a t l ea st one English barrister should be appointed to sit in that Court, as an as sessor , to ass i st t h e ot h er J udges in coming to a decision respecting points of law, Nv hieli were of daily occurrence in Westminster Ilan. Care should be taken that he was not a man tot much wedded to his own opinions; while he, at s the same time, possessed the necessa9 , exp!. Stance and knowledge to enable him to diteet his brethren in all matters relating to trial by Jury. He also thought it would be desirable to abolish altogether written pleadings in the Sheriff's Courts, urd to have all issues of facts tried by Jury. And this, lie contended, wou!d be no innovation on the Scotch law; trial by Jury was recognised as the original form of judicial proceeding in the Scottish Courts, in cases civil as well as criminal. Now, as to the changes contemplated in the Scottish Courts, his idea was to abolish the office of Lords Ordinary, and all the practice of the outer Cham ber, and to have twelve Judges divided amongst three Courts—four to each ; and that these Courts should be severally competent to try all cases in the first instance. Thus would they have all the ad vantages, and none of the disadvantages, attending the distribution of the Judges in Westminster Hall. He was likewise anxious to interpose an interme diate Court of Review between the House of Lords and the Courts below. These alterations would, he confidently expected, put an end to the great mass of appeal business. _ _ The LORD ADVOCATE remarked that there would be great difficulty in inducing any English Barrister possessing the necessary qualifications, to accept of a seat upon the Scottish Bench. He con sidered that the plan of his Hon. and Learned Friend was in many other respects exceptionable. The clause was agreed to. Mr. FERGUSSoN proposed that the clause restricting the powers of the Commissary Court should he omitted. The LORD ADVOCATE defended the clause. After a short conversation, in which Mr. BROUGHAM, Si: R. PEEL, and the LORD ADVO CATE took_part, the clause was agreed to without a division. The House then resumed, and the report was or dered to be received on Monday next. ADMINISTRATION OF JUSTICE BILL. On the motion of the: ATTORNEY-GENERAL on the Order of the Day for the further considera tion of this Bill— Mr. JONES should oppose this Bill with refer ence to its introduction into Wales. In the first place he objected to the proposed addition to the number of Judges. The supporters of the Bill were not agreed among themselves upon that point, for the Attorney-General said, that as the number of Welsh Judges was to be reduced, that of the Eng lish Judges ought to be increased; while the Right Hon. Secretary for the Home Department put the argument the other way, and said, that as there was to be an addition to the number of English Judges, who could perform the business of the Welsh Circuits, the number of the Welsh Judges might be diminished. He did think, even with re ference to England, that before three new Judges were added to the number, while there was one Court almost without business, a very strong case ought to be made out for their appointment. This Bill was against the wishes of the Principality. He objected most decidedly to the clause provided for the consolidation of the counties by the order of the King, assisted with the advice of his Privy Council; it gave an unconstitutional degree of power to the Executive Government, and he was astonished that such a clause should have come from men professing liberal Whig principles. In this respect the Bill copied the provisions of an Act of Henry VIII. and the part copied was the most ob jectionable part of the Statute. In commenting upon that Statute, Lord Coke said that the power given by that clause was a most monstrous power. But bad as that clause was, it was not so bad as the clause in the present Bill; for in the Statute of Henry VIII. the power was confined to the then reigning Monarch, and the word " Successor" was omitted; but in the Bill now before the House that word was introduced, and its introduction extended a power which he was disposed to look upon with much jealousy, and that ought, if greeted at all, to have been limited to the life of the Monarch on whom it was conferred. He did not believe that the present Ministry would abuse the power thus con ferred on them ; but he could not so well answer for the intentions and conduct of any future Mi nistry, who might use it most vexatiously, provided it would tend to increase the extent of their power and influence. He would suppose that Caermarthen, or any other town, sent a Representative to Parlia ment, and that in the discharge of what he conceived to be his duty that Representative gave offence to the Ministry, they might revenge themselves by takin g away the Assizes from the town he represented, and give them to another at some distance from it; and this they might do under pretence of the necessity for consolidating the counties for the better admi nistration of justice. But there were other objec tions to the Bill, arising from the evils that must follow the introduction of the present system of ad ministration of justice into Wales. The Hon. and Lsarned Member for Knaresborough had shown that by the law, as it now stood in England, it was not worth the while of any man to sue another for a less sum than 50/., and he justly complained oft hat as a great evil in Wales; on the contrary, people scarcely ever had to sue for a sum so large as 501., for they could safely bring an action for a much less sum, since their costs would hardly amount to more than I/., a system which, in his opinion, was one of as cheap as he knew it was of speedy justice. Then the Hon. Member for Knaresborough said, that one of the evils of the present system in England was, that it occasioned great expense in the conveyance of the witnesses to a distant assize town, and their maintenance there. The complaint was well founded; yet that very evil would be occasioned to the Welsh if the object of the Right Hon. Gentleman, in the consolidation of counties was to be carried into effect, for the counties could not be consolidated without the assize town being removed to a greater distance than at present from the borders of the county. Another evil would result from the use of the English system of pleading. At present sham pleas were unknown in the Welsh Courts; for, as the pleadings were framed under the eyes of the Judges of the Court, they' took care to admit no sham plea; and if any was attempted to be introduced they stopped it at once, by requiring its verification on oath. He contended, therefore, that, in every respect, the Welsh system of the administration of justice would be rather de teriorated than improved by the operation of this Bill. Besides this, the Welsh were satisfied with the present system of Judicature; and in proof of that assertion he might mention that the number of Welsh causes tried in English counties bad been an nually diminishing in each of the last ten years, and j that in the last year only 22 Welsh causes (in eluding those of Chester) were tried in the English Assize Courts. The objections to subjecting the Welsh to the English equitable jurisdiction were greater than those which applied to their being put under the jurisdiction of the Common Law Courts. If a Welsh farmer was made the legatee of a sum of 201., was be to be subjected to the necessity of instituting a suit in Chancery for the recovery of his legacy ? He trusted that no such evil might be in flicted on them. The present plan was to send them from tribunals which confessedly worked well, to others which, by universal consent, required much amendment. He hoped that Ministers, there fore, would pause before they changed the system, in order to ascertain more completely the wishes of the people of the Principality. He moved that the Bill he re-committed on this day six months. Mr. D. W. HARVEY opposed the Bill with great regret, because it purported to be a measure of legal reform. He objected to the creation of three new Judgeships; and if there were tiny foundation for the resistance ()tiered to the Bill for appointing one additional Equity Judge, how much more rea son wag there for objecting to the nomination of three new Cornr,lon Law Judges ? If the Bill of the Hon. Member for Knareshorough were to pass, forming fifty new local jurisdictions, any chapgs: of this kind would be quite unnecessary. 'lt was true that the Court of King's Bench was overwhelmed with business, but the Court of Common Pleas had not its average share, and the Court of Exchequer might be almost said to have nothing to do; so that the four Barons must he looked upon as legal pen sioners. A return on the table showed that the timber of causes brought before the King's Pena; within a certain period, amounted to 11,000, wir :n the Common Pleas they were only 3000, and n the Exchequer no more than 1,000. He recon. mended that some officer should be appointed to select the issues to be compulsorily tried in each Court; for if the business were properly divided, the present number of Judges would be sufficient. A do cument upon the table, entitled " A return of the total number of causes tried in 1826, 1827, and 1828." presented some extraordinary results, of which, he believed, Hon. Members were not aware. The ciuses in which verdicts had been given were 5,655, and the amount of damages in the Posteas was 836,3931., or, on the average, some few shillings more than 150/. for each cause; while the amount of damages in 5,655 causes was 836,3931. The sum paid for taxed costa in the same causes, was no less than 1,205,0004 ; so that the expence (without de ductir, 25 per cent. for taxation) considerably ex ceeded tlie sum recovered by the verdicts.--(Hear, hear.) lie was therefore satisfied that those who brought in this Bill were beginning reform at the wrong end ; it was idle to appoint new Judges until some more economical and prompt administration of justice had been established; it was merely giving new patronage to the Crown, without any substantial benefit to the people. His great objection to the Bill befure the House was, that it was premature ; the question ought first to be decided whether the fifty new local jurisdictions were to be established ; if they were established, the quantity of business in Westminster-hall must be diminished, and the three new Judges could on no pretence be required. The equalisation of the Circuits was an important point, and would be attended with very considerable advantage and relief to those Judges who had at present the hardest duties. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR agreed that it was a great evil for Judges to have seats in the House of Com mons, and to look up to Ministers for further advance ment; but he maintained that the Barons of the Exchequer were fully competent to their duties, and discharged them with great learning arid exemplary industry. He supported a Bill, the object of which was to bring the Welsh counties within the English jurisdiction. Mr. E. DAVENPORT concurred with the Hon. Member for Colchester that this Bill was prema ture. He particularly resisted the proposed inva sion of the rights of the County . Palatine of Chester. He also resisted the plan for uniting counties in Wales, and giving the Attorney-General the power to stick his compasses into any part of the map of the Principality, and to make out new arrondisse ments. For these and other reasons he trusted that he was justified in opposing the principle of the Bill, as it was not a preventing but a destroying principle. Sir R. PEEL objected to the details of the Bill having so much been entered into, when the real point that they had to discuss was the principle of the Bill. After the repeated complaints of delay, and the unanimous vote of that House for an Ad dress to the Crown for a Commission to inquire into this crying evil, the course now pursued was certainly an extraordinary one. Now that the in quiry had been instituted, and the report had been made, they were asked to begin the inquiry over again, and by persons who he would venture to say, had never read the report at all. This, however, was the constant course now pursued : for inquiry they had clamour; and when the time for inquiry had gone by, then fresh inquiry was called for. He would, however, ask Hon. Gentlemen before they decided against the principle of this Bill, to advert a little to the facts of the case. The first inquiry of the Commission was with respect to the Courts of Common Law; and, with reference to the Court of King's Bench alone, it appeared that there had, within five years, been begun in that Court no less than 281,000 causes. In the year 1823 the num ber was 43,000; in 1826 it was 69,000; and in 1827 it was 66,000. The exertions beyond doubt were very great, but at the same time the accumu lation of business was excessive. With respect to the Common Pleas, also, there was an arrear of Nisi Pubis business. The Commission, however, was of opinion that it was not wise to tax the Judges too much, and the remedy that they therefore pro posed was, that the business of the Courts should he equalized, and that a new Judge should be added for that purpose to each Court. If, then, these three new Judges were appointed for the purpose of expediting the business, the question would then arise, whether they would be exclusively occupied by the business thus assigned to them ; or whether, on the other band, it would not be possible to em ploy them in the place of the eight Welch Judges. If this could be done, the countryivould save the expence of those eight Judges ; and Government had come to the conclusion, that if these three Judges were appointed, ihey could not ask the Par liament to continue eight unnecessary Judges, espe cially as they were of opinion that justice would he better administered in Wales by Judges of station and character—with those of the superior Courts of the country—than by Judges (for whom though he entertained tire highest respect) who held their office tenable, with seats in Parliament, and who neces sarily had a great part of their time occupied as practising barristers. But then it had been objected that they ought riot to make this alteration, because the people of the Principality were opposed to it. On this subject he begged to say that no one could speak more affectionately than he did of the Prin cipality of Wales, for he most unaffectedly ho noured the character of that Principality; nor did lie believe that there was in any part of the empire au example more worthy of being followed or re spected. But was it possible for him to read the evidence that had been given before the Commis sion, and admit that this proposal was inimical to the interests or the feelings of the Principality ? On this occasion, be it observed, it was not any asset tion of his that he was advancing, but a point resting entirely on evidence before the House. On looking over that evidence, it would appear that the Hon. Member for Brecknock, and five of the Chairmen of the Quarter Sessions in Wales, were unanimously of opinion that the proposed change would be to the benefit of the Principality. After such evidence as this, was it fair to represent that the people were adverse to the measure ? Or would Government have been justified in refusing to act on the recommendation of the Commission ? Besides, it was a fallacy to say that the Principality had had its local Courts, and that this Bill was taking them away. There would be just as many local Courts as ever, only the justice in them would be administered by English Judges. Another point, too, was worthy of observation, which was, that there was in this matter a considerable sacrifice on the part of the Government; for if they were in clined to appoint Judges merely for the sake of pa tronage, then Welch Judgeships were the very ones in which they were safe, as they were more withdrawn from the public notice. The Govern ment, however, not only proposed to relinquish those offices, but also all tire patronage and ma chinery that went along with them. It was not, however, his intention to enter into details on this occasion ; the principle wae.now before the House, and he trusted t h at i t wou ld f ee l t h at a f ter a Com mission had been appointed at its own request, it was not quite decorous to refuse to give his Hon. Friend an opportunity of more fully explaining the expected operation of the Bill. Sir C. WETHERELL sad that although leave had been giver! for bringing in this Bill, it was no more than giving leave for the bringing of a sheet of blank paper, so much was the Bill altered from its original presentation. He still must contend,' in spite of what the Right Hon. Secretary had said, that the people of Wales were opposed to the alte ration ; and he must observe by the way, that tire Chairmen of Quarter Sessions had never been held to be the representatives of their counties. He did not think that it was advisable to take away a jurisdie:ion which they had enjoyed for so many years, unless they took some means of knowing the popular feeling on the subject; he did not mean to say that they ought to poll or ballot the Princi pality ; but he should certainly be glad to know whst Were the sentiments of the mass . Hi s mo tion was, that the Bill ought to have been brought y, -, '~ ~ ) s l / 4 :ss in and passed over to the next Session. lie - also wanted to know what were the sentiments of the GOvernment with respect. to the Local Judica ture Bill just' introduced by the Learned Member for Knaresborough; because it would be singular enough if, while this Act was diminishing local judi cature, Government should admit the principle of that Bill, which was to establish local jurisdiction— thus in 1830 performing the act of demolition, and in 1831 the act of reconstruction. The House was also entirely kept in the dark as to what system of practice was to be pursued; they knew, indeed, that the Judges were to be changed, but no hint had been dropped as to what other proceedings were to mark the alteration. He would even concede that the new Judges were required; but surely the Welsh mode of pleading ought to be retained. The forms of proceeding in the Courts of Wales might still be preserved, notwithstanding the ap pointment of additional Judges; but the Attorney- General said no. It certainly might not be con venient to Hon. and Learned Gentlemen to hold six, or ten, Courts in one day; but the practice was ex ceedingly convenient to the people of Wales. Under the new arrangement to be made by the present Bill, all the law of Wales was to emanate from Westminster Hall. The whole was to come from London, in stead of being had almost the moment it was re quired in the Principality. Thus cheap justice was exchanged for dear. He would gladly learn from the Hon. and Learned Gentlemen opposite how the Bill was to operate. Not one of them had as yet condescended to explain how the Bill would operate --not, ire was sure, from any inability on the part of the Learned Attorney-General to explain his meaning whenever he might be so minded ; but it must be evident to the House that he had not yet thought proper to explain the operation of the Bill or that of any one of its clauses. He had not up to the present moment distinctly stated whether the rules, the forms, the Courts, the pleadings, were to be all or in part preserved or abolished. If there were any man in that House who knew anything of the matter, he had not yet thought proper to explain himself, or enlighten those who happened to be in ignorance, in which number he included die greater part of those who heard him. If there were any one in that House who understood the operation of the Bill, it was greatly to be regretted that he should keep the knowledge to himself, and call upon Par liament to legislate in the dark—to legislate specula tively—to legislate injuriously. They could only understand this, respecting the matter in question, that they were getting rid of that which was in ex istence, but they received no information as to what they were to obtain in return. As for the pre amble of the Bill, it might well be likened to a sheet of white paper, for it contained no information what soever; and upon those grounds he thought he should best consult the interests of justice in re fusing his support to the measure. Colonel WOOD had conversed with every per son of influence arid intelligence resident in the county which he represented, and, with very few exception, he found every one of them, professional and otherwise, disposed to support any measure which would go to assimilate the administration of justice in England and Wales. Mr. O'CONNELL objected to the principle of the Bill. Had any effort been made by the framers of the present Bill to reconcile varying and conflict ing decisions, to remedy the evil of positive Statutes being repealed by Judges, or any one of the crying and intolerant abuses that had crept into our system of jurisprudence ? How then could that Bill be called a Bill for the Reformation of the LaW ? It was a "leaving out of the part of Hamlet' by par ticular desire." It applied itself to that which was of secondary or of no importance, and passed by in silence the only matters demanding remedy. What did it do for expedition ? Nothing at all ; though there was the Court of King's Bench with more business than it could get through, the Court ofl Common Pleas with much less than it could per- I form, and the Court of Exchequer with scarcely any. As it was true that the Court of King's Bench had too much business, it might, perhaps, be some ad vantage_ to it to add another Judge ; but there was the Court of Common Pleas with not more than a third of the business of the Court of King's Bench. The Court of Common Pleas tried but 3,000 causes in a year; while the King's Bench tried 11,000. Why not remedy the monopoly enjoyed by a certain class of barristers in the Court of Common Pleas? —(A laugh.) Other causes were supposed to keep the want of business at so low an ebb in that Court; but there was a third Court, and one in which no business was done—he meant the Court of Exchequer—why was not something done with that ? It might be made as efficient as the Court of King's Bench for anything that he saw to the contrary. It might be made to try 10,000 causes in a year, anti the Common Pleas 8,000 above its present number, being a total of 18,000. Would there not be in that something that might tend to render justice cheap and expeditious? In Ireland the Court of Exchequer at present did the most bus;ness. Into the causes which created that difference he would not atop to inquire, but in Ireland the case was not always so. At one time the Common Pleas bad the greaten amount of business; it was when fees were payable; and then, he might say, that in 75 out of every 76 cases the plaintiff succeeded. So attractive did this circum stance render the Court, that suitors flocked to it in unprecedented numbers; no sooner, however was the system changed and fees abolished, than the current of business began to flow in an opposite channel, and the Court of Common Pleas in Ireland became sufficiently deserted. To return to the Bill under consideration. It abolished the local juris diction of the Courts of Wales, under which execu tion could be had in the short space of fifteen or twenty days, and, probably, under the new arrange ment the suitor would not have execution in as many months. Hence it was evident that expe dition was not gained by it, and he believed it would be found that it was equally evident that cheapness was not amongst the number of its recommendations. In Wales if a poor man had a legacy bequeathed to him of 201., which to him was wealth, he had his local Court of Equity for the recovery of that legacy; that he possessed in all times past; but what was he to have fur the future ? The Bill before the House took away from him Iris local Court of Equity, and gave him nothing in return except the benefit of filing his Bill in the High Court of Chan cery, and the dignity of an appeal to the House of Lords. Again, in the case of verbal or written agreements for land of a particular kind, though it might be for five acres, it was still an object to a poor man ; and yet from the resident in Wales the present Bill took away the remedy which he enjoyed. In Ireland he had himself 500, nay 5,000 times told the poor man who held agreements for land, " You have the clearest case in the world—there can be no doubt that justice and the princisies of equity are with you, but you must file a Biir in the Court of Chancery." Such a reply of course put an end to his hopes; and he had no difficulty in asserting that the want of a remedy in such cases led to much of the disturbances which unhappily oceurred in Ireland. One of the most awful crimes committed in that country—the burning of the family of the Sheas— had its origin in the want of such a remedy as that which he described—the want of means to obtain a decree for specific execution. That \Vales possessed; and now the Hon. and Learned Gentleman sought to deprive the Principality of that advantage. Was he, in making those observations, to be understood as standing up in that House to advocate the existing system as it stood now in Wales 2 Quite the con trary; he was any thing but the advocate of a system which enabled gentlemen to exercise the functions of Judges in any part of the kingdom, and at the same time possess seats in that House; h s was anything but the advocate of a system which allowed gentle ,nen to give opinions upon nominal cases in their capacity of practising barristers, and next decide si milar cases in the capacity of Judges. If neces sary, let the number of those Judges be cur tailed—let the salaries of those who remained be increased—let them devote their entire time to the discharge of their judicial duties—let all practicable .~ _, e .' and advantageous reforms be introduced, but let not the rich man be benefitted at the expence of the poor. lie - objected also to the Bill, because the humane clauSe was thrown overboard—that which limited arrests on mesne process to sums over 100/. was thrown out, and the protection of men in humble life was swept away from them. When be heard the powerful, he might say the seductive, speech of the Right Hon. Baronet opposite on the subject of legal reform, at the commencement of the Ses sion, he could not but regard it as a speech full of hope and of promise; and if that Right Hon. Ba roaet possessed as much legal knowledge as he then showed disposition to remedy abuses—a disposition, no doubt, sincerely expressed—it would remain for him (Mr. O'C.) to throw together his thoughts upon that interesting and important subject. After a few words from Mr. WILBRAHAM, - The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said that the views of the Hon. and Learned Member for Clare might be extremely well founded, but he must be allowed to say that up to that time at least they were purely theoretical, and as theories, he must continue to treat them until that Hon. and Learned Gentleman thought proper to bring in a Bill him self embodying the opinions which then and at other times he had expressed upon the subject of legal re forms. He next proceeded to reply to his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Plympton. After complaining of the preambles having been likened to a sheet of white paper, he proceeded to observe that it did riot appear to him that his Honourable and Learned Friend had, on the present occasion, exer cised his usual industry, or he would have been at no loss for the tendency and operation of the several clauses of the Bill ; and when they went into Com mittee, if the House agreed to do so, he would un dertake to explain to his Hon. and Learned Friend the operation of every one of the clauses. He next noticed the clauses that had been added to the Bill, observing that it was considered more convenient to make the enactment for the payment of the retiring Welsh Judges, and for the payment of the new Judges, part of the present measure, than to intro duce a new Bill for that purpose. The only effect of the Bill was to assimilate the jurisdiction of the law in both parts of the kingdom—to make the King's writ obeyed in Wales as it was all over Eng land ; and so far as he could learn—and he had taken every pains to inform himself upon the subject—it was the universal opinion both in England and in Wales, that the time had arrived, when that asssitni lation ought to take place. He had now nothing more to say, except that he believed there did not exist a worse system than that which prevailed in Wales. He had only in conclusion to say, that the object of this Bill was to put all the Courts upon the same footing; and if the House would but go into Committee on the Bill, he felt little apprehen sion of not being able to satisfy them, clause by clause, that the Bill would accomplish the objects proposed; and further to show, that those objects were in themselves;beneficial. Mr. G. G. MORGAN, though he represented a place in Wales, should support the motion for going into a Committee. Sir JOHN OWEN should oppose the motion. Mr. WILLIAMS WYNNE declared his inten tion to support the Bill. He cordially approved of all its clauses, with, perhaps, one exception. The House then divided, when there appeared For the motion Against it Majority —99 On re-entering the Gallery we found the House in a Committee on the Bill. On the clause empowering the Judges to sit in rotation at certain periods, Sir C. WETHERELL re-stated some of the objections he felt to the appointment of three new Judges, and expressed a hope that the Attorney- General would now put an end to the practice of giving judgment on matters in Banco, without the presence of the Chief Justice. His Hon. and Learned Friend (the Attorney-General) knew well that up to the time of Lord Mansfield it was the invariable practice not only to require the presence of the Chief Justice, but to have the case twice argued. He did not desire that, but he hoped the old practice would be revived with reference to the Chief. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL, in reply, ad mitted the propriety of the Learned Gentleman's suggestion, and observed, that by a clause in this Bill, the Act which empowered three puisne Judges to sit in Banco was repealed, and therefore the ancient practice would be revived as a matter of course. Alter some discussion on points not at all connect ed with the clause under consideration, that clause was ultimately agreed to; and it being a quarter to two o'clock, the House resumed, and the Chairman having reported progress, obtained leave to sit again on Monday next. The other Orders of the Day were then read, and the House adjourned at Two o'clock, until this day at Twelve o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. ORDERS OF THE DAY FOR THIS DAY. I. Registrar at Madras Bill—Second Reading; Counsel. 2. Local Jurisdiction Bill—Second Reading. NOTICES OF MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY. I. Dr. Phillimore—Mot ion for the dates of the several applica tions for building Chapels, specified in the Return made by the Commissioners under the Church Building Acts on 27th May, IRA 2. Dr. Phillintore—Return of the number of Causes in which proceedings have been c.irried on for the purpose of ob. taming sentences of separation a mensa et thoro, by reason of adultery, in the several Ecclesiastical Courts of Eng land and Wales, from 1822 to 1829, inclusive, and the re sult of all such proceedings. NOTICES GIVEN YESTERDAY. I. Sir Edward Knatchbull—On the Report of the Sale of Beer Bill, to move a Clause to limit the operation of the Act to three years, and to prohibit persons licensed under the Act from selling Beer to be consumed on the premises. (Monday, June 21.) 2. Mr. Hobhouse—Petition from certain Inhabitants of West. —...-.. . ...... minster, relating to Improvements in the parish of St. Martin•in•the•Fields. (Monday, June 21.) 3. Mr. Hume—ln Committee on the Administration of Justice Bill, to move that the Salaries of all future Judges shall not exceed 4,000/. (Monday, June 21.) 4. Mr. George Dawson—Civil Contingencies, Commissariat, Army Extraordinaries. (In Committee of Supply.) (Mon.. day, June 21.) 5. Mr. Hume—Copies of the Correspondence between the Vestry of the parish of St. Luke and the Commissioners for the Building of Churches, respecting the building of an additional Church in that parish. (Tuesday, June'.) Dramaticus" has been misinformed respecting the early careeer of KEAN. We heard from this inimi table actor's own lips that he had fur two years an engage ment in the late Mr. BAKER'S company, and w.ts conse quently well acquainted with the Canterbury boards, adding, with a melancholy smile, " I was a happier fellow then, without a thought of fame, and on a salsry of a guinea a week, than I have been since." Such is the fate of genius--such the price of fame !—Kent Herald. IMPOSTURE AND ELOPEMENT.-A person, styling himself Major Jai:lmola, in the Polish service, ap parently about 50 years of age, five feet ten inches high, good-looking, with huge black whiskers and mustachios, came to Shaftesbury, en militaire, and after staying for a night at a small public-house, he contrived to engage with an old lady (who has for several years accommodated genteel persons with board and lodgings) to take up his board under her roof. He stated that be came direct from Frome, and that he had a large military chest there, which contained the whole of his apparel, and which he had,di rected to be forwarded, but, as may be supposed, no such package ever arrived, and during his sojourn with the Shaftonians he could scarcely be said to have a change oi linen. Mine hostess, however, still permitted him to re side in her house, although his habits were most irregular, and it has since been hinted that the old dame must cer tainly have been wounded by an arrow from Cupid. He was very skilful in painting window-blinds, which en abled him to improve his exterior ; and as he was very loquacious, he managed to ingratiate himself with a re spectable young female, but the intelligence was imme diately communicated to her family, who were not (from the circumstance of her being actually engaged to a gentle man in London) induced to believe it until it was too late. He had full time to make the arrangements for carry ing his intentions into effect, havin g p reva il e d on hi s l a ir one to elope. The parties have been traced to London, but they have not yet been discovered. It is needless to remark that he left his landlady and several of the trades men couliclerably in debt...Dorset County Chronicles PRICES OF STOCICS TATS Batik Stock. .216 15 1 4 3 .ier Cent. Red. 91N% 3 per Cent. C0n5.....« ..... shut 34 per Cent...," .......... .. 99N Ditto /1ed.... ......... „,,,....99%U 4 per Cent. Ann. ...... ...... shut Ditto, Is€ 26 - Bank L Ann. „........19 36 1-16 Ditto 30 :i ears • .18 13-16 % Ditto 30 years - India Stock shut 9, tto Bonds pm. PRICES OF FOREIGN FUNDS Austrian Bonds Brazilian Bonds 73 1 4 Buenos Ayres Bonds Chillan Bonds Colombian Bonds Ditto, 18'34 t)anish G reek Bonds Ditto, 1825 0000000000 ..•• Guatitcala Mexican Bonds Ditto, 182') COURSE OF EXCH. , Amsterdam C.F.12 71 Ditto, at sight.... 12 6j Rotterdam .2 U 12 71 Antwerp 12 6 Hamburg M. B. 14 1 Altona l4 11 Paris, 3 days' sight 25 70 Ditto 2 U. 25 90 Bordeaux 25 95 Berlin Frankfort on Maine, Ex M. 154 Petersburgh, ruble, 3Us 10 0 Vienna, effective R. 2 M 10 16 Trieste ....do. 10 16 Madrid 35 Cadiz 36% Gilboa 36 Barcelona 35% Seville 35% Gibraltar 4751 \ OAT AT 014 K O'CLOCK. South Sea Stock ;...6.4.4„ :ohns Old New Ditto.. so"' Ex. Bills, r,OOO Te 79 PO Ditto.... ... . ... 78 79 PO Ditto .....««...5H Mi. 78'79`} Ditto.. 78 74pgi Ditto ;nail 24.'78 79 0 12 . Ditto lid. 78 79 plo• Bank for Account.:..:. ::.: i India for Account .. Leone. for July 21 THIS DAY AT ONZ O'CLOCIr• Neapolitan • ' ... Peruvian Bonds P Pr o u rt s u si g a, Old ß° n .. d .. 5 ...........: ..... Ditto, New Russian Spanish, :Q2l ........ .........184 1823 12 IFrench Bente', sp. c. ,—f --'c' Eichange ...,.. - .4 ....e. 3 per cent. .—f -- 4 '--- Exchange ...t. ••••4' .NGE YESTERDAY. - Leghorn 49 Genoa .23 90,, Venice 471 Mal ta ........ 4 04 Naples ,. 39 Palermo ..........per oz 119 Lisbon .. . ..... .............. 44 Oporto .„..44 Rio .Taneiro ... 2 3 Bahia ........ ........ 28 Buenos Ay re s. .. Dublin, 21 days' sight... It Cork 1 MULLION, PER OZ. . g. 0. d• Portugal Gold, coin... 0 0 ~ Foreign Gold, in bars 3 17 „u New Doubloons ..... .... 0 0 0 New Dollars Silver, bars, standard 0 0 0 NIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO-MORROW r , Morning 50 minutes after 1. I Evening...l7 minutes after ...A', • 41-Et ' 4frilt Jr+ %%Tv. LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 19, 1830. HIS MAJESTY'S HEALTH. The following is the Bulletin issued this day--." " indsor Castle, June 19. " The KING has not slept well. " His MAJESTY has found his respiration more difficul t from time to time in the night. (Signed) " HENRY HALFORD. " MATTHEW J. TIERNEY." EXPRESS FROM PARIS. We have just received by express the Paris Papers of 'Thursday. They do not contain allY information respecting the expedition; nor . (1° the private letters, by the express, mention anY thing on the subject. We presume that the expedition must have remained in Palma bay in consequence of the prevalence of tempestuoas weather. It would clearly be improvident to have risked the safety of such a large and incongruoUS force on a lee shore, during the continuance O northerly and westerly winds. The following are the only extracts which we have room to give:— (From the Cons titutionnel of Thursday.) WARSAW, JUNE 3.—Neither the affairs of Greece wl e Portugal, or other foreign subjects, will occupy the Diets as they are exclusively engaged in what regards the country. A report was spread at the Palace and 'Change, that Government received advises of the firs t division of the expedition having landed on the coast 0 ' Africa. The ifoneteur will inform us to-morrow if Oil news is true. M. Lemonville left Par. a to—day, with despatches fl the army of Africa. French Rentes have again improve°' Three per Cents. 7Sf. 40c. ; Five per Cents. 104 f. 400' LISBON, JUNE (P RIV A TE 12. _ si, e positivelyLE rr !L 11. tarn that the Ceb i ' nets of London, Paris, and Vienna have notified to the Emperor of Brazil the following resolutions : That they will never consent that a Co n itittitional regime shall be established in Portugal; and in else Donn , Maria da Gloria is married to Don Miguel, it should be indifferent to Don Pedro if she has or has not the r ight t° the Crown of Portugal; nevertheless, the children born marriage will always inherit the Crown of Portugal. As it is inconvenient that in Portugal a representative should not be established, Don Pedro must not inaibt Ot maintaining the rights of his daughter to the Crown 0 ' Portugal, or to the exciting any disturbances in that country' . (From the Moniteur.) TELEGRAPHIC DESPATCH. " Toulon, June 17, Nine o'clock. " THE MARITIME PREFECT TO ISIS EXCELLENCY THE 311. NISTER OF WAR AND COLONIES. " The Captain of a ship, who arrived yesterday at Mar' seilles from Soller, in Majorca, has declared that on the 11th the expedition was still at anchor at Palma." Demerara Royal Gazettes to the Ist of Mai have been received. They contain a proclama' tion of the Lieutenant-Governor, Sir BEN!' D'URBAN, respecting the capitation tax for the year, by which those possessing one slave are to pay 3g. 10s., and lg. for all children be' tween three and twelve years of age ; those pos' sessing four slaves 10g., those five 15g., those six 20g., those seven 25g., those eight 30ti and those nine and upwards 40g.: from which increased rate are exempt all planters residing o 0 their estates, the Lieut.-Governor to the extei 4 of 20 domestic slaves, and the civil and eccle' siastical functionaries, and others in public ens' ploy. Tradesmen are to pay for each slave env ployed in their several trades 7g. By an account of the receipts and expenditure of the Colony for 1829, it appears there was 0 great deficiency. The former was 849,248 2 12► while the latter was 896,942 12 8. The nuns' ber of slaves was 68,519. Another proclamation of the Governor orders that each person do pay a poll tax of 6g. for every slave, excepting such as are employed 1 0 plantations, trades, &c., and fixes a certain tas upon estates in cultivation ; the income derived' from which exceeds 2,000 g. Also a colonia l duty of 66g. per pipe on wine in wood, of 4 1 1 per dozen on wine in bottle, port excepted which pays lg., and lg. per gallon on all foreign spirits. A drawback of 50g. to be allowed per pipe on wine re-exported. All transient traders to pay an ad valorem tax of five per cent. on their wares and merchandise. The beacon and tonnage duties of six stivers per ton, land 22P on every merchant vessel entering the port, St / continue in force. A tax of 22g. on everr horse, except brood mares, is to be levied, ad 50g. on every two-wheeled carriage, and 100 fo r every four-wheeled one ; and the following tr° f on produce :-3ist. on every 100 Dutch lbs. ° I sugar ; from 24 to 33 on every 100 gallons 0 rum, according to quality; 12st. on every 10 0 gallons of molasses; 7 on every 100 Dutc h toil ibs. ;ID of and coffee per e 9 c o e n n t e . all v o e i r l y a l c O co O u D nt ut o c f h lbs. c ot' , tains and cattle sold. We have a series of the Tobago Gazette' to the beginning of May. From the heavy raio which had fallen there the most serious aP prehensions respecting the crop were entertaine ll The Houses of Legislature were sitting, tut‘i Leg • fort' whic his-1 matt to r€ W i; to re, that been had so man they Rot one thre dati actel M aj app - No rear loot Thor to a atm) hive letter did n write reeeif nal. fishes guilt) Mr.] to hi' quire repli senti idea upor pedi , to gi SHI Dx Rozb Sierra Pt the B the at ville. bibite The Sales Co off y 4 barga rival fro m prove Laa Ti presei WI from 25th ject : the C be d War Farei twee aurae for I' that after on Li Baal Inch S pet Do. 1 Ditt, the ; at 92 Tt that quote stagn Brazi Real PoHu F( Con Do. Br a: Bue Chit CO