The Sun. — London, England, 1830-06-11 00:00:00

, . ` s :_~ HT) fori; ob. arned rf the • t the igion• ed JO evils repro' r a ny 141 1(1 the ous at .liould Ca , tack on it lion , others xtunitY metioo ailment leattisel a Lad. In the Itl - feel people cuurch of Irela n d on the some footing with . - the , church of Eng land, to give the Catholic the right of voting in the vestry, anti thus to take away from the few the absolute power of disposing of the property of the many. He was sorry that the Hon. Member for Limerick had interposed as he had done. He (Mr. O'Connell) disclaimed the amend meet of the Hon. Member, and felt surprised that he ahneld seem satisfied with the Vestry Act, Mr. RICE denied most positively that he was satisfied with th e Vestry Act, and the best proof that he was not 'atisileti with it was, that he had ',moved to amend it. Mr: - O'CONNELL .had not said that the .Hon Member .atisritti with the Vestry Bill. He could not have sold Ito, for he knew" that the Haile Mettalst• had moved to amend it. What he said wit, that the'Hon. Member ap peared to he satisfied With the Bill. Lord kILLEEN felt some difficulty as to the two llitestiousnow before the House. He thought the amend ttieht of the Hon. Member for Limerick the. be'ter -of the two, but he could still vote for the motion -of the Hon. l‘lembet for. Clare and should certainly do so. • It was an acknowledged fact that the Vestry Bill required alteration and amendment; and he should certainly be glad if the Right Hon. Baronet, advanced as the Session was, would yet undertake to bring in some measure to remedy the evils of th it Bill. If the Right Hon. Bart. would have promised to do so, he would not vote for the measure now before the Ilouse ; but, as matters now stood, he should vot e for either or for both of the propositions now under consideration. The House then divided—. • Per Mr, O'Connell's motion l7 - Against it' l4l Majority..,.., —124 CHANCERY. Sir C. WETHERELL commenced by regretting that to mitch time having been employed in' discussing the Irish Vestries' Bill he was compelled to bring forward his Motion at such a late period of the evening. The Bill to which he objected, proposed the appointment of a fourth Judge in the Courts of Chancery. He complained that it had been introduced after Parliament had been sitting for roue months; but he knew that' in fact this measure, com bined- With the Bills for altering the Welch Judicature, formed so crude a mane, that it was nut fit for the atten tion of - the House at an earlier period. Indeed for him eels, he thought it was a half built ship, which ought not to have been launched at all in the present SessiOn. Down, however, bad come Lord Lyndhuist's Bill from the House of Lords, and up started at once two other Bills to amend it. He was most decidedly opposed to his Lordship's project, and being so he preserved his consistency ; fOr What he now said there, he had often said in Westminster hall. He believed that a fourth Judge was not necessary, and he considered that the measure which proposed his appointment was one of the most noxious, pestilent, and tnischievons, that had ever been introduced to Parliament. Ile objected to this Bill; because it was intended simply for th e personal convenience of the Lord Chancellor. It Was not a measure of permanent 'operation; for it was not imperative on the Crown to re-appoint this Judge. It Was therefore a sort of job ;• it was destined only for the convenience of an individual, and coda not be justified by causes of a aolid and enduring nature. He asserted it was It shifting thing ; and when the Lord Chancellor - called for it, h e begged ao ask him whether it was because he would - not do his duty, orbecause he could not do his duty? He pressed'fbrPanatitiver to this question, and an answer must b e given beforelhey could, with any regard to character or consistency; atiempt to proceed: The proposition; ac -on-111,60y, whitlf he had thdt night to submit, was in the 'thee* of a Resolution : tt That it is the duty of this "House, before it gives its sanction to the appointment of a further Judge in the Court of Chancery, to aseeStain, 'by 'the examination of witnesses; and other in quiries, whether a case of necessity exists for such appointment." Thus he presied, it. upon the House - , that this fourth Judge should nothe appointed until they were satisfied by evidenc e at the tar, • that this new office of jurisdiction WA% necessary. And how:wa s it the case actually stood ? In 1813, the Vice-Chancellor's:Bill was. passed. Till then, there were only two. Judges in the Court of Chan cery third being so added, they went on till 1830. It was.ta be remarked.tooi that the Lord Chancellor had •also the-assistance of a, Deputy-Speaker in the House of ; latedw.. But:now, in 1830, a certain class ef projectors B aid this was not enough—they should have a fourth •erourt. He, however, asserted that a fourth court was not necessary, and in this assertion he was supported by the authority of the Master of the Rolls, who, not once, but repeatedly had expressed this opinion, and endeavoured to snake the projectors give up th,t Bill. The Vice-Chan cellor had done the same thing. If the Solicitor-Gene ral) by crying hear ! hear ! meant to say it was not so, he ‘be4ged, in reply to state it was.. He knew it might be urged, that because, in his examination before the Chan cery Coniroission,- Vic e -Chancellor Shadwell bad observed, _tnree angels could not do the duty of the Court of Chan cery, It was quite impossible that he could express a con trary opinion at: that moment. But it should be remem bered that the Vice-Chancellor's metaphor applied to a particular periorl,,yflien there was a great arrear—one which it was doubted could ever he got over. But now it was different; and Vice-Chancellor Shadwell was a gentleman in 'Whom there was no back Sliding or tergiversation - a qUility not belonging to all men.—(Load cheers.) — He trusted, therefore, that he would have no Nisi Priiii allusions to the metaphor. Two oat of three of the Judgeti of the Co ur t of Chancery were then opposed to this ap poiatthent ; two to 'whom there could be no in , justitelo.applying,the doctrines of liberty and equality, for certainly Lord Lyndhurst could not claim a higher scale :for adhering to his Opinions, or for his veracitytor preten e sions than could, either of the others.—( Hear, and laughter.) :.His Lordship might be equal to them, but he was not snore than equal ; his solitary opinion therefore could not over . balance those of 'the other two. All men must believe those Judges perfectly equal; all men under the canopy of the British Constitution would give them equal and co urdinate credit. I think the House will not pay such at tention to any individual -authority. I think the House will not so legislate, and, therefore, they will not assent to Lord Lyndlaurst's project. He had also, in addition to the V ice-Chancellor and the Master of AFXells, another wit ness to call—the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He would abstract the lion. Member for'Veyamuth of 1828 from the Solicitor-General of 1830. rn 1828 he found the non. Member for Weymouth declared that the plan proposed by the Hon. Member for Denham for amending the practice of the Court of Chancery, would cut up our solid foundations and revolutionize,=(Hear, hear.)—He took this from the document they usually consulted— " Hansard's Parliamentary Delates"—Now his moderate language was, that the change was not necessary—(Hear; and laughter:) —He had taten the sting out of the meta phorical accusations ef the Solicitor-General. In that speech which he was quoting, the Right Hon. Gentleman went on to say that 1,0°2 causes had been disposed of in the Court of Chancel?' during the year 1827, and he stated 'the reason there was not more to be, that there were two ` . ;Vice-Chancellors is that year, and that this circumstance e 'necasioned 'delay, since it required some time to make ' Clem masters of their business. In this same 1827, too, he'remarked tlat the Master of the Rolls had disposed of 540 cases. Now this was his (Sir C. Wetherell's) --- ,third witness. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then opposed' the Hon. Member for Durham's motion, because no case of necessity could be made out, and because the Vice-Chaneellor had not, in consequence of his recent ap- pointment, acquired a sufficient facility of decision. He had also another witness, known to many Hon. Members of that ;louse—.Mr. Bell. This gentleman was entirely opposes to the change, and desired him so to express him self. And further, he believed there was not at the bar one irdividual who, if the question were put to him its an abstr.ct shape, would not say that a fourth Judge was un neccasary, if the Lord Chancellor would or could perform Motility. Another witness on his side was the Hon. Mein. bu for Wootten Bassett, who made a very able speech, for which he received Lord Lyndhurst's thanks. The Hon. Aember shook his head ; not of course because he had re !Tired, but because(' he had not received the Lord Chan cellor's thinks..(Laughter.)—H e Loped then that he would have that Hon. Member's able assistance to prevent the Lord Chancellor front being thrown into the predica ' rnent of doing nothing himself, and having a j ourneyman o assist him.—(Loud laughter.)—The Right Hon. Ba ronet too had declared that the multiplication of Judges Was an evil. This was in 18°8, and then the Right lion. Secretary argued the change could not be supported by the u plea of necessity, on the ground of which it should alone take place. The Right Hon. Gentleman said he had not then the papers before him, to show that the necessity existed in 1828. He asked what new light had broken in •ott him. He called on the lion. Member for Wootten Bassett to support him. His thanks, it was true, unlike those of the Lord Chancellor, were fraught with no pa . troilage—they came altogether unfruitful ; but if he would afford hint his able assistance, he should have his thanks and his praise for his consistency, and that was no mean compliment for any man to possess. —( Hear, and great laughter.) —Ile call e d on th e H on . Member, and til e Right 'Hon. 'Baronet, either to support him, or to show the data which they had procured to prove the mea sure should be now adopted which they had tepudiated in 1828. There were 300 bankrupt petitions in arrear 1828. It would be Perfectly natural to inquire what was the present arrear of bankrupt petitions--there was slot one in the Vice-Chancellor's paper. In the Lord Chan cellor's paper there was an arrear of 29 ; be did not com plain of thAt umber there might saint A bundant rcasons for there being an arrear of 29*pititiona', Iwt there was no arrear in'the ite-Gh.arieellneti . Court. On the .19th of February he inoveal.for a return of the arrears of bankrupt petitions, and the answer tailiat mdtion was, that there was, at the time of snaking the return, -no arrear. The Vice-Chancellor, with great. credit • to himself, and ex traordinary advantagti td the parties interested, disposed of the *hole of •thatil. Ile :did. dot like arithmetical logi ;Zans—bad cases were geneipicluaked in arithmetical calculations;. but he would just state-a plain case in a plain manner. In Hilary Term, 1830, there was an arrear of various matters, causes,' petitions, exceptions,:further di .rections, Rte. various matters in the whole, .amount ing to 1,061. Now, was the arrear in the Court of Ch in eery swelling or contracting? From Hilary Term 1830., to Easter Term, there was a decrease of 818 of the total matters pending—leaving at that time the amount of arrear 713, 348 wiped off, - and not only that, but the bank milt-list so diminished, that the Lord Chancellor had only 29 remaining, and the Vice-Chancellor none 'at all ; and the time of that Judge - was occupied constantly in ,hearing and adjudicating, so that the, business of the Court has been freed from anything bearing even the appearance_ of arrear. The Solicitor-General stated in 182 S, that 1,000 causes had been disposed of; the same might be :expected to be done in- the present year, the more especially as the bankruptcy was gone, and therefore the' .entire attention of- the Judges can be given to the existing arrear of '713 causes; and he did not hesitate to affirm, that if the three Judges did not get through -the arrear within that time, or if every one of them did not perform his aliquot part of the duty, then he would say that that individual would not, or could not, perform his duty. He made this broad statement of the condition of the Court, without troubling the House too much with figeres ; but he believed and knew he was right. He thotight then that lie stated enough to main tain his resolution—to maintain. the broad principle' for which he contended. Ile had no special predilection for any particular form; but he would assert that the House ought not to legial its in the dark—ought not to legi►late in the teeth of the known opinion of the Bar, in opposi tion to the known opinion of two of the Judges of. that Court—that was all he contended for—he did not con tend that a Committee ought to be formed, but the House should not decide without evidence. Even supposing it could be shown that the new Judge could do no harm— stil the absence of a necessity for his 'appointment was de cisive against the proposed measure. To adopt the lingo** of the Right Hon. Secretary opposite, he would object to the multiplication of Judges as one of the greatest evis that could* attach to the administration of justice. He begged of the House to look a lithe at the consequences. If a new Judge were appointed in Chancery, the Lord Chan cellor would never come into Court, for he might well say that the.Le,;islature bad given him, permission to be absent, and small reproach would attach to for availing him self of. the services of the new officei—he knew not by what name he was to be called—whether the Orderly of the Lord-Chancellor, or .by some other appellation—the existing nomenclature 'of the Courts of Equity was -ex hausted, and iewonld;of course, be necessary to find out a new name for hir7l - ; - no doubt, a competent term would be discovered by which to designate.. that high officer. Three men, not of high attainments, but of ordi nary abilities and 'diligence, were competent to discharge' the judicial business of the Court of :Chancery, and who could quarrel with the Lord Chancellor if he availed himself of the license which the proposed measure afforded him ? 'Upon grounds, then, such as these, he would press upon the House the 'adoption of his resolution. In every step he took in this argument, he found himself fortified by the opinions of all who were the most competent to form a sound opinion upon a question of that nature, that this numbing, this unfrocking of the Lord Chancellor, was `the most unwise step that could be taken in the present state of the Court of Chancery. On the question then -under consideration, he might say he had Sir Samuel Romilly with him, who, in the discussions which took place respecting the appointment of a Vice-Chancellor,. contended-that no such officer was : necessary, and that his' appointment would lead to the Lord Chancellor's degene rating from a•legal into a political character, without the learning,. the experience, or the talents necessary for dis charging the'diities 'of his high station. - At that time he (Sir C. W.) contended that a third Judge was required ; but if Sir Samuel Remaly was right, and great weight ought to be attached to his opinion, how true it must be nthat a fourth Judge was now unnecessary, -and therefore • mischievonai At an early period of our history it had been the practice for the Lord Chancellor, on his appoint ment, to deliver an inauguration speech, setting forth his high sense of the duties that had devolved upon him, and detailing the viriotis improvements which be might intend _ _ _ ,_. . to introduce in the constitution of the Court, and the re medies which he might propose for the redress of griev anees and the reform of abuses ; and Sir Samuel Romilly, referring to the speech of Lord Bacon, which Was pre serve I, and to the speeches of others, subsequently ima gined the case of some Shotesbury—some hackneyed in triguer—some debiting politiciae —hackneyed in debate, and hackneyed en both sides of questions—hackneyed here and hackneyed there, the ready tool of any party, the possibility of such men attaining to high places—though nut now in them—the telescopic eye of Hominy foresaw ; and he, as well upon that as upon others, repudiated the appointment of a third Judge. Ought not, then, the Pediment of the present day, a fortiori, to repudiate the appointment of a fourth ? Having now laid before the House the material grounds on which he proposed to rest his resolution, he should not enter into any more minute details—he would net, with Sir Samuel Romilly, contend that a Lord Chaneellor ought to reside at the law end of the town. He would not quarrel with hint for not living in Boswell-court, or Bedford-row, or Chan cery-lane, or other places that smelt of the Court of Chancery--abe was not quite so strait laced as that ; but he would maintain that the Lord Chancellor aught to have something left for him to do. When the Vice-Chancellor's Bill was under consideration, in the year ISIS, Sir John Leach was of opinion that the third Judge was not required. In that he (Sir C. W.) differed from him. His opinion was, that the Master of the Rolls might, by a judicious alteration in his Court, be enabled to render the appointment of a third Judge unnecessary. Thus every authority that could be found was arrayed against the appointment of a fourth Judge. What could form the grounds of such an appointment? Nothing, if there were not -arrears. Now the chief portion of the arrears had disippeareel, and a commencement in the work of diminishing them had a natural tendency to in ' crease the diminution. Sir Launeelot Shadwell applied himself with energy and assiduity to the work of getting through these arrears, and with infinite credit to himself he had made a progress, the results of which could not fail to he highly beneficial, and to be extensively felt. He believed, also, that he spoke within compass when he raid that the Rolls, constituted as it at present was, and the business of it, conducted as it was by Sir John Leach, formed an additional assistance to the business of Chancery, which might be estimated at half a Court ; so that now there might truly he said to be three Courts and a half for the despatch of equity business ; but if they appointed a fourth Judge, the Lord Chancellor might employ his after noon much more agreeably thou heretofore—he need never be open to the imputation cast so frequently upon Lord Eldon, of being too fond of taking home papers with him, for in the new state of affairs he i would have no papers to take—he would have nothing to do, vacua rcx solus in aula. But it was said that the Lord Chancellor might hear appeals. He would have his Vice-Chan cellor, and his .Master of the Rolls, and his third Judge—he knew not by what name to call him—the Lord Chancellor's Orderly—hiqack Rugby---(A laugh)___ and over the whole three he was to be—to borrow the lan guage of an Hon. Gentleman near him—he was to be the schoolmaster who was to correct the errors of the other three, who were to be towards him inferior Judges.— Now, he would ask, where was this sham Lord Chancellor to acquire the learning, the experience, and the skill which were to qualify him for being the superior of those three Judges ? He would have no Court to practice in.— Ile might be a man of great powers. He might be a very able and skilful advocate at Nisi Prius—he might have all the capabilities of becoming a great equity lawyer—but by that arrangement he would be left without a Court in which to learn the principles of the science.,_ Thus, of the four, he would be, not the first, but the last ; and the proposal was to make hint the superior of all : it was a mockery, a farce, a delusion upon the public, to think of appointing a man to correct the errors of men less likely to fall into errors than he was himself. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then adverted to the ac counts he had received of Lord Thurlow from his con temporaries, and his successful labours to acquire a know ledge of the practice of the Court, because he and Lord King and others who filled the office, were compelled ito apply themselves to the business of it. Such would slot be the case, he observed, with persons filling the of ceiof Lord Chancellor, if a third Judge were appointed. He did not so touch want a Committee, as that he wattled that the House should not decide in the dark. He con cluded by moving that it is the duty of this House, &e., as given above. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL hoped that the House would come to the discussion of this question in that ca in and dispassionate tone which became its nature and i -i -t . portance. The course th a t_his.Le a rn e d Friend had pr . sued had also sahjected him to the disadvantage of being $ deprived of the right of reply whi c h he should have had; inalte been alb:owed to in4odul.e hit meagure.in the usual way. The tering too ibat hie ',rained Friend had applied Were objectionable ; neither did he i 'see.Why he should at tempt to turn the thing , to riaicule by applying the nick. name of Jack Rugby to the prnposed new Judge. Neither ;(lid be .exactly tinclerstand the atgurnent of his Learned Friend, for he said that it was as notorious -as any thing could be,. that ther:. was no necessity for ttfourth Judge, and yet he concluded by moving for a Committee to in quire. The next point they had to look at was, the-wit noses which his Learned Friend propo4ed to call. Who were these? In the first place he • quoted the Mister of she Rolls, or at least a letter from him, which he (the Solicitor-General) had not seen. But at least he 'Might observe this—that however excellent their opinion of.that Learned Ju4gc , night . be—and that he Was competent to form a.good opinion rio•One could doubt—it might happen that he had formed hopes respecting the Capabilities of the present Chancery Judges, which were not well'fotinded. With respect to' tile - Nice-Chancellor, be meant to say that,. at the beginning of the present year, his opinion was, that a fourth Judge b was necessary . ; and he was quite sure that Lord Lyndhurst had not been made aware by him that he had changed his Opinion; all the information that his Lordship had derived on , the subject Wag gained from another quarter. He did not wish to dwell too heavily on'the former expreseioni'd the Vice-Chancellor ; but it was well knoWn • that on a former occasion he bad said that three angels could not do the business of the Court of Chancery ; but indeed 'be wag' now far from being persuaded that the Vice-Chancellor was of opinion that another Judge was not necessary. With'respect to anything that lie himself had stated in 1028, he thought that too touch stress ought, not to be laid on that, because at that time he was but a young Member, and owing to the opposition that was shown to• him by the other side, he had felt so embarrassed, that at one time he had really felt doubtful whether he - should be able to go on at all. He was sorry that he should have been understood to have said that the appointment of a new Judge would tend to revolutionise the country: perhaps the expression was unwise; but he had madeuseof it with reference to a new code . ollaWs, rather tbati to the appointment of a new Judge. On thit occasion, however, be was bound. to admit that he was strongly opposed to the appointment of a new Judge—but not 'time so than he was now—and nothing but the necessity that . he saw for the thing could have persuded him to support it. He thought now, as he had thought then, that the inerea.,e of Judges w,s great evil; but he knew that it was absolutely recp4lNl for the due administration of justice, and on that ground bethought that the.propossd measure ought to be favour ably received by the House. This was not an opinion that he had formed'on the instant, for, last Session, as all the Bar knew, he was of opinion that such a step was neces sary; and he would venture to say, that 99 out of every 100 of that Bar were of the same opinion ; therefore, how his Learned Friend had come to the conclusion that not one of that Bar was in favour of the appointment of a new Judge,: he could not conceive. The next witness that his Learned Friend had called in behalf hf his motion, was Mr. Bell. Every one must have a very high opinion of the talents and attainments of that gentleman, hut, at the same time; it was to be remembered that he had retired from the Bar for some time; and; therefore, was not quite: so competent to judge of its present state. His Learned Friend had next relied en-what had been stlted by the Hon. Member for Wootten Basset, but the opinion expressed by. that Learned Gentleman had decidedly been, that another Judge was necessary ; and, with respect to the Right Hon. Secretary, he ,knew that he felt as he (the So.icitor- General)did—they both looked upon it as a great evil, but in this case unavoidable, His Learned Friend bad then gone on to quote the speech of Sir Samuel Romilly, which no doubt was characterised with all that gentle man's talent and knowledge ; but his Learned Friend seemed to have foriotten that that speech had in fact been addressed to him—that he had listened to it at the time— but that it had failed to convince him. Having said thus much with respect to the arguments that had been adduced by his Learned Friend, he would now take the liberty of calling the attention of the Home to what was really the state of the case with respect to the Court of Chancery. For about two centuries this Court had been the constant object of discussion in the House of Commons ; and Bills had frequently been introduced into that House for the purpose of getting rid of the delays that had always existed iu the Court. How was it that they were in these days recommending the sa.re course nearly that had been le commended then ? Was it that the lawyers, in those days, resisted any alteration ; or was it that those in power would not acknowledge the faults that existed' But whatever was the cause, it was indisputable that the Court was nearly in the same situation as now. That was a lesson which ought not to he lost on the House, and if Government could wake out a case to show that assistance was necessary, he thought that what he had stated should act on the House, to induce it not to reject the proposal. Lord Chancellors had always made a rule to boast of what they would do in the way of improvement ; but he did not find that much had in that wa3 , been effected. Lord Bacon, as had been alluded to, had set them examples ; but though he promised, he did not perform anything. In 1620, the state of this Court was in such a position, that it could not be said to have any bearing on the business of the present day; for per haps the House would hardly credit that Sir Edward Coke had stated, that in one year there were 35,000 bills filed ; and though Sir F. Eine had stated that there were only 16,000 subpoenas, this might very well be, as the bills and subpoenas did not in those days necessarily tally. This arose from the Court of Chancery being used in those days for a variety of subjects. He had met with some curious cases in the reign of Henry VI., which would illustrate this. There was one bill filed by an attor ney, praying that the defendant might be restrained by oath from pursuing the plaintiff with witchcraft. There was another in which it was prayed, that the defendant should be restrained from outraging the plaintiff in con sequence of the latter not following certain doctrines ; and a third, which had allusion to violence practised on a maid servant, and which he need not inure fully particu larize. It was a remarkable fact, that in the year 1620 a Bill was introduced into the House of Commons, for the appointment of two assistant Judges from the Court of Chancery ; and during the Commonwealth, it was as tually provided that six Judges should assist that Court in the hearing of appeals ; and one of the ordinances of Cromwell was to the effect that no man's case should wait an instant for hearing, when it was ready ; but the present system of the Court was to hurry a man on to the hearing, and when he was ready for that, he found that the Court was so choaked up with other business, that be was obliged to wait for his opportunity. The regulations of this Court, however, as to business, had certainly received some improvement ; for Whitelock stated, that on those points there was no fixed law. To Chancellors Nottingham and Hardwicke, the country was indebted for very beneficial alterations on that head. One point which at present was very objectionable was, that there was no time afforded to settle a decree ; he could speak from personal knowledge on this subject, for frequently before be could even find time to note down on his brief what the decision of the Judge was, the next cause was hastily called on, and he was obliged to attend to that, the consequence of this was, that the immediate occasion was lost, and then there was some difficulty to know ex actly what the decree of the Court was—besides which this method entailed fresh expense upon the parties. But another ground for the appointment of an additional Judge was, the growing imperaance of the business of the Court. At the present time there were forty millions sterling wait ing to be distributed by the Court—a great portion of which was subject to litigation : it was no doubt true, that much of what was there was placed there because parties did not better know how they might secure themselves, and lie was acquainted with a gentleman in his own profession who—a large fortune having been left to his children—thought that he could not do better than himself filing a bill, by which he placed the funds to which his children were entitled, in Chancery, till they should come of age. It was likewise worthy of remark, that it was impossible to dispose of causes there with that rapidity which was the case in courts of law. Some motions might be got rid of quickly— indeed he had known as many as five-and-forty short causes disposed of in a day ; but then, nil the other hand, others took a much longer time : only as lately as last term there were two causes brought on, one of which lasted seven days, and the other a still longer period ; and yet not a moment was unnecessarily wasted : it was the mass of evidence that was so great ; and he had never witnessed a closer attention on the part of any Judge. It was not this Court that created these difficulties, but it was the Court that had to solve them. Another calve was that of Fuller and Willis, in which an attempt was made to set aside what had been done in the Courts of Jamaica, during the minority of a person. Ira this in stance, the proceedings were of such a nature, that the cause lasted many days, and no one could have shortened it in the least. But the fact was v ery p l a i n l y t hi s : t hd re ne ver was a period when the Court had sufficient force to execute its duty; and when he looked at the enormous increase which had of late years taken place, his only sur p,i„ w a s, that it had been able to execute its business at alt ; and he could not look upon it AS an y t hi ng s h ort o f infa tuation that the Legislature had so c ont i nua ll y re f use d I to afford that assistance which was so absol u t e ly necess+. Formerly there was no business f or the Lord Chancellor, either from Ireland or from Scotland; but now, the Union having taken place ) there were V9llstAilt appeals tn the -~~ 4 fouie of Lords, and who were to attend to:diem ?—tle 'Lord Chan'ee!,, it ~ ,,rtr,-, c i and the annoyance was, that' la, was continually taken fri;tra the Conit of Chancery . for hat purpase, and oldiged to sit in" the tatse of . Lords vmetiires for four or five days in the.week, and. for six lours in - the day. He was permaded that if the House would loa stt the ,vast increase of pei•sondi property is this country, and at the nature i:E {.1 , ): trdsts caused by the a‘uried - ways'in which men of the present time iiqlled.their 'money, they must perceive-sufficient reason for the accu ululation of business in the Court of Chancery ; and he 'need not tell them that there was no Court in which delay .. was so injurious to the iuil,or ! the increase of expence to him was one o f the least of its evils: frequently the nature of the cause was such as to require' a reference for the re port .of the Master; and the .consequence of this was, that I when. the report was returned, the suitor found, 'when he got back, ,that the Court was so clogged up with other business, that frequently-a year or two elapsed before he could again procure an opportunity of being heard.. . The Hon. and Learned Member then referred to the business in the House of Lords, to show that the progress there had been slow at all times.- In 1751, there were eight appeals lodged and only two determined; in 1753, the number of appeals 12, and nine determined : In Lord Thurlow's time in 1775, there were 35 appeals, and 20 determined ;-in in 1779, there were 50 appeals, and 17 determined. There was no greater evil than thus to have the Court of Appeal blocked up, as it made parties who were in the wrong appeal for the very purpose of delay. One great advantage of the previous arrangements was, that appeals were heard in a-much shorter time than formerly. The present Lord Chancellor was now hearing as appeal cases what had been tried last Session, or even during the present See sion.—(Hear, hear.)—This was a satisfaction - to those who had a good cause. Formerly they were discouraged by the probable delay of twenty years from appealing; but now, when they stood a chance of having an appeal decided in a few months, they did not hesitate to appeal. It had been his own lot formerly, in business, very fre quently to advise parties not to appeal, on the ground that there. was no chance of getting a hearing for fifteen or twenty years. The following he stated as the general view of the matter Years. Appeals. I:lce au l s n ed. 1770 to 1775 272 114 1777 to 1780 344 228 P7BO to 1790 223 123 1791 to 1800 290 152 1800 to 1810 492 130 The Hon. and, Learned Member went on to show, tha there had been i t n all the Courts of Equity a great increase of business, and Observed, that there were as many Bills filed in Lord Hardwicke's time as now, but there was not so much business of another description. The late Lord Chancellor did a great deal of business on motions—persons malting a motion before him, from placing great reliance on his judgment, in • order to get his opinion, instead of bringing the cause regularly Before him. Front 1808 to 1816 be had heard 57,063 motions. He'did' not appiove of this mode of doing business; but thet'Judge had been driven to it from necessity. The Hon, and Learned Gen tleman next proceeded to contrast the business of the Court of the Master of the Rolls, under Sir Joseph Jekyll, and under,Sir Wm. Grant, and showed that, under s Sir Wm. Grant, the business • had been nearly doubled in 'qUantity, and lisd increased in importance., He then came to speak of the Vice-Chancellor's Court, that Judge having been first appointed in 1813.. The opinions .of all the_ great men—such as Sir Samtiel Romilly, Lard, Redesdale, and Mr. Cannings--who had spoken or written on the subjeet of creating, that new-Judge, bad turned oust erroneously. Not one of them had at all foreseen what had actually, hap pened. They were all wrong; which was, in his view, a good reason not to place much faith in those now who op posed the present Bill on reasons similar to those which were then urged. :There was one.. error in the Bill for constituting a Vice-Chancellor; and a similar error was to be found in the spt'esent Bill, - though he meant to re= moveit4-that error was, that the Vice-Chancellor was made a dependent Judge on the Lord Chancellor. There was a great deal of difference between -a-subordinate and 'à dependent Judge ; and-though we ought to,have subordi nate judges'," we ought not to have the Judges dependent on one another.. In practice it had not turned- out - an evil, for, in fact, the Vice-Chancellor was not dependent onthe Lord Chancelldr. The business 'which the Lord Chancellor noold net get through, flowed regularly into the Vice-Chancellor's Court. The Hon. and Learned Gen tleman then made several arithmetical statements, to show the great quantity of business which was done by the Vice-Chancellor, but he hurried them over so rapidly, that it was impossible to give them with accuracy. The -con clusion, however, which he drew from the quantity of business performed by' the Vice-Chancellor, was, that if be bad not done it, the Court of- the Lord Chancellor would have been entirely blocked up. Out of 5 ; 504 causes which went before the Vice-Chancellor, there were only 60 appeal., which was a great advantage to the public. All the causes not appealed- from are clear profit to the publie from the appointment of that Court. From. 1813 te,1828 there were only 28 appeals from the Rolls' 'Court find from the Vice-Chancellor's Court to the Lord Chancellor; and this number included the re-hearings by the LOrd Chancellor. Appeals then; were very seldoM ; but the power of appeal was 'of benefit. Having shovin the great quantity of business transacted by the Chancellor's Court, lie contended that the arguMents formerly used against creating it were proofs that those 'who oppose the present Bill were not likely to be sensible of its npesation. If the House would place ' any reliance on him, he could assure it that another Judge was as necessary now as it Was when the Vice-Chancellor was created. He knew that all these details were very dry, but there was no other means of ascertaining the results, and he found his apology for trespassing so long on the House in the fact - that the Legislature multi perform no more important duty than to provide for the adminietra4 tion of justice. That was the first-and . the chief duty of the Legislature. , When the Courts were bad, the people were -made discontented, and he did not know a more ready method to make the people discontented with the Govern. went than not to provide them with good tribunals, where justice should be speedily and readily administered. The Hon. and Learned Member then entered into further details, to show that the present Lord. Chan cellor had heard and decided a great number of ap peals in the House of Lords. The House, in con , sidering the nature of the measure now before it, should recollect that this 'was the Bill of last year, and that it -was the result of the labours of the Com mission appointed to inquire into the state of the Courts of Equity. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman bad declared that the arrears of the Court were greatly diminished. Now what was the real state of the case? In the year when the present Lord Chancellor.. came into office, the number of causes eat down for hearing, in different stages, -were 776, and of these the appeals were 113. In the year 1828, they were reduced to 1784, of which.o were .appeals. In the year 1829 they had increased to 818, of which 95 were appeals ; and in the year 183 A, at Hilary Term, they were 993, of which 84 were appeals, 382 pleas, and 462 causes, in different cases. Se that the business of the Court had not diminished, but increased ; and this was further increased by the fact, that at the time when the Vice-Chancellor was appointed, the arrears before the Court were only 218. He was convinced, indeed, that the greater the facilities for the despatch of the business of the Court were increased, the greater would be the amount of that business ; and sure he was, that if the new Judge was appointed, the number of causes annually brought under the consideration of a Court of Equity would receive a very considerable addi tion. He thought it, indeed, a proposition wholly void of truth, that beoause the business of the Court might be slightly decreased, therefore no new Judge should be appointed. There were many periods in the history of the Court of Chancery, where not a-single cause remained for hearing.; but he did not think that such a despatch of the business of the Court was calcu lated either to satisfy the suitor, or raise the character of the equity jurisdiction. He knew, and had frequently deplored it, that the observations which every man, and those which fell from the Members of that House with respect to the practice of the Court of Chancery, had vet y much lessened the opinion of the character of its Judges, and abated the reverence with which their opinions should be regarded. He had observed this frequently, and it was with him a cogent reason fer the adoption of a measure like the present, which would remove some of the causes of complaint, and allow the Judges to assume their just and proper station in the opinions of the public. Ht knew that the greatest exertions had been made by all the Judges of the Court to get rid of the arrears of business. In bank ruptcy, in particular, the Vice-Chancellor had laboured unceasingly until not one petition, he believed, now re mained undisposed of. That most Learned Judge deserved infinite credit for the manner in which he had got rid of the tax imposed on him. But how had he done it ? Why, by devoting that time which, as holidays, were wisely set apart for obtaining information, and recruiting the bodily and mental powers, by devoting every hour that could be thus snatched from the time allotted for health or recreation to theAespatch of the business in bankruptcy. He was convinced that great mischief, however, had been produced in. Wet branches .of equity, by pushing and goading 00 I.lAslausiness of,the Courts, and he believed no greater bles)gnag could be conferred on the suitors of that Court than the appointment of au additional Judge. Now, • -.., purring to the subject uf the *ash Juristlietion, he might ay : that the business of the Court.of Equity woad be in- Teas, dby ahout fifty causes by the new arrangements. It ;was 5a 7 ,,l at fir- - t, ;imf, indeed, intended, that the Welsh flni , i nee,: i;: Eqei , :; . shiAd'he tt ansictefl in the Exchequer; 'hut a Noble Lord (iSgV'e; We In4eve,) having presented a • • claimingfor the IV '' the rower of petition, root le itheiecauses in a Court of Equity, it was determined Mit to I deny the privilege which. they desired, although so many iothers Niro* Anxious to avoid its exercise. It was intended, therefore, to ailoW the Welsh causes to be determined in Chancery, and this _would Maice en accession of fifty to the general causes of the year. He might say hae that it was not sufficient for the proper administration of justice that ca.it.se iliete determined rightly and speedily, they must :Ilse; bedeterinined to the sai:gfaction, of the contending parties; 'and it should aiWafi lie' recollected ; as Bacon !Mil wisely laid it down, that nothing inVas More mischie vous than for a Judge to draw on his bead rather than to follow the ordinary rules of law. In the King's Bench, where the Honourable Member for Knaresborough . (Mr. Brougham) generally prattiSed, these :rules were generally understood, and invariably followed and he repeated he knew no greater eVil than the existence of arty state of things which should compel the Judges in Equity to follow a different course. When, howevet, the Bill was brought into force, if, as he fondly anticipated it would be, it was intended to divide the Court Of Exchequer, and_ to make that Court,-with ail its present officers and Machinery, a grave Court of Common Law--when this was effected; and a new Judge appointed in Equity, he hoped the accu mulation of arrears in either of the branches of law would be prevented for, ever, and the recommendations of the Commissioners, of which this Bill was one of the results, be rendered really beneficial to the country. Altogether the Lord Chancellor sat 200 days-50 of these were given to Appeah-50 to the House of Lords-35 to Lunacy and other matters of that description—and 65 to general busi ness. Now the new Judge, if appointed, 'Would also sit 200 days ; but 'allowing deductions for peculiar duties, be would have 175 days for the despatch of general business. It was the intention to propose that the new Judge, as well as the Vice-Chancellor and the Master of the Rolls, shOuld be an independent Judge ; but he begged distinctly to express his objection to make the Lerd Chancellor a Judge solely in Appeal. He considered • it, on the cow; trary, a great benefit to the suitor that the Judge in Ap peal should also be engaged in general business, and after giving the subject the most mature deliberation, he was disposed to propose, net only that the Lord Chancellor should continue a Judge in Appeal as well as in general business, but that he should also take with bins in appeal two of the three Judges: the one excluded being the Judge who originally beard the cause. By thus consti tuting a kind of Exchequer Chamber for Appeal, he hoped to put an end to many vexatious and frivolous ap peals brought under the present system, and at the same time very much to diminish the number of appeals to the Lords ; for lie would allow the suitor to appeal either to the• Lord Chancellor and the Judges sitting in this kind of Exchequer Chamber, or to the 'House of Lords, but not in any case to both. This was his plan, and he thought it well worth consideration. After adverting to the state of appeals in the House of Lords, h and proving that they had been reduced, including Irish, English, and Scotch Ap peals, from 95 to 81, since the appointment of Lord Wyn ford to preside there in the absence of the Chancellor, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman proceeded to answer the objections taken by the Learned Gentleman (Sir C. We therell) to the New Bill, respecting the offices of Registrar and Masters in Chancery. The Learned Gentleman' had called ; those Bills. unnecessary ; but he begged to tell the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that unless they cleared away the impediments . which these Bills were intended to remove, by &tering the . condition of the officers of the Court, there would be no use in appointing a new Judge. Unless the minor parts of the Court were better adapted for the despatch t f bthiness, all alteration of the higher would be labour thrown-away. And here he begged to say, that he was authorised by the 4.ord Chancellor to declare that he had no desire to increasNiis patronage in the appointment of Registrars. His, 'Lordship was .per. fectly willing to abandon all his claims on that point, and leave the two new Registrars, whose services were consk dered absolutely necessary for the despatch of the business of the Court, to be appointed by the Judges •of their re spective Courts. This addition to the number of Regis trars, it should he recollected, was also ore of the recom mendations of the Law .Commissioners. It had been re commended that Barristers should be substituted for Re gistrars. . But if the 'House, as he hoped, would allow the Bill-to go into a Committee, he would there show why, in ; his opinion, that proposition ought not to be adopted. With respect to Masters, it was intended to get rid of copy-money, and to substitute fees ; with a view to the rapid discharge-of business. As an individual, he thanked the House for the attention with which they had listened to him, but the subject was. one which, he owned, .demanded their most serious attention. NOthinz could be snore important than to increase the facilities for the dis pensing of jeistiee. It was his firm belief that the Bills on the table w.onld greatly facilitate that object, as connected with the Court or Chancery; and a greater boon could not be conferred on the country. • Mr. C. FERGUSSON said, that as it was impossible at that hour to continue the debate beneficially, he would move as an amendment to the original motion, that the further consideration of the question be adjourned to Tuesday. After a short conversation, in which Mr. Brougham, Sir Robert Peel, the Attorney-General, and Mr. Fergusson participated, the amendment was agreed to. HYDROPHOBIA. Mr. Alderman WOOD, having obtained leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the spreading of canine madness, brought in the which was read a first time, and or dered to be read a second time on Tuesday. EX-OFFICIO INFORMATIONS. Sir C. WETHERELL gave notice, " That on the 17th of June he would move for leave to bring in a Bill to limit the power of the Attorney-General to file Ex officio Informations." The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and at Three o'clock this morning the House adjourned. THE ARMY. (From the *limerick Chronicle of Saturday.) The 6Sth Regiment march in divisions this week from Fermoy, to replace the 69th, ordered to Dublin from Athlone. A detachment of the 68th is ordered, under Lieutenani Durnford, to Shannonbridge. • Major Gun has taken the command of the detachment of the 56tb, at Cashel. Captain Barton's company of the 36th Regiment have arrived at Mitehelstown to do duty. An application is about to be made to the Lord Lieute nant to quarter a military force in Listowel. In conse quence of the profound peace existing there the soldiery were lately withdrawn from that town. J. Crawford, Esq., is appointed Assistant-Surgeon on the Staff of the Medical Department at Cork, and Dr. J. Sheils, Hospital Assistant. Captain Gipps, R. E., is appointed Commanding Officer• of Engineers at Sheerness, vice Lieut.-Colonel Thompson. Lieut. Tallow, 41st regiment, is appointed superintend ant of the Recruiting Service at Glasgow, vice Lieut. Dickson, 67th, removed to Edinburgh. Captain Wetherall, 13th Light Dragoons, is appointed Deputy Judge Advocate-General to his Majesty's Forces at the Madras Presidency, vice Lieutenant-Colonel Wetherall, who resigns. Major Hartley is appointed Barrack Master of Cape Town, Cape of Good Hope, vice Henry Hanson, Esq., and J. Tudor is appointed to the English Barrack de partment. F. Anquetil, from Hull, is appointed Barrack Master at Algoa Bay, and C. Lynch, from the Irish department, Barrack Muter at Sierra Leone.. Lieut. E. Marley is appointed Barrack Master at Gibraltar, and A. G. Carte, Barrack Master at Hull. Joseph Farnden, Esq. is appointed surgeon to the Royal Hibernian School, Dublin, Captain Sadleir, 47th Regiment ; Lieutenant Henry, 17th Regiment ; and Lieutenant Campbell, Queen's Bays, are entered students of the Royal Military College, Sand hurst. All the East India Company's pensioners in the Cork districts are to be paid their half-yearly pensions the 20th instant, at the Company's Recruiting-office, Douglas street, Cork. BATH, THE RESIDENCE OP ROMAN Em- PEROICS.—The Romans, characteristically luxurious in their baths, and choosing their situations with the most scrupulous care, were not likely to neglect the advan tages which such a neighbourhood presented. The mild ness of the air, and the lovely amphitheatre of hills which surrounds this valley of waters, would tend still farther to delight then with the station—the best counterpart of their own Italy which the uncultivated land afforded—and we accordingly learn, from the best accredited accounts, that it shortly became the favourite residence of the Roman Governors, and sometimes of the Emperors. —Dr. - Laid • ner's CaLinet Cyclopadia. '4';'„a" 1 4 1 JiltairT r 1 • ri SPIRIT OF; THE _ PUBL/Q, jOURNA I,S.9 The .work of Government-eoncesSion in tiSie Netherlands has advanced more rapidly, and pro- . ceeded to greater fengthsvtban could have been lately anticipated. At the opening of the States General in October last, the Belgic provinces were in a state of violent ferment, from one end to the !other. The cause of this alarming agitation wns the. ileged tyranny and apprehended eneroaehments'a ► Ministry selected from the friends of the King, it the northern or Dutch provinces, and opposed, from 'religious prejudices, party views, or national anti "oatliie,:, to the ecclesiastical establishments and po: itical interests of the . south.- . Petitions were pre , pared in almoit every .parish, complaining.of grit v anees, and demanding- redress. It is said that to these petitions were attached more than a quarter of a million of signatures. , The chief topics of . complaint were the unjust distribu tion of places and offices, between the in habitants of the Dutch and ..Belgic pro vinces,—the interference of a Protestant Govern.; .vent in the direction' of Catholic ischOola and edu ation—the severe judgments passed on persons accused of libel, and the shackles threatened to be imposed on the freedom of the press—the absence of a law to make the Ministers responsible for their acts—the severe and unequal pressure of taxation— old lest, though not least, the arbitrary imposition of the Dutch language on those parts of the mo narchy where French was generally or exclusively spoken. The effect of these numerous complaints and acknowledged grievances nn the popular branch of the Legislature Was to excite an over-mastering to the Government, and to cause a tern- 7 porary refusal of the supplies. The Belgic De puties almost to a' man opposed the, budget, and converted the.States-General into an arena, where the representatives of ,the people com bated each other, not as ,individuals of dif 7erent opinions,- but as delegates of rival ni1... , An unnatural union was . formed -between ions. liberals and bigots, between devotees and infidels, to oppose the King's Dutch servants; and the work of amalgamation between the different provinces; whiih the judicious and excellent Monarch of the Nether lands had been endeavouring to accomplish for the last 1.5 years, was' suddenly arrested. It was then chat his Majesty saw his danger,and that prudent concession began. The budget , was presented in a modified shape (with the most: obnoxious taxes com muted for imposts less objectionable), and passed nearly unanimously. A Belgian Minister or two were brought into the Cabinet, so as to give the in terests of the southern provinces • their Atte weight in the Royal Councils. The project of law on public instruction, having been found objectionable in the sections or committees of the States-General, ,was withdrawn, under an engagement to revise it, and present it again in an improved form. The law on the press was thrice modified by 'the 'Court, and made at test to meet theviewe of thegreat majorityof the Cham bers. The Philosophical College of Louvain; which was really intended by the King to elevate the chortle , ter of the Catholicclergy, by conferring on thetandi- fates for the .priestloOd i more libiral education than they could receive at the episcopal seminaries, has been abolished as a sacrifice to the prejudices of the Belgic prelacy; and—what must have cost the King the greatest pang, thongh, perhaps, the most necessary of all the concessions which he has made, even the decree enforcing the general use'of• the Dutch or Flemish language, has been abrogated or modified. Though the motive for this attempt it changing the language of a people is- justifiable enough, no measure could Create ''greatel incon venience, or lead to greater oppression. In the Statei-General it could not be enforced—in society it could not be enforced—at Court it was not at tempted to be executed. In the courts of law it em barrassed every proceeding, and was liable to every abuse. The indictment was read in Dutch, to a 'Belgian who understood only French ; the deposi tions were taken in Dutch, and the•pleadings were delivered in the same language. The unlucky Belgian of the south might have the whole proceedings trans lated if lie chose, and an interpreter was as necessary in every tribunal and at every' trial, a's a judge ore counsel. But the hardship must be gieet to compel judge, counsel, witness, and party, to use a language with which they are imperfectly. acquainted, instead of that to which they are accustomed, and which is Token by every man, woman; and child beyond the walls of the court in which the trial is going on I It would certainly be desirable to make the two 'di visions of the kingdom speak the same tongue, and to detach the Belgians from 'France by renouncing French; but such an object cannot . be accomplished in a few years, or by a royal decree. Nothing, it must be owned, can be more ludicrous in atdelibere live assembly like the States-General, than to hear one orator delivering a 'Dutch harangue, which his Belgian antagonist cannot understand, while the latter replies in a French oration, of Which the former may be equally ignorant. The inter preter steps in between them, but the eloquence .nust evaporate in the transfusion from one language another. Such a state of things can only be changed by time and the formation of national at tachments. The hareh, and imp o liti c s entence of exile against M. de Potter and ,his friends, has been carried into execution. We mentioned at the time when it was pronounced, that it would create a pre judice against the Government without adding to its security, for that the exiles had only tops, the Belgic frontier and to fix their lever in the,soil of France, to move thi tninds of their 'own country men more powerfully than before. Th. Govern ment foresaw this evil, and induced the Fietich Minister to refuse passports.t• The prisoners hive therefore been deported to Hanover at 'their own choice, but can they be retained in that kingdom, where, we presume, the Dutch police cannot follow them ?—Times. The diecussions in the Commons last night. were long, but no result of any consequence followed.— Some additional papers relative, to the Greek ques tion were moved 'for, and readily granted ;_ the only one refused being, as it appears to us, Withheld 'on sufficient grounds. The Equity Bill was stre nuously, opposed by Sir Quirfrs Wetherell, in one of his most amusing, and,* . - to use a phrase of his own " omnigentsun and heteroclite" apaeclies. It was 'supported by 'the Solicitor-General' in a very elaborate' and well-digested argument. The debate was postponed till Tuesday. ABill for abating the cause' of the frightful calamity of canine_ inidness was read a first time.—=Time.. •1 Last night. Mr. O'Connell brought before the Rouse a subject of great importance to Ireland—the Laws under which Parish Vestries assess Rates for the rebuilding and enlarging of Churches and Chapels, for the repairing of the Chancel of Churches, and for providing things necessary for this celebra tion of Divine Service. It is agreed on all hands that great abuses are committed under these laws, for even the Chancellor of the Exchequer admitted that the law required revision, and only contended that it was once much worse than now. ‘' In England," said Mr. O'Connell, ' 4 the mass of the population being Protestants, were not obliged to build churches; but in Ireland, when the great mass were Catholics, they were compelled to build churches for the Protestants. The object of the Bill for which he was about to move, would be to place the people of Ireland on the same footing as the people of England with respect to the building and repairing of churches—that is, to place the people of Ireland under the protection of the Com mon Law with respect to that subject, in the same manner as the people of England now are pro tected." The law does not, however, seem to be on the best possible footing in England. Al though new churches in the latter country can only be built under the Act of Parliament; yet too much latitude is allowed to churchwardens in ordering repairs. Ira Scotland the matter is much simplified by the whole of the expense of buildi ng and repairing of churches being thrown on the Land holders, who are allowed to repair or pull down and rebuild - churches, subject to the controul of the Presbytery (a Court eenT9ittcl of the Clergy end I 0