The Sun. — London, England, 1830-06-09 00:00:00

justice its not 'talked of, but those who foresaw the tonsfjpiertc4, which had since ensued, were treated as viMoaries, and their predictions scouted 'will utter disregard. He would affirm that faith had been violated by the standard of 1819 ; taxes payable subsequently were unjust impositions; for no tax could be just which was not consented to by the people or by their Representatives; and in the cases of those taxes it was impossible there could be any consent, seeing that they could have bad no knowledge of the amount. They could not—that is, the great mass of the people, could not tell what would be the value of money ; for the money of 1819 was not the money of 1797. In the early part of ,the last century gold had sunk in value, and at another period silver had fallen : then one rose and then the other; and as those changes took place, the people found it their interest sometimes to pay their debts in one metal, sometimes in another, according to the changes in their value ; and now the interest of the people was if possible to discharge their obligations in paper, for the debtor always sought to discharge his obliga tions in the cheapest possible manner that the law will allow.—(Of this principle the Hon. Member gave some practical illustrations, but hTs voce so frequently fell, that we found it impossible closely to pursue the course of his observations either then, or at other parts of his speech.)—He proceeded to observe that the advance of gold was not peculiar to this country; that it had taken place in France and elsewhere, and that what had occurred with re spect to it, as well as other circumstances in the condition of the country, into which he entered at considerable length, led him to the opinion that a double standard would be likely to afford the country considerable relief—would give relief to the landed interest, and would advance the wages of labour. The Hon. Member next proceeded to notice the measures taken in 1816 to protect the new silver coinage from being melted down ; it was fixed at ss. Gd., and for its protection qd. was taken off its value, so as to render melting it an unprofitable operation; so much of its value was taken awe), and then it became a token coin age, and not one of intrinsic values It happened, however, that this coinage could be imitated in other countries so perfectly that the deceit could not be detected, and in a distant part of the country not less than 80,000/. had accumulated, and that evi dently at a loss to this country. At the present moment gold was beyond the price of silver; and if the average of the five years ending 1785 were compared with the average of the five years ending 1830, it would be found that the difference was as much as 13 and 14 per cent.; and if the twenty years ending 1785 were compared with the twenty years ending 1830, it would be found that the dif ference was as much as 111 per cent. In all cases he would maintain that the policy of England had been to maintain a silver standard. In the reign of Elizabeth the statesmen of that period maintained the old standard, and dealt with gold as the conve nience dictated. In the reign of King William the practice was the same, though the gold rose as much as 39 per cent. in value : in all the variations of the value of gold the silver standard was uniformly ad hered to, yet the Legislature of England, at a most distressing period, bound the burdens of the country by that most astringent standard, of which Mr. Locke had said that it was not, and should not, be the money of the world. When, in 1819, a metallic standard was inflicted upon paper obliga tions, the country knew nothing of what was being done ; --the most valuable part of the community, and those best acquainted with their own concerns, knew nothing of the injury they were exposed to, and that was an ignorance of which the House largely partook ; and by an immitigable, blind, remorseless fatality, they could not deviate from the course which led them to trample upon the ruined farmer, to confiscate a large portion of the landed property of the country, and to drive the agricultural ►abourer to pauperism and crime, and all the other appalling occurrences by which the history of this country had been since distinguished. Was it fit, he would ask, that in legislating under such circumstances, upon such a subject the House should, abandoning the more than a Roman con stancy by which it was previously governed, all at once acknowledge itself the slave of political expe diency ? The Hon. Gentleman again recurred to the ancient standard, observing, that it was neither gold nor silver, nor both, but coin of a certain quality, protected by laws wWels made its export highly penal, as well as its increase by any importations. It was well known that an abundance of money led to its being of low value. The object of those by whom the laws for its protection were enacted, was to keep the quantity of money in circulation free from very violent fluctuations—the evil of which, those who lived in the present times had a right most loudly to complain. It was only inasmuch as bullion was money that it had re fere►►ce to this question, and when it was separated from that it ceased to be a measure for tnonev, and was only just as all other commodities might be.— The value of mocey was to be ascertained from the general pike of commodities, or if one particular standard was to be rased, it ought to be that of corn, which all eminent writers on the subject had taken as the best single standard that could be adopted, as it was always found that corn most cor responded with the money price of labour. Corn, during the Restriction Act, greatly advanced in price ; and a variety of reasons—all but the right one—were given for this. But if any of these rea sons had been right, it was evident that a similar advance in price would have taken place at any pre vious period when the same circumstance occurred ; and yet at no time previously was it found that corn ever rose to above 505.; and therefore all above that amount was to be ascribed to the paper depre• ciation. When the House thought fit to adopt the course of requiring the ,country to pay the contracts that were made in paper currency in a metal cur rency, it was certainly within the power of the Le gielature to make such an arrangement ; but how the burthen was to be borne, depended on a power greater than any act of Parliament—it depended on the laws of nature. By such an arrange ment as thin, the whole moneyed value of the country became changed. This fact rested on no doubtful basis; and lie knew no better course that he could take to prove that, than to refer to past experience; for that would establish, beyond con tradiction, that no distress had existed but what was produced by this evil. And in the first place, let them go back to the time of war—the period when paper debts were paid in paper. The prosperous condition of the country, then, with respect to the main interests connected with it, was undeniable, and never was there a period when it was more commensurate to bear the burthens which that war entailed upon it. The depreciation of the money at that time gave a stimulus to the production of in dustry ; but when the peace came, Parliament put an end to that depreciation : nay, it even did more; for it passed an Act to force back the value of mcney to the period of 1797. That Act required that the en gagements of the period of the war should be paid in the old standard; or, in other words, that the standard of 1797 should be applied to all those en gagements. This being the case, he begged to call the attention of the House to the character of that Act of Parlatment.. In December,lBo3, the Bank Restriction Act was raade perpetual during the war, and the consequence of this was, the providing one standard J .,. for the time of war,. and another for the time of peace; for it was to be observed that paper-money might be debased by quantity just as metal money was abased by adulteration; and, therefore, in the course that was pursued, in leaving it to individuals to judge how much paper circulation they would have in the country, it was just as if it should have been proposed to take the metal money out of the hands• of the Government, and put it lute those of individuals, to whom was given the power to de base and adulterate it as much as their interests dic tated. Nor was this all ; it was just as if Government had said to them, the more You debase it the more we will encourage you—the more you depreciate the more we ss•il► go on with pensions and places, to meet the abundanCe; and to windup the whole, the remedy thut we will devise For all this shall be, that at the end of the war, whether in 10, 15, or 20 years, we will now pledge ourselves, or any future Parliament, without inqUiring into'what the depreciation may be, to bring hack the whole of its original standard. That then was the character of that Act of Parliament, and he would venture to say that that Act of Par liament stood in the history of the Legislature as unparalleled for all that was monstrous and absurd. But it might have been passed in ignorance; proba bly it was so passed, for the Legislature of that day could not have suspected such a meaning in the Act as that which was now ascribed to it. Indeed, eight years after the passing of it, the Legislature professed its ignorance on this subject, for in 1811 one of the resolutions of the House expressed its opinion that it did not believe that there was any difference between paper money and metal money. This, then, being the case, and the act in question being in the shape of a contract, he was prepared to contend that as such it was only to be interpreted according to the original intention of its framers. Taken in the other sense, several difficulties presented themselves; and, in the first place, the question . . _ of how we were to obtain gold presented itself.— During the war, the nations on the Continent had bought all our gold, and for the last supply had given as much as .5/. 12s. an ounce; and yet there was an Act to provide that we should purchase it at 3/. I7s. 10Id. What, he should like to know, was there to induce the Continent to bring back gold to us at that price ? Besides which, it was to be observed that anything which produced a violent action in gold had a corresponding effect upon all other property. But it was said that there had been great distress in England at different periods.— He knew that there had, and that the severest dis- tress was experienced by the manufacturing interests. In January, 1817, just when the distress was most acutely felt, the subject was introduced to the House by the Hon. and Learned Member for Knares borough, who took occasion to observe " that there was a portentous difference between this and former wars, for now our calamities began with the peace, and the distress from year to year was getting worse. At first the agriculturists suffered—then it extended itself to all classes—and it had now reached a crisis wholly unprecedented since the period of the Nor man conquest." To this succeeded the prosperity of 1818, and from the evidence given by the Go vernor of the Bank of England, it was apparent that this was owing to the increased circulation issued by the Bank at that period. In January, 1819, the Prince Regent stated, in his Speech from the Throne, that the trade, commerce, and manufac tures of the country, were in a most flourishing con dition; but at the end of that Session, the Speech from the Throne was to a very different effect. The expressions then were that a spirit bad been mani fested utterly hostile to the Constitution of the kingdom, and aiming not only at the change of that Constitution, but at the conversion of the rights of property ; and then the King called on the Parlia ment to protect the Constitution against the assaults of that vet) , people who, in the time of the war, when Europe and America were combined against this country, had formed its firmest bulwarks. These were things that claimed attention, for they were not unconnected with the distress that took its origin from the adoption of the metal currency. The prosperity of 1824 and 1825 was not consistent with the metal standard of 1819, for by the year 1825 there was not a sovereign left in the bank; and if the system had been pursued, there would not have been a sovereign left in the country. — The fact was, that the security of the standard was balanced against the security of the country, and the former was preferred. It was by an additional issue of four millions from the Bank that the prosperity of those years was occasioned; and in February, 1825, the King, in his speech, observed, that there never was a period before in which all the great interests of the country had been in so thriving a posture. And yet, now there was not one of those great interests that had spirit enough to support itself; and if they looked for the cause of this, it was, that a metal standard had driver► prosperity for the productive classes from the country. But though this was the speech in February, 1825, in March the Bank saw the neces sity that was pressing upon them—for what was danger to the currency was danger to the Bank ; and they gradually began to withdraw the increased circulation—first, 1,300,0001.; then 700,0001.; and, finally, another sum, so as to make altogether 3,500,0001., was deducted, so that little of the four remained;millions and the consequence was, that the same distress that had pervaded the country in 1822 was re-established. The cause of the present transient revival of trade was attributa&e to the same cause; but already the Bank was beginning to feel it, and they would be obliged to withdraw a portion of the circulation; for if the Bank would enter into a pledge that the present State paper (and he could not call it any thing else) should be continued for two years, he would take upon him self to say, that there would be no more distress among the productive classes, but that it would be on the Bank and the metal standard instead, for the two could not exist together. With respect to the withdrawal of the one-pound notes, he thought that the entire measure was objectionable; because, if they were introduced to a certain extent, it would be the means of relieving the metal standard to a certain extent. For the observations which he had made to the House he should not offer any apology, because the subject was of that paramount importance, that he was well convinced that the time of the House could never be better bestowed than in the consideration of this subject; and, with respect to the measure he had to .propose to the House, he would rest it on the grounds of justice, necessity, policy, anti truth. The lion. Gentleman concluded by moving two resolutions. The sub stance of the first was, that it was expedient to re peal so much of the 59th Geo. 111. c. 58, as went to declai e that gold only should be the legal tender in all money engagements. The resolution, as we understood, also went to repeal so much of the Act as prohibited the issue of notes under 51.; but the Ilor. Gentleman read his resolutions so indis tinctly that it was almost impossible to catch their purport in the gallery. Mr. E. DAVENPORT regretted nothing in the able speech which had just been delivered but that it was too discursive. He contended that the pre sent standard had nothing to recommend it but the assertions of Ministers. That standard was also an innovation on the previous practices of the country. Silver w as, according to Mr. Locke, the universal measure of value, and gold only a commodity. He could support this view also, by the evidence of the Ministerial Member fur Callington—(A laugh)— who had described our adherence to the gold standard as pedantic and injurious.—Nothing was more un just than to lower the rate of profit and prices here, to the rate of profit and prices on the Conti. nent. The adoption of the gold standard was re ducing the prices here to a level with prices on the Continent. What made it more injurious was, that it enhanced taxation, while adopting a silver stan dard would at once relieve the burdens of taxa tion to the amount of 6or 7 per cent. Other na tions, such as Venice and France, had tried to esta blish a gold coinage, and had failed; but Bona parte, he believed, who had given a premium on gold coin, had more power than any Chancellor of the Exchequer. It would be less easy, then, for Eng land to do this, which gave no premium to keep gold at home, and had less power to retain it, than it was for France. The present system also placed the na tion at the mercy of speculators in gold. It had been lately seen that the money broker's house had reduced the House of Austria to dependence on it, and had contracted all its operations, degrading that illustrious House, because it tried to borrow in another money-broker's shop. Another topic to which he would refer was the great diminution of the quantity of metals produced by the mines of South America. Silver was reduced, he believed, 4-stlis in amount,.and gold was reduced still more in quantity. Notwithstanding this lessened produc tion of the mines, silver had come much more into Use than formerly—increasing the pressure felt by the want of the precious metals as coin. The Hon.' Member then referred to the opinions of Lord Liverpool and Sir Robert Peel, to show that Ands ters had professed a desire to return to the ancient standard of value, which, he contended, was either silver or gold ; for that was the standard before 1797. He called on the Ministers to make their words good, and not adopt as the ancient standard, a standard which was, in fact, an exacerbation of it to the amount of 80 per cent. He thought Minis ters were at least bound, therefore, to support the first Resolution of the Hon. Member, and he hoped they would remember their former words, and with the Hon. Mover call for a restoration of the real ancient standard. The Resolutions were then put from the Chair. Mr. BERRIES and Mr. BAntNe; rose together to address the House, but the former gave way, and Mr. BARING went on to say, that the two re solutions of his llon. Friend were essentially dif ferent—one related to the revival of the small notes, the other to the use of a concurrent standard ; and it would be very difficult to show that this concur rent standard of the two metals was not the old standard of the country. After a debate of four days •on the distress of the country, it was some what extraordinary that what caused the peculiar state of things of which all complained was not very clearly explained. In his opinion the altera tion' of the currency accounted for every thing. When the value of money increased, that was shown by a general fall of prices, and this was the cause of that distress, which began among the upper, and ex tended to all classes. The prosperity we had expe- . . _ rienced during the war, was owingto an opposite cause. The cause then was, that every man of business who went to sleep at night, found himself when he woke in the morning richer than he was. Nothing was more influential on the property of the people than this continual rise in the value of their property. They were all continually getting richer. Now, dur . ng the last fifteen years, the very reverse of this had been going on. The farmers, the mer chants, capitalists of every description, had seen their property decreasing in value year after year. On balancing their books at the end of six months, or twelve months, they found their capital shrinking, falling away, and that they were less wealthy than they were. They were filled with despondency, and with all the feelings of going to decay. No doubt that this was the effect of the alteration of the currency, which began with the resolution to get rid of the paper currency and return to a metallic stan dard, and of which the last act was the getting rid of the one and two pound notes. It was satisfac tory to be able to ascertain the cause of our distress, for that might lead to avoiding it in future. It arose from touching the currency, from tampering with the standard—(llear, hear,)—from altering the measure of value, which had put to hazard and ex posed to great risk all the property of the country, and all its interests. '1 he ‘vitisdrawal of the small notes had, he believed, caused a considerable increase of our difficulties. It was not so much the amount of that paper in circulation as the facility it gave to carry on trade in the country. It . encouraged country bankers—it established a local circulation, and gave a great ficility for carrying on country trade. The general currency, on the contrary, tended to bring the whole circulation towards Lombard-street; it was, perhaps, an advantage for London, but it was injurious to the country— (llear)—the withdrawal of the small notes'had the• added to the distress. At the same time he was impressed with the great difficulty of maintain ing our standards of value as long as they formed a large part of our circulation; and being sensible of that, he was willing to make a sacrifice far the advantage of being able to maintain, in time of pressure, our standard of value ❑naltered. When he remembered what happened in 1525, and the different panics, he was doubtful how far we should be able to maintain our stand with many small notes in circulation. The examples of Ireland and Scot land were certainly conclusive us to the possibillty, but it was difficult to say how far that could be with safety extended. Paper money might be al lowed in one English county—it could not be limited to Scotland ; but the wider it was extended, the more difficult' it would make the maintenance of our metallic standard in time of pressure. It had been argued that the solvency of the hankers who failed in 1825—a great proportion of them having paid in full—was a proof that there was no danger from a paper circulation ; but, in his view of the matter, the solvency of these bankers was an argu ment against the system. If it overthrew those who had property to meet the demand on them, was not that a proof of its being dangerous? ills Hon. Friend proposed to repeal the law for pre venting the issue of one pound and two pound notes, which, in his view, might be some ►vhat hazardous. To that part of the Resolutions he was not disposed to accede. The other object proposed by his Hon. Friend was of very great importance, and on it he would say a few words. His Hon. Friend's proposition was, that the silver standard should be con current with the gold standard. That was a measure which, in the first place, would cause some depreciation; and, in the second place, it might be right to inquire if this depreciation would be justified. It might then be considered what would be its effcct in preserving our me tallic standard, and he must at once say for himself that he thought it would greatly improve our chance of main taining our standard. As to the extent to which it would cause depreciation, that he thought would be perfectly jus tified. The alteration would not extend beyond five per cent., which, as it would increase the facility for preserv ing the standard, would nut be a disadvantage. The Hon. Member then entered into a brief history of our currency, to show that up to 1797, silver and gold. had been equally the standard of the country. The Act of 1798 went to suspend the coinage of silver, until that al- teration, through the means of a Committee, was effected, which alteration, in consequence of the introduction of a paper circulation and other circumstances, never 'actually took place. The case then, as be apprehended, stood thus :—Up to 1798, the debtor had the power to tender a payment in either gold or silver, but after that time it was suspended by the Act to which he alluded, and it was not until the year 1816 that the suspension of 1798 was declared, by Act of Parliament, to be a permanent exclu sion of silver from the legal tenders of the country. He said now, then, give us the same standard as that which existed before the suspension of 1798 ; give us, he would say, that power of paying either in gold or silver, which existed before 1798, and which was suspended un til the coinage could be put on a better footing. It might be said, however, and h.: did not deny its truth, that the difference between the gold and the silver pay ment would be full five per cent., and that those who thus obtained the power to pay in [dyer would gain five pounds in every hundred which they paid to their credi- tors. But if, in the present circumstances of the country. and looking to the tremendous changes which had taken place, all adjustment of the claims of those who had con tracted engagements in the depreciated currency was de nied them, then he would say that those who refused this adjustment could not deny that the taking off five per cent. in this way was a fair method of making the debtor some remuneration for his less. Considering that England was the only country in the world where such a standard as that of gold exclusively was to be found, and that any other country on earth had, in some way or other, admitted both metals for that purpose, he confessed that he should not regret to see that change take place, if it was merely to arrive at that favourable conclusion for the debtor which he had before described. lie thought, too, that if the old standard was adopted, that standard which those who clung to antiquity must surely approve of, there would be much less probability of those derangements of our monetary system which a sudden change of circumstances might now produce. He knew that these things were much bet-- ter understood by calm examination in the closet, than by explanation in that House by evidence before a Com mittee ; but still he thought that such an examination would do much to prepare them in readiness for the alter ation. In reference to the silver standard, he would just make an observation on a part of the question which in volved an objection, plausible enaugh at first, but, in his mind, totally illusory and unsatisfactory. It was said, then, by the theorists and the philosophers—he meant them no offence when he called there so—that if you take the two metals as a standard of value, you expose your self to all the variations which at all times prevail be tween these two things which you have adopted as a standard. The object of a standard, they say, is fixity, and by adopting the two metals, you take things which vary with respect to each other; whereas, by taking any use, you have a standard free from any such oljection. Now it a s'ngu'ar thing, that thom who stirtel this objection should have forgotten the example of France, whose inge nious and scientific men had applied themselves much to le question of the variation of the two metals, and who, Although they were acquainted with this objection of the theorists, had surmounted sll the difficulties it presented, and preserved the double standard with all its objections. It was still more strange, however, that these theorists should not see, that if they looked at the whole medium of circulation, they would find the variations greater in it than any which could tike place between the two metals. They would find, in fact, that the variability of the two metals in reference to each other, was as a mere drop of water in the ocean compared with the variations which frequently tock place in the circulating medium itself. Look, for instance, at the Bank of England circulation. Look at the extensions and withdrawals of circulation in the year 1825, and they would find that the variations of that period amounted to full 25 per cent. It was for these and similar reasons, and from the feelings he enter- ...... tained on this subject, that he felt bound to vote for the second resolution of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Attwood). He adopted that course, too, that he might mark his opinions on the question, although he confessed he would prefer, if he had his choice, recommending the whop question to be referred to a Committee. lie could not quit this snlqee! without referring, however, to the opinions once delivered by a Minister of England, with respect to the two stan ddrds. He admitted that from the manner in which that great commercial company generally conducted their busi ness, he was not disposed to place much reliance on their statements as authority ; but it was different with the statements of individual Members, and there could be no question that the experience and ability of Mr. Harman, the gentleman to whose evidence he alluded, was entitled to the greatest attention. Mr. Harman expressly declared then, that if he could be brought to believe there was a sufficiency of gold for the circulation of the whole of the United Kingdom, he should think the gold standard the preferable one; but, as it was otherwise, he was inclined to favour the proposition for making silver also a standard. For his (Mr. Baring's) part, he thought an unlimited paper circulation the greatest evil which could fall on a country ; and as he was anxious that, it any such event a 4 war did come, it should find us prepared to meet its difficulties, without having recourse to, such a device as a paper currency, he thought the admission of the two metals as a standard a thing to be desired. Mr. HERRIES had listened with great attention to the speeches of the Hon. Members for Callington (Att wood and Baring); and although he admitted their great ability, he confessed he could not see that they had brought forth any new facts, or elicited any new arguments. The plain question, in his apprehension, to be found in the whole case, rested on this—were they to have a double standard? And were they to have that standard at such a rate and proportion as it would be nearly impossible for them to attain? That was the question, and he contended that the impassibility formed a material portion of the proposition.—(Hear, hear.) It was asserted that prior to, and in the year 1797, gold and silver were a legal tender. Without admitting that to be so—and he would prove by and by that it was not so—it formed a material portion of the argument, that relief was to be obtained for the delitor by raising the depreciated rate of silver to a level with that of gold, in the same manner as it was said to have been before the year 1798. This was the whole of the argument of the Hon. Member who spoke last (Mr. Baring). That Hon. Member said there was a difference between silver and gold to the extent of five per cent. He (Mr. Herries) took no credit to himwlf when be admitted that difference to exist in every country in the world. It w is, indeed, a thing universally known, and the subject Of numerous regulations. He would allow the Hou. Member to tike the difference as five per cent., although he believed it not to he so much. What then was the proposition ? To what extent did the Hon. Member, who was as capable as any Member of that House to follow a question of that kind through all its bearings, what did he propose ? Why, to make silver and gold an equally legal te:ider, although he declared in the same breath that the difference between them was full five per cent, He begt.eil to tell the Hon. Member that such a proposition was never before heard of in that House.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had taken the trouble to trace with care the proceedings of our ancestors, and lie had explained the manner in which they adjusted the difference between the pre cious metals. He had admitted the difficulty of doing so with succes-. He knew that unless they adjusted the proportions of the two with great nicety at al times, the c:aantry must lose one of them, and ye he now said, in opposition to the doctrine of Sir Isaac Newton—indeed he derided all that—he sent it forth as his opinion that such metals should be a legal tender, and that the debtor should be allowed to pay in either of them if he pleased. Now what would be the first effect of such a system? The Hon. Member had admitted it with great frankness, illogical it was, and he had declared the effect to he an immediate reduction of five per cent. on all claims, and that all creditors would obtain five per cent. less by the tender in silver. That would be the result of his plan, if lie could get over the difficulty of putting it in execution. But what was that difficulty? Had the Hon. Gentleman considered it? If they were to determine on such a proceeding, it might require, perhaps, a month to make it an act of the Legislature, but in two days the announcement of their intention would be carried to the remotest part of the kingdom, that every one who had a debt of 100!. due to him would run a risk of losing 51. if he waited for a month before he demanded it. What then would be the consequence—what would become of the Bank of England—of the country banks? Why there was scarcely an individual in the kingdom able to p;iy all demands on him on the instant. First come, first served, would be the rule of the day, and the mere attempt to change the standard with such a difference between the metals, would produce ruin and confusion in every part of the country. The Hon. Member (Mr. Baring) had con tended that they had the liberty to make payments in silver, if they pleased, before 1788 ; and he desired to re turn to the old regulation. He (Mr. Herries) denied that there was any such power to pay in silver, either by weight or by tale. Mr. BARING said, across the table, that they had such a power ; and all he contended for was a revival of the ancient system. Mr. BERRIES contended that the law even then re strained the creditor from paying more than 251. in silver, either by weight or tale. Mr. ATT WOOD thought it necessary to set the Right Hon. Gentleman right on this subject. By the law before 1798, silver was a legal tender up to 251. without weight, and to any other extent afterwards with weight. Mr. BERRIES begged the Hon. Member to perceive that this regulation rendered it impracticable to make any large payments an silver, because it was so deteriorated it could not be tendered by weight ; and therefore the argu inent of the adoption of a double standard now being a return to the system of 1798, was wholly inapplicable.— After observing it was singular that this kind of double standard, through the whole of the last century, never affected the price of commodities, the Right Hon. Gentle man proceeded to say he was not one of those who held apprehensions respecting the consequences of the adieu- lion of silver as a standard. On the contrary lie con fessed that he thought if it could be rendered available as a standard of value, it might produce many advan tages. He thought it possible, indeed, to accomplish that object without 'much danger. It was an error to suppose that silver and gold were taken as a double standard in those countries which were held forth as an example to England. The two metals were allowed to circulate together, and she difference of value was settled at particular times, and called ogio; but it was an error to suppose that practically the two metals were taken as a standard of value. If, then, he was called on to say what regulation could he beneficially adopted in a country where paper is already a legal trade, lie would say that some of the d:fficulty might be got rid of by making silver a tender for a moiety of a debt. So that if a d btor proposed to pay one moiety in silver, the creditor might demand the other moiety in a different standard. This was, however, mere matter of speculation at present. The question they had to consider was, whether it was expedient to relieve the debate by depreciating the standard of value. The Hon. Member for Callington (Baring), it was true, said they would merely return to what they had before in 1798 ; but he was very much afraid that if they went the length of mitigating the evil a little, it would not be long before they would be compelled to do much more. When the Hon. Member for Callington bad achieved his return to the system of 1798, it would nut be long, be suspected, till the - Hon. Member for Essex (Western) would return to the charge. If, in the face of all experience, they were to permit such a political relapse, they could not antici pate any thing but the return of that panic and national distress which they had now so fortunately weathered, but which had at one time threatened the destruction of all public and private property. The only experiment they had ever tried of an unlimited paper circulation, in con junction with a Bank Restriction Act, was between 1822 and 1826, and were they now prepared to run the hazard of all the miseries and distresses to which that system had exposed them ? The Hon. Gentleman had made some mysterious allusions, as if he apprehended that there was some improper understanding between Government and the Bank of England with respect to the issue of paper. But he could assure the lion. Gentleman that there was no such improper understanding, and that he might dim- miss his apprehensions on that point. Then ii!s tton. Friend, who had just spoken, had taken a view of the present condition of the country, which be (Mr. (Terries), if he did not go quite so far as his Honourable Friend, be still most sincerely hoped was the true one. His Honourable Friend was of opinion that, after having gone through and passed all the evils which resulted from the circumstances to which we had been exposed, we had safely lant'ed, and were now standing on a solid footing. He (Mr. Herries) trusted thit we w:re. But if so—if we were now stind- ing on a solid footing, what inconceivable madness and folly would it be to run the risk of a renewal of all the evils through which we had passed, by the addition of any new proposition ! The question of small note, which he had expected would have formed a large part of the pre sent discussion, had, as if by universal consent, been dis- carded by all the speakers of the evening. He might be excused, therefore, for not entering into any argument on that subject. All the objections which he entertained to any alteration of the standard of currency, were equally applicable to that mode of depreciating it. Ile would say a few, and only a few words, on the advantages which the Hon. Member who had moved the Resolutions sup posed would flow out of their adoption by the House. The • lion. Member seemed to think that it would increase rents awl profits, and would be eminently beneficial to the poor labourers. How that last purpose could be accomplished by a measure, the avowed object of which was to iucrease the price of commodities, was, he confessed, more than he was able to understand. The mere nominal increase of the value of wages could not enable the labourer to pur chase more wheat. In whatever point of view he con- siderel the subject, be always came back to the conclu sion, that the only result of adopting the proposed resolu tions would be, to enable a man who owed money to pay less than he owed. Denying, therefore, the justice of the Hon. Gentleman's proposition, and denying its policy; denying that it would extend relief to any one, and main taining that it would be hurtful to many, he mast give a decided negative to the motion. Lord HOWICK entirely concurred in most of tie po sition• of the Right Hon. Gentleman who had jnst spoken. He entirely concurred in his opinion of the impolicy of altering the existing standard. For these reasons, he could not hesitate to vote against the Hon. Member's first reso lution. With respect to the second resolution, he must say, that Le viewed with suspicion the project of a double standard. But if the whole question were submitted to the consideration of a Committee, he should have no ob jection to see that proposition included in it. Mr. WARD said, that it was highly desirable that a paper circulation should have a single basis; that it was better it should have one basis than two bast s, and better that it should have two than three. As to the one-pound notes, he was not one of those who were particularly de lighted at their being withdrawn ; but if there were a panic, he was persuaded that it would be worse with those notes than without them. The former panic had not arisen from the paper ; it had arisen from extensive spe culation ; some good, but some bad, and beyond all the suggestions of prudence. That, with some little deprecia tion of the currency, had been the cause of all the evil. To the double standard proposed in the second resolution of the Hon. Gentleman, las strongly objected. Mr. POULETT THOMPSON, though he greatly ad mired the speech of the Hen. Member for Callington, yet he could not help thinking that the whole of it favoured the very doctrine which he professed to oppose. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said, the paper question was one which very soon would come upon the House in a manner which would preclude its being overlooked, and the course which he therefore resolved to adopt was, to re serve himself for the early discussion of it, which lie bad no doubt would come on next Session. Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON thought it would be a gnat security to the banking system to have silver a legal tender as well as gold, but he should object to anything which went to depreciate the currency of the country. Mr. HUSKISSON said the House should pause before it proceeded upon a voyage of experiment; the sea migh at present be perfectly quiet, but they should look care fully around them before they incurred the risk of storms and rocks. He confessed he thought it would be highly desirable that no more than was necessary should be said upon the subject of the currency ; and he hoped the time was not far distant when it and the Catholic Question should both be forgotten. Though he should oppose the motion of the Hen. Member for Callington, yet he agreed with some of his supporters that a sound paper currency w a s amongst the most valuable of modern improvements; and he wished to take that opportunity of intimating his intention of moving for a Committee to inquire into the whole of the banking system of the country; before any renewal should be granted of the Charter of the Bank of England. After expressing the fullest concurrence in what fell from the Master of the Mint, he said that if the House were to adopt the motion of the Hon. Member for Callington, there would be the utmost alarm through out the country to-morrow morning, and before a week there would be scarcely a sovereign in the country. Lord MILTON was quite opposed to a double standard, and would therefore vote against the resolutions. Sir R. PEEL said the Hon. Member for Callington, amidst the copious abuse which he poured forth upon the measure which bore his (Sir R. Peel's) name, had done more to settle the question that night than he had ever done before, and that he effected by bringing forth a prac tical measure. And what did that practical measure amount to, now that the House had it before them? Just that he would, with a sum of 961., enable the debtor to discharge a debt of 100/. ; but that if within a short time the creditor were sufficiently prompt in recovering the money, he might get the entire 1001. As to the other Hon. Member for Callington, he could not help expressing his surprise that he should desire to recur to a system in troduced by Sir Isaac Newton 112 years ago. They were to take fur granted that the arrangement of Sir Isaac Newton, in 1718, was correct; why, it was notorious that said tbhuo tu t i h gf t theyt gentlemanthat w th o e u r l e d : v olt vote s efiotori:vtealtisieiirnnegcsooirinruetteihote.ns,Bioluu,etbelgaeeusnstt:lnedmtialeidy ; i a for these resolutions, it ought to be because lie wished them tote carried ; if, indeed, this was a motion for inquiry, he could understand Hon. Members voting for it on a venture. The person who had suffered by the measure of 1819, might have trusted to the solemn declarations of Parliament since, and become a creditor, in which case he would be visited by these resolutions under a new in fliction. Was there any justice in this? But it carried with it its own refutation ; for as it could not come into operation for a month, every creditor would avail himself of the interval. He, for one, was sorry to hear that Hon. Gentlemen were preparing to moot this question again next Session ;—it was complained that we had altered the cur rency four times within the last thirty years, and much mischief had been the consequence : surely, in that case, there was an additional reason for fixing to the present system, and thus giving it a fair trid. For his own part he had much rather that the sovereign should be alloyed at once, and so have the currency depreciated, than that the resolutions of the Hon. Gentleman should be carried into effect. With respect to a double standard, that appeared to him to be nonsense : a double measure there might be, but a double standard there could not be ; and if they took silver for the standard, gold must be taken for the token, as was the case in France at present. As far as he could pledge himself to a fixed opinion, that opinion was in favour of the present system. He would admit, for the sake of argument, that a better system might have been adopted in 1819 ; but the present had now existed for 10 years, and no doubt engagements were entered into under its as surance, which would produce much ruin if the system were altered. With respect to 11. notes, he did not see the absurdity of their circulation existing in Scotland and Ireland, and not being allowed in England. He wished that the circulation in these countries could be converted into gold ; but at all events he was clearly of opinion that if the I/. note system was again admitted into England, the consequence would be, the disappearance of the gold ; and in the event of a panic, there would be a simultaneous demand for gold without any to meet it. For these rea sons he should give his opposition to the first resolution of the Hon. Gentleman, because he thought it manifianly un just ; and also to the second resolution, which, though not unjust, would, in his opinion, be nugatory and useless.— (Cries of Question.) Mr. BARING and Sir R. Peer. mutually exp'.ained. Sir R. VYVYAN supported the motion. Mr. WARBURTON said, that if the first resolution of the Hon. Gentleman was carried, the consequence would be, that the gold circulation of the country would be ba nished ; and if the second resolution was adopted, the silver circulation would also be banished ; so that the end of the two resolutions would be, that the country would have nothing but a paper circulation.—( Loud cries of Question.) Mr. MAXWELL said the Hon. Gentleman, fur bring ing forward the motion, deserved the thanks of the country, more especially as he was opposed by Whig and Tory alike— by placemen, pensioners, half-pay officers, and younger brothers.—(Cries of Question.) Mr. ATTWOOD replied. The resolutions were then negatived without a division. FORGERY. Sir R. PEEL moved the Order of the Day for the ‘econd reading of the Clause added to the Forgery Bill. The Hon. Baronet took the opportunity of reading a letter he had received from the six Bankers w►th whom he had had a conference on the day when the Forgery Bill was read a second time, stating that the assertion made in the Muse of Commons, that two of those Pa hers had aban doned two prosecutions in eases of forgery, within a short time, because they did not like to inflict the penalty of death, was quite incorrect. These Bankers, one and all, deny the statement made the other evening on the subjee; by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough. He thought that it was due to those gentlemen to make this declaration. Mr. P. THOMSON said a fiw words expressing his regret that the statement had been made. Mr. F. BUXTON s lid, that the fact formerly st ttei was true in substance though not as to time. The forgery was practised on Shipman and Company, upholsterers. _r There were many extenuating circumstances belonging to • • the case. The forgery occurred in 1828, and he was sorry it had been mentioned. 0;' Sir H. PEEL—The question was, whether the parties abandoned the prosecution from the dread of inflicting the punishment of death ? Mr. F. BUXTON had been informed on high authority, :;;: that the substance of what he had stated was capable of proof in every part, as stated by the Hen. Member for Knaresborough, except the date. After a few words from Mr. WARBURTON, Mr. Pou- LETT THOMPSON, and Sir ROBERT PEEL, the clause was then read a second time, and the Forgery Bill was passed. The other Orders of the Day were then read, and the House adjourned at Three o'clock. ~x PARLIAMENTARY PAPER. WELSH CIRCUITS. Return of the Salaries, Emoluments, Charges, and Inc . .- dental Disbursements of the Justice of the Chester Cir cuit, the Chief Justice of the North Wales Circuit, and the Justice of the Brecon Circuit. I. Return of the Salary, Emoluments, Charges, and Incidental Disbursements of the Justice of the Chester Circuit. SALARY, &C. Salary £1,230• 0 0 rl'he Justice of the Chester Circuit] 00 0 Emoluments has no Emoluments. CIIARGES, &C. Deductions at the Treasury and Exchequer 18 8 0 Posting 7O 0 0 Household Expenses r The Chief Justice} 140 0 0 424 / ' pays two.thirds 254 II 0 £1,015 12 0 Since the death of the late Chief Justice, I have received the Fees of that Office, which have amounted in the whole to the sum of 2.171. 18s. and I have paid all the Houschcld Expenses of the two la,t Circuits. T. JERVIt, His Majesty's Justice of the Chester Circuit. Old Palace Yard, May 31, 1630. To the Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel, Bart Ac. &c. FIR,—I have the honour to inform you that my Salary as Chief Justice of the North Wales Circuit per annum i5...£1,150 U 0 Emoluments arising from lines and other Fees due to me as Chief Justice amount to rather more, but I state them at 5O 0 0 £1,200 0 0 The Charges and Disbursements incident to my Office I estimate at, per annum £2OO 0 0 I have the honour to be, &c &c. 35, Bedford-row, May 29, 1030. JONATHAN RAINS. To the Right Hon. Sir Robert Peel, Bart. &c. &c. &c. SIR,—In compliance with your request, 1 have the honour of transmitting to you a Return of my Salary, Emoluments, anti incidental Disbursements, as Justice of the Brecon Circuit. Salary. X 1,150 0 0 Emoluments (being 6d. on every Fine levied) between 2/. and 31. Disbursements (including expenses incurred in • '" . sc mot travelling to and from the Circuit, and during per annum. my stay at each Circuit Town) between I have the honour to be, &c. &c. Temple, May 29, ISW. ROBERT MATHEW CASBERD. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. " MINISTRY OF WAR. (PRIVATE AND CONFIDENTIAL.) " In pursuance of the Royal Ordinance of the 16th inst., which convokes the Electoral Colleges for the 22d of next month, I invite you to inform, without delay, the officers of all ranks in garrison or in quarters, in the divi sion which you command,' who shall qualify as electors, that you are authorized to deliver to them directly fur loughs to go into the departments in which they have to exercise their political rights. " The duration of the furloughs which you will grant them for this purpose must be calculated approximatively according to the time which will be necessary for them to make the j mrney, to be present at the operations of their collcges, and to return to their posts. These furloughs will not cause any diminution of the pay of the officers who shall obtain them. " The King expects from you on this occasion the same proofs of attachment to his person and to his service which you have given him on similar occasions. You have already on several occasions explained to the military mert'' called to take a share in the elections, the nature Al a doll:. extent of the duties which belong to their employments, / f and how incompatible with those employments, any cones' duct would be that might oppose the direction *deb his Majesty has thought most suitable to the present circurn st .uces and situation of the kingdom. There is none of them who should not comprehend, that if they are free as to their votes, they have also obligations inseparable front their situation ; that it is impossible to serve at once the Government of the King and the Opposition, and that honour, as well as duty, ;quires them to make a choice between the two. " You will have now to maints)n, by your instructions and by your example, the same doctrines, and to employ, in order to make them effectual, along with the force of your personal conviction, the lawful means which the con— fidence of his Majesty has put at your disposal. The views which regulate the Government of the King are known and may be loudly avowed ; they have no object but the preservation of the rights of the throne, and the stability of the institutions of which it is the fundamental basis. They are a sure rule of conduct for every one who desires frankly and honestly the maintenance of the monare'ty anti of public liberty. " I invite you, besides, to come to an understanding with Messrs. les Prefets, who are specially charged to give to the electorial operations that direction and that ensemble which must secure their result. " You will fake measures that the service may not suffer from the absence of the officers called to the elec tions from their quarters or garrisons. I have the h 'flour to be, &c. " The President of the Council, charged ad interim with the Portfolio of War, (Signed) " Prince de POLIGNAC." The Papers of Sunday contain no news of the Algerine expedition. The Moniteur says that none have been received. The following details appear in the Courrier des Tri bunaux. The Gazette de France treats the account as an absurdity : " ORLEANS, JUNE 3.—The Royal Court is new as sembled to deliberate on an affair which had been first carried before the m tgistrates of Pitbeviers, and is nothing less than a grand conspiracy against the Government. A man tolerably well dressed had attracted the notice of the gendarmes, and had rather sought to draw their attention than to avoid them. On searching hiss, some papers were discovered on his person, containing a plan of a con spiracy against the state, written in pencil, with a list of conspirators, amongst whom are Lafayette, De Cases, d° Chateaubriand, &c. The crown to be offered to the branch of Orleans or to the Duke of Reiahstad►. - - " The Royal Court has ordered one of its members to take the depositions in this important case." The Covent-Garden Management, it has been announced by Mr. C. KIMBLE, are already prepared, from the prosperity of the Theatre, to pay off all loams advanced to enable them to commence the present season. Mr. Kitstistia has thus most honourably redeemed the pledge he gave upon this subject. COURT OF KINGS BENCH.--JONES ', 't7. Humit.—This was an action for a breach of promise of marriage, which came on yesterday in this Court, before Lord TENTERDEN and a Common Jury. The plaintiff, Miss./ONES, was upwards of thirty years of age, and the defendant, 11r. Hustrc, on the awkward side of sixty, The Jury returned a verdict for the plaintiff, damages 1501. Mrs. SADLER, formerly housekeeper to the noble family of Powls, died worth 10,0001., 8,000/. of which, it is said, she banded over to a young woman, s stranger, to save legacy duty. The remainder was left to a person in this town and other individuals.—Shrewsburg Chronicle. Were a GAY to be found among our living poets, his " Trivia" might receive a curious accession from a nocturnal squabble between a great Law Lord and hie meek cara sposa, which has been much talked of in c,er tain circles for some days past.— : Morning Paper. CONFESSION OF MURDER.—Our readers may recollect that, some years ago, a woman of the name of MARGARET SHUTTLEWOKTH was tried in Perth, for the murder of her husband. She was convicted entirely upos circumstantial evidence, and executed at Montrose, after being respited for two weeks. She maintained her inno cence to the last—even when standing on the drop! We have beard the contents of a private letter which arrived from England last week, which states that a min , ' who has just now been executed in England, confessed,- upon the scaffold, that be was the sole murderer of Kali" -GARET SIIUTTLEWORTH'S husband.—Desndee Advertiser. Per call: R Mr Cent., 11 :knk Y. Anc Ditto s ear Ditto 36 year tjttliit stock Faterts OF Austtiatk Boi ttrazttian Bo it-nos Ayri I.l iliatt Boni Colombian I Ditto, 1624 , Uanish Greek Brindt Ditto, !AT) 9batirnala.- i lextcan Bo Ditto 'B•2 . PRICE I,4ngto Alex . arazinan In Ditto St. linited ?ilex .An airn at h e u rd rg a . m :: Ditto, at ail Rotterdam twerp Altona P aris, 3 d a , Ditto R s. o rdeaux Flank. fort o Zeteraburcl ttv e e " sTe' Madrid Cadiz Rilboa Barcelona Seville Gibraltar , Arrived. O Ame O Brat • Etter O Cartl 1 Dubl O Flan 0 Fran Guei HIGH Morning 1 ---__._ WEE The! " The Co n all y, A dc gentler district! HERB: of Tra the con In tl the fol MASH berlailll mornin till hal Palace parap Mr. NI MAST, to whc funeral for yet tometl of pn painfu the C MAJI which believe to g i We ha with V What 1 ra ilt ? gloom his 8, eXpre; ject 0 th e t equir Itoya 111 the not s( in thi antici th e fi the r Was reals Ever 15th doul Stoc arm( sent prey give cons Pat Cala from at to et reac