The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-02 00:00:00

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Fish er ' ne cti 4 l In their re' , 01 yards ire lind t :at tai letter gated 305,r, bashing a Tr th the name of eta tY' )0 o f the s oci ot 'ved with the eel !n adjourned to Monday next. , le other 3 .`"',001 to pursue. • Ce s 7 obed Wh: Mel estie of wl le (Los repeal ;uri: .dvoe2u t renr A u; f rat Impet code h v. ;rey' t d, num, erful inte. 4 10 .t l as t blani , `,o y they abli°`:o ous grand ) 00 )I—could b e 170 r, for the 03 House of V ra beers.) V o l, tance of in s 0 0 ras a reftits" o p it of disaffe ct' , of , the maje sty He a r, hear •) feet of a ut Earl G' ice would d` mid certaial , e , was one Le (Lord oyed—thiq the gift it tenth, roportions , nt be given all dr lcrgy of a ;rand jury xi—let th e see the vith Ens agical celer mid the minutes• the follovO• g comlxiittl o o, l an d ough t . . t i l e Ireland, i", of Ireland , the in( his root need that threaten e4 r their :y of pr Aro __ \ di t t o U SE LORDS, MARCH 1. " 4 14a c k Ith CHANCELLOR having taken his seat on the w at 6ve o'clock, C°lll roo na L P _ A TTEN and other Members of the House of Lor4 ,`,a.twht up a private Bill. No, JJACRE. ih e .Pott presented several petitions from other pl aces i n M onmout h s hi re, pray i ng f or A N oli ate aboliti on of negro slavery. la g for Loral) presented a p e tition from Chelsea, I r le t d the better observance of the Sabbath. KING presented a petition front a parish in ITh d ttainst • • , r e , th e Irish Coercive Bill. f et °4s 4 ij i i : B l , ' l ° of WESTMINSTER presented a petition 1 1 . 11 e hete,,cntlng congregation in Westminster, praying ord observance of the Sabbath. r e p 4 ,, k ,thite, „ YON presented a petition from Skipton, in ' 4 14 2 14.4 3'1ng their Lordships' House to pass a Bill Th e Vie hours of labour in factories. tsli v ° P of LICHFIELD and COVENTRY petitions from the town of Stratford, hes in the counties of Derby and Suffolk, better observance of the Sabbath. q RODEN presented a petition from the Ig in Yorkshire, for Regulating the Hours 'Tories. :LD presented a petition from Wells, in for the better observance of the Softball. I. that in a town near which he resided Ie tradesmen were willing to close their provid e d those conducting their busi. • scale would do the same ; but the evil ter pers,ns, paying less rates and assessed to take business away from the others by 'hope open on Sundays. This might in remedied by masters instead of paying late on Saturday night, or on Sunday them on the Friday, so that they or their their provisions on the Saturday. RODEN said that he quite agreed with made by the Noble Lord, and thought ier classes determined not to deal with who kept open their shops on Sundays, some way be removed. ‘ ll presented three petitions to the like ' OF COMMONS, MARc.O 1. took the Chair about ten minutes past moved for returns of the coal and culm London, and the duties paid thereon. moved for all the cau;es heard and deter- Lrts of Requests in the cities of London Including the Palace Court, during the LYTTON BULWER presented a pe tty of Coventry, praying that the House ire they consigned seven millions of Irish Ipotic power of an individual, and, by con rts of Justice in that country into irrespon itroy every vestige of constitutional liberty 41 1 , - petitioners stated that they viewed with 4 1 4'4 ti t l n troduction of a measure, for the purpose of 11 4 ' 1 )y the irritation in Ireland, which would utterly itional rights and civil liberties of country. The petitioners believed of taxation in that country had - trances which bad taken place, the brought by it to that state of i which they could no longer en• The petitioners stated also their inly means of tranquillizing Ireland he evils of which they complained, wrongs which they suffered by the would be restored, instead of the 'geance being driven through the land. COERCIVE HILL. 'ER then moved the order of the adjourned debate on this Bill. He felt , ed to present the petition from Co. parts in it with which he could not lot have troubled the House with is own, had it not been for the is made upon the subject during arious Members, no gentleman having iments that lie (Mr. Bulwer) felt He felt a desire to answer all those , urpose now rose to address the House. :heir indefatigable and unremitting ex (son of great trouble and difficulty, to they believed to be for the advantage ire especially for the consolidation and ties, he had felt a strong desire to state sent from, he might almost say. the as lentletuan. But there was another lion. p, whose observations, though die was perfectly impossible for him 1, indeed, lie meant, for the purpose , 4 hi -- sides of the House, to make a speech to t h e one , an d hi s vote to t h e ot h er . ." 04 t lk iL ' He all u d e d to th e H on . M em b er f or t h e th -ue (14 4 ,4 t Ch'i and h e was des i rous of call i ng the atten hbtole noose to what had fallen from that `^s kie ntleman, in order that he might 4i, recall fi t ' al hb the attention of the House .J' e t matter in dispute. That Hon. t tt h tqa t , 44 4 p e , W re l e t h a very solemn ki n d o f manne r, sa id t 'Y impossibl e no t t o vo t e f ur thi s 'qtr, f '&l4, l ,_‘ eau ses said the Hon. G en tl e man, either tib ti tis it M ore the H ouse was wrong i n pr i nc i p l e , an d I ,, i i' ° ght sot to be passed, or it was right in ik tr t herefore ought to be passed immediately. pla y that the Honourable Gentleman was not lis ean c e t , as he m i g h t h ave exp l a i ne d to t h e House ion IT being right or wrong in principle. i i ts Gentl eman mean that he w i shed the House 11ee ° pinion as t o w h et h er i t was r i g h t i n prin i,l itig to the principles of the Constitution, l? Y Jury and th e r i g h t o f p et i t i on s h ou ld b e t h e 41 he mean to put that abstract question of lo ti b t li . ?hse? Because if he did, he (Mr. Bulwer) con , that the question would be answered— th:tradicente —against the measure. Did • °fl no occasion whatever were ex leurristances to sanction extraordinary ;id he mean to say that we were to be so 141 ' 1 by the l e tt er o f th e C onst i tut i on , t h at we ~,Ch4tterarl to its end and spi r it, o r th a t so muc h re • sti,ll,4°_,Paid to mere abstract l a w, tl at it s h ou ld k tA u ed for the protection of property, and we life ?--( H e a r , h ear .) H e cons id ere d re two vi e ws i n w hi c h thi s measure It t'l at. First, that of State necessity, and, ri tpediercy. These two questions should ~DeW•ether it was necessary and expedient ; and Wh it was and expedent de °ce eth of er the necessity necessary and expediency.— ' hear.) He should, therefore, have h i s , ll "n. Memb er b een p resent , to h ave b een i n "'e to connect his vote with his speech, by that they were to come to a decision accord and not according to any abstract prin.' This was a measure, of the necessity towhich they were to judge by evidence. e '„; Say that in voting for the address to his eiti; hea voured to keep his mind entirely free ith the on e way or t h e ot h er . —(H ear , e gard to th e B i ll now b e f ore t h e H ouse , ,lit„,°tendinent co u ld h ave b een propose d, I t s e ri Z t r e them w as t h e on l y one t h at appeare d ti al td aced every thing. If Hon. Members Pon to vote that this Bill be read this of he, for one , wou ld not vote f or 1, the, sill in that manner. He was t i i nt Prepared t o sa y th a t I re l an d was i n a It necessary, although he admitted the Clcl to be a very serious one. Under such G u t lid not wish his Majesty's Government t f ; i tli a -v ernment to feel, that if greater powers 41 Government had at command for the ' ll P'' l l 444 trY, the House of Commons would l'lllitZlkilihWers. Again, if any conspirators Sire th; he Would not afford them that exul- A tio t Would beyond question feel, if the With 1 ,45, t s at e ° grant any measure whatever. he t 4eth 4t r e of the amendment was this : t'iaidenY gentl eman w h o w as no t satis itv t'ee bef ore th t t 4, to ea. ore the House might become so ; Ws, f ait arrief ti of t , that by delay the House would t ; t alki t YN tho ue assizes. —(Hear, hear.) And it , tati v °t si o tti/ to and there were a great number, elti ow t that measures of conciliation would h io thg 4 ,,Att,4 Put down the disturbances in Ireland h e 4 f or "tti, 1) 4 r th as to give them an opportunity Sao tr l tt , i , s6 eti HetYdt%,,'ere right or wrong in the theory ''as t 'ar e and h.. not mean to say Ireland was o f restored to a state of quietude, t `ease> t hat ' lc ; s sh d -iut he did believe that if the in !y, Nati' t 'er t -t ‘htry 1.4 1, 11 ,.'kt t) , to r , vi aw conciliatory . measures in the Y sr , e 'iced that if they did not sub tikte W atiiP u rea, they must how to coercive sub s 1)0 th restored. This he considered 11 1 d 'xtr ci tinie n d vroul l 4 firl i ,,q4 y went ; and he thought that 41 - 10 ,2ary s `nd decency in passing measures they were the House on the one Y Were watchful of the liberties honoured in,,,:se i kese -' Bish o Assrl of id,' fatl:?tod p to nou:everai rim particular f Paris), rolrnent of Lord ;,;ia,,411, ~or t h e b haracie r 'ilag, e were c . 0 0 N T 6f s of ecided ol i ft . t eYnini the very Pact there could 0° ,, 4 011 ;, "'FM s fur conitito° 00 1t5 "4 in ng uvernment andoni 1111Cdthir: on had been sind, weep the . rist°.'„if t,, Sundaftable aok with suspici°,;lo v, t ; stn y, and he Wlo,,re) it lat;,thaf t he lane hope of see i ' 16 h ,' Wo u l d l atte ce of IttriZlg try. continue uh cO 4 IL, ' tile rsh in which tb e ',oo o 't I hiBllte be rom the circo°.'lii 0 1 'urers I. accordance 0 . ,1, r,l tni a as attached tb h e it ' l o ; I [didly avoli r 0.. . y 1 is of the pro" g ) i t at if Y'ery at i lions had 1,4:,.er:ie0,i th„°'2B ohom verY 't tr tril "lghnen t of the CO ° might not b i e tr , ar, t in considered. ? ` XLEI religious liber":l, 'lt b . great political iiouse thei rastire of flefer:offi )1y vindicated P io( 1 , 1 1 / 0 :he occasion. o f tAall SE u, L •,1 4leloektAxEß • 4 !rs given to ' l ,OO, ration which Ikr l „,` , UTE —(Hear, Zihtn Lot n to be destined I / ,7 4 4. 1'1 1xe Nhat was thei°o rd , w , ll the :he removal o' t4t m was to be e%,;tei, If t /r, "'ter, vas not all. :i o sd Ministers the' ti pl% 1, 0 , 41 1 fro,'tt Ry co,j the their devot e d eN Pau " ett s majesty:oo,l,,,ts :446143 the r (so help h' the 'es pi ' the Russiai--00, I, e ° ,l ll om st. Peter° 19 4;2 s 1.0 4 ntl u "tr( . n, of that 0) 4 11, Th e I ;edience C .t lpro eon;t, Vhat 131° !, P'e of ant that ca en like st? `44kOtlit,,tl c retirci l ' e ; t h 8 System which Wer w y tly ett h avi e disturb Lord M ilt° IA It 'rt +l ng be en peal of t b r e o tifi Itt4'Ntiettr distress ing him $ `lll,i , h ear. ) )cafe 0 1 r tha t the ender h im' oj ir k t 6„ 01 . 0 aw ' ot th upon to Of ''Lich of risk pat - '4pf the ather se e i , s pe o . peace "Potte vengt Jerial rxr` l ied 0 1;, 4 11 I RISH vain A Nd .e ' re BULWI 0, Bill theiq hein g b ail a ' tuber than td owe, r hear)-1000, to y e Were rnt, It ". st rirt; 'eti: t t ktett e sh° uld fit ;nly ant 4 ,; iv e )! of ntm of hi, ould he" 0 ,0 t kp i .. 4 t i,,,! lt4 ternents which Ile od 'tug b read tlo t o . 11 th t the te y r : t f at the D'‘ ) I, ` IttL'l44, 1) int nd h J e ct H estate, 3 ' jit t t I, fo r of e , that pu luiliity tl ' 4 dered th rent ttie t4ln i, a seaso o the tk , br e the re e, lr et , b1i c tty, 4 0,,, 4- which magisl3 o 0 . 4 4 p `^d awl concl 3c ;ol7/ n'sequen'; 1,0 f l , v elll l disse ire, , e ortly 3 Ge (Hear.) of tit, 49 meastir e %py tf rtidtr,i4!thd, got it e l emanciP' t 00? k l / 2 knt e , l 4, Unless, at intelic`; 011 , Ltat ‘ i ( hi, 20th tv - , e t " "%r e 1, — ;" 41 ma jes— 11.." Qtt uttort hear.) • s ) it ic o o o ti t t ip!, 't ()u g h af 3 ati l th e Auld rl tot 0 /,‘,h, 1,; 11 .`"Y tha u"„ re- e i b. 't h Place tP , i t , :rope 0,,,t0tt tionedllt rd M ii c t :o l4 ,l" ti A Pa N i t : Ger oacr:yi t tat ) 4 NI opii in of o clo 4 4 1 ,i, tr .aeCurd th, c :ce " h i t f l it in 4, 'Lted l by lcuia, - to t ? lbw n • 4 tr lit t) 41 ' lio, ieno o3 .4 ` l' c i rA t '4)e d°4 bt th of 3 11 irk ewitraci jurY °pe, ta,"'din: that t the .4 0 4 f 4 04 1.1 circ he dcc d ' , 01 I" ItkN bid u nglan 'tf '1 '0 44 b I cete ri out a d w eft to t !h( )41 att en rO:llilkt,% 1 • ) Pai L i t i c ow irl. to 'f,i'lhat P"lded irnitte fOl O Y 4L otiL l tle r l nigh t .- 111 e I ttt," e, Wlift ere nd, ,141). ~,‘')oho4l a roPv ttit? 14 t Of t sl 4 ' t Y 30' 000 y GI, ea ,sowttiel, (1-1,1*il; tt'? thAt, WI ten' . l 111- 0/ k d, 1 44,. t4Nith ' h deg Ca tr t , kit t i e w ti t t iti ß atD el/ti pl, ° trti t q 'N tha 5 Y cl ' 'h4 t 4 ) ail(' /' l llk , l ° tV er , ,e„, of Lc 1,44 d to et ( ' pa ttl el l4 o ot ‘ l .eith e r a s P " ,} 0 ' , 01 1 !,111, t 4 Y e r.io l '' 5( 11 tolrft e. r agz P r og ht t e l ,7 l tl, 0, 4, 04 1 t d'tb° „ tl' It ef 'rq , eIY ir 4 Y k;''t)e e khr ord tit 4111,d „,ra. a nt %rith s nu rn , state ,„ Of C#. t'44.4. 4011'04'0n 010 a oitipt. 0 4 4 5 f ai N b t Iti tti a viduh'ootlyr'tl'tb'hi he wi t " - r or i ib e t 1 9 k kti P r+ tl ttq q() , f o;so'l3qt tf ° r4t iol• 1 4 4 lat tl , t thehfln '4l coo ,0 .tatio a °eh co cde 5414 h•INI f 0 , ,„ 4, 10 4 the of ii , ",t! th, ‘t' t th t , yeoPl e the, 1 ,1, 3 ‘ , gh t ;i - or"" ht &tit t • tlt t ° t w ig- 1 ,, kith ti ; 1n otc_wi he tt lt t h " I ' e .‘• object, he Lich they ye•t I not, 0 is resolu t f O ol ow they S P : A y pu blic D u " should " )f symP3l one his resolutioop or Leasure, ~ a nd O r as merely he (Let d 'd had " 3r „aii r , but an Mr. O'C°" s , of the l eso * of St. l ie I its indiv id i U t boe t to be `` lives arwot, , og hters , indiso o .e a 50? cti vice I 1 of de en the 1 1 0 0( r the P e°P .., of r efor" tt ;e h t :oercion cm the ch2ii county o f yo 1 3: hter• near c ;err u t l e s t % M i s ,n Fuller, lady of Joh t 001115bUrY!,rgeS sRi sa, the Y 5 ,11.54';$ 1 eet. R US 00 0 D ol e / Rev. „, t or .d, and R, '&01! Rev. J. one afte„ir p (pi rtnerly ight, CaP"i" ) \ • O U p, LOSD°I4 [ear, dden, wo, is est anqi s gr 4 into of tl Cr CrL lic em, Good (No. 12,629.) LONDON, SATURDAY EV ING, MARCH 2, 1833. of the people, while on the other, in suspending the mea sure for so short a period as two weeks only, Hon. Gen tlemen would feel every confidence was reposed in there which any Government could demand from independen' Members of Parliament. There was one remark which had been made by the Noble Lord opposite (Althorp) that occasioned much surprise among many gentlemen who were warmly attached to Government. and that was, that upon the issue of this question would depend whether they kept their seats or resigned. Certainly that was nor the way in which he (Mr. Bulwer) had understood that questions were to terminate in a reformed Parliament. In an unreformed Parliament, it bad been generally under. stood, that when an opposition proved itself stronger than the Ministers, the latter resigned their office, but in a re formed Parliament, in which there were so many indepen dent men, he certainly understood that that would not be the case. The Members of the House were, there !ore, placed in a very awkward predicament, for they were either bound to support every measure introduced by Mi nisters, or, by advocating them upon any one question, oc casion their resignation. If lie could think that Ministers would quit office upon such an important question as that before the House being decided against them, he must say that he never knew so strong a di. reliction from what he had understood would be the conduct of the Government. The Right Hon. Gen tleman (Mr. Stanley) in asking for such extra ordinary powers, did not ask for them in order to perpetuate the abuses existing in Ireland, but in order to put down stare of civil confusion in that country, which was perfectly incompatible with all good Government. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that in order to bring back tranquillity to Ireland, the abuses in the Church and other establishments must he re formed ; but, he added, that until that was done, would they have life and property destroyed, or would they see it preserved ? He (Mr. Bulwer) felt as deeply as any one that there were grievances in Ireland, but he would not ad mit that the existence of any grievance could justify murder, robbery, or arson. From those crimes, as well as from those grievances, Ireland should be speedily delivered. If those crimes were not the effect of any insulated disorder, but of a deep laid conspiracy, and if the Government asked for extraordinary powers, the case should be made out by those who asked for those powers, and in propor tion to the strength they demanded, should be the wrength of the evidence to warrant the House in granting them. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that be had a case to produce to the House—that it was a strong one, and that the House would decide upon it. He had divided his case into three parts—first, with a view of showing the existence and the extent of the out rages; second, to show a conspiracy or plan ; and, third, to prove that the measures which he was bringing forward were the best and most effectual to repress those outrages. No one could doubt, upon the statement made by the Right Hon. Secretary, that crime and outrage prevailed to a considerable extent in Ireland, but he must say that the Right Hon. Gentleman completely failed in making out anything like a conspiracy. The first document, if he could so call it, which the Right Hon. Gentleman had quoted in support of that position was the speech of a friend of the Hon. Member for Dublin, in which the pacificator was supposed to have said that he was ready, at the command of the Honourable and Learned Mem ber, to rise in arms against the Government. But was the House of Commons to legislate upon a rliodomontade of this description ? If the House could be alarmed upon expressions of this kind, it was a very different assembly to what it had shown itself six months ago. He remembered a Gallant Friend of his rising from the opposite benches, and stating that if the Reform Bill were not carried in that House and the people were to rise in arms to obtain it, lie had a sword at their service. But who was there alarmed at his Gallant Friend's visionary weapon ? The Right Hoe. Secretary, having stated Ow, turned to the bundle of papers with a grave air, and he (Mr. B.) 'bought he was about to produce some document, like the opinion of the Judges of Ireland produced on a former occasion, stating the opinion of the Judges, that it was impossi ble for them to proceed in the ordinary course of the administration of justice. But instead of anything of that kind, the Right Hon. Gentleman produced a sort of metri cal romance.---(Laughter.) Certainly the poetry was bad. but bad poetry was not yet treason; he teeny had thong it that upon that kind of evidence the Right Hon. Gentleman might very well despatch the Learned Lord Advocate and the Member for Leeds with a pocket of pens and a box of paper to instruct the Irish in a better style of compo sition. He did not expect that he wished to break a poetical butterfly on the wheel of a courtmartial, or that he would ask them to give up their rights for a rhyme, and the Constitution for a song.—(Cheers.) The same kind of disturbance had always existed in Ireland as had been described by the Right Hon. Gentleman ; but, ins!eld of Whitefeet and Whiteboys, they were called Rockitee and 'rerryalts. When the Right Hon. Gentleman quoted the evidence of Mr. ELrrington, to prove the existence of this kind of disturbance, it was to be regretted he did not quote that gentleman's opi nion as to the best means of suppressing it. Had he done so, the House would have beard that Mr. Barrington was expressly asked the questi in, and that Mr. Barrington said he kn-w of no other means than the ordinary laws of the land. The Right Honourable Gentle nun next referred to the opinion of the Com• mi tree of the last session, but that Committee had recommended that the disturbances should be put down with the least possible infringement on the Consti tution. Mr. Barringion was asked what caus..d the exist ing excitation ? His answer was, that it was caused by the people considering that the laws were in themselves unjust, and that, cons-quently, the sentences under these laws were so many acts of aggression. He would ask, then, was it likely when these laws were still more summary and severe, they would improve in the opinion of the people ? Did the Right Hon. Sect etary suppose that when the law was stripped of its solemnities, and of its impressive forms, more respect would be shown to the acts of judges sitting in Court with swords by their sides? Mr. Barrington, in answer to a question, had de clared that he knew no instance of the slightest hostility against juries. Other evidence had shown that many unfortunate creatures had been goaded into every species of violence by measures of severity and injustice; while it went on to declare that the Irish peasant was, above all others, more attached to any one who treated him with kindness. An Hon. Gen tleman, in the debate of last evening, had called this measure a constitutional measure, and that it should also be made an effectual one. But how could the de sired effect be expected from a measure that must go to create an opposite extreme ?—(Hear.) The Hon. Mem ber had accused an Honourable relative of big, of in consistency, because he voted for the address to the Crown, and opposed these measures that were there promised, and which were now brought forward as springing out of it.—Hear, bear.) It must be re membered, that in that speech conciliatory measures were spoken of. Now, his Hon. Relative might have been anxious to know whether those measures of conciliation were to precede those of coercion, and in the next place he might have been anxious to know whether those conciliatory measures were to be of that large and ample kind which was expected by the country. He had also been charged with inconsistency, and to no charge bad he paid more attention than to that ; but had he not already done away that charge ? Another Honourable Member had spoken much of what the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin had called pacific resistance. Now, what had been the language used by the Honourable Gentleman? Speaking of the life of Hampden, before the revolution took place, he said that which was merely a sect before perse cution was afterwards able to resist the Monarch, with out breaking the law. No man could be more fearful of this pacific resistance than he was, for he feared that where it once took root, it could not be eradicated by force. The Hon. and Learned Member had made allusion to the Jacobins and Jacobin Club. He wondered that that Hon. and Learned Gentleman bail not called to mind the statements made by a friend of his with respect to Jacobins.—(Hear.) He wondered that he did not consider how he had refuted such statements when brought against the Noble Earl now at the head of his Majesty's Ministers. He wondered the Honourable Gen tleman bad not taken more advantage of his historical recollections when speaking of the Jacobin Club. He would not longer trespass on the attention of the House; but he trusted they would support the cause of those who had always done every thing to support both civil and religious liberty. Sir GEORGE GREY next addressed the House. In doing so, he guarded himself against being supposed capa ble of harbouring that hatred to Ireland, for such was the expression that had been u.ed, imputed as actuating those Hon. English Members of the House who dared to support the measure.—(Hear, hear.) He might not gain credit with all the Hon. Members on the oppo s i te -ide of the House, but he hoped that he should have credit with those who knew him,—aud they were his feel ings, and the feelings of many around him,—when he said it was with the greatest regret he should support that measure. Regret, not that it had been introduced —n o t that it had been introduced by a reforming Ministry, which possessed the confidence of the country, by showing themselves the protectors of its dearest interest., nut regret that that particular necessity existed which called most imperatively for its introduction. After hearing the statement made by the Noble Lord (Althorp), hearing that able and eloquent spee c h, so often alluded to, addressed to the House by hi s Right Honourable Friend the Secretary for Ireland, he .ttiotld feel that the blood shed in Ireland by the continuance of the outrages existing there rested pertly on his head if he refused or delayed givinghis supper, to this Bill. He regarded Ireland as an integral part of the empire, and, regarding it as such, he should be worthy indeed of the imputations thrown on gentlemen on his side of the House, if be did not, having sup ported this Bill, vote for a measure introduced by any Government having the confidence of the country, of a similar tendency, equally severe and appicable to the same case of paramount overwhelming necessity. But while he said this, he denied the possibility of this Bill being drawn into a precedent for England. That there were grievances under which Ireland had long laboured, none were more ready than he to admit. Indeed he was convinced that these bad been the original cause of the present unhappy state of that country ; but knowing that these causes did not exist in England, he was putting only a hypothetical case, and he was justified in saving that the state of England or Scotland could never justify any Minister coming to that House and asking for such extraordinary powers. Ireland, at present, was disgraced by outrages of the most atrocious character. He had to make use of the language in the preamble of the Bill, a conspiracy existed—(Hear)-_.a conspiracy existed against the rights of property—(Renewed cries of " Hear ")—and against the administrators of the laws—(Continued cheers) —a conspiracy which rendered those laws a by-word— (Cneers)—ea conspiracy which made them a protection to the guilty, instead of the innocent. There had been an aggravation of the state of things by what had been called the accursed tithe laws. What the Hon. Memb r for Tipperary said last night, undoubtedly supported this statement, and he (Sir G. Grey) was not prepared to deny that the tithe system had been a prejudicial circumstance— (Hear, hear)—and when the proper time came for enter ing into an inquiry on this subject, he would enter into it with as impartial a mind as any individual in that House. —(Hear, hear.) At the same time, it was absolutely necessary there should be a measure of this kind in the interim to repress and restrain while measures of a reme dial kind were in progress, and until the confidence of the people of Ireland in that House had been restored which had been undermined by the tendency of the political as sociations in that country. Had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite not had agitation to his heart's con tent, and had he not had ample opportunities of applying any remedial influence in his power, while the Right Honourable Secretary had even been detailing fresh ac counts of the must atrocious acts that had been received, and every thing conspired to render the adoption of some effective measure absolutely necessary? He fully admitted that the agitations in Ireland, connected with his undoubted great talents, had given the Hon. and Learned Gentleman a power and influence which no one could deny, but could any one say that he had used that influence and power in a manner to bring about a peace able. and constitutional state in that country ? Whatever the Hon. and Learned Member might mean when uttering ehe speeches he did in Ireland, he could not believe that their effect was tranquillising. Whet did the Hon. and Learned Member say the other night, when dragged to that table by the indignant feelings of that House—(Cheers)— which felt that its privileges had been grossly insult• d, to explain the language attributed to him in the newspaper reports, and which violated those privileges if the report was true? The explanation given by the Hon. and Learned Alember afforded strength to his argument, for what did it amount to? Not to an assertion thtt the report was a calumnious falsehood, or a gross misrepresentation, but that the report might easily have got into the paper, that the reporter w .s guiltless, and that he was not surprised at seeing what he had been thought to say, for that his language 'night easily have been misconceived. —( Hear.) Indeed, the Hon. and Learned M mher added that his thoughts fol lowed each other ao rapidly, that lie was not always com pletely ma-ter of his own language. Now, was it not pos sible that he might fall into the same mistakes in Ireland, and that he might make speeches there under the influence of the same feelings? Toe report of his spe. ches in the Dublin papers was never contradicted, and why ? ( Hear, hear.) Because he could not be arraigned for what he said at the table of that House. We must infer, therefore, that these inflammable speeches were circulated in Ireland, under the notion that they were not. calculated to da injury, although certainly they tended, in his (Sir G Grey's) opinion, to anything but the maintenance of the peace, or the production of confidence in this assembly as the representatives of the people.—(Hear, hear.) This led hint to the remark that the time chosen by the Hon. and Learned Member to stir up agitation in favour of a repeal of the Union, was precisely that when he knew the constitution of this House was to be changed.--(Cries of No, no.") He could not dive into the Honourable / and Learned Member's mind, and 8 ,y when the Hon. and Learned Member first saw that the repeal of the Union was a specific, and the only specific for the ills of Ireland ; but, if his memory deceived him not, be only began the agitation for a repeal of the Union when the Reform Bill was brought in by the present Government.—(Hear.) It looked as if the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, saying the time was nearly come when that House would fairly represent the opinions of the people, and that it would then seek to redress the grievances of Ireland, be gan to agitate the repeal of the Union.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Member had taught the people to withhold their confidence, and to have only confidence in t ,enaselves. The Hurlers of Tipperary had taken his ad vice.--( Hear, hear.) 'f he laws, instead of protecting the peaceable and well disposed, were disregarded and trampled down. It was under these eireumatances that he could not conscientiously refuse his Majesty's Government his support. He was not, however, prepared to say that at first sight he would have assented to the whole of the measure—( Hear, hear)—because he had objection; to some parts of it. His wrongest objection was to the courts martial—(Hear)—for his mind revolted at their establish ment; but had any substitute been proposed for them ? Had any Hon. Member who opposed the Bill proposed any substitute? Not one. If there was anything that he objected to in that Bill, it was to the introduction of a military tribunal. Nothing would induce him to support this portion of the Bill, if any other means of carrying its other provisions into effect could be determined upon in Committee. He must say that Ministers, in taking upon themselves this fearful responsibility—(Hear)—had done so as if the change about to tae made were a light one. He hoped the Bill, if passed, might yet be found unnecessary, —(Cheers.) Mr. D. W. HARVEY was convinced of the sincerity of tile principles of the Hon. Baronet who had just re sumed his seat. Among other things he bad truly said, that this Bill might, ere long, be applied to Engl and, and he was prepared to concede that if similar circumstances occurred in this country as in Ireland, the Ministers ought to be armed with corresponding power. This, in fact, was just what the opponents of the Bill apprehended.— (Hear.) At present the measure was narrowed to Ire land, but who should say how soon, and before the people of England were at all prepared for it, it might be applied to them ? Comparing the situation of England and of Ireland, he (Mr. D. W. Harvey) would ask, in what part of Ireland had raged a conflagration which desolated one of the first commercial cities of the empire ?—(Cheers.) What castle of Ireland had smoked with rebellious fires like that of Nottingham ?—(Cheers.) What agrarious disturbances had convulsed any county of Ireland as Exaggerateopnuet of together,t h t n h s e e t they had co nvu l se d Hampshire? (Great cheering.) qa nu c ca tt el s is e e do, o f f e citriilmere Governmentiiinllarterl atrocity cn a idt s y, ) o n. o r our i a n l'louo disregard d lhneorat of law, what h a d b een d one i n England.—(Hear, hear.) One thing had peculiarly struck him in the course of this long, but not too long debate; he alluded to the enormous debt of gratitude on the part of Ministers to the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin.—(Cheers and laughter.) His speeches might not always he characterised by the soundest wisdom or discretion, but recollecting the course he bad so long pursued, the title of the Bill upon the table ought rather to have been " A Bill to put down tlo patriotic efforts of the Member for Dublin." This recog nition of his importance was due from those who were se deeply indebted to him; for the Rossini Catholic claim• would not to this day have been conceded but for the ex ertion of his talents—the Whigs had long been entangled in the difficulties of the subject, and he had at last remove , die stumbling block to their re-admission into office Notwithstanding their obligations, the Bill was directs'' only against him, and die Constitution of Ireland was to h. sacrificed, and that of England threatened, in order ti• silence him. As to rite question of the repeal of the le gislative Union, if ally man thought the continuance of i' injurious to the one country or to the other, he was a liberty, in the House or out of it, to advocate the re peal of that law as he would the repeal of a Turnpik Bill. If the Union could not be maintained upon i • merits—if it were not sanctified by its utility, it (nigh , to be abrogated Were Ministers afraid cf meeting de question, or rather were they willing only to meet it by measure which stifled all discussion ?—(Cheers.) H. (Mr. D. W. Harvey) believed that if the Bill on the tahl passed and received the Royal assent, if the present Mini sters remained in office, within twelve months it wool , be applied to England.—(Cheers and laughter.) If Ali nisters were true to their own principles, such must be th. result. He begeed to ask whether Government though they were upon a bed of roses—he meant as to the expec tations of the country? When Reform ended. expectation. began, and he believed that the people at this time hail strong confidence in the deliberations and decisions of the House of Commons—that it was, in fact, the mirror of the public mind; and he believed it would be difficult at this time to get up a county meeting upon almost any subject, since it would be urged that it was needless to in terfere with a House of Commons that could be trusted, al to impede a Ministry that had only in view the general wel fare of the empire. If, however, the people saw that the re formed House of Commons was resolved to adopt this Bill. after such silky representations as had been heard from the Noble Lord, they would soon withdraw their confidence. He was satisfied that there existed a strong tie of sympa thy between the people of England and the people of Ire land, notwithstanding all that had been said and done to prevent it. The people of England would take part with their brethren of Ireland, and if meetings should be held in this country requiring the House to repeal the legisla tive Union, what answer would be made to their demand ? Would Ministers put down meetings in Ireland while they encouraged them in England ? Would they convert the people of England into advocates for a repeal of the Union, as their only mode of showing their sense of the oppres sion inflicted upon Ireland ? Having offered these preli winery observations, he was anxious to make a few re marks upon the measure itself. It had been said, among other things, that Ministers has irded their fame and their places upon the measure. That declaration reflected infinite honour upon them, because it clearly de veloped the line of policy in which they meant to perse vere. He was willing to give them the full measure of praise they deserved : he owed them no obligations, nor they him. He would examine the measure, therefore. and not criticise the men ; and as to the question of a change in the Cabinet, he must say, that of all the evils that could befal the country, none would be greater than that there should be no change of Administration— (Laughter)—that there was only one body of men whose heats were so crowded with intellect and intelligence that they alone were fit for office—that without them all w.iuld he wild confusion—that the Islands of Great Britain would be cut from their cables, and drift at will upon the wide waters, unknown and unpiried. To such a pass this country need never come ; for thousands of Ministers, and of good Ministers, too, were to be found in half the Political Unions of the kingdom.—(Laughter.) Time had been when the art of government was a mystery; now, noshing was more simple. He should not, the: of ire, be deterred in his vote by any fear lest another Govern• ment could not be lot med. He was not alarmed even at the idea of a Tory Government.—(Laughter from all sides.) Let Ministers pass this Bill, and they would soon find, like one of the Members for Westminster, that they were in an uncomfortable situation. But Tories could not remain in office longer than Whigs, if the people did not sanction their measures—(Loud cheers) — and, in his conscience, he believed that the best Government for the country would be a Tory Ministry, acting under the recollection of their former errors. —(Much laughter.) The truth was, that the cause of the people was never more deserted than a t thi s tnoment. Suppose a Tory Minister had come down upon this question with his red box and his thirteen cases spread over fourteen months, toe Whigs would hay, started in a phalanx from the Opposition Benches to re situ it, and it would have been impossible for the Speaker to decide which of the eager ()tabus had first caught his eye.—(Laughter.) They would have talked of the House of Brunswick, of the Constitution, of the laws, and what not; and of their predeces-ore, the Somersee, the Russells, and the Hamdens, while the Tory Government would have been denounced as a Cabinet of traitors, united for the destruction of the liberties of the country.—(Cheers.) He would not go into the particular clauses of the Bill, but say of the whole, that it was a concentration of con spiracies against the liberties of the country ; and it was idle to talk of the time occupied in the discussion of it, or impatiently to reiterate the cry of " Question " on the third nigot of debate, since the millenium ought to arrive before the House decided in favour of the measure.— (Cheers.) What was the Bill? In one clause it sus pended the Habeas Corpus Act—in another it esta blished courtsinartial—in a third it placed the whole of Ireland under the arbitrary nod of one man—in a fourth it abolished the trial by jury—in a fifth, it sounded, by a tremendous proclamati n, the blast of death over the entire kingdom—and, finally, it rendered the Press sub servient to this monstrous ty ranny.—(Cheers.) Where the Attorney-General could find assistance iu drawin g this Bill he knew not, but it seemed to him (Mr. D. W. Harvey) that the Right Hon. Gentleman must have sought counsel in the lowest depths of Hell, for there only could adequate advisers be discovered.—(Laughter.) Has opinions upon this subject were in complete accordance with those of a great man, the hatchets of whose shoes his successors were not worthy to unloose, Lord Chat ham ; whose expressions had been quoted by the late Lord Erskine, in a speech which he delivered in 1'797. " If," said Lord Chatham, " we mean to unite the nation within itself, we must convince them that their com plaints are regarded, and that their grievances shall be re dressed. On that foundation, I would talcs the lead in recommending peace and harmony to the people ; on any other, I would never wish to see them united again. It the breach in the Constitution be effectually restored, the people will of themselves return to a state of tran quillity ; if not, may discord for ever prevail. I know to what point this doctrine and language will appear directed, but I feel the principles of an Englishman, and I utter them without apprehension or reserve. The crisis is indeed alarming, and it requires so much the more prudence on the part of Government." Lord Chatham went on to state, that rather than the birthrights of Englishmen should be surrendered to a despotic Minister, old as he was, he yet hoped to see the question brought to issue between the people and the Government. It was a matter worthy, in an especial degree, the attention of the House, that the present Bill was introduced—not into that, but into the other House of Parliament. He must be allowed to express considerable regret that the measure should not have originated with the Commons, and not to have been made to proceed from that branch of the Legislature with which the people had the least sympathy. He should apply himself exclusively to the real question before the House, which in some sort divided itself into two parts—the quality and provisions of the Bill consi• dered by themselves, and the condition of public affairs which were said to have given occasion for such a mea sure. That condition of affairs was one for which the present Ministers of the Crown were answerable. Why had they permitted things to arrive at such a crisis—why had there not been means taken to have confided the go vernment of Ireland to such an individual as the Duke of Sussex—(Cries of " Oh, oh !")—to the brother of the King—to him who was beloved by the people of Ireland, and who would have governed them, and who would have associated with him in the government of Ireland persons really acceptable to the people of that country. If that Illustrious Personage had gone to Ireland with the charter of the people's liberties in his hand, making them in deed, and not in name, united with the people of this country, then would such a Bill as now disgraced the annals of British legislation not have been necessary, even in ap pearance—lie never could admit that it was so in reality. They had the measure of coercion—they were sure of that ; the measure of coercion was put beyond all possi bility of uncertainty ; but bow stood it with the measures of concession ? Only one bad been proposed, and that was by no means placed upon so safe a position as tht t which had been occupied on behalf of the measure then 'aid upon the table of the House of Commons. if those measures were really intended to he concurrent, why were they not made to run together? If the measure of se verity was to proceed from their Lordship., why did not the healing measure come likewise?—(ll ar, hear.) Why did not some Memb-r of the Holy Bench propose to —form the Church, and do away with the Church c-as ?—(Hear, hear) He was aware that it might b, the fact, that some technical objecion existed to the ii.- :roduction of any measure connected with zess, in ant 'lace except the House of Commons, but he would repeat the question—why did not the measure of Church Reform,. originate in the other House ? No; the Ministers thought proper in effect to tell the clergy, we are unpopular with -he Lords ; we are suspected'by the people ; but be as cured of this, that we will abrogate the Constitution in Ir.dand rather than you should lose one particle of your tithe. Yes, the Ministers of the Crown were prepared t o abrogate the Constitution—they were prepared to put an and to the bond of mutual allegiance and protection--they denied pr itection to the people of Ireland—there woe .nillions in that country wholly unnrotected : they granted to the Trish the rights of sepulchre, and that they called yielding them protection. It had been affirmed, and n ver with effect denied, that the obligations of allegiance and protection were mutual—every human being wh.• breathed the air of Heaven was entitled to protection and to fond so long as he gave his labour ; that was the condition upon which human existence depended, and whosoever attempted to abolish that inevitable condition ot our nature, attempte , l what happily was as impracticable ait was nefarious. The knot, however, was sought ti he eut by the declaration that the Irish were a people dif erent from any other ; that what might do very well for e English, would not answer at all for their more mer curial neighbours ; that the Irish were to be kept down sty a system of legislation wholly at variance with British law and British constitutional principles. That, he hesi tated not to say, was one of the foulest libels that could be pronounced upon the Irish people ; and, as coining from Englishmen, it was fraught with the deep stain of ingrati ude ; and it was a reproach, be it remembered, that was never uttered in the hour of danger. No, the value of the Irish was well understood in the moment of peril ; their generous and devoted spirit was appreciated when the enemies of England thundered at her gates, but in the hour of peace and security those services of an oppressed people were forgotten, and nothing was heard hut the language of threat and of hostility. It had become an old constitutional maxim in England, that every man's house was his castle ; but the new system of legislation for Ire land would turn every cottage from that which it ought to be—namely, the castle of its owner—into a gaol ; the tenant of a cottage was not for a moment to step over his own threshold, he was not to go forth to enjoy the light or the air of heaven, without rendering an account that should satisfy the inquisitorial police. Why, if the poor man was confined to his cottage, did not the rich man go home to his castle?—Why did not the Govern ment use the means within its reach for the purpose of sending home the rich man, and compelling him to become the protector of the poor? Mr. Fox, the leader of that party which the present Administration professed to follow, had said, with reference to a measure far less objectionable, that it was one which should on no account be acceded to, without evidence gone into before the House or before a Committee. To decide upon such a measure without evidence, or even with evidence, except in a case of ex treme necessity, was too detestable to be imputed to any Government on less authority than on their own admis sion. Hr asked, was it possible that the good feeling of the people of England could be insulted with any proposi tion so monstrous—a proposith,n which amounted to nothing less than the total annihilation of public liberty ? Ile hoped that the people would take due alarm at ti prospect before them—that they would assemble and sue cesafully oppose a Government intent upon the deetroction of all freedom. He went on to ask, what freize could have seized the Ministry of the time? He (Mr. H ) would ask the descendants of the party which Mr. Ea led, to answer the question.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") Lord J. RUSSELL began by observing, that the doc trines of the Hon. Member who had last addressed the House, would, if followed out to their consequences, pre sent principles fraught with the destruction of property, the dissolution of society, and an end to everything lik good older and civilisation. The Noble Lord then pro. ceeded to contend that the measure before the House Into been imposed by flatting less than the highest degree o: necessity; and when that necessity had not been dis proved, were they to be told that 'he proper mode meeting it would be by putting matters (if for a fort night? If any course could be full of weakn-ss, it was ,hat. If the remedy were required, it was the duty of Parliament to apply it boldly, and if not, they were calls, upon to put a direct negative upon the proposition. It the responsible advisers of the Crown were to say that they would not give protection to life and property it. Ireland, they were bound at once to abandon their place it, the Councils of his Majesty. Were they to allow the White feet to govern the country. or were they to permit the dictation of one who " wielded the fierce democracy' ef Ireland, or were they, as they ought, to eat iblist the sovereignty of Parliament and of the law? Thu lion. Member for Colchester had said that the best government for the country in the present times would he a Tory Government wise enough to correct its Oirtnei errors. He was sure that the Right Hon. Baronet opposite would not he very ready to assist in forming an administration whose tenure of office dep-nded upon such support as they might derive front gentlemen of the same principles as those of the Hon. Member for Colc:iester.— (Hear, hear, from Sir R. Peel.) Five years ago, in 1828, gentlemen were accustomed to speak in the manner the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who last addressed the Hone had done. They used, as he had done, to inveigh against the impolicy of legislating for one individual. To see whether it was impolitic or not, it would he necessary to go a little into the history of Ireland for the last few years. The Catholic question long agitated that country, and was long debated in that House. The Hon. Gentlemen who sat on the opposite benches were neatly unanimous in its support, whilst those who sat on his side the House wen divided in their sentiments ; and those who were against the measure bad the support of the Crown, whilst all were open to its influence. This being then the feeling of that House upon Catholic Emancipation, the effect of it was, that at length there came a period when a single in divitiugl, appealing to the wants and to the passions of the Irish Catholics, acquired an influence and a power over their minds that formed one of the most extraordi nary cases to be met with in any history. Under the influence and the guidance of that individual, at. association was farmed which collected taxes, interfered with trials, directed public opinion, and absolutely usurped all the functions of the Government of the country. When Parliament met, after the vacation, it saw the necessity of bringing in a Bill granting Catholic Emancipation, and soon after of granting full powers to the Lord Lieutenant to put down the Catholic Association. It was expected that that Association would have ceased as soon as Eman cipation was accorded. But no, the power the person before-mentioned held, in consequence of the denial or Catholic claims, was not withdrawn from him by the Irish people. Through gratitude, or through some other motive, they still adhered to him, and were prepared to adopt whatever measures he advised. That power and influence he still held, and wished seemingly to retain it, from what motives it was not easy to divine ; they may be motives of personal aggrandisement, of a double ambi tion, or they may be motives of the purest patriotism. No one knew. However, that individual continued to recom mend agitation for certain porpoises, of course only known to himself. If he was the cause of having the attention of the Legislature directed to Ireland five years ago, it could not be made a matter of complaint against the present Government, if he was again the cause at the present time. The measures that the Government then pursued, were different from those it was called upon now to pursue. The agitation of Ireland is the first and second instance was different. During the first agitation, this extraordinary case happened, that a people excited by their wants and passions still preserved the peace, and this Catholic Associa tion was seen most active, and happily most efficacious in preventing outrage. The result of the second Association was not the same; on the cont rar y, it was quite different; f o r, as soon as it began, it commenced with such scenes of insubordination and outrage, that the ordinary laws were not found sufficient to suppress them. Out of 160 out rage! which happened last year, not one was for tithes. During December last there was committed every species of outrage; and in last February, up to the 18th, six or eight outrages had been perpetrated, every one oi ' which related to the surrender of lands; so that it was clear that this second agitation was not purely a political (PRICE 713.) one. It was one set on foot hy the example of those who said they had grievances to redress, and a right to resist certain measures of Government. So far this agitating iitsrl a politieal con action. The Whitefeet imitated the example set them by the political agitators. Su c h hei g the actual state of things at present in Ireland, his Nobie Friend the Chancellor of the Exch. r, and his Rielit Hen. Friend the Secretary for Ireland, had given to the House the details of the measure v hich they intended to remedy that state of things. Of course the chief qms. Lion was how to effectually prevent outrage. The Hon. and Learned Member for Tipp- rary was anxious that c iurtsmartial should not be invested with the powers pro posed to be granted to them. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman's anxiety proceeded no doubt fromea feeling of humanity, and lie (Lord J. Russell) applauded that humanity; but whilst he did so, he did not think it very generous, nor very just, to reserve all cutup tssion for true authors of those outrages, and none for the victims of them. Having made these remarks, he would now come more immediately to the Bill itself. It did not, as war repeatedly asserted, put down all meetings, and forbid the right of petitioning. 'What it did was, that it granted es the Lori Lieutenant the [Kame r of not authorizing, in disturbed districts, certain meetin g s and petitions. It cer tainly did prevent generally meeting s which the Lord Lieutenant should consider dangerous to the public peace, and it give him the power of preventing tte boldest: of such meetings. There were two provisions in the Bill which chiefly met with the objections of its opponents. The first of those provisions was that which gave the power cut trying offences to Military Courts. With re seect to those objections, and to that protesion, he begged to ask in whom could they better place such powers than in the hands of military officers ?_.(Heir, hear.) It tad been suggested that it would be better to place such powers in the hands of King's Counsel and Sergeants at- Law, assisted by the gentry of the country as special jurors. He did not think the ••114geStion good, arid entirely agreed with his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member far Leeds, that when it was found necessary to depart trent the Con stitution the new measures adopted should bear little or no resemblance to that Constitution. It %vas a bad ,!ring, et endeavouring to preserve the- shadow of an inetitutiaArs t • lose the substance of it.—(Hear ) With respect to the suspension of the Habeas Corpu• Act, he would say. bat if tnose who first felt titemseives c tiled upon to atespeiel it had time ot e s u i p stinietl enjoyed ni co e m . be ti n u e t fi . t i s tte . attempted u steo it t basil t 11a with it and fritter it aw a y, t h ey wou l d not b e at the jetieseas i m teen suspended, and that full power had been given to the King to seize and to arrest, without limit or control, whom soever he pleased—because, he repeated, this had been done, they could now boast of possessing that Act entire, both in name and in reality: It was for that reason that he recommended a tribunal in the present instance that should bear no resemblance to the ordinary ones. Milt ,otr,:ihaifft te r ayat y nt:t jto m arson, e eelfdy n ylorixffi; w .v: ci e :baou r eunm e lrddtsm a .ib e c ivfe c nhic u eT: s ig t mimaii n eti m eiragme e ush i wes i ti en, ai t d: o sviht aait t )iodr i nis y tosno i bue i , j ffi icdtue. heiccr);etssistaaooin: species urtefiictiam.)harif.eloi:e.tsgubhtofe::Bgtitlalolei ha pen etaph: " , i enog i sn d e-e. it had been stipulated that their age was not t be under 21,1 it was supposed that the majority of courts would be composed of officers of that age, just its if that assembly was composed of a majority of burgesses of 21 years of age, and possessing 3001. a year. With respect to the clause that stipulated that they should have been two years in the army, he thought it a very proper one ; for were it not for it, officers of three weeks' service only, provided they were 21 years old, might sit as Judges. He flaw no reason whatever why persons of that age, and educated as they were, should not make as good and as impartial Judges as any Jury of the country. The other provision objected to referred to domiciliary visits. lie also had objections to them, but they were partly done away with when he saw the almost universal consent that the Hon. Members, natives of Ireland, gave to those measures, or to ones nearly similar. What erre the pt ovi -ions of the Irish Committee which sat last year? The Hon. Member for Tipperary might say that they did not recoin mend domiciliary visits. They recommended something very like them, when they thought that if a person was not absent more than once he might be held to bail, but if found absent from his home after nightfall a second time, he should be liable to imprisonment. Even, if on fii• first .bsence he could not find bail before the quarter sessions, ice was liable to be committed. The warrant was to be executed by magistrates, and if the court was not satisfied it to the cause of absence it would convict. Constato aitly there was no question of jury, and the Committee were of ipetion that persons absent from their houses a second ime, were liable to the punishment of the court. This was the crime proposed to be panelled by the present I lay. The Hun. and Learned Member for Tipperary hail aduded to certain changes that had taken place in the opinions, of Ministers, and the Hon. and Learned Member for Col chester had said with a taunt that if such a measure had 'alien proposed when they were out of office by an opoosite eirty, they would have risen in file to oppose it. Now, let such assertions be contradic ed by facts. In 1823, the then existing Governtnint Caine emcees , ' at the very beginning of the session, and proposed the t•usp. , nsion of the Habeas Corpus Act, and the enactment of the Itisur rectiou Act. That ALnistry did so just in the sauce way .s the present. Trey instituted no inquir%, tit:y consulted no committees; but they proceeded in the right way when such laws es the present were to be passed. They took, Is they ought to do, all respensibility upon their own , cads. On the filet reading of the Bi 1 a division took .dace, the result of which was a very ionall minority, and Lod Lonaooderry wished that it should be read a second cod a third time that very evening, in order to be able to send it to the Loris nest day, and obtain his Mijesty's ,ssent on the Saturday following. It was not rend a se cond and a third time that day ; but within a week both 'wasters were passed and sent to Leland. New if the Administration of the day met with the opposition that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who last addressed the House had stated it bad met, it could not have passed .hose Bills within the short space of a week. It must be the opinion of all, that such Acts were passed only when the absolute necessity of the case was made out. When the necessity was such, he thought that if such measures vere proposed in Committee, even the Hon. and I,..Ntrned Member far Dublin himself would not have opposed them. That lion. and Learned Member had admitted that the greatest sufferers were not the Protestants, but that the Ca tholics suffered equally as much; and he also admitted that those who were found out by night ought to be considered suilty of misdemeanor, or something very like it. He maintained that no argument could be adduced to prove the inconsistency of the present Government with respect ro those ineasuies. This was a case in which every one bad to judge for himself, and to determine whether the severe measures proposed were necessary or not. If they were not, let the laws remain as they were; but if those measures were thought necessary, no Hon. Aletnber that -bought theta so should shrink from his duty and hesitate voting for them.—(Hear.) The House might be assured that whatever ameliorations were intended for Ireland, they could not be put into practice until property was ,e -cured and life rendered safe. This measure proposed to lo that, and was therefore the first step towards ameliora tion. It was in vain to talk of employment for the poor, whilst the inland trade of the country was interrupted by winds of reckless ruffians ; it was folly to hope that the Englishman, or any other man, would risk his capital in speculating in Ireland, when he might every hour expect see the improvements he had made destroyed, and the persons he employed to conduct his business murdered at loon-day. If they wished to impr ive the condition of Ireland, they would not be doing their duty if they con sented to have property insecure and life time sport of every ruffian. By passing these measures, they would put an -rid to the outrages that afflicted a whole country, and preserve intact the imperial laws of the United Kingdom. He confessed himself one of those, though reluctantly, who supported those measures; and he considered all those who did support them to be the best and steadiest riends of the peace, prosperity, and liberty of Ireland. Mr. 11. GRATTAN agreed with the Noble Lord op posite, that Whiteboyism ought to be put down, but dif fered from the Noble Lord, in thinking that the Constitution ought to be put down also. Whitefeet could be put down w tr t o ho rd u i n t ar y putting if t w h e d y o co n u l t d h e Constitution. not;and tti It econs w t itu o t u i o l he x trans omitted to them by the Noble Lord's ancestors would be of little value indeed, if it could be broken through by a few iniserab'e Whitefeet. How weak must the fabric of that Constitution be, if it permitted a few wretches to baffle she Government, and destroy the laws of the Alipistii He had heard much of the necessity of these meastitn; but he would ask one question—he would ask whether, at the time of the invasion of Ireland by a foreign foe—whether, at the time that country was in open rebellion, there was me instance of measures like the present having been prof posed ?—(llear.) He would challenge the Treasury Bench o find, in the library of that House, a single book in which such a gross infringement of the Constitution was ures Yet this r ef i . a e :t i t yh the subunit ifla men tioned. Why, the Noble Mover of these measures Pol''nwias made when 500 men, attack upon constitutio t n h a e l co untry, could do away with the sided by the gentry . of If the gentry of the country had ust c ws i outrages complained of. h Member i o e t t n h h k e e i r p l i r r i i, e o s s h u e. n n a nt t A r l ie y n e po f r b ao 0 1: r e f s t a h o e d o i x e n t eui g r e o hl i t r e a ! gyhie,e ed" as 4t, , en t have fae risen to th e Wexford had given, these outr age s wou ld not frightful height they were at no T. The