The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-28 00:00:00

.. • .. titude to the people of Ireland. Two years ago, when the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin was seeking etre - nuously, but by legal and constitutional means, for a repeal of the Union, he (Mr. Attwooh) had expressed to hhn his opinion of the tendency his proceedings might have to de'ay the final triumph of the great measure of Reform—he besought him fur a time to forego that mea sure for the sake of the country at large—not to strive for a particular benefit till they had secured the common li herty of all.--(Hear, hear.) That Hon. and Learned Gentleman did suspend his efforts (Laughter and cheers.) his countrymen generously gave up the con sideration of private wrongs to assist in redressing the common wrongs of all—(Cheers) —they generously aban doned local feelings for the general interest of the whole einuire.—(Cheers.) They cerr:erl, by this means, the Reform Bill peacefully and legally, which, without such disinterestedness —without such noble aid—they never could have done for years, or without shedding oceans of blood. He asked whether they were to repay such im mense services by the blackest ineratitude—whether they were to prepare dungeons and halters for those men whose support in the hour of need they bad so gladly availed themselves of?—(Hear, hear.) Was it befitting the con duct of gentlemen and men of honour to turn the weapon against the breasts of those who had shielded and fought for them ?—(Hear, hear.) But be would not occupy the House any further upon the subject. He urged the Noble Lord, on whom he really believed all man kind looked with respect, to pause "yet a little mo ment" in his career—to stop on the threshold—to consider that he was on the brink of a gulph, the depth of which no man's eye could tell. A little pause, and this deep and mighty gulph might yet be avoided—some measure of a more palliating character might be introduced, and so all feelings and a'l interests be consulted.—(Herr, hear.) He had no donbt that in six months from that time, with out resorting to any measures of blood, without infringing on the glorious legacies their fathers had left them, the whole people of Ireland might be rendered happy, con tented, and peaceful. If, instead of this Bill, Ministers would send a special commission—not a commission to drink the blood of the unfortunate peasantry—but a come mission of peace; if the House would agree to this, and adopt measures that he wouid prnpe-e (as amidst general cries of " Question" we understood the Hon. Gentle man), he pledged himself there would he no more dis tress, and that these lamentable disturbances wooll at once be discontinued.—(" Question, question.") Why not writ a little time to consider, ere they took such a questionable step ? If the motion were not granted, he would, by every power of body and soul, resist this mor tal me Isere to the last.—(Cheers.) Mr. O'CONNELL entreated the Hon. Member to withdraw his motion.—(Hear, hear.) They would have ample opportunities of discussing every point connected with the Bill ; and he would suggest they had better give up all desultory warfare. They would not fail to show, hereafter, how far from being content they were with what the Hon. Secretary had in that show-box which he was prepared to submit to the House (alluding to a reel box in which Ministerial papers are generally brought down to the House). He should like to know who stuffed that box, in the absence of all the friends of Ireland. On the last occasion in which the people of Ireland had been drawn into crime, it was through the operation of the Tithe Bill. It was true that some excesses had been com mitted ; but was a whole nation to be deprived of its liberty on acc , unt of the misdeeds of a few miscreants? Surely not. Means such as these would never bring the country to a state of quiet; and the Government ought to know this, for they had already found compulcon un equal to the enforcement of their own Tithe Bill. Mr. ROCHE consented to withdraw his motion. He hoped that people from the other side of the water would not be considered as Arabs in the sight of those who were here. He threw back the defiance that had been uttered by the Right Hon. Secretary. As a man whose wife and family and property were all now in the country that was ro be the subject of these measures—as one having every thing that he held dear in that country—be wished for the information that the papers he had moved for con tained. He had no improper motives in asking for these papers, and only wished to obtain the best information on do . • -:ant subject. He trusted that the House would petite .os to themselves, for it 'serend not only to his country but .ihrough the side of h• country that themselves couldbe SUPPRESSION OF' DISTURBANCE f,,..,..._ BILL. Lord ALTHORP moved the Order of the Day for the first reading of this Bid. On the motion being put, many " Noes" were heard ; but on the Speaker asking whether , he House was to be divided, was aneweeed in the nega tive, and the Order of the Day was then read. Lord ALTHORP then addressed the Home to the fol lowing e ffec :—I can assure the House, Sir, that I make the proposition which I am now about to submit to their Attention, deeply fee-line how difficult it must be for any man to address such an assembly as the present, and to ask such men as I now see assembled to erant to any Go vernment the p iwers I note come to seek at their hands. The whole course of my political life has been such as to make it against my opinion to come forward with such a proposition ; and nothing could have induced me to do so except the feelings, which are strongly impressed on my mind, of the absolute necessity of the measure. As I feel I shall have to detain the House a considerable length of time, it is of course desirable that I should not preface my arguments by many rem irks, and I shall, therefore, at once proceed to the question now before the House, and submit the grounds on which the Government feel called upon to ask the assistance of Parliament. I feel that it is necessary for me, in order to lay the ground for this motion, to prove that the state of some parts of Ireland is such as to require some remedy of an extraordinary nature, and not only to prove this, but to show that such is the state of those parts of Ireland, that almost any remedy is better than their present. I must show, in the next place, that the ordinary law is insufficient to aff ird such a remedy; and thirdly, I must show that the provi sions of the Bill, which lam now about to lay before the House, are such as will provide a remedy for those evils, to repress which the ordinary law is inadequate. If I am able to prove these things, I shall have made out a case —such a case as the Government are called on to make out, in order to justify the course they now recommend. In endeavouring to prove these things, I shall state the grounds which have induced me to think that the case! have mentioned is fully made out. The first ground is the state of the disturbances in Ireland. The insecurity of life and property in which Ireland is at present placed, owing to what causes it may be, is such that unless it can be proved that another remedy would afford some allevia tion of the evil, it does require the interposition of this House to provide the remedy I now propose. Ido not know how I can better enter upon that part of the subject than by stating the number of cases in which.the laws have been not only grossly violated, but set at utter defi ance. The number of these cases may be tedious ; but in a case of such interest as this, in which the House will require strong proof in order to induce them to adopt such extraordinary measures, I think it is better I should be tedious, than that I should leave the case short of what I am able to prove. I will take this opportunity of observ ing, that the motion which has been just made and with drawn, is not indispensable. It is a motion for an account of all the disturbances that have taken place within the last three years. It would be impossible at this moment, and in time for this discussion, to give that general ret ern, but the statement I shall make will include the greater part of these particular instances, and give the sum total in a few peas of Ireland at least. The fearful extent of the disturb inces in Ireland is already well known. lam confirmed in that statement by the Members for Ireland—by those who are most opposed to this measure—that the White foot outrages have been of a most enormous description; and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself almost ad mits that something like the Insurrection Act might— (Mr. O'Connell was understood to express his dissent) — at least, that persons ought to be prevented from leaving their houses at night.—(Mr. O'Connell again expressed his dissent.) I understood that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had been of that opinion ; but, as he denies it, of course I must be mistaken, and I shall not press that point further. But the Hon. Member did admit =hat the state of Ireland was such as was .most dangerous to the public peace—that in some parts of Ireland the pea santry were in arms—that the country was in danger of imtnediate insurrection—and that it behoved them to he extraordinarily careful as to the measures they introduced. That was the statement as to the condition of the coun try made by the Hon. and Learned Member—by that Member tf the House, who, I have no doubt, will offer the most efficient and powerful opposition to the motion. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman supposes that the con tents of this box have been collected without the concur rence of the parties who are accused of the disturbances. The documents here contained t'hre official documents — such as would have been laid on the table of the House, if the motion of the Hon. Member for Cashel.had been car ried—suchAocurnents as would, if w e had proceeded in the old form, have been laid before the Committee, and such as those on which a report would have been 'Made by the Com mittee to this House. The firm case which I shall state to the House is the case of the murder of a man named Farrel. A large body of men, some armed with guns and some with pistols, assembled in the month of February last, at Castle Comer, in the county of Kilkenny. They entire I the house of Farrel, who was tenant of a person named Cavanah, and, in the words of a survivor, " without - 1'1) giving him one second to say his prayers, shot him, like a dog, through the head."--(Hear, hear.) The next case is that of the murder of a man named Potts. That was in March last. Potts was the engineer of a colliery in the county of Kilkenny, and that murder was cammit ed at noon day, in the presence of fifty persons, and within one quarter of a mile of the head quarters of a regiment. Potts was oleo at by four men, who, after de;og thie• walked quietly away.-(Hear, hear, hear.) They did this in the presence of fifty persons, and yet no attempt had been made either to arrest them or prevent the out rage being committed. The third case is that of the murder of a man named Marrorn. That occurred on the 27th of July, at the hour of between nine and ten o'clock in the forenoon. Marrom left his lodge, which was close to a colliery, in the barony of Gowry, and within a mile of a place where an outrage had been committed some time previously. He went into his carpenter's shop, and had scarcely got in when three men came in, armed with guns, and shot at and wounded him, and then beat him down and despatched him with the butt-end of their guns.-(Hear, hear.) The next case occurred in Cashel, on the 26th of August. That was the case of the murder of Willi sin Shea, which was committed at five o'clock in the afternoon. lie was murdered while sitting at the table of a room-in a public-house, in company with two or three other men. The murder was committed by two fellows, who entered the room armed with guns, and having their faces blackened : they ordered Shea to [pi on hie knees, and instantly shot him dead.-(Hear, hear.) The next case was one which had occurred at Portarling ton, on the 23d Sept. last. It was not a else of actual murder, but of an outrageous attack that might have led to murder. There was assembled an armed party of men, one of whom shot at another person and lodged some slugs in his breast, and the ruffians afterwards beat him most violently. The next was the case of the murder of Mr. Houston, who was a most respectable clergyman, of 80 years of age-(Hear, hear)-and who was murdered within one mile of his own residence. This murder took place on the border of Queen's County and Kilkenny, upon the 25th of October last. It is stated in the account 1 have received, that he was a most inoffensive and quiet man, and was generally respected. I believe, indeed, that he had been guilty of the crime of collecting his tithes. In this case, I know it has been stated, that the cause of the murder was in consequence of a quarrel with a drunken servant upon his grounds, but the person, who was taken up immediately afterwards upon suspicion of having com mitted the murder, was not at all drunk ; so that, if such an outrage could in the least degree be tx cused by such a circumstance, and in my opinion it cannot, that excuse did not exist in this case.-(Hear, hear.) Another case is that of a gross attack upon Abra ham Madox, committed on the 23d of November last. An attack was made on the house in which be lived, and it was set fire to. Two constables bad been placed there for its protection, one of them was immediately murdered, and Madox's wife and daughter were so se verely wounded that they rived only two hours afterwards; Madox's son was also dangerously wounded. John Weide was the person at whose instigation this brutal murder was committed, and it appeared that he had been many mouths before dispossessed of some laud by Madox, That was one of the instances in which, atter a long interval, the purpose of revenge had been shockingly accomplished. On the sth of December last, an attack of a similar kind was made by a party consisting of about fifty into, up. the house of a person who had off-nded the assailants in a manner similar to that of Madox. One shot had killed one man, and wounded another in the house, which was then set tire to and burnt, and several peopl- were buried in the ruins. The reason for the attack was, that the former tenant bad been ejected for non-payment of rent. In another case several tenants had been removed from their premises for a similar cause, and other tenants had been put into possession. A man named Joyce wis one of these new tenant. Hie house was surrounded with armed men-the door was removed, it was set fire to; Joyce was dragged out to some little distance, and there shot dead. The same party afterwards went to the house of a min named Baldwin, and set fire to it ; they then went to the house of a man named Maplesden ; one of the party fired at and wounded him, and he was now lying in great danger of his life. I now come to the case of the county of Kildare. On the 10th of last January a most cruel murder wrs committed at Youghal, upon a te nant of the Duke of Devonshire, a person of the name of Goward, who was shot dead by the party that at • him. That wa.+, 1 know, a murder in consequence of previous pr 050.....• • t, euppotted that the man murdered had before set anon; re. , be e t the other party. The provocation, no doubt, if it had was gross and aggravating ; but it was not to he reveng.,i by a murder, an outrage of so much deeper a dye. The next case is tt at of a man who was charged on oath with sending the Whitt feet to shoot his brother. That case arose, I believe, out of some quarrel relative to the posses sion of three acres of land. That person has been com mitted to take his trial on this charge, and I shall, there fore, not mention his name.-[Mr. O'Connell asked for tie date of the trans iction.l -The date is the 25th of January. I have spoken of these, Sir, as cases of great outrige. I have selected them as such, and I lay them before the House, confident as to the impression they must create. I have detained the House some time in stating these cases, but consider tble as is their number, they are not nearly so numerous as the cases I could have produced, had I gone through the whole list of those of which in formation has been furnished us. The next point is that which has been referred to so much by the Hon. Member opposite, who says that these outrages are not worse, nor more numerous than they have been within the last two or three years. I shall he able to prove, Sir, in answer to that observation, that they have been increasing during these past years. The first statemeut I shall make on this part of the subject will not be by way of comparison, but to show the number of offences of an insurrectionary kind committed in Leinster, during the last year. That statement shows that during that period the number of murders, or of attempts to murder, within the single province of Leinster, has been 163 ; of robberies, 387 ; of burglaries, 1,823 ; of burnings, 194 ; of houghing cattle, 70 ; of serious assaults, 744 ; of illegal notices, 913 ; and of wilful and malicious injuries to property, 407. If we compare that statement with the account of preceding years, the matter will stand thus :--In the three last months of 1829, the number of murders was 10 ; in the corresponding months of 1830, it was 15 ; in those of 1831, it was 47 ; and in those of 1832, it was 44. It was a slight degree less in 1832 than in 1831 ; hut in 1832 there had been an increase of aoove four times the amount of 1829. I shall take the three last months of these several years for the statement of other offences, and I find the account to stand thus :-In 1829, the number of robberies amounted:to 69 ; in 1830, to 154 ; in 1831, to 152 ; and in 1832, to 173. Again, in 1829, the number of burglaries was 39 ; in 1830, it was 94 ; in 1831, it was 251 ; and in 1832, it was 532. In 1829, the number of burnings was 31 ; in 1830, it was 34; in 1831, it was 29 ; and in 1632, it had reached 77.-( Hear, heir.) In the year 1829, the number of cases of houghing cattle was 13 ; in 1830, it was 20 ; in 1831, it was 17; and in 1832, it was 31. In 1829, the number of cases of serious assault was 45 ; in 1830, it was 54 ; in 1831, it was 89; and in 1832, it was 235. In 1829, the num ber of illegal notices was 49 ; in 1830, it was 79 ; in 1831, it was 172 ; and in 1832, it was 197. In 1829, the number of cases of malicious injury to property was 41 ; in 1830, it was 59 ; in 1831, it was 67 ; and in 1832, it was 134. Taking the whole of these offences, which partook of an insurrectionary character together, the total amount was-in 1829, 300 ; in 1830, it was s 4 comparisonntrl ihe9aew9rc reached v n rkeisenso l scae B etahch 3 ooi.a l gf.tf , htplLa i ete t rahi i e ons v i ntkn a ei s r,osws. 814 ; anti in 1832, it had f-tilhi3la(;E several and ea rc,o thme all ir e, t hs o h ef e a s tr e h. were e pr) i toprovince i ci n l l of Leinster with the whole province of Connaught-a show hav e t t,at occasioned it is n o t t h t e h i e n e p r e e c a u s ; of crimes to which I have alluded. I will take the Queen's County first. In that county there have Erten 40 cases of firing at the person with intent to kill. The num ber of similar attempts in the province of Connaught has been 21-shooting a majority of 19 such attempts in the single county I have mentioned over that of the whole province of Connaught. In the same manner the number of burglaries has been 626 in the Queen's County; in Connaught it has been 345: In the amount of burnings there has been an excess in the province of Connaught over that of the Queen's County-the number of burnings in the former being 91, in the latter 42. In the cases of houghing cattle, the Queen's County exceeds Connaught in the proportion of 115 to 52 ; and there has been a si milar excess with regard to cases of serious assault. By serious assaults, I mean those which tend to the serious injury of the persons attacked. Those who suffer from such assaults would not, I think, be very nice in making distinctions as to the degree of violence with which they were attacked. The proportion of the crimes of this na ture committed in the county of Kilkenny, as compared with the province of Connaught, was somewhat like that of the Queen's County. The excess of murder in Kil kenny was one-of burglaries it was 174 ; the excess of burnings appeared to be in the whole province of Con naught as compared with the county of Kilkenny by the number of 60 ; but in the houghing of cattle there Were three more cases in Kilkenny than in Connaught, and a greater number of serious assaults by's2: In the county of Westmeath, another of the counties of the province of Leinster, the numbers were in similar proportions. I feel that I have detained the House too long by this sort of detail, vhich in the hands of anybody must be te dious. I might go farther, for I have other cases which it vould be easy for me to adduce.—(Hear, and cheers.) have stated tho-e instanc.es which were of the most outrgeous character, —generally where there was actual or ttempted murder ; and I will now, with the uermieeionof the House, read some letters or extracts which seen farther to illustrate the condition of the country.—(The Noble Lord then read passages from va rious letter, the first dated from Kilkenny, 21st Jan. 1833, resieeting outrages principally on the borders of Carlow, aid giving an account of beacons; lighted on the bills, togeher with a statement of the severe duty of the patrol. The next was from Goran, 15th Jan., 1833, also referrng to signal fires on the hills, by which the peaceable nhahitants had been terrified, notwithstanding the paradiag of the police through the streets. A third was from Louth, 19th Jan., 1833, noticing the assembly of immenu bodies of peasantry at night, and the ill usage 1 of persons suspected of being inimical to their proceed. ings, and lie manner in which well-disposed persons were . obliged toseek refuge under the protection of the p olice. It also maitioned a particular fact, that a farmer, who had been in the habit of lending a winnowing-machine to a loyal neiFilhour, had afterwards been compelled to refuse ir, as threats had been used that his premises should be burnt. Other communications of the same tenor repre sented tsat the peasantry were everywhere providing themselves with arms, and making attacks upon the peaceahlt inhabitants. The Noble Lord then conti nued do not know that it is necessary for me to go farther with these individual cases—(Hear, hear, hear) — and I nay mention generally that the situ rion of the country is such, that applications for an increase of force have been made from thirteen different counties.— (Cheers) Among the papers will be found the complaint of a sergeant of police that be has lost all power of pre venting the commission of outrages. The number of re wards offered upon apprehension of offenders has been 108, Ind of these two only have been claimed and paid.—(Hear, hear.) It is quite clear that this result must be owing to the disinclination of persons to give in formation ; for we cannot suppose—indeed I am quite sure that it is not the case—that the well disposed people of Ireland do not reprobate and wish to repress crime as much as others ; and I only use the facts to show the ex t. eine fears of those attacked and injured, that even where they have sufficient knowledge of the identity of the par ties they dare not come forward with information. I think I have stated enough to prove that the condition of affairs in Ireland at the present moment is one which re quires immediate remedy, and that his Majesty's Ministers would have failed in their du'y if they had not endea voured to put a stop to the-e outrages ; but it was our great object not to require anything exceeding the ordinary powers of the law as long as any measure of greater power and severity could be avoided. When first we caine inno office, we iound the county of Clare in a state of much disorder. A special commission was issued to try offen ders, an t the result was campl oely successful.—(Cheers from Mr. O'Connell and his friends ) We afterward , pursued the same course in Queen's County ; and let me ask those who cheer me, whether the result there was equally successful?—(Cheers from the Ministerial benclies) The outrages in Queen's County have been continued, and I shall have an opportunity of stating NL hat have been the consequences of that special commission. Some of the witnesses who came forward on the part of the pr osecu tion have been obliged to quit the country. True it is that disturbance was quelled for a short time, but it soon broke out again ; and at this moment it exists to as fright ful an extent as before.—(Cheers.) The expedieet which succeeded in Clare failed in Queen's County. The second point I am to establish before I can expect Parliament to confide to Minis ere those extraordinary powers, is, that the ordinary law of the country is insufficient. I hare stated already one respect in which the ordinary law is not sufficient, and I will now advert to others—such, I mean, as the intimidation of jurors as well as of witnesses, which renders it impossible that the ordinary law should he executed, and it has therefore no chance of being effeceuel in !undoing outrage. lam quite aware—and the House will perhaps not be surprised to hear—that I cannot have many cases to bring before the House of in timidation of jurors; but I have some, the part . culare of which I beg to read. (His Lordship, among his papers, here looked for a particular document, but not being able to find it, proceeded.) I believe I can state most of them from my memory, and if I succeed in establishing that a system of intimidation exists, or that it has been carried to a great extent towards those who have served, or were caue.i up"" i t tea Nosy bi iinataine it is no easy task to obtain jurors. The case os whie:i I pat-to-wetly refer is that of era .1.. 1 at tSlarrick shock ; and here I would observe that I have nothing to do with the question whether the parties accused weir guilty or innocent—whether the offence was supposed by some to have been established or diet.roved, is a In otter for :t.y purpose of no consequence. I only adduce the case to show that some of the Jury who were thought to be in favour of finding the prisoner guilty, received threatening letters, and souse have been actually cotepelled to quit that part of the country, mid to reside in Dublin. The house of one was assailed, and shots were fired into it, while a gentleman who was befeved to h we been favour able to the prisoners, hail his corn cut for him by the people. When his sister was engaged in a civil suit, threatening letters were sent to prevent witnesses appear ing on th - opposite side. Therefore, if such have been the case with one Jury (end that it has been so is noto Hems), it will not be very difficult to infer that it is the case with others through the country, although it in .y not be possible to prove any outrage actually committed upon a juror.—(Cheers from Mr. O'Connell and his friends.) The Honourable and Learned Gentleman seems to think that in this instance I am to act the part rather of an ad vocate than of a legislator, and that I ought to make no admissions, called for in fairness and in fact, because they may happen to he in his favour. I can only say, that my object is to state the case as it is, and I beg to assure him, that whenever I come to any part of the case which makes for his side of the question, I shall have no hesitation in stating that also ; so that without injury to his cause, he might have spared some part of his triumph on this occa sion. Although no juror may have received personal injury, the fact, as I have stated it, is not to be denied—that ju rors are in terror of appearing upon the trial of offenders. On a previous night, my Right Hon. Friend mentioned the number of jurors summoned on a trial who did not think it prudent to answer to their names. To this it was replied, that the jurors absent might reside at a great dis tance ; but the statement from Kilkenny upon the point is simply this—that we are not to expect, at the ensuing assizes, that jurors will he found to serve on the pending trials, This statement is made upon as good authority as it is possible to obtain. Further, as to the intimidation of witnesses, I mentioned that several had been compelled to quit Queen's County, in consequence of the evidence given before the Special Commission. First, there was Mrs. Brady, who has been driven from her house because her son prosecuted John Delany for the murder of her husband. James Daly, also, another prosecutor, was ob liged to accept a situation in the police.—(Laughter from Mr. O'Connell)—in a distant county, to secure himself from personal violence, and, perhaps, loss of life.—(Cheers.) Another witness, also, has been placed on the police, for the same reason.—(Hear.) John Ramsey has sought refuge in the county of Antrim, and the family of Mr. Large has been obliged to be protected by two constables, owing to the concern he had in the Special Commission, and a party of armed men was actually in search of Mrs. Large. Mr. Jacob, a gentlemen, 61 years old, has been compelled to leave his Elegise in consequence of having proved the outrage at Marybarough, and the police with d'fficulty saved him from personal violence. A family of the name of M sjor has been driven to seek their breed in Dublin, in order to escape from threatened violence. Lieutenant Sherlock, although he hail the protection of two constables, has qnitted his abode for the sake of per sonal security, he having prosecuted some persons to con viction under the Special Commission. Mrs. Dowling and family have abandoned their dwelling to save themselves from being murdered ; and a Mr. Manley actually turned his nephew out of doors in order to show that he had no concern in giving information against a man for robbing his house of a gun. I have stated these cases, applicable to Queen's County, in order to show the effect of terror upon witnesses; and I think, when the House sees—first, that the Special Commission in Queen's County has failed ; secondly, th a t so me jurors in the Kilkenny prosecutions were threat e n e d, and others rewarded ; anti thirdly, ,het those who or obligedga ve evidenceto putm the ha have been driven from t, their o homes, esunderthe pro etia of the police, it will be aware, [hitt, at least as far as re gards the province of Leineter, the ordinary law is not sufficient.—(Ch e ers.) The next point I have to prove is, that the Bid now on the table is the measure which ought to he adopted, in order to supply the deficiency of the or dinary law, For this purpose it will be necessary for me to enter into some explanation of the main principles of the Bill, to s h o w how day apply to the grievances of which we complain, and that they are necessary for the protection of the peaceable inhabitants of Ireland. The strongest, and, I admit without reserve, the most objec tionable part of time Bill is that which, in certain cases, abolishes the trial by jury.— (Hear.) The great object of this part of the measure is to do away with the effect of the terror now found to operate so strongly upon the minds of jurymen ; and here I may mention that various suggestions have been made by persons, who allow that, in the present state of affairs in Ireland, it is necessary to employ coercive measures; these suggestions have bi•en offered with the view of dispensing with the military tear tunals proposed to be established by the Bill ; and I ad mit that, compared with the trial by jury, this mode 0 f administering justice must be deprecated by all men. But this 1 must say, that every proposal as a substitute for military tribunals seems to me infini'ely n ore objectionable. It has been mentioned, among other things, that a Judge of Assize might be sent down to try offenders without the' aid of a jury ; but, in I my opinion, this mode of habituating the minds of , the people to a new species of trial (fur new it would be, and without a single precedent in its favour) by a Judge without the intervention of a Jury. would he more dangerous in itself, and more unconstitu tional and detrimental, than the plan we propose. Another suggestion has been, that barristers, appointed by the Crown, should try criminals without the inter vention of a Jury. This scheme, in my mind, would be far more objectionable than the employment of a Judge of Assize ; because the selection would be made by Go vernment, and it must be from barristers who were in expectation of reward and promotion, in consequence of pleasing the Government; whereas a Judge who had risen to the head of his profession might be supposed, per haps, above tempta'ion. Such a precedent would he peri lous to the Constitution, and faulty in principle, and there fore I object to it. The fact undoubtedly is, that if in measures of this kind we attempt to take a middle course, and to mitigate the excess of power beysnd the ordinary law to such a degree as to make men regard it with less dislike than as Englishmen we ought to feel, we do more mischief than is occasioned by Bills of greater force and e ff e ct, inasmuch as we may induce those in power to bring forward their milder ph is when the occasion is not so urgent as to demand them.—(Cheers.) Every body will allow, and no one more readily than myself, that no• thing but the most pressing necessity can warrant the course we recommend.—(Hear.) Therefore I do not con sider the dislike it will probably meet with among the people in some respects a disadvantage ; and for this, among other reasons, I prefer the enactment contained in the Bill upon the table. It has been called by sonic the introduction of m irtial law into Ireland, but it is in truth no such thing; it is riot the establishment of martial law, but an alteration of the existing institutions, by requir ing military tribunals to ashninister the civil law. The next point for which it is necessary to provide is, the protection of witnesses; and it lia• been asked what pro tection do you afford to witnesses in the Bill? Every body acquainted with Ireland knows that the principal danger to which witnesses would be exposed, would occur during the night; and in adopting to a certain extent the provi stuns of the Insurrection Act, we obtain the power to prevent the outrage on the persons of witnesses that would • happen after dark. A main objection made to this con , cession is, that it gives the right of searching houses, and here I am quite ready to admit t at the authority should be gum did and limited in every way Hon. Gentlemen can suggest for the defence of the subject. But they must nut compare the state of Ireland with the state of this couutry—the existence of a legal authority with the exist ence of the Whitefeet—a state of peace and order with a state of tumultuous ass , triblies and murderous attacks. The other part of the B 11, which relates particularly to the Whit feet outrages, goes to the prevention of signals, for the sake of either collecting a lawless force, or of giving notice of the movements of the police. The principle has been adopted front a law of this country, for the better prevention of smuggling, compelling a party in cer tain cases to prove the negative, that he did not make the signal ; but it is not, perhaps, necessary for me to go into toese details. I have, very indistinctly, lam afraid, stated the grounds on which this measure rests, as regards White feet outrages. I admitted that it was necessary fur me to prove that the state of Ireland was such as to require this extraordinary remedy, inasmuch as the ordinary law was not sufficient for the purpose, and that the provisions of the Bill are such as will enable us to remedy the exist ing evils. Having now gone through that duty, I hope and trust the House will agree with me that I have made out a case, at least as far as the Whitefeet are concerned. 'I here is another part of the measure, and the only part of it, wirch extends to the whole of Ireland ; for the House will not fail to observe that the portion of the Bill ti which I have chiefly referred is only to apply to disturbed districts, or to oisiricts which may hereafter be disturbed. I admit—nay, I avow, tat so far it is a most despotic and arbitrary measure ; and there is another part of it which is a renewal of the Proclatnation Act. It has been said that there is no connection between the political aititation ^r saasaa —a these oistuibanees. Indeed, some _ ---- assert that ene political agitation in Ireland is a means of preventing the committal of outrages. I confess it appears to me extraordinary, for persons who have made most violent ant inflammatory addresses, exaggerating to the utmost all the grievances of Ireland, because they end with a cobweb pretence of wish ing for tranquillity, and recommending the people not to lie guilty of a breach of the law—to contend that their speeches, in fact, allay the disturbances they seem intended to generate.—(Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) among others, maintained that political aeitatiou would put down disturbance, and he seemet almost to insinuate that it was in his power to put it down. Ido not—l cannot believe it : I should be extremely sorry to believe it of any man, and least of all of him, that having the power to put down such outrages, he does not exert it. That he has as ouch power as any man ever possessed by his eloquence to excite the passions and rouse the feelings of the people, no man will deity ; that he can raise the fl ame of discontent into open disturbance, is be yond dispute; but I will not do him the injustice—for gross injustice it would be—to suppose that if he had the means of allaying the storm he would fail to employ them. Without looking at any particular or individual cases, any man who reasoned upon the subject must feel that the violence of language at political meetings must produce excitement, and that excitement must tend to the continu ance of outrage.—(Cheers.) In one case, a friend of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman—a self styled pacificator— went a short distance from Dublin, and made a speech in the usual strain, complaining of grievances, exciting the populace, and ending, according to custom, with the usual hope that no breach of the law would be the consequence. During the ensuing week five outrages were committed. It might he the result of accident, but the fact at least shows that the conclusion of the orator's harangue had not the effect he pretended to desire. Ido not say that all the outrages have been the result of political oceitement —by no means—but looking at the connection which does exist between political agitation and outrage, there can be no doubt that the latter is promoted and increased by the former. Let us look at the institution of what are called " Volunteers" in Ireland, who are to vest el le civil government of that country in the hands of an irreseonsiiile' body, taking it trom those recognised servants of the Crown and people who are responsible. Every man, on payment of a shilling, may be enrolled in this corps of Volunteers ; and let me ask, is it possible that the Executive of Ireland should consent that the preservation of the peace of that part of the em pire should depend upon them?—(Cheers.) I have here, also, the speech of another pacificator—Mr. Steele.— (Mr. O'Connell , aid, across the table, that Mr. Steele was under prosecution.)—Very well ; it is of no consequence, and 1 will not use it; but the Volunteers are liable to other objections. It must surely strike every man, that it is highly improper that the whole civil authority of the country should be placed in the hands of such a body, which may be converted into a must dangerous political engine, even to influence the votes of Members of this House.—(Cheers.) Already has its power been exerted, and certain Members have been denounced to their consti tuents; and I must say, that there never was an institu tion which more deserved attention, and more required remedy. I have thus gone over the grounds on which I hold it necessary to add his powers to others, with the ob ject of putting down Whitefeet, agitation, and disturbance; and, as to the arguments that may be used against the Bill, I am aware that they will be used with ad vantage by Honourable Gentlemen who intend to resist its progress. It is impossi le for any man to em ploy an argument more likely to gain favour with the mul ti!ude than that which is derived from a comparison of the state of liberty of this country with the supposed state of bondage in Ireland. We shall, doubtless, have divers declamations in praise of liberty, which no man wishes to t l o i liberty themselves are th the or protection to t h their ir gainsay ; but the question is—is it from a state of liberty that Ireland is to be rescued ? 14 she not to be rescued so ciety, tti t fo t r a t a tperri neighbours, be t escued from a state of anarchy, where life has no from a state of great and se a v n e d re i t s yr n a o n t ny d ? etri l n s ie s n h t e ai n t o o t safety, and property no security ?—(Cheers.) Lib erty is but to be subjected to the authority of benefit s ethoerf of life and property—the pilseal isbeesr liberty himself,a a tit s bn pr otection efits o , f a every t i man sno i t n doing not a name, and d ot justice tice n his o,ole to m in ea t s h u i t s e H w ou h s ic e h , it has become Inv duty self constituted r e gulators. Another objection that t o h r a g t a h n a t s )f been e ul(- t o rig i ne n gd t 'e rt a i G d g u a C ivn :, srtn is mt,iele t u h t at the sole object of this measure is to enforce the collection of tithes. I can, with perfect sin cerity, assure the House, that that is not the object of this Bill; and if the Lord Lieutenant, in the exercise of the discretion which this Bill confides to him, should apply it exclusively for the purpose of entorcing the collection of tithes, then, 1 must say, it would be a most unwise and improper exercise of that discretion. If the Lord Lieu- k. tip tenant should proclaim a district merey because.the sired' not be collected there, then I have no difficaoi.,, shying that such an exercise of di-cretion w ould be contrary to the spirit and intention of this s e ne the wishes of his Majesty's Govei nment. I iik . l no w touched upon all the topics connected with this jae,t to which it is at all necessity for me to call the tiro of the House ; but I, at the same tit prebend that as it is so very un usual with m e to anli, h the House at such length, I may not ave done tio) like justce to a sutijict of such moment, and etrih t i ', e , so mauv e and such various details. I felt, however, thus to occupy the time of the House, for, though a mon fame, and the intelligence supplie d b y tee made known some of the facts to which it has re th . e e my ditty to advert, yet I will venture to s'iY , scarcely any one in this country who can have Ma d , least approximation to a just idea of the real stat.eott land, or of the amount of outrage cotninited again' son and property in several parts of that country for _ time past. I have now to move that this Bill be onw a first time.— ( Hear.) Mr. TENNYSON was opposed to the Bill beiel then, and intended to submit to the Hou se an amen' to the motion of the Noble Lord, with the vie? °l taining time for further inquiry, in order to aeclie re complete information than was yet before the House.subject was one of the very highest importaocef should not be dealt with upon imperfect information had been alleged by the Noble Lord, and by the ere t of the measure elsewhere, that a proceeding of th at character had been rendered necessary by the attack' upon Jurors ; but it was said that, so far bac k mouth of May last, Jurors had been threatened. . l e e not asserted that they were any more than threate d present ; but they were threatened, it w as allege that firmed the ground for abolishing the Trial bY Those threats, bow ever, were uttered so far baclt month of May last. Parliament was then Ministers might have come down to that We' demanded increased powers; but had they d °r ' Neither then nor at present should he have e to strengthening the hands of the Executive if ee die r casion demanded increased powers. But he altes, denied that any such increased powers were reel_ Ia his judgment, they ought not to be resort ; until the ordinary powers of the Constitution bas urged to the extreme limit, and turned to a ccoun t most effective manner. He would repeat, that t il ' nary powers of the law ought to be put in force b, course was had to such an extravagant and fearful merit as that then before the House. In the re ; the Committee on the subject of the state of the County, measures were recommended, the object' was to increase the power of the Executive and s tre the hands of the local magistracy. He did n ot i° ment hesitate to say, that if similar measures t" recommended by the Committee en the Quee n ' r e %vete applied to Ireland generally, they w ould Ye" ; produce tee effect of les.oring that country to !i tranquillity. The grave and momentous veinal the House had to determine was, whethe r or 110 sures of his Majesty's Government would bring • results which were anticipated, or whether they e l ' produce a directly contrary effect. Were not the c ; I martial to decide upon some sort of evidence•-"' in e get not witnesses coming before them in as great ea' popular hostility as in coming before any other Would they net in the one case, as in the o ther, nable to the fury of the enraged populace ? its nothing would be easier than to devise a tneas el without violating the Constitutien, might have ti of suppressing disturbance. Ireland had often turbid in times past, and the. Insurrection Act on several occ .stns found adequate to the tranquillizing the country.—(Hear, bear.) be favourable to a measure which wne ll ' e Migistrates to call at the houses of s usPe-te suns, who, if not found at home, should b e , to account for their absence ; and if that abeeo ce , satisfactorily accounted for, that they should be ta three months' imprisonment for the first off' to severer penalties f any subsequent delimi t further objected to the present measure, on that it gave those courtsmartial a power ever which no Court should possess—it s ubjected kind of pa eye forte et there. It they were fool in or near any place where an outrage was they might be called upon to give eviden , e , refused, they might be imprisoned for three deeply regretted that a rn.aaure of that nature been brought forward by au Administratio n ether respects, was proceeding in a course jV tee, sae, smd who. in them—an Administration which happf: inenced a course of wise and remedial mean. —measures which, he was sure, if they g ot bet, would produce ti anscendent ffect.i. in trans ui land. On these grounds, then, lie trusted tha t t would pause before it sanctioned a proceedine go a great way to neutralize all that a W lf ' e inane spirit had previously acconipiishedr was anything but in accordance with tie of the measure them before the Hti ae. treated them to grant even a little h e purpose of en iblitig the House to be real' with the state of the country. Of this the 'night assure themselves—that the people regard that fatal step as a complete declaratl and they would thus lose the advantage that illy arise 'root the operation et those rem dial which lie haul alluded upon the generous f e ardent and p issienate people. He begged it stood, that he was willing to strengthen Government to a certain extent; and if the that the Volunteer Association was really should have no objection to epee to such a o at suppression of that body, us he had suppo rt introduced by the Right Hon. Member fe r . for putting down the Catholic Associatiee' powers he should be willing to concede Government, if they only made out a case mittre, or at the bar of the House. 1 4 e, moving that the Bill be read a first tin„,- fortnight. Mr. E. L. BULWER said he should sweat the Noble Lord, and take the least di s passion a most constitutional, view of the argument' e leave it to others to oppose these laws, betistle%o tyrannical and oppressive. He opposed tl! ground to which the Noble Lord invited hire' would be in, fficacious—because they w ould ri ° objects for which they are demanded. 11: must not suppose, because he and other Eng: opposed these laws, that they denied the cr ud isted in Ireland—or that they were unwilliogi with Government in devising eotne ree e l ' offences. What they complained of w aste powers will not obtain the remedy ; and, even if they did, the remedy would be disease. He contended that the remedy 'l' the disease—a violation of law was a t el suspension of law was a still greater one. to read us catalogues of crime—that was —prove to us how these laws will be app he —it was useless to tell us that in the p resent was evil and danger—prove to us that there evil and less danger in the law you dentat!' laws will not obtain their object.---i° t ' what are the crimes for which the Noble them ?—not for ordinary offences—tao• f or murder. It was instances of murder that the had adduced. Would it be believed that on very crime these laws did not embrac e. martial sits upon capital offences, but c an for life. Murder is not a transportab le du not receive, then, their sentence f ront establish. You deal only with subordinate attack the niisuletneanor, and you le ag , e , , , Again, what is the great grievance cotne: Noble Lord in the administration of juste witness dare not give evidence in a court, e' er son shrinks from arraigning the man father. A terrible proof of the disorder td lation of long and unvatied coercion leis br°, fortunate country. He joined in latoriicle: i join in d e vi s ing cures for it ; but there s "' contemplated in your new powers. T he exposed to exactly the same dange r in .theto in a court of law. You may compel hi by the threat of imprisonment ; but whett his evidence, how will you protect hues ? pissed to the same danger—danger did ti s'": much greater danger. For the new odious than the old ; and in proporti.on , the tribunal, will be the vengeance again 9 61,01 t but say his Majesty's Ministers, . I, re. country, and thereby disarm intimidatio ta t i witness will become sale. Before hi the country, I apprehend that sum ea ! witnesses will be shot at, i _a order,orty courage to rest. But pacify the . tiO by domiciliary visits, by courtstnartial et le rare pacification. The Right Hun. Ge _ been to Ireland in vain. He has learnt , ence of practical Bulls—he would Facifyiain:l (letting its people! But what is this trib o take away the court of law beeau•e • • s be a fair con' under existing circuitistaPLe tiff. You appoint, in its stead, a courtaia! no possibility , can be a fair court for the tribut. to,; Cittltti i i 4 411 sa ; the tithes of b. 3 , 1 t, lifflculty it' i° 1° Ibe diredf- ,,:. tia till, and t° ,!et,:e7ln.ia bin!: 1 loge ~,,t,t uld h ob. ti l Rov e th this s e e,, 11 II tte• saes . 'n t ri, ',urar ,reAtIV 3P' Rh and nf to address it,,it”trie, le anything P,l,;,,thie embracing, 1 , ~'ln e c t h4 ever, bound ;al ttatties, ough Coo' ilf'Nee i ne, ,,,, pa perst it 'ild atit ` n sn it has been 1),,.. , in e is keh litical thee II . 4,141 . re made the e i l'iatip• 'ttlii] f Ire. till art Ite, h state o , it tr 0 ai.-;airot pe r , 41. , .Y ae . o Per try for tonid° 101rittlitc,orade.4 be tovl recd ban 01: e a Ili t i t 4 oit 0 11 being re I .and e amencline3 view o f ob' !. ti,te, oi OallteEttli:Ceee.:jl;bre4e, ba i le d k'tttl:e.o4ollll eatleit::,,4, rrn4tion. 0 ti.iti., y tl he pt" tri'lefat it, k'.e l ~,° 1 that rittte ti,l bill t l attack, frj,iie t i , . 1 '414 'ltte, back 3' eras ah,,41,,,t1a11y ned. It t i , t 't , t. 7 ,, t o ged kd `p e}e N t rt r ibaa h rl lita:cht;:::::,:!iji laiiitti i : ; 1 0 1. „ I: 4 et v ial sitting, °;ci i't!,,tlt"od, e o i l a t 1100 e ' O l Itirrlibtoki t, , ey done led tht) to ati have ohj'co4. ioit,'try !ljt he altoget A . the y ' / f ere requr,„ ~ tilt; 4 p tceicornife'c:tabtdl :tee.: iiii:p4ltito:p'l'4l;f::::; ecoutit Oordi, bpi,, l',,pran that th e re, , to ito Au bree IP Pre,riAta„'t d i °l . l fearful 'SP' of the li lt f rI L the rePri 4 tilk k l4 '.ar , )f the aieeb°,l, t Ne,,entaion abject of * . tbe oPt o ,i, l thi e t„p' , „d sere og Iva , Th e 1 , f 1 a not for 8 0 4 klar,,ttht law area tor oil f, If il,l . R of wren's " ° , y ,t 114 ,„ , t, , av e ;uld vel ' o f L kw "A r,:Y d o ptste.e it, ?.5V - to I ...,b, thtrittti t, luesuon roo, Lit til o r no the of h'ul Ito Yfr Are bring 3 14 /10 11,m titti ty Oig nettle c..4:11t. th() o t t e r e e°o,6lto,ttih 0. lce---30d ogee fC041,k4 r f ;reat ti"otti It t,, ' .Peet r other e ° or *L I tli he, tiler, be ! e ios tha t ' 4 4 i n tl 'st In bil 01)11,i, t oti ,nl 16 v dd measure ss ' e ff. 4 11 01 ° i t t te l ist have the ,e.ig,,, 4eltra often in Act 115,4 iila,;(taikt.lllol the Po r t' b d i t s t)::! (4' 1 % 7.) Ile 'O, 'tiol:‘'i ~ !r e would 3r, ( t 6, , 4 ,,b 4 1 pi su,peeteo oy 1,4,,,,,, , old be r`g Pic O tt; that iLbu'ldeibce Ilsoe':;6 1111°it!l't,°t4o1:;:tttlia pi first 9° be Me an toetit 1 litqUeliei.ei'l4ltt ~ttt': ti• • on tb e (I,eit°L th.4411,,ia .1! over "' I- ri 1 th-11; a iected th e ' .. , ,i b e 01 '' Il l ." o ere fount, Y i iL k ! rtil oorni,il, , `st, k t, was ail tlvtlttlt4 fol e n , e, ant.. es tmth. q rev inonl 12,1. Itit4tv t 1 ature sb(lhAN otia:,,ti ;ration *'. t ie el k?, , , ti°:,., 01 roe c 9 !8 ,'''k 4. 4 4 Member!' ',lt o:4l4,ratttl,e 1 i p p Or far', ferSijel t , t , to r ' ~sure re% f a it t r ir tkl?..„ , A ) , of but . 6 10 10f 0 ,11 1 / 4 . l tet \llea tranq u ' t he PN ' l lty. l l t , ed that . h is' ,t' r tor 1 a t , limt w hic pa'. 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IRISH COERCION BILL.—CALL OF THE HOUSE. The excitement in the lobbies of the House of Commons was, from an early hour, of an extraordinary character. Every passage was literally choked sip with anxious spec tators. That more immediately connected with the strangers' gayety had been far hours occupied by a far greater number of indiv'dvale than it could by any possi bility contain. When the gallery was opened the rush Was tremendous. On e ntering the House we found Mr. ROCHE on his lege. charging the Ministers with a deep laid c onspiracy to gag public opinion, and, by establishing martial law in Ireland to stop the repeal of the Union.—(Hear, bear, from the Opposition.) The two great aristocratic factions had joined in that House ; this was evident from their conduct regarding the Speakership and on the question whether military and naval sinecures were to be given up.—(Cries of " Question," and great uproar.) Ile stood there upon his right, and he would Sot be past down. He demanded that evidence should be teleete at the bar of that House to justify one of the greatest inroads on the Constitution that history could furnish.—(Cheers, and cries of " Question.") He would rather have another party in power—rather have a gene rous enemy than a time-serving Ministry—than those who betrayed their friends for the benefit of their enemies.— (Great uproar—amidst which the Honourable Member moved " for copies of all papers addressed to the Right Honourable the Secretary for Ireland, relative to distur bances in that country from the 25th of February, 1830, to the 25th of February, 1833.") Mr. T. ATTWOOD seconded the motion. Mr. STANLEY said he felt assured, as many Hon. Members would, that if the Hon. Gentleman who had just proposed his motion had studiously considered the means of indefinitely postponing the question about to be conei alered, he could not have hit upon a better or more certain plan.—(Hear, hear.) Was that Hon. Member in ear nest when he propounded his motion—could he be serious in asking for these papers? He was sure he knew not what they were—embracing, as they did, the whole offi cial documents for the last three years connected with the disturbances in Ireland. He was sure that when Hon. Members heard the statement of his Noble Friend, con taining, as it would do, hut a small portion of a small se lection of a small abstract—(Laughter and cheers)—of a small part of these three years—when they heard this detail, he repeated, he felt sure the motion for papers spreading over a space of three years would carry with it its own reputation.—(Cheers.) If the papers even for the list six months were produced, he would venture to say, that had they the power, it would not be consonant with the inclinations of any three men in that House to wade through them.—(Hear, hear.) Undoubtedly his Majesty's Ministers had proposed a measure of a very ar bitrary and coercive character—(Cheers from the Oppo eition)—to be justified only by the extraordinary circa ne stances in which they found a portion of the kingdom placed ; but they incurred the responsibility without anxiety, because they were satisfied they would he sup ported by that House, by the people of England, and, in the true sense of the word, by the people of Ireland also. —(Loud cheers, laughter, and cries of ' No, no.") It would be for the House to call for further information, if, when the Government had made their statements they did not think that statement sufficient to bear out the case on which they were willing to rest their justification of this Bill. If there were no ether objection to the nsotion, it was impossible it could he acceded to on the ground of a reference to individuals—to untried offences—to unappre hended offenders.—(Cheers.) ' Ministers were anxious for their trial—(Hear, hear)—rhey were rejoiced the time had arrived when they could be judged on a measure which they had postponed late and adopted reluctantly— (Cheers from both sides of the House)—and which, if they would not vindicate, they should for ever lose their disracters as ..--n—(Continued cheers)—their characters rsn - " e i w i " l . 2 t t-: —(Here the cheering viers deafening, and was e-ree. side to side in the most boisterous and determined marine', , or with no inconsiderable degree of hearty liCroTiei7, tw ! c r e , hailed those cheers—he hailed them,• he repeated—(`ie- Dewed cheering)—he accepted the challenge.—(Mr. Stan ley was here compelled to desist for several moments, the shouting was so vehement. At length he resumed with increased energy of matsner.) He repeated again that they accepted the challenge ; they bad staked everything dear to them as men and as Ministers ; they had staked their situation in the country—nay, more, they had staked the destinies of the country itself on a measure, the necessity of which they were ready to make out that night, and to vindicate by documents of the most clear and undeniable character.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. T. ATTWOOD said, the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had led them to imagine that there were some documents in the hands of Ministers to justify the extraordinary measure they were ab ut to bring for ward respecting Leland. Now, he was always of opinion that inquiry ought to precede any measures of a strong and unusual character.—(Cheere.) He hoped they would be allowed a little delay in the matter—that Ministers won d be induced to accede to a short postponement of the measure—and that they would not depart from the wholesome precedent observed on all former occasions by that House, when the liberties of the people were to lie infringed, of appointing a Select Committee to inquire into the necessity of stela a proceeding.—(Hear, hear.) He held in his hand proof upon proof, that on all former occasions, when extraordinary measures were contemplated, a Select Committee had been appointed to consider delibe rately, calmly, and fairly, of their expediency. At the pre sent time, Ministers did not evince any discretion or pru dence of this kind. He held in his hand an extract from the speech of a great and learned individual—the Right Hon. Gentleman who filled the Woolsack in the other House.--(Roars of laughter.) He trusted they would have the kindness to recollect that he was sitting on the Irish side of the House—(Cheers and laughter)—an extract, he repeated, from the speech delivered by Lord Brougham in March, 1817, on the subject of the suspension of the Habeas Corpus, in which that Noble Lord said, " A more flagitious and indecent proceeding never took place with in those walls than the attempt to hurry such a measure as the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act through that House." This was uttered at a period of great danger, when it was said the Tower was threatened, and when insurrection was hourly expected in the centre of England. If inquiry was necessary then, when such great and im• minent danger threatened the country, how much more so was it celled for now, when he would defy any man to show any clear and convincing grounds on which to found this terrible enactment?—(Cheers.) He had watched for the last two years with a c +refill eye all that had taken place in Ireland, and he would say, confidently, that there was not more disturbance now than there was at that time, nor so much as there was eighteen months ago. What then did such attempts as this mean?—(Cheers.) Here they were met for the first time as a Reformed Par liament, to restore the rights and liberties of the people— here they were met to consider the great, the dread ful, the insufferable distress under which the nation had been so long and so undeservedly labouring, and not a word was said about that distress—( Hear, hear)—but the first proposition was to strangle liberty in the very sanctuary where it bad taken refuge.—(l.oud cheers.) So monstrous did he consider this proposition, that he could not in his conscience vote for it, without a previous full, rational, and deliberate inquiry.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member had moved for an inquiry—for some evi dence on which to proceed, and it ought to he granted. There were, no doubt, disturbances in Ireland—there al ways had been for the last three hundred years—(Cheers) —but the way to cure them wes not by random censure or wanton abuse.—(Hear.) Unless there was misery, there was never guilt—(Cheers)—and all the coercive measures they could devise would fail, while want prevailed. What did the Crown Solicitor for Munster recommend as a re medy for crime ? " Give the people employment," said he, " and you will at once alienate them from crime—they will have no inclination for it." Was it not monstrous, then, when the people wanted common sustenance —when they asked for bread—when that alone would content them —that they should he answered by bayonets, by sabres, by halters, gaols, and a suspension of the Constitution? The Crown Solicitor, in another part of his evidence, said that the laws were sufficient fur the suppression of'disturb ance,if they were hut promptly put in force—(Hear). — and that the people were attached to them, and did not show hostility to them or to jurors.—(Hear.) If, then, the people of Ireland—the ill-used, goaded, exasperated people of Ireland—still esteemed the law, and respected t h e persons of jurors, where was the rhyme or reason 'of giving them a serpent instead of bread, and gaols in lieu of that which they had a right to demand and to have? He hoped the plain and simple proposition which had been brought forward with so much propriety and good sense, would carry weight with that House, and that no proceed ings would be adopted which were not founded on solid and reasonable grounds. if the late House. of Commons had proceeded in this course—if Castlereagh—the lamented Castlereagh—had been sitting on the Bench opposite, be should not have been much surprised ; hut that a Re formed Parliament, sent there specially to restore, confirm, and extend the laws and liberties •of the people, should thus proceed--that their first act should he destructive or the inherene,eights of a portion of the nation, was to him matter equally of astonishment and of regret. They were then,, be it recollected, owing a great debt of gra- li, tr n , .1)1 ' govern n ee , I 'Llttti, ) , ' h .4 1 "eon, , B 41 e4a, , 3 fro, °etq 4s Iv o ,•;.. tild Vi t l* ly ii li t tl, t hiy F... P t 41,