The Sun. — London, England, 1833-06-25 00:00:00

• • / ,9 •5 4 4 . ' •. • kli f st'-'47% -,' WI ) fil) • ' Ai •-• I, )1- -I- C OI I ( reti. eferring to this subject, a Noble Baron had made a wild cilculation es to the expense which the mea sure would occasion to ili- country, which he estimated at the enormous sum of 300,0001. That was, howev.r, f,r beyond the actual amount, for if the whole number exceed t,eter; 6 b o u , O t O if O/ t . h e a of judges suggested by the commissioners were to he ap pointed, it would not exceed 50,000 L ; ard if 25 finch judges were to be named. the whole expense would not ne cessity of having p >. a 'f y a m rt ent li b e v ah fl u el d , w e greao v n e ' n :l l court, and he thought that if a fu:4 were provided for the purpose from any other source, it . 4 lze so much the r p r . e t t . the shoui any part ,11 this paid out of t he fees in tbt he resorted to, it would not alter his opinion . as to impolicy of that mode of payment. Lord WYNFORD concurred with h' is Noble and Learned Friend that the patronage which would accrue ender the Rill should be vested in the responsible advisers of the Crown. i LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JUNE 25, 1833. ( PRICE 7D.) o. 12,727.) COURT OF ALDERMEN. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. A Court of Aldermen wai held yesterday, at which Sir J Shaw was sworn into the office of Chamberlain ; and Messrs. Lewis and Wilson into the office of Bridge masters, for the ensuing year. The Sheriffs delivered in their reports of the state of the several gaols. N. Kuowlys, Esq., Recorder, resigned his office into the bands of the Court, who unanimously agreed to a resolution thereon, which was ordered to be advertised. Precepts for Michaelmas Day were directed to he issued, and various questions were referred to a Committee for consideration. Lord LYNDHURST admitted that if the experiment were made only in two counties it would be unsatisfactory and inconclusive. What be objeetesl to was, that the Crown should have the power to name the number of the judges and the extent of the districts in which they were to preside. This, he believed, was altogether unprece dented in legislating on matters of judicature ; what he was anxious to learn from Ministers wis the amount of salary which they would propose for the learned judges to t)e appointed under the Bill? LAURIE, MAYOR. C‘l ESPECIAL COURT OF LORD MAYOR and ALDERMEN, holden in the Inner 06ce. , I t lher of the Guildhall of the City of London, on the ;be , v ,„"f the Nativity of John the Baptist, that is to say ;`uAY, the 24th day of June, 1833, and in the third i d e ol ls7 'f the reign of William the Fourth, of the United o f V e rn of Great Britain and Ireland, King, &c. 00 0 ; te Pb ed unanimously, It /I' ft at the Court receives with unfeigned regret the corn valet cation from the Learned Recorder that, from his ad ,444 a ge, ill health, and debility consequent upon a late 4111 severe fit of illness he has felt himself bound, after g served this City ' for more than forty-seven years, re ther o j a ' l: 446 ofthirty of which he has tilled the several judicial lipP r i be Clurinion S. , rgeant and Recorder, now to resit!.ll 0000 .t.c.:,,euertof Recorder into the hands of this Court ; and hey i 4 do most sincerely hope and trust that the re rst, rte o f his life may be spent in easy and comfortable "T'ent WOODTHORPE. jeh ° 1.11 .5 T INDIA HOUSE. JITNE 11, 1833. 'Jo ri s COURT of DIRECTORS of the rt - 1° 4.1 ! , UNITED COMPANY of MERCHANTS of to i "ND, TRADING to the EAST INDIES, do '6' That giv e N o ti ce , 1, , 10 k at the Court having about 500 Tons of COALS for t ; loilnrelent to BOMBAY from LLANELLY, in South ip e l'are desirous of receiving Proposals on WEDNESDAY for, ir I, e ' L '''to instant, from the e Owners of Ships of about 500 j o if qgqindred) Tons register, specifying the rate per Ton be ' 4l ') at , which they may he willing to convey the Iniquity to that Presidency. h4e Ship will be rt quired to be at Llanelly , rea d y to 6, th e C oals, b y the 14t h o f J u l y next , an d will he bi. 4 1 . in t h e or d er o f turn , in accordance with the 1 , 1 " g regulation of all Collieries. er e's and Conditions under which the Ship will be , H of far this service may be had on application at the of the Clerk to the Committee of Shipping at this ; of Mr. Robert Benson, at Liverpool; of Mr. 4.1 " Anderson, at Bristol ; and of Mr. James Dale, ; S liller.street, Glasgow. rn Posa's, with the words " Tender of a Ship for e° , 4 etyance of Coals to Boin' , ay" on the cover, to be sealed up and left with the Secret try before twelve at noon on the .iaid 26th instant. PETER AUBER, Secretary. PRIVATE PUPIL. knARRIED CLERGYMAN, for some sting 1, ` Six Pupils Tutor to a Nobleman, and subsequently re- Pupils into his House, a moderate distance i t ' Lo n d on , wou ld b e glad to fill a Vacancy with a t leinan's Son, whose Health or Education may require , i . :than c om m o n attention. tters addres•ed for the Rev. H. S., Mr. Rodwell's, ",lieller 46 New Bond-street, London, will be duly wed to him in the country. k MIDDLE AND WORKING CLASSES. 4 day was published, in one thick volume, royal ISmo. price Ss., ISTORY OF THE MIDDLE AND iiti n WORKING CLASSES, with a popular Expo tl;tl OF the Economical anti Political Principles which ( 0 1 i tfluenced the Past and Present Condition of the etlltural, Commercial, and Manufactui ing Classes; k et her with an Appendix of Prices, Rates of Wages, I t t'Llion, Poor Rates, Mortality, Marriages, Crimes , ize r ' l, , Education, Occupations, and other Statistical :I 'nation, illustrative of the Former ar,d Present State t , eiety, anti the Industrious Orders. I P, l;v 4 don : Effingham Wilson, SS, Royal Exchange; W. \2l , emati, Dublin; and Waugh and Jones, Edinburgh. *NEW BURLINGTON-STREET. I. BENTLEY has this day published the following WORKS, which may be obtained all respectable Booksellers in the United Kingdom : 'IO D "ACE WALPOLE'S LETTERS to SIR HORACE MANN. r' fir s t pu bli s b c d . Edi te d by Lord DOVER. 3 vols. Bvo,, with fine Portrait of Horace Walpole. THE REPEALERS. )3 y the Countess of BLESSINGTON. 3 vols. I ‘ I EMOIRS AND CORRESPONDENCE OF MRS. INCHBALD. In 2 vols. Svo., with fine Portrait. TIIE PARSON'S DAUGHTER. 11 7 th e Author of " Sayings and Doings." 3 vols. V. GODOLPHIN. 3 vol , . post Bvo. 4, - ;------ - AINET MAKERS' SOCIETY, 71, LEADEN HALL-STREET. h a ; T HU RNELL respectfully solicits the Nobility an d Gentry to inspect the largest and ~ -sele cted Stock of Cabinet and Upholstery Goods in Z" ,l , at the CABINET-MAKERS' SOCIETY, 71, i l len hall-street, City, which Society is enrolled agree kti) to Ac tof Parliament, and founded for the support i i encouragement of industrious Mechanics, who all corn tt4t: to produce only the very best Articles, provide for its letnbers in sickness, old age, and burial, and for survivors i death. By order of the Trustees, THOS. HASLER, Secretary, l o ' 71, Leadenhall-street, City. ,; size mahogany four- Servants'i chest of tvt bedstead £3 15 01 d raw ers £2 '2 0 Ili t tent bedstead 1 60 , Mahogany Pembroke ,° '• with furniture 315 0 table t 4t ered straw mattress Mahogany dining table 3 3 0 4 fit p" t, th m at tress to fit il t i li, st er bead, free from Cellaret sideboard 6lO 0 3 10 0, Pedestal ditto lO 10 0 i o t L e e„ feet six featherbed 2 12 o,Set of tour feet mahogany 'ii t i;',,eetsix hair mattress 2 10 01 dining tables, 11 feet teet six best ditto, 1 6 long l4 10 0 t 't ti c k , r . 33 0 Small ditto, patent ...... BlO 0 k „, eet six flock bed Music stool, in morocco 1 5 0 lk V bolster rt r t : o ty 1 8 0 l i, A oarnled chairs in oil, 41'1 coloi t , Ir t t Japanned dressing Ditto drawing-room, each 0 18 0 i~t tle 0 16 OlDrawing room couch.... 5 5 0 , 'wash-hand ditto 0 16 o,Best horse-hair cushion 0 5 6 ilkt hs t tion ditto 0 8 0 Common ditto 6 4 6 )1 4 ,'' Iress.ng table hgV:he I feet ohe ersst mans- , card, and sofa 19 0 0 , l e e feet six ditt0....... 316 0 Elegant drawing-room o t Nany box glass, two 0 curtains 66 0 ll oiatvers l5 0 Rosewood caddies, of fancy wood, from 18s. to ItilieZaelly night conve 1 4 0 Imitation ditto, Canter itA L k ' will three steps Ibidet and pan ...... 1 60, Maoan ditto lqo ditt o rim sofa bedstead, 1 fomer i t .attress to tit, with top 3 801 Ditto ditto h.' 4 cti bedstead, ja- Lady'si work table, ma -4.17,4h,..4ed 0 1 hoc , any 1 • ii,, - -uo tent bedstead.... 1 12 0 Ditto, silk and fringed 3 3 0 of mahogany four- Large winged wardrobes tthit an d furniture, Japanned book shelves 0 6 0 tl,eri fringe ch draperies and Rosewood ditto toto 10 6 14 14 01 Los tables...(tmwards)... 6 0 0 All I atherbeds warranted free from dust and smelL *. • Old Furniture taken in exchange. THE WEST INDIA MEETING. 1 , Yesterday a meeting was held at the Thatched House o t , i "n, St. James's street, consisting of the ptincipal pro 1 41 ta, mortgagees, and merchants, connected with the 4 nd of Jamaica, and of several influential persons con_ acted with the other West India Colonies. About seventy t ' 4l ernen were present leCOUllt ST. VINCENT was called to the chair, and was l'l'Aported by the Earl oc HA ARWOOD, and several Mem '4 of the House of Commons. Ofter a very long conv , r , ational discussion, the Meeting 'qpt e d the toEowinc, , resolutions:— I: I. It is the opinion of this Meeting that the mode of ap. iii . ‘ „Driation adopted, or supposed to be adopted, by Mr. Stanley, ti o j'iust, and not fair as regards the Island of Jamaica."—Car ; unanimously. 2 . That the distribution of the grant `per capita' is most 4,.. 145 , the speediest, and most generally just, both as it con -4 the Colonies and individuals." W. n S ir W GRANT oppo , ..ed the resolution, but finding . 4 ,k ti 'Jody t o sec o n d it, lie withdrew his opposition and re red, and the resolution was carried unanimously. , 3 . That a Committee be appointed to draw up a Memorial )47 Presented to Mr. Stanley, conformably t o the two preceding to,'lntions, and that the following Noblem en and Gen t l emen do the said Committee—Viscount St. Vincent, Earl of Hare -d,h and Messrs. Burge, Philpots, Hodson, and Barrett." 4 he thanks of the meeting were then given to the Noble Ch airman, and the meeting was dissolved. CRICKET.--KENT AGAINST ENGLAND.— thatch between eleven Gentlemen of Kent and nine w'tlernen of England, with Litlywhite and Pila f was on Lord's Ground, on Monday Tuesday, in the tvlsetice of a numerous assemblage of t anateurs, among 4: 41 Were many admirers of the game from Kent. On l k ,ing the field, Kent were the decided favourites. Eng eommeneed the game, and before dinner the whole 1 4 thei r wickets were lowered for 57; out of which num- I 'M% W ARD scored 22. There was much ill-luck, as 4,,," as indifferent playing, on the part of England in then . Ct inni ngs , a nd on Kent going in, we thought Dime C t tane was about to frown on them also ; but Messrs. hc 4 TCHE U L L, FAGG, MYNN, JENNER, and HARENCE, i' ll t.heir excellent and spirited play, added 87 to the sesre, 1 ) , 101 at the con clusion of the innings, amounted to 112 , l k g a majority of 55 in their favour. About sewn, Eng i'ntnmenced their second innings, and on Ttnsday, at li t ° "Vock the Gentlemen of Kent were pronounced to ` 4 e widners, in one hand and six runs to spare. 01., 0 bore Pet, P. id b 4 7t aIII O soI j• W I ; e bid' l utO y tt d ob°' to 0 0 coo a . o df , hio theo the nt i c e , ;id he t be" _... 09' , 1 • e llOw ovt' r ,rOO n de P re 00 10 is .15 t e b r so" as' apj COMMON HALL, JUNE 21. THE EXTRAORDINARY MISTAKE MADE BY THE RECORDER. Mr. STEVENS came forward to call the attention of the Livery to the late conduct of the Recorder in sending down a warrant to Newgate for the execution of a man, named Job Cox, notwithstanding the fact that the Royal mercy had been extended to that prisoner, amongst many others. It must, he said, have been most painful to those he addressed, as well as to himself, to observe in the newspapers a report of what was believed to have oc curred before his Majesty's Privy Council, relative to the case of a convict who had been sentenced to die, and the warrant for whose execution the Recorder had signed and sealed, and transmitted to Newgate, to be carried into effect by the Sheriffs.—(Groans and hisses at the Re corder.) It was the right of the meeting to inquire into the authenticity of any report with the circumstances of which it was probable they might, from the nature of their office, be acquainted. It appeared from the report he allu ted to that it was by mere chance the life of au individual was not taken away, and that, too, in conse quence of the conduct of an officer of the citizens of Lon don.—(Loud groans.) He wished to know from the Sheriffs whether the account which appeared in the news. papers was true? The LORD MAYOR stepped forward and said—lt is not my wish by any means to interrupt any discussion which you may think proper to engage in, but I am acquainted with this subject, and it is my duty to state that it has been taken up this day by the Court of Aldermen, whose officer the Recorder is. Mr. HUNT—What do we care for the Court of Alder n ? The LORD MAYOR—The Court of Aldermen appointee. him, and he is their officer. A Committee of the whole Court has been appointed to investigate the case. Now, as great agitation seems to exist on the question, I submit whether it would not be advisable to wait for that investi gation —(Criss of " No, no.") The Court has men tioned the circuit stance to the Recorder—[We understand that upon the motion of Alderman Venabl. a, the Com mittee was appoinel—and he admits that he has com mitted an error.—(Groans, arid laughter.) The Com mittee will, however, duly investigate the whole matter ; and, under the circumstances, I submit whether it would not be proper to postpone this discussion.—(Cries of " No, no," with cheers for the Lord Mayor.) Mr. Sxevkses felt high gratification at what they hail been told was the determination of the Court of Alder men. The conduct of that Court in at once taking up the question did them infinite credit; but he was of opi nion that he should not be doing his duty to his fellow citizens or the public, if he did not express his feelings, and propose a means of assisting the Court of Aldermen in the duty which they were about to perform in their Committee. He understood that had it not been for a conversation which accidentally tock place between the Chief Justice of the King's Bench and one of the Under Sheriffs, a fellow creature might by this time not have been in existence.—(Loud groans, and several persons, looking towards the Reoorder, cried out, " Oh, Job Cox Job Cox !") From this error it was evident that the Recorder was an old man, imbecile, and utterly unfit to perform the duties of the office he held.—(Loud cheers.) It appeared that the Recorder had been present at the very Priv!' Council at which the Royal clemency was extended to the convict, and that he followed up that act of mercy by issuing his warrant with the black seal.—(Expressiuns of disgust.) He (Mr. Stevens) requested to know whether the statements in the papers were correct? Sheriff HUMPIIERy—They certainly are correct. Mr. STEvENs said, there was another extraordinary mistake, as it appeared to him. It appeared that up to Thursday night the Recorder persisted in the mistake he had committed. Now, he would ask whether, after such conduct, such a man was fit to be continued in such an office ?—(Loud cries of " No, no, never.") If the unfortunate man had perished, what recompence ssould it be to his friends that he had died by mistake ? He (Mr. Stevens) had prepared resolutions on the subject in aid of the Coin t of Aldermen, and lie trusted the meeting would adopt them.—(Loud cheers.) Ile then reed the reso lutions—(for which see advertisement). Sheriff HUMPIIERY knew nothing of the length of time the Recorder continued in his mistake, but he knew that the Recorder had made it. That part of the resolution which alluded to the neces sity of applying to the Learned Gentleman to resign, was received with shouts of applause and laughter. Mr. HUNT seconded tie resolution. The Lord Mayor had, he said, acted well in telling them that the Court of Aldermen were about to take up the question; but the Livery would take care that the Court of Aldermen should not smother or strangle it.—(Laughter and cheers.) It was said that the Recorder was not an officer of the Lively. If he was not, what hail he to do there that day ? What brought him amongst them at all? He was their officer, and they would pass their opinion upon him. What might not have been the consequence if the public press had not directed the attention of the Chief Justice to the error ? Why this imbecile old man would have allowed the Sheriffs to go down to Newgate, and a fellow creature would have lost his life.—(Groans.) Many an innocent man had been executed, but here was a man whose life had been spared by the Sovereign, to be en dangered by the Recorder, who was so much in the habit of signing death-warrants, that be looked upon the case as a mere matter of course, and considered that, notwith standing all that had been done,the man ought to be hanged. Now if it had happened that the man had been ex. ecuted, would not that have been murder?—(Loud cries of " Yes," and groans.) He knew what the law would say in the event of such a transaction, but he would not hesitate to say himself, that the person who caused the execution ought to be hanged upon the same gallows himself.—(Loud laughter, cheers, and groans.) He was not fond of shedding blood, but if blood had been shed, he certainly should wish to behold the Learned Officer taking the place of the murdered man.—(Loud cheers, and groans, and laughter.) He agreed in the resolutions, but he believed they would have no effect upon the man they applied to, the habits of that Learned Gentleman were such, that an appeal to him would prove quite ineffectual; but if the Livery encountered any difficulty in accom plishing his removal, a Common Hall should be forth with summoned to address the King.—(Loud and con tinued cheering.) Mr. HAINES (the Common Councilman) said, that it had been imputed to him that he had neglected to bring forward a motion of which he had given notice, relative to the conduct of the Recorder, about two years age, in keeping a report all night in his pocket. He hail repeatedly attempted to tiring forward that motion, but the Court had overruhd him. The case was a very serious one, and a natural forerunner of the late mistake, which no one more deeply reprobated than he.—(Loud cheers.) He most fully acquiesced in the resolutions, and hoped they would immediately have the desired effect. The resolutions were agreed to amidst the most awful acclamations, and with the most complete unanimity. STATE OF TRADE AT BOLTON.—Withiit the last month the demand for our manufactures, both plain and fancy, has been brisk, and large sales have been effected, chirfly for shipping, at better prices. The weavers are in full employment ; but, we are sorry to say, without any material improvement in Wages.— Wakefield Journal. IRON TRADE.—Messrs. KENRICK and Co., of the Varteg Irun Works, near Pontypool, have advanced the wages of their workmen 10 per cent., although they were not reduced when the price of iron was so very low. , M0717/2Mith shire Merlin. THE HARVEST.—COUNTY OF DUBLIN.— We are delighted to learn that the wheat crop in the neighbourhood of Dublin has escaped injury from the late heavy rains. The fine weather, yesterday, greatly facili tated the saving of hay, which is stated to be, in general, a plentiful crop.—. Dublin Morning Register. HO USE OF LORDS, JuNg 24. Mr. BERNAL and others brought up the Exchequer Bills Bill, and other private Bills. The Edinburgh Improvement Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from Inverness and its neighbourhood, praying their Lordships to take early measures for the extinction of slavery in the West Indies, due regard being had for the safety of the colonies and the rights of property. Lard SUFFIELD presented a petition from Hexham, in Northumberland. praying for Church Reform. The Separatists Affirmation Bill was read a first time. The LORD CHANCELLOR having taken his seat on the Woolsack, Lord ELLENBO ROUGH rose and said, before the order of the day was read he wished to ask a question or two concerning the resolutions to be proposed to the House to-morrow on the subject of slavery in the West Indies, which it was important f.,r their Lordships to know. The first related to the compensation granted to the proprietors and slave owners in the West Indies. It was important they should know at what time and in what manner it was proposed by his Majesty's Govern ment, that the 20,000,000/. were to be raised, and how it was proposed to pay the interest ? And further, it was extreme!) , important to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to propose any measure this session, with a view to carry into effect the resolutions to be contained in the Message to-morrow ? Earl GREY apprehended that the proper time for re considering the matters contained in these questions was when the whole subject came regularly before the House. It was proposed by the resolutions, to grant a sum of money as compensation, but the time for the payment of that money was to depend upon the Legislative assemblies passing such measures as would carry the reso lutions into eff-ct. As to the manner of raising the money, and the terms of it, he was not at that moment prepared to answer the Noble Lord. To-morrow it was proposed only to call upon the House to •agree with the general principle of giving freedom to the slaves, on the principle of compensation. The next question of the Noble Baron was, whether it was the intention of the Government to go on with the measure in the present session. To that he had to say, that the Bill was already prepared, and would be introduced into the other House, and proceeded with instantly. Lord ELLENBOROUGH begged to ask further whe ther the Bill related to compensation only, or to other matters? Earl GREY—The Bill does relate to the other parts of the question. LOCAL COURTS. On the order of the day being read for the House re solving itself into Committee on the Local Courts Bill, The E,rl of ELDON rose. He thought this one of the most objectionable Bills that had been introduced, with many others, into Parliament, and, so help him God, it was his opinion if it passed en masse, no man would be able to explain the law out of Londor with re spect to real property.—(Hear.) Nothing but the most sincere wish to do his duty to the subjects of the country, and particularly to the poorer ones, would have induced him to give that determined opposition to the Bill which he was afraid he should feel himself compelled to do. If the House should think it right to go into Committee on the Bill, and should make such al terations in it as to render its objectionable p irts no longer so, he would come down prepared to support its third reading; but if, as he thought, it was of such a nature as to render it incapable of being made a Bill to which he could accede, be should feel it to be his duty, on the third reading, to record the dissent of an old lawyer to it. In his opinion, the Bill was a mere experiment—a species of legislation which, be thanked God, that House hail not hitherto sanctioned. The first object professed by the Bill was to have local courts, not throughout the country, but in such counties, or in such districts of counties, as the framers of the Bill might wish to try their experiment in. What would be the consequence of that? Why that in six or eight districts of a county they would act according to the old law, and in one or two others they would proceed upon the experimental law.—(Hear.) No man who had not lived so long in the profession as he had, knew the difference between old experienced Judges and a young man who had been only 10 years at the bar, or a sergeant at law, who might not have been 10 years at the bar. He should never consent, therefore, to letting the causes of the people be tried by any other than the ancient Judges of the land. The second part of the Bill was as much an experiment as the first; he meant that with respect to the Court of Reconcilement. Another part of the Bill was to make a vast alteration in the law of p:actice. The Noble Earl concluded by moving that the Bill be recommitted this day six months. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that he was sure his Noble Friend would soon view the Bill in some other light than he did at present, though he was afraid be would not support it. He thought lie had some reason to complain of the manner in which he had been met to night by the Noble and Learned Lord who had just sat down. He was now to undergo another process, and combat another Noble and Learned Lord.—(Hear, hear.) Their Lordships had decided in favour of the prin ciple the other night, and now, when it was pro po:,ed to go into Committee, there was another debate upon the principle, and so the thing might go on for ever. The alarm respecting law reforms, which on this, as on former occasions, his Noble and Learned Friend had ma. nifested, seemed to deprive him of that acuteness and accu racy of judgment which were necessary in coming to a correct knowledge of the nature and principles of the intended alterations. He confidently expected, that when the measure was reduced to its proper size,—when it was shown in its own true and natural dimensions,—when it was proved that it was not likely to produce those evils which the scared imagination of his Noble and Learned Friend had predicted, it would receive the sanction of the House: He could not, however, and he was sorry for it, hope for the support of his Noble and Learned Friend to the measure,—he could not hope that his Noble and Learned Friend would hereafter feel less repugnance to it than he did at present. First of all his Noble and Learned Friend, exercising his own judgment on the subject, had assumed that a mass of measures, having extensive law reforms for their object, were to be considered at once, — were to be taken in the lump,—were to be swallowed at one gulp,—without any time being given for deglutition or digestion. So far from that being the case, the purpose of those who had the care of these measures was io avoid such haste,—to render it, if it were possible, impossible for any one to bring that charge. To attempt to pre clude the bare possibility of himself and bis Learned Friend being subjected to such a charge, the measures had all been separated ; they had been kept sedulously apart ; one by one they had been propounded to their Lordships—one by one they bad been brought forward, with such expla nations as could be given of them,—and on no occasion had their Lordships been called on to consider more than one of them. All they bad done on any occasion, and all they had been called on to do on any given evening, was to advance one of these measures one little moderate step. His Noble and Learned Friend had expressed himself sorry that they were legislating in such a hurry ; but to show how slowly they had proceeded, he would just ad vert to the course which had been pursued. First, the principle of the Bill was, by agreement, to be taken and discussed on the motion for going into Committee. He (the Lord Chanc,llor) came down and opened the measure to their Lordships, a debate ensued, was brought to a close, and, without a division, the House resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. Why, then, one would have thought, when their Lordships had gone into Com mittee, and disposed of the principle of the mea•ure,— when, in fact, they had been twice in Committee, and made amendments in the Bill, that all further opposition to the measure as a whole would have been at an end. But now, on a motion for recommitting the Bill, up got his Noble and Learned Friend and made a motion which was directed against not only the details but the principle of the mea sure, which had already been recognised. He never knew such a course to have been adopted in either House of Parliament. On the motion that the House should re solve itself into a Committee, into which they had pre viously gone, and in which they bad made some progress, and when they were about to make still, further progress, his Noble and Learned Friend rose and proposed the extraordinary amendment that the Bill should be recom mitted that day six months, instead of going on, and mak ing some further progress in this great question. This course of proceeding was somewhat hard on their Lord ships. He would not complain of any inconvenience which it had caused to himself, although be must say that it was a hardship on him also. They had taken the debate on the principle,—they had gone into Committee,— night after night, by considering the Bill in Committee, they had admitted the principle,—and yet several at tempts had afterwards been made to impugn it. One night he had a long argument with one Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Lyndhurst), when the principle of the Bill was largely discussed; that Noble and Learned Friend came down on another night, and, on the motion for com mitting the Bill, entered on the same subject ; and now, when they were about recommitting the Bill, he was corn pelted again to renew the debate with hie other Noble and Learned Friend. When this debate was closed, and his Noble and Learned Friend's motion was negatived, as he hoped their Lordships would negative it, after they had gone into the Committee, and made some progress, he supposed some other Noble Lord would, on a future occasion, come down and renew the discussion of the principle of the measure, renew the debate, renew the opposition to the Bill, and with precisely the same result. He knew not where this sort of proceeding was to end—he knew not when the discussion was to terminate—if this plan were adopted ; because he who was defeated one night might, after three deb ace, come forward and raise a fourth de bate; another Noble Lord might raise, in the same man ner, a fifth debate, and thus create an immensity of delay. They might still go on thus debating the principle of the Bill (after it had been decided on), day after day, and that, too, on one stage of the measure. This he thought a most extraordinary mode of meeting a question. He never knew it to have been adopted in the greatest heats that had prevailed in either House of Parliament. He had never known such a system to have been acted on in the House of Commons, amidst the fiercest debates, for the purpose of carrying any point. Such a course had not been pursued even on that great question the Reform Bill, although the greatest disposition to oppose and to obstruct it prevailed. On that occa sion, the course of opposition which Noble Lords now adopted had not been brought forward in either House of Parliament. He judged, from some of his Noble and Learned Friend's objections, that be had misunderstood, because he had certainly misrepresented the details of this Bill. His Noble and Learned Friend complained that it was an experiment. In one sense he would claim the expression, he had made use of it himself, but certainly not in the sense in which his Noble and Learned Friend used it, nor in the sense in which it had been used by his Noble and Learned Friend the late Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, from similar inadvertence. There was no one that ever mooted the question of local courts for the last fifteen years—and he followed several who had done so—who were not convinced that the establish ment of those courts was expedient, that such courts were necessary—that the time had come when this great and salutary improvement of the law should be carried into effect—that the Legislature was called on to grant this mighty blessing, this act of common justice to his Majesty's subjects. It was no experiment, there fore, on this point—namely, whether these courts were expedient or necessary, or ought to be established. If any Noble Lord doubted this, and much less if he denied it, if he thought this was an experiment in the sense of the Noble and Learned Lords to whom he had alluded, he certainly would have no right to expect that Noble Lord's support on this occ 'shin. But the Bill pro ceeded on a principle the very contrary of that which had been asserted. It went to put an end to the doubt that such courts ought to be established. The point was settled. But thus far it was an experiment—it was deemed neces sary to see how the plan worked, in order that they might know bow to improve its machinery, and to render its details more perfect ; and, therefore, it was proposed to establish two or three of these courts in different places before they were spread over the whole country. They would thus have tie advantage of knowing bow far the details answered,—how far the machinery of the court was effective,—how far the minuter parts of the system were adapted to answer the proposed end, which it was impossible for them to know till they bad had the benefit of experience. They would thus be enabled to avoid evils, and to introduce that which would be good and advantageous to the measure according to the information which this trial would afford them. There was, however, no question whatever as to the expediency of establishing those courts. There was nothing of experiment in that. All that was aimed at in taking this course was to give a fair trial to the working of the detaiie and machinery of the measure, in order that they might see what they would do. To show how unfairly men, actuated by strong feelings, and anxious to advance, even at I•azard, strong objections against a measure, were apt to conduct themselves, he would jest advert to what had been alleged against this measure and the introducers of it. If he had at once said, " Let those courts be immediately established over all England—let local courts be fixed in every county or every part of a county, where it may seem desirable," would not his Noble and Learned Friend have exclaimed—" What ! are you going to establish 20 or 25 courts, before any mortal man can possibly know whether the machinery of those courts is adapted to your purpose ? I recommend you, in the first instance, to try three or four courts ; you will then see how the machinery of the proposed Bill is likely to answer, and you will know how to proceed. Improvements may be suggested, and then, and then only, you may spread those courts all over the country." His Noble and Learned Friend objected to the inschinery of the Court of reconcilement, and spoke of the in-xpediency of making the Judge of the local court also a Judge in cases of reconcilement, inasmuch as if he failed in recon ciling the parties, he would not be able with any degree of propriety to try the cause. His Noble and Learned Friend complained that this difficulty was not provided for, but he (the Lord Chancellor) maintained that it was, and that the only thing necessary was to take the two contiguous districts and unite the courts to this extent, that no reconcilement cases which failed in the one court should be taken as actions to the other. His Noble and Learned Friend had alluded to him as at tacking the profession of the law to which he had the honour to belong (a profession to which, and to the members of which, he felt as sincerely attached as his Noble and Learned Friend), and his Noble and Learned Friend appeared to blame him for having described some of the members of that profession as being hostile to changes and improvements in the law, and liable to the general charge of illibetality. Now, he certainly had stated, and was ready to repeat the statement, that it was not unnatural, but the very contrary (though much to be regretted) that from their character and habits, lawyers were most averse from change in any part of the system under which many of them bad lived long, in which they had grown old, and to which they were attached; that they were, beyond all bounds of reason or justice, averse, not so seuch on account of their own interest, in many cases (such as that of his Noble and Learned Friend), as in consequence of irresistible prejudice to any material alteration in the law ; and, further, that in a great num ber of cases they were influenced in their opposition to change by views connected with their own interest by which they could not help being swayed, and for being swayed by which he did not blame, but, on the con trary, wasrary, perfectly natural them. Under such circumstances, uatural that persons in the legal profession shoseid be extremely set against improve ments in the law, and should oppose them witli all their might. He said nothing against it ; it was quite natural and unavoidable; but that was no reason why he should yield to the opposition—(Hear)—it was no reason why their Lordships should yield to it. It might be the interest of the legal profession to resist such Bills as the present; but it was not the interest of the country or of suitors that they should be resisted successfully; their Lordships would bear that in mind, and, moreover, that the interest of members of the profession of the law constituted no reason for the legislature turning a deaf ear to the cases of those who were the prey of the profession, or, more pro perly speaking, of the abuses and faults of the existing system. He would go further, and say that the system itself might be to a considerable extent good—its founda tion might be solid, and the bulk of the superstructure pure—the benefits count cted with it might outweigh its defects ; all this might be perfectly true of our legal system, but did it follow that we were not to introduce all the improvements which it required, and of which it was susceptible ?—( Hear.) He asked their Lordships, or any other men living who had no sinister motives or private interests to warp their judgments, whether bene ficial alterations ought to be impeded because of the reluctanc e of the profession to admit them ? He ap• pealed from the narrow prejudices of a few indivi duals, and from the interested views of more, and from the sinister motives of others, to the good sense of their Lordships and of all mankind,—lie appealed from those whose prejudices, quite apart from, and inde pendent of, any possible private interest or personal motive leagued them (as in the case of his Noble and Learne Friend) with the interested members of the profession, and induced them to lend their powerful co-operation to tho , who were steadiastly set against all improvement—he ap pealed from such individuals to the country.—(Hear.) This de scribed system been d a as a l but o f a local revolut i on, j u rs d ic t which onw w h a ie s h c h h a a r d a s te rjs unsettling the foundations of property and tearing up law by the roots, bad been in a considerable degree the lass of Ireland for the last half century. In that country a similar system, extending like the present to sums of 201.. had long existed without causing society to be disorgan ized, the country to be laid waste, or the foundations of property and all rights to be destroyed. Not one of the speculators and theorists who had of late years discussed Irish affairs ascribed the mischie aof which they corn plained to the jurisdiction of assistant barristers under the civil bill process, yet, as he had already stated, to the ex tent of 201. the local courts possessed jurisdiction all over that p irt of the kingdom. When Lord Clare first esta blished that system, he was charged, pretty much as another Chancellor had lately been charged, with an un natural hatred of hie own profession, with a. neglect of their interests, if not with a disposition to destroy the profession. Lord Clare despised these charges; he went on ; the Legislature adopted his plan in 1794 or 1795, about the period of the French revolutionary war, when there existed a morbid hatred of all improvements, pro vided they were to be effected by any change in existing institutions ; notwithstanding, that, the Legislature adopted the measure which had been since, to the great ben.fit of that part of the kingdom, the law of the 'and. His Noble and Learned Friend had made some remarks on the subject of the bankruptcy system, and he confessed he did feel a little surprised at the course of his Noble and Learned Friend's observations. His Noble and Learned Friend said so much in praise of the existing system, and, landed all persons connected with its administration so, highly, more particularly the country commissioners, that he could hardly believe his own ears when he beard such an eulogium fall from the Noble and Learned Lord's lips. Surely, thought he (the Lord Chancellor), the Court of Chancery had produced a marvellous effect en his Noble Friend, or else his Noble Friend's retirement from that office which he now so unworthily filled had worked a mighty change in his Noble Friend's sentiments; for it did so happen that the first or second day of his Noble and Learned Friend's taking his seat in Court was sig nalize,: by an opinion on the operation of the bankruptcy system, his representation of which he (the Lord Chancel lor) scarcely flattered himself he could persuade their Lordships to be true, unless he quoted the actual words made use of on that occasion.—" The Lord Chancellor took the first opportunity to express his strong feeling of indignation at the frauds committed under cover of the bankruptcy laws, and to declare his determination to do all in his power to repress them. His Lordship added, with considerable warmth, that the abuse of the bank ruptcy law was a disgrace to the country, and that it would be better at once to repeal all the existing statutes on the subject, than to go on as at present." The El - r 1 of ELDON—Then come to Parliament. The LORD CHANCELLOR—Yes ; I agree with my Noble and Learned Friend, and think it safer to come to Parliament and ask it to decide on the subject, than, sitting as Judge in a Court without appeal, to pronounce my own opinion. —(Hear, and laughter.) Surely ;Ali. latter would be a far more questionable course than coming as I do, with all humility, to ask your Lordships to amend a law which admits of so many abuses. Their Lord ships recollected what had been said about security of pro perty, and the general advantage and good of all per sons under the existing system. Let them see how that system worked, according to his Noble and Learned Friend, who went on to say—" There is no mercy shown to the estate; nothing is less thought of than the objects of the Commission. Commissions, as they are frequently conducted in the country, are little more than so much stock-in-trade for the assignees, the solicitors, and (whom did their Lordships think?) the Commissioners."—(Hear, and a laugh.) Here, then, according to his Noble and Learned Friend, was a most unuoly alliance amongst the very parties whom he now commended—an alliance formed for the flagitious purpose of pillaging the bankrupt's estate. His Noble Friend proceeded to state, that, " instead of solicitors attending to their duty in a proper manner, as ministers of the court in commissions of bankruptcy, commissions were treated as matters of private and personal interest—in fact, as so much stock in trade." He added, that " unless a tight band were held upon commissions, they would be come as great a nuisance as any in the land."—(Hear, hear, hear.) Such were his Noble Friend's sentiment , in 1801. He did not mean to say that things were me now greatly better than they were at that period; pro bably they were, but every one must be well aware that though there might not exist at present grounds fur the same bulk of vituperation as his Noble Friend had given utterance to some thirty years ago, nevertheless that thirty and odd years had not so purified the system as to exclude all cause of blame. The Lord Chancellor proceeded to show that he bad proceeded with great caution in relation to the present subject, and recounted the various steps that had been taken since the question was first opened by himself in the Commons about three years ago. He brought the Bill forward in their Lordships' House in De cember, 1830, and renewed it in the ensuing Session, when it was referred to the common law commissioners, who having reported in its favour, it was ❑ote once more brought before the House. How any malt could think that he had proceeded too precipitately he could not ima gine : if (according to a phrase now very much in fashion) lie had been guilty of adopting a vacillating line of con duct, or of evincing infirmity of purpose (another fa vourite charge against the Governme•nt), he might have experienced more difficulty in defending himself. With respect to the new bankruptcy system, he had no hesita tion in stating that the general consent of the mercantile classes proved its success in the metropolis, and be looked forward to the establishment of local courts as affordinp, an opportunity to extend it to the provinces. The Earl of ELDON admitted having complained of the working of the bankruptcy system in 1801, but he endeavoured to repress the evil in his judicial capacity, and did not come to Parliament for assistance. The House divided— Content Not.content Majority for the Committee The House then went into Committee. Upon the tipit clause being proposed, Lord WYNFORD objected to the increased patronage end influence which the Bill would conf r upon Govern- ment. He should move by way of amendment to omit the words " for any one, or more, county or countie., riding or ridings," and insert in their place " for the counties of Lancaster and Kent." He named those two counties in order to see the working of the system in a manufacturing and agricultural district. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the amendment of his Noble and Learned Friend would have an effect the very reverse of that which he proposed. As to the allega tMn that this Bill would increase the patronage of the Crown, he at once admitted the fact, and he regretted it; but he did not see how it could be avoided. He once thought th it he saw a way of disposing of the patronage without vesting it in the Crown, it having been suggested that it would be a good way to vest it in the Lords-Lieu tenant of counties, but, on consideration, it was thought that this would be a very bad way of disposing of it. It was next suggested that it would be well to vest the ap pointments in the sheriffs of counties ; but this also was abandoned as not being likely to lead to any satisfactory result. The judges were next mentioned as proper tlepo sitaries of this patronage, but he thought that those were still more obj"ctionable as dispensers of patronage than either of the others, for, in his opinion, those learn ed personages could not be kept too free from any con tact with matters of patronage ; and, indeed, he regretted that even that of the appointment of the revising barristef s bad been vested in them. On looking at every mode of disposing of this patronage that had been suggested, he thought. that the least objectionable would be that of vesting it in the responsible advisers of the Crown, acting s thy would in the lace of the public.—(Hear.) It was well kreit,n,' that when lie first introduced this measure in the House of Corninon. , , he had proposed that the patronage should he vested in the Crown. and that, it would be remembered, was at a time when he, or any of those political friends with whom he acted, could have had no idea that they would be the dispensers of that patronage. He would now say a word as to the salaries to be gisron to die judges to be appointed uncle! the Bill, and he must obset vr, that if P triiament should give only small salaries the Bill would tail.—(Hear, hear.) The wisest plan would be to make it well worth th while of men of talents and ability to accept the appoint- The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the question was not qui'e regular, considering that the amount of salary was to be decided in another place; hut he had no objection to state to his Noble and Learned Friend his own individual opinion of what those salaries ought to be, and it was, that it ought not to be less than 1,5001. a-year for each judge ; hut, in saying this, lit was to b- subject to 'uture discussion. He thought that the salary ought not to be less than the amount he had said at the least. Lord LYNDHURST read the clause in the Bill, which mtated that the salary should not be less than 1,500/. a-year, with such additions from the amount of fees as his Majesty might direct, so that the whole income of any such judge should not exceed 2,000/. a•year. He would not offer any 'urther objection; he felt that it was disheartening and of no use to enter into objections against the details of a mea -ure in which it appeared (as we understood the Noble and Learned Lord) that so few of their Lordships took any interest. The Earl of WICKLOW said that the system of the assio rant barristers who presided in the Civil Bill Court, in Ire !arid, had given great satisfaction, and in one respect psrti eulai ly—that the barristers were not resident in the county. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that the system of assistant b irristera in Ireland was so different from that which was proposed under this Bill, that it would he im possible to assitnilate them. One objection to the attempt Mould be, that if the same system were adopted unde'r , leis Bill as in the system of assistant barristers in Ireland, they must necessarily get a very inferior set of merest the judges, because necessarily they must have men at much lower salaries. One great advantage of the proposed plan in this Bill would be, that the small local jurisdictions, the courts of request, and other small debt courts, which in general at present did not administer justice either for the advantage of the debtor or creditor, or of the com munity at large, would gradually merge in the jurisdic tion of the new courts. In this respect he thought there would be a great advantage in having a resident judge. Lord WYNFORD was still of opinion that the advan tage would be gr••ater if there was not a resident judge. Lord CLONCURRY suggested that it would be as ad vantage if the assistant barristers in Ireland were selected from a higher class of the profession. The Earl of WICKLOW wished to know whether the Noble Baron desired to assimilate the practice in Ireland to that which would take place under this Bill ? Lord CLONCURRY did not wish to do so as to resi. dence, but he wished to see men of higher standing at the bar selected for those appointments, and that they should get a higher salary, so as to prevent them from the ne cessity of practising at the bar. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that a frequent change of counties would be inconvenient, and often op. pressive to the individuals appointed under the Bill. What ever disadvantage there might appear in a constant resi dence of a judge in the county would, he was sure, be counteracted by the high character of the men who should be selected for such appointments. Lord LYNDHURST would mention one instance of a Learned Judge, who in integrity and intelligence was not surpassed by any individual on the bench, yet that nio,t Learned Person had given great dissatisfaction by con .tantly choosing one circuit (the northern) for a great lumber of years : and if such as objection was raised in his case, it would, of coarse, be still stronger in the case of one of a judge of inferior standing and acquirements. The amendment was then negatived, sad the clause agreed to. Tie 2d and 3d clauses were then agreed to. On the 4th clause being read, Lord LYNDHURST could not understand from the Bill what wis to be the extent of the jurtyliction of these c"urts--whether it was to extend to one, or two, or three counties. The LOPD CHANCELLOR said that the' arrange ment of this part of the measure must be l,ft to the exe outive. These was a great difficulty in defining the ex tent of the boundaries, as was found in the case of the Reform Bill. The extent of the jurisdiction of a court would depend on the circumstances of the district in which it was to act. Now, for instance, in the West Riding of the county of York there would be one court at Leeds, vhich would take in that town and a district tt, the eas: of it, and another court in a different part of the riding for the renisinint parts of it. Lord WYNF01:11), in alluding to the travelling expenses to be allowed to the judges in these courts, suggested that 503/. would not be sufficient. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thonght that 500/. a year would be more than sufficient to defray their tra velling expenses. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that 5001. a-year would be a large allowance for travelling expenses unless These judges were going to travel with a c o ach and ei g ht. _._ For his own part,hs was content to travel post, and if these judges would only be content to travel in the same style, they might travel 5,000 miles in the year for 500/. —(A laugh, and a cry of •` No.") He said yes; any man travel 100 mile• for 101., and if he knew anything of the cornrows rules of arithmetic, he might travel 5,000 for 500/. But that was immaterial, as these judges in all probability would not travel more than 20 miles at any one time from their own homes. The Commissioners of the Insolvent Court had to travel three circuits in the year, and yet their salaries were only 1,500/. a year, sad their travelling expenses. Lord LYNDHURST suggested that three er four judges, travelling circuits three times a year, like the Com missioners of the Insolvent Court, would he a much more useful machinery , han the 25 commissioners to be appointed under this Bill. Th it was the system which he would oppose to the system of his Noble apd Ls4rned Friend, and tor this reason, that it would not detach these courts an entirely from We.tininster-hall. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that there was no- thing which you might not prove, provided you were °ermined to assume the whole matter in debste. With di respect to the Commissioners of the Insolvent Court, 4gaimt whom he did not mean to say a word, and whom he readily admitted to be most excellent men in their profession, be did not think that three or four Judges, even with abilities equal to theirs, would be able to perform the labours which it would be the duty of these twenty five Commissioners to go through. Besides, these three or four Judges would be a sort of perambulatory court ; whereas the object of this measure was to have a court upon the spot always open. Lord LYNDHURST repeated that the object which he had chiefly in view was not to detach these courts entirely from Westminster-hall. Talk of assumption, indeed why, the whole basis of this Bill rested on assutnptieu. The LORD CHANCELLOR--No such thing ; it rests on evidence.—( Hear, hear.) The fifth clause was then agreed to. On the sixth clause, which proposes that " the judges ind registrars shall not be removeable except by address of the two Houses of Parliament," Lord WYNFORD rose to snake an objection to it. It was rather too much to have the reeisirara of these courts—who were merely ministerial officers—only re moveable by addresses from the two Houses of Parliament. The LORD CHANCELLOR defended the clause. If you give a man an office so long as he shall behave himself therein, how are you to remove him from it if he behave himself ill, except after convicting of such ill behaviour? The registrar in the Court of Chancery, and the protho. notaries in the courts of common law, held their offices bring good behaviour ; and that proviso gave the two Houses of Parliament the power of removing them by an address to the Crown. He thought, at any rate, that his Noble and Learned Friend would not objeet to placing the iudges of these courts on the same footing as the Judges of Westminster-hall. To place them on an inferior tooting would be, pro Canto, to degrade them. Lord WYNFORD agreed that these judges ought not to be in any respect degraded ; but, with regar to registtars, he would only observe that. clerks Of the peace were quite as high as these registrars, arid they coul.i be remove trorn their offices without an address, if they were convicted of misconduct in the performance of their duties. The LORD CHANCELLOR contendot r. tioil