The Sun. — London, England, 1830-11-13 00:00:00

Auditor of the Laird Ilevenite of England, ; the same of Wales, 751. ; the prince of Spice, arising from the 'media e of the Moluvea Islands, 302/. ; Inspector of Finer Pad Penalties, 861/. ; together with other items, amnia ing hot year in the mm hale (as appeared by the Parlia mentary Paper laid upon the table pursuant to the Act. 1, Ceo. IV.) to only :21 0001. Let every Member bear in mind that 24,000/, was the whole sum relinquiabed under this heal, exclusive of the Revenues derived from Scot laud. Ile (Mr. Home) therefore did not think, as far as regarded atnount, that his Majesty was entitled to any great 'credit for what lie had conceded ; in principle, how ever, it was of itmteuse importance that the King should digest himself of the power of interfering with thole dill; rent departments, small as they were, and that it should afford an opportunity of chatring the public accounts, that they might be laid before Parliament in a shape at once simple and intelli4ible. There he thought that the King had been well advised, and that much good might be the result. No individual in this or in any ' former Parliament had regretted more deeply than he had done the complex manner. in which the various items included is the Civil List had been stated. That Civil List hid beets the means of suppor tine a large Arie tueraticel body —the odium of which the King svas oh to !rear; he hul been made to keel) up establishments iu na testy connected Stith his household, and in no way • eontriliatihg to his personal comfort or to his regal dig • hitys and merely for the maintenance of an Ariatocratical interest. He held in his hand the Act of 1 Geo. 1 V., in which the payments out of the Civil List were separated lobo eight divisions, and the House would see, when Pro , erly examined, how sm a ll a p ort i on ac t ua ll y b e l onge d t o his Majesty's household. He (Mr. Hume) allowed of the • hot Clo se , amounting to two hundred and ten thousand pounds; but what had the second class to do with the gn i 4.lo, thal, consisting, as it did, of payments to the speaker of the House of Commons—to the Judges of the King'rt Court—to the Barons of the Exchequer, and to Justiees of Wales, amounting to 82,000/. ? These we re onennnected with the comfort of the King and the , dignity of the Crown, and ought to be voted by Parlia meet. The third class related to Ministers at Foreign Courts, and what bid they to do with his Majesty's homes ? Only this-.-.that it' there were by chance any over ples....any sum not required, Ministers toek grind care that it should he applied in some way or either. Why di d he Ray so ? Because by I Gar. IV., any suits not eppro. printed out of the 2013,0001. there set apart, was to be re . turned to the Exchequer. Mr. Canning, indeed in three years, had taw) great credit to the Government for return- fug to the Exchequ er t wo sum , one of 7,000/.;and the other of 13 ,000/., under this cl,ruse , but his successors bad • not effected a saving even to that extent. The fourth class in the Act was a most important branch, including the Lord Steward department, and those of Lord Chamberlain, the Master of the Robes, the Surveyor of the Works, tic. . The sum expended for these officers in 1820 was 215,000/, and in the last year it was 221,000/. Heiler Mr. Burke's 11311 of 1786, the whale amount eo appropriated was 147 • °001 ., and to that scale we ought uow to return. ' The fift h clash was that of tradeareen's balls, which un pleationably belonged to the Royal Household. One of the great abuse s of the Civil I.ist was, that the King 41 "I'l have the power to give away two or three hundred 11 "antand pound e in pensions; the public, indeed, provided the money ; ninety thousand pounds for one class of pen -14'11",) fifty thousand pounde for another, and thirty-eight thousand pounds for a (hitt! ; and lie asked whether the e (entry was in e condition to pay such enormous sums for such purposes ? Ile was roost anxious to lighten the public 11 ", "lens ) arid h e h ope d t h a t, if a C o mmittee were -remntert, it would not fail to inquire into the pensions tranted his l ate Al s j estv. Wh i le distress and 'dares ion stared the people in the face was not the time to continue the dead weight of useless pensioners. Not one I" to in twenty of them deserved such a reward, whirl) was conferred only from favour and affection. Henceforwerd the Crown unglue not to have the P l 'wer of grant i ng a (tingle pension, excepting out cf the savings of the Privy Purse. When the public 141 'l the money, the public ought to be satisfied that it was P ! ° PerlY applied. What was the result of an caantina• ' of the present Pension List? That Peers and Peer " Pear their sons, daughters, cousins, kith and kin, who Paid for Parli amentary i n fl uence, were extravagant ly e a "' for doing nothing. The time was come when there Must be as end of that system; a cheap Government was h i ow wanted --reli e f fi r t h e peop l e , by cu tti ng off all need "Penscs. At least it was clear that the pensions n e Irged on the Civil List had no connexion with the legal Household. The neat claws in the Act 1 Geo. IV., itteludetl the Lord President of the Council, the Constable cf Dover Castle, the Mager of the Hawks, the Chief Jul lice ..: of Irelandm &c. How were these offices part of the --Tat household ? What did the petitions with which 1 1. • tabl e was crowded pray ? Not that the King should 'l4eprived of a ain g le comfort—a single luxury, or of P ay thing necessary to support the dignity of the Crown. riSy only besought the House to poi an end to.all mane te'sary expences ; anti upon this point he wished to know 'thy the Constable of Dover Castle was to have 4,000/. a year Out of the Civil List ? The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER said, settees the table, that that office had been abolished some )'ears ago. Mr. 11 UslE—That may be ; but I only know that I and the item among the payments of last year. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under -e°4 to add, that the. office bad been abolished pro *Pretively. „ Mr. HUME—What, then, will the Right Hon. Gen• uem an say to the office of Master of the Hawks ? Who b haWks now? I know not, but believe that no man, -44 s II Y Wiliness to keep them. When the poor of the -ea are star v i ng , i s it a time for giving a pension ate lbe Muter of the Hawks? In addition to this , It 4 list as !Mg a a tailor's bill, of pensions altogether unnecessary, and which, of course, ought I ha aboli s h e d . I su b m i t, t h ere f ore , that all these Instead of being glossed over by the Chancellor of ; - lehetmer, ought to be !admitted to the teat of a C. —mitt ". It is question whether the nation can 1 " t() pay some e a xpenses of the kind that appear even tt be nn e ''''l Ye We have - heard declarations ..- nay, velars of •"`"Y--and what 'interpretation can be put upon that tif the King's most gracious Sprenhe but that he every practicable retrenchment to be made. If alintaters would but give his Majesty wholesome at ilt.; there was no Man in the kingdem more ready to fo t i r now arrive at the seventh class—the salaries of ( iortunission ere o f t h e T reasury an d th e Chancellor of "he Exchequer. I wish the just rubrics of all useful hlic Wya t t. to 11 0 -aid; p but is there any reason why yhould be put upon the Civil List? National ex :Jill' ought to b e p a id out o f t h e nat i ona l purse . I n th e I !h ti ' i tl :ba—oceasional payments...the greater number it, atelvputably to come before the House of Commons. state one or two of them. Here I find no lass vi l tt ao . !o,oo o / . a year for what i s ca ll e d " home secret ser• ge n : , i , 44 9erldent of the 50,000/. paid for secret service t e „ 4ll "Y. • Then we come to " special service and royal ekt i ) atY ' but I apprehend that the King's liberality ought „_ .e limited by his means. If those means are insufficient, c t 'la tire object be a good one, let his Majesty come to Par :it:cut, an d h e will not be sparingly dealt with. Wkat con ,' .ion, th en , d o I come to? This:—Tlutt the only items rMr. Burke'e Bill of 1786, and the only items at the .eut moment, that ought to be charged upon the Civil Ate die tirtti fourth, and fifth classes, via. ;--The tte 'e . r Pure e for the King an d Q ueen ; t h e es t a bli s h me nt of ii'',.hE4ousehold, and t h e tredestnen's bills for that este.. fr, /ta.! !i tents amou nt i ng to 291,000/. ; or, including 50,000 / . Queen, to 3 49,0001. Last year, the charge under tfi se th ese t h ree heads Wax the following :—For the Privy olt'er 60 000/, ; for the Lord Chamberlain, and other hi rers of the Householll,2l6,oool. and for tradesmen's 41tie' )47,0001...making, in the whale , only 412,0001. e e , '41.1,0,1,120,00U granted for the Civil List. Not ito ' !lulling more, I contend, is necessary for time comfint oiatttiliony of the Crown. On that ground, I contend k }vv "6 ' ILthie cannot prepared to vote the 970,0001. , n rerptir et l, an d that the Commons ofEngland are bound f!ttire, before they proceed to any decision upon the t ee V° If the suns necessary for the Royal Household * l' a rated as it ought to be. from other charges not " eo " fro*, nnected with it, the King would be relieved the odium under which be now laboure—that r 5 ). h g f ur l SUM as n e arly a m illi on i s annua lly n ec e s s ary that ll e own, personal expences. (If this I am sure, 114)thing but an investigation before a Committee wie lltl ahht this Hous e to come to a vote, if i t h ave an y t ', ll " Perform it s duty utyto the public. Let me remind _net thi s i s not t h e first, nor time sixth time, that Hon. ei s p r s t s l i llera mate me have contended for a ditnioution of the nditure of the Crown • w h en th e have so eon-, t"did have been nnaa ;e, y • answer-' the t et -aye rm.y met with this In trgain had been made at the commencement of the ta r ' 4114 that the compact having been entered into, it ttntrs ""t be broken. The proper time•for making reduc ,o__ of the kind is at the commencement of a new reign t e aat time note arristed- e -a fresh bargain is now to be '`ei 'and When the table groan* with petitions, and will cd,Z; ' er groan limier o ten-fad weight, we are bound to s ot 4 tite fulled inforniatien before we. enter into a new Iti i• We aught not to iallew ourselves to be t tken : ks ihth q _leitt .. thr e threebullition of th e moment, and with Imei ti . e t i enplicettion of accounts - iii rendere them utterly` cl hope,' therefor e t ' ' that the Noble Lord " th aelt) Will more ifut atioluMilt ' early day Oa o n , and if the papa at . . printed and delivered to-morrow, 1 do not s.ye how we c theake them into consideration before Wednesday er Thursday. Without previous inquiry we cannot be prepared to say what sum ought or ought not to he granted, and without that inquiry we shall not do our duty to our constituents. At all events, I protes• against the arrangement propoeed—it is uncalled for and complicated, and will be received with disappointment, if net with indignation, by the people.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BROUGHAM—I cannot pretend to say that I have yet formed a decided opinion upon the great question before the House, but I am inclined to agree with my Noble Friend near me (Lord Althorp), that even alter the promised papers are in our hands further information will be necessary. The subject is of the utmost importance in itself, and in connection with others—in its constitutional tetations, and, above all, on account of the interest it excites among our constituents. Until we have full know ledge, we ought nut to proceed to anything like a final ad judication : I therefore ant disposed to support the pro position of my Noble Friend for a Commi!tee, and the rea son urged by my Hon. Friend (Mr. Hume) is precisely the ground on which I arrive at that conclusion. We are meking an arraneement which is to last during' the life of his Majesty, and however we may hereafter find that we have been in the wrong, we may he told—end justly told —that it is too late to re-open the contract the bargain has been made, and until the demise of the Crown it cannot be altered. As I confidently hope, and earnestly pray, that that event may be long postponed, it be mimes mere and more our imperative duty not to enter, as it were, blindfold into such a permanent arrange ment. The la't arrangement was trade, I believe, in the year 1815 : the people are now more snake to their own interests, but I am sorry to say that they have nut the satne confidence either in the Executive Government or in the Parliament which they evinced, at the date I have nr ntionetl. I can only say, that I heartily concur in the objections stated by my Noble Friend : the sum elifying of the accounts would be a vast improvement. This has been frequently called a trading nation, and every private individual keeps a check upon his expen diture and the dealings of his servants ; he keeps an ac curate and intelligible system of accounts, but every mer chant, without exception, does so or he would %eon find his way into the Gazette. That in public affairs, so infinitely snore important, a plain, rational, intelligible, certain, and natural system, should be superseded by a system unplain, irrational, .unintelligible, 'uncertain, and not in the least natural, is indeed most extraordinary. The exigency for simple accounts, where the even interest upon the debt amounts to many millions, is ten-fold in creased. The amount does not one jot add to the difficulty, for it is just as easy to keep a system of accounts where millions as whet e units are concerned. This is a point which every Leidy knows, even the Chancellor of the Ex chequer.—(Hear, and laughter.) I own I had some diffi culty in following the statement of the Right Hon. Gentle man, and I should, perhaps, say, that it was my fault if I did not find teat my difficulty was shared by my Hop. Meads round me. It appears to me, that instead of taking this occasion to simplify matters, he had added to their confusion ; he has talked of subtraction and addition, and added apparently only to subtract ; fur that novel course —novel with any body else—l, for one, do not see the ab solute necessity. It seems to me to be most unreasonable, absurd, and unfair, towards the King, that he should ap parently cost the isountly three or four times as much as his actual expenditure. It is well known among us that the King does not spend nearly the whole of the money we are called upon to vote ; but out of doers it is generally thought that he consume, every farthing of it, and com parisons are every day made between the cost of a King of England and of a_ President of the United States. " See (say those ignorant of matter* of finance of this kind) the difference between a Republic and a Monarchy : the President of the United States is paid 5,000/. or 6.0001. a-year, and the King of England more than a million." This comparison is exceedingly unjust and inaccurate; but whose fault is it that it is emit ? Nor ought we to he much surprised that the people fall into a trap which year after year Ministers take so much pains to dig for them.—(Hear, hear.) Milton preferred a Republic to a monarchy, because, as he said, the mere trappings of a monarchy would fit out a republic; and what course could be more fit or natural for us to take than to separate the trappings from the substance, and to take from the charge of the Civil List the expenses of Foreign Ministers, and many others that have no sort of connection with it? But what is our course? We take a great deal of what isnot trapping, and, by covering it with gloss anti slime, we not only make it appear trapping, but we exaggerate it beyond its proper dimensions. Such a proceeding is most unfair to 'bilking at all times ; it is at all times bad policy, but most especially bad in times like these. The King is a popular and justly beloved Monarch ; but we endeavour to make his people watch, maliciously watch him, and draw odious and unjust comparisons. It is our fault, not theirs : it is unjust and impolitic to the cause of limited Monarchy, and the blindness and bleeders of Statesmen are loading it with sins that do not befong to it. Another word as to my disappointment, and the disappointment of the country, regarding the surrenders and savings by the Crown. First as to the last—the savings. It may be my error, hut it seems to one that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made out the savings to be greater th In they really are. When lie talks of 130,000/. or 140,0001. let me ask him whether be deducts the expenses of his Royal Highness the Duke of Clarence ? Of course we there must save 31,0001. a year, for he cannot be King and Duke of Clarence at the same time. We have j ust as good right b deduct the allowances of the Dukes o f Kent and York, but whether theyhave been deducted I know not. Do not let the Right Hon. Gentleman or any body else at tempt to mislead the people: it may succeed for 48 hours, but no longer. Then as to the hereditiry revenues of the Crown, I did hope, and I expressed my gratitude, founded upon that hope, that the Duchy of Lancaster would he included in the cession by his Majesty. I now find that it is not included. The King's Speech turns out to have been constructed on a plan much the reverse on which other speeches have usually been made; they were intended to be understood, but the object here seems to have been to render it unintelligible. It talks of foreign interference, and yet we have every day since been told that it means no such thing.--( Hear, hear.) Another part of it led me to think that the hereditary revenues of the Duchy of Laucaeter were to be relinquished. This sense seemed (repressed in the largest and most comprehensive terms that could be employed, and it forme my excuse for having formed unfounded expectations; " I place (said the King, or he was made to say) without reserve at your disposal my interest in the hereditary revenues, and in those funds which may be derived from any droits of the Crown or Admiralty, from the West India Duties, or for any ca sual revenues either in my Foreign Possessions or in the United Kingdom." That is to say, " I surrender all my revenues, casual or otherwise, at home or abroad ;" and the expression was no wide and sweeping that I had no doubt that the revenues of the Duchy:of Lancaster, aye, and of Cornwall too, were included. No doubt I shall he told by the Attorney-General, who was Attorney-General li for the Duchy of Lancaster, and who is full of that jea lousy natural to a single Attorney-General, Touch more to a double one—that the revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster are not the hereditary revenues of the Crown.—(Some Member cried, bear, hear.) That cheer comes from a lawyer, I am sure.—(Laughter.) The Hon. Member rose in his place.) The Hon. Gentleman, I see, is a civilian ; but his distinction shows that he would have been an orna ment to the profession.—(Hear, and laughter.) He means to say, that his Majesty dots sot receive the revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster as King, but as Duke; and that, from ignorance or inadvertence, I have put a wrong con struction on the words, " I place without reserve, at your disposal, my interest in the heretlitaty revenues" of the Crown. But let us recollect that the King is Duke both of Lancaster and of Cornavall ; and thus an igno rant man—not the Duke of Wellington—might be misled by the expression I have quoted. If the framer of the Speech really wished the people to understand him, be has versus(' a very strange ceurso ; rind I would advise him, in the interval of his puldic duties, to disport him self with a few gratmnstiral exercises. The fist page of the first grammar he could take up would inform him, that " the u e of speech is, to be understood by those Who hear you." (Cheers and laughter.)—lf I had meant to include the revenues of the duchy of Lancaster, I should have used the very terms which it seems the author of this grammatical contradiction employed with the inten tion of excluding it ; to give up the hereditary revenues of the Crown from whatever source derived ; and is it not the Duke of Lancaster that speaks as well as the King ? His Majesty does not go down to Lancaster or Preston to make one speech as the Duke of Lancaster, and return to London to make another speech as King of Englund. The diseinction is a mere quibble, and if not made by a lawyer, give me leave to say it is worthy the ingenuity of the most astute special pleader. The abandonment by the King, in h i e s peec h, waren a bandonment of the whole without reserve or exception. After what has pastier) to-night, I d o not say it was i n tended ; it is a blunder fn the King's Speech—a blunder by the Minister—a blunder arising out of sheer stupidity anti utter ignorance of the meaning of language; there seems to have existed a total indifference whether the Royal Address was or was not understood, and whether it did or did not express the intention of the high Personage by whom it was delivered. _(Hear, hear.) Giving satisfaction to the people Was out of the question, ;and perhaps from the time of Charles 11. or James 11. to the pre s ent hour there never was a S peech from the Throne which produced in the country such a uniform and ..trong feeling of indignation. If me county Member dif. ( ers from me. he has only to rise and assert that his con stituents are well satisfied ; awl, no doubt next Monday or Tuesday, he luny again rise, and again assert that his constituents are also satisfied with the diminution of the Civil List, and with the vast improvement in the simplifi cation of the accounts.—(Cheers.)—Give me I Ave to add that this question is of infinite importance to the stability the monarehy*to the character of the King, tnd to the character of Parliament; and 1, therefore, bail with satisfaction the notice given by my Noble Fri.nd (Lord AL thorp), er Ky the Honourable Baronet, the Member for Queen's County (Sir H. Parnell), to take the sense of the House on the moderate, rational, and judicious course of referring this subject to the investigation of a Set .et Com mittee —(Mach cheering.) Sir It. PEEL next rose to address the Committee. As he was comment:bag, Mr. Brougham appeared about to leave his seat, and the Right Hon. Baronet observed, that it was unusual fur an Nun. Member, who charged the members of the Government with gross stupidity and ignorance—it was unusual, to say the least, fir an Hon. Member who did so to leave his place• when an answer was about to be made to the charge.—(Hear, hear.)__ However, he should not call upon the Hon. and Learned Member to remain merely for the purpose of bearing a reply to the charge, but, as he in his turn was about to charge the Hon. and Learned Member with gross igno rance, he did entreat the Hon. Gentleman to remain, in order that he might not Make such a charge in the lime and Learned Member's absence.(licar.)—The lion. and Learned Gentleman said Ministers were chargeable with gross ignorance,—with an absolute neglect of com mon grammatical construction, almost with an intention to mislead in the terms put into his' Majesty's mouth, because the King had said that he resigned his intermit in his hereditary and casual revenues; thus, according to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, earning a hope that the revenue of the Duchy of Lsneaster would be relinquished, and sggravating the feeling of disappointment all over the country by a tardy expl ination to the contrary. The Host. and Learned Gentleman sib!, that if it was intended to reserve the revenue of the Duchy of Lancaster, with out exciting false hopes of a contrary proceeding, his Ma jesty ought to have said, " I, as King, telinquish icy in terest in my hereditary and casual revenues ;" and further, that there ought to have been an explanation to the effect that his Majesty did not mean to relinquish his intermit in the revenues r r the Duchy of Lancaster. What had been done ? what were the terms employed by ;former sove reigns in making a similar relinquishment to the present on their coining to the throne? George IV. bad relin quished his iateiest in the hereditary revenues of the Crown in like manner, but he did not give up his interest in the revenue of the duchy of Lancaster. His late Majesty ex pressly referred to his hereditary revenues nev.rthelese. What said the speech delivered by him on Lis accession? " The first object to which your attention will he diverted is the provision to be made for the support of the civil government and of the honour and digaity of the Crown. I leave entirely at your disposal my interest in the heredi tary revenues." And yet, in making this speech, his late Majesty's interest in the duchy of Lancaster was not relin quished. Then it appeared it was not gross ignorance of forms in Ministers to put a speech like the present in his Majesty's mouth, et the Name time retaining for the Crown the duchy of Lancaster, for a similar proceeding took place at the accession of the late King, and wag uncensored. Tke ignorance of the proper proceeding in such a case was not its the conduct of Ministers, but in the comment and inferences of the Hen. and Learned Gentlentau.—(Hear, hear.)—George 111. resigned his hereditary revenues in like terms, but toill held the Duchy of Lancaster. Thus it appeared that his Majesty's Speech was in exact conformity with that delivered by his two immediate predecessors in this respect, where the same course had been pursued in reference to the Duchy of Lancaster. Therefore lie con tended that Ministers were not justly chargeable with goo; ignorance for using the same language as had been previously adopted in a like case and with like results. So much for hereditary revenue ; but, said tl.e Hon. and Learned Gentleman, the casual revenue is likewise relict- . quished ; now let us see what the casual revenue had to do with the Duchy of Lancaster ; Mr. BROUGHAM—That was not my argument 1 meant that the hereditary revenue and the casual revenue included every thing. Sir R. PEEL—I contend that they do not. It is mat. ter of opinion as between me and the Hon. and Learned . Gentleman, but the true test is to be found in Acts of Parliament—the construction of the term must be taken from acts of the Legislature,—and the let of George IV. says, that " all the surplus of revenues of Gibraltar, attd all other surplus or casual revenues in the United King dom, shall be laid before Parliament on the 25th of March in each year ; but it was never thereby intended that the revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster should be laid before Parliament. Here, then, according to the construction of an Act of Parliament, the Duchy of Lancaster was not included among the casual revenues of the Crown, and it appeared, front the Speeches of former Monarch., that the term " hereditary revenue" did not apply to it.—(Several sentence' of the Right Hon. Baronet's speech were lest at this period, and subsequently, by an irruption of strangers through the door usually reserved fur the entrance of re porters into the gallery.)—lle stould not at present dis cuss the proposition of the Noble Lord opposite, for the appointment of a Committee to investigate the subject of the Civil List. This was not the °caption for doing so. Howeverfihe might observe in pasesxinag, examine e a a t ec t , h m e n N ts o , b o le r Lntd had not said whether the proposal Committ ee was to be one merely vested with authority to m whether it was to be armed with the more extensive power to send for persons, papers, and records. Yet the dis tinction, notwithstanding it bad been omitted by the Noble Lord, was a material one, and the whole speech of the Hon. Member for Middlesex showed that he for one would not be satisfied unless the Committee had full power to enter largely dud expeditiou s ly into every point; and this could not be effected without authority to send for papers and examine persons. At no period had a Cotnmittee been appointed with such ex tensive powers under similar circumstances; but he should reserve till a future opportunity a statement of the grounds of his opposition and objections to the appointment of such a Committee. Suffice it to say, it would be neces sary to enter into details of the amount of every hill and item of expenditure for the last ten years, in order to be enabled to compare the expence of the present with pt.- ceding periods. But if the House should think it neces sary to have a discussion, not only of the amount of the whole charge of the Civil List, but of the policy of each particular expenditure, he was of opinion it would he pursuing a course not well calculated to uphold the wel fare and dignity of the monarchy.—(Hear.)—The Right Hon. Baronet proceeded to observe that there was no in stance of the appointment of a Committee under circume stance, anti with objects such as the present—no instance (as well as the confusion in the gallery at the moment permitted us to understand), unless where a debt having been inclined Parliament was called upon to interfere. Accounts being laid before the House, and a full rapine. tient given of every item and charge, Parliament would be as competent to form an opinion upon every point con nected with the Civil List, as it would be if a Committee were appointed, limit d, like forma Committees, to an examination of accounts.—(Heir.)—He thought that , Ministers would hove been' fairly chargeable with an at tempt to throw the. responsibility of the Civil List upon the House, if they had proceeded differently, and load not adopted their present course. In laying the estimates of the 'Civil List before Parliament, be trusted that the Houle would think that his Majeety's Government bad pursued a proper line of conduct...-(Hear.) -.With re ference to another point, he could not ere how the tic counts could have been simplified by transferring the charge for diplomatic expenditure to the consolidated fund, or by providing for it by a special vote. Any man who looked into the subject would see that ti.e omission of that charge in the Civil List would not teed to simplify the accounts. Then, said the Hon. anti Learned Gentle man, "it is not fair to the monarchy nor to the sovereign to introduce into the Civil Liet items of expenditure not directly attaching to the, Crown, but essentially belonging to the public serviee—and you will uphold the throne, and produce general satisfaction, it those charges neces sary to maintain the personal dignity of the Sovereign be separated front every other branch of expenditure with which they are at present mixed up.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition side of the House.)—He (Sir Robert Peel) thought that upon that point two opinions might very well be entertained. The present was the arrange ment which had been long adopted; it had received the assent of Mr. Fox, and wits approved of by Stateamen deeply interested in the maintenance of the dignity of the Crown, as well as in upholding popular rights..--(lleac, hear.)—lt was never Mitre suggested that any necessity existed to equate the Civil List according to the distinct heads of expenditure. But it was now said, there may be souse great popular mieunderetandiug on the subject"--- it was impossible fin. the House to &mike any arrangement which it would nut be ;resale for artful and inert to misrepresent. Leuk at the handbills at present circulated, in one of which it was stated that the Marquis of Bute was a pensioner upon the publ:e purse to the amount of 60,009/. a-year, although the Noble Lord did not receive a farthing of the public tueiney. Nevertheleet, it had been sr repre,.ented to the people, and the item re'. "'erred to was pitted at the head of others, which were, no doubt, equaly unfounded, mid tic (Sir R. Peel) knew the , great dissatisfaction had he. Is ' , reduced by that and similar statemen's, which were industriously circulated among the lower el asses. But he again asked what arrangement could be made by Parliament to ptevent artful men from making, and ignorant and simple men from being gulled and misled by, such unfounded representatione ? *What use multi there be in taking the 400,000/. or 500,0004 which Parliament was wilting to grant ti the Crown, and hold ing up to the palic view as the sum specifically and ex chtsis ely granted for the use of royalty ? This, to say the very least of it, was a doubtful queetieei and it certainly append to hint inexpedient to set upon the suggestion of the Hon. and tetanned Member in this respect. As far as public economy was concerned, it was On matter whether the Civil List were divided as proposed, or treffeied to re main as it had hitherto stood.—(" !s e , no," from the Opposition.)—He repeated, the matter maths no difference with regard to economy. But I e objected to a sum of 400,000/. being set apart as if devoted to the spells! com• fort and convenience of his Majesty, when it wee no such thing, the expenditure being for the public interest, not for the personal comfort of the King, but with a view to enable him, as the chief office of the State, to repreeetrt the monarchy with credit, to maintain n tneotning side n dour, connected not with his own personal comfort (which must be often tact Meet, to the public crinvotiletice), but with the dignity and welfare of the State.---(Hear, heer.) —ln this view of the cave, the Lord Chamberlain and Lord High Steward were not officers appointed for the person tl comfort or convenience of the men irch but to constitute a connecting link between the King and the Aristocracy ; and the saute might be peel, generally, of the offices and expenditure of the Household. Appertain, ing to the State, it. Was fit that the Severeign should he upheld in becoming dignity as the first officer of the state, in order that he might be enahlid properly to main tain those intereste which were inseparably connected with the preservation of the monarchy. Ile doubled whether it would he expedient to separate and distinguish .the Civil List in such a way as to hold out to the uninformed that a particular given Rom was the exact amount which we paid for a monarchy. After ell, this was principally a question of feeling and supposed expediency, mid he did n it think the present the best time to adopt the proposed alteration. As every man of common intedigence was at present aware that the Civil List embraced a vatiety of charges for as various purposes, it would convey no new information to such persons swig the change made, it would dispel no delusion, nor afford any satisfaction to them. Upon others the effect might be decidedly bad, misrepresented as the facts would doubtless he by parties who were at all times but too ready to avail themselves of every opportunity to oppose the cause of order and good government. On the whole, he thought he could perceive the p osibility of great inconvenience from the change, and was of opinion that any advantage to be derived from it would nut counterbalance the evil to be apprehended in the event of its adoption. These were important cmoi iteration's. However, he should not enter further into the subject at preeent, but would reserve himself for future discussions. If any gentleman proposed to appoint a com mittee upon the aulijsct as before, or insisted upon a wore extensive and searching inquiry into the Civil List, with a view to sever from it every item of expenditure not directly connected with the personal service of the Crown, he should be prepared to meet so important a question as it ought to be met : hitt, till then, i.e preferred declining to enter further into the discussion. Mr. BROUGHAM returned his beet thanks to the Right Hun. Baronet for having prevented him from leaving the House before hearing the charge of gross ignorance brought against him by the Right Hon. Gentleman. That lie might be often, and pre h fps justly, charged with gross ignorance, was only saying that he was sutject to she common lot of humanity—of other lion. Members. even of his Majesty's Ministers themselves—(Laughter)— but that the Right Hon. Baronet had really kept him in his seat to hear a charge of gross ignorance preferred against himself, he doubted whether the House would (after the speech of use Right Hen. Secretary) very readily be lieve: although that the Right Hon. Baronet had kept him to hear a gross misrepresentation of what he bad said was perfectly true, and therefore, and in that sense, he wireless ignorant than he hail been before Le heard the Right Hon. Genth outer speech, for he did not believe that any one could hive so mis-stuted the words and argument of anoth r, ae the Right Hon. . Baronet had done by him. It was most true he had charged the framers of the King's speech with ignorance or neglect of common grammafcal con struction, in putting into his Majesty's mouth worth ex pressive of one sentiment, at a time when another was intender/ ; but he did not say (although the Right Hun. Baronet so stated him to have said), " did ever any body hear of any former King's speech so framed, when the re venue of the Duchy of Lancaster was to lie reserved ?" If any gentleman bud heard him even aquae to any former King's perch, he was willing to frVII , etes the argument at once. He never did. It WAS nit rnebt, then, for the Right Hon. Baronet to quote him as if he bad said that the S present _ __ewe.* WO not only incorrect in point of expecte- *ion, but unwarranted by the termite of any former Speech. Yet the Right Hon. Gentleman did so, and im mediately produeed two King's Speeches, to show that the sense Mende: had been committed before.—(Hear, and laughter.)—Now, he was not so deeply read in King's Speeches as the Right Hon. Baronet ; still he must main- t,in, as he did before, that the terms, " I place without reserve, at your disposal, my interest in the hereditary and casual revenue. of the Crown,". including according to the ordinary meaning and construction of words, the re vermeil of the Duchy of Lancaster. But the Right Hon. Secretary quoted a Speech of George IV., in which it was sail (although the Duchy of Lancaster was, in fact, reserved), " I leave entirely at your disposal my interest in the hereditary revenues ;" but the expression "en tirely" was not so strong as the words " without reserve ;" this, in passing. Ile would now stete to the Ginimittee what it wee thut had misled him, a lawyer, as it had doubt less misled others who were not lawyers, but I iymen ; it consisted simply in this—the introduction of the two little words 44 without reserve." The late King, although he placed must of the revenues of tire Crown at the disposal of Parliament, reserved the Duchy of Lancaster, but here, according to the Speech, there was to be " sin reserve ;" it was therefore not unuatural for him and other Members of the Hourte, and persons out of doors, to think that his present Majesty had placed his revenues more extensively at the disposal of Parliament than did him predecessors. This was exactly what he had said, and what the Right lion. Gentleman had taken such pains to show was the result of his great ignorance on the subject, for former Speeches front the Throne hail contained similar de clarations to that which it a ppeared he had so greatly misunderstood. But how, be would ask, was the Speech received on the first night of the Session ? Was it receive! as former Speeches had been ? Was it not, on the contrary, hailed with delight as an earnest of the disposition °Phis Majesty to set the example of the strictest economy ? Was not lie (Mr. Brougham) one of else first to express his cordial gratitude for this most gra cious communioation of his entire and unreserved amen der of his hereditary revenues ? Had such a surrender ever been made by the late King? Whatever might have been his politic virtues, and no doubt they were many, he would nut no dwell on them, as he did not wish to nay any thing of past Sovereigns t the reign of the late King was distinguished by many glorious events—it was itself glorious; but whatever one might al of it, and of the manta of the late Monarch, there were few who could im pute much to him sin the score of economy.—(Bear, liver.)—But had any one, he would ask, on the first night expreiored uuy opinion that such unreserved surrender had been made before? Hal any Hon. Member, got up and said to him when expressing hie gratitude on the occasion, chit Ise WAS too theekfid—thet he was inclined to be too grateful for small mercies ?—(Hear. hear. )—On the occa sion in question be had particularly pointed to !nil lion, and Learned Friend, who was once the Attorney-General for the Duchy ef Lancaster, and was now King's Attor- TmneliGektieunie,anritual.hlpicirill iltiswl4.4eannotnwedeoF,riiteennrdl contended b r e etr l t lid th f e al g ie re n a ? t Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney.; General, who had not spoken, there were dues Ministers Iruig:unvildievt:htetyhr7viyetLouLaynneaidotemtciti:aollsitoneistateCr ooltiainfa,niengtdcriilloet_ltucloittr,yhrino:afulfilyienhiefanEwudttx:cr:aelettedielimig:upam4e4nrana,tinoyitnohloier cepted from the unreserved surrender of the hereditary his tono do h iobe ready with Your expression of grutitutles—do not notim be too thankftd for smell mercies; gratitude it a great virtue, but it should be reserved for occasions when there was something for which to b e grateful."---( Hear, hear, and laughter) _-No, not a word of this. There sat the several lion. Membera to whom he had alluded, and not one of them had ever ventured to let a word of the kind out 1 of the corner of his month.—(Hear, and a leugh.)— WaS be not justified, Om, in thinking that he was borreet, and in saying that the Right Hon. Gentleman had come down that evening to dispel the just expectations which the country had conceived of this Speech? ' would repeat, then, that there ought to be a Committee of Inquiry into this aubject—not an examination of servants 1 or scullion', but an inquiry into the necessity of many parts of this expenditure, In this, ho believed, he only liarticipated in the sentiments of the Noble Lord (Althore), e n d dos Right Hou Baronet the Member for Queen's County ; but that some inquiry should be trade he thought Wa . 4601 1 10 y eatential. As to the 'lleveption ef the hand, 'till respecting Lerd Bute, it was width% to this--end, in the way in which the Right Hen. Gentlemen had alluded, kilted hie cage but little ; for el ppowe. upon inquiry,-it should turn out that - tin.. Noble Lord dill not receive, - as pensions or persons! emoluments, the swiss that were there set thrall to his name, lint that they were paid to him in his cepaeity as Liter! Lieutenant of the county of Glamor gan would not that shine at once that the charge, as against the Noble Lord, was , Wholly unfounded? Anti would it net also Anne the necessity of some uheration of die system? He wax aware that a similar mode of es, ranging the Civil •List. in come parts, had received the ernction of many eminent men, but he was not. aware that h had got that of Mr. Fox. This Was somewhat new to Mei, ttd,he was the more surprised at this, consi dering that Mr. Vox Ve:ot lint 12. yews, old at the settlement - of the Civil List, in the 'vigil ef Oeorge 111. ; anA, valu able toi Were the. opinions of that emint'nf man at all times, he meld not think that he was much of a 'rel. irician at that age.--(e 6 Ow," and a laugh.) Still less entail he have supposed that Mr. Pot bad given his opinion on the settlement of the Civil List at the ;tree eion of George IV., is the country wae unfortunately deprived.' tef his services twelve years before that time. The Right lion. Peeretery must lunre confounded the opinion given by Mr. Vox It some other peritid. Under all the eireuttnitancee of the rase,. he thought the ramiel bf an.inquity met unfair to the country, and on some future oettaeltot he should take the setse of the House en that question. Sir R. O,Elr, is--The lion.- Menther bad said that he hssd placed him on his Meal.. t he had done no such thing ; he was not in the habit of giving rttterence to any expres sions which. could wound the feelings Of :sty, lion. Alenie her, or resider it neceseaty for hint to put linnet..if on his defence ; but it was the Hem. and Learned Gentlemen who Ind put him en his defence. The lion, end Learned Member had chareed the (Internment with great igno. ranee on tkis occasion. Now be *Uuhl show that in the charge of ignorance, he (Sir IL Piet) was Its the tight, and the !Jon. and Learned Member was wroittf. He would contend for what he was serpriseil to hear the Hon. and Learned Member deny,—that the "hereditary revenue" of the Crown had a distinct meaning well recog niecd its law, anti that the use of the tenth " without re serve " made no difference from " my entire revenue," for neither could it be we'd to mean that revenue which fro well known to be excepted from that revenue. But the Speech from the Threne could not weal have been mil. taken as to the matter in diecusehm, for after stating, " Owe, without reserve, at - your disposal, my interest in the hereditary revenues, it specified the stature of same things not gent-rally included under that head, adding, the wneds, "and in those funds which may be derived from any bruits of the Crown or Admiralty, from the West India .1116(.14, or from any casual revenues either in my foreign possessions or in the United Kingilem." if, then, it was the Intention of his Majesty to phtce at the disposal of Parlia ment the other revenues mentioned by the lion. and Learned Member, they would have been specified as well as those he had just read. Ott this point, then, it was the lion. and Learned Member who was wrong, and not he. The lion. end Learned Gentleman was not more comet with respect to Mr. Fox, for it was cei taro that that statesman did express his approbation of that part of Mr. Butler Bitl which made those divisions and (lessee of the Civil List row objected to ; and cutely that was au opportunity for discussing the question whether it ought to include those claws or not. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman stated that on the first night of t' a session he had dis tinctly allotted to the impression which the words of the Speech bail produced on his mind as to the inulueion of the duchies of Lancaster and Cornwall ; but the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ought to bear in mind that on the second tight a question was put by an Hon. Member on the opposite side, whether the revenues of those eluehies were intended to be included amongst those which were to be platted at the.dieposal of Parliament, and it was dis tinctly answered that they were n0t.......(11ear.) Mr. BROUGHAM—eThis is the first time I heard of that. Sir It. PEEL—If the lion. and Learned Gentteam, who spoke sometimes of non-attendance in the house by otla re had been in his place at the time he would have heard it. lie (Sir R. Pcel), though he had many other duties to occupy him, was in his place, but the lion. and Learned Gentleman having busine,s to attend to elsewhere, was absent. The question was put on the second night by the lion, Member (for Colchester, we believe) who sometimes took an active part on the question of the Crown . revenues. . Mr. BROUGHAM—At all events it does not show ► that I was wrone with respect to the first night. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, he did not rise to prolong this disemeion, hut merely to say a few words . as to the reason why he had not noticed what fell from his ' Hon. and Learned Friend on the first night of the &mion. There were many things which fell from his Hun. Friend ; which he let pass unnotioed,, as ha Walk were willing to forget than to notice. Mr. BROUGHAM (across the table)—lt is much easier to forget than to answer sometimes. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL--His Hon. end Learned Friend was fond of those little irregularities of in terruption, which seemed part of his hereditary rights; but he was in the habit of meeting them elsewhere, and forgiving them; he also forgave them here. The reason why lie had not made any comment on what fell from his Learned Friend on the night in question was, that be did not suppose he could have fallen into any such mistake. There Wald, be thought, but one opinion among lawyers on the question that Lancaster and Cornwall were never meant to be included in the surrender of the hereditary revenues of the Crowu, whether that surrender wee con veyed in the words " entire," or without reserve." This hal been so understood from the time of Charles IL, and he thought there was nothing more plain. With respect to casual revenue, he thought there could not be a question that it was included in the term " hereditary revenue," and therefore the revenue of that description was expressly mentioned. Surely his lion. and Learned Friend would not say that these were all covered by the words "without reserve." Suppose a man left all his estate in Durham, " without reserve," would his Learned Friend say that that would convey an estate in Cumberland? The thing was so plain, that he had not thought it necessary to answer it on the first night ; and it would be nnly wasting the time of the House to enter tattler into it at present. Lord J. STUART said, lie was glad to have the oppor tunity—as the name of his near and dear relation, the Marquis of Bute, had been mentioned, and as it was stated iu the band-bill alluded to that he received 62,3001. a year of the public money—of now publicly stating in his place, that on that subject the plecard in question did not con tain a word of nuth.—(Hear.) He could state, that hie noble relation had not, for the last 16 }ears since lie came into the possession of his estate's, received sixpence of the public money.—(Bear.) As the calumny contained hi this hand-hill had been published in most of the News. papi:re, some of them Papers of great respectability and ex tensive circulation, he hoped the Committee would excuse him fur taking that opportunity of giving the most public and unqualified eontrediction.—(Hear. )---He did not know how any person mild give currency to such abominable falsehoods, or haw any one could give them circulation. The calumny had its origin in a little hook, polished moms Years ago, called " A Peep at the Peers," which was full of gross falsehood& Lard PALMERSTON said that the discussion and ail. ference of opinion between his Right Hon. Friend awl the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, on the subject of one pas. sage in the speech, was another proof of the kind of way in which topics were introduced into speeches from the throne, which it would be better to omit, or to insert with less ambiguity. It was Once stated, as a proof . of the great ability of Mr, Pitt, that he could speak a King's speech off hand. He was not disposed to :mach much value to that, as the qualification of a great statesman ; but when he saw eleven gentlemen employ themselves in preparing a Royal speech, and that they did nut succeed in framing it, so as to make it understood without any difficulty, he owned he was inclined to set a much higher value upon Mr. Pitt's talent, in that respect, than he had hitherto done.—( Hear.) Ile Certainly must admit that, whether right or wrong, an impression did exist from the wording of the King's speech, that it meant to Imhof', amongst the revetinee to lie placed at the disposal of Parliament, those of the Duchies of Lan. , caster and Cornwall ; and he must say that it would have been much better if, instead of relying on legal tecliniuX ties for the meaning of the words in the speech, to have so explained the matter as to leave no doubt on the sub• ject, particularly as the words " without revenue" had been used. It was not his intention on the present oece.• *ion to enter into any details with respect to what had fallen from his Right lion. Friend the Chancellor of the FAO*• quer, as a more fit opportunity would occur; hut he could not help exptesaing his regret diet his Right lion. Friend had not adopted more simplified arrangements in the new re gulation iu the Civil List, than those Which hr. hail laid be fore the Committee, and he regretted it the more, as he saw no one advantage that could be gained by the present ar rangement. His Right lion. Friend (Sir R. P.) had said that the change in the present pion could make no difference on the score of economy. Ile differerl from him in this opinion, for lie knew that when arrangements for seating the CIVII List revenue were made at the beginning of et reign, it was not easy or convenient to alter them afterwards. Ile there.. fore thought it unwise to mix up with the expenses of the Civil List items which }utterly .did not belong it, but w hi c h it might liana there to time be found expedient to alter. nut it would be 'Moth to mate the elltostion while they were orbits' op with the Civil List, rebirth wavy ol great objections to disturb a Ivo it was ewe Ms night lion. Friend orb! that them would be an advans rge in rontinuing other charges which had hitherto tweet iireluded in rise Civil List, thorigh net properly belonging to it. lie owned he could not see what that advantage *es. The Civil List ought to be eat down at what it really was, for he saw nothing that could be gained by a con cealment of frets. it was the less necessary in a country wbi e l, did not grudge every liberal expense for the due support of the dignity of the Sovereign, ant! for mmtri. iu every degree to Me personal comfert and con. veniettre. All this the people of England were willing to pity ; there was then no neecterity for swelling out the item to the sum of 960,000/. in order that it might be west to those who might object to tire amount, 11 There is only the half of this sum expended fee the actual expenses of noyaitr." Such un answer would do only for those who did not consider, or eauhl not understand, the sob. !ect. Ile therefore 'should wish to see a ditliirer,t—a more e}mple arrangement, which would put every item under its proper head, and remove all those which did not pro perly belong' to the Civil. List expenditure. The :Noble Lord Althorp) had expreesed his wish that this matter should be referred to the examination of a Committee, and this seemed to be the opinion of other lion. Members There wart, as was said, a Committee in 1816. and its recommendations were made the groundwork of *One qurnt arrangement. lie also cooeurred in tine propriety of a previous inveetigatine. He OW trot mean an inquiry trrto the details of every item which tended to the personal comfort end convenience of their Majesties. Such an in qttirr would he revo'ting to the good feelings of the country, but be would have an inquiry into the general heads cif expenditure, in order to ascertain wh a t a l ou d,' nun l a im ed not be classed under the expense of the Civil List. went!' not go now into detail, but whether a Committee were imprinted or not, the House would, I,e was sure, not grant more than was necessary: but, on the other hand. they would give all that multi conduce to the due mainte nance of the dignity of the Crown, and contribute to the personal comfort and convenience of the Sovereign. Sir H. PARNELL wished now to give notice, that when the further ronsideration of this suiject should be pee into, he would move as art amendment, that a com mittee be appointed to investigate the whole In doling tins lie loped it was noneressary for him to state that he in ter degree wished to deprive the Sovereign deny aim; that could at all contribute to the due maintmanre ut lug Crown and dignity, or to diminish any expenditure that could tend to his personal comfort and convenience. Ile must also say, that he had no wish to throw toy inpedn writ in tire way of a speedy settlement o f th e Ci v il Li st ; bat he thought it was the duty of the House to take rhea first opportunity of reducing the general expenditures ter the lowest possible eede. The question flint the Chairman do report progyeris was then put and carried : and the House having Rotuma), be obtained leave to sit again on Monday. SCOTCH AM) IRISH' PENSIONS. Mr. MIME moved (as wa understood the Men. Mem. her) for an account of the *lnmate chariee in !he way of pensions on the Scotch and Irish Civil Lists. Tha pre sent, be thought, was the most. tivourabla opportunity ftr rush a motion, as the Civil List waa about to he staled for the present reign. Sir P. PEEL objecied to the introduction of midi o motion without the usual notice. After a short conversation Itetlvren Mr. IlituF and IL PEEL, the motion was allowed to stand as a notice ti Monday next. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER mom , the order of the day for the House to resolve itself into a Committee of Supply. Lord A urn OHP wisLed to know whet it war the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to propose in the Committee The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER LAW tipit last Session the House had granted a vote of supply and a vote of credit ; but the Session ended without providing a sufficient ways and means to meet that supply ; so that the supply had exceeded the ways and means by shout 8,200,000/. To make goad this diff,rence, it was traces trtry that the ways and means should be voted ; but in a new Session no ways and means could he voted until a vote of supply had first been agreed to. The sum, there fore, for which he should now move in the Committee would he, for the difference between the voted supply of last Session and the ways and means. . . Mr. fIUME expressed a doubt whether the House might to consent to any supply until it had in at d the whole of the financial arrangements to be proposed. The CHANCELLOR of the . EXCHEQUER said that the proposed vote bad, prop, , tly speaking, nothing to du with those arrangements. It was only to enable the Go vertiment to carry on the public service, by carrying into effect the vote of the House in the last Session. That vote would be useless to Government, unless the ways anti means were also voted, and this could not be don e , ea be had said, in a new Session, until anwher vo t e of eo poy for the amount molted had Neu iNrced to. The Hen. Member could not now fairly object to the vote to which he had agreed hot Session. Mr. HUM E said there was this am.. rence,—that Lot Session he had confidence in the Ministers ; in the pre sent ha had none. He saw them about to pursue a course which he could not approve. Howeter, he would not offer any objection to the Committee, as a new', vote was to be taken. The House then went into a Committ-e, when The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved,. the 4 a hunt not exceeding 3,258021. 150. he granted to his Majesty, to make good the supply voted in the lot Session of the Wu Parliament. The Right Hon. Gent:e4 man said, - that the supply voted lest year amounted to 16,600,0001. ; but ways and means to the same anniunt had not been granted ; and as the Session was shout to elooe, and the Parliament was to meet again men, a vote of credit was taken to (tarry on the public: service. The earn he now moved for was, as he had stated, to make good that amount of supply far which ways and means bed not been provided. The resolution was then agreed to, and the House lw ing reomned, the Repot wax ordered to be received on Monday. TRADE WITH BRITISH POSSESSIONS IN NORTH AMERICA AND THE WEST INDIES. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the order of the day for bring up the'report of the COUI.• mittee on the Acts relating to thie trade. Sir A. GRANT appeared at the Bar with the report. On the question that it be brought up, Mr. W. WHITMORE objected to the scale of duties proposed, which were a renewal of the old syatem of pro• tecting duties, awl which tended only to give a mitelirec.. tion to capital. The proposed arrangement would benefit no party but the West India interest; and that only through an increased price for their sugar at the expense of the public at large. The report was then brought up. On the question that . it be reed, Mr. K. DOIYGLAS begged Hon. Member* who were . in the habit of complaining that boons were conferred on, the West India interest at the expense of the Emile at large, to bear in mind, in the first pima, that the Acts of Parliament which regulated the West India trade did not emanate front that body but from that House ; that the West Indians, as a body, had no share in their enactments, and that in many cases they were not such as they could approve of. With respect to the proposed schedule eon!. tined in the report then under consideration, he hogged have to declare, en the pert of the Wast India interest, that it would confer on them pa boon . • for they had . Possessed all the advantages which it could bestow up to the passing of Lord Gotletich's Act in llwn Heathen; would see that by the scale in the present report, the duties ou imports entering the West Indian ports were considerably raised,—in some casts thirty anti forty per cent.,--rentlering it necessary that tome counterbalanerog advantage shmdd be given to the planters in the disposal of their product: • Mr. WARBURTON Was opposed to the Right Ho s Gentleman'. proposition altogether. it, in the tint pietist, was highly objectionable, ash Went to impose an additienal tot on sugar that is, on a necessary of life in which the public at large felt an iuterest.—(llcar, hear.) And, in the'next place, it was highly objrotionalife, as contrary to the free trade principles which it bad been the boast of 3littisters to have titled on for some years.. It went to force a trade at a great public loss, in a Colony Which basic no natural aiivautagts for onsteining that trade, Al rea d y was the country taxed a million end a half per annum, to force a timber-trade with Canada I asti r as if that sum were not sufficient, they have now a propoittion to catty that f org i n g system still further. Canada poariesseti no sdvatitagett to warrant this extraordinary addition to the burdens of the people ; on the contrary, u n d er a bona fide 'tee trade system, there wss scarcely a single article of commerce which could not he had better anti cheaper from other countries, from wit4h, under the present niiechievoue protecting system, the British merchant was excluded. Mr. JEPITSON said a few words to the same effect. Mr. lIEBRIES begged leave once for all, in answer to the observatieut of tt.e Hon. Wither ter Ite t tipte rt (M t . Warburton), respecting whit was caned the, tree trade polity of AlinisteN to disclaim, on thcipart ol the•ment; tiers of the passant Government, th tt Adria devotion to the principle's ol free trade is hitch the titoi..Aletot t er grottiest its consider their duty. However uttexcitionable these prin.