The Sun. — London, England, 1833-08-10 00:00:00

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I , tre_ N dttri t. 18 t A. 26 nn, 1:j 2 ;; ... • 96 i en --- ;mlg no. ....... 1 %% n 5 146, ~exnire 7 1 14 5.16 5, ........... 17 3-16 S 5, 880 ZOO ........... ......... .. 17 1.46 , 1.. ....... 147 n ...... .............. `i ...1" ON New 5 par Copt. .... India Stock ... ......... - ' 'lino Bonds 3O 3° pm . South Sea Stock ... Old Annuities — , New Ditto ...... .... ••••-• -- 0 per Cent. Ann. rici Ex. Bills, .t1,000...47 48 47 pin. Ditto 50e...47 48 47 um. ! Ditto Small .... .... .47 48 47 •vo. Ditto Commercial.... 49 'm 1 Ditto Advertised I Bank for Account India for Account — Cons. enr Opening ) 11 - e " --- ----....___,, 1, 0 1 Op F o . it an iian R0n,...11GN FUNDS THIS DAY AT ONE 0 CLOCK L Ito 11° A n dl .... ''''''''''' 07 % Peruvian Bonds tiii, r`e,..cotrat '''''''''' 9N% Portuguese Bonds B9 to 81 4 1 d itto 'onds ''''''''''''' •• 9 6'6 i Ditto Account 8' L 4 8 % 24 i /I Pm. 41, " -t° Ace°U nt ' '''''' :.,•• 7 N 1 Reg. Scrip tlit:', l t Yres P,.•' ' 2 '4 ' Ditto Acc 24 2;1 pm. ti ia . ll ccouiZ'us... '''''' 206 Prussian Bonds — t o bit l3(l, . ." ''''''' •••• Ditto Bonds, 1822 lOl4 lurabiink,ouri: ............... 28 Russian Bonds, 1822 Ditt o A n 110 01 A ............. 2 73 4 Ditto Account — Ditto 11,,count ............... 22 New Loan 1064 ~ Ilitto A ' 414 ,182: 4 ""••••••• Spanish Bonds, 1821 -.22 4 4; '4 Ak sh ._•-•cc,,,,0t ......... 25 1 ,4 j Ditto Account ...... -.23% 3, 4 41 Ditt o " T ' ll 4 . ............... ,2 5 1 4 I Ditto Bonds,"sBlt. 2 0% NklAee, 1i• . ..............74v, 1 I)itto Account 20'.', 4,i ( Ditto rds., .............. 1444 . French Rentes, sp. c. —f —c. 1111 N i t'''lo. 4' . i ........... 3 4 I ----- Exchange —f C. x.a t ,i 4l,l lllt ............ 39 f—3 per cent. —f —c. bitt o A e rlds,s,:::: ...... .. —., Exchange —f —c. , Di tto, n ecou nt .. rvl cent .22t6 L Dutch, 24 p• c kbitto A Per cent ......•••••• 33 t Ditto Account 51!..1 ~..._,,„t i, ,, , ,,,,. ........... 424 ! Ditto, sp. 97% ~, ....• .............. —1 Ditto Account 97% 'Alex, • r , ............. 924 Prznch Scrip lt., pm. Atl i a.. -I ' BRAERS THIS DAY AT ONE o'cLoc, • 115 La ' Nt eX NI Paid. Per Share. t ' , cis m i * In. c o 16 razih aln • (Iss. at Si. pm.l XlOO 4 14 44 1410 i g C4 ThParn Xl5O 145 tl 'ail It, n g Cornk m 11.. f, ttol ia ,.P. Mtn. c o . 3 ' £s It o , gon d ] •Ow at s[. pm.) £9O 64 % 9514 r ,r1itt,, , ,,• Joho*„*•••••••••.. 'etk ti'''orati ''''el Rey lir rii- • I % 4 11 41 -41 Min n ' • 0 „,lon NI. I Company 5 1% 1471 l thaZ e li, • il g C0, £50 % 19% 21 iticx•l ,:rlg c ompai ( 15 g. at 5!. pm.) 51% 44111.7" lint* CP ' l : l lcm ny - 12 yi 13 iJei'4ll.lll(,..Pe 6, anclailon Fell '" , B Co. 4% l i t 14 1ng c o £lO m, tbr ite ~...' : bitt o lei 01,'"nIng Co, ~,~.. kii__New ~_l l,. CO. ass. at 21. Dm.) 40 APtot-47,4111.,'seitititt 16% •,eatr i p lat, ' , ranee Comp lO 11 4 11 ad 40 co`rance Com)? 1 :10 4 , a C nul • .... • 18 Ifi ti e ral x te Dan; .... 26% 1 ,,,. v 0.04 1,.. I, 1,4••. .... • .‘ 14 r rOV : . Vi eatiOn (fl CIII /14.1,1.1cial Bank of England 5 . 4 of Ireland 25 13 56 36 35% 4ck . or IRISH STOCKS, DUBLIN, AUG. 7. mq0i5.tt0,4,14,31:•,.e.n..t.......... 2124 St. Patrick I ns . ur.(pei Share) ... 119% Royal Irish Ditto I lietl,e Percent, 96% National Ditto 25 'io. 44, . .... k,.. Ik t ...., ........ 964 ratriotic Ditto oIQ t .3 1 4 ~,_" ............ I Hibernian Bank ' 2 !ii 1 I y ' r ent 59 % Provi l licial Ditto Zit'it,: Sto c k .. •••• Irish Mine — Ilkil a t i,eb: l , B tock .. "••... 3 2 9 1.:", f i t m oy p a c • lMine — 'fliVe re ent . ..." .. 790 L Minin n g a Co. of Ireland e . 'eb. 4 1:: .... --l i Commercial Buildings .NGE YESTERDAY. l iq 4te kl 4t ar a .. " °F lICHA 344 4,sar, rE 12 7 ............. M.S 13 14 13. 14 Rati.; ................. U 2sight 1 7 1 5 1 26 5 / I f te t N3 Qn ....... I'4,% u e it r,0)?:: 3 1i: 4 10 .53 9 14 1 tive fl. 2 M . 10 3 N,N..""• do cttb:.,. 37 349 (I, l ll t vl, :36 W 474 Leghorn 47li . Genoa 5 90 Milan 3l Venice 47 Naples Palermo per oz. 1 l 914 Lisbon ' Oporto 49 Rio .laneiro Bahia 3l Buenos Ayres Dublin, 21 days' sight l% Cork 1 BULLION, PER OZ. _ - -- Portugal Gold, coin 0 . 0 0 Foreign Gold, in bars 3 17 9 New Doubloons 0 0 0 New Dollars Silverhars, standard 0 0 0 4 WATER AT LONDON BRIDGI TO-MORROW. minutes after 9. I Evemng...2l minutes after 10 1 1 1/6't INDIA HOUSE, AUG. 10 1933. ii t:4 K ,COURT of DIRECTORS of the 1; 0 " ,91 -A - NI T ED . COMPANY of MERCHANTS of "re 0 trading to the East Indies, do hereby give 0 ,.: 11 1;t c , 'IIAAVIIECIAL GENERAL COURT of the said tt , r et, Y I „wili be held at their House in Leadenhall. 15 1 , :` ti l t , sb AY next, the 13th instant, at Eleven ktir eth" t he Co 14 '"%ia, for tLe purpose of determining , Le e 61 the : 1 . 1 , Pan Y will consent to place their Com 'hrieritb,•yanee under the provisions contained 11 1 . s em _ ore the House of Lords ` an effecting otter go; l er t : with ths East India Compy, and for 4 14 hirth er "lent of his Majesty's Indian Territories." for 1 ,1 44 Sow PaPera respecting the negotiation with the pi 'elive r 4rnended, are printing , and will be ready clu ck. Y st this House on MoNDAY NEXT, at Two PETER MISER Secretwv._ e un, SA LDON, , ' lii r thAY EVE O N NING, AUGUST 10, 1833. file -_________...._— of he House of u Vlole of the evening sitting t . ctlwattlranns Ye s terday was occupied with dis- I- e lle uPon different amendments to the Bank b. iN art il - i tl/i ll• The Committee sat upon this su Ili eti t- ' nearly three o'clock in the morning, and . bet ~i°urried till to-day at twelve. The nu t m be tllit4bo4 i s got through was five, and io tither left is nine, which, as the principal clauses .s t he 4 ': L ' il t of importance are disposed It will be l teeti6ut will be got through to-day. , t hat' ulli stn reference to our report of the t debate, 4 y a„::atge part of the amendments we ester tith il r - F e ti were brought forward and negatived Y It it e. wlihout a division or by large majorities. Ke i th retlla 'kahle that out of the five divisions .ed i „took place, four of them hardly varied Iloitaln)bers. The first, on the question 1 ° 4" ° , 41 g into Committee at all, showed nn ll9 Nt 2 1 ' In the second, on the question th, - "'n the Bank monopoly extendin t it should extend against tWa l .""" r nond London, t he ItiY-4e, the numbers were 113 iextending s i only xt htya -t 1 4 a 'lort e , .d ; n the question t for sl.iorten g the Peru) ° 114,, dti Ntnn of t h e Charter to five Years, the litegl,t'lieta were against it 122, for it 47 ; on the , 44 .' 41 t hat the legal tender be limited to notes ha ni - • in-tead of above Si., the larger were 110 to 50 against the e tati c . ! a allY, on the question that the clause s 7 eart of the Bill, the numbers were n f fi o . deli' a gainst it 48. Fatigue, and the eo te 4 , e . that their party would win, probably_ Mini -4e titeriltnled the departure of many of the Min o l, Plit4:l Members before the last division took 1111 %te r ; but hovv miserably small qtl l . °' Reformers to oppose the nai' e ' Like Sir 1i00k,1,8 tlinnopoly upon the country for ten years . imposition h a they enjoy the we suppose, T he left tc "ln to enßj sweets of the countr i y i: ect eed lnte re i sts of the country oidil were co in r rter:!i of t ° the an( i they have betaken themselves, some lh e tipi3O continent, others to the moors. the Bill are either men who, hay -144° itleas of their own upon the subject, of tili Ministers to save themselves the trouble 4 ttl ea nki "g, or who look forward to the plan as 1 , 0 1 / 4 ) and rubbing the Pric e , 4 °I depreciating the currency, raising - Port a One public creditor. Ar, Tli nt communication was made by Lord toi th , ottl", with reference to a question raised li,4kWeeks back, viz., the present power of the qepti4it° Prevent the establishment of banks of ti letro t with more than six partners in the pi n ' Ni s. His Lordship stated it was the Co la 'on of the law officers he had consulted, that ~i b r h ow 1. existed to prevent the establishment all " of deposit within sixty-five miles of London ; but that to remove all doubt which might exist upon the subject, he should intro duce a clause which would clearly leave the power of establishing banks of depositin London with more than six partners, open to all the world. This is an important point gained for the inhabitants of the metropolis, and, indirectly, to the country bankers and country people, who are obliged to make use of London bankers as agents. En answer to a question from the Marquis of C' ANRICARDE, the LORD CHANCELLOR ob served last night in the House of Lords that he should endeavour next Session to provide a remedy for the imperfections of the law respect ing patents. On the motion for the further consideration of the report of the East India Bill, the Earl of ABERDEEN moved that Coun sel be heard at the bar on behalf of the holders of Carnatic stock and other creditors of the Com pany. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE proposed the introduction of a clause for the protection of the Carnatic stock-holders, in consequence of which Lord ABERDEEN withdrew his motion. After a few other alterations, the report was agreed to. The prevalence of easterly winds has prevented any further arrival from Portugal. The Roy alist, however, which is the only mail packet due, cannot bring any news of interest, as her dates are anterior to the capture of Lisbon. The only disposable steamer on the Tagus a few days ago was the George the Fourth, which took out BOURMONT and his staff. It is quite true, as insinuated by a Tory con temporary, that Ministers are endeavouring to bring about an arrangement for the return of Don PEDRO to the Brazils. There have already been several conferences between M. de TAL LEYRAND and Lord PALMERSTON on this subject. The German Papers received by the Hamburg mail contain some fulsome eulogiums on the generosity of the Emperor NICHOLAS, together with deprecatory allusions—of a very lachrymose character—to the late discussion on the affairs of Poland, brought forward by Mr. C. FERGUS.. SON in the House of Commons. By the same Papers we learn, that Count ORLOFF arrived at Odessa on the 16W, and that the Russian troops have actually, at length, quitted the SULTAN'S dominions. Galignani's Messenger mentions that a re port was in circulation that France and England had received a communication from the Cabinet of Madrid (couched in the same terms), by which Spain calls upon those two Powers, who have shown themselves the protectors of Donna MARIA, to give a formal guarantee against the spirit of propagandism, otherwise she will feel herself compelled to interfere in the quarrel between the two Princes. IMPE RIA L PA IiLLIMENI THIS DAY, SATURDAY, AUG. 10. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKER took the chair at 12 o'clock. On the motion of Lord ALTHORP, the House went into committee on the Blnk Chirter Bill, Mr. BERNAL in the Chair. The CHAIRMAN read clause 6th, that bills not having more than five months to z un, should not be subject to the usury laws. Mr. GROTE apprehended that, as the clause then stood, it won d only extend to England. He was of opi nion that if it was good for that country, it should also be extended to Scotland and Ireland. Lord ALTHORP paid a few words that were nearly in audible in the gallery. We understood him to say that there was nothing in the Bill to restrict its provisions to England. . The SOLICITOR-GENERAL apprehended that it was quite clear that the clause applied to the whole of the United Kingdom. When it was intended that any measure should apply only to one part of the empire it was usual to say " to that psrt of the United Kingdom c died," hut in the clause before the House there was no such restriction, and therefore it applied to the whole country. Mr. GROTE said he had been informed that there might be some dispute as to the meaning of the clause in another place. The SOLICITOR GENERAL -aid with the consent of the Chancellor of the Exchequer he would introduce words that would clearly express the meaning of the clau-e, and so s,ve any dispute. Mr. BLAMIRE said he could not see that there was any necessity for at all interfering with the Usury Laws. He was aware that many great and good men had advocated the total abolition of them, but he thought they were more interested fur the wealthy borrower than the poor one. He was of opin on that con‘iderable disadvantage would attend the remor.al even of part of them. The measure might he of service in times of panic, but still th it would not counterbalance the evil of it. Lord ALT HORP said he did not expect to have been called upon to discuss the question of the Usury Laws, nor would he—he would argue simply the question before the H..use. He was of opinion that the present measure would greatly benefit the poorer closes, by adding to tre security of the Bank. Suppose a man com mencing business without a capital, and not at the time able to give the very best security—by giving a trifle more of interest, he might become possessed of a cap tal which in time would enable him to live comfort. ably and accumulate property. The objections to the repeal of the usury laws bad generally been made by the landed interest, but the capital employed in mortgages swat , very different from that which was employed in discounting Bills, therefore they had nothing to complain of ; indeed, he did not think they would have, even though the usury laws were altogether repealed. After a few observations from Mr. CAYLEY, which were inaudible in the gallery, Mr. THICKNESSE -aid he concurred in the observa tions of the Hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Bl *mire). Ey this clause a small tradesman would not be able to get a hill discounted, without paying an exorbitant rate of interest that might be demanded of him. The clause was one of the most important in the Bill, and he considered it would inflict a great injury on a class of persons upon whom, he contended, the prosperity of the country greatly depended. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON supported the clause. He knew some mercantile houses that paid only two per cent. for accommodation, while others paid four per cent. ; that was the natural result of large capital and high credit over small credit and lower credit. He thought it might happen, though very seldom, that a person of small capital would be obliged to pay six or seven per cent. for the accommodation ; but that would be a great convenience, and would be much preferable to a person being reduced to bankruptcy.—(Hear.) He knew that in 1823 more than one hundred tradesmen in the metropolis became nankrupt, although they were solvent, but it was because they could not get their bills discounted, and there were many persons who would have taken their bills if they could have charged 6 or 7 per cent. discount. He knew ' lle instance, which be would relate. A person came to Loudon and wanted 10,0001., but nut being able to sell out iris Stock and convert it into crank-notes until after 3 o'clock to the afternoon of that day, he paid another person a hand -owe sum for the accommodation of the bank notes for the tew hours that intervened ; he thus saved his character end his credit. That was a strong circumstance to show the necessity of the banking and trading interests having sortie such protection as this clause gave them. Mr. THICKNESSE explained that his objection was hat the small tradesman, who now paid his banker but ive per cent. for the accommodation, would hereafter be adiged to pay six, seven, or, perhaps, eight per cent. Mr. M. PHILLIPS was of opinion that it would, ruder some eircurnstancea, be greatly to a person's advan age to pay 7 or 8 per cent. for the advance of money. He should, therefore, support the clause. He could have Wished that the period of thiw ❑sonths were extended, for the clause gave a preference to bills at three months over all longer bills. In some districts, and in some trades, it was customary to draw bills at six months, and all those would be excluded from the operation of this clause. He was satisfied that a change in the system had at length been mole, but he regretted that it had not been mere extensive. Mr. T. ATTWOOD concurred in the opinion of the Hon. Member who spoke last, that the clause should have gone further, and he suggested to the Noble Lord (Al. thorp) to include bills of four months' date.—(Hear, hear.) That would be of great importance to small tradesmen and small manufacturers, and would open the door of accommodation to them which had, until now, been shut. As to whether the discount might be six or seven per cent., that was a point of no moment ; for as far as he knew, a person requiring assistance never inquired what discount he had to pay. Indeed in some instances even 20 per cent. would be cheap under very pressing circumstances. The clause would allow large tradesmen to obtain accommodation on low terms, while it would give protection and accommodation to the smaller classes. Mr. GROTE supported the clause. After a few words from an HoN. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, the clause as amended was agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the Bill. - Clause 7 was then put. - Mr. CAYLEY thought it was fully understood that an irresponsible power was an evil thing. It may be said th ,t the Bank is responsible to its proprietors—but this is not the puhlic. And then it is argued that if the Govern ment had the control of the circulation, that they are only nominally responsi le. This is not true—for though not responsible with their lives, they are with their place., which the public, throueh their representatives, may sup plant. But this power of the Bank of England is wholly independent for 10 or 20 ye tra, and may be exerted alto gether opposite to the interest of the public. It is like decennial or vigintennial Pal liaments. It will not do to say that the Govt rnment have a virtual control—the des tinies and happiness of this country should be left to no haz trds and uncertainties. The Bank has the power to abuse, and last experience has shown that it has been abused. Let us consider what the materials are upon which the Bank of England has to operate. Why, no more nor less, than upnn the whole property of the country—upon the millions of some—or the sixpences of all. The public, in the han ' of the Bank, are as the mouse in the claws of the cat, or the fi,h in a stew-pan. It can be exercised to throw labour out of employment—it can be exercised to bring it into employment, by expanding the currency. By giving better prices and higher profits, it secures really better wages—it alleviates distress, and subdues discontent B 1 a contraction of the annonnt of the circulation, it can undo all this happy state of things, and by a continuance of such a system, it can ripen distress into discontent, dis content into rebelli in. It miy end in an entire revolution, not only of government, but of property. The truth is, the Barak has more power than all the Legislature put to gether, not ostensibly, but in fact. Whatever laws Par liame it may pass, unless the Bank give prosperity, and re pair the soil, good seed cannot take root and flourish. This is a power which the King of this country might in vain struggle to obtain. In whose hands is it placed ? In those of a company of private merchants, who have it in their power to reduce currency, when they want to bring mer chandize cheap, and to increase it when they want to sell it dear—or if they don't do it for themselves, they have connections and friends for whom they may do it. Gl:a:inv.—Have you observed considerable fluctuations at different times in the amount of the circulating medium ? Yes, I have observed there have been considerable fluctuations and considerable effect produced by those fluctuations. GURNEY.—To what did you attribute those fluctuations? Partly to the management of the Bank itself, and partly to causes operating upon them, out of their own control. • DYER.—The Bank of England has by its expansion and con traction of the circulation, induced an expansicn and contrac tion following close upon its footsteps to a ruinous extent. BURT.—Then you mean that commercial transactions are deranged, and the prices disturbed by the issues of the Bank of England? I mean that I consider the most judicious, and best laid schemes, are frequently defeated by what takes place in the issues of the Bank of England. There is more real speculation now in general trade than in 1825. Because the prices being u ertain the speculator naturally forms the best estimate he can with regard to what will take place; what the price of the com modity is at that time he knows, and he forms the best opinion he can as to what the price will be some two or three months hence; and there is a great uncertainty upon that point, in consequence of the fluctuation of paper by the Bank of England. Again, I say, that tl,eir reputation is no sufficient guaran tee against their acting thus. Tiiey have the power, and can do it, and that is sufficient fir us, as legislators, to know. We Live no right to speculate on remote possi bilities of virtue. The predominance of the commo❑ vice of having interest altogether preclude, and makes criminal, our legislating with capricious exception. Was not the brightest and wisest said also to be the meanest of man kind ? and is the confidence reiused to one like this to be granted to the Give, nor or the Bank of England ? Dare they desert the Proprietors? and if they do not, is the public to trust them P And if they do desert the Proprie tors—to whom they have sworn allegiance—how shall they expect confidence from the public, to whom they have not sworn allegiance, and to whom they are in nowise reap maible ? They cannot serve two :masters—and they have shown in ibis bargain which they are most inclined to serve. I do not believe they dream of entrusting this power to private hands in any other country. I bring ft rward this motion, not only because the Direc tors are irresponsible to the public—not because they may abuse their power—but because the system bas been most fluctuating and injurious under their controul ; and I now proceed to (induce instances of it. In 1825, our monied and trading concerns were as much without a ruler, We were as much at valiance, and without a system of Go. vernment, as we had been without all the three branches of the Legisliture. There are times when the monied market requires a dictator—when it requires the strongest and most resolute powers of Government—and just when the vessel requires the most management—we leave it to the mercy of the winds and waves. Accommodation cave relief at last, as Exchequer Bills in 1793 did. He then moved the insertion of the words in line 34 after " for the time being," " who if occasion shall require, shall, in respect of the amount of issue, be at liberty to call for the Legislative advice and interference of Parliament." lie thought the mere virtual control of Lord Althorp would not be enouch. The Bank would have the control of the entire circulation of the country ; and as it could at will influence all fluctu ttions, it was too much to give them an unlimited control such as this clause proposed to vest in them over the entire property of the country. Mr. GROTE thought that the amendment of the Hon. Member ought not to be adopted without special grounds were shown for it. If it invested Government with the power of controlling the issues of tie Bank the responsi bility of the Bank, would pro tont° be null and void. Lord ALTHORP thought the Hon. Member had mistaken the seciiiity which the clause ; gave it would give no additional security, lie admitted, but would merely give into, oration to the Chancellor of the Exchequer. The only question therefore was, whether this would be the best mode of giving security. If it gave the Chancellor of the Exchequer a complete control over the Bank, it might he productive of mischievous consequences. Mr. WARBURTON objected to the amendment, on the ground that it would conceal that information from the public which it was entitled to have. The more information was given to the public the better the BAnk would be kept in order. After some observations from Mr. GROTE, Mr. Alder man THOMPSON, and Mr. SCROPE, the amendment was negatived. Mr. STRUTT then moved an amendment, to the effect of requiring not the average of the quarter's is , ues of the 134hk, but the publication in detail at the end of the quarter, of the weekly accounts rendered to the Govern ment by the Bank. Lord ALTHORP said that there were several modes in which this publication might take place ; and lie must say he thought that chosen by the Hon. Gt ntleman the worst that could have been ciiosen.—(Hear.) The pro position contained in the 13111 was not exactly that of which he individually approved, but it was 0°,4.4 the best by his colleagues, and he had yielded the point to them. He certainly thought there would be great advan tagest in havi ng t h e accounts pu bli s h e d one wee k un der the other—(H ear ) — b ut t h e o b ject i on urge d to t h at p l a n oy he Bank w as a strong one,—that circumstances might occur in one particular week which would give ihe public a very erroneous impress;on of the real state of uffairs. For instance, early in the present session the foreign tichanges were in our favour ; but a great capitalist having occa sion to make remittances abroad, drew out from the Bank a million sterling at once —(Hear.) Had it simply been published a week afterwards that so large a diminution of the treasure of the Bank had taken place in one week, people might have been led to heli ve that the foreign exchanges had turned against us; and thus the greatest ..mbirrassment and confusion would have been occasioned in the commercial affairs of the country. Now the pro• position of the Hon. Gentleman was in a great degree open to the same objection of leaving the public open to °oral an erroneous judgment from the account published. After the payment of the dividends, fur instance, the average would look very different to what it ought to do. By that course the public would be better able to ascertain whether the Bank trai acting On mud prin. ciples. It was for these reasons that he had adopted the mode of publication proposed in the Bill. Mr. STRUTT exnlaiiled. Mr. WARBURTON said, the arguments used against frequent puhlicitv, were such as would be used any Government or - Corporation that was against all pub licity.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") It was said that the weekly publication would give rise to some in convenience—it might do so, but then it ought to be borne in mind that all legislation was a balance of good and evil, and, in his opinion, as the clause then stood, the evil greatly predominated. Bec •use it might give rise to some inconvenience, they were taking away all the control of public opinion, and were going back to the old system of total darkness upon all the proceedings of the Bank. There was another important point that ought to be considered. Country bankers had been found fault with —it had been said that they had neglected their duty, because they had not regulated their issues by the par of exchange. How could they get the information but by these we ekly publications? By the quarterly ones it was impossible for them to regulate their issues as it was said they ought to do. They were by that clause taking away from the knowledge of the banker that information which above all others was necessary for regulating his conduct io regard to issues. To remedy a paltry inconvenience they were taking away that which was of paramount import ance, the constant check of public opinion. Mr. P. SCROPE said, that as this was the most im portant part of the Bill, he trusted he should be allowed to say a few words upon it. Publicity was the only control which the public had over the conduct of the Bank.— (Hear, hear.) The Noble Chancellor of the Exche quer had repeatedly acknowledged that he was placing a vast power in the hands of a body who had an interest in abusing it. A quarterly average was no adequate check upan that body intrusted with such a power. In the course of the quarter the fluctuations might vary from 20 millions to 30 millions, and yet the average might remain the same at the end of the quarter. Could any man say that that was a proper check, or any check at all? There were two objects to be obtained by publication. First, the public had a right to know all the operations of the Bank.—(Hear, hear, bear.) Every mar ket in the country was affected by its operations ; there fore, every one in business should be made acquainted with those operations which regulated the prices in the markets. Twenty-faur gentlemen, merchants of London, were the only persons who were acquainted with the state of the issues of the Bank, and of its general operations— with those operations which regulated every market for three months ; and though those gentlemen were well known to be respectable and honourable men, still he would maintain that it was an unfair advantage, and one which they must use in those private con cerns in which they were daily engaged. For that reason, if for no other, publication ought to be con stant and instantaneous. Secondly, publication would give to the public a moral control over the Bank. That was a right which the public were entitled to, and in order to give them that security, the publication should be full, complete, and immediate. He trusted that the Noble Lord would again come back to the first proposition he made to the Bank, viz. weekly publication. Lord ALTHORP denied that the B ink Directors employed the knowledge which their situation gave them in their own private affairs, and, therefore, in discussing this Bill, he hoped Hun. Members would rtfrain altogether from throwing out insinuations on their conduct. The object of the clause was, to frame the best mode of bring ing the control of public opinion upon the gener4l of the Bank, and - the question was, how that could be best attained, and whether it was by a publication, such as he had proposed, or whether by a more frequent publication. He was of opinion still that, by the clause, as it stood, the public would have a better view of the B ink transactions during the quarter, than by a publication of merely insulat ed parts. It was well known that at the commencement of the quarter the issues of the Bank were considerably larger than at the end of the quarter, and, therefore, if the public were merely to look by comparison at those two periods, it might be imagined that at one time there was a great extension, and at another time a contraction of the Issues. Looking at the whole affairs of the Bank, it would be seen that the variations were not sudden but gradual, and if it should be found that the effect of the Bill produced any sudden check, a remedy would speedily be provided. Mr. WARBURTON suggested that the publica tion, monthly, of the three preceding months, by which there would be twelve averages in the year, would afford a great deal more information, and give greater security to the public. Mr. GROTE said, the Noble Lord had failed to con vince him that iris mode of publication would afford the best security to the public. He was of opinion that there should be a continuous series of the Bank affairs, which should be laid before the public oftener than four times in the year.—(Hear, hear.) If he were disposed to fol low his own views, he should be disposed to have the publication weekly in the Gazette, but despairing of catrying that object, he in•ended to submit, after the pre-ent amendment was disposed of, a proposition to the effect that a weekly series of accounts should be made, coming up to a day three months antecedent to the day of pub lication. If publicity was likely to be the cause of more frequent mistakes than at present, of course it would be better to abandon it altogether ; but he thought they ought to give credit to the public for possessing sufficient common-sense to enable them to draw fair and proper in ferences ; and he was confident that the Bank affairs should be laid before the public from week to week, rather than taking averages, huddled together for a period of three months. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON thought it would be more advantaee.ius to the public that the accounts of the Bank should be published at the end of the quar ter rather than weekly. Publication would be an evil, unless every person were put in possession of every circumstance r lative to the fluctuation in the amount of bullion, &c. which it would be impossible for the Bank to furnish every week. Without sure, cert iin, ,incl valid information, it would be only delusive to the _ After a few word., from Sir J. REID and Mr. SCRoPE, Air. STKUTT withdrew biri am-ndment. Mr. GROTE moved as an amendment, to the ffect that accounts shoal be transmitted weekly to the Chan cellor of the Exchequer for the time being, of the amount of bullion issues, deposits, and other securities in the pos session of the Bank, according to the terms originally proposed by the Noble Lord (Althorp) in his letter to the Bank Directors on the Ist of April. The amendment was then put, and the gallery cleared for a division, when there appeared— For the Amendment Against it Majority against the Amendment —2l On our re entering she gallery, we lound Mr. WARBURTON on his legs, proposing an amend ment to the Effect that an average pc:count should he fur nished monthly of the issue, Le. of the Bank for the precedine three months. Lord ALTHORP c:oild not, at first sight, see any ob jection to the amendment of the Hon. Member, but could nut agree to th, proposition without further consideration. Mr. WARBURTON said, after the sta•ement of the Noble Lord, he would not press his amendment. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY proposed some verbal amendments in the 7th clause. Mr. GROTE, in reference to the amendment pro posed by Mr. Warburton, suggested the propriety of the averaue accounts being nose, not for the three months previous, but only for one month. Clause 7, as amended, was then agreed to, and or dered to stand part of the Bill. Clauses 8,9, 10 and 11, with a few verbal amend ments, were agreed to. On clause 12 being put, Sir J. WROTTESLEY rose. He did so, not for the purpose of objecting to the bargain that had been m ide with the B ink by the clause, but to draw the attention of the Committee to the particular inconvenience that arose from the length of time that was suffered to elapse before the dividends were made and the Stock Exchange closed. A deal of time was at present taken up in making up the accounts, from the fact of so many fractions of a pound being allowed.—(Hear, hear.) No inconve nience Nviiuld arise from allowing of no fraction lower than 2s. This would be the 10th of a pound, and he would suggest, as an additional facility in making out the accounts, that a coin could be issued of that value to be called a Prince, this would he the 10th part of a sovereign, and an arrangement might be made with the Commissioners for the redemption of the National Debt, to adopt that mode of calculation, and he dial not doubt it would prevent the necessity of the public being put to the inconvenienc e they now were by the length of time stocks were closed. This would bring ue so near to a decimal system, that he should hope to see it lead to a general adoption of that system. Two of the most civi ,ized nations in the world had adopted that system, and if England, which might be said to govern commerce, adopted it, th ere cou ld not b e a d ou b t t h a t it would lead to the most convenient results. He would show the House how near they already were to decimal calculations. If silver decimal money were adopted in the way h e suggested i t would only rema i n to provide for the copper money. Now our copper money tvas only half its nominal valise, so that, it was, In feet, a mere token. No berm then, Would be done by declaring that a penny-piece sho id pass for five farthings. By this means the same number of pieces t , coin might be made to exchange for six aences and fthi lines, as now did, which silver coin being al• dee mal., would make a hundred farthings equive lent to a prince, which, as he had already stated. would be the tenth part of a pound sterling. No difficulty could arise to prevent the adoption of thi arrangement, for the Crown was enabled by its preroga tive to declare that such should be the value of the penny. piece. The plan would he attended with another conve nience,'which, to some Gentlemen might appear ridiculous —he meant the convenience of the poor having a proper supply of farthings. At present they were often obliged to give a halfpenny for what, it there w is a propel proportion of small coin, they would give a small. r portion of a penny for, a matter of some importance to those whose income might only he four shillings a-week. Mr. Alderman THONIPSON said that the statement made by his Hon. Friend had quite taken him by sur prise, so that he could give no answer to the suggesting he had made, nor, indeed, did he know that he should have been able to have given one, even had he been aware of that statement. The period during which consols wen now closed was about six weeks; hut he did not think that that period would appear too long when he came to state the number of transfers which took place at the Bank in the course of one year, and its other business which had to arrange. By a paper which he held in his hand. it appeared, that the number of tranteers at the Bank in one year was 286,572 and the amount of stock transferred was 304,218,7911. The number of new accounts opened in the same period was 34,656. The daily average of transfer for the year was 1 069. The dividend warrants paid amounted to 279,7511. ; of which 87,176/. were re ceived by persons whose dividends amounted to less than five pounds half yearly. He was certain that the House would think that the period taken to arrange these accounts with the accuracy for which he thou : ht he might rake credit in behalf of the Bank could not by any plan be materially reduced. Mr. CLAY would take the opportunity of asking the Noble Lord whether it would not be passible to remedy an inconvenience and injury of which the public had now a right to complain? The dividends were due on the sth January and 5 h July, hut in point of fact the public did not receive them till three or four days after, so that the Bank, besides its acknowledged emoluments for transact. ing the public business, had in addition the advantage of using an enormous sum of money for a number of days. Clauses 12, 13. and 14. wee.• then put and agreed to. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL, in bringi❑g up an additional clause by way of rider, said, it had been prepared to hut beyond all doubt the right to establish banks of deposit within the metropolis, and sixry•five miles round it. The Committee had been repeatedly informed, that the basis of the contract between the Bank and the Chancellor of the Exchequer wos the statu quo —that is, whatever monopoly they were entitled to, they were still to enjoy, but nothing beyond it. Now, a question hes been mooted whether the pre-existing monopolies, entitled them to complain of the esta blishment of banks of deposit, within the limits which I have described, and it appears to me, after a dili gent examination into all the caste, that there is no pretence for saying that the establishment of such banks is any encroachment on their monopoly.—(Hear.) A notion to the contrary has prevailed in some quarters, but, as it seems to me, without the slightest founda tion. I have looked into the Act, and I think that no rational doubt can he entertained on the subject, and whatever doubt is entertained ought now to be obviated, because it would be most discredit able to Government and the House to pass a law which is professedly equivocal, and thus leave it to courts of jus tice to put a construction on what they allow to be doubtful. By the Act 6 Wiliam and Mary it was established as a bank of issue. Now, in that Act there was nothing whatever to give a monopoly, but in the Bth and 9 h of William 111., which contains very general words, and which, taken by themselves without the intention of the Legislature, and without the context, it might be said that no private hank now existing in any part of the kingdom could be tolerated, but it must mean a bank ejusdem generis—such a bank, that is, as the Bank of England ; and that construction has been put on it by all subsequent Ace, for the Grim Anne, c. 62, recites that corporations had united together, and were acting as banks of issue, and therefore the enactment is, that it shall not be lawful fir any other corporation than the Bank of England to barrow, owe, or take up any sum or sums of money on paper, note, or notes payab e on demand or at any less time than six months from the borrower. Now this shows that the object was that the monopoly should be confined to the issue.—(Hear.) Now these words are repeated in every subsequent Act of Parliament that has been pissed for the maintenance of the monopoly, and it is upon tie se words alone that the monopoly rests. The words are repeated in the 15th of Ge.,. 11. c. 13, s. 35 ; in the 21st of G o. 111. c. 62, P. 12 ; the 39th and 40th Geo. 111. ch. 38 ; and in the last Act which was passed for t. e maintenance of this monopoly. It rests with those whit say that they are forbidden to establish such Banks r•f deposit to show that the words of the Act contemplate the case, the words being merely that they shall not " borrow, take up, or owe" upon any piper, &e.—(Rear, hear.) Such are the opinions, Sir, I have entertained upon the subj-ct, and such are the opinions of eminent men of the profession to which I have the honour to belong. I think, therefore, Sir, that the Committee will have no difficulty in agreeing to this clause, which declarts what shall be the law. The Learned Gentleman then read the clause, and said that the Committee would ob serve that the words constituting the monopoly of th • Bank of England were clearly recognised. Under this declaration, any tank of deposit may be established in the metropolis, or within 65 milts of it, so that it is not a bank of issue. Mr. GISBORNE objected to the clause, on the ground that it would prevent the agents of country bankers in town from accepting the bills drawn upon them.—(Hear.) He hoped, therefore, that the Com mittee would not sanction any clause that prevented joint stock Bankers from catrying on their business in the same manner as other Bankers reere allowed to do. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said it was impossibl • for him to allow thin clause to pass without making some observations upon it. According to the statements of the Learned Solicitor-General, it had been introduced for the purpose of making that clear which was admitted to be matter of doubt. He had every possi ble respect for the legal opinion of his Learned Friend, but he must be allowed to state that there were lawyers of great eminence who entirely disagreed with that Learned Gentleman, as to the tight of establishing banks of deposit in London, or within sixty five mil, s of it, with more than six partnets.—(Hear.) He had always understood that P dliament legislated for the purpose of settling disputed questions, and when conflicting judgments had been given upon points by Courts of Justice. He had a right to contend that the interpretation he put upon the law, which was different from that of the Learned Solicitor- General, was the right one, because it had never been questioned in a court of justice. He tocou_lat upon this, as upon several other occasions, the Noble Lord ought to have been satisfied with proposing one general clause, reserving to the Batik those rights which it hai4 hitherto enjoyed under the existing state of the law.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had stated, no doubt with great sincerity, that he had no intention of defraudin, the Bank of any privileges a high it at present enjoyed. The introduction, however, of this clause would have that effect. With respect to the pro position of the Honourable Member for Derbyshire, it would amount to this, that the j tint stock banking comp inks now established in the distant provinces, would in effect be no more than branches of j tint stock ecmpanies established in London, and would destroy that system of private banking which had so long tetisted, mil which was so essentially no cessary to forward the great interests of the metropolis. If the session had not been so near a close, he should certainly have felt it his duty to have moved for the app .intment of a Committee upon the petition, which had been pre sented from the joint stock bankers, and would in that Committee have called u d on them to state a single instance in which they had been placed in difficulty on account of the Bank letusin. t to discount good bills. --(Heir, hear.) In conclusion, the Honourable Ald. r man stated it would have been more satisfactory to his feelings, and more in accordance with prudence, if the Learned Solicitor General had pro p osed a general clause reserving all the rights and privileges which the Bank of England at present enjoyed. Lord ALTHORP was not aware of any Thigh legal authority %those opinion was not that the ti ue inter pretation of the law was such ae the clause contemplated. He should feel himself bound to stand by the clause, as was proposed by th e Solicitor Genera , . It was true that 11, i had n an ff hand way, on being asked a question in th House, told the Hun. Gent. opposite that he did not Intend to propose the establ shinent of Banks of D.-posit in Lon don, consisting of mare than six partners, and that wa because he thought that such was then the law ; bu although he wished the Bank of England to be the sole bank of issue in the metropolis, he bad no in tehtion of giving it any addition..l privileges injurious t. private banks in the metropolis. It appearing then to to /fcr) 1 1 law, that bank,' of dep i•lt m'kii; le a-I London, con.istirig of ripe e a p nets, le. (1: t abject, to cleating up wbat arts:_in'glit hang over the . .: .4 • 'Jr. CLAY held in his hand the opinion of two , • iertt gentlemen of the legal profession on ,this, saihikat, they Avirii - e..lrd by he Soli: t e o n r ti G re e ly concurred in i a n ut t h h o e rit o 3 p ,, i nh i o ts 4,,r, required m corroboration. He rose chi, fly to make sin e or two v.aervations on what hail fallen from the Hon. Alderman (the Bank Director) behind bim. When that wort} y Alderman att 'eked the respectability of petitioners, who orayed for a greater freedom in banking, and called upon them to prove their allegations, lie forgot that the anus probancli lay with those who maintained the monopoly, and not with those who complained tfit. It was insufferable that the petitioners should be put in the condition of defendants. The Bank, however, 'tail certainly good reason for wishing to deprive the pub dc of places of deposit so secure as competition would ;dye. In 1807 the amount of private deposits with the Bank was only a million and a half, whilst now it was be tween five and six millions, arising from a growing feeling an the part of the public, that a great society must afford better security to depositors than the most le-. spectable private individual.--(Hear, hear.) The Ban!: spoke in very pretty langurpe, and made a great dis play of the swirlier in modo ; hut no sooner was the hem of his garment touched, than the fortiter in re became predominant. Nothing cou'd be more diplomatic than the answers given by the two Bank Directors yesterday, as to their understanding of the bargain made with the Chancellor of the F.xelie quer. They had left the House in as great uncertainty an the subject, as if regularly bred to diplomacy. He had thought it ne. etsary to protest in relation to tl.e 4,000 individuals who had come forward again•t the measure. If the question had been delayed, there would have been upwards of 40,000. It was well understood why thousands did not come forward and sign those pe titions. There were many motives acdiating them which it was unnecessary to state, hut opt his o vn authority he would tell the House, that these were thousands connected with that part of London whirls he represented, second to none either in wealth and respectability, that were most decidedly opposed to the measure. Alo. GISBORNE complained that there was only one London merchant examined before the Committee of last session. It was stated that the inquiry was into the sys tem pursued by the Bank of En:!land—he under stood the inquiry to he into the general system of B inking, and complained that they called only a few English country bankers before them who had been in business hut for a comparatively short period, whil, they bad neglected to summon any banker from hey end the borders, where a free system of banking had been established for upwards of one hundred ye. i r s . —(Hear, heir.) He would move as an amendment to the Hon. Solicitor General's clause, that two months should be subsituted in place of six months, b,ca tlie ccaten !ed that t vo months' bills were no part of the eir. ci.latiol of the country. He male his motion in ord , r to give freedom to the B, , stein of banking in London. s.r JOHN WROTTESLEY said he had waited to the last moment for expressing his opinion in order to see whether it would he necessary for him to give any opinion upon it at all. That clause was so important that he was impressed with a feeling of awe upon it ; seeing the state in which the House then was. That Parliament been elected under the impression that all monopolies should cease.—(Hear, hear.) By looking at the ptPilic papers he found that 300 out of the 658 Alembers were pleted at the hustings to voce for the repeal of all monopolies, more particularly the Bank and East Indi 1, vet now, when they were discussing one of the most important of all, there were not above fi ty Members present. In the year 1826 that Hous. was engaged in finding a remedy for the panic tl at then took place. It did not, however, blame the B ink of England, but most unjustly, in his opinion, threw all the blame on the country bankers.—(Hear, heat.) I T e m n t e , as a u n r , e i s w tl: t e h n p o ,it rt i p m . i se u idry,we there hurried h at : r t pa n r i t u g o h f Pathr e co untry banking establishments were most mat-rially in. jured. The laws of that year stated the insufficiency of the country bankers, and the then Parliament agreed to allow the Bank of England to establish branch hanks, but also to the establishment of Joint Stick Bulks, with an unlimited number of partners, within 65 miles of London. Upon that occasion it was with the grea'est difficu ty that that the then Government could persuade the Bank of England m allow Joint Sock Banks within that distance.—(llear, hear.) As they were found to 1 7 e good for the county as they were found to be good for Southampton, he could see no reason why they should not also be established in Winches er.—( Hear, hear.) There was scarcely a man of intelligence before the Com mittee, and there were none but men of intelligence exa mined who could answer the question which e had put to all of them why tho-e joint stoch hanks should rn.t do as well in London as in the courrry. He stand it before several Members of the Commit tee; hut 0) that goes , ion he had nor got .ne fiatiartiC ory answer. He was sorry that he saw so few gentlemen present who had pledged themselves at the bust ngs to oppose this monopoly, otherwi s e he would have pursued and acted on his intentions, which were for the total ab, itiun of the monopoly, and that with out taking into view its own interest. As it was most important that that measure should in some wry be settled that session, and as he saw no chance of succeeding in the proposition he would make, he was obliged to gise his reluctant consent to the measure. Mr. EWA RT denied what was advanced by the lion. Alderman (Thompson). The spirit of monopoly was invariably the same. could see no good reason why joint stock banks should not be established in London. If they were found good for the provinces, they would be equally benefit.ial for the metropolis. Mr. HENRY WILLOUGHBY doubted extremely the policy of the clause introduced by the Learned So licitor. General Returns had been presented to the House, which proved that in London the system of bunking was not by any means perfect—(Hear, bear) —for since 1824, thirteen hankers had become bankrupt in Lo don an r 36 within the di trict of 65 miles. Mr. GROTE deemed that any r valence existed to show that any practical evil resulted from the Lon don B inking System. As to the returns alluded to by the Hon. Bart., be only won lied from the manna in which they were made out, that instead of thirteen there were not 113 who had been bankrupt. Sever al were included in those returns who were army and navy agents, and who could not, properly speaking, be called bankers. He therefore contended that no practical evil had resulted trom the present London banking system. _ _ Mr. J..A. SMITH said he conbinot concur in the ob servations of the Hun. Member for the city of London, and suggested that the clause should not come into opera- ion so eirly. Lord ALTHORP could not concur in altering the date of the operation of the clause, as it was a declaratory one. Alter a few olervations from Mr. CLAY, the noose divided, when there appeared— For the amendment Against it 49 Majority n favour of tLe Clause —33 The claue was then agreed to. Mt. THICKNESS moved the insertion of the following " that the said Governor and Company of the Binh of England shad not, after the I"th Janusry, ISRP, invest, or con inue invssred, in loan to Government, and Government securities, any sinn or sums of money which, s,perately or together, shall in amount exceed heir subscribed and surplus capital." After a few observations frotn Mr. Alderman THOMP SON. the clause was negatived. The House resumed, and the Chairman reported pro grefe4. Lorl ALTHORP in moving that the report he received on iNl. , nday evening, said he hoped the House would hive ;ro objection to proceed with the Factories' Regulation 13111, On Monday morning. Ou the motion of Lord DUNCANNON the Grand Juries Ireland Bill was read a third time and passed. The House then adjourni.l. MINORITY Of Twenty-one (Teller incluicd) who voted, At the Twelve o'clock Sitting thii day, in fivour of a weekly account of the Btilances, Is,ues, and Bullion, of the Bank of England. Aglionby, 11. A. Brocklenurst, J. Dashwom, G. D. Dykes, F. 1,. Ewart, W. rltzroy, Lord .1. .ii,norne, T. B Hawkins, J. H. Torrens, Colonel Martin, .1. W r ,urton, H. Philips, M. We .gwood, J. Potter, R. Willoughby, Sir H. Scrope, P. Wood, W Strutt, E. Todd, J. R. TELLER. Grote, (3. .rigaged Sir JOHN IL r. E DOV-I,e proceed to o f the gall nt Opw , o, as it is sal , l to he the intewi.n We understand that a civil engineer has be en o a k r: tfic , r to establish a sieatil cononurocation bets% ten that dace and Li•lion. Sir JOH N it will be ea 1, ( hr proprn,tor of a steitner call d the Royal Gcorge, vhicli he sod the exi.til Goverritnew ..1 l'ortu‘al. \lrs. liestie Manners, .ani St..t , of S .ciety in ti.e „ rrot we nevr.l find irt s ttiv ating to all classes of read e rs, yulalirfw.Ceail .dAt character:,Leis book, bur its ,onuniercisi la uitulux. 'RNCH FUNDS.—PARts, AUG. 7. p,, 11 - Per Cents., 101 f ' 9sc 105 f toj a nd a Half per Cfnts 101 f. 50c. N.' Per Cents., 94f. "5c .-: " Ilatr Pe r o ents 76f. - 6uc. 90c. 55c. int ns, 1"730f• 1104 de,iv Naples 92f. 91f. 90c. per i Cents., 9. 14 92 91% tspagne Five per Cents., 17 17 414• qov. „"'xspagne, Three per Cents., 41% 4., 144 r+Panish Loan, 85. llele rerpet. d'Espagne, 6.9 9 4 %. I ta r , y?,,, Ln i .an, 1831, 97 96% %. Five per Cents., 67% , "kek - '°an 290 f. 295 f. 300 f. Otnniuin, 1061,04% EXCHANGE ON LONDON. r, , e 'n e Ohth, Paper, 25f. 60c. ; money, 25f.c• ' , Co Monts, aper p, 25f. 50c. ; money, ,„ -).2. 45c.