The Sun. — London, England, 1863-07-03 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAIriiINT HOUSE OF LORDS—Last Evening. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Peterborough,Wisbeach, and Sutton Railway—Lon don and North Western (additional powers) Railway—Great Eastern Railway—Bonelli's Electric Company—Tamworth and Harrington Bridge Roads—Madras Irrigation and Canal Company—Wakefield and Aberford Roads—Scot tish North Eastern and Dundee and Arbroath Railways Amalgamation Lynn and Sutton Bridge Railway— Standedge and Oldham Turnpike Trust—Newhaven Har bour and Ouse Lower Navigation—Wakefield Ings Road and Hadlow Railway Bills, were read a second time, THIRD READINGS. Aberyetwith and Welch Coast Railway—Tendring Hun dreds Railway, and London, Brighton, and South Coast Railway (Extensions and Alterations) Bills were read a third time and passed. THE INDIAN NAVY. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH presented a petition from the naval and military officers of the late East India Company's Service, complaining of certain injustices that had been practised upon them in the matter of pensions and compensations, and praying for a commission of inquiry. The Duke of ARGYLL said he thought the officers in the late East India Company's service had been very libe rally dealt with Under the new regulations of the Govern ment of Ind 4 .a. In all cases the pensions awarded were considerably over those awarded in the Royal Navy, and in many cases officers had been awarded pensions which were sot given in her Majesty's service. Under all the circumstances he did not think there were any just ground for complaint. BRITISH COLUMBIA BOUNDARIES BILL. The Duke of NEWCASTLE, in moving the second reading of this bill, took the opportunity of referring to the improved prospects of Vancouver's Island, because a belief existed that this distant dependency had never prospered, and, what was more, never would. He said that the re moval of the authority of the Hudson's Bay Company had been attended with the best results, as there had already been a great improvement in the state of the colony, and in a few years it would, without doubt, become a place of great importance. Although it had only been founded four years, he ha. great satisfaction in inform ing their lordships that the name of Vancouver's island would never again figure in the estimates of the House of Commons. He cousifkred this a great credit to the legis lature of the county, During the last year the revenue had doubled, an?., d uring that time no less than 1,000 miles of roads had l',een constructed—not of a temporary descrip tion, but edi as good a description as would be found England. Last year the revenue from these roads amounted to no less than £lO,OOO, but gratif,ying as the result was, it was confidently expected that, the amount received this year would be not less than sza,ooo, thus enabling the colony to repay the loan of £lOO,OOO in about 5 y ears, when good and substantial roads would be open up to the foot of the Rocky Mountains. An arrangement was in progress between the Governments of Canada, British Columbia, and Vancouver's Island, for the purpose of making a telegraphic communication which, taking advantage of the roads made and being made, would complete a line of telegraph across the entire continent. This would be done by the colonies themselves. There would be no guarantee by the British Government. There was also a plan in contemplation, called the Intercolonial Railway, which would connect the Atlantic and the Pacific oceans through British North America ; and when they considered the results to which such an opening would give rise, their expectations of the grand future which was before the British colonies in North America could hardly be too san guine. There were certain gentlemen in the City who had made arrangements to buy up the shares and rights of the hudson's Bay Company for £1,500,000. They had applied to the International Financial Association for an advance, to enable them to pay down ready money for the purchase, and the arrangements had been finally made 'that very even ing. The International Financial Asse.ciation had merely interposed to aid the purchasers, an",t the new proprietors were resolved to open up the country under their control. He mentioned these facts, as b:e had heard that some noble lords intended to question }..: fin upon the reported purchase of the property of the He:" . .tson's Bay Company. But, in fact, it was no purchase. I was a mere transfer from one set of shareholders to anotler, and the new proprietors had secured the valuable serv = ices of Sir Edmund Head, who had con sented to act as. governor. The Earl of DONOUGHMORE thought the house and the Government ought to be very careful about what they were doing. The Hudson's Bay Company was a most obstructive body. They had kept the vast territory entrusted to their management a howling wilderness, traversed only by wild animals, trappers, and hunters. They had opposed every attempt at colonisation. They held under a charter of Charles IL, which gave them most extensive rights, and if those rights were to be pre served and enforced by the new proprietors, the Govern ment would be without excuse, because the new company could say that the transaction was open and notorious. (Hear, hear.) He wished to know what guarantee the Go vernment had that the new company would encourage colonisation. He wished also to know what arrangement had been come to with the American Government respect ing the disputed island of San Juan. Lord TAUNTON agreed with the Earl of Donoughmore is thinking that the transfer of the charter, shares, rights, and stock of the Hudson's Bay Company to a new company (for in fact it amounted to that) was a most dangercus transaction, and one which ought to be looked upon with - very great jealousy. The old company had treated the Indians with great care. The treatrjlent of the red men in the Hudson's Bay territory cor.:trasted most favourably with that which they received ' A t the other side of the border. If anything was to be char,ged in the management, the traditions of the company might possibly not be preserved. As to the colonies of 'British Columbia and Vancouver's Island, he had heard stories which deeply shaded the pic tures of prosperity drawn by the n o bl e d uke (of Newcastle). He had heard that English settlers carried on a most hor rible traffic in Indian women, whom they put chased from the native tribes, and brought down to the settlements, where they hired them out for the vilest purposes, and then left then to perish by the most loathsome and abominable disease, or sent them back to spread contamination amongst their own people. The Duke of NEWCASTLE was unable to give any other information upon the subject of the transfer of the Tights and charters of the old to the new proprietors of the Hudson's Bay Company than that which he had wo uld not be a n ew one, for already given. Th e com pany several of the old shareholders would remain. As to his hp.ving any right to interfere, and to obtain any special berms from the new shareholders, he had none. The shareholders did not require his sanction to buy or sell their shares. He had obtained what ho considered very important concessions, but as to any permission from him, the shareholders did not require it. As to the condition of the Indian women, these crimes had existed for centuries and he did not see how they could be prevented, however much they might be deplored. The island of San Juan, it had been agreed, should be jointly occupied by British and American forces until the dispute could be finally adjusted. Bu;,; the war in America had comp e ll e d the Amer i can Go vernment to concentrate all its power, and the force on San Juan had been withdrawn about two years ago. Every application to the American Government to settle the mat ter had been met by the reply that they had too much on their hands to leave them time to attend to so distant a settlement; so the matters in dispute remained still in abeyance. The bill was then read a second time. The following bills went through consmittee :—The Naval Medical Supplemental Fund Society Winding. up Act, 1861, Amendment, the Telegraphs, the Sheep and Cattle (Scot land), the Oaths Relief in Criminal Proceedings (Scotland), the Postmaster-General (Sale of Land), and the District Parochial Churches (Ireland). - --. . The Land Drainage (Provisional Orders) Bill, the Juris diction of Justices Bill, were read a second time. The Officers of Royal Naval Reserve Bill, the Sale of Mill Sites, &c. (Ireland) Bill, the Volunteers Bill, and the Regimental Debts, &c., Bill, were read a third time and passed. The report on amendments to the Local Government Supplemental (No, 2) Bill wore agreed to. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OP COMMONS—Last Evening. The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEMBERS. Mr. CARGILL (Berwick) and Mr. VERNER (Lisburn) took the oaths and their seats. PRIVATE BUSINESS. - The Merthyr, Tredegar, and Abergavenny Railway Bill was read a third time. THE PURCHASE OF THE INTERNATIONAL BUILDING. Mr. GREGORY presen o t f edPetition from the Finan cial Reform Association Liverpool against the extra vagant outlay proposed in connect s ion . with this new build ing ; also a petition from the 010 0 . 0, et . 3 7 of Arts on the iec w h h onable . in point of ground that it is exceedingly . str . ictures were taste, and the ridicule of foreigners , petitions only mollified by the assurance that the o b s u e ilding was only temporary ; Lord ELCHO presented two the purchase of the building; Mr. CRA.NVER against from mer chants and bankers in the City of London to ' effect ; also by Mr. WHITE, from Brighton. the same HAWKERS' LICENCES. Mr. FERRAND gave notice that on Monday he should ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether small hawkers were compelled to take out a licence. ACCIDENTS ON RAILWAYS. Mr. BENTINCK gave notice that on Friday, the 16th, on going into a committee of supply, he should bring the subject of accidents before the house, and move a resolu tion thereon. POLAND. 4 : II, ORsMAN gave notice that on an earl y day he 6- Nr ll i e . nu " k lo t „ . °Pose a resolution to the effect that the treat y of " a° been violated in respect ;to the good govern ment Of * Pa ul a v. Itnesia, and that its continuance WOUld be most calamitous to Poland and dangerous to the peace of Europe. REDUCTION OF INDIAN REGIMENTS. In reply to Col. SYKES, The Marquis of HARTINGTON stated that it had been determined to reduce by a troop each of the Indian cavalry regiments, so as to place them on a looting with the English regiments. POLAND. Mr. HORSMAN asked the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs on what day the English and French not e s were received at St. Petersburg ; on what day the Austrian note was recEivi ; on what ilay the several notes were presented. to the Russian Minister ; and, whether the Be-'itsh Ambassador was instructed to keep back the D.:,glish note till the Austrian note arrived ? Mr. LAYARD replied that the three notes were re ceived together, and delivered by the representatives of the three Powers to Prince Gortschakoff on the 27th, who said he should at once refer them for a reply to the Emperor. No instructions were given to the English Am bassador to keep back the English note till the Austrian note arrived. No reply had yet been received, nor could he undertake to say when there would be a reply. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. Sir R. PEEL stated, in reply to Mr. BAGWELL, that he was aware that some distress prevailed in Ireland. A good many exaggerated statements were put forward in the newspapers. He had not received any 3c.mmunication from the Poor Law Commissioners. No case of actual starva tion had reached him. lONIAN ISLANDS. Col. FRENCH asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies, in what manner the desire of the inhabitants of the lonian Islands to be annexed to the Kingdom of Greece was to be tested ? Mr. FORTESCUE apprehended by summoning the local Parliament for that specific purpose. Communica tions were now going on. THE WAR AMERICA.—MEDIATION. Mr. FORSTER, alluding to the debate the other evening, and the recent visit of two members of that house to Paris (Mr. Roebuck and Mr. Lindsay), 'called upon the hon. gentleman the Under-Secretary for Foreign Affairs for some explanation. Mr. LAYARD rose and asked the indulgence of the house whilst he entered at more than usual length into a reply to the question. (Cheers.) Mr. ROEBUCK would accede to this request provided the hon. gentleman would move the adjournment of the bourse. (011, vu .) Mr. LAYARD said grave and unprecedented char, had been made against the Government, and he clai r i the indulgence of the house. Mr. ROEBUCK rose to order. (Much noise, and ci of "Oh, oh.") Mr. CONINGHAM—The hon. and learned membei not the dictator of this house. (Hear, hear, and laughti Mr. ROEBUCK desired to say that he hoped noth would be put forward by the hon. member, to which a re could not be immediately given. The SPEAKER ruled that the Under Secretary wa, order. l i Mr. LAYARD then expl a i ne d a t some l eng th th e w ' o l e course of proceeding. The hon. a n d l earne d mem b er a d charged the Government with a b reac h o f con fid enc in improperly furnishing a confidential document i to the Minister of a foreign Sovereign. He (41r. Layard) stated on Tuesday that no communication had been received from the French Government tendinik to intervention or any ocher proceeding affecting the Northern and Southern States. He repeated now that no commUni cation had been received to this effect since that of Novdm ber last. (Hear, hear.) The French Minister for Foreign Affairs wrote to the French Ambassador in London on the 10th of October, but it was not com municated to her Majesty's Government till the 10th of November, and then only verbally, as no copy ivas w t ) furnished. Before the reply of the Government could be given, this document appeared in the Moniteur on the 3 th of November. (Hear, hear.) The Government, folio ng that of France, published their reply in the Gazette on he 14th, The despatch was duly communicated to the AMe rican Government, but it was the 2d of December when Mr. Seward spoke to Lord Lyons—and for the first time — on the matter. (Hear, hear.) 1 Mr. ROEBUCK asked if a comment had not been ceived from the French Government in the spring of present year again suggesting intervention ? Mr. LAYARD had made a strict search at the Forei Office and could find nothing of the kind. (Hear, hear. Lord R. CECIL asked if any verbal communication I been made ? Mr. LAYARD replied that it was his solemn conviction that no communication of the kind had been made. (Haar, hear.) The subject then dropped. POLAND. In reply to Mr. BENTINCK, Mr. HENNESSY stated that he should andeavou4 to bring on his motion when all the papers were on the table of the house. BURLINGTON HOUSE AND THE EXHIBITION BUILDING. Lord J. MANNERS inquired if the Government would then state what appropriation was proposed to be made i of the ground of Burlington House; and, secondly, under what management the Exhibition building was to be placed? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that with regard to the first question, it must depend upon the vote come to by the house relative to the Kensington estate. The second question he should defer answering until :he made his statement later in the evening, in submitting the vote for the purchase of the building to the house. THE DEBATE ON THE AMERICAN WAR. Mr. ROEBUCK asked the Secretary of State for he Home Department when it would be convenient for hi to bring on the adjourned debate P_ Sir G. GREY understood that Monday week would be the first convenient day. Mr. BRIGHT regretted that the debate could not be taken before, so that the result might have gone out by the next mail. THE GIBRALTAR. Lord R. CECIL asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he was willing to lay upon the table, without reserve, all communications with respect to the detention of the vessel Gibraltar, which have passed /be tween any officer or department of the Government and the collector of customs at Liverpool. Sir G. GREY said the matter had no reference to the Home Office, but rested with the Customhouse authorities. There would be no objection to lay on the table the commu nications that had passed between the Board of Customs and the collector of customs, so far as it related to the 'de tention of the Gibraltar. PENAL SERVITUDE COMMISSION. In answer to a question from Lord NA AS, who said an incorrect statement had been published relative to the report of the Penal Servitude Commission, Sir G. GREY said he received the report on Saturday, and ordered it to be laid on the table of the house on Mon day, which he believed was done. THE EXHIBITION BUILDING. On the motion for going into supply, Sir H. WILLOTJGHBY called attention to the mode of proceeding with reference to the vote for the Exhibition building and Kensington estate. The noble lord on acifor mer occasion laid a reso l ution on the table of the hous for the purchase of the whole, but he suddenly altered its terms, and took a vote for a portion only. He wished to know if that was in accordance with the rules of the house. The SPEAKER decided in the affirmative, and the house went into committee of supply. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I rise to propose a vote of £105,000 for the purchase of the Exhibi tion Building and the commencing of certain alterations with a view of fitti n g a p ortion of it to its int ended purpose ; but before I proceed to make that statement I vigil it to be un derstood that I intend to look at the questiox as a dry mat ter of business, an d I ask hon. members to hear me out be fore they form any judgment upon the subject. I s h a ll commence by endeavouring to clear the issue, and to re duce it to the simplest form, and to give the committee to understand as clearly and as fully as I can the nature, the extent, and the discretion we are going to ask for, and to state the restrictions by which we wish to be considered bound. With regard to the matters collateral to the issue, I ought to state, for the information of the committee, that if the vote we ask be granted, I shall, in pursuance of it, give notice for leav e t o b ring in a bill to authorise the separa tion of certain collection s a t the British Mu seum, because I consider th e h ouse, by a former v ote, contemplated the separation ; an d i t would have b ean needless for us to raise the questi on , and ask for aut h or ity to carry it out, unless we were in a condition to give effect to it by providing for the rearrangement of those collections by the enlargement of the Museum on its present site, so as to afford the greatest amount of accommodation. In the next case, I wish to clear all misapprehension in respect to it, and that enables me to give an answer to the second question put to me by the noble lord (Lord J. Man ners)—viz., that we propose to place the management and the control of this property, in case the committee should sanction its purchase, not in the hands of any subordinate department, or any department having partial responsi bility, but in the hands of the Treasury, in order that re sponsibility might be as direct and summary as possible, and that all inquiries should be addressed direct to the head of the Government. (Hear, hear.) 1 now, therefore, proceed to a very irksome portion of my duty, and one which no thing but an absolute necessity would ever have induced me to enter; but I have no choice. The hon. member for Galway, in a speech made by him on a former occasion, gave the house his opinion of the ability of Mr. Mallett, a gentleman who, up to that time, was unknown to me ; and I considered it my duty afterwards to inform myself who and what that gentleman is. The hon. gentleman said he was an eminent engineer, and drew out, under Sir C. Barry, the whole of th e working plans for the Houses or Parliament. It is but right that I should do justice to Mr. Mellott, and I gent find that h e i s a very is he is best k nown b y the quakes. (Laught er .) ous and clever gentleman, and production th of e question was s a W not O a rk on boutth e e arth con struction, but the destruction of public buildings I don't he sitate to say that th a t gentleman, from consi deration of that subje c t, would be aconhsiids persistenteae r bl au thority. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) Mr. Mallett is also known as the inventor of a certain mortar that is now to b e seen lying THE SUN, LONDON, PiiiDAY EVENING, JULY 3, 1863 in Woolwich yard, and I do not think it is an indication of safe guidance for the committee in a matter of expense, when I say that that ingenious mortar was tried three or four times, and on each time it required alteration, and cost the country £1,200, and it ended in its lying in the yard at Woolwich. (Oh, oh, and Question.) Ido not as t the com mittee to take anything on my credit, but I invite the hon. member for Galway to MO7e for the production of the whole correspondence rQleating to these trials. (Oh, oh, and Ques tigh.) Surely it is of importance to the committee that they should know something about this gentleman. But I now come to the direct statement that Mr. Mallett is the eminent engineer who had been employed under Sir C. Barry in im portant functions in connection with the houses of Parlia ment, and during the speech of my hon. friend I made at tempts to find out the biography of this gentleman. I found that the hon. member for Finsbury knew nothing about him ; but the hon. member for Bath said he knew who he was, and that he drew all the working plans for the Houses of Parliament. Mr. TITE—Not quite so. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I will withdraw my statement. (Hear, hear,) I certainly under stood so. All I mean is, that, having heard from my hon. friend that Mr. Mallett was a gentleman who had per formed important public duties in connection with the Houses of Parliament—l mention this as a matter of fact, and not of disparagement —I and the contractors made some inquiries respecting him ; and 1 hold in my hand two rather curious letters illustrative of the statement made by the hon. member for Galway, which I invite him and the committee to appreciate. The right hon. gentle man then read extracts from two letters received be him, the one from Mr. Banks, of the firm of Banks and Barry, architects. Mr. Banks said, " In reply to your (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer's) question as to Mr. Mallett's con nection with the new Palace at Westminster, I most con• fidently assert that that gentleman has in no way, directly or indirectly, been engaged upon the works. I can speak with confidence upon the subject, as I was chief assistant of Sir Charles Barry. Mr. Mallett was simply a visitor to the works for bis own gratification.' ' And then Mr. Meason writes, " In reply to your communication, I have to say that my connection with the Palace at Westminster commenced in 1844, when I was engaged by Sir Charles Barry as his principal assistant, and it lasted till 1856, and during all this time Mr. Richard Mallett had no connection with the building." Well, so much for Mr. Mallett's employment upon the construction of the magnificent Palace at West minster. It certainly does appear that at one time Mr. Mallett had as a partner Mr. Frederick Barry, an engineer, and I think that through that circumstance my hon. friend may have been led into an error, and probably also he may have confounded Mr. Mallett with Mr. Meason. At any rate, what I claim is that the authority of Mr. Mallett shall be wholly and absolutely withdrawn from this matter. (No, no.) I have not one word of retractation to utter with re spect to the estimates and figures prepared by Mr. Hunt; for upon examination by competent persons they have been entirely confirmed. Our object was to guide members to a right conclusion, and to that end we employed a most com petent gentleman to inquire what sum would be necessary to bring the building into a state of substantial repair with a view to permanent uses, and with a minimum of decora tion. The estimate of Mr. Hunt I believe to be perfectly trustworthy, but it would be an idle dream to suppose that those figures could be accepted as anything wore than a basis for ascertaining the sum for which the building might be made complete for practical purposes. However, a peti tion has been presented from the Society of Architects against the adaptation of the building for the purposes proposed. (Cheers.) Well, I shall not attempt to follow the allega tions of the petition, for by far the greater portion of them are beside the vote now before the committee, though the time may arrive when they will require to be taken into consideration. (Hear.) At the same time I demur alto gether to the opinion formed by these six or eight gentle men, even if they could be accounted at the head of their profession. I believe their opinion was formed upon a sin gle visit to the building. But the truth is, this petition is vary far from containing the names of the heads of the pro fession of architects. I admit that Professor Donaldson is a man of eminence, that Mr. Fergusson has written a very ingenious book, and is a very clever man; but I am not aware that Mr. Fergusson has ever erected a public build ing, or that heis a practical architect in that sense. At any rate this I may be permitted to observe, that the proceedings of the Society of Architects were not founded upon any re port from such men as Mr. Hardwicke, Mr. Cockerel!, Mr. Smirke, Messrs. Banks and Barry, Mr. Scott ; and although I have not thought it to be my duty to go about canvassing architects, I say that those gentlemen who are in the main the heads of their profession are not in any sense parties to this proposal, and that I have in my possession letters from two of them, namely a letter from Mr. Smirke and a letter from Mr. Scott, referring certainly to that which is one of the smallest parts of the whole question—the exterior de coration of the building—and giving it as their deliberate opinion that it is capable of being so treated, in respect of its exterior surface, as to be made a very handsome build ing. (Loud and prolonged laughter.) Gentlemen may be assured I do not intend to indulge in any enthusiasm about the building—(Laughter, and ironical cries of " Hear, hear")—but, of course, I use this expression in its general terms, at the same time that the language of these two gentlemen amounts to that. (Cries of "Read, read.") Well, to take the first sentence of Mr. Smirke's letter. He says, "I am not prepared to say that the outside of the building is not susceptible—(laughter)—of being made extremely ornamental. (Renewed laughter, and cries of " Read, read.") I certainly am not going to enter into the question between cement and stone, and the various bricks and terracotta. No Chancellor of the Exchequer can pretend to taste—he cannot have any—it is the last thing he dreams of, to put himself in competition with any of those great lights and luminaries upon matters of taste, whom we are so fortunate as to have in such numbers amongst us. (Laughter.) But I would direct the serious attention of the committee to the situation of difficulty in which we shall be placed if, after taking the important step of agreeing to the purchase of seventeen acres of ground— (ironical cheers)—we should stop short, and say that we shall do nothing more. Now, my desire is not to say one word injurious to the public interest ; but this I must affirm, that there is no obligation whatever of a written or specific character upon the contractors to remove the building within any given time at all. (Murmurs of dissent.) Of course there are obligations incumbent upon them by the general law. As possessors of the freehold we should have a right to go into courts of justice and eject the contractors; and then, having entered, we might remove the building, sub ject to making no unnecessary waste of the property, and to an accountability to the contractors for the net proceeds. Well, that is not a remedy of very summary operation. I see opposite to me gentlemen of great authority, who know full well at what time, by a series of hostile measures, we should succeed in ejecting the contractors, removing the building, and restoring the surface, which is not within the contract at all. At the end of two years we would find our selves in possession of a "tabula rasa" of 16 acres, and then we should have to face a greater architectural question than this house has ever yet entertained, namely, how to dispose of the site, unprecedently large, what building to place upon it, what architect to employ, what style to adopt, and lastly, what money would be required for the purpose. (Hear, hear.) Well, that is one of the alternatives before us if you determine to refuse this vote. I come now to the question of price. There is an opinion upon the part of the minority that we are going to offer the contractors an extra • vagant price for the building. Now we want to cover this 17 acres of land with a building suited for public purposes, and it is obvious that there is an immense advantage in having the materials upon the spot. On that account a l so it is obvious that the materials now there are worth more to us than to one who seeks to realise their value when re moved. The first price announced by the contractors—the minimum price—was £120,000 ; and we were informed that we might take the building at that price, or leave it there, Well, all things considered, I:cannot think that the contrac tors were making any very extravagant demand. The sum they received for erecting the building was £230,000, and its cost, when reduced by Mr. Fowler to an absolute mini mum, was £300,000. We refused that demand, and de clined to pay £lOO,OOO. Subsequently, Messrs. Seik and Lucas made a communication to my hon. friend the mem ber for Finsbury (Sir S. M. Peto), and having been in formed by him that he was in a condition to negotiate with me on their behalf, the first thing we agreed which should be done was to ascertain the net removable value. Mr. Hunt was employed, and told to devote his time, without reserve, to ascertaining the net removable value, which was always liable to variation in estimate. Mr. Hunt went to work for several weeks, and he reported to me that the net removable value of the buildings, the sum they would net to the contractors, if they were compelled to re move them within six months, and make forced sales of the materials, was £48,000. I then asked Mr. Hunt this quese Lion, whether, if we were to submit the matter to an impar tially chosen umpire, that such a person would give us a sum not much below £48,000, or not much above it ? Mr. Hunt said he could give us no assurance whatever. This estimate of the removable value was taken upon conditions totally different from the conditions that exist. It was taken upon the supposition that the contractors were obliged to pull down the building at once. I believe I command the assent of the committee when I say that the contractors are not under any specific obligation to remove the building within a certain time. (No, no.) I am really sorry to find expressions of dissent ; but the fact is this, that the com missioners of 186'2 have no contract whatever with the eon tractors with respect to the time within which they are to remove the building. (No, me) I am sorry to hear gen tlemen express dissent, but I am endeavouring to give a true statement of facts. (Hear, hear.) There is no con tract. Mr Hunt having made the proposal to me, and the naked figures having been stated, I said to him, " You have now discharged your official duty, but what do you think would be a fair offer to make the contractors ?" He replied that, if we were to make an offer for the building, we should offer from £90,000 to £lOO,OOO for it. I said we could not do anything of the kind, but subsequently, through my hon. friend the member for Finsbury, an un derstanding was come to that £BO,OOO should be the price of the building, and he assured me that the contractors could have realised a larger sum. The committee would see that there was very little difference between the estimate of Mr. Hunt and the estimate of the eminent engineer, Mr. Fowler. Mr. Fowler's estimate was £50,000 if the contractors were compelled to remove the building in six months; £60,000 if intwelve months ; and between £60,000 and £70,000 if in eighteen months. I have now come to the last portion of the subject, and will have to entreat the time of the committee only for a short time further. It is true, the executive Government, in dealing with the ques tion of the acquisition of a great mass of property, must have regard not only to the private convictions of the House of Commons, but also the prepossessions of the House ; feeling confident that lapse of time will considerably modify them. Now this is our position : we have got to provide for three urgent public wants ; the want of a national por trait gallery is urgent. (Laughter.) I admit it is not a want upon which the existence of the State depends. (Re newed laughter.) But if you have a national portrait gal lery, it ought to be where people can go and see it. They cannot do this at present, for in the house in Great George street ten persons could not be accommodated at one time in any of the rooms, and not five if they were ladies. An other great want is the Patent Museum. The Commission ers of Patents have been pressing the Treasury for ac commodation, and if we are unable to find a place for them at Kensington, we shall have to provide a sum of £220,000 to enable them to build a museum for them selves, The third want was to provide a suitable place for the natural history collection at the British Museum. We desire to satisfy these three urgent wants, and we have no means of sat sfying them within a definite time, except by appropriating some portion of the site at Ken sington. We wi, h to satisfy these wants, and we also wish to consult the inclinations end prepossessions, and, I will go so far as to add, the prejudices entertained in the House of Commons ; and before we pledge ourselves incon veniently to ony public expenditure, in all probability the matter will be settled. We have considered in what way these urgent public wants could be satisfied, and I hold in my hand ocular demonstration of the means—that is to say, I have a plan which will explain distinctly and intel ligibly to the committee the mode by which we propose to apply the vote we now ask them to give. This portion of the plan shows that part of the building looking towards the north. It has appeared to the Government that public opinion is totally adverse to the destruction of the picture galleries. (Cries of No, no, and Hear, hear.) This pro posal involves the maintenance of the picture galleries, but I don't want the committee to come to any conclusion with regard to the exterior. We propose that this branch of the question shou'd stand over for fuller discussion upon the miscellaneous estimates. (Ironical cheers.) The ground floor of the galleries will afford not superfluous, but ample accommodation for patents; the other part of the plan or drawing has relation to the northern part of the building, and for which it will be necessary to make another proposal. We propose a sun of £120,000 for seventeen acres of land, which land includes the site of a building looking towards the Horticultural Gardens, and forming a large portion of the north front of the structure ; the cost price of which may be taken at £30,000. It is so difficult for persons who have no taste to approach a matter of this kind, that I bow with entire humility. (A. laugh.) Thi s facade being considered convenient and unobjectionable, and being connected with the Horticultural Gardens, we propose to preserve; but we do not propose to deal with the exterior of any part of the building ; only adapting the galleries for the patents, and a space of about 21 acres adjacent to Ihe Horticultural Gardens—but not at all in terfering with the dome—(laughter) — in order to take pre liminary measures for preparing it for the recepti on o f t h e natural history collection at the British Museum. The exterior of the building will remain as it is, pending the de claration of the pleasure of Parliament, and the public will have time to consider what Government, or what a com mittee or a commission may recommend. Lord R. CECIL—Does the right hon. gentleman begin by buying the building ? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—We take the land and building as they stand ; but we do not pro pose to make any arrangement with regard to the land or the building beyond the adaptation of the picture galleries and about 21 acres for the purpose of the British Museum. So that we ;ive up the dome, and only ask authority to deal with 41 acres, instead of 8 acres originally mentioned. Now, with respect to the financial aspect of the question, I think I shall be able to crate the finances with perfect precision. We have get to pay £120,000 for the land, and for the build ing upon a portion of that land a further sum of £30,000. We have also to pay the contractors 180,000; and I have ascertained that the cost of adapting the building to the purposes Ihave already described will cost another sum of £90,000. The total sum I have to ask the committee to pledge itse,f for is £290,000. According to one estimate the cost of the picture galleries was put at £90,000, and in an other at £30,000. Well, then, we have the land, which is worth £25!),000; commissioners' buildings, £30,000; the picture galleries, £BO,OOO. Or, to put it in another point of view, we will have 42 acres or 5 acres adapted in the manner I have stated, and, besides, we will have 12i acres of a site and the removable value of the building. We recommend you a plan that is not discreditable to the national taste, while at the same time it will serve highly useful and important national objects, and by adopting which we avoid long delays, infinite vexations, endless disputes, public discredit, and even an expendi ture of public money two, three, or four times greater than the sum now asked. (Cheers.) The right hon. gentle man concluded by proposing a vote for £105,000. In an swer to Lord Elcho, the right hon, gentleman said that Messrs. Kelk and Lucas had offered to hoop the building in proper repair for three years, for a payment of £2,000 do wn, and £1,500 a year for the three years. In answer to Mr. Coningham, he also stated that Professor Owen most em phatically and warmly approved of the interior of the build ing towards the north for the natural history collection of the British Museum, that being the point where the Govern ment proposed to place it. Lord ELCHO rose to move the rejection of the vote for the purchase of the International building at Kensington Gore. In doing so, he said he was not surprised that the noble lord the member for Stamford had asked across the floor whether the Government intended or not to purchase the whole of this building, for there had been so many changes on the part of the Government to ►this vote, that he should like to know how the question stood. It now appeared that the Government did intend to purchase the whole of the building, and they asked for a sum of ;£BO,OOO for that purpose. They now proposed to keep the picture gallery and the part of the building in the rear towards the Horticultural Gardens. The Government, to use a military phrase, had changed their front. They had modified their vote, and now asked the house to treat the question simply as a matter of detail, and to sweep away from consideration the report of Mr. Hunt on the state and condition of the building. He objected to take the advice of his:right hon. friend without the estimate of Mr. Hunt. He asked the house to refuse the proposal on the ground that, whether the whole or part of the building was taken, it was objec tionable on the score of sound sense, sound economy, and good taste. He wished to guard himself from being sup posed to be opposed to the promotion of science and art. He had voted for the purchase of the land, because he thought it a good bargain; but the observations which had fallen from the Chancellor of the Exchequer had given a totally different colouring even to that vote. That land at £5,000 an acre might be dearer than at £50,000 per acre, if its title obliged them to purchase this building, or to run the chance of an action to get rid of it legally. He believed, however, both public opinion and common law would force the con tractors to clear away the building, and that it by no means followed, because they purchased the land, therefore they were to purchase the building upon it, or that it would be economical or wise to do so. On what grounds were they recommended to purchase it. Was it on account of beauty ? So far from that, it was only by a liberal use of the trowel and cement that it could be made tolerably pleasing to the eye. As regarded its fitness, it was to be turned to a pur pose for which it was not originally designed; and, as re garded its solidity, they had reports of surveyors by which it appeared that the building required to be wholly renewed from skylight to floors, and even beneath, for it was proposed to lay beneath the floors 12 inches of concrete. He did not think it could possibly be economy to maintain such a build - ing as that. The hon. member quoted at some length from the report of Mr. Hunt, to show the nature of the renewals which would be required; said that the report of Mr. Mal lett, which had been referred to on a previous occasion by the hon. member for Galway, was not so condemnatory of the building as that of Mr. Hunt; and then, referring to the petition of the Institute of British Architects, vindi cated the claim of the opinion of that body to be considered in connection with this matter. Quoting the opinion of a committee of that body which had condemned this Exhibi tion as unfit to be rendered permanent, he proceeded to read other portions condemning sepecifically the plan proposed by the Government for rendering the picture galleries avail able. After the report of Mr. Hunt and the opinion of the Institute of British Architects, he did not know whether the house would be rein of opinion that the building was so great a bargain. Had ever a case been heard ofa private individual who had invested £BO in an old tumble-down house, with the intention of spending on that house, not to improve and beautify it, but /imply to make it waterproof and habitable, a sum in the pflportion of £2 80 ? Yet that, multiplying the sums by one thousand, was what the right hon. gentle man the Chancellor of the Exchequer now proposed. He could not held thieking that there was something more be hind the proposal han the public had yet heard of. (Hear.) The truth was, the whole thing was a " plant"—(laughter) and the real object was to remove the National Gallery to Brompton. (Hear,hear.) He was sure the public would not approve of such a fesign, and he hoped the house would likewise refuse to tanction it. There was, however, another question which thy had to consider, and it was the !more important that it involved a principle—he meant what should guide then: in the matter of decoration. He objected to all sham decoreion, and he was supported by one of the first authorities inarchitecture, Mr. Ruskin, who described it as an " impositon, a vulgarity, an impertinence, and a sin." (Hear, bee%) Despite of that, the Government pro posed to roughcoa the walls of the building with falsehood, and to imitate the }recess which a well-known lady, Madame Rachel, applied tothe human face. (Laughter.) She covered the cheeks of dilapidated and questionable beauties with a substance which vas said to make them beautiful for ever. The noble lord it the head of the Government and the Chancellor of the Exchequer now stood before the country as the Madame Rachels of architecture—(laughter)—for they proposed to cover the building with a composition which was to hay( a similar effect. There was, however, this difference bettreen them. Madame Rachel's price was, he believed, £l,OO. He had never been called upon to pay it hiwself—(laughter)—but he' hoped if there were any hon. member in the house Who had paid it, he would rise and state to the house the exact sum. (Laughter.) He believed, , however, that Madame Rachel's price was as he bad stated, but there was this difference between her system and that of the noble lord and his right hot; friend : her compo3i tion cost £l,OOO, but lasted for ever ; theirs would cost £45,000, and would last, not for ever, but only for a mason. (Hear, hear.) The argument of the noble lord was that it would be in company with other stucculmildings. (Laugh ter.) But would it ? On the contrary, he was aware that it was the intention of the Marquis of Westminster', when his leases fell in, to sweep away the Whole of Grosvenor place, and to rebuild it with stone and matble. (Hear.) Hon, members need not be alarmed at the intelligence. The rents would not be much increased—(laughter)—for he believed that the difference between the cost of brick and more durable materials in such structures was not more than 5 per cent. Every influence had been brought to bear to thrust the vote down the throat ~f the house. Balls, concerts, and bazaars had been held in the building to make it popular. He did not object to the bazaar for the benefit of Incurables, because it was germane to the place—(laugh ter)—but it was a remarkable fact that, in the case of the old Exhibition building of 1851, the contractors were posi tively restrained by legal injunction from allowing anything of the kind to take place within its walls. In conclusion, the noble lord maintained that the rejection of the vote in no way involved disrespect to the memory of the Prince Consort, whose published speeches constituted a monument more enduring and remarkable than any which could be raised to his name by the country or the house, and called on the committee to reject the proposition for the purchase of a building which was condemned alike by private, by public, and by professional opinion. (Hear, hear.) Mr TITE explained that Mr. Mallett had been employed in connection with the iron work, and repudiated the idea that there was any dirty jealousy in the minds of the gene ral body of architects against Capt. Fowke. The Council of Architects had, however, almost unanimously condemned the building, and there was a unanimous feeling in the ar tistic world against its remaining. Mr. BENTINCK said there was one peculiarity about the House of Commons—they were very regular in their meals. (About 200 members had just retired in a body to dinner.) He condemned the building generally as a vast monument of extravagance and ugliness, and supported Mr. Mallett's opinion of it entirely. It had been thrown out as a reproach against Mr. Mallett that he had had nothing to do with the erection of the Houses of Parliament; but if there was one thing more than another that ought to commend Mr. Mallett's judgment as an architect, it was that he had nu connection with the greatest mass of extravagance, bad taste, and inconvenience that ever was put together. (Hear, hear.) If they once sanctioned the purchase of the building, no one could say what would be the expense they would ultimately be called upon to incur to carry out the proposed scheme. It was one of the most extravagant and one of the most unjustifiable proposals that was ever made to the house, and he hoped it would be re jected. What, he asked, would the operatives in the North say to this expenditur, when such small assistance was offered to them, but that it was a wasteful expenditure of money, and that the sympathy that had been expressed for their distress was simulated ? Sir J. SHELLEY opposed the vote. He dreaded the expense they would be put to if they purchased the build ing, by men of taste who would be called in to ornament the structure. With the best wish to support the institu tion at South Kensington, he believed that he should best be doing his duty to the public by giving his vote to raze the building to the ground. Mr. COWPER said that what the right hon. gentleman the Chancellor of the Exchequer had said about the con tract did not appear to be thoroughly understood. The commissioners of the Exhibition of 1851, who were the pro prietors of the land, had covenanted with the commissioners of the Exhibition of 1862 that the land should be cleared within six months after the conclusion of the Exhibition, and they naturally assumed that some legal document had been signed by the contractors in their engagements with the committee of the Exhibition of 1862, to give force to that covenant; and it was only recently that it was dis covered that the commissioners of 1862 had failed to obtain any covenant to bind the contractors as to time. If the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been aware of that fact at the time of proposing the vote, he would have mentioned it. The noble lord (Lord Elcho) had made an able speech in moving the rejection of the vote ; but he had failed to grapple with the question put before the committee by the Chancellor of the Exchequer. That proposal only in volved an expenditure of £290,000, and the retention of those portions of the building which were permanent, as distin guished from those which were of a temporary character, for the purposes of the British and Patent Museums, leav ing for future consideration the question how the remaining portion of the land should be disposed of. The estimate of Mr. Hunt had only been put before the house to afford the information of what would be the maximum expense if the whole building were made permanent and substantial. Mr. Hunt had based his estimate on the cost of covering the front with stucco, but that would not preclude the use, if the house should think fit, of bricks, terracotta tiles, or earthenware. If the house should resolve to use Portland stone, no one would be better pleased than he should; but that was a question in no way involved in the present vote. He denied there was any intention to transfer the pictures from the National Gallery to the new building at Kensing ton-gore, and went into details to show that in point of eco nomy the proposition of the Government was the best which could be proposed for giving the accommodation required for the British and Patent Museums. Mr. C. BENTINCK said that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer and the right hon. gentleman who had just sat down, had told the committee that Government wished to treat this matter as one of business ; but of all unbusinesslike proceedings this was the most so. They had just heard from the First Commissioner of Works that the House of Commons had bought a property with a bad title. (Mr. Cowper dis sented.) It was clear to him that there was a flaw in the title. The purchase had been made by the house in ignorance of that, or it certainly would not have bought the property. That opened the question as to the impression on the minds of the commissioners of 1862 with regard to the ultimate desti nation of the building. It was a matter of surprise to him that this important question had been delayed to so late a period of the session. There appeared to be an intention on the part of the commissioners that the building should be come the property of the nation ; but he trusted that was not the intention of the House of Commons. The. hon gen tleman then complained of the silence of the Treasury bench, but he was not surprised at it, for, whenever they had a bad case, they always declined to speak. It was only by driblets that the house got any information at all on the subject. He had no doubt that Captain Fowke at all events knew that the building was to be permanent—(hear, hear) -- and, if so, they were entitled to ask for what purpose it was intended. To what use were they going to apply the building ? for it was evident the Patent Museum scheme was only put forward to hoodwink the public. The British Museum only required five acres•-the miserable por trait gallery was now contained in three or four small rooms and everyone knew that the national collection of pictures could never be removed to Kensington. He gave his most cordial support to the amendment of his noble friend. Mr. F. DOULTON said it appeared to him that the oon duct of the Government in this matter had been, to say the least, very disingenuous. (Hear.) It was a very significant fact that they had not as yet been favoured with the opinions of any of the gentlenien on the front Opposition bench. (Hear.) Outside the house, however, it was rumoured that they were in complete accord with the Government. Well, if that wet e so, it was not the first time, for whenever a great abuse was to be perpetrated the front benches were usually in agreement. Lord H. LENNOX said he should vote for the proposi tion of the Government, because he believed if they did not arrange the matter now they would continue, so far as re garded their art and scientific institutions. in a state of chronic confusion and congestion. (Hear, hear.) Mr. GREGORY opposed the vote, and in doing so com plained of the attack which the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made on Mr. Mallett. It was true that Mr. Mallett had written a work on earthquakes—(laughter)—but it was as illiberal to decry his engineering ability on that ground as it would be to object to the right hon. gentleman's finan cial ability because he had written a book on theology— (laughter)—or published profound theories about Homer. (Hear, and laughter ) He believed that the spirit of stucco was one of the characteristic credos of the Kensington School, and if they were to assent to the proposal of Govern ment they would be inaugurating a reign of stucco. Sir S. NORTHCOTE said the discussion had gone beyond the limits of a business-like debate, owing to the Chancellor of the Exchequer having been the first to depart from the question at issue. He charged the Government with not having brought forward a clear, distinct, and defi nite proposition in reference to this matter ; and after re ferring to the defeat of the Government proposition last year for the re-arrangement of the British Museum, he condemned the course pursued by the Government this session in dividing the vote, whick prevented the subject from being then properly sifted, or discussed in such a manner as its importance demanded. Great fault was also to be found with the Government for withholding from the knowledge of the House the fact that, though they had purchased the land, they were at the mercy of the contractors when they would give it up to the country ; and the want of information on what was to be the future proceedings of the Government rendered it impossible for hon. members to come to a satisfactory divi sion on the matter. He observed that the opposition to the vote was based on different objections, and some of those who did so did it, not on the grounds of true economy, but on the ground of beauty and ornamentation, which in reality meant greater expense, rather than not being in ac cordance with national taste. (Hear, hear, and No, no.) He cautioned true economists how they allied themselves on this occasion with those who would lead them in future years into great and extravagant expense. (Hear, hear.) A great injustice had been done to Captain Fowke by the noble lord (Elcho) in comparing the stuccoing of the building to the painting by Mdme. Rachel, and thereby impute to him what he disclaimed—viz., that he was an advocate for stucco. (Crices of Divide, divide.) He would not weary the house much longer, but his object was to move an amendu ent—(cries of Move, move)—but it was necessary to give some explanation before doing so. (Cries of Oh, oh, Divide, and Move.) The site had been obtained on favourable and reasonable terms— (loud cries of Divide from both sides of the house, and, as the hon. member could not be heard, he moved that the Chairman report progress, whieh announcement was re ceived with cheers,) Mr. LO WE rose to give certain explanations to the hon. member for Taunton, but he was received with such loud cries of Order and Divide, that he was iraudible. Mr. DISRAELI, who next attempted to speak, was received in a similar manner by his own immediate sup porters, as well as the more impatient on the Ministerial side of the house. There were also loud cries for Mr. Bernal o,borne and "Divide," mingled with other mani festations of displeasure. The Chairman in vain called for order, and Mr. Disraeli was obliged to resume his seat with out being heard. The question for reporting progress was put and nega tived amidst the confusion that prevailed. Lord 13., CECIL succeeded in gaining a few moments of attention, during which he implored the committee to con duct themselves in a more orderly manner and not interrupt the discussion of what ha characterised as an unpopular vote. • The CHAIRMAN,—The question is that I report progress. Mr. DISRAELI said—Mr. Massey, I desired, with hu • nullity, to offer the house advice, because I thought they were pursuing a course which they would afterwards regret. I was not present on a previous occasion, and therefore I was not responsible for the course which the house then adopted, and for the precipitation with which it may have acted. What I wish to point out to the committee at this moment is the remarkable position in which they may unwittingly place themselves, The Government have brought forward a motion of considerable importance ; no member on this bench has spoken, though we have been challenged to do so; the hon. member for Stamford was explaining his views, and was about to offer an amendment of considerable moment—he was about to propose that the question should be sent before a select committee, before which the question might be fully discussed. (Cries of " No, no," and " Divide, divide.") After a few words from Sir H. WILLOUGHBY, which were wholly inaudible in the gallery, Mr. DISRAELI said he did not intend to give the amendment of his right hon. friend accurately. It was, however, in perfect unison with the forms of the house. Sir R. CLIFTON said sufficient time had been devoted to the discussion, and suggested that the committee should at once come to a conclusion on the vote. The motion to report progress was then negatived with out a division. Sir S. NORTHCOTE said the amendment he now wished to propose was that the vote be reduced by the sum Of £25,000. That would give an opportunity for a select com mittee to decide on the question of the site: Mr. HENLEY objected to both the proposition of the Government and the amendment, as both pledged the house to an indefinite expenditure to which he could see neither limit nor end. By rejecting both it would give time to the Government to consider the whole question maturely, and bring forward well-digested plans and esti mates for the employment of all the land. At present it had been put before the house in so unsatisfactory a man ner, that they were not in a position to come to a fair judg ment. The hon. member complained, too, that the Govern ment had appeared to have practised some concealment on the house in regard to purchasing the land. Sir S. M. PM 0 next, amid loud cries of "Divide," ad dressed a few words to the committee, which did not reach the gallery. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then rose to say a few words in reply. He first suggested, as a matter of general convenience, that the amendment should be with drawn, and then proceeded to deny that any concealment had been practised in regard to the purchase of the land. He had himself stated that it was not likely that possession of the land would be obtained in less than two years. What he said was that, even with a contract, it would be very difficult to get possession of the land in 1864. He never meant to say that Messrs. Kelk and Lucas would make a vexatious exercise of their power; what he said was that, like men of business, those gentlemen would simply endea vour to obtain the best market for their materials. The right hon. gentleman opposite said the Government had no proposal of a clear and distinct character to offer. He main tained, however, that their proposal was perfectly plain and distinct. They proposed to deal with four and a half acres of this land, and to apply the money asked for to that land, reserving all question as to the remaining 12} acres for future consideration. That would involve no pledge whatever, and if it was determined that the building on the 12t acres should be removed, it could be removed, and a considerable sum would be received for the value of the land. Sir S. NORTHCOTE then announced that he with drew his amendment, reserving to himself, however, power to renew it at a future stage in case the vote were now carried. The committee then divided, and when, after the usual interval, the tellers approached the table, and the assist ant clerk was seen to hand the paper on which the num bers were inscribed to Lord Elcho, who, with Mr. Gre gory, acted as teller for the opponents of the vote, there was a general burst of cheering, which was renewed with redoubled vigour when the result was proclaimed as follows: Ayes Noes .. 287 Majority against the vote .. -166 The house then resumed. ELECTION PETITIONS BILL. On the order for going into committee on this bill, Mr. HODGSON moved that the bill be committed that day six months ; and after a long discussion the amend ment was accepted without a division, and so the bill was lost. _ _ The amendments to the Vaccination (Scotland) Bill were considered and agreed to. The Lords' Amendments to the Salmon Fisheries (Scot land) Act Continuance Bill were considered and agreed to. The Public Works and Fisheries Acts Amendment Bill was read a second time. The Poor Law Board Continuance Bill and the Loan Societies Bill were read a third time and passed. The Militia Ballots Suspension Bill passed through com- mittee. The Lords' amendments to the Security from Violence Bill were considered and agreed to. The Stipendiary Magistrates Bill, as amended, was con sidered REFRESHMENT ROOMS (HOUSE OF COMMONS). Colonel FRENCH called attention to the report of the Kitchen and Refreshment Rooms committee, and moved that the enlargement of the dining rooms should be carried into effect. Mr. AYRTON moved that the debate be adjourned. The house divided. The numbers were— Ayes Noes Majority The debate was then adjourned, WESIMINSTER NEW PALACE APPROACHES. On Mr, Tite's proceeding to nominate the select com mittee on this subject, An How. MEMBER moved that the house be counted, and there not being forty members present, the louse ad journed at ten minutes to two o'clock, SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. WORCESTER SUMYIEK7 MEETING.—THURSDAY A Handicap Plate of 50 soya, for all ages; winners extra. About a mile. Mr. Wadlow's Flesraore, 4 yrs, Bst (Challoner) 1 Mr. Lincoln's Queen of Clubs, 3 yrs, 7st ..(Wiiliamson) 2 Mr. Noble's Teddy, 6 yrs, Bst 121 b (Speight) 3 Mr. Andrews's Miss Ilawthorne, 4 yra, 7st 21b (Maidment) 4 The following also ran .—Violet, Foi de Gras, Merry Widow, Gordian Knot, Wildman, Madame Walton, and Betting-2 to 1 agst Flexmore, sto 1 agst Violet, 7to 1 each agst Queen of Clubs and Merry Widow, and 8 to 1 agst Lufra. Flexmore for a quarter of a mile led the way, and was then pulled into the third place, being preceded by Miss Hawthorne and Violet, Queen of Clubs following the favourite to the turn into the straight, where Teddy came to the front. At the distance Flexmore joined Teddy and Queen of Clubs. Half-way up the distance Teddy gave way, and after an interesting race with the other pair the favourite won by a head. Teddy was a bad third, and Miss Hawthorn close was fourth. Foi de Gras was [fifth. The last two were Wildman and Merry Widow. The Trial Handicap of five sovs each, with 30 added ; for all ages ; winners extra. About a mile, 7 subs. Mr. Rochester's Anaticulus, 3 yrs, 6st 41b (A. Woodhouse) 1 Gen. Shirley's Misfire, 4 yrs, 7st 51b (Gray) 2 Mr. Walker a Colonel Crockett, 5 yrs, 7st 61b (Tomlinson) 3 Mr. T. Golby's Underthe Cloud; 3 yrs, sst 71b (H. Clark) 4 Betting-5 to 4 agst Misfire, 7to 4 agst Anaticulus, and 3to 1 agst Colonel Crockett. After proceeding about 200 yards Colonel Crockett went to the front, followed by Mis fire and Anaticulus to the extreme turn, where Under the Cloud, who had been running wide of :the rest, took third place. Approaching the straight Anaticulus took up the running, and with Misfire and Colonel Crockett in close attendance, ran a fine race home, Anaticulus finally win ning by half a length. A head separated the second and third. Under the Cloud, who was beaten upon entering the straight, cantered in some distance behind the first three. The Croome Stakes of 15 sous each, 5 ft, with 100 added ; a handicap for all ages; winners extra. About three- quarters of a mile. 21 subs. Lord Coventry's Umpire (bred in America), 6 yrs, 9st (J. Adams) 1 Mr. Pane's Olitipa filly, 2 yrs, sst 71b.. (J. Grimshaw) 2 Mr. T. Hughes's Juliet, aged, 7st 81b (Drew) 3 Lord Uxbridge's Muffler, 3 yrs, 6st 21b (Thomas) 4 Betting-11 to Ben Umpire, 3to 1 agst Juliet, and sto 1 agst the Olitipa filly. One break away was followed by an even start, but Um pire, in a few strides, showed in front of Juliet, who was succeeded by the Olitipa filly and Muffler to the stand, where the Olitipa filly took second place, but was unable to reach Umpire, who won in a common canter by two lengths. Juliet was beaten a length from the Olitipa filly, and Muffler was a bad fourth, A Sweepstakes of 10 soya each, with 100 added, for. 2•yr» olds; colts Bst 101 b, fillies, Bst 71b; winners extra. T.Y.C. 18 subs. Mr. W. Bone's Coup d'Etat, Bst 101 b (Hardcastle) I Mr. John Osborne's Prince Arthur, 9st 61b (Inc 101 b ex) (J. Osborne) 2 Lord Coventry's Salvioni, Bst 71b (J. Adams) 3 Mr. Rochester's Lady Fanny Cavendish, Bst 71b (A. Edwards) Mr. Madeleine's Duchess of Kent, Bst 71b (W. Woodhouse) 5 Mr. Harvey's Empress of Russia colt, Bst 101 b (E. Forster) 6 Betting-6 to 4on (ai the opening 7to 4 agst) Coup d'Etat, 5 to 1 agst Lady Fanny Cavendish, and 8 to 1 offered agst any other. At the second attempt they were capitally started, and in a few strides Coup d'Etat made play, followed by Lady Fanny Cavendish, Salvioni, and Duchess of Kent. Prince Arthur (who was caunoned against by Lady Fanny Ca vendish when the flag fell) brought up the rear to the dis tance, where he took second place, Coup d'Etat, however, maintained the front position to the end, and won by two lengths. Prince Arthur finished three lengths in ad vance of Salvioni, who beat Lady Fanny Cavendish by a length. _ _ The Worcestershire Stakes, a handicap of 10 sous each, 5 ft, and only 3 if declared, with 100 added, for 3-)r-o:de and upwards, winners extra. One mile and three fur— longs on the new course. 60 subs. Mr. Stephenson's Turn of Luck, 4 yrs, 7st 41b (E. Fester) 1 Mr. R. C. Naylor's (lure Annie, 6 yrs, 7st 41b (T. French) 2 Mr. Capel's Warminster, 4 yrs, 7st 111 b ..(Clement) 3 Mr. Lincoln's Fluke, 3 yrs, Est 21b (Williamson) Mr. George Payne's Merry Maid, 4 yrs, 6st 71b (J. Grimshaw) 5 Shepherdess, Everlasting, and Church Militant also ray. Betting-9 to 4 agst Chere Arnie, 100 to 30 agst Tutu of Luck, 5 to 1 egg Merry Maid, and 6 to 1 agst War minster. . Atter proceeding a few hundred yards Church Militant went to the front, followed by Warminster and Chere Arnie, until within half a mile of home, where Church Militant ran wide in effecting a turn, and suddenly dropped into the rear. The lead was then left with Merry Maid, Chere Arnie going on second, and Turn of Luck and Warminster following close up. At the distance Merry Maid was beaten, and a fine race home with Turn of Luck, Chere Arnie, and Warminster ended in the defeat of the favourite by a head. Warminster was beaten a length from Chere Arnie. Fluke and Merry Maid beaten off, were fourth and fifth. The City Plate, a handicap of 50 sovs, for 3-yr-olds and up wards, winners extra. One mile and a quarter. Mr. Scott nd Mountain Buck, 3 yrs, 7st 21b .... (Noble) 1 Mr. Lincoln's Queen of Clubs, 3 yrs, Est 21b (Williamson) 2 Mr. W. Andrews's Miss Hawthorne, 4 yrs, Est 101 b (Maidment) 3 Mr. E. Williams's Overton, 5 yrs, 7st 101b..(Challoner) Whitehall and Foi de Gras also ran. Betting-7 to 4on Overton, sto 1 each agat Queen of Clubs and Mountain Buck, 6 to 1 agst Whitehall. Won by a length; a bad third. Whitehall bolted. The Madresfield Juvenile Stakes of 5 sovs each, with 30 added, for 2-yr-olds ; colts 9st, fillies and geldings Bst 101 b. Selling allowances. Half a mile. 5 subs. Lord Coventry's Bceotian, 7st (L4O) (Maidment) 1 Mr. Orme's Jessie colt, 7st (L4O) (Thomas) 2 Mr. Knight's Acceptance, 6st 101 b (car Est 131 b) (L 10) (Drew) 3 Mr. E. Buckley's Sir Watkin, 75t (X4O) .... (Whiteley) 4 Mr. Waller's Woman in Black, 7st (T. French) 5 Betting-2 to 1 each agst Beeotian and Sir Watkin, anti 11 to 4 agst Acceptance, who receded to 4 to 1 after several of the false starts. Bcootian made play throughout with the Jessie colt in close attendance ; Lord Coventry's colt winning by a neck, Acceptance a bad third. The winner was bought in for 200 guineas. BETTING ONI THE COURSE. ST. LEGER. 9 to 2 agst The Ranger (taken and offered) Bto 1 agst Queen Beitha (offered) 10 to 1 agot Lord Cliftien (take 11 to 1) LIVERPOOL CIF. 7 to 1 agst Joey Jones (taken) Bto 1 bar one (offered) GOODWOOD STARES. 7to 1 agst Knutsford (taken) 10 to 1 agst Anfield (taken and offered) THE DERBY. 33 to 1 agst Coup d'Etat 100 to 1 agst Prince Arthur (taken freely) NOTTINGHAM SUMMER MEETING. Acceptances for the Nottinghamshire Handicap. One mile and three quarters. 67 subs. The highest weight ac cepting being Bst 111 b, it has been raised to Bst 121 b, and the others in proportion : age at lb Adventurer .. 4. 8 12 Knutsford 5 8 0 Carisbrook .. 4 7 13 Prince Plausible .. 5 7 12 Deefoot. 5 7 11 Dulcibella . 6 / 9 Flirtation Brighton 4 7 9 My Mary Glenorchy 3 6 13 Pilot Bandage age st lb Oakapple . . 3 6 0 Brian Born 3 5 13 . ~. 3 5 12 Liston Erin-go-Bragh.... 3 5 11 Blithfield. .. 3 5 11 Muffler .. . 3 5 11 Airedale Joco Luna 3 5 8 Jack's Alive 3 5 8 Middlewatch 3 5 8 COUNTRY MARKETS. MANCHESTER-JULY 2. At our market this morning there was about an average attendance. For English wheat there was a dull demand, and is per qr cheaper, while American was offered at a reduction of 2d per 100 lb, with only a moderate business. Oats and oatmeal met a slow sale, at 6d per load lower in value. Flour in limited request, fresh sorts being 6d under the rates of last week. Indian corn also receded 64 per.qr, Beans were the turn in favour of sellers, BIRMINGHAM-JULY 2, English wheat was sold at 48s to 66s for white, and 40s to 60s per 36 stone for red, Barley, new malting, 32s to 42s per qr ; grinding, 24s to 28s Oats, old, 24s to 30e per 30 stone; Irish, 22s to 255. Beans, 38s to 44kper qr. Peas, 36s to 44$ per 36 stone. EDINBURGH GRAIN-JULY 1. A fair supply of farmers' wheat to-day, which met a slow sale at about the prices of last week. Barley in fair demand, at full prices. Beans and oats met a dull sale. W heat on the top 2s 6d down average Os Mup Barley on the top 2s 3d up. . ...... average Os Id down. Oats on the top Os 9d up average Os 9d down. Beans on the top Os 6d up.. _ays;:rallddges4Blo; qrsO up. Total Supply and Sales. Wheat ...1048 qrs Barley... 242 qrs Sold 156 qrs Oats Beans l6 qrs Flour sells as follows :—Whites, 42a Od ; extras, 40s Od superfine, 38s Od ; fine, 36s Od. CORK-JULY 1. The following were the quotations this morning :—Red wheat, 98 9d to —s 0.1; white, 10s 3d to —s Od , barley, 68 Od to Os Od ; oats, 9s Od to Os Od. ; black do., 7s 2d to Os Od. DERBY SMITHFIELD-JUNE 30. A better supply of fat beasts to-day, the best quality of which was in dema n d, an d l a st week's prices were easily obtained ; inferior sorts more difficult to sell. The num bFr of sheep and lambs in the pens was a fair average. Fat pigs were again in large supply. Fat and store calvea were in limited supply, and a heavy sale. Beet Mutton ... 6d to 7d Pork Lamb 9d to —d Rough fat, 3s 9d per stoup. Hides, 3d to 41d; calf skins. 6d to 6d. [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Holloway ' s Pills.—When formid able fevers and other contagious complaints are prevalent Holloway's purifying pills are the best correctives of the system, and the surest cleansers of the blood. No one should permit any disordered action to continue where it can be so easily rectified by these pills ; even one day's delay may bring bitter cause to rue that slight neglect. There can arisit DO. danger from taking Holloway's medi cine, and no difficulty can occur in administering it to the young and delicate ; clear and definite instructions envelope each box. To feel that the body is out of order is sufficient warranty for taking these pills, which will prevent or arrest diseases, even when doubtful, complicated, or obscure. Births. KING.—On the 2d inst., at 37, Seymour-street, Mrs. Henry King, of a daughter. NORTON.—On the Ist inst., at 7, Greon-street, Grosvenor. square, the wife of R. T. Lowndes Norton, Captain Life Guards, of a son. TRELAWNY.—On the Ist inst., at 30, Hertford-street, May. fair, Mrs. Horace Trelawny, of a daughter. WEHREN.---011 the 28th ult., at Dresden, the Baroness von Wehren, of a daughter. Marriages. AVELING--.CLIFFORD.—On the 2d inst., at St. Mary's, Stoke Newington, Stephen Thomas Aveling, Esq., of Rochester, to Mary, eldest daughter of the Rev. R. S. Clifford, M.A., of St. Mary's, Norton Folgate. . .... LEARBY—BAZETT.—On the Ist inst., at St. Mary's, Read. ing, P. N. Leakey, Esq., of Corpus Christi College, Cam bridge 8.A,, to Mary, elder daughter of Lieut.-Colonel Bazett , of Springfield, Reading. Deaths. WEHunN,—On the 29th ult., at Dresden, Frances, Baroness von Wehren, aged 22. HILL —On the 30th ult., Mr. Peter Hill, of the Stock Ex. change, and of Loughton, aged 43. HOLMES.—On the 29th ult., at Bagneres de Bigorre, S. France, G. C. H. Holmes, Esq., late of the 67th Regt., aged 23. IRELAND.—On the 2d inst., at Upper Harley-street, Thoa, James Ireland, Esq., of Ousden Hall, Suffolk, a Dep, lieut. for the county, aged 71. PENNINGTON.—On the 30th ult., at Clapham-common, the Rev. Philip Pennington/ M.A., aged 39. WARNER.—On the 2d inst., at 13, Northumberland -street, Strand, Letitia, wife of Mr. James Warner. London : Printed and Published by WILLIAM ANDREWS, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at TUE SUN Office, No. 112 Strand, in the Precinct of the .`iavoy, in the County o Kidelleaex,— Friday, July 3, 186.3. T HE ICeorpors Liabilil his Deposit to exce months sequeni P. M. Ila Major Be Frederick Club. Prank Ca T. Little, J. Stever The ET This C Co3oa-N granted 1 The /31. improve( great du nianut ac The - ; "er the 4en it :laz e an virtue 1 The . of fibre wil Patent r eornplaii nary me patent not onl3 The P to a lim The ID purehas and for The profits quired i will be months The fi 60 Loot per ket we 20 Loon of 1 Rent, r 1n Wages 3 Hors E‘ ptn Viar Resew Balam eq If ni full. Spec seen a prospE To filo Gen being Cocoa allot I numb on th And I called Mr. Ree the si per si Comp It ii entlr , won] payat Ti Depc No lesl Intel for ne, Mem an Amy Jam Co J. 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