The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-22 00:00:00

~„e t r A he Heertlare to do than with the • t- of v It e individuals. proper private e r wof h' t " . ,tr labou:ragwilht Nokl e Lord had cast upon tire Commi . tee het her, A to t", f . ci La n d on c" Most occupy two years. The Corporation yte. a- , t h e % s i n u . alone must occupy several weeks. Either, then, d bay 4 , 44 1 1, 7 y he nude h ast i ly, gild be ail , " h w or no progress would be subient.,, w o u ld enable the House to legislate upon t' e Af r• year. t)flipani:vAßßUßTON sail that it was clear those oiler s a nu Inneer traded and exercised all the pri- If t h e ce nt' dutie s of provincial municipal Corporations.. ilinrltat:intnittee would inquire into their transactions, the I.n obtained obtained with respect to the Corporation of t he 4, 01 be most imperfoct. At any rate, he hoped 4016. talon of the House would nothe rescinded without , ATAW for med , s a i d that the Committee was not fairly sr, , a ; iit 'nr six -sevenths of them held their hands up th e ,e°ePorationt. These were the Irish Members tele"' ittnittee, and six of them had pledged them. o ne ' hilt ? i,tins t all corporate privileges, and only eated rielf• who wished to correct al:usee, but preserve r l'Pointm ghb. . - -(Cheers.) He regretted he bad been A n t ';'' a member of the Committee. tra s "N. 141:arata defended the Committee, which, he Sir R' „‘ vo uld impa rt i a ll y di sc h arge i ts d uty. Pireeas sYY YAN said n o intimation had yet been t() what th e C ommittee was to report upon. He elf toy to whit whether the Committee was to confine reesd auPuintirig out a b uses , or w h et h er i t was to recom• 4 'itt ee }' ch ange in the corporation system. The Corn s t ( 7,nuld not have the e power to examine the muni , a corporati on. A °lt' p , t eeti Up,BER C ROMBY said, if there were any gentle- Nr onti n the C omm i ttee whose opinions went to the te. ''; 11 of all corporations, he certainly was not one of flter i d el na thought that municipal corporations were I h b th e cotito promote peace, order, and good government e n trY, and, if those objects could be forwarded ne,t, onetitutional change in the system of corpora . vot ir i at ce House would be only doing its duty in endea to th e tei accomplish so important a task. With respect t ete e , t ition, it would certainly he absurd to suppose th at " t nniittee could examine all the accounts of a] t he ditt r ationa in England, Scotland, and Ireland ; but ai c . ul tY that he felt was, lest the examination of the I : ll a .'te r o til l " of Londo n might be impeded, if it were tOr 4t i at the Committee had no power to examine into tttcnkil-el Corporations.l rs t res o ,sPERCEVAL complained of the disproportion aa , tt i tt `ue Irish Members of different sentiments on the 7,Pes, c i e ' -- - , 0 large a majority heing those who were I;h„.,t° R o any length in the destruction of corpora ..-"uer the name of improvement. Petiti on AT, was laid o n th e t a bl e . - regeind ga v e OOD notice that he should to-m orro w lye the orr. tA ,ELECTION PETITIONS. tlrdeo ut s "'NEB. intimated, that in th e cases o f th e 4 s o nue election and the South a mpt on election more thirdfor 4,tition had b een p resen t e d, which had been tbtks deco days. It would be necessary to alter 1 0 f e decn of one Committee might neutralise a aoth e k w . L , r Upon the same election. ''Cre f i n th 4 . HORP gave notice that he would submit a 'uliect this day. Fi ki t% SL A PUBLIC HEAL fH. tf yet C' , fn "EY rose for the purp ose o f mov i ng t h at a to lettirin Ni ttee be app o i n t e d t o cons id er t h e b est means rh o ,,, f or g o Pen places in the neighbourhood of great f Ol the tithe healthful exercise of the p,;pulation. To toyer 4 dition of the population of the country at tri o Ptri od s, and at the present time, he should read e t 4 p, e t' from the population returns. These t4 ' that d • tes t. Y th e i du rin g the first ten years of the present qtei,'ilti s i„"rease of the population had been .15,4 per ith3tt ie lg the second ten years 171 per cent., and in4 se h eeri ast ten ears—namely, from 1821 to 1531 at again 151 per cent. The increase in the Peo,te ent c ne during the same three periods, had been 1 114 44 tr 0 ," 5 for the first ten years, 21 per cent. for the liel h t t :tel ie ; 49 , and 20 per cent. for the last ten years. Ye. e t er, during the same three periods, the increase ra i in th e ;as k 0 proportion of 22 per cent. fur the first ten is tl for th a t cent. for the second ten yea's, and 47 per toOtly t e i l ast ten years. An increase had taken place I let 4l l kiiti e Same proportion in all the populous e re y ea in the kingdom, so, that taking the 4 . 4 15 r„nB from 1800 to 1831, there was an in elaoPer cu ' 4. enuntiea of 30 per cent., in the metropolis t4 tv b4 Dtt e „ 4t *, in ten of the largest manufacturing towns to fflet', and i n t h ree o f th e L ieges ' manu f actur i ng t Le ° Per c ent . At the same time it was gratify ); Y th. t he b e n chances of life were better now than t aitei: i (le att e4 formerly. From 1700 to 1780, the ave 41C o was lin37 : f rom 1780 t o 1790 , i t was "' 1790 to 1810, it was 1 in 54 ; and from 9 , it was lin 60. All this had been the Oar ed habits of living, and improvements in id science. From these fan's the most im. might be drawn. Allowing for the natio n of several large classes of the corn- Peasantry of the South of England, for in ' hand -loom weavers—the chances of life than formerly. Then we came to this sin the fifteen years that had elapsed ther e had been an increase of twenty ,in the population of the country ; and, init., there had been a great improve health. It had always been held of the population and the in at the same time, gave a proof of the ,!sponding degree, of the capital of the rout saying one word of the decrease of th e peace, there would be a relief afforded, Collected would be spread over a larger should now state the alteration which in the relative situations of the different ' nt rY. One-third of the working population 'ad been employed at the beginning of the in manufactures, and two-thirds in 4. • At the present moment those pro exactly reversed ; a nd y et , a t t h e same 'le, the health of the population had been 'ing shown the increase in these manufac general!y, he shou ld now say one word as numbers in the towns themselves. At than working people had more e x erc i se i n ' t an at present. Many of them, such as ' e r , , formerly lived at a distance from their S t now their labours had been changed for Power-loom; so that 100 or 200 of them 12regated together. Not only ha that ac e, but persons were taken at an earlier ‘; and without advert" -g at large to the actory Employment, he might mention ', some of them under ten years of age, 1.1 0 "6 ho urs a day. To such persons he "e ought to afford the means of healthful 'e day of rest arrived. At present they He should proceed to refer now, in to the state of the metropolis. At this (4 0 tsi: re od, i a greater number of inhabitants than any to be .00 0 1 I to had ever possessed. Within a circle of ght peso St. Paul's, there were no less than rrege °ta n Or Mi te ins, and the population of the town itself be tv"e r 4 4,, t1 th e 4a , Million and a half. In that population did °° lo ll l ?'. t i , I titn' tl bs on tl eirest and the poorest men, whose wealth wa s r'oid,ll4 s, 0i iv () ''erpassed by that of any other men, in ley °snot°, taL le ratj s tev er, and the most wretched outcasts, e cun ep re ; ei ) ,` Fondition am not equalled by the poor it of r o 'l6 4 4 ttl Yl a Eu C ' a o as a ;, p„, 4 rope. e poet owpir, ye rs COP 113 tt , this town surrounded with its villas, om ittee or 'ts i . v , he foi, ti tti tti el ed the e with his belt of beads." It no , V I , It b Y ti tl ' billy com parison. It had three large parks, i ' ntni t oe" 1 1 ' . ‘te t ie d t o t W ,a B open, while the other two were ` - ' ° cor por r t ' v ill e e l trrOiler Public.. These did not afford suffi cal t 41, kf il i h e exercise of the population. o r 14: 14 8 to the benevolent mind to witness pori: i t ido , be (Yea ItV,ANt‘,l,l:l p a ths , whose labours confined them to a ° P' w oul d o'4 aoe t tk, i. t . th e aPs a heated room, during the week, lan fset' 4 , 4 ,o':,:tsc ns,nwded city to enjoy the benefit of the. oa s 'r o la "at, sn'tle,ll" biro Its te rmination. His humble abilities f s it te tr, nt t he nui t: . ' make the impression upon the be., ." 0 , 3 • ip p l . ' l , ti J''t merited ; but he was certain to (, 1 1,0 Wu, ep n , °er e „i " • 9 01 , e , i jol o d n , v o tL t • ll4, ate! an earnest interest in fa o f O r d r o le 4etoNCopolial,,iter adverting to the facilities chefaf exerei'iairth 'ate h 4 1 N 't,.., 0 % , n consequence of the noble liver le for itfod I. ` ti, t tte t rb facilities had not been turned tooo iciP o i et sle c ti• Member called the attention of ro'' la '4l 'I I: 4 d, (. 4 some of the reat towns in the ;I,e te r ~,t' a Or t lV 4k IN th e 0 . . d i o t: / id t, t 4dt sp y 4 the Inflation in some of which i n the IN" „iey 44 4 % 4 e peti Lst thirty years. In not one the ~s' 0,.. ,1+ t o „,, 'Pace provided, where the ar nby 111 ek t}, "'g re • nted sot 1 ,,,t0 nr , 4 t create himself and his family ; P ro t.igek,tlo:l,i, e lentatives of those places, that the o .oe Je p t 't 't iCnUrnee to remedy the defect. To J rat e , ti Net, i i „ w v i a 0f , ti t o tc ,❑ the north deserved every wohetterdes tae ,tiee tiltntriodatien of the kind, he com ,wer bbd I, s hin6 3 ,1 :01 , 21N t ,to th •! , t e, u, . t'rpartof the kingdom with the • e -is t• ali , frete I e st ' as; tu r n Obse rving, that in the latter it hissot r ar rid, eare With f He then " r c' to . (0 4 Of ' 4 04 v re urn er. oe te a I nfvast increase of the cotton trade, h4 i i a ine ii ,( o , 14 he rest. He gave the following the r _ N 1, it raw cotton manufactured in 0' !t1 gjO, ~ * 4, rat Een il , b e T 1 4 41 14C013 1 1, 1)a(1 , '41 Y . Pounds. it h it .... ............. 5,000,000 h i to v iike a s t it o , t t e a , e , too ................. 86,000,000 paid .%1,,, 14 jas4 .................. 1 47,00000 h r ;.; ......... ... 250,000,000 ' ,1 11u, „ : e I . au 86 millions sterling ; t ding, and it kept in employ r 1101111 • deSi l , IN 90d* AcC iko god thus. eo ould have t i n e' 3 the q uto pion that ieSAthen be 3 , then the a. cep - L , , light lie "P i j • afterwar.' iirely star ' I e t: be a"r4 d 3inplan' e c hat , lei wb' e bi d role t; • b they o f thew 7 cor t6e e the t re wito L" been P irotested ;V e ep e c ase be he nil in tbac his che at House' tioe 'n at the tv: I have PreEee teas iti te" o l concerns 0 0 the C' T9 o f " bit t h , say , i nsider tc •• ( flear d , .n a g oo, t utd , coro" tleroe ° • , c , of all 0 r•th re'r e ot ' he bad tee c) Colvw_lt,l,olJ ipanY T intr he ro d •be c °°P o i lst itutipo t ts of tb e . r e , ,„. it 0P , 03PP c e ,:d Geo je iv en rise 3in ittee•frodr ,1 1 ) v- Mr. Oswald Lord Dalmeny 1,260,000 persons, or twenty-five times as many as were engaged in it 50 years ago. In Manchester only 167,000 persons were engaged in the cotton trade, and yet not one of them could find an open space in the town or its vici• nity, where he could enjoy the vulgar luxury of a walk. Upon these points, he especially directed the notice of the House to the work of Mr. Babbage, on the Economy of Manufactures. Other considerations besides the public health ought to induce Members to consider this subject very seriously ; but a comparison of the number of deaths in 10,000 persons, before they reached twenty years old, in various situation, would show how material such out. lets were to health. He made the subsequent statement upon this point In a healthy county In a marshy county In London 4,500 out of 10,000 In Carlisle 'i,6oo out of 10,000 In Preston, Stockport, Wigan, and Bury In Leeds the loss of life was still treater in proportion, being more than 6,000 out of every 10,000 persons before they reached the age of 21. This evidence showed how elem. !lately necessary it was that every thing possible should be don e to promote longevity. In London, it was notorious that there were many hundreds who knew what the country was only by description of the pastoral rur dities of Harnpst::-ad and 11 , glogate. He did not put it, however, merely on the ground of health. Of !Ate years there had been a growing disposition to decry the amusements of the poor, and wakes and fairs had been abolished for their immorality; but those who abolished them were bound to find a substitute, or to incur the suspicion of canting liy pocrisy.—(Cheers.) He was persuaded that if due outlets were provided, the consumption of spirits would decrease, and mechanics, instead of sotting in ale-houses, would re joice in the opportunity of enjoying the open air. Another argument he begged to address to the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, and it was this—that the consump tion of manufactured goods would be increased by enabling the lower orders of both sexes to display their neatness or their finery. A plain man, like himself, or like the Noble Lord (Althorp) were content, perhaps, to wear coats only because they kept them warm—(Hear, hear, and loud laughter)—but the greater part of man kind sported dress because they thought they appeared in it to advantage. The maid-servant and the mechanic's daughter took as much pride in displaying her rich ri bands as a Duchess her diamonds.—(Cheers.) But fathers and mothers were naturally happy in seeing their children well dressed, and in letting other people see them so. Hence public walks would be of great advantage to trade. It would be asked in what way he proposed to accomplish his object ? Let a Committee be appointed to consider the subject, to inquire and to report to the House the best means of securing the advantage he had described. This he could assure the House, that the expense would not be at all as great as some might imagine. A walk near a great town, like that in Christchurch Meadows, would neither he expensive to make nor to keep up. It might surround a manufacturing town like a Boulevard. In the vicinity of some places there was ample ground ap plicable to such a purpose. For instance, near Coventry there was a common which only wanted draining, and many Corporations possessed landed property which he hoped they would be willing to devote so usefully. But if these means failed, he would suggest that money might be advanced by Government on the security of local rates, as had been done for the construction of additional churches. If in those churches a provision was made of free seats for the poor, he saw no reason why free walks should not be also secured to therm—(Cheers.) He moved, " That a Select Committee be appointed to con sider the best means of securing open spaces in the vicinity of populous towns as public walks, calculated to promote the health and comfort of the inhabitants." Dr. BALDWIN seconded the motion, but recom mended that the Committee should be empowered first to inquire into the hest mode of promoting cleanliness in the dwellings of the poor, and of rendering more airy the situations they inhabited. It theta might follow rip the subject, by investigating the means of giving them open spaces for recreation. Mr. LAMB agreed that the subject of the health of the lower orders was of much importance to the Legislature, but be doubted whether much more might not be done to promote the object of the Hon. Member by Magistrates of towns, which he called local Legislatures, than by Par liament. At the same time, he had no objection to the trial of the experiment, and expressed the great pleasure it always gave him to see people who worked hard all the week innocently enjoying themselves on Sunday. He hoped that nothing would at any time be attempted to cloud the general sunshine of the cheerful Sabbath in this country. —(Much cheering, ) Mr. FAITHFUL cordially approved of the Committee. Mr. LENNARD took this opportunity of calling the attention of Ministers to the promise long since made, that the Regent's Park should be opened to the public. It was a lobe of the lungs of London ; and yet, although the timber had so much grown, there seemed no more chance than fitrmerly that the public would be admitted within the enclosures. This great advantage ought not to be lost because certain influential individuals had villas in the park.--(Cheers.) F. O'CONNOR feared no legislative enactment could be made to apply to any such evil, or produce any such rermdy as that in the contemplation of the Hon. Gentleman opposite. Mr. PORT — MAN said that, in his opinion, the stopping up of footpaths was one of the greatest causes of the want of sufficient opportunities of air and exe cise for the hum bler classes, and he hoped the House would not allow any opportunity to pass of doing all that legislation could do to prevent any further extension of that evil. He intended very soon to bring in a Bill, to which a clause miglit,with perfect propriety, be added, which would render the stop ping up of footpaths extremely difficult. Directing his observations more particularly to the Noble Lord at the head of the Woods and Forests Depirtuient, be expressed a hope that the time was not distant when the whole of the Regent's Park would he open to the public. Mr. D. W. HARVEY observed, that there were more notices of moti,ns for Enclosure Bills since the commence• ment of the present session than had ever been given in an equal length of time, but he had no reason to think any of them contained a specific provision to prevent the shutting up of footpaths. Mr. BENETT observed that most great towns had ad joining to them spaces of ground, not as the Hon. Msm ber proposed to enclose, or rather open, for the purposes i,f recreation. For his part he thought that it would be much better to introduce Into private Bills clauses for this purpose, than to make them the subject of a public mea sure. After a few words from Mr. EWING, Mr. SLANEY briefly replied, the rtr.tion was agreed to, and the Committee appointed; an Hon. Member, whose name we could not learn, having previously ob served, that before they incurred any considerable expense for providing amusement for the poor, they should take care to provide for them good and sufficient clothing, and to protect them from being overworked—if those were once procured, all other matters would follow of course. The following Members constitute the Committee : Mr. Slaney Mr. George William Wood Lord Viscount Duncanuon Mr. William Brougham Lord Viscount Morpeth Mr. Thomas Attwood Lord Viscount Sandon Mr. Mine Lord Oxmantou ii Sir John Hanmer Mr. Lamb Mr. Parker Mr. Tennyson Mr. Evans (Leicester) Sir Oswald Mosley Mr. Ewing Sir John Key Mr. Ellice Mr. Clay Mr. Dugdale Mr. PhiHipps Sir Harry Verney Mr. Marshall SCOTCH ENTAILS. Mr. KENNEDY moved for a Select Committee on the subj, et of the Law of Entail in Seotland.—Agreed to, and the following Committee appointed . Mr. Kennedy Sir John Hay The Lord Advocate Mr. Murray Mr. Abercromby Mr. Trail Mr. Robert Grant Mr. James Oswald Mr. Littleton Mr. Leith Hay Lord Ormelic Captain Gordon Mr. Hope Johnstone Mr. Warburtoix Mr. Loch Sir Andrew Agnew Mr. Bannerman Mr. Strickland Mr. Dunlop Mr. Tancred Mr. Warre THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. Mr. HI ME rose to move, pursuant to notice, for esti mates of the whole revenue and expenditure of the country for 1833; and to call the attention of the House to the present mode of keeping the public accounts. He mainly objected to th e p rac ti ce o f vot i ng away l arge sums in that House on account of a department, without knowing what the aggregate amount of the expenses of that depart ment might be for the whole year. The entire sum voted in that House in last year was 17,783,0001., for five quarters —that was the whole amount over which the House of Commons exercised any control, while the actual expen diture of the country amounted to 51,000,000/. He com plained that the public accounts in this country were not h'pt with any thing like the clearness and precision which prevailed in France or America; and in such a condition were our public accounts that it was not till the financial accounts of the year were published that they could obtain any knowledge of the mode in which the public money was expended. It was equally true that the public re 'wined in ignorance of the cost of collecting the public revenue, and therefore he was anxious to introduce such an alterat'on as would bring the customs establishment and the excise under the examination of the House an nually, in the same manner as the estimates for the army and the navy. It were notorious that in Scotland and Ire land there were many cnstome establishments which cost , twice as much as the revenu e of th e p or t. T hat, he need scarcely obs e rve, was one of the effects Parlia• tnentary influence—an influence, the evil e ff ects o f which w he hop e d were no drawing to lm rev e nue r a( e 'l r o m se e mig t h e c ons i der e dbrtu close. He gi i i that th e ex p ense o f co ll ec ti ng the hack to what it was et and before the year nin, ty seven, an l that the number of persons nsw employed in collect ing it, might be limited to what it was at that period. p the Estimates were properly brought before the House annually, this could easily be accomplished, and his object in making the present motion wae, that the gross amount of the revenue s h ou ld be annua ll y l a id b efore the House. The net am oun t o f t h e revenue was 46,900 , 0 001. to which should b e a dd e d f or expenses o f collecting it, a b eut 3, 5 00,000/. Now the House eliou!d have laid befor e it the items of this expense of collection before it reached the Exchequer, in order that each Hon. Member mi g h t h e , able to examine those items, and approve or disapprove of ehern. The expense of the preventive service was 300,0001. yet not one shilling of this expense came under the cogni ounce or control of Parliament; 238,0001. was th e amount expended by both Houses of Parliament in print ing, yet the items of that expense were never 1 k id before the House. Pensions were placed upon the Consolidated Fund, about which he could never get any details, although he, mere frequently than any other Member of that House, had called for them. It was in this way, than which nothine could be more improper, that pensions were kept from the view of the public ; the acts for which they were granted could not be referred to, and the House could have no effectual check upen them. He repeated that the several items of expense should be annually, and at an early period, laid before the House, as it was the duty of every Hon. Member to give his opinion on every item of the public expenditure. It was too late to bring expenses before the House when they were paid, as was the case, for instance, with respect to the Diplomatic service. As an instance of the manner in which calculations were now lumped, out of the 27,000 men called seamen and marines, 8,000 are marines, and 5,000 of these are upon shore. When the army is calculated at 88,000 men, the House is not informed whether the 5,000 marines on shore are included in that calculation or not. If they are, then the army is so many thousands greater than is generally supposed, and the public are cheated out of the additional expense. Everything like deception might he avoided, if each session, before the 15th of January, the Estimates of the ensuing year were, with the items connected ivith them, laid before the House. Until the various items of expense were annually voted, there could be no !material reduction ; the salaries of the Judges would still be too high, as would he the salaries of utter public servants. The Army and Navy Estimates were annually brought before the House ; how could there, then, be any objec tion to give the simplest details to the House, and the manner the 50,000,000/. p iid out of the revenue was expended ? Until at the commencement of the session the whole amount of taxes was given, without keeping out the charges of the collection of the revenue, no fair arid satisfactory balance could be made out at the end of the year. When 47,000,000/. were raised upon the people, and when three or four millions were added to it, it would he nothing more than honest to show that the addition was caused by the expenses of collection. He would move for—" Estimates of the total Revenue and Expen diture for 1833 ; for Estimates, in detail, of the Charges for Collection of the Revenue, and of Payments made out of the Revenue in its way to the Exchequer, other than the Collection of the Revenues." Colonel DAVIES - seconded the motion. Lord ALTHORP begged to remind the Hon. Member who had last spoken that this was not a time when his motion could be granted. Ile was asking for the esti rnetes for 1833-34, and he 'a as asking for what it was impossible to give him. With respect to the financial change proposed by the Hon. Member, lie confessed that he did not understand it ; for he did not see how a correct account could he made out before the year was concluded. If the Hon. Gentleman wished for a partial and confused one, he was pursuing the very best course to obtain it. There was one part of the Hon. Member's speech at which he felt surprised—namely, that part of it which referred to the balance sheet, designating it as completely delusive, since it was only a return of the net public in come. Why, this plan was adopted at the Hon. Mem ber's own suggestion, and put into the very form he re commended.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member says that Parliament has under its control only the votes in supply, and thinks that it should also have control over the consolidated fund. The reason that fund was not connected with the sue plies, and that the House had not direct control over it was, that it depended upon Act of Parliament, and was permanent; whereas the supplies were voted annually. The sums between the gross and net revenue were voted annually, consequently Parliament had a direct control over them. There was one thing he would promise upon this point, that a Bill was in prepa ration, and about to be introduced into the Exchequer, by which the whole gross revenue would be carried to ac count. With respect to the collection of the revenue, a distinct and detailed account would be given, ending of course with the preceding year. It would be impossible to state the gross sum for the current year, as many con tingencies might happen in the collection, which would preclude all just calculation. The detailed expenses of the previous year were all the House could reasonably ex pect, and were, perhaps, all that was necessary for it. The receipts of the previous year were the only data for the estimates of the current one, and unless it could be assumed that they were the same both years, no positive calculation could be made as to the current year. The Hon. Member must be aware that he was always ready to lay before the House the public accounts as soon as pos sible. With respect to the abuses of the revenue in cer tain ports, he agreed that they were great ; but yet they were unavoidable. The object was to prevent smuggling in those ports, which, though very expens ive, was neces sary, as it prevented the receipts o f the revenue from becoming less in all the other ports. That the revenue might be fairly collected, every port claimed to be protected. On the expenses of printing incurred by both Houses of Parliament, he had not the slightest objection to lay before the House the largest and clearest details. In tact, he would even go so far as to give a detail of the expenses caused by individual Members.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member's com plaint about the salaries of Judges was not very just. He ought to reflect upon the sacrifice the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench hail lately made. That Learned Judge was satisfied with the salary of 8,000/. a year, in. stead of 10,0001. ; and abandoned, besides, certain advan tages of place, by which be might have made a more con siderable sum than this actual salary. He would conclude by repeating, that it was the intention of Government to bring in a Bill to regulate the Exchequer, that the gross Revenue would be carried to account, and that on the other side would be placed the exact expenditure. By this Bill, the House would have next year the control the Hon. Member wished it to have, and which he admitted had not had hitherto, Mr. HUME begged to correct a statement made by the Noble Lord respecting the balance-sheer, which only gave a net return of the public income. The adoption of that method was not his suggestion, but was an amended pro position of the Finance Committee. The Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, said that it was difficult to estimate what the amount of the revenue for the ensu ing year should be. He (Mr. Hume) could not Pee why it should be snore difficult in this country than in America, where correct estimates for two or more quarters could always be obtained. After a few words from Lord ALTHORP in explanation, Mr. HumE withdrew his motion. Mr. HUME then rose, and said that he bad now a motion to submit to the House of co►nsiderable importance to the whole of the shipping interest of this country—be meant the charges to which they are subjected for the maintenance and expense of lighthouses on the coast. He (Mr. Hume) had first brought this question under the consideration of the House in 1821, when a Committee was appointed, who gave in a report, from which Hon. Members would find the amount of charge to which the shipping interest was subjected on this account. He was bound to say, th at since the 'report of that Committee was given in, much had beer, done to relieve the shipping interest from this charge. The complaint which he had now to make was, that :he King's prerogative was grossly abused in renewing leases of lighthouses to private indi viduals, and for their private benefit. I❑ the report laid before the House in 1823 by the shipping interest, it was recommended that all lighthouses should be placed under the direction of the Trinity-house, and that no charge should be made for them beyond the exact amount expended for their maintenance; but, notwithstanding that recommendation, the lighthouse of Dungeness (which was let to Mr. Coke), and those of Harwich and Orford ness, were let since that period on terms which entailed an annual expense of 30,000/. on the shipping interest. In order to slime the extent of the injury, he would read what the report said on the subject of ,.. .three of the private lighthouses only. It appeared that from the Winterton lighthouse—the proceeds of which are divided equally between Lord Braybrooke and the. Commissioners of Woods and Forests, and from which returns had only been given for twenty-on e months from the expiring of the old lease—that in these twenty-one months Lord Bray brooke received, after all the expenses of maintain- ing the lighthouse and keeping up the lights had been I aid, 11,000/., and th e C omm i ssioners of NV so that on t hi s l i ghthouse alone a o ods an I s laid on t h e sh i pp i ng interee. He t F a o x re o ta f ts 22 a ,o li o lc o e l. su w n a l had brought ete subject before the Hattie in 182:3, when several Members had stated their opinions on it; and at that time two Ministers of the Crown pledged them. selves, that as the leases of private lighthouses fel in, they should not be renewed, yet they were renewed. ( Hear, hear, hear.) He consider, d that th is was exer cising the King's prerogative to at; extent which was con. tray to the Constitution, for the King had no right to tax any class of his subjects. The lighthouses of terton and Otfordness had yielded to tte family of Lord Braybroake 22,000/. a year for the last 21 years ; and it was ab , urd to say that because thot family had enjoyed this revenue for so many years, it should continue to enjoy it. Dungeness yielded a revenue to Mr. Coke of S,OOO/ a year, and Harwich 4,000/. There were many other private lighthouses, but he now only alluded to those of which the leases have lately expired, and of which the Go vernment promised that the leases should not be renewed. Since the report of the Committee was given in, the re commendation made by them had been aceeded to, and the charge levied for those lights had been reduced by one-half; but he (Mr. Hume) was prepared to show that a still greater reduction ought to be made. In 1828 the amount levied for lighthouses in England was 63,000/. In Scotland 34,0001, and in Ireland 36000/. ; which, with the amount levied for the three private lighthouses which he had already mentioned, came to 165,0001. This was exclusive of other private lighthouses, of which he could not ascertain the revenue, as they did not choose to make any return ; but he thought that he was not far wrong in saying that the whole sum raised on the shipping interest., for the support of lighthouses, amounted to from 180,000/. to 190,000/. The whole system required consideration, and to be put under different management from what it was at peseta. The Members of the Trinity House are naval men—he had opportunities of observing them for ten years, and had satisfaction in saying, that he thought they did their duty. But what was the case in Scotland? He held in his hand a list of the Board of Commissioners for the Northern lighthouses, and he would put it to the House whether they were fitted for the duties connected with that office,. The first on the list was the Lord Pro vost of Edinburgh; then followed the Lord Provost of Glasgow (whom he had the pleasure of seeing opposite to him) ; the Provosts of Aberdeen and Inverness; and the Sheriffs of Lanark, Argyle, Orkney, &c., all of them law yers--(Hear, hear)—and without a single naval wan among them. He would leave it to the House to say whether these were the most proper persons to manage lighthouses. The fact was, that they had a clever engineer, to whom the whole management was confided. The idea of trusting such a matter to persons like the Provost of Glasgow, or the Provost of Inverness —or, indeed, any other Provost, was quire preposterous.—(Hear, and laughter.) But if matters were bad in Scotland, they were worse in Ireland. In Dublin, there was what was called a Ballast Board, who managed the lighthouses, and who raised 36,000/. for that purpose. The Board con sisted of bankers, magistrates, and persons of all classes, excepting naval men—there was not one naval man in the Ballast Board ; yet, to that Board was confided the care of those lighthouses in which the whole shipping in terest was so much concerned. He thought that in a sub ject of so much importance, it was the duty of the First Lord of the Admiralty to take up the question, and carry some measure through which, would put it on a proper footing.—(Hear, hear.) Ile (Mr. Hume) was aware that the subject was fenced with charters, which might be rather difficult to overcome, but he did not think th tt these would offer any obstacle which was insurmountable. He had no objection that the Trinity should have the management of the lighthouses in Eng land, but while Scotch provosts and lawyers, and Irish bankers and magistrates had the management of them in their respective countries, he could not expect that they would be properly managed. He hoped that the House would take the lights from these two bodies—(A laugh) —that they would not allow the northern lights to shine under their present auspices, nor the Ballast Board to ex ercise its jurisdiction in Ireland another year. He con cluded by moving for returns of the lighthouse duties paid at each lighthouse in England, Scotland, and Ire land, from the year 1828 to the present time. Mr. ROBINSON seconded the motion. Mr. POULETT THOMSON did not mean to oppose the motion made by the Hon. Member for Middlesex, be cause he thought it one of very great importance. He would not at present say what course the Government should pursue; but when the returns for which the Hon. Member had called ware made, they would see hoW the question should he dealt with. It was his own (Mr. P. Thomson's) opinion, that leases of lighthouses ought never to have been given to private individuals, and that in future those leases ought not to be conceded which pressed with such severity both on the public and on individuals. He hoped that some arrangement might be made by which a portion of the burden could be taken off. With regard to the leases which had ex pired since the period when the Committer on foreign trade had made their report, his opinion was, that they ought not to have been again conceded—(Hear, bear, hear)—but that those lighthouses should have been placed under the direction of the Trinity House. He could not agree, however, with the Honourable Member, in thinking that the present Government were to blame regarding the renewal of those leases. The only leases which fell in since the present Government took office were two, which leases had been renewed to Greenwich Hospital ; and in those cases from 5,0001 to 6,000/. a year were given up to the shipping interest which could not have been demanded, and the lights were put under the directions of the Trinity House. As far as the present Government was concerned, every thing within their power that could benefit the shipping interest was done. He admitted that the Hon. Member for Middlesex WllB correct in saying that money was paid out of the public purse to the leaseholders of private lighthouses, and for the benefit of private persons, but that was before the pre sent Government came into office, and they were not ac countable for it. The Government, however, intended to make the management of lighthouses the subject of a specific measure. Sir R PEEL come' . .ed that the Right Hon. Gentle.. man had made the granting of the lease of these light houses the subject of an attack on the last Government, as if that Government had renewed these leases for the pur pose of obtaining the support and influence in that House of the persons to whom they were granted. It was true that in 1828 two leases did fall in, and that new leases were given. But to whom were they given ? To e Noble Lord and a Member of Parliament, who uniformly opposed the last Government.—(Hear.) He would beg to remark, that the subject was not quite so siusple as the Hon. Mover seemed to think. The Dungeness lighthouse was built by one of Mr. Coke's ancestors at his own ex pense, and it, therefore, belonged to him ; so that the Government would have to purchase the property of it, if they did not renew the lease. kr. HUAIE was aware that the lighthouse belonged to Mr. Coke but there fund property within fifty yards of it belonging to the Trinity Flou,e, which would suit for a lighthotpe fully tv: well as the situation on which the pre sent lighthouse stood. After a few words from Mr. ROBINSON in explanation, Mr. PEASE rose and said, it appeared to him a very extraordinary thing, that while noblemen, gentlemen, and companies were subscribing their fifties and hundreds of pounds for the preservation of ships and seamen, for Cap • tain Manley's api aratus, &c., a duty should be levied by his Majesty's Government which proved the cause of lives and property being lost in the gross. It was eminently requisite that a Committee should be appointed to see into this. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by congratulating the House that they had, at length, arrived at a measure of practical reform ; the attention of the House, hitherto, appeared to have been almost wholly occupied in a series of desultory debatings—(Hear)—and special pleadings, which, though they had occasionally much amused and, he hoped, instructed him, had certainly taken up a great deal of time, and produced very trifling results.—(Hear.) An HON. MEMBER under the Gallery, whose name we could not learn, made a few observations, of which we could not even catch the tenor. Lord EBRINGTON rose to correct a statement made by an Hon. Member (Mr. Hume). That Hon. Gentle man bad stated the annual receipts of Lord Braybrooke, from Dundee and Orfordness, to be 22,0001., besides a large sum received independent of this. He was not aware whence the Hon. Member derived this information, but he conic' state that it was greatly exaggerated. In fact, h e could tell the House decidedly that these properties do not produce half that amount. He (Lord Ebrington) was far from pretending to advocate the propriety of the grant, though he was confident that the Government who made it had no sinister or improper motives for so doing. Mr. HUME would authenticate his statement by read• ing the return sent in by Lord Braybrooke, of the receipts whence he had derived his information. On the expira tion of the former lease, it bad been arranged between the Commissioners of Woods and Forests and his Lord ship, that after the expenses bad been paid, the subse quent profits should be divided between the parties so agreeing. By this return it appeared that Lord Bray brooke had received 11,877/. for his share of the profits, no that: of course 23,754/. bad been levied in twenty-one months. This sum was a net amount orer and above the expenses.—(N ; Hea r 1 Lord EBRINGTON obs?re e d that the Hon. r had stated the receipts at abov e 23,0001. per annum. Mr. HUIIE said if an, he had made a mistake. The Hon. Gentleman confirmed, that in spite of an urgent objection made by a Committee fro:n the Trinity House, the lease had been renewed, and the country thereby 5.,(1,1!ed with a burden to the amount of 30,000/. a year, An How. MEMIIEB, whose name we could not ascer tain, expressed his strong objection to any additional charge up,m British shipping, which, as it was, felt it as an intolerable grievance that while all the expense of these lighthouses fell upon the merchant service, the It , yai Navy experienc e d all the ben, fi•s of 1-,etla wit ioeit in the least contributing to th• it maintenance. The lion. Metn ,er felt that the Royal Navy should pry their share of the expense. He had been induced more particularly to make these observations, from information he hail received that it was in contemplation to erect a new light at the expense of the merchant service, the sole benefit of which would re sult to the Royal Navy. Lord EBRINGTON explained that the intention and barg a i n between the Hospital and the Trinity House was, that the expenses should not be laid to them above the mere maintenance of the necessary ligh is; and if this had been exceeded, the agreement, it was clear, had been abandoned. An How. MEMEER s)rongly advocated the proposed lights, and read a letter from a merchant, insisting that they were indispensable. Sir EDWARD CODRIYGTON observed, that it was a great point not to have too many lights, as, where these existed, the a iilors were confused, and could not distinguish one from another. The production of the papers was then agreed to. PRINCE LEOPOLD'S ANNUITY. Mr. HALL brought forward his motion for the pro duction of an account of all sums of money which have been paid into the Exchaquer nut of the annuity granted to Prince Leopold, now King of the Belgians, since 18th July, 1831. He did so in consequence of what had been mentioned in this House on a former occasion, and of a letter received by the Noble Lord at the head of his Ma jesty's Government, from the King of the Belgians, stating that it was not his intention to draw from this country the amount of the income granted him by it. That there remained, however, some debts to be paid off it, the amount of which he could not exactly state. That he wished a portion to be applied to the keeping up of the estate and house at Claremont ; and that there were certain annuities to he paid out of it. What remained, after these sums were paid, he made over to his Majesty's Government, partly for the purpose of remunerating certain persons for public services, partly t{) subscritre to certain charities which had been contributed to H.R.H. the Princess Charlotte, and the residue to his Majesty's Exchequer." The Hon. Member continued, that it was then calculated that -10,0001. would pay off these debts. Consequently, since the large income in question had been now accumu lating for a year and a half, he wished to know whether there had been any portion of it paid into his Majesty's Exchequer; and if so, what sum? Lord ALTHORP referred to the provisions made by his Majesty of the Belgians, comprehending present debts, annuities, sums for charity, and keeping up the establish talent at Claremont. The lion. Gentleman bad assumed th e debts to be 10,0001., but on what grounds he could not conceive. In fact, the debts had turned out to be much more than was expected, as is often the case with debts—(A laugh)—and had not been wholly discharged to this day.—(Hear, bear.) His attention having be n called to the subject, he had made assiduous inquiries, and found that no sum had as yet been paid into the Ex chequer. The trustees appointed to manage the affair had, upon finding this charge upon the annuity, declined acting at present, not knowing to what amount of debt they might he making themselves liable. The trust ac cordingly had not as yet come into operation ; but when the debts were liquidated, he trusted that large sums would be paid into the Exchequer. Under these circum stances, he trusted the Hon. Gentleman would not press his motion. After a few explanatory observations from Mr. HALL, the motion was withdrawn. Mr. ROBINSON rose to make a few observations on the tnotion—(Cries of " Withdrawn")—which the Hon. Gentleman had anticipated him in. He merely wished to observe, that the Noble Lord (Althorp) had given no prospect of when the Exchequer would begin to feel the benefits of !his relinquishment on his Majesty the King of the Belgians' part, nor any intimation as to what was the amount of the claims on the property.—(oh, oh.) He also questioned whether his Majesty, in his present capacity, retained those claims which he possessed on this country as Prince Leopold.—(The Hon. Member's speech was rendered inaudible from the very general fit of cough ing which at the instant seized almost all the Hon. Members.) VOTES OF THE MEMBERS. Mr. D. W. HARVEY brought forward his motion for he recording of the votes of Members on divisions. No Hon. Member could wish to have the proceedings of this House kept secret from the people for whom they were legislating, and as unwilling must every Member be to keep his vote a secret from his constituency: it must be satisfactory to all parties to have them generally known. They now stood in a different relation to their con stituents to that in which they stood before the Parliament was reformed. Their proceedings were closely watched by the public, who, till the Re form Bill was passed, were estranged from the Par liament, which had no sympathy with them. Now a sympathy had been restored between them, and the people looked with confidence to their deliberations. Ic could only be by some strange neglect if the feelings of the pub lic should again be alienated from the Parliament ; and a record of their votes, while it made their opinions known, would be the best means of guarding against it. He would not suggest any plan of taking the votes, because he did not wish to divert the attention of the House from the principle, and because he knew, if he suggested any plan, gentlemen would torture their ingenuity to devise objections to the details and would lose sight of the prin ciple.—(Hear, hear.) He would leave it to the known talents of the Speaker to point out the beat mode of accom plis'ing it. If, however, he were to suggest any plan, it would be, perhaps, that there should be a box provided at the table of the House, and one in the lobby.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He knew that he should, by mentioning any plan, stir up the gravity of a lawyer, but, nevertheless, he must say, that with these boxes and the Members' names printed on slips of paper, they might, as the minority went forth, put their names in the box in the lobby; while the majority, who would stay in the House, might put their names in the box on the table. But be did not insist upon it that a Committee of three gentlemen, should the principle be conceded, might undoubtedly find means to carry it into execution. He wished to meet one objection, namely, that the motion was proposed with a view to intimidation. That notion would be clung to by the Conservatives, who might say that it was making the House of Commons a Political Union.—(Hear, hear.) Those gentlemen would say that it was unsuitable for the House to act under the terror of their constituency. But he thought that even the Conservatives must like to have their votes recorded, even to show that they had performed their duty in a manner unexceptionable to their party.—(Hear, hear.) There was no gentleman, whatever might be his opinions, who could wish to conceal his votes.—(Hear, bear.) He wished to ask the Noble Lord, the Member for Norwich, who cheered him, what votes he ever gave which he would like to have concealed ? None, he was sure. On a late occasion, when a list of the minority who voted in favour of the motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex was published, there were 13S names, and about twenty mis• takes. The list of the minority only was published on that occasion ; but of course the majority also wished that their patriotism should be proclaimed.—(Loud laughter.) They did not wish to hide their me rits under a bushel. —(Laughter.) They desired for their own gratification, and the gratification of their con stituents, that it should be known in what manner they had discharged their duty.—(Cheers and laughter.) He could fancy the disappointment they must suffer after such a publication in the papers of the following day, when the votes of the virtuous majority could only be picked up by questions of, how did you vote ?—(Cheers and laughter.) Then, again, the lists were to be corrected. There came xt morning letters from this Conservative Club-house, and that Union to the editors of newspapers, requesting them to insert a correction that Mr. so and so was in the House, and voted in the majority.—(Hear, hear.) All these things showed a respectable anxiety in the Members to have their votes known. On these grounds be should propose his motion, and take the sense of the House upon it.—(flear, hear.) He would n o t, h owever, press the latter part of his motion relative to the Members pairing , off to leave their names in the Vote-office, but on the first part of the motion he would take the sense of the House. Th e Hon. Member concluded my moving, " That Mr. Speaker be requested to make the necessary arrangement for the taking of the divisions, and for the insertion of them in the vot es , g i v i ng the name of each Member in the majority and minority—Members pairing off to leave their names in the Vote-office." Lord STORMONT was understood to say that, as the Hon. Gentleman had alluded to him, he would take the opportunity of delivering his opinions on the subject. He was returned to Parliament without having given any pledge whatever, and he had no hesitation in saying that would oppose the motion. Pledges had b een propose d to imp, but t o t e e pee i oet.te tt t,e Used L iv en e flat rental. He represented his own o p n ens i n t h at House, and cot the opinion s of oth ers . H e came t h ere determined alwsss to exercise his own j u d gment , an d act accordingly, and n.,;to be guided by th e w ill o f any ot h er i ndividual what. ever.—( Hear, heat.) The lion. Gentleman wished to ; aye an authentic account of the votes of all the Members prlblished in the papers.—(No, in the 'Votes.) That was, thought, an inflineetnent on the constitutional privi leges of the House, and would only encourage the people to watch their proceedings. A few d .ys ago, as the Hon. Member-said, there was a list published of the glorious minority of 138, atid afterwards a list of the glorieus ma jority, and in that majority he found hie name, though he van not present. He regarded that as of no moment, and has! not taken any trouble to correct it, as he was not ambitious of writing a letter to the Ti• ;e Sun, or any ether aim lar publication. Certainly, if he had been in the House on that occasion, he would have supported his M ijesty's Ministers, because h e thought that they were up holding the constitutional prerogative of the Crown.— ( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member said every Member must wish to have it known how he voted ; he, for one, cared nothing about it. He was responsible to hit/melt, and be and all the Members were responsible hereafter to their constituents ; but at present ire was sent there to de what lie thought was right. If they were t r assetit to the motion, it would be depreciating the chatamee •bi ts ; House. On those grounds he should oppose tine tuition. Lord ALTHORP could not say that he agreed w.tli the Noble Lord, that Members ought not to be responsible to their constituents. Every Member ought, in his opition, to be responsible to his constituents as well as to himself; —(Hear, hear.) At the sane time he did not think es‘olf.: t!emen were bound to give pledges as to whi s t they shouldi ; but every Member should ente r completely free to exercise his own judgment on all affairs that came before him, and to act as be thought best or the public gotid.se. (Hear, hear.) His constituents, however, ought to judge if he acted consonant to their views. He, therefore, tffif not object to the motion on the ground that the votes Sef the Members should he known to their constituents. Nor could he, after consideration, think that the publication curs any breach of the privileges of the House. The pub lication of the debates took place by sufferance, and was a breach of privilege; but the publication of the names of Members was never so considered. It was, therefore, ori very different grou n d s f rom those assigned by the Noble Lor'd, that he could not accede to the motion. He cool. , hardly think that the Hon. Gentleman was serious in making it. If, when it appeared now to he necessary, it was difficult to get correct lists, he believed time the attempt to make those lists authentic and correct would be line possible.—(No, no ; Hear.) He was surptised to hear that doubt expressed by the Hon. Member ler Middlesex, for rid man knew better than that Hon. Member the difficulty ef making up those lists.—(Hear.) In general it was known how most of the Members would vote before the division took place, and the lists were nearly finished before the division was done. If it was done as a matter of duty, the lists would be either very inaccurate, or to make them ac curate would cause great delay. Nothing could be moil convincing of the difficulties which belonged to the stibj e tl s than the fact th a t t h e H onoura b le Mover, with all hie abilities and ingenuity, could suggest no better plan than i•is two boxes.—(Hear, and a laugh.) How were they to compel Members to put their names into there boxes? And how were they to be sure that no gentleman ever put the name of another Member in by way of a juke? (Hear, and a laugh.) In fact, too, the House would be thrown into great confusion by the rush of gentlemen to the table to put their names in the box. Looking at all these things, he must say that he could not think the Honourable Member meant seriously ro press his trio-- had wide!' awn that pa r t o f i t w hi c h re l a t e d to t h e pa i r i ng tion to a divi s i on , p art i cu l ar l y as t h e H onoura b le Member off of the Members.—(Hear.) Mr. WARBURTON said, if they admitted the princi ple, a Committee might arrange how the votes should be recorded. At times great importance was attached to the publication of the names. In Canada, the votes alwaye contained the names of the majorities and minorities..—e (Hear, and a laugh.) The House of Assembly was not indeed so large and so numerous as the House of Com inone—(Hear)—but theprinciple was the same.—(Oh, Of!. Colonel DAVIES thought the plan would be us-ful if it were practicable, but hedoubted the practicability. There were more difficulties in the way of it than the Hon. Member seemed to imagine. he minority of 138 had been already referred to. Why, on that occasion, a desert gentlemen were going round the House asking every Mew her what was his name.—(A laugh.) After all Ellie ouble, there were about twenty names incorrectly given. He could not acquiesce in the motion at present, though, if any method could be devised for taking dawn the names correctly, without wasting time, it should have his sup. port.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HUME knew from experience that the names of 658 Members could be called over in half an hour. He did not like the plan of the boxes; but there would be no difficulty on the plan he had hinted at, of making lists of the majorities and minorities.--(Question.) Sir R. PEEL cou'd not conceive what object could be gained by the motion. The Hon. Member's plan won! I Ire impracticable ; and, if practicable, it would not neces sarily insure accuracy. If the motion was successful, it would give rise to many petty motiena. Members would site's press motions to a division, which they would not otherwise trouble themselves about, and it would lead to a great waste of tune. It would be, in fact, a public nuisance.o... (Hear.) [Mr. Hume—There would be no inconvenience.l What ! no inconvenience? Why, suppose a man voted black wee white—(A laugh) —would it be no inconvenience that iris vote was so recorded without any explanation ?—( Hear. ) Suppose a case of a Russian Dutch Loan, which an Hon. Member thought a case of profligate expenditure, and yet voted for it, would not that Member's vote be erroneously judged of, if the vote only were known? Tire Hon. Member might explain that he had voted so to save the Ministers—to protect the Reftom Bill—or for softie other ',pally good reason ; but those who reid only the votes would not know that, and the Hon. Member would be condemned. The present mole of managing the votes was better than that. He must add, that he thought that Members were responsible to their constituents for their votes ; but God forbid that any constituency should judge any Meuaber from an individual vote. They must take all his votes, and, his whole conduct into consideration. The lien. Gentleman had challenged him to show any incon venience from this plan, and he had answered the ceallenge, by showing that a gentleman who voted black was white was liable to an erroneous construcion of his conduct. Mr. HUME—(Cries of " Spoke.") After a short tittle, the Hon. Member obtained a hearing. He was un derstood to say, that he was not ashamed of his vote on the Russian-Dutch Loan—that he would vote so again—and that be had published the lists of the majority and mino tity on that occasion. Captain BERKELEY was opposed to the motion. He had never given any pledge, and never would give one. If his constituents could not trust him, the sooner the con nection between them was cut the better.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. ROBERT STUART was opposed to any plan which would increase the time now occupied in taking a division. The Hon. Member for Middlesex proposed to call over the House on every division, and thus ascertain how every Member would vote, a plan which according to the Hon. Member would occupy half an hour. In the last Parliament a Committee had divided thirteen times in an hour and a half, 42 Members being present, on which occasion had the plan of the Hon. Member been adopted six hours and a half would have been wasted. He was not ashamed of any votes he had given, he was most anxious that full publicity should be given to his v7ites ; and on a recent occasion, as no list of the to ijority had then been published he wrote to communi cate to his constituents the manner in which he had voted. He must protest against the doctrine laid down by the Noble Lord, the Member for Norwich, that any Hon. Member was irresponsible for his votes to his constituents. It savoured too much of the old leaven of corruption to hold forth that any man was the representative of his own ()pinion, and not those of his constituents. Lord STORMONT explained, but he was not audible. Mr. AGLIONBY would not vote for the plan of the Member for Colchester, but would vote for the principle. 1; was most desirable for the country to know the votes of every Member, and as he understood that the Hon. Mem. her's plan was not involved in the motion, he should cer tainly vote for it. An HON. MEMBER could not concur with the propc sition of the Member for Colchester, but he was willing to concur in any measure for giving an accurate report of the divisions in the House which might be practicable. Mr. D. W. HARVEY was glad that the Noble Lord (Stormont) had at length been brought to speak with inure deference of a popular constituency, and he hoped Remarks had that he would soon be induced to designate the people of England by some more respectful term than that of mere b W. 111:rbvielyciYhavid.ithnevre'r. mob. The plan which he had proposed, had for . its tv a hi c c a h se he sh k o n u e l : ob ject t the to recognition proceedings f the o f p principleD. V. been made relative to the d e pendence of Members upon n t o tte b i constituents.contra contrary to t hhsehe should didn f iv il doo l on r tse . sdo nagaaiwnayif the case of the acted under any such feelings ; for in e e and ne s ad : : b u n d render it necessary for him to do so, of the majority of his eon: vas a of 1 1( 1 ° 46 4 ' ryas il o ' ego t, 'ft, 8 ain he P r tt 1 1 'hid) t „0, ttli t .80, it ety, be 113-01 14'1I4l'icitinPr°ved ity • C°l'3 NO i n I a n d , it Lad Fro khAti,f,r,,,,e'sel lami bee p io ait ua beneficial r' lo l 1 pta _tio doubt so, thl4-,l,etter4 th e ` I, r a t r ading c ) P fit, t 'rh no th —( 4 w i th .' ie was ht 4t Re Pete% ildoo Oridgl; I t 4 N t ,tiNt• ' :nth year, whi%), 4 ti n , t a l to he 00 th !,„N,tht !heir e t ', A f e so v , tt ere andfot t 1 ) 1 1 ttit,l4 .`leaht an d Ws' ,iO ,l titOY: e " at was fi tedeel 12, 4 ' tit:,,ll, ,ith4rorueni the pr°c, ;1, t'Pki 4,4)„inee t and 1 rt' a d tlit,4;llt toll P b er e o' l 4 • t i in t ece oli oflit4 e ,1 3 d the pr ° p ticle e i 0,41 th e eount a don this°,olor! c, t h r Y h a d ? er of the 0 th' ti 'tti s : l 4 r,C t uy forward. (i t ice t aro the il).110) tt,tP,to° t:te „a .__(cbee v to 1 41 ti . *l , Ol et the Pl°l'l•nd O l t f t ht I er to ret h i e feli:tOtpl4(l:t' Re g referred t" - e t ;1,1 ,e gnu, se ° 0 1 ' 4 11 'tl nu' c°g°l' 04%41 Ili, th„ jug t k, t han a ttee, iv ° re go'::*,: t 4/ . l ' , 44 eav er" eof the ; di o , th e ' but ; ,ter to 06c. iikkg, to A pow ►ii) i rega rd . got er-1 in ' O , OA r'to f:4 ,gdt coo. 4 t ' c e, -e CLOP , treretl)Ntt th 'rly ; a Cooll3'lrlkt / Pe, Vact hat the 0,,, 011„011tP0);n, 8° a Pe tit.' tie ° IVi't t) 4 4 IS b c a t the Pe t ' 00 1 1, 0,, I w ith it u o ` t 4 ,Nt tt i 'tL e ,,, tl th e ° d u i House deal ohity 't Ile ? and ith ' l l vl'44. to t 'tied tl C' grf ght t° o' 4 f aesentat olio'Pete p,rori 8, ...torte° kod!lid t q " , at