The Sun. — London, England, 1833-05-15 00:00:00

, i„ dole", n Waiting I" L . , $ bate on the tu o .l' ' ,l House, in fol loiartv.letryi, 1 e system 0 f ''. 0 0 to the present, ~,. n is, whether, I':,, nd finally estioro ,e proper age ° lel the Colonial A , ,; D ° th a t the i lc/ of Conlm° s4 ., ,/ , rd. But ' cm :" [' rus t not thehw ration for 'i r , ° ppear, depend te,l _ 'cation. 1t 0 G ran ted' 39 do their p ar ., t of doing :t net's testirnool, e vils of the slav il, enien, by the w, t h ose who , ' . 1 , rs of staves• r . could nett 'i that, ace` n e had even be ', ° ol the table of dies to c arry on re had bee n ' l t ° it' as the ohl ec c:tri', y be) were I s se regulatia..7,,, the ,Assealhq.,te xiety to ter td !xpressed its 7 ,00 the Hon. Bart these these apPea r 'od ne ,g i n ween moo r $,;" and under 1"00 re executo r o ( l' j the objects op: t any ge a . t r " Abolinoo an argurn eD Y bat may nat f e reP ify the int er im g ht to inter esildil early prized Id to enter !.01,1004" rave constn f the PCilier' o t r E j eer,,P ninate. co v [ know Of r ` ; 14 , who vind icate / emselves in F.P oio 'l ti d de tertliina w in the ' ha : and arg d o — e t sci/ .ority show': i c h it restmeoptr) its own P" bol d , • • ig ht ' in its r , t pd le case of ' n os' a claim °I I Tb erj own. do t will deny 01, en. Alenahe r t l e olo i t right of in t , itho, ity th e ' d ;oti tself indevea L; t 1 y. Let to I° .t° o n the sub?' ) ,e to a parti cu ,b lo. ol li th e local trilod ,o make thi s 40' I° ' ' ‘k / ony. direc having a aci irinciple, °or that year , , nted a petl F ri tmaica th e io nd negr ee', t ution for de b r ' te tV f Trade re ed/ ild not be d id awn , of th e r t i,d was passed, 00c u.es, and Il e g f JeV to paynlen, ° on this OP T 1 events, it an Anieric' fr p e (55, was at tdlr and was ei"" tb mcbtnent 4 ° A P, e laid it of the Regent state of things in the colonies, and now I I.lsk what can we do to remove that c iuse—where is your remed y, ? 1r is very easy to say we will exclude, or we gnt have excluded, all knowledge of those pro eee'liniZe from the colonies.—( Hear, hear.) 1 say you e v " ,, ld , h ave done no such thing, and still less can "° it for the future. You cannot prevent the voi ce ; , °' t he People from being beard within these walls, h a — You cannot prevent the sound of what. passes the colo a , n'", but it will reach the shaves themselves, aggro ' by the incautious comments of those who may be. 'rne the mediu m of communicating it to the negro po- Pulstion of the West Inoiea. 1 repeat it. that if you wish :r 1 0 stop the progress of this species of information, it is ej(4 your power. The only course left you is t . o , anc e• The only dangerous course is happily impracti ;C'''---you cannot recede —you cannot stand sill. It has 474." aid that " the best mode of avoiding danger is to n ,e, : il ." I say that in this case the only possible mode of e- ( 1 4 with the danger, so as to afford the smallest chance ar my , (l.l ,f is by m an f u ll y grappl i ng w i th it in front.— to, ' l .' e ar.) Vario us o bj ect i ons h ave b een ra i se d to e° Noes f ounded upon propositions for ameliorating the tave been Udition of the slaves, and the strongest apprehensions 11 4 - expressed l es t we s h ou ld procee d w i t h steps too y , and upo n d ata not careful t ly fu e r x f a r m ee i d n ( e n d ; b i E t fo i r s e said off tha You tr him emancipation, otherwise you entail nothing but k t r'. f or t r Y, upon the negro and ruin upon the plant: r. Now fagji!e examination of that question, it will be nocessary, , nave already said, to trouble the House with a few tit, 8 2 n d figures, Up to the present moment, I purpose's th at "ned from adverting to particular cases, for I thought toreference to facts affecting individuals could lead tha t 13 ng beneficial, and might be productive of de, . heat and irritation which it should be our earnest L 4 t,' th L re t ° avoid, (Hear.) I trust, therefore, that by p ; °- w ho may follow me similar abstinence may be its thee(' ac tiS a nd that in the course of such discussion Othipresent measure may give rise to, we shall escape ng of that painful and profitless species of disputa h°l,4,Which none but the enemies of the colonies and tri a en - ,"" I ature would d es i re t o see preva ili ng . If f or a ma h should seem to depart from that rule which Prescribed, it will, I assure the House, be so only in aree4rince, my earnest and sincere desire being to avoid tiou . ° lng having the slightest tendency towards irrita ali"-•(Hear, hear.) I have now in my possession a rali lt , t Y, of Pipers, to the results of which I will proceed to ' e attention of the House, on the subject of the Orantities of sugar produced during three several periods th ose years each—its effect upon population during *hi e , Periods and the mode of exacting the labour by these the sugar was produced. Before I can conclude thiteth sta tements, I do think the House will agree with me, Its, r u e time has arr i ve d w h en h uman i ty compels us to f.:. and de c i s i ve l y pronounce that the negro must be r i n - !Pated. Th e part i cu l ars w i th which I have been oih -l 'hed are from the official triennial register, and from d ' er sou rces of the hi g h es t aut h ent i c i ty . F rom t h ese th, l ttle en ts, I thi n k no thi ng can b e more ev i dent than ti'n','n Proportion as sugar has increased, men have de and to this general rule there are but two excel). 1832 In Jamai ca , f rom t h e year 1823 to 1826, onwards to cin' 'ye find, di v idi ng t h e n i ne years in three several pe t " N, that i n the first period in that colony, the prodne tli? 'l'o -Igor w as 1,354 , 4 88 cwt., and it the second period of th P %ltlction w as 1,389 000 cwt. Th e mean populat i on to a4"r't period was 334 , 000 ; i n t h e secon d it fell off 11 - :i°00. In Demerara, the production of sugar in the elvPeriod was 652,000 cwt. ; in th e secon d, 662,000 di rn t ; ; the thi r d, 806 ,000 cwt. ; and what was the ti od .l .,ution of th e s l ave pobu'ation during those thr ee pe slava • In th e fi rst, on the average of the three years, the 57,,1"' w ere 7 2,722 ; in the secon d, 71,005 ; i n t h e t hi r d , ss4: ll of --- 67,000 slaves were made to produce 800,000 ugar r,ln•Brbice, the poipation S t v es was reduced from 22,000, e which it was p in the c 't those p er i ods, to 20,821, which we find it in the Perr" bi le sugar goes on i n th i s proportion. In the first °°, 5 1,600 cwt. ; in the second, 64,000 cwt. ; and t o „ t he third, with a declining population, it was aug. %' llte d to the fearful amount of 94,312 cwt. One oft he C ' ll:'l ) , i 008 to which I have alluded, was Trinidad. There or e r' in that colony a trifling increase in population as h a l in production ; but, at the same time, it is to be • it to mind that many negroes have been brought into 144:h e°1 °nY, as f ree l a b ourers, f rom the Spanish Main. adoes formed another exception. There, in the first ti l t . l ° ,l , the production of sugar was 32,000 cwt., and in second it had fallen down to 29,000 cwt. ; while the 't".ls,e population ,thus., then, w e hes.... l ( Zlvanced from 79,800 to 81,349. t he dun fi nd, that as production increases, human hear.) We might suppose, at : l ite first view, that children under ten years of t o D Wo uld not be affected by the production of Rey in snose colonies ; but what is the fact ? that 1, 11 1 . , do happen to be the very class of the population most h thlY d iminished by the course of events whose effects t 4 the hest been detailing. The reason must be obvious of tht lloUse--the increase of labour, and the operation se puni s h ments by which th e l a b our was ca ll e d i nto t,,,nee...-the pr o d uct i ve power of th e s l aves t h emse l ves 4 tt 6 2 4 ' i nIshed. In the year 1817 the number of slaves the ag es o f 30 an d 40—the period when their klif AnaS :; o at f l abour was the most produ c tiv e —th ere d o we l ils re betwee n th e year 1817 an d the present period, 0 , 1 so l' a differe nce o f 11,652 persons b etween t h e ages g 1 !1b. 4 'l'd 40 ; f rom 40 to 50 t h ere was a considerable rh on o s but not so from 60 to 70 and upw a rd s . 'ts ' 4 ,: Not labour, those rendered incapable of further t kl e °4 by the intense application of the West India toira-f st imulating men into exertions, are numerous as compare with the other classes. I feel that in going these dry details I may have incurred the hazard 7 '' 'Y i ng the House, but they did appear to me to u s4 aa tters of the highest moment ; and I must here 411, d er i ve to observe, that if no other advantage w.s to Lot,'llved from the appointment of protectors of th i , We have at least this benefit—that they afforded c 'at i l, - le other recorded facts which I shall now sum- Y before the House. This alone, I think, has •ttil,tittitied the appointment of those officers in the c olonies, and would fully warrant Parliament b a ,ktii ' : ti , n g upon their introduction into the chartered o t"'tit i t- al ". I find that in 1829 the number of puni,ll - the t urned to the protectors was no less than 6,500 ; 'l',llll,r4X year they were increased to 18.324 ; the of year y,:r°ll.,l..ishe. in that time amounting to 194,7410 mb 1 e n r li t l?a o i, h MI, the population being 58,000, the nu to . ornents were 21,656, the lashes being 199,500. tO IN & t he th e." official rec or d o f th e pun i s h ments, supp li ed 'es ~rotectora of s l aves by the owners themselves. It Kt4'll;':t in clude any punialimi nts inflicted under judicial 4 . not one of th ose i n fli cte d b y d i rection of a ,p,:,, at e; but th ose d omest i c punishments which, in totot pees stat e o f t h e l aw, were sanctioned; and this ' B °, let it be recollected, is confined to the crown 41 1 d it is th e d omest i c , i rrespons i ble punishments r e owners o f s l aves h ave i n fli cte d by their own I .'ffo l-t Y. Have I not, then, shown sufficient to warrant n 'tte,; ( "e in taking a st-p of immediate interference, to ;"ts, e What Mr. Canning called " the abstract love of kOiCti,tc Whip?" lam aware that we have been often 7,44 With our ignorance of the negro character ; my t e s t that any man may inform himself sufficiently on ' o'oO:'nt, and that we commit a grievous error when we ki Yb a , that the moral circumstances attendant upcn changedsO the phy s i ca l c h aracter o f t h e neero lsla !tltibmt'lle him forfreedom. It is a most d angerous error qash that to the physical qualities of the negro Ivi!siyielsulted solely fron t the moral conditions which o o Ni, a d supe r i n d uce d . I t yet remains to be seen 4 to: i st i r , 1115 n egro i s less industriou,, cr less i:!i,ck Hear)—to better his condition than other t tts, e are, ho wever , to ld to l oo k at the manumitted leoe t o nd we are taunted with the fact, that not 20 4 those manumitted had ever returned to fi e ld tli o l ' as 2 p ver y much d ou bt if a lt oge th er th ere were so ts, r Pre oe field negroes manumitted. From 1817 to !c oal time it (lies not appear that above 14,163 tiitey strutted altogether; three.fourths of these . were to ti ot:,,: n d I can have very little difficulty in imagining whieh led to the manumission of those, and kl:!aioill" omission likewise of their male children. Toe al,oaot ni fourth were made up chiefly of domestic slaves ee hani of brought up to field 'et re , and rt es; none these were a v o th J ai no matter of surprise that when manu lOR 07 should not have turned to that, the most de ti,ktt bi,,,Tethe employments in which negroes are engaged. '44i t th lt °I this argument amounts to saying, that the aw ait Ititi r t e ,,, zl " fit for emancipatioti and that we must s o toin tilt ar e • and •I • b e good for , !l eo - that argument, it 4N on , ° o7 tOO • fat'; for it proceeds to the indefinite 11 , 4 b t ,. () or we must Postpone emancipation, not fur l 'i4 l - : t nci e. "", Years, but to some period no one can say taC° I know that people will tell me we do not 1 th a eetusi e ft op° ~,egroe, slavery —we merely wish to postpone 'Y are fit for freedom—till they manifest "I•s, t 'ein F or for laborious industry sufficient to qua -444 if i t the privileges of free men. That argu- Ihp, "er NII P Z Ve _ S „anY thing, proves too tnuch... population s tipp, f 4 aisposition to labour until popula ,t th "d ; and will that ever take place t 'so. e de populatin g • We influence of slavery Pre- L ,sl ikve wili t , Lotu that the negroes own no domestic ro ot ry ueY, so long as you keep them in that state the deb tl a n't o f f . es their principles, and which de lao t i„ foresight and which takes away front vs to industry, The slaves have no etlu- cation, and you deny them any ; for, as slaves, they can have none. They have hitherto been treated as chattels attached to the soil—do you think they can be made fit for freedom, till freedom has exercised its influence upon their minds and upon their moral character ? The treatment of the West India neeroes is a stain upon a Christian age, and upon a country professing itself Christian. If the slaves be made acquainted with religion, they must learn that slavery is inconsistent with the Christian religion; and will you shut out religion, in order that you may maintain slavery? Other countries have read us a severe lesson upon this subject. In colonies belonging to Catholic countries, no man was allowed to possess a slave, who did not provide the means of instructing him in the Catholic faith. Be that, however, as it may, this I will say, that the Hause will ill discharge its duty, if it does not forthwith put forth a declaration of religious freedom, as respects the colonies, and leave to every negro within their limits, the free, independent, and inviolable right of adopting whatever form of Christianity be may think proper. The next point to which I mein to advert is the evidence of Mr. Dumas himself, a man of colour, and who had the best opportunities of forming an opinion upon such subjects; because a case fell under his observation at Antigua of an experiment made upon 371 captured negroes and 36 freehold escheated sleeves, which bore directly on this part of the question. If there were any case in which such an experiment could be made under unfavourable circumstances, it must certainly be when Afric ins newly captured and unaccustomed to slavery were to be maintained and regulated according to the manners of the inhabitants of civilised countries. Yet the result of this experiment at Antigua was such as, I think the House will say, afforded a convincing proof of the fitness of the negro for speedy emancipation. With the excep tion of a single case of petty larceny, the manumitted slaves had, up to July last, when he left the island, been guilty of no, breach of the liws whatever. Their industry, as he stated, was remarkable, as well as the avidity with which they endeavoured to obtain the possession of pro perty, and the eagerness with which they copied the dress, the manners, and the speech of the Creoles. In some instances they had even the advantage of the Creoles, and most of the laborious works at St. John's were performed by them. They had gone on so pros perously and so diligently in their career of industry, that many of them had purchased their own houses; end out of the 371 captured slaves, only one man and five women had been returned upon the bounty of the crown; these, too, being induced to do so by medical advice, as no longer able, from age or infirmity, to gain their own living.—(Hear.) There was a still more remarkable instance of the same kind in the Bahamas. There the slave population was not regarded by themselves, but by the freemen of the islands, as no longer belonging to the class of slaves, but as already half free. An Hon. Gentleman has spoken of what he saw in the Island of Cuba, where the soil was not only highly cultivated for raising the necessaries of life, but a large quantity of sugar was raised by free labour. With respect to the case of the inhabitants of Sr. Domingo, in my mind it proves just nothing at all. If we consider the horrors of their long struggle for liberty ; if we call to mind the uncertainty which hung over every species of property ; if we remember the driving out of all the capital formerly employed in the cultivation of the island ; if we add to these the ruin of every species of manufac ture ; if, under all these circumstances, the cultivation of sugar had been diminished, it would not be at all sur prising. But the House will recollect, that though sugar is not extensively exported from St. Domingo, yet sugar is very assiduously cultivated, as well as other necessaries and conveniencies of life ; and all this is done by the mass of free labourers, working on their own account. I have a still stronger instance to adduce—the only instance, indeed, of the gradual emancipation of a slave population on a large scale with complete and entire success ; and if I appear to dilate too much upon this topic, the House will, perh , :pe, excuse me, considering the importance of the subject - , when I state that ever since the plan for the emancipation of the West India slaves has been proposed, I have had an opportunity of conversing with a person who could give me the most important information on the subject—l mean the President of Venezuela, who in 1821, the year in which the measure of emancipation was first put into operation, was the protector of slaves at Caraccas, and consequently had the best possible opportunity of seeing what was done. In 1821, it was determined by General Bolivar to carry into effect a general measure of emancipation. It had pre viously been a rule, that such slaves as took part in the struggle against Spain should be liberated ; but in 1821, it was resolved to proceed upon a general plan. For this purpose, a fund was created for the purpose of redeeming the slaves, principally, as we understood, from the proceeds of intestate estates. At the same time a tariff of the value of slaves was determined. They then proceeded to redeem the slaves. The older slaves were first redeemed, and those whose redemption cost the smallest sums of money ; they next proceeded to purchase such as had the best claims in point of character; and they went on steadily in this course; so that, whereas in 1821, the number of slaves in Venezuela was 100,000, at the time of which I speak they were reduced to 25,000. This is an instance which must be extremely valuable to the House in its discussions upon this subject. Even in Venezuela there was no immediate measure of emancipation. A course was laid down—the certainty was given to the slave of ultimately attaining his freedom—and those who la:d down the course, which has proved so successful, did not fail to persevere in the course which has led to that success. Eager to take advantage of the opportu• nity thrown into my way by my interview with this gen tleman, I put some questions to him upon such topics as seemed likely to afford useful information to me and to the House, fir the purpose of directing us in the business of legislation on this important question. The first objection which struck me against thee plan was the jealousy of the unt4riancipated slaves against their more fortunate brethren. I therefore asked him " What was the effect upon the minds of those whom you left in slavery at the time when you redeemed the others?" " There was not the slightest jeelouse (was his reply)—their condition was not wretched —they had indulgent masters—masters rendered more in dulgent by this prospective freedom of their slaves. Still liberty was the obj,ct of their wishes ; but seeing that they were sure in their turn to reap the same advantages, they were content to wait with patience." But as any as sumption of superiority on the part of the emancipated slave might have in time destroyed this feeling, 1 asked a second question : " What a ffect had the acquisition of freedom upon the emancipated slaves themselves ? Did they feel any sense of degradation in mixing with th ose who had form er ly b een thir companions ? Had they any r. luctance in joining them in the labours of agriculture?" " None in the least," he said, " if there be any difference between time free labourer and the slave working on the same estate, it is only that the free labourer works with greater energy." The last question which I put to him was— " What effect had this substitution of free for slave labour upon the agriculture of the country ?" "In 1821," he replied, " when the measure first came into operation, agriculture was reduced to the lowest ebb ; it is now fl,m rishing." In corroboration of this statement he showed me a letter from the Treasurer of Venezuela, a near rela tion of a gentleman a Member of this House, in which it is stated, that in the article of sugar, so far from any dete rioration having taken place, the cultivation of it had only begun since 1821. Till there was a free labouring ripu dotion in Venancio, not a single pound was raised in Ve nezuela. Now that country has begun to furnish Curacoe with sugar. Even in the English island of Trinidad, the rum of the adjoining continent was sold and denominated as the best Jamaica rum. Having thus stated in detail what I conceive to be the real circumstances of the case, having particularized the position in which this country is placed, which renders it impossible upon this point that the Legislature should stand still, even if it would ; having shown, from the events which have taken place in other colonies, that perseverance in our system is replete with danger ; having dwelt upon the facts which are de tailed in official documents, and stated the repugnance of the Colonial Legislature to take any effectual step, either for the immediate or the gradual abolition of slavery ; having proved, in my opinion, the absolute and imperative necessity by which this House is bound to advance calmly, but resolutely and determinedly, to the one great object, the ultimate and complete aboli tion, to the utter destruction of the last vestige of colonial slavery ; having stated all this, I now proceed to lay before the House the means by which this great object may, in my judgment, be effected—not without danger (for that can hardly be)—but with the least danger that may be. I will not now eater into the details of the mea sure. I will merely show the outline of the measur e which I intend to propose—a measure, no doubt, suscepti ble of amendments and modifications, for :t is impossible that any Governtnent can propose a so compli ca t e d a mat t er , w hi c h s h a ll ein every respect be unexceptionable—whi c h s h a ll not plan, particularly in liable to many great and grave objections; but the proposed measure is °pee to the consideration and the judgment of this House and of the country, and our only wish is to try if by any mucous we can r econc il e conten di ng h etet eats and con fli c ti ng claims, if we ca n e ff ect t h at great,;that hallowed object— the extinction of slavery throughout every country that owes allegiance to the British Crown. The Hen. Mein tier for Weymouth (Mr. Buxton), who has often advocated the cause of the slaves, made a proposal in 1823, for the progressive abolition of slavery, by providing that all children of slaves born after a certain date should be free. That was the whole of' his demand then ; that was the consummation at which he then aime,f; and that, in fact, would have secured the extinction of slavery. The Hon. Member then used these memo rable expressions—" If you will not go hack, at least do not go forward. Ido not ask you to retrace your steps, but I demand for every child that shall hereafter be born of a slave, the rights and the privilege s of a freeman." To the whole and full extent of what the Hon. Member for Weymouth (Mr. Buiton) then asked us to go, to that whole extent are Government now disposed to go ; and they are disposed to make a still more extensive change —to avoid that objection to the Hon. Member's plan, which Mr. Canning made in 1823. " What !" said Mr. Canning, "will you place the future in a condition so far superior to the present generation ? Will you so far in vert the feelings between parent and child as to doom the parent to hopeless slavery, while the child is free from his birth ?" The power of this argument was irresistible, and the House felt it. I trust the House will now feel that it is necessary to act in a different way, and that they wili not think it sufficient to promise freedom for the future generations, but to provide freedom for the present. I am prepared to offer freedom to the existing generation ; I would not condemn them to that state of despair in which Canning supposed the Hon. Gentleman wished to leave them ; but I agree with the prudent language which was used in the discussions of 1823 and 18,24, that the slaves should not be made free by one hasty step—that the shackles should not be burst at once—that they should not he flung forth suddenly from slavery to freedom, for which they may be unfit. But am I prepared to say that we ought to wait for any given period, for one or two years,,and that then the slaves should he irnineiliately emancipated ? I say there would he still greater danger if such a course were pursued, be cause the slaves would he unsettled, by having the pros pect of liberty so long set before them. The intermediate period would undoubtedly be a period of great excitetnen's and the slaves would be abandoned to irrepressible disobe dience and want of control. I propose a safer and a middle course, which will give to the slave all the essentials of freedom, will gradually sweep away slavery arid remove the slaves from the restrictions imposed upon them by Colonial Legislatures, but leave them still subject to such regulations as will operate as an incentive to the acquisition of industrious habits. I propose that every slave, on the pasing of this Act, shall immediately, not in one year ner two years, have the power of claiming to be put in a situation in which they may enjoy all the privileges of freemen—in which they may wear no servile badge, and be subject to no corporeal punishment—in which they may be entitled to the fall enjoyment of all the comforts of their domestic ties—in which those who are nearest and dearest to them may not be liable to cruel punishments—in which their evidence in courts may not be disputable—in which their rights of property may be as full and as complete as those of their masters—a state, in short, in which they would be entitled to every right and every privilege of freemen, subject to this condition and to this condition alone—that for a certain period they shall con tract to labour under their present owners but their then employers. lam asked how I propose to meet all those acts of the Colonial Legislatures which control the actions of slaves ? Why, I say, if you pass a measure of this kind, you sweep away all these acts at once. These re gulations are enacted for slaves; but they are no longer slaves. They would be entitled to every right of person, of property, of religion, to which a freeman is entitled— subject to this one only conditisn, and that but for a limited period. I cannot believe, even if the matter stood thus, and thus only, that this condition would be consi dered such an infraction of the freedom of the labourer as would give out the smallest reason for the opponents of slavery to withhold their assent from the measure. Those who are anxious that this House should proceed to the immediate abolition of slavery, and who wish that every trace of slavery should vanish in a few years, would do well to reflect in what condition the agricultural labourer in England is placed when he works upon contract— bound, as he is, to provide for himself lodging, clothes, and food, for which his wages are so inadequate.— (Hear, hear, hear.) In what state is it proposed to place the negroes? The master will be bound to supply him with food and clothing, or to give him money to provide them, if it should be thought more advisable by the negro. For this, three fourths of the negro's time are to be given to his former owner—the day being considered as consisting of ten hours ; and seven hours and a half can not be considered any very exorbitant demand for these advantages. For the remaining fourth part of his time, whether it be taken as portions of the day or of the week, the negro is at liberty to transfer his services where he pleases ; but with this advantage, that the master is bound to employ him at a rare of wages proportionate to the value which he originally sets upon him. Much of the dispute upon this question depends upon mere verbal criti cism. "At what rate shall we fix the rate of wages?" it is asked. " Can you fix any rate applicable to any two islands ?"—" Can you fix any rate applicable to all the islands ?"—" Can you fix a rate applicible to every species of labour in any one particular island ?" On the otter hand, we may ask, " Shall we fling this whole matter loose, and satisfy ourselves by saying that the wages shall be such as are sufficient to supply the labourer with the necessaries of life ?" There may be some islands where the unoccupied land is of great extent, where the fertility is such as to render food easy of acquisition, where the wants of the people are few, and easily sup. plied. If wages were there restricted to what is ne• cessary for procuring the mere necessaries of life, it would be impossible that agricultural labour should not come to an immediate and entire cessation. Would such wages as these be a sufficient inducement for the negro to iievote himself to continual labour? I do not credit what some people say about the negro character; but I do crAir what is said about the slave ch aracter . I know th e effect of a tropical c,itnate. The eff•ct of the state of slavery i n these countries is to inculcate upon the slave that labour is the greatest of all curses, and that the removal of labour is t; .e greatest of all blessings. To throw the slave sud denly into freedom would he to damp all his inclination s to industry; it would be exposing him to the temptatio n of recurring to his primitive habits of savage life from which he has but lately been reclaimed ; therefore some restriction is necessary for a time both for the masters and for the good of the slaves themselves. Now there can be no better security devised thin that which has been proposed, by obliging the masters to fix a value upon their slaves, and afterwards regulating the rate of wages by that value. In what other w,yis it possible that the rate of wages could be fixed? Should it be referred to a committee of planters to determine the rate of wages according to the cost of maintenance and the price of the necessaries of life? There can he no other criterion. My Noble Friend speaks as if there could exist any competition, and that the rate of wages could be determined by that. I should be glad to hear him support, much more prove, such an opi nion. There is, I repeat, no mode of doing more equal jus tice than by imposing upon the planter the necessity of fixing the price of the wages in this way; because the re- lation hetween the wages and the price fixed would ope rate as a check upon the planter's valuation. If he fixes a high price, he pays a high rate of wages. If he fixes a low price, the easier it is for the negro to obtain his freedom. I propose, therefore, that the labourer shall hare a right to claim employment of his master for one fourth of his time, according to a fixed scale of wages; that during such one-fourth of hit, time, the labourer shall be at liberty to employ himself elsewhere ; that the master shall fix a price upon the labourer, at the time of his apprenticeship ; that the wages to be paid by the master, shall bear such a proportion to the price fixed by him, that for the whole of his spare time, if given to the master, the negro shall receive one-twelfth of his price annually, and in proportion for each lesser term.—(At this time some marks of impatience were shown by the House, which were met by cries of " Order.") The Right Hon. Member continued :—I will detain the House no longer than is absolutely necessary. In what condition does the planter then stand ? He obtains three-fourths of the negro's time for his food, clothing, and lodging. It may be asked, is it not necessary, in arranging a plan of such magnitude and import:lace, to look at the loss which the West India proprietor is about to sustain ? Is it right or just that on him alone should be thrown the whole burden of repairing the injustice which has been done to the negio, with the concur rence of the National Legislature, for ages ? The pies two must not be looked upon as confined entirely to pro perty, ho wever f u ll y t h e spec i es of property in question may be sanctioned by law; however frequently it may be made the subject of legal decision..—l will not enter into the abstract question, whether one man ever can con sistently with the principles of natural justice acquire a pro perty in another man ; hut I proceed upon the principle that if one man employs the labour of another, lie is hound to give him relief, end to take upon himself a portion of the risk attending his being so employed. Upon what then do the colonists rest their oljections? Upon the deterioration. of W est I ndia property. It is exceedingly daft cult, iu the pr esent state of such property, to fix any criterion for fleterinining its value. I know an instance of a West India estate producing 1,4001. a year, which was mortgaged for 5 ,0001. or 6,000/., and afterwards sold for 10,000/. All incumbrances having been cleared off, and a surplus left besides, it was sold last year for an amount which would be exactly covered by the produce of last year. I admit all that can be said, therefore, about the insecurity of West India property, and the uncertainty of its market value, but I deny that any effect has been produced by this upon the rate of profit derived from that property. IVhen brought into the market, West India property undoubtedly has sustained a fearful depreciation ; but in order to ascertain the real state of the case, let us look at the rate of profits, and in doing so, we have r sure guide in the official statements of the quan tity and prices of sugars as compared with the planters' own statements of the cost of production. Estimating the whole value of the annual exports from the West India colonies at 1,500 ,000/, we propose to. advance loan to the planters, amounting to ten years' purchase of those exports. We propose a loan to the West India planters of 15,000,0001. It will be a question for Par liament to decide in what manner and on wh it conditions that loan shall be granted, and how it shall be repaid— and further, if they shall be prepared to go so far as to say that they will not require repayment, it will be for Parliament, if it shall think fit to do so, to convert the loan into a gift. In the first instance, however, our pro position is to advance to the planter a loan of fifteen mil lions, in consideration of the sacrifice on his part of the fourth of the labour of his slaves. With that fourth of his labour the negro will be able in twelve years (if we have not fixed the rate of wages too high, which I do not think is the case) to purchase the other three fourths of his time. From the labour of the negro, in the first in stance, the planter will have the means of paying Govern ment the sum advanced ; and at the end of twelve year:; the purchase money of the whole labour of the negro will be at his disposal. Ido not state this proposition as wishing to bind the House with respect to it. On the contrary, I wish that both the amount of relief which the planter is to obtain, and the means -of repayment, may be fully open to consideration. I also wish to leave to the consideration of the House whether we shall or shall not call upon the negro labourer to contribute his share to the repayment of the sum advanced to the planter. It is quite clear that the repayment must be borne either by the produce of negro labour, or by the revenue of this country; it cannot in justice be borne by the planter. One or other of these alternatives Must he adopted. There is certainly a middle course, but 'into that consideration a will not at present enter. For my own part, I think I great object would be gained by calling on the negro to contribute his share to the repayment of the advance. I think it more likely that the negro will continue in a state f industry and exertion, if out of his wages for the fourth of his labour some deduction should be made for the purpose I have adverted to. To tell hint that out of the produce of the fourth of his labour something should be laid up for that purpose, would certainly be more con ducive to create in him habits of industry and of self denial, than if, having all his wants provided for by the planter in consideration of three-fourths of his labour, he should feel that the only object of employing the remaining fourth would be, at his own option, to provide himself with superfluities. In the latter case there would not be such a stimulus to active exertion as in the former. .1, therefore, do not think that to exempt the negro from contributing his share of the repayment is by any means desirable. I believe, Sir, that I have now stated as much in detail as is necessary, and with one exception, the plan which his Majesty's Government propose to carry into effect on this question. The exception is this. It will be necessary, in order to secure the success of this plait, to provide that, the absence of which has rendered so many former proceedings with respect to the colo nies, void and ineffective; I mean something of an executory power. The House will, therefore, be called u pon to consider the expediency of having in the other, as in the c tnquered colonies, stipendiary magis trates, to be appointed by the Crown, unconnected with the colonies, having no local or personal prejudices, paid by this country, for the purpose of doing impartial justice between the negro and the planter, of watching over the negro in his state of new-born freedom, and of guiding and assisting his inexperience in the contracts into which he may enter with his employer. There is also another object on which I ant sure his Majesty's Government will not appeal in vain to the House or to the country. I feel perfect confidence in calling upon this House to pledge itself in aid of the local legislatures of the colonies, or with out any aid from those Legislatures, to the establishment of a religious and moral system of education for the negroes. You are about to emancipate the slaves ; the old, after a trial of their industrious and other good qualities--the young immediately. With the young, therefore, your re sponsibility will immediately commence. If you place them in a state of freedom, you are bound to see that they are fitted for the enjoyment of that state; you are bound to give them the means of proving to themselves that the world is not for merely animal existence—that it is not the lot of man merely to labour incessantly from the cradle to the grave—(Hear, hear)—and that to die is oot merely to get to the end of a wearisome pilgrim age. You should endeavour to give them habits, and to imbue them with feelings calculated to qualify them for the adequate discharge of their duties here; and you should endeavour to instil into them the conviction, that when those duties shall be discharged, they are not " as the brutes that perish "—(Hear, hear.) Sir, I have now gone through the various points to which I think it neces sary to call the attention of the House. I know the diffi- culties, the almost insurmountable obstacles, which attend almost any plan with reference to this subject ; and I know the peculiar disadvantages under which I bring f Jrw ird the present plan. But I entertain a confident hope that the resolutions which I shall have the honour to submit to the House contain a germ, which, in the process of time, will be matured, by better judgment and knowledge, into a perfect fruit ; and that from the day on which this Act passes there will be secured to the country, to the colonies, and to all classes of his Majesty's subjects, the benefit of a virtual extinction of all the horrors attendant on a state of slavery; and that, ac no very distant period, by no uncertain operation, but by the effect of that machinery which the proposed plan will put in motion, the dark stain will be wholly blotted out of the institutions and practical policy of Great Britain.—(Hear.) Sir, in looking to this most desirable object, it is impossible not to advert to those who first broached the mighty question of the extinction of slavery, who were the earliest labourers in that cause, the final triumph of which most of them were not destined to live to see. They struggled for the establishment of first principles ; they were satisfied with laying the foundation of that edifice which they left it to their successors to rear; they saw the future, as the prophets of old saw " the days that were to come." But it is not without the deepest emotion I recollect that there is yet living one of the ear liest, one of the mast religious, one of the most conscien tious, one of the most eloquent, one of the most zealous friends of this great cause, who watched it in its dawn— that Wilberforce still remains ; I trust to see the final con summation of the great and glorious work which he was one of the first to commence; and to exclaim, like the last of the prophets to whom I have already alluded, " Lord, now let thy servant depart in peace."—(Hear, hear.) Sir, it is with great regret I have felt it necessary to detain the House so long; but, on a subject. of so much difficulty, it was imperative on me to do so. I will now, however, after thanking the House fur the patience and attention with which they have been so good as to listen to me, conclude with offering up an ardent prayer, that, by the course which they may adopt, they will fur the second time set the world a glorious example of a commercial nation, by whom commercial advantages are considered right in the balance against justice and religion ; that they will achieve the great object of extinguishing slavery, Jadually, safely, but, at the srme time, entirely ; a re sult the more valuable, if accomplished by a union of sen titnent, by reconciling conflicting opinions, by a yielding on one side and the other, which may make both sides forget their extremes ; and that they will exhibit a great and proud example of a deliberative assembly, vindicating their character, moderately, but with determination, and in a manner honourable to the nation of which they are the r epresentatives ; in a manner which will afford a sure pledge of a successful termination of the glorious career on which they are about to enter.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Sir, I now beg leave to move the following re solutions.—(The Right Hon. Gentleman here read the resolutions, which were published in The Sun of Satur day last, and then proceeded.) lam too well aware of the extent and of the importance of these resolutions to desire to call upon the House to pronounce on them hastily. It was with the greatest regret that his Majesty's Govern. :vent felt themselves unable to accede to a proposition which was made to them to defer bringing forward their plan on this subject. But, after the publicity which had been given to all the details of the proposed measure, his Majesty's Government felt that it teas important, in justice to themselves and to their plan, to refuse the delay, and to state, through their official organ in that House, the grounds and principles of the proposed measure. Having done so, however, I have no wish whatever to call for a sudden decision of the House scion the subject. If it should be the desire of any Hon. Member to have farther time to confider the resolutions, I am not only prepared to accede to such an intimation, but I must confess that I think it would be very just and reasonable. It will there fore he in the discretion of the House whether they will enter into the discussion of the question at the present moment or not. In answe r to a question from Sir R. PEEL, which was inaudible in the gallery, Mr. STANLEY sAid, that though the power of cor poreal punishment was taken from the masters, it was nut taken away from the Magistrates and judicial authorities. Up..n particular violation of contract the apprentices labourer would he liable to corporeal punishment ; but in other respects he would not differ from the Agricultural labourer in this country. Lord HOWICK said that, situated as he was, the House would feel how painful it must be to him to be compelled, by an imperatiVe 'sense of duty, to state an ',pinion adverse to the plan just unfolded by his Right Hon. Friend. The present was a question of which the importance had not been underrated at either side of the House. It was a question upon which were at issue, not •mly the honour of the country, but the happiness of mil lions. The proposed mode of treating it was pregnant with such fatal results that he must briefly state his rea sons for opposing it. It had been said that the first reso lution gave the slave the essentials of freedom ; but this was attempting to dupe the House with words. Th only distinctio❑ between the slave and the freeman was the condition on which he gave his labour, and that being the case, how did his Right Hon. Friend seek to get rid of slavery ? For three-fourths of his time the negro is to be the apprenticed servant of his master, not by his own free choice, but by a contract forced upon him. And what was that contract? That he was to give three-fourths of his time fur the food and clothing which he now received. Now, in the evidence taken before the House of Lords, it was stated that the value of the supply furnished to each negro was 455. a - year. So that the negro, for three-fourths of his time, was to give his labour for one-fifteenth of its value. Was not this a distinct mark of slavery? His labour would not be voluntary, it would be extorted by the fear of punishment. His Right Hon. Friend asked in what re spect the apprenticed negro would differ from the labourer in this country ? The difference was the greatest in the world,—it was neither more nor less than that one con tracted voluntarily, the other compulsorily. Was the plan intended for the benefit of the slaves or their masters ? There would be, no doubt, a dispute upon this point. If for the master, he (Lord Howick) most solemnly protested against any part of the system in respect to the pecuniery interests of the master. Whatever were the claims of the master on this country be had at least none on the slave. The sieves, on the contrary, had themselves claims for compensation.—(Hear.) But his Right. Hon. Friend might deny that he intended this measure for the benefit of the master. He might say he proposed certain parts of the scheme for the benefit of both. If this was the case—if be meant to promote the benefit of the slave as well as that of the mister, this should be dis tinctly shown. But it was difficult to understand bow the slave was to b 3 benefitted by giving away se large a portion of his labour. Why not allow hint to apply it to his own purposes ? His Right Hon. Friend said that though there was no difference between the white mau and the negro, there was a difference between the character of slave and freeman—that the slave had con tracted habits of idleness which he could not easily get rid of. But was not the plan of his Right Hon. Friend cal culated to continue that very evil ? He said that the negro had been compelled to labour under a system of force, fraud, and injustice. Why then continue, for 12 years more, that same system of forcing the negro to labour without the idea of reward, and solely by the idea of pu nishment? The necessary tendency of the regulations was to perpetuate that vicious association of ideas which slavery necessarily produced. On the view of the interest of the negro, therefore, he (Lord Howick) was prepared to reject the scheme. But there was another view to be taken of the subject, and one to which some Hon. Gentlemen were likely to give their chief consideration—the interest of the planters. He asked, what would be the effect of the regu lations on the interest of the masters? Nominally, the planter would have a right to three-fourths of the labour of the sieve. But how much would that nomi nal advantage really produce to the master ? It was not to be expected that the slave would voluntarily give up his time to his master. His Right Hon. friend had truly stated, that men would not labour dili gently and strenuously, except under the impulse of some strong stimulus. In this country, in every country where free labour existed, men were induced to work to avoid the pressure of want, and they knew that the reward they should obtain would be in the direct proportion of their diligence and industry. In the case of slaves, they laboured because they knew if they did not, they would be subject to punishment, and, therefore, they submitted from a sense of terror to do what was disagreeable to them Which of these motives could be brought to bear on the apprenticed negro ? Had the appr, nticed negro any motive to voluntary exertion? His wages were not increased by increasing his exertions. In no respect would he be a greater gainer by work than by idleness. He would do a, little as he could, not only from a desire to avoid tatigue, and to reserve his strength for those hours which were at his own disposal, but from a determination to make a con tract and bargain unprofitable, which was in the highest degree unjust. and to the advantage of hi 3 master. If the plan of his Right Hon. Friend failed to enlist the feelings of the negro, how stood the case on other groundi ? He has admitted that there must be some stimulus. The planters. and every witness who bad spoken upon the subject, con curred in stating that a slave would do twice as much for himself, in a given time, as the utmcst amountof punishment would induce him to do for his master.—(Hear.) This was the case even under the present system ; with the cart-whip at his back, the negro could not, by any amount of punish ment, be forced to give out the full amount of his power. Accordingly, the Colonial Legislatures had uniformly refused to allow the punishment of slaves to be dirsinishe,i. The abolition of the whip was one of the first improve ments pressed on the colonies. In the debate of 182 e Lord Seaforth (then Mr. Ellis) stated that there would be no difficulty whatever in procuring the assent of th , planters to this obvious and necessary improvement. It (Lord Howick) was afraid that Lord Seaforth was no aware of the real cause by which the labour of his negroes was obtained. The Legislature of Jamaica, however. refused to give up the driving system, and the driving system was still in full vigour in Jamaica.—(Hear)—an., in every one of the legislative colonies. The whip had been abolished in the Crown colonies ; and he would read the sentiments of a person of great authority, speakim: the sentiments of a committee of planters :—" It is only through fear of punishment that ill-disposed slaves can be induced to work ; and by the orders in council the slave managers are so fettered, that their power is inadequate to compel a proper quantity of work." For " ill-disposed slaves," we might say " slaves in gene ral ;" for, so far as regards unwillingness to labour for another, every slave is ill-disposed.—(Hear.) His Right Hon. Friend had quoted the number of lashes inflicted in the last three years in Demerara, and had stated, that ahhough there had been a decrease of the slave population, there had been a great increase in the number and severity of the punishments. He (Lord Howick) wished he had read the sentiments which followed from the Protector of Slaves in that colony, in which that able and intelligent officer added—" and three-fourths of the punishments have arisen out of difficulties in respect to work." The same officer said that seven-eighths of the whole punish• merits inflicted in the colony arose, directly or indirectly, from the same source.—(Hear.) A still more remark able fact was, that notwithstanding this vast increase of the number and severity of punishments, the eff..cts they were intended to produce had daily diminished ; that there was a rapidly increasing difficulty in compelling the negro; by any amount of punishment, to give that degree of labour which he was capable of performing. The Colo nial Legislatures, in rejecting the improvement offered t them, considered that if the present system was to be kept up in full vigour, the power of stimulus must not be diminished. His Right Hon. Friend asked whether there was so much punishment in Jamaica as in Deme rara? He (Lord Howick) thought much less, for as the number of lashes was regulated, they must be made up in intensity, and this was borne out by the fact, that in no colony was the mortality so great as in Demerara. It might be alleged that he (Lord Howick) was arguing inconsistently with his former opinions, and he admitted that his opinions upon this subject had undergone a very great change ; the more be had inquired, the more his views of it had enlarged. He was now ashamed to think how lightly he had imbibed the notion that it was all a delusion to talk of the evils of slavery, and that the slave was not to be pitied. The last time this question was discussed in the House he did not vote. It was brought forward at the close of the session by the Noble and Learned Lord now on the woolsack in the other Hoes., but even his eloquence failed to convince him ; he thought there was more declamation than re non in that speech, and actually went away without voting. When he wa• appointed to the office he lately filled, he became satisfied that the negro ought to have protection against an abuse of the power which the master possessed. But he was not then convinced of the evil inherent in the system itself, and it was only by the progress of discussion that he bLs cams convinced of the practical failure of the experiment on which we had been acting of late years, and particularly during the last two years a d; theid l n tl e ia g t ro i work k te t t was , e f s th a e ve P re res to en w t force to ean b d e m no a t in b t y ai ‘ n v e i d ll ' , the evil was less where the rnastei was an irresponsibl e despot. In Jamaica there would be cases of infinitely mon. cruelty than in Demerara, but th, total amount of suffering would be less. A good matte, in Jatnaica need seldom use the whip. The slaves in the island knew that the power of punishment existed, and therefore did not provoke it. But in Demerara, the slave knew that there was an amount of flogging beyond whici the master could not go, and if he could bear that, 6. :night be as idle as he pleased: practically it was thefact. hat such was the feeling of the slaves, and that they acter upon that feeling, If the slave received 25 lashes for being - gr A , -y • to-day, lie said, "t 1011 et?Aro fd-tyleiTow ; you • have reached y ou r li m it." I ois was, therefore, a source of strugele and irritation between master and slave, but • the punishment was utterly inadequate to I nforce a proper degree of labour. If this was the case under the er ler in council, what might be expected during the hours that the apprentice worked for his master ? The ne , ro would have no possible interest in the work ; he I ; he stand seven hours a-day -with his hoe in his hand, and would do as little as he could. An Hon. Member near ldin reminded him that he had said nothing about the slaves' subsistence.—(Hear, hear.) He wits glad be had mentioned that circumstance, because he might not per haps have adverted to the manner in which the slave sub sisted in Jamaica. The whole value of the articles the planter gives to each negro was 455. a year, and the only thin g in the shape of provisions was one-third of a leant of herrings, which was not so much food as seasoning for flood. The Noble Lord read an extract from a work en titled " Notices of Jamaica in 1811," written by a planter of 30 years' experience, who stated that the negro had a lot of land given him, from which he was expected to sub 'ist himself and family. If the provision -garden was un productive or insufficient, the negro was not allowed to Attain a supply from the stores of the planters. Such, with a few exceptions, he said, was the general practice from one end of the island to another. In case of ss ar v, brothers were to assist sisters, uncles nieces, and children , arents ; and the aged and infirm, who had no family, were to have recourse to the charity and benevolence of their neighbours. "It was the duty of the negro to provide food for himself and his family, and it was Iris own fault if he did not take the necessary pre cautions against want." His (Lord Howick's) ar. gument went to show, that if, under the• Order in Council, there was no possibility of extorting from the negro an adequate amount of labour, it was quite imposs •ible to do so under the system proposed by his Right Hon. Friend. The punishment, under this system, was to be left in the hands of the magistrates : and let him tsk any Hon. Gentleman who had seen agricultural labour performed, how a magistrate, when a gang of slaves was brought before him for idleness, was to decide the point ? Suppose they said they had passed the time with the hoe in their hand ; that they bad done as much as they could, Ind were sorry they could not do any more ; how was the magistrate to decide in such a ease? How was it possible to obtain from any labourers the amount of labour they could give ? Task work had been suggested, but:it was impracticable here. Suppose it could be adopted, how_ aver, how could a magistrate decide a point which de pended upon individual strength, upon soil, and upon other points which varied materially ? A negro of ordi nary strength might work 120 cane-holes a olay,. but the accidents of dry or wet weather would make a difference. Row was the magistrate to enforce labour from the slave—and when he said labour, he meant stre nuous, not inefficient, exertion—under these circum stances ? It would require a whole army of magistrates, —as many magistrates as planters. But the experiment hail been tried, under ten times as advantageous circum stances as it could be under the plan his Right Hon. Friend proposed, and in the case of white labourers too. The high price of labour in the Australian colonies led to the experiment of sending out indentured servants, who were bound to work for their masters on a specified scale of wages, and the experiment had invariably failed. The reason was obvious. They laboured without any inte rest; they had no object in their exertions. The masters were driven to resort to compulsion; the servants were punished, and came back more idle and stupid than before. There was, however, in this case no previous animosity against the master ; but the negro apprentices would have money, and many a year of drudgery to lay to the ac count of their masters, as well as many a raw hack._ (bear.) The white men entered voluntarily and by choice into the agreement; their situation was improved thereby, and, if gratitude was a sufficient motive, those men ought to have worked. The negroes, on the con trary, instead of a sense of justice, would be stung by a sense of injustice at receiving only a fifteenth part of the value of their labour. Then, whether the interests of the toasters or the negroes were considered, the plan pro posed by his Right Hon. Friend, if by any accident it should come into operation, could not answer But how could it come into operation ? His Right Hun. Friend said that he should pass the law by the authority of the British Parliament, and that there was no limit to the authority of Parliament to legislate for the colonies, ex. cept Parliament itself set a limit. With reap ct to the legal right this might be true ; but he consi dered that, in giving free constitutions to the colonies, this country had, practically at least, given up all right to interfere with the hoed legislatures, unless there was a I rong necessity for such interference. He admitted that there was the strongest possible necessity for interference in this case; but as the right arose from the neces-iry of the case, it should be limited by it, and we should go no urther than was necessary to do strict justice to al/ c'as.es in the colonies. But when the people were opposed to a ivas, it was very difficult to make it operative. How would the people of Jamaica treat this measur e ? Would the judges, who are planters, hold it good ? Would co lonial juries convict? His Right Hon. Ft lend must abro gate in his Bill every constitutional privilege in the ionies.—(Hear, hear.) It was only extreme necessity hat could justify this ; but did that necessity exist ? He (Lard Huwick) believed we could not trust the Colonial Legislatures to legislate if we allowed them the right ov( r be labour of another, which would be ens 'ting a coati. nuance and perpetuation of slavery. But on a d ffeient irineiple we had a right to act: let us say that every man is alike entitled to the produce of his own lauour—(ll ar)— and to judge how it can be most profitably employed for ois own benefit, and he would allow the Colonial Legisla tures to do what they pleased.—( Hear.) His Right lion. Ft lend admitted there was no competition to regulate labour in Jatnaicet, but unless competition could be introduced we could not introduce free labour. Unless competition was orought to bear on the mind of the negro, he could 100 notion of free labour. The conclusion to which he (Lord llowick) bad been irresistibly led was, that there ware only two possible courses to be adobted ; we must recognise perfect slavery a perfect freedom; the present scheme was neither. To leave things as they are was an evil which Iris Right Hon. Friend had argued in a masterly manner. He had correctly stated that the population of Demerara was wearing down. Various reasons had been given to Account for the diminution of the slave population ; but the fact was, that the diminution was in direct proportion to the labour exacted from them, and was regulated by the number of pounds of sugar for each slave. The Noble Lord then read an extract from a sworn return to the Court of Policy, Demerara, showing this fact. The cultivation of sugar was carried on by hired agents, who bad no permanent interest in the welfare of the slaves, and experience showed that their employment depended upon sending home a large crop of sugar, and drawing the smallest remittance. In the Anna Regina estate in Demerara, till the end of 1831, the quantity of sugar raised was small, and the number of slaves increasing. In the estate of Reedy Hook the attorney was raising a large crop for the advantage of the proprie tor, and to the distress of the slaves. At the end of 1831 Mr. Moss, the proprietor, dismissed the attorney of the .Ihtia Regina estate, and substituted the manager of Reedy Hook. The result supplied the comment. In six :nontlis the negroes on the estate had diminished from 805 to 800. His Right Hon. Friend said it was desirable to get rid of the existing system, but how, he had asked, was it to be safely accomplished ? The safest course was by fixing a date, at the earliest possible period, for the abselute and entire termination of slavery. He did not say this was perfectly safe, but it was safer than any other. If we proceeded on the scheme of his Right Hon. Friend, or any other, we should not bring our views to bear on the mind of the negro. He will be told he is free, yet he o n e i other u m lse u r s! will get no benefit fro m his f ree d om . Gratuitous labour e )swill exactedbe exacted by from ea s increased him ed severity. compulsion,and t together, effectreye i m aative, he might be told that it was impossible to apecti- : late on free labour. He doubted the accuracy of th at opinion. if we afforded to the Colonial Legislat ures. en si o t the e lwag exertdanger he themselves, trho ie f i n r agents he e carry ing plod act rouragement and assistance they would acq u i esce. T he s is propr ori n tl a od t u o t hht e : n e f a th laa e gsi gti y au c ifut l co ie e tri o o d l i o theany measurecolonies.n There 4islatures, but a greater danger in attempting to carry a ronaplicated plan, which was neither one thing nor the 'tiler. It would not satisfy the slave, and would create liscontent amongst the masters. What would be the .esult if emancipation were carried without the consent of the local legislatures? He confessed that only bad conse quences were likely to result from it ; but he did not . a h ri e t d i : apate bloodshed. The negro would gain all heas!,s b een anal what had he to expect from disorder ? Ith d ? How was slavery the colonists the power of resistance f ee withdraw it, uaintained ? It was by our military force; • suggested that the colonists would resist; but how far . had He considered and slavery fell to the ground. by the R i ght Hon if the country than that propounded secretary for the Colonies. His earnest and conscientious that it might with more safety be adopted, lie pl a n infinitely more calculated to benefit every interest -:ainion was, i l iough he did not mean to contend that it, or any plan :hat could be proposed, was entirely free from danger. Committing, therefore, not without anxiety, to the con 4,teration of the House the propositions which were the esult of his humble conviction, he trusted that they would ,n time, and under the wall of an overruling Providence