The Sun. — London, England, 1854-02-21 00:00:00

mmearousle --.-...... 0 ) pon the gnan• Peet In• s ; there tiara* 19 hhds, y lumPo ki to 00 :ast and re were and ex . places is rates, ai 1 to the sold At , parcel tea. on the clover 1r load. clovet er load. clover 9r load. IA Y.) N.E. ; T. Ar -ork.— ced re ds been g any iibited Dun e Wil ulster, , nobia, —Wil re and light. Left in red to wreck Wxn. vessel helm, IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 'ROUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) GLASGOW POST-QFFICE. Mr. J. MACGREGOR asked the cause of the delef in completing the Post-office at Glasgow ? Mr. WILSON replied, the delay was chiefly attributable to the people of Glasgow themselves, but the works would b :speedily resumed. ADJOURNED DEBATE—THE WAR QUESTION. On the order of the day to resume the adjourned debate on Mr. LAYARD'S motion respecting our relations with Russia, Mr. COBDEN rose and said, it was because, even after the speech of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) on Friday might, which sounded to him (Mr. Cobden) like the war blast before the crash of arms, he was still at a loss to make out exactly our position. We had been now so excited by the aggression of Russia upon Turkey, that we looked upon it as an affront to ourselves, and so had nearly forgotten the origin of this miserable quarrel. It should be borne in mind that in 1851 a gentleman, M. Levallette, presented himself at Constantinople, and shocked us by the "en rgstic" way in which he insisted upon the restoration of the Holy Places, almost as rudely as Prince Menschikoff did after wards. That gentleman (M. Lavallette) represented the Republic of France, and he it was who first disturbed the status quo about the Holy Places. We were told that, in the case of France, it was true she most handsomely ,withdrew her demand. (Hoar, hear.) But still, it must be remem bered, that it was France that first disturbed the status quo. It was heart-sickening to find that, after 700 or 800 years of Christianity, we were going to fight —the world was going to be deluged in blood, not for Christian ity but for Mahommedanism. (Cries of "Oh.") The hon, member read a proclamation from the Sultan, and a counter-proclamation from Russia, about the guarantee for the Holy Places. The Porte refused to give a special, but agreed to give a general, guarantee on this subject, and the four Powers then drew up a note with this object, which was approved by the English and French Governments, and accepted by the Emperor of Russia, but refused by Turkey, and words bearing an interpretation different from those previously agreed to by Turkey proposed to be inserted in the note. That being the history of the matter, the practical ques tion we have before us was, was it wise or prudent that Turkey should have been advised not to sign that note ? What did Russia want ? An oppor tunity of interfering in Turkey when she chose, pre cisely as we did with Brazil, when we endeavoured to make her respect her own treaties. It' had been said we - were endeavouring to sustain the independence of Turkey; but the question was, had Turkey any real independence; and it came to this—that we were going to delug e Europe with blood on an infinitessimal ground of quarrel. If Turkey were -a country with a population all highly eivilised—if a similar thing occurred for instance with re gard to Prussia, and after helping Prussia to get rid of 'her oppressors, we could then leave her to her own excel lent Government. Bat was that the case with Turkey ?He said, whether it came from Russia or from England, the Christian population of Turkey were looking for aid against their own Government. He (Mr. Cobden) at close of last session, when this subject was incidentally brought for ward, stated to the house what was now made clear, that it was the condition of the Christian population of Turkey formed the main feature of this quarrel. Lord Stratford had left Constantinople last year not expecting to go back to it,. and he was then entertained at a dinner by the British residents, and he male a speech there. Lord Stratford was, . however, specially re-appointed to Constantinople, and he (Mr. Cobden) would read to the house an extract from Lord Clarendon's despatch to Lord Stratford, in which he was instructed to make* strong re monstrances with the Sultan and his Government son the reckless mal-administration of the Turkish empire as re garded the Christian population. On 21th June Lord Cla zendon again wrote to Lord Stratford telling him to re monstrate with the Porte against the inferiority of the position of the Christian population, inasmuch as their evidence would not be received in the Turkish Courts of Law. Lord Clarendon further instructed Lord Stratford to urge upon the Porte that such a state of things " could AO longer be tolerated by Christian Powers. Now he (Mr. Cobden) asked what good came of an alliance betwe en two ,divernments, where the one asks the other to abandon the ctates of the Koran—which entered into the civil law as well as into the religious observances of the Turkish people. About that very time Lord Stratford had very properly caused inquiries to be made, through our consuls in Turkey, as to the state of the Christian population. Lord Stratford got a great number of these reports, which he (Ur. Cobden) was sorry to find so garbled in the blue-books. Those reports Lord Stratford submitted to the Turkish Government, and he wrote twice to that Government afterwards, pressing upon them wain and again the cruelties exercised towards the Christie% population. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cobden) said when he alluded last ses-don to the state of Turkey, the noble lord the member for Tivertou (Lord Palmerston), made si declaration to this effect —" I assert, without fear of con tradiction, that Turkey so far from having gone back dur ing the last 30 years, has made more improvement in every possible way than perhaps was ever made by any other country during the same period." (Hear, hear.) Now, he (Mr. Cobden) asked if the noble lord was still of that "opinion, and if he was, upon what intelligible grounds Le founded it—for certainly those reports of our own ()consuls in Turkey, and the language used by Lord Clarendon in his despatches to Lord Stratford, told a very different tale. (Hear.) We were asked to form an alli ance with Turkey, or to use a commercial phrase, to go into partnership with her, and he maintained that it was the neore necessary we should inquire into her present con dition and future prospects. It might perhaps be said that the diecontent of the Christians in Turkey was stirred sup by neighbouring countries ; but it appeared to him that the sufferings and wrongs of the Christians in furkev were so great that they must explode, and we might expect to hear of an insurrection among them. Ha (Mr. Cobden) did not mean to disparage the Turk because he was of a different religion from himself, but he re lintained that the majority of the population of Turkey were themselves Christians ; and they might, depend upon it, if Tur key was invaded by Russia, and those consular documents and ambassador? al despatches be true, we might send 20,000, or 30,000, or 50,03) troops there, it would bs in vain for us, with the great body of the people of Turkey against us. He hoped, e.t a 1 events, that the troops we were going to send to Thrkey would not be employed in settling any internal dispute in that country. but that we would carry out the neamintervention principle in that respect, at I all events. LosAing at it as a religious question, although he was not disposed to make it one, was there not a strong religious feeli n g in Turkey ? There was nothing but religious fa na ti c i sm on the one yid , and impious religious manifestoes on the other. 0-nor Pache made no appeal to any 'met the Mahomedan element, telling them, in his address, when fighting with the enemy, to be firm and courageous and to he ready to sacrifice their heeds and their lives for their religion and their Government. The appeal was made solely to the fanaticism of the country, and the 31abouaedans formed only a fourth of the whole population of Turkey in Europe. It was no patriotic appeal -it was religious fanaticism, that brought up troops from the remote parts of Asia and Africa. That certainly was no proof of the progress of improvement in a country, unless the being • able to maintain an army six months in the field could be considered such. He would not have referred to the com mercial view of the question if it had not been used as an argument by other hon. gentlemen, who contended that the war with Russia would have the effect of putting a stop to our Trade with Turkey. That was referred to by a noble lord in order to show how insignificant our trade was with Russia as compared with Turkey. He believed that feel ing, which he would show to be erroneous, was very much shared in by the people of this country, and that there was a feeling abroad that we were about to fight for pecu niary gaiu. He was prepared to show that that feeling was erroneous. It was not easy to ascertain the precise amount of the trade between this country and Russia ; but he had gone into the City among he most eminent merchants engaged in the Russian, Greek, and Levant trades, and he was astonished at the result of his inquiries, as he had not estimated it at half so much. He had been told that the trade with Russia, that their exports to this country were less than 2,ooo,oool.—that Russia was a protectionist country, and was under a protectionist delusion, as many persons in this country formerly were. (A laugh.) He had been under the impression that, their exports amounted to 5,000,0001. or 6,000,0001., and some persons said that even that was an exaggeration. He got his information from sources that might be relied upon. He had got the account from the different houses, an d here were the exports for the last year : Tallow £1,800,000 Linseed 1,300,000 Flax and hemp Wheat Wool 4,000,000 300,000 Oats 500,000 Other grain Pristles 452,000 *Timber, deal, and other woods 501000 • , Iron Copper Hides 60,000 Miscellaneous matters Making in all 13 020,0031. fie our imports from Russia. (Hear, hear.) That was in time year 1853, when there was a large import of wheat. The other house to which he *,pplied gave hiui an average year, making the amount 21,030,000/. ; but it put down wheat at 2,000,00 K instead of 4,000,0001., which made preci sel y the difference. He was info ed that, in addition to that, about 1,000,0001. sterling of produce of Russia came down the Bug, the Vis and from other ports in the Black Sea ; and he was milder the mark when he said that the exports of Russia to this country might be taken at 12,000,0001. sterling an erually. Most of these t allow, wer e articles of paramount value and importance to their manufactures. Ta ke for instance. How could their machinery or how cou ld their locomotives travel unless they had grease forwheels their ? (A laugh) With regard to inseed, the hon. member for Cambridgeshire knew that no persons were more interested in its supply than the agriculturists. They complained that the food for cattle was too high. Did they want the linseed cut off? As regarded flax and hemp, in the large constituency he had the honour to represent, if a state of things could he supposed in which they would be cut off from all intercourse with Russia, there would bo very great distress and misery in some districts in the West Riding of Yorkshire. Again, Russian iron was an article which entered into the production of their finest steel ; he was told in Sheffield that they would find it difficult to carry on the finest part of their manufactures unless they 'were supplied with Russian iron. He 'turned now to Turkey. It was stated that their trade with Turkey :amounted to about three millions. That was true, but he believed that only one million of what was set down as exports to Turkey went to Persia, Trehizon4, and central Asia, through the Black Sea. Turkey did not import for its own. consumption more than 2,000,0001. or 2,500,0001., . ' so th t they had a Russian trade that was three times greater than that of Turkey. There was no one foreign country whose trade was so important to the people of - England as Russia, except, perhaps, the United States ; and it should be remembered that all their exports went in - their own bottoms. There could be no ground; then, for the commercial preference given to Turkey; on the con trary, it was all on the other side. Now, with regard to th e wa r, he would not say a word except as to the means. Were they to convey land forces into Turkey, or would they not fall back upon the common sense and experience of twenty or thirty years age? What . would come of it if they were to fight battles 1,500 miles off, with land forces ? He thought they ought; not to send their armies to be mixed up with the internal con tests of a semi-barbarou ,, country. They might send 20,000 or 30,000 men, but th ey would find great difficulty in getting them away again. Let them send their natural strength—their feets—to protect Turkey externally; but let Om not wad their armies, Let thew look at France THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY 'EVENING 9 FEBRUARY 21, 1854. himself often thought so, but not precisely on the same 1 grounds. In his opinion, there never was a time when we could have so well escaped Continental med iling as the present. But he now came to what was called the balance of power. His noble friend said, the other night, that he was surprised that any one should speak slightingly of the balance of power, for it was a subject which had occupied the attention of the statesmen of Europe in all times. It would, no doubt, ill become him (Mr. Drum mond) to speak a svith disrespect of anything which was deemed so important; but, without venturing any opinion against the opinions of greater and wiser men, he would take the liberty of mentioning certain facts. They all know the time when consternation seized every Minis ter of foreign affairs in Europe because a Bourbon was going to mount the throne of Spain or Naples. Now, in point of fact, was France one whit more powerful after that event than before? It was notorious that she was not ; nor did he believe that, if the intension of Catherine—an intention shown by the fact of her christening her second son Constantine—of placing him on the throne of Constan tinople was fulfilled, Russia would be one whit more pow erful than she was at present; nor did he believe that, if the Emperor succeeded just now in seating his brother on that throne, we should be one whit the worse off. How could we possibly uphold Turkey ? We appeared to have found out that the maintenance of the independence of Turkey, our old, or, as she was inure generally called, our ancient ally, was necessary to the balance of power in Europe. How in the world had we never found out this before, when we took away from her the whole kingdom of Greece? How came we not to think of this before the battle of Naalarino ? (Hear.) He remembered Lord St. Helen's saying of this conflict that it was a capital battle, but we knockd down the wrong men. (Laughter.) How came we not to think of this when the Russians crossed the Balkan ? It was certainly singular that now, when the Ottoman empire was reduce 1 to the lowest state, we should come forward to uphold this tottering power, and do so tinder the pretence of upholding the balance of power. He read, the other day, a remarkable passage in a speech of Mr. Burke in that house, in 1791, in reply to some speaker who alluded to the importance of the balance of power. That distinguished orator showed the impolicy of our espousing the cause of the Ottoman Power, observing that the consequence of entering into war on her behalf would be to involve us in great expense, and to reduce the people of a Christian nation to the level of heathens. (Hear.) He would now ask, where were we going to war ? He admitted that matters had been managed with a _great deal of wisdom and discretion by the Government, but it was not very long ago since, with great difficulty, they persuaded the people of this country to look at the real defenceless nature of its shores, and to allow them to put' these shores in a better, but by no means complete, state of defence. It was then in fashion to cry up the Emperor. Alexander, and clown with the Emperor Napoleon. This year we turned about; and the Emperor Napoleon was metamor phosed into a faithful ally, whom we spoke of in pane gyrics, and who joined us in making war against the tyrant Nicholas. And what were you doing? You wore sending the elite of our army to the uttermost limits of Europe, or rather into Asia, leaving the Emperor of France to send his contingent—those reprobate troops—those con demned regiments of Algiers ; and when the noble lord talked of t .e horrors of Sinope, he wondered he did not think also of the smoke in the case of General Palliser. (Hear, hear.) He (Hr. Drummond) would certainly be no party to any vexatious vote which would tend to weaken the Government of the country ; but he should like to know who was to be the Minister of War. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Canning thought it of sufficient importance to insist that Lord Castlereagh should not be such a Minister. He (Mr. Drummond) asked this question, because all saw enough to know that at the present moment there was a feet le hand at the helm—(cheers from the Oppo sition)--there was a trembling of the topsails, and a vibra tion throughout the hull, that showed he did not under stand how to avoid the breakers. He was also without a chart or a compass for his guidance, and his crew was not a particularly united one. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Drummond) considered that the character of no general or admiral was safe in the hands of the existing Ministry, and ho believed, they were capable of sacrificing either of them to place or to factions in that house. They, at least, , lid not hesitate to do so in the case of Brooke (Cheers.) If, however, they were determined to go to war—if it were true that it was to establish the balance of power—if it were true that they were resolved to humble the Russian and to support the Infidel—if they would compel Austria and Prussia to stand true to their engagements, or make them take the consequences—then he would say, "Go where glory leads you. (Loud laughter.) Let them enter upon that path upon which France had already entered. — enter upon the course to which the first Napoleon was pledged, and the second Napoleon held himself responsible to proceed iu, and to fulfil the intentions of his predecessor —and strike a blow at the heart of Russia, and not go wasting their shots in the Black Sea. At least let them do one act which will accomplish all objects, and at the same time he but tardy retributive justice—proclaim the re-establishment of the kingdom of Poland. (Cheers.) Such an act would do more to bring these continental despots to their senses than all our guns and taxes. Mr. I. BUTT denied that this was a religiou s war. It was a political conflict; but this was the first occasion on which any Minister had come down to the house and asked for a war supply, without clearly and distinctly stating the grounds on which he asked for it. According to the theory of our Constitution, as laid down by every political writer of eminence, it was the right of that house to ask for ex planation, and the duty of the Ministers to give it. He asked—are we at war with Russia, er what delays the de claration of war? By the law of nations such orders as had been given to Admiral Dundas, which went to using force, if necessary, against Russian vessels, could not be justified. If Turkey was to place herself unconditionally in the hands of England and France, and agree to any terms they might propose, this would be a dishonourable and degrading position for the Porte, and its independence would be as completely sacrificed as by yielding implicitly to the demands of Russia. Mr. S. H ERBERT said that her Majesty's Government had no cause to complain of the form which this debate had assumed. It was true the Government was placed between two fires. They were told by one party in the house - that they had arrived tardily at the right place, but that they had taken the wrong road in doing so ; while an ether party told them that they took the right road at first, but that they hail arrived at the wrong place. These two lines of argument had been maintained with extreme skill and ingenuity ; and, if the Government had anything to complain of on the part of hon. gentlemen who had urged those arguments, it was not that they had criticised the conduct of the Government unfairly,—at least, in terms,—but that they were unanimous in having declined to test the opinion of the house upon the force and merit of the arguments they had maintained. The noble lord the member for Colchester had said that it was all but the unanimous opinion of the house and the country that these negotiations had been mismanaged. Well, if that were the unanimous opinion of the House of Commons, why did not the noble lord ask the house to declare that opinion? (Hear, hear.) The Government, he repeated, were placed between two fires, and they could not get, between those two hostile camps, any means of obtaining what opinion the house itself really entertained upon the question. The tactics of the Opposition showed with what success blue-books might be used by judicious extracts be ing made from them. Having studied the policy of Russia towards Turkey, they were ready to pay homage to her superior diplomacy and to the skill of her proceedings hi these negotiations. It was said that the last thing which Russia sought or expected was the overthrow of Turkey by Russian arms, but that her wish was to weaken Turkey and finally betray her to her own destruction. (Hear, hear.) Now, as it was the wish of the house that the present debate should terminate that evening, he promised scarcely to make any refer ence to the blue-books, and he certainly would not read a single passage from them; but he must say that the se lection of passages which hal been made by hon. gentle men who censured the conduct of ministers displayedmore ingenuity than candour. Ho did not believe it possible to conduct kngthened negotiations concerning great interests that werd'in danger and where a great number of parties were engaged in them as principals—he did not, he said, think it possible that in a book containing such a mass of papers, and dealing with so many complicated questions, any man who chose to peruse it with the mind of a special pleader, prepared to force words from their plain meaning, could fail ,to find many detached sentences upon which he might fix his censure. As a specimen of this sort of criti cism, he might refer to what fell from the hon. member for Aylesbury, who complained of the mistranslation of the words beau role. But the hon. gentleman read the passage from the French despatch in which that cxpression waslused as if it was intended to apply to the conduct of the English Government in reference to the invasion of the principali ties. Not at all; it referred to previous transactions closed before the other question commenced ; it referred to reports which had been made by our ambassador at C mstantinople respecting the conduct of France in regard to the Holy. Places, and which dispute he did succeed in reconciling, and thereby brought into closer connection Russia, Turkey, and France, who tip to that time had been the parties to the dispute. By that very success of .Lord Stratford on that occasion this country was enabled to form that close alliar.ce with France which had been the keystone of our policy ever since. We certainly, as a Pro testant nation, had nothing to do with the disputes be tween two sets of monks at Jerusalem ; we had nothing to do with that dispute until it threatened the peace of Eu- rope. He thought the French nation had committed a great diplomatic error in ever entering into that dis cussion originally, and that it showed great dignity in abondoning it, and in enabling Turkey to resist the usur pation which arose out of it on the part of Russia. It had been stated that the whole mischief and all the difficulties in which they ware now placed arose entirely from the ne glect of the English Government to use vigorous measures last autumn. 'He was almost afraid to attempt answering that charge, lest he should weaken the force of the very eloquent and argumentative speech of the hon member for Stroud (Mr. Horsinan). In the first place, the Government did not wish to avoid discussion as to the details in which they were engaged. But hon. gentlemen opposite had this advantage. They came to facts—they were criticizing the past; but the Government had no facts to deal with; they had only to speculate as to the future. And what was it gentlemen opposite proposed? They said that if, when the principalities were invaded, we had acted with vigour, we should have had peace. What was the state of England at that time ? We had no fleet in the Black Sea, nor any fleet in the Baltic ; while Russia had a large fleet—he be lieved 28 sail of the line. Turkey also at that time had no army ; while the army of Russia was formidable, in num ber at least. Lord Stratford saw the danger of entering into a war at that time. But what was the state of things at the present moment? Turk I had organized and trained and brought into the field an army of consider able power, and her alliances were considerably more fa vourable now than then. They should recollect for how many years Russia had been acting in close connexion with Prussia, and allied to her by ties of blood ; and the relation between Russia and Austria was that of a bene factor and a grateful friend. It required time to consentto en alteration of such intimate relations between those two countries. But since that time the manly language and patrioti c ex p ress i ons o f Prussia had shown that she knew how to estimate the proper position in which she should stand in lt urone, w hi le Austria now h el d a very diff eren t tone toward s th a t P ower, evidently s h ow i ng t h a t s h e now aeon. took a very diff erent view of her own interests from w h a t she did a y ear ago. H those theinclined g e (Mt. S. Herbert) was not one of o ground ask th a t t h e t h h o o v us w e e t r o o s e u n p t p e l o i r n t g t h i n e to Go vernmentaslight and paltry struggle, and when he heard it stated that Russia was not to be feared, and that we need not conceal our plans, because she was net formidable—because no nation of slaves was ever formidable—he must say that that was a delusion which the history of very great con quests in past times tended t oc isprove. It was disproved by the Russian campaign in Italy, and also by b her advance into the heart of Europe during the l as t was - • an d to say that she . could not make great c onques t s was to forget the history of Europe during the last century, it was most impolitic for the mere purpose of depreciating the prowess of Russia, to undervalue her capabilities of aggression and to deng her such aggiessiye reputation, as her campaigns in 1773 and 1804, as far as Austria and Prussia were con cerned, and her conquests in respect of the Turkish pro vinces in former years, justify her in claiming. Again, it was by no means a tenable argument to adduce in favor of the weakness of Russia, to say that she was a nation of , slaves since all who knew anything about that' country knew that, whatever the condition of the people might be, the feeling predominant among them was one of intense nationalism, and that this feeling alone made them strong. One marked distinction between Russia and Turkey, and one great advantage in favour of the former country, was this, that in Turkey the Government was Asiatic and the people were European, while in Russia the Government was European and the people Asiatic. Where a country like Russia was subject entirely to the control of her ruler in order to estimate her strength or her weakness we must look to the character of the Prince who rules over her, and in the present crisis, therefore, we must, take into consideration the character and abilities of her Emperor, who, previously to the commencement of these present unhappy differences, was held in the estimation of the world as a Prince of no mean ability, and may even now be looked upon as, holding, in the east of Europe, much the same position as the Pope would hold in the west if he were at the head of 500,000 men. (Hear, hear.) A great deal had been said, and much bad been made of the progress and civilization of Turkey, and it was very true that that country had made great progress during the last few years; but yet he could not in any way agree with the theory that a country like Turkey under the influence of Ms.homedanism could, under any circumstances, advance in civilization and improvement in the same ratio as a country under the influence of Christianity—(hear, hear) and it ought to be understood, in reference to this branch of the question, that we were not 'inclined to be embarked in this war, so much for the purpose of defending Turkey as of opposing Russia. (Cheers.) It was a fatal thing in a question like this to intermix the slightest partic eof dictates of duty ; and to lead away the people of England, like the lower branches of the press in many instances had done, to think that we were influenced in favour of the Turks and their cruelties and barbarism, instead of being urged on against Russia to resist her aggression —(hear, hear)—and he protested against it being said that we were not induced to take the part which we did in this matter for the purpose of keeping up the balance of the Powers of Europe ant resisting the encroachment of Russia, but out of a romantic feeling for Turkey. (Cheers.) He had previously said that he considered it a fallacy to suppose that, because Russia was what was called a nation of slaves, that therefore, she was a weak nation ; but there was another fallacy, also, still more incorrect, and that was, to say that a nation of free men, like ourselves, could not unite for war or combine for national pur poses, and that we could not make any sacrifices for national advantages when such advantages were to be secured by a necessary war. , This fallacy, he felt bound to say, the speeches delivered last year by the hon. member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, in his opinion, contri buted to diffuse; inasmuch as whatever he said had a powerful influence upon Europe, as he was looked upon as the great and successful advocate of a great question, and the representative of the feeling of the largest class of the people of this country. (Loud cries of "No, no," and laughter, from the Opposition.) If not of the largest class, the hon. member was a representative, at any rate, of a great portion—(hear, hear)—of the workin g c l asses o f thi s country, and as such, no doubt, his opinions were canvassed with great interest at St. Petersburg. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) In spite of any such false impression, however, we should now have an opportunity of showing how for midable a nation of freemen could be, and how they would exert every nerve to carry to a successful termination what they thought it their duty to undertake. (Hear, hear.) He believed that if last year we had plunged this country into a war we should have been called to a heavy account for having precipitately hurried on such a crisis ; bat now, in his opinion, the people of En g l an d were im pressed with the conviction that Government had done the best that 'could be done to protect the interest and the rights and uphold the dignity and the honour of this country. (Loud cheers.) It had been said that "England's danger was Ireland's opportunity," and he thought that both were present now. (Hear, hear.) That the former would manfully and with success resist and surmount the danger he had no doubt ; and that the latter would profit by the opportunity there was ample proof, inasmuch as the people of Ireland were already, with national and charac teristic feelings and, patriotism, coming forward to show upon this occasion, as they had done upon all others, how deep and sincere was their loyalty to their Sovereign in time of need, and unquestionable their bravery at all times. (Loud cheers.) It was a matter of sincere satisfaction to see the temper and unanimity with which all classes of persons seemed determined to act upon this subject ; and it was his firm belief that the sword which we had been obliged to draw in defence of public right and justice we should, at any rate, sheath in honour. (Loud cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I have always thought that one of the ,eauses of the prolongation of the last great Euro pean war was the ignorance of the people of this country as to the origin and object of that struggle. Even to this moment they are matters of controversy, whether the French republic, for example, was an aggressive power ; or whether, on the contrary, if it had been left alone, it was not a power essentially pacific—whether the, ambition of the first Emperor of France was an insatiable ambition ; or whether, on the contrary, at a particular period of his life a conservative policy was not the necessity of his course? Why we went to war, whether it was to put the Bourbons on the throne of France, or to reduce the limits of France, or to establish a constitutional government in France, are still subjects of controversy, though forty years have passed, in the pages of our most eminent writ ers and our most popular historians. Now, Sir, I have always felt that if ever this country were embarked again - - - in a war, whiCh might be a war of magnitude and of ge neral character, if I were in a position, however humble, which might in any way allow me to induce the people of this country-to.nuderstaiad-thecause and the object of the war in which they were engaged, I certainly would make the attempt. (Hear.) I have always been of opinion that every nation, and this nation particularly, would be much more prepared and much more willing to make the exer tion and to endure the burdens which a state of warfare must induce and occasion, if they really know why they were going to war, and for what they were going to war, than if they were, hurried into a contest._ by inflammatory policy or their passions, and carried on by an excitement which at the ilit -- moment may be convenient to the mini- ster, but which a few months after, followed by the ine vitable reaction of igabrauce, and perhaps of ignorance and disaster combined, no one would so much suffer from as that person who is responsible for the administration of this country. (Hear, hear.) Sir, there is another instance which is peculiarly applicable to the present position of affairs, and I confess it has always very much in fluenced me. Five and twenty years ago there was a con siderable war, and that a war between the two powers which had now mutually declared war—Russia and Tur key. In that war the two great westJrn powers, so often referred to of late, took part ; but they took part on the side of Russia and not of Turkey. By their union with Russia there was a slaughter at Sinope on a scale to which the late event, which we SO much lament, may be looked upon almost as a miniature performance. (Hear.) The present perplexed and the recent prostrate condition of Turkey was entirely ascribable to the events of that war, in which France and England were united against them. And I believe that certainly at that time there was not a member of this house who really had an idea why we went to war on that occasion, and what was the object which we intended to accomplish when we levelled a blow at the power of Turkey, .which is indi rec tl y th e cause o f t h e dangers, of, the perils, and theperplexing circumstances which we are now considerin g . . e e (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, I say for these reasons, looking to the past, I have always been of opinion that, if ever this country were to embark in another war again, it should be the first duty of Parlia thement understand the reasons a n t t le a d mi th o e f m th t e o a pe c o ot e se ce o l f arlY such importance—clearly com prehend the cause and object of the war. Now, sir, for L ay part I cannot understand how I am to obtain ' that knowledge—first, as to the cause of the war—but by stu dying these state papers, which her Majesty has been gra ciously pleased to by upon our table—(hear, hear)—and which, in language which a few yeeirs nem was not parlia mentary, are now called " blue books." (A laugh.) I know no other source from which I can obtain any knowledge as to the cause of a war ; and I know not any means by which some en who I can clearly arrive at w hat is the object of a war unless I first ascertain what is the cause of the w ar . I th ere f ore sir to the observations of those h honourable dismay have preceded' me in the debate, who have more than once inform e d us th a t we h ave no business to consider the past—that W e are mere ly t o consider the actual position of the G overnmen t o f th e country—and that we are not to inqui re by w h a t means we a o e n l o is u t a n b e l d e w ge it n h tle m have arrived at the position which we now occupy. I can not draw any coarse line of demarcation between the events that have recently occurred, and the events that are occur ing at this moment with respect to those transactions. I deny that you can distinguish at this moment the iesst from the fut.Lre of those events. What is occurring at this mo ment is occasioned by the words written in these very de spatches that are lying on our table. (Hear.) The polies , that is there developed is preparing that future which you say is alone to absorb our attention, and is occasioning those very events which, even at this instant, may be giving a new colour to the future, which you say is alone to be the object of our study. I therefore shall Fotest against the doctrines of the First Lord of the Admiralty, that we are to support the Government or to censure the Government, and that there is no middle course , for the House of Commons to follow when her Majesty has au nounced from the throne that in a moment of danger she appeals with confidence to our loyalty fer her support — that the country may be on the eve of war, and that we, under these circumstances, are to offer no opinion, with all the responsibility that devol ves upon us —no opinion upon those great public events, without being counted either the servile adherents of the Government, or those who have no object but to extract from the events of the mo ment the means of inconveniencing a ministry. (Hear.) I therefore feel it my duty to attempt to. ascertain the cause and the object of the war before us. I don't think that that is a mere critical object. I don't think that that is a task which merely consists of making obieriaticinsupon the papers on the table The right hon. gentleman who last addressed the house protested against the reading of isolated passages of these despatches. He says that it is unfair, and that it is a manoeuvre n o minister can protect himself against. Well, Sir, I cannot promise the house that I will read the " blue books" entire. (Hear and. laughter.) But Y will promise the house that I • will read very few extracts from these deepatches, and far from taking isolated extracts I will read these only with one object—namely, to maintain a position which I wish to establish to the house, and which I am sure cannot be established by any manceuvres in debate, or by having re course to garbled extracts or to isolated passages accom modated to the occasion. (Hear.) Sir, I want first of all that the house and the country should understand the cause of this war, because after the speech of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) on Friday night I think it is affec tation in laneueee to suppose that we are not virtually at war. (Hear.) Since the noble lord spoke we have had an authoritative statement that our last effort at negotiation has failed. - I therefore shall endeavour to ascertain what' is the cause of this war, and it is only by obtaining that 'information that we shall acquire au exact idea of what is the object of this war. It will be then for the house to decide—l don't say on this discussion of to-night, but - in the course of those debates that the impending fortunes of the country will naturally induce—it will then be for the house to decide whether the object is a worthy object — whether it is an adequate object—and if it be an adequate object, whether the means that the Government propose ate capable of accomplishing it. (Cheers.) Now, sir, I say, that it is the duty of the House of Commons so to ' consider the papers that are laid on the table, I say that it is for the advantage of the country that there should be clear ideas on these all important subjects, and that if we are to embark in a struggle which must without all doubt cripple the industry of the country, which must burden the people of the country, which must retard the progress which we hear so frequently vaunted in the house—that there should be as clear a conception as possible, not only in this house, but throughout the land, why we are going to war; and going to war, what we propose to accomplish by that last and desperate resource. (Hear.) Now, sir, the relations between Russia and Turkey have become of late years so familiar to honourable gentlemen that our duties in de bate are extremely facilitated by the knowledge which 'ex ists upon this subject. I remember, when I first entered Parliament, some sixteen or seventeen years ago, when this subject—the relations between Russia and Turkey— , was brought forward. The very subject itself was con sidered a project of some ingenious and eccentric mind. The designs of Russia were a frequent subject of a very small minority in this house. At that time the predomi nant opinion of the House of Commons and the country I was, that there was no subject on which there was so much exaggeration as that which imputed a systematic de sign of territorial aggression to the Emperor of Russia. (Hear, hear.) Afterwards, as the subject adyanced, and by the progressive result of frequent discussions, but dis cussions always at long intervals and in thin houses, there grew up certainly an opinion adopted not by a majority but by a respectable minority in the house, that there was a systematic design on the part of Russia, among other great objects, not only of possessing India, not only of effecting other great' objects, but of conquering and per manently possessing Constantinople; and so far as what was then called the Eastern question—so far as the rela tions between Russia and Turkey were concerned. it was always a question between those who believed that Russia had no political design and those who were fully convinced she had a direct and immediate purpose to conquer the Ottoman Empire. (Hoar.) Well, sir, this question has gradually attracted the attention of the country—circum stances have developed it in the country—information has been obtained, and that which I believe is the truth has been adopted by many who are entitled to the character and reputation of statesmen, namely, that Russia has no intention whatever of forcibly conquering the Otto man Empire, but that by an adroit policy and by indirect means she intended to obtain and exercise such an influence over the population of the Turkish Empire, who are subjects of the Sultan—Christian subjects of the Sultan—that she would obtain all that authority which would have been the result of her possessing perhaps the seat of the Sultan; and that, I believe, has been for some years the received opinion of those who are well-informed and capable of forming a correct and moderate opinion upon this important subject. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I apprehend that has been the opinion which has been adopted by those who have held responsible positions in this country of late years. I apprehend that that is the meaning which we d uelist ascribe to the frequent expressions of the Secretary of State in the papers on the table, which refer to the de clarations—personal declarations of the Emperor—and which I need not remind the house never appear in the printed documents in our hands. (Hear, hear.) I appre hend that they have received from her Majesty's ambassa dors, or from other sources, such distinct declarations on the part of the Emperor of Russia on this subject, namely, that he did not contemplate, under any circumstances, an invasion of the territorial integrity of Turkey; that her Majesty's Government—the present Government like pre ceding Governments—have rested with confidence upon that declaration. (Hear.) Sir, I don't think—if I may for a moment, and I think I am bound to do so—if I may for a moment read a passage from the despatches—l do not know that the policy of Russia—and it is most important that we should have a clear idea what the avowed policy of Russia is before we come to any final conclusion upon our own conduct—l do not know that the policy of Russia is expressed in more accurate language than in a despatch of Count Nesselrode at the beginning of January, 1853. It is familiar to the house, and if I read it, it is because the passage is but short, and in offering a statement to the house it is of great importance with respect to these decla rations that the very language of the writer should be in the ear of the house at the moment that their opinion is asked upon the topic. Count Nesselrode, on the 14th of January,' 1853, says, speaking of his court :—" We have always desired the maintenance of the Ottoman Empire, as being, take it all in all, the least mischievous arrangement for all European interests, which would not fail to come into collision in the East , if the gap existed." He proceeds to say :—" We will acsordingiy use our utmost efforts to avoid to the last, so far as depends upon us, without prejudice to our honour, whatever may be calculated still further to shake this body, at once so feeble and so tottering, at the risk of fall ing into powder." He says, in another despatch—familiar, I have no doubt, to every gentleman, and, therefore, I will only briefly allude to it, but it is right, it is fair, in order that we may come to an unimpassioned opinion upon this all-important subject—it is right that we should see that the case should be fairly stated for Russia as well as for all—Count Nesselrode again says There exists a community of interest between fifty millions of the Rus sian population and twelve millions of the orthodox which constitute the majority of the Sultan's subjects." And he tells you in another despatch, so late as June, 1853, that this claim of patronage over these twelve million sub jects of this foreign power the Emperor will defend to the last extremity as an assertion of his inheritance. Now, sir, I say, that at the outset of these negotiation the policy of Russia is distinctly and explicitly expressed. Ascen dancy should be obtained over the Turkish empire, and that ascendancy to be obtained, not by territorial conquest, bat by exercising a peculiar influence over twelve millions, the largo majority of tho Sultan's subjects. There is a purpose distinctly expressed and a policy defined in de spatches which are addressed to h'er Majesty's Government. Now it is not merely that the objectis defined, but we are no leas candidly informed of the mode by which it is to be attained. This influence is to be exercised over 12 millions of the Sultan's subjects, riot by conquest, which Russia disclaims and always disclaimed, but by the stipulations of treaties, by maintaining the treaties that exist, and by ex tending the spirit of those treaties. All this you see from he very beginning of this important controversy. What I may call the base of the diplomatic campaign was a treaty, and that was the treaty which has been quoted half a dozen times i-a this discussion, namely, the treaty of Kainardji. Now, I will nots presume to read the treaty of Kainardji to the house, but I think the house will agree that it is very expedient, when a particular treaty is the foundation of transactions of this vast im portance, that we should have a clear idea of that treaty. We have had great references made to the treaty of Kain ardji, and I think I can, without troubling the house, in a moment place before it the essence and the peculiar cha racter of that treaty. In article 7 of the treaty of Kain ardji there is this clause :—" The Porte promises to pro tect the Christian religion ;land the minister of Russia to be allowed to make representations"—now mark for what— "to make representations in favour of the new church of which mention is made in article 14 of this treaty." Now article 14 of the treaty of Kainardji, the only other article to which I need refer, is of this character :—The Court of Russia is permitted, besides the chapel built in the mini liter's house, to build in the quarter of Galata in the street called Bey ITglu, a public church of the Greek rite, which shall be under the protection of the Russian minister, and free from all vexation and exaction. Now, observe what is the treaty of Kainardji. The Christian subjects of the Porte are, by that treaty, placed under the special protec tion of the Sultan ; and Russia, interpreting that treaty, states that the Christian subjects of the Sultan are placed specially under the protection of Russia. Under the treaty of Kainardji representations may be made in favour of their new church ; but so cautious is the Porte, that the very street in which the new church is, is mentioned ; it is the church in the street of Bey Uglu ; and the Russian inter pretation of that article of the treaty is, that because the Porte consents that the minister of Russia shall interfere in favour of a particular new church building in a particu lar street, she has the power of interfering iu favour of every church of that denomination in the country, and of every community of the Christian faith in the Sultan's dominions, which • happen to "be the large majority of his subjects. Now, that is the treaty of Kainardji, and these are the claims which are made upon that treaty. I must for a moment call the atten tion of the house to an extract from a despatch, dated January 8, 1853. It is from Sir Hamilton Seymour ; and, as it has already been referred to in debate, and is familiar to every gentleman, I shall state it very briefly. In that despatch Sir Hamilton Seymour informs the noble lord the present 1-ader of the house (Lord John Russell) that Count Nesselrode treated as exaggerated the apprehensions likely to arise in Turkey and elsewhere from the appearance of a Russian army on the Turkish frontier. It was necessary that the diplomacy of Russia should be supported by a demonstration of force ; that a corresponding concession should be made to the Greek Church for any new conces sion made to the Latin one. Count Nesselrode expressed his belief that this alarming question would be satisfac torily concluded. On what did he rest his belief ? Now I beg the house to mark this. He rested his belief in a satis factory solution of this question on the exertions of her Majesty's Government at Paris and Constantinople to ad vocate the rights which the Russian Government were en titled to claim, and discountenance the pretensions of the French. Now I beg the house to observe how clear and transparent is the policy of Russia. Hero is a great de monstration of force; but what is it to do? It is to sup port the diplomatic= ovement. What is that movement ? It is a movement- to increase the influence of Russia over ,the population of. Turkey who profess the Greek religion. And how is it to' be ,affected how is it to be peaceably affected, that is the point? Not by a demonstration of force, but by the friendly exertions of her Majesty's Minis ters at Paris and at Constantinople. (Hear, hear.) Now, you see then, we have at once a distinct declaration by Russia of her policy. We have a distinct declaration that her demonstration of force is only a demonstration, but that her object is to be attained—peaceably attained—by tee exertions 'of the English Ministers at Paris and at Con stantinople. You know the power with whom you have to deal. You have the policy of that power perfectly defined. You have the object avowed, which is ascendancy over Turkey. You have the methods described, which are influ ences over the Greek Christian population, and these effected by Russian diplomacy — a diplomacy, of which, I may say, without using the epithets which the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London (Lord J. Russell) uses with re gard to foreign ministers—a diplomacy which I will not call fraudulent, but which is a diplomacy with regard to which a man, if placed in contact with it, would certainly, if he were a prudent man, be upon his guard. (A laugh.) NoW, sir, I want to know, with this object expressed, these means detailed, and this diplomacy to deal with, I want to knoW how her Majesty's Ministers encountered such a combination, and how can I obtain that information but by studying the papers on the table ? I think I shall be able to show the house that it is impossible for us to obtain that which is at' this moment the most valuable informa tion for the House of Commons and the people of England —namely, the object of the present war—unless we preli minary ascertain, and . I hope I shall be able to do that with extreme brevity, what has been the cause of the war. 'lt is therefore not to criticise the past- -or what is I think erroneously called the past—it is not to cavil with expres sions, it is not to garble despatches, it is not by quotations hereand mismanagement against T he ereiitnoi Ministry, at a m colourable omen t c o a f se n a of tional emergency like the present, that I am led to quota tion, but because I want the house cle arl y to understand that is the only mode by which the h ouse and the country alitowwawr:ohraivnedbaenegnerborfotbigehintginitmo mtheidsiapotesliytioant,wwahryblevceausaree Lan ascertain what is the object of this actual, of this me naced state of warfare. (Cheers.) now exhausted fact, virtually soon debate, of till, holy places. It was, in y soon settled at Constantinople. Even Count IN easel :Aches, expresses sir, it is mine ereosdsea:Tatfoar v m er e y to ea t r o l u y ch pe u ri p o o d n i t n h t e h ci e u se es N d toi e ow s u p , his surprise, but his satisfaction at, and his acknowledg menttihlaedFrneontchth. e Nor would o ic u r l d d 7, b.,dwell'(Lord of,j John upon e R o t h l s i minister' of state, for he said it was the Government of Lord Derby that was really responsible for this question. for Russell) reminded conci li atory poimrietno me that I once was a • Now, sir, whatever may have been the faults of the Go. vernment of Lord Derby, they need not look back with any regret or remorse to their relations with these affairs. (Hoer, hear.) The question of the holy places was not formally settled when we left office, but certainly it was the strenuous and confidential exertions of Lord Malmes bury that brought the French Goverunient to the right tone of viewing the conduct of M. Lavalette ; and I be lieve that had it not been for the preliminary steps which he took, the withdrawal by France of that envoy from Constantinople—l think under the circumstances a mag nanimous act—would never have taken place. But on the question of the holy places, Count Nesselrode tells you at an early period that he views with satisfaction, and even with' surprise, the conciliatory character of the con duct of France. Colonel Rose tells you at an early date, in despatches familar to every gentleman, that he had con versed with the French ambassador at Constantinople, and so far as France is concerned there never would be any further discussion or difficulty - on the subject. But all this time the forces of Russia are accumulating on the frontier. All this time Count Nesselrode is telling you that his Go vernment will seek an equivalent for the privileges which the Greek Church has lost at Jerusalem, the settlement of which his Government has resolved not disturb. Even the mission of Prince Menschikoff is at this time mentioned. What does Sir Hamilton Seythour say?—" Count Nessel rode observed that there was necessarily some vagueness in Prince Menschikoff's orders, as it was hardly ascertained to what extent the rights secured last year to the Greeks had been infringed ; that as it is not meant to regain from the Latins the privileges they have subsequently ac quired, the object to be sought was an equivalent to the Greeks:: Observe that, after that, we hear that the Em peror would insist on the promise made to him in favour of the Greek Church being fulfilled. On a subsequent oc casion, in an important despatch from Count Nesselrode to Baron Brunow, we hear that this was to obtain for the Greeks some recompence for the wrong which has been done them, and, above all, to secure them from further in jury. Now, sir, I was very much surprised by the ob servation made by the noble lord (Lord John Russell) on this subject the other night. The noble lord feels very deeply—l speak with the leave of the horse—he feels very deeply on this subject of the conduct of Russia. It is not merely that he is—l will not say overwhelmed, but—over come by the responsibility, and it is an awful responsi bility, of a minister who has advised his Sovereign to go to war ; but the noble lord feels so acutely the conduct of Russia, that on mere than one occasion in his speech, and in these discussions, he has indulged in the language of in vective, both towards the minister and his master. (Hear, hear.) We were told the other night that the conduct of Count Nesselrode was fraudulent. That is a very strong expression. (Cheers.) It is easy to cheer, but Count Nesselrode has for nearly fifty years sustained a great posi tion, and is supposed to be one who has administered affairs with peat moderation, with great wisdom, and under circumstances of great difficulty, no doubt, with great success • but his conduct is described as fraudulent. (Hear, hear.) The conduct of the Emperor, we were told the other night, was the conduct of a butcher—at' least, he had given orders for an act of butchery. Now, mark this— I do not mention it without an object. At present we have to deal with Count Nesselrode. His conduct, the noble lord told us the other night, is fraudulent. (Hear, hear.) " Nothing could be more unsatisfactory than the conduct of Count Nesselrode. He kept saying that his imperial master would seek an equivalent for the Greek Church. He was constantly repeating that his imperial master was determined to have some equivalent, or that some arrangement should be made compensatory to the Greek Church for the privi leges which it had relinquished. But Count Nesselrode never told us what he wanted." Wicked Count Nesselrode ! Infinite duplicity of the Russian statesman ! But does not it occur to the house, though it might not have oc curred to the noble lord, that if he wanted to know exactly and precisely what Count Nesselrode meant, that he should not have waited for Count Nesselrode to tell him, but that he should have asked the question of Count Nes selrode ? The first great complaint made by the noble lord of the conduct of Count Nesselrode, which in the end is denounced as fraudulent, is that he perpetually went on harping on the determination of the Emperor of Russia to obtain some compensation for the Greek Church for the privileges it had lost; but ho never told her Ma jesty's Government what he meant by what he said. But why is Sir H. Seymour at St. Petersburg if he is not to ask for that information ? Why are there envoys at the capi tal of Russia ?—why are there secretaries of state ?—why are there protracted, and distracted, councils in Downing street—(laughter)—if the upshot of all these individuals, all these ambassadors, all these ministers, all these delibe rations is, that the noble lord is to come to the house with the country in a state of war, that war having been occa sioned apparently by the intentions of the Emperor of Rus sia, and the great complaint of the noble lord being that the Emperor of Russia never told them what ho wanted, the noble lord confessing, by that very observation, that he never asked the Emperor of Russia the question ? Here is the gist of the matter. At this stage of the proceedings we ought to have said to Russia—" The affair of the rival churches is settled, in which we never properly interfered —why is there still this demonstration of force on the frontier. Yon say you want an equivalent for the Greek Church for the privilege you have lost. Define what you want precisely and explicitly. If you continue to make demonstrations when the object for which they were ori ginally made has already been settled ; if you go on an nouncing that you require equivalents and compensations, and do not define what you mean by a compensation, then we tell you that you cannot count on what you have de clared to be your great means of assistance for the peace able conclusion and attainment of your object, viz., the friendly offices of her Majesty's Government at Paris and at Constantinople. Now, I ask the house, was that ever said ? Was it ever said ? I can only say it does not appear upon the papers which are upon the table. It never ap pears upon those papers that any formal or precise demand was made upon the Russian Government of what they meant by equivalents and compensations. Those who speak after me will have an easy opportunity of confuting what I say, if they can refer to the documents and find what un fortunately lam not able. But Ido not wish to press the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) unfairly upon this point. I admit that the noble lord individually, not considering him as a member of the Government, is almost free from ob jection in this point, because the noble lord in the brief time during which he occupied office, made, I think, such inquiry as he well could as to the assembling of troops upon the frontiers, and other subjects of great importance. But at the time when the subject ought to have been pressed to the inquiry to which I refer, the noble lord re linquished the seals of office, and another personage be came Secretary of State, and I am bound to say—and I shall say nothing which I shall not at least attempt to prove—l am bound to say that from that moment there is a different character in the diplomatic proceedings. (Oppo sition cheers.) It seems acknowledged by Sir Hamilton Seymour, in one of his despatches, that ho is surprised at the change in the tone of Count Nesselrode—and I should say that it is evident that that new character may be fairly described as a bias in favour of Russia. I of course refer to the accession of Lord Clarendon to office. Lord Clarendon is Secretary of State, mind you, and the moment he is made Secretary of State, by a cu rious coincidence he is called upon to perform the most important act that a Secretary of State under tha circum stances could have to fulfil. For her Majesty's ambassador was about to repair to the very scene of these important transactions, and Lord Clarendon had to draw up the in structions of Lord Stratford. Sir, I have been rather sur prised that in the course of these discussions a more minute reference has not been made to that which really is the most important state paper on the table. The only person who has made use of it is the hon. member for the West Riding to-night, who has quoted a. passage from this despatch, and for what purpose ? To show that Lord Clarendon at that moment, as proved by his instructions to Lord Stratford, was totally ignorant of the resources of the Turkish empire and the Turkish people. (Hear, hear.) That was the argument of the hon. gentleman. It suited the conclusion that he was endeavouring to impress upon the house. His point is, that the Turks are exhausted, that they are incapable of any effort—that we are inter fering for a miserable minority of a people —that they are a race who can achieve nothing ; and he says—" I prove my case by the best evidence, and it is that of the Secre tary of State." Now I shall quote the language of the Secretary of State for a very opposite purpose to that which the hon. member for the West Riding had in view. My answer to the hon. member for the West Riding—so far as the authorify of Lord Clarendon for his point goes is the passage of the Danube by Omer Pacha, the battle of Oltenitza, and others which followed—the gallant conduct of the Turkish people—(hear)—but let that pass. lam to examine the conduct of a ministry whose policy is to support the independence and the integrity of the Porte—who for this great object have not hesitated to involve this country in war, and who are not justified in their course unless they have confidence in the resources of the country, in the character of the people; and unless they believed that the integrity and independence of Turkey were not mere phrases, but palpable and real facts. (Hear, hear.) But, remember that you had had the armies of Russia col lecting on the frontier of Turkey —you had had warnings of these warlike preparations from the Russian Minister. You had had the avowal from Count Nesselrode, that the object of the mission of Prince Menschikoff was a vague mission, but that, however vague might be his instructions, there was one result that he was to secure, namely, a great concession to the Greek Church—an equivalent, a compen sation. You had all these—you knew that the integrity and independence of the Porte was at stake—the Secretary of State was called upon to fulfil the most important func tion of a Minister under such circumstances, viz., to draw up instructions for the Queen's ambassador, who was re pairing to the seat of action. Now, what are these in structions? I am sure the bowie will agree with me that if we are to discuss this question we should endeavour to discuss it fairly, and for that reason only I read a despatch —I do not trust to my memory. Well, what are these instructions of the Secretary of State of a Ministry who uphold the integrity and the independence of the Porte, and who, to maintain that independence and that integrity, are going to war ? —Lord Stratford do Radcliffe is instructe , . to tell the Porte, "with all frankness and without reserve," that "it is now in a position of peculiar danger. " (A s laugh). He is to insist upon "the accumulated grievances of foreign nations, which the Porto is unable or unwilling to redress," and "upon the increasing weakness of its executive power." The Government whose independee and improve we profess to defend is to receive our dictation as to refor ms ments, and as to the development of its commercial resources: —" Its perseveranc e" it is told; "in its present course must end in alienating the sympathies of the British nation, and in making it impossible for her Majesty's Government to shelter it from the impend in g d i ai . lier T te he wle Sultanhthe of and his ministers hav e exposed t Christendom" are th en ascribed to—what ? exigencies To the ambi tion of Russia Was that - the cause of the exigencies of . Christendom and of the perilous position of Turkey which are pointed out in the instructions of the Secretary of State? - No; the cause which Lord Clarendon assigns is , not the ambition of Russia, but "-the unwise policy and reckless mal-admiuistration of the Sultan himself." Now I as k the house, is this the way to maintain the indepen dence of a power menaced by the Warlike legions of Rus sia ? Was it at this moment of its utmost need, of its utmost exigency—was this the moment to lecture Turkey about internal reforms and commercial reforms. (Oppo sition cheers.) And when these admonitions are coupled with a significant intimation that at this moment the con duct of the Porte must be distinguished by the utmost moderation and prudence— what is that but to say—what is that but to hint, that the Porte should comply with the demands of Russia ? Demands of course (I will make this concession to the Ministry)—demands of course consistent with the independence of the Porte : but the word inde pendence is to be interpreted is obvious from the insolent character of our friendly dictation. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, here we are. We have come to this point. Weeks, even months are passing. You may examine a blue book [an allusion to a member on the alinisterial bench so en gaged], but you will not change the facts. (Laughter.) Weeks, and months are passing—still the armies of Russia are collected on the frontier—still the Minister of Russia tells you there is one thing that his master will never change about, and that is, in his determination to have an equivalent —a compensation to the Greek Church for the privilege which it has lost, and means by which a security for these now rights shall be obtained. Still you have that important mission announced, with instruc tions—and still we have not the slightest tittle of evidence that her Majesty's Government ever demanded from Russia an explicit declaration of what he meant. (Hear, ihear.) Well, Prince Menschikoff arrived. at Coisatanti nople—l hurry over, or but will very slightly glance at circumstances which are so familiar to every gentlemen his house, and I only touch upon these circumstances at all that my statement may be complete. He arrives at Constantinople. I need say nothing about the despatch of Colonel Rose, one of most able and most ill-used of public men: (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) What d oes Colonel Rose tell you ? He tells you of the arrogant bear ing of the Russian Minister—he tells you of the secret threats of the Porte —he tells you that a Turkish secretary of state has been ignominiously expelled—he tells you that the Prime Minister threatens to resign, and that the Grand Vizier sends for him (Colonel Rose), and informs him that the independence of Turkey is at stake. He himself expresses in his despatch that the circumstances are most exigent, and that unless some step is taken, he can no longer answer for the independence of Turkey or for the balance of power. (Hear, hear.) He tells you all this. I hardly stop to criticise these important circumstances ; and if Ido stop at all, it is only to answer an argument which has been urged in this house, and also in the other House of Parliament, viz., that Colonel Rose, when he demanded that our fleet should be sent to the Greek waters, was precipitate in making that request, because he afterwards acknowledged that the arrival of the fleet was unnecessary. But it seems to be forgotten that it was notorious, not only at Constantinople but at Paris, that Colohel Rose had sent for the fleet; and that an alteration in the tone of the Russian envoy was occasioned by this announcement. (Hear, hear.) That was the natural in ference ; and whilst I will never quote from a private autho rity in this house, althoughin this easel possess the highest yet I say that this was the fact. Well, yogi had these des patches of Colonel Rose, and not only these desp a t c h es , nut you had on the the 19th of March (when Colonel Rose was writing) Sir H. Seymour—not a man who is distinguished by his want of confidence in Russia- -not a man who would be eager to describe the conduct of Count Nesselrode as fraudulent—and I should say as great a dip lomatist as probably ever flourished at a northern court— how does he write? Before I vrestune to read an extract, I beg the house to believe me that it is not merely for cri tical observation that I for a moment entreat their atten tion to this despatch—l havo an object in so doing—l have a result to offer to the house, upon the merits of which the house will decide; but I cannot fairly put it before the house with any regard to justice in the investigation with out referring to this document. Well, how does Sir H. Seymour write ? While Colonel Rose was despatching by every means and every opportunity the most agitated mis sives that were ever sent by a diplomatist, on the 19th March Sir. H. Seymour says, that he asked Count Nessel rode, " What credit was to be attached to the rumours, which reached me from so many quarters, as to military preparations in the course of being made?" Count Nessel rode answers, that he believed he might state that I had pot been correctly informed. Sir H. Seymour then in quires, " Does your excellency authorise me to assert that you are not arming, or am I only to report that you be lieve you are not arming ?" (Laughter.) Count Nessel rode replies, "I will not assert, but I have reason to be lieve—(renewed laughter)—that the tendency is rather to slacken than to urge on military preparation." Sir H. Seymour then says, " I apprehend this relaxation of pre paration to allude to the order for the purchase of horses, which has been rescinded." Well, after all this—after all the despatches of Colonel Rose—after this despatch from Sir H. Seymour, which I have just read, what is the tone of the new Secretary of State? What is the tone of the statesman who drew up the instructions to Lord Strat ford ? What effect is produced upon him by all that he read .and all that he heard ? On the 22d (of March) he writes to Lord Cowley, and of course reports to that able man, in nearer contiguity with him, his impression. He says, " I had yesterday a long interview with Count Walewaki upon the events that have recently .taken place at Constantinople." Let the house remember what those events were—the Turkish Ministry expelled, and the Grand Vizier announcing that the independence of his country is at stake, secret intimations thattreaties would be demanded that would destroy Turkej— the personal explanation of Colonel Rose that even the balance of power was at stake— and the despatch of Sir H. Seymour, showing how un satisfactory was his communication with Count Nessel rode. Lord Clarendon gave this as his private, but calm and dispassionate summary of all that had occurred to Lord Cowley at Paris : " When the intelligence from Con stantinople was analysed, and divested of the colouring imparted to it by local excitement, there was but one fact to deal with." What was that ? Was it the armament of Russia ? No ; that " Prince Menschikoff had declined to hold official intercourse with Fuad Effendi," the Turkish Minister. Lord Clarendon says he had informed Count Walewski that Fuad Effendi had resigned, " but Prince Menschikoff had not required this, and he had declared that no disrespect was intended to the Sultan by the omis sion of the customary visit to his minister." This is the summary of Lord Clarendon of all these events. Lord Clarendon not only denounces, I must say, the order of Col. Rose for advancing the British fleet, but he absolutely expresseshitnself glad that Admiral Dundas had not obeyed him, and even regrets the order given to the French admi ral to proceed to the Greek waters, treating France with this sententious dogma that certainly will not soon be for gotten, or which will last at least as long as the war, viz., that "a policy of suspicion was neither wise nor safe." Lord Clarendon adds, and it is of great importance to notice it, that "her Majesty's Government were disposed to place re liance on the Emperor of Russia's solemn assurances to up hold the Turkish empire '• " and that he was " bound to believe that the mi ss i on o f Prince Menschikoff was not of a character menacing to the independence and integrity of Turkey." Now, I again remind the house that we have no evidence, so far as I can recollect, in the state papers on the table, of these personal assurances of the Emperor. Ido not say that it may not be most discreet and wise on tho part of the Government not to give us the despatches in which these assurances are made, but in the absence of the documents we are bound to speculate on what may be their possible character ; and judging from all the antece dents in our position, it is quite possible that the Emperor of Russia may have said to Sir H. Seymour —as, I believe, he has said to great personages in this country and in other countries—that nothing would induce him to take any step to destroy the independence and integrity of the Ottoman empire ' • that he sought no territorial aggramlisements ; and that that was a policy which he was perfectly ready to maintain. All this is perfectly consistent with everything which has, up to this period, occurred on the part of Rus sia, and respecting which our Government asked no ex planation. Now, I cannot presume to apologise for react ing the language of a Minister of State on a subject of this importance, because, if I make the statement from mere recollection, I shall be told in the debate that I have given a false colour to or have garbled a despatch. I have quoted nothing from these despatches but to illustrate one idea. Now, what does Lord Clarendon write to our ambassador at Constantinople at the same time, " that our Govern ment feels no alarm at the reports of Colonel Rose—that we feel quite secure that the objects of Prince Menschi koff's mission, whatever they may be" (so that therefore, at this period, the Ministry had no description by Russia of what those objects were; but Lord Clarendon says)— The objects of Prince Menschikoff, whatever they may be, do not expose the authority of the Sultan, or the in tegrity of his dominions ; so far from thinking that Tur key has anything to apprehend" (and he goes out of his way to accuse our only solitary ally in Europe, and says) " our only grounds for apprehending embarrassment is the position which has been for some time occupied by France with respect to the holy places, a question really settled." Well, I am not surprised when I trace the policy of her Majesty's Government as indicated. through all their despatches up to this moment, that Count Nes selrode should have told our minister at St. Pe- tersburg, that he looked very hopefully to a peaceable solu tion of this question ; and the hon. gentleman who intro duced this discussion—and, I must say, in a speech which did not disappoint the expectations of the house (cheers) — who was quite entitled to introduce the subject, not only from his former connection with the embassy at Constan tinople, but from the great ability that he has Lshown on other subjects, and his general knowledge of the East— the hon. inember for Aylesbury (Mr. Lay;rd) very properly touched upon that very extraordinary despatch, which, at this time, came from St. Petersburg, in which we are in formed that the Emperor of Russia is grateful for the salu tary impulse given to the policy of this country by the accession of Lord Aberdeen and Lord Clarendon to office. (Hear.) In that despatch the hon. gentleman reminded us that we are told that the Emperor of Russia was grate ful to Lord Aberdeen for that renewed instance of his confidence—(hear, hear)—and the hou gentleman quoted a phrase which amused the house, and I believe has some what diverted the country—namely, what was happy irony when Count Nesselrode complimented Lord Aberdeen on the bold role he was playing (Laughter.) But I think that the hon. member for Aylesbury made a great mistake in that quotation, which was somewhat short if I remember right: The first minister of the country is complimented by Count Nesse'rode, not merely on the new and bold role he is playing, but that bold role - is defined • and what is that definition !--namely, that he has.left France isole. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, I will refer very slightly to thereat of those despatches ; but it is absolutely necessary, I think, in justice to the Government as well as to the point which I wish to impress upon the house, and at which I am now rapidly ar riving, that I should not leave out several passages, because I do not wish to be told hereafter that I stated the case unfairly. On the Ist of April Colonel Rose informed the country of the secret invention which Prince Menschikoff proposed. Colonel Rose had not been looked upon as an authority; but there was a timely vindication of the discrimination and sagacity of Colonel Rose, because in ten days afterwards, on thellth of April, Lord Stratford arrives at Constantinople, and confirms everything that Colonel Rose stated, not in thut original despatch, but in the des patch of the Ist of April, in which he gives a minute (Hear, t e r n s ' t d f o s r u s p w o o s til ethat a v a e n o i p e n c deedntthtehat eyes was o f those cou nt of the secret convention proposed by Russia. con w ed ho t a lk so much of Russian duplicity, b u t who h by ea LL r d is S h forgotten that there may be an English seem to have posite character. (Laughter.) Yet aft cina I y of an °P. of Clarendon writes thus—afterall er this, the Earl Colonel Rose is confirmed by the information from the h ighest authority, Lord Stratford—after Lord Stratford has announc ed that Rus sia is trying to obtain a which would secret convention from Turkey destroy its independence, Lord Clarendon writes to Sir George Seymour, May the 16th : " That her Majesty's Government being compelled either to think that Prince Menschikoff had exceeded his instructions, or to doubt the assurances they had received, they did not entertain the latter alternative." Now, when Lord Cla rendon introduces the question of an alternative, he says, " Her Majestys Government have felt the advantage of the frank and friendly explanations offered by the Emperor of Russia," which never have been seen by the House of Commons, and which enabled them to disregard the ap prehensions which the proceedings of Prince .Menschikoff, coupled with the military preparations, had not unnatu rally produced. (Hear, hear.) Immediately after, Prince leaves Constantinople; and on June the Bth Count Nesselrode, in a despatch to Baron Brunow, to be delivered to Lord Clarendon, announced the occupation of the principalities. Now I will not refer to that despatch, because I think that every gentleman is familiar with it, and if they look to it they will see the bearing of it on the argument I am about to offer. I say that that de spatch proves—if the view of the Government be right— violence and perfidy—violence against Turkey, because it announces that, because Turkey has not chosen to yield to its dictation in a course which Turkey believes menaces its independence, Russia had resolved to have recourse to force—(hear) ;—and perfidy, because, according to the view of the Government, Count Nesselrode had, up to that mo ment, been deceiving them. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the latter point, what does he say iu the despatch? lie says that, from thp very first he had communicated to the Government of England his intentions with regard to Turkey. (Hear, hear.) When the Russian army occu pies the provinces, the Russian Minister declares that his Sovereign has remained faithful to his declaration to the English Government, and that he did not conceal f rom them that the time might come when he would he obliged to have recourse to arms. He compliments the English Government on the friendly disposition it has shown, blaming France, and throwing the blame of Prince Menschikors failure, of all 'men in n the world, on Lord Stratford. (Hear, hear.) We Want to have this declaration of the Emperor of Russia want more than the declaration of the Emperor of i,u,— we want the despatch: We want the evidence of this early declaration from Count Nesselrode to the English Gov - won t, of the whole intentions and policy of his conntey When did she get her troops away from Rome, or from Algiers? What was the war for? • Was it a war they were about to fight on behalf of a balance of power and the protection of Europe ? Was the time come when the great contest of which they were told between Cosssekism and Republicanism was to be brought to an issue ? Was Eng land the only nation that was to make war for such a pur pose ? He thought the noble lord had rather broken down in that part of his speech when he spoke of Russia being the common disturber of Europe. It was very probable that all the states of Europe, except France and England, would remain neutral. (Hear, hear.) Let them take a glance at the map of Europe, and they would find there was between them and Russia, Austria and Prussia, and all the German states, Belgians and Holland, Sweden and Norway—countries possessing some 70,000,00`) or 80.090,030 of people, and having some 700,000 or 800,000 men under arms. These nations had been for the last ten, .or at least five years almost constantly drilling, parading, and manoeuv ring troops. Every ante-room in every foreign court was filled with uniforms either scarlet ar blue. Every one thought that it was to carry out the antiquated notion—the venerable delusion of a resistance to the Hans and Goths who were about to overrun Europe, and when they come to analyse the matter, they found that England was about to send some 20,000 or 30,000 troops over the backs, if he' might use Ahe expression, of the Belgian, the Dutch, the Swedes, tM Austrians, and the Prussians, the most mili tary part of Europe, to fight battles for their safety. (Hear, hear.) If, as the noble brd said, there was danger to Europe—if all mankind had an interest in the question —then he would say, above all things, it was a case in which all those who were nearest the danger should be the first to resist, it. Instead of Prussia and Austria entering into this quarrel they allowed England—and island inap proachable by land and impregnable by sea—to take up their cause. Ho would say, that, so far from England be ing in danger, she might be said to be the only country in Europe that was invulnerable. Without making any con dition that these oountries should assist us, we were send lug 20,000 troops, who were cheered in going through the streets, to be transported 1,500 miles in order to get be tween -Russia, Austria, Prussia and the rest of Europe. Was not that a specimen of the combativeness which was called John •• Bullisna ?-was not that a specimen of the conduct which had led them to incur a debt heavier than that of all the rest of the world put together? They were going again to repeat the same game ; their ap - peals to the othr states of Europe were in vain. They had said e led us to take this opportunity of putting down a monstrous evil. The answer of these states was-No, we do-not move. Why? Because we do not believe in the danger -because we do not believe that Cossackism is menacing Europe. They had a firm conviction that Eng land was fighting her own battles for her own commercial interests. When he heard the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Sheffield -and no one rejoiced to see him there more than himself-(hear)-when he heard him dealing unmeasured and unqualified invective upon a cer tain gentleman of the peace party-he said, "he is himself again." • (Great laughter and cheering.) It was said we must fight Russia now, or we should have to fight her ulti mately, and that if we did, not only prevent her from taking Constantinople, bat also cut her off from the Cau ce.sue, our Indian empire would be imperilled. Why this was just the sort of language to induce the French people to suppose that, after all, we wore inspired only by selfish feelings and for the sake of commercial superiority, instead of the welfare of the world. It was just the way to arouse the suspicions of our neighbours as to English "rapacity" anti "perfidy." And then if France left us we should have no one to join us in our war. Was there no party in that house who would contend that if we were to interfere in it at all, it s ould be solely by our navy, and that we should abstain from sending a miserable army of 20,000 men to the banks of the Danube, while the great mili tary powers of Europe stool passive spectators of the struggle ? (Hear, hear.) There were in this country not only those who believed all war un-Christian, even in self-defence, but those who, like the late . Sir R. Peel, thought it wise to allay the spirit of war by that of p cal propagandism or agitation. He (Mr. Cobden) was a supporter of that policy. He iesire Ito abate our martial enthusiasm, and to allay our national combativeness. It was a good quality ; he had it himself (a laugh), but he did not like to see this nation for ever animated by a pre judice for some nation or another -now France, now Russia, and for ever hurried on by such prejudices into war. Ha declared that he desired to fall back on the • Vienna note. (Laughter.) He saw nothing objectionable in it- -indeed, the four powers had agreed to it. And its adoption would save the honour of the sultan (if. rid of diplomacy) for that very reason- as it was not the note of Prince Menechikoff, but of the four powers. As for any reluctance diplomatists might feel at retracing their steps, or contradicting ther course, he did not care much for that ; the credit of diplomacy in the transaction had been so badly sustained that another inconsistency could not be of any consequence. At all events, be gladly embraced all the unpopularity that now belonged to an opposition against this war, and he believed that before six Months had passed-there would be none so unpopular as those who supported it. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. MANNERS trusted that the people of England would never consider whether they were going to war on behalf of the majority of the inhabitants of Turkey or not, nor whether the balance of trade was in our favour or the contrary, but whether the will of the Autocrat of Russia was to overbear that of the free Parliament of England. He thought great blame attributable to the Government for mismanagement in the early stages of the negotiations, Lord Clarendon having persisted to the last in believing the amicable assurances of Rossi 4, and disregarding the warnings of her deceitful policy which were addressed to him by British agents abroad. At the failure of Prince Menschikoff's mission only did the English Government determine to act cordially, in coujunction with France to check the monstrous pretensions of Russia. Hail they d one so ,at an earlier period, was it credible that that -envoy would, on the 1 ith of April, have received fresh instructions to,press his demands to the utmost? If their course hail been more firm, war might have been averted. After the Turks had declared war, it was unjustifiable in Government to hold out the renewal of the treaty of Kid narilji as a basis of negotiation and peace, that treaty having furnished Russia with her pretexts for vexatious interference. With reference to the demand of Ministers for a vote of censure on the one hand, or unlimited con fidence on the other, be contended that the course taken by the Opposition was' the only one compatible with a re solve to anstain from emberrasing the future action of her Majesty's Government. They would vote men and money, and support any measures that might be necessary in the situation in which the country was placed, but they must express the opinions they hail formed on the past con duct of the negotiations. He hoped that the efierts of our arms in the coming contest would not be- frustrated and sacrificed by the blunders of our diplomacy. Mr. HORSIIA.N thought it would have been better to • raise this question by a distinct motion than by an inci dental and desultory discussion. He must express his re gret at the toe° of the speech delivered, by the hon. mem ber for the West Riling, and his dissent from m my of its positions and arguments. The question now was nothin" etore nor less than this -shall the Emperor of Russia be Emperor of Turkey also? The conquest of Turkey, fol .lowed as it would be assuredly by that of Greece, implied not only the extension of Russian dominion from the White Sea to the .11Ieiliterranean, but dictatorship over Europe, and the ascendency of a semi barbarous race over the more civilized, intellectual, and enlightened nations of the West The balance of power woolwoul•I be de-troyed, 'the commerce of England endangered, her Indian empire more than threatened, and the liberties of Europe at an end. Never in modern history hail there been such a crime as the Russian attack on Turkey, accompanied by aggravations so revolting; and the pretext offered for it, the protection of religion, added to its infamy.. During the progress of hos tilities,- the Turks had proved their moral superiority to their enemies, and entitled themselves to the a I miration• of Europe. Throughout the negotiations, the position of ,Government hail been one of great difficulty, and no other course had been suggested which, if adopted by Min isters, would not have bean equally doubtful at the time, and probably more disastrous in its issue. The object of the Government hail been to reconcile the settlement of great European questions with the warding off the calami ties of war. But if war was inevitable, as he believed it to have been from the first, it was impossible we could have been placed in a combination of circumstances so advanta geous to us . giving life to our movements and union to our councils. If England and France were true to their own honour and interests, the Czar was now at their mercy, and he must accede to any terms they might dictate. Ho wished, however, the noble lord the member for London had comforted the house the other night by assuring them that they were not going to war to re-establish the status quo and the renewal of the old treaties. It was our duty to take effectual guarantees for the future ; and, in order that the aggression on Turkey might not be repeated, he :rusted that one of the conditions of peace would be that Russia shotild. make indemnity for the expenses of the war, or that Turkey should receive compensation in havin the I territories of which she had been deprived restored to her. Mr. H. DttUSIIIO NID hail learned that ministers were going to war, but could net imagine among which class in the country t ey could expect support. The manufac— turers were ready to make arms for the enemy ; the tax payers Would soon discover • that every additional burden must ultimately fall upon industry; and the Opposition, though ready enough to pass votes which were soon to lead the ministry- into a mess, would infallibly turn every event to account: for the: purpose of dislodging the Government, whose members would • then in their torn play the same game against their successors. When the people of this country wore entering upon a war, it was right and proper that they should be told why they were going to war. Ho confessed that, after all he had read in the blue book and heard in that house, he did not know. But he believed that we were entering upon another religious war—ano ther crusade for the tomb of Geoffrey de Bouillon, which was already so l , roken Lb t it was hardly perceptible, and into doing that they bad been led by the author of all ins chief—the Pope. (Laughter.) Upon England the re sult of the war could be only damaging—we should anxious was t have rs nothing but hard blows to get and heavy bills to pay. the popular war into which the whole country was to excite that aos:a: tyhwanast,henho hen. gentleman plunge. The co t • doubt, with Russia; but he must v that no one had more con tributedbehind him (Mr. Cobde " cra: n piing -nip that Powerl). who even at one time talked of altogether. If the hon.. gen tleman would put that threat into execution now, it would save a world-of trouble. (Laughter.) Mr. Drummond then referred to the pri mar y cause of the the question -of the IL , ly Places, dispute, arising from and contended that the war, instead of being waged, asin pretended, on behalf of the ,balance -of power, w as Lord J. Russell-. in one o f his reality a religious war despatches said—" We should deeply regret any dispute that might lead to con flict between-- two of the great Powers of when we reflect that the quarrel is for exclusive ; but vorvileges in a spot near which the heavenly host proclaim on earth and good will towards men—when we ar m? churches contending for mastery in the very p ia - • e ee rival ire Christ died for•mankind—the thought of such a spectacle w is very melancholy indeed. Your excellency will under stand, therefore, first. that into the merits of this dispute her Majesty's Government will not enter. 2,1, That her Majesty's Government disapprove of every threat, and still more of the actual e mployment of force. 3,1, That both parties should be told that if they are sincere in their professions of a desire to maintain the independence of the Porte, they ought to abstain from the employment of any means calculated to display the weakness of the Ottoman empire. Above all, they ought to refrain from puttin; armies and fleets in motion for the purpose of making the_ tomb of Christ a cause of quarrel among Christians." He thought these expressions were creditable to the writer, to the Sovereign whom he served, and the Ministry of which he formed a part. But still , the qu estion returned, why was . pot the country told all this a year ago ? (Hear.) They were -told little, but it was said that much was being done. That reminded him of a story of a High lander, who, returning from abr ad, brought with him a parrot, which spoke exceedingly well, as a present to his lady-love. Another Highlander, determined to make a similar present to his fair one, went to Edinburgh and -purchased an. owl. He was reminded that it could not talk, . to which he replied, "Ay, but seewhat apower of thOught he has." (Great laughter.) It had been .said, and chiefly by gentlemen on that side of the house, that we interfered great deal too mach with Coutinontol mattero• Se had .~ port, ; two from :jinn; a ex ber f:om rable The tport atm must TO as the earn iher St. .affe hr am Re. k,\ ~;~- •,, I a