The Sun. — London, England, 1854-05-23 00:00:00

MEW ho n d, )s- IMPERIAL PARLI AME NT. HOUSE OF COMMONS—(YESTERDAY.) WAYS AND MEANS. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then moved that the Speaker do leave the chair. Mr. T. BARING said he felt it necessary to say that he ?should postpone the amendment of which he had given no tice, on the proposition of going into ways and means, till the house went into committee. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, so far as the Government were concerned there was no change whatever in their intentions or announcements. He could not understand how there could be any misunderstanding as to the order of proceeding, for he had been most careful to state That they should first take votes on all the new taxes, and it was for that reason that he now moved that the house should go into committee. Mr. DISRAELI said that was certainly not the order of proceeding they understood was to be followed. Ho did understand the report of the formal resolution was to have been brought forward last Monday, in order that the opi nion of the house should be taken on it. (Flew, hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL sail he thought it was perfectly clear that either the report or the further resolutions in committee should be taken when the motion was brought on. (Hear.) Mr. T. BARING said he certainly had understood that the original resolution should be proceeded with first ; but as that was not to be the case, he must now move that amendment in committee which ho had intended to submit to the whole house. He certainly did wish he could give a silent vote on this occasion, looking at the great and pe culiar difficulties of the times—difficulties which he would say arose from the mismanagement of the finances last Year, and from the unwise conduct of her Majes• ty's Government. (Hear, hear, hear.) Thinking, as he did, that the financial measures adopted last year were wanting in prudence, and had been unsuccessful, he could not now give a silent vote on the present measures. He thought the Exchequer-bill market was amost valuable resource for any Minister, but that market must be main tained by the Chancellor of the Exchequer shaping his operations according to transactions elsewhere, and a con viction that Exchequer-bill hollers can always obtain their money whenever they wanted to change their investments. The sum of 652,4561. of stock of the funded debt of savings were had been sold to buy up Exchequer bills, and they again converted to the funded debt of the country, entailing an additional lueden on the debt of the country ~..03,000/.—and that was caus-d by the conduct of the Government with respect to the financial measures of last year. He hoped that for the future the finance of France - would not be made the basis for that of a finance Minister of this country; f or it could not be creditable to compare the finance of a coantry like England, whose resources or credit have never been doubted, with that of a coun try like France, which, whatever its resources might be, was only just recovering from a general and total con vulsion. (Hear, hear.) He approved of the desire of her Majesty's Ministers for preserving peace, but if there was the slightest speck of a cloud of a disturbing canse abroad they ought to have paused last April (1853) when they proposed their financial measures—(hear),—and there 'was in the blue book a letter from Lord Clarendon on tne movements of troops towards the Russian frontiers, Which should of itself hove given them that warning. He could not then but say they ought not allow this resolution to Peas withoutsaying more caution should have been exercised it the past, and that more prudence should be observed for the future. (Hear.) He could not imagine that between a reasonable Chancellor of the Exchequer and a prudent go vernor of the Bank of England, there should be anything t hat could not be reconciled, for the benefit both of public and of private credit. (Hear, hear). And whilst he allowed that deficiency bills might be resorted to in an emergency, yet if the Bank were forced to raise its interest on these bills, they would not have great advantages, but they would have the disadvantage that they might have to ask the Bank for money, which the Bank could not grant without serious restrictions upon the commerce of the country. (Hear, hear.) The Bank had always been ready to meet the demands of the Government, and for this rea son it was the earthen vessel, while the Government was bills might of iron. But while he would allow that deficiency might occasionally be resorted to, he thought that If they were to have a rule at all, the most prudent rule Would-be to keep a balance in hand, so that the wants of the Government might be supplied out of the previous l ather than the future income. (Hear, hear.) They had heard something, indeed, of a little loss sustained by the Public from allowing large balances to be in the Bank with out interest; but the gain from adopting the opposite course would not be so great after all. The Goverument of this country was a large borrower, and they must keep ,the state o f th e Exchequer Bill market in mind. If by - Lowering their balauces they forced the Bank to raise its rate of interest, not only would they have to pay that en hanced rate on what they borrowed from the Beak, but t hey would have to pay a larger interest on the floating debt. (Hear, hear.) Besides, they might have to ask for money which the Bank could not afford without incon veniencin the trade and commerce of the country; and that again, he need not say, would recoil on the prosperity of the Exchequer. He thought that the policy which the light hon. gentleman had laid down as that which was to he the future policy of the Government, namely, to look to tleficiency bills to a grear or less extent for e supply of the daily wants of time public th service, was as a principle— exceptions were of course to be allowed—but it, was, as a rule, impolitic. (Cheers.) He had said thus much upon th e policyof the Government; but if the house would ex cuse him he would now proceed to make some remarks upon the present position of the finance of this country. (Cheers.) The right hon. gentleman on the 6th of March ' L aid there were three ways in which the wants of the Ex chequer might be met, namely, by a system of loans, of in direct taxation, and of direct taxation. The right hon. gentleman had adopted the last ; but he did not pledge himself, if the war lasted, that he might not have to have recourse to indirect taxation, and that, strong as was his feeling against loans, he might not be eventually forced to adopt that course. He (Mr. Baring) shared with the right hon. gentleman's feelings with regard to increasing the National Debt. (Hear.) So far as he had taken part in the debates of that house, it had generally been to rebuke the Government for not keeping sufficiently large balances to be applied to the gradual extinction of that debt ; for he was one who thought that the gradual extinction of that debt in time of peace ought to have been made a more pro minent feature in our finance than had been the case. (Hear.) Not, indeed, by fits and starts, by paying off ten millions at par when it could have been bought at 85 — (cheers)--but by such a regular process as would have en abled the minister, not only to have reduced the capital, but even to have dealt with the interest. The right hon. gentleman had professed great reluctance to resort to a loan ; hut he thought the right hon. gentleman was hardly sincere in the language he had so properly held upon that subject. When he had made use of the savings banks funds to increase the national debt, and when he put forward his scheme to reduce the interest to 24 per cent. by increasing the capital of the debt ten millions, the right hon. gentle man was certainly not so coy. The right hon. gentleman had censured the imprudence of Mr. Pitt in raising 180 millions by loans in six years ; but he did not seem to reflect on the difficulty Mr. Pitt must have had to raise 3J or 40 millions a year by taxation without making the war unpopular or too severely straining the national resources. The right bon, gentleman said his own a tempt to raise six millions Was not a loan ; but surely its being borrowed for two, f e ° ll r, or even six years, would not make it less a loan. ',Hear, hear.) But was the right hon gentleman so sure that he should be able to pay these bonds, when they be came due, without inconvenience ? Or was he even sure that he should then be Chancellor of the Exchequer ? (He•tr, hear.) The then Chancellor of the Exchequer might talk of the right hon . . gentleman as he now talked of Mr. -ritt, (A. laugh.) He might say, " I have the greatest veneration for the name of Gladstone—(laughter)—but I hal he had not begun his war with these ad interim fi nances. (Hear, hear.) He was a great Chancellor of the E xchequer, but he made these petty loan s at short dates, W hich so puzzle me. (Laughter.) He was anxious to _ la se his country from burdens, but he has great l y embar rassed me w h o have to pay these loans with an em p t y ex -I,cuequer, and a country impoverished with war. I Hear , ` ii ea r-) Yet Gladstone was a great financier; for he eau .„-"yroade the House of Commons think he was not bor slwtug at all." (Loud laughter.) The sum which the "ght " hon. gentleman wanted was 3,543,003/., of Which the house had already granted 2,0 ,0,00 J/. by v this loan, and a million and a half was therefore what n ow remained to be raised. He (Mr. Baring) believed hat under any other circumstances than those in which P l aced right ho no u r able gentleman had most unfortunately P l aced the Exchequer-bill market, he might easily have erelired the money by Exchequer-bills. (Hear, hear.) If, wever the Government wished to Lemke a loan, let them it openly, and call it a loan. (Mr. Gladstone, " Hear, hear.") He understood by that ceeer that the right hon. gentleman said it was a loan. It was then a loan, and Oei made under great disadvantages, for they borrowed a t 4 per cent., and hound them selves to pay off the debt Within a certain time. He (Mr. Baring) should at all events propose, if the Government gave the option of pay bleat to the bondholders at all that the period should be air years instead of four ; because then the terminable annuities would have fallen in and the Government would have something wherewith to meet the demand. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman's loan had not hitherto been very successful, and yet it seemed preposterous that a scheme should fail which involved the payment of 34 per cent. for four years. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman had said that he had to combat with great obstacles, with the monied power of this country, and that that monied power had been constantly anxious for war, in order that they might make colossal fortunes, as heroes were anxious for war that they might distinguish themselves. He thought it would have been allowed that, at someperiod, the bankers and capitalists of the City of London had rendered good service to the state ; but the right hon. gentleman con s id ere d t h em as t h e vampires that Bricked its life-blood. (Hear, hear.) He said that Mr. Pitt was only called a heaven-born minister because he made loans; but might it not be that the term was applied to Mr. Pitt because he was always successful in his operations ; and the right hon. gentleman certainly could not claim to be " heaven-born" in that sense. (Cheers and laughter.) He would tell the right hon. gen tleman that it had been his lot, in his vocation, to have some dealings with those connected with the monied power of this country ; and he did not believe them to be so bad, !L.? Powerful, or so useless as the ri g ht hon. gentleman did. He tried to cast an odium on those who were striving to m ake colossal fortunes. Actuated by this feeling, w ith what pleasure the right hon. gentleman must have doubled the income tax ; anti with what pride and pleasure t i t co untry must know that there we re colossal fortunes whthe could meet the increased taxation. ( Hear, hear.) But !tooled interest were not so powerful as the right hon. gen tleman supposed. They did but refl ect p ublic opinion ; t hey were but the middle men, who cond ucted the dealings between those who had large fortunes and t hose who had °Mall on es . Th e y were but the represe ntatives of public °Pinio n_; and the reason why the right hon. gentle man f ound that they had not aided him was in re alit y because , s had not offered them anything which the public wanted to buy. (Hear, hear.) It was those who had dissented from. the right hon. gentleman's conversion scheme that had made their fortunes—those who had taken their money instead of his new stocks. (Cheers.) And now the right lic begentleman said, " It is very strange I cannot get these monied people to act with me, because I give them what The right is right, and they won't accept it." (Hear, hear.) •te right hon. gentleman should recollect that public °pinion was not to be forced, that forced operations Were seldom successful. And, though he might say that all was best that was done by this best of all pos sible governments, the public dealers in stocks might take a. different view, and might think that they had not had exactly what they ought to have. (Hear, bear.) Then the right hon. gentleman said the matter was now in the hands of the House of Commons; the First Lord of the Treasury and the Chancellor of the Exchequer were very weak with the monied power, but if the house passed a resolution it must prevail. He (:afr. Baring) bad a, very great respect for the, of Counnons; he knew that its authority was almost supreme and omnipotent ; but there was one thing it could not do—it could not make the P l iblia buy what they did not want, U they had the option of refusing it; it could not make them invest money in what they did not like, or feel confidence in that which they had been taught to distrust. (Cheers.) He would ask the house to adopt his amendment for this reason. He wished the Government to speak out plainly and tell them what they wanted this money for, and to what extent they really wanted it. Was it to restore the balances of the Exchequer at least to what they were only last year, and which the Government said ought never to be so large ? Was it that they had under-estimated the expense of the war? Let them come boldly forward and tell the house what they wanted for the expenditure of the war, and they had already seen with what readiness the house would grant their demands. (Hear, hear.) It had been said that this was a vote of want of confidence. But, if this were so, anything might be distorted into a vote of want of confidence. The slightest censure, the merest hint or expression of apprehension for the future, might be taken as a declaration of want of confidence. The -esost powerful Governments had been beaten on a budget, and had not considered it as a vote of want of confidence. Un der Lord Liverpool's administration the income tax had been repealed against the Government, thus taking from them a revenue of 12 or 15 millions ; still the Government went on. They had seen, later, under the administration of the noble lard (Russell), two or three budgets brought forward and taken back again. (Cheers, and laughter.) And that was not considered a vote of want of confidence. He had voted for the new taxes of the Government, not because he (lid not think that various objections might be made to them, bug because he did not wish to throw im pediments in their way. (Hear) But this, if a vote of want of confidence at all, was a vote of want of con fidence on schemes which had failed, on measures which had been rendered abortive by the bad way in which they had been put forward. (Hear.) It was a vote of want of confidence that, in four or six years hence, the state would be able to pay these Exchequer Bonds. (Hear.) Let the Government say what they wanted; if it was a loan let them have it. If they wanted taxes, let them come forward and say what amount they wanted ; but let them not go on inju ing the public credit by those constant, worrying, meddling changes—this succession of disastrous experiments. +Cheers.) Let not the Government think that they could play the game like any other game, by bringing forward a measure, and if it was a bad move, taking it back, and playing again. Financial mistakes were national misfcrtunes. (Hear.) Financial failures were great calamities ; and a series of failures was fraught with danger - ,o the credit of the country. (Hear, hear.) The Government had a great power to back them ; they hid called on the energies of the people ; they had taxed the resources of the country • and the country would respond to the demand. (Hear.) But they had within reach arms still more potent--the national credit ; that credit had achieved wonders, and it could do the same again. But while powerful it was at the same time most sensitive. Under the guidance of a judicious, careful, and experienced hand, it could be borne through the crisis uncrushed and uninjured; but beneath the touch of a meddling, fidgetty, irritating pressure, it might shrink into impotence, or direct itself against its employer and pro duce nations? debility. He called on the house, not only not to avoid loans, but to avoid this constant tampering and meddling—(hear)—this constant attempt to do something new, something novel, something grand. (Cheers.) With those feelings, and wishing to enter his protest against the continuance of this system, he ventured to propose the amendment of which ho had given notice, and which was in the following terms :—" That it is not at present expe dient to authorise any further issue of Exchequer Bonds, with the engagement of repayment within the next six ye , rs." (Cheers.) The amendment having been seconded and put from the chair, Mr. Y. WILSON rose, he said, to expose the numerous errors into which Mr. Baring had fallen. He denied the connection, which Mr. Baring had endeavoured to estab lish, between the financial operations of last year and the resolution under consideration. He justified these opera tions, explaining the state of the national finances at that period, the amount of the public balances, and the object of the Chancellor of the Exchequer in his action by means of these balances upon both the unfunded and the funded debt. With regard to the former, he +nsisted that, but for the failure of the attempt to convert the South Sea Stocks, the operation upon Ex chequer-bills would have been successful ; as it was, the result of both operations had been a reduction, in princi pal and interest, of the national debt; and the only point contended for by Mr. Baring was, that better terms might have been obtained. With regard to the transactions be tween the Government and the Bank of England, he ad mitted that each party was entitled to due consideration from the other; but there were questions between them upon which discordant opinions might exist. Since 1844 the terms of their dealings had been regulated by act of Parliament, and Mr. Wilson showed the privileges and ad vantages which the Bank enjoyed under this arrangement. The question at the bottom of all these discussions, he be lieved, was—Were we to pay the expenses of the war from means raised within the year, or to have recourse to loans ? He showed, from the report of Sir Henry Parnell's com mittee, the consequences of a fundamental error committed by Mr. Pitt, in 1792, by the hasty an dunnecessary adoption of the borrowing system, which had loaded our finances with a debt, from a large portion of which the country had derived not a farthing of benefit. This fact, he thought, furnished a lesson to us, and a weighty argument against the suggestion of Mr. Baring. The issue of Exchequer bonds was not to be considered as an ordinary loan ; they were temporary securities, and not to be essentially distinguished from Exchequer-bills. But, if the expenditure was to be defrayed by taxes raised within the year, what, it had been asked, was this money wanted for? He replied that new taxes were long in coming in, and the want of money in hand at the mo ment had been, during the late war, the occasion of im provident bargains. The resolution and the amendment involved the whole question of enabling the Government to lay the foundation of a system of finance so beneficial in the conduct of a great war. Mr. MALINS urged at considerable length the impru dence, in spite of warnings, of the measure of last year for converting the 3 per cent. stocks ; and, in connection with that operation, he condemned the scheme of Exchequer bonds, which, he insisted, constituted a loan, as at vari ance with principles laid down by the Chancellor of the Exchequer himself. He could not put the loss to the country from his false step, he said, at less than 800,0001. The present proposal to raise a loan of 6,000,000/. at 4 per cent. to pay off a 3 per cent. stock would occasion a loss of 60,0001. a year. On the subject of Bank accommodation, Mr. Malins argued against what he considered to bo falla cies in the views taken by the Chancellor of the Exche quer and Mr. Wilson, and, in conclusion, he predicted the probability that the scheme now proposed might entail hereafter a further loss of 600,0001. Mr. LikING thought ii necessary, after considering the wide field into which the discussion had wandered, to re mind the committee that the amendment of the hon. mem ber for Huntingdon was, that " it was inexpedient to authorise any further issue of Exchequer bonds, with the engagement of repayment within six years ;" the obvious meaning of which was that there was a probability of Go vernment not being able in six years to obtain facilities for paying off such bonds. Now he could not help thinking that if that hon . member had the same peculiar experiences which he (Hr. Laing) had acquired by sitting at a railway board, he would not have put forward such a proposition. In his capacity of chairman of a railway, by no means one of the largest in the kingdom, he had seen operations car ried out almost equal to those which the hon. gentleman feared as likely to cast so heavy a burden ou the country. (Hear.) Having made some inquiries into the matter, he (Mr. Laing) could state that the amount of the floating loans of railway companies at the end of the year 1853 was 64,640,6681., and at the present moment it was about 70,000,0001. The average date at which the sums making up that total were repayable, was considerably under five years, but more than four. Taking it, however, at the longer date, it would be seen that it involved the annual renewal to the rail way companies of loans to the amount of 14,000,000/. ; an operation which had been, and was effected by those companies with perfect ease, in the open markets of the kingdom. (Hear.) How was the opera tion effected? Simply by the rail ways availing themselves of the enormous class of the public always on the look out for an investment for their money, which would re turn them a some what larger interest than the public funds. The average amount of the sums advanced to railways was 1,5001., and the class advancing were those who sought investments upon mortgage. A few large sums were advanced by the great insurance offices. The question was, Ought the Government of this country to feel any apprehension in entering into competition with the railway companies, especially when they could offer a bet ter security, and one more easily transferred ? He thought that it was idle to talk of apprehension. (Hear, hear.) But then it was said that the amount might be better raised by means of Consols. That was really a question of convenience. If the amount required were borrowed in Consols, then it would be taken at 85 per cent., or 3 per cent. interest; while, if it were borrowed upon Exchequer Bonds, the amount of interest would be 4 per cent. But in Consols the country would be bound to pay at par that which was borrowed at 85, and for that reason he thought that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had exercised a wise discretion in the course which he had taken, for he avoided the example of former wars, when money had been bor n owed upon a depreciated security. (Hear, hear.) As re garded the details of the carrying out of this principle, he (Mr. Laing) felt bound to say that there were some things to be questioned in the course of the Government. (Oppo sition cheers.) He thought that the wisest plan would have been to go direct to the market with the security, and to have had only one denomination of bond. Having, however, said this much strictly to the question of these bonds, he thought it right to state that, in his opinion, the motion of the hon. member for Huntingdon (Mr. T. Baring) had, in reality, bean used as a peg on which to hang a much wider subject, for the subsequent discussion amounted to no thing more nor less than an impeachment of the whole financial policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. This virtual vote of want of confidence had been supported by a retrospective review of the whole of the transactions in which the right hon. gentleman had been engaged. The greatest stress had been laid on the experiment with regard to the conversion of a portion of the national debt. That was undoubtedly an easy topic on which to find fault, be cause it was admitted on all hands that the experiment was an unsuccessful one, which it would have been better never to have made. Yet it was only fair to remember that at the time when that experiment was made, the public funds had been for a considerable period above par, that a conversion had been recently successfully carried out in a neighbouring country, and that it was a period of great national prosperity. It was true that there had been a sli g ht reac ti on in ihe money market, but upon that T s u n b e j e v e a t s the opinions g o o f; r th e d i a s b e l o e v s e t r m e d e n i n w A e r u e , t m r a u l i c a h d , h i v a i d d , e d. n the first instance, taken money from Eng land , and the state of things i n Chi na led to the same resut. xperience in America had shown that the first discovery of gold otherht ti g htness ess caused a tempor ar y ti t: , extreme.i n the moneyHence it market, was that fol lowed speedily by th e persons opinion, an d experience som e of th em in the c o n sidered City were th e d t i i v m id e ec l a i The scheme fa vourable one for the ex p er i ment of the Chancellor of aExchequernexperim experiment, a r a , n h d e a r.) although an ' after all, was but unsuccessful one for ,he ( w M h r fch L an enormous na ti ona l d e bt wou ld Laing) believed that it contained t h h a e ve pt , rhie s n t ctiipmleesome upon time, to be diminished. However, rh ec e t h oug ht that the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he found the matter was unsuccessful, would have done bet ter to have closed the scheme at once (hear) and so have saved all but the first loss; still, upon a mere ques tion of detail like that, he did not think that the com mittee would agree to a sweeping vote of censure. Look ing at this as a matter of private finance, it appeared a most extraordinary idea. (Hear, hear.) The nation ought to have a sufficient, indeed a liberal balance, in hand; but that was no reason why a deficiency in one branch should not be made good out of a surplus in another. He (Mr. Laing) dissented from most of the criticisms passed upon the financial experiment of last year, which was founded upon the true principle of action upon the national debt. Before he could consent to the extreme measure of censure involved in the amendment upon the whole finan cial policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, he must look, he said, at the question as a who le, and, admitting that some errors had been committed, he could not glut his eyes against the merits of the leading principles of that policy. It would be a great misfortune to the country if the present amendment was carried. Mr. CAIRNS objected - to the proposal of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to raise , the resources for carrying on the war year by year within the year ; and he objected to the taxation by which he proposed to raise these resources. Who, he asked, were the persons to be permanently bene fitted by the war? Those who will come hereafter, and they should, in his opinion, pay a share of the burden. But, if the expenses of the war were to be raised each year, he protested against this being done by doubling the in come tax, with all its ineq - cialities. Mr. JOHN 3.4`GREGOR , approved of the principle of borrowing money for short periods, and payieg the ex penses of each year of the war by the year's taxes. Had that course been adopted daring the last war, the money of the State would have boen expended as economically as that of a private individir With regard to the conver- ' sion of stocks last year, be maintained that at the time that it was proposed the state of the money market was such as to warrant the Chancellor of the Exchequer in making the proposal ; and. he denied that after the termi nation of the war, and the return of prosperity, the coun try would have lost one shilling by the transaction. The present moderate proposal ought to be at once accepted. He characterised the opposition to it as factious, and said that the amendment had nothing to do with the financial position of the country, lrat was and would be considered by the country as a vote of want o! confidence in the mea sures of the Chancellor , of the Exchequer. Whatever might be the views of a certain portion of that house, how ever, he was convinced that the country would support the finance minister, and would approve of his meeting the ex penses of the war without entailing heavy debts upon posterity. Mr. T. HANKEY said that after listening with great at tention to the speech of the hon member for Huntingdon, ho was quite at a loss to understand his motive in proposing the amendment with which he had concluded. He (Mr. Hankev) was anxious to avoid any expression of opinion on the part of the committee which should cripple the action of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, or should declare that the mode of borrowing mo:aey which he proposed to adopt was injurious or undesirable. He had never been able to understand why the Ministers of this country had so long debarred themselves from raising money by loans for a li mited period on the system which had been pursued with so much advantage by railway companies, and which was a system acted on by the Governments of all countries ex cept our own. He rejoiced that the Chancellor of the Ex chequer had at last adopted a system which he believed would be most beneficial to he country—that of borrowing for a short and limited time money which he had shown the house that he should have the means of repaying from the income to be derived from taxes which he intended to impose, and which he (Mr. Hankey) understood the house was not unwilling to sanction. If he had the means of doing this, he (Mr. Hankey) thought it was a most proper course for him to adopt, anl he hoped that the house would not throw any difficulties in the way of his carrying out such a measure. In compliance with repeated calls, the bell was rung for a division. After it had be en ringing some time, and when a considerable number of members hail entered the house, Mr. DISRAELI rose, and was received with cheers and laughter. He said—Mr. Bou.verie—Sir, I did expect that some member of the Government would perhaps have re plied to the motion made by a most important member of the house, who is, I think, at all times and on all subjects de serving of the attention of a Government—(cheers)—and who to-night spoke upon a subject upon which he addressed the house with all the influence w'nich naturally results from his pursuit, his character, and his ability. I think lam not say ing too much in saying that, though the great fault of his eloquence is the rarity of his appeals, which we all regret, on no occasion has he addressed either yourself or the chair on which he has produed a greater effect, or more completely justified the step which he hau taken. (Hear.) I should myself have willingly listened to the answer of the Govern ment to the objections to the motion which is now before the house on the part of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I hope the committee will excuse me if on this occasion I take the liberty of making some remarks upon the sub ject before the house. An hon. gentleman who has just addressed the house told us that it is not upon a mere reso lution moved iu committee that the house has to decide, but that it has indeed to decide upon the whole financial policy of the Chancellor of the Exchequer. I was not my self disposed to view the question in that light, but at the same time I am not prepared to shrink from that discussion if it is the mood of the commit tee that we should enter into it. Sir, I conceive that the demand which the Chancellor of the Exchequer has made upon the committee to-night has in a great degree resulted from the principles upon which he has conducted his finance. I cannot agree with an hon. gentleman who has recently addressed the house that we have before us only an affair of detail, and not an affair of principle. lam willing, therefore, to argue the case on the broadest grounds, and to take the more comprehensive issue. I think that the conduct of our finances by the right hon. gentleman has been from the first erroneous, and I wish to give to the committee, with as much brevity as I can, the reasons why I think the administration of the finances by the right hon. gentleman has been erroneous, and has been, in consequence of those errors, injurious to the country. Sir, I think that in the first year of the management of the finances by the right hon. gentlemen—the management which has led to the resolutions now before the committee —it is not difficult to point out a variety of courses that he has pursued which he was not justified in pursuing. One advantage that we have in speaking upon these sub jects now is, that that which a year ago was abstruse to the majority of hon. members—which even a couple of months ago was not easy of immediate apprehension—has really, by frequent discussions, become so familiar to every gentleman that it is not necessary for me to dwell upon these points at that length which on previous occasions perhaps it was my duty to do. Now the first error of the right hon. gentleman has been touched upox to-night by the hon. member for Huntingdon, and was frequently re- ferrod to in the course of this discussion, and that was one which has been constantly bpaught before the considera tion of the house and the committee, namely, his lowering of the rate of interest upon Exchequer-bills. The right hon. gentleman has on several occasions, and in that speech in which I may say he introduced the resolutions now under discussion, vindicated the course which he in teneded to take. I don't think that I am giving a par tial opinion if I say that the vindication of the right hou. gentleman of that step has not, I think, proved satisfactory to this house or to the country. No doubt the observation of the right hon. gentleman, that in the month of March the very fact that Exchequer-bills were sent in, not for payment, but for conversion, is a seeming vindication, as he states, of the measure that was taken. No doubt on the first blush of the matter that is an apparent answer to the charge that we had made. But really it is a superficial ono, and has been noticed to-night by the hon. member for Huntingdon, as might have been expected from .. gentleman of his experience and acquain tance with the subject. It is not immediately that the commercial community call on the Chancellor of the Ex chequer to pay his bills in money ; but although for a moment this indulgence was extended to the right hon. gentleman, the consequence of his conduct was so appa rent when at a later date, but still not remote period a large amount of the balances in the Exchequer were called for in the most inconvenient manner to defray the obligations resulting from his policy. Well, sir, I shall not dwell upon another point, which I only notice that the house may bear it in its mind. It is a fact, not to be disputed that the right hon. gentleman did think it a wise course to. reduce the interest upon the public securities when the bankers were raising the interest upon private securities, and when every symptom which I think ought to have guided the right hon. gentleman—such as the fall in the funds, which the right hon. gentleman will no longer deny --the double rise of the rate of interest in the Bank—the fall in the premium on his own Exchequer-bills—must all have warned him that a considerable change was taking place in the fortunes of the money market. I think the reason given by the hon. gentleman the other night which he drew from the course of the exchanges affected by our Indian trade, however good so far as it went, of a very limited and partial character. There is no doubt that the right hon. gentleman, as well as other persons, was misled by the great increase in the production of the precious metals, and that ho did not give credit for that remarkable increase in our commercial transactions which was the consequence of the discovery of that increase of the precious metals, and which was an increase in greater proportion than the increase ' in those metals. Sir, I am quite willing to share the blame of having formed an erroneous opinion on the same subject, of which the right hon. gentleman of course has reminded me. I answered the right hon. gentleman that it was my opinion—an opinion that I had formed as to the low rate of interest, and in which I was fortified by high authorities, and the right hon. gentleman said—" Did not you have these opinions, and of what use are opinions unless they are acted upon?" But although that was my opinion in this month of December, still I do think that in the month of February, if I had been aware that the funds had fallen lA per cent., if I had been aware that the Bank had raised the rate of interest twice in the preceding month, and aware also of the great efflux of the precious metals—that whatever might be my theoretical opinions formed from study, and although I thought that that might have been in the long run justified by experience and the course of events—l think I should have had sufficient caution and prudence not to act then upon that opinion. Under these circumstances, and in refusing so to act, I do not think I would have conducted myself in a manner that would have given foundation for the belief that I was insincere in the opinions I had yen- i tured to express. Well, I consider this to have been the first great fault in the management of our finances in the year 1853—1 mean the incautious dealing with the un funded debt of the country. And although, at first sight, the consequences which ensued from that step may not have been so apparent as they have since proved to be, I still believe that that must be accounted a very great error. Sir, the second great mistake which the right hon. gentle man has made in the administration of our finances—l am sure ho will pardon my going somewhat pedantically , through this catalogue, but I am obliged now, from an ac cident which we all deplore, to answer in some degree a speech made some time ago, and it is but due to the right hou. gentleman and myself—and I do not shrink from the task—l say the second great fault of the right hon. gentle mayss ? in the administration of the finances in 1853, was e that celebrated scheme of conversi on which has occupied committeethe sometimes t t e n attention o t n fhoi of thef gott e countryforgotten, evening. because e eaTheu s scircumstances preventedo much,astne and also th a t o f the of that s c h eme i s only a very comparatively minor portion having been fulfilled, or attempted to be fulfilled. But I must again remark that the whole principles upon which that scheme of c onversion, which mi g ht ha r e been ap plied to the whole amo unt of the p ublic de bt , was calcu lated, , in my mind , fallacious and contradictory principles. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentl eman h as reproached me and others because, in the month of March, when he brought forward his conversion scheme, we warned him of the imp olic y of his g reater sche me , and dwelt little upon the inconvenience that might accrue from the failure of his minor project Now, sir, Ido not shrink in the least from the opinion that I then gave, that it was extremely unwise to bind this country up in engagements which were to last forty yea s, to ensure the stipulation of a certain fixed rate of interest. whether it were 3 per cent., or 2A per cent., I should almost be tempted to go further— , I say that the principle of an arrangement of a duration such as was proposed by the right hon. gentleman was i n my mind a most imprudent one, and one which, whatever may be the rate of interest ruling in this country at any time, ought not under any circumstances to be sanctioned. Sir, the right hon. gentleman reproached us that we did I not remind him of the inconvenience that might arise to the Treasury from the failure of the smaller portion of his con ' version scheme, namely, the n , _Ncessity of having to pay off th e hoiders of south Sea Annuities. I think I may leave 1 the vindication of hon. gentlemen on this side of the house to the hon. and learned member for Wallingford (Mr. Maio) who has laid before the house soh ample quota. THE STJN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MAY 23, 1854. tions of the warnings and prophecies given to the right hon. gentleman, that, if I had no share in those predic tions, and no share in those warnings, I may at least be proud of my colleagues and coadjutors for having been more apt and far-seeing than myself. But surely the right hon. gentleman cannot pretend any longer that on this sub ject he did not receive ate caution from this side of the house. Well, that was the second great mistake of 1853. The first was with regard to his dealing with the unfunded debt ; the second was with respect to his dealing with the funded debt. But there is a point for our consideration, when we have to estimate the prudence and calculate the caution of the right hon. gentleman in these matters -a there is one element of our consideration which, when we touched on the subjects originally, was not in our posses sion. Sir, when this subject was first discussed in this house this session, I remember that on that very night be fore the financial debate took place, I hail to address a question to the noble lord the leader of this house, with respect to a certain statement that had appeared that morning in an English newspaper with regard to certain declarations which had been made by the Emperor of Russia with reference to the information possessed by the Government of his intentions at a period far earlier than had been supposed by the House of Commons. That was on the very day, if I recollect right, when the financial discussion occurred in this house, and the noble lord pro mised that we should be put in possession of these docu ments. We argued the case of the management of the finances without the advantage of those documents. We argued the case of the management of the finances merely with the state papers before us that had b eu laid upon the table. But it resulted from those documents subse quently presented to this house that the right honourable gentleman must have been impressed with, if not the certainty, the more than possibility of this country being engaged in hostilities, and in hostilities with the most powerful empire. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I might show that even in the earlier part of February, the right honourable gentleman ought not to have been blind to what was occurring ; but I do not press that point. The right hon. gentleman had recently acceded to office ; he had a great pressure upon him in his depart ment ; he might not at that moment have been so deeply impressed as perhaps he ought to have been with the alarming state of Europe ; but a month afterwards the right hon. gentleman must have taken his part in many Cabinet meetings in which the gravest discussion must have occurred, upon the possibility, and the more than possibility, of a war with a power of first-rate resources ; and I ask the house—l ask the committee, is it of opinion that under these circumstances a Minister of Finance should have come forward and proposed to this house to deal upon a large scale with a scheme of conversion which was to touch the greater part of the public debt of this country ? (Hear, hear.) Well, then, I s a y that that was the second great fault of the right hon. gentleman. But the failure of the conversion scheme is no longer to be guaged by the depth and extent of the fallacy of the prin ciples upon which it was founded ; but it was a great fault —a great fault of statesmanship quite irrespective of his errors of finance, that at the time when he introduced that scheme to the house, he should have asked this house to deal with a great project for reducing the interest on the national debt of the country, when he ought to have known that there was the chance, and more than the chance, of this country beingengaged in war. And when the right hon. gentleman turns round and taunts us now with not having given him sufficient warning—of not having been early enough in prophecy and prediction as to the incon venience and injury of his course and conduct—l tell him that these taunts fall to the ground, because if we had been completely silent—if we had not objected in any way to his measures, his fault depends upon circumstances quite independent and irrespective of the verdicts of this house and of the country, because he should have formed his judgment and his opinions upon circumstances of the gravest import that were utterly unknown to this house and the country. (Hear, hear.) Well, sir, I come next to the third fault—the third great financial error in the year 1853 of the right hon. gentleman. His third great financial error is, at any rate, one which the hon. gentle. man who lately addressed us (Mr. Laing) cannot call a question of detail ; it is not a question that concerns the interest upon an Exchequer bill; it is not one that con cerns even the terms upon which you may effect the con version of an annuity. It is under the circumstances the gravest error that a statesman—a financial statesman can possibly commit ; it is one which, in my opinion has grie vously injured the fortunes and resources of the country, and that has mainly prepared those difficulties which I fear it is impossible to flatter ourselves we shall not have to contend with ; and the third great error of which I accuse the right hon. gentleman in 1853, is that he came forward, and, under circumstances which ought to have convinc ed him that war was more than imminent, proposed to the House of Commons a peace budget. Now, t do not call the budget of 1853 a peace budget because the right hon. gen tleman proposed to repeal taxes—l do not call it a peace budget for that reason, for the right hon. gentleman him self may tell me as he has told us before, that it he brought forward measures which immediately tend to diminish and reduce the resources of the country, he also proposed other measures which in due time would increase those resources, or would at least supply the deficiency which his measures might create. I may say, in passing, that Ido not at all admit the justice of the observation of the right hon. gen tleman, which has been made more than once. If the right hon. gentleman believed that there was a chance of this country being involved in war, it is no excuse for his destroying any source of revenue that he also substituted an equivalent in its place. (Hear, hear.) The country might require, and probably will require, both sources of revenue. (Hear, hear.) Therefore Ido not admit the ar gument that because he proposed and carried more than one new tax, he was at all justified, with the information of which he must have bean master, in proposing the red peal of other taxes. (Hear.) But lam not describing his budget as a peace budget because he repealed the other taxes—l call it a peace budget, not merely because it pro posed the repeal of taxes, but because the right hon. gen tleman, in order to induce the house and the country to embrace his policy, chalked out a financial future which was all founded upon the further repeal of taxes. (Hear.) It is not merely that the right hon. gentleman, addressing the House of Commons, who no more dreamt of war than they now dream of peace—(hear)— it is not that the right hon. gentleman then had the extreme rashness and pre cipitation to diminish the duties on tea by one-half, but he more than intimated to the house that the wine duties would, within a few years' time, be very speedily dealt with ; and indeed I am much mistaken (and I believe it is no breach of confidence, and that there is no doubt of the fact) if even at the beginning of the war—at least so it reaches me from abroad, from a country disturbed by some envoy of the right hon. gentleman—her Majesty's Govern ment were not then meditating and maturing a consider able reduction of the wine duties. (Laughter.) Well, I do not object to the Chancellor of the Exchequer dealing even with the wine duties ; but I say that a Chancellor of the Exchequer, in possession of the information which ought to assure him that the peace of Europe is in immi nent danger, and who comes forward and proposes the re peal of taxes to a large dmount, and intimates to the House of Commons that the policy he is pursuing will speedily lead to still greater remissions, cannot pretend that he was not proposing a peace budget. B u t Ido not say that the right honourable gentleman was p ro p os ing a peace budget merely because he proposed the remission of taxes, or merely because he indicated a further remission of taxes which it was his intention to make, although I think that that is ample proof of my statement; but let me remind the house of the mode and manner in which the right hon. gentleman, according to his own account alone, induced the House of Commons to consent to the continuance and re-enactment of the 'income and property tax. If the right hon. gentleman believed that there was a chance of war—if he was of opinion, after all the Cabi net Councils that he had attended, that the peac e of Europe was in extrem e d anger , h ow can the right hon. gentleman justify it to the country that he should have come forward and ind uce d th e h ouse t o ac cept the con tinuance of the income t ax u p on spec ifi c con ditions, those conditions being th a t it s h ou ld gra d ua ll y di m inish * and at a certain date should en ti re l y di sappear —(h ea r)— the funds intended to enable it t o b e ex ti ngu i s h e d b e i n g those to be supplied by the larg e amoun t o f t erm i na ble annuities which would fall i n t o th e pu bli c a d van t age ? I think it is hardly necessary t o g i ve f urt h er proo f s t o the committee that the budget of 1853 was a b u d ge t o f pure peace. Now was the right hon. g en tl eman — a Mi n i s t er o f the Crown — cognisant of all the despat c h es o f our f ore i g n envoys, tak ing a leading part, no doubt, in our councils, acquainted with all of those circumstances which have since been made known to us—was the right hon. gentleman, I ask the house, I ask this committee, with no fear of what must be the opinion of 01l impartial men—was the right hon. gentleman then justified in believing that peace was not in clangeil (Hear, hear.) What was the information then in the possession of the right hon. gentleman? Why, he was in possession of information from those em ployed by himself and his colleagues—by the servants of the Crown abroad—that our foe was at that moment mak ing propositions to the Ottoman Porte, inducing her to enter into as.alliance hostile to England. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman knew that large armies were that prepared and assembled on the frontiers of Tu rke y , an d that at that moment the opinion of men wh o se l elget greatly gm wa s en t j u dgme n t ought so have guided us was, that the balance of p owe r t at was stake. i n w. danger, el , and si r, the considering political that of Tu r key diminished the resources of the country—e o usid erin g that budget made the Government enter into engagements which, I may say throughout the country generally , would certainly lead to great disappointment if fresh appeals were made for the imposition of new taxes—l think a peace budget in 1853 was a great blunder on the part of the right honourable gentleman. I hope the committee will excuse me for a m om ent if I reproduce the 'statement of the right hon oura bl e gentleman on this par ticular head. It is not agreea ble to me at any time to vin dicate the conduct of th e l a t e Government, but I hope the house will not think me e go tistical if I answer a c h arge which has been specifically made. The right honourable gentleman the other night dilated on the budget of 1853, and in defence of that budget said, " See what a position the Government was in, in 1853, with regard to their finance. The income tax had ceased to exist. We had to propose its renewal under circumstance s of extreme diffi culty. The late Government had left that question in such a state that our difficulty was extremel y aggravated in that respect." Now, in the first place , I do imagine that the late Government had some difficulty on that head, for the late Government had found the income tax equally nou-existent as the right honourable gentleman. The late Government had to decide on a great question which at that time agitated the public mind, whether there should be a difference recognised in the assessment of temporary and permanent incomes. Now, lam not going to enter into any controversy on that subject at present, which would alone take up the night, and which is not now necessary; but although a difficulty on that subject rested with the right hon. gentleman, the battle was fought and the question was decided on that head before the right hon. gentleman acceded to office. The vote on that sub ject was that on which the late Government quitted office; and to pretend that the House of Commons, after having refused to recognise that principle, which they virtually did, could ever be an obstacle to the settlement of it to the right hon. gentleman, is really an assumption which only the interval that has elapsed could have induced the right hon. gentleman to indulge in. (A laugh.) But the right hon. gentleman said something more. I have heard the insinuation from the right hon. gentleman once before, at the end of a heated debate of many days continuance, and I had not thought it necessary particularly then to notice it. He said the late Government had decided on the ques tion of the assessment to the income tax without thought —that they had, without reflection or research, decided upon announcing that they would make a difference which they had not matured ; and the right hon. gentleman complained that I, as the organ of the late Government, had not placed on the table the schedules which we wished to carry. I assure the right hon. gentleman that he is in error in that view, which I am sure he sin cerely entertained. The question of whether a difference in the assessment to the income tax should be recognised between permanent and temporary incomes was most deeply considered by the late Government, and occupied repeated and protracted consultations. It was our opinion that that difference should be recognised ; nor does any argument that I have heard, I may say in palming, founded, if the details were true, on the greater amount paid, by schedule D, appear to touch the principle involved. These facts, if they be facts, are arguments for another assess ment of schedule A ; they are arguments for a net instead of a gross assessment ; but they are no arguments why the difference of percentage was so great as was once slated by the right honourable gentleman. There are no details which affect the principle whether there should be a dif ference between the assessment on temporary and perma nent incomes. " But," said the right honourable gentle man, "the schedules were not placed on the table, on the income tax proposed by the late Government." The right honourable gentleman might have learned from those persons who are authorities on the subject, and to whom he himself will be ready to bow, that there is no precedent for the schedules of an income tax being placed upon the table. It is against all precedent, and against all rule. The house will recollect that the question of an income tax was never proposed by the late Government in the House of Commons. (Hear.) I, as the organ of the Government, never had an opportu nity of stating the reasons which had induced us to come to this result. It was clearly understood that until after Christmas the question would not be brought before the house; but there was a reason why we were obliged to pro pose the assessment on the schedules, because it was a com mittee of ways and means, and it was our duty to show the means by which an adequate amount of ways and means might be furnished. Therefore, the resolutions merely re mained on the table in their usual form ; and it was not until the final debate that a right hon. gentleman opposite entered at all into the schedules ; and that right hon. gen tleman having stated that 1 had omitted, in not producing the schedules, an important part of my duty, what I said was " that we did not ask you to vote for the schedules — when the schedules are before the consideration of the house it will be open to any hon. gentleman to propose any alteration in the elements of the schedules ; all we contend is this—we have considered this proposition, and no finan cial difference will be made, whatever changes you may make in the schedules." Ido say—that expression having been misrepresented by the right hon. gentleman—between the speech that was made on the elements of the schedule and my reply, that although it was not my duty to place the elements of the schedules on the table I did not shrink from it, and would willingly have done it, but I had no time — meaning from the pressure of business—formally to pre pare those schedules, which it was absolutely against all precedent to place upon the table. And then the right hon. gentleman denounces the false principles of finance which Mr. Pitt would never have recognised—(hear, hear) —and upon which the project of income tax proposed by the late Government was brought forward. It was, in fact, a graduated scale, according to the right hon. gentle man ; and he denounced it a few months afterwards, when bringing in his own plan of an income tax, in which there was positively a graduated scale of the most flagrant and the most perilous nature. (Opposition cheers.) We drew a distinction between incomes of a different character ; but the right honourable gentleman brings forward an in come tax in which he makes an assessment on different amounts of property, thereby saying that the rich man shall pay a higher rate than the poor man, the most dan gerous principle, to my mind, that can possibly be adopted. (Renewed cheers from the Opposition.) I hope the coma mittee will excuse me for entering into these details. I had hoped the late Government were entombed in Hansard — (a laugh)—but the right hon. gentleman revived the ques tion, and I cannot shrink from answering a charge which has been repeated by the right hon. gentleman. There is only one point more on which I must touch. The right. hon. gentleman has often praised himself on account of the efficient income tax which he brought in. He said the income tax which I pro posed would have brought in much less to the revenue, in consequence of my mode of assessment. He found it con venient to forget that while we admitted the principle, which I believe to be a just principle, that there should be a difference recognised between temporary and permanent incomes, and the recognition of which would have saved you from the succession duties—(hear, hear)—he found it convenient, I say, to forget that we destroyed, or greatly removed, that immense mass of exemptions which had risen up in the course of years, and that by increasing the area of direct taxation we raised exactly the same sum as the income tax of Sir Robert Peel; and we not only did that, but by increasing the area of direct taxation we gave you the security that property assessed to the income tax should only pay an income tax of 6 per cent. instead of 10 per cent., for that increased confiscation which would have been the inevitable consequence if you had retained the old constructed scheme. I have now touched upon three grievous errors in the financial cam paign of 1853, and which I touch upon because the right hon. gentleman vindicated himself on these points, not in a tone of humility which should make me silent—(cheers from the Opposition)—and because, as I shall show, it is these errors which are the cause of our present difficulties. But these errors are not the only ones in the campaign of 1853. What was the fourth error? It was that reduction in the rate of interest which forced the right hon. gentleman to pay off 3,000,0001. of Exchequer-bills from the public ba lances. That I think to have been the fourth error. I make the catalogue as brief as I can ; but still I will go on. (Cheers.) There was a fifth error. (A laugh.) I think it was a great error that the right hon. gentleman com mitted in tampering with the funds of the savings banks as he did. lam perfectly aware that the right hon. gen tleman took no step which I believe was not legal in . that respect; but it was an inconsiderate use of the privileges of a Minister of Finance which led him to have recourse to a subject of such great delicacy ; he treated it, however, in a manner which must have damaged the credit of those invaluable institutions, the savings banks, among those classes for whose especial benefit they exist. It would appear from papers on the table that there was a series of stock jobbing operations, a catalogue of speculation in the funds, many of which resulted in a loss to those who in vested their money in savings banks. It appeared from those papers, if I am not greatly mistaken, that savings bank money was in one day sold out of the public funds, then invested in the Exchequer-bills, and then those Exchequer-bills invested again in stock, and that upon those transactions there was a positive pecuniary loss. (Hear, hear.) I think that was the fifth blunder—the fifth great error of the right hon. gentleman in the campaign of 1853. But " Another and another still succeeds." I cannot say the catalogue is finished, because I think at the end of that fatal year, or rather in the month of August, when the right hon. gentleman found that all his schemes had failed, and that his exchequer must be empty unless he had recourse to moans for replenishing it, the funds being then at 97 and a fraction—when he could have raised the money on very easy terms—the right hon. gentleman, of course, being in possession of grave state secrets, which must have assured him that even if peace could only be preserved by a combination of the happiest circumstances with the exercise of the greatest skill on the part of diplomatists, and on the part of Governments the necessary prudence and firmness united—the right hon. gentleman with contempt let the opportunity pass by, and the year 1853 terminated on the part of the right hon. gentleman with the failure of all his financial projects, with almost the certainty of a war, and with an empty exchequer. (Cheers from the Opposition.) Now that is the way in which the right hon. gentleman commenced the campaign of 1854; and I want to see what are the measures which he has adopted, first of all, to compensate for the mistakes of the preceding year ; and, secondly, to do that which the right hon. gentleman had also. to do, not merely to compensate for the mistakesof last year, but to encounter the difficulties of the present one. The right hon. gentleman, in breathless haste, one month before the financial statement was due, came down to Parliament, and announced his determination to make the financial exposition to the country. It was a month before it was due. I think on the sth March the right hon. gentleman came down with, if not war absolutely declared, an army of 25,000 men having quitted our shores and a large fleet being in the Black Sea, a month before it was necessary, but with a frankness which gave confidence to the country, in order to put us in complete possession of our financial situation, so that we might thoroughly un derstand the responsibilities that we might incur, and pro. vide for the difficulties in which the preceding year had left us. Well, the right hon. gentleman told us on that occasion that he had a considerable surplus—fortunately for us, to the amount of 3,000,0001., and the increased esti mates he had to propose would come to somewhere about the same sum, or something exceeding 2,850,0001. The right hon. gentleman entered into many particulars as to the moving and bringing back the large force which had quitted these shores. The right hon. gentleman also offered us estimates to something like a million and a quar ter, which was a large sum ; but he said it was right that the country should know what was necessary for moving and bringing back— The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER (interrupt ing)—Removing and bringing back. Mr. DISRAELI (resuming)—Well, removing and bring ing back will suit my argument. I say the right hon. gentleman gave us this estimate of a million and a quarter, which was a large sum, he said, but it was right that the country should know what was necessary for removing and bringing back this force to our shores. How he could re concile that with the much larger sum which was after wards asked for the transport of troops I never could com prehend. But the whole statement of the sth of March was a statement either inadequate or deceptive, and of course I cannot believe anything deceptive on the part of the right hon. gentleman. And how was it inadequate ? He succeeded in conveying to the committee and the country that, although it might be necessary early in July, it would be necessary to ask for further supplies ; and on. the sth of March the house was put in a position of, gene rally speaking, further responsibilities and requirements. If that were not his intention, what was the meaning of that precise and almost pedantic vote for Exchequer-bills to the amount of 1,750.0001. to be paid off out of the pro duce of the taxes in November ? The house certainly un- derstood that the estimates of the Chancellor of the Exche quer were upon the whole estimated to give them an idea of the requirements of the country and the responsibilities of her Majesty's subjects is consequence. The house almost immediately after adjourned for the holidays, and they had so adjourned but a few days when they found that the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the First Lord of the Treasury were endeavouring to raise money by a mode which was at once strange and quaint. No sooner had the house met the Chancellor of the Exchequer than hon. mem bers found that the table groaned beneath the weight of the increased estimates, and nearly 6,000,000/. was required. No person objected to either 6 or 12 millions when they thought the honour and interest of the country required it; but what many hon. members did complain of was, that we had a Minister of Finance who was called upon to investi gate the great question of the requirements of the coun try, and who must have placed himself in direct communi cation with the heads of departments on the sth of March, and which during the interval of the Easter holidays he found to be erroneous to the amount of 6,000,0001. (Hear.) We now have the consequence of these Aatinuous and systematic errors in the administration of the finances, in the attempt by the Government to raise a loan—for such I must still call it until informed as to the object of that proceeding of the Treasury. Even the Chancellor of the Exchequer cannot himself come forward and say that his proceeding was successful, and he has not yet advanced so far as to confess that it was an abortion. (Hear.) But this attempt was attended by some of the most remarkable cir cumstances which had ever attended a financial transac tion of that kind by an English Minister. The Chancellor of the Exchequer of England, at a time of unrivalled pros perity and of unexampled wealth, suddenly appears in the market as a borrower of 6,000,000/. at four per cent., and he is absolutely unable to raise the fund which he requires. What the Emperor of Russia must have thought of this it is impossible for me to ascertain, but I should certainly think he might consider it as a countervailing incident for the bombardment of Odessa at least. (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) How the Chancellor of the Exchequer could have proceeded in the matter, or by what mana stergement The wild it was that he arrived at such a result is a my y. desert of the city of London inhabited, I will not say by Ravage beasts, for some of them are " bulls" and the rest are " bears"—Chancellors of the Exchequer are supposed to have some knowledge of these animals. But not content with " bulls" and " bears," the Chancellor of the Exche quer aimed at higher prey, and he sought to bring down the antlered monarchs of the forest, and indeed all the "stags" in London were contributing to maintain the credit of the Chanoellor of the Exchequer. The right hon. gen. gum Witt Actually ander the, Weal 01 striking out two or three hundred thousand pounds of the sum sub scribed, u , ?or which no instalments„were paid. This is a mode of 73 lance ng the public finances of the country which produces only public scandal, and does no good to public credit. (I fear.) I have by me a series of letters from some of the in. )st obscure and hopeless varlets in the world, all subscribing 5,0001. to each of the series of the Chancellor of the E: :chequer's bonds. But that is not all • these fel lows not merely sent in their subscriptions for the 15,0001. of Each, 'quer bonds, but they have received an official answer, tot only giving them what they ask, but much more, an I begging them to take the whole series in the "A" bonds, and assuring them that if they do so they shall rec vivo all the advantages which attach to the other sei ies. (Laughter.) The right honourable the Chaucello rof the Exchequer, with his great ability, may no doubt arove this to be a most patriotic movement—one equal to t le " loyalty loan" of Mr. Pitt, of whose conduct and exam pie so much has been said. (A laugh). But if you refer :so these things and these failures, the Chancellor of the Ex. ; h equer i n di gnantly refuses to listen to you, Who would sup pose, when they listened to the indignant obsess. vations of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he hail re cently bee ain correspondence with all the scamps in Lon don. The right hon. gentleman comes forward as if he were to b. the victim of the Government he has served. He will n. it allow his colleagues to take any share of the faults ho has committed, and he takes refuge in a quota tion certas inly more classical than novel, and one which, considei iu g the great classical education of the right hon. gentleman ~ we mi g ht h ave expected would have been a felicitous line. The house will probably recollect the cir ctunstanc. a, and I certainly thought at the time, when the right ion. gentlem an ma d e use of it, that he must have venture a little on the forgetfulnes s of others :—a young gentleman , attended by his companion, was detected in plundering the Rutulians, an d t h e young gentleman ex claims— " Me, in e ; adsum qui foci in me convertite ferru." If the rig fat hon. gentleman had proceeded to the next line, he w ould have found an appropriate reply " 0 Rutuli,Y inea f raus omnis" (Laughter..) And this, I would suggest, would be a good motto for the. new Exchequer-bond s . (R enewed laughter.) I have en( leavoured to point out the series of failures and errors whi. :I) have brought the right hon. gentleman to his present t condition ; and finding it impossible to escape from the p ns and penalties of an empty Treasury, an ex hausted E. cc hequer, he is now brought to the last expedi ent of this le an in masquerade. (Laughter.) It was impos sible to aclo.:. z inything to the able remarks of the hon. mem ber for H un tingclon upon the inconvenience of raising money in th e manner proposed. If money was required to be raise. 3, it would be infinitely cheaper and more cone venient to ri tine it by the ordinary mode rather than by having rec ou rse to these fantastical expedients. Besides all the evil a , which you say Mr. Pitt committed, and which you are so di sirous of avoiding, you have already imitated for you arcs n .ow attempting to raise money at a discount. (Hear, hen .r.:l In order to show not only the inconvenience but the da ,ng er of the course you have adopted by the at tempt to r ais a money by these bonds, I will instance the case of the la st loan made in 1847. When that loan was raised for r 6 great national purpose, it was raised in the old fashioned s tyle, in an official manner, and in a mode which the public understood, and which generally succeeded, that of giving 1 001. Consols for as much as you could get for it. (Hear.) T he right hon. member for Halifax (Sir C. Wood) went into I the market with disadvantages which the right honourable the present Chancellor of the Exchequer never experience. I, and he raised his 8,000,000,1. under the old system wit bout disturbing the market one-half per cent. But suppos em he had raised those 8,000,0001. by the fantastic projects of the present Chancellor of the Exchequer, and had agreed to pay off the bonds at par in 1854, 1855, and 1856, what would have been the condition of the country at this mom mat, and how grievously would the country have felt this adi [Factual burden, to their already severe imposts and taxatio a.? (Hear, hear.) It is perfectly idle to talk of this vote beim g a question of confidence—a question of con fidence in a Minister who has asked for 10,020,0001. of money and virtually received them, and we are not to set our mark ssg:einst a system of administering the finances which we think is not only inconvenient, but which may prove, as I hi ore shown you just now, most injurious and intolerable to the country. (Cheers.) lam sure the com mittee will vote upon this question according to what they believe is for the advantage of the country. Sir, my opinion is, that the advantage of the country will be best studied by following: as much as we can at this moment the prece dents which - we possess for raising the ways and means of the country. Now. I say there is no precedent for the system of th e right hon. gentleman, for it has this most anomalous i!enture—it is paying off the amount of old debts at the same time that it is increasing taxation to carry on new war. (Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman is defraying the legacy of burdens which old wars have left this cuuntisr,, whilst at the same time he is raising taxes within the year to carry on new wars. The right hon. gen tleman laid down the other night a variety of principles upon which he thinks the finances of the country ought to be managed in a time of war, and the Secretary of the Treasury he'd to-night re-echoed the same opinions and quoted the authority for them, which the right hon. gen tleman did mot—for all the opinions which he favoured the house with sea to the expediency of raising the supplies for carrying on the war within the year, and not having re course to loans, aro a reproduction from the "Financial Reform" of Sir Henry Parnell, in language as well as sen timent. Tho name of Sir Henry Parnell will, I trust, always bo mentioned in this house with the respect of which it is worthy. He was a sound financier and a skilful economist, but he was not a great statesman, and he was not a man who, if lie had to decide on the means of carrying on a war, would have had recourse to any other maxim than the rule of three, or supposed that it could be conducted on any other plan than the severest principles of political economy pointed out. But there are other principles to be looked at, with such an end in view, then the favourite doctrines of Sir Henry Parnell ; you must look a little to the temper of a people, to the character, the passions, the weakness, the genius of a people, and you must conduct your war, no• doubt with some regard to scientific finance, but also wint some regard to the spirit of the age and the country. (Hear, hear.) There is this difference between the work nu oted by the right hon. gentleman, of which he appears a disciple and au ardent votary—there is this dif ference between a man who acts upon such views and Mr. Pitt, that it is possible he may carry small matters to a successful conclusion, but I should not like to see him en trusted with the management of groat enterprises. (Hear.) The right hon. gentleman told us that Mr. Pitt was not a good war minister, and he must allow me to say that ho certainly indulged in very free criticisms of the career of Mr. Pitt, and even spoke of his conduct in terms of repro bation. I do not believe that the phrase of " heaven -born minister", which came in for a pressing censure, originated with the Stock Exchange. I believe the fact to be that it was the Duke of Chandos who, in the House of Lords, called Mr. Pitt a heaven-bore minister, and therefore tho sneer of the right hon. gentleman on this head was hardly correct. But if the right hon. gentleman will allow me, I will presume to give him a piece of advice ; I would give over these unworthy sneers, levelled at the reputation of a great minister—l would, if I were the right hon. gentle man, confine myself in future to self-glorification, an art of which, I admit, that he is a master. (Hear, and a laugh.) Let him dilate upon the astuteness with which ho effects the conversion of South Sea Annuities ; let him dwell upon the intrepid courage with which, to show his spite against the party he has quitted, he can double the malt tax. (Cheers.) But let him cease from these reflec tions upon the memory of a statesman who, I can assure him, is still dear to the people of England. Let him re member that Mr. Pitt, whatever might have been his failings in the opinion of the right hon. gentleman, held with a steady hand the helm, when every country but Great Britain was submerged in the storm ; and when he taunts Mr. Pitt with courting bankers and money-lenders, he may also remember that that minister owed to a grate ful country an eleemosynary tomb. (Cheers.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Sir, both the lateness of the hour, and the recollection of much for mer indulgence, and, I may add too my view of the debate which the committee have heard to-night, combine to impress upon me the necessity of not again drawing upon that indulgence by detailed statements and elaborate calcu lations. The speech we have just heard from the right hon. gentleman, and the speech with which the hon. member for Huntingdon prefaced his motion, consisted in great part of references to what they have termed my financial errors. Now with respect to those financial errors, if such they be, all that I have to say may be summed up in three or four sentences ; because I think, after having listened to the debate, that we have at length pretty nearly exhausted all that can be said upon these questions —a matter, I venture to think, of no small consolation to the committee. (Hear, and laughter.) The case stands very simply thus. The right hon. gentleman says that the first financial error was the error of reducing the rate of interest upon Exchequer bills. On that head I fairly tell him, and I fairly tell the hon. member for Huntingdon, I have nothing to retract and nothing to repent—(hear, hear) ; for, in my opinion, the reduction of interest to the public was both a great and a just advantage, and the re duction of the amount of the unfunded debt in June last was another great advantage, that being also the first time since the war when a large reduction of the unfunded debt had been effected without loss to the public. So far, then, as that subject is concerned, I hope the hon. member, if he is disposed to do so, will not scruple to bring it before the house, because this house is the ultimate judgeup what principles every department of our finances should be managed. I have announced plainly and without dis guise the principles upon which I have proceeded, namely, in the first place, that the public is entitled to borrow upon the best terms on which people are willing to lend ; and, in the second place, that the sound policy is to reduce your unfunded debt in easy times, in order that you may be able to make an effective uso of that great instrumett in times of difficulty. (Hear, hear.) These are the principles _ on which I stand ; the hon. gentleman says tr f u or ly that tol do not recede from those principles, and consider whether he chooses to submit_ the i s ssue between him and myself to the judgment of the House of conversion Commons. With respect to the second subj ect, that of the of the minor stocks, I really have butnothingtodeao t stated on and it is needless for me to repeat what I have on former occasions. The right hon. gentlem an accuses me of self-glorification ; he says that I have not spoken upon that s ubject with sufficient humility • I have only i des crbed it as an ab ortion, and that he thinks is a p hrase savouring so much of con ceit on my part—(a laugh), th a t it is far from expressing what is due to the character of the Well, sir, if the right hon. gentleman will him measure. selt frame mouth. of words which he thinks ought to be put in my in the shape of a confession, I will see whether I can accept it ; but if he undertakes that task, I ver y much doubt whether he will be able to invent stronger terms of description than the words I spontane ously used at the commencement of the session. (A laugh.) The right hon. gentleman, in order to lengthen his cata logue of delinquencies, appears to me to have stolen a march upon us when ho made an error do duty twice, for the error as to the unfunded debt passed muster as the first, and subsequently as the fourth. (A laugh). I take the liberty of retrenching that excrescence, and stating what I have done with the unfunded debt. The right hon. gentleman found another error in saying that I had tampered with the funds of savings banks, and that there had been, as appeared from the papers laid on the table, iu consequence of that tampering, a loss to those persons who had invested their money in savings banks. Now, I must again say, that I rebut and repudiate the charge of having tampered with the funds of the savings banks. I have done with them precisely that which it is the duty of a Minister to do ; when the deposit money comes into his hands, he is bound to invest it according to what he be• lieves to be most for the interest of the country. (Hear, hear.) I must confess it is my opinion, and, speaking gene rally, I suppose it will be the opinion of the house, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer ought not to apply savings banks money to meet the expenses of the year. I have done, as the right hon. gentleman knows, no such thing. What then have I done ? I might have invested it in re ducing thefunded debt ' • I invested it in reducing the un funded debt. The creation of stock which took place was . a creation of stock against reduction of the unfunded debt. In that way I say you nay examine if you will that e rr! g idol). which took place in consequence of the pur c h ases mad. mad. with the moon of itaying4 *bab a ha 4 _ o *` mu" • • that it Was a more economical seduction—a more economi cal funding of Exchequer-bills, for that is what it amounts to—than had ever been made upon any former occasion. But I cannot express the astonishment with which I heard the right hon. gentleman say that the consequences of my tampering had been a loss to those who invest their money in savings banks. Why I spoke the other night of mythical histories ; but I really begin to doubt now whether it is not a mythical history that the right hon. gentleman him self was once Chancellor of the Exchequer, and that being so, he was trustee and manager of the moneys received from savings banks. (A laugh.) Why, he either has never known, or has entirely forgotten, the terms upon which these moneys are held ; and his statement of a loss to the investors is so mischievously absurd that I am bound pub licly to state to the house what I really should have hoped it would not have been necessary for me to state to the right hon. gentleman, namely, that the use made by the Chancellor of the Exchequer of the savings banks moneys has no, bearing whatever, and no conceivable connection with, the security of the parties for the amount invested by them. These investments areinvestmentsm a d e by the State for account of the State, and at the risk of the State. The covenant of the State with the depositors in savings banks is a covenant totally irrespective of that investment —the money, when received becomes the money of the State ; and these are the elementary facts of the business of a Chan ce. _or of the Exchequer. But, sir, the right hon. gentle man stated, and I think truly, that this was not the gravest error that has been committed. He said that the great error of the last year, among the series of five which he enumerated, was the error of the peace budget. Now I wish to know whether the hon. member for Fluntingdon and the right hon. gentleman are or are not prepared to challenge a verdict either from this house or from the country upon the budget of 1853? Ono would supp ose , f rom th e lan guage of the right hon. gentleman, that that was the case, because he has laid down the doctrine that no taxes what ever ought to be repealed when there is a chance of this country being engaged in a war. Now, first of all, what are the merits of that doctrine; and, secondly, what would have been our position if we had ventured to act upon it last year ? Why, sir, we had the greatest difficulty in de fending the taxes of the country from the rapacious fingers of the right hon. gentleman. (A laugh.) Not following the course which had been usual with an ex-minister of finance, the right hon. gentleman thought he best dis charged his Parliamentary duty by joining with every vote and catching every vote for the repeal of this tax or of that. (Cheers.) One week it was the hop duties—another week it was the advertisement duty, which, as a Minister, he had declined to repeal—another week it was the consolidated asumitiesawhich, as a Minister, he had declined to remit. (Cheers.) One week it was one tax, another week it was another tax, but I am in the recollection of the committee when I state that twice a week usually, until the time of the budget of 1853, it was my dut y on Tuesdays and Thursdays to app ear i n this place for the purpose of defend it n r y g — a g a a n i d n st not at a t a l w e k a s y s e istuhcecre joineds s ull y int h o e r fin leda n o c n e s b o y f t t h h e e c r g u h n t whoonui gedhnatvleembaenen. m(Cyhseueersee.)ss if I w h oul ad d e li n k t e ur t ed tax should be r e p ea l e d . (Hear.) Now, is thaot a t kn o l o a w y down wh the doctri ne th a t as long as there was what v a ch ance f w ar s u e und n doc trine or is it not? What is the situation of this country with respect to the chances of war ? Why, with the p ower you possess, with you r ex t en d e d relations, with the a rms of Britain's strength and influence encompassing the globe, there is always a chance of war for this country. There has been no period for many years past at which there have not been grave questions in agitation, sometimes in rela tion to one Power and sometimes to another, sometimes in relation to one continent and sometimes to another. If you pass over these events , you will find th a t if you are to wait for a period of absolute and entire tranquillity throughout the world, you will never repeal your taxes. (Cheers.) And now, sir, I am obliged to say—and that with out rendering myself liable to the charge of self-glorifica tion—because the budget of 1853 is the budget of the house, which adopted it, and of the people, who approved it— (cheers)—l am bound to say that, at this moment, Ido not regret the repeal of taxation which took place last year. (Renewed cheering.) I do not regret the repeal of taxes which gave an immense stimulus to the trade of the coun try, and which ended in a surplus revenue of nearly 3,500,0001. (Cheers.) Again, I say, this question goes very deep ;it opens up the history of past years—it opens up the policy with which the right hon. gentleman and, his adherents were so long identified, namely, that policy which declined to reform the finances of this country with a view to the extension of its industry—that policy which is fortunately the opposite of the policy which has go verned the proceedings of Parliament now for a period of ten or eleven years, and the happy and blessed fruits of which the people of England are 'now reaping. (Cheers.) Sir, the right hon. gentleman adverted to the charge which I made against him with respect to the income tax. I think he was perfectly justified in referring to that tax, but I wish him to understand that he has entirely miscon ceived the nature of the charge which I made against him. He says my charge was, that in December, 1832, he did not lay upon the table the schedules of the income tax. I made no such charge against him. What I said was he did lay upon the table the schedules of the income tax, and be accompanied them with a declaration that schedule A was to be taxed at 7d. in the pound, that schedule C was also to be taxed at 7d. in the pound, and that schedules D and E were to be taxed at 51d. in the pound ; and my charge against him was, that at that moment he had not prepared any plan for carrying his proposition into effect. I founded my charge not upon a mere rumour or upon any indirect information, but upon the declaration of the right hon. gentleman himself, because, when charged by a right hon. friend near me and others with the absurdities whioh would result from the schedules as he had stated them, his reply was that he had not had time to look into the sche dules. (Hear.) One word more upon the question of the peace budget. The right hon. gentleman and others miss up, in a manner not altogether convenient for the discus sions in this house, the responsibilities which attach to the department of finance, and the want of foresight and fore thought which they impute to the Government with re ference to the war. I have already stated what our posi tion was in that respect. If the Government were wrong in their anticipations of continued peace, and if they fell into error on that point, that of itself is a subject for dis cussion and consideration in this house. We do not shrink from the issue. We do not think the budget was a bad budget even fora time which threatened war. By that budget instead of sacrificing the revenue of the country, we greatly strengthened its basis and enlarged its resources. And, sir, we did more. I would like to know whether the right hon. gentleman has ever considered the moral grandeur of the spectacle which the people of England present at this moment with respect to the willingness to make great and generous efforts for a just and necessary war? (Cheers ) It is a noble attitude in which the people of England stand. There is a willingness to undergo taxation such as, I think, has never been seen in former times. Why do the people show th t willingness? Because, sir, they have confidence in the House of Commons—because they see that it has been the business of Parliament to remit taxes, and to re lieve them from burdens, when such remissions could be made. Iu my opinion, the financial measures of last year, which remitted such a large amount of taxation, with the series of similar measures which preceded them, form some part of the cause why th e p eo pl e h ave evinced so great a disposition to meet the wishes of this house, and to snake an effort to provide by an immediate sacrifice for the great expenses of the war. (Cheers.) Sir, the substance of what I have to say in regard to my own past conduct is this—it seems to ins that these are questions which have pretty nearly, to use an ancient phrase, "bolted the bran,* I think we now know pretty well all that can be said for or against them, and it is time for the house, if they wish to do more, to proceed to consider them in a more definite shape. Iu the meantime, it is needless for me to detain the committee any longer upon the matter of the unfunded debt, the conversion of the minor stocks, or the alleged tampering with the money of the savings banks. Sir, the hon. member for Huntingdon made a speech to which I listened with a sense that, while it was the speech of a gentleman opposed to us as the member of a party, and be longing to a most powerful and highly respectable class, with which, quite contrary to my desire, circumstances seem to have placed me in contact, yet, at the same time, that it was the speech of a gentleman who stated nothing that he did not sincerely and conscientiously believe, and, the speech of one, moreover, who well knew how to place his opinions and sentiments before the house. I might even go a little further, and say, that if there was one sentence in his speech which appeared to me entirely out of pl ace, it was that in which he alluded to his own want of cus tom in addressing the house, and apologised for having ventured to t s h pe a a t k l upon take t a he question bou of u much - cs-I mus t rme sal .gentlaemanto i b m e p a u fi rt r a s u t rate Palia e t l a a r b y o a ra r t ti e st o . r a l m n o e r v e e e r ffe h e e t a iv rd e u a se m o a f n hi m s a m k a u te e ri t a h ls e . r a It ra a o p- re pe I h d o i u d se n t p as on k a m r e e ( n 1 t t a o r y m o e r a t h t o a r y t of for a e n n e ( v l ee(rl saw t ot . h a e g v e e n r u y e he ai gentleman h d t i s o p f l aPyasre hui f c h the we m m autcthe dexterit y rsof iu secondary fixng i i mpo t rt he an aen e t e t ,o tio w n endm g ent the resolutions upon the table a you to vote, and in shading over a n n d ( b p is ut o ti wn ng o a u m t o n f o si ht purpose them. (Cheers.) t ( h C e h eheorus.B)o to M those resolutions. Th ey have y is, sir, to d raw th e a u t p te on nt t i h o been described by the right hon. gentleman opposite as a loan in masquerade. I have stated to the committee why I think that description is fundamentally untrue. Criti cisms may be made upon that project. One has already been made by the hon. member for Wick, who says that it would be wiser to issue the Exchequer bills at a higher rate of interest. 7 am disposed to coincide with the justice of that criticism. (Hear.) The rate of 3i per cent. was fixed at a time when, according to the best advice I could receive, there was reason to suppose that money might have been raised at that rate; but circumstances have changed since then, and with the permission of the house I will amend the resolution by saying, " at any rate not ex ceeding 4 per cent." (Hear.) I wish, sir, to describe to the house what is the meaning and intention of this pro. posal. When in March we proposed that we shonld be authorised to levy a double income tax for the first half of the financial year, taking into view the interval which should necessarily elapse before we could receive the pro ceeds of that tax, we asked for power to raise 1,750,0001. by Exchequer bills. When we came to make a farther proposal to the house, and to propose to raise nearly 7,000,0001. of new taxes, wo had to consider that not only the sa me but a more considerable interval must elapse be. fore the proceeds of these two taxes should reach the ex chequer. Twopence halfpenny upon the income tax will yield us about 3 , 2 50,0001., but no appreciable portion of that sum will be realised within the financial year at all. It will only begin to be realised, with certain small excess , tions, after the month of April 1855. Nearly the same is the case with regard to the other duties. With respect to tho malt duty, the proceeds of which formed the principal item in the catalogue, after the income tax, it will not begin! to be r ea li se d i n any cons id era b le quant i ty unt il th e w inte r has t:t haa approached; and therefore it f o llowed, as a mat t er had course, that when the right hon. gentlemen near after be—a work of no small difficulty—it was our duty. to framed their estimates of what the war expenditure it would determining to call upon Parliament to m . ak e e .o _ _ meet that expenditure by new taxes, like i wis of t mo in n a e 7 l ; e y4 l a posal with regard to a temporary tshie matter; and it is these taxes could be received. No public balances may be referred to about 1,000,000/. or so, true that, to some limited extent, raise money even irre spectivesysn,uPiPr the lowness of the it, might have been necessary . 4ir that we are making to the of the war. But,' The object of the proposition that place it is necessary to an ticipate was a small matter. house is twofold. In the firs us over the interval be 'th funds to carry to supply us with In the second, it is imposaible raised. the taxes which the house has been pleased to vote fore the taxes can be at the opening of to form a reliable calculation of what our expenditure Pitt thought he made an ad equa t e provision for the ex p e nses o f swa will ill be the e r w tw ar el b v y e months ereat before hand.ing6mil In 1 7 93 Mr . li o ns of debt, whi c h realised 4 millions in money • but so far did ' the expenditure exceed his estim a t e, that he was obliged to create some millions of unauthorised debt in the w bu il t l be in e cour se of t he year.ndlerpreeitreenudmnsteatntecosfolriekse wha t foresee our expen diture u order to endeavour to provide for the future as far as pos sible, we ask you to give us this considerable margin—this considerable power of raising money, with a view to the services which may be sanctioned by Parliament, or which it may be necessary to undertake without the sanction of Parliament—and in order to meet this extraordinary state of tkinip—a state of things unknown to out area" -----------' 3IA, g at aria. 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