The Sun. — London, England, 1854-02-21 00:00:00

►A Y.) )ut upon tha 11. The qusn and West In• ntrreis ; thero s, 61 tierces. is 1,219 hhds, grocery lumps © 478 9d to 485, the, East and There were and s, and ex• atne places is , ;her rates, as .diti.cm to the. )n aLI sold af firm. r. A parcel cwt,. rm rates. cwt. on the Os ; clover 2s per load. t 53; clover 1 3s par load. ;/ Os; clover ! 2s per load. DAY.) loon, N.E. ; T.N.W. gew York.— mimeneetd ra ng, has b ee n taking any ig prohibited ter), of Dun- The Wil e at Csistor, )d—Zenobia, rrived—Wil - of fore and inst. S.W., light. , assisted in damaged. 3 believed to :.es of wreck ;to a ‘, le of a vessel ig Wilhelm, to this port, ,nsatd ; two nbnrg, from of Borkuu; aq been ex . (I a number Billy, from onsiderable bArge. The an cutport Nuttunas Fnr-onnel, olrd ; must .0.30 a.m. ived here as hore on the ce of steam its port, in rater in her APR.) 0.30 a.m. ; Asia, St. 'a; Giraffe t (s), Ilar (a), Ham :ntta ; Re- finer, West Elarlingen. 1 .20 a.m. »Ith ; Em- •y, Charles If the out• IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS--(YESTERDAY.). The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at 5 o'clock. On the motion of Lord SIONTEAGLE a return was ordered of the desfatches of the Governor of South Australia, re specting certain recent geographical discoveries in that colony. REFORM OF THE ECCLESIASTICAL COURTS. In reply to the Marquis of CLANRICARDE , The I, RD CHANCELLOR said the bill which he had Introduced for the reform of the ecclesiastical courts only applied to England; bat if the same necessity existed in Ireland for legislation, and he believed there did, he had no doubt the Government would propose to extend the provisions of the measure to that country. The matter was now under his considkration, but until he had inves tigated it further, he coultl not undertake to say whether such a bill for Ireland would be introduced. The Duke of ARGYLL presented a petition from a Free Church congregation in Scotland in favour of a system of national education in that country. THE EASTERN QUESTION. Lord BEAUMONT gave notice of his intention to move, on Friday next, a resolution to the effect that it appeared that the efforts of this country and her allies to re establish friendly relations between the Sultan and Russia had failed, and that it was the opinion of this house that the honour and best interests of this country required that immediate and effectual measures should be taken to repel the unjustifiable aggression of Russia on the territory of the Sultan, and that the power and influence of this country should be exerted to place the relations of the Porte, with the rest of Europe, on such a foundation as might appear best calculated to secure a durable peace, and afford the Ottoman empire a fair opportunity of developing its natural resources, and of proceeding to administrative reform. Their lordships then adjourned. HOIISE OF COMMONS—( Y ESTERDAY. ) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEIIBER. Mr. PALK took the oaths and his seat for South Devon, in room of Sir R. Lopes, deceased. PRIVATE BUSINESS. On the motion of Mr. BROTHERTON, leave was given to bring in a number of private bills. The bills were after wards brought in and read a first time. SECOND READINGS. The following bills were read a second time, and ordered to be committed :—Bangor Waterworks ; Barns ley Local Board of Health ; Bethseda and Llanlleched Im provement ; Bideford Roads ; Birkenhead Railway (Lease and Traffic Arrangements) ; Birmingham Improvement ; Birmingham and Midland Institute ; Bolton Improvement ; Border Counties Railway ; Brad ford, Wakefield, and Leeds Railway ; Burnley Im provement; Caledonian Railway (Lesmahagow Branches, Ae.) ; Catholic Law and General Life' Assurance Company ; Cork and Waterford Railway ; Darlington Local Board of Health ; Dowlais Railway ; Dudley, Hales Owen, and Bromsgrove Roads ; Eastern Counties Railway (Station Enlargement, &c.); Edinburgh Police and Improvement ; Furness Railway; Great Western Railway (Barks anti Hants,' &c.) ; Ipswich Corporation Water-works ; Lanark Police and Improvement : Leeds, Bradford, and Halifax Junction Railway ; Leitrim Coal and Iron Company ; Londonderry Port ; Londonderry and Coleraine Railway; London and Enniskillen Rail way ; London, Tilbury, and Southend Railway ; London and North-Western and Midland Railway Com panies (Traffic Arrangements) ; Manchester Court of Record ; Midland Great Western Railway of Ireland ; Newcastle upon-Tyne and Carlisle Railway; Norfolk Railway; Padi bam Waterworks ; Potteries, Biddnlph, and Congleton :Railway; Saint Mawes, Port, Harbour, and Pier ; Selkirk and Gallashiels Railway; Severn Valley Railway; Shrewsbury and Hereford Railway (Leasing) ; South Eastern Railway (Lewisham to Bomley, &c.) ; Stockton, Middlesbrough, and Yarm Water ; Sunderland and South Shields Waterworks ; Torquay Railway ; Trowbridge Roads ; Wells and Fakenham Railway ; West Bromwich Improvement, &c. ; West London and Crystal Palace Railway (Amalgamation, Sale, or Lease) ; West minster Terminus Railway ; Yeovil Improvement. - PETITIONS. Mr. E. BALL presented a petition from the Guardians' of the Newmarket Union praying for an amendment of the law of settlement. Mr. FAGAN presented petitions from the proprietors of several Irish new%papers, praying for the repeal of the paper duty. Mr. FOX presented a petition from the inhabitants of Oldham in favour of vote by ballot. Mr. COLLIS presented a petition from the Guardians of Plymouth praying for the repeal of the law of settle - Iment. Mr. CRAUFORD presented a petition from the corpo ration of Forfar in favour of decimal coinage. Mr. M. GIBSON presented a petition from the Na tional Temperance Society praying for the abolition of the newspaper stamp. Mr. E SMITH presented a petition from Stratford pray ing for the abolition of existing system of taking coasting trade. Mr. HEADLAM presented a petition from Newcastle upon-Tyne in favour of throwing open the coasting trade to foreign ships PARLIAMENTARY REFORM. Sir E. DEA.RING gave notice that on the second reading of the bill to amend the representation of the people of England and Wales, he should move a resolution to -the effect that 4 .ihe state of our foreign rela lions renders the present moment inopportune for the dis suasion of any measure of PrArliamentary Reform. (aieers.) Mr. G. E. H. VERN( . .iN wished in reference to the Parliamentary Representation Bill, to ask Lord J. Russell whether the calculation of the population in counties has been made exclusive of, the population of all repre3ented towns and places ;;such as , for instance, the Hundred of Bassetla,w, in the l'%orthernDivision of Nottinghamshire. Lord J. RUSSELL said some returns had been moved for by the hon. member for Montrose, and which were in preparation, warald supply all the information asked for. Mr. HUME asked when the Reform Bill would be de. livered. Lord JOHN RUSSELL replied immediately. THE WAR QUESTION. Mr. COBDEN wished to ask the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London whether the Government had come to any decision with reference to blockading the commercial ports of Russia. He asked this question in consequence of the order in council which had just been issued with reference to the exportation of arms and ma chinery. Lord J. RUSSELL replied that no decision had come to or order given upon the point. Mr. BRIGHT wished to ask the noble lord a question upon the subject of the proclamation referred to by his honoumble friend. Part of that proclamation referred to machinery. Now, large contracts for machinery remained in Wit country incomplete, from other nations besides Measles. For instance, there was a contract from Denmark few half a million of machinery, which had yet to be supplied, while there was a firm at present that was in the habit of forwarding coastwise machinery and implements to be used for agricultural purposes only, and since it was just possible that large bodies of persons might be thrown out of employment if this proclamation was not precisely understood, he wished to ask the noble lord what was the real construction to be put upon it. He wished to know if the proclamation was to be construed according to the broad meaning of its words, or did the Government intend to issue any instructions by which the trade might still be carried on and left as free as possible. (Hear, hear.) The house should understand that there were other countries that we traded with besides Russia, and if this proclamation was strictly enforced, our foreign customers would he driven to America or Belgium. (Hoar.) Mr. WILSON said, as this was purely a Treasury ques -tion, and as he was cognisant of all the arrangements that had taken place with reference to this proclamation, perhaps he might be allowed to answer the question. Now, the cir cumstance which gave rise to the issue of this proclamation was this: last week the Commissioners of Customs reported to the Treasury that large quantities of ammunition had been entered outwards for Odessa, and having been so entered outwards, the Commissioners thought it to be their duty to call the attention of the Govern ment to the fact. (Loud cheers.) It then became the duty to consider what powers the law had armed them with in order to prevent such an exportation being effected. and they wore advised by the Solicitor of Customs that the only course that was properly open to them was to avail themselves of a clause in the act of Parliament passed last session for the consolidation of the Customs Acts. This clause empowered the Government to prohibit the expor tation of arms and ammunition, when the exigencies of the State required such a step, and accordingly this pro clamation had been issued to meet the case he had already referred to ; but where it could be shown that the articles to be exported were not intended for the enemy, or to be used in any way against our allies or the cause in which we wore engaged, tho Commissioner of Customs had received permission to let An order in council would accordingey be them pass. issued to-more ow, authorising to pass all shipments where there was no strong, clear, and positive reason for suppos ing that they were intended for the enemy. (Cheers.) Mr. BRIGHT remarked then that the proclamation did to all exportations to the ports of not absolutely apply Russia. (Hear, hear.) Mr. WILSON observed that was not what he said. But a case in point would explain what he meant to con vey. A vessel—the Gem—had been entered outwards for Alexandria with a large quantity of machinery on board, such as was generally used for propelling st l e l am vessels, and upon the Commissioners of Customs ea thatthe the machinery was not intended for the use o enemy, he produced a letter showing that the mac i nery was intended for the use of, and had been ordered by the Pacha of Egypt. The commissioner upon receiving that proof had not the slightest hesitation in immediately allowing the shipment to take place, and this would be the course followed with reference to all future shipments and wherever it could be satisfactorily shown that the ship ments were not for the use of the enemy they would be allowed to pass. (Cheers.) Sir J. WALSH wished to ask the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London if the Government had re ceived any official information of an outbreak amongst the Greek subjects of the Ottoman empire, and if so, had they any reason to suppose that such an insurrection had been fomented and instigated by the Government or the King of Greece? (Hear.) Lord J. RUSSELL said the Government had received information that such an outbreak had taken place at Arva, but they had received nothing to induce them to believe that the insurrection had been fome n t e d by th e Ki ng o f G re ece. (Hear.) The s ubject then dropped. PAROCHIAL SURVEYORS. Mr. M. SMITH wished to ask the noble lord the Sec retary of State for the Home D partment, whether it is the intention of Government to introduce any measure during the present Session of Parliament, for placing the repair of the highways in England and Wales under district of parochial surveyors. Lord PALMERSTON said no such measure was in preparation. BOARD OF HEALTH. Mr. COLLIER wished to ask the Secretary for the Home Department, whether the Government intend to propose any alterations in the Health of Towns Act. Sir W. MOLESWORTH said the Act of Parliament constituting the Board of Health would expire at the end of the preeent eelaion, And therefore it would be necessary for him to ;ring in a bill to reconstruct the board, and in that meastu3 various improvements would be made in the constitutioE of the board. GLASGOW POST-OFFICE. Mr. MICGREGOR asked the cause of the delay in completing Ae Post-office at Glasgow? Mr. WILN replied, the delay was chiefly attributable to the peopleof Glasgow themselves, but the works would be speedily reamed. ADJOURMD DEBATE—THE WAR QUESTION. On the ordr of the day to resume the adjourned debate on Mr. LAY.RD'S motion respecting our relations with Russia, Mr. COMM rose and said, it was because, even after the speech of the noble lord- (Lord J. Russell) on Friday night, which sounded to him (Mr. Cobden) like the war blast before t,e crash of arms, he was still at a loss to make out exactly or position. We had been now so excited by the aggressionif Russia upon Turkey, that we looked upon it as an affron to ourselves, and so had nearly forgotten the origin of this ntserable quarrel. It should be borne in mind that in 1851 a tentleman, M. Lavallette, presented himself at Constantimple, and shocked us by the " emrgetic" way in which h insisted upon the restoration of the Holy Places, almost a rudely as Prince Monschikoff did after wards. That gntleman Lavallette) represented the Republic of Frttce, and he it was who first disturbed the status quo aboulthe Holy Places. We were told that, in the case of France, 1 was true she most handsomely withdrew her demand. (her, hear.) But still, it must be remem bered, that it we France that first disturbed the status quo. It was hart-sickening to find that, after 700 or 800 years of Clrietianitv, we were going to fight —the world was going .o be deluged in blood, not for Christian ity but for Malommedanism. (Cries of " Oh.") The hon. member real a proclamation from the Sultan, and a counter-proclamaion from Russia, about the guarantee for the Holy ?laces. The Porte refused to give' a special, but aped to give a general, guarantee on this subject, and the four Powers then drew np a note with the object, which was approved by the English and Freach Governments, and accepted by the Emperor of Rosie, but refused by Turkey, and words bearing an interpretation different from those previously agreed to by Tarkty proposed to be inserted in the note. That being the h4ory of the matter, the practical ques tion we have befog us was, was it wise or prudent that Turkey should have been advised not to sign that note ? Wlat did Russia want ? An oppor tunity of interfeing in Turkey when she chose, pre cisely as we did rith Brazil, when we endeavoured to make her respect ler own treaties. It had been said we were endeavouring to sustain the independence of Turkey; but the question wad, had Turkey any real independence; and it came to this—that we were going to deluge Europe with blood on an infinitessimal ground of quarrel. If Turkey were a country with a population all highly civilised—if a similar thing occurred for instance with re gard to Prussia, and after helping Prussia to get rid of her oppressors, we could then leave her to her own excel lent Government. But was that the case with Turkey ?He said, whether it came from Russia or from England, the Christian population of Turkey were looking for aid against their own Government. He (Mr. Cobden) at the close of last session, when this subject was incidentally brought for ward, stated to the house what was now made clear, that it was the condition of the Christian population of Turkey formed the main feature of this quarrel. Lord Stratford had left Constantinople last year not expecting to go back to it, and he was then entertained at a dinner by the British residents, and he made a speech there. Lord Stratford was, however, specially re-appointed to Constantinople, and he (Mr. Cobden) would read to the house an extract from Lord Clarendon's despatch to Lord Stratford, in which he was instructed to make strong re monstrances with the Sultan and his Government on the reckless mad-administration of the Turkish empire as re garded the Christian population. On 21th June Lord Cla rendon again wrote to Lord Stratford teliing him to re monstrate with the Porte against the inferiority of the position of the Christian population, inasmuch as their evidence would not be received in the Turkish Courts of Law. Lord Clarendon further instructed Lord Stratford, to urge upon the Porte that such a state of things " could no longer be tolerated by Christian Powers. Now he (Mr. Cobden) asked what good came of an alliance between two governments, where the one asks the other to abandon tho dictates of the Koran—which entered into the civil law as ' well as into the religious observances of the Turkish people. About that very time Lord Stratford had very properly caused inquiries to be made, through our consuls in Turkey, as to the state of the Christian population. Lord Stratford got a great number of these reports, which he (Mr. Cobden) was sorry to find so garbled in the blue-books. Those reports Lord Stratford submitted to the Turkish Government, and he wrote twice to that Government afterwards, pressing upon them again and again the cruelties exercised towards the Christian population. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Cobden) said when he alluded last session to the state of Turkey. the noble lord the member for Tiverton (Lord Palmerston) made a declaration to this effect—" I assert, without fear of con tradi -tion, that Turkey so far from having gone back dur ing the last 30 years, has made more improvement in every possible way than perhaps was ever made by any other country during the same period." (Hear, hear.) Now, he (Mr. Cobden) asked if the noble lord was still of that opinion, and if he was, upon what intelligible grounds he founded it—for certainly those reports of our own consuls in Turkey, and the language used by Lord Clarendon in his despatches to Lord Stratford, told a very different tale. (Hear.) We were asked to form an alli ance with Turkey, or to use a commercial phrase, to go into partnership with her, and he maintained that it was the more necessary we should inquire into her present con dition and future prospects. It might perhaps be said that the discontent of the Christians in Turkey was stirred up by neighbouring countries ; but it appeared to him that the sufferings and wrongs of the Christians in turkey were so great that they must explode, and we might expect to hear of an insurrection - among them. He (Mr. Cobden) did not mean to disparage the Turk because he was of a different religion from himself, but he maintained that the majority of the population of Turkey were themselves Christians ; and they might depend upon it, if Tur key was invaded by Russia, and those consular documents and ambassadorial despatches be true, we might send 20,000, or 30,000, or 50,003 troops there, it would be in vain for us, with the great body of the people of Turkey against us. He hoped, at ad events, that the troops we were going to send to Turkey would not be employed in settling any internal dispute in that country. but that we would carry out the nonintervention principle in that respect, at all events. Looking at it as a religious question, although he was not disposed to make it one, was there not a strong religious feeling in Turkey ? There was nothing but religions fanaticism on the one sid , and impious religions manifestoes on the other. Oxier Paella made no appeal to any but the Mahomedan element, telling them, in his address, when fighting with the enemy, to be firm and courageous, and to be ready to sacrifice their he a ds a n d th e i r lives for their religion and their Government. The appeal was made solely to the fanaticism of the country, and the Maltotnedans formed only a fourth of the whole population of Turkey in Europe. It was no patriotic appeal —it was re] igi'ais fanaticism, that brought up troops from the remote parts of Asia and Africa. That certainly was no proof of the progress of improvement in a country, unless the being able to maintain an army six months in the field could be considered such. He would not have referred to the com mercial view of the question if it had not been used as an orpiment by other hon. gentlemen, who contended that the war with Russia would have the effect of putting a stop to our Trade with Turkey. That was referred to by a noble lord in order to show how insignificant our trade was with Russia as compared with Turkey. He believed that feel ing, which he would show to be erroneous, was very much shared in by the people of this country, and that there was a feeling abroad that we were about to fight for pecu niary gain. He was prepared to show that that feeling was erroneous. It was not easy to ascertain the precise amount of the trade between this country and Russia; but he had gone into the City among he most eminent merchants engaged in the Russian, Greek, and Levant trades, and he was astonished at the result of his inquiries, as he had not estimated it at half so much. He had been told that the trade with Russia, that their exports to this country were less than 2,0J0,000/.—that Russia was a protectionist country, and was under a protectionist delusion, as many persons in this country formerly were. (A laugh.) He had been under the impression that their exports amounted to 5,000,0001. or 6,000,0001., and some persons said that even that was an exaggeration. He got his information from sources that might be relied upon. He had got the account from the different houses, and here were the exports for the last year : Tallow £1,800,000 Linseed 1,300,000 Flax and hemp Wbeat Wool 300,000 Oats Other grain., 500,000 Bristles Timber, deal, - and other woods Iron Copper 140,000 Hides 60,000 Miscellaneous matters Making in all 13.020,0001. as our imports from Russia. (Hoar, hear.) That was in the year 1853, when there was a large import of wheat. The other house to which he applied gave him an average year, making the amount 11,030,000/. • but it put down wheat at 2,000,0001. instead of 4,000,0004, which made precisely the difference. He was informed that, in addition to that, about 1,000,0001. sterling of produce of Russia came down the Bug, the Vis tula, and from other ports in the Black Sea ; and he was under the mark when he said that the exports of Russia t M os t o f t h ese were articles of paramount value to this co un t ry m i g h t b e taken at 12,000,0001. sterling an nually.instainmcpe. How importance could theirtotheirm machinery anictur or es. how could Take tallow, for and locomotives travel unless they had grease for their wheels g ) e r e i t k h n r e e w g regard that to n 0 1 ins persons,e ed,th the were c (l am la b u r ighd()or. hon. member d in its supply than the agriculturists.more interested that the food for cattle was too They complained high. Did they want the linseed cut off? As regarded flax and hemp, in the large constituency he had the ho nour to represent, if a state of things could be supposed i n w hi c h they would be cu t o ff w from all intercourse with Rus s i a , there ouidbe y great distress and misery in some districts in theN v V e e r st Riding of Yorkshire. Again, Russian iron • was an article which entered into the production of their finest steel ; he was told in Sheffield that they would find it difficult to carry on the finest part of their manufactures unless they were supplied with Russian iron. He turned now to Turkey. It was stated that their trade with Turkey amounted to about three millions. That was true, but he believed that only one million of what was set down as exports to Turkey went to Persia, Trebizond, and central Asia, through the Black Sea. Turkey did not import for its own consumption more than 2,000,0001. or 2,500,0001., so thet they had a Russian trade that was three times greater than that of Turkey. There was no one foreign country whose trade was so important to the people of erhaps, the United States ; England as Russia, except, p and it should be remembered that all their exports went in their own bottoms. There could be no ground, then, for the commercial preference given to Turkey; on the con trary, it was all on the other side. Now, with regard to the war, he would not say a word except as to the means. Were they to convey land forces into Turkey, or would they not fall back upon the common , sense and experience of twenty or thirty years ape? What would come of it if they were to fight battles , 1 500 miles off, with land forges ? He thought they ought not to send their armies to be mixed up with the internal con tests of a semi-barbarous country. They might send 20,000 or 30,000 men, but they would find great difficulty in getting'them away again. Let them send their natural strength—their fleets—to protect Turkey externally; but . let them not send their armies. Let them look at France. TETE SUN LONDON, TLTESDAY EVENING, FEBRUARY 21, 1854. When did she get her troops away from Rome, or from Algiers ? What was the war for ? Was it a war they were about to fight on behalf of a balance of Power. and the protection of Europe ? Was the time come when the great contest of which they were told between Cossackism and Republicanism was to be brought to an issue ? Was Eng land the only nation that was to make war for such a pur pose ? He thought the noble lord had rather broken down in that part of his speech when he spoke of Russia being the common disturber of Europe. It was very probable that all the states of Europe, except France and England, would remain neutral. (Hear, hear.) Let them take a glance at the map of Europe, and they would find there was between them and Russia, Austria and Prussia, and all the German states, Belgium and Holland, Sweden and Norway—countries possessing some 70,000,00 , 1 or so,coo,oao of people, and having some 700,000 or 800,000 men under arms. These nations had been for the last ten, or at least five years almost constantly drilling, parading, and m anmuv ring troops. Every ante-room in every foreign court was filled with uniforms either scarlet 1r blue. Every one thought that it was to carry out the antiquated notion—the venerable delusion of a resistance to the Huns and Goths who were about to overrun Europe, and when they come to analyse the matter, they found that England was about to send some 20,000 or 30,000 troops over the backs, if he might use the expression, of the Belgian, the Dutch, the Swedes, the Austrians, and the Prussians, the most mili tary part of Europe, to fight battles for their safety. (Hear, hear.) If, as the noble rd said, there was danger to Europe—if all mankind had an interest in the question —then he would say, above all things, it was a case in which all those who were nearest the danger should be the first to resist it. Instead of Prussia and Austria entering into this quarrel they allowed England—and island inap proachable by land and impregnable by sea—to take up their cause. Ho would say, that, so far from England be ing in danger, she might be said to be the only country in Europe that was invulnerable. Without making any con dition that these countries should assist us, we were send ing 20,000 troops, who were cheered in going through the streets, to be transported 1,500 miles in order to get be tween Russia, Austria, Prussia and the rest of Europe. Was not that a specimen of the combativeness which was called John Bullism ?—was not that a specimen of the conduct which had led them to incur a debt heavier than that of all the rest of the world put together? They were going again to repeat the same game; their ap peals to the other states of Europe were in vain. They had said, led us to take this opportunity of putting down a monstrous evil. The answer of these states was—No, we do not move. Why? Because we do not believe in the danger —because we do not believe that Cossackism is menacing Europe. They had a firm conviction that Eng land was fighting her own battles for her own commercial interests. When he heard the hon. and learned gentleman the member for Sheffield -and no one rejoiced to see him there more than himself—(hear)—when he heard him dealing unmeasured and unqualified invective upon a cer tain gentleman of the peace party—he said, "he is himself again." (Great laughter and cheering.) It was said we must fight Russia now, or we should have to fight her ulti mately, and that if we did, not only prevent her from taking Constantinople, but also cut her off from the Cau casus, our Indian empire would be imperilled. Why this was just the sort of language to induce the French people to suppose that, after all, we were inspired only by selfish feelings and for the sake of commercial superiority, instead of the welfare of the world. It was just the way to arouse the suspicions of our neighbours as to English "rapacity" and " perfidy." And then if France left us we should have no one to join us in our war. Was there no party in that house who would contend that if we were to interfere in it at all, it s ould be solely by our navy, and that we should abstain from sending a miserable army of 20,000 meu to the banks of the Danube, while the great mili tary powers of Europe stood passive spectators of the struggle ? (Hear, hear.) There were in this country not only those who believed all war un-Christian, even in self-defence, but those who, like the late Sir R. Peel, thought it wis.? to allay the spirit of war by that of politi cal propagandism or agitation. He (Mr. Cobden) was a supporter of that policy. He desire I to abate our martial enthusiasm, and to allay our national combativeness. It was a good quality ; he had it himself (a laugh), but he did not like to see this nation for ever animated by a pre judice for some nation or another—now France, now Russia, and for ever hurried on by such prejudices into war. He declared that he desired to fall back on the Vienna note. (Laughter.) He saw nothing objectionable in it - -indeed, the four powers had agreed to it. And its adoption would save the honour of the Sultan (if rid of diplomacy) for that very reason— as it was not the note of Prince Menschikoff, but of the four powers. As for any reluctance diplomatists might feel at retracing their steps, or contradicting th&r course, he did not care much for that ; the credit of diplomacy in the transaction had been so badly sustained that another inconsistency could not be of any consequence. At all events, he gladly embraced all the unpopularity that now belonged to an opposition against this war, and he believed that before six months had passed there would be none so unpopular as those who supported it. (Hear, hear.) Lord J. MANNERS trusted that the people of England would never consider whether they were going to war on behalf of the majority of the inhabitants of Turkey or not, nor whether the balance of trade was in our favour or the contrary, but whether the will of the Autocrat of Russia was to overbear that of the free Parliament of England. He thought great blame attributable to the Government for mismanagement in the early stages of the negotiations, Lord Clarendon having persisted to the last in believing the amicable assurances of Russi s, and disregarding the warnings of her deceitful policy which were addressed to him by British agoras abroad. At the failure of Prince Menschikeff's mission only did the English Government determine to act cordially, in conjunction with France, to check the monstrous pretensions of Russia. Had they d one so at an, earlier period, was it credible that that envoy would, on the lith of April, have received fresh instructions to press his demands to the utmost? If their course had been more firm, war might have been averted. After the Turks had declared war, it was unjustifiable in Government to hold out the renewal of the treaty of Kai nardji as a basis of negotiation and peace, that treaty having furnished Russia with her pretexts for vexatious interference. With reference to the demand of Ministers for a vote of censure on the one hand, or unlimited con fidence on the other, he contended that the course taken by the Opposition vrors the valy criercorapatrible-rrith a re solve to abstain from embarrasing the future action of her Majesty's Government. They would vote men and money, and Rapport any measures that might be necessary in the situation in which the country was placed, but they must express the opinions they had formed on the past con duct of the negotiations. He hoped that the efforts of our arms in the coming contest would not be frustrated and sacrificed by the blunders of our diplomacy. Mr. HORSMAN thought it would have been better to raise this question by a distinct motion than by an inci dental and desultory discussion. He must express his re gret at the tone of the speech delivered by the hon. mem ber for the West Riding, and his dissent from many of its positions and arguments. The question now was nothing more nor less than this—shall the Emperor of Russia be Emperor of Turkey also ? The conquest of Turkey, fol lowed as it would be assuredly by that of Greece, implied not only the extension of Russian dominion from the White Sea to the Mediterranean, but dictatorship over Europe, and the ascendency of a semi.barbaroas race over the more civilized, intellectual, and enlightened nations of the West The balance of power woulii be destroyed, the commerce of England endangered, her Indian empire more than threatened, and the liberties of Europe at an end. Never in modern history had there been such a crime as the Russian attack on Turkey, accompanied by aggravations so revolting; and the pretext offered for it, the protection of religion, added to its infamy. During the progress of hos tilities, the Turks had proved their moral superiority to their enemies, and entitled themselves to the admiration of Europe. Throughout the negotiations, the position of Government had been one of great difficulty, and no other course had been suggested which, if adopted by Min isters, would not have been equally doubtful at the time, and probably more disastrous in its issue. The object of the Government had been to reconcile the settlement of great European questions with the warding off the calami ties of war. But if war was inevitable, as he believed it to have been from the first, it was impossible we could have been placed in a combination of circumstances so advanta geous to us giving life to our movements and union to our councils. If England and France were true to their own honour and interests, the Czar was now at their mercy, and ho must accede to any terms they might dictate. He wished, however, the noble lord the member for London had comforted the house the other night by assuring them that they were not going to war to re-establish the status quo and the renewal of the old treaties. It was our duty to take effectual guarantees for the future ; and, in order that the aggression on Turkey might not be repeated, he :rusted that one of the conditions of peace would be that Russia should make indemnity for the expenses of the war, or that Turkey should receive compensation in having the territories of which she had been deprived restored to her. Mr. H. D RUMMO ND had learned that ministers were going to war, but could net imagine among which class in the country, they could expect support. The manufac turers were ready to make arms for the enemy ; the tax payers would soon discover that every additional burden must ultimately fall upon industry; and the Opposition, though ready enough to pass votes which were soon to lead the ministry into a mess, would infallibly turn every event to account for the purpose of dislodging the Government, whose members would then in their turn play the same game against their successors. When the people of this country were entering upon a war, it was right and proper that they should be told why they ware going to war. He confessed that, after all he had read in the blue book and heard in that house, he did not know. But he believed that we were entering upon another religious war—ano ther crusade for the tomb of Geoffrey de Bouillon, which was already so broken th .t it was hardly perceptible, and into doing that they had been led by the author of all mis chief—the Pope. (Laughter.) Upon England the re sult of the war could be only damaging—we should have nothing but hard blows to get and heavy bills to pay. This was the popular war into which the whole country was anxious to plunge. The country was, no doubt, angry with Russia; but he must say that no one had more con tributed to excite that anger than the hon. gentleman behind him (Mr. Cobden), who even at one time talked of " crumpling up" that Power altogether. If the hon. gen tleman would put that threat into execution now, it would save a world of trouble. (Laughter.) Mr. Drummond then referred to the primary cause of the dispute, arising from the question of the Holy Places, and contended that the war, instead of being waged, as pretended, on behalf of the balance of power, was in reality a religious war Lord J. Russell in one of his despatches said—" We should deeply regret any dispute that might lead to con flict between two of the great Powers of Europe; but when we reflect that the quarrel is for exclusive privileges in a spot near which the heavenly host proclaimed peace on earth and good will towards men—when we see rival churches contending for mastery in the very place where Christ died for mankind—the thought of such a spectacle is very melancholy indeed. Your excellency will under stand, therefore, first, that into the merits of this dispute her Majesty's Government will not enter. 2d, That her Majesty's Government disapprove of every threat, and still more of the actual employment of force. 3(1, That both parties should be told that if they are sincere in their professions of a desire to maintain the independence of the Porte, they ought to abstain from the employment of any means calculated to display the weakness of the Ottoman empire. Above all, they ought to refrain from putting armies and fleets in motion for the purpose of making the tomb of Christ a cause of quarrel among Christians. He thought these expressions were creditable to the writer, to the Sovereign whom he served, and the Ministry of which he formed a part. But still the question returned, why was not the country told all this a year ago ? (Hear.) They were told little, but it was said that much din well, as a present to his was being don e . Th at reminded him of a story o f a High lander, who, r e t urn i ng from abroad, brought w i t h hi m a parrot, which sp o k e exceedingly lady-love. Anoth er Hi g hl ander, determined to ma k e a similar present to his fair one, went to Edinburgh and purchased an owl. He was reminded that it could not talk, to which he replied, "Ay, but see what apower of thought he has." (Great laughter.) It had been said, and chiefly by gentlemen on that side of the house, that we interfered a great deal too much with Continental matters. He had himself often thought so, but not precisely on the same grounds. In his opinion, there never was a time when we could have so well escaped Continental meddling as the present. But he now came to what was called the balance of power. His noble friend said, the other sight, that he was surprised that any one should speak slightingly of the balance of power, for it was a subject which had occupied the attention of the statesmen of Europe in all times. It would, no doubt, ill become him (Mr. Drum mond) to speak with disrespect of anything which was deemed so important; but, without venturing any opinion against the opinions of greater and wiser men, he would take the liberty of mentioning certain facts. They all know the time when consternation seized every Minis ter of foreign affairs in Europe because a Bourbon was going to mount the throne of Spain or Naples. Nov, in point of fact, was France one whit more powerful after that event than before? It was notorious that she was not; nor did he believe that, if the intention of Catherine—an intention shown by the fact of her christening her second. son Constantine—of placing him on the throne of Constan tinople was fulfilled, Russia would be one whit more pow erful than she was at present; nor did he believe that, if the Emperor succeeded just now in seating his 'erother on that throne, we should be one whit the worse off. How could we possibly uphold Turkey? We appeared to have found out that the maintenance of the independence of Turkey, our old, or, as she was more generally called, our ancient ally, was necessary to the balance of power in Europe. How ice the world had we never found out this before, when we took away from her the whole kingdom of Greece? How came we not to think of this before the should camebb hhtu a i oeett Helen'su t ßw l ecalwe Ottoman 1 ckoekos:Neci?t knocked ooege v rlmd a owtt r pfdh i awi n oirrtna li ti wsoc oatecu ( hfsro H peturtha e fihewi rliresldu. wrong went t eghh h s, h p snaw i ttno t eess a wrrt l a b tr nwe a o.) t s htswldee Howendoe, so under the pretence of upholding the balance of power. He read, the other day, a remarkable passage in a speech of Mr. Burke in that house, in 1791, in reply to some speaker who alluded to the importance of the balance of power. That distinguished orator showed the impolicy of our espousing the cause of the Ottoman Power, observing that the consequence of entering into war on her behalf would be to involve us in great expense, and to reduce the people of a Christian nation to the level' of heathens. (Hear.) He would now ask, where were we going to war? He admitted that matters had been managed with a great deal of wisdom and discretion by the Government, La it was not very long ago since, with great difficulty, they persuaded the people of this country to look at the real defenceless nature of its shores, and to allow them to put these shores in a better, but by no means complete, state of defence. It was then in fashion to cry up the Emperor Alexander, and down with the Emperor Napoleon. This year we turned about, and the Emperor Napoleon was metamor phosed into a faithful ally, whom we s poke o f i n pane gyrics, and who joined us in making war against the tyrant Nicholas. And what were you doing ? You were sending the elite of our army to the uttermost limits of Europe, or rather into Asia, leaving the Emperor of France to send his contingent—those reprobate troops—those con demned regiments of ' Algiers ; and when the noble lord talked of t;ie horrors of Sinope, he wondered he did not think also of the smoke in the case of General Palliser. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Drummond) would certainly be no nnsntetgtoounttrlth.etawini remembered Lord St. party to any vexatious vote which would tend to weaken the Government of the country; but he should like to know who was to be the Minister of War. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Canning thought it of sufficient importance to insist that Lord Castlereagh should not be such a Minister. He (Mr. Drummond) asked this question, because all saw enough to know that at the present moment there was a fee.le hand at the helm—(cheers from the Oppo sition)—there was a trembling of the topsails, and a vibra tion throughout the hull, that showed he did not under stand how to avoid the breakers. He was also without a chart or a compass for his guidance, and his crew was not a particularly united one. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Drummond) considered that the character of no general or admiral was safe in the hands of the existing Ministry, and he believed they were capable of sacrificing either of them to place or to factions in that house. They, at least, did not hesitate to do so in the case of Brooke, (Cheers.) If, however, they were determined to go to war—if it were true that it was to establish the balance of power—if it were true that they were resolved to humble the Russian and to support the Infidel—if they would compel Austria and Prussia to stand true to their engagements, or make them take the consequences—then he would say, "Go where glory leads you." (Loud laughter.) Let them enter upon that path upon which France had already entered— enter upon the course to which the first Napoleon was pledged, and the second Napoleon held himself responsible to proceed in, and to fulfil the intentions of his predecessor —and strike a blow at the heart of Russia, and not go wasting their shots in the Black Sea. At least let them do one act which will accomplish all objects, and at the same time be but tardy retributive justice—proclaim the re-establishment of the kingdom of Poland. (Cheers.) Such an act would do more to bring these continental despots to their senses than all our guns and taxes. Mr. I. BUTT denied that this was a religious war. It was a political conflict; but this was the first occasion on which any Minister had come down to the house and asked for a war supply, without clearly and distinctly stating the grounds on which he asked for it. According to the theory of our Constitution, as laid down by every political writer of eminence, it was the right of that house to ask for ex planation, and the duty of the Ministers to give it. He asked—are we at war with Russia, or what delays the de claration of war? By the law of nations such orders as had been given to Admiral Dundas, which went to using force, if necessary, against Russian vessels, could not be justified. If Turkey was to place herself unconditionally in the hands of England and France, and agree to any terms they might propose, this would be a dishonourable and degrading position for the Porte, and its independence would be as completely sacrificed as by yielding implicitly to the demands of Russia. Mr. S. HERBERT said that her Majesty's Government bad no cause to complain of the form which this debate had assumed. It was true the Government was placed between two fires. They were told by one party in the house that they had arrived tardily at the right place, but that they had taken the wrong road in doing so ; while an other • party told them that. thearAthak_ the. sight road at first, but that they had arrived at the wrong place. These two lines of argument had been maintained with extreme skill and ingenuity ; and, if the Government had anything to complain of on the part of hon. gentlemen who had urged those arguments, it was not that they had criticised the conduct of the Government unfairly,—at least, in terms,—but that they were unanimous in having declined to test the opinion of the house upon the force and merit of the arguments they had maintained. The noble lord the member for Colchester had said that it was all but the unanimous opinion of the house and the country that these negotiations had been mismanaged. Well, if that were the unanimous opinion of the House of Commons, why did not the noble lord ask the house to declare that opinion? (Hear, hear.) The Government, he repeated, were placed between two fires, and they could not get, between those two hostile camps, any means of obtaining what opinion the house itself really entertained upon the question. The tactics of the Opposition showed with what success blue-books might be used by judicious extracts be ing made from them. Having studied the policy of Russia towards Turkey, they were ready to pay homage to her superior diplomacy and to the skill of her proceedings iu these negotiations. It was said that the last thing which Russia sought or expected was the overthrow of Turkey by Russian arms, but that her wish was to weaken Turkey and finally betray her to her own destructiOn. (Hear, hear.) Now, as it was the wish of the house that the present debate should terminate that evening, he promised scarcely to make any refer ence to the blue-books, and he certainly would not read a single passage from them ; but he must say that the se lection of passages which had been made by hon. gentle men who censured the conduct of ministers displayedmore ingenuity than candour. He did not believe it possible to conduct lengthened negotiations concerning great interests that were in danger anti where a great number of parties were engaged in them as principals —he did not, he said, think it possible that in a book containing such a mass of papers, anti dealing with so many complicated questions, any man who chose to peruse it with the mind of a special pleader, prepared to force words from their plain meaning, could fail to find many detached sentences upon which he might fix his censure. As a specimen of this sort of criti cism, he might refer to what fell from the hon. member for Aylesbury, who complained of the mistranslation of the words beau role. But the hon. gentleman read the passage from the French despatch in whiehthat expression wasilused as if it was intended to apply to the conduct of the English Government in reference to the invasion of the principali ties. Not at all; it referred to previous transactions closed before the other question commenced ; it referred to reports which had been made by our ambassador at Constantinople respecting the conduct of France in regard to the Holy Places, and which dispute he did succeed in reconciling, and thereby brought into closer connection Russia, Turkey, and France, who up to that time had been the parties to the dispute. By that very success of Lord country ich wa h s ad en b a ee bl n ed th to e ocalostehaaiti alliance e as N i v o i n th thisFr whancekeystone of our policy ever since. We cer t a i n l y , as a Pro testant Stratford nation, had nothing to do with the disputes be tween two sets of monks at Jerusalem - we liad nothing to do with that dispute until it threatened the peace of Ea rope. He thought the French nation had committed a great diplomatic error in ever entering into that dis cussion originally, and that it showed great dignity in abondoning it, and in enabling Turkey to resist the usur pation which arose out of it on the part of Russia. It had, been stated that the whole mischief and all the difficulties in which they were now placed arose entirely from the ne glect of the English Government to use vigorous measures last autumn. He was almost afraid to attempt answering that charge, lest he should weaken the force of the very eloquent and argumentative speech of the hon member for Stroud (Mr. Horsman). In the first place, the Government did not wish to avoid discussion as to the details in which they were engaged. But hon. gentlemen opposite had this advantage. Tey came to facts—they were criticizing the past ; but the Government had no facts to deal with; they had only to speculate as to the future. And what was it gentlemen opposite proposed? They said that if, when the principalities were invaded , we had acte d with vigour, we should have had peace. Wh at was the s tate of England at that time ? We had no fleet in the Black Sea, nor any fleet in the Baltic) ; while Russia had a large fleet—he be lieved 28 sail of the line. Turkey also at that time had no army ; while the army of Russia was formidable, in num ber at least. Lord Stratford saw the da nger of entering into a war at that time. But what was the state of things at the present moment? Turkey had organized and trained and brought into the field an army of consider able power, and her aUiances were considerably more fa vourable now than then. They should recollect for how many years Russia had been acting in close connexion with Prussia, and allied to her by ties of blood ; and the relation between Russia and Austria was that of a bene factor and a grateful friend. It required time io consent to an alteration of such intimate relations between those two countries. But since that time the manly language and patriotic expressions of Prussia had shown that she knew how to estimate the proper position in which she should stand in Europe, while Austria now held a very different tone towards that Power, evidently showing that she now took a very different view of her own interests from what she did a year ago. He (Mt. S. Herbert) was not one of those who was inclined to ask the house to support the Go vernment upon the ground that they were entering into a slight and paltry struggle, an d when he heard it s t a t e d that Russia w as no t t o be feared, and that we need not conceal our plans, because she was not formidable—because no nation of slaves was ever formidable—he must say that that was a delusion which the history of very great con quests in past times tended todisprove. It was disproved by the Russian campaign in Italy, and also by her advance into the heart of Europe during the last war; and to say that she could not make great conquests was to forget the history of Eur Ope during the last century. It Was most impolitic for the mere purpose of depreciating the prowess of Russia, to undervalue her capabilities of aggression and to deny her such aggressive reputation, as her campaigns in 1773 and 1804, as far as Austria and Prussia were con cerned, and her conquests in respect of the Turkish pro vinces in former years, justify her in claiming. Again, it was by no means a tenable argument to adduce in favour of the weakness of Russia, to say that she was a nation of slaves, since all who knew anything about that country know that, whatever the condition of the people might be, the feeling predominant among them was one of intense nationalism, and that this feeling aloue made them. strong. One marked distinction between Russia and Turkey, and one great advantage in favour of the former country, was this, that in Turkey the Government was Asiatic and the people were European, while in Russia the Government was European and the people Asiatic: Where a country like Russia was subject entirely to the control of her ruler in order to estimate her strength or her weakness we must look to the character of the Prince who rules over her, and in the present crisis, therefore, we must, take into consideration the character and abilities of her Emperor, who, previously to the commencement of these present unhappy differences, was held in the estimation of the world as a Prince of no mean ability, and may even now be looked upon as holding, in the east of Europe, much the same position as the Pope would hold in the west if he were at the head of 500,000 men. (Hear, hear.) A great deal had been said, and much had been made of the progress and'civilization of Turkey, and it was very true that that country had made great progress during the last few years; but yet he could not in any way agree with the theory that a country like - Turkey under the influence of Mahomedanism could, under any circumstances, advance in civilization and improvement in the same ratio as a country under the influence of Christianity—(hear, hear) — and it ought to be understood, in reference to this branch of the question, that we were not inclined to bo embarked in this war, so much for the purpose of defending Turkey as of opposing Russia. (Cheers.) It was a fatal thing in a question like this to intermix the slightest particle of dictates of duty ; and to lead away the people of England, like the lower branches of the press in many instances had done, to think that we were influenced in favour of the Turk% and their cruelties and barbarism, instead of being urged on ag tinst Russia to resist her aggression—(hear, hear)—and he protested against it being said that we were not induced to take the part which we did in this matter for the purpose of keeping up the balance of the Powers of Europe and resisting the encroachment of Russia, but out of a romantic feeling for Turkey. (Cheers.) He had previously said that he considered it a fallacy to suppose that, because Russia was what was called a nation of slaves, that therefore, she was a weak nation ; but there was another fallacy, also, still more incorrect, and that was, to say that a nation of free men, like ourselves, could not unite for war or combine for national pur poses, and that we could not make any sacrifices for national advantages when such advantages were to be secured by a necessary war. This fallacy, he felt bound to say, the speeches delivered last year by the hon. member for the West Riding of Yorkshire, in his opinion, contri buted to diffuse ; inasmuch as whatever he said had a powerful influence upon Europe, as he was looked upon as the great and successful advocate of a great question, and the representative of the feeling of the largest class of the people of this country. (Loud cries of " No, no," and laughter, from the Opposition.) If not of the largest class, the hon. member was a representative, at any rate, of a great portion—(hear, hear)—of the working classes of this country, and as such, no doubt, his opinions were canvassed with great interest at St. Petersburg. (" Hear, hear," and a laug.) In spite of any such false impression, however, we should now have an opportunity of showing how for midable a nation of freemen could be, and how they would exert every nerve to carry to a successful termination what they thought it their duty to undertake. (Hear, hear.) He believed that if last year we had plunged this country into a war we should have been called to a heavy account for having precipitately hurried on such a crisis ; brit now, in his opinion, the people of England were im pressed with the conviction that Government had done the best that could be done to protect the interest and the rights and uphold the dignity and the honour of this country. (Loud cheers.) It had been said that "England's (Anger was Ireland's opportunity," and he thought that both were present now. (Hear, hear.) That the former would manfully and with success resist and surmount the danger he had no doubt ; and that the latter would profit by the opportunity there was ample proof, inasmuch as the people of Ireland were already, with national and charac teristic feelings and patriotism, coming forward to show upon this occasion, as they had done upon all others, how deep and sincere was their loyalty to their Sovereign in time of need, and unquestionable their bravery at all times. (Loud cheers.) It was a matter of sincere satisfaction to see the temper and unanimity with which all classes of persons seemed determined to act upon this subject ; and it was his firm belief that. the sword which we had been obliged to draw in defence of public right and justice we should, at any rate, sheath in honour. (Loud cheers.) Mr. DISRAELI—Sir, I have always thought that one of the causes of the prolongation of the last great Euro pean war was the ignorance of the people of this country as to the origin and object of that struggle. Even to this moment they are matters of controversy, whether the French republic, for example, was an aggressive power; or whether, on the contrary, if it had been left alone, it was not a power essentially pacific—whether the ambition of the first Emperor of France was an insatiable ambition ; or whether, on the contrary, at a particular period of his life a conservative policy was not the necessity of his course? Why we went to war, whether it was to put the Bourbons on the throne of France, or to reduce the limits of France, or to establish a constitutional government in France, are still subjects of controversy, though forty years have passed, in the pages of our most eminent writ ers and our most popular historians. Now, Sir, I have always felt that if ever this country were embarked again in a war, which might be a war of magnitude and of ge neral character, if I were in a position, however humble, which might in any way allow me to induce the people of this country to understand the cause and the object of the war in which they were engaged, I certainly would make the attempt. (Hear.) I have always been of opinion that every nation, and - this nation particularly, would be much more prepared and much more willing to make the exer tion and to endure the burdens which a state of warfare must induce and occasion, if they really knew why they were going to war, and for what they were going to war, than if they were hurried into a contest by inflammatory policy or their passions, and carried on by an excitement which at the first moment may be convenient to the mini ster, but which a few months after, followed by the ine vitable reaction of ignorance, and perhaps of ignorance and disaster combined, no one would so much suffer from as that person who is responsible for the administration of this country. (Hear, hear.) Sir, there is another instance which is peculiarly applicable to the present position of affairs, and I confess it has always very much in fluenced me. Five and twenty years ago there was a con siderable war, and that a war between the two powers which had now mutually declared war—Russia and Tur key. In that war the two great western powers, so often referred to of late, took part ; but they took part on tile side of Russia and not of Turkey. By their union with Russia there was a slaughter at Sinope on a scale to which the late event, which we so much lament, may be looked upon almost as a miniature performance. (Hear.) The present perplexed and the recent prostrate condition of Turkey was entirely ascribable to the events of that war, in which France and England were united against them. And I believe that certainly at that time there was not a n m piltbinnhre s e e; ynte b l oonefa e tfddon r hrodett o phhrt f oiheenwf t emi h estaoea i hrnt s u seroa h etgea ; ciaoo s ntonn e : islii w rie, its o h elecsob o vohl joeefoe r e karcusirt a untll l ydhge l ohi y tbsft ooe h it (atht)udhthetnneeadltan—t first importance—clearlyar syroa,,e i ( rss t ohst i t. tt e e:y,dw a aeniNrrh w diaet, hsay h oth as tnwh y evooobeae w fteerrpse e a)meill went to war on that occasion, and what was the object which t we intended to accomplish when we levelled a blow at the power of Turkey, which is indirectly the cause of the dangers, of the perils, and the perplexing circumstances which we are now considering. (Hear, hear.) Well,. sir, my part I cannot understand how I am to obt ' ain that knowledge—first, as to the cause of the war—but by stu dyingcwihouicshl gra ciously h ipn e l n s e t ga a a t a e t go papers, a l wa p y e h r iu s e , ph o w an h f i e c wh our hyteearabr years 0 parlia mentary, are now called " blue books." (A laugh.) I know no other source from which I can obtain any knowledge as to the cause of a war ; and I know not any means by which I can clearly arrive at what is the object of a war unless I first ascertain what is the cause of the war. I therefore sir, have listened with some dismay to the observations of those honourable gentlemen who have preceded me in the debate, who have more than once informed us that we have no business to consider the past—that we are merely to consider the actual position of the Government of the country—and that we are not to inquire by what means we have arrived at the position which we now occupy. I can not draw any coarse line of demarcation between the events that have recently occurred, and the events that are occur ing at this moment with respect to those transactions. I deny that you can distinguish at this moment the past from the future of those events.% What is occurring at this mo ment is occasioned by the words written in these very de- • spatches that are lying on our table. (Hear.) The policy that is there developed is preparing that future which you say is alone to absorb our attention, and is occasioning those very events which, even at this instant, may be giving a new colour to the future, which you say is alone to be the object of our study. I therefore shall protest against the doctrines of the First Lord of the Admiralty, that we are to support the Government or to censure the Government, and that there is no middle course for the House of Commons to follow when her Majesty has an nounced from the throne that in a moment of danger she appeals with confidence to our loyalty for her support— that the country may be on the eve of war, and that we, under these circumstances, are to offer no opinion, with all the responsibility that devolves upon us—no opinion upon those great public events, without being counted either the servile adherents of the Government, or those who have no object but to extract from the events of the mo ment the means of inconveniencing a ministry. (Hear.) I therefore feel it my duty to attempt to ascertain the cause and the object of the war before us. I don't think that that is a mere critical object. I don't think that that is a task which merely consists of makingobservationsupon the papers on the table. The right hon. gentleman who last addressed the house protested against the reading of isolated passages of these despatches. He says that it is unfair, and that it is a manoeuvre no minister can protect himself against. Well, Sir, I cannot promise the house that I will read the " blue books" entire. (Hear and laughter.) But I will promise the house that I will read very few extracts from these despatches, and far from taking isolated extracts I will read these only with one object—namely, to maintain a position which I wish to establish to the house, and which I am sure cannot be established by any manoeuvres in debate, or by having re course to garbled extracts or to isolated passages accom modated to the occasion. (Hear.) Sir , I wa nt first of all causelt o h a i t o(1 thoiofenrhouse this language, waar Russell)n to e c and the because supposeeF arcountryif(tietarhy athet night s l v h e esupall speech ee enotunderstand think ofi t virtuallythe isaffec tation noble the cause of this war, because after the speech of the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) on Friday night I think it is aftsc war. (Hear.) Since the noble lord sp oke we have had dan authoritative statement that our last effo rt at ne g otiation f b o e rtu f.o n r es th o e f i is s has the hhee failed. oo bajuescet o l off t th hi therefore ew sahra,sihlaanal acquire endeavour giutirise a nonlye x by to ascertain t obtaining idea d eaof whatwthhaathat i s s war. It will be then for the house to on this discussion of to-night, but in i he impendingthen naturally that udu t e house to decide whether the object is a worthy -object= I f whether it is an adequate object—and if it be an adequate dtt informationhhe e e countrydcoursedo will tntha ots asweydebates object, whether the means that the Government proposd are capable of accomplishing it. (Cheers.) Now, sir, I say, that it is the duty of the House of Commons so to consider the papers that are laid on the table. I say that it is for the advantage of the country that there should be clear ideas on these all important subjects, and that if we are to embark in a struggle which must without all doubt cripple the industry of the country, which must burden the people of the country, which must retard the progress which we hear so frequently vaunted in the house—that there should be as clear a conception as possible, not only in this house, but throughout the land, why we are going to war; and going to war, what we propose to accomplish by that last and desperate resource. (Hear.) Now, sir, the relations between Russia and Turkey have become of late years so familiar to honourable gentlemen that our duties in de bate are extremely facilitated by the knowledge which ex ists upon this subject. I remember, when I first entered Parliament, some sixteen or seventeen years ago, when this subject—the relations between. Russia and Turkey— was brought forward. The very subject itself was con sidered a project of some ingenious and eccentric mind. The designs of Russia were a frequent subject of a very small minority in this house. At that time the predomi nant opinion of the House of Commons and the country was, that there was no subject on which there was so much exaggeration as that which imputed a systematic de sign of territorial aggression to the Emperor of Russia. (Hear, hear.) Aftirwards, as the subject advanced, and by the progressive result i of frequent disenssione, but dis cussions always a t l ong intervals and in thin houses, theta grew up certainly an opinion adopted not by a majority but by a respectable minority in the house, that there was a systematic design on the part of Russia, among other great objects, not only of possessing India, not only of effecting other great objects, but of conquering and per manently possessing Constantinople; and so far as what was then called the Eastern question —so far as the rela tions between Russia and Turkey were concerned, it was always a question between those who believed that Russia had no political design and those who were fully convinced she had a direct and immediate purpose. to conquer the Ottoman Empire. (hear.) Well, sir, this question has gradually attracted the attention of the country—circum stances have developed it in the country—information has been obtained, and that which I believe is the truth has been adopted by many who are entitled to the character and reputation of statesmen, namely, that Russia has no intention whatever of forcibly conquering the Otto man Empire, but that by an adroit policy and by indirect means she intended to obtain and exercise such an influence over the population of the Turkish Empire, who are subjects of the Sultan--Christian subjects of the Sultan—that she would obtain all that authority which would have been the result of her possessing perhaps the seat of the Sultan; and that, I believe, has Ise9for some years the received opinion of those who are well-informed and capable of forming a correct and moderate opinion upon this important subject. (Hear, hear.) Sir, I apprehend that has been the opinion which has been adopted by those who have held responsible positions in this country of late years. I apprehend that that is the meaning which we must ascribe to the frequent expressions of the Secretary of State in the papers on the table, which refer to the de clarations—personal declarations of the Emperor—and which I need not remind the house never appear in the printed documents in our hands. (Hear, hear.) I appre hend that they have received from her Majesty's ambassa dors, or from other sources, such distinct declarations on the part of the Emperor of Russia on this subject, namely, that he did not contemplate, under any circumstances, an invasion of the territorial integrity of Turkey; that her Majesty's Government—the present Government like pre ceding Governments—have rested with confidence upon that declaration. (Hear.) Sr, I don't think—if I may for a moment, and I think I am bound to do so—if I may for a moment read a passage from the despatches—l do not know that the policy of Russia—and it is most important that we should have a clear idea what the avowed policy of Russia is before we come to any final conclusion upon our own conduct—l do not know that the policy of Russie is expressed in more accurate language than in a despatch of Count Nesselrode at the beginning of January, 1853. It is familiar to the house, and if I read it, it is because the passage is but short, and in offering a statement to the house it is of great importance with respect to these decla rations that the very language of the writer should be in the ear'of the house at the moment that their opinion is asked upon the topic. Count Nesselrode. on the 14th of January, 1853, says, speaking of his court:—" We have always desired the maintenance of the Ottoman Empire, as being, take it all in all, the least mischievous arrangement for all European interests, which would not fail to come into collision in the East , if the gap existed." He proceeds to say :—" We will accordingly use our utmost efforts to avoid to the last, so far as depends upon us, without prejudice to Our honour, whatever may be calculated still further to shake this body, at once so feeble and so tottering, at the risk of fall ing into powder." He says, in another despatch—familiar, I have no doubt, to every gentleman, and, therefore, I will only briefly allude to it, but it is right, it is fair, in order that we may come to an unimpassioned opinion upon this all-important subject—it is right that we should see that the case should be fairly stated for Russia as well as for all—Count Nesselrode again says :—" There exists a community of interest between fifty millions of the Rus sian population and twelve millions of the orthodox which constitute the majority of the Sultan's subjects." And he tells you in another despatch, so late as June, 1853, that this claim of patronage over these twelve million sub jects of this foreign power the Emperor will defend to the last extremity as an assertion of his inheritance. Now, sir, I say, that at the outset of these negotiation the policy of Russia is distinctly and explicitly expressed. Ascen dancy should be obtained over the Turkish empire, and that ascendancy to be obtained, not by territorial conquest, bat by exercising a peculiar influence over twelve millions, the large majority of the Sultan's subjects. There is a purpose distinctly expressed and a policy defined in de spatches which are addressed to her Majesty's Government. Now it is not merely that the object is defined, but we are no less candidly informed of the mode by which it is to be attained. This influence is to be exercised over 12 millions of the Sultan's subjects, not by conquest, which Russia disclaims and always disclaimed, but by the stipulations of treaties, by maintaining the treaties that exist, and by ex tending the spirit of those treaties. All this you see from he very beginning of this important controversy. What I may call the base of the diplomatic campaign was a treaty, and that was the treaty which has been quoted half a dozen times in this discussion, namely, the treaty of Kainardji. Now, I will not presume to read the treaty of Kainardji to the house, but I think the house will agree that it is very expedient, when a particular treaty is the foundation of transactions of this vast im portance, that we should have a clear idea of that treaty. We have had great references made to the treaty of Kain ardji, and I think I can, without troubling the house, in a moment place before it the essence and the peculiar cha racter of that treaty. In article 7 of the treaty of Kain ardji there is this clause :—" The Porte promises to pro tect the Christian religion ;and the minister of Russiato be allowed to make representations"—now mark for what— "to make representations in favour of the new church of which mention is made in article 14 of this treaty." Now article 14 of the treaty of Kainardji, the only other article to which I need refer, is of this character :—The Court of Russia is permitted, besides the chapel built in the mini titer's house, to build in the quarter of Galata, in the street called Bey Uglu, a public church of the Greek rite, which shall be under the protection of the Russian minister, and free from all vexation and exaction. Now, observe what is the treaty of Kainardji. The Christian subjects of the Porte are, by that treaty, placed under the special protec tion of the Sultan ; and Russia, interpreting that treaty, states that the Christian subjects of the Sultan are placed specially under the protection of Russia. Under the treaty of Kainardji representations may be made in favour of their new church ; but so cautious is the Porte, that the very street in which the new church is, is mentioned ; it is the church in the street of Bey Uglu ; and the Russian inter pretation of that article of the treaty is, that because the Porte consents that the minister of Russia shall interfere in favour of a particular new church building in a particu lar street, she has the power of interfering in favour of every church of that denomination in the country, and of every community of the Christian faith in the Sultan's dominions, which happen to be the large majority of his subjects. Now, that is the treaty of Kainardji, and these are the claims which are made upon that treaty. I must for a moment call the atten tion of the house to an extract from a despatch, dated January 8, 1853. It is from Sir Hamilton Seymour ; and, as it has already been referred to in debate, and is familiar to every gentleman, I shall state it very briefly. In that despatch Sir Hamilton Seymour informs the noble lord the present leader of the house (Lord John Russell) that Count Nesselrode treated as exaggerated the apprehensions likely to arise in Turkey and elsewhere from the appearance of a Russian army on the Tin k-ish frontier. It was necessary that the diplomacy of Russia should be supported by a demonstration of force ; that a corresponding concession should be made to the Greek Church for any new conces sion made to the Latin one. Count Nesselrode expressed his belief that this alarming question would be satisfac torily concluded. On what did he rest his belief ! Now I beg the house to mark this. He rested his belief in a satis factory solution of this question on the exertions of her Majesty's Government at Paris and Constantinople to ad vocate the rights which the Russian Government were en titled to claim, and discountenance the pretensions of the French. Now I beg the house to observe how clear and transparent is the policy of Russia. Here is a great de monstration of force ; but what is it to do? It is to sup port the diplomatic movement. What is that movement ? It is a movement to increase the influence of Russia over the population of Turkey who profess the Greek religion. And how is it to be affected—how is it to be peaceably affected, that is the point ? Not by a demonstration of force, but by the friendly exertions of her Majesty's Minis ters at Paris and at Constantinople. (Hear, hear.) Now, you see then, we have at once a distinct declaration by Russia of her 'policy. We have a distinct declaration that her demonstration of force is only - a demonstration, but that her object is to be attained—peaceably attained—by tee exertions of the English Ministers at Paris and at Con stantinople. You know the power with whom you have to deal. You have the policy of that power perfectly defined. You have the object avowed, which is ascendancy . over Turkey. You have the methods described, which are infiil ences over the Greek Christian population, and these may effected say, which, by Russian diplomacy—a diplomacy , of lo without using the epithets which the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London (Lord J. Russelhlliouhsesl with will nroet gard to foreign ministers — a dipl omac y call fraudulent, but which i s a diplomacy . w with certainly, dto which a man, if placed in contact with it, would if he were a prudent man, be upon his guard. (A. laugh.) Now, sir, I want to know, with this object expressed, these means detailed, and this diplomacy to deal with, I want to know how her Maje st y 's Ministers encountered such a combination, and how can I obtain that information but by studying the on the table ? I think I sh a ll b e able to show the - p h a ou e s r e s that it is impossible for us to o bt a i n that which is at this moment the moat valuable informa tion for the House of Commons and the people of England — name ly, the object of the present war—unless we preli minary ascertain, and I hope I shall be able to do that with extreme brevity, what has been the cause of the war. It is therefore not to criticise the past - or what is I think erroneously called the past—it is not to cavil with expres sions, it is not to garble despatches, it is not by quotations here and misquotations there, to make a colourable case of mismanagement against the Ministry, at a moment of na tional emergency like the present, that I am led to quota tion, but because I want the house clearly to understand how we have been brought into this position, why we are at war, or in danger of being immediately at war, because that is the only mode by which the house and the country can ascertain what is the object of this actual, of this me naced state of warfare. (Cheers.) Now, sir, it is unne cessary for me to touch upon the question, now exhausted in debate, of the holy places. It was, in fact, virtually soon settled at Constantinople. Even Count Nessel rode, at a very early period in these despatches, expresses his surpri se , b u t hi s satisfaction at, an d hi s acknowledg ment of, the conciliatory spirit of the French. Nor would I dwell upon this for a moment, had not the noble lord (Lord John Russell) reminded me that I once was a .minister of state, for he said it was the Government of Lord Derby that was really responsible for this question. Now, sir, whatever may have been the faults of the Go vernment of Lord Derby, they need not look back with afty regret or remorse to their relations with these affairs. (Hear, hear.) The question of the holy places was not formally settled when we left office, but certainly it was the strenuous and confidential exertions of Lord 14Ialmes bury that brought the French Government to the right tone of viewing the conduct of M. Lavalette ; and I be. lieve that had it not been for the preliminary stepS which he took, the withdrawal by France of that envoy from. Constantinople —I think under the circumstances a mag nanimous act—would never have taken place. But on the question of the holy places, Count Nesselrode tells you at au early period that he views with satisfaction, and even with surprise, the conciliatory character of the con duct of France. Colonel Rose tells you at an early date, in despatches familar to every gentleman, that he had con versed with the French ambassador at Constantinople, and so far as France is concerned there never would be any further discussion or difficulty on the subject. But all this time the forces of Russia are accumulating on the frontier. All this time Count Nesselrod e is telling you that his Go vernment will seek an equivalent for the privileges which the Greek Church has lost at Jerusalem, the settlement of which his Government has resolved not to disturb. Even the mission of Prince Menschikoff is at this timeoeumnetnNtieosnseed.i. What does Sir Hamilton Seymour say ? vagueness in rode observed that there was necessarily some " Prince Menschikoff 's orders, as it was hardly ascertained to what extent the rights secured last year to the Greeks had been infringed ; that as it is not meant to regain from the Latins the privileges they have subsequently ac quired, the object to be sought was an equivalent to the Greeks." Observe that, after that, we hear that the Em peror would insist on the promise made to him in favour of the Greek Church being fulfilled. On a subsequent oc casion, in an important despatch from Count Nesselrode to Baron Brunow, we hear that this was to obtain for the Greeks some recompence for the wrong which has been done them, and, above all, to secure them from furthe r in jury. Now, sir, I was very much surmised by the ob servation made by the noble lord (Lord John Russell) on this subject the other night. The noble lord feels very deeply—l speak with the leave of the house—he feels very deeply on this subject of the conduct of Russia. It is not merely that he is—l will not say overwhelmed, hut—over come by the responsibility, and it is an awful responsi bility, of a minister who has advised his Sovereign to go tq war ; but the noble lord feels so acutely the conduct of Russia, that on more than one occasion in his speech, and in those discussions, he has indulged in the language of in vective, both towards the minister and his master. (Hear, hear.) We were told the other night that the conduct of Count Nesselrode was fraudulent. That is a very strong expression. (Cheers.) It is easy to cheer, but Count Nesselrode has for nearly fifty years sustained a great posi tion, and is supposed to be one who has administered affairs with gteat moderation, with great wisdom, and under circumstances of great difficulty, no doubt, with great success ; but his conduct is described as fraudulent. (Hear, hear.) The conduct of tlfe Emperor, we were told the other night, was the conduct of a butcher—at least, he had given orders for an act of butchery. Now, mark this— I do not mention it without an object. At present we have to deal with Count Nesselrode. His conduct, the noble lord told us the other night, is fraudulent. (Hear, hear.) " Nothing could be more unsatisfactory than the conduct of Count Nesselrode. He kept saying that his imperial master would seek an equivalent for the Greek Church. He was constantly repeating that his imperial master was determined to have coins equivalent, or that some arrangement should be made compensatory to the Greek Church for the privi leges which it had relinquished. But Count Nesselrode never told us what he wanted." Wicked Count Nesselrode ! Infinite duplicity of the Russian statesman ! Bnt does not it occur to the house, though it might not have oc curred to the noble lord, that if he wanted to know exactly and precisely what Count Nesselrode meant, that he should nut have waited for Count Nesselrode to tell him, hut that he should have asked the question of Count Nee-. selrode ? The first great complaint made by the noble lord of the conduct of Count Nesselrode, which in the end is denounced as fraudulent, is that he perpetually went on harping on the determination of the Emperor of Russia to obtain some compensation for the Greek Church for the privileges it had lost; but he never told her Ma jesty's Government what he meant by what he said. But why is Sir IL Seymour at St. Petersburg if he is not to ask for that information ? Why are there envoys at the capi tal of Russia ?—why are there secretaries of state ?—why are there protracted, and distracted, councils in Downing street—(laughter)—if the upshot of all these individuals, all these ambassadors, all these ministers, all these delibe rations is, that the noble lord is to come to the house with the country iu a state of war, that war having been occa sioned apparently by the intentions of the Emperor of Rus sia, and the great complaint of the noble lord being that the Emperor of Russia never told them what he wanted, the noble lord confessing, by that very observation, that he never asked the Emperor of Russia the question ? Here is the gist of the matter. At this stage of the proceedings we ought to have said to Russia—" The affair of the rival churches is settled, in which we never properly interfered —why is there still this demonstration of force on the frontier. You say you want an equivalent for the Greek Church for the privilege you have lost. Define what you want precisely and explicitly. If you continue to make demonstrations when the object for which they were ori ginally made has already been settled ; if you go on an nouncing that you require equivalents and compensations, and do not define what you mean by a compensation, then we tell you that you cannot count on , what you have de clared to be your great means of assistance for the peace able conclusion and attainment of your object, viz., the friendly offices of her Majesty's Government at Paris and at Constantinople. Now, I ask the house, was that ever said ? Was it over said ? I can only say it does not appear upon the papers which are upon the table. It never ap pears upon those papers that any formal or precise demand was made upon the Russian Government of what they meant by equivalents and compensations. Those who speak after me will have an easy opportunity of confuting what, I say, if they can refer to the documents and find wkat un fortunately lam not able. But Ido not wish to press the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) unfairly upon this point. I admit that the noble lord individually, not considering him as a member of the Government, is almost free from ob jection in this point, because the noble lord in the brief time during which he occupied office, made, I think, such inquiry as he well could as to the assembling of troops upon the frontiers, and other subjects of great importance. But at the time when the subject ought to have been pressed to the inquiry to which I refer, the noble lord re linquished the seals of office, and another personage be came Secretary of State, and I am bound to say—and I shall say nothing which I shall not at least attempt to prove—l am bound to say that from that moment there is a different character in the diplomatic proceedings. (Oppo sition cheers.) It seems acknowledged by Sir Hamilton Seymour, in one of his despatches, that he is surprised at the change in the tone of Count Nesselrode—and I should say that it is evident that that new character may be fairly described as a bias in favour of Russia. I of course refer to the accession of Lord Clarendon to office. Lord Clarendon is Secretary of State, mind you, and the moment he is made Secretary of State, by a cu rious coincidence he is called upon to perform the most important act that a Secretary of State under the circum stances could have to fulfil. For her Majesty's ambassador was about to repair to the very scene of these important transactions, and Lord Clarendon had to draw up the in structions of Lord Stratford. Sir, I have been rather sur prised that in the course of these discussions a more minute reference has not been made to that which really is the most important state paper on the table. The only person who has made use of it is the hon. member for the West Riding to-night, who has quoted a passage from this despatch, and for what purpose ? To show that Lord Clarendon at that moment, as proved by his instructions to Lord Stratford, was totally ignorant of the resources of the Turkish empire and the Turkish people. (Hear, hear.) That was the argument of the hon. gentleman. It suited the conclusion that he was endeavouring to impress upon the house. His point is, that .the Turks are exhausted, that they are incapable of any effort—that we are inter fering for a miserable minority of a people —that they are a race who can achieve nothing ; and he says—" I prove my case by the best evidence, and it is that of the Secre tary of State." Now I shall quote the language of the Secretary of State for a very opposite purpose to that which the hon. member for the West Riding had in view. My answer to the hou. member for the West Riding—so tar as the authorify of Lord Clarendon for his point goes— is the passage of the Danube by Omer Pacha, the battle of Oltenitza, and others which followed—the gallant conduct of the Turkish people—(hear)—but let that pass. lam to examine the conduct of a ministry whose policy is to support the independence and the integrity of the Porte—who for this great object have not hesitated to involve this country iu war, and who are not justified in their course unless they have confidence in the resources of the country, in the character of the people ; and unless they believed that the integrity and independence of Turkey were not mere phrases, but palpable and real facts. (Hear, hear. But, remember that you bad had the armies of Russia col lecting on the frontier of Turkey—you had had warnings of these warlike preparations from the Russian Minister. You had had the avowal from Count Nesselrode, that the object of the mission of Prince Menschikoff was a vague mission, but that, however vague might be his instructions, there was one result that he was to secure, namely, a great concession to the Greek Church—an equivalent, a compen sation. Yon had all these—you knew that the integrity and independence of the Porte was at stake—the Secretary of State was called upon to fulfil the most important func tion of a Minister under such circumstances, viz., to draw airing to the seat of action. Now , w up instructions for the Queen's ambassado t r, was a w re ho these structions? in re pha I am sure the house will agree with me that if we are to discuss this question we should endeavour to yr th at memory. reason w re h a a d t a a d r e e sp t a b t e c sa h discuss I d o not f a t i r i l u y s , t to and for instructions of the Secretary of State of a Ministry who uphold the integrity and the independence of th e P orte, and who, to maintain that independence and that integrity, are "ing to war ? —Lord Stratford de Redcliffe is instructed to tell the Porte, "with all frankness and without reserve," that "it is now in a position of peculiar da nger ." (A laugh). He is to insist upon "the accumulated grievances of foreign nations, which the Porte is unable or unwilling to redress,' and "upon the increasing weakness of its executive defend elts is a tdo as tu receive the our dev dictation eiop me ut oafs its t o power." The Government whose independence we profess to commercialandriemsopurcrovees-: —" reforms perseverance" it is told, "in its present course must end in alienating the sympathies of the British nation, and in making it impossible for her Majesty's Government to shelter it from the impending danger to which the Sultan and his ministers have exposed it." The " exigencies of Christendom" are then ascribed to—what ? To the ambi tion of Russia. Was that the cause of the exigencies of Christendom and of the perilous position of Turkey which are pointed out in the instructions of the Secretary of State ? No • the cause which Lord Clarendon assigns is, not the ambition of Russia, but "the unwise policy and reckless mid-administration of the Sultan himself." Now I ask the house, is this the way to maintain the indepen dence of a power menaced by the warlike legions of Rus sia ? Was it at this moment of its utmost need, of its utmost exigency—was this the moment to lecture Turkey about internal reforms and commercial reforms. (Oppo sition cheers.) And when these admonitions are coupled with a significant intimation that at this moment the con duct of the Porte must be distinguished by the utmost moderation and prudence— what is that but to say—what is that but to hint, that the Porte should comply with the demands of Russia? Demands of course (I will make this concession to the Ministry)—demands of course consistent with the independence of the Porte ; but the word inde pendence is to be interpreted is obvious from the insolent character of our friendly dictation. (Hear , hea r. Now, s sir, here we are. We have come to this point. )W book eek even months are passing. You may examine a blue tail allusion to a member on the Ministerial bench so a ,ug r.) en gaged], but You will not change the fact s. (L hte of Russia Weeks, and mouths are passing—still the ar i mie r s of Russia are collected on the frontier--still the Minister tells you there is one thing that his mas ter ation to hav e as ter will never change about, and that is, in his determine Church f or an equivalent—a compensation to the te w the privilege which it has lost, and means by which a security for these new rights shall be obtained. Still • 'mon announced, with instruc you have that important mission ofev idence that the slightesttittle tions—and we have not that her Maj esty's Government m Russia an explicit declarationshe ever demand e d f ro of what meant. (R ear M cn schikoff arrived at * ° hear.) Well, Prince but will very lista- or slightly glance at nople —I hurry over , ciroutustances whi ch f a miliar to every gentl emen i n are so +l.~--. 7 4.} 1k 21i I 42A 291