The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 8. The LORD CUANCELLOR took his seat on the Woolsack at Ave o'clock. LUNACY COMMISSION BILL. Lord WYNFORD said as he had some objections to the principle of the Bill introduced by the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, be hoped that that Noble and Learned Lord would not press the second reading of it to-night, in the absence of a Noble and Learned Friend of his. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that the discus sion upon the Bill might be taken upon another stage ; this bill had already passed through that House three times, and was introduced with the sanction of that Noble and Learned Earl ; in fact, the measure was the Noble and Learned Earl's, and not his (the Lord Chancellor's). It had been uniformly stopped in the other House, in con sequence of being sent down there late in the Session, and from the multiplicity of business which was coming before that House, as appeared by the notice., already given, un less the Bill was sent down almost immediately, it was again likely to share the same fate. After a short discussion between the two Noble and Learned Lords, the Bill was read a second time, and or dered to be committed on Tuesday next. Lord TEYNHAM moved that a message be sent to the Cbmmons, requesting a copy of the evidence given before the Committee on the Cotton Factories Bill.—Ordered. Toe NOBLE Loan then said he had a question to ask of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, who had moved the appointment of a Commission to inquire into the poor laws. He wished to know whether those Commissioners had made any report, and whether it would soon be laid before their Lordships? The LORD CHANCELLOR said the Poor Law Corn miss:on was issued as a measure of the Government ; he at first was opposed to the issuing of that Commission, so that the House would see bow far the Noble Lord was right in calling it his com mission, and, in fact, the House was never moved upon the subject.—(Hear.) These Commissioners had collected a gre►t mass of most useful information, which would soon be rendered into the shape of a report, and he had no doubt his Majesty would be advised to lay it on the table of the House on an early day. The House then adjourned till Monday at ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY 8. The SPEAKER took the Chair at four o'clock, and called upon the Members that waited to be sworn to come to the table. A number then presented themselves, and amongst them was Mr. Pease, the Member for South Durham, who is a ',Member of the Society of Friends. The SPEAKER then rose and said—l am informed by the Clerk, that there is a Member at the table who objects to take the usual oaths. I beg to know whether it is so or not. Mr. PEASE-1 beg to be allowed to make an affi oration to the same effect. Mr. SPEAKER—I am merely discharging toy duty when I refu..e to allow such affirmatio❑ to he made with out the sanction of the House. Not only are the privi leges of the House concerned, and a question of law in volved, but even the personal interests of the Hon. Gen tleman are deeply at stake, unless the House should itself put a different construction upo❑ the words of the Act than is at present the received one. The case will be taken up by the House, and I have no doubt it will con strue the law most liberally ; in the mean time I am sure the Hon. Gentleman will excuse me for requesting him to retire until the House decides upon the question. Mr. PEASE then bowed and retired. The other Mem bers were the❑ sworn. Lord ALTHORP said he wished to address the House, in consequence of a❑ Hon. Member having declined to take the Oatit, on the ground that he was a member o the society called Quakers, and he claimed the privilege by a certain Act of Parliament of rmiking a solemn affirma tion instead of taking the oath. He (Lord Althorp) there fore felt that it was necessary to call the immediate atten tion of the House to the subject. It appeared to him that the best mode of inquiry was by the appointment of a Select Committee, not for the purpose of giving any opinion, because it was necessary that no opinion should be given but by the House itself, but for the purpose of reporting to the House all precedents on their Joutnals, and whether any, and what Acts, or parts of Acts of P,irliament, there were authorizing the p,ople calltd Quakers to make an affirmation instead of taking oaths. Precedents could be easily referred to; and as to the law it might be said that that was in the cogni zance of every Member of the House ; it could not, how ever, be expected that every gentleman hid had time to look through all the statutes upon this subject, one of which was so entitled that very few would look in it for such an object, as it was called, " An Act to prevent the undue exaction of Tolls or Fees on the River Thames, and to prevent the spreading of Disease among Horned Cattle. " (Laughter.) The object of the Committee would be to pre sent, in a concentrated form, the whole of the precedents and the law as applicable to the case, and then it would be in the power of the House to decide what course they should take. He (Lord Althorp) would not go into the question, nor would he wish to raise any debate, until the Com mittee had presented their report. The Noble Lord then moved—" That a Select Committee be appointed to search the Journals of the House, and to report to the House such precedents and Acts, or parts of Acts of Parliament, as related to the right of the people called Quakers, to take their seats in Parliament, and to the privilege conferred on them of making a solemn affirmation in Courts of Justice and other places, where, by law, oaths were au • thorized and required to be taken." Mr. WARBIi lITON was of opinion that the mction was not comprehensive enough, for it was highly important to li4ow what construction was put upon the subject in Courts of Law, and he requested that the motion should include reports of all cases that had been decided relating to it. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL acquiesced in that sug gestion, for one case of a somewhat similar nature had peen decided by Lord Coke, and another by Lord Mansfield. Mr. BARING thought it best to ascertain what the law was on the present occasion, but it would also be con venient to know to what part of the oath the Hon. Gen tleman himself objected, for at present the House did not know whether the Quakers objected to all et any part of the oath. pr. LUSHINGTON understood that when the Hon. Kies; i t, offered himself at the table, he objected to take any oath—(Hear) —but he distinctly stated that be was desirous of making an affirmation of the whole. He did pgs at all object to the words in it, but only to the form pf swearing.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. KING regretted that any delay should take place in admitting the Hon. Member. He trusted the day was not far distant, when an individual returned by upwards of 2,000 electors, would be permitted to ift;er that House without any difficulty.—(Hear, hear.) In lia opinion the taking of oaths was inefficient and in iurious.,—(Cheers.) It was not his intention now to pcupy the time of the House on the subject, but he Ste:Jed as little delay as possible would take place, before the electors of South Durham knew whether the person w;:om they bad elected to record their opinions in that House would be excluded. The motion was put by the SPEAKER and agreed to. A Seleet Committee was then appointed, consisting of Lord Altherp, the Attorney and Solleitcr-General, Mr. Abercrombie, Sir Jamea Scarlett, Sir Robert Peel, Mr. Wynne, Mr. Bonham Calvert, Mr. Warburton, and seve ral other gentlemen. Lord MORPETII presented a petition from Denbigh, praying for the abolition of negro slavery. Lord ASHLEY had no objection whatever to the course which the Noble Lord had intimated with respect to his intentions in bringing forward the Bill on the sub ject in question. He felt it his duty, however, to state, that he bad determined on reviving Mr. Sadler's Bill, not to throw any imputation either upon classes or indi viduals of the master manufacturers, but only to call upon the Legis'ature, on the evidence before the House, to protect these individuals—the children—who laboured in the factories, and who could not protect themselves. Mr. STRICKLAND had been instructed to support the petition presented by the Noble Lord for the abo lition of Negro Slavery, and considered the number of the signature s appended, and the respectability of the petitioners, as decisive evidence of the strong feel ing that existed in the country in favour of the immediate emancipation of that much-injured class of our fellow-subjects. As to the Bill about to be intro duced by the Noble Lord, the Member for Yorkshire, he felt himself called upon to say, having been a Member of the Committee appointed to investigate the subject last session, that he hoped, however difficult the subject was for the Legislature, the matter would be speedily and satisfactorily settled by the forthcoming measure. Mr. DOUGLAS insisted that by whomsoever the Bill should be received, Mr. Sadler was enti tled to the gratitude and thanks of the country and of that House, for having brought forward a measure upon that subject, for the relief and protection of the infants employed in British factories. If any of the Honourable Members had not yet made up their minds upon the subject, he hoped they would read the evidence taken before the Committee of last Session, and he pledged himself he would be prepared to support some measure for granting the relief which the emergency of the case required. Mr. O ' CONNELL and Sir J. HOBHOUSE concurred in the sentiments of the Hon. Member who had just spoken, and expressed a hope that this measure would effectually and finally grant that protection to the children labouring in factories, which was so desirable, and se loudly called for. Mr. JOHNSTONE said that the public had not heard the evidence of both sides ; for, if a proper opportunity had been given them, be knew manufacturers who would have been enabled to give evidence which would have satisfied the community that the state of some mills, at least, was not so had as the whole bad been represented. A❑ HON. MEMBER supported the prayer of the petition, and said that the btre fact of children being obliged to work ten hours a day was sufficient to justify the Le gislature in throwing its protection around those who thus showed that they were not able to protect themselves. Lord Viscount MORPETH begged to disclaim any idea of imputing presumption to the Noble Lord, the Member for Dorsetshire, in having promised to bring forward a 13,11 on this subject, although unconnected with a manu facturing district. He trusted that a measure would this session be passed which would grant the greatest possible protection to children, with the least possible injury to trade. Mr. T. ATTWOOD postponed his intended motion relative to the distresses of the working classes, front the 113th February to the sth March. Mr. RICHARDS presented a petition from Knares borough, in furtherance of the better observance of the Sab bath Day, and expressed a hope that whatever enactment might be passed upon the subject, would be made to reach the rich, as well as the poor. An Hon. GENTLEMAN seconded the prayer of the pe tition, and concurred in the hope expressed in the prayer of his Hon. Colleague (Mr. Richards). Sir A. AGNEW begged to ask, whether the peti tioners complained of any particular local grievance. Mr. RICHARDS said that they did not. The peti tion originated simply in that earnest desire the peti tioners must share with the rest of the community to wit ness such an observance of the Sabbath as would without presumption entitle them to expect the Divine blessing upon the people of these realtns.—(Hear.) Admiral ADAM presented a similar petition from the minister, elders, and congregation of Tillicoutry, in the county of Clackmannan. Sir THOMAS TROWBRIDGE gave notice that on the 9th of March be would move fur a Select Committee to inquire into the state of the laws and regulations respecting pilotage, with a view to alter and amend the same. Mr. FINN (we believe) presented a petition from Over ton, in Leicestershire, for the better observance of the Lord's Day. Sir ANDREW AGNEW supported the prayer of the petition, and expressed a hope that a Committee, similar to that of last session, would be appointed to inquire into the subject. On the motion of Mr. LITTLETON, several of the usual sessional orders respecting the appointment of Committees upon private Bills were agreed to. Petitions were presented complaining of undue returns for the Boroughs of Weymouth, Bedford, and Hereford. The first was ordered to be taken into consideration on Thursday fortnight, the second on Tuesday the sth of March, and the last on Thursday the 7th of March. Mr. HUME moved for returns showing the particulars of the charge, in the Army Estimates of 1832, of 33,6721. for the garrisons of Great Britain and Ire land, distinguishing the names and the military rank of all persons who are in the receipt of more than 50/. a•year, together with an account of all the allow ances connected therewith, the value and salaries of the offices the parties may hold, and the amount of their pay or half-pay. The Honourable Member then gave notice that, on the 15th inst., he would call the at- tention of the House to the state of the public accounts, and to the payments out of the Exchequer for the present year. Mr. DIXON gave notice that he would move for a return of the charitable funds in such municipality through out England and Wales : the manner in which they had been applied, and the mode in which they were now dis tributed. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know whether the Hon. Member would have any objection to extend the notice to Ireland also. Mr. DIXON would have no objection, provided it were not contrary to the rules of the House. After a few words from one or two Members on a point of farm, it was agreed that the notice of motion should stand as originally given. Mr. O'CONNELL then gave notice of a similar mo tion with respect to the charities in Ireland. THE ADDRESS. Mr. RUTH YEN—Sir, in resuming this debate, I can assure the House that it is not my intention to trouble it at such length as perhaps some of its Members m iy ex • pect. I do, however, feel that it is a duty I owe to those by whom I am sent here to express my sentiments upon the subject of his INesty's speech.—(Hear, hear.) Agreeing with the Hon. Member for Dublin in what he has said, and in all the sentiments he has expressed, I shall not take up time by dilating at length upon them, but refer more particularly to what has been offered to our consideration by the other side of the House. Sir, we have been charged with having brought forward a question which, in point of fact, is an attack upon his Majesty's Ministers, but I will say we have been unjustly charged in that respect, and if you reverse the question you have then the plain and simple fact. The King's speech conveys feelings towards Ireland which no Irishman, who entertains the same feelings towards Ireland that I do, can hear without dissatisfaction.—(Loud cheers.) I do not attempt to throw any imputa tion on the gentleme❑ from my own country, who differ from me in opinion—they do so honestly I have no doubt, but I am sure with prejudiced minds.—(Hear, bear.) On that ground they 'nay be excused ; but his Majesty's Ministers have no such excuse. They know but little of Ireland.—(Hear.) They ought to know more ; but they will not take those means by which they might obtain accurate information. Is it through policemen ? Is it through placemen ?—ls it through the creatures of Government who live in subordinate places —or, what is worse, i❑ the expectation of places ? Is it to be expected that through such polluted sources Englishmen will ever have that plain and unvarnished character of Ireland, which ought to be had by all impartial minds ?—(Hear.) In former days it was the fashion to bring down to the House a speech which was supposed to be the speech of the King, but which was literally the speech of his Ministers, arid accompanying that speech was an address written by the very men who had concocted the speech. That fashion, lam sorry to say, is still kept up. Is such a course, 1 would ask, to be endured ? Are the Members of this House bound to return an answer to such a speech —a speech made by persons to forward their own political views ? Such a course, I trust, will end in this Parliament, by its determination not to vote any address except in reference to a speech which came from the King himself. I airs sorry, Sir, to see paragraphs in that speech which I can characterise in no other manner but as a prelude to civil war in Ireland ; and I was sorry to see a Nob!ernan dressed in military costume, supporting, by all the means in his power, the 'sentiments contained in that speech. I also felt hurt, Sir, at the observations made by the Noble Earl who moved the address, with reference to the Hun. Member for Dublin. The Noble Lord's calling him a bird of prey was most uncalled for and ill timed. Such words ought not to have been used, as such observations were calculated to produce recrimination. The Noble Earl also denounced the Members for Ireland, as having projects for the dismem berment of Ireland. What, I would ask, bas justified any person in making such an assertion, if every per son who has stood forward in the cause of Ireland has expressed the strongest wish for the preservation of the connection between the two countries.—(Hrar.) Sir, I repeat it is unjust, and I would reprobate it in the strongest language which Parliamentary usage will jus. tify. But the " war to the death" argument is not, I think, one which should be used, to men, and far less to Irishmen. There are men in that country, Sir, who have its cause dear at heart, and would show, if an enemy invaded her shores, the counterpart of that ar gument in the Spanish proverb, and would give them " war to the life." All that his Majesty's Government has done in that country has aggravated rather than alleviated or removed the grievances under which this unhappy coun try has so long laboured. Even their Tithe Bill of last Session has given general dissatisfaction in every part of the country. What has brought the Protestant establishment in Ireland into contempt ? The conduct of the Government has done it more effectually than twenty years' agitation could have done. They have brought it into contempt— they have forced it into collision not only with the feel ings of the people, but with their religion and the obvious justice of the case. They have placed it in array against the people, and in its present condition it cannot long prolong its existence. It is well that we have bad this three or four days debate, as it will give the English people an opportunity of knowing the nature of the projects which are intended to be pursued in Ireland. When they have examined the nature of those projects, the people of England will be able to say whether they will enable his Majesty's Ministers to suspend trial by Jury and the Habeas Corpus Act for their sakes. Let not the House imagine, that the Government want these extraordinary powers merely for the sake of imprisoning a few unfortunate Whitefeet or Blackfeet. No; what I fear is, that they wish to lay hands upon those who put themselves forward in defence of their country, under pretence of being disturbers of the public peace. The unfortunate Lord Russell, who lost his head, fell a victim to his own weakness, and to the viciousness of those who entrapped him, and occasioned his fatal death. With regard to the observations of the Right Hon. Se cretary in making personal distinctions, was it necessary that he should single out an amiable character for panyge ric, when the country had chosen to elect another person, equally amiable, but more suited to their views ? It was not fair or honourable to make such distinctions, for the Right Hon. Secretory ought to bow with respect to the election of the people. Another objection with regard to the repeal of the Union was, that his Hon. and Lem ned Friend (Mr. O'Connell) would be the leader of the Irish House of Commons. If his Hon. Friend bad the talent to be so—if he had great talents for that office, why should he not be placed in it ? The observations of the Right Hon. Secretary upon the Irish Members were exceedingly unfair; they only wished that all should ex hibit gentlemanly feelings, and such conduct only as ought to be pursued. In the course of the debate, a Right Hon. Gentleman, a former Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Grant) had addressed the House on what he said he knew from his own knowledge of Ireland and her distresses. That Right lion. Gentleman knew but little of Ireland, for he was a very short time there, and when he left office, there re mained 1,400 letters unopened in his desk. He stated, and took credit to himself for so stating, that he voted for Ca tholic Emancipation; but it should be recollected that that measure was one of state necessity, and one which the Government of the day could not refuse. He entreated Honourable Members to watch the signs of the times, and to put a stop to that bodily torture which was now going forward ; for there were many now lying in jail without the proper formality of the law. A barrister was now in Kilmainham gaol, and the suf• ferings of Mr. Hodnett, now in Coils gaol, were most disgraceful to those who caused them.—(Hear, hear.) That gentleman had been most cruelly used, and the feelings of himself and family abused and insulted. In speaking of Sir Georee Bingham, he could not use that language which he would du if that gentleman was alone. If he were alone, he would not speak of him disrespectfully. He imputed nothing improper to him, but he imputed to the Judge who tried him great criminality, so far as a misapplication of his power went. When he (the Hon. Member) heard of the Judge inflicting a fine of sixpence upon the Gallant Officer, and expressing the most excruciating pai❑ at having to do S 3, he could not but think that that Judge must have forgotten that he bad tried many an individual for comparatively trifling offences, and sent them to expiate their offences on a scaffold. When he heard also of the Judge immediately afterwards retiring into a private room with one of the Jury, and the individual who had been found guilty, he could not but think that such conduct was extremely indecent, improper, and criminal.—(Hear.) These were things that aggravated the people of Ireland, and it was not to be expected that there would be found in Ireland a criminal Court till the Jury were selected by ballot. Others were agitators as well as the Hon. Gentleman, and they were willing to take their share of the blame, and therefore such words as had been used by the Right Hon. Gentleman were not proper. It was unmanly of him to use words, under the shelter of the Speaker, which he could not do in another place. He might repeat them a second time, but be might then learn a lesson which would teach him not to do so a third time. Agi tation on the question of Reform was legitimate, accord ing to the creed of the Hon. Gent. opposite, and that questio❑ was carried by Members from Ireland who owed their election to that very agitation. And what was the return they had got ? Why, the Attorney• G eneral, the Devil, and a parcel of his imps were let loose upo❑ them fur the collection of tithe—that odious impost. He considered that there was vast danger from the disorga nized state of Ireland, a condition of society there which was mainly attributable to the extraordinary measures of the present Government. With respect to the question of repeal, it was one worthy of grave and serious con sideration, and, he would add, one of laborious in quiry, before they could expect peace for Ireland. The people of Ireland should be convinced that this Imperial Parliament would do justice to that country before they would be satisfied with their• present condition. Ireland should not be kept up as a military garrison, for if it were it would be generally injurious to the empire. Why was it that his Majesty's Ministers did not condescend to state their measures of redress for the grievances of Ireland ? A Reformed Parliament would at least expect something more explanatory from a King's speech than the public had been accustomed to in an unreformed Parlia ment. He was sorry to find that the House was tired with the discussion of this subject ; but, be that so or not, he would fearlessly state that he never would support any Church Establishment at the expense of his country. An Hon. Member, in the course of this debate, had made some unnecessary remarks upon a gentleman obtaining in formation in a stage-coach; but for his own part, he must say that he thought it no disgrace, even in a Mem ber of Parliament, to travel in, and acquire information from a person in, a stage-coach. Mr. RICHARDS—The Hon. Member was mistaken in his allusion. The remarks or the laugh referred to by him were not made in reference to the sufferings of any clergyman, but to a speech of the Hon. Member himself. Mr. RUTHVEN said he made no complaint upon the subject, but he thought it a little too much for any one, Member or otherwise, to laugh at the recital of the suffer- ings of a respectable individual.—(Hear, hear.) He con fessed he was much gratified at many parts of the speech which fel from the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) last night, because he thought it would do him more credit with the House and with the country than any thing which he bad recently heard from him.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman hail stated that parties were now contending in this House; that a struggle had taken place ; and that he would give his disinterested support to his M ijesty's Ministers ; and so far he (Mr. Ruth ven) would agree with him. But he thought that the Right Honourable Baronet would have been nearer the mark if he had said that the struggle was for the loaves and fishes, or between those who were in and out of office.—(Hear, hear.) In truth, it appeared as if the Whigs had thrown themselves under the shelter of the Right Hon. Baronet's mantle, and he (Mr. Ruthven) was glad that they bad so readily availed themselves of his assistance.—(Hear.) He (Mr. Ruthven) must also say that he admired the talents, the fortune, the family, and the private virtues of the Right Hon. Secretary for Ire land ; but in public life he was constrained to say that the Right Hon. Gentleman was more like the agent of a tyrant than of a free Government. However, as long as the people of England sympathised with those of Ireland be had no fear for the destinies of his country. Mr. FITZGERALD (of Louth) spoke from under the Gallery on the Opposition side of the House, but we were unable to collect the import of the Hon. Gentleman's ob servations. iMr. BROWNE said that he had listened with the greatest attention to all that had fallen from the opponents of the address, during the three evenings on which the House had been engaged in the discussion, but that he had heard nothing from them to induce him to give any coun tenance or support to the amendment which they had proposed. He could not support it, because it appeared to him that the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin had not laid any ground for it. The Hon. and Learned Member bad enumerated the grievances under which Ire land laboured, but his panacea was quite insufficient. The Hon. Member for Waterford had, in his excellent speech, described the heart-rending distresses of the Irish people ; but the remedy which he suggested was very different from the remedy of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin. It was well stated by the Hon. Member for Waterford, that the distresses and disturbances in Ireland did not ori ginate in political causes, but solely and entirely in the poverty of the people.—(Loud and continued cheers.) The Hon. Member for Waterford had also justly declared, that the evil could be alleviated only by the introduction of poor laws, and that to that introduction he was pre pared to consent. The lion. and Learned Member for Dublin, who professed, and no doubt felt patriotism, con tended that the remedy of the Hon. Member for Water ford would be unavailing. All admitted the evil, although they differed with respect to the remedy. To coercive measures he was very averse; but there might be an ex ception to the objections against them. When people talked of suspending the Constitution, and the trial by Jury, they should consider who the party was by whom they had really been suspended.—(Hear, hear.) By whom had that beautiful institution, the trial by Jury, been suspended ? All persons who had any local know ledge of Ireland, were quite aware that the trial by Jury was at present nothing but a mockery. Any man who was acquainted with Ireland, was quite aware, that at the present moment thousands of crimes remained un punished, because the trial by J ury was a mere mockery. —(Hear, bear, hear.) He well knew that the opinions which he was now expressing were not popular, but he was not one of those who were disposed to bend to what he was satisfied was an error. He was desirous to adhere to the connection with England.— (Hear, bear,hear.) He by no means imputed bad motives to those who wished to dis solve that connection ; but be was not disposed, for the sake of popularity, to support a proposition which, he was persuaded, would be fatal to the best interests of the peo ple. in their argument against the adoption of any coercive measures, the opponents of the address con tended that the present laws were sufficient ; but at the some time they cast every possible odium on the po lice by whom those laws were enforced. For himself he felt much gratitude to that body, and could bear his testimony to the humanity and forbearance with which they exercised the power confided to them.—(Hear.) In the county which he represented, a system of terror prevailed—a system which was directed against the poor peasant, whose only crime was obedience to the laws. At that very moment an unfortunate peasant in the neigh bourhood of his residence had been obliged to fly from his home and conceal himself in the woods, merely because he was a man of good character, and was obedient to the laws. The day before he (Mr. Browne) left Ireland, this man came to him and told him he did not know what to do, for that he had not the means of emigrating to Ame rica; and informed him that he had slept on the preced ing night in the vestry-room of the Church.—(Hear.) He could state to the House many other circumstances of a similar nature, which would warrant the suspension of what was now only a mockery. He was determined, therefore, to give his humble support to his Majesty's Go vernment; not from any wish to partake of the loaves and fishes, but because he approved of their measures. Coming from Ireland, he felt that he should have been guilty of a great breach of duty if he had not stated what he knew of the system of terror, oppression, cruelty, and wickedness which at present prevailed there. He was no friend to severe penal laws ; and he knew that they were not cal culated to attach a people to a Government. But here was a case in which, there being a suspension of all the constitutional protection afforded to the subject by trial by jury, the Legisluture were called upon to interfere and apply a remedy to the evil ; and in his opinion the mea sures to be adopted ought to be strong, in order that they might be effectual. Mr. ROURKE said, that since Ministers had taken their seats on that bench, there had been a surprising va riance in their policy towards the two countries. In Eng land they were all for Reform—in Ireland for coercion. Their conduct had been equally strange at the Dublin elections ;—for the city they gave their support to two Conservatives, andfor the University to two Reformers.— He rejoiced, however, to say, that in both contests they received a signal defeat. Again, in their policy abroad, they were Anti-Unionists, but at home just the reverse. In Bel gium they were Anti-Unionists, but here they were Unionists " even to the death." As this question of the Union was likely to be a fashionable one, he should repeat an extract delivered twenty years since by a Noble Lord in the other House (Lord Byron), on the motion of Lord Donough more for a Committee on the Rom +n Catholic claims, April 21, 1812 :—" If it must be called a Union, it is the union of the shark with his prey ; the spoiler swallows up his victim, and thus they become one and indivisible." After a few further remarks, which were lost amidst the impatience of the House, the Hon. Member concluded by saying, that he would readily have voted with Ministers for coercive measures, if they had promised to try con ciliation first. Mr. PETER (Bodmin) could not reconcile it to his sense of duty to vote on this question without stating the reasons on which his decision was founded. If he did not feel satisfied that something remedial was instantly to be adopted towards Ireland, he would not go hand in hand with Ministers—he would long hesitate before acceding to the proposed coercion ; but believing on his soul and ho nour that the one was as necessary to its present state as the other to its future peace, he felt himself bound to sup. port Ministers in their intended measures. He did not form his judgment on the state of Ireland by the reports of newspapers, but on the evidence of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman—(Hear, from Mr. O'Connell)—and the friends who surrounded him ; and in that evidence there was enough to satisfy him of the correctness of the vote he purported to give.—(Cheers.) In much that had been stated by the Honourable and Learned Member for Dublin, and the Honourable Member for Waterford, he fully concurred, for Ireland undoubtedly was suffering under many wrongs which loudly called upon them to use every practicable endeavour to remove.—(Hear, heir, hear.) The Grand Jury Laws, the Assessments, Church Cess, and many other things, were evils which required an early and proper revision. Taxed as that country was for a Church she did not approve—every half-starved peasant having something wrung from him for it, he felt that palliative measures could not be too soon applied. Though voting for the address, he frankly owned there were many things that ought not to be, and that the complaints so frequently made were but too true. He well knew that amongst the Magistrates there was a vast deal of party spirit.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—that the lives of the people were often endangered and sacrificed by it—(Hear, hear)—and that there was much more due to the forbearance of the military than the discretion of the Magistrates.—(Cheers.) But were there not more evils in Ireland than those thus complained of? 'What was the sta'e of the peasantry, and what the rate of wages?—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") If they wished to set to in earnest to tranquillise that country, they must begin by bettering the condition of her people—(Cheers)—moral as well as physical—they must give them something to hope for—(Cheers)—something to live for—they must give them a stake in the country— (Cheers)—an intetest, a personal interest i❑ her welfare and tranquillity.—(Loud cheers.) He had already ad mitted the existence of alarming evils, but whilst he made that admission, he must not be supposed as in the remotest degree attributing them to the present Ministers.— (Cheers.) He could not agree that the accumulated ills of ages—the wrongs and insults and injuries of centuries—could be redressed by any Ministry of two years' standing. —(Lourl cheers.) He would ask, was it possible for Ministers to hive done more than they had during the past two years?—(Cheers.) Could they, he would appeal to any candid mind, have in troduced an efficient and proper measure for the relief of the many abuses of Ireland with a reason able prospect of success, pending the discussion of that vast Reform—that great Bill, on which the peace, the safety, and the happiness of the whole kingdom depended ? (Loud cheers.) He did not deny that there were occa sions when agitation became necessary—(Cheers from the Opposition benches)—under bigoted Governments for in stance, or at those periods when just and acknowledged rights were withheld. Such was the case in 1782, when the Earl of Charlemont and the patriot Grattan, at the head of one hundred thousand volunteers, stood forth for the rights of Ireland. Such was the case with the Catholic Association, when they agitated for those po litical rights which had been too long denied ; and such was the ease when the Reform Bill, on which both King and people were bent, was attempted to be crushed. Now, however, there was no occasion for agitation when a Reformed House—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. O'Connell) and a liberal Government—(Cheers from the Opposi tion Benches)—he would repeat it, a liberal Government were pledged to the practical redress of grievances.— (Cheers.) Storms which disturbed the atmosphere also cleared it, but they were not the breath of life ; and strong medicines, though wise in some cases, would not do as daily food. In all countries, wretches could be found who were ever on the look out, like smugglers in a storm, to pursue agitation, to create tumult, and effect their nefarious projects, if possible, with impunity.— (Partial cheers.) He besought all persons, whether within the House or without it—men of all parties, of all prin ciples, of all creeds, Orange or Catholic, in their views and conduct towards Ireland, to merge all inferior points. He besought theirs to this by the love of their country : " Ne, pueri, tanta animis assuescite belle : Neu patrise validas in viscera vertite vires Tuque prior, to parce." He did not mean to speak offensively to the Hon. and Le trned Member for Dublin or any one else, but in sin cerity. He trusted he would pause in his career, that he would wait until he found what measures were to be adopted for the benefit of Ireland. He (Mr • O'Connell) could never succeed in what he proposed—or if he did, it would be through seas of blood.—(Cheers.) From the evidence of all parties, it was evident that decisive measures were necessary. The law was a dead letter. Under the present frightful state of alai's, the ricl. man was set against the poor man—the Protestant against the Catholic —and friend against friend. What was to be done ? Do justice, he said.—(Loud cheers.) Alas ! this was not the work of a minute—not the work of months after centuries of misrule.—(Hear, hear.) What then was to be done in the mean time ? Was the midnight murderer and incendiary to stalk abroad unheeded and unpunished?—(Cheers.) No; life, property, must be o p e nly protected and vindicated, and if the Government was not strong enough, ampler powers must be conceded to them.—(Hear, hear.) They would thus be enabled to maintain the supremacy of the law "ne quid detrimenti respublica caoeret." - . ROTCH (we believe), after some prefatory obser vations, which were indistinctly heard in the gallery, and some personal remarks on Mr. O'Connell and " his pro phecies," proceeded t o o b serve , that Hon. Members seemed to forget all other subjects in this address but Ire land. If the exact views of every Hon. Member were to be embodied, a month's time would he spent upon it.— (Hear, hear.) As to the remarks which had been made by preceding speakers on the omission of any mention of the labouring classes, he would observe, that during the last session a most efficient step had been taken in their behalf by the minute investigation directed to be made into the operation of the poor laws. This would tend moat importantly to alleviate their condition. The Hon. Member made a few general remarks on the subject of tithes, and concluded by expressing his hope that in their Church Reform they should belie the hopes of its ambushed enemies, and prove that they could thoroughly amend without destroying the establishment. Colonel TORRENS did not mean to detain the House long, but wished to state the reasons for which he should not vote for the address. In the first place, be regretted that the speech from the throne was framed in the manner that it had been—that it stared either too much, or not enough. He would have had it so framed as to realise Mr. Canning's idea of the perfection of such a production, and in that manner prevent the necessity of this prelimi nary discussion. Those who thought Reform had gone too far, and those who thought it had not gone far enough, had often been united in fighting the battle of the people, and he should have been glad to see them united on the present occasion, that of the first assembling of the first Reformed Parliament—an occasion which be thought to he one of national congratulation, for it was the greatest improvement that had taken place in our government since the times of our Saxo❑ ancestors. The people were now unhappily suffering from very general distress, and they would expect redress from this Reformed Parliament. The comforts of the labouring classes too required to be considered, and he believed that the Government intended to pass a Bill for the shortening of the hours of labour in factories ; but when they did so, they must be prepared for t e results. Distress would at first be greater, in consequence of such a Bill. At present wages were re duced to the starving point, and the first effect of such a measure would be to lower theta further. It must, therefore, be accompanied by the means of obtaining cheaper food, and of allowing a more extended consump tion of our manufactures. These measures were not plainly enough indicated in the speech, and he could not, therefore, vote for the address. Before he sat down, he must be permitted to allude to Ireland. He regretted that Earl Grey and his enlightened colleagues should have any hostile feelings towards Ireland. It was impossible to say that they had any other but a desire to promote the peace, the security, and the happiness of Ireland—(Hear, hear)—but they had, in fact, though unintentionally, committed some great mistakes. The first and worst was the very frame of the Government itself. Why was exclusion banished from the Statute-book, if it was to be kept up in practice ? That was one of the reasons why the Catholic Relief Bill did not produce satisfaction. That Bill had been made a dead letter. They had formed a Cabinet, in which they had, unfortunately, included that very principle which they had often most eloquently de nounced. Not one Catholic of talent, or who had acquired the confidence of the country, was to be found among the Members of the Cabinet. I❑ that manner the Govern ment was cut off from the sympathies of the people. That was one evil consequence of such conduct. Another was, that the Government were not well informed on the real state of Ireland. What was the state of Ireland ? Before the Union Ireland had been partly an agricultural and partly a manufacturing country. Since the Union it had ceased to be a manufacturing, and was now entirely an agricultural country.—(Hear, bear, from Mr. O'Connell.) That transaction had produced the greatest distress. One-fourth of the population of a country was sufficient to produce food enough for the whole. If that was so, as every one knew it was, then what was to be done with the rest of the population, if there were no manufactures ? The Hon. Member for Banbury had said that the intro duction of capital into Ireland would be one of the reme dies for the distress. He (Col. Torrens) was able to prove, that, instead of making things better, it would make them worse.—(A laugh ) He stated it as a broad ass, rtion.— (Loud laughter.) He was prepared to prove it.—(Re newed laughter.) He was prepared to prove that the introduction of capital into Ireland, instead of making things better, would make them worse. Take the capital from England, or from the moon, but get it. Well, then, when it was carried to Ireland, it could not be employed in manufactures there. No person could be so absurd as to suppose that all the capital in Lombard•street could create in Kent or Sussex manufactures to compete with those of the North of Eng land. In fact, manufacturers must go where fuel is cheap. If capital could not carry manufactures to Kent or Susses.. how could it carry them to Dablin or Cork ? While the trada was a coasting trade, and Ireland had to compete with England, there could be no manufactures in Ireland. What was the consequence? Why that Ireland, in con nection with England, must necessarily employ her la bourers in the cultivation of the soil. What, then, would he the result of the increased capital ? Capital would establish an improved method of agriculture, and would introduce into Inland the systems of Norfolk and the Lotiri ins; and what would be the consequence? That any given quantity of labourers would cultivate more than they did at present ; so that there would be less employ ment for any number of people upon any given extent of surface. In England there was more agricultural capital than in Ireland, and in England on any farm whatever there were fewer labourers than on a farm of the same extent in Ireland. The same would be the case there, and the amount of the surplus population would be increased. It was true it would raise the value of land, and raise rent, and the Hon. Member for Banbury would have another opportunity of referring to the increased exports of Ireland ; they would only prove the increased dis tress. Some people thought there ought to he poor laws in Ireland, but different from those that were in England. Certainly they must. But what modification of the por laws would do for England, if the manufac tures were gone, and the rates were supplied entirely by an a‘sessinent upon the land? If the poor laws were necessary to save the people from starvation, let us have them; but they ought to know what was to be given, and what would he the effect of the gift. Such a system of poor laws would be equal to the introduction of the Spencean system, and they must enact in that House that the land was the people's farm. Another remedy proposed was to cultivate the bogs. It might be a re medy, but then the food must be raised on these hogs at a less expense than at present, or otherwise the matter would be worse than now. Another remedy proposed was to create a wall of custom-house duties. That course he did not recommend. It might enable the surplus po pulation of Ireland to maintain themselves for a time, but the landlords should consider it well before they adopted it, for the value of their estates would be decreased 50 per cent. One other remedy was emigration, of which he approved. He was certain that the evils of Ireland could not be put down by coercion. In the address none of these topics were alluded to, and for that reasoa he should not vote for it. He did not wish to join in any factious debate, and to embarrass Ministers, for they had much to do, and little time to do it in : and he should therefore sit down in the hope that the distress which the people of that country now suffered would meet with the speedy attention of Parliament, and obtain effectual relief. He called on them to be diligent before the petty cloud that lowered in the distance became an universal darkness, and before a trifling wound, which might be remedied if attended to in time, was converted into deadly gangrene. Mr. BRISCOE had determined, on the whole, to sup. port the address ; but in doing so he could not refrain from saying that there were omissions in the Royal speech, which, however, he trusted would be amply com pensated by the labours of his Majesty's Ministers. There was no allusion in the speech. to the great grievance of colonial slavery, nor to those measures from which, above all, the people expected relief from their burdens—the measures for insuring a diminished expenditure. Neither was there in the speech any expression of sympathy with the distress of the people of this realm, and for those priva tions which it was the hard lot of the lower classes and of some of the middle classes to endure. He hoped that the promise in the speech to remove the causes of complaint included the introduction of improvements. He had been assured by the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exche quer, that it was the intention of the Government to re dress the wrongs of Ireland, and were it not for the state ment in the speech that the Church of Ireland should re ceive a separate consideration, he could nut have supported the address. If coercion should ultimately be proved to be absolutely necessary, he should reserve to himself the right of judging of the amount of that coercion, of the manner in which it was to be applied, and of the time for which it was to continue; and as be was satisfied on these points he would vote. Ile considered the suspension of the ordinary administration of justice as one of the greatest political evils, and as one which should not be resorted to but in the extremity of danger, and to stay the dissolution of the framework of society. He should give his support to the address only from the confidence he placed in the Ministers, that they were determined to re dress the wrongs of much-injured Ireland ; and he was convinced that if that was honestly and effectually done, many of those who now called for the repeal of the Union, would no longer agitate that question. Mr. O'DWYER began by praising the Hon. Member for Dublin, who, he said, it was satisfactory to know had stood more formidable attacks than those of the Member for Knaresborough. In fact, in proportion as those at tacks were made, in the same proportion had he risen, and would continue to rise in the estimation of his coun try. Agitation was blamed now, but it had been thought good under certain circumstances —tor instance, when English Catholics wished to get admitted to the Peerage— when the Tories were coquetting for place—(Hear) —and when fires were burning through the country, then agi tation was admired; but now that there were no pard cular objects to attain, agitation was condemned. Although he would not presume to offer the Right Hon. Secretary W Would fat Ireland the trib u t e of his commiseration, be °to il a c i i sides. con gratulate Ministers on t h e extraor di na ry e bt ili f entlens ai which they were pla ce d. H e ca ll e d upon the R i g nd tof • ar 4 4Por Gest tleman to stat e hi e p l an f a i r l y an d open lY,e seroill ' t riton) fel Clare at once wheth er h e meant to spare or to ue / sit rttoe c i Chut ch.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Barone t , 1 / 41 , 1 1r bad r Peel) last night had adverted to the condition 0 1 .1 re • t be y 'r. obli at thso period of the Union, and upon this point tot' Roble to read an extract from a speech delivered at the er et 1 tee , Mr. Plunket, now a distinguished Member of the , Nona Government.—(The Hon. Gentleman here read a ; weakenel te it or, cation from a speech delivered by Lord Plullk e et e i r eb: c 'uough Irish Parliament, in which he described the " °- ,,r „ - " r to of state of Ireland, blessed with a population of four ftb " ita i ' y e t he e ras millions of handy, gallant, and enthusiastic i" h . /0. enure wool living u nder equal laws, and enriched by thri r ' n the 4 4 * As o and rnatetifactures.) Such were the words of ly e I °ll . Ne t cent Lord Chancellor for Ireland ; but he (M r ' °‘ estri 1: 41 , 1 " a l pie saw how rapid was the transition from a r ap , I C With ro bursting with heroic rage," and a smiling Ple ee r e r the smoothness: and servility.—(Cheers. He %% rye ' st o 11 , 4 °se ri to / himself, in a few further observations, to other I' t moos G er the proposed address. How the Right Hon. 13er'Pe rei v, ( 1 )1'1 t ° thi R. Peel) could give his vote in favour of the P oe a lick h ad Ministers he knew not, unless he was resolved tO, of bee to th tain the Protestant Ch urc h , an d to oppress Cstv%p of clistetba land. There was not a single point of og reein e e e rl' 0 1 5 441 the tween the Right H on . B aronet and the Secre tary far e altebl e. land. How could th e Ri g h t H on. Baronet vote 0 0 110 fi r 3:11' 4 :t address which suppo r t e d t h e separate ex i stence of t t )4ie Rate and Belgium ? He (Mr. O'Dwyer) was astonished aohi ee course pursued by Ministers towards those countr ie ' i lee etl Y to b e, dared they interfere between rebels and their l e g r e , e ce e lide, Sovereign ? With the distribution of Church )e e s te r sec but England he had nothing to do ;it was a mere e l d sa a lc h d es tastee—(Cheers and laughter.) If the gentry and k;.,,P,reestd, tants of England thought fit to maintain an e", DJ demo o f • ke ttti Church Establishment, it was their own choic e ' oo r r he ,ed was not for him to dispute its fitness. The ru e ' s- t e be recommended for Ireland, it was said, ff e ,'„ t 11+ th at Weir s founded upon a principle of just commutation ; 4 ' that d Ministers prepared to say that a Catholic P,.., 4 ,010 ts P e re Yed se / would and should maintain a Protestant Church or'''" aff i e, went ? Let them not lay that flattering unction te o at! of ; L Wittd on , souls. At the same time, he was not devoid of oif i i t hat gre - at for the Protestant clergy of Ireland :he thought I : ie e ti e v t e rotn eet been exceedingly ill-treated by Government, f i k e l 'gti' littleountry assisted in a gross delusion of the people. net ise, kid pi, that the present possessors of church propertYa. to be provided for ; but why did the Right 1-1 2 ° sti e l ,°t th e a] cretary confine all his sympathy to the clergy', ad ol d not had he none for the people ? He would : t d i n g' 4; 44 if h e the benevolence of Ministers in this respect, by e t e 4.aea sureB abstract of th e d ecrees o b ta i ne d i n two parishes °' fo" of d r , l tY th an rary. In one in s t ance a man was proceeded 3gliTfor penny ; yet, although he produced a receipt in fu .) as t 'llea sute tithes, he was compelled to pay the costs.—(Ch eer' s ed atee es i required eleven decrees to recover only fivepen c , e; ., el° he hu m the whole there were 9,5 M processes at a sing' e toe t i t :t said of Tipperary.---(Hear.) Would Parliament, thelar iee, si de b %la eta to the present Government unexplained, uncontrot`ie r tsejsee keet unlimitable authority? He flt much indebted for o fl T tient consideration of the House :be felt the tru th e eei , oub ted he had advanced, and would not be restrained bY 6°l o eteb tod h ad ing of diffidence.—(Cheers and laughter.) r h . e te t bs e 4 gfles ee Hon. Baronet recommended unmitigated sever l V,''' eee tt greet e , Secretary for Ireland exclaimed " War to the I ' o ' e t se fed not b e (No, no.) War to the k n if e , or war to the dest1 1 "; 01 1, fo r It d o was not much diff e r ence i n t h e expression. l 'eci 4 eiti e °4 oet s Member of the Government said that he preferre, e lf th e war to dismemberm en t ; an d t h e M em b er f o r 13 . W as - "'e of (Mr. Tancred) recommended a military dictatorshl.P'et th et 'tse ett (Mr. O'Dwyer) recommended, if such a dictatorsh9 N t . l ttipl e re ' established, that the Hon. Member so peculiarly cl e , o o' of the slip should be made its Chancellor..-Hear. tt111 1 : ig t , Ministers that their conduct might not only be "' t i t . ; of I.oeoQesew're to themselves, but destructive to the integrity of t. 1% Agr a i rl g at e , pire. Charles X. of France, and the King of ' to P i Ntra t i v n load, like the Secretary for Ireland, cried W e e r , , g, tos e very death, and what had been the consequence?--(Ce f erl, ki"le a t ,, °l th - Mr. STANLEY rose in haste and amid a good with., he a r e confusion. lam (he said) too much its the ca ul °, 4 er of having my expressions misinterpreted--(C"- however explained and refuted, yet repeated over rl ° to' th e! t i ore reper ass l again, until those who repeat begin to believe th e / f eel it t heard—(Hear)—to allow me to sit silent on the Path 4 5 i b eeti 4 tr , re-repetition. It ha s b een sa id that I have eMPl e t e , ktdr e 41 ea expression of war to th e k n if e or war to t h e del!' ti oe 4 e ' Wes 4: may be very convenient to have it published 1 ; ° ,5 0 the ;'re lea - ct newspapers—(Cheers from all sides)—and be!c, Withi''elli efe a made the subject of harangues in Ireland—( lle3r o ' r ioe: t ° to t 4 , 4 is k nn —that the Secretary for Ireland entertains the - J ett' °t Ali al that w.r is to be waged to the knife or to th e Sal e t wile), Yo th te i therefore, in the presence of the representatives o. a land, Scotl 'rad, and Ireland, who heard what J i s3l Sio b th e atts former day, I now assert again that I never use" ho 'Of a Il e expression.—(Cheers.) This I did say, that the, ,rot *o 4o' the the Union between the two countries, coneiderr 4 ( of th be mot, equivalent to the dismemberment and destrUct i t:tle' 4:, ° ' bein g empire, I would, if need were, resist to the " o f IN a• WAL silen T (Much cheering and great confusion in all par ts I}4 s, so het tl nti House.) tleo 0 1 1 o Mr. O'DWYER—I make the Right Hon. Gee h elf t a d i q°Pits cc present of his explanation.—(Hear, hear.) P r° „ s jet i t!llost may proceed from the obtuseness of my Hibernian 0,, e moa with lect, but I confess I cannot understand the distar' d , 1) :44, th u (Oh, oh, and cheers.) I take him in his own w er eis ite tt f l 0 th e , I tell him this—that the experiment of despotisa l 0 4 0 0 7 o N t WO tee be successful. Coming from a country where 1 ; /e r)' b ge t can speak the truth—(Hear, hear, hear, and loug (10 ii, ° c tse' to where no man can speak or print the truth - i te /le!, gee: the tec hear, and cheers)---it is pleasant to me to know t , t ire disregard with the utmost composure the ridicu e eli te4l4 t t : i t t te at ' t e ft t h i : of my country or of myself.—(Heare) The endue tl ° 1 ; 1 11 14, 4 4 0ti 0n of a horse laugh may be considered courtesy iteprl ttte tl t th, c country, but in Ireland it would he treated in 4 bter Or b that could admit of no mistake.—(Hear, and I f g dsre i t ,° eke /4 , Y What I said was, that no man in Ireland wool" re oic 'keeh , tell the truth in speaking of the atrocities and opP r od oe „1 . 4 1 , 04 you r qiied th of the Government.—(Hear.) I repeat it : ,bert tilt f there are so filled, that an instance has occurre d ",,,0" a cts to t cc" - Utt t c tal man was discharged from custody for want 0f a ' ,l th t i r dation. There are more prosecutions for libel ' 3°W t hat er• E the t 'en even in the tim e o f t h e Ri g h t Hon. Baronet. ill Jae, 'lees ti Sir R. PEEL sa id, t h at be was not aware 0' e" ' a 4141 c ct o f g time. a . 'or Mr. O'DWYER-1 am glad to hear that t here o f pr t '''o t none ; and I only wish that the Right gab o cie t i (i t ' . 4l ti ra ttl the would forego the tranquil enjoyments of Engli' h o eer t :Rte e 'st h eti and again come amongst us—for any change W° ° ' t eat '4 1:1 1i ", the better. The Hon. Member went on to soY' c e kei ° Yroen t bad warned the Secretary for Ireland that lois eq e t 0 .0; C'tl l ' t of despotism would fail ; it bad failed before, sa d I iss ° feted fail again, notwithstanding the Thraso-like b ' oast s ° fsrt lit itertitthkt.t due Members Members of the Cabinet. He would tell hia' h oid p 4 g t o 4 the t not in the way of menace, but instruction—tha t L : ( pit; encounter with the people of Ireland, if they w er :',, e er e t -7 to h: 4 ) so d by oppression to violence—and he hoped most ale e l ks .) %ei nem that they never would he compelled to resort to th at e e - d,, 1514114 te e native.-might not end so happily as he anticipatedol/eer 4 14 4 '0, ett u ti Dr. LUSHINGTON expressed his regret an d e c oe ri h 4 e l rene t b , )' th e at the tone and temper which had pervaded a tie c•e ° ,; tl tlie d fe rable portion of the debate.—(Hear,, hear.) " se ort t i n 't e e tio k ",he not tout lament deeply that many gentlemen rope s n ail 4 '14; " .. .Ov ate places in Ireland had thought fit to hold out 00 4 11 104 f of 401 Members language of menace and intimidation e ffeC i th r and cries of " No, no.") It cou ld pr o duce but or` 0 4, 11 71 ; Y ; 4114 : it would no t a id the Irish M em b ers i n o btaint a gi s e t it e throu gh was inconsistent with t h e judgment and princip le ' tc lA (4 kigh t English part of the House—(Much cheering)- --bu if . „4 °' ktwi, rather indu c e them t o v i ew w i th great vigilanc e ' gr ev i te '"srie t too g l y suspicion, prop os i t i ons so supported. He deep ly few littj" % Elk " , tl the language i n w hi c h t h e Honourable Member W b e , , 0, 14 4 10 ttt just resumed his seat had thought fit to indulge. n ote th e ° sh e gam eed ferred not to his vituperation against Governaie vt e ' e Pi e t' toie tt rta' 4l e rler e e the harmless darts he had so violently hurled a t t. ; Of . 1 Citr,Y Hon. Secretary for Ire;and ; these were the ie't!",llo u i e oake iC e b had difficulties with which he bad to contend ; but 1 1, bi / i4 kes e Pi tit e ° , ° to words which he (Dr. Lushington) had fixed e l eet rol l , t i! th e collection when the Hon. Gentleman spoke of "teot‘ill tt tr eel lrar et the Protestant Church. He begged to know if s eer 4 qi n tit and / 4 ktt & Y an expression to which the Hun. Gentlema n too hg'" adhere ? ice Ppear Mr. O'DWYER—When he spoke of interfee 0 01 th o , t N il ,. the Protestant Church, begged to be und er : . ) v ehote e Ali t e t , 4 mean interference with its temporalities- na ( t 11 4 : 0 .4- 1 Dr. LUSHINGTON thought the ex mmn"°f Ras to satisfactory than the original expression.—(Cheetre'red had apprehended that every Member who el' ar bee S irie att 'll, House was hound by a sacred ohligat-( 11e , - ;db l e Ligitatetked to —not to uphold the abuses of the F'rotestant "'we, W ere e t i o t anent—the imperfections with which time mig ht ,' 10, Who heeilltoset7Y grafted it —tout to support, maintain, reform , n ot it l t ktis eb, t 4t that establishment.—(Cheers.) He had though t i t e t 't ee, l 4 o P Roman Catholic :Members entered the Houser t e e ,re e e er ltee t r tet ' e u c t ing words which they subscribed male a dell eitoo", e o `'ee t j' e ' upon their minds :—" And Ido hereby discleitatee p rej oli e ts /tat t and solemnly abjure any intention to subvert ti ° ol ., JP / ne Church Establishment, as settled by liwr."- - ( , t d ol v t i; I . :"^fron ) to Y ek pe ! Mr. O'Connell.) After that cheer he might re- o 'fell' " n r ": , ,hi ß h` And Ido solemnly, in the presence of God , p, t iont h' 44 he 1 14 (1 4 tify, and declare, that I do mu oke this declareoe, c ete, :tel e t _ every part thereof, in the plain and ordinary e ! at i e te, 0 744 e 1 4 4, b. =, out any evasion, equivocation, or mental re serve It: 00 the E ,t (Hear, hear, from Mr. O'Connell.) If th c elot l( ' 0, r aia 4 ar 0 °4 . 4 1 4 and Learned Member supposed that by his !j u i t fror 1 : 1 1 tl B , t e h du et ' could for one single instant intimidate Iltpoeo,,)/,h"feltstraight path of his duty—(Cneers) —if be su p ceee ry e ot h, th e I N 441 he could be a prime agitator here—(Mouh the 11 0,1 if he thought that that character could be assn, she with the consent even of a petty majority or