The Sun. — London, England, 1863-07-01 00:00:00

vene4on of the law punishable by a fine of not less than £5 or more than £2O. The committee divided, when there appeared— For the amendment 3B Against it Majority The amendment was, therefore, introluced into the clarse. Mr. HODGSON moved a direct negative to clause 9, which proposes that compensation shall be awarded to the proprietors of weirs in certain cases. Mr. BRUCE defended the allowance of compensation, as simply just to the owners of property. Aftei some discussion the amendment was negatived without a division. TMr. BRUCE agreed to the omission of clause 9. Clauses 10 and 11 were agreed to, after some discussion, and the introduction of some amendments, especially one by M.r. Butt to the effect that one of the commissioners should be a barrister whose duty it would be to be present at every eceeting. Clauses up to 16, with some amendments, were agreed to. There are 33 clauses in the bill, and six pages of amend ments ars still on the " votes." At 4 o'clock the sitting was suspended, The house resumed at 6 o'clock. PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND). In reply to Mr. LANIGAN, Sir R. PEEL said is was not the intention of the Govern • ment tD introduce any bill this session to facilitate the exe cution of public works in Ireland. REFUSAL OF A CLEARANCE TO THE GIBRALTAR. Mr. HORSFALL asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the British ship Gibraltar, bound for Nassau, had been refused a clearance by the Customs authorities at Liverpool ; if so, on what ground the refusal was based, and whether it had been done at the instigation of Mr. Adams, the American Minister. Mt .L AY ARD, in reply, said—l bet; to remind the house that the Gibraltar is another name for a wEll-known vessel, the Sumter. That vessel was sold at Gibraltar under pecu liar circumstances. She tame to Liverpool, and it became known to the Government that she was shipping guns of a very heavy calibre, and for that reason her clearance had been stopped by the Custom-house officers, but not at the instigation of Mr. Adams. It has since been found that these guns do not constitute a fit and proper armament for the vessel itself, and the officers of the Crown are of opinion that the fact of shipping these guns is not sufficient to authorise the Government to withhold the clearance, which will be returned, THE NATIONAL SCHOOL AT GREENWICH. Sir S. M. PETO asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty whether it was intended to erect an additional wing to the Nautical School Buildings at Greenwich, which would not be in keeping with the new wing lately erected at a consi derable cost to the funds at Greenwich Hospital ; and, whether there would be any objection to an outline plan of the proposed wing being laid before Parliament before in curring any further expenditure on account thereof. Mr. STANSFELD—The plans had only been considered by the board. When adopted they would be laid on the table. In the meantime he should be happy to show them to his hon. friend. THE ANCIENT CHURCH OF AUSTIN-FRIARS. In reply to Mr. FoßTEscvz, Mr. COWPER said he had no information whether it was intended to demolish this building, and that he had no power to prevent it. THE NAVIGATION OF THE SI.OUR. In reply to Colonel R OWLET, Mr. F. PEEL said negotiations were pending to secure the rights of navigation of the Stour, and that parts of the bed of the river was an oyster bed, which was independent of the conservancy of the Stour. THE MHOW COURT MARTIAL. In reply to Mr. CONINGHAM, The Marquis of HARTINGTON declined to give any further informatian on the subject of the Mhow court martial until the papers were laid upon the table. THE RECOGNITION OF THE SOUTHERN CONFEDERACY. Mr. W. E. FORSTER asked the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether any communication had been received by the Foreign Office from the French Go vernment relating to the recognition of the Southern Con federacy. Mr. LAYARD—It is very important that I should give a clear, definite answer to my hon. friend. No communi cation whatever, either as regards the offer of mediation, of armistice, or of recognition, has, up to this mom.nt, been made to her Majesty's Government by the French Govern ment, Of course I mean since last autumn. THE QUESTION OF PRECEDENCE BETWEEN EDINBURGH AND DUBLIN. Mr. BLACK asked whether the deliverance of Sir Charles Young was to be held conclusive, with reference to the right of precedence of Edinburgh or Dublin in presenting ad dresses to her Majesty? Sir G. GREY said he knew of no higher authority upon the subject, and should feel justified in acting upon that authority. RUSSIA AND POLAND. Mr. HORSMAN gave notice that on Thursday next he should ask whether the English Ambassador at St. Peters burg had been instructed to keep back the French and Eng lish notes until the arrival of the Austrian note, as alluded to by him on a former evening. RECOGNITION OF THE KING OF GREECE. Colonel FRENCH asked how the new King of Greece was to be recognised by his people—whether by suffrage or in what other manner ? Mr. FORTESCUE—I will answer that question on Thursday. DETENTION OF SUPPOSED CONFEDERATE SUPPLIES AT LIVERPOOL. Lord R. CECIL asked, with respect to the recent seizure of two Blakeley guns on board the Gibraltar at Liverpool, whether there would be any objection to lay the correspondence on the subject before the house ? The noble lord read a copy of a note from the shipping agents, in which it was stated that the Government had stopped the guns; but the Customs' officer had informed them that if the guns had been for the Federal States no objection would have been taken, as such shipments were common. The SOLICITOR -GENERAL said that letter ought to be a warning to the house against paying attention to com munications of that kind. So far as the Government were concerned there was not a particle of truth in thestatement, nor could they believe that any officer of the port of Liver pool would have so wilfully misinterpreted his instructions. The vessel called the Gibraltar had been the well-known Sumter, the legality of the sale of which had never been re cognised by the Federal Government, and some inquiry bad been thought necessary by the Government, but the guns had subsequently been al'owed to proceed. Lord H. CECIL—My question as to the production of the papers has not been answered. (Hear, and order.) THE JUDGES OF THE lONIAN ISLANDS. In reply to Mr. MA.C4ULAX, Mr. FORTESCUE said the despatches upon this subject had not been recently produced, because they were already before Parliament; and, upon the question of disroi B sal , re ferred the hon. and learned gentleman to Parliamen tar y paper No 772, 1863. AFFAIRS OF GREECE. In reply to Mr. S. FITZGER&LD, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the £4,000 which would come to England out of the £12,000 per annum surrendered by the new King of Greece would, when received, go into the consolidated fund; but the mode in which the surrender should be made was still under con sideration. He would reply further in a few days. FEDERAL RECRUITING IN LEEDS. In reply to Mr. FERRAND, Sir G. GREY said he had not yet received the opinion of the law officers of the Crown upon the report received from the Mayor of Leeds upon this subject. RECOGNITION OF THE SOUTHERN STATES. Mr. ROEBUCK presented a petition, embodying the re solutions passed unanimously at a meeting of 20,000 persons held at Oldham a few days s ince, calling upon the house to pray her Majesty to enter into nertiations with the great Powers of Europe, with a view to effecting a recognition of the Southern States. (Hear.) The petition was ordered to lie upon the table. house, Mr. ROEBUCK then, in a veryY full and attentive rose to make the motion of which he had given notice, and spoke as follows—Sir, I well know the importance and the gravity of the question I am about to bring before the house, and I well know also the sort of obloquy to which I subject myself by so doing. lam aware that those persons who op pose me deem themselves the " salt of the earth," and that every opinion of theirs ought to be the opinion of other men, and that all other men ought to bow down to them. But, in despite of that obloquy, and believing that the course I am about to take is in the interest of my country, 1 now make my appeal to this house, to its honour and to its good feel ing, to do that which I am about to ask of them, namely, to solicit the Crown to enter into negotiations with the great Powers of Europe for the purpose of acknowledging the independence of the Southern States of America. Now, Sir, before I do this, and before I state the argument in my mind upon this matter, I must ask to be permitted to lay before the house a very short history, which I deem im portant and necessary for the full understanding of ray pro position. Not that I suppose any gentleman in this house is ignorant of what I am about to state, but in order to make my argument complete I must lay this down. Sir, about two centuries and a half ago England prepared to co- I l o nise the t hen newly-dicovered continent of America. They proposed to make that continent partly a refuge for persons in England who wished to leave England, and partly with the grander view of laying the foundation of a great nation thereafter to be created, as it were, on that continent, and thus forming the nucleus of a great purchas ing Power for their own commodities. The last colony we established there was Georgia, which was, I think, in 1772 . Those colonies owed nothing, however, to the English na tion as a nation, or to the Government as a Government, but they owed everything to the English people. From them they derived their language, their institutions, their manners, their literature, their laws, and their character. They grew up, in fact, to be a great nation. Inspired and governed by the feelings of Englishmen, they took offence at what they deemed t, be oppression. They resisted that oppression, and determined to throw off the but den. At that time, Sir, England had the misfortune to be governed by a narrow-minded, bigoted monarch. (Oh, and Hear.) That monarch determined to reeist the de- mands of the American people. He waged a w, r 'which made enemies of us and them, and, instead ,)' allowing them to separate themselves peaceably from England, they were violently divided from us, and hatre i w. a the conse- quence. However, not only did the Ame ;, ar, people esta blish their independence, but they establish -C two points of international law which I think of very great importance at the present time. The first was that may body of people determined to throw off their allegiance, if they had the power, were justified in so doing; and we acknowledged that to be a principle of international morality by the treaty we made with them in 1813. The second great point was in truth a very remarkable one. The French interfered in that dispute, and France bore the same relationship to our revolted colonies that we do now to the Confederate States of America. We made peace with France, and thereby established another rule of international morality, or as it is sometimes called international law; that is to say, we thereby acknowledged that, although we made war against Franco for so acknowledging the rebellious colonies to be indepen dent states—'we acknowledged afterwards brat France was justified in acknowledging those states before we acknow ledged them. Now these two principles of international law I deem to be of the highest importance at the present moment, and I bring them to bear against the Northern States of America; for, though other nations may dispute them, it is clear they cannot, then began the great race of American prosperity, and a very curious thing occurred, of which not much notice was taken. Alter the war of 18.15 the Northern States began their course of protection. They determined to make the Southern States, which were the great producers, subservient to themselves, and they esta blished a tariff which placed the whole carrying power in the hands of the Northern Sates, and also made the South purchase the commodities they required of the Northern manufacturers. From that moment a dispute grew up be• tween the South and the North. In 1827 the South tried to release themselves from the yoke of the tariff, but failed. Then came the hope of making slavery relieve them from that tariff and the thraldom put upon them by the Northern States. That feeling grew up day by day, month by month, and year by year, until at last secession came; and then those gentlemen who are so incorporated with the literature of the North (looking towards Messrs. Cobden and Bright) in spite of the obloquy it brought upon them, made Europe believe that the North had only to stretch forth her hand, and in 90 days they could crush the rebellion. The 90 days went past, but no conquest had been recorded ; and two years had since passed away in the same manner. The question now was, what was England to do ? He (Mr. Roe buck) said they were to recognise the South, and why ? First, because they had vindicated for themselves the right of acknowledgment. (Cheers.) With a very small force they had conquered the North, and rolled back the tide of invasion. (Cheers.) It was not Richmond that was noa threatened, but Washington. (Cheers.) Upon the question of international law he would appeal to the hon. and learned Solicitor-General whether it was not international law that when a people showed power of resistance, and declared they would be independent, we were fully justified in ac knowledging that people, and in the language of the learned Sir James Mackintosh, " that it would be no casus belli when we made that acknowledgment." (Hear.) The first question therefore was, should we acknowledge the South ? He would say "Aye," first because they had vindicated their right to be acknowledged ; and, secondly, because it was for our interest to acknowledge them. (Hear.) There had never been such a phenomenon as that now presented of 10,000,000 of civilised men producing three of the great necessary commodities of Europe—sugar, cotton, and to bacco—looking about for customers, and saying to Europe, " Here are nearly a million of your people suffering from the want of the articles we produce. We have them here to offer you, and we want to know, are you prepared to accept them ?" What was it, then, that prevented the recognition of the South ? He looked at the Government bench for a reply, and was sorry to notice the absence of the noble vis count, who was really the Government himself. (Cheers.) What was it that prevented that great act of humanity to England and of justice to America ? He knew he should be met with the statement that England could not recognise a State in which slavery existed. No ? Had we not ac knowledged Brazil? (Hear, hear.) Were we not in con stant communication with Russia ? was there no slavery there ? (Hear.) More than that, did anybody believe that the black would be at all improved in his condition by being put in the position of a free black in the North ? (Cheers.) He asked, if the North Americans hated slavery, whether they did not hate the slaves the more ? (Cheers, and a single "No" from the vicinity of Mr. Bright's seat.) He pittied the ignorance of the hon. gentleman who said " No," Why, they were not permitted to take any equal station, to ride in the same carriage, to pray to God in the same place in the churches, nor to sit down at the same table. In fact, they were hunted about like stray dogs by everybody. In the South all that was very different. Black and white chil dren were brought up and went to school together. The hon. and learned gentleman said there was a kindly feeling in the mind of the Southern planters for those men whom England sent there, and who were the cause of fixing slavery there. It was not the doing of America, for they prayed to England not to introduce or establish the slave trade; but we did it because it then suited our interests, and those who were now prone to talk philanthropy, talked " 'tother" way then. (Hear, and laughter.) He referred to the difference of feeling existing in the North and South towards the black, which could not be mistaken ; the former shivered when he came across a black, and appeared con taminated in the fact of his being on an equality with him, but that was not the case with the South. (Hear.) Slavery was as distasteful to him as to the hon. member for Bir mingham, but he had learnt to bear with other men, and with other men's infirmities—(laughter and ironical cheers) and he thought that to make all the blacks of the South like the free blacks of the North would be a curse to the land. (Oh, oh, and Hear, hear.) The cry of the North was a hypocritic cry, for they mould join the South to morrow, and fasten slavery on the necks of the South erners if they would but come into the Union ; but they never would come into the Union again, and they hoped they never might. He referred to the conduct of America before the civil war, describing her as the great bully of the world, bestriding the world like a Colossus, whilst we, like petty men, walked through her huge legs to seek for ourselves dishonourable graves ; and he assured the house that, so far as his influence went, he was determined to prevent the reconstruction of the Union. (Hear, hear.) After referring to our humiliation previous to the American difficulty—to the fact that the South was becoming a menu • factoring people, which, if continued, might tend to the in jury of the trade of this country—he said the time had come for mediation ; and the mitt question was, how it should be accomplished. He said the mode he proposed was, that that house should pray to the Queen to have communica tion with the great Powers of Europe, in meter to lead to a recognition of the South. The great Powers of Europe meant really France—(hear, hear)—for no other country but Russia has any fleet, and her fleet was not worth think ing of. (Hear, and laughter.) Russia is in a position to do nothing, and the only Power we have to consider is Vrance—(hear, hear)—and if France and England united to acknowledge the South there will be an end of the war. (Hear, hear.) Now, I am obliged to enter into a sort of per sonal history which I hope the house will excuse. lam now going to state that I know something about the state of the mind of the French ruler, which 1 am authorised to l a y before this house. (Laughter and ironical cheers.) snow ing what had been said by her Majesty's Government about the Emperor of the French ha v i ng c h anged his mind o n this subj ect, I applied to my hon. friend the member for Sunderland, knowing that he has permis s i on g i ven to him of wr iting to t he Emperor of the French when he wishes to see him, and I su ggested, as a means of ascertaining wh e th er the rum our ' was true or not, that we should go across and ask :question. in (Hear, lwre telaaungdhttehre, sanbdsitdrao3.inciecoafl his letter was laid before the cheers.) Emperor 3ry accordingly Em g y eror andwehad an u land (and he gav e En The Emperor of the Freenchinformedeuirsetahlaatti,eanasuisnoolEen.nnegaesi he had learned such a rumour t f h . ri e 'end e authority to state it in the House of Lon don to deny the truth of the assertion, his . Commons), he sent instructionstoisamabna'dsstaedaoareiunreLothne- English Government that in so far . as feelings had to • • him in and to ask them again if they were willing io changed they had become stronger in favour of recognition, that ta k e recognition.abeu tthe m a t ( t il e r e , a a r n , d h elan) Now there must t bet the eot truth h of the statement I have made. (Cheers.) tol o d me such had been sent to Baron Gros, and then to tell . d Pledge my veracityHe me that the British Government does not know that it has occurred m , m a e n a d n t some ia di a plo e m en a t t r i a c di e e v ti a o s n io , n that cannot be t he between the statem en t o f t h e witnesses ; but I repeat I pledge my veracity f or t h e truth of whaastaljhuadvgee swtaotueldd, saanyd I don't believe the world will doubt my word. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) Fu r th er th an this, I laid before his Majesty two courses of conduct that I thought ought to be pursued in the present case. I sail, "Your Majesty might make a formal application to England," upon which he stopped rue and said he could not do it, and he would tell me w hy he i could not. Some months ago, he said, he made a formal ap -1 plication to England, which was forwarded to America, and was shown by Mr Seward to the French ambassador. He considered himself ill-treated by that conduct—(hear, hear, and cheers)—and he declined subjecting himself again to the danger of similar treatment ; but he said he would do everything short of it, and he gave me full liberty to state in the English House of Commons that it was his wish and determination in all things to act with England ; and, more than all, he was determined to act with her as re garded America. (Cheers.) Ido not believe that her Ma jesty's Government are ignorant of the feelings of the Em 1, per or of the French, or that they are prepared to act in concert with France, They are afraid of a war with the Northern States in America; but my impression is that we might in ten days sweep every American ship from off the face of the seas. (Oh, oh, and cheers.) There are people who are so imbued with Northern feelings as to feel indignant with that assertion—(hear, and cheers)—but it is well known that the Warrior would destroy the whole of the North American fleet; their armies are melting away; Washing ton is in danger ; and the only fear we ought to have is that Southern independence will be established without us. (Cheers.) In conclusion, the hon and learned gentleman said—A large portion of our manfacturing population have been for some months past living on charity, and I regret to find, from information I leavt received from Manchester and THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENING, JULY 1, 1863. Lancashire that an unwillingness to labour is creeping on the people— (hear)—and that, if we carry them thrOugla the coming winter in idleness, there is no telling what the con- sequences may be on the manufacturing populati , n of those districts. And here again I quote the remarkable words of the Emperor of the French. Ile said he dreaded the coming winter with respect to his own manufacturing population— (hear, hear).--and my hon. friend the member for Sunder- land said, We do not dread the winter, though we know great misery must be inflicted on our labouring population if cotton cannot be obtained, and we desire, therefore, to avert that calamity from our countrymen that must neces sarily arise from the continuation of the cotton famine. So far the people have not blamed her Majesty's Government, believing that the misery they suffered has not been caused by any conduct of the Government, but that it h as been an inevitable calamity ; but they are not now like the ignorant people of former times, and I warn the noble lord not to do anything that can be charged upon the Government as con tinuing the present suffering. I have to-day received letters from Lancashire, stating that meetings have been held in 13 great towns in favour of the recognition of the South ; and if the noble lord refuses to comply with the just demands of the people, he will find his popularity tumbled down with a gigantic ruin, and his small friends will follow with him, (Hear, and cheers) I pray the house in all calmness to consider this subject, and, as men of honour, justice, and benevolence, to grant me the proposition I ask. (Cheers.) Lord R. MONTAGU then rose to move as An amendment that this house earnestly desires that an impartial neutrality should continuo to be maintained by her Majesty's Govern• ment during the present unhappy contest in the States of Ncrth America. The noble lord said he could not allow that the hon. member for Sheffield was more anxious than ho was for the independence of the South, nor that he more admired the noble struggle in which the South was engaged. But if he desired to bring a question I:acre the house, it was not to an Austrian Emperor or a French despot that he would run for counsel. If he wanted advice, there were plenty of members in that house who could give him better advice than any foreign Emperor. (Hear, hear.) Instead of facts and arguments, the hon. and learned member had treated them to sneers and rhetorical artifices. (Hear.) He asked them to rec guise the South, because the South was successful ; that was to say, he was for interposing to pre vent the South of having the honour of achieving her own independence. Then he put it to the house, could any Power have been more insolent to England than the North I—that was to say, the hon. member came down to the house and endeavoured to stir up the bad passions of the two nations in every possible way. But upon such a question it behoved them to put aside all passion. (Hear, hear.) How could they expect to be able to reason at all if :heir eyes were blinded with passion ? He had heard the story of the French despatch more than a year ago, but his version was that the French Government being suspected of playing a double game, Earl Russell, in order to test their faith, showed the despatch to Mr. Seward, for the purpose of proving that the French were intriguing secretly against the North. Now his conclusion was that the French Emperor had been merely making a cat's-paw of the hon. and learned gentleman. (Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the benches below the Ministerial gangway.) He owned he found himself somewhat in the position of Gen. Hooker when he crossed the Potomac—whichever way he faced there was an enemy before him, all retreat being cut off. The hon. member for Dungarvan (Mr. Maguire) supported re- cognition on the ground of the horrible waste of human life that was taking place ; but he always mistrusted those sud- den desires to stop the effusion of blood. Why, our own civil war had lasted tea years, and the civil war in the States of South America had lasted 15 years. Was it always the duty of England to stop the effusion of blood ? Had that always been our principle of action ? What would they have said if America, France, or Russia had attempted to aid the Sepoys in their revolt ? Would they not have told them angrily to cease from interfering ? If they would hearken to the dictates of humanity, they should try to settle the quarrel in the manner most conducive to the interests of the Anglo-Saxon race, by renouncing all partiality for either the North or the South. (Hear, hear.) A mere armistice would only be productive of increased rancour between the two sides; and if an armistice was to be proclaimed, how were the limits of each to be defined ? The North was at New Orleans, and the Southerners were in Maryland. In tervention could only end in war with the North, and that was really what was meant by the hon. member's resolution. Recognition without war would not bring even a single bale of cotton from America ; and certainly war with America would not increase the capabilities of Lancashire for maintaining her starving population. (Hear, hear,) He reminded the house that alliances to intervene always ended in misunder standings between the allies themselves, and asked if it were not possible that, as in Mexico, as also inthis matter, France might be seeking to pursue a selfish policy. (Hear, hear.) Louisiana was an ancient settlement of France. What the Emperor Napoleon again desired its possession. He did not know how that might be, but he had heard rumours to that effect. The hon. gentleman told them the South had nearly achieved its independence. Why, then, should we intervene ? We should remember to what it would expose us—invasion of Canada, stoppage of the supplies of corn, and the necessity of protecting British commerce in every corner of the world. He did not appeal to British fears, but he asked the house to remember what intervention would cost. He would rather agree with Lord Derby, and believe that the time had not arrived when it was either wise, politic, or even legitimate, to recognise the South. That was the conclusion to which he had come; he hoped it was the conclusion to which the house would also come; and in that hope he moved the amendment. (Hear, hear.) Mr. C. CLIFFORD seconded the amendment. He believed that the noble lord had proceeded to a right con clusion, though on a false ground, when he said that the Southern States were engaged in rebellion. As regarded the general question, though he felt well disposed to both sides, he could not disguise from himself that popular feel ing in this country was strongly in favour of the South, and believed that the South was making progress which would be crowned with success. (Hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER next rose and said—l am desirous, at the commencement of such remarks as I have to offer, to take a lesson first from my hon. friend the member for Sheffield, who told us in the course of his speech that he had learned to bear with the opinions of others. (Hear.) I wish to record my adhesion to that sentiment. I will go a step further, and say I think it is the duty of every man, of every member of this house in a peculiar degree, and most of all of every adviser of the Crown, in approaching this question to use his best and utmost en deavours to suppress within his breast everything like passion, to lay aside every vestige of feeling in return. Our duty is to treat this matter as a matter of dry fact, and, however passion and feeling may tend to intrude themselves into the domain of reason, to strive to hold the balance even, and deliver judgment with as much impartiality, as much abnegation of selfish prejudice and all angry emotion, as if we ware sitting on the bench of justice or in the box of the jury. It is impossible, if we look at this as a matter of feel ing, not to see that the feelings with which we must regard sowhichsthat f rom e it• are very mixed. If we take the case of the Southern States, I think there can be few who do not sympathise with a resistance as heroic as ever has been offered in the history of the world on the part of a weaker body against the overpowering and vastly superior force of numbers. But, on the other hand, if we look at the case of the South from that point of view in which it stands so intimately connected with the profession, at least, of strong adherence to slavery, a strong counter-current of feeling would arise in the mind ; and I quote this circumstance because I think that, upon the whole, we are really without excuse if, in a case so mixed, and where different considerations tend so powerfully in opposite directions—l think we should be the more without excuse if we suffered our judgment to be bewildered by strong sentiments of partisanship on the one side or the other. (Hear, he a r, an d c h eer s.) And so also with regard to the No r th. I thi n k i t i s i mposs ibl e f or a ny Englishman who justly v i ews thi s matter, w h a t ever may h ave b e en his prejudi ces aga i nst American institut i ons, not to h ave a strong fellow. f ee li ng f or t h ose w h o f orme d i n th e i r own minds exalt e d v i s i ons of the great future of the i r country, stretching thoseom en visions i si end nn s o of nowa great threatened conti continent to h with destruction. There e h heul e isin r nth e g is see revo ltse no s tr i t o ha n i ags g va e epi r neg a n ar otf ve d dceitr m sl nr o e uy r dep e at si l to e yhu g e i . f t op i r m ec lo a upa t sl e e tt i oh n oe s ufs t ne i t n dhg c eer t r oNs t ut h aon a n nrdtash that te and Ivh other, entering into and pushing on this war, even after, as it seems to us, to have passed all bounds of reason and of hope; however much there must be in their measures and their language which appear to be difficult to reconcile with the high intelligence which usually characterises them. I venture to say that I differ from my hon. and learned friend, for I think that we ought to be veryecautious as to giving British interests a prominent place l a th e argument. (Hear.) For my own part, T never have concurred with those who thought that it was a matter of high British inte rest that the old American Union should be torn into pieces. Ido not agree with the hon. and learned member when he says that the American Union had become so vast and so menacing to the world that we were in danger of dwindling beside it, or of having weakened our power of maintaining our rights. Ido not think that territorial extension, though it adds to magnitude, necessarily adds to the vigour of a State. (Hear.) I do not for a moment or any other country admit that either England France,o e r lati y were losing ground in Europe, had lost power u r nited ve SL o t r es, or were less able in comparison with the every just claim, and exercise every than heretofore to assert legitimate influence, in the face of the United States. I have always had the individual op inion, involve England was d as not so much in mere interest as in consideration of duty and honour, with regard to the Brit ish North American Colo nies, that th e b a l an ce of States of the politicsold Ameri can Union, w hi c h cause d the whole of American to turn up on th e relative streng th of slavery and Northern interests, offered a s t a t e o f things perhaps more fa vourable to us, perh a p s more likely to ensure th e continuance of peaceful relations in America, and the avoidance of all poli tical complications which might have arisen in connection with the relations between this country and our colonies — than that state of things whieh would arise in America if it were to happen that the old American Union should divide into a cluster of Northern and a cluster of Southern tates. That cluster of Northern States, having lost all connection with the slavery interests which was formerly adverse to extension northwards would have fair and strong motives to endea- your to re-establish their territorial grandeur by uniting themselves to the colonies of British North Ame rica. Whether that opinion is sound or unsound, I can- not help stating with confidence that if we were strongly to put forward the consideration of British interests in this matter, and if we were to found arguments for recognition of the South upon the plea that British interests required it, and that British interests are threatened by the great- ness of the American Union—by that very fact you stamp on every argument for recognition, on every tendency to wards recognition, on every expression of a wish for peace, "• • some character of hostility to our brethren in America. ',Hear, hear.) lam sure my hon. and learned friend will reel that I am warranted in alluding to this subject in a pointed manner, after he has declared, in connection with his motion for recognition, that he is determined to do all he can, on the ground of British interests, to prevent the rec9nstruction of the American Union, The first and broadest objection which it is my duty to take to the motion is one which I must take also to the amendment of the noble lord. Either the motion or the amendment would involve the assumption by the House of Commons of that which it is perfectly entitled to assume in point of right if it thinks fit, but which the House of Commons has not thought it expedient to assume, and which I do not think it would be expedient for it to assume—l mean the affirm ing by positive declaration in this house the course which should be pursued by the Executive Government, when it is the Executive Government alone, and not the House of Comm,ns, which could have close and private cognisance of every circumstance from day to day bearing on the con- dition of this contest, and on the position of England in re- gard to it ; and when, therefore, it is the dictum of pru dence and policy to leave in the hands of the Executive Government that direction which it claimed. There was no merit to be claimed by the Executive Government for that which it had done or omitted to do, but 1 say that set ting apart all reference to this or that question of interna tional or maritime law, which may hitherto have arisen, and looking to the general policy which has been pursued — a policy not of indifference, not of unobservance, not of blindness, but of faithful and strict neutrality up to the present moment—that policy which has been pursued by the Government of England has been a policy answer ing to the conviction and de-ires of the country. I hope 1 - e house will not be disposed to entertain either the ma tion or the amendment, which would have the effect of de termining beforehand, by rules laid down in set phrase — from which there would be no power to depart, whatever the variation of the circumstances, or however strong the dictates of expediency and right—the course which the Go- vernment is to be bound to pursue, but rather leave it to the Government to act in the same spirit as heretofore, and with that regard which it has endeavoured to show both to the justice and policy of the case, and also to the opinions and wishes of the country. (Hear.) Ido not say that the issue of this contest is, humanly speaking, in any degree doubtful ; but during the whole period that the war has lasted there has not been a single point of time on which you could lay your finger and say that at that point of time there were depending military issues of such vast import ance, and upon which so much depended with regard to the position of the parties and the wishes and intentions of the belligerent Powers. That the particular moment at which the hon. gentleman has made his motion is in some respects unfortunate, I think will not be denied; but there is another thing for which the hon. gentleman is to be held responsible, and that is the speech that he has made. The hon. gentleman came before them like a lamb, ready to offer himself a sacrifice to the storm of obloquy he anticipated. I rather pity a gentleman who takes up such a cause with such a prospect ; but that is a trifling matter compared with the importance of the rest of his speech. The hon. gentleman himself is too candid to deny that his speech ex hibited strong and almost passionate partisanship of the South. That of itself would render the course he advo cated imprudent. It is no easy matter to separate inter vention from recognition; but, if the former were to be at tempted, any strong Expression of partisanship would prevent its receiving any attention. The honourable gentleman went a little further, and urged upon us our duty to the men of Lancashire. Well, what does that mean ? Recognition would not relieve the men of Lancashire, nor necessarily bring a single bale more cotton into England. " These men," says the hon. gentleman, " have been patient hitherto, hut they know that it is the Government, and the Government alone, that keeps from them that by which they earn their bread." The meaning of that is, that if his motion were adopted there would be an immediate and abundant supply of cotton. I cannot agree either with his motion or his reasons. At the same time I admit it to be impossible for the Government to feel indifferent to the grave question before us. I believe it the all but universal feeling in this country that this war should cease. (Hear, hear.) Never was there a war of a more hopeless and deplorable character, whether measured by the terrible absorption of human lives—not counted in hundreds, but in hundreds of thousands—or by the la mentable waste and destruction of treasure and property. (Hear, hear.) What, too, will it bring in the future ? There will be a dreadful bitterness between the black and the white in the North. There is also the probably break down of the old landmarks between right and power in the North. (Hear, hear.) I say again that we anxiously desire to see the end of this war. I believe this country could never be justly charged with any unworthy jealousy of the prosperity of America ; but if there ever were any amongst us who, to indulge in such a feeling, closed their eyes against all that was good and full of promise for man kind, they must now feel compassion and concern surpass ing every other sentiment. Even the sorrow we feel for our unemployed operatives must be swallowed up in that grief we feel for the fearful price the Americans are paying for this awful war, and the sacrifice they are making of their blood, their treasure, and their political institutions. (Hear, hear.) We believe here that no war is just where the object is unattainable; we believe also that the restora tion of the Union is not possible, and, therefore, that the war is unjustifiable ; we believe also that the emancipation of the negro race will never be effected by force and bloodshed ; but did the hon. gentleman think on that account that we ought to adopt his motion ? I have no doubt he believes it would shorten the war. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman says " Hear," but what is it to be ? Recognition with intervention, or without? I cannot agree that the war of 1778 broke out in consequence of the recog nition of America by the French. The terms of the message from the King to the House of Commons were, that in con sequence of the French having concluded a treaty of com merce with the States of America the King had desired the withdrawal of the French Ambassador. The error made by the noble lord (Lord R. Montagu) is very common, I know, but all the documents of the period show that it is totally untrue. The right hon. gentleman then referred to the docu ments, and read extracts from the Annual Register. Inter vention so usually accompanies recognition, that it requires great caution, in proposing the latter, not to be supposed to include the former. Notwithstanding that America is c.en stantly declaring her independence of Europe, I believe the well-ascertained voice of Europe would have great weight with her ; but I do not think that France and England join ing together to demand the recognition of the South could be confidently said to represent the voice of Europe. (Hear, hear.) No act of interference, arbitration, recognition, or anything else, will ever have any effect unless we show the Americans that we enter upon it free from all partial views. An unasked intervention just now would be considered an interference with the private affairs of America, and would bring up that united spirit of defensive power, the absence of which up to this time has so strengthened the hands of the South ; for, whatever other errors the American descen dants of our ancestors may have committed, it cannot be said that they have not shown great, signal, and even splendid personal courage. The responsibility of producing such an effect is in my opinion a very heavy responsibility, and we must look in some sense to the immense difficulty of taking steps in a matter of this kind, and we must feel that so long as doubt exists that doubt ought to be ruled on the side of safety. (Hear, hear.) We feel, with the hon. gentleman the member for Sheffield, it is time this war should end ; but I confess I have more faith in the gentle action of public opinion, as it grows and is gradually matured in Europe, than I have in diplomatic acts that may tend to assume the appearance of undue interference in American affairs, and especially of that coming from quarters which may justly be suspected of selfish motives. (Hear.) It is not from indifference, or from any belief that there is an adequate and ample object on the part of the North in pursuing this war, that I for one venture to deprecate in the strongest terms the adoption of the motion before the house ; but do not let us run the risk of making worse that which is al ready sufficiently horrible—(hear)—and of adding to that which now exists other feuds and other follies, that might carry a wider desolation over the face of the world. Mr. FORSTER seconded the amendment of the noble lord, because he thought the motion of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield was such a departure from the policy of neutrality as ought to be protested against by that house. He was glad the question had at last come before the house, because the time had arrived when it should be known whether they intended at any time to interfere in this war, or whether they would now interfere by a premature recog nitionbi etet of n sinuc o f which oa t e h i c e plt aeec So tfrs u e y e, breach war interfere eo hh . i Recognition eaac toaunteought aho hfet theascendancyntnoaentincreasebrnen eparrti f international of el o nha u re would the prepared lawthewtooert enforceaanticipatehese raskediincomeo g andt the ovwutx eoro, t bu d rhe. re cognition. Northern -- f do. egntone S s s t forasraHatthee they ay e s kw e e e ed s r u et s hpe b r e e / ph / i ao ruiefsdeandthe ot se it was n to u take notice of they f for chose causethe unless they wished t ry use w le h ez eth fo er r them With regard to th e s t a t emen t t h at had been made by the honourable and le ar ned mem b er f or Sheffield with reference to his intervi e w with th e E mperor of the French, Baron Gros had, s ince th e s t a t ement was made in that house, gone to the Forei gn S ecre t ary , an d assured him that the hon. and learned membe r was m i s t a k en in what passed, and that there was no found a ti on f or hi s statement. (Cheers.) It might possibly be that the h on . and learned member had been instructed by the Emperor of the French to sound the British Parliament, and ascertain if we were willing to follow in the lead of the French Em peror. (Hear.) lie (Mr. Forster) considered we had had enough of French alliance for intervention in cases likely to lead to war, and he instanced the Crimean war and the affairs of China ; but, happily, we had got out of the Mexi can intervention. Whatever might be the feeling of this country with regard to Poland, he looked with fear and suspicion whether danger might not arise with regard to his kind efforts for Poland. They had heard a great deal about drifting into war, and the best way to prevent it was by not allowing the hon. and learned member for Sheffield to put the ship England under the guidance of w foreign pilot. (Cheers.) Intervention, or the attempts at Intervention, had always weakened the peace party in America. Therpro- position of an armistice had the effect of passing the Con scription Bill, and the publication of Lord LyonS despatch again strengthened the war party. A great deal depended on what they did whether power was given to President Lincoln and those wb o encouraged the war, or to the peace party. There was risk of war in such a resolution as that before them; and what kind of war? The war was to be dreaded because of danger to Canada, because of danger to the commerce of the country, and because of danger for the food of the people; but, above all, it should be unpopular because it would be a war against our own kinsmen, and in support of slavery. (Hear.) He owned he felt strongly upon the question, for he was one of those brought up from his childhood in the hyprocritical cant alluded to by the hon. and learned member fur Sheffield. (Ironical cries of Hear, hear.) He denied that the question of free trade had anything to do with the origin of the struggle. The State of Louisiana, which might be said to be foremost in the contest on the side of the South, desired protection for its sugar plantations; while none had fought harder to maintain the Union than the free trade states of the North-west. In truth, the contest was for slavery, and the boundaries of the Secessionist territory were identical with the boundaries of the slaveholding districts, He was not going to justify the action of the North with respect to slavery ; on the contrary, his hon. friend behind him (Mr Bright), who had characteriszd him as a fanatic on the question, knew that he never endorsed the views of his hon. friend on the subject of America. Nay, he even went further, and maintained that this terrible war was the dreadful lesson which both North and South had to endure for what they had done in respect of slavery. But the truth was, the North had to choose between slavery and the exist- ence of the mother country ; and, moved by a patriotic feel ing, the old love of slavery was renounced for the sake of the great Union. The hon. member then read an extract from the Richmond Examiner of the 28th May, to prove that the leading object of the Confederate struggle was the mainten ance of slavery, and it was mere trifling to say that if the Southerners succeeded in the war they would not carry out the objects for which they went to war. As to the past his tory of the 'Union, he had no hesitation in asserting that those acts of which England had most reason to complain were mainly directed by the men of the South. He looked to the capture of Vicksburg with the greatest interest, for ne believed the peace and freedom of America depended on that event. If Vicksburg was taken, that was an end of all prospect of extending slavery across the Mississippi ; and that object accomplished, the men of the .North, seeing the impossibility of keeping so vast a territory in subjugation, would draw a cordon round the slavehelding States, and leave it to themselves to settle the question as best they might. He confessed he dreaded a war with America, not mainly because of the suffering, which it would entail upon our people, but because of the results of our success. There was not a despot in the world who would not rejoice over such a contest ; and where was the Englishman so degene- I ate as to regard that result with indifference ? Such a war would be selfish and unprovoked', and it would be antago nistic to the spirit of true religion and morality. (Hear.) Lord R. CECIL, although not often able to agree with the hon. member for Birmingham, was able entirely to con cur with him when he described the hon. member for Brad- ford (Mr. Forster) as a fanatic on the question of slavery He confessed he had never been able to understand the ream _ _ soning of the anti-slavery party in this country. The hon. member who had just sat down did not profess to hope tha the North could conquer the South, although the hon.mem. ber for Birmingham did hope to exterminate slavery by tha means, The speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was most remarkable, because it was the first exposition of the policy of the Government; but the question which pressed upon him was why, after conceding every one of the positions maintained by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield, the right hon, gentleman had not assented to the motion. The suffering of their own people was their title to interfere, and France and England had but to pro nounce the word to contribute enormously to the re-estab lishment of peace. He did not know whether it occurred to the house, but it struck him as most remarkable, that the Chancellor of the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made no reference to the statements of his hon. and learned friend as to the policy of the Emperor of the French. The Go vernment might rest assured that the matter would not be passed over. (Hear.) The house should have an answer to the statement of the hon. and learned gentleman. (Con servative cheers.) They knew that the Emperor of the French, whatever else he might be, was a prudent and sagacious sovereign, and he would not have adopted this strange and extraordinary course of communicating directly with the House of Commons—(cheers and counter-cheers) —if he had not been driven to it by the treatment he had received from the Foreign-office. (Conservative cheers, with cries of "Oh, oh," from the Liberal benches.) He believed the public would not be eatisfied unless the state ment to which he had referred received a full and ample explanation, or until the Government gave an adequate reason why they did not act upon the frank and open offer of the Emperor of the French, and justified themselves be fore the country for following a policy which had led to so much misery. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BRIGHT—Sir, I cannot attempt to follow the noble lord into the elaborate attack which he has made upon the Treasury bench, for two reasons—that he did not appear to me very much to understand what it was he was charging them with, and because I am not in the habit of defending gentlemen who sit on that bench. (Laughter.) I shall ad dress myself to the question before the house, and which I think the house generally feels to be very important, although I am quite satisfied that they do not feel it to be practical, or one on which they will be disp ieed to take the course recommended by the hon. and learned gentleman who has introduced the resolution. We sometimes are en gaged in discussions, and have great difficulty to know what they are about; but the hon. and learned gentleman left us in no kind of doubt what he meant this should be. He proposes a resolution which, under certain circumstances and addressed to certain parties, might not be offensive or injurious, but which, taken in connection with his character, and the speech he has made to-night, and the speeches he has recently made elsewhere on this subject, leads to the same conclusion as if he had proposed an address to the Crown, inviting the Queen to declare war against the United States of Americ a. (Cheers.) The Chancellor of the Exche quer, who is supposed not to be very zealous in the parti cular line of opinion which he has adopted (laughter)—ad dressed the hoe, and learned gentleman in the smoothest language possible; but still he was obliged to charge him with the hitter hostility of the tone of his speech. (Hear, hear.) He told us to-night that the American people and the American Government were overbearing; but he did not tell us that the Government of the United States during his lifetime had been conducted by his friends of the South. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned gentleman then said, " The North will never be our friends. Of the South you can make friends. They are Englishmen—they are not the scum and refuse of Europe." Mr. ROEBUCK explained that he had said "that the South were Englishmen, but that the army of the North was composed of the scum of Europe.' Mr. BRIGHT—I take the hon. and learned gentleman's explanation, with this observation, that there is not in the paragraph, and I think not in the speech, a single word about "army." But I will take it for granted that, if the hon. and learned gentleman said what I have read, he greatly regrets it. (Mr. Roebuck dissented.) The hon, and learned gentlemsn, in his resolution, speaks of other Powers, but ho has unceremoniously got rid of all the Powers but France. He comes here with the story of an interview with a man whom he describes as the great ruler of France, He states to us a conversation, and asks us to accept the lead of the Emperor of the French on what I will undertake to call one of the gravest questions ever sub mitted to the British Parliament. (Hear.) But it is not long since the hon. and learned gentleman ho:d very dif ferent opinions. (Hear.) I recollect in this house, only about three years ago, the hon. and learned gentleman said, " I hope I may be permitted to express my opinion, even though it should affect so great a potentate as the Emperor of the French," (Laughter.) On another occasion he said, though not in this house, " I am still of opinion that we have nothing but enmity and bad faith to look for from the Emperor of the French ;" and he went on to say that though he had been laughed at, he still adopted the patriotic cha racter of " Tear'em,'' and was still at his post. (Great laughter.) When the hon. and learned gentleman came back from his expedition to Cherbourg, does the house recollect the language which he used on that occasion ?—which, it it expresses the sentiments he felt, I think he might have been content to have withheld. Referring to the salutation between the Emperor of the French and the Queen of these kingdoms, he said, " When I saw his perjured lips touch that hallowed cheek"—and now the hon. and learned gen. tleman has been to Paris, introduces there by the hon. member for Sunderland- -(laughter)—and he has become, as it were, in the palace of the French Emperor, a co conspirator with him in dragging this country into a policy which I maintain is as hostile to its interests as it would be degrading to its honour. (Hear.) Then the high contracting parties, I suspect, are not agreed, because I will say this, in justice to the French Emperor, that there has never come to him, in public or from his Ministers, nor has anything been written, that has been tinctured in the smallest degree with that bitter hostility which the hon. and learned gentleman has constantly exhibited to the United States of America and their people. France, if not wise in this matter, is at least not unfriendly. The hon. and learned gentleman, in my opinion, I am sure is not unfriendly, and I believe he is not wise. (Laughter.) But on that subject, without speaking disrespectfully of that great potentate, who has taken the hon. and learned gentleman into his con fidence, I should say that the Emperor runs the risk of be ing far too much represented in this house. We have got two, I will not call them "envoys extracrdinary," but " most extraordinary." (Laughter.) If report speaks true, even they are not all. Why, the hon. member for King's County (Mr. P. Hennessy) came back the other day from Paris, and there were whispers about that he had seen the great ruler of France, and that he could tell everybody in the most confidential way—(laughter)—that the Emperor was ready to make a spring at Russia for the sake of de livering Poland, and only waited for a word from the Prime Minister of England. I do not understand the policy of the Emperor as thane new Ministers declare it. Because one gentleman says he is nbout to mhke war with Russia, an other that he is about t ) make war with America. lam dispo,ed to look at what he is already doing; and I find that he is holding Rome against the opinion of all Italy— (Hear, hear, and No from Sir G. Bowyer)—that he is con quering Mexico by painful steps, every footprint marked by devastation arid blood ; that he Ia warring—in some desul tory manner, it /nay be—in China, and, for aught I know, may be about to do it In Japan. Well, I say, that if we were to add Ittssia and the United States, and that he is to engage in this dismemberment of the greatest Eastern empire and the great Western republic, he has a greater ambition than Louis XIV., and greater daring than the first of his name ; and that, if be grasps these great transactions, his dynasty will fall and be buried in the ruins of his own am bition. I can only say one word on the question to which the noble lord the member for Huntingdon has devoted so much attention; but we have not heard all the story from Paris; and, what is not remarkable, seeing that the secret was confided to two person=, we have not heard it correctly. (Hear, hear.) I saw the hon. member for Sunderland in his place ; his face under went divers remarkable contortions during the speech of the hen, and /earned member for Shef field, and I felt perfectly satisfied that he did not agree in what his colleague was saying. It now turns out that there is a written document which gives a memorandum of what was set down; and I suppose, some time before this discus sion ends, we shall have it, and see how far the two hon. gentlemen are agreed. I think the question of so much in terest, that, after hearing one story, we ought to hear the other. Leaving that which might be considered personal, I come to the proposition which the hon. and learned gen tleman has submitted to the house, and which ho submitted to his Sheffield constituents on the 27th of May, put into these words, and in these words I am willing to receive it —" What I have to consider is what is for the interest of England, and what ie for her interest I believe to be for the interests of the world." The hon. member said the honour of England had something to do with her interests, and that the whole case of the hon. and learned member for Sheffield rested on a miserable jealousy, or what might be termed a base fear—a fear as groundless as any other panic by which the hon. and learned gentleman was from time to time seized. He pointed out the groundlessness of the fear that the United tAates as a confederation would join toge- Cher for aggression against England or any other country of Europe, and said the hon. and learned gentleman, as an experienced member of the House of Commons, ought to consider welt before he spread abroad these needless alarms amongst the people. For such fear and miserable jealousy he would break up a friendly nation, formed as it were of our own flesh and blood, depart from all the usages of nations, and throw the weight of England into the scale in favour of the curse of slavery. With regard to the usages of nati( ns, no one could read the recent pamphlet by F. W. Gibbs without being convinced that England had three kinds of interest in this question, viz., the commercial, the political, and the moral. With regard to the supply of cotton, very few men were more interested in it than him self, and not more than three or four had studied the ques tion more deeply then he had done. The point he was going to argue was that the war now going on was more likely to abolish slavery than anything else in the world. The supply of cotton must at all times be uncertain under the slave system. The house thought so some years ago, because they ordered a commission upon the subject, and but for a very silly Minister they would have sent a commission to India. Would it not be conceded that it would be better that the cotton cultivation should be by free than by slave labour ? The slave States were not half cultivated. There was not more than 10,000 square miles of cotton planted, and they only sent cotton over at a rate of 100,000 bales in crease per annum, whereas the manufacturers wanted double that quantity. Tho reason was that where there were slaves no other labourers went. None of the emigrants who landed at the Northern ports ever went South. The difficulty now with a Southern planter was to buy his labour, for he had not to hire his hands only, but to buy them, and to buy 200 negroes would cost £20,000. That was but one item, so that but few men could enter into the trade. Ile believed that in less than 10 years after freedom had been declared the production of cotton would be doubled. Upon the political part of the question, he did not mean to say that the South might not conquer the North, and join that large party in the North which some persons called the peace party, but which was in reality not a peace party at all, and so form one large united king dom. He hoped it would not be so; and, as he believed in the moral government of the world, he did not believe it would be so. But should that happen, America, with her mighty navy and almost unlimited power, might offer to drive England out of Canada, France out of Mexico, and out of the islands of the West Indies all those who might be interested in them. They would thus have a State built up of war and slavery, instead of that other State founded upon an instructed people, upon general freedom, and upon morality in the Government. (Much laughter.) Much had been said about the carnage of the war ; but adding the French to the English, and those to the Russians, Sardi nians, and Turks, there were more killed in the Crimean war than in the civil war in the States. In that war the poor victims were sent 3,000 miles away to fight for a worth less and undefinable cause, and when he spoke of the car nage then, he had been charged with maudlin sentimen tality. In America, however, every man knew well for what he enlisted, and for what he was sent to fight. (Hear, and a laugh.) Every year before the war broke out 150,000 used to be born to the badge and doom of slavery—born (according to laws framed by the devilish cupidity of man) to the lash, the chain, and the branding-iron. He did not know whether hon. members felt as he did, but when he went home and found six little children all playing on his hearth—(laughter)—it called up the most holy joys that be longed to the memory of the past, or the hopes of the future. (Hear, hear.) If when the hand of death took one of those household treasures their hearts were filled with sorrow, what must be the aggregate of the multiplied grief amongst the parents of those 150,000 poor infants born and brought up amongst these " gentlemen" they heard so much of—" the chivalry of the South"—those men whom we were advised to make our friends? (Hear, hear.) Did the house so easily forget the countless 5 genies that be longed to the thousand horrors of the slave system before the commencement of the war? (Hear.) It was all very well to say that slavery was not so bad as it had been represented ; but the brother of the honourable mem ber for South Durham told him not long ago of one woman in South Carolina, whose every child to the num ber of ten had been taken away frcm her and sold as soon as it had reached a marketable age. (Rear, hear.) He had not heard that night anything about President Lincoln's proclamation, but we were not in a position to deny its le gality, As we only recognised in America one nation, one president, and one law, that proclamation was a legal do cument, and the slaves of the South by it were now virtually free. For upwards of two years the North had contended for its existence and human freedom, and it was the first country that had come forth as the defender of freedom and equality. Yet the hon. and learned member for Shef field wished to throw the hostility of Europe into the scale against them. The effect of a war would be to ruin our com merce, and at its termination that great and free people, the most instructed—(oh, oh)—in the world, and the most wealthy, would have left in their hearts wounds that pro bably centuries would not heal, and which the posterity of some of those who heard him might look back upon with amazement and lamentation at the course that had been taken by the hon. member for Sheffield and those who sup ported him. He hoped the house would not assist his coun trymen to lift their hands or voices in aid of the most stu pendous act of guilt which history had recorded in the annals of any race. (Cheers, and Oh, oh.) Mr, P. WINDHAM supported the recognition of the Southern States, and concluded by moving the adjournment of the debate. (Cries of " Adjourn," and for Mr. Lindsay.) Sir G. GREY, after referring to the statement made by the hon. member for Sheffield, said ho was unable to give any explanation of it, and all he could say was that what the hon. member had stated was at total variance with the information her Majesty's Government possessed of what had passed between the two Governments ; and, further, Baron Gros had called upon Lord Russell, and had informed him that he had received no such instructions from the Emperor as had been stated by the hon. and learned member for Sheffield. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend the Under-Secretary did not know what had oc curred when he answered the question in the House of Commons that no such information had been received. But there certainly was ne breach of confidence in impart ing to Mr, Seward the communication from the Emperor of the French. All that happened with reference to the sub ject he could not precisely say, but this he knew, that the receipt of the despatch was no secret at the time. It was discussed in the newspapers, and it was answered in cour teous terms, of which the Emperor had no reason to com plain, and of which he never had complained. No doubt the despatch of Lord Russell was communicated to Lora Lyons, that he might be fully possessed of what was pass ing in Europe with respect to the contest in America ; but so far from there being any secrecy with regard to it, why, the very first day of the meeting of Parliament it was laid upon the table of the house. He must say Lord Lyons was utterly incapable of the conduct imputed to him, and that throughout he had acted in a manner even to justify the high esteem of the American Government. Lord R. CECIL said he had no intention of imputing to Lard Lyons any act that was contrary to official duty. He was merely repeating the statement made by the hon. mem ber for Sheffield in the early part of the evening, but he had no desire to charge him with having broken any order from the Foreign Office. No doubt, whatever Lord Lyons did was in strict conformity with the orders addressed to him by the Foreign Office. After some observations from Mr. NE WDEGATE in strong antagonism to the resolution, The debate was then adjourned. In reply to Mr. ROEBUCK and Lord R. MONTAGU, Sir G. GREY was uLderstood to say that the discussion could be renewed on Monday; but Mr. ROEBUCK said he would bring it on in going into committee of supply on Thursday. POISONING BILL. Lord RAYNHAM having moved the second reading of this bill, Sir G. GREY moved that the second reading be post poned until that day three months, which was carried without a division. CORPORAL .PUNISHMENT IN SCHOOLS BILL. Viseount itAYNHAM moved the second reading of this bill, and stated that its object was to put a check on cruel schoolmasters, who like Mr. Squeers--(laughter)— permanently improved children by savage punishments. The bill provided that only a birch rod should be used fo r the purposes of chastisement. (Laughter.) Sir G. GREY opposed the bill, and urged that the low already reached persons who, having the charge of children, were guilty of excessive punishment. Lord H. TREVOR moved that the bill be road a third time that day three months. After some conversation, The motion was carried without a division, and the bill lost. The Metropolitan Main Drainage Guarantee of Reply inent of Money) Bill, the object of which is to guarantee £1,200,000 in addition to the £3,000,000 already guaranteed, was passed through committee. The Public Works (Manufacturing Districts) Bill was read a third time and passed. The Poor Law Board Continuance Bill was read a second time. The Lords' Amendments to the Prison Ministers Bill were agreed to, with a few exceptions. The Loan Societies Bill was read a secor d time. The Howth Harbour, Newcastle-upon-Tyne (St. Mary Magdalen Hospital), the Removal of Irish Poor, the Sa vings Banks Act Amendment, and the Courts of the Church of Scotland Bills were read a third time and passed, The other orders were disposed of, and the house ad journed at ten minutes past two o'clock. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. CARLISLE EACES.-rUESDA.Y. The Corby Ca3tle Stakes of 5 sovs each, with 30 added; weight for age ; penalties and allowances. T.Y.C. 4 subs. Mr. J. Osborne's The Little Stag, 2 yrs, Est 121 b (Carroll) w.o. A Maiden Plate of 40 sovs each; weight for age ; with selling and other allowances. T.Y.C. Mr. winteringham's Lady Braybrooke, 2 yrs , sst 121 b (30) (Carroll) 1 Mr, J. Ridley's Hospitality, 2 yrs, sst 121 b (£3O) Mr. Miller's Annabella, 5 yrs, Bst 131 b (£2O) (J. Snowden) 3 Mr. Dryden's Forest Queen, 5 yrs, 78t 51b (£4O) (Speight) 4 Mr, Blamire's Marksman, aged, 9st llb (£3O) (W. Gamble) 5 Mr. R. Prank's Dick Swiveller, aged, 9st llb (£3O) (Withington) 0 Betting-6 to 4 agst Lady Braybrooke, sto 2 agst Hos pitality filly. Won by a head ; a length between second and third ; a moderate fourth. Dick Swiveller was left at the post. The Cumberland Plate (Handicap) of 100 soya, added to a Sweepstakes of 10 sovs each, 5 ft, and 3 only if declared ; winners extra; second to save his stake. Twice round and a distance. 32 subs. 14 declared. Mr. Masterman's Honest John (late the Robber), 3 yrs, sst Blb (J. Grimshaw) 1 Mr, Jaques's Trump Queen, 3 yrs, sst 81b .... (Carroll) 2 Mr. T. 6. Dawson na. The Fawn, 3 yrs, .sst 71b (car. sst 81b Mr. J. Scott na. Luna, 3 yrs, sst 71b J Marson) 4 Mr. W. I' Anson's Caller Ou, 5 yrs, 9st 71b (inc. 9113 ) ex.) ( inc. 5 Betting—Even on Caller Ou, 6 to 4 agst Honest John, 6 to 1 agst any other. Won by a length; two lengths between second and. third ; three lengths bet ween third and fourth. The Grand Stand Handicap of 50 sovs, for all ages ; win ners extra. Once round. Mr. Scott na Teddy, 5 yrs, 7st 111 b (in. 51b extra) (Speight) 1 Mr. Jaques's Trump Queen, 3 yrs, Est 41b...... (Noble) 2 Mr. W. Cowen's Giltnook, 4 yrs, Est 121 b (Carroll) 3 Mr. Fearon's Interest, 6 yrs, 7st 121 b Betting—Even on Teddy, 6 to 4 agst Trump Queen, 5 to 1 agst any other. Won by three lengths ; a bad third. The Holm Hill Stakes of 3 sovs each, with 30 added, weight for age; with selling, &c., allowances; penalties. Three-quarters of a mile. Mr. Winteringham's Lady Braybrooke, 2 yrs, sst 121 b (£3O) (J. Marson) 1 Mr. Robinson's Prairie Flower, 3 yrs, 7st 91b (E3O) (J. Noble) 2 Mr. J. Ridley's Bolton's dam filly, 2 yrs, sst 71b (£3O) (Carroll) 3 ' Wallachia, Barbara Allen, and Maid of Chesterfield also ran. Betting-5 to 4 agst Prairie Flower, 9, to 4 agst Lady Braybrooke. Won by a neck, a bad third, The winner was bought by Mr. Dalaell for 63 guineas. RACING FIXTU: Ju: Worcester Summer 2 Newmarket July .. 7 Liverpool .. 13 Abingdon 14 Hungerford l6 Pontefract 16 Stamford ..16 Aul Brighten Brighton Club 6 Lewes , Wolverhampton Reading Wenlock l4 SEPTI Devon and Exeter 1 Derby Summer Weymouth Kings Lynn.. 3 Warwick Leicester lO Doncaster l5 OCT , Coventry Bedford Caledonian Hunt Newmarket S. O a ..12 Novl Worcester 3 Bellewstown Down Royal Corporation 21 [RES FOR 1863. AUG Heath.... Wicklow ll Winchester ......21 Nottingham . . 21 Southampton. ......22 Cambridge .. • 23 Knutsford Hartlepool ..... Goodwood 22 York August .....18 Plymouth Egham 1 Stockton 25 Oxford Lichfield :MBER. SEP Curragh ,,, 1 Carlow Listowel 2l OCT, Wordsley Brecon ....21 Richmond ..... ...22 Monmouth Manchester Autumn. 25 Newmarket Ist Oct. 29 Edinburgh, &c. Club 30 Lincoln Autumn ..20 Kelso 21 Gloucester 22 Newmarket Houghton 26 TIBER. Shrewsbury Autumn....l6 r LT. j Tramore •••• 30 Curragh rUST. i Londonderry :BEE. Limerick Jenkintown Park 23 13E11.. 20 COUNTRY MARKETS. -4 - LEEDS—TUESDAY. To-day there was a moderate supply of wheat, which met a limited demand, at rates nominally the same as the previous week. --- MARKET HARBOROUGH—TUESDAY. White wheat, 49s to 51s; red, 40s to 47s per 36 stone. Malting barley at —s to —s per qr. ; grinding, 30s to 358 per 30 at, Oats, old, 26s to 275; new, 21s to 28s per 21 st. ; beans, 37s to 43s per qr. LIVERPOOL-TUESDAY. At this day's market there was a fair attendance of the town and country trade, and a slight improvement in the demand. Wheat met with a moderate consumptive demand at a trifle under Friday's prices, or 2d per 1001 b lower than this day week; the top price of American winter red being 9s 9d per 100 lb. Flour was in a limited request, and, ex capt fresh parcels, difficult to move. Oats and oatmeal were without change in value, and the sale slow. Barley and peas remained without alteration, but Egyptian beans were again lower, prime new Sardi being obtainable at 22s 6d per 4801 b. Indian corn was firmly held at 27s for mixed, other wise a large business might have been done, as there were plenty of orders in the market at a trifle under; white WSLI firm at 29s 6d to 30s 6d per 4801 b. BRISTOL-TUESDAY. At our market to-day, under the influence of very find weather, the sale of wheat was almost suspended, but there was more inquiry for feeding stuff, at fully former rates. MELTON MOWBRAY-TUESDAY. The following were the currencies :—New white wheat, 4Ss Od to 53s Od; new red, 42s Od to 46s per 36 stone; beans, 37s to 43s for old ; new sorts, 35s to 38s per 38 at. ; barley, —s to —s for malting, and 28s to 31s per qr. for grinding; new oats, 22s to 26s Od per 24 stone. Births. MIDDLETON.—On the 28th ult., at 2, Queen-street, May. fair, the wife of Charles M. Middleton, Esq., of a son. OLIVER.—On the 29th ult., at 39, Gower-street, the wife of Harry Oliver, Esq., of a son. Powys.—On the 28th ult., at 30, Norfolk-square, Hyde park, 'W., the wife of Lieut.-Colonel the Hon. Charles Powys, of a son. Marriages. BURROW—WATKIN.-011 the 29th ult., at St. George's, Landudno, the Rev. H H. Burrow, of Severn Stoke, Worcestershire, to Jane, eldest daughter of the late Mr, W..Watkin, of Leamington. . WILSON—YOUNG.—On the 29th ult., at Hoaton, Freelk, Wilson, Esq., of Mason's Avenue, Basinghall-street, to Sarah, eldest daughter of the late Mr. John Young, of Faringdon. Deaths. KELLY.—On the 27th ult., at Rosherville, Kent, Major. General Thomas Kelly, K.C., aged 87. MARTINEAU.— On the 29th ult., at 32, Hyde park-gar dens, Joseph Martineau, Eeq , of Basing-park, Hamp shire, aged 78. MIDDLETON.—On the 29th ult., at 2, Queen-street, May fair, Marmaduke, infant son of Charles M. Middleton, Esq. NEWTON.—On the 29th ult., at Carisbrook Villa, Layton, R. T. Newton, Esq., late of Finsbury. NYE.—On the 28th inst., Mr, Edmund Nye, of Mount ..., ....... ....... ___ . - - ----- Ephraim, Tunbridge-wells, aged 66. - PEILE.—On the 28th ult., at 25, Clarendon-gardens, Maida hill, Solomon Peile, Esq., late of 5, Idol-lane, Tower street, aged 69. London : Printed and Published by WILLIAM ANDREWS, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at THE SUN Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in the County of hitddleaex,—WeUesday, July 1, 1863 [UST. IBER. ~. h 7 Aa ve fa' thi