The Sun. — London, England, 1833-02-07 00:00:00

decd bewas confident, that he should he able to propose to t he House a measure which should at once be safe and satis factory. RESUMED DEBATE ON THE ADDRESS. The Order of the Day was then read for the r esumption of the debate on the address. The SPEAKER read the address, and the amendment proposed by Mr. O'Connell. Mr. E. L. BULWER said he rose under feelings of some embarrassment, to express his opinions on certain parts of the proposed address to his Majesty. He did not entirely agree with the motion of the Learned Member for Dublin-at tnotion for a Committee on the whole speech old Wdt 'Sufficiently mark the difference between one parr sr that speech and another ; at the same time, he could not persuade himself to give unqualified approbation to the address moved by the Noble Lord; there might be points relating to the affairs of this country, which, he agreed with the Hon. Member for Knaresborougli, who spoke last night, in thinking it would have been desirable to have alluded to in the speech from the Crown, such as the condition of the operative classes, and he must add, the long-delayed revision of the poor law:: ; hut he knew that the questions that were alluded to, such as the Church Reform, and the Charters of the Bank and the East India Company, pressed for immediate attention, and if adjusted to the satisfaction of the country, they would be no ordinary benefit to reap in one session. He was c intented, therefore, with those parts of his Majesty's speech which related to England. As to foreign affairs, he concurred cheerfully in the correspondent parts of the a ldress. But when he came to that part of the address which related to Ireland, he felt all his satisfaction coun terbalanced by surprise and regret. In that part of his Majesty's speech, he thought he heard the same ominous voice which, in Lancashire, declared that Reform should be final in England, now declaring that abuse should be permanent in Ireland. What says the speech ? Mark the distinction ; that in England " the public peace has Iwo preserved—that in Ireland the spirit of insubordina kion and violence has arisen to a fearful height." But why is there this eliterence ? Why is there good order in England, Where, two yews ago, half the agricultural po pulation was in arms ? Because in England you have go verned by conciliation and firmness. And why is there insubordination in Ireland ? Because in Ireland you have governed 'oy menaces and weakness. And how are you g^i.7.4 to remedy this insubordination ? By a repetition of the same causes—by a continuance of the same me- States and the same weakness. Sir, when the Right lion. Gentleman, the Secretary for Ireland, attempted to turn aside the effect of the Member for Dublin's illustration from history, by asking whether he meant to saddle the uffeaces of Henry the Eighth upon the present Govern ment, he perverted the obvious meaning of that Ho nourable Member ; what he meant was this—to prove that this policy of extraordinary powers and addi tional coercion was nothing new—to prove that it had been tried for centuries, and fund wanting—to prove that it had, against its feasibility, the experience of 700 years. And, why is it that these extraordinary powers have not been practicable ? and why is it that, with so much vio lence, the laws have such little strength? lat the Right Ilion. Secretary ask the Hon. Member for Leeds. He tell him, as be told some Member in the last Perna 'talent, why we could not put down the Birmingham Union, and why we could not put down the people themselves. " Because (he said) you cannot govern a gallant nation by the laws of the quarter sessions; because it is in vain, though you have law on your side, if you have the people against you ; because there is only one power that makes the law strong, and that is, the consent—the public opinion, of the people for whom the law is made." And is this the power fur which the Right Hon. Secretary would apply? That would be indeed an extraordinary power for Ireland. No, he does not ask you for the power to propitiate opinion, but still more to revolt it. Sir, the Right Hon. Secretary confesses that he has al ready laws sufficient to put down insurrectionary meet ings of every description. What more does he require? He requires a law which shall make those laws suffice. And does not the Right Hon. Gentleman know that no law of itself will make law suffice ?—that to make law of fee tual there is but one mode ; and that is, to make the people, and not the police, co-operate cheerfully to .carry it into effect ? This is a principle that all Statesmen, from the oldest times, have laid down. It was on this principle that a Noble Lord in his Majesty's Government is presumed to have said, that in order to put down sedition, ynu must do— what? Put down the grievance ! Why is this principle -applicable to England, and not applicable also to Ireland ? It was on this principle, too, that the Hon. Member for Leeds, whom I have already quoted, whom I shall quote again more literally, made use of these words on the third reading of the English, Reform Bill :—" That discontent which the great body of the people think they have rea son to entertain cannot be put down by penal restrictions. Measures of coercion and severity have failed former Go.. oasersoents—they failed Cromwell—they failed James 11. si - gainst the Bishops, and Pitt against Horne Tooke—they 'failed Lord Castlereagh—and they will fail every Govern ment which shall attempt to smother the voice of the people of England without redressing their grievances." Sir, for England read Ireland ! Is not what is applicable to one people applicable to another? Where there are extraordinary grievances, the only extraordinary power you should ask for is that of immediate redress. " Oh, but (stays the Right Hon. Gentleman) do not expect that we shall not redress the grievances. We intend it." But when ? how? in what degree? to what extent? The very words of the Right Hon. Gentleman have something fearful in them to the ear of Ireland. fie speaks of de . lay ; he tells us grievances cannot be redressed in a day; vet does he expect that crime, the result of those griev ances, can be extinguished in a shorter time. Sir, crime is harder to be put down than affliction. He (Mr. B.) believed the Irish Government, if it pursued this course of legislation, would soon have good cause to subscribe to the institutions alluded to by the Member for Knareshorough —they would soon want, pretty generally, for all Ireland the Fever Hospital, and the Lunatic Asylum for them selves. This House is to pledge itself, then, to most ex traordinary powers of coercion, and to take the Right Hon. Gereleman's word, and to wait the Right Hon. Gentleman's time, for ordinary powers of redress. The Right Hon. Gentleman's word and time'; He might take it who would have confidence in him ; but will Ireland take it? that is the question. He feat ed nut. And why? What is the great grievance of Ireland ?—The Church Es tablishment. On what subject is the Right Hon. Gentle man supposed, both I.y Irishmen and Englishmen, to be most pledged ? To that very Establishment. On two points they were all agreed, and he therefore should not dwell on them—lst, That there were great grievances in Ireland ; 2d, That the state of that country was most alarming. That there are grievances, he asked no further proof than that there was no confidence in. jus siee—.that we-have law .without -the co-operation of the people, and an ecclesiastical establishment against their re ligion. That the state of the country is most alarming, I ask no other proof than that terror does not produce kespect, nor punishment diminish crime. For this last evil—the state of the country—what are the remedies ? The Right lion. Secretary tells us to enforce the law. by bayonets : the Members for Ireland, with one voice, tell us to adapt the law to the interest of the people. It is with this last opinion that I concur. I concur with it on the grounds-of common sense—on the plainest principles of right legislation. Ido more—l concur with it out of respect to the constituency of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. For in the last Parliament, on the question of Reform, what was the cry of the Tories ?—Force ! And by what cry did the Whigs answer them ?—Redress ! Could I believe my ears—have. I not heard the Right Honourable Secretary, never 'may at a loss for words of thoughts of Lis own, plauidaze -from some former speech—from whom ? Why, no less a person than the Right lion. Baronet the Member for Tamworth ! Does not the following sentence remind us of Toryism in its last cry ? 1 quote his words—" To ,le g islate for griev ances in this state of things, is not to call on them to le gislate, hilt to crouch in submission." How often have chose very benches thrown back this very argument by the unanswerable reply, that the only disgrace in legislating in the midst of disturbance, is in the delay that allowed the disturbance to begin?—(hear.) Sir, there is one part of our address which I dislike upon constitutional grounds. I do not like that part which pledges this House to support without discussion—with out inquiry —indissolubly to support the legislative Union. I urn against a repeal of the Union—it would be worse tor Ireland than England. It should be a last re sort—it is the resort of necessity, not reason; but lam also against the principle of pledging a deliberative assem bly to reject a great and solemn question without any pre vious deliberation. But I will waive that objection—at least I will not insist on it. lam against that part of the address which relates to Ireland, fora more immediate reason. It pledges us to support the policy of th e Ri g ht Hon. Secretary for Ireland. It is impossible for us not to feel, that with the great station—the high character—the commanding talents of that Right Hon. Gentleman —he. must necessariiy exercise a preponderating influence over the policy pursued in his own department. I object to that policy. I object to it on the experience of two years, during which the Right Hon. Gentleman, with all his - ialena e -all his station—has done nothing for the peace of Ireland, and every thing for her danger ; during which he has offended all parties—incensed all sects—embroiled himself with the people—and stands now opposed to ail the people's representatives. I separate the Right Hon. S e cretary front the rest of the Government. I support the Government, c 'use it has pursued a policy of liberal concession ; I oppose the Right Hun. the Irish Secretary, because he has pursued a policy of arbitrary power. 1 tell his Majesty's Ministers that that Right Hon. Member has lost them (perhaps by this address, as the last stroke) the esteem of Ireland. He may do more—he may endanger their strength in this House. Can it be supposed that the independent Members—the 300 new representatives allied to no old party—attached to the superstition of no Whig names—can night after night hear the facts delivered by the Members for Ireland—facts of grievance, answered by demands for soldiery, with.. out dropping off in some defections from the Minis terial majority. If they are not convinced by a recurrence of such debates, the debates will be published, and their constituents will. lam sure that if the Right Hon. Se cretary continues in his present office, England will soon participate in the discontents of Ireland. If we are to be a united empire, we will not have separate interests—we will not have Reform for England, and constabulary force for Ireland. Did we not all feel how generously the Irish Members helped us in our Reform ? Shall we repay them in our first Reformed Parliament by a donation of musketry, or a repeal of the trial by Jury? Sir, I, for one, will not consent to this requital. I will not vote un qualified approbation to this address—nor can I support the vote of unqualified disapprobation of the Hon. Member for Ireland. - I trust there is a middle course left, and that my Right Hon. Friend, the Member for Lambeth, will, as I believe lie intends, move an amendment suited to the difficulties of the case—an amendment which shall imply at least, that if redress is not to precede, it is yet to ac company, this grant of extraordinary power. I shall thus by enabled to give my vote—not in the spirit of hostility to the English Government, but in the spirit of suspicion Against the Irish Government—a pledge of my sympathy with oppression wherever it exists, and a proof of my at tachment to the Unio❑ itself—a Union only to be cement ed by convincing Ireland that we will adopt towards her the same legislative principles we have just carried into effect for ourselves. Mr. STANLEY wished to take the first opportunity of explaining openly what had been so erroneously and so strangely attributed to him. He never did, he never could have said, for he never supposed, that the Reform Bill was to be looked upon as the be-all and the end-all of Reform in this country.—(Cheers.) Upon the only oc casion that he ever touched on the subject, by perversion the most ingenious he hnd been made to say that which he had never even thought—for, so far from asserting its finality as to Reform; he conceived the Reform Bill as hut the machinery by which other necessary Reforms—(Hear, hear)—were to he carried into effect. He stated that he looked upon its passing, and he believed that Ministers concurred in the view, as the completion of that ma chinery by which they were to work other improvements required by the nation.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman here suddenly paused, appearing greatly agi• tated. We believe him to have heard some observation by Mr. O'Connell, which was intended for a personal friend near to that Learned Gentleman. There were loud cries of " Order," during which Mr. Stanley attempted to re sume ; but was prevented, as much apparently by his own excited feelings, as by the continued cheers of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman at length proceeded —He thanked the House for giving him to understand, that it was unnecessary to notice the conduct of the Hem Member.— (Cheers.) What he had been represented to say—he again asserted—was unfounded. He had de clared, on the occasion alluded to, that he looked upon the constitution of that House as complete and final for all those purposes by which an honest Govern , . en', supported try the voice of the people—(Cheers)—could carry into effect such reforms as the people might deem advisable.— (Cheers. ) _ _ Mr. O'CONNELL hoped that the House would permit him to set himself right with them. This he claimed as a measure of justice.—(Hear, hear.) He declared most dis• tinctly, he had not the least idea of interrupting the Right Hon. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) He was replying to a questio❑ put to him by a friend, which he had not the remotest idea could be overheard, and the answer to which, he solemnly declared, was never meant to reach the Right lion. Gentleman.—(Hear, hear.) A GENTLEMAN below the Treasury Bench, who, when the Order of the Day was being real, made several fruitless attempts to address the House, now resumed his efforts. A slight confusion was created, which was at last .uppressed by the SPEAKER desiring " he would, please to sit down"—on which Mr. TENNYSON paid that the explanation which had been just given by the Right Honourable Gentleman must give great satisfaction to the House. He was one among the many who had read a report in a public journal of what was stated to have fillen from the Right Honourable Gentleman in addressing a large body of the people of England. He certainly had collected from it, and the general impression in the public mind was that the Right Honourable Gentleman had stated it, not only as his own 'intention, but as the determination of his colleagues, to oprse any measure for improving the measure of Reform in that House. That was the in terpretation which he had put upon the language of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he trusted that he did not misunderstand the purport of the Right Hon. Gen tleman's explanation, when he supposed that by his saying that the Reform Bill was the machinery by which .other amendments of the law were to be made, he did not ;mean that no further amendments were to be introduced 'on the sul jest of the Reform of Parliament, for he (Mr. Tennyson) was one who thought. in common with the great body of the people, that other am ndments were necessarily consequent upon the Reform Bill—for exarsple, the vote by ballot ; and that it was also expedient to shorten the duration of Parliament.—(Cheers.) lie trusted that he might corect fiorn the Right Hon. Gen tleman's explanation that his Majesty's Government did not mean as a body to insist that the Reform Act wan to l'e a final measure, or with all the might and power of the Government to prevent the House from proceeding to those farther amendments. He thought the explanation of the Right Hon. Gentleman bore that construction. Mr. STANLEY said that the Right Hon. Gentleman mistook his meaning. I Mr. TENNYSON said he was at a loss to conceive what the Right Hon. Gentleman's meaning was, if it was not what he had ascribed to his words. It seemed then that he had given the House no explanation at all, but left thu impression on the public mind untouched.—(Hear, hear.) However, he would pass from that point, and proceed to the topics of the address to his Majesty. In the first place, he felt as much gratitude as any man could to his Majesty and his Ministers for the measure of Reform, but lie could not permit himself on that account to coin promise his duty to the great constituency which sent him to that House—his duty as a representative of the people of England, and also, he might be allowed to say, of the people of Ireland. He trusted that he should be found without turning to the right or to the left to do his luty as zealously and fearlessly to the people of Ireland as to the people of England. He wished to say, nothing on the subject of our foreign policy, and of the Reform of the great monopolies of the country, which had already been treated with great ability. He should pisa on to the subject' of Church Reform, and acknow ledge his gratitude to his Majesty's Ministers for having undertaken that great work. Nothing was more worthy of their attention, and he was sure it would be the safest in their hands. He was per suaded that his confidence in them would not be disap pointed ; that they would effectually reform the Church establishment, and make it subservient to the spirit of religion. He observed, in the speech from the Throne, one or two words which particularly excited his attention. The language of the speech directed the attention of Par liament to a Reform of the Church, " more particularly as regards its temporalities." Was he then to understand that his Majesty's Government contemplated any measure with regard to the internal state of the Church with re spect to its articles of doctrine? He was a friend to the Church Establishment, and was anxious to support, and, therefore, to reform it. He thought the established reli gion ought to be, in any country, the religion of the majority. The establishe.lreligion was in England about the religion of the majority, but no more. If, therefore, it were possible to extend the pale of the Church so as to embrace a larger community, it would be extremely desirable. Every one knew that the Church Articles contained a mass of contradictions which inflicted wounds upon the consciences of a great number even of the ministry of the Church ; and it was very de sirable that the House should turn its attention to the rssibility of expurgating those articles, so as to introduce ' a portion of the religious community which was now ex• eluded. He wished to direct the attention of the Go vernment to that important subject.—(Hear, hear.) With regard to the Church of Ireland, he was happy to see on that subject also a word or two in the speech, which induced him to think that his Majesty's Ministers were inclined to take a liberal view of the question relating to it. The expression in the speech was, that the circumstances of the Established Church of Ireland would require a separate consideration. Applying here the same principle which he had applied to the Esta- Wished Church in England, be should say that it was perfectly preposterous to inflict, even upon a conquered country, much more upon a country united to Eng- I.nd, as Ireland was, a State religion from which seven eighths of the population held a different per stiasion......(Cheers.) He wished not to point more distinctly to these matters at present, hut he was satisfied that some great change must be made, or Ireland would not be at peace. He should now proceed to what had so long occupied the attention of the Honse—namely, the Irish disturbances, and when he looked at the passage of the King's speech which referred to that point, and compared it with the language of the address, he was sur prised to find a word or two in the address which did not find a place in the speech, and he thought his Majesty's Ministers would do well not to desire the House to do more than resecho the words of the speech. The King'sspcech stated that disturbances exist in Ireland, and that a spirit of insubordin item and violence prevails there. These were stated as substantive propositions, and, therefore, the House might affirm them substantively. But, in the address, the expression was—he presumed by the inadvertence of those who drew it up—that an increase of disturbances has taken place in Ireland, occasioned by a spirit of insubordination and violence. That disturbances existed every one knew, but it was not necessary for this House voluntarily to state that they had their origin in an abstract spirit of insubordi nation and violence. He should, therefore, take the liberty of moving a slight amendment on that point, to make the address run in conformity with the King's speech. —(Hear.) Extraortiinury powers were requires► front the Hou s e by th e ape, ch. He agreed with the s entiments expressed by his Hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln, in the eloquent and able speech which the House had just heard, and should with him have been glad to find the language snore conciliatory. It would have been easy for his Majesty's Ministers to have devised some such language a s this—" Give us increased powers, hut direct your at tention immediately, and with the utmost anxiety, to probe the evils of Ireland, for the purpose of administering kind and beneficial relief." Some simple terms of this kind would have soothed the distracted prssions of the people ; and he confessed, that after the speech of the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, last night, he was in utter despair as to the intentions of the Ministry, until he heard his Noble Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, in his own unaffected and straightforward manner, profess the inten tion of his Majesty's Government, to apply the necessary remedies to the evils of Ireland. But, although such were the intentions of the Government, that House was not the Government. The Members of the House of Commons were the representatives of the people, and it was for them to say whether, without information, without any papers be ing laid on the table of the House, before the matter had taken its proper Parliament try course—whether they should, without any information except newspaper reports, and the statements of individual Members of Parliament, make an entire surrender of these powers into the hands of his Majesty's Ministers. They were told, indeed, that ro gentleman by voting for the address, was pledged to vote for the Act of Parliament when brought before the House. But let them now (bop these useless forms, and come to business. Let them not send a mock answer to the Crown, and afterwards refuse to act up to it.— (Hear.) Surely it was high time to introduce some rea son into their proceedings, and let them begin here. IL apprehended that a portion of the disturbances in Ireland were attributable to the want of conciliatory conduct on the part of those who had the immediate administration of Irish affairs. He had no doubt of the good intentions and benevolent purposes of the present Administration. He was well satisfied that they felt an anxious desire to probe the evils of Ireland, and to apply effectual remedies; but not withstanding his confidence, he thought it would not be come that House to yield up implicitly the powers that were demanded, without accompanying that acquiescence with an expression of its determination to enter into an immediate investigation of the evils of that distracted coun try, and of the proper means of redressing them.— (Cheers). It was his intention, when the proper period should arrive, to propose an amendment upon the address on that ground.—(Hear, hear.) His amendment would relate to the latter paragraph of the address respecting those powers which might be required for preserving the public peace, strengthening the Legislature, and securing the welfare of the empire. He agreed with his Hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln, that although he was of opinion that the legislative union ought to be maintained, yet he was bound, as an Englishman, when legislating on the affairs of Ireland, to state, that the more the people were excited, the more necessary was it to listen to the representations and statements made by the representatives of that country, especially as many of them hail been returned to advocate the repeal.—(Cheers.) When he came forward for the place which he had the honour to represent, he acted on the same principle that now guided his conduct. He refused to give pledges as to the course he would take on any particular question in a deliberative assembly, because he could not conscientiously give such a pledge till he had heard the arguments on both sides, and because by these arguments Ire might be led to view the question in a different light. He hoped the House would listen with pa'ience and indulgence to the representations and wishes, anti even to the prejudiced views, of the distracted people of Ireland, and not come to the summary conclusion to which they were now invited, and thus, by closing their doors against them, increase the excitement and exasperation which existed already, and to repress which extraordinary powers were sought tor.--(Loud cheers.) Feeling, therefore, considerable ob jection to the amendment of the Hon. Memo er for Dublin (Mr. O'Connell), he should, at the proper period, move another. Instead of the concluding paragraph in the address, " To assure his Majesty that his confidence, in resorting to the loyalty and patriotism of this House for assistance in these afflicting circumstances, will not he disappointed, and that we shall be ready to adopt such measures of so lutai y precaution, and to intrust to his Majesty such additional powers as may be found necessary for con trolling and punishing the disturbers of the public peace, and for preserving and strengthening the Legislative Union between the two countries, which, under the blessing of Divine Providence, we are determined to support his Majesty in maintaining, as indissolubly connected with the peace, security and welfare of his Majesty's dominions," he should propose as an amendment, that all the words after the word precaution be omitted, for the purpose of substitute ing the following words :—" as may be found necessary; but if, under the circumstances which may he disclosed to us, we should be induced to intrust his Majesty with additional powers, we shall feel it our dray to accompiny that acquiescence in his Majesty's wishes by a close and diligent investigation into the causes of discontent in Ireland, with a view to the application of prompt and effectual remedies ; and that although it is our duty to receive the petitions of the people of Ireland, with regard to the Legislative Union between the two coun tries, and to leave ourselves fie, to consider that subject, yet we are ready to support his Majesty in maintaining that Union against all lawless attempts to defeat it, or to invade the peace, security, anti welfare of his Majesty's dominions." If such an amendment to the address were agreed to, he should have no objection to assent to any measures that might be necessary for enabling his Majesty's Government to preserve the peace and good order of so ciety.—(Hear, hear ) Mr. MACAULAY had not intended, when the discus sion on the address commenced yesterday evening, to take an active part in it. He confessed,' however, in the course of the debate he did feel anxious to address a few Words to the House ; and now that he bad been personally alluded to by the Hun. Member for Lincoln, he felt he could no longer remain silent. He would not pause to say aught respecting self, but would venture to address a few words on a question of much raore importance than his mere personal consistency, which, however, if apparently post poned far a few moments, would, he persuaded himself, he vind cated in the course of his observations. It ap peared to bhn that the lion. Member (Mr. Bulwer) had, in a manner not uncommon with persons of his ingenuity, a little deceived himself with respect to the meaning of the words he employed. "On one side," said the lion. Member, " we are called upon to apply coercion as a re medy for the state of Ireland, while, on the other, the Learned Member for Dublin implores us to apply the more grateful and more efficient remedy of redress. Can I hesitate for a motnent which I should adopt ? " and then declares his determination to vote on the side of redress. Now, what the Hon. Metnber meant by " redress " might, and, in point of fact, did, essentially differ from the meaning attached to it by the Learned Member for Dublin. That Learned Member meant by redress his favourite project of a reseal of the Union—(Hear, hear) —to which the Hon. Member fir Lincoln declared him self adverse, showing, as he bad intimated, that both attached Very different meanings to the sante plausible etm.—(Elear.) But then they were told by the Hon. Member arid the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last, that they should pause and examine, and discuss and deli berate, before they pledged themselves against the repeal measure, or any other measure which the people might consider remedial of their grievances. Very well ; whose fault was it that they had not long since examined and debated that question?—(Hear.) Was it the fault of the Government? Certainly not. It had over and over courted discuosion,—had over and over challenged the Learned Gentleman, if he durst, to bring it boldly and substantively under the consideration of the House of Commons.—(Hear, hear.) But though the gauntlet was thus frequently thrown down, the Learnt d Gentleman never once ventured to take it up,—nay, never hail put it forward in any speech in that House, so as to afford his opponents an opportunity of fully discussing the question on its own merits.—( Hear, hear.) Last night, for ex ample, he addressed the House at great length for two or three hours—it mattered not how many, for be was too eloquent and able a debater to weary the attention of his hearers—and studiously, lie would say with curious ingenuity, avoided employing a single argument directly bearing on the question of a repeal of the Union.— , ( Hear.) Th en on y es t er d a y a l so the Learned Gentleman had given notice of not less than fourteen motions in refe rence to the grievances of Ireland, but not a word was to be found on the order-hook touching a repeal of the Union. --(Hear.) What was the fair inference from this deliberate silence of the Learned Gentleman ? lie woeld untnincingly answer, none other than that the Learned Gentleman had suffered judgment to go against him by default, he having shrunk, nay, skulked away from his own mea sures.—(Loud cries of " Heir.") If ever there was an occasion which naturally led to a discussion of the repeal question, the amendment of the Learned Gentleman last night was that occasion ; and yet, if ever there was a speech, as he had stated, which carefully avoided all re ference to the topic, it was the Learned Gentleman's able and eloquent speech of yesterday ; therefore, it was not from any fear of their inability to refute such arguments as the Learned Gentleman might adduce in favour of his project, nor from any want of faith in their own areu , ment, that Ministers had not long since expressed their deliberately-formed opinions on this question. Tell them, indeed, to wait till they had examined the petitions of the Irish people, as if they had not already, in common with every gentleman who took any interest in the affairs of the country, carefully examined the subject in all its hear ings, and arrived at calm and sound conclusions. Why, be himself, the least of his party, was ready comparatively, little prepared as he was, to meet the Learned Member for Dublin that very moment on the subject, to discuss it inch by inch with him, and unless he greatly deceived himself, to satisfy the House that, so far from a repeal of the Union being a remedy for the political ills and , cial grievances of Ireland, it would bitterly, per haps incurably, aggravate both.—(Loud cheers.) But, after all, what did the Learned Gentleman and his party mean by their watchword of " Repeal of the Legisla tive Union between England and Ireland?" If they meant or really wished a complete separation_(" No" from Mr. O'Connell), or a kind of Hibernian republic— (" No" and " Hear")—he must say their c mduct was comprehensible and consistent.—(Hear, hear.) But if, as they asserted—and he did not mean for a moment to question the sincerity of their declarations—they hoped to see realized their project of a separate legislature under the same Monarch, lie could only say the proposition—mark, two independent legislatures—for if not independent they were a mockery of the term—and one executive—was ut terly inconsistent with the first principles of the science of Government.—( Hear, bear.) He presumed that when the Learned Metrib. r for Dublin said lie meant not a sepa ration from the rule and government of the King of Eng lind, he did not in his repeal contemplate in Ireland a state of things, relative to the British connexion, like that which was obtained in Hanover. The King of England was also King of Hanover ; so might he, according to the Learned Member's project, he also King of Ireland. Was that his exact meaning?—the same person no minally King, but the actual Government in an inde pendent legislature?—(" No," and " Hear.") Well then, as that was not the meaning which the Learned Gentleman attached to the term " repeal," it was but fair to suppose that he meant an identity of executive between that which should be in force in England, with its independent do mestic legislature, and, in Ireland, with its also indepen dent domestic legislature.—(Hear.) The House need not be reminded that, though the King of England was also King of Hanover, there was no identity of interest end executive influence in the two countries. So far from it, England night be at peace—at least neuter—with re spect to a state against which Hanover, as a member of the German Diet, should have to march its contingency of troops for the purposes of war.—(Hear. hear.) When, therefore, the Learned Gentleman stated that he was anxious to preserve the Sovereignty of the King of Eng land in Ireland, lie must be understood as also anxious to preserve the sameness of the executive government in the two countries—(Heat)—for otherwise his identity of mo narchy would be only such an identity as that just referred to in Hanover.—(Hear, hear.) Well, then, they began to see their way—that is, to attach some definite meaning to the term " Repeal of the Union." The Learned Gen tleman meant simply two legislatures under one executive. —(Heir, hear.) Let them, therefore, confine their ob servations to this dt finition. He would ask any Hon. Member who heard him whether, without referring to the facts, which experience furnished, he thought such a state of things a priori possible as two legislatures—two independent legislatures, and one executive ? He ad mitted that by the theory of the Constitution there might be a double machinery, each being independent of its du plicate. There might, for example, be a King's Bench in Dublin, independent of, and co-existent with, and—quoati Ireland—co-equal with the King's Bench in London ; but all this was plainly but a portion of the same execu tive jurisdiction.—(Hear.) Not so, however, any ma chinery which partook of the character of an indepen dent, co- existent, and co-equal legislature. Be the theory of the Constitution what it might, in practice two such independent legislatures with one executive would be a poli tical anomaly ; or rather, he would say, a political inipos sibility.—(Hear, hear.) Let them consider the practical influence of an independent legislature upon the acts of the executive power. By the theory of the Constitution, the Crown was unfettered in its choice of Ministers ; the de claring war and the concluding peace was part of its ex clusive functions, and yet they knew that in practice the Legislature exercised a very extensive influence on all these matters. Though the King was free by the theory of die Constitution to choose his own servants, it was well known that practically he could not retain any Ministry to which Parliament was hostile. In the same way, though the negotiations of Ambassadors were constitu tionally slid to be exclusively under the King's control, yet they knew how much the foreign policy of the State was, in point of fact, determined by the voice of Parlia tnent.—(Hear.) Now, on the supposition implied by the Learned Member for Dublin's project of a repeal of the Union, he should like to know how they could, in these instances, insure that unanimity of action between the Legislature and the Ext-cutive which was essen tial to the very existence of the Government ? The supposition, be it remembered, implied two independent and co-existent Legislatures. Suppose that the English House of Commons was favourable to a war, while the Irish House of Commons declared that we should remain at peace with some Court, at which our Ambassador had in vain sought redress for some national grievances—(he presumed that the Learned Gentleman did not mean that the King of England should appoint one Ambassador to represent him in—say France,—and the King of Ireland another—(Hear, and a laugh)—or suppose that the Irish Legislature determined upon impeaching the conjoint im perial Ambassador, while the English, on the contrary, voted him their thanks for his diplomatic conduct on the same occasion ; how was it possible, he would ask, that they could go on for ten years, or for five years, or he might say, for one year, under the same imperial Execu tive?—(Hear.) Was not the supposition monstrous—in the teeth of the evidence of all history ? Did not Ireland herself furnish a painfully instructive lesson of direct ap plication ? In 1782, she obtained, for the first time, time semblance of an independent Legislature ; let the deplora ble 'events which, 18 years atter, led to the amalgamating the two separate and independent Parliaments, speak for themselves, as to the possible existence of such an anomaly. Nut even the roost glaring corruption which was used towards the Irish Parliaments, nor the fact that her people were kept down by a strong military force, could prevent the events of the 18 years subsequent to the declaration of independence, which no man could advert to without horror.—( Hear.) He did not mean to sty that it required 18 years to demonstrate the ills of two independent Legislatures acknowledging a common head or executive functionary. In 1788 George 111. was ren dered, by illness, incapable of exercising the royal functions. By the Constitution, the choice of temporaryladministrants of those royal function, devolved upon Parliatnent. In England, the Parliament accordingly chose the Prince of Wales Regent, with very extensive restrictions ; while the Parliament of Ireland chose hint Regent tvithout any re strictions whatever.—(Hear, hear.) It was true they both chose the same person, but it was equally true that the common choice was but an accident, and that the independent Legislature of Ireland could not only have chosen a Regent without any restrictions, contrary to the terms of the choice of their English brethren, but any other person they might prefer for the office.—( Hear, h e ar.) And what was more, the consequences of this difference in the condition in which the Prince of Wales was invested with the executive functions might have gone on till the death of George 111., should his illness have lasted his natural life; that is, for thirty two years, Ireland, to al! intents and purposes, would have one Re gent, with its independent Legislature, and England another, and all this, too, without departing an iota from the letter of the Constitution. Those facts spoke for themselves; he referred to them because, he took it, they would bring the m onstrosity of a double Legislature with a single executive home to the conviction of the Learned Gentleman and his party. For his own part, he required no such evidence to convince him of a fact which all history confirmed—viz., that it was morally, politically, and, he might add, physi cally impossible for two independent legislatures to co-exist under one executive.—(Hear, her r.) The more minutely history was examined the more would the conviction of this important truth be strengthened, and the more would all appearances to the contrary be deceptive. They coul J have, as of yule, a Parliatnent in England, and a Pattie • meta in Ireland ; hut :it should be as up to 1782, when the whole actual Legislative power lay in the oce, and a ll that the other had to do was to formally obey. Such was the case in the co-existent Parliaments of Fiance, Burgundy, and Brittany; and, more, in those mockeries of the name with which the house of Austria amused the people of Bohemia and the Tyrol. In all these cases there was no such thing as an independent legislature; all the power lay in the hands of the crown ; and the P trliament was a mere pageant—a mockery—or means of rivetting the fetters of the conquered.—(Hear, hear.) lii fact, if history had one lesson which stood out more emphatically than another, it was that which, indeed, reason would strike out for itself, the impossibility of two independent legislatures co-existing under the same executive head. It was not easy to get at the precise plan of repeal con templated by the Learned Member for Dublin. ale lead not himself developed it, and it was only to be guessed at by some partial revelations. Among a number of statements of the Learned Gentleman on this head which he had read in the public journals, the most precise plan which he had read was one proposing a kind of fed. ral union of a local legislature sitting—say in Dublin—with an Imperial legislature in London.— (" Hear," from Mr. O'Connell.) But did the Leal ned G ntleinan deceive himself, that by this plan he evaded the difficulties which attached to the two independent legisla tures of which he had been speaking? Supposing, as in the latter case, that there should spring tip some difference of opinion or conduct between the two Legislatures, the domestic and the imperial, who was to decide between them ? Where was the paramount authority to declare, you are right, and you wrong ; you therefore muse. viol t, &c. ; for on the supposition of the Learned Gentleman, they were both to be independent.—(Hear.) It might, perhaps, be said that the Crown might interfere and re concile their differences, as it did when differences oc curred between the House of Lords and the House of Com mons. No doubt the Crown did possess a constitutional power, which in practice had prevented collisions between the hereditary and the representative branches of the Le gislature; it could dissolve the one,—it could add to the numbers of the other. In point of fact, they all knew that both expedients were had recourse to in the reign of Anne, in 1710 and 1712 ; in the one instance—the Ailes. bury affair—the Queen dissolved the House of Commons ; in the other,—the question of the peace of Utrecht, — she created a number of Peers. But all this merely showed that the executive possessed the means of preventing a collision between two branches of one and the same Le eislature, and not that the same remedy would apply to a collison between two distinct and independent Legisla tures.—(Hear, hear.) The federal union of a domestic and an imperial Legislature, then, did not meet the d ffi culty, which indeed the greatest federal republic in the world was at this moment exhibiting on a large scale.— (Hear.) That great con`ederation, in which the confe derating parties all unanimously, at the memorable con vention at which the genius of Washington presided, and the most able statesmen of the age assisted, agreed to that form of union contemplated by the Learned Gentleman; and yet, atter more than half a century's trial, know no other arbiter between a domestic and an imperial Legisla ture but physical force.—(Hear, hear.) Was not he, therefore, warranted in asset ting that the Learned Gen tleman's scheme of repeal would be much worse for Ire land and the empire than total separation? That separa tion the Learned Gentleman declared he would con sider to be a' grievous national calamity. So would he (Mr. Macaulay) ; hut not half so much so as the success of the Learned Gentleman's plan of repeal.— (Hear.) If, on a fair trial, it were found that the two countries cannot be made to co-exist in the same empire, —cannot be made to harmoniously combine in one course of mutual support and prosperity, in God's name let them be wholly separated.—(Cheers.) He, for one, could not wish to see them, like those strange twin beings lately exhibited in this city, connected by an unnatural tie, which made each the plague of the existence of the other —each in the other's way ; more slow of motion, because they had more legs than either would have had under a happier state of being ; more helpless because they had more hands; partaking of no common aliment, and sym pathizing only in disease and hclplessnese.—(Cheers.) The Learned Gentleman told them last night that he, and he alone, stood between them and civil war. Admitted. Was that an argument for the repeal of the Union ? 0.•, what was more germane to the matter, did the list of grievances on which the Learned Gentleman wrung the changes, tell in favour of that repeal ? He was not a man to speak lightly of the grievances of Ireland ; he trusted to see them soon remedied, so tar as remedy was within the gift of the Legislature ; but he had yet to learn that the repeal of the Union was a remedy for grievances which existed long before the Union took place, and which, be would confidently venture to add, a repeal of that Union would aggravate.—(Hear, hear.) The Learned Gentle man in his post hoc and propter hoc distinctions seemed to reverse the well known logic of the Godwin-sands versus Tenterden•steeple. The steeple was the cause of the sands, quoth the logici ins, because it existed before ; but the Learned Gentleman reverses the reasoning, and says, bec 'use the Union took place long after the existence of certain grievances, therefore it roust be the cause of them.•—(Hear, and laughter.) Some of the grievances which he thus affiliated to the act of Union were not, moreover, peculiar to Ireland, or any form of Govern ment. The removal of many of thein—undeserved sine curists, political judges, corrupt magistrates, for example, was a great object of the Reform Bill, and surely the re moval of the remaining Irish ones dial not, in all fairness, require a domestic Legislature. Besides, see to what the argument tended ; if local abuses in Ireland required a local Legislature to remedy them, why should not every other part of the empire, also complaining of grievances, be allowed its domestic legislature ? They had all heard much of late years, even within his own short Parlia mentary career, respecting abuses under the Welch Judges, but he never heard any advocate of a remedy for those abuses propose that that remedy should be an inde pendent domestic Legislature. In the same way he never beard it said that a domestic Legislature should be esta blished in Cornwall because there were several local grievances in that county which required a remedy.— (Hear.) Nay, to come nearer his own political jlaorne Leeds, he could assure the House that a large meo!ity of his constituents complained loudly and with great justice of the grievances imposed by its corporation ; but not a hint had been thrown out to him that the best remedy would be the establishing a nice little federal independent domestic legislature in the west riding of Yorkshire.— " Hear," and laughter.) And yet, if the Learnt d . Gen tleman's project was good for anything, it applied to Wales, and Cornwall, and Yorkshire, and every county in England, as much as to Dublin.—(Hear, hear.) Ile would go further,—perhaps the Learned Gentleman would say much further, and maintain that the clearest ground which could be guessed at as the basis of his repeal scheme would apply cc fortiori to a separation of the legislatures of the north and south of Ireland. If a rooted difference of religion and its worst conse quences would justify the separation of the English and Irish legislatures, the same difference, and, still more, the same baleful consequences, would warrant the separation of Protestant Ulster from Catholic Munster. —(Hear.) lf, as the Learned Gentleman had often declared, it was impossible fur a Catholic prosecutor or prosecuted to obtain even the semblance of justice from an Orange juryman, and that such a state of things would be a justification of a repeal of the legislative Union be tween England and Ireland (though the fact was noto rious no such conduct would, under any circumstances, be manifested towards British subjects in England)—why, then, the same reasoning, that only a domestic Legislature could romedy a domestic grievance, would, in a tenfold degree, apply in favour of one domestic Legislature in Dublin, and another in Derry, and every other large town in the north of Ireland.—(Hear.) Mr. Macaulay pro ceeded next to say that he persuaded himself that he had sufficiently, by implication, vindicated himself from ti e charge of inconsistency urged against him by the Hon. Member for Linceln. It was not quite fair to rote a speech delivered in a discussion on the Reform Bill on quite a different question. Every such expression . should be construed by the occasion on which it was . delivered, l a i n k d e ittheonHlyo.n. tbheettewrhtohlaenfoareperaocrti‘sveid.sdwnrniteolf• words d e pended on their a pplication—that nothing was; easier than to write a theory on either side of a subject —either all panegyric or vituperation--and . that the wis- N A . I o e Itiriabienr knew that For example, were he to defend rhistlewood in the tone wis dom or folly depended solely on the , application.--( Hear.) and language which he sho uld, at least ought to, emp l oy, —were he the advocate o f a Lord William Russell, or an Algernon Sydney, it would be . plain he wa s emp l oy i ng words, to say the leas t, unapportel . y. The whole, he re peated, depended on the application and the time, th e appositeness, and by these he ou g ht in fairness to have it anisb(delusion—(Hear)— o ) n Be (Ile believed,ar) also, nay been judged by the Hon. Member for Lincoln. Mr. Ma caulay proceeded next t o sa y that he believed the project of a repeal that more, if were practicable, there is n o p art o f t h e ent , ire it would be so fatally ruinous to as Ireland itself.— • (Hear, hear.) The expressions which he used on the oc casion alluded to by the Hon. Member fur Lincoln, and of to the be Union inpo to s y b i e i t a . great_ c h which he did not then shrink from, did impure much, per haps 9 10ths of the grievances and ills which afflicted the country previous to the passing of the Reform Bill, to the misgovernment consequent upon a withholding that bene 4 facial measure. But it should be r e coll e cted, in aPP IS, his language to the case of Ireland, that he did not tb. fore ague that the breaches of th e l aw to which te consequences of misgovernment led s h ou ld go uor tai ' in) , d. v When he said that in his mind the b urn i ng s and des tr of lion of agricultural produce, whi c h dis g raced s° ll lja portions of England, were mainly ow i ng t o the the on nisters turning a deaf ear to the people's cry for Re f ' . 0 he did not at the same time contend that the inee adi nt and the lawles s d es t ro y ers o f soc i a l or d er s h o uld novo hanged or punished.—(Hear.) Then, though h. e earnestly deplored th e p ro b a bl e resu l ts o f reJ ec ' z fi e s the Reform Bill, h e did not assert that the ou trs ' e s and excesses committed under the name of t bat sts l jection should pass with impunity—that for the o ri t b e rioters, for example, the sword of justice should no t:4 , unsheathed.--(Hear.) But he would defend the eon t oe envy of his language on that and the present oeca si , an o ll. of the mouth of the Learned Member for Dublin b' ta t - be i Teat Learned Gentleman told them yesterday, th at might goad by their harsh policy, some of the less P ru- e ltf less thinking multitude into a general war against pn: - 0 and order, but that he would be found in the ranks at t he executive in resisting the outrages, and puralshing o a, guilty.—([[ear.) The Learned Gentleman, it wa a said that he would thus join their ra n k s a s the / o° , o/ two great crib—that whil e h e a id e d t h em h e would and execrate them as the parent source of all the —(Hear)—but still he would be found in their WO 0 (Hear, hear.) If, therefore, the Learned Gradesli,, eiceined himself as not inconsistent when aiding in che f, tl ing the lawless consequenc es o f gr i evances w hich be al called upon them to remedy, he (Mr. Macaulay) a - e m. least as little obnoxious to the c h a r ge o f th e L ea rned ; [le a a bet. for Lincoln. Both he and th e L earne d Gentl e- 0 . agreed in ascribing to misgovernment the real I S l t ea d, tage of th e gr i e v ances w hi c h h a d l e d , or tnight died to acts inconsist en t w ith soc i a l or d er , a nd agreed that whil e th e gr i evances s h ou ld b e rer a t" ,a Tat the violation of the law should be punished• only difference • between them was one of tinie ';that was, when the l a w s h ou ld b e en f orce d aga i nst its rt s t a greasors. He agreed with the Learned Gentlerns a le m e Ireland presented ma n y gr i evances which dernande"dp best attention of the L e gi s l a t ure , w i t h a v i ew w a reap —(Hear.) He fur o n e wou ld d o hi s b est to redres s " ' grievances. —(Hear, hear.) He would go furthers of declare he would nu t b e l ong f or a moment to any 6°Y , e , t ment to which th a t re d ress wou ld b e a matter o f t1 ° , 0 ", -e ss sary delay.—(Cheers.) But because he was thus re n e a redress the griev a n ces o f I re l an d, was h e i n t h e meta t, to see the law outraged —nay, despised by a furious misguided multitude ? T a lk o f th e di str ib ut i on o f ( " r e , property in a c o u n t r y i n w hi c h no property at t his th° W .d was respected, and be told that to enforce the law ag . „ 31 0 the robber, and the murderer, and the incendiary, De drive an injured people into civil war !—(Cheers.) de those people who talk thus wildly recollect the presentol plore.ble state of Ireland ? Do they recollect eh county alone, according to the authority of the Right is sl Irish Secretary, not less than 60 murders, or a tteteP murder, had b een perpetrate d i n comparat i ve ly 3 est weeks, and not less than 600 burglaries, or attesor bi t burglary ?—( Hear, hear.) Why, this is far wore tl to civil war.—(Hear.) A lass of life and property ti a ,",,a! the sacking of thr ee o r f our t owns . Ci v il war jetfoil he declared soleu.n!y he would rather live in the Iv i "°,o many civil wars he had r ea d o f thi s moment t h a n i° 5 . ,; 0 0 parts of Ireland.—(Hear, h ear .) C ompare the it-e 0 under the Pr e t e nd e r a t C ar ttel e , or P reston. an d who `" pre' not prefer a residence in either at the time of th e tender, to one in se v era l coun ti es i n I re l an d a t th° g e t s 4 moment?—(Hear.) And yet to endeavour to put 4 ". id to such a disgrac e ful st a t e o f anarc h y an d str ife, wl i- i tsf " brutally" coerce Ireland into a civil war. Wl'Y',„o l "' civil war has long sinc e b egun , an d, if not c h ec ked, oe end in the ruin of th e emp i re .—(Ch eers. ) I n the vot be of the remarks with which he had thus troubl ed iii House, he had avo id e d a ll allusion to those irritating "'; 0 1 4 cennected with th e v it u p era ti ons w hi c h t he l' ea 4 ;a4 Member for Dubli n h a d, more th an once, thought i t ; J O/ to pour out against the party now in office. Tha t 1 0(tl will spare itself the task of reproaching him with 0° re d to say the least, savouri ng o f i ngrat i tu d e . The Lear Gentleman may be assured his abuse is not a bit g ° oo l stinging to those against whoni it is directed thet a 00 1 which was so lavishly bestowed upon it by those vi r ' o o (l so long withheld from him and his Catholic be e std their political rights, and who were now a llied wi de e fef in hostility against those very persons who had bee'? the earnest and uncompromising advocates of those bi b --(Hear, hear.) He may be assured that the . 0 ill minded m e n, who b rave d t h e " N o P opery " crY, g ,' its fury, are not lik e ly t o b e scare d b y a ll t, 9 ; e rs.) vet ich has raised a re p ea l o f t h e Union.--(CP-10 "As attached to that party," continued Mr. t fot caulay, " known by the name of the Whigs, it is 13- es' me to speak of their claims upon the favour of 3 ,7 10 A, lightened public. Hi s t or y w ill d o th em justicee't. tb y hear)—and show, among ot h er t hi ngs not unwar:do(rj commendation, that they sacrificed all that is coas t it dear to party spirit, no less than to personal ambit i ; P oill favour of the cause of r e ligi o us lab e rty—(Cheers)l a o' 4 show that in 1807 they left office, because they O a , ile a" knock off the political fetters of ilattii Catholic l e e r e subjects ; and that, for the same sacred cause, 0,Y,,„e mained upwards of twenty years out of office, t sw at snore than once within their grasp, braving at th e Or time the frowns of the Court a n d the hi sses of the Otbd tude.—(Great cheering.) Yes, for the Cathoh ea re iri renounced power and place, without obtaining i f ,u he rt the poor reward of a fl eet i ng popularity.---( 1 )Z o These were inen of the party i n th ose d a y s of " pery" triumph, who might, by uttering one little g el! against the Catholics,—nay, i n some places, by ‘ 11 0 " nut saying a little word in favour of them, have h e ; , ,,gi turned by numerous constituencies to a seat in the c oo lature ; but who, soon e r th an utter t h at little We'r"A c i ki t trary to their well-founded convictions of right a ° foil tire, were not only exCluiled from Parliament, all those places of honour and trust which are egv e ilet every high-minded English gentleman.—(Hear.) 0 0 Whigs retired from public life, but their honour w y tl sullied.—(Cheers.) The clamour, therefore, sc bic e ari' Learned Member for Dublin is endeavouring t 0 o net against Earl Grey's Government cannot be of much rrt , hi tol' compared with th a t w hi c h E ar l G rey h as already W i t' be in order to place the Learned Gentleman where s rt Though a comp ara ti ve ly y oung mem b er o f the Wil l t" i n r.ll' I think I can t a k e i t upon me to spea k t h e i r senti°, w „got this head. I th ere f ore un d erta k e to te ll the ' - " gi bic Gentleman that the saute spirit and moral courag e oa fl' sustained the Whigs when out of office in their e on fi with bad law s , w ill susta i n t h em i n o ffi ce i n their 'L e st . wilt the enemie s o f goo d l aws .—(C ont i n ued e`t They w e re n o t d eterre d b y c l amour from making' Learned Gentl eman not l ess than a Br i t i s h s ubje c y,e may be assured they will never suffer him to be u'° (Deafening cheers, whi c h l aste d at l east a °►iaUtrbd here as a member o f a numerous an d flatl r° / community who have conceived that the sereie ea c o o oli people is not incompatible with the service of the t it and who have sent me here, to use the words co th e b s t ' il y. , summons, ' to advise his Majesty upon certain weig a , 1 0 0 , , urgent affairs concerning the state and delell e s ee' kingdom.' Its this capacity, and in the perf olo this duty, I ant prepared to vote with the addres4i in answer to his Majesty's speech, particularly t" of it which pledges Parliament to preserve the leg tIPP' Union between England and Ireland inviolate, ---a „,pie on which depends the wellbeing of th e British e ' . " —(Loud cheers.) . tbe Mr. O'CONNELL h o p e d h e s h ou ld expe riell' e , te r, dulgence of the H ouse f or a f e w moments, as he G im e t n e t d le t tr e n ev h i a ls d of sa id Ireland that t he et (ills.he to confine himself to explanation. The Riga[ ad, so far ft oat that being the fact, he had been tou t of o f Hon. Members for having made no mention at al s question of the Union throughout his speech. t ithe/ Mr. SHEIL said that there was a practical aad (muunting to contradiction, in the course purs ti , eo , Member foe Leeds aMr. Macaulay) ; for while " ss e ib id i into a most elaborate discussion on the Union , „d i ; assumes is unpremeditated, he supports an addre!tieji leg i s O l a tn ti n O'Connell) li 0 b . 3( ;.; recommends the extinction of all argument, put , debate, strikes Ireland dumb, and claps a pacil ° f ber, lips, though it never can stop time throbbings ° Olt / and indignant heart.—(Hear, hear, hear-) r strange proceeding on the part of the Membe r I° , l oil • to discuss the question himself, and to deny eigueo,lo:t the right to entertain it—to recommend the sul lo ge t s the HAIR ms Corpus Act, in order to commit at ato o. in Ireland to incarceration, while he himself Wa:itiett:,, • luxuriates in so wide a field of discursive expo, ear, 0 ( Hear, hear.) One could, however, hav e d es 0 0, t having taken the subject in hand, he bad tou c h b J r topics which appear to us not irrelevant-4 13 % , fp! vetted to the fiscal and moral evils of abientee, t , of, e plained the causes of the mi-ery and destiturturromei land, had exhibited the advantages of ° u bo ritig, dependence, and shown us time benefits of aieS. English Members overwhelm on Irish qu a : at: l ' o i, jority of Irish Members in this Hou ae .4ll l V, t' g stead of doing so, he delights us with an ene ho la' derived frotn the Siamese twins.-e-(Cheers ati. , s ear if f But while the Hon. Gentleman thus .gas;iiiya f -pirit of fanciful illustration, he was uncorlseiddietill ing us with an image of our calamitous e°114„....t7at ire indeed linked in an unfortunate brotherh°..if vita gether with no ligature through which the ,"