The Sun. — London, England, 1854-12-22 00:00:00

MONEY MARKET At-rD C'IMI 7 0114. /INTELLIRENCJE: CITY, Two O'CLOCK. The sales of cotton at Liverpool yesterday were estimated at 7,000 bales, including 500 Ameri can, 70 Pernam and Maranham at Gd. to 61d., 250 Egyptian at sd. to Bd., 500 Surat at 30. to 3d., and 30 Sea Island at 11.1 d. to Is. 4d. per lb. Railway shares were quiet, but firm. Colonial produce has been rather quiet this week. The markets close to-day for the holidays, and do not re-open till Jan. 2. Sugar has been steady in price, and some of the foreign descriptions have been a shade dearer. Coffee has been rather dull, though most descriptions maintain their prices. In tea only a small business has been done. Spices have been at nearly the previous rates. Rice has continued quiet. Saltpetre has been rather dearer for the better kinds. Cochineal is up fully ld. per lb. Hemp and flax are very dull, and also oils and iron. Tallow has been heavy, but yesterday it was slightly firmer, having recovered to 635. Gd. to 635. 9d. per cwt. It appears by the report of Messrs. D. Bell, Son, mid Co., that a good deal of business has been transacted in American securities, especially the Virginian and Pennsylvanian bonds. The current prices are as follows : Redeemable. Per Cent. United States 6 per Cent. Bonds 1862...101 102 United States 6 per Cent. Bonds 1868...108. 109. United States 6 per Cent. Inscribed Stock 1867-1868...107 108 Pennsylvania 5 per Cent ... 73 75 Pennsylvania 5 per Cent. Bonds 1877... 78 80 Massachusetts 5 per Cent. (Sterl. Bonds) 1868-101 102 South Carolina 6 per Cent. Bonds (Barin g's) 1858-1868... 93 95 Maryland 5 per Cent. (Sterling Bonds)... ... 93 94 Alabama 5 per Cent. (Sterl. Bonds) 1858-9-66... 83 irginia 5 per Cent. (Sterling Bonds) ...1888... 87 89 Virginia 6 per Cent. Bonds 1886... 82 84 Kentucky 6 per Cent. 1868... 88 90 Canada 6 per Cent. (Sterling Bonds) 1876...109 110 LOANS OS' CITIES. Boston per Cent. (Sterling Bonds) ...100 101 Montreal 6 per Cent 1857-1865... 83 New Orleans 6 per Cent. Bonds 1893... 82 RAILROAD BONDS. Great Western of Illinois 10 per Cent., 1868... 61 62 Ist Mortgage Pennsylvania Central R. Rd. 6p. Cent 1880... 89 90 New York and Erie 7 per Cent. Ist Mort gage lB6B-1869...100 101 New York and Erie 7 per (lent. 8d Mort giwe 1883... 76 77 New York and Erie 7p. Cent., Convertible lB6l .. 70 Northern Indiana 7 per Cent. let Mort gage (Gosehen Branch) 1868... 75 Terre Haute and Alton 7 per Cent. lst Mortgage 1867... 75 The Stock Market has been a little firmer since the commencement of business, but the transac tions entered into are not of magnitude. The idea that the Chancellor of the Exchequer has an in tention of selling Savings-bank Stock to some amount, substituting Exchequer Bonds or a new security, whether well or ill founded, naturally has the effect of depressing the Stock Market. The bankers would look upon such a measure as the receipt of deposits and their retention in the Treasury as an interference with their busi ness, and the Stock Exchange dislike the assumption of new powers by Government that will allow in any shape of the sale of securities without a special vote of Parliament. It may perhaps be unfair, however, until the subject is duly considered upon official information furnished, to come to premature conclusions, or event() attempt forming a judgment; but with Mr. Gladstone's known disposition to innovate, and the fact that the Savings Bank de posits exceed 33,000,0001., the distrust that is manifested in some quarters is the more easy to understand. Consols have been 91+ to and are now 91 The New Three per Cents. have been marked-91/ to I, and the Reduced 91 to +. Bank Stock is worth 208 k, being steady. Exchequer Bills are 4s. to 75., and India Bonds 9s. to 12s. premium. Foreign Securities have been rather firmer gene rally. Mexican Bonds realise 24. Peruvian 69+ to 1, and Chilian 100 i. Turkish Stock has risen from 74i to 751. Spanish New Deferred Bonds have been 18k to 19. The following are the nominal prices of Foreign Stocks :—Grenada Deferred Bonds, 5 to 6 ; Mexi can, 21 to 211 ; Peruvian, 68 to 70 ; ditto 3 per Cents., 48 to 50 ; Portuguese 4 per Cents., 41 to 43 ; Russian 5 per Cents., 97 to 99 ; ditto 4i per Cents., 87 to 89 ; Spanish New Deferred, 181 to 19 ; ditto 3 per Cents., 381 to 39+ ; ditto Certificates, 5+ to 5k ; ditto Passive, 4-a to 4g. The Railway Share Market has been without any particular change, but the dealings are, in some instances, at a slight rise. There is no absolute activity. In Foreign Shares there is more doing. Luxembourg are better maintained. The Mining Market is dull. The Joint Stock Banks are much livelier, and at full quotations. The Australian and Canada Land Shares are at full rates, and Scottish Australian higher. BRITISH FUNDS THIS DAY.—CLOSING PRICES. (From the Oficial List.) Iluiness done Bank Stock 2OBl 9 3 per Cent. Reduced Annuities ... 911 1 3 per Cent Cor sols Annuities Now 3 per Cent. Annuities Long Annuities, Expire sth Jan., 1860 -16 Ditto 30 Years, Expire 10th Oct., 1859 4 1-16 India Bonds. £l000 Ditto, under £lOOO 9 12 Consols for Account, 10th January Exchequer Bills, 21d. £lOOO Small 4 7 Exchequer Bonds 1858, 3. per Cent. — Ditto 1859, ~ PRICE OF FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAY. Chilian Bonds, 6 per Cent. Mexican 3 per Cent. Ditto for the Account 21,, Peruvian Bonds, 4i per Cent. Spanish Bonds, 3 per Cent — Ditto New Deferred, 3 per Cent. l9 18i Turkish Scrip, paid up in full Ditto for the Account Dividends on the above payable in London. THREE O'CLOCK. Comas Ditto, January A cowint ...... . 91$ x SAYINGS-BANK FUNDS. The statement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer on Thursday night, on moving a resolution for a change in the present system for dealing with the funds of savings banks, caused the English funds to open yesterday at a decline. There is reason to believe, however, that no ground exists for this adverse movement, and that it origi nated in an erroneous impression that the contemplated measure is intended to give the Government increased power to sell or otherwise deal at pleasure with the savings-bank stock now standing in the names of the commissioners, and which amounts to a total of about 33,000,000 L. So far from this being probable, the pur port of the bill in quarters likely to be well informed is understood to be, that about two-thirds, or 22,000,000/., of the savings-bank stocks now held shall be abso lutely cancelled, and that in place of that amount a Go vernment money debt shall be created, bearing the same rate of interest (3 , per cent.), and for which half-yearly wa r rants shall be issued to the commissi o ners, in the same manner as dividend warrants have been issued to them heretofore. The process, therefore, will merely be to change the form of the debt from an inscription in the Bank of England books to an inscription in the Treasury books ; and one of the advantages to be gained is, that the liability of the Govern ment to the savin g s bank de positors will thenceforth assume its true form. At this moment the amount of stock held by the commis sioners on account of the savings banks does not represent the actual liability f the co o untry by nearly 3,000,000/., and an apparent deficiency, which has an objectionable look in such matters, has therefore always to be estimated. This deficiency has ori ginated in the fact that the Government hold them selves bound to pay all deposits in full, whatever may be the fluctuations from time to time in the value of the securities in which those deposits have been in vested. They are therefore liable, whenever the funds are low, to sustain all the consequences of the deprecia tion, and, as the deposits always increase when, in con sequence of money being abundant, the funds are high, and as invariably diminish in times of pressure, the Go vernment purchases and sales of stock are necessarily, in a majority of instances, made at the most unfavourable moment. By avoiding any fresh investments of future receipts, and holding them as they would be held by a banker, the Treasury will prevent all recurrence of the mischief, while by retaining one-third of the deposits in their present form of stock the means will exist, as usual, of meeting by sales any excess of withdrawals over de posits that may meanwhile have to be met.—Times' City Article. SCOTCH LEGAL APPOINTMENTS. -Mr. Craufurd, the present Solicitor-General, will be appointed to the va cant seat upon the bench. There being at present an Earl of Crawford thero would be inconvenience in his prefixing " Lord" to his name, and be will . therefore take'his seat as Lord Ardmillan. Mr. Mackenzie, the Sheriff of Ross, obtains, with the full satisfaction of the profession, the gown of Solicitor-General.—Edin burgh Witness. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE Oil' LOli.D6--( YESTERDAY.) THE MILITIA BILL. Tho Duke of NEWCASTLE, on rising to move the second reading of the Militia Bill, and that the standing orders be suspended, in order to allow of its being passed through committee, said—Though in the course of the discussion on the bill now in the House of Commons (the Foreign Enlistment Bill), the bill of which I now move the second reading has been not only repeatedly referred to, but discussed at sorn,3 length, your lordships will naturally expect some observations from me in ex planation of its objects. During our present short sit ting both sides of the house have concurred in the neces sity for establishing a reserve for the forces serving under Lord Ra,glan, in some place or places nearer than the shores of this country, and so distant from the seat of war. I app.ehend that it is not only desirable that we should have in reserve men such as we are about to establish at Malta, that is, the additional four companies to each of the regiments on active service, but that a further reserve should be created in the shape of entire battalions not now employed. Your lordships are aware that though the army of this country consists of a hun dred regiments, a great proportion of them are employed in the colonies and in the Indian service ; and although those which were serving in the colonies have been reduced, as well as those in India, a great pro portion of the army reserves remain at their former amount. Under these circumstances, the Government think it of great importance that they should be enabled to send for ward to the seat of war those regiments which at present constitute the important garrison of Malta, the lonian Islands, and Gibraltar. It is for this purpose the present bill has been introduced. It has been carefully worded, and that is its object. The accommodation in the barracks and other buildings in Malta will be em ployed for the reserve of the depots of regiments serv ing in the Crimea ; therefore, so far as Malta is con cerned, beyond a single regiment no service there will be required. In Gibraltar and the lonian islands the case is different, and without this bill it would be impossible, with respect to the public safety and the service, to reduce these garrisons. The garrison of Malta has been set down at five regiments ; the same proportion is given for the lonian Islands ; and the same for Gibraltar. At present Malta has not that number, for we have, with respect to Malta, somewhat antici pated the decision of Parliament. Though this bill seemed to be misunderstood when you discussed the Foreign Enlistment Bill, your lordships must discard the idea that it is at all compulsory. It was stated as s an objection, that if the bill passed it would be difficult to obtain under it volunteers for the service. I can assure the house that the greatest readiness has been shown by militia regiments in coming forward for the service re quired. (Cheers.) Voluntary offers have been made so general that there has been hardly an exception•—in fact I know not of any exception. The voluntary offers for foreign service have been more numerous than can be required. (Hear.) When I say foreign service, I do not mean service for the colonies, for which this bill is sought, but service for the Crimea. We have not thought it desirable to ask for power to accept these foreign services. The bill was not drawn with that in tention, and it will not bear that construction. If the Government would attempt to employ it for such a pur pose, my noble friend would be the first who would say we are straining an Act of Parliament. This bill is in its character entirely voluntary. It not only requires the colonel of the regiment to propose that the body he commands be sent out, but it requires the consent of every man in the regiment. (Hear.) But the principle goes further ; for it is not only proposed that the consent should be voluntary, but the particular place must be specified, so that if a militiaman volunteers for Malta, we shall not have the power to send him to the lonian Islands or to Gibraltar. The noble earl has said that we have power by the bill to send out the whole of the militia without leaving depots at home for keeping up the service. There is no doubt that, as at first introduced, the bill might have been open to that construction, but as it at present stood, as amended by the Commons, not more than three-fourths of any regiment of militia could be accepted for foreign service, one-fourth being re quired to remain as a depot. Another improvement which has been introduced is, that a limit of five years is placed upon the volunteering, that being the limit for which the militia regiments , were origin - ally enlisted. Observations have also been:lila* as to the non-neces- sity for such a measure as :4 he commencement of the war, but I repeat what .Tifave already stated more than once, that it is at the beairniiiig and not at the close of the war that these additional4owers and exertions are required. It is not fair, as has been done by the noble earl on a former occasion, to compare our condi- tion at the present moment with that of 1808. The corn parison ought in justice to be carried back to 1803. (Hear.) The object of this bill is to enable the Govern ment to have an additional reserve in addition to that oitl;e new battalions to be added to each regiment. The noble earl (Earl Grey) requested on a previous even ing that I would, on moving the second reading of the bill, afford some information as to how far the powers given by Parliament last year for increasing the strength of the army had been complied with. I will endeavour to afford the noble earl this information. Under the provi sions of the Militia Act, the payment made upon the en- rolment of each man in the militia wag an enrolment fee of 1.03., and a sum of Bs. 6d. for other expenses. Under this act a man who had been enliSted for five years could be discharged either with a view of entering the army, or for any purpose of his own, upon the repayment of the sum of 18s. 6d., and finding, an efficient substitute in the militia regiment, from which he sought to be dis- - charged. The first step taken by the Government to encourage the recruiting from the militia into the army was upon the 3d of March, by the repayment of the en rolment fee being remitted in cases where the man sought to be discharged for the purpose of entering into the army. A further step was taken on the sth of April, shortly after the declaration of war, when the payment of the whole sum was remitted if the man seeking to be discharged enlisted in the aeray, before the time for the annual training of tn 9 *giraent to which he be longed, and at t'ie same time - s further sum of 11s, was to be given to the man to compensate him for any pecu niary loss to which he might have been exposed by such a step. In May another regulation was made which removed the whole of the restrictions with respect to the removal of the soldier from the militia to the line. The reduction in the standard applies equally to the militia as to the general population. What the effect of the in creased bounty may be I am not able to state. The army is not yet brought up to its full strength fixed by the votes of last year. There were two separate increases made last year to the army amounting together to 40,000 men ; but although the enlistment has been in the course of the present year larger than in any former year, we have not yet made the full addition of the 40,000 men. 7 :lt must be bomb in mind that, in addition to these 40,000 men, it is • necessary to replace, not merely the ordinary casualties; Arnounting to 12,000 in the year, but also those casual-ties consequent upon the war; so that, in reality, the recruiting which would have been absolutely necessary to complete the establishment would have been something like 00,000 men. I am sorry to say we have not yet reached that point. All I can say is, that at the present time 25 per cent. of the militia will not be sufficient for the purposes of the army and I sincerely hope that, not merely noble lords in the house, but the public at largo, will, so far from throwing any impediments in the way of recruiting among the population, give every possible encouragement in their power. (Cheers.) I have no hesitation in saving that no measures which the Government have proposed that for foreign enlistment or that of which 1 now move for the second reading, will form anything like a substi tute for the enlistment from the general population. Whatever must be done, whether by the militia or else where, we must look for large recruiting to the gene ral population of the country. Without that the army cannot be maintained at such an amount as will enable us to cope with the gigantic power with which we are engaged. As one -mode of increasing the disposable forces at the service of the Government, I hope your lordships will give your assent to the approval of the measure, which, I cannot help thinking, is as right in principle as it will be effectual to the extent it goes for the purpose for which it is designed. (Cheers.) The Earl of DERBY said that it was with deep con cern he heard the announcement of the noble duke, that, notwithstanding all the eaorts which had been male in the course of the presenli year, it had not been found possible to meet the wishes and views and second the endeavours of Parliament by raising the regular forces of the country up to the ; amount sanctioned at the last meeting of Parliament— that is to say, that the addition, plus casualties, of 40,000 men has not been made. He wished that he could concur as fully in the principle and in the mode by which the Govern ment proposed, by the aid of this bill, to carry out the plan, as he did in the objects which the hill proposed to effect. But he believed that, so far from promoting, this bill would rather tend to impede the object which all had in view, and, at the same time, be accompanied b y o ther inconveniences, not the least of which would be an entire change in the character of the miitary ser vice. The militia force of this country was one intended strictly for the maintenance of the domestic tranquillity and the preservation of the country from the danger of foreign invasion, and this to such an extent as to enable the Government to dispense with the presence of almost g sm a a r l i n n y n o f this country had always e the whole of the s mall standing army when occasion recinired its services elsewbeheenrea.n The itandin exceedingly and had always been looked u p on with a considerable' amount of jealousy both by the Parliament and the peopl e . Thi s jealous had, in his opinion, . been pushed to too gr ea t an extent by a principle of false economy, y and the result had been to a grea t extent the difficulty in which th e country now found itself placed wit h res p ect to raising sufficient forces for the army. (Cheers.) The standing army had in fact been reduced to such an amount as made it. not more than sufficient for attend ance on the Crown, in the case of the Guards, and with respect to the line regime n t s , merely sufficient to provide xt'ban was reinforcements or reliefs from time to time for the lar g er t p n o r a t inol the uch greaterarmy, te winlitci The object and uses of th e m i l i tia any exposedw were armyre n servicete abroadworld. for home service, and home service alone. (Cheers.) The militia was an es sentially voluntary force, and it was upon the readiness of the population to voluntee r that theycould alone re I y for keeping. up that militia forc e , and to maintain that readiness on the part of the population it w necessary that there should be a strict adherence • t o the as essentially terms and conditions upon which each regiment was raised. He was desirous of lo o ki ng a t t h e question in volved in the bill in two forms; - first as to the u i e n which it would contribute to supply reinforcements anner for i n the regular army, and next as to the consequ ence which it might have upon the future enlistment of the militia. The noble duke was incorrect when lie stated that this bill would not enable her l\lsjesty to employ any I regiment of militia in any foreign country ether than in the Mediterranean. The variation in this bill from the act of 1812 was very considerable. By the previous act the Crown was restricted to the employment of the forces in Europe. The present bill proposed, however, no stint or rest-i ,, ti n whatever, €•, , en the quarter of the world to which these regiments might be sent, and the consent required from the militia was preciiely the same for the Crimea as for any other place. In 1814 his Majesty was empowered to employ the militia force in any part of Europe, as he might think fit ; the words of this bill, however, were, "any part or place out of the United Kingdom." Whatever might be the intentions of the Government, the words of the bill would give power to send the militia, with their con sent, to the Crimea, just as well as to Gibraltar, Malta, or the lonian Islands. Nor did the proposed bill offer a desirable mode of reinforcing the army in the Crimea in the most efficient manner. The noble duke himself would not deny that the great error which had been made in the course of carrying on the war had been that the Government had not provided an efficient reserve. They had sent thirty, forty, or fifty thousand men to the Crimea, but they had no reserve at hand to support them. At the present moment the garrison of Malta was reduced very much below its ordinary strength, and the same he believed was the case in the lonian Islands. On a previous occasion he had ventured to express his approval of the suggestion which had been made—and which he believed originated in that old-fa shioned quarter, the Herse Guards—(a laugh)—rather than with the new Secretary of State—for forming addi tional battalions to the regiments serving in the Crimea, one-half of which was employed as an advance guard and reserve in the Mediterranean, and the other half to be detained in England as a depot and for the nu cleus for obtaining reinforcements for the army. By this arrangement the battalions at home would supply and prepare the raw recruits, and send them forward, first, to the garrisons of the Mediterranean, whence they would advance, as required, to the scene of action, where they would be valuable as trained soldiers. Now, if the object of the Government were to have in these garrisons as large and as available resources of militia, to fill up the barracks with regiments not to be sent forward to the scene of war, but regiments only available for those particular garrisons to which they were to be sent, it appeared to him that the proposal was one which defeated the very object the Government had in view. The object of the Government, so far as he could understand it, was not only to garrison the islands of the Mediterranean, but to have in each of those ports the largest available force to assist in the Crimea when their services were required. By this bill they would displace a certain number of troops which would be in those garrisons, and they filled those garrisons with troops which could not, according to the intentions of the Government by this bill, be sent to the Crimea. In his opinion it would have been infinitely better to have a small military force constantly in those garri sons—he cared not how small—and to use every exer tion and inducement to encourage the militia, not to embark as a body for foreign countries, but to; enter as recruits into the regular army, and thus keep up a supply of half-trained men, ready to recruit the ranks of the army. He was not disposed to quarrel- with the noble duke, nor to discuss with him at what time it was determined by the Govtrnment to increase the bounty or to lower the standard, and still less was he disposed to claim any credit on the part of those opposed to the Government for having induced them to adopt those measures. They were steps with the propriety and ne cessity of which he fully and entirely concurred. But the effect of the present bill would be to a great extent to neutralise all the beneficial results which might have been expected from the adoption of such a course. It -had been said that this was a volunteer plan, although? it certainly did not appear to be very like a volunteer plan, wh en each regiment, as they had been informed, had been called upon and required by the Government to send 25 per cent. of its forces as recruits to the army; and it was only since that requisition had been made that there had been any large amount of recruits for the array from the militia. Perhaps the noble duke would not refuse to answer this question—although he did not appear dis posed to afford much information in that manner— whether in the case of the militia regiments to be sent into the Mediterranean garrisons any encouragement was or was not to be given to those regiments furnish ing recruits for the line ? There appeared to him to be this double difficulty in connection with the proposed bill. If those regiments were sent out and no permis sion given to the men to volunteer into the line, the Go vernment would be keeping a large force in the Mediter ranean garrisons for a warlike purpose for which it was utterly useless. Supposing, on the other hand, that there was an intention to give encouragement to the men of those regiments to volunteer into the lino, then the Government would run the risk of sending out those regiments of militia to be most materially weakened, and, consequently, of leaving those gar risons unduly weakened, in consequence of the ; encouragement to volunteer which was so afforded. These were the alternatives between which he thought the Government were thrown by the introduction of this _ _ bill and sending the militia into the Mediterranean. The noble duke had said, if those regiments were first formed for foreign service, then they could afterwards accept volunteers for them. He (the Earl of Derby) had no doubt whatever that men who had had a little training, and had formed a taste for military practice, would be found perfectly ready to volunteer into the line from those regiments, and by that means they would obtain more efficient service. But what he was looking at was not the immediate pressure, nor the existing willingness of the militia, to volunteer, but how far, if the Govern ment passed this measure, they could obtain the credit of any miiitary part of the population ? When the Go vernment first enlisted those regiments of militia, there were certain - `conditions under which they were to . be embodied. These were, in the event of foreign invasion and war, and the Government had felt it necessary to ask the special assent of every regiment, and every man in each regiment, previous to his being sent out of the country ; and nothing could have been more proper than the course thus taken. (Cheers.) He had no doubt they would find many of those regiments quite as ready to go to the Crimea as to any of the gar risons abroad. But that was not the question. The question was what were we to do with the agricultural population, if it once became known that, in joining the militia; they were entering a service under the name of the militia, but which might turn out to be something like the regular service of the army 1 Do not tell him that it was voluntary with respect to indi viduals. It was, practically speaking, not voluntary. (Hear.) Depend upon it there would be, in the pre sent circumstances of the country, no great reluctance bn the part of many a man now in the militia to plead his •wn private circumstances and inconvenience for the purpose of escaping from that which would be put before him as a duty, though it was a duty which he never undertook. Well, he might go ; the man now in the militia might go ; but they would find country gentlemen, and persons employed in trade, hesitating very much to enter the militia in future, if they were to have that moral screw placed upon them in the shape of an invitation to volunteer into the regular service. His noble friend behind him suggested to him- what was to become of a man with a family and with small means, who had insured his life, and who had entered into the militia, not, conceiving that it would be any very sanguinary business. His life might be risked by going to an unhealthy climate, and to call upon a man so circumstanced to enter into an arrangement which he never contemplated, he thought was push ing the. voluntary principle to the very extreme. (Hear, hear.) A. very considerable alteration had been made in this bill by an amendment introduced into it at the instance of a right honourable friend of his in another place, whereby a limitation was put as to the proportion of any militia regiment to be allowed to go abroad. He (the Earl of Derby) thought it was a matter of great importance to keep up that which ought never to be broken—the connection of the militia regiments with the country, and even with the county. Send out the whole of a militia regiment—say the Royal Bucks or the Royal Staffordshire—and they at once broke up the connection of the militia with the whole country. Depend upon it, with regard to the militia force, considering its peculiar character, constitution, and duties, it ,was of primary importance that you should connect them not only with the country, but also with the county, and with all denominations of men within that county, from the highest to the lowest in rank. (Hear.) Leave no root in the county, no nucleus, no means of reinforcing the militia, and they broke up its connection altogether with the county, and entirely altered the whole character of the force. (Hear, hear.) This bill professed to be founded ou the 54th Gee. 111., e. 1, in which there was an especial provi sion, precisely to the effect of the provision which had been inserted in this bill, on the suggestion of his right hon. friend in the other house, namely, prohibiting more than three-fourths of any militia regiment going out of the country. He contended that was an inten tional blot on the part of the Government ' • that it was part of the act of 54th Geo. 111., which had been studi ously omitted ; that it Was not an error. He did not desire to interfere with the discretion of the Govern ment. It was with great reluctance that he had been compelled, as a matter of principle, to object to the Foreign Enlistment•Bilf, and upon any matter of less vital principle than was involved in that bill he thought considerable latitude should be given to the Govern ment in the means they took for reinforcing the army at this crisis. He did not intend to offer any opposition to this bill, but he thought it was not unreasonable, seeing that in the year 1814, by the act of 54th Geo. 111., not more than 30,000 of the militia were allowed to be employed at one time out of the United Kingdom .e—that a limit of something like 15,000 men should be vow imposed, when the total amount of the militia in this country was so much inferior to what it was in 1814. Ho objected to this bill, first, because it was not the most efficient or advantageous mode of re cruiting the strength of the army ; and next, upon the ground that, even altered as it had been, it alto gether changed the character of the militia, and ex posed us to serious risk—not now— not in the present year—not under the present excitement—but in future years in reference to our ability in keeping up the permanent supply of the militia. (Hear, hear.) He thought, too, the Government would find themselves under considerable difficulty when they came to deal with the question of bounties. He thought there would be some difficulty in apportioning the amount of bounty to be given to a man volunteering into the militia and to another volunteering into the line. But that was a question with which the Government would have to deal. The proposition of his right hon. friend in another place was that not more than three-fourths of any militia regi ment should ever be sent abroad at any oue time ; and he (Earl Derby) was told that considerable amusement was excited in another place when, on the question be ing asked how ninny were to remain at home, the answer was one-fourth. (A laugh.) It would be very well if that " establislasuent" ll of a militia regiment were to be permitted to servo out that te not t h e more case thanb il t asthe three-fourths h i was of w of the United Kingdom at ono time. Conceiving the of a regiment to be 1,200 men, if THE SUN, LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, DECEMBER 22, 1854. brae-fo u rths 9 o o f thaten so v regiment volunteered but if aregiment abroad,that would in the whole amounted to 900, seeing that that number would not be sufficient to consttatc its " estabbAment, he saw nothing in the bill to prevent the whole 900 leav ing the kingdom; and therefore in such a case one-forth i would not bo left at home. If that was their ntention, he must say the Government had acceded to the words of the amendment, but not adopted its spirit, viz., that there should be, always left in this country at least one fourth of the strength of every militia regiment. He sub mitted also that the bill in many cases would subject the medical officers of militia regiments to inconvenience and hardship. We enlisted militia regiments in certain lo calities—we collected them from persons more or less within those localities—and they were embodied only for a short time. But send them out for five years to a foreign country, and look what the condition of a me dical officer of one of those regiments was. He en tered upon his duties as a medical officer to a mi litia regiment in receipt of very poor pay, but he accepted that pay because he h a d a t th e same time some private practice in the country which he was de sirous of retaining, and, if possible, augmenting. But if he went out to Malta, for instance, with his militia regiment, he went at the ruin of his private practice. He would be entitled to no half-pay when he came back again ; we called upon him to sacrifice his practice and his connections, which formed his means of livelihood for five years, and at the end of that period we turned him loose upon the country. As they were now considering the most effectual mode of carrying on the war, he had a few words to say with regard to that portion of the service by which the blockade of the Russian ports was maintained. They had had the assurance given by the First Lord of the Admiralty at all events, if not by other members of the Government in the other house, on several distinct occasions, that the strictest orders had I been given to blockade the Russian ports as well in the Baltic as in the Black Sea and the White Sea. The blockade took place in the Baltic f rom t h e ear l y part o f June, where it had been ineffectual. It was introduced later in the case of Archangel, where it had also been ineffectual ; and up to this moment the ports of Tagan rog and Odessa were just as in uch open to Russian com merce as if no blockade had ever taken place. Having declared that there would be a blockade of the Russian ports, the Government had invited British industry in every part of the globe to provide substitutes for the produce which came ordinarily through those ports, and what had happened I Why, enterprising merchants acting on that declaration, and bringing home their goods from India and other parts of the world, were met in the English market with the astounding fact that, notwith standing the announcement of a blockade of the Russian ports, the trade with Russia through the Black Sea was as brisk as ever, and our well-wishers, the Greek mer chants, enjoyed the whole advantage of that trade to the detriment of British subjects. He thought their lord ships had a right to ask the Government whether orders had been issued for a blockade, and whether that blockade had been strictly and effectually carried on in the Black Sea. If it had not, that must have been in consequence of orders from the Government, because they had on a very late occasion voted the thanks of Parlia ment to Admiral Dundas and the French admiral for the manner in which they bad discharged their duty in the Black Sea. One of two cases ; either it was an ima ginary statement that the produce of the Black Sea had been poured into the port of London without let or hindrance, or that the Government had not issed orders at all for a blockade or had issued counters for suspend ing that blockade. It was a matter of Parliamentary right that their lordships should insist upon knowing saidowt h h e e whether ( i ti t t thinga• a r t t ho r e u ap e r a. t )r l i a au t rn h ee e n rt begged Maj and es h t ta y' s odanGsokteuvasenlrol actually h m de e or n n t h e n ad an other. ques tion. He might be wrong ; but it was very currently reported that not only goods and merchandise had left the port of Odessa and other ports in the Black Sea, but that ammunition and military stores had also left the port of Odessa for the C r i mea. It was likewise re ported e hopedßus si an princes their lordships t p b s e Gbyovernment whether th a t was t rue . Th e would day uld that the sea.tw-o Glu he a i t r te fr d o O m d t e h ss e a country had a right to be put in full possession of all the facts of the case. He hoped he might be pardoned for deviating a little from the Militia Bill now actually be fore the house into that which appeared to be a material portion of the general scheme of carrying on the war. It was only be c ause he was desirous of not interposing any obstacle in the way of the Government that he abstained from offering any opposition or moving any amendment upon this bill. Earl GRANVILLE said it was quite manifest that in the matter of a blockade, involving in a great degree the interests of trade, it would be most rash not to take care to be strictly and verbally accurate in reference to the answer to be given to any question on such a sub ject ; and it was the delicacy of the matter that had in duced his noble friend not to give an off-hand answer which might possibly be inaccurate. With regard to the blockade of the Baltic certainly some portion of that blockade was not enforced until lately. At certain ports in the Baltic, and also at Archangel in particular, there was a considerable quantity of merchandise the property of British and French merchants, and therefore _ _ it was necessary to postpone the blockade for some tine. Orders were sent out for a strict blockade of the Russian ports of the Black Sea. Those orders were given to the English and French admirals ; but some points of inter national law having arisen, they could Rot be at once carried u o n u i e t a , t o x n e e s p w t e r a e t t n h nn e e e d li i a t a e l n y e e e t t o e r e t d h e intoßla c k Sea. between the two Governments, and, the result was that fresh orders were The troops helicam. to the Crimea, and during that time materials enforce ha d sent out to enforce beenthe blockade. Since the sent enormous out for:an enterprise—tile effectual eloekad conveying on oe ie t y e i a n t gf .. ee: that time the blockade in the stricte s t p oss ibl e manner, an d t o harass the enemy in eve r y p oss ibl e way. entirelys trinwgaen wanting tin orders rde to rs The Earl of DERBY —Wh en was that order sent ? Earl GRANVILLE said the last order was sent two months ago, and the first was sent at the commencement of the war. The noble earl had asked whether enor mous quantities of ammunition had not been sent from Odessa to the Crimea, and whether two Russian princes had not also sailed from that port ? The only answer he (Earl Granville) could give war, that four or five ships had been coestantly cruising in front of Odessa ; and it appeared perfectly impossible to him that such ammuni tion could have left the port, and that the Russian princes could have been sailing in the vicinity of it in the way described by the noble earl. Feather than that he could not answer. With respect to the bill before their lordships, the best plan of all would be that of the noble earl, namely, that while they were waging war in the Crimea they should have perfectly well-trained troops stationed at the garrisons in the Mediterranean ; but the thing they had to d o was that which was practica and that which was possible. The noble earl had stated that there had not been anything like an adequate reserve kept up to reinforce the army in the Crimea. He hardly wished now to argue the whole question of the expedition to Sebastopol ; but be was not sure that it was not better to have sent 5 0000 men at once on such an expedition than to have sent only 25,000, and to have left 25,000 behind them. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the garrisons in the Mediterranean, it would be better, no doubt, to have perfectly well-trained men sta tioned there ; but at the present crisis it was not prac ticable, and he thought, both in a military and in an administrative point of view, it was not desirable to gar rison our forts in the Mediterranean with perfectly raw recruits. He thought the plan of recruiting from the militia for the defence of those places was not a bad one ; but there was not found that immense readiness en the part of the men in the militia to volunteer for that service, as was generally supposed. He thought with respect to the general question that measures of this sort were brought forth in great crisis, and be thought our-Parliamentary system, admirable as it was, ought not to be stretched with the view of discovering flaws in such measures. Earl GREY said he did not think it required any microscopic power to discover flaws in the bill before their lordships. He objected to that bill because he thought it was wrong in principle, and departed from the whole design of the Militia Bill which Parliament sanctioned three years ago. He th oug ht th e o bject of that Militia which was to cons i st of persons who, not adopt i ng the military life as th e i r profession, and inten di ng to k eep up the ordina r y avocations of civil life, were yet w i lling Bill was to cre a t e a defensive force for the country, to devote a certain portion of their time in order to acquire a fitness to defend the country in case of danger or emergen c y o f any kind. The M i l i t i a Bill of 1852 differed conside ra bl y from our f ormer m ili t i a acts. There was a s p ec i al prevision intro d uce d i nto it, that, even in times of war, the militia was not to be employed except in cases of actual invasion or rebellion. It was not intended that the militia wee to be a force con stantly and perManently embodied, as in the case of the last war. Acting on that principle, men went into the militia both as officers and privates, who would not have entered into it if it had been thought they would be taken from their usual civil pursuits. Everybody knew that the rapid augmentation of the army was an object of the greatest importance, and why was not the standard lowered as soon as, or even be fore, the increase was voted by the other House of Par liament ? It might he said that it was too late to look back, and he admitted that they could not repair the errors of a delay which was to him unaccountable ; but admitting that, he contended that to adept this plan of encouraging militia regiments to volunteer for foreign service was to adopt an erroneous principle, a n d b a d policy for the conduct of the var. It would probably spoil the militia, for the sake of measures which would have a less effect in accomplishing an increase of the army than others which might have been adopted. At the same time, he agreed with the noble earl opposite that it was not expedient to reject this measure. His object in stating his objections was to check, for the future, perseverance in what seemed to him a most erro neous line of policy, and not to refuse those powers for which the Government applied to Parliament. It was on this principle that he had acted on a previous night in favour of a measure which he certainly did not eon- sider free from objection ; and on this principle, although strongly disapproving of this measure, he should nut vote against it. Lord DENIVIAN was understood to support the bill as a proper appeal to the public spirit and patriotism of the country. The Duke of ARGYLL said that it must be admitted that it we had a large standing army the Government would never have asked the militia regiments to volun teer even for garrison duty, but not having such a large standing army, or a numerous army of reserve, they had to remove troops from garrison duty, and were in conse quence obliged to ask militia regiments to perform it. There must bo objections to any measure which put it in the power of militia regiments to go beyond the kill dotp, because such a force was mainly intended for the defence of our own shores ; but he thought that these objections had been greatly exaggerated in the course of the discussion. There was a precedent for this measure, and he could not see how the distinction drawn by the noble earl opposite between the two told against this measure. It was a greater hardship to extend a compulsory than a voluntary service in the militia, and he really could not see that there was any hardship in giving the militia the option of performing garrison duty. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH objected to this measure, which he characterised as one equivalent to a general producing at the beginning of a battle the whole of his reserves. It was in fact, killing the goose that laid the golden eggs. Men had entered freely at first because they were told their services would only be re• quired for a few weeks at a time, and for a short period of years ; but now, when it was proposed to send the regiments abroad, he could not suppose that men—at Last married men—would enlist at all. After a few words from the Earl of GLENGALL, The bill was read a second time, and, the standing orders having been suspended for that purpose, the house immediately went into committee on the bill. The va rious clauses passed unaltered, and the bill was _ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. THE FRIGATE THETIS. The Earl of HARD WICKE said he had two ques tions to ask the Government, of which he had given them notice. It was not so much to get an answer for himself as to bring before their lordships' notice a case which bore on the subject of the war in which we were engaged. The first question was with respect to an ex change said to have been made between this country:and Prussia, and which certainly appeared in itself a small matter according to the answer elicited from the First Lord of the Admiralty. He (the Earl of Hard wicke) had lately been down at Chatham, and he had seen in the deck her Majesty's ship Thetis, and he had been told by an officer there that she was about to be exchanged with the King of Prus sia for two gun-beats. He felt exceedingly surprised at hearing of such a change, particularly as she was a vessel well known to him, as he had been in an experimental cruise in that ship. He was the more struck with this exchange, knowing that this ship was constructed on a superior plan, and was one of the best of her class—in fact, was herself a model of perfection. (Hear.) He should not have taken further notice of this if he had not been informed that a right hon. gen tleman in another place had stated at one time that there was an exchange—then that there was a conversation about an exchange—and then that the exchange was not completect—then, further, that the exchange was for an old frigate—and a matter of that sort of importance which was of little value. No man better knew the force of language than the First Lord of the Admiralty ; and when he said that this was an exchange for an old ship, he understood well the meaning that would be put on his words. Taking them in the ordinary sense, they implied that the ship was not of much value. But that ship was built in 1846, and has turned out an exceed ingly fine frigate, and is one of the best of ships in point of form and strength. She is 1,500 tons burden, and must have cost the country between 40,0001. and 50,0001. —and the other day, when he saw her, she had received a complete refit in her rigging. As a grave and mer cantile transaction this was a question of great import ance. When he considered the cost of that vesesl, and then considered the probable cost of the gun-boats, which could not be worth more than between 5,0001. and 6,0001. a-piece, he thought such a transaction was worthy the attention of the Commons when the esti mates cause to be voted ; and if ever there was a case in which the First Lord of the Admiralty should be made to pay the difference to make up for a bad bar gain, this was that case. He would make no comment on this, for it was a matter of fact ; but the First Lord of the Admiralty had evidently not carried out his favourite principle in this bargain, and gone to the cheapest mar ket. With respect to the gun-boats they were built by Mr. Scott Russell, and yet that gentleman had been sent to Prussia to see whether these boats were fit to be exchanged, and used in her Majesty's service. He supposed Mr. Russell had gene to Prussia on a mission at the expense of the Crown. Well, he came back, and he saw they were admirable boats for the Government, and quite fit for the Baltic. (A. laugh.) He (Lord Hard wicke) did not think they were fit for the Baltic ; and it was quite evident Prussia did not think they were fit far the Baltic, or she would not be so anxious to part with them. He had taken the liberty of stating these things to their lordships in order that the public should know that this change was not a beneficial one ; and the answer he anticipated from the Government that evening would, he believed, directly contradict that given in an other place by the First Lord of the Admiralty. The fact was, the boats had arrived from Prussia, the bar gain was climpleted, and this country was about to give a ship of a value between thirty and forty thousand pounds for two gun-boats not worth more than twelve thousand. The Earl of CLARENDON hoped, if his right hon. friend the First Lord of the Admiralty was to be made to pay the difference in case of a bad bargain, that he would be allowed to pocket the difference in case he made a good bargain. (A. laugh.) He (the Earl of Clarendon) proposed to give his noble friend opposite all the infor mation he could, and, although not aware of what his right hon. friend in the other house had stated— (a laugh) —all he would undertake to state were the facts— (laughter)—and he had not the least doubt they would correspond with what was stated by his right hon. friend. The propoeal first came from the Prussian Ge ment, who wished to increase their marine, and they de sired to exchange two gun-boats for two ships of a class called denkeyirigates ; and the answer her Majesty's Government gave to that proposition was, that we had no donkey-frigates to dispose of. (A.laugh.) But Ihere_ was_themeeezia—a...4.o.—a--r---a-44—wws-proposed to 'eichange the Thetis for two gun-boats, if on a survey they should be found suitable to our -purpose. A survey was then made of these gun-boats. Re did not know if Mr. Scott Russell was the builder, but he believed they must have cost a great deal more than 5,000/. or 6,0001. a piece, for they carried two or three mortars. He considered them most desirable boats, such as her Majesty's Government wished to get in the month of June. His noble friend beside him said that these gun-boats were worth between thirty and forty thousand `pounds. (Hear.) However, some delay took place, and the negotiation remained so, and in De cember his right hon. friend said that her Majesty's Government no longer wished to have them ; but the Prussian Government said that they considered an agree ment for the exchange had been made, and then the First Lord of the Adniiralty said that the Government would not go back from their word. These were the facts, but he was not aware that the Thetis had under gone a thorough repair, as was stated by the noble lord. On the contrary, He understood that it would take 8,0001. to put her in thorough repair, and she was to be banded over to the Prussian Government without her armament. (Hear.) STATE OF THE HARBOUR OF BALAKLAVA. The Earl of HARDWICKE had a second question to put, respecting the port and road of Balaklava, that most important position for the army in the Crimea, as on the state and condition of that port depended the means of feeding and relieving our forces. He had been induced to take notice of the state and condition of the port of Balaklava, in the first instance, in consequence of the afflicting circumstances which followed the disas trous storm of the 14th November. It was unnecessary for him to attempt to describe what had occurred. The effects of that tremendous hurricane had been faithfully reported. Among the losses during that storm there was one ship the circumstances of which were peculiar, in con sequence of her having coming outfrom England contain ing almost everything that was necessary for the relief and assistance of the army in the Crimea, and she had besides money to a large amount. It was well known that that ship perished. (Hear.) It would be presumptuous to say that that ship could have been saved, but ho could assert that it washis conviction, if the regulations of the port of Balaklava were such as ought to prevail in any such port, that ship (the Prince) ought to have been saved. It had been stated that that ship had not been com manded in the manner she ought to have been ; and he knew from an officer that so ill had she been commanded that his attention had been drawn to the fact ; the Go vernment was advised as to the inability of the officer who had charge of her to command her properly. (Hear, hear.) When she arrived off the port o f Balaklava, it was well understood that she was taken in with such velocity, and in so unseamanlike manner, that she lost two of her anchors. She was brought up in such a way that she ran her two cables out to a pinch, and thus they parted. What followed and whit was done by the officer in charge of the port ? This ship was forced to anchor outside with one anchor, probably her sheet an chor. It was not stated whether she had one or two anchors, or an anchor at all. How is it she was not re ceived in the port of Balaklava, or, if necessary, why did not some of the men-of-war there supply her with anchors 3 Why was a ship of that nature required to take an offing ? The whole affair showed the grossest want of seamanship on the part . of the captain of the unfortunate ship, and of neglect on the part of the officers in authority over the harbour. He would read an extract from a document which he did not think her Majesty's Government would pooh-pooh l So correct had been the statements made by the reporters in the Crimea and the Black Sea that he did not think her Majesty's Government would say that it was merely a newspaper report, or say that it was not true. If they did, his purpose would be answered. The reporter, writing on the 25th of November, from Balaklaia, s a ys :_« Will it be credited that, with all our naval officers in Balaklava with nothing else to do—with our embarras des rickesses of captains, commandev, and lieutenants, there is no more care taken for the vessels in Balaklava than if they were colliers in a gale off Newcastle ! Ships come in and anchor where they like, do what they like, go out when they like, and are permitted to perform whatever vagaries they like, in accordance with the old rule of higgledy pig gledy, rough and tumble, combined with ' happy-go lucky.' " So much for the state of the port. It was easy for an officer who understood his business to have provided for a different state of things there, and it was most extraordinary that there was no responsible officer sent by her Majesty's Government to that port, capable of establishing an d maintaining the ordinary regulations. He did not say that the Government ought to be made to answer for all the small details of such a port, but he thought they should be made answerable for placing such an officer in charge of it as would be fully compe tent for his duty and responsible for the due performance of it. In addition to this, such was the state of the port, that, long after this terrible disaster, there was a collection of the debris of every sort of article knocking about. The same reporter said :—" Indeed our cavalry is at present employed in feeding itself. It is all they have to do. The men are sent down with their horses from tho camp to the waterside every day, and carry back their fodder and rations. It is perfectly disgrace ful to the authorities, whoever they may be, to see on this, the twelfth day after the g ale, trusses of compressed hay mpressed hay floating about a nd rottin g in every direction in the harbour, w hile our horses are dying of sheer inanition. Scandalous ' neglect and indifference to the interests of the publie service are chargeable somewhere or another in this matter. The compressed hay would have kept sweet for many days had it been fished out even within the week after it floated out of the wrecks, and the slight hr-pr.!,, , nation of the outer portion by salt water would not have rendered it at all distasteful to the horses. But no ; we are all `Jolly miller wights' out here, and care for nobody or nothing, and so the fodder floated and bobbed about, stranded on the fringe of unutterable abominations and corruptions by the beach, floated off again, and rotted and stank, and stinks and rots, while the animals are half starving. In the same way the immense amount of timber which washed about the harbour and on the coast outside, and which would have answered for hutting all the army, and for fuel, was permitted to drift out again the other day when the freshet set in to the head of the harbour after the rains and when the wind blew off the shore, and very little of it was saved, though woe betide the luckless wretch who may be found by the provost marshal walking off with a piece of wood for his but without an order." He (Lord Hardwicke) called th e attention of their lordships to this case, in full confi dence that the Government would take immediately every means in their power to put the harbour of Ba laklava in a proper condition. (Hear.) 'He did not fear for ships in the roadsted of Balaklava, if properly handled. He had stated last year, and he was still of that opinion, that a fleet might winter safely in the Black Sea. He would not say a word against any officer in the navy, but he would say that any officer who would allow his ship to get on a lee shore there, either in a gala or with an enemy, was not fit to com mand her. Such was the form of the land that, with an offing of 20 miles, a ship could be in safety from any gale. The only gale that was dangerous in the Black Sea was the south-west, but if there was a good offing obtained, and warning taken in time, any ship might ride out the gale in safety; as to a steam-ship there was ne question at all.- He made these statements 1 with no unfriendly feeling. (Hear, hear.) He felt that the port of Balaklava c•i%ifi the basis of our opera tions, and on the state of the port depended, if not the success, the sustenance and comfort of the army in the Crimea. His question was, who was the responsible officer of the port of Balaklava. But he had no desire to be answered directly. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he was extremely glad that the question had been mooted in Parlia ment, and especially by the noble lord who was a member of the naval profession, as it was a question of paramount and vital intereet. He oould not but admit, although all that had been said and written on the subject was not absolutely correct, that there had evidently been cases of neglect and want of fore thought and attention to the wants of the army ; which might in future be prevented by that pressure of Parlia ment coming in aid of the remonstrance made by him self and other members of the Government. Before pro ceeding to put the question put by the noble earl he should express his regret that 'he had brought up the question of the disqualification of the captain of the Prince. He assured his noble friend that it was by no means an established fact, and considering that that in dividual, whether qualified or disqualified, had perished with his ship, he regretted that anything should have been said till what was undergoing investigation should have been decided. It was extremely painful to the feelings of that gentleman's family, and it was but fair to wait the results of the inquiry which had been insti tuted some days ago. (Hear, hear.) His noble friend should recollect, when he complained of the loss of this ship, that it was lost in a storm of no ordinary character. Generally speaking, in those latitudes there was a suffi cient offing to get out of the way, and not be caught on a lee shore ; but, it was not an ordinary storm, but an extraordinary hurricane. His noble friend said he did not charge the Government with any neglect in re spect to the details of the port, but he held them respon sible for the appointment of sufficient and competent officers. Ho ,agreed in that proposition of the noble lord, and if noble lords and right hon. gentlemen, and all those in and out of Parliament, dealt in the same spirit with the Government, they would have no right to complain. That was a fair responsibility ; but to say that if officers in the Crimea were in want of a change of linen it was the fault of the Secretary-at-War was an absurd assertion. He admitted it was the bounden duty of the Government to appoint fitting instruments, and he thought he could satisfy his Noble friend that they had not been deficient in the present case. He asked who was the responsible naval officer in charge of the port of Balaklava ? From the 10th of March to the 17th Octo ber Sir Edmund Lyons was the responsible officer, and he thought his noble friend would admit that a more responsible officer than Sir Edmund Lyons could not be found. (Hear.) Sir Edmund Lyons held the situation till the 17th October, when he left for the purpose of attacking Fort Constantine, which operation he con ducted with suoh gallantry. (Hear.) Since then he has been otherwise engaged in the public service. A captain in her Majesty's service was the person who succeeded him, Captain Dacres, of the Sanspareil. Captain Dacres was the responsible officer till he was invalided on or about the 14th November—he did not know the exact day. He was not certain who succeeded Capt. nacres, but he had reason to believe that Captain Drummond of the Retribution was the gentleman. Commander Powell, of the Vesuvius, was the beach-master. Admiral Boxer, who was in command of the transport service in the Bosphorus. had been ordered up, and Admiral Stop ford was to succeed him. These were the responsible parties at the respective periods named, and he thought that his noble friend would admit that they were offi cers fully competent for the discharge of the duties confided th.m_ . irregularities, errors, and acts of culpable negligence should have occurred to produce the lamentable con• sequences to which his noble friend had felt it his duty to call their lordships' attention. The statement read by his noble friend hal appeared in print ou Monday or Tuesday. He should undoubtedly feelit his duty again, by the mail that would leave this country on Monday, to call on Lord Raglan to make immediate inquiry into the acts of gross neglect which must have taken place, and to report immediately who were the culpable par ties. He should give the same directions for a strict in quiry as he had already felt it his duty to give in the case of the loss of the Prince. Instructions should be immediately sent out to Admiral Lyens to institute in quiries, with the view of ascertaining the parties with whom the culpability rested, and of preventing, if pos sible, such disastrous accident from °enuring in future. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH did not rise to offer any observations on the points particularly touched upon by his noble friend, but he wished to call their lordships' attention to what had been stated in reference to the steam-ship the Prince. It bad been represented that the whole of the warm clothing and medical stores were conveyed in that vessel, but that the medical stores were placed iu the bottom of the held with all the other stores above them, so that the medical stores being wanted at Scutari they could not be got at for landing without first removing the heavy articles, and this being found impossible it was necessary to take them on to Balaklava. Now that of itself showed great misman agement on the part of the persons charged with the stowing of that vessel, and he thought it would be well that there should be some persons appointed who should be particularly responsible for the stowage of all ves sels in the public service. But what he particularly wanted to suggest to the noble duke was, that every cargo sent out to the Crimea should be an assorted cargo, and that in no case should there be put on board of one vessel the whole of the stores of the same descrip tion, because, in the event of the vessel being lost, the whole bulk of the stores of one description would be lost likewise, and the army be left utterly destitute of a supply of such articles. It was an essentially uniform principle that every cargo should be perfect in itself, and should be an assorted cargo, containing a portion of each class of articles, however small, and then, if you lost one ship, you would suffer comparatively little, be cause the several ships, in a manner, insured each other making up each other's deficiencies. The Duke of NEWCASTLE had not seen the state ment to which the noble earl referred, and certainly was not aware that any newspaper or individual had ever stated that the whole of the medical stores and warm clothing were on board the steamer Prince. But this he could assure the noble lord, that if any such statement was made, no statement more incorrect certainly was over put forth, because every ship or transport conveying stores, with the excep tion of those that carried the battering train, had invariably carried. out an assorted cargo. Thus, for example, in the case of the very vessel whose unfor tunate loss they had had so much reason to deplore. The Prince carried out a regiment of soldiers ; it carried nut besides a considerable quantity of ammunition ; it carried out also a large amount of medical stores and warm clothing. So far from all the medical stores, how ever, having been placed on hoard that vessel, it was in fact the fifth or sixth consignment of such stores which had been sent out, and it certainly was not the last. Again, so far from all the warm clothing for the troops having been placed in that ono ship, he rejoiced to 3:3y that nothing could be further from the fact. Tile Prince certainly carried out a considerable quantity of warns clothing, which was lost ; but since then various ships hal arrived out with warm clothing, and a great number of the troopsbad obtained this comfort. The Jura arrived almost immediately after the loss of the Prince with a considerable quantity of warm clothing on board, and he believed tkero was hardly a ship which had left this country for the Crimea during some time past which had not carried out warm clothing of some description or another, and es special care ha d been taken never to semi out in the same ship the whole of the articles of one description, so as to avoid the risk of losing them. Thus houses and lodges for covering the troops had been sent out on board several different ships. So far had this point been attended to that there had arisen in consequence serious difficulty. Perhaps noble lords were sometimes too little inclined to make allowance for the great difficulties existing in these matters, He did not say that either the Government or the subordinates and officers employed by them abroad were without blame, but he said that great allowance ought to be made for the difficulties ne cessarily attending this class of business. A n asso rted cargo led to considerable embarrassments in the case of such enormous ships as the Prince, unle ss the whole of the cargo were embarked at one port. In that case it happened that the medical stores were put onboard in the river, and placed in the bottom of the hold ; the vessel afterwards went te '%Voolwich for ammunition and ma chinery; then to Portsmouth for other stores ; and List of all she took on board a regiment. It might, perhaps, be possible in future to make arrangements by which all stores of one description should be shipped at a pa r . ticular port, though at considerable expense and incon venionee. The Earl of IIfrEDWICKE would suggest to his noble friend that in every port where stores were shipped there should be placed some responsible officer to take chargo of the cargo, so that he might be thoroughly ac• quainted with the articles composing it, and it might be stowed under his own eye. This would be of the greatest service both iii the river Thames and the principal naval ports, and would give every facility for conveying the iitTP f 4 4 .74.474 01, .114. 1 different stores and articles safely and accurately to their several d est i na t ions. Lord ABINGER begged to suggest to the noble duke to establish at Balaklava some office for the dist ribu tion and delivery of goods consigned to the army. At present officers experienced the greatest difficulty in getting the goods and parcels that were consigned to them. This difficulty might be judged of from the fact that the baggage of the army had arrived in the Crimea, and had not been distributed up to this very moment ; it was tossing somewhere about the Black Sea, but nobody knew exactly where, and there was no responsible person to undertake its delivery. Nei. ther was there a sufficient train of baggage waggons attached to the army. The Duke of NEWCASTLE wished to say that he had already made an arrangement of the nature and for the end suggested, tkough whether it had been successful or not he was unable to state. About four or five months ago, finding that the commissariat would not be able to manage this department satisfactorily, he applied to his right hon. friend Sir Thomas Fremantle, the chairman of the Zoard of Customs, to select six or eight landing waiters who should undertake the conduct of this duty. They had been accordingly appointed and sent out, being made a branch of the commissariat, with uni forms, in the hope that, by their aid, confusion and inaccuracies in the baggage department might be obvi ated. How far the arrangement had effected this objeot he could not undertake to say, but he should not omit to make inquiry on this head also. The conversation then dropped, and their lordships adjourned at half-past ten o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMO NS—(YESTERDAY.) ENLISTMENT OF FOREIGNERS BILL. Upon clause 1 being put, Mr. L. KING moved the following proviso—" That no contract with foreign soldiers shall be latulblaunfodreratnhve provisions of which this country shall be payments, excepting to officers disabled by wounds caco. continue beyond the period of one year after th e tion of a definitive treaty of peace." Mr. S. HERBERT said that it was not the intention of the Government to give pensions, but merely half-p ea to those who were wounded, and also to the widows, and h e begged of the hon. gentleman to withdraw his proviso. Mr. S. KNOX wished to know whether these foreign soldiers would be entitled to receive aid from the Patriotic Fund ? Mr. S. HERBERT—They certainly would not come under the terms of the commission authorising the Pa triotic Fund, which was ()entailed to tha g iving of posainyta to the widows and children of soldiery in the existing Bri tish army in the East, and it would be a breach of faith towards the subscribers to apply it to any other purpose. Mr. S. KNOX wished to know from what foreign conn• try these soldiers were to be obtained. (Laughter.) Would they be Irish ? Mr. W. WILLIAMS galled the attention of the Govern ment to the necessity of carefully examining every inven tion in the machinery of war which was submitted to them. Tho proposals on this subject were usually referred to a committee of engineers, who would not see anything worthy of merit in them. All experiments ought to be fairly tried. One individual had an invention by which he declared that one man at the battle of Inkerman would do as much execution as eight. It was also found that the percussion caps would not explode when they became damp. Now there was an invention in percussion caps which was tested by experiment, the result of which was that, whereas the ordinary percussion cap would not ex plode when wet, the improved percussion cap exploded after being under water for 24 hours. Mr. F. SCOTT wished to know, as there seemed to be some misapprehension oa the subject, whether officers would be entitled to half-pay under this bill. Mr. S. HERBERT—Certainly not. There should be Parliamentary sanction or Queen's warrant to enable offi cers to receive half-pay. Neither existed in the present case. Mr. HENLEY wished to know what would be the posi tion of the wives and children of the men who enlisted under the bill. As he understood the law they would have to be supported by the ratepayers of this country. (Hear.) The Germans who were so frequently mentioned, coming to this country for the purpose of emigration, would be accompanied in many cases by their wives and child ren, and if the men enlisted in the service of this country, the wives and children would be chargeable on the parish of the port from which they embarked. Being denaturalised by their own sovereigns; they could not be sent back again, and he wished to know whether they were to be main tained out of the national fund, or out of the the rates of Hull, Liverpool, or Portsmouth, or from wherever else their husbands embarked. Mr. S. HERBERT said the question was a very im portant one. At the time of the formation of the German Legion, the wives and children of the men remained at home, so that this question did not arise. But in the case of German emigrants being taken as recruits at present the Government would of course, on account of the diffi culty'euggerited by the right hon. gentleman, select single men. If there were married men whose services from their eligibility it would be desirable to secure, their wives and children might preceded them to the colonies to which they were going. Mr. HENLEY said that the facilities of communication were much greater now than formerly, and no doubt they would be accompanied by their wives and children to a much greater extent. The thirty thousand Germans who came here annually were said to be between 25 and 30 years of age. They were th ere f ore no t mere boys, and they cou ld not imagine 30,000 of such men without having many wives and children. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) As sure as the sun was in heaven the wives and children of the men would find their way to this coun try, where there was a right of maintenance, whereas there was none in their own country. (Hear, hear.) He hoped the Government would consider the question, which was admitted to be an important one, before the third reading of the bill, and inform the country how these people were to he dealt mith. (Hoar. hear.) Mr. R. PUILLIMORE thought that the right hon. gen tleman was right in the view he took. If a foreign state gave letters of denaturalisation to a portion of its sub jects, those persons ceased to be the subjects of that state. If they entered the service of another state, that state was bound to defend and protect them in all the subsequent condition of their lives. (Hear.) If that was a correct view of the law, the Government ought to consider its bearings on the present case. (Hear.) • Sir J. PAKINGTON said he understood the right hon. gentleman to say that it was intended by the Government that the wives and children should, in some instances, pre cede their husbands to the colonies to which they meant to go. He did not understand the right hon. gentleman to say that it was intended to send these soldiers ultimately to the colonies, though he heard rumours out of doors to that effect. This was the first public reference in the house with regard to the sending them to the colonies. He was justi fied, therefore, in calling on the Government to explain what their intentions really were. (Cheers.) Mr. S. HERBERT said that the right hon. gentleman slightly misunderstood the expression he used when he said it was the intention of the Government to send so many of these persons to the colonies out of the whole number they might get. He was informed that it would be possible to obtain the services of a certain number of Germans who were in the habit of coming to this country for the purpose of emigrating to Canada, the United States, or Australia. But ho was not speaking of the gross number, nor did he mean to say that they were to consist of that or any other denomination of persons. The Government might obtain the services of persons in transitu, and after those services were over, he saw no greater reason against their going to the colonies than if their services were not asked for in the intermediate time. Of course no Government would think of sending out a large body of men to the colonies against the will or without the consent of the colonies. But the right hon. gentleman must be well aware that there was great anxiety in Australia to obtain German settlers, especially from the banks of the Rhine, with a view to the cultivation of the vine and the making of wine. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DRUMMOND said it appeared that the only defini tive idea the right Lou. gentleman had was to set a gin trap and catch some Germans in transitu, but when a man set a gin he ran an equal chance of taking a pheasant or a polecat. (Laughter.) The question of the right hon. mem ber for Oxford (Mr. Henley) was a very serious one. In Bavaria, and in some of the neighbouring petty states, a most cruel and wicked law was in force, which prevented persons from marrying until they gave security for the support portof the future family; the result was that not one in eight of the labouring population were legally married, and many questions of that kind would arise regarding persons enlisted under the bill. He considered that these Men were entitled to their half pay, otherwise they would be nothing but national assassins. (Hear.) What was an assassin but a person hired to stab or murder any one that you had a quarrel with? Not to give these men a retiring allowance was to set a premium on plunder. How were they to subsist in peace if they got no half pay • they could not ho expected to save m one y ou t of their all owance. Ho thought Government ought to put them on the same foot ing as our own countrymen, and give them half pay Mr. S. HERBERT reminded the hon. gentleman that our own men were not entitled to half pay till after a cer• tain number of years' service. Mr. BANKES thought the ques tion raised by the right honourable m em b er f or Oxford was one of great import ance to the ratepayers of the country. In justice to the men they should support their families, and he thought the bill ought not to pass this committee until the point was fully considered.. Mr. V. SMITH wou ld sugof War gest to the Secretary that some very g ra ve colonial questions were involved in thep r i: oposed scheme of emigration. m BOOKER wished to know where these men were to be located whether in the manufacturing or t he rural dis tricts ; great anxiety existed on the point. In the former acts there was a provision that they should not be gua :4 to r tai..,l at a greater dist ance than 5 miles from the seaeoa. Mr. S. KNOX asked if it was intended send these regiments troops there, r. t r n , i i, : , i c i o l on t i h es ey t w o erelieve be t he was no intention . of Mr. S. HERBERT said that there officered English i officered by Ger. ast war the German legion was wholly sending them to the colonies. As to the officers, in the 1. mans. Mr. OTWAY suggested to the Secretary of War the propriety of employing the officers on thehalf - pay list ; a largo number of them were able and willing to serv o , Mr. GROGAN said that these Germans would not be well received in the colonies. In Germany it wan Coll• si.lered a disgrace to enlist for pay, and a stigma would always attach to the men. Mr. F. SCOTT thought that before the discussion p ceeded the Secretary at War ought to answer some of the important questions that had been put to him. Mr. S. HERBERT would endeavour to give as much information as possible. As to the offi cers, he had not in tended to express any ; decision as to English or Germ an o fficers ; he only quoted a precedent ; it was a qu estion which should be left to th e discretion of the military no. thorities. It was a mistake to suppose that there were a large number of available officers on the half-pay list ;it had been closely scrutinised when the army was augmented some time since, and ho believed that every officer fit for active service wes then employed. As to the location of these troops he did not anticipate there would be any dif ficulty: in finding places in England to receive them for the short time they would remain. As to the emigra tion ho did not mean to conve y that the Government bad come to any conclusion on the subject ; he only stated that it had been represented to him by persons conversant with the German emigration that as a large number of these people annually passed through this country, some of them might be induced to serve for a limited period, on the understanding that they would afterwards Le conveyed to their destbiation. It had been truly said that very im portant colonial questions were involved—great difficulties must necessarily arise ; and it might be that, when they came to consider the details of the plan, it would be found impossible to work it. Colonel DTJNNE considered that the families of these men ought to be supported by the Government, and not left , to the charity of the country, as these of our own soldiers were. (Hear, hear.) As to the half-pay, he k%~~`~~ ~S :!,