The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-01 00:00:00

ti t s . Jaltie ° dist e . e nu the courtmartial bench. And under YOO trellis/stances? See, think of what you arc doing. tre acd t o nnw employing the army in raising tithes. (Ife a ,:r°r , rove the army are to adjudicate upon them.— aPply th Lord Althorp declares that be does not mean to 'ta t , It e _ Act to the tithes. He does not mean it ! Look fad says"t The Irish Secretar • contradicts Lord Althorp, Pasit, ds t hat offences conneCted with tithes shall he lla Act 0 1 , the courtsmertial. —(He tr.) Now, look to Or ta igt ` rne t t 9eor ge M . c 57, combination against tithes. 41 111, 4. 1 ' 1 g a clergyman in their collection by any un rdattarn. "'as, i 5 made a crime, and this statute gives the let the erred „, cognizance of the offence, because it embo- Yoos d . s'allse in its enactments. It is then, clear, be- I t sta te ls t Pute , , that . this Act is to have the effect of ex all ts n abominatile impost by means of martial law, ex dad isl e : f fi.cer of the army, who has been impeded on one Pttat si , Ying the tithes in any way, is to try the wretched Itgy i. Y th e next - tie v .` r e deep] ,for an offence in ' which his . own feel .le ite a! J engaged,_-( Hear, hear.) Admirable le it to b The Judge is not only to be a soldier, but 1 5 titai i e a Party in his own cause. Well, indeed, r t i l it statute deserve the encomiums which are founded es ' one . • and ._ t word zee pi-a inimitable eh-tract. ristics. t eta l . ) , more and he should have done. The Irish Se ts!iltatlPPealad to the House for confidence founded on :ate, He of the Mieistry. His political life has been 1 ,0 4 ? e started the champion of the Church, is still its N e d ' took affice under Mr. Canning, and accom- N4 i r l eat thing s in carrying Reform. There were ru's't ° , 3 e Past lives do indeed stand in a melancholy ‘ 4 .ka i l a P t l . t t h their present opinions. Alas, Sir, they 1,7 te e d. ` n r !Y . are only depriving us of liberty, when Is tgti ty . wing themselves of the opportunity of ever tOpi ts : . !t , advocates. They are deserting the lofty i i7l tept ~the a ramparts of the Constitution, on which k et ts i tt l n sleepless watch. How will they ever he !It ry? to raise their voices against coercion in this c - 'elte• When t h e w h ee l of official fortune, which is I kle t°oca s i a tr t rotations, shall have gone round. and those Os saw r on its giddy top shall occupy a different po- E t th wis an those who now occupy th e Tr easur y i t stit tv aa so much dignity, shall r eturn t o t h e i t I t al ) '•e h they once fill e d w i t h so muc h h onour, 1 2tla tit be deemed necessary in the midst of 0 7 , 4 1 rb ances i an,i which may arise even in this pros- Nsal • -", to have recourse to measures, in abridgment a-Iline freedom, Ne to ez eedom, what can they say ? Should they i t lis teti,t. postulate, may not the new Minister, with t e ,Pti o „, a 'e ee.ntlenees, in which he is so accomplished an it 7 e t , P a 7n this statute, and with an impressive gravity s, stla"urtmartial clause ?—(Loud cheers.) And may ki.e,,,r,si,7itb less effect, but greater vehemence, ex . f t ,:sf t h '' 'W . can you presume to stand up as the arty°- a ti ntr op ? People h ere ? Did you not a b an d on a ll your ' sOs th lon ma? Did you not fling your r e cord e d pro ' qay eu e r W inds' Did you not akandon the principles on i t o t , entire political conduct was so long founded ? 1 th t suppress discussion, beat liberty to the earth, i • Cis irepabeas Corpus Act, destroy the freedom of the tab„ s and, overthrow all justice, hurl down the or a (Lesr te. " n als, and raise on their ruins the legislation of „. If th guards, and the judicature of the camp ?" ; ' A t1i,,7 1 1.) Forb e ar ! while th ere i s ti me , f or b ear ! (O tore atue stab with which you strike at our liberties liss, d You will commit suicide upon your own.— ter. t t to 44,..cheers.) d. I v o A ; kt ; , 4 1 1 , f ',ULAY rose and said that on the present oc- I GOa• 0. far; ti i hj i , 4t ett little apprehension as to the effects of the by Sir eit stil e . y 4 lsl se d eliaered by the Hon. and Learned Member last , to cot e, tt;4l itsodressed the House at such extraordinary length. res that the Oa Isa l 'att aa t night be the talents of that Hon. and Learned !con(' an d t be 0. -", his with the e it t „ R speech was not likely to do away the fined, ~h a a ", h i ' l li s r e 'sion made by that delivered last night by his I too much p ttOo t • Friend the Secretary for Ireland. That speech cheers./ A„.os, eil te l l, le t Zetabl e ; yet, though ell agreed as to its merits, t usiness• A t o ',,; tt ail said that it was a speech so fashioned as to neglec t " e on Ce it s -l t , h t i be predisposition of the majority of that he lit' as h i s ,. 7 l t ti,,„ Of i .,-ad been said that it was addressed to the pre se is I . , It'll: ki l t() '.l.lglisla Members, who before had seemed in isconeetreert A iiiitawvete for the suspension of the laws with respect • has be s f tt; 1 1 g• wn eess i e e A 1, 1 h ole ,. e, as an English Member, took it upon him wed 1•1'ad;0...1 .k, p , ., 4 tite,,,, i 't of the English Members of that House, to tot al the a bo l s a koi2llii, 44 charge It was mere assertion founded upon AI of t" st iYit tess e truth. With respect to his own feelings, he of I‘s ' ,be i edict I th at , 'e a s t t , t ated f. he had never once risen in that House and dares t ati dtbe fo s Kis f eelings like those that agitated him at that erposet h bess 4 / I tt i :tr a i lsa "esould not be otherwise ; for he now saw in Whi ° , e fel;il N'tiii „" 1 upon to do that which he never expected to vill rn ee c 'h a re i ; Iti h s, t )', \ 4 , o l '''' to do—•what he hoped never would be ne iom th e .,„, ?i / 4 ti 4 41, ~..defellit the suspension of the laws of the Con at oaca s°- hole 6 t t 'e a l 'ati, s w hether that suspension referred to Ireland or ss of !b il e s .; s ar i ; kla,4;,alyttaelit feelings would he the same, as his sympathy Aare 1- s as s „( e i tt.2 . tla rl ,ngs of Ireland differed not from that he felt y.Gestl r tj ), P o ril ‘ittlo 4a island, He allowed that it was one of the ce? "„ t allead t te t , 4 sas k u'rences in the life of a public man to see iterary P: d d '"? t 'ik 'i's \ k'cl to advise a suspension of the laws of the . 11 'este r at "t• I . i /on wt d i al ~ N e tel hese laws—the Habeas Corpus Act, and the finials ati fi aisis al i g t 'e t t 'aisi t - `aellich were ranked among the most ancient merits ,io ; r ia w ta t l alc; which were of :er than the House of Corn ault r ag it . ase i itt , ti : p t cttt4 lit te l aws, the origin of which could be scarcely !men° e a 'i, , t h ii i t was lost in the darkness of ages. They iefore Y• ol ea t O r "tt , Poi the infringement of which Kings had been ogle do ce t I t l oeiS 1 • . et tbl i t ot a tts , hi eh o aristocracies overthrown, and in sup excee „ .s ci .1 ,1 , t tli, 1 the grandest, the no"l at of martyrs, had Loutb ; - s t swe e t , i,,, p‘, s e , 4 ~h , - . 7 contained within them the noblest spark ?-0 .1r 1 :, to' i ti, ti "• tt Itt li K ia t atsce of Englishmen. When such was the ists it ; A , $ f l'i t /P h 4 be a'most useless for him to acknowledge at atten d " tetigji t 7.01 .4 ,11 ' ', lt il a deep feeling of superstition that be • _ and 4 4. pl. those . wile. , O N , , o t . Laws. Nothing but dire necessity could ts? g al N t a st ° lay finger upon them—nothing but the Loud 00 lil t made out of such n ece ssity— no thi ng b ut a illen 'Vi a° e the present, when h e saw t h e Constitution , the lthi and th a t h e w as peremp t or il y called uea t an ; Tr 't r ee in th e van f or t h e d e f nce o f t h at Consti ? Has al" ' e n, and then only, should unconstitutional reseed led to ; he called them unconstitutional, but they? 1° n , and remedial measures. S uc h measures e 0. g • :a ot P 1 temperary, and should never be adopt e d so Jere .- li ar 414 precedent. W hen t h ose t h at made use nd, °A eas ures felt that it was necessity th at on t he „to err, and to swerve f rom constitu :now no b ey should place the most circum-ctibsd the ,f to th.• d ura ti on of the strong means th e y m ost 'l herefore, feeling that the necessity e nd ' t i n ged existed, he had made up his m i n d, ti is (a. • „ wa s once made up, he resolved to at nate an of the Habeas Corpus Act, and the cellar ot With but little solicitude for minor details. duty r l°t Et ' t all s o li c i tous a b out , an d h a d no c h o i ce be ,inoke , i t 7ration s proposed with respect to trying ano ii, r the bY e ' tbe r eY mty be tried by Judg es with out J ury , i ti. by Courtsmarti ,I, he had no p re f er . nce would , l could not refrain from giving it as his to de a th' he alteration recommended by the Hon. and taking ' who last spoke, aas the most oajeetee t . s not a o a t all. H e pr o p o s e d that off en d ers s h ou ld to pa t oa iti e composed of the aristocracy and g e ntry proof 36 1e ; and i n d o i ng so , h e stoo d a l one, for no 10 s' l, aro 4, Whet o f the Horse h a d ma d e suc h a pro ,uts e. - e , ' dt" , Ir .) In making such a proposition, it was on- 7 1 proposing that offenders should be tried II jies • ur wi Magistracy, against es hone they were told ty. ? felt th e d eepes t roo t e d artipathy.— re4eot the Irish Members.) He spoke with ° derg I lln 9 he said that such antipathy existed, and quirt'" Most dangerous to intrust the Irish gentry ry. e go t he Hon. and Learned Gentleman desired it I ° ° ' the to them Giving them such power would • ' during 0; Pacification of Ireland, and would for ever 1 ela te al ;he s eo ,I'Plication of beneficial measures to that one 1 9 e ase under deaate may be divided into tw o Ea g 0 'to predial agitation, and into political nbioti e oli ,its Mrmee—that of the peasant, was most a a, soda j e 4s,Palling; it was such that even the Hon. !erg.) e tla slietriber for Dublin had stated it to he his ;ulna s°. , e Peasant, who, after sun-set was caught *ea t of at' 0 .. ,i ought to be considered guilty of mis s] they (), no," from Mr. O'Connell.) If he county' t the Ron. and Learned Member bed ia rt I g e ' °51 (.1 appeel to the majority of that House md beY F t o eretood him, or, at least, if they had ace On !thing as near it as were certain words otecti ° ; to vot hiog : a report of his speech to certain /list like to the words used in the report ii , h_tie l a o tr t $ 1 agitation called for strong coercive tea W more so, as it was completely and ab- It with political agitation. He said this, Viet'. NI, tl ' s bin ion upon isolated anecdotes, but upon rge hp h4 t et co u ld not be , nied by anybody in tire r t. d: No ; 1, Most prejudiced person, if he f a irly Tiate" to , q 'i would allow that between the two bat a t he ' a a strong family likeness.—(Hear.) ire, an" , No, b n h e ':Prodti both in feature and in principle, and al t ' . I Was evidently one and the same— ° w ho 1:t Os Peaeeable inhabitants from being loyal itene d, i.,, , (41 . , . svbr e e eyin g the leas of their country, by , `'ll Hear" • Judgment they had not the slightest , the g , e lf 4,1 1 tt: l k s t . aortun a c rif,f 4 li o 4 kt t null .) The Hon. and Learned alem '9 A io Ji g , ll'Ao4, h * 1 1.,•ktl y not risk his great legal reputation by ' re '„ .het • lit IC to It' i :vs ti Fo ot of the inhabitants of a coun the 0 1 0: P l it t / a t 1 4, 1 5 ' 1 % i :til t! t 'aht to sit as judges over the other al th e 03 , ev l ata t tvh, 4 11, 4 ,1 , i. d u no such thing. It would be mon o'', Of Iril:l l 4 P sY a iib lit i 0 4 4 e ,, s ti lt t; 4 l :' . t the 'members of revolutionary wa s soft, itee,ela oat I ,': 4 .' l e 4 to judgment over that part of the a E n glis 09 as ilit l L le n ee allegiance to the law of the " a l bl e fl i k ki l ttl eti t sf li c &t ilt ' unarmed body, who upon a future m en ,be yee to ot . t o t. ,. tality, 4 ' „ t , ,i tki,,ltto di e ,„"'e up arms—are 'bey to take tre on his c/t""aar 'tel die ta " t ers and legislators at the same time, : of 1 e dicta' Won )Ad to a whole nation ? When such Was organized and instructed how to lays, w: ces s, of fg' despoti' llj t be mittee On proceed, it Wds very easy for the leaders of it to deprecate in that House the outrages perpetrated by Whitefeet. It was very easy for them, whilst they pretended to cnn demn predial agitation to keep up political agitation, and some of them had substantial reasons for so doing, since they found it a very lucrative trade.—(Cheers.) Just see what a Whitefoot leader may say to a political agitator, and what he had a right to say," You are a leader for the redress of wrongs--so am I. You are unarmed—so are we ; but we keep our arms under lock end key, ready to take them up when the time arrives for their use, and you do nearly the same. There is no difference between us, and you have no right to blame us for following your ex ample." Certainly not—there is no difference between them—their aim is the same, and they are actuated by the same passions. Let the matter be considered as a ques tion of morality, and the resemblance will still remain. He would ask those political associations, and the White foot leader might put the same questione—" Who made you Judges aver your fellow-countrymen ; what right have you to determine on taking lip arms, and forming your. selves into what you call a Naiional Gua'd ? You say you have grievances to redress. So have we. We have woods to cut down, cultivated grounds to uncultify, houses and farm-yards to burn down, stewards and landlords to dismiss ; and we do this with the same right that you have to take upon you to cure your wrongs —(Lou. cheering.) He would confidently repeat, that the out rages of the Wbitefeet were inseparably connecte I with political agitation ; and that, consequ, ntly, both the one and the otb-r were fit objects fir the interference of the Legislature. It was not freedom of discussion that political agitators desired ; th , y desired nothing but to establish and perpetuate a system of terror They were a sell-elected tribunal, arrogating to themselves the pas er of every species of tribunal ; and, above all, they declared themselves a crimin tribunal, since they tried offences committed, as they said, against the people.—(Cheers.) The truth was, that these Associations were possessed of all power; they had no want, except the want of re sponsibility. He would as soon trust to them, as soon be under their domination, as of those ancient secret societies of Germany, who sent their spi,s abroad, and despatched their assassins to the right hand and to the left. These Associations compared themselves to the volunteers of 1782, and to the Unions of England. Nothing could be more grossly incorrect than the comparison. He knew of no body to which they could be compared—at least no existing society. The only one that he could recollect was one which, by its applications, had usurped all the powers of Government, and which, through the medium of its dictators, spread tyranny over the unhappy country in which it existed. He meant, as might he easily seen, the Jacobin Club of the first French Re volution. It was to that Club, and to that only, that the present Political Associations in Ireland could he assi milated. Let anybedy read the debates and speeches of b a th Societies, and the closest application will be &mid in the comparison. A Member of this Irish Association de clares that be will stand upon a mine, to the train of which the match has been applied, if the great leader of that Association commands it. So among the Jacobins were found those who would drink poison rather than disobey the wishes of their Chiefs, or separate themselves from their political fortunes.—( Hear.) Since those As sociations followed the career chalked out to them by the Jacobins—since they imitated them in even minute details should the present Government imitate that weak Admi nistration of France, which shut its eyes upon the designs of those Jacobins—allowed them to wax powerful, and at last to dictate to all without control ? He hoped not, and that it would be taught by experience, and de stroy the evil in its bud. He would ask a reformed Par liament whether it was to see such power assumed by any body of men that they were elected—he would ask them as freemen, whether they could sanction the existence of such associations? In former times there were brave men who had resisted the tyranny of the Stuarts, but when they saw in a portion of the aristocracy a fresh tyranny springing up, they naturally enough said, that it was not " to pay the wolf homage that they had struck the lion down."—(Loud cheers.) The same thing would now, he hoped, occur ; and a liberal aristocracy would not be combated, merely that another oligarchy might spring up.—(Hear.) That new oligarchy was making every effort to grasp power ; and was becoming formidable, as much by the lenity exercised towards it by Govern ment, as by its own ambitious audacity. He hoped to see it cut down before it arrived at its full growth. It was said that the adoption of those measures would be taking liberty aw iy from Ireland. What liberty had they to take away ? Something like that possessed by the Kentucky man—the liberty of wallopping his oivn Negro." A pretty liberty they bad to take away ! A liberty that was en forced by arms—a liberty that prevented buying or sell ing—a liberty that flourished in the midst of conspira cies—a liberty whose insignia were plunder and assassina tion, That was the liberty Ireland was going to be bereft of ! Never was that word mare profined—never was that sacred word of liberty more foully abused than it was at present in Ireland. The history of Europe gave hut one example of such profanation ; that was, when over the doors of the execrable Jacobin Club wi re embees ned the words, " Liberty or Death." The Government were now defending real liberty, when they asked for those coercive measures so much cried out against. What were the Habeas Corpus and Trial by Juty intended for ? Why, to be sure, they were intended to be the means, and not the ends, of protecting life and property ; and they became worthless the instant they afforded pro tection to villains and depredators.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Consequently, the suspension of them, in cases like the present, was serving the real causes of liberty. During the course of the debate, allusion had been made to former measures of this kind. But no allusion could apply—no comparison he correct—since no Ministry has yet applied for such measures who stood upon the same grounds with the present Ministers.—(Hear.) The present Minister. had the confidence of the nation, and would not ahule Trey asked for great powers to be granted them ; but, at the same time, they felt that they were responsibl e t o a Reformed Parliament for the use they made of thus. powers. Bes des, they asked for ti ose pow.-rs in order to be aide to apply to Ireland those measur, s of redress which they knew she was entitled to. It hart been argued, last night, against Ministers, by the Bon. Member for Lincoln, that, with them, it was " to-day, concession—to-morrow coercion. A quick alternation of kicks and kindness— coaxing with the hand, and spurring with the heel." Such an accusation did not come well and consistendy from that lion. Member, as he would cord' ss, if he recollected his worIM on the address to the throne. He said then, '• I you ask tor coercive powers, why do you nut, at the same time, hold out measures of redress ?" That w s the vet), thing Government did ; it agreed with the Hon. Member's first thoughts, which, in his humble opinion, were better than his second ones. The Governmeto, en ask,ng for those measures, gave a strong proof of consistency—a strong proot that it acted upo❑ the principles of Reonm. It was a proof that, when it recommended Reform, it had not dune so in order that such scr nes might be seen as were acted at Nottingham and at Bristol. They had ie commended Reform as a remedy, and they were deter mined it should not he abustd. They would app!y it to the two different di , rases that existrd in Inland—to the grievances complained of there, and to ihe system of out rage practised there. To the latter, which was a temporary paroxysm, would be appl'ed temporary remedie., to the former, which were founde upon deeply rooted discontent, would be applied an efficacioUs, speedy, and yet permanent cure. At all evt-nts, the present Governmenr, in asking for coercive powers, were only following the example of the Administrations that went before them. He considered that the present state of Ireland might be aptly compared to the state of the Highlands of Scoland eighty • years ago. At that period there existed in the Highland. two species of ngitation—predial and political agitation. The one was carried on under the influence of Lord Lovat —that resembled the political associations of Ireland at the present day. The other, the principle of which was burnings, robbery, and murder, was conducted by the noted Rob Roy. Though those associations were dis• tinet in ene sense, they were alike in another, and a firm and resolute Government broke up the system of or ganization under which each was conducted. Neither the sentiment of family kindness upon which the one was based, nor the system of terror upon which the other was founded, could resist a vigorous administration of the laws. And what is now the consequence, he would ask, of having then had recourse to means of coercion? Let the High landers be asked : there would not be found one among them who did not bless the severity used towards them at the period mentioned, and the salutary wisdom that dic tated that severity. Ile wished it to be understood, that he had no desire to disouise the appalling features of the present measure. Though it were worse, though it were nothing but a mere experiment (if an experiment, it was at least experimentunt in corpoT though its fea tures were still inure hid,ous, yet was it less appalling than the state of things in Ireland. It asked for courts martial, but could anything that would result from them, by any possibiity, be half so despotic and arbitrary what may be expected from the new National Guards already organized and prepared to extend their sway ? It bad been complained that this measure would prevent the peaceable inhabitant from stirring beyond his threshold after nightfall. So it would ; but be begged leave to ask, was it not much better that the peasant should be so pre vented by the laws, than that he should be so prevented by the ruthless assassin ? Did this law subject the inha bitants of Ireland to half the tyranny the Whitefeet did? It subjected them to many harsh things, and amongst the harshest were domiciliary visits; yet he thought they would be less "complained of at the hands of the servants of justice, than when paid by bands of Whitefeet. H e knew which species of visit he should , prefer ; and he emphatically declared, that let those measures he stigma tised as they might, let them be branded as an Algerine Act, he would far rather live in Algiers, in its most de spotic day, than he would live in the county of Kilkenny at the present time.—(Hear, hear.) There was last year as ample a suspension of the laws in some parts of Ire land as was now demanded ; and yet the powers it gave were not abused. The cause of that suspension was (as we understood the Hen. Gentleman) to prevent the further propagation of cholera. Now that be mentioned that terrible scourge, he would say, if he had to make a choice, he would rather see it rage in England as it had in Russia and in the East Indies, than see what was hourly passing in Ireland ;—sledge-hammers at the door of the peasant--men murdered, the bodies of whom no one dared to touch—and various other outrages. H e repeated, if he had a choice to make between those terrible scou rges , h- would pray with the Hebrew Kng, << Oh, let me fall into the hands of God, rather than into thi, hands of assassins!" He feared he had but imuerfectiv express e d hi s ideas and opinions upon the question before the House; but whatever I.e said, he begged to state it had no connexion with his official capacity, .but was the expression of his sentiments as a Member of that House. It there were questions upon which a Member of that House could compromise his opinions, it was not on a question like the present ; and he considered, that when fie voted for a suspension of the Habeas Corpus and the trial by jury, he was not in any way compromising his opinions. As a proof that it would not be an easy matter to compel him to make a compromise of his opinions, he would stare, that on the evening his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) brought forward his measure of Church reform in Ireland, he came down to that House determined not to support it unless it were satisfactory. In spite of the respect he felt for the quarter from whence th t measure came, he would have declared his sentiments fairly as a Member of Parliament, and opposed it, if his conscience had told him he ought to do so. Upon all occasions be would act with the dignity and tree will that became him as a Member of that House ; he would do to in defiance of all that might be said, and on • the present occasion he would sand ue for the powers which the Government demanded.—(Hear, and cheers.) When he said this, his said it with the firm conviction that he could defend his opinions and his acts, which were the results of these opinions, before those to whom he owed his seat in that House, and to whom, above all others, he considered him. self more immediately responsible. Those constituents understood liberty in the way all rational beings under stood it, and they never would confound it with the maniac ravin g s of those who neither understnod it, nor appre ciated its blessing.. He would conclude by stating, that though it might happen to him as it had happened to others, to become the victim of popular injustice, he would at least carry with him the inward consolation, that he had never been one of its flatterers.—(Cheers.) Mr. ROMILLY, in rising, said that, as a young Mem ber of the House, and when so many were desirous to state their opinions of the great question before them, he felt that he was not entitled to take up much of the time of the House. In viewing this question, it was neces sary to look not only to the evils pointed out by his Ma jesty's ]Ministers, and the evils mentioned in the report— both of which he admitted had strong claims on the serious attention of the House—but they had also to consider whether the measures now proposed by his Ma jesty's Ministers would have the effect of removing those evils. He had gleaned out the difficult cases given in that report, and the evidence on which it was drawn up; but he could not come to the conclusion that the measure was necessary. No one was more ready than he was to give credit to his Majesty's Ministers for the several good mea sures which they had proposed and carried through Par. liament for the good of the country; but with all his good disposition towards them, he could not but hesitate when such a measure as this was proposed—he could not but ask whether there were no other way to improve the state of Ireland ? And when be saw the people of that great country. so determinedly opposed to the law, he could not but inquire whether the law to which they were so generally opposed was deserving of being retained— (Hear)—and before enacting obedience, it was worthy to be obeyed. lie admitted that which was stated by the Hon. Member opposite, for it admitted of no doubt, that the laws ought to be enforced, and that the Government should have the power of enforcing them in the most complete manner against such heinous crimes as murder and rob bery. And if the provisions of this Bill were confined to persons guilty of crimes of that description, it would meet with no opposition from him ; but he objected to it most strontly in so far as it involved all classes of his Majesty's Irish subjects, and in so far as it proscribed the innocent as well as the guilty.—(Hear, hear ) With regard to domi ciliary visits, he would willingly go so far as to allow that those who wer , out beyond a certain hour at night, and were found our, should be considered as guilty of a misde meanor ; but he thought that clause should be confined to those who were found our, and that the houses of the people shculd not be liable to be searched to see whether or not they were at home. He considered those domici liary visits as tyrannical and oppressive, and be bad no doubt that, in practice, they would be found more haras sing to the orderly than to the ilisorderly.—(Hear, hear,) It was intended by this clause of the Bill, that as the in mates of a house would generally be known to the police, they should know if any one of them was absent. But would they know where the places of resort of the ab• senters were if they were among the dismderlies ? Did it nut appear, on the showing of the Right llon. Member opposite, that the persons who created the disturbances tv, re migratory, and that these places of meeting were changed continually? How, then, should these domici liary visits have the effect of thscoveying these plac,s of resort, it they went to all districts of the country, spreading alarm and disorder? He therefore thought he was right in saying that this clause wou'd more harassing to the ordery than to the disorderly; taut when the persons to be protected are to pay so crest a price for the protection, would it nut he well to inquire of those for whose protection the measure is intended what their opinion of it watt?---(H ar, hear.) This BO was for the protection of tiie people of Leland. Would . . it not 1 , ,e right and proper, then, that they should be con sulted? Alight they not consider the remedy worse th the disease? When they were called on to pay such price for their protection, was it not hut fair to inquire i they thought the ',lice n.o hieh ? Was it not cl-ar that the autholizAl breaking open of house., was nearly great a hreacii of law as imihorized murder?--(Hear.) And since they were cabed on to pay that prig- ho- their i•rotection, why not ask, in the first plae,, whether or not they w. re willing to do so ? He would then beg to ask if the Minister hid nia.!e out a cise high entitled them to ask that House to pass this B II? Had the House been put in possessi,n of inform ition which would justify it in passing it ? There was a re t ina of the Committee ppointed to examine into the sate of Ireland before them, and there was a great mass of evidence attached to that report, but did that raid. nee appear to bear our Ministers in their proposition ? So Cri was that from being the case, as it appeared to him, that the whole tenor of the evidence yeenied rather to he in favour of pursuing the ordinary eour,e of the law? He thought ' that the report went further in its recutomenilation of strong measures thin the evidence warranted, and the ineasure further than the report.--(Hear, heir.) Th ere . _ _ was one branch of this Bill of a most damp roue cha racter—he meant the courstnarti +I, which, from their peculiar construction, were most obnoxious. The sus- pension of the Habeas Corpus Act %, as of itself a suffi ciently striking measure, but it was more particularly so, when it was seen what immense power was de puted to courtsmartial by the suspenttion of that Act. The power was not deputed to persons practised in the law, or who were in the habit of judging of causes, or of understanding evidence. Even to such men he would hive some hesitation in deputing such a power, but least of all w.•uld he give it to a class of men who were princi pally distinguished for their unreflecting obedience.— (Hear, hear.) He was much surprised with the doctrine mooted by the Noble Lord opposite on the former evening. That Noble Lord stated, that if they were to violate the Constitution it was essential to go far, lest it might be considered an inroad—and that it was more dangerous to enact a moderate measure than a violent one. He felt that he would not be doing his duty if be did not express his abhorrence and detestation at such a doctrine. He objected, too, to the misconception which such a statement must create in the House and in the country, of the real objects of this Bill. If his Majesty's Ministers were de• termined to overstep the bounds of the Constitution, he thought that they had timer avoid deception, and admit clearly and openly that they did go beyond the bounds of the Constitution. It would he as easy to do so in the slightest as in the greatest violation of it. If they are to violate it at all, let thorn declare that they do so, but let them do as little mischief as possible. That whole argu ment just amounts to this--that Ministers were deter mined to enact such a measure that no Ministers who fol lowed them could ever dare to attempt.—(Hear, hear.) lie really believed that such measures were merely the forerunners of more measures of the same description ; and if this one were allowed to pass, there would be others in continuous succession. He believed that the present Bill would never have been introduced, but for the measure of the Suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act, in 1807. That Act was cited by the present Mi nisters, as a reason for passing the present Bill; and if the present Bill were passed into an Act, it would be cited, in conjunction with the one of 1807, as a reason for passing similar Acts.—(Hear, hear.) As he had men tioned the Act of 1807, he would remind the House that it was passed at a time when Ireland was in a state of erect insubordination, and when we were at war with France ; nay, even Mr. Grattan stated it as his firm be lief that there was a French party in Ireland; yet the measure then required was not so strong nor so arbitrary as that which is called for by the present Ministers, in a time of profound peace. As connected with that sub• jest, he would beg leave to read a passage to them from a Paper which he held in his hand ; and in doing so, he felt that it was necessary to make some explanation to the House, as it was the opinion of his nearest relative— (Hear, hear, and cheers)--on the measure introduced in 1807. On that occasion, he felt as solicitous to show his atihorrence to the measure then introduced as he would have done to the present. After stating the part which NIT.. Grattan took in that measure, he proceeded For myself, the measure appeared to me to he so imoo itic, so unjust, and likely to produce so much mischief, that I de termined, if any person divided the House, to vote against it. Sheridan did divide it, on the question that the Bill do pass, and I found myself in a minority of ten, including the Tellers. against one hundred and eight. The mi nority included the name of Sir Arthur Pigott ('be At. torney.General). I did not speak upon the Bill. That it would pass, whatever might be said against it, I could not doubt; and I, therefore, thought that to state my objection to it, could have no other effect than to increase the mischief which 1 wished to prevent. What triumphant arguments will not this Bill, and that which is pending in the House, F for preventing the people having arms,' furnish thediaaffected with in Ireland. What laws more tyrannical could they have to dread, if the Ft ench yoke were imposed on them. What worse could they endure, than to be exposed to domiciliary visits, to hive their houses broken open in the dead of night, and to find insolent superintendents forcing their way into every bed-chamber, to see that none of the family are from home, and to have those, who, at such a season, shall be absent, without being able to produce witnesses to prove that it was upon some lawful occasion, subjected to transportation as felons to New South Wales ? Can it be expected that men will be so blindly alached to a bondage, thus cruel and degrading, as willingly to shed their blood in the defence of it? To adopt such a measure, at a moment like the present, appears to me to he little short of madness. Unfortunately the measure had been in the contemplation of the lite Ministry; they had left a draft of the Bill in the Secretary of State's Office, and they were now ashamed to oppose what some of them had themselves thought of proposing. The At. torney and Solicitor-General of Ireland had approved the Bill, but Pigott and myself had never heard that such a matter was in agitation till it was brought into the House by the present Ministers." He felt that some apology was necessary for having trespassed so long on the House with these remarks, but he thought that he would not be doing his duty were he to omit them. He could not be sup posed by any one who knew him to make them with any factious motive, or from feelings of hostility to the present Government. So far was that from being the case, that he felt the greatest gratitude to the Govern• ment for several useful measures already passed, and for others which were now before the House. To the Noble Lord (Althorp), he felt more especially grate ful for his invariable care of the rights of the people, and the judicious laws which he had obtained for the benefit of the poorer classes.—(Hear.) There were many others amon4 the Noble Lord's colleagues whom he had the greatest respect for; but when he allowed that lie respected a large portion of them, be could not forget that there were among them men who were in the Administration of 1807—an Administration which passed the arbitrary Act against Ireland to which he had alluded, without even communicating their intentions to their own Attorney or Solicitor-General. He thought that the present Bill should not be carried without some further information upon the subject, at the same time that lie could not consent to support the amendment of the Hon. Member for Lambeth. If that amendment were intended to throw out the Bill, lie considered that the Hon. Member would be acting more manfully if he were at once to declare his real meaning and propose that the Bill be read that day six months. He (Mr. Romilly)would not say that he should support the Hon. Member even in that amendment; but as it was plainer, and would at once show his meaning, he thought it the most eligible man ner for him to act.—(Hear, hear.) There was another subject on which he wished to say a few words. He had heard with feelings of regret the continual attacks made in the course of this debate on the Hon. Member for Dub lin.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He bad not the honour of knowing that Hon. Member till within the last half hour —he was so utterly a stringer to him that he did not suppose that that Hon. Member even knew him by sight, and he did not mean to give any opinion regarding his conduct out of that House; but he felt that in the die cussion of a great question of this nature it should not be made a personal question.—(Hear, hear, hear.) They ought to recollect that it was a question which involve the rights and liberties of one-third of their fell-w•subjects. It should therefore be discussed calmly and deliberately, and without the intervention of anger or paasion. Their real object should be to endeavour to conciliate the people, and not to force tbm, by the intervention of martial law and coercive measures, to succumb to the law. And that law would ever be found the strongest which governed not by force, but by love and respect deep•seated in the hearts of the people.—(Cheers.) An /lON. MEMBER. (nsme unknown) said that he never since he bad hail the honour of a seat in that House, felt so perplexed as he was as to the vote he should give on the present occasion. The question was whether he should on the one hand consent to the further cuttailment of the already too much curtailed liberties of Ireland—whether he should convent to the placing of that country under the opera ion of martial litv, and place the extrarirdinaly powers demao,:ed by the Bill in the hands of a Viceroy, is whose character, he would f , eely admit, be had no confidence ; or, on the other hind, dispute the point w th th e Government as to the necess , ty of thi- measure, and the sufficiency of the present laws to protect the lives and proper'y of the pe.iceable subjects in Leland, by which lie might leave that country exposed to all the horrors of the outraees which msy tike place. This was the dreadfu] ahernativ e in which - he was left. He thought, however, on conshleration of the tnatt.r, that the circumstances of Ireland did not require such a rigorous measure as was how propmed. He was su•e, at trot, thit it a less ri- gorous Ineastoe had been brought forward t.vo ye irs ago, it would have hail a better effect than the pr. sent severe measure at this period. He had heard it aigue.l by gen tlemen in that House, that the misery of Ireland was produced, not by political. but ty predial otitr igt,. That was the argument on which the Hon. Alember for Duhl ' , retried prinvirilly to rely. It was tie ft st time be had heard of predial without political, o: political witb,,ut preriid di.turi3ance.i. But tt:e Hon. Alrtnber for Dublin, while. l e m:ide this assertion, piove•l by hip own wor,ts, that there was en truth in it, for be rani that he had recommended to the volowe.rs tO prevent riots. It that advice had any effect, it implied either that the volunteers had the power to ma down disturbances, or at leas by th•ir countenanct-, that they hid the power of exciting them. On these grounds he considered that the assertion of the Non. Menmer tor Dublin would not bear the test of inquiry. lie would give a very reluctant consent to the measure. Mr. FERGUS O'CONNOIt said it had been said that the agitators were the cause of the disturbances, and of the unpopularity of his Majesty's Government.---(No, no.) He (Mr. O'Connor) had been a great agitator; and he would say that he had never mentioned the names of any of the members of his M ijesty's Government on such occasion but once, and then it was to propose a vote of thanks to them. A Noble Earl had stated in another place, that disturbances existed in the counties of Kil kenny, Cork, and Tipperary. He denied that there were any disturbances in the county of Cork—(Hear, hear)— and be had no doubt but the Hon. Member for Kilkenny could give him a similar testimony as to the state of that coun . y. He would not attempt to follow the Han. Member for Leeds in his hop, step, and jump from England to Ireland, thence to Scotland, and from Scotland to Egypt—he would permit that Hon. Member to pass the time with these amusements; but, alluding to the Bill, he denied one of the arguments on which its neces sity was founded —namely, that juries could not be found who would convict. The case of Sir G. Bingham, alluded to by the Hon Secretary for Ireland was not at all in point. He had many other objections to it. The measure was most tyrannical, arbitrary, and sanguinary, vet this was the measure introduced by men who had *previously so distinguished themselves as Reformers, and the enemies of oppression and tyranny.—(Hear.) Why was not a remedy for this state of crime proposed at an earlier period, when, as they themselves confessed, milder measures would have been found efficient for the sup pression of the disturbances? Why had not this been done then ? The reason was, that during the last two years the English Reform Bill has been pending, and, therefore, while this has been occupying the attention of Ministers, the cry of agitation was " music in their ears ;" but naw that this all engrossing object hail been accomplished— now that the cry of "agitation in Ireland" was no further wanted by the Ministers, it was no longer music in dieir ears.—(Hear, hear, from the Irish Members.) As to the cry of intimidation, he believed that attempts at intimi dation would principally proceed from those who wished to prevent Juries from serving, in order to give a colour of excuse for the Bill. He would not trouble the House with his own views of these atrocious measures; but he would produce the strongest argument against them in the former opinions expressed by those who now so strongly advocated those measures—h e would convict them in their own words. The Hon. Member then read extracts from Hansard, of a spesch made by Dr. Lushington in 1822, in the House of Commons, against the Insurrection Act, wherein the Learned Gentleman expresses his firm be. lief " that there could be no preventio n nor remedy in any Insurrection Act, but that such a Bill would engender rather than destroy outrage."— (Hear, hear.) The Honourable Gentleman (Mr. F. O'Connor) conti nued, that the root of all the disturbances and outrages in Ireland might be traced to the spsech of the Right Hon. Secretary for that country, wherein he had promised the extinction of tithes, a promise which he had since 'ailed in fulfilling ; and this w a the real origin of the increase of crime. Ile trusted and expected that such measures would be forbidd-n by the mighty voice of the people. As soon as the agitation of the Reform Bill had passed over, the Ministers had the audacity to come before a Reformed Parliament and ask them to stifle liberty in. its infancy; but they would find their error ; they would find what the voice of the people can do. No mai knew better what it could do than the Noble Lard who was at the head of the Ministry. The voice of the people had driven Caius Marius' from Rome.—(Shouts of laughter and hear, hear, from the Irish Members.) Since the name of Rome was distasteful to them, he would bring them nearer home: the- voice of the people had brought Charles the First of England to the block—(Hear, hear)—it was the voice of the people which drove Cha.les X. from his throne ; and it was the voice of the people which passed the Refoim Bill-- ( Hear, hear)—and the voice of the people would not, on this pressing occasion, fail to protect the Constitution.— (Hear.) He could not conceive bow the Right Hon. .8 , -cretary could think of such measures as likely to effect their proposed end in Ireland ; he must be little acqu with the Irish people—(Hear, from the Irish blew• bers)—any more than with the English, and the Ministers would not dare to propose such measures for England. That Right /lon. Secretary himself wag the most unp. pular man in Ireland.—(The Hon. Gentleman excited roars of laughter by this intim ition, which was made by him di• rectly to tie Right Hon. Secretary, but apparently, ac cording to the forms of the House, to the Speaker.) The Hon. Members laughed—like the drummer, beat them where he would, be could not please them. However, he would tell them in the House, as he had out of the House, that the Irish people would resist despotism, tyranny, and arbitrary power, foot to foot, and step by step.-..(Cheers front the Irish Members.) The measures now proposed were another lesson to the Irish people, who last session had put faith in the assurance that they might trust to the kind feelings and brotherly kindness of Englishmen. After this, it would be impossible to believe in any words, how ever plausible. How often were the Irish nation to de grade themselves before the English nation—to come cap in hand like beggars—a posture unworthy such a people ? As to the agitation which was laid so much stress on, he could prove, if required, that it emanated wholly from Governmen.t and its servants. He would give them an instance where a Magistrate had stopped a man on the road who owed a trifling arrear of rent; the man tried to make his escape ; but the Ma gistrate, in the struggle, tore off the pockets of the man's frieze coat, in which was the sum of 3/. 18s. 6d. ; and yet this packet, with the money, was sold for 10d. tithe money. There was another instance where 401. worth of hay was sold for ss. tithe, and a horse worth 91. sold for 1/., and immediately shot for the hounds.—(Roars of laughter from the Ministerial benches.) It might he sport to Hon. Gentleman, but it was death to the objects of the inflictions.—(Hear, bear, hear.) This measure was the coping-stone to the proceedings of Ministers with regard to Ireland : yet, if such measures were permitted, they would hereafter deeply repent when they read the accounts of the blood which would be shed ; for every drop of blood would be upon their souls.—(Hear.) After all, what was the object of Ministers? Why, to put down 250 unfortunate volunteers—a point on which the Hon. Mern • tier for Leeds had just before been so eloquent. That Hon. Gentleman had also indulged in observations relative to the subscription made for the Hon. and Learned Mem. ber for Dublin, taunting him with taxing the people; but he (Mr. F. O'Connor) thought that when a man gave up a profession yielding him a large income, for the sole ob ject of promoting his country's good, such a man was en titled to that country's support. Ministers would find it much more difficult than they seemed to anticipate ; it was not possible but that the representatives of a free people would rather die than be guilty of the enormity of signing the death-warrant of their country. The people of England would not stiffer it. They would call to mind the fact, that every Insurrection Act, every suspension of the Habeas Corpus, ever put into operation in England, had been preceded some two years before by similar mea sures in Inland. Mr. CAREW, though he felt that some strong measures were absolutely called for in Ireland, could not admit that the whole country was in a disorganized state, or would require any coercivemeasures. The county of Wexford he would instance as one which did not re quire any such measures. The utmost tranquillity had been preserved there by the strong exertions and in fluence of the gentlemen and magistrates of the county, and of the Catholic clergy.—( He tr.) He must, however, say that the industrious people wanted protection. would refer to the two inquests which he had been oh iged to hold ; at one a hou-e had been burned down, and he saw three bodies on the floor; the other was held on a man who had b.en murdered, whose only crime was, that he had said that he knew the persons who had committed another crime.—( Hear, hear.) Another case he would mention was that of the police who had killed two White feet, on which occasion the farmers had given a verdict that the police had shot these men in the execution of their duty, and peace was restored. The illegal notices which had been mentioned were certainly frequently given, and though he always encouraged the farmers whom they were given to remain on their land, and promised them protection, it was not without fear that they migle he murdered. He had found it necessary in the executis of his duty to promise witnesses that they should he placed under the protection of the law till the Assizes, and should then be tient out of the country. It was a cruel state of things when witnesses, who came forward to prove that their friendo had been murdered, should in it that pronounce a sentence of banishment on them selves —( Hear, hear.) Within a week, the house of H widow, whose husband had been murdered, had been burnt down, and whether that had been done by those whit murdered the man, or by the widow herself, to get removed, it equally proved the intimidation under which the people lived. As for domiciliary visits, he must say that hardly any of the farmers whom he had sleeken on the subject had sugersted that they ought to take place. He would ewe his suppert in the motion. Mr. CLAY could not reconcile it to himself to give a silent vote ou this subj•c-r—rhe rather as he wan diaFnia,:n to think th it all its hearings had not been successfully de v loped in the speech, however eloquent and able, of the Right Hun. Secretary for Ireland. That speech was cal citia•ed to lead the House into one great error—that of substituting local, personal, and patty feelings for the ge neral good, as the hems of legislation—a principle of legis lation that was in the last degree dangerous. He would say, that he had n r feeling of hostility agains Ministers ; he was disposed to give them his warmest support ; he owed them gratitude for what the) had done as to Reform, and he was confident that their intentions were most pure. For them to leave office would be a great national calamity, for he saw no other set of men who possessed the power to carry those measures of further Reform which the country demanded and must attain, and at the Berne time preserve order. The disposition to place confidence in them must not, however, lead him too far —not so far as to oppose those principles which were the basis of his political creed. Many independent men in that House, who wished well to the Ministers, would not enter with them into the present path, and many more would enter it with the de. pest regret.—(Hear, hear.) He demander to know why it was that Ireland was so continually a subject of complaint ? Why did the distress of Ireland meet us at every torn ? And why but because Ireland had been misgoverned in every age? What rendered out p ot o i ly r ic di ‘ak and 8 1 t •e ress a uncertain home_i abroad, reld and .Th w The eight tiglahatt millions s te o rf her people only added to our weakness. In a census o our population they ought to be subtracted from the six teen millions who inhabited Britain, for we altauld be stronger without them. Why did taxes press so heavily on Britain?—Because Ireland did not bear her fair pro portion. What was the cause of that growing and exten sive pauperism which told that this once happy laud we going to decay ?—What was it but the overflowing of bet population into England, not only lowering the wages o. Englishmen, but debasing the standard of social enjoy ment and existence, by perpetually exhibiting a picture o by how small a quantity of comfort animal life could b, preserved—thus removing the only barrier against the general flood of misery which already overwhelmed Ire land itself ? What was the remedy for this state of things ? It teas—.do justice to Ireland.-.(Hear.) Let the Uaree be made a real Union, and let Ireland no longer he treated as a province. It might be said that the measures of Ministers promised justice to Ireland; but when they were exa mined, the few measures of improvement slowly brought forward were more than counterbalanced by another mea sure of unparalleled severity. It was taliires the whole nation nut of the pale of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear.) It was the employment of force, which nothing but the most urgent necessity could justify Lct them be quite sur e that their cause was just before they had recourse to such a measure —before they resolved to employ force against a whole people ; and the employment of force by the Government against the people was a prima fade proof that the Government was wrong.—(No, no; Order.) Measures of coercion were the lest whirh could be called for on this occasion. One part of the measure he did not approve of; another part—that which went to strengthen the law and protect life and ereperty, to put a stop to outrage and restore order—to that extent t agreed ge :Ministersee e p d p rwonivt with ie,hhtde:dtohhf, ordinary,e madew el . i e e vae m rn e ,dot a ur s wi tubrameasn, approve a a pc _ar d se eop.tafnoroett prepared rTe a e t s:n o x i finta t i h e r awa n rt t tiyi, t e xrcati t obe, , h tnup o ette u e, cadgil he as There was no reason why justice should not be adminis y c ter o ire m ed m di i bd s y sion should not be issued to suppress the out rages.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Secretary had praised the measure because it was a great departure from the Constitution; but if that were a recommendation, and it were found difficult to get witnesses, why not also subject them at once to torture to make them ate tend?—(Hear, hear, hear.) He objected, also, to the mixing and confounding of things quite distinct. He was ready to concede to his Majesty's Ministers a power to restrain nightly outrage, but he was not ready to concede to them a power to restrain the expression of public opinion ; he was not ready to put Ireland out of the pale of the Constitution ; for the Irish had equal rights with the English. The House was called upon to legise Lite on some petty, paltry, personal considerations. Toe Hon. and Learned Member for Duelin was treated, he must say, unfairly, injudiciously, and injuriously. By rendering him an object of attack, the people were only the more attached to him. He was treated injudiciously, because one of the great objects for which he had agitated bad not been granted by that British Parliament to which he was held up now as an object of cen•ure and ridicule, He had agitated for Catholic Emancipation —that was granted. He had agitated to obtain the repeal of the Church Cess, of the Grand Jury Laws—and was not the whole House anxious to reform both those grievances When he had accomplished these things, the Hon. and Learned Member should not he taunted and held up to ridicule because he did not deliver himself in that House in "good set phrase, and use the terms of a waiting gentlewoman."—(A laugh.) But suppose that the Ron. and Learned Gentleman was indiacreet—and he did not defend the Hon. and Learned Member—they should not act on such paltry ground of legislation. He would go further and say that, with all respect for the talents au.l exertions of the lion. and Learned Member—admitting, too, that the Hon. and Learned Member had done great things—he would say, that unfortunately a great deal too much importance was attached to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. That man must have read history to very little purpose, and most unphilosophically, who was net convinced that no individual could have much ;it" fluence over those events on which depend a nation's trate. quillity.—(Hear, hear ; No, no.) All history, he said, testified that great men were but incidents, they were created by events, and did not create them. The Hun, and Learned Gentleman was more the effect than the cause of agitation. He was the child before he was the cham pion of agitation. He looked at the promised reforms, because they were made the reasons for justifying coercion. On the measures of redress was founded a measure of un paralleled severity. lie had not heard in those measures of redress any other hope but of a distant commutation of tithes, which were still to be levied in some shape or other, and appropriated to the exclusive use of the Irish Church Establishment. A reduction was to be wade in the number of Irish Bishops, and a portion of that pro perty was to be taken away, and how that was to be re conciled to the principle that they were not to violate church property be did not know ; but if it were violated in one instance, why should it not be done in more in stances than one, if that was necessary to the tranquillity of Ireland ? Ile could not get rid of the impression that this measure of severity was intended to enforce the collec tion of tithes, which had been disclaim-d by the Noble Lord, though a subsequent explanation of the Right Hen. Gentleman had done away with that disclaimer.--. (Question.) In conclusion be would say, that he would not oppose the first reading of the Bill.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) He was not aware that he had said anything which should excite the amusement of the House ; He bad stated that he thought greater power was necessary to repress outrage, and he did not intend, therefore, to op pose the introduction of the Bill ; but he should, at is prop-r time, give his most decided opposition to those parts of the measure which went beyond the repreasion of outrages and the Whitefeet.—(l leer, hear.) Major BEAUCLERK said, that the great cause of al the evils which England suffered from Ireland was the misgovernment and mismanagement to which the latter had been exposed, and yet the Ministers were about to make the wrong and the cause of all the evils much greater.—(Hear, hear.) He would tell Ministers that they would not attain their object, but would bring ruin on the country and on their own head-. If the people allowed the 13111 to pass, it would keep up the t ixes, and t ,, ey, therefore, could not allow it to pass with impunity. It was fraught with danger to both parts of the empire, and he would, while it was yet time, raise his voice against it. Was this the fruit of Reform? Was this the gra. titude of England to Ireland for her exertions to Witain Reform? It was his duty not to give the Government the power they asked, and he should oppose even the first stage of the Bill. The question would probably be de- cided for Ministers by a well-dressed majority of the House.—(Loud cries of " No, no.") But who were their supporters in this scheme of oppression? T , e very men who were distinguished for their hatred of liberty. (Cheers, and loud cries of " Oh, oh !") They looked with suspicion and dislike at a measure which d-stroved the foundation of the English Constitution—the erin ciples of liberty and justice; and not, as the Ministry seemed to imagine, the bayonet and the sword.—(Laueb ter.) The Bill was one which every honest man must view with feelings of hatred If his Majesty's Ministers succeeded in carrying such a Bill, he for one would di Clare, that out of the House he would not obey it — a (Cheers and laughter ) Mr. T. LENNARD—If he had a single deeiht as to the propriety of supporting Government on (his occasion, it would hive been removed by the coraclusive speech of the Right Hon. Secretar, for Ir land, I t w as a speec h coarincing that the address of the elovent gentleman who spoke that night failed in shaking one sin le fact or Argument contained in it. Never had be heard a stronger, a more irresistible case made out: the necessity of arming Minister, with extraordinary povrere.—(Cbeers.) The (notion made by the Hon. Member for Lambeth, requrring a fortnight delay, was one he could not consent to; be e.use a much longer time would be requisite, in order to see the effect of the remedial measure.. Before they ..a , ,e• ioned delay, let the price of that delay be taken into ac count—let them put themselves into tee situation of per sons living in an agitated district, and estimate the waste of property and liee in the interval. Unieet he was sa , had that no outrages would be torntnitted in the mean time, be was resolved net to be deterred from giving his cordial support to Government. It wes with reluctance he attempted to vindicate the present Bil—harsh and un constitutional it certainly was, but in his opinion much inure harsh and unconstitutional was it to refuse fellow subjects the protection of life and property. He, how ever, wished it to be understood, that the responsibility if the Bill rested on Ministers, bath for its enactment and execution. Though supporting the present measure, he begged levee to observe that he was a sincere friend tcl Ireland. Lord EBRINOTON begged leave to ask the Hon. Gentleman who addressed the House last but one, to ex plain what he meant by "a well dressed majority."--. (Cries of " Explain " were raised, and) Major BEAUCLERK used the term in no offensive Arrive, but merely meant to refer to the order and ar rangement of Hon. Members on the various benches rising; behind esch other. Lord ERRINGTON would be the last man to take ad vantage of an expression uttered in the heat of debate; iut he would t e ll H on. Members that they could not de prive of the confidence of the country those men who, by he whole tenor of their bees, had proved themselves the Tiends of popular rights—(Cheering)—who, during the lung course of their political career, had uniformly endea voured to defend and extend the liberties of their fellow subjects.—(Hear, hear.) If all who supported Govern ' ['lent expressed the reluctance with which they adviiitited uch a Bill, h e wou ld d ec l are that na man entertained !hat feeling more keenly and sincerely than ho (L ird Ebrington) did, but at the same time he avowed that ther did any person hold a firmer or more entire convic !ion of the absolute necessity of a measure ot t h at kind— no t f or t h e purposes o f coerm . on—t,ut t.ir th e re 'loyal of a grievous tyranny--of tha- sy,itetn of lawless. nest' which prevailed in a great part of the country, and Was utterly incompioble with the ex istence of property, and life, and civil soctety..-(Haars bur.) His support, IL I " r 00 1:) th ° ale ; efrw t "1e la' ad Isi'v ° hr e he ° lay 1 n k ' L k st! ti liit rr :t d e hem eo tq t he r, •roparli t ,,`0 1 , 1) 1, u gh, an t," n o v J A I aor, If' 1 1 1 4 ce t tied 3 1 ° 'oes c l q, 1 1 01 . 4 ' ti lo n ' and eY ? 4 4 if l t tfEer,ted to 11.1V e rof 0 l'ht a , e i s nOt ot 4 ,o kt f l otr a n Y t emp e%cept*, u, 14 1 a ., pr,c, on Cho, 0 1 1 ' li:t1 i th e :ahur„ odtb f k l : 1 0 144> r to ot ? th' rt t to reP r ot 4 iroP°oll4,l4o , r to tYr' n° : ( o ol° • 3 and ° Sat r itie / ,0 I N tl l 4 t," e d e e a utb ° 11 r i 1 "oo wa or of the„,./,,tok!tt'Llt;vl)'ion icy o°,r beta 01. with 1 ioke o,4'loollth t 411.01 to byer tlt eratloa herJ hey m and t Uld CO V O/ 7 , tY or by r deatiP or tbl,oritht e,u, ipg the r i pb' te the al Idir'ca, Pr.,,,!tdre tel DC a ,I,e " win out Oa IL, b . , Yj t - l n , of all :„ o f ao ;,rleikrit.tOot,iles co s i og le r ' 4 4 %, ; a nd ./"41‘ 1. 41 000 7 O a f / t hit go ~ tta t) Pro u r . 04 , 0 e, 0 Otte, t !ri t ": tD 7t4trygf,' riderg e It'oitl'‘'hrl44 tb Livolrfb :elf/ tilittlk4ictlvhae44llloeser to dr4l:tt, t kst the Ti t I°° tb e to the ring o f sip,i the e btatePacific, n , vs'a r o 0 0 0 T E . u PPli„ i at 6° 1 ag°i'AtN.4lltt'te4'e u tratio°4(ed int o ,aa ja 0 1 ' 44 : 1 t . 4 M 4 into ) Yv ai g eO lf t i, llt ,t 1 „ I rt 'et/ar e a .teo d t .ot 11 th e j7,44A,.,.ttia, pea hey Ayeyelf t o t 1,1 au nitY• tbe t'/Itkl4lZlt (), 31 g e t ea I° ,tly tti note m Yo r °o h e 1 ; v / t i t„ 1 / 4 1 r) It k re") , nd ' : li o n ; Jr ( 4 14 ( ,11,40k,.301tre abiag a t f it! 'Ol. ' l / 4 ' Oi ` 4, 11 I ,tp„ titters ,arhoof t ‘t, t hli poi e99e#ll.l4l4dNC'tll cora' o d tha 'to -1 , 1 tri o 30 1 st4toc t , 41 1!1,i 4 wi 111 " t ge l itkilt4d4lol4 °P' I ,t he l t 4l :;0 ; • th e ,' 4 e c riater. C/th PCNtr 140t,t4( 00 d t he ,i tt 4 t b et tat',!'hrit4it 1't!,4,4111Ctl whom tbe.olijakP4tFo Ntltllt•Nitit jolPy,trut t o !N . % . 41k who bleiebol4,,ft4ll,Yttl4l P ea le gu ard' toi t , had I Gk \(4l,