The Sun. — London, England, 1854-07-18 00:00:00

Zee of a military chief placed at the head of the . ). - ;\11 't..!-Hertillery or engineers, and who is entrusted to provide arms V4ile\ fit the defence of the country, has added to its duties t great civil functions, which are connected at once with ; military and political duties in the State. For instance, wi take the subject of barrack accommodation for the troo i p s. te! at home and abroad, which is one of high importance, are, o volving various considerations, and for which estimates presented to the house involving very considerabbleieliexptbeant diture to the country. But the manner in w •• ques tion has been generally conducted is one which makes it very difficult to come to a permanently sound conclu sion. The Secretary for the Home Department, finding that there are riots and tumults in a particular district, and being told by persons resident in it that it would be a great security for them to have a garrisonatapaicular to have spot for their protection, takes measu res barracks constructed in that locality. But it is obvious that the question of barrack a ccommodation in the United King dom involves both civil cons i derations of expense and mili tary considerations as to the stationing of troops at points where they are wanted, and from which a concentration might take place in a very short time. So like w i se w ith regard to the colonies. At one time a long and volumin ous correspondence occurred, which has been referred to by Earl Grey on a recent occasion, with r egar d t o th e b es t mode of planting troo p s in the island of Jamaica. Opinions were given on the subject by persons of authority, who were sent out by the Ordnance department to the colony. Repor t s c ame back, which were referr e d t o th e T reasur y. The Treasury then consulted the Secretary-at-War and the Master-General, and a year elapsed without a solution of th a t question. Now it is obvious that a Secretary of State for the War Department, having the authority which a Secretary of State has, being also connected with the Government, being by his office of Secretary of State a member of the Cabinet, would bring that question to a very speedy solution ; he would have an examination made with respect to the salubrity of the position pro posed for barracks, and with respect to its fitness for troops placed to defend the island ; and in this manner there might possibly be a considerable saving both of time and expense. Take, again, the question of fortifications, which is one of the highest importance both at home and abroad. I will not now touch on that part of the subject which relates to our home defences, but take the fortifica tions of any particular colony, such as Trinidad or Mewl tins. The select committee of the house appointed some years ago to inquire into our military expenditure, made a report in which they desired that the Government would fully consider the question, and it is obvious that it is one requiring considerable attention, and mixed up with the whole policy of the State in respect to future arrangements of the connection with our dependencies. I remember, with reference to Gibraltar, when I had the honour of being Secretary of State for the Colonies, a committee was appointed consisting of several high military authorities, and a considerable time passed before they came to any de cision. A Master-General of the Ordnance, not politically connected with the Government of course, rather hesitates to give an opinion, by which very considerable expense may be incurred, witho u t b e i ng fully aware of the views of the Cabinet on this subject. A. Minister of War would be enabled to collect all the materials necessary for form ing a judgment on this subject, and before the estimates for the year were prepared he would have gone over them, and would have informed the Government what measures were in his opinion necessary, and whether it was advisable that any further expenses should be incurred, or whether any retrenchment could be effected. So with regard to our West India Islands; several years ago it was found that those islands, having been occupied in time of war by large bodies of troops, had a great number of forts mount e d w i t h can n o n, which required small parties of artillery to be posted in different places in order to keep them in repair, and ques tions arose as to the arrangements which sh o uld be made for these objects. Upon such points the opinion of a Secretary of State for War would probably be of great use in drawing up the estimates. With regard to the department of Secre tary-at-War, there are less changes that can be made. The business of the Secretary at War is chiefly one of details ; if you have 100,000 men, you have a certain estimate and various arrangements consequent on that number, and so if you have 20,000, or 30,000, or 40,000. A good deal of consideration is required in order to fix the point at which your establishment should be kept ; but that having been done, there are few questions of difficulty which arise. Except in regard to the commissariat, I cannot now enter into any outline of the official arrangements which will be made, The question has been found one of much difficulty by the Governments of Earl Grey and Lord Melbourne, and I think it better that the head of the department, an active man of business like the noble duke who is now at the head of it, should take into his consideration what changes are expedient in the whole department, and should propose them when they are required. With regard to the commissariat, I see no objection which can be made to the change we propose, Ido not see that there is any other change that can be made in the official arrangements, and I will only say that there is no person who is in the Government charged with any department who will make any personal objection to such arrangements as may be thought necessary for the public service, and that what ever arrangement shall be thought desirable, it will be cheerfully acceded to. In reference to the militia, I think the arrangement prevailing at present is that the embodied militia comes under the Secretary-at-War and the Com mander-in-Chief, but the disembodied militia is under the Secretary for the Home Department. As at pre sent advised, we do not think it expedient that any change should be made in that respect ; if it should be thought necessary, it can be made at any time ; but the present arrangement being one that concerns the colonels of militia, and other officers who are in the habit of trans acting business with the Home Department, there appears no advantage in making any other change. The great ad vantage which I think will be gained by oar measure is the separating the civil from the military department, a great part of the business now done at the Board of Ord nance under a military chief being entirely of a civilnature. It appears to me, whatever may be the mode in which you arrive at the result, that the Commander-in-Chief and the Master-General of the Ordnance, if those two offices are to continue separate, or the he a d of both combined if they are to be united, should have the whole control of the dis cipline and patronage of the army, including the artillery and engineers, and that, on the other hand, the civil de partments should have the whole of the arrangements that are necessary for the lodging of the army, thefortifieations at home and abroad, the provisioning and pay of the troops. When these changes shall have been effected, the House of Commons will then have before it, on the respon sibility of the Secretary of State for the War Department, the whole military expenditure of the country. Therefore, if there should be any complaint with respect to furnishing provisions for the troops, for instance, instead of saying that the arrangements of the Treasury have been defective the house will call on the Secretary for the War Depart ment to answer, and will consider him responsible, for arrangements which must at all times entail a very heavy burden on the country. These, sir, are the general arrangements which are in contemplation. I have already said that I think there are others which must be carried into effect from time to time. It would be impossible to carry them into effect at present, now that we are at the beginning of a war, when the Secretary of State is fully employed by those urgent and impor tant duties which belong to the Minister who is to super intend the military expenditure of the country, and give directions for the employment of our forces. What I have to ask of the committee, therefore, having explained the general views of the Government, is to allow time for car rying into effect the new arrangements on the responsibi lity of Mini s t ers . Th ere are at presort two offices at the Board of O r d nance vacant which are usually holdby mem bers of the H ouse o f C ommons, that ofSurveyor-General, and that of Secretary to the Master-General of the Ord nance. It is not intended without full consideration to up those offices, at least in the way in which they have hitherto filled. At present the only opinion I can - ` j Aive is, that whil s t it may no t b e necessary to keep up the 7; ..office of. Secretary to the Master-General with so large a e'edre.n ' 'Salary as hitherto, it will be necessary to appoint a Sur - teele. , ` veyor-General to the Ordnance department. But if that efeee:. — department is kept up as before, it may be advisable rather t - - • to appoint a person who has a competent knowiedge of the important duties that belong to that department than a member of this house not hitherto conversant with those duties. But lam asking now that the whole subject may be reserved for the consideration of the Government, and shall put the vote into ;your hands with that understand ing. I should mention that a considerable part of the ex pense has been already voted, about 2,0001, a-year or more of salaries having been included in the estimates for the Colonial department, and other sums, of which I do not know the exact amount, having coming under the heads of the Treasury and Home departments. With respect to the °tees to be created, I should state first that the military Under Secretary of State was appointed before the separation of the offices by the Duke of Newcastle, ; when he was Secretary of State for War and the Colo nies. With respect to the other under secretary, the • Purpose of a pp o i n ting him is, that he may conduct cor respondence, and transact other business coming imme diately under the control of the Secretary of State. But the person who is to fill that office will have no lasting tenure of it until the final arrangements are made, so that •• the present one will be merely provisional. With respect to the three classes of clerks, it is intended that they shall • be all of them taken from offices in which they are at pre sent . serving. There will be a certain number appointed as probationary clerks, who will receive salaries of . 1001. and 1501. a-y ear ; the senior and junior clerks will rise as in other offices, but they will not, for the p resent, have the ho use , I beg to m o t v h e e the explanations e h le hhaavned sgiven t to Chairman. Sir J. PARINGTON had listened to th e noble lord with the greatest as t on i s h ment and disappointment. The noble lord had told them that he had ... Government ; but it appeared to himtatmothdattiltheatvivrewasseoxfactthlye understand from ption that the • t what he had not done, and he could the noble lord's speech, with the singlenlyexce commissariat was to be transferred from the Tre the new departme n t, th at the Governor Government had f - to views on that subje c t, an d h ad called into existernedss ry no department of the St a t e , crea ti ng a new officer of tcheeahing" est class, without having at all determined what his d° were to be, or what were to b e th e new arrangem„t,:oeln this subject, which, under the force of existing circurn - stances, was become one of the most important that could occupy the consideration of the house. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord, in the outset of his observations, h a d done him the honour to refer to some remarks that f e ll from him in a former discussion during the pre sent session upon this subject. He entirely agreed with the noble lord to this extent, that now that we were unhappily engaged in war it had become impossible for any public servant holding the office of Secretary for the Colonies adequately to discharge its duties and r at the same time those which devolved upon the War Mi -44 e e e . sister. He had pointed out this as strongly the same view had as he could on •• The occasion to which he referred, boen enforced in a most able speech in another place by the noble earl who was his (Sir J. Pakington's) predecessortnot tom the Colonial-office. But the Government n g a li d t w at i o have rested content with stating that they had arrived those the conclu s i on th a t it was necessary to separate ,a , offices. They had a right to expect that, before the G overnment asked th em t o vote an estimate for the establish - went of a new department of State, they would have made up their minds what the duties of the new secretary were to be, and in what manner the present anomalies and inconveniences incident to the administration of the army were to be remedied. (Hear, hear.) He hardly thought that the country was aware that under the present manage ment of our military forces there were six different heads of authority. The regular army, infantry, cavalry, an d artillery, was mai nly managed by the C m der-in-Chief and the Master-G enera l of the Ordnan j c o e• the enrolled pen sioners, he beli eve d, were under the management' of the Secretary -at-War ; the dockyard battalions, be rather thought, were tinder the management of the Admiralty; the commissariat was under the T reasury; and as for the yeo manry and the m iliti a , it wou ld b e very difficult to say under what authority they were—they were under a great variety of authorities, If th e stib!ect was to be approached by Cat Government, they were bound to have made up their mind in what manner they would amalgamate and con solidate the six different branches of our military force, and the authorities by whom they were directed. Let him remind the house that this was by no means a new sub ject, but one to which the attention of Government and Par liament had at different times been directed. The noble lord had reminded them of the fact that so long ago as when the Duke of Richmond held office in the Administration of Earl Grey, a commission was appointed on this subject, of which the noble lord was a member, and he adverted also to the commission subsequently appointed in 1836, of which Earl Grey, then Lord Howick, and. Secretary at War, officiated at chairman, and of which the noble lord as well as the noble viscount at the head of the Home de partment were members. That commission made a very elaborate report in the year 1837, recommending that the anomalous state of things to which he had adverted should be abolished, that the Commander-in-Chief and Master- General of the Ordnance should continue to discharge the functions pertaining to the strictly military branch of their offices, but that the civil duties of the various de partments should be consolidated, that the Secretary at War should have a seat in the Cabinet as the responsible minister in that house, though not a Secretary of State ; and also, if he recollected rightly, that the commissariat should be transferred to the new department, and taken away from the Treasury. The noble lord hail told theni that, in consequence of certain objections of the Duke of Wellington, those recommendations were not carried out, but he had not told them that he had been a member of the commission, and, having concurred in its report, that he now dissented from the recommendations then made. Neither had the noble lord adverted to the fact, not unim portant as bearing on this question, that in the year 1850 a committee of that house was appointed to inquire into the details of the army and ordnance expenditure, which was selected with great care, and contained members most competent to the discharge of their duties, the noble lord the member for Totnes (Lord Seymour) being chairman. They restated in their report the recommendations of the committee of 1837, and declared their conviction that these should be acted upon. Here was a third recent and com petent authority which recorded its opinion that the exist ing anomalies should be removed, and the inconveniences of the present system corrected ; but to the report of that committee the noble lord had made no reference whatever. He certainly had felt very great surprise that with a war hanging over us, with almost the certainty that as soon as Parliament met we should find ourselves embarked in a serious and too probably protracted contest, the Govern ment had not directed their attention to this subject dur ing the leisure of the recess, in order that they might be prepared when Parliament met, to present a complete scheme for the consolidation of the different departments connected with the management of the army. After Par liament met, of course the unsatisfactory state of our military administration became the subject of comment in both houses. It was brought under the notice of the other house by a noble earl, and was brought forward in that house by the hon. member for Montrose. In that debate, the right hon. gentleman the Secretary-at-War made a speech contending that, in spite of the anamolies complained of, the existing state of things ought to con tinue ; anti after quoting some opinions of Lord Grey, he said :—" If Lord Grey thinks there is a time when no alterations should be made ci fortiori, the present is a mo ment when, in my opinion at least, it would be dangerous to make such a change as that proposed by my hon. friend" —namely, that there should be a change in the management of the army, and a consolidation of the different branches of the service. "At any time, continued the right hon. gentleman, "I think you ought to proceed step by step, but at this moment I do not believe you could undertake a more rash experiment than when you are about to enter on a seri ous contest, and when you will have the greatest pressure on your energies and resources from being engaged in a hot war." The noble lord (Lord J. Russell) also remarked, " My right hon. friend has explained the great difficulty and incon renience that would arise from attempting to carryinto effect a new organisation of the departments at a moment when they are all required to make the utmost exertions in the preparation of the expedition now on its way to the to the East. Instead of being a great public convenience, I believe it would be a great public inconvenience, if the carrying out of these arrangements were to be transferred to any other department." In that debate it was an nounced that all the Government intended to do was, to add a new secretary in the colonial department, consider ing the pressure of business. He confessed he yielded to the force of the argument then used, and he thought the prudent course of the Government was to go on with the existing state of things, adding, however, ano th er U n d er - Secretary of State f or the Colonial Department, until the recess should enable them to address themselves to the whole subject, with the view of laying some definite plan before Parliament at the commencement of the next ses sion. It was, however, with some surprise that he learned, during the Whitsuntide holidays, that the Government had determined to establish a new department, with a Secretary of State at the head of it. He thought that the original opinions of the noble lord (Lord John Russell) on this subject were wiser than those which he subsequently adopted. It would have been far better, in his judgment, if the noble lord had deferred, until this session was over; any fresh arrangement. He thought that would have been a better and a wiser plan than to come as he now did, with an imperfect proposal, establishing a new department, and a new Secretary of State, without having determined, ex cept in one single respect, what the duties of that new de partment and that new Secretary of State were to be. (Hear.) He did not understand the noble lord to express any decided opinion that the management of barracks and fortifications was to be transferred to the new department, or that the Government had made up its mind in any re spect as to what the duties of this new department were to be, except that the commissariat was to be trans ferred to the new Secretary of State. But that which must have struck the country most was, that which ap peared to him to be, at this moment, the anomalous posi tion of the Secretary at War. (Cheers from the Opposi tion.) The country must have been surprised to find that, when the Government had so far matured their opinions as to make up their minds to the creation of a new depart. ment and a new Secretary of State, the Secretary at War was to continue in existence at the head of an important public department, and still to be a Cabinet Minister. (Hear, hear.) What authority did the noble lord find for that in any one of the reports to which he had referred ? He (Sir John Pakington) knew of no recommendation which had contemplated the simultaneous existence of a War Minister in the Cabinet, and a Secretary of War in the Cabinet. (Hear, hear.) That anomalous state of affairs, he thought, was the strongest proof that could have been afforded that the Government, from some motive or other--he could not venture to say what the influence might be—had changed their opinions, and their intended mode of action. For some reason or other it seemed to have been thought desirable to add a new Minister to the Cabinet during the Whitsuntide recess; and now, to his (Sir John Pakington's) extreme surprise, they were about to vote this sum of money for the establishment of a new department and a new Secretary of State, whose duties were not defined, and whose duties it was clear the Go vernment themselves had not determined upon. (Hear, hear.) He thought the house had great reason to feel dis satisfied with this most unsatisfactory state of things. Ho thought they had a right to some explanation as to the difference of the duties of the Secretary of State for War and of the Secretary at War, both of them being Cabinet Ministers ; and he should sit down in the hope that they should have some explanation of what tho views of the Government were, more satisfactory and more full than that which had been afforded by the noble lord the Presi dent of the Council. (Cheers from the Opposition.) Mr. S. HERBERT—I am afraid that that state of re gret, surprise, and astonishment in which the right hon. baronet usually finds himself—(a laugh)—at a state of things to which he cannot give his consent, will not be, and can not be, relieved by anything that I have to address to the committee ; but I hope I shall be able to make clear to the great body of the committee what are the intentions of the Government, and to defend the course taken by the Go vernment, which has been so impugned by the right hon. baronet. He is surprised that we, who so short a time ago expressed opinions diametrically opposed to making any change in the military departments, should now suddenly propose to make a complete reconstruction of those depart ments. The right hon. baronet quoted from memory one or two extracts from a speech that I had made on this subject, in order to show that I at least had expressed an opinion in favour of a perfect system. I think the com mittee will do me the justice to believe that at the time when we before discussed this question there was no want of frankness on my part in stating my opinions on the sub ject. I have held my present office in the Government on two separate occasions, and having turned my attention' a good deal to this subject, I thought it would not be imper tinent in me, though not speaking with the authority of the Government, to give a general outline of what ap peared to me were the principal defects of the existing system, and of the measures which seemed necessary to re medy those defects. Now, it is quite true th a t I h a d spoken in reprobation of the arguments used for a con solidation of the military departments, grounded on the misunderstandings which had arisen between the dif ferent military and civil officers at the commencement of the present century. Now, a great deal of public feeling has been excited upon this subject which is en tirely uncalled for. 'We have great difficulties to con tend with in dealing with these departments ; and I say, let us apply ourselves to that task, but let us first get rid of all those pre-Adamtite anecdotes—(a laugh)—in which some are wont to indulge, but which are wholly foreign to the purpose in hand. What I meant to intimate on that occasion was this. I said, so far from their being now a difficulty arising from any disagreement between the mili tary and civil departments, that had passed away ; but that I was alive to the inconveniences of the present sys tem. The Commander-in-Chief has not that knowledge of what in being done by the Ordnance department which I think is exceedingly desirable For example, a fortifi cation may be made in any part of the island, and that fortification when made, may be disapproved of by the Commander-in-Chief. I think that is a great evil. You have there the separate action of two departments of great im portance, uncontrolled by any superintending authority. ~, " u may, however, consolidate departments, and they may become inefficient from over-consolidation. I am not, want is, a n t i e o t n ß r o a ra th u e e r h th th an e e t consnoZide indeed, at all certain in respect to the efficiency of the department that you are not suffering from over ohnesweriattoiofnit. de partments, but one make all of them supervising authority , with a view to act in harmonious combination. (Cheers.) I said at that time that of tfehdaitffyeroeunmt o" of our troops in the fieldt appeared to nee the provisioning which has, practically, and at home by a department but which has ay,no.hing at all to do with that sub ject,the cash supplies for ca great i deal to do with it in reference to I think the d e p ar t ment of en, was wr ong i n principle. ment of check, b u t w h ich is n the A reasury, which is a depart ment, should not be intrusted with n administrative depart- I suggested that the direction of the a duty of that kind; and removed from the Treasury to the mil.?;,:amissariat should. be have expressed my opinion that the 0 adry departments. di vided into two portions. It is now, irednance might be di vided into two portions; for there is the civil in a sense the military department . They are governed and there is man, but not in the same manner. There is, therefore,thesame distinction between the two portions of the department a the Ordnance; but whether the Commander-in-chie ofce have the artillery and the engineers transferred to him is, I think, a grave question for consideration. I have no doubt, when we come to go further into this matter, we shall fi n d there are some sound and valid rea sons for that opinion. My own impression was that the Commander-in-Chi e f was the proper person to have the direction and command of the whole personnel of the army, including the artillery and engineers, and that there should be left to the Ordnance only the civil department, or that which dealt with the great subjects of clothing, stores, and the like. That might be open to misunderstanding; but that it should have been misinterpreted by the right hon. baronet as being a com plete adhesion to the existing system, does, I confess, in spire me with some of those feelings of surprise with which h e a ppears on this occasion to be oppressed. (Hear.) The right ho 4. baronet says the Government ought to h4ve,beela THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 18, 1854, in a condition to act immediately on the spur of the mo ment in this matter, or not at all. The report to which he has came to Well, what uin pn happened o the case? the subject, but there were one or two reports drawn up by referred was The committeepublished different members of that committee; and when the com mission sat which subsequently reported, they dissented from those views, and substituted ono of their own. At any rate, therefore, the subject was not so easy of decision as the right hon. baronet seems to think, This commission attempted to carry that report into effect—and why ? having reported, no Government that succeeded it has ever Be cause they felt the change was so great, involving as it did the remodelling of every military department, and their consequent consolidation, that unless they had a great deal of concurrence of opinion in favour of that specific plan, and unless there was a great change of feeling, in would be in vain to attempt to carry it out. Four Governments suc ceeded to the appointment of that commission, but none of them attempted to make the change which had been sug gested. It might be possible to do a great deal, and I hope it is, at the present moment ; but I must say at the mo ment when every department was strained to its utmost for the purpose of sending out, on a great emergency, a force amounting to nearly 40,000 men, under very great difficulty with regard to ships, but I hope and believe in a state of very great efficiency, if we had chosen that as the time, as suggested by the right hon. baronet, for carrying into practical effect certain theoretical improvements in this and that particular subject—if we had, regardless of delay, and of the great emergency, set about squaring all these departments to a model suggested 25 years ago, the Government would have been unworthy of the position they hold, and unworthy of the confidence of the country. (Cheers.) The Government felt, and justly felt, that the first thing to do was that which pressed most. There is no doubt about it that the duties of a Minister charged with the management of the colonies are so great as to be incompatible with those of carrying on a war. In former years, when this country was at war, the Colonial Mini ster, it is true, carried on the war, but for the simplest of all reasons, that he neglected the colonial business. But that cannot be done now. That, as I have said, was the first thing to be done, because it was necessary to the effi ciency of the service, and therefore we did that first. The noble lord stated the Government would then take care, after due consideration, and step by step, to put the new department on another system, which should free them from the recurrence of acknowledged evils ; but he declined to state exactly how he would distribute the various duties, and what changes he would make in the different depart ments. And he was quite right in acting on general prin ciples, for I may remind the right hon. baronet that this paragraph appears in the report of the committee which sat three years ago :—" Your committee refrain from pointing out any detailed course of action on this subject, leaving the responsibility of that to those whose official position and authority can alone guide them in applying a remedy to the present state of things." I stated at the commencement of the session, when the hon. gentleman the member for Montrose raised this question, what were my views on the subject generally, and what were the views of the Government. From none of those views have I seen any reason to depart. We have already taken this great step ; we have disconnected the co lonies from the War Department. We have, there fore, one responsible head, who can supervise all these establishments, and who can supervise all the changes which are to bo effected in these departments. He will at once have the commissariat put under his authority. That is a great and important step. He will then have the means of examining to what extent the consolidation of the mili tary and civil portions of the Ordnance can be carried into effect. But if you ask us to put the whole machinery out of gear—(hear)—for the sake of introducing some theory which the right hon. baronet might easily in a few mo ments sketch out on a sheet of paper, I say I think the subject is by far too important to be treated so lightly as that ; and on such an emergency the Government are bound to feel their way as they go on. They would not risk the efficiency of those departments, on the efficiency of which the safety and success of our arms at this moment so materially depends. The right hon. gentleman says he cannot understand how you can have two Cabinet Minis ters both engaged in military departments. But I beg him to bear in mind that the duties of the Secretary-at- War are not of an executive character. His duties are delegated to him by the Treasury. (Hear, hear.) The Treasury has the great financial check and control over all the expenditure of the country, but the expenditure of the country is too great and too minute in its details to be sus ceptible of being checked by any officer of the Treasury, and therefore they delegate to the Secretary-at-War, with reference to the army, all the powers which they exercise themselves in respect to other departments of expenditure, and he checks and controls the expenditure with a view to proper economy and efficiency. If, therefore, you have him doing the duties of both departments, he ceases to have any check or control. (Hear, hear.) I have heard the hon. member for Montrose constantly complain that the management of the navy was far more expensive than that of the army. I have no doubt the management of the army has been far more closely looked into than that of the navy, because in the case of the army one man expends the money and another holds the purse ; not a regulation can be made by the Commander-in-Chief without the con sent of the Finance Minister, in the person of the Secre tary-at-War ; and that is the secret of much of the eco nomy in the department of war which had been practised for a great number of years. If, therefore, you combine the two things, you do away with that whole system of econo mical control in the management of the army which has done so much to enhance its efficiency. Again, the right hon. baronet says you ought not to have two Cabinet Mi nisters. But why does he assume you are going to consti tute the departments with two Cabinet Ministers ? He says the office is useless, and if it is useless why not abolish it? I think I have satisfied the house that, financially speaking, the existence of the office of Secretary-at-War is vital to the efficiency of the army. (Hear, hear.) The Secretary at-War now exercises a very wholesome check over the ex penditure of the army ; and I am clearly of opinion that the control which the Secretary-at-War has over the ex penditure of the army, under the Commander in -Chief, ought to be extended to the expenditure which is now under the Master-General, as the commander-in-chief of the Artillery and Engineers. It may be true, as the right hon. baronet says, that the office itself, being quite dis tinct in its nature, will, by the creation of a Secretary of State for War, lose a great deal of its importance. I think it would be an advantage if the house could see the who'e expenditure for maintaining the personnel of the army put before the house from time to time, as much as possible, by the head. (Hear, hear.) There have been a great many things done by the Secretary-at-War which did no t s t r i c tl y devolve upon him, but which the Colonial Minister could not do—(Hear)--and in that way there is no doubt many functions have been performed by him of late years which had better have been performed by some other officer. I still stand out for this, however, if you mean to continue the steadiness with which the financial check has been brought to bear on the expenditure of the army, and which I have shown is so necessary to its good government and economy, you must maintain the office of Secretary at-War as a separate office. But the right hon. gentleman says there ought not to be two Cabinet Ministers. I will not discuss that question with him. I have looked at this matter with perfect impartiality, I believe, and without any party feeling—(cheers) ; and so far from attempting to prevent change I have urged change. I have very freely expressed before Parliament my own opinions as to what evils should be remedied, and how they should be remedied. I have made no secret of those opinions. At this moment I confess I am sorry to bear the right hon. baronet object to there being two Cabinet Ministers, one for the manage ment of the war, and the other for the interior of the army, but having been a long time Secretary -at-War, I felt my knowledge of details might be of some value in enabling the Government, in the work of fusion, to distribut e th e duties of the several departments. (Cheers.) I thought I should not be justified in asking myself in this crisis whether the office I hold should be abolished, and I therefore wil lingly undertook to continue the duties which I now per form. lam sorry the right honourable baronet dis approves of my so doing, but I can only say that the as sistance which I have given shall continue to be given ; and while I refuse to accept the challenge to lay on the table a detailed plan of every change or alteration that may at present be in contemplation—knowing the danger of meddling with a great department of the Government, upon the efficiency of which at this moment depends the safety and much of the success of one of the finest armies that ever went forth to confront an enemy—(cheers)—but hav ing at the same time a perfectly distinct conception that the object we ought to aim at is the redistribution of the duties of the offices in question—l trust the house will not deprive the Government of that assistance and confidence which are necessary to enable them to bring these changes to a good issue, taking care to proceed step by stop ; and if time and the opportunity be given us for doing that, I feel satisfied we can eventually introduce into the military de partments of the State changes which will greatly enhance their efficiency, and on which even now depend the honour and the safety of this country. (Loud cheers.) Colonel DUNNE said, with respect to the proposed transfer of the management of barracks, it so happened that at this moment, when the great body of our troops were abroad, that subject was of the very least importance. The Secretary at War had adverted to the separation of the civil and military departments of the Ordnance. He thought it would be exceedingly difficult to understand the difference between the civil and military departments, and still more to effect their separation. He expressed his gratification that the management of the militia was not to be removed from the department of the Home Secretary, for if the country could not have the services of the noble lord at the head of the war department, it ought at least to have the satisfaction of seeing the militia left entirely in his hands. (Hear, hear.) Mr. G. M. BUTT expressed his surprise at the speeches of the noble lord the President of the Council and the right hon. the Secretary at War. When called upon to vote the estimates for this new department, the committee might at least expect to be furnished with some clear explanation of the new office and the duties of the officers. Nothing of the sort had, however, been vouchsafed, and the speeches to which he had referred could only be understood on the ground that it was thought necessary to appoint an addi tional high officer of State at a large salary, with a consider. able staff to assist him. He did not think that the coun try would consent to the appointment of a second Cabinet officer, if there was to be no consolidation of the duties of the various departments. The vote was then agreed to. THE BRIBERY BILLS, &c. The house then went into committee on the Bribery Bills. Clauses 22 to 25 inclusive were agreed to without com. ment. On elause 26 being proposed, Mr. LIDDELL moved its omission from the bill on the ground that its provisions would involve the candidate in serious penalties for acts even of the most laudable and necessary character, even those of the payment of money on his own private account, unless such payments were made through the election officer. Lord J. RUSSELL expressed his opinion that the result of e n thedr nugatory s o u i s u e t in eu wouldt ofh te election o ffi cer. be, in many cas es , t o He was favourable to the retention of the clause, and ap proved its principle, but thought that some mitigation might be safely made in the extent of the penalty which it enforced. He suggested, therefore, that, instead of mis demeanour, the penalty should be fixed at 50 pound s; an d , if thought necessary, Parliament might hereafter increase ita severity. NIT. G. M. BUTT considered the clause essential to the bill, and approved the mitigatory suggestion of the noble lord. Lord R. GROSVENOR suggested that the magistrate should have power to inflict a lower amottnt of penalty i n cases where the offence did not appear to be of a flagrant character. J. FOX sup ported the retention of tho clause. If the wor d " misdem eauour" was to be withdrawn, the penalty ought to he very considerably increased. Sir F. KELLY opposed the amendment. If they au thorised the payment of any expenses relating to an elec tion except to or through the election officer, they would open the door to a largo expenditure in bribing, treating, and other corrupt practices. (Hear.) Mr. W. WILLIA3IS regretted that the noble lord had consented to withdraw the word " misdemeanour," be cause it was one of the best protections afforded by the bill against bribery. Mr. HILDYARD was afraid that persons subscribing to any election fund would be guilty of a misdemeanour under this clause, although they might have received the sanction of the election officer. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL did not think that the clause would prevent either clubs or private individuals from subscribing their money to secure the return of their favourite candidate; the object of the enactment was sim ply to provide that money so subscribed should be paid in the same way as the money of the candidate himself— through the election officer. It was perfectly plain that unless the prohibitions imposed upon candidates were ex tended to all other persons, the bill would be inoperative. (Hear, hoar.) As to voters clubbing together to pay their common expenses, ho was clearly of opinion that such a case would not coins within the meaning of the clause. Sir J. PAKINGTON approved the clause, but thought the noble lord had made a desirable alteration by modi fying the penalties. Even with this enactment, he was afraid they would not succeed in putting a stop to all im proper practices on the part of the friends of candidates. Mr. NE WDEGATE would ask the Attorney-General whether the fact of voters clubbing their money together would not compel them to give an account of their ex penses to the election officer ? He thought the clause would destroy the independent action of the consti tuencies. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said every man was en titled to pay his own expenses, and the mere fact of his joining with another voter in the payment of their com mon expenses would not bring him within the meaning of the clause. The sole object of the clause was to prevent his expenses being paid by another person without the knowledge or sanction of the election officer. Mr. AGLIONBY thought that this was one of the most valuable clauses in the bill. It was necessary for the pro tection of the honest voter, would enable them to secure purity of election, and was of still more importance as a protection to the candidate himself. In reply to a question from Lord R. GROSVENOR, Sir F. KELLY said he would undertake to propose a clause to this effect—that if, upon the trial of an action to recover these penalties, it should appear to the judge that payments had been made without any illegal intention, it should be competent for him to reduce the penalties to any sum not less than 40s. -- The amendment proposed by Lord J. Russell was then agreed to. Mr. LIDDELL said he was still unsatisfied with the clause, and would persist in his motion for its rejection. The committee then divided, when there voted— For the clause ll5 Against it 26 Majority The clause was accordingly agreed to as amended. Clause 27 provides that an account of the election ex penses should be made out by the election officer. Mr. HENLEY suggested that the abstract to be pub lished should contain an account of all sums claimed, as well as paid, otherwise it would not afford the candidate a sufficient protection against exorbitant claims. Mr. WALPOLE thought the clause was sufficient as it stood. It provided that the election officer should make a return of all the expenses incurred by the candidate; that should embrace all claims made upon him. Sir F. KELLY had no objection to introduce th 3 words " and all sums claimed, although the same shall not have been allowed." The clause as amended was then agreed to. On clause 28, Mr. HENLEY said that this clause enacted that the returning officer should keep copies of the accounts in some convenient place for public inspection ; but it did not pro vide a sufficient machinery for that purpose. Mr. G. E. H. VERNON thought that the proposed remuneration of 101. to the election officer would not at all compensate him for the labour imposed by the clause. After a few words from Mr. A GLIONBY and Mr. ELLIOT, Sir F. KELLY admitted that some place ought to be fixed by the act where the accounts should be deposited. He would suggest the office of the clerk of the peace in counties, and of the town clerk in boroughs. The accounts, however, could be deposited with them till they were complete, some time after the election might elapse before that, and it would therefore bo necessary to provide some place for their custody in the interval. He would be pre pared to make a proposition on bringing up the report. Mr. HENLEY considered that the matter required groat care ; it was necessary that some person should be in constant attendance, or the accounts might be tampered with by any person making a copy, The clause was then agreed to. On clause 29, providing that the election officer shall in sert an abstract of the accounts in two newspapers pub lished or circulated in the place, Lord R. GROSVENOR wished to know who was to pay for the advertisement. Sir F. KELLY said the expense should be defrayed by the candidates. Lord SEYMOUR reminded the hon. and learned mem ber that there were many districts in which there were not two newspapers published. Sir F. KELLY said the clause met the difficulty by the word " circulated." Mr. lIILDYARD did not see any necessity for the pub lication in the papers at all. H e i n t en d ed to take the sense of the committee on the clause. If the accounts were to be published, he thought the claims ought to be also, and not a mere abstract. Mr. AGLIONBY thought one newspaper would be suf ficient. He would move an amendment to that effect. Mr. GROGAN said the publication in the papers would be very expensive. He would suggest that the accounts b e not published 1101053 on the requisition of either can didate. Sir J. PAKINGTON hoped his right hon. friend the chairman of the select committee, or some other member of it, would assign a reason for the clause. It seemed to him very absurd ; it gave no security, and he would vote against it unless some good reason was given. Mr. MAGAN suggested that the accounts should be placarded through the district instead of being published in the papers,____ Lord SEYMOTIR asked who was to pay the election officer for the expense of advertising ? The clause was only permissive and not compulsory, and he regarded it as all nonsense. Sir F. KELLY said the clause was not his production, but that of the hon. member for Manchester (Mr. Bright). Still he thought it important. Its object was to give pub licity to the accounts, but more especially to the names of parties who made claims upon candidates. No greater check could be devised against improper claims upon can didates than publication, and ho hoped it would be adopt ed. The expenses of advertising would form part of the election expenses, and would not fall upon the election officer. At the same time he thought a single advertise ment would be sufficient in any one newspaper published or circulated in the county or place. The clause having been amended to this effect, Mr. HILDYARD thought that his hon. and learned friend ought not to disavow the authorship of the clause. He reminded him of the maxim, " Qui facit per alium facit per se." He objected to the whole cause on the ground that it required the publication of all claims upon the candidates which were allowed, while there was no direction to pub lish those which were disallowed. He moved an addition to this effect, but should still take the sense of the committee upon the question that the clause stand part of the bill. Sir F. KELLY said the word " account" in this and in the two preceding clauses would include the publication of the charges disallowed. Still, if this interpretation was objected to by his hon. and learned friend, he would not oppose the introduction of words to the effect he desired. Mr. HILD YARD totally differed from this interpreta tion of the three clauses. Mr. BRIGHT said publication in the newspapers of ab stracts would be a check upon expenditure to which the candidate ought not to be exposed. He recommended the house to adopt the clause without the amendment sug gested by the hon. and learned member for Whitehaven. Sir J. IVALSH contended that a great object was to be obtained by the introduction of the words proposed by the hon. and learned member for Whitehaven. By holding up unjust claims upon candidates the committee would be doing as much for the prevention of bribery as they would by the publication of admitted claims. Mr. BENTINCK subbinitted that tho time should be limited during which the election officer should bo obliged to submit the accounts to inspection. Twelve months was too long; three months were sufficient; and ho should move an amendment to this effect on the report. Mr. WALPOLE approved of the clause as it stood. Tho effect of the amendment moved by the hon. and learned member for Whitehaven would bo that candidates would have all sorts of exorbitant and unjust claims made upon them by mischievous persons. Mr. HILD YARD could not accede to this reasoning. If the candidate was called upon to publish at all, he ought to publish the claim s that were wrong fully made upon him, anti he denied that it would be either vexatious or unwar rantable. Mr. MASSEY sa id the 28th clause e ff ec t e d a ll the pur pose of necessary scandal. Publicity, and all ,beyond was mere After a few words from Mr. G. BUTT, who said he should vote for the rejection of the whole clause, The ATTORNEY -GENERA L sa id it was o f g r eat im portance to insu re aut h en ti c p u blicity. The 28th clause enabled every e l ector to obtain t h e accoun t s , an d he mi g ht publish the m if he thought proper ; but it would be better to adopt means to secure publicity in an authentic form. This was the duty of the election officer, and the object of it was th a t the public might know the amount of the ex penditure. As to making it incumbent upon the officer to publish the claims he disallowed as well as those allowed, it was a mino r po i nt. H e d id no t see much objection to it, t certainly publication by the election officer was one of the most important parts of the bill. (Hear.) Mr ' V. SMITH said the object of this bill was to invoke public opinion in diminution of expenses, and for the pre vention of bribery. newspa pers, the provision for which he This could only be done by publishing th© a ccounts in the regarded as ono of t h e mos t important in the bill. But ho did not think it would bo beneficial to publish accounts which were disallowed. Mr. PIGOTT objected to the amendment, on the ground that it would tend to encourage litigation on the part of candidates. After a few words from Mr. BENTINCK, Lord R. GROSVENOR called attention to the fact that the clause did not state by whom the expenses of the pub lication of the accounts wore to be paid. He gave notice that he should propose that they be paid out of the county or borough rate, and in cases where there was neither, that a special rate should be laid for the purpose after the election. _ . _ SCULLY thought that all claims whatever should be published. He was favourable to the utmost publicity. Mr. HILDYARD withdrew his previous verbal amend ment in order to move to insert after the word " correct," " or claims unobjected to," and at the end of the clause, "or by which the same have been claimed respectively." The amendment was agreed to. Lord R. GROSVENOR moved to acid at the end of the clause, "the expenses of such publication to be defrayed out of the county rate or the borough rate, and where th ere is neith er a coun t y nor b o rough rate, by a special rate denominated an election rate, to be levied on the electoral district." Lord J. RUSSELL thought there was some omission in the bill in not providing for payment of the cost of publica• tion. Supposing the expense were to be paid by the candi date, a very fit place for making that addition would be at the end of clause 34. But his noble friend said it ought to be paid out of the borough or county rate. He thought a great principle was involved in that proposal, and there fore it should be made either by a separate bill, or by a separate clause and not by adding a few words at the en d of a clau se . He did not think it advisable to throw the expenses of an election on a county or borough, and this amendment involved that principle, different from the law as it now stood. Mr. DEEDES objected to the amendment. Mr. BRIGHT believed from his experience of newspaper proprietors there would be great competition to get hold of these accounts and to publish them. They would prove an interesting item of intelligence, and Ue should be quite content to have no provision with regard to payment for publication. It would be greatly advantageous to the public as well as to the candidates that publication should take place ; the public would be great gainers by the pub lication ; and he was quite satisfied to allow the question of publicity to settle itself. Mr. lIEADLIM agreed in thinking the newspapers would compete for the publication, but that argument was not conclusive against the clause, as a preceding clause provided for one authentic copy being exhibited, from which the newspapers would make publication. Mr. lIILDYARD said it was quite clear the house would be guilty of a great constitutional mistake if it cast any burden on the particular body or district which returned members. The constitutional law was that they were members, not for the benefit of this or that place, but for the benefit of the nation. If the expense was to be borne by the public, it must come out of the public purse, for whose benefit they sat there, if they sat there for the benefit of anybody, which people out of doors doubted. (A laugh.) To throw any expense on a particular place would be recognising that the member for that place was bound to look exclusively to their interests. The amendment was withdrawn. On the question that the clause stand part of the bill, Lord J. RUSSELL submitted that it was a very valu able clause, which he hoped the committee would adopt. It was very true th,re would be competition to publish these accounts, but nobody could say, unless there were an authorised publication, that it would be a fair and correct publication. The newspapers of ono party would give cer tain extracts from the accounts, and the newspapers of the other party would give certain other extracts, but there would not be a fair publication of the official copy of the accounts. He thought it very desirable the constituents should know what sum had been expended, and how that account was made up. . _ Mr. HILDYARIi objected to the clause altogether, and assured the house the expense of these publications would be very heavy in counties whore there were a great many polling places, and a corresponding number of items. The committee divided— For the clause l7B Against it 94 Majority --84 The clause was accordingly agreed to, as was also clause 30. On clause 31 being proposed, Mr. BENTINCK called attention to the fact, that up to the present time no precaution had been taken with re spect to the character of the person to be appointed elec tion officer. Sir F. KELLY said that means would be taken to have the duties of the election officer efficiently performed byimposing penalties for the non-performance of them. If an election officer were guilty of embezzlement or ran away, he would be indictable and liable to punishment. It was originally pro posed to appoint a barrister, but the proposal was met both in the committee and in the house with universal disapprobation. Ho would be exceedingly indebted, and he was sure the Government would also be indebted, to any hon. gentleman who would frame a clauso to meet the difficulty of the case. Mr. BENTINCK did not see that there was much use in indicting a man who had gone to America. Ho did not see anything in the clause to enforce the payment of money, or the return of documents in the hands of an election officer at the time of his death by heirs. Mr. J. BALL suggested there should boa power of ap. peal against the domination of an improper person. Mr. HILDYARD thought that security should be given that the person who was appointed should not be a person who was capable of absconding, and thereby preventing an investigation into the practices that had taken place. The clause was then agreed to. On clause 32 being proposed, Lord SEYMOUR wished to know how an agent was to act who was going about the country incurring expenses ; should he take the election officer with him, or should he return to the election officer to have the expenditure ap proved of ? Sir F. KELLY stated that the candidate would appoint his agent in writing, and notify the appointment to the election officer, so that every person interested in the elec tion might know who the agents were that the candidate had appointed. Mr. LABOUCHERE wished to receive some explana tion of what was meant by an agent. Sir F. KELLY replied that an agent was indicated by the payment of money, but a person could not be consi dered an agent because he bad conveyed a letter or per formed a small matter of that kind. Mr. B. DENISON said, that if agency were to be con fined under this clause to the payment of money, it should be so stated. Mr. HENLEY said that it was rather hard to ask the house to pass a clause directing a candidate to make a de claration, when they did not know what he was to declare. He thought that they should have some more precise defi nition of the word "agent" than was contained in the bill. He did not see how this clause could be carried out in the case—not a very unfrequent ono—in which a person was nominated without his knowledge. He would then be a "candidate," and as such would by this clause be compelled to inform the election of of the name of his agent, although in fact he had none and knew nothing about the matter. Mr. V. SCULLY suggested that the words "if any° should be inserted after the word "agent" He did this in order to meet the case of a candidate not having an agent. - Mr. G. H. VERNON asked if it would be possible to insert a provision to make some one answerable for the expenditure, in the place of the candidate, in cases where the latter was nominated without his knowledge. Could they not, in such a case, throw the responsibility upon his proposer. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL thought that some pro vision should be inserted to enable some one, in the absence of a candidate, to do what he might and ought to do if present, otherwise the current expenses could not be paid. Sir F. KELLY also thought that some provision was requisite t•o meet the case of a candidate nominated with out his knowledge. It would, however, be impossible to insert words with that object in the present clause. He would undertake to frame a clause which, if assented to by the house, might be inserted on bringing up the report. Lord ADOLPHUS V. TEMPEST then moved that the following provision should be added to the clause : " And no person being a candidate at any election, or hav ing been elected, who shall have made the declaration re quired by this act, and shall in all things have well and truly conformed thereto, and shall not have been guilty of any contravention of this act, shall be liable civilly or cri minally, nor shall his election be questioned by reason of any illegal act done by any oth e r p e rson th a n his agent or agents named and notified to the election officer, accord ing to the provisions of this act, unless such illegal act shall be proved to have been done by or with his authority or sanction : Provided al ways, that nothing herein con tained shall be deemed to legalise any controverted elec tion, or to affect the jurisdiction of a select committee of the House of Commons over any election which shall be shown to have been obtained by bribery or any other ille gal act or acts or practices." The ATTORNEY-GENERAL opposed the amendment, and said he believed all the good which the bill was calcu lated to effect would be very dearly purchased if such an innovation was introduced. It had been hitherto held that candidates were responsible for the acts of their agents, at least in a Parliamentary sense, if not in a legal one. Mr. WA LPOLE thought that the clause proposed by his noble friend simply provided that, before the seat of a member was taken away, or before a candidate was affected by the consequences of bribery, treating, and undue in fluence, it should be shown that such acts were done, not merely by his friends, but with his implied or expressed authority, or were subsequently sanctioned by him. the introductiondi d lie t think e f t this i s n a e a w mendment e h n u t t proposed o r s a e t c h l 0. of an old law. RS Mr. G. P. BENTINCK thought that the a h e o j u is se state w bound to apply some remedy to the very of a a n e- o e m nts rested at of the law on this question. The c as e committees of the present solely on the caprice of elec tion of his noble anything like recognition those who had charge of the bill friend was not carried, the to remedy this would themselves adopt 50100 anomalous, if not absurd, state of things. f house, 3ir. H a and A h D e LA m hoped o p t p h o a s t eidf the sp amen d mentraoipsadoption theamend ment, which he considered o p ened a side door to brib ery an d c orruption. The candidates , if it were carried, might reap with impunity all the advantages of such acts. Mr. AG LIONBY also opposed the amendment. Lord J. RUSSELL feared that the proviso would greatly embarrass the operations of the bill, and that there would be danger in the principle. The committee divided, when the numbers were— For the amendment Against it 143 Majority The amendment was, therefore, lost; and the clause, as ' amended, was ordered to stand part of the bill. The CHAIRMAN then reported progress, and obtained leave to sit again on Thursday. STAMP DUTIES BILL. The house then went into committee on this bill, and resumed the consideration of its clauses. Clause 9 having been agreed to, several new clauses were brought up by Mr. WILSON, and incorporated in the bill. Mr. VANCE moved the addition of the following clause : —" Whereas it is expedient to reduce the stamp duty now t e l bill l forar dutyre-distributing any payable on deed s o f su b m i ss i on an d award in cases of arbi tration ; be it enact e d th a t th e s t amp duty of 35s now payable on deeds of su b m i ss i on an d award in cases of arbi tration, shall be r e d uce d t o th e sum of 205. " w a 3 e I r n . :W reason I L WILSON Of for reducing u d n h g i s th w is as p a ar b and not reducing the s t am p d u ti es, and therefore there more than there was for reducing any other of the duties. The committee divided, when the numbers were-- For the clause Against t in i g t 1 clauses w ere agreed to, the CHAIIIMAN4S3 Arclauseegnai - T Th h e e reported progress, and the house resumed. STANDARD OF GOLD AND SILVER WARES BILL. The house went into committee on this bill, the various clauses of which were agreed to. read a e t t h h i i r r d d time readingan d passed.f this bill, illw The house h av i ng resumed, the order for the third read o ing of the Wre c k an d S alvage Bill was discharged. Ths JOIN T - STOCK BANKS (SCOTLAND) BILL. POOR- LAW CONTINUANCE (IRELAND) BILL. On i th b e orde a r s fo e r a d h Colonel DUNNE asked for an inquiry into the expenses of the commission, which he characterised as extravagant, and also into the administration of the law in Ireland. Mr. J. BALL denied that the expenses of the commis sion were extravagant, and, notwithstanding it was a (luster past one o'clock, and in spite of unmistakeable manifesta tions of impatience on the part of house, adduced statistics upon the subject. Mr. BUTT, with a view "to cut short the debate," moved its adjournment. Sir JOHN YOUNG opposed the motion as unreason able, and promis e d that, during the recess, inquiries should be made into the powers and expenses of the com mission. He thought that this assurance ought to be suf ficient, and could not consent to an inquiry into the whole working of the law, with which he believed the majority of the Irish people were satisfied. The house divided on the question of adjournment, and the numbers were— For the motion Against it B3 Majority Mr. VANSITTART then moved the adjournment of the house; when, upon a division, there appeared For the motion Against it Majority -76 Colonel DITNNE moved an amendment limiting the existence of tho new commission to two instead of four years, as originally proposed. The house divided, when there appeared— Yor the motion Against it ... . ' Majority" 45 The bill wo then road a time. JAMAICA LOAN BILL. On the motion of Mr. WILSON this bill passed through committee. CHANCERY AMENDMENT BILL. On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL this bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday. COURT OF CHANCERY (COUNTY PALATINE OF LANCASHIRE) BILL. On the motion of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL this bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. REGISTRATION OF BILLS OF SALE (IRELAND) BILL. This bill wag read a third time and passed. MEDICAL GRADUATES (UNIVERSITY OF LONDON) BILL. On the motion that this bill bo read a third time, Mr. COWAN expressad a hope that it would be post poned until the next sesKion. - After some discussion. the third reading was postponed till Thursday. SALE OF BEER, &c., BILL. Mr. W. PATTEN moved the'second readin g of this bill. Mr. SCHOLEFIELI) said he would oppose the bill unless the hon. member would agree to extend the time of closing public-houses on Sunday evenings from nine o'clock until ten. Lord D. STUART supported the proposition of the hon. member for Birmingham. After a few remarks from Mr. F. CROSSLET, Mr. W. PAT I'EN• agreed to the suggestion of the hon. member for Birmingham. The bill was read the second time. The Returning-officer Bill passed through committee. At the suggestion .of the SOLICITOR-GENERAL, Mr. PELLATT withdrew the Letters Patent for Inven tions Bill. TITI9 OXFORD BILL In reply to a question from Sir J. PAKINGTON, Lord J. RUSSELL, said there were so many important bills which had not, yet gone up to the House of Lords, and so many votes of supply which had not yet been sub mitted to the house, that he had been obliged to postpone the consideration of the Lords' amendments to the Ox ford Bill till Thursda.y . week, at 12 o'clock. He would pro ceed with supply on the evening of Thursday first. Sir J. YOUNG o')tained leave to introduce a bill for amending the laws )relating to the militia, and raising a volunteer militia for co in Ireland. Mr. FITZROY obtained leave to introduce a bill to con tinue the exemption of inhabitants from liability to be rated as such in respoclt of stock in trade or other property to the relief the poor. Mr. MONSELL ohtained leave to introduce a bill to facilitate the purchast of common, commonable, and other rights by the principal officers of her Majesty's Ordnance. Mr. PELLATT obtained leave to introduce a bill to amend the provisions of the marriage acts relating to Dis senters. The house adjourned at a quarter-past two. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. TATT ERSALL'S-YESTERDAY. Thanks to Amr nonia, there was a very pleasant re viver for the fielders in the settlement of the accounts connected with tht.3 recent meeting at Aintree. Much of the depression which previously existed was manifestly removed. For along time past loss had followed loss in almost uninterrupted succession, so surely were the favourites, in most, instances, " spotted" against them. On coming events only-a comparatively small amount of business was transacted. Tros, said to have been tried very satisfactorily, was in great force for the Goodwood Stakes ; at 7 and 6 to I a considerable sum of money was invested. Happy was firm at the odds quoted. Diana under suspicion ; at one time she receded to 10 to 1, but, after a slight rally, 9to 1 was taken to 501. The Crusader was re markably quiet, considering the v er y ac ti ve part h e played in the betting at Liverpool. Sr. LEGEB.—After 4 to,l had been taken about King Tom to nearly 1001., 5 to 1 was bettied in fifties. At the close, however, 400 to 100 was booked. THE DERBY.—Tbroughout the afternoon a lively in terest was created by the introduction of a new favou rite bearing the " taking" title of the Lord of the Isles. He is by Touchstone, out of Fair Helen, and is training at William Day's. He is engaged at the Lavant and Molecomb Stakes, next week, at Goodwood. At the commencement 40 to 1 was laid, but so warm was the support he received, that at the close scarcely 25 to 1, was obtainable. 1,000 to 100 taken in one bet about Gruculus Esuriens, 1,000 to 50 Cruiser, 1,000 to 25 and 400 to 10 Moonbeam colt, and 1,000 to 15 Rambling Katie. The prices at the close were as follow : BURGHLEY STAKES (STAMFORD.) Even on Mr. Payne's Cock Pheasant. GOODWOOD STAKES. 5 to 1 agst Mr. Harrison's Heapy (6 to 1 taken) 11 to 2 agst Lord Zetland's Tros (6 to 1 taken freely) 9 to 1 agst Mr. Howard's Diana (taken) 20 to 1 agst Mr. J. Stanley's Crusader (taken) 20 to 1 agst M. Lupin's Jouvence (taken) 25 to 1 agst Mr. E. Parr's Newbold (taken) 25 to 1 agst Mr. T. Parr's Jonathan Martin (taken) 5 to 1 agst Messrs. Greville and Payne's " lot" (taken; dOODWOOD CUP. 7 to 4 on Mr. Howard's Virago 10 to 1 agst Mr. T. Parr's Rataplan (taken) ST. LEGER. 4 to 1 agst Baron Rothschild's King Torn (taken) DERBY. 10 to 1 agst Mr. Bowes's Grmculus Esuriens (taken) 20 to 1 agat Lord Dorchester's Cruiser (taken) 15 to 1 agst Mr. Merry's Lord of the Isles (taken) 40 to 1 agst Mr. Parr's c by Van Tromp out of Moon beam (taken) 1000 to 15 agst Lord John Scott's Rambling Katie (taken) RACING FIXTURES FOR 1854. JULY. Liverpool l2 Abingdon l3 Ipswich 13 1 Stourbridge l7 Stamford 18 Newton 18 Knutsford. l9 Nottingham 2O Great Grimsby 24 Goodwood 25 Radcliffe I)eritend Pool Ripon 3 ~. pay when made up From what 1, ..„'na COUNTRIES. in General Post- P ort due l a lan Office, London.* Dispatched. E121L , 1. „..." -• -- ---____-- America(byßrit.pack)N Every Friday .. • • Liverpool ... America (by United Sts. Am packet ... ... ..N erica ) . (by U. States .......... Liverpool ... Jul 19 , Packet) ..... .... N •• • • ...... Southampton , Australia (via South ampton) ..........M July 4 .... . • Southampton Augt , st Ditto (via Marseilles) N ....... Dover .....- Ditto (via Cape o f G oo d .. Hope) .. ........ ..N July 1 .. ...... , .. ... UnartAU/ Africa (West Coast) ..Nl3d o f th e month . Plymouth.. ,A.rrivv _A Alexandria..........N 9,9, 24, & 30 o f m. Dover ...... Alexandria..........Ml4th & 20th of mon.,Southampton Bahamas ... ... ... .. ID 17th of the montl.!Sonthampton Belgium ............N! Dail Y •• • • •• • • ..:Dover .....• Brazil .........., • • id i9th of the month .. 'South am pton July . 1 ! Buenos Ayres ......... M ;9th of the Month.. Southampton ( rub' ly Cape of Good Horn ..,N , 1 ith of the month Plmouth .• Cape of Good Hope ..N,l4th o f th e month. iSou y thampt on Cape de Verds ...... 14th of the mo n th 'S outhampton Ceylon (see India) I 6 - 0 4ss. Ceylon ..............N 'l4th of th e month JOY 2 0 Channel Isles .. .. .... N I Mon ~Wed.,&Frid. ,So u th am pt on TU. r'; - Chi11................M , 2cl & 17th of month 1 ISstuthampton li .Tull ' China (see India) Constantinople ......1.1 7,8,17,21 ,&27 of m. 'Dover .. .. .. Constantinople ........ 4th & 20th of mon."Southampton Twig Cont. of Europe M & N Twice daily ...• . • 'Dover - .... Vv. - Egypt (see India) „tr Franco ........ M & N T w i ce d a i1 y...... „ ,Dover ...... i•• • eilatif .., 0 Gibraltar .. ikt 4, 7,17, 20, 27 of m. Southampton Jul/ ' Greece (see India) Hamburgh .... .. ....N Tuesday 1 17th of mon. Southampton Julf 16 Friday 'London .....1 Havannah .... .... .. M I2nd of th & e month 'Southampton Aug' 1 Holland .......... .. id Dai1y....., • • • Honduras .......... id 17th of th e month. Southampton Julf 16 0 India (via Southampt.)2•l:4th & 20th of mon. Plymouth • • VW , India (via Marseilles)M,Bth&2lth of month Dover ......1 lonian Isles (see India) 7, 17, &27 of mon Dover...• •• I „ c oil/ Ireland ........M & N Twice daily ...... flokr head ..'Twi' 26 Lisbon ..............31 7,9, 17, &27 of m..Southampton'Jtl l l ,6 Madeira ............m ,9th of the month iSouthanip ton ~ .TalY • Madeira ..... Malta (see India) Malta „ Mauritius (see India) Mauritius .........N 14th of the month , ~,,, Mexico ~ ,„. .. .2j.2m1 of the month. Southampton .....' 1 Naples - .... .......,N ' sols th2.sthormon. l Dover .. .. , New Granada .... ..Ml2d & 17th of month !Southampton AO Now Zealand.. Papal States ........N sth I s th2 s thofmon. Dover ...... Peninsula Peru .. Port Natal ~ ........N 'l4th of the month Plymouth .. Sicily .............. N l 5 thlsth2stharnen, Dover ...... Tuscany ............Nlsthlsth2.stholinon. Dover .. • ... . 16 Venezuela ... .. .m2d a 17th ofm ont h Southampton Ju l Van Diemen's Land (see Australia) ......... West Indies ...,, .„ „„. 31'2dg: 17th of month Slnlifhanmtni,Snlc 16 . S'outhapipton 'July 16 AUGUST. Brighton Airdrie Durham Brighton Club 4 Ripon 7 Yarmouth 8 North Staffordshire 8 Reading Lewes lO Wolverhampton l4 SEPT: Warwick Lichfield Western Meeting 7 Rochester and Chatham 7 Doncaster 12 Pontefract 13 Bedford 19 Chester Autumn 3 Kelso 3 Yorkshire Union Hunt 5 Wrexham 5 Newmarket S 0 9 Caledonian Hunt 11 Warwick Autumn 17 Richmond 18 Newmarket II 23 Worcester Autumn 31 CRICKET. THE GENTLEMEN v. THE PLAYERS. This great annual match was commenced yesterday at Lord's when something like 2,000 spectators were upon the ground. At the commencement of the match the betting in the pavilion was 6 to 4 on the players, but at the close of the day the odds were stol on them. This was the state of the score when time was called : GENTLEMEN. First Innings. Mr. W. Nicholson, c Bickley, b Wisden Hon. H. S. Ponsonby, c Lockyer, b Wisden Mr. A. Haygarth, b Grundy.... 6 Mr. H. Vernon, b Wisden 2 Mr. C. Charles, b Grundy 2O Second Innings, 11 not out.. Mr. E. Balfour, b Wisden 1 1b w b Grundy ll Mr. F. Walker, b Grundy 9 Mr. E. T. Drake, c Wiaden, b Martingell 6 c Challen, b Wisden.. 0 Mr. C. D. Marsham, b Martingell 1 Sir F. Bathurst, b Wisden l2 Mr. A. Payne, not out 0 b 2 2 1b 2 2 Total 95 PLAYERS. Total 29 First Innings. 27 Dean, b Drake Grundy, b Bathurst John Lillywhite, st Nicholson, b Drake .... 6 Lockyer, c Balfour, b Payne Wisden, b Payne Martingell, run out Adams, b Drake Clifford, b Payne Mortlock, not out Challen, b Marsham Bickley, st Nicholson, b Drake 87, w 2 23 Total The match was resumed this morning. -148 PUBLIC WORKS.—The Board of Public Works are at present busily employed. The old mansion adjoining Lord Harrington's, in Whitehall, is being prepared for the new Secretary of War. The mansion of the late Duke of Leeds, in St. James's-square, and lately occupied by Mr. Lane Fox, has been purchased for the copyhold depart. ment, the business of which has heretofore been trans acted in Whitehall. It is in contemplation to surround the whole of Greenwich Park with rails. FURTHER CLOSING OF PUBLIC-HOUSES ON SUNDAY. —The " Sale of Beer, &c., Bili," just brought in by Mr. Wilson Patten, proposes to provide, under a 51. penalty for every sale, that public-houses and beer-shops in Eng land and Wales shall not be open for the sale of spirits, wine, or beer (except to bona fide travellers or lodgers therein) between 2 and 6 o'clock, or after 9, on Sunday, Christmas-day, Good Friday, or any Fast or Thanks giving-day. These houses would then be open only from 1 to 2, and from 6 to 9. Another clause provides that no person shall open any house or place of public resort for the sale of fermented or distilled liquors, or sell therein such liquors on those days, except as refreshment for travellers ; and a n y cons t a bl e ma y a t any time enter into any house or plac e o f pu bli c resor t for the sale of spirits, wine, beer, or other fermented or distilled liquors. APOTHECARIES'-HALL.—The following are the names of the gentlemen who passed their examination in the science and practice of medicine, and received certificates to practise, on Thursday, July 13, 1854 :—Thomas Webb, Cheadle, Staffordshire; Henry Vale James, Leominster, Herefordshire; George Fernier Sleigh, Wm. Turubull, Lancaster, Egham Folkestone, Hythe, and Sandgate l7 York Hereford Eccles 2B Chelmsford 29 Derby 29 Plymouth 30 Lincoln 3l IMBER. Leicester 2O Manchester Autumn 2l ILanark ............... 25 Newmarket F 0 26 Walsall .................... Northallerton 27 28 BER. 0 Cr 12 , 1&; 17th of month 1 ......,„...-- n 0 will * When any of these d a t es f all ol a Sunday, the malls -,,„ I 4 I despatched on the follo w i ng d ay, with the exception of the IL tIO Southampton), and the Malta, both of w hi c h w il l b e degpa t c he° preceding day. [ADVERTISEMENT.] Her Majesty's Royal L tte IS Patent, f or va l ua bl e and extraordinary impr ovementle, the most powerful and brilliant Telescopes, Camp, 13 .itb course, Opera, and Perspective Gl asses ( g l az ed " of Munic German Glass), to know the distance s v es object s viewed throu,gh them—of gr ea t i m ports n s. to the army, navy, and others. Messrs. S. al l _ t , 1 ; 01 , Solowon s , op ti c i ans, 39, Albemarle-street, Picciw,i, Observe —opposite the York Hotel.—These telescopeel9 ~ less such e x t raor di nary powers that some 3i inches, vo, an extra eye-piece, will show distinctly Jupiter's 133 11 e , Saturn's rin g , an d th e d ou bl e stars ; with the same oe. ' , lope can be seen a p erson ' s coun t enance three 11;00, and a half dist an t, an d an o bj ec t f rom 12 to 11 °Lei. They are of larger and all sizes, with increasing 1 3° "ble, accordingly.—The Roy a l Exhibition, I&sl.—Vale s e t newly-invented, very small, p ower f u l wa i s tcoat-Pleeo glass the size of a wa l nu t, b y w hi c h a person can be_....°00 and known 1i mile distant ; they answer every p ro s' on the race-course, and at the opera-houses, eountrf e l nery, and ships are clearly seen a t 5 t o I to 6 are invaluable for shooting, deer-stalking, yachting , 0, sportsmen, gentle me n, game k eepers, an d tourists. pill race-course, camp, and persp ec ti ve glasses, with won 'OO power ; an object can be clearly seen from 10 to 12 0 40 1 distant. Newly-invented Spectacles ; immediately :el are placed before ex t reme l y i mperfect vision, 'de object becomes clear and distinct ; the most aged , fective eight is brought to its youthful, natural, and - 0; ginal state. Deafness—New Discovery —The Organ4,o6 brator, an extraordi nary powerful, small, newly-111%0 instrument, for Deaf ness , en ti re l y different from all Ou-bli to surpass anything of the kind that has been, or pro ever can be, produced. Being of the same colour as o pt skin, is n o t p ercept ib le ; it enables deaf persons to l e r distinctly at church and at public assemblies ; the 1 01) sant sensation of singing noises in the ears is entirely e J moved ; and it affords all the assistance that possibli °° e, be desired.-39, Albemarle-street, Pi cca dilly. Oboe opposite the York Hotel. BIRTHS. OF A SON. ote On the 13th inst., at the Rectory, Stoke Newington' wife of the Rev. Thos. Jackson. if e On the 14th inst., at 18, Ru s s e ll- s t ree t, B a th, the vl of J. T. Craster, Esq., H.M. 38th Regiment. OF A DAUGHTER. On the 13th inst., at th e Vi carage , G rea t WA l °l Essex, the o wife f the Rev. o , 0- On tho 14th inst., at 2, Bayswater-terrace, the w l Joseph Charlior, Esq. -." MARRIED. ChetOn the 13th inst., a t St. Luke's, Chelsea, = r oof' Saintsbury, Esq., of th e B an k of England, to Sarah t. her lotto, second daught er o f R o b ert Lemon Esq., ° Majesty's State-Paper Office. , DIED. On the 14th inst., at Dunchurch, Mary Amelia of General S amue l Dalrymple, late of the COW Guards, aged 72. On the 15th inst., at Highgate, Thomas Clark° , solicitor to the Board of Ordnance, aged 65. On the 14th inst., at 20, Queen-street, iitsyfiut'f Sit five week s , o f h oop i ng coug h , Blanche, only child ° Henry Vavasou r , B ar t. I.l s ug ir On the 14th inst., at Bayswater, Ellen M a tilda 0 0 1 1 ton James, eldest daughter of C o l one l H oug hton 6 of the Bombay Army. LONDON : Printed and Publish e d by MURDO 17 :9 .0 of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at The Sun Office, - 11 . . ° V Strand, in the Precinct of th e S avo y, i n the CO.''' Middlesex latsdoy, J - 14 148, COUNTRY MARKETS. CHELMSFORD —JULY 14. We had a good supply of wheat for the time of year, with a very dull trade, and last week's prices were barely maintained. Spring corn of all sorts without alteration, excepting barley; which were scarce, and the turn dearer. Prices to-day were as follow :—Wheat, white, old 57s Od to 80s Od, new 57s to 81s ; red, old 47s to . 7f , s, new 47! to 75s ; barley, 27 s t o 35 s ; c h eval i er, 33s to 38s ; grinding , 21s to 3)s ; malt, 71 s t o 75 s ; chevalier, 74s to 78s ; oatf-, 26s to 33s ; peas, partridge, 40s to 45s ; white, 479 to OS ; boiling 5-ls to hi s ; dun, new, 40s to 42s ; beans, tick, 41s to 41s ; Harrow ticks, 39s to 47s ; Mazagan, 406 to 445. COLCHESTER JuLY 15. We had a fair supply of wheat to this day's market. Tho weather being warmer and more summerlike has had its influence on prices, and wheat was only taken by con sumers at 2s and 3s per qr. under last week's rates. In spring corn very little doing at declining prices. Prices to-day were as follow :—Wheat, white, 763 to 865; red, 6Ss to 76s ; barley, 34s to 38s ; oats, 30s to 34s ; beset'► Mazagan, 42s to 44s ; middle and small, 46s to 48s ; Pea 4 white, 56s to 60s ; grey, 42s to 445. Official Statem en t o f th e Q uantities of Corn, Sze., receive , in the port of London, from the following ports, from the 10th to the 15th July, both inclusive. j c~ ....i I c A 7 1 ' ' - ' Flo g 6 XI P 4 16 - 71 Colchester Harwich Leigh Maldon ..1 430 --- 25 0 204 KIRKCALDY—JULY 15. Here to-day we had small supplies of all kinds of grai n ' Sales slow. Barley and oats were 6d to is per qr. lower' Wheat sold to consumers at from is to 2s per qr. more money than on last market day. Wheat. Barley. 1 Oats. I Beans. 1 First Second Third I Ms Od 30s Od 32s Od Os Od Oatmeal, per bag of 2801bs imperial, 00s Od to 00s Od. ABERDEEN—JLY 14. The prices of grain to-day are u Oats, 28s Od to 29s OJ, 40 lbs per bushel; new oats, 00s Od to OOs Cd, 401bs Fe r bushel ; bere, 29s Od t o 31 s Od , 531b s per bushel ; barley , 29s Oct to 31s Od, 531b s per b us h el ; wheat, red, 60s Od t. Ole Od, 621ba pe r b us h e l ; w h ea t , w hi te, 60s Oct to 68s 0?, 621bs per bushel ' • oatmeal, 23s Oct to 24s Od per bob; flour, 55s Od to 57s Od per sank. Provisions—Beef, per lb , Gd to 9d ; mutton, ditto, 6cl to 8d ; veal, ditto, 6d to Sa; pork, per lb, Os Oct to Os 8d ; salmon, per lb, is Oct to Os Od; rabbits, each, Od to Od ; tallow, per stone, 5s 9d to Os ed; potatoes, per p ec k, 16d to Os 0(1; butter , per lb, 9d to 10d ; eggs, per doz, Os 8d to Os 9d ; hens, per pair, 3s Od 3s 6d ; chickens, ditt o , O s Od t o 3s Od; ducks, ditto, 2s u to 3s 01 ; du c kli ngs , d i tt o, 2 s 6d to Os Od ; turkey"'4s to 5s 0.1 to 5s Oct ; geese , ditt o, 3s Oct to 4s Od ; butter for exportation (present care), per cwt, 84s to Oos O d; ditto (summer cured), OOs to Oos Od ' • eggs, wholesale Vic," per dozen, scl to sid ; 41b loaf, 9d ; 21b loaf, 4id • 1 ) ",". , fine small, Os Oct t o O s Od ; pork, arge, Os Oct t o Os 0" lamb, per qr., 6s to 7s 6d ; cheese, per imperial steW , 5s 6d to 7s. COAL MARK, Prices of Coal per ton at tl 8. d., Bate's West Hartley 18 Oj Burnhope l5 q Chester Main 17 6' Holywell. Howard's West Hartley Netherton 19 61 North Percy Hartley lB 6 1 Redheugh Main l6 01 Tauficld Moor l7 01 Tanfield Moor Butes. l7 3r South Tanfield 16 6 West Pelton l6 0, Walker Primrose l5 6 Wylam l9 61 Wallsend, Harton lB 9 Hilda 18 New Whitworth Hadley .18 6 Wharueliffe lB 6 Eden Main Q 0 0 Bell ... 19 6 .ET.—JULY 15. he closo of the market. Wallsend, &c. (I. !Belmont 19 3 6 Braddyll 2O 0 Hetton 2l Haswell 21 . iLambton . 20 6 6 Lumley 19 !Pensher 19 3 a Plummer Richmund l9 " 20 ! Russell's Hetton South Hetton 2 0 6 Cassop l9 ; Hetton Hartlepool 2O 0 Heugh Hall . 19 i ; West Kelloe 19 South Kelloe 19 ~. Tees 2l 19 Thornley 0 Whitworth lB 0 Derwentwater H ar tl e y. .- 0 Cares Merthyr , 26 SEABORNE MAILS. (N signifies that the mails ar e sent f rom the General Post ofilli by the night—and M by the morning —despatch.)