The Sun. — London, England, 1831-10-04 00:00:00

C (e CONTRACTS FOR PEAS, OATMEAL, ErTTER, AND CHEESE. THVICTUALLING -OFFICE, SEPT. 27, 1881 ' . E Commissioners for Victualling I-1 , :: Majesty's Navy, WE D &c. do hereby give notice, that ill be NESDAY, the sth day of October next, they ready to receive Tenders in writing (sealed up), and . treat rt for the supply of the following Articles, to be delivered into his Majesty's Victualling Stores at Deptford, viz. : pEAs A .. ..... .... Quantity. Period of delivery. 13UTTER .. ............ 60 . 1:ons 20th October next, and 0 ATINI AL : ............... 600 Quarters 0 le-half of each by the the remainder by the CHEESE .................. ri Tons on sth of Nov. following Samples of the p irt the Pe as and Oatmeal must be produced by y end ' to the and the Conditions of the Contracts may be seen at this Office. Eac delih Tender and b must Specify the price in w or d s a t l eng th, and e vered before One o'clock on th e d a y a pp o i n t e d, his the Person who makes the Tender, or some Person on Person must attend to answer when called for. M. WALLER CLIFTON. AIINERAL SUCCEDANEUM FOR FILLING DE CAVE") : 1 - D iSETH, without Heat or Pressure, and IN /C„,2—.ltOD ARTIFICIAL TEETH, without go N 8 1 z jiilai‘tuirAes. LLAN and SON, Sur sTßEE,,,geon Dentists, No. 32, GREAT RUSSELL -,;aItIrIO.OOMSBURY, grateful for the high and ethletinsive Patronage which has so eminently distinguished met r Professional exertions since their arrival in the British PubrlilePTis' respectfully announce to their Friends and the . CAyED'n general, that they still continue to restoreDE SUCeE TEETH, with their celebrated MINERAL Fa tuft y DANEUM, so universally recommended by the Te th o f London and Pori. The operation of Filling Pai; '' Pelf( irmed in a few seconds, '. without the slightest T.E.i,,at, or pressure. They also FASTEN LOOSE wi lo ' l , ll, in a manner singularly efficacious, and SUPPLY INClthsve-°' PARTIAL SETS of TEETH formed of s the ORRODIBLE MINERAL or of Natural 'tte:riptso, 'without WIRE or other LIGATURES— uaran tati4g ansWer every purpose for Articulating and g Alasti- Th, D . , Ceuful!.4Ctlity are respectfully invited to witness the suc -I,i. t resul t of the Mineral Succedaneum. *Loll „ Doe of the above firm may be consulted for a sttee,PePo,l, on Monday s and Thursdays at No. 31, Neliv nettaliattliriningharn alternate days at No. 21, Ce ,.........et, Leamington S a. -\_________ ______ p No. 12,188 kers, and rich proprietors. He had not fished for these petitions. They hail been spontaneously put into his hands, and he felt honoured by the confidence of the peti tioners. He next presented a petition from the borough of Southwark (as we understood) to the same effect, signed by 3,270 of the inhabitants. The next petition was from the mayor, aldermen, bailiffs, and inhabitants of the town of Derby. His Royal Highness presented peti tions to the same effect from the Ward of Cheap, the Ward of Farringdon Within, in the city of London ; from Ham mersmith, signed by 500 persons ; from Ludlow, more numerously signed than their former petition ; from Pen zance, in Cornwall ; and from Gospeton, and other places in the county of Lincoln. The Earl of ELDON had great satisfaction in present ing three petitions against the Reform Bill, although their Lordships ought not to be prevented by petitions from doing their duty. The first petition was from Bridge water, the second from Weymouth, and the third was from the Clergy, M igistrates, and other inhabitants of Norwich, signed by 13,500 persons. Lord DARTMOUTH (as we understood) asked whe ther he heard right, when he understood that the Noble and Learned Earl stated that the Norwich petition was signed by 13,500 persons? The Earl of ELDON sail that it had been presented to him as such, and that he was no further answerable. Lord DARTMOUTH then presented a petition from the city of Norwich in favour of the Reform Bill, signed by 11,570 persons. The LOND CHANCELLOR stated that he had a great number of petitions—about eighty in all—to present, in favour of the Reform Bill. He trusted that the peti tioners would not take it as any mark of disrespect if he only read the names of the petitions, in order to save the time of the House. The first was from the great trading and manufacturing town of Ha lifax, in Yorkshire, the capital of a large and most im portant district of that county. It was signed by 12,500 persons. That town had no shadow of representation as it now stood. lie had petitions from a great many other town:, and was ready to join issue with his Noble and Learned Friend as to the opinion of the people on this great question. If some few were opposed to the measure, the number was very small, and scarcely per ceptible in the mass which was in its favour. His Lord ship then presented petitions in favour of the Reform Bill from Belfast, signed by 3,500 persons ; from Preston, signed by 2,360, and which would have been signed by more if the present petitioners had not been anxious that the petition should be presented before the question was disposed of; front Kirkintullech, from Cumbernauld, front Kendal, front Tiverton, from Rye, from St. Leo nard's, Shoreditch, from Glasgow, from Aberdour, front Kelso, from Leith, from Newton Stewart, from St. Mary's, Islington, from Paisley, and several incorporations of Glasgow, from Aberdeen, and from various places in the counties of York, Leicester, and Perth, in all about 45 petitions. He postponed the presentation of the re mainder till another opportunity. Earl GREY presented a petition in favour of the Re form Bill from the merchants, bankers, and traders of the city of London, and stated that lie was instructed to say, that the sentiments of that important body were now as favourable to the Reform Bill as they had been at any period since the Bill was introduced. He had a mass of petitions to the same effect to present, and he hail also, like his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, to re quest that the petitioners wou!d not think it disrespectful to them if he read only the names. These numerous pe titions contained the spontaneously-expressed sentiments of the great mass of the cotninunLy, and afforded the strongest proof of- their_ ardent wishes for the pssisng of the and also an undoubted indication that their zeal in its fa your had not abated. The Learned Lord opposite had re marked that their Lordships ought not to be prevented by petitions from doing their duty. He agreed that their Lordships ought conscientiously to do their duty ; but the petitions of such a vast majority of the com munity were entitled to respect, and ought to have much weight with their Lordships, when they came to con sider what was their duty. The petitions showed clearly what was the feeling and dispositi..n of the great bulk of the community of all classes in regard to this measure, and he apprehended that there must be some mistake as to the numbers said to have signet! the Noble and Learned Earl's Norwich petition. His Lordship then presented a petition in favour of the Bill from the town of Manches ter, signed by 33,110 persons, and all these signatures were affixed in the course of five days. In March last a petition to the same effect had been got up at the place, which was signed by 21,000 in nine days, so that this petition was a proof that the zeal for the Reform B II had not abated in that town. His Lordship then pre sented petitions to the same effect from Devonport, signed by 2,000 persons; from the Northern Political Union, signed in a short time by 30,000 persons ; from Glas gow, signed by 45,000 persons; and from various places in the counties of Kent and Cornwall, numsrously signed. There was a petition also from the county of Kent, agreed to at a meeting of that county, and there were only twelve dissentients out of a meeting of three or four thousand people. Tile meeting would have 'been much more numerously attended if it had not taken place dining the hop-gathering season ; a circumstance which prevented many of the fanners from attending. There was no intemperance of expression in these peti tions, but all were expressive of a warns and ardent wish for the passing of the Bill. His Lordship presented petitions to the same effect from the county of Mont gomery, signed by 7,000 persons ; front South Shields, from Berwick, from Blackburn, from St. Margaret's and St. John's, Westminster, from Newcastle-upon Tyne, &c. The Earl of RADNOR presented a petition to the same effect from the ward of Bread-street, in the city of London. The petitioners stated that great inconvenience bad resulted from the delay which had taken place in passing this measure, and earnestly desired that it might be passed with as little additional delay as possible. The petition was signed by nine-tenths of the inhabitants of the Ward, and would have been signed by more if there had been time. Ail these petitions were laid on the table. LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 4, 1831. 11VIPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 4 ° USE OP LORDS, , At a n , leading ',? th e it ea r , Y hour this afternoon every avenue . OCTOBER 3. 4 'eeri t i —0055 of Lords was thronged with hear th°e"ideeri:t enda others wishing to obtain adiniss:soen oftc persons having eonat abi _ . upon the Reform Bill ; a strong otd ers of " Were Placed • ter A• Le tr t• Westminster, to pre b. , in the various passages ut p u o ler the - ve ord er , la, Constable of of eermid , and to keep a free passage for Members, a task Were 0 'ssion was re t"rds "able difhealty, and when the doors of the House of raentiout vperied tile rush to gain adtni eXcelient e are happy the Pbbli e r, accoranaodations which have been made for ri, p ress in bearing our testimony to t the ',tie Al from the. eon 41° ' s of CL EVELAND presented petitions i shire, - - nt Y. °r in Shrop- Durhatn, and from 'Wellington, from tilo favour of petition . . , B f d the following P e oral ; an I.° TH e t• i t . , is " of St. Mar -le-Strand : I ltiejeuAT "tcllll' 110N04A131,F. THE LORDS, S A P S. 817:411L1',‘AND TEMPORAL IN PARLIA MEN T TIo. FD A\l) trU MBLE PETITION OF THE INIL , -AN- 1 , ti PARISH Of ST „ OUBEHOLDERS OF THE COUNTY OF Ali , lARY-LF-MTIOAND, IN THE , STER IN/ I)I,I',„ESEX- A ND LIBERTY OF WESTMIN 81 , THEIR fie MEETING DULY CONVENED OF-41' CHU • , DENS THIS 3(Yrn DAY 81 ,,,,,, , CM\ AR DENS, tOkSyrl, ~'• ' }-MBErt Ig3l. satisfied v r .Z' a ltet;„;;•hat your Petitioners have long been l in Parliament T ri eresc a - ,; . t ot the re presentation of the peep e fed at b ein 0 their happiness and prre . perity. ar us kinds of b Nighi,4 latl6useh°l4erst engage : d 'n ' class of society, and essr, it ern r TPUCh with the middle c a . ~. . ey have iter ‘ .; . , r Y h art PoYtng numbers of working pe rv _y g tn ii 'and have cib het",Wi qie gi.:,i.ati! o pportunities of ob s se of , persons for such a re i ,,,,:n iti 1,11/g desire of these classes the people to return as g ti atin e Nativ es ' n nent as would enable to them to be the best t h ell ours"lrnen who should appear . . th t , at y-Y.on the business of the natio • the fear that 1.,,, 2.. 5 0 4,4 Aetitioners could not but entertain would be de yi",,Tabritii t i e p lj, arid now indispensable. measure have been ad o ge ollsly li ne had gone by when it could 'leo ''' Petit'ati°Dted• the or &atio., thislon were therefore highly gratified with h nctiou _ .1 8 !vi!' Of present It • t • s that thei , with the. _ e ie.. sep.Thte i)estY would ' inis cr R fr. , w tich would b 1 . d Zttre,,,sed;.)o lieo p le, a ( rd 'se th:y in e o ublic meeting Kinggood for his hi our petii,!oftil subjects. Bill for amend- Yor_rieasZreDruelsr are fully convinced that the 13111 is a wise "ver :I',ild wiii:tf;n. of . the People i' the i m ar eans of promoting itir . i:A r t?le pur`paisteuecome a law, he kop, t4l,.l:°ners are also fully persuaded that if the Bill be re ; I,:enibieost direful consequences will ensue—consequence W olil t4 Pttiti tha4 any ever before witnessed in this cuht. ho t ‘ l v l. not wilpers have property, of various kinds, which theywould opiZow iii . illingly r'°,BlY Place in Jeopardy, and lives which they.: and ( t gisguisisk ; but they cannot conceal from themselves, 4 ° , 1 tons that ti e frn tli. Your Lordships, their deliberately funned l uished ; r oan. at shot4cei ttlitatter has proceeded toofar to la i c , r , t....i n ? ,,, every l ' rc 4e 4 rt l , r a ci t (try and %1 b,,,e,tiVetted by your : H and o above all the ene,aysetitiohnves of thel4her e ra e n n ks ‘t of society. fears, very ti ll . ~iy.ent__!l-2,1,1ave been alarmed with ofrepor,tsis.. th'e i ps will tortil.Av4tytte':-.(iiwee‘d,er that Satisfiedorhdspip.sur Llansir eleetli (4 ,Pie e p e li ' l, if Yoll'r I'Lliclisatll be COnyinced that . asna ll4,4"‘er4i'c a"8, mod Lordships by the Bill to exercise . the ~ kith ; -Ur 14.'1 are desst-diait it should be the law Hof' i - rfi r( tl 1,3;1'5, thWtlrers do, therefore, most solemnly , as n st e i s r de. to•ensearrnrlajorit,,leY have no doubt that it is very i earnestly d t c o a but by an t hin i Pill„Vit ' y , hyonfy of male ersons i al i l o i i i i i . e , that this is not Nutt r''''' o f 1 1T e the () e 1 b 11 °l ?t i i rra tic t vain 'desire for smitieme -I,..hat oth.elii,_a restless uesire for change; but that itisl 0 0 th , v . iiiith-yt,Ot eonsideration, and a thorough conviction .y ° Yen, I° leht „,,the Passing loin can save the .i.,,,e,. i _ IN, raci)t ~,.Trriotion, in which our admirably-con t 1 41ii the ttl.'etitiorZl-4d Probabl be destroyed. ) t, kill hewers deprecate all violent changes, conceivii r if in tli t a i t i , thp, , ,irTj e lit fo4 l aW, it will tend to preserve the Gfn o 'C wn 'l t and i'art?pl Of tbl;r?erve the prerogatives of the will maintain, littleat ~ s Of , L , C Peers , whilst it restores, and wil i l iy p i ra lt v, ii 1 detour 44.-',,ls,eople • they therefore must humbly . h as ellNsYeas 0,...,3,Zip5,,wnil tie pleased to pass e Bill Honour , sistent with the forms of your. 1•44 4 t (Sign , holders.) , 041 b ,A3Nbocal by the inhabitant house the petition lt " th at 441 40 , . b ERRY, in reference to thtit thereeont,s: in that though there were many persons satisfied 4 eewn w„, i favour of Reform, yet he was d to so g . a INA tball Y who were strongly oppose signed 4 AI) '"e ' NoR frewshire, , tl i „ Y 1,,, resented petitions from Ren r . p 4 ,- aril,, f carious 1 4 l ee st all • ' I 9,000 persons, and from tif,,,„'• Ao L , i , 'n favour of the Reform Bill, 'curl 114011. P. presented petitions to the same toil t tl,r4 ell; 5 triber of otvts : in Devonshire. 1.. Y '4Devon,Pollb presented a similar petition from the 11 ''''l LLB a ' re d - 5 turlt 6 , e to at a county meeting. i oth. so g al, eodeti t h at aUdressed the House at some _en, thi m 'Med t from the thin attendance at the meet -4 re,, ‘i Plil h: a ' all! considering the state Of the public 11" 0 4 i, th".9l4”stion a short time ago, there had been Ile , t :, 1) (14, 0 ; 1 efinnty. a ` t ri t,, e haIItiICHAIOND asked the Noble Lord, as t , to,,in4,,lginst ti,been re-ution, whether he had go near) ROLL L ' Hill ? I), **-4 4 1 att i e , rt. • I cries of Lear, Paged t ie k n ,,,.... • Mil y not—(Loud cr .. and ~,,•,,0 th e bi li 'w 4 great part of the country was 0 1' hod to ~, ' aa d he should do his dutY fearlessly' Th rl :t. + 1 ; 4 (1 to the i ntimidation that had been fr o , 4 s.. tit,ke f of fi le teffieiri, °. 1‘10111•01.1( presented a 1 Fet.tion ord, tin, sl gked 1, . favour Y 19,135 persons, in the "bl Ps t a" °b"erved i their e li on 0 pasi the ..„.. that he would entreat 4 4 " e t whet, ‘,..ut1l for the sake of the character of 1 1l fk t , 4 13',Fteas.a mll)jeet of great importance. t her e ( lur of , , ""lIMP, in - • ere n , ,e o , . • Presenting several petitions b t ilti o ,, 3, i n ,-,, , s. , said the people had discovered that i) ear, ) a l /t . ,.. 0 `.le Bill now before t) House that Consti ,i, J 1 till W h ich , Le . _ . _ itt. t e loy st . ° ''Y we re t hey so much desired.—(Hear, of ge Ito ;ttiporta,,,_ discuss at the c onitnencement of one dee p! t 4 o sa, . sild h'4e‘ oeirsietussions that ever had come before Th,„ eori,; (l ,, , re,.lted Noble Lords to pause anal j r , f 4140 . i the 'ulipet before they voted against it. 4votir Itila °f HASTI r ' e .. The °1 R e f N GS presented several petitions orrn, for e } buk ar, e of suss li r i 1 ", 1, 4 , 1 , EX presented a petition from the p,.40.,_'t0l ,e, rs, and other inhabitants of the city 11i,,,"'N handf. its Vieitlity, to the number of 25,74.0 15,,,,, ''''"llr of the Reform Bill. Iris Royal `'itle 1 stated that the , 110 ( t o „, . oe whole of those signatures were o,,yP,rsort 141;1°er pietitions in the short space of five days ; • I`l, 'n" Leen • 6 years of age had signed it, nor had reet.ve Arars,uis 'fl'erted twice over. Li,' I. °f LONDONDERRY stated, that be had ~...l ' Alf , i , ner o „, , ' t h ." . Da ', -- t o , 1 • , signing (. . u Tet from a person, k ti ..: 4,g,,,,tua, vison, representing that at least 1733 send !I t t , ) a _ d ti were factious ---(A laugh)--he meant ~L. of th " that 11,, be:iew Ithat five to . -, sf t, em were , ri g h t . the ,teen..ac of to.F.,eris. /le conld pot pledge him for tri,nti,w'"..Y t tins statement, hut 11. , thought it fo r I. e bok e r i It ' , p r „ , 4, st °' SUSS EXfr • ill , ate r „ nt an e cou , d not be answerable v4 eh "Y saY thaty more than the Noble Marquis. He lie not e fo r foe the ene the two DI Noble for Bristol had tire, t r Pres, t ! l ,ii respectability of the petitioners. v ro tt , to their Lordships a 1 Ct . • Tried b a t neetin g o f t l • I • , 1 e i ion to the same 4,ti.. Y th e e h • le inhabitants at Birmingham, t i „, ... airman in the natne of the • This perf ee :: was numer.,,_,, _ meeting. dpi ti netptiZnlY arid. respeetably signed, but was .1 'Rlcial urii__n, . a petition from the Birmingham imp , Th,B°or . inch would be presented to their Lord- This petition was signed b y the merchants, ban- Some other Noble Lords were coming forward with pe titions, when there arose a call for the Order of the Day, as it was past six o'clock. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE hoped that the rule of limiting the time for presenting petitions to six o'clock would not be acted upon to-morrow. Time ought to be allowed for the presentation of every petition which had been sent to that House before their Lordships came to de.. eide on the momentous question now before them. There ought to be, no limitation to the time for presenting peti tions, and all ought to be presented before they came to 4 division. The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed with his Noble Friend that all the petitions ought to be presented before they came to a vote ; but his Noble Friend was mistaken if he thotudtt that any rule had been laid down. It was merely a 'auggestion that petitions should be taken from four to six ; but if there should be a pressure, of course a different arrangement might be made and a longer time nken. No doubt all the petitions ought to be received before they came to a vote : but they had the whole week before them. . go on receiving petitions till there were none left. That would be the most regular Parliamentary proceeding. Lord KENYON agreed with the Noble Baron, and thought that in that case all they had to do was to fix the hour at which they would meet.—(Cries of " four o'clock !" and " three o'clock 1 " from different pirts of the House.; He would now more that the House meet at three o'clock. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM suggested that the House should meet at two o'clock, for the presentation of petitions. The LORD CHANCELLOR must object to any ar rangement, the effect of which would be to have the peti tions read without my one to listen to them, and tL-ri to have them shoved under the table, or subsequently into a basket, without anybody knowing anything' about them this, if their Lordships were to sit at two o'clock, would be the erect—there would, perhaps, he only four or five Peers present—such as had petitions ; and tile remainder of their Lordships would not come to the House till the hour for resuming the debate should have arrived.—( Hear). Th ey had the whole week before them for the debate, and for p ti e le tit r i ez g iv s ing of petitions—for hi s own p art he was read y to sit at any hour, but he would not co nsent to hurr y th e unduly forward that no one should be aware of their having been 'presented. Lord WHARNCLIFFE agreed that there ought to be a full attendance of their Lordships when the petitions were presented. The Marquis of CLEVELAND suggested the receiving of petitions from four till seven. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM had no objection to move that their Lordships should meet at three for the re ceiving of petitions, Lord HOLLAND thought that the general usage of their Lordships would save most time—the best way would be to fix at what hour they would meet, and then first day of that Session ; and I am sure that your Lord.. ships cannot have forgotten the answer that they re ceived, any more than you can have forgotten'the general consternation produced by that answer, when the Noble Duke, then at the head of his Majesty's Government, de clared himself opposed in principle to all Reform what ever—(Hear, hear)—that the present Constitution of the House of Commons was a thing so perfect in itself— (Hear, hear)—a thing so unattainable by human wisdom, that it ought to be unalterable; and that any change, even the slightest, would be productive of danger to the country. The effect of that declaration all your Lord ships must have felt.—(Hear, hear.) It was described by Mr. Drummond, in his address to the electors of Sur rey—a gentleman not, I believe, adverse to the late Ad ministration, and certainly not favourable to the present. Mr. Drummond had stated in that address that that de claration of the Noble Duke showed great ignorance of the public feeling. 'and was calculated to drive the people to despair. A Noble Friend of mine also spoke of it in strong terms, and stated that the dissolution of the late Government, and all the agitation that had ensued, were owing to that imprudent and unfortunate declaration.— (Hear, hear.) Thus far, then, I must stand acquitted with your Lordships, that in proposing the measure which I this night have to propose to your Lordships, I am doing nothing which is not consistent with the prin ciples that I have always maintained ; that I propose it in continuance of that strong conviction which I expressed at a moment when I could not have had the most remote idea of filling the situation which I now so unworthily hold; and that it has always been my uniform con viction that this measure ought no longer to be delayed. What followed is well known to your Lordships. I was called on most unexpectedly by my Sovereign to form an Administration. On what principle was I to form it?— (Hear, hear.) On that of my predecessor—hoping to carry on the same system, but with greater success ? My Lords, I could have no such presumptuous hope or expec tation. If that had been possible, there would have been no reason or motive for their removal. The question, then, simply came to this—that they were to go on main taining the same system as heretofore, or that those who succeeded them were to act on a principle more congenial to the general feelings of the country.—(Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances I certainly did state to my So. vereign, as a condition for my accepting office, that I must be allowed to bring forward a measure of Reform as a measure of the Government. That condition was graci ously assented to by my indulgent Master; and though that measure may be dissented from in this House, at least we have the satisfaction of feeling that it has been met by the sanction of the public ; anti I therefore lost no time in preparing, in conjunction with my colleagues, a measure, the result of which is to form the subject of this night's deliberation. So far, then, I hope your Lordships will understand, that I am not chargeable with the introduc tion of an unnecessary measure—that I had grounds for thinking that the state of public feeling absolutely re paired the introduction of the measure, and that it could no longer be delayed with safety. Under these circumstances, I think that it cannot be charged against are as a crime, that I took the earliest opportunity of carrying into effect my design, and of acquitting toy stdf of the pledge which I had given, by bringing for ward a measure, which, if it receives the sanction of this House, will, I must conscientiously believe, prove a measure of peace, tranquillity, and conciliation to the whole country.—(Cheers.) But there is still a further point to which I have to give an answer. It will, nc doubt, be slid, grant that there is a general feeling in favour of Re forin—grant that there is a general admission of the prin ciple (an admission so general that, with the exception of the Noble Duke, I believe that there is not one of the late Administration that does not feel that the measure has been brought to such a crisis that it must be seriously looked at)—grant all this—yet why go the extent of the present measure, which, in the opinion of those who make this observation, is revolutionary in its principle, subver sive in its spirit, and calculated to prove fatal to the Con stitution ? My Lords, I hope that I shall be able to answer that question also; and however easy it may be to declaim about revolution and subversion, I trust that I shall be able to show that there is nothing in the measure that is not founded on the acknowledged principles of the English Constitution—(Cheers) —nothing that is not con sistent with the ancient system of representation—and nothing that may not be adopted with perfect safety to all the existing privileges of the State, and more particularly to that order to which we belong, and which it has been erroneously supposed this measure is intended to attack. —(Hear, hear.) The principle, then, being universally admitted, that something must be done, we naturally come to the question—in what manner it ought to be done ? I imagine that there is not one of your Lordships, from the most diminutive bit-by-hit Reformer up to the Noble Lord opposite, who some time ago took an opportunity of saying that whatever was done on this subject must be vigorotrs and decisive—who will he disposed to deny that it was necessary for us to ask ourselves—in what manner is this Reform to be effected ? Whether it must be by doing as littl e as possible—such as bringing something, that really meant nothing, in the name of Reform , and so affecting to re deem our pledge—or whether it must be by taking the Noble Lord' s pl a n, I was going to say, but plan he never vouch safed. (A laugh.) Shall I then rather say, by taking the Noble Lord's principle of doing something vigorous and eff, ctive ? If so, I would observe, that I think see hav e ( l one that indeed—(Hear, hear, from the Opposi tion)_for the princip l e of our measure is, that it should be effe c tual, and such as to give confidence to the people— (Cheers from the Ministerial side)—at the same time en abling property and intelligence to take their stand in that a e y e s ar o , f which we fair proportion which the improvement of the age appears to requi____re. Th_es,:T,lt,ehe;:rdwoefreprtolmieistewtoo the had our choice. As to taking the tirst-that of a 'bit-by- Wt Reform—that of beeping And breaking it to the hope," —that of introducing a half m easure as a step to future improv e ment at a more distant period—it hail this funda mental of it would have satisfied nobody— (Cheers)--those rez;lity the oppon en t s o f a ll Reform, whothey w tasked in dabout support i ng a system 0; () t; g h whi c h n o one could understand, and which assumed no ma terial shape, would, on finding that the ground had keen taken from under their feet, have been discontented ; while, on the other hand, the people, who were looking fir: a substantial and effective measure ; wo old certainly not have been satisfied ; and thus this' Ministerial measure, instead of giving stiseaction, would be expos& d to the fundamental objection, that it did nothing towards ap peasing that agitation and excitement which Lad so alaratingly prevailed. Looking, then, at the question in this point of view, it would utterly have faile4 a;,1 . 4 ne cessarily came to the conelaisiota that the tohst prudent, the m ost s'afa meal:tare that i could propose would be a hold one _(Hear, hear)—and this the rather, because I felt that, looking to the safety of the country, which was the true policy, I could introduce sun a measure as would satisfy the general desire of the people, on reasonable terms, with out going from the position on which I was determired stand —that of defending t h e true nr i nc i p i es tic the 'Cori hear,; ;t Was - nn Principle, then, that 4 yc`olleagu es cons id ere d t h e plan of Reform ; s an 'il and on on looking at the various causes that had given rise to the complaints of the people on this subject, it was im possible not to find our attention attracted to the aomina tion boroughs, as they are called. against these the pub lie has long b een directed, and, I think, With good interest, were sufficient to outweigh the Votes of an ii portion o f the inhabitants of - this country, ii orhie n ta; no gCl;etntsoe; 'foras long as t h ese b orou g hs, i n wh i ch the public be no matter of surprise he'ar the eciamation that it vr"tiqi bF- 1 09;tei to hatHe no representation at all than suffer so gross an abuse to continue. And is it unna tural that the peopl e should have imbibed a disgust for that when w e come to consider what is the Cltinc't'etriveofß)ern' those boroughs ? The claim set ne for them • without eoo titletn % t . h e reotfepdaer view i s that of sending Members to' the of' boinriatans he leas ny eei ttac,,t though t,,:t,rehcs. t p: h e e gwr y et,:r xri e .:: : l •e iib6 t n u ehnf r ia n ev,fi e at d t: iire;',=nae to the 'CGarcter of being the t t(vu t ' ,i e rin . c, a i iiud t gu i h ei:aa i n : l e ra u s p ti, t ahi r who e e t . i Crest nsulting wh o dispose of it 'fox' their (into par they are the nominees of Peers, or of other wealthy • o f the conimunity. These are the feelings that p;T:vail a mong the people, and how it is a - a - a:shale to convert t h e m into those of anection and conciliation towards he Government or the Constitution, without rernov ing those boroughs, I must confess I am not able tc see . - Is it, again I ask, to be wondered at that the people should feel dissatisfied, when they recollect the i scenes that take place at each election, the barefaced cor- The LORD CHANCELLOR put the question ; but it appe ring that the House was alre . ady to meet at eleven o'clock for appeals, the sense of the House was not taken. Earl GREY thought that four would be found to be early enough ; hut if an earlier hour were wished for, he should not object. The Earl of ABINGDON said that lie had petitions to present, and he should be at the House at three o'clock to present them. The conversation here dropped, without any hour being fixed. . . "• .-1 ,1_,.. ) , i ---- . A ., ,. ~ / ' ~. ' L , - - 7 :, .# I 4C. -.. ' ... 1r" . 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' ‘:\"'"/Itn .., .4___,__..._,,„ P ' iil I , ' FL U \ \ , P 0 . ; . ,.- ' c , :.1) , , 1 ~ - - IT_LA C O p r ff .rY t ti ' e a s p e. • che r iet r (11 ,3 ,,„' et r top P- ' . 00 0 DI „ t it r; nd I vrAt c ale( ' l e• .()1} 1 4. 1fr gio 4 'o $ 0 ° ( 0 ) 0 4 1 9 6 41' 0 4 6 $lO b 4eo ,6 019' 4 re . 0 0 1 „JO pd; Iri' f '• o, )10T, I(e n e rOD'r cl ,l° l' 6. 6 0 t" 3. )2 t3.--bef• ' „ 6J , • r> l3 ''to D a ' o/d. t „, 4 ...0ath )1.2''.13e" co' Too' 0 5,1 51 031 . 0 644 od , ro. e wtor'' 4fe c s trec ., , jot, • P` l i wrsPigtl t ,,i , , r f a c Oi„ll, Ye °( • tile. e T s 'l'll 'rate d ) !Tl l )1, J° ral ide E s q. °3 foi .f rri, • 3 ,-- 1 ^ tG, A T THE REFORM BILL. Earl GREY then rose for the purpose of moving the order of the day for the second reading of the Reform Bill ; and the House, which, during the discussion as to the future hour of proceeding with the petitions, had been in some confusion, almost instantaneously subsided into the profoundest attention and silence. The Noble Earl , paused a minute before he commenced, and then pro ceeded to address their Lordships in nearly the following words :—My Lords, in the course of a Ling political life, now extended.—[The Noble Earl here again paused, evidently overcome by emotion at the task that had de volved upon him for performance, and several Noble Lords perceiving his momentary incapacity to proceed, exclaimed, ' Sit down !—Sit down !" The Noble Earl, adopting the suggestion, resumed his seat for a minute, and then again rising and advancing to the table to address their Lordships, he was received with cheers from both sides of the House.] My Lords, in a long political life, which has now extended over nearly half a century, it has often been my lot to propose to this House and to the other House of Parliament—in moments of great diffi culty—in seasons of great political contest and violence— many questions of the most vital importance to the poli tical interests of this country, as well as to the general well-doing of Europe. If at such times—under such circumstances—and with such interests at st ike, I have felt that awe and trepidation which the importance of those occasions must have naturally inspired, and which were no more than becoming to me, speak. ing as I did, conscious of my own inferiority, in the presence of some of the greatest men this country has ever produced, and sensible of the important duty which I had to discharge—if, 1 say, on such occasions as those I felt awed, yet still were those sensations nothing in the com parison to the feelings with which I am affected at the present moment; for I ant about to propose for your Lordships' consideration a question involving the dearest interests of the country—a question for bringing forward which I more than any other individual am personally responsible—a question which has been designated as destructive of the Constitution, as revolutionary in its spirit and principle, and as tending to produce general confusion and misgovernment throughout the country.— Your Lordships will feel the weight of these charges against which it is necessary that I should vindicate myself. My own belief is that the measure which I am about to lay before your Lordships is one of peace, prosperity, and con cord--(Cheers.) I observe that on this question de pends, on the one hand, the peace, prosperity, and concord of the country ; and, on the other, the continuance of a state of political disaffection, which threatens all those con sequences that must arise when ill-feeling is engendered in the people towards the Government of a country.— (Hear, hear.) I have already stated that I, more than any other individual, am personally responsible for this measure ; and it is therefore necessary, in the first place, that I should set myself right with your Lordships on this point. My opinion on this question of Parlia mentary Reform is well known to such of your Lordships as have done me the honour to observe tle course of my political conduct. I have uniformly supported the prin ciple of Reform. I voted, soon after my introduction into Parliament, in the year 1786, for questions of that de scription. I voted with Mr. Pitt for the shortening of Parliaments. I voted for a measure of Reform introduced by Mr. Flood at the commencement of the revolution, and before the beginning of that war which ied to such dis astrous consequences. I myself, on two different occa sions, brought forward a proposition of this nature, be lieving, as I then did, that some change in the representa tion of the people was necessary to give new vigour to the Constitution, and to make the House of Cotnmons in fact what it professed to be in theory—a full, free, and efficient representation of the people.—(Cheers.) I stand, there fore, now before your Lordships the advocate of princi ples, from which I have never swerved. But it is not enough that a public man, pretending to any claim to the character of a Statesman, should be able to prove that he has been consistent in what he has done—that what he has proposed is in conformity with opinions long established in his mind, and that it is from a conviction forced upon him through all the changes and chances of a long poli tical career, that he brings forward some measure of this description. He has a still further duty to per form. He has to prove that he has not forced into notice even a beneficial opinion, either rashly or at an inopportune season, but that he has done it under a sincere conviction that it is essential to the well-being of the country, and that it could not be longer delayed with safety, if it was his object to make it a measure that should unite in affection towards the Government and the Consti tution a loyal and confiding people.—(Cheers.) To show what my course of conduct on this subject has been, a short detail only will be necessary. Your Lordships can not have forgotten what the state of the country was at the commencement of the last Session of Parliament.— (Hear.) Your Lordships cannot have forgotten the ge neral doubt and anxiety that prevailed throughout the corn_ munity—that society was almost in a state of disorganiza tion—that tumult had taken place in the manufacturing districts—that the influence of certiiin Political Unions, which had grown out of the discontent of the people, was spreading in every direction—that there was the most alarming insurrection prevalent in the southern counties, extending almost to the very gates of the metropolis. Neither can your Lordships have forgotten how that situa tion of fear and destruction was exemplified by the remark able circumstance of the then Ministers thinking it to be their duty to counsel his Majesty not to expose them to the danger which must ensue—a danger which I most sincerely believe was groundless and unreal—front paying that visit to the city which it has been usual for the Mo narchs of this country, shortly after their accession, to pay to the great, loyal, and opulent city of this empire. These things must be fresh in the minds of your Lord-hips; and you must also recollect in how great a degree, at that very - time, prevailed the desire for the adoption of some measure of Parliamentary Reform, which waded still more to agitate the feelings of the country, anti recurred to men's minds more strongly than ever. My Lords, that was the revival of a question which had at times slum bered, but had never been extinct during a period of eighty years—(Hear)—that was a question which had always agitated the country; more especially in times of difficulty, by which the necessity of its settlement was the more clearly evinced.--(Hear.) That measure, then, had begun to be felt as so necessary, that svhen I - arrived in town at that Period, I found many, on whose opinions I most re lied—who had never, indeed, dissented from Parliamen tary Reform, but who could not previously have bsen reckoned among its most energetic and sanguine supporters s s --I found, I say, many such as these convinced that the time had at length arrived when that ques'tion most he en tertained, with the desire and intention of bringing it to a close. This was my conviction also—(Hear, hear) — and your Lordships will not forget that on the first day of that Session, i took an opportunity of diScussing the ge neral state of the country, in answer to a Noble Earl whom I do not now see in his place; and who, after describing t e e n , n t a p r t .i s R e e i f t : the situation of the country, had proceeded to insist on the necessity of strong measures—such as arming and others. I then stated—using the familiar illustration of putting one's House in order for the coming storm—that Parlia mentary the best security that could be de vised, as security Was wanted ; and it was the cheapest defence the Government could adopt ; that it was the most certain shield that could be held out against any foreign or domestic—(Cheers) —that Refor m in the representation'of the Comunins' House of Parliament, with which the people were no longer satis• fled, and without Which there could be no reasonable hopes of reconciling them to the measures of Government, would be all tie things that were wanted, and would pro-' duce more safety than any other scheme that could be de veloped. These were the things that I stated on the , PRICE 7D. ruption that is exhibited on all sides, the open sale of seats, the return of Members in the open face of day, under the nomination of the proprietors of boroughs, while the people look on and see that which all writers on the Con stitution, all eminent English lawyers have stated to be incompatatible with the rights of representation, daily made the subject of profit to nominees, in defiance both of justice and of law ? On these grounds, therefore, we proceeded to consider what boroughs ought to be abolished, and in so doing we found that many were so situated as to he incapable, under any circumstances, of possessing the elective franchise, it being impossible to extend the con stituency in those boroughs that only possessed the name and ancient site of places which formerly sent representa tives to Parliament. Under these circumstances, we thought that they could only be considered as gangrenes. which defied all cure hut that of excision ; and we, there fore, determined to disfranchise entirely the boroughs men tioned in schedule A, taking as our criterion a certain rate of population, as found in the census of 1821—not that we supposed that there was any particular virtue in the number we selected, but because it enabled us to draw what might be deemed a fair and impartial line, and help us to conclude what boroughs existed into which it was impossible to diffuse a new or vigorous constituency. These boroughs, therefore, we determined to propose to Parliament to abolish altogether. There then presented itself toour notice another class of boroughs, having a higher population, and which we thought might be allowed, to a certain extent, to return their franchise, by the admission of regulations, which will be found in the Bill, for the pur pose of raising their constituency, after depriving each borough of this class, of one of its Members. I know that it will be alleged against this measure that there ar, anomalies in this Bill ; and I admit that if it was altoge ther new scheme such an accusation would be a just one ; but still it certainly does appear to be a little incon sistent that such a change should be urged by those who think that the measure is already too extensive—(Hear, hear)—more especially after I am fain to admit that this second class of boroughs has boen retained for the purpose of conciliating those who are most ready to deprecate too extensive a change ; but, at all events, it will be well for your Lordships to consider that these anomalies could only be remediable by a general division of the population and the counties into districts, and so establishing a more equable partition. The framers of the Bill then proceeded with the disfranchisement of the boroughs contained i n schedule A, and to limit those contained in schedule B t , the return of one Member each. The extent, then, to which the House of Commons was reduced by the dis franchisement of the boroughs in the first class, was 111 ; those in Vie second class amounted to 41, and with tao taken from the borough of Weymouth, made the total number t .ken from the House of Commons 154. That having been done--the work of disfranchisement having been to that extent completed—the next step to be taker was, to see what means were necessary and practicable fo, the purpose of supplying the deficiency in the numbers of the House of Commons whic!, those proposed disfranchise ments had created. The Bill, with those disfranchising clauses, was proposed to the House of Commons, and by that House adopted, and also clauses were adopted for the purpose of bringing back the numbers of the representa tive portion of the Legislature to pretty near the satin amount, in point of numbers, that it had previously been. Sixty-five new Members were given to counties, twenty four additional Members were given to the the House as re presentatives for twelve large towns not before sending Members to the House, and which, under the Bill now before the House, are each to have Members ; and then there are twenty-eight towns with one Member each ad ditionil, which, with the Member left to Weymouth, make 118, which, taken from 154, leave a remainder 01 36, being the number which the House of Commons wa to lose. Having thus removed the rotten portion of the Constitution, our next duty was to consider how we should beat impart fresh health and vigour to the whole body of the Constitution—having removed the rotten and decayed branches, our object was to ascertain how we should best infuse new vigour and freshness to the parent stern and the remaining branches, so that fair fruit should be borne, and permanent health and energy established. ‘. Inutilisque false ramos amputans Feliciores inserit." Your Lordships will see that these arrangements consti tute the plan upon which we now propose to take the sense of this branch of the Legislature ; and I hesitate not to say that it will not only be unattended witl, danger, but that it will effect the best purposes of permanent security. This plan, I hope, will obtain the consent of your Lordships. Your Lordships will further see that in counties, all the present rights of voting are re served—that all freeholders in counties remain precisely as they were—that every man in possession of a freehold retains his right of voting ; but rie franchise can be com municated with a freehold Inc life, unless it be of the value of ten pounds. 'thus, then, will that manufacture of votes be prevented, whi c h i n pract i ce worked so mis chievously. To those right s so a l ready existent or ere• tl o i f e t hreiglh.atl value of of f oti t n e g n dill, we cus p to r( m )p a o r s y e to ten a u d i d •e - s aced pounds—to lessees for s i x t y years, acid to other lessees, as from b c y op t y h l e ol ß d the printed Bill will toore particularly exhibit to Noble Lords. In this part of the arrangemot I have now to call your Lordships' attention to a clause which was in troduced into the Hill during its passage through the other houso—it was nut recommended by any one eon• nected with his Majesty's Government, yet I nevertheless sincere!y hope that its operation will be beneficial, though I am not without fear that a contrary result ;nay ensue, The privilege of which I speak is tit'at at the right of voting given to persooa heOding lands a a certain value without leaees. It must be obvious to your Lordships, that in this ease there exists a considerable danger that the power given to landed proprietors may be used in a man ner such as it has been in places that I will ns,t name : and if so used, it will probably lead to ; g, - eneral detnand for that regulation formerly treo;io,oed in reference to this subject, but not one word' rospeotio,g which has found its way ioto the pettions reeently presented to this or the other House of Parliatnent—the regulation I allude to is the right of voting by ballot. It is one whli , h,qt not been taken up by petitioners from the kipmec k t Oae tnea sure of Reform was taken by the eesp,ooaible advisers of the Crown as a Gor!nru f ut• measure, and which will probably not l e ries : ailed to again unless the power im- • - hi the ol,use I have just mentioned should be abused in the manlier so recently and so justly censurecL . At all events, this clause in the Bill cannot bat t:toopaniend i it to the adoption of every min in the toer4;.y 6ncerely desires to increae the urivilNeq io(htetwe of the landed At istocrac!,:--w4l; themthis clause ca n b u t f orm an arrmivent Yn i,ayoUr of the measure. But before it was introduced into the Ili.l there was not even a plausible ground for saying that the landed interest was net suf ficiently provided for and protected. Will not the eist;- five additional county Members increase their in4uere and power ? In fact there was no part ct which did not show a tendency rather to, increase than to lessen or destroy that Having thus laid before your outline of the principles of this important., measure, I shill not trouble you with t h ose tletei!s which will more prop-rly form the subject cf tlisztission in the Committee. The object of ',;l.n.ge details chiefly was to guard against escpen.a4 at elections—taking it as a fit= rtrinc:,ple, that the return of Members to the c:oinmens house of Parliament should be free eari onshackled, 'the division of counties is th k -ne - at subject to . which I shall call the attention of the house and that ;,- I .y very briefly, observing as I pass, thai o;B,t,:clivr,sosi ought to form one of the strongest recornitlenfiations of the Bill to that portion of the landed Aristocracy who limit their views to the n?r.. rust' objects of private and personal int!rest, i hikow that this portion of the Bi!1 is open to tltt ok favour ing those combinations and oe: - . -- ?keomises by which parti• cular persons have Lein, enabla'to retin n Members to the other !louse of Al . rhanient ; but my persuasion is, tli,a'c re ectiin and experience of its operation will erizee: its warmest opponents that such will ultimate re sults, and sure I am that i 'c=sins ntbing which ough; to render it tr;ac.9einiable to your Lordships, ilping forth the&tails'of the measure, Not; till, fentt e that if contains fresh provisions fur reg;kleting the polling at elections, and forsse_aring every freedom and facility for eitors. It providi s that the ;acne property shall not yield two votes—that, in .\i - ovo;;,gh, no Man shall vote for the town and the county ; if he be a resident he votes for the town, a non-re „lent for the county, and no iote7r;ediatetenant shall possess a right of voting, neither shall qualifications be derived from the payment of land-tax; and to all at present possessing the right of voting for towns, as freeholders, it is still conti nued, provided they do not live at a greater distance from the place represented than seven miles. This, I need not, Ills=ilt .„ ~-., : x!.. - .:. , k_ VW, - • V I 4!LIT. . - ,,. - 4.4 - 1',, , ?.?", , ,,ta,, , v, -.: / • . - - ,44. ' l4 " '.,'S ' y w h i e ll rent": ll 2" l4 ndant upt will have the beneficial effect of ridding the representation bringing iinndgt diminishing tnit:hyinogur non-resident tLhe6rje y sx o li t Pe e i 7a c' t e o the poll; and further, it of the interference of strangers ; and each place may in future be expected to send to Parliament persons connected and acquainted, and, as it were, identified with their local interests. In the qualification of those who vote front houses, it will be required that they show a previous p is ion of them the twelve months preceding—that they value, or paying an annual rent of that amount. If lie qualifies on rent he must have paid up all arrears; if on in give the i d pariah s proof o "t of for the es as value foraue of h l o O n / s ., e or ofb rated at t poor's rates. [Here the Noble Lord went into a state ment of the number of boroughs disfranchised, and s ta h x a e all lls, be arrears e entitl to a spe cified period ss such bif b ; i a s nd n l a nd o householder landlord pays siiis of those enfranchised, but in terms at variance with the printed Bill- His Lordship almost immediately corrected himself, but in a tone of voice not heard below the bar.] Upon this general outline, your Lordships are now called on to decide. I call upon any man to say if it be exposed to objection. Will it be considered that the right of nomination to borough's forms a part of the British Constitution ; but, on the c n trary, will not ail men say that such a right is wholly at variance, and inconsistent with the spirit and indepen dence of that Constitution ; I say, my Lords, that its ac knowledged principles demand the discontinuance of this modern—l should call it this incorrigible—abuse, as the only means of recovering that popular confidence without which the representatives of the people in the Commons' House of Parliament could not adequately discharge the high trusts reposed in them. I will go much farther. I will contend that, neither in theory or practice, is such a system consistent with the principles of the British Constitution. In theory, all men agree that the represens tation of the people in the Commons House of Parliament should be full, fair, and free; while, in the present prac tice, it is anything but full, fair, or free: and no roan can contend for its continuance, unless he be also prepared to maintain, that a system is beneficial to the country, in accordance with the principles of political expediency and unalterable justice, which gives to loan contractors and speculating attorneys the rights and the influence AO:arch ought to belong to rank and Landed possessions, and local connection and personal character. I can little imagine that, in times like the present, a system Fetch as this can find its advocates ; that those strange and un just anomalies should be defended in the 19th century_. in an age like this, when" the schoolmaster is abroad."— ( Hear, hear!) I should have imagined that merely 1 to state the existence of nomination boroughs in drat country would be quite sufficient to ensure their beion de nounced. Let us see how far this matter affects the aristo eratic branch of the Legislature. In the writings of all the men who have ever written on the Conetitrition of this country—in the recorded resolutions of the House of Corn inons—in the proceedings of the House of Commons —I can find no trace or vestige of any thing to warrant such a pra aice as that nomination. On the contrary. the emst careful steps have at various times been tsars for the purpose of avoiding any practice of that suture, or even having a tendency thereto. Were theeo in the theory I s r ittheprae reasonable tice t o o f so tl p i e po, C e o t n b s a ti t tu i t tio w n ol a ii r d i anything of e o e f ca t p h e e d so tt r a r e , acuteness of Locke and of Blackstone? It has not only been acknowledged by them, but it has been denounced by Chatham and Saville, by Pitt, by Fox, and by Grattan, It has been denounced by them as that gross abuse, that rank gangrene, which was eating into the vitals of the Constitution, destructive alike of the liberties or the people, the security of this House, and the maintenance of the Throne.—(Cheers.) I refer to the records of Parlia ment, in evidence of the impropriety of the interference of Peers in the election of the Members of the other ll:cs4s,k At the commencemene oi• every session, is it net, qinde, a standing order that Peers shall not interfere with the elec tion of Members of the House of Commons '• And will any man in the face of that maint4a that Peers ought to a buy and sell seats i n P ar li ament ? 'Will any man, upon a point lik e th a t, h ave t h e h ardihood to set him 'elf against the r ecor d e d resolutions ea; the House o f m s °n n s ? the HouseAnoth Another principle cmmo ns of ; our Constituti on i s , and se jealou s i s th a t that no m an s h a ll b e taxed undeas thro ug h hi s represen- Cntaotivae in House of its privilegas, in respect to Bills for the imposi tion of taxes., that it will not allow this House to correct the roost trifling mistake, without instantly thimble. out the Bill. Will it then be contended that tic practice of nomination is in any respect consistent with principles soda :is thcse 7 The arguments, then, which rest, upon Pe e theory of the Constitution, are argutneens which I h o ld cannot be refuted ; let us then come fro she practice of the Constitution. I hold it to hg. equally ineonsistent with all any man, b y sucha any p reference raotice w to as the ever practice le o g ti o c l e ly ouroifnt ancestors,introduced? i:ced?i show s that I have ev er b een a bl e to di scover of that practice— where is the proof- of its eve r l!aving heen recognised ? C an is not the known prerogative of the Crown to issue sum monses to towns and other places to return Members to Parliament? And it is equally indisputable that for the most part those writs were issued with a view to the competency, wealth, and population of those places,, and their general fitness to return Members of Parliament when so suannomed. Is it not notorious that the issue of those writs has been discontinued, either on application Sr. be relieved from the burden of returning Members--for in those days it was a burden—or (teen the known decay of those places? These are fae'; ‘ a notorious in the history of Parliament. I do not memo to say that this prerogative hes, at all times been Wieely exercised. Ido not mean to, say that it might not have been e ‘ bv.a..d—that writs werne en i e d where they onght to have been issued, and catia:, aue d w h ere they ought to have been withdrawn ; but tells not hi n against th e prin c ipl e f or w hi c h we a . le contending—that principle is, that th e representatio:,a of the people o u g ht be, only ground on whi c h wr it s g a real representation ; the . '..nat the borough h a d f a ll en i nto could be refused, was decay. These c o aasiderations, then, lead nee to the other branch of the aubject. It is said that the measure is one of spee.ulation and robbery.—(A cheer from a Noble Lord on one of the Opposition benches.) I think I hear some Noble Lord assenting to this position. Let us look at the foundation upon which this rests. I deny that the right of returning Members to Parliament is other than a trust I and surely no man will have the hardihood to affirm that the obligations of a trust are not perfectly distinct from the rights of property. Property may he enjoyed —may be used—ruay be abused, provided I the abuse injures no mar but the owner; hut a trust is confided for certain ends and purposes; and if a trust be violated, it may be resumed with perfect Justice. In the private trkusacki,orts of life that principle bar, ever been acted lis,n ; and I sea nothing that should deprive us of its beteeAt in transactions of a public and neoletical character; and I say that time, however long, c4n consecrate no abuse so glaring and indisputable. Nothing can convert a trust into a right of property, 'j'his, ales, is no act of rob. bery or spoliatiou. A win: affirm that, over and over ageles s , the old practice ok the Constitution was, that the :King should realise has welt s ; it is a matter of the moss perfect, noteriery that forty-four boroughs and oue c . ..ry were thus in effect, disfranchised, in censequenceeef : the discontinu e once of the writs ; thus then th!:. sill, only proceeded ac, cording to the usual practice: if the Constitution, in pro: ceeding as it did with Ilea bereetahs contatued in aekeirnakt A. Much has 4,r., SV4LI a tepoliatiou and roblaeey a taut is there sneaking in neadero times that equally wall desei yes : VI cc. •:,, ~inae rserne ? Look to the Uoson with Scotland; on, that occasion sixty-five le Teseghs were reduced to fdteen, t and one hundred berouglse an Ireland, returning here huge deed Members, wene, under eieiiiar circunieteneeta distran ehised ; was tint an art o: robbery and, soeliatiou? 010, hut thine wee, on that occasion, etonspeneataten..—(Loud 1 cries of " Hear, hear, sitar,,' from the Opposition benches, re-echoed l'aertn, the, Minieseelal.) N.', it w.ts not compere:a-4km, , ie was grvaa and scandalous bribery _eorre e pt and neeerioua bribery—it was 5, lire te for agNeing• to the Unitaea. I was in the Misuse of Costae, mops at thee time. I voted against e).e measure 4 the Upiteo at the time, but now thee it has been tarried, that it has subsisted f;4 so. wady years, I must say that any attempt tea sheeelee it would be in tae last degree injurious to Loth ceonteies. Once agar.. i repeat, that whaa vile . given, to the Irish borough-;rimers was not cona- Paaettoo s but a bribe.-Here Lord PLUNKETT addressed a few words to the Notate, EA.]: lam rep ended by my Nettle and Learned, r,ctiend, that twenty-riche of the Irish hormiehe lee; ;see-half of their es:presentation without any conapeneatiou whatever, - ef to take ;lie whole be a rob hery, surely to telse half is in principle the earn, ; but tie object is t , ‘p,uotorious to be disputed, or to teed any dis cu•ina.. No--if the Irish Parliament had not completelY ftrfeited all claim to the confidence of the to represent,, that Act would never have le en heard of which is now attempted so be repealed, an d w hi t eh i,s l . thi A k t never can be rooked without ruin to bo a th ee c a : s un l have r said, the period when that Union took place, y afterweards I heard in the House of Commons, sad 1. 1 " )"' i the Irish House of Mr. Foster, wile Lead been SP"' t e c ° rho United Partied/lent, Commons, *my in his place is given, and Peerages bar b d b een directly chat money a —.4Clieets and counter , sheers.) I he' in hereof votes. a l. : no hesitation in saying , on the subject of I eerages, that occasion—l allude to the Coronation, a time no a recent occ people it proles,ed s when the Royal grace and prerogative are usually exercised in reference to the Peerage—that I should not have done m y duty, if I had advised the exercise of that prerogative