The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-08 00:00:00

~ r it fair to as rept r by which re were not n they anlY Leir nn the very to ~,pect 3 a never been 1 agitation, e yeomanry county n, and lo d 000 votes, Reform, e..", No one 141, ed he t retioqui shea 's persevere reeti his opioio , sexy o f the t it was : a t ' b e en sow of policy han anoth er as as to the other to" e n ot :Issl'avteurre, he ;pedi,ney .04 riy it to which tile bcat morel isle):eitted fertility th a t t h e f au l ty system un d er wh i c h red th :ens had grown up would be corrected. He ad oust . Plan which had been submitted to the House, m tht 't left no matter fur future concession. —(Hear, ep2PPosition Benches ' )—lf it had been framed on eligr, ,'e principle —if it had let half the rotten h o f t i lo existence, or ta k en only one Mein) (nun 1n el cm -instead o f a f i nal settlement it would have ae t : Me Member for Corfe Castle called a payr i nen r t , 1 It 414'; instead of a lasting peace, it would have b e en th, b "'w truce. The present measure effectually bro k e . lorwerfol combination which influenced the dem iit ! that ii "m" ' A. moderate P.eform, or what he , ti e4 t . ,, l ; ' l4O l R" form, w,,iilel only stimulate the Re a • r est , exsrtions. He had ever been en ardent all's:ere friend of Reform ; but at the same time he 4 to 4 t `, eci that he would shrink with apprehension . Hea t re modellin g re modellin g of the system of . reyresen.ati t o i n. . t . i k ar, and a laugh from the Opposition.) , Gen acid illt '! t lati,gl), but he again declared that he would t ; e t li)iv::::trgh ;P ed ° r e ; 1 in\r:4'eVnlt'eaaatnti practical : la' tecl l t' v ii calleduno g u l ( a t I: l l,ra e ec rr t yt i l' i ini e n als ing a ii ll'altilit'sni abuses s n at o a f f' P. s tr l iel i ee e .1. division of counties and towns, and the giving iesentatives to every 100,000 or 200,000 inhalii se'rhe Present rise isme merely proposed to correct .. lih d l t u ' . fi . iies of the existin g system eit . r . cpres,ntation : it fo i . e •,,t where the: e Wil9 no popwatu•n, there should ', N 4 l " P er r f o i Motive s ; and that where there wet e great ti masses of the population without represen t,-'47 should in future possess them. The diffe.•-• h,;_ u ld, he tholoslit strike any one, except such a psr " il °°. Member n for Aldhorough, whose eyes t'he i m lY char when he wished to find fault. A t its -e 'ortri now would not satisfy the people. The ,'lb,..oelil be extended every year, until the people .iti; cern e so accustomed to change, that at len l gtb ea t l ie ht sni it would be entirely swept away. t If% the d I t. Prudent to disappoint the excited hopes o . 114:Whether it was proper to have excited those. ~1 4, he would not stay to inquire. He . la7,ged "It, ' - f - 10 remember that the th , n? . . was dolic•— e, aii mol the Opposition.) The proposal had been L°Pli ch l i i t ! was now to late to recall it. (Cheers from I Y na I ') In his opinion the proposal , had been is tha'' Potriuticall made. It was impos.ib.e to snp- Ith a a t the reformers would be satisfied with any thing t i t l it t i l : e e t ,m2 o asure proposed. More they might have, Supposing „ "v uld never accept.—(Hear.) tll'fri, Present measure should be thrown out, and other ho, t , e e et t i ll ,.. entn. • ea et , l ar w e it o l fi t ß h t e i.,, G !. ;ernment, should carry a could any rational man l ref ° "It would for a single day arrest the efforts of i iti til nli s et ' ? Again, he b-gged the House to reflect t he e r 4ei ted (Pat e o f f ee ling which prevailed through ' As t aulit rY Upon this subject, and consider what would 4f: sequence of its rejection. Let not . Hon. Mem 'lntl t ° satisfy their consciences, by saying that tl f iey a ise'rtributed to produce this state of things. If t re Qr ' fire, it would not become part of the crew to 0 0 0 „ t wist in extinguishing the flames, because they ) l o . s 'usre in producing the conflagration. --(Hear.) w hich Ministers had proposed was cautious derides etiandithe peopl • as far as could be ascertained, ,heirt people, of it.—(Hear.)—Under . cireo,,, , sfti pp - o s r 7 . nees, the measure should receive his most to • P EEL wished to know when this discussion ieh li te :we an end. After the brilliant speeches which t Made on b oth sides of the question, it would r - 0 ordinary ing enu i ty to pro d uce any f res h obser -4F Nev erthel e s s , before th e d e bat e cl os ed, lie was de ' rk i i rekl iiiig against ' the abominable .. injustice of the 44 ~ Measure, both in principle and . detail. He t'illt fa measure, of what he owed to his present and ' ft a t i:""tituents, if he did not indignantly . Talon itca,•;''' the ro sosed spoliation of their privileges. A 4 of the measure pi would be unjust, even if the s e - t were acknowledged to be good. By . the the according to the census taken in 1821, 4 9 11 of Tavistock was stated at 5,483, that of Caine i ts h .'t'd that of Tamworth 3,572. There was, e t°ln i v l: t ' e : " l , a gross error with respect to the return of MI 'rm Of Tamworth, and he thought that he could th e t* tat. s'ill'e of the fact. The returning offic h er, who , 01, - ' 5 no sinister object in view, had statFclte 7 60; al t' 4 0 1 114 jO TaMWOI th to be '747 ; in Tavistock, b e, 461 „Ifere ren 7tvlrorth.r.) ; and yet the population of the two last Presented to be more considerable than that The return from the Tax-office the number of ° houses in Tamworth, rated at 10/., !sl e 7Tamworth, and in et Or C 24. The of the um -1 5' , ..., 4 gave to a Tamworth l , 322 ; to return Tavi stock, n 27 ; SPe'etortfel IS. He had a right to say, therefore, that to TawPulation and property Tamworth was su 4 tock or Caine. Why, then, was the for -1,1"1:P to be deprived of its representatives, and the 'it i„ tore tain theirs ?•_( Hear, hear.) This might be So'' ti g speech, but he was determined he would AI ictonfession. He would oppose the measure • When h e heard it propounded, he was t hat t a ot he purge would not it god p u rge • The • • of the Noble Lord . . Eh, tzeure, and , "tti t h a t • e practice dif pass—that the dose •,„ at o f physicians in general. some proceeded on the All principle of 1 4 e , Lilt the Noble Lord acted on the principle l of 4r t LiO n w ti l , e ure. The Noble Lord reminded him of the 4 0 - 1.1 ""h nurses got children to take physic. . 4 sf good% that the measure would do them . great t ( ill '. a lld that if they would swallow it all, like ris e ' with . 4 . 1 1 , - out spitting an of it out, it should be the •i 'lle Noble Lord, however, y had forgot the ac th n Di 1, 4 t he !rsz o - ,"°e of sugar ; be killed his patient outright. le s e .'Oese e l e Lord should give up practice, might he k e ", ll tued by some other doctor who would ii Mire ' V tir e of annual Parliaments and universal suf y.7l4turetras sure the Hon. Member for Preston was uld r ,it je‘ em meh to allow him to allude to him in the -'e eery: '' He believed that if the present measure h 1 o%l4etoi,eeti, three months would not pass before t e p - ,.. 3 let 'w ould say, " You have not donehalf ld'itiol,.,,me Persuade you to try Hunt's matchless take "(M Urmurs.) He thought that no person take tobrage at what he said, when the Hon. ! h it ' I.l ' ' i . re 'tGri himself seemed perfectly well please( C'at m e -41,1 not admit that the Ministry displayed ifi;Yiti iig'auirnity in bringing forward the question, b.. he t t 4 t i - d at t heY would stand or fall by it. It could "op o , ied that they were standing when the measure 1 41 :i l ee, 4' They were on their last legs. Their ll t ot _ a whitibered. In conclusion he called upon a g si l Ate , ° I , were oppo.ed to the vete by ballot, univer- N„411p;.0-51Poliution of church property, the destruc -0 Pe nY, and the overthrow of the monarchy, to "il totr( Hear hear. ) %,, t Yi '''ELL said, ' that the Hon. Member was tk to t;:eeorrect in the facts which he had stated with k:11,4 e., P°Pulation and number of houses in Tam- R 1 „Nos e n , e ,* He found by the returns upon the table i 4 4 4 1 h - 6 4 'Is n t the number of houses in Tavistock was 441 146 ' 4 e " 8 . --(Hear, hear.) When the Hon. 'l, • tt‘i t -m to She number of electors at Tavistock 4 4," o t :• t i ° l l . 4 Y 27, he forgot that it was to remedy 4 0,....( 1 , 14 description that the present measure was I lb - "litt*Z ea r) He regretted that it should be im- Otiv ee ill 7rs that they had been influenced by per- N t _ h ey 0 . , f raming the details of the great measure , r, ot te 7 brought forward. The odium whicil d l liq te,„fliternpted to throw upon Ministers would ~ ,,r Sold , ° , 1 , t1 Weight upon themselves. The Hon. -.4411 that .._ %te e r„"° Reformer, even the Hon. Member t°,014 Point P. Burdett), in the experience of 40 * - , 1 4 Dud e Out an instance in which his Noble re i',' ill 1,4'.0f Bedford, had abused the influence he it lu n tilt° c l c; but it was to prevent a monopoly Ie t e ,i s ee, that might not be so well exercised, ` 1 1 :. It E t PPort to the hia. Wo ol) e xplained. 'aid, that according to the doctrine of 0 '4ti ", it I, Insu lt ., _ was of no consequence whether Y 4 layv" ot nominees of Noble Lords, or was the g e or small tion of the people ; 14 1 if that Pet- fallacious doe si ,i. 1, 4 ,._ , at this was a Ils'Y 6 1 , 1 ' 41 ° a doubt of it, that doubt would b . tt 4 41,) i PeeFif of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir 'tit 43'' hueo . t did not become him (Mr. Wood) to l' h e l4 that 111 1 t. ad a r . , House ; but as a Member of Par- . i. that „,:got to remark upon any argument of Ito - 11 p ,i.Ntronet. The Right Hon. Baronet had kt6iNtl t a'."atnent was. dissolved, I.e would go down s " lit W ' t li th • si,lo d ilad r . e Bill in his hand, and tell the elec. i h '') i i i *Pri ve J'isted to the utmost this measure, which t4' ll "-4 1 : 14 atld u r e es nl _ 't' a Part of their votes. He (Mr. h , t t , bu t ...., address electors of Preston, who were :5 4 1 )00 0 no in the course of time would be re ; It • ,in a • I h Yst i . 4 tru e • different manner. He would say to earl upp ed it Portion of your elective franchise is 'I•"117•%t ~,,, Me by universal suffrage, and I esteem SN 41•114,3""Pliment; but recollect that your two :"1P" ° f a- et ' t Were liable to be ovFrpootered by _the . liohl e 1 4 , I ill, s oo ~._ r who a proprietor of boroughs , to t ''ep r i .'''" o More persons enjoy the elective rqs :ni t s. t 'ng You of your franchise I have emi t,. t k •ft t„ many . . . . `Of 1,411 veil, Pon other individuals, and there rfv -94 1 ,.., .1 ne better guarded."--(Hear.) It was til‘Zt, Cito reflect that no Member, in the course - SR e4 , \ got up and said that no Reform was ri r ii.:) . All persons out of doors were per t StoOd in need of Reform, and the mltal only question was, what was the Reformwhich the House was disposed to grant. In his opinion his Majesty's Mini sters bad really redeemed their pledge. He had had com munication from many places, including manufacturing towns in the north of England, which were unanimous in their expression of satisfaction at the Bill. They saw in it a security for good government, and were convinced that it would set the question at rest. His Hon. and Learned Friend, the Member for Boroughbridge, had talked of cor poration-robbery; but he was a gratuitous defender of corporation interests, for corporations were coming forward to petition in favour of the Bill. London had set the example, and Chester, Lincoln, and other places were in motion. As to robbery, was the elective franchise given to corporations for their exclusive profit ? The Hon. and Learn, d Member knew that there was no trust deed that did not contain a clause for the dismissal of trus tees who miseond octet] themselves.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Wood) contended that those trustees had miscon ducted theme Ives, and were:in many instances so reduced in number that they could nut fulfil their trust. As an appeal had been made to former debates, and as Mr. Can ning's name had been introduced, he should read an ex tract from a speech which he hid made (and which he had authority to say was corrected by himself), not to the elector, of Liverpool, whom he would not characterise as they deserved, but to a club of bankers, merchants, and men of high respectability, in which lie speaks of the middle classes as the conservative portion of the state, and in whom it must confide. He would read the passage, and then ask the Hnitse to determine whether Mr. Can ning could have been an enemy to Reform. (The Hon. Mender then read an extract of considerable length from a speech of Mr. Canning.) IT would ask how tilem could be any such security for the middle classes as Mr. Canning proposed, except by the measure now proposed. The try :j rite of the House was returned by 300 indivi duals, some of them Peet,, who, whatever were their cha racter, were liable to he influenced by human merives, and acted upon by their families and dependents. The electors too, were sometimes a handful of individuals liable to temptation and to pecuniary inflaence from their station in life. To temove these anomalies, to give all an interest in the pr, nervation of property, was the object of this Bill. The House was not to be deterred from doing this act of justice by the yells of the monster corruption. That coon: ter was now at hay ; it had received a mortal wound ; its plunges were violent, but it was in its last agony. . . . . Air. JOHNSTONE contended that the measure, in stead of being revolutionary, was restrictive in its prin ciple, dictated in the true spirit of impartiality, steering the due course between the views of political antiquaries arid the schemes of political projectors. The House, as history established, in its Constitution was representative —it had re ver completely lost that character; but as long as so large a cumber of Members were returned n ithout popular suffrage, so long would the people refuse confi dence to its decisions. B: sides it interfered with the due conduct of the affairs of Government; the corruption of the House was a theme to every factious declaimer—the fulcrum by means of which Government were shaken. He would make the House of Commons an organ to in fluence the people, and to give the tone to opinion instead of receiving it. The class of people to whom the franchise was extended was that to which the country looked for the destruction of the wholesale system of bribery, while it would infuse into the lower orders higher and better prin ciples of action. The qualification of the elector was s , rfficicn•ly high to produce a feeling of responsibility, while no man was so low as not to be able to indulge the reasonable hope of rising to a station to entitle him to the franchise. No doubt rank and wealth would maintain their due influence, but the middle classes were the natural guardians of soci rl order, and the Aristocracy had nothing to fear if they depended upon pubic virtue, instead of re lying upon Parliamentary patronage. He supported the Bill, chiefly because he thought it would produce a moral regeneration in the habits and feelings of the country. Mr. NORTH commenced by adverting to the speech of Lord Howick. He rejoiced that it had been delivered, be cause if there were still one man who imagined that a spirit of moderation actuated Ministers, he must have been undeceived. There were many who varied in their notions of the necessity of Reform, but he did not until this night believe that there was a single English gentleman who could approach the British Constitution with a view to re peal or alter it, however slightly, without some feeling of reverence and affection, The Noble Lord was the exception to the rule which he (Mr. North) had believed universal. This Constitution, held up to admiration not only by our own nation, but by foreigners of every speech, the Noble Lord seemed to think nothing more than a corrupt instru ment, by means of which this country had had inflicted upon it a whole century of misgovernment.—(Hear.) According to the Noble Lord, it was rotten in all its parts—(No, no, no)—at all events, that it required a thorough repair—(Hear, hear)—although a friend of the Noble Lord had characterised the House of Commons as justly as beautifully when he bad described it as the noblest assembly of freemen in the world. If indeed the Constitu tion of the House were so decayed, if it were so corrupt, so deba,ed, that it might he made by Government the instru ment of every abuse, then he would tell the Noble Lord that his Bill would not go far enough, and that the chance was not sufficient. He hoped, however, that others had more moderate opinions, and leaving the Noble Lord, with them he would attempt to grapple. He would first ask where was the necessity for this tremendous change? What recent miscarriage by Government—what event in this year 1931 had shown that the House of Commons was incapable of its functions, and that this great Reform was necessary to restore it to its competence ? Where was the emergency that had never before occurred, calling upon Government to adopt this unprecedented course ? The ma ligned Constitution had been equal to the settlement of the great question of a disputed succession—it had sus tained, unmoved, the shock of the French Revolution, when all foreign states were shaken, and some overthrown, and had finally, with success, struggled against the mili tary and imperial greatness of Bonaparte ? Where, then, he again asked, was the new emergency calling for this unheard-of-measure—this machine, under the controul of the Noble Lord, which was to be the substitute for our ancient and venerable Constitution? He would, however, do Ministers the justice to say, that they did hot rest their proposition on this ground only ; they urged that there was a necessity of a different description—that there was clamour out of doors—that extrinsic violence was to be dreaded and avoided—that the call for Reform was soloud and so imperious, that the House must ohey it without even a murmur. He for one had heard no such call ; and he was not satisfied that among the people any general feeling prevailed in favour of the Bill. No man was more ready than he was to obey a steady, firm, deliberate call by the people; but all he had perceived was a transient emotion—a flash, an ontbreaking of the fiery temper of the people, a partial eddy, not to be mistaken for the weighty and continued current of public opinion. In a State where a free press existed, and public topics were discus sed, these transitory gusts were part of the price paid for liberty ; but it became the House to beware that it did not mistake them for a determined and deliberate national conviction. Hereafter the House might be told that it ought to have paused—that the ebullition was hasty and temporary, and that it had ill become it so inconsiderately to sacrifice the Constitution. An attempt had been made to assimilate the state of feeling in this country, on Par liamentary Reform, to the popular excitement in Ireland ' on the question of Catholic emancipation. In his view, however, there was not the slightest resemblance between the two. Catholic emancipation was the long-sought de sire of a confederated nation, united by common grievance and a century of oppression. But the Roman Catholics asked no change—they only claimed to be admitted into the bosom of the ancient Constitution of the country.— Of all men, it ill became the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland to press this point, when he himself had just sup pressed an artificial and temporary excitement for the re peal of the Union, which was precisely analogous to the transitory clamour of the people of England in favour of Parliamentary Reform. He would now inquire into the merits of the contemplated change ; and here the pro posers of the measure would do well to satisfy themselves on two points—first, that they thoroughly understood the old Constitution : secondly, that they were fully aware of the nature and extent of the new.—(Hear, hear.) The British Constitution was not a simple structure, but of mixed architecture of many different ages, and the Hon. Member for Callington (Mr. Baring) had well said that while vulgar ignorance might criticise the exterior, it was incapable of estimating the internal beauties of the fabric. In removing what some might consider an excrescence, an unshiful operator might de stroy the principle of vitality. He was convinced that close boroughs were necessary to the great ends of the Constitution. He apprehended that the mere quality of being a representative of the people would not be suffi cient for the purposes of Government. Whatever might be original, certain it was that as our great empire ex tended, her interests became more numerous and compli cated, and the representatives of those interests in the House were practically called upon to decide all matters relating to them. The varied information they possessed was therefore absolutely necessary; and if the new system of the purists were to be adopted, he begged to know how the East Indian, the West Indian, and the other Colonial interests were to be represented in Parliarneot To put an end to close boroughs was, therefore, to deprive the House of some of its moat important lights. He. would take, as an example, the Hon. Member for Midhurst (Mr. John Smith) He sat for a close borough, and if he were removed, where could an adequate successor be found, who like him would expose the impo- Hey of the Chancellor of the Exehequer's late tax upon the transfer of property, and compel the Noble Lord to abandon it. He would not press the argument, that to abolish close boroughs would be to shut the doors of the House against talent, because that was a point which he apprehended would not be disputed ; the House was also the asylum for those who professed unpopular opinions, and ne Minister could faithfully discharge his duty to his Sovereign and his country, without at some time or other running counter to the national sentiment. Such men were his support and protection ; and, without their aid, he would be obliged to provide for the people those cates which would please the palate, without being either whole some or nutritious. If ever there were an instance in which the people were called on to support public men for the bold advocacy of the popular cause, it was on the occasion of the dissolution of the Irish Parliament in the year 1783. Mr. Hardy, the biographer of Lord Cliaide wont, in speak'ng of the occurrences of that period, says, " If it is necessary not to animadvert not unfrequently upon the mi,conduct of Ministers, it is necessary also to take notice of the faults of the people. Despicable is the man who, to soothe their ear, dwells with a ma lignant and vulgar satisfaction on the errors of their rulers, and never touches on their own. In August, 1783, hat is, three months before the meeting of the Convention in Dublin, the Parliament was diciolved, and a new one was summoned to meet. Here, then, were the people called on to act their part in the choice of representatives. If it be sullenly said, that the system of representation cir cumscribed the popular choice in too narrow limits, I ac cede to the proposition ; but I beg to add, that it was not so bound as to prevent its coming forth at all. Numerous boroughs were, still they did rot overspread the whole field of elections ; the counties and several free towns remained ; yet most certain it is, that not one county, not one free town or corporation throughout the kingdom, expressed their own or the people's gratitude by e'ecting any of the eminent men who had so recently and so gloriously led them on to the best victory—the triumph of national freedom. Nay, some country gentlemen, who hid, in the last contest, acted the most independent part, were thrown out. Mr. Flood end his illustrious rival were obliged to wander as far as elections extended through this mist of popular oblivion, and find their way to Parliament in any manner they The borough of Charleinont once more silently received Mr. Grattan ; and lair. Flood had great difficulty in finding any seat whatever."— (Much cheering.)—He was sorry to detain the House, but he could taut help reading a fiw lines further—(Hear, hear)—in which Mr. II tidy went on to sty, " At this very moment were demagogues rushing forth from every part of the kingdom in quest of Parliamentary Re form, and vociferating that the people would not elect a single friend, and were dissatisfied with all that bad been done, in Parliaments, unless they could give free and more extended utterance to the voice of tl e constituent, which voice, when called upon by the Constitution itself to speak, was, as to the upholding of that Constitution, no where to be heard."—(Cheers.) From these reinarkiible instances it might by eeen that the people, on whose dis cernment in the choice of fit representatives so much re liance was placed, were not only not so discerning as to find out their friends from amongst the number of the untried, but had not even sufficient discernment to know their tried friends, nho had to find their way into Parliament by the silent assistance of those boroughs, which were now about to be disfranchised. But that gentleman, who, in a speech which had been so much and so justly admired, had toll the House that the accession of such men to Parliament was the result of a happy accident. It might as well be sold that it was a happy accident which had constructed and placed in its position there, that clock before them, now indicating the hour of the night. The accession of such men to Parliament was one of the results of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear, heir.) He would tell the Honourable Member for Caine, that there were men as fit to serve their country and to adorn its literature in that House as was that eloquent gentleman himself, who had not had that happy accident ; and that, but for that happy accident, the Hon. Member for Caine would have la boured for the political welfare and the literary honour of his country, without obtaining that just distinction and celebrity, which, however he (Mr. North) might differ from his arguments, he admitted his eloquence and inge nuity hail deservedly olitained.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—He (Mr. N.) had now endeavoured, without fatiguing the House, to impress upon them, as much as was in his power, those arguments which no practical man could un dervalue, because they bad only been drawn from practice and experience. Ile had not thought it necessary to dwell upon the details of the Noble Lord's system of Reform; but there was against those details one point which bad not been dwelt upon in the course of the previous debates upon the Noble Lord's proposition, to which he (Mr. North) thought it right to call the attention of the House. He alluded to the effects of the measure upon that part of the kingdom to which he belonged. He was perfectly sure that the Noble Lord was net aware of the effects of his plan upon the representation of Ireland. But the Noble Lord was aware that in the year 1829, scarcely two years ago, a change was made in the constituency of Ire land to promote the balance of the several interests in that country. It was then thought that, in admitting their Roman Catholic fellow-subjects to a participation of privi leges from which they had before been excluded, it was necessary to guard against the danger which might be brought against the institutions of the country by the un due preponderance of that class of the Irish people. Would not the whole of that arrangement be subverted by the plan of the Noble Lord ? If that plan were now to be carried into effect, he would answer the Noble Lord that in at least twenty counties, and in most of the cities and towns of Ireland, the Protestant interest would, by that plan, be bound hand and foot in subjection to the Roman Catholic.—(Hear, hear.) lie spoke honestly..— (Hear, hear.) No man could contradict him.—( Hear, hear.) He was sure that the Hon. Member for Waterford would say that such result would not be mischievous sr to be regretted ; but he was confident that the Hon. Mens - would deny that such would be the result. He (Mr. North) believed certainly that such would be the conse quence, and he could not allow the Bill to pass without pointing out its effects.—(Heir.) Having glanced at that part of the detail, he would return to the general question, whether the Bill ought to pass at all. That what, to his mind, seemed to be the greatest mischief attaching to the measure was, that notwithstanding what had been said to the contrary, it would net be final.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Severe its he considered the injuries to be which it would inevitably inflict upon the best interests of his constituents, he believed it would be some consolation to him could he think it was a final measure. But there was no stability apparent in the plan. There was no mooring or anchorage around it, in which whatever it would leave of the Constitution might be saved.-- (Cheers.) It was a problem which would lead them day after day further from the home of their ancient institu tions—which would lead them into that, revolutionary hell that gaped before them. Low as the Bill itself would bring the Constitution, it was to be remembered that, in the words of Milton, " in the lowest deep there is a deep still lower, waiting to devour us."--( Great cheering.) Ira the next year, or in the year after, the Government might be embarrassed by the consequences of an insufficient harvest, by popular commotion, by commereial difficulty, o e a t l beenl their f u distressesl taught efthey were ( e t tyti e we ti hen l h e eea e adi e dnee o rseu , enaf itett inadequate p a t r t pt weeop t (st. h )reuhed e esl y de tdno m bet eaf u etbe s ifeoo t t stul n_ bn o ey, t if or by colonial di pression. Th e peop l e end the colonies had not n refe r defective,( theC l r e e r w s , ) C — os k a n n isi d tfiu , tiu w t ai when Constitution n w( which it was constructed)—(Cheers)—when they would crowd the table with petitions again for a new Constitu tion—(Cheers) —and when the Hon. Member for Britt Port would come down with a Bill for the vote b y ballot end. when the Honourable Member for Midhurst would come with his detail of hundreds of griev ances —(Cheers)— w how would the new Constitution be defend e d ? It could adduce no prescription. It could make no r e f erence to history for years of happiness and glory enj o y e d under its rule. n t as .—( tv e r of beer)— He could imagine th e Noble Lord,t he Paymaster the Forces, to rise i n hi s place, with that happy r c omposition with which, he so oft en delig hted Cheers)—and h e b House, to convince them that no di sasters h ad been occa sioned, that no evils could be attributed to hi s recently tried Constitution; when reference. would be m a d e to the wouldnew Constitutions toldst iti ittihoants all o fo mischiefsthe r S exis ting tate —( were prod uce d his Government o f yesterday.—(Cheering.)—Thosye framers of Constitutions, those conceited men—(Cheers) have not extended their views back over a year, not even a month, but plan all by anticipation, at once abolishing the Constitution under which the nation had enjoyed so much happiness. In that view he was bound, as a free and din .: dependent Member of the Legislature, to ddecsiclaitriethhiastotphie- B ni t o it n o t i h e a ß t th e igiit m H e o a n s . o r s e ec s r v e a t s a r r y evo fo l u r t i o l n re a l r a y n ._ Bill comprehended no measure of revolution ; th at , i n fact, no measure was revolutionary which was enacted with the consent of the three branches of the Legis lature—the King, Lords, and Commons. It was scarcely necessary to reply to that argument. Sup pose that those three branches of the Legislature had thought fit to destroy the liberty of the press, to annul the Act of Habeas Corpus, and to abolish Trial by Jury—all whic4s they were, it would be conceded, quite competent to do—would any man say that such enactments were, in fact, a revolution ?—(Great cheering ?) He • would say, then, look to the revolutionary effects of that measure, which he might infer, from whet bad been said by the Noble Lord the Secretary for the Colonies, was to he brought about, in some degree, by the influence of an external physical power, acting in some manner upon the judgment of that House..—(Cheers.)—When the attempt was made to turn their attention frirn the true nature of the proposed revolution, by asserting that the overthrow of the Constitution by the King, Lords, and Commons, was fro revolution, because it was the act of the Constitution itself, he would ask, was the murder the less criminal be cause it was effected by thew own hands ? Was it the less murder bec ruse it was suicide 7 —(Cheers.) He would not longer detain tire Housea—(Hear, hear.) He would only say, that if they were determined to effect that impor tant, vital, and radical change in the Constitution of Great Britain, they should approach the subject with caution and respect. Let them consider, that it had grown up among the people like their language—(Hear)—that, like their language, it was native to them ; and that, though diffi cult it might be te trace its origin to Norman, D finish, or Sexon sources, it was still impossible to substitute another of equal fitness in its stead.—(Vehement cheering.) Mr. R. GRANT said, teat after the very copious, able, and eloquent disquisition which they hail just heard, he should have been very slow to follow if he did not feel that he could safely answer for himself to this extent,—namely, that lie could at least compete with the I-lon. and Learned Member in some of the excellent features of his speech, and that, in the short address with which he was about to trouble the House, he could practise that moderation which was in the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's recom mendation, but certainly not in his performance.—(Cheers and laughter.) He would not imitate the example, but follow the exhortation of the Hon. and Learned Gentle treen, and would refrain from retorting upon the Hon and Learned Gentleman the epithets " arrogant and self-con ceited."—(Ceeers.) Ile should have thought that the conduct of the present Government, who were humbly endeavouring to tread in the footsteps of a Pitt and Fox, might have eroteeted them from such epithets as these ; but the respect which he entertained for the character of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would prevent him from following the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in such a line of erimination. He must, however, say, that he did lament that notwithstanding their earnest endeavour to avoid all irri tating topics, and to induce Hon. Members to apply them , selves to the discussion of this, the most itnpertant mea sure which had been debated within the walls of that ' House for a century past, there should have been found some Hon. Members who, abandoning that wise and pro ' dent course, had allowed some matters which were alto gether of a personal nature to creep into their speeches. —(Cheers.) He did not regret this on his own ac• count ; for the single personal allusion which had been made to him was one which he was so far from finding fault with, that he should not et ail object to its heifig re-introduced as frequently as Honourable Gen tlemen pleased. He must, however, repeat, that lie did most sincerely lament that Hon. Gentlemen should think it worth while to introduce any topics of an irritat ine character into the discussion of this important, this difficult, and, in its consequences, this momentous ques tion. If the Home would allow him, he would despatch in one single sentence the allusion which had been made to himself personally. It had been said that some of them who sat upon that bench, and particularly those who were supposed, but who certainly did not attempt to represent the late Mr. Carmine, es ere guilty of inconsistency in sup porting the present measure. It would certainly be arro gance of the grossest kind in him, and would subject him most deservedly to the epithets which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had eo bountifully bestowed upon the Members of the Government, if he were to aspire to the character of being a representative of Mr. Canning.— Allow him to say, that lie had never aspired to the repu tation cr character of being the representative of that great genius, but that be stood there as one of the repre sentatives of the people, •and that in that capacity he claimed the right of considering with reason, end without prejudice, and of pronouncing upon boldly, any measure which might he submitted to the legislature.—(Cheers.) To claim this right, which no one could deny him, and to perform this duty, which if lie neelected, he should be answerable for his negligence to his constituents, were of far more importance to him than to save himself from a charge of inconsistency, however unjust that charge might be, and however intemperately that charge might be urged against him. The charge, hewever, which had been made in his absence, for lie had not been present for one or two evenings in consequence of indisposition, he utterly denied to Ciave any foundation in truth, or justice, or good sense.—(Cheers.) He might, indeed, as many other Hon. Gentlemen had, take refuge against this charge, in the fact that he had never opened his lips in that House on the subject of Reform, and that he had very seldom been present in that House when the question of Reform had been discussed.—(Hear, hear.) But he would take no such ground. He confessed freely and candidly that his early opinion* were very touch against it ; but these opinions were neither well matured nor well con sidered, and the events of the last se,sion of Parliament had called his more serious attention to the subject. The events of the late general election, and particularly at the county elections,—which events allow him to say he was filled with astonishment to find Hon. Members asserting to be the fruits of some temporary excitement,—had made a deep i mpress i on u pon him. H e m i g h t b e wrong , b u t upon th ese even t, and upon the roost mature deliberation, be f e lt hi mse lf ca ll e d upon to supp or t t h e present measure ; and h e f e lt no t the slightest displeas ure a t th e taun t o f in consistency, hieing perfectly satisfied that no man could be justly celled inconsistent who acted consistently with the dictates of his own judgment and his own conscience.— (Loud cheering.) But how, let him ask, could it be sup posed that they who had seen Mr. Canning when he came into another department—he meant when Mr. Can ning was called to preside over our foreign policy—as sume a ground altogether different from that on which he had taken his stand clueing all the former period of his life, —When they contemplated, the acts of Mr. Canning's foreign policy, and saw the consequences of those acts, and the electrical effects which they produced upon every country in Europe,--how, he repeated, could it be supposed that they who had been witnesses to this conduct on the part of Mr. Canning, in his department, should hesitate, if they were to take Mr. Canning as their example, to act ac. cordin g to their own judgments in their own depart ment, wh en the circumstances of the time were altered and when new exigencies required new measures ?—(Cheers.) He would contend that they should adapt themselves to the changes and tire-circumstances of the times. Could it be that, at this eventful period, opinions in that House alone should remain quiescent and immoveable, while every thing around them was in motion and in change?— (Hear, hear.) With regard to the able and eloquent ad dress which they had heurel from the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who bad just sat down, he begged to say, that in one respect, a nd in one respect only, he concurred with that Hon. end Learned Gentleman. That Hon. and Learned Gentleman, taking for granted that there was a cry abroad —that there was a craving by petition before Parliament for this measure, as was the case in the instance question—taking that for granted, which w ,the Hon. and Learned Gentleman argued, cif f i a a ts the t h i e re Ca fa l il ith e tstance of Catholic emancipation, we properly ielded • to long-continued demands for the redress of long cperinesteinnutedocEsiejtvmanweeass; o b f u a t t t l r ia a t nait t o h l e y e a x n e d ite t m em en p t nr o a n ry n th a e . tare—that it was produced by individuals who had no i ntere st in allaying it, and that there had been no long continued existence of grievances which called upon us to system. Now h e thought that the a nd Learned Member did great injustice to the m em b er s who had advocat e d C at h o li c emanc i pa ti on , a nd departHnn. from the olden to that great cause itself, if he argued that that-great question had been granted merely because agitation and excitement had existed 'Upon the subject for a number of years. He (Mr. Grant) had fin. years been the ad vocate of Catholic emancipation; but he denied that i n a dvocating it he argued for it as a mere question of time. He advocated Catholic emancipation because he co nsidered it a cause f oun d e d upon t h e great pr i n . eiples of justice ; and though in that instance, as in the present, he acknowledged that they should attend to the discontents, and give a patient and willing ear to the petitions of the people, he was the advocate of both mea sures, because he believed in his conscience that they were both based upon justice.—(Hear.) While the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was so severe upon the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for Ireland for referring to the settlement of the Catholic question as he hail done, as a orncitleman, that parallel case, he seemed- to forget this—that in the speech which he had made on this occasion against Reform, and which had been so powerfnlly cheered by Hon. Gentletnen the of the House, he had furnished an exact were ee employedergen ts ag S a Nih ns ic t il e h m e a n n o c w ipa e t m in p n l , oy a e n d d , opposite side cheered with &phi vociferation by the en opposite. Did it not strike the Hon. and now used against Reform, he had furnished in the arguments and the lan guageLgurt r O eloi a t ni rc h t .nh o b eG p s e ‘d e a vwe r in t O G : e v i p tt l e h .ei r eet e n i h e an exact fete simile fin- those which had been urged against C a tholic eman c i pat i on ? One would think -that he had ransacked the d e b a t es on th e C at h o li c gum walked over h t well fought field," gti o o n a e ,..N. ov t e b r at an ia d e had and had taken up the errant shafts, and had thrown them against that shield which had so often repelled them.— (Cheers.) The Hon. Member had given them fine-spun passages about the glories of Cressy and Poictiers, and had spoken of them as if they were the effects of the close borough system. But there he was also anticipated upon the Catholic question. It was a standing topic on that question, In every discussion of it we were referred to the deeds recorded in our history; we were referred to the wars we heel sustained,—to the triumphs which we had achieved,—to the struggles which we bad maintained,—we referred to all those things, which we were toll had made us the "envy and admiration of the world," and we were asked, would we permit aught of innovation upon a Ctsnstitut:on under which the country had witnessed such a cat err of prospe rity and glory? Such absurd arguments were repudiated, as they ought to have been, in the case of the Catholic question ; and, they ought to act now as they had thee;— they ought to do justly and righteously, and not to attend to arguments drawn from the armoury of antiquated opi ohms and exploded prejudices. The most remarkable pa rallel between the Hon. Member's arguments against this question, and those which had been urged against Ca tholic emancipation, was this,—the opponents of R. form said to the friends of the measure, " You talk of clamour, and violence, and. agitation, but we tell you that you your selves are the cause of it." That was the cry of the Hon Member on this occasion, but how of-en had they not been condemned to hear the same argument urged,agaiust eman cipation ? The standing topic then was, in answer to the advocates of emancipation,—. You talk of the agitation of the people, but you have no right to talk of it, the causes of it are of your own producing." Let him tell the Hon. and Learned Gentleman that that was then the favourite argument, and the favourite doctrine with some of his allies on the present occasion. But what was the answer of the Right Hon. Baronet op posite to ths, when, to his immortal honour, lie took in hand the settlement of that great question ? He said in substance this,—" I ask not whence this discontent pro ceeds, but I say that it exists, and I t ecemmend you to take this measure for the removal of it." He (Mr. Grant) called upon the House to do the same now,—not to contend against the tempest which could not he thus assuaged, but to pour oil on the troubled waters, and thus to calm the storm. There was another argument em ployed against emancipation, which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had also called to his aid on this occesiore— They hid ken told, its reference to emancipation—" See the consequences of such a measure, behold the expecta tions which you will raise amongst the Catholics, and which it will be impossible to satisfy—they will call for an abolition of tithes—for an abolition of taxes, and for a separation from England altogether." Now that there existed in some quarters extravagant expectations with regard to Reform, he should not deny; but lie would repeat, in imitation of what hod been so eloquently and ably urged by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite in refer ence to emancipation, that the only way to defeat unrea sonable expectations and claims was to grant those that were reasonable.—(Cheers.)—They bad comae to that point; they were called upon to grant what was just and reasonable ; and let him tell them that the best mode to defeat extravagant hopes and expect etions, was not to defer any longer the granting that which was due to jus tice and the people, and that the giving to them that which they ought to have, was the true way to prevent them from seeking that which they ought not to have.— But they had heard another argument used on this occa sion, with regard to whit was termed the extreme cruelty of disfranchising not individuals but whole classes of persons. The very same argument was used with great force when the Hon. Metnher for Staffordshire introduced his Bill, in 1825, for disfranchising the 40s. freeholders of Ireland. Those who opposed that Bill, and Vie Right Hon. Baronet opposite amongst the number, argued in that way, and the Right H n. Baronet said that he could not consent to proceeding with such a sweeping measure of disfranchisement, anti that be could not at all consent to such a disfranchisement, without at least an examination into the causes that called for it. 'Four years after the Right Hon. Baronet commenced a similar Reform, not by adopting but by proposing a measure of similar dis franchisement without any examination whatever. The Right Hon. Baronet then did his duty in defiance of the taunts which were thrown out against him, and his Ma jesty's Government proceeded upon the same principle upon the present occasion. The Hon. and Learned Gen. denim opposite had dwelt upon the beautiful mechanism of the close borough system, and had spoken of it as if it were the real basis of the representation of the Commons House of Parliament. Now, he would ask, what view would any one who looked into our constitutional writers for his guides take of the system of our representation in the Commons' House of Parliament as it ought to exist ? Would he not be led to consider it as the full, efficient, and complete representation of the Cotnsnons of England, and not the representation of a part of the country ? Our constituent system in the House of Cosnmons was understood in the sense of our fathers, not to mean universal suf frage, but that representation of the country which was not only effectually but exclusively a popular representation, and that the Members representing that constituency in the Parliament, should not be the House of Commons merely, but the House of the whole Commons of England. That was what was understood by our ancestors when they spoke of the Commons of England. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had gone to the time of our Henries and Edwards, to find out, as he asserted, that the close borough system was the essential basis of the representa tive system ; and, reading our Parliamentary history in rather an extraordinary way, he maintained that the close borough system was a beautiful system, and that without the close boroughs the House of Commons could not ei ercise its constitutional functions. The Hon. Member, indeed, spoke of the King, Lords, and Commons, as if the two former constituted a portion of the third estate of the realm. The Han. Member for Callington had certainly used the same argument when he admitted that there were influences which had no connexion with the people of the country, which were, on the contrary, opposed to them, but which were and ought to be represented in that House. If that were the case, then they who read the theory of our Constitution in our hest writers, must suppose that this House bad forfeited that high character which had raised them to such an elevation in the eyes of all foreign nations. He would venture to say, without fear of con tradiction, that representation was a positive trust. If that were the case,—and he fancied that the position could not be disputed,—then it could not be denied that this House now stood, and had long stood, in what might be truly called a " false position ;" and in these days of growing light, intelligence, and education, it would be manifestly impossible for them to maintain thetnselves in that " false position" muck longer.—(Hear. )—lf the theory of our Constitution was right as it was delivered to us by our best constitutional writers, then our- present practice must be bad; and if the practice was correct, then it falsified the theory. He would refer fur that theory to Blackstone, De Lolme, and every writer upon the English Constitution; and if it was possible for him to refer to any treatise of the Learned Gentleman opposite upon Constitutional law, be was sure that the Learned Gentleman, writing like a lawyer, would. propound a similar theory. Why the very, forms and proceedings of that House proved that it was in its Con stitution mainly, essentially, exclusively, and entirely po pular. On the first day of the, Session they depute their Speaker to der - Boni from the Crown a full liberty of speech, and that it shall riot interfere with their proceed ings. On the first darof the Session they pass a resolu tioti 'that no - Pecr . ohg,ht to have any influence in that House; and .-the very foims with regard to election peti tions, Committees, &c. proved the soundness of the doc trine that that was essentially the House of the people. The cage and caution which the other House exercised in respect to interfering with money bills, established that doctrine. This was a theory of the Constitution of the Comtnons House of Parliament, as well known to the people of England as it was to them. The present state of knowledge—the immense diffusion of education owing . to the establishment of innutnerable schools—was such, that the majority of the population of England were fully able to understand the theories of Blackstone and De Lolme on the subject. At a general election, in deed, the Members of that House, Whig as well as 1 ery, admitted the soundness of that theory to their consti tuents, and it would not now do to tell them that the prac tice was one thing end that the theory was another : it would not do to tell theM that the theory of Blackstone and of our best constitutional lawyers was one of yester day, and that the practice of which they complained was founded on the wisdom of ages.—(Hear, hear.) Their theory and their practice were thus viciously opposed to c the one they were generating evils, for which a theory precluded th e i r o nly remedy.—(Hear.) e other their ; by The happy mean which policy would point out between the qUid uttima 'libertate on the one hand, and the quid ultima servitute on the other, would by them be lost sight of'S leaving them only a choice between the worst conse quences of either. Would they imitate the blind obsti nacy of the rulers of a neighbouring State in their oppo sition to the just demand of an intelligent people ? Let them recollect that the despicable aid which 500,000 legionaries and an-armed prwtorian band in the heart of a m e tropolis afforded to those rulers was discarded in thill happy country, and that wise and temperate concessions to justice were the best preservatives of social order.— And what was it they would oppose ? Why nothing more than a measure for uniting in the closest bonds die wea'th and intelligence of the State to the Constitu tion.-ee(ii. at%) In the treipbatic language of Lord Plun• . kett on another occasion, let them recollect that "if they separated wealth and intelligence frets the State, wealth and intelligence would destroy the State."—(Hear, hear.) But peril qts our opponents would, in the crude spirit f meet of their assertion', maintain that the wealth and • intelligence will not be unitt.d to stet existing institutions by the present mereotre.—('t Hear," from the Oppositisn Beaches. )—Well, the - o, shat is the test? Let them look to the lest returns made under the property tax, and they wig firl that the large mass of the returns were for pro p rty undt r 5001.—(Hear) —the holders of which consti tote the great ;rider, so to speak, of our national in ti,lligence and prosperity, --(Hear. )—This most important body will be wedded to the maintenance of our institu tions by the measure now under discussion, and by doing this we are converting into our most powerful allies against those innovations and revolutionary evils which our opponents would fain peranade the House would be the censequenee of it, those who would be irresistible in effecting the rashest innovations.—(Hear, hear.)—When they considered, moreover, the hourly increasing know ledge of the middle climes, and their hourly incieewing ssnie of their own rights and importance in the state, they ' would pause before they would alienate them from all that is wi'e, and just, and beneficent in the Constitution, in refusing to remedy the gross abuses which time and cir cumstance had ing:afmd on it. He would not say alit they would at once declare themselves in hoetire array against that House in the event of its reje \ cting the present caneessions to their just demands ; but they would stand aloof from them—they would hang upon and impede the chariot wheels of the Government, till sooner or liter they would arrest its course, and, as with the Egyp tian host of old, all would be overwhelmed and lost iu die gnat flood of anarchy that would rush upon them irre eistibiy,—(l-lear, hear.) Toe Hon. and Learned Gentle man next proceeded to observe, with reference to the ob servetions of the Hon. Member fur Drogheda, who spike last, on the fact, that Mr. Grattan, and Mr. Floral, and other Irish patriots, who had in 1782 effected the commercial indeeendence of their country, had nevertheless great dia•ulty in getting into Paoli intent, that be thought the Hon. Member's arguments told quite contrary to tiie inference. It was true that Mr. Grattan and Mr. Flood found difficulty in obtaining a seat, notwithstanding the patriotic exertions to which Hardy, in his _Life of Char lemont, alludes; but why did they? Simply liscause time representation then in force in Ireland was so essentially one of close boreughs.—(Hear, hear.) Under a better state of things, in which the wealth and intelligence of the country would have their due weight in the election of representatives, such illustrious statesmen and orators could have no difficulty in being returned to Parliement, and were only impeded by the close borough system which the Hon. Member would hold out to adtniration as the means of procuring men of talent a seat in that House, and pc triot statesmen an asylum in the event of a temporary un popularity.—(Hear.) Another argument—if argument it might be called that argument was none—of the Hon. Member was still more groundless. The lion. Member asked, under the new system, what was to become of the West India, and the East India, and other colonial inte rests, which at present were virtually though not directly represented ? lie would give the lion. Member a simple answer,—the representation would remain unaltered.— (Hear, hear.) If they looked over the list of the bo roughs proposed to be disfranchised, they would find that they were not represented by either East or West India virtual representatives. Four East India Directors sat in that House for places which the preseet measure • would not affect—(Hear, hear)—and the West India it,- ter, st had one of the members for Buckinghantsbare, for Sandwich, for Rochester, for Crickdale, and for Fawn fries : all of which places.would remain untouched by his Noble Friend's Bill.—(Hear.) This showed how easily a quasi plausible case was destroyed upon accurate inquiry ; and bow easy, till such inquiry was made, it was to vamp up a specious fallacy as a kind of argument.—(lit.ar, hear.) Before he sat down he could not help expressing his sur prise—to use a mild term—at the sneers of the lion. Member for Newport, at the middle classes of society in this c tuntry.—(Hear, hear.) The lion. Member quitted certain expressions contained in Ecclesiasticus, respecting the usefulness of at tisane "to be sought for in the public counsels, or placed in a seat of judgment," as a portion uf the sacred scripture. But this was—as perhaps the. Hoc. Member was too dignified to learn—(Hear, and a laugh) —an error. The passage quoted by the Hun. Member was a part of the Apocrypha—(Hear, hear)—and like the argument founded upon it, was spurious and apocryphal. _(Hear, hear.) There were other points which be would, at a future occasion, offer a few Observations upon. . At present he would only call upon the opponents of the great and most beneficent measure they were discussing to reflect on the course they were pursuing. Toe clamour which had been so long raised, and with too much suc cess, against the Catholic Relief Bill, had yielded to the wisdom of experience ; showing that hunian pre science, even in the wisest, and the most confidently pro phetic of the evils of the present measure, amongst them was not infallible : so would it sooner or later, with re spect to the stiil greater question of Reform.—(Hear, hear.) Let them grant the people their just rights—(Loud cries of " hear")—for so far from its following that therefore a concession of their unjust demands must be the consequence, he maintained that by granting what was just and right, they strengthened themselves against the , encroachments of what was unjust and not right.— (Hear.) By doing so, they would, be acquitted in their own consciences, and might with confidence leave their fame to their country, and the event to Providence. Mr. O'CONNELL then troved the further adjournment of the debate to to-morrow, this day. Several Hon. Members objected. Lord ALTHORP said that he trusted that if the debate was then adjourned, it would be on the understanding that it was to be brought to a close this evening.—(Cries of " hear, hear," and " No, no.") The debate was then adjourned to this day. ARRANGEMENT FOR THE SECOND READING OF THE REFORM BILL. Thu Marquis of CHANDOS wished to ask the Noble Lord what arrangement he proposed us to the second reading ? Lord ALTHORP was desirous that the second reading should he arranged so that there should be full time before the Easter recesv. lie therefore intended to propose that the second reading should take place on next Monday se'nnight. The measure would then have been before the public for nearly three weeks, and be thought that that was ample time. The Marquis of CHANDOS said that be could not agree to such an arrangement ; and if the Noble Lord persis!ed in putting off the second reading to so long a period, he should take that course, which, as a Member Parli•unect, he had a right to do. Lord EIIRINGTON—I beg to ask my Noble Relative what that course is?—(Tremendous cheers. )—Hebas asked my Noble Friend a question on courtesy, and I therefore trust that be will extend the same courtesy to me. The Marquis of CHANDOS would tell his Noble Re lative the course he intended to pursue, if the second read ing of `the Bill was delayed longer than that day week ; he should, when the Mutiny Bill and Supplies were brought forward, use that privilege, which his Noble He • lative was well aware he had the power of doing.—(A laugh, and hear, hear.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM—I think, Sir, that after the threat of the Noble Mirquis, I cannot do better than avail myself of the present opportunity of moving the third read- ing of the Mutiny Bill.—(Continned cheering.) t On the question being put from the Chair, An HoN. Mk:sit:Ea stated that the late Secretary at War (Mr. Wynn) had informed him that very evening that he should not move the third reading of the Mutiny Bill till Thursday or Friday. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that, under those circum stances, he would consent to postpone the third reading to this day, when the Secretary at War would be in his place, and an opportunity be afforded for any subsequent arrangement. Mr. WATSON presented a petition from Canterbury, praying that the House will sanction the measure of Re form brought forward by his Majesty's Ministers. !FIB stated that all the accounts which he had received that morning from the country, expi eased the highest approba tion of the measure, and that as an enemy to radical and revolutionary principles,,he should give hi s suppor t on th e present occasion to hi s Ma j est y as he believed the plan which they had submitted to Parliament to I a just, necessary, and conservative. The Marine Bill, after a few words from Sir E. Knateh bull, Sir James Graham, Mr. Goulburn, and Lord Al thorp, was read a third time and passed. The other Orders of the Day were then dispcsA of, and the house adjourned at Ha'f-past One. ANECDOTE.—The Duchess of M A RL BOROUGH, at her evening conversations, eccssiona!ly covered her head with her handkerchief, and was then sup posed to be asleep. She was in that state one evening, xt a time at 'which she was much displeased with her g rand' :- 's u ti n ti d , e t i h t tin i e A i n 1 fi r. u J e o n c H e ti o S f P i‘ E i ti r. o forF F :l4. o , x, w a h c o. t ; e at ' exc Waloods. . 1 1 Ott 4 t rgai ► iii!r.l!!;.,, goo.o Y 7-- The sAtrchmontPaAers. as rt sb t e i c l e e nlived rtt tinned, she en