The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-20 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HO USE OF COiIMONS, MAlcm 19* The House met at lour o'clock • but in consequence of this being the day fixed for balloting for the Committee to try the merits of the petitions against the return for the city (if Norwich, and the return for the county of :Longford, the gallery was not opened until nearl, five o'clock. Sir H. PARKER brought in a Bill to enclo'e certain waste lands in the parish of L yfirltl (as we undervood) in the county of Suffolk, which was read a first time. Mr. KEMP obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the better supplying the town of Lewes with water. On the motion of Mr. PENDARVES, the Helston (Cornwall) Road Bill was real a third time, and passed. Mr. DYSON appeared at the bar, with a list of the following Members to form the Norwich Election Com mittee :—Sir H. Willoughby, O'Connor Don, G. E. Wdby, W. B. Baring, J. P. B. Chichester, C. S. Lefevre, J. M. Talbot, R. Pigott, J. Halse, W. Tavleure, and B. Hoskins. Having been sworn well and truly to try the merits of the petition, they retired. On the motion of Mr. MOSTYN, the Abergele Road Bill was read a second time. Mr. HODGSON obtained leave to bri❑g in a Bill to improve the road from Gateshead to Hexham. CARMARTHEN ELECTION. The SPEAKER acquainted the House, that J. Hughes and John Lawrence, who had petitioned against the return for the hor.ugh of Carmarthen, hanot entered into the requiiite recoznizinces to prosecute the petition. The order for taking the petition into consideration was then discharced. General PALMER presented a petition from Bath, for the better observance of the Lord's Day. Si H. PALMER presented sev , ral petitions from places in the county of Soff,dlt, in favour of a better ob servance of the Lord's Day, and for a repeal of the duties ua taxed carts. Mr. DYER appeared at the bar with a list of the names constituting the Committee to try the merits of the petition against the return for the county of Longford; they were sworn at the Bar, and then retired. Mr. RIBBON presented a petition from the inhabi tants of the town of Gateshead, in favcur of Borough Reform ; also a petition from a dissenting congregation, 40; Newcastle•upon-Tyne, praying fur the abolition of kievro slavery. Cap'ain YORKE rose to call the attention of the House to a private Bill, having for its object the enclosure of certain Finds in the parish of Oikington, in the county of Cambridge, which, in con sequence of some informality in the usual notice posted on the church doors, had been thrown out by the Committee. Tt.e Hon. and Gallant Member referred to some precedents on the ground of which he hoped the House would be in duced to relax the strictness of its rules, as notice had now been given, that the Bill might now he proceeded with, in order to save unnecess try expense to the parishioners. After a few words from Mr N. Calvert, Mr. Hume, Mr. S. Rice, Sir Thomas Fremantle, and Lord Morputb, leave was given to bring in the MIL Sir ROBERT INGLIS brought up ea report of the Committee on Public 1 3, titions.—Ordered to be prin•ed. Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE moved for certain returns re lative to courts of requests. Mr. PUME gave notice that to-morrow he would move that any Member presenting a petition should attach his name to it. NEGRO SLAVERY. The Speaker having called on Mr. Fowell Buxton, Lord ALTHORP rose, for the purpose of requesting his Hon. Friend not to bring forward the motion of which be bad given notice, relative to negro si,very, on tt , e present occasion. He (Lord Ai thorp) con•idered it very disadvantageous that such is question as this, when Ministers were preparing a Bill upon the subject, should be brought forward in the way no • proposed by the Hon. Memb-r. He consi dered it, besi , es, disadvantageous to the question itself, while it did not place the House in a very de sirable position : he Cher-fore asked the Hon. Member to postpone his motion, of which be had given notice, until he had hear , the measure to be brought foi ward by his Majesty's Mi. i.r-r-. bt r. F. BUXTON slid no Nlerober was more convinced than he was that it would he better that this great ques tion should be intrusted to t e hands of Government, ra ther than he p , aced in the hands of any I rivate individual Blemb-r. 11.- had always been ready, and he was so still, to surrender it into their bards on two conditions— first, that they were prepared with a plan for the entire and I , ,tnediate extinction of slavery ; and, secondly, that they would name the day on which they would in 'et oduce it into the House.—(Hear, hear.) Ills conduct might appear to bolder on obstin icy, but he could assuie the Noble Lind that he had no intention to interfere improperly with G.varnment; but he would ask what would lie the efi-ct, at present, of postponing the motion. Why, there would not be a day on which he could bring forward the motion before the month of June; and et that period there stood numberless other questions of importance to be brought under the consideration of the House. The question was one of such great importance that it must not only he agitated, but set•led, by legislation, as, if it was not, he was very much afraid it would be settled in another and much more disastrous manner. However obstinate he might appear, he must repeat that, if Go vernment did not fix the day on which they proposed to bring forward their measure on this subject, he roust proceed immediately to state the object of his motion. Load ALTHORP observed, that the lion, Member had stated two conditions ou which he consented to postpone his motion. With respect to one of them it was utterly jeipeasible for him to comply, but, :is to the other, :mely, the fixing of a day on which his Ma jesty's Government would bring forward their measures on the subject, if that would satisfy the Honourable Member, he had no objection to mention Friday, the 23d of April, for that purpose. If on that understanding the Hon. Member would withdraw his motion for the present he should be glad, but he could not state at present what the plan Government intended to bring forward would be. Mr. F. BUXTON said, that lie had rather overstated his meaning, when he said the entire extinction of slavery. He was quite satisfied with the promise of the Noble Lord, and was perfectly content to withdraw his motion fur the present. BEER-HOUSES. The Marquis of CHANDOS, on being called on by the SPEAKER, rc.se to move the appointment of a S,dect C. mmittee on the state and management of beer-houses. Lord AL'FfIORP did not rise for the purpose. of ob jecting to the motion of which the Noble Marquis had given notice ; but as it was one that would certainly create consider able discussion; and as it would interfere with other subj , ets of great importance, he trusted the Noble Lord would not at present bring it forward. The Marquis of CHANDOS said, th at as Govern ment were not opposed to the appointment of a Committee, and as it would interfere with other subjects of great public importance, be would, in compliance with the wish of the Noble Lord, withdraw his motion for the present. Mr. PRYME felt bound, tinder the circumstances of the business of the House, to postpone his notice of motion relative to the insertion of a provision in every Enclosure Bill. allotting a certain portion of land to be let. Mr. J. ROMILLY wished, with the permission of the House, simply to move for leave to bring in a Bill to r,,dke freehobi and copyh“ld estates, in all cases of assets for t e payment of simple interest debts. 'Lord ALTHORP put it to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, to consider whether his motion would not raise a discussion, which would prevent them doing any business in Committee on' i the Irish Disturbances Bill to a Mr. J. ROMILLY said, that he did not wi.h to raise a thseussion, but simply to move for leave to bring in the Bill. Mr. GOULBURN asked the Hon. and Learned Member, whether his Noble Friend (Marquis of Chatidos) bad postponed his Bill, under the impression that tl,e House was to proceed to the Committee immediately, he would make a motion which could not hut raise a discussion as it did ten years ago. Mr. HUME really did not see how the Bill of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman should be postponed on account of a Bill which, by common consent, was not at all wanted.—(oh, uh ! and lauchter.) For his part he would rather postpone the Truck Bill than this. The Marquis of CHANDOS said he had certainly postponed his motion, in anticipatio❑ of other gentlemen doing the same. J. ROMILLY then consented to withdraw hie motion. SABBATH. Sir A AGNEW then rose to move for time to bring in a Bill for enforcing the he ter observ ance o f the Sab bath, and stated some reason s for persisting in making the exampl e set hinty other his motion, notwithstanding Hon. Alembers, but in so luvv a tone of voice as to be quite insurlitil , in the g Lord ALTHORP begged the Hon. Member to po.tpone hi. motion, as it i.ould not fail to lead to adiacus-mn. W Sir ANDREW AGNE persisted in makin g it amidst murmurs of eisap, rob Awn trout the House. The motion was lir leave to toting in a Bail for he better ob servance or tr e Sibbdth. Lora A LTHURP stated that the Hon. Member for Bridport iturrully) had had just the same grounds !or persisting as the Hon. Baronet, but still postponed hi. motion, as had other Hon. Gentlemen. In justice to those gentlemen who had complied with his request, he must mo ve t h e a dj ournment of t h e d e b ate on t h e mot ion of the Hon. Gentleman. The motion was put, which was immediately fo'hiwed by cries of " Withdraw, withdraw." Sir ANDREW AGNEW stated that, in deference to the House, he would for the present withdraw his motion. Mr. GUEST moved for the appointment of a Select Committee to take into consideration the amount of Palm ies, allowances, and emoluments received by the public officers and servants of both Houses of P.ili iinent, whether paid salaries or fee., and to report thereon. Lord ALTHORP made an observation or two, which was followed by a short conversation between himself and Mr. GUEST, but which was perfectly inaudible in the gallery. In the result we understood the motion to be withdrawn till late in the evening. Mr. O'CONNELL moved for leave to bring in a Bill to repeal so much of the Act 34th Geo. 111., as imposes a penalty on the masters of ve,sels lying in the river Liffey, for having fires on board, and to amend the said Act. The Hon. 31mber would not persist in his motion at this time, if there was any objection whatever to it. Mr. STANLEY did not think there would be any ob jection on the p irt of Government to the bringing in of such Bill, but he submitted to the Hon. and Learned Member whether it would not he better fur him to post pone his motion tilt a later period in the evening. Mr. O'CONNELL had much pleasure in acceding to this prop. sition. Mr. O'DWYER moved for a continuation of the return of the number of British officers who had been removed by courtemat tial from the army, and also the names znd ground of removal of such officers. He trusted there would be no objection to this return on the part of Government. Mr. HUME seconded the motion. He did not think that this motion was similar to those that had been made on the subject before, and had been refused. He agreed ' with the propriety of the Hon. Member moving for a re turn of the ground of removal, and, indeed, this appeared to him to be of the greatest importance.--(Hear.) He had no doubt that many Hon. Members were of opinion that officers, when they were sitting as judges in courrsmartial were perfectly independent, and could do just what they pleased. For his own part he entertained a contrary opinion, and by the return now moved for he thought it would now be seen that many deserving men had been improperly struck off tie army list, and de prived of their means of subsistence, without any just cause whatever. There was no doubt that the officers who sat in those courts were made to act in accordance with the wishes of their superiors. Sir J. HOBHOUSE agreed with the Hon. Member who seconded this motion, that it was of a different nature to those that had been made before, but it was one to which he certainly should have decided objections. He had no objection to a continuation of a return of the number of offic,rs who had been removed, but if the Hon Mem• ber persisted in applying for the names of such officers, and grounds for removal, lie trusted lie would follow the example already set him by one or two Hon. Members, of rstponit g that which was likely to give rise to a de bate to a late period of the evening. Mr. O'DWYER thought his motion intimately con nected with the Bill now before the House, but in accord. mace with the suggestion just made, he would postpone the motion. DISTURBANCES SUPPRESSION (IRELAND) BILL Lord ALTHORP moved the order of the day for the Hou.e going into a Committee on this Bill. Mr. T. ATTWOOD rose to move his amendment, to the effect that all further proceedings on this Bill be suspended until the remetii,ti measures which had been disclosed by his M jesty's Government hail becom• law. It was his opi nion th a if the House passed the Irish Disturbances 13111 ft , st, it would be vei y lone before they would s.e those remedial measures produced ; and it would afford him ouch pl-ssore to is,e Ministers fulfil all their pledees. Tne SPEAKER inti-rrup!ed the lion. Member, and . _ informed him that he hari taken a wrong opportunity for effecting his object. The present tray not the proper time to mike such an amendment. An HON AIEILIER wishoi to 8•k whether it was the intention of his Atij-sty's &ivernment to institute any iminefliat e measure respecting the Exei.e Laws, and it so whether it was intended to include Scotland in any such measure ? Lord ALTHORP Panted that his Majesty's Government had appointed a commission to examine into the st-tte of the Excise Laws, and the management of the Excise Duties, and that, in any m more which might be introdur.-d. Scothind would he included. Mr O'CONNELL wi+).4l to put a question which was mo e inurnedia'ety connected with Ireland. Looking at th, present condition of that country, it would be 11-esirable to know whether his Rlajesty'.l Government had now under their consideration any measure for the establishment of poor laws applicable to it. If they had not, he would during the evenine give notice that he would move for the appointment of a Select Committee to consider whether a safe and effectual plan of poor laws could be adopted tow ,rds Ireland. Lord ALTHORP stated that his M jesty's Govern• meat had no such plan at present under their considera tion, nor did lie think they would be able to do anything wi , h it this sessi,.n. Mr. O'CONNELL observed that during the evening be w..u11 bring the snbj,-ct again forward. Mr. T. ATTWOOD rote for the purpose of moving as an amendment that the further consideration of the Irish Coercive Bill be postponed until the remedial mea sures announced by Ministers had bt en passed into law. The House had now sat for six weeks, and as nearly as he could recollect, he believed it had be n occupied nine- tenths of that time on the Irish measures. non; he consi dered there was more danger and disturbance in England than in Ireland. When he considered the great distress of the people, and the prevalent exasperation of mind that prevailed, he could not but see great danger in ab sorbing the time of the House with Irish questions, to the total neglect of English measures of amelioration.—( Hear.) Ireland was comparatively at the present moment in a peaceable state ; the ass zes were going on well, and con victions were taking place in the ordinary course of the law; and there was, in fact, no necessity for the coercive measures now proposed by Government.—(Cries of " Oh, oh.") He trusted Hon. Members would see the propriety of postponing the Irish Coercive Bill until the remedial measures were passed ; at all events the two kinds of measures should proceed pari passu. side by side ; if nor, his firm belie! was that the remedial mea• sores would nev,r be passed ; and it was most de sirable and necessary that the great business of the English nation should be proceeded with. He did not mean to put the House to the trouble of a division, but he wished to record his sentiim-nts in favour of the amendment, which he concluded by moving. Mr HUME seconded the amendment, on the ground that he Ind been opposed to the introduction of the Coercive Bill at the beginning. There was no other way, when he looked at the time it had already occupied, and the longer time it must still take up, of getting rid of it than by postponing it, according to the Hon. Member's (Mr. Att wood's) amendment, until the remedial measures were passed into law. Everything proved that the Bill was uncalled for, it had been improperly introduced, and further delay would satisfy the House that it was unne cessary for the peace of the country. The SPEAKER then put the question, when Mr. STANLEY rose. He could not tell from what source the Honourable Member for Birmingham had received his information of the state of Ireland —(Hear, hear)—from which he implied that that country had returned to a state of tranquillity, but the in formation which he had received officially was that the disturbed districts were increasing daily, and although at many of the assizes, convictions bad been had, outrages were increasing rapidly. That was to be attributed to the delay that had taken place in the progress of the Bill through that House. He trusted that the same reason which had induced the House to allow the introduction of the measure would also weigh with it in giving Ministers an. opportunity of p issing it without delay, by that means giving to Ireland that se curity and protection which it had not at the present moment. Mr. HARVEY said if he could bring his mind to believe that the motion which had been brought before the House by the Honourable Member for Birmingham, would lead to its adoption, he would give it his umst hearty support ; hut from what had passed in that House, he thought it would be apparent to every Hon. Member that such would not be the result. He trusted, there fore, 'hat those Hon. Members who had given their opposition to the me (sure would now give way, as it was quite apparent that all attempts were vain, by that means allowing Ministers to press firward the measure, and take all the responsibility of it en their own shoulders. No one entertained more decided hostiliry th e . he did to the introduction of tee Irish Bill, and he only advised the adoption of such a course by Irish Mein era, because he was fully convinced that the conflict Was llgriesS. Mr. O'CONNELL con'idered it an unpardonable dere liction of' ht, lU y tf lie allowed any part of the Conch u non of the lsnd to be tr4inpled down even under the plea of n , cessity—and at present that excuse had no founda tion in truth—without liftin g up his voice, and appealing to the House not to permit it. They were about to go into that clause which proposed the suspension of the trial by jury, and with respect to that clause he would say that be intended to propose no amendment, but to object to the whole of it. He would try the main question. whether there were to be courtsmartial or no courtsmartial. He again begged to deny that outrages had increased in Ire land ; but he would tell the House, from sure information he had lately obtained, that since the announcement of the present Bill great disgust was caused among the upper and middle classes against the existing Government. H e mentioned this to the Houle in order to warn them how Vey consented to a measure the probable effects of which would be to cause a servile war in Ireland. He reminded them that the country they were about to offend was no Isle of Wight or Dian, but a country of 8,000,000 in• haiiitants, as powerful and as brave as any nation of the same extent. Upon the heads of those who passed the measure be the con equenees of so doing ; he had done his duty when he cautioned them to beware, and when he announced to them the abhorrence of the upper classes at the present projected Bill. Those classes had enforced the law with the utmost rigour, and there was not the least shrinking of Jurors at the present assizes. On the contrary, there had not been for some years so great an attend ince of Jurors as there was this year. Mr. H. GRA f TAN also entered his protest against being interdicted opposing the present Bill. If it passed, the upper classes in Ireland would feel themselves most ',risibly wounded, in being reduced as it were into utter insignificance, by the introducti in of courtsmartial. Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON coincided with the remarks trade by the two last Hon. and Learned Wm bers. It was their duty to amend the Bill, if possible, and the time for doing so was whilst it was passing through the CAnmittee. The amendment was then negatived without a division, and the House went into a Committee on the Bill. The CHAIRMAN was about to read the 9th clause, when— Mr. STANLEY said, that they were now about to arrive at that clause which extended to proclaimed districts those engines which Government thought it n, ces• &try to employ with respect to public meetings i❑ those districts. In framing the clauses one and nine, Govern ment thought fit to make a distinction between those dis tricts which were proclaimed and those which were not. In districts rot proclaimed, the power was given to sup press meetings which might be thought dangerous to the puhlic peace, but in other cases meetings in such districts might be legal. In proclaimed districts it was thought necessary to go a step further, and prevent any meeting from being held for the purpose of petitioning about alleged grievances, and descanting on topics tending to inflame the minis of the people. These meetings were to be considered prigla facie dangerous, unless they had previously obtained the sanction of the Lord-Lieutenant. When this precise matter had been already before the House, the Hon. Member for Galway had made some ex ception with respect to meetings convened by the consti tutional authorities, such as the Lord-Lieutenant or the High Biiliffs of counties. He would now. state what it was the intention of Government to do with respect to those clauses. They proposed to insert a new clause to follow the ninth, which world more cle rely point out •he distinction drawn between districts disturbed and those which were not. This new clause be would propose when the ninth had been disposed of—" Provided also, and be it enacted, that nothing in this Act shall extend, or be con idered to extend, to prohibit or enable the Lord-Lieu tenant er other chief governor or governors of Ireland, to prohibit in any county, county of a city, or county of a town, whether in a proclaimed district or' elsewhere, in Ireland, any meeting which shall be duly convened by the Sheriff or Lieutenant of such county, or by the Lieutenant or Chief Magistrates of such county of a city or county of a toe n." This proviso was to extend equally to districts pr claimed and those which were rn.t, and its oject ra as not to prevent parties from publicly expres-ing their unbiassed opinions.—(Hear, hear, hear.) There was to be another provi-o—" Provided, neverthel, es, that in any proclaimed district, it shall net be lawful fur any person, not tieing a resident of the county, barony, half birony, parish, or district for which such meetinc shall he convened, to take part in or be present at any such meeting, and that any person trking part in or being present at such meeting, and not being resident as afore-aid (save and except any such Magistrates, con stables, or other persons charged with the preservation of the peace), shall be deemed or taken to be gui!ty of a mis demeanor." These were the insertions intended to he made of er the ninth clause, and he trusted they would ove satis'actory to all parties. Mr. FINN suggested that it miv.ht be lawful for per sons holding a certain amount of property in proclaimed districts, though not resident in them, to be present at such mee•ing+. Mr. STANLEY said, that the Hon. Member's sugges tion should be taken into eons deration. The ninth clause having then been put, Mr. HALL had given notice of an amendment, but with the permission of the House, he would withdraw it. O'CONNELL was not at 411 disß , s , ll to encourage public meetings in proclaimed districts, but he begged leave to observe, that the districts most disturbed at pre , ent were those in which public meetings were not held. On the contrary, in the districts and towns where public meetings had been htld, there had been no disturbance. He would cite Dublin as an instance of the truth of his assertion. He thought that ten days' notice of any meet ing ought to be sufficient, anti that the consent in writing of the Lori Lieutenant was totally superfluous. It, after ten days' nom e, the Lord Lieutenant did not re fuse his consent to the holding of a meeting, it might be considered that he had given his tacit consent. He would not divide the House upon the tnatter. The SOLICITOR GENERAL thought it much better to have the written consent of the Lord-Lieutenant, than allow people to remain in an uncertainty after they had given ten days' notice of the meeting, whether they were to be allowed to hold it or not. The amendment was negatived without a division. The ninth clause was then agreed to. On the tenth clause having been put, Mr. STANLEY said, that belore they went into the consideration of this clause, he felt it incumbent on him to lay before the House several material provisions that h id been resolved on, which, without diminishing the efficiency of the Bill, would meet the objections that Hon. Melilla:l.a connected with Ireland had made to it. Those provisions were made in older to render military tribunals as little liable to be abused as possible. Two or three of t- are modifications had been made, and already mentioned to the House. The first was the removal from courts martial of officers of low standing and little experience. This was done by not permitting on courtsmartial any officets who had not ob•ained the rank of Gain tin. He would announce another more important alteration. Great objections had been made that the officers of those tribunals, whose duty led them to hunt a ter culprits, and who, after being harassed night and day, mieht conic to those tribunals without that impartiality and coolness that persons in a judicial capacity ought to possess. To meet those objections, it was thought expedient that no officer on active regimental duty should sit on those courtsmartial, before whica he might be instrumental of having offender,' tried. The third alteration bad been proposed by his Noble Friend beside him, and required that there should be a greater majority for conviction than the fa r majority of ordinary courtsinartial. That, besides, they should not have the power of passing sentence of death, and could not take cognizance of capital offences. When it was a full court martial of nine, seven of it+ members should be unani mous ; and when the courtmartial consisted of seven members, or less, it was necessary that five should concur in their sentence. He would here allude to a letter that had been real by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, from a son of Sir Edward Crosby, thanking the lion. and Learn e d M em b er for having vindicated his and confirming th e Ho n . an d L earne d Member's s t atements. The son of Sir Edward had au thorized him (Mr. Stanley) to contradict pubdcly the as sertions said to be contained in this letter, and had already contradicted them himself in the public prints. The Hon. and Learned Memb e r for Dublin had read what had been sent to him, he had no doubt. But the son of Sir E. Crosby denied his having wished any lion. Member to vindicate his father's memory, whilst he had sufficient proofs of being able to do so himself. Above all things, that gentleman did not desire that his father's innocence should be contaminated, as he deemed it would, by mixing it up with matters that related to political agitation. The amendment which he had to move would do away with the danger of any such i injustic e , b ecause no sentence what ever could be put n execution by these tribunals except with the sanction of a higher tribunal, and even the 1 judgments of those tribunals could not be executed but by the authority of a tribunal higher than themselves. He sou d now beg the Committee to turn to the 15th clause of the Bill, to which his Majesty's Government meant to move some amendment. They thought that where they saw that amendments were necessary, or where they thought they could meet the wishes already expressed by gentleman, or making such amendment as in their opi nion did not depart from the principles on which the Bill was founded, they thought it best to propose the amend ments at once, than to wait till they arose incidentally in the course of the discussion. He would therefore beg of them to turn to the 15th clause, which provides, " That it shall arid may be lairful for every such courtmartial from time to time to issue such orders as to such court shall seem fit, for bringing before them any person charged by order of the Lord Lieutenant or other Chief Goy rnor or Governors of Ireland, or 'by some person duly autho • rized by him or them for that purpose, with any offence by this Act made cognizable by •ucli court, or for executing and carrying into effect any sentence, so con• firmed as aforesaid, of any such court respectively, which orders all sheriffs, justices of the peace gaolers, constables, officers and ministers of justice, and other persons to whom the same shall he directed, and who Fro the execution thereof shall rightfully and pro perly appertain, sh dl End are hereby required to execute, enforce, and obey." It had been objected to that clause, that it would he desirable that no executive power should be given to the courssmartial (he would use that name in speaking of these tribunals, though, strictly speaking, they were not courtsmartial in their constitution), and his Majesty's Government concurred in thinking that it would be proper to limit the jurisdiction of courtsmartial so far as that they should be judges of the fact and offence only— (llear)—and proposed, therefore, that instead of leaving it to courtsmartial, to throw the whole power and respon- sihility on the Lord-Lieutenant, or those persons directed by him, to bring persons accused of offences before courts martial, leaving to the courtsmartial the power only of taking cognizance of such cases as are brought before them. He would now go to the consider Aion of the class of offences to be brought before the courtsmartial. He admitted that it was desirable that no jurisdiction should be given to them which mieht interfere with ordinary civil processes, and it was therefore proposed by his Nlaje.ty's Gav"ernment, that all offences should be taken from under their jurisdiction which were not strictly of an insurrectionary character, or which were not accom panied with violence or threats of violence, or any case w!.ich involved complica•ed points of law—which it was always desirable should not be brought under the cognizance of a military tribunal. With that view they prop.ised to except Iroin the operation of the 17th clause of the Bill (which made persons liable to be prosecuted for offences contrary to the 27 Geo. III.) all offences, even if connected with conspiracy er insurrec tion, when these offences were coinmitted without violence or threat—(Hear, hear)—hut they not only intended to take from the courtsmartial the jurisdiction in that class of offences, but to take from them the jurisdiction in another class of offences, which were always nice and cornpli cated—acl they meant to take it from them whether the offences were connected with seditious matters or not—he meant the jurisdiction in questions of libel, because his Majesty's Alinisters thought that questions on the law of libel were nor, in any instance, fit to be brought before a military tribunal. They, therefore, proposed to exclude the 21st clause of the Bill, which gave them jurisdiction in cases of hoe!. He would, therefore, conclude by pro posing, that at the conclusion of thel7th clause, the follow• ing words should be inserted :—" Provided always anti be it enact d, that nothing in this Act be considered to give power or jurisdiction to any courtinartial to try any per son or persons charged, or to be charged, with publish ing, or causing to be published, or hawking, selling, or disposing of any seditious hand bill, paper, or pamphet, in am proclaimed district, or confederating or conspiring contrary to the provisions of an Act passed in the Parlia ment of Ireland, in the 27th year of the reign of George the Third, or for the trial of any civil right, unless such confederacy or combination shall be accompanied with force, or threat of force." By this amendment, they would not only include such offences as were not strictly insurrectionary, from the operations of this Bill, but also exclude such offences as were made capital under the Whiteboy Act; and persons guilty of such offences should then remain liable to the operation of Common Law. Having made these amendments, they tben proposed to alter the preamble of the tenth clause, and instead of the words, " and !Or the speedy and effectual trial and punish ment of the several offences mentioned or referred to in this Act," to insert—" And whereas the ordinary tribunals for the administration of justice in the proclaimed districts have been found inadequate for that purpose, and there fore," &e. He (Mr. Stanley) could say, that courts martial were likely to be put in requisition in very few districts, hut the power of having such tribunals at the disposal of Government would of itself be of great service, and would tend to prevent the necessity on the part of Governs .ent of putting the more rigorous parts of the Bill in execution. He had now stated the grou , ds and principles on which his Majesty's Government thought titems-fives justified in making the alterations which he had endeavoured to lay before the C-mmi,tee. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that if he had been aware of Cie statement made by the Right Hon. Secretary, he should have brought clown his letter book, in order that he might show the Right Hon. Gentleman and the House the letter from Sir Edward Crosbie's son, on which he had founded his statement. He begged to ask the Right Hon. Secretary the name of the son who had written to him ? Mr. STANLEY could not then say, but he would be able to tell hint to-morrow. It, however, was nut of much consequence, as the same statement had been sent to several of the Irish Papers, and appeared in them. The writ,r, however, stated himself to be the eldest son of Sir Edward Crn-hie. Mr. O'CONNELL said that the letter which he re ceived was dated "Liverpool," and signed " Edward Cro , bie," and that it contained a letter from the Rev. Archibald Douglas, Rector of Kilkelly, in Kildare. It mentioned that the writer was in distress. As Mr. Dou glas, was a clergy min high in the Church, and the brother-in-I.lw of an Irish Peer, he thought that he was justified in making use of it ; and it was impossible fur him to suspect that it did not contain a true account of the writer. Mr. STANLEY did not, in the slightest degree, im peach the statement of the Hun. and Learned Member. The writer had, however, requested of him to take an op. portunity of making the statement which it contained, in his place in that House, and he had accordingly done so. He did not know any of the parties concerned, fur ther than from the circumstance in question. General SHARPE rose to make a statement regard ing the courtmartial, which condemned Sir Edward Crosbie, and he was proceeding with the circumstances connected with it, when 111 r. STANLEY rose, and said, that as he had intro duced the subject (and that unwillingly) merely for the purpose of making the statement sent to him by a mem • ber of the family, he hoped it would niit be made a hook on which to hang a discus-iion on a subject which must be painful to she friends of the parties, and was quite irrele vant to the subject before the Committee. The preamble of the tenth clause, as amended, was then agreed to. The whole clause was then read from the Chair ; upon which Mr. C. FERGUSSON rose to oppose the whole of the clause. He would fail in doing justice to himself if he did not state that he considered the introduction as en tirely hostile to all the principles of the Cons itution. It took away the trial by Judge and Jury—that boast and safety of every Englishman. He admitted that a case might be made out, of such urgent necessity, as to justify the Government in doing away with trial by Jury for a time, but the consideration of such a case was not then im posed on them. He opposed the clause in the first place, because there was no precedent for such a measure. Not a letter, not a fact, not even the statement laid before the House by the Noble Lord, justified them in such a course.—(Heir.) It had been adinitt-d by the Noble Lord, and the fact ought never to be forgotten by the House, that the Noble Lord had not brought one case before them where jurors had not done their duty. And there was only one case brought in which it was attempted to show that jurors were intimidated or threatened. Ha begged the Committee to remember, that it was not suf ficient to justify such a measure as that before them to say, that jurors were afraid—(Hear)—(and even of that there was only one act adduced), bur it must also be made out that the jurors acted upon those fears.—(Hear, hear.) But no Hon. Member had ventured to state that in con sequence of that intimidation they had been induced to give a false verdict.—(Hear, hear.) He called, thee, upon the House to pause before they agreed to that clause —a clause which abolished the Trial by Jury, that boast of Englishmen, and delivered over a large portion of their fellow-subjects to the power of a military tribunal. It was not sufficient to say that there was a degree of insecurity of property in Ireland which was not felt in this country. Every man in Ireland felt that neither life nor property was so secure as it was in other countries ; but that was no sufficient apology for the abolition of the Trial by Jury.—(Llear, hear, hear.) In order to justify such a step, intimidation of the ju rors was likewise necessary. And what evidence bad been brought of that intimidation of jurors? Only one ca se—that of Carrickshock ; and any one reading over the evidence in that case, must feel that the Jury could not help feeling a di:ubt as to the verdict they should give. He thought, then, that he bad shown that there was no evidence on which to rest a case which would justify the abolition of trial by jury. He would, therefore, go into the consideration of the jurisdiction of the courtamartial, which it .vas proposed to substitute in their stead. These courtsmartial could take cognizance of capital offences.— (Cries of " No, no.") He was much mistaken if they cou ld not take cognizance of capital offence.. Mr. STANLEY---They cannot take cogn i zance of ca pital offences, except by the recommendation of the Lord- Lieutenant. Mr. FERGUSSON—Which power I would not give to the Lord-Lieutenant. He ohjec'ed to giving such a power to the Lord-Lieutenant, or any other man. But courts martisl were entitled to find parties guilty of capital offences; and the effect of that conviction was, the for feiture of the goods of the person So that, by this Act, these courtsmartial were to have the power, not only to banish, but to forfeit the goods of every culprit. The establishment of courtsmartial was objectionable in an other view. It took away from the prisener, not only trial by an impartial jury, but that assistance which every [ prisoner has a right to expect, and generally re ceives, from the experienced Judge before whom he should he tried. This assistanee was of great service to prisoners ; and, without it, he (Mr. Ferguson) should consider the trial by jury almost a curse. And how was , it in the courts menial. There is a Judge Advocate who is to assist the prisoner. But that Judge Advocate is the person who by law issues the warrant against the prisoner —h e is the prosecutor—he has to examine the evidence . before the warrant is issued—and it is on his opinion of , that evidence that the prosecution takes place. Was it likely that a man who hid all these duties to perform should not be impressed with an unfavourable feeling to wards the prisoner ? Or that he could, at the same time, act as his prosecutor and assistant ? On these grounds, he r objected strongly to courtstnartial ; and he obj cted to them further, because lie was afraid that the establishment , of them might lead to the total subversion of trial by jury in the country. there was another part of t[e Bill to [ which he had strong objections, and that was the it•re sponsibility of those tribunals. These courtsmartial were , specially exempted from the effects of any illegal acts they might commit under the Bill. That, they all knew, was e• not the else with ordinary courtemartial, as those officers wire liable to the ordinary tribunal,' of the country fur any illegal acts which they might cemmit in the exercise of their duties ; and there was at least one instance (that of Sir Charles Oele, who was fined 1,0001., for an illegal act) in which officers were punished for such conduct. Hut that was ad done aw iy with by the pre , sent Bill, and he felt astonished that his INlaj.sty'e Mi nisters should have thought it necessary to make the aiteration. He considered the introduction of that Blt as the greatest blow ever given to the Constitution. No case similar to it had ever come before that blouse—no • such powers bad ever been introduced into an Act of Paaament.—(Elear, hear.) It had been said by the Noble Lord, and by several of the Hum. Gentlein, n who supported him, that in making an inroad en the Consti tution, the further they should go the better. He begged to declare, that in all the books he had ever read, and in all the speeches he hail ever heard spoken in that House, or elsewhere, he had never seen or heard any doctrine which astonished him more than that, or which was more contrary to the generally received opinions on the subject. He was decidedly opposed to making such extensive in fringements on the Constitution, and wis very much inclined to believe that they would nut be received else tv-ere with the implicit consent which they seemed to meet with here. The proposed system was abhorred try the Irish universally, front their recollection of the horrors it occasioned in former periods. The CHAIRMAN suggested, that as there had been two or three trifling vernal amendments proposed, it would be as wed to incorporate these into the Bill, before further discussion on insure important points. The said verbal amendments being agreed to, Colonel DAVIES rose, and said it was with much re luctance that he found himself compelled to support the Bid, in consideration of its absolute necessity. He could not, however, suppress his conviction, that if Government had resorted to the vigorous exercise of their power at the time when these unfortunate disturbances commenced, there would not have been the slightest necessity for the proposed measure. The Ministers had no excuse to off. r for this neglect. They had been urged, implored to it, over and over, again and again, from every quarter. Not longer ago than lest July there had been a representati o n made to the ether House on the state of Ireland, couched, almost totidem rerbis, in the same manner as the repre sentation on winch his Majesty's Nlinisteeo had founded the present Bill. Not only had they refused to listen to the-e imploring representations—they bed bitterly aggravated existing evils by the production of that most atrocio u s measure, the 801 l for the compulsory recovery of tithes ; and when they bad thus brought the people to a state of despair, Ministers came and asked the House fur remedies of a nature against which every feeling of humanity re volted. But this was not a time to canvass the past con duct of Ministers. The great object was the present state of Ireland, a country where all order and tranquillity appeared to be at an end—the course of justice sub strutted jurymen asssaulted.—(No, no, from the Op position Benches.) He only stated what he bad heard. He did nut say that these representations had been proved—(Hear, hear)—neither hid he heard any proof to the contrary. At any rate, it appeared that jurors were intimidated, if not assassinated. Though he was op posed to the system of courtsmartial in general, yet let it be borne in mind that this was a case of no ordinary ne cessity. It had appeared to be supposed that officers in the army, from their education, their position, and their habits, must necessirily be inclined to despotic measures ; he wits far from concurring in these views. He had been rather surprised at an inconsistency exhibited in argument by the Hun. and Learned Member for Dublin. That Hon. Member had objected to these officers on the ground that th.y would probably mix in semi intercourse with the country gentlemen, and he biassed in their judgments accordingly. Whom did the Hon. and Learned Member propose to substitute ? Why, those very country gentle men themselves—nay, he proposed to enforce their at tendance under the penalty of 500/. It had been also o jetted that the gentlemen in the army laboured under legal incompetence; bur, in the first place, this tribunal wt's not to try any questions of law, nor questions of property, nor of political offences ; but merely to try whether B had or had not engaged in illegal meetings. He thought the officers of the army were at least as com petent to judge of law as the small farmers. But this tribunal was not left entirely to their own judgment, for they might la ive the advice of the assistant barrister. He was as much attached to trial by jury as any man—he considered it the palladium of English liberty; but when he looked at the state of Ireland, he saw no remedy but allowing the present Bill. Mr. TAYLEURE thought that the capacity of men for one thing, and incapacity for another entirely depend e d on their education and habits. Therefore officers in the army could not be suspected of corrupt motives or inten tional partiality ; but he thought that various reasons combined to prove that they were not exactly the class of persons of whom to ciimpose these tribunals. Mr. Sergeant PERRIN could not give a silent vote against this Bi I. In his conscientious judgment he be lieved it to be unnece-sary—(Hear, bear, from the Oppo s oi on )—in his conscientious judgment, he was convinced that it not only would not effect any goo f, but would be productive of the greatest mischiefs.—(Hear.) After giving due credit to all the statements relative to the alleged intimidation of jurors, he did not find that the Ministers had made out any case on this point, except as regarded the Carrickshaugh murders. This case he gave them credit for, but it mood alone; and was it not met with the cases of Clare, of Queen's County, of Kilkenny, by all the cases at the present assizes ?—(Cheers from the Oaposition Benches.) Was the solitary case of Cat riek sheugh to outweigh all the others? Would Ministers give no credit to the other provisions of the Bill ? Were not tine clauses already agree f to sufficient to put down agitation ? Were they not sufficient to protect life and property, prevent midnight outrage, and secure tranquillity ? They had /Wide an immense in crease in the military and censtabu'ary force and in the police, e t, w sufficient iatw a , , h to produ ce useof h thesete Bl If v powers effects. i If these r suffi e cin were not efficient, what could the courtemartill do ? There was another Bill in progress_ as Bill to which he should not refuse his consent—to change the Venue. These powers being obtained, what more could be wanted? With these they would have everything necessary to se cure the due administration of justice. In no instance could it be proved that a jury had failed in committing any individual under a criminal prosecution. The wit nesses would not be less intimidated when courtstrartial were established than with ordinary courts ; and it surely was not intended to convict men without hearing witnesses ? Other courts had been suggested, but he was not favourable to courts composed of barristers. He made t would suggest say no objection to courtsmartial on account of the officers not other being men of honour and integrity ; but he objected to summary courts—h ribune would let there be a continued Session of the Peace. Let there be barristers appointed to relieve eac h other , and so the sessions continued by regular a d j ournm ents. He bad been pleased by the declaration of the Ri ght Honourable Gentleman that this law should nut be executed l T d hseuygg had been none ; asked but he o unless it were necessary. He sincerely believed that declaration ; but he had a right to infer from the admission that the law was not immediately neces sary,—(Cheers.) He did not like the precedent, though he knew it had been said that it was made so wide a de parture from the Constitution because it might not be fol lowed. But that doctrine had been held on other oc casions. It had been often repeated, and often refuted by the events. This doctrine hid been often referred to in 1829, when Earl Grey had objected to the Bill then intro duced ; but wbat did he say in his opening speech, when he introduced this Bill to the House? Why, that the part of it which related to seditious meetings was merely• A n other q‘j a er r to l; t r i e o n n e t w e ic o h f the l Act bee no put u1t81.9..0 would he — (Cheers.) e hla w i o t eid Is.; martial, or to Whitefeet and Volunteers: h tte at pre-ent,!:, to neither. The law was strong ens)! were fairly, fully, duly, and impartiedl old er, (Cheers.) 111 in was always corrupt, : 1 not teP; objected to intrusting men with p ower In commonrd. It 0, them disregard the common law of thea tu duty of the House to make t he law not o. r„ine? n ther j , that it would not be abused by g ood men, ba r ': iied by 10 ciple that it might not he perverted or misaPP 1 ,1 te or wicked men.—(Cheers.) en for t s Mr. ROLFE wished to state til° v ev-- (le d to He had been at first much and decidedly oPP the debate clause, but at length, after listening to to become a reluctant convert to it, and meant t , re o r e s ku p u a P t e i) d )r f t ;o 7 tl ( se C ebeenriee greater t t no stidness of folly equal to, and no cowar. ear le;,, that of perservering in error from th ! t i a e u e n rs t , , cr thauget afraid.—(Loud cheers.) „ Elie 0• 00 l,imfry toted the course he meant to pursue. • ed Learned Gentleman who spoke lost had re lev el Go d/ 14 one great difficulty. The Hon• and Le arr .'_ i by Jar had stated, that if there was not to b e too t. .l ed, did not know what better could be subsiel,tjunos„,.i Hon. and Learned Gentleman had proP u . if b . , said he knew tua, better than military trio n i l vas ier were admitted on that reasoning, as soon as I huoi l,S" r that jury trials were not sale, then military Tr: thst jaiv v ,_ justified. It was said that it was not prov i : d rot ebei implied had been intimidated; but it was part Of he evid4ll ianntdhola,teighter.!" well satisfied by a priori reasoning, as bY t • t all te r x foe's. Intimiclauion had teen practised a gain' t h e oi, / (lasses; no man was a free agent ; and !v er . e :eteine!. I 'tas the only class that were free from mti.igitlielidiesoi (Cheers.) But there was evidence nf. 'that ee§ l'arriekshaugh was a case of this kind: u b t to t,e;,. enough; the administration of justice ough" t ion ed 4 peetemi. The Right Hon, Secretary had me° • ot yce i , in Cl .nmel 288 nurses were ceded over before a) be s m aline' led The Hon. Member for Drogh,dr o . ot OF, 91 4 ' peeved noticing more than that the j u rors w"ti ka, o eu f crwarcl. If it were indolence only, it u night e % vi e) the I " o ; er ere ( l but when murder was stalking through that an occasion when indolence s hould be e sw ies i s Again, at Kilkenny, fines were levied to th 201., 301., and 501 , before the jury bilut be could b e c° : t r o l attend. What wis the cause? Was it gq with intimidation? At least they could not get 0 not getting juries, should they not provide uould means for the administration of justice ? irl e of (11 1 „ call upon persona to administer justice at the risk ger to their own persons.—(Cheers.) 'beuoristOrtjtjl see some modification of the clause• in ce a dd I d there was a Judge Advocate, an Ihe recotorne § i the Judge Advocate should be empowere d to e tte s• sil o rscipitulate the evidence, so us to fulfil e"` ll 4 t hoog ii the functions of a Judge. H e was justified, off in supporting the claus e , and he me silt to giv e ' I to tee Government —(Ctieers.) Lord DARLINGTON had suppo ted the B ill, Ileg des tg , wished that the clause should be left as it ha s ' • 0 1, that it should not be frittered away and de"o'siiesteip was sati.fied that by making courtsmartia l aPPr to. ' jury courts w o uld d o a grea t injury to the s Oe p A milittry courts unanimity was not desirabl e ' e ood voted for the first a nd sec o n d, but if the el$:: altered as propos e d—if it we r e frittered awaY's-, certainly vote against it. He wished i t lett t ee IP e . o , originally introduced, otherwise he must OPP 2e criae 111 Major BEAUCLERK opposed the clause. the e ' hers of courts m a r ti a l were a ll snore or les s u rve ae sive r : fluence of the Horse Guards.—(No, no , cheer., that by loud No e s.) H e wou ld repeat the assertion, e of coursmartial were indirectly under the inifitieuesderri(it Horse Goat ds.—( N o , no .) H e w ould pros e his de pop (" It is impossible.") Allow him to expl ain. _„,(A P , lj e g ? esk what—when he went first into the a rtnY - to r , —he asserts d that when first he went into the 3 ,f ece i r r e ' was a great difference between the decision., d or, martial and their decisions at present. tie gl u e' witnessed with the deepest indignation pers°us ors' their flesh was torn from their backs.--0 1(11 'ro e s He asked if that were nut the fact? Was it I ' l-I Sirl' e ", 4 'nett were not now flogged as they were then ? 0 00 1 ;6 first joined his regiment at Halifax, there was, tsit from their back, or when his sleep was morning when he was not dragged from his be , ' -vissfl, the men of his own regiment lashed till the fle sh to rhe° the cries of melt belonging to other regimen's' drefi l° l l ; was that the case now ? No. Where one lit is c, were inflicted formerly, not one was inflicted o°':he courts, however, were the same—the law W as t ete —and what, then, had produced the alteration in d', sions of the courts? Orders from the Horse Gus:/e. sl '. merly cruelty was thought praiseworthy— o° ' o - ftbe i i countenanced. But why? Because the humanitY se s ,l ple of England had increased, and the peop le vie- IP (Q c) it. He remembered the exertions of the wortbY,og; opposite to den once the hateful practice of fl ';„ g b gi bli d ° O l , l / those exertions had led to issuin orders which 10/4 dified the decisions of courtsmartial, when t' it " the same and the offence was the same. lie - Je e p 1) (f the same dung heel taken place in the n avy. "be 'P h " would not give power to men who were wi der t cure of the Hot se Gu srds. It would tend t ° t r e , despotism, and bring ruin on the country.- --( Vd e4 be ff He denied that the effect of the Bill tv °u— o , d °f it a what was anticipated,andcontended,that 01 • 00' eilit sting, it would impede the iodministreto y in Ireland. It might indeed produce a " tu e r r a a r ti ee. lo l but it could only be temporary, and of short d - i ,be Lord HOTHANI referred to the aseertion e , b /P, v , un der `; te"" speaker, that courtsmartial were always ence of the Horse Guards, and left it to the I ld h u ride whether what the Hon. Member advaneed,-:ed sibs'o4 established his position.—(Cheers.) He cor o P' s ,tr the subject of military fl o g g ing b a d been isuer i e y n 0 ft , unfairly introduced into the discussion, esPe el ,l, 01 '0/ 17th clause of the Bill expiessly prOliibiledi:njeetit' i$ martial from inflicting that species of punt - t eod ) cf° did not mean to complain that Ministers 1 ,13 7 , Dill' p' right to snake very recent alterations in t " e ftigh t riot dis ge sm d nature of which had been stated by tb e t th e nourable Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) ; but, a h - Pl e j - oi r time, he did not think that they would Mak e , t : il t `Vir at ail more palatable to its opponents, while haps marenially impair its efficiency by render'nl'se,et, fluence of the military tribunals less powerff6 c t ,'' e : r i ie l extensive. It now appear e d that a number 0 ' to" rank were to be s e nt o v e r t o I re l an d to aid iu the cf offenders, but it hail not been stated in sill ' Lt re•i de 'do were to aid those trials—whether they were tO P oi ee - et tent n,d i t„. o r f y t t h r ei b r u u n t a i l l s i whether they were to form the whole bodY ei c eit- 411' d Upon this point, therefore, further informatino bade w y. ere A n t ot al i i n sary before tne House could decide upon the I ° ool omsome) objectionablecourtmar tij itted in the Bill. The constitutions of the tv , : tto or' lo l in several respec , s different from that of a c° t i o n, : 61 fle tr and it was a point not unworthy consid e , r3 , 0 0 ' r iff effect in ght be produced upon soldiers by tu o joe t ' i tution, which applied a different mode of ""-tblet d the law to one class of the King's sut•jects tf tor e f y it e e n t as so l u s e r : s h in () a u r g i b ,e t , 1 .,11:i. b ; e h t ,04 0 was applied to another. He (Lord Hotha u Y o f 0 4 0 1 ' effect of so wide a distinction upon the Inin"!„/ St d,Os tary, and he begged to know from the Secre,opo whether it was intended to introduce a c° r or ? dfr alteration in the Mutiny Bill in fsvour of th e : I ; tolibl An HON. AIEMBITH. 'ose with some wa rn ' t 0 0 ,1 state l ' el : t ild tradict, distinctly as possible, the Gallant Member for Surrey, our that c otsto4cl bebsd e under the influence of the Horse Guerde• e oee witnessed any scenes of the kind, he would i t . . s ede' flung his Commission in th e face of the Ci° M pp t Chief. be ~ d to allude lla:i the Bill Mr. g t a h l e l NeVr soldieryAß B U shouldß T be converted Major individual cases, atex p le l a a s in t e e d o , he tb w a s t , ud ders` lion, for he thought the di . iek r en o edneg didia. in and vulgar ju Noble o p of the trial of a Isia h e to be tried by LI nr L esi o i.su r t d ,iini had said that c" urtial ' strong f e t i v e ) rue:be were A enlightened the e case, tribunals which than e tdheen; m u: i t: l b. ez:urtCl'it:es sf :i a us q e u fu e l s . tion H h e e b d w y c e e : ffa' a es h u n i nt s d t P a f Enoepaeetri peasant — ll l t ( au l li f i r e ' Is l 3l t 'rt. it.e ,: ). :: . ar -e. s o c' : °: :•, ° - o ' t not mean to say thaolt.fncPoeurirts;:rftaihatil isvia°oswil'idisr;:::: the majority of cases, decide justly; hut it it'S s . ,,,,ot ,d b h eg ad ge p d ut to to ta t k h e e cient that a sentence should be just.—the peoP le 5 e o'f lieve it to he so; and if they (lid not, there WO 00 130 1 : 0 that confidence which mainly rendered 1 114 en eaSl former ni g ht, and to which it was important to ° .., ti:,' answer before the Committee came to a decisiort.lvoltre clause, viz., whether the sentences of courternaerit!var sit,' be sent back for revision ? When political fe _Lae i i :jd excited, a nd the passion& of men heated, it was sorrow ever ever necessary that persons accused should be ~.f it with every species of protection, and Thomasfine l . l ;: ji , Iv established by the celebarated case of O a 14 0 , Lord DARLINGTON had been raistaroiPp lion. Gentleman who had just spoken. All be oh that because Juries were required to be unanilli ;f 4 0 1 iNhiosboli:irrity of rr 0 therefore courtsmartial ought to be so. 0 : 1 4n ) Major HANDLEY was opposed to the 'ea u " (Altbor. )00,