The Sun. — London, England, 1830-03-10 00:00:00

trity, any .eived DI his take , wa ically •, r wag V AP intro- ;es, if , ryine i t ske hat in .Ipless t o the poor. ;odied cm iS manf, ployea our of who vri.9 'wed The ;we uper firer; ; di- curers rords, ig as bow- mely, *up that to ha -617 ith Of the estion estion e erec that a its de m de w, the ity of 1 with stip idance etitioa I, pre- ies - sion which Inetive hop 0 e much it t tnuc iod, lie ntinued ;asiontd be sup- cations, he had a an en- charac !d that a bouring into pari4h his own of the trozysrn afforded labour. !rease of rtetchei te. This rhich ho in from Cnrititiee, becamo rut ma d to any perienee le (Mr• the Poor y hened- PUS Poor sountry Ith there comma' espectiog )oor lane eOMe plan for carrying that colonization into beneficial eirfet should be devised. All he contended for was, that 8.,." ''thing must be done to put an end to a system which , not checked, would multiply misery to an indefinite ex teat. Until, however, the (lay arrived when the labour in class ts of the community should be convinced of the truth of what he had stated, and that the misery of their present situation, proceeding from redundancy, could be removed only by removal, be was convinced that the Re presentative Body eou'd never take any sa , ut ,ry step. He theretbre called on the intelligent part of that class of the community, or the labourers and mechanics who had re ceived the benefits of education, arid who were competent to the consideration, to investigate the subject,and to de termine if there was not truth in his statement, and where th e tmombers of the pepulatien were redundant, no legisla tire measure, no remission of taxes, or any other proceed ing wound of pUt down pauperism. In 1826, a entail experiment had been tried at 31ancheater. In the ye•r 1825, the popflivion of that town, 200,000 in num ber, was in a state of the greatest possible distress. The richer inhabitants determined to give work to all, at low wthltg"i• He had been told by an intelligent in d ividua l, many persona supposed that there was a redundant Population, others that there was no redundant hut nothing certain war established on that point. The people were put to work, however—they were taken back into the general demand as they were required, and at n o very distant period they were all absorbed. No one °mild deny that there was a great diffifenee between the condition of the agricultural and the condition of the ma nufacturing population ; and that whereas the demand for manual labour required in the former diminished, the d emand for manual labour required in the latter in evened. In agriculture the improved processes had oc essioned a greater prodece with lees manual labour ; lint in mannfsetnres the improvement of machinery, Were it not for the introduction of Irish labourers, would have Greatly increased the demand for, and bettered the condition of, the workmen. For the last thirty years, however, the latter bad been kept down by the influx from 11*(4, land. He could not avoid saying a few words on the subject of the currency. Many Hon. Gentlemen ap lieut.(' to he of opinion that a change—a depreciation— in our currency would operate to remove the national dis tress. Never, in the history of mankind, however, had the depreciation of the value of the money of any country pro duced any thing but misery to the labouring classes. This was undeniably true ; and ought to enter into all our con siderations when we were contemplating measures for the relief of those classes. The people at large ought to know that if, by a chang e of the standard, or by the introduc tion "f Paper, money were depreciated 25 per cent., the "nnequenee would be, that every shilling received by a labourer or an artisan would be practicdly reduced in val ue to ninepenee. It was true that time would afford a slow remedy for this evil, and that wages would gradually , i ncrease in the proportion of from a shilling to one shil ling and threepence; bat it would be then, and then only, that the situation of the labourer or of the artizan would be upon a par with his situation before the depreciation of the currency. When, therefore, he heard a depreciation of the currency described as a mean+, of relief for the labour ing efaesies, he only wished that those who an described it Would consider the subject a little, and they would per ceive that the sole tendency of such a depreciation would be to benefit the debtor at the expence of the unfortunate creditor. Ile protested, therefore, against such a proposi tion ; which, instead of relieving, would only add to the distresses of the labouring classes, and would not add a single grain of value to the wealth of the country. As to the champs which haul already taken place in the currency, he did not pretend to say that the landed interest had not been affected by them. But if these changes were now to be renewed, and all the evils attendant on the alte ration of the real terms of contracts were again to he pro (based, and that not only without benefitting, but very much to the injury of the labouring classes of the com munity, such a proceeding would experience his entire condemnation. Nor could the labouring classes derive time slightest relief from any such remission of taxation as would render it impracticable to keep up the necessary establish ments of the country, and to preserve faith with the pub lic creditor. He should grossly deceive the people were he to tell them that they must look for relief to such a remission of taxation. There was another sound princi ple which he wished to inculcate on this subject. It was impossible that any, remission of taxes could materially affect the situation of the paupers. Those who had to dispense charity might, certainly by a remission of taxes have their means of, doing so increased ; but those who were to be maintained out of that charity—in other words, the re dundant labouring population—must be benefitted to a very small degree by the remission of taxation, since it would not increase the amount of employment. He al luded especially to this part of the subject, because it had been said that the remission of the Malt and Beer Tax would do the pauper population good. It was impossible to do that portion of population good while it remained in a state of pauperisin, because its existence involved a constant conipetition among the labouring population. The remission of taxation could not reach those who were in a state of actual pauperism, and a large class, both in this country and in Ireland, were approximating to that class. All he was anxious for was to excite attention to the state of pauperisin. If any doubt remained on the minds . of Hon. Members, of the soundness of the doc trines which he had laid down, inquiry would convince there that that doubt was unfounded. If he were suc cessful in his motion, and were allowed t , bring the sub • jest before a Committee; the propositions which he should be prepared to maintain; and which he would endeavour to prove, would be as follows " 1. That the sums raised and applied for the relief of the poor In England and Wales, though mainly bearing on one particular class of fhe community—viz, the landed interest—ought to be considered, after the deduction of that portion which would otherwise be paid as wages, as much in the nature of a tax as any of those taxes which are to be found in the balance-sheet of the revenue and expenditure of the country. " 2. That if a pauper population, for whose labour there is no real demand, c an b e prosperously colonized (with their own con _ trepr atless expenee th an would be necessary to be incurred for maintenance in the mother country, a national outlay for the purpose of suc h colonization ought to be considered as en economy rather than as an expence " 3. That if a redundant itopulatiolwterebretml7teled danger effort of colonization, there be apprehended from what is called ' t7 filling but of the v a actium ' " 4. That if the United Kingdom were e relieved p from its redun dant labourers —that is, those labourers for whose labour no real and natural patueraladnernand exists in so c i e ty—th e rema i n i ng l a b ourers Permanently remain in a st a te of com p ara ti ve com f or t an d independence un s..l 'hat is expedieat to effect such reparation and abstrac o forced from unfor ce d l a b our as wou ld accura t e l y ' measure the r extent of the redundancy. their. That to enable parishes to raise money von mortgage of Poor-rates for a period of years—such capital being spec,- fically ap who mayP towards the emigration of voluntary candidates bc—wgulder independence in the colonies to pauperism at wrest be a measure highly favourable to the landed in as _That . in the event of home colonization, the ratio of danger to the filling up of the vacuum must be double as compared icttliforeign colonization. f t if the vacuum were to be filled up, the policy of a measure o colonisation must be governed by a comparison of the f k in nelent t of the expen ce o f mainta i n i ng th e new pauper popu _ tuov w h the decrement of the expence of maintaining the re rnulation, supposing them to have remained at home. fteth: That Vhere are n o m eans o f p ro d uci ng wealth mor e effec e combination of an able-bodied population, with un cultivated land of the first degree of fertility. - " That independently .and e a in , Independently of the special advantage to the • srcay ediu suc st, and to the labouring classes, the expenditure in itteill).,*dici:lToealotreer o c f la c s o s ionizat e io s r: in w g o p u r i o d p n e o r t ty b%in Teizy.de neeetialiV4 a pauper, while he re 3 c s ontinues a pauper, receives 414 1° 11 00r r .„are subsistence, he can neither stiffer from That th e " e !ed by its remission. flit Purpo se 0 . ppheation of any portion of surplus revenue for rn th,. home r raising a eettitnunit Poor, :would employment, capital to be applied in the first instance and secondly, in the colonisation of the be more beneficial to the labouring dames of the of p oi , than if the same sum were applied to the reduction sateoZougenbktor in the remission of any class of taxes to the An e x • H oult ,1 anunation would enable him to convince the only,, • • hat wh a t he b a d s t ate d was t h e f act; an d t h en 1,, when the House were really disposed to make the t tb l e P. ,% . 4l3 ent, would th e y be affording substantial relief to labouring and suffering classes of the country. He tie g it geel .. to . offer to the house his best thanks for the atten no With 'Which they had heard him, and be would now farther trouble them then by quoting an aphorism of L im aeon, who but was the enemy of colonisation in gene •t. whom he considered the best defender of the principle which he had endeavoured to recommend to the i i i _: r ce e• Lord Bacon had said, " Things will alter for the ee*Punt"mualb if they arc not remedied decidedly; • then 1111 0 can say what will be the end of the evil_?" 4 4 1 : 4 s : t ele .manner he would say, that if things were not peedily and decidedly, they would go on getting 7°17 e A nn taneously, and there would be no end of the evil The population would be unemployed—distress ,w Id increase ; and if a year passed on without Mem bers bog convinced of the truth of what he had said, no otherPeodmweLnuldrearrive when they would see there , wa s . and then they would couldfe el the mortification e t r li t e ific i a n t t i e o n n sit o y f oftleevil disappoint ment, until opinion universally pointed us to the true re . mfeeed/r7eotodtehscartibesvl:ich he had endeavoured, though in - Ter- Mr H o n , 'F'Peit:4ll.dTAN, in sec o ndi ng t h e mot i on o f hi s Right portance , Vl th e:l i d o :hat he considered it of the utmost im convinced that timesliorr oheinitiein pethrasto the redundancy classes of the country. lie was is of the • redundancy of the labouring population Was th e great cause of their distress. That feet was eatm e ty oun d t u y ri o n f g D t o h r e set E . ast l e n r t r l e i c e es a s ho n r o t less than 370 it their families means of going Out n w a i i t TPlied to him to procure them the for they w ere all to the Swan River, run. Ibe out the means of procuring a " nos. Gintleulaa wide Ann. visions of the panrer classea of this country. He thought he could make two divisions that, would be as nearly ac curate as those of the Hight Honourable Gentleman.— He should, he sail, divide them into poor and paupers: _ _ Of the whole of this country the portion north o Warwick, or, perhaps, north of the Thames, might be stated to be that in which the majority of the peopl e were poor ; while in that portion of the kingdom south of War wick, or south of the Thames, the majority of the peopl e were paupers. Mr. Burke bad truly said, that to attempt to ostahli,da a maximum or minimum of wages was mie- ehievoua in the extreme, for labour was a commodity, and every interference with the laws of bitch for fueli a pur pose must be injurious to it. The profits of labour, not the subsistence of the labourer, was the object of the agricul turalist, and the hbouring classes were, therefore, only fully employed when their employment would afford a profit to the men who engaged them. Unfortunately, in such a population every married man was an evil, for the market for labour was regulated by the bachelors, and the married men must descend to their terms, for the bachelor could nut rise to that of the nvirried man. The evils of tam_ pering with this subject aro,e from the endeavour to legis late for each parish, and he thought , there ought to be one reaeral measure, declaring that in each parish the will of t]T majority of rate payers assembled in vestry should bin! the minority. The laws of settlement should be altered, and then only would the labourer have the means of carrv his labour to a free market. He recommended that a small portion of land should be given to each pauper, and he was convinced that the poors' rates wou'd then be ►nate- rially diminished. It happened to him lately to be present , at a Quarter Sessions, where two persons were indieted for stealing haulm or bean-stalk. The object for which this was wanted was to procure a litter for the pigs; and in the one instance the Jury refused to convict, because they said the practice of stealing hauhn for such a purpose was universal in the county. In the second case, they did convict, but the man was strongly recommended to mercy on the same ground. If men were allowed a small piece of land, they could themselves cultivate this litter which they were now unable to buy, and which it seemed they were cotnpellsd to steal. He knew, however, that what he now proposed could not be adopted without a chilge in the law of settle ment. Ile proposed to keep the currency out`of the quea thm, for it would only excite a difference of opinion, and he trusted that something would soon he done. Mr. J. SMITH supported - the plan of giving each , pauper a small portion of land. He had done ao to a certain extent in the eastern division of Sussex, and the result was most satisfactcry. He bad allotted to a number of poor persons rather more than one acre each, and not only were they kept from demanding parish assistance, hut, beyond hid utmost expectations, the result had been to him most beneficial, and the rates of the parish were reduced nearly one-half. If, instead of this, individuals were compelled, as they were in many parts of England, to work on the roads at 6d. and Bd. a day, and to sleep in barns and out-houses, there could he no wonder that they forgot their duty to society, and that if temptation was offered them they fell into the commission of crime. He implered the attention of the House upon the subject. Mr. BENETT could not agree with the Right Hon. Gentleman as to many of the principles Ile had stated, Among the rest he could not possibly concur with what the flight Honourable Gentleman had said respecting the currency. Ile did not wish to introduce that question unnecessarily into this discussion, but he must make one observation upon what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said. He was not a friend of depreciated currency; but he could not help thinking that the adoption of the pre- smt currency had taken from a number of persons con nected with the productive classes of society the same means of emplcying the labour of men that they before p e esiessed. He thought, therefore, if there was a limited return to our former currency there would be greater means of employment, and consequently a greater demand for labour. He must confess that he was quite astonished when he heard the Right Hon. Gentleman say that the reduction of taxation could have no effect on the labouring poor. Why the reduction of taxation would afford in creased means of consumption to the higher and middle dosses, and consequen ly increased opportunity of employ ment to the labouring poor. Without these things, he was convinced that emigration would afford but very little re lief ; for though many might be removed, numbers would soon spring up to till up their vacant places in the class to which they had belonged. In a parish near him a Clergy man had neatly done away with the poor rates by appoint ing the glebe land for the poor to cultivate. This could not be done to a sufficient extent to relieve the whole country; but relief might be effected by a return to the former currency—by a diminution of all the taxes that pressed upon country labour. Mr. COURTENAY thought it would he extremely un advisable to go into a Committee, which would occupy time without any expectation of coining to any practical result. He hail one still higher ground to object to a Committee, as it would be an abuse to the country to ap point any Committee to take into consideration the state of the labouring poor, unless the House felt confident that that Committee would he able to devise something which would administer to the suffering classes extensive relief. He agreed with the Right lion. Gent, that there had been a great redundance of the labouring poor, but he could not bring himself to believe that that redundance had been caused by the poor-rates. He had come to this result in his reflections, that all the House could do would be to amend the Poor Laws ; and if that was not sufficient, then to have recourse to emigration. But to neither of these ohjrcts did a Committee appear to him to be the most de sirable mode of proceeding. Th• Right Hon. Gent. ap- ' proved of the Bill introduced by the Hon. Member for Shrewsbury, and had proposed Amendments, which he thought a better mode of proceeding than what the Right Lion. Gent. now wished. Ha had said that of the many Committees not one had produced any - good ; but he (Mr. Courtenay) must remind him of one exception—for one Committee had produced a Bill which had certainly checked the progress of the Poor Rates. The evil of the Poor Rates had not increased in any thing like the proportion that hail been expected twelve or thirteen years ago. There was not a single term used by the Right Hon. Gent., respect ing the impossihility of the country continuing to go on as it had dose, which had not been used and applied in the same manner for a century and a half. The Right Hon. Gent. wished to know how much of the Poor Rates were paid to those who were willing to labour but could not get work, and he had recommended a classification of paupers, hut neither of which objects were proper to he debated in a Committee. If a Committee upon the subject were to con sist of 35 Members, he was sure there would be 34 plans and a half started, and to be debated. The letting of lands to labourers would be facilitated by the Bill then in the House, which gave a power to parishes to let out land for the employment of the poor. He could only say that whatever improved the prosperity of the country must im prove the condition of the people; but it would be impos sible to get rid of the poor altogether, unless they could bare a constant progressive prosperity without any check, and keeping pace with the increase of the population. The Right Hon. Gentleman's Resolutions were a sort of rea soning pamphlet, and he could not expect any Committee to come to his Resolutions—they would cause an endless discussion. He would recommend the Right lion. Gen tleman to abandon his measure, and proceed with his Bill for Emigration. Mr. SLANEY acknowledged the services rendered by the Right Hon. Gent. in bringing the subject before the country, and there never was a period which more impe ratively called upon the House as a matter of policy and duty to consider the question. It had now been a period of fifteen years of reace ; and instead of having improved the condition of the labouring classes of the community, the peasantry or the southern counties of England had de cidedly deteriorated. Mansions had been built, and riches spread throughout the land ; the higher classes possessed enjoyments which they had not possessed before, and the middle classes had enjoyments which their forefathers had not; but the working classes, by whose labour they ob tained their enjoyments, instead of. advancing with the progress of civilization, bad deteriorated. No man who looked to the consequences could contemplate the effects of this. Was .not this a case to call on Government, and upon that House, calmly and sedulously, but firmly and steadily, to look at once at the nature and extent of the evil, and at its probable consequences. The great body of the working classes might be divided into two sets per fectly distinct—he meant the agricultural and manufactur ing population ; but of the latter it was not his intention to say a single word. With reference to the peasantry, they might be divided likewise into two classes, perfectly and clearly distinct from each other. An Hon. Member had spoken of the redundancy of the population, which cer tainty might exist in the South. of England, but it could not be said to exist in the Northern counties. Tne great est distinction existed between the southern and northern parts of the kingdom, as much, indeed, as between the people of any two distinct kingdoms ; and it was for the House to trace the causes of the difference. In twenty counties of the North the poor were well off, with plenty of work and good pay for their labour, and the parish rates were lower than in the South; whilst in the South there was (IR immense body of the poor depressed and de,grad, I, as compared with their brethren of the North. The poor rates in .he county of Sussex were as high as 7s. in the pound, whilst in the Ncrtli they did not exceed Is. 6d. Iu the North the poor laws had kept to their original inten tion, whilst in Sussex they bad been wrested completely 6 from their yurpoee. Tia the North ugly ouc penes; ita forty applied for relief out of the rate',v. , ll3.t in Sussex the proportion was as one to three. la 1793, the price of food to the poor man w is proprarti , wate ta his wa,:re,, but now there was a new era. In tha interim, the prices of wages and food had oscillated ; wheat in one year had varied from 608. to 1.50:. the quarter. It had been utterly impossible in those years for the:labonrir.g man to support hitrisel, and in the north the temporary expedi ent of subscriptions had been resorted to ; wEilst iu the south the expedient ha sheen resorted to to pay the wag „ „f labour partially out of the poor rates ; and of all scheme s ever invented, never had there been one more detrimental. A scale of these drafts from the poor rates had been fi xe d according to the prices of bread. This had commenced in Sussex. Was not Government bound to consider the effects of this system? A few years no the prnpor:ion of poor in this kingdom had been as one in twelve ; soon after as one in nine; soon after as one in seven ; and now he believed it to be as one to six. Ile could re'er to docu_ ments to prove that throughout this kingdom one person in six received aid from the parish. The period which had produced this was that of the oscillations; but, now that th., cause ha,7l passed away, why not revert to the old practice ? In the Northern Counties the poor labourer received twelve shillings a-week, whilst in the South he received five or six ; and yet it was infinitely cheaper to pay a man good wages, and to acquire all his enere,ics and exertions ; for when the peasantry .were degraded they were lost to the country and to thetwelveg. It was both the policy and the duty of the landlord to elevate the humbler clases. The Report of the Cammittee of ISIS hail stated in the most plain manner what h,d been the cause of the abuse of the poor laws in the South of England. Fire different Committees had agreed in the same opinions, and they had recommended the same remedies; namely, to go back gradually and cautiously to the system of the poor Taws which had existed before the abuses bad been intro duced. They had the experience of various parishes which had returned to those laws- with the happiest effect. The success bail been uniform, and where wages had increased pauperism had diminished. It was in consequence of the abuses of the Poor Laws that the redundancy of the popu lation existed in the South of England ; but all remedies were useless that did not tend to restore the proportion be tween employment aryl capital. But all that was neces sary was to take away the:existing stimulants to popula tion, and to leave the natural laws which regulated popu lation to their own operation. The poor would be then inure industrious and cautious, and take better care of themselves. The Right Hon. Gentleman oppodte (Mr. Peel) was not insensible to the sufferings of the multitude; and he saw the necessity of assisting the classes that were distressed and degraded, and it was evident that unless something was done, the country would go on from worse to worse. Turn which way they would, from the House in which they then were—go into whatever county or place they would round the metropolis, it would be found that one person in every four or five was a pauper. The noble palaces—the splendid mansions that surrounded them —stood upon an insecure foundation and a tottering base if the poor were degraded. He ;believed there was only one feeling in that House upon the subject, and that was to improve by every possible means the condition of the poor, and that was acknowledged to be the only way to spread happiness, and to diminish that frightful catalogue of crimes which had increased of late years, and which was the necessary consequence of the destitute and degraded condition of the lower orders. Mr. E. DAVENPORT denied that there was an over populatiOn in the country ; and he thought it would require great abilities to show that a country, capable of producing subsistence for all its inhabitants, and even capable of producing double what is now produced (were agriculture hut improved), could be overpeopled by its present popu lation. The chain which had connected capital and labour had been dissolved ; but no person Fad a right to arraign the wisdom of Providence, until lie had found out that he could entirely exculpate the fully of man. Providence might have made man with less folly, end which would have dissolved the argument. He would only say a word as to the proposed remedy by exporting part of the popula tion. When the numbers had been thus thinned in Ire land, for instance, what security was there that the vacuum would not be soon supplied? and certainly there was no country of the world that had a better reputation than Ire land for multiplying the species with rapidity. Sir F. BURDETT—If the Right Hon. Mover had not yet made much way in his project, he had at least now succeeded to the extent of persuading the House that the subject was worth consideration. Nevertheless, he could not yet encourage him with the expectation of a beneficial or speedy result. He wished particularly to avoid the question of the currency, how far it had had an effect in occasioning the redundant population ; and he should therefore only say, generally, that on this point he was in clined to agree with his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. W. Hor ton). As to filling the vacuum to be occasioned by emi gration, it seemed to him that nothing was more easy than to prevent a rapid increase, when once the numbers were thinned. In the same way, it was easy at any time to stimulate population, but not so easy to revocare pro duct, and to lessen it after it had been so stimulated.—.. There was the difficulty—and hence arose the question, what was to be done with the present superabundant popu lation? The existence of that superabundance must, for a time, produce great suffering arid misery ; and whether it was or was not the fault of the Legislature, there the people were, and the country was bound to provide for them, and could not allow them to starve. Tice great feature of the subject was Ireland—get rid of what he might call the annual Irish invasion—of the competition of the Irish peasantry with the labourers of England—and the latter would be left in comparatively easy and comfor table circumstances. The Irish were an honest and an in dustrious people, and they had a full right to bring their labour to the best marker. While the Irish peasant could obtain more for his labour here than in his own country, he must and would come; arid the necessary consequence was, that the English peasant mos reduced very much to the same condition. Thus in truth, and in fact, the English country gentleman had his estates burthened to provide for the poor of Ireland.—(Hear.) —In Berkshire, the mere passing of the Irish poor in a single year had cost from 12 to 1400/. The question was, was there any effectual re medy for this great evil? He was sorry his Right Hon. Friend b ad involved himself in such a complication of Re solutions, containing many posieons upon which no two men perhaps could be found to agree : the more his Right Honourable Friend had advanced into his subject, the more contracted his views seemed to be; and it would have been far better if he had limited himself to his original general and simple proposition—that it was expedient to send part of the redundant population to the Colonies. As the mo tion now stood, it would lead to no beneficial practical re sult—whereas, if his Right Honourable Friend had brought in a Bill to carry his intenti.ns into effect, a sub stantive proposition would have been made upon which the Legislature would have been called upon to decide. At present the estates of Irish gentlemen were hot-beds of population, and this was an evil that loudly called for re medy. In order that England might continue the sphere of laudable enterprise, he wished to get rid of those who were merely burdensome; they might be removed with ad vantage to all parties to some of our magnificent colonies, the chief difficulty being to determine of the good which were the best. The exportation of a comparatively small number would have a great effect upon those who were left behind; as a small overplus of any commodity depre ciated it greatly, so a small overplus of popula tion caused an accumulation of misery. The subject of relief could be no topic of dispute—all were anxious to accomplish one end ; amicable discussion might lead to the most beneficial results, and Minister. would be grateful for any useful suggestions. He would confine the view of the House simply to the point, whether it was not possible to remove to the Colonies a large portion of the population of Ireland, and of Ireland alone ? In that country there were no poor rates ; and as the present management of Irish estates produced the evil, a rate, not in the nature of a poor-rate, might perhaps be levied upon them, to aid in the accomplishment of the object. Tie could not agree with his Hon. Fm iend (Mr. J. Smith), that to give every poor man an acre of ground would remedy the evil. First, how would it be possible to give every poor man an acre of ground? And, secondly, if it were given, was not that the very system that had prevailed in Ireland, and which had occasioned the redundant population?—(Hear.)— What had happened in Ireland would then happen in England ; and the mischief, instead of being amended, would be multiplied. There were two ways by which the lower orders might be benefited. Ist. By giving them higher wages ; 2d. By reducing their numbers —though the second was, in fact, only another mode of ac complishing the first. Then as to the introduction of machinery, it was undoubtedly true that it might for a time throw hands out of employ, but in the end the in crease of the branch of trade in which machinery was used would require the active exertions of many more men than had in the outset been temporarily injured,— (Hear.) --When he talked of a rate for Ireland, he was ready to admit that the subject deserved grave considera tion ; colonization must be attended with a heavy expence ; but it would not be enormous if those parishes that were relieved contributed their due share towards the attain ment of relief. From the effect of those contributions the parties would soon recover when once the superabundant population was remot ed. He hoped that his Right Hon. Friend would not press his motion to the division, because it would lead to no beneficial practical result. Sir G. gURRAY...-He ebould only ifia very few o• ervationß, iu eorv,•crlencc chiefly of what had Olen from the Hon. Barone', to whom he had listened now, •as ....... always, with feat satimfaction. He concurred entirely with what his Right Hon. Friend (Mr. W. Horton) had .aid on the subject of emigration to the colonies: that opinion was not new to him, fort he had entertained it when he wts in the Canadas, and lie had stated it in a r he then drew up. for the better defence, of those ovirv.es. theu 4 ht now as he had thought then, that the only certain and permanent means of providing for the defence of the Canadas was by directing to them a stream of population from the mother country, attached to her interests, and resolved to maiatlin her possessions. The difficulty of holding out much encouragement on the of emigration arose from the strong prevailing dis position in favo❑r of it. If much encouragement were given, that disposition would be increa , ed to a dangerous, or at least to an injurious extent. With a view practi cally to protn,:te this benefit, ho had turned Lis mind wilh great attention to tl4c question—aryl the mide in which he thouJit the object might be obtained •.vag by establishing in the colonies themselves a well-con,i- tiered systcm, with reference to the grant of land, ;nil then by degrees, when that system was brought to matu rity, to es•ahl'sh in some of the .ports of this kingdom agents, to whom persons desirous of sending out emigrants might luldres6 themselves, in or.ler to fiteilitate or pro- vide passages, and to make 'those arrangements in de tail which landud proprietins, societies, Or parishes, would find it difficult to make themselves.—(Hear, hear, hear.)--But in consider:ng this plan, it had always appeared to him impracticable for the mantes to go to any large expenee in order to convey emigrants to our North American Colonies, for in stance. Therefore, in order to give a commencement to the plan, wi.en applied to, lie hail I.•ehd out that on the arrival of the emigrants in the provinces, they would re- ceive land free from Pny expense hut the usual fees on making the grant. • The outline of the plan was this : That those who came out with money ready to make pur chases of land, should be provided with it ; tat those who on coming out required no assisanc•e,hut at the same time, were net able to pay for the land, should have it on di, charging the ordinary fe2s for the survey, &c. ; a third class were those whO came cut and required aid, and, besides having their -land free of any expense, it was doubtful whether it might not be fit to Rive them assistance in the first instance in the erection of log houses. 'Whatever was done caution was necessary, or such a tide of population might be poured into the province:, as would overflow the country and be attended with great inconvenience. Ile stated these views to show that he had not neglected the important subject, and he would only add one word as to the invasion from Ireland of which the Hon. Baronet had spoken : that was, that in his opinion, the most certain, and he might say, the most legititnate mode, of getting rid of that evil was, by promoting the prosperity of Ireland. He would conclude by merely adver'ing to what he had already done to carry into effect a plan of emigration. The Duke of Hamilton had applied to him on behalf of some persons who wished to emigrate from his estates : land had been given them for the mere expense of the survey— the settlers were sent out, and they had been provided for to their 'entire satisfaction. A similar application had been made by the Hon. Member ix Ludgershall with re ference to emigration from Ireland, and to him I replied, that I was ready to act on the same principles that had guided me with respect to the settlers from the estates of the Duke of Hami:ton. Mr. BARING had always been of opinion, from the time he was a Member of the Committee, that relief might b e given •by emigration, and it was the interest of parishes in the southern parts of the kingdom, which were suffering so severely under the Poor Laws, to con tribute to this desir►ble end. Those who in-this country were in a state of abject pauperism, in the Colonies were in a condition of comparative comfort. Only tw•o re medies worth consideration had been suggested—the one wa■ Emigration, and the other an alteration of the Poor Laws, reverting to what bad been properly called a sound action of that system of enactments. The transition from one state to the other •was the difficulty; and if the poor rates were supplied only to the aged and infirm, and an op portunity were afforded to the young and able-bodied to proceed to the Colonies, much might thus he accomplished for the benefit of this kingdom ; and the danger from a transition would thus be materially lessened. It behoved Government, then, at the present moment, to determine whether it would make the experiment, and not be satis fied,- Session after Session, with one or two debates on the subject, which ended in no practical measure. For himself he was ready to try the plan, and thus to attempt to get rid of a considerable part of the surplus population. Colonel O'GRADY denied that in Ireland there was a redundant population if the waste land were brought into a proper state of tillage ; and he maintained that England had no right to complain of what was termed the Irish invasion, because the absentee Nobility and Gentry spent in this country much more than the Irish peasantry took away. Lord ALTHORP thought that a Committee of the whole House—not fin• the purpose of examining witnesses, for that would be absurd, but for the purposes of discus sion—usight lie attended with very beneficial effects. He thought certainly that no new measure ought to be intro duced affecting the state of the people, or applying to the administration of the Poor Laws, which would not have the effect of making those who contracted imprudent mar riages at an early period of life, find themselves in a worse situation than if they had exercised a greater degree of foresight and discretion. Mr. A. BARING explained. Mr. SLANEY observed, that the great principle of the Poor Laws ought to be, to find employment for the able-bodied labourer. Mr. HUME disapproved of fees on emigration. If one class of emigrants paid rees, surely the others ought—the principle of exemption should not be confined in its operation. Sir G. MURRAY said he had given directions to dimi nish the fees as much as possible. Lord SANDON made a remark which was not au dible ; and Mr. W. HORTON rose to reply. He said it was the duty of the House to assert distinctly whether or not it was prepared to relieve the country from the effects of that re dundant population now pressing upon its resources. It was indisputable that the population of Ireland, as corn pared with the demand for labour, was prodigiously re dundant, and he saw no means of relief from that redun dancy that could be at all considered effectual except those which he had recommended, and which he should feel it his duty to continue to recommend notwithstanding the apathy with which they appeared to be received. It was in vain to talk of the Colonial Secretary affording facilities for emigra tion—be had not sufficient funds at his disposal. He (Mr. \V. H.) was told to bring in Bills. He could very easily bring in Bills, but they would prove of little use, enless there were money t• carry their provisions into effect. Bills without money were but so much waste paper. The House might rest assured that 1,000,000/. applied to the pur poses of emigration would do more good than reduction of taxation to that amount which could possibly be effected. He knew the House received with distaste much of what he thought it his duty to say upon that subject; but lie should persevere—more for the effect that might be pro duced out of doors, than for anything he hoped to . effect within the walls of that House. He hoped that the influ ence from without would urge the energetic means for rid ding the country of the incubus of population by which it was oppressed—means for spreading English feelings and English institutions over the fertile plains of the new w o rld. He should feel great pleasure in consenting to withdraw his present motion for a Committee, and he was determined soon again to bring the subject under the con sideration of the House, either by moving a Resolution or by introducing a Bill, when he should take the sense of the House upon a distinct question, whether or not they would look at the difficulties of the country with a view to provide an adequate remedy for the existing evil ?-1110- tion withdrawn. LEGAL REFORMS.—WELSH JUDICATURE. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said, that in rising to bring forward his motion on this subject at so late an hour of the night (nearly one o'clock), it was not his in tention to occupy the time of the House beyond that which would be necessary for a brief statement of the general nature of the alterations which his bill would propose. The House would bear in mind that this measure formed a part of those judicial regulations which were alluded to in the speech from the throne at the commencement of the session. The bill for which be should wave might be considered in two parts; the object of the first being the general principl e of assimilating the administration of jus tice in England and Wales, and the measures of detail by which greater facilities would be afforded for carrying the first into effect. To do this it would be necessary to en large the machinery, in order to secure greater despatch, The common law of the two countries was administered Judges -12 for England, and 8 for Wales. The b fl y rs: o step would be to reduce that number to 15 ; thereby removing 5 from our judicial establishment ; but not only would these appointments be an ultimate saving to the country, but the offices attached to several of the courts would also be removed. He mentioned this in justice to Government, which, in consenting to forego so large a share of patronage as this would involve, most clearly evinced that their •nly object in the proposed alterations was the benefit of the community. With respect to the nmn b e r. of Judges, it was well-known that, at different periods,it vanes cooiderabip At mu time it will I S I a$ others 15, IG, and 17, hat, for the last 100, or be might says 130 years, the number had been limited ; and it was remark dile that this comp,tratively small number bad des- Pl'el'ed a grelter shnre of public business than was per form d IT the JtuhT4 of any other country in the world. The way in which he 01°161 propo..! the addition to the iuesent windier in England It-olld he to a l i Goe to each of thc common law ceor:•. Oiw of the five of which each court would then consist would have to sit at chambers, take bail, and do the other business out of court, which one or the Judges in each court now usually performed in term. It would be a matter of regulation atnonst the Judges them selves, which of them should attend to the chamber busi ness in the term ; but it was the intention of the Bid that Only three puisne Judges should sit at on, time with th, Chief Judge in each Court, the number of fmr loving been found, from long experience, to be that which wa, most convenient, and to which, as havin.2 been most ac.. eustorned to it, the public looked with the greatest faction. It wag also intended that while the four Judee- sat in bunco, the other Judge should sit at nisi print whic•.h would have the good effect of facilitating the des patch of business, and also prevent the necessity of Navin the Chief Judge of the respective Courts, who u'sual!y took the nisi pries cases, leave the Court 01) certain days in term, therehy often ocoasirming much delay to the busi ness Of term. In this way alone there would be a saving of two days in each tern ~ The Bill would also propose at alteration with respect to the length of the terms. At present !some inconvenience was fit from the periods at which they commenud. Miclmelmas Term bogan nn the _ _ 6th of November, and ended on the 29th ;• Hilary began on the 2311 of January, and ended on thel2th of February; Easter began this year on the 2Sth of April, and ended on the 21,dt of May ; and Trinity on the 11th of June, and ended the 30th. The time for holding Easter Term was, of course, variable, as it began on the We:lnes:lay fort night after Easter day. When be was first aequ minted with the prae'iee of Westminster Hall, a much longer time was allowed for TaeAtion, and that before the Michaelmas Term was much longer than at 'resent, bu __ for the last tea years the attention which ,arristers were obliged to give from the increased num ,er of days duriitz which the Courts s:t, left too little _ime for that relaxation, and for that which was so lin pirtant to the profession for study. In stating this, he of course meant to cast no imputation on the Noble auJ Learned Judge who presided in the Court to which he 'note particularly alluded. No man c nrld feel a greater respect for UNA Noble Lord than be did, awl no man was more impressed with the constant and unremitting atten tion which Le gave to business, even to the risk of hisown health. Yet with the great attention which he bestowed, the business of the Court had got into arre - ar, and that arrear was-on the increase. The measures which had been introduce•! by the Noble and Learned Lord for fic:- litating the de•patch of business in the Courts had not suc ceeded. The first measure was soon after repealed, and the second,—that for enabling three of the Judges to sit in banco out of the term to discharge the arrear of term lit- siness, was also unsuccessful. Indeed, it could not he otherwise ; for it was a Court without a bar and without an audience, and was not looked to by the public with that feeling of satisfaction which was so necessary to bring to it the business which was taken to the Court in term. The changes which he should propose would be—first, that Michaelmas Term should begin on the 2d of November, and end on the 21th. This would give time fur the di,- charge of nisi Arius business for one — month up to Christ— mas. There would then be a short vacation until the com mencement of Hilary Term, which would begin on the Sth of January, and end on the 28th. By this arrange ment two days which, by Act of Parliament, were dies non in our Law Gmrts, would be excluded, and so much saved for the business of the term. lie would limit the . - sitting after Hilary Term to one month, as about that time the circuits would begin. Generally speaking the circuits were at an end the first week in April; he would there fore fix Easter Term for the 15th of that month, and after sitting for 24 days, there would he a larger time allowed, as an interval between Easter and Trinity than at present occurred. Of this term he would only allow one week fur ;he sitting of the Court. Ile es° proposed that the Couri 11,:ulti sit only for a month after Trinity, which wool, leave about two months from the circuits to the Michael mas Term. There were other points in the Bill to which he would not then go, which would give greater facilities to the Judges for transacting business in chambers, and also for trying causes, by which greater expedition would he insured. It would be a niost important thing to ad- vance any step towards some equalization of the business of the Courts. It was not his intention to propose any al teration in the forms of business in the Court—any change which it might be necessary to make in this way would he the subject of separate legislative enactment ; but one point which his Bill embraced he did not wish to pass over. This point was, that there should be no arrest on mesne process for any sum under 1001., unless upon spe cial affidavit made before a Judge, stating peculi kr circumstances on which the Judge would have dis cretionary power. This would in itself greatly di minish the number of arrests. His reason for fixing the sum at 1001. was, that no man would be likely to leave the county to get r:d of the obligation to pay such a sum, and yet it was necessary to fix a limit somewhere. It was well known that peculiar species of personal property,— such as property in the funds,—was not liable to be taken in execution, and persons in debt with such property 'eight go off to another county and live there, receiving the dividends, and secure from their creditors. He had fixed the sum at the amount stated, which, as he said, would greatly check the number of arrests ; for though many persons might think it desirable that the law should be wholly abolished, he did not think that the time was yet arrived when it could be done with safety. It would in no very long time be seen how this limitation of the law worked, and he had no doubt that the change would be received with satisfaction by the country.—(Hear.)— In making changes each as his Bill proposed, much roust be done at first as a matter of compromise ; and if we could not get all the good we wished at 'once, we should en leavour to get as much as was within our immediate reach.—(Hear, bear.)—Many might think he had not gone far enough in some points, but he had endeavoured to achieve as much as he could With respect to the Court of Great Sessions of Wales, other opportunities would occur for going into the subject more in detail. He would now confine himself to stating that it was intended to abolish the jurisdiction of th it Court, and assimilate the practice to that in England. The law was the same in the two countries—the difference lay in the triode of administration. As the Court of Great Sessions would be abolished, it would be necessary to send two Judges on an additional circuit. On this subject, of nicking a change in the Welsh circuits, it was hie wish to do every thing which would make it as agreeable as pos sible to the inhabitants of, that part of the country. He had heard what had fallen from an Hon. Friend near him on this subject in the early part of the evening, and he could assure him that it was his desire to meet the wishes of the people of Wales in this respect, as far as he could could consistently with the principle of the alteration. It was hardly necessary for him to say that the granting of commissions of oyer and terminer and gaol delivery was the prerogative of the Crown, and that the Crowa could grant such commissions to be held at any time or place, and ex tending its jurisdiction over such places as it might deem proper. This matter, therefore, of the extent of circuits was a matter which he thought would be much better left for decision by his Majesty by the advice of his Privy Council, than be brought for discussion in that House ; and the more particularly so, as the House could act on the subject only by legislating ; and any measure they. might introduce for fixing the time, place, or extent of a circuit, must be the subject of an Act of Parliament, which could be altered only by another act. In the Privy Council, any regulations that might be made by the Crown, if they were found incon venient, or required amendment, could be rectified in a more summary and speedy manner. He was aware, as had been stated by an Hon. Friend near him, that in the first report of the Commissioners on this subject, they re commended a division of counties, in the arrangement re specting the circuits. To such an alteration he could not consent. He would not divide any county, English or Welsh ; but whether each county could have a separate assize-town was a matter which must be left for considera tion. It would be necessary in some cases to join counties in one assize, for otherwise, the business of some was so small, that it would not hold out sufficient inducement to men of eminence at the bar to attend them ; and, in fact, it might be difficult to get a sufficient bar, unless a union of more counties than one was included in the same assize. But in such union the convenience of each county would be studied as much as possible in the selection of place where the assize was to be held. The city of Chester would be a great object in making the new arrangements ; and it would be a matter fur c onsideration, whether much of the judicial business of the county of Lancaster, border ing on that city, and which was now transacted fifty miles off; might not with much greater convenience to the par ties be despatched at Chester. In cases of toiiou of more counties than one in an assize, it would be necessary that there should be only one sheriff; but in this there could whom was now in l the businessca case of oi of be no practical inconvenience, for there would be a sub sheriff for thingfor each might the office would be transacted without interference. The m Cambridge and Huntingd on ,. w h ere one s h er iff ac t e d !'or Petit c , euetiee, The Bill would Jibe fiance nt s o)rint b y es i d 'y one a the gulatioug by which a Jury ot either county might try causes originating in the other, and this would be found the greater convenience, and tend to the more perfect ad ministration of justice; • for such was the difficulty of getting . a sufficient number of Jurors to act in some ettutirks, that causes were left for trial to a very few who possibly might in some instances be biassed by local in . . erests or feelings. It air is also intended that the gaols in emmti-s tl)nld he con4dcred iu law a% in each ; and lana,x would aho be found regulating the mode in which he expemie of court-home and other expenditure nal teetrd with the holding of an assize would be a pporti on ed )etween the counties joined, according to circumstance.. This seas the general outline of the — measure which he should introduce, and though it might seem at first glance &lint it would require volinninoes enactment:, it would ha band that the whole did not comprise more than a low ,isges. In Laming the mea.ure, he hail eaficaroured to ,void an l y violent change, or . makinc any at eseept in hose poinrg were change was expedient to carry the . . enerll principle of the measure into operation. It might, perhaps, have accorded more with cet Lao populgr notions, ;hat n•iren he propomerl a change is the a}•ate,a of jarlieigi admini.tration, lie shou!d sweep away every thing at once.• i-le had, however, limited laitnAelf to tlime alteratinino: .vhich Were necessary, preserving as much as possibt. the ancient forms. He had little hesitatien in saying that the 15 Ju,:ges in this country would have more ariitiona ,h, t i, t o administer in ettuses of property than all 'those who -presided over the administrati.n of justice in France. It would nat be nninstructive t. put the }Lusa in po‘sevion of the exact stre of our relations trith France in reference to this important subject. In the Court fif Justiciary the French tnaintaicc.l no less tlisn 4 Judges, one President, three Vine-Ptei;eltws, an Attot- Rey-General, six Advocates-General, and one Etki‘tr.tr, halides other infer i.‘r officers eonneetsti with that Court. the C o urt of Paris thery were Is 4 Jetri:es, one Pre+.ideat, five Vice-Presidents, an Attorney-General, besides mind: o fficers. In each eour royale were from 20 to 40 Judges and one Attorney-General; he alight a/eirtre tit/ Judges at thirty each Court, and the number of' tl,eu Courts amounted to 25, making Ile nwober of Judges in all about 858. Then there were 21a Tribunals of Cora, oterce, the Registrars of which were pail lay Government. . _ The Right lion. Gentleman hero ounntereted the items( • , f expenses attendant on each Court, and exlenlated the aggregate at 11,26.5,465 francs, or 882,856/. Euglisb, whereas the expense of administering juitice in England was only 150,000/. in the suns total. It might, hoar' , aver, he supposed that the expense, beiag so Inardensotod to Government, the French suitors would on that ac count pay less; but this was far fratn isein; the ease, for 1401., the charge of a single rause in France, cc he was informed by M. Leroi, an eminent French advocate, would cover the expenses of ten (misses of a similar description in London and Middlesex. Thus it wts clearly to be leered that the law costs in France et least equalled, is they were not much greeter, than these sseessistoed by the administration of justice in England. The proceedings, moreover, were more prolix, and perhaps he might nfirl. more unsatisfactory than our own, in consepsenee of the lite , questions being so mixed np ith ;he facts of the C4IIIC as 0 , -1 always were in French courts of justice. It was a grease advantage, In his opinion, resulting liens the trial by jury in this country, that it determined the merits of a sass, h y coming to a decision on the facts separate and dis tinctly from the law which might arise out of them. With respect to the present system of administering justice in Wales, he would set aside his individual epinien for n moment, and adduce that of very nnsuspieions witnesses against it. That evident!, was to be found in the Cam- inercial Report of the Chamber of Commerce in Bristol, and the patties concerned had never thought of antici pating that their sentiments, so expressed, would have ever been brought forward on an occasion like the present. The report alluded to represented that those who might be creditors for debts contracted in Wales were obliged to have recourse to Welsh Courts alone for enforcing their claims, but that the uncertainty, the risk, and the din. culties attendant on such a mode of procedure, owing td the inefficient operation and defective constitution of those Courts induced creditors very often to relinquish ;heir deb's altogether rather than to seek them : !sense great loss and inconvenience to the trailing interests of the city of .Bristol.—(Hear.)—The existitig system► of Welsh joli cature he conceived to be erronensa and imperfect i■ every particular. Part of the measure propesel woulei require that fifteen days' notice of action before the Assizes should be given to all persons against whom en action was con templated ; but hitherto such cases werehurried on without giving any adequate time for preparatias, and eenserptently operated unjustly to the prejudice of the defendant. , The Report of the Commissioners had stated, that the expenses of Welsh causes in every stage otonsiderately exceeded those of causes in England. This also was a grievance which it was intended entirely to remove. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by moving for leave to bring " in a Bill for the more effectual administration of justice in England and in the principality of Wales." Mr. O'CONNELL said he was quite willing, to give the Right Hon. Gent. credit for his intention in bringing forward the measure contemplated, hut disclaimed having heard a single word which induced him to believe that the desired change would be in any !wisest an amendment an the system of justice as new administered in the principa lity. Convenient it certainly would he, bath to judges sod barrisals in great practice, whom it would enable to re create and refresh themselves; but he was let to learn that the benefits resultine from this boasted reform would extend to the public. They would have so adilitionel day consumed in their service, nor would tke suitors find them selves placed in a more advantageous position for obtaining justice or redress. A fifth judge, too, was to be added to those who already presided in tie Exchequer ; butefor what purpose? Why, in order to help them to do nothing. There was nevertheless one part of the bill which he could not but approve ot, and that was what related to the prevention of arrests for sums under 100/. Aceordinz to tit!! present sttte of the law, if the meanest wretch chose to swear a debt of 100,0001. against any individual not a member :of either House of Parliament, an arrest and. im prisonment of the party designated would be the immediate consequence. Not long ago a woman in Dublin, win) could neither read or write, bad snide oath to a debt amounting to 60,000!., which she alleged to he due to her from a respectable gentleman, end her affidavit was acted on forthwith. Special pleading also was a subject which he wished to see reformed in all its parts, as it only increased the expense of coming at the truth, and pre vented the parties from coming into the presence of the judge until their resources were previously ex hausted. They then often settled matters by arbitra tion, -which they might have dose in the outset but for this precious system of special pleading. They ought likewise to give every county its local Oset, and facilitate the administration of justice at every man's door. The Secretary for the Home Department had expressed himself favourable to the introduction of such Courts with autho rity to decide cases of small debt ; lout why, when the prin ciple was acknowledged, should they not be extended to large debts as well? This advantage Wales had enjoyed hitheoto ; but it was about to lee deprived of it by the Bill in contemplation. They would heneeforward be con strained to make application in London before icy step whatever could be taken. An American Captain might owe a debt to an inhabitant, and before the writ could ar rive from the metropolis, would most probably pay him by topsail. They must now travel for justice, whether it be in a law case or an equity ease, for it was me longer to be extended to them as heretofore at keine. By the time about four hundred Welsh eaves, tacked to the tail of the list in Chancery, were disposed of, ke supposed saceessive generations of those interested would have passed into the grave. The local tribun di were also to be annihilated; and the Right Hon. Gentleman, in adverting to France, might have recollected that jaseise was there to be had at every man's door ; and in this respect the Freash enjoyed a superiority over ourselves, since they travelled for justice for the first time when they themselves mule an spyeal to the Cour Royale. What consolation was it ti as it they were charged exorbitantly for *tie* P Did their mis fortunes alleviate our owl ? But the Hen. and Learned Gentleman had not enumerated all the expenses attesdaut on the constitution of our Courts when be mentioned 150,0001. as the sans total, which he souls] very easily make appear, if the late hour would permit. In brief, he would for his own pert conceit to cashier half our army and half our Colonies, if by so doing we Ewald accelerate and cheapen the administration of justice.--(Hear.) Sir J. OWEN protested against themessure from a con viction that, by the abolition of local judicature, the costs of law would be more than doubled to the inhabitants of Wale& He was confident that Government would not so far disregard the feelings of the people u to suffer this Bill to go into a Committee before the Easter holydaym. Mr. WILBRAHAM had no doubt bet it would prove highly advantageous to that part of the country to which he person illy belonged. Mr. C. W. WYNN was of opinion that the annihilation of the local Judicature would confer an important benefit on the principality, and he was led to form this conclusion after an attentive consideration of the subject, backed by his own individual experience of the practice in these courts themselves. There was to a certain degree disadvantage in every change, but here the good countertedeere,l Va. evil. Ile hoped, however, that the Bill would set he allowed to go into a Committee before the assists., is order to give time !or examination of its merits. Fie reef' 1A r ;lon'