The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-08 00:00:00

• en re A v i,; to being 01 'ere Nca' )r 0)00d" They b ug well. or in, Oust ,L, ,iced f r ' Pj a ,t) e t , age wag eix entity ill thePrOf t:,,in: professions which Government had made—. Mr, t i ‘' hi ets• he repeatel, should not be lost sight of. r`OkINSON• hopedthat the Hon. Member would Sou k ,. is IN S . that if the ge „, ' els motion, as it was his opinion ,would noperttlicale nf reduction proposed was adopted it w em us . Ployedj'iPriit,tially and unfairly with respect to officers 17:;h to,. IPublic service• He begged to state, th at . it i ll oi 5 'lf littl e m e to make the curtailments the isio . bl . e . pes,i;Patiened until the right of superannuation and . civil l i,, e f Were done away with. As long as this right 44 Place'tlle 3lvines intended by the Noble Lord could in a eisii He did not think that persons employed ...._ f•restei4PkifY hould possess any advantages over othersdil of t he ip)ii4ll,Pl'Yed. To give a proof of the advantages ofS ee ; t ne mentioned, he would cite the instance 0. office foe twenty Commissioner of Customs, who had been in YPl,,6,,tehree.years at a yearly salary of 1,4001. ; and 4 Yea s ` ll , r ,:, retired, he did so upon a pension of 1,200/. Ptr, s , i "hat Was more, the private fortune of ye t a h r e . tls ; ,, ° queetion was ten thousand Pounds a b e tfsl wr,i. Mentioned this case, he did not . m t ean that private ~ fors,llt4tit servants, who had not sufficient 6 1 list s i o ' n 10 maintain them, should have no retiring ''': 4 " H n . Wh en cases of this latter kind came before : tad 1. 6-311 ' they would be considered as especial o w n e e r s e . vel NI; Rouse would concur with him that mentioned was li ast ettit t l ° a eonsideration that the case be tso f Boards e, , f c.,„„jd, 0. With respect to the °I Cm i tn li e lN i nn e", he did not think t p h a a y t m t e l n a_ b e E t a t s i t ia l t n t d h il e 01 lsek;.l, mould he taken as an example, s i ott,,;e:rd should rather look to the generaefir u cum . stances . those mourn Si Nil es , untrY, when he would find that tistlts..ellstni)ellesi men to take situations that requir t ed a -e them a I°l " 'Y ill ''.44.1 talent, an d experience, an' a l to ta ll tuber per. /t. 41, dip remuneration. If the Hon. .M s' 'll4 it his tnotion, he (Mr. Robinson) would feel him -1,• Ni cllfielled to divide with the Noble Lord. ':. ' fl tti r. C°4IETT said that the present discussion dsijke had e r% \i'le hint more than ever of the natural i i'' a tati l l .3 ." l.l to lip three in a bed. But wheneve n r o t t he f y or m t a b d a e t is of a'' was for their own convenience, and not was, that Ns ) , ~4• Ves t what be had to complain of etmploy ment i'' hl th e ';', ° , l 's had been turned out of their l ißht Whigs for no other purpose than that the Whigs ~ , get se 1 , i i : ll 4 ais he. e ) 4 ' w e eelfi,th sinceeel t v h e e s in.—(Oh, Houwaa oh;veaenvdeacgrieers to tt te. : 5 1 , 1 4%....5inee they pressed him e4tt eem e wn uld give one, which wool s ; They had I s t d "I I of his charge against the Whigs. rf kotl i 4 t Sir Charles Saxton, b s r o a hotly proof .t 0 give r , f th a e q I) Drit • • '• 'es, )ard, in order to p Commissioner titiniate o a f d th s e ir Pl G ys . It Cl i f'nt °f themselve, The fact was related .e to w l a ii s m o b il y l khit, 4'ke Saxton, who besides stated that h t his :Perform the duties of his office. The Whits turned /! SlisCitt notwithstanding, giving him a retiringpnsion of 11l Year after they had done so. ty to in reP the Z IT . 4 V 11 6. 11 0 NON ' SMITH beerged to state, la ' for Worcester, about M V trt .41. the Ron' Member • er whom the Bath s i tisiltt thissioner of the Customs, ; t 4 tea t tr4otioned as if his deafness was feigned, though l; h lth iPlet 4 ba d been deaf all his life, and o w o h i. o a . was ) e stated a r ;_ °' c t seg ko 4 1 tbe superannuated list at 1,2 i f „ -4 er s - : t° Stat ewithrespect to the pension,. '''lt• seat h ' . dine to the limits marked t that the 11' i is th ad proceeded according . in the present o' ; 4 1 tia tl , : Superannuation Act. Not only . ''' ' ill, fi t; 444 theV acted according to the principles Ai to t it th e 1 ", it. i„, wh at y fad always acted in accordance with of that l' -44 tot 'it Was said about private fortune, Government I) , tll iis al 'a that into consideration. All , l i .e t had to 1 4 •,,t. P t „ 1 I° ,as the services done to the 4 4;4 C ' s; tl4 high salaries paid to officers in 1 . t . he ne E t.e a s s . t 'l, to Piny 's service, the Company thought it and when Go ' t P i P i t e es eti 4 tler to insure efficient persons, t to,tt ,tequired good public servants, should put that"G ,, ' Me footing, a With re , peCt to paying 1 4 1 t ile a ' ii k , eertiment officers. 4 ; th.llnpiillitilluns from funds . subscribed to by the officers, or i5 : 14 4 111 ,g 4 Portion of their salaries foe .l th it atp ! Chiarbs4lbeen adopted ; but, after tria •kr pint° abando •t was found othpii,'.uTLAß F ri E I R . GUSSON, in acknowledging that 11 "4' W '' Ist y would venture to say hat the discharged ' ''' ',, 41.1" ,,, Paid b the East India Conpany ; th l e h , g.e, of that companyto their sit elt dt lt i t t l 'e high officers manner i, ett l Iv seas not to be surpassed, They were " e str i ,, ' r e all men of the greatest merit. and that those I astsie'sealled by any body of men employed the public than any ..,thioge:hiet"tt Were more like secretaries of he would : e 7 t h „ it Oli the question of superannu ation, rievance, and caused Hean ettue thatWali a great italtllt th at Was a heavy after a service public wih g t upon the people. . ° a ,tai4et thi s scheme n f remuneration,dhedone away with : t ji llt ilat 4 11 ° ) her of years, should k : 11 ths,l4Zu N ituationii were offered t i o e o , ffi w c e e r r e s, wthielliqnugetso ei Pt th iii 'Pot to them, whethett sa S ary, ' without any 1 ,, I re t s ils ' s ituations at a certain It had been said, that 41 4 1),tos h4 m p eran nuation.—(Hear.) *04%1'1 ia Perannuation fund, be made, it ' '11, 414 h e n i ' ll aries. If such a deduction . could a deduction might be Is - Nl s 41 'Y 4 Proof that the salaries were to to t o bes h e ig r h e: Ih i titi ty. "t'eptions that could he made be as new k two— itlY is ' t 'ul d tle When cases occurred, and .Alie4ts eaPtains in the navy— of persons having been th;111 ! „,'., l e Up their previous situations. af I g ° c' - ii' "IRMaeit asked (as we understood) the whet o h as e e r 1 h t . , e l'i' nailer for Wo , cester had alluded, in hs _ If ; ',itlitl thltarnissioners of Customs, to a relation of i ? ' *'site ,''' all usir n anything but correct. i l 1 71 2 9 e l i ii , 11 8 ' ON had not alluded 1 1 tthi, giiti!osl,Et Itit.lolje v E e ls•f . said , whilst House tlie greatestdid the lion. 144 s ad opt c ountry, t h a t not t tre s s ee s m existed over tstitiitttthtt,t, tiPitstreree,:s.ures of economy, the only. waytoreof , 11 ° R. , 14 his calculations on the wages 'NC `"' as Part e il if is theciol th e I l°4l hi -eura Ye To prove their w a e c r c e ur e a a c ll y e , d h l e n wqouuesld -1 i' i, lt s ,, , , 4 :t t ftl,s,•4ye°:er:itt:)ooil;iss o tl w ie n ra p t o e ue of w w e • a a v g e e r s s. he h l ad th p e a A id fa f n or . Di -°l ‘'"l. nti the name of third seventy-fours s'' for 4 1814 he used to pay his weavers r.ua , s t ts, , 16 1 th e li t ''ill " t ' 1 1 4 , 1 4 this. He would then show the o g f ra ls i I t ios ith eti„ ti a ` had taken place. In the latter end piece.—(A laugh, . 5 (1 'ti r , i of , w 'e down to 28. 6 ' l a 1? hil; 4 • Pies i: R ear.") In 1817 the price advanced to 2s. t ° 11 4' N'h'r.l4 to 3s. and to 3e. 6d. In 1819,. dropped 4s. pe ( ; i y, ' ‘ ii , l ,. .: tl it a l r tl Y o.f that year the price o 6 f7 l. eavi n ng o d eto , ' -41 ' Is 'liti I t , September to 2.. 4) 2 1 1 ' isl ce` ln January, 1822, it fel l e es •i 4 'dean Ito 2s. 9d. and to 35., andin Pb th er e tis ie. . 51 eanc e d to 3-. 3d• rel tiai 111 111: 1111 d then remained again to fill to ll ed so 114',i4i23, it dropped t _-- f 671 . , some an d Ihe Pa, 3d - : lb eeemlier, 1825, when thepr to ic 2 e s a . g 6 a d in . 1 6 ' rr, An F ebruary, as ' 4 ' f elt l b k'teti,4Presetit Weight of these reductions, and he, 4 , 4 i e " Ho s „ Itl ve, could not help laying t f l i e l m to fu i l s l . y 9 t d ie .: I 4 ii; Allgt:' In 1826 the price further lBo7 it fell to 5d ''', 1 41 ! t uf that year to Is. 64. to I n n I - then to Is. ill A.)441 of ern ALy of that year rose _B. —, •,. was 0.., 'l4, , -Pt il it f',I;YarCIS to 2s. In Feb. 1828, the price 1 ).. 71 to I'd to 1 s. 9d., then to I s. 61., and afterwards adfo -sekk 41, 9, NI; ' , t o/ . ; u• ; after which it fell is ag 3 a d in ., t a o t l w s. h 6 i 1. , p r and ie e it teis i • 4 4 s tau year was as low as calculation . it would be Ystr, th at Y 4 .1 829. From this Ss; roe,,,,;ue average wages of the weaver during t e h lu ei r r in n g ,a t g h e e s. 4 pi '%, ' l 'lleol was Is. 3d. stPe, or ' Piece, he used to p al e l r ow icu them the oner-fourth he s e ' '' to o : the value of it in money, and that p onsidering the *reo,!;l'll'etl, though the allowance, it h Pite - e 01 the price of weaving, was gre c at H er e than when was led to ete b , Y his fe e l: woven for eight shillings. l t h ' l4 k ""ge, which lie could not contro ,as he I desi 3 ret . l b • 4 ' he rice of labour. 9 . d k 'lti ' O Uld to keep up the P . , k tl , R , toold ti averag e price paid for weaving a piece, a 1° 1 ) D,, 14 lir h a d l'* 5 0 that way only earn 6s. a , week. Out i t last - li t t ; laid intost frequen . tly a wile and tw o children t o o t. I ttiS°S le he should like to ask Hon. Gentlemen 411, 14 1 1t lis e? I ' l'Pon such a sum they would keep suchra '''''iti tal sis ".(L aughter.) In this question ta o k f en su "hey s n t? I„''Y Were not the poor weavers .) super ht bo 4 C 4 he Ze the t the King's subjects . . Should a el.4flitt)tillth'll taken s_a.rYe o n f o , and sho tl ui m d a n n ot oo th n e o i l r ud g e r d ie b va y n de. ;, . I ''"tl i i" . UN, lhe Hon. Gen e ses "lh ie 14 as ' t he workman was sure o . f at leas b t e f i o m od . th ey ll'ii ili,dt'Noktiste'Vard for . his labour, it would The poorer quiet state. , 41. ha t ! ~4 _ eep I n country in a Po: 4 ' t° 1( . 1 te n 7!' l to cxpect mu g c u di relief en f t ro s m ho ß ul e d for ta m ke etai; 4l 4 :l ll 4 t. lif ; n le of their expectations as speedily as ' h r ' , '4 4 s' iltato. deprecated this practice of making Wedist-• 4 ' ii i .. l . t after night of the wages paid to labou.ll - e.get 4\451110ms were not correct. He knew.whiclin, 1 0 1 4 ' vr aplsye'reltenfield) of a large factory, in 44 41 ' l's°opersons, and their wages averaged i ' WV' itimsd• ac tori t , NN ~ Ing children under fifteen. ,u. kne w Wert sigerdistrict::'-'sl-I,S was acquainted with the inat e ew that 'so h i I nq did not know one in which the '' "'eel, 'tt ehih i g la N the last Hon. Member stated. He and re of 4 Oi that t t : ~ fourteen years earned . about 3s. (14. ' 11 tate.i k • 1 1 ' w ages of adults were not higher tl a nin . 4s ' Witl 4 The th is °us , f i, the nianufieturing towns he was were L ''''' the of Which 11Yetage wages of men and women P e d tb: ve re (4,1.1'4 shilling went for lodging, and for . vent kith t Csstr2gsd to labour 16 hours a day. Ile Als, G ,°_. sti lt , "irlent ould make every effort to pre not fall 14°N 'thing " • he 'hos t ti e 5, ,,: ., toning any longer. int'r44 h ands r ti,,,:gered that this last stateme n n t t . did e tlissi):°t_ltist )11 1, as in his part of d S . cot n l o s t l e ti all 't L5Pr deltZt9io4 ll 4 14'Ztl a ho - 1"" I." d ay, d h t certain 4, their average weekly earnings King t be safely put down as not more than ss. 4d. Ordinary hands did not earn more than 4s. a week. The Hon. Member then said that something ought immediately to be done to reduce the expenditure of the Government, or no mau could answer for the tranquillity of the country. Mr. MARSHALL, as connected with the silk manu facture, and well knowing the state of trade in the dis• tricts to which he belonged, could say that wages were generally on the rise. Children, at a very early age, got 39. a week, and the wages increased according to their age from that sum to 65., Ss., and 9s. ; and able work men received as much as 15s. or 16s. a week. A girl of 18 years of age could earn Ss., and a lad of 16 years of age 79. a week. Mr. BROCKLEHURST could say from his own ex perience, that the wages were not on the increase. The lion. Member then read a statement, to show the present state of wages in the silk manufactories in the North of England, from which it appeared that the general rate of wages for men, in 1824, was 18s. ; in 1828, Ss. 5d ; to 1832, 4s. Id. The general rate of wages for young men, in 1824, was 14s. ; in 1828, Is. 3d. ; in 1832, For women, the general rate, in 1524, was 12s. ; in 1828, 6s. 3d. ; in 1832, 2s. For young girls, the gene ral rate, in 1824, was 3s. 6d. ; in 1828, 2s. 91. ; in 1832, 2*. ; and for children the rate, in 1824, was 2s. ; in 1828, Is. 9d. ; and in 1832, Is. An HON. MEMBER (name unknown) said, that in Ire land the milk trade had sunk to a mere trifle. There were, at one time, 2,500 looms employed in the silk-trade in Dublin, which at an average employed five men each. so that the whole number employed was above 11,000, but that it appeared from evidence taken before the Committee appointed to inquire into the state of the silk trade, that at present the whole number of looms employed in Dublin in that trade was 150, which, at the same ave rage, would employ only 750 persons instead of 11,800, as formerly employed. This showed the state of distress which was at present in Ireland, and was a clue to the disturbances which distracted that country. Mr. R. STEUART complained that a great many sa laries had been raised some years ago on account of the depreciation of the currency, but that no reduction had been made when the change was made to a metallic cur rency. He thought the motion of the Hon. Member for Evesham a very important one. They had an opportu nity, not only of comparing the salaries of those who were overpaid for their services, but also of considering the wages of those who were underpaid fur their labour, but on whose industry they depended for the funds to pay the public creditor. It was from them that the large sums paid into the public treasury, as duties on malt, soap, hops, candles, and other articles were received. And it was proper that attention should be paid to the remune ration which they received for their labour. He trusted that the subject of the wages of the working classes would become more and more the subject of discussion in that House, and he hoped that Hon. Members, whether they sat o❑ that (the Ministerial) or on the other side of the House, would not neglect to remind the Ministers of the necessity of high wages and high profits, or no taxes. An How. MEaramt (name unknown) rose amidst loud cries of " Question, question," and " Divide." He was of opinion that such wholesale motions as that made by the Hon. Member for Evesham, instead of forwarding the object which Hon. Members had in view in making them, tended rather to impede their intention. He would only bring one or two instances to show the absurdity of such a general motion. By the Hon. Member's motio❑ 10 per cent. was to be taken off the salary of those who had 1,0001, In such a case, he (the Hon. Member) thought such, perhaps, might safely be done ; but then the Hon. Member proposed that 10 per cent. should likewise be taken off the salary of the clerk who bad only 120/. a year. Did the Hon. Mover consider that in these cases the proportions of reduction were equal? To him (the Hon. Member) it appeared so preposterous, that he should give the motion his most decided negative. He was sur prised, on the former evening, to hear an Hon. Member assert that the present Government had made no reduc tions, or had no intention to make any. After the state ment of the Noble Lord (the Chancellor of the Exche quer), he was sure that no person would say that Mini• stern did not make every reduction which was consistent with the public service. Mr. HUDSON replied. The House was then cleared for a division, but we un derstood that none took place. NEW HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. HUME then rose to bring forward his motion re garding the necesalty of building anew House of Commons. He said that a Gallant Officer, who was no longer a Member of the House, had, during last session, brought the subject under their consideration, and showed, what must be apparent to all, that the present House did not afford adequate accommodation for the Members. The Gallant Officer then obtained the appointment of a Com mittee to take into consideration what improvement might he made in the present House, in order to procure addi tional accommodation. That Committee had given in a report, in which they stated that the space for the accom modation of Members could not be enlarged so as to accommi date all the Members, nor the ventilation be improved ; but that, by an outlay of 14,0001., fifteen feet might he added to the length of the House, which would accommodate from seventy to eighty Members ; and that, in no way whatsoever, could any addition be made to the breadth of the House. From the evidence of Sir Geoffrey Wyatville, it appeared that the House was thirty-three feet wide and forty-nine feet long, and that it could not contain more than one-halt of the Members. The body of the House, in cluding the eras-benches, could not, by any possibility, contain more than 340 Members ; but, from Sir Geoffrey Wyatville's evidence, it appeared that, allowing two feet for each Member, only 294 could sit comfortably in the House. In no public assembly in the world was the accommodation so bad. The old Members were long aware of it, but it now must be apparent to every new Member of the House, from his own experience, that it was not calcalated to contain near the whole of them. On the occasion of the late division on the Irish Disturbance Bill, when every seat was occupied, there were only 366 in the body of the House, and about 100 in the gallery, but then they were wedged in like herrings in a barrel.— (A laugh.) It appeared to him quite preposterous that the business of the country should be carried on with such miserable accommodation. It was sufficiently trying for the constitution of most men to sit for ten or twelve,— or, as it sometimes happened—for fifteen hours in the House, even if they had the very best accommodation ; instead of which the House was in such a state, that he had known several gentlemen who fell a sacrifice to it. The want of ventilation was peculiarly felt. He be lieved that the ablest men in England had been employed to ventilate that House, but without being able to sue ceed in it. In short, the Committee, who had been appointed to take the matter into consideration, were una nimously of opinion (with the single exception of the Chairman) that the present House of Commons did n .t afford adequate accommodation for the Members ; and it he were to put it to the vote at that moment, whether or nut it did afford proper accommodation, he vas sure there would not be one dissentient vuice.—(Cries of " No, no," and cheers.) He would therefore move, " That the Re port of the Select Committee of last session be referred to a Committee, to consider further the expediency of bui!d ing a new House, and the expense that would be incurred thereby ; and to report the evidence, and their opinion on the same." One of the inconveniences attending the present House was the time lost in taking divisions. Twenty minutes were lost in emptying the House, when the one party went into the lobby ; and even then some gentle force had to be used to get them out. That was an inconvenience which could not be remedied, as no alte ration could be made which would improve the entrance, Now, to be sure that, by the new alterations, the minority, in which number he unfortunately generally was, had to go out, that inconvenience might not be so generally felt ; but there was another serious inconvenience, that those of the minority who went out for a division on a crowded night, might probably get no seat on their return. He knew, that in much private business, many lion. Members would not vote in the minority, for fear of losing their seats. This was of some consequence, for it might happen that a question would be decided contrary to the real opinion of the House, merely because Hon. Members did not choose to risk the loss of their seats; and Members might be counted as in favour of a question who were really opposed to it. The best way to remove this inconvenience, which he considered of consi derable importance, was very simple, and it would, be sides, procure hem better accommodation otherwise. It was to build a new House of Commons Immediately ad joining the present House. From the report of the archi tect, he found that there were two ways of accomplishing that object, neither of which would cost above 10,0001. more than the sum which would be required to make , the alterations formerly proposed on the present House. The new building would only cost 20,0001. in building. the first proposal was, that the new building should be erected between the present House and the river, where there was a sufficient space for that purpose ; the second plan proposed was, that it should be erected in Cotton-gardens, on the site of the house now belonging to Mr. Lee. There were objections to placing it in Cotton-gardens, on account of its being surrounded by the House of Lords, and the offices con nected with it ; but there could be no doubt of the pro priety of building it between the present House and the river. The present House could then, either in whole, or in part, be converted into a lobby for the new House, which was the very best use to which it could be turned. He thought this plan far preferable to any plan which could be proposed for the improvement of the present House ; as, after spending much money on it, it would be found, after all, very defective for the accommodation of the Members, and of the public. Where so much public business was carried on, the very best accommodation should he afforded ; and as for the expense, it was, after all, a mere bagatelle—(Hear, and a laugh)—a mere trifle in the annual expenditure of the country. At all events, be did not consider that it was a question of money. it was a question of whether or not those who attended there for the public service ought to be properly accommodated. —(Hear.) He admitted that there were many recollec tions connected with the present Howe which endeared it to the old Members, and he entered into that feeling as much as any man ; hut he thought that such feelings should give way to utility, and it was on the ground of utility alone that he hoped to see the plan effected. He wished no steps to be taken hastily, though he was conti ,lent that no person could deny the absolute necessity for better accommodation. Indeed, he should have been the first to make a motion on the report, with but little anti cipation of many dissentient voices, " That the House did not afford adequate accommodation;" hut, in consequence of some communications with several influential Members, and particularly with the Noble Chancellor of the Ex chequer, he had thought it better to refer this report to the Committee above stairs, submitting the consideration of the expediency of the contemplated new building, of the estimated expenses, &c., entirely to their judgment. He thought that the House would thus be able to procure much better information than in any other way. He should, therefore, move, that the report be referred to a Select Committee. • Mr. WARBURTON cordially seconded the motion. Be considered it indispensably nscessary to obtain proper accommodation. According to the calculation of Mr. Smart, the dimension of the House was but 700 feet; now, as according to the calculation of the same gentle man, each Member's sitting dimensions are estimated at two feet by three and a half—(A laugh)—there is just sitting-room enough in the House, reckoning in the space under the gallery, for 350 Members, at the estimated allow ance of two feet by 3i- per man.—(A laugh.) Now the other night, at the great division, there were not less than 560 Members present; so where the surplus 110 found twhat was he to call it ?)—accomodation—he was at a great loss to conceive. --(Hear, hear.) It was said— " Oh ! but a great many Members sit in the side gallery ;" it might be so; there might be some Members who oc casionally resorted to the gallery; but as there in most cases required six feet room instead of two,—(A laugh)— he did not see that this argument materially altered the case. Neither did he approve of the oblong shape of the House. The Right Hon. Gentleman who filled the chair had not, like James, eyes in hie head--(Laughter)—he meant to say, the Right Honourable Speaker had not the advantage of a more than ordinary number of eyes; he could not see what might be going on behind him— (A laugh)—he could not detect the disorderlies who took advantage of sitting in the rear of the Chair.—(Renewed laughter; Hear.) Now the Speaker ought to have the whole of the Members in front of him, seated in such order that his eye might be upon all or any of them. He (Mr. Warburton) trusted that there would be a new House built for them by next session—he considered this very possible ; and he hoped to see it done. The question being then put, Lord - ALTHORP'obeyed the call made by some of the Hon. Members and addressed the House, though his in tention had been not to speak on this question. which he thought a question for the Members themselves to decide, being altogether one connected with their accommodation and convenience—not a Ministerial one.—(Hear.) He certainly could not deny but that when there was a full House, the Members suffered great inconvenience. For himself, he must confess—perhaps it might be the effect of a sort of prejudice—that he should be strongly averse to changing the locality of the House, though (as we understood him) he should not object to having alterl tions made in the present House. However, he bad not the slightest objection to refer the matter entirely to the Committee. Sir ROBERT INGLIS thought with the Hon. Mem la.e. for Middlesex, that as a matter of pounds, shillings, and pence, there could be no objection to the alteration proposed ; the expense would be a mere trifle, supposing a necessity for that alteration ; but he did not see that any such necessity existed. He did not, of course, mean to say that there was sufficient accommodation fur such full houses as assembled the other night ; but these only oc curred two or three times in the course of a session; and, therefore, the question amounted to this—was it neces ssry to build a house large enough to accommodate the whole body of representatives, who only assembled as a collective body on very extraordinary occasions—some two or three times a year.? For the remainder of the year's business this House was better adapted than any building he knew. There were most important matters discussed when only one hundred and fifty or two hundred Members were present, and this number the house could accommo date excellently. The question, therefore, amounted to this—Were they to build a house capable of containing a body which met collectively but three times a session, or were they to remain contented with this building as it stood, which, as he had stated, was quite large enough to accommodate the Members who sat there the rest of the session? Besides this, lie could not but think that the moral feeling of the Kam would suffer a great shock in quitting a building which had so often been the scene of the most splendid eloquence of all the great men who had raised the name of this country superior to all others. —(Oh, oh !) He was, therefore, averse to the change. An Host. MEMBER thought, that as all the representa tives of the countay ought duly to assemble whenever there was the least question concerning the welfare, the happi ness, or the misery of the people, there ought to be a House sufficiently large to contain them. Sir Robert Inglis had stated the number of extraordinarily important occasions for the assembly of the whole House at about three times a session. He (the Hon. Member) thought there was ,ouch more frequent occasion for their meeting. He should, therefore, advocate the erection of another building. Mr. C. FERGUSSON coincided in opinion with the last speaker. The present building might be large enough for the discussion of Turnpike Bills, Read Bills, and so on, hut it most certainly was far from affording adequate ac cotnmodation for the reception of that collective body of representatives whose duty imperatively called upon them to be present at the discus , ien on every important ques tion. An Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Inglis) had seemed to argue that the representatives of the empire in leaving these sacred walls would leave behind them the inspira tion thrown over them by the glorious recollections of the great men who had rendered this pile illustrious by the splendour of their eloquence. This was all very well; and it he (Mr. C. Fergusson) had been happy enough to find that the present Members were rendered one jut greater or more illustrious by the memories of the great men—of the Pytns and the Ilampdene—whose presence had digni fied this House, then would he be the last man to pro pose any alteration in locality; but as he had not found this beneficial result, and as he considered the question as a pure matter of accommodation and convenience, he should certainly support the proposed alteration. Some of the Members the other night had been told they must not speak on a question of the utmost importance, because they were not in their places ; a great number of Hon. Members, according to this rule, would nightly be prevented from delivering their sentiments, fur in the pre sent building there were no seats for them at all. Mr. BUCKINGHAM made some observations, which were totally in .udible in the gallery. Mr. HOWARD solemnly protested against all altera tions. He had been in three Parliaments, but had never experienced any deficiency of room. He had heard uo convincing reasons of the expediency of a new building. The argument adduced by an Hun. Member with respect to dimensions was most fallacious. That Hon. Member stated, that each gentleman required a space of not less than two feet; this was most fallacious, for it was notorious that the soldiers—(Laughter)—a class more broad-breasted and stout than any, or at least as any of the Hon. House—(Renewed laughter)--required no greater a space than eighteen inches.—(loars of laughter.) It was dreadful to his mind to propose to change the place where the Representatives of Great Britain were to meet. The Romans—(Shouts of laughter)—the Romans— (Renewed laughter) —never changed the place of assembly for their Senate throughout. The Romans—(Laughter)— never altered the Forum Romanum.—(The peals of laughter became now so incessant, that we found it utterly impossible to do justice to the Hon. Gentleman's eloquent observations for some time; as far RA, from disconnected sentences, we could collect, they tended to show that the good or bad success of legislative measures would altoge ther depend upon the place whence they emanated.) Far was it from his wish to destroy this unassuming House— (Roars of laughter) —h e did not mean the Members who _(Renewed l aug ht er )—h e wou ld never con sceoinaiptoosetdiesitt roy this sacred fabric. And what was it pro posed to erect in its place? A semi -circular, theatrical sort of building. This would nut be half so good as the present. He had seen all the assembly-rooms of Naples, of Italy, and France, and never had he seen one more advantageously adapted for every purpose than the present. The laughter prevented our catching the whole of the Hon. Member's next observation, but it bore refsrence to some mystery in acoustics, which, as we uffilerstcod him, " would entirely prevent them from adapting any other house SO sell fur hearing as this." The Hon. Member then reverted to the shock that every moral feeling would suffer at leaving a house rendered so sacred as this by a series of great men. " You, Sir, would it he indifferent to you to leave a seat which has had the illustrious dis tinction of bearing the great Sir Thomas More : of him who withstood all the regal intrenchments—(Roars of laughter)—of his arbitrary Master, and the arbitrary Cardinal Wolsey? Surely not." The Hon. Member con tinued to address the House some time longer, but incessant calls of " Question," mingled with occasional bursts of laughter, at some expressions which fell from the Hon. Member, prevented us from hearing any of hie remarks. On the Hon. Member resuming his seat, Mr. O'CONNELL rose to say one word to the House in sober sadness. He asked the House whether it were not desirable, that whatever was done in that House, the public should be made acquainted with it in order to know the proceedings of their representatives? How could that be done if there were not sufficient accommodation for that portion of the public by which alone the whole could learn ? It was desirable that accommodation should be given, and not that the communication should be made by stealth. The thing was now done. The public would not suffer that it sould be discontinued. If it were a matter of such decided necessity that it could not he dis continued without causing a revolution, should they not provide convenience for those who gave the debates to the public? He would give such accommodation, if it were only that it might not be said, " The Hon. Member was inaudible." If there were no other reason but that, he should say they ought to make sufficient accommodation. He could not carry back his historical recollections of the House so far as some Hon. Members, but he thought the Hon. Baronet, the Member for the University of Oxford, did not carry his far enough back. The Hon. Member forgot that the House was called St. Stephen's Chapel, and that at a former period mass was said in it.—(Hear, hear.) How could the Hon. Member bear a spot which had been consecnited to the worship of the Catholics? However, they had now come to common sense.—(Hear. hear.) The question was, was the accommodation suffi cient ? He cared nothing about Cromwell and Pym having sat in that House, he wanted to know whether the representatives of the people had a convenient place or not for transacting the public business 2—(Hear, hear.) He believed not: and there was only one remedy—to send 105 of them back to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Captain DEANS DUNDAS would never consent to vote away 130,0001. of the public money while the people wanted bread. He did not expect that a motion of such a description would have come from the other side of the House. Mr. MAURICE O'CONNELL reminded the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman that he had voted away large sums of the public money.—(Oh, oh !, When ?) The Gallant Officer had voted against the motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex for the reduction of sinecures. Captain DEANS DUNDAS was happy that he had an opportunity of explaining the vote he gave on that oc casion. He bad been asked by several of his constituents why he had not voted for Mr. Home's motion? and the answer lie gave was, that he understood from the Hon. Member for Tralee, or some other Hon. Member who spoke on the same side, that it would be proper to in• crease the pay of the officers of the army and navy. He belonged to the latter ; and being persuaded that the of ficers of the navy, to which he belonged, should be paid as they now are, he had voted against the motion. The question was then agreed to, and the following Committee appointed:— Hume, Joseph Littleton, E. J. Althorp, Viscount Milcimay, P. Ashley, Lord l'cel, Sir It. Darlington, Earl of Wilbraham,G. Baring, Mr. Fremantle, Sir T. Burrell, Sir C. M. !Fox, S. L. Carter, J. B. !Buckingham, J. S. Lowther, Viscount Warburton, H. Wrottesley, Sir J. B. Tracy, H, Molesworth, Sir W. O'Connell, M. Clay, W. Baldwin, Dr. Wallace, It. Divett, K Duncannon, Visc. Denison, W. J. listcourt, T. G. B. Lefevre, C. S. Hall, B. Humphery, J. Davies, T. CLERKS OF THE PEACE. Mr. HODGES then moved that a Select Committee he appointed to inquire into the fees, charges, and emolu ments of the clerks of the peace and the clerks of assize in England and Wales, and to report their observations thereupon, together with the minutes of evidence taken before them from time to time, to the House. Mr. HUME wished the inquiry to be extended into the fact of who received the fees ; and whether they who received them did the duty. Mr. HODGES said that the inquiry would embrace the whole subject. Mr. SLANEY recommended that an inquiry should be made into the local taxation of the country, which had gone on increasing, while the general expenditure of the country had been decreased. It now amounted to 9,000,0001., and he was sure that by dint of care a large part of that sum might be saved. Motion agreed to, and the following Committee ap pointed:— Hodges, T. L. Grahatn, SirJ. R. G Peel, Sir It. Althorp, Viscount Lowther, viscount Eastnor, Viscount Carter, J. B. Somerset, Lord G. Palmer, R.! Denison, J. E. Lamb, Hon. G. Cartwright, W. R. Dawson, E. Phillipps, Slaney, Sanford, E. A. Mosley, Sir 0. Lefevre, C. S. Inglis, Sir R. H. Strickland, G. Blamire, W. Pease, Joseph Price, Sir R. Gisborne, T. Baring, A. Fremantle, Sir 'l'. Portman, E. B. Ihmemniv, W. Knatchbull, Sir E. Clive, H. H. l'endarves,E. W. ‘VilrriOt, Sir E. Tancred, H. W. Lttleton, 'E. J. Estcourt, T. G. B Stanley, E. Evans, IV. Aglionby, H. A. I Select Committee iency of continuing VACCINE BOA Mr. WARBURTON moved that be appointed to inquire into the exped, the Vaccine Bo ird: Mr. HALFORD (we believe) suggested that economy might be carried too far. The Board, be was informed, was very useful, and care ought to be taken before it was broken up. The following Committee was then appointed : Warburton, H. Littleton, E. J. Wallace, R. Peel, Sir R. Hodges, T. L. Labouchere, H. Lamb, I-lon. G. Baldwin, Dr. I Romilly, E. Rice, T. S. Sinclair, G. Ferguson, R. Swart. W. Oxmantown, Lord Phillips, M. Strutt, E. Pease, Joseph Home, Joseph Buller, C. Marshall, J. , Ashley, Lord Halford, H. Potter, R. DISTRIBUTION OF THE ARMY. Mr. HUME rose to ask the House for some informa tion on a subject of considerable importance, in relation to a question that would come before them in a few days. He wished to know how the troops were distributed be fore voting the estimates. Such a return was laid before the House last year, and he did not know why there should now be an objection to his motion. The Hon. Member moved for an account of the distribution of the military force in Great Britain and Ireland, and in each of the Colonies, in the year 1833. Lord ALTHORP hoped that the House would give him credit for being always reAdy to give every species of information required, vs henever it could be done with propriety. With respect to the motion of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, he wished to remark that a simi lar one bad been made in 1819, and agreed to. A simi lar motion was also made and agreed to last year ; but in the interval between these two motions, no such infor ma ion was ever asked for, or laid on the table of the House. He believed, too, that the motion in 1819 was the first of the kind ever granted. He admitted, there fore, that he should feel it his duty to grant the informa tion granted at these two periods, if there were no objec tions, as he supp ose d t h ere were not, t h en, on the score of the public service. But he appealed to the House whe ther it might not be very inconvenient if it should settle into a custom of laying this information on the table of the House. There must be maw,- occasions when it must be very injurious to make the public acquainted with the exact amount and distribution of the military force of the empire.—(Hear, hear.) If it were to be habitually laid on the table, it would be extremely difficult for the Go vernment to roluse it, when it might be inconvenient to grant it. That made him object to granting it this ses sion. That, however, was his smallest objection to the motion. He objected strongly to making this the constant system of the House. On the present occasion he felt very strongly that there were many circumstances which ren dered it extremely inconvenient to lay such a statement be fore the House as was demanded by the motion of the Hon. Member. He was the less scrupulous, indeed, in now opposing it, because the information, in consequence of its having been supplied last year, was not required. On the two grounds, then, of its being at present inconve nient, and of its being wrong to make such a return ha bitually, he should oppose the motion. Colonel DAVIES supported the motion. He could not understand the objections of his Noble Friend. The coun try', it should be remembered, was in a state of profound peace. Did his Noble Friend apprehend the danger of a foreign attack or a domestic insurrection ? Certainly, the apprehensio n o f danger front abroad was a poor reason for refusing the tnotion, because there was no Foreign Power interested in knowing it which could not, in spite of all precautions, ascertain at any time the strength of any gar rison. In his opinion the information should be granted, or they could not be prepared to vote the army estimates. Sir J. HOBHOUSE said the information required was in great part before the House. The estimates themselves stated what force was in Great Britain, what in Ireland, and what force was in the colonies. But the Hon. Member for Middlesex wished to know exactly what amount of force was in each colony. Such a return had only been cads twice before, and it was curious enough that the re lino of 1819 was made in detail by the Adjutant-Genera!, when he was not required to do so. This deposition o' the army was left to the discretion of the Crown, and what portion of it was to be employed at home, or what portion of it abroad, the Crown had to decide, and not the House of Commons. Circumstances might arise witl which only the Ministers of the Crown were acquainted. which might make it necessary that the manner in which the army was disposed of should be concealed. At present, for example, what various interests were agitating in the colonies in the East Indies, in the West Indies, and in almost every colony ; and would it b? prudent to tell the whole world how many regiments were in each colony? That would be grossly imprudent. In fact, it was neither more nor less than exposing to all who had hostile intro. tions towards this country, the distribution of its force, for the returns, though nominally made to Parliament alone, were open to the entire globe. Mr. O'CONNELL hoped the House would insist, as was its duty, on having the returns. They should not proceed on guesses, either as to the number or expenses of the army. Sir J. HOBHOUSE said that the expense was epeci• fled in the papers on the table.—(A laugh.) Mr. O'CONNELL replied that, granting that there were no returns to show whether the aggregate amount of expense was a proper one or not, the Noble Lord, i❑ refusing the returns, relied upon his character. Lord ALTHORP observed, that he resisted the returns because, if furnished, they would do injury to the public service, otherwise it was the bounden duty of Ministers to grant them, but he had not, he believed, relied upon his character. Mr. O'CONNELL—But the Noble Lord added, that he was not in the habit of withholding proper information. —(Hear, hear, and Ob, oh.) The Hon. Secretary at War maintained that it was the prerogative of the Crown to dispose of its armed force as it pleased, but it was equally the privilege and duty of the House not to vote money fot the payment of the forces, if any information it deem necessary Vag withheld from it. The times required that a rigid inquiry should be instituted into the numoer of troops, in order, that if there were one drummer or fifer too many, they should be dismissed. Before a single shilling was voted, they should have a clear account of the number and distribution of the troops. An HON. MEMBER said that the matter ought to be left in the hands of the Government, and quoted the ex pedition to Portugal, under Mr. Canning's Administration, as justifying his opinion. At that time there was great doubt whether the force should be drawn from Gibraltar or other parts of the Mediterranean. Mr. W. WYNN never knew any Member insist on such returns, after it had been declared by Ministers, on their own responsibility, that the returns would be injurious. It was interfering with the undisputed rights of the executive power. But the most singular circumstance was, that a military man, upon being told that they would be incon venient to the public service, should ask " why ?" That was the most extraordinary question he had every beard from a military man.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BOLLING said a few words, which were inaudible. Mr. SHEIL thought it hard, that while information of this nature bad been granted in 1819 and 1832, it should be now withheld. Captain DusinAs and Col. TORRENS opposed it. Mr. HUME begged to remind the Gallant Colonel that his motion did not press for returns later than the let of January last. The apprehensions of the Secretary at War astonished him; it seemed that this country was to be attacked the very next day. But why had there been no allusion to this perilous condition in the King's speech ? —(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Flume) thought the country was in a state of peace, and that the King's speech might have contained a recommendation to reduce the military establishonent.—(Hear, hear.) That was what the people looked for. Still, notwithstanding the warlike appearance of the House, he did not think it could consent to main taining a standing army of 90,000 men.—(Hear, hear.) It was perfectly useless to talk of repealing taxes, unless the establishments were reduced. In his opinion the army might be reduced by ten or fifteen thousand men—(A laugh)—or at least a great part of that number. His ob ject was merely to ascertain the total number of troops in England, in Ireland, and in Scotland. In Canada there were 5,000 men, not one of whom was necessary to that state. When he (Mr. Hume) should hereafter prop•se reductions of the army, the universal cry would be, " Where will you reduce them?" How could he tell, when he was now refused the details of their distribution? —(Cheers.) In the lonian Islands, for instance, he did not know whether there were three, four, or five thousand men, nor whether the troops might not be entirely with drawn from them.—(A laugh from Mr. Wm. Brougham.) Mr. HUME—Perhaps the Hon. Gentleman think that the islands belong to this country. In Southwark they didn't know it. The Hon. Member was then pro- ceeding to address some observations to the Secretary for Foreign Affairs, when a Member called out " Question." Mr. HUME—There will be questions in plenty ; but it is hard that one cannot ask a reasonable question without being laughed at. Lord PALMERSTON said, that returns of the army had been made which extended through the last fifteen years. But it was said, Why, then, refuse them for ISM ? But that was exactly the question in dispute.—(Hear.) The fact was, that the object of the Hon. Gentlemen op posite was to vest the command of the army and navy it, that House.—(Loud cheers.) This he resisted, as most dangerous and unconstitutional. The Gallery was then cleared for a division, when there appeared— For the motion Against it 2Ol Majority for Ministers On the motion for reading the order of the day for going into the Committee on Ways and Means, Mr. COBBETT rose, but, owing to the noise of filling the Gallery, was at first inaudible. He commenced by alluding to the resolution on the subject of taxation which he was to have brought forward. He had alreaoy mentioned that there was a mass of taxation amounting to eight millions annually, of which the nobility, clergy, and great lindowners, paid little or nothing, but which fell almost exclusively upon the tradesman, the farmer, the workman, and the industrious classes generally. He had proposed to bring forward a resolution, recommending the House to take this subject into their consideration. It had since occurred to him, that whilst the unfortunate question of Irish affairs was before the House, it would be better for him to defer bringing forward his motion until that great question was fin illy settled. He mentioned this lest the House should imagine that he meant to abandon his motion. Mr. S. RICE rose, apparently under considerable ex citement, and, with peculiar vehemence, said that he wished the Hon. Member for Oldham had brought for ward his motion, or at least, that he had not intimated hi. intention of abandoning it in such a manner as to pro pound an argument, and cause an inference. He dis puted the argument, end he denied the inference.—(Hear.) He would tell the Hon. Gentleman, that all he asked of the House and of him, was a clear stage and no favour. He would dispute every inch with the Hon. Gentleman. He denied that there bad been, on the part of the Parlia menc, any disposition to oppress the people. It might snit the object of the Hon. Gentleman to make anal state ments.—(Loud cheers.) But he would meet him—aye, he would meet him, he was not afraid to cope with him— (Laughter from the Opposition) —yes, he would rope with him foot to foot, and shoulder to shoulder, and might God defend the right. —(Renewed laughter.) The Hon. Member might take the privilege of Parliament—he might put anything in print for the purpose of deluding the people ; but such a system should be exposed—he would expose it, by himself be would do so.—(Laughter from the Opposition.) The Hon. Member for Oldham had made one as-ertion, he would make another—he de Glared open hostility on the subject; let the discussion come, and then the public will decide. Mr. COBBETT ruse amidst loud cries of " Spoke, spoke." He intimated a desire to expla;n. The SPEAKER—Mr. Cobbett, in explanation. Mr. COI3BETT-1 omitted to say—(oh Spoke, spoke.) Mr. O'CONNELL said the Right Hon. Gentleman who intimated so eager a desire fur the discussion, ap peared, from his state of preparation, to have an ad vantage over those on that side of the House.—(A laugh.) In sober sadness, however—(Hear) —did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean to deny that the Hon. Member for Oldham had abstracted the schedules to the Stamp Art correctly? If he had done so, why, let him remember that vulgar arithmetic never fails. It was not denied by the Noble Lord (Althorp), that he had abstracted them cor rectly. The only defence which the Noble Lord set up was, that many other taxes were in the same situa tion. It was, however, of no consequence. He did not fear, although the Right Hon. Gentleman was so chival rous as to dare the Hon. Member for Oldham to the comhat.—(4 laugh.) Common ►ense would triumph over Treasury dexterity. There was another part of the Stamp Act which he would just allude to—the stamp upon alb!. tration was 20s. If the matter in dispute was worth 50,0001. it was of no consequence—it was no more. But, oss ing to this, the poor man was prevented from dr tiding questions, which were to him of importance, in a cheap way, because the stamp would frequently amount t, as much or more than the value of the subject in dispute. Mr. SPRING RICE-,-He bad a question to put to his aimed Friend.....(Lond cities of U Spoke, epoke,u mid(' which the Right Hon. Gentleman sat down.) Mr. HUME said that in order to preveut any dispute, he he* both combatants would choose an early day ler deciding the question between them. Bat he must say that his Right Hon. Friend would be a much more clever man than they had yet given him credit fur on that side of the House, if he could refute the proposition that thr. 'axes on stamps pressed unequally, and that the principal burden was thrown lon the poorer classes. They haLi often heard of the influence which property ought to pe,. seas in this and that case, of the deference which was duct to property; but be thought it high time that the House . should h ear somet hi ng a b out property b earing its fair share of the burdens of the country.—(Hear.) He did not doubt that the Hon. Member fir Oldham would not shrink from the fight, although he was challenged to suck iearful contiguity so foot to foot and shoulder to shoulder. Mr. FRYER comp l a i ne d that the landlords had, on all occasions, thrown the burdens of the State upon the people. The people had been oppressed by the landed oligarchy of the country. Mr. HOWARD rose, and spoke for some time amidst continued roars of laughter. The scene which occurred during the Hon. Member's speech is, indeed, indescribable. He appeared to urge upon the Mini s t ers t h e propriety of repealing the house and window taxes. He then said that lie hoped, when the Budget was brought forward en the sth of April, it would be found that Ministers paid some attention to this point.—(Some observation was made by a Member in the neighbourhood of the Hon. Gentlern lie begged pardon; he hoped that when the Budget was brought forward on the let April—(Great laughte r) really, he must complain of the want of courtesy of the Right Hon. Secretary at War.—(Laughter.) The Report was then ordered to be received. On the question that it should be brought up, Mr. COBBETT rose to supply the omission which he had made. He had said that the nobility, clergy, and landowners had for many years thrown the burden of 8,000,000/. of taxes upon the industrious classes of the community, bearing a small part of it themselves. He omitted to say, but he would now say it, and he was pre. pared to prove it, that they had done so premeditatedly, designedly, and dishones.ly.—(No, no ; and Hear, hear.) Mr. A. SANDFORD hoped that when the Hon. Men , = her brought forward his resolution he would not forget to mention to the other side all the taxes which were borne exclusively by the landed interest, and which they had im posed on themselves. Mr. COBBETT—I deny it. The Report was then ordered to be brought up. Mr. HUME then rose to move the reduction of the du. ties on sugar. His motion was, that the duty should be reduced from 245. to I9s. The duty had been increased as a war tax, but it had not since been reduced. It would be highly beneficial to the West India planters, as well as to the people of this country, to reduce the tax. Even an ad valorem duty would be most advantageous. The lion. Gentleman then proceeded to recommend the equalization of the duties on West India and East India sugars. He was convinced that it would not injure the West Indian planters, whilst it would enable the inhabitants of our East Indian possessions to pay for the manufactures of this country in native produce. Mr. STEWA/IT would not go at present into the question of equalizing the East and West India Duties ; and although he and all who were interested in the West Ladies must feel obliged to the Hon. Member for Middle sex, yet they did not think the present a fitting time fur refusing the annual duties, his Majesty's Government being engaged in the consideration of the important sub wet of the West Indies, and all things showing the proba bility of an approaching settlement of that question. Mr. HERRIES was happy to hear the probability of a satisfactory arrangement on this important subject. Before the House, however, confirmed the vote of the Committee of Supply, be begged to call their attention to what appeared to him to he s great constitutional principle, and that was, that the House should not be required to vote money until it had been declared to them how tha money Wl4 to be expended. The Right Hon. Gentleman here entered into a distinction between those votes of Ex chequer Bills which were merely to supply the votes of the last year, and those votes which were votes of was a and means for the current year; cont en di ng t h at , a l t h ough the.former were justifiable, the latter were not so. In support of this proposition, he referred to the course pur sued in former years, and expressed his regret that the Noble Lord opposite had not taken an opportunity of mak. ing, in the first instance, his general statement of expen diture and ways and means. Hearing as he (Mr. H.) every day did, promisee of a repeal of taxes, which he knew must be disappointed, he felt that the sooner the public were undeceived on that point the better. Lord ALTHORP, adverting to what bad fallen from the Hon. Member for Middlesex, admitted that a decreases of the duty en sugar would have the effect of increasing the consumption, but he doubted whether that increase (4 consumption would be such as to secure the tevenue from material loss. The last reduction of duty was from :27• , . to 23e., and the revenue lost the whole of it. The amount of revenue which would be sacrificed by the pet position of the Hon. Member for Middlesex was 1,800,0001. Of that the greatest part would be utterly lost to the revenue ; and if he (Lord Althorp) were to propose a smaller reduction, the whole of that reduction would be lost to the revenue. As to the proposition of the Hon. Gentleman that West India Sugar alone should he consumed in England, but that at the same time the duty on East India Sugar should be diminished, which of course would bring it into competition with West India Sugar, it appeared to him to be entirely inconsistent. But, under any circumstances, when it was recollected they were about to enter on the one hand into the discussion of the East India Charter, and, on the other, into the settlement of questions deeply affecting the West India interest, it was surely advisable to abstain at the present moment from making any extensive change connected with those sub. jests. He now came to the statements of the Right lion. Gentleman, who had contended that it was the general practice and habit of that House not to vote ways and means until it had granted an equal amount of supply. The Right Hon. Gentleman had made a distinction be tween the supply for the payment of outstanding Exche quer bills, and the supply for the expenses of the currery t year. But it appeared to him (Lord Althorp) that tliA objection of the Right Hon. Gentleman to the vete under consideration, if it were not entirely technical, partook largely of a technical character. For, it must be remem bered, the vote of sugar duties of last night was but the first step, and the reception of that vote to-night would be but a second step in the process of imposing those duties. Those duties could be actually imposed only by Bill, the whole course of which might be discussed and dispu ed ; so that, practically, the House had just as much power over the duties as if they bad not been voted in the Cone mittee of Supply, and might stop the progress of the Bill if they were dissitisfied with the manner in which his Majesty's Government proposed to apply the duties. Mr. HUME said the amendment on the resc4ittqa should be introduced now, or else it could not t, f eintro. duced at all, fur what was agreed to in the Cosam,lasese could not afterwards be altered in the Huns,. The amendment was then put and negatived without 46 division, and the resolution was agreed to. The other order, of the day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at a quarter-past one. STATE OF CRIME IN ENGLAND.-By return laid before the House of Commons, on the motion of Mr. O'Coloir.ht, the state of crime in England and Wales, in the year 1832, appears to have been as follows: —. The number of persona committed for trial was 20,829, of which 3,313 were females. No bills were found, and no prosecutions took place, in 2,166 of these ca►es ; 2,716 were acquitted, and 14,947 convicted. Of these 2,449 were sentenced to death ; and 54 were actually executed ; 3,906 were sentenced to different terms of transportation ; 9,181 to different terms of iuipri.onment, some with hard labour, fines, or whipping ; and 402 to whipping and fines. About 12,000 of the crimes proved were larcenies of different descriptious ; the burglaries were 118 ; fraudulent offences 280; game law offences 163 ; manslaughter* 66 ; murders 20 ; shooting at, stabbing, and administering poison, with intent to murder. 52 ; riots and felony 44 ; robbery of the person on the highway, 223 ; sheepetealing 219 ; receiving stolen goods, 847 ; and breaking thrashing -in ichines, Sec., 17. COLONEL MAC KINNON'S ORIGIN AND SettvicEs Or THE COLDSTREAM GUARDS.—" Ti C subject was not unworthy a masterly pen. L—the history v a regiment, with which the Colonel himself is so honor ? ably connected, which has had an individual existences name in our chronicles, from the days even of the c° monwealth, and which has always been distingaished its gallantry—the Coldstream Regiment of Guards. Wk i t renders such a work greatly interesting is, that in tracing the career of one division of our national furo r , the auth or is necessarily led through the wi d e course or our military undertakings, and to give a general view of deeds of our armies in the eventful times of our great civil war, in the ren owned campaigns in Flanders, and, fluidly ' in our l ate most glorious transactions in the peninsular and at Waters. 100. Colonel MAC KINVON has suerftded, by evident diligence, intelligence, and judgment, in forming a sarrs, tiYe full of general intereet."—Morning Manuel. - 44