The Sun. — London, England, 1833-06-14 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ~. 'IIOTISIt OF doil . MONS,,'Jiniti 13. The SrEamt-took the Chair shortly after 5 o'clock. kmessage from the Lorals announced that their Lord ships had given their assent to several Private Bills. Mr. Preston, from the East India-house, brought Up certain annual returns, which were laid on, the table. Admiral 'ADAM presented two petitions from the shipowners of Alloa and• Kincardine, complaining of the injury which had been produced by the operation of the Reciprocity Acts, and praying the House to take their case into their consideration. ' Mr. HUME denied that the shipping interests had at all suffered by the Reciprocity Act. The allegations in the petitions were without foundAtion ; and all he wished on the subject was that the reciprocity system were universal. Mr. G. F. YOUNG supported the petitions, and con demned the reciprocity systeifi as most disastrous to th e best interests of British navigation. He had given notice of a motion on the subject for an early day, when he should be able, he believed, satisfactorily to demonstrate this to the House. The petitions were referred to the Committee on com merce, manufactures, and shipping. Sir R. FERGUSON gave notice of his intention to move, on a day which we did not hear, for a Committee to inquire into the state of the representation at Warwick, and moved that the issue of a new writ be deferred till the Slat inst. Mr. CLAY presented a petition from the parish of All Saints, Poplar, praying that in any renewal of the East India Charter the privilege of trading with China might be continued to the company as well as to others of his Majesty's subjects. Mr. G. F. YOUNG supported the petition. Mr. EWART was induced to oppose it. Lord DUNCANNON brought up the report on the Irish Grand Jury Bill. Colonel CONOLLY recommended Government to withdraw the Bill for this session. It was not believed that this Bill would have any good effect. Mr. O'CONNELL concurred in the same view. Lord DUNCANNON said if the Irish Members would only lend their co-operation, the Bill might be rendered available and useful. Colonel CONOLLY said the Committee had been so limited in its powers and sphere of inquiry, that it could not address it-elf to the main substantial grievances of the present system, so as to relieve them effectually. The report was then ordered to be taken into farther con sideration on 'Wednesday next. Mr. EWART rose to make some observations on his proposed measure to abolish the law that made capital punishment imperative in cases of burglary. One of the alterations which he intended to propose WlB, to make it necessary that if a burglary was committed by en tering a house, the whole body of the offender should have entered ; and another was, that to be guilty of a burglary, so as to suffer capital punishment, the offender should be proved to have gone armed, or to have deposited arms. He intended to do his utmost to bring in the Bill this session, but, at any rate, he would take the earliest oppor tunity of bringing it in next session. The Honourable Member then obtained leave to bring in a Bill to abolish that part of the law which makes it imperative to pronounce sentence of transportation for life in cases of burglary. Several Hon. Members withdrew their notices for to night, at the suggestion of Lord Althorp, that Mr. Charles Grant might have the opportunity of making his state• rnent on the subject of the East India affairs. Mr. LITTLETON, in answer to a question, said steps had now been taken which he hoped would render it unnecessary to call out the military any more respecting the disputes in Ireland about tithes. THE EAST INDIA QUESTION. On the motion of Mr. C. GRANT, the order of the day for the House going into Committee on the renewal of the East India Company's Charter was read. On the question that the Speaker do leave the Chair, Sir GEORGE STAUNTON rose to propose a series of resolutions regarding the trade, such as he proposed on a former evening. He was aware of the difficulty in which be was placed by the failure of his attempt last week to carry those resolutions through the House. The subject was one of very ereat importance, and he was fully sensible of the boldness of a person who had been so short a time in the House as himself in bringing it forward. He had acted under an impression—perhaps it was an erroneous one, but it was one which those with whom he was connected also enter tained—that from his acquaintance with China, and from the official and other sources of information which he pos. cessed respecting it, he should endeavour to explain his views to the House upon so important a question, when an alteration was contemplated in the East India Company's Charter. Whatever he should feel it his duty to offer to the House in any other stage of the question, he would not detain them now, because he knew the House was anxious, and naturally so, to hear the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. C. Grant). The only object be had at present, was to place the resolutions on the Journals of the House, as he was sure they contained the principles which ought to be taken into consideration on this important occasion. The Hon. Baronet then read his resolutions, which have been already published. The resolutions were then put and negatived without a dieist o rt, and the House resolved itself into Committee. Mr. C. GRANT said that he rose, pursuant to the notice he ItaLd given, to bring before the House the subject of the East India Charter. He was persuaded that the House would agree with him that that sti ,, ject was second in importance to none of those which had lately occupied their attention. He might even go farther, and say that, in reference to the vast extent of territory concerned, and the multitude of human b ings whose fate rested on the decision of the House to-night, this subject claimed priority of importance even over those which had already so anxiously absorbed the attention of the House. At the same time he was per fectly aware that 'the subject was one which wanted that exciting and strong interest connected with some of the other topics which had lately been before the House. It therefore peculiarly behoved him to entreat and bespeak the indulgence of the Committee to the details into which he should be obliged to enter. Those de rails must of course in some respects be tedious and uninteresting, but be trusted the House would do him the favour, or rather he doubted not that the House would do its duty by really attending to the matters he should bring under their consideration. He called their attention from topics of great political interest to one in which no party or political feeling need be mixed up. He trusted that no party feeling would be mixed up with it, and that Hon. Members would not approach the subject without bearing in mind that the principle on which they were to act was to benefit the natives of India, and through them ultimately to benefit this country. Indeed, the benefit of the natives of India was the paramount duty they would have to discharge this night.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was happy to think that the subject was not entirely new or strange to many of those whom he had the honour of addressing, the various Committees which had sat on India affairs of late years having rendered many Members familiar with them. The resolutions he would submit to the House would be few and simple, and the observations he should make would relate chiefly to the discussions which had taken place between the Governor and the East India Compiny, with the result of those discussions. The papers 'elating So the airangetnent between the East India Company and Isis Majesty's Ministers had been before the House for some weeks, and before the public for some months, and bad, both in and out of doors, been amply considered. In stating the resolutions to the House, it would be his duty to 'state some other measures, which, though not embodied in these resolutions, he thought it essential, with the permission of the House, to introduce in soy Bill that might be founded on the resolutions. These were measures of a general character, to which it wou'd be necessary for him to call the attention of the House. The principles involved in those general measures, Le must admit, had been amply developed in the correspondence which had taken place. Having made these prefatory re marks, he would now approach the subject of the future government of the eastern world and the claims of the coun try upon India. In stating the general measures his M ajesty's Ministers had in contemplation, it was necessary first to deal with the existing interests of the trade of India with this country: In doing so be should first make some observations- upon the discussions to which he referred, and be would state generally some particulars with which he hoped to obtain tbe concurrence of the House. Toe ques tion, then, first, was with respect to the trade of this country with the East Indies and the eastern world generally. With respect to the particular administration of India, the first question naturally was, why any ch ange s h ou ld take place ? To that he would.ewer gener a lly, that Parliament having fixed a period for the revision of the existing system of government for India, it became essential for the House and the Government to enter into the merits of the case, sod also to takeinto con. eideration the great change of circumstances -and the pro gress of events that had taken place. In looking at the con dition of the -political--administration of ~India, he cared not what anomalies might exist, the only question with him being whether those measures had produced any be neficial effects. There had been many complaints with respect to the administration of the Jiiirs of Witt by .the gag India Crigarily, be admitttd. . In reference to the more vibe Vital bleesingelhey enjoyed, as to security of property an d rs onal freedom, the natives of India might surely be said to 'ay more than they had enjoyed under any preceding Sovereign. If he were asked to contrast their situation with that of the colonies—of Portugal—of Spain—of Holland—and even some of those of England, be might surely claim for the natives of India superior advantages. This was a question which involved the happiness of 100 millions of fellow-creatures, and he would ask, what would have been the fate of the immense empire they inhabited if oppression had been continued to be exercised towards them. Going generally into this quesion, he might assume that there could be no grounds of complaint against the government of the Easy India colonies for the last fifty years—he could not go back to an earlier period, because he felt that he must condemn as much as anybody the conduct pursued in the East India colonies under the administration of the Earl of Cornwallis. But subs( quently to that period the government of India, with all its faults and failings, was calculated to give sub stantial benefits to the country, which theretofore had been tormented by a succession of enemies, open to all acts of injustice, and having no security whatever.—(Hear.) For that people it was neceseiry and highly advantageous that a government should be found whose brilliant career should not depend on a morbid inactivity. The East India government was a government which gave to the natives what they wanted—repose, security, and tran quillity. It protected them from encroachments and danger ; and the very circumstance of the jealousy which arose from the system of the monopoly, gave security to the natives from the encroachments of others. In this respect it gave not only advantage but the greatest repose. It was said long ago that the East India Company had then bad their charter for many years, and it was inquired what benefit had been derived from it ? The same ac count which was given then was to be repeated—that re pose, tranquillity, and security had been afforded to the natives. The natives were uncouth, they bad no proper conception of anything; but within the last 12 or 14 years the entire population had acquired a political existence. It bad grown up tinder Government, and acquired those right feelings which enabled it to take advantage of pro per laws and regulations. Twenty years ago, it was never dreamt of to give a political existence by any charter to the natives of India. Now it would be considered by every discerning person as a mania if this country were to think of dealing with them by charter, or in any other respect, without regarding them as in the enjoyment of a political existence.—(Hear, hear.) The influence of the East India Company operating slowly through their government on the people of India, not by violent convulsions having its effects suddenly, but by the ameliorating exercise of kindness and virtuous ex ample, had greatly tended to the improvement of that people. There were other reasons for the continuance of the ad ministration in the East India Company. He would not allude to them at length ; but there was one circumstance to which he could not but allude—that it was by the inter position of that Company, between this country and the people of India, that India had been protected from those c-ntinual vicissitudes of political party and ambition which had been felt in this country, and which would have opposed the most formidable impediment to the progress of that people. He had now stated shortly some of the reasons which had induced Government to believe that on the whole it was the wisest plan to continue the Company in the possession of the administration of the country. He thought it was clear that any other form of government might be liable to the same inconveniences with which the East India Company's government was formed. Any other form Ki government would be likely to pro. duce very considerable evils. What were the circumstances that marred the efficiency of the East India Company's ad• ministration ? One circumstance was, the union of its trade with its government. This had been a generally admitted principle, he thought, until he heard to-night two Hon. Members arguing for the Government to continue the East India Company, both in the administration of the laws and in the trade with China. It was felt, however, to be a great inconvenience that the Government should be permitted to carry on the trade. He objected to it, not on the ground of theory merely, but of practical inconveni ence. He said more than this—that the union of the Sovereign and the trader in that country was calculated to give a false impression of the character of the Government. The object of the trader was mercantile profit. That was otce the object of the East India Company; but although that was now no longer their object, the people could not help thinking that their rulers were still governed by that ancient principle. Nothing, therefore, more marred the perfect efficiency of our government in latlia than the union of trader and Sovereign.—(Hear, bear.) Another circumstance which tended considerably to mar its efficiency, was a want of proper control over the expen diture of the subordinate presidencies. This control was deficient not only in the Government at home, but in the supreme Government of India. The effect of this hid been that the subordinate presidencies had in volved themselves in expenses without reference to the real necessities of the case. One reason of this un doubtedly was, that the East India Company, being engaged in commercial pursuits, and drawing its divi dends from commerce, was not compelled by any ne cessity to control the expenditure of the revenue derived from territory. He did not mean to say that the members of the East India Company were more indifferent to the prosperity of their territorial revenue than others would have been in their situation, but simply that they bad no peculiar interest in attending to that revenue, and that consequently it could not be expected that they should watch its expenditure so narrowly as it ought to be watched. Another circumstance which had interfered with the efficiency of the government in India was, the interference which too often took place from home.—(Hear.) It was essential to the well being of India that confidence should be placed in its administration, and that, as far as possible, the interposition of the borne authorities be confined to cases of a strong and extraordinary nature, or rather to cases of a general na ture. All that depended on the administration of the government in India ought to be left to the administration there. Raving once resolved to place confidence in those to whom they delegated the government of India, that confidence must he very large indeed, or otherwise the government there could not be efficient.—(Hear, hear.) He thought for the reasons he had mentioned, as well as for other reasons, the nature of which was well known to the House, that it was on the whole most expedient to maintain the political administration of the East Indies in the hands of the East India Company. He would now say a few words regarding the trade of that Company.—( Hear, hear.) The House was aware that the Company had now the monopoly of an exten sive trade to China, and the question was, in what manner the House should deal with that part of the sub ject. He scarcely knew whether it was necessary for him to enter at any length into that question,because it was one on which the people—he meant the nation—had made up their mind.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Ile felt, however, that if, as a Minister of the Crown, that decision was tint founded in justice, it would not he proper to come forward and propose it. Therefore he would confess it was not merely because it had been decided by the people, but it was also on other grounds that he proposed to open that trade. As far as regarded the voice of the nation, he roust say that it was not the clamour of the moment, but it was the voice of an enlightened community, formed during a succession of years, and particularly during the period since the last renewal of the Company's charter. But he would refer to the course of events, and the pro greas of commercial enterprise. It was impossible for any person to look at the progress of our commercial system during the last 10, 15, or 20 years, and not to know that it was impossible any longer to continue restrictions on commerce. Our commercial policy fifteen years ago was restrictive, and although many restrictions had been removed, yet he admitted that there were others which it would be better not to remove.—(Hear, hear.) It was well known that up to the period to which he had just referred the whole of our trade with every part of the world was one of restriction. Wherever the specula- tion of the British merchant directed him, he was met and fettered by restriction. But at length the growing in telligence of the nation burst those fetters, and set a great part of the trade of the country free. The example of England was not generally followed, but it could not be long before the intelligence which had brought about the change here would spread itself over other nations and produce the same result ; " See through this air, this ocean, and this earth, All matter quick and bursting into birth." The germ of improvement was growing fist, and would not be checked, and when other nations should have fol lowed our example, it was to be expected that, with ruck creative wealth as we possessed, we should still go on with the principle of free trade, as became a great com mercial nation. We should make a complete departure from that little narrow line of commercial policy which we had heretofore pursued, and wl ich, however it might liave obtained fur us fragments of the wealth of other countries, was not calculated to bring us to that eminence of immense wealth and imperial glory to which he hoped we were still destined.—(Hear.) The exclusive privilege of the trade with China upon every ground must now be considered to have ar rived at its natural termination. But there were circumstances which, even if the House and coun try were prepared to continue the m o poly, would require its termination, There were cireutit:tances aeNan N ieted with the trade itself which called for its termi nation. In consequence of the diminution of the profits of the trade, the East India Company felt themselves sonic time ago obliged to abandon the Indian trade. The China trade was a trade decreasing rather than increasing in profits. There was, however, a further necessity for putting an end to that trade—it was, the particular relation of this country with the Chinese. That, in his opinion, constituted a main difficulty against continuing the monopoly.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The Chinese were a sensible, jealous, and capricious people. They were despotic and arbitrary, and there might cir cumstances occur that would excite a collision between them and this country. That, among others, was with him a most material ground why the exclusive privileges of trade to that place ought not to be continued. He spoke of them as men who had done their duty well, but their position was a most invidious one. At one time they were 'compelled to interpose with all the weight of their national character—at other times professing their inability to do any thing in matters of great consequence. It was a necessary consequence that their position should excite suspicion. It was further said that the monopoly of the Hong merchants required that there should be a monopoly to meet it. But it appeared that in the earlier part of the history of the Company's trade, there was no such monopoly in China—there were licensed merchants certainly—but it was in 1715 that an attempt was made to institute the present system, which Was strongly opposed by the Company and successfully resisted at the end of six years. In 1760 the attempt was re newed, and was then successful. Therefore, he thought that when the monopoly of the East India Company was put an end to, there would also be an end to the monopoly of the Hong merchants. Year after year brought news to that most sensitive and suspicious people of the great and important victory obtained by the Company. In 1818 there was the Nepaul who actually sent a regular embassy to the colonies, praying for aid, but they did not move till after the war was concluded, when they made application to the Governor-General, that th e residents settled at Nepaul should be removed. Then came the Burmese war.—(Hear, hear.) How astonished the China caravan must have been to find in one of their annual visits to Burmah, that they had not to deal with their old customers, but found the English quietly settled in the place. All this must have given cause of jealousy to that most sensible people.—(Hear.) In his opinion a regular representative of this country would not be liable to these suspicions, as be would neither be connected with commerce nor the country. The trade with the country had most wonderfully increased. In 1814, the trade, which was only 10,000 then, had in 1826 risen to 60,000. The total value of the trade with China in 1813 and 1814 amounted to 131 millions, while in 1829 and 1830 it had fallen to 113; and the private trade, which in 1813 was nine millions. in the years 1829 and 1830, had risen to thirty millions.---(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then went into some statement re lating to the management of the trade at Canton, particu larly es regarded the licensing of vessels, and showing the impolicy of having t%-ese licenses withdrawn at the will of the super-cargo. • The Hon. Member for Hants, in his resolutions before the House, and in the observations with which he had introduced them, inferred that the trade with China should be opened gradually. Now, in point of fact, such was already the case, and con siderable progress had already been made in so open ing the trade as not violently to offend the prejudices of the natives. If, fifteen years ago, that Hon. Member bad been asked what steps should be taken for the gradual opening of the trade, he would have no doubt answered— you have a peculiar people to deal with, and have to take into account the high influence possessed by your traders, from their wealth and character. You mast, therefore, be careful how you deal with the subject. You must make it your business to admit foreigners who will deal with the natives on the most just and equitable prin ciples of trade. Your next step must be, to admit English traders independent of the Company, whose tran sactions with the natives should be so regulated as to ad vance the confidence of the Chinese. You must then proceed by discontinuing gradually the system of contracts, and of making advances upon them, in order that the natives may begin to be habituated to general trading, so that at length they may begin to know more fully the feelings and circumstances under which commercial transactions are carried on. Now, it so happened that these were the very steps which had been proceeded with during the last 15 years. The Chinese, as a nation, are not so void of commercial enterprise as is generally supposed. Their seas ate already swarming with vessels subject to the laws and chances of commerce.—(Hear, hear, hear.) One year yielding gain, and another causing a loss to their proprietors.— (Hear, hear.) It might he, however, some time before the Chinese were prepared for an entire alteration in the system of trade originally adopted in that country with strangers, whilst they had certainly shown a disposition to meet a change of some sort. The Right Hon. Member then read a memorial presented to the Viceroy of Canton by the traders of that city, stating that within a certain period there would be an alteration in the parties trading with that place, and that the chief of the trade, residing at Canton, might help to lay down the exercise of his functions in that capacity. The answer of the Governor was to the effect, that he hoped, whatever change might take place, that in the 13th year—the pe riod mentioned by the memorialist—there would be some chief of trade or other appointed at Canton. It would thus be seen that the Chinese were fully prepared for some change or other.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Member then mentioned the circumstance of an expedition having been sent to Canton, to different places on the Chinese coast, to ascertain the feelings of the natives, which expedition was accompanied by a gentleman who was so conversant with the Chinese language and customs, that the natives would not believe but that he had been a deserter (rein them, although the authorities at the different places were at first averse to any intercourse with the vessel, yet in a vet y short time, the people were eager to converse with the voyagers, and were con stantly crowding round the vessel. At length the progress of the trade in opium had arrested the attention of the Imperial authorities. The Emperor having heard of ire progress, sent in a very grave and just remon strance, for he must say there was much sound sense and shrewd observation in it. The Governor of Canton de clared it to be illegal, and commanded the authorities to assemble, and make such provisions as would bring it to an end.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") The late Vice roy of Canton bad declared that there was no possibility of stopping it hut by expelling foreigners, and that he said was inconsistent with the tenderness of the celestial empire, and he actually proposed that the trade should be legal ised by imposing duties on it. It was necessary, there fore, that there should be a functionary or functionaries resident at Canton, who should be armed with considerable power, and he therefore proposed, according to the analogy that had taken place in other instances, that his Majesty should be empowered by the Bill to issue a commission to such persons as he should think fit, and arm them with all the powers which their situation should demand, for the purpose of watching, protecting and main taining British interests in that country. It was most likely, if the person or persons chosen were men of discretion, that, by prudent dealing and actual separa tion from all commercial transactions, and by an impartial and honest fulfilment of their duty, they might conciliate the Chinese authorities. It had been said, that for this purpose a system of negotia tion should be opened with the Chinese themselves. •He adverted to those treaties with China, and observed that though they had not been hitherto very- satisfactory in their results, yet that it was to be expected greater success would hereafter attend them. He would just allude to the proposition which had been made by the Hon. Member for Hants. He (Mr. C. Grant) differed from the Honourable Gentleman, and he did so with feelings of deep regret, because the opinions of that Hon. Gentleman were entitled on almost all subjects to the greatest respect, but particularly so as regarded the affairs of the East. He was the first who made him self acquainted with the Chinese language, and familiar with the manners and habits of the Chinese people, and consequently he must be presumed to entertain such pro found knowledge as to make it necessary for him (Mr. C. G.) to differ from him with great diffidence. The result of former embassies had not been encouraging, and he hardly knew what his Hon. Friend meant by saying those embassies had succeeded in recognising the national character.—(Hear.) It required peculiar cautio❑ how we committed ourselves by entering into negotia tion,. With respect to the Russians, the c ise was very different—the two countries were contiguous to each other, anti it was necessary that there should be certain precautions taken against inroads. He did not think there was a great trade between the two countries; and the House could not but recollect th it in consequence of two ships going from Russia to the empire of China a war was almost inevitable. He thought even if he agreed with his Honourable Friend, that further embassies should be continued, this would be a very ill-chosen time to commence them. He thought it would have the effect of praducing great embarrassment. In his opinion, it we did not ourselves sound the note of alarm, the Chinese would receive a functionary of ours as the Chief of the British nation, and all proceedings might go on peaceably, and with success; but if we commenced negotiations, the very instant those negotiations were communicated, that communication would be received as the note of alarm, and what the consequence might he, no one could foretell. On that account be thought it not advisable to com mence the dangerous plan of a negotiation. About two years ago, on the occasion of the interruption that took place in the intercourse with the Chinese at Canton, the subject of entering into such a negotiation had been under the consideration of his Maj-sty's Miuisters, and upon the grounds which he had just stated they had come to the conclusion that it was liable to considerable objec tions. He did not think it would be necessary for him on this occasion to enlarge at any length on the question of the China trade; but as it was a subject which was re garded with great interest in this country, these were one or two points connected with it to which he thought it right to advert. The trade of the East India Company to China, with the exclusive privileges appertaining to it, would cease in April, 1834. It would, therefore, then be open to all the merchants of this country to enter into it ; and the question now was, whether the company should send out any ships this season, seeing that the whole of the trade would be open next year. The ships that would go out now could not return from China until the latter end of next year, or early in the commencement of the year after ; and, therefore, having been asked for his opi nion on the subject by the Directors, he had recommended them not to send out any more ships than those that were at present under orders for China. When the trade should become open, he bad no doubt that there would be an abundant supply from the Chinese market to answer the demand of this country, and at present there was a very large stock of tea in the warehouses of the East India Company. The amount of tea in the warehouses of the East India Company at present was sufficient to supply the consumption of this country for two years, after the cessation of their exclusive trade in April, 1834 ; and therefore if there should be any interruption to the supply of tee, owing to the cessation of the trading of the com pany, which was not at all likely to occur, there was a suf ficient supply here at present to meet the consumption of the country for two years from April, or even June, 1834. The proposition had been made that sufficient time should be allowed to the East India Company to dispose of their tea after 1834, before the private trader came into competition with them in the market; but on the whole he thought that it would be better not to interfere by law with their private concerns. With regard to the duty under which tea should be admitted when the trade was opened, he was ready to admit that an ad valorem duty had some advan tages, but he thought that one disadvantageous effect of it was to augment to an undue extent the price of the article on which it was laid, and that another disadvantageous effect of it, in a commercial point of view, would be, that it would not only be injurious to the trade, but that it would very much narrow the extension of the consump tion of the artic!e on which it was laid. On the other hand, a rated duty which was in every other respect pre ferable to an ad valorem duty, had this peculiar disadvan tage attending it—that unless proper precautions were taken, it would press unequally and unjustly upon the lowest class of the consumers of tea. The difficulty, then, which they had to avoid, was the alternative of resorting to a rated duty that would be the same upon all classes of teas. Now, on looking at tbe evidence of gentlemen who were peculiarly qualified to offer suggestions on the sub. ject—at the evidence as well of gentlemen connected with the customs, as of those connected with the tea trade—it would be found that they concurred in recommending, not the imposition of a rated duty upon the whole amount of tea consumed, but that teas should be classified into four or five different classes, and that a rated duty should be fixed on each separate class, and that in that way relief not only would be given to the lower class of consumers, but that tea would be rendered cheaper to all classes of consumers.—(Hear.) As the subject was surrounded with difficulties on all sides, it seemed to his Ma jesty's Ministers that to propose a classification of teas, and to impose on each separate class a different rated duty, was the best mode of proceeding to adopt. Sach had been the course adopted in the United States before the duty on tea had been taken off there, and the concurrent testimony of all who had been examined as to its effect 4 showed that it operated in no way to diminish the re venue, while it had not an injurious effect upon the con sumption of the article in question. He did not think that the private trad, r should be confined in the ware housing of his teas to the warehouses of the East India Company.—(Hear.) He was sure that the number of warehouses would be such as to be sufficient to supply any demand for them. There was another point to which he would briefly advert, namely, as to whether the traders to China should be restricted as to the size of the vessels which they should be empowered to sail there. He was aware that this was a point involved in much difficulty, and that the opinion of experienced individuals had been given as to the necessity of fixing those vessels at a cer tain rate. He would not say whet opinion his Majesty's Government had formed on that point, but as an indi vidual be would say that he could not conceive any neces sity for the imposition of such a restriction.—(Hear.) There was another question which related to tbe basis on which the trade to China should be established. That ques tion was, whether tea should be allowed to be brought from other parts of the world, as well as from those from which it was at present imported by the E rat India Company. He thought that the present limits to which the trade of the East India Company was confined were extremely wide, em bracing as they did the whole of the coast from the Cape of Good Hope to China, and he thought—(Here the Right Hon. Gentleman dropped his voice so that the ter mination of the s-ntence was altogether lost.) There was another circumstance connected with the East India Com pany, with regard to which he wished to nye few words. It was to be borne in mind that the company was at pre sent an importer to a large extent of raw silk into this country. They kept up a large establishment of finishers of silk in India for that purpose, and the importation of that silk was obviously of great importance to the manu facturers of this country. Now, when the trading of the company was to be put an end to, it would be most un wise that this supply of silk should be suddenly stopped, and it would he most unjust towards those finishers that they should be thus at once thrown out of employment. He therefore intended to propose that the Company tirould be still allowed to empley them, while it would be the duty of the Government of India to seek out capitalists into whose hands the trade should be thrown, so that the em ployment of those finishers should always be continued, and the supply of silk, which was so important to the ma nufactures of this country, should never fail. In point of fact the supply of silk would only be continued with the Company until proper parties could be found in whose hands it could be placed. He had to apologize for being obliged to trespass at such length on the attention of the House. He came now to another part of the question— namely, the species of compromise which had been pro posed by the Gevernment, and which had been acceded to by the East India Company. It would not be necessary for him to enter into a specification of all the details of it, seeing that they were already before the public, but he would simply and shortly state to the House that the plan was this--that on the East India Company's surrender ing all its rights and privileges, it was proposed by his Majesty's Government that the authority of the government of India should be continued in the hands of the Company for the period of 20 years, that their commercial privi leges as a trading company should cease, and that in con. sideration of their giving up those privileges, an annuity should be granted to them, the amount of such annuity to be charged on the territory of India. It was calculated that the 'resources of India would be sufficient to supply this annuity, which it was proposed should be 630,000/. a year, being the amount of the dividends which the pro prietors at present received, and it was to be redeemable at the rate of 1001. for every 51. 53. of annuity. It was proposed that the guarantee fund should amount to 2,000,0001. for securing the payment of the annuity, as well as for paying off finally the capital stock of the Com pany, and it was proposed that the annuity in question should be paid for a term of 40 years, at the close of which period it should be paid at the option of Parlia ment, giving three years' notice, to redeem it at the rate of 100/. for every Si. ss. of annuity. He had already stated that it was proposed that the East India Company should retain the political administration of India for a period of 20 years, at the end of which period they might, if dept ived of the government of India, demand the pay ment of their capital ; bat that if, at that period they did not demand it, then that the payment of the annuity he bad already stated was to be continued for a term of 40 years. He had thus stated to the House a general view of that arrangement which had been proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, and to the basis of which the East India Company had agreed. The Right Hon. Gentleman (i n reply to a question of Sir Robert Peel across the table) proceeded to say that no part of the security for the pay ment of the proposed annuity was to be dependent upon the revenue of this country, that it was to be totally inde pendent of the finances of this country, and that it was to be altogether secured upo n t h e territorial revenue of I n di a . —(Hear.) This arrangem ent was , o f course, a compro mise between India and the East India Company's pro prietors; and though it certainly was an advantageous one for the Company, it Was also an advantageous one for I n di a . Here the Right Hon. Gentleman entered into a statement of the commercial and territorial assets rat the Company, to show that the compromise which was pro posed by the Government was an advis a bl e one f ir b ot h parties,—for India and for the Company. It was an ad visable one for the Company, as they would receive an annuity equal to the amount of their present dividends for a term of 40 years, at the end of which period they would receive the full amount of their capital. On the other hand, it was a fair compromise as regarded the territorial possessions in India. In the first place, there would be no increase made to the debt of India, by the payment of this annuity of 630,000/., or by the payment of the 12,000,0001., which it was proposed to make good to the Company at the end of the term of 40 years, as the pay ment was provided for so as to occasion no increase of that debt. It was provided for by the purchase of a portion of the redeemable debt of India, upon terms that would be advantageous to the holders of that debt. It was a great advantage, besides, to them, to have that debt legally re cognised, as it was under this plan, and secured in the ter ritory of India. He had already stated that this was a com promise, and even supposing that it might be regarded as a liberal one towards the Company, still he thought that the country derived great advantage from it, by having this important question thus quietly and amicably settled, in stead of having the Government and the Legislature involved in angry and interminable discussions with the East India Company.—(Hear, hear.) It appeared to his Majesty's Ministers, that it was most important and de sirable that this question should be settled without entering into a contest with the Company that would be sure to excite ill humour and irritation on their part, the avoid ance of which every one must anxiously desire ; and it was upon that, amongst other grounds, that his Majesty's Ministers r-commended this plan for the adoption of the House. After contending that this proposition did not go to throw an additional burden on India, and that anything that India would have to pry under it would be more rim counterbalanced to it in the advantages which such an arrangement would produce to India, he proceeded to contend that the revenue of India, on the increase of which there was every reason to calculate, would be amply sufficient to discharge the amount thus guaranteed to the East India Company. He was sure that a country with such an extent of population—with such an extent of coast—with such a number of great and navigable rivers—with a fertility that had been always proverbial— with a people remarkable for their industry and their ap plication —a country, in fine, possessed of advantages that had always maintained for it the character of a magazine of wealth--he was sure, he said, that such a country would always have a revenue sufficient to meet the just demands upon it. It appeared, from the evidence wh:ch had been given before the Finance (East India) Commit tee, of which his lamented friend the late Mr. Hyde Villiers was Chaitnian, that in 1828-1829, the revenue of India amounted to about 22,000,000/. sterling.— (Hear.) It also appeared that the debt of India was 40.000,0001., which was only double the amount of one year's revenue of the country. There was surely nothing discouraging on the face of that statement as regarded the revenue and resources of India.—(Hear.) He was aware that the Burmese war, which occurred in 1824, had been productive of considerable charges on India. It had made an increase of 10,000,6001. to the military charges, and the civil charges were increased at the same time. In 1827, the directors sent out orders to India that measures of reduction should be taken so as to reduce the expendi ture to the standard of 1823-1824; and Lord William Bentinck had, in the course of two years, acted with such vigour in pursuance of those instructions, that in 1828-29 he had reduced the annual expenditure from 18,000,000/. to 16,000,0001. Thus in two years 2,000,000/. bad been reduced in the expenditure. The same principle of redaction had been ever since in progress, and there was no doubt that in two or three years the expenditure of India would be reduced to the standard of 1823-1824. It appeared from the evidence given before the Committee, that even during the period of the Burmese war in 1824, there was an increase of revenue, so much so, that there was 1,000,000/. surplus over and above the expenditure. How, then, could it be said that that war rendered an increase in the revenue of India impossible ? But it was contended that the expenses of that war had exhausted the country. Now, when they spoke of an exhausted country, they meant, in common parlance, a country on which taxes had been imposed to a great amount to meet a heavy debt. Now, in point of fact, though the debt of India had been increased, the taxes had not been in creased. In fact, they were the same in amount as they were prior to that war, and the debt had been met in another way. He bad no doubt in a short time the revenue of India would rapidly increase. The Right Hon. Gentleman entered into some calculations to show that such would be the case, and be especially contended that it was likely to follow as one of the consequences of the plan now proposed by his Majesty's Government. If he looked to the average revenue for any three years, he was convinced that under the proposed alteration there would be an increase. This increase, according to accurate cal culation, might be stated at, prospectively speaking, 198,000/. in 1834, but allowing for casualti , -s, might confidently be estimated at 150,000/. He believed he had very good grounds for these cheering anticipations, when he considered the ample means for fulfilling them which were placed at the disposal of Government. He did not expect them, however, to be fulfilled all at once. But when, be repeated, they considered the propositions he bad made, he thought they must come to the conclu sion that their introduction into India would impress the whole of society there with an almost magic effect, and propel its advances with something like the celerity of a high steam pressure. The statements he had submitted to the House were the grounds, however, on which they ought to proceed in considering any legislative enactment on the subject. For his part he thought they could not, consistently with those statements, contemplate the main tenance of the China trade on its present exclusive prin ciples. That, it must be admitted, must cease. He would proceed to state the particular relations, with regard to India, under which he proposed to introduce the new measure. He would, first of all, set out with asserting tbat its introduction was for the good of India. In this assertion, however, there was nothing new, for all who had studied the interests anti welfare of India had declared sentiments in accordance with the leading features of the plan. He could, in fact, corroborate its utility by reference to declared opinions of the judges and of the ablest autho rities who had written on the subject of India. It was evident to every reflecting mind that the attention of Parliament could no longer be withheld from the subj-ct of effecting an alteration in many parts (for he did not think all attainable at once) of the present system. He would particularly instance two branches— those of the revenue, and the military establishments. But he would no longer detain the House, already detained too long, with dwelling en this part of the subject. There was one alteration, however, in the frame of the govern. ment of India which, considering its importance, he could not avoid mentioning. It was intended that in future, instead of three, there should be four presidencies. The government of India at present included the three presi dencies of Bengal, Madras, and Bombay. A very strong opinion had been expressed by all persons acquainted with India, that in consequence of the great change of circumstances which had occurred with respect to the presidency of Bengal by the addition of an extensive territory in the west, peopled by an unsettled and warlike race,--be said that, in the peculiar situation in which that presidency was placed, it had been thought advisable to form those western districts into a new territory. Among the many opinions in favour of this proposition he found that of Lend William Bentitick, the present Governor- General, who ded :red that from the condition of those districts and their extent it was impossible for the Bengal presidency to do justice to them as a government. It was true the general government legally possessed a con trol of the subordinate states, but this control could not be efficiently employed in districts so distant as the newly added western states of the Bengal presidency. The evidence, indeed, of Sir Thomas Munroe was sufficient to show how carelessly the laws were administered in many parts of the Indian empire, and Low little their adminis tration was under the control of the general government. It was proposed that these subordinate governments should be altered in two respects, namely, iti a reduction of the council, and in a total deprivation of our forms of law. He was quite aware that many difficulties were visible in the internal structure of the Indian governments in effecting this change ; but these might in a great measure be over come by an assimilation of the modes of administering the laws in the different local judicatures. In favour of such an alteration he might refer to an extract from a paper by the judges of the supreme court, entitled " Observations on a Suggestion by the Governor-General in Council." It was as Ml:ows :—" In this state of circumstances no one can pronounce an opinion or form a judgment, however sound, upon any disputed right of persons, respecting which doubt and confusion may not be raised by those who may choose to call it in question ; for very few of the public or persons in office at home, not even the law officers, can be expected to have so comprehensive and clear a view of the present Indian system as to know rea dily and familiarly the bearings of each part of it on the rest. * * * There are English Acts of Parliament specially provided for India, and others of which it is doubtful whether they apply to India wholly, or in part, or not at all. There is the English common law and con stitution, of which the application in many respects is still more obscure and perplexed. Mahomedan law and usage ; Hindoo la.v, usage, and scripture ; charters and letters patent of the Crown ; regulations of the Govern naents, some made declaredly under Acts of Par liament particularly author izing them, and others, which are founded, as some say, on the ge neral powers of government intrusted to the Company by Parliament, and, as others assert, on their rights as 'MC- cessors of the old native governments; some require registiy in a suprem e court; oil era do. have effect generally throughout India; others culiar to one presidency or one town. There missions of the governments, and circular the Nizamut Adawlut, and from the Dewanny treaties of the Crown ; treaties of the India - besides inferences drawn at pleasure from the of the droit public and the law of nations of . state of circumstances which will justify almoi struction of it or qualification of its force." It dent from the extract which he had read, that of the present system of administering the laver from the peculiar condition of the Indian empi the immediate attention of Parliament. In cases were brought, owing to the vast extent of dencies, SOO or even 1,000 miles to be tried, expense and inconvenience thus incurred were ' aiderabie. This view of the question was like' borated by the opinion of Sir C. Metcalfe, no thority on the subject of the system of the ju( India. Sir C. Metcalfe said, in February 19, " The only objection that strikes me to the British Christian population in India is the discordance of the laws by which our English native subjects are respectively governed. This will, no doubt, in time be removed,—and the better,—by framing laws equally binding on both in all concerns common to both, and leaving to own suitable laws in whatever peculiarly concerns selves alone. The present system of judicature in by which the King's Court is rendered entirely from the local administration and institutions, practically subversive of their power and inf fraught with mischief; and that part of the system makes our native subjects, under some circur liable to the jurisdiction of the King's C o urt, some to that of the Company's Court, and under that of botb, without regard to residence, or any defined limitations by which our native subjects can to what laws or courts they are or are not amt replete with gross injustice and oppression, a nd is loudly demanding a remedy, which can only he found strict local limitation of the powers of his Majesty' with regard to the.persons and property of native sl or in an amalgamation of the Kin g 's c. nets with t he judicial institutions, under a voile , i I .W 9 fitted ft purposes, and calculated to bestow real and equal on all classes of subjects under British dominion ii. He would further quote the opinion of the late Justice of India, Sir E. Ryan, who also, in apt such an alteration in the administration of the • India as was recommended by Government, said, minute dated October 2, 1829—" The great exter the British territories since the Charter of 1774 h to the Court a range of jurisdiction which, at pl. mote from Ca'cutta, can only be considered a ant justice, if it he not the means of fraud and oi., There can be no doubt, therefore, that difficulties a' conveniences are constantly arising from the undel uncertain state of the. Court's jurisdiction, which are perplexing and harassing to the suitors, the judge , / all who are concerned in the administration of in' To this he would add the testimony of Sir C. Ore! present Chief Justice, and his evidence was of importance on the point. Sir C. Grey said in a dated October 2, 1829—" It may be doubted • , t here I the present state of things, which I believe to be exampled in the history of the world, can last ' 74 dye longer. Throughout the greater part of India -,0 ion are to be found some individuals at least of four Jis P i ,4 N ti ka of classes, each of which is supposed to live under a dis t ,,,,t or d oh', system of law, and to have different rights and diffe' o o N . law duties, but none of them accurately defined. The re ,. No, °le l persons horn in the British islands Hindoos, Mahonies'o :o!it a Asiatic Christians ; and, besides all these, there Otto .4 lect many parts foreigners and subjects of Great Britain, " too quotati have been born neither in the British islands nor in I° t v .. a n 01 as to whom, I believe, there is no one who, consistc h o l 4 ln It with usage, can say, with any just confidence, what ...• I ar e t ( it is which applies to them. Hitherto it has been ;4 t ! d unde sible to make a shift ; but as the native Christians, Pi o td for tish and colonial persons, and foreigners shall increa t :° ot e sPtiti, numbers and pervade India, a result which must grad c 1 . carry take place, matters may be brought to such a Po 00 would scarcely be tolerable." The assimilation of 0 , e 4 t pr laws would, he believed, lead to a result of great int. and -4133tnt ance, he meant the increase of Europeans in India,.„ k it ! Priv what immense advantages would such a result prods, t "ntnet upon the native society ! The opinion of Lord would : L t lt the W. De w , il e s We b tinck upon this head, which he would quote, ased facilig 'Pr bin sufficient to show what a vast effect the incre- 8 0 t on °,.-- of intercourse between the natives and Europeans was nu ,_ waliaeer o r tinder be dated May 30, 1829--" Recent events, and the 0 jar r, , culated to produce. Lord W. Bentinck said, or r, 11411 relicts now passing under our eyes, still more clearly) r to th tify the persuasion, that whatever change would be beta ' • e e ,is mind th ficial for our native subjects we may hope to see adopwl d between 80 part at least at no distant period, if adequate mrs o ' •,, motives be presented. I need scarcely mention tbe i ii nt at pri creasing demand which almost all who possess the me ans could evince for various articles of convenience and luol It,ttiling in a t c i c P 1 0 purely European. It is in many cases very renniL„le de 4 nuld I able. Even in the celebration of their most sacred ; wi From tivals, a great change is said to be perceptible in CalcO Bi n?e em Much of what used, in old times, to be distributed ail e d I, i ee t ,essar beggars and Brahmins, is now, in many instances, dee ° B ,,, ' t l b e ° th tilit.ure folk to the ostentatious entertainment of Europeans; and ' ti s % h nerally the amount expended in useless alms is state: l 4o i port ti have been greatly curtailed. The complete and e°_ sios co-operation of the native gentry in promoting and in furthering other objects of public utility; the al 4 . €1 tha edues to , .. 'Duet nishing progress which a large body of Hintioo youth P rs , I t ` o was made in the acquisition of the English language, l ite ... 0 . tial ba r tore, and science; the degree in which they have eon to 'a' quered prejudices that might otherwise have been dee ° o f, loaf it the most inveterate (the students in the medical cic ea t ho . it i , 4 ) ;_siu the Hiudoo College under Dr. Tytler, as well as it 1, 4 41 t, L l ' r medical native school under Dr. Breton, in which t y B i, t pt , l uow are pupils of the highest castes, are said to dissect a .); g t, 'our mals, and freely to handle the bones of a human skeleS° 9 s c o 44 by a the freedom and the talent with which, in many °C o. essays we lately had exhibited to us, old customs ar e od foals w cussed ; the anxiety evinced at Delhi, and at Agre' l ob !Phi R' Nti e ful elsewhere, for the means of instruction in the Es! b y %j ot : 1 411e language ; the readiness everywhere shown to pro sj, sod s° such means of instruction as we have afforded; the 0 ,t kii. t er lity with which the natives have adapted themselee e be f I N I new rules and institutions ; the extent to which t o f have entered into new speculations after the exampl e t o • ; tilt our countrymen; the spirit with which many are sal ), '' th e st' be now prosecuting that branch of manufacture (in di sb which has alone as yet been fully opened to S il o s s : 48 1 enterprise ; the mutual confidence which EuroP e- 0 lit i. i 4 tra and natives evince in their transactions as mere° its ,le the and bankers ; these, and other circumstances, leaveo to k en , my mind no doubt that our native subjects t o t- p li at th e profit largely by a more general intercourse with '" $ 11 , peel ligent and respectable Europeans, and would priber sea be recognise the advantage of it." He would state ad o Be . kir circumstance connected with the introduction of P i t y F Y : peons into the native society. Some years ago it ria li c , - pt ste e ° 6 - tv , ' possible for any European to hold leases in India, to • l; e ' a tinder certain limitations. This restriction it was Pe t n e rS • i t's% totally to get rid of. The change of opinion in r''''otl (13tcs to the free admission of Europeans had been eemarkablel or / I though only a few years ago almost all the civil serr i : o , p o li cy w l ttteto , of the Company were violently opposed to their admis e ho . A pril they now almost unanimously advocated it. Mr. E l P o id, Ibl il ; at stone, one of the qualified opponents of the measure , d o I Ikat at that if the Government of India were strong, S c* ,. l33 so' d'141 0 1, , facility could not be given to the introduction of _.b e r ' it "4o llra ropeans. Would the House permit him to read a rro ' iii . , sN. document on this subject ? It was a communication 1 80 . ' t l i k ive ) vi the Governor-General, dated January 1, 1830, in CO at A):l4idee, oil, in the following words:_" Satisfied as we are ot o f ttabl e the best interests of England and India will be p • r c r ot ry s° met and the free admission to the latter of European " 1 " t hst ' M aud —II. and enterprise, our persuasion is scarcely less strong', or (I,lllploPe with every possible encouragement the settlement°! .oo . • 4 tdi?„ ,, countrymen in this country will be far short of the to t he ~Q di rg e her which is to be desired, whether regard be ha d , o der ! bi ble extension of commerce and agriculture, to the go t o , n_ iBo , , I,iu m of the country, to the prompt, cheap, and equal °P ie its yiei t i i __ tration of good law, to the improvement of the pent, o f i y te ul knowledge and morals, or to the strength and security t tii io to our power." Sir James Metcalfe, writing on t , h , , h oe t ! leen( subject on the 19th of February, 1829, said:-- " io dea ,It Was from lamented that our countrymen in India are e i !te b i to o f it s i s et lib from the possession of land and other ordinary 0 1 t hese / ,lei t an( peaceable subjects. I believe that the existence i_. ir e, Vs e.. . pro_ ik I tica and, of course, that their removal would tend to _or k ow/ . , il l m tee it. I am also of opinion that their abolition is _ or 0 , at, i.. restrictions impedes the prosperity of our Indian ewe te i 1 1it4•7 4 that progressive increase of revenue, without which ?.., e r . 4 ,4 44, ,! pense of our establishment. lam further convin ce ,jell t t ill we l l tr . 1 1 , it our possession of India must . always he precarious,. PP , r aid • an influential portion of the _ O Ol , , we take root by haying inte' I, . :th ' 4 ll lotion attached to our Government by common _ ea ik t , . t come cannot keep pace with the continually increasi.ehot ,t,the ... .e , and sympathies. Every measure, therefore, which tr 2: o 0 ok , 1 : 511 i ld by which i t '- of India, and to remove the obstructions . t of I ;tt re settlement of our ceun 0 : 6 je ' 4 ( . 1 4410 conduce to the stability aO , A vy v s( of Mr. Bayley, who peeled, welfare of the people subject to o ur t b o t ' I 1: 4 , N rule, and to the authority} i Of •th minion." He would quote another great . se 0 1., 1,0 who said, in a minute, is s a Lb dated the 51 re I ts ice culated ra to us fzi l lita co te nc i e h i e ve, tBi. e i December, shall see fit to declare that all persons, Europesa . v_ ° ln dia Of ' Plt tives, " s iding in the interior of our provinces in In 0010 Whenever the British Ltg r ps' a nd to "" " tp t 44 1 Cl' shall be subjected to the same regulations, 0 )121 1 , ( 1 1 , 7 e 1 rrdes:: 1 tr.: tR ia i''l7 t arhn h eg e nr:Yerd ; 41 ::: 14f t di i :I n u: of Eu , 'II with Limost , 4 t . o Ia It•. nz le; ai that o, a l to e lase , h the to ' 4 e su some ' e C ' I 8 2; tof the of lan tried, C at hurt, i e nj k r uo e e w d : l t i r t e a s d r l: it it ; 19, I B _, ie spree". . 'mg t h e e th. tatisi 4 . ,tost This obi ' Is he sou- - •. { nr ll ) a lrige b et o or t o h aso ti thou t 0 tab are in tirely ti us , and t he el influeo66, to be r i s L a s ti n t e n:e '1 711 4 1 a s :v v i o h n e ( Court, nativ e order at' s i „_ t ,lle nit !ets caa effect W ri amens- e , , P r -pos e Ind is e°;11 ( , ) ! the be found o f )je , ,,ty's ,; (4 , la w Ltive tted for 1 h>.ll!equal ; °1: i! ie late t ' '4 l e • Vs l. 4 eni appfo • sa me the lao ,1 q Prop Said, i° l k 'se o f ti7 e itom4e x psp t ohp e icara n akc s . j ilt ° 7. 1 1 iit s e7:4:wf er loe er h rec glefined. I t t ! .. the at eh are 1 : ( 1 7 a tlY judges,. :us ref e • t tlon of J ll ' ee , 1 t( . GreY , r ation; cif peal 4 ities 2 a 0 3 iert` 'one y d vibe"- Lt au to be " o ge o d taus last 313 -.' sels e test; tl dim,. 11 - . the Y