The Sun. — London, England, 1833-07-10 00:00:00

Judge s for the West Riding of Yorkshire at double the real number. He hoped that no Noble Lord, not even his Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Wynford), would think he used a sharp or taxing expression —(Laughter) — w h en he said that nothing he had stated in the Committee at all warranted the calculaton that the expense of the mea sure would be 150,0001. a year. He had never men tioned that the salaries of the Local Judges ought to he 2,0001., though be had admitted that 1,500/ would, perhaps, be too little. In the whole, the cost would not be more than 60,000/. or 70,000/. per an num, instead of 150,0001., the sum given by his Noble and Learned Friend. That the expense would be thrown on th e country he did not believe, though it stood so at present in the Bill; for he had little doubt that in the Commons provision would be made that the Judges, Re gisters, Bte., should be paid by fees. As to patronage, long before he was in office—as early, in fact, as the year 1826--he had felt and expressed the strongest repugnance to the increase of the patronage either of the Minister or of the Crown. There was a manifest impossibility of placing this patronage elsewhere. And these objections to this to the m easure applied as muc h to every other measure as . It was impossible to appoint one of the Judges in Wes tminster -hall, or the Chief Justice, without exer cising patronage ; and if the objection of patronage was to Prevail against this measure, it would equally prevail against all other measures for securing to the people the blessings of a due administration of justice. It was said he had already engrossed valuable patronage ; and the patronage of the Commissioners of Bankruptcy had been was°mdp a e r ke d ' and unfavourably for him, with that of the -tincellor under the new Bankruptcy Bill. He 'urPrised at the attempt to compare them. Why, re Were seventy Commissioners . holding offices c0mp ,,,,, tible Wi t h but professional practice, and not only compatible, er no_ even leading to professional advancement. These 1 0 ° ' 464 % .nd tv a Year Which besid e s p ro d uce d a t an average 5001 . in ti ea ch , were ther e fo re a mos t d es i ra bl e acqu i s i t i on that 7o the en -to Men Who h a d b een some ti me i n t h e pro f ess i on. I - s n ) , too, th e means of choice was different. In the and d I) -eel ill the new Bankruptcy Court, where the men iteres aPPointed had publicly to try the rights of litigating tP.artieas it was necessary that a considerable pot. ' ;I °l2 of learning and experience should be united in ''" individuals possessing them. A certain license must ° &,arle be admitted, but none could be appointed except ii ." ' 4 considerable degree of admitted judicial fitness. f But the Patrona ge of the other appointments was very dif !hrint• It was the patronage of men who hsd not respon aviv le duties to perform—there was no jealousy of men the I; the appointments —no interference to prevent we-togratification of private inclination ; the appointments Chant as unchecked as those of officers of excise, and no %Her had ever yet been called to account for the in coma. Banc *, vae) , of the m en a pp o i n t e d t o b e C omm i ss i oners o f pair,,, ru r nt. - -(Hear, hear.) This pure, unadulterated b —. age, was now s h lopped ~ ( 1 a t on Ne t her that w hi c h was substituted rom was bet er e or s not, I thou trate he had not grasped the patronage. He had -', h ad gut that eight Commissioners would be sufficient ; he . 4 r; o in'aid a°' but all the rest of those who expressed their ens. I l e ;) i ons on the subject, said that 10, or 12, or 15 were P i l : e t d ath.ltuited. He had taken the smallest number; and now there, ~d,°thneeof the Judges of the new Bankruptcy Court had soul, vacancy had not been filled up, nor was there the ono co Cou r t i ntention to fill it up, unless the business of the ghte .h r nepte should so increase as to render such a step absolutely atn -uarY. Then it had been said that the number of 01°4 be assignees would be considerable—that they would diP aPPointed all over the country. There had been hit u ' n e a • S sq._ Ppointed except in a few important places, s to' 067 their presence was absolutely required. Eighteen as II e c e .al assignees were required to be appointed at pri g ', c ° 4 4 11 ," Had he appointed them? No. Were there . no :or r,s , fro mi date s ? Yes, 1,200, with letters of recommendation 1 . Tjut,n,an manner of friends, Parliamentary and otherwise. 7° appoint" "oirt the first he had resolved that he would not l e l tte any one of those official assignees, but he would II of f t heir appointment to gentlemen forming a committee ie Ban eleven, composed of merchants and Directors of the li think of England. He had taken the first eighteen of ( 0 list, an d h a d appointed them ; so that, in fact, he %1 nothing more to do with the patronage of their t 4 ,P,Pointment than had his Noble and Learned Friend.— t;ktlear.) Then it was said that his patronage was already with great respect to the appointment of Juvices of the Peace. The Magistrates themselves had more. He scarcely ever recommended a man W•the Lord Lieutenant. If he saw that a man was omitted from the list—a man wi lt)) for his talents, his information, and his virtues, ought l 0 as have b een put there—he then asked the Lord Lieute toot nt W h y . en that man was no t p u t u p on th e li s t? an d if • 't t cause was not shown, he put in the name, and tt t ea , It at it i. la bounden duty to do so.—(Hear, hear, Lear.) course b lB bounden to the Lords Lieutenant to say, that this Learned w as very seldom required. How the Noble and 0 , fled very seldom had held the Great Seal could have .ag e d i , Wa a to II :" Possessor with the patronage of the Magistracy li o h..._ I ni a matter of surprise ; and the more so, when itiai c' e s ' e i te rv td it introduced—he was going to say—with is (f lea ba--but, i n fact, with extra-judicial gravity.— Le ar r ' h ear, hear ; and a l aug h.) Th e N o bl e an d e dote torn fl ed Lord said he was no t a p ar ti san , yet h e *a rmth n there, and, with a ll th e zea l, a ll t h e ch ar . ,' and all the activity of an effective partisan, dis this,a', on this occasion, his aentorial duties. In doing ato ne ad read a passage from an anonymous author, in of tin an h d with a manner that insinuated that some one telly l e who beard it had read it before, if he had not ac toee, tv a rditt” it- With that passage from a sharp, a Lo rd cL O witty article, in an able publication, lie (the r em - b eeneellor) had no previous acquaintance, till it was iti I nui Yk_t_ile Noble and Learned Lord ; but even now that toat i „."ve t o read, he was prepared to say that, though the did c i that p assage might be applicable to Ireland, be caniell°thtethin Passage might be applicable to ireland, be lb It was so with regard to England. He Noble 5i to h to the question of the certainty of the law. The To d to , Learned Lord said that this would be put an T o prase ? the operatioo of the Bill. He was mistaken. taw r ight ve the certainty and the uniformity of the Bill l wr s o f of aPpeal was given ; and in that respect the ,‘ sa m e so aa this Bill was concerned, would stand on the of under as it did under the present regulation of the Lora to; westininster Hall The Noble and Learned i • Who „, 0 auPPorted the amendment, and the Noble Lord ref orni7 4 'd it, both professed to , be friends to legal th o „ S o ( p a lit b I " the Noble and Learned Earl who, / 3 ill s had• 1.. as eitb s a id nothing, was as great an enemy of this ,_eareed Lord e of the Noble Lords. The Noble and use r , , who - t ote s o bad supported the amendment had Eve Nears and a half in possession of the Great to Year% to o _ ub le and Learned Earl had been twenty. ~,. reforio 7ellsion--and they had not made an attempt trib une _ th e , .3 - law. They (who neither erected new °..f reformil,,.°l. reformed the old), now that a measure ,' Its and ivi7as brought in, only stated that they opposed it anewin.,,......zaj ered, (1 °? th ey "ell they were asked what they would " Oh, you must find that out your ; 'ilt a ugh.) They would oppose all that men „,..oixopound.....they would propound none themselves. 44 Bic hear.) To say that the grievances for which t hey ~ Wits a remedy were not crying grievances —that hesr,"cce not matter of desperation--was what be had ref er - " with surprise. To show that they were, he should the t 0 two bills of costs incurred in the court in which i t ,. Ooble and Learned Lord presided, and had been j o :, l , r red since those late regulations for cheapening i"ee. In one of these cases judgment had gone by '.4l its and the costs amounted to 13/. What was the ot u ,nt of th e d e b t ? T en pounds.—(Hear, hear.) In 8 1 u ers the plaintiff recovered his demand, with o ther • 10 d• Of this sum, 71. were disallowed—in Avie,,i n t "rda s the plaintiff had paid more than he got in drylas ta o ll ' h t. Cause. B ut w h at did their Lordships think th at, afteur_ject of contest? A sum of 71. 19s. Gd. So et against (41 ! Year's liti gat i on, an d the chance of a ver -1 .pocket hi Year's th e pl a i nt iff succeeded, and got 19s. 6d. tog t i e _ !here was another case from the Court of he pk int u iff • . The costs were 115/. for each . party. iltelveliovz:td July paid 49i, 4'9l'll;e trlheaftendhleint7ovfecrowurasse:Peapiadidal;i hishe dis h *. arriou nt i , 1 Pute wa s 16i rig to 151 . The amount of the sum in 1 °tent st, • aud nu Well might Lord Hale I r a e eb ou more. W T.... We1l ni i 1 ge of the ancient jurisdictions of the coun- N - Lie l aw, no _ gilt that illustrious Judge, and true friend of ed' ._," did not wait till other men proposed re ant .._ion thee oppose them—(Hear, hear)—and meet !ilil wil h car • out to Nog d eclamatory sneering, but who was o PP I ? th e lungei t Z i the rotten part of the system, to ;that Ual tile an t i a , h witi, t° cut them away, that the rest might healthier vigour —well might be exclaim Zee for the anci ent constitution was changed, and sigh for to o teethe to t When justice was brought home on (1, might k r. t r he door of the poor man ; and well, one no lon ger duetice Blackstone complain that those k i ll., eXisted Posses sed their old jurisdiction, which 4 'ugh he neficially for the country at large !lot'4 si , . ought toadd , however, that Lord Hale he 1 01. „,,, mo . r e in ti th e seventeenth century Gun 40s. had of the statut e of Gloucester); and klaielnight hot me add the sanction of their valuable it t3 t4t ,areta ill f w . a " h u a r t of the advantage of these local judi ylsstnarit,tru te ridoet : th',4l/, nor d that. which said we will 7,jtil.stice ? What but Ma,;na bis, eoltly price? was .6,cling, to t ki "4? Yet denying, giv e it only at it t k , 10 those who could afford l to give it It it en. , nog' . pay that • . god 1 / 4 tk . eenying justice wii ' price .ur a _ ll , en, instead of waitin a toy th, the poor man Was made to run toe the I ;ted 1 n the l t tbel thee wise p - tedo ) reree l ned verig‘ 'rieod irgul to vil froth ,ho v, inspo 4 11e' ' trate es W g. :heir !rtes !icy cards Jll , ow p olo Den t : a io Bl ig i' l per,: oble ha d 'log, 0' lire ~,,,, Vll $o gauntlet of Westminster Hall for two years, and, after winning his suit, to have to pay more than he gained by it ? He held it that it was the bounden duty of that House to afford a remedy to these evils ; that the time was come beyond which they could not delay it. He was sure they felt all the anxiety and all the in clination to afford that remedy—he was perfectly con vinced that they had all no party or personal dislike, no foolish antiquated prejudices that could make them refuse a slight change in what was now the law of the country. —(Hear, hear, hear.) He was accused of recommending a Jury of six. He was not the first innovator in that respect. A Bill in which that proposition was made had been proposed years ago by Lord Redesdale, and now stood on the records of that House. He asserted that this was the poor man's Bill, which would enable him to obtain justice at a cheap rate—to obtain it in the next strett, instead of having to travel 100 miles for it; which would enable him, without anxiety—without taking him from his daily labour, which was his daily bread—without carrying away his substance from his family, which had now but barely enough to maintain itself—without that ruinous destruction of time—without any diversio❑ from his labour, would enable him to met his Judge, to go into Court, and to obtain redress if he had suffered injustice. Yet the Noble and Learned Lord told him that this was not the poor man's Bill, because there would be a speedy execution of judgment. Why, any speedy execution of judgment for him was in his favour; and if he enjoyed that benefit, and got for a few shillings more than he could now get for a greater number of pounds, he could not compla'n that the same measure was afterwards rendered to him, and that he was compelled to pay the same attention to his creditor which he had formerly demanded from his debtor.—(Hear, hear.) It was said that this was nut the poor man's Bill, because he could not find security for costs if he should wish to remove the action to the superior Courts. The clause as to removing actions was suggested by the late Chief Justice of the Court of Common Pleas, and inserted at his desire. But the poor man was not likely to wish to remove the suit to a more expensive Court ; and if his wealthy opponent attempted it, he must do so at the risk of having ultimately to pay all the costs which such a proceeding bad occasioned. There had been whispers as to what would be the fate of this Bill. He would not believe them; be would not believe, till they convinced him by their votes, that they would refuse to pass this Bill. He would conceal nothing from them—he would affect no thing—he would be frank with them. He was not there to flatter them—he neither gave it nor would take it ; he would neither be its victim nor its dispenser; he would state the plain truth, which, be it less palatable, was much fairer, and he told them plainly that, it this Bill was thrown out, it would in no way whatever relax any efforts of his in the cause of Law Reform ; and whoever expected that it would damp or discourage him in the prosecution of measures for the good of the King's sul•jects, reckoned without his host.—(Hear, hear.) But if be said that he should feel no mortification in such a result—that he should not be somewhat discouraged —somewhat almost in desp tir—he should be misleading them, for he confessed that, when he took office, his great and primary motive was, to enjoy the opportunity of using his official influence on behalf of Law Reform, and to propose these important, though cautious, prudent, and safe measures of Reform ; and, therefore, though he proposed mea sures whiah he might think too moderate, and inadequate to the important object he had in view, and almost useless as compared with that which they would have shown, by their votes, to be impracticable, he should still propose them, because, with their Lordships, they were practicable ; and he should still be ready, even in one-half inch of the way, if he could get no further, to accompany them. But be was not the only person whom they must expect to be disappointed. It might a little damp his hopes, but the hopes of the country—the instant that was mentioned, he thought it would excite a smile among Noble Lords—(No, no)—as it the most judicious course for them to pursue was, to show an utter disregard of all such considerations—(Loud cries of " No, nu, no")—as if they did not care whether those hopes were damped or not.—(Renewed cries of " No, no, no.") Well, then, it was untrue that they did not care whether those hopes were damped.—(Hear, hear.) He was glad to hear it; he was sure that they would deeply lament a step that would frustrate the expectations of their fellow•subjects.—(Hear, hear.) He rejoiced in the manner in which his observation had been received ; and feeling confident that that w•as their frame of mind, he was bound from thence to infer, and on that intimation he should believe, that they Lad at last deter mined not to throw out the Bill, which was to secure cheap justice, administered at home and directly to the poor man, and which they could not reject without de claring that the hopes of the poor for cheap, speedy, offer• tive, and easily attainable justice, were not to be realized. —(Cheers.) The House then divided, when the numbers appeared— Present. Proxies. For the original question Bl 41 Against it Majority for rejecting the word "now" 12 When these numbers were announced several Peers left the House, but it appeared that a second division was necessary in order finally to decide the question. The gallery was again cleared, and, upon the amendment of Lord Wharncliffe that the words " this day six months" be inserted, the House again divided, when the numbers, independent of proxies (which were not counted this time), appeared— For the amendment 73 Against it Final majority against the Bill -5 In the minority were included, it was said, the only five Bkhops who happened to be in the House, the Rev. Prelate of Exeter having quitted immediately the first di vi ion was over. On the other hand the majority would have been increased by three, bad it not been that Peers to that number only reached the House after the question had been put, and they were consequen'ly obliged to remit their votes,'not having been present when the motion upon which the House divided was read. The Home adjourned at two o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JULY 9. The House resumed shortly after five o'clock. Mr. CLIVE moved for returns of the number of cadets and writers appointed in the East India Service from 1813 to 1833, distinguishing those who were eons of officers in the military or civil service. The Usher of the Black Rod then summoned the House to the House of Lords, to hear his Majesty's assent given by Commission to certain Bills. On his return the SPEAKER infirmed the House that his Majesty', assent had been given to certain Bills. Mr. O'CONNELL moved for copies of memorials re lating to the internal navigation of Ireland. A message from the Lords requiring a conference in the painted chamber on the subject of the East India Charter, was complied with, and a deputation forthwith appointed. Lord ALTHORP brought up the result of the con ference, from which it appeared that their Lordships bad agreed to the resolutions of the Commons on the East India question. Mr. C. FERGUSON presented petitions from Glasgow and Birmingham, praying th• House to take such steps as might tend to the restoration to Poland of her liberty and independence. Lord EBRTNGTON presented a petition from certain natives of Poland, to the same effect. POLAND. Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON rose to bring forward his motion respecting Poland. We regret to say, that the Hon. Gentleman spoke in so low and husky a tone of voice, as to be for the greater part inaudible. The motion he was about to submit to the House was for an address to his Majesty, that be would be graciously pleased not to recognise, or in any way give the sanction of his Govern ment to the present political state and condition of Poland, the same having been brought about in violation of the treatyof Vienna, t o w hi c h G reat B r i ta i n was a party. It wasimpossible t o d eny t h at R uss i a b a d v i olated the treaties. The treaty of Vienna provided for the nation ality hf Poland, and for the preservation of her Consti tutioni treaty which Russia had openly and undis guisedly broken. The world expected of England, and of England's House of Commons, that they should raise their voices against the usurpation thus daringly perpetuated in the face of Europe. The question now before the House was not that they should engage in war, but merely that a declaration to the effect which he bad stated, should be put forth by tt em, and that they should state, what they could not deny, that Russia had been guilty of a shame ful infraction of treaties. He felt great difficulty in ad dressing the House for the third time on this subject, as he (eared it would be necessary for him to repeat much that he had already said. The Hon. Member then proceeded to detail at some length the grounds of his motion, as de scribed by him on former occasions. His first proposition saris, that the treatyof Vienna had been violated. That treaty, is it regarded Poland, was considered of tile greatest con sequence both by M. de Talleyrand and the late Lord Castle reagh, whose conduct on that occasion did him great ho nour. The settlement of Belgium was a question of com paratively trifling importance, compared with the ques tion of th e sett l ement o f P o l an d . T he i n d e pendence of Poland was necessary to the safety and independence of a great p or t o f E urope . Thi s pr i nc i ple was fu l ly recognised by the Congress at Vienno, where the nationality of Po pd; together with a representative governmcnr, and na tional institutions, were expressly stipulated for. Lord Castlereagh, in a letter which he wrote home, declared the strong necessity of raising up some barrier against the power of Russia. He declared the merging of Poland in Russia to be replete with danger by no means imaginary, and predicted the consequences to Europe, if the military power of the two countries should be united in one atnlii tions an I warlike Prince. Poland bad proved ita'.if, on former occasions, the bulwark of Christendom. It was a highly civilized and powerful nation ; and it would be most advantageous to Europe to maintain it as a distinct kingdom. This rem the great object of the treaty of Vienna—a treaty which had been guaranteed by eight European Powers—which Russia had glaringly vio lated—and which it was the duty, therefore, of the other Powers to enforce. The Constitution of Poland was expressly secured by this treaty. It was no gift proceeding from the Emperor's beneficence, but an ar ticle of contract. Even hail the Emperor Alexander be stowed on Poland this Constitution by way of boon, he was bound to maintain the conditions of the Consti tution which hail been given, in the place of that taken away. This, however, was not the case. In the first letter which that Emperor addressed to the Presitlznt of the Senate, he said to him that the destiny of his country was about to be fixed by the concurrence of all the great Powers at the Congress of Vienna.—(Hear, hear.) The kingdom of Poland was to be united to the empire of Russia, by the tie of its own Constitution, on which footing he was desirous it should be placed.—( Hear, hear.) Similar language was made use of in subsequent proclamations. A'so, in the address on the oceasion of opening the Diet in 1818, when the Emperor slid that Poland would be entitled to maintain an honourable rink amongst the nations. The most solemn oaths had also been taken by the Emperors Alexander and Nicholas, to observe the charter and the laws, and to maintain a national representation, and national institutions. Who ever had firs; violated the charter and the constitution, had, in point of fact, commenced the insurrection, and was guilty of all the blood which had flowed on that occasion. —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then proceeded, in a very low tone of voice, to complain of the manner in which Russia had violated her engagements, and the in sults and persecutions which she had heaped upon one of the bravest nations on the earth. The Emperor had placed over Poland a cruel and vindictive Governor, who bad trampled on her laws, in•ulted her citizens, and loaded with chains all who became objects of his aversion. He had placed over his Polish subjects that cruel brother whom he was unable to trust in his own dominions, and shut his ears to all remonstrances or complaints of his conduct—.complaints that but increased his tyranny. The iiberty of the pr as was destroyed--the liberty of the person trampled on—the Diet ceased to be regularly assembled—taxes were imposed without its concurrence— the independence of the judges put an end to—in short, none of the great provisions made by the Congress were observed according to the Constitution. No person was to be arrested but for crimes described by the law. Num bers were, however, arrested for crimes not specified by the law—were brought to trial without legal forms, and before a council of war, convicted and punished, and fre quently, if the sentence pronounced was not sufficiently harsh, the unfortunate prisoners were sent before the council of war, in order that a more cruel punishment might he inflicted. There were instances of persons who were kept in prison twelve months without trial, and ultimately acquitted, but whom Constantine refused to set at liberty, and sent off to the dungeons of Russia, whilst the judges were put under surveillance, and received a public reprimand.—(Hear,) The most respectable citizens of Warsaw were taken, and compelled to sweep the streets by his arbitrary decree, not only without trial, but with out even the shadow of an accusation made against them. How long was such tyranny as this to continue ? Would the world tolerate it ? 'Would Europe,' allow the rights of nations to be thus invaded ?—(Cheers.) In his opi nion, the Poles were justified in the struggle which took place—a struggle which redounded to their immortal honour. The annals of history did not exhibit more splendid and heroic feats of arms, or brighter instances of devoted courage and generous daring, than were exhibited by the army of Poland on that occasion. —(Cheers.) They fell before overwhelming strength, it was true; but they fell endeavouring to maintain their rights.—(Hear.) They fell, but their rights fell not with them ; and he asked of that assembly of freemen to declare that those rights yet remained unalterable and inalienable, and that the conduct of the Emperor of Russia was an infraction of the treaty of Vienna, by which the nationality of Poland was guaranteed.— (Hear.) They were imperatively called upon for this demon stration. Had it been made earlier; the independence of Po land might probably have been preserved, and its wretched fate averted. But the misfortune of the present day was, that the power of Russia was so great, that all the nations appeared to quail under it. A universal terror appeared to seize them at the slightest chance of a collision with Russia. If England and France had interfered, as they ought to have done, in the case of Poland, that unfortunate country would have been saved from the state of oppression to which it had been since reduced. It was the undoubted right of the different powers of Europe to constitute themselves judges in such a case as that of Poland. They had actually done so ; they had given a constitution to Poland, which Russia had taken upon herself to put down. When Ireland and Scotland were united with this country, they maintained their constitution to an iota. The demand of the Poles was not now for the fulfilment of the treaty of Vienna; they asked not for an independent constitution. All their demands amounted to no more than a mere national existence, He asked for nothing more from the House of Commons but a declaration that Poland ought to continue to exist as a nation, and to enjoy the rights and privileges of a free people. He would not trouble the House at any conside rable length, but he thought it his duty to declass that Europe had been wanting in its effbrts on behalf of persecuted Poland. The King of the French, in his address to the Chambers in 18.32, had declared that the independence of Poland ought to be preserved; and the cry which that declara. tion raised pervaded Europe. In the Chamber of Deputies a French statesman, of distinguished eminence (Casimir Perier) had stated that he had addressed the Court of Russia on the subject of Poland, and had announced to it the determination of France that Poland should continue to exist as a nation; and that he had received the most positive assurances, on the part of the Emperor Nicholas, that the nationality of that unfortunate country snould be preserved.—(Hear.) France was, therefore, bound in honour to support the Poles ; and it was his hope and trust that at no distant period France would redeem her pledge. In the meantime, it did not become this country to be silent. The representatives of the people of England ought to carry their opinions to the foot of the throne—that they might be echoed even at St. Petersburgh, and echoed loudly, as was fit ting for the opinions of a free, a loyal, a united people. In a political point of view, as well as on the score of liberality and of humanity, he maintained that the House of Commons were bound to express their opinions respecting the conduct of Rus. sia with regard to Poland; because it was of such a nature as was calculated to affect the peace of Europe in general; and, in the face of Europe, ought the opinion of an English House of Commons against the oppression of Poland to be recorded. The Right Hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth (Sir It. Peel) to whose opinion he (Mr. C. F.) had listened for years with the greatest respect, had expressed sonic doubts with regard to a statement made by him on a former occasion, about the con duct of Russia towards Persia. The case of Poland was unfor tunately the best proof of his accuracy. It was an exact pa rallel. So great were the injuries of Poland that they were incredible.—(Hear, hear.) He had before stated the misfor tunes of Poland, and he would solemnly assure the House that he had not on that occasion uttered a single expression which he did not believe to be religiously true. What would the House think of the scenes which were proved to have taken place in Russia ? The Hon. Member then proceeded to state the case of two children who had been seized one night in e certain part of Poland, and carried off to Russia; but the firing on the river in consequence of a rowing match rendered him inaudible for some time. For the purpose of getting possession of these children, the Administration published a notice that the Emperor had been pleased to issue an order that all those who were unable to support their children should have them registered in order that they might he maintained at the ex pense of the Crown. By this proceeding they obtained posses. sion of no less than 600 children, who might be said to have been kidnapped from their mothers, and who were conveyed in waggons to the Russian frontiers. So long a journey, with. out comforts, without necessaries—subjected as they were, to every privation, had had the consequences which were naturally to be expected from such barbarous con duct. Three-fourths of the wretched beings had died on the road. Many of them were found lying on the way with the miserable crust of bread in their hands which they had not strength to eat.—(Hear.) On the 24th of March an order was published, stating that all vagrant boys should be arrested and sent to Russia to be placed in the public schools ; but the order was by no means confined to orphans, as had been asserted. Children were taken from their mothers, who were left to lament their absence.—(At this time the voice of the Hon. Member became totally inaudible.) Poland was not destitute of institutions for the education of her children. What reason, then, could there be for sending them to Russia, unless it were wished to bring them up as Russian soldiers, and to alienate them totally from their country ?...--(The Hon. Member here read an extract from a letter of a Polish noble man, who stated that an order had arrived to take away his child, and transport it into Russia.) On another occasion he stated that they had taken away his child. Why, he asked, should a Pole, and above all a nobleman of that country,be thus deprived of what he held most dear ? The Hon. Member then asserted that the Russians were carrying on a war of extermina tion against Poland, similar to that which Turkey had carried on against Greece ; and he contended that the Powers of Eu rope would be entitled to interfere in the one case, as well as they had been in the other. The cruelties practised against children he had stated to be such as were unknown since the days of Herod, and he commented, in particular, upon the transportation of entire families to the districts of the Caucasus. —(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member then read the Ukase of the Czar, which declared that the persons to be transported were to be, first, those who had taken part, in any way, in the late insurrection, and who had not returned to their allegiance within the time limited by the proclamation ; secondly, those who were guilty, in the third degree, in the late insurrection ; thirdly, those persons who from their way of gaining their livelihood, were suspected by the local governments. In consequence of this Ukase, five thousand families were transported from the district of Podolia to Caucasus, for no crime but that of having put faith In the proclamation of the Autocrat. It bad been asserted that the Poles might ret,,rn to their own country. Under the circum stances in which that country was placed, how could that be expected ? Rather than return to their country, it was well known that hundreds of Poles were working among the for tresses of Prussia. He called upon the House to pronounce judgment upon this atrocious case; he called upon them to pronounce the opinion of the people of 'England uporl it; he called upon them, as the representatives of a free nation, to express their abhorrence of those who had deprived a nation of its freedom. Never was a feeling so strong over a whole country as that which prevailed in England in favour of the unfortunate Poles—(Hear, hear)--and nothing would satisfy this country, Europe, or tie world, but a solemn declaration of that feeling. The Noble Lord who had presided over the councils of the country, and who, through the whole course of his political life, had exerted himself in the defence of the oppressed, had, on the occasion of the second partition of Poland, described, in very striking terms, the state to which Poland had been reduced.—(The Honourabl , Geis eman here re..id an extract frorl the speech in question.) Was not that the present condition of Poland; was there any thing so nefarious in the second partition of Poland as the act of Nicholas to which he had already adverted ? It was evident that the sole object which occupied the thoughts of Russia was its own aggrandisement. While Russia was taking our money under the convention with that country, it was destroying Poland, it was encouraging the resistance of Holland to an arrangement with Belgium, and, sooner or later, it would operate in amanner still more nearly injurious to us. It had encouraged the despotic States of Germany ; it had lent its aid to the cause of despotism in Spain and Por tugal ; it had engaged in an attempt to subjugate Turkey. Would he go to war with Russia? No. But he would not show that this country had any fear of Russia, and he therefore called upon his Majesty's Ministers to acquiesce in the address which he was about to move. He called upon them by a regard to their popularity, but still more loudly by a regard to their justice. He was anxious that they should be armed with a vote of the House of Commons in any future proceeding which they might be required to take respecting Poland. Adverting again to the treaty of Vienna, the Hon. Gentleman contended that the present political state and condition of Poland had been brought about in violation of that treaty, to which Great Britain was a party. He earnestly utged the House, there fore, to accede to his motion, the loss of which would im. press upon the world the unjust notion that the people of England were not sincere in their wishes for Polish inde pendence.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Such being the case, he trusted that his motion would be either affirmed or denied, and that it would not be met by the previous question. He begged leave now to move " that an humtle address be pre sented lo his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased not to recognise, or in any way give the sanction of his Government to the present political state and condition of Poland, the same having been brought about in violation of the treaty of Vienna, to which Great Britain was party."--(Hear.) Mr. THOMAS ATTWOOD seconded the motion. No country had ever been so sanctified by the blood of patriots as Poland. They were taught to believe that the Poles had formerly been slaves. It was his duty to state to those who were not aware of the fact, that the Poles never had been slaves. They had no word in their language to express the meaning of the word " slave." It was true that the peasants of Poland were attached to the soil on which they had been born and bred up; but their attachment was a willing at. tachment, and not the attachment of slavery. Poland had always been the soil of liberty; not merely of national inde pendence, for which she had struggled so nobly, but of poli tical liberty. In the midst of her contests with Tartars, Turks, and Muscovites, she had adopted a motto, which, he trusted, would yet carry her through to happiness and to liberty. That motto was, " Poland is not lost as long as we have life," Had England but sent a fleet into the Baltic and the Bosphorus, the restoration of Poland would at once have been accomplished. Gentlemen holding certain situa tions did not hesitate to go out in defence of their own honour —and had they no regard for that of their country, in sulted as she was by that brutal and barbarous power, which, like a big bully, swaggered, threatened, aye, and com mitted greater acts of barbarity than any European power had ever dared to do P Look at her declaration of war against Turkey, which no man could deny was in direct violation of a treaty entered into with the Duke of Wellington, then Prime Minister of England. The Gallant Duke—the hero of so many fights—had pocketed that insult ; yet this same Duke went out to fight when he fancied his own honour was wounded. Would to God that Gallant Nobleman had been equally as sensitive to the honour of his country, for then the heartless atrocities of which he complained would never have been com mitted. True, the Duke of Wellington had prevented by his interference the capture of Constantinople in Yes, he admitted this—he believed he had done so ; but what was the use of that, if it was allowed to fall in 1833 ? If England had but said in her own proper tone—that tone which she ought ever to assume—" You shall abandon Turkey and you shall abandon Poland"—he was convinced that—backed by the de monstrations of France, as she assuredly would have been— Russia would have bowed to the command. Oh 1 but it was said, we had no money to go to war with. He denied it—we had plenty of money.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) At no period were the people of this country more willing to go to war—more willing to bear the burdens of war—than at the period when Nicholas was perpetrating his diabolical atrocities in Poland. Many persons said our interference would lead to a general war ; but he said our present policy was much more likely to lead to that result. However, if they could not pre_ Verve Poland—if they could not preserve their own honour without a general war, let it come he said, and the sooner the better. Why should England fear Russia? She was infinitely poorer than we were—had infinitely fewer resources than we tu.d when necessity demanded them.--(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Let Government hut do justice to the people of England, and there was no country with such resources—such power—and such riches.—(Hear, hear.) He had evidence that we could pay forty millions snore in taxes than we now paid.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") Yes, he repeated it—(Hear, hear)—one stoke of the pen of the Noble Lord opposite would enable the people of this country to pay easily 40 millions more than they now did.—(Ohj oh! Hear, hear.) During the war, England paid no less than eighty millions in taxes for three years together, and she could do the same now if a proper policy was adopted. But now they emasculated England.—(Laughter.) No Government, he could tell them, would give satisfaction that did not go to war—(Laughter)--or: command justice without going to war.—(Hear, hear.) The people wanted political justice, and he could tell that House that they would have it from one Government or another. Mr. Pitt, it was well known, had declared that, rather than Russia should have one village on the Black Sea, he would sacrifice everything that Englishmen held dear. That great Minister had said Coto imperio secure— (Laughter)—which he would venture, poor scholar as he was, to translate--" that he would stake the whole Empire on a war," sooner than Russia should effect such an object.—(Hear, hear.) He could hardly believe that Eng land was the country he once read of, for he could not tell where she had got such a hydrophobic dread of war. They might depend upon it they would find great difficulty in mak ing Nicholas do what was right by any other means than ex. ternal force—surrounded as he was by an ignorant and a vicious nobility. But the moment the Emperor found the people of this country declaring that his present unrighteous deeds should have an end—the moment he found the fiat of England had gone forth—they might depend upon it he would stay the ruthless hand of oppression and desist from further outrages on humanity. For these reasons he supported the motion, and he sincerely hoped that a resolution so moderate in its tone would meet with the support of Ministers and the House. There was, he could confidently say, no man more attached to the present Administration up to theperiod of the introduction of the Irish Church Bill than he was; and if they would now only return to the love of liberty and of humanity —(Laughfr.)—they would again find him one of their humble but sincere followers ; they would find no one more cordially assisting them than he would.—(Hear, hear.) They had just given twenty millions to emancipate 800,000 negroes ; but they could not spare a million for the sake of unfortunate, perse. cuted Poland. He would say, that every life that was sacri ficed in Poland was of ten times more value than one sacri. ficed in the West India Colonies.—.(Laughter; Oh, oh; and Hear, hear.) He said it. He said, that to save the life of one Pole, he would sacrifice the lives of ten negroes.—(Hear, hear.) in the eye of the law, he granted the negro was equal with toe Pole ; but in the eye of common sense and humanity—((;rest laughter)—he was not. Why, the one was a stupid and the other an intelligent creature— (Laughter, and Hear, hear)—with a manly and generous spirit. He would contend that these black creatures had no right to be put on a par with the noble race, not yet, he was happy to think, extinct in Poland. And yet the Noble Lord could not afford even two millions for them, though he could twenty for the negroes. But he could tell him how he might be able to afford even them twenty millions besides the twenty already guaranteed, and that was by dipping into the great paper mine —(0h)—which he would have to do yet. He only wished that his Majesty should be strengthened by the declaration of Parliament, and encouraged by that to declare to Russsa,.that he would never recognise the present political state of Poland, and that sooner or later she must be restored to the state in which she existed, as to liberty and indepen dence, in 1776. He called on Ministers not to suffer the barba rian power to fortify itself at Scutari, but, if necessary, to send an English fleet and an English army to drive them away. He hoped that the Ministers would not move the previous question on the resolution, and if they did, he prayed that they might be defeated. He again repeated, that the cause of Poland was the cause of liberty and humanity; and as Eng. land must fight against Russia in their behalf at some time or other, it would be better that she fought now, before Poland was finally and completely subdued, and incorporated with the Russian empire.—(Hear.) Sir HARRY VERNEY complimented the Hon. and Learned Member for Kirkcudbright, for the excellent manner in which he had introduced the question to the House, and regretted that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had taken such a different view, and should have represented this ques. tion as a question of making war upon Russia, and as if he were prepared for that alternative. Certainly, if England had any thing to fear from any Power, it was from Russia; and he regretted that the Hon. Member should have described her as a barbarian Power. He wished she was; a barbarian Power. There was, however, no Power which adopted such wise means to attain its ends as Russia. She was intent on promoting civilization, extending commerce, and establishing in evci) part of the empire the most useful institutions. She sent abroad the most enlightened of her citizens to collect correci information of the improvements of other countries. Did the Hon. Member for Birmingham know that steam-boats were navigating on the \Volga, and that you might travel in Russia with almost as much facility as in the United States of Ame rica ? The Hon. Member had libelled Mr. Canning, for never in that Statesman's time did any Power insult England without that insult being resented. He regretted that the House should have been diverted, by the observations of the Hon. Member, from the excellent speech of the Hon. and Learned Member who brought forward the motion ; for it was of great importance to give a temperate and firm support to the cause of Poland was the only power which could form a bar rier against Russia, and preserve that balance of power which it was the interest of England, and a;1 other European States to preserve. Napoleon had sr Al that Russia would succeed him in the empire of Europe, and the Abbe du Pradt had said that Russia and Eugland must contend fo:: supremacy; that there were only two powers in Europe; and if Britain was the power that was to contend, as she had always contended, for liberal institutions and freedom against barbarism, it was of conse quence that she should support the good cause bygood means. The Hen. Member concluded by reminding the House of the terms of the motion, and by again expressing his regret that the House had been diverted from them by the speech of the Hon. Member for Birmingham. Sir It INGLIS also eulogised the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Kirkcudbright, and expressed his regret that any person should have diverted the attention of the House from that speech. It was a speech of the best taste and high. est talent he had for a long time heard in Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) On a former occasion, when he had felt it necessary to condemn the language in which the Sovereign of Russia was spoken of in that House, he had carefully abstained from giving any opinion on the subject of Poland itself. He would now say, that he thought the cause of Poland was the cause of Europe and of Christian civilization.— (Cheers.) The Em peror had unwarrantably assumed a power over it which was equally condemned by the law of nations and repudiated by facts.—(Hear.) He had assumed that he possessed it by right of conquest ; and he might as well have applied that to Paris, or to any other place his armies had vi sited. The phrase applied to it in the Organic Statute, which was on the table of the House, was, that Poland, by the law of conquest, was possessed by Russia. But the fact was, as it had been stated by his Hon. Friend, that Russia held Poland by a compact with other Powers. The Emperor Ni cholas held it by the same right as the Emperor Alexander, and Alexander held it on the ground that a constitution was to be given to Poland. Since the last discussion, papers on the subject had been laid on the table, and particularly the despatches of Lord Heytesbury, enclosing what was called, by the courtesy of diplomacy, the new Constitution. If the new Constitution approached at all in principle to that given by the Emperor Alexander—though he should regard it as an unto ward event that the Constitution given on the 24th of May, 1825, should have been subverted—if the substantial ends of justice had been obtained, lie should say that the contracting powers to the treaty of Vienna would have no right to com plain ; but when he compared the two documents, he found that the new Constitution was nothing more than the mere decree of a despotic Sovereign.—(Hear, hear.) The House would feel that this new Constitution was drawn up in singu lar terms. By the treaty of Vienna, by which Poland was committed to the care of Alexander, he was bound to give it a Constitution,and there would be no ground of complaint if that had not been the case. But so careful were the powers who were parties to that treaty, that in the first phrase in which Poland was mentioned, it was stated that her nationality should be preserved. He must observe, that the very first word was an unfortunate word, for it said that Poland should be reunited to the empire of Russia. The use of the word might open the question of the former union ; but he contended that, in all history, Poland never was united to Russia, except when Russia was subdued by Poland ; but, with the exception of that unfortunate term, the first phrase was a recognition of Poland as a distinct State —meaning a distinct kingdom. The Emperor Alexander and the Emperor Nicholas were both crowned at Warsaw, and were both bound to be crowned at Warsaw by the Consti tution. By the Organic Statute, however, or the new Con stitution, Poland was declared an integral part of the Rus sian empire. How was that to be reconciled to the principle that Poland was to be an integral State, and that the So vereign was to be crowned at Warsaw? Why Poland now was not different from Siberia or any other dependent pro vince incorporated with Russia, and had lost all the dis tinctive characteristics of a separate kingdom. The con. stitution of 1815 was completely violated by the Organic Statute. By the constitution, a Regency was to be ap pointed, which gave something like nationality, and that Regency was taken away. By the constitution of 1815, four members of the Regency were to be elected by the Senate; and that Regency, so elected by the Senate, gave a separate existence to the State. Now the Polish nation was to be regulated by a Regency, appointed wholly by Russia. Again, in 1818, the Diet was to be assembled every two years, and it was declared illegal to suspend it, but that was totally disregarded, and the Diet had been swept away as if it had never existed. If there was anything which better preserved a national character, and which was a distinct mark of nationality, it was a separate language.—(Hear, hear.) A national language was a consolation under oppres sion, and an honour when independent. Oppression itself was relieved when men could communicate together in their native tongue. The pain of servitude itself even was abated when a language was preserved. But the Polish language was now banished from all public proceedings.—(Hear.) By the con stitution of 1815, none but the Poles were eligible to office in Poland. That gave nationality to the Poles; but now any per. sons, natives of Russia, and subjects of its many governments, were equally eligible with the Poles to any employment in Poland. That was not a subject of complaint derived from any abstract considerations; but a separate nationality had been distinctly promised to Poland by the Government in 1815. By that constitution, all o►lices in Poland were secured to the Poles of the organic statute ; they were thrown open to all the inhabitants of Russia. It was only upon the faith of the stipulations that Russia should give a constitution to Poland, that Alexander had received Poland, and that Nichoias had had it secured to him. The nationality of Poland actually formed the subject of the two first articles of the treaty of Vienna. By the constitution of 1815 the army was to be Polish. The army possessed a chivalrous spirit, nourished by an organization of seven hundred years, and was it nothing that by a clause of the organic statute the Polish army was anni. hilated ? He would not state that the Polish troops were the flower of Bonaparte's army, but if they were not the flower, certainly they were not exceeded in bravery and gallantry by any of the troops in the large army of Napoleon. Was it no thing that the Poles were to be deprived of such an army, and that the name of it even was to be annihilated ? It was ex pressly stated by the Constitution of 1815, and particularly by the 59th clause, that there should be no confiscation in Poland by the organic statute—that was made only to apply to certai► State crimes to be defined by a special law. Now the pro. petty of any person in Poland might be confiscated. The Hon. Member referred to two advertisements he had seen in the Morning Post of February 26th, ()truing for sale property so confiscated Li Volhynia by General Sacken. Those adver. tisements mentioned the Serfs, for in Poland an estate was valued by the number of Serfs, just as in the West Indies an estate was valued by the number of negroes. The Hon. Baronet referred to the details of the advertisements to show that property of all descriptions was confiscated, and the Constitution in this point violated by the conduct of Russia. It would, however, probably be unnecessary for him to tres pass at any length on the House, after the statements already made. The fact of the removal of infants from Warsaw had made, as it ought to make, a great impression both on that House and on the country.—(Hear, hear.) When he found that Russia had thus violated all the stipulations which she had made, and that she was guilty of acts which she denied, he felt that he had iw other instances a right to doubt the good account which she thought fit to give of herself.—(Hear.) What was the conduct of Russia towards that Polish army which had so gallantly maintained their rights against her ? The remnants of that army were treated in a man ner contrary to all the rules of civilized warfare. No civilized nation for the last three hundred years had treated their prisoners of war in the way in which these unfortunate Poles were treated by Russia. No civilized nation ever degraded its prisoners, or employed them in base and servile work. They were sent off to Siberia, and to labour in the fleets and galleys of Russia, both to the Black Sea and to Cronstadt. Five hundred were sent to the Black Sea ; 3,500 to the Baltic; 7,000 Polish troops were sent to the Caucasus to garrison the block houses. If even, as it was contended by Russia, the Poles were to be considered as rebels, all that she was at liberty to do in that case was to punish them as rebels in the country where the rebellion took place.—(Hear, hear.) But she was not at liberty to destroy the nationality of a whole people for the offences of a few; and even if the offence Were universal, no conduct of such a kind could, on any principle whatever, be justified—(Cheers) ' " —more especially was this the case when it was considered that Poland was an ancient and an independent nation ; that she was not part of the great empire of Russia ; that at the settle ment of Europe in the Congress of Vienna, the kingdom of Poland was not given to the Emperor of Russia in absolute subjection and sovereignty, but rather as a precious deposit intrusted to her care by all the Powers of Europe.—(Hear.) What, too, had taken place in Poland with regard to their religion ? He was a sincere member of the Protestant Esta_ blishment ; and as he would view with the strongest disappro_ bation any attack upon the religion which he professed, so did he regard, with equal disapprobation, any injury or insult inflicted upon a nation professing a religion different to his own. The House would bear in mind that Poland was essen tially a Roman Catholic country ; and perhaps no nation in Eu rope was more ardent or sincere in its attachment to that form of worship. What was the conduct of Russia with regard to the religion of Poland ? She had exerted herself to the utmost to destroy and overthrow it. In whole provinces, all the con vents had been suppressed and the priests banished.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Russia thought proper to declare the convents to be nurseries of sedition and of anti.liussian feeling ; and as Poland was to be incorporated with the empire, she felt it neces sary to transform its inhabitants from Catholics into Greeks. When he saw conduct such as this to a nation, whose religious faith had been guaranteed in the strongest manner, not only by Russia, but by all the nations of Europe, he must say, such wilful uprooting of all the religious institutions of the country demanded au expression of feeling on the part of that house or no mild or ordinary character.—(Cheers.) The manner in which the Church of Rome was persecuted by Russia in some p nraormt his w o h f ia, ii t ic h dh e a the P l e o t l t ish ew rr u , e r r, c ,: v oi Warsaw svr whose w aows a e s oi m f. f o toh s r t ems s a, : hi a o m no e f fhu January ilcu al rl y e d hiet, pond, informed him th-t iti roe province 200 Roman Cat , --. lic convents had been ~upprtNsol, and between 2,000 and 3,000 priests banished. In fme of these convents the monks re tqurees, to c tedp e e l r ebr ni a s t s e ion' for the ~,it ti me p r e v i ous to th e ir depar. umass, which was granted—notice was given for a certain day, when an immense concourse of people at tended—mass was celebrated, and the Host carried in proces sion amidst the tears and cries of the whole population. The Governor became alarmed, and sent an officer of cavalry with orders to disperse the people, and prevent the conclusion of the ceremony—but so affected was the officer at witnessing the solemn procession, when men tottering under the weight of 80 years were for the last time performing the ritual of their religion, previously to their final departure from their home and country, that he threw himself on his knees, and joined in the extreme act of devotion, for which he was, on his re turn to the Governor, immediately placed under arrest.— (Hear.) He would not occupy the House any longer by these but he could not help feeling that no great national sin had ever been perpetrated without bringing down pational punishment.—(Hear.) For our individual sins we were individually responsible, and our punishment was, doubt less, wisely deferrci to a future state; but national sins in- volved nAtional punishments, which could be inflicted only in this life. He firmly believed that the great national crime of Europe in the eighteenth century was the partition of Po, land.—(Cheers.) He saw there three mighty Powers corm: bined to perpetrate one of the greatest acts of injustice ever . heard of. But on examining further into the history of those Powers, he saw the hand of the oppressor and spode* , fall heavily on them. He saw their capitals, iii succession ? made the prey of a great and hostile power —so /surely did national punishments follow national crimes. All the mills tary reputation of Prussia, perhaps at the moment beffife its fall, unrivalled in Enrope, Weld not preserve its capital... (Hear.) Austria, the most ancient of 'European Empires, twice yielded its capital to the mercy Of the conqueror; and Russia, even the mistress of so many nations, was sailed as a nation but by the loss of her capital.—(Hcaf, hear.) Whefi he saw these things, he asked was he not justified in.says ing that national &Mies involved national punishrdents (Hear.) He could not, therefore, but indulge the hope that' this crime—indeed it might be taid, in the language of a die: tinguished diplomatist, that it was went than *crime, for it wee a fault—he repeated, that when he reVietted the conduct of Russia towards Poland, he could not but belie:re that the day of retribution must shortly come.—(Cheers.) It Sees at lead as matter of some consolation that this country had, neither di, rectly nor indirectly, any share in the destruction of Ittfiend but, on the contrary, that she had strongly expressed her OA ,- nions and wishes in behalf of that brave nation. He did flatter' himself with the belief that a recognition by that House, in the face of Europe, of the right of Poland to different treatment, would not be without its use—(Hear, hear)—and he had only been deterred from making such a preposition earlier, lest it should have had the effect of doing more harm to the Poles than good. It would be a consolation to ourselves to make this re cognition. It was consistent with the purest and best feelings of human nature; and if it should, as he hoped and believed it would, eventually serve the cause of Poland; he, for one, should most sincerely rejoice that his Hon. and Learned Friend had brought forward the present motion.--(Loud cheering.) Lord PA LMERSTON said, the motion of the lion. and Learned Gentleman needed no apology for its introduce tion. It was one calculated especially to engage the sympathy of that House, and of the people of En t he who would not fail to feel most deep', for an en lightened, a noble, and a gallant people, Vile had met with most unmerited persecutions and misfortune*, and wire had been!:the victims of a political crime unparalleled history.— (Hear.) The Noble Lord then proceeded to pate la high compliment on the Hon. and Learned Member who had brought forward the motion fer the attention which he had pats to this interesting question. With many, Indeed he might say with all the arguments of his Hon and Learned Friend, he was prepared to concur.—(Cheers.) It was undoubtedly (tile, as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had stated, that the king., dom of Poland was not anciently part of the empire of Ruesia, and that the claim of Russia to Poland was founded not on 110 inherent rights, but on the basis, and consequently subject to the conditions of the treaty of Vienna, to which tire great Powers of Europe had given their sanction and their guarantee-- (Cheers.) The British Government felt, that ae one of trUes contracting parties to that treaty, they bad a right W interfere and express an opinion on a matter which, in their aolscep tion, was a departure from the stipulations which thil ? Art , common with the other contracting Powers, engaged to see carried into execution.—(Hear.) The first article of the treaty of Vienna was, that the kingdom of Poland should be in separably united with the empire of Ruesisl ,try its consti tution. If he was called on to interpret the meaning tf this article, he should be compelled to say that Its true spirit and meaning was, that the Constitution, whatever it might be, which should be given to Poland in pursuance of that article, was to be the connecting link between That country and Russia. The Constitution which was given by the Emperor of Russia to the kingdom of Poland, in pufau. ance of that treaty, should be considered as resting under the sanction of that treaty, and Russia was bound in good faith to have preserved to Poland the continuance of that constitution. (Hear.) He did not think the revolt of Poland absolved Russia from the obligations which arose under the treaty. In the first place, he was not prepared to say that the revolt of a people— and be it remembered Russia in all its ukases and proclamations had declared the revolt to be the act, not of the whole nation, but of a disaffected portion only—(Hear)—but even admitting that the whole people had revolted and the Sovereign had by force re-established his authority, he was by no means prepared to admit that such a circumstance justified him in abrogating the constitution which they had previously enjoyed. This was his opinion, were the matter in discussion -as one merely be tween Poland and Russia, and that no other parties were con cerned. He did not think the revolt of the Poles made any difference. Although, in his opinion, they were certainly wrong in onerespect, for, not content with asserting their rights under the treaty of Vienna, they thought proper to propose the dethronement of the Emperor, which under that Treaty they were not justified in doing. Still, even that circumstance would not justify the Sovereign in abrogating the constitution. But in this case there were other parties concerned in the matter. By the Treaty of Vienna the assignment of Poland to Russia was regarded as an European arrangement, to which the European Powers were parties. That treaty defined the relation in which Poland should stand to Russia, and on thatground alone, he con tended, the other Powers had a right to require of Russia that the Constitution should not be touched.—(Hear.) This opinion was one which had not been concealed from the Russian Go vernment. It had been communicated by anticipation to the Russian Government previously to the capture of Warsaw, and whilst the contest was yet undecided. When Warsaw fell, and Poland was at the disposal of the conqueror, before any defini. iive arrangement was made, that opinion was again distinctly and unreservedly conveyed to the Russian Government. Rus sia, however, took a different view of thequestion, and con tended that, by the revolutior M reconquest of Poland, it was put in the seine situation &silk In Which, according to their argument, it existed prior to .11jie treaty of Vienna and the grant of a Constitution; e., that all the institutions of the country must be esteemed to be swept away by the revolution ; and that it rested solely with the Emperor to determine what form of Government should be adopted, and to what institutions he would give his sanction. The reply of the English Govern. ment was, that having taken into full consideration the state.. ments of the Russian Ministry in support of their view of the case, England still adhered to the opinions before expressed ; and that the Constitution of Poland should remain as it did before the revolution, Russia having ne right to touch it. Aus tria and Prussia took the same view of the case with Russia, whilst France supported the opinion of England. It therefore became a question for the Britiah Government to consider, not what it was their strict right to do—not to what extent they had a right to enforce their interposition, but what, on a general view of the whole circumstances of the case, in reference to the state of Europe, and more especially the interests of Poland herself, would be the wisest course, of policy for the British Government to pursue. He could not but think, that however the House might concur in the exposition' of the treaty made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and however they might terminate the result of the contest, and however strong might be the sympathy with the English people, yet, upon a calm, deliberate, and dispassionate view of, he might say, the present state of Europe, they would agree with him, that it was wise on the part of his Majesty's Ministers net to involve Europe in a war in the hope and expectation of ultimately rescuing Poland from the oppression under which it suffered. —(Hear.) A general war it must certainly have been, when Austria, Russia, and Prussia, would take one side, and Eng land, France, and Poland the other. Austria and Prussia both possessed Polish provinces, and had, or, what was the same thing, fancied they had, a great interest in upholding the views of Russia. These great powers were ready to maintain their opinions at all risks. They had each of them large armies assembled on their respective . frontiers of Poland, ready to march at a moment's notice, and in less than one week, long before England or France could come to her assistance, overwhelm the unfortunate Poles, who could scarcely bear up against the single power of Russia.— (Hear, hear.) If, therefore, the Government wished to render the fate of the Poles certain, by involving them in such a contest with forces so greatly superior to their own, they had but to declare their determination of enforcing the treaty of Vienna by force of arms. He thought, therefore, that, whether in reference to the general results of a war in Europe, or in reference to the interests of the Poles them selves, he had successfully proved that his Majesty's Govern ment had adopted the wisest policy by contenting themselves at that time with expressing their sentiments as they did, clearly and decidedly, to the opposing Powers. The question was, whether at the present moment it was expedient for the House to agree to the motion before it.' It was not to be disguised that, however they might lament the change that had taken place in the national organization of Poland, no vote of that House would have the slightest effect in reversing it.—(Hear. hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman did - not ask- the House to go to war for the purpose of enforcing their views• lie would ask them whether it was likely that a s ie c r r e at io . t i e t : the opinion of that House would have s e u troc c ,i l tnt i han w etc e r i r g ue l ltitu w ieon tt s.tt. h p l e . I , t i u oi ss ks ia tr i a i n G e o es ve o r f nm Ei e ig n l t a a n s d t a o n i d nd l u ,r e a e nc th e_ eri st a cp t , :h t i o, s ,roxe t ,ag im afor e ,ut o n f dt d efd l itil t o : , retrace steps taken in opposition to thettrtihisittroig:tunriepeated re_ : :),y , e r . i nt t tt h e e eopiflersoonnoaruligefeerapnlaitnrsgt 000fffilTtaihdncidv.ildthuHalisaihrstioo,4sntararodgnsegaltyieLainl cpnloai,ltiaeiedosriin7l,at:ol, were unlikely that r tstl:i l iasio l nied, e kc, a .e r tas ..) n,,tda.hataL H , tde e siaert w t; a : det s :pe n tG, : i ile t eeits i y i t r ;al e e,n p ,z :se a : or ! rt at i d hiwen t idt o thhou , o i n3cr e ue i ggl y : accounts , t ir t; : e nr.cperotfa :ti their transportation r b io:lvellf4raimdt severity.—(No, eascFohd,eEn believed )lliaenr(edi With had th that, in sonto i:,,_ not altoi,eth..!: