The Sun. — London, England, 1831-02-19 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEBRUARY 18. The Post-Master -General Bill was read a third time and passed. The Duke of RICHMOND moved for a copy of the report of the Select Committee in the House of Commons on the subject of the poor laws. The Earl of ROSEBERY presented a petition from Falkirk in favour of Reform. Lord KING presented a petition from Chichester in favour of reduction of taxes; also several petitions from different parts of Ireland for the repeal of the Union. Lord KENYON presented a petition from Monmouth.. shire against slavery. On the motion of the Marquis of SALISBURY, the Poor Laws Amendment Bill was read a first time. The Earl of WINCHILSEA presented a petition from Sittingbourne for the employment of labourers; also peti tions from Lenbain and several other places praying for the repeal of the malt duties. The Noble Earl cordially concurred with the prayer of the petitioners, and ob served, that it was his firm belief that the measure of last year, with reference to the beer duties, which was carried into effect by his Majesty's late Ministers, had been the means in a great degree of causing those dis turbances which had taken place. He strongly recom mended the present Ministers to do away with the malt tax altogether, and to revise the land tax. The Duke of WELLINGTON denied that the course pursued by his Majesty's late Ministers had produced the effects attributed to them by the Noble Earl, observing, that it must be remembered that that measure did not take effect till October last, whereas the consequences attributed to it were in full force long prior to that period. COAL TRADE. The Duke of WELLINGTON, seeing the Noble Earl at the bead of his Majesty's Government in his place, w i s h e d to know whether Ministers, in the measure they intended to bring forward for the reduction of duty on sea borne coal, had adopted any plan by which it would be relieved from several of the local duties attaching upon it, particularly the 6d. and 10d. duties for the purpose of building London-bridge. He, the Duke of Wellington, having no doubt, if those duties were not taken off, the me,tsure proposed by Ministers would not have that bene ficial effect which it was generally considered it would have. Earl GREY had no doubt that great evils arose from the manner in which the coal trade was conducted in the city of London. With respect to the first object of the Noble Duke, he (Earl G.) understood there was a Bill about to be introduced into the other House. With respect to the 6d. and 10d. duties for the purpose of building London-bridge, that was a subject that would have to be further considered. because it was desirable, if possible, to relieve the coal trade from the pressure of that exorbitant duty, but at the same time he could not but observe to the Noble Duke that it was only a temporary measure, which would soon be removed in consequence of the com pletion of the object for wech it was imposed. The Marquis of BUTE thought it but justice to his Majesty's late Ministers to say that they were the first who instituted any inquiry into the state of the coal trade. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not give the late Government the credit which the Noble Nlarqu;s seemed anxious to ascribe to them, firmly believing that had they been in power at the present moment, his Ma j. sty's subjects would never have been relieved from the coasting duty on coal. • GREECE. The Earl of ABERDEEN said it would be in their Lordships' recollection that in the course of the last Ses sion of Parliament he had laid on the table certain papers relative to the pacification and ,settlement of Greece, among which there was a protocol of the several Powers, by which the limits and boundaries t! e new Greek State were determined. As the illustrious person who was looked up to for the future Sovereign of that country had declined the honour, and as the final ar rangement remained, therefore, incomplete, the several Plenipotentiaries had, as he had on that occasion in formed their Lordships, joined in an assurance both to Turkey and Greece that no change whatever should take place in the line of territory which was then defined. He should not, however, have called the attention of their Lordships at present to the subject of Greece, well knowing that the Noble Earl had more urgent duties to perform, and more pressing claims to satisfy, had not his particular attention been called to a report of a speech, said to have been delivered by the Minister for Foreign Affairs in Franee on this important subject. It would appear, that in answer to a strong attack made on the policy of his Government in the Chamber of Deputies, the Minister for Foreign Affairs said that the Affairs of Greece had occupied the fullest attention of the French Cabinet, and that it was owing to the French arms and to French intervention that the freedom of that country had been accomplished. That intervention he (the Earl of Aberdeen) supposed would be considered rather an awkward word by the Noble Earl, still the French Minister attributed the freedom of Greece alone to French arms and intervention ; and it would ap pear that that individual also added that the frontiers of Greece should be extended and new defined.—(Hear.)— De did not mean to ask the Noble Earl whether this re port of the speech was authentic or not, but he tilt that he was justified in inquiring if, after all the painful nego ciations that had taken place—if after all the assurances given to the respective parties that the settlement would not be disturbed—the Noble Earl had voluntarily opened the subject again, and entered into, or was about to enter into, any fresh arrangements? The question which he meant to put was shortly whether there was any negotia tion now pending which had for its object an extension of the Greek frontier ? Earl GREY said that to the question put so solemnly by the IN ob,e Earl he would have been able to have given a more satisfactory answer than he was at present compe tent to do, had the Noble Earl thought proper to have communicated previously to him the object of his inquiry. Pie had, however, now no difficulty in saying that, as the Noble Earl very kindly admitted, he had been so much occupied since his entrance Into office with matters of more immediate urgency, he had not paid the same at tention to the Greek question which he had to others of comparatively greater importance; and he did not know that any thing was passing at present in the, way of negociation for the extension of the frontier of the country. He did not state this positively, and it might be possible that the fact was otherwise, and indeed he had no hesitation in saying that in his opinion, if an extension of the frontier could be accomplished with good faith ro all parties, it would be very desirable to increase their limits, and to define them in a manner more suited to the new State than those that had been already laid down.— ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl had quoted a speech said to have been delivered by the Minister of Foreign Affairs for France ; but surely he could not call on him (Earl Grey) to say whether the report was correct or not, or re quire any explanation of it at his hands.—( Hear.) Cer tainlyhe could not be called on to explain a speech de livered in another country, and by the Minister of another Sovereign, the more particularly as it chanced that he had not seen or heard of the speech in question until this mo ment. There was a particular passage about the inter vention and arms of France, to which the Noble Earl called his attention ; but, however, much the Noble Earl might be alarmed or struck by the phrase, he need but remind the House that the " intervention" to which the French Minister referred had produced all its effects long before the present Administration had the direction of the councils of the country.--(Hear.)—.Whether that inter ference was right or wrong, he and his colleagues were in no degree responsible for it. Whether it be prejudicial or otherwise to the honour and interests of this country, be its effects what they may, the existing Goverrmebt was in no sense accountable.—( Hear, hear. )_li making the excuse which he had done for not giving a more de cided answer to the Noble Lord, it might appear that he had been neglectful of his duty but he could only repeat that he was pressed with more urgent topics, and that the affairs of Greece had not appeared to demand his imme diate consideration. The Earl of ABERDEEN was satisfied with what had been said by the Noble Earl, and he only hoped that he would be kind enough to give an answer when he had made the necessary inquiries. The Noble Earl was mistaken in the sense in which he referred to the word intervention. He only meant to say that the word was ominous at pre sent, and he could not apply, it to the past, as he was well aware the French intetference took place in conjunction with cur own.—(llear.) He only meant to insist that after this country had solemnly defined, with others, the bound +ries of the new State of Greece, and had given re peated assurances to Turk e y and to Greece that the terri tory should not be disturbed, it would be most irregular to open the question again. Earl GREY would be happy to giv e the desired infor mation at the first opportunity. He could not epee in the principle which the Noble Earl had laid down, and it would be found on examination that no Government had ever yet acted upon it ; for it would be str ange i ndeed if both parties agreed that an alteration of terms would be for their mutual advantage, that the subject could not be opened.—(Hear.) REFORM. The LORD CHANCELLOR presentezl a petition from 21,700 inhabitants, merchants, &c. of Edinburgh, complaining of the present state of the representation in that city. His Lordship observed, that be most fully concurred in the prayer of the petition. He believed it must be known to most of their Lordships that, inde pendent of his connection with Ministers, he always had been a warm friend of a safe, temperate, and constitutional Reform of the representation of the people, and that he was as far as any of those conscientious individuals whom , he must designate as opponents to this measure from ad vocating any rash, vain, or unsubstantial speculations on a subject of so much importance. The plan to be brought forward had, after the most mature deliberation and most anxious scrutiniting, received the unanimous ap probation of his Majesty's confidential servants and ad visers. But as to the nature of that plan he should not say one word more, either of its details or its general tendency, for the resolution to submit it to the considera tion of Parliament was not more unanimous than the resolution not to disclose any portion of that plan until it should be regularly submitted to the House. That course of conduct was necessary to do common justice to the measure itself, and was dictated by a most pro found respect fbr both Houses of Parliament, as well as the highest branch of the Legislature— he meant that most gracious Prince whom he had the ho nour to serve, and who, with the full knowledge of all the details, had given the measure his warmest concur rence and approbation. The LORD CHANCELLOR then presented a num ber of petitions, signed by 22,000 inhabitants. merchants, &c. of Glasgow. The Noble Lord presented also a similar petition from Cornwall. He took that opportunity of correcting an error which had gone abroad respecting the nature of the Reform proposed by his Majesty's Go vernment. H e had been asked whether the plan was the plan of the Government, or the plan of the Paymaster of the Forces supported by the Government, and he would answer what was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, that it was to all intents and pur poses the plan of the Government, brought forward by the Paymaster of the Forces, and not the plan of the Pay master of the Forces, supported by the Government. Earl GREY presented several petitions from Royal Burghs in Scotland, for Reform; from Northumberland, against slavery ; and from parishes in Ireland, against the present administration of the education grants. Lord DEJRIIAM presented petitions from Durham against tithes, and from Darlington against the Registrar tion Bill.—Adjourned at Half-past Six. HOUSE OF COMMONS, FEBRUARY B. - _ The SPEAKER took the Chair precisely at Three o'clock, some time previous to which Mr. O'CoNNELL took his usual seat on the Opposition Bench. TRURO ELECTION. Sir E. KNATCHBULL brought up the report of the Committee on this election, which declared the sitting Members duly elected. WINCHILSEA ELECTION. Sir G. MURRAY brought up the report on this ekc— tion, which declared the sitting Members duly elected. Mr. HUGHES HUGHES presented a petition from Southampton, praying to be allowed to erect and endow a new church. Mr. HUME supported the petition. He regretted this plan had not been adopted before the one million and a half of the public money had been squandered away on new churches. BOROUGH OF EVESHAM. The Marquis of CHANDOS, after the decision of list night, begged to move for leave to bring in a Bill to dis franchise Evesham, and transfer the franchise to Binning ham.—(Hettr.)--It was his intention to move that the Bill bo read a first time to-night, and a second time on Monday the 28th, when he proposed to examine witnesses at the bar.—Leave given. The LORD ADVOCATE presented petitions from Perth, Ross, Roxburgh, and a great many other places in Scotland, praying for Parliamentary Reform ; and also a number of other petitions for a repeal of the assessed taxes and the abolition of slavery. A new writ was ordered for the borough of Whitchurch, in the room of the Hon. R. Townsend, now Lord Sidney. The Marquis of CHANDOS brought up his Bill for disfranchising the borough of Evesham, and transferring the elective franchise to Birmingham.—Read a first time. The NOBLE MARQUIS then moved for a return of the number of persons entitled to vote in that borough since 1818, describing their respective residences.—Ordered. He then moved that the Bill be read a second time on Monday the 28th, on which day witnesses be ordered to attend at the bar. Mr. HUME asked the Noble Lord whether it would not be better to postpone it for a longer period, as the great question of Reform was to come on on Tuesday. The Marquis of CHANDOS could not consent to postpone the second reading on account of any measure of Reform that might be brought forward by his Majesty's Government. Mr. KENNEDY and Mr. O'CONNELL asked the Noble Lord to postpone the second reading to a Liter day. Mr. LITTLETON hoped the Noble Lord would consent., There could he no doubt that the question of Reform would occupy the undivided attention of that House for at least one week.—(Hear.) Sir G. CLERK thought every individual Member of that House would feel called on to express his opinion on the measure of Reform about to be introduced, but still he did not think that the discussion could last a week. He did not see any reason for the Noble Marquis postponing the second reading. Mr. J. WOOD trusted the attendance of witnesses would at all events be dispensed with until the Sth of March. Air. G. BANKES wished the second reading to be per. severed in. Lord MORPETH was not aware of the extent of Reform anticipated by Ministers, but be had no douLt B rmingham would have representatives, if Evesham was not to be one of the disfranchised boroughs. It would be better, therefore, to postpone tie second reading. Mr. STURGES BOURNE spoke a few words in favour of the postponement. _ _ _ Mr. HUNT ;aid it would be an aet of gro , s injustice to disfranchise Evesham for corruption such as that alleged against it, when it was known that three out of every four boroughs were equally if not more corrupt. He hoped the measure would be postponed till after the Ist of March. Mr. S. RICE did not rise for the purpose of throwing any difficulties in the way of the Noble Marquis, but on the score of economy he would press upon bias to post pone it. The expense of an inquiry into the forgery of signatures to the Carrickfergus petition had already cost the country 1,263/. After a few words from Mr. BRISCOE, General GASCOIGNE said the Noble Lord opposite stated that no dOubt Birmingham would have repres-nta tives, but there had been nothing said about disfranchising Evesham. He therefore saw no reason for postponing the measure. Mr. STANLEY spoke at length in favour of postpone ment, by reason of economy. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL said if the subject were to be taken up by the present Parliament, he (Sir Charles Wetherell) could not see with what propriety it could be postponed, as the House would bear in mind that the First Lord of the Admiralty had declared that if the Re form Bill was not carried Ministers would dissolve Parliament.—(Loud cries of "hear, hear," and "no, no.") He would repeat that he did say so, and therefore how could a Bill for disfranchising any borough be brought in when Parliament was dissolved. His autho rity that Parliament would certainly be dissolved was that of the First Lord of the Admiralty, and he (Sir C. Wetherell) thought that the Right Honourable Gentleman knew more on the subject than the Hon. Members for Middlesex or Preston.—(A laugh.) Yes, he knew more, too, than the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, who was not a Member of the Cabinet, but who, by-the-bye, was fully deserving of it for the praise worthy and prompt manner in which he had conducted the late prosecutions in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He hoped the Noble Marquis would not give way to the taunts and sneers of the other side of the Houw, but persevere in bringing forward his motion. Fir J. GRAHAM said he took shame to himself for net having been in his seat sooner. As he had been absent, however, at the commencement of the discussion, he hoped he might be excused from arguine , the question ; since his arrival, be had heard something about those very frequent and fruitful topics—economy and Reform, but would not touch upon them. He thought, however, he might venture to reply to the appeal made to him by the Hon. and Learned Member (Sir C. Wetherell) ; for, as that Hon. Member was in the habit of heaping word upon word, and matter upon matter, and principle upon principle, although he had not heard the beginning of his speech, yet, having heard the end, he might calculate he heard it all.—(Laughter.)—The Hon. and Learned Member declared that he (Sir J. Graham) said, in terms as plain as the discretion of Parliament would admit, that if the Reform Bill should fail, Parliament would of necessity be immediately dissolved. Now, the fact was, that he, in terms as guarded as words could be, only glanced at the probability of such an event. If the contemplat e d measure of Reform should fail, it was pro bable (and in no hi g h er d egree o f assert i on h a d h e pu t it before) Parlia ment wou ld b e di sso l ve d. Thi s was w h at G n vheardo mfuernntterwlyaa ple d ged statell, to br i ng forward and this he did or thenard ameas u re repeat. o Thef real, efficient, and substantial Reforni.—(Hear, bear)-- and for one, he could declare that measure would not have had his support, if it were of the same illusory character as the measare then under discussion. But he could assure the House his Noble Friend's mea sure would neither be idle nor worthless ; but, on the contrary, searching and decisive ;--in short, it would not be of the Evesham character.—(Hear, hear, hear. )—ln considering this question he had never been induced to overlook the fact, that he teas accountable to his constituents and never would he support any plan of Parliamentary Reform, which he could not vindicate on the hustings in the face of his constituents ; and he begged to remind and give warning to Hon. Members, that in like manner whenever they might give their concurrence and support to any measure of Reform, they would owe an account to their constituents of that support and that concurrence.—(Hear, hear.) Colonel DAVIS undoubtedly considered the great ques tion of Reform or no Reform of very essential importanc e to be discussed as early as possible. If a dissolution of Parliament, however, took place, undoubtedly it would take place before the Noble Marquis (Chandos) could bring in his Bill. He knew Evesham to be one of the most corrupt boroughs; and if his Majesty's Ministers did not mean to disfranchise that borough, and give the franchise to some other place, he hoped the Noble Marquis would persevere in his Bill, and in doing so he should have his support. Mr. CAMPBELL regarded the present discussion as a skirmish taking place before the general battle of the I at of March commenced; and he thought the event of that battle would very much depend upon the fate of the pre sent skirmish. He had the highest opinion of the Noble Mar quis, but he could not divest himself of the persuasion that this was nothing but a mere manceuvre on the part of the Noble Marquis. —(Cries of " No, no.") It appeared like it to the Hon. Member, and if the motion were to be carried for the summonses to be issued for the 28th of February, his firm opinion was that the measure of Reform would be lost to all intents and purposes if the second reading of the till was to take place then. The SPEAKER observed that the House had previ ously decided that the Evesham Disfranchising Bill should be read a second time on the 28th of February, and the simple question now was, whether the witnesses should be ordered to attend on that day six weeks. Mr. CAMPBELL said a few words inaudibly. Colonel TRENCH thought nothing could excuse the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite in attributing ma nceuvre to the Noble Marquis, except his being absent when the present discussion began. He was desirous of asking the Hon. Member for Preston a question. The Hon. Mem ber for Preston had said that Evesham would not be afraid of inquiry, because there were many other places as bad as that. How could this be consistent with any thing like sound sense ? Was the Hon. Member prepared to assert that one ro,.;ue when detected was not to be pro secuted, because it might not be in his power to lay hold of the rest of the gang ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was surprised at the length of this discussion, and that the wish should be so perseveringly persisted in to have the wit nesses summoned for the 28th. It appeared to him to be unnecessary to call up witnesses for the day before the discussion of a measure which, whatever might be its result, would be sure to take more than one day. It appeared to him to be altogether unnecessary, and evidently useless, to enter into an examinatio n which must last several days, just on the day previous to entering upon the discussion of a measure of the utmost importance to the whole of the country from one end of it to the other.—(Loud cheers.)—The Noble Lord opposite would hardly wish for the question of Reform to be put off. Tice House had decided that the Bill should be read a second time on the 28th of February, it was now moved that the witnesses should be summoned for that day ; but he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was decidedly of opinion that the examination ought not to be began till the Bth of March, and then ample time would be given for the discussion of the Reform measure, without having it broken in upon. There was, however, a diffi culty, but he should propose to get rid of that difficulty in this way, namely, that he (Lord Althorp) should support the amendment of his Hon. Friend the Member for Preston to summon the witnesses for the Bth March, and move the discharge of the order for reading the Bill a second time from the 28th February to the Bth of March.—(Hear.) Mr. ROSS was very glad to find that Honourable Members had had this opportunity of explaining. In his opinion there could be no reason whatever for postponing the summoning of the witnesses from the 28th instant. A more unsatisfactory reason for such a proposition could not have been assigned than the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer had given. There were but six witnesses to be examined, and he could see no reason why that examination should not be commenced on the 28th. Sir GEORGE WARRENDER thought it would be highly improper to postpone the measure of Reform, or to allow any thing to interfere with its discussion. The Honourable Member who had just sat down was not to buoy himself up with the idea that there would be only six witnesses to be examined.— (Hear.)—lf the case against Evesham was made out, whenever it should come on for discussion, he, for one, should certainly vote for the disfranchisement, and for the transfer of that franchise to a larger town. Lord PALMERSTON thought his Noble Friend's (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) proposition ought to be adopted ; and, as had 'already been observed, the House was not to he de!uded into a supposition that there were only six witnesses to be examined. Perhaps six might be considered sufficient for one aide of the ques tion, but then who could say there might not be six times six brought forward on the other side. Mr. DUNCOMBE could not allow the Honourable and Learned Gentleman opposite to say there was any manoeuvre in the present effort, without throwing back that imputation with the utmost indignation. The present question was altogether unconnected with the measure of Reform, and as to any threat on the part of any Hon. Member to dissolve Parliament, and for the Government to throw itself upon the country should the Government not be able to carry its great measure of Refom, such threats were not new. Other Ministers had been heard to use the same language. It was undoubtedly in the breast of his Majesty to dissolve his Parliament if he should think fit, but it was always better to abstain from any such threats. It was undoubtedly of the greatest im portance to have the disfranchisement of Evesham gone into without delay ; but he would ask his Noble Friend to reconsider the subject, and then to say whether it would not be better for the justice of the case that he should not press his motion, but rather fall in with the Noble Chancellor of the Exalt, quer's proposition. _ _ The House was ordered to be cleared amidst cries of _ - '• Question, question, question." When we got into the gallery again we found the House had not divided, but that it was agreed that the witnesses should he ordered to be summoned for the Bth of March. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day for the House going into a Committee on the Canada Acts. DISTRESS IN IRELAND. On the question that the SPEAKER do leave the Chair having been put, Mr. D. BROWNE said he was about to pursue an un usual course. He had had petitions in his hands for some days from the West of Ireland ; they were from various parts. He most respectfully solicited the attention of the House to the subject. The petition e rs complained of want of employment, and of the probability of starvation before the end of this month.—(Hear.) There would be pro bably, before a month passed, 200,000 persons without any food in the West of Ireland. For seventeen years he knew the House of Commons to be attentive to the inte rests of Ireland.— (Hear.) They sometimes, it was true, passed them over from want of adequate knowledge, but never from want of zeal or kindness. He would not go into the remote causes of this distress, because it would lead to long discussion. In 1822 Ireland contained 250 persons to every square mile, while England contained only 222. It was well known that there was great want of employment in England. How much worse must he the state of Ireland ? Whatever c tuse produced the effect, it was the duty of Government to arrest the progress of famine. He regretted that since 1822 no experiment was made to remedy those evils. He expected they would have tried colonization or the cultivation of waste lands. The place in greatest distress was the barony of Erris, in the county of Mayo. The Rev. Mr; Lyons, a Catholic clergy man, informed him that before the end of this month there would he 30,000 persons without food, in consequence of the failure of a certain species of manure, driven in by the iso, which they usually employed. This clergyman in formed him that numbers were now living on the charity of neighbours nearly as poor as themselves. A deficiency of crops prevailed along the whole of the western coast. Letters on which he might rely, informed him that the whole of this district must be without food for three or four months if not relieved—if they did not obtain either money or the means of earning it. Two hun dred thousand pounds, about twopence halfpenny a day for each, would at the least be necessary to keep soul and body together.—( Hear.) His reason for not bringing the subject forward earlier, was that he had the greatest confidence in Ministers, and felt confident they would do all in their power to mitigate the evil. 51r. Lyons had still 500/. remaining from a collection of 9001. which he made last year in England. felt- confident he would dispose of this in the best way. Ile had already.taken some land to distribute among the people. They did not want food for nothing. What they wanted was employment. This distressed state of the country prevented the Marquis of Sligo from coming over this Session to discharge his Parliamentary duties. The distress was aggravated by a storm a short time back, which destroyed most of the fish ing -boats. The Secretary for Ireland told him he should not agree to a Committee, and he thought he was right. Something, however, must be done, or the people would starve. He disapproved of an advance of money in such cases, but something must be done. If funds to the amount of 150,000/, or 180,0001. were properly disposed of in public works, much good might be done. One ad vantageous way of laying out the money would be to make a road along the coast to this Barony of Erris. He would suggest also the making of the river Moy navigable. Let Government next year take the rent, and tithes too, to secure themselves for this advance of money. All inte rests should yield to that of a starving people. Mr. LAMBERT, as we understood, confirmed the statement of his Hon. Friend. Mr. O'GORMAN MAHON bore testimony to the truth of the statement made by his Hon. Friend. He hoped the Government would interfere. The distress was as great in the county of Clare. He presented a petition the other night which stated that there were then 3,000 persons in one part of the county who were starving, and that the number must soon be increased. To the name of the Marquis of Sligo he would add that of Sir R. O'Donnel, who was prevented from the same cause from attending his Parliamentary duties. The church property of Ireland was originally intended for the relief of the people, and means should be taken to employ it for that purpose. fie hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would reconsider that tax, which must fall very heavily upon the poor labourers of Ireland. The object of it was not, be be lieved, to shut them out from this country. Let it be imposed on the cabin passengers, but not on the pour crea tures who came here to get a living. Mr. J. SMITH said he believed the distress in the county of Clare to be excessive. They must not suffer the people to starve. In 1730 there was a part of the county of Tipperary suffering all the horrors of famine to his knowledge. He hoped the Chancellor of the Exchequer would thin his attention to the poor of Ireland. He was prepared to vote for a system of poor laws for that country. Starvation was not an uncommon case there. If employ ment was given for the relief of the people, he hoped is would not be made a job, as was too often the case in lre_ land. To that country they owed a great debt of gratitude, Mr. STANLEY said, however inconvenient lie felt this course to be, he should not be justified in suffering the statement of his Hon. Friend to pass without observation. He should be glad to have it in his power to say that the statement was exaggerated, but he had not. In the ba• rony of Erris, and of Tyrawley, the neighbouring barony, distress prevailed little short of famine. He would not pretend to deny that great distress did prevail in the county of Galway, and of Clare also. He had a petition from the barony of Tyrawley, which conveyed, in more forcible terms than he could, though in plain language, an idea of the state in which the people were. (The Right Hon. Gentleman read a long extract from the pe tition, describing the distress and suffering of the people. They stated that they formerly had a linen trade, which was now gone ; that they were unacquainted with the mode of rendering the ground most productive, and were without capital to expend on it ; that they were most willing and desirous to labour for the support of their fa milies, but could find no employment, and they humbly recommended their case to the wisdom and consideration of Parliament.) In this petition there was not one word bordering on insubordination, not one expression of po litical discontent or hostility. Government was now called upon to provide some remedy for this state of wretchedness and suffering. He might appval to the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) whether any thing could be more painful than to be placed in a situation where one must hear of such complaints, and at the same time be debarred, both by conscience and by principle, from ap plying the public money in the way of remedy. What could Government do ? Could they prevent such occa. signal distres in those districts, where, if that crop which was the sole resource of the people failed, they must ne- cessarily be driven t►► a state bordering on starvation. He disapproved of any plan of relief to be effected by the spoliation of the landlords. He must, however, express his belief that a great portion of the distress now existing was attributable to the landlords. They did not come forward as they ought to have done. He had an account of the rental of the barony of Erris, from which it ap peared that it amounted annually to 10,4001. The only relief afforded by the landlords was a loan of 100/. (Hear)—of this 701. was subscribed by non-resident s , and of this 701., 501. was subscribed by a constant non-re .. silent a gentleman living . iti the county of Kildare. These matters he stated knowingly, and upon the best au thority. Government would not be justified, without in quiry, in having recourse to any measure to supply the de ficiency of local subscriptions. They accordingly de puted a gentleman to visit these districts which were represented as being in such a state of misery. His statement was that the local subscriptions were next to nothing. He was happy to say that in Mayo the conduct of the Noble Marquis before referred to had been productive of the greatest benefit; but his per sonal presence had conferred a moral benefit, equal, if not superior, to the private contributions from his purse. He had advanced one thousand pounds for the purchase of flex, which would afford considerable employment to the women in the district in which he resided.—(Hear, hear.)—lf this example were followed by the gentry in the various parts of Ireland, there would be no necessity for appealing to the charity of this country, which, if appealed to, would, he was sure, not be so appealed to in vain. —(Hear, hear. )—lt was not the duty of Government to bring for ward any measure of gratuitous relief for Ireland, al though if he were asked what the Government meant to do, he would answer—to open the means of new industry for the people; and in order to do so, that the Government would make an advance of money for public works, upon security being offered for its payment. On such a subject it was necessary that every caution and discretion should be used. However, this he could add, that Government were most anxiously engaged in considering the details of the measures for the relief of Ireland, as the only fair and practical mode of meeting her present distress. The baronies of Erris and Tyrawley afforded sufficient grounds for immediate relief, and it would be improper at present to say more.---( Hear, hear.)--He feared he had trespassed too long already on the patience of the House—(Hear, hear)—but he felt be would have been guilty of a dere liction of his duty if he had not thus frankly stated the intentions of Government with respect to .the admitted distress of certain parts of Ireland. Sir R. PEEL said, from his experience of Irish affairs, he could readily concur in the opinion that nothing was more impossible than for this House to afford entire and immediate relief to her general distress. The present Go vernment, like the former, had every disposition to relieve and improve the condition of Ireland ; but to ask for a public grant, without security for its repayment, could in no degree relieve the present amount of distress; it would rather.have a tendency to aggravate it. If the immediate advance asked for were granted, he feared, as in former instances, that it would cause a rise in the market prices of different articles, and particularly so if it were once considered that the Government were the purchasers of provisions. There might, however, be such an over whelming necessity in particular cases, as that the silence of Government with respect to their measures of relief would cause great uneasiness, and therefore he was glad that so much, and no more, of the plan intended by Go vernment, had been stated to that House. He had no doubt that a proper sympathy for the sufferings of the Irish people had called forth that statement; but one thing was clear that no Government could take upon themselves a task which individuals only could properly perform. He had bad con s id era bl e exper i ence u pon this subject, and up on t h at groun d h e wou ld leave the matter in the hands of Government, being fu ll y s atisfied that if th e y s h ou ld fi n d i t necessary to a ppeal to Parliament for the adoption of measures which a pressing necessity might demand, they would find such a degree of sympathy in this country, such a degree of sym pathy in this House of C ommons, w hi ch had been so muc h calumniated and reviled—(Hear)—as to induce their at once coming forward, anti relieving to their utmost ability the distress of the sister country.—(Hear.) The caution used by the Government as to their plans upon this sub ject was wise and prudent : it did not resu l t f rom any cal culations of political economy or want of feeling, but from the absoluta necessity of the case. He could not avoid ex pressing his surprise that the Nobility and Gentry of Ire land could see such distress around them as hat been stated without at once affording all the relief in their power, and also without calling upon the Government for that purpose. H e protested against any suc h tyrann i ca l measures being resorted to by the Hon. Member (Mr. D. Browne) as that of withholding or mortgaging the rents and the tithes for a whole year in order to relieve the poor.—(" No, no," from Mr. Browne.) To such a doctrine he (Sir R. Peel) could never assent, and as an English gentleman he would much rather lend his own funds for the relief of the poor, than be any party to such a spoliation.—(Cheers.) Mr. D. BROWNE said he never wished the landlords -or . "4,be elertzto be deprived of their rents or their tithes, but thi poor should have a prior claim. Sir R. PEEL explained. Mr. O'CONNELL said that every thing which he had heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Stanley) met with his concurrence. But the landlords in the two Ba ronies alluded to could not relieve the distress which existed in the west of Ireland. The peopl e of Naas were also in the greatest distress, and partial relief, though useful, could be of little general benefit to the Irish poor. Mr. STANLEY, in explanation, said his observation only applied to the circumstance that the greatest fear of famine existed in the baronies to which allusion had been made. Mr. J. BURKE said that the distress of the landlords in the western coast of Ireland was of such a nature, that the landlords had it not in their power to relieve it. T.., reduction of the duty on kelp, and the withdrawal of the bounty upon the fisheries, were a coniderable cause of dis tress, and entitled the poor to the sympathies of Parlia ment. He felt much obliged to the Marquis of Anglesea for the good example which he had set to the landlords of Ireland, and he sincerely hoped it avould be widely fol lowed.—(Hear.) He was sure that advances of money by the Government would do a vast deal of good, if they were only to be made upo❑ the security of County Grand Juries in Ireland.--( Hear. ) Sir J. NEWPORT, as far as we could hear him, observed that rents in Ireland were so unequal that no adequate nava , sure of relief could be afforded by landlords t► their tenants. Mr. WYSE said that a Government grant, by way of gratuity, would be of little permanent advantage to Ireland. The distress of the western coast of Ireland had been often pressing and severe, but his object was that some perma nent relief should be afforded to Ireland. There was no monument of good government upon the part of England in the sister country, and the fault must either be in the institutions of the country, or in the conduct of the land lords and their tenantry.—(Hear, hear.)—He considered that the alteration in the currency had materially injured Ireland, but unfortunately lie could see no remedy at pr e sent for it. The employment of the surplus labour of the poor would be of essential benefit, and he had intended himself to propose a distinct measure on the same subject. The absentee landlords should he made to pay the Govern ment for those advances which they might feel it necessary to make. He rejoiced that Ministers were determined to commence a new era with Ireland, and thereby render advantage to both countries. He wished to consummate the Union, not to break it.—(Hear.)—He therefore re gretted the proposed tax upon steam-boats, because he did not see why the Irish labourers should be denied the means of obtaining employment in this count! y. At all events, if the tax were laid on, let the rich absentees be made to pay it.—(Hear.) An Hort. MEstneß, whose name we did not hear, said he had listened with great attention to the debate, but he was surprised that so one had yet proposed a poor-tate for the relief of Ireland. No other measure could be of real utility to that country; and, if it were proposed, it should have his decided support. Mr. M. FITZGERALD said it was a matter of diffi culty and danger for the Government to interfere in these subjects of local distress in Ireland. He had said so pri vately, and he would be ashamed if he did not publicly say the same. On former occasions the interposition of Government had greatly enhanced the distress of Ireland by the rise of prices in the different markets; and if the Government now interfered, they should have security from the landed proprietors in the different districts to be ' relieved. If that were not the case, the advances would fail of their just effect, however well intended they might be in the first instance. It was the duty as well as the interest of proprietors in Ireland to see to the proper dis tribution of any funds that might be entrusted to their care.—(Hear.) . . Mr. SADLER maintained that no partial measure would remedy evils of such a nature and of a recurrence so frequent. It was the duty of a wise and provident Go-, verntnent to anticipate evils of such an incessant recur rence, by establishing a system of poor laws which hid , been recommended in every other country of Europe.— Galway and Mayo were two of the least peopled districts of Ireland, and yet it was there that distress was the most , severely felt. The proportion of land to individuals was as 20 acres to each person, and yet distress was constant and general. Absenteeism, he believed, was one of the greatest causes of the distress. _ _ . Mr. SLANEY begged to remind the Hon. Member who had just sat down, that population was not dense, nor the reverse, in proportion to square acres, but in the ratio of capital, and to the nature of the soil. Mr. KEITH DOUGLAS, before the Speaker left the chair, would impress upon his Majesty's Ministers the ne cessity of taking into their serious consideration the dis tressed state of tie West India interests. An HON. MEMBER, put a question to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, which the Noble Lord answered, hut from the extremely confused state of the gallery, it was impos sible to ascertai❑ even the object of the inquiry, or the nature of the reply. COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. The House then resolved itself into a Committee e! Supply. Sir A. GRANT in the Chair. THE CANADAS. Lord HOWICK said, that in moving the resolutions upon which he intended to settle the financial arrange ments of Canada, he thought it essentially necessary to his suliect to state to the House the nature and origin of those contests which had prevailed in the colony between the representatives of his Majesty's Government and the co lonial assemblies of legislature. He would not trouble the House upon this part of the subject at any very great length ; for the report of the Canada Committee, and the frequent recurrence to the topic in Parliamentary discus sious, must have satisfied Hon. Members as to the merits of the case. For the information, however, of younger Members of the House, and of those whose attention had not hitherto been called to these contests, he felt that it was necessary for him to give a general outline, or a slight sketch, of the disputes and of their consequences, as well as of the means by which he trusted their recurrence would be for ever prevented, to the satisfaction and benefit of all parties. A considerable portion of the revenues of Canada was raised under an Act of Parliament passed in the 14th of George M. In the year 1791 another Act was brought into Parliament by which the Constitution and Government of Canada were established. One of the principal clauses of this last Act was a pro vision that the local or provincial Parliament or Houses of Assembly in Canada should not pass any Bill which might have the effect of altering Acts of the British Legislature, which related to the colony or to its produce and revenue. Under the words of this Act it had always been contended by the officers of his Majesty's Government that a strictly legal right of disposing of the revenues of the colony resided 111 the British Crown. But in ISIS the provincial Parliament, by an Act of the British Legislature, were empowered to vote sums in aid of the revenue of Canada, and the pro vincial Parliament then assumed the right, or set forth the claim, of controlling the expenditure of the colony, the burden of which it was called upon to bear. It would be obvious to all who heard him, or who reflected upon the subject, that the Houses of Legislative Assembly in the Colony had the power to enforce their claims upon the subject, as long as the Executive . Government had to come to them for supplies. In this dilemma, he was sorry to say Lord Dalhousie, the Governor, and Ministers at home endeavoured to get out of the difficulty by the alternative of breaking the law.----(Hear, hear.)—The House must be well aware of what a miserable situation Canada was thrown into for some years in consequence of this breach of the law and violation of the Constitution of the Colony. The conflicts between the Governor and the governed pro duced serious mischief to the community at large, and it ended in those numerous petitions to the House which at last led to the appointment of the Canada Committee, the report of which had put Hon. Members in possession of the facts of the case. The Committee had recommended what was very proper to be done; but it was not in the power of the Crown, without the assistance of Parlia ment, to put an end to these unfortunate disputes in the manner which the Committee advised. It had therefore ken the intention of Government to bring in a Bill to enable Ministers to pursue the recommendation of the Committee, and thus to restore the Colony to tranquillity ; but the lateness of the Session precluded the possi bility of carrying the Bill through all its stages be fore the prorogation of Parliament. Sir James Kemp had succeeded Lord Dalhousie as Governor of the Co• logy, and one of his first steps was to inform the Provin cial Houses of Assembly that no further illegal propositions should take place, and that the rights and constitution of the colony should be respected. He then prayed the As sembly to pass a Bill of indemnity for what had taken place, and be informed them that the salaries of the tiffi_ cers of Government alone should be pail out of the pro vincial revenue until the wishes of Parliament upon the subject were made known ; for the Government then had under its consideration a plan of finally settling the sub ject. The Assembly a few days after passed astiong reso lution, that it possessed the sole power of appropriating the whole revenue of the colony, and that no resolution of the House (of Commons) could avail in settling the ques. don. A Bill passed as a provincial measure under these ci i,a r s c s u ed rn a sta s n im ce i s la , r ad B n ill, in aru l i S it 29 the Provincial was oniyb L ythe greegaittilattxuerre ;ions and popularity of Sir J. Kemp that he waft enabled Niu i was t he snake to prevent the evil consequences of such a state of diced The Right Hon. and Gallant General opposite (Si r Murray), as the Secretary of State for the Colonial k t j r e e c st t , , lg N t V io h n ie:l ie partment, had list year brought in a Bill upon the (Lord Hovvick's) duty to propose a Bi:lgrounded oP°ll, move all existing di ffi culties, and enable his Majesty to sent to the Acts of the Provincial or Colonial Assel which related to the appropriation of the revenue• j Governor of Canada would be directed an surrenderdtowh was v,,as a n b o: out c; o rr p ied ro , pt a n n e d , it was thereforeti Provincial Assembly the whole of the disputed revenue,P, at the same time he would ask of the Assembly a m ode l provision for the salaries of the Governor and Judges , to • ought not to depend upon the annual vote of the sembly. In point of fact, it was proposed that what ri ', ls s hould be called a civil list, upon a moderate scale, voted every seven years. The Governor's salaries at' contingencies were proposed to be made 5,2001• p er . a br charges were fixed, so that the whole list would atae u ti e ,: num, the salaries of the Judges, 1,000/., and various ot to 19,1001., of which 5,00 9 /. was already granted by re ! pvervuienc,i,afl 31,0001., and d so in tb r a e t tt t ir h n e fCurrowwnhieghavie tsked tb gr.:nt of only 14,000/. It was further prop o s ed _ t A lh Judges should in future hold their o ffi ces upon r"" v ioor, and that no Judge, except the Chief Justice, s " v ieh vj ou would be a member of the Executive Council, or interfere eic,al party or local politics. It was also designed that the lonia! Legislature should possess the power of alteriog t " . ten ure tv e Acts of Pith 'anent which had regulated the lands. It was well known that the co!ony had bee° If scene of many jobs, which he trusted would in fattret it prevented The Noble Lord concluded by inoving,,tu't of justice, and the support of the civil government ° i atGA e hf. o etun p rae3 i ter n hiti i uce l or n inftpßt o rcio f lAoevl t oyi l: nli e oi4sen c ptsi t o. :m f z r : ot t .h t i e ei e L t a ll pi a op t rn i t,p t h er w i a a at s diorp e n s i p : e ifi d tf i d e , :i outo 'd confusion, which rendered ke mostremark s amidstof hisa degree of in:aiuseija4di in the gallery. The Right Hon. Member was '7 4 ble stood to say, th a t f rom w h at h a d f al l en from :h e t i ... e e - 0 Lord, new m em b ers , unacqua i nted w i th w h a t done in the last Parliament, might suppose that tite r " t he some want of du e a tt ent i on to t h e affairs of Canada °n part of the lat e G overnment. This, however, be 'to leave to deny, and i n con fi rmat i on of that d en i a l referr ed b e th! course taken by th e C a bi net of wh i ch h e w as a ja m be in relation to the su bj ec t. Af ter o b serv i ng that d uri ng bsd the session before last a measure of great importance the the almost exclusively engaged the attention of Right Hon. Baronet said that last session a Bill w li i ic b e e li had brought forward with respect to Canada h elj t to p only interrupted by a melancholy event that put * s h - ide• many other measures of a public nature. It had bee n ".„-- re' cided opinion that we ought to interfere with a yieW " - c o, coneile the differences existing bet ween the two brain of the legislature in Canada. The Right Hot'. 3j ; r l bf alluded to the report of the Canada Committee qu a d bac Lord Howick, and obs e r ve d th at i t di st i nct ly star 4 e i r lo the House of Ass em bly oug h t to h ave a contro ul °vet.%of crown revenues, but that th e J u d ges an d grea t 01 6 e e 'ij i si State should be independent. It appeared from th is -se 0 , the principle of th e N o bl e L or d' s measure was by no 31/ n ed new. He sincerely hoped that its effect might corresr, will the intentions of its framers, and produce th e y i d pected degree of conciliation in Canada. Meo ll . aa , 11 , been made of a system of jobbing in the colont ee be challenged the N o bl e L or d to po i nt out any job W,hjust." (Sir G. Murr a y) was at t h e h ea d o f t h e C o l on i a l m e ri ° ment.--(Hear, hear.) It was a ll a l ong hi s most an s l, o desire to pu t sue a lib era l course towards the co looiet o i he would not make such concessions to the Asse° 36 „ iY i ser woald give it an u n d ue prepon d erance over t h e two . 0 4 branches of the-legislature; and the policy which he, 00 ... proposed to pu rsue w i t h respect to both prov ince , — . 0 .. slated in ext en di ng t h e l eg i slative council as muc h a 4 Bible. liba Lord HOWICK did not mean to impute any thi n g;, e . jobbing to th e Ri g h t H on. Gentleman in his adi ni t b - ,r tion of the co l on i es ; b ut appea l ed to the House in former ti mes , t h ere h a d not b een the grossest 0rg,... - . • jobbing whit respect to the colonies. This was all "" tended to convey. 1 , 0 Mr. LABOUCHERE sa id , h e h a d oppose d brought forw ar d b y t h e Ri g h t H on. Gentleman °PIT; and should supp or t t h e measure o f hi s N o bl e Friers Ik e cause he considered it calculated to benefit Canada- —i l e st pliment which h e cou ld not pay to t h e propos ition e eo jeg year. Hi s o pi n i on was , t h at our on l y mo d e of geve,,—s far Canada well, wa s n ot t o a t tempt t o govern it a t ear as the internal administration of the country lt— fee tljr eeroed. He b e li eve d t h at t h e C ana di ans wer e r r n tr y, loyal and a tt ac h e d to t h e connex i on with th i s Col ta pi ovided they were only treated fairly. It became r o ul cultivate this feeling ; for if ever we alienated the dians, and thr e w then into the scale of p o wers hog t " e al o t this country, w e s h ou ld severe l y su ff er b y i t. We °Wrifi' to the colonies a nd t o ourse l ves — we owe d it to put.ees, interest and character, to afford them as much haPP I : o r and freedom as it w a s i n our p ower t o b es tow. la r ite elusion, the Hon. Member expr e ssed a h o pe that th e f. t he ciple applied by the Noble Lord t o th e se ttlement a l oe question of revenue, might also be applied to man/ a ler gY subjects in which the colonies were interested--tb e reserves among others. t" Mr. H. TWISS observed, that one feature ° I- to Noble Lord's measure was, that it enabled the Gove rl3° .,ht assent to such measures as the Canadian Legislature 1131;on propose with respect to revenue, but made no P r°lfl och for its disposal in the intermediate time previous " i f et is an arrangement. This he objected to as a great d ce t htit the proposition. Th e H on . M em b er f urt h er adde d ' t he in every respect but as to the provision for the Jadg e° „' l ieh Noble Lord's propositi o n (for which h e received s° ,;:ii of credit) was the same as hi s Right lion. Friends Pl-pci, list year, which, howeve r , was not so f ortuna te ill c) liating supporters. 40 °1 Lord SANDON had no d ou bt b u t th a t the exP er oc eed proposed to be tried with re s p ec t t o C ana d a would' be , completely, and congratulated his Noble Friend 1 1 1 )° ' ing the man to carry it into effect. 1 P ia° Mr. HU,IE said, the great difference between and that of last year was, that the Noble Lord's P r °,` A ri' o tion was practicable, while th e Ri g ht H o n. Genttoed never could have been carried into effect. He also eltlTf e el• his opinion that it w as b e tt er t o t rust t o the logs of Canada to do what was right, than to atternr t li ercion. He wished to know whether the m easure WOO both to Upper and L ower C ana d a . S ure h e %vas t A i r a os passing of such an A c t wou ld b e to t h e Canau; c on' highly-prized boon; it would afford satisfaction 3° 140P, tent, without which colonies were not worth ; 3 110' He thought if th e Bill passed, Canada ought to be, e B p' upon to support it s o w n mi lit ary establishment.O o prehended that the. Canadi ans themselves would objection to this : he k new th at t h ey we re Wi l t r Government would all ow th em , to ra i se t h re e regu'" the giments, and officer them altogether, or in parts f i l e youth of the country, and to defray the entire egiti;oo 9 , Lord HOWICK expl a i ne d, t h at t h e f ormer Act our right to vote away the money of the Canadian* this Act was silent on the subk.ct. of his Mr. TWISS said, that according to the Pla n 4 1, Right Hon. Friend, when the Canadians made an ass priation, the Act of which th e y com pl a i ne d was t° to it was only until that period that the old regulation remain in force. The resolution was th en agree d to , an d the or ° I ordered to be received on Monday. A TO I • COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY.—ARMY EST I3I- i Mr. C. W. WYNN move d t h at t h e H ous e res°lv into a Committee of Stipple. o On the question that th e Sp ea k er l eave the Ch a e g 5 Mr. HUME rose.—Aft e r hi s ex p ec t a tions bad 17e- g s ll wound up, he was sorry t o b e o bli ge d t o use the 11° ,, e d of complaint and disapp o i n t men t a t th e cou rse the Government. Til e pr esen t Mi n i s t e rs had talc i 7f o rP on three pledges, —economy, non-i n t e r ven tion, an d / ,'" e forO n Whatever might be th e i r course w ith res pect t° co c 01 ': with regard to economy an d n o n -i n t erve ntion, t" e ";,, duet had greatly disappointed him, when the I I Io t he 4 called upon to vote the military estimates before it' I , to; preceding year our est a bli s h ment h a d b ee n keP t :pong, considerable extent, a n d he undertook to saws thatw;:e, th the mass of the community, the general opinion, "r : i", , t our military es t a bli s h ment was too l arge , and .. ° o o‘ r ' o - f to ask the members of his Majesty's Governive nt l il e o • ac e co c u o n u t . t t r l 3 7 by ha t ( h l t in e c s r t zs a ed testil,iiei t the a a b i l y the. The la nistrati on h a d ma d e a re d uct i on i n the establishneiehild 300,0001., a wl f rom th e present G over nmen t t ber s : right to expect th a t th e y wou ld h ave b roug ht d ° " 7 ; timates bel o w th e amount o f l ast year. After v3l'ie t 1 v tuations, the a rm y h a d sett l e d d own l as t Yea r - e men ; and th e H ouse was now ca ll e d upon to V ° .] , t i ss ; men. And w h ere was t h e necess i ty f or t his? ilb s ben ° „. in a st a t e o f per f ect peace.— (L ou d l aug ht e r.) " ro clar l Y —(A laugh.) Ile admitted that there had been „b) jt° tions enou g h, b u t th ere h a d b een no war .----( A !f t ; r t bo Ireland, i n d ee d, was to b e k ept as a m ili tar y . g arrri ce 01; be retained by f orce o f aims, t h en t h e w hole t b a t country would not be sufficient. But he contendeu quiet. , , land wa s i n a .s t a t e o f peace. Scotlan d , to o, ' 18 %00: (A laugh.) Il e wou ld te ll t h e N o bl e Lor d k c0 00lP ) i that whil e h e an d hi s co ll eagues were profeesi n g:4l and putting d o wn one or two c i v il o ffi ce s, it - c Li s tah l ' no avail if th e y k e pt up t h e present nailitarY d tbe pa wont. It was only by reducing the aunt an