The Sun. — London, England, 1833-04-25 00:00:00

P44 r, there was an awkward allusion to Tur. h (Hear, be ar) --where th e H on M em b er sa id t h a t garoe so far in changes of the currency as to de it from So. to 3d., and certainly that was horribly hut he 'ltd not say that afterwards they went k and wotked up main from Si. to So. —( Hear, hear.) ray such attempt was made, he believed that the Mi 'fees bead a le would soo n h e the only offering that would ?p -meef,..P°Ple• st an d ard, } been told that, if any alteration bread l i n the the capital of the country would won, search of it ; but no one knew where the the kat fr 'H he f oun d . The search, indeed, woul db e a d e ttle's. to Like C ce ' e b s i n search of a wife, would b e tact,,p. riearchin g f or this invaluible standard, which. t , eek "'" . ot exist i n any other country. The standard, itnirp r Przu ' n ed, was to be found here alone, and the great fit w ere a few wealthy theorists. But when r naldl e k l asses had been exhausted of tin it last far had bee PP ,"P ep this standard, and when the laboure rs . arott,i'lee'fained in the same manner, the few naillionartes l 'aula to , rounded by a crowd of starving people, w ho to 'sten to the schemes of these theorists, nor the psir ° meats that no distress existed. The ambunt of °f • ttt ° e ' d - . 4t '"ii was alleged by these persons as the cauae I) ,,, ° *er.t on 've . He denied it. They had heard of the fli t po but that had not been applied to population. a,:Lkorn was said to have added to the wealth o f °e-tltriYi There was a time when all the popula -44 to " the means of labour. That w as n 't•il ' c' of w; and now those theorists who talked about toe you ra You must go and rye, a lon said to them, " W st (Ile a' ' , j ou ' i n Your native land, are superabundant. He was sorry to see how this question Ni th `. If they asked for a g eneral inquiry, they were ° t ie Pali t t i tha i t was too large ;if th e y asked for an inquiry on e i.: * Y11 1 : 11 ar point, they were told that that was pre paint which the must not consider.—(Hear; talltd 'hear, It I " if, in a case o 1 , • was )test as s t rang e as l ' h els o t t ,. 4 ' toe Coroner should tell the Jury that there w err -ut thrt t sePieions attached to a particular individu i a t , WNki ra ng not enter into any examination t 14 4 er 's to throw the slightest doubt upon his clia jklit; to "P` - 'se him to danger. any• . He bad no o . b• p ieta bu • 4" tab s , h e a fair inquiry into the causes of the (115- thus gave his support to the motion, an d . is itqe. lied '" House would not put ' aside the demand tor 44tteat7... had supported the lat elyGovernment w. tar t' not Which he painfully felt was severe, but b e i es h . Y '" f ll °t ths guise from himself was absolutely ne 41141uatiakti wit ) ''gad with the sam e honesty and deter ti" 's k! vh lch he had given h is vote the n, . should his vote n Ow• In both cases his object was t he l}°", went of the i; bli • good. He hoped that . t he . ttu ' i ° W4l4 l, n't ir • nor put aside this 41citi°41'hie- ' be assured 'etinah''n inqu iry, to be not a k.iati, to apoliatio c t on e fi m s ' cation and robbery , . but l a , w t :th 411:1tacertain whether they could not, crm f sis t t o en t t h y e I Zitt g 0. ° 6 " 1 and good faith, afford som i e r re ) lie Nlnt • W 41 1) „, e of this country.—(Hear, 4) , 'ER was glad to observe t.a e e a. dec ided and L l s i cf ai l ; er in which Ministers had res i ste d the m ble Hou se • H e begged also to congratu late . c' f tte itta' ..„,,4,(1c• Baronet, who closed the last night's r ' . ; the nia u nanswerale vindication of the wisdom is '44lth'eaLeure of 1 819, against the unfounded attack s itt ro( l e a that measur e had lately been assailed ; thoug h , 11 : %'1 , 1e t'o , Neti ,, n c was sanctioned by repeated prospective 1c41,-'a: parliament and had the approbation o ash:4'l'itt ti the highest ' character. He perfectly con• isNet. esentiments expressed by the Right H on. thattl if those sentiments were erroneous, w hic h th ey believe the wre, it roust at least be recollecte d Y‘ til atl e • Y Who enter tained Y them held them in common brit lale° as , Mr. Pitt, and Lord Gren l'hese Mr ' lox he ld by the vast ma h4,,, ~ sentiments, too, were 4,,,u!ti of tee ' intelligent part of the commun ity, who C t Wh o k'neasure of 1819 with the greatest sa to w as persu a d e d wou ld h e as muc h grieved, a 1 O rs 'ari .. nced they wou ld b e i n j ure d, by an y at te mpt as ti -4 ,ka tt its provisi ons . H e d en i e d that shoals u t r e h e like thos e o f 1825 w e re a t tr i butable of t te fc to cash payments,—for, if the present ts,,,.“ro t/c r e currency had caused these . occure t nce r s_, have caused them, not for a time, au pe f hap ti l ,', s nd if the . return to cash payments had e elePressions of price attributed to must .d itlik • prices of all commodities, an th. a „ so n th e . ycat,ccral and universal depression .0o ofprices. But s td e tpe 8 °f 1825 were temporary in their durat ion, cp, d ejVas . tf ' common much less of ciintinual Pric ea of c , ommodities were not universa Por instance, the price of cotton was ,4,,eoainee the return ' to cash payments—but what w as ittit,e?Wit.ntn regard to the chief - article of consumption ;01l'terh o he average price of wheat far the five y ears .rs a ti , 1825 was 575. a quarter; in the fi ve a \s it g it was 62s • and in 1830 it was 645. yea rs tt l , l e t tii . t 4 t ' il that all a rticles . of British manufacture had h had he general market, and would have fallen, Ahiacth '4 "" our currency, from the competency w t t , e ,„ te latsl tt t , e hice the war, and to which they la id not been F it t ' To that cause, and to the improve -4rnlfottrehinsry, were to be ascribed all that the Hon. to os t t 'atl ut . W hitehaven had attributed the currency. 1 0 t 'ts .t°e, the Hon. Member called upon the House to tte4 le sh eet ' ''' with the currency unless they desired to dish edistress tha t prevailed a thousand-fold, and t:t ' p f ro r ,,the gain o f a few, the bubble schemes and tVithi'lla jets which disgrace d ' the year 1825. ' l st BURRELL said th a t he an d . those uel4lteacted, in reference to this quest ion, did 114 's tiln g beyond a currency convertible i nto cotitithell hoped it was scarcely necessary for him to as 'iltr;el's4'•toe' that no project so inexpedient and so unjust 1,4 y 444 the late q t 4 icy elvered their minds, as a chance i n . the t +iplP l atl of " extent which some gentlemen imagined. eer_ Sir Robert Peel was one which it t l ki be :ueh to recommend it, and in his judgment d ' , id co s -411 Preferabl e to any that had been propounde d lt %%th r o e '. °I . that discussion. Tie plan was,. that op a. a t llb :'•Y to o wested 20 0001. in the Fonda, might be at ' l4 lkt lt 'eMic notes to that amount, provided the Go that °e t t e :e u re to be made entitled to hold that . 20,0001. . Its Wash ] I lty for the payment of the notes in specie ; Riv • mu ch more ex u„ a medium of circulation ul, and infinitely cheaper, than the present ii4 o - e ir ren eY. The present amount in circulation e ta., ' "ati s l i th an between eighteen and twenty mil- I ls" 4411 Y • fl 'e lt was maintained at a cost of . 1,400,0001. s t et csa L,7,';d let it be remembered that that sum was 80 ilh4tanition to the annual burdens of the country. f A s m of the boo &jai ffects resulting ru 14 4 0 : 1, 4 , r itro ; iasue of paper, he referred to the case of Whose name many of the States of Europe r tl io tthi 'a th e 'here the silver rouble was not a legal . temlc 1 4 , 6 it ~Pl P er rouble was. He therefore felt that, htlar k ,, —i ght be in the highest degree unfair and unwise C ao t h,c currency by too extensive en issue of paper, t t4. l ta:,, ' ; e c ased upon security such as would satisfy ca't•yetst„et C ommissioneis, and a paper currency at all ) 4 4 te 'ry ijiet,'ible into gold, would be a great boon to the qt ae , Preseat depressed condition. ' , RISON said, that when he witnessed such ' L ad already been produced by tamper ing with the It:i tt gs:i t u t e could but regard any project for a urthe . r t tt 'i4ti t , the Utmost alarm. Were they to proceed in ta t ut att s g. , o o the subject of the currency according to the '4, ation of the Hon. Member for Whitehaven, it '''l'a ° l , ot ac to this—that before many months would pass tOos k t lla panic must take place as that of 1825 ; and cs'„Jota," l 'lc the House, did they suppose that the coon the it' h 'ar such an occurrence twice? Could any 4 t " ti 's Se it more than once ? The public . felt that l o , 111 w 0 , 41 ) come when they must la ave something fixed, th 4 C, e ,4 t . 41 ~s h e one of the first duties of a reformed Par etite,t,'4l:v4„'"rd their constituents the fullest assurance . 144'444'114 disturb esisting contracts. Of this_ a b e e_ t herel tb 4 '' t the slightest doubt—that if the manor il eas distant idea that 116 . '4 a entertaved the most of value fe tia 'l }' e ° Y Project for altering the standard press 0 • a'd iet"tain d b that House, they would Pli, WithH ar ) It was his tvels, thitPetations innumerable.-- ( e • Fattest as . the circulation, so far from being scanty, to el an at Yth 'l'g, too bundan;,'as the state of the mon ey th e pr, a or te , b.. in moment proved. The Bank of a ut Che at" notes r 1 in many instances doin g . all in its power 4 4. al fet e MtO circulation ; but as fast as they went to °a • s • • h f m of deposits. .1 the hate r eam in te or e e "); whom the present motion was submitted taloa t 4, lan, ' tied to say that his chief object was the Plat,ittleverinterest• but a relief to that c las s v alis e• ethsts,ei,'ffected in the ' manner which he contem thsf eta oh ; t hat' by a depreciation of the standard i n n , tr Y, a u l e in the currency was not sougiat for ty er n t t •• anY alteration of it was decidedly unpo et I n P ak a s 4 t s h:l•,) The effect of the alteration con °, th e ntle por ts ion. Member for Whatehaven would be Na o - , ° the r . T na of the community gain at the expense t fi lted f 'le did not ob . .t to one proposition that vB lo:Nile rs te rlt th e Hon. Me j n e i t ber for Essex ; he alluded lie u. ) Was s aiv n e dard of silver and gold, provided the same t hat The i t e ° the form e r as to the latter.--(Qi . leas P ro per :4. Gentleman concluded with saying , tbreductionu - „, (4. all useless places and pensions, a l ab our e T akin g the expenditure of the Government, t he e th e na;'aY all unnecessary o b s t ruc tions from „Pantry. 'Ply way to confer a permanent good on J.WIIOT,„ sn. `, Uet,islitleth lEe d h. • root d loud SLEY cries of °' Que „ na rend er e -4 inaudible for severa l m inutes. If din not feel i ncl i ned I" to give him a rear- ing, they might depend upon it they should not hear any body else. It was his decided opinion that the present motion was substantially to inquire into the distress of the country ; and that distress existed, might he gathered from what had fallen from the last speak-r, and from several returns that had been laid upon the table of that guise. He maintained that the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (the Vice-President of the Board of Trade) had not given, the other evening, fair statements as to the distress of the manufacturing districts; and, if he was called upon, he could give proofs that distress to a lade amount did pre vail-in those tii•tricts. AR a proof that he could do so, he would instance the state ,:f Wolverhampton, which was very d:ff-rent from t'' at in which it had b-en said by the Right Hnn. G mtleman other I,arge manuft.cturing towns were. The condition of the al.re-awntioned towts !night be zuesQed at if the increase of the pan- rates were considered, and they had since 1524—that is, in the space of nine years—doubled. The increase of tolls on the old Birmingham Canal, which had been given by the Right Honourable Vice-President of the Board of Trade as a proof of the prosperity of the trade of that part of t!'e country, was fallacious ; for it should he recollected, that the cause of the increase of tolls might more pro perly he attributed to the improvements made on that canal, at the expense of half a million laid out upon it to facilitate transports. He could cite other instances of canals in manufacturing districts upon which the tolls had decreased, to show tit disiress existed, and that ma nufacturing property had deteriorated. Even in that fa vourite county, Staffordshire, it was difficult to find pur chasers of this species of property. When such was the fact, and when distress really existed, was it extraordinary that ti e people should call out, and ask for an inquiry as . . to the eau%e; of it ? There had been a great deal f cross language used towards gentlemen who were supposed to he desirous of a change of the currency ; but itshnuld be remembered that alterations in the currency had often oc- curred, and had been found useful in caws Of great neces- s,ty. The standard was always dependent upon expediency. The Hon. Member then proceeded to read several tables, showing the fluctuations in the currency, and demonstrated that throughout the various alterations of the currency for the better or worse, it had always occurred that the Go vernment had produced a favourable alteration just before each dissolution, so as to please the people at a time when new representatives were to be chosen. A Hong other similar instances, the Honourable Member stated that in 1816 and 1817 there had existed the greatest distress, owinz to the unfavourable state of the circula tion; but in 1818, just before Parliament was dissolved, Government had contrived to produce an additional issue of three millions of bank notes, which was of course in- tended as a bolstering up of a fictitious state of prosperity. This fully appeared by the fact, that after the Parliament had been returned, Government brought the circulation down again, and in 1522 the circulation was brought down so low that the whole country combined in sending up petitions for relief from their distresses. The agricul tural and manufacturing interests bad been dreadful sufferers from the system pursued by the Bank; and it must be inevitably so ; for as long as a gold circulation is adhered to, all our interests must be subject to all the fluctuations of every country in Europe. What he wished, therefore, was to contract this circulation, in order to avoid such fatal fluctuations and arrangements of the circulation. He was therefore very anxious for the ap pointment of the proposed Committee; and what he par ticul .rly wished that Committee to inquire into would he the question whether there could not be such an adjust ment of the one-pound note circulation as to prevent the gold from going out of the country. As it was, the farmer was called upon to pay two quarters of corn for the one which he bad formerly received. He would readily vote for the Committee; and he fully concurred with the pro position, that all the evils and distresses of the country were wholly attributable to the Change of Currency Bill of 1519.—(Great confusion, cries of " Question," " Ad journ.") At any rate there were quite sufficient grounds to warrant an inquiry; and a practical inquiry would be better than all tie theories put together. Mr. JOHN SMITH was rather surprised at many of the arguments he had heard. The Hon. Baronet had spoken of the fall of profits of canals as a criterion of dis tress; but the public funds betrayed no symptom of that disease. Had the Three per Cents. fallen ? They were as marketable as ever; and many people desired to have them. Without meaning to throw any imputations on any Hon. Members, he must say that lie doubted many of the stories of distress which had liven told the House. He had heard, on what he was told was good authority, though he did not know the gentleman, that all the population of Manchester engaged in the spinning business got, including men, women, and children, 10s. a week wages. He was not particularly acquainted with Oldham, but be believed that the poor rates in that district were remarkably low. What he, however, chiefly rose to say was this :—He was as sure, as that the sun would rise to-morrow, that if the issue of small notes was allowed there would be again a panic. He was, in 1825, Chairman of the Committee of Bankers, and in that capacity had frequently to wait upon the Bank of England with persons soliciting relief, and he had a good opportunity of knowing the circumstances of many persons ; and Ire could assure the House that many honest and industrious men, who had then been obliaed to make great sacrifices, had struggled on for years after wards, but were in the end ruined in consequence of the shock they then received. He knew certainly that the one pound notes then found were of great use; but the Bank did not want them for itself, it could have paid all demands on it without them, but they were of use to lend to others. He knew that the Bank of England tlien lent reilliens, and that many of those who borrowsd notes car ried them to the Bank in half an hour and demanded specie for them. Another panic, not less than that of 1625, must ensue from issuing small notes. It the Bank of England were to suspend its payments, all the bankers of England would be ruined ; and what then would be the state of tho country? All the manufacturers were paid in the notes of the country hankers, and if they were ruined, he put it to the House if society could eo on ? No; there would be one scene of devastation, misery, and civil war. He admitted the honesty ef the intentions of those who supported the motion, but he, fur one, protest, d against it; and he trusted the House would not forget its sacred duty, and would preserve the prosperity, the inte rest, the honour, and the integrity of the country.— (Cheers. ) Mr. M. ATTWOOD rose to reply. He had been charged with desiring depreciation; he denied it, and those who made that charge had no authority, from his words, for making it. He had reason, aherefore, to complain that the whole arguments of the Noble Lord (Althorp) and other speakers, had all been di • rested against his speech, and against the motion on that inference. The Honourable Member then ex plained the nature of the motion and amendment, and warned the House that there would be no incon sistency in voting for his motion, though Members might desire not to lower the standard. The resolution of the Noble Lord went to pledge the House not to lower the standard. But why ? The standard had been suc cessively raised for several years. It had been raised be yond the old standard of 1795. It had been raised, as the Hon. Member for Essex admitted, more than 50 per cent. above that of 1815 ; and it would have been desi rable, therefore, that the Noble Lord should have c Aled on the House to pledge itself that it would not raise t , e standard any further ; so that the people might have had some guarantee against a further rise, and might have been no longer the victims of such legislation. The Noble Lord had admitted, in his speech, that he would not object to silver coined into 60s. as a standard, but he would object to it coined into 625. ; but 60 was depreciation. The Noble Lord, therefore, who was so indignant about de preciation, and talked aboutdishonesty, had no objection to let the 100/. be written down 981. 103. ; but to write it down 951. was everything that was bad.—(Cheers.) Lord ALTIIORP explained that he had said he would only consent to silver as a standard so coined, if it were not depreciation ; and if it were depreciation, he would not consent to it. Mr. ATTWOOD accepted the Noble Lord's emenda• tion ; but he could assure !aim that silver at 603. would be depreciation ; and then it appeared, after the Noble Lord bad moved a resolution about depreciation, and talked a great deal about it, that the Noble Lord did not know what depreciation was.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member next refsrred to Mr. Baring's declaration, that he would not object to 1/. notes. Mr. BARING was understood to sly that he spoke hypothetic illy, and that if the two other conditions he bad mentioned were fulfilled, he should not then object to consider the propriety of issuing one-pound notes. Mr. ATTWOOD continued—The Hon. Member had in 1826 spoken in the strongest terms against small notes. In 1830 also, when he (Mr. Attwood) had moved two resolutions, cne of which related to the small notes, and the other to the silver standard, the Hon. Member had de nounced the small notes, and had agreed in the propriety of-the silver standard. Tne Hon. 'Member bad then ex pressly stated, that by adopting it they would have a better chance of maintaining the standard than by the gold siandatd only. And was he now to be condemnor for recommending that as tending to depreciation, which the Hon. Member said would maintain the standard ? By supporting his motion, Members would pledge themselves to no opinion ; but by adopting the amendment of the Noble Lord, they would pledge themselves to a line of con duct, which, if a war were to break out—an event so likely to happen that it Lwas stated as the excuse for keeping up - our large military establishments—must be departed from within six months after that event, With regard to the statement of the Right Honourable Me ber fir Tamwortb, that the hullion report had not appeAred until the year 18 18, and ill could consequently have no effect on the state of the counrry during the previous years, he would beg to remind the House that the bullion Committee had been sittinz for years previous to the appearance of the report, and that the country being in expectation of that report, it had a urea' ,ffect on the state of the country.--(ter, this period :IN !arr. Mernb. , r in the side gallery, who had frequently interrup',ed the ELin. Mem'ner for Whitehaven in his reply, by coughing in a peculi 4r mariner, main so repeate t the interruption that he was called to order from all sides of the House—an Hen. Member, at the same time, making the rather unusual proposal that he should be turned out.) With respect to the comparison drawn by the Right Hon. Vice President of the Bard of Trade between the rate of consumption of several exciseahle ar. tides. he (Mr. A.) thought the statem.nt made went rather to show a falling off than an improvement in the state of the country. The R ght Hon. Gentleman had chosen to draw a comparison betwe,,n the years 1814 and ]832, and had endeavoured to show that a erear rise in the consumption had taken place between those periods. _ _ He had said that in 1811 the consumption of tobacco was 15,273,000 lbs.; and in 1832, 20,235,000 lbs., which stioweil ~n inerea.e of 31 pet cent. ea the consumption, while the increase of the popul atoll was 24 per cent. This, however, arose from the iircumstance, that tobacco :ad been entirely excluded from the country during ;he years 1813-14, on account of the American war, anti sucn was the effect of the exclusion, alit the price had ri-en, in 1814, from 111. (the price in 1812) to is. 2d. Taking, hoxever, the average of the three years previous to that period, which were not affected by any such clause, it would be found that the consumption for Great Britain and Ireland was 20,691,000 Ibe. ; and while, in 1832, it was only 20,2'35,000 Iho. ; so that there was a falling off, notwithstanding the advance of population. Then with regard to tea. The Right Hon. Gentleman had stated that the consumption of tea in 1814 was 19 ; 224,000 lbs., and in 1832, 31,548,000 Ms., being an increase of S 3 per cent., while the increase of population had been only 21 per cent. But be (Mr. Attwond) begged _ . the House to remark, that he had taken, in 1814. the amount consumed in Great Britain only, while, in 1832, he h td taken the quantity consumed in tieUnited:Kingdoin of Great Britain and Ireland. It was derogatory to the Right Hon. Gentlema❑ to call upon the House to proceed to deliberate upon the important question before them on such iniorrnation as that—(Hear, hear)—and he would not take up the time of the House to refute it. He ad mitted, however, that there was some confusion in the returns, and thas it was not easy to separate the propor tions used in the two countries. BUt it would he found, from a comparison of the average consumption of tea, during the years 1800, 1801, 1802, anti 1803, with the year 1832, that the consumption of Great Britain and Ireland, during the former of those years, was 24,300,000 lbs., while, in 1832, it was 31,548,000 lbs., being an increase of less than 30 per cent., although the in crease in the population, in the sitne period, had con siderably exceeded 50 per cent.—(Hear.) The result, therefore, proved that there was a diminution of comfort among the people, instead of an increase, as the Right Hon. Gentleman bad wished to show. The Right Hon. Gentleman had also stated, and he had held it up as a matter of gratulation to the country, that the consumption of sugar had advanced 83 per cent. since 1814—the quantities being in 1814, 1,997,0001b5., and in 1832, 3,655,000 pounds. But the House should bear in mind, that in 1814 the European ports were first opened, after having been closed from the autumn of 1810, which occa sioned an unrsua ly large export in 1819, and enhanced the average price to the unprecedented sum of 1035.4 id. per cwt., while in 1832, the average price was only 48s. —a reduction which had led to the ruin of the West India interest. It appeared, however, that on an average of the six years previous to 1832, the increase had only been 20 per cent., while the advance in the population had been 24 per cent.—(Hear.) The House, at this p: rind, showing, strong symptoms of impatience, the Hon. Member said, that be would only add, that if the House did not agree to his motion, the people would consider that they were not done justice to, and the result might be a sepa ration between them.—( Hear, hear.) The gallery was then cleared for a division, where there appeared— For the omission of the words in Mr. Attwood's motion proposed by Lord Althorp to be left out Against the omission 139 Majority On our re-admission to the gallery we bound Lord ALTHORP addressing the House, in opposition to an aliendment proposed by Mr. Attwood, (luring our absence, that a clause should be added to the Noble Lord's amend- ment, for the appiintment of a Select Committee to in quire into the most effectual means to relieve the distresses of the country. Lord ALTHORP said, that the appointment of a Com mittee for the purpose mentioned by the Hon. Member rni4ht be a very proper subject for after discussion, if made separately from the subject then before the House. He would not enter into a discussion as to the propriety of the appointment of such a Committee, so generally worded, as em mating from that debate; but he certainly would of,ject to it as an addition to his amendment, inasmuch as he considered it of great importance that his amendment should stand substantially and unequivocally on a question of such importance as the depreciation of the curt ency.l The gallery was the❑ cleared for a division on this sub ject, out none took place. On our return— S,r F. BURDEN' was addressing the House. He said, that from all that had api,eared from the statements made by gentlemen best inform , d on the subject in the course of that debate, the distrt 94 did n , •t appear to be so great as people supposed.—(Cries of " No, no.") He should like to see the question discussed without mystery; and Le thought the Hon. Member for Whitehaven should m ike it the subject of a separate motion. To him it ap peared that there were two kinds of distress, quite uncon nected with each other—the one among the poor, and the other among the capitalists. The former did not appear great—the latter he admitted to be considerable. Sir R. PEEL thought that the question before them should be closed, and a separate motion made on the dis tress by the Hun. Member fiw Whitehaven. He hoped, however, that whatever was done, the House would not do anything to prejudge the case. He did not think that a sub . .) ct of such great importance should come before a Commi , tee. No authority, short of the authority of the whole House, should decide it.—(hear.) After a few words from Mr. HUME, Lord STORMONT suggested that the debate should be adjourned ; and, atter a few remarks, proposed the ad journment.---(Loud cries of " No, no.") Lord JOHN RUSSELL thought that they ought not to adjourn. Whether the Committee were appointed or not, be thought the Hon. Member for Whitehaven should make a distinct motion upon the subject. Mr. M. ATTWOOD had no des , gn in making his mo tion but what was implied directly by the words of it. He was therefore, desirous to try the sincerity of the de claration of Ministers; and he now asked whether a reformed Parliament was prepared to say that they would mike no inquiry whatever into the distress of the country? Mr. METHUEN made a few observations, which were not heard. Mr. R. PADIER oimrved, that the opinion of those Hon. Members was perfectly consistent who asserted that, in an inquiry into the distress which existed among the various classes of society, they might oath propriety go into an examination cf the monetary system, witr.out sup porting the particular views of the lion. Member for Whitehaven. Many Hon. Members had been put to con siderable difficulty, because the Noble Lord had brought forward, as an amendment, what tuey would readily have voted for as a substantive motion. An opportunity was now given them of voting for the substantive motion, and he would certainly vote for it. Lord EBRINGTON said he was very much surprised to hear the amendment proposed by the Jim). Member for Whitehaven, considering the observations he had made in his opening speech, when he had stated that any inquiry into the distress of the country which did not include an inquiry into the monetary system would be ao insult and a mockery.—(Loud c errs.) Mr. M. ATTWOOD observed that he was sorry that the Noble Lord hail only heard ore part of his speech, and not the other. He had always said that they possessed the means of alleviating the distress, to a certain extent, without any alteration of the standard of value. Mr. 0 CONNELL said the time was come when some thing ought to be done, for inquiring, at least, into the causes of the distress of the country; and if there existed any doubt on the subject of the dhtress in England, there could be none whatever respecting Ireland. The Noble Lord (Althorp)had wade I*, declaration against any depre ciation in the currency ; and there could no longer be any reason, a'ter that declaration, to refuse the inquiry pro posed by the Hon. Member far Whitehaven, whom be considered to have been very ill used. Would a reformed House continue to oppose inquiry, after everything had been done which was necessary for public credit? Mr. BEAUMONT appealed to the House for their in dulgence, on the ground that he had never occupied their time above fifteen minutes during the fourteen years that he had been a Member of that House. The observations of the Honourable and Learned Member fur Dublin deserved little attention, as the tone of them showed that, right or wrong, he was determined to oppose Go vernment. The Gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took place on that question. A division then took place on Mr. Attwood's Amend ment (to appoint a Select Committee) to Lord Althorp's Motion : For the Amendment . Against it 3lalority ll7 A third division ensued on Lord Althorp's motion : " That it is the opinion of this House, that any altera tion in the monetary system of the country which would have the effect of lowering the standard of value would be highly inexp , ilient end dangerous." For the Motion Against it Majority 255 The announcement of these last numbers was received with the loudest cheers. Adjourned at a quarter after three this morning. FROM THE VOTES AND PROCEEDINGS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. The following an account of the proceedings in the House of Commons last night : Di-tress and Currency,—Order read for resuming the adjourned debate on the amendment proposed to be made to the question (224 April), "That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into the state of general distress, difficulty, and embarrassment, which now presses on the various orders of the community; how far the same has been occasioned by the operation of our pre , ent monetary system; and to consider of the effects produced by that system upon the apiculture, manufacture, and commerce of the United Kingdom, and upon the condition of the in dustrious and productive classes ;" and which amend ment was to leave out from the first word " That" to the end of the question, in order to add the words " it is the opinion of this House that any alteration in the monetary system of the country which would have the effect of lowering the standard of value would be highly inexpe dient and dangerous," instead thereof:—Question again proposed, " That the words proposed to be left out stand part of the question :" Question put : the House divided—ayes 139, noes 331. Question proposed, " That the words it is the opinion of this House that any alteration in the monetary system of the country, whicla would have the effect of lowering the standard of value, would be highly inexpedient and dangerous,' be there added :" Amendment proposed to the said proposed amendment, to add thereto the words, " and that a Select Committee be appointed, which, hav ing regard to this opinion, shall inquire into the general dis tress existing among the industrious classes of the commu nity, and into the most effectual means of its relief." Ques tion proposed, " That those words be added to the said pro posed amendment." Debate arising; motion made, and question, " That the debate he adjourned till this day," put, and negatived. Question put, " That the words, and that a Select Committee be appointed, which, hav ing regard to this opinion, shall inquire into the general distress existing among the industrious classes of the COM munity, and into the most effectual means of its relief,' be added to the said proposed amendment." The House divided —ayes 154, noes 271 a. Question put, " That the words, it is the opinio❑ of this House, that any alteration in the monetary system of the country, which would have,the effect of lowering the standard of value, would be highly inexpedient and dangerous,' be added to the word That' in the original question." The House divided —ayes 304, noes 49. Mai❑ question, as amended, put, and agreed to. LIST OF OF FORT]-NINE, WITH TWO TEL] E MINORITY ,LERS, WHO VOTED FOR THE DE PRECIATION OF TIM Attwood, Thos.—Birmingham Barnard, E. J.—Greenwich Bell, M.—South Northumberld. Benett, J.—South Wiltshire Bentinck, Ld. G.—King's Lynn Blake, Sir F.—Berwick STANDARD OF VALVE. Lennox, Lord \V.—King's Lynn Maxwell, John—Lan?rkshire Methuen, P —North Wiltshire O'Cf.nnell, D.—Dublin City O'Connell, Mau rice—Tralee 0 Connell, Morgan—Meath O'Connell, John —Youghall O'Connell, Charles—Kerry Perceval, Colonel—Sligo Co. Richards, J.—Knaresborough Roc, James—Cashel Ross, H.—Montrose, &c. Ruthven, Eel—Kildare Blandtord, Marquis of—Wood- stock Brodie, W. B.—New Sarum Burdett, Sir F.—Westminster Cayley, Sir G.—Scarborough Cayley, E S.—North Yorkshire Chapman, M.—Westmeath Cur , eis, 11. B.—East Sussex Dare, R. W. ll.—South Essex Dillwyn ' L. W.—Glarnorgansh. Etwall, R.—Andover Fitzgerald, Thomas—Louth Fitzsimon, C.—Dublin Co. Godson, R.—Kidderminster Goring, 11. D.—New Shoreham Irton, Kerrison, Sir E.—Eye Lalor, Patrick—Queen's Co. Lambert, H.—Wexford Co. Langdale, lion. C.—Beverley Seholefield, J.—Birmingham Stanley, E.—West Cumberland Stanley, E. J.—North Cheshire Stewart, John—Lymington Talbot, J. H.—New Roes Tennyson, Right Hon. C.— Lambeth ITynte, C. J. K.—W. Somerset IVigors, N. A.—Carlow Walker, C. A.—Wexford 857 i 53,754 17 9 374,0&4 15 7 TELLERS. Attwood, AL—Whitehaven Sinclair, G.—Caithness-shire The issuing of the Hertford writs has been further postponed—.namely, till May 2. GALWAY ELECTION COMMITTEE.—The following are the names of the reduced list:—R. N. Shawe, Esq., P. H. Howard, Esq., J. Neeld, Esq., H. W. Tancred, Esq., R. Ingham, Esq., R. Godson, Esq., J. Grattan, Esq T. H. Davies, Esq., Lord Stormont, Lard C. J. Fox Russell, J. Martin, Esq. (Tewksbury.) LETTERS PATENT BILL COMMITTEE. —Mr. Leonard, Mr. Poulett Thomson, Mr. Attorney-General, Mr. Soli citor-General, Mr. Godson, Lord Lumley, Lord Viscount Oxmaatown, Lord Viscount Duncannon, Lord Viscount Howick, Mr. Robert Grant, Mr. Hume, Mr. Warburton, Mr. Roebuck, Mr. Hill, Mr. Jervis, Mr. Rotch, Mr. Aglionby. Mr. Pollock, the Lord Advocate, Mr. George Vernon, Mr. Handley, Mr. William Gladstone (Newark), Mr. Heathcote (Tiverton), Mr. Strutt, General Fergu son, Mr. Robert Ferguson, Mr. Edward Romilly, Mr, Hughes Hughes, Mr. Pease, Mr. Maui ice O'Connell, Mr. Lynch, Mr. Cornelius O'Brien, Mr. William Roche, Mr. P'oillpotts, Sir Gorge Cayley, Mr. Briggs, Mr. Lloyd, Mr. Hyett, Mr. Brotherton, Mr. Strickland. Five to be the quorum. HIGHWAYS BILL COMMUTE E. —Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Mr. Nicolson Calvert, Mr. Buller, Mr. Bonham Carter, Sir John Wrottesley, Mr. Robert Clive, Mr. Shirley, Mr. Benett, Mr. Loch, Sir Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Ayshford Sandford, Lord Viscount Morpeth, Mr. Hodges, Sir Os swalcl Mosley, Sir Eardley Wilmot, Mr. Tooke, Lord Viscount Ebrington, Mr. Stanley (Cumberland), Mr. William Bankes, Lord Granville Somerset, Lord Robert Grosvenor, Sir Charles Lemon, Mr. Godson, Mr. Potter, Lord Viscount Lowther, Mr. Wilson Patten, Mr. Curteis, Mr. Bulteel, Lord Henniker, Mr. Gore Langton. Five to be the quorum. METROPOLITAN POLlCE.—Select Committee " to in , quire into the state of the Police of the Metropolis out of the Metropolitan Districts, and the state of crime therein." Mr. Esteourt, Mr. Lamb, Lord Viscount Lowther, Sir Robert Inglis, Sir Thomas Fremantle, Mr. Nicolson Cal vert, Mr. Byng, Mr. Denison (Surrey), Mr. Robert Gor don, Colonel Wood, Mr. Alderman Wood, Mr. Charles Ross, Sir Robert Peel, Sir Henry Hardinge, Mr. William Brougham, Lord Hotham, Lord George Lennox, Mr. Bonham Cuter, Mr. Shaw Lefevre, Colonel Davies, Lord Fordwich, Mr. Hall Dare, Sir Edward Knatchbull, Mr. Hawes, Mr. Sergeant Spankie, Mr. Attorney- General, Mr. Clay, Captain pandas, Lord Viscount Howick, Mr. Hume, Lord Villiers, Lord Granville Somerset. Power to send for persons, papers, and records. Five to be the quorum. PARLIAMENTARY PAPER. THE ARMY. Abstract of a Return of Commissions in the Army which have been purchased, and the pay cancelled, up to the Ist of April, 1833. I Annual Amount Amount of Number' of Purchase Money Ranks, o f each' Half-pay, &c., paid for Rank, 1 cancelled. each Rank. —.--------- Major... ................ 1 1 z£2.00 0 0 .£1,200 0 0 Capto:os . ............. ... 18 '2,357 10 0 16,873 6 8 Captain-Lieutenant 1 54 15 0 330 0 0 Lieutenants .......... 378 27,177 7 6 189,273 8 0 Second Lieutenants 10 ML 0 0 3,400 0 0 Ensigns .58 13,429 19 0 88,5 98 11 4 Comets .. ............ 2:l 1,703 6 8 10,730 0 0 Adjutants 8 565 15 0 3,000 0 0 paymasters l4 1,73315 0 12,020 0 0 Quartermaster s Chaplain Assistant Dep Pay master General 1 136 17 6 1,100 0 0 Del , Judge Advocate 1 365 0 0 1,600 0 0 physician Staff' Surgeons 8 1,022 0 0 4,710 0 0 Surgeons Assistant Surgeons B2 5,830 17 6 2,211 11 8 A path eca • les Hospital Assist , nts ll 401 10 0 1,155 16 8 Veterinary Surgeon 1 100 7 6 678 0 0 Total ~ The average age of the sellers has been 38i }ears; the average annuity 681. 119. 2d. ; the value of which, ac cording to the Go , ernment tables, is, at the present price of the funds, 1,1301. 10s, The average commuted sum given to each officer has been 4361. 9s. 7,1. The difference, 6941. 03. .51, is the average profit to the public from the measure on each commission purchased. War-office, April 16. EDWARD ELLICE. Lord PETRE, on Tuesday, in the House of Lords, took the oath prescribed, by the 10th Geo. IV., to be taken by Peers prof ess i ng t h e R oman C a tholic religion. SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. After a protracted discussion of three nights, :he currency question has at last been decided in ;he only way consistent wi.h common sense and common honesty—namely, by the rejection of the original motion, and the adoption of Lord Al thorp's resolution. We regard this decision, taken in connexion with the immense majority by which it was carried, and the signal defeat which it gives to the currency revolutionists, as one of the most important occurrences which has ever taken place in a legislative assembly, and hail it as the Most secure pledge of confidence in a reformed Parliament. By it the honour of the country, and the faith of the Government, have been sustained inviolate. By it property has been protected against fraudulent transfers through the medium of a legislative juggle. By it the obligation of existing contracts has been guaranteed, and the unsuspecting creditor se cured against being plundered for the benefit of his dishonest debtor. By it the activity of in dustry will be prninoted, from the certainty which it affords of reaping the undiminished fruits of its exertions, and of enjoying the full benefit of its accumulations. By it the national creditor is relieved from the fear of confiscation, the industrious labourer from the danger of exchang ing his scanty wages for high-priced commo dities ; and all classes of the community from arbitrary and capricious changes of their fortunes or income at the discretion of the irresponsible demon of the banking system, whose operations are as mysterious as " the pestilence that walketh in► darkness," and as irresistible as a convulsion of nature. By it we are enabled to live under the dominion of the common law, which entitles us to the King's coin in satisfaction of our lawful pecuniary claims, and which erects a barrier against the usurpation of the King's prerogative by the pickpockets and swindlers whose gains depend upon the debasement of the standard. The Conservatives last year endeavoured to alarm the nation against reform by predictions of its disorganizing consequences ; the reformed House of Commons has answered the prophetic calumny by recording a triumphant vote against the im posters of paper currency, and the enemies of national integrity. The first night's debate was quite sufficient to settle the question in the opi nion of the House, and to quiet the apprehen sions of the country. The obvious inconsistency between propositions to increase the quantity of the currency without depreciating its value—the utter contradiction between professions of regard _ _ for national faith and projects for debasing the na tional currency,—the affectation of a power to effect equitable adjustment by schemes of almost unveiled plunder, struck every member who could understand the meaning of words, or who had devoted the slightest attention to financial topics. The clear and direct reasoning of Lord Althorp, and the more elaborate, though not more convincing, arguments and statements of Mr. Poulett Thomson, set the matter at rest ; and had a vote been called for on Monday night, the House would have de cided exactly as it has done after twelve or fifteen hours of further speaking. On Tuesday night the Hon. Mover seemed desirous to shift his ground and to abandon the currency part of his motion, in order to obtain a Committee on the assumed " distress," which before he had ascribed exclusively to the currency. The speech of Sir Robert Peel ought alone to have pro cured the rejection of the original motion. We ' have no space to describe the proceedings of last night,when some excellent speeches were delivered on the side of national honour and public faith. Thecurrency people have made so poor a figure in the whole of this discussion that our pity must protect theta from any expression of displeasure of indignation. It might appear like " slaying the slain" to attack the arguments or to demolish the reasoning of the Hon. Mover, or his friends, who must by this time feel the most poignant regret at having renewed a discussion on which they have met with such a signal discomfiture. We cannot, however, refrain from making a few remarks. On looking at our report, we find that the Hon. Member for Whitehaven traversed all the great interests of the country—agricul tural, shipping, manufacturing, and mercantile, and found them all labouring under distress. Ie assumed that there was no distress ti 1819 ; he forgot the numerous failures of banks which had occurred before we had a bank re striction, or during the palmy days of that bene ficent act, and he ascribed the whole mischief to Peel's Bill. If the value of land had been lowered,—if the property of the landlord had been, according to him, threatened with confis cation,—or if the farmer was obliged to pay his rent out of his capital, instead of his profits,— the whole of the evil was owing to Peel's Bill. If he looked at the report of the commis sioners for inquiring into the operation of the poor laws, and found agricultural pro perty diminishing, he there again fbund Peel's Bill. But this Bill was not in existence till long after the enormous pressure of mal-admi nistered relief to the poor and been experienced. That was a matter of no consequence ; Peel's Bill was capable of bearing the whole charge. But the same Act, whose operation was general, could not be the cause of suffering in one part of the country, while in another it secured com fort ; it could not increase pauperism in Sussex, while it only extended relief to the poor of Cumberland. That was no obstacle to the Hon. Member's conclusion; Peel's Bill, ac cording to his style of reasoning, had only chosen to take this capricious and partial mode of displaying its effects. In crossing the Chan nel to Ireland, he found that the IVhitefeet and the Terry Alts—the volunteer associations, and the repeal agitators—were all the monstrous brood of the same Bill, though their au thentic ancestry might be traced back to the time of the Plantagenets. Nay, what is more, in going to France he likewise found distress ; and if he could have found a paper currency, or a change in the circu lation, would, of course, have ascribed it to Peel's Bill. Our shipping, our manufactures, our commerce, were all suffering from the same cause. Now, it is easy to say, and probably easy to prove, that the restoration of our standard in 1819 occasioned a greater change in the value of our currency than was at the time contemplated by the Legislature—that it lowered the prices of commodities, and increased the pressure of taxes to a greater extent than was anticipated ; but what is the remedy ? Not, surely, to recommence the same course of mo netary revolution. We have had 14 years of our restored standard. By the ostentatious statements of the currency politicians them selves, prices have fallen to an extent that has rd uin they o tiproposeer of debtors order been ruinous to one cla s s o f t h e commun i t y ; w to ou ru l l was confiscated formerly, are creditors to be plundered now—the parties at the two periods not being identical—so as to make the plunder of the latter compensate for the confiscation of the former ? It is change...on what• ever side—that constitutes the monstrous mis chief of a monetary revolution, and the depre ciation now proposed is so much more alarming an evil than that occasioned by the act of 1819, that its extent may be greater as it is indefinite, —that its operation would lead to more rapid and certain confusion,—and that it could not be justified by any reference to former pledges or engagements. In the whole period of the re striction acts, from 1797 to 1819, we never lost sight of our standard of value,—we always pro posed to return to it; and if we committed errors, we never at least resolved to perpetrate dishonesty, or to justify fraud. But we are told that in 1824 and 1825 we obtained pros perity by a relaxation of our monetary system, without robbing public or private creditors. It evinces no small effrontery to exhibit the policy of that period as an example to be imitated in stead of one to be avoided. When 1824 is men tioned as a year of commercial activity and hap piness, can the panic of 1825, by which it was followed, be forgotten? Such a season of facti tious prosperity might be silently restored again, with the certainty of a similar termination, but not through a project like that proposed by the Hon. Member for Whitehaven, which, by alarm ing all the holders of property, would immedi ately interrupt all business, and lead to inde .. sciiiable confusion. The spirit of speculation could not even be excited in such circumstances of undisguised iniquity ; the intoxicating draught would be rejected from a knowledge of its deleterious nature, and the country would be subjected to all the evils of bankruptcy and ex haustion, without having passed, as in 1825, through the previous stages of extravagance and overtrading. We had intended to have pointed out many other absurdities in the reasoning of the currency leader ; such as his apprehension, that on the present system the Bank might be called upon some fine morning to pay the whole 800,000,0001. of the national debt in gold ; but we have left ourselves no room.—Times. The Tory benches in the House of Com mons exhibited a curious appearance last night. Sir Robert Peel, with his consistent ally Mr. Alexander Baring, respondere parati, although, certainly, not cantare pares, with a squad of the old adherents and desperate expectants of the party, voted against Mr. Attwood. Lord Chandos, Lord Stormont, Sir E. Knatchbull, Sir R. Vyvyan, and most of the more inde pendent and respectable, although less instructed and penetrable Members of the body, voted for the motion. Mr. Goulburn and Mr. Her ries, who might have bee n e xp ec t e d t o t a k e a part in such a discussion, found it convenient to be absent. There is just so much consoL. tion in all this, that even if Mr. Baring could reconcile his currency differences with Sir R. Peel, and both could agree upon some method of establishing a f‘ patent" and secure circula tion, which should at the same time double the quantity of money, and not affect prices and contracts, there is little danger of such dis cordant materials being brought together so as to enable them to act in concert on public affairs, either in or out of office. The fact is, the party is utterly destroyed and scattered to the winds, and we congratulate the country upon this ad ditional proof of its deliverance from them. At the same time we are not regardless of the manly stand which Sir Robert has made on this occa- sion in support of right principles. The merited chastisement which he inflicted upon Mr. Baring, has gratified the public, and Sir Robert cannot have failed to remark the cordial reception which it procured for him on his health being given last night at the Mansion-house. Mr. Alexander Baring did not hesitate to de scribe his friend, Mr. M. Attwood, as one, who (to use a Scotch phrase) " has a bee in his bonnet." But there is at all events method in the madness of the Hon. Member for White haven. He thinks depreciation would be pro ductive of great benefit to the country. Depre dation, or rather the phenomena included under depreciation (for the Hon. Gentleman shys a little at the word) are with him all in all. But Mr. Alexander Baring hates all tampering with coinage. He considers a departure from the standard neither more nor less than robbery. " It had been said (exclaimed the Hon. Member for Essex) by all the supporters of the motion, that an intense pressure, weighing down the energies of the nation—that every interest from one end to the other of the country was labouring-, but labouring in vain, to rid itself from the overpowering burdens by which it was almost crushed into the earth. Now, in his judgment, if that pressure did exist to the extent affirmed, he should be glad to see it made out, how it could happen that such a pressure should at all justify the proposed de parture from the present standard of value." Here spoke another Daniel :—" In his humble apprehension (he added), the House could never, consistently with common sense or com mon justice, pronounce a decision in favour of a paper currency of any other description than one convertible on demand." Yet this gentle man, who has so strong a conviction of the in jury which a departure from the standard would cause, and who dwells upon the mischief of exposing the Bank to runs, proposes, with all gravity, the making Bank of England notes a legal tender by country bankers. A banker of Norwich had told him, that he could not sleep quietly at night in his bed, unless he hall ob tained a sovereign for every one-pound note he had in the house; but the banker of Norwich would have slept quietly if Bank of England notes were made a legal tender in the country. But this supposes that the banker of Norwich had Bank of England notes under his head to cover his issues. The whole scheme seems admirably adapted for involving country bankers in danger, and embarrassing the Bank of England. If any doubt existed of the solvability of a country bank, B ink of England notes would instantly be demanded. If these notes were not forthcoming then gold would be demanded. If Bank of England notes in suffi cient quantity were to be in the possession of the country bankers, and the exchanges were to be unfavourable, how could the Bank of England turn itself round, fettered as it would be by the operations of the country bankers ? When coun9 try bankers act with prudence, they have not more to fear from a demand for gold than a de mand for notes. The Scotch bankers are not protected from paying in gold, but they have neither gold nor Bank of England notes under their hands in anything like the amount of their 1/. notes. They know that if they were to issue notes in excess, bills on London would instantly be demanded, and this again would lead to The saleof stock and other ruinous operatio ns. scheme of Mr. A. thrillg is a bsolutely inure mischievous than that of Arr. M. Attwood ; for depreciation is too stale a trick to take in any but b u t Mr. Baring 's sch mt f , the very rawest; would either be imperative, or it would seduce country bankers into the id,ta that the substi tution o f Bank of England notes for gold as