The Sun. — London, England, 1830-02-13 00:00:00

I I )ver migh xalls l ua ted property-tex o w,hich should hear slightly upon slen qr mearis, but draw largely en redundant resources. One !NA more with respect : to• the Hon. Member : he- heard universally stated amongst the farmers yesterday, that the , Member forEsex had applied for and received his ilk% at the last audit as regularly as at any firmer period. W I Rea also inf Tired, that when it was intimated to the en• Member that his tenants expected something to be r eturned to them, he replied that he was not a man to pur chase populatity, by concession. Lord IIOWICK was a good . deal surprised to hear the t il :°n. Memb er w h o b a d j us t s itt en d own , join the echo of It e vulgar cry which had been set up in certain publica tions aaainst the landlords of England. He was no bi 5 &fitted supporter of that class, as 'he. had proved, by !"tilig on every division in favour of almost unlimited n ee trad e in corn ; but he must confess that he had lis • 40 e4 with indignation to the imputations cast on the landlords. The Hon. Member had not scrupled to charge landlords with exacting front their tenants more than t hey could afford'or justice required them to pay. This charge was utterly unfounded.—(Hear.) , 1 %. LENNARD said, that the Hon. Member for Col !')ester had given a most fanciful report of the proceed- Li te which took place at the Essex Meeting. He was Present at the meeting, and he could declare that not one Word of the conversation which the Hon. Member alleged t() have taken place fell from any person except the Hon. f e ather hi mse lf. • H e mus t lik e wi se s ay th a t th e H on naber had given a very temperate report of his own "tell. At the meeting he talked of the flinty hearts of t he landl or d s , an d sa id that they had dragged -their te nantry into the dust. He also spoke of the Clergy as a l et of voluptuaries, rolling in luxuries, and forgetful of their duties. Those sentiments were beard with disgust by all the gentlemen at the meeting. He believed that at no other time than the present would a petition like that Il l,'"ted by the Hon. Member have been carried in Essex,against , "e sense of all the gentlemen connected with the county Ko,w ere p resen t. He begged to press that circumstance on the attention of Government. It was an awful sign °f the titnes.—(Hear.)--Now that the people were mad dened by distress, which was daily and hourly increasing, the persons sincerely attached to the institutions of the Country, who recommended temperate courses, were losing their influence. He trusted that before it was too late the Government would adopt some course for relieving the distresses of . the country. Air. HUME approved of every word contained in the petition. Mr. F. PALMER said that if salaries and rents were to be reduced to the,etandard of 1797, it was necessary that taxes should be reduced in like manner. He thought that the present situation of the country demanded the s erious consideration of Parliament. The meetings which *ere taking place in various parts of the country origi lkted in no dissatisfaction against the Government, but in the existence of a distress which it was beyond his power to describe. The distress had been progressively in :lensing during the last two years, as he had the oppor tunity of observing from acting as a magistrate. The misery of the peasantry at the present moment beggared all d escription. With respect to the reduction of rents, he believ e d th ere was scarce l y a l an dl or d i n Digital(' who had n ot reduced them more or less. After a few words from Mr. N. CALYEILT, the petition * l ll ordered to be read. Mr. ViSTllllV,lnmoving that the petition be brought 4 1), begged to make a few observations in consequence of t he exceedingly personal remarks which the Hon. Member f or Colch e st er h a d made upon him. In the first place, he "egged leave to say that none of his tenants were 1001. in serear with him. He had no tenants who were not highly 48 Psetable. During the whole period of difficulty he had t leser had a tenant give up his house or his farm. That ' d one was a tolerable answer to the attack of the Hon. M ember. -( Hear. ) — He would, however, tell the House P i e system whi c h he h a d adopted nearly ten years ago.— / reduced all his rents to the price of corn. In this W 'Y his rents in some years had been reduced 50 per cent. ---- (nesr.)...—Fle believed, however, that if the present state of things continued much longer, he would be obliged to it'educe his r en ts below the price of corn. He tsusted he "rye the enough to satisfy the House that he did not de "'se the attack which had been made upon him. thell:tahehl petition was then brought up, and ordered to lie on Mr. WESTERN presented two petitions from the met.- eli a 4 b, traders, and farmers of Colchester , and the owners and Dcmipters of land in the parish of Teuninghani, in Esse z complaining of the pressure of distress. • Mr.`"OURTS OF JUDICATURE AT BOMBAY. hSTEWART gave notice,. that on the 4th of March e 7 mi ld mov e for copies of all correspondence which had . t aken Place respecting the interference of the Government India with the Supreme Court at Bombay. STATE OF THE COUNTRY. The. CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved the Onler of the. Day for receiving the Report of the Com mittee of Supply. On the motion that the Report be brought up, Mr. CALLAGHAN would avail himself of this oppor tunitr briefly to express his sentiments respectin ,, the state of the country. The public interests appeared to be di visible into- two branches;—first, our foreign relations; and,. secondly, the internal condition of the empire. The general habits of his mind would not enable him to dwell long on the first of these point s; b u t h e cou ld not avo id rejoicing at the circumstance of our, being in a state of aunty with all the world. Ministers appeared likely to extricate us from our difficulties with regard to Portugal, without coining in collision with any party. Ministers deserved credit for .the manner in which they had got over the unfortunate occurrence at Nayarit'. With re- T ;tr _ e et to th e i n t erna l con dition of the empire, the only - "' ren ee of opinion seemed to be with respect to ' , e quantu m of distress which "existed. What could the distress be imputed to ? In his opinion it could e :attributed to, no particular cause. He believed that the measure adopted in .1819, respecting the currency, La d produced evils which %vete not at that time antici pated; but he trusted that no attempt would made to re -7• 4 that measure. The Minister who would consent to 4 , 4t adon the principle of that measure in compliance with the popular clamour, would deserve to be held up to uni ,t'ermal execration. He thought, however, that some plan might be hit upon to alleviate the evils which had resulted rent the measure of 1819. It was certain that much °eat distress had been occasioned in consequence of the : °u 'ltry bankers withdrawing their small notes from cir -u4Ltion. In 1818, the present Lord Bexley introduced "ill to enable bankers to issue mites under a certain a i n iount, upon depositing securities. This Bill received 14 sanction of Lord Liverpool, who was known to be a 'needy :friend of the return to cash payments, but was su bsequently withdrawn. Ile thought, that if a measure 44 that nature were to be brought forward, it would he p r oductive of great benefit.—(Cries of . " question.")— t 8 the House had not gone into a Committee of Supply, e thought he was justified in making a series of general r emarks on the various subjects which were likely to corn mnnd the attention of the House, with reference to the evailing distress of the country.—(Much interruption.)— ~t was said that measures were to be proposed to remove '"e general distress which at present existed. He knew rl l ) t what those measures were ; but he would say that tt Was a dangerous delusion on the people that their dis -4:88 could not be alleviated,—that relief could not be n4 ord e d to them, through .the exertions of the nobility 4 ' . ." 1 gentry. He thought very differently. If all of them ,1 their duty, the prevailing distress might be mitigated. Ke felt that much was in the power of the aristocracy— knell was in the power of his Majesty's Ministers. He nkierstood that it would be proposed that night, to pay knPublic s a l a ries in the standard of 1797. He wished to w what was meant by this. if it went to a reduction a su pport civil list, as settled in 1820, he tendered his humble i t "OPort in endeavouring to effect that measure.—(Hear, e4r .)--The civil list was settled at a time when there was t '- settled standard of currency, and that settlement was v l i vr Y much alteied by the altered system of the currency. i t i lie Hon. Member fur Carlisle meant to propose that Civil list should be readjusted, he would most gladly 44ent to the proposition, leaving to Ministers the mode (1 ma nner i n w hi c h th e a lt era ti on s h ou ld b e ca r r i e d into 1t• A reduction of the public expenditure would, in j " opinion, be very useful to the Ministers themselves. t n that case an experiment might and ought to be made : reduce the taxes of the country. The Act of last j:Pr the only sensible Act that ever was passed—(Much t - ) : l 4 4l 4er) r e-the Act of last year established the principle, tl the siolsing pd was nither more nor less than 'e surplus of re f :Terme n over e expenditure. A different P Pi lleiple had previously prevailed, and the amount of the Sink ihg Fund was settled according to the pleasure of the l inister. I n 1619, L or d Li verpoo l sa id, th a t it should i q ' e 8,0 00,0001. ; and he borrowed money on Exchequer ' l ll's to make up that amount; but now the Sinking Pond was properly defined to be the surplus which re 4tained over the expend i ture of the country. H e b e li eve d t hat the last return stated that overpus to be 2,000,0001. a ' l '2 or $OO,OOO/. Now, in his opinion, they ought to aPPropriste that sum to the reduction of taxes, and he was Zrloure that the removal of taxation to the amount of 4, or 2 500,000/. would operate as a substantial the country, and would so fur assist the Chancel ret'l the Exchequer in reducing the 4 per Cents., if such eis ei !" , tee were in contemplation.—(Coughing and much core: ll . ° n.the impatience of the House to the notice (the only one on the book) of the Hon. Member for Carlisle, but 'be had a public duty to perform, and he trusted that his sense of that duty would plead his excuse for, claiming the atteatien of the House. He had not yet said a word on the subject of Ireland. (The noise was here so great that the Hon. Gentleman's obser vation could not be heard.) He saw clearly that he could not. obtain a patient hearing from the House. and there fore he would not trespass further on their time. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said, the mode of 'proceeding which bad been adopted by the Hon. Member whohad just spoken was a very extraordinary one. He had argued on his (Sir James - Graham's) motion before he had heard it. He believed, however, that his motion would fully come up to the point to which the Hon. Member had alluded ; and therefore he hoped to receive his support. He never rose in that Himse without great unwillingness, and the situation in which lie was at present placed rather aggra vated the repugnance which lie felt to occupy their time. The task which he had imposed upon himielf was a most important and a most difficult one. His great object was to introduce a system of strict economy, and of course he could not expect the concurrence of those who were likely to be affected by the proposition with which he meant to conclude. He could not stand there in this time of general distress—a distress which was 'general throughout the country—without making an eff at to alleviate it.—(Hear, hear.)—He called the ...distress ".general;" .for, notwith standing the declaration in his Majesty's Speech that it existed only partially, yet the admission made by those who supported the Address—coupled with the abstinence of Ministers from stating precisely the extent of that dis tress--did, in his mind, prove that it was deeply felt in every part of the country.—(Hear. )—The abstinence of Ministers from introducing a statement relative to the amount of distress, which was at present felt in every quarter, excited the greatest possible disappointment and amaeement.—(Hear.)—lt converted hope into despair, land it changed the desire which had been previously felt to endure suffering patiently into feelings of bitterness and anger. Now, in contending that this distress was general, lie could not but remember the qualifications with which the Government had met the statement that misery and wretchedness every where prevailed. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite ekplaine.l his view of the subject by stating, that in England, indeed, the distress was general ; but that with respect to Scotland and Ireland such was not the case. Now this exception struck him as being very remarkable; for surely it must have occurred to the Right Hon. Gentleman himself that his argument would bear strongly against a principle which he had frequently defended. He (Sir J. Graham) would ask, " Are not Scotland and Ireland exceptiors from those measures with respect to which the Right Hon. Gentleman and myself have so often differed, and to which I mainly attribute the distress of this country ?" —(Hear, hear.)—ln 1826, when the Government, contrary to' the principles laid down by Sir Francis Baring, by Adam Smith; and by Mr. Hall—contrary also to the opinion expressed by the Bullion Committee of 1310, and contraty even to the more recent decision of the Committee of 1819, all of which went to this point, that a paper currency, payable 'on demand; was a sufficient check to the over-issue of paper—when the Government proceeded on a different principle, and enacted that the small notes should be with drawn—when they came to that determination without due inquiry, they laid the foundation of that widely-spread distress that now exists . in England.—(Hear, hear.) — Scotland and Ireland, where the small-note currency was not touched, were not, it was said borne down by calamity; but England, where without inquiry the small-note circu lation was suddenly withdrawn, was, they all know, invaded by the most cruel distress. He must, however, take leave to say, that the fact of the absence of distress in Scotland and Ireland remained to be verified. But, if such were the case, it did not bear against, but on the contrary, it fortified his argument. Having said thus much on the distress of the country, he now cane to one or two general propsitions which were necessary to the support of his proposition. In the first place, he would observe, that the Bank Re striction Act of 1797 produced two different effects—the one was, a depreciation of the value of money, and the other, a great rise of prices. Now the rise of prices at that day was the cause of granting increased salaries ; but prices having again come &mu, he did not know how they could fairly proceed with the increased scale of salaries. (Hear, hear.)—He would here refer, irst to the evidence of Lord Sidmouth, in the year 1802, when he came for ward to ask for an increase of the civil list : he said— " When gentlemen refer to their experience of the in creased value of every article in the course of the last two or three years, and when they reflect on all the circum stance' of the times, I am sure the excess of the civil list, which renderer an addition to it necessary, will be readily accounted for." These words were not very clear, and adid not go the full length of his proposition, though it did support it to a certain extent. In 1804 a fresh debt was accumulated on the civil list. Mr. Pitt was then Prime Minister ; and he came down to the House at that time to call for a grant of money to make up the deficiency. Almost the first sentence he uttered on that occasion clearly showed that the alteration which Mr. Pitt then moved for was considered of a temporary nature, and was to terminate on the return of peace. He said—" No gen tleman who reflected on the very considerable rise that had taken place in the price of every article, of domestic „ aa a a modation could be surprised that his Majesty had not confined his expences under that head (the household) within limits that had been marked out so long Since.— Here Mr. Pitt clearly assigned the reason for malting an additional grant--namely, the depreciated value of, money, which. was . at that time 40 or 50 per cent.; and the increased price of provisions. The next au thority he should quote was Mr. Perceval, who, in 1809, applied to Parliament for an increase of the salaiy of the Judges, and from his statement they might learn the extent of depreciation at that period. He called for au ad dition of 1,0001. per annum to the salary of each of the puisne judges, and an increase to the Welch judges of 3001. a year, on the express ground of the in crease in the price of provisions. At that time wheat was 945. the quarter, and gold was 41. 10s. 9d. per ounce; but, judging from the price,. not of one commo dity, but of all commodities, it was manifest that a very great rise in their value had then taken place. It was of importance to mark the opinion of those different Minis ters, who one after the other, showed that the principle on which they proceeded in calling for an extension of sala ries, was the high price of provisions, and the depreciation of the currency. Now, the fact of the high price of pro visions during the war was a matter of such notoriety, that there was no necessity to dwell longer on it: and, in his opinion, the fact of the depreciation of the currency was equally clear. But there did stand on the Journals of that House, a resolution which was meant to negative this latter fact. It was resolved, at a time when the guinea was worth 285., that a pound note and a shilling were equal to a guinea. It was gravely decided, by a vote of that House, that things which were equal in public esti tnation were absolutely equal. Every tnan who could count ten on his fingers, must have felt that this was a fal lacy, and the very next year Parliament showed that they were convinced it was nothing else, by passing an act, de claring it to be a misdemeanour for any person to pay snore than 21s. for a guinea.—(Hear.)—Aod yet, after this, the House and the people were asked to place entire confidence in Ministers, to rely implicitly on the sound views and comprehensive wisdom of an administration composed of the shreds of those who had committed these absurdities.—(Hear, hear.) " 0! mi s seras bominuin curas—O pectora caeca!" Various and discordant were the causes to which they at tributed the prevailing distress. At one time the harvests were over -abundant; at another, the harvest was deficient. At one time, there was too much heat; at another, too little. At one time, there was too much drought ; at an other, too Much rain. —(Hear, hear. )—liut they never once recollected the finely-expressed maxim, " that every additiOn - to the burden of taxation increases, as it were, the sterility of the soil."—(Hear, bear.)—The act of 1819 re stored the value of money to a very great extent. The Right liOn, Gent. opposite, (for whose integrity he had the most unfeigned respect,) in moving for the alteration in the currency, quoted the period of Qheen Elizabeth, when there was not a farthing of debt, and that of William, when the debt amounted to about 2,000;0001., and the interest was only a few thousand pounds. He never touched upOn the consequences which the change was cal culated to produce, and which it had produced, in every department throughout the country.—(Hear.)--lie could speak freely on this point, for reasons that could be easily imagined. Lie was, in 1819, a very young Member of Parliament, and his own private opinion was overborne by authority. He pinned his faith on the justice of the views entertained by Mr. Ricardo;—a most amiable and well-educated man. He said that the value of the cur rency was regulated by the market-price of gold, which was 41. Is. per ounce. lie (Sir James Graham) had some doubts to the correctness of this doctrine—doubts, which were further strengthened by the observations of hit Hon. Friend; the Member for Callinnion (Mr. Baring.) lie was, nevertheless, overborne by the authority of Mr. Ricardo, and he voted with the Right lion Gentleman. When Lord Liverpool, the colleague of the Wgitt Hon. Gentleman, urged the same measure in the tither House, he stated that the alteration would create a diftetence of more than 3 per cent. But what was the fact? Why, it caused a variation of 25 per cent., and the Hon. Nort her for Callingtou had told them that the variation would be from 25 to 30 per cent., but never below 25 per cent. 'The other Hun, Member for Callington (Mr, Attweod) had calculated that the difference would be.effecte ' in the value of the Currency by the eof 1819' ry,,el be still higher. Another lion. lend of his, (M,.. Brougham,) who was not now a Member of the House, and whose opinion, therefore, it was irreenhir for him to read, had, in 1825, when, arguing tlu sulject of tie Judges' salarieS, in his usual comprehensive manner, gone over the whole subject.. He said that " a few years ago the Judges had 3,000/. a year, to which 3;3/. per cent. had been added to make up the high price of the necessa ries of life ; but the reduction of taxes, and the alteration in the currency, which had since taken place, must have made a difference of 25 per cent. name in their favour." This statement had been repeated in the presence of the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and he never knew that Right Hon. Gentleman to stand up in his place and controvert its accuracy. If the ltight Hon. Gentle man doubted it, he should like to hear his doubts ; and if he acknowledged its truth, he should be glad to know on what gionnds the system ought to be continued.— ( Hear.),—He should now observe that this increased value of money had a two-fold operation. It added to the weight of all fixed payments, while it lowered the price of wages and of provisions. The Hon. Member for Colchester (Mr. D. W. Harvey) lad told the landed interest that it was their bounden duty to reduce their rents. He coincided perfectly in the answer which had been given to the Hon. Gent.—namely, that rents had been reduced from 25 to 30 per cent. throughout England, on account of the peace. But, he would ask, was the landed interest to be called on to balance the alteration in the value of money by an other reduction of 25 per cent?—(Hear.)—lf this were to be done, then he would boldly say to the landlords of England, "sell your estates."---(Hear.)—lf such reduc tions were constantly demanded, he could only view such a course as a short and' silent, but a most certain mode to ruin him who had charges on his propel ty. As the landed proprietors were now situated, they had to meet the taxes of the war with the prices which preceded it--the taxation of paper was now to be met with the price of bullion. The taxes were put on in paper, and not in heavy money, though they must now be paid through this latter medinM. The . consequence was, that they deeply affected the great body of the people. It would be admitted on all hands that the prosperity of those who labour was intimately connected with the welfare and strength of the state. If the labourer was in distress, all other classes must be distressed. If the labourer wanted bread, all property, whether landed or funded, must experience great injury. —( Hear. )—He wished to see the taxes rendered necessary by the war reduced now that the war was terminated; but instead of that being done,•he contended, looking to the alteration in the cur rency, that fresh taxes had been imposed. The distress of the people must be attended to; it would force itself on their consideration however unwilling they might be to at tend to it. It was a pebble which from the sling of a stripling might enter the brain of a giant and overthrow him. 'When the people were in a state of deep distress, it was quite clear to him that no monetary arrangement could by itself afford them relief. Other measures must be re sorted to. Of what avail, he demanded, were the wise plans of the Right Hon. Member for Liverpool, while you retain a close monopoly of corn ? Under existing cir cumstances free trade was not feasible, and as long as those circumstances lasted never could be feasible. Until they adopted a different measure with reference to the currency, and made a proper alteration in the Corn Laws, free trade, they might depend on it, would work but badly. Where taxation entered largely into any article, less of that article would be consumed, but it never could become cheap ; and this was ably proved by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen; who, in his resolutions of 1825, showed that, with respect to malt, tobacco, sugar, tea, &c., a less quantity was consumed than was made use of in the French war. 'lbis evidently was occasioned by taxa tion. When, therefore, they enhanced the value of money, and did not reduce the taxes in an equal degree, those taxes must bear heavily on the poor. Taxation pre vented the fall of prices, and added materially to the dis comfort of the people. He had heard something said about the luxuries which the people enjoyed. For his own part he knew not from whence they came, whether they were drawn from the gorgeous palaces of Kings, or the rival palaces of Ministers, who had been splendidly provided for by the publie—(Hear, hear)—or from the East India Directors, with their monopoly of the China trade—(Hear, hear)—or from some contractor, who sup plied loans and lent money to France in depreciated paper, which was now to be paid in money.—(Hear, hear.) — But he must take leave to rernark that they ought not to draw their notions of the state of the country from scenes such as those. " Ye friends to truth, ye statesmen who survey The rich man's joys increase, the poor's decay, 'Tis y our's to judge how wide the limits stand Bet Ween a splendid and a happy land." Where,• he asked, were all the boasted advantages of this once happy country? Where were all the blessings which formerly distinguished her ? Where were all the comforts which her children had enjoyed for ages ? " Alas ! Sir, (said the Hon. Baronet), with deep regret I witness that all—all are gone ! pinching- hunger and gloomy despair now usurp their situation." The weavers throughout the country were only earning 4s. 2d. a-week, and their food was oatmeal, water, and potatoes. They worked 14 or 16 hours a-day, and yet they could only procure this scanty remuneration. It was a fact that by dint of labour the power-looms, which were supposed to have caused their distress, were absolutely under-wrought by those almost starving people —( Hear, hear.)—He would not further enlarge upon that painful topic. The country had arrived at a point when it was necessary, for the safety of pro perty, for the security of all that was dear to them, that something prompt and effectual should be done. He saw his Hon . . and Learned Frieml the Solicitor-General in his place, and he would adopt an expression made use of by him on another occasion. He would confidently say "w e cannot remain as we are." " Hic locus est, partes übi se via findit in ambas:" -- - There were two separate roads. The one was the short path of justice—inviolable, inflexible justice—rigid um sparing economy—low wages, low rents, if they pleased, but low salaries also.—(Hear, hear.)—The other, the left-hand path, was that by which greater prices might be obtained, not by fraud, as he had always said, but by re turning to the ancient standard of England—that standard which had prevailed from the time of the Tudors to the RevolutiOn, and from the Revolution, with little inter ruption, till. 1793. Silver joined with gold was the standard to which he alluded.—(Hear, hear.)—The mea sure of the Right Hon. Gentlemen in 1819 was a novelty, but that novelty, so far frritn having been in operation,- as was asserted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer, for nine years, was not in operation for ten months. In the year following the passing of that Act of Parlia ment, Lord Castlereagh frankly admitted that the distress of the country was so overwhelming, that he could not adhere. to its provisions. He found that he could not carry it into execution; and he said, " I will depart from it." And what did he do? Why he repealed the Small Note Act, and adopted means_ for the issue of paper. Prices immediately rose, and prosperity was the cons& quence for a short period.—(Hear, hear.)--He knew the meaning of that cheer, and he would answer it. A small note currency, with gold at Si. 17s. 104 d. per ounce, he knew would be delusive, and would bring the country back to the distress of 1825. - But such was not his argu ment. What he said was, that they must examine and alter the state of the currency, and allow paper money, payable on demand, to be •converted into silver or gold. They ought also to revise their whole system of banking. These were matters which he wished to be inquired into; but the Government were inflexible, and said " You shall not inquire." And if individuals did inquire, and hap pened to inquire a little too much, the Attorney-General was ready to pounce upon them—(Hear, hear)—and to file an ex-officio information—(Hear, hear)-for the Icese majestatis of an intention to bring the Government into contempt.—(Hear, hear.)—Ministers would listen to no proposition on the subject of the currency. The Right lion. Gentleman would have gold,—gold,—gold,— nothing but gold. • But the country would, he hoped, speedily awake from its slumber, and, with a voice of thunder, compel hini to repeal this ruinous measure. Ile should now go into the remaining part of the subject. One great source of retrenchment must be, the reduction 'of the salaries of those who had their hands in the public purse. Some might say that other measures were neces sary. This might be so at a moment of distress like the present, hut. the great object should be retrenchment to the utmost degree. That end might be accomplished in two ways;--either by reducing the number of persons employ ed, or by reducing their salaries,—or by doing both.— With respect to the decrease of numbers, he conceived that was not a point to be dealt with now. That was a matter of detail which would be best discussed when the estimates were brought forward. With respect to the reduction of salaries, he thought that subject should he considered before they went into a committee of supply,—before a single esti mate was laid on the table,—in order that some fixed principle should be adopted in framing the estimates that were to he introduced. It was only fair to allow Govern ment to bring forward its estimates reduction, and pledge itself to the quantum of such reduction, if it were so dis posed, before we stated in what scale we wished the reduc tion to lie made. The principle of public salaries as ar ranged by Mr. Pitt, Mr. Addington, and Mr. Perceval, rested upon the depreciation of the currency which took place in consequence of the provisions of the Bank Re striction Act, which was passed in 1797. That some re duetion must be made on the amount of taxation was .ad :ratted. 1 wss. .equally cleat that, in order to effect these reduet'u n rontractiOnot out expeno . nture was ne cessary. - 'it reina'ned for hitulia describe on what principle the neht clue se:Lois:a ef Official men should be reduced. (The lion. Member Fore read - the resolution which he after- . seard s 'imposed at tlue coeclusion of his speech.) He might be asked what was it that he meant to exclude from the operation of this resolution. To this he answered, that lit meant to ex chide forum those reduction s every thing relating , 0 his Majests's privy purse and the Royal establishment. He considered such Matters - as coming under the head of engagements entered into at the beginning of the reign, and which we could not violate. It was upon such grounds that he did not wish to meddle with his Majesty's privy purse, - or the Royal household. With respect to our warlike establishments, he would confirm our contract with the sailor—his pay had been fixed 'in 1798, when prices did not materially vary from those of the - present clay ; and in his wish to supersede the necessity of impress ment, be for one would rather raise than lower the sailor's pay in the Royal Navy, in order to bring it on a level with that of the merchant service. With regard to the army, our soldiers had entered it for a term of years, and the stipulated sum should be paid to them, anal the benefits to which they were entitled - at the end of their service se cured. These he held to be sacred and solemn engagements. The argiumnt which applied to the srd tier applied also to the officer, although it must be admitted that the manage ment of the half-pay since the termination of the war had been such in some instances as to convert it into a pension list. But what had been done should not be undone—and, with regard to the Crown, the army, and navy, he had no hesitation in saying that they diul not fall within the pirit of his resolution. He might be asked, why intro duce the term " military" into his resolution ? He intro duced it because, in many cases, the salaries of military officers, who held civil situations, had been augmented without sufficient reason, and because some of these officers .being removable at pleasure, their allowances might now be altered without difficulty. He found among the list of Colonial Governors, that the sa lary of the Lieutenant-Governor of New Brunswick had been raised from 1,000/." to 1,500/. per annum, within the period in question. That the salary of the Governor of Nova Scotia had been raised from 1,000/. to 2,000/. ; (be might observe, while upon the subject of this . .colony, that the salary of the Bishop of Nova Scotia was, raised from 700/. to 1,0001. a year.) The salary of the Governor r of Prince Edward's Island had been raised from 800/.. to 1,000/. ; and that of the Governor of Newfound land from 500/. to 1,0001. In Port Jackson the salary of the Governor was also doubled, it being originally 1,000/., and now 2,0001. a year. The salary of the Go vernor of Sierra-Leone was also raised from 1,0001. to 2,000/. per annum. • In the second report of the Finance Committee was contained a recommendation which, as far as he knew, still remained without having been carried into effect. The Committee recommended that we should revert to the principle of enlistment in the army that pre vailed previous to 1806. This was the positive recom mendation of the Committee in 1828, yet nothing had been done towards carrying it into effect. He well knew the zeal and industry of his Gallant Friend opposite, but still he thought that some good might be done by recall ing - public•attention to this point. He wished shortly to remind the House of the difference of our position as re garded the amount of our expenditure now and in 1797. 'f he expences incurred on account of dividends and ma nagement of the public debt in 1797 were 11,500,000/. ; in 1828 they amounted to 27,366,000/. In the former year the amount of pensions on the Consolidated Fund was 180,0001. ; in the latter, 365,580/. The salaries paid out of the Consolidated Fund amouted in 1797 to 14,600/. ; in 1828, to the sum of 80,800/. The amount of expences incurred on account of Courts of Justice was 31,000/. in 1797 ; but in 1828 it reached 148,000/. In 1797, payments chargeable thereon were made out of the Consolidated Fund to the amount of 119,000/. ; in 1828 they were 566,000/. It should be recollected that 1797 was a year that occurred in the midst of a most important and dangerous war. Previous to that we had had a much lower criterion with respect to the price of our army and navy. For instance, - in 1793, the cost of the army was only 2,500,000/. ; whereas, it was now (including half-pay) about 8,000,000/. In 1793, the expences of the navy were 2,750,000/. ; in 1829, they reached 0300,000/. The Ordnance department cost 459,000/. in 1793, and 1,500,000/. in 1829. Thus the total cost of our warlike establishments in 1793 was 5,709,000/. ; but in 1829 they amounted to 15,500,000/. Let it not he forgotten, that in 1793 wheat was 50s. a quarter, and that in 1830 it was 555. a quarter ; so that, where one bushel of wheat was required for the support of these establishments in 1793, three bushels were called for at the present day, in consequence of their increased et pense. The report of the Finance Committee stated that the warlike establishments of the country were required to be kept up, not so much with reference to the possibility Of war, but with a view to defend us against foreign inva sion ; and recommended retrenchment. He was afraid of fatiguing the House, but there was one or two points more which he wished to touch upcn. He was desirous of adverting to the per centage charged on the collec tion of the revenue. He thought that the time had airived when it was desira'de that the gross receipts of the Excise should be carried to the public account, so as to enable us to see the actual payments made without de duction. The per centage in the collection of the Cus toms was 61 per cent: on 19,000,000/. ; on 22,000,0001. produced by the Excise, the per centage was 4/., 9s. The expense of collection had gone on increasing, for while in 1810 it only amounted to 4/. 9e. per cent., it was now Si. 19s. 2d., or in round numbers 6 per cent. He did not wish to do any thing invidious ; but there was one salary to which be should call the attention of the House. The father of the Hon. Member for Northamptonshire, in 1798, when at the bead of the Board which sent Nelson to conquer at the Nile and Duncan at Camperdown, *as content with a salary of 3,000/. a year, yet now, with prices reduced to the. scale prevalent previous to 1795, we paid Lord Melville 5,000/. per annum—an increase of nearly 60 per cent, upon the salary paid to Lord Spencer. The number of persons employed in the civil service in 1797 was (according to authentic returns) 16,267, and their salaries amounted to 1,374,561/., giving an average salary of 84/. a year to each individual. In 1827 the number of persons employed had increased to 22,912, and their salaries to 2,788,0001., the average salary being 121/. Thus it appeared that there had been an addition of one-third to the number of employees, and an increase of 50 per cent. on their salaries in 1827, as compared with 1797. The precious metals were the nominal, but bread and corn were the real standard value—in 1810 wheat was 105 s. the quarter ; at present it was 555. So that in the former year, which was the more expensive period, it would have taken 500,000 quarters of corn to pay what it would now require 1,000,000 quarters to pay—it was not fair that the servants of the Crown . should receive double salaries, and pay half prices. —(Hear, hear, anal laughter. )---On this imperfect view of the subject, he was yet willing to rest his case. He 'confessed that he was one of those who viewed with the utmost jealousy the elevation of the Duke of Wellington to the highest office in the State in 1828. Ile did not think that military edu cation was the best preparation fur administering the affairs of 4 free State.—(Hear.)—Hel feared that the Noble Duke might transfer to the Administration of the Govern ment the doctrine of the camp, and recognize no con nection between the Prince and the people, except that of rigid command and implicit obedience. But reflection led him to see that he who haul achieved such actions, aided by the courage of the people of England—that he who had so frequently conducted to victory a race of men who proved themselves by their conduct the lords of the hu man kind —would not fall into such an error, and he had not been altogether disappointed in Iris expectations.— On his first accession to pottier, the Noble Duke supported ' the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts. Besides, there was a more recent act of that distinguished person, which had much delighted him : lie alluded to the act of conferring the merited honours of his profession on a dis tinguished barrister, mite an ornament of that House, and whom he wished again to see within its walls—a man who was content to hazard the sacrifice of professional ttuiariaa unhappy ‘ c v o o n n s: a •i n e_n ti ( o l u i s ear discharge ) The D al t u di ty towards e l e ad alva s i' u e c e c ul e a e el u n led in carrying a measure which Mr. Pitt de, dared to be the key -stone of the union between England and Ireland, and which he was yet unable to 'perfect ; which Mr. Fox, though lie had advocated it strenuously and - powerfully, did not venture to bring forward as a ministerial measure ;—for an attempt to carry which `Lords Grey and Grenville bad been hurled from power ; which Mr. Grattan, although ready to sacrifice his life in the cause, had been unable with all his great and va ried talents to accomplish;—which caused to Sir. Can ning, because he could not effect it, a degree of care -and sorrow that doubtless accelerated his death, and occasioned and di h; s ilsv T sei o nx f cp r ei e .re t es i s i oe i spdwi opinion with to i , o i s;c e c a s t s t ' o ' his impatient mind, -- working out its way, Mr. Canning, notwithstanding the calumny and misrepresentation to which that Statesman had. bean subjected. The Noble Duke, • nothing daunted at the failure of his predecessors, made the attempt, and won the d a y, effecting an unequalled triumph in the establishment of civil and • religious peace. These were great obliga tions which the D u k e o f Wellington haul laid upon 'his a sountry, but' they were not sufficient, Time hurried on, ' day by day we were called upon for our decision upon • points of economy and retrenchment, and our decision could hot lonilag behind the public expectation. The -Duke of Wellington's administration was Raid to be founded e n the dissolution of party mheline—it was intimated that the Noble Dulic possessed a recei!:t for the dispersion of party—(A lauel!)—and the imiendieg of men on all sides and opinions. For instance, ther e was Lord Rossiyn, Lord Privy Seal ; and the other day the Mint was offered to the Noble Lord the Member for Buckinghamshire : we had a Whig Attorney-General, and another Hon. Gentle. man from the same ranks was lately appointed to a high judicial office in Scotland. Then, dropping among the free traders, the Noble Duke picked out a tame elephant fur • the Board of Controul.—(Laughter.)—This was an admirable nostrum. No doubt the Noble Duke possessed the secret of dispersing and neutralizing factions and pre venting the existence of patty; but was the nostrum equally efficacious for the purpose of forming a party ? Or could a Government be carried on without one ?—(Hear.) ft would seem as if the Noble Duke possessed a crucible, whereby all parties were to be fused down into one mass, for the exclusive benefit of the great elchymist who blew the coals -(Hear, and laughter. )—For his part he'did not much approve of this proCess, and saw no safety for the public interest except in dealing with ecch individual question, as it happened to be brought forward, upon its own abstract merits, without reference to the quarter from whence it proceeded, without reference to the motives which dictated its introduction, or the effects which it might have on the fortunes or de:A :an of the Administra tion.—(Hear.) It might be thought ti: ;t the ime was come when it was necessary to form a pat ty on behalf of the tax-payer. He perceived nothing dishonour&' he in the conduct of the Hon. Member for Kent, or in the conduct of his Hon. relative the Member for Yorkshire, in the course they proposed to pursue, and he was willing to act in concert with them to the furtherance of public objects. He would not be deterreet from discharging his duty by the imputation of improper motives. He owed it to iris con stitueets thus to discharge his duty. He sought for no thing at the hands of Ministers, and should continue to act independently so lon g as he had the honou r t o a dd ress the Commons House of Parliament, which, with all its faults, he considered the noblest assembly - of freedom in the world.—(Hear, hear.) The Honourable Baronet concluded by moving a resolution to the effect, that " Whereas, subsequently to the Act 37 Geo. 111., for the suspension of cash payments by the Bank of England, large augmentations have from time to time been made in the salaries and pay of persons employed in the civil and mili tart' service of the country, on account of the diminished value of money ; and whereas the alleged reason of this in crease has, for the most part, ceased to operate, in conse quence of the Act 59 Geo. 111., which has restored the metallic standard of value,—it is expedient that, with a view to relief from the present excessive load of taxation, all such amsmentations should now be revised, and every possible reduction effected, which can be male without the violation of existing engagements, and without detriment to the public service." The question having been put— Mr. DAWSON said that acknowledging, as be did, the great talent, ability, and eloquence with which his Hon. Friend had brought forward the subject now under con sideration, still it was not his intention to follow the Hon. Baronet through all the topics to which he had alluded in the course of his speech. He should rather endeavour to lead the House from the consideration of some of the va rious subjects to which his Hon. Friend addressed him self, but which did not touch the latter at issue, and con fine their attention to the narrow limits of the motion.— His Hon. Friend's speech appeared a concentration of the spirit of the debates that had taken place during the pre sent Session, and a condensation of almost all the topics urged in the last Session. He should not follow his Hon. Friend through so wide a range of observations, but would simply explain to the House before calling on it for any opinion on a subject affecting the interests and happiness of thousands that the Hon. Gentleman had passed over, and the measures which Government bad long pursued. As to the naked proposition of reducing salaries to the scale of 1797 he should not say a word, not that he did not take nearly the same view as his Hon. Friend, as to the neces sity of reducing our expenditure as much as possible con sistently with the public service, but because he undertook to prove that Government had gone as far as they had pledged themselves to go, and had evinced a sincere desire to carry measures of economy into effect. His lion. Friend wished to regulate the payment of public officers, so that their salaries and duties should correspond. This might prove a difficult thing to be done, and if it were done, it might have no beneficial effect upon the reduction of the public burdens. The proposition reminded him of the bed of Procrustes, to which every body was to be adapted —those who were shorter than it were to be stretched out to its full dimensions, and those who were too long were to be cut short, so as to reduce them within its limits. If this principle were applied to public officers, the Hon. Member would find that if he could contract the salaries of some, he would be obliged to enlarge the salaries of of others. But perhaps his Hon. Friend did not know what had been already done in the way of reduction. The fact was, that almost every recommendation and principle of reduction laid down in the reports of Committee% or by commissions of inquiry, had been carried into effect to a very great extent. Practical retrenchment as far as possilsle, and an abolition of sinecures and reversions, bad been recommended by a Committee that sat in 1797 ; and these recommendations were acted on to the fullest ex. tent practicable.' With respect to sinecures which had been formerly considered the remuneration of public ser vices, they were altogether abolished. With respect to the Wardenship of the Cinque Ports, the office was allowed to exist, but the salary formerly attached to it had ceased. The office of Governor of the Isle of Wight had been abolished ; and those of the two Chief Justices in Eyre has ceased. The clerkship of the Rolls in Ireland and in Eng land was abolished, and the office of Auditor of the Exchequer in the former country had also ceased. The same place in England would be abolished as soon as a vacancy oc curred, and the salary (4,0001. a-year) saved to the country. Twenty-three other offices had been abolished since 1807, making in all thirty-two sinecure and rever sionary off pleoes that had ceased since the recommenda tion of the Cormnittee. These steps had been followed up by a regulation, that the duties of public offices should be performed at the loweet possible cost to the public. What he had to address to the House on this subject involved matter of detail, which, however, it was necessary for the House to know before it came to a decision on the subject. The Government, attending to the recommendations of Coramitteesand Commissions of Inquiry on the subject of the collection and management of the Revenue, had endea voured to make economy and retrenchment the basis of all its proceedings. The inquiries that were instituted had ended in the abolition of the office of Comptroller of Barracks, which was transferred to the Ordnance Department —of the office of Commissioner of the Transport Board, which was transferred to the Navy Victualling Board. The office of Commissary-in-Chief was transferred to the Treasury. The office of Stock-keeper General had been abolished. The Board of Customs in Scotland and Ire land was abolished, as were also the Boards of Excise in Scotland and Ireland, and the Boards of Stamps in both those countries. Of all these different Boards, the number of Commissioners had been 59 ; they were now reduced ' to 28. This had been done with no other desire than to diminish the public expenditure; for that purpose, thirty-one Commissionershipe, with salaries of from 1,0001. to 1,4001. a-year, had been abolished. Vnder such circumstances, he was justified in repeating that Government had attended to every recommendation of ecanotny that was consistent with the effective trans action of public business. The offices he had . men tioned had been abolished previous to 1820. In 1821, an address was moved for reductions in the public expenditure, in consideration of the increase that had taken place in salaries since 1797. With very few excep tions, this proposition embraced every ohject which the Hon. Baronet now proposed to effect. He thought he should be able to satisfy the House, that this was not a new subject—that it had been the desire ef Government to adopt the scale of expenditure of 1797—that they bad proceeded towards the eccomplishment of that object, and though he could not say it had been fully accomplished, yet, looking at the difference in the extent of - public business now and in 1797, he was of opinion that the sa laries of public offiocre had been brought as near as pos sible to the scale of 1797. It was natural for him to begin with, the department to which he himself belonged ; and if the House would allow him to state what had beep clone in that department in the way of reduction, he should do so. Time roles laid down by the Treasury With respect to all future offices were te the following effect, viz.:— That every office should be restored, with respect to nun:. bets nod emoluments, to the standard of 1797, unless in cases where there should he some adequate cause for depart ing from this rule. That where, from increase of-1)1114m s , or the necessity o f gree t er d es p a t c h, it shoteld I necessary e g m rem il lui n em e l l , " s li um:l l ; to enlarge the numbers and increeie officers, the increase thus reecle Omni,' be assimilated to the salaries of therm oincers who hell similar situations in in 1821.—(Cheers.) t existing l,l,re. i i n s no longer necessary, or capable of o ffice should accordingly be abolished or reduced. Such were the orders made by the Treasury but ' l .l' 7 i:y 7. wer T e b o a :mt if co a r i m ' fi ' nd ffic t e e , t h ey eeteroled over all public of cps ill the Home De ierrtment, the Colonial, Pepytmot, the customs, the I:79:islirotuitidelibteacome Exciee, in short, over the whole range of pvblie offices _.e.(Flear, and cheers.)--aNdw the House would surely Wcarryingow that this was into effect the address of June. 1821. Now let him c a ll their attention to the result of ' 'lleee new regulations in the payment of public officers. Under the old establishment the minimum expense of the Treasury was 46,0001. a year, and the maximum 64,000/. a year. Under the new. , regulation the minimum Wes 11,000/. a year, and the maximum 48,0001. a year. The reduction, therefore. under the new regulation, sees ae 18,000/. to 61,000/., or, in other words, 30 per cent. —(Cheers.)—The same principle had been, as he before ebsereed, carried into all the offices. But let him explain how the new regulation had operated on the different cleseca of persons in the Treasury department. The effect of it on tile salaries of the junior clerks was a reduction of 26 psr cent. ; on the salaries of the assistant clerks, 40 per cent. ; on the salaries. of the chief clerks, 20 per ceio. What, however, had been the effeet of this regulation on the sale ries of the superior offieers? Why, by a comparison be that they were greater' in the former di in in the latertweets their salaries in 1797 and 1821, it wou ld b e f oun d year ; and, consequently, that if - the proposition of his lion. Friend should be adopted, it would cut off from the salaries of those who could not afford to part with any thing, while it would increase the salaries of the very pee eons whose emoluments his Hen. Friend - was most anxious to reduce. In 1797, the salary of - the First Lord et* the Junior Lords of the Treasury w as , as now , 1,220/ . Th e Treasury was, as now, 5,000/. a y ear; so t h at et . this salary of the Secretary of the Treasury in 1769, 1770, and 1771, was 3,7001. ; in 1797 the salary amounted to 5,0001,` He should observe, however, that this sum in cluded salary And emoluments. It was reduced to 4,00C1. in 1800, and by the operation of the Treastiry regulation s of 1821,- it was further reduced to 3,500!.—the amount at which it now etood.—CHear.)—Now, as he held the t Edit• of Secretary to the Treasury, and as he, fur from being loser, should be a gainer by the alteration proposed by hi 4 lion. Friend, he thought that he might be allowed to raise his voice against the reduction of the salaries of these who could not afford to part with any portion 01 their in come.—(dear, hear.)—This being the position of the Treasury by the adoption of the minute of 1821, it would I.e only fair to compare the labour of that department in 1797 and 1821. In 1797 there were registered at the Treasury 4,600 papers; aid, in 1821, there Were regi stered no less than 27,000 papers. Now when it was re collected that this was done by individuals who received only the same salaries as in 1797, and by subordinate officers, whose salaries were leis, but whose labour was ten times greater than the labour was in 1797, be 'dial think that he had made out a case which would induce the House to deliberate long before they came to the resolu tion of depriving an industrious and Valuable body of men of any part of their fair remuneration.—(Hear.)—Th e same effects had been produced by the new regulations in the offices of the Secretaries of State. In It it 1797 the k lacy of a Secretary of State was 6,000/. was now the same, but in 1782 it had been 8,000/.• The salary of an under Secretary in 1797 was 2,000/. It was afterwards reduced to 1,500/. ; again, it was raised to 2,000/. ; then to 2,500/. ; arid, by the Treasury minute of 1821, it was once more reduced to 2,oool.—the amount at which it now stood, and above which it could not be increased. A similar reduction had taken place in the office of the Secretary at War ; and there was a cm ions circumstance connected with this- office, to which he begged to Ball the attention of the House, because it proved how very unjust it would be to adopt the pre position of hie Honourable Friend. The number of persons employed in that office h a d b een i ncrease d since 1797, while the amount of salari es h a d been dims wished.—(Hear, hear.)—ln 1797, the number of persons employed in that office was 58, and the amount of salaries 36,000!. In 1829, the number of persons was 99, and the amount of salaries 33,000/.—( Hear, bear.)—The deputy-secretary, in 1797, bad asalary of 2 500/., and per quisites, which amounted to 14,900/. The three chi e f clerks, had salaries of 3,0001. a year each. The salaries of these clerks had been reduced to 1,200!. to 1,0001. and to 900/. a year ; and the salary of the deputy had been reduced to 3,000/.—(Hear, hear. )—ln every other depart , ment, and expecially in the extensive departments of the customs anal excise, large reductions had also been made. Let him take one department as a' sample, Since NIS the total number of custom-house officers reduced, in the United Kingdom, was 2,511, and the amount of salaries • reduced was 237,678!. Now it often happened, in thee reductions, that some were superannuated for life, and that others were placed on what was called the redundant list, Out of the 2,511 officers dismissed, 373 had been ate. lected from the redundant list for various employments, and by these means a saving to the amount of 37,0001. had been . effected. To show the principle on which the Government had acted, it him call the attention of Honourable Members to a perticular fact. Whoa the Board - of Customs was abolished in Scotland, a gentleman connected with that establishment retired on a superannuation pension of 750/. a year, It happened that the situation of Comptroller of the Customs at - Que bec became vacant. This patronage belonged, of coulee, to the Duke of Wellington, and it was natural to suppaso that he would exercise his right of nomination in the usual • way. The Noble- Duke, however, 'did not ; for no tanner was it intimated to the Duke - of Wellington that this gen • aletuan, who had retired on the pension of 7501. a yiar, was fit to fill the vacant situation at Quebec, than tho Duke waved his claim, and appointed the gentleman to that situation ; the salary of which was 1,500/,—(Clwers.) Thus the superannuation pension of 750/, was saved to the country.—(Cheers.)---This was net the only instance in which the Noble Duke had acted in this manner. The very next week, - by a similar appointment, •the Noble 'Duke saved the • country 1,0001. a year,—(Cheers.) —A certain office falling 'variant, - the Duke of Wellington again waved his claim to the patronage, and appointed to the si tuation a gentleman whose pension was a charge upon the country to the amount of from 700/. to 800/. a y eas , Many of the gentlemen whom he was addressing well knew that the same principle was acted upon in the other departments of the State, and that the Government, fits from wishing to extend their patronage, were always glad to contract it, if by so doing they coold effect a saving to the country.—(Hear, hear.)—fie would not pursue the reductions which had been effected in the department of the Customs. • Only, let it' be recollected, that though there were more persons employed in that departtnent now than formerly, yet the amount of salaries was less. Under the old system it often happened'thet a landing -waiter had a greater salary than the Commiseioners had now. Tne end of the old system wes to collect to the greatest amannr, and to conceal the ins i de of collecting; the object of the new system was fairness and openness, by which the merchant gained advantage, while the poldie revenue was more seem e.—(Sorne cries of " No, no.")—Such, he would contend, was the object and the effect of the new system. With respect to the proposition of his Honourable Friend s let Leine call on the House to roe collect that the persons against whom his Honourable Friend's project was directed, would not and, could not judge by the value of money, but le): the labour they performed for the salaries they reeeived. Whether those salaries were or were nut a fair remunera tion for the labour they performed, they could only aieertain by their weekly bi i lls, Ile had shown that a re duction of 30 per cent. had been effected on the salaries of public officers since 1821. Would any Hon. 'Wernher show him that a similar reduction had taken place in the necessaries of life? He thought not; for, in 1822 i the price of a leg of mutton was 6d. per lb. ; iu 1830 s it was 8(1. per lb.,,—(Cries of " No, no," and laksghter): in 1822, the price of a shoulder of mutton was 5(1, per lb., and in 1830, it was 7d. per lb.—(Lund cries of "Nn, no," end much laughter.) He believed that this, though 'rota parliamentary account, War, Wrrect. However, the reduc tion which he had shown to have taken place on the sale ties of public offeeris could not be denied. That the busi ness of the public offices was much better conducted now then at any antecedent period, Wasso evident, that he would, not trouble the Howie with one word upon that ;übjete,..... After the case he had made out, lie might now sic clown, but lie wished to allude to one other point a his Hon, Friend's speech. His lion. Friend not not believe the statement that distress did not prevail in Ireland. Now he had a great stake in that . eauntry. His first and last wish must be for the prosperity of Ireland, and it wee iist• eight of the Session, respecting pos , ible for him to sin has eyes to the real condition of that LiftwOok contradict the Statement The How Mie7.o4beurd• country, be that cettedition what it might. ale was, there- Made by his Right au thority of Mr.amiLdatauluscohet,hattliceoemmtninee4n:iablaallelert, titre, sliedwithsurprise when lie heard the Mee Member for 1 mat thirty years; the condition of IreliMl that rents in Hon. "Friend the Chancellor of ek e Exchequer, on the f l eet fl:ardLnleuvleetrileselnanbdettheirmpaselidf hail t t l h t e e trading i s : a in ce. r; . tieity had never been more alivo in that country than et present. The Hon. Member for Clare, whom Ike was very glad to see he that liousifl, and who seemed to taste in n vi l i tte; w c t on l 7 . been taken as en oracle on this subject, gave a very cncie tilts reason for saying that distress existed in Ireland. Th e e lion. Member for Clare had told them that be knew, lees tfi professionalee In g ee t ) 1 experience, ee his professional experientee, that three provineee 11"41.4;1:1 fiss %bu w (i c r a . Dawson) u t s 7. l J o t 0 1 1 pro experience were greatly dietressed. Now, upon that tiora•Aleie.be7s dente ; but give him leave to tell she Hen sleet s young , . c when rri Turk. nal fur beliere n of the lout the that the True ; it inde and the weat.ion hat tho on, have et rid of raetiee, tied, not rontains :pedi,nt adupt I happy mr, and Greeks, !quence 'ountry, ted Oat of Mr. itten by Talley f policy even ; alter Bill to no and r Bi er~r►tty 'om the sat the ied and iii 511- Jrayed, iupply, ato the I for a t ;wet al. on had Alta be ar.) tr, the n P:y- )m the wu of ud re- ey, in ed the VVen eepted a pa of the m the letd. Ay the VvAtry 111 tbe City ►mend lather irscity 'wend the' 80Illle Hon. which 'l' - ettbid louljt ie roved, roved. oved ; t bye- it the never inJits ;y, to t was t e Sa- Tsons -- again could that r for 1 not t cx- rhich his nion, the e the that t the defer sided I buf fleet-