The Sun. — London, England, 1833-06-25 00:00:00

r• 4 St: 4'7 I .E'~tttt~' ~ +; ke sib t! 1, : ). • ; - gm* rt : tas ettiks.ouguk am in rarnament I for In !. gut .s registrarAere pOyefeited by age or other Infirmity fromperfierming.the dettetinf his of fi ce, and yet did not, r !mu), raksiff - ill, Ire could not birenicived t ! except hyatt addreeaTemn i Parliament tit the 'Crosine ' • 'te e Loud. LYNDHURST:—Why should the registraiefiefe elii;COurt be placer:Chi a -different - situation from thatelif the registrars thither Courts ? Noble and Learned Friend had not given even 'a plausible answer to that question, and he should, therefore, suggest to him to give way upon this point, otherwise it would show the 'spirit in which his Noble and Learned Friend was desirous of discussing this Bill.—(Hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the last remark of his Noble and Learned Friend might as well have been spared, as he had all through these discussions de clared himself anxious to adopt any real amendments which might be suggested to him. He could assure his Noble and Learned Friend that these reg istr ar s had higher functions to perform than he seem e d to be awar of; for instance, in the bankruptcy b us i ness th e i r names e must, in some cases, be inserted in the fiat directed to the judges in ordinary. In other cases, where the chief judge was absent, they would be empowered, for certain pro ceedings, to act as local judges. The registrar's na me along w must, therefore, be in ser t e d i n th e comm i ss i on • h that of the judg e . If hi s N o bl e an d Learned Friend s could point out to him any mode (save that given by this clause) of removing a registrar rendered incompetent b y age or infirmity, before that registrar misdemeane him - s lf, he (the Lord Chancellor) would agree to strike - out the clause. He had known instances of office , ; r and of judges too,—who, being too old for the r ee:formarce of their duties, and yet not long enough at their situations to • Ithem e to their e posse ssion of entitle retiring p could not be induced to resign until t' pensions, strong hint that Parliament had ney received a pretty the power to remove them.—( Hear.) Lord WYNFORD said see " punu this point, that he re s trong was his impression the registrars" be struts' e ould move that the words Lord LYNDHURS' a out of the clause. these registrars into said that if the Bill really turned Friend had made to judges, the objection which his Noble did not think that this clause fell to the ground ; but he was a slight to b . the Bill went exactly that length. Why by ixalting this e cast upon those very respectable officers, were as his N new officer above their heads ?If the law officers were, able and Learned Friend stated, that these why not am not removeable without an address to the Crow n, The LO end the law in this respect altogether?--(Hear.) we i ght of RD CHANCELLOR really could not see the these objections, nor did he think that his No ble and Leer ned Friend would have attached any importance to ticai , had he not come down to the House as the poli ineeee_Of ponent of the Law Reform Bills introduced by the t Government. He should be sorry if the registrars of the old Courts, whom be admitted to be most excellent and e aluable public functionaries, should feel i t a s a sli g ht h Pun themselves to have the registrars of these new Courts plea el above them. To prevent that feeling from being gene rated in their minds, he would agree to leave the words 4 4 61 mr le registrars" out of this clause ; but he must insist on rete e n i ng "the judges." • I ,ord WYNFORD had no objection to the words " the jud p i es" being retained in the clause. Lord LYNDHURST defended himself with great troth against the charge brought against him by the _Jec rd Chancellor of being the political opponent of the law e i forms of the present Government. He thought that h r I Noble and Learned Friend, in making that charge • ;ainst him, had acted towards him both unjustly and un • ratefully. His Noble and Learned Friend would recoi -1 eet that when he (the Lord Chancellor) first showed him (Lord Lyndliuret) the batch of Bills respecting law reform . now on the table of that and the other House of Path,- inent, he (Lord Lyndhurst) had told him (Lord Brougham) that of those Bills there were some which he highly appreciated. The Limitation of Actions Bill, fo , • tanco, he highly approved ; and, as a proof of it, he had off, red I its Noble and Learned Friend to conduct it through the louse. On what grounds his Noble and Learned Friend ✓ epresented him as sitting on the opposition benches as the elitical opponent of the law reform Bills of the pie sent lovernment he could not for his life conceive. First of be did not sit upon the opposition bench at all; and, e next place, he Lad chosen his present seat in the in U. e for the purpose of showing that in opposing this Hous was standing by himself, and not acting as the Bill In f a party. agent o Duke of RICHMOND suggested that the Noble The I taken the seat which he occupied in order that Lord bat return with greater facility, when he pleased, he might ches of opposition. to the ben RD CHANCELLOR reminded his Noble and The LO end that the five Bills, to which he had alluded Learned Fr. •nment batch of Bills, were not, in point of as the Govet rent Bills. They were brought into Parlia fact, Govertai quence of the recommendation of the Com- Neat In coose sinted to inquire into the state of the law luissioners app eiperty. Having, however, been so intro affecting Teal P :Id undoubtedly have the best support of e t eee est, they ' O linisters. In point of fact, this Bill was "eel s 'Majesty's ' vent Bill now upon the table. the only Govertx_ URST thought his Noble and Learned Lord LYNilik n guilty of a great error. He did not Friend had l a st bet 4; e11 from „ the lips of his Noble and often forg et what mar to this Rill, be recollected el earned Fri end s and reb their- notice, his Noble and we ll that, in it Aroducing it to . ;nttoduce it, not Learene d Frleeid had distinctly sate, 1 • —.sting upon • s Gewernment measure, but as a e no „ ssure s.itioo. ,r a oy ind i a ,ldual responsibility." In give og h is o pp '-st ttherefore, tte this Bill, he was not actin '4* es the polite; his Ma eat 's opponent of the law reforms proposed b Y i Ministers. Now , let their Lordships mark the different -way in which the other Law Reform Bills ca me et present before their Lordships. The y arose out of thk recom men (lateen of a Commission a pp ointed b y the Crot vn to revise the l a w respecting real property ; and when a G overninent held that Authorized Et commission to revise the law, he through Government to be bound to brin g into and carry Pailiam "'ri ,ent t h e Bills which the Commissioners re"en mended. In point of fact, the Government was g this at the present moment. The LORD CHANCELLOR was happy to info. em their Lordships, that if his Noble and Learned Friers continued to act upon the principles which he had just laid d ea l% he should put an end, by what he was about to say, to hi s (Lord Lyndhurst's) opposition to this measure, which wag - now, in the strictest sense of the word, a Government measure.—(llear, hear.) His Noble and Learned Friend had said that he (the Lord Chancellor) had originally proposed it as his own indiv idual measure. True, be did so prop ose it in April, 1830, in the House of Com mons, and again in December, 1830, in that House. On that latter oecasion he had stated distinctly that it was his own individual measure, brought in on his own responsi bility, and without any concert with any of his colleagues in the Administration. !dark the difference now. Fut merly tie bad stated that he bad not t mmuni hadco c municated it to them, and that it bad obtained their con currence.--(Hear, hear.) But their Lordships would perhaps recollect that there was a wide difference between Isis former Bill and his present. His former Bill Iva- much more extensive, and he would freely confess that if he had bad tobring in a Bill of his own, it would have gime much further than this Bli! wa s intended to go. He had for merly proposed to give to these local courts a jurisdiction over all suits where the cau s e of action did not exceed 1001 , and also to give a further right of ettlieei• So we understood the Noble Lord , who was pot very eudible, to say.) Alterations had been suggested upon these 1. 1 ! by the Common Law Commissioners, to whom his original Bill bad been referred for consideration and revision. When it was so altered as to meet not only with their support, but also with the unanimous support of his colleagues in the administration, he had brought it forward as a Go vernment measure. As such it was proposed last year— ' as such it had been known for the list four or live months, and as nothing else.—(Hear, hear.) He trusted that be Lad now removed all the doubts of his Noble and Leeroed Friend as to the Bill being a Government measure, and having removed them, be trueted that, as neither his Noble and Learned Friend nor any ; of the Noble Lords by whom he was surrounded could be influenced by any party feelings against the Government, he should have et.eir sup port. He was certain of having his Noble and Lear,rked Friend's support to this, wh ch was, strictly speaking a Government measure.—(Hear, hear.) The Duke of CUMBERLAND rose to address a few words to their Lordships, but, we are sorry to say, that in consequence of the very low tone in which his Iloycl Iligb- ne se spoke, he was scarcely heard in the gallery. We ,un derstood him to say that he did not mean to deny that he was an opponent of the present Government, but he should be dammed of himself, and he felt that be should be de. grading hischaracetr, if he could allow party spirit to di rect his vote on a measure of great general Hod invional importance. He proteetA against this measure n-ia.e dis cussed as a party measure. Lord LYNDHURST assured tlie H ouse that if his Noble and Learned Friend could only zatisly him that this was a proper measure, it ehoule bevy his support without any regard to the quarter from whence it emanated; but it certainly. would not have his support otherwise. He assure 1 their Lordships that neither lie nor any of his friends haft treated this Bill is a party measure. It was true that at a meeting held previously to the second reading of it 'hey I ad ee termined not to divide rpinst ti,e principle i and to that deteiminatien they had come upon this prior ; 1,, alit ;the Bill was recommended to the House by a Commission ;acting under the authority of his Majesty. If he and others (had considered it as a party measure, he could assure their Lordships that the result of a division would not have i been such as would have given his Majesty's Ministers any satisfaction, and of that no persons were more aware than his Majesty's Ministers themselves. '• The LORD CHANCELLOR—These discussions tend very much to raise, or rather to sustain, the high character which this House maintains out of doors.—(Vehement cheers from the Treasury Beach.) I have never yet been accused of showing any want of respect to this House— I have never yet been accused of attempting to lower its dignity. I have heard of such charges being made against his Majesty's Ministers, but nothing can have so great a tendency to produce that effect, as the words which have fallen from my Noble and Learned Friend within the last few minutes.—(Hear, hear.) Whether they will produce that effect I cannot tell ; but sure I am they have that tendency.—(Hear, hear.) Lord LYNDHURST (intertupting)—l have been strangely misunderstood, if anything I have s lid deserves the reproof which I have just received from my Noble and Learned Friend. Are such things as party feelings unknown to this House ? I ask whether the Noble Lords who come here nightly, and range themselves on the opposite benches, do not act upon party motives ? (Order, order.) Lord HOLLAND—I speak to order ; and in so doing I am compelled myself to commit a breach of order ; for I must request your Lor,lBl,ips to let me address you sitting, as my infirmities prevent me from addressing you standing. Speaking, then, to the point of order, I must say that a more disorderly, a more irregular, and a more unparlia mentary conversation than that which has taken place during the last ten minutes, I have never heard since I had the honour of a seat in this House.—(Hear.) I have heard of party and of party motives in this House, where, if we act as honest men by our country, we are bound to consider the public interests only. It is irregular to allude to any motives, and certainly most irregular to allude to party motives in this place.—(Hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord says that he never considered this as a party measure. He tells us that for certain reasons he and his friends deter mined not to divide against the second readiug of it ; be adds, that if they had divided against it, and had acted together as a party, he knows what the result would have been in that case.—(Hear.) Now, it is most irregular to describe a measure, brought in avowedly upon public grounds, as a party measure ; and to say bow the House would have dealt with it had they considered it to be a party measure or not a party measure, is to use language which I am sure would nut have been listened to fifteen years ago in this place.—(Hear.) A more certain mode of disparaging the character of this House in the estima tion of the public cannot be found than in our describing ourselves the Bills introduced for the public benefit as party measures.—(Hear.) The speech of the Noble Lord, which I rose—l beg pardon—which I speak to interrupt, appealed to the existence of party motives in this House. Is that parliamentary language or is it not?—(Hear.) Is it even consistent with the question which we are now pretending to discuss ? The question before the House at present is, whether the registrars shall be removeable from their office by address from the two Houses of Parlia ment, or whether au Act of Parliament shall be passed to enable the judges who preside in the courts of which they are ministerial officers to remove them, whenever they become incompetent to discharge the duties of them from age or other infirmity—for as yet we have had no answer to that point. Lord LYNDHURST agreed with the Noble Baron who had just down, that the sooner an end was put to this irregular conversation the better it would be for all parties. He would only remind their Lordships, in his own justification, how this discussion had originated. His N.ible and Learned Friend h ,d charged him with opposing this Bill as the political opponent of the law reforms of the Government. His Noble and Learned Friend had said that he opposed it on party principles ; that he denied, and in his denial he had defended himself to the best of his ability. He appealed to the speech which he had made against the committal of the Bill to prove that he was not influence', and be had then slid that he was not in fluenced in his opposition to it by party principles, but by general considerations of state policy and expediency, Lord WYNFORD would only say, that from what had just passed in the House, it must bequite clear that party had nothing whatever to do with its discussions.—(A laugh.) The amendment of Lord WYNFORD, for leaving out " the registrars," was then agreed to, and the clause, as amended, was ordered to stand part of the Bill. The '7th, Bth, 9th, 10th, and 11th clauses were agreed to without discussion. On the 12th clause, which defines who are to be the prac titioners in the Courts of Judges in ordinary, being r e ad, Loft] LYNDHURST asked whether in these Courts barristers were to be opposed by attorneys ? If so, it would lead to great confusion, as he had seen in his own experience at the Quarter Sessions. His Lordship, who had never practised in the minor courts of the coun.ry, might not be aware of this circumstance. He therefore requested him to consider this point, and perhaps upon consideration he would see the propriety of striking out that part of the clause which gave to attorneys the power of practising as advocates in these Courts. The LORD CHANCELLOR said that perhaps the clause was liable to this objection ; but he had no doubt that wherever barristers were opposed to attorneys, bar risters would soon obtain the command of the Court. Lord LYNDHURST knew a Court in which the bar ..ieters refused to wear their gowns and wigs, so long as atto, -neya were allowed to p'ead there. The magistrates the attorneys, and the consequence was, that at x all the barristers appeared in their gown s s. Befo ,4t this clause was disposed of, he wished ehlde( the c next sitti: l g •ind wig amount of fees payable to the officers to know whether the these Courts was to be regulated according to the scale contained in the former Bill ? The LORD CHANCELLOR said the fees were left to b. settled from time to time by the judges of the courts at Westminster. Lord LYNDHURST—Am I to understand, then, that Parliament is to exercise no judgment with respect to the amount of these fees ? The LORD CHANCELLOR—Yes. Lord LYNDHURST objected to the power given to the ;udges of fining attorney@ to any amount for improper conj . , , t without the intervention of a jury. The L ORD CHANCELLOR admitted that the power given to the fudges was very large, but it was deemed ne cessary, in oi.as -r to repress improper practices on the part , if a certain clas,' of practitioners who might resort to These new courts, as well as to prevent parties, from a spirit of hostility to the p r :sent measure, throwing ob-tacTes had and impediments in the w.'v of its execution. He had ha himself an opportunity of kn,lwing the virulence and vio lence with which the first Bii.l on this subject had been att :eked by certain individuals w::o bad gone the length of sending circular letters to actorney 2 in all parts of the country, with the object of depriving b;:u of bus i ness at the bar, his only crime being that he was We author of a 1 measure which, among other regulations, empowered the judge in ordinary to suspend an attorney, guilty of improper conduct, from practising. He had, however, gone on unmoved by these owls, and the alteration which appeared in the present Bill had been made, not from any yielding on the subject, but because it was thought that a more effectual control would be exercised over these parties by giving the judge the power of fining, instead of suspending. The clause was then agreed to. ci a :..cs from i e to 18, inciusive, were agreed to, with the exception of 15 and 16, which were postponed for future consideration. a b o i;;Liing the jurisdiction of Courts On the 19th clause , of Conscience, being read, Lord LYNDHURST and Lord WY/groan e i!.jected that the clause would have the effect of abolishing many vaivable courts, which were the property Of individnah, The LORD CHANCELLOR said the bill did not abolish those courts, but on the contrary allowed them a concurrent jurisdiction,. lie intended to propose an amendment, saving from the operation of the clause " all courts exercising jurisdiction derived by virtue of grants from the Crown, from the Ducby of Cornwall, or from the Duchy of Lancaster." At th e saggestion of Lord LYNDHURST, the words" or by prescription, Pr by virtue of any Act of Parliament," were added, and the clause agreed to. Clauses from the 20th to the th, kiciveive, were then agreed to, with the exception of the 25th, postponed, The House having resumed, the CH Aittmaii obtained lcavo to sit ; again to-tnort;o c..n.".4.djourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, JuNJ 24. The SPEAKER took the chair at five minutes after tivr. Sir W. CHAYTOR moved for a return of the number of Lu1u1,34 bankrupts from the year 1824 to the present time, with the account of debts proved, and the rate of dividends paid by each. Mr. O'CONNELL wished to know from some one of bis 31aloty's ithnisters, whether the Recorder of the tatty of London was to supersede the prerogative of the Crown; and whether it was true, as report, d, that alter his Majesty had been graciously pleased to grant a respite to a per-on named Cox, the Recorder had actually issued a warrant for his Mi. FINN reminded th 11.11. and Learned Grath:ma/a that a motion stood for to-morrow for the discussion of the subject. Mr. O'CONNELL would not, under these circum stances, press the matter. Mr. HUME reminded the House that his motion for the adoption of the recommendation of the Committee relative to the proposed erection of a new House of Com mons stood fir Tuesday week.—,—(Hear, bear.) He hoped a full attendance would be given; and if the resolution was agreed to, be should then move an humble address to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to direct the erection of a suitable house; and that a vote of between 35 0001. and 40,0001. should be placed at his dispoial, for that purpose. The estimates varied from 15,0001. to 50,0001., but be be lieved between 25,0001. and 30,0001. would be quite soil kat. Mr. O'CONNELL moved for the return of the num ber of stamps issued to each of the newspapers in Ireland during each of the quarters from January 5, 1832, to January 5, 1833. Mr. COBBETT gave notice that on Wednesday he should present a petition from certain of his Majesty's subjects, complaining that they were heavily taxed to support a system of police who, in fact, were spies hired to instigate the people to crime for the purpose of benefiting thereby; and praying the House to inquire into the fact, and redress the grievance. . On the motion of Mr. Secretary STANLEY, the House then resolved into a Committee of the whole House on the Church Temporalities Bill. Mr. BERNAL, in the chair, put clause 148. The 148, 149, 150, 151, and 152, being the last five clauses, were respectively agreed to. Mr. STANLEY then proposed that the postponed clauses should be respectively read. The 32, 39, and 41 clauses were then agreed to, with the addition of cer tain provisoes proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary for the Colonies. On the question that clause 54 should stand part of the Bill, Mr. HUME said that the 147th clause was the only one worth attending to by that House or by the country ; and now an amendment was proposed by the Right Hon. Secretary (Mr. Stanley) to the 54th clause, the purport of which he (Mr. Hume) did not clearly under,tand. He wished to know if the money raised by selling in per petuity of the church lands, was to go to the maintenance of the Established Church? Mr. STANLEY said, by the 147th clause the pur chase of perpetuities was to be left to separate uses from the rest of the church property. It was thought a distinction should be made between that and other church property, which was since thought not to be well founded. It was thought necessary not to affirm or deny the power of Parliament to deal with church property, but simply to remove the distinction between the two sorts of property. Mr. HUME—If he understood the Right Hon. Se cretary aright, this Bill aught to be called a Bill to add three millions in value to the income of the church.— (Loud cheers.) He appealed to the House and to the country, if it was not too much, that instead of relief by a reformed House of Commons, and less expenditure, they were to be burdened by this Act with a heavier payment to the Church..—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was an attempt, by bringing in such a Bill as the one to reform the Church, at positive delusion. A sinecure church, already too rich, was to have the disposal in perpetuity, by this Bill, of land that before this time could only be sold for the life-time of the incuinlient.—(Hear, hear.) It was changing a time lease into a fee simple.—(Hear.) He protested against proceeding in the absence of the Chancellor of the Exchequer ; against voting three millions of money for the support of a sinecure Church, until the Chancellor of the Exchequer who, he always considered, was a plain, direct, honest man, should explain this change of sentiment, which was so diametrically opposite to what he had before stated in the House of Commons. They had relinquished that part of the Bill to which the country had so earnestly looked, and on which the House had depended, and until that Noble Lord himself declared that he concurred in this change, and that, instead of re ducing the expense, three millions should be voted for the purpose of keeping up an establishment which was odious to the people of Ireland, and so expensive to England, as it cost 20,000 military in that country, whereas, as in 1792, 10,000 would be sufficient;—until the Noble Lord ex plained this, he would resist the present vote. He there fore begged leave to move that the Chairman do leave the Chair. Mijar BEAUCLERK said, the Hon. Member for Mid dlesex had forestalled him in what he was going to say. He strongly deprecated the flinching course of Ministers, and would divide with the Hon. Member for Middlesex. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY denied the possibility of a new value through the medium of an Act of Parliament. If such a principle were admitted—for example, in the case of canals—it would shake the whole system of property in the country. Lord DUNCANNON said, that in voting for leaving out the 147th clause, he had not done so with the view of taking front Parliament the appropriation of church pro perty. Hod he considered that that would have been the effect of it, he should not have done so. His purpose was, viewing the abolition of church cess as a great benefit, to provide out of the funds to be derived from the sale of church lands, for the first fruits and for the abolition of the church cess. The surplus—if there should he such—on a future occasion would still be in the appro priation of Parliament; or rather, it could not be disposed of by the Commissioners or any other body, without the sanction and approbation of Parliament. Mr. HUNIE again protested against the measure. Mr. STANLEY strongly protested against the inter pretation put upon the proceeding by the Hon. Metnl , er. The alteration proposed by Government was precisely a transfer from clause 147 to clause 54, so as to make the latter complete, without any exception which might pre vious!y h..ve been contained in it. Mr. 11UME said that the Right Hon. Gentleman seemed very anxious to delude the House about this altera tion, which, as be before said, was an attempt to add enormously to the already enormous receipts of the Church. Mr. STANLEY said the Hon. Member did not seem to have read the clause—(A laugh)—and he would, there fore, do so. The Right Hon. Secretary accordingly read the clause, and then repeated, that the object of the altera tion was to transfer from the 147th clause, the exception named in the clause under consideration, and to place the perpetuity purchase fund on precisely the same footing with other funds. Mr. HUME saw no recognition in the clause of any right of Pirliament to interfere with Church land. Sir R. INGLIS would never deny the right of Parlia ment to interfere with it, if Ire could be convinced that other property was equally liable to Parliamentary juris• diction. All he wanted was, that Church property should be as sacred as other Corporation property. Some Hon. Members talked very largely about the enormities of Church cess, but he would show them how " one plain fact would put them down." From the official returns, it appeared, that in the county of Nottingham, it was not more than 2: 1 2 -d. an acre, and in no place above ls. 6d, Mr. O'CONNELL agreed with the Hon. Member that Parliament was not called upon to meddle with the spiri tualities of the church—(Hear)—but be did think it very expedient that :he House should have jurisdiction over the overgrown temporalities, the pounds, shillings, and pence, part of the business. It was not proper that the House should be relieved from their cares, and he was, therefore, most surprised and grieved at finding the most material part of the Bill thos cut off. The Bill, as it now stood, would eff et no change, would afford n o e ff e ctu a l r e medy against the great curse of freland. Talk of morbid appe tite fur robbery and plunder—(Hear, hear)—there were several, many instances where . the utmost severity had been practised by clergymen in recovering large tithes. A curious thing occurred ip Illexf7d :—A clerk had been aFwirtiiieeerfanoar paid 10/ a year for ringing the bell ; the bell broke down, . and the clergyman, in his generosity, increased the fellow's szlary to 151. for not ringing the bell.—(A laugh.) This was a very ;air specimen of the appropriation of church property. In the paro.h of I..dsheda, worth 1,0001. a year, there was not a single Protestut.—Cffear,, hear, hear.) The Hon. anti Learned Member, after instancing several other cases of a similar nature, then began to read his amendment, but was stopped by Mr. secretary STALEY, wbo trggpsted that it would be more appropriate in the b4th clause, when it !night be acceded to. Jr. O.CONNELL would then postpone his amendment. Dr. LUSHINGTON contended that no injury whatever has been done to the i3ril by the 147th clause being trans ferred to the 54th clause. There was no snrOus at present, and the appropriation of any surplus . which might arise after :.,irtain speciAc services • were satis fi ed, would be appro kndepeuuoc.t pf that clause. It did not priated eritirs4 Lord J. ttLISF-.4:40 Wit3ho to say ? as th e Hon. Mem berin spy manner the prip.cipie .4 the ipl, it, wish that his Noble tibleidCdtengcehllaodr o ' f " th e efEttequer might by present the unotipn was made fur restori ng th e 147th clause. that he had had PPlnffillnteations with his Noble Friend on the subject, both before the amendment was proposed, and after it was carried, and his Noble Friend expressed his perfect satihrat3ion with the vote. The Hon. Member fl. 'Middlesex would be sure to see his Noble Friend in tbat House, either ou bringing up the report or on the third reading, and therefore he hoped that the Hon. Member would not persevere. Mr. HUME expressed his extreme regret to hear that the Noble Lord (Althorp) was satisfied with the course adopted ; but, under the circumstances mentioned by the Noble Lord, he would not persevere. _ . . Mr, SE{AW stated that the former amount of churches had been supplied to the extent of six-sevenths. He denied that the clergy ever levied their lay tithes. Mr. O'CONNELL quoted the case of Dr. Ryan, who had levied his lay tithes. At Fermoy, also, the clergy man had taken the two species of tithes. As for building churches, he knew one which bad been built three times within twenty years. But what was the good of churches when there were no flocks ? They were only built to tax the Catholics.--(Hear.) . . _ Mr. SHAW could assure the Hon. and Learned Gen tleman that these churches had congregations. Mr. O'CONNELL—Yes ; five or six officers of the church, who, when they were dying, always sent for the priest.—(Hear.) Mr. RoNAYDIE referred to the case of a Mr. Dave reux at Stradbally, as one in which the tithes had been levied with harshness and cruelty. There was one wi dow, a Mrs. M'Carty, who was summoned, among others, for tithes amounting to 17s. 6d. Ho held her affidavit in his hand (showing a piece of paper), and she swore that 'he went on June Ist and paid all the tithes which were due, and on the same day that she had to pay 2/. 10s. fur a latitat, which was served on her for the payment of the costs of the lie. 6d. tithes. She was obliged to borrow the money to pay these costs from her neighbours. Then see to the knavery of the receipt.—(The Hon. Gentleman held forth another bit of paper.) It was given on a mu tilated stamp, and said that the Widow M'Carty bad paid all her tithes and costs, without specifying the sum due, up to June Ist. It was dated June 8, 1832, and signed Claridge. That was the humanity of the church. After what he had beard to-night, he must affirm that all the discussion on Friday about the transterrence of the 147th clause to the 54th was mere waste of time. If that House had no power to put an end to the chief grievance of Ireland—if the church was to continue for ever, and that went forth to the people, all be could say was, that he dreaded the consequences.—(Hear.) Sir S. WHALLEY sJid, it was all a delusion to talk of a surplus to be disposed of by Parliament or any body else. There would be none under the Bill. Mr. HARDY thought that there was no use in re taining the words which had been removed. It was clear that the surplus must be disposed of by Parliament, and could not be disposed of by the Commissioners with out the authority of Parliament. To insert the words, therefore, " authority of Parliament," would be quite useless; unless, indeed, the words " secular purposes" were added.—(Hear, hear.) He had no doubt that the Hon. Member for Middlesex, and the Hon. Gentlemen around him, would not object to those words—(Hear, hear)—and would not object, although the surplus fund was to be, as was said, 3,000,0001. They would readily apply the whole revenues of the Church to secular pur poses.—(Hear.) He would take that opportunity of saying, that his motive for consenting to the Coercive Bill was to secure tranquillity to Ireland. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the Bill had created pretty tranquillity in Ireland. Did the Hon. Member know that the King's troops were a few days ago obliged to re treat into Middleton before a large body of the people? Tranquillity would be restored in Ireland, he believed, but it was by the Noble Lord's (Lord Althorp's) measure. Mr. FINN charged the Whig Government—he charged the Right Hon. Gentleman the Secretary for the Colonies, with having provoked and produced the excesses, to re press which he bad called for the Coercive Bill. When that Right Hon. Gentleman talked of the extinction of tithes, he had done what be could to prevent the people being deluded. He was quite sure that, at the beginning of those disturbances, the Irish gentlemen might have put an end to them, but they were encouraged by the Whigs. But those gentlemen were now known; they bad stirred up almost revolution to get their Reform Bill passed : but it was properly said that this bad given the people the Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill. They would let them have nothing else. The delusion, how ever, was now seen through ; and when those gentlemen went to the hustings they would be told to go away.— (Oh, oh') Mr. HARVEY tose to order. He did so with regret ; but he appealed to the Chairman whether the Hon. Gen tleman was not departing altogether from the subject be fore the House. Mr. FINN—The Bill before them was another delusion, with the promise of three millions, with which it had been introduced. He meant that there was a division in the Cabinet on the subject. The Noble Lord, the Mem ber for Nottingham, had declared that church property was public property, and might be appropriated by the state. But the Right Hon. Secretary and the Noble Lord at the bead of the legal profession had declared that it all belonged to the church. Another of the Whig schemes was shown on Friday night. In the early part of the evening they could not muster 42 supporters-84 to 42—and they were defeated. But on the same even ing these Whigs mustered 272 supporters, when they wished to get rid of the clause. This was another proof of the delusions they practised. The first division was a good pretext for getting rid of the 147th clause. In fact the Whigs were prompted by the Tories. The Tories were viceroys over them.—(Laughter.) The Whigs only did the Tories' business. We were governed by Tories in the disguise of Whigs.—( Hear, hear.) They filled their places for the Tories. The people, however, were now aware of the delusion—they were glad that the Whigs, too, had turned against them, and they now knew their enemies. Mr. HARDY maintained that he (lid not support the Coercive Bill on any bargain as to the remedial measures. After a few words from Mr. Shaw,Mr. O'Connell, Mr. Stanley, and Mr. Holcomb, Mr. LYNCH contended that the perpetuity fund was either church property or not. If not church property, it hdd no connection with tire clause. If it were, the object of the clause was to apply it to increase an esta• blishment Already too large. _ _ Mr. HIJAJE said, that the effect of this clause would be to set up and add to the stability of the Irish church in a tenfold degree. He begged to ask the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite whether the words "as the said commissioners are hereafter directed," applied to the 84th clause, giving the commissioners power to augment the benefices? Mr. STANLEY said that the 84th clause was certainly referred to. The object was to throw the whole into one general fund, to apply that fund to the general objects of the Bill—such as the abolition of the vestry ces., &c., and then to that purpose of the Bill comprised in the 84th clause—the augmentation of benefices up to the amount of 2001. per annum. Mr. HUAIE was glad he had drawn forth this explana tion from the Right Hon. Gentleman. In England it was with the utmost difficulty that we could get small be nefices of even 401. or 501. a year augmented, and yet now they were going to give away that which had been admitted to be state property, for the purpose of increasing an already much overgrown establishment.—(Hear.) He was surprised that the Hon. Member for Bradford should deny that the Coercive Bill was introduced to that House and recommended by his Majesty's Ministers for their adoption solely on a pledge that remedial measures should be introduced. This measure was not remedia', for it tended to keep up and perpetuate that which was the greatest cause of discontent in Ireland, the church esta blishment. Mr. STANLEY admitted that his Noble Friend, when he brought forward the Coercive Bill, did state that he should have been exceedingly reluctant to bring forward such a measure, unless be also meant to bring forward measures for tie removal of grievances.—(Hear, hear.) Two of the most prominent of those grievances were re presented to he the collection of tithes and of vestry cess. A resolution had already been passed which would put a stop to the collection of tithes, at least for the present ; and he then held in his hand a Bill for the total abolition of vestry cess. And if the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Mr. O'Connell) would add any words to make that Bill more forcible, those words should be added.—(Hear, hear.) Was not this a performance of their pledge ? ( Hear, bear.) His noble Friend never intended to meet what appeared to be the expeetation of the lion. Member for Middlesex, v 4., to destioy the Itish Church, for the preamble of this Bill was then lying on the table, in which it was expressly stated that the fund to be raised was to be applied to [isc,, of churches, the augmen t ition of small livings, and to such other purposes as might conduce to the advancement of religion ; and the efficacy, permanence, and stability of the United Churches of Etiglatal and Ireland.—(Hear.) Mr. LITTLETON sti.l said that the property of the !• r ' • • church was stibect to the control of parliament whenever th, re was a surplus not required for the purposes of the establisbnient ; and though he gave his willing support to t h,a dt t r l t : io9 made la.t Friday, yet he was tberoughly satisfied that whenever this fapd shotlid exceed those wants—and the House would every year have the means of investigating this point,-the sum so increasing beyond the necessities of the Established Church ought to be placed at the disposal of Parliament.— s (Hear, hear.) He was convinced the great majority of Members in that House were of opinion that the property of the church was subject to the control of Parliament; but he had no doubt that the great majority were also of opinion that mob property ought not lightly to be applied to other than religious purposes.—(Hear.) Sir R. PEEL thought there was no advantage in dis cussing hypothetical questions ; and it was in his opinion inconsistent with prudence for Ministers of the Crown to give opinions on such subjects. Dr. LUSHINGTON concurred in opinion with the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland. After a few words from Sir R. PEEL and Mr. HUMF, Mr. O'CONNELL said, he was glad to bear that tbf. Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Littleton) admitted that the surplus funds arising from ecclesiastical property were to be considered as subject to the control of Parliament. After a few observations from Messrs. Robinson, War• burton, Stanley, and Hume, the clause was agreed to. On the 56th clause being read, Mr. O'CONNELL observed, that nothing could be done to any purpose without repealing the Act of the 7th Geo. IV. He repudiated the Act 7th Geo. IV. as unjust to the Catholics. It was impossible to get rid of the vestry cess as long as it continued in force. As long as it continued unrepealed, the churchwardens would have it in their power to do an infinite deal of mischief, and to op press the people; for it certain forms were not gone through, which it was almost impossible could be done, there was no appeal from the decision. All he asked was the repeal of the Act 7th Geo. IV., in order that the ma chinery of that Act might be got rid of, and that clauses should be added to the present Bill by which all those parts might be retained which were thought necessary. The Hon. and Learned Member concluded by moving that certain words should be struck nut of clause 56, which would have the effect of repealing the Act 7th Geo. IV. Mr. STANLEY said that it had never been the object of the Government to repeal all the laws relative to paro chial assessm- tits, which would lay the parishes open to endless confusion and litigation. They proposed to repeal such parts as referred to church purposes and no more. The principle of this measure was that the Catholics of Ireland should be relieved of all cess connected with the Protestant religion. He did not defend the machinery of the Act 7th Geo. IV. ; and as a proof that be did not entirely approve of it, he would remind the House, that on his first taking office connected with Ireland, be introduced a Bill to remove the inconveniences connected with that Act. It, however, had the effect of regulating all other parochial assessments excepting the vestry cess. Mr. O'CONNELL denied that he had ever avowed any approbation of that Act. He had ever spoken of it as one of the roost tyrannical ever passed. The only part of the assessment laid on by that Act which was of gene ral benefit to the parishes, was that for fire-engines ; but would they, for such an assessment as that, keep up the whole machinery of the Bill ? The other assessments— namely, for deserted children and coffins—were exclu sively for the benefit of Protestants, for the Catholics never got any benefit from them. He saw how it was to be. They were to be deceived to-night as they had formerly been. On Friday the vestry cess was to be got rid of, and to-night he found it was to be retained. Sir ROBERT PEEL never saw less reason for diffe rence of opinion than on the present occasion. It was the intention to do away with exclusively Protestant cess al together, which would make the right of appeal, which was necessary while the cess was laid on by the Pro testant exclusively, probably useless, now that both par ties were to have a voice in it ; he, therefore, did not see why the machinery of that Act should be retained. But the Hon. and Learned Member contended for the repeal of the Act 7th Geo. IV. ; the effect of which would be, not only to repeal that Act, but every other Act respecting vestry cess. There was a difference of opinion as to the propriety of introducing poor laws into Ireland ; but, while there were no poor laws, be doubted the pro priety of repealing the parochial assessments. A considerable part of that assessment was expended in providing coffins to bury the poor, and in sup porting deserted children. He would take as an in stance the parish of St. Mary, in which the whole assess ment amounted to 1481., of which 481. was expended in providing coffins for the poor, to which he would think no one would object, and he had no doubt the Catholics had a full proportion of that amount; and 1001. went to the maintenance of deserted children. He knew that it was considered objectionable by some persons that found lings should be provided for; but he (Sir R. Peel) did not think the House would say that it would be advisable to do away altogether with the only provision made for deserted children. At least he (Sir R. Pee!) was not pre pired to take such a responsibility upon himself. He agreed in substance with the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, that it was desirable to do away with ad ex clusive assessments, and that exp , nsive and useless machi nery ought not to be kept up ; but he could not consent to the total repeal of the Act of 7th Geo. IV. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he was ready to prove that out of the 401. laid out on coffins, 108. were not expended for coffins for Catholics. Dr. LUSHINGTON said that he should object deci dedly to the repeal of the Act in question. He thought that the object of the Hon. and Learned Member would be quite as well attained by some addition to the present clause—something to this effect:—" That if any Vestry Cess should be hereafter made, which shall contain any item for Church purposes, any person suing on that cess, in any way whatsoever, shall forfeit four times the value sued for, together with treble costs." Mr. O'CONNELL thought this would be worse than useless—it would merely have the effect of increasing liti gation, which was precisely what he wanted to do away with. The definition of the words " church purposes" would more than occupy a court of law a whole term ; and, besides, how was any poor 'man, whose interests it was more particularly necessary to consult—bow was he to institute the inquiry? He hardly understood, either, what the Hon. and Learned Gentleman meant, for be in sisted upon retaining in force the Act itself, while a: the same time he proposed a proviso against its due operation. Mr. SHAW opposed the repeal of the Act. Let them introduce what words they pleased, with reference to " church purposes," but he would never consent to the repeal of so important an Act as the one in question, and which bore reference to so many other matters. Sir R. INGLIS also opposed the repeal of the Act. No good reasons had been alleged for its repeal, nor any efficient sul.stitute. Mr. LALOR said the present acting of the vestries in Ireland was such as called loudly for alteration. The Hom Gentleman detailed several abuses which have been frequently reported. _ _ Mr. SHEIL also strongly advocated the repeal of the Act. When repealed they might make something of such portions of it as were good, and make the whole effective by an improved machinery, for the present machinery was dreadfully out of order. After some further conversation between Mr. STAN.. LEY and Mr. O'CoNtiErt, in which question and an swer were almost word for word the same with the fore going, the House divided, when there appeared— For the Amendment I4S Against it 49 Majority for Ministers 99 The clause was then agreed to. Clauses 64 and 109 were also agreed to. On clause 110 being read, which gives the Commis sioners power to suspend the appointment of clergymen on the vacation of any benefice in the gift of the Crown or Bishops, in which there has been no service for three years, Mr. SHAW objected to the clause as likely to check the growth of Protestantism in Ireland, and undermine the Established Clutch. It would be better to provide means for celebrating service in such benefices, than remove the clergymen. There were 1,400 benefices in Ireland, and 1,100 churches. In the year 1800 there were only 700 churches, and nearly 500 had been since built; and he put it to the Committee, if such a clause as that now proposed had been passed in 1800, if it would not have prevented all those 500 churches from being built? According to the Returns on the table, when properly co►rectetl, there were only about 66 benefices in Ireland in which there had been no service for three years. He contended, that if the incumbents were removed from these parishes, there would be no hope of ever seeing service in those places, and Pro testantism would be extinguished. The Bishops had been usefully employed in extending the Church service in Ire land ; but they would not be able to do so if the incum bents were removed. He objected also to a Commission composed partly of hymen, having such a power as this clause would give them. But without saying anything further of ecclesiastical matters, he would appeal to the Committee.,-as absentees were the great misfortune of Ireland—if a worse thing could be possibly done in a 'emporal and political view, than to remove the clergy from any of the parishes in Ireland ? They were the great friends of the poor--administering to their neces sities, and contributing to instruct and relieve them ; and to the population of Ireland the removal of the Protestant clergy would be a great evil- He did not mean to move as an amendment to omit the clause ; but he hoped the Right Hon. secretary would omit it. If the Right Hon. Secretary should not, he should in the course of the clause move some amendment. Mr. STANLEY defended the clause, as necessary for the support of the church. Mr. SHPL observed, that as the pressure would not pass into a law for a month, it would be easy for the Right Hon. Secretary to send over two thousand clergymen t, celebrate divine worship in the different parishes before the passing of the Act, and thus entirely to elude the enactments provided for the ca•es of parisl es in which divine worship has been intermitted for three years pre- i foul to tito puling of the Lot. SUPI k v e considered, perhaps, a pi a / rams , b tu "ullify the clause. Sir R. INGLIS opposed the clause. Colonel CONOLLY said the measi strous s'ride towards suppressing the in Ireland. Sir R. PEEL said his objection to mainly on the principles which it invol , object was to bring divine worship wi. all ; but instead of doing that, the measi of suspending divine service altogether . Lord DUNCANNON said, it was there had been much talk about the Pi Ireland. It was time there should be the Catholic feeling—(Cheers)—and on ccnsideration to both religions could thf gishte.—(Hear.) Mr. STANLEY acid, to remove all difficul,l willing to take th e d a t e o f th e re t urn ma d e o n tr February, 1833.—(Hear.)—Agreed to. Mr. ESTCOURT moved as an amendment, - 01 the words " Ist of February, 1833," "and shall n o been resumed and regularly performed within sit months next before such avoidance," be inserted. On a division there appeared— For the Amendment Against it 2 51 Majority The clause was then agreed to. On the motion for agreeing to the clause 11 iv 00 Sir R. PEEL g a v e no ti ce th a t it was his o _ o l when the Ho use t oo k th e sc h e d u l es i nto co nsideri oi di move that livings under 3001. a year should be from taxation.—(Hear, hear.) 1 10 The postponed c l auses , 117, 118, 133, 138,1° ( were then agreed to, with severa l a dditi ona l provigu A, d The House having resumed, the Chairman rer progress, and obtained leave to sit again this day. p i g Ayr Bon, Acc A tto ' N4 Abi Acc b itto an ] 13 itto 't ee D tki 4ittp Ace ° b i f , Bon, I te V,Acc h b ittol nd n ' C t to ACC Boican Nro Ditto Ance Mex. thzt.lllir at,to Na r t n i st Co r ho e. o orehlan 111, fora' mi, 11 4 , t fi,No • i no wx p ( kce L4tlstratl?ar•-•!( i t ZllO 4 HIGI4 foyA HE Zl)i 1 , ,i, A Nh a coo I • • at it woald . ; a n tic ] 1 Stock - ei_C e : n ot i azure Was WOCet't It Red.. Protestan t , i - 3 k K .; j i 4 4 1,.....Ciat. ) the meant . I thki:ot !red. The iii ,:..t t n. s, Si l ithin the wen't' irc,. ig : !allure gart t i ! ,• 'tn. 5,, a l • 001 . 4 1 , 15 , ti I not the Ji iini.Zl - --?Z,2? ) rosestant Palbriau, i t e ! ts or e some tboloj(i!tifortiot n the gronTair AZl ti ttfo_ A„ hey alone Irr; j.,._bi t i o l an BI LL :I,c`, APOTHECARIES -BILL. The LORD ADVOCATE, with a view 07 certain difficulties that stood in th e wa y o f th e P i d caries Bill, moved that it b e re f erre d t o t h e con siu of a Select Committee. Colonel WOOD recommended the nostponernet 3 t measure until the next session of P,o-liament. the :101 After some conv e rs a tio n , &notion for the d ment of the Select Committee was agreed to ; Committee was accordingly appointed. SHERIFFS' EXPENSES BILL. Mr. F. PALMER moved the further considen? the Sheriffs Bapenses Bill in a Committee of the j House. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL opposed the f itr progress of the Bill. A discussion of some length ensued. Eventosill House divided. For the Commitment of the Bill ...... 42 Against it 1 8 Majority Upon a division on the Kilkenny and Carlow 11 .0 . 4 the House was counted out at a quarter befog o'clock this morning. In our list of the majority and minority on th4, 41 ? 1 on Mr. Stanley's motion t o s t r ik e out t h e 147th 7, 0 1 the Irish Church Temporalities Bill, which aPln d itf, yesterday's Sun, th e nam es o f M essrs . G. P ou lett'V C. L. Cumming Bruce, C. M. Phillips, R. Watsti Forster, and T. F. Buxton, should have been i O 7OO the majority ; and those of Lord Clements, Major:;" Messrs. C. Fitzroy, W. N. Maanamara, B. Sobs/ A. H. Lynch, T. Bewes, R. Fitzgibbon, G. NO' o e s , M. D. Hill, R. Howard, and W. A. William s , have been inserted in the minority. Messrs. Fine phant, and Bayntun, paired off against Mr. Stanleivid position; and Colon e l G re y an d G enera l Sh ar pe. i, ° lo of it. Messrs. Perrin, S ea l e , E twa ll , an d T. •L'' nedy, did not vote. 0 1 DIVISIONS in the HOUSE of COM"'a TO THE EDITOR OF THE TIMES. of CO Sir,—ln your list of the majority in the HoUse d i mons on Friday night you have omitted my name, 0 ;0 recting the error, I will, with your leave, give in a fe et my reasons for voting for the withdrawal of the 1471 h 0 0 01 , the Irish Church Temporalities Bill. There could, o two objects in the view of those who desired to re clause—viz. either, Ist, the money; or, 2d, the P Now, for the money, it is clearly proved there will be dispose of for some years; the proceeds of the sale of leases being first applicable to the extinction of the vest" and it must be very long before there is any surplus 1 beyond this. For the principle of the alienation of 'DI property, that could not possibly have been established i a passing of the clause, sin ce th e Mi n i s t r y, on introdP C expressly declared that they did n o t consid er the O i t ' r disposed of to be church property, an d did not We s° ft -° , l the question as to the applicability o f c h urch pro Pe' purposes. It is most certain, therefore, that after th is ; tion on the part of those who introduced the Bill an d . the clause, it never could have been pleaded that Par' ' in passing the clause, had settled this principle. If, th neither money nor principle was to be gained by the was it worth risking a quarrel with the other House of ment ? Butthen it is said the supporters of the Ch u 4 / 1 great strress upon this clause, and now cry up its erasay signal triumph. Sir, it has always been the tactics of ~/ party to make the most of any little crumb of comfort tasl be left to them by thier victors, to solace their PrrjoeJ crowing over some worthless relic which they bav e i ° n from the onslaught, and which they are sure to Mai nt : e cte . , their ark itself. If the Tory party, conscious of th e - et t 7 of passing the Irish Church Reform Bill, choose hearts on the abolition of this most useless and e .i raP i t l Y ott ° in the name of pity let us give it up to them, and a `, self-complacency to console itself for their defeat bY 17 ,,. w h a t imaginary triumph they can derive from this LW"' rt icO, We have the substance of the measure in every P a n ote' j The abolition of church cess is a vast concession, an d a O l in fact, to the complete establishment of that systealts contend was not involved in the 47th clause; for hi „olie j , 4 clause one portion of the church property is to be arickil.ri relieve the landholders of Ireland from the payroen t f i tP A 9 cess ; and he must be a profound casuist who can e" o frol be a virtual application of church revenues to staY of I say, then, that there was no principle establish " J o 147th clause, and its erasure was not, therefore, the .0. ment of any principle; and I own my utter aston ish the struggle that was made for its retention, and a t t h h e Irj ness of the hostility exhibited against Ministers by t; to e , opposition on that occasion. If these gentlemen w' 111 blish the principle of the alienability of church P O l O 4 O them try the question in a fair, open, and intelligib le o r A o and not endeavour to smuggle the recognition f frOP:i ciple into a clause of an Act of Parliament, the ye rf o < of which declared, on introducing it, that they P o t avoided mooting the question. If, t oo , there D i ", De t breach between the two Houses of Parliament, le t :A . some clear, definite, and int e lli g ibl e point—sornetd worth contending for ; n o t upon an equ i voca l Ph r "di kind used in the 147th cl ause , w hi c h i s i nterpre ted by if ° c parties in contradict or y senses; an d which, if retai n have left the question, to all practical purpos es, where it is now. _e_l • I remain, Sir, your obedient servant, it o, London, June 24. G. POULETT SC BRISTOL, JUNE 24. TO THE EDITHR OF THE—, 1 0 Sia,—l have taken the liberty of addressing 3 1: " od er a you on the subject of the Sabbath, which is no w G e ' d t consideration of Parliament. In the first chapte r it is written—" God said let there be lights in the 6 , ,, , 113 : 00 , the heaven, to divide the day from the night." nians, Persians, Syrians, with many eastern nan"; t et their day at sun-rising; the Athenians and Jo" setting ; as also the Austrians, Bohemians, Silesia n 0 0. and Chinese. The Arabians began their day at a ts°,,, j ; Egyptians began their day at midnight; 3 ' ; ,1)t.',1 European nations. The day was framed that mall'n.„'"cor t and by industry obtain susistance ; which time s o six days, on the seventh is hallowed to God, that tot) from labour, and worship his Creator. The Sa n , on day out of seven. Does the Sabbath begin (re sti l". ture) at sun-rising, sun-setting, noon, or midnigil tho nerally reckon from midnight to midnight. is 01 d ° o l The Sabbath is the seventh day, and not the s el foit, V fl night. The civil day may commence at midn:' oo , Sabbath, surely, does not commence till sunsi st i o there is an essential difference between the civi l ... As* beginning of the Sabbath. The first is of nsa° • i ll of God. A day is twelve hours, say from six to 0 $ the sin in engaging in our usual pursuits befn.freoe morning, or after six in the evening) Again , 00! 4 v lis t be reconed from midnight, then it must end at n Fon" ' contrary. The most rational way to observe W ip ed V the space of time from sun.rise to sun-set, or da P e is tit himself, having appointed the sun to rule the dal' 0 ,1 0. 0 the time between midnight and sun-rise, or froilibetosco six o'clock (if the Sabbath be so reckoned), and bight' set and midnight, or between six o'clock and irn t " ieg O.P td 00 , be reckoned the Sabbath ; and surely a Bil l, res eed ture for its foundation, ought to be like it in , rcyiK these hints have any merit, most willingly do et, into your hands, that you may obtain the , as Y e far fi opinion of the framers of the Bill now lai d b0f°,,.. 1. 03 0;o as to the duration, beginning, and end o f the 0 0i ' p ee joined in Scripture, and thus bury all er rors in moll may have originated concerning it. I crave the ;Opt your opinion on this matter, anxiously wai ting o' o De r CO T" . ing P.S. Is there any Act of Parliament deteruon ginning of the Sabbath at midnight. 6 F r o , h o From retu rns j us t made to the le a g itit i o vernment, it appears th it there are in the , boo of Paris 20,500 w, rkmen, of who m oily employ. in the der of th Of the L ANed an effect, th ?RICE gal Ste; Tui