The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-05 00:00:00

od e L .befi - • bii 14 Y the ne °f ,rradicte , b e be Jibe jiber t Y it e d tb3".(i!j 13 1° coinV s r Ira S °° f ee' VJ S p ity 0 , - 0 . ,get ot h I °' )t e th eij ; rvo , te t o rd. 14° 1 3 ; that 'sl. lci vote for any Measure which would have the effect d.ekldideing the pow er of the Hon. Member for e , ews Irom statement@ made privately to him, that Dublin. al)), gentlemen who supported the Hon. and Learned sot da et l Z ll :l . in that House and in public, condemned his 4to , nit P e. l 1i . 1.t 5.--.1. ( . ries of " Nime, Public` Name.") ) !eil L earned 11 ‘. lied 0? the .statemen . by th eh e itt H7 e st l i d . ar hi s c uat ,, airneher himself, at a meeting on Saturday, was made to as that Hon. and Learned Member b e w all 1 i. 4 say (he did not know whether correctly) that l ie ce'aed coldly on during the week both by his Sir and etiernies.--(Hear.) ~linntßi.sblihATESON thought the case . laid before the 4 of th e ti r 'I .11Iajesty'e Ministers carried conviction with teprelite.evessui of the present Bill : and n be ti r t s u sa cu s ey, the and atete,,h:4: nieing tiaotgorenalt andn f u e m l' e n m s e l s tut the feelings of his enri ' t ' a e of the people of theirthe n e orth g of Ireland—to give H s had come (f eat ~".lelr coneurreuce of that measure. that i:,",ratlti Within the last few days, and he could sa a ys i 11, ein 41, eatt of it which he left, all the property,w.i's i o curd Worth, and all the integrity of the country 0n ... ee ta ati r °f intrusting his Majesty's Ministers wi tp was teda ee P d at an end to the horrid state to which Ireland . P'its'ei-7(Cheers.) He would not then discussthe . - 'p es of . P"' lime , the Bill, but he would do so when the pro 'e f or ,airtivql; meantim e he would say that lie meant to wh et , •ue first readin g of it. There never wasatii o n n e th e 1) 1 , 4' , 4 " vigour and determination was required Itel td 0 . his AL'est 'a 'Ministers than at present.. e a y s t tl ai-ightrtat ledieuiar vessel Y which had struck upon a rock ; have a mast cut away, b o e rt 4 t°,, haversle e of iots cargo thrown overboard e e s - . abetli"teheOtild be got o ff . fie h a d heard a great o d u _ . 1 'aY th e t Y r oloy and despotism of this Bill but he w greaterld at 0 s rid of tYra le effect of it would be to get . 1 .1 , YiaNl despotisna than ever existed in an)_ country h lower ..I:`'(l,y, that in the northern provinces ~t e Bile ( te l 0 ; 1 i ' almost unanimously in favour of ti. in , r No, no.") He repeated it—the lower districts ieller;•i isVour of it ; and it was only in those goaded Lt eae s e_ %us men, for their own base objects,. d feeling had b,, 11 L antry on to their destruction, that any . e ti e ' r '44 against it. He acknowledged that the people 4, 1 7 4 , and that they had been misgover . n d ed t ; o and the 't4te het was, that they were now reduce er e etatl,a ecarne necessary to. , It -"'t it h treat them as if 'u t c h h ey a . bt tot but adinleifit, and apply the strait w h ai n st . c a o s at. w He could pen thin in many parts, the retched thiltn4 th e districts, su t r hat they thought no Ses t ge e°4l bPe for:. t S h o e me wor s With these senti ments, IL kaki ng 4 t the a only his own e' sentiment . s l, , ise b . ut those of He was etitile'a province of Ulster, he would c si oe ,deedt or fettered ; he was not bound to F..ivheereexpr,s we re °lsaii°ll4°etlents which he did not feel. 't wee who W et, pi rwiever, who spoke against this who ,et'dged to the repeal of the Union—( etcl ha ste sent to that House to vote in a b pa llm e r a t ee i d i C a n r til l a t r ea t r v ) a — y s tl, a e o there as t,' tad Pow that to vote otherwise— 'sl,lltl sl oes of a faction, as the representatives of a 3 1,1 1 (1 ‘t rgare of a bii.cted priesthood. in any as -646!),11 'lll rose to order. He had never d . Th. :ardsuc onpr brious language.—(Oi et.' Ch-airse.e) th t,`,OßAkest; - ° Member would k ere '-'" hoped the Hon. a e'tall d oted - w at 4 difference between what he (A . lrs Finn) Sided'f r:;_od taste, anti what the House considered out , \ ( 1- lear,) 4 t l •khylaEßT BA TESON had only spoken of gentle 'llite 1e57i4e:1111.4 into that House pledged to ineasuie f s s l e f i o th n: i, I )er e '4elli reasoned upon or discussed.. I ; s °el iii roUld identify themselves with such as lie men .. ' 41 4 !e°Old not help it. He concluded by . againsay- 'fe l " 1 4 hi s 01 . s k t , own name, and as representing the feelings 411 4 h. P'e 4f the North of Ireland, he would support 4 '" ( I r.ta„--- Cheers. ) 14sIgs had never heard mor i e let e . xtra H o e rdi ( n s a l r r y . tieetorl44 that used by the Hon. I). t k ), Opi ' r 1 the honour of being sent to that House by Ole ess-hy that class of the people to whom the late p all . t0,,,, t to meat,},ia gave the power of sending in representativesconnfsV,u,ekneeleo r d o f , IN Re had aspired to a seat i i ri l laitl ioclateitions sent to him by the pet ) ) °tie . irlesequenceof them he came forward. They t hat 4 414' elected k it . t h ad ta ns before they . .him, but he denied . n lll p t. 4dopted those opinions in ortle t r o to tb o o b se ta w in hn a b-PPoetti 41;!ittent. In giving his support li t t fin ea.asißill, he did so, not from personal feelings, If t, - , P'sktm.--„,s'ncere conviction of its dangerou i s d te in n f d a e l n li c b y ly . ttcsee;•-•-'s against the Bill, because . e ver 14 P - I P e ar c ati°4 between the two countr a i k t e t e s. w th l o e t e i w n o d u e l s d p m si a r k o e f t ii it er kldi,:`. Ireland dissatisfied, and T ha n d e ir,Nteet°p4tices in a British House m of f Coi; r il ev o a n i s le . d hich be ore . L, d e iiied s ts.cl dissatisfaction by tNiV,Pevrilptlich since the w ß r i e ll se w n a t s a b g r a o i u n g st ht it i , n. sign H ed e ai la tt 1 . 1 Of p,:, ''''... Petitions to IN Ztd idwaPerty and honour, bypresent good Whigs—by men tit Ministers—by men 5,44'4 te„, Y r ss upporte i l the 4 11 ; °see ~,b0 eelonged to any secret or public association a R .„Who h ad had fought the battles of Ministers—hy 1 I t - ' l6 ° • , 1 ; 1 / 4 rer been agitators, but always '•etl f' •" the were all against the Bill.. opp A os i e l d h t i o s l'i be t : ti ' t i 3) 1 4' 11 tinrelatli expressed the same feeling. \ e V h e t ; t Il i te:,rti oo _ , d_o ? I l t w d as to coerce the Irish pe p h l ad tried and failed. That in a r te l anel :t ea 0:cell. andten aovreera vt ,- 40 s ,o common a trick, that people were waswell known tated 1,,,,, Publi c in .• showing t h at the a spe. '." it W' aYgaMland it bad been s tito e , l ''se the Ministers.. e " ns g s ' would ive the House .. cle a , of the H e wou . g i t `° the i e °Pinions prevalent in Ireland, and would 111 11 : l iie la g u age Used by Mr. Berwick tll'earle Tl°4. Member accordingly read a aanlateexmtrenectt-, atid'i,ilare of tll year's it had been history of Irelaod was the history of, a , ne eiead coercion. In 250 Yea ti "ea "34fficient ; and even those who were its ad nt proposi °a,' B oat l'' ; ' , l'a O bliged to confess by CI - " h arl been a complete failu t r h e e ; f • r the then, to }:aartlethets'en habitable." Was it not present country t i i r m es e, would not themt: 4 difi'tNem, and try if healing h Cat), !‘ent and beneficial effect , at ~, ale: In • • but that was . not enough ; oe eti th e i .,, e - al sipation, effect? they had given ti o ,, i hilt nrieendation of better measures, h b in u g t i t t b h e at a l s a n e o r t . tl °4 , 't the 4: , He denied—notevittand Il i , Rte, ter 'Rot Ron. Secretary—that disturbance was aea ft, than form lv For 70 years—as lie could cou-"' f ' ' ' Pu blic! d o • er ' .- Ireland had been disturb T e b t tit c t e l ye etitly . o:,unrits— eleittiek v. A n t ri m ore disturbed than at present. much Londonderry, were 111 , art' r ' e ' e ' .14 the'rni.' D own, and t utbe e , s lalted ~, , oeginning of the reign ''ee • -" Art of Parliament to put down the dis f - : '''''t 1 ; 1 tthern. .. wail Pato n e' l Put own di i t sturbances ; then ai l ?' p i r f e e a we rli s •It" ehtet"°4ll,--noww they prevail in the south. lie they thit;44o ee4l,!'ttrdera were committednow, fact •ilar state of 70 a tot h - ‘ 44t (l f •en ly In ' a similar the last it, Year s I t Wle °I -er • . existed for i."'ed a - s t int er 4.1 i now existedland surrection be 1, - ) -nri t hey ). *val s I coercive laws had I been fre . quet A it c ly t gav e •:1) r ene w ha d elcvays failed. ' act,%od 11 , d *eq several times, an r d be the n landhadbn i io r •-er i t f years ; but acts of kindness. 21 a• ish redrea,i or many were almost unknown. the lashllese a t re a ,„ . ,ng grievance about to suspend d e Iv ~,,, u. were they now hy Chi" P4s were He saw no good reason, an - ''i' 11 lace the power gran ted po wet kii in consent to n p c.i. 1 Ile would place t as ILI ht i 0 tlieh."Y man's ha , ro a sen t Ministers as s t oo l n ding tl leir e of a., ends of the they Plaetv'Y Men ; but had they a patent for him so that ) Could they assure Howwas et o tv °lile i'asscA laYgh. day six months? . te, h aii e in office that . h.. . 41 0 bit ". wh o was to be Loid . Lieute n n t an in t o ig f b l t re i l i a e nd a - "Ii -'4l hence? The Lord Lieutenant theseigeoer e read .ete i'-s Man, or he might be a very bad man, and, Iy t i i ae would consent to no such Bill. He was et'-ta,'llae•et'tver, to grant additional powers to put down Is t '" • ..' 4 re commended by the Committee appointed r til k i; II , 4 „ -t t i nee of Sir Henry nth Parnell whose absence d f up. Till itt ir ' i,. l ,' ne deepl regretted. If at honest an l he''44an h ad seat on those benches, the present at tat ~,'''k4 e e, a a vould never be passed.—(Hear.) I_l4 4t4trltri:oitteue d only advised that tbe 1 should be . t a i w i suspend the Pie t: la ~,:4. l bet the Ministry proposed tes t To i kh;s Act; and inflict martial law on the peo had made out no illat-r,hat:„t•rY that, the Government one rva 4 , • 1 : 1 ef ~4 ' Th had only brought forward rie:lll4ll"tfu'litery taut eY having sb do oa n . e . its duty, and singlethat k Upon that e the 2Ve_Tiet_ al:l.d 4,l4aiii44ifY etal:eei of Car r u k r 'k es for changing sight Y p a l the trial ' b ea Jury. Was that fa caseß t e L'eed sl • Y . • I Bill, a strong_o ch 4 ue ta us anti-constitutiona W hat : e4 se e jlll outs which had not been done. T To show as t ~,,, t u l 'exc epiio he t o t , er would ive his consent. `-'°lisere ~1141e~e rd . the country, he would . quote some Beta,to 4stes, restieno v not that of agitators, but of ° l ° T oi . Q a o l ll ellen o n( p ' roperty. He would quote the i 4 to ° hi e ?net Roelaford, who was a . Conservative. asked flietip,tvmd"nee there bad been no difficulty He was was a l ' the 'S Presecutions—none whatever. . H °Pon th e eirn44' Were ill-treated, and lie said that it t ak er , o'o rep4toseanee. Why did not the Ministry act testi s ' n IY t 0 of that Committee ? Was the evidence w_l°°lly Ofdelude and betray ? It was proved by the 4 : 1 1 bad b klice Alagistrates and country gentl, , m n, that PL'rticesi'artti l'irought over here to give testimony, t4 l h e t " 0rd1 r , Y .,,, "Y the testimony of Major ess Singleton,.. ,„ la ee . 4,1 • e ..... .41 ( !_i'etlYr. law testimony sufficientlbeetno foundr:er di tootiti,:° t10,i,),, ' , Via t had that a he. r i ',.`"hy bad repressed disturbances in other nr_-ov.ien,tl: q v i, 4 ,,,,n , one sent to Kilkenny i t,ii,,,, ~ tee state of the country—he hail ?_(Hear, --(,. laugh.) "(I triurGr f f hi m be such an act.r Y kind ; la, '11,14, d nevec-baerennitT favour of outrages 0 . "` tit,' "4. countenanced them by his acts ; he wished them put an end to; but he thought the dis turbances might be put an end to without this Bill. It would cause great mischief, and would not suppress these outrages. It would promote irritation, and consequent y agitation, to a frightful degree. Already, since the speech from the throne, agitation had increased very much, and those who had never been agitators before had now become so. There was the case of Lord Midtown, who had joined the Volunteers.—(Hear, hear.) He was a man who had hitherto studiously abstained from politica—he was a good Whig, and since this Bill had been brought in he had joined the Volunteers. Similar effects had been produced in the county of Waterford. A Magistrate had written to him to say, that if the Bill were passed he would resign his commission and leave the country. He would not be made the tool to administer such a law. The Hon. Member then referred to documents to show that Tipperary, Waterford, and Kilkenny were tranquil. He qu'lt,tl the testimony of Mr. 0 Shea, the late Sheriff, and of a Mr. Power. They stated that everybody was against Lord Grey's Bill. That was the case with men who were good Whigs, and had been good Whigs all their lives. Every one was against it except the Conservatives, and d few people who suffered by the Whitefeet in Kil kenny.— (Cheers from the Ministers.) And was the Con s!itution to be suspended because a few Whitefeet com mitted outrages? He seas ready to give the Ministers power to put down these outrages, but not to suspend the Constitution. Doing that would only promote the cause of repel, and beget a deep rooted animosity against Eng land. He believed that the gentlemen who brought in the Bill were quite unconscious of what were likely to be its effects. The Bill might enable them to collect tithes for a short time, but it would ❑ot make the country tranquil. Ministers talked of the disturbed state of Ireland. Was Ulster, he would ask, iu a disturbed state? Was Mun titer ? No : and yet this was a province with a popula- torn of 600,000. Was Limerick i❑ a disturbed state ? .No. There had been, doubtless, some election disturb. ances ; but had there been no el ction disturbances in England ? or•, indeed, had there been no other riots in England? Did not the House remember the dreadful stories told i❑ the Tory Papers, in the Standard and Morning Post, of the " brickbat and bloodshed elections," as they called them ? Did they forget the terrible riots at Bristol and Nottingham ?—( Hear, from the Irish Members.) And as to the descriptions given in the House of what dis turbances had occurred in Ireland, they had been fright fully exaggerated.—(Order.) He did not say these exag gerations were intentional. He did not say that the Noble Lord who introduced the measure had stated any thing but what had been reported to him as undoubted truth. He denied that the state of those counties even, which, he would admit, were really in a state of disturb ance, was at all such as to call for the atrocious modes of suppression contemplated in the Bill. He would again entreat the House to strike at the root of the evils of Ire land ; not to countenance the atrocious coercive measures proposed by Ministers. He would call upon them to di rect their attention to the subject of tithes and their ap propriation. He would have them succour the poor, and take measures to insure their education. If they neglected those things, they would do nothing by coercion. The Protestant population in Ireland was but 500,000. yet these enjoyed an income of eight or nine mil lions. He would ask any Hon. Member whether this was a just distribution of property ? He trusted that this House would not pass the proposed mea• sures with the indecent haste displayed by another House in passing them. He trusted they would allow time for due deliberation—that they would wait to see the result of the assizes in the disturbed counties. Were they to he told their duty ?—were they to be directed what course to pursue by Sir Robert Peel—by that great Reformer ? Were they to allow themselves to be dic tated to by a man who wished to make the Whigs as unpopular in Ireland as his own party was here ? That Hon. Member talked the other evening about a great gulf between him and the Hon. Secretary for Ireland and of the rubbish put forth by the Members for Ireland ; he (Mr. Barron) supposed that the Hon. Gentleman intended to fill up the chasm between him and office, with that rub bish, and to surface it over by his selfish sophistry ; but would the representatives of an empire be led away by such flimsy sophistry as that of the Hon. Gentleman he had mention, d ? He trusted not. lie trusted that they would nut fail in their duty to do justice. Ireland for many years had been subject to the pow -r of corrupt Corporations, ' Orange ascendancy, Gagging Bills, and suspensions of the Habeas Corpus. Was this to be continued ? He could tell them that Ireland was all in a flame—and with reason. The House must quench that flame by striking at the root of the evils which excited it. At the last Doneraile As• sizes there had been no less than 1,200 processes for tithes, none of which were for more than six shillings.—(Cries of " Oh, oh"—much uproar ; one gentleman entertaining the Hon. Members with an exceedingly natural imitatio❑ of the braying of an ass.) The Hon. Gentleman, after order was comparatively restored, cited some of the evi dence given by Major Bryan before the Committee in the course of last session, which, however, we were totally unable to catch the tenor of, from the uproar recoinmenc ing, which only ceased when the Hon. Gentleman who had been speaking sat down. Mr. CHAPMAN said that the Hon. Members of the party opposed to the Bill were not the only persons who found themselves in an unpleasant situation : the inde pendent Members, who were of no particular party, like himself, were also in a very disagreeable position on ac. count of this Bill, which had been introduced to the House in a most mischievous and injudicious manner. Were the Bill only proposed for the punishment of those persons in Ireland who had committed the atrocious acts described, he would be one of the last to oppose it ; there could not be the least shadow of a shade of the possibility of his op position. But he should oppose it because he thought it would have the effect of implicating the innocent with the guilty. He thought the Bill might be divided—first, as against local disturbances—secondly, as against illegal as sociations in the country. As to the second part, he thought Ministers had made out no case. That there existed a body of men called volunteers, was undoubted, and it was equally true that the existence of such a body was incon sistent with law: but because the volunteers were culpable, should this House consent to a Bill subjecting a whole country to its influence? If such a Bill were to be al lowed, the House would be besieged next session with the complaints of individuals of injuries and violence sustained by them. He opposed the Bill because he believed that the temporary calm produced by it would not be seized in order to remove the real causes of disturbance.—(Hear, hear.) Ministers were prepared to introduce no measures of permanent remedy. As to the Change of Venue Bill, had a single case of jurors having been intimidated from the discharge of their duties been proved, he would have given it his support ; but they had failed to establish a so litary instance.—( Hear.) Mr. LAMBERT said there were two questions before the House--whether additional powers ought to be granted to Government, and whether the precise powers demanded were those best calculated to restore tranquillity. The speech of the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland, able as it undoubtedly was, threw no considerable light on the sub ject ; it was too much occupied with personal invective— (Cheers)—and too little with the sound views of a ju dicious Statesman; that speech contained a triumphant statement of crime, but it contained no sentiment of corn- miseration—it communicated no hopes of relief, and gave not the slightest pr,dnise of the beginning of that retribu tio❑ and ciirnpensition which should atone to Ireland for centuries of rnisgovernment.—(Cheers.) The conditio❑ of Ireland was, however, correctly described in the speech. It was with a feeling of deep humiliation he heard the record of atrocities detailed, which struck at the root of all social order in Ireland ; and he acknow ledged that the moment was come when it must be decided whether the King's Government or agi tation should be put down.—(Tremendous cheering from the Treasury Benches.) The system of outrage had extended into the county of Wexford, which he had the honour to represent—a county, during a long period, dis tinguished for the tranquillity of the inhabitants, their industry, and obedience—and the system had not even what he should never consider as a palliation of crime, the existence of grievous oppression to plead in its defence. It was, in fact, maintained solely by a set of miscreants and vagabonds. He would state one instance of their mode of legislation. They broke open the house of a poor man and placed him on his knees, ordering him to prepare for death. The man asked his offence: they answered, that he bad spoken too freely of their proceed ings, and shot him on the spot. His brains were then beaten out, and the mockery of sending for a clergyman , was next gone through. Was it the constitutional rights of such ruffians the House was about to defend ?—(Great cheering.) To insist on maintaining the guard of law for men who trampled on all law, divine and human— who masked their enacments in characters of blood— was preposterous and absurd. The Hon. Member then defended the Lis!: landlords, and proceeded to say, that on the subject of political agitation he should speak out..— (Hear, hear.) At present the public mind of Ireland was in a state of political delirium.—(Cheers.) In every village there were one or two tyrants; hut, in general, one tyeant stood forth prominently, and called himself the people.—(Loud and vehement cheering.) This gen tleman the people issued his mandates, directing how respectable l ersons should think, speak—whom they were to admit into their houses, and, in short, interfered with every action of their lives. --(Hear, hear.) This was nut a comfortable state of things.—(A laugh.) If the outrages were merely local, they might be put down es in England ; but while Hon. Gentlemen directed all their attention to two parties in Ireland—the movement and murdered parties—they took no notice of the third— the active and revolutionary party.—(Cheers.) This last used the name and influence of the Member for Dublin to promote their purposes, which he firmly believed no one would reprobate with greater energy than that gentleman. It had issued a conciliatory address to the Whitefeet, and how did the title run ? "To the degraded, insulted, and trampled-upon people of Wexford." — (Cheering.) But lie wished to observe that the Bill ought to specify the particular crimes it was intended to punish. Instead of this, what had they ? Open avowals that it was designed to enforce the payment of tithes ; but he, for one, woul d never consent to such measures intended to secure the payment of tithes. On the contrary, he would protest against applying them to any but crimes and the unfor tunate political agitation. With regard to courtsmartial, he could for himself declare, that if he were about to be tried for any political offence affecting his life or property, h e would prefer a courtrnartial to any other local tri bunal. But the people of Ireland entertained for their very names so fixed and determined a horror, that nothing could reconcile their feelings to them. It would be vain to say to them, that the courtsmartial could try for no capital offence, that prisoners would have the aid of the Judge Advocate. Courtsmartial were indelibly asseciated in their recollections with the horrors of 1798.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) If, then, any other mode of trial could be substituted for the formidable and bated courtsmartial, he would support it. The right of making domiciliary visits was one he regarded with much dislike. When lie re flected on the species of persons who were formerly selected for such purposes, and on those from whom they would probably be chosen for the future, he thought it unreasonable to insist on searching the house, if any indi vidual did not appear at the door when called. on. Was it not sufficient that the person by not appearing should b e subjected to heavy penalties ? The outrages, the violence committed on those occasions, did not weigh so much with hint ; but would not the House save the inhabitants of Ireland from the hitter, galling, deadly insult which lace rated the heart?—(Hear.) Ir, his opinion, also, it was hard that no aggrieved person could obtain redress without appealing to the Attorney-General. Why, would not double costs be sufficient? He had a painful but a para mount duty to discharge, and he would discharge it, though he knew the consequence would be, that he would be denounced in Ireland.—(Loud cheering.) Mr. E. TENNANT said that the brigands of Calabria, or the Kleptx of Greece alone could equal the sanguinary bands that ruled Ireland. These bands possessed a power superior to the Constitution, and in appearance of effect far beyond the authority of the King's Vicegerent. He would support the Bill, because he believed it would give efficiency to Government, security to the people, and tran quillity to the nation. The evil required extraordinary mea sures to arrest its course. Crime bad not triumphed from the want of sufficient enactments, but because it was abso lutely imposs hie to put them into force. One recom mendation of the Bill to him was, that it did not increase the penalty for offences. Mr. O'Connell bad himself de- Oared that the Catholics were arming through the North, that society stood on a mine ; it was, therefore, by no means surprising that the loyal inhabitants of that pro vince, which was at another time described by the Hon. Gentleman as a smouldering volcano, should solicit the aid of Government. The Hon. Member for Waterford had told them that these outrages had existed for seventeen years. When, he asked, were they to arrive at a period of termination ? It was said—reform the abuses of Ire land—remedy the evils which exist in its government, and these outrages will cease.—(Hear.) That, indeed, might remove political agitation ; but how, he inquired, would it put a stop to predial disturbance? Would the murderer withhold his knife because tithes were abolished? or the robber forego his trade because the Grand Jury laws were amended ? No_ The provisions of the law were already sufficiently extensive to reach these crimes; but such was the force of intimidation, that witnesses dared not give their testimony, nor jurors convict. The la iture of the necessity fur additional powers was the im punity, not the amount of offences.—(Hear.) It was the impunity which called for their interference ; and the de struction of the impunity would give security where there was now nothing but fear and terror—would inspire the former with confidence—and, as it were, wrest Ireland out of the grasp of some hideous monster. But these additional powers were not all that were necessary to put down disturbance. No ; the ground-work of dis turbance in Ireland was poverty—(Hear, hear)—and pre dial agitation formed the embryo of political agitation. The fiercest agitation would fail of success, if they would only direct their attention to this point. As it was, he found the people reckless from want, and too ready to join in any scheme, however desperate. Let them alleviate the condition of the Irish peasantry—afford them oppor tunities of obtaining remunerative employment—snatch them from starvation—and give a legal maintenance for the helpless and infirm.—(General cheering.) Let them do this, and agitation would cease ; but if they did not do this, the reign of agitation would he perennial.—(Hear.) Mr. FITZGERALD (county Louth) referred to the state of the county of Louth, maireaining that it did not at all warrant the application of such strong measures, The Petty Juries of 'be county of Louth had always dis charged their duty during its niost disturbed state. He called on the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland to give some instances of intimidation in that county. He then proceeded to read a letter to the House from a most re spectable gentleman in the county of Louth, dated (if we heard correctly) in January last, stating that the county had not for some time past been less disturbed than at present. The Hon. Member addressed several other observations to the House, but they were entirely inaudible in the gallery. Viscount DLINCANNON—He should not have in truded on the House at this period of the debate, but for the observations of the Hon. and Learned Gentle ma❑ the Member for Tipperary. But he felt bound, in justice to himself, to answer the question put to him by that gentleman, whether he could support this Bill ? and also whether, front the state of crime in the county of Carlow, he deemed such a measure necessary ? However reluctant he might be to give such a proposal his support, Fe was compelled to say that he did feel it necessary to support this Bill.—(Hear, hear.) He was also hound to say, that the state of crime in Carlow County had lately been much upon the increase, as appeared by the returns made to him as Lord Lieutenant. In fact, in no county had the increase been greater, except in the county of Kil kenny. He had the returns of four quarters, from the Ist of December, 1831, and also the months of December and January last. The first quarter's return of crimes was 46. The return was made by the elief of the police. —(Hear, from Mr. Shell.) Well, the chief of the police was the onl person from whom he could obtain a re turn ; as he said, the return made on the Ist December was 46 ; the second, dated 31st May, was 89 ; the third, 31st August, 68; and the fourth, 30th November, 116. —(Hear.) He had not a complete return for the next quarter, but he had the returns for December, 1832, and January, 1833, and the sum total of the two was 413. (Loud cries of " Hear.") He need not inform the Hon. and Lea:ned Gentleman that Carlow was almost the smallest county in Ireland. The Catholic Bishop of that diocese had used his utmost endeavours to put a stop to this species of Whitefeet outrage, and he had done so success fully within tire last two months. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman asked him whether, under any circum stances, he could support this Bill? He said, certainly; but that he did not support it without reluctance, and only upo❑ the official returns of the state of crime in Ireland. l During great part of list autumn he hail resided in Kil kenny, and from what he had seen there, he felt that it was necessary to pass some measure for the purpose of giving protection to those who had a right to demand it at their hands. He should narrate to the House such facts only as came under his own knowledge. In the county of Kilkenny he found that the most re spectable part of the farmers (he spoke of the lower part of the county), were suffering under a systetn of intimidation. Ile had hearth from many of them (10 or 15 as we understood the Noble Lord) who had oc cupied their farms more than twenty years, that they bad received notices to quit, and that under the species of inti midation to which they were subject, they could not ven ture to hold their farms. Indeed it was a fact, that in the lower parts of Kilkenny a large body of farmers, who had held their farms more than twenty years, had received these notices to quit, and deliver up their farms to certain per sons, named in the notices, upon pain of suffering severe punishment. He had endeavoured to prevail upon them to retain their farms, but failed ; they alleging that those who did so, did it at the risk of personal injury, or at least of having the house attacked, everything in it burned, their cattle houghed, and their property destroyed ; and he was, therefore, under the necessity of suffering them to give up their farms.—(Hear, hear.) This House might, however, be sure that he did not put those in possession of them who were named in the notices. He was, in conse quence of it, obliged to submit to have the land lie waste ; and, indeed, pay some person io keep it waste in order to prevent others from encroaching upon it.—(Heap.) Such is the system of intimidation, that no respectable farmer dare venture to dismiss a servant whom he has received notice to keep, nor to take who he has received notice is obnoxious.—(Hear.) Ile would also say, that many notices were brought to him, containing threats against the tenant if lie consented to pay his landlord more than a certain price for land—such price as they thought proper to fix. With regard to Juries, he knew that those liable to serve on Juries, that the most respect. able farmers used their btst exertions to get exempted. Many had come to him and entreated him for an exemption, alleging that they must submit to one of two alternatives —that if they did their duty as jurymen they would suffer the penalty of destruction to themselves and their families; or if they did not attend, they would have to pay 201. to the Sheriff. Indeed, so great was the re luctance to attend at the assiz-s shortly about to take place, that the Sher 4 of Kilkenny felt it necessary to raise the fine to 30/.—(Hear.) It was because he thought such a state of things ought not to continue—(Hear)—it was because he thought protection ought to he afforded to the helpless and the guiltless Rirsons who were made the vic tims and martyrs of this intimidation, that lie could, most reluctlantly could, notwithstanding the dinibt of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, support this Bill. But he was ready to state to the House on what understanding he did so. He distinctly understood, this measure was not to be applied to the collection of tithe..__( Hear.) He felt con fident, that much of the efficacy to he expected from this Bill depended upon the people of Ireland being quite sure that it would not be applied to such a purpose.—(Hear.) He said this, because, from the observations made to him, lie knew that such an itnpression existed even in the House itself. A misunderstanding seemed to have arisen respecting some remarks of his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland. He had not made any inquiry of his Right Hon. Friend, because he took it for granted that it must be intended to extend the same protection to the ciergy as to every other person in Ireland. If it were not intended to do so, he (Lord Duncannon) thought that the Ministers would be unfit for the rulers of any civilized country. Every one who knows any thing of Ireland knows that menacing notices are gcner-.lly posted tio against obnoxious individuals. He did not state that from what he had read about them, or what he had heard said upon the subject, but he htd personally convinced himself of the fact. The Noble Lord then proceeded to read a notice, which, he observed, he knew of his, own knowledge had been taken from a church door—(Cries of " Name, name," frequently repeated)—with which the Noble Lord complied, observing, that he did not state the name, because it appeared in the document. " NOTICE TO TITHE-PAYERS IN A CERTAIN eARISII IN IRELAND. " You are called on by the Lord Lieutenant to pay the ar rears of tithes for 1831. Beware how you act in this case. The eyes of the people of Ireland are upon you. Now or never! This is the time for you to stand out manfully, in common with the rest of your fellow-countrymen. Remember that Ireland in 1839., is not the same Ireland as in 1798. Gibbets and pitch.caps and triangles were then the order of the day, from one end of the kingdom to the other. Thank God ! the day has arrived when the good sense and energy of the people have put a stop to the proceedings of our unprincipled rulers. We are in. formed that a few of your parishioners have paid the parson. We are acquainted with their names and persons; and let them depend on it, if they do not give satisfaction why they have done so, that some visiter in the shape of Swing, perhaps, will, before long, bring these people to a proper sense of their duty * * * * * * * * * * To the parsons we would say, beware how you be made an instrument in the hands of a Government that is detested by a majority of its own subjects. Remember, that when the Peelers are slumbering in their barracks, and Lord Anglesea carousing in the castle of Dublin, the people will be at their post! You parsons, if you persist in goading the people, may meet your fate when you least expect it—and that without your seeing the hand. writing on the wall' to forewarn you of your doom. Take this as a last and friendly warning.—Signed by order, " A TITHE HATER." When notices of this sort are posted, it cannot surely be pretended that the country is quiet. It cannot be argued that Ministers ought to disregard such threats as those directed against individuals entitled to protection. Pro tection, it must be evident from such circumstances, must be afforded by some such a law as that which is now proposed. He trusted that this Bill would produce im mediate and permanent peace, so as to give ministers an opportunity of proceeding to some measures of redress for the numberless grievances of which the people of Ireland justly complain, and for which they had been promised redress by every successive G ivernment. Unless there were a❑ alteration in the tithe system, he (Lord Duncan non), for one, thought they could never hope for tran quillity in Ireland. He was convinced also—although he differed in that from many of his colleagues—that there were imperative reasons that Parliament should be called upon to make some provision for the p00r.....-(Hear.) He had stood up merely to say, that the Right Hon. Secre tary's observations differed materially from what appeared to he ascribed to him. Mr. BUCKINGHAM rose ; hut, from the confusion and cries which were raised from all quarters of the House, it was totally impossible to catch the purport of a single sentence. He at last observed, that if the House would not permit him to proceed, he should move an adjourn ment, which he accordingly did : and on its being seconded, The SPEAKER put the question as an amendment. Lord ALTHORP thought it somewhat unusual for an Hon. Member to attempt to adjourn the business of the House, merely because he was not attended to quite so much as he wished. If he bad had more experience in the House, the Hon. Member would not have proposed to adopt such a course. For his own part, he (Lord Althorp) heard perfectly well what he said. He hoped the Hon. Member would not persist in his motion. Mr. O'CONNELL hoped the lion. Member would be heard with attention. He thought the candour of the Noble Lord might have admitted there was some little dis turbance while he was speaking. Though be had been listening, he had not heard three sentences, and many on his side of the House were in the same situation. He considered half past eleven too early an adjournment. They had heard those who supported the measure, and it was right to hear these who opposed it. He concluded by advising Mr. Buckingham to withdraw his motion. He might renew it if the House did not listen to him. Mr. I3UCKINGHANI said he should be happy to re sume his speech. He did not object on personal but on public grounds. His objection to courtsmartial was, that crime might be punished by civil as well as by military tribunals.—(Cries of " Question.") It was no less for the good of England than for that of Ireland. The Hon- Member continued to be indistinctly heard in the gallery. Mr. WARD said the proposal to adjourn the House at half-past eleven, came with a very bad grace from the Hon. Member, who had proposed to limit the time of each Member's speaking to a quarter of an hour, when he had himself exceeded that time. How had the brunt of the debate been allowed to fall on the minor fry of the de baters (of which he allowed that he was one) ? The Op position attempted in vain to obscure a subject, over which the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland had shed so over whelming a flood of light. He now begged leave to state succinctly why he disapproved of the amendment of the Hon. Member, which he described as unmeaning and pro crastinating. An inquiry had been demanded by the lion. Members on the other side, and in particular by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, when they knew that evidence could not be given honestly at the bar of that House, without the destructio❑ of the party who gave it. He would be denounced, proscribed, and compelled to pass his life an exile from his country. It would not be in the power of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, to quell that spirit which sprung from the agitation of which he was the centre. It was important that the Irish people should know that it was the wish of English Mem bers to do justice to Ireland. They only required that an end should be put to the agitation of a question which would be injurious to the greatness and prosperity of Ire • land. They would not support ambition ; but if the Hon. Member for Dublin brought forward any practical means of improvement, they would go any length is its favour. They wished redress to accompany coercion, for in that lay the difference between the conduct of the Re formed Parliament and of the Grey Ministry, and the Po lish delinquencies of the Emperor of Russia. Govern ment were pledged to measures of improvement. But the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin should show them a little good faith in return (he meant nothing personal). He should abandon that phantom which would for ever elude his grasp. English Members would do every thing for the good of Ireland, but nothing for ambition. He was sure in this that he spoke the sentiments of the great ma jority of the English Members. Mr. BAYNTUN said, as he would shortly be called upon to vote on this most important question, if he did not with regret pursue a different course to what he ge nerally had followed since he had a seat in this House, in opposing his Majesty's Ministers, he should not have offered any observations to the House, knowing, as he well must, that most other Hon. Members would be lis tened to with greater attention. He should, therefore, state as conci , ely as possible the reasons why he should support the proposition of the Right Hon. Member for Lambeth, which, if carried, would amount, he thought, to a defeat of this measure. The Noble Lord (Althorp) a nd the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland in his able and most eloquent speech of the first day's debate, stated to the House that the sole justific lion the Ministers of the Crown could give to the country for the proposition they offered was the ground alone of a stern and arbitrary neoess-I—a necessity which left them no alternative but to make this application to Parliament to give them powers be yond the law, to provide for the security of life and property of the subject out of the confines of the Constitution. Now let us sec how they have attempted to prove this propo sition—By detailing any overt acts of treason, or civil conspiracies, or rebellions in Ireland, levelled against the dominion and sovereignty of the Government ? No ; but by exhibiting a long catalogue of offences and crimes, mu - tiers, midnight burglaries, burning*, and illegal notices, which unquestionably have been perpetrated, but which the regularly-constituted tribunals, with the real assistance of the gentlemen of Ireland, he believed to be sufficient to quell. That crimes existed in Ireland to a tremendous extent—that burglaries and midnight assassinations were mightily on the increase —was, perhaps, unhappily true ; hut let him ask every thinking man to what were these horrors to be attributed ? Why, the Noble Mover of the address to his Majesty, on the first night of the session, had anticipated one answer. He said Ireland had been oppressed by centuries of misgovernment, and this assertion was not more borne out in fact than by the circumstance of that sort of tardiness which had been observed and acted upon by all suc ceeding Governments to propose any measure having a tendency to allay the grievances, and remove the acknow ledged unheard deprivation and misery, existing to such an extent in that unfortunate country. Another reason appeared to him—the non-residence of the upper classes in that country ; that absenteeism, which drew the pro duce of the labour and toil of the poor man from the pro perty in Ireland, and spends it elsewhere and in England: and although he should be as nnwilling as the Right Hon. Member for Tamworth to assent to a tax of 50 per cent., as one of a most tyrannical nature, on those living out of the country, whose property was chiefly there ; yet, if that country was so oppressed by misery, as, for the pre vention of outrage and crime produced by positive distress, measures of coei cion be necessary, he would readily as sent to the levy of some tax of that nature, with a view of alleviating ever so small a part of that misery. If, however, neither the Noble Mover of the Ad dress (the Member for Perthshire) was right as to his conclusions of misgovernment, if he was wrong in supposing that, to distress and wretchedness, were attributable also those melancholy facts upon which they were about to legislate, but that the outrages and intimi dation were the fruits of political agitation--of those po litical associations anti their acts, by which the country was under a system of union of feeling, and seemed de termined for the attaintnent of more Reform, for the sake of the people, why not show, before they had recourse to the coercive and arbitrary measures, a real and not pro mised disposition to remove the shameless and foul abuses existing in the State, and deprive the agitators of their plea of action by showing the people of the country that a kind system of policy, the dictates of humanity and jus• rice, reigned pre-eminently amongst the opinions of the advisers of the Crown, and were now being exemplified by their actions and propositions in that House ? But in ill-fated Ireland (for ill fated she had always been), whenever they turned towards the view of her many grievances, and the fancied remedies, the mere experiments, which have, from time to time, been most slowly applied, instead of a systematic and Statesman-like measure, such as would be calculated at once to apply a healing salve to her wounds, and to main tain the true principles of civil liberty ;—instead of such measures, they had attempted, bit by bit, here and there, patchwork propositions which had been of little or no avail ; and be asserted, and would uphold, that to grant to a nation one measure of conciliation, however great and important might be its nature and effects—such, for in stance, as the Bill so long fought for, for the relief of the Roman Catholic disabilities—to do so was not less impo litic, less ignorant, and less cruel, than to give to a starv ing family the means wherewith to procure one meal, and then to presume that by that one act, that isolated act of charity-, they had saved that whole family from future distress and necessity. He said, then, if this proposed mea sure, containing, as it does, every feature of severity and infliction, was not levelled against the outrages and crimes only, but against these associations and political unions in Ireland, or against others, the more immediate patrons of these meetings, show to the people that whilst they did this, as purporting to be the law of the land and the will of Government, they were alike sensible of their distresses, anti determined, by their remedial propositions to this their House of Representatives, to endeavour to suggest to Par liament, if not first, as he thought they should be, at least pari passu, with the equal certainty of carrying them through both Houses, those extensive reforms, the want of which was, with the agitators themselves, the excuse for the agitation to which you ascribe these outrages and this discontent. He saw no other end but that of tyranny in these measures, and he was reminded o an eloquent passage of Chatham, who, on a similar occa sion, said "It is true that there is violence—that there is ex citement—that there is even sedition—but no man can persuade me that there is not liberty on one side and tyranny on the other." He was astonished at the language of the Lion. Member for Leeds, who represented the people as unfit for liberty ; and at that of the Right Hon. Gentle mar., who said that they must be feared in order to be loved ; and when he heard them using these expressions, be could hardly persuade himself that these were the men who, but a few months since, had advocated so eloqnently the cause of popular Reform. He was not so much asto nished at the sentiments which fell from the Right Hon. Baronet (the Member for Tamworth), for that Right Hon. Gentleman was but advocating the course which he had pursued when in office. He had been, however, astonished at the sentiments expressed by the Noble Lord (the Paymaster of the Forces), who had not always held the same language as at present. In a book published by . _ _ . the Noble Lord some time since, that Noble Lord had deli vered his opinion on public liberty in a manner different from that in which he had spoken in the House : " Thus the House of Commons more than once has met, perfectly disposed to bear its part in passing any measures of severe coercion, which the Ministers of the day thought fit to propose. It was thus that, in 1795 and in 1799, laws were passed to prohibit public meetings without a sufficient autho rity, and to prevent printing, unless under certain regulations. In 1817 these measures were renewed, and in 1819 their seve rity has been much increased, The measures resorted to on these occasions, may be classed under two heads, both of them sanctioning methods, in my mind, injudicious, and one extremely dangerous. " The first is the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act. Now, this is a very proper precaution, when a con spiracy is carried on by a few principal leaders whose imprisonment puts an end to the plot. But it h no re medy at all, when the evil consists in the discontent of some thousands of unemployed manufacturers. lino avulso non deficit alter : the subalterns, in conducting these popular humours, are fully as able and audacious as the chiefs. The other remedy consists in new laws, restraining the right of speak- ing and writing. Acta of this kind interpose obstacles to public meetings and public newspapers, and serve to dim_ countenance, for a time, by the authority of Parliament, the abuses of liberty which have prevailed. But it is manifest, that it is impossible to prevent sedition and blasphemy, unless all freedom of speech and the liberty of the Press be extin guished. It is impossible to provide beforehand, by Act of Parliament, that all speeches and writings shall keep within the bounds of loyalty and moderation. Therefore the restraining laws are, except for the moment, inefficient. They are also pernicious, for they admit a principle, which if pushed to its full extent, authorizes a censorship of the Press. " Whilst every opinion may be professed, some will always be found hostile to religion and to Monarchy ; and whenever the country is visited with distress, those upon whom misfor tune falls, will for a time give a willing ear to any thing which professes to be a plan for their relief. " It would seem, however, on the other hand, that we have now gone as far as it was possible to go safely upon the system of restraint. If blasphemy and sedition again alarm the timid, they must be suppressed by the ordinary laws: otherwise we must either admit a censorship, or surrender the present mode of trial by Jury. " It is to be hoped, that rather than adopt either of these tyrannical expedients, England would impeach the ➢linister who should give such atrocious advice to his Sovereign. " It is a consolation, however, to think that if the people of England are really determined to preserve their liberties, the laws afford means amply sufficient to quell sedition. They only require a firm and even hand to exercise them; new Statutes on the subject of the Press can only be the resort of Statesmen weak enough to take advantage of it for the destruction of their country's freedom." lie objected to the principle of the Bill, and therefore should . . net trouble the House with going into any discussions of its details. He objected to it because the case was not made out justifying such a measure. He objected to it because it exhibited this first Reform Parliament in the un- gracious act of holding over the people a rod of iron, in. stead of extending towards them the hand of charity.— (Hear, hear.) He opposad this measure, because he thought it was contrary to reason—it was adverse to every principle of benevolence or justice, and utterly at variance with the sound dictates of reason and morality.—(Hear.) Mr. O'DWYER said, that in the few observations with which he meant to trouble the House, he should endeavour to show the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, that the amendment which had been moved was not quite so silly as he supposed. Its object was, in fact, to give Parliament the opportunity of knowing whether the statements of the Noble Lord and the Right Hon. Gentleman were or were not well founded. The House had listened to much idle declamation ; he should now give them a few facts, which, in his opinion, would he found altogether to controvert those statements. A. far as the assizes in Ireland had hitherto proceeded, every allegation of the members of the Government as to the disturbed state of the country had been negatived ; the charge of every Judge at every Assizes had been delivered in support of the principle, that the existing laws were sufficient to meet the exigencies of the occasion. At the Clare Assizes, Judge Jebb, who, he believed, would be proclaimed by gentlemen on the other side of the Hour as a Judge of the right sort, " congratulated the Jury on the essential difference between the condition of the county then and when be bad last addressed them. There was then a special commission, which had been called for on account of its disturbed sate, but now it SV!I9 perfectly peaceable. As to the crimes which he saw in the calendar, t'i , re were none that might not be expected in every state and in every country.'—(Hear, hear, hear.) At the assizes at Meath, a Judge whose character in that House h t:t t At the Longford Assizes, Judee Moore , a prerogative must be well known, and who must be known as one not violently attached lo popular institutions.—he mean t Chi e f Justice D ilierty—told the Grand Jury that " nothing ap ple Crown e , aredoa the ho face , of the ale for r'nor observations i n t from theentries im i . law yer—he who had sentenced con amore those who refused to ply t ith es — e xpr e ssed himself to the same effect. He (Mr. O'Dwyer.) was reminded that the sentences he had hook to call c, a n n d y a • allud e d to were light—perhaps they might be, but they were passed fur the cause be had mentioned. Judge Moore congratulated the Grand Jury of the county of Ling• ford on the quiet state of the county, and hoped to see a state of peace existing, by the operation of the laws of the lond, without having recourse to any ineaetire that were not consistent with the principles of the Consti , tution.—(Hear, hear.) Then again, the Chief Justice himself, addressing the Grand Jury of Drogheda, the place which he (Mr. O'D.) bad the honour to represent, ex pressed himself in similar term,. Now Drogheda was lo cally situate in the county of Louth—in that very county in which the Right Hon. Secretary had found so much cause for asking far extraordinary powers to be conferred on the Government, because one man had actually refused another a winnowing machine that had been lent him foe 20 years before.—(A laugh.) He ought to mention b e e sides, that the gaol of Drogheda had not been deliveted for the last 12 months. He believed that disease dial exist in it to a considerable extent, but the prisoners were lei:. there to take their chance of perishing, while the Judge, who no doubt drew his salrry very regularly, never went near them to deliver the gaol. That li tie fact would dive the House some idea of the way in which justice was ad minivered in Ireland. But at this town and county of a town of Drogheda, the Chief Justice thus expressed him self—" There are fifty-two prisoners in your calendar; large number for so peaceable a town and county. ThC crimes, however, with which they are charged art mot dl a na'ure to call for any observations from me. Thert , ie only one charge of murder—a sister is charged witi, Mg her sister. The rest of the offences are fur petty theft: and trifling assaults. Ido not find one charge of White. troyism in the calendar, which is a credit to your town and county."—(Hear, hear, hear.) Perhaps the House would think it but natural that there should be no charge of that sort in a town ; but, then, he ought to inform them that the jurisdiction of Drogheda, as a county of a town, was very extensive. After all these came the charge of Baron Smith. He had no objection to a Learned Judge writing an essay. It might be a little too full of antithesis; and it might be one in which the writer interlarded his little law with epicrammatic tore, with extracts from the Dunciad, and, forgetful some. what of his judicial gravity, even with couplets from flu. , dibras ; and it might be one in which the writer took ‘d vantage of the opportunity to vent his spleen on every in dividual who had given him annoyance.—(oh !) He WS* a young roan, and should not have said what he had dondi but di it the Learned Baron had not only uttered hie charge, but printed it ; and having done so, and thus made himself and his observations public property, he had aright availing himself of the privilege of the House, to treat it as a document coming from any other quarter. He regarded it as he did another production of the same kind, when some men were put upon their trial at Dublin, and a simi , far charge was made on the subject of the offence of which they were accused. He asserted, that it was an unfair interference with the administration of jurice, an interfer • once that was absolutely disgraceful. The Baron, however,fal sified all the assertions of the Right Hon. Geetlemaa, about the law of the land not being sufficient. The charge referred to former disturbances, with the same degree of feirness with which the Right Hon. Secretary had referred to a barbarous murder committed twenty years ago, as a justification for the present measures. Was it, be asked, fair in that Right Hon. Gentleman thus to appeal to na tional prejudices, in a House already sufficiently prejudiced on this question?—(Oh! Hear, bear.) Baron Smith, in this charge to the Grand Jury, said, with reference to the special commission, " In like manner, under the auspices of the present Jury system, tranquillity was restored to Clare and to some other counties by special commission, at which Judges Moore and Jebb pre sided." That showed that these extraordinary powers were not wanted. He should now quote a letter from the Roman Catholic Primate of Ireland, whose excellent character eas well known to every body, and whose testi mony was entitled to the greatest weight, because he was not in the least degree an agitator. Indeed lie was opposed to all interference with politics. He should read that doe current at length.—(oh, oh.) He moved an adjourn. went. (The Hon. Member, however, did not persist in his motion, but continued his speech.) Was it possible that the House, who had listened attentively to the con tents of that box, and who had cheered the Right Hon. Secretary when he read a foolish ballad—was it possible that such a House would not listen to the observations of such a man as Dr. Kelly? The letter was dated on the 25th of February, some days subsequent to that of Sir Patrick Bellew, which the Right Hon. Secretary had quoted. There was some matter in the letter that told as much against him as for him, and therefore he should read it throughout. It was his duty to give it them untnutilated. The writer said, "As to the county and town of Drogheda, which you represent in Parliam, nt, I hive no hesitation in saying, that a more peaceable place cannot well be found, notwithstanding the want of em ployment, and the extreme misery of a large body of its inhabitants." The writer proceeded to state that a great portion of the discontent which existed in Ireland arose from the expectation excited by the measures of the late Parliament respecting tithes, and the subsequent enforce ment instead of the abolition of tithes. The Catholic Bishops in Ireland had done all in their power to prohibit illegal and secret societies, well knowing their injurious tendency ; but sinless justice was rendered to the Irish people by redressing their grievances, all such efforts would be wholly unavailing. If even-handed justice were rendered to the people, the writer expressed his perfect confidence that the laws would be respected, and that the ordinary powers of the Constitution would be found am ply sufficient to repress crime, and to preserve the public peace. Having read several other passages from this do cument, the Hon. Member stated that it was in his power to adduce satisfactory evidence that, although crime. and turbulence might have increased in Ireland, they had also increased in England. Of this fact the numerous burn ings afforded sufficient proof.—(Hear, hear.) But had his Majesty's Government come down to that House for powers respecting England similar to those which they demanded respecting Ireland ? Adverting to the relations uetween the labouring and the higher classes in Ireland, iie admitted that the latter had done their duty. The cause had been well described by an English writer, Mr. Bicheno, who stated that the Irish gentry had been spoiled as a class; that whenever any disturbance or in surrection arose in Ireland, in consequence of a pressure tar tithes or rent, away went the army to quell it; and the gentry were never left to their own efforts at concilia tion. He felt it impossible to contemplate the atrocious nue sure introduced by his Majesty's Government without ex citement. He contemplated it with the feelings which na turally influenced every man who bad a love for the land of his birth. He contemplated it with an apprehension hat he should witness a revival of those scenes of cruelty rud devastation which had been exhibited in Ireland not many years ago, when that unhappy country was given ty to all the oppression of magisterial authority, and all the horrors of martial law._ He would not attempt to enter into any analysis of the Bill, but he would tell the people of England that they could not be too much alive to its in famous details. It took away from the subject that which had always been considered as the charter of English li .ierty—the Trial by July. It took away from the sub ject that invaluable privilege—the Habeas Corpus. It took away from the subject all the benefits of a legal tribunal, and surrendered him to all the tender mercies of a court martial. He and his friends disclaimed all personal hos tility to his Majesty's present Government. On many points there was and had been a kindred and sympathetic feeling between them. But if the question were, whether the Ministry or the Constitution should perish, he would exclaim, "Let the Ministry perish, but let the Constitu tion live !" The former might easily be replaced ; nor would it be necessary to have recourse to Political Unions for that purpose. That House must have been very in sufficiently reformed if it did not contain many indivi i:uals of whom a go d and valuable Government might be composed. The Hon. and Learned Memt•er concluded by thanking the House for the kindness with which they had listened to hitn.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Mr. ATTWOOD rose to move an adjournment.— (Conflicting cries of " Adjonrii, adjourn ;" G o on, go on.") Mr. LEFROY said he was desirous of replying to the unjust attack which had been made on the character of one of the Judges of Ireland; but to do so he must quote documents of some length. He was in the hands of the House, whether to proceed then, or to defer his statement. Th were The cries ow es of more ' Adjour n, loudly r e newed. adjourn, " Lord ALTHORP said he h ad no ob j ection to ad j our n , is it was nut likely that t h e discussion could be clo sed that night.wndl and " Go on, go (in, to. fl m e ormw wasa night, u nless, he he tru s t e d, t h e H ouse indeed that it mi g h t nut b e closed