The Sun. — London, England, 1831-02-12 00:00:00

c, ~ -at., ___„,_ Noble Lord I t h em t o prep..- - si . Vnuld have been b found to have made the tranefer. The under the c.olni der rr ad talked of bona fide transfers-in eid name of and he should real o r . the e.. God how was he to distinguish between bona :erupted to g O 4 ..•••"-", e and other transfers ? He really knew not; and if he were ut with respect: o e e 4 der th ,_ enecessity of notgetting • his money transferred ii l's speech he nut e . .. to ~..s tocks without rguments of thaZia,turi tte mA , g , . t paying this enormous tax, he should be . loan mtn . ty cautious of lending it ; nor did he know any when he exP lein 0 1 '1 33 0 , W l2O would not think twice before be lent his of taxes. The .. aft . ~ e ,.. . / If, the h in printed c otter , 4 . -on, for instance , n when there were contracts in Lon titiochniillaus of millions of stands of arms, luwer classes ; hit t ' of yards of cloth, could any prudent man ated his ineentia n trt j li tr e to i lot __ . t _ enter into such contracts, if be could : 4 1oble Lord took (''' re • t __„, e h_ft hat sort of credit which his respe •IT 1 eta ii ity am ime, though 1 w. r ; it sr cter had heretofore entitled him to get, but which arment of the Pe ° s i e could . cot of th not by any possibility get if the funds all the plain „00 I'h o the country fuudia were not made available to him. nk that the poa r ' k ite 0f " g system promised to keep the peace one that they 'l ° t d h. the si va is 0 ,. whole of Europe; as to war, for r tvas the arg o p it , tie -0 Part he had never been aware of it, nor had aience of keePing ths t lv, t o . nation the power which this country had of a small duty, ''' w it h conte n d . , en g st 9 1 Illai nta . . With in war but nothing short of , quite consistent wo o ea 'rung t h ' „ e dignity and the honour of the osition o f 3 d°' .. seUntry , t olli i d p would ever again induce England to enter the .is reduction o' •ol ___ Ao et e ., ut battle. The funding system it was that ;11 were the p1r .. .1,4, ° '"ed con c i ntion England this superior strength.-(Hear.)._l n ments could seinot er. Vim, ,ith . be hoped the Noble Lord would consult espect to the til t __,eo, to th ose %.e individuals who had no interest rn timber he intw or t to the b e 81 !IJ et, but who (and many there were of the peoPl e ' t ool' . o f e 0 quet eN . found ) could tell him all the conse heo this expence lic so , t e; measure. They were so important, se taxes on glag e e ' te eer i tn inc onveni e 'held Petihi e e ntt and so severe that it would be took it, that i i on, t. to escape from them. The only remedy people 1 in timbee.--c •el th • have of then was to timbers( 'thei r inane keeping their credit would be, to keep e House to the 4 9y he in their own pockets ; and he should toOttglad retnare nt e ntry with a rising trade, ae to cripple ad the Statute g` . a d ibe 'ire this 8 . Re felt great reluctance to oppose any inea- Government llu opposelS Gover nm en t might propose, but he should lively (let/rodeo', . lei, to a otiti njurio P i resent measure, because he thought it would be r he could s atisfy to a particular class of persons who ought not 'was more ilitt l e l i j ot )* sele c t ed 's tr eats , to : suffer, and calculated to destroy the best runts that it ' lc. r Y' / rll' e I tt AP sftlety lic faith, and •°, ~,, fee r• -I rALIERL . tbe country, to iin o i fie uf e i i Y said, that in his opinion the trans drilin 4, 4 , 0 property of every description ought to be free y in the public ' te le? :en by surprise hY t loj _ Iv hi s ::' la• and he hoped the ip 0,,_ resolution on that subject. He still Noble Lord would with he 6 4 _ yof making reductions by increasing the he p et upo u n P a nr!ssive. He thought an additional tax might so that he vis' a it i t e ttet t'Porto n i t ter as to express "• - is i is able to wail s ' He threw out this hint that it might le for any une to 1 .4te1l ennoi trits. in Committee. With respect to the stility than he 7,4 0. 4 4 eti " of the red of tp, per., a expenditure, particularly that on tobacco, funded propertP tkt would go the full length • stall . b the 1 , ,T I‘, and coals, he orturtity of _,,j. t it ill N o bl e Lord, I • ' him his I oer heard props- P Per t e Objectionable proposition of taxing transfers of pro x was the boldeet.r,A ititi khi e L' o d t would be reconsidered, and he was sure ipe, that the GI" 0 0 d would be convinced of the propriety of a surplus ins ~t, ed d . 4l rasei n . rreatest astonish? _ i , iti o „ e , g that proposition. He also objected to the 4,,•"" dut y on raw cotton. continuance of le era several isl e l i oes to i f Y to nthers rose at the same time, but gave a peace po J t y 1, k i . Such bad been' if ' pr a • IC. D o , 0 , posit. UGLAS-He said that in his opinion the nd Tierney m e t 44 ti I°4B of the Noble Lord were founded in the greatest . esolution oft''‘ .` ,ho ' -ee ; or h , beet , an , c would go farther, and say they were dis- tvide for the °' ' ;0 01 , 7qa t i n ,_," ,0 the country would think ,rhea b en they became ion of the oa t } b 1 • I ti d " With them. The Noble Lord haa not ex ,it Was absolutioi t 1 4; 4 ,1 to the House whether be intended to doss of not less / er f tie 'lle thtransfers fiat had conaj u r yo st e Pro Petty i NI , Petty of joint stock companies, Bank stock, 1 y t ;. he thought, if that was not explained, of money in the saving banks, of necessary a n ,11. the 1 ,_ , a .Propert of theirs had b 64, - , A , S' '"..a. 1 a `ernent jeot of a sinking w e y „ ttar e erne _ h t would appear before the public t stie s, erwould lead to the belief that such was his in iblic creditor, bu t htl 4 l si I."' He therefore sita be e , Oa thatierefore hoped that an explanation would ae by means ° t. - e l point. He (Mr. Keith Douglas) iods when the I°`/ 0 14 'ill e ,biected to the equalization of the duty on add be able ta g , ltOp a distinction penditure, by e • .la i l ' kaaott.ed fro__ our ought to be made between that r own colonies from that of foreign they bad done 1° att 1 ,1 !Pes. W e in' t e the , regretted that no allusion had been marre iving of threeen_a „ th e Noble Lord indies to the distress that existed in other instsalit le 4 west After some further observations, OD and a half' o ffi‘ r i l ' it re ". 14 etriber * said that he should give the resolutions be tax on the . 1. 1 1 °14 d eulded )16 tr. Alder and determined opposition. i n on stitne _m_ an THOMPSON oould not, in justice to said that the 11 : 10 1 o : Zeri tt a n fe ta x s let the present discussion pass over with- I been distinga fete observations , and expressing his opposition ctions which tb re ° o 4l lesil t i e tt Pro • position of the Noble ful With stt oe , trao,f Lord for laying a tax • f a r t o e . 0 0,0 , itilei t to er of funded property. If the public cre ti relied,th er on the justice of Parliament at a time notmtbsinokmethst t' le ' the c onsidered the reduction of the 5 per cents. to treat them 1 4 0° ' 11 4 4 1 1 • 44 tt bf g 1t,.. litie t t , 4 per cents. to 3.1, they then relied upon the e must berie o _4 .0.4 t„ nat no alteration would b made onthe us the best I"; f_leu t di NUJ a , r eveat red to the proposition. He was conSdent of the Canada' si ". greatest dissatisfaction in the city of any that caol e t ,iji s e ette e n 'l ntl aford the a precedent for the Minister of next year, y been occuP'w-e 'sitr e -he La i b t.. . tete pal , g t be, to come down to the House and lay nprovements '" P , 0 , Any tti e ,_ ' B 2 of one, two, , 41 4 44 i i r a t o ver of the funded or three per cent. If this tax entry should til e for property were to take place, it thought that t iv oli t i ( ti t : %h e t ° the p. effect of ri • riving capital out of this country rong, but be t e ptq k ar, l c , wh er e in to . , o hs .. ea t . ) i; the Government did not interfere.-. ing so much, o,es: at, 'bol t e al%)-He was quite satisfied with the ether. Tneni i t , . ) t, of 0 ot; 7,, tit if the reduction of coals, candles, glass, we carried on , eroo , , t ..,_ accompanied t eitP o i l ;st ee - . 4 o n t he measure was to be • • • d gn trade was , 0 te is eetie t ,,. the transfer of funded property, lie was sure ito sacrifice it di t , nNe ea '7 'W ou l d ~.e s to o t,,,.. . to, much rather that things should remain We had a.' t n o state that ~1 ,e, i n at they were at present than I • lave any ur conirnercl s e ( ) as t , tJ, e „ MI. es by allosving ;O r/ th . 4 ta „`IIIDT T ,,,, •est v .st se • 'sol•EY agreed that want of good faith re going to # f _.f. le tt . ire pl nu ns national • imputation ; and if he thought :her advantag e ltro te l 14 , h an °f the Noble Lord was liable to such an ob t at all.--( 11e$ ; o f r 4 144 h e w ant(' h e . Lettsl; ‘ , p oWer eev one of the first to resist it. He con d's ,roposition , r 0 __ A O f 1",1 1 I ‘ei a .' , th at p u 2,.. the income tax was just as much a sly aPPr ev " tto nsiotit tip" been lirealai, and the property of the fundbolder yon raw en be A ii„ .. thee. , er, subjected reduction di t oct e t •""op s red s eas to taxation, the course now safer of land es 'ltt e f ;Z e n: eti also bile violation.-(Hear, hear.) It was of funded pr ° r - ibe r i he , h e .. With refs a corresponding tax upon all landed 0 , ,rence to the t . ques ion of a sinking l not know b e tr e ( tli o tule ta , "gnt with r intlitht that our 1 the Noble Lord that there ought to e considered biro? at the Pus ; but after many discussions, he ne day, and 11° 0 the t ke n .„,, e ti a , , N t h, se ee „...,propriety of keeping up a sinking fund ,id be rapum i j be .0 et , ..., i . a t ~ ,t at ,„ -n olly combatted. If a sinking fund were the tax wo n „, or t i f !ilk", etas- Y ti the . 11 on insurane-ii et 41 7 ) i f vei k ~' of the it ought not to Ire pressrved in the ought not to be awed into any such ear. .,_ why dt .f. , se tic:n. 4 , o -4 4 of absolute country. It was now a matter of ) e_e.(o`..ros for. d i 'Y o n te necessit to remove taxes press cat once • A ate , ee ke .at 14. ~..e peopl e , , although he was most ready to were i n g ooe ro se tt ee log ere attent d to sell their Peri to4, l4 s 4 Noim e b y thre a t °Wig • t r a ' Atha th e B of insurrection. No man could who were tbeie,e e go, ee • condition of the working classes three settlement 0 0 0. 10 , 10. ;s i Pabli -about being aware that the time must come hter 0 • 011 "rte r # Nktlat i e Ceti. aug f og g . 4 0 1 1. f 0 Tea of eve would • . . require general alleviation. r class of pe , , 0 1 , - • „, of o:tilat L the Noble Lord were admirably calcu e meant e t as, 4 1 1 SiApt u-Ject, and Ground-OW/ V I ,Gue„ n _ amply redeemed the pledges of ,don, bad of 0 iledit Is t 1 4se .st•tEt.......wient -_(Hear.) rtY ve i 0 4 op e t ,, h4 ereeded concur with most Hon. Members )f prope e a, , tf , bai 1 Ine, that it is in mitotic!' y r . .. 0 , gi v t o . ' eratio n of Why were tbfetioK 4 , iet v b e retoi,,ot. the details of most of the /axes v ~, pt' ,w eil ne sehi ent " ti l! until we have bad the opportunity Clisucellor, 0 ,e , gr. itt ll tr et e lel e entitled let mature deliberation to which it er House, A a J I , t,, t th, ou g h t • In the • atu ra ,, s , commutation of taxes this i millions Co ottrlO 4: t ea U ter • be Co ell s 4, of t , in , ait S to be borne in mind-that there cos on t v et t ` of 14 "te r the 'ng that is commutation, that you will double tb 3 0 10 of! I, tOti 4 dVant r oe ti o , vt l . 4 Y p Ole an i age upon the party you intend to obe the v t it esti rov ed tne eonsu e to e sceP e so 0 0 0 I, l ;ai t , tie's th a t v. _ . Iner. Experience has fre. .. 0. ,, l i i , N ee s ~'u t o the consume :e rice of the commodity has not had put 3 t . and i ti d o s! r P ; k g .. 0, th ': n e t be Iv. er, while the whole additional e w s glad' td p ea i Publi c .aY Into the pocket of the retailer. d grievou 9 , e i f tl ie sot a ,. trip otit , ls subjected to a new . charge on account ist the as' i t iool/ 1 t t .,!'et t " Wis e le n, and is .a . ot to gain a corresponding their itoP °9 be 4 - N . t Yo e n that i be I 1 , 4t , tua of wi , tnposition is removed, pro tante them to a the at th 4 1 to confer • to ris not communicated. The „ tile P or e , ~..,.1.,,z011%,,,..e /ter tax, among nxiety 0 - - , se t , . o ft s h. 7 4 1 - ' 1 it o( Cer cities not ,use nail i d, 11 1 ,0 4 ~i 714 4 :4, rei d es i red ; and benefit to the degree that nd this fact ought to lead us aliment ' v ide ° it ° 1 1N ea Y t ° co • the 0 4 it r Itt e ,4 h v Peei en , consider the articles on which it had seen i k ' 41 's ' the No t ° repeal taxes. As to the articles sin measu re iv / 1 11 4 t to kle h e ble s, ow, 4 ,.., 1 , le o i n Lord there are some which, if ace w ° c olling P; lk to Y eh % a condition to the 0./ L oN 4 su mi en, it . it to bear the repeal, have were clear) y established that ty of saY i t fo r I ( tiNti, % th e n surplus ,, „ o r; 0v A t 4i , h t ten revenue that •n e might at once surer 0 - o a . 0 -et er, i for r I,4 sion o f . s a 0 10 y Il i kl l eer ) (Teal than taxes, no duty stands more r gerou , .„, ot it's 4 4 .......N . that u 1.) efe ' t ' t be, t i le 1 / 4 ra,: i i , O le. °th ing . mot Pon sea-borne coal.- the 1•1 06ee tleol9l',ll I \ l k e i u Y in pined situation e f s more difference in the di his s itu / stt ° fi IN Ykt 4e qual'it recurin g fuel, the people of this country Lord i l di. Of t 04 ( , 11 4 at e Y, 3 , , in .., a . In food and lodging there lie i n- P r y N'ttr y Pend ele ePtin v • I p re less, iron, the cheapness of in t • t li tr i t a upon gln cases of last t° wi yi ols e ll 7 4 4° l e the n th e ~,,,,a _ extreme poverty ; but oti ntrY 0 o %1 1 41 04 . Y 1 100 Ortttaar means of. procuring fuel. It seems ', u d r ive° t l i et / ( spt tis 4 1 e O th e d , Y Principles of •U 9 t • • j ice to impose a tie as , A, i ‘ iti,oriditie_ istricts wher . „ e r yes rw' re etk i ► o f , lOetilti °of th e , e coal is produced, and '" f the a y Ve a It I ,_ ea are , w h ole population is inured j iv ° ~,s k i d ~ Of „"e Ooli, throw n • :fund' 1. el I ° .11 ) .u tir I to be oh • in the way of procuring . to v .0e . ., ~,,,„ r ig e , eh tained by the • • poor pilfering the go were d e r. 11 , 1 1 tN s. th , Uev olte er eighbOUrB . WOUl d U . , ' 0 4 " Vl' h• Propri confounded • , t h e principles of right ii, Ain i tt lot. e l , , etor and - "ill-will is produced be ender any _ fete ' e s l i e horo, _,O soft, tea . the person whose necessity tran' ai res o 0 10,0, t are and animosit . ' large . e t oi,, L . t l ;‘ l ot , oat the coo r „ les, inconsistent with r tsne Is f e „ u engendered, Assuming, intP° - i . i 0 0 J i t l lv'N se - ° tee e country can afford to relinquish t, na n ' e '; t 1 S n e ii;:' Jbor n " I d be better the ci t y a te o ' tli ei t o ki tli t hitCbt or e eel I'' me se ected for repeal than 0 - ,t lc 0 .,, ~,k ,, , ,at _ t ste n , i ___ 11.1 tax upon passengers by es of theroil_ 7, , . of L o re wi ll ,emPOrtance : the Noble Lord a lace 0 , p , . the , j t i ttiti tl o t " s n e t . it w i ll 3 o great difficulty in P." in or rye d o " 0 4 ;l1-, 4 " tu t , e have , practical collecting . operation of some be ti let, el) 0, 1 4 .t0„r) If • ctur se bet be ex . Jo y _ e , e t to , 4 4t it h e yeeen this countryand I 11, t divt Or 3 k 6; 1 1), 4 0t Pero,i,_ oPplied to all re clases, it will loos i n the , MN, of il l ' , tat e "of that • . i. of d 0, ,‘ k v _ . . . intercourse, and the Noble bat n a i 0 01 , s t , l 4 4 4 ty h ." jed,i, that it was to h • ' ruin 8 di e d bee I•As es 'M th • "ale, and e influenced by the ~ _ re i .4 gt, td ee, d . etrp„sby the part of the v. ssel in la d ti3r r l' ° ' 1 mo t tai, 'ng tw eet sa ge. It • o ne l'''' f 1 00 1 Ot le • is to be 2s. 6d • d ° , .. at __ . for any e t nn 4,21 the y_ ma --(Lord Althorn said, , ne w , 0l ac ; 47 arce4 'lttigz lik i ., e was thirty miles ' 41 the vo yap from Ireland, 411 - cl if the tax be to be paid by deck passengers, it will nearly double the sum at present charged, and consequently amount to a suspension of intercourse. The Noble Lord may modify this tax; but it is as well that he should be aware of the extent of its operation. I am surprised I that the Noble Lotd gave us no information as to the estimates of the present year. He said, indeed, th)t they had been prepared, and that they amounted to 46 mil lions ; but he did not tell us what sum would be required in dependent of the interests of the debt and the dead weight; still less did he furnish us with any details respecting the items in the several departments. Ido not know if it were the Noble Lord's intention to enter into them, as, from the commencement of his speech, I gathered that he meant to state, not only the total amount of the estimates, but the sum of each particular estimate; perhaps he inadvertently omitted it. But, I must say, not at all in the spirit of party, that all these matters, and every other which we have discussed during the pre sent Session, are of minor importance, competed with the proposition of the Noble Lord, to impose a tax upon funded property. I trust that he will consider the objec tions urged to this part of his plan by every body but my Hon. Friend, the Member for Staffordshire (Sir J. Wrottesley)—objections urged without reference to politi cal predilections or party intere-ts, but from an overbear ing sense of duty, and a conviction th-at it will tarnish the hitherto unblemished faith of this country. Let me ask the Noble Lord, whether he has read the words of the contract between the State and the public creditor, when the latter, possibly in times of great necessity, advanced his money for the service of the empire? Can terms be more express and explicit than those employed in the Act of 1813, which is only the counterpart of a former statute, for raising twenty-seven millions, by way of annuity? It grants the public creditor the power of transferring, with out restraint, his share in the public funds---" that no stamp duty whatever shall be charged on aay of the said transfers."—(Hear.) How can the Noble Lord or his col leagues " rail this seal from the bond ?" How can they get rid of this condition, upon which the public creditor lent his money to the State? It has been hitherto the proud boast of this country, as contra-distinguished from other States, that she has never descended to any such violation of her honour ; and no ingenuity of argument can get rid of this, as I think, fatal objection. But, says my Hon. Friend, with no very conciliatory argument to those who have ad vanced their money, " You have violated public faith al ready, and you are at liberty to violate it again." That will be the very inference to be drawn in future from the violation now recommended. If, in these times, when, according to the admission of the Noble Lord, productive industry is in a course of steady and progressive improve ment, if, in times of peace and prosperity, you may violate public faith in the teeth of Acts of Parliament, by impos ing a duty of one-half per cent. upon the transfer ofproperty in the Public Funds, what security can the public creditor have that in times like those of 1797 and 1798, should they unhappily return, unappalled by the danger of not clinging to the maintenance of public faith, which, in fact, has enabled us to surmount all our difficulties, Parliament, instead of imposing this comparatively small duty, will not, under the pressure of adverse circumstances, resort to a much heavier impost? Those who recommend it may then say with my Hon. Friend—you have been guilty of one violation of the public faith, and you may now safely be guilty of another.—(Hear, bear.)—Let me tell the House, too, that this is not a question of policy or pru dence; it is a question of morals. If the State be not prepared to meet its solemn engagements with the public creditor, let us shut up our Courts of Justice; for what pretence shall we have to call upon individuals to fulfil their contracts?—(Much cheering.)—l have heard of public writers, who, founding themselves on the altered circumstances of the times, have refused to fulfil their pecuniary engagements. They have contended for an exemption from the payment of their private debts ; but I never heard this doctrine maintained, either in public or private, without a burst of indig nation. And shall the State—the State of Great Britain —set the example of such a departure from the first prin ciples of justice and honesty ?—( Hear, hear. )—I can con ceive no condition of the country—no circumstances in which it can be placed, which could justify a proceeding so nefarious ; but if this be the course to be pursued, where is the fitness of refusing to individuals the same license—the same disregard of all law.—the same contempt of all that has hitherto been held sacred ?—(Hear, hear.) If we are to descend from the proud position we have held—if we are to disregard the engagements and the ho nour of the nation—if we are to be governed by consi derations of mere calculating prudence, independent of honesty, which has been declared, and till now shown to be, the best policy—l for one must grieve over the fallen fortunes and degraded character of nay country.—(Hear, hear.)—Let us see what remissions of taxation have been made within the last six years by adherence to the public faith, and the preservation of the national honour. First of all, you reduce the interest of the 5 per Cents., and you afterwards reduced the iuterest of the 4 per Cents., making in the whole a saving (I speak from memory only) of about 2,600,000/. This was a legitimate and an honourable mode of relieving the public burdens, and the public creditor bad no pretence for objecting that we had abandoned the sheet anchor of our safety. If, seven years since, the example had been set of imposing a duty of one-half per cent. on funded property, could the public credit have been maintained so as to enable us to make this proud, important, and honourable reduction ?—( Hear, hear.) Then, says the Noble Lord (and I really am sorry that he condescended to rest his vindication upon such a ground ; because, in my view, a direct and avowed con fiscation would be preferable to such pretexts), " I will propose at the same time a corresponding tax upon the transfer of landed property.',: My Hon. Friend, the Mem ber for S•affordshire can see no difference between this impost and the property tax; and he contends, that if we were justified in proposing a property tax, we shall now be warranted in fixing this corresponding duty upon landed property. I answer, in the first place, that the whole of the public income was subject to the property tax—the income derived from offices and professions, as well as from land. But how totally different, with rela tion to this question, is the income derived from land from the transfer of land ? By the policy of this law, you throw difficulties in the way of the transfer of land. Next, many estates could be pointed out, which have not been transferred at all, and never are the transfers of land at all equal in number to the transfers of funded property. I am sorry, for another reason, that the Noble Lord has pro posed this duty. Why ? Because prosperous persons, who are able to keep their estates, are subject to no tax, while it falls with extreme severity on those who are obliged to sell, and can ill afford to pay it. Land is sold, either on the demise of the head of a family, to pay the fortunes of younger children, or more frequently, to pay the debts of the proprietor; so that, the more adverse the circumstances of the parties may be, the more will they become liable to this new deduction from their pro perty. But what was the condition of the country in the year 1813 ? We were then so circumstanced, with re spect to the enemy with whom we were carrying on an ar duous war, that it was thought desirable to make a tre mendous exertion for the purp•ase of putting an end to the contest as speedily as possible.--( Hear.) The annual re venue of the country was inadequate to the current ex penses of the war. There was no other resource but to apply to the great capitalists for the means to enable the Government to maintain the struggle. Although there may not be at present any grounds of apprehension, yet, I ask, may it not be a wise policy in the Government of this country to prevent the greatest of all calamities—a gene ral war?—(Hear, hear.) But should it happen that such a calamity cannot be averted, it will at least be desirable to bring it to a speedy conclusion. It may be necessary for the Government to apply to the great capitalists. But is it expected that they will be ready to give their assist ance after their confidence shall have been shaken by the measures which the Noble Lord opposite calls upon the House to sanction ?—(Hear, hear.) I shall not new enter further into the subject, as there will be other opportunities of going into the details. I did not come into the House prepared to hear such measures proposed, although I certainly had beard vague rumours that something of the kind was intended. But when I heard the Noble Lord in the beginning of the evening tell us, that the poor would not be much relieved by a reduction of the direct taxation, but that the true way to afford re lief was to facilitate and encourage the employment of capital in manufactures, I did not expect that he would afterwards propose to shake public credia—( Hear, bear) — and destroy the confidence of the capitalist. I consider the proposition of the Nolale Lord at variance with public honour, public morals, and sound policy. On those grounds I must deprecate the Noble Lord's laying on a tax upon the transfers of funded property. I deprecate his making this House a party to the violation of th e public faith, which they had so often pledged themselves to maintain --(Great cheering.)—ln reply to an Hon. Member on the Ministerial Benches, whom we could riot hear, Sir R. Peel said, that he held in his hand the Act of 1813, extending the income tax to funded prope s t y ; but directing that no funded property should be subjected to stamp or other duties.—(Cheers. ) Lord ALTHORP said, that the Hon. Baronet did nut seem to be aware that the Act of 1795 contained the same clause in nearly the same words. It especially ex erupted funded property from all taxes, charges, and im positions whatever.—(Cheers.)—ln the Act which sub- I jested funded property to the income tax, the clause is I quite as strong as in that of 1795. In proposing the im pesition of the income tax, Mr.: Pitt argued that he did ' not impose that tax on funded property particularly, but on that property as part of the general property'of the country. He (Lord Althorp) acted on the same principle. In imposing a tax upon fixed property he had a right to include the funds.—(Hear.)—A Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who had argued that evening with more than his asual eloquence, had said that the proposed measure would injure public credit by making a reduction of the debt (as we understood the Noble Lord, who was not clearly audible in the close of several sentences.) But the Right Hon. Gentleman should recollect that if that were a reduction, the imposition of the income tax was more so. and was effected at a time when funded property had suffered from the consequences of the Bank restriction, by which that class of property was more affected than any other. The Right Hon. Gentleman had asked, was the proposed tax just ? If he (Lord Althorp) did not think it just he never would have brought it forward.—(Hear.)—But he thought, that when funded property. was as much protected as any other pro perty, the House had a tight to subject it to the tame taxation as any other was subject to for the maintenance of that protection.• He referred again to the Act of 1795, insisting that the clause exempting funded property from taxation was not expressed more strongly than in that which subjected the funds to the income tax, and which had never been described as a breach of faith. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that there was a possibility of the owners of stock raising money by depositing it as a security, instead of effecting a transfer, and that thus the tax would be evaded ; and he had said that the impositio n of the tax would not Only diminish the frequency of trans fer, but cause iucreased difficulties in effecting loans; but he (Lord Althorp) could not anticipate from it any s uc h results. With respect to what had been said of the tax on printed cottons, he should reply that he had taken off the tax, not for the purpose of snaking the article cheap, but to encourage its more extensive manufacture, and to give increased employment to the poor.—(Hear, hear.)— He did not suppose that the taking off the tax would be nefit them otherwise than by increasing employment.-- (Hear.)--As to the West Indian interest, he knew that it was distressed, and he should be glad to do anything for its relief.--(Hear.)—But he did not think that the tak ing off the tax upon sugar would afford that relief. If he were to take off that tax, he would do so for the purpose of benefitting not the proprietors but the slaves.—(Hear.) In conclusion he would say that be did not think the im position of a duty upon the transfer of stock was in vio lation of the contract with the public creditor, or that it would have any injurious effect upon the public credit. Mr. FRESHFIELD, having risen at the same time with several other Members, and being interrupted in his attempts to address the Chairman by cries of " Order," said that he was fortunately endowed with tolerably good ears—(Laughter) —a n d that be had beard the Chairman say that he was in order. However, he would not tres pass long upon the House, as he should be unwilling to take from the effect of the masterly speech of the Right Hon. Baronet below him, who had completely proved that it would be a gross breach of faith with the public credi tor if the House should sanction the proposition of the Noble Lord opposite.—(Hear.) —Y e t he would beg leave to snake one or two observations by way of appendix to that excellent speech. The income tax had been referred to, in the hope that something could be gathered from that tax to support the measure of the Noble Lord. But no two things could he more opposite. Although he hal been taken by surprise, he had hastily collected the Acts of Parliament on the subject of the income tax. In the debates upon that tax, Mr. Pitt said, that the property tax was a tax, not on the funds but on the profit. It was not a p irtial tax, affecting the funds alone, but laid upon every man's general property. It was clearly never in tended to he a tax upon funds, for there was an express provision in the Act of Parliament, that the property of foreigners in our funds should be exempted from the tax. — (Hear.)—Having endeavoured with confidence, though with little ability, to show that the measure under the consideration of the Committee bad no analogy to the in come tax, he would not trouble the House with more than that one observation. Colonel SIBTHORPE expressed his disappointment that the Government had not fulfilled the promise with which they commenced the Session. He had expected that they would have come forward with a long list of re ductions ; but, after all, there were only 260 reductions —who or what they were, or to what amount, he knew not. But he had expected some considerable reductions in these taxes which pressed upon the country more than any thing else—he meant the assessed taxes, against which petitions had been crowded upon the table year after year without effect. The Minister said that their reduction would not save money but patronage. But the people of England cannot live upon the patronage of the Crown—. they had need of snore substantial food.—(Great noise and talking in the House.)—An Hon. Gentleman oppo site had slid that the present was a time of peace. There might be peace in one way, but he was sure that there was yet but little cessation to the war upon the pockets of the people. At the same time he admitted that the reduction s which had taken place would give great satisfaction to the people. He would be glad that there were more duty on wine and less on malt. The repeal of the malt tax would be one of the greatest benefits that could be con ferred upon the country.—(Excessive noise in the House.) —He did not think that he should do his duty to his constituents if be did not declare his dissatisfaction that the Noble Lord had not brought forward the details of lib project. General GASCOYNE said, that whatever might be said upon the wisdom or justice of their measures, it was not to be denied that their intentions were good.—(Hear.) —He had one or two questions to ask of the Noble Lord, his answers to which would, he was sure, be heard with great interest. One was respecting the penny Which was to be imposed on raw cotton. Was that to be an addi tional impost ? If so, it would make the duty on the raw material, as imported, no less than 30 per cent. upon the original coil. His Right Hon. Friend at the head of the Board of Trade had said, that the best way to encou rage manufactures was to make the raw material as cheap as possible. But if they laid on a tax upon that raw article, which should raise the price to 54, they would destroy the manufacture. He also wished for an expla nation respecting the duty upon coals. And with respect to the duty on transfers, he was desirous to know whether it was intended that the duty should extend to transfers of landed property ? As every part of the whole of the funded property of the kingdom, to the amount of eight hundred millions, would, in the course of a few years, be liable to such a duty, would the duty fall upon property left to a man's children ?—(No, no; great noise.)—He was always unwilling to trespass upon the time of the House ; but when he considered how many throughout the kingdom looked with anxiety to the proceedings of the House that day, he could not forbear expressing his hope that the Noble Lord would examine well the conse quences of those measures. Lord ALTHORP (who was scarcely audible in the gal lery) replied that the duty of a penny per pound on the raw cotton was an additional duty, but there was a penny taken off the manufactured article, which compensated for the addition, and left the duty on the whole material the same as before. Thus the tax would he spread over the whole trade, which before pressed heavily upon a pa; r. As to. the duty upon coals, although he had explained his intention to impose a tax of 10s. per chaldron, that was in fact a reduction of the existing tax, and not a new impost. We understood the Noble Lord to say, that the duty on transfers extended to all kinds of property being transferred. Mr. CHARLES GRANT said it was not his intention to trespass on the House more than a few moments ; nor did he think it necessary to go into the general merits of the subject. When his Noble Friend should bring before the House the details of his proposition, it would be the more proper time to enter into its merit,,.But he could not touch it without saying, that his Noble Friend had acted on that principle which the House had recognized at the beginning of the Session, to equalize the pressure of the taxation, and to lighten those which pressed on the, spr i ngs of production.—(Cheers.) —His Hon. Friend opposite (General Gascoyne) had himself expressed his plireesewntasstSatt'ereoift incum bent‘lthaestradeof approbation of thslacteeto. B rm p , reiiuinditcohilptreiln to the H ouse w i th a budget , e ae . g reed with th e H on. B aronet pi futppwpo on s o it tni,eattht country,hpearllit every Minister, other p r i nc i p l e ought to give way to oi that of maintaining the public faith inviolate. He did not considt.r that the proposition of his Noble Friend involved any mixed question of expediency and faith.—(Hear.) He denied that it affected the public faith—(Hear)—a n d after the angry and violent attack which bad been made on his Majesty's Ministers, he felt bound to confine himself to that subject.—(Hear, hear.) He believed that every one Of the gentlemen on the other side had begun his speech with a complaint that he had been taken by surprise.— One gentleman went so far as even to declare his inability to express his sentiments, so violent was the shock he had received. —(Hear, and laughter.) But yet it came out, someho w or other, that the Right Hon. Baronet, and, in deed, every one of them, had heard something about it that morning.—(Laughter.) That anticipation of sur prise formed a very peculiar feature in the present debate. It seemed to him, however, that none of the Hon. Gen tlemen opposite had escaped from the dilemma in which the argument respecting the income taa Lad placed them. He had not heard one of them grapple with it fairly, and show that there was any difference between the measure of his Noble Friend and that tax.—(Hear.) An Hon. Gentleman under the gallery had endeavoured to make a distinction, and had quoted an expression which he attributed to Mr. Pitt. But for his part, he (Mr. Grant) had read the debates in which Mr. Pitt had taken so prominent a part, on that subject, and he- thought it incumbent on him to rescue Mr. Pitt from the impu tation of having uttered such a sentence. He had no doubt that it might have been thrown out by some one in the course of the debates. He could refer, with triumph, to the opinion of Mr. Pitt, as that Minister was the champion of the great principle of public faith. Seeing upon the table the book containing that debate, he would beg leave to read to the. Committee what Mr. Pitt did really say upon the subject, to show that the income tax was not a breach of public faith. He s lid, " There can he no breach of faith with the public creditor in imposing on him the burden to which every other subject is liable. The public annuitant is not to be taxed as such, but he is riot to escape by saying that I shall have a species of pro perty which taxation must not reach." That was the view of Mr. Pitt respecting the exemption of funded property from taxation. It wag not for him to say whether or not that construction was the right one, but it was the con struction which the Legislature itself had put upon the Act of Parliament ueon which that exemption was founded. Nor had it ever been said that the subjecting the funds to the income tax was a breach of the public Nth. He considered that case quite analagous to the one at present before the Committee. No difference between them had been pointed out. He agreed with the Right Honourable Baronet opposite, as to the necessty of main taining the public faith unimpaired, and of adhering to our engagements with the national creditor. Nut he thought that the principle which justified Mr. Pitt in imposing the income tax upon funded property in the face of the Act of Parliament so often referred to, did also justify his Ma jesty's Ministers in the measure which they proposed. Neither did be think that the House would shake the public confidence in the funds, by imposing the tax on transfers. Ile could not see that such a tax would prevent the investment of property in the public securities.—(Th e Hon. Gentleman sat down amid considerable cheering.) Sir EDWARD SUGDEN said, that he should take care not to express surprise, although he never heard a word about the Noble Lord's intention until he came into the House. But he did not wish to subject himself to the censure of the Might Hon. Gentleman who had last ad dressed the House ; and for the same reason he would en deavour not to imitate the Right Hon. Gentleman's warmth of manner. It appeared to him that the Noble Lord op posite had searched through the Acts of Mr. Pitt to find as illegal act to bear him out in doing that which was contrary to law.--(N no.) The tax proposed by the Noble Lord was a grossly partial and unjust property tax. He was willing to allow to the Noble Lord that the Act of Mr. Pitt was an illegal one, but he could not allow ' that the Noble Lord was justified by that in coming for ward to ask the House to imitate the injustice. But if he (Sir E. Sugden) understood the Noble Lord rightly, be considers that breach of contract by Mr. Pitt sufficient to justify another breach of the contract on his part. With the sincerest respect for the Noble Lord, he could not help saying, that there could not lie a grosser violation of pub lic faith than had been proposed in his financial statement —a greater violation of public faith had never been adopted by the most revolutionary tribunal. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then referred to the Act of the sth of George IV., observing that it expressly declared, that no stamp du ties should be charged upon the transfer of stock by which a benefit was gained without any individual suffering. It was evident from this, that one of the conditions upon which that property was created consisted in there being no stamp duties chargeable upon the transfer, and the House must see, that by removing one of those conditions, as indisputable a breach of public faith was committed as revolutionary France had ever perpetrated. If such an act was to be committed, he thought the Bill by which the measure was to be carried into effect should recite the sth of George IV. or at least those clauses, and the declara tion for the protection of that species of property, which. they contained. He believed that there was not a Mi nister ever called to the counsels of the Monarch who would, in the present times, have the hardihood to pro pose a measure that would so carry upon the face of it evidence of its own injustice. If they were to adopt the recommendations of the Noble Lord, be would desire to know where they were to stop ; he likewise begged to know, even supposing the transfer tax a just one, where was the necessity for such a tax ? He begged the House to look at its probable consequencea. Millions of British capital would find its way out of the stocks of this country into the public funds of more favoured lands. By the high public credit, which, up to the present moment, had been cherished and maintained in this country, the surplus capital of all the world flowed in towards us ; but if once fiscal regulations were allowed to interfere with it in the manner adieu nn to the system erproposed r bytshem from Noble which so muchLord,the y national wealth t forever bid wealth had been derived. Let Honourable Members look to the effect it could not fail to have in the City to morrow morning. If the City once became impressed with the conviction that the Noble Lord would be able to carry his measure through the House, there was not a man in Europe who had money in the public funds who would not find his property instantly diminished in value. On these grounds lie was determined not only then to express his disapprobation of the proposed duties, but in all stages of the measure to offer to it the most marked and pertina cious opposition. Mr. WARBURTON derived great pleasure from the statement of the Noble Lord, though there might be some few and comparatively unimportant points. As to what had fallen from the Hon. Baronet, he could by no means agree with him, that prices were not influenced by an aug mented cost of production. With respect to the duty on coals, he could not but regret that the advisers of the Crown should have thought it necessary or advantageous to propose to Parliament any measure intended to facili tate the export of an article which admitted not of repro duction. There was scarcely a hope that the supply of Newcastle coals would continue beyond four or five hun dred years.—(Hear, hear, and great laughter.) But to be serious, he wished to avail himself of the opportunity which that occasion afforded, of calling the attention of the House to the many abuses which the present state of our Excise Laws occasioned. An intelligent French tra veller, Sitnond, in writing about this country, expressed his astonishment at the frequent interference of our do mestic manufactures to which those laws gave rise, rin stancing what he saw at Dumbarton i n th e g l ass trade; during th e whole process an exci seman was present, and that as one ofthe country,iieetve, that d h idcere tainly appear incomprehensible to Mon s i eur Si mond. Com ing the los s would amount to one-half institutionsth timber o hef a l fa d ee to e b i nyg no o now meansto the tin what was estimated, and there was this advantage in the proposed arrangement—that while they imposed some ad ditional charges upon timber, they gave advantages to the shipping interest which it had not before enjoyed, in consequence of what had been done for the be ne fit of the coal trade. On the subject of the cotton trad e , he could not refrain from expressing his regret that so laoge a portion of the duty laid upon that article was t o b e withdrawn from the Government in the sh a p e o f a draw back, which, in truth, would amount to nothing less than three-fourths of the whole amount. He confessed he should infinitely have preferred a smaller duty without a drawback, and applying equally to all sorts of cotton. A further subject of regret with him was the proposed duty upon steam - boat passenger s —th e o bj ect of that tax was on infant branch of trade, facilitating the communi cation between different parts of the country, and which he thought should, on that account, be reconsidered by his Majesty's Government ; and he sincerely hoped that, upon re-consideration, it would not be thought necessary to continue that duty. He now came to the great question that night discussel. He fully concurred with the Noble Lord and with the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, that to propose th e d uty vpon the transfer of stock, as they b a d quite as much right, anti it was fully as ju s t i n it was in Mr. Pitt to propose his income tax. Still, looking thing, he w ou ld not un d erta k e to say thatire at ea verrey ought to b e persevered in, if it came to be regarded by any large mi n o r i ty even as a b reac h o f pu bli c faith. It would be no di scre di t to hi s M ajesty ' s Govern ment to reconsid er a proposition of that nature ; an d he hop e d t h at, upon reconsideration, they tmeasure would not consid e r it necessary to impose the tax so much o bj ec t e d to. They would do honour to themselves by throwing aside all considerations of a merely per st:nal nature; and making the preservation of public and private credit an object of the highest importance. It cer tainly would act at a far greater per centage upon funded. than upon landed property, and would be, to that extent unequal operation. The opinion of Mr. Ri cardo,(Mr. W.) fully concurred, always a h n e d ,equal property tax, however small, anything that might be called a modified p wwa r taa o :l pe lri t tel Y afient t ro a da‘f x bv . i'le.:liectat i r t the present moment, personal, as com pared with real property, was most unequally taxed. There was a legacy tax, which a friend of his had esti mated as equivalent to five per cent. upon all personal pro perty. The proposition of Mr. Pitt upon the subject of t h e legacy duty was, that it should be extended to all de vises of real property there was equality and fairness in that. However, upon the whole, he thought there was much cause for satisfaction at the statement of the Noble Lord; and though he tu: g .L. h.re differed from him on the points he mentioned, be should give to the Govern ment his hearty support. Mr. ROBINSON observed, that the Noble Lord had professed to impose taxes upon a principle of equality, while the tax upon transfers was chiefly confined to funded—there were two sorts of property affected by it, and all other descriptions completely exonerated : in moat, however, of the proposed reductions of the Noble Lord, he fully concurred : yet he by no means gave to the taxes substituted that general support ; for example, he thought it highly inexpedient to deprive ourselves of the benefit of the Portuguese market, for the sake of relieving French wines, already considerably relieved. from duty. Then there was the case of tobacco : he confessed himself one of those who thought that many much more suitable objects of relief could be found than the trade in tobacco; for instance, he thought it would be I.y far better to reduce the duty on soap. He thought that the change in the timber duties was premature : for at the present moment a great and important experiment was about to be tried ; intercourse between the United States and the West Indies was about to be opened ; until the result of that was ascertained, it was rather hazardous to relieve Norwegian timber at the expense of Canadian : besides, foreign timber generally came in foreign ships, whereas, Canadian timber generally came in Britieh ships, from which it was obvious that the maritime power of this country might be most materially injured ; for these rea sons, then, he should, without actually offering to his Majesty's Government any direct opposition, feel bound to watch their proceedings, amongst others upon this ac count, that he thought they had upon the present occa sion taken the House rather by surprise. He concluded by expressing his strong disapprobation of the transfer tax, as likely to send many millions of surplus capital out of the country. Colonel TYRELL listened with much satisfaction to Many of the statements which came from the Noble Lord, and he regretted to find that, amongst the proposed reliefs there was not to be any diminution of the malt tax.—(A laugh.) He really conceived it to be a fitter subject for diminution than any other. He could not help expressing his surprise that, amongst all the attachrneut professed to the principles of free trade, the Government had not thought proper ,to give them a free trade in money, the one thing needful ; he was, therefore, sure that the great bankers would hear with dismay the statement made that night in the House, and that it would be received as.a great fiilure on the part of the Noble Lord, by them, and by the country at large. Lord MORPETH said that his Noble Friend bad done great credit to himself and to the Government' of which he•was a member, by the statement he bad that night made; and he entertained no doubt that that statement would be received by the country at large with much sa tisfaction. As he was the representative of several large and important bodies, he trusted the House would indulge him with an opportunity of saying a few words. He en tertained not the slightest doubt that the reductions and retrenchments proposed by the Noble Lord would be re ceives! by the country with much thankfulness, not only as a substantial concession for the presen►, but a promise and continued encouragement for the future; and he trusted that what had been so well commenced would be advantageously followed up sad improved on. A war-cry had been raised against his Majesty's Government of spo liation and of breach of public faith—much declamation had been directed against them; but that could not be considered of the slightest value or importance, unless it could be shown that there was a greater d'fference between the tax on property in or out of pocket and that upon the transfer. All other interests were at the present mo ment taxed, and why not the moneyed interest? It was perfectly true, that his constituents were not much interested in the repeal of the duty on sea-borne coals; but he believed there was not a second opinion amongst them upon that duty—they all regarded it as a tax severe and partial in its operation. As to the arrangements respecting cotton, they hail his m ►st cordial support ; .the tax ,upon imported cotton affecting all parties alike, while the repealed tax gave relief to the lower classes exclusively. He especially re joiced at the removal of the tax upon newspapers—in that he felt a peculiar interest, sad he should have much pride in presenting to the House on Monday the petition of the printers of London and Westminster. In presenting that petition upon the subject of the tax in question, he should no longer be anxious to implore the support of the Go vernment--instead or imploring that assistance, he now felt himself in a situation to call upon the House to:support the announced intention of his Majesty's Ministers.-- (Hear.)—Their conduct respecting the Civil List had his warmest approbation ; in their arrangements upon that head they appeared to have been governed by a nice sense of justice and of honour, as well as by a delicate percep tion of what was due to the interests and feelings of others. It might he that in what tl•ey had done they had not se cured the popularity which some would think so desirable, but he hoped they would go on, and he was assured that they would attract the approbation of the wise, and sooner or later the rest would be added unto them. Mr. EVANS could not agree in supporting the duty upon the transfer of property, for he thought that it would prove prejudicial to national faith, and generally speaking he should much prefer a well regulated property tax. Mr. D. NV. HARVEY thought that most of the Hon. Members who opposed the propositions of the Noble Lord vetned to lose sight of the great advantage of his scheme. Where was the individual forming a part of the late Go vernment who hoped for the possible repeal of two mil lions, after all the reductions that had recently taken place ? He proposed to repeal no less than three millions of taxes—imposing in lieu of them only 1,200,000/., that was 800.0001. upon the transfer of funded property, and 400,000/. on the transfer of land. If that proposition was to be resisted, and successfully resisted, upon prin ciple, it could not but prove highly consolatory to the fundholders, as affording them cmclusive evidence that since that did not, no other fiscal regulations could affect their property. It had been said that there was no dis. tinction between the transfer tax and an income tax. If there were to be any disappointment on the subject, it would consist in this—that instead of a tax on transfers of only 1,200,0001., there had been expected a tax on pro perty of several millions. He should certainly give the Government his support, for be thought it was factious for any man to oppose any proposition unless he was pre pared to suggest a substitute. Many of the landowners had that night stood forward as the advocates of the fund holders. Now, if instead of a tax of ten shillings upon the transfer of land, they had proposed thirty shillings, they would have relieved their friends the fundholders, and paid a high compliment to the.landed interest. Mr. HOLME SUMNER denied that the Government plan would afford a saving of 2,000,0001. as had been stated. The taxes new to be imposed amounted to two millions seven or eight hundred thousand pounds. Ac to the repeal of the duty on coals, it was a measure that bad his most cordial support. Mr. BENETT observed, that it seemed to be generally agreed that it had at length become necessary to take the taxes off the productive industry 01 the country, in order that it might be imposed on the higher classes of society, who were better able to bear the burthen. Of such a course as this he most cordially approved ; and even had the Noble Lord carried it to the extent of proposing a ge neral income tax, it should have met with his support; but, though no property tax was proposed, enough bad hero done to enable the Government to get rid of some most obnoxious taxes (and than those that had been chosen there could not lie better), and farther than this they were not able to go. Perhaps the Noble Lord had not proposed a property tax because he did not believe that the time for it was yet come, but he (Mr. Benett) felt well satisfied, that at all events it was near at hind. With respect to the case of the fundholder, he did not see what right he had to complain—with the change of the currency, his property had been benefitted nearly thirty per cent., and he, therefore, had no right to cry out, now that a tax of one-half per cent. was put upon his transfer. The time was come when the fundholder must bear his share of the burthen ; they were now the rich men of the country, and they, therefore, ought not to be surprised should they be called on to beat• a portion of the weight of the public ex penditure. So far, therefore, from objecting to this tax of one-half per cent., he thought that they would act wisely by holding their tongues, or, perhaps they ought rather to accept it as an actual boon, for it might be the means of protecting them some short time hence from a much more grievous imposition. Mr. HUNT rose amidst cries of " Queition !" He sid that there seemed to be three parties on this question —the law, the land, and the moneyed interests : now he did nut come tinder any of these heads, for he was there as the representative of the people.—(Cries of " Oh !" and a laugh.) But though that was his more particular station, he felt it to be his duty to protect the interests of all parties. As to the measures proposed by the Noble Lord, he felt obliged to him on the part of the people, as fur as any taxes were taken off. With respect to the re mission of the tax on tobacco, however, he wished that some other more necessary article had been substituted in its place—such as soap. He looked upon the use of to bacco as the use of a disgusting weed—(A laugh)— an d those that used it, as they did it in the shape of a luxury, ought to be made to pay for it. With respect to the taking off the tax on newspapers and advertisements, he was sure that it would be responded to by all classes in the C.untry—(Heir, hear)—and as to the tax on coals, the that it had been allowed to remain so lohowever, now that it was to be re ould not be destroyed by the little mo ted in the city ; the jobbing that took beyond g conception—(Hear, hear)—and lo r atoip b a cgv:e. t i e s d : t s ewi g ir eee r l a it ie e rtc,ff e i;aies w 9cteet a xd s % the manoeuvres that woe carried on between the coal - meters, coal-merchants, and other parties were net done away with, little good would he done to the community at large. It had been well said, that in removing taxes] on'y in part, the public were not much benefited, it being chiefly monopolised by the dealers. Time tax on sa l t was a strung inst ance o f t hi s ; w h en on l y a portion of that tax had been removed, but little benefit hail been de rived by the community ; but when the whole was takan off, and the paraphernalia of excise and collectors were got rid of, it - was found to be one of the greatest boons the public had ever received. With respect to the calico prints, the whole country would be rejoiced at that; for the duty on that sort which was worn by the lower orders was 80 per cent., while on that consumed liy the rich it was only 2i. As to the proposed duty on cottons, lie thaught it wrong that a general duty of H. z. 16 should be imposed, because this immediately made the tax une qual, the rich getting their cottons at as cheap a rate as the poor; it would have been better, therefore, had the finer sorts of cotton paid more, and the coarser sorts less. At the same time he was bt.und to say that he ',H a y t i ( ) the Noble. Loral had come- forward with the best inters_ tuns towards the country—(ilver, bear)—and he cer tdnly could not have done better than in laying the whole of his propoaitions clearly before the public, as he ha done. As lie understood the case, the present Govern ment had come into office with three pledges -_a great re duction in taxation, a Reform in this country, amid not). intervention with the Government of any other couotiy. On the strength of this, great expectation was entert tined by the people, and they certainly (lid anticiente that a great deal would be done. All that he tested was that the people would not be altogether satisfied .with this amount of reduction which the Noble Lord proposed. The only fault, however, that be had to find with the a atement, as far as that was concerned, was Vat in hit; proposal of the I per cent, duty on the transfer of funded property, he had acted in the sone open manner as on the other .points; for, as they had been told by the Hon. Member for London, they were no more able to melieve the distress sf the country, and keep the national faith at the same time, than it was in the Noble Lord's power to satisfy the wants of the people to.-morrow. He fmad been accustomed to meat the public out of that House. and he would tell that Honourable House what the public thought of the national faith. Instead of national faith they looked upon it as national rebbery and national delu sion. —(A laugh, and hear.)--'He hoped the House would boar with him ; tin re was arrayed in that House all the talent of the country ; Ise was only telling them what was said out of doors, and he did not laminae to tell then: the same in-aloors.—(Hear, hear.)—A good deal had been said about this proposed measure being a violation of the national faith ; but he begged to ask the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel), what sort of national faith it was to change the currency, so that the fundhoider, who was receiving three par cent., and got one seek of wheat for the money, was enabled, by the alteration, to get two sacks for the same money ?—(Loud cries of hear, hear.) So, in the same way, they had been told that this was a violation of the law ; but if that argument was good, every time a law was repealed there was a violation of the law. In what lie said he endeavoured to make him self understood, and he hoped for the indulges -ace of the House, for as soon as he should find that he was not able to forward the cause of the people, or that his arguments were not listened to by the House, he should make his bow and take his leave of his constituents. lie had been brought up in • what waa railed the Burdett school— (Loud laughter and cheers)—and he had often heard the Hon Baronet give descriptions of that Honourable House at the meetings in Palace -yerd.—(Laugliter.)—He trusted that he was not disorderly ; but if he was, he should bow to the rules of the Howe; and he could assure it that he should hove great pleasure in telling his con stituent,' that he had met with fair play there.—(l-l ear, hear.)—lie had heard th e H on. M e mber for West' minster talk of the House that kept late hours and bad company; but fir himself he would never say nut of • the House what it would be disorderly to say in it-- With respect to the passage front Mr. Pitt's speech, which had been quoted by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. C. Grant), he thought that, notwithstanding the abilities of that Right Hon. Gentleman, he had mistaken the point of the quotation, for it appeared to him that the argument contained in that extract was in favour of the opponents; of the Right lion. Gentleman.__( Hear, hear ) In this respect it reminded him of an Hon. and Learm (1 Gentle man with whom he had had the fortune of arguing a point in the Court of King's Bench. That Learned Gentleman (he must not mention names), the M-mber for some Wace— he did not know what—had cited a case, and was about to hand it up to Mr. Justice Bayley, whe n lie (Mr. Brunt) whipped across the Court, and begged to be allowed to read it, which being done, he also handed it up to Mr. Justice Bayley, and said, " I rest toy cone on that too, my Lord ;" and the opinion of that Learned Ju4e was clearly enough expressed,. by saying, " Mr. Hunt must have his rule."—(A laugh.) What was proposed by time Nate Lord might make a slight panic in the City, but it would give great satisfaction to the country. For himself, he wished that the Government had been bold enough to take off the malt tax, the house and window tax, and the soap tax, and put on a property tax in their place at once. (Hear, hear.) But perhaps the situation in which they had been left by the late Government, had pr vented them doing more. However, as far as they would go in taking off taxes, they should have his hearty support.—(A laugh.) He did not, however, believe that the Govern ment was strong enough for such a measure as that which he had proposed. Let them, however, mince effect a Re form in that House; and then, with a Ministry which had the confidence of the people, those measures could be carried. With respect to the tax on wines, he was glad that they were going to be equalized. The tax on steam boats, however, he objected to, because it would prevent the poor Irish pigs--(A laugh)--or, at least, the poor I: ish men—(Loud laughter) —from coming over in the steam boats ; and, indeed, cut off all connection between Paddy and John Bull. Colonel WOOD thought that it would have been better if the malt tax (in whole or in part) had been taken tiff„ instead of the duty on tobacco. The duty on candles also pressed very heavily on the poorer classes. Mr. BEAUMONT said a few words, which were in audible in the gallery. The three resolutions were then put from the Chair, and carried ncm. din. The House resumed, the report was brought up, and ordered to be received on Monday. TRUCK. On the moti on of Mr. LYTTLEToN this Bill was read A secon.l time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. SCOTCH BANKRUPTS. The LORD ADVOCATE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to continue, for a certain and a short period, the exist ing Bankrupt Act for Scotland. The Bill wus subse (pent!), brought in, read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday. ARMY ESTIMATES. Mr. WYNN gave notice that he should move the Army Estimates in the Committee of Supply on Friday next. Lord STRATHAVEN presentel two petitions from certain farmers and butchers, for the repeal of the duty ;in carts with metallic springs. Mr. GUEST postponed his motion relative to Pensions in the Civil List to March 8. Lord EBRINGTON presented petitions from Totneso, complaining of the mode of electing burgesses for that borough, and praying for Reform; from Trowbridge, for economy, retrenchment, and Reform ; and from Parkliarn. Devon, against tithes. His Lordship stated, that in this p irish the tithes amounted to one-fourth, and even some times to one-third of the rent. If the tithe question were not set at rest, the roost grievous consequences might be apprehended. A great ferment had been excited, which inu,t be allayed by commuting the tither. If it were not settled, it might disturb the peace of the empire. His Lordship presented two other petitions from places in Devon to the same effect, and gave notice that on Alonday. he would present a petition from Devonshire for Reform in Parliament. I Mr. JOHN CAMPBELL gave notice that he would move, on the 24th February, for leave to bring in the Bills he had already given notice of to the House. Mr. BOLTON CLIVE presented a petition from the city of Hereford, in favour of Reform, economy, re trenchment, the abolition of taxes un Industry, and dm cointnutatinn of tithes. Mr. WARBURTON presented a petition for Reform in'Parliament from Bridport• Also a petition from Ban , bury, complaining of the mode of election in that bo rough. Mr. BYNG presented a petition from Paddington for a modifictvion of the New Police Act. O'GORMAN MAHON gave notice that lie would, on Monday, move for a copy of the address to the King, by Lord Corry in the Irish House of Petra in i the i n? e,r i: of June, 1800 ; a copy of the protest of t he 0 v against the Un ( io ri n o : v th e t ootiou. by Mr. Grey n a l l. a G e r o e n y y )., o f n t the ameru of .1 English House of Common.. Quarter Pitt for the second !ending t he et of Union in the ter past Twelve. Adjourned to Monday, At a