The Sun. — London, England, 1830-03-09 00:00:00

He explained the operation of the present plan of reducing commissions, which was, he said, acted on without the infliction of injustice upon other officers in foreign el mate,,, and that by it, since the peace of 1815, a saving of 3,495/. had occurred in the annual intyments of this branch alone, the half pay being reduced from 18,4051. to 14,9101. Mr. IIUME understood the Right Hon. Gent:, remark applied to the foreign service; but wen there not at the same time new commissions giving in the Foot Guards and Household Troops P 11.11ARDINGE said that there had been the usual reduction of certain companies in thew• troops, although, of course, some fresh ensigns must have been since the peace appointed. Some conversation then arose bctween Mr. MoNcic, Mr. lit:3m, and Sir H. HARDINGE, to o.tcertain how far the amount for any new commi sions sold had been rendered available in reduction of the military expenditure, when Sir HENRY pro mised to furnish any accounts which were necessary to render this elucidation. The vote of '720,859/. 12s. 10d. was then agreed to, as well as another or 91,900/. for foreign half-pay. in reply to a question from Mr. MAMTLY, who remarked that the system of half-p'y was not known in the foreign armies, and one from Mr. Hum:, urging that the half-pay system should be regulated on a better principle, Sic H. HARDINGE replied, that a new ar ratigernent was about to be made, to regulate the duration of a certain space of service on full-pay be fore the officer should be entitled lc, any half-pay. Ott the resolution that a sum not exceeding 47,686/. Is. 81 be granted to his Majesty for the purpose of defraying the charge of the In•pensioners of Cheiseq and Kilmainham Hospitals, Mr. HUNIE observed, that the clerks of Chelsea Hospital were Worse paid than the officers of an d • other Government establishment, Mr. CALCRAFT WM of the same opinion, and had wished the Right Hoc. Gentleman (the Chan cellor of the Ex7hequer) to raise the salaries of those clerks, brit could not get him to advance Is. Lord A LTHORP asked whether there was any difficulty in procuring clerks for Chelsea Hospital. If there did not exist any difficulty, he saw no reason for raising the salaries.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that he, when applied to by the Hon. Member (Mr. Qulcraft) on the subject, had asked the very same question as the Noble Lord had just put. Mr. lIUME had no wish to see the salaries of those clerks increased, but be thought that the sala ries in other departments ought to be brought down to the scale adopted at Chelsea Hospital.—The re solution was then carried. The next question, that a sum not exceeding 1,241,6011. 17s. Sd. be granted to defray the charge of the Out-pensioners of Chelsea Hospital, was then put, and agreed to. The question being put that a sum not exceeding 9.0,9861. 13i. 3d. be granted to defray the expense of the Royal Military Asylum, After a few words from Sir H. HARDINGE, the resolution was put and agreed to. The next resolution was for a sum not exceeding 14.5,2e41. to defray the pen , ions to be paid to the widows of officers of the land forces for 1830. Mr. HUME inquired whether any regulations had been adopted by Government since last session, as to the manner of granting these pensions. Sir H. IiARDINGE said that these pensions were granted only to the widows of officers who had served ten years, and who had been on full pay for that period. ►Mr, HUME, thought it desirable that the estimate For Navy and Ordnance pensions should he placed upon the same footing xt.tli the army. There was redaction of five per cent. made upon the pensions of the soldier, while no such reduction was made in the artillery or in the navy. The soldier therefore considered himself plundered, though if the esti mates were properly stated he woul►l see that credit was given him for the reduction of five per cent, in his pension. All the military and naval pensions should therefore he stated in the same way. fir 11. HARDEN GE said the reduction of five per tent. was made upon the pensions of the soldiers serving in the line, by an Act passed in the reign of Geo. I f., and it was then conceived but f►ir that such seduction should not apply to the ordnance, as the indi% idual serving in the ordnance was at the expense ot his agency, and it was thought also, at that time, that he could not he admitted to Chelsea Hospital. The reduction was, in fact, equal, both in the line and in the ordnance. Mr. MONCK objected to this vote on principle. After a few words from Sir 11. ItutorGr,, Mr. 1-luAtE, and Lord HowicK, the resolution was put and agreed to. The rext resolution was for a sum not exceeding 185,0361. for allowances on the Cornpasgionaie List; for allowances as of his Majesty's Boyal Bounty; and for pensions to officers for wounds. Mr. HUME widied to know whether care was taken in the granting of the last-mentioned pensions, that the officers to whom they were granted were wounded, as he had known individuals without wounds in the receipt of such pensions. Sir 11. HARDINGE said, that an officer must, under the existing regulations, undergo the exami nation of five medical men, and he must prove be fore the Medical Board, that he had suffered a per manent injury, equal to the loss of a limb, before a pension could be granted for a wound, and that exa• mination must take place five years before the grant ing of any such pension. After a few words from Mr. MOCK and Mr. Ilumc, the resolution was agreed to. The next resolution was for the sum of 54,20-11., for allowances, compensations, and emoluments in the nature of superannuated allowances, to persons formerly belonging to the several public departments in Great Britain and Ireland. Mr. MABERLY said, that there was no better mode of checking these pensions than than by hav ing them specifically stated in the army as they now were in the nary. He then proceeded to complain of the mode in which two officers had been super annuated, and to require information of the nature of their services ; but, owing to the indistinctness of his tone, we were unable to collect the particulars. Sir 11. HARDINGE said, the plan which the lion. Member suggested should be adopted in fu ture years in the army. Before the report was brought up to-morrow, the lion. Member should have all the information which he required respect ing the two cases which he just mentioned.—The rerolittion was then agreed to. The next resolution was for 32,0001., for the pur pose of defraying the charge of Exchequer fees. Mr. Humr, and Mr. MARERIX both objected to the payment of these fees, which they considered disgraceful to the country.—The resolution was then agreed to. On the motion that the CHAIRMAN should report these resolutions to the Ilouse, Mr. GORDON rose to ask the Hon. Secretary when he meant to bring up the report, as he in tended upon that occasion to propose a resolution to the following effect :—" That it is the opinion of this House, that as long as the regulation is in force by which officers on the half-pay of the army, navy, ordnance, and marina, are prevented front re ceiving the whole of their half-pay, or any part thereof, whilst they are enjoying the emoluments of civil office, it ia expedient and just that the same re gulation should extend to officers on full-pay of the army, navy, marine, and ordnance, who enjoy the emoluments of civil office, or of any other naval and military allowances." Sir H. HARDINGE said, that it would be most agreeable to him to have the report of these resolutions brought up to-morrow, lie should cer tainly oppose this resolution ; and if the gentlemen who had motions for to-morrow would give him precedence for but half an hour, he thought that he could dispose of it most effectually in that time. The CRAISMAN then repotted the resolutions to lie Mouse.—The report was ordered to tie received o morrow. BOMBAY JUDICATURE, The Order of the day for resuming the debate on his subject was then read. Mr. HUME stated it to be h s opinion that the interference of the Government in this case was un called for by any exigency ; and that, contrary to lie allegations o 1 the Noble Lord opposite, there Nits nothing in the condition of India threatening the dissolution of our empire, if the Judges had been allowed to act as they had wished. The ob ject of the Government was evidently to place the Supreme Court in subservience to it, contrary to the expressed intention of the Act of Parliament which constituted it. Whoever looked at the con stitution of that Court, must see that it was insti tuted to protect the natives against oppression. He contended that the conduct of the Noble Lord in disgracing a Judge who had acted a conscientious part, was quite indefensible. He complained also that six weeks before Sir John Grant had laid his statement before his Majesty, his Majesty's Ministers had, upon the mere statement of Sir John Malcolm, determined to supersede him. He blamed Sir John Malcolm much, but he blamed Lord Ellenborough still more, because as he was free from all local passions and prejudices he ought to have taken an impartial view of the transaction. He considered that this hasty and injudicious proceeding was fraught with the utmost danger to lmFa, and that it h e efore ought to be marked by the signal indig nation of the House. lie would not enter at all into the legal question, but would, for the reasons he had just stated, give his most cordial support to the motion of his Hon. Friend. Mr. O'CONNELL contended that the Judges of the Supreme Courts were perfectly justified' in what they had done, because the Act of Parlia ment under which they were appointed, conferred upon them the same powers as were exercised by the Judges of the Court of King's Bench in Eng land. As the question appeared to be one between the Judges and the Governor, he certainly was disposed to support the former, because he believed them to have the law on their side. At all events he thought that further information was required, and therefore he would vote for the motion. Mr. G. BANKES observed, that all the circum stances of the case had been laid before the Privy Council by Sir J. Grant himself, who was certainly most competent to state his can case, and yet the Privy Council had decided agaiast him. Although he imputed no blame to the Judges of the Supreme Court, he could not but consider it most unfortunate that they had felt themselves compelled to adopt proceedings which had involved not only themselves, but the Government of Bombay, in difficulties. It was impossible that any person who had taken the least trouble to make himself acquainted with the facts of the case, could suppose that Sir .John Mal comb's conduct had originated in any petty jealousy of the Supreme Court. In fact, he did not interfere until the natives had called upon him to ratify the agreements which had been entered into for their protection. With reference to this point the Hon. Nlember read an extract from a despatch, mitten by the Marquis of Hastings to the Court of Directors, in 1818, in which he introduced the following re :—" It is a peculiar ci,cumstanee attending all these annexations (at the conclusion of the Mahratta war), that the only re it the natives have is, that our judicial. system w ill be introduced amongst them, and they always stipulate that it shall not." What ever Sir John Malcolm had done in the case had proceeded from the best intentions, and it was a matter of regret that the Judges had not entertained an opinion to that effect. The Hon. Gent. then proceeded to contend, that the Supreme Court had no right to issue a writ of Habeas Corpus to the extent which Sir John Grant had thought fit to exert his authority. In point of fact, the decision of the Privy Council had set the question, in his mind, completely at rest ; and he was completely at a less to know what good would result from a decision of that House with respect to a question already pro nounced upon by the tribunal most proper to try it. For his own part, he conceived it would be an act of unfairness towards Sir John Grant to press this motion further. He said this, because Sir John Grant, though not dismissed, was recalled, for the purpose of giving him an opportunity of defending the course which he had thought proper to take. It was proper, therefor e, that nothing should be done which might be construed into a previous adjudica tion of the question. Mr. W. WleArN viewed this as a great question of principle, and not at all as a struggle between the two parties who appeared foremost in the business. lie believed that each of them, Sir John Grant and the Governor, acted from purely conscientious motives,—the one believing that, as a Judge, he possessed certain powers, which the other, guided by a sense of what appeared to him to be his duty, totallr denied. He could not, like the Hon. Gen• tleman, look upon the letter of the Noble Lord as a private letter.—(Hear, hear.) It was a letter from public officer to a public servant--(Fleur, hear) — stating the feelings and principles by which a public Board was swayed, and could not, therefore, be viewed as a private communication. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman then proceeded to argue, with reference to the charter, that it contained words of so extended and comprehensive a meaning as might have misled Sir John Grant, or any other Judge, with respect to the exact meaning of the Legisla ture. The Right lion. Gentleman concluded by saying, that if the question was pressed to a division, he should vote in favour of the motion. Mr. FERGUSSON, after an attentive consi deration of the subject, was of opinion that the Court of Bombay had been most decidedly in the wrong,—(llear.) He said this rafter 17 years' pro fessional service in India, where he had had pro bably more experience than any other professional person. Ile never could have supposed that a Judge in India would have held the doctrine main tained by Sir J. Grant. It was never intended, by the establishment of Supreme Courts in India, to give them jurisdiction over any other natives than such as chose to reside within the limite of the Courts : had it been otherwise, we should not have kept our Indian empire to this time. — The natives had laws of their ova, to which they were attached, and would never have sub mitted to such a system as ours. For 50 years such a jurisdiction had never been pretended to by a Judge of any of the King's Courts, for the cases quoted were not in point. It was worthy the consideration of his Majesty's Ministers, however, whether a declaratory act might not be passed to obviate similar cases, for the Privy Council had confined its scope to the cases before it. Though of opinion that the Bombay Court was wrong, and that Sir Charles Grey, the Chief Justice at Calcutta, who had justified the opinion of the Bombay Judges, was equally wrong, he (Mr. Fergusson) still thought that both Sir John Malcolm and Sir John Grant acted conscientiously. With respect to the notion which appeared to be entertained, that if the Su preme Court were not allowed to come in, the natives could have no justice, it should be remem bered that the Legislature had thought differently, since it gave authority to the local government to make regulations and to administer law through the Company's Courts ; and beyond the bounds of the Supreme Court, the Adawlut Court was supreme. Mr. R. GRANT, in explanation observed, that the decision of the Privy Council did not render a declaratory act less necessary : its opinion had been extrajudicial and ex-parte. Mr. PEEL said, with respect to the legal ques don, he considered that that had been decided by a tribunal more competent than the House, which had decided t hat in the issue of the writs the Judges had taken an erroneous view of the law. It was necessary for the sake of his argument, to place the independence of the Judges in India on lower grounds than that of the Judges of England. — (Hear, hear.)—The Judges in India were entitled to Occupy, within their limited jurisdiction, the same En independentglaiti(i._rank which belonged to the Judges of clear.)—But this was not a question of independence; it was a question of the assumption of an authority tvhieh the local government hail considered not only unfounded but dangerous, and which authority had been pronounced unjus tified by the Privy Council.—(llear, hear.) — He could not cxpest that gentlemen in that !louse should be able to argue properly as to the feelings of the natives of India with regard to the jargon of our laws. They considered it deroga , ory to them selves to attend at a distance from their homes, at a Court administering justice in a language which they did not understand, and according to forms a Ilia we ourselves did not comprehend, and which they thought contrary to their customs and religion. Sir J. Malcolm found that the claim of this juris diction by the Judges of the Supreme Court ex cited great alarm among those whom it was his wish and his interest to conciliate, and to whom he had bound himself by express stipulation that they should riot be called upon to attend in the 13ritish Courts. He drought that Sir John Malcolm had acted rightly throughout, and therefore he was bound to support him to the utmost of his power. He thought that Sir J. Malcolm had acted right, even in addressing that letter, which some conaidered so objectionable, to the Judges of the Supreme Courts. He tliought that Sir J. Malcolm could not have adopted any other course, without producing a colli between the executive and judicial power, which it w•ts on many accounts desirable to avoid. His letter was a private letter, intended to prevent the public notification of that collision. At the same time that he said this, it was only right to say that, from the high character of Sir Charles Chambers and Sir John Grant, he believed that they both acted from motives as pure as Sir John Malcolm; that they were convinced that their construction of the law was right ; and that they were compelled to act as they had acted by the ideas which they entertained of the proper dignity of the judicial character. With 'respect to Lord Ellenborough's letter, he must say that very erroneous impressions were entertained as to its purport and intention. — (Cries of" hear," and some laughter.)—He claimed no privilege for that letter, because it was a private letter; but he did think that they ought not to scru tinize the language in which his Noble Friend's opinions were thus privately expressed, as severely as they would the language of a public despatch. As for the doctrines which it contained, he denied that there was any thing in them from which it could be inferred that his Noble Friend intended to interfere with the independence of the fudges, or to make the Supreme Court subservient to the Go vernment. He would read the two strongest pas sages of it :—" Mr. William Seymour will probably be knighted before he sails, and as it will nut be right that the Chief Justice alone should not be knighted, we must consider in what manner that can be best effected. I believe it may be done by patent, but my present idea is to empower you, as • Governor, to confer the honour of knighthood on Mr. Dewar. This will evidently place the Gover nor above the Court. It will mark you out as the King's representative. You may make the cere mony as imposing as you please." From this it had been inferred that it was the intention of his Noble Friend to degrade the judicial situation in India, by making the natives look up to the Court as the mere dependent of the Governor ; but was such an inference warranted by his Noble Friend's expression ? If the object of the present motion were to pass a censure on his Noble Friend, it be came necessary fur the House to consider whether such censure was justifiable ; and nothing but that object would lead him to notice the comments made by Sir Charles Chambers on the letter of Sir John Malcolm. He wished to speak with every respect of Sir C. Chambers, not only because he was pos sessed of many eminent virtues, but also because he was dead : still respect for die dead must not be permitted to prevent him from doing justice to the living. The construction of his Noble Friend's letter depended in a great measure on the comments which Sir C. Chambers bad made in one of his charges on Sir John Malcolm's note. He first declared the whole of it to be written in a most dictatorial strain arid then proceeded to say, " If a hundred causes came before the Court under the same circumstances, I should feel no compunction in deciding them all in the same way; but a heavy responsibility rests upon those who, under the pretence of state policy, are only anxious to destroy the King's Government, and to put down a tribunal which is the only guard which the natives of India have against the abuses which power, without responsibility, is always sure to engender." In that passage a distinction was drawn between the Government of the King and the Government of the East India Company : the Judges being described as the representatives of the King, and the executive Government as the repre sentative of the East India Company ; and, to crown all, the natives of India were told that tine latter power was instigated by a strong desire to de. stony the former. When his Noble Friend said, " this will evidently place the Governor above the Court," he only meant to say, " You, Sir J. Mal colm, are to exercise your authority as the repre sentative of the King, by bestowing knighthood on Mr. Dewar,—a privilege which can only be exer cised by the King or his representative. By giving you this power, I show tine natives of India that yen, and not the Judges, are the representative of his Majesty." Then canoe that very celebrated pas ssge—(A laugh)—in which his Noble Friend said that no more mischief could happen, as Sir J. Grant would be like a wild elephant led away between two tame ones. He did not mean to vindicate those ex pressions; he repeated that he claimed no privilege for this letter as a private letter, but he did claim some indulgence for the terms in which it was writ ten. His Noble Friend had not published this letter himself, nor did he ever intend that it should be pub lished. If his Noble Friend had published it, and spoken deliberately thus unadvisedly of the Judges he would have been guilty of a great public offence, —(Cries of '' hear ")—but this he had not done, and the whole gist of this paragraph was, that Sir J. Grant would be compelled to revise his opinion, or that if he did not, it would be rendered harmless by his being joined with other Judges. Upon these grounds he should give a decided negative to the motion, as he conceived it intended to apply a cen sure to his Noble Friend. Mr. STEWART replied. The House then divided, when there appeared—. For the motion, 15 I Against it, 106 I Majority, 91. EAST RETFORD. On our return to the gallery we found Mr. N. CALVERT moving that the report of the East Retford Bill be brought up. Mr. STEWART objected to its being brought up at that late hour. lie had an amendment to move, and he was anxious to have a few Members present to discuss it. After a few words from Mr. Peel, Mr. N. Calvert, Sir J. Sebright, and Mr. Hume, the report was brought up, and agreed to. Mr. STEWART then moved his amendment, which was to the effect—that every Member who should hereafter be returned for East Retford and Bassetlaw should, on corning to the table to be sworn, make a declaration that he had not come to his seat by bribery, or by the influence of any Peer, or by any other unfair means. After a few words from Mr. Peel, Mr. N. Calvert, rind Mr. Warburton, against the amendment, and from Mr. Hume and Nlr. Stewart, in support of it, the question was put, and the amendment negatived. The Bill was then ordered to be read a third time on that day week. REMOVAL OF THE HAYMARKET. Lord LOWTHER moved for, and obtained, leave to bring in, and then brought in his 73111, to remove the market, at present held in the Hay market, to Cumberland-market and York-square, in the parish of St. Pancras. The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Monday, arid to he printed. LAW COALIII§ION. Mr. PEEL brought up the second report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the common law, which wits ordered to he printed. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Two o'clock: METROPOLITAN POLICE. An Account of all Monks received and rilly , n4e,l for the Purposes of the Metropon Police, male up to the 31.4 day of December, 1829, as required by the 29th Section of the Act - 10th Geo. IV. rotal Suin charged upon and received from each Pe rish, Township, Precinct, and Pia e, compted at a rate (4 Fourpence in the Pound. Amount receivt,l. t. R. (1. 2,761• 10 2,000 0 0 8,101 4 0 1,919 17 0 500 0 0 140 0 0 700 0 0 1,236 4 8 5,000 0 0 1,000 0 0 989 11 0 200 0 0 223 3 4 177 7 4 225 9 4 25 8 0 53 1 4 .0 s d 1,000 0 0 1,316 13 4 355 0 0 223 7 4 65 0 0 125,555 16 8 Oth Geo. IV. e, Amount due, Lind to b. received. 449 I S S 6,700 16 S 3 116 18 8 959 11 0 161 17 4 'Fotal Sum charged. .E. A. J. 3,764. 10 s 3,346 15 4 8,401 4 0 1.919 17 0 355 0 0 723 7 4 205 0 0 1,149 18 8 1,236 4 8 11,700 10 S 4,446 IS 8 1,979 2 0 364 17 4 223 3 4 177 7 225 9 4. 25 8 0 5:3 1 4 t 0,298 1 8 963 10 6 J 1,261 12 2 Total Expenditure. s. d. 651 17 1 15,252 11 0 430 0 0 178 4 0 1,240 18 1 1,555 8 9 244 15 3 324 17 7 173 4 9 22 19 4 1 2 6 24 10 6 682 6 2 5,782 11 0 495 9 6 8 4 8 56 7 6 16 8 0 221 ö 1 H 27,351 3 9 .Y, Receiver. Total Annual Value of the entire Property in every Parish, 'Pownship, Pre cinct, and Place, recording to the last Valuation for the time being, acted upon in assessing the C,,unty Rate. Name of Parish, eie. CITY AND LIRERTIE 9 OF WESTMINSTER. The parish of St. Janie, The parish of St. Martin-in•the-Fields The parish of St. George, Hanover-square The pari4ies of St. Margaret and St. John the Evan-' eelist Whitehall, Whitehall Gardens, and Richmond Ter race, in the foregoing parish The parish of St. Paul, Covent-Garden The parish of St. Mary-le-Strand, as well within the. liberty of Westminster as within the Duchy Liberty! The parish of St. Clement Danes, as well within the liberty of Westminster as within the Duchy Liberty • The parish of St. Ann, in the liberty of Westminster HOLBOR Divistox. The parish of St. 3farylebone The parishes of St. Giles-in-the-Fields and St . . George, Woornsbury The"parishes of St. Andrew, Holborn, and Sr. George the Martyr The liberty of Saffron-hill, Ration-garden, and Ely Rents The liberty of the Rolls EXTRA EAROCHIAL PLACES. Lincoln's Inn Gray's Inn... Staples Inn Furnivd's Inn, that part of, in the county of Mid diesex By Amount receive•' from the Consolidated Fund, a. Rental, X. 8. (1. 225,572 0 0 200,50 G 0 0 501,072 0 0 115,191 0 0 21.300 0 0 43,402 0 0 12,300 0 0 68,996 0 01 74,174 0 0 702,050 0 0 '2 66,816 0 0 1 15,716 0 0 21,892 0 0 13,390 0 0 10,612 0 0 13,528 0 0 1,524 0 0 3,181 0 0 12417,885 0 0 LI directed by the I Heads of Expenditure. Salaries Premiunaq Fixtures Furniture Outfit of Whitehall place Repairs Coals Lamps Rent and Taxes Insurance Law Charges..._ Outfit of Police Force Clothing Printing Stamps Maps Extra Allowance Contingenciei Particulars of Expenditure. 14,742 5 0 45 Receiver (Clerks X. a. (.1. 339 18 5 319 18 8 Superintendents 5lB 12 3 Inspectors Serjeants and Police Constables Premhuns on Station and Section Houses Fixtures in ditto ditto Bedsteads, Bedding, Tables, Chairs, Fenders and Fire Irons, &r. Furniture, Alt Tations, Fitting up and Fixtures Repairs and Alterations at Station and Section Houses Coals supplied to Police Stations and Force Lamps and Gas Li&its, including Oil and fitting-up Pipes Rents, Taxes, and Rates, for Section Houses, Ecc. Insurance on Section House, No. 27, Charles-street. Westminster Charge for making out Lease of No. 5, Red Lion-square Truncheons, Rattles, Handcuffs, Pistols, Swords, Staves Dress fnr Police Serjeacts and Constables Hats, Armlet, &c. for ditto 4,763 3 6 1,014 10 6 Printing, Stationery, Books, Lithography, Ike. Stamps Mips, Admeasurement of Districts, ttc Extra Allowance for Length of Service to Men trans; ferred from tbel Bow-street Establishment Paid by Superintendents for droning Watchhomes, Re fresliment to Prisonets, Candles, &c Paid for Books and Information relative to the formation of the New Police 68 16 5 Postage, Sundries, and incidental Expenditure METROPOLITAN POLITICAL UNION. Yesterday a meeting took place at the Eagle Tavern, City-toad, fur the purpose of taking into consideration the state of the country, and the adoption of a Metropolitan " Political Union." It was held in the bowling-green of that tavern, and the gallery along one side of the green constituted the hustings. A chair was placed in the centre of it for the Chairman. The landing-place at the top of the stairs, and in fi out of the gallery, was need as a " Forum," whence the several speaker, addressed the Meeting. The opposite wall, where the tennis game is played, acted as a boundary fur the Meeting, and limited the sound so well, that the persons near it could hear as well as those at short distances front the hustings. By eleven o'clock the people began to assemble in vast numbers, although the placards along the roads announced that the meeting would not commence business till one o'clock.— By twelve o'clock the green was entirely filled, and those who arrived afterwards, were obliged to content tkemselves with remaining at very respectful distances from the " Forum." All, however, could see very well, and the favourable weather kept all in good humour ; they were quiet till the commencement of the meeting. It was cal culated that at this time there were assembled not fewer ' than 16,000 persons. The gallery was full of company, half consisting of most respectably dressed ladies. The whole scene was an imposing and interesting one. At one o'clock the grand party entered the Bowling green. Mr. Hunt led the way. He was followed by Mr. O'Connell, a piety of friends, the Committee, &c. They were greeted with loud applause. Mr. O'Connell was dressed in a green frock-coat and a large blue mantle, carrying in his hand a blue travelling-cap with gold and green band. Mr. Hunt was true blue, both with coat and trousers. Having ascended the stairs, Mr. Hunt introduced Mr. O'Connell, who was hailed by rene Ned rounds of ap plause, followed by three rounds of cheers, on the proposi tion of Mr. Hunt. Mr. HURT then stepped forward. He begged to pre mise that all would endeavour to preserve silence and order; that none would make a noise by cry ing out " silence !" nor create disorder by calling out " order !"—(Cheers and laughter. )_He now had merely to propose that Daniel O'Connell, Esq., M.P., do take the Chair.—(Loud ap plauw.)—Carried unanimously, and with immense cheer ing, amidst which— Mr. O'CosieirLL stepped forward. He was truly prom! of the high honour they had just conferred on him—the honour of presiding over a meeting of honest British sub jects, who were too good to suffer themselves to he tilled by an oligarchy—too intellectual not to see the wrongs in flicted on them—and too patriotic not to look for Constitu tional redres.—(Cheers.)—This was not the first time he had to address a meeting in the open air ; on the con trary, as they might have heard, he had often had so to address his countrymen ; and, on all those occasion's, his countrymen had permitted him to address them with a cap on. He ha I the self-same cap with him—(holding up the aforesaid-described cap),—and, with their permission, he would do in England as he Lad done in Ireland.— (Cries of " Do, do.")—Ile would wear his cap ; but if it should be deemed a mark of disrespect, he certainly would not wear the cap, great as would be to him the convenience of wearing it.—(Renewed cries of " Do, do !" " Wear the cap.) Mr. O'Connell (having mounted his comfortable cap, amidst mingled applause's and merriment of the immense meeting) proceeded :—He said he held in his hand the requisition to the Lord Mayor, to allow this meeting to be held in the Guildhall, but it seemed his Lordship had declined to allow the meet ing to be held, though he had permitted the meeting about the Spaniards: his Lordship seemed to prefer the Spanish to the English, and in that he thought his Lordship showed very bad taste.—(Cheers and a laugh.)—He could not sympathise with any man whose tender mercies could see foreign calamities without being alive to those at home, and who could not be animated by the distresses and calls of those who had been deprived of the benefits of the freest Constitution, in England, by the efforts of an Oligarchy—an authority who had usurped to the few those powers and benefits which were intended for, and of right belonged to the many,—(Hear.)—He must again say, that having been called to the chair of this meeting, it was the proudest circumstance of his political life. He kart not been more gratified since he hail escaped from that political degradation to which he was once subjected, since the breaking of those chains which, with the blessing.of God, they had destroyed for ever. He differed from them somewhat in accent—his language had a touch of the Irish mountains, and ther e fore, perhaps, he might not he all they could wish ; but the selection they had made in desiring him to take the Chair was to him a source of consolation, comfort, and triumph. He also thanked them for the honour they had conferred on him, because it afforded him the opportunity of vindicating his principles as a Radical Reformer.—(Cheers.) —lle was, in the first place, a Radical Reformer of the abuses in the law—of the chicanery, expence, and delay, in what were called the Law Courts of the country. He wished the law to be clear and intelligible, and tke administration of it cheap, expeditious, and nnvexatious. lle would SO 0 0 72 8 8 JOHN WR. open the Courts to the poor as well as the rich, for the poor wanted law as well as the rich—perhaps muolt more. It was a saying that the Courts were open to all—they ought to be ; but, as Horne Tooke said, the London Ta vern teas open to a'l as well as the Courts, but what was the use of that to the poor?—(Loud cheers.)—He wanted to see open to the poor, Courts of Lew, where they would not be fleeced, and taxed, and shorn es they now were. He wanted to see those tolls broken down which blocked the roads to the Courts of Law. He would say, and say it boldly, that no Government was a just Government that did not pay the e. s's of the people obtaining justice. The Government paid the Judges, the Army, the Navy, and for collecting the taxes, And for Heaven knew what ; and he would add, that the Government ought also to pay all the officers and costs, so that the people might obtain juts. tics free of expence. He wished to see a very Radical Re form in those Courts.—( Hear. )—Air to the lionise of Com mons, as it was called, he wanted to see a Radical Reform there also. What the people wanted, and what he wanted too, was a " people's House."—(Cheers.)—What they had now was an instalment of the House of Lords, sitting in another Chamber. This was the first time, and it teas a cause of gratitude with him, that he had this opportunity of speaking—that he could make a public profession of his principles on the English stage of politics; and all would admit, he trotted, that his first appearance was charac terised by all becoming modesty and diffidence.—(A laugh.) —When he first appealed to his native county of Clare for their votes—and where he obtained such ti itnn pliant numbers of fearless, unpurches ride votes, in spite of the frown of landlords and the proffers of money—he promised the honest, independent, and bold men of Clare that, if elected, he would still take every opportunity to obtain a people's House of Parliament. And he made the like promise to the women of Clare.—(A laugh.)—He was now in a country where the women were famed for their beauty and angelic loveliness, and who deserved all the admiration we could bestow on them. But they were not more lovely, nor more deserving of the admiration of man than were the women of Clare ; and to them he ha promised that he would go hack and tell them what efforts he hail made to promote the cause which he had so near at heart. He should have the opportunity of telling them that he had realised his promise—that the opportunity which presented itself he had not suffered to go by. Ile would now tell the Meeting what were the objects of his pursuit. When young—when his blood flowed rapidly in its course, he railed his voice in the cause of liberty ; arid now, when he might be said, as far as years were con cerned, to be sinking into the " sear and yellow"—when the blood was receding front the check, his heart beat as warmly as ever for liberty.—(Cheers.)--Not front feel ings of personal ambition—not from mean and mercenary motives, for the sake of lucre—no, no, so help hint God! to achieve unadulterated human liberty, to procure the largest sum of human happiness, and to put au end to a monstrous oligarchy—(Load cheering)—to procure a just equality of just laws for all, which could not be obtained till the oligarchy was destroyed—that oli garchy which was the cause of heaping sufferings on mil lions who did not deserve to stiffer. Ile vowed that while he lived he would nut cease his exertions to obtai❑ such liberty ; and he would urge it by means of peaceable and rational agitation.—(Continued cheers.)—That had been his ♦ow in Ireland, and Ireland had triumphed ; he had joined in the exertions for Ireland, and that country was As free as they were. He had felt that oppression endured for centuries was monstrous, and that the interference be tween man and his God was blasphemous. He considered the act criminal.—(Hear.)—He felt too sincerely in his own person the value of having opinions respected, not to respect the opinions of men who sincerely differed from him ; but he always set that man down as a hypocrite who professed to be sincere in his religious opinions, and yet maintained that the force of the law was required to pro tect those opinions.--(Hear.)—Well, then, he had suc ceeded in emancipating his country from that degradation ; and now—as was the case of Mr. Petre, as regarded the " St. Leger"—having won one stake, Englishmen beheld him ready to start for another.—(Load and continued cheers.)—And what was the prize for which he would now contend? He would tell them in one word three times repeated—(A laugh.)—lt was " the Constitution, the whole Constitution, and nothing but the Constitution." (Cheers.) —To gain it he would have theta ad( pt mea sures similar to those which succeeded in Ireland, the object being the end of the Oligarchy. Should he ask them whether the House of Commons represented the people, why they would laugh at him for putting the ques tion, and he should not be able to refrain front laughing while he was asking the question.—(Cheering.)—Tivo thousand persona-2,000 persons, be it known—returnsal a majority of Members in the Commons House of Parlia ment, to represent the interests and feelings and rights— what remained !—of 30,000,000 of people. Oh ! eternal shame on those who had done thews things ; and; o'l, more eternal shame on those who bore them—who suffered such a system to last ! If a man stole a sheep he was hurried off to the Old Bailey, and justly ; but those who deprived them of their rights, who thus afflicted millions, why they could—go home and pray. But the people of England were, too good, and, he wcithl say, too prowl to submit to such a state of things any longer. Imps sib'e ! What, Ertl rod, who hrd set the exam pit to all Europe of having a limited in narchy. submit to the prevent state of Government C mrtiets, it was true, sometinies appeared , o be strong as well as proud ; but they were weakness itself when uppesed. That great Charter which was their just boast was obtained by the Nobility, aided by the Bishops—and hr wished they It id a few Bishops to co operate with thew just 110 W. —( A laugh.)—That great Charter wars not only obtained by the Barons and Bolt ps furring it from the Mona-ch and the timid c.nn•tiers. Err nal justice sanctioned the deed ; the hand of Heaven sinetioned it, tin uvll many were not able to sanction it by their hand-writing. At, that period, in 1215, the people were supported by the Nobility, and the N ibility sided with the peop'e. He would give honour where honour lea, rltre. Tie Nohility aided the people/ and ide Great Charter was obtained without the spilling of blood. Ile had always thou4lit that no good was to be obtained where they were oldiged to resort to the shedding of blood. It only tendril to strengthen power---- to call forth some military chieftain, and rn die him toaster who bad in fore been the people's champion. Regal ty r unity and !loyal despotism hail been successfully resisted, and a guard est.lblisheil in safe prerogative—well-defined prerogative, giving a principle of " fixity" to the Con stitution, and securing the people, if they had an honest House of Commons. But what (lid those Barons—what did the Nobility, when the contest was over ? Why they turned iif the people with whose aid they had suc ceeded ; they left the people, nod began to share the profits amongst themselv s. They took the prerogatives to themselves—the II rasa of Lords to themselves; and they usurped the House of Commons. Thus an odious Oli gayclay have taken from the people their just rights, and those advantages secured under the Great Charter. That Oligarchy now nominated a majority of the Commons ; and it was against the odious monopoly of power that he warred and would war. It seemed as if the Hon. Hours were disposed to laugh at themselves. At the beginning of the Session they paused what they called one of their Sessional Standing Orders, declaring that it was a high breach of privilege for any Peer to interfere in or influence the return of Members to the House of Commons. About half an hour afterwards one Member was evolving that he had purchased a sear from a Peer ; and soon afterwards another Member, the son of a Peer, was spoken of as having walked across the House, followed by eight or nine Peers, all of whom were returned by one and the same in fluence, and that influence said to be a Peer.—(Hear, hear.)—What then became of the Standing Order about the breach of privilege ? Ile was for restoring the House of Commons—for having it whit it was intended to be ; he desired that the House of Commons should be no longer a dead letter. And he would have those punish, d even worse than sheep-stealers, who should de prive the people of their inalienable rights. Only think of the modesty of the 2 000 people who returned so mini Members to the House of Commons ! They were mo re e upmlule of choosing proper Representatives fur the t w enty millions ; they had more good sense, more discrimination ! yes, virtual representation was better than real representa tion. Insolent proposition ! Bnt the people, to use a f,miliar adage, knew where the shoe pinched. How were those occupied who returned, or were returned by such me ms ? How did they think they were occupied? Why, in getting one brother made a Bishop ; the wife of so and so'e cousin made a General—others made Lords of the Bed chamber, or " Groorna of the Stole !"—(Laugh and cheers.) All places were occupied, no matter what they were, so long as salaries were attached to them ; nothing appeared too degrading for Noblemen, as they were called, and their nominees and dependents to accept, so that salary was at tached ; the cash was accepted, the degradation was un noticed. Alt ! but the system " worked well." So s aid Canning and whir humbugs of that drier iption.—(L n ud cheers and a laugh.)—But how did it work well ? Why, as the Gravedigger in Hamlet said by the gallows, "0 did well for those who did ill."—(Cheers and laughter.) But how had the Parliament worked for the people ? Why. it had loaded the country with a debt of 800,000,000/. ! Who before had ever {yen thought of such a debt !--- 4 debt of 500,000,0001. !—(Hear)--a debt so enormous that it would take a man fifty-two years to count out the money to pay it : a debt larger than all the money that was ever coined in the world. He would turn to the Oligarchy or any body who said the system worked well, and hold up before them eight hundred millions of debt!"—(Hear.) They might have grown rick a hile that debt was contract ing,—they might have raised fine Palaces, and had rare merry nights and 11.1)s while they were fastening that mill stone around the neck of old England. Th at d e b t m ight h rve worked well for them, but at last what had it done fur the people ; to what state had it reduced them? Go from Land's End to John o'Great's Tavern, as far as the Giant's Causeway ; go from one end of the country t o the other, and they would find that time people were plunged into deep, dire, crushing, afflicting, universal distress.-- (Hear, hear.)—Who imposed that distress on the country, or the indu•trions people of England? Was it the fault of Englishmen that they were in distress?—(Cries of " No, no.") Were they not as industrious as ever?-- (Hear.)---Were they not as intelligent as ever?—(Hear, hear.)—Had they not continued to make vast improvement in manufactures and machinery?—(Hear, hear, with some noise at the gates leading into the grounds, owing to the people pressing forward to get in.) Mr. HuNr stepped forward and begged to state that lie haul just received a letter stating that there were upward. o!' fire thousand persons on the outside, wine, though anx'ons, were unable to get into the grounds ; be begged those present to move a little to the right and that would afford some relief.—[They did so, and in the move broke down some of the b lrriers in front of the gallery, which afforded some additional space, enabling many- to get un der or nearer to the gallery. Many contrived to get on the roof of the gal cry, which for a time created some alarm among the ladies lest the roof should give way. However all remained tolerably safe, and order was soon restord.] Mr. O'CoNwELL resumed. He would take up his ad' dress where he had left off. Ho was telling them—indeed he was " thinking aloud," that the industry and the abi' lity of Englishmen had remained the same; they were as economical and intelligent as ever, and there were masses of capital in the country if they could only be used. All the mischief was attributable to tine people not having proper organs in the House to represent their interests and feel ings. He would have that defect corrected; be would cut down the sinecures and useless places, and he would have those reduced who reduced unjustly sixpence too much, and not only make them return the sixpence, but a half.. penny for the interest thereof.— (A laugh.)—This country would never have known its present distress if there had been fair play between man end man ; nil had arisen because the people were subjected to the lifflicting scourge of a^ Oligarchy. He would say, and he would say it openly , though Inc hated regel tyranny with all a freeman's hate, he would prefer it to the rule of an odious Oligarchy. Such tyranny would be easier to be borne than time grinding rule of an Oligarchy that fattened on the miseries of a p eo ple. The Oligarchy met them at every turn. Whatever they ea v, tasted, or touched, was poisoned by taxation.--' In time shoe% that they wore they trampled on it ; and time hat that surmounted them was likewise the subject of tax. During their lives they were taxed in every way, and in every direction ; and when thef died they could not go to their graves without being taxed. Would any body tell him that if the representation were in the state in which it ought to be—that if they had an adequate House of Commons, the people ever could have been brought into such a etate? Hough a House had done such things, he thought they would pretty soon have been kicked our.—(A laugh.)—But the oligarchy` taxed them and fleeced them ; they had realized the fable of the dogs and the wolves ; they had destroyed the people's guardians, so that the " wolves" had been able to do what they pleased. They were in the situation of hungry wolves descending from the Appennincs, when the dogs w ere gone, and the watchmen asleep. If the food of the people were taxed, why was it ? To pint money into the pocket' of the rich. He hated the cant about free trade : it gave, cheap milks to the higher ot dere, while another law existe d taxing food. Ile hated cant of every sort; but the tea t about free trade was to him peculiarly disgusting —a free trade for time luxuries of the rich, and secure tax on the necessities of the poor. Then, what was the remedy furf all this mass of mischief and evil ? He thought ther e was too much good sense in the country to put up with such evils much longer : he would repeat, the Englis h were too proud to endure them. What ! had the iron s ° entered their souls that they would permit themselves t ° be branded as slaves ?—(Cries of " No, no.")—Thee, what was the remedy ? Parliamentary Reforin—Badie gi R e fomin.—(Loud cheers.)—What he meant by Radica l Reform was, that terry man sluimild vote for his Represen' native, and that no man shoell be deprived of his vote bee by the verdict of a Jury, on being proved to be a innatiet at somewhat less expence, too, than 30,060/.—(A l au ghs and he ir.)--He had ever insisted, and would ever insit t against the principle of property deciding the Repre sentation ; and yet they who talked about property being represented, maintained the rights of the borough' where there was no property.—(llear, bear.)—Was this not an insult to their common sense? The property in the borough was a fiction—in plain English, a lie.—(A laugh.) It was a lie that was pmit upon two legs and made to wall° He maintained that it was not property but men that were to Ee represented;—not cheep, bollocks, Ece., bat rhea; --4 not fund Wanted t of 20 0( re turne,l Were to field s of ttl en aellte point ; o Irish, ant conl.l ma thAt rim he so in, v‘qing, o mom gens more ti egp ec t e , from v i r contend to be re ballot. extengio con reye( been ti i therefor in prefi But on honestly (Cheers fits Parham masters. not exp , 8,000,C and tha the adv to faint only inc vent go ton had stron g lishmer strike— them e law as If they where I would enable compel were lit mended would into tht paler 1 yet y the the me( attack. face ap other Press o he with to SUpF mining from ti tional content station men. on by I Oligan For a Englan Oligarc it ongh (Loud Mr. maid, tl Was fti someth he won Mr. lotions, Union, Reform Mr, mensit: unflersi missior gentlen seleetet be sub' Politic to 50. that it was, I should not attl c e I Mr, Mr, to pay That tl hiant) was co and Ja at thil4 ',rough where llunt, him, ai "car e Atr. tio n to to thin ealled up on proud tyrant, eolenh i other I the eh ' Was w