The Sun. — London, England, 1833-03-05 00:00:00

COUNTY OF LOUTH ASSIZES. DUNDALK, FEB. 27. Baron Sir W. C. Smith and Chief Justice Bushe ar rived here last night between eight and nine o'clock, accompanied by Edward Tipping, Esq., High Sheriff, and attended by a numerous cortege. About twelve o'clock to-day the Hon. Baron took his seat in this Court, imme diately after which the commission was read by Walter Bourne, jun., Esq., and the grand pannel called over. BARON SMITH'S CHARGE. The Jury having been empannelled, Sir W. Small ad dressed them and a very crowded Court (every individual listening with almost breathless attention) as follows : Gentlemen of the Grand Jury,—l am sorry to have, in addressing you, to begin by deploring what has at least 'been very recently the situation of your county. If re. tort has not exaggerated, it must, however, he deplored. If peace be tranquilla libertas (and it has been so defined), six weeks have not elapsed since the condition of Louth was any thing but peaceful. On the contrary, quietusn aervitium would have been a better description of its state. lts mock tranquillity seemed produced by the prostration of the law ; the non-resistance of the well-disposed, and triumphant ascendant of vulgar and lawless power, which was only not in savage action because it appeared already to have won the, day. Thus, by a sort of prac tical paradox, the lightness of its calendar showed the state of your county to be alarming. I am aware that it has, still more recently, and very suddenly, assumed the appearance of tranquillity of a somewhat different na ture ; but can a change so instantaneous be traced to causes justifying rational exultation ? Can the latter calm be less treacherous or delusive than the first ? May it not have in part arisen from a certain completeness of organ isation—a perfection of seditious discipline, which can render implicit and prompt obedience to, epistolary edicts, aided by universal and influential subsidiary efforts to enforce them? May not the arrival of a stipendiary ma gistrate, the addition to the police,—nay, the speech and measures with which the Parliamentary session has been opened, have contributed to produce a calm less trium phant, but more insidious, than the first? A spirit that lurks, and merely waits its opportunity for effectual mis chief, is not laid. A quiet, originating in terror and in craft, would seem to have succeeded one which had its more insolent and haughty source in unencountered strength and successful intimidation. But even the former domineering and despotic stillness, which has, with a suddenness so conspicuous, given way to a different calm, was not uninterrupted. By occasional outrages it evinced that savage ferocity was but suspended, and these outrages were characterised by a system, and uniformly pointed in a direction, which showed them to be tesults of consistent plans, and of a factious confedera tion, if individuals of the humbler class were the chief objects of such aggression, yet I have learned, from some thing more authentic than mere rumour, that for this the kgettry were in some degrees indebted to their own precau tions—that their dwellings were, in too many instances, transformed to redoubts, which their garrisons would scarcely venture to issue from unarmed. This is a state of things which could not list. Either the law, or some thing stronger than the law, must put it down ; or it would prostrate the fair fabric of our laws and Constitu tion. Indeed, that something stronger than pre-ent law, —that dictatorial authority, which insubordination has provoked, seems on the point of being enacted. The tem porary despotism which, urged by a strong necessity, it sanctions, will, I moat anxiously hope, be of but short duration ; and I as sincerely hype and trust, that the die. cretienary powers which it confers will be as wisely and judiciously, as I am sure they will be honestly and hu manely, used ; that they will he administered with reference rather to the spirit, than to what may turn out to he the mere letter of the coercive law ; that they will be pointed against the seditious movements which this absolute authority was intended to resist ; that its salutary conflict (in the language of the Royal speech) will be "with that spirit of insubor dination:and violence which has risen to the most fearful height, rendering life and property insecure, defying the authority of the laws, and threatening the most fatal con sequences, if not promptly and effectually repressed." Vulgar cunning has been much too long, and (considering how clumsy was its artifice) most unaccountably trium phant ; but right-handed wisdom, at the long-run, will overcome it. The stern code which is said to be impend ing I have seen described as the ens'avement of our country. If permanently established, it would be truly so described ; het, considered as a transient system, it may, on the con trary, if duly administered, be our liberation. it may rescue from insecurity the now precarious lives and proper ties of the loyal and well-conducted. It may liberate from manacles, insult, and aggression, the fettered, the violated, and derided law. It may rescue a maniac multitude from the destructive frenzy into which it has been goaded. It may do co by an application of indispensable and salutary coercion. As long as England conforms to the true principles of the Union, I shall wish the strict and blending connexion which is established to subsist. But one of those principles, and a main one, is this :—that Ireland, which before the Union, was an independent though connected country, should, by the Union, not have lost, but incorporated its independence ; and become of the British empire, not a province, but a part. We owe what may be called alle giance to the Union, but not any to connexion substan tially different from what the articies of the Union have prescribed. It is our charter, for which we have paid a weighty price; which it is our right and duty loyally to defend, and which, but with our lives, we ought not to surrender. If it were violated,—but it never will be, an Irishman's duties might become (Efferent from what they are. After dwelling at length on the Grand and Petit Jury system in Ireland, Mr. Baron Smith said, the cri minal law is a frontier and key-fortress, the destruction or surrender of which would leave our social establishments quite exposed and without defence. But if the jurors who garrison this fortress be not " good men and true ;" if they be improbi, not probi ; if instead of being " not suspect," they are obnoxious to well-merited suspi cion and distrust—such a garrison might betray the for tress, and lay the constitution open to the invader. lam a sufficient old bird to distinguish chaff from grain—a suf ficiently old (I will not say statesman) to have learned the diplomatic cipher of sedition. Accordingly, when the factious enjoin tranquillity, I understand the drift, and do not doubt the sincerity of the injunction; Duly interpreted, it is this D o not, by premature explosion, suffer the formidable extent and mischief of your revolutionary ob j- cts to transpire. In doing so you will defeat them, de tect the ambuscade, and frustrae half the plans of us, your whole-length leaders. If your intentions be thus noised, the constituted authoriti e s will no longer slumber ; they will encounter your daring projects ; and perhaps may not be quite too late to check your pride.' " Why must this be a true interpretation of their injunctions ? Because we must otherwise suppose them intent on extin guishing a conflagration which their every act, and every breath, is contributing to promote. lam less given to estimate the value of a system I,y its theory than by it 4 practical operation and effects. But the jury system in Ireland, in the main, has worked well ; and for whatever present safety, or prospect of future security remains to it, the country is in part indebted to this fact, that in the main its jury system has worked correc tively and well. If it continue in operation, it may still, I think, work well ; not, perhaps, as well as it has done heretofore (extrinsic aul formidably sufficient cause., lately come into robust existence, are likely .to prevent this), but incomparably better than any system radically different from it would be found to do. I even doubt whether the very circumstances which may forbid its working as well hereafter, as it has done heretofore, are not additional and strong reasons for allowing it to con tinue. I take it to have hitherto, in general (though not so Effectually as every friend to peace and order must de sire), been a barrier against aggressions of which no obser vant man can doubt the object; and, of course, I would rather strengthen than remove this barrier, when these aggressions are daily, and violently, and too successfully increasing in audacity, mischief, and turbulent extent. To the well working of our jury system there may, there must, have been occasional exceptions ; but if " Crowners quest law" juries have ever pronounced an officer of the law to he a murderer for having performed his duty, in re pelling force by force; or found peasants guiltless if not meritorious, for having resisted the law, and slain the Ministers of justice, in their execution of it ; these could not have been jurors empannelled by a Sheriff. But our present system might be altered in such a way as to ex pose us to the risk of having juries commonly in a Crown Court resembling those who are occasionally upon an in quest. I will net say that never at assizes have improper verdicts been returned ; I will not say ti hether anything of this sort Inte4 recently occurred ; but the errors, if com mitted, have in general produced, not the condemnation of the innocent, but, what. must be considered as a lesser evil, the acquittal of the guilty. And, above all, these errors arose, not from the exercise of the Sheriff's right of selection, but from causes, which a d epr i ving him of this right of s e l e cting would increase; so that for one objectionable verdict, we might then be lik e l y to meet a thousand, if.the I r i s h C o nstitution lasted long enough to give tirre for their being found. I know a fashion has arisen of arraigning the conduct of our Sheriffs, an d the working of our jury system in tievir hands. But when, through the proceedings of some of these arraigurrs I discern their views, my attachment to that system, in the main, is considerably strengthened by their disappros ation ; and my detectiou of the innovator's cloven foot, rendered the more disgustingly complete. At the Maryborough: Special Commission, where I bad the honour of sitting with my Lord Chief Justice, we had a challenge of the array disposed of by eminently intelligent and upright triers. And what was the issue of that inquiry? A complete and sa tisfatory vindication of the Sheriff; a finding that he had faithfully and fair!) , discharged his duty. That lie bad performed it effectually and beneficially the several ver• dicls found at the commission went to prove. In like manner, under the auspices of the present Jury system, tranquillity was restored to Clare, and to some other counties, by the special commission at which Judges Moore and Jebb presided. A certain class of persons are at present bound to serve on Juries, if the Sheriff choose to call them ; but if either theory or practice deprived him of a clear right of sound discretional rejection, I doubt wether what is now submitted to as a liability might not, by and by be asserted, by the dregs of a thronged Jury list, as a right ; and this under seditious and revolu tionary advice, and for purposes of a proportionably mis chievous character and description. To return to our Jury system. I should not, nor would the Legislature, approve of theoretic items, which vanished and altogether disappeared in practice. Such a system would be preg nant with manifest abuse. The nominal power which it gave would be worse than none at all ; for while it would be dormant and of no avail, the theoretic concession of it would b file expostulation and impede redress. That system, says the poet, " Which is best administered is best ;" and if there be too much latitude in such a doctrine, at least it is not more than enough to say, that the system most likely to generate abuses is the worst. If the present, system were of such a kind as I have just described, our expostulatory objection might be met wi , h such mere talk as this What prevents the Sheriff from selecting ?he is not forbidden. His not selecting is mere omission, non-feasance and abuse on his part; and we are not to argue from abuse against the use." But the present system is not such. Giving the Sheriff a substantial power, and attaching an adequate responsibility to this power, it makes them, as they ever ought to do, go hand in hand. It is a principle pervading our Constitution that they ought to do so. To embrace in the jury list all who possessed a low pecuniary qualification, would be to reduce the property and intelligence of each county to comparative minuteness; overwhelmed in a smothering mass of its pauperism, prejudiced ignorance, fomented bigotry, and faction. Would the class who are so unconscientiously urgent to register as 101. voters be less anxious to be on the return as 101. jurors? Such return would seem cor roborative of their right to register as electors, and vice versa; and in both instances political influence and party predominance would be the object. Where would the selecting Sheriff find a competent number of the probi et legales of whom he was in search ? To my conjectural foresight of the contents of any list supplied by less trustworthy persons than himself the eligible Jurors apparent rani, the scattered wrecks and scanty fragments of the past, surrounded by a stormy waste of tumultuous agitation, roaring to the Sheriff to return as Jurors the disorderly trash which its tempests had cast up. In such a state of things we might require a at: ong national reinforcement of police. But who would wish to enter on such a service? To be pro nounced a murderer, perhaps, on some inquest if he dis charged his duty ; or, if slain, to die persuaded that those who slew him would nut be likely to incur any such im putation. In the state which I will not say that lam foreboding, many of our Crown Court Juries might resemble what occasionally our Inquest Juries may have appeared to be; and I fear we might have to look for re fuge and protection to the impartial despotism of military force. It has been said that inter arma silent leges, but our laws seem already to be nearly silenced; their com paratively "still small voice" drowned in the stupid up roar of seditious mobs; the spouted nonsense of their silly, set mischievous haranguers : and the crash of confedera ted violence, outrage, and defiance. Can any man, too, have failed to observe how the letter has been set up against the spirit—the dead letter against the animating spirit of the law ? I resisted, and tried to discomfit this unnatural array. The letter of the law is but the trustee of its spirit ; and if crafty mis interpretation seduced it to betray its trusts, it became the duty of the Judge to compel it to perform them ; and (f er example) to force the idle and mischievous sophistry of " passive resistance" to stand by. With reference to what within the last two years I have been, to little purpose, proclaiming from the bench, perhaps, in the language of a Roman senator, I may say, " evenerunt qua prtedixi eventura." If this be so, may not I claim attention to forebodings which profess to flow from no higher sources than mere observation end experience? In the anti titheism of the mob I beheld a v,stibule introducing to anti-rental doctrine ; and this latter opening upon an arena for tumultuous anti -property and anti-rank conten tion; though in the demolition of rank and opulence the constitution that supported them must come down, over whelming in its fall the interests of those persons who rashly pulled it to the ground. Why did I boldly denounce an angry and increasing power, which more than menaced any one who should venture to oppose it? Gentlemen, `because I am a servant of the public, or, more properly, of that law which is the guardian of the public and first born of the constitution. The performance of the ju dicial services is, in general, attended with no danger; and perhaps, for example, in the present instance there may be none, nor have been any; but though there were, that Judge would be an unfaithful servant who did not prefer incurring the risk to shrinking from the duty. Neither, at my time of life, is there much heroism in its Performance. When Solon was asked what gave him courage to oppose the usurped domination of Pisistratus, he answered, "My old age !" I, it is true, am not like Solon, either a legislator or a sage ; nor so advanced in years as he was when he gave this explanation ; but that man must have an inordinate appetite for life to whom, after 60, and in the polluted as well as stormy atmosphere Of Ireland, life has not lost some portion of its flavour ; at least enough to dissuade him from purchasing more of it by a relinquishment of duty. Trusting, then, my conjec tures of the future, from my having been hitherto no erro neous prophet, or sayer of anything that was not sooth,— proclaiming, too, those conjectures, either because my nature is not timid, or that I borrow, like Solon, intrepi dity from age,-1 will say that if it were no% at the full option of the Sheriff (exercising a sound discretion, not an Arbitrary choice), to select from amongst persons qualified in other respects the "good and true, and not suspect," h•e might have candidate ten-pounders crowding to the assizes, to give their verdict-votes, as they rush at pre sent to registrations or to booth,. Gentlemen, I have said little of your own peculiar duties. Your grade, and your experience are pledges for your perfect know ledge and due performance of them. You are what I have called you—" gentlemen." The rank of gentlemen is not a mere artificial—it is a natural rank ; insomuch that it is sometimes met within the humbler, and missed from the higher walks of life. A breath cannot make it a breath has not made. Vulgar violence may upset and trample on it for a time, but it will rise again. It is a rank which nature, aided by education, gives, and therefore cannot be permanently abolished by the puny art of man. It is not only a natural, it is a moral rank ; and there fore, instead of being depressed, ought to be cherished and maintained. It, as well as " a bold peasantry," may be its country's pride; and, for the sake of the ranks be neath, it ought to be fostered and upheld. A Christian gentleman will be at once religiously and honourably ob servant of his oath. He will not attenuate its obligations into thin air and fallacious nothing. He will give us, without mystification, the substantial benefits of its secu rity ; he will leave it a solid, tangible, unequivocal, and binding pledge. Why therefore should I exhort you to a due performance of what I may call the financial portion of your ditties? The more than rumours which prevail of an intention to abridge or regulate your assessing powers, can add no force to the already sufficient obligation of your oaths. You probably will not forget that grand jury law should be submitted to revision. You will probably agree with me, that as all human institutions and proceedings are imperfect, the powers of grand juries have occasionally, perhaps too often, been abused; and sometimes exercised, though not impurely yet erroneously, and to disadvantage. But you will also probably agree with me, that as almost every thing in Ireland is exaggerated, so have these abuses been ; and while visited by some with just animadversion, are exclaimed against by others with democratic objects, and for the purpose of establishing more dangerous powers and worse abuses in their room. kientlemen, so far as you can foresee them, anticipate legislative regulations, by regulating yourselves. In recommending that you be frugal, I do not mean that you should be misers. A system may be penurious without being advantageous or cheap. A government, for example (and to advert, for illustration, to one of the shallow gossips of the day).— which costing little is worth less,—is not a cheap govern ment, according to my old-fashioned notions of political economy. Cheap, I translate a bon marche ; and that which is valuable, and for which we pay no more than it is worth, or than we can afford, I entitle cheap. I would not recommend that his Majesty should doff his ermine, and Open his Parliaments in a frieze surtout, merely because this cos tume would be far less costly than his royal robes; and a linsey-woolsey speech be quite as intelligible as a velvet otte. But I suspect that lam of your class. I suspect that I am a gentleman ; and that my views and calcula tions are proportionably obsolete. Gentlemen, I have said so much on one or two sub. fects, that I will not detain you by discussing others. To conclude, then :—I do not wish to speak or think despond ingly; and therefore I will not say that the present jury system is our last position, stronghold, and retreat. But I will say that our defences are not so numerous, or our establishments so unassailed, that we should forsake and raze a bulwark, which is amongst the strongest that we have left. I hope the Constitution has not, like myself, " fallen into the sear, the yellow leaf ;"—at least that it still will find itself at once hale, and surrounded " By honour, love, obedience, troops of friends ;" and that it and I may meet you here again;--your fields not echoing the flagitious nonsense of mob-suited haran gues, or the shots and screams and burnings, which their mischief-making violence has produced;—your houses without barricades; your pockets without pistols; your frenzied peasants once more sane; yourselves assembled under, in substance, that well-working jury system which has now brought you here; and presenting me—not with indictments or convictions, but with acquittals, congratu lations, and white gloves. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCII 4. On the LORD CHANCELLOR taking his seat, at five o'clock, Several Gentlemen of the House of Commons brought up a Road Bill. Lord KING presented a petition from Scawby, in Lin. colnshire praying for the total and speedy abolition of slavery; also a petition from Wigmore, in Somersetehire, to the same effect. Lord AMHERST presented a petition from the rate payers of Sr. George's, Hanover-square, complaining of the assessment for the metropolitan police, and also a pe tition from the same persons, complaining of the mode in which the poor rates are levied in England. The Bishop of BRISTOL presented a petition, signed by upwards of 14,000 inhabitants of the city of Bristol, praying for the better observance of the Sabbath. He hoped that his Majesty's Ministers would take the case into their serious consideration. Lord WYNFORD said that he joined in the wish of the Right Rev. Prelate, and hoped also that his Majesty would make some alterations in the present Beer Act, which had been the cause of a great many evils. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that case was now under consideration. The Esrl of ROSEBERY presented a petition from a parish in Linlithgow, to the like effect. He also held in his hand a petition to which he would call the attention of the House, as it related to Church pa tronage in Scotland. It prayed that the patronage might be taken out of the hands of the Crown and the other holders, and transferred to the congregation at large. It was from the p Irish of Urquhart, in Ross. The petitioners had requested him to present it, stating that they had confidence in him from the general line of his conduct, at which he felt great pride, be- cause he was not at all connected either with that county cr any of the petitioners. Strong doubts existed in his mind as to whether the advantages which the petitioners promised to themselves would be realized, and whether they wo tld not be attended with some evils. He was sure that when the subject came before Parliament it would meet with the c .1m attention of all persons, on account of the deep interest of all the people of Scotland. The Bishop of GLOUCESTER presented a petition from a parish in York , hire, praying for the better ob servance of the Sabbath. The Bishop of LONDON presented petitions from a place in Yorkshire, St. Alban's, and other places, pray ing IT legislative enactments, for the better observance of .he Sabbath. Earl CLONCURRY presented a petition from the parish of Carrington Cross (we believe), county Cork, which the Noble Earl stated had three prayers. Mist, it prayed that no measures of coercion might be passed in respect to Ireland ; 2d, it prayed for the abolition of tithes ; and, Sd, it prayed for a provision for the des titute, the infirm, and the aged.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Earl also presented a petition from a parish in the King's county to the same effect. Also two from parishes in Limerick against tithes. Th-e Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented a petition from a parish in the county of Somerset, praying for a legislative enactment to prevent the increasing demorali zation of the poor. The Marq - uis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from a place, the name of which we could not hear, pray ing for the abolition of negro slavery. Earl CAWDOR presented a petition from Nairn against slavery. Lord WHARNCLIFFE presented a petition from the Master Cutler and other inhabitants of Sheffield, praying for the letter observance of the Sabbath. Earl GREY presented petitions, praying for the abo lition of negro slavery, from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Doncaster and Morpeth ; from the merchants of Lynn, praying for an alteration in the stamp duties; and Irons the inhabitants of Clifton, in Cheshire, praying that they might participate in the rights of the corporation. The Earl of RODEN presented petitions, praying for the better observance of the Sabbath, from the Presbytery of Aberdeen, Inverleithy, in the county of Iladdington ; from Marlow, county of Cork ; from Kirkintulloch ; and from Tring, in Somersetshire ; and against slavery from Inniskillen, the Presbytery of Newcastle-on-Tyne, in connection with the Church of Scotland, and from Marlow. Some private Bills were then read a second time, and ;he House adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 4. At five o'clock the SPEAKER entered the House and took the chair. A message from the Lords was brought up by two Mas ters in Chancery, requesting the House to permit Dominick Brown, Esq., a Member of the House, to be examined be fore the Lords' Committee of Privileges, on the right of Viscount Dillon claiming to vote for the representative Peers of Ireland. CARMARTHEN ELECTION. Mr. RICE TREVOR rose to move the order of the day for taking into consideration the . petition of Mr. John Williams in respect of thi s matter. The petition against the election was presented on the 20th of last month against the Member for the borough of Carmarthen, and this petition stated that one of the gentlemen who should enter into the necessary recognizances for the purpose of carrying on the petition, had to attend the assizes which commenced at Carmarthen on Saturday last.—( Hear, hear.) That gentleman was exceedingly desirous of attending as an important witness at a trial to be brought on at the Brecon assizes. To-morrow was the last day for entering into recognizances, and he had been subpmnsed on Saturday. Not being able both to attend his duty in that House, which was paramount, and to attend as a witness in a court in the country, lie made this application to the House, that it should extend the time for entering into recognizances for 14 days. The petitioner also added, that if the Howe should not grant that extension, it would permit another name to be substituted for his, in order that the petition might be proceeded with. He (Mr. Rice Trevor) would not detain the House with any prolonged statement on the case, but would leave it to the House, expressing a hope that they would grant the prayer of the petition. An Pox. MEMBER moved as an amendment that the evidence on the Fetition be now gone into, according to the provisions of the Act 9th Geo. IV. The petition' was altogether irrevelant. The SPEAKER said there was nothing more reason able than the prayer of the petition. No doubt the op posing parties should be extremely watchful, and pro bably they might be justified in being somewhat suspicious when an application was made for a change in the name of the security. In the present instance, however, the petitioner only applied when he knew that his attendance in that House would be a justi fication for his absence at the assizes, that they might extend the time for his entering into the recognizances. The circumstanc e s did no t a ff ec t th e sit- ting Member. The petition was not coupled with any application that the day for taking the petition into con sideration should be postponed. Lord ALTHORP said the petition did not at all affect the sitting Member. The question was, whether the ends of justice should be defeated by not granting the prayer of this petition. He (Lord Althorp) was of opinion that the House would act harshly by this gentleman, if it did not permit him to go down to the assizes. It did not affect either party to the petition in the slightest degree. The question was then put by the SPEAKER, and the time was extended, according to the prayer of the petition. Mr. WILKS postponed his motions for a Select Com mittee as to Parochial Registrations, from March sth to March 21st, for leave to bring in a Bill to exempt places of religious worship From poor rates, from March 12th to March 28th, and for triennial Parliaments from March 21st to May 14th. Lord EBRINGTON moved for a return of the names of the Governors and Deputy, or Lieutenant-Governors, of his Majesty's garrisons at home and abroad, with the date of each appohatment.--Ordered. On the motion of Mr. C. ROSS, leave of absence was given to Mr. Howard during the continuance of the Northern Circuit. IRISH DISTURBANCE SUPPRESSION BILL. On the motion that the Order of the Day for resuming the adjourned debate on this Bill be made, Lord HOWICK wished, before the Order of the Day was read, as the Hon. Member for Bridport (Mr. J. Romilly) was present, to call the attention of that Hon. Member to a misunderstanding—(Hear)-- which bad gone abroad respecting what he had stated on a former evening. That Hon. Member, when quoting from the late Sir Samuel Romilly, said, that in 1806 or 1807, the then Government proposed to bring into Par. liament the Insurrection Act for the purpose of putting down disturbances in Ireland, which they had not com municated to either of their law officers, the Attorney or Solicitor-General, and that the Honourahie Member said one reason why he would support the present Bill was, that two Members of that Government were now in office. He (Lord Howick) believed that that was a misunderstanding of what had fallen from the Hon. Member; but it was right, nevertheless, that the House should know what were the circumstances that had been alluded to. A Bill certainly was in the con templation of the Government of that day, for the purpose of suppressing the disturbances in Ireland ; it was drawn up and submitted to Mr. Grattan, by whom it was approved of; it was then sent to this country, a few days before the then Administration broke up ; it was received by the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and sent by him to the other members of the Government. It was a fact that the discussions which led to the break. ing up of that Government were then taking place. It so happened that his father, who was the leader of the Go vernment in that House, had received the draft of the Bill, but when the Government was broken up, he had not had time to examine it. It was fit that these circumstances should he stated, in order that it might be seen that the Bill had been submitted to the Cabinet of that day, but that it was not in that state that it could be laid before the law officers of the Crown. He trusted the House would pardon him for making the statement he had done, as he had thought it right to set the difficulty at rest. Mr. JOHN ROMILLY could assure the House and the Noble Lord, that he had not the slightest notion or intention of raising the observations which had fallen from the Noble Lord. He had never in tended to cist any thing resembling an imputation on the Members of 1806. When he made the statement, he felt as strongly as he did at that time that the passage conveyed no imputation whatever; nay, more, he felt assured he should be acting contrary to the feelings of the author of the passage had he meant to convey any impu tation. If any such expression had fallen from him, it was quite different from what he had intended—quite con trary to the feelings be then, and now, had towards his Majesty's Government. The Order of the Day was then read, and Dr. BALDWIN rose to address the House. The explanation which the Honourable Member, who bad just sat down, had made to the Noble Lord, he trusted, would satisfy Lim ; hut to the Irish Members it was only a satisfaction in this respect, that so eminent a man as Sir Samuel Romilly con demned the introduction of the Insurrection Act. He came into this House with feelings of the greatest re spect and regard for the Noble Lord at the head of the Treasury, as also the Noble Lord (Althorp); and he was under the impression that he should not be opposed to the Administration, except on the question of repeal. He knew from a speech he had himself heard of the Noble Lord's (Althorp), that he was opposed to the repeal of the Legislative Union, but in general be thought his views so enlightened, his principles so pure, his patriotism so unquestionable, his tone of human ity and desire for improving the condition of the human race, in every part of the world, so warm, that he (Dr. Bald win), had no doubt he should be able to support the Ad ministration to which he belonged in all things except the repeal of the Union. He could not say that the Noble Lord had not still his respect and admiration, but he thought the Bill now before them so contrary to the rights of main—he did not mean to use revolu tionary language, and hoped that speaking of the rights of man was not contrary to the usages of Parliament ; he thought this Bill so contrary to the spirit of the Constitution and laws of England that he could give his confidence to no Administration nor any individual who supported it. He believed the Noble Lord to have the kindest disposition and most elevated principle', but by some fatality or error of judg ment, or from that judgment having been misled by others, he had been induced to lend the sanction of his much respected name to inflict on his country a wound which would never heal, but which would excite feelings which no conciliatory measures here. after to he introduced, would ever remove.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was truly lamentable to see men like the Members of the present Administration, who had all their lives professed themselves the friends of liberty, bring in a Bill to establish military tribunals upon the models of those of France. If they had no feeling for the dignity and rights of Irishmen, why did they no consider the injury they would inflict on the British Constitution by a measure of this kind? Had they considered what the effects of this measure would be, not upon the victims brought before them, but upon the of faits of the army, who are to compose those tribunals?— (Hear, hear.) Perhaps they were aware that the officers, having become habituated as Judges in Ireland, would be ready if required to act as judges in England. Did the Noble Lord opposite recollect the establishment of military tribunals in England, which once before produced the downfal of the Constitution ? —(Hear, hear, hear.) If the Noble Lord would consider the subject in that light, and if he still could bring his enlightened mind to the conviction and resolution of inflicting on Ireland these military tribunals, he was not indeed the Noble Lord whom he bad always considered him to be.—(Cheers.) He was not the high minded, patriotic, incorruptible-minded individual whom he had always taken him to be—(Hear, hear, hear) —and he could not help expressing a hope that that Noble Lord would reconsider the step he had adopted, and yet abstain not only from injuring his (Dr. B.'s) countrymen, but from dishonouring nis own name. He bad yet to be convinced that the Noble Lord would with 11:s own hand stain his fair character.—(Hear.) The condition of Ireland had been referred to by gentlemen on the other side of the House, and also by a Right Hon. Baronet on this side, as a justification of the measure. He (Dr. B.) would not say that their arguments wete altogether frivolous, but he would say that whatever they were, they had failed to make out the case they proposed—(Hear, hear)—they bad not c invinjed him that the ordinary law tribunals were insufficient for the exigencies of the case.—(Hear, hear.) They had not convinced him that the authorities had made a proper use of those tribunals.—(Hear.) They had not satisfied him that they had sent forth Commissioners in proper time, to the disturbed places, nor had they convinced him that if they had done so, those places would have continued to be disturbed.—(Cheers.) He asserted that it was owing to the Government in Ireland, in not sending down the regular and necessary commissions —(Hear, hear, hear) —that the evils now sought to be remedied had gone on. Would the Noble Lord opposite then say that his (Dr. B.'s) countrymen should be punished for the negligence of Ministers in Ireland ?—(Cheers.) If it be competent for his Majesty's Government to make such laws, why not make them for the whole kingdom? Or, if for a part of the kingdom, why not confine it to the dis turbed parts of that kingdom? Was it not monstrous injustice, that the whole of Ireland should be put under the operation of courtsmartial, and not the whole of the empire ? (Hear, hear.) Can he justify such flagrant injustice and inconsistency ?—(Hear, hear.) He might say that the state of society in Ireland, and the feelings of the peasantry would justify him, but has the Noble Loud (Althorp) looked about hint in England? When he (Dr. Baldwin) came into this country not long ago, and the Reform Bill, the measure of Ministers, was yet before the public,he saw fires,and disturhance,and confusion throughout the country more than could be proved to be existing now in Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) Englishmen at that time would have shuddered at the idea of being coerced by such measures as were preparing for Ireland.—(Loud cheers.) Ireland is called the principal part of the British empire —but his Majesty's Ministers treated it as a conquered province.—(Cheers.) Why send a regular commission of judges to Bristol, or why not send a com mission of judges to Ireland ? Or if it were necessary to send a military commission to Ireland, why not have sent a military commission to Bristol ?—(Cheers.) Again, be would ask, why do not Ministers try the e xperiment of Commission of Judges to Ireland ? The Right Hon , Baronet who now usually sits on the same side of the House with himself (Dr. B.) delivered on Friday a speech Of the most persuasive and brilliant description.—(Cheers.) In that speech he attempted to justify the melancholy calamity that was about to befal Ireland. In this he had failed ; but he (Dr. B.) feared that he had not failed i n entrapping the Noble Lord and his colleagues into a more determined pursuit of their mistimed measure. The Right Hon. Baronet spoke of the superabundant population of Ireland—their want of employment, and the absence of their landowners, and yet he confessed that the present measure was no remedy for these evils. He said, "Carry this measure, my Lord," but did he tell the Noble Lord what would be the conse quence of his carrying the measure ?._(Cheers.) No : triumphantly and treacherously would he assist Minister in effecting that which must ruin their political character, and might end in their disgrace.--( Hear. ) The Right Hon. Baronet opposite, be he ever so clever, be he ever so eloquent—and clever and eloquent he admitted he was—still he never was the friend of liberty, he never advocated the cause of liberty, except when he could not help granting Catholic emancipation. That was the only act of liberality the Right Hon. Baronet had ever been guilty of. He (Dr. Baldwin) had no doubt in his own mind that the progress of liberty in Europe would be steady, consistent, and irresistible, the human mind would become more and more enlightened, and that the principles of freedom would be too deeply rooted to be obliterated by Government. Would the Noble Lord opposite set himself up against those principles of liberty which now pervaded the British empire, and insist in passing so hated a measure as that now before the House ? He had the highest esteem for that Noble Lord, but if he carried that measure, he would establish such a state of things that would be too dreadful to contemplate. The Right Hon. Baronet had spoken of the superabundant population of Ireland, and had deprecated the associations in that country, whose endeavours were exerted to alleviate tl.e distresses of that superabundant population. He asked the Noble Lord if he did not know that the population in agricultural districts according to the laws of nature, always increased beyond the rate that was' neces sary for agricultural purposes. There was always an increase beyond the wants of agriculture. What, then, were they to do with this superabundant population ? They could not be employed in manufactories, nor in foreign commerce. The Noble Lord would put down the associa tions. He asked the Noble Lord whether he had considered what the real objects were of those associa tions in Dublin, in Cork, and in Belfast? The Noble Lord took it for granted that that object was political agitation, and the dismemberment of the empire. He would tell the Noble Lord' what their real objects were. Their real objects were, to ob tain employment fur the superabundant popula tion, to encourage their industry, supply them with subsistence, and make them useful, intelligent, and orderly supporters of his Majesty's throne and the rights of the commuuity at large.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was not ashamed of belonging to one of these Associa tions. He was proud of being one of the Trades' Political Union of Cork, and he attributed the honour of his sitting in that House to the circumstance that he had pleaded, however feebly, the cause of his country amongst that excellent body of men. Were these associa tions, then, to he put down by this Bill ? He knew their objects and their rules. When cholera raged in Cork, and when, having applied to Government for assistance, they were told that none could be given unless abundant security were provided for the repayment of the advance with interest, their only re sort was to associate together, and pledge themselves not to consume any article but those of Cork artisans, which were equ tl in excellence and equal in cheapness with those of any other country in the world.—(Hear.) He would ask the Noble Lords on the opposite side of the House, the descendants of the patriots of England, who had fought, and bled, and died for the freedom of their country, whether they could conscientiously sanction such a Bill as this? He could not believe that they would. He firmly and conscientiously believed, that those Noble Lords would resign their places into the hands of the heads of the Government, sooner than be any party to a measure that would inflict such misery upon Ireland. He might be wrong, but he did not believe that the two Noble Lords opposite would willingly give their sanction to the Bill. The landlords of the poor Irish turned their tenantries beggars upon the world. The conse quence was that they became robbers, and committed the most flagrant of acts. But was it for this that the whole of the country was to be inflicted with such a ma lady ? Was it for this that the liberty of men were to be invaded, and the justice of the country turned upside down ? In England there was a right which was acted upon, the right of a tenant to bold his land ; in Ireland there was no such light, at least it was not acted upon. The poor tenants were placed in the power of agents ; they had no immediate intercourse with the landlord—all their dealings took place through the medium of an agent, who had no feelings in common with them—whose only object _was to make as much money as he could. That was the cause of so many poor people in Ireland being turned out to starve and die in the ditches. Then, as to the necessity of those coercive measures—he would ask, had there been no insurrections among the manufacturing population of England ? Had there been no fire raise's among the agricultural population ? And when such things were passing, had any Government, even the present Go vernment, dared to come down to that House and propose that the people of England should be placed under the tender protection of the military ?--(hear, bear, hear.) Then why should Ireland be treated differently? He would only say that if this Bill were passed, it was what he did not expect to have seen introduced, and enforced by a Government calling itself a liberal one. The British Constitution was confined to Britain, for this Bill, and Bills like it, formed the Constitution of Ireland. —(Heir.) What, however, had been the consequence of the continual acts of co, mien passed with regard to Ireland ? The first Lord of the Treasury stated in another place that the Act of the 12th Geo. 111., embodied all others previ ously passed for the coercion of Ireland ; but, like its pre.. decessors, it failed in producing any effect. Was it to be expected, that the present measure would make the people of Ireland more attached to England ?—(Hear)-- or more loyal or more peaceable, or when the day of trial came, induce her to lend her aid to this country ? That trial might not be so far off as some Hon. Gentlemen supposed.—(Hear, hear, hear.) If the people of France were to rise against the treacherous tyrant who now sat upon the throne of that country, and establish a democracy for its Government, what would be the situation of this country with regard to Ireland? He would not say what he thought might be the ultimate consequences, but this he was cer tain would be the immediate consequence of passing the present measure, viz., the people of Ireland would no longer place any confidence or trust in the Go vernment ;and although they might believe them to be liberal and humane towards the people of England, they would only expect them to be unjust and inhuman towards the people of Ireland. An open enemy was better than a treacherous friend. What did the Hon. Gentleman on their side mean? Was it their pleasure to play over again the battle of Bos. worth field ? Were Stanley and Richard going to take the field again, and Stanley going, as before, to be treacherous to the cause?—(Hear, hear.) Until he (Dr. B.) had seen the seal of' the King put to this Bill, he never would believe that it would pass into a law. Were Ministers to have no eye to this country ? Were they sure that there would be no manufacturing distress again in Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, and many other great towns? Were they to calculate upon continual peace in those towns, and, in the meantime, to cut down the Irish with the bayonet and the sword? He would tell his Ma jesty's Ministers that they did not understand the people of Ireland. They s'emed to consider them a set of mere Irish serfs, feeding upon potatoes, living like slaves, and even worse than the inhabitants of the West India islands. —(Hear, hear.) But if this was the opinion of gentlemen on the other side of the House, it was an exceedingly in accurate judgment. In fact, the Noble Lord knew nothing of the middle class of the people in Ireland. The people were as well educated and as enlightened in many of the large towns in Leland as were the inhabitants of t o w ns of a similar description in this country. They had their Mechanics' Institutes there, they had their sources of in formation, and were determined to maintain their rights and privileges in spite of the Noble Lord, and all his efforts.—(Hear, hear.) As an Irishman, as a senator of the United Kingdom, he was bound to caution Ministers. As a senator, he had taken an oath to his present Majesty, which oath. he hoped, he still should keep. But he would tell the Noble Lord, if he should lessen the allegiance of the people to the King, he would be a traitor to that King . . and his country.—(Cheers.) He (Dr. Baldwin) knew what the people said and thought of this measure, and if it passed, they would consider their allegiance not as a matter of conscience, but as a matter of expediency.— (Loud cheers.) Was it the wish of Ministers to rive the people of Ireland into rebellion, to ruin this country, and, above all, to ruin Ireland ?—(Cheers.) He would ask the Noble Lord if he wished to put the no- bility against the people ? Let him look at the combined Russian, Prussian, and Austrian despots, who were ready to ally themselves upon every occasion, when they had the slightest prospect of success against the freedom of the people. Would the Noble Lord endanger the cause of liberty in Europe ? If that Noble Lord knew the state of the people of Ircland, he would see that the present Bill would make them more dangerous. The Noble Lord might compel the people to pay to the amount of our ) The Irish people stocks in tithe, but would be be able to compel them to werer th e n e t l a t o ri led t s ,ho resolved, vdse landlord euxdbci:emophetitt s utwobh : ne—affit knewt ( wr tt 9 1 i ota hs e sae a v i riirii necessarygelel were resolution, r e . not to cultivate cultivate the harvest, and to bring it to market —in short, fr their own sub sistencewere Theythemunderlegislationtyranny—tLey on potatoes, if this Bill were passed, which de the very ground they cultivated. What, then, prived them of the rights of men, and of British subjects. re thus made to bury they send them all se man for Id to Botany Bay ? Why, to transport o . ne as, and trod years, would cost the country sixty gut'hat rate for the British people consent to p y :esui:eger°6 which the people e 3 r." r$ if il Mitli §te A • f liberty. &A r lowly cabins, breathing the air o , could not e.. a. endeavouring h n a n o f t i,a the t Irish - V they could ?t e o ffe dW c o t le, Ol e : p et terests of England. The British Peal •ncreasen a 0 ay for the h i t t y h , a t t i l carceration of their fellow-subjects, particularly , e / only crime was that of resisting oppressito consider , lure.n-e were, would never vtehreycownseernettotoo s g u e e n h ero a o n s. i to_apr,_ too i upon the Noble Lord and his colleaguesio., ; 101 tot amount of the exports and imports of Ire d put an end to them ; and, when such towns" ,that! representatives of the great manufacturing metire ,t ! land could never give their support to that . f ide 00 would never consent to see the Irish peoPf! ! 11 , ee l place between the countries. The przetrvitasnlteharcrnesfee:f.,.; people they coto w d o b u e l d ma then i Ie t c o ea w s o e r t k o c l poral punishment they might be forced t cultivate.s successell!, soil. Such an experiment might have once u be ,00Im tune. The Noble Lord seemed to think l3r t abia 7: t h :y l ee! . . r d its cloY - - me ; tyranny might have done for a time; I' ' ;II tell the Noble Lord that tyranny had had twwgo whichaul d i tn b e e Y'lat e c sWtr allowance.cun t i 'd i pv‘!: ?II It j;ti s t : I ' enlightened—they began to have a prope: to g oo own dignity, and of what was du _ t h e y d land.—(Cheers.) The Irish were now s b e e i r- gla cr e f - th i men—they were arrived at that point wheu t prod°, under the whip for the benefit of those who e o r e i s ted t r _ ai not work under the whip—when they instrument. In mercy and humanity alone e . ndes trl' i wisdom ; exten ling education and increasing ' .as WI dhe ri , 1 the only sound palicy that could be pursue . e _ OO O , . land. But as of course oppression was quite th motive' o! 1 t o yed tli to r! h all s ro j 1 since it would take away from the Iris be . allegiance towards the Sovereign of this counetryilobie berl . I entreat, in the most supplicating manner, rh exc ite ir : to withdraw this measure, which would OE4 "f 0 vengeance of the Irish, and call down the contemn .Qt English nation. H e wou ld as k whether Minister' ree ts, to collect the interest of the national debt with d ldal li d , and by oppressing his p oor cou ntrymen ? I f the Y r. 0b • so, they would fi n d th emse l ve s sadly in errs II! been said that some of th e I r i s h Members had a d °p el t upon the banks. He could assure the Nobl e L/1 es Irl i that no such advice was necessary. Such 8 ...... ° . e :y . i - a not simply floating in the minds of the Irish looenostai resolved upon it; he knew them, and he was t o be that the result of the passing of this measure o° oo o o rush upon V e banks on their part.—(llea r ' ) „ te , an d ,, b e l ,; then would have again to susp e nd cash PaYm e- f t he et" ' that suspension would de s t ro y tie co nfidence 0 % +od JP try, and oblige th e p eo pl e o f E ng l a nd, Scotland oubi sad land to rise up against the Government. Ifervi,„.ool pen'' more call upon the proposers of the present 10/''obi tbel sure to withdraw it. If they did not, how ° ° oo will ° expect that the prayers offered up by those wh° Tr od ba st ; and lawn sleeves for the King of the Realm e°„ eit ythr ceptable in the sight of Heaven ? But he wetn" it or no prayer could be accep t abl e b e f o re God as long a 9 it accompanied by the cur s e o f th e Irish ; and 0o !vas Ors, offering could be graciously received as long 0 I t He woe' - nected with oppression, exac , ion, and tyranny' „f o e 114 not go further into the details of the question we'll House, and would conclude by thanking rh eln . „ v ir lts 11 dially for the polite attention with which his re w " been listened to.—(H e ar.) threadthreadLord CASTLEREAGH s a id, that with t. h .e ,pig and menaces thrown out by the Hon. itieln ber e at° numerous than he recollected to have been &O; le f t it any political question—he h a d no thi n g to do, ano regent to the members of his Majesty's Government foe 0 8 , them. He would now come to the question b e ro f tr j . House, and he w ou ld con f ess t h at i t was with 8 ,... (n. a d0ar,,, with shame that h e saw suc h measures a bout to P c a s r towards his country. He called it his countrY: h ipki / thought it as mu c h hi s as th e i rs , w h o seemed '9 0 00 ; , person that had h e a r d t h e sp l en did spee ch deliver RAO their especial country.—(Hear, hear.) Eve r y l e d a fe lt ,' evenings ago by the Right Hon. Baronet (S ie w aft Peel) near him, must b e conv i nce d o f t he nene gs '',, lee, measures now proposed, an d t h a t th ere existed Ds; or" any respect for the Constitution in Ireland, si nce ,pd of the most di sma l outrages , mur d ers, an d buryi n g; tr y carried on there. He considered that all the e ° ,.. ..119, ' afflicted his unhappy country sprang from agira ti t C Ol4 i agitation ; no matter whether it was that of tw' re alsr i oia,ugadti t Exchange atztoliooo tn .b o eA r ejn o f sufficiently the Castle. careful—that that it b G a 7 n e et • b o at: many ea s h ue i nroo, n eistuus t hi t e slarf , dteoaet 8 encouraging pecti n g u, e Church instead a 0 d w ii n il i e l, s te l ; I been too much talked of by his . Majesty ' s . 2 . 4" . 10 5 1 : t and he would ask, bow could any man j in Irs'u e b gig: ' petted to pay tithes after the remarks made by he I Hon. Secretary opposite ? Having said tha t — tet lf ,i, I was the cause of the evils of Ireland, he wool° 1 a l ltk t proof of his assertion, that that part of Ireland saaei; was not worked upon by agitators was perfectly t r 0 00 He would say little more upon the question , tit woul d , the House, that it was with the gravest sorrow Thad 7, vote for the measures now proposed by Ministere ; ere Or trusted that they would use those coercive pod til l discretion, and retain them for as short a alla ce .,loOL as possible. He could not, however, help exP r 7 nr es P . surprise, that one of the first results of the Re'w - i should be the adopting of such arbitrary measur eB ;diag .. ; An HON. MEMBER would support the first red se mis the Bill, because he was of opinion that it w° ll.- the peace and tend to the prosperity of Ireland. ..,11 101 „ Major FANCOURT (we believe) would state ;00 had voted fir the address to the Throne. It %W . . l ob e a be could not refuse additional powers to Aliniat' e ' - d sbe°,, they solemnly stated that they would not delna n he t die mand. He thought that they had not satisfactorwv noir propose I. When the Noble land opposite had c°7,, fie' from _expecting that the Noble Lord would ol e- p abe liable to the charge of being inconsistent 80 % - i sst, _had, on a late occasion, claim his co-operation and support, and the suPP ° ,:j be r L against ; t i i et i v d i l yeneee lenient t o ( i t i e at f w t n hhi a i tt eee h r mdm d ne s , ' b e h G a h y a i i n s s o ou tds v u h r u e p se e r o es ir nil p m po w prb e r hi t e y e 9 e ti ;s t e l u is : o : o : ° ' t3: o f 00,1 : enr ol .b o u i sures. The charge against the Hon. and Learneu ' , e t Itr ber for Dublin was unfounded ; for lie had aboWn..,,p i- .I° . s A u li r n es is . tei T •s, h a e wished to support Ministers in their beneficial pr ,I f oe, , wards Ireland, and would oppose them in their r a joy • n ‘ d Vi o w f le th o e f e t v h i e de s n ta c t e ei l n a e id nt b s e i f n o a r d e e t b h y e b il is offu l , : o e o l l i d to show that it was not wanted.—(Hear.) '1! eesr s beg T t th v brldpo'ul ve h e eEi r. unel remarked s'itlsetr:i propose vdanoairro ß s t :AYks.c o aretli. i antesys e l I dstk l j oibmee behavedt ‘ e ol n o hyytt I ibtnifh:el cryin g c am s ' eeearah e l tv: i taNi shown hts p ti w ihrsooo. ea consistent] require d n , mosl, out s l et e i d r a Li e s , g nauo a a 'rra n a r esdu d d : andffi i enho n h t afco g i t i iLwt e ueCe y n t erri h aettiriu e ri w m fin i eer r tc e ecao r disf' : lne' wants eßArelt deprived illaenensfgluv i rd rsrebamero a r ref' n i'r aa d tf:Pb°Pii tt o lEe'v t b bsl:l °li ' :f a rri fi id' 1:. : . f d p e t t o ha r t em in em th b a etrdtehspenieomixta dvie t cehn e siaec , nr nihntdissttihtojyo fe r n s a sNl,a n o ivob n f ebe i right to petition the Legislature_a right which ' rites',' ways been considered as the safeguard of their IL I !: a ot',. He considered that as the most flagitious part of tulefr ~ rageous and unconstitutional Bill. He would tell ` - t sene,., o d e e r a of its warmest advocates. ( Cl f e e 0 . r t: nistsrs, that in bringing forward this measure, they 0 e tu,oa( s whu e nfra l el yf v ttso: s e a: roil s egtramf u.vi übtt)ni slavery elarontacytsoiTtaeosrmiinhl impossible e irssoeistosuohnani the greatest agitators him, who was formerlyah treasure was employ.wb a itnr s e n t c h lout e :swu s i t sda r l eys in sio g nopg e pe s t t otrhs a oei r nsd g g :if c ab e tti n bie & j ore g r :O ct ! , Members of the Government, to Russia. Ile - t he il r e ; on that mission—a result which would drive 0 1 " . ,'" - OP; :l a ; a l NobleLtooEridll whichm infinitelyt h u es Lord' Yt the h s v s l a l cv in :r e :.,l l i ieO ebt i 1 00 le r I I ea s , ll ° . :: condemned the unfortunate Poles. —(Hear, bea r ' , so' lie called on the House to consider, before t.,n,eti Were ' dilated the liberties of Ireland. If the - 1/ ".t i te m Passed, and the dangerous principles whi e " l asig m. volved allowed, they could not know where " be de; stop, or how soon a similar measure might tie ad' mantled to e x t en d over t h e rest o f t h e em pire. ' t hat I rather see 'be country plunged in civil war than d b feh Bill so despotic, nay, tyrannical, should pass ; a ° o' l or that if they went on with measures of such rig s a i d fall ° pression, the cons( quenees of these measures won/- their own heads.—(Cheers.) %. s a lB An HON. MEMBER said, that in tall the sr eeuZ i/ i9 iklr against the adoption of the measure proposed by o f tl/ 8 jesty's Ministers, not one of the outrages, or pre dieted' murders mentioned by Ministers, had been contr liberty —(Hear, hear.) He was as great a friend to th . e. _ . . t y l e , of Ireland as any man, and as a friend to that n.. li d th ° 'd would vote for this Bill, because lie was convince oe e ll was necessary to insure that liberty.—( not mean to deny that Ireland bad grievances to r.'7 e r , of, or that it had been misgoverned ; but that was . s o ps' this Bill. It v." 6 7 if, gument against the adoption of sary to adopt it, in order to give an opportunity:_ies, proving the Government. And if even a strong.. 'Zie, suppress agitation, he t hem' port sure were proposed to efore for port it. Waen the measure came regularly h e.e he would vote for every clause of it. He would _1.0,,„,r, Hear.) _ ,..0 j e 10 any measure which Ministers would bring for ward .,ll l ; je not any treasure—(Loud laug bter)—.he meant to A t ,