The Sun. — London, England, 1854-02-25 00:00:00

THE words ed that d to ro ves the ratified ! e never SHARE MARKETS. (THIS DAY.) BRITISH RAILWAYS. RAILWAY/. Closing Prices yesterday. Business done this day. X Aberdeen 8f Asabg. Nottng. Bost I and Eastn. Junct ' ►ll Belfast & Ballymena dl Binning. Wolverh. & Stour Valley ,l ;8 Birkenhd. Lancsh. & Cheshire Junet dl Do. Chesh. & Birk., £5O and £25 Cons. .iti Do., £2O 10 Blyth &Tyne original' ) .£25 (issd. at .£45) X) Bristol and Exeter X) Caledonian al Chester & Holyhead. ill Cork and Bandon-. dl rk, Black, is Pass. Cornwall Crieff Junction Dublin&BelfastJune Dundee Perth &Aber deen Junstion Do. New....... East Anglian Do., (XlB E Eastern Counties Eastern Union, A Stock .... ....... ..... OlDo., B. Stock 8b Do., New A::•.;..7 -J 10 East Lancashire K) Edinburgh& Glasgow' 5A Edinb. and Peebles /0 - Edin. Prth. &Dundee 1 Forth & Clyde June: - 10 Glasgow &S. Western K) Great Northern Stk. 10 Do., A. Stock K) Do., B. Stock K). Gt. Sth. &West.(lre ) K) Great Western L 2 Irish South-Eastern ill Lancaster & Carlisle L 1 Do., Thirds , 2 Do. New Thirds K) ,Lancash.andYorksh .7t Do., Fifths Lli' D o. , Wst. Riding Un ill Leeds Northern ill Liv.Crsby.&Southpt ill London & Blackwell 8i Loud. Tilb. &Sthend. )0 Loud. Bright & S.Cst. )0 Loud, and N. Weste. L 2 Do. Fifths 1 Do.lo/.5h.,M&8...0 2i Do. Eighths )0 London andS. Weetn i 2 Do., .£5O ... 34 Do., £4O ill Lnndrry& Coleraine ill LndndiTy. & Enniek. )0 Nfanch.Shef.& Linen 41 Do., Man. & Lin. Un )0 Midland , Do. Birmng. & Derby Ii Aidld .G. West. (Ire.) It Do. Half Shares all Newcastle & Carlisle X) Newmarket 5i Do., Bury Extension 7), Nwpt.Aberg. & Hrfd 7i Newry &Enniskillen' 11 Neml Warrenpoint and Rostrevor 1 10 Norfolk . .. 3 Northn.Counties-UL K) North British 6 North Devon, No. 1 A t 0., No. 2 ill Do., A Deferred 8 0.,. B Guaranteed all orth London 4 o. New .elO ! is N.&S.Wstrn.,Hamp stead, and City Jn 1 .7i North Staffordshire ; 11 North Western .0 N. &S. Westrn . Juno 1 Nuneaton, Hinckley, and Leicester K) Oxford, Worcester, &, Wolverhampton 2s Portsmouth .. K 1 Scottish Central 1 1() Scottishllidland X) Shrewsbury &Birmg )0 Do. L. &N. Western. Guaranteed St Gb k.: . 0 Shrewsby. & Herefd '1 Shrewaby. & Chester (N. W. Min i.. ...... . Do. Halves,i •. so Do. Oswestry Shropshire Union Do. A, B, C,& D ,fully, paid up at per cent South Devon nth Eastern South Wales S. Yrksh. dr Ray. Dun • 5 Do 2s itaines, Wok &Wok 11 Stockton & Darling. 'iteckton & Hartlepl 10 faff Vale 8 Do. £lO shares. Do. Pref., No. 0 names Haven-Dock and Railway 7 Vale of Neath Waterfd, & Kilkenny Waterford&Limerick West Cornwall West End of London St. ii 10 St. li 25 ; 20 V • 20 al . ISO al 20 1. ••• and Crystal Palace 20 all West Loudon 10 51s. Wimbledn &Croydon St. 100 York Newctl.&Berw. 25 20 Do. Extensions 25 13r, Do. G.N,E. Purchase St. 100 York &N. Midland 20 - 21 4i - 51 8 - 9 n - 9 17 19 Gi 524(cl 95 -- 97 551 -- 551 151 -- 141 13 -- 1341 in = i 71 - 8.1 4 = 'it 131 -13 i 65 - 67 GO - 64 22 -- 23 ••• • • • 83t L 29 - 131 99 -101 83 - 836 92 -- 95 124 —134 p 12 13 p 67i 68 6 -- 64ci 136 - 14 _Bi 8f par -- P 96 -- 97 105 - 1054 # P g d 81, -- 83 9 -- 8 d 404 -94 d 22a -23 i 36 -- 38 55 57 d par 5 21 3 6 8 47 .—= 50 31..- 33 ~. 34 $ - 10 14 - -55 6 - spa 8 - 84 ~. - ... 34 - 35 89 91 54 d 56 55 - 60 55 60 3 2d 15 17 11 13 31 —31 d 15 17 624 —63 i 346 —35 q 2 4 par' 4 5 30 - 32 -... roe 24 15f • 15i s#-- 5i - 26 6 - 7 6 - 7 70 71 if -7 3 V, 49i -- 503 150 in 31 22 I I 25 St. li St. li 50 50 20 20 10 ao 25 25 25 18 20 St. St. 11 25 St. 1 1 St. II 10 St. 1.1 10, St..lli St. LI SL. 11 St. LI St. 11 12 : 50 I 16f 164 St. 1( 19 / 14 50 I 20 11 1 10 St. II St. 11 Rt. 101 50 St. 10; 16 11 16 1 50 1 10 10 )ii 20 l' 20 al -10 li 10 : '• St. 11 St. 11 St. 11 lo I ii 264 137 20 20 BO 1 St. 11 50 1 20 20 20 25 20 16 20 10 20 40 10 20 20 20 101 20 20 FOREIGN. 10 7 A.ntwerp&Rotterchm 3i 3d . 5 3 Belgian Eastn. June. 1— li 20 8 Beziers to Graissessae 44 —30 d 20 2s. Bombay, Baroda, and Central India,Scrlr par 4 p Pin 1 ' ... . . Central of Italy '2O all Charleroi & Erquelin ,.. ... 174 all Demerara 20 14 Dijon and Besango 1.. •. . -- 20 8 Dutch Rhenish .. . 31 -- -- 2ld 20 all East Indian . 2f 2 p 221 20 2 Do. Extension — 5 all Gt. Indian Penius 1 1 p 20 10 Gd. Junct. of France . , • . 25 74 Grd.Trunkof Canada . 54 --. iici 100 30 Do. Debentures • -- ... 100 all Do. do - . 20 8 Gt. Central of Francc •21-- 21 d 201 all Gt. Western of Canada • Shares . . ... Do. Bonds (let is.)'s7 ... --- ... 204 154 Hamilton & Toronto i --- 1 p 100 all Do. 6 per cent. ... 20 5 Lake Coast. & Basle .., ... 5 all Lucca & Pistoj a 5 p.c. . prof .. di. 20 15 Luxembourg 6.1 7 10 10 Do. (Railway) • 44 4 5 2 Do. Pref . 1 -- 1 5 3 Do. (Canal) 1 I 10 5 Do. 6p. ct. prof 1 4 _2O 8 Lyons and Geneva ••• ... ... 20 12 Lyons & Mediterrtn. .':••• 2 .— ... 20 10 Madras • i'd par 101 10 334 334 Maria Antonia 10 all Do. do. New 20 2 Melbourne Dk. & Ry. ... ... 20 all Namur & Liege (with interest) ' 71 7i 20 all Do. (ex interest) - ... 16 all Northern of Frame 291 291 29.1 Do. 20/. 3 p. c Bds 20 all (fmy.B.& Aran. Shs.) ... , • 10 all NorwegianTrunkPre 7,1, 8 . • 20 10 Paris and Lyons -- • :In -1.21 p 44) a ll Ditto Bonds - 10 all Paris and Orleans :. ii 44 . 21) all Paris and R0uen...... 34 —36 id 20 all Paris and Strasbourg 281 281 20 4 ParieCaen & Cherbrg. . . —pm 101 10 f Quebec & Richmond . 3 1 d 20 all Rouen a ndHavre „ 1 ... 20 9 Royal Danish /.71 par 5 2 BoyalSwedish — d 20 all Sambre and Meuse 7l 84 ... 6 Do. 54 p. cent. Pref ... ... 20 6 Southern.of France ••• —Pm 20 6 St. Andrew's and • Quebec (A) . ... 8i all West FlanderS •••••_•• • 3 1 1 10 all Do. 54 per c. Pref, ... 20 10 Western of France , 21 -- 2t 10 5 West. of. Switzerland ••• u 20 2 Wiesbaden • 4 • d 20 Zealan d d MISCELLANEOUS •••••••.•••!....... 5 all Aubin Coal and Iron ... .•• 25 174 Australian Agricult. 41 42 20 14 A.UStralsn.Pcific.Mail ... ... 10 8 Australn. Royal Mail ... ... 10 24 Berlin Water Works, ... , ... 60 384 Brit. American Land 73 75 6 1 Brit. & Coln. Smeltg. and Reduction Co.. ... ... 100 321 Canada 75 80 5 5 Crystal Palace l/ —llp 61 1 5 4 Do. New ll —ll 4 2 Crystal Pal. of France ... p 20 3 Eastern Steam __ ... 25 20 ElectritTelegraph(A) 17 18xd x d 26 all Do. (B) 1 1 Electric T-eleg. of Ir. ... ... 15 14 Gen. Steam Navigat. ... ... 20 18 General Screw,Steate. ... ... 20 74 Kish Beetroot Sugar ... _ ... 20 10 '.Magdalena St. Navig.' ... ... 1 all Nat. Pat. Steam Fuel , .. 10 3 Netherlands Land 3 — 2 • d 2 1 N. S. W. Coal & Inter. Steam NaTigat. Co. ... —'. 1 all N. B. Australasian... • par— 1 p 1 1 4 Do. New 20 10 Nrth.ofEnropeSteam ••• -- ... 5 all Peel Rr. Ld. & Mina id par 41 50 all Peninsular& Oriental ••• ••• 50 30 Do. Do. ... ... 351 2 all Portland Iron Co i -- it 100 60 Royal Mail Steam , . . ••:. ~ 1 all Scot. Austral. Invest l4 13 4 3 I 25 25 South Austral• Land 38 ? 9 1 all Submar. Telegraph 3 P I all Do. Registered._ ar t 100 284 Van Dicmou'l land L -.! 14 ~.., -~, PRE- stymie- LON1)01I, -SA-TrIMAY EV-MIT-NG, rirsitrAwr 23 1 ago. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS-(iESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. . . The Bishop of LLANDAFF presented a petition from Glamorganshire in favour of the establishment of reforma tory schools. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from a place in Staffordshire praying for the institution of an university in Wales. Austria and Prussia. Those two powers, grateful for the deference we have shown to their opinions, and as fully alive as we are to the aggressive and mischievous policy of Russia, are now with us. It is only this day that 17 have heard that 25,000 fresh troops have been ordered by Austria to the frontiers of its dominions. Then, we shall have pre pared a fleet in the Downs more powerful than has ever left the shores of England. The French Government are in precisely the same state of preparation. All this is a sign of a conviction that war is inevitable. Every effort has been exhausted whereby the evil might be averted. We have brought to bear against Russia an amount of moral and material power which no nation in Europe has ever done before. This, my lords, is the result of six months' forbearance and moderation. The facts are now before the people of England, who in their judgments are always just and reasonable, and to their judgment and sense of justice we appeal. Accusations are brought against us of credulity and connivance, to the dishonouring of England, but there is no echo of those accusations from the people of this country. But I now come to that part of my noble friend's speech in which he says that we are not yet in a state of war, because that declaration of war which is usually made by Government has not yet been made. My noble friend appears to labour under a feverish state of anxiety on this point, and to be apprehensive that deferring a declaration of war is an indication on the part of the Government to remain at peace. (Hear.) Now, I can relieve him to a certain extent on that subject, because, although I am just as desirous for peace as ever, and would be just as happy as ever if that peace were attainable upon just and honest g rounds, yet I must say that I see no prospect of a just and honourable peace with Russia, depending as it does upon the Emperor of that em pire, who might, with honour to himself, have relieved Europe from the state of suspense and anxiety in which it has been placed, and have saved it from all the horrors and cruelties of war with which it is threatened. But he has rejected all overtures of a pacific nature, and has added to his original unreasonable demands requisitions that can not for a moment be entertained; requisitions showing that his policy is incompatible with any termsof peace, and holding out, indeed, a_ challenge to the whole of Europe. My noble friend need not be under any apprehension that that challenge will not be taken up ; but your lord ships must be well aware that we are not acting alone It is not a quarrel between England and Russia alone. We are acting with allies and for allies, and it would be of the utmost importance, if we were not to take all the precau tions which the circumstances of the case render necessary, or if we were to be induced by any sneer or reproach to declare war, or to do anything which we did not consider the actual state of things to require. (Hear, hear.) Sure I am that your lordships will not require any statement to be made by the Government which would be prejudicial to the country ; and your lordships will fully understand that Prussia and Austria have entitled themselves to our con fidence, and that it is our duty to a certain extent to con sult their wishes, and that it is our interest to know what is their policy. We are also bound to consult, not only the wishes, but the dignity of the Sultan of Turkey, by in forming him of the measures which we are about to take in order to guard the independence and integrity of his em pire. We consequently have proposed to the Sultan a con vention, and until his assent has been given to it, it would neither be to consult his dignity nor his independence if we were to declare war. Therefore my noble friend need not be under any alarm as to the declaration of war not havingbeen yet announced to the two Houses of Parliament, because he must know that no time has been lost and no in jury has been inflicted by the delay. In the meantime our preparations have been carried on, and the fleets and armies of England and of France will be in that state of complete. ness calculated to carry out any war into which this coun try may be embarked. My noble friend has talked much about what the object of the war should be. He has advised your lordships to confine yourselves to the conside ration of what the object of the war should be. Now, I think your lordships will consider it to bo a most impru dent course—nay, an impossible course, to engage your selves in the consideration of what is to be the result of a war which has not yet been commenced. There are many things which must depend upon the contingencies and upon the proverbial uncertainties of war. There may be much that is just and desirable to be attained, but which may be utterly impracticable. It may be just and desi rable that none of the treaties now existing should be re newed. By-the-by, there has prevailed a great misappre hension about these treaties. I will take the treaty of Kainardji. What is it that the Emperor of Russia quarrels about in respect to that treaty ? He says that it does not give him what he wants, and that it is ineffectual for its purpose. It is only the 7th article on which ho rests his claim, and what does he say? He says that the Sultan promises by that article to protect the Christian religion and all its churches throughout the Ottoman empire. I think that it is a very proper pledge for a Mahomedan Power to give to a Christian Power, but it extends no fur ther. That is marked in the treaty. The only right of intervention possessed by Russia on behalf of the Greek church was with respect to a Greek church which was at that time being built in Constantinople. That, there fore, proves that the Emperor of Russia has no claims beyond what are equally applicable to all other Christian Powers. So much with regard to the treaty of Kainardji. I may say the same with regard to the treaty of Balta Liman in respect to the provinces. The Emperor of Russia is not in possession of the Danubian Principalities by virtue of that treaty, but in violation of the treaty. He is there by right, or rather by the abuse of the right, of vicinage. It may be desirable or just to take from Russia and restore to other countries different portions of territory which in various ways she has taken from those countries. It may be very just and desirable to make Russia pay the cost of the war ; but it is impossible that we can take any deci sion on any of these subjects without knowing in what manner, with what skill, or with what success the war ' shall be conducted, and what will be the circumstances of the Emperor of Russia at the time of the conclusion of the war. Mr. Pitt's predilections for the French Royal family —the Bourbons—wasvery strong; and nobody desired more than he did, as the result of the war, that they should be restored to the throne of their ancestors; and yet Mr Pitt, notwithstanding he was constantly pressed to do so, never would say that the restoration of the Bourbons was the object of the war, or the ground on which peace was to be concluded. (Hear.) In the same way your lordships cannot come to any resolution as to how the peace should be made durable, or in what manner Turkey should become a por tion of the great European family, so as to tend to make that peace durable. For my own part, I think wo are on the threshold of very momentous and important events, and it would ill become the gravity of the circumstances to adopt any resolution such as that suggested by the uolslo lord. (Hear.) We are approaching, or we are already em barked in, that great question which has been long fore seen, and has been long postponed by all the able and clear sighted statesmen of Europe, on account of the great em barrassments and the political and commercial dislocation which it would produce. (Hear.) But a we are forced into it, not by our own consent, I say unhesitatingly it ought to be settled once for all. (Cheers.) I again repeat that it is impossible for us at this moment to tell what the result may be • but I can assure your lordships that it is the purpose of every man who, directly or indirectly, will take part in this war, and the purpose of her Majesty's Government, so far as the course of events will permit, to do that which is necessary for the future security and tran quillity of Europe—namely, to check the aggressive and ambitious power of Russia ; to maintain the integrity of the Ottoman empire; and to take solid guarantees in order that Europe may not again be deprived of the great bless ings of peace. (Cheers.) But neither this country nor other Christian Powers would properly fulfil the great duties now devolving on them, nor consult the interests of the Sultan himself, if they did not take this opportunity to se cure equal rights and equal justice to the Christian popu lation of Turkey, and to pave the way for that progress and prosperity which Christian civilisation will effect in that empire. (Loud cheers.) The Earl of MORNINGTON was understood to blame the Government for having, at one stage of the transactions placed too great confidence in the assurances of Russia, and thought that, in the face of certain notorious facts, they ought to have required from that Power more distinct and positive explanations. It was necessary, in his opi nion, in order to maintain the just balance of power in Europe, to deprive Russia of that power which she exer cised, under the pretext of religious treaties, against the independence of the Sultan. He had a great respect for the Turkish character, and very little for the position of the Greek and Christian population generally in the Turk ish dominions; but the way to improve that population and to render them more moral was to let them see that all Christian nations collectively in Europe were ready, should they bo oppressed by the Thrks, to interest themselves in their behalf for the sake of Christianity, but not for the purpose of setting one sect against another. Lord LYTTELTON entered into a lengthened review of the early circumstances of the case, with the view of show ing that, in the first instance, Russia was not so much in the wrong as she was generally thought to be; but she afterwards put herself in the wrong, and he could not ap prove of the claims she now put forth. War, however, was now inevitable ; it must be prosecuted vigorously, and he rejoiced to find that the expense of it would be paid year after year, without running the country into debt. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE would not trespass long upon their lordships' time, but he rose to express the satisfaction with which he bad listened to the able and eloquent speech of the noble lord the Secretary for Foreign Affairs. However much he might differ from the noble lord with regard to the origin of - the dispute and the man ner in which the negotiations had been conducted, he re ceived with the utmost satisfaction the assurances that her Majesty's Government were alive to the necessity of prosecuting the war in a vigorous manner. He wished to call the attention of their lordships to the fact, that there never was a time when this country had sent out an armed expedition without some communication or message from the Crown to Parliament ; but on the present occasion no such message or no such communication had been made, although, in his opinion, it might have been done without conveying one-fourth part of the information which had been given in the speech of the noble lord. The case of Mr. Pitt had been referred to as a precedent ; but the truth was that Mr. Pitt never wont to war without a com munication being mad to Parliament ; and in 1803 Mr. Addington came down to Parliament, and not only made a communication to it, but framed an address by which the sense of the house could be taken as to the expediency of going to war. The address which was moved in the year 1803 might be adopted almost verbatim, at the present crisis, by merely changing the word " France" to " Russia." That address expressed a determination to resist the spirit of encroachment, of ambition and aggression which then actuated the Government of France. He would not on the present occasion again revert to blue books, but he must say that nothing had been advanced in the discussions which had taken place which proved that this war might not have been prevented. In the case of the political re fugees a firm and decided attitude had obtained a beneficial result, but he could not help remembering that, in a debate which took place in their lordships' house in the year 1850 on the subject of the political refugees, the noble lord now at the head of the Government sneered at the appearance of the British fleet in the Lovarit. It was very true that on that occasion the fleets did not appear till the matter was settled. The present case was similar to that ; and there would never have been any need for the fleets to ap proach the coast on the present occasion, if it had not been clearly understood that the Governments of England and France would have acted together to repel the aggression of Russia. lie had heard with pleasure the speech of his noble friend, and he hoped that it would do much to coun teract the bad effect which it was impossible to conceal from themselves had been occasioned by the extraordinary position of the combined fleets. They heard they were in the Bosphorus, and what were they waiting for? Why, for explanations of their instructions. He had no right to ask what those instructions had been, or what instructions were to be given to them ' • but he must say that it was un fortunate th a t the admirals had been instructed to put forth a threat which they could not execute, so that it turned out to be nothing but a boastful menace. They sent—and nobly was it done—Captain Drummond in a steamer to Se bastopol to say that the Russian fleet would not be allowed to assail the Turkish coas t , or to endanger the safety of the Turkish fleet. Had they carried out this threat ? There might have been professional reasons for the course that was taken, but he must say that it was unfortunate to have made a threat, and that—so susceptible as the nations of the Dolt Aro--they should 400 tho combined soots rutin and the Russian fleet come out and bonibard the port which the Turks held. He trusted the speech of his noble friend would go forth and counteract the effect of this. Every moment lost was of great importance, for he considered that decided action on the part of the fleets would have produced a greater effect than the landing of 20,000 men on the coast. Earl GRANVILLE said that no apology was necessary on the part of the noble lord for having again entered into the present question, for the Secretary of State, some nights ago, expressed that it was the desire of her Majesty's Government that the discussion on this subject should be of the most ample kind. He thought his noble friend had had this wish gratified, as it had been shown that the more the "the blue books were pottered over," and the question discussed, the stronger and more general had the opinion become of the wisdom, sagacity, and ability with which his noble friend had conducted these difficult nego tiations. (Cheers.) The question had resolved itself into these two accusations against the Government—that they had been too inclined to go into war, and adopt reasons for war which were no reasons for such a line of policy. He would not argue now as to whether this was right or wrong, but, whichever it might be, it found no response either in this or the other house. As to the second accu sation, it was the very identical attack which every Oppo sition in every country of Europe concerned in this ques tion had made on their Governments—that they bad shown weakness and vascillation. Every post confirmed the un popularity of Count Nesselrode for the course he had pur sued towards England and France. The same accusations were made against the Government of France as against that of England; so that they had the Oppositions bring ing against two Governments, which, he believed, had iu an unexampled manner acted together in perfect confidence for a disinterested object, the same accusation—some assert ing that they had been tee - eager to enter into war, and others that they were too much inclined for peace, weak and vascillating—lines of policy so opposite that they could be mathematically shown to be impossible. The noble earl, after saying that he did not consider the remarks made by the Marquis of Clanricarde, as to the Govern ment having made no communication of their intentions, justified by the facts of the case, regretted the charge that the noble marquis had made reflecting on the character of the navy employed in the Bosphorus, and felt that it was one which, on reflection, the noble marquis would feel that he was not justified in making. There was no refusal on their part to do services required. There was no want of spirit on their part, and they were prepared to do all that might be demanded of them. (Hear, from the Marquis of Clanricarde.) They had deemed it advisable, and all professional men in this country agreed - with them, that it would be better to take possession of- the Black Sea by sending steamers from place to place, than by exposing men-of-war to that which would, to use the expression of one on board the fleet, place them exactly where the Emperor of Russia would wish them to be for the next two months. With reference to the present motion, the noble earl said that it was either a vote of want of confidence in the Government which, if it were he was sure the house would unanimously reject, or it was a vote of confidence which the Government did not want. He considered the course pursued remarkable ; there might have been a rea son for it if a vote of want of confidence had been carried or nearly so, but the contrary was the case, for neither in this nor in the other house had any proposition been made which conveyed a real censure of the Government. If the noble lord had intended his motion in a favourable sense, he (Earl Granville) was sure it would not produce such an effect either in this country or throughout the whole of Europe. The noble lord had talked of the discrepancy of language, and the contrasts afforded by the two houses, because, he said, in this strong opinions prevailed on peace and war, while in the other patriotic appeals were being made to carry on the war with spirit. He, as a very humble member of the Government, protested against such being the case. He felt; no enthusiasm about the coming war, and ho was sure that there was no peer in that house who would State . - that war was not a frightful calamity, pregnant with evil and destructive of much ' good. But was it meant to bo asserted that when war began they were not to appeal to the country to carry it on with becoming spirit and energy? The noble lord had quoted Pozzo di Borgo. He had also read the paper re ferred to, and, speaking from recollection, would say that it proved the wisdom and policy pursued by the English Government. He had also read another despatch in which Pozzo di Borgo gave the reasons why England could not go to war on the Eastern question. He said that England would never succeed in combining with the other European Powers, that her internal state was such as not to admit of it; her trade and commerce were in a despair ing condition, that a Roman Catholic insurrection was about to break out in Ireland ; and that her people were clamouring for the repeal of the corn laws ' which the landlords and farmers would not grant. But what was the state of England now? Owing to a course of legisla tion approved by the noble marquis, but he believed not by the noble mover of the resolution, the result had been one of the greatest prosperity both to the trade and com merce of this country. The revenue, instead of declining quarter after quarter, had increased, and in last quarter had amounted to 3,000,000/. With respect to the Irish, instead of breaking out into insurrection, they were re ceiving the most gratifying accounts of their rushing to join the British standard in a manner highly creditable to them. He felt, moreover, as had been said by the noble earl (of Aberdeen), that for the sake of promoting peace, not only in this country, but mother parts of the world, the whole force of the country should be put forth, and he for one would not have the slightest doubt of success. A. great deal of discussion had taken place as to whether science had made as great progress in its application to warlike instru . - ments as it had in the peaceful arts—he would not attempt to decide thisnow—but it was very clear that all those in ventions which hadbeen so useful in the peaceful artswould be brought to bear in a state of war. He could not believe, while this country possessed within itself so vast a quan tity of the raw material which supplied the moving power of steam, and that, having succeeded in applying it to na vigation, locomotion, and those manufactures by which everything was made, from a pin to the most dangerous implement of war, they would fail to avail themselves of it In a time of war. All that' the - Oa - venni - era, required was to have given to them that confidence which was declared on a previous evening to be placed in them. Their re sponsibility would be great, but they would not shrink from it, and he could answer for the noble earl, that, sup ported by his colleagues in prosecuting war, or in endeavour ing to procure peace, he would do so on the basis laid down by that illustrious ntan Canning, and by Sir James Mackin tosh—upon the principles of respect for the faith of trea ties, respect for the faith of nations, respect for the) balance of power, and, though last, not least, for the honour and interest of this country. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE explained that he had not thrown out the slightest insinuation as to the character of the navy, but merely stated that the fleets were waiting in the Bosphorus for explanations of their instructions. Earl FITZWILLIAM assured his noble friend that he was not ono who blamed the Government for their endea vours to procure peace, but rather because their endeavours to obtain it had, judging from the result, been unsncessful and misdirected. Without entering into any examination of the blue-books, he would remind their lordships that some sort of insinuation had been now and then thrown out, either in that or the other House of Parliament, that at the com mencement, when the Russian ambassador appeared at Constantinople there was not quite a sufficient degree of prudence exercised by the gentleman who filled the office of Charge d'Affaires of this country at Constan tinople. Prince Menschikoff arrived at Constantinople about tho 7th of March. In consequence of his arri val, and, at the instance of the Grand Vizier, Colonel Rose sent to the fleets to go to Vourla Bay. The re sult of that being known at the Russian Legation pro duced a total change in the character and conduct of Prince Menschikoff, who before that had behaved in a most in sulting manner to the Porte ; but the change on the part of the Russian Legation was so marked as to produce an impression upon some of the Ministers of the Sultan that it was not their intention to act in any other than a friendly manner. What happened, however, when it become known that the order to the fleet had been countermanded? T h en came back the insulting tone, the menace, and the frown. The charge to which he thought the Government was ob noxious was, that they had failed in energy, not at the termination but at the commencement of the negotiations. With respect to the particular motion before the house, he confessed that he entertained to a certain degree the objec tion which had been offered to it by th e no bl e l or d the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and upon that ac count he proposed to move an amendment to the latter part of the resolution. He agreed wit t h e G overnment that it would not be expedient to point in detail to the particulars at which they might think it desirable to arrive ; but he did not admit that they should conceal from Parliament what were the objects which they pro posed to themselves in allowing the country to be drawn into a war. He wanted to know what we were going to war for, and he wished to warn the Government against their suffering to be infused into the minds of foreign nations suspicions of what the objects of England were. He was far more afraid of the wiles of Russia than of her power, and he wished it to be stated as the opinion of one indivi dual member of their lordships' house what the object ought to be for which we had gone to war. The common law of Europe declared that no State should be allowed to encroach upon the territories of a neighbour. It was that common law which protected the weak from the strong, it : was that common law which had been inv a ded by the Emperor of Russia, and it was that invasion of the com mon law of Europe which he thought it d es i ra bl e th a t that house should mark with its reprobation. (H ear , h ear .) When they were about to engage in war, th e y s h ou ld de clare what was the cause which justified th a t war, an d h o 7nias follows should prop ose t o substitute for the end of th e reso l u ti on words in which it would be impossible to suggest e v en the trace of any s e lfish motive upon the part of En g l an d. Th e a in , e , n ri l h in a e t n i t t which hetherefore,prciohse opinion of th e h ouse t h at t h e e time has arrived when immediate and effectual steps ought to be taken to vindicate the public law of Europe by repelling the unprovoked aggression of Russia upon the territory of the Sultan, and to obtain a durable and secure peace." The duty of England was a groat one. He hoped that, single-handed, England could contend with all the nations of the earth. Her navy ought to be able to cope with all the navies of the world, and, combined with F rance , she ought to be able to crush them all. But when he saw that the other Powers were combined with England, and were' acting with her with a cordiality which, perhaps, was not to have been expected, he could entertain no doubt about the conclusion of the war. It must be conduaea, — heWever, upon a great scale; they must make uo little war; they must task the energies of this country to the utmost. It was the duty of the Go vernment to make the people understand what was the character and what might be the duration of the war, and to teach them that they must not repine at the sacrifice of pleasure or of life, but that the greater the early sacrifice the more sure would be the speedy and successful termina tion to the war." (Hear, hear.) Lord BE A.UMONT was quite satisfied with the result of his motion, for it had elicited a very different speech from his noble friend the Secretary for Foreign Affairs from those which he had heard lately in that house. The object which he had proposed to himself by his resolution had thus been attained, and ho saw uo necessity for pres sing' it upon the house. With the permission of their lordships. therefore, he begged to withdraw his motion. Earl FITZWILLIA.M objected to the withdrawal of the motion, as he wished his amendment to be put. The Earl ELLENBORO[JGH said, the motion could not bo withdrawn if any one of their lordships objected to the withdrawal. _ _ The Earl of CLARENDON said, the sense of the house must then be taken on the original resolution. The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said that if the motion were put for the purpose of enabling the noble earl to move his amendment in order that the amendment might be ne gatived, the result that would be arrived at would be most undesirable, for the house would then almost unanimously declare that its object was not to have a durable peace. Earl GREY auggeoted that the noble earl should consent to the withdrawal of the motion, for he could not under stand why the noble earl should wish his amendment to be placed on the journals as having been moved, and then not persevered in. Etrl FITZWILLIAM consented to adopt this sugges tion. The original motion was accordingly withdrawn by Lord BEAUMONT, and their lordships then ad journed at 25 minutes to 10 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS-(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair shortly before four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were road a second time and ordered to be committed :—Australian Royal Mail Steam Naviga tion Company; Horsmonden and Marden Roads ; Llynvi Valley Railway ; York, Newcastle, and Berwick, York and North Midland and Leeds Northern Railway Com panies Amalgamation. - At the same time he regretted the hon. member for bungar von (Mr. Maguire) had brought forward the subject :st atime when the house was anxious to go into supply, and also with out having given due notice of it. When the returns moved for by the hon. member for Londonderry were before the house, they could then more satisfactorily enter upon the subject, and he should be most anxious to give it his best attention. (Hear, hear.) Lord CLAUDE HAMILTON said the right hon. gen tleman (Mr. Baines) must be well aware that an indepen dent member had very few opportunities of bringing forward such a subject, and that the honour able member for Dimgarvon had no other resource left him to bring on the question as he had. He (Lord C. Hamilton) knew of his own knowledge, that in one parish alone, of Dublin, in one year, no less than 650 paupers were sent over from England. (H ear, h ear. ) He maintained that when cases of this kind occur, the house could not be squeamish as to what was the " best time" for bringing it on. (Hear, hear.) The subject then dropped. WA WITH RUSIA. Sir J '. WALSH rose ß for the purpose of calling the atten tion of the house to the inadequacy of the military esta blishments of the country to meet the exigencies of the war into which we were about to enter. He regretted being obliged to oppose the motion for going into committee of supply, but he feared the Government had scarcely taken into consideration the exigencies of the service for which they were now called upon to provide funds. Considering the magnitude of the subject and the ability of the speeches a certain degree of languor appeared to pervade the debate on the Eastern question, as if they had been discussing a fail accompli. The conduct of the Government had been passed over, and all seemed to join in a consideration of what should be their future tone of conduct. Although even the hon. member for the West Riding disapproved of the war, and thought we might have taken a different course, yet he found it difficult to say—seeing that they had pledged themselves by a treaty with Turkey to support her -that they were not bound in honour to go through with the struggle in which they were engaged, and try, if pos sible, to bring it to a fortunate termination. They ought, he thought, to endeavour in the first instance to measure the proportions of the contest in which they were about to enter, and to estimate the means they were about to em ploy to insure success. Let them not underrate the im portance of the contest. He had heard it said by some hon. gentlemen that the power of Russia was exaggerated —that her army existed only on paper—that her misman aged commissariat annihilated her power in the field — that corruption demoralised her in every rank of society, and that she was a sort of ideal adversary. That waEl not the opinion of the Emperor Napoleon when he was in the zenith of his power—he said that Russia was one of the first order of powers in Europe, and the only coun try whose people by being converted into soldiers were raised up in the social scale. What the seas surround ing England were to her the steppes and vast plains of Russia, her ice-bound coasts and her rigorous climate, were to her.. „(Hear hear.) As regarded her interior,, Russia was perfectly safe from foreign invasion. The greatest empire in the world was shipwrecked and dis organised in a vain attempt to cope with her. The war in which they were about to embark was likely to be of the most embarrassing character, and would change the politi cal complexion of the whole of Europe, in consequence of the war which had supervened upon the original one. In surrections had taken place among the Greek subjects of the Ottoman Porte, and what direction or what extent that insurrection might be carried to was involved in obscurity. But not only was the Greek population of Turkey in Europe engaged in this insurrection, but a considerable portion of the Christian population of Syria were also in movement. These people had been often defeated and put down, but they were turbulent, warlike, and capable of occasioning great additional embarrassment. The natu ral tendency of these unhappy wars was to extend, and it was utterly impossible to measure their extent or the direction that in a short time they might take. The policy of England for the last 15 or 20 years had been based upon the assumption that war would never again exist in the world, but that it would become tranquil lised by the enlightenment and progress of the age. Even Mr. Sturge must admit that all those ideas must be swept away. It was likely that for some time to come war would be the normal condition of Europe. The moment a Euro pean war took place England must be the first to engage in it. They were placed in an important position, and ought not to be taken by surprise. It was, in his opinion, a matter of necessity that England should not only be a great naval, but a great military power, and she had every re quisite for becoming both. (Hear, hear.) Napoleon had said, " With your 40,000 troops, you will never become a great continental power." But why was that? Had they not a population of upwards of 27,000,000, and all the requisites for organising a large military foree ? It appeared to him that they might become a great military power, with a smaller number of troops, comparatively, than any other nation on the face of the globe. They ought to be able to transfer a military force wherever our flag waved, and wherever a landing could be effected they would form a base for military operations. The army of Great Britain was not larger than that of Belgium. Its strength was not greater than that of a proper peace establishment for this country. In 1847-8 the num ber of men was 108,000 ; iu 1848-9, 113,000; and the number now to be voted was only the same ; yet, in 1848-9, we were at peace, and now we were entering upon war. In. 1852 the Duke of Wellington uttered these warning words :—" You have ,never, my lords, had more than enough of men in your army during the last 10 years than would suffice to relieve the sentries on duty at their stations. Such has been your peace establishment for the last ten years, during which you have been carrying on war in all parts of the globe with a peace establishment hardly sufficient to relieve your' sentries. And after ser vices abroad of 25 or 20 years —never less that 10—your soldiers have had to serve at home five years. We have never, in fact, ny lords, had a proper peace establishment —that is the real truth !" Mr. ALCOCK contended that the command of the Black Sea would be decisive of the relations between this coun try, Russia, and Turkey. If once England should have the ascendancy in the Euxine, there would be little diffi culty in compelling Russia to come to terms. It was much to be regretted that the fleets of France and England had not entered the Black Sea immediately after the slaughter at Sinope. Sir DE LACY EVANS impressed upon the Govern ment the necessity of diminishing the force of 47,000 of all arnit note in the colonies, as involving an expenditure and dissemination of the military strength of the country, especially inopportune at a moment of impending war. Mr. FRENCH thought the power. of Russia was greatly overrated. She would never be foimd so formidable in the field as she made herself to appear on paper. He feared the pliability of the Earl of Aberdeen unfitted him to con duct the affairs of the country in such a crisis, and said that the whole country should hail with joy the restora tion of Lord Palmerston to the Foreign-office in a Govern ment of which Lord John Russell should also be a member. Mr. 1:1 - A DWELL could not agree with Mr. French that Government should have taken a bolder course. They ought, as they had done, to have exhausted every chance of preserving peace before plunging the country into war. Lord J. RUSSELL intimated that, by delaying the house from going into supply, hon. members were causing additional delay in the preparations for more energetic measures. The home then went into committee of supply. THE ARMY ESTIMATE. Mr. SIDNEY HERBERT said—l am sure the gallant offices who addressed the house a short time ago, making some observations on the distribution of troops, before the house went into committee of supply, and the hon. baronet who sat near him, and who objected to the amount of increased cost in the present estimate, will not think me guilty of any disrespect towards them in having waited until the house had gone into committee before noticing the observa tions which they made. Before Idoso I will state—and I will endeavour to do so as shortly as I can—the changes which are embraced in the present estimate, stating at the outset that the present estimate must not be looked to as the whole estimate for the year. (Hear, hear.) The Go vernment thought it more consonant with their duty to allow the house to discuss their policy, being a policy on which any large increase of estimate would be necessarily founded, before laying any each large increase before the house. This, therefore, must be looked on as an estimate formed in time of peace, but in anticipation of events which might follow. (Hear, hear.) Now, it will be seen that the proposed increase of men amounts, speaking in round numbers, to 10,600 ; bat the increase really is rather larger than that, owing to the reductions which have taken place in some of the colonial corps, and particularly in the Ceylon corps, in which a large reduction has been effected, because it was found that in the course of years the re cruiting ground of the Ceylon Rifles did not afford a suffi ciently large population to .recruit the regiment ap to its then establishment. Allowing for these reductions, we may consider that the increase of British troops— guards and infantry of the line—amount in round numbers to 11,000 men, and that the increase of cost will be 300,0001. The increase in the whole estimate, however, will be balanced by very considerable reductions in the non-effective departments of the service. (Hear, bear.) There are some items of increase over which I can have no control, as in the case of the Military Asylum, the Hibernian School, and the hospitals at Chel sea, and Kilmainam, where the increase in the price of provisions has of course had considerable effect. By the constant application and vigilance of the military authori ties, there is a reduction of something like 33,0001. The attention of the Government has for some time past been systematically turned to the staff, and the reductions in consequence have been considerable ; but in spite of that, there has again this year been a reduction at Canada, the Cape, Hong Kong, Nova Scotia, and the West Indies, amounting to about 5,0001. Before I state the degree to which the coneentration of troops has increased the io effec tive power of the army, I shoul d like to mention what changes have been made during the year in its of educationrior ganisation. (Hear, hear.) Upon the subject in the army, very considerable changes have been made this year. (Cheers.) In the first place, the pay of the schoolmasters has been put on an entirely different footing from that on which it was heretofore. Hitherto the school masters have been paid a very small fixed stipend, and have had to trust for the rest of their receipts to what they could get by fees from the men, their scholars. It was, thought, as it turned out erroneously, that the effect of that system would be, that, their pay depending on their activity and their exertions, they would from motives of interest keep up the numbers of their scholars. But it was on experience th it this was not so. It was found that the popularity of the schoolmaster, and the number of men attending the school, depended far more on the interest taken in it by the officers than on the degree of efficiency in the schoolmaster; for of his efficiency the great majo. rity of the men were not able to judge, whilst if they found the officers of their regiment taking an interest in the school, they were immediately stimulated into attendance. The result was, that we had some of the very best schoolmasters receiving the lowest rates of remuneration, and, on the other hand, some of the worst receiving the highest; and there were constant complaints from those who considered themselves ill off, and requests from them to be removed to bettor regiments, to regiments where the attendance was better. Under these circum stances I proposed to Lord Ilardinge that the system, not answering, should be changed, and that instead of the faulty mode of payment then existing, there b ou ld b e three fixed rates of pay, into which the fees should be merged, applicable to three classes of schoolmasters. I suggested this change, awl at tilt) 541110 time proposed that UNIVERSITY OF OXFORD. In reply to the Earl of DERBY, The Earl of ABERDEEN was understood to say that he would have no objection to lay before the house the correspondence which had taken place between the Govern ment and the authorities of the University of Oxford. RUSSIA AND TURKEY. Lord BEAUMONT then rose to move the following resolution :—" That it appears from the documents which her Majesty has been graciously pleased to communicate to this house, that the efforts of her Majesty and her allies to establish, without recourse to arms, amicable relations between the Sublime Porte and his Imperial Majesty the Emperor of Russia, have been unremitting ; that it ap pears also, that those efforts have failed to produce the desired effect, and that the Emperor of Russia continues to hold by force of arms two important provinces of the Ottoman Empire; that it is, therefore, the opinion of this house, that the best interests of this country require that immediate and effectual means be taken to repel the unjustifiable aggression of Russia on the territory of the Sultan—(hear, hear)—and that the power and influence of this country should be exerted to place the relations of the Sublime Porte with the rest of Europe on such foundations as shall appear best calculated to secure a durable peace, and ,afford the Ottoman empire a fair opportunity of developing its natural resources, and of proceeding with its administrative reforms." Having in timated that it was not his intention to resume the dis cussion which had recently taken place in that house on the subject, he observed that though the Government had very ably defended themselves against the attacks made upon them, there ware two or three charges affecting their conduct which still remained unexplained. The accusa tion as to their incredulity in not believing in the real in tentions of the Czar—incredulity carried to a point 'of weakness had been altogether uncontradicted. With respect to this allegation the noble lord reviewed the policy of Russia for a number of years before the ex isting rupture with Turkey, and read documents to chow that she had violated treaties in order to carry out her ob ject of seizing Constantinople. He particularly condemned her conduct with regard to the treaty of Adrianople ; and read a letter or despatch, written soon after that event by Count Nesselrode, to the effect that it was desirable, by indirect means, to acquire an overwhelming influence over the Porte. He contended that the history of this period, which the Government must have been perfectly acquain ted with, ought to have led them to place little reliance on the assurances of Russia. He did not, however, regret the efforts they had made for the preservation f peace, because they had enabled them to ascertain the feelings of the people on the aggressions of Russia, and at last to act upon them with vigour. The second charge which the Government had not satisfactorily answered was, that they had not availed themselves of the information at their disposal to ascertain the relative positions of the empires of Turkey and Russia. They had attempted at the commencement to run down and bully Turkey, unaware of its real character and resources, and had used language in relation to its independence and in tegrity which had had a very injurious effect in encouraging th aggressions of Russia. There was, however, great differ ence in the language used on these subjects by Ministers in their lordships' house, and those of Lord J. Russell and Lord Palmerston in the other house. That used by the First Minister had been such that he felt it necessary to bring on the motion With which he intended to conclude, for he had said he had misgivings as to whether we were right in going to war, that it was for the Government to resist the feelings which the people had shown, and that it was their duty to encourage them into pacific views. He denied with indignation the morality of these doctrines under the circumstances in which the country was placed. Lord Palmerston's tone had been totally different. His mo tion, however, was founded upon what had taken place since the meeting of Parliament. The Queen's Speech told their lordships the state of relations between the Porte and Russia, and said that the papers should be laid on the table. About that time Russia had rejected the note founded upon the protocol of Vienna, the alternative of which was war ; and he naturally expected when it was rejected, that the next step would be either a declaration of war or a message from the Crown. But no information whatever had been given to Parliament since that period, and the absence of it justified him in stating that their lordships were in a state of ignorance as to the proceed ings and the intentions of the Government. Describing Ole inconvenience which thus arose, he expressed a fear that the Government might bo considering the note which resulted' from the protocol of Vienna as still before the Emperor of Russia ; and that, if the Emperor accepted that note, her Majesty's Government would feel them selves justified in accepting peace. He protested against any such conclusion after the sacrifices which this country had made. That note, indeed, would place Russia in a better position than she was before, and he was sure that the people of England would never sub mit to such a result. We had now an opportunity of erecting a barrier against the insidious attempts of Russia to obtain authority in the Ottoman empire, and England would never be satisfied if the sole issue of all our preparations were the Vienna note. The independence of the Ottoman empire must now be firmly established, and Russia be confined within her own territories. He wished, therefore, to see the treaty of 1841 re-enacted, the spirit of which raised barriers against any infraction of the territory of Turkey or any other Power. Alluding to the argument of Earl Grey in the last debate, he contended, from his own personal knowledge, that in no portion of the world, not excepting England itself, was there such complete religious toleration for different sects as in Tur key. The intolerance- was on the side of the Greeks and Latins, and not on that of the Mahometans; while in all disturbances between the contending sects the Turks inva riably took the side of order. He wished, indeed, that a portion of the toleration afforded to the Greeks were cur tailed, because the clergy exercised it to the detriment of the laity. In all other respects the administration of Tur key had made great progress. After some lengthened ob servations on these and other topics, the noble lord con cluded by moving the resolution. The Earl of CLARENDON—I have listened with great attention to the long and able discursive speech of my noble friend, but I have listened in vain for any argument in support of the resolutions with which he has concluded his speech. There are parts of those resolutions which are certainly unobjectionable, but it appears to me that it is perfectly useless for your lordships to affirm by a positive resolution any facts that were contained in the speech from the Throne, and that it would be highly objectionable for your lordships to adopt a resolution with reference to a war which has not yet commenced, in order to give scope and development to Turkish administrative reforms. I hope that any noble friend, having had the opportunity of mak ing his speech, will not press his resolutions. I am not about to follow my noble friend, even if I were able to do so, through the various points to which he has referred. I shall not call your lordships' attention to the speeches which have been made on this subject, nor to the articles in the Times, nor to the Turkish or Russian iniquities to which my noble friend has referred. Nor should I have troubled your lordships at all to-night, if it had not been that my noble friend referred to that unqualified opposi tion to which we have been subjected, and if he had not accused us, as others have done, of what I know is not the fact—of having exhibited vacillation and want of energy during the negotiations on this question. But, after all, the only matter on which I feel bound to offer any explana tion, or , indeed, concerning which any explanation either to your lordships or the country is necessary, is in respect to that part of my noble friend's speech which refers, not to past events, but to the condition in which we now stand and to the prospects that are before us. My noble friend has referred to our ready credence of what was stated to us by Russia, and has alluded to my having said that, up to the time of Prince Menschikoff's mission, we believed that it would have been impossible for any government not to give credit to those frequent, solemn, and, on many oc casions, unsolicited assurances which were given to us by Russia. lam sure he would have done the same. About two months after that began a change, and as as soon as we found what was the course of policy being pursued by Russia we never felt one moment's hesitation as to the course we should adopt. We declared our determina tion to maintain the independence of the empire of Turkey, and we advised the Sultan not to assent to anything contrary to his dignity or independence. We assured him, and we told him, that if terms consistent with his dignity and independence were refused to be ac cepted by Russia he might securely rely on our active sup port ; but, at the same time, we strenuously and sincerely laboured in the cause of peace. If 33. , noble friend would put himself in our place, as we were situated eight months ago, be would find that at that time it was our interest and the interest of our allies, and even of Turkey itself, not to rush into a war. The state of things at that period was this :—Turkey was wholly unprepared to defend herself ; there was no Baltic fleet ; our own fleet was cut off, and so was that of the French, while Austria and Prussia were entreating us not to resort to hostile measures, notwith standing the occupation of the principalities by Russia, as t i t wnf he ett ffhyb. ee huct their u p .r a e o l d p,Nr t to o h hs e a e nn t tt theyaht soonerei o y n cold o assured inte thd tehed e us Emperor R r c tu e h d s ea eyi Russian nwo i t otf h runol ß odup u sas s sci s eta i : is , tnhe b rco u eou t d h b a e t i d n the principa o liftirutstrta, hant t h h e eob Emperorobject of o w f h ßussia aasc to get h t i h m e me diationoutof those provinces. Your lordships need not be told that at that time there was no desire for war, there as no one who would listen to war, and nobody believed in the pos sibility of war. But now nay noble friend says that the use of strong language on our part would have controlled Russia means 'la menace,ave prevented war.nenacemeans war. I , My lo r d s , s t rong language that you have no right — my noble friend has no right—to _ say that the Emperor of Russia, or any man, would have feared a menace. When we aro talking of Russia we are dealing with a ver y g reat nation, but we are also dealing w ith a single man h oldin g des p otic power, and irresponsibleg for the exercise of it, over many millions of people ; and I should like to know why ho should yield to menace, even if the English and French fleets had occupied the Black Sea. If we bad gone to war, what would have been the conse quence ? My noble friend has said that on account of the great military preparations which Russia had made, there was nothing to prevent her from crossing the Danube and going to Constanti no p le. Now, I believe that Russia could not cross the Danube. B ut what would have been the state of the Turks if that had taken place? Turkey was unarmed, u nprepared, and unable t o resist a hostile ntissia Power, have and the consequence must hav e been, that been able to extort from the fears and weakness of Turkey whatever she desired. Turk e y might then have fairly said that we had disregarded her interests, and the people of this country would have been highly indignant that no attempt had been made to save Turkey from those disas trous consequences. - But, my lords, we acted otherwise ; we acted as any men of sense, conscious of what the law of nations required, and of the weighty responsibility which attached to their ewn acts, wouldihave acted. What has been the consequence? Even my noble friend admits that a powerful army has been raised in Turkey with a ra pidity perfectly wonderful—an army which has done great service, animated by a spirit wholly apart from any fanati cal spirit, and which inspires the utmost confidence in the Ticcur mad vitality of that country, Well, thou Quo 96i 5i 86 4i 5 1304 Et 3i 94 63 7a 81 8 i i 97i 7 105 f 41 23i 65 g 5 34 3j 41 64 151 34 4} 3 35 70i li ' ". PETITIONS. Mr. PIGOT presented a petition from the Corporation of Reading in favour of reformatory schools. Mr. SCOBELL presented a petition from the proprie tors of the Bath papers praying for the repeal of the paper duty. Mr. C. BRUCE presented a petition from a place in Scotland against the endowment of Roman Catholic priests. Mr. LAING presented a petition from members of the Free Church of Scotland, praying for .an increase iu the salaries of the Scottish parochial schoolmasters. Mr. HADFIELD presented a petition from the most influential inhabitants of Sheffield, praying for a reduction of the duty on Fire Insurances. Mr. ELLIOT presented a petition from a place in Scot laud in favour of a national system of education free from sectarian bias. Mr. A. ITASTIE presented a similar petition from Glas gow. Sir J. Y. BULLER presented a petition from the ma gistracy of Devon praying that the county rate may be relieved from the support of militia barracks. HARBOURS OF REFUGE. Mr. MACKINNON wished to ask the President of the Board of Trade when the report of the commissioners which had been appointed to investigate the state of the harbours of refuge on the coast would be laid on the table. Mr. CARDWELL said the inquiry had terminated so far as this part of the kingdom was concerned, and the re port of the Commission was in the course of preparation. He hoped, therefore, he should be able to lay it on the table in a very short time. POOR RELIEF. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to ask the Chief Com missioner of the Poor Laws whether his attention had been called to the practice of tying up the bells during the night at the West London Union Workhouse, and in other unions in England, having the effect of preventing the ad ministration of relief in urgent cases. _ _ Mr. BAINES said, as far as he knew, and as far as he hoped and believed, no such practice existed. One case of the kind occurred last week, but the parties had been taken before the magistrate and punished. CONTROVERTED ELECTIONS. Mr. LIDDELL wished to ask the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London when the house might expect to receive the new bill relating to controverted elections ? Lord J. RUSSELL hoped he should be able to lay it on the table on Monday. COPPER COINAGE. Mr. THORNLEY wanted to know from his hon. friend the Secretary of the Treasury, whether any arrangements were being made for supplying the colonies with copper coinage, and especially the Australian colonies. Mr. WILSON said a contract was now in the course of execution, under which 80,000 pieces were being delivered daily, and part of these would be devoted to the colonies. GUNPOWDER FOR THE ENEMY. Mr. OTWAY, adverting to a report which appears this day in a morning print, wished to ask the hon. Secretary for the Treasury if there was any truth in the report that gunpowder had been stopped in transitu which was in tended for the use of Russia ? _ _ _ Mr. WILSON said a large quantity of gunpowder had been seized by the Customs authorities, which was in the course of being shipped to Syria for the use of the Greek insurrectionists and the Russian forces, but he did not feel justified in disclosing the names of the parties who had been entrusted with the shipment, as it was just possible that they were ignorant of the purposes to which the gunpowder was to be applied. (Hear, hear.) He might take that opportunity of stating the measures which the Treasury had taken to prevent such shipments ; they had caused an average to be struck of the quantity of gunpowder which had been entered outwards to the various Continental States during the last two and three years, and in future if it was found that the shipments exceeded this average the gunpowder would be stopped, unless some good reason could be shown that it was not intended for the enemy. (Hear, hear.) At the same time the Treasury would be much obliged to any on e who could furnish them with information of any shipments that might be intended for the navy of Russia or her allies. (Hear, hear.) HOCUSSING A POSTMAN. Mr. FRENCH wished to ask the hon. gentleman whether it was true that a postman had been hocussed, and a letter addressed to the Turkish Ambassador ex tracted from his bag. (Oh !oh !) Mr. WILSON had heard nothing of it. (Hear, hear.) TRANSIT OF HORSES TO THE EAST. General WYNDHAM wished to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty or the Secretary at War, why the horses of the cavalry and Horse Artillery are to be embarked in sailing transports, at the risk of a protracted sea voyage, and whether any good and substantial reasons exist to prevent their accommodation on board of steam-vessels. Sir J. GRAHAM, in reply to the question, entered into an explanation to show that it would be both inconvenient and expensive to the country as well as dangerous to the horses to forward them in steam-ships, as they would thereby have to be kept on deck for many days. (Hear.) TREATY OF ADRIANOPLE. Lord D. STUART wished to ask Lord John Russell whether there would be any objection to lay on the table of tho house a copy of a Despatch written'in the year 1829 on the subject of the Treaty of Adrianople by the Earl of Aberdeen, and referred to by hiur in another place on the 31st day of January last. Lord J. RUSSELL said he would consult his noble friend on this subject, and answer the question on some future day. MEDICAL REFORM. Lord D. STUART wished to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department, 1. Whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to issue a commission to in quire into the state of medical and surgical education and government in the United Kingdom : 2. Whether it is the intention of her Majesty's Government to introduce a bill on medical reform during the present session of parliament ; and whether the draft of a bill, submitted to his lordship by a deputation from the Council of the Provincial Medical and Surgical Association, has received his approval or that of her Majesty's Government : 3. Whether it is the inten tion of her Majesty's Government to introduce a bill during this Session of Parliament to enable them to grant a new Charter of Incorporation to the Royal College of Physicians of London. Lord PALMERSTON said there was no intention to issue a commission, but he hoped to be able to bring in a bill before the session closed, on the subject of the other two questions. LEICESTER GAOL. Sir H. HALFORD wished to ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether any report had been received from the commissioners appointed to inquire into the discipline and management of the county prison at Leicester; and if so, whether such report may be expected to be laid before the house ? --- Lord PALMERSTON said he had received the report, and he was now consulting the law officers of the Crown whether it was right to institute any proceedings upon it. MILITARY KNIGHTS OF WINDSOR. Mr. GRENFELL wished to ask whether the Govern ment intend, during the present session of Parliament, to cause inquiry to be instituted with reference to the claims of the Military Knights of Windsor, for an equitable ad justment of the rents and profits arising from certain es tates belonging to the military order of St. George and the Garter. Lord PALMERSTON replied that the Government had no intention to introduce such a measure. SOLDIERS' WIVES. Mr. MACARTNIIY wished to ask the Secretary at War whether it was intended to provide temporary accommoda tion and support for the wives and children of soldiers now proceeding to the seat of war, who had not been pro vided with a passage on board the transports ; and, in case of their being unable to support themselves and families during the absence of their husbands, whether there is no other mode of providing for them than by being passed to their several parishes, and becoming inmates of the workhouse. Mr. S. HERBERT said his attention had been called to this subject, and he wished the house, in the first place, to understand the system upon which the Government pursued with regard to the wives of soldiers on the removal of troops in ordinary cases. It was usual, when a regi ment was removed for ordinary foreign service, to allow six women to every hundred men ; but as the troops in the present instance were about to go on particular foreign service, it had been thought to reduce the number of women and children generally allowed to accom pany a regiment ; and for this reason it was thought only an act of humanity to take such a course, for on advice being sought on tho subject from officers who had had experience in the field, it was found that it was only with peat difficulty that the women who accompanied the troops could keep up with their husbands, while as the march was prolonged, the children gradually disappeared, from which it was inferred that they died of sufferings or starvation. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances the Horse Guards had thought it advisable to reduce the number from six to four, and, of course, in reducing the number of wives they reduced the number of children also, but he should state at the same time that provision would be made for the support of the other two wives and their children, who, under an ordi nary removal, would have been entitled to accompany their husbands. (Hear, hear.) The wives remaining be yond the number of six were, in the every day cases of removal, convoyed to their friends at the expense of the State, where they had any, or to their parochial settle ment, where they had none, but no permanent provision was ever made for the indiscriminate support of soldiers' wives whose husbands were sent on foreign service. (Hear.) And the reason for this was obvious ; because, if such universal provision were made, it would hold out such an encouragement to the soldier to enter the marriage state that there would be no end to such claims upon the public purse, and, therefore, it had been not thought advisable to depart from the ordinary rule that prevailed in such matters, except iu so far as he had already explained. (Hear, hear.) REMOVAL OF IRISH POOR FROM ENGLAND.I Mr. MAGUIRE drew the attention of the house to cer tain cases of illegal removal from England to Ireland. By the present law an Irish pauper removed from this country may be taken to the nearest ports to England —namely, Cork, Waterford, or Wexford—the port, in fact, most convenient to the person taking the contract for their removal—and flung upon the Irish shore, frequently lea,v in,, then to trudge ou foot unaide d a distance of 40 or 50, ° or 130 miles before they can reach their birth place, and there they have no other resource in most cases than an Irish workhouse. The hon. member quoted a number of cases of Irishmen who had lived for is, 20, and even 40 years and upwards in England—chiefly in metropoli tan parishes—but when they died their wives and children were, on seeking parochial relief, summarily laid hold of by the parish• a uthorities and sent off to Ireland, even though their children were born in England. afx. BAINES said he should regret very much if the house should suppose that he underrated the importance of this subject. (Hear.) Ou the contrary, he fully appre ciated the importance of the subject, and he had no hesita tion now in repeating what he said the other night, that the law ou this subject is iu a highly unsatisfactory Awe, h / Y ,i S t;;; ,, ..,.._ s. ,---------.....eeesea.....esesss , a. - . • - M r/ Vr l fs. '° : promotion from on e c l ass to another ,ho a.: - ••:i...,` ;, and by merit alone. (Hear, hear.) Iha suit -doubt that -- this would k ee p np a high state of efficien ,'the hope ,of appreciation and reward being in this, as in the y prof ss sions, the best sti mu l us to exertion. (Hear, he .),, In not say that th e resu l t of this school system hail& y prof been extremely good, and that the army has derived great advantage from its introduction. The house will perhaps recollect—in reference to the education of officers, to which I propose now to advert—that some few years ago the late Duke of Wellington issued an order that no candidate for a commission in the army should receive one, unless he had passedsa certain standard examination. (H.) The Duke of Wellington also stated that it was his wish that no offi cer of the army should be promoted from a subaltern rank to a company, unless he had passed an examination proving him fit for the transition. The duke then said, that in the first examination all you need wish to obtain was the know ledge that the young man had had the education of a gentle. man, and that he possessed the abinties to take full advan tage of that education. Rut of the second examination his grace spoke differently ; and ho said that it should show not merely that the candidate had had a liberal education, but that he had applied it by turning his mind to military studies, and to an acquaintance with the theory of his pro fession. The present examination for the first commission is conducted at Sandhurst ; and about it .1 do not wish to enter into details ; but my impression is shat the edu cation there is too limited, and within its limits too seveT' It is too narrow, becaus e cer t a i n t ex t b oo k s on ly al e pub lished, a certain prescribed course only required, and the young man who has not the best memory but the quickest memory is most successful ; the consequence of whf ch is, that young men are sometimes rejected for not knolving things which it is almost ridiculous to expect them to know. (Hear.) My own impression is, that that is "RA a fair or a desirable system, and that it might be thus ios proved :—By allowing a young man who had had a fair liberal education to be examined in what is stated he had learned, by making that the test of his fitness as regarded sufficiency of instruction, and by only considering further his ability to take advantage of the education, the liberal education, which he had received. This is all you want in the first examination,' In the second it is different. You then want a professional examination • you want to know' that, in additi on t o hi s gentlemanly education, your officer has applied his mind to mathematical and strategetical studies, to such studies as will render him efficient as an officer. I know there is an objection, which I consider fal lacious, to this examination, that, by it, you will get men who are book - worms instead of gettingthe active spirits you require. There is this answer to that, that if the officer who has studied his profession is the worse for his studies, then you must admit that the whole body of the Artillery and Engineers are unfit for their profession ; and that I am sure you will not do. (Hear.) There remains, how ever, this difficulty —a more reasonable one, to my mind — that the means of study given to different officers would not be the same, and that they - would, on the contrary, vary extremely with the localities in which they were quartered. For instance, the officer quartered in England had access to all the best and newest books, while he who is quar tered in the backwoods of Canada, or elsewhere, was, of course, isolated from all access of the kind. It is proposed, by way of removing this difference of opportunities, to establish at the head-quarters of certain districts an officer whom you may call " Captain of Instruction," or what you please, who will be known as professor of military studies in that district ; and on whom it will be arranged that every subaltern officer shall get leave to attend. Thus every such officer would be able to go through a course of instruction before he became a lieutenant, and through a course of instruction before he became a captain. It is intended that there shall be an examination on both these occasions; but, of course, great care must be taken, and will be taken, at first, not to make these examinations too high. With regard to the instruction and education of the men, I need only say that one proof of the degree to which that instruction is popular among them is shown in the increasing number of volumes which they use. The number of books, 5,000 when the libraries were established, is now 118,000, and the number of men subscribing is be tween 15,000 and 16,000. (Hear.) It was suggested by the gallant officer (General Evans) that there is not at pre sent any sufficient means of education for the post of army surgeon. (Hear.) With especial reference to this ques tion, I have made inquiries both at Paris and Vienna as to the training provided for those who are candidates for employment in their armies as medical officers. At Paris I find they have gone into an extreme which works very ill. They take medical students and educate them exclu kively for military surgeons, entirely forgetting that in nine cases out of ten a military surgeon's duties differed in no way from those of an ordinary surgeon. (Hear, hear.) On the other hand, here, except at Edinburgh, it is impossible to get instruction of the peculiar charac ter necessary to make a complete military surgeon. Now, what we propose is not to diminish' by any means the general studies of young men wishing to be come military surgeons, but to superadd to those general studies a course of lectures on military surgery ; these to be given in Edinburgh, Dublin, an d L on d on . (Har.) The house will be aware that no army in the world requires this so much as our own. Last year, for instance, in Bar badoes, which must be supp ose d t o b e mos t free from it, the yellow fever broke oat, and, notwithstanding all that the doctors there could do, it did not abate. At last we were obliged to send out medical men from England ; but what were they? Men who had studied every disease but this, which they had had no means of studying in Eng land. It is most necessary that before young men become army surgeons they should have the opportunity of becom ing acquainted with the diseases of tropical climates, as well as the peculiar diseases, incident to the soldier's life. (Hear, hear.) Under these circumstances, and such being our opinions, we are going to extend professorships to Dub lin and Edinburgh, and we hope to make arrangements for a course of lectures there by next autumn. These lectures, I believe, will be attended with a doable advantage. Not only will they be of the greatest value to students—a great number of army surgeons also will gladly have recourse to them for the purpose of adding to the stock of knowledge they already possess. (Hear, hear.) Now, sir, let me say in passing from this subje c t, l e t me remark that with this system I have spoken of—consequent upon it, I believe— of the education of the soldiers, there has been a very re makable improvement in their conduct. It was the cus tom for many years to govern in' the army almost entirely by the fear of punishment • it has been the custom, for some years, to govern ft by the hone of reward. (Hear, hear.) The difference, I say, has been very remarkable.. Under the former system the man entered for life, at least for twenty-one years, during all which time the best he could hope was not to be flogged, not to be imprisoned, and so on. Under the present system he has not this only motive of the dread of punishment—he has the immediate hope of reward, by the increase of his pas, and he has the assurance that ultimately, in the case of long service, he will obtain an increase of his pension, supposing his merits to entitle him. Lately, too, we have made a difference with regard to men who have given 21. years of good service. The practice was to give them a medal after their discharge; but that, however gratifying to them, had, for the purposes of example, but little effect. We have changed that practice, and now we give this medal after 18 years, and he who has earned it wears it from that time till the time of his discharge. We have likewise made changes with regard to the accommodation of troops on board ship. We have made arrangements with contract packets, and the effect of all these changes has been most marked in the conduct of the men, the excellence of which increases every year. This year, I may mention, if anything were wanting to prove the greater than ordinary frugality of the men, that there has been an immense augmentation bathe amount they have invested in the savings banks. (Hear, hear.) 111 1844 the number of depositors was 1,890, the amount de posited 14,849/. ; in 1853 the number of depositors wag 10,723, the amount deposited 124,0001. As to offences, the number of persons in military prisons is diminishing, but on this point I will read an extract from the governor of the prison in Limerick :—" From a force comprising so many men as that which sends its delinquents to this pri son, only 172 have been received during the last year, a fact which, it is my privilege to say, exhibits a decrease in the per centage admitted in former years. That this gra tifying result is to be attributed exclusively, or even chiefly, to the dread of military prisons, would not, I think, be a correct conclusion. Mere punishment, however rigorous and severe, will not deter the soldier from offendin°. I can not, theref ore, but regard the decrease of military offences as in a great measure the happy consequence of that system of education and reward which is now so beneficially ope rating upon the soldier, and teaching him to realise the importance and advantage of respectability and faithful ness. The excellent conduct of the troops serving in this. district is additionally gratifying and observable, since during the past year drunkenness has, I regret to say, very lamentably increased among the lower orders in this part of the United Kingdom." Now, sir, having gone through these heads, let me say that the military authorities, while paying this attention to the individual comforts of our sol diers, and to the means by which the character of the men could be formed, have not neglected to take measures for securing the general efficiency of the forces. (Hear, hear.) Last year I took from the estimates a sum for the purpose of completing an establishment at Hythe, where we could obtain—what it was very difficult to obtain—a sufficiently long range for practice in shooting. Before the completion of that establishment the practice of the musket had bee; extremely neglected, and in some regiments there w scarcely any ball-cartridge used in the course y ear . of edi h e e_ . a (Hear, hear.) That state of things is now re anl T that establishment a certain number of pr i vates ,a i n n d th t e h i e r n tu th rn ey ; non commissionedtheynbtoaiffincperars e g t o ie f e ro there to instru . ct those whom. go back to their regiments, a b le Theconsequence is that there id they left behind them. ni and each instruction r eg imen t hardly a regiment n ow no t thoroughly masters of what lately generallyneglected. A gentleman, a com p ° • t h h e er ha d d ay s , ee h n sving spent aday" almost thaw more he could believ e. He saw 77 shots out of 10 0 .ut into se t a rget eight feet high , representing cavalry, at : I 1 yar d s . a t e t n 1 16 judge, yt h was so where,came hoe m e told t h i n e e , o He saw men skirmishing, merely guessing their distances, and not knowing them beforehand at all, and these men put in 40 out of 50. (Hear.) And now, sir, I come to the point which was mentioned by the gallant officer who asked what are the Government's intentions—first, with regard to the troops to be allotted to the colonies ; and secondly, with regard to promotions in the army. I agree entirely with what he said as to the distribution of' troops in the colonies, but I must call his attention to the fact that the return he has quoted is a misleading return. The return of the Ist April, 1853, really gives the f o rce existing in 1852. Th e next which appears will give the gallant officer the right figures for 1853, and by it he will find that the number of troops in the colonies has sheers very considerably diminished since the present Govern ment came into office. (Hear.) Five thousand men, I think, have been withdrawn from the Cape, North Ame rica and the West Indies. But you have to put against these the augmentation that has been made in the garris sons 6f the Mediterranean. During the last year, whilst reductions have been taking place in Canada, the West Indies, and the Cape, an addition has been made of up• wards of 1,800 men at Malta, Gibraltar, and the lonian Islands • and it is obvious th a t a t th e presen t mom ena these three garrisons form the basis of our operations ill the East. (Hear, hear.) I agree with the gallant gentle.' roan that , the Government were right in withdrawing troops from the West Indies. There have been complaint* of that, though ; but there always are complaints if you remove troops from any colony. Since the gold discoveries Australia has maintained a regiment of its own—a regi ment which is given only on that condition ; and if they want any further t ro op s , th e y w ill be sent to them on the same terms, and on the same terms only. In short, the Government have male considerable reductions so far as re• gards the gallant officer's first inquiry. With regard to his second question, as to the age, of our generalg cana officers, i l ls° attention of the Governme nt Iran ' „atoointimiatia,saionnd, Nth a view to its determining the whethervi Government have d ecided on issuing of any measures can be tirement of aged officers, be a w n i d th t r h egard e adv t an o c t e h m e en re t: Lordspire The names of that commission h . t . aut on ies Hard. sal officers, General Cath. occording to fitness, of men of wili ac , tivi l tythianknd vigour, . confidence. Two inge and Lord Raglan ; two two g c e olonels, Li eutenant-Genera l neral Kaowl a es n , _of the Rifles . ; cart and Lord Seaton; great military Boller eerx,-stiedretLai:iueeteenfanstta-Gete, Earl Grey aJ. pakin too, two e .s eore tarierat•War, Lord Yanranro and Air. , PAPI.;It ,~Yi,'~,C :e 55f 6 13j I lit i 1 A