The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-02 00:00:00

that, too, seat two Members to the British Parliament? bir, still more would he be astonished were he to go into the northern part of this country, and see flourishing towns • containing-immens e manufactories and depositories of e#ery sort of merchandise, and be told that these places sent- no repreeentative r to Parliament. But I will not stop here, Sir ; he would be even more astonished were he taken to a great and opulent town—l may mention its name, Liver pool—and be told that the manner in which general elec tions were there conducted was on a system of populanelection.—(Herr, hear.) If he were taken there, Sir, he • would see bribery to the greatest extent.— (Hear, hear, hear ) Ile would see men there paid—openly peid—fer their votes; and he would be astonished that a nation whose representatives were so chosen, should be at all competent to perform the functions of legislation. What, Sir, is the case as it now stands? The people, Sir, call loudly for Reform, saying that whatever good existed in the Constitution of this H ouse —whatever confidence was placed in it by the people, is completely gone.—(Cries of " no" and " hear," which lasted for several minutes.)—l say boldly, Sir, that whatever may be thought of particular :moo the confi• Bence of tire country in the constitution of this House is completely gone. (Tremendous cries of "No, no," answered by cries of " Hear, bear.") I will say snore—l will say that it would Le ea•ier to transfer the flourishing tnanufactures of Leeds arid Manchester to Gat ton anti Old Sarum, than to re-establish the confidence and sympathy between this House and those whom it calls is constituents. —(Hear, hear.) Sir, I end this argument by saying, if the case be one of right, it is in favour of Reform—if it he a question of reason, it ie in &Your of Reform—if it be a question of expediency —expediency loudly ca ll s for it.—(clear, hear. ) Sir, I shall now proceed to the more difficult part o f m y subject, namely, an explanation of the tnea tures which, representing the Ministers of the Crown, I am now about to propose to the House. Sir, those Ministers have felt—and i n my - opinion rightly— that it would not be sufficient to grant a passive and teientßeform by lopping off some few straggling deform' t ' ies His Majesty's Ministers are sitisfied that it is not :suf ficient to stop here, or to lop off one branch of the franchise where direct bribery has been proved - 'they are convinced that no half measures will do—: (Cheers)—they are convinced that any trifling or paltering 'with Reform will be calculated not to give that which _it is their wish to give, stability to the throne, strength to the _Parliament, and satisfaction to the country.—(Cheers.) Lot us then, Sir, look to the complaints of the people, ; o r without knowing what those complaints are it is lin .p„,,hle that we can devise any remedies which would 'rata *r them that their grievance , would' be abated. Let us, with regard to those grievances. ascertain whether obey are real griev inces or only alleged ones, and if -we should be satisfied that those grievances li ve/ real, then our nett endeavour ought to be that which e ,ne: my friends have determined to pursue ; namely, to elisceeer the necessary remedies.—(Hear, hear, hear. ) 'Those rentedica we think we have discovered : and if they alistild be snsuccessful, we shall consider it as a great xnefortune to the people and to the Parliament. The i erievancee of which the people complain, Sir, in the state 0. 4 el.e rt presentation, are, first, nomination by individuals ; 2.glyhet4ections by close corporations, and idly, the expense of rie „htons.—(Long and continued cheering.) With re ,gard ton eminations, Sir, I admit that it may be exercised ; n one of ."" ways, first, where there is a smell place w ith little or no inhabitants, and an extensive right of ' suffrage; and secondly, where the 'dive is large, with a dense population, and the right of suffrage very • :limited. Gatton, Sir, furnishes an example of the first 'kind, and Bath of the second. In Gatton, Sir, I lbelieve the right of stiffracr ' e is extensive enough is extended to all householders paying scot :arid lot, but then the population is so small, chit there eergtoriy five persons to exercise the right. With Beth the oe 'Seelifferent :—there the town is large end the popu ogiti„„- ieumerous ; and I do not mean to say that the popu l a ion has not a right to send members to p arli ,htnent, and I have never heard any persons say that 2 L " thought such a town as Bath ought to be deprive.. .of that right, but then, Sir, the right of suffrage is so 11. -cited that the election is managed by a few , • and the great body of the inhabitants have no voice at ell. • a essential that we should apply reate- To both those evil , it . dies—(Cheers) —but at the same time each must be dealt with ina different way. Watts regard to those boroughs which are utterly dee med, in which there are no individuals to exercise the franchise, it would be a mere face _to take away the right which is now exercistd by any individual in order to give it to the hundred ; the only remedy thet can be applied in cases of this `kind is most certainly to deprive such places of 'the right of nomination altogether.—(Loud cheers.) I am perfectly aware, Sir, that in making this proposition we are proposing a bold and decided measure.—(Cheers.) I am also aware, Sir, that on all ordinary occasions :rights of this kind ought to be respected, and upon that *eonsideration I shall' give my vote.—(Hear, hear, hear.) No interest, however trifling, should upon ordi - ry ‘tiorla may occasions be teen:Led, but then public cen sider: render it desirable to destro y not D oty small and trifling interests, but those of so me importance, and in support of that opi nion 1 "hall Le g leave to quote the sentiments eap hessed by the Ri g ht Honourable Baronet opposite , (si r Riabert Peel) who about two years ago pi oposed portant ' measu res which were ultimately two most 1 . ." 1 Legislature. About two y ears e g o adopted by the 'lltea that the Right Ilortouractle the House IN ill re measure known by the name G en tleman proposed a aod in cenne . ctio with of Catholic Emancipation, disfranc . otsement of that measure another for the Led violated no 000,000 unoffendi n g freeholders, who . exer right, who had broken no law, who cased their privilege s, p erha p s iinorsntly, rins impatiently, but still had exercised them it, the man. net . which they in their consciences believed to be best. I urn not going, Sir, to quote the Right Hon. Gentleman's words front any opinion that the Right Honourable Gentleman if; bound to be consistent — (Hear, hear, and a laugh)--Leause I think on a subject of great iniportauce, all me n eeglit to act accord ing to the hest of their judgment fur the benefit of the count' V. I beg the House to tat when two years ago the Right Hun. Gentleman oaood on this side of the House as a Minieter of the Crown, and a; the representative of the opinions of those who are now nut of office, he stated in their name what weave the circum stances which influenced their decision upon that important question. I remember be reminded the House that upon some occasions they were bound to step beyond the or dinary rules by which their decision" were guided upon ordinary occasions, and he Loatanced the eases of the Union and the Septennial Act, toed other precedents when that House, in order to provide fl)r great measures, had takers increased liberties, bad ire, terfered with the common rules and modes which regulated their usual proceedings. Upon that occasion the Right Honourable Gentleman said, " I zertaioly admit the full force of the objections which will undoubtedly be raised against the motion, which will interfere with existing rights. No doubt the elective franchise is a vested right, but it is a right which differs from others— it differs from the right of property and other private rights —it is a puhlic trust which ought to be apitroeseited, no doubt, with caution and reluetance, but still it is a rizht which Pa-liament is competent to deal with." Such were the sentiments uttered by the Right Hots. -Gentleman on that occasion—sentiments with which the House then agreed— indeed there never wao any measure carried themegh this House with more unanimity than that.--(Hear, Lear.) Shall we say, then, that this principle is to be maintained when the poor peasantry of Ireland are concerned ; but that when it touches the great and the wealthy, see are not to venture to treat the question as the public interest de mands? Shall we at once deprive the freeholder of Ire land of that right which he merely exercised as the Con stitution gave it to him, and shall we be afraid to. touch the right of the noble proprietor of Gatton, who returns two Members to Parliament, although be derived no such power front the Constitution ?—(near , ) Shall we say that a strictly constitutional, a strictly legal right shall be abolished, because the convenience, the necessity of the cenntry demands it—and that a right which is mere usurpation, with no sanction of law, and unsupported ( b". l3 ' bY usage, shall tit. respected aro! left untouched. thoush th e public interest requires, and the public voive demands its abolition ?—(Hear, iteer.) Shall we make this glaring distinction between rich and poor, high and low, disfranchise ttt peasiot, and prop the fati4ig fortunes of the Peel- ?—(1-f e ee, h ear.) The plan we propose there fore, meeting the do:flashy i n polo, as the Duke of Wel lington and his colleagues met it in the year 1829 ; and our measure will have the effect of disfranchising a number of boroughs. It would he a task of extreme difficulty to Asce rtain the exact proportion of the wealth, trade, extent, a nd population of a given number of places, and „,e, therefore, been governed by what is manifestly a public record—l mean the Population Returns of 1821, and we iznu ti,ll right of !en din g propose that e ver y borough which -in that year had less than two thou sand inhabit e nts, should altogeth er e Membera to Iherliameto. 7 (co cheers with much confusion.) Teeffect will be uttWy to disfranchise sixty boroughs.—(Much cheering from a ll aides.) But we do not stop here.—(Cheers and some laughter.) As the lion. Member for Boroughbridge (Sir C. Wetherell) would s a y , we go plus ultra, We find that there are forty-seven boroughs of only 4,000 inha bitants, and these we shall deprive of the right of sending more than one Member toParliament. —( Vehement cheers.) We likewise propose that Weymouth, which now sends four Members to this House, shall henceforth send hut two. The abolition of sixty boroughs will occasion 119 vacan- cies, to which are to be added forty-seven for the boroughs allowed to send only one member, and two of which Wey mouth will be deprived, waking in the whole 168 vacan- cies. That, I believe, is the ;hole extent to which Mi- nisters propose to go.—(Cheers and some laughter.) But as I have already said, we do not mean to allow that the re- maining boroughs should be in the hands of select Corpo rations—that is to say, of a small number of persons to the exclusion of the great body of . the inhabitants, who have property and interest in the place. It was a point of great difficulty to decide to whom the franchise should be extended. In ancient times, I believe, it will be found that every person • residing in a borough who possessed an inhabited house in the town, was competent to vote for Members of Par liament. But, at the same time, this was to the exclusion of villeins and strangers, and therefore the electors formed a partieuhir body in each toss n. They were possessed of property, and they bore the charges, and of course they were entitled to vote for the election Of Members of Parliament. 1 say, Sir, that the great object of this House is to get rid of those complicated election questions which are daily coming before it, and to give to the real property and the real householders of the different cities and towns the right of voting for Mem bers of Par) ament.—( Hear, !mar.) The SPEAKER here called " Order, order."—When silence was obtained, Lord JOHN RUSSELL proceeded—We do not intend, Sir, to alter the remaining boroughs, but we intend to alter the elective franchise. Souse of them now, Sir, are in the hands of select corporations ; scitne of them are in the nomination of individuals. This we intend to provide against, and to give the franchise to prisons possessing interest and property in these boroughs.—(Hear, hear.)—l am aware, Sir, it is difficult to know to what extent we ought to go. In ancient times, every person residing in a borough and inhabiting a house was competent to rote, ex cluding only, as I observed before, villeins and strangers. This was the plan we at first proposed, but on consideration we found it confined the privilege very touch in some boroughs, for we ascertained that in some boroughs there were not snore than ten, in others not more than seven, in others not more than three, and in sense only one, rated at twenty pounds per annum.— (Hear, hear.) This, therefore, would be confining, in stead of, as is our object, extending the elective franchise. We therefore propose, Sir, that the elective franchise should be extended to all those who pay rent of 101. per annum, whether they oc cupy such premises or otherwise.—(Hear, hear.)—This plan will be carried into effect under certain condi tions to he het-fatter enumerated.—(Hear.)—We do not intend to deprive the present resident electors of their right to vote, but experience has taught that the right of voting being extended to nun-residents has led to such manifest and. manifold evils, that we are determined they shall no leneer retain their votes.—(Lnuil cries of " bear, heer."j—Some voters will come under one elves and some under another, but it is not our intention to deprive any one of the elective franchise during his life. I have said that all those occupying houses of 101. a year will be entitled to a vote ; we propose to extend the privilege of voting to all copyhold property of the value of 101. a year for Mienliers of a county, us also all householders. All leaseholders of Al years, which have not been renewed within two years, are to have the privilege of voting in towns, and ell leaseholders of twenty yearn, where the property is worth 30/. per annum, are to hare the privilege of voting at county elections.—( Hear, Lear.) It will be sewn Sir, by this statement, thee we hare thought it expedient to disfranchise 168 seate.--(Hear.) But it is not our intention to fill them all up again. (Loud cries of " hear, hear," which lamed for several mi nutes.)—lt is our opinion, Sir, that the number of members of this House is inconveniently large. Any Member who recellects this House, before the Union with Ireland, at which time a hundred Members were aided, which I will not say was a great evii—sny Member who recollects this, and how business was conducted before that time. will also recollect hoar much more readily it was conducted. It is well known that many Members obtained a seat in the House from motives entirely of aosbition and the honour it conferred.—(llear, hear.) Every one knew that many did nut attend at all, or if they did, it was only a manifest convenience to those who tu, k part in the public business. It was a well known tact that many Members have been absent for two or three ears together, and other instances were on record where the Member after his election had never even attended to take the oath..—( Hear. )—Some Members only came down to rote away the public money. We therefore propose to make a reduction, and fur the conve nience of business , 0 cut eft several Members.—(Loud cries of "No.") We propose that seven large towns, now unre presented, shall serail two Members each.--(Hear.) We propose that twenty other towns, not represented, shall send one Member esch.—(Hear.)—The seven towns which are to send two Members each, are the following : Manchester and Salford Wolverhampton, Billiton, Birmingham and Aston and Sedgeley Leeds Sheffield Greenwich, Deptford, and Sunderland and the Wear mouths. The following were the names of the towns, each of wit'ch, i t was proposed, should send one Member to Par liament Brighton Kendal Blackburne Bolton Wolverhampton Stockport Macclesfield Dudley South Shields and Westoe Tynemouth and North Warrington Shields Huddersfield Cheltenham Halifax Bradford Gateshead Frome Whitehaven, Workington, 1 NVakefield kiayrington 1 Kidderminster. It is well hnowa that a great portion of the mettopolie and its neighbourhood, amounting in population to 800,000 or 900,900, is scarcely at all represented, and we propose to give eight Members to those who are thus unrepresented by dividieg them into the following districts Districts. Population. Tower Hamlets •.:53,0V0 llolborn .18,000 Finsbury ... 162,000 Lambeth.. By thiiie mons, Sir, we make four divisions of the metropolis arid its suburbs, to each of which wej give two Memberi. I ant ante, Sir, that whin the wealth anti population of the parish of .Marylebone is considered, it will not be thought that we ate going fully entitled to if I as too t a t; horoogh of 130- loud laughter.)---Our nest f a r ,h w r g say Members c l t i l e'aa thatt a e ar parishan z t and neet object, Sir, is to enable larger counties to send mere repeceentatives. I cannot think , Si r, t h e r e will be the least 4ectio.l to this proposition ; for this is a plan of Reform that was prop;s4 in the days of Earl Chatham, • end had been advocated ever Since, 7....fothilig can be snore that large counties in which there an im oiense Itaztt_fiiiituring population, such as Staffordshire others, --nothing . ez.:4l he more fair than that such coun ties should have aeditio7.4 Members. The Bill I shall beg leave to introduce will geve ewe? .;:dditional Members to each of twenty-seven counties, Yilkere lha inhabitants eeneed 150,000. Everybody will exeect tit Xorkehire, divided lotd three ridings--the East, West, and N0rti0,.... should h ave two Nernhere for each riding ; and the other counties to which this r4itional privilege will be given Are the following :-- 1 nester Wilts Salop 1)e t')' Warwick - Durham Cumberland lion Gloucester Northampton Nottingham Lancaster Surrey Notfo lk Der . = Northumberland Bomerset Essex Leicester Surlolkt. Kent" Ot.e.harupton Yorkanire Lincoln I now, Sir, proceed to another part of my measure. It Ia to prevent the great expeoce at elections where the poll is protracted. We propose the taking of the poll in dif ferent parts of the country, and that all electors, either for counties or towns, shall be registered.—( Hear. )—The ma chinery of thie plan will he very simple, at the same time very necessaiy in order to obtain -the names of voters. At . a certain period of the year the.clitirchwartlens and over-eels of the .parish will be compelled to produce a list of all those occupvizg houses of 10:. a year. They will ,be oh- Heed to mike a reteirn to an officer to be appointed, who will hear all objections and ad:udge. When this is gone through, on the lot of December in every year the list be published, anti every person whose name is on the. list will have a right to vete, without being usked any other question than what is necessary to prove his indenti ty. —( Hear, bear. )—This list will be accessilde to all. I think this regu lation will save much en:pence. and time in deciding on disputed votes. Ana evil which w e propose to r seedy is the duration of polls. We therefure intend that booths shall be e , ected in different parts of the county, which materially lower the expence. We consider the machinery of our plan so simple that in all towns the pnll nosy be taken in one day. But considering the disturbance that exists during contested election., we propose to extend it to two oar, or, if necessary, to four.—(Hear, hear, hear.)— In counties it will necessarily he somewhat different, We propose then that the churchwarden's list shall be affixed to the doors of every parish church, and in all cases of dispute with that list, a barrister shall be appointed by the Judge of Assize to examine into the .question, and his judgmennt shall be final. Every such list of free holders, copyholders, and others, after it has been signed by the barrister, shall be sufficient evidence of the party applying being entitled to vote. Every one knows the enormous expense at present incurred by bringing np voters to the poll. In Yorkshire, for instance, it cannot be done for a less expense than from a hundred to a hundred and fifty thousand pounds. In Devonshire, where the voters were obliged to be conveyed over rugged roads, the expense is equally enormous. —(Hear.)—These manifold expenses it is intended to do away with. I, therefore, propose that the poll shall be taken in different hundreds, and in different places in such hundreds, at convenient distances. If this plan is adopted, we think the whole might be taken in one day ; but if any dispute arises about votes, we give power to the officer appointed to adjourn the decision till next day. It shall be so arranged, that no voter shall have more than fifteen miles to travel ; at the sane time, however, the distance shall be so contrived that there shall not be more than fifteen polling places in a county. In the counties to which we propose to give two) mots Members, there shall be two districts. The arrangement of all this will, of course, be a matter of some difficulty, and we propose that a Committee of the Privy Council shall he named by his Majesty fee the purpose of examining the divisions into which the counties may most conveniently he arranged. Ttcse Privy Counsel lors—(Hear, hear, from Sir Charles Wetherell) — will persons of known responsibility in the p e rformance of this duty.—( Hear, Leer. ) In some of the boroughs whew franchise will be continued, the number of electors is ex ceedingly small, it is our intention, therefore, to insert in our Bill, that wherever the number of persons rated at 101. shall be below three hundred—the adjoining parishes and chapelries shall add to their n umber.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—That these are vast and extensive powers I pretend net to deny, but his Majesty's Mini sters felt that there was an obvious difficulty to he sur mounted. In considering the manner in which that difficulty was to be met, his Majesty's Ministers have felt no small difficulty, and tt e only guarantee that could I e proposed in order to the due performance of the high duty that would devolve upen them, 'c aid he the known integrity and respectability of the persons to whom it should be confided. They shall report to his Majesty, and hy the King's Royal proclamation (as we understood the Noble Lord), that report shall be made public. Sir, if any Hen. Hon. Member thinks these powers too extensive, I will only ask him—granting the impor tance and the difficulty of the task—granting the object a proper one, and that the business must be done—l will ask him to propose another method of doing it : and I will venture to say, if the method is more constitutional, more likely to advance the interests of the people, which should be paramount to all other considerations—(Hear) —his Majesty's Ministers waiving their own proposal, will not have the slightest difficulty in adopting it. Sir, there is but one other thing to which under this head I shall call the attention of the House. It is proposed that in all those towns to be named to send Members to Parliament, the property which a man requires to enable him to vote for the town will not enable him likewise to vote for the county. So that where the towns have their vote for proper repre sentatives chosen by themselves, they will rot interfere with the county representatives, and the two classes of voters will be kept as distinct as pos sible. At the same time it is not intended to interfere with the freeholders, who now have that right in towns which send Members to Parliament. I believe, Sir, I have now concluded all the alterations which it is intended to make with respect to the represen tation of England. With regard to the right of the forty shilling freeholders, no alteration is intended to be made with respect to the it being considered that that class of voters are eminently Otted:to be entrusted with the electk e franchise, his Majesty's Government coneiderinr that they „ do by the smalnres of th,ir property, send those Members to Parliament whom it would be most desirable to have. [A Memher, whose name we do not know, here called on Lord John Ru=sell to name the disfranchised boroughs;— repeated cries of " Order, order."] It is proposed to take away the right of electing Members to s,rve in Parliament from all towns which do not contain two thous and inhabi tants. With respect to some of these, it was at first a question whether we should not still allow them to send each one M. mber ; but, on consideration, we thought it bett r to avoid all chance of an imputation of partiality. We, therefore, determined to fix upon the number of two thousand inhabitants, and thereby leave no doubt that in their disfranchisement we were not influenced by partia lity, by prejudice, or by a wish to favour some.—(Hear, hear—Ordsr, order.) The Noble Lord then read the fol lowing list, in the course of which he was frequently in terrupted by shouts of laughter, cries of " Heir, hear," from present Members for the borough disfranchised, and various interlocutions across the table. The " Hear" of the .. ..... _ Hon. Member for Boroughbridge eipecially, was followed by tremendous cheering and laughter. meborough, York Haslemere Plyrmlon A Idborough, Suffolk Heyden Queenborough Appleby Heytesbury Riegate Bedwin Hi ham Ferrers Romney Beeralston Hindon St. Mawe's Bishop's Castle Ilehester St. Michael's, Corn. Bletchingley East Looe wall Boroughbridte .West Looe Saltash (Laughter.) Lostwithiel Old Sarum Bossiney Ludgershall Seaford Brackley Malmesbury Steyning Bramber Midhurst Stock-ridge _„..... Buckingham Milborne Port Treg,ony Callington Minehead Wareham Camelford Newport, Cornwall Wendover Castle Rising Newton, Lancashire Weoblv Corte Castle Newton, Isle of Whitchurch Dunwich Wight Winchelse.a Eye Okehampto n Woodstock Fowey Orford Wootton Basset Gatton Petersdeld Yarmouth The following was the list of the boroughs which would be allowed to return one Member of Parliament each : Amersham Helston Rye Arundel Honiton St. Germans Ashburton Huntingdon St. Ives Bewdley Hythe Sandwich Bodmin Launceston Sudbury Bridport Leominster Shaftesbury Chippenham Liskcard Tamwortli Clitheroe Lyme Regis Thetford Cockermoutli Lymington Think Dorchester Mahlon Totness Downton Marlborough Truro Droitwich Marlow Wallingford Evesham Morpeth Westbury Grimsby Northallerton Wilton East Grinstead Penryn Wycombe. Guilford Richmond 1 The Noble Lord *went on to say, he oad new stated all the alterations which it was Proposed to make in the state of the representation of England. With regvd to Wales, the only alteration which it was proposed to make, be. sides introducing the same right to the franchise into all the boroughs there which they did in England, consisted in adding to the towns in Wales which already sent Members to Parliament the neighbouring unrepresented towns, so as , to give them a share ,in the representation. They pro posed, for instance, to add Holyhead to Beaumaris; Ban gor to Carnarvon ; Wrexham to Denbigh ; Holywell and Mold to Flint; Llandeff and Merthyr Tydvil to Cardiff; Welchpool, Llanvilline, and three other places which re turned Ketn,!;ers of Parliament formerly, but which had been disfranehised by a decipher of the House of Commons, he believed in the time of Sir Aiorace Walpole, to Mont gromery ; St. David's, Fishguard, and Newport, to Haver , fordwest ; Milford to Pembroke ; Presteign to Radnor ; aeel they further proposed that a new district of boroughn should he :."4'eci4s.4, consisting of Swansea, Cowbridge, Laugharn ; and three other piaces,whichehOuld have the pei vilege of returning one Member to Parhement. That was the only additional Membe r which it Was s proposed to add to th4' representation of Wales. I come now, eiee continued the Noble Lord, to the representation of Scotfann ; &eel, certainly, if England wants Reform, the same thing [Mist be acid * het in a stronger manner, with re ference to that coun try. if, Sire we have here close boron ghs, we have at the same tiine popular riPeesebtaeion, tret in Zeetiand there is nothing like a popular retiresentation. • No sueir thing is there known. The generality of the people of ,Sc'otieree'e comprising wealth, intelligence, and respectability, are not repretteeeed in this House otherwise thin I shall now explain. I n the eonneice tetre are a lto- . gethes 2,,2`,3 electors, who appear on theroit, bee e i whoM a number are always absent, leaving 2,240 e'ectors. It certainly, Sir, is not my intention to enter into 4 t l a e i t i a . i c l l s , i a t s i s to .. th fri e ci n e i n a t u ! f l o er : Ln e w t l , l , ic s h ay Sc t o h t a c t h vti?ettyl areat der.: tinet from the land. I have, ' Sir, in my hand a return of the - different counties; in one place out of 666 electors, only It have any interest it the laud ;in Bute, oil' of le) eleetore there are bui• two ; in Rose, out of 29 voter: only 19 ; and in (mother place, Out of 224 electors. t_ml c y lie 9 3 7 ..) h — av T e his a , n yinee therefore, i 1 I Sir, interestcaot :n inthe hg '. taken to be a fair representation of the land in Scotla nd. Now, Sir, what we propose is that every person who h as what is called the dominion of the land to the amoun t of 101, a year, which will be about equal to our 101. free holder, shall have a vote at the cou n ty election, and a lso the leaseholder of 1;3 years of 501. a year.—(ll , -" T • ) d. We propose to make a new arrangement of the reprevrte ration of the whole country ; gieing to Edinburgh twP Members ; to Glasgow two; to Leith, • Aberdeen , and Paisley, only one each. The Fifa district of bur g h's being disfranchised, that county, lik e t h e others, shall re- turn one Member ; and, as we propose to do in Englata," the towns to which the right is extended shall be taken ou of the representation of the counties. The electors in those towns will consist of all persons possessing property, or occupying houses of the value of ten pounds a year. Scotland possesses some advantages in respect to registra tion. With those alterations, therefore, Scotland will be represented in this House by fifty Members, instead of the present forty-five.—(Hear, hear.)—ln these districts the votes at elections shall no longer be taken as at present. The election will no longer be made by the delegates of particular incorporations—(Hear, hear)—but the votes of all the qualified electors shall be taken personally, and the election be decided by the sum of those votes. The Noble Lord then read a statement, of which we subjoin the substance : The counties to be 'settled as follows :—Peebles and Selkirk to be joined, and to elect one Member together; Dumbarton and Bute, Elgin and Nairne, Ross and Cro marty, Orkney and Shetland, and Clackmannan and Kin ross, with certain additions, to do the same. The remain ing tw en ty-two counties each singly to return one Member. Burghs to be as follow :—Edinburgh to have two Mem ers ; Glasgow to have two; and Aberdeen, Paisley, Dun dee, Greenock, and Leith (with the addition of Porte bello, Musselburgh, and Fisberrow), each singly to return -one Member. The East Fife district of burghs no longer to return, but to be thrown into the county. The remaining thirteen districts of burghs, each to re turn one Member with these variations—that Kilmarnock shall take the place of Gla•gaw in the district of burghs to which Glasgow formerly belonged ; Chat Peterhead hall take the rlace of Aberdeen ; and that Falkirk shall be added to the distriets of Lanark, Linlithgow, Selkirk, and Peebles. _ _ . As to Qualification of Voters.—Burgh Members no longer to be elected by Town Councils or Delegates ; nor County Members by persons holding sort-knit' es of certain value. The qualification for counties being ownership of land or houses, worth 10/. a year, with residence; or holding as tenant, in actual possession, on written lease for nineteen years or upwards, to the value of 50/. For Burghs, the occupancy of a dwelling.house, rented or rated to taxes, at not less than 10/. a year. All votes to be registered by Sheriffs. Poll to be taken by Sheriffs or substitutes, at one or niece places, not to be open for more than two days. Reports front several polling places to be made to prin cipal Sheriff, by whom tine return is to be always made, for Burgh as well as County Members. I now proceed to the question of Ireland, where Reform, although it is necesary, will be much more simple. The election of mem , ers for boroughs in Ireland was began at the time of the Union ; therefore it appears there are none of those very decayed boroughs in Ireland which we have here. There is, however, that evil which I have already pointed out as existing in England, namely that the elective franchise is not held by a number of persons well qualified to vote from the extent of their property.—( Hear. )—We propose, therefore, that the same right to vote shall he extended to Ireland, as regards the value of property amounting to 10/. a year—that we shall give to every person a right to vote who resides in a borough, sending Members to Parliament.—(Hear, hear.)—l am convinced that this will be found to be of very great benefit to Ireland. There are many of the boroughs in which the people suffer the greatest inconvenience from their incapacity of vot ing. I would mention only one instance, an instance which I brought forward last year, I mean the case of the bo rough of Wexford, where the people being all excluled, were subject to dues to the amount of 2,0001. a year for coming to the coast of England, which, had they been tree of the corporation, they would not have been subject to. lam well satisfied, therefore, that tints will enable the people of Ireland to proceed in tine cultivation of their trade and industry, which it is so desirable should take place. There are many places of emt commer cial importance which have not at present their due share in the representation. Of these the principal are Belfi , t, Limerick and Waterford, to which I propose to give repre sentatives, so as to add three to the whole number of Mem bers for Ireland.-IGreat noise.) There is an advantage arising to Scotland and Ireland from this measure, from a number of Members being cut off front this House representing different parts of England whose places are not supplied ; they win become of greater relative impor tance consequently in comparison to other Members of the House. In this respect the measure is calculated, it is hoped to give great satisfaction to both Ireland and Scotland. The period of election will terminate in Ireland within the same time that it will terminate in England It is not intended to make any other alteration in the right of voting for the Irish counf es, exco:pt that beneficed cler gymen shall be qualified to vote as 50/. freeholders. At election 4 the e”tes are to be taken from the opening of the poll to the conclusion—in the same manner as in England. —(Much noise, hear, hear, and order.) The result of all the measures comprehended in this Bill, as affecting the number of Members in this [louse, will he, that of the present number of 658-16 S being taken off by the dis franclii einent of the boroughs-490 will remain. To that number five being added as the increase of Members for SL!otland, three for Ireland, eight for London, and 142 fur the rest of England and Wales, making the Future number of Members of the United Parliament 596 --(hear, bear, and great noise.) The decrease of the present number will accordingly be sixty-two. I will now state the nunib-!r of persons who will be entitled to the suffrage under this Bill, not previously possess ing that right, in the different boroughs and towns, in London, and in the counties. I suppose that in the coun• ties the franchise will be extended to 110,000 persons ; in the towns to 50,000 ; in London to 95,000 ; in Scot- land to 50,000 ; and in Ireland to about 40,000 rations. bear.)—ln the counties at least 110,000 will he retitled to vote who never bore possessed the franchise --(Hear)—and it is my opinion that the whole measure will add to the constituency of the Commons House of Parliammt, about half a million of persons, and these all connected with the property of the country, having a valuable stake amongst us and deeply interested in our insti tutions. They arc the persons on whom we can depend in any future struggle in which this nation may be engaged, and who will maintain and support Parliament and the Throne in carrying that struggle to a successful termination. Sir, I think the probability of the possession of this fran chise will be an inducement to good conduct. When a man finds that by his being rated to a certain rent, and by paving rates, he will be entitled to a vote in the election of a Member of this House, it will be an inducement to hi:n .to b.! careful, and frugal, and punctual in his dealings— (Hear) —it will be a great inducement to him to preserve his character amongst his neighbours, and the place which he holds in society. I think, Sir, that when we add this large constituency tee provide for the political and moral improvement of the people. Having gnn., through these different statements, I cannot but take notice of certain points which will be considered defective by those ,who are professedly the most jealous' of popular rights. In the first place, it will be said, there is no provision fur the shot ter duration of Parliament? In answer to that I say, that question has been much and anxiously considered by his Majesty's present Ministers, anti after the fullest consideration possible, it was thought better to leave it entlnly as a separate ques tion than to bring it in at the end of a bill which affected the franchise, and other matters totally se parate from that question, without saying what is the opinion of Ministers upon that question—a question of itself of the utmost importance, and which deserves the utmost e consideration. I say that it was thought better to present the large measure of Reform by itself and leave the other measure as to the duration of Parliament, either to b trFottght in by some other Member, or to be brought in i ts e t t i e t n u ,bil a ,k pro perthat at a future j.ime by Ministers for futur e cons id erat i on . For my own part, I can only say that th oug h I thi n k itm c o o s o t t rol desirableo v over yet have t it would be inexpedient to make the duration of Parliament so short that members of this House should be in a state 0 -; perpetual canvass with th e op i n i ons o f t h e i r cons tit uen ts, _:_(Loud chevraj—and therefore unable to advise, delibe rate, and decide uplift any Brea: question which might be brought before them with that freedom which should pie vail in the Legislature of a great empire. I shall very freely etate my op 3 nions when the fitting season arrives, but at pre 'sea tha qo7e7pinent have no measure of the kind to pro poee, satis6ed as they aa., that if they can provide for the co nstituents the means of enabling them .10 e!:::ct their own representatives, it would be better not to narrow that question by another which has ics own doubts, difficul tie,, and ohitschs to contend with.' There - is another question of which no mention whatever is made in thii Bill—a question which has obtained of I.,te many tolvorates and much general support—l 'mean the quretion of the ballot,—(Cheers. )--There la no doubt to recommend tile adoption of that measure.—.(Loud odes "H of 'ear; and no, nth") wore ingenious argutnents titan have been used in favour of the ballot have never fallen under my o bservation, and I hope this House will pause before it sanctions the motion of the Ifunotirable Member for 13ridport, who prop.ises the ballot to ha the mode of election iu all cases —(Cheers)—that mole of elec.:ion, Sir, whilst it on the one hand favours the conscientious voters, it on the other hand, affords a cover to much fraud and much crime, it expoiCs a man to the influence of bad passions, and while it prevents bad influence over the good, it pre- vents good influence over the bad.—CLond cheers.) I I also think it very doubtful that the people of this country, who have aftways been accustome.to vote openly, and to state their opinions in the face of day, would ever resort to concealment in the exercise of the most impor tant privilege.—(Cheers.)ne-I am bound, Sir, more over to say that it appears doubtful whether there ought to be in the community any class of persons wholly irresponsible—(Chesirs)—and that the ballot does create an irresponsible power no man can doubt. Ido not think the ballot would counteract the influence of diffe rent claloes of society, or that it would counteract aristo cratic influence. But even if it did, I own that Ido not like to see any irresponsible power confided in the hands of any one man, or of any body of men, knowing, as I do, that man is a being whose mind is clouded by a variety of errors, and influ enced by every variety of passion and of feeling. I shill now say a few words as to the merits of this plan. In the first place, great objections will be urged iiig againstn of e this measurekind isby a t n hos in e no w v h a o tion tl:in a k nd th a at eyer t depar ture from the wisdom of our ancestors—these men will say, As our ancestors have thought fit that Old Serum should send Members to Par liament, let Old Sarum send them still."—(Hear.) • To that, Sir, I answer " Our ancestors said let large towns send e embers," and I say Old Sarum is not a large town ; but Birmingham and Manches ter are large towns, and therefore let them send Members, andof one in saying so than believe anl r m e to oacsay ex acting more and Manchester, and let Old Sarum have Members. Let no man say that as Old Saturn in the time of Edward 111. ul e. Birminghamin th e spirit sent Members, that we, by permitting the Old Sarum of the present day to send Members, are following the prin ciples of our ancestors. I know, Sir, it will be sail that eminent hankers, merchants, and lawyers, who have gained admittance to this Howe by means of these boroughs, will now be excluded. I doubt that proposition very much, f I think no measure of Reform could prevent learning, wealth, and capacity, frmn having their due influence upen the great body of the constituents, and I am ;trite sure that in popular boroughs, that influence would preponderate. As an instance of the influence of learn ing and talent upon the constituents of popular boroughs, I would cite the case of my Hon. Friend the Attorney- General—(Bear, hear)—and I am sure that lawyers of eminence, and merchants of respectability, will continue to be elected, and to bring to the deliberations of this House that learning and that Species of know ledge which qualifies men to take part in our discus sions. I shall again be told, Sir, that the effect of this measure will be to destroy the influence and power of the Aristocracy ; that, Sir, I deny, but on the con trary I maintain that the influence of the Aristocracy will be much improved. I mean that Aristocracy which min gles with the people, which knows their wants, which receives their neighbours hospitably, and which mixes along with the people. Sir, it is not in human nature that such an aristocracy must not have great influence in the election of Members deemed worthy to serve their country. Such an aristocracy will always have each an influence as every good man will say they ought to have ; but if gentlemen mean to say that it will destroy the influence of an aristocracy, which does not live among the people, which knows nothing of the people, and cares no thing for the people, which seeks rank without merit, which seeks for places without talent, and for pensions without services, for Fetch an aristocracy I have nosympathy. The sooner the influence of that species of aristocracy is cat rigid away with the corruption in which that influence has thriven, the better for country, and the better for every wholesome and invigorating influence.—(Cheering.) The question is, whether, without some large measure of Reform you can carry on the affairs of the country, with the countenance awl with the suppert of the people.—(Hear.) Sir, I believe we cannot.—(Hear, hear.) It may be a question whether we can or cannot resist that particular plan of Reform ; but there is no question whatever but that you must either reform, or with this Constitution you must perish.—(Cheers.)—This House, in its unra. forme! state, has nothing to look to but the countenance, and the support, and the sympathy of the nation; hut it is now quite clear, that if yon refuse Reform, that sympathy will be for the future withheld, and I ask you, whether when the Ministers of the Crown are convinced, when they serve a master who has permitted them to lay their propositions before the House, when they come forward to declare they think Reform is indispensable, when the people out of doors, by multitudes of peti ttons, and by millions of voices, are calling for the same thing, whether the House of Commons will say we alone are the judges of our security—( Hear, bear)—we despise the propositions of the Ministers of the. Crown, we despise. the warning voice of the people, whom we profess to represent, and we will keep our power any how against all retnoro , trances; against all petitions, and take our chance of the dreztdrul consequences toat may ensue.—(hear.)—Sir, I appeal in toy turn to the i aristocracy of England. My opinion, Sir, of the gentle men of England is, that in a great crisis of the ceuntry they have never been found wanting, that when the country was (engaged in war against the national enemy, they were almost the foremost to come forward, that whets biathens were to he supported they were ever ready to sup, port those burthens with the rest of their fehow• subjects, and I ask them now, when a great sacrifice is to he made which will show their generosity—which will evince their public spirit—which will identify than for the future with the people around them—(Hear)-... I ask them to corns forward in such circumstances, to give to the Throne stability, to the Parliament strength, and to tins country peace.— (Continued cries of " hear, hear.") sir, whatever may be the result of these propositions ; however they may be met by this House, the King's Mi nisters will find that they have done their duty. They have hitherto proceeded in a straight-forward course, nei ther looking for the support of a perticular chose, nor fear ing the disapprobation and the frowns of 41K:then (Cries of "liear, hear, hear.") Wherever stern duty led theta against popular feeling they have not even in such cir cumstances hesitated to persevere. By a firm legitiinate exercise of law those disturbances which prevailed in many parts of England, when they came into office, have now, I trust, been happily terminated, by vigorous exertions of laws which were passed before they entered into office; the agitations so extensive and so extreme have been made in a great degree to subside into peace. At all events they cannot be accused of leaning to popular error, or seeking to ingratiate themselves in a mere popular inconsistent clamour ; therefore, Sir, I think they deserve to be believed, when they came forward with a measure of Reform of the greatest consequence as to the well being of this country.—(Hear, hear.) They have to-night to be believed, when they say in the face of this House and of the nation at large, that they have no sinister or unworthy motive, but that they bring Reform forward because:they believe it to be fleets iry to the welfare of this country. They are interested in its future prosperity and welfare, "and they do think that this measure will tend to promote the one and to insure the other—(Hear, hear.)—They think of Reform, that it is the only measure that is calculated to insure permanency to those institutions which have so long been the admiration of foreign countries—(Hcar)— on account of their popular spirit, but which cannot exist much longtr—(Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Opposition benches)--unless by an infusion of due popular spirit you show that you are determined not to be the represen tative of small classes, of particular interests,.—hut that you will firm a body, which representing the people, which springing from the people, which having a sympathy with the people, can fairly call up the people to support any future burthens, and to struggle with any future difficulties they may have to encounter, confident that those who seek it are united heart and hand with them selves, and look only like themselves to the glory and Pie welfare of England.—(Cheers.) Sir JOHN SEBRIGHT seconded the motion, but in consequence of the great confusion and noise that prevailed in the gallery the Honourable Baronet was very inaudibly heard. He came down totally unacquainted with the plan of Reform which it was the intention of hie Majesty's Ministers to propose to the House, but he was assured, however, that Reform was the only safe guard to the institutions of the country, and it was upon this principle that be • seconded the motion whieli the Noble Lord who had just sat down, had so clearly, so distinctly, and so eloquently supported. The question bring put from the Chair. eit. R. 11. INGLIS rose, amidst the greatest confusion, occasioned by the Members leaving the house: • Nu • menus groups were formed in the lobbies, ante-rooms, and passage., discussing the subject of Lord John speech. The whole scene was one of interest and anima tion, beyond what for many years has been witnessed. Sir R. Inglis at length became audible, amidst the cries of " Bar, bar," and " Order, order. Ile said that the plan of tjid Noble isced was wild and impractieahle. .No man could approach the subject Withounbeing sensible of its difficulties, and those difficulties were now much in creased by the peculiar citcunistances in which the country was placed, internally and in relation to the other kingdoms of Europe. Reform had been successfully re sisted, when brought forward by better men, and under different circumstances, and now, he regretted to say, that there did exist circumstances that gave a totally new cha racter to the case. This was the first time that he had heard a proposal of Reform made in that House by one; who if net a Minister of the Crown, (Cheers.) The Noble Lord had stigmatized both___H and the Crown, and this in language which b e . T 1 ,.. r1 yet beard from any reformer, either in or out of r'_ i r u e po fle n c ted Parliamenta ll their as s ow un e w r o in rth th y e to w stigmas ali discharge w a b a iC h u i :I t ; leidliW.el: 1 . 0: , merit. (The confusion in the House much inter.Ti the Hon. Baronet.) The Noble Lord had said tna .., proposition was supported by the demands of the P e t He hoped that the debates of that House woul d °,, e conducted without any reference to the number of dea n o from out of doors, and that the House would nevellacti such things to interfere with its deliberative eitl`fra., But he denied that the people did demand form (Laughter.) He was perfectly well aware that a' ''. ti periods similar arguments had been used, althol!!: 0 , with similar authority, but yet with great aufhoril,.. the House was called upon to reform itself, for th e Pe"" demanded it. u had °' Lord JOHN RUSSELL rose to explain. H e sets used the word demand, without qualifying it. . 1 ' o f tl he had used was, he believed, the just demand' , people. • ode Sir R. INGLIS continued—lf the Noble Lor d that the demand of the people was nut to en d in tit odes tion, he would submit to the correction ; but as ti c by i v tli stood the phrase, and as it was probably understo ;a ti majority of those who heard it—(llear)--it sec t imply, that if the House did not grant it, the peop e sn a i take the remedy in their own hands —(Hear,lo,lol cry of " No, no.")—At very many periods in the his inte r , this country (he was going to state, when be Olio rupted), many applications had been made for o`oooe though probably they may not be so vehement oes ° 90 or rous as at present; but at all events they W er f l o atie e d merous as justify the exclamations then whi ch t f ;., SP . , heard, with the distinction, that they now cam e 13;,' eel' House backed with the authority of the MIN 'SOY. P re , not fatigue the House with any reference to ver/ igie times; but there was a passage in Burke vabi e " +b - e C I O" almost exactly t ° ' efi tit"; (changing sent peried o . n l yTthhee passage e a " Thoughts on the Cause pwp o al f Ys and it appeared so extraordinarily applicable 0 110 0 sent state of things, that when he should read it 01 House, he thought they would venture to say, t e, present apprehensions taight be outlived, just ' d , 1 ,10 ,r those which were painted so strongly in Mr. Bunk e Ai/ vations. The passage ran thus—" There is B° 9! particularly alarming in the present conjunctur e ' e el , ' is hardly a man in or out of power who holds alO, tfirieomparessreonrtk nofisletiosiiibegor; language ; that hardly anything above or helms' , s h !oss' at home, is eound and entire ; but that di s conoec9, 4 o o, confusion in offices, in parties, in families, in P arw id in the nation, prevail beyond the disorders of anY ' - osi time. These are farts universally admitted end 0 1:0° This state of things is the more extraordinary, he°3,ol-thi great parties which formerly divided and ag iti e . olll kingdom, are known to be in a manner entirely 'i No great external calamity has visited the nati on der tilence or famine . We do not labour at present ti.ti, scheme of taxation, new or oppressive in the qus w i c eoA in the mode. Nor are we engaged in ne sti o sd r wars, in which our misfortunes might easi,_lY,,i, i our judgment." This was the statement Wu'rjoil' Burke had thought fit to make ; but all this W e 2 1 ' o il lira By relying en the vigour and the firtnne 39 o o Government, all these things had been r e movci l ld , being removed, the ronstitution of the country moofi l preserved entire. From the siaternent of another 00 would appear, that in the year 1782, the people fie Reform so earnestly, that it was in vain to thin!' Of t be it ; that in fact, there was hardly an hour to spcse;l,o, quoting Horne Tooke, when be sold " That the prop )"f be satisfied in their just expectations, and that ; he Of tens would grant what they were no longer able W . be would ve,itnre to assert that they would not m u ' t refuse." He (Sir R. Inglis) was ready to admit di,il was an expectation now existing among the peoll k ' e al el to the extent stated by the Noble Lord. The 1 0 ,1 • citation had arisen from the example of France `rssil gium.—(Hear.) It was ail to be found in the Off• of Paris, and the events which had followed tWeile days.—(Loud cries of hear,) When there s'e 39 ,:j . : . citement of insurrection in other countries, i$ ,p, found to be un epidemic disease, and, as such , be e this country also, whether through the air, or O w !: by direct c‘artact, he did not know ; but this at j certain, that simultaneous popular tumults were Pfgpooar —(Hear, }less.) The same remarkable effect w' dared in 1793, and in Condorcet there was .n a Oa which particularly referred to Paiiiarnentary l' e s l# this country. Condorcet observed, that ‘!` Sinc e Se • plosion of liberty in France, a hollow fernatt.ts n " ' . shown itself in England, and bed wore than oneero,o certed the Ministry; popular societies had been f ° , the three kingdoms, and the necessity of Po i° Reform wee es much talked of as that. of callings., the States-Gereeral had been in France in t „;11 1787. It was well known hat numbers lig/ c y oe id • to enlighten the people of England, who tit ° U r and wished for such alteration as would . irresisPr r e then along. The opening of the coming 13 . „ '" it s would be the occasion of such a Reform as ". 0 0' urgently required ; end from thence the forMaol Republic would be less tedious, because the seed s ° l os" had king been planted in England." The con e 4, iy the Reform that was proposed—let it b e called name it would—would ha that the whole of 00'11 would be placed in the hinds of the people. i.A rill s were disposed to admit the facts of the Noble hi t p b e u e r o t: m t t i o: should deny his inference. They were sent th e . re he it ti wwhasicah7gatorisenf:t:tttigo:rendoeciatsi:eiteiuigensniiterstirtadniyot:enani number übt betweenl db a c y eraort l to y day according to be t been rre,ented to that House—he meant t ," ~d • Catholic question. In that instance:, as he 11 " tie" f the u d p et S g thi t m it a n si o t e e en n . as — t : e ( a f v l f o ne r r, e i a t ,i ? 1,13. :: : : vit e l e S' e o at the time, the people prayed for the co° l2 , o a a at, what they a'ready possessed ; in this instance, Old su were aelijng for was a change; tied he never ' 6 ' ° , v ilts l that a roan could have so good a judgment niw., ° „ r , ' A had not, as about what be actually b a d.--( 11e- ;,, It was, therefore, no inconsistency in him to In v 'P o pleat the House then to support the prayer of the pin e a) now (even if he believed that it was the de ° ; 1 people) to refuse their demand. He was allot, fill mere multiplication of the numbers entitled t° is iff .. ,,Y, presentatives could be of no advantage to the c o t oaf without quoting a very trite remark, he InigL i o'l that it was quite as possib!e for great tyrannY ~- for t :, hands of many as of one. He cent - ended, the her; ' to increase the number of voters throughout too , d -r , by a million, would not add either to the fre e. rlrge value of the deliberations of that House. i r be p j o ress sent there for the particular spot that they r- t ' o er, A , for if they would look at the King's writ sen t be t :0 l t all a i n, l r i i ;le t i s i n ii t i g e t e: g o ffi eo u:n:y: (n , ,gf a t s i : ri e v , : y e / ci e u lil v ihr o a eu o d s: ‘ : i f ol o s i e r e ti t iT h e tt s e i ;so t r i a ' l e l el l ; ü b liil e f o 1 ;H required to attend to consider the affairs of t arp A ference to the particular place which they both, At one time such an argument might hav e a ~ reer i so rb ~,, when it was necessary that the Member fo t r e''' iv should belong to that very borough which b e fioll os5: 40 but since the passing of the Act by which ' pOr„ ? Members were accepted as eligible, there syl o rtVi specifically to unite them to the local intereo- a , f 7 .,," :p i which they represented. When a iiierniAZr slr . Ole' ln i to that House, he ceased to be responsible envy. It was at the end of the period wh i a , tb v l i d serve in Parliament that he again came hef °r ibeftdi t ,i ) it was then only that he was accountable tom ',jot,' Noble Lord, like many other theorists, f ll.o e pli 0/ r dasttFt w Kioeitair,je o ne:tanm r ,yuenw s gte h et,iiioesoli ; l:hos t tio—liv h airh: e .ttli:::,iotl w vasneoe o ries.jae r i3uafpa( k nfr)elrir,d.her;: o gy, i ejleoaluddett h atealiiii i aree, s ,rdt.ros)t o ihpc—v i ea v dmtososit n flieiirecrnty ha o n f rl t v e like c oro t t '.; to.l s t v i OL 06 1 ": was no; to be found in any part of the prec t , ice d ' S tl ,,,k, s e d c l i Lord might meet with favour; sai e uownn there tlallelol.,9l brat , e anietsgr a sv " ' e n ci P , : r a hi e , , l ic. ' , ..6 : t tt , t i : t,e he .i i , , r_ipn. ' o:;,, : iii b , t 'V o tei ‘P i ' s,,,, ig : i l:a t,, i : o ' ' O , , . el fromw e were allele whic h menthey a c s ou D id eio d h e n r e ive an i:; oo;oo.ioo .. 0 specs to the constituent duty. Ile kl' e to quis l4 be r b i took on - thernsOyes to talk of rePre B- 0 0.-_, sr o f founded on the basis of population oc, a pin t sto t y he could find no trace of such a principle T o t ° , o ple t cent times of our Constitution. He co i l ' be es, i sito any period of our history popnlation 1 1 ° ° , 4 4 tre: d esne basis of representation. The Noble Lord;' o r L i ,! ° i had grounded his plan on the principle ° d Ga t i lr o and as they had call e d upo n Old Sarum me ter vcostik turn Members, se he would call on illann t 0 h od e He (Sir R. Inglis), however,. finis:: °IWO. b ee whether at any period of our history P°P oro gto , A t entered into the - calculation on whic h i .,, l o 4o , , s tel e t called upon to send representatives to 1- , ld by„,JP same time he knew that it had been Pe i , l o ovi r est ° authority than Mr. Hallam, that if tb s e : pot f r „ i isor t b 010 1 map of England and saw a place that w as no ',put now, it was certain that it was a Plac e _s , t hi c ° when the system of the representation.7if t bef 9 0 • been formed. He thought, however, tbl is . 0 1 into the subject , they would End that w tAeop , va_t e . ! 1444