The Sun. — London, England, 1825-06-04 00:00:00

The Bin was not intended no - convey any individual power of eithdrawing from the responsibility incurred by their per sonal undertaking, so as •to come within the exceptions taken to other associations.: With respect to the measure itself, the promoters of it bail no inten ti o n of applying _for , any exclusive privileges, or creating fellowships, conferring 'degrees, or seeking those libtioars which for a very long time had been considered as, the exclusive privilege of the two great Universities. The plain object was, indeed, this—that assthere were notoriously hundreds of thousands of persons in London who were deprived by a variety of causes of givingtheir -children the benefit of the, collegiate education, as at present, established, both by distatice from the spot as -well as ex-' pence.. It was expedient to provide the m eans of their ace. seeiring such education for their families, in the only way: in which it could be made available for their habits and situa 'Oon of life. There were some who disliked .sending their child- Pt 7.! from home to a college, others who had not the means of, -sending their children to a distance tar purposes - of educa- Col. Indeed, the present_ expence of a University education w a great objection to numbers —it could not be had at Oxford •or Cambridge for less(arid that was a low average) than 2001. a-yean, accompanied, too, with all the collateral expences of , •such a system, which often involved worse than mere pecuni ary cons e quen ces in their train. He spoke from the very highest authority when he declared that the expence and dissipation consequent upon it at the two great Universities was so great, that if not checked it - would produce the greatest evils .to so. ciety. To such a pitch had this -.4ystem of expence been carel ried that at this moment the . g reatest p ains were-taking no check it at the Universities. - - He understood, • too, 'that other great improvements were 'in progress at the - two Univeritiei, and that a better system of education was in - progress at both. The object of his bill was, - in fact, 'to enabl e the pe o p le of. et this great metropolis to ring home to ; their own doors ex good college system of eiliicationeso as to include those who did not like (whatever were their means) to send their children to a distance, and also those whose restricted means did not enable them to encounter the expence. He wished to have established on the spot a college for teaching the scieacee, literature, and the arts; and the student's expenditure would •at the outset lie only three guineas • for each of e those branches, and one guinea admission, making the whole expence of his edit . - cation cost ten guineas a. year only, instead one hundred and eighty or 2001. a-year, as at Oxford. In these branches it -was not intended that the professors should haae sinecures, for their general salaries were not to exceed f rom ROI. to 1001. a. year, 1 except in the particular case of the Oriential professorship, and perhaps One other; and they were to depend mainly upon the successful progress of the business of the school, according to a suitable arrangement which -would be provided for the pur pose. They were not to have houses, nor were-they to.be al lowed to take boarders. One great result of this new college would be, the formation, on cheap terms, of a good medical school. All experience had shown that this could only be had in the vicinity of a large hospital ; and where could that be so well provided as in a great metropolis? They might have it perhaps in Liverpool, Bristol, or Manchester, but in London -only could sufficient means be found of rendering it more geneei rally useful. It was therefore desirable tha t the site of the new 1 college should be within twenty minutes' walk of one of their great hospitals. This would afford a peculiar advantaga . to naval and military professional students, and also to the great societies of mechanics which. were so widely and usefully spreading throughout the country, more particularly those of the metropolis. The present was therefore the time for taking • advantage of the general desire for education, and affording the facilities for which a college in the metropolis was calculated. In the formation of this establishment it was intended to take the utmost care to make its benefits as comprehensive -as posS sible: there was to be no religious test which 'could affect any class of churchmen or dissenters, nor was-there to be, any theological lectures or - course of education of that - kind, it being considered that the two great -universities, and the seminaries for the religious education - of dissenters, -were better adapted for such a purpose. an fact, this was to be the only branch of education not included in - the neiiplan. -It was -proposed that the government of the college should be vested in -a Governor, or Chairman, or some such officer, and -19 other Directors, with other proper-officers, to whom the management of discipline was to he intrusted. -He hoped this explanation -would remove the many mistakes-which were felt respecting the' object of the bill, for which he meant to present a petition for leave to bring in on Tuesday, as a private bill, and not a pub lic one as he had at first intended. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR defended the system of education which - was established at the University of Oxford, with which he had been for more than 40 years acquainted, and -.insisted that they had made the utmost strides to improve it, according to the growing lights of the times. Mr. BROUGHAM said he had expressly stated that faet. All lie had disparaged the present system for was in the strides to expence and dissipation which had attended it. Mr. M. A. TAYLOR said, that lie was in the occasional habit of going to Oxford, and lie knew that the discipline of the. young men there was unexampled, and could n ot be exceeded., Indeed, every thing was done which discipline, science, and•li.- - terature could accomplish. :Habits of reading and study, formerly en known, *ere eitablished in the colleges. !Noblemen and gentle men of rank now commonly took real degrees of-11. A., whereas formerly persons of their rank never thought of-taking any but honorary degrees. A great many foolish notions had got abroad about the idleness and dissipation of the Universities. What- - ever might be the vulgar impression, idleness did pot prevail diere, If the House would compare the number of scholars entered with the number of degrees obtained, it would be dis •-covered that there could be very few who d id not obtain those ' honours. As to the Bill, lie felt sure that all the liberal views '-of his Hon. and Learned Friend must fail. Without the disci , • • pline of a higher authority and the constant examinations-which took place at the Universities, it-would be in-vain to expect - much progress from the students. • Mr. GOULBURN observed, that the opportunity for dis cussion, supposing the suliject to want any, upon the principle was not well chosen. . It would be better to bring it-upon some store after the introduction of -the Bill. • Mr. BROUGHAM again denied having imputed any fault, to the discipline or science of the universities, for their im provenients in which, on the contrary, he had very much praised them. - What he had urged upon the various conse- - quences of expences among the students, he had derived frorn the highest authorities in -theuniversities. This - institution was not intended in any way to rival those establishments. lie Te ther expected, that by rendering the thirst for scientific know ledge, as it were epidemic, among a totally different class, that more property would be-sent to the Universities -inconse,queneee Such was not his expectation only, but also that of-the heads of those institutions with whom lie had communicated, and of the Fellows and past Fellows Of Colleges, who constituted four out of five of the Committee. The Order was discharged, and the notice stood for Tuesday. PRESERVATION of SHIPWRECKED PERSONS. Mr. TREMAYNE Presented petition from Mr. Tren- ' grouse, respecting his invention of an apparatus for-saving lives -train shipwreck. Mr. T. WILSON supported the petition, and stated,- that to his certain knowledge it had been approved of by the Com mittee of Lloyd's, by the Royal Humane Society, by die So ciety of Arts, and by the Elder Brethren of the Trinity House. Sir J. YORKE, in allusion to the claim made on the Ad miralty toreward this invention, which was not by any means so new as the petitioner supposed, advised•those honourable societies who approved of it so highly, to buy the-apparatus of the petitioner, anifierid one set Out in every ship. - Sir I. COFFIN said that the • kindest thing the friends of this poor man could do for him; -would be to advise him to take up box, or bundle of traps, and burn them. Ile-was once -ship wrecked off the coast of Labrador, and he could safely say there was was no timelerany man to think, in that situation, of -a box of apparatus for saving himself. The ship:gifts under water in half an hour, and every man was busy in - finding-a" place upon-the riggiag, or wherever else he could get, for a little more safety.:... . • . - lir. HUME was astonished at the indiffereniel of the Gal, bait Member toalre lives of. seamen. From his long Service in that department., he .had expeeted, a different sort ; of foeling from him. Surely all shipwrecks were not like that'Which the Gallant Member had suffered. Sometimes the crew were - near enough to the shore to -•reoeive assistance, if it could be.ren e , dered to theme and ifnne life were saved in five years, the in vendor. - would deserve the grstitinie of.-:he country and a public reward. , • Sir GEORGE: CLERK said, that a Committee appointed under the Admiralty Board had approved of the invention, though it was not•uew—being only like a counterpart of that of Captain Manley-, who threw a rope with a shell from the, shore, whereas this plan was to give small boats . and yes eels a chance of throwing a rope to the shore from the neSsels. The discussion, tuelanasat had gone, must ha v e folly answered the purposeof the petitioner, who really only looked -.to :the ad vantage which the notoriety would give him. already _in possession of the letters fromahe Admiralty in favour of his invention. The House need not be put to the.. trouble of print ing them—that the petitioner-could do -for himself. Mr. TREMAYNE moved for copies of the papers which bed been communicated to the.petitioner by the Board of Ad miralty.—Ordered. POPULATION RETURNS of the WEST INDIES, .&c. Mr. BUXTON _rose to move for numerous Papers contain ing returns of the population of the Colonies of St. Vincent's, St. Lucie, St. Nevis, Jamaica, : and -the - Cape of Good Hope, distinguishing the black and coloured population. Also the returns of all tereenhandize exported to-China, the East •Indies, Sierra Leone ' • and of all the inerchandize re -ex p orted from the Westlndia Colonies, and from St. Domingo, the Cape -of fGood Hope, and the. Isle of France; of returns from all the Colonies in the West Indies, and from the Isle of Tratiee and :the Cape of Good Hope, from the Ist January, 1821; of the number of slaves, stating the diite of their imptortation,hhe sex of the slaves, where they . Were brought from, the purchaser; the return of sl a ves exported, or manumitteel,..,:ite. • Mr. CANNING. said that be would be the last man in the House to object to returns-valculated for the dueinfortnation of the House.. But upon the face of it this was a method of moving.: for them which could not be tolerated. How was it poSSible for any man to*say, with respect to one half of these now asked, ' that they could or could not be made out, or what time would be necessary for the purpose, if 'they could bemade out? It was but reasonable for Gentlemen toput motions of this extra ordinary scope into the hands of the officers of Government beforehand, that they might be apprized of -the possibility or impossibility of producing them. . Sir I. COFFIN denounced en obvious impossibility in the returns. - They required to have the parentage . -tof the negro children described ! Why,. the fathers, as commonly as could be, might be ten or 'twenty miles off on another estate, and nobody but lie and the mother have the least knowledge of the fact. Mr. CURTEIS, as an agriculturist, objected to the returns. Every time an outcry -was made about the West India colonies, setnethipg was done 'to let in their rum to the disadvantage of British malt spirits. He world resist this motion as one full of Mischief to the agricultural interests. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER began to look at the motion with considerable alarm, on account of the endless topics to- the discussion of whiCh it threatened to give rise—a danger of which he was suddeniy.reminded by the re mark of his Hon.-Friend the Member - for Sussex. Mr. F. BUXTON defended himself front the severity of the Right .Hon. Gentleman,' by assuring - the Ilotise that he had subthitted the returns to the proper authorities.beforehand, and that he had received their written consent in theproduction of them, which proofs of their assent lie.read to the house. Since titerc were oiNectinne, lie would withdraw his motion, and re peat'it on Mentlay. Mr. 'WILMOT HORTON never objected "to returns for which there was a precedents, but the evil,was of immederate 'growth. The Hon. Member for Montrose had moved for 36 different returns respecting Siera Leone, whirl, at the lowest • Computation, would employ . four-skilftil and industrious men at least six month;. The fact was, , that in his department-it would soon be impossible to go on with treble the establishment.— When he entered office in .1822, {he number of pages of printed returns-amounted in that session to 270. In the current session he had already laid on the table more than•s,ooo pages. It was vain to hide it any-longer. This system -called for the active interference of Parliament, otherwise that which was among the most useful of their privileges would become an engine-of the worst abuse. Mr. HUME said, that as the observation glanced at him though thrown out generally, he must be allowed to say that it was not his fault, but the fault of-the system in the Colopial- Office, that these returns were so tedious and expensive. No accounts had been kept there for 30 years running, of the af fairs of Sierra Leone. His object was to have a saving effected of 150,0001, a year, which the establishment needlessly cost the country. If his opinion could prevail, -the expence of all the returns would have been saved out of the quarter of a cargo of goods habitually thrown away upon that coast. For everyloo/. expended at his suggestion for making returns, thousand had been saved to the country. Mr. CANNING objected to,.centinuing a discussion upon a motion which -was withdrawn. Mr. W.. HORTON meant no partictilar reflection. lie only wished to illustrate one thing by another. . :QUARANTINE LAWS BILL. • :The frier of the Day for the third reading was read. ..151r., G. GRANT rose to -correct a very strange misappre hension which had gone forth, .as if .it had been the design a the:Committee of the framers of this Bill, and of the Bill itself, to do away entirely with.the precautionary system of the qua rantine laws. Those who so thought and argued could have read neither-the Bill or the Report upon which it was founded. The Right -Hon. Gentleman went on to show from the report and the bearing-of the evidence, that it never had been the de sign of Government to relax the sanatory principle of the Qua rantine Laws, but, on the contrary, to strengthen it by taking away the inoperative :capital penalties, and substituting others which tverelikely toeecute ,the efficiency-ef the-laws. It had been recommended iin .the Committee, whose investigations had been so frequently made the subject of discussion in that House, that goods from 'the plag ue countries should perfsrm ' quarantine of ewenty - -one 'days after being lended at the Ia zaretto. The conclusion at which the whole of the evidence taken before the Committee seemed to point, was the same as the recommendation of the most experienced practitioners— namely, the propriety of reducing the number of days under the existing law devoted to quarantine. It would seem, theretine, upon the whole, and even according to the opinions of those who ware most apprehensive of contagion , that this important principle was establislied—narneloltatstinlespeet to ships ar riving in the ports of this kingdom ffoni c6ittitries infected with the plague, the number of quarantine days might properly be reduced. In regard to clean bills of health r it was not necessary to dchtin the House on that -subject. -Ile thought it would be sufficient that-Vessels arriving with clean bills should be Visited by proper officers, who.would reportip.t . oi.Privy Council; and upon favourable answers, which whrcti•- , would be received by return of post, such vessels might be admitted. 'in all arrange . ments of the kind the object of Government would be,-that the .modifications to be adopted should not exceed the modifications recommended .by the medical , practitioners. . The Ring in council was already even, under the existing aysteth, vested with large discretionary powers in regard to _the quarentine laws. The Privy Council might declare the trade with other countries, besides those already :included, to be subject to the regulations of quarantinea ardit. might by its order remove that liability front the trades at present subject to it. There was one other object which it was necessary to mention as one that had been maturely considered by -the Government ; and that was the appointment of some experienced and able medical inspector, whose dutyit would be to overlook stil the reports made to the Privy Council, and to advise them thereon. .It would be slesirahle„.aiso,..thahhe should inspect all the quaran tine stations. Sir ISAAC COFFIN, after complitnentieg the Right Hon. Gentlemanon the clear and explicit manner in which he had stated the grounds of this Bill to the House, said, his principal ohjectin rising now was to do away with an idea that had pre -railed .in some quarters as to -the plague never having ma nifested itself tothe northward of Cape Finisterre. Every man at all acquainted with the history of the plague must know that it had made its appearance in England no less tha n four times, and was supposed to have swept away altogether 116,000 per sons in such-visitations. His own apprehension about the pos sibility of its re-appearance in these parts of the world had been more than once (as we understood) seriously excited. The Gal lant_Admiral then read an extract from the letter of a phySician, who had been eight years with our army in Egypt, in which the writer stated that a friend of his, who was a strong non contagionist, bad thought proper, during his sojourn at Malta, to go and shut himself up in the little 'lsland .of GOZO, when the plague had declared itself there. In a few days his temerity cost hinihis-life.—(Hear!)—He (Sir 1. Coffin) was only sur prised that the same fate did not overtake Dr. Maclean, who ventured to betake himself to, and reside in, the pest-house at Constantinople, among the plague patiens confined there. In a very little dint all the assistants he had caused to be hired at two dollars lie,. diem pertahetFoKheinfection, and every one of the patients too, leaving the doctor the only survivor of the whole compan'. Mr. CANNING felt greatly relieved by the speech with which his Right Hon. Friend had just obliged the Reuse. He was very anxious that the House . should understand that the dectrine of non-contagion had really not received any counte nance from the most experienced and practical men. The mss. ~chief, had been producad by the unreserved and confident declarations that had been made by the disciple's of this doc trine,' was positively much greater than perhaps those gentle. Men *ere aware of. Already at Marseilles, at Genoa, a much longer, quarantine was:imposed on British shipping, thin on the shipping-Of any other Enropean nation. At Naples, in addition Mihe usual term o fquaranting prevailing_lhere„ - they had im- A - ed.p. term of 21 days upon British vesaela that hat quitted ';44l#4.3rltaln, ten, since the gentlemen who were such detee -minett nob-contagionists had. -promulgated in all places their opinions.--(Rear l)—Under these ' circumstances, : he'certainly 'did wish that Hon. Gentlemen would be pleased to keep such opiniona a little more to -themselves ; or if they would continue theireiperiments,ite -heartily trusted that they would be tried arid 'eillibited, as such experiments anciently were, in corpore viii, rather than in a manner to prejudice the general welfareof the cornintinity.—(Hear !)—He was happy to say, however, thatthe public appeared' to have no disposition to-concur-in 'the theories tdivitich he had alluded. ' 'Mi. Tnati T a - n 4, Colonel Da t-sts• au. LE were inaudible in the gallery.. ' Mr. HUME quite agreed 'thit the mischief to which the Right Hon. (gentleman had just adverted bad been consider, able, and he thought it was bet right that Ministers should do every tbingin their power to contradict the opinion that had gone abroad . , that our present quarantine laws vrere about to be r4eared. ' But he had to complain that this declaration was not made, as it should -have been, -when the present bill was first introduced by the Government. He could not help ob serving on the lecture which bad been read by the Right Hon. Gentleman, 'however, to the Hon. Member for Westminster, and others who thought with that Hon. Gentleman, on the sub. ject of contagion; hi respect to whom the Right Hon. Secre tary for Foreign Affairs had expressed so strong a wish that they would keep their opinions.to themselves. NOW he (Sir. Hume) was himself by no means satisfied that the principle of conta gion did exist to the degree. in Which ; it had been long supposed to exist ; antl;'at 'irty rate, lie 'believed -that -the discusston of the queition could not be productive of any harm. With regard to the appointment of that medical 'Officer—the the. or .superintendant mentioned by the Right Bon. Gentleman (Mr. Grant)e--he thought it ought not to be left_ to the discretion, or put in the power of any one man to replace, in thit respect, that system of examination and inquiry which had gone on so well for so long a time. . . . , Air. HCSKISSON - felt assured that if the Hon. Gent. would only think-of the resonsibility which attached to the I3oard of Trade, when left to Uecidc upon he case-of every vessel arriv ing with either a foul- or a sustiected bill of health, he would see that it was desirable they should have the assistance of some such officer, possessing the advantage of having visited coun tries where the plague raged, durihg its visitations ; and where lobservation and -Judgment, therefore,- in that matter, might guide the board in all questions of quarantine. At present there was no person attached to the Board of Trade who had ever witnessed the ravages of plague at all. - For his own part, he could only say that be thought this sort of appointment a most important object, inasmuch as there were no cases that he felt to be more difficult, or experienced greater hesitation in de ciding upon, than cases of quarantine. He had always endea voured, in respect of them, to act upon the safe side ; and that was, to follow the belief which the law of this country re cognized-ethat the plague was capable of being propagated by contagion. As to the objection- taken by the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume) that Ministers should have made the declarations which the Right Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Grant) had i I made to-night upon an earlier occasion, the fact was, the Right Hon. Gentleman had in the very first instance stated the prin ciple of the present measure. lie (Mr. Huskisson) had seen the most idle reports in print about the intentions of Govern ment in respect of bills of health ; and he was obliged to con concur with his Right Hon. Friend, that the most serious mis chief was occasioned by such means ; and that they who pro fessed the doctrine of non-contagion, although they were at per fect liberty-to publish their theories in the usual course of pub lication, had yet no right to propound-them in places and under circumstances where they might be erroneously supposed to have a certain degree of sanction from the Legislature. (Hear !) He had seen it stated in the newspapers lately, that a dangerous case had declared itself in the lazaretto at Sheerness; whereas; in fact, every ohe of thepersens in or about that establishment had been strictly examined, and was found to be in perfect health. This report also had, as he had reason to believe, done us a great deal of mischief abroad. Mr. DEN3I AN, alluding-to the opinions and evidence of Dr. 'Millie, examined in 1819, stated that it appeared to be the doctor's.-belief, as that was to be collected from papers in the possession of his .brother-in-law, that it would be unsafe to repeal the existing laws of quarantine.—(Hear !) After a tew technical amendments, the Bill was read a third -time, and passed, under this title," A Bill - to repeal the several laws relating to the performance of quarantine, and - to make other provisions in lieu thereof." UNIVERSITY POLICE. - Mr. Secretary PEEL obtained leave to bring in a Bill " for the better regulation of the Police by night, in the Universities at Oxford and Cambridge." COMAUTTEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion of- Mr. lIE IMES, the House resolved itself into a-Committee of Supply. I Mr. HE It RIES moved that the sum of '13;000/. be granted for the repair of the Cob, at- the :Harbour of Lyme Regis. 31r. HUME observed, lliatthe House would be surprised to hear that upwards of 106.0001 had been paid towards that har. boor, and he, therefore, objected to - the present grant, as it did not appear to himao be a grant of a public nature. In the year 1822, there were 22,000 tons entered at that port, of which there -were but 38- vessels above -100 tons.; he complained that' the quantum of tons had been swelled by every possible artifice. If it could be sheavn that the trade of the country would be im proved by the grant, he would not Opposeit, but he had heard the opinions of several naval men; that-they dotiked upon it as useless, and merely got up as a job. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER observed that the Harbour of Lyme Regis was the -only one that afforded a shelter from the winds between Portimouth and Plymouth ; be, therefore thought that there were Very good public grounds for maintaining-the harbour. He did not lay any stress upon the trade of the harbour, but the utility was of a public nature; the vessels that. took -refuge there actually paid a tonnage for the privilege of entering, and the annual amount (about MM. a year) was applicable to the-repairs that the-Pier might require, and it was in agitation to raise on that security the sum of 6.000 t towards defraying those expences. A great -part of the aiier bad been swept away, and it therefore would be worse than eeseless.to,leave it in its present.state, as the whole of the work that wa:estanding would-doubtless be weakened if it was allow ed to remain in its present-state. In its way, though he granted that it was-a small way, , he believed it would prove a most .useful grant. Mr. A. 8A.P.1 NC; said, that in the course of an investiga tion that had taken place before a Committee, the inutility of any grant tor such apurpose had been.most deafly elucidated, and had no doubt, ifalie Right lion. Gentleman had heard the ,evidence that had -been adduced, lie - never would have been willing to grunt another shilling to the work. 'After a few Words from the CHANCELLOR of the EXCBE -Qn En, Sir. BERNAL, and Sir Isaac Corrier, Mr. 11ER RLESeraitl,etliat the Hon. Member for Aberdeen had made no trifling blunder in his calculation of the exnenees heinglo6,oool..; the fact-was, that they had only been 67,0001. the Hon.- Member having introduced into his account the sum of 30,0001. twice over, a strong proof to the Committee of the _little consideration the Hon. Member for Montrose had given -to the subject. • 31r. IlU3lE—Well, if it.is noanore than 67,0001. that is too much to throw away. - 31r. 8.-0001'ER said he could speak from his own expe -rience of alieutility of the harbour-; had it not been for the Shelter which that harbour had afforded him, he should not now have the honour of addressing the Committee. lie should ' certainly give his vote for maintaining .a 'harbour which had saved himself and his from destruction. The 1111 A I RM AN expressed a doubt whether the resolution proposed by the-BOn. Member for Montrose (Mr. Hume) could be put in a Committee of Supply. The CHANCELLOR. of the EXCHEQUEReaid he appre hended it would be quite unprecedented in a Committee of Supply to put such a resolution as that proposed by the Hon. Member for Alontrose. . Mr. HUME did not -ee the irregularity, hitt -it would an swer his purpose equally to move that the Chairmen report pro gress. He should therefore take the sense of the „House on that question. On this motion the House divided— Ayes,-15 -I Noes, 4;6 I Majority, 51. The original Resolution, was then agreed to. On the Resolution- for a vote of 200 -,000/. as a compensation to the American Government for a number of slaves carried away during the last-war, ' - , - Mr. BERNAL wished to know what had become of these slaves . ? Mr Secretary CANNING replied in a -low tone, that the question in this case was not as to the restoration of the slaves, but-whether a pecuniary compensation should be made for the slaves carried away, who were-considered in the United States as private , property. It had been agreed to refer the difference between this Government and the Government of the United States to a third Power, and the arbitrator -was the Emperor of Russia. The present vote was the sum adjudicated by. the Corn missionners as a compensation for the detriment done to private property - - . - The resolution was agreed to, the House resumed, and the report was ordered to be received on. Monday. e MAURITIUS TRADE BILL. . . Mr. W. HORTON moved. die Order of the Day for the see cond reading of the Mauritius Trade Bill. . Mr. BERNAL said, the object of this Bill was to place the trade of the Isle - of Mauritius on the same footing as that of the West India Colonies, so that their sugar would be admitted, on payment of the same duty as West India sugar. He believed it was not denied, that slaves had been illicitly imported into the Mauritiusup to the year - 1821: This practice had continued . during a period of ten or eleven years, while the Slave Trade was prohibited in the West India Colonies, and Creoles-were, for. the most part, employed in those Colonies. Even at the pre sent moment an armed vessel seas obliged to be kept in the straits , of Seychellei, which lay to the eastof the island of Mauritius, to prevent the traffic in slaves, and strong suspicions existed that that traffic was still illicitly carried on. The island of Mauritius had, in the first instance, requested to be considered as a port within the limits of the -East,lndia Company's Charter. For Ave or six years they enjoyed the advantages of a free port; they then turned round, and stated to the Government that they no longer desired to be entitled to the advantages of a free ort, but that they M Th io be placed on the same footing as 'the West India Islands. e fact was, however, that the trade of the Mauritius stood on an entirely different footing from that of the West India Colonies. No provision had been made in the present Bill to prevent the importation of other foreign sugars, such as the sugars of China and. the coast of Africa, through the Island_ of Muritius. Mr. W. HORTON observed that a provisionhad been made in the Bill to prevent the importation of such sugars. Mr. BERNAL said, he was glad to hear that measures had at least been taken to prevent this inconvenience. He could not conceive, however, on what principal the -sugars of the Mau ritius were to be admitted on the-same footing as those of the West India Colonies, while the sugars of the East Indies were in effect prohibited. He exhorted the Govern m en t to reflect upon the dilemma in which they were placing themselves, and he particularly called upon.the /lon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. W. Horton), to state the grounds on which he supported the present Bill. - - Mr. W. HORTON said, that at the time : the Mauritius was captured, it was stipulated that they should beplitced in the same situation as oureother.Colonies. _lt was a rriere eiccident that it - was contained within the' limits of the East India Company's Charter, and . that could not take away its right tb -enjoy the same privileges as the West India Colonies. The Oilier in Council in .1816, to give that Island a free trade, was followed by a prohibition on the part of France to import the productions of the Mauritius into .France. Their claim to have the duty remitted on sugar ' was to be decided by the question whether their situation did not entitle them to all the,privileges of other colonies. In point of fact, the' Slave Trade, which the lion. Membir dreads, does not exist. Under no general system could the Mauritius be excludtd from the advantage of our market. The apprehension of the Slave Trade being carried on by the means of the Seychell es , e xp r essed by 'alii-lon. Member, was an apprehension of the Slave Trade generally, and not any par ticular apprehension" of the Mauritius carrying it on. As to sugar, the produce of other countries, being imported here, in the name of Mauritius sugar, the smaller islands, even of the West Indies, - produced more than the Mauritius, which made such a supposition very improbable. Unless the Mauritius were placed under some peculiar circumstances, it would be. a gross act of injustice to continue an accidental exclusion, which would be of great injury to that colony. Mr.'ll. ELLIS contended that the condition of this island Was regulated and fixed at the peace, and that it ought not ,to be altered unless some special and strong grounds for doing it were shewn. He contended, on the authority of the African Institution; that the Slave Trade had been carried on by all the Islands of the Mauritius, and that the inhabitants had taken an active part in it. The 'Honourable Member read some ex tracts from the Reports of-this Institution, to shew that'this Was the case, and the people were opposed to every measure of prevention. He gave great credit to Sir R. Farquhar's meritorious exertions in suppressing the Slave Trade, but he atributed his success to his treaties with the Native Princes, and ,not to the co-operation of the inhabitants. What, he asked, would be .the effect of this measure on the .minds Of the inhabitants of the West India Islands, who had. never violated the laws against the Slave Trade, when they! saw the inhabitants of the Mauritius, who, wise in : - their day and generation, had carried on this trade in spite of the laws, and were now to be rewarded for it by the GovernMent, to the ruin of the West India islands ? The moral effect.could not, he contended, be other than injurious, and he:should oppose the measure, which lie hoped would not pass into a law, Mr. HUSKISSON said, that in the last Session it had been proposed to reduce the duty on Mauritius sugar; but the answer of the West India interest hadthen been that theMatiritiusenjOyed Commercial advantages in which the West India islands did not Participate : that plea was now taken away ; the restrictions which had operated upon theWestlndia islands,and which did not affect thetliauritius, had been removed, and bothinterests being now. as regarded commercial advantage, on a footing, a new ground of objection must be taken to the reduction of the Mauritius duty. Accordingly, the opposition at present made to this reduction was of a different description—it was alleged that the colony of the Mauritius, contrary to the law of Great Britain, had carried on, and did still carry on, more or less, an illicit commerce in slaves. But this allegation—as it applied to any trade exist ing—was not supported' by fact. Prior to the year 1820, some smuggling of slaves had taken place ; but, according to the best evidence before the House, that practice continued no longer. Then the Murititts must be judged, not according to what it had been, but according to what it was. If it was to be laid down as a general principle that every colony a possessing slaves, and not entirely adapting itself to the wishes of Parlia ment with respect to them, was to be visited with a heavier tax, let that principle be sustained and applied uni versally. Ile decidedly supported the present measure, and thought that the West India interest was wrong in opposing it. The small quantity of sugar which came from the Mauritius— say 12,000 hogsheads a-year-would make little difference to the West India produce; and even if it did not come direct into this country, its operation in the West Indies would be the same, for it must of necessity be sold somewhere, and would in fact go to meet their surplus supply (and reduce its price) in the general market of Europe. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down by assuring those gentlemen who opposed the pill, that this mist be the case so long as the. West Indies produced more sugar than could be consumed in Great .Britain ; and as soon as oar consumption began to be at all equal to the supply, this fact the West India merchants might be sure of—they would hold their present monopoly no longer. Mr. .BRIGHT said that there was one fact which proved that a slave importation must be going on in the Mauritius.--- The colony-since its , capture,. from being commercial, had be come altogether agricultural. Within the last few years its production of sugar had increased from 4000 hogsheads to 12,000. Now he should like to ask how that increase was poSiible, un., less slaves, and in large numbers, bad been imported ? Sir R. FA RQUHAR said that the House would excuse him for pressing himself at that moment upon its notice, as he had naturally felt a strong interest for a colony which. he had himself so long administered. In 1810, he was pre sent at the conquest of the Isle of Bourbon, to which . he -was accompanied by that meritorious officer, Captain WIL loughby, who had distributed to the inhabitants proclamations, which promised to them not only the advantages they enjoyed under 'France, but the pre-eminent advantages of the British colonies. 'The British promises held out to them were free trade and the tidiest protection to the. produce of the island in •the mother country. But how had those-promises been fulfilled? They had lost the extensive /rade they.formerly possessed, and their produce met with no protection. The Order of Council issued: - in the year 18113, giving to those colonies a free trade, was ac companied with so many restrictions, that, coupled with the prohibitions which were placed on it in' the porbs'of France, it was a perfect nullity. The fluctuations which followed therefrom destroyed all the confidence of the merchants, and the inhabitants, being thus deprived of the benefits of free trade, naturally became agriculturists ; and, owing to the hurricanes, which destroyed the other plantations of the country, cultivators of sugar. Bourbon, being sepa rated from the Mauritius, enjoyed all her ancient advan tages, and the contrast of such prosperity with the deptes :sion of the Mauritius naturally tended to excite discontent and alienate the'affections of the people of that.country. The Mauritius now stood in the anomalous situation 'of being 'a sacrifice to European and Indian policy, whilst, on the ground of interest, expediency, and justice, it ought to enjoy all the advantages of the British sugar colonies. He cotended that no slave trade-existed -at present in -the Mauritius,-'and - that the slave trade .which had prevailed there some four or five years ago had been carried:on by some renegadoes, who had lived by .privateering during thewar, and not by the respectable inhabi tants of the colony. He Slimed, by reference to different ab stracts of the slave -population,-that it had not increased during the conquest of the island, and inferred, from all . these reasons, that there was no ground, save that of sic volo, sic jubco, for op posing•the proposition now suggested in .favour of the trade of the Mauritius; Mr. B. GORDON would have no objection to vote for the Bill, if it were postponed till the , year 1828, - in order that it might be seen in the interim -how far it would affect West In dian interests. • Mr. PLUMMER moved, as an amendment, that the Bill be-read this day six months. Mr. HUM &trusted that the House, -now that it was only doing an act of justice to the Mauritius, would also take into its consideration the state of the West India'Colonies. Mr. W. SMITH said, that his conviction was, that until the West lushes rendered their population independent of foreign import for subsistence, they would not be -in that situation in which they ought to stand. As to the present Bill, he was rather disposed to - favour it, from adesire to try .the effect of the encouragement of such-a measure in an island situated like that which was the object of it. Mr. TRANI' supported 'the Bill, and. the House divided, when the numbers were— . ,For the .Bill - - _Against it - Majority in favour of it - -23 THE DUCHESS 'OF KENT. The Duchess of,Kent's Annuity Bill went through the Com mitre. Report on Monday. - • NEWSPAPERS. . - Mr. - . HUME rose, on the Order of the Day for receiving the tteport of the Columbia Postage Bill, and asked wether it was the intention of Government to propose any clause to release newspapers from postage going to British Colonies. Mr. HERMES said, a measure to allow newspapers to go to the Colonies with a very light postage was in contemplation. The other Orders of the Day having been disposed of, the House adjourned at HALF-PAST ONE O'CLOCK'to-Monday. The Anniversary Meeting of the NATIONAL BENEVOLENT INSTITUTION was held yesterday at Freema sons' Hall, the Marquis of LAstsnowfi in the Chair. The room was filled with respectable ladies and gentlemen. The Noble Chairman opened the busin ess o f th e Meting by stating tl4e object of the Society ; which was one, he said, of pure bene volence. For many years it had extended its aid to persons of the middle clasp of life, who had seen better days, and had be come peculiar objects of sympathy. One of its advantages was to bring to light the character and the misfortunes of that class of persons, and to administer consolation to those who possessed a just claim on theircharity. It was limited by neither sect ror country, whilst evert means were taken to guard against im proper persons becoming the objects of it. He was happy to state that similar institutions had been formed at Bath, Bristol, and Glocester. After passing a high compliment on Mr. Herve, the founder of the Society, he concluded- by informing the Meeting, that they were convened that day to enable it to ex tend its blessings. The Committee's Report was then read, and a series ef resolutions were adopted. The cause of the charity was zealously advocated by -Lord Clifibrd, Mr. nerve, Mr. Brandon, and several other Gentlemen; after which a collt.c. tion took place at tnd doors. ' The Marquis of Lansdown, in addition - to presiding on the occasion, presented the Society; with tk donation of 201. P AR L f A MENTARY PRQCE CD'INGS: HOUSE OF COMMONS. : Veneris, 3° die Junii, 185. MESSAGE from theLOßDS—That they hare agreNl to — r ,. Excise on Sweets Bill ; Banffshire, and Fulham and Ken:. sington Roads• BilIs; aild Wilton (Wilts) - lnclosure Bill, without amendment. RoAns—Doncaster and Thorne, and) Canterbury and Ramsgate TITHES—St. Botolpli (Bishopsgate) I Bills read a third time, PAVlNG—Leamington Priors . and passed. COMPANY—Ariana Iron and Coal QUARANTINE LAWS k SMALL TITHES __ _ Dot:Ks—Liverpool—Bill reported, Reports to lie on the table. EDINBURGH AND LEITH WATER . COMPANY BILL—EI ther consideration of Report put off for Sir months. CANALS—Western Ship—Bill reported, Report to lie on the table; Minutes of the Evidence taken before the Committee to be laid before the House. Berks and Hants—Further time granted to make Report. Kensington —Petition for leave to present a Petition fora Bareported, and leave given. ESTATE s--Caldeleugli's, and Davidson's - 1 Bills read a NAT URAI4ZIVfxoN—Van Wart's J first rime. DivbacE—Wiseman's . ' 1 MAURITIUS TRADE • A SSIMI,LATION OF CURRENCY Bills read a second time. LOWLAND CHURCHES (Scotland) DECEASED OFFICERS EFFECTS I PILOTAGE I _ - lAI Pit ovt MEN Ts—Bognor and Lo ndonderry—Billa read a third time, and passed. Brighton—Six Petitions against, and one'in fain:Pay—to lie on the table. LONDON COLLEGE DUNLEARY HARBOUR Bills withdrawn. COLLEGE LANDS MORTGAGE BRISTOL TOWN DuEs—Petitions from Bath and Wotton '- under-edge. against-40 lie on,the table. JUDICATURE (Scotland) BlLL—Petition .of Clerks of the Court of Teinds, for compensation—to lie on the table. DISTILLERY BlLL—Petitiop, from Wolverhampton; against —to lie on the table. COMBINATION LAWS.-.....TW0 Petitions against—to lie on the table; and one againstreferred to the Select Committee. PRISON LAWS.(lreland)BiLL—Petition from Physicians of Cork, against—to lie on the table. UvIVERSITIES PoLic— Bill " for the better preservation of the peace and good order in. the Universities of England," read a first time, to be read'a second time on Monday next, and to be printed. . . Twat. OF PEERS (Scotland)—Bill read a first time, to be read a second time on Thursday next, and to be printed. HORSES SLAUGIITERING—BiII "to amend an Act of 26th, i' George 111. for regulating . houses for the slaughtering of horses," read a first time, to be read a second time Lora Tuesday next, and to be printed.- , NOTICES of MOTIONS, and ORDERS of the DAY, which now stand on the ORDER-BOOK of the ROUSE of COMMONS, foi the ENSUING WEEK. Monday, June 6. ORDERS OF THE DAT. 1. Sewers Laws Amendment Bill-Second reading. - ' - 2. Customs Laws Repeal Bill,Further consideration of Report. 3. Customs Management Bill-Further consideration of' Re port. 4. Navigation Laws Bill-Further consideration - of Report. - 5. Customs Regulation Bill-L-Ferther consideration of Report. 6. .Smuggling Prevention -Bill-Further consideration of Re port. , .. . 7. Goods Warehousing Billie Further consideration of Report. 8. Isle of Man Trade Bill-Further consideration of Report. 9. Registry of Ships Bill-Committee, . .. 10. Customs Bounties Bat-Further consideration of Report. 11. Colonies Tiade Bill-Second reading. 12. Duke of .Cumberland's Annuity Bill-Committee. 13. Townland - Boundaries (Ireland) Bill-Committee. - • 14. Church Rates (Ireland) Bill-Committee. • .. 15. Lunatic Asylums (Ireland)-Report thereupon. 0 16. Courts of Justice (Scotland)-Second reading. 17. Passage Vessels Regulation Bill,-Second reading. 18. Moore's Divorce Bill-Committee; Counsel and Witnesses , . 19. Supply-Report. 20. Supply-Committee. .21. Mauritius T • .de Bill-Committee. , v o _, 22. Assimilation of the Currency Bill-Committee. - 23. Customs Consolidation Act-Further conskleratioa of Re port. . - 0 • . • • • . , 24. Lowland - Churches (Scotland)-Committee. 25. Colonial IntercoUrse Bill-Third reading. 28. Exchequer Court (Ireland) Bill-Committee. 27. Pirates Head Money Bill-Report. 28. Supply-Report (25th April) [Postponed Resolution.] R 29. Deceased Officers Effects Bill-Committee. • 30. Duchess of Kenen.Annuity Bill-Report. . .. 31. Judicature (Scotland)lill-Further consideratioe of Re' port.. , s Aliment of Prisoners . (Scotland) Bill-Third reading. Shooting,and Stabbing (Scotland) Bill-Third reading. Columbia Postage Bill-Thirdeading. Supply-Report‘(3oth May). :.. , ~• Lunatic Trustees Bill-Coinnaittee. - Ways and Means. Report. - , Ways and Means-Comtnittee. . . Cotton Mills Regulation Bill-Third reading. Survey of Townlands (Ireland)-Report thereupon. . Pilotage Bill-Committee. s Univevities Police Bill-S'econd reading. . West Indies, Clergy-Committee thereupon. NewspapersConeeyance , to .the Colonies---Committee there upon. ' . NOTICE OF MOTION. Mr. Ferries—Bill to prohibit the circulation of Irish Bank Tokens. Tuesday, June 7. NOTICES OF MOTIONS. 1. 11Ir. Syles—Reduction of the Duty on Soap and Ta Candles. 2. Sir Francis Burdett.—.Evidence taken before Commissione r/ appointed to inquire into the Court of Chancery. 3. Mr. Secretary Peel—Bill to correct the practice of fictitioui Writs of Error. ORDERS OF TILE DAY. 1. Peter's Divorce Bill—Committee- . 2. Excise Measures Regulation Bill—Committee. 1. Labourers' Wages Bill—Committee. 4. Distillery Bill—Further consideration of Report. b. East India Jtidges Bill—Further consideration of RePor t ' 6. Felonies Counsel Bill—Second reading. 7. Slaughtering of Horses Bill—Second reading. . Wednesday June 8. . NOTICE OF. MOTION. Mr. Dickinson—Bill for the summary punishment of co mon Assaults. Thursday, June 9. • NOTICE OF 3IOTION. Mr. Hume—Bill to' amend Acts regarding the discipline ° r f ' the Navy; also. regarding power at present exercised ~ Flogging without Cousts Martial. ORDER OF THE DAY. Trial of Peers (Scotland) Bill—Second reading. Friday, June 10. • ORDERS OP TAIVDAY. • 1. Spring Gas Bill—Second reading, 2. Gardens Protection Bill—Second reading. `3. Poor Relief (Ireland) Bill—Second res,diag.. . 4. Cruel Treatment of Cattle Bill—Second leading: 5. County. Transfer.of Land - Bill;—Committee. 6. Church Lands Exchange Bill—Committee. 7. British Consuls JlM—Further consideration of Report'. PIdIVATE Secordßeodings for Monday. dee" St. Olave(Hart-street)'fithei; Clare Hill;Lau and Earl of Radnor's Estates; St. Martin (Birmingham) ; and De Duck's Naturalization. ;o'' The Annual Meeting. of the NATio-N , "' .-; ICS CIETY for the EDUCATION of the Popu, in t h e prina t ,,.# of the Established Church, was held yesterday at the Sociev'r Room, Lincoln's-Inn-fields ; the Archbishop of CAl`r r d o n, BURY in the Chair, supported by the Bishops of lAn eor tb Landaff, Down and Connor, Chichester, Chester, 0%,.10p. and Gloucester ; • Lord Kenyon, &c. &c. The b ad' ness commenced by the Secretary (Doctor Walmsley), L e o ing the Report, which stated that the collections lutl it ed: made, in consequenc e of th e Kin g 's l e tter, aniou ill, to 28,280/. ; that the number of - schools conn e cted with th e .ow stitution amounted to 21,095; and the number of perons„`,ooo. cated at these schools was 356,000 b e i n g an increase of i" 4 ,„v on the.whole since the last report. The Treasurer, Mr' t ol son, having read his report, stated that the clear balanc e hi gy , in his hands was 16.000/. - The Archbishop of 'Cantes' the in moving that the repo r t be p r inted, said, that this vP s t ion' fourteenth report since the commencement of the Ins tltu t o! .He observed that schools increased as churches increased .t 4 , fi vo without schOols• churches would not be: filled, withal i,„,a churches schools would not a v a il. General. Th o rnton , nio if; •Kenyon, and the Bishops of Chester, London, and 1 ,,_ °, 0) 0 4 ! addressed the meeting ; after which thanks were vOt,er Chairman, and the meeting.separet4 ' % ;•:: • • . • • '.