The Sun. — London, England, 1831-01-18 00:00:00

DUTCH PAPERS. THE. HAGUE, JAN. Majesty has within these few days signed a Resolution, by which the Flemish and Antwerp fishermen, who have hitherto had the privilege of fi. , hing in the waters of Zealand and in the Scheldt, shall no longer enjoy this pet mission. Some armed vessels will be employed to enforce this measure. Last Friday the armistice was broken by the in surgents in Flanders, 50or 60 of them having passed our frontiers. A detachment of troops from Ha:- denberg was sent, and soon fell in with them. Fifty paces from the frontiers the insurgents fired on on: troops, who instantly returned the fire, on which the insurgents fled. We had a serjeant-major killed and a private wounded. The loss of the Belgians is said to be five killed and seven wounded. Most of the armed individuals who had this skirmish with our patrole were inhabitants of Maldeghem in East Flanders. (From the Journal de la Hague.) THE HAGLIE, JAN. 13.—Just as we are going to press, we are assured that a coulter, who arrived in the night from London, was the bearer of a Proto col, enjoining the Belgians to make their troop , re sume the positions which they occupied on the 21st of November last, and expressing great dissatisfac• Lion at the violation of the suspension of arms by their attempts on Maestricht. The news, if ma, will probably suspend for the present the move ment of our brave troops. BOIS.LE-DUC, JAN. 12.—The troops forming the army in the field are for the present in cantonMents at Valkensward, &c. The whole number is not less than 13,000 men. On the news of the ap proach of our troops the insurgents have withdrawn such of their bands as were the nearest to our fron tiers. It is reported that the Belgians have pro- vide(' Muaseyk with cannon, and taken lip the pave merit, probably to be able to resist in case of an expedition against Venloo. On our part no efforts are spared. ANISTERDAM, JAN. 14.—Actual Debt, Two and Hall per Cent., 401 41 ; Awort Synd., Four and Half per Cent., 65 651 ; Ditto ditto Three and a Half per Cent., 5?, 52i. Exchange on London, 11 85 ; Two Months, 11 77 s.lo.—Dutch Papers, Jan. 15. ST. PETERSBURGH, DEC. 31.—His Excellency Field-Marshal Diebitsch left the capital yesterday. The Minister of the Interior, by his Majesty's orders, has prescribed measures for the purification of merchandise. The Minister of the Interior announus that the cholera has ceased in the Governments of Vladi mir, Nishnei Novogorod, and Simbirsk, and that the communication with those Governments is re establ shed. The disorder having also ceased in the town of Charcow, the cordon has been removed. All due precaution continues to be taken. AIOSCO W. New case. Deatl.9. Recovered. 25 10 5 3 26 13 8 13 8 0 On the 2Sth, in the morning, there remained 85 eases, of whom 45 were expected to recover. The Emperor, by an Order of the Day of 25th December, was pleased to testify to the Grand Duke Michael, as Commander of the Guards, satisfaction with the perfect order in every particu lar which his Majesty observed on the parade of the Finland Regiment of the Guards, and also his sa tisfaction with the Staff and superior officers, and ordered the subalterns and privates to receive a pound of fish and a ration of brandy per man.— St. Petersburg's Papers, Jan. 1. W.II2SAW, JAN. s.—The journals announce various appointments and promotions made by the Dictator. The Courier complains that the Government did not publish the proclamation of the Emperor of Russia as soon as it was received, but that the Poles first learned its contents from foreign journals. The late Vice-President Lubowidski, who was mortally wounded during the troubles in the Belve dere Palace, and was conveyed first to the hospital, and afterwards to his brother s, suddenly disappeared three days ago, and the place of his residence is not yet discovered.—Prussian Slate Gazette, Jan. 11. ST. PETERSBURGII, DEC. 25.—The army on the western frontiers of the empire will be neatly 200,000 strong. Part of the Guards have already left the city, and will form a corps of reserve near Wilna. Jn all the branches of the Administration the greatest activity is observed. Couriers hasten in all directions. The Emperor's camp equipage is get ting ready, and it is thought he will soon set out for the army. All the troops are hastening by forced marches to the Polish frontiers, and will as semble about Bialystock, which it is hoped they will do by the end of this month, as Count Die bitsch, when he arrived at Wilma, gave orders for the advancing of the army, without waiting for in structions from St. Petersburg's. This was doing a great service, as the season is so far advanced, and especially as the insurgents have no sufficient means of defence at present. The enthusiasm of the Rus sians is very great, and never was a war more popular. Several regiments that have already marched vowed at their departure destruction to the Poles. The Imperial Court partakes of this indiff nation,and if the Poles do not hasten to profit by the amnesty promised to those who return to their duty, their late will probably be tenible ; the Emperor is determined to make an example, and to prove to Europe that revolutions do not go unpunished,when proper measures are employed in time. GALLIcIA, DEC. 19.—Official news was yesterday received that the cholera had appeared at Tarnaoo, in (3-officio, three leagues on the side of the Russian frontiers, and that twenty persons were attacked. On this news a sanitary cordon has been formed about Lemberg. The Governor of Gallicia has not left Lemberg, as was reported ; but the measures adopted in that city show that some apprehensions are entertained in our portion of the kingdom of Poland.—Ham burgh Papers, JAB. 11. WARSAW, JAN. 4.—The Russian Proclamations have reoched us and have been published in our Pa pers. They have only increased the spirit of enthu siasm w hi c h prevails here. Some difference of opi nion nevertheless js said to have manifested itself in the Council, several Members of which are desirous of waiting the issue of the Deputation to St. Pe tersburgh. Others, among whom is the Dictator, maintains that nothing satisfactory is to be hoped from this Deputation, and recommend the imme diate adoption of offensive measures. 011 the 16th ult, some troops left Warsaw for the frontiers of Lithuania, where they are intended to effect a divi sion, and to afford an opportunity of useertainitig the disposition of the inhabitants on the border, as also the feeling of the Lithuanian corps on beholding their brothers marching under the banner of liberty. HAMBURG, JAN. 1 I.—BORSEN-HALLE.—Priedit are higher than on Friday, but lower than yesterday, the fall in the French Funds having depressed our market to-day. A good deal has been done at the quotations below. Discount 3 and 34 per cent.: — End of January. Anglo-Danish Loan, 3 per cent Anglo-Russian Loan Bi y Hamburg-Russian Loan B 6';'S Potish Bonds New Prussian 4 per Cents Austrian Bank Shares Austrian Metalliques B9 New Austrian 4 per Cents 781; New Hanoverian Loan • Reporter, Jan. 11. - EXCNANOYS ON L wl t nox.—llanib u rg Jr.A 11, 13 'rwo Mon hg , 13 51.—Peter,Lurgl, D ee . 31, 10 ; 1. Bremen, JAIL 7, Two Months, 595. Deihl), Jan 8, Three Months, 6204. The 27th Itegirrient is daily expected here from Barbldoes ; they will be lidlowed by the 35th Urgi went.—llampshire Taryraph. The will of the late Mrs. FORD, of Hyde Park-place, has been proved by her daughter, the Duchess of CANNAZZAILO, (late Countess SAN ANTONIO), by which she receives upwards of 80,0001. and an annuity of 1,000/., independent of the princely fortune of her late brother, JAMES JOHNSTONE, EST, by whom she WIS ap pointed sae legatee. The annuity settled on Mrs. Four), which was considerable, reverts to the family of the late Cara;:v,:iore JOHNSTONE; by whom ;t was settled on firs. BERKSHIRE REFORM MEETING. A public meeting of the freeholders and residents of the county of Berks was held yesterday at the Town-hall, at Reading, pursuant to a requisition addressed to the High Sheriff, for the purpose of considering the propriety of petitioning the Legislature for Reform in Parliament. The meeting, was numerous, and highly respectable. At twenty minutes past twelve the High Sheriff came on the bench, accompanied by the Ea!! of Radnor, and was received by the meeting with applause. There were also present Mr. Dundas and Mr. R. Palmer the Mem bers for the county ; Mr. F. Palmer and Mr. Russell, the Members for the town of Reading; Mr. Monek, Mr. W. Hallett, Dr. Mitford, Mr. Marsh, and a considerable number of other gentlemen connected with the county. W. HA ',LET, Esq., proposed that the High Sheriff be requested to take the Chair. Dr. MITFOLD seconded this resolution, which was ear -1 ied nein. dis. The HIGH SHERIFF then read the requisition, pursuant to which he had convened the meeting. Mr. W. HA LLET then came forward and addressed the meeting.—Mr. High Sheriff, and Gentlemen of the county of Berks, I hold in my hand it petition to the Legislature which I shall, at the conclusion of what I have to address to von, move be read and submitted for your approval— and I shall afterwards move that the High Sheriff be re quested to sign it on behalf of the meeting. Gentlemen, after the tragical scenes we have witnessed in this and neighbouring counties, as also in some more remote, and which, I am sorry to say, are not yet all over, it would ill become me to take up your time in giving utterance to any thing which would tend to excite the public mind. That shall not be my task. My wish and object would be to south the public mind, and to allay irritation, ra ther than excite it.—(Hear, hear. )-1 take the present state of the country to be like that of a ship which is got amongst shoals and rocks, has a storm impending, and is also on fire in several places. I take it, that un der such a condition of the vessel, it would not be a proper time for the crew to fall out amongst themselves. The object of their inquiries and efforts should not be how the ship got into those difficulties, but how it was to get out of them.—(Hear, hear.)—Our duty on the pre sent occasion should be something similar, Gentlemen, I have not been, for a long time, in the habit of compli menting Midsters—(Hear)—and I do not stand up hire to do so now ; but I think I may fairly say, that the pre sent Ministry deserve some compliment, as they have been the only set of men who have entered office with the broad avowal of Reform, of retrenchment, and of that principl, of non-interference in the internal concerns of other countries, the observance of which affords the best security that there will be no disturbance of the peace of our own.—(Hear, hear.)—Gentlemen, the petition about to be read to you is so drawn up, that lam satisfied no person here will think it too complimentary, considering what we know of the existing state of representation. We Reformers have been tubl that we are visionary men, dealing in vague and general theories, and not reducing them to any thing practical ; and we have also been told, that neither my Lord Grey nor my Lord Lansdowne will consent to any kind of Reform which may have the effect of disturbing the country. It is to meet the objections thus raised that I have used these words. I want to show that we are all agreed upon, and that all we want is, a rational, practical, and efficient Reform. The word practical," too, I have kept in for this additional reason —that it was the word used by Mr. (now Lord) Brougham, at the public dinner given at Leeds, on hi, return for the county of York. lie then professed himself a practical Reformer, because, as he said, he was a practical man. Now, I have retained the word to show that %% e also arc practical men, and that all we want is practical Reform. Lord Brougham is no doubt, a practical man, and these is, I think, as little that he . will make very good Lord Chancellor. He will certainly have plenty of practice on his hands, if he follows up his opi nions recorded these twenty years back on this and other impottant subjects ; but after what he has expressed on this in particular, I must own I should like to see what sort of a measure it is he would produce. The Noble Lord is now in Chancery, and I hope his opinions about practical Reform are not there also ; for, if so, I fear they will never getout.—(Hear, hear.)—l remember, when Lord (then Mr.) Grey presented the celebrated petition for Reform in 1793. lam the same age as his Lordship, and therefore remember it well. In that petition it was stated, and proof of it offered at the bar, that 154 Peels and Commoners returned by their direct influence a de cided majority of the House of Commons. Now I must sly, that unless we have such a Reform as will destroy . . . . _ that system of representation, it will not be what I would call efficient Befot m.—(llear, hear.)—There are many other points which might be touched upon relating to this subject, but those I have mentioned are the chief. I per ceive my Lord Grey has expressed an opinion hostile to the principle of universal suffrage. He did not enter upon the question of vote by ballot, awl from that I am induced to hope, that he has not yet finally made up his mind re specting it. However, the former is a point I would not press now. I think we should act unwisely to grasp at too much at once, lest, perchance, we should lose all.— (Hear, hear.)—l am told, that when a man becomes a Member of Parliament, he becomes a representative of the whole nation. So he may, I admit, for many purposes; but I deny that he is the representative of all in respect of taxation. To a man of plain common sense like myself, it becomes hard to conceive how a person who should stop me at Hounslow, and take my purse by force, can be considered my representative. Ile may be a self-appointed deputy to spend it, but he certainly is not my representative. On the subject of vote by ballot I shall only farther state, that by the Bill of Rights it is declared that the election of a Member of Parliament shall be free. Now I ask, how can that man be said to be a free elector whose choice is constrained in any one way ? The fear of disobliging his landlord, or his influential neighbour, or an old friend, if it Operates upon him so as to give a direction to his vote which it would not receive from his own un biassed choice, is constraint, and while it exists he cannot be said to be a free elector. The Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to other points, by which he thought a remedy 'night be afforded to the distress of the country, first observ ing, that as to universal suffrage, he held the principle that there was no right to taxation without representation.— What he was about to propose to the meeting was something mild of his own. It would nut have done sonic years ag6; but, now that something must lee don.," to relieve the country, he would point out what would do so in his opi nion. He would begin by reduction—ample and effectual reduction—of the public burdens; for the nation might be starved if they were to wait to inquire what could be done by cutting off a little here and a little there. He would re duce the burdens of the country by a sum of 20,000,0001. at once. This would relieve the country, and would at the same time relieve the Ministers, for it would give them time to look about them.. Then the question was, how this sum was to he obtained? Why, he might observe that the Ministers of this country found nu difficulty in raising hundreds of millions to carry on a war, and he thought there could be stilt less in raising it to assist the country in time of peace, and to relieve her froni sonic of the effects of the War. Ile would not, however, have Government go to the 'Change, or to 'Change-alley. It had gone there often enough—a little too often. Such a relief from taxation as this would afford would be quite a jubilee fur the country. We should hear no more of riots or destruction of machines, for the people would have plenty of work, and they would attend to it. The relief thus afforded would be sufficient to remit all assessed and excise taxes for one year. Then the question was how they should get the money ? Ile would not, he repeated, go to the 'Change for it—he would go to the Commis sioners for the reduction of the National Debt, and see what money they had got in hand—he believed it was 200,0001.—(A Noble Lord (Radnor) near, corrected him, and said it With nearer 200,000,0001.)-11 that were so, he would ask what sum of that could be sold in the market in order to produce the sum he had mentioned. But he would not go there at first ; he would go to the Court of Chancery, where upwards of 40,000,000/. were locked up, much of it riot likely ever to be claimed. He would try whether he could not borrow 20,000,000/. of this sum from the Accountant-General, which should be secured and repaid in due time. Ile next stated, as another mode of assisting the country, that he would employ part of the military force in clearing the New Forest, which was now almoit useless to the country, and make it available to cult - vation to an immense extent. Ile would also have a tax on real property : but he did not mean an income tax, but a tux on all tangible property—on lauded estates, on money in the funds, mid on mortgages. It was well known how county rates (which would be unusually large this year) pressed very heavily on the landed interest. They had also to pay poor-rates. Now he would make the property of others who were equally interested in the peace of th e country liable to these assessments. Ile would noPke all pay who derived protection and benefit. It was said that the King of France had immense stnni in our funds, because he felt they could he nowhere more secure. Ile should pay for that protection, as well as the holder of (eller property in the country. This was only reasonable. What was the use of the match of intellect if the country I (lid not ge t some relief in this w a y ? A n d if Ministers did not afford some effectual relief, they ought to lie sent to the right about. One Word as to the poor. Ile re peated that he did not mean to say any thing which would • tend to create excitement ; but he must say, that in must parts of the country, the poor were not treated with that kindness and attention which was calculated to beget a proper feeling on their part towards the rich. It was but too tine that the good feeling which ought to exist between the two classes had been weakened. He would not enter into the cause ; he stated the fact. He would now come to another point on which he had not vet touched. The poor were distressed for fuel. In Dorsetshire and Devon shire the poor had nothing to do but to dig for Turf. In times of yore, before the country was civilized, any one mi g ht take wood for the fire wherever he could get it. In later times he might dig turf whether be had a right of turbary or net. There was nothing of this any longer. He would call the attention of the farmer to the condition of the poor, and would ask him whether his woods and plantations were now safe or no? Did wt the farmer suffer injury from his cattle trespassing into the grounds of others? and was it owing to any other cause than that the poor had broken down his fences? They were now induced to begin a career of crime to obtain fuel : they took that which did not belong to them ; and therefore, in a moral point of view, it was expedient to furnish them with this first necessary of life. There was a charitable society at New. bury, which provided the poor with fuel at prime cost : there was a A imilar society in that town, and elsewhere in the county. Many of the rich, too, he believed, were kind to the poor ; but take the country through, and they had no fuel. How would he provide them with this ar ticle ? His first fund—for he had several—would be de- rived, supposing the Reform Bill to pass, from the money accruing from the certificates fo voting. Letting them pay sixpence in the pound fur those certificates : that was no great sum. But as they deprived the poor of the right ,of voting, they ought to give them fuel instead. It was his decided conviction, that the poor would rather have this advantage than the right of voting. That was one of his funds. Another would be the produce of the game certificates. Last year they produced 2,0001. hr that county that sum would have been better spent among the poor of Berkshire than in London. Then there was another consideration, for he was looking to conciliate the minds of the poorer classes. In former days a poor man might destroy any wild animal at his pleasure, but now he could do no such thing. If a poor man saw a rich man enjoying his spot t, he would say, " All is right: he pays his Si. ISs. 6d. for fuel-tax, which will keep me warm in the winter." He would also give the poor the produce of the dog-tax. When a poor man saw a lady walking with a fat profile, he was inclined to say, " That dog is better clothed and fed than I am ;" but he would forget such notions when he received benefit i❑ the shape of tax from the dog. This would soften the minds of the lower orders. Besides, if licences were taken out, that would also be one of his funds. He would also take the penalties on cuts and waggons ; and, last of all, he would call upon the clergy of the Established Church, and also of all Dissenting Con gregatisns, to give him four charity sermons a year.—(A laugh. )—This had made a great impression on his mind, and he hoped that it would produce still more in other quarters, when taken up by abler hands than his own. He thanked the meeting for the attention with which they had listened to him ; and concluded by reading a petition for " practical, rational, and efficient Reform in the repre sentation of the people in the Commons House of Parlia ment." He the❑ moved that the petition be adopted as the petition of the meeting. Mr. Ersros; seconded the petition. his flop. Friend, Mr. Hallett, had detailed his views on various questions of', hefoim ; he should confine his to a narrower compass.' He would state at once that he wished to restore the an cient Constitution without abandoning its ancient land marks. His lion. Friend had entered upon financial views, and talked of the amount of the national debt. Now if, 40 years ago, when Mr. Pitt brought forward his plan of Reform, or afterwards, when Mr. Flood pro posed his, in 1790, an efficient Reform had been effected, we should have heard nothing of the 200,000,000/. of debt, regarding which his Hon. Friend had spoken, nor of the enormous amount of taxes which the country had now to pay. It was indisputable, that if we had had a rational Reform, we should have had no expensive and unnecessary wars,—we should have had no frightful and expensive loans,—we should have had none of that lavish and profuse expenditure which we had wasted on all the pauper nations of Europe,—we should have had none of those innumerable pensions which defaced the Civil List, —we should have had none of those palaces rising out of marshy grounds foe none to inhabit,—we should have had no Lord Camden returning, 160,000/. to the Exchequer, • for he would never have been placed in a situation to re fund such a sum, for he would never have bee❑ allowed to receive it—( Hear)—we should have had no Prince Leo pold receiving .50,000/. a year, for though he would have received a proper remuneration, he would not have been paid in that extravagant style. It was unneces sary to go further into these details, for they were too well known to require repeti . ion.—(Hear, hear.) — He would revert to the old custom of the Constitution— triennial Parliaments. But before triennial Parliaments. were restored, he should wish to see many preliminary ar rangements. Much ought to be done to reduce the ex. pence of elections,—much ought to be done to put dow❑ bribery,—much ought to be done to extinguish the evil influence of corruption. Then came the question of bal lot. Oa that question he would not touch at present. He was not yet prepared to give his assent to it. If it would introduce a more perfect and more general liberty into elections, he would give it his support. It would appear flow what he had already said that he seas friendly to an effectual, and rational, and practical Reform in Parliament, anti he was friendly to it because he was an enemy to revo lution.—(Cheers.) Mr. IlAr.err said, that when he had last addressed them, be had been guilty of a slight omission. lie hail congratulated the meeting on the acces.ion to power of a Ministry pledged to Reform. He ought to have gone fur ther ; he ought to have congratulated it on possessing a Sovereign not unfriendly to it.—(Cheers.)—He believed the people might now say, " We have a friend at Court." —(Cheers.)—The Ministers had now free scope for action. There s%ould be no intrigue at Court to displace them. Mr. 'F. Bowfxs, of Milton-hill, observed that the Bri- tish Government was said to consist of King, Lords, and Commons ; but had the country a House of Commons fully and fairly representing the people ? Between the people and the House of Commons there should be, as Mr. Pitt had said in the best days of his best opinions, a com plete sympathy. When he had given them a rough sketch of the detects Of that House as at present constituted, he thought that they would agree with him that it was so constituted as not to be a faithful organ of public opinion. Look at the different classes of our boroughs. In one class the election is managed by a snug junta, as at Bath where the elective franchise is confined to the members of the Corporation. As three-fourths of that Corporation con sist of medical men, it is a common saying that the mem bers for Bath are returned by a Gallipotocrucy.—(A loud laugh.)—.ln another class, the Members are nomin .ted and returned by the aristocrac:„ as at Newark, where Mr. Sadler is the Member, and the Duke of Newcastle the patron. In a third class, an individual goes rotted, and puts it certain sum of money into the pockets of the con stituents. This was done at Wallingford, through the agency of a person called the Miller. In the fourth class there was an immense population, without a representative, and in a fifth there were representatives without any population at all.—(Cheers.)—Now was it to be endured that the barren walls of Old Sarum, and the grass-grown streets of Newton, should return representatives to Parlia ment, whilst the large and populous towns of Birmingham, Manchester, and Leeds, were without representatives ? Having given them a rough sketch of some of the spots in our representative system, he would coufine himself within narrower limits for the future, arid look intrely at some of the abuses in the representation of counties. Were he to take an extreme case, he would fix upon Core wall but he wished to act fairly, and he would therefore go to the neighbouring county—Surrey. Surrey returned 11 Members to Parliament. There were two for the county, two for Southwark, and two for Guildford. As to the manner in which Members were elected in those places, he had nothing to siy, as they were elected by the people : but as to the manner in which they were elected in the other boroughs of that county, he must say a word or two. Lord Lonsdale returned the two Members fur Haslemere ; Lord Monson, the two Members for Gatton; Lord S.rners, oae of the Members for Reigate, and Lord Hardwicke the other ; and Mr. Russell returned the two Members for Bletchingley. Thus, out of the 14 Mem bers of the county of Surrey, six only represented the opi nions of the people, and eight the opinions of those who nominated them.—(Great cheers.)—Let it never be for gotten that the House of Commons was originally consti tuted to be a cheek an the Crown, and that it was the duty of the people to take care that it should not become an accomplice wills that power which it was intended to confront, in checking the people. In 1523, Lord John Russell had brought forward a motion on Par liamentary Reform, and in the speech which he made upon that occasion, he stated that 290 Members of the House of Commons were chosen by ❑o more than 17,000 elec,ors; that is to say, more than half the representa tives of the people of England were returned by a popula tion not greater than that of the town of Reading. One of the objections raised against Parliamentary Reform by some of its more moderate and candid opponents, who admit the representative system to be defective in theory, if, that in practice it is mast excellent. They-produce, as pruuf of it, our great capital, our manufacturing skill, oar comparativ e happiness ; but they east a veil over our 800,000,0001. of debt, and enormous burden of taxation. The worthy gentleman here took a general review of some of the most frequent objections to Reform, and observed, that one of the best reasons for supporting Reform was, its tendency to prevent revolution. lie was convinced that the tremendous convulsion which had agitated a neigh bouring country would neverhave occurred had the Govern ment acceded at an early period to the moderate claims which were demanded from it. Mr. Canning, who was doubtless a bitter enemy of Reform, though the promoter of a liberal policy in other respects, had asked with a triumphant sneer, at what period of our history had the nation been better represented than it was at present ? To that question the late Mr. Ricardo at once answered, " Never ;" but he added that, though the nation had been never better represented than at present, there was a necessity that it should be represented better still, in order to let the system keep pace with the improved spirit of the times. That system had been said " to work well." How it " worked well," he would give them an example. A nobleman is the proprietor of two boroughs. If he pre fers his own interest to the love of his country, Ice goes to the Minister, places the four votes at his disposal, and then demands a compensation. The question then is, what is to be the compensation ? He says, " I have four sons un provided for : the eldest must have a commission given him iu the army ; the second must have a commission in the navy ; the third is in the church, and must have the first Crown living that falls vacant ; as to the fourth, he must have some snug sinecure in the Treasury department, suf ficient to maintain him at his ease as a gentleman. " Thus, in this way, " the system works well :" it " works well" for the Minister, who gains four votes by it,—it " works well" for the borough-proprietor, whose family is pro vided for by it; but the country,smarting under its wrongs, raises its indignant voice, and with unanimous shouts calls for Reform.—(Cheers.) He congratulated the meeting upon having at last the prospect that that call would not be in vain ; for the country now ha I a Ministry pledged to Reform and unsparing retrenchment.—(Cheers.) Mr. GILCHRIST could not go the lengths of confidence which the petition was inclined to go, in the present Ministers, for he knew that those who were Whigs when out were apt to resemble Tories when in. —(Cheers and laughter.) And in looking at the doings of the present Administration, he must say that he had not the confidence which he could wish to have in Earl Grey. He thought that men who were pledged, as Ministers were, to the amelioration of the criminal code, should not have acted on a blind and barbarous criminal code, the offspring of feudal ignorance, but ill suited to snore enlightened times, and have hanged up poor men by the neck until they were dead.—(Great cheering.) Ile blamed the Administra tion for the excessive severity with which they had en• forced laws which ought not to exist.—(Great cheering.) Surely, those who spoke so well on the necessity of amend ing the criminal laws, should not have enforced laws which they had often condemned as too severe—(Cheers) but should have superseded them by milder and suture hu mane and snore merciful inflictions.—(Cheery.) The Administration by their recent conduct had placed itself iu opposition to the amiable sympathies of a whole people.— (Cheers. ) If they thought to rule the country in this way, they Wight as well get a Jefferies from the dead to help them in a thousand special commissions.—(Cheering, mingled with a slight hiss.) lie would not dwell upon the necessity which existed for a Parliamentary Reform ; every thing proved it. If the people had had a full and fair representation in the Commons House of Parliament, should we have had a succession of extravagant and waste ful, and profligate Ministers ? Should we have had a succession of unnecessary, and bloody, and expensive wars ? Should we, have had an enormous mass of debt weighing down the nation, cramping all its energies, and preveuriug the possibility of its restoration to prosperity? Should we have had such a load of taxes as those which now oppressed us ? Why, the very light of Heaven is taxed—windows are taxed, candles are taxed, malt is taxed, soap is taxed, and bread is taxed.—(A laugh, and cries of " hear.")—lf we had had a full and fair repre sentation of the people, should we have had a tax on malt and on every other necessary amide of life ? Should we have had a systetn of laws so framed, that wise men pre fer submitting to an injury to seeking redress for it under a long, tortuous, and an expensive process ?—(Great cheering.)—Should we have had a criminal code, which was put to shame by the late proceedings in France, or a special commission, with all the melancholy scenes which had preceded and:followed it ?—(Cheers.)—That they would have a speedy Reform he had no doubt. Lord Grey was too far pledged not to do something on the sub ject very soon ; but that that something would satisfy the expectations of the people, or that the Reform to be pro posed would be an effectual Reform, he was, he con fessed, rather disposed to doubt. He had snatched a few moments just before he came there to scratch down the heads of the sort of petition which he though ought to be presented to Parliament. With the permission of the meeting he would read it to them.—[Here the Hon. Member read a very long petition, the principal part of which was occupied with arguments in favour of the sys tem of voting by ballot.]—The petition was received with much cheering. The Earl of RADNOR. should in any case have been anxious to address a few words to the meeting before it separated, but that he was particularly anxious to offer himself to their notice at that moment in consequence of the speech they had just heard from Mr. Gilchrist. In a very great part of that speech he himself concurred, but in some part of it he did not concur, and his object in what he had to say to the meeting now, his endeavour would be to persuade them to adopt the original petition, and not the amendment of Mr. Gilchrist. Before he noticed the various topics upon which that gentleman had touched, he must be allowed to make somewhat of a com plaint against Mr. Gilchrist, for his having introduced on this occasion, and by a side wind, a question of so much difficulty as that of the infliction of capital punishments unquestionably was.—(Cheers.)—He entertained opinions, decided and long made up on the subject of Reform, but with regard to capital punishmenta, he had not canvassed that question so long, nor thought upon it so deeply ; and he was not therefore prepared to give his opinion upon it in the way in which every man ought to give his opinion on such a subject. He had to complain, likewise, of Mr. Gilchrist for the manner in which he had vitupe rated the present Administration. For his own part, he had never been very much inclined to repose great confi dence in any set of men. With regard to the present Administration, he gave to the members of it that confi dence which was justified by the personal knowledge he happened to have of many of the members of it ; and that confidence would be confirmed or overthrown by time acts of the Administration.—(Cheers.) —He must say that, in his opinion, the Ministers were not a little hardly dealt with when they were stigmatized as cruel and sanguinary goternors.—(Cheers.)—lt ought not to be forgotten that the present Administration came into office finding the country in mutter confusion, and that before they were warns in their seats they' were called upon for immediate exer tions in order to put down riotous and alarming proceed ings of great extent. What time, what opportunity, he would ask, had men so circumstanced to deliberate upon time question of capital punishments and the reformation of the criminal code ? They had taken the law as they found it : they had sent Judges of the land to admiuister that law ; and those learned persons had passed such sen tences as the oaths by which they were bound called upon them to pass.—(Cheers.)—And now to pass from this subject, and to come to the petitions before them. He should choose the moderate petition in preference to the stronger one, although the latter might be more in accordance with his sentiments; fur, if lie asked for all he desired,—fur all that, in his opinion, ought to be granted, —he should take up a very disadvantageous position : whereas, by asking only for what was reasonable, he de prived the adversaries of the cause of their strongest hold, and of their most favourite and powerful weapons. The two petitions before them were in substance the same in many parts, only the one was more strongly expressed than the other. Let them, he besought them, consider in what condition the Ministers were placed. Lord Grey was not a foolish 1)4911-Lord Grey way 110 t a man em barking now for the first time in political transactions ; no, his Lordship Was a man of ability, of powerful under standing, and of acknowledged integrity, and both he and his colleagues knew, for they had openly declared it, that the country would not be satisfied without an effectual Reform. Well, was it nut then the interest of the Minis ters to give,or to try to give, to the people such a Reform ? How else could their Administration stand ? With what face otherwise could they ask for that, by which alone they had acknowledged that they could continue in office —the favour and support of the people?—(Cheers;. Unless they could persuade themselves that the Ministers were at once as foolish as dishonest, they must take it for .;ranted that the Government would attempt at least to give to the people such a system of Reform as they had themselves declared would alone satisfy the people. He might press these considerations upon the ineetieg with out any fear of being misunderstood, for it was, very_ well .. known that be went great lengths on the subject of form. He had often stated. to them that he was really a li n e d c t , r , u n l . y i d e e r r e a d d i v c o a t l e ße b f y or i t Ze would divide and purity of e lection—(Cheers) ...— a nd to opointion respecting it laughter.)— He IftZdt ss ere made. in favour of vate by ballot, if a pr Reformer.— a ( s C e i s te s c e r s: ' 3ll l s e cond had expressed his desire of reverting to the old Ahiguaighnt,,rl,7_wiaisis folcioann.nuFarlieLarliwshmoenst;o.-4. practices of the Constitution, and that, therefore, he was favourable to triennial Parliaments ; but his Hon. Friend should have recollected that the old practice of the Consti tution was, not triennial, but annual Parliaments, or ra ther sessional Parliaments—Parliaments which were called together for the occasion, and then dissolved, as at present they were adjourned and prorogued. This was the old practice of the Constitution. The id ea o f prorogu i ng a Parliament was invented in the time of Henry VIII., and the Parliament which first enjoyed the fruits of this in vention was the Parliament which voted that the King's Proclamation should have the force of law. This was enough to sicken him of the invention of those whose in genuity produced it. Then, again, he was for universal suffrage.—(Cheers, and laughter.)—He thought that every man ought to be represented—ought to vote for the election of Members of Parliament. The poorer a man was, the greater his right to this privilege ; for the poorer a man was, the more he stood in need of protection. Ile did not, of course, expect that this would form a part of any plan of Reform that would re ceive the assent of the Legislature. However, he did hope th it the rettea boroughs and self-elected corporations would be struck off with an unsparing hand. Certainly be, for one, should not be satisfied without this. Ile had stated these views of his, in order to show bow far he per sonally was inclined to go in Reform, and to prevent his being misunderstood, when he asked them to agree to the petition before them. Let them be contented for the present with what they could attain, and hope for more, perhaps for the rest, afterwards. These, then, were the grounds on whieh he supported the petition. Not that there were not some parts of the petition which, in his opinion, might be altered. For instance—the petition said that while men, and science, and knowledge of all kinds had been advancing, the Constitution had stood still. Now this he denied : the Constitution had not stood still, but gone back.—(Cheers and laughter.)—The people now were not nearly so well represented as they had been 100 years ago. The hare had been going at a great rate, it was true, but the tortoise had made no way at all; it had gone on slowly, it had positively stood still. In moving upon a subject like Reform, it was very possible that they might leap too far. Many persons were very nervous on this subject. For his own part, however, he was for a good jump, and he thought there was a great deal more probability of their jumping short than of their jumping too far.—(Cheers.)—(The Noble Lord sat down amidst loud and general cheering.) Mr. Moscx would not detain the meeting many rai nutes. To universal suffrage, with certain limitations, he was a friend. He was friendly, also, to vote by ballot— (Cheers)—but still he was anxious that the petition should be agreed to without introducing either. If the petition were carried in its present form, he would propose two resolutions, with regard to universal suffrage and vote by ballot ; and thus the opinion of the meeting would be taken upon these two points. Under these circumstances, he should advise his friend Mr. Gilchrist to withdraw his petition.—(Cheers.) Mr. HALLE"r said, that it was understood that such a petition should be drawn up as all would agree to ; and that he was sure that, from the candour which on former occasions he had observed in Mr. Gilchrist, that gentle man would consent to withdraw it. Mr. Maass( had now lived fifty years in the world, and for thirty of those years he had been a determined friend to Reform. He had had the honour of meeting many gentlemen on this subject, when Reform was by no means so fashionable as it was now, and when men who ventured to shake their heads at the Pitt system stood a very good chance of having those heads knocked off their shoulders. —(Cheers and laughter.) But now, if they excepted the head of the late Administration, no one was found bold enough to say that there should be no Reform. As to the details of any plan of Reform, there would of course be dif ferences of opinion with regard to them. The rich were very timid on this subject, because they had much to lose. Now as be happened to be a poor man, he, of course, was very bold upon the subject, and felt no fear at all.— (Cheers and laughter.) He must, however, say that this nation had, for a long time past, been too much in the habit of paying deference to large masses of wealth, and of taking it for granted that if a man had 10,000/. a year he was a wise man, and that, whether good or bad, he must make a very fit representative of the people, —nay, not only a fit representative himself, but that he was qualified also to dic tate to others whom they ought to send to Parliament. Now this he contended to be the very reverse of the Con stitution ; for one of the first principles of the Constitu tion was to afford protection to the poor man against op pression, by a system of fair representation in Parliament. He liked Mr. Gilchrist's courage and independence very much, and as truth was generally the result of collision of sentiments, he did not regret the manner in which Mr. Gilchrist had come forward to-day. They all knew the recommendation which Lord Chesterfield gave his son,— suaviter iu modo—fortiter in re ; and probably Mr. Hallet might, in drawing up this petition, have had too touch of the suavitcr in modo, at least in Mr. Gilchrist's opinion, although Mr. Hallet had never been much given to be mealy-mouthed. —(Cheers and laughter.) The fact was, that between Mr. Hallet and Mr. Gilchrist the dif ference was wholly iu the manner, and in nothing else.— Mr. Hallet knocked gently at the door of the House of Commons, and, walking up to the table in minuet step, said, " Gentlemen,—worthy gentlemen,—honourable gentle men,—be good eriough, we pray you, to lay aside this machine of corruption."—(Cheers and laughter.) But, on the other hand, Mr. Gilchrist bangs rudely atahe door, and flourishing a sledge-hammer, says, " Conie—out with your thrashing-machine, fur I am come to break it."— (Much laughter.) lids was a difference nut worth men , tioning. He liked the present candid and manly way of voting ; but, knowing the ruinous consequences arising from it, he was now an advocate for the ballot.— (Cheers.) Mr. GILCHRIST-After the candid and explicit remarks which he had that day heard from various speakers, had no objection to withdraw his amendment. He was sorry that among our Nobility the Earl of Radnor stood alone in this virtuous and patriotic career. Nu man could act as that illustrious Nobleman bad acted, without securing to himself the (stem and affection of all the best-judging and best-thinking men.—(Cheers.) Were all our Nobles such as be, they would live in the hearts of the people, and would have no occasion to seek protectiou either from a constabulary force or an armed yeomanry.—(Cheers.) Ile felt bound to submit to any suggestion coining from so enlightened and so patriotic a Nobleman.—(Cheers ) The petition of Mi. Millet was then put by the High Sheriff, and carried unanimously. On the motion of Mr. Hafer'', the High Sheriff was requested to sign it on behalf of the meeting. On the notion of Mr. MoNcx, the two Members for the county were desired to present and support the petition when presented to the House of Commons. Mr. DUNDAS should have great pleasure in presenting and supporting the petition in the House of Conmins. Mr. R. PALMER said, that after all that had been said on the details of Reform, it was only necessary for him to say at present that he thought it most desirable that.the great manufacturing towns should he represented in Parliament. It was unnecessary, he hoped, for Limn to say, that he should feel great pleasure in presenting this petition. The motion was then put and carried. l ea il althoug h L:: slacionsideration ' Mr. poxes, after congr,tulating the meeting upon the unanimity etloiantn ei ee : elia had now iiwhichttilititl to scaaml call their pe subject, a t t i ttieonbutui attention upon oo b na e e s n ,7iitct eitr carried, iowf cdoe s tit s al i di( detail not, and did not, of course, expect the same coincidence 'object, te l s'e r . t. . h' j of opinion. The nature of his resolution was this— namely, that the wages of labour being property, and property quite as much taxed as the profits of trade and the rents of I ind, ought to receive equal protection. Now protection could be given only by representation, and he should propose, tkerefore, that a certain number of the re presentatives of the people—not ex itn c it e l e ie d i i .G t e i tbr , r o::rt o i n i.ro e n: f a o .n r , e lv a b c ( l ) l county, or one hundred in the whole—should be chosen by universal suffrage. He had already told them that he was not friendly to universal suffrage in its utmost extent. lie agreed that number s ought not to be the basis of repre sentation; but in conceding this he must contend that property ought not either to be the basis of representation to the exclusion of all consideration of numbers. Ile need hardly remind the meeting that the wages of labour were as valuable to those who earned them as any gentleman s e‘ts,otartde property,u'a s to him an d; quiteth at t a h s e y nn weremuch i e n any other species of property. The Hon. sentsectoiofntialse s and Mr. Alonck to differ, as he li be " t t w s e a e y n t the y ni was po n n ot in t‘nvaosvelr the resolution. rcehseoeiruedionth.roughout his speech,h,e l i i i e d n u foun t a h l i l i y principle, it would be better not to take now, but to meet and debate it upon some future occasion. . Mr. Bunn seconded the resolution. loNcr felt himself bound in prudence to with. but e nough, and in his opinion draw the resolution, as he perceived that it was hardly likely to be favourably received. The resohition was then withdrawn. Mr. Athat he had no to call th e a tt ent i on of the , n l e n cN p'g said, to w. al resolution on t h e subject of vote by cheering.)—H e would not detain them by any arguments in favour of vote by ballot, but content Ithsiself with observing, that he had never yet heard more 'than two objections to it. The tint was, that it was an un-English, sneaking, and degrading system, and I tended to make men hypocrites. Let him, heweve' what could he more hypocritical, what more degr than the scenes which, under the present system' every day witnessed at elections, where men were bi up to vote for can did ates w h om t h ey d etes ted, t whom they were compelled to give their suffrages, b they would nut stand against the power of some rich ) hour, or landlord, or customer, who first called th ei grateful, and then reduced them to poverty, if 6 1 tared to vote accerding to th e di c t ates o f t h e i r c ol ° - -(Cheers.)—lt was quite clear that one of to r° must 1) done—either the franchi se mus t b e exten,,; tee II been po i Th em , The heu bein that he i Pretnotinl feelin g la g b y w , a lthough t he dam there not Prop er l y objects, ally than] sto wed u , On the for the [treat entl earl of I Th e in he had just proposed, or they must give the poor 0 tectiou of the ballot. He apprehended that it Nea le be said that there was any thing new in this prO: of votin g by b a ll o t, t h oug h t h at mo l e o f ta ki n g v° certainly not y e t b een app li e d to e l ect i ons f or MOM t Parliament in this country. In the ancient free rey a similar plan of voting was followed, and the the good of those times never fancied that there se s . thing degrading in the practice. Cicero himself, in' ing of his own election to the consulship, so far ft ° presenting it as humiliating, declared that the 0o secret voting was the only thing that could make in 4 , depend e nt. A not h er o bj ect i on to vote b y b a ll o t 1, it would de s t ro y th e fair influence of wealth I° He totally denied this assertion. On the contrarY,hi lieved that the introduction of vote by ballot W it t! ' the charact e r o f our ar i stocracy, b y s h ow i ng utility of wealth and station when unaccompanie d tue and good conduct.—(Choeri.)—The Hon. e , man then concluded by moving a resolution to t l ! i; that vote by ballot was the surest means of proYiv'. the free and independent exer c i se o f t h e e l ect i v e Pe t , Mr. EYSTON opposed the resolution. He was s it , of a club, at which a gentleman very well koc tti meant Mr. O'Connell,—was black-b a ll e d, a nd b e ; never forget the intrigues which were set on foot out who put in those black balls. The saute i ntr to find out how people had voted would, he tv follow every election. Mr. MARSH supported the resolution, observiel it had been found to answer extremely well in and that the late successes of the people of Frafie",, never have been achieved without the right of secre t o ; Had it not been! for vote by ballot in France, Pr' to lignac would have b een P r i me Mi n i ster st ill , and 0,00- head would not have been wh ere i t was-on his Mr. R. PALMER. was not at all satisfied thsei ballot would be productive of the benefits that 1 ' 0 described as likely to result from it. It was l i d that it might check individual bribery, b u t he tb () ;f , likely that bribery by the wholesale w o uld s till b e on in spite of the ballot. AR at present advised, t,; certainly vote against a proposition for taking ballot, it it were brought forward in the House of C'''ot and he thought it right to state this publicly. g e t r that a man who would oppress another for voting? ing to his conscience, deserved the str onges t rel ) ,v and he could appeal to all who heard him, ifl' e had ever used undue influence in much a matter/ of " No, no." "No one accuses you.") Mr. Gmcmaisr defended the vote by ballot. The Earl of RADNOR expressed his general ceP c in the arguments which Mr. Gilchrist had egi the petition which he had so h an d some ly W I What was it that the people of England wisher l , 3 fi by the system of ballot ?—Th a t ever y man shoe') he liked, without fear on the one hand, and witVi, tion on the other. How was that point to be There were some men inclined to punish every P e e d yy pendent on them who did not vote as they pleat was the power of such men to be frustrated? J 'n favoui vocated b offer a f e that thol b 'Hot n„ , salutary Friend (Mr. Eyston) said that he despised the 2' exereiseil such power. He (Lord Radnor) desP o et: too; but iu spite of the cont e mpt of th em both' I ", would ex e rci se suc h p ower . Th ey were th e retb o ol to do all in their po we r t o p ro t ec t t h e poor matt f r) oppression.—(Cheers.)—There were other pe that ea t ri le y e b re v ix o bi t es e rt yb.wy without ouwtt he would la ! i a l b r t l rk y i b, p el o rmy t w? a n e o e id n i r e:Aor lj i were inclined to bribe ne e dy vo t ers . M r . Paline r j ai brib i dividual that it would p u t a s t o p b ot h to genera l an d to ' bribery. It was said that the Cv.tem was "' Y er ei Indeed ! Why, it was that which all of them ' C a t every day. There was not a club in Englan d .:ie it was not practised every day. The reason of evident to require explanation. With resP e `, blackballing of Mr. O'Connell, it n ever c o uld 10 J , discovered who had blackballed him if th e y had p. enough to keep their own secret. In conclusio n ' iv', that as the arguments in favour of the ballot Wel 0 he should c er t a i n l y h o ld up hi s h an d i n favou r e solution. rep Mr. WruarE proposed, ass an amendment, 3 ," to this eff e ct—" Th a t n o R e f orm cou ld b e pra' tional, and efficient, without the vote by ballot. o af. Mr. RIGBY seconded the amendment. 'Mea l kept under controul the desire of the East to job so much as the ballot. If the vote hY" . , e lie existed at Newark, Mr. Sadler would not 4 Member ; and the noble patron of the borough ° : ( 0 1 ' given notice to all his tenants to quit, for he al" have known who did vote for his nominee, against him. d. Mr. FYSIIE PALMEit said that for many found it difficult to reconcile himself to v ote ;1 1. and he had for a long time thought that would go up to the hustings, despising alike your, and voting according as their conscieve pi , them. At his first election at that place, bi', 4l l el' i this subject were a little shaken—(Hear, and and, at his second election, lie became convioee4 stet by ballot was the way i n w hi c h th e indepen d fci, of the elective f ranc hi se cou ld b e secured. ---q He was now as favourable to vote by ballot as t ° o lr: of what he b e li eve d t o b e essen ti a l po i n t s of th i ' r ial'' question. He could state from his own W e t ac c under the pr e s e nt s yst e m a ma n f reque ntly ran. being ruin e d if he ex e rcised independently th'' ledged and valuabl e ri g ht, and be w a s free to lir, if it were offered to hint to have vote by ballot O . s e r e! dition that the statutes against bribery should. n o , he would say at once, and without hesitat:o 0 your bribery acts and welcome, so that you . 1 by ballot."—(Cheers.) s";• Mr. C. Russet'. said, that they now al i t' re o s; question of Reform under very dithirent those which had formerly surrounded it. tote' longer a party measure, but it was brough t d i e al Government on a firm conviction of its exPete they had been assured that a measure of Retnr:ei, introduced upon that responsibility which atts‘b3ll'; advisers of the Crown.—(Cries of " Ballo t s c if He would come to the ballot presently. Ol t : , ti bog extract from one of Earl Grey's sPe eL of form, the Hon. Member said that a measnr e to t, founded on such principles, and likely to le ad sults as were descibed by his Lordship in tha t would most gladly give his su pp o rt.—(Cris % - it ballot.") As to the system of vote by ball t)-I ,l l ' vary good, or it might be very bad—(Hisses eiltl —but in his opinion it would not frail to the jo o: the supporters of it expected. All, howe ver ' o f mit that it was a very great novelty.---(C 1. , 1 :0 tir' it won't suit you,")—that was au innov a ", o t. Constitution, and not merely a reparation °L0,0(4 opinion the wisest course would be to leav e re s t ; a measure of Reform to the Government, f themselves, of course, the right of judging ° when brought forward. Mr. MoNcK expressed his readiness t O ot'a' amendment superseding his resolution• 1- 0' cues between the two was, that the amen dine strongly worded. o lun he Hum Starairr then put the 111 ,, f 0 w as carried amidst loud ac c l a mations, on "I being held up against it. 9 ,Atr. Mr. BUDD said that Mr. Dallis bad r e lief' 1 dog—(Laughter) —and they wanted soute on o tb e of word "Reform" upon his chair at an speak, to press the opinions of the county u l i ; o e county for Mr. Dundas (continued the Hon. Gent.) . 00 ; , many years, brit lie had alsOr e few months after he said to me, " You ret orN r reforme rs ," sa id I ; " why arn ' t you a rou'r said he, " not one of your kind of reforn°t. and laught e r.) his ga d P J Mr. C. DUNDAS said that the fact watts Mr. Budd, was a radical reformer, and v erY certainly w as not . M r. Budd knew thi s i 'vith 0 . this was what Mr. Budd complained Oft 0 .- ohs vote by ballot, he would state now, lest 313 . Y pt ioll hereafter accuse him o f p ra ctising deL ;; a e tti subject, that although he had heard a g ° . ° d op°,, t 'of ballot, had not yet made up his Itnt2lin would, how ever , g i ve it t h e b es t considerao P 0 4. 5 0 old he assured them that when the subl e il L vote teforc the House of Commons, he Al" P.B * ) tra of tl They ar Conatituei Newca cording to his conscience. - tat i/ ac Mr. MoNcK said, that now that tile r jt ,i . e f , petting the vote by ballot had been cavi l ' iro,,' tion, he had next to propose to theta another 0,, Walter, Esq., the High Sheriff, he had no doubt would be received in tbe o t e jo ,:, vote he should propose was a vote of 0 6 0 ,110,,;! svhich he acceded to the desire o f the rol ul' f o r the !.eitioVi