The Sun. — London, England, 1856-06-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIA.MENT, HOUSE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the wool s** at the usual hour. THE METROPOLITAN PRESS. Lord DENMAN called the attention of their lord ships to the misrepresentations and unwarrantable state ments of the press of the metropolis generally, and of a leading journal in particular. He was made the subject of vituperation, especially when he came forward to con tradict a statement made by that journal that Lord Rokeby was unfitted for that position to which he was appointed in the Crimea. He did not care what the press might say of himself, but the system of misrepre sentation and vituperation was operating most injuriously to the interests of this country in America, France, and the continental countries generally. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord then quoted extracts from the American and French papers in support of his asser tion, and also read portions from the recent work of M. Montal3mbert with the same view. He trusted that the press would take warning, and that the good sense of its conductors would induce the adoption of a more discreet and truth-telling system. DRAFTS ON BANKERS BILL. On the motion of Lord MONTEAGLE, this bill was read a second time. MURDER BY WOMEN. Lord ST. LEONARDS asked her Majesty's Govern ment whether it was their intention to bring in a bill to abolish the punishment of death in cases of murder by women ? The noble and learned lord said he was in duced to ask the question in consequence of the recent unaccountable and inexplicable intervention of the Crown's prerogative in favour of two women that had recently been found guilty of the most dreadful mur ders. The one was the case of Celestine Somers, and the other was equally well known. If it were not the intention of the Government to introduce a bill, he wished to know whether it was intended to advise the Crown to exercise the prerogative of mercy to all cases in which women were the offenders Earl GRANVILLE said that the Government had no intention to introduce any bill on the subj !ct, nor to advise ber Majesty to exercise her prerogative of mercy in all cases where women were the offenders. In the two cases referred to the prerogative had been exercised in consequence of certain extenuating rcamstances. Lord CAMPBELL was much pleased to hear the noble earl declare that the Government had no in tention, as was suggested, in respect to cases of mur der by women. In his opinion the practice of canvassing for the exercise of the Royal prerogative in all cases of murder was most mischievous, and calculated to produce the most injurious consequences. In reply to a question from the Earl of LIARDWICZE, Lord GRANVILLE said he was unable at the pre sent moment to give any decisive information respecting the building of an hospital in the Southampton water. HAY AND STRAW BILL. This bill, after a few verbal amendments, passed through committee. APPELLATE JURISDICTION BILL. On the motion for the third reading of this bill, Lord CLANCARTY opposed the motion. Lord DENMAN commented on the manner in which the bill would interfere with the prerogative of the Crown, and moved, as an amendment, that the bill be read a second time that day six months. The Earl of DERBY reminded their lordships that the President of the Council bad been empswered to give the consent of the Crown to the measure. After some further discussion their lordships divided, and the amendment was negatived by a majority of 44 to 4. The bill was then read a third time and passed. Some bills on the tabla were forwarded a etagP, and their lordships adjourned until Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—gEsTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at the utual hour. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were read a third time and passed : —Deepiog Fen Drainage, and North British Railway. The following bills were considered and ordered to he read a third time :—Castle Douglas and Dumfries Rail way, Ceylon Railway Company, Epsom and Leather head Railway, and Maybole and Girran Railway Bills. SMALL ARMS. Mr. MIINTZ moved for returns of all orders given and contracts entered into by the War Department for small arms from the 13th of December, 1954, to the 31st of May, 1853, including all contracts for materials for small arms, and for setting up the same; and also contracts for finishing arms, with the date of contract and quantity ordered, specifying separately London, Birmingham, Belgium, and France. And of all muskets, rifles, and other descriptions of small arms and materials fur the Baum., received by the War Department from the 18th of December, 1854, to the 31st of May, 1856, specify. ing separately, Loudon, Birmingham, Enfield, Belgium, France, anti Arnerica.—Agreed to. REVENUE CRUISERS. _ _ Mr. E. ELLICE moved for copies of any orders ad dressed to the commanding officers of revenue cruisers, authorising them to cruise in search of and to capture enemy's ships during the late war; and of any corre spondence relative to the claim of such revenue cruisers to prize money for caoturei made at sea in pursuance of such orders.—Agreed to. MANNING THE NAVY. Sir G. TYLER asked the First Lord of the Admi ralty whether her Majesty's Government had under consideration any measure fur securin7 the more imme diate manning and equipment of the Navy on any future emergency ; and, if so, whether it was their intention of bringing it forward during the present Session of Par liament Sir C. WOOD said that the question was a very d ficult one to answer. The subject bad been inquired into at different times, and various p;ans had been sug gested. Tim Government had not yet made up their minds what course to adopt. RIOTS IN DEMERARA. Mr. HORSFALL asked the Secretary of State for the Colonies if he bad any objection to lay on the table of the house copies of Governor Wodehouse's despatches on the subject of the recent riots in Demerara ? Mr. LABOUCHERE said the last West India mail had brought intelligence that quiet had been restored, that the ringleaders in the late disturbances had been punished, and also that the law bad been vindicated.. Under these circumstances, if the hon. member wished for the papers he had asked for, there would be no objection to their production. ARREARS OF CESS. Col. 0. HIGGINS asked whether there was any in tention to carry out the promise male by the Irish Go vernment to the grand jury of the county of Mayo, of introducing a bill to enable the grand jury to re-present the arrears of cess now due in that county, and on the faith of which promise alone the act of 17 and 18 Vic., o. 110, was agreed to by that county ? The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND said was intended to bring in a bill on the subject. COUNTY COURTS BILL. In reply to Mr. ROEBUCK, Sir G. GREY said he would inquire of the Lord Chan c?.llor what wag the exact position of the bill referred to. OUR RELATIONS WITII AMERICA. Sir E. L. BULWER said he would take this oppor &unity of asking a question of the noble lord, on the subject of which he had given notice. He would fain, believe tbat our Minister had not been dismissed,. but it was well known that the Government of the United. States had recognised Gen. Walker, and it was also known that a frigate bad been sent to the scene of operations, but he hosed that it was merely for observation. He thought that a war with America would be the greatest calamity that could befall this country, except the loss of national honour. The question he wished to ask was—sceing that a parliamentary discussion had been delayed to re ceive an answer from the American Government to the proposal for arbitration, and seeing that be bad for borne for four or five weeks to bring forward the . question, he bagged to ask what steps had boen taken by the Government in the interim to obtain the eply l Mr. ROEBUCK role to step in, as it were, between the lion. baronet and the noble lord at the head of the G ?Verurnent betore he auswe”od the question. (Cries of " Hear, he ar .) T he hon. and . learned gentlman was about to address the house on the American question, when Mr. DISRLBLI rose toor der.(hear, hear)—re marking that there was no motion before the house, and the hon. and learned member had no right to address th e h o use. (Hear, hear.) Mr. ROEBUCK said that he andersr ,:in od the motion of adjournment was be fore the ho use. Lord PALMERSTON said--I am unaj,l n o.) Lord to definite answer to the pa rticular question with which e ah the honourable baronet concluded his obser vat i ons, viz., what particular steps had been taken wi thin the last three weeks to obtain an answer from the American Government relative to submitting to m in"_ Lion the settlement of the Central American question. (Hear, hear.) I can only say that the American Government has been fully made aware of that offer, and it rests with them to determive whe ther they will accept it or not. (Hear, hear.) I don't know if Lord Clarendon thought it right to specially rase on that question, because • there was another of greater moment pending at that time. With regard to the general remarks of the hon. baronet, am bound to say that in the present state things between the two Governments —if an ntiruation of the opinion of this Government on the propriety of discussing this subject is desired, --- I have no hesitation in saying that the interest of this country, and the prospect of maintaining Permanent and amicable relations between this country and America, will be promoted by the con t.ntunce of that judicious forbearance which the house has hitherto shown with regard to discussions' on this question, and also on those of greater importance, viz., with regard to the commencement of the late war and the negotiations for peace. The house acted with honour to itself and with great forbearance towards the Government in abstaining from throwing any difficulties in the way of the Government in discussing these quo:along. (Hear, hear.) The negotiations now pending are of a very grave ohar...cter, but I hope, and not without rea son, that they may terminate with ou t interruption to the peaceful relations now existing between the two countries. (Cries of "Hear, hear.") Here one Government has no real cause of collision with the other Government, and it is to be hoped that the good sense of the governments on both sides of the water will prevail, and prevent an unnecessary collision. (Hear.) A discussion now in this house must be productive of mist injurious results, and it was to the interests of the dountry it should not take place. (Hear.) Yes- terday, in answer to a question, whether Mr. Crampton had retired from Washington, I stated the Government, hal received indirect information that such was the case. (Hear.) I find from Lord Clarendon that the in formation so received came by a Cunard packet, which sailed from Halifax on the 221 ult. Yeste,dly evening another packet from America reached this country. She sailed from New York on the 24th ult., and has not brought any confirmation of the report brought by the former packet. (Hear.) lam not in possession of any official information on the subject. (Hear.) SUNDAY MUSIC IN THE PARKS. Lord LOVAINE withdrew the notice he had given for callinglbe attention of the house to Sunday music in the parks. He did so from information he bad re ceived that the feeling of the public was subsiding on the question, and that if he reopened it, it wou!d be pro ductive of increased irritation. SLIGO ELECTION. In answer to a question from Mr. BUNCOMBE, and after an explanation from Mr. G. BUTT, the Chairman of the Sligo Election Committee, The ATTORNEY-GENER A.LforIRELAN D said be declined to proceed against Edward Killoran and Jtmes Ward for perjury in conformity with the report of the committee. THE RETURN OF TROOPS FROM THE CRIMEA. Lerd ELCHO wished, as general discontent prevailed at the delay in bringing home the troops from the Crimea, to put a question on the subject to the Govern ment. It was upon the 13th of March that the treats , of peace was signed, but for some time previously the Government must have been web aware that the nego tiations would lead to a successful issue. Well, they had now arrived at the 6th of June, and, to the best of his belief, not a single infantry soldier had set his foot in the country, returning from the Crimea. He wished, therefore, to ask the First Lord of the Admiralty what was the cause of that delay ; for daring the same period nearly 60,000 French troops and nearly the whole of the Sardinian army had reached home '1 At the same time our transports had been employed to land the troops of our allies. What he wanted to know was, why the navy had not been employed as well as the transports to bring home the troops 1 Last week, indeed, orders were re ceived at Plymouth and Portsmouth for ships of the navy to proceed to the Crimea to bring home troops. But if it was right that that order should be issued last week, why was it not equally right that it should have been issued five or six weeks ago ? Sir C. WOOD said that the orders issued as to the embarkation of the army from the Crimea were the fol lowing. First of all, upwards of 10,000 Sardinian troops were to be conveyed to Italy before any of oar own lett the Crimea. The next arrangement was, that after sending back to America the troops which had been withdrawn from thence, troops were to be forwarded to the Mediterranean stations, to relieve the militia oc copying those garrisons, who were to be brought home.. Besides, therethre, the 10,000 Sardinians, up to t he Ist of June, 17,000 men bad been embarked from the Crimea, and 4,000 from Scutari ; making, together, `21,000 men. Since that, further embarkations had taken place, and, as near as could be calculated, there would be . embarked by the 20th of June, 19,000 ; about the commencement of July 18,000 more, and before the end of July what remained cif the army —about 14,000 is all. Upon the most unfavourable calculation, therefore, the whole of the army would have left the Crimea .by the end of July, for he believed he had considerably underrated the numbers that could leave at each embarkation. They had steam transports IT 32,000 men, sailing transports for 9,000, and it was calculated that the ships of war would bring home be tween 14,000 and 15,000 men. Two large line-of-battle ships and six large steamers had been ordered from the B'aele Ssa to the Mediterranean, but there bad been appropriated for the service of the army in the Crimea ten line-of-battle shi?s, two frigates, and two large steamers. His belief was that all the troops would have left the Crimea by the middle of July. Lord ELCHO said the right hon. gentleman had not told them why the ships of war had not been crdered out before last week. Sir C. WOOD.—Many of the vessels were not in a state to be ordered to sea. Captain SCOBELL would remind the house that full six weeks ago he had ventured to recommend the em ployment of the navy, in order to bring the troops home from the seat of war. However, he was met by the re tort that it was not proper to employ her Majeety's ships on such a service. He remembered, too, they had been told that the ships were prepared to go to the Baltic. Well, if that were so, what would have been easier than to have taken the lower-deck guns out of the screw line-of-battle ships, and have thus made room for troops, for then the ships might have been got forward immediately after the review at Spithead. He must say if any sickness should befall the troops in the Crimea through the return of the hot season, he thought much blame would properly devolve upon the Board of Admi ralty for having hesitated so long in the matter. Admiral BERKELEY said he was in great measure answerable for having induced his right hon. Heed not to send the line-of-battle ships to the Black Sut for the purpose of bringing home the troops, for, as a naval officer, he was aware how much such a ship of war was disorganise I by embark in 4 troops added to which, it was in the knowledge of the beard Lit a three-decker was near sinking in the Mediterranean on account of some defect in its screw. When the ships from the Baltio returned home it beams necessary to inspect the screws of them all, otherwise accidents might have resulted which the country far and wide would have had to regret. He agreed it was evy enough to take out the lower-deck guns of a line•obbattle ship, but then they bad afterwards to deal with a ship's company unaltering 1,000 or 1,100 men, and in order to make room for troops they must get rid of half the crew, which let him observe was no easy matter. For that rea son, he recommended his right hon. friend not to send out line-of-battle ships to bring the troops home unless an urgent necessity required his doing so. Sir C. NAPIER could not conceive why the Baltic fleet immediately on its return home was not sent out to bring home troops. It was quite true that the em barkation of troops was likely to disorganise a ship of war. But last night it was shown that the coast-guerd men, the riggers and the " five years' men " had been all ciisraissed from the fleet, so that the crews of the ships had by that means been so reduced as to allow of their brining home troops. Be might also be allowed to oh serve that the screws of the Baltic fleet had been nil ex amined before proceeding there, and therefore be pre sumed the ships were in a fit state to proceed to the Black Sea. Ile certainly thought the ships would have been perfectly ready to sail after the review at Ports mouth. He was happy, however, to find that at last the ships had been ordered to the Mediterranean for the conveyance of treop. , , and as otherwise a great number of them would be paid off, he did not see how in any event the service could suffer. THE NEW FOREIGN OFFICE. - - Mr. OLIVEIRA. begged toack the right hon. baronet (Sir B. Hall) what steps had been taken in reference to the application 'of 40,0001. voted by cause 20 of the Consolidated Fund (Appropriation) Act, 1855. 18Lb and 19th Vict , for the erection of a new Foreign Office, and the suns of 5,8001., voted by the same act, for the con tinuation of Pall-mall into the Green Park Sir B. HALL said that of the sum of 40,000/. 'voted last year, 10,000 was intended for the repairs of the Foreizn Office, and 30,000 for the purchase of the, pro perty in the neighbourhood of Downin g-street. He had not thought proper as yet to have the' 10,000 laid out because the select committee had still to decide whether the new building was to be erected in the neighbour hood of Downint, , street. As regarded the purchase of the property, a great deal of it had, be , n already pur chaSed.' With regard to the sum of 1,8001., that; was to to paid to the Earl of Ellesmere for the property in the vicinity of Bridgwater House, but the pur&ase had not as Set been completed. Tne hon, gentleman, however, vas quite wrong in supposing that a sum of 5,8001. was sufficient to open a line from Palhmail into the Green Park. The sum required for that purpOse would amount to more than 100,0001., while at the same tune Jet him remind the house the select committee hal re• jected the project ait!bgether. THE MILITIA. Colonel GIIEVILLE wished t.) ask whether it WM the intention of the Government to give any gratuity to the non-commissioned officers and privates of the militia on disembodiment. Lord PALMERSTON said that in the year 1814, when the militia were disembodied, the privates received 14 days' pay in advance after their disembodiment, the troops of the line receiving a Glarger sum. Toe ovo-e•• anent intended to follow that precedent. The house would no doubt see that it was not desirable to placl a large sum at once in the hands of men immediately upon their being disembodied, because it was probable that it would be squandered away in an improper mann , r. Bethought that the best arrangement would be to give the men their 14 days' pay gratuity upon their dis embodiment, and the residue of their bounty when they were called up for service next year. Arrange ments would also be made to supply those men with proper clothing who were really in want of it. The men, howe‘er, • would be allowed to take with them their pea jacket, part cf their necessaries, and their foraging cap. They would not, therefore, be much in want of sufficient clothing for immediate purposes. AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS BILL. S t s a.t i i r sti Mr. PACKE asked whether it was the intention of the Government • • c.uu t i o o p u r T es h s u t r h s e da se y c n on ex d t r l eading of the Agricultural would he considered latsleiziti on . Thursday. would he "'EY said it was not at all likely that the bill Mr. R. know when thesaid it would be most convenient to measure saa would be brought on. iu Si r r . G S 'l l. C O R O N E Y E Li . o . bsor., ed that the compulsory clause was . t timely notice would be given. SCOTCH considered most objectionable. EDUCATION ,In answer to a q uestion i,0,„ lA , • EXCHEQUER c , BRUCE, The p C t HEQUER said it was re at question of supply the first s e arranged rC EN LLtOo takeß o f the th o order on Friday next, and then to proceed with theLordrd Advocate's bills in reference to educatio n in Scotland; but notice would be giv en of the business for tha t day Colonel BUCK as ked the noble lord to repeat his obser vations in respect of the militia, as he was not sure that he quite understood him. Lord PALMERSTON then made a statement p rec i se l y ' 1 similar to that wo have already. given. The motion for the adjournment of the house until Mon day was then agreed to. CRIMEAN SKETCHES. On the order for committee of supply, Lord ELC HO rose to bring forward his proposition for. the purchase, by the State, of Mr. Simpson's Crimean sketches. Having detailed the well-known circumstances under which the sketches had been prepared; the noble lord proceeded to read letters from the Duke,of Cam bridge, Sir E. Lyons, Ccl. Steele, and Sir De L. Evans, bearing testimony to the ability and fidelity they exhi bited, and contended for their value to posterity both in a national and historic point of view. France had her glories painted at Veracities, and these sketches, if pre• THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JUNE 7, 1856. served at Woolwich or some similar place, wauld serve as a record of our Crimean victories. In his opinion the great hall at Chelsea, which was seldom used, would be the most suitable place in which to exhibit them. He understood that his right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer had been advised against their purchase by Sir C. Eastlake, hut he could assure his right hon. friend that Sir C. Eastlake's dictum would not have any great weight or authority in the artistic world. Three grounds, he understood, were urged against their ' purchase. First, that being in water colour, they would soon fads second, that the price was excessive ; and third, thg they had already been engraved and published. Now, with respect to the first objection, he would ob serve, that Sir C. Eastlake was an oil painter, and they knew the maxim, "Nothing like leather.;" and it was known that water-colour pictures, if properly taken care of, would last for centuries. The wars of the French Republic were all painted in water colours. With re gard to the price, there was not an artist in the king dom who would not say that it was moderate ; and as to their being published already, it should be recollected that the price of the published series was ten guineas, which placed them beyond the reach of the public gene rally. He hoped that his right hon. friend would take these circumstances into consideration, and propose a vote fur their purchase. The Cd ANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER slid that ho had visited the cAlection alluded to, for the pot.- pose of ascertaining whether their purchase by the State would be desirable. So far as he c 'old learn, this col lection of water-colour drawings had been made at the instance of Messrs. Colnaghi for the purpose of being engraved, which was subsequently done. Having taken the advice of competent persons respecting their pm.. chase by the nation, he had come to the conclusion that their material was not sufficiently durable to render such a proceeding expedient. CHU RC II ACCOMMODATION AT PLIIIISTEAD The Marquis of BLANDFORD rose to call attention to the existing want of church accommodation in the parish of Plumstead, and to the claims upon the Go vernment in respect of property and employment of .labour in the parish ; and to move that, in the opinion of this house, the circumstances of the parish continue to demand the attention of the Govern ment. In doing so, he had no wish to cast any slur upon the Government, as he believed they were not unwilling to make provision. The population of Plumstead in 1841 was 2,816 ; and in 1851 had increased to 8,373, the church accommodation, which provided for only four hundred, remaining. the same. The population bad been increased to 12,000 by the war, but previous to that, it had, iu 1851, increased from 2,000 to 8,000. The pariah church, which accotbmcdated 400 persons, was a mile and a•halt from the Arsenal, and, co , s quently, was not very easy of access to many per sons. The vicar had brought these circumstances before the War. Department, explaieieg the insufficiency of local contributions towards the erection of either a church or a school, but all the aid that had been afforded.by the G overnment was a grant of 1001., made at the recom mendation of Lord Raglan, towards the erection of a church, which was, however, so inadequate, that it had re mained in the bank ever since. The Government had, however, given a further grant of 1,0001. towards the este,- blishment of a school, provided an equal sum was raised by the locality. The incumbent now offered that if a grant were allowed of 2,0001. towards the building of church, he would raiea a further HUM of 2 0001., and erect a church close to the Arsenal. The grounds of this application were that the Government were the owners of the principal portion of the property at Plumstead, and that the great mass of the population consisted of artisans and labourers in their employ, and whose interests ought to be as much cared for as the army and navy, who used the munitions of war which these artisans and labourers manufactured. He concluded by moving an amendment to the motion that the Speaker do leave the chair, that the circum stances of the parish of Piumstead continued to demand the attention of the Government. Mr. MONSELL assured the noble lord that the sub ject had not escaped the Government or the war depart- ment, and advised him to leave the matter in the hands of the Secretary of State for that department. It must not be supposed that the Government had done nothing in the matter. 1,0001. had been granted for the erection of schools in connection with the Church of Eagland, and sites had been granted for the erection of schools in con• oection with the Roman Catholic and Presbyterian reli gisns, on condition that certain contributions should be contributed by the locality. Mr. J. AI`GREGO R. spoke fram personal knowledge of Vie wants of the neighbourhood, and while admitting the extent to which the Government had responded to the demands for drainage, schools, and other • improve ments referred to the liberality of Sir C. Eardley in the adjoining parish of Erith, who, though in some part a (Lssenter, had provided a site and built a church, and ex pressed a hope that the Government would make pro vi-ion for the spiritual destitution of the population, which the Arsenal and other public works had brought together io Piumstead. Atter a fe v words fr.,m Sir J. PAIKINGTON, The Marquis of BL- NDFORD intimated his willing ness to leave the matter in the Lands of the Government, and withdrew his nmendinent. In rep;y to Sir J. PAKINGrOINI, Sir G. GILE'Y gave notice that the education vote would be taken on the next supply night, viz., Thursday next. The house then went into committee of supply. The first vote propose] was 40,0001. for public works —tee-evident institutions for the protnotion of education and civiisatit.n amongst the nations of South Africa. Li reply to Stlr, WlLLums, who asked for some ex pl tt.ation of the charge, Mr. LABOUCHERE stated that last year a scheme had been submitted by Sir G. Grey, the Governor of the Cap of Gooti Hope, for the civilisation of the native tribes, and the maintenance of tranquillity, a part of which consi4ed in providing means for employing them in the csnstruotion of public) roads, the establishment of ocheole, and other works of improvement, which he said would be more effectual in preserving peace and instil.- ing the safety of the colony than any amount of force that could be tent out. That scheme involved an annual grant for ten years—to the extent of 40,000/. for the first three years, to be diminished gradually in the succeeding years until it ceased altogether. He pro pceed to lay upon the table to-night the accounts winch had been received from the colony since lest veer, when the first grant was made, in which Governer Grey stated that the plan of employing the .Kettire upon public works had been mo it successful ; that the emit was comparative'y ama 1 ; that it was open• iug up the resources of the country, implanting habits of industry in the native population, and preserving peace and tranquillity. As a matter of economy he believed that this money was well spent, inasmuch as it afforded the meet effectual means of preventing those outbreaks on the frontier which occurred some time ago, and which were not only calamitous in their restilte, but occasioned a heavy charge upon the finances of the e st :try. .'lithe vote was then agreed to. On the following vote, viz., 12,6341., to make good the loss on commissariat chest transaction] ; for freight and expellees of shipment, and for raising money con nected with the notritniseariat, Mr. WILSON, in answer to Sir F. BIRING, explained that one portion of this charge arose from the retrans ferencemt the chest fund back to the Treasury, from which to o years ego it bad been transferred to the War office . The other portion was occasioned by loss in ,the exchanges consequent on making retnittences abroad. After some further discussion the vote was agreed to. Ort the next vote of 6,6001. for Agricultural Statistics in Ireland and Scotland, Mr. H. I-lEftBERT said that he must call attention to this here. He begged to ask if any inquiry had been made as to the accuracy of the statistics which were an nually pub!islied, and whether they gave anything like a pro d , r ace ,nut (Idle agricultural crops in Ireland. He did not hink, ng as he did, the way in which these sotti tLs were collected, that they would be of any great weiget. They wore collected by the constabulary, who old not Itia , e any proper knowledge of the subject, and he weer amid learn upon what data they went. Mr. PALK was sorry that so few members were pre sent to listen to the statement of the hon, gentleman, as he thoughait would be a lesson to them not to pees a bill which was before this house on this subject; for England. Nothing could be more mischieVoue to the country and to agriculture than a bad system of statistics, and indeed he objected to the prying into this affairs of agriculturists which it was proposed to adopt by means of a bill Lefore the house. He wished to know what was the meaning of a note attached to the vote stating that a sum of 4,0001. voted for the collection of agricultural statistics last year way not expended ; and he would he glad to he informed whether that sum was exclusive of the 6,600/. asked for by the vote ? Mr. WILSON slid thaflait session a vote of 6;300/. was passed for the collection of agricultural statistics in England, Ireland, and Scotland. In Scotland and Ire land the machinery for collecting these statistics was as perfect as it had been, and in England it was intended to push the experiment further than had been done in two previous years ; but in consequence of a recom tneadation of a committee of the House 'of Leeds ; a bill on the subject was introduced, and it was thought proper that nothing should be done until that hill was passed ; the 4,0001. therefore was not e xaended. The vote now before the house was fcr Scotl,nd and Ireland,and it was not thought right to ask for a larger sum before the bill had passed, an l it was proposed to be content with the 4,0001. in hand for the ensuing year, if the bill passed. Ile did nut mean to say that implicit confidence was to be placed in the ag ile iltut al statistics c illected in Ireland for last year. He had reason to remark that there were great discrepan cies between them and those furnished from Scotland, which could not be accounted for by difference of c'imate and soilOn the whole, however, though the agricultural statistics might not be quite correct, yet they were a fair index of the state of cultivation of the land, and gave something like an approximation to the amount of crops given. There could be no doubt that a system of agri cultural statistics would he most beneficial in regulating the planting of crops, which were often influenced by the variation of prices, the result of which was a deficient return for capital expended in the production of a par ticular article, which had ranged at high prices for one er two years, and fell again at a time when an undue quantity of land was appropriated to its cultivation. Sir J. TYIZELL said that the cultivators of land lidd no objection to information on agrienl.ural statistics, but, they did complain of the vexatious and in q uisitorial manner in which it was proposed to obtain them. After a few words from Mr. L. DAVIES, Lord NAAS said that great dissatisfaction was felt in Ireland with regard to the position in which this quote tion was placed. The stet istical returns hardly approxi mated to correctness. The way in which these returns were obtained was, that after the quantity of acreage had been ascertained circulars were sect wake principal persons in different distrcte, asking them to state what was tho average quantity of wheat, p datnee, or oats, grown in their district!'. This was got togethe r I the sub-inspectors of the constabulary, who only picked it up where they could, at fairs and markets by hearsay. he thought it improper to tax the working people of this The 'hese plan to secure accuracy would be to hare re- 1 country for such an object. turns of all agricultural produce brought to market; not intended that there should be any political distinctions I The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER sail it was in the , sel l ection of persons whose portraita should be placed Sir Re FERGUSSON eaid that the acreage returns . a Tin i t i object w al a l s to form a gallery of histori were very well done by he constabulary, who were ge nerally the sons of farmers, and very intelligent men ; ' c u .1 h e e rt'r a ai le ts ry th t e l Church or State, in of science or'oaW.l.° T r h h a etinguished in and they were after wards submitted to the correction ot' sufficiently broad definition. The criticism.t surelyo tewhaosna. proprietors of land. But when the constabulary came to collect the returns of the quantity or produce, it was gentleman the member for North Warwickshire was con vert, different, and by no means satisfactory. . ceived in a very narroiv-minded view of the subject. He Mr. STAFFORD said the house was indebted to the (Sir C. Lewis) was sure the hon. gentleman to whom they hon. member for Kerry for b r inging this question befo r e used to look up to as the embodiment of the economical their notice. The police in I r eland might be very in - principle, the late Mr. Hume, would not have prescribed telligent, but they did not perform this duty, which was , such a scheme as this. But was it true that the working classes could derive no benefit from institutions of this thrust upon them, and was connected with their other , l o er objectt no t benefit tlre B rfirtoitsnh the htuse b ir k . Th o working classes could kind? Why, on the same principle the hon. geatleneanought duties, con amore. The sta tis tics were , therefore , inac curate, a meritl h owtiags o h not a t t altogether no without com p compulsion e b nl ll p t i, their uyed which the libraryabounded nor ° frs it the differhutc'e g ileetions learned 'enema es in great in their collection, a fact which he hoped would be re- of scientific objects which were ' to be found in other parts membered when the English Fi I came on. • of the institution. Besides, it was in London. Not only Mr. SPOONER said that Mr. Wilson had admitted must they, on the hon. gentleman's showing, shut up the that these statistics were of no use as a guide to dealings British Museum and the National Gallery—not only must in agricultural produce between individuals. He (Mr. they withdraw all aid from every scientific and artistic in- Sphoner) admitted that it would be of use to have re- stitution to which they extended their as tistance, but they turns of the quantity of acreage in wheat, oats, &c., but must abolish the Record-office and the State Paper-office. He would remind the committee that that great and pe as to getting an account of live stock on a term, no ac curacy in that resoect could be expected or obtained. aenvattbetyhteliTtohratrtit not o so f their woch ifiriostin throito_tsiconfatthieoinr, the os ancien i t h ßomans, used to adorn the yeeti- Mr. Sereeant SHE E quite agreed with those who had guished forefeth o ers e ! preceded him as to tee value of agricultural statistics. It l o ve of art, but in order that their sous might always have was W3B of great importance that they should know how before their eyes those incentives which the portraits of many oxen, and sheep, and pigs, and how many geese, their illustrious ancestors were so well calculated to supply. and ducks, tied hens there wsre in the city ; but there What was now proposed was that they should imitate that was another description of agricultural statistics which great people, not in their privets families, but as a com would be of infinitely more value—what proportion of munity ; and the House of Commons would not lay . down the labouring population of Ireland was employed in its design at believed that the people in the countrythe bidding of the hon. gentleman opposite. agriculture, and during what number of months in th Mr. RICE e would value a gallery of this kind even more than the in year they were actuatly receiving wages. He should habitants of the metropolis. He believed that the work else like to know what was doing for the improvement inn gclasses would enjoy a collection of this kind as much of estates in Ireland, what farms-houses, a -houses, and what la-any other portion of the community. beurere'eCattages were built. This information would Viscount GODERICH could only conceive one reason he of importance to the Govment and that house, and why the working classes should not avail themselves of the would guide them in their legislation for Ireland. proposed gallery, rind that arose from the fact that the The vote was then agreed to. hon. gentleman (Mr. Spooner) and his friends would not On the vote of 2,00 . 0; towards the formation of a consent to open publio institutions ,on the only day on British 11 , storical Gallery, which working men could visit them. (Oh.) Lord W. GRAHAM said he should like to have sorae Mr. JAS. M'GREGOR cordially supported the vote, and entreated his hon. friend to withdraw his opposition. He information ebaut the mode in which this sum was to be wished to know, however, why the public inetitutions were expended, as it was the first time this vote had beau pro not opened on every day of the week except Sunday? posed. He asked whether Government intended to purchase Mt. MAGUIRE said the Chancellor of the Exchequer, pictures when they came into the market, or whether they in hie budget speech, particularly pressed upon the house intended to employ artists to copy portraits ;because un- the fact that unless they lessened the expenditure, he could less they adopted the latter course, there were many per- not reduce the taxation of the country. Now this year they traits iu the possession of families which might never be brought into the market at all, but copies of which it had done nothing to diminish the attend charge, except in might be desirable to obtain for the gallery. the naval and military departments. (neer, hear.) When The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said it was the income tax was first imposed, the civil contingenciee amounted only to 3,500,00 b/.; this year they were 6,700,030/. quite true this was the first time this vote had been pro (Cheers.) Vesicles, he should like to know what they in posed. It was proposed in consequence of an address from the other' house of Parliament praying her Majesty to take tended the , gallery ultimately to be? Did they mean to have another Versailles? (Cheers.) Well, ho would means r the formation of a gallery of historical portraits. ailed them that the French attained to great excellence in re- In the first instance Government asked for what hon. meat_ :cried respect at the time they were verging fast upon bank beri would see was a very limited sum of money for the ruptcy and revolution. (Hear, hear.) He protested alto objeca in view. It was most desirable not to attempt any gather against the lavish expenditure which hail prevailed thing ambitious in the first instance. There would not be of late years. any necessary connection between this gallery and the Na tional Gallery of pictures, thought it might be convenient The committee divided on the vote— Ayes that that connection should exist at first. In the first in- Noes stance they would acquire pictures by purchase, the object not being to acquire great works of art, but authentic portraits. It wee hoped that, considering the very large number of historical portraits in this city, greater, he a llayed, than in any other city in Europe, owing to the . happy exemption this city had enjoyed from intestine com motion, a good collection might bo formed. It was not to be supposed that any large number of these portraits would find their way into the market, family portraits being che rished beyond any other class of pictures. Ii might, how ever, be expected that, in some instances, if a g diery of this sort was established persons would be disposed to nicks presents to the cation of historical portraits, and no doubt means would be found, as the noble lord bad stated, in cases where the original portraits dould not be obtained, to employ artists who would make correct copies of them, which would form a chain in a chronological series which it might be desirous to est:tell:de He we:Ant not say that be fore this vote was obtained Government had thought it de sirable to lay down any principle on which the vote should be anutirdstered, but so far as they had formed views on the subject., their desire would be in the first instance to begin with a collection of pictures, which might be contributed voluntarily, merely to form a temporary exhibition, of which the large building which would shortly be com menced at Kensington-gore, and which was the •subject of the next vote, would be a convenient receptacle. But he could assure the committee that it was a subject which would engage the attention of the Government. It was their desire to administer this vote in such a manner as to lay the foundation of a collection of historical portraits, which would prove interesting to those who desired to study the history of the country, and would form a sup plement to those documentary treasures which we pos sessel illustrative of our national history. Mr. SPOONER said this was not a legitimate way of expending the revenue of this country. The labouring class of this country were taxed for the sugar, anti the tea, and the coffee that they used, and those taxes ought not to be applied for the entertainment of persons in a high class of life. Although this vote was a trifling one, it was ley ' ing the foundation of a greet gallery, which would ulti mately cost a large remount. Mr. - W. WILLIAMS agreed with the hon. member (err. Spooner), area was glad to find him displaying such a spirit. They had already statues of great men in this amutry, and there were portraits of distinguished naval officers at Greenwich. They were also having a collection ' of statues in the avenues to that house of persons who were considered to be the most eminent men iu the country, and he believed there was a great difference of opinion with regard to some of them. Who were to be the eminent men whose portraits they were to have? Before they were called upon to vote this money they ought to know whose por traits were to be placed in the gallery. He hoped the hon. member would divide the house against the vote • be should like him to have the credit of it. Ho had begun to look to the other side of the house for economy. Mr. L. DAVIES said they were beginning on the wrong principle. This vote would become greater every year, and the magnitude of the gallery would become an argument for continuing the expenditure. He thought it au unjus tifiable expenditure, especially seeing that only the inhabi tants of the metropolis would have an opportunity of see ing the gallery. Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE thought the bad taste die planed with reference to the statue of the Duke of Welling ton on Constitution•hill ought to be a warning to them how they voted public money for such a purpose es then proposed. He had no reliance on those who would have the selection of the portraits. He die not think it possible to conceive g reater difference of opinion than would exist as to the selection of these portraits. With regard to the statues in the avenue leading, to the house, he could have selected merry in preference to those that were there. Take, for instance, Cromwell. He should have thoueht that any man would have considered Cromwell was one of those great ornaments of this country that he, above all men, ought not to have been excluded. They roust recol lect they were not legislating for the metropolis alone, bat were levying . taxes on an overburdened and patient people. Sir J. PAKINGTON could not agree with the hon. member for L,mbeth or the hon. gentleman behind him (Mr. Spooner). He thought that this work had been. pro perly commenced in another plac) by a noble friend of his, who had achieved or great name as ono of the historians of this city. The prop sition was sensed to unanimously in the other house, and he hoped the House of Comm• is would not refuse so small a grant for the promotion of a national object. Lord PALMERSTON said the argument.; against this vote applied to every grant connected either with the arts or the history of the country, and on the same principle they. ought to have no statues, no public collection of paint ings, anti ; in short, they ought to confine the expenditure of the country to that which was strictly necessary for the administration of affairs. That had not been the practice of any country that had had a pride in itself, a sense of its own dignity,and a desire to elevate the minds of the people by objects which might excite their admiration. It was . said that the people of t hi s country would have no oppor tunity of seeing these things, and that was said about a week or ten days' after London was filled by hundreds of thousands of persons coining from every part of the coun try to see a display of fireworks; and after the recollec tion of the multitudes who came week after weekend month after mouth from all p irts of the country to sOO the Great Exhibition of 1851. Really he must say it was against one of the fundamental principles of human nature when they said th'.t a collection of the portraits of men who had been distingiii-hed in the history of the country wns not an ob ject won thy of a small expenditure ou the pert of the ne ther. In the first place, would any man who would exa mine his own mind say it was not a great gratification to him to see the portrait of a person whose actions had ex cited his admiration in former times? Why, it had been often said whew they read history, it was merely a recall of abstract mimes. They read of a man named Caesar, and of a man named Pompey, but they had no notion what sort of a man Caesar was, or what sort of a man Pompey was; but if they had a picture so that they might see what Caesar or Pompey was like, how much greater was the interest. In the same way he was quite sure it would afferd the people of this country satis faction to see the features and portraits of man whose ac tions had excited interest in red ling the history of this country. .fiat then they were told these portraits would consist of portraits of many people whom some might think not altogether deserving their approbation. Why in a free cote try where there has been at all times contending parties, of course one of those parties would like to see the portraits of those who had bean the most pre-eminent of their party, and those who had the feelings of the oppo nents of those men would naturally prefer to look on the I be it:Tea s ed in recording the h istor y of p ast times, awl a • portraits of those who agreed w ith them. But the y m ust collection of `shim sort must be made of men most remark -able in history, whatever side of politics they had adopted, and whatever might have been their career there would always be some who would look on them with approba tion, and there would, of course, be others who had a slit ' ferent opinion. This was a small vote. Of course it was not intended to ransack all the country houses to collect pictures of uncles and aunt s. ( Lau g hter.) The object was, as his right bon friend had ex p lained, not to coll ect works of art, but to collect the portraits of those who had been distinguished in the history of the country. Of course there must be judgment exercised in the selection of other persons. In other countries they did the same tiring. Every ono would recollect at Versailles the great collection of portraits of persona who had been distin guished in the history of France, and why should we feel less proud than other nations in collecting the portraits of those eh° had gone before us? And never let it be for gotten that there could not be a greater incentive to good conduct than for persons to sea brought before them those who were worthy of their approbation, and whose ex ample they might be more induced to imitate when they saw them brought before them in a tangible shape. Mr. ROEBUCK quite agreed with the noble bad about the great advantag e s of a gallery of th is sort. Th e inscri ti tbit] over the P a ntheon at Paris, " Aux grands hernm es l a petters eat reconeaissante,” always appeared to him most touching. Bat he heel another doubt, and that was tie to the persons eppointed for the selection ; for he had heard it ceitt that from their hall was exclude d Cioinwell— (loud cries of " Hear, hear") —who was proposed to be those set forth in his image as a great man belonging to this country, He cert•airtly was one of the rulers of our country, and o ne of the greatest rnlera—(hear, hear)—and he, he was told, was excluded frern that ball because lee was not what was celled a king. Now if this vote was to be used to shut out those who were really the honour arid the pride of this country, though they might not be legitimate kines or le,qitiinete inheritors of bonoure, then he should mot be for this vote ; but he believed that public opinion would guide those who selected the portraits, and he should there fore support the vote. Mr. SPOONER said he did noe object because the por traits of improper of persons - might be admitted, but because ... 23 ... -69 Majority The vote was therefore agreed to 10,0001. for the removal of the School of Art from Marl borough House to Kensington-gora. Lord R. GROSVE.NOtt suggested that this vote should be postponed. The removal of the School of Art was stated in an explanatory latter to be owing to the proposed alteration in the road oat of the Mall into Pall-mall. This subject would be discussed on a subequent vote, and as two alternatives were proposed, either of which would ren der the removal unnecessary, they ought surely to discuss those plans first. (Hear, hear ) Mr. WILSON said that the circumstance referred to by the noble lord was :only a'very minor ground for the re moval of the school. 'the truth was, the school occupied Marlborough-house under awed of Parliament for only a limited period, and it was absolutely necessary that it should leave in goDd time, so as to enable the house to be got ready against the time when the Prince of Wales would come of age. (Hear, hear.) Mr. PeLLATT objected to the plan of . having these schools in different parts of the town. They vaght to be brought under one roof. Sir J. PAXTON supported the vote. The present school building was in ►► very dangerons state, and might be destroyed at any moment by lire. They ought to be removed as soon as possible. Mr. W. WILLIAMS considered that they ought to have a plan of the entire buildings contemplated at Kensington gore, and that they ought also to have an estimate of the probable cost. There was an impression abroad that the ultimate expense to the country would be some millions of money ; and he was afraid there was only too much ground for that opinion. BosideS, it was really too bad to expect the students to go to Kensington—it was a day's journey, and they would have to make it in all weathers. The pur chase of this land had been a great mistake. It was said that the pictures would be out of the smoke of London ; but considering what wore the prevailing winds, he consi dered that that would prove a great mistake. There ought to be a committee to see what the plans of the Government really were. (Hear.) Mr. DISRA.ELI said the real question was whether the schools at Marlborough-house wore to be removed ; and it was most fortunate that they had this place at Kensington. Mr. SPOONER was afraid that few members of thecom mittee had read the book he held in his band— the 3d Re port of the Commissioners of the Exhibition of 1331. That report would make him very careful how he omitted to divide in future ; for he found it stated that the House of Commons had been unanimous in its approval of the pur chase at Kensiugton-gore, whereas the truth was he had oppessd it at the time, but he had not insisted on a division out of deference to the wish of the committee. (Mr. Dis raeli here made some private observation.) He (Mr. Spoo ner) was not io be put down either by the right hon. gen tleman opposite, who had called him "narrow-minted," or by his right hon. friend, in front of him, who called him (so it was understoo.l) a ' Madman." (Great laughter.) He thought that experience ought to make hon. members chary of giving their assent to fresh votes, although the amount be small. There was s,nother questionwhich he should like to have considered, and that was, in whom was the legal estate of this land ve3ted? He found from the report that it was the commissioners. Now, it would be well to know what power the state had over these commissioners, and how, in case of dispute, the beneficial interest, which was the property of Government, could be made available. It appeared to him that 100,0;0'. had been laid out in the pur chase of property which was in the hands of irresponsible commissioners upon a mere understanding. Was this a right manner in which to invest public money? He had heard of. the corruptions of an unreformed Parliament ; but he was quite sere that in the days of his youth no Minister would have dared to present such a vote to what it was the fashion to call a Tory Parliament. Ho objected to the vote of any more money for this subject. Mr. WILSON said that the vote before the committee had nothing to do with the purchase of land at Kensington, but he felt he ought to say a few words with regard to the title to that land. It was perfectly tine that the legal estate of this property was vested in the commissioners of 1851, but then that legal estate was subject to equitable rights and control which that house and the public could enforce. It was true this equitable right was based upon a mernorau dum which the hon. gentleman might call au understanding if ha p'eased, but which was binding upon the commission 'ery the acceptance which they had given to it. With regard to this vote, it was for erecting an iron building in the outlying' portion of the property, for the purpose of re moving•_it to the Marlborough house. establishment. Mr. HENLEY thought it must he admitted that it was necessary to find some place to which to remove the • con tents of Marlborough-house. He, however, doubted the economy of patting up temporary buildings. The estimate stated it was proposed to remove the temporary buildings at Marlborongh-house. These were wretched wooden sheds, which "had already been condemned as disgraceful to the metropolis, besides being very dangerous in case of fire. Sir . 3. 'SHELLEY would like to hear if this 10,0001. was for the mere renioval of the temporary buildings at Marl borough -1) o use. - Mr. WILSON said that the vote was chiefly for the purpose of erectieg an iron building on the property at Krsington. Mr. DISRAELI remarlce3 that these vote& did not com ensues a ith a ern sum, as his hon. friend (Mr. Spooner) seemed to suppose. The first vote proposed was 15J,030/., and the increase which had taken place was only to the extent of 25,0001., which was rendered necessary by the opportnuity which offered itself of purchasing a piece of land fitted to carry out the scheme in view. With regard to the title, he might say that it was not by the desire of the royal commissioners that the legal estate was vested in them, but by the express wish of the Government. The t-mporary building to which his hon. friend referred, and for which the house had voted money, hid not been raised at the desire of the Royal commission, but at the time it was planned the Museum of Science and Art was about to bo retneved from its sit'aation ; and several valuable collec tions, amongst others that of Mr. Turner, had been offered to the country, if a place, could be provided for them. It wee to meet these necessities that the Government deter mined to raise a temporary buil ling of iron and glass, and applied to the Royal cornini,sion to as ist them. He felt convinced that tha committee would tike a large view of the question, and remember that the first necessity of a country like Eoglend was to refitre and cultivate the taste of its people, and bring to the aid of its manufactures all the refinements of art. (Hear.) Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know what were the intentions of the Government with regard to Burlingto:- house? Mr. WILON said that at present no plan had been determined on for building on the site of Burlington house; but the Government were anxious to make the pre sent building available until circumstances would allow them to do so. An arrangement had, therefore, been, made, by which the London University would occupy the right wing for their ordinary examination. The centre build ing would be given up to the Royal, the Chemical, and the Linnrean Societies. In return for this accommo dation these societies would give up the rooms they now had at Somerset-house, which would become available for the Inland Revenue. The societies had further agreed to unite their three magnificent libraries, which would bo open to any person introduced by a fellow. (Hear, hear ) The left wing of the building would be converted, at a small expense, into a large hall, in which the annual examina tion of the London University and the weekly meetings of the three societies would be held. The Royal Society had further agreed to place their splendid collection of por traits in this hall, where they would be open to public in kpection. Mr. CARD WELL referred to the vote before Vet) house. It arose from the necessity of bringing the whole business of the department to Gore-house. Col.. BOLDERO wished to know whether the learned societies were to pay rent for Burlington-house. The best thicg the Government could do with the building would be to convert it into barracks, which were much wanted, and for which it was wall adapted. The vote was then agreed to. On the next vote, 21,700 for the new road from Pall-Mall to Beckingham - gate, and afoot-bridge across the ornamental water, Lord R. GROSVENOR, pursuant to notice, moved that it be deferred for six months, with a VieW to r e-considee a. tion of the subject of ireprovement in St. Jarnee's-park by a select committee of this house, before any expenditure is incurred for such purpose. He theuebt the motion . was at least premature. If the house voted this large sum they would add another to many failures in the so-called me ro pelitan improvements. Too great improvements which hid lately been made at Paris formed a great source of attrac tion for the thousands that docked there every year. With ono institution it might not be possible to emulate what had been done there, but matters might be managed better than they were. It wasimpossibleto say whose duty it was to propose or carry out any improvement—whether the corporation of London, the First ConainisSionet of Public Works, the Metropolitan Board of Works, or the Commis- ; signally failed. Having thus stated the objects of the bill sioners of the Metropolitan Roads. When the Metropolitan i he urged its second reading on the house. Board' , of Works was established, he had hoped that they Mr. SEYMOUR FITZGERALD moved that the bill had at last got a body which would he re9portible for these be read a second time that dey six months. Fic-roaretted matters ; but the• board had declined, and di;clared tbftt" , ; that , bo ices compelled to do so, hecanae his lootiC,n would they did not . believe they had vote, he believed, was founded on the mittee which had eat at the beginning of the sessioe A more discordant committee had never sat; the resolutions carried by the majority were not oven consistent with themselves ; the first resolution declared that, " in the opi nion of the committee, any considerable increase of traffic through the park was open to grave objection," but by subsequent resolutions they went on to recommend that a road for carriages should he made from Waterloo-place to Storey's-gate, and an entrance for carriages from Trafalgar square through Spring-gardens.. He was, perhaps, better acquainted with the parks and the habits of the people who frequent° 1 them than env member of the committee, and. he could say that they had neverelone anything for the good of the people and to promote their health which could come pare with the advantages of the perks, especially St. James's.- Let them recollect that the greatest traffic was at Charing cross, and that nothing could be more delightful than the power we possessed of changing in a moment its noise and bustle for green fields and lowing herds, " Paterfatuilies" and the children drinking new milk and eating rusks. Ad that was to be swept away, es ws and all, if this plan of the committee were adopted. The object was to accow ritodate Pimlico and Belgravie, and give both - access to the South-Western Railway. They could not get that now without coming against the greatest traffic. How did his lion. friend propose to provide for this necessity ? He pro posed a road through Pall-mall, taking down the German Chapel, and taking an immense number of turns before it got out of the Park. This would be no accommodation to Belgravia, and would be only an incomplete accommoda tion to Pimlico. in his opinion, if they were going to make a sacrifice of the park, at least let them snake a hand someone, and do it in consistency with common sense. They should crone Out at the bottom of St. James's-street: (Hear.) For this the consent of the Crown must be obtained, as they would have to go through the palace. He would then go straight across to the other side of the park. (Oh.) He though t also that the time had arrived when better accommodation should be provided for the ladies attending the drawing room. He now came to the enclosure, and ho quite ad mitted that it would be better not to go act oss it ; but let it not be imagined that it was the most useful part of the park for the working classes. Our young gamins cultivated their muscle, which was the best defence of the nation in the Green Park and on the Mall. It was there they played their games - and poked their fun. (Laughter.) Ho did not see the force of the objection to a bridge over the ornamen tal water. At Blenheim, Sir John Vauburgh, no bad judge, built a great bridge, not because it was wanted for transit, but because it afihr. led a fine point of view from the house. lie believed that the proposed bridge hare would be also an ornament. Besides, the embankment would hardly interfere with the view or the level of the park. It would be a compromise between Pimlico and Belgravia, and would give a fair amount of accommodation to both. If they laid it (town as a priueiple to take the smallest portion of the perk, and to give the greatest amount of accommodation, he thought that this plan would be the best notwithstanding all the clamour that hal been raised against it. He had not any personal feeling in the matter, his only object being to procure the greatest amount of accommodation for the public , at the smallest sacrifice. He thought that the matter had better be re considered, and therefore proposed that the vote be now negatived. Sir B. HALL was much surprised at the course which had been taken by his noble friend, but it was a desidera tum with any one that Belgravia should have a road through the park. Several plans had been submitted to the committee, and one vote involved the taking down of Cleveland-row, which would have involved au expense of 10),000/. It was refused, and a motion was carried de claring that the park should be as little invaded with traf fic and as little cat Hp as possible. Under these circron stances the present plan was adopted by 8 to 3, his noble fiieud voting iu the -majority. It was in a road. which was a road already, and would interfere the least possible with the park. Ho thought that this raid would meet the wishes of members as giving a road them- Pall-mall to Be!. gravia, without very roue' injuring the 'park, and there fore he trusted that under these circumstances the louse would allow so vexed a question to be at lest settled. Mr. SPOONER, said that the Government had already taken 10,000 W. to fit up Marlberough-house as a residence for the Prince of Wales, awl now it was proposed to make a public road through the court yard. How were these two propositions to be reconcile:)? Mr. TITE feared that the sudden turn by Marlborough house would be inconvenient and dangerous. By removing the present entrance by Marlborough-house to a little dis t mace, and taking in a r o,tion of the adjoining royal garden, they would lieve a road far 9001. ; whereas this plan would cast 21,900/. (Hear.) With regard to the Gurniau Chapel, he had letters from many architects, protesting against the pulling dorm of that building, which was a perfect gem in side. It was built by inigo Jones for Catherine of Bra ganza, in the reign of Charles 11., and had so many histo rical associations connected with it that it would be a great sacrifice to pull it down. With that view he placed on the piper the following motion :—"That the road from . Pall mall into St. James's-park be so placed that the necessity for pulling down and rebuilding the German Chapel be avoided, and that the 10,0001. provided for doing so be omitted in the estimate, thereby reducing the cost of the new road and other works t 01.4,7001." The CH A.IRAIAN said that he could not put the motion till that of the noble lord (Lord R. Grosvenor) was dis posed of. Sir J. PAXTON said that the German Chapel need not be destroyed ;it could be removed. With regard to the whole question Ito should like to see it stand over for a little time. (Hear.) Let thorn Open the prePent thorough fares and see how that would w( e.c, before they engaged in more expense. (clear.) That was the best thing to be done at present. He thought it would be invidious it the road was confined to certain classes. He decidedly objected to a foot bridge across the ornamental water in S. James's. There should be more entrances broken into the park, in addition to the Horse Guards one; and the present hurdles, which would disgrace Donnybrook fair, ought to be re moved. (I-leer.) Colonel BOLDER° said it was hardly fair to the com mittee to go back upon the decision which they had , arrived ut by a majority of Bto 3. There were other parts of the plan, hoWever, which were only carried by the casting vote of the chairman (tire right hon. bart). Mr. S. WORTLEY said that he formed one of the mino rity against the plea in the committee, and his objection to it was, that it gave a minimum of advantage at a great cost. (11sai, hear.) It interfered in a most objectionable manner with the adjoining petits. Dr. IiIICFIELL intended to vote with the noble lord, on the ground that the proposed arrangement was intended for the benefit of the few, to the prejudice of the many. He objected to those funrls which belonged to the country at large. and to which the whole population were compelled to contribete ' being drawn upon to improve the value of house property in London, Lord R. GROSVENOR said a few words in explanation of leis vote in the select committee on the Bth paragraph in the report. The committee divided upon the question that the amount of the vote be 24,7001. — Ayes 4y authority some members of the house whom they ware accua• tomed to meet and to respect, and because the property of inuoseut shareholders would he swept away if this bill was not passed. But it was at the same time a measure so cruel to small depositors and so injurious to the general policy relatieg to joint stock banks, that he felt bound to take this course. His hon. friend (Mr. Melina) had asserted that ho'had no design to whitewash the shareholders in the Tipperary Bank, but only improve the state of the law. He must give credit to that aesertim. But there was a suspicious haste in bringing in the bill both in the other house end in that, and especially in the bring,ing:on of the second reading after twelve o'clock when it was understood that course would riot be taken. It was clearly the object t het the bill should pass so soon as to becorne applicable to the Tipperary Bank. If that was not theintention, a pro visioe might be inserted in it preventing its having a re trospective effect. Ho was of oeinion that there was .no • language too strong to mark the criminal conduct of some persons connected with this bank, white of others who were less to blame, it roust be said that they were guilty of an almost criminal carelessness. There was yet another class who, being quite innocent, had had all their means swept away, and every sympathy should be felt for them ; but for time poorer depositors, who had also lost their alt, a nd wile) could net make their C.lBO heard in that house, still greater sympathy ought to be felt. This was apeculiar case of ex post facto legislation ; a kind of legislation always to be deprecates, for it was intended to vary the rights of parties interested in joint-stock banks, and to useet a particular case, in a manner which was s opposed to all the policy of legislation on this subject. To show the object of the measure it was only necessary to point out that the bill was passed through all its stages in the House of Lords between Monday and Friday, and the printed bill only reached Dublin after it had passed through the house. He believed that under the second clause it was competent for the representative of the creditors after he was appointed, to enter into a composition which should free the shareholders from all liability, and the creditors would be barred from all remedy under the Bankers' Act. Under that act every species of property of shareholders was liable to the creditors, and ho could not understand how if his hon. friend's bill was meant to be in the interest of creditors, how it could give them more than they now had under the present law. Would it not, in fact, din:d i:deli their rights? The proposal made in this bill differed from those in bankruptcy, to which it was said to assimi late the proceedin g s in bankruptcy, every estat e , j o i n t an d sepaiate vested in the assignee, and he was at once in the position to say whether or not a composition would be be neficial and equitable as between all parties. It was im possible to give the representatives of the creditors under this bill that knowledge of the separate estate of the share holder, which would enable him to judge of the really be neficial course for all parties. The representative of cre ditors could bind all who had nut proved their debts, as consenting parties to any compromise which might be en tered into. It was clear that the richest creditors living in a town near the bankrupt bank would be able to avail themselves of the provisions of the bill, while the poorer creditors dispersed over the country would be less able to do so. This bill would alter the whole system of credit on which joint-stock banks were established, for the deposi tors would no longer have the knowledge they now pos. reseed of those men who, as shareholders, were liable to their utmost property ; but they would only know of a list of men, who, by 'a collusive composition with an official manager, could deprive them of the 20s. in the pound, to which they would be entitled for the security on which they relied. On all these grounds, believing that the bill was intended to meet a particular case, and was opposed to the general policy on which joint-stock banks were founded. he moved the rejection of the second reading. Mr. HENLEY seconded the motion. He said he did - not see that there was any necessity for Mr. Malins to defend himself against any imputations which he thought had been cast on him. His hon. friend had relieved the house from one difficulty, for he had avowed that .the bill was int oided to apply to the Tipperary Bank. What was the only ground on which the assent of the horse was asked to this special legislation ? All that was tasked was that all the shareholders in a bank shoal I be placed in the hands of a kind of official assignee; but it was not proposed that all i heir property should vest in that functionary. It was said that the shareholders should have time to pay, but the creditors had trusted the bank on the faith of the pro perty and means of those shareholders ; and it was now' sought by this measure to remove all the liabilities of con tracts entered into between the, several parties interested in these banks by ex post facto legislation. This was open ing the door to ali sorts of collusion and jobbing; and, in short, tending to defraud creditors of what the law now allowed them, and he should oppose the further progress of the bill. Mr. F. HUME moved the adjournment of the debate. (No, no.) Mr. MA.LINS said he should be sorry to take a division at that hour, after his having given an assurance that he would not proceed with the bill after 12 o'clock, and there fore he would accede to the motion for adjournment. Mr. WHITESIDE said he should prefer going on then. Mr. BLAND did not think this a fair bill as between debtor awl creditor, 'nor did it put them in the same posi tion as in bankruptcy. He should assent to the amend ment, and vote against the second reading. The debate was then adjourned. NUISANCES REMOVAL (SCOTLAND) BILL. This bill was read a second time. SMALL DEBTS (SCOTLAND) BILL. The Small Debts Imprisonment Act Amendment (Scot.. land) Bill was psssed through committee. LONDON CoRPORATION BILL. On the motion for postponing the - second reading of this bill, Sir .T. V. SHELLEY inquired when it was likely to be brought on. It was .a most important measure, and con siderable anxiety was felt out of doors to know when it would be really brought forward for second reading. Sir G. GREY said ho could not answer that question until the remainder of the estimates were disposed of. He should certainly bring the bill forward on the first avail abla day after the whole of supply had been got through. The order for the second reading was then put for Mon day. SMOKE NUISANCES ABATEMENT BILL. The Smoke Nuisances Abatement (Metropolis) Act, 1853, Amendment Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. INSURANCES BILL. The Insurance on Lives (Abatement of Incomestax) Con tinuance Bill was read a second time and ordered to be committed. a7I:: c t Noes la2 Majority . A vote of 2,570/., for the cost of the new road across the park, was then put and carried. 6,1811. to the Clerk of Justiciary in Scotland as eons - pensation on the surrender of his patent, the °rap being abolished, was next voted. Mr. WILLIAMS moved that the vote should be omitted. After some explanation from the Loan ADvooATE, Mr. WILSON consented to withdraw the vote. The house then resumed. JOINT•STOCK COMPANIES WINDING-UP ACTS AMENDMENT BILL. Mr. MALINS moved the second reading of this bill. It had come down from the Home of Lords, having been there introduced by Lord Brougham, and sanctioned by the Lord Chancellor. Its object was to remedy a defect in the Wind ing-up Act of 1818, which left creditors to their remedies as before, after taking a proof of debt into the Master's office. Au idea had got abroad that this bill heti betel brought in to give protection to the shareholders in the Tip perary Bank. (Cries of " Hear, been"), He had no such object in view, nor could be be supposed to have, from his political connection. He disclaimed any sinister object in promoting this bill. The origin of the bill was this : Mr. Bacon ha i pointed out to him in court the imperfections of the Winding-up Act; one of which was that the share holders in the Tipperary B ,nk could not be made baekrupe. He had promised to intrcdeco a bill to leme ly this. The bill had been introduced tu the other house by L eel Broug ham, and he admitted that the failure of the Tipperary Bank wes the occasion of its being brought forward. (Hear ) It might be an advantage if this great public celainity led to the amendment of the law. In a company of 10 mem bers, the separate estate of every member would go to pay the creditors, and why should not this be the case in acorn pany of 100 member,. In the case of a bank, the moment it was proclaimed that payment was stopped, he who pro ceeded most rapidly obtained the spell, and a comparatively wealthy shareholder was assailed, as it were, by a pack of Woodhotteds. What he objected to was, a sin le litigious ereditorbeing allowed to have an advantage over the general body of creditors. One effect of the present state of things was, that a large portion of the property of the creditors was swallowed up in law expenses Some hon. gentlemen supposed the object of this bill was to whitewash the share. holders of the Tipperary Bank. (Hear.) That was not the fact. A call of 401. per share had already been made, and this call was equivalent to a judgment debt. If the shareholders' property was to be exhausted, let it be done by calls made from time to time for the benefit of all the creditors. If the party had a little time affsrded him he night be able to pay up, but if he were pressed for pay. meat suddenly the result was, perhaps, that he was ruined, and the shareholders obtained nothing from him. The machinery of the law at present enabled shareholders to coin pound among themselves, but it did nob make any composition binding on the creditors. The pima!) , ob ject of this bill was to enable the shareholders to elect one of their number to represent them as the official manager represented the creditors. 'Was that an object which de served the character that had been attributed to it ; or ought he to have been treated as he had been, out of that house at least, as if he lied raegiv(el a bribe to white. wash some political delinquents ? This bill, instead of being introduced on behalf of the shareholders, was pro moted by the larger creditors of the bank. As regarded the late Mr. Sedleir, he might o b serve th a t h e was i n th e h a bit o f visiting Buckinghamshire and Hertfordshire in consequence of.his connection with another bank, and the result was, he believed, that hundreds of persons who were induced to take shares now found themselves suddenly ruined. He admitted that all these persons possessed must to the last fertliing, if nocesssery, be applied in paying the debts of the company. By the second section of this bill he proposed that the Master should be enabled to call meet ings of the creditors. at which the creditors should !appoint a representative, and that this official person should.have the power " o f ma ki ng arrangements with the shareholders either for pay men t i n f u ll or f or p a yinent in part, giving time, ente r i ng i n t o compromises, and so on ; and that th e official persen who represented the sharehulderq should have the same power of compromising with the creditors that the assignee in bankruptcy noW possessed under the sanction of the court. It had been supposed by te ss i. tlemed from the other side of the water that his object was to release shareholders from their liability. Th a t would, in fact, be ineleNsible under an Irish net called "The B mkers' Act," the 3:ld. Goo. 11. By the 3d Fiecti`on of that act, from the moment any person became a banker his estate was {dodged to his creditors, and he could not afterwards make any settlemen t so as' to 'deprive his credi tors of the security of any pert of the es t ate. It was d es cide I in 1838 by Lord Plunkett that where a banker inalfe a settlement on his son and became bankrupt the setl meat was vol.]. This principle was applicaMe to joint stock banks, so that in the c tse of the Tipperary Bank, all shareholders possessing real estate were liable to the full ex tent of their property, so that if he had intended by his bill to protect the shareholders in that bank, he should have SUPPLY. The report of the committee ef supply was brought up and agreed to. DUBLIN METROPOLITAN POLICE BILL. On the question that the second reading of this bill be postponed until Monday, Idr. I. BUTT contended that .the bill ought to have originated in a committee o f th e w h o l e h ouse, as it in' valved making a charge on the consolidated fund. The SPEAKER said that might be so, but the proper time for raising the question would be on the motion for the second reacting. The order was then postponed. • ANNUITIES REDEMPTION. The house having gone into committee, : The CHANCELLOR of the. EXCHEQUER explained that in 1853 a number of charges then paid out of the gros s revenue was transferred to the votes, and certain heredi' tarp pensions were brought up, and paid for out o f tbe gross revenue. F our o f th ese purc h asea bl e pens i ons still remained, but it was considered obtainable to pay fur the° out of the gross revenue, and the object of the bill he Wa s about to brie , . * in was to transfer th e cos t t o th e consoli dated fund. Three of the pensions were for 1,000/. a-Ye'` r each, and the other for 375/. a,year, and they would be specifically referred to in the bill. A resolution upon which to found such a measure was then agreed to, and the house having resumed, leave WO givon to bring in the bill, - SELECT COMMITTEE ON THE SOUND DUES. gio:1 the motion of the CHANCELLOR , of the EXCHEQUO I4 the following members were appointed a select committe e 4.n. the Sound Dues : —Tire Chancellor of the Excheqtler' Mr. Disraeli,- Mr. Villiers, Mr. Newdegate, Mr. Cardwel l L-r.l Manley, Mr. Mitchell, Viscountess Chelsea, PI, Milner Gibson, Mr. Bramley-Moore. Mr. Hutt, Mr. Reber' . Phillimore, Mr. Deasy, and Mr. Duncan. MR. ALB ANO, THE ARCHITECT. On the motion of Sir B. HALL, a select committee WA appointed to inquire into th charges made by Mr. Alban?, for services at Paris and M a d r id, an d o th er i tems include?, in Class No. 7 of Estimates, &c., Ci v il S erv i ces , N o s. 2 7 and 30. The house adjourned at five minutes to two o'clock. [A.DVERTISEMENT].—HoIIoway's Ointinent and Pi llll remarkable for their efficacy in curing Bad Legs.—Mr& !Reason, of 12, Queen's Gardens, Brighton, had suffered, with Erysipelas in her legs for the last ' 15 years an altllough she obtained the best medical aid, and trial every remedy that could he procureJ, yet she derived no benefit until she used Holloway's Ointment and Pills. These invaluable medicines have effected a pi , rfect Or e ', notwithstanding Mrs. R eason was in th e 68th year of her agP and she now eiiiys better he a lth th an f o r WO years before. Sold by all Medicine Vendors through' out the world ; at Professor Holloway's establishment ° 244, Strand, London, and 80, Maiden lane, New York by A. Stamps, Constantinople; A. Guidicy, s in yrne , an'l E. Muir, Malta. • B I ►t T 11 S. OP & SON. On the 4th itst., at Lee-road, Blackheath, the wife °I F. J. Turner, Esq. On the 1.1 inst., at Grendon Rectory, the wife of tb ° Rev. Henry Hanmer. OP A DAUGU'rI'2. --------- On the 4th inst., A 32, Thurlee-square, Brompton, i te wire of William Waters Waters. On the sth inst., at 34, Kildare.torrace, WestboarD e " park, the wife of the Rev. Ronald Macpherson. MARRIED. Oa the sth inst., at St. Georga's, Hanover-sqaare, Henry Orde, Esq., son of Lady Eli za b e th O r d e and tper late General James Orde, to M argare t Barclay, daugh'ed of •Daniel Gurney, Esq., of North Runcton, Norfolk , a 0 the late Lady Harriet Gnrney. On the sth inst.; at Christ Church,'Newgate-street, *Or; Gibbon, Esq., of C o ll ege - roa d, H an i ps t ea d , t o Hanno, and, at the sam e ti me , Ed war d Hill , E sq. ; t o A.delaja? daughters of Nathaniel D a n t l o , Esq., of Upper Nor Surrey, DIE% • Oa tho sth inst., at 25, Brompton square, Robt. Brown' Esq., Paymaster R.N., aged 74. der Crichton, lit., M.D., F.R.S., formerly physician On the 4th inst., at the Grove, Sevonoaks, Sir Alex an ' to 11-LAI. Alexander 1., Emperor of All the Russia n, sged 93. On the 4th inst., at Hampton, near Bath, Gen. Towne. end Browne, Esq., youngest son of tho late Right tfoo. Col. A.itlinr Browne, M P. for Mayo co. On'the 24 inst., at 6, Salamanca-terrace, Brompton, P. Foster, Esq , late of the Bank of England. On the Ist inst., at Menrice's Hotel, Paris, the Rov. Ci• Alexander Lines, son of John lunes, Esq., of 43, Porches' ter terrace, Bayswater, aged 29. On the 4th Wt., at Port Royal , Jamaica, of yellow fever' illiatu Orde Massey, Acting Lieut. of her Majesty's 0 13 iP .Malacca, eldest sou of Win. Massey, Esq., M.P. Losporr s Printed cad Public - boil by Iffil.RDO .11.011.140' rif No. 1.12, '3treat - I, ut Me Sim Office, Se, 3 is Prgoi.rei: of the Savoy, in the c ount, of Saturd4y, June 7, 1156. WI da: ord Per;