The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-23 00:00:00

Fi 0 USE OF LORDS, MARCH 22. Lord ROLLE pre4, rated a petition from Exeter agains:- 11,';)cm, observing that he concurred entirely with irF prayer. The Duke of RICHMOND wished to ark the Noble 1.001 one question. He (Lord Robe) had presented a pe tition against the Reform proposed by his Majesty's Mi mst•rs, but he (the Duke of Richmond) wished to know whether the. Noble Lori did not feel convinced that the voice of the country was unanimously in favour of it. Lard ROI : LE did not feel himselfc died upon to answer that question, but he himself was against it. The Marquis of SALISBURY admitted there was a 'strong feeling in the country in favour of Reform. The Marquis of CLANRICA[tDE bore testimony to the nearrimitv that prevailed all over the country in favour of the question. Petmons were presented by the Duke of Gloucester, against slavery ; by the Earl of Aberdeen, from Aber (ben, against the proposed duty on timber, and from the same place ag inst the duties on steam-vessel passen• gers ; by. the Duke of Norfolk, from Paddington, it, favour of Reform ; by the Earl of Radnor, from Cal- Jington, to the same effect; by Lord Candor, from a pa rish in Wales, to the same effect; by the Marquis of Cleveland, from Shrewsbury, in favour of Reform and ex pressing their approbation of the conduct of his Majesty's Ministers ; by the Marquis of Devonshire, from Down, against slavery. Sir A. GRANT and others from the Commons brought up several private Bills. The Bills on the table were for warded a stage. The LORD CHANCELLOR presented upwards of one hundred petitions from different parts of the country, in favour or the measure proposed by his Majesty's Mi nisters for Reform. BANKRUPTCY JUDICATURE BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR stated that he had had no answer as yet from the Lord Chief Baron, and therefore be would at once fix the second reading of the Bank ruptcy Judicature Bill for Monday, the 18th of April. The House must meet on the 13th, as the Judges were summoned for that day, although it might meet earlier. There was another Bill which he had not forwarded even one stage, as the Noble Chief B a r on h a d i nt i mate d t h at _ . he bad serious objections to it, and he was desirous, there fore, that be should be present when it should be proposed for reading for the first time. There were two other Bills which had been brought in—one of them relative to the administration of the Registers and Six Clerks' Offices. As to these, -he had gone through an account of the say inL,s, and found that what he had stated on a former occa sion was much within the mark. He bad taken the average of the income of the Commissioners at 300/. a but he now found that it was 4001., and that some lists made seven or 8001. a year—all which must occa sion great contentment to the Learned Gentlemen, but had occasioned great discontent to the merchants, bankers, and principal traders of London, 4,500 of whom had peti tioned against their continuance. Now, after the Insol- vent Debtors' Court had taken away much of the busi ness fiom the Commissioners, that Court being pre ferred, old they had—taking the average of the years 1828, 1529, and 1830—a revenue, from the ties, of 63,197!. This was when the business of bankruptcy was at a low ebb, for the average of some previous years would have made the revenue, from the fees 411 suitors, 100,0001. It was now reduced to 63,1971. By the present plan the fees would be reduced to 34,8001., or, if their Lord.hips chose to take away the fees of the Lord Chancellor and give him 7,000/. in some other wav, the expen-e would he only 27,000/. Supposing then that the Lord Chancellor was still to be allowed 7,0001. out of the fees, the saving to the suitors from the fees would he 20,0001 ; if the Lord Chancellor should be paid out of another fund, then the saving would be 36,000/. Then, as to the .51,000/. out of the fees to the master, that would he reduced by the salaries to 38,0001. There were other material savings, mate by the Bill, which would make the whole saving 67,5001., or, if their Lordships chose st;11 to give 7,500/. out of the fees to the Lord Chan- celior, the saving would still be 60,0001. It might be said that was trifling in a State where the public expen diture was so many millions. But then, with reference to the euitors it was a most important saving —particularly in copy money, and matters of that sort, which would be completely lopped off. He did not, however, put his plan forward on the ground of economy, his Noble Friend on the Cross Brileh being the first who pill, it on that footing. The great object was to have justice well and expedit'ously administeied, but there was no objection to god and expeditious justice, so that it was also cheap. Lord WYNFORL) strongly suspected that his Noble and Learned Friend's ealcuiations had been founded on fella, y, and that, when he Nt,ted the revenue of the Com mi,sioners at 63097/, be must have included in the average tie year 1826, when there was but too much business done before the Commissioners of Bankrupts. He hoped that the Noble and Learned lord would favour bin with the grounds materials from which he made his calculations, that they might be on a level with him self in that respect. He had some knowledge of bank "ruptey himself, anal its expenoes, although his practice had Veen eit fly before superior Courts; and the conclusion to winch he came was entirely different from that of his Na*le and Learned Friend. As to the alleged saving of 60,0001 , he was sure there must be a great fallacy in that. his Noble and Learned Friend must have in. chided the fee• of solicitors ;n the amount of savings, but these would not be saved, for the fees of solicitors must be paid as before. lie undertook to prove that the charge f,a• tie C,mmissoners did net exceed 21,0001. Then, by the new plan, there were ten Judges, two registers, and seven chief clerlss,lesides a body of assignees ; and he was persuaded that tie expence would much exceed that of the present Co►nmissioners instead of falling below it, if the offices should be filled be men capable of doing the duties. He wi-bed that his N.ble and Learned Friend would lay en the tahle an analysis of the materials on which he made his calcuNtions, and rhen he Velieved it would he maul e,t that there would be no saving, but the contrary. As for the London petition, be was not surprised at that, because th e eh a ry s Ilia ought to rent on them chiefly would be laid on the whole kingdom. No doubt the plan would be very palateable to them; but whether it would be so to the rest of the country wai another question. lie hoped his Noble and Leirned Friend would lay the papers and accounts on which he relied on the table, that they might be exalcined by a Committee if necessary. He did net mean to lbject to the measure on the ground of increased expense, but his object was to saddle the whole country with that expense which ought to be borne by the commercial classes of London, and to that be objected. 'The Bill ought not to have originated, in this Muse, but in the other, where it would have been examined by a Committee, and the expenses accurately inquired into. The LORD CHANCELLOR—His Noble and Leirned Fi lend sail that he knew nothing of the details of the Bill. Lord WYNFORD—He had not said so; on the con ti ary, he had examined them very minutely. Tie LORD CHANCELLOR—His Noble and Learned Fri,nd then thought that he hi.d examined them, and he l'ettainy did not mean to mislead their Lordships. But he (the Lord Chancellor) knew that he was wrong. His Noble and Le4rned Friend still put the matter on the pround of economy and cheapness, but that was not the main object. If there were one hundred reasons for the measure, he would alow ninety-n;ne to he exclusive of economy, and only considered that as the hundredth. There was always a clamour against Reform among ti,ose with whom Reform of any kind was at a discount, There fore it was said that this would be a dear Bill. His Noble and Le &rned Friend said that the expense of the Commissioners was only twenty-one thousand pounds, and that he could-not tell on what ground his (the Lord Chau- ce!lor's) calculations had been founded. But what if he bad asked the Commissioners themselves, bad sent circu- !ars to them, and had got twenty returns, on which, taken at rdndorn, he had calculated his averages ? That wa., however, the fact, and he had found that the average for each Commissioner was 410/. The returns from the other fifty he WWI persuaded would not alter the average, and there were two of the lists whose returns would have raised • : st, and these were part of the documents on which he had proceeded. His Nolde and Learned Friend h a d s a id that he must have taken the years 1825-6 into account in calculating the average income of the Commissioners. He had distinctly years, but calcuatite4eti stated that he had not taken these had averages of the years 1828, 1829, and 1830. t tal: his eyes, Mend, but if be 6 0 .. t t not . misled his Noble and Learned b mice for not being able he had himself to awl verse, but still his Noble He bad quoted chapter ZdeLearned Friend could not sic, or intorrnati coonuld6 oni orkly the uffice see on on of the e aid se He had a l so procure d o were the and that, with the returns of the Coc,,,rmetm7 of Bank ru pt s , most accurate that could be found on thr L a • üb ners, could be no fallacy, for it was a mere n matte r oifec attbmetie. There sinless lie supposed that the Secretary f Bankrupts and the Commissioners themselves falsified the returns, W hi ch would be an extravagant supposition. These were the grounds on which he had calculated that the revenue of Cie C o mmissioners, Irons the fees was 63,1971. He sp o k e .... _. . from chapter and versa. Him Nob:e and Learned Friend said that he knew lit le about the expences of bankruptcy, he showed him that be knew nothing. His -&1_,14 and Learned Friend said that he did not wonder at the petition of the merchants and bankers of London, and vet he had, on former occasions, spoken in the highest terms of the importance of their sentiments when they gave their opinions on a state question, of which perhaps they knew little, and new he held their notions cheap when they gave their opinions on a subject with which they were thoroughly acquainted. Who doubts, said his Noble and Learned Friend, that the merchants and bankers of London find the scheme very palatable, as it would saddle the whole kingdom with an expence that they ought to bear ? But how did the matter stand ? The Commissioners were paid by the fees—fees from the suitors or creditors of the bank rupts—and the new Judicature would still be paid out of the fees, but the amount of these fees would be diminished. There would he no transfer of the burden to the public, as hia Noble and Learned Friend seemed to suppose. There was net a shadow of foundation for his objection. The axpence was to be paid out of the fees from the suitors' or creditors' estates.—(Lord Wyseotto—Hear, hear. There was nothing of this in the Bill.) Aye ; Hear, hear ! but listen. It was nut in the Bill, for it Was not to be supposed that it was to commence with a preamble of " whereas the cost and expences of the existing method of conducting matters in bankruptcy, and so forth ;" such a preamble would be merely useless gossip. But he had distinctly stated, that the savings which he hail state,' were to be made by the diminution of the fees. The compensation to the Commissioners was to come from the dead fund of the suitors in Chancery ; and if he took out of that fund the amount of the compensation, he put into it 6,0001. which, by the pres e nt system, was paid to the eleven Masters in Chancery. And then this compensation was to last only fur the lives of the Commissioners, or until they got other appointments. It was a mistake to say that these bankruptcy matters had nothing to do with the Court of Chancery. The ultimate appeal was to the head of the Court of Chancery, fur there was no appeal from him to the House of Lords. But suppose that the cumpensa ought not to lie taken out of that fund, he might leave it , . there, but then he would come upon it for the Vice-Chan cellor and the Master of the Rolls, who were certainly connected with the Court of Chancery. The fund con sisted. in a great measure, of accumulations of interest, upon interest which could never be called for, and was, therefore, to a certain extent, applicable to public pur poses, and had been dealt with by Parliament upon that principle. As to the documents on which he had made his calculations, all of them might he laid on the table of the House, if their Lordships chose to call for them. He was ready to brine them before the House, and to answer for their correctness. The number of Judges was to be 20 instead of 70, and there was to be a great retrench ment in the department of the clerks. The expellee of new Judges would he 20,0001.. and 13,000/. was to he allowed for other officers, which would render the ex pences of the whole establishment about 33,0001. or 31,000/. instead of 63,197/. ; and even if he had chosen to be more stingy, there were abundance of able and competent men, who would be very glad to accept the appointments. But he repeated, that he did not pot for ward this plan on the footing of economy. The object was not to render justice cheap to the public, but 41 n der it cheap to the suitor. But cheap justice might be dear. It was the first duty of the pubic to render the administration of justice as perfect and expeditious as possible, without regard to the expence ; for injustice, however cheap, must always be dear. Lord WYNFORD, after some additional observations, moved for a❑ order to the Commissioners to lay the returns o n the table. The LORD CHANCELLOR said there was some difficulty in point of form, as the Commissioners were not public officers, and had no general office to which the order was addressed. But he was a public officer, and would lay the returns on the table. - It was, after some further convers-ition, agreed that it should he directed to the Secretary of Bankrupto, after which the motion %Via put and carried. REFORM. Earl GREY presented a petition in favour of the Mi nisterial plan of Reform from the county of Northuinher land, agreed to at a county meeting held at Morpeth.— He bad before presented a petition for Reform gerierahy, from the same county, but they had thought it proper to assemble the county again, in order to petition in favour of this specific plan of Reform. Ifis Lordship, in the ab sence of a Noble Duke (Bedford), also presented two petitions to the same effect, one from the inl4abitants and the other from the Corporation of Bedford. The Corpo ration expressed their readiness to sacrifice their own pe• culi.ir privileges to the good of the community. This was highly creditable to the Corporation of Bedford. His Lordship next presented a heap of 42 petitions to the ,me effect, from a variety of places, among which were Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Nlontrose, Leith, the parish of Sr. Bride's, London, &c. Lard DURHAM presented a petition to the same effect From 25,000 of the operatives of Glargow. The peti tion was well worthy of attention, in reference to what hid been said about ulterior objects. The petitioner) stated, that, although they would have no votes under this plan, yet they highly approved of it, because it would be a great good to the cmntry, end would secure to them- selves, as well as others, good representation. They stated that they weie hostile to revolution ; for that, although they had little to lose, they wished to enjoy in peace and security the fruits of their labours. His Lordship then presented another petition, to the same effect, from a dif ferent class of persons—namely, the inhabitants of the parist, of St. James, Westminster. All these petitions were laid on the table. Lord MELBOURNE gave notice that he would move the second reading of the Sub-letting Bill on Tuesday.— Adjourned. HO USE OF COMMONS, 41.42e11 In consequence set there being a ballot for a Committee on the Forfar Election, the gallery Wall not opened till Half-past Four Air. 31.KINNON presented a petition f:orn Ipswich in favour of the plan of Reform propesed by Ministers. Mr. J. SMITH presented a similar petition from Lime. house. Alderman WAITHSfAN had several petitions to pre sent in favour of Parliamentary Reform. As the prayer of the petitioners in each was similar, he would not occupy the time of the House with any observations, but merely remark that the whole of them were moat e• spectably signed. The petitions were then preserved. They were from the parish of St. Sepulchre, from the ward of Bridge-street, from St. Bride's, front Bloomsbury and St. Giles's, and from Greenwich. Alderman WOOD presented a petition in favour of Reform, from the ward of Aldgate. Admiral SOTHERON would take that opportunity of informing the House that his Hon. Colleague bad a pe tition to present from Nottingham, which was signed by 2.300 of the inhabitants. He had been instructed to support that petition, but could not do so.---( Hear.) He came down to the House, yesterday, determined to vote for the second reading of the Bill—(Hear)—but after hearing the debates of last night be could not conscien tiously do so.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear, hear," from all parts of the House.) Although a petition was resented in its favour from the place he had had the honour of representing fit five successive Parliaments, yet, after the speech that closed the debate of last night, he could no longer give the measure of Ref,rtn his support. Lord J. RUSSELL had no doubt the Gallant Admiral was honest in his avowal. He had no doubt he was nut actuated by fear or importunity. But really there was something inconsistent in his conduct, after hearing the first debate, and declaring his approval, to turn round and sty he could not vote for the second reading.---( Hear.) The Gallant Admiral had changed his opinion from heating only a part of the debate on the second reading ; he had not waited to hear the arguments against the objections raised last night—( Hear)—they were capable of bein g in stantly dispelled. He would repeat, he had no oubt the Gallant Admiral had acted honestly, but he must say that he had pursued a course not consistent with justice or honour as a Member of that Ilouse.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") . . . . . _ iked. Sir J. YORKE could not ac q uiesce in the opinion of the Noble Lord. Gallant Friend had made a noble stand, and he would go hand in hand with Lim.—(Hear.) Lord ALTHORP—His Noble Friend had complained that the Gallant Admiral should have made up his mind without hearing the whole of the arguments, and thought he was perfectly right in making such complaint. Corning down, as he declared he did yesterday, to support the second reading, he ought in common justice to have waited till the clue of the arguments before be avowed a change of opinion. The Hon. Member for Weymouth had argued against the measure in the last speech that was delivered last night. But that speech was capable of be ing answered ; therefore he should surely have waited until an opportunity offered of so doing.—(llear.) An HON. MEmava, whose name we could nut learn, defended the conduct of the Gallant Admiral. Alderman WOOD presented petitions from freeholders of the county of Kerry; from .1. Sparrow, a liveryman of th e city of London, and from the wards of Cheap and Billingsgate, in favour of the 111inisttrial plan of Parlia mentary Reform. Air. PRINGL E prevented a petition front Selkirkshire, againat the R e f orm B ill. The Hon. Member co i nc i de d with the p ra y er ut the Lord JOHN petition.—(Hear.) RUSSELL. (at a quarter to 6ix) moved the resumption of the debate on the second reading of the Reform Bill. A conversation took place between Sir C. Wetherell, Sir G. Clerk, Mr. Ward, Mr. G. Baukes, Mr. Cavendish, Sir 'l'. Baring, Lord Stormont, and Mr. Hume, respecting the propriety of allowing further time for the presentation lif petitions. Mr. CALCRAFT said that as he intended to vote for the second reading of the Bill—(Continued cheering)—he stood up to request aat time might be given for the recep. lion of petitions in that House, whether they were for or against the measure. Lord JOHN RUSSELL said that as the Right Hon. Gentleman had put his request in so agreeable a manner. (A laugh and cheers)—it would be quite impossible not to .ieccde to it. He should, therefore, not object to the pre sentation of petitions up to seven o'clock. Mr. F. PALMER presented a petition in favour of Re form from Reading. Colonel PEEL (as we understood) presented a petition from Norwich aeain,t Reform. Lord STANLEY presented peti ions from Warri n gton , Stockport, 13Iackhurn, andother places, in favour of Reform. Mr. SANDFORD presented similar petitions from Chard, Wellington, GListonbury, Frome, and other places. Lord EBRINGTON presented similar petitions from Bethnal.ereen, Plymouth, East Stoneh,use, Devonport, and Ashburriliam. Sir H. HOWARD presented a similar petition from Worthing. Lord VILLIERS presented a petition from Rochester against the disfranchisement of the freemen of Rochester The ATTORNEY-GENERAL presented petitions favour of Reform, from Andover, Monmouth, and another place. Mr. HUNT presented peti'ions from Newtown (Lan cashire), Whitehurch, and Eldersley, to the same effect. Mr. S. RICE presented a petition to the same effect !root Limerick ; also one from an individual. Mr. NORTH asked when the Irish Reform Bill would be introduced ? Lord ALTHORP said, Ise believed it was prepared, and it would be speedily brought in. He did not, how ever, see how its introduction could assist the debate on the present Bill. Mr. G. DAWSON complained, that no opportunity was afforded to gentlemen connected with Ireland, to form their opinion on the measure, He had no doubt that, if the Bill was before the House, it would produce a very different feeling in Ireland from that which was supposed. As it was, it had already raised the greatest alarm ; and, in his opinion, the people of Ireland had a right to feel both offended and indignant at the measure. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that the people of Ireland were neither offended nor indignant; on the contrary, they were filled with delight.--(Cheers.)—They certainly thought that the Bill was capable of improvement ; but they trusted to the same wise spirit that had dictated the present mea sure; and they had no doubt, that when the general mea sure was carried, the Bill fur Ireland would be amended. MerG. MOORE said, that the present Bill did not give satisfaction to Ireland ; for never had such dismay and horror been felt in that country, as on the proposal of this measure.—(Cheers, and a laugh.) Mr. 0. O'CONNOR said a few words, which were in audible. Colonel TRENCEI wished to know whether the Bill which the Irish people were said to approve so much of, was the Bid, the provisions of which had been explained by the Noble Lord, or the Bill which the Hon. Member for Watt- rford had explained in his speech. He believed that the Irish would not support the Government Bill, but a Bill such as that the Member for Waterford had de scribed, and that when they knew the provisions of the Government measure, they could not be fivourably dis posed towards it. At any rate, it was true that Bill was laid on the table. Mr. BROWNLOW wished also that the Bill should be laid on the table, and printed and circulated through Ire land, and he was sure that would be acceptable to the people of that country. He knew that the Protestants o the North of Ireland, and he was authorised to state it, did highly approve of the measure of his Majesty's 'Aliiiisters. Sir 11. lIARDINGE thought at least the Bill should be immFdiately hid on the table, and be Oared that the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland would pledge himself, whatever might he the result of the debate that evening, to lay it on the table in the course of the evening. Sir J. NEWPORT knew that at least, in one part of Ireland, the provisions of the Bill for Ireland had been rightly appreciated, for he had on Saturday presented a petition from the Corporation of Waterford, in support of the measure of his Majesty's Ministers. That Corporation prayed that the Bill—the whole Bill—might p.ss into a law. Sir G. CLERK complained that the measure should be so well known in Ireland as to he commented on, while the Members of that House were kept in ignorance of its con tents. It bad been made known to the people, but not to their representatives. Even the Irish Members were not acquainted with it. When the Irish people were hilly acquainted with it, they might treat it as the Scotch treatd the 13i11 that was to apply to that country, which, when it was known, excited their dissatisfaction., Mr. STANLEY expressed his surprise to hear the ob servations of the Right Hon. Baronet. The Right Hon. Baronet first complained that the Members of the House did not know, and could not guess at the provisions of the Irish Bill ; and then, with extraordinary consistency, as. veiled that the Irish people would be sure to be displeased with it when they knew it.—(Cheers.) The Irish people placed, he was happy to say, a just confidence in his Ma jesty's Alinisters ; and the Hon. and Right Hon. Gentle torn in opposition, complained of them for bestowing that confidence. A complaint was made that the Bill for Ire land hod not been brought in ; he had intended to do that, hut did nut think it very necessary, while the House was engaged with the discussion of the main question. When that was disposed of, the House might argue the details of the Irish Bill. He must express his surprise to hear the Members of the Opposition say that they were ignorant of • the principles, and ignorant of the object of that Bill, when his No'de Friend had distinctly explained that it would be to destroy the rotten boroughs—(Cheers)—to throw open, but not disfranchise, all the other boroughs, and generally to extend the elective franchise.—(Hear.) The Right Hen. and Gallant Officer required him to • pledge himself to lay the Irish Bill on the table, and state the details of the Irish measure, whatever might be the fate of the main question. So that would, he thought, be treating the House with great disrespect ; and it would, in fact, be as absurd to bring that forward after the great question was disposed of, should it be disposed of as the Hon. Gentleman opposite wished—as it would be to dis cuss the Evesham Bill when the great question was dis posed of as they did not wish.—(Cheers.) He should be ready to bring forward that Bill when the House—as he :rusted it mild—had concurred with the whole of the people of Eng Lind, Scotland, and Ireland—(Cheers, and no, uo,)—in giving its assent to the great principle of re forming the representation. When that was done, he should be ready to meet the Hon. and Right Hon. Gentle men opposite on the details of the Irish measure. Sir GEORGE MURRAY said that it did appear to him extraordinary that the Bill for Ireland was not Lid on the table if it were ready. He concurred in the ob•er rations of his Right Hon. Friend (Sir George Clerk.) Sir H. FIAMSINGE and several other Members rose at :he same time to address the House, but Sir Henry was met with loud cries of " Spoke, spoke," and he sat down, allowing us only to hear the words—" Not to lay the 13111 on the table is very unfatr." Mr. D. BROWNE was sati , fled that the great ma jority of the people of Ireland approved of the measure of his Majesty's Ministers. It was more than the people of Ireland expected ; it was more than he expected ; and he teas delighted when he heard the details of the noble measure.--(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He was sure that the more it was known in Ireland the more it would be Colonel TYRELL thought that the Irish Members, who were so sure of the approbation of the Irish people for a measure which was not yet known, must not only see more than other people, but even foresee.—(llear. ) Lord L. GOWER must also express him astonishment that the Bill was not laid before the House. He could nit separate the Irish measure from the English measure; and neither could it be considered isolated from the other. In fact the whole measure was the most extensive, the most sweeping, he might call it the most imperial measure, which had been brought forward since the revolution of 1688. Sir C. WETHERELL also complained that the Irish Bill was not before the House, and expressed his opinion that the Irish who approved of it must have great pre science. Of course, as the Right ifin. Secretary for Ireland said, he was ready with the Bill, be would not duubt his word, but if t!,e Right Hon. Gentleman had not asserted that, he should have bee❑ disposed to believe the Irish Bill was as yet as green as a shamrock—that it was not yet drawn, and lay in some of the unopened drawers of the serutoir at Derrinane, to be brought for-ward when the lion. Member for Waterford pleased. lie could not help adverting to the manner in which that lion. Member had been applauded ; and adverting to that he did not hesitate to say that these were signs, he did not assert of agreement, but of diplomatic approximation of amicable tendencies b, tween the Hon. 31ember for Water• ford and the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. He said tendencies,•though he knew that word was not liked ; but he certainly saw tendencies of approximation between per sons who he did not think could approximate if the Go vernment acted a fair and independent part.—(No, no.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL was surprised to hear his Hun. and Learned Friend assert that the Irish Bill was yet in the drawers of some scrutoire at Derrinane, because he (the Attorney-General) had cheered the Hon. Member for Waterford. Last night his Hon. and Learned friend (Sir E. Sugden), in a speech in which he had en tered into a long discussion on the details of a Bill on its Second reading, and this night again his Hon. and Learned Friend had implied that the Government had compro mised with the Hurt. Member for Waterford. He did not use to repel that charge on the part of that Hon. Mem ber, but to ask his Hon. and Learned Friend if it was fair to infer, because Ministers approved of what fell from an :ndividual Member on a political subject, that there must be some approximations and amicable negociations be tween him and them. There must, forsooth, be negocia tions, and this must be openly stated in the House of Com atose, because the Ministers, when gentlemen of great talents and eloquence had made an able speech, had done him justice—(Cheers) —when the papers, connected with this subject, were laid on the table, it would be seen that no such negociation had ever been entered into by his Majesty's Government, and that there was no ground whatever fur the imputation made, which was m ide in a manner as ir regular as it was unjust. His Hon. and Learned Friend spoke of approximations and amicable tendencies, hut had certainly lost sight of his usual candour in making that inference. There were, indeed, approximations among gentlemen on the other side, though hew amicable they were, he could not say—(Cheers)—but there were such Approximations and tendencies on Friday night on the question of the timber duties—that question to which the late Government stood pledged—(Cheers)—and pledged to carry i n t o di', et—that alteration which, on Friday night. Was OppOSed.-(Cheers.) From those negociations and amicable approximations, it happened that, on Friday night, the Ministers were left in a minority.—(Hear, hear. ) If gentlemen exulted in that minority—( Hear, hear)—if they were proud of the approximations and amicable negotia tions which led to it, he, fir one, did not envy them their success, nor wish to imitate the means by which it was obtained. He was reminded by the whole of the present debates, of the debates on the Catholic question, the de cision on which was to leave no second Catholic question behind it ; but which marked out for exclusion, and ac tually excluded the single man who, of all others, had con tributed to the success of that great and healing measure. Mr. GOULBURN would only say, that his Majesty's late Government was not pledged to make the alteration in the timber duties. The statement that it was, was not correct, and he was sure the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Poulett Thomson) would bear him out in his assertion. Mr. POULETT THOMSON rose to answer the appeal which the Right Hon. Gentleman had made to him, and said he should be most willing to confirm thestatement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, hut he confessed that he was notable to do so by any infOrmation lie possessed. Although not prepared to say that he possessed any information which convinced him that his Majesty's late Government was prepared to submit any measure for the alteration of die timber duties, yet the intOrmation he possessed must greatly deceive him —lie must be greatly mistaken, if it was not the intention of the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Member for Harwich, to submit to his colleagues a measure fur the alteration of the timber duties. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite asked.—(Question, question. )—ale appealed to the House _he had been publicly appealed to—and was bound to answer. The Right Hon. Gentleman asked him a ques tion, and he could only say, that he believed that it was in the contemplation of his Majesty's late Government to alter the timber duties, though that was coupled with another measure to give relief to the ship-owners. At that time he enjoyed a portion of the confidence of that body, and he was one of a deputation which had waited on the Right Hon. Gentleman on the subject; and though they received no confirmation of their hope of obtaining re lief, they received an intimation that it was most likely something would be done with those duties—the proposed alteration in which the Right lion. Gr ntleman voted against the other night. Mr. HERRIES felt it necessary to state, that the in formation of the Right Hon. Gentleman was totally erro neous.—(Cheers.) He had never contemplated fur one moment the view mentioned by the Right Hon. Gentle man—he had never contemplated any measure which would have the effect of destroying the whole shipping, amounting to 200,000 tons, engaged in the Canada trade. —(Hear, and a laugh.) He had never contemplated for one moment such an alteration of the timber duties as would deprive the British ship-owner and the Canada pro prietor of the preponderance they now enjoy. He could appeal to his Right Hon. Friend who sat near him (Mr. Courtenay, we believe) for his intention. Had the Right Hon. Gentleman any report?—Could he produce any do cument?—Had lie any document to prove his statement, or did he rely on the information supplied by some subor dinate person, which was not right? He claimed dis tinctly to be believed, and he called on the House to put faith in his assertion, that he never had contemplated such an alteration as would occasion the inconveniencies stated on a former evening by the Noble Lord,—(Question.) Petition laid on the table. Lard ALTHORP moved the order of the clay for re suming the adjourned debate. Mr. O'CONNELL rose, but was met by loud calls of " Order !" and " Question !" He had a right, he said, to oppos e the motion if he pleased, and a right, therefore, to speak on it. He had been several times alluded to, and made a topic of remark in the House, arid he thought the House would not behave with its usual courtesy if it did not allow him to say a few words. lie bad heard the Ex- So licitor -General and the Ex-Attorney-General, last night and that night, throw out insinuations in relation to hint and the Government. Both these gentlemen be longed to the same profession as he did, but he was glad that they did not belong to the same bar, for it was at rule of that bar that no member of it should ever voluntarily engage in a criminal prosecution; but those two Learned Gentlemen seemed to volunteer to prosecute him. That was not creditable conduct. He had been accused by the late Solicitor-General, too, of arrogance, in a tone which he would not call arrogant, but which, not to be arro gant, was the most like arrogance of any thing he had ever heard.—(A laugh.) He had been accused of looking at the repeal of the Union through the medium of Reform. but he had looked at the repeal of the Union as the means of (draining good government; and if he obtained that by other means, was he not bound to support those means ? He had accordingly supported the measure of Reform without looking at its origin, though, if he had consulted his feelings, if be had lo ked at what had passed with re gard to himself, he should have taken a different course, and not have supported the principle of the Bill. If tinder such a view he hail chosen to object to the details, and particularly if be had distorted, then he might have pecked a hole in the measure as well as another. If, in stead of defending the Reform Bill on those great prin ciples which it inculcated and supported, he had taken up the question connected with it on paltry, pettifogging grounds, and dealt with them according to the chic awry of the Courts—(Hear, hear)—if he had declared himself a foe to all improvement ; if he had stood forth the enemy of all amelioration of the condition of his fellow-creatures ; if he bad said to all changes which bore the semblance of bringing about a better condition of things to his fellow creatures, and said to them, " thus far shalt thou go, and nu farther"—(Hear, hear)—then, indeed, he would have been cheered by time Hon. and Learned Member and his associates ; and then, t 0,,, he might have hoped to miti gate their hostihty, and perhaps to secure their favour,— (Ilear.)-11e stood there, however, an independent Mein. her of that House—independent either of the Government or of the party opposed to them. the had entered into no co mpromise ; he had received no promises of lenity ; and h e d en i e d that he was influenced in his support of the Bin by any other motives than his conviction of its fitness for the ends it proposed. Sir C. WE FIIERELL begged to tell the Hon. Mem ber for Waterford, that the papers on which he founded his opinions of . that Hon. M em b er ' s conduct were not called for by him (Sir C. Wetherell.) The Hon Member f„ r Waterford (311.. O'Connell) had himself called for these papers, and read and commented on them to the House. When thus produced, surely it was competent to any other Member to form an opinion on them different from that of the Hen. Member lOr Waterford.—(Hear.) It was the Hon. Member for Waterford, therefore, who had introduced the means of f orm i ng an opinion on those diplomatic approximations—(Cheers and laughter)—to which he alluded. 'I he Member for W ater f or d h a d d one him the favour to institut e some comparisons between the c ourses they had separably adopted. Comparisons were o dious things—(Hear)—particularly personal comparisons, t he (Sir C. Wetherell) b egged to retire from the odium and f a ny comparison of that kind with the Hon. Member for Vr' a terford.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.)—He repelted, that he had not charged the diplomatic approxima.ions t h e Hon. Member, until he himself produced the evidence of them. H., begged now, however, to retire from the speculations connected with them. He retired, too, from any further controversy with respect to the spo li at i ons o f which he hail been said to comp l a i n, an d to w hi c h t h e Hon. Member had adverted; but if he was disposed to continue them, he thought he could bring to the re col cction of the House a man who haul dealt in spoliation , , and mad e th em b eneficial to himself, by handing a begging box round among his friends.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.")--Wbet would be said if they were - told-that the Hon. Member for Waterford had himself encouraged spoliation, by raising contributions from his countrymen—(Hear)—by taking twopence from the poor man—(flear)—and a penny from the ragged man— , (Hear, and a laugh) —and a halfpenny from the starving man.—(Cries of hear, and order. )—He was not disposed I to violate the order of the House, but he could not help • saying that observations respecting spoliation came with a very bid grace from those who had in this manner raised contributions from the people.—(Hear.) Mr. O'CONNELL rose amid cries of order and ques tion. He said he wished to make one observation, not on the subject of spoliation, but with respect to the personal charge against himself. He neither was now, nor at any time ever bad been, a party to the applications for con tributions which the Hon. Member referred to.—(Cries of "Oh, oh," and question.)—He repeated, he had not !hen a party to them ; and he would add, that he bad sacri ficed larger sums to his country than the Hon. and Learned Member had ever gained by his profession.— (Oh, oh ! question. )—lie had a right to speak, and he would speak, in spite of this interruption.—(Great con fusien and cries of order.) The SPEAKER said it was extremely desirable that the Hon. Member and others should know to what extent they were to be allowed to continue discussions of this de scription. When the character and conduct of the Hon. Member was alluded to in a pointed manner, by other Hon. Members, he was sure that the House would never look with too much strictness of order on the course of proceedings which might be adopted ; but it was, a: the same time, right it should be known that observations which would go to the extent of increasing the &bate or throwing out new matter for discussion, could not be al!owed. Mr. O'CONNELL was obliged for this information, and hoped, in the few words he had to say, that the Speaker, if he was out of order, would comet him. He repeated, that he h rd spent large sums in the service of his country, and akimbo - led for it a profession wh.ch eve' y one connected with the bar knew to be worth 7,0001. a year. For twenty-five years he had laid out a sum of 2,0001. 4 year —out b ,of his own picket —to promote the necessary agita ti,n in Ireland—(A loud laugh)—in support of the rause of Catholic emancipation, arid if his countrymen—his poor but generous countrymen--were anxious to make him a remuneration for his losses and his sacrifices, he thought that every reflecting mind would feel that the art placed them high among the nations which boast of civilization. Sir R. PEEL did not rise to prolong the discussion, but, on the contrary, to suggest to the House, whether it would not be advisable to put an end to it, so that they might proceed to the discussion of the impirtant question fixed for that evening, with as slight a degree of excite ment as was consistent with the nature of the question. Mr. NORTH then attempted to say a few words in reply to the Member for Waterford, but the House per sisted in demanding the question, and the Hon. Member gave way. ADJOURNED DEBATE ON REFORM. On the motion of Lord JOHN RUSSELL, the order of the day for the adjourned debate on the Reform Bill was then read, and the question of the second reading, and the amendment being put, Lord MAHON rose to express, in a few words, his feelings with respect to that measure which his Majesty's Government now proposed. He denied that the House of Commons, so openly charged by that Government with cot reption, were fairly open to the charge ; and if they were so, and if the boroughs which they stigmatised as unfit to retain the elective franchise, thin he called on them, before they legislated, to prove that their accusa• tions were well founded at the liar of that House. A Noble Lord opposite (Lord Palmerston) had pretended so discover the opinions of Mr. Canning to be favourabl e t o Reform, from an expr ess io n w hi c h h e found in a speech of his delivered on the silk trade ; but he (Lord Mahon) thought it would be as reasonable to look for the opinions of Mr. Canning with respect to Reform in the debate on the silk trade, as it would be for any Member of that House to find the opinions of the present Government on the silk trade, in a speech on the question of Reform.— (Hear, hear.)—He was convinced, notwithstanding all that hail been said of the corruption and meanness of the House of Commons, that the Reform Bill, if carried, might increase the quantity of its talent, but he was sure it would diminish its stock of honesty.—( Bear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Callington, in an able speech which every one recollected, had pointed out the effect which the Bill would be likely to have on the electors. He would take leave to point out the effects be thought it was likely to have on the elected. The Hon. Member for Callington alluded to the useful [ower which Gatton and Sarum exercised in counterpoising the effect of the snore popular representation, and pointed out, very happily, the blending of the several interests in forming a perfect whole. Hon. Members, it was well known, got into that House in a great variety of ways—some for counties, some for cities, and some for close boroughs. The Hon. Baronet who moved the amendment last night, the Member for the county of Cornwall. held, in that capacity, a high place in the House. He (Lord Mahon) was Member for a inrobigh, with a comparatively small number of voters. He could not pretend at any time to enter into competi tion with the Hon. Member for Cornwall, but it was the snore necessary for him, as the representative of a borough, to snake uncesving exertions t o retain his position in the eyes of the people, and to counteract by his industry the disadvantages of his station. This difference in the na ture of the representation formed, therefore, as it were, a continual stimulant to the honourable exertion in that House, in the same manner as the differences ,of rank were said to operate in the House of Peers—hut with this great difference, that in one case the favours derived from honourable exertion were confer•, d by the King, on the other they were the gift of the people. These differences, of the representative system afforded, moreover, a usefu equipoise in the nyinagetnent of separate interest:J. It was said, however, that the present state of the repre sentation was a monstrous anomaly in the Constitution, which could nut be suffered longer to disgrace it. Why, were there no anomalies in the Constitution except the close boroughs ? It was a part of the Constitution that the Kiag, whatever might be the extent of his insanity, could never be pronounced a lunatic; that, whatever were his years, he could never be a minor : and that though he might, like James, endeavour to destroy the Constitution, and usurp the powers of the other branches of the Legis lature, still he could do no wrong.—(llear.)—But speak ing of anomalies, what could be snore absurd than here- ditary Legislators ? While other men, probably possessed - - • • - of the most transcendent talents, and who had laboured through hal a life to make themselves acquainted with the laws of their country, were debarred from exhibiting their knowledge for the benefit of their fellow creatures, he, from being born the son of a Peer, was destined to attain the distinction of a Legislator, without labour or exer tion.—(Hear.)—Then what could he more monstrous than the law of primog - eniture, which gives to the eldest son, perhaps one of the most worthless brutes on earth, all the lands and properties of his parents, to the exclusion of his more deserving but younger relatives.—(Hear.)— Those were all monstrous anomalies, as monstrous as any said to he found in the representative system ; but yet they were leading principles of the Consti ution. Refer ring to the arguments adduced in favour of the present sys tem, in consequence of the facilities it afforded for the ad mission of men of talent to that House, he believed he had 30 or 40 arguments of that kind at once within his glance. It had, however, been urged against them, and against all who sat in that House for close boroughs, that they were precluded om voting on the question of Reform, and that when it was agitaied they should get tip and walk out of that House.—(Hear.)—P, however, all the Hon. Members placed in that situation 11,a1 complied with such a der-n;nd.l they could not at that moment have been discussing the terms of a Bill introduced by the able expose', of the Noble Lord the Member for Tavi,tock.—(H ear , word with respect to intimidation and he had done. It was a favourite expression of the supporters of the present system, although much ridiculed by their opponents, that bons riust srt k ae e yisi : p l itgei ‘ ci v hat e tt l tb l ot , eh ae i l e i : a ,qtl t ie e uo v et, tiso.(rt:iuotitnjnioli(gooi Reform, ft u e l,:p.r i o t ilni s .iks: d e edt‘fl,ti,wech,teaslt.lt.. whatever objet- t; Governmentalcid...e with o conversed with a great number of persons on the subject, and he really must say that he believed there was no greater number of persons inclined to Reform at that mo ment than there had been twelve months before ; but, although he was satisfied that there were not many more persons convinced by the arguments of the Government and their supporters, he was sure that a great many had been terrified into advocating its necessity.—(Hear.)— He believed that if the arguments brought ti,rward by the • supporters of the Bill were divested of the appeals to the determination of the people to have Reform, of the asser tions that they would and rritot have it, and that if it was refused they were prepared to cut the throats of their enemies to obtain it; if these arguments were taken away, he believed that not fifty Members of that House would hovsbefoeuvteird,towvho it v vote for ittade .—(llear, hear.)—He would a s k, the people clamorous for Re form ? The King's Ministers. Who it was had by their agitation and their complaints, and their promises, and their representations, brought the House to that melan choly condition, that it could neither pause with safety nor proceed without ruin?—(Hear, hear.)—lf his Ma jesty's Ministers had used but half the power and industry to tranquillize, that they have exerted to bewilder and to raislead, they would not at that moment have bed placed in such a painful and dangerous situation.- - I SirJOHN SHELLEY was the Membea r for a borough' his constitu en t s w ere f rom eight hundred to one t housand and he w as b oua d to state, at the outset, that the majo rs' were favour a bl e t o R e f orm . Thi s i t was his duty to et ; and he should a dd, t h at at a meet i ng hell lately on that 9. sect, he waiinearly the only person who raised a voice ago: the Bill. Having honestly and fairly . admitted th is, he 1.1 at liberty to st a t e it as his own opinion that th e ra"s t u teil was unjust, fallacious, and revolutionary. Ile reg they much that the Ri g ht Hon. Baronet (Sir Robert Peel) refused the m em b ers to t h e l arg sa e towns, for to that 1 owed much of w h a t h a d taken place. It had heen b o , that th e Bill was a b oon to t h e landed i nteres t. If at all, it was a boon to the manufacturing interest. declare • Mr. CAVENDISH niumt most conscientiously . e a that the w h o l e o f t h e measure which had b een intro ut by his Majesty's Government had his unqualified suPP°trhe —(Hear, hear ) As to the petition, h o wever, " 3 re . Univer s ity of Cambridge, which had that night been t'ers sented, althou g h th ere were undoubtedly many AleT nete of the Senate who were adverse to the Bill, he also 'here from communications which he had received, that t boje were many who were so far from being hostile to the sv , the measure, that they did not object to the disfranchising cu'aii, boroughs, although they thought that the propose,' q er ,„ fication of voters was too low. No one was n' ece :tr' Bible tha n hi mse lf, t h at i n many repeets this on'a ha t y was fortunat e beyond the ordinary lot of nations; j he was q u i te at a l oss to see how that cou ld defen d tite existin g b oroug h system. That there w ere g or evils arising from that system no one co uld dou bt ! to that it was the d uty of the Legisl a t ure to endeav" u t . remedy theno—(Heer, hear, hear.) There way one con'e sideration o f p aramount i mportance. Without the t°e,a tidence of th e c o untry i t was certa i n t h at no GovecrigLat could go on. There could be no stability unless the ic to e r a t majority of the peopl e suppor t e d t h e G overnme nt• merly-, no one withi n or w i t h out t h ose we ll s dared to r „ the that that Hou s e w as no t th e genu i ne representative of people. But was that the case at present? So d on g a t the House of Commons was co n sti tu t e d as it was at ")-. 0 11 ' moment, so long would the dissatisfaction of the P with it continue to increase. That dissatiefaction be smothered for a moment, but whenever any e irc e , u ,•th stance occurred to cu ll i t f ort h , i t would burst ont" t redoubled vielence.—(ear.) As for those who sai" teis measure was only a ; stepping-stone for f ur th e r enn c ," h ' e son, he could not see any we i ght i n their argument!' the tendency of which was, in fact, to throw obstacles rn la, wiy of all improvement. He was surprised at the c ll. mour of revolution which had been raised against the Pl a e It was his decided conviction, that if revolution was tc -0 aperehended in this country, it was not fiem this B t : but from the continuance of a system which woo cots) pletely at variance with the general interests.--( ll°r he Nor could he indulge the melancholy foreboding that cis, Bill was calculated to promote the downfall of the ak, tocracy. On the contrary, he believed, that the Ac is a t e , • cracy would be in no way endangered by it. It wad trek that it woula deprive the Aristocracy of a portion o fta 4 immediate power; hut it would induce them to rely' n ae on their boroughs, but on that which always ought t " their legitimate influence.—(Hear.) Mr. ORMSBY GORE sa id t h at an lion. Gentl e l who had last n i g h t a dd resse d .t h e House in f avour of Bill, in a strain 01 beautiful eloquence, had a ppeaied galaxy of talent in the tomb, in confirmation of his oP-s, nions. In reply, he (Mr. Gore) would call from the deep one of th e g rea t est sp i r i ts o f past t i mes—one of, t :a greatest ind most constitu t i ona l wr i ters t h at h a d ever hoe —Sir William Blackstone—the reforming Sir Blackstone—in supp or t o f hi s o bj ect i ons to t h e Bill. S (i e t. - that great authority could not speak for himtelfn t , f laugh)—he (Mr. Gor e ) would quote his words. 1.313 c stone, in speaking of the qualifications of electors °r , Knights of the Shir e , said, that by the ancient stat ut h e e " they must have est a t es i n l an d s or tenements w i t hin t id county represented ; t h at t h ese estates must b e freehc%l that is an term of lif e a t l east ; b ecause b ene fi c i a l lea s `i • for long terms of years were not in use at the making these statutes, and c o pyh o ld ers were t h en li ttle b et ter villeins, absolutely dependent upon their lords." S r f were the observatio n s o f Si r William Blackstone, and the were applicable t o th at part of the m e as ure under O P- 1 , 1 e deration which i n t ro d uce d copy h o ld ers as electors fartot representatives o f coun ti es , Wh at wou ld Sir Wi!,9 Blackstone say, if h e cou ld r i se f rom hi s grave, a"" , that it was propo se d to re d uce t h e num b er of Metnben:e the House of Commons by sixty-three ? Wh a t t em.'. le say, if he saw th a t a ll t h e c h arters i n t h e l an d , t h a t all / et corporations whose rights were derived from their 11 ;, cestors, were to be completely destroyed ? The Him. Gen' Herten here read the preamble of the Act of Retry V' et , which forty shillings was fixed as the lowest freehold V, lification for a voter, to show that the object was to "I; tinguish between those who were competent to g od 's of the competence of a candidate, and those who tvefe tj. „ so. The partiality of tee proposed measure had been,: well exposed last ni g ht b y t h e H on. an d L eatne d Meow; for Weymouth, and by the Hon. Member for C ur Castle, that h e w ou ld mere l y ma k e one or two observ ip. tions upon it. Th e y h a d b een to ld t h at t h e r i g ht of P t turning representatives was to be regulate-I by the ana". u r ; of the population. If so, how was it that a most portant district of th e country , conta i n i ng 3 10 , 000 m ole bitants, was to send to Path anent only exactly the 'a pod number of repr e sent a ti ves as a county containing t 101,000 inhabitants ? Th e county of Wilts was to ' 4e ., twenty-five Members to Parliament, while the whole Pc n- i e emality of Wales was to send the same number. a s county of Glamorgan, containing 30,135 inhabitants,;. ,;(1 to send o ne Member, while the county of Northumb eil3 o , containing 61,662 i n h a bi tants, was to send four Herat bees. Was th a t i mpart i a li ty ? —(Hear, hear. ) .- -Wa , apportioning the representatives to the poulation ? ea s there must be a new eastern—if the House of Conin% must be rennidelled—thr Heaven's sake let strict in t Pi t r e tiality b e o b serve d . H e looked upon the present a' t ye worst possibl e ti me at w hi ch such a prop o. osition coul d h3 a been m a d e; a time when th e s pi r it of i n novation r y stalking through Europe, laying its iron grasp upon s ty state. It he were again to call spirits from the v't oj j deep, h e tron a] summon th e grea t B ur k e , w h o had v" r a e r Governments of th e ru i n w hi c h too f requently l ur ked L"' of pretended Reform ; he would refer to the opiii i° f id Bacon Omnis srebita inuitutatio eat periculosa i_ i t ft a a tl p to ic, u rae g ph h ,ean i i t sni b oi e ,n(. f ; o E r H t ( h i e it I L m a e r t , t s i h r ied , yet ara. it is not without a l e ' we believe ) its few words; favour of the Bill. t aut , Mr. WARD sa id, that knowing that a large pr°P . bica of his c o ns tit uents were o f a d i fferent opinion from , 00.5 with respect to th e present measure, h e shou ld be 3 aid n m o o t s s t ta u t rfair em that ly fact. tota v It tl was Majesty's i s afact,h ' o Government however, which if ', l e er ed it the mor e i ncum b ent upon hi m not to abanil a bandon P i o °' 0 1 . tion Of his c onst i tuents w h o agree d w i th hi m i n op'';„ a t That eery night circurnstancee had prevented hiz a ho oP, presenting a p e titi on , s i gne d b y s i x h un d re d me" the bankers, and others, of time City of London, against fir Bill which b a d b een i ntro d uce d b y t h e Noble 3-leu'i",-prr Tavistock ; and h e th ere f ore felt compelled to tale tm ` ite tie sent opportunity o f express i ng t h e sent i ments o f tu c 'Ol l tioners. They were indep ndent lads ideals—tacit rl ge qu.litied to judge upon the tobj, ct, having much a t het her on its decision. It i n t ere tt e d them deeply to know vv 1 01 it was probable that the pecuniary obligations of the c l t aelC would be implic a t e d, or th e tenure by which they hel'flool property con s id ere d sacre d b y a new P ar li amen t lot a ' % Olt from any experience, but the elements connect'. ti e/ which were down to that very moment un aseeitit in ' ee ett (Hear.) It h a d b een his good fertune to hear th e 1 0 /11 0, of the gall an t Ad m i ra l, the Member for Nottinglo n '.' s aoti in such a.ffectieg terms, had stated that. be felt it In ot A C' to vote in a manner which he was aware was o h i e e j cordant with the opinions of his constituents. tt e r t let; the. House tvould eive him (Mr. Ward) equal cre :dol not being indifferent to the feelings and w]shes e ' ee tet'f' his constituents or the people at large. Under vga-,, ea, intimidation, he would do his duty. He w `', l ,,, i ririg, ercise his own judgment for the purpose of endea — , to ascertain if there were any ground for sriPP"'inbay the the people would enjoy a larger share of real lib e rty' be d, proposed measur e , t h an up to time present period place? thank God ! ex i s t e d i n t hi s country. In the fi ot t w hich he would inquire wh conetitutcd the i m provein eu t , the Bill was to effect in the character of that H 4lo ; og hvt his earli er (Lye lie was acquaint e d with three b o a lote - sending six Members to that House. They w ere re pre' boroughs too. And who w ere th e persons wh o fierce" seated tho ss b oroug h s ? M r. Fox, Mr. Pi t t, . 0 1* 5 0 , 1 : val, Mr. C ann i ng , t h e present Noble Secretaryet t' — for Forei gn Aff a i rs, an d the No b le D u k e lat el y 00 0 bead of his Majesty's Government. Could hettet' a P j h art' have bee n sent to P arl i ament ? When first he " h e had "' c ob' self the honour of a seat in the House, eyes on both sides to see whom be might Planing.', the Bence. On the Ministerial side lie saw Mr: Ca n ,00lv e Right Hon. Baronet, late Secrete!) , of State for I", r close Members ro Li t Department, and Mr. Hutkisson,—all Men w ore° I boroughs. On the Opposition tide lie saw the , L r e4re er .. Lord (2h .ncellor, Mr. Tierney, and the Hove an a tlo , Member for Knaresborough,—all Members for ht,pe to roughs. He must be a sanguine man who woU' e.,r qU op obtain fit the service of the public indiviiluals.,beatr".) lifted than those he had mentioned.—(Hea r, t r , 00 ,0:1 1) 0 1 the other hand—and he begged to assure the Ity e Baronet, time Member for Westrnineea, that b, called :.11ave , nalne nt w 1 14.. :t a one Id drt ' 4t , h Uaio )4 lie Cu ' ,i t ;itadi nt hA' 4,1 I3tu re,lttlau Pre: t!,