The Sun. — London, England, 1834-04-19 00:00:00

GRENA,. WESTER RAILWAY. On Wedsiescl% the committee 'i\et, and Mr..; Har iison (who with Mr. Follett, l% i. ood, and ethers appearq for the railway company) proceeded to address the committee. He said ,the duty had devolved on him of raising the question, whether the establishment of a railroad between the ports of Bristol and London would not be productive of the most important advantages, not only to those two places, but to all the intermediate dis tricts. Without going into detail at present, he would state that the existing road, or means of conveyance was wholly inadequate to the traffic, and was moreover in the worst possible condition. Honourable members were aware that the intercourse between London and Bristol far the conveyance of heavy goods might be regarded in three di visions. The first was from London to Reading by the Thames ; the very worst navigation that could be found in the kingdom. The distance was 75 miles, and it was needless for him to say that the intercourse was frequently interrupted, sometimes by floods, sometimes by frost; and sometimes by other causes. The transit under the most favourable circumstances occupied three clays, and some times even three weeks, whilst the uncertainty attending it was so great as to defy the calculation of the most experi enced trader. The next division was from Reading to Bath, by the Kennet and Avon canal, which was effective as far as canal carriage was concerned ; but could not, of course, be put in competition with the railroad ; this was also about 75 miles. • Mr. Joy, for the opposition, here took an objection in ..limine, in consequence of the directors having stated their '-intention to commence the railway at the Hoop and Toy, :Broughton, instead of Millbank, in order to do away with The opposition of the Marquis of Westminster, Earl ';',Cadogan, and others, that such an alteration was fatal to i b il this ill. a long discussion arose, and the committee room lk ultimately cleared for a division, when the objection overruled. i Ir. Harrison then resumed pis argument. The last ivision was from Bath to Bristol, by the river Avon, which was subjcet to all the inconveniences of river navi gation to which he had already alluded. The rate of carriage on the river Thames from London -' R.,A;yr. was 15s. per ton, whilst on the railway it wou.- _.. 55., being one third. By the railway goods and passengers would be conveyed to Reading in two hours—the quickest coaches for the conveyance of passengers only accomplish ing the distance in four hours, whilst by the Thames it was three days. He then called on the committee to consider of the advantages which would accrue to Bristol, and through it, generally, to the southern district. Bristol was the third port in the kingdom, as appeared by the Custom house returns, London being the first, and Liverpool the second. The latter port had long had the advantage of a complete canal communication with London, which up, even to the present time, Bristol had not. Yet the Legis lature thought it right to sanction, in addition, the forma tion of a railway communication between that port and the metropolis. Why then should not a similar commu nication be made between Bristol and London, the dis tance between these being much less, namely 110 miles. Bristol already possessed an immense trade, and by the addition of the railway, there was every prospect of a great increase. Six or seven large steam boats regularly left. Bristol for Dublin, Cork, and Waterford every week. This last was, as they all knew, the .first port in Ireland. The voyage to Dublin was 244 miles, and to Cork 250, and occupied on the average 28 hours. To Waterford it was 198 miles, the average time being 24 hours, though it was frequently under 20. Thus by means of the railway a communication would be opened from- Ireland with London in from thirty to forty hours, and fresh provisions, such as fresh butter, eggs, &c., now procured from Holland, would be obtained at a much cheaper rate from our own countrymen. Not only this, but agricultural produce of all kinds would be transported from the sister isle. Bristol also was in direct communication with the iron and coal district of Wales, whose fuel was particularly cheap. The committee would be surprised when they heard that the miners of Cornwall actually sent their ore to South Wales to be smelted, because it could be done there at a cheaper rate than at home. Bristol was particularly qualified to become the grand depot trade of the western trade, as it was near the metropolis, and afforded to shippinc , equal 1 ratection against contrary winds with Live!poor. The lea] n - d gentleman then adverted to the • engin of the undertaking as springing from the mature delibera tions of a committee five different merchant asso ciations at Bristol, and proceeded to consider the facilities of the line chosen. It was, he said, ultimately the in tention of the directors to complete the whole line. At present their subscriptions were not sufficiently advanced, nor even if they were would they do more than make the commencement now projected, and they pledged themselves to show that in point of public advantage there was quite sufficient in the plan as it at present stood, without refe rence to future operations, to warrant the committee in adopting it. The estimated income, calculated on certain ties not probabilities, was, for the line from London to Reading, 97,0001. per annum ; and from Bath to Bristol, 49,0001. per annum, which would afford a handsome return on the outlay. The learned gentleman then proceeded to support the line chosen as by far the best that could be adopted. It ran through the most populous and trading district, it communicated with the greatest number of towns, and afforded the greatest facilities of soil and levels. The other line by way of Windsor was liable to constant floods ; and that by Basingstoke (selected by the South ampton Railway Company), would be much more expen sive, and not near so remunerative. Where there were great ascents to surmount, the speed of the engine was either diminished or the ascent must be reduced at a great expense. At one point on the Liverpool railway the incli nation was 1 in 98, and the engine would sometimes come to a stand still. Hence fresh engines were usually kept in readiness at this point, but in the road from London to Reading, the greatest ascent, which was only about one fur long, was 1 in 392, whilst the rest of the way the inclina tion was lin 598 only. But the Basingstoke line (that of the Southampton) had for the first four miles an inclination of I in 323 ; for the next six miles 1 in 285 ; for the next six, 1 in 243 ; and then onwards from 1 in 240 to 1 in 244 —thus making a difference in point of speed and expense between the two lines of nearly one half. In the counties through which the proposedline of the Great Western Rail way ran, there were 115,263 families engaged in agriculture ; 110,207 in trade, and 95,000 in other occupations, making about 1,500,000 persons, whilst it was in approximation with a district containing a population of 1,500,000 more. But the Southampton railway ran through a much more limited district, containing only 34,000 agricultural fami lies, 34,000 trading families, and 20,000 families in other occupations. He thought, therefore, he had established, to the satisfaction of the committee, that the company had selected the best possible time for their work. Before he concluded he would mention one fact. By the Manchester and Liverpool railway 27 stage coaches were superseded, and the coach masters said they would be ruined. What was the result? More horses were employed now in short stage coaches to and from the railway than were employed before the railway was constructed. The learned counsel concluded by intimating his intention of calling evidence to substantiate his statements. - The committee then adjourned. THURSDAY. ~,. The following witnesses were examined this day in sup port of the bill. Mr. Christopher Claxton, harbour-master, deposed to the facilities of Bristol as the great -port for the western trade, and pointed out the advantages to ships coming from the West Indies in going to Bristol instead of London. Under the most contrary winds, vessels could get to sea from Bristol, and vice versa, in thirty-six hours ; whilst in the English Channel they were frequently blown about for two and three months. The least average difference in point of time was a fortnight. In cross-examination, witness denied that any of the trade of Bristol had gone to Gloucester ; that city had none of the qualities of Bris tol, and the voyage to it would occupy 12 hours more. Lieutenant Chapman, of the Royal Navy, stated that the principi ports of Ireland were within from 23 to 28 hours' sail of Bristol. Flour, eggs, pigs, cattle, butter, leather, and iron, were the principal articles imported from Ire land, to which there might be added with great advan tage, if there were a rapid communication between Ire land, Bristol, and London, fish, poultry, fresh butter, &c. Fresh butter was now 9d, per lb. in Cork, and 15d. in London. Irish pigs were now driven from Bristol to London. There were on an average 8 deaths in 100, and each pig lost 10 lbs. in weight, which would be avoided in a railway. In cross-examination, witness stated that ;the navigation to Gloucester by a steam-boat would be very dangerous. 3lr, William Hire, an extensive sugar refiner, deposed to the great losses and delays experienced by the Bristol mer Ihants on account of the bad navigation from Bristol t o London. Sugar was usually sent from London by canal, and the average time for transit was thirteen days, but it w as no uncommonly two months. The cost was 28s. and ;As. per ton, and had sometimes been 355. The railway proposed to care ) ' at ss. per ton. In one case, instead of raining 300/. or 415 hogsheads, he lost by delay 3001. :She delay took place at the Thames, between Reading and Lonzion, in consequence of the want of water. The Avon, I)etweert Bath and Bristol, had its navigation frequently in terrupted by floods. A vast quantity of similar evidence was given by dif ferent witnesses. Mr. Mark Inkwell, Mr. Thomas Stone, Mr. Visger, Mr. Miller, and others, deposed to the nature of the ex port and import trade carried on at Bristol. By their evi dence it appeared that a ship could work up the Bristol channel to Bristol cheaper than up the Thames to London, including port dues--that the port dues at Bristol were lowered in 1827—that the great difficulty Bristol had to contend with was the want of a sufficient market for im ported goods, which a speedy and cheap communication with London would remove ; and the want of light goods to mix with heavy goods for a return freight, so as to in duce ships to come to their port. This a railway commu nication with London, where they had a superabundance of light goods, would remove, by enabling them to make up an asserted cargo. To show the advantage of this, it was mentioned that Bristol, shipping only heavy goods, charged 11. per ton on iron exported to America, whereas at Liver pco', where they could assort their cargoes, they only charged 15s.—The committee then adjourned. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HO U , ARril 18. 7ORD s On the motion ELLENBORDUGH, the bll,l for facilitating the enclos of commons was read a second time. The Duke of GLOUCE ER gave notice, that on Monday he would present a petition signed by 268 menibers of the Senate of Cambridge now there as sembled, praying their lordships not to agree to the changes in the constitution of the university, which were prayed for in a petition, signed by sixty three members, presented on the 21st of March. Petitions for the better observance of the Lord's Day were presented by the Bishops of London and Lincoln, and by the Marquises of Cholmondely and Lansdowne. The Duke of WELLINGTON presented a petition from the presbytery of Skye against any alteration in the system of church patronage in Scotland. Viscount MELBOURNE presented a petition from a parish in Glasgow, praying for a revision of the church patronage system. Lord DACRE and Lord SUFFIELD presented peti tions from a number of dissenting congregations, com plain; ng of the grievances under which they laboured, and praying for relief. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a peti tion, very numerously signed, from the city of Bristol, to the same effect. They did not, however, pray for anything the granting of which would at all en danger the established church. He therefore supported their prayer. The Earl of CARLISLE presented a petition from the hand-loom weavers of Wigton, praying for relief. MUSICAL FESTIVAL, WESTMINSTER ABBEY. The Duke of NEWCASTLE, not seeing the right rev. Bishop of London in his place, begged to put a question to the noble earl, at the head of his Majesty's govern ment, with respect to a subject in which he felt deep in terest,—that subject was the approaching Musical Festival in Westminster Abbey. He (the noble duke) had strong objections to a place of so sacred a character being ap propriated to such a purpose. He considered the selection injudicious and improper, and he wished to know whether any alteration had been made with re sp to the place where it was to be held. As he had b stated, he considered a church a most improper place for such an exhibition. There could be no objection to the coronation being solemnised in Westminster Abbey, but he never could consent to a musical festival being held there. Earl GREY, although he considered the question one of a peculiar nature, and one that he doubted whether he was called upon to answer, begged to say that the intended festival was of a similar nature to those that had been formerly held in Westminster Abbey. A further answer he could not give to the noble duke. The Earl of MALMESBURY said that no one felt more strongly than he did for the sacred cha racter of the church, but, on the present occasion, he thought the noble duke had taken an erroneous view of the case. The proceedings he depre cated taking place in churches were :parish meetings (Hear, hear, hear), and if such courses were put an end to he had no hesitation in saying much good might be effected. (Hear, hear.) But when he had such authorities as George the Third and Bishop Porteus for a Musical Festival at Westminster Abbey, he could not be brought to believe there could be any possible objec tion to it. If the noble duke had no objection to the solemnization of a coronation in so grand an edifice, he could not see how any objection could be raised against the performance of sacred music. IRISH JUDGMENTS BILL. Lord WYNFORD moved the second reading of this bill. The Marquis of WESTMEATH rose to oppose it. He thought that the measure ought to be submitted to a committee, as there were many parts of it highly objectionable. He considered it would be productive of mischief, inasmuch as it did not provide for the possibility of persons sued under it obtaining testi mony either in this country or Ireland. If it passed into a law, a person might follow another from this coun try, and take process out against him, from which he would not be able to defend himself. The noble marquis then alluded to a speech made some time since by Lord Wyn ford, and concluded by stating his determination to oppose the bill. Lord WYNFORD said that the noble marquis had al luded to a speech of his that had been published, but he oould only say that he never saw a speech of his in print that went within eleven points of what he had actually said ; and he spoke within the hearing of those who took down what he said there. With respect to any amendment that the noble marquis might wish to introduce, he should be happy to consent to any amendment, but he thought that very few of the points which the noble marquis had stated, bore at all upon the present bill. The house then resolved itself into a committee upon the bill. The Marquis of WESTMEATH proposed a clause, to the effect that all judgments, upon which no pro ceedings had been taken for the last twenty years, should not take effect. After a few observations from Lord WYNFORD, op posing the introduction of the clause, the gallery was cleared for a division, but none took place. The house went into a committee upon the bill. One amendment was proposed by Lord WYNFORD, and adopted. Another was proposed by the Alarquis of WEST MEATH, and rejected. The Marquis of STAFFORD presented a petition from the dissenters of Stoke-upon-Trent, complaining of the disabilities under which they laboured. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented the report of the select committee on parliamentary offices ; and gave notice, that on Tuesday next he should propose certain re solutions connected with it. The Marquis of WESTMEATH presented a petition on the subject of the burning of lands in Ireland.—Referred to the select committee. SMUGGLING ACTS' AMENDMENT BILL. Lord AUCKLAND moved the second reading of this Bill. The Earl of MALMESBURY said, that in his opinion there could be nothing worse than sending offenders of this description to associate with our sailors and soldiers, and therefore he hailed this bill with much satisfaction ; but he certainly did not like the idea of throwing any additional burden upon the maritime counties. Those counties, he supposed, would be charged with the support of these offen ders. (No, no, from the Ministerial benches.) He found, then, he was wrong ; but he had still another ob jection to urge, or rather, he had a suggestion to make. It was, that persons guilty of the offence of smuggling should be separated from other criminals. Lord AUCKLAND said the practice had hitherto been, for the customs to pay 44d. per day for the maintenance of each offender against the customs' laws ; how far that was sufficient he could not tell. The Government was, how ever, willing that the customs should pay whatever more was necessary. Lord STRANGFORD objected to the principle of the bill, because it gave to ministers the power of making a difference in the punishment of the rich and poor offender. The rich offender, who was frequently the more guilty of the two, might get off with a pecuniary fine, which the poor criminal—he who by want was goaded on to break the laws—would for a second offence be subjected to twelve months' imprisonment with hard labour. While on this subject, he must express his astonishment at the continued forbearance of his Majesty's government toward the French government, which so openly permitted its subjects to carry on an extensive smuggling trade in eight of their ports from Boulogne to Havre, to the great detriment of the fair trader in this country. In those eight privileged ports the trade was mainly in the hands of the smugglers, and to the inherent protection which the French executive extended to them, his Majesty's ministers never ventured even so far as a remonstrance. This, however, was hardly to be won dered at, when it was evident they were determined to maintain their union with our dear and intimate friend and ally at any expense, even that of our honour and interest. From the reign of Charles the Second, down to this, our own pre-eminently glorious period, England had never derived either honour or advantage by any connection with France. Lord AUCKLAND said the only effectual way of di minishing the amount of smuggling was by reducing the custom duties as low as possible, so that it should not be worth a man's while to incur the risk of detection. Lord WYNFORD and the Duke of WELLINGTON said a few words which were not heard in the gallery. Earl GREY said he looked with great satisfaction to the intimate and confidential union which existed at that moment between England and France, and on its conti nuance, he did not hesitate to say, the peace of Europe depended, and he, from his heart, hoped that it would re main uninterrupted; but to sacrifice the honour and interests of his country, even to so desirable an object as that which he had stated, he was, he begged leave to say, quite as in capable of doing as the noble baron himself. , Why did not the noble baron come manfully forward, and produce his charge—why did he not produce his facts ? Let the noble baron do this any time he liked, and he would meet him and his charge, and answer and, as he thought, refute it. The noble baron had spoken as if this smuggling trade had only commenced since he (Earl Grey) took office. Lord STRANGFORD said something across the table. Earl GREY—I say no. Again the noble baron says, yes ; and again I say, no. Well, so it stands, his yes and my no. But he (Earl Grey) asked, was it peculiar to the French ? was it not a natural desire with them, as with every other people under the sun, to produce as much as they could, and to export as much as they could ? If the noble baron would state anything specific, he would at once grapple with the charge ; but he would say no more on the subject now—seeing how easy it was to make general sweeping assertions, how difficult pro perly to repel them—than that his Majesty's Government had never on this or on any other subject—no matter what —shown any backwardness to express their opinions to the French government in a becoming and suitable manner, and that whenever it had been necessary to remonstrate on this particular subject they had immediately done so, and at once been attended to. He repeated that he was sin cerely anxious for the continuance of this union, which the noble baron so much decried ; because, in his conscience, he believed it fraught with good to this and to every other ;ti movecoufttrjr-gubecause; all, he thought it an honourable guarantee of peace ; but that union should not be main tamedl4k fo moment longer by him if it was to be at the expenet es r of the interests or the honour of his country. LorßTs NGFORD explained. The bill was then read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday.—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, April 18. Mr. Bedwell, from the Court of Chancery, produced a return of the fees taken by the reg►strars of that court. OFFICERS OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. GUEST brought in a bill to regulate the salaries of the officers of the House of Commons, and to abolish certain sinecure offices, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday next, and to be printed. FREEDOM OF RELIGIOUS WORSHIP. Mr. HARDY brought in a bill to remove all restrictions on the freedom of religious worship, which was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday next, and be printed. He also presented several petitions for the relief of dissenters, from Brentford and other places. THE DORCHESTER UNIONISTS. Mr. O'CONNELL said he had intended to move for a copy of the record and conviction of the men convicted at Dorchester, the production of which he now understood would be opposed. He had been of opinion that the punishment was more than was warranted by the statute, but he had now heard that the sta tute was imperative as to transportation, and that the judge had no discretion. Now the law was not so; for the punishment, according to the statute, was " not exceeding " seven years' transportation; so that a month or a day would have been a compliance with the statute. (Cries of " Hear, hear.") He had had frequent occasions to move for records of cases tried in Ireland, but it had been intimated to him that his Majesty's government meant now to oppose his motion. He wished to ask the noble lord (Althorp) whether he intended to oppose it? Lord ALTHORP spoke in a very low tone of voice, but was undeistood to say that as the discussion could come on as well with as without the record, he should oppose it. Mr. O'CONNELL begged to ask whether the prisoners had been actually sent out of the country ? Lord ALTHORP did not know of his own knowledge, but his noble friend, the Under Secretary of State, would answer the question when he arrived. O'CONNELL then gave notice that on Friday next he would bring the subject on, but he thought it would not be satisfactory without the record. Upon the motion of Mr. EWART, the bill for abolish ing capital punishments upon criminals returning from transportation in certain cases was read a second time, and ordered to be read a third time on Wednesday, the 14th of May next. Also a bill for enabling prisoners and others to make their defence by counsel ; and a bill to abolish the practice of hanging the bodies of criminals in chains, were severally read a second time. WARWICK ELECTION. _ _ On the motion of Mr. HALCOMB, the minutes of the proceedings of the Warwick Election Committee, as taken by the committee clerks, were ordered to be laid before the house. . . _ Mr. J. JOHNSTON presented a petition from the members of some church in Scotland against the present system of church patronage. Mr. V. SMITH presented a petition from the Dissen ters of Northampton, praying to be relieved from their disabilities ; also a petition from Cheam, in Surrey, for the better observance of the Lord's Day: DISSENTERS' GRIEVANCES.-CAMBRIDGE PETITION. Mr. GOULBURN gave ;notice that, at the morning siting on Monday next, he would present a petition from members of the Senate of the University of Cambridge, deprecating any alteration in the constitution and regula tions of the university. Upon the motion of Mr. STANLEY, that the house gointo :a Committee of Supply, an hon. member re minded the noble lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer, that he had stated on a former day, that until the measure for the repeal of the house-tax was brought forward, he could not introduce any measure for the relief of the agri cultural interest. He wished to know, as the bill for the repeal of the house tax was now standing for a se cond reading, whether his Majesty's government had in contemplation any measure to assist the landed interest? Lord ALTHORP, as well as we could understand him, for he spoke in a very low tone of voice, said that the house must be aware that it was unusual to make a statement such as that required previous to bringing forward a motion; the proceeding would at least be irregular. The noble lord, in conclusion, said, as we understood him, that next session he would bring forward some proposition for the relief of the landed interest. Colonel PERCE VAL said he had a question to put to the right hon. gentleman opposite, arising from a trial that took place at the last assizes for Cork, at which a man of the name of Wright was prosecuted for murder. In consequence of an occurrence which took place there, viz., the testimony of a priest of the name of Burke, the prisoner was acquitted. This had excited a strong feeling in that country, and he wished to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's government to institute a criminal prosecution against the reverend gentleman. Lord ALTHORP replied, that as ulterior measures were contemplated, it would be unnecessary to give an answer to that at present. Sir S. WHALLEY wished to ask the noble lord when he intended to move the second reading of the bill for the repeal of the house tax, or whether it was the intention of government to repeal it at all ? Lord ALTHORP said the hon. member could have no doubt upon the question, and he did not believe any one else had. (Hear.) It was certainly his full intention to move the second reading of that bill, but as it would not take effect until October, there could be no necessity for its immediate introduction. The honourable mem ber, he understood, wished to get that bill out of the way in order to move for the repeal of the window tax, which he (Lord A. ), whether his bill were in the way or not, would oppose ; and which, as long as he was Chan cellor of the Exehequer, he would oppose. (Hear. ) Mr. HUME requested to know what were the inten tions of government in reference to the Local Courts Bill. Lord ALTHORP replied, that as there were measures before the house connected with it, it would not be de sirable to bring the bill forwards yet. Lord G. SOMERSET asked the hon. member for Cricklade why the return of the expenses of the Metropoli tan Commissioners with regard to lunatic asylums, which ought to be made before the 25th of March, had not yet been made. A clause was introduced last session by the Attorney-General, and he wished to know what the addi tional expense was which that clause had entailed upon the country. Mr. GORDON did not know why the noble lord should refer to him. He should apply to the noble lord who was at the head of that commission, who, however, was at pre sent absent from England. (A laugh. ) Lord G. SOMERSET thought the secretary and trea surer the proper person to apply to for information. Mr. GORDON said it was not his duty to afford it. Sir R. PEEL wished to know since by the 6th of George IV. it was enacted that the salary of the Lord Chief Justice should be reduced from 10,000 1 . to 8,0001. would it not be proper to have a specific act to r e g ulate the salary of Judges: Lord ALTHORP said the act provided that the salary should not exceed 10,0001. which was specific enough— there was no necessity for a new act. Mr. HUME wished to know whether the salary of Baron Williams had been reduced according to the regula tions provided ? Mr. RICE said as in the cases of the appointment of Mr. Justice Alderson and Justice Park, the salaries had been reduced five hundred pounds, the same regu lation was adopted in the case of Baron Williams. ORDER OF THE BATH. _ _ The SPEAKER then left the Chair, the house having re solved itself into committee. Mr. STANLEY should occupy the attention of the house for a short time while he went into a detail of some circumstances connected with the conferring of the grand orders of the Bath. Since the year 1814, there was a great augmentation in the number of persons who had had the honour of receiving those orders. Some new regulations were contemplated, and it was sug gested to his Majesty to limit that number, so as to render it much more a mark of distinction than of degradation to enjoy that honour. For, however honourable it might be to be admitted to them, yet if the number be indefinitely increased, the exceptions upon the rule would be too many to have them considered a mere exception. It was intended to adopt the statute to the circumstances of some who might be admitted to those orders, especially military men, so as to exempt them from the enormous fees ordinarily paid on admission. It was intended those on whom the order of the Great Cross should be conferred were to be exempted, for it came very burdensome on military men, who had little more than their honours, to be subject to such heavy payments of fees. The amount charged to those upon whom the honour was conferred was paid in the shape of fees, partly to the officers appointed, partly to the Lord Chamberlain, and then there was a sum of 1/. 3s. 6d. to the King's barber, which it would be admitted was quite unnecessary ; but the charge to officers upon whom that honour was conferred amounted to 386/. This, it would be admitted, was an enormous sum. (Hear, hear.) The officers of the order amounted to about nine, and the salaries paid them amounted to 550/. annually. (Hear, hear.) Besides these salaries there was also a sum of about 2.50/. paid annually by the public, for the fees of foreigners of distinction upon it was thought proper to confer the order, but whom it was not considered right to charge, and these fees had been defrayed by the public. It was proposed to reduce the officers of the order from nine to four, and to make the total amount of their salaries rather less than it now stood upon the civil list, and to do away with the expense which was hitherto borne by these distinguished - officers. Many of the officers of the order held their situations by letters patent and other titles, and he (Mr. Stanley) need hardly say that it would be necessary to compensate them. ( Hear, hear. ) For this purpose, therefore, he proposed to move a resolution (which would enable him afterwards to bring in a bill) to inquire into the amount of fees paid to the officers of the Order, and the tenure and right under which they held their offices, in order to award them such compensation as might be deemed necessary. The right honourable gentleman concluded by moving— " That it is the opinion of the committee of this house, that the Commispners of his Majesty's Treasury be au thorised to make compensation out of the consolidated fund of the United Kingdoms of Great Britain and Ireland, to such officers of the Military Order of the Bath as may be deprived of certain salaries and fees to which they were entitled to under the existing statutes of the said Order." Mr. HUME said it was very true that such offices were absurd, and really improper. The right honourable gentleman seemed to forget the absurdity also of the fees that were requiredto be paid on other occasions. It would be recollected that the committee on military establishments •had found that certain individuals from the station they held were subject to enormous charges ; so much so, that very often an officer appointed to some inconsiderable office in the colonies had to remain there for some years actu [ ally to make up the amount required. Sir George Hill, on being appointed Governor of St. Vincent, had to pay fees to the extent of 5641. 10s. Sir Lewin Grant, on receiving a similar appointment, had to pay 458/. Sir L. Smith had to pay no less a sum than 5981. 18s. Against all this there was, as there could not fail to be, great complaint, although, for the last three years he (Mr. H.) did not know that the sub ject had been mentioned in the house (Hear, hear) except once when it was brought forward by himself. The house had been taken by surprise as to the intention of government on this subject. The most meritorious officers had to pay the most objectionable fees on being appointed to honours. The present honour or order was a royal order—it was in the King's hands to say what fees should be paid on exercise of his royal pre rogative. lie had on a former time submitted a proposition for the reduction of all fees of this descrip tion , • and the house ought to go further than was nowproposed. (Hear.) It ought not to take this order in an isolated way, a very different course ought to be taken, which he hoped would, and then satis faction might be expected to be given. Mr. Hume next proceeded to particularise the various items. There were Si. for herald's fees. Now, the herald might be a poor man ; but still he did not see why t'he country should be charged for his support. He ought to be made to do without such fees. Then there was 201. for the Garter King-at-Arms ; 161. for the Scotchfunetionary. Mr. O'CONNELL—What for the Irish? Mr. HUME—Oh, nothing goes to Ireland. (Laughter.) The fees were most shameful. There was 26/. ss. for the chief clerk ; messengers, 2/. ; and coach-hire, Si. 10s. He did not know what the making a baron had to do with coach-hire. (Laughter.) Black rod, 21. 10s. The entire question should be considered together ; and if the right hon. gentleman would take a suggestion from him, he would agree that a committee should be appointed (Hear), to take the entire question into consideration. (Hear.) The King might confer an honour, but he should pay for it. He likewise considered, that a patent granted by one King ought not to be held under another. It should expire with the demise of the sovereign who granted it. The King, likewise, ought not to have the power to grant honours, Iwhen the people were to be taxed for conferring them. ( Hear.) If the prerogative was taken away, there would be an immense saving to the country. Such were the subjects that should engage the attention of a reformed parliament. Reform was but a nullity, if such proceedings were al lowed to go on unchecked and unrestrained. He was an old stager in abuses. (Hear, hear, and much laughter.) He was an old hand, and accustomed to such expressions of opinion, and was not to be moved by them. ( Hear.) He had been well acquainted with all the de grees and shapes which corruption and abuse had taken, but did not know till the other day that the mercantile community had been charged 11,000/. a year for the bill of entry ; and such an impost had been going on for the last ten years ; 1,0001. a year was given as a salary to the officer, and the remaining portion to a purpose against which he did not object—some charitable institution at Greenwich. He had learned that circumstance by find ing, in a public office, that 1501. a year was charged for a patent place, coming out of the profits of the bill of entry. Thus 61. a year was demanded for a document which the public would get for 1/. but for this shameful monopoly. He stood forward to advocate the lessening of the public expenditure, the abolishing of useless offices, the drawing of the drains which fed the pampered sinecurist, and bring ing the outlay of the country within fair, just, and equit able limits. He did not wish—God forbid he did—to re strain his Majesty from making dukes, marquises, earls, viscounts barons, grand crosses, and the rest ; but let him do it at his own expense ; let him draw upon his own ample resources, and let not the beggarly people of England (No, no)—yes, he would say the beggarly, over-taxed, poor, hard-working people of England—be called upon to pay for such honours. England was strictly a civil country, a nation opposed in constitution, habits, feelings, and desires to the despotic states of the continent ; still it was found that all distinctions were almost exclusively conferred upon military and naval officers. There were no orders to re ward the man of genius and of science; none to pay him for the halo he gave to the name of England. If honour was to be conferred upon him, the King should look be yond the seas for it. He must go to Hanover to find the crosses and the ribands. There were but few men of emi nence (whose pursuits were civil) Knights of the Bath ; they were, indeed, few and far between. There were five orders—the Garter, Thistle, St. Patrick, the Bath, and the fifth, a new one, St. Michael and St. George of the lonian Islands ; but there was not one to give honour to the man of genius and talent. It was quite different on the Continent—there was found the man of literary emi nence in his proper place. If they went to Prussia, they found him honoured—if to France, highly and nobly dis tinguished. England stood alone, and still she was a civil country. (Hear, hear.) But again, to refer to the im mediate subject before the house, he would not consent that so serious a charge upon the public should be left to the discretion of the Lords of the Treasury. He should, therefore, move as an amendment, to refer his Majesty's message to a committee of the house to report thereon. Mr. BERNAL would put it to his hon. friend whether he would persist in his amendment ; he must be aware that it could not be entertained, inasmuch as the question was then before a committee of the house. Mr. HUME—WeII, then, he should get over the in formality, and move that the Chairman should report pro gress, and get leave to sit again. - The question having been put, Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY seconded the motion for the l i Chairman to quit the chair, and get leave to sit again. Mr.. STANLEY said no great inducement certainly was held out to ministers to come down to relieve the country from burdens which pressed heavily upon the people, when they were met, as had been the case that evening, with charges of indifference to the public distress. Here they were desirous to put an end to fees which were onerous, but to deal fairly with those who claimed compensation. Some of the fees, he admitted, might be uncalled for, and were unnecessary, but that was a reason for the course which ministers then proposed to adopt. The order had been instituted in 1399, and the fees had not increased since 1725. ( Hear, hear.) Now, they proposed to do away with the fees ; and with the reservation, that fees which were held by patent should be secured by a just and equit able tenure. ( Hear.) It had been stated that rewards were conferred solely on naval and military officers. Now that, he contended, was incorrect. The highest orders were not debarred from civilians. (Hear, hear.) As to the fees chargeable at the investiture, he considered they ought not to fall on the officers themselves. Men who had served and bled in the cause of their country, with, perhaps, mo derate incomes, should not be called upon to pay for that which they had nobly andhonourably earned. ( Hear, hear. ) Well, then, if that fact was admitted, if that concession was given to him, he would defy any other conclusion to be come to, than the one which he supported. In respect to the amendment proposed, it would be ungracious if they reported progress, and gave no answer but complaints to the message of his Majesty. Sir E. CODRINGTON hoped no amendment would be carried to the motion, which he called a benevolent one, then before the house. He held in his hand the original bill which had been presented to him when he had been made-Grand Cross of the Bath, and which showed the charges made to be most monstrous. He had been shocked when it first came before him, and determined never to pay a farthing of it. (Hear, hear.) The honour had been conferred upon him gratuitously ; he did not seek it ; if he was called upon to purchase it, he would consider it valueless, and if he had paid the fees, would consider it in no other light than a purchase. (Hear, hear, hear. ) He had shown the bill to the Lords of the Admiralty, who said it was too bad, but declared he should pay it. He s trongly said—No ! (Laughter.) He was then referred to the Order in Council : but he answered he did not make the Order in Council. The King's Household demanded 122/. 2s. from him ; he did not know for what. He de nied their right, and the sequel proved he had not been w rong : the claim had not been pressed. (Laughter. ) There could be no justifiable grounds to call on officers to pay for distinctions which their sovereign and country had conferred. After the war a number of orders were granted by his late Majesty ; and when the bills were sent to the respective officers, they demurred to their liquidation. They went to Court to the Levee, and left the bills on the table to be paid by the King if he thought fit. (Hear, hear.) He (Sir E. Codrington) would now read the bill he had got to the house, and begged its attention. It was as follows : Secretary of State £:6 17 6 Seven officers of the Order 164 17 2 King's Household 122 2 0 The Lord Chamberlain's Office 26 14 6 College of Arms for Supporters 55 16 0 Making a total of £3S6 7 2 He (Sir Edward Codrington) had, however, no reason personally to complain ; for he had heard no more of the matter. Colonel DAVIES would support the amendment. Mr. O'CONNELL said the first question to be consi dered was the legality of those fees. Now, from the state ment of the gallant - admiral, they were not legal, for if l ega l, why were they not enforced? lir. STANLEY must interrupt the hon. member fc4 Dublin ; from the gallant admiral's distinguished services, there had been an exception made in his favour. His fees were paid by the public. Mr. O'CONNELL—WeII, be it so ; but what would be said of the crowd of officers who had thrown their bills on the King's table ? The gallant admiral had exposed a species of pure piracy, and no one was better qualified to blow ' such a system up than the hon. and distinguished officer. Sir ROBERT PEEL merely rose for the purpose of recording his dissent to an observation—in fact a proposi tion—made by the hon. member for Middlesex—namely, the institution of a new order for rewarding scientific men. He was strongly opposed to such a principle, and he denied that such was at all necessary. The King had already the power of rewarding those who had risen to eminence by their talents and exertions in their respective professions, and it would not be prudent to further interfere. The hon. member, himself a scientific man, must know that there were some men to whom honours were unnecessary, which could not confer higher dignity than their genius and their talent had invested them with. What he (Sir R. Peel) would ask, would a blue riband or a collar do for a Newton? (Hear, hear.) Would they make his name more hallowed—his family more endurable? No, cer tainly not. There should be a line of distinction drawn, for, if not, many would be seeking them ; the members of the House of Commons would be looking for orders; but such would not accord with the simplicity of the English character. He would not mix up scientific ingenuity with military favour ; he would leave it in the possession of its own ennobling honours. (Hear.) He trusted the plan of the hon. member for Middlesex would be adopted. Mr. WARBURTON considered the right hon. baronet must have mistaken the purport of his hon. friend's re marks. He had not proposed the creation of a new order of knighthood, but he had stated that rewards were solely conferred on naval and military officers. Neither had the right hon. the Secretary for the Colonies nor the gallant admiral rightly understood his hon. friend. He opposed the principle then contended for. He would do away with all existing expenses attachable to the conferring the dig nity of knighthood, and have a full investigation into the different offices whose holders were considered to be enti tled to remuneration. Mr. STANLEY said there was very little if any diffe rence in the question. It had never been intended to grant compensation to those who were not fully entitled to it ; and he would appeal to the right hon. baronet opposite if the inquiry would not be better placed before the Lords of the Treasury than in a committee of that house. Sir HENRY HARDINGE agreed with the right hon. gentleman in referring the question entirely to the trea sury. While on his legs, he could not avoid stating that he considered the order of the bath had become deterio rated. Honours should be conferred with a most sparing hand, if they were to be considered of great value. Major HANDLEY would support the hon. member for Middlesex's amendment. Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON opposed the giving of compensation in such a case. The original fees were 1201. and now they were no less than 1,2001. Mr. JERVIS objected to the proposition before the house, because he could see no grounds for giving com pensation. Mr. HUME could not object to this resolution, in as far as it simply went to abolish those fees. He would ask, however, the right hon. gentleman, whether he would not extend the resolution, so as to abolish all fees, not only on receiving the order of the bath, but also on receiving all other honorary grants ? He thought, however, that the subject had better be referred to a committee up stairs, but he would not divide the house on the amendment. The report was then agreed to, and ordered to be received on Monday next. SALARY OF THE LORD CHIEF JUSTICE. On the motion being made for the house to resolve itself into a committee of supply, Sir ROBERT PEEL wished to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite a question regarding the salary of the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench. He wished to know by what authority the salary of the present Lord Chief Justice was restricted to 8,0001. a year? He thought that the Lord Chief Justice had, by law, a vested interest in a salary of 10,0001. Even so late as 1832, an act was passed which fixed the salary of all the judges ap pointed till a certain period at 5,5501. a year, and those appointed after that period at 5,0001. By the same act the salary of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland was fixed at 8,0001. and that of the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench in England at 10,0001. Now he wished to know by what authority the salary had been lessened? Mr. SPRING RICE said that the present Lord Chief Justice had accepted the office under a specific understand ing that he should take it at the limited salary. If, how ever, the right hon. baronet would ask him the question on Monday, he should be able to give a more specific answer than he could at present. He was fully aware of the ob jection of the right hon. baronet. The right hon. baro net considered that if the salaries of the judges were fixed by the law, it would be inexpedient if any authority short of the law should be allowed to alter them. He (Mr. Rice) would at present say no more on the subject, but would be ready to give an answer on Monday. Sir R. PEEL said, that if the right hon. gentleman could get over that point he would be perfectly satisfied. Mr. AGLIONBY begged to ask the right hon. baronet a question regarding a bill, which excited a good deal of interest in the whole of the northern parts of the kingdom. He alluded to a bill which was introduced by the Attorney- General last session, the object of which was to allow te nants of customary lands to grant demises of those lands. He wished to know whether the Government still adhered to the intention of passing such a bill ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM would communicate with his learned friend, the Attorney-General, on the subject, and as far as he was concerned, he should rejoice to see such a measure passed. The house then resolved itself into a COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY. On the motion that 1,940/. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the civil establishment of the Bahama Islands, Mr. - HUME hoped that the right hon. Secretary for the Colonies would hold out a hope of some reduction in the expense of the American colonies. Mr. STANLEY was as much inclined as the hon. gentleman to reduce those expenses, but in the distressed state of Newfoundland he could hold out no hope of reduc tion as far as regarded that colony. With regard to Prince Edward's Island he hoped that in a few years it would cease to be a burden to this country.—Agreed to. Mr. SPRING RICE then moved that 4,2941. be granted to his Majesty to defray the expenses of the civil establishment of the Bermuda Islands. After a few words from Mr. HUME, Mr. O'CONNELL said, in reference to what had been said on the Judges' salaries, he thought that judges ought either to have such high salaries that they could afford to save something out of them, or have handsome retiring al lowances. He knew that judges did not retire when their age and infirmities would often prompt them to do so, merely because, in retiring, they not only abandoned all the patronage and dignity accompanying the seat on the bench, but because they also abandoned a large portion of the salary. It would, in his opinion, be of advantage to the public if there was little or no difference made between the salary of a judge while on the bench and his retiring allowances. Mr. HUME deprecated the system of allowing colonial judges to retire, in the prime of life and health, after six or seven years of service. He knew many India jugdes who might very well be promoted to the bench, and their present retiring allowance thereby saved. Many of them were just as fit to be judges as he was.—(A laugh. ) Mr. C. FERGUSSON said that the hon. member for Middlesex seemed to think of nothing but cheap justice. He (Mr. F.) felt differently. He would not, like the hon. member, look first whether the commodity was cheap, and then look if it were good. He would first look if it was good, and then see if it was cheap. Mr. O'CONNELL fully concurred in opinion with the hon. and learned member for Kirkcudbright, and it was on that account he had said that such salaries should be given to judges that they could lay up a part. Mr. HUME was sure that high salaries did not always insure good services. As an instance of which, a gentle man had lately been appointed to the bench in Ireland, who, according to the hon. and learned member for Dub lin, was the worst calculated in Ireland for such an ap pointment. This showed that high salaries did not insure Mr. STANLEYyen on the ground o f economy , t o pay t h e od co s u e n rv tr ic y e said, that it w ou ld be advantageous for the go judges well: After a few words from Mr. S. RICE, the vote was agreed to. - 3,1201. were then voted to defray the expenses of the civil establishment of Prince Edward's Island. Mr. S. RICE then moved that 12,3611. 13s. 6d. be granted to defray the expenses of the civil establishment on the West coast of Africa. Mr. HUME asked how long the country was to continue to pay these large sums for that useless colony ? Mr. S. RICE said that the expense had been greatly reduced. In 1831, the expense of one establishment on the coast of Africa was 50,000/. ; in 1832, 33,0001. ; in 1833, 17,000/. ; and now it was only 12,0001.—(11ear.) It was absolutely necessary that the country should . have an establishment on the coast of Africa ; and it was a ques tion whether Fernando Po or Sierra Leone should be re tained ; but it was found that the Spanish Government had a claim on Fernando Po, and consequently Fernando Po was entirely abandoned, and Sierra Leone was kept. Colonel DAVIES said that Fernando Po ought not to have been abandoned. Spain wished to get possession of it, in order to facilitate the slave trade which that country carried on. Mr. S. RICE said that it was the wish of the Govern ment to retain Fernando Po instead of Sierra Leone • but that was not practicable on account of the claim of the Spanish Government. After a few words from Mr. HUME, Sir JAMES GRAHAM said that the report of the ad miral on the coast was decidedly in favour of retaining Sierra Leone in preference to Fernando Po. lie was glad to say that the colony of liberated Africans at Sierra Leone was flourishing; that the people were intelligent, active, and industrious; that some of them were now em ployed on board the King's ships on that coast, and th at civilization was making great progress among them. The vote was then agreed to. .dh e On the motion being put that 14,87 0 /. IBs. b • ta , granted to defray the expense of our ecclesiastic al es blishment in the North American provinces, e Mr. ROEBUCK ro s e to oppose the motion. rfb, salary of the Bishop of Quebec was 3,0001., which more than the income of almost any landed proprietor la that country. He moved as an amendm ent, that the vole to be reduced to 7,8701., and he was dete rmined to divide ti house on the question. Mr. STANLEY said that it was only a few year s ag° v that it had been resolved that the colonies should deb's, the expense of their own ecclesiastical establishments, a! the proposition at the time created such as tonishment 1 !: the hon. member for Middlesex, that he exclaime4, " What, bishops and all ?" At that time it was resolve., that the present incumbents should retain their salaries 4 order not to interfere with the rights of individuals. 11.', regard to the salary of the Bishop of Quebec, any reducnotio would be of as little consequence to that rev. prelate ast.i. any man ; for a few years ago, when he felt that from i t ': great extent of his diocese, he could not give it that tention which he thought he should give, he offe r ; & give 1,000/. of his salary, in order to establish an t pendent prelacy in the upper part of the country; a d ' e was only declined on account of the arrangement 0, The vote, as originally proposed, was then with Parliament, that in future the colonies s hould OP port their own ecclesiastical establishments. Mr. SPRING RICE moved, that a sum o ' l'l exceedi st e settlement 5,8061. be granted to defray the expenses of th of Western Australia, from March 1834 till 18 35. on ly Mr. HUME had heard it stated that the CO loYge contained a population of 1,500 souls altogether. the begged to ask the right hon. gentleman opposite, w i l le d to the proposed grant was not too large ? He also wisil that know what was the exact amount of the population 0 colony. h use Mr. STANLEY said the hon. member and 00' might rest assured that there was no unnecessary Veto ture of the public money in the settlement of e s Australia. hich 10 1 not t0..14 just had M b r e . e S n P v ß er l y N gr G ea ß tl l y C r E edu sa ee id d t i h n at th t e he ee fi n gu rse re::: en ;l e ; e i: been mentioned showed that the expenses of the c It was extremely difficult at all times to establish a , -de colony, and it certainly could not be done without a_np, expenditure of money in the first instance. As re l , 6- r , for the concluding question of his hon. friend the ine x tiol Middlesex, he (Mr. Spring Rice) could not tell e Tir e the exact amount of population in the settlement 0 1 '' wsi Australia ; but of this he was quite certain, that it much greater than his hon. friend supposed. The vote was then agreed to. A sum of 20,000/. was voted to defray the expen se d the establishment in the Indian Department in UPP er Lower Canada. 23,000/. were voted on account of the expe ns es of n e th di s, deau Canal, from March of the present year till March , 1 The next grant proposed was the sum of MO yi d meet the salaries of the governors, deputy - g °veo nie r?, s other officers in his Majesty's West India Colo Agreed to. of ' . 30,0 be granted to defray the salarie'rof the speci al justice.s. appointed, under the act of last session, for the abohtio o° too Mr. SPRING RICE moved, that th e sum s slavery throughout the British colonies. In answer to a question from Mr. HUME , Mr. N stipend iary lndies, but others would go as soo n as the neces sal ST A magistrates st Y rat stated, that , b been as n yet s ent only fourteen to theokrtlefti: rangements in the colonies were completed. The vote was then agreed to. thel The next sum moved for was 1,457!. 15s. to de'' tsj salaries and other expenses of the seven emigration In answer to a question from an How. MEacen',, e of Mr. STANLEY gave some account of the na'-„iie these agencies. He stated that early last year an aPr„„cdl tion had been made to the house from Liverpool, iln.",:n'd one of its members, stating the great inconvenienc,ees expense sustained not only by the emi,grants thenaseli, __"eot by the town, from the want of some efficient arrangel,l.l.o for the due forwarding of emigrants to their several s e s e „ o t nations in America. In very many cases emigrants in the vague idea that an emigration ship was a great portion of their earnings in coming to 1- • " although, in point of fact, the ship was not to sail for n!,,, time. The consequence was, that the rest of theirrinaola speedily went, in most cases the paupers being det nu. e , of it by the numerous cheats who lurked about undherjled tence of giving them information, getting them bert . _ r a s o f so on, and the consequence had been that vast nuni n , e _ s of emigrants were annually thrown on the poor raic6o, Liverpool, sometimes for six months together. reside vernment had accordingly appointed an agent tn. o , in at Liverpool, who devoted his whole time inn ivu! ri , to formation to emigrants as to the best mode of gMein America, the best place to go to, and toproteci,hed against every species of fraud. The consequencertioo been most satisfactory and gratifying to all P a 4fte ea since the appointment of the agent not less than about tossoa_oe thousand emigrants had derived the benefit of his a,... 00 ,1 assistance, and protection ; and, instead of being tit sa . on the funds of the town, had been forwarded to their use rious destinations with the least possible delay and esP e _.,, to themselves. In s h ort , the plan had been found to a: e, swer so well, that government had made similar arra . tig ments with six other sea-port towns—namely, 13nissoo Dublin, Belfast, Cork, Limerick, and Greenock ; and . these places the plan had produced the same beneficial sults to all parties. The arrangement made by G which ment with the authorities of these seven places, an" f had been most readily agreed to, was that they s hould the nish the respective agents With board and lodgin g",hieli salaries paid to each agent was 1001. a year, beside!a he 50/. a year each was allowed for sundry expenses; f u ll b e (Mr. Stanley) had the best reason for stating his. lief that this small outlay was the means of saving s' hundred times its amount in the course of the year' rr ect' Lord SANDON bore testimony to the perfect.,_° e ery ness of the right hon. secretary's statement of to' beneficial sir re v sts tN of E th y e wararsanugnedmeresntototdo to L ask iverpool• ber ani H. w het similarit g going t arrangemen t os A Australi a N LE„, ht r. Mr. SLANEY co would be very advisable. res eg • - ir had been made in favour of einigl saneidn,rrneodt in n t t p h r e e present, oba butt 10; ohly e by hon. members of the arrangement ; it Was l l ° securiod ditable to government to have thus interfered `,T i ed et r „. l3 l to the emigrant the full benefit of his hard - e a ,,, a ings. The hon. member concluded by Pes, s Y xerP °- eulogy on Sir Wilmot Horton for his distinguis°` -e in favour of emigrants. „if. Wil" Mr. HUME utterly and entirely objected tfT ri t b ee , mot Horton's plans, which he was very glad carried into effect ; he (Mr. H.) was A holly be e all such compulsory measures. He approved n though t vernment arrangement, and (as we understood..) oive,rs' that the selection of agents among half-pay n alia' in general a very notorious body, was creditable to g et' ters. He thought that the appointment of a ein /il lial ; t :i for the city of London would be extremely be .. , rl A " reeL," ‘ ,3 all parties, and he was pretty sure the city Not" - ., e ce?` make the same terms with government as had been on the other towns. Mr. RUTHVEN also expressed his favourable opt of the arrangement. f age Mr. PEASE said that he hoped the same so .- ° O , ing. t 4 cies would be established in favour of emigrantsi„e:ressl- Australia, who at present laboured under very difficulties from the want of such assistance. 1 The vote was agreed to. r i It IRISH ESTIMATES. Esiltilmr.atSePs R w l as N G p r RlCE,epar ep r epare d fnirn objections brinng forward wa• a:edribtocepiettitibatet' nature. By some, he knew, it would be e h J t - herV,,- they had been reduced too much, and by ° ;,,,,0 1,e ,,i5 member for Middlesex, .perhaps, amongst the „'" th°l s es that they were not sufficiently reduced. Ilenre l— e otittl,e; since he had come into his present office the Irish tha t t had been reduced 104,0001., yet he felt confide, l ttere si' o b• were not so reduced at the expense of the real — o ber 00 Ireland. (Hear, hear.) Before any hon. o re e let bec ii jetted to the reductions which had taken Y la :10 13 0 , 11 ent examine upon what it was that the reductulioterheo.l made. Was it, he would ask, the duty of th e esr,„ colt' to continue the charter schools of Ireland? 051‘ , itaf : Was it the duty of the government, he wotn.oo, gost re tinue such an institution as the Founa l l vote (Hear, hear.) These were two grants Le o s Of the ductions had been made. (Hear.) There stions tout '. upon which he wished to offer a few observ a te for tiv olt house, as it was a new one—he meant the v ° r iment o ar tion. (Hear. ) If ever there was an eq e „ t o t ot" the result of which the originators had reas e ; f e atte 4 a tulate themselves, it was this new syster% lavi sh b e s t i t which certainly did full justice to those `P t e i t ei (Hear, hear.) It had been objected to tile_S t hern s , ce e . 3 was impracticable, as the people would not 0 7ot s ';',.elv of it; and it had also been said that it COT s „ ai ate" or be attended with advantage, b ecau se it I na4e t ioo gious from civil education. Those who 131 -'1 7. ap plia e objections he should refer to the number 0 1 ,,siv nil' which had been made to the Board, for a " wer e 0 ,01 , swer to their reasoning. The applicatielherationier merous, which was not a matter of td apply grs°,, government whether or not they won. net her T o r w as a 2 110 larger grant. ( Hear, hear. ) There tie lop' t which required a few words in explanation negastlos"'(ll4 For e of 2,000/. in the grant to the For a long series of years that instituti ' ge n e t:4oi private subscriptions. 30,0001. (the r ight b " the fe l Sieg e was understood to say) was subscribed , yutistea• dpi o science, upon which the institution main.)" . „ s supp ort, :yr 1827 a grant of 1,500/. was voted for " i of 2, 00°1 ' "' tha t the present estimate an additional grant he Pu r P °se Aear .) ~„c a ti°,l l„ ' of the institution by local subs( riptions. a nt for el "'" Mr. RUTHVEN approved of the gr lfastlnstitutioo;.,steel as also the additional grant to the Be of giv i n g a 5. ) .10 1 iii was happy to hear that the experiment been sn succ e of national education to Irelan i had At ,ecaroi ric(siuniforbaeddraitiisoendalforbuthildeinsagms,e upon the c its results. 20,0001., be granted to enable t co e Ireland to'issue money for the advancement The question was then put that I ea aLainordnlTieyet-acunfoioa 41. z th e Pp(