The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-25 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, 3141 CH 24. S:r A. GRANT, Mr. R. TREvoa, and others from the House of Cornmi,ns, brought up several private Bills. Mr. Viztril, the Lord Chancellor's Secretary of Bank ruptcies, brought up a return of the fees received by the Cornxri•sinner• of Bankrupts for the last three years. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented a peti e lion from Bath against the Beer Bill, which he considered as having it tendency to demoralize the people. The LORD CHANCELLOR had received communi cations to the same effect from the northern counties, but the Act was net what it was originally intended to be.— The Bill which he himself hail proposed, and which be lAieved the Bill in question, originally went only to allow any person to sell beer which was not to be consumed on the premises. The object was that persons might have beer without going for it to the public-houses, but by sending for it tie a shop, as for any other article required for household consumption. The Bill had, it appeared, been altered in that respect in its progress through the Raise of Commons. But, perhaps, the bad effect was but temporary, like that which was apt for a time to follow all alterations; and if so, it would soon lie at an end; otherwise it might perhaps be expedient to reconsider the sul,ject. The Earl of ESSEX presented a petition from the county of Essex, in favour of the Mieisierial plan of Re form ; also three petitions to the same effect from places in the same county. Lord DURHAM presented a petition to the same effect from Chester.le-street, in the county of Durham ; also a petition from the operatives of Glasgow, praying for a re peal of the duties on newspapers and other channels for the communication of knowledge. E al GREY presented a petition from the freeholders of Down, signed by upwards of 1,500 persons, in favour of Reform. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY did not consider the petition as expressing the sentiments of the freeholders of Down, it was not signed by one person of respectability, it had been got up in a private room in Downpatrick, and though signed by 1,300 persons, yet it must be remembered there were upwards of 25,000 freeholders in Down, and it would not therefore be taken as express ing the feelings of the county. With all the respect he felt for the Noble Earl at the head of his Ma jesty's Government, he must say, however, that whenever he introduced his measure to this House, he said it was to he an efficient and moderate Re form. It certainly was efficient, but where the mo deration was to be found he could not discover.— It was only a resting place towards universal suffrage and vote by ballot. If the measure ever passed, it would certainly do nothing score than turn our universal Constitution into all that anarchy and misery which had deluged foreign countries. He asserted that there had been an undue influence exercised by his Majesty's Government in stating that the measure had received the Royal approbation. The people of England had heen deceived by such insinuation, and he maintained that the threats of dissolving Parliament which had been h, Id out should the measure not pass, was unworthy of the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government. The principle of the measure had been termed revolutionary. —( Hear, hear, hear.)—He was not disposed to give it that epithet. He, however, considered that it would be the ruin of the Aristocracy, and that no Minister of the Crown could form an Administration if the Bill was carried into effect. He believed that if the Aristocracy did not rally round themselves, they would soon find that the House would be shaken to its foundation, and that the power of the Crown would be every day diminished.—(Hear, hear.) Earl GREY said, that with respect to the petition, which the Noble Lord had stated was signed by no one respectable individual, be had received it as a petition emanat ing from a county meeting, and held under the autho rity of the High Sheriff. No opposition whatever had b.ta made at tiiis meeting. and the petition was agreed to by upwards of 1,300 persons, every one of whim was registered es a freeholder of ten pounds. The Noble anal Learned Lord had asserted that no person had -iened the petition but those of the very lowest de scription. He would at once contradict the Noble Lord in that assertion, by stating that it was signed by the High Sheriff, by Dr. Alexander 111‘Dennell, a plo-sician of great eminence, and by Mr. Ford, who at one time represented ti.e county of Down in Parliament. The Noble Marquis had stated that the measure had not met with the universal approbation of the country. Now he most positively asserted, in the presence of the Noble Lords who were capable of contradicting him if he stated that which was not the fact, that there never did prevail in this country so general a sentiment in favour of any measure --(Hear, bear)—as that which hail been expressed in favour of Parliamentary Reform. With respect to the principte on which the measure proceeded, he would not be induced on this occa sion to follow the Noble Lord through his arguments on the merits of the Bill, as these arguments had consisted of assertions totally without foundation. He, however, would state that tie principle of the mea sure was a principle of Reform—a thing which the present state of things required, namely an altera tion of the repre.entati in of the people in Parlia ment. Among the mos- strenuous oppositionists there Lad net been found a single individual who could deny that propesi ion. For the purpose of bearing out that a,gument he would refer to the division that had taken place in the House of Commons the other night. How had that division been obtained but by the admis sion of every ne present of the necessity of some Reform ? It had hien stated in that House, if the second reading was ant carried, that acting upon the piin ciple which had been now proposed by Ministers, an other measure of Reform, though not the same, should he brought forward in favour of that principle; therefore be Lad not (tally the declarations of the people, but the unanimous vote of the House of Commons on both sides, and that too in one of the fullest houses that ever was assembled. The Noble Earl went on to observe—the Noble Marquis (Londonderry - ) says, that this measure goes too far—that he admits the necessity of Reform ; but then, he says that it ought to he a gradual— a sa fe Reform—a Reform—bit-by-bit.—(Hear, hear ) In other w , rds, the Noble Marquis wants a Reform which will satisfy nobody, and which will only sow the Feeds of Aisappointment throughout the nation, and ultimately lead to the adoption of a measure in a much worse shape, forced upon Parliament and poised under much has favourable circumstances. But then the Noble Marquis says, that this will be a resting place—a step towards annual Parlia ments, universal suffrage, and the ballot, and he is pleased to add, that he knows that I am adverse to these, anal is glad that in case the measure passes, he, and thoea who agree with him, will have my assistance in opposing thee? pretensions. This, lie says, is a great consolation to him ; but that is a consolation which the Noble Marquis might have had long ago, for I have always declared against an nual Parliaments and universal suffrage, also to vote by ballot, from the time that that method of Reform was mentioned, for it is only lately that it has engaged the public attention. But then, he says, that what was expected from us was moderate Reform, and that this Reform is not moderate. The Noble Marquis may re member, that as soon as I had taken office I declared that I was so strongly impressed with the justness end reason ableness—not to say the necessity for Reform—that / would immediately address myself to prepare a moderate, cer tainly, but also an efficient measure of Reform, thinking this the best, if not the only way to conciliate the favour of the best men of all classes of the community, and to secure public confidence in the Parliament and the Gover ment. And is hen I was, very unexpectedly on my part— I rather wishing to avoid than to court the distinguished honour—but when I was called upon by his Majesty to take the management of public affairs into my handy, a proposal which was made in so gracious a manner, that I shall remember it with gratitude and affection as long as I live—l felt eo strongly on this subject, that I tank the liberty of telling his Majesty that without hieing allowed to propose some measure of this kind, it would be impossible for me to serve him effectually or successfully. The Noble Marquis says, that an undue use has been made of the sacred name of his Majesty, fur the purpose of influencing the public todeclare in favour of the measure, and order ing Members of Parliament to vote for it, and in order to give force and weight to the statements and arguments of Ministers in its suppnrt. I think the Noble Marquis will acquit me of any practice of that sort , nor do I know that a ny one of us has made use t . of his Majesty's influence or Paine in the matter, excep far as to say that, since t h e ineabure was proposed b y " b • ljesty's Ministers, it mus t be notorious, according t o X A. principles and practice of the Con stitu t ion, that it ha d the sanction of his Ma authority it cou ld not j„ty, without whose sanction and have been i ntroduced b y his servants. I kn ow o f no other way in which any use has been made of his Majesty's name ; and to say in that woy that the measure has his Majesty's sanction, is to say nothing but that which must benoto.ious to every body. The Noble Marquis says that it was unworthy of one to lend my authority to on improper use of his Majesty's name, I have done no such thing, Ey e , if I could b aye, under any circumstances, made an improper use of his Majosty'e n ime, teere wee, in this instance, no , rimestersa fur .t, for I am convinced that t he measure bus, on its own merits, secured the almost unanimous approba tion of the nation, although the Noble Marquie thinks that it is only a resting place; a step to universal suffrage, an nual Parliaments, and vote by ballot. I can only say that these things are no part of my measure, and I say further, that it has no tendency to lead to Vitae things, but that, on the contrary, its tendency as well as its object is to exclude them. There is nothing here in favour of ballot, or annual Parliaments, or universal suffrage; and I have enly further to add, in answer to those who ni,y -oppose that there is any difference among his Majesty's Ministers about it, that there is not a clause in it in which all of us have not concurred. Under the circumstances, I leave the House to judge whether we have made any un due use of his Majesty's sacred name and authority. But then the Noble Marquis says that threats of dis.olution have been thrown out, and he calls upon me to make a declaration on the subject. I shall make no such declara tion ; but, at the ssme time, I have no objection to say that I consider myself completely committed by, and iden tified with the measure, and by this upasure i shall stan:l or fall. That in so complicated a scheme, formed upon such a large and extensive subject, something may not require to be altered, is certainly more than I can undertake to assert : but this I will say, that, as far as depends upon me, I will suffer no alteration to be made that will detract I from its efficiency. As an efficient measure, I will stand or fall by it ; and without throwing out any threat of dissolution, I have no objection to say, that in order to support and carry into effect this measure, as an efficient measure, there are no means sanctioned by the principles and practice of the Constitution, and by a de * voted sense of public duty, from the employment of which I. will shrink. —(1-Tar.) Further I shall not say on that subject. The Noble Marquis has said, that he supposes that I have too great a regard for my Order—a regard a! one time imputed to me almost as a crime—to desire to prr;mote any revolutionary measure. I have supported, and will support, that order, because I think that it is ne cessary to the preservation of the Constitution that it should exist. lam by station, and still more by disposition and habit, a member of the aristocracy. But I support it as an order only because it is a necessary order in the State, because it is a necessary link between the Crown and the people, and because its existence contributes to the good of the community. Whenever the aristocracy ceases to be this, then lam no loner a member of the aristocracy. But while it continues to be this, and while its rights and privileges are conducive to the preservation of the rights and privileges of all, I repeat. that I am ready to stand or ' ' fall with it. It is to support and preserve that order that I have taken from them, by this measure, a power which renders them odious to the people, and restored to them the means of cultivating a good umlerstanding with the people, and of satisfactorily discharging those public trusts for which their privileges were given them. I shall say no more on the subject at present, but I could not sit alto gether silent, under the imputations which the Noble Marquis has been pleased to throw nut against his Majesty's Ministers. As to the petition of the freeholders of Down. I leave it as it is, with the statement which I was in strutted to make respecting it. When the time comes for the regular discussion of the measure of Reform Proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, I shall be prepared to show that it is one which the occasion and the voice of the nation demands, and one which may be adopted with safety and advantage to all classes. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY explained, that Colonel Ford hail at at first opposed the petition, although he had signed it afterwards on its being altered, and that Doctor Macdonnell had no great property in the county. He could have no pretensions to contend in declamation with the Noble Earl, but he must support his own opi nion according to the best of his ability—however unequal he might be to contend with such fearful odds as the Noble Earl. The Marquis of DOWNSHIRE observed, that he ap proved of the principle of the measure, and then made some observations on the petition, which could not bo head at the bar. The Duke of WELLINGTON had no desire to prolong this discussion. He perfectly agre.d with those who thought it irregular and inexpedient to be continually start ing these incidental debates—when they could not have before them all the topics to which it was necessary to at tend, in order to ascertain what were the real opinions Of their Lordships with reference to this measure as a whole, and in detail. It was with great unwillingness, therefore, that he rose to say a few words respecting some of the ob servations made by the Noble Earl. Far be it from him to say that Ministers were desirous to promote the adop tion of any measure which they believed to have a revd- lutionary tendency. But at the same time it was num', fust that the measure introduced by them does make a complete alteration in all the existing interests of the country—that it introduces a complete change of the class of men who may have to conduct his 1114jesty's Councils, and be entrusted with the public con. fidenee in Parliament. It has a most serious effect on all public interests—so very s,rious that he could not re gard it without apprehension. He knew very well that Dli ni•ters did not desire revolution, but he could not but per ceive that the adoption of the measure would introduce an alteration in all public interes's which must be followed by an alteration of men and of system. For what reason, then, was all this done? He saw no rtason whatever for altering the Constitution of Parliament. Parliament had hitherto well served the country, and within these few years had passed many excellent measures. He could stie no reason whatever for the change, except that it was to gratify individuals--a considerable number of individuals certainly—perhaps the majority of individuals, and that was no sufficient reason for such an important chat , ge. When be said this he had no interest in the matter, ex cept that interest which every other man bad to uphold Ve institutions of his country. He had been a servant of hi. Majesty for niiarly—he was sorry to sly—half a cen tury. He had been forty-five years in his Majesty's ser vice, arid during thirty of these years, constituting so eventful a period, he had led his armies —(Hear, hear,)-- and had beep employed on embassies and in his Majesty's Councils, and, from all the experience which he had ac quired, he felt it his duty to say, that he entertained the most serious apprehensions that the adoption of the mea sure would be rollowed by the downfall of the Constitution of this country. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE observed that the Noble Duke himself admitted, that although the measure was, in his opinion, introduced fur no other reason than to please individuals, yet these individuals might be the majority—an admission that a majority of the commu nity was in its favour. But it was not a large majority that approved of it, but almost the whole of the COlll - and this was a strong reason far concluding that it was well calculated to promote the best interests of ad classes. Although he could not agree with the assertion of the Noble Duke (Wellington), that the Ministerial plan of Reform had been introduced for the purpose of pleas ing individuals, because lie thought the m«asure was emi nently calculated to promote the general good, rather than individual interests, yet he quite concurred with the Nobie Duke in thinking that the proposed Reform would please the majority of the individuals, and that was one reason wherefore it pleased him (the Marquis of Clanricarde), and fur which it should'have all his sup port. -4 Hear.) . . _ Lord FARNHAM did not think that the decision of Parliament ought to be governed by opinions of a majo rity of the individuals in the nation, but that the sense of a majority of the people of property and intelligence— (Hear, hear)—ought to influence the sense of Parliament. The majority of the people of every country were the least capable to form just opinions on questions of public government.—(Hear.)—He well knew that the sense of the tnaj , ,rity, numerically taken, in Ireland, would be found to be highly favourable to the measure, inasmuch as Tat majority was unfriendly to the interests of Englan , l. (ifearp)—But he also knew that a majority of the persons of property 4.'nd intelligence in that country were decidedly opposed to the Reform plan. REFORM. The Marquis of BUTE said that he had been re quested by a Noble relation to renew, for Monday pest, a notice of motion which he (Lord Wharncliffe) had for merly given, for a return of papers, - upon which he had intended to found a proposition respecting the Reform Rill introduced by his 111itjesty's Ministers into the Lower House of Parliament.—(Cheers.) The LORD CHANCELLOR would prefer that thp Noble Marquis would fix his friend's motion for Tuesday, rather than for Monday, as it would seriously interfere with the business fixed for• the last-mentioned evening. He added a hope that the motion would come on at the time which should be fixed on, as repeated postponement occatiiorted to tavern! Noble Lords disappointment and in convenience. The Marquis of BUTE did not know of any objection to Tuesday being appointed instead of Monday; but he could say nothing definitively without consulting his Noble Friend. Earl GREY supposed then that the motion might be considered to be fixed for Tuesday, when he hoped it would be brought on, as the Sub-letting Act, which was fixed for consideration on that thy, would be postponed to the next, in order to affurd the Noble Lord opportunity to bring on his motion.—(Hear.) b _ ai tt i r k t i re ? l i t n E f Y wn t i h ur en . f p t r i e , s e e ß nt e t r a m p ß e t i i i t i. ion TfirioetpnetiNziootntilizi been agreed to at a county meeting. The Duk e o f NEWCASTLE could not allow the opi nions of the meeting at which the petition had been agreed to, and which was attended by very few, to be Oren as the sense of the county of Nottingham. E►rl GREY replied that the meeting had been regu larly convened, and that the petition bore the signatures of many of t!'e gentry. The Duke of NEWCASTLE was aware of that, and was very sorry for it.--(Hear, and laughter.)—What. ever might be the opinion of many of the gentry, he was certain that the great body of the yeomanry were deci dedly opposed to the Noble Ewl's plan of R form. Earl GREY wished the Noble Duke's last assertion to be put to the test of a general election.—(Hear, and a laugh.)—He then presented several petitions in favour of the Reform plan. We could not collect the names of the petitions. Lord KING presented five petitions in favour of the Reform Bill, of which one was signed by Mr. Baker, on behalf of a meeting of West Kent, held at Rochester, of which he was Chairman. _ _ Lord SUFFIELD presented a similar petition from the inhabitants of Wells, in Norfolk. The House then adjourned to Ten o'clock on Friday. HO USE OF COMMONS, lITARcu 24. The SexAxr:ft took the Cuair this arternoon precisely at Three o'clock. Mr. HOWARD presented a petition from the county of Wicklow, in which the petitioners, after alluding to the agitation that exists in that county respecting the repeal of the Union, state that they are ready to support his Ma icsty's Ministers in carrying into effect the extension of any law for the suppression of illegal associations in Ireland. Sir JAMES SCARLETT presented a petition from Milton in favour of the plan of Reform. Ile must ob. serve, however, that he could not support the prayer of the petition.—(Hear.) He could not agree with the views of the petitioners in favour of the Bill—(Hear) —but as the measure had the approbation of his constituents (not his) he was ready to resign the trust reposed in him into their hands.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. HUNT highly approved of the determination of the Hon. and Learned Member to resign his trust ints the hands of his constituents. It was no more thaw what every Member should do, when he could not agree with those who returned him to the House.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Hunt) would only now observe that be was happy he had lived to see the day when not a single Member of Parliament was bold enough to get up in his place and state that he was opposed to all Re form_ It was admitted on all hands that some Reform must take place, but be had never found even amongst the humblest classes the slightest desire for a re publican form of Government. Every individual, high or low, would be satisfied with a House of Commons freely chosen by the people. Mr. G. DAWSON was sitting the other evening close by the side of the Hon. Member fur Ps eston, and distinctly heard him declare that he should prefer a Re public to any other form of Government. Mr. HUNT (with great warmth)—l declare most po sitively I never said any such thing. The SPEAKER. called the Hon. Member to order. Mr. DAWSON certainly understood the Hon. Member to say so, and could only imagine that from the extensive plan of Reform proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, he now thought proper to forget his declaration. He could only repeat that he well recollected hearing the Hon. Member snake use of such an assertion.—( Hear.) Mr. HUNT again, and in the most positive manner, denied that he h ever expressed himself more fivour able to a Republic than to the British Constitution, and he appealed to the Hon. Member for Middlesex, whe ther be had ever heard him express himself in favour of a Republic. He was sure the people of England had no wish for revolution ; all they desired was a restitution of their rights, and a cheap form of Govetntnent. In these wishes he cordially agreed with them. Mr. HUME, as he had been appealed to, must say that the charge against the Hon. Member for Preston must have arisen in mistake. He had never heard that Hon. Member express himself in favour of a republican form of Government. THE PRESTON AND WIGAN RAIL-ROAD BILL. Atter some discussion, in which some Members took a part, this Bill was read a third time and passed. Captain MAITLAND presented a petition born Ber wick against the :Ministerial plan of Reform. Sir J. BRYDGES supported the petition. The plan of Reform proposed by Government would change a British House of Commons into a Chamber of Deputies ; a British House of Lords into a Chamber of Peers ; and a British King into a King of the British.—(Hear.) Captain MAITLAND said the petition had been agreed to at a public meeting regularly called, and no amendment was proposed. Lord EDWARD SOMERSET presented a petition from the county of Gloucester in favour of the Reform measure brought in Ly his Majesty's Government. But though his Lordship felt it his duty to present the petition, yet for his own part he could not concur in that measure, which he considered calcu lated to overturn the hest institutions •f the country ; therefore he had not given, nor would• he give; his vote in favour of it. Sir WILLIAM GUISE said that if he had thought the measure a revolutionary measure, he would not have supported it as he had done; or a measure calculated to overtlitow the be-t institutions of the country. He did not mean to say the Bill ought not in a Committee to be materially modified. Mr. CHIP PS hid voted for the second reading of the Bill, but he certainly should not have done no had he not considered that it would undergo considerable alterations in passing through , he Committte. Sir E. SUGDEN considered that the Honourable Member who had spoken last must certainly have given his vote under an entire mistake, becaus the NAle Lord who had introduced the Bill, had declared he would submit to no 'lteration in it. He had said there the Bill was, and told the House it must either accept it or reject it altogether. Mr. DAVIS said the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was wrong in point of fact. The Noble Lord had not said that he would permit no alterations—he had said that he would permit no alterations in the principle of the Bill, but that if the measure was thrown out another should afterwards be introduced, with a view to carry into effect the principle of the present Bill. A considerable discussion followed, in which a number of Members took part 111. my of them had voted in favour of the Bill, though tiny hcped it would he materially modified and altered in passing through the Committee. IRISH REFORM BILL. Mr. STANLEY rose to bring in the Irish Reform Bill, arid in doing so the Hon. Miner observed, the course I am now about to pursue is somewhat unusual in not offering some observations at length on thy reading of the first Bill, yet the House will do me the jus tice to recollect, that I said if leave be given for me to bring in this Bill after what hail passed, I should not enter into the minutiae of this Bill. I shall confine myself to the main objects of the Bill, for I think every gentleman will agree with me that, alter the very long discussions— I may say, after three very long discussions on the general principles of Reform—any observations from me now on those general principles would be mis placed ; I shall therefore go into the principles of the Bill as it affects Ireland only. There is one circumstance to be observed in bringing forward this Bill, that from the first to the concluding paragraph in it there is not one disfranchising sentence.—(Cheers. So far as the Bill goes it is confined only to the extension of the franchise. There is no taking away of franchise, excepting as regard a few non-resident freemen. As respects the county representa tion, it is proposed by this Bill to follow the principle that has been adopted in referetice to English county representations, that is leaving the right of voting in freeholders, and adding to them a most respectable and independent class of people, I mean leaseholders for 21 years to the amount of 501. a year. In this step we have deviated in one point from the practice to be observed in England, inasmuch as we have ex cluded the clause which requires that the leases should not have been renewed within two years previous to the election. I think any gentleman acquainted with a large proportion of the property in Ireland will at once perceive the reason that has induced us to do this, because there is a very large class of persons who hold leases for twenty-one years. renewable every year, and who would otherwise be excluded from exercising their v..te. I allude to that large class of persons who hold land either under Corporations or w►der the Church. We have thought it right in this Bill not to introduce that restrictive clause, therefore the leaseholders to the amount of 50/. a year for twenty-one years, will not be excluded it they should have had their lease renewed within two years of the election taking place. With regard to copyliolders, I believe that there is only one copy hold estate in Ireland, and therefore it was consi dered unnecessary to make any provision as to them. There is one alteration, which is this, that the Clergy shall vote, not as beneficed Clergy, but in right of their freelials, and he registered like any other freeholder— Mr- O'CONNELL—To what amount? Mr. STANLEY-501. Then with regard tohouseholders renting houses to the amount of 101. a year, or occupying a hon%e which, if let to a solvent tenant, would fairly bring 10/. a year, as in England, if their rent and taxes shall have been paid up, they shall be entitled to vote in their boroughs. We have not thought it right to interfere with the freeholders in cities, towns, and boroughs, but to leave all who have now a single vote to continue in full posses sion of that right. We have provided that upon the extinction of 40s. freeholders in towns, their right of voting shall be assimilated to that of householders in towns There will be by this mode three classes of voters in cities and boroughs in Ireland, namely, freeholders of 201, 101., and 401., leaseholders for 21 years of 50/. and house holders paying a rent of 10/. or occupying a house which would let for that sum to a solvent tenant. With regard to that part of the English Bill against which the greatest objections have been urged—l mean the power granted to a Committee of the Privy Coun cil, we have not thought fit to grant to the Privy Council of Ireland the same extensive powers as those granted to a Committee of the English Privy Council, and therefore the powers of the Irish Privy Council will he confined to the right of deciding what has been and what shall be for the future the limits of Irish boroughs. It is proposed that they shall, in the first place, take a list of all at present claiming a right to vote, and that that list shail he subsequently subjected to the inquiry of a barrister of a certain standing at law, of whom eight shall be nominated for the whole of Ireland; and with regard to registration, following the English plan, we propose that every year there shall be a registration of all persons having a right to vote. That part of the business shall be entrusted to assistant barristers. With regard to the duration of the poll, we propose that in towns it shall be k-pt open two days and no more—that in coun ties there shall be fifteen polling places—and that not more than 600 electors be polled at each. In no inconsiderable number of boroughs, although there are no boroughs to be disfranchised, there must be a complete destruction, not of the right of ex isting electors, but ef the exclusiveness of their rights. —(Applause.)—We do not mean to go according to the mathematical ratio of population, but we do not wish unnecessarily to interfere with existing rights, in asmuch as there are none of the towns which do not carry with them sufficient weight and respectability to send Members to this House. We do not think it right to adopt a plan which might be more perfect in theory, but which would interfere with and destroy existing rights. With regard to taking away the exclusive right of the corporations, there cannot be taken any fair ground of ob jection. It will not be imputed to us that keepiug still the seine pefrions who now exercise the right of sending Members to Parliament, we are guilty of following a re volutionary system by extending that franchise which has so long been monopolized by a few, to persons of respectability that did not before possess that right.—(Hear.) Sir, in looking to the list now before me, the first place mentioned is Armagh ; with a population of between eight and nine thousand, the number of voters is only thirteen. In Belfast, with a -population of 37,237, the number of voters is only thirteen. In Carlow, with a population of eight thousand persons, still the same mystical Dum ber of only thirteen voters is to be found. In Dublin, with a population of 185,000, the number of electors is proportion itely small. In Ennis, with a po pulation of 6,500, we have again only 13 voters. In Kilkenny, with 23,000 inhabitants, only 600 voters. In Sligo, with 9,000, the right of voting rests with only 13 ; and in Tralee, with 7,547, we find the same number of thirteen, who are qualified according to the existing system, to elect a Member of Parliament. Sir, I do not think that there is any thing extravagant in die proposition which we now advance, that the favourite number of thirteen should no longer continue to monopolize the elective franchises of such places as Belfast, even if no larger than Armagh.-- But, Sir, while we propose thus not to destroy existing rights, but to extend their rights and privileges of elec tive franchise, there are other places which stand forward so prominently, not only with regard to their population, but their wealth, commerce, and increasing prosperity, that I am persuaded we exceed not the fair limits of moderation, when we propose to give to four of the principal towns that now send Members to Parliament each one addi tional representative. Sir, I propose to give to Belfast, to Limerick, to Waterford, and to the county of the town of Galway, upon this principle, one additional Member each. It is proposed to assimilate the constituency of die Uni versity of Dublin to that of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge, and for that purpose the right of voting for the University of Dublin, which is now enjoyed solely by the Provost, Fellows, and seventy Junior Scholars, it is pro posed by Otis Bill to extend to all who at any time have been Scholars, and have kept their name or placed it on the list within six months ef the time of voting. In doing this, Sir, we cannot be charged with innovation, be• cause, by the original charters of the three Uni• versities, the right of voting for the University of Dublin was confined to the Provost, Fellows, and Scholars during their lives, whilst the right to vote for the repre sentatives of Oxford and Cambridge was extended to all the Masters of Arts, and by the original charter of the Dublin University it was provided that the election should take place according to the usages of the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge; but, besides re verting to the original charter, there is another reason for extending the right of voting to the Members of that Uni versity, and that reason I shall shortly state to the House. Sir, in order to become a Scholar of the University of Dublin it is necessary to puss through a very severe elimination, and no young man who is not of distinguished talents can obtain a scholarship. By ex tending the right of rotting we do away with an anomaly, for according to the present system, a young man of the age of eighteen might obtain a scholarship, and therefore a vote for the University, but at the end of five years that right is lost. Now, Sir, this appears to me deserving of remedy; for I think a young man who ob tained a scholarship at the age of eighteen is more capable at the end of five years, when he is deprived of the right of voting, of exercising a sound judgment as to the fittest person to represent the University, than whilst he bad enjoyed that privilege, because at that age he acts upon his own judgment, uninfluenced by and disengaged from the trammel:, of his tutor, who is generally a Junior Fellow, and which juniors have a great influence in the election. This limitation is not ac cording to the original charter, for by that charter the right of the Scholars to vote for the University terminated only with their lives ; but by a subsequent charter it was provided that the Scholars should, after five years' enjoyment, forfeit the , stipendia which they en joyed as Scholars. By a coarse, and, in my opinion, an un constitutional construction of that clause which took away the stipendia, it was held that the right of voting was also taken away. 1 know that this subject was dis cussed before a Committee of the House of Commons, and that the decision of the Committee was in favour of that construction; but I also know, that some of the highest law authorities in Ireland, and among them I may mention the present Lord Chancellor of Ireland, were of opi nion that taking away the stipendia by the latter charter did not take away the right of voting granted by the original charter, anti for these reasons it is thought fit to restore the right granted by the original charter. Sir, as I said before, it is intended to assimi late, as far as is possible, the state of the Universities of England and Ireland, and when I take into consideration that the Scholars of the University of Dublin were a body of men who had distinguished themselves in their youthful drys, and who had afterwards filled some of the highest institutions in the law, in the church, and in other professions, I think it is not going too far to say that, whilst each of the English Universities is represented by two Members, the Irish Universities should also have the privilege of sending two Members to Parliament. These, Sir, are the only inere Ise Which we mean to make to the repre sentation of Ireland,—namely, four representatives from the large cities, and one from that enlightened body, the University of Dublin. But we propose to make gone t hwrhoiucghhlall shallthe n p o a w r t l s m o g f t i h ea e v ß e il t l o , with t o i n o e n. o r two a large increase in the number of the constituent body. 1 bare excep taing'Gallant Member introduced a Bill this Session, providing that where a man possessed two freeholds, ne ither one nor the other of which was of the value of 101., but which together were equal to that sum, he should have a vote as a 10/. freeholder. As some doubts existed as to the state of the law on this subject, a declaratory clause hal been introduced • into the Bill explaining the law on this point. There was another clause in troduced in the Bill of the Gallant and Honourable Member, which related to giving a cautionary notice by the pondidates to the freeholders on coming to the the poll to tender their votes. That clause was thought likely to give a great deal of unnecessary trouble, and therefore it was not thought right to insert such a clause in the present 8,11. He had then explained, he believed, all the points of the Bill, and he hoped clearly.—(Cheers.) li e should be quite ready, if it appeared necessary, to give an y further explanation ; but, as the principles of the measure had been already explained, he should abstain from offering any further observations, reserving himself to meet any objections to the Bill on the second reading, which he should not propose to take place till after Easter. In the meantime, he should propose ' , hat the Bill should be printed and circulated in Ireland, which would make its provisions known. Colonel TRENCH meant to carry forward his Bill, if the dissolution with which the Parliament had been threatened allowed him. lie hoped that the Bill of the Right Hon. Gentlemen would not pass, and he certainly should press his own measure. Mr. O'CONNELL expressed his great satisfaction with the Bill, and was sure that it would give great pleasure to all Ireland. There were some of the details of the Bill to which perhaps be should not assent, and which he trusted the Right Hon. Gentleman would make no objection to alter in the Committee, if they did not interfere with the principle of the Bill. He was happy to hear that non-re sidents were to be disfranchised. He was happy also to hear that the Corporations were no longer to retuct the Members ; and he wished that the disfranchisement had been extended further, and that the right of electing the Corporation officers had been extended to all the inhabi tants. As he understood the present measure, the forty shilling freeholders, being residents, were not to be deprived of their franchise during their lives.—(Mr. Stanley was understood to answer, that the Hon. and Learned Gentle man was right.)—He was glad of that, and approved of the plan laid down for voting in the counties ; because he thought that there was a prospect of forming a better class of freeholders and of voters. He approved of the sum of 101. being chosen as the point of exclusion ; being of opinion that freeholds under that sum should not entitle the owners to votes. He conceived the proposed altera tion would be advantageous. The Right Hon. Gentleman had described the electors of several towns to consist of thirteen. In fact, there were seventeen boroughs in Ire lanA, the whole constituency of each of which consisted of twelve members and a Sovereign. They, however, were not the real constituency ; for, generally, the whole thirteen were appointed by one man ; and they thought themselves as much hound in honour to vote for the seven t-en persons who appointed them, as they were to abstain from picking pockets. This was the case with the whole seventeen boroughs, except Ennis, which has two Masters, as there the proprietors lay two in a bed. He felt con vinced that Ireland would regard the proposed change as a great good, as it would get rid of that mockery of re presentation, that corruption, and that public sale of seats to the highest bidder, which were a disgrace to the country. Such places as the borough of Tralee or Portarlington were put up and sold as by auction to the highest bidder, who did not, indeed, pay for them in money, as that would be contrary to law, but by a cheque on their banker. He did not un derstand on what principle, however, that five Members were to he given to Scotland, with only a population of 2,1003.000, while Ireland, with 6,800,000, was only to have five additional Members. It was proposed to add five to forty-five fit Scotland, and only to add five to one hundred for Ireland, which, as far as he saw, was very disproportionate. There was nne town which had escaped the Right Hon. Gentleman's notice, owing, be was afraid, to the manner in which it was described in the return. That town was Kilkeany, which was said to contain only 23,000 inhabitants; but if St. C o nici, which formerly returned two Members as well as Kilkenny, though it. formed but one town with it, they being divided only by the river, were added to it, Kilkenny would exceed, in population both Galway and Waterford, and would deserve to have an additional Member. Dublin was, be thought, ill treated by not receiving an additiona 1111 mh , ...r. Ed inbu h _ _ and London had each received two additional Members, and why not Dublin, which, including the suburbs and the vicinage of the Black Rock, contained at least a popula tion of 250,000. They might strike off the north side of the town, and leaving the two members for the south, give an additional Member to the north. He would refer next to the University, and he regretted the alteration made there, as still tending to keep up the distinction between Catholics and Protestants, which it was so desirable to obliterate. Presbyterians and Catholics could not have votes for the Univi rsity, and those exclusions tended to keep Protestant and Catholic gentlemen separate. He did not propose that Roman Catholics should be admitted without proving their qualification; but after proving themselves worthy, they might have the right of voting, which would not make the University less a Protestant University than it now was. The present plan produced apostacy without conviction, and individuals were made hypocrites, if not infidels, for the sake of getting the worldly advantages which Protestantism afforded. They were hypocrites for five years, a nd a ft erwar d s , ad- vertis4-d their shame. As for counties, he wished that the right of voting had been given to him who had a profitable interest in the ground to the value of 501. for freeholders might have large tracts of ground, nominally of much greater value, without its yielding them so much. He bslieved it would have been better to give the vote to those who had leaseholds. The owners of freeholds, as he understood, mieht be non-residents, and the plan he tug. gested would have the effect of encouraging the increase of the middle classes. What was wanted in Ireland was a substantial body of yeomanry, and he had felt some conso lation when he was called upon to sacrifice the 40s. free holders, at reflecting that it would give the landlords a mo tive for making freeholders of 101., giving them a chattel interest. The Hon. Member referred to the case of Con- nemara, to show how easy a landloid could create a body of aominal M. freeholders, where five hundred had been made in one year, and slid, he therefore wished that the men who had a profitable interest of ten pounds in the land should be the voters, rather than those whose free holds were more a burden than a profit to them. These, however, were details for the Committee, and he would wait till the Bill got into the Committee to state them. In England there were seven counties, each of which had less thin 200,000 inhabitants, and four Members each; in Irelmd, however. there were counties containing from 250,000 to 300,000 people, which were not to receive an additional Member. There was one county is England which had not above 72,000, which had two Members, while Down and Tyrone, which had nearly3oo,ooo people, had no Member. He asked if it were fair play that the counties of England should get several additional Members, and the counties of Ireland get none ? He wished to see the franchise extended, and tiie distinction between Catho lics and Protestants done away in all that concerned Cor porations and political tights. If that were done, he had little doubt that this bill would give, as he hoped it would, such general satisfaction, that no man should any longer desire any change, except those who asked for change for the sake of change itself. He did not think mere change desirable ; and if the people had reason to be satisfied, they would ceise to wish for a separation. He should rejoice if that desire was 'superseded by a wish to engage in mutual good offices and show mutual kindness. (Hear.) He hoped that the propositions of the Right Hen. Gentleman would be taken into consideration, and that the Bill, when passed, would contribute to make a perpetual and irreversible union of the two countries. Mr. LEADER was prepared to vete fir the motion, and would go into the Committee on the Bill with a mind unbiassed by any wish but co promote the advantage of both countries. He wished to submit to the Boise some considerations of great political importance, which were worthy of their best attention, before they decided the great question. He wished to show them a way out of their difficulties, and how they might spread represent ation more equally over the country. What he meant to state were facts of great import nice, and nothing hut facts. If they drew a line from Londonderry to Cape Clear, they would find that on the north-west and south west of Ireland there were only five places returning Mein hers to Pariiament, while on the east anti north•east the cities and boeoughs returned twenty-one Members; Sligo, Galway, Ennis, Tralee, and Limerick, each returned a Member on the western side ; while on the east and north east they bad Londonderry, Coleraine, Carrickfergus, Bel fast, Downpatrick, Newry, Dundalk, Drogheda, Dublin city and Dublin University, Wexford, New Ross, Water ford, Dungarvon, Bandon, Youghall, Cork, and Kinsale, returning twenty Members, in opposition to the five on the other side. The House would see, therefore, that one side of the island had a larger number of Members to at tend to its commercial and manufacturing interests, while the other side was comparatively neglected. Could any one say that this was a fair distribution of representation in a country which was almost unknown to those who governed it—which had no tie to connect it with the in stitutions of the monarchy except its representatives—and which bad been subjected to the change of sixteen Secre taries in the course of fifty years.—(Hear.) He con tended, therefore, that an extension of the representation was as necessary in that country as an alteration of the franchise; and that with such a Government, anti under such institutions, representatives must be given to other parts of Ireland, in order that the people might possess organs through whom they may communicate directly with the Legislature. He supported the principle of the Biil. He approved of it in common with all the friends of Ireland ; and he, therefore, would vote for its going to a second reading; but he did hope, when it came into a Committee, that such alteration would be made in its details as would enable him to say that the represen tation of the pal is of Ireland, as well as its fair share in the representation of the empire, were such as the friends of that country could cordially approve; and that it would at length possess a means of making the opinions of its people known in the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Passing over the question of the difference between the representation of the boroughs on one side of the island and the other, he now applied himself to the point ad verted to by the Hun. Member for Waterford; namely, that the counties of Ireland, possessing a larger population than the counties of England, should also obtain addi tional representatives. There was the county of Donegal for instance, which possessed at the present moment a population of 310,337 persons; was it not, he would ask, . . of more importance that a wont/ like that should roe, an additional rep resen t a ti ve , th an th a t a nother Mentu'' should, as the Right Hon. Gentleman announced, be I li stowed on the town of Galway 1 Let the House look the population of some of the counties which had but tO representatives, compared with that of some of the EoF, lish cou n ti es w hi c h are now to have four. I n the Nor" there was Donegal with 310,000, Cavan with 243, 0 1 Monaghan with 218 , 000 , T yrone w i t h 327,000 , A li , Down with 406,762. Th en i n the Sout h- w est, Gnl tn i had 386.000, Mayo 366,000, Limerick 273,000, 'F i ll e ; rary 433,000, and Cork '787,000. Now, without "*Y u T e ifs anything of D own an d the ot h ers, any one o f wh ich I : a popul a ti on t w i ce as large ao.ne of the English countrehtP, how th e N o bl e L or d (R usse ' l ) could have overlooked county of Cork in his estimate, he was at a loss to imagi ne : That county, with its immense population, trade, o ld r ., sources, possessed but two Members, although it hada:T r : 7. . l dent gent r y, a t a ll t i mes numerous enough to f or m five ', d i b e rent sets of G ran d Juries, composed of men who slot entitled to tak e ran k b es id e his Majesty's Ministers. nu tot). could the Nobl e L or d, in his distribution of rePre' e ; tatives, pass over the borough of Kilkenny, the seat at time of the Parliament, and at the present m oment P eat seining. 23,000 inhabitants, and one of the fflo'' o P u leg and rising tow ns o f I re l an d . H e h ope d t h a t the ela the of thes e an d ot h er p l aces would be well cons id ere d in hee . Committee, and th a t E ng l an d wou ld at l ast a ttach t 0 t he self by an ac t o f j ust i ce an d pol i cy, the f ee li n g' °f ell people of Ireland. By giving a voice to the weak a' " hi , as to the str ong i n t h e great C ounc i l of the na tion , t , giving represent a ti ves to support the interests of the as well as the. wealthy and opulent, they would st„ possess the country in goo d earnest, an d bi n ding t° v, land the affe c ti o ns an d i nterests o f the peop l e of Ire.,"-re: di-pelling their doubts, secur i ng the con fi dence-4°";gbo ing by love, not by fear—they might defy all e nemies would vent are to assail them. The Hun. and Les fr r re Gentleman then ref-rred to the immense value of the e ports and imports of Ir e land, whi c h amou nted £ 0113 :0 than twenty-one millions annually, and impressed (41 , House the great advantages which must result a d ad still further encouragement of the manufactures 58 4 ,e i,""L gn culture of Ireland. Th ere were no means b y whic°.;jeg objects could be more s ecure l y e ff ecte d than b y ; t wee- ke ere. the number of representatives, and giving the grea t P oe e t alber prietors and capitali s t s a st i mu l us to res id e on t h e ir O t to at al end cultivate the good will of their tenantry• yry ltke present moment there wer e i n t h e v i c i n i ty o f the P . ; o f Sit C. water, where he resided, and which %VilS, he believed , li r e 1 cent, the most fertile districts in Ireland, full thirty miles lo i vi ca e. there was net to be found a single resident gent` e ,. -- te o tp,"atei The effect of the ravages of absenteeism were b°` p f lrsak rr evident in the poverty and mise r y o f th e peop l e , and d it ere cie ar to this evil, and to the co nsequent i gnorance and ijy ]binned ralisation of the people, that the House would now 4 1 01 , he 1 / 4 0 1d, successful remedy. He had stated f ac t s we ll lO a rue l TiPttuitm There was nothing new in them ; but they were so9 1)° , 1 0 e alete by t-stimony which could not b e con t roverte d, and 1 4 ; tt fl i %t er itiqu for the House to judge of th e i r i mportance. H e reri be h il t dot that the present state of th e representat i on wou ld n° o l, ki t e 13 remedied unless great al terat i ons were ma d e i n the or :ttality and he, therefore, implored them to consider well th e , o s (Il e Was tore of the claims he had put forth on behalf of on' Or, an to 14 (e 4te4ee before . the measnre passed into a law.—(Hear.) Mr. BANKES said he did not rise at that mome t o f e• k to re enter into an examination of the detiils of the Bill , I° n r !, ti gh t foil course be could not be supposed to have obtained lofar-0$ line, by tion enough for that purpose; but he thought there vi gh.) fundamental objection to the principle on which it e o ,. needed, which he thought extremely well worth atten ll o ''stet t The Hon. Member for W a t e rf or d sa id a ll h e w autsd e k t e i r, ed fair play for Ireland. Now b e (M r . B an k es ) would fer th Te tt er of give lair play to England also.—(H ear , 0 t se rt one, doubted very much th e competence o f t h e Parlis ale f ie to „ of the United Kingdom to do what the Bill proposed•tee 11: e ,theri knew very well that it was difficult to say to what ea ti o te l °ad the otrinipcoence of Parliament did not extend, and fur foejell'i any attempt to question that omnipotence was not ° c i t e hi t e re At willingly received by th ose w h o were called on to es er v o j e 14,. Lo the power.—(Hear.)—But still he would ask thou of supported the Bill whether they recollected the ball' l t d ) 4 41 ,tet representation settled by the U n i on b etween E n gler 11 f Scotland, and confirmed by th e U n i on w i t h I re l a nd, n' — o f a century afterwards? Now if it was in the pol t ro e Is te m !livei nations to declare any of the s e A c t s permanen t and ref ! ; it !° he vocable, and if it was in th e p ower o f l anguage to eal o ti b e t i f , or their intentions that their a c t s s h ou ld b e so , he be il e e d bi 1 04 W onn that a reference to the t e r ms o f th e A ct o f U n ion °T o e Is 4 aouhi show that such was the meaning and intention of t y Leare who were parties to thein.—(C r i es of bear, lleaPiese ugh t, If they looked to the word s of th e compacts en tered on those occasions, they would find that nothing, 00 , ti e 'who omitted which could render sol emn , an d bi n di ng , Lot ot iee (go n g alterable, that part of the Act whi c h set tl e d the re l .iee o f proportions of the represent a ti o n o f th e two coo' t y tl l4lt °f pr If, then, they were now to destroy th a t p ro p or tion ilr o es ki t h' ° 1 manner proposed, they would d e f e at and d es t ro y the t e a 0 4 . 4 'just of a compact which wa s i n t en d e d t o b e as bi n ding a l : 0 V 44, 4 ; t4 ei permanent as any treaty whi c h cou ld b e f ram ed bet eel pthc nlisl independent uations.—(Hear.)—When, therefore, he it I tt lejo r na Hon. Member for Kilkenny (M r . L ea d er ) pre ssed on' of t t , e l e at attention the comparative wealth, population, and 010 1 14 1 : 4 1/ ely r merce of the boroughs and coun ti es o f I re l an d, be k e j , tae Bankes) would answer him by say i ng t h a t it invol v d V and question into which Parliament could not enter; °doe tail begged him to direct his att e nti on t o w h a t h a d be ell eeP formerly on settling the balanc e o f rep resen t a tion b e t e t England, Ireland, and Scotland.—(Hear.)—Soo, be e ke: oo sons considered the measur es o f hi s M a j esty ' s presen t Itht Poi vernment to be revolutionary.—(Hear, hear )-- 41 ," e ie• tree of those who entertained that opinion ; but if a' no ld N , A terteineel the least doubt on the subject,. that doubt v i l' es et ; 4 1 ( 1 1 t tle compact td t b i nh e it r ul e ig m el iAotv aict otbthf Union.—(Hear ne i(icotland eall antiit. e t o e a m fr break a t ait O nrid.e)m_wbi c which up was that co ee e tot i et gifts creased, lie would say, let them be decr rf e s a t s i e s7l : ° ; Pul b adanir— d ie i l in de l l ' I.tt. Y .? ( 4 oe tiv f( be a decrease in proportion. If there was to be , e . , 0 Nn g i ll nution at all, let the balance of the representation be; be qt ha the three kingdoms lie preserved. If the scale wa s ere " preserved, Ireland, inatead of having 104 or 10 5 o bi tt O S A', hers, ought, if England was to lose 62 Meinber ,, .. te el 4 1 ' 4 : limited at once to 84 or 85. This would be c"a el lo tt% i f h l' with the principle of the Union, which that 1 -I ° ° ; 9 00 8 Nb e ,. 4 formally sanctioned and adopted ; but he wao one al° to who thought that the House was not now canne te ") ter deal with the question which it raised.—_.(Hear, he ar. h t h Mr. CROMPTON, in answer to the objection a e j to ti e tuft Hon. Member for Dorsetshire (Mr. Baukes), b e geg g e e ts. - u refer him to the terms of the Act of Union itself. d ' 4°l 40th of George tie Third, c. 29, the. Hon. Meinbfr t o 'P k 4 1, 61 1 , A vie V`tho m ,, find that ceetain boroughs and towns of I r e kp l ,b a :po n t:et e 9:edocois or o; 11.. 5 4t0440 % le lies continue to send Members to Parliament in the l'f f ,10° Its % lions there mentioned, not for ever, but until the th e el _I , Parliament might otherwise provide—(Hear, heerro t eea ,e t h boroughs which were disfranchised being alto wed ob.' 'l(O, e N thousand pounds each as a compensation for the JO ci byth e r e right. The very boroughs mentioned in the debate, oj erl pti e h fi H f o te n e . n A t l: o m us b a e n r d fo p r o \ u V ;I m . t i e s r , fo o r r d, rtahtahterof the B Kennh't Cho rt . Il ktti nt turned the Members, claimed it, but the claim w as Th e ' ll lowed, and the money applied to other pur Hon. Member called the Bill revolutionary, Wa tended that the whole plan was founded both in tl in equity.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) T ; Ott sure was called for by the unanimous voice of the le el N e, e r la —(Hear, hear.) It was supported by every Pr i od °I ; al sound legislation, and justifiable on every moral ebo aa e tf cred feeling. Th e t i me was come w h en s uch a , o io V I. no g g could not ba d e l a y e d ; an d i t was t h e merit of P tom its that it did not re-co ns t ruc t b ut restore time Corot itu • n e" \,tsmi ° a manner which would place an effectual bar to t he t i e on' n il o of all who desired more violent alterations. eft,. b ., es t ' " Bill which th p i o it ss t e l s ie sio l o i d fi j i r t : pounds leas e e pe l t i to i s i n h , l ),f i ti o ni a tis p ie e rf r sr t ta y omo w (e i si u i.i l i d u prove injuriotoe *..° if that a(fesaillter person s l icoent.olinn, seemed tO sa p the V e fr o as be worth fifty shillings. The Hon. Member fi c re ela t a d, L‘l tw ee subject matt t e h r i , s on however, have said this, if he had read the very te ei of the Bill, for lie would find it there exPre se i p otlO u i t k, ea that the leasehold must he bona itle worth fifty n isei ;, and that the value of the leasehold was to be det er ' a 11, 10 the ist e s r am a e pp m o a in n t n e e d r a f s or in ti E la r t igl p a u n r d p7s l e ,.y a reference. t of if e tn7 l e ieal manner the right m ( I: f t o w h h ' t ir a ‘ i ih c g i t h e ! ' t a il ; The for Kilkenny intimated an opinion that the t° .esee tegl \ fil e °L t i l4 way was n o t so we ll ent i t l e d to an a ddi t ional rep i , did ' 0 11„. k e, e l Ye iq t i as some oth er pl ices ; b ut t h e Hon. Me mbe r of b perhaps, r eco ll ect , th at a l t h oug h t h e t t Y the way itself was only 27,000, the p o pulat l i ir o d o t e e l:: : e : r f i ; l : which were now to particip ite in the right at h a d b . 7 4, amounted to full 40,000 persona ; and so grey `rt 137, the increase of its trade, that the Customs 'hutted to D , „; fi le ve o, y o e o a o rs L ago T w he ere H o o n n ly 30,0001., now i n r ow alt ua red °f i' of k l ftei t ha av o no t other voting ghoabftjoelitt•t theohnost ltndoi be extended University Bill, o f D c u o tb n ol t ia e nl n l d w e vrht : o.rai degree however, recollect, Master ha t Arts. the The rg :lAd thanjibe e et a 7 v li be i t ; :r t s t e: ili e e:: ( j ti Y1 : 11 0 :1 1 : 0 : charter. Tbesej charters were very different ford: degree of Master of Arts, The Hon. M'l l ls jnni Ox ford, for the ti3O t : di( versities of Oxford and Cambridge. Iloe ind ost , I tIL4 °I I stance, the right to as placed in the Cha n " Fr av i , of . Masters. In Trinity Colle the right wo ma t t tort et 0444 Fellows, and Scholars. Nov,w one of the gre at r o tito tar t if e t ei the Reform Bills was to preserve all existing C l OO O It as far as it was possible to preserve them'