The Sun. — London, England, 1831-10-06 00:00:00

. ' , 4C ; ', :' l,': i i ; = • 3 43 ,A l ernacrilitirtng tha , t aielurt so constituted 'as to titbits Its Judges ' but, on the eenitaty, it *as foam' by the Bill that a turn of tails to cendact themselYes ought to be atnlished ? The mode fourteen thousand .pounds a year was to be grahted them on of their mennent wait - Liable to be, productive of the worst conse- their retirement-,(Hear, hear..) This was not to be confined ,to qurnees to the interests of the public and the suitors, for it was the seiner Commissioners, but, to his great surprise, was to be their interest• to prejudice 315 d delay the matters brought before extended to all of them. He 'cadet not but repeat that; looking them, emoluments being derived from the number of meetings at this as altogether an unnecessary measure, it Was ptolp,er to and the leegthof tinee. taken up in the hearing of the cashes. it took to its o p erat i on. The Hoh. and Learned Gentleman was impossible - Air them to entertain a lust opinion Which was pro c eeded to draW the attention of the House to the clause not opposed by their own i n di v id ua l i n t e rests ; and the whole empowering the Chancellor to apPoint the new offiCees; system had its support in prejudicing the rause of the suitor and and their salaries to commence on the passing of the Bill, cleating delay. The Learned Gentleman then proceeded to de- although they had no duties td perform until the 11th of Ja scribe the inconveni ence s a nd expense a tt e nding the prosecutionrps , m' heit.—(l-lear,_ ry hear.) He thought there were the ptesent of the only mode of appe a l f rom t h e d e cisions , of this inefficient toehissioners the Masters in Chance, the Vice-Chancellor, and incompetent tribun a l—th e a ppe a l to the C m Court of Chancery, and th e fifteen Judges, to hear the few issues which were tried On appeal to this Court, after the enormous eXpenses and rhinous in a }'eat, and these he Considered quite sufficient to alisstet delays attending it, a ffi davits without huinbet (and Rounded in erely purpoSe for, the trd'isacting efficiently all bluittete relating the most profli ga t e per j ury ), an d fees to Counsel, it, frequently to bankr u pt s . Alter. going atsome length into the. disadvantage Impressed that the Lord Chancellor was obliged, to make issues of attending the appointment of pntaslonet assignees, the lime appeats from this court, o r, after all, parties Were obliged and ftearnecl Gentleman eephssed his decided opinion that int to• seek redress, at last, before a Jury. It was Well known Weirs reliting.te banttlllptcy ought not tobe eePareterefrOm the that for the last century the administration of banlerpptey Great Seal. If they were to h ave a new C o lli s , it wou ld be lie had been a subject of complaint in this countrYassMea t i cessary to hive a new code oe t h at AS regarded debtors and ere. In - the year 1783 Sir James Portage Wrote a Pamphlet &tots.. He arse 'condemn,Hl that part of the Bill whit h sil t. in which he exposed the then grievanees of this systenr, and e t .. sized the , eppropriatieh of unclaimed itividends...tvaidi he con. commended a permanent Court of RevieVe in bankruptcY. I n sldered ought to be held as sa.credsh the fteis of the suitors iii the year 1811 several petitiOns honk Ireland were plesented to the Ceti - of Chancery. Iq,sooStltslon, he trusted a general this House, complaining 0f the administration tif bankruiStay, Measure would lie brenesht hetore the ,House, similar to Whet and calling for a revision of that system.. In, that yery")year he had intended wits% in o ffi ce to have brought Orwell, ,or abo. Mr. Grattan brought in a bill upon the subj ec t , but !hi some lishing the meshy gross abuses existing ip the Court of Chancery. reason, he did not know what, the Dill wa s net Versevered in ; • Mn Strjeant WILDE considered Itat the lion. and Learned but that very Bill contained a prevision let th e creation of i 1k &demon appeared to kiln ti consider the principal evils in the permanent Court of Review. Although his Hon. and Leetfied Court of Chauesty tat sine from the want of despatch in the Friend had said that there had been, no public opinieo . e`kPressed business of the s..ourt.—(Hear.) The Hon. and Learned Gentle. in favour of this Hill, ebuM telly man deny that the semen- man het but shown that the proposed Court wth ittpottapetelit to silences of the public were numerous anfl ti ad against the no.. =D i eu the evils proposed. This intosige, Nall he new, for to torious ineffielency, the great delay, Clint enormous expense a his (Serjeant Wilde's) own leemetedee, fot the last 25 to 30 years, the present Merle bf administettlig the affairs of ba nkruptcy? the ine ffi ciency of the . 1.11%141 laws had been unive sally corn- Ccuel his NM, and Learned Va - iend forget the Petion which Plained of.—(flear.) The present Bill only combined those im_ had been presented to the tither House of Partiathent, from the proversets Widen had been suggested by Committees appointed merehants, bankers, and citizens of Londe% against the present to in s , into the subject. The Learned Gentleman preeeetted systtn by the Lord Chancellor ? It vt as that petition, in cow. *A) 'read an extract from a pamphlet, by M. 13' try (ohe neetion with other circumstances, Which gave rise to the terettlit of the Commissioners of Bankrupt), in tell hh :Alen - riled the 'plan. No roan could deny that for centuries the pubtf& aye had existing system, and MI Merest that a,Worays Spec es of tribunal been directed to the bad effects of the present sysKSi. He should could not be eetattitut . 3 tie Isearlied Member then drew a say that this was a subjeet which every gepttethan in that House lively . istetlite Of 'ffkisbll a tef the old machinery, and- its irre_ could understand, it they only gave it the slightest consideration, ear. weileings.. Hh etliseluded by saying that it was all one sys as well as any lawyer in theland. The Present plan would get vet 3 al ll Pf s prefrartlaii and expense. He mentioned two casespegu of all the great grievances Whith tkisted under the old eYstenr. ,% 1. 1 int't.rative of his assertions. In one, after rethrenee to the ss-...-: ~ It was said that the plan WOW proposed would rentitt .the'Ne: I - Ommissionera, appeals to Vice Chaneellee still Lord Chan ' .• . --- be the estsee.•'-ruptey nsultittldinous. Be dented that tas a s *data seller, issues, &c., the ant Of ft)ttictitty was decided, a ft er _ soon solve the dise-shb-tlivision Court named in the bill would _five years, with five tlfousarid Itainills dotts. In another, after to impede his course, ancettsise „,, ,,,sinele"Cotlinfitt tie& might find .. verity-five meetings of ('OMinitslohers, an appeal to the Vice Judges), by its efficiency, woutd, in 'pi l lt , e_Cconsisting of four haurellet, .eri'd *an ktslte, a similar conclusion was come tensity of appeals to the Great 'Seal. The very objecreszt-th.enft • 3 7 , of n hi c h the %last remarkable feature was, costs to the was to prevent the natilltcticrreons appeals which, under .the lire- •tvicAftit of fillnineds for affidavits—hundreds for briefs. The went system, were Instittited before the Lord Chattedltdr:artet 'de they'vrara--were altogether incompetent; and fat hothinr would obviate not Only the great delay now a tte n da nt on them, eceptions o f one or t*rerea.than their timidity, so that with th but also the enornYeels expenses now rneul'red. .11e Y!Snsidered aware that none of them WoUld - etb - tilistS, the seticitoks Were we: that by the new system,a difficult Mt nsiklat tit settled in a cernment, and due Mitt-Mitt , . In Piet, fad - talth_filenness, de week, which tinder the present ityttega_vieuldteke months b e f ore the con fi denee of the public; of tile legal profession, and at it could he heard. Mr. Cooke and a Mr. Leeke, a practising at. People preferred suffering the evils Which they should have re tomey, had long since said that entethird part of the time of the welled, millet thin have recourse to their protection ; for, ti. Court Of Chancery ens takewhp in bankruptcy, which was hot general; they found that the expense by which that alone could properly Chanel; husiness. Mr. Basil M on t agu, in huts eVidence be obtained, Was in most c ases equa l ,te the amount of. .the pro h.s4 said, upon his oath, th a t th e present Ceitrt Of Commis_ pert[ litigated. Looking at thi s malts question of expense, the Jners was the Wbrst constituted Court in the 'country. new Bill would make a change of fast importance. As an instance The Hon. and Learned Member then entered into a most in point, under the 9ld *stem, a meeting of Commissioners cost minute detail, in order to sh o w that the :proposed plan 10/. at theleasf.zailider the new, it would be attainable fo r one would he both expeditious and *Cheap: lie ellohld say that pound. , Ut.lefel the new Bill also there would be no end to these the present Lord Chancellor had gained gotden Opinions from all rehritAly frequented meetings—the Commissioners would be sides, from the modein which he administered the affairs of the intelligent, active, and what was most important, responsible Court of Chancery, and for the successful deipatch with tVhiili men—their decisions would be subject to a glirek and satisfactory he had performed the laborious duties of his high °flit* It was review, and issues from them . Weald be speedily settled. The said that this Bill would give a more extended tiettiniage to the Hon. and Learned Serjeant said he could not deal-with the good Lord Chancellor, He denied that it would do to. By this Bill. intentions of , his Hon. and Learned Friend (Sir E. Sugden), the Lord Chancellor Would not h ave the pow er t o use undue pa.. WhOilditOO th , hatt had an excellent measure toi ntroduce, when tronage; he could not do so with o ut bringin g down ripen him the 0 inietry to which he belonged was about to retire ; a con- the opprobrium of the nation. He was sure there would be no duct so Unlike that with which he was now so little satisfied, and jobbing, irregular, or sinister appointments, made under thisßill. which characterised the present Administration in bringing for- Such was not the case with the Court of Commissititlets—there ward their projects of amelioration before they had been three an appointment mhght be winked at. Mt. Montagu had said months in office. In reference to the expenses.to the public, for that he had seen a list of 100 applications Made to the present the support of the two systems—the incorrigible disingenuous_ Lord Chancellor, when he had not been %Mins in office, for the ness of the opponents or the new Bill Was *A remarkable. They situation of a Coramissionership. hi that list there wer e th e incessantly repeated that the new machinery would co s t th e p u b. names of Peers, who were applying for their friends ; but that lie 30,000/. but never added that the old on e h a d cos t 70,000 e, could not be the case under the flees system. No Peer or Baron and that a real giving of 40,000/. would accrue to the public. It could have any influence hi the obtaining of a Judgeship. After was prepoSed also, and also much a subject of cavil, that the , some fevi more observations the Hon. and Learned Member sat Lori Chancellor's salary, fixed at 12,000/., should be p a id ou t o f down, saying that, for th e reasons he had stated, he should g i ve what was called the deadfund. The Learne-t and Hon. Members the'ltill his hearty, and decided su pp or t . - . on the other side of the House had alluded to this hind in a so- Sir EDWARD SUGDEN had hoped that his Hon. and lean style, as if it were something too sacred to be touched. It Learned Friend would have abstained from introducing the belonged to suitors !---it belonged to the public! What w as th e Lord Chancellor p ersona lt y i nto this debate, 'particularly when simple fact ? That a century ago, it had been found that there the subject of it was of a general nature, and affecting Lord were hundreds of thousands lying unclaimed in the hands of the Chancellors generally; he thought that his Hon. Friend would Accountant-General; these sums had been invested, and had been have taken a more fitting occasion to introduce the merits of the increased by interest upon interest. They now producee an un presret's Lord Chancellor to the notice of the House, The. few claimed income of 10,0001., and froin that the salary alluded to obsertations which he should make with reference to that Noble and other expenses of the Chancery were to be borne. In con and Learned Lord were only created by the interference of his elusion, the Learned Member said that the old system had been Hon. Friend ; and, in v.-hat he Ind Say, he Meant in no manne r an intolerable incubus on the country, towards the overthrowing •to be understood as reflecting on the Noble and Ltained Lord, of which he was most happy to lend his assistance. or by any moans to dispar a ge hi m . No mail had admired and . Mr. JOHN SMITH rose to support the Bill, the object o f did admire, more than him, the l earn ing, t h e talents, and the which was to cues , into effect measures which he had urged highly-gifted eloquence of the Lord Chancell or ; but he must upon the House many years ago, but without effect. It was in say, considering the length of time which the Noble and Learned some measure - by his humble means that the Committee which Lord had sat in the Court of Chancery, anti considering the had been referred to was appointed by the House in 1818. Th e many and highly important and difficult question s o f law which evidence given before that Committee convinced the House and were frequently recurring, he did net' think that, sitting the public, that the bankrupt laws as they stood were a source so long in the Court as he had, and listening so long to of villany, frand, and perjury, of the grossest and most odious the arguments of Counsel, he could haVe given that delibera- kind. It was clearly made out in evidence that there were men tion to them which their due investigation imperatively re- plying, almost openly, a daily trade at the doors of the Court o f quired. He had not i nten d ed to have said a word Commissioners, and that they were ready to swear for small sums with reference to the Noble Lord, but his Honourable and to any debts that might be required ; the bills of exchange drawn Learned Friend had forced non him fur he had taken occasion for the purpose were put into the hands of these persons to sup_ to praise the Noble and Learned LOrd foe that which he (Sir port the proofs they made upon bankrupts' estates ; and that thus E. S.) thought re qu i re d greater considerationas to whether it did the certificates of fraudulent bankrupts were obtained in spite of more evil than good. If the Neble Lord would take his advice their real creditors.. The. opinions of some of the most eminent he should advise him not to sit to long, but to give more time to men in the city of London confirmed that which he had formed, quite deliberation, and its making himself matter Of the prac. a:nd convinced him that nothing was more injurious to the tics bf that Court, with 'which he was necessarily unacquainted, fair tradesman than the facility which the bankrupt laws af inasmuch as he had practised in a Court tdt 4 her dissimilar.— ibrded to fraud, while the delay and expense which accompa. His Hon. and learned Friend had Enid that the administration nied them amounted in many cases to a total denial of justice. of -bankruptcy Could not be worse than it Was at present, and he He knew many instances in which commercial men often were went into great details to make Out that case. He would ask, obliged to submit to great losses, as alms evil than applying to was there any man w h o wou ld dehy that thepresent administra. the Equity Courts. He had known Lord Eldon reserve his opi tion of bankruptcy was not bed V—(Hear, hear, hear.) Was there mien for 16 years, to the ruin of suitors, though the point at issue any man who could deny that it required change and corree- was such as the new Court would settle in a few days. The evils , tion ?—(Hear.) fiOrnr, uf the Hon. Gentlemen who suppo rted new to he rem e di e d h e p o i n t e d out 30 years ago. On one occa- this Bin seemed to take all th e cre di t ' o r t h e ineasure to sion a rich man refused to pay to his banking-house more than ' themselves; they had no right to that inetit. The late 4,0(X)/. on his bond of 4,5001. He had consulted his legal advi s e r , -Administration had determined u p on th . i mprovement Mr. 'Kay, the solicitor of the bank, who had told him that be and correction of the Court of Chanese'y ; and one of the could undoubtedly recover his money in a Chancery suit," but," most import a nt b ra nche s o f t hat - improvement was the added Mr. Kay, ' mind what I tell you, my bill will exceed the reforming of the administration of bankruptcy. If the 300 e" Such were the Courts of Equity. It often happened that late Administration had tOntinued to exist, the adminis- a man who stopped payment would appear, on his books being tuition of bankruptcy Wohld have been reformed and rectified inspected by his creditors, to be - able to pay 18s. in the pound as Bills were in prepar a ti on f or that puse. It Was said that' but it was almost certain that if instead of a compositi on under the present sy s t em, t h e Lord Chance rpo llor might appoint a by the creditors (which it was very difficult to effect with 'young man of one year's standing at the bat a Commissioner of the consent of all the creditors) the man was driven into Bankrupts; but if h e did so, he (Sit E. 8.) should say it would the Gazelle, his estate produced only a dividend of 2s. in be a most scand a l ous thing for any Chancellor to do. An ob- the pound. The new Court, which had been denounced by jection was raised to thepresent Commissioners being practising the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Sir E. Sugden), whose abi barristers at the same time • but were not Recorders generally lity and confident manner were calculated to make an impres pmetiaing barristers ? He'did not think there was much, if any sion on persons mot as well acquainted as he (Mr. Smith) was thing, in that objection. With regard to. filing. numerous at& with this subject in all its bearings, was a feature in the Bill of davits upon immaterial or collateral matters, in trying a question which he very much approved. The official assignees, too, of of • bankruptcy, •no man could condemn that abuse more which the same Hon. and Learned Gentleman disapproved, than he did. It was true that there were too many Corn- would, he (Mr. Smith) did not doubt, be the chief means of inissioners for the business they had to do; but was saving the estates of bankrupts and making them productive. that a reason that this beg/ Court was necessary ? There He had had so much experience of the evils occasioned by assig. were to be 16 C'ellitnissioners under this new • Bill— nees, themselves in - bad circumstances, getting the bankrupt's at present there were 70 Commissioners. The new Corn- estates into their hands and absconding or failing, that he was missioners Would saddle the country to the extent of glad to see the security of a responsible officer interposed for the 14,0001. a year, and this "too, f o r the pu r p ose of appointing protection of the creditors. H e h a il e d th e measure as a proof • another set of persons no titter or more competent than those of the earnestness and ability of the Illustrious Nobleman at the who at present performed the duties. • In the present lists, which head of the law in this country, in purifying the judicial insti !vete composed of seventy Commissioners, there were to be tuitions ; and he thought a better beginning could not have been found sixteen men as rompetent as any men that could be made than with the Bankrupt Laws, which were the worst in brought forward, if not more so : _but by the new system the Europe, and a dtsgrace to the nation. country would have to pay 14,0001. a year to get, by some an. Mr. KNIGHT protested against the- Bill, which regarded mat eident, some few persons who might be capable for the duty tens of such vital importance, should be pressed forward at that of the office. The present Administration had come in upon time of the night. a declaration of. economy; but this did not show them to be After a few words from the CHANCELLOR of the EL sincere in that respect. It might be requisite to reduce the CHEQUER, the Bill was read a second time, and committed; present lists, but why not take from them these lists who were and it was agreed, after some conversation, that the Committee truly competent, and give them those appointments ? He should enter on its proceedings on Friday next. would be bound to say the business would be as well done VESTRIES BILL by sixteen of them as by ally Other set of men whatever. Sir J. C. HOBHOUSE moved the third reading of the Vestries Ile - thought that some of the Commissioners ought to be Bill, without observation, the House being, he said, in full practising barristers, otherwise they would degenerate in the possession of its merits already. knowledge of their professions, as being confined to the Mr. TREVOR protested against a measure of this importance Bankruptcy Court a l one. T hey could not be aware of the being put to a division at so late an hour, when it was impossible new decisions daily occurring in their profession. There were to give it that consideration it required. many good things to be given away •by this. Bill, and he Mr..Peortmeoe, Mr. CAMPBELL, and Mr. SPRING RICE spoke could not but draw the attention of the House to some of in favour of the motion ; Mr. l'rotheroe suggesting the expedi them. It reminded him of the old saying, when a father ency of passing this Lill without any delay which there appeared asked his son .what trade he should like the best ? The reasons for believing would lead to determination of parties else boy answered th a t o f a S ecretary ; and certainly ' he (Sir E. where to redress their grievances, without waiting f or th e i n t er- Sugden) should p re f er to b e a Secretary; but then there was the ference of that House. So much had been said alr ea dy on th e provisional assigneeship, whi c h, f r o m amount o f emolument, sutject, and the necessity of the measure was so a pp aren t, th at and little or nothing, to do, lie should Certainly say that, on his any further opposition to its progress was most vexatious. - K,NIGHT, and one or two other Mem. retirement from the bar, h e s hould have no o bj ect i on t o accep t Sir ROBERT INGLIS, Mr, it himself. He - considered there was never any thing so much hers advocated a postponement of the motion. - uncalled for as the present Bill. Why was not the subject re- Mr. G. DAWSON protested against the disposition which was (erred to able men, and those of long experience in the profes. shown in what had fallen from an Hon. Member, and been sion ?—the twelve Masters in Chancery, for instance, who, i t echoed by others on th a t s id e o f th e H ouse , t o act w i t h a degree seat generally admitted, were receiving large salaries, and had of subserviency to the dictation of idle' clamours out of doors, littte to do. It had been one of the measures contemplated by which was highly derogatory to th a t H ouse, an d o f a ten d ency the last Administratio n t o i ncrease the duties of these gentlemen subversive of that power and dignity it ought to maintain. whilst they continued to receive the large salaries they do. But Whatever might be his opinion with regard to the Bill, and it 'why remove the bankrupt business from th e Vi ce-Chancellor ? was not unfavourable/ to it, he felt it his duty to resist the passing All the petitions in cases of bankruptcy had b een di sposed of b y of the motion no w , suppo rted as it was by such an argument. him in a comparatively very short space of time, and the num. Mr. PROTHEROE explained ; and after some further obser ben of appeals was extremely limited.- It was a fact that the vations the Howie divided; when there appeared— whole business in bankruptcy cases had been disposed of by the For the original motion 3B Vice-Chancellor in thirty-five days, and there remained not a For its postponement 8 single petition to be heard, It was from this cause, the very - Majority in favour of the motion --30 limited business of the Court, that he (Sir Edward Sugden) The other orders of the day were then disposed of, • a nd th e had ceased to practise in that Court. The Hon. Gentleman House adjourned at a Quarter to Two o'clock. on the opposite side of the House had the best opportunity of judging whether what he • was stating was true or not. He could not refrain from doing an act of justice to the Lord Chancellor who filled that office at the time of creating the Vice- Chancellorship. Lord Eldon had, like the preceding Lord Chan cellors, the hearing of bankrupt petitions, and was in the receipt of the established fees. On the creation of the new office, and transfer of that business ' in consequence, to the Vice-Chancellor, the Noble and Learned Lord voluntarily relinquished the amount of 2,5001. a year towards the salary of the Vice-Cbancellor. This money was paid in consideration that this branch of the business was taken off the Lord Chancellor's hands, and it had been so. The causes were disposed of; there were no arrears of business ; and the few appeals had been despatched by the Lord Chancellor, because he had devoted a few holydays to this heavy business. But- what was proposed by the Bill ? - The present Chancellor said " No ; I will not pay the 2,5001., I will do the business my. self, and retain the money as part of my fees." The Noble Lord opposite (the Chancellor of the. Exchequer) might shake his head, but he would find what he said was true. It would be found, he believed, that.the Lord Chancellor, since his appoint. went, had sat more than eight or nine days on bankrupt peti tions. He would again ask why take this department of business from the Vice. Chancellor ? It could not be on the ground of the time which his Honour t oo k- to -di spose of the business before him, nor still more could it be on the ground of want of ability to the task. No, it was upon . neither of these' grounds, but because they were to have a hew Court. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman proceeded to detail at consider. able length the fees and emoluments attaching to the office of Lord Chancellor, including the salary of Speaker of the House of Lords, and condemned the alteration proposed by the Bill, which increased very considerably the salary of the Lord Chancellor, without at all adding to its public duties. From this statement he had shown the Lord Chancellor would be deriving a net income of 18,000/. after divesting himself of duties which had been performed by former individuals filling the same office. Ile considered this to be a very strong point of objection, and conceived nothing could justify it. He certainly condemned, and had purp osed b ringing forward a motion for abolishing those re versionary sinecure places which had been-in the gift of the Lord Chancellor, and were now filled by Lord Thurlow and Mr. Scott. He considered it would be much better that those places should be' abolished, and a suitable retiring pension granted. He thought that 6,000/. a-year would not be too much to support the proper dignity of a Peer. He also must condemn the policy of reducing the salary letherrd-aChanneellor of Ireland to 3,000/. g to the income of Lord per annum, wh il s t li t could see any necessity for the Brougham. If e (Sir E Y . Sugd e en) d c di present Bill, he would Oa object to a few thousands a-year, or to Bill vet • Y evidently went to add, that if it did • the extension of patronage which this create • and he would a......, Chancellor an extent of a put in the hands of the present Chance any of his Lordship's predecessor s - - tronage never possessed by ---, a fact that the present ChaT in office.--(Hear, hear.) It l een Commissioners of Bank cellor, had appointed, within the short space of time he h ad in office, no less than five or six new told them it was an rupt.—(Hear, hear.) When Lord Lyndhtirst had appointed per sons to the same situation, his Lordship d that, therefore, office which would be speedily abolished, they were not to expect to receive a compens a tion . But he un derstood Lord Brougham had done no such thing— e f I GREAT MEETING AT BIRMINGHAM. (From a Correspondent of the Times.) BIRMINGHAM, OCT. 3. I got into Birmingham on Friday, and found the principal and most influential inhabitants of the town so deeply interested— not to say excited—by preparations for a meeting of the gentry, bankers, and traders of the town, convened at the Royal Hotel, to petition the House of Lords to pass the Reform Bill, that I found my business object could not be effected, and went to wit ness the proceedings. The great room of the Hotel was filled with respectable towns-people, and the proceedings were con ducted by the High and Low Bailiffs. TB he former was in the chair, and the latter proposed the first resolution. After reading the resolutions seriatim, each was separately proposed and spoken to, and the question put upon each by the High Bailifl; " Aye," or " No." Every 'voice in the room shbuted " Aye;" not one said, " No." All were united, and so impressive was each "Aye," that I shall never forget the roof-rending sound.. For details I refer to the Birmingham Journal of Saturday. But a still more important meeting was held to-day; the most impor tant meetingan its consequences, either for go' d or evil, that any man now living in this country. ever witnessed, or that ever assembled since the revolution of 1. lt was a general meet ing of the town and neighbourhood of Birmingham, called by order of the Council of the Birmingham Political Union. The workshops and manufactories closed this morning at ten o'clock, and by eleven o'clock the greater part of the manufacturing and trading population of the town poured forth into the open space at the foot of Newhall-hill. About half an hour afterwards the Political Union went in procession with the Council- of the Union, and Thomas Attwood, Esq., at tended by other gentlemen, at their head, and preceded by the musical band of the Union in uniform. I had previously obtained a situation which commanded a full view of the ground, in which boarded hustings were erected for the speakers, and waggons drawn up for the Council; between this spot and the high embankment of a road, forming a kind of semi-amphithe atre, was an open spot of eight er ten acres, in which the multi tude assembled. The Union arrived with banners flying and music, the hustings and waggons were immediately occupied, and Mr. Attwood voted to the chair by acclamation. That gentle man then exhorted the meeting to maintain firmness and order, and announced that he was informed they might expect to be joined by different Political Unions from Staffordshire. These bodies came in with music and banners, and on the suggestion of Mr. Attwood were received with cheers. I shall not attempt to report any thing that was adddressed to the greatest mass of human beings I ever saw congregated, or that I have read or heard of having beenbrought together since the accession to power of the never-to-be-forgotten Mr. Pitt. I took great pains to observe and calculate, at different times and from tiTerent. points, the numbe r o f p eop l e: i n t hi s I was iassisted by a cool-judging military gentleman with me, and we concurred in estimating it to 1 • 100,000 persons; from 20,000 to 25,000 of 'e a meeting of from Staftbrdsre. The resolutions, the tpehetsietiocna,meanidn passed with tremendous acelama other propositions, were (and what a resolution!) lions. There was a resolution if the Hoti,e of LOrds did hot pass the Bill, not to pay the takes. This was Carried unanimously by a show of hands with vociferated shohts. _°On the contrary," not a hand was held up. Upon the reading of the petition; which concluded with " your petitioners will ever .pray," a voice in the crowd proposed., as an amendment, that "your petitidners will ever tight." This amendment wits receiVed with a laugh, and ndt put—l believe it was not heard nix% the hustings. Upon the Chair being taken by Mr. Attwpoi, it. was announced by a rocket, and.the bells of churcheS rang peals. ; RoeketS announced the pasting of the petition, and the bells Pealed Again, and upon a stnal the bands played " God save the King;" and the meeting sang a Verse in chorus, keeping time wonderfully. There was not a iiiolieem'an bF anY inilltarY to interfere, and nothing I.)itt ptir. tentnus harmony prevailed.. Could the I;ords set and hear what I have seen and heard during the last four hours;.the Bill would pass their House wit, an immense majoHty. The enthusiasm for the King ass etcestire." SPIRIT OF THt PUBLIC JOURNALS. , . The disenssions in the Wise of fords last night are interest. big; even 4i:a degree of pain. The first thing we shall notice is the,speecn,of the,Lord Chaneellor in reply to those who would charge tilt,, ftiry of Mr. P. Haynes's address to the Birmingham Meeting upon that whole assembly as indicating the principles and intentions of the vast body. Nothing happier ,in oratory, of more convincing in reasoning, was h ever deidged o spOkenaldi his Lordship's reference to a slieee at ll made in the House of Peers on the pXeced,lng evenlnit. We entreat the public to turn to the Parliamentary report ; we have not room to insert the passage twice. But now with respect to the meeting itself. It is a very serious affair! We have known nothing of late years viewed with so intense an apprehension. Let not the aristocracy imagine that we are their enemies because we warn them of danger.= What have we in common with the bons df rapine and plunder, if there be such.? We suppose It Will be allowed that we have some cdgeatinti. We have also some stake in the country. We can be no friends to disorder and misrule. Our only desire is, therefore, and must be, to state facts. Let the aristocracy understand what that Birmingham meeting is,—and there are others of a similar character in contemplation,—and having thoroughly understood it, if they think that it is nothing,..if they are of opinion that its petition is Lb be treated With indifference,—all that we can say it; that we do not participate in the opinion of the aristocracy, so far as it is concentrated in the House of Peers. But let it not be said that we are the friends of commotion, be cause we say that commotion will follow if the Bill be rejected. It is the rejection of the Bill, and not our prediction of the con sequences that will occasion those consequences. We simply wish the Lords to understand perfectly the state Of the country. It; with that understanding, they think the Bill is to be rejected, we have done our duty,-.-we say no more, but wait, in sorrow. the fulfilment of Mr apprehensions. Other parts of the discussion of last night may require notice to-morrow at present we shall merely state that Lord Wharnclife's appeal to the tradesmen )f Bond-street has received a ready answer from that quarter • tkpr e wifirit.vgabftoabitahts having requested Lord. Hollan orin. In the debate oiittiir - ifh/heir anxious wish for Rc eading Were Lords Lansdowne, Goderi - chfor the secon _t, Lords Londonderry, Dudley, and Haddington. Wec43olki any rational man who reads the speeches, whether there is not most striking superiority in the three advocates of the measure over the three opponents. Who can see, without pain, Lords Dudley and Haddington placing themselves in the same category with Lord Londonderry ? What would Mr. Can ning say, if he were alive to witness such a scene. The proceedings of the House of Commons demand almost equal attention with those of the Lords. The contin gent operations of the Lower House are of vast importance. The public will remark the question which Lord Ebrington put to Mr. O'Connell respecting the call of the House. His Lord ship also gave notice, that if certain circumstances occurred, he should feel it his duty to submit a motion to the House on the critical state of public afPairs. The fullest assembly possible of the House of Commons is most ardently desired on Monday next ; for if certain circumstances should occur, to whom or to what has the country then to look, but to a House of Commons, chosen under no ordinary circumstances,—a House of Commons zealous for its own Reform.—Times. The debates in the Lords will be of infinite use throughout the kingdom. If themajority of that assembly should, which we still trust they may not, decide against the second reading of the Bill; there is in the speeches of its noble opponents a valuable set-off against their votes. Whatever may be the numbers of the recusant Peers, their political authority, at least, as mea sured by the reasoning power which (with the single exception of Lord Harrowby) they have exhibited, is not of a nature very flattering to the cause of Anti-Reform. Of Lord Harrowby, whose speech displays no ordinary talents, it may be said with truth, that it is to be regretted we cannot find his Lordship among the advocates of the Reform Bill. But with regard to the Duke of Wellington, we really feel no further concern than that the thirteen or fifteen proxies intrusted to his Grace are thereby likely to be recorded against the general wishes of the nation. Never having extended to the Duke's attain ments as an orator or a reasoner any large share of that ad miration which his military actions may fairly challenge from the world, we did not certainly expect a great deal from his speech against the second reading. His Grace's whole ob jection to the Bill may be resolved into this—that popular con trout over a Legislature body is prodigiously inconvenient to a despotic Minister. There are, doubtless, numberless instances wherein the apprehension of what might be said or done by a real House of Commons, would have for the people a salutary —though, for the Minister, perhaps a provoking—effect, in checking the indulgence of partialities at home, or of vindictive passions against foreigners. There is no sort of doubt that the pension and place list, which exposed the beggarly meanness of great families, with flashy names and Aristocratical pretensions, would have been of far more limited extent,—indeed, that it would never have existed, if that species of democratic watch fulness, so much the object of the Duke of Wellington's abhorrence, had been in full operation over Ministers some 30 or 40 years ago. It is only from one point of view that the mind of this prejudiced soldier seems capable of contemplating a law for the enlargement of the people's sway over the policy of the State,—namely, from the position of the Prime Minister's house in Downing-street. " It is impossible to carry on the Government," saith his Grace," with this influx of a fiery democracy' into the Constitution." Why, if the de mocracy be tierce and dangerous, is it not better, as tip Duke himself found it in the case of the Catholics, to make them part ners in the Constitution than its enemies,—to enlist them in your garrison than to leave them in the camp of the besiegers ? But the breadth of the Duke of Wellington's dislike to popular government may be inferred from his panegyric upon the repre sentative system of Scotland (given up even by Lord Wharncliife as indefensible), and the reach of his Grace's knowledge and re flection is visible in his reason for that eulogy. He spoke of Scotland as the best governed country possible, —as that,likewise, which had made the most rapid advances in wealth, commerce, &c. ; and in the next sentence he lamented the overthrow of a system " which had produced such admirable results !" thus as cribing the growth of those Scotch interests, which the Lord Advocate in his luminous speech showed to be quite independent of the local representation of Scotland, to it, and to its " admi rable" working ! With such views of the principle of popular Government, it is by no means strange that the Duke of Wel. lington should take political systems under his protection, with an alacrity proportioned to the absence which they present of every thing like an approach to independence of Royal, Oligarchic, or Ministerial power. But we were not altogether prepared for an admission made by his Grace on Tuesday evening, whence it would appear that his well.known speech against all Reform, shortly before he was driven from office did not proceed from him in his character of Duke of Wellington, but only as Minister of the Crown ! Apologizing to a Noble Lord, a friend of his own, who had lamented the Duke's denunciation of all manner of Reform, his Grace had the wonderful naivete to declare, that it was " the duty of a King's Minister to protect the institutions of the country !" Good God ! could he have pon dered but fora single moment the meaning of these extraordinary words ? Is it an" institution" of the country that no abuse shall be corrected or grievance redressed ? Is every thing, whether good or evil, to be regarded as an institution ? and is no important change of any kind to be recommended or supported by " a King's Minister ?" The Scotch Parliament, we suppose, was an " institution." How was it protected ? and by whom destroyed F The Irish Parliament was an " institution." Did " the King's Minister," Lord Castlereagh, discharge towards it the duty of " a protector ?" :the penal code against Catholics, or, in other words, the monopoly of all legislative power by Protestants, was as much an " institution" as the borough usurpation ; and more, because it had law to show for it, which the rotten borough sys_ tern was ashamed to shew. Did the Minister of the year Me confer upon that code his " protection ? " The Duke of Wel lington's theory, then, is not borne out by his practice; and well for the country that it has not been so in every instance, since a more monstrous theory never was broached, nor one more destructive of all national confidence in the Crown or its advisers; for what does it say but that, no matter how ardent or universal may be the wish of the people of England for the removal of what is felt to be an evil, the Crown through its Minister is bound to refuse its assent, or, to speak out, the King is, ex officio, the nation's enemy? What a states manlike description of the purposes for which Kings wer e created ! This, however, is not aIL The Duke of Wellington made assertions, positive assertions, and delivered distinct opi nions, tonchinith6 merits of the borough Parliament, which must have been either true or false, and which his Grace must have believed to he true or false, while he uttered them. If he conceived himself to be speaking truth, it is now the reverse of true that he was not at that time pronouncing his genuine senti ments, but was merely playing " King's Minister," and spout ing the lines written down for him. But if he was capable of affirming solemnly his belief in the absolute perfection of the old system, and declaring that the wit of man could not im prove it, being satisfied all the while that it was not perfect, and being conscious that he was stating, as " King's Minister," what, except as King's Minister, he would have confessed to be chfferent from the fact, it amounts to nothing short of a desire to impose both on Parliament and on the people, an unfounded representation of the merits of a most important public question, to serve the objects of the day. What reliance, then, we with sorrow ask, can either Parliament or people place in the Duke of Wellington's most serious declarations ? Or what conclusion can they draw respecting his sentiments on the general subject of Reform, but that he assumes one principle this weak as most convenient for a Minister wishing to remain in office, and a different principle next week when it suits his purpose to turn another Minister out. His Grace's desire that the House should reject this Bill, but should not pledge itself for or against any future Bill, was extremely entertaining. Force Lord Grey to resign on the question of Reform, and then you shall have as good a Bill from me. Admirable candour! Disinterested policy !— Tunes. To the pamphlet, of which we spoke yesterday, entitled The Second Part of What will the Lords do ?" are added three post scripts : the last is the only one upon which we shall say any thing at this moment of hurry. It seems to call upon the Mi nisters to create a number of Peers, and forthwith, In order to prevent the possibility of the Bill being rejected on the first di vision. It may seem proper to explain why this has not been done; and be the motive for such omission what it may, it is certainly a proof of any thing but disrespect on the part of Mi nisters to the Upper House, to abstain from augmenting its num bers, and thus diluting its respectability, except upon the most urgent necessity —a necessity created by the House itself. How were the Ministers to call upon their Royal Master to create Peers, till they knew whether any and what number would be wanted, to secure the successof that measure which they deemed indispensible to the preservation of the country ? It is uncertain whether the Bill may not be carried without any augmentation of the number of voters in the Upper llouse ; and then, what a reproach to Ministers to have needlessly created a batch of Peers! The conduct of Ministers is therefore, as we think both delicate 'and firm. As they will not increase the Upp er I-louse without necessity, so they will not flinch from that measure if the ne cessity occurs.—Times. The Bankruptcy Courts Bill was read a second time last night, and the manner in which it was received by the House would seem to leave no doubt that it will pass. The opinions of law yers upon such matters may be distrusted; because, among other reasons it has been by the influence of lawyers that many honest and enlightened attempts to remedy the confessed evils of our jurisprudence have been defeated from the days of the Common wealth to very recent times. When, however, men like Mr. J. Smith, acquainted with the practical mischiefs of the extinguish ing system, and perfectly competent to pronounce a sound opi nion upon that which is proposed to be substituted for it, declare themselves in favour of the measure, the public, who are the most deeply interested, cannot fail to see the necessity of at least trying a new method, which, if it should be found to have defects, must still be infinitely preferable to the compound,of extravagance and injustice under which they have hitherto suffered.—Times. CALL OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS.—It is very es sential to call the attention of the public, and of every Member of Parliament, to .the question put by ,ord Ebrington to Mr. O'Connell last night; and the notice which: he afterwards gave of his intention, under certain circumstances, of bringing for ward some motion on Monday next, connected with the present crisis in public affairs. The circumstances adverted to were, of course; a division in the Lords, and the probable rejection of the Reform Bill. The motion—either for resolutions of confidence in Ministers, or an address to the Crown, as may be judged most expedient, with a view to the ultimate success of this momen thus question. It IS of vital importance to the cause of Reform, to the peace of the empire, and to the security of all our institu tions, that every Member who supported the third reading of the Bill should be in his place on Monday. We should have hoped that the feat of a visit from the Serjeant's messenger was not re quired to convince our representatives, 1 . that England expects every man to do his duty' on that occasion. At the same time Weadmit, Lord Ebrington is perfectly justified in taking every precaution to ensure a full attendance. The call will be rigidly enforced.—Mornirig Chronicle. The debate on the Reform Bill has been again adjourned. The Marquis of Lansdowhe, in his very able and luminous speech, thre* light On several points on which there has been much mis rpresentation, Cnt of 274,823 accounts of stock dividends kept at the Bank of England, there are no less than 264,668 kept w.th persons for slims lesS thah 2001. per annum. As those persons comprise a great ptirtiOn of the constituency of IC/. householders, Wotild they say to their representatives you may do what you please on the matters that coins before you, but above all take care that Out dividends afe not paid." He alluded to the mis take hi supposing, that because 101. was the lowest qualification, the 101, houSehtilders Would tedominate. The clause which 10/. householders to vote, includes not only those who pay that rent, but all those who pay above that sum, including every thing from 101. to 10,000/. There will be more voters who pay 201. a year and upwards rent thah who pay only 10/. There has, indeed, beet! zionstrotis exaggeration oh this point. In Glasgow, tot instahce, with its 202,000 inhabitants, there are only 6,000 hbuses rated at 10/. and upwards, consequently there will not be above 5,000 voters. Lord Holland, in the carly part of the evening, gave what, in familiar language, is termed a nice trimming, to the Duke of Wellington—" 1 can think (said his Lordship) of a Noble Lord or Noble Duke, who had previously declared that nothing Could induce him to form part of any Government which saheticined a measure of Reform. I can now fancy such a Noble fluke coming down to this House and saying—' Things are now Most materially changed—there is a collision between the House of Lords and the House of Commons. I know what war is and you do not. I told you I had no intention of bringing forward a measure of Reform, but now the state of things is mostmaterially changed, but don't allow large meetings, such as that of Birming hrm, to intimidate you.-be bold be stout, be determined. But if the association be once formed you must give way, then there is danger of war, and agitations, and blood; and I know what war is, and I tell you that you are in a different situation from that in which you before stood, and I will drag you through the mire after having before bespattered you.' It is just possible that a Noble Duke might hold such language." His Grace was a good deal nettled. But it seems, though he was prodigiously afraid of the Irish, and had, in 1822, a horror of civil war, he thinks the English may be easily managed. He had a thorough contempt for them. If not encouraged by his Majesty's Govern. ment, they would not be formidable. His speech has not cer tainly added much to his reputation as a statesman.—Morrwg Chronicle., The meeting at Birmingham has attracted, as we exPected resentin s w vo h u ar ld, ne t t h iff e e es in pec tro i d a u l ced atte th n e tio su n bi tl :hn e Hous. - Lif rd n s m iteeting ocertain the petition adopted at the ho n London, with 1304) signatures, hank„,o'hlp43ll:t,Alkdite - looked (he said) at the proceedings *lie meeting of the Birmingham Political Union, in order to ote their petition, he might say that the revolution was not only hreatened, but actually begun ; for in case the Bill did not pass, they openly threatened to employ physical force to carry their measures." His Lordship then made several quotations from the speeches of a Mr. Hayr.es and Mr. Attwood, to prove his pc sitibn, that revolution was actually begun. As the people at this Meeting conducted themselves in a peaceable manner, it would be hard to make the whole 150,000 indi.iduals responsible for the speeches of two or three individuals • but Lord Wicklow called their Lordships' attention to a proceeding of a peculiar character. Our readers will remember that Mr. Edmonds "declared before God, that if all constitutional modes of obtaining the success of the Reform measure failed, he should and would be the first man to refuse the payment of taxes, except by a levy upon his goods.—(Tremendous cheering? which lasted some minutes.) I now call upon all who hear me, and who are prepared to join me in this step, to hold up their hands.—(An immense forest of hands was immediately elevated, accompanied by vehement cheering.) I now call upon you who are not prepared to adopt this course, to hold up your hands and signify your dissent.— (Not a single hand appearing, loud shouts and cheers were re peated.) Mark my words—failing all other constitutional means." The Lord Chancellor said he did not like this fact; and the fact is certainly a very ugly one. There can be no question that a resolution to resist the law is illegal, is revolutionary; but it is because men possessed of a reasonable share of foresight know— from the sentiments openly expressed at many meetings, and which, indeed, form the subject of almost every conversation— that the people, if driven to desperation, would adopt the danger. ous course above indicated, that they are anxious to put an end to this fearful state of things by a Reform of Parliament, which would instantly give strength and vigour to the law. The anxiety of Lord Eldon to establish that the resolution in the Birming ham case was illegal, at a time like this, when the condition on which obedience to the laws can be expected is the subject of universal discussion in all parts of the country, reminds us of the passage in the " Life of Goldsmith," where, on the Poet's expressing an anxiety, on the first night of one of his plays, for a certain scene, he was answered, " Zounds, who would mind squibs when we have been sitting a couple of hours on a barrel of gunpowder ?" We do not wonder at Lord Wharncliffe's having been particularly struck with the account of the proceedings at the Birmingham meeting. On the very day when that Noble Lord was insulting the people of England by .his declaration that as he was in the habit of intercourse with the people, he could speak to the fact of their indifibrence to the Reform Bill from his own knowledge, 150,000 individuals were solemnly pledging themselves to a measure amounting to insurrection if that Bill should be rejected. What a refutation ! But wise men do not suppose they can add to their security by shutting their eyes to approaching danger. The inhabitants of Iceland foresee the issue of the devastating volcano in the roaring and flame which pre csde an eruption. Would to God that the Aristocracy of this country may open their eyes! One of those "signs of the times," never to be forgotten by those who witnessed it, was the Birmingham meeting on Monday last. The avowed object of this central meeting of all the Political Unions was the clearing their characters from the unlucky imputations cast upon the consistency of the people by those Tory Anti-Reformers who had the temerity to represent the popular feeling as subsided and altered on the one all-absorbing subject—the Reform Bills. Nearly 1.0,000 men marched in from that hive of industry, the Stafford shire Mineral District. Upwards of 12 acres of ground were lite rally covered with Reformers. The political operations of the in dustrious and intelligent _part of the British community are always on the wholesale sca l e . The meeting was held in a small valley of about twelve acres. The sides of its rising banks had, we are as sured, a most picturesque appearance. The most perfect order prevailed—and the physical as well as mental energy of a con siderable part of the vast assemblage may be estimated in the fact, that thousands had been on foot from three o'clock in the morning till past four in the evening, without rest or food, some of the Unions having marched 15 miles to the scene of action. Awful, indeed, will be the convulsed state of this country, if the hearts of the Anti-Reforming Aristocracy are turned aside from the people. On theleads of the infatuated Tories rest the deep responsibility and future consequences of these convulsive throes of public opinion. Their blindness and bigotry have electrified the public mind ; they have created a voltaic battery, which may destroy its maker; but there is yet time to turn from their evil ways and repent. We solemnly warn them, that neither dun. geons, bonds, nor fetters, nor laws, nor military dictators, will conquer the popular spirit. We know the hysteric horror of political Unions, which shakes the hearts of the Aristocracy ; but the Reform Bills alone will " put down" those Unions. Reform will dissolve them as a talisman; such Associations are the wild shoots of mis-government ; good government—Reform —can alone dissolve them. They are tumours in the body politic, but the saving of its constitution.—Morning Chronicle. Lord Wharncliffe received, last night, a most unkind cut from the inhabitants of Bond-street, whom he chose to honour with the distinction of being Anti-Reformers par excellence. There are but 200 houses in the street, and Lord Holland presented a petition, signed by 101 inhabitants, in favour of the Bill ; and at the same time informed Lord Wharncliffe, that " if he would only mention the particular street in which he supposed an opi nion to prevail unfriendly to the Bill, he was ready to pledge himself to bring down to the House to-morrow (this day), a petition from the majority of the inhabitants of such street, set ting the Noble Lord right as to the state of their opinions.— (Hear, and a laugh.) Lord Wharncliffe looked of course exceed ingly foolish ; and the lesson he has received ought to be a warning to Noble Lords not to be so ready to shape their aver ments to answer their opinions. There seems a wonderful tendency in some of their Lordships (accidental, no doubt) to commit mis takes in favour of their own side. Thus, for instance, Lord Wham cliffe last night presented a petition from certain of the inha bitants of Ipswich, against the Reform Bill. On Lord Radnor looking into the prayer of this petition, he found what it was— that their Lordships would take the Bill into their most serious consideration, in order to do away with what was objectionable; and two or three others, presented as petitions against the whole Bill, had been equally misrepresented. Lord Eldon, too, was not less fortunate in summing up the number of signatures to his petition for Norwich. A mistake of 10,000 is a serious mis take. Surely after this we shall hear no more idle stuff about the change of sentiments in the people of this country. In the milst of the overwhelming testimony" from all quarters, it is really childish to see Noble Lords singling out an accidental peti tion, hurried °filo be in time for the second reading, and merely on that account not having so many signatures as a former peti tion from the same place, as a proof of the general indifference towards the Bill.—Morning Chronicle. Lord Harrowby took great pains to show the injust i c e o f case of the borough of Tiverton, with which his family had been depriving Corporations of their influence, and pointed out th e so long connected. Neither his grandfather, father, nor himself had ever possessed an acre of land within one hundred miles of the place ;.still much intimacy continued between his family and the borough for nearly a century. It commenced by his grand father, then Attorney-General, being introduced to the borough by the influence of Government, and from that time they con tinued the Members for Tiverton ; and his Lordship declared that he never appronended any attack, even fronva Nabob with 100,0Q0/. But what does his Lordship mean ? is he deceived ? or is he desirous of deceiving ? What can the Corporators see in the countenance of a Ryder, a family unconwected with their neighbourhood and without an acre of land in their county ? Is it not absurd to suppose that such a friend. ship would exist without the quid pro quo? True it is that his _Lordship's tender conscience has been- relieved from - paying 2,400/. a year for the two seats out of his own purse; but how has he dealt with the public purse ? How has the family of Duntz (no dunces either) been provided for—how have the Walkers been supplied, or how has every individual Con nected with the borough been remunerated for their forbearance in resisting the offers of rich and ambitious candidates ? If his Lordship laments that any a' teration should deprive him of the power to leave this ancient and hereditary friendship to his fa mily, he can easily believe that his dear friends at Tiverton will partake of his sorrow. We cannot, however, give him much credit for their gratitude on a recent occasion, when they rejected his,Lordstiip's son, Viscount Sandon, because they discovered that his enlightened mind had led him to take such a political course as would no longer command the loaves and fishes. We will conclude by briefly stating, that of all boroughs none are so in jurious to the nation as those which are held by persons in office, who, in lieu of paying a ,stated sum, are in the habit of feeding their constituents at an enormous expense to the country, in the shape of places and pensions ; and we do not hesitate to assure his Lordship, that if he can impose on his hearers, he cannot make the same impression - on those who can only read his speeches. — Morning Chronicle. It is difficult to understand what the Duke of Wellington means by stating that in delivering, last November, his memos. able declaration against all Reform, he spoke as a Minister of the Crown, unless he wishes to have it inferred that the opinion of this great question, which he entertained as a private indivi dual, was differest from that which he thought it expedient to express in his official capacity. If this be the meaning of the distinction taken by his Grace, we feel it our duty to protest against the political doctrine which it implies. What is that doctrine ? It is, that in great questions deeply affecting the in terests of the empire, a Minister of the Crown may be justified in giving advice to th e Sovereign directly t h e reverse of what his own conscience and Private judgment approve. This is an un worthy doctrine fo r a Statesman to avow, and a dangerous one t o act upon. He who, i n the capacity o f a Minister of the Crown, resists all Reform, while, as a private Member of the Legislature, he feels convinced that some Reform is necessary, abuses the high trust which his Sovereign confides to him, and deserves to lose the confidence of the public. We know the doctrine of expe diency, as opposed to that of principle, had been carried to great lengths by most of our modern Statesmen. Sir Robert Peel has, on more occasions than one, pretty plainly avowed that 'the rule of political morals is not to regulate eircum ctunstances by principles, but to make principles yield to circum stances. We could mention others too, both of Whig and Tory colours, to whom the same observation applies; but this is the first time, within our recollection, in which an ex-Minister has attempted to excuse a declaration of hostility to the public senti ment on the ground that he made it "as a Minister of the Crown ;" a circumstance which, if that declaration were an act of folly, aggravates the offence. The Duke was never more in error than when he stated that the demand for Reform at the latter end of last year was caused by the French revolution. This statement' is not borne out by the history of the last fifty years, LONDON, THURSDAY EVENING, OCTOBER 6, 1831. In the House of Commons last night, Lord EBRINGTON stated that he should give notice of a motion for a call of the House on Monday, to con sider the critical condition of the country, in the event of a certain important measure not meeting with the sanction of the House of Lords. This is ominous and well-timed. We trust it may be duly appreciated in the proper quarter. The Bank ruptcy Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Friday. The discussion of the Bill wasresumed last night in the Upper House. The principal speakers were Lords DUDLEY, LONDONDERRY, LANSDOWNE, and RADNOR, the two former of whom vehemently de nied the necessity of Reform—or at least of the Ministerial Reform, while the two latter argued as emphatically, and far more effectively, in favour of it. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE'S speech is one of the most able and convincing we ever read, and, by all accounts, produced a great effect on the House. In ihe course of the evening, and just before the regu lar discussion on the Bill was entered into, the Duke of WELLINGTON seicsed the opportunity to express, for the second time, .his profound contempt for all public meetings. His Grace more pal ticularly alluded to the great Birmingham meeting which he seems to look on as a mere bugbear. This injudicious expression of opinion will, we ap prehend, cause his Grace to become more unpopular with the country than he bas yet been. These are not times when the . people ,can be ridi culed with impunity. . Despise the solemn warnings of a great public, we might even,add, national as sembly, like that recently held at Birmingham Why, there were more Englishmen.assembled there than fought under his Grace at Waterloo ? Men equally fond of liberty, equally conscious of their just power as Euglishmen, equally resolute to maintain it. These are not men to be despised, my Lord Duke, even though looked down on from your own elevated position. Rely on it, that if the Reform Bill pass the House of Lords, its triumph will be in no slight degree indebted to the demon stration of moral and physical energy so seasonably and so tranquilly put forth by the Birmingham Political Union. This, if nothing else, will we are convinced have the effect of bringing Noble Lords to their senses. But not only War wickshire and Staffordshire, Berkshire too, and Monmouthshire and Derbyshire, have just met, and manfully recorded their opinions on the subject of Reform. But probably these county meetings are farces too ! We shall see. While the Reform petitions were in the course of presentation, Lord RADNOR took the opportu nity of correcting one or two slips of a Noble Anti-Reformer, who, in the excess of his zeal, slluded to one or two petitions as being inimical to Reform, which on inspection proved to be in its favour rather than otherwise. Lord ELDON was also opportunely set right on the subject of an extra ordinary mistake he had (inadvertently, no doubt) made regarding the number of signatures affixed to a certain provincial Anti-Reform petition. The Noble Lord had only manufactured thirteen thou sand out of three thousand signatures, in the same way as Falstaff created eleven men in buckram out of two! The debate was again adjourned to this day. It cannot have failed to be remarked that, at the Birmingham and other meetings,. great stress was kid on this point—that the House of Lords, as at present constituted, does not represent the genuine Aristocracy of the country, but is composed chiefly of an oligarchy of modern origin, who have no pre tensions to arrogate to themselves any claim to the national veneration. The tenor of Lord WIN CHELSEA'S peroration would lead ignorant persons to infer that he was addressing an assembly, the Mem bers of which had on an average at least three cen turies of noble blood in their veins, for his Lord ship uses many such apostrophes, as, " To you, my Lords, I appeal, in whose veins the pure blood of a long line of noble ancestors mantles with an invi gorating current!" This kind of address may be well suited in speaking to the Duke of NORFOLK or the Earl of SHREWSBURY, but becomes inex pressibly absurd when used towards such a species of nobility, as the KENYONS, MANSFIELDS, ELLEN BOROUGHS, BEXLEYS, FARNBOROUGHS, WYNFORDS, or WIT ARN CLI FFES. If we look to the state of the Peerage up to the last creations, we shall find that, of the titles of the nineteen English Dukes, there were but two in existence in the sixteenth century,' nine in the seventeenth, and seventeen in the eighteenth, up to the year WO. Of the English Marquises, eigh teen in number, there was only one existing previous to the reign of GEORGE the Third. Of the one hundred and five Earls, there were but fifty-one pre vious to GEORGE the Third ; of the twenty-two Viscounts, but four; and, of the one hundred and sixty-two Barons, only twenty-seven previous to the same period. So that, out of the number of 326, composing the Dukes, Marquises, Earls, Viscounts, during all which time the question of Reform has been in a state of penodical agitation, sometimes with more, sometimes with Ices excitement; but, in all its phases, bearing the character of a question which had taken a deep and permanent hold of the mind and feelings of a large and influential portion of the community. The Duke of Wellington seems to have thought that when the cry of Reform was not raised the feeling was extinct. This shows that the Duke, when in office, did not look far beyond the visible horizon of Downing-street, or the columns of the Journals which offered him the daily incense of unbounded flattery for the state and progress of opinion among the people of England.—Morning Herald. DORSET ELECTION.-(FOURTH DAY. D ORCIJESTER, TUESDAY. The result of the poll this day has been as favouraMe as the warmest friends of Mr Ponsonby could possibly anticipate. The poll, at its close this afternoon, stood thus :-- _ _ _ Day's Poll. Gross Poll. Lord Ashley 2ll 1,336 Mr. Ponsonby 309 1,308 Gross majority for Lord Ashley _ 2B This statement presents an advantage on the day's pol to Mr. Ponsonby, of 98 votes. PRICES OF THE STOCKS Bank Stock 3 per Cent. Red ..... shut 3 per Cent-Cons. SO% 33i, per Cent ..... shut Ditto Red. New 3)4per Cent 88% %%% .3 per Cent Ann. 1726 - 4 per Cent. 1828 Bank Long Ann to expire Jan 5, 186' shut Oct. 10, 1859 Jan. 5, 1860 Jan. 5, 1880 ......... - Aprils, 1880 Jan. 5, - OAT •T ON' O'CLOCK. New 5 per — India Stock Ditto Bonds' 2 dis. par South Sea Stock ..... Old Annuities .....» shu New Ditto ..... S per Cent. Ann. 1751 Ex. Bills, .£l,OOO 8 9 pit Ditto.. .50P 8 9 pm Ditto Small 8 10 „Al. Ditto Commercial pm Ditto Advertised — Bank for Opening — India for Account Cona. for Oct. 13 Si 8094 Ys ritlcEs or fuItEIGN FUNDS THIS DAT AT oNZ , t'CLOCY lust , ..ion Bonds Neapolitan BrAsilian Bonds 44 Peruvian Bonds ku - nos Ayres Bonds — Portuguese Bonds !..hillan Bonds Prussian, Old • - 111•••• •• O. •••••• • ... Jolombian Bonds ..... ..... „ — 'Ditto, New ... — Oitto, 1824 „.........„ ..... ••• Russian ....._.....„.......... ........ 91 i)anish ..•..... ....... ••••• ..... ... , Spash. Mel I 3 reek 80nd5 ..„.„.„.„....„.. w 1823........„ Oitto, :825 ............... ..... —lFrench Rentes, sp. c. —4 . Gllathatala.• ••••. •••••••••••••••• ••• ....... Exchange —t. —c. ' , lexicon 80nd5........... ..... — 1 .--- 3 per cent...„ —.4. —.. .:ilio. 1893 I---- Exchange —f. —c. Etv and Barons, of the English Peerage, only 1 0 sess titles of older date than seventy yeast an d , are of more recent creation. It is clearly tidies!: to talk of the long line of noble ancestors of tl' o ; individua's whose families have not yet been for one generation of three score years and ten' tr The truth is that the nobility of this coos have undergone the transition , common t. the P e i bilities of all countries, from an ataistocraci, blood, into an Aristocracy of weal th, that is to sii; a Plutocracy. Those who will tak e the trou clo , cydides," will find there a striking read the notes to Dr. ARNOLD'S edition of between the degeneration of the Aristocrscies:r, ancient and of modern times. Those, I ° ll l, who ever d p into the politics of a greater thin 4t ARNOLD, namely, ARISTOTLE, will fi nd suffiel`,i, explanation of the reasons why an ° li g a h rC i ll' gr wholly unworthy of the public respect *hi e ' twine Aristocracy justly deserves. . The people seem quite aware of the nature of assembly with whom they are at issue, and their ground well if the conflict should become 111 v, how t ' iti serious. We beg to ask the Noble Lords expect to dissuade the people from folfi llii ! i fil k resolutions already entered into against PsYrn,,g taxes ? To what end is it to talk of " the taxes vigorating current of Aristocratic blood, " i t : or machine of Sta.e is likely to be stopped by sr tl ral refusal of the ways and means of er t)ve T t ill or r ell ir Will the blood of Lord WINCHILSEA'S anCe— vigorate the tax gatherers unable to obtain who o i r . will it calm an even more serious t0011114,„,,,N blindness may be a means of eiciting? 'of ibis apathy of certain Noble Lords to the sts t ` to f . country is only comparable to the cooduc ERO fiddling while Rome was in game' d.ro The French Papers confi rm the retrea t 1103/fldivl A sion of the P o l is h arm y un d er Genera l dis onie' into Austrian Gallicia, where it was ,t O er. The cholera was m a ki ng f ear f u l ravage s oli o° o ll e n cn a p n i d ed V p i n e b n i t i i n a. topics. It is singular that in this countrY • o ter hiic e attention should be at the same time engrossing P u " tao r h • tion much in the same manner, but to mo p ot fearful extent. We trust their destiny P • $: larly circumstanced. „, 064 , y. of FRENCH FUNDS, OCT. 3.-Five per Cents. 88f. 3 u," r nts e ',, ti P on ar t is o the the Peerageexcitisio r e oth e r e rs 5c 88f. 87f. 90c. 70c. 87f. 60c. 65c. 70c.; Four pc.,, , ry 85c. 65c. 50c. '1 hree per Cents. 581. 85c. 90c. ~'":4 TI 85c. 80c. 70c. 58f. 65c. Nc. 65c. 60c. 50c. 40c. (s ax 6uc. ; Bank Actions 1,520 f. ; RentedeNaples 69t Rente d'Espagne, 10% ; Royal Spanish Loan, 6 ' 2 " 'o l ,,,on' ' petuelle d'Espagne, 4746% % 47. Exchantlfo one month, paper, t'.sf. 10c. ; money, 25f. 10c• ; paper, 25f. ;_ money, 24f. 95c.-Cours Authentklit FRENCH FUNDS, YARN, OCT. 4.-Five per Cen_r'lea, 88f. 87f. 90c. 80c. 75c. 70c. 75c. 87f. 70 c . 78c. 71,- 00c.:"ct„ 70c. 65c. 6 c. 87f. 70c ; Th ree p er Cents.. 58f. 25c ; i3oloc. 'i ii 35c. 40c. 50c. 48c. 40c. 58f. 50c. 40c. 30c. 25c. Oc,• 0 1 .;41 1, 4 1,540 f, ; Rente de Naples, 69f. 50 c . 40 c. 25 c. 10c. 25c. :30c. ; Rente d'Espagne, 10 1 4 ; Royal sp , n l , - P7 t tv 6214 ; Rente Perpetuelle d'Espagne, 46 3 4 3 4,14 % ,2 „41 1 4 j on London, one month, paper, 25f. 10c., money, •-•,„• fir' months, paper, 25E, money, 241. 95c.-Cours 4, iv A Cabinet Council was held this day at t i d e OF P , reign -office, which was attended by the V I CHANCELLOR, the Marqui s o f LANsDu.. A, , „r Aie MELBOURNE, Lord AL THORP , rim the Duke of RICHMOND, Lord Jour4 &,.c• Right Hon. CHARLES GRANT, Mr. STA" j 4t tba Despatches were received this fure6 oo Colonial-office from Bermuda. the for There were no ar r i va l s thi s mo rning a t reign -Ellice. THE MARKETS.-(THIS DAY' ) ,t per Load of 36 4 16 .ATE ST. JAMES'S'i to r 9 r Hay 3 5 9 2, 15 51 1 grass Hay- ---- j r) 14 Wheat straw 1 1.2 • HAY MARKETS.—(Ai CUMBERLAND (L Coarse heavy Lowland Meadow New Meadow Hay Useful Old Ditto Fine Upland Meadow and Rye-1 (-lover Hay Oat Straw £1 Bto X 1 101 COAL MAR Adair's 275. Od .Ditto (unscreened)--.... 25 6 Gosforth W. E. Bean.. 18 0 Holywell« 27 0 Petaw 25 6 Pontop Winilsor . 24 6 25 6 rantield Townley 25 Wallington 3O 6 27 0 Wall. En,' Caperton ».. 25 6 Ditto Bewicke and Co. 32 6 Walls End Carr and Co. 27 3 Walls End Gosforth...... 31 6 , Ships at market. 29-Sh F.T.— Oct. 5. Walls End Hilda t r Walls End Hotspurl i Ditto Northumberlan.' 4 Ditto Perkins and Ca , g Lambton rriinro,c Walls End Larnbton,f W. E. Russell's Heat, $ 0 Walls End Butter .9 Walls End Adelaide,' Culm 0, Hartley :2 6 Walls End Selby,, ,, T, p 5 Ellison small 1 Walls End small ••••;r6, ps sold. 23.--(110010, ELECTION OF LORD MAY °Pv . (THIS DAY.) et ijid 1 The Reformers have been polling as well to-dai.a_ S p e ter. Monday • they have polled nearly doubletbat - - day's poll, one o'clock, was— Lord Mayor .......................................... 143 Alderman Thorpe ....................... . ......... Sir Peter Laurie ............. ..................... HALF-PAST ONE. Lord Mayor ..................................... 171 .... Alderman Thorpe ... . ........... . ...... . .......... Sir Peter Laurie .................................... TWO O'CLOCK. - - - 30 9 Lord Mayor ei Alderman Thorpe Sir Peter Laurie. The poll finally closes at three o'clock, so that be no doubt of who will be returned, but it is r u— tke that if Alderman Thorpe refuses to serve the oti/Ce , t eer Aldermen will declare the election void in order W choice of the Livery, Sir John Key. IL el FINAL CLOSE OF THE POLL AT TH - 08 The Lord Mayor ............................ e Alderman Thorpe ..... . ........................ s Sir Peter Laurie ........................ . ....... ..• f op This result was received with great cheering crowded Hall. t peter s no doni p o tp THE FUNDS .—( THIS DAY') formation.E 1 u E t x cN t ho r m a w c tati the fe,orfathanyeknCPl'lV ) n o g ss o e f ss W ion ar o s f aw the is ca k p n i o ta w l n of be f r o e ia ; boi n s cl os : eov i; ,, depe is,'r fe, will be anxious to hear from me, and you indY - d lief . 4 '' e i iis in t C e p r l o d rft y t , n ir d t letter ed T h efEroumLt:Suir 19 JCL D u rg vi b by the Emperor as a favourable occasion to show. „di,' in e ft` maintenance of peace in Europe, and his WT. del , re fti fi ,4 towards the other Powers. His own letters lat e ',) g us,? l , 0 the King of England, and to all the Allied Sover e ' rol , ' 0 4 •• the strongest assuranc es th a t h e w ill reco gnise the fil.'el' in the best act of kindness and liberality. 0 I ,e steal 1 i "He acknowledges that the disturbed p are f ° o e . merits now from every Sovereign the greatest , 1 „. S; isc ii) . ,or fare and happiness of all their subjects. . A s to . 0 ,0 ~ !.i , / e ,. it , Russian empire, its resources are great, the armY,. or . uoo , i and clothed, and entirely devoted to the EnWe' 0 0' ~, i 1 of peace will place Russia in a most• prosPe Nus fele manufactures are constantly improving." , ponlot The French Paper the National, says tha ~,,,i , r i find v ' command the expedition ' against Portugal, - h iec t the second in command. 0 , e. f i ,:,;'•• - l i t' THE FUNDS. iv p` , , - 0 1.18 The debates in the House of Lords is the o n i . s ' e is tr he t' in view by the public at present, and nothing % u lt. i . or t"" the greatest anxiety still prevails for the final, ~,r`..-g ti ' Consols opened at the price they left off, ,"'", count, and are at present SON %. 0 . 0 1 The express from Paris is not of importance' s r . goat, hc Up to the present hour we have H n A ot i hi F ng . ru ilt : eP° :ft r a t tl o ' i;ijc irl i no dependence can be placed on them. It is - to t he, . 01 ,er 1 Lords on the sine of Ministers have gone ove r an al' t 4 —Lords Hill, Waldegrave, Howe, Courtenay , _ tee n et, another report says the Duke of Portland _„ in g tiP to t3lo,ir The fluctuation of the Funds during the in°' . 7,Bo','li to , of little importance, the highest price having b c _ ' ar el3o/' „t ' which they went down to 80 , 14 ; at present an d 0 " account ; for money 80%% , with little doing. t cres-i The Foreign Market is entirely void of i nt fl at' 7 , HRE, .... bargain doing. r, a CLOG' • •0' -------- k of 01 Do e be il Yesterday evening, as the L r de, 10, avmesreymlluedghalyt the r e c e corner LINDTON was proceeding to the House_ of _.: 0 1 0 1 : 0 ° 0 1:, him all the ^ i l o ole' o , the Duke to the House, hooting ,,, li „ Duke, who was in his carriage, kept himselfs7.-,1,0 " f eig 4 DERRY met with a similar reception : .....: ‘ ,01 ;11 - ied p i We have just seen an exquisite ~, v o e r d n e b r y o a f ness of his present MAJAsTv, which bas been s _d ) 1 , Mr. MEYERS, of the Strand, in the richest 'I rs . io much as possible in the corner. TheMrn::fr 0 vßasrtidegreo.wstdreeo:,p;virs,;, 0,24, ~, We understand that a number 01 erg y 0 to ° IIII j iitf the Government Offices have left tow __° l ibel A Anti-reform candidate in Dorsetshire. " carrie • d farther?—Morning Chronicle. chastest manner possible. It is really quite , a c g e ier kS to Consols, 80i 1. NO, A ?HINTED AND PUBLISHED BY MORD° YOU SUN OFFICE, 112, STRAND, LOW' PAipt t I. N° SClc/ A OPEN la isiov 13 oZ