The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-04 00:00:00

Ise in , t "N popu.— - te e e. the p en u produce, no 1, a ,, , ?s etre as Pe• Thle IstWa a d i fficu ltylty he felt, but 1n reference th. ' well lit forwar or Preston lag fi. : t l i stp o ' ll 7... t its consequences, and on them must fall the tie 0 1 ° . :_n o l a r_?f having raised the difficulty.—(Cheers lent and ik desirab le idti pc,loll;l4l;r.enarrilieienet i ,h p aavni i ni t t i g cnabe.)—The difficulty was incurred by brought forward by the King's t be a sourc e bringtheir advocated- by the Press and the inrd anal path Who ht that it. ever set it up,the culty tinlY tild that e 1 owev er e was how to deal s reat as this difficulty was, he felt tad---bot °°. vsz(e;4„,eri,iiliclron: venture to commit thie proposed suicide v ithout the Opposition. )-1t; however, great l~a up ef ° r ev° aky ltl P M u b g was the eta all the made,. he should regret it ; and he must bt iti k e , pror,,s intelligent portion of the country would at it otherwiae• with the greatest concern. It was pro ,w view °I rhea gte' ' ' if t he tioute „ Pain were proposed at the market place of a ice that I. u05.. 0 , it, it would hly have the approval of a large ,faithful to s of t tsh,,,ivecr,:il,ketpkiobratger:.; but the same parties would also support it if the a wry al they' rai g h t and if that voice were to be listened to eity ._ es, siii s e 4 Well Sweep away all institutions at once. If looked . lik. ," v 0 consult the interests of those who were one iantv.th the moat to suffer by it, they should consult .. those who Mance A he ;Net, Iht"lligenee, and were best acquainted with those the-y . wanted an example of complete anarchy, for wi t ' o o vslntioq to Belgium, and see how the eff e cts o f a re - R e fertn . of `1 `l t hi s f. ; 1 7 a , 0 ,1 itintite purpose had fallen on the great e fram e s ... t he t 7 sex. classes. I n c o n vers a ti ons ou t o f d oors to gra nnee i„, . e „. ""Ject, he had not met with a single person who wing tosral't• bald it apps,heo,.. 11 0 as to how it would tvoik. It was sec could e°'`... t• . • rattle e n • gee!• t sole ot Ina the King's Government, and that Go :rgehaet ti or r 7 oo.ib i , t p "Z o t ti l:e wise in bringing it forward ; but each armed to he in doubt as to what should counit,rvy.,;:h'the itki,4:•tikeThie.y id, " What can he done? If it be not , ge o ' w heo 1 , 4 15 y ""n6 of the people are so much excited, that pert , !c, a revolution." But he did not see why his by som e s li j oal the v in t lo . l4 , near him should not take some means to hat hP it,ko e Prt s .? h ettoie lr . : of the people.—(Cheers from the Opp°• teficially ses tc ti t , Much of the excitement (as we under anYr 'Lop e d Gentleman) was caused by this being an be,t 1, 4t. :g coinin g from the Crown; but he felt satisfied merest ~0 0 , 16, 4 ,otr such announcement, the people would he sa• field.( hetut the i :t e tt _Much less sweeping, and much more mode (erard of th r Reform. For his own part, when he first felon's: u r ig #eh n s , t e iee N ate i t ' Pisa, he expected that it would be one of MO. , [ not _Pr: N a' ( r epoae ." ° M . , but lie was greatly surprised when he heard ; router: lt : 6o , t the plan in that House. He was much in irese, age 1 ;r 1 t, he .• turn as the Hon. Member for Preston, who Friend .10 a ° 4 did learn it, scarcely knew what to make of it, so :are to vas t) n o , lit beyond even his expectations.—(Hear.) iVith rell t 4 " , i t l* ,gged to thank the House for the attention with he shoeg th at "id listened to him. s e ed,' if si ts at with He must say, in conclu • as per s o b wi t h " every respect for his Hon. Friends around which 11 '' r t refr a i n 1 4 1 .' 4 °Y of Whom he plainly lng acted, he could hear.)- -- ;llet , i - o ' i. ona thus openly and declaring his sen ient One '4O , the Measure they had introduced.—(Loud and greatest loge aeoUclo Ileers ft urn the, Opposition Benches followed Honse. althea p 't° l 3 of this spec) was o a t t S4.II•AIERSTON and th Marquis of TAVISTOCIC rose he wecerorose, rlthy ibetietomosinent,but the former, though loudly called ,tad at A O he " gav e way, and assi s et es et c ps eiry, a t o h e said ) 1 LS of TAVISTOCK addressed the House it S se e should drily the address of his Noble Friend ' other boll! r Y few inuments, but after what had fallen from 110 11 " f 4 4 "' Meinl ee dist _ o at av o i d 'et who last addressed the House, he could tstein _,, aa y i ii traatog the first opportunity that presented itself . if eeii g on a °le:lk , t s rords. The Hon. Member seemed to cast ie very Y. , 4 01 , led t L e Majesty's Ministers for not having in ns would `'oif „N os borough of Tavistock . e eat t h as well as Callington Hear. )---haVist.,ol . 41. t k e, of i,x o :e ,i boroughs which re to be disfranchised. k o , o l o kay i i ii kkg 414, 0t: 4 ;eta s . h, r ,.. No r f. , .n )— Hecertainly so understood the Hon. I reply, he would say, that if the Hon. eel. each. Brlojel would brin g f orwar d a mot i on to h ave T av i stoc k d'otlit i f It should have his cordial support.—(Cheers.) lured Wit t " alteratioo, ^t (th_"e toned from making such motion, greatly did rity te e sredf or , • ta.quis) mistake the character of the Duke that thee._ll ;Rio b6e.. , if lie should ever influence his tenants in the inotince ion' t r ir ,40:,.as The the manner in which they should give :king. ' ? rqk k i, The Hon. Member said, that if he (the his pur a. se r • eli t 0 1; 1 , 14i si t it i, Id. t .4 1 1 te T b ev . i•t oc k) 'would give him a helCcrown, I e I any e „ e $ i _ o vow . ins the return of two members for Tavis ted t r, •C e ,if the Hon. Member would give him a half boltue e ‘yould return him twenty half-crowns if ever ithouti . SI ( 5 ie.... ,t ) Bedford made the attempt.—(Hear.)—The Instead rlitr s!, :, 1 ;!: . r complained of the line being drawn which ctly the 11 °, i 0 i " ,u t 4t e o d er t v a.ls i tock and excluded Callington. Now, with in e lel ! l ai s l it -10 1 \t i ts ' ""Y thet the importance of the latter place, he ecause st . eT 4 it con t ained a population of 1,320 persons, Tau , contained upwards of 6,000,4 popula rld distincti on .' s be t ostto' s ‘rs °eater thantote' that of Bedford ; and lie might also e glad t",. re rifi:. ` ai ttl , lt town would be also left to itself, as far as endous 0 0 , 0 ?, h e y influence to be used by the Duke of Bedford. tethse small tot it eti utit tw n fo n r_ l ll+ , l: 4...s_ , lie would now say . a word as to the s w ay ° l ths t e l s N a , appea. ; ( !n i House, and his feeling, with respect to hitn that the Govrnment of this QOO v'ott:il'y 0; 1 4 4 ' , ` , :t es,„ been carried on i on principles of b n proP 6 ,01 iio e ik.eet:ii,i.ee,atnd wasteful extravagancts—that patro -1 btolsiee l o t roliilthl sit ti 4n Ik e of 1 , up for the purpose of maintaining the uk k a u to.) , 0 00 , Ilitltl lit ti ro ent„ ; at,firowns and that which was known by flt r e 3 ap i r i: t . fur the purpose of carrying on tri 'snore the sense of the country. The people by Ma o ti not th fully than at any former period, that they b e 1, t ' ef sttieri,el and influence in the legislative councils of merely ° v / ou r Ni sei 114 they naturally sought for that change which Ott the : ea t: to them. He sincerely hoped and believed cut . in d i' o fcr;, nstitute L A out tire now before the House would have that ) 1 a fesv iil O l e ! 47 4 1i 4'. HeithWould give them all they could reasonably , r of asc o e rs af e t it i tel ned oned it would cue.) the 'monopoly so long ! an Wow" ,toe'' the g "Y the higber orders, and give a fair expression h of r r sv '' -"" °f , ji u re, , the middling classes. In this view of the seater: I : l l ' f , r r. ti ;i 4 lo u ul i t have his cordial upport.—(Hear.) .t icthetioutited he t - •: th e Noi ` 4 G, in explanation, said that from what he feared that something had utalf-a-erSPI.P' 1: 41 1y l ' t ot in the Marquis, course of his remarks which was per two 31em ber tio lis t he tic e s , ) s f (" No, no," from the Opposition site i re had said any thing which could have been ;nee t e that Os isoes ten,{' 41,`u, must or „ i d, e rt h e • hive escaped him in the heat of de o , o vt: i tsit its, t o do 7 0. sorry for it, bat certainly he had not in pthroep s ae lighte st I , P ; i l iil r va ;:a o , e ha4 (Hear, hear.) For the Noble Duke used he hail the highest respect, and that he r is 4 os st il t i i ‘ . 4h Y j:tice to him to state that there was nothing_ ere, M cu t ' G o 41 ng 1 " whichcould . 00 . 0 ( 0 . Ve ro end ue . warrant the imputation of iow e iLe 'n en% _ influence by means of any measure of t tune n 5,0114 kind , He hid never meant to impute any thing teeted , either to the Noble Duke or to Government, s the P l° , r hie lic" p with t h e ' „ ta l Jel 14 )4. AL AIL measure before the House.—( Hear.) 'wn reel (I''`i h4qw tlaid ess _STON (who was again loudly called the 1, 7 the House. He rejoiced, he said, that l i ne r " i s or it tv , io}l o ,r e) , it y to his Noble Friend (the Marquis of the s osof I s t (M„ h a d created an opportunity for the Hon. ;e inßed r s fse Lave II Ba ring) to explain what might other fl3 he' ' Y n eed an • _ o ,t .i e k, q er e uoei, . impression that something was !ratty _ f s s . s ex , ee to rnment in the framing of this plan out s h o es pr e , ta i; of „, t he views or wishes of the house of Russell. iveresl a° sc' e , or the tend ,at 1 0411 of could have been expected on the one on th e other ; and he was glad that wrespsre,:e;dokui„lijoel 1 , 1, 4 1: 1 1 tittetaztA,llZotthtertoli:l, ‘ t , lie opportunity of declaring that he railop pera? f vfc 5 i4. "14 ) , 11, 14. A i e n . ey any such imputation. With what m ier in the beginning of his speech, e °f O f' oJ ke i ''''he "neu rreil. p scane s te ser He agreed with him in thinking i ,li • " 1 ,0 i St "tret. attention""Sect of importance might have occu rence ° siot,is ase,n s„ the' le j any Rouse at former periods, there song r i les fitted ' , trisect of so much importance as that g b ( t iiseri t' e tis s i edis; t tl itt p, e t t 'f te4ti _to . uirts, consideration. Many former t th enc e , ~ !mice had been decided by their single e Y g rea o t ii l Y oi t o t o l i l i ll stet I. Pre s „ ot '‘ e tth ference to some past experience— cut way ori rO w asur e could not be tried by any such t ll .l ,P r r e s ti ft l i :re' i t , I t er „ w 0.7, , Inch did not affect only one particular s svhD: t er th e ugi affect the whole government and cha was to jle ~O let, rlot "untry, n ry , !ht tho afret, fora m ot m o n n . ly lt now but in all future ages. he reie e l 4 1 01 ,1 t,,Ztlb e ' 4 th e qt,„ to conceal the difficulty b • e , .t el i- ll'"vrsti, 'Lion was surrounded :if lie did, lie of the place be held, and the part he i ner roan for he must, indeed, be a bold or an his a rig ht erc iie io ti,Za leo 4 e dit e :" i( l i to could approach. such a question eratio n of all the difficulties with which ite s to t e : oo. o ri ft la s t ( ; ll , o lP e a _ s 'eci ! who could propose to make such a w on A N e ve _ onstitution s 1 • • , 0 I t r oil. _ ho v withal! its faults had been L s t io t a t r: e .o , ?In th e r °`"Y .. l . h . .nefits to the country at large.- 1_ ,tr i . : 100 0 1 1 4 I e s hold or Etupposit:on benches.) Herepeated , he must ;ly 0 1 . very thoughtless man, who could ' propose Istait's the eon Pt .‘ he hangsr. Without the wed I n .. e t ito l , togs, _ meet serious consideration of it. j 00 6 )st 4 ara cte Fondness fur change was, he must at t , , e rc ,it o , t.e n rof the people of say, England. They bad , te at as sve res s !mark ihle ler , a tenacious attachment to ety• • ' t tt, eon In 'tituti a P er d' d aze trast to ?", affording, in' this respect, a eta or _ theirdelighted neat-door neighbours, who were ✓ 10 , i b ed , .elighted by the freshness and . new with re t f t tt rej e i eo I " . atit e ti ons. Whilst in Old England ob of t i !l t e antiquity of theirs. We well tl2 Jo o l, e 'o g i' o t ; ? 0 , 1 j i : l4ge I . y of bringing the people to con , o b t !,,, t s , s s s s eont;tneir laws —haw strenuously many a 613:? jlc ,la p i t , " c; ),;c e li o ;tl e rei t iti wT3 maintained before they could sa ., the or g o if q i agerl y 'Push certain statutes—how lo y? 11 , se ossio eie struggle was carried on during ri t ° 0 9' t ' th e 11 before 0' tire i f e e t th e Ith e tr a m, , ley could be brought togive on s'l'uritsl'g laws Pepe can human beings, and, at a later g pe to 00 O tt... kfk o . 4to „ .. . t . l ! . It condemned a considerable portion . rd as e per; p ali s id go k tbt:utitieal degradati e th sa e w pe in na a l ; la l a ti o i v° o 7 l , o t , j,;_e4 4 : 1 1 , w te l Catholi n c n s. —" N e Vh m e e n an w t eke 14 „i 40 14 ,Iles tre heretofore to conseut to change, a rs I f 11' . , or innovation,—a desire not confined to : 3 " ° bat ' l a " Y liti' g°{ " ue s or b .00 0 g oro o ow t o it et„t bow-window orators,—bat ma-. ' .0 1 Y. to that st atio n, in ehNing those •of rank, and !or etitiimigee ese s tt i t i l( o l .. ! , 'lluenC e in the country, dernaud .fu al i flog ovo esece ,eviesi 0. ot tuili irtiv: at c; ot gieteibann isieiurnea the . ey: c kiiifl o 3,loan t yr i r i t e irawnygor t e)ik,n ) ; t e . i ; eiy e : _ c g o r n (e a cl t ti Hear,s iponaheettaihre that . if the pen- . vos , itni4 34tie_rily. .dernands tibebepgresuleent; and not i t to ' I :0 I° atte ° and he added, that if the Govern- ment, and the Mee, and the public did not pursue a fal lacy, we should not hare heard so much of the cry for in novation. Now he must sly, that if the Government, and the press, end the public. were of opinion that this in, novation was necessary, it might happen that it was not a fallacy.—(Hear, bear.) He contended that the people of this country sought fora change, because the state of the country was such as to require it.—e(Hear, hear.) Among the many instances which he could cite in proof of that fact, he would for the present only mention one, that they (the Ministers) were now seated on those benches which had been so recently occupied by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite.—(Hear, bear, from the Ministerial benches, echoed by those of the Opposition.) Hon. Gentlemen might say what they pleased, but it was not the difference about the Civil List,—it was not the reduction of the sa lati• US of some hall' dozen offices,—which caused the over throw of the late Administration, The rock which they split upon was their defiance of public opinien.—(Hear, from the Opposition, followed by cheers from the Ministe rial side.)—They went on spreading wide the canvass of patronage as they proceeded; but tied patronage, and the use they made of it to accelerate their progress and in crease their power, proved to be their ruin.—(Hear.) He would again repeat it, the besetting sin of the last Ad ministration was a disregard of public opinion —of public opinion at home—of public opinion abroad.—(Cheers, and loud cries of " Hear" from the Opposition.)—Th e error of the course they pursued did not unfortunately end with their power : it bad become the means of setting Europe in Hanes.—(lleer, hear.)—He asserted that an obstinate adherence to the notion, that a few men in authority could succeed in bearing down public opinion, had proved fatal to the late Administration, and he warned the House that the example might serve as a guard against any such error in future. He would contend that if it were not for the prudence and discretion and activity of two men, of his Noble Friend at the head of the Horne Department, and of the great firinnes.s of the Noble Lord at the head of the Government of Ireland, we might now be in a situa tion to be alarmed fur the connexion of the two countries. --(Cheers from the Opposition.)—Those who recollected what took place in November last, and who considered the steps taken on that occasion, would heir out his as sertion ; and notwithstanding the cheers of Hon. Gentle men in opposition, from whom no very large support or approval could be expected on such an occasion, he would repeat, that to the circumstances he bad alluded, the country was much indebted for the tran quillity that now reigned in that part of the country ; but he must at the same time say, that all that the pre sent "Ministry had done would have been unavailing if they had not been Supported by public opinion.—(Hear.) What they had done, the late Ministry could never have achieved, for public opinion was decidedly against them. He said then, when public opinion was so strong in favour of a change, it was the duty of Government to concede that change, in such a manner as not to impair those advan tages we had so long enjoyed. In looking at the nature of the proposed changes let the House consider some of the evils which it was intended to remedy. What was it which for years had prodUced so much misgovernment--so much of disregard to public opinion ? The gross bribery and corruption practised at elections, by means of which parties came into Parliament, and undue influence at elec tions for Members of that House, by means cif which so many of them came in either without constituents, or only with those whom they had purcl.ased and might sell again. When, then, by such practices the people were driven to tear aside the veil of sanctity with which here ditary respect had invested even the imperfections of the Constitution, it was impossible that they whose limited propositions of Reform bad beets rejected, should not be led to demand wider and more extensive changes. (Hear, hear, he .r.) There were many men in that House who wished things to remain as they were, and who would be willing to bear the faults of the Constitution for the sake of its many excellencies. Ile would tell those people, that if now they were driven to the necessity of choosine between a change which they feared, and the evil consequences which would arise from the refusal of that change, the blame must rest on those who three years ago refused to snake even the smallest con cession to public feeling.—( Hear, hear.)—lf, three years ago, advantage had been taken of the conviction of cor rupt boroughs to bring gradually into connexion with that House the great unrepresented towns,—if, instead of draw ing nice equations between the manufacturing and the agricultural interests, they had turned reformers on ever so moderate a scale, the House would not now be dis cussing a plan of general Reform proposed by his NoVe Friend as his Majesty's Paymaster of the Forces.—(Hear.) —He had supported all those proposals for limited Re form, because he thought them good iq themselves; and because lie clearly saw, that if they were refused, we should be obliged to have recourse to wider and more ex. tensive changes; but his predictions had been condemned and disregarded by the Hon. Gentlemen opposite. For reasons similar to those for which he then supported those limited propositions of Reform, he was now pre pared to support the more extensive measure which had been proposed by his Noble Friend. Taunts had been thrown in the course of that night's dibete against those who, like himself, were the admirers of Mr. Can ning. They had been taunted for abandoning the principles which that great man had adopted with re spect to the important question of Reform. He thought that the events which had taken place in that House since the lamented death of that illustrious person, might have taught those who indulged in such taunts, that public men might change their opinions on questions of deep national concernment, without being influ enced by any bet honest and honourable motives. (Hear, hear, and cheers.) He should have imagined that those who cast such reproaches, would have learned by this time, that public men were not justified in in dulging what he called the puerile vanity of consistency of opinion, if by so doing they might endanger the great in terests of the country. What Mr. Canning's opinion on the question of Reform would now have been, had lie lived to the present day, it was not for him to say ; but they were bad expounders of Mr. Canning's opinions, who looked for -them in particular sentiments, expressed at particular times, and did not scrutinize the principles by which his public life was guided.—(Cries of hear, hear.)—lf any man took a great and enlarged view of human affairs, without doubt that eminent States man (lid; and be would venture to say that had Mr. Canning lived in the present day, and stood in the same circumstances in which he (Loud Palmerston) stood, his great genius would have at once comprehended the neces sity on which the opinions of the Government were founded, and would have stated to the House in his (Lord Palunerston's) belief 'the same sentiments which he (Lou d Palmerston) was now exriessing.—(Hear, hear.)—lf any lion. Member wanted to learn the opinions of Mr. Can ning, let him refer to the speech delivered by that geetle man in February, 1826, on the freedom of the silk trade, when he expressed himself in manlier very applicabie to the present occasion—saying, " That those who re sisted improvement, because it was innovation, might find themselves compelled to accept innovation, when it had ceased to be improvement."—(Cheers.) It was no longer in the power of the House to do, in 1831, what would have been easy in 1828—namely, to take advata: tage of the conviction of corrupt boroughs to transfer the elective ftanchise, as occasions occurred, to the great ma nufacturing towns. A change of circumstances had made it necessary for Government to prepare for the considera tion of Parliament a plan of general Reform. He was aware that those who were wedded to the pa sent system might denounce the proposition of Government to he a re volutionary measures, while those who sought to overthrow existing establishments, and build on their ruin another system, of which they aimed to be the rulers, would stig matize it as insufficient; but he was convinced that those who admitted timely correction and improvement to be the conservative principle of free institutions, would look upon the proposition as well adapted to consolidate the fa'utic of the Constitution, and give it due consistency and strength. --(Cheers.) Any one who look e d a t t h e cons ti tut i on o f the representation of this House, 'could not fail to be struck by five prominent defects,—the nomination bo roughs,—the gross, general, and b are f ace d corrupt i on which prevailed, not only in small, but also in large places,—the wan! of Members for some of the great est and most important manufacturing towns,—the expenses of elections—and the unequal distribution among different classes of society of that power which resulted from the exercise of the elective frenchise. To all these defects the plan of Government applied sound and whelesome re medies. It was impossible for any man to say that the , existence of neminatien boroughs was consist en t w i t h t h e theory of the Constitution , according to which Ilon Mein- ben sat in that House as the representatives of the people of England. He did not deny that some of those boroughs had afforded an entrance into the House to persons of selen did talents and great capacity, who had strenuously advo cated the rights and liberties of the people. But still it was impossible for any plan of Reform to be devised, which did not hare for its foundation the total disfranchi se . went of the nomination boroughs. Besides, without con siderable disfranchisement, it was iruplaosnsibo ve e t f o provide for the other advantages which the p proposed to accomplish. Every man wo uld agree that the number of the Members of Parliament, if not too large,was large enough ; and unless some borough had been dis f ranchised, it would have been impossible, without great nconvenience, to give representatives to the manufacturing t owns ' Some lion. Members had contended, that an un f tir selection hail been .made of the boroughs to be dig franchised—(Hear)—and the Hon. Member for Calling ton had insinuated that the plan of Government had not been framed on general principles, but with a view to save certain boroughs, and the borough of Tavistock among the number. A most triumphant answer to such a charge had been given by his Noble Friend (the Marquis of .Marquis of Tavistock), who had stated that the popula tion.of Tavistock was 5,000, while that of Callington was moniewh it between 1,000 and 2,000. Far the further satisfaction of the lion. Member he could inform the House that there were 25 other boroughs with a population be tween that of Tavistock, and the most populous of the 47 half-disfranchised boroughs, which would retain the privilege of returning two representatives. It was not the object of Government to sever the ties which existed between the middle anti lower classes and the aristocracy; and. they did not think that their proposition would have any such effect. They did not wish to put an end to that influence which arose front good conduct on the one hand, and respect and of erttion on the tither, but to unreasonable sub mission to naked authority. The Hon. Member (Mr. Bating) had stated in the early part aof his sre ch that the proposition of Government would cif. ct a real as well as a theoretical !taper *don of the two Ifousus of Parliameot, acid that ahe influence of the Aristocracy would he excluded front the House of Commons ; but the Honourable Gentleturn in the latter part of his epetteh proceeded to answer his own objection, and Batted that not only the Duke of Bedford would retain Its touch Psrliatnentary influence, but that even he (the Hon. Member for Callington) would still have it in his power to return the Member for Callington. He (Lord Palmerston) maintained that the proposition of Government would not destroy the wholesome influence of the Aristocracy,—that influence which was obtained by eminent conduct, by moral and intellectual diatinctiOn, and by exercising to wards their inferiors those qualities_wbich secured the af fections and gained the admiration of men.—(Cheers. ) The plan of Government would introduce to a share in the Government of the country the great body of householders —that is, the great bulk of the middle (daises of the king dom.—(Hear.) An Hon. and L arned Gentleman (Mr. H. Twist) had been chosen to make himself merry at the expense of the middle classes.—(No, na, and cries of " hear.") He was pleased to sac, that shopkeepers, small attornies, innkeepers, and publicans, were totally unfit to enjoy any share in the representation.—(No, no.) He could assure Hon. Members that he was not speaking ft out memory; fur he had taken down the tion.and Learned Gentleman's words.—(Hear, hear.) But he would ask the Hon. and Learned MeMber, in what respect were the potwallopers more fitted to chose representatives than respectable shopkeepers and attornies?—(bear.) An Hon. Member (Mr. Bluing) had asked why, if it were cot:sidereal dangerous to trust the potwallopers with the elective franchise beyond twenty veers, not dis franchise them now ? Th e answer h e " g a v e that ques. tion was, that theush the Government thought that that description of voter, should be extinguished, yet they did not see such danger in the present electors continuing to exercise the elective franchise, as to induce them to take that right away during the lives of those who now pus4ssed it.—(Hear, hear.)—He believed that the proposition would prove satisfactory to the country ; and notwith standina the taunts which had been thrown on the middle classes, he believed that there did not exist in any country a l i body of men more entitled to respect and confidence titan the middle classes of this country.—(Hear.)---He would ven ture to say that there never was a class of men more dis tinguished for morality and good conduct, for intelligence and love of order, for true loyalty to their King, for affec tion to the Constitution, and, in case of need, for devo tion to their country —(Cheers.)—lle considered it would be one great and main recommendation of the plan of Government that it gave to the tttildle classes an inte rest in the Government of the country, front which they had been so long excluded. The Noble Lord next alluded to the great expellees attending elections, arising from gross and disgusting bribery, and stated that this cause of expense wee proposed to be removed by the intro duction of a respectable and honest body of voters. He did not agree with an Hon. Member that it was wore for electors to sell their votes than the proprietors of boroughs to sell seats in Parliament, because corny tion on such a large scale had a tendency to destroy re spect for the institueons of the country, and demoralize the whole population of the place where it prevailed. An Hon. Member had statel that there was no neces sity to give representatives to the manufacturing towns, because they possessed virtual representation ; bat he (Lord Palmerston) asked, why should .nO, then, small boroughs lie contented with similar representa : lion ?—(Hear, hear, hear.)—The manufacturing towns required something more than virtual representa tion, considering how often Parliament was called upon to legislate on matters. affecting the interests of the com mercial portion of the country. It was therefore desir able that they should possess representatives with whom they could directly communicate, and in whom they placed confidence.—(Hear.) To the manufacturing towns, then, it was intended to give thirty-four Members, and to preserve the just preponderance of the landed in terest it was proposed to add fifty .five to the county Members. Beside', all persons who had votes in towns would not be entitled to vote in the counties, so that the representatives of the counties would be even more exc:e sively than at present the representatives of the agricul tural interest. We looked on the landed interest as the surest foundation on which rested the fabric of the State, and the institutions of the country. He meant no dispa ragement to the manufacturing and commercial classes. He was perfectly aware that they were halipensable to the happiness and prosperity of the country ; and that, without them, land would lose its value. But the House must not forget, that the soil of the country was the coun t!), itself. With reference to what had fallen from the lion. Member for Calliugton (Mr. Baring), he would add, that, under the present system, it was not talent that procured a man a seat in that House, but length of purse —the ability to pay agents and post-horses up to the fourteenth day. This was a great and practical evil, and this evil the Bill would prevent. The great and leading principle of the Bill was, that it would alter the distribu tion of the different classes, and bring the middling classes into communion with the others. The present system did not give the middling classes an adequate share in the representation. He was convinced that the majority of the House would concur in the Bill, as a measure adapted to promote the public good. • There might be men who thought that the weight of public opinion might be cast out of account on this question, miscalculating the work ing of that opinion throughout the country. There might be men who thought that a vote of that House might change the opinion of the country, or that Government might bid defiance to that opinion, and refuse to comply with it. He trusted that the number of such persons, and of those who acted as they did, would not prove to be a majority of the House—(Hear) —as it might lead to serious consequences. Theo were, however, persons who thought that the Bill would satisfy the country, and unite all classe < in its favour ; and he trusted that, in the decision the House was about to come to, the truth would prevail. Mr: BARING rose to explain, but the confusion created by the. previous rising of Sir Rohert Peel vented a word of the explanation being heard. S'r ROBERT PEEL said he should begin by ttoturing his Noble Friend (Lord Palmerston) that one part of his speech, which related to his own personal situation, was wholly unnecessary to him ; for if his Noble Friend had not thought it necessary to explain the grounds upon which he was this night prepared to adopt a course so d fferent from his own, even from his sileace he should have drawn no unfavourable conclusion. He begged his Noble Friend to believ e that he did not join in the taunt against bins. He (Sir R. Peel) had been placed in the same situation ; he h a d f ound it necessary, from a due re gard to the principles which had always regulated his con • duct, to adopt a difercut course from that which he had formerly advo:ated; and h e th erefore ought to be the last man to refuse the indulgen ce of which he had stood in need to public men who were placed in a similar situation. --(Hear.) He never would b e l ieve t h at public men did not look to higher motives than a desire to retain their places, w h e n they were induced to c h ange their opinions, __ and the character, the views, and the conduct of his Noble Friend atr.rded a sufficient guarantee f or t h e purity of his motives. Having thus imitated the generous custom which prevailed even in less di gn ifi e d enconwers,— as he might say, sh a k en h an d s with his Noble ie by relieving hunself f rom any susphion of per siFloarnvaingindistility in what he should say, the Noble Lord would not be displeased, if, with perfect freedom of dis cussion, he subjected Ins.speech to some observation and comment. At a time when the House licd b een expect i ng that some Member of his Majesty's Government would give some explanation.of this measure,— a t a moment when the House wished to know, not what was the public opinion of it, but what practical ground could be alleged for the adoption of what might be called a new Constitution,— the Noble Lord had instead thought proper to institute a personal comparison . hetween th e tner i ts of the I , st and the preieut Adimmstration.—(Hear, hear.) That part of his Noble Friend's speech had consisted of sarcastic allusions to the conduct and opinions of the late Govern ment--and of attempts—and not very successful ones— (Hear)—to magnify the present administration at the ex penseof the preceding.—(Cheers. )—" See," said the Noble Lord, " What we have done. I verily believe," said the Noble Lord, " that if there had not been a change in the Government, this great measure would not have taken place." He (Sir Robert Peel) would not pursue a similar course. No party hostility should prevent him from doing justice where he thought there was merit, and giving praise where praise was due.—(Hear.)—He admired the course of the present Home Department; he admired the conduct of the Noble Marquis now at the head of the Irish Government; ever since he had reassumed that office, he had seen nothing in his conduct but what en titled him to praise and admiration; and he believed there was so much truth in what had been said by his Noble Friend, that had the late administration been in office, they would not have been able to effect - what had been effected there by the present administration.--(llear.) But would they have had the same assistance ?—(Loud cheers from the Opposition.)—Would they, if they had introduced the measures which had been adopted by the Noble Marquis, called upon to adopt them in a time of great public excitement, have found all party feeling giving way to considerations of public policy, and united all in the general support of the Government, is order to defeat the efforts of individuals to disturb the pros perity of the country? His Noble Friend,—he would not enter deeply into the comparison, —but his Noble Friend must recollect, that with respect to Ireland, that very instrument, which had been wielded by the Noble Marquis with characteristic vigour and success, was an instrument which !ie.l been placed in his hands by th e late Administratiou—(Hear)—contrary to the opinion and contrary to the votes, of many members of the present Administration ; and that it the late Government had been, in their attempts to maintain the peace of Ireland, somewhat impeded by the violence of local and internal ' face, it was not the late Government that commenced the reduction of the yeomanry—(Hear.) In his anxiety to find cause for blaming the Administration which had pr ece d e d th e last, his Noble Friend had said, that if, in 1828, that Government had consented to transfer the elective franchise from Exit Retford to Birmingham, the House would not now have been discussing the necessity for a general Reform ; for that that single measure would have quieted the apprehensions of the people, and hare satisfied them—(Hear.) But if from such small events such mighty results would spring—if the transferring the franchise from East Retford to Birmingham would have been so satisfactory to all classes of the community—(Hear)— that there would now have been no' necessity for Reform, it was incumbent upon the House to inquire what was the paramount consideration under these circumstances, which rendered it imperative to change the Constitution of the country.—(Hear.) His Noble 'Friend said, " Why, did you not consent to the disfranchisement of East Retforal ?" finless he (Sir Robert Peel) mistook not, his Noble Friend and himself entered the House together on that fatal night which lead to the dissolution of the late Government, and his Noble Friend and himself had intended to give their votes on the same side upon that occasion ; but the effect of a taunt upon his late Right Hon. Friend (Mr. Iluskisson) had compelled him, in obedience to his feelings, to de viate from - the course he had intended to adopt, and which, out of a sense of honour, led him to tender his resignation. --(Hear, hear.) But, said his Noble Friend, ‘• If you had tianaferred the elective franchise from East Retford to Birmingham in 1828, there would not have been the least necessity for Reform now."—(Cries of " No !" answered by cheers from the Opposition.) Would his Noble Friend have rested satisfied, then, in the present state of the re presentation, with the five grand defects in it which lie had enumerated, and would he not have thought it his duty to come forwerd and rescue both parties - the representa tives and th e represented—front the effects of the corny , tion he had described ? His Noble Friend had lamented that the voice of Mr. Canning could not be heard in that House, and had assumed that that voice would have been raised in favour of the plan of his Majesty's Government. It might be so. God grant that he were here ! Gud grant ' that that voice might now be raised in that House, convinced l as he was that it would be raised to confound the fallacies and sophistries by which the public mind was deceived. If Mr. Canning had lived, and had changed his opi nions on this question, lie would have had the manliness to avow the change. But no expression of Mr. Canning, no passage in his brilliant speeches, carried the slightest indication that such change bad taken place as his Noble Friend had supposed. Where had his Noble Friend found the proof that Mr. Cinning had changed his opinions on the subject of Reform? Why, in a speech which he de ' livered on the silk trade in 1827.—(Hear.)—In 1827, a year after the alteration of the silk trade, Mr. Canning, when sitting on the bench opposite, backed by the sup port of a lirge party in the House, upon the question as to what was to be done with the franchise of Penryn, Ms. Cinning, against the dictate's of his own judgment, sub mit-ed to be left in a minority of his friends around him, on a question whether the franchise of Penryn should be thrown into the hundreds or 'transferred to Manehewer,— (Hear, hear. )—Thus, when his Noble Friend threw out imputations against public men, a tenderness for the fame of Mr. Canning had induced him to vindicate his memory. He now nine to the tremendous question More the House ; last before he approached the consideration of it, he must confess that he was afflicted with great pain and humiliation, beyond any thing he had ever experienced in considering a question of this description. He was asked, he would not say to make a revolution in the country, but to substitute for the present system a different Constitution —(Cheers)—and he was not invited to do this after a calm and dispassionate inquiry, but to take this hasty step by an appeal to motives, which, if he acted upon, he should not be subjecting his fears to his judgment, hut hi. judgment to his fears.—(llear, heir, hear.)—Before he proceeded further, he would ask why the King's name was introduced in this discussion ? Why had it been stated in another place, that this plan had received the particular sanction of the King? As to the reference that had been made to the discussion on the Catholic question, the cases had no similarity. On that occasion it had been publicly stated that the measure had not the sanction of the le*ng, and the Ministers had then no alternative but to declare that the measure was brought forward by the sanction of the King. But When a treasure like this was brought forward ia b b o y th tb u e oAusdesinitotiforatitl Parliament w as , t a I n t d e " in s a t r h y ; p d u ay tlaicfteprredsasy;to state that this measure, ivhich must have received the approbation of his Majesty, was brought for ward with the express sanction of the King ? He (Sir i f on h eed disregarded meas u re t , h e a n intimation if, as a that the King ha R. Peel) held it to be no imputation upon his r e sp ec t an d loyalt y to the Cl Member of Parliament, lie exerci se d hi s Ju d gment on t i me d merits of the question as unreservedly a s if no suc h i nt i. illation had been given. — (Hear.)—But he regretted,Crown,cti on other grounds, that the name of the Kites should be thus obtruded day after day.—(Hear, hear.)—He- could not dismiss from his mind doubts as to the justice and ex pediency of this extreme i measure of disfra nc hi sement; b ut granting • that they exist, s till i t was a harsh measure towards the loyal b o di es w h o were called upon t o sacrifice privileges which they had long exercised ; an d even if it was j ust l y i ntro d uced, why should the King - be held out as the special author of the phut? H e (Sir Robert P ee l) had thought th e King had been t he fountain of g race and f avour; but it shat if his plan of extreme disfranchisement w a s t o el by the House, and not to be diss e nted from, seemed be receiva under the terror of its being introduced with the King's ex press sanction, if n o t at the Ki ng ' s sugges ti on . Th en t h e House was menaced with dissolution.—(Cheers.)-, Tile c hances of dissolution vs ere as strong if the measure were carried as if it had failed. He (Sir R. Peel) caned riot if the House were dissolved or not ; nor shou'd he be fit for the performence of a sin g le legislative duty, it lie per mitted any such menace to influence him. Ile cared not whether he was returned again or not ; but if he felt an y anxiety on this head, he wou ld go t o hi s cons tit uen t s w ith the Bill in his hand—(Hear)--and he would place his special ground t o th e i r renewe d con fid ence upon hi s determined oppo s iti on to i t.— (Cheers.)---He would go to a community w h ose numbers, .b a y the return of 1821. were not more than 4,000 inhabitants, and he would tell therm that thi s Bill h ad been brought in w i thout any ' a ll e gation of necessity, or without any case being made out against them, and that he had oppos d it. He knew they had never abused their rights : that the humblest man a mongst them never received or asked a bribe for the vote they gave.—(Hear.) —They had received him when lie h a d been subjett to the indignity of expulsion for that he conceived to be especial asst of duty, eves; to that church of which, he yen n htmilile .Inomtier. They had then returned him as their representative; and until the necessity of the measure was established by more cogent arguments than lie had yet heard, he would not consent to deprive them of their tight. But be was told that lie must adopt this measure, as the al ternative was civil commotion; he was to be seated from the exercise of his deliberate judgment on a peculiarly complsx and important question, by the apprehension of a m assacre, for such was the picture given by the Hon. Member for Caine. But why should he (Sir It. ?eel) not have the privilege exercising the smile judgment on this Bill as th e li on. Gentlemen on the other side bad done when th e y voted against the Bill of the Noble Lord last year? Th e y did not think thet when they rejected that Bill it impli e d an aversion to all measures of Reform. upon the s ame principle, those gentlemen rejected the vote by ballot; and why was he not liberty to discuss this Bill ? He would say to Ministers—" Don't shift from your own shoulders the weight of responsibility which attaches to the proposal of such a measitre—ilou't 's,y we will pro7e our capacity to govern, hut baist .. ratber of your ability to destroy."—(Loud cheering.) He at least had not been one who industriously excited the stormy wave of the multitude,—who employed all his faculties to create dissatisfaction and discontent.—(H.-ar, hear, hear.) He at least had never uttered the language of a Noble Lord in 1827, who found the people peaceful, quiet, and contented, and complained that he could not rouse their indignation against the constitution of the House of Com mons,—who grieved that they were so apathetic as to prove " deaf to the voice of the charmer, charm he never so wisely."—(Hear.) He at least had never called for a list of the names of 113 privy councillors, in order to direct against them the full torrent of popular displeasure and resentment, on account of the remuneration afforded to their services. —(Hear.) Neither had he ever instituted any invidious comparisons between the great naval com manders and the civilians who presided over the Admi ralty. Neither had he instigated and encouraged any body of men to display, under the very windows of the seat of Government, a foreign emblem of revolution.—(Hear.) He had never been the person to excite the people to a pitch of phrenzy, to spur their lazy indifference to an emu lation in revolutionary clamour. If, therefore, this mea sure, which common prudence would have forborne intro ducing at such a crisis in our foreign and domestic rela tions, when fresh cause of excitement oltght to be cautiously avoided,—if, he said, this extraordinary measure should be defeated, he would never allow that the responsibility of the disappointment could attach to him or to any other individual Member of that House.—(Loud cheers.) Re ference had been made in the course of debate to a sup posed intentional diaparagement of the middle classes on the part of an Hun. Gentleman near him ; but if one word disrespectful to that body had escaped from any one whomsoever, be would take leave to say that he did not participate is the sentiment. On the contrary, he should ever repudiate it from his heart, fur he de rived his strength from that order of society, lie was one of themselves, and should always b 3 proud of his connexion with them.—(Loud cheers.) Of the judg went and sound understanding of the middle classes he en tertained a very high opinion, and wcl would it be if they evinced more good sense and moderation than their rulers..—(Cheers)—if not, then indeed did he despair of the deatioies of the country. There were, however, daily indications that his confidence in their clear-sighte ham on political subjects generally would not be misplaced. It was not long since the Noble Lord, in the offi ce of Chancellor of the Exchequer, had assumed that a large body of the people had borne a tri-coloured flag to the Palace of St. James's, but the assertion was met by such their indignant refutation. Su far from intending to flaunt an unnational symbol in the eyes of their Sovereign—so far from preferring a foreign emblem to The flag that braved a thousand years " The battle and the breeze," they conceived themselves very much grieved by the mis representation, as if it carried with it an insinuation that they conveyed treason under the garb of an ensign of liberty. The truth turned out to be, that instead of thu+ exhibiting their supposed admiration of the three dap, of Paris, this tri-coloured or rather qua fri-coloured flag con sisted of three or four remarkably beautiful specimens of silk manufacture, carefully folded and sewed together at the well-known estahlislament of Lea, Bowfield, and Co. —(Loud cheers and laughter.) If in inquiring whether they should adhere to the Constitution as now established, they found that all its benefits only centered in borough mungere, then argument in its favour would be nugatory ; but he submitted it would not be difficult to make a calm temperate appeal to the better judgment of the people on behalf of the old English Constitution, of which be was sure no such assertion could be predicated. It had been said by the late illustrious Mr. Canning, that the modelling of a Constitution was a matter of extreme deli cacy in proportbn to the complitmted character of so deli cate a michine. Who could pretend to judge of the sym metry and proportions of the liormin fratou, of its orgins, and faculties, and endowments, which fell so little short of angelic existence itself, by merely examining an isolated member, or detached feature of the fabric when perfect as created. Let lion. Gentlemen remember that all moral theorists and philosophical writers for a thousand years had despaired of realizing in practice a system of such ex cellence as the British Constitution. Must not Cicero himself have contemplated our form of government when he said " Existirno earn ease optimatu republicam quite conic ituta est ex tribus generibus ?" Had not Tacitus de scribed the best and most durable government to be a com bination of King, Nobles, and the people, particularizing with accuracy the several parts of our Constitution as it now operated ? He had heard frequent allusions to Burke and Canning, and other great authorities, whose opinions had been adduced in the course of this debate, but he would quote a passage from a speech of the Noble M e mb e r for Tavistoek (Lord J. Russell), in the session of 1819, which he considered touch more to the purpose, and was, besides being apposite to the question, one of the most beautiful specimens of eloquence ever uttered in that House. by tle v e r i y t N hi e u b l le th L e o a rd idi w tio h n o al n m ow erit sou o g f ht be t i o ng la s y po v k i e o n . lent hands on the Constitution. The discussion alluded to related to the disfranchisement of a corrupt borough in Cornwall, whets the Noble Lord was asked what he proposed to do with the unconvicted boroughs ; to which he replied as follows but in making this quototion, he must premise that lie never meant to blame the Noble Lord for changing his opinion since then, if he saw suffi cient grounds for the change ; but the reasons whieh he then assigned appeared eternal and irrefragable, and not of a nature to be less cogent now than when originally uttered. He on that occasion replied that he would con sider a general disfranchisement of the unconvicted bo roughs, a re-construction of the House of Commons alto gether.—(Hear.)—He had therefore the Noble Lard', ?wit authority for so designating the present plan of Reform.— ( Hear.)—The Noble Lord, however, went on to eulogize the Constitution in the most eloquent terms of praise which it was possible to employ. He observed that " Old Sarum had existed when 'Montesquieu pronounced the Constitution of England the nearest to l:erfection of any which the most enlightened States had ever before expe rienced. When Lord Smarts, and the other great legis lators and philosophers who flourished with him, "bore at testation to its merits, it was open t the same objections which were since urged against it; and when Hampden lost his life Rutland return-d the same number of repre sentatives as Yorkshire.--(Cheers.)—He was not in clined, with the pseudo-merchant in the fable, to cry New lamps for old'—(Laugher)— end would not c , nsent to exchange the instrument which had created so much national prosp4ity for a burnished and tin selled article of modern manufacture.—(Laughter.)— Neithe r would he willingly throw our political.sys•ern into the wheel on the chance of obtaining a prize in the lot tery of Constitntions."—(Cheerg and laughter.)—Such was the Noble Lord's judicious, and at the present moment timely warning against the danger of rashly departing from the practical wisdom of mankind, during centuries of historical exper:ence, proffered, too, at the critical jugs., tore of 1819, when the Six Acts had the Seizure of Arms Bill, the Blasphemous Liao /Jill,/Jill, and the Newspaper S'ainp Bill, was in actuy s l progress through the House.—(Cheers.)—if sects was the line of argument of the Noble Lord in 1819, lie ie his laugnage would then call upon the Uonse to prefer the solid ancient lamp of the Constitution, to the temporary tinsel of modern sophistry. Hear.)—Wilt respect to the great question before the House, he could not but declare that he saw in it but the instrument of men endeavouring to retain potvei . , Hear, and " No.")—He begged pardon if in tf.tor, but they all knew how prone people were to receive disclaimers of anxiety to possess power with suspicion. And this allu sion to etee led him to another topic not discono,ected t7ith his subject. It had been industriously circulated, that with a view to out-bid, or, ;viler. under-bid the Noble Lord in his weaenre fur Relent}, awl with a view to effecting a restoration to office, some 'Member of this aide of the House would have come forward wail,, same plan of moderate Reform of our ow/1,--raison)—H e The af ic ap n ee e t : rnt, n ta : ne tty r i e , really y ft t N t r, o ae w stis : n o ge m co l t e l: t s tl o t a f n l e ss .i t . t s r p d a a p s e s r el l . v ti r lz. r, seem to think tlia the suntnium &mum of human the ro le y i biect of all our exertions, awl pubition, is the and health on the Wtcolu7 ltipttcit "ppoi.e. Vor Isis part lie was actu a t e d by nn unlit idle ambition,—(Hear, hear.)—lle if such were his object, have proposed a into of mo derate Reform, but as he had not thew so, he per suaded himself that he afforded a proof that Ise had no ambition of istce thwough such a channel.—(llear.) And this ha might have done with tie less hesitatiotls as he hail never taken a decided violent pat against the Reform measures which had been, disc ;red, of late years in that House, so that ha was not barred on the score of consistency, it tie inestimable blessing of sitting en the bench opposite to be night after night bab:ered, Were the object of his ambition.—(Hear, and laughter.)—After, indeed, he had lost thy, eaa m enee of t h e th ese , an d thence office, if Ministers had felt it necesgary to propose a as fe and moderate Rehtrm of some branehes of our repre sentation, he would most probably have acted on the views taken by the lion. Member for Caine, of the overwhelm ing danger to be apprehended front all resistance to change and hove given it his support as a private individual, though lie might not have thought it tit to originate it in an official capacity, lie repeated he would not have ob jected to a measure for extending the elective franchise to nu He upon Lis honour as a gentle. some places not at present possessing it. The Might spoke c°Ul'i the a n ssu w r h e ol i ly im u w n i i: m aiill :n tnr , tulit' t th l n ia a t ann l d e P . l n : E ic e t: t i • i h stmYn ad 'ilae l nd ..... d. conference with any individu .1 oe the sohject.—(Hear. fluenced.by personal or party considerations, in his indi. ..vidual capacity, —as a man who had a far deeper stake in maintaining the integrity of existing institutions than he could derive from the possession of any office.—(Hear.) Feeling thus deeply. interested in the wellbeing of this Constitution, he could net consent to a measure which, in the words of the Noble Lord, went to re-construct the very forms of that House; and, be the consequences what th• y may, so wholly did he despair of being able to modi'y the Noble Lord's Bill into a kind of moderate measure less objectionable, that he would oppose the plan of the Noble Lord altogether.—( Hear, hear.)—And why would he act thus? Because, having attentively listened to the Noble mover's statement, and to all that had been subsequently said for and against it, he felt convinced that if the Noble. Lord's argument was good for any :thing, the mteletee which he then proposed could not be a .final one, but a mere precedent to still more dangerous innovations. The Noble Lend had told them that he found the ancient Con stitution of this country in 25 Edward L and in the statute de tallagio non concedendo- 7 but what did these Statutes express ? simply that " taxes should not be levied without the consent of the commonalty of the realm.'' And then, argued the Noble Lord, if Reform be a pies lion of right, which he held it to be, here was the right anciently established. If this, then, be the right priori. i le of the case, let him ask the Noble Lord how far he had e usulted it when he proposed to disfranchise so many thousands of those upon whom taxes are levied ?—(Hear. ) —Did lie assume that the law admitted of such a dis tinction? It did not ; yet the Noble Lord at once would disfranceise all tax-payers rated under 101—( Hear.)— How could he justify his distinction, particularly on his own premises? This objection, which had been ably. urged by the [lon. Member for Callington, appeared to him quite fend to the Noble Lord's measure. There was another objection also urged by the Hon. Menf . er for Callington, which appeared to him of great weight. It. was the inevitable tendency of the Bill to sever every. link of connexion b tween the poorer classes and that class from which their representatives were usually chi sen. Now this severing of the ties which con nvted the . highest and I,e lowest classes was op posed to the practical workings of the pre•eat system of representation—a great characteristic recommends. tory feature of which vm as, that it enabled every class in the community to, in some way or other, have a voce in the e'ection of the Members of that House. Now he did not mean by this to say that the fi anchise should be extended to all the members of all the classes of the CO.lll munity, but that the Consvitution worked well from having here sail theme an entrance channel fur the broadest prin ciple of popular sepresentatisn. If to snake-himself better understood it Was proposed to him to snake a selection between the franchise in force in Windsor and that in force in Preston, he would not hesitate to p: der the former, but be would not theteFote abolish the Preston franchise, and assimilete it to that in Windsor : all that he would do was, to take care nut to terl‘e it as the model for his plan of extending the franchise to ether places, but not so the Noble Lord's Bill. It would disfranchise all those open boroughs the votes of which were not rated at 101., though no reason had been, or could be, adduced for de priving the freemen of Coventry, or the pot-wallopers of Freston, of their franchise. Would not, he put it to the Noble Lord and the House, the effect of this disqualifying principle be the - affixing a political stigma upon those not eligible to vote under the 10/. qualification ? He could not consent to the measure were it only on this ground,— for lie could not consent to a stigma upon from 200 to 300 of his constituents which the Bill would elisfranehise ; tee be left, forsooth, to a Privy Council arrangement, by which Noble y e te n t n a a n w a n d o ii s i p it , i , n k g e o h li .n— l i y g( se hit e ie l l Ew s)ii t ' h lyli e Ll: B te i ' l e i )l.a :::wi ll i e l i(si put an end for eve r to the m iptliasi n ert n a' strous principle of non-resident freemen, and all the ex. pense and vexation of bringing men some 200 or 300 miles to vote for a Member in a place in which they had no local or personal interest. But he aske,l his Noble Friend how his nun-resident constituents of the University of Cambridge would receive this proposition? Had the lion. Baronet who represented the University of Oxford con templated such an arrangement ? [lt was here intimate 41 to the Right Ilan. Baronet that the Bill would not 'apply to the Universities.] No I What is this their general rule that had no exception ?—(Loud cries of " Hear.") The reason—the peculiar beauty of which was, that it applied unflinchingly and without exception to all classes and places.—(Hear.) What does it do?—why, snake an ex minion of a body—the clergy—the very men who least need being made an exception ; while it deprives the less. pretected poor man of the privilege of voting where lie does not possess a Lou , . rated at 10/.—(Hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet dwelt on this point at some length. Ile would next apply himself to the argument. which hod been adduced against the close borough system. Now it was usually, and as it appeared to him most convineingly argued, that those borou g hs were advantageous by their , affording the means of access to that House of own who had no elaitne beyond their ability. Two objections bail been, in the course of the debate, urged against that etas,- ment ; the one, which he must say came with a very bad grace ftoin .the Hon. Member for Westminster (Mr. Hob house), himself a man of very great ability—(Hear, hear) —was that it was by no means desirable that mess of splendid talents should ha members of that House—that in a Refortnel Parliament solid sense and integrity would be more highly valued. Now he, on the other hand, maintaine I that nothing tended more to fester the ptiblie respect fur that House than its being the great arena of t dent and eloquence, and that nothing would lower it more in public estimation thin that it should be Leon the ave rage ability of educated retitle:nen, an,l that t a li or and ability would have a welcome ' reception within its writhe But, says the Hon. Member for Calne,—•r Yes, let us have men of ability by all means," but let us seltet other means fur their obtaining seats than close boroughs. Give us a purer an I mote extensive franchise, and they will get in at least as much as they can at present. But what, said he, is your test of ability? Take every 100 men you roe. t in the street, and one of them will be a titan of ability—take 100 nausea in the Red Book, and one may lie a man of ability—and so of 100 men of tawny complexion ; but are these m n to get in by the accident of a close borough? And then the Hon. Member asked them, was it fair to judge by the accident instead of the general tendency of a system ? Now he (Sir 11. Peel) was content to judge by the tendency and not the accident of the close borough system, and would maintain that that tendency was osentiaily favourable to the entrance of men of ability into that House. He had that morning turned over the names of from 20 to 25 of the most distinguished men that hall graced that House for the last 30 or vs years —men of whom it might be said with the glowing leuguaee at Lent Plunkett—were possessed of that " leen:alley of genius which would float them down the stream of posterity ;" and he found that, with three ex ception., they were returned for boroughs, which the Noble Lord's Bill would wholly disfranchise. Th ere w as Mr. Gunning, Lflrd North, J. Townsend, Mr. Burke, Mr. Flood, Mr. Pitt, Mr. Fox, Lord Grenville, the Mar quis Wellesley, Mr. Pereeval, Lord Plunkett, Mr. Can_ ping, Mr. Wyeldbant, Mr. Horne, :Mr. Hitskissen, Mr, Broughato, Sir Samuel Romilly, Lord Castlereagh, Mr. Tieeney, Sir W. Grant, Lord Grey, and the late Lord Liverpool, all first returaaed for close haronehs—( Hear) —and but three cot their. ever merrihera for counties. Nor was t 6 mere facility of admission the tmy }w refit. i's - he introduction, hy effordieg them its, oppor 4«nity,—the essential ccindltaon of successful tailent,—fite displaying their legiAttive ability on a large scale, recto-o men-lel them to a %nitre extensive franchise at a more iene- Cure age; alei again, when they, i s ee caprice o r went re ' morwy, or otherwise were depe 7 ived of their Ise gee seats, 'simile close boroughs, whiell the Noble Load's led! wee lo iiestroy altogether, vetAved them, and nag red their inva luable labotvee to their country.—(Haar.) Snell was the. c tee te;loil Mr. Shei hien was defeated at i`..-I!afford-.....1te fouset elteiter in Ilchester. Mr. Wyndham having failed at Nor wich, took refuge at 1-11ghato Ferrero; and Lord C a , l e , reagh, in like mealier, having lost his cleetioo in the county of Down, was returned for Oxford. Mr. Ti me , wheel he lost Southwark, was retuned for K T - 1311 ,1,, obigh ; t and Lord Grey for Tavissoek - , when defeated in Northam- • bedand. Alltli;,!.roved that the tentletoey and not the, mist re accitleot of the close borough system was to facilitate o thL i e n n.' - fz: t e in of th n a l t e c h o u f s a . b ._ ili:ye a li r. o ) f3At wasnd A"iS 0 (11:1 ; 1 1 3 st a:: thus working so adva4tageous; v for the genteel well,--so fostering of talent and statesmanlike ehility,—to be destroyed in obedience to the Noble Lord's plan? During ISO yeses te,,e constitution in its present form was in force, and he would ask any man Ow heard him ta declare whether the experience` of history bad produced any form of goveronetort so calvoLttetl to promote the happiness and secure the rights a:ed liberties of a free and enlightened people ?—(Cheers.l Many other experiments had been tried to ingsnft demo- • cratieal upon monarchical institutions, het how 1,41 they socceeded ? In France, in Sp in Poi tugal, in the Netherlands, in every country on the face of Ow earth, with the exception of the Milted States, us. t e j T ,, t. riment fbrming a popular r epres i c , :i: E v t 'v ile, G i; and of uniting it with a iii . oriarehy, had c th i rrri te ost ed' h ? enen li e i i A al m e e ff s e je c a ts ti r l i P t H lie ou w s o e u allaglateire'ngtx9kid