The Sun. — London, England, 1842-02-16 00:00:00

id not altogether approve of that, which inflicted some little torture, when compared with that imposed by the measure of that Right_Hon, Member. Neither the Right Hon. Baronet, nor the Right Hon. Gentleman the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, had alluded to the grounds upon which they might justify a protective duty. Neither of them made any attempt to explain the reasons for imposing such a duty. They talked of the burthens on agriculture, whilst they absolutely shunned entering into a statement of those burthens. They talked of the comparative cost of producing corn here and abroad, but they abstained from entering into details upon the subject. They had sent for information from abroad, which was no doubt very important, but they had made no use of that infor mation ; and, at the moment after having heard the speeches of the Right Honourable Baronet and the Right Honourable Gentleman, he confessed himself utterly ignorant of the principle upon which they justified their protective system. They bad not explained in the slightest way what were the grounds upon which they assumed one scale of duty rather than another. The only thing approaching to an explanation given by the Ilightlion. Baronet was this, that he found the average price under the existing l aw was 565. per quarter for wheat, and he had accomodated his new scale to the purpose of endeavouring to secure that price. That was certainly a most extraordinary answer to the people of England.—(Hear, hear.) They complained of the existing laws, they stated the suffer ings which they were enduring from those laws, and they complained of the high price of corn to which they gave rise. And what was the answer of the Right Hon. Bart. ? He said lie would introduce a newmeasure, that he would bring forward a modification of the Corn-laws, and in rs Tly to the prayers •f the people, be told them that he woulci endeavour, by his new law, to maintain yet more steady the p aees which had obtained under the former - system, which they detested. In fact he could not,look ins, at that measure with they eatest care and anxiety, he could a not see any other motive for its introduction than a desire to relieve the agricultural interest from some of the gratuitous obloquy which the absurdity of the existing law caused to be thrown upon them. It would do nothing to lower the prices of the food of the people— the authorliiriiselfof the measure, the Right Ilon.Baronet, shrunk from holding out the very slightest hope that it would afford aay relief to the public. lie abstained from encouraging ally_ expectation that it would revive the languishing trade of the .::.`_`niltrY, or give employment ) to the unemployed millions. — -(lte,s; Vas that, then, ),_ the measure which, after six moans' nreparation, after announcing a change in the Corn-laws at the Speech from the Throne, after admitting . the un exampled distress in the nation, and the unexampled fortitude with which it was borne—was that the measure which `the Right lion. Baronet thought proper to submit to Parliament?—(Hear,' hear.) Deeply did he deplore that such was the determination of the Right Hon. Gent. But if he came there as a party man he should re;oice in the determination, because he was per fectly- satisfied it would seal the fate of the Right lissnourable Gentleman's Administration. The Right Mu. Baronet could no doubt pass his Bill, but it was beyond his power, or the power of any Go vet-rinse:at, to maintain the present system of the Corn laws or aria/ modification.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) Not only was it beyond his power, - but it was beyond the power • '(;.f legislation. The people of Eng land had taken the question up, and like all questions which they took up earnestly, aitl with good will, they would settle 'it according to their own pleasure... Five • aels. -s ago, he (Sir William Clay) bro u g ht forward a mot ,„ .. a for the repeal of the Corn-laws, and he had scarcely ate; supporters even among his own consti tuency. He wi.s: most glad he had given up the ques tion, and that it Lilt: fallen into the hands of the Hon, Member for Wolverluitirp.."' who agitated the measure with such ability and perseverat,...: e. But what was the state e p of the question now ? Ile believed this. t last year th hat eople was would have been content with the • ref.. `l3 thanks, proposed, and would have accepted it wits. ' but lie did not think that they would be content with it -.7 °w ' He believed the people would not be content now with a fixed duty, and that their demands would always in crease in proportion to the time they were refused. — (Cheers.) Ile did not believe that the repeal of the Corn laws would altogether remedy this. He had not now the same hope which he entertained five years ago, that thl ; repeal „pfahe Corn-laws would effect all the benefit `he anticipated at that time. • At the same time, he believed that the repeal of the present system, and the restoration of a free trade, would do much to improve the prospects of the country. The repeal of those laws would also remove the differences which existed between large classes of the com mvnity:—(Hear.) The ground on which lie stood was as insecure as the sand which was washed by the mouutain tide ; and, in his opinion, if the Bill passed, though the settlement of the question might be delayed, they would at length be compelled very soon to re.cind the Bill.—(Hear.) Against the storm of public opinion they could not contend, and they should he careful that together with, the Corn law, many other things m ight not also be swept away. Capt. HAMILTON said lie should not feel that he had performed his duty to those who sent him to repre sent them in Parliament if he did not trespass for a short time on the attention of the House. He supposed that every Member who addressed the House on the subject would agree with him that the adoption of any mea sure with respect to the Corn-laws was a matter •of: vital importance to all classes. On the one hand, they had - the whole manufacturing interest of this country clamorous for a total repeal of the Corit-laws. On the other hand, there was a consider able party,. headed by the Noble Lord who opened the debate last night, who were in favour of a fixed duty on corn ; but they were in a minority compared with those who argued for a total repeal ; while he thought that he ;might state, without fear of contradiction, that -the agricultural body generally, and certainly that por tion of it which called itself Conservative, were in favour of the principle of a sliding scale.—(Hear, hear.) 'On the present occasion he' should not endeavour to. 'combat the arguments with which the Noble Lord had eprumeneed that debate in favour of a fixed duty, and against the measure of the Honourable Ba rtinet, and of those who followed the Noble Lord, had opposed the proposal of the Government. But he would confine himself more particularly to the scale of duties proposed by her Majesty's Government. He abstained from combating the arguments which had been made use of by Hon. Gentlemen opposite, either in favour of a fixed duty, or against any duty whatever, from a feeling that those arguments were unworthy the attention of Gentlemen in that House. Far from it. Those opinions were, entertained by too many men of high standing, and station, and attainments in this country, not to be entitled to the greatest respect, and to the earnest attention of every Member.—(Hear, hear.) Bet as, on a former occasion, he had expressed his conviction that the principle of a sliding scale must be maintained, and as he had not seen or heard anything since to induce him to alter that opinion, he thought lie should best consult the feelings of the house, as well as of those who had sent him to represent their interests in that House, if he confined himself to the consideration of the scale of duties proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet. Perhaps he might be allowed to state, that since the pre sent measure was brought forward by the Right Ho nourable Baronet, he (Captain Hamilton) had at tended an important meeting of the farmers, held 'at Aylesbury, on the subject of the Corn-laws, and the . proposed schem e o f th e G overnmen t. He (Captain Hamilton) was not the representative of the opinions of any body of men, however respec table that body might be ; but he thought it would be admitted that when a measure was brought forward in _Parliament which affected their interests, he (Captain Hamilton) might shortly state to the House the opinions of those gentlemen, more particularly as that meeting was called by the Agricultural Society of that county (Buckinghamshire). He would read to the House the resolution to which the meeting he had alluded had come to. It was as follows :—" That it is" . the opinion of this meeting that the farmer should be protected to the amount of 605., while the proposed scale of Sir Robert Peel extends that protection only to 555. They consider that at 555. the duty should be 205., so that, when the average price was 60s. the duty should be 155." The Noble Lord (Lord J. Russell) in his speech the other night, had said, as he (Captain Hamilton) un derstood him, that the proposed alteration in the scale would hart no effect but in making the measure the more stringeet. He wished the Noble Lord had been at the ; for meeting he attended composed bad conic to the conclusion that the effect , of . the Right lion. Baronet's measure would be to reduce .Itlte tanner's capital at least 20 per emit. They consi der,Al the proposed duty, between 555. and 605., not an • adequate protection. They liked the graduating scale of - the Right Hon. Baronet, but they did not like his figure thought they ought to have more protec liOn, and he ' (Captain Hamilton) concurred in the opinion. lie conceived they might have more pro tection without anr injury to the consumer. But when he stated this, be should say that those who attended the meetin g thought that the duty sh ould not be highes than 20s. T hose farmers also think that the duty proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet might be a protec tion to good land, but would fail to afford protec tion to heavy and clayey soils and inferior land. The question which he put, as their representative, was .whether the scale proposed by the lion. Baronet was or was not a sufficient protection. Now there had been a notice given to that House of an amendment to the scale or the Right Honourable Baronet. That scale certainly afforded a protection between the figures he had named from 555. to 605., which the scale of the Houourable Baronet did not; but then the Hon. Mem ber for North Lincoln commences his scale with 255. which in his opinion was decidedly objectionable. ectionable. He wished to be clearly under s t oo d As thinking that the scale of the Hon. Member fo r North' Lincoln was approved of as superior in that particular point of protection to the scale of the Right Honourable Baronet. If lie were speaking only - • behalf , on his own lie might give his Approval to the amendment .of the Hon. Member and his vote on the general ques eon to the Right lion. Baronet. He might take that ce acse, but it was not the course he intended to follow. H e NI not wish to take any indirect means of arriving at the esunplete end lie wished e ven t ua ll y to arr i ve at. He pre:creed at once taking that which he thought pre ferable on to great question as a whole, not looking at any particular part. After the meeting of Parliament, and .before he, or any Member not in the councils of her • Majesty; knew avhat was about to be proposed, h e ma d e it his duty to consult several gentlemen, who are prac tical ' farmers, as to the scale of duty which they thought would be a sufficient protection to th e British farmer. lie had an opportunity of seeing the stale, which was drawn up by Mr. Drews, and which he believed had been forwarded to the Right Hon. Baronet. 'that scale" he found, differed very little from the kale Aropesed by the Right Hon. B a ronet.—(Hear, hear.) t commenced with 525., but the gentleman who forwarded th at scale contended likewise that a cer tain -"xeu amount of duty ou ght to be maintained. 'Front the statement heliadneready made, it would be seen that there was but little difference between the scale shown to him and the scale of the Right Hon. Baronet; but in his (the Gallant Captain's) opinion, some point ought to be taken between 555. and 60s. However, he thought that the agriculture of thecountry was calledupon to make some such sacrifice to the trade and commerce of the country as that proposed.—(Laughter, and hear.) Hon. Gentlemen might laugh, but was 20 per cent. no sacrifice ? The agriculturists were eminent for their loyalty, and he was sure the appeal now madc to them would not be . made in vain. Therefore, although he thought. that the seheme of the lion. Member for Lincolnshire was, perhaps, more fair to the agricultural interest than that which had been proposed by the Right Hon. Baronet, yet he should not oppose the plan of the Right Hon. Baronet by supporting any amendment, because he felt satisfied that by taking such a course be should be 'inflicting an injury on those he wished to serve.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Honourable Baronet possessed information on the subject, which it could not be supposed was in the possession of any individual Member; and he (Cap tain Hamilton) felt that, placed in the situation in which the Right Hon. Baronet was, he could not avoid con ceding some such measure to the manufacturing inte rest. He (Captain Hamilton) did not deny the exist ence of distress in the manufacturing districts, but he emphatically denied that such distress was owing to the Corn-laws. Of course while distress existed, any increase in the price of provisions would tend to aggravate that distress, but he a g ain denied most emphatically that the Corn-laws had caused the distress. It had been caused by oVertrading, by machinery,' and by a variety of other causes, to which allusion had been made by the Right Hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury in bringing forward the question. With these views on the question he felt it his duty, not only as a Member of Parliament legislating for the whole country, but as the representative of his own particular constituency, whose interests were vitally affected by this question, to support the proposition of the Right lion. Baronet.—(Cheers.) Mr. CHILDERS congratulated the lion. Gentleman who had last spoken on having such placable consti tuents.—(A laugh.) The Hon. (sentleman admitted that the Government proposition was one which would mate rially affect their interests—that it was one to which they were opposed—that it was one of which he himself could not approve, and yet he said he would vote for it.—(Cheers and laughter.) He (Mr. Childers) had listened with great gratification to much of the speeches both of the Right lion. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, and of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Presi dent of the Board of Trade. There was one part parti cularly of the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet the First Lord of the Treasury, which would go to destroy several delusions which had previously existed throughout the country. He alluded more particularly to what the Right Hon. Gentleman had said as to the system of averages ; before that speech had been ut tered, he-had hardly ever met with any Member of the ConserVative party who had not said that the system of taking the averages must be altered, that they must be- taken from the sellers, and not from the buyers. lie (Mr. Childers) had since met with many Conserva tives, and they all agreed with the Right ilon. Baronet that the buyers, and not the sellers, ought to be the per sons to make the averages.—(A laugh.) But to, come to the immediate question before them, viz. the advan tage or disadvantage of the new scale.. He (Mr. Childers) could see very little advantage, as compared with the old one. He thought that the past principle of continuing the averages up to the higher prices of 705., 715., 725., and 735., would, lie feared, practically cause very little diminution of the prices at which corn would come into this country. He had looked carefully over the returns lately made to the House of the quantity of corn which had been entered during the last 20 years, and he thought that almost constantly it had been entered only when corn had reached a great price, or at least it had been entered at the higher price of duty when corn was lower, so as to be of little advantage to the consumer. He would try to explain his meaning on the subject. A certain quantity of corn at a duty ' es. Bd., Gs, Bd., and 2s. Bd. had been admitted, but '4 , been admitted ? Not when the prices were how han d luty was falling, which would have been rising an a relief to the -do "try, but when the prices were falling and the duty'w.:2 rising a ; at . e a c tii va ne s , . c con se,quently,,: when it ,was shoes=:,• 'the Additional enough -in the ccientik, and . bt „, the pi:ices supply would be of little advantage ; but st of corn were falling, and the duty rising very little, orn had been introduced. Look first, for example, at the 10s. Bd., from 1829 up to the present year ; the quantity introduced when the prices were rising and the duty falling was only 17,000 quarters,whilst there was imported during the same period, when prices were falling and the duty rising, no less than 789,000 quarters.—(Hear, hear.) Then if they took the 6s. Bd. duty they would find the same thing ; from the year 1839 up to the present ) ear the quantity of corn that had been admitted when prices were rising, and the duty falling, was only 30,000 quarters; whilst during the same period, when prices were falling, and the duty rising, no less a quantity than 1,892,000 quarters had been admitted.—(hear.) That must occur in the scheme proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman. Suppose a man had twenty thousand quarters of wheat at 60s. a quarter, he knew that for every shilling that it increased in price lie would on the entire of that quantity gain 1,000/. For instance, it was well known that the pressure generally occurred in this country in the summer seasons, before the harvests came in—the farmer knew the price, and what the duty would be, and whether he could afford to hold over that corn until summer ; therefore, the pro posed scheme was a direct inducement to speeulate—be sides he ( Mr.Cliilders)leared that the present state of duty would operate against the consumer just as much as the old regulation. Generally speaking, it would be linind, upon the best calculations, that unless they came down to 2s. Bd., or even one shilling, importation was not stopped. The prices of corn varied very much each year—sometimes they went up and again they fell during the same year, 'consequently creating , injury to the con sumer and to the producer alternately. That was one of the greatest injuries of the sliding scale.—(Hear, hear.) In the papers before the - House there were constant in stances of its having occurred, but he would only ad vert to a few of them. In the year 1838, the price, in the beginning of the year, was very low ; it ranged from 525. to 60s. It soon began to rise, and in August and September it was so high that the duty lowered to Is. Then there came in 1,200,000 quarters of wheat, and then the price sank rapidly. But in November it again rose, and on the 7th of December the price reached 755., and the duty was . again Is. So again the same thing occurred in 1840; the duty sank in the same way. Now he knew that it was an extraordinary instance that it should have reached a duty of Is. in September, and caused such great fluctuations and injury to the country. Such a state of things could not have occurred under any system but a sliding-scale. While on this subject he would make an allusion to a case which took place in 1841. In the month of August in that year, on the 27th of that month, the price rose to 765. a quarter. In September following 1,000,000 of quarters of wheat were brought into the country and the prices then rose again until on the 24th of September, when the duty had fallen to ls. ; but what was the priee ? it was only 635. ; the preceding week it was fils„ so that when corn was most wanted, none could come in in consequence of the prohi bitory duty, whereas, shortly afterwards the duty had fallen to Is. Two millions of quarters then came in. Now, he thought there had been on that occasion a pure loss to all parties. In the first place, it was clear that there was a loss to the consumer who had not received the corn at the low price at which it might have been received. There was also another party very much in jured, namely, the speculator. The Right Hon. Gen tleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, had said last night that the, speculators at that time had reaped immense profits. Now he understood quite the contrary, and that they had been perfectly ruined. He had been informed the other day at Wakefield that a quantity of that corn, introduced last October, remained there unsold and unsaleable, at any thing like the price that had been paid for it, because in October, when it had been brought in, the duty had been largely raised. He thought that was a pregnant instance of the ill-working of the sliding scale, and of the superiority of a .fixed duty.—(Hear.) But when lie stated that he was favourable to a fixed duty, he did not hesitate to say that in his mind that fixed duty should be only a step to a total repeal of the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear, from both sides of the House.) , lie viewed such a result as desirable for the .country upon many accounts ; and his only motive for not recommending the adoption of a fixed duty at preselit was, that he feared the panic was such that many might not be prepared for a sudden alteration. lie believed that in an average of years, after a repeal of the Corn-laws, prices would vary very little, if at all, from what they were under the p resen t system.—(Hear.) Ile was much strengthened in that opinion by the information afforded by the report of Mr. Meek. He confessed he felt considerably surprised that in the speeches from the other side of the House, lie had heard no mention made of the Report which afforded such a perfect account of the state of trade in foreign countries. He believed that Mr. Jacob had formerly been seen sent on a similar errand, and his exertions had met with a similar return. Hon. Gentlemen who sup ported the agricultural interest in the House observed at the time, that " the words were the words of Jacob, but the hands were the hands of Esau.",—(Laughter.) Such he imagined was probably the feeling entertained toward Mr. Meek ; and his evidence appeared to be con sidered very injurious to the cause of Honourable Gentlemen opposite. He found, from the return of Mr. Meeks, that in Rotterdam, where free trade prevailed, the average price of wheat was about 555., That was the statement of Mr. Meek. And, in his opinion, the average price at Ostend was about 50s. These prices were so near the English prices as to be quite astonishing. In rich countries, like Holland and England, where the population was so great, there must be a large demand for, corn. The Right Honourable Gentleman (the. Vice-President of the Board of Trade) had said that because two millions of quarters were imported from abroad, the English production would be reduced two millions. lie did not believe such would be the case.—(Hear, hear.) Was nothins , to be allowed for increased consumption ? (bear, hear.) He belieVed the surest means of increas ing the wealth of a country would be to increase its im ports.—(Hear.)' Another point of view, and it would ap pear to many a novel one, which he took of the pre sent Corn-law was, that the principle of monopoly which they had seen to be so injurious in all other cases would also operate injuriously against the farmers of the country.—(Hear, hear.) He believed if the Corn-laws were repealed the farmers would be more anxious than they were to improve the productive capabilities of their farms. He remembered with respect to the silk trade, that while it w;IS protected by monopoly, old and almost useless machinery was employed, but when the pro tection was lowered, machinery of a better d es cription was introduced.' He considered the same" result would be the consequence in their farming system if the Corn-laws were repealed, and he was the more strengthened in this opinion, because in ' Scotland, where the best system of farming prevailed, the agriculturists were not unfavourable to an alteration of . the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The causes of the superiority of the Scotch farms, were their great extent, and the system of leases. Under the system which prevailed in this country, a farmer would not however good might be his landlord, lay out his money in the same manner as he would if he had the farm upon lease. A Scotch friend had told him of an instance in which a farmer who had the remainder of the lease of a farm of which the rent was 700/. a year. He had laid out 7,000/. in improve ments, and there were more improvements required, which would cost about 3,000/. On the landlord consent ing to extend the lease for five years, the farmer made that additional outlay. He believed if agriculture were unprotected, both landlord and farmer would endeavour to effect such improvements, and that the result would be most beneficial to the country. He did not advocate the repeal of the Corn-laws on the ground which was relied upon by the delegates of the Anti- Corn-law Conference, or because he believed that it would, to any great extent, reduce the price of corn ; but he advocated, the repeal of those laws, because he believed they formed .a great obstacle to free trade all over the world. He opposed those laws •on the principles of the soundest political economy, and because he was for removing all restrictions on the freedom of trade. The Right Hon. Baronet had indeed a sufficient majority to carry his measure ; but how long would that majority last ? He predicted that. it would last only till the next dissolution. He trusted, and believed, that shortly the time would ar rive when England, instead of trusting to her Navigation laws and Corn-laws, and to systems of protection and restriction, would trust to her insular situation, her commerce, her water-mills, her steam-mills, her mind, and her freedom.—(Cheers.) Captain RO US, who was at first indistinct and in audible, was understood to say, that as this was a popu larity question, he had made up his mind from the mo ment he set foot in the House that he would speak out upon it.—(" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) There were three measures to choose between. There was the proposition of the Right Hon. Baronet, that of the Noble Lord, and of the lion. Member for Wolverhampton, which was in petto.—(A laugh.) Now if Honourable Gentlemen oppoette supported the former proposition of the Noble Lord, which implied that agriculture ought to have some protection, they would not keep their words—they would not be the high-minded gentle men he hid always thought them.—(Hear, hear.) They would be good for neither God nor Devil—(Hear, and laughter)—if they voted for the motion of the Hon. Member for Wolverhaniptons—(Tory cheers.) There was a Noble Lord in the other House of Parliament who never made but one mistake in his life, and that was when he accepted office.—(A laugh.) That Noble Lord said that whoever proposed an alteration of the sliding scale would be only fit for Bedlam. Now in that, he was happy to agree with the Noble Lord.—(Cheers and a laugh.) For his part, he had made up his mind that whenever God gave us a fixed succession of good harvests, he would consent to a fixed duty. But as long as our harvests were variable, it wou!d be necessary to have a variable duty.—(Cheers.) The gentlemen who sent him to Parliament were satis fied with the measure proposed by the Right Hon. Ba ronet, because they thought that it was framed on the principle of live and let live, and on a due consideration of the interests of the farmers, manufacturers, and working classes. A French diplomatist said words were given to man to conceal his thoughts, and this would appear to be true if we referred to the speeches of the Anti-Corn law party, who talk with such anxiety of saving 2(1. upon every quartern loaf for the working man ; but to whom would this twopence go ? Would it be into the pockets of the master or of the workman ? (Hear, hear.) Now be would refer to the wages in other countries where food was cheap. He did not mean the United States, or our new colonies, which were new countries, and where the value of labour was ex ceedingly high ; but take India, where there were 60,000 of our fellow-subjects, and the wages of labour were 2d. a clay. In the Valle de Plass the labourer had 10s. it month, out of which he had to feed, clothe, and lode himself. Look to France, where so many English fami lies lived —not for cheap bread, but for. cheap wages, cheap: ediicatien, and cheap horses ; - and - it was• thiongh" . " the Continent, "as in France. In 1795, mechanics earned 3s. a-day, and their labourers Is. Bd. ; the price of corn then was 725. I Id. ; in 1812, when corn was 1225., the wages were the same as they are at ,present. Bricklayers, carpenters, joiners, stonemasons, plumbers, painters, glaziers,'BMi'Orned..ss.' fora day of ten hours; coachmakers made from 345. to 608. a week ; bootmakers from 365. to Ws.; tailors from 365. to 425., when they have plenty of work,Did the House imagine that these men, who earned from 30s. to 60s. - a-week, eared whether they paid a penny more or a penny less for the quartern loaf, so long as they had plenty of work ?—(Hear.) Take one of the stonemasons—they had their 21b. of rump steak, two pots of porter, and a quartern of gin to keep them warm, in a day; but if the plan which Hon. Gentlemen opposite proposed were to come into operation, they Would have no beef, no beer, and no gin, but bread and onions and a good suck at the pump.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) The London tradesmen; now that rents are 30 per cent. higher than they were thirty or forty years ago, that they pay higher wages, and that articles which they sell still remain at pretty nearly the ;same price , were in a worse situation, he thought, than any other class ; but if they destroyed the agriculturists they would destroy the trades men at the same time, because the agriculturists were their best customers.—(Hear,, hear.) He would go higher; lie would go to the merchant. He (Capt.Rous) Was a captain and shipowner ; if lie went to Hamburgh he could build a Alp fin' 2,0001., which at Hull or Liver pool would cost Win a,riooL, because at Hamburgli a shipwright's wages were only Is. Bd, a day, whilst a shipwright's wages in England were ss. The Hamburgh man lived upon a crust of bread—his friends in England liked to have beefsteaks. Then after the ship was rigged at Hamburgh, he could get Prussians, Swedes, and Norwegians, all good seamen, for 15s. a month and rations, which would not cost more than 3d. per diem per marl ; but if he came to England his good fellows would want a pound of pork or of beef, which would cost him is. a day, and besides that, they would not go to sea under forty shillings a month ; that made an odds of 70s. to 225. 6d. against the English crew. The House, he was sure, must agree with him then that he must be a very clever Captain if he could pay his way against the Hamburgh Captain. The stone-masons employed at the Houses of Parlia ment every one of them got five shillings a-day, and if free trade was established, what would there he to prevent three hundred Prussians, for instance, from being brought over in their stead ?—Hear, hear.) He (Captain Rous) was a practical man, and clearly foresaw the effects of the measures advocated by Hon. Gentlemen opposite. If free trade was established, first, there would be no specie in the banks—(Hear, hear)—and, next, the artificers and mechanics who are now employed at ss. a day in London, and elsewhere in England, would not get half that a mount of wages if free trade was established. Hon. Gentlemen on the opposite side were very fond of draw ing comparisons between this country and foreign coun tries ; they had frequently referred to their relations with America, but he (Ctipt. R.) would ask them to look at their Ameriean friends. It was true they borrowed money, in England, but hoie much interest did they pay for it ? —(Hear, and laughter.) Their American friends sent large orders to Liverpool and London, but how much of those orders were paid ? It was not uncommon for them (the Americans) to come over to this co untry and order ' ,0001. wortliof goods from persons first setting up in trade, one half of which was to be paid in hard - cash, and the other half afterwards ; but there was no instance on record when that other half was ever paid.—(Hear, hear.) He would not troub!e the House further, he would merely say to his Right Ho nourable Friend (Sir Robert Peel) that if he would only go in the middle course , and not m i nd either the murmurs of the high aristocracy, or the complaints of a de luded people, that Right Hon. Gentleman must re main In the high position he now occupied —(Cheers.) He should not shift out of his course like a man with one leg in the grave and the other out—(Laughter) —but he should adhere to the interests of the country, and care for nothing so long am he took care of her and himself.—(Laughter, and Hear, hear.) Mr. WILLIAMS rose amidst cries of a " New Mem ber." He said he should certainly comply with the call of the House, but that he had heard the Honourable Gentleman before ; he could not, therefore, consider him in the light in which he seemed to be viewed by the House.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. W.) felt some what different from a very large number of the people of this country, who never expected any goad from the present Government. He t i ed expected that the Right Honourable Gentleman -at the head of her Majesty's Government would have tfi.hen a statesman-like view of the present difficulties in which the trade and commerce of this coun try were implicated. He (Mr. W.) had expected that the Right Hon. Baronet having on a former occasion stated in that House that he considered the trade and uanufactures of this country to be the foundation of its strength, power, and greatness, he would have intro duced into this measure, which so deeply affected its interests, something that would afford relief, He (Mr. Williams) taught that the Government were chargeable with great blame in placing in her Majesty's mouth words which had been the means of raising the expectations of the country, but only had the effect of creating great disappointment. He considered that tp t law. practical t i ile Na pp , Ih r oeenffoetschl effect, now en before notschen th we e House would means different p a irne l s a iet r ns ge surplus of corn would be in th e h an d s orwrpooeturnladttihon bee of foreign merchants, and arconsiderable quantity would ouno l t a iwin,detro import large quantiti es of corn to this country. be introduced into this countr y . In fact inducements w ould be held out by the broker and factor in thi s t o a u n n d t ry a to t the r s f t o r e t i h g e n T o r r c k h i a n n g t , wofhothuewould new ' The consequence would be - th at b y the low price super induced by the great abundance in the market, the foreign producer would sustain a great kiss, and, taught by his experi ence, in that instance, the operation. he would be careful not to repeat I lis impression was that the new la w and the old one in their present working would. be found,d to be pretty much on a par. He was in hopes from the manner in which the question had been introduced into her Majesty's speech that the Right Hon. Bart. would hare been in duced to alter his determination to abide by the slidiß scale. He considered that the sliding scale was a system of levying duties on foreign corn most injurious to every.in terest of the country, except Jiggled proprietors.—( l . l fti!ry hear.) He believed it would be the interest' of he people of this country, rather than be subjeeto to the operation of the sliding scale, to pay a duty of * ,g9l. quarter to the landed proprietors for every quarterof corn they used.—(Hear, hear.) They would -'snve a vast deal of wealth by it. They would then know the extent of their loss, but he would venture to THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNING, FEBRUARY 16, larz. say that no human being could ca l cu l a t e th e l oss w hi c h the country sustained in consequence of the opera tion of the sliding scale. During the last four years there bad been nearly ten millions of quarten- of corn-purchased for this country. Immediately on the demand, the corn-dealers rushed to the nearest market, and purchased corn at any price for which it could be obtained, especially when it was seen that within a certain period the sliding scale would reduce the duty to ls. In August, 1838, he saw a re markable illustration of this. He happened to be at Hamburgh, on his way to the north of Germany, and the instant he arrived he was asked by an English gentleman as to the state of the weather and the crops in England, at the time he (Mr. Williams) left. This gentleman was the representative of large London corn dealers, who was sent out to purchase corn in llamburgh, under the expectation that there would be a failure in the crops in England in 1838. This gentleman then went to the large holders of corn, and offered them the same prices which they had agreed to take five days before—( Hear, hear)—but not a quarter would they sell, without a considerah4 advance upon that price. No doubt there had been a great evil in the Corn-laws, by en hancing the price of the bread of the working man, but It had caused them much more suffering by depriving him of employ ment, through the derangement of the currency, and the inter ruption of commerce.—( Hear, hear). As the smallest calcu htion in the last fo it years, 15,000,0001. in bullion had been sent out of the country to pay for corn—(Hear)—and in those years we had paid full fifty or fifty-five per cent. more than if we had traded upon the fixed duty.—( Hear, bear.) With the • fixed duty we could be supplied from the western coast of America in years of deficiency, which could never be the case whilst there was the sliding-scale.—( Hear, hear.) There was another subject which the present system affected very mate rially. In getting into the foreign market in a hurry for our corn, it becomes r.ecessary to employ foreign shipping— (Hear, hear, hear)—for we have no opportunity of em plo)ing our own; for if a merchant happenerl to have one of his own ships on the port to which he goes for corn, and if she is not ready to siil at once, he cannot wait even a day, but must charter the first foreign vessel he finds ready to sail, or otherwise he would surely arrive too late for the low duty,—( Hear.) The slid ing scale appeared to him in every point of view to be most injurious to every interest except the landowners. The Right Hon. Baronet bad stated one most astonishing proposition. He had stated that it was a common doctrine with many per sons in bringing accusations against the Corn-laws to say that they laid a tax on corn, which was paid by the consumer to the producer of corn ; but thathe (Sir R. Peel) denied that doctrine. He (Mr. Williams) understood that Right Hon. Batt. denied that proposition, &Ad was astonished to hear him say so. He should like to 'know what object the Right Hon. Bart. could have in desiring to keep the price of corn up to from 545. to 565., unless it were to protect the landed interest. The Hon. Member for Aylesbury had said the object of the Corn-laws was to protect the landed interest by giving them higherprices than they could otherwise obtain, and he would ask what was a duty imposed for the purpose of giving the landed interest higher prices, but a tax paid to them by the consumers, and who were the consumers, the millions r f the working classes of this country, and who derived the benefit of it ? The rich land owners ; therefore, the tax was a direct tax, as direct a tax as the house-tax, and it was taken out of the pockets of the consumers, and put into the pockets of the aris tocratical landowner. The Right Hon. Baronet had with a great deal of pomp and form, introduced a number of statistical details into his speech relative to the comparative consump tion of the necessaries of life in Prussia and in England by the working classes. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated that the autholity from which he had derived his information was unquestionable, and that it was believed means existed of as certaining exactly the statement which he had established. Sir ROBERT PEEL—I said that Dr. Bowring's report stated that there existed means of arriving at accurate statis tical details. Mr. W. WILLIAMS was aware that the Right Honourable Baronet had said so, but the Right Hon. Baronet had further said, as from himself, that it was believed that there existed means of ascertaining exactly the accuracy of those statistical details. He took the words down at the time ; but he would only take those words which the Right Hon. Baronet ad mitted. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated upon the au thority of those statistics, that in Prussia they consumed of meat 351bs. a y7ear each person, and that in this country each person consumed 50Ibs. Another Gentleman, however had estimated the consumption at 100 lbs. Now, taking the mea t a t 7d. a lb., it wou ld ma k e a diff eren ce of consumption to the amount of 12,000,000 lbs. Some vntleman had stated that the con sumption of wheat by each individual, was one quarter annu ally, while others stated it at two quarters. Supposing this to apply to the consumption in England and Wales, and sup posing the price to be 515., in the article of bread alone there would be b consumption to the amount `of 12,000,000 lbs., and if that was applied to- the United Kingdom, it would be up wards of 50,000,0001b5. Now, the next article to which the Right Hon. Baronet had referred was woollen cloth. That sag an article that was es'entially necessary. He had stated that in Prussia the consumption was two ells each poison. '1 hese were the great and important illustrations given 4y,the Right Hoe:s . S.Aardridts.. as-.pt sof OtAhe superior - OT the 'people of England •as compared with Prussia. The Right Hon. Baronet had stated the relative proportion of con sumption in this country, upon the authority of two gentlemen wham he considered well informed upon the subject; but he would put it to the Right Hon. Baronet whether there was in reality any means of arriving at a correct estimate upon the matter. He would ask the Right Hon. Baronet if he had any idea of the average yearly consumption of his own family ? He would ask any Hon. Member in that House if he knew the average of his own consumption, or of that of his next door neighbour ? He believed that any Hon. Member would reply to the question in the negative ; and the Right Hon. Bart. must have been such in need of arguments when he had recourse to statements of such a nature. He (Mr. Williams) had travelled through many parts of Prussia, and he believed from his own observation that the working-classes there were in a better condition than the working-classes in thiscountry. He had reason to believe that the condition of .the working classes in Switzerland:and in France was still better than in Prussia. The Right Hon. Gentleman had referred to the United States, and stated that one of the causes of the great depression which had of late prevailed in the trade of this country, was the derangement in the monetary affairs of the United States. Now he (Mr. Williams) had been in the United States at the period referred to by the Right Hon. Baronet, and he had seen no evidence there of distress of any kind ; the people Were well fed . and well clothed, and there was ne human being who seemed to suffer from povet ty But he, in common with every Englishman who visited that part of the country, could not but fesl regret when they saw the 3,000 newspapers pul.lished there daily, containing some accounts of the awful distress existing amongst the working classes in this country, and drawing a comparison between the misery and destitution of the people here and the happy con n supplanted us in their own us to a considerable dition of the people of the United States. H e saw th ere a m o st extraordinary advancement in the st a t e o f th e i r manufac tur market, es* They bt ex tent in neutral markets. Three millions, six h un d re d thousand dollars, wor t h of manuafactured goods had been exported, during the jig year, to the U n it e d St a t es . u they had knadt only beaten Hear, h ear .) He "acted the Right Honourable Baronet would have regarded the rising condition, which was advancing in the United States, as producing an impression on the mind of the working-classes of this country. They might depend upon it, that unless the working-classes in this country were relieved of some of their burdens, our manufacturing trade must decline. He could see no possibility of it maintain ing its stand, unless by that means. He trusted the admis sion of corn free from duty would, to a great extent, relieve the depression on manufantutine and commercial inte rests ; but he believed that more must be done for the people, and that they must be considerably relieved from the burden of taxation.—( Hear, hear.) He could not look back at the state of Switzerland and the United States seven years ago, and look forward seven years to come, but with great alarm for the manufactures of this country. Though some said it was too late to set about any measure, he believed that measures might be adopted yet to afford substantial relief to the manu facturing population, whereby they might recover and sustain their former position. They neither want skill nor in dustry.—(Hear, hear, hear.) No people excelled them in those qualities, but they could not contend with the Swiss people. who paid scarce any taxes, whil,t their taxes were so immense. He certainly did expect that the Right Hon. Baronet would have regarded the present distressed condition of our manufacturing and commercial men with a feeling very different to that which he had manifested in his proposi tion, lie could not help thinking that the aristocracy of this country, for whose benefit the.e lass were maintained, were eemmitt,ng a great mjustice. The people of this country had regarded the aristocracy with every feeling of moderation and respect. Now they began to examine into the grounds of their claims to tax the rest of the community. Wh.t did the middle classes say of the aristocracy—those middle classes who had alwa a teen their shield, and who would continue to be their shi e ld, if they d;d not persist in maintaining a system of oppression and injustice ? 'I hey said that the aristocracy who thus taxed them were superior to them neither physically nor mentally, neither in virtue nor in morals; and they asked, what right had they, in the midst of luxury and splendour. to tax the food of the people ? He believed that the time was fast approaching, and he did not say it to taunt that class, he had no such feeling towards them , but he believed the time was fast approaching, when, if they continued to pursue this course of injustice towards the middleand working-classes, their pre tensions would be very inconveniently enquired into by those classes of this country. If they depended on the military, the police, and the constabulary, for their suppot t, they would not be able to maintain that tax. If they placed themselves in hostile opposition to the peple, how they expect the contest would end ?—( Hear, hear.) Let them look to the condition of France. No aristocracy could be; prouder, or have enjoyed greater privileges than did the aristocracy of France, They pursued the same course in levying oppressive taxation on the people, but what Was the result? We need not aristocrat There is nothing say what is the end of that at hear ) There was a feeling like being wise in time.—(Hear, would' not allow them to suffer abroad among the people that He would vote for the proposition oppression.—( Hear, hear.) of the:Noble Lord the Member, for London, because he thought a fitted duty preferable to a slid in g scale; at the same time that d would vote for the propo sition of the Hon. Mamba for he objected to all taxes on food, an Wolverhampton as the only °se country, and which he be which would give satisfaction the.land.—( Cheers. ) lieved ought to be the law of the hat having taken a deep Mr. ORNISBY GORE said thaw a it his utmost attention terest in the present question, hesatavnce of an able and honest during the recess, arid with the d as to ascertain exactly to a fraction neighbour of his he was enabled to of 69 individuals, all of the consumption of 13 families, immediateconsisting ne ighbourhood. those la bourersconthem labouring in his tant em ployment, and h e f oun d were all of them in bushelss and a small fraction, im perialtheir consumption to be eight nnum_ that was one qu ar t er . measure, per head p er The consumption by each i ndividual , takin g the aver age at 565. 9d., the measure would be e ight bushels for twelve months, which would be Is. 01. a head per meek. The duty amounted to to ss. 9 1 4 d., which would be mod. a month er ld. a week on each, and this was the a mount that the party op posits cried out was destroying the working man. But those were too wise to believe this st atem. nt, though he would grant the party o;•posite had is violent plac ar ds and established sues. money in a very extraordinary a violent league, and had raised five farthings a week, but manner. Not on account of IbeSe 1 k h • I d t o sia e t e and to its for party . p_urpcses, they desire r conduct was regarded he centre. Now to show how the man. would refer to a letter he had received from a working letter, but of this he stated that He knew nothing of the author f em ployment, and that the majo rity was a working man out go aware that the Corn-laws had ray of his class were perfectly nothing to do with their misery. The Hon. Member th en rea d • vised that the ext rac t h e h a d a ll u ded to, in w hich the writer ad the w or ki ng men s h ou ld be consulted, and they mould stat e that the grea t an d p r imary cause of all their distress had re mained s t a te that neither the Cor n -l aws , unn o ti ce d; they would nor the c urrency , nor the . banks affected them, chile th e i r labour rema i ne d un t ouc hed ; but that any power that s h o uld destroy their l a bour, would destr o y them likewise. They knew that a ll their distress was to be attributed to the unlimit e d ex tension of mae hi ttev y, Which during the last two years, h a d thrown thousands of persons ef.onnployment ; that the same cause was extending, and, unless cheatitt i Legislative enact ments, would end in bringing down . ruin ;4* Hon looter zoiXO,yere so anxious for its e xtension. The then pie the same document) a com ynderstood from _ putation of ate lignd labour that would have been re quired to supply the 1111118 quantit power-loom employing only two men to attend to it. He would not trouble the House with any arguments upon this letter. He (Mr. Ormsby Gore) had risen in consequence of the challenge given by the Hon. Member opposite, ant in con sequence of his (Mr. 0. Gore) having in the year 1840 gone at considerable length into the question of the Corn-laws, and therefore he thought he ought not to remain perfectly silent. The questioa had been properly divided by the Hon. and Gal lant Member for Westminster into three parts, a fixed duty one, a sliding scale, and no duty at all the other. What he (Mr. 0. Gore) stated two years ago, he was prepared to carry out at that moment. He was strengthened in that opinion very considerably by what he had seen and heard since the commencement of the debate, and from what had fallen from the Noble Lord the Member for Lon don, and the Honourable Member for Bolton. He (Mr. Ormsby Gore) gave credit to the Hon. Member for Wolverhampton for his honest, straightforward, and English manlike conduct in coming forward for a total repeal of these laws.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He (Mr. Villiers) felt that it was to the interest of the country, and therefore he had brought it forward in a manly and straightforward manner. But when he (Mr. Ormsby Gore) heard the Noble Lord com ing forward for a fixed duty, he could not give him credit for the same motives, feeling convinced, as he did, that it was im praLticable. He, therefore, should denounce the measure of a fixed duty, as not being that straightforward, honest, and open system upon which legislation should be founded. He be lieved the system was founded on deceit, and he should have thought that the division of last year would have set it to rest in the tomb of its ancestors; and he hoped that a division on this motion would be such, that it would put it to rest for ever. He was certain that if it was passed into a law, those clamorous for an alteration in the present system, would then become clamorous for a total repeal. With regard to a repeal of the duty altogether, he should rather support that than a fixed duty. But they must recollect that the home trade took two-thirds of the manufactures of the kingdom, and if they stroved the agriculturists, they must then be dependent upon foreigners for the sale of their manufactures. He did not believe that the labouring classes of this country were quite so stultified, as to give up their ready money prices at home for what they might get elsewhere. He would have another opportunity of entering into the subject when the Hon. Member brought forward his amendment, and he should therefore not trouble the House further. Mr. WARD said they were very much indebted to the Hon. Member who had just addressed the House for setting at rest a question upon which there was very great differen ce o opinion, both in that House and in the country; namely, the precise amount of protection the gentlemen for whose benefit the Corn laws were instituted, received. The Hon. Member had said that he had risen to address the House in answer to a challenge from the Hon. Member for Coventry. He had told them that the question of the Corn-laws and the duty they imposed upon the community were things not worth con sidering, and that the amount of consumption of each indivi dual was. He ( Mr. Ward) did not understand the Hon. Member in his first statement, although he was perfectly in telligible afterwards. He stated that the consumption for each individual was eight bushels per annum, and that the amount of duty was ss. 9d. per head per annum, which, in a family of five individuals, was 335. for the family, making for the whole population, proved to be about 25,000,000, something like 5,000,000!. per annum, which were the taxes levied and sus tained by the sliding scale upon the working people. For this admission the country could not but be grateful, but he (Mr. Ward) dared say that the Right Hon. Baronet would not be obliged to him at all for the admission, but the admission was in his own figures. Mr. ORMSBY GORE—No, no. I said ss. 9d. a head. Mr. W A RD—Five shillings and ninepence was for a family of five or six, about 335. while for the whole population it amounted to somewhere about 5,000,000/. in good round num bers. He (Mr. Ward) was not responsible for the Hon. Gentleman figures, but they were his own admissions, and therefore he (Mr. Ward) was entitled to suppose that the Hon. Gentleman meant a poll-tax to be levied on every person not a landowner, and which, when levied, the Hon. Member told them was not worth contending for. The Hon. Member said that that agitation, was a popularity cry and a mere party question, amongst 3 -4ths of the population ; and then he brought in a letter from a workingman who said he did not consider that the depression arose from the Corr.. laws, but was mainly owing to the mischiefs produced by machinery. Now upon that matter, lie was as much at issue with the Right Hon. Baronet, as he was with them. He had heard several gentlemen, and particularly a Noble Lord eppe t site cheering the most violent passages in that speech with which the debate had been closed the night before. He alluded to the speech of the I-lon. Member for Knaresborough—a speech replete with pas sion, and devoid of all that calmness which should attend dis. cussion. In that speech all the rules of Parliament had been transgressed, a speech in which the question was changed to one of mere personality. The attack was made from that (the Ministerial side of the House), and not from those who were agitating. The charges in that speech were of a most marked character. But to return ; the Hon. Gentleman . who had spoken last bad said that there were three questions before the House, or that there were three divisions of one question—a fixed (fury ; the sliding scale; and no duty at all. Now he ( Mr. Ward) denied that that was a correct statement of the questioe. There were a great many opinions upon this sub ject., and he (Mr. Ward) must confess that there had been a ',emit-deal "Of'thisrepresentatioli de 'to the question the Noble Lord had submitted to the House. They were not assembled to decide a fixed duty or a sliding scale. They were not called upon to give an opinion upon the Bs. duty or a sliding scale. The Noble Lord near him had never mentioned an Bs. duty as part of his proposition.—( Laughter from the Ministe rial benches.) He hadnever mentioned an Bs. duty in any oart of the proposition which he had submitted to the House. 'What the Noble Lord had stated was plainly this, that what. ever peculiar burthens the agriculturist sustained, for these burthens he was willinglto give compensation. They were not called upon to name any extent of protection. He (Mr. Ward) had taken the liberty of giving notice last session, and he should take an early opportunity of doing so again, of his intention to move for a Committee to inquire what were the peculiar burthens agriculturists were subject to in this country. —(4' Hear, hear," and cheers)—and whether there were any peculiar burthens at all.—(Loud cheers.) He did not intend to enter into the question of those burthens till after that 'no tion. (Lord Stanley made some remarks across the table, which were inaudible.) The Noble Lord would admit with him (Mr. Ward) that it was laudable to endeavour to remove any buithens upon trade; and with respect to the trade in corn, they must all acknowledge the endeavours of the Noble Lord (J. Russell). He (Lord J. Russell) had acquitted himself with peculiar credit last night, in recommending a iixed duty in preference to a sliding scale. His (Mr. Ward's) conviction was, that the time for a fixed duty was rapidly pass ing away. It was passing away in the way in which every thing passed away, when put into the balance of great party questions. In these great questions great mistakes wet e fre• quently committed, and the public were benefited by it. It was thus that you gave us the Reform Bill. Had a consti tuency been given to Birmingham when it was first demanded. most likely the Reform Bill would never have been carried. It was a great mistake of the Right Honourable Ba ronet, in proposing his scale ; for, as in 1331, it would most likely be the means of giving the people of this country a total repeal of all laws restricting the free importation of food, because the landowners, when the) had the opportunity, did not choose to accept the plan which I would have given them an adequate protection. Ile (Mr. Ward) was very well aware that after the discussion of this subject they should have Birmingham over again. He was sorry to see this agitation on that great question.—(Laughter from the Ministerial Benches.) Hon. Gentlemen seemed to think that he had an interest in every species of agitation when he had not, for he did not like agitation. He came 1 down to that House on Wednesday, he admitted, with a very foolish faith in the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, for he thought it was probable that he was going to make a proposi tion to that House which would settle the question for years to come.—( Hear.) It was not his (Mr. Ward's) fault if the Right Honourable Baronet had disappointed him. He (Mr. Ward) was not pledged to extreme measures by his constituents. His constituents had sent up a petition to that House, which had been presented that day, bearing a large number of signatures, but he was perfectly free to take any course he pleased, and his hope had been that the Right Hon. Baronet would have made a proposition which he (Mr. Ward) might have thought would have proved an alleviation of the dis treses of the country. When. they talked of having the pri• vilege of protection enjoyed by one particular class in the coun try, they must have some very strong p iblic grounds to go upon. They were not to say, as had been said by the Vice President of the Board of Trade yesterday, that because protection existed 140 y ears, that they were to give a protection of 20s. per quarter on wheat. He (the Vice-President of the Board of Trade) went to show that the sliding scale was a great security against fluctuation of prices, and tried to prove it by the example of Prussia, where be said the prices of corn frequently ranged higher than in this country. He (Mr. Ward) had referred to the work of Mr. Wilson, an authority quoted by the Right Hors. Vice-President of the Board of Trade, from which he had learned much, and he went along with him entirely in his argument. He (Mr. Ward) thought that the Corn-laws, if not the sole cause, had been the principal cause of fluctuation. He thought the Legislature held out to the farmers of Eng land hopes which were perfectly impossible the Legislature could realize. He thought the farmer had gone on upon falla cious suppositions; they had brought into cultivation land which never should have been cultivated ; they had sown guineas and reaped shillings, and, mainly, to their success of competi tion, and bad legislation, was to be attributed the excessive produce of certain years, and this was the opinion of Mr. Wilson. He would read a few extracts from the work of Mr. Wilson. The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from the work which stated the opinion of the writer, that the farmers )ver -cultivated their land from the fallacious hopes held out by the Legislature of high prices. These high prices immediately led to large importations of Foreign corn ; and thus the foreigner took almost the entire oenefit of the rise in our prices. Now, he (Me. Ward) went along with Mr. Wilson, in the whole of that argument. There %v.'s a false stimulus to the farmer. and no modification of the sliding scale could remedy the evil, though hopes were held out to the farmers which never could be expected to be realised; for, as the Right Hon. Baronet had justly observed, his plan of the Corn-laws was not for the purpose of preventing prices rom ranging from 735. to 365. The Right Hon. Baronet adopted a well-known principle in mechanics; he did not waste his power.—(Laughter) He had found now, after the experience of 1815, a great deal of power was wasted in the former Bill—that 38s. was like putting a steam engine of forty horse power where a steam engine of five-horse power was sufficient. Thirty-eight shillings, it was well known, never could be realised. The Right Hon. Baronet had said it was luite useless to ask more than 205., which was a perfectly na tural feeling, for he knew very well that it was useless to waste power.—( Cries of " Hear, hear," cheers, and laughter. ) Two millions quarters of corn was the very utmost that could be got from the whole of Europe; for instance, upon a calcu lation of the exports of the three principal exporting towns upon the continent—namely, Hamburgh, Stettin, and Dant zic— It would be found that Hamburgh exported three hundred and fifty thousand quarters of corn last year. Stetin, 250,000 quarters, and Dantzic, 315,000 quarters, all at an average price of 40s. per quarter ; then, if the freight were added, it would increase it by four or five shillings, so that it was per fectly obvious it could not be had, at the very lowest rate, at less than 45s a quarter ; that was according to Mr. Meek's calcula tions, and it should be recollected that Mr. Meek was the Right Hon. Gentleman's own agent, and that the Right Hon. Gentleman relied upon those calculations. Lord STANLEY—Oh, no, no I _ _ Mr. WARD had given the figures as they were in Mr. Meek's report, and he believed they were correct, they showed clearly that no quantity of foreign wheat, to any consi derable amount, could be introduced into the English markets if a high duty was imposed. The fact was, that the moment the corn in the home markets arrived at a certain price, the els. duty of last year would just have done what the Right Hon. Baronet now professed to do.—( Hear, hear.) A duty of 103. would bring the price of foreign wheat up to 555. a quarter ; but, instead of that, the duty upon wheat, whenever the ave rage price was 545. a quarter (the present price which it was proposed to maintain), was 183. ; when it was 60s. a quarter, then the duty was 12s. ; so that it must get beyond 515., be for the miserable advantage of Is. could be had upon the quar ter. The Right Hon. Gentleman jenied that he (Mr.ward) had quoted Mr. Meek's figures correctly.—( Hear, hear, from Sir R. Peel). lie believed the average price of 40s. a quit.- ter in the foreign markets, which was stated by Mr. Meek, was only when there was stagnation in the maric.etp the first indication of a bad season or a bad market in this country always had thp effect of raising the average prices of the foreign markets.—(Heir; hear.) After tbi; eight ;killing point was attained, there was in his (Mr. Ward's) opi nion an improvement in the proposed scheme.—(Cheers from , the Ministerial benches.) He freely admitted that he liked that part of the scheme, and he was hound to sa y h e lik e d i t much better than the proposition of his Noble Friend (Lord John Russell) last year—( Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches, and counter cheers) —because the Noble Lord allowed t himself to be foiled by the plans so ably and so judici ous ly laid for him by the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite.-T(Laugh : ter and cheers.) The Noble Lord placed himself in I difficulties, out of which he should now get as well as he could. He placed himself in a position with respect to that , question, in which he ( Mr. Ward) begged to state he would I not stand with the Noble Lord.—( Loud cheers and counter cheers.) At the same time he agreed entirely with the . Noble Lord upon the general principles which he developed in the proposition, which he had last year brought forward. In all those prineiples he (Mr. Ward) begged to state he most cor dially concurred—( Cheers from the opposition)—but he con ceived that the Right Hon. Baronet's scheme was a bad scheme, and founded uponhad principles. All sliding scales produced the same unfavourable results. He thought that if the fixed duty was not made too high there could be a regulation upon which corn could be had always at a fair price and never rise too high. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, that at all events his scheme would maintain the price of corn at a certain price. New, he (Mr. Wood) had taken an extract of the duties for four years, and found that a variable duty was paid. I Is. a quarter duty was paid on corn in 1833 ; 19s. in 1834 on 263,000 quarters; 14s. in 1636 on 932,0.'0 quarters; and 28s. in 1837 for 210,000 quarters. Why was that? Because corn had then become such a drug in all the continental markets, that they could afford to pay any amount of duty, if they could only dispose of it—( Hear, hear)—but it was hi 3 opinion, that if this country had a regular supply of corn, it would never have to pay such a sum as would w. rrant an over supply of foreign corn. He would ask the Housa to consider what the effects of the present system were, and what their effects had been upon this country ? They all knew the diss tress that existed ; he considered it impossible totreat that sub ject so lightly as the Hon. Member for Knaresboroughhaddone. —( Hear.) It was admitted upon all sides, that the country was placed in the greatest misery and distress. The Honour able Member for Leeds, who had seconded the address to her Majesty, had candidly admitted it, and made the most feeling confession of the fact. That Hon. Gentleman stated that he had received accounts of the existing state of distress from all parts of the country, and that he firmly believed there was no exaggeration in those accounts ; besides, there were many Members in that House ready to to lift , them, if necessary— ( Hear, hear)—Henourable Members from all parts of the country, and connected with almost every branch of trade, and every large manufacturing depot in the country. They were all aware of the distress prevailing in Leeds, in Glasgow, Paisley, Bolton, Nottingham, and several other places ; from all ,branches of industry the same stories of distress had come.--( Hear, hear.) As to Sheffield, the people we e better off there than in many rther places. That was owing to local circumstances, and even there the privations of the people were so great that it was impossible for them to contend against the incubus which had been cast apon them by thepresent Corn laws.—(Hear,- hear.) The lion. Gentleman then entered into a detail of the privations to which the in habitants of Sheffield were subjected, and state 1 that these privations were entirely attributable to the operation of the laws with respect to the importation of foreign corn. A an instance of the deter iorated and impoverished condition of the people of Sheffield, Mr. Ward stated that there were at pre sent no less than 31,000 houses uninhabited in that town, whereas in 1837 there was not a single house vacant there. That was a proof of the exemplary patience (as the Right Hon. Gentleman called it) with which the people had endured the distress they were suffering under ; the only thing that placed the people of Sheffield at all in a better position than their neighbours was, that under the late law there had been a gradual coming in of American corn into the country, but if the Right lion. Gentleman's scheme were adopted, it would totally prohibit the introduction of American corn—( Llear, hear)—and upon that ground in itself, if there was no other, he (Mr. Ward) was determined to give it every possible oppo sition. His constituents at Sheffield had derived some advan tage from their trade with America, and from the introduction of American corn even in a limited degree ; but against that trade the present Government appeared determined to close the doors of this country by imposing a high and prohibitory duty.—(Cheers from the Oppositiots) The importation of American corn into Sheffield had formed the basis of trade there within the last three years, but the measures proposed by the Government must have the effect of putting a stop to it, although he would beg leave to ask the Right Ho nourable Gentleman why he recommended a sliding scale to be adopted in this country, and why he wished for a fixed duty in Canada. Why should there not be a sliding scale in Canada as well as in England ?—(Cheers.) The whole arose from a mean jealousy on the part of the landed proprietors.—. ( Loud cheers.) He hoped the present measure would not be persevered with. The Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-Pre sident of the Board of Trade, said that the reduction of Ame rica.o,produce would be in proportion with the introthietiori of foreign wheat, Qo the aontrary,,there.Was ,a . want' of ' ern e ployment in the country, arising from' the iirobibitofy dirties on foreign corn. It was stated that joint-stock banks and an over supply of machinery had a great deal to do with the dis tress which existed in the country. He believed that the power of production was the great cause of it The Hon. Gentleman then went into a detail of the diminution of the home consumption of cotton, and showed that it was clear over-production was not the cause of distress ; it was the want of the power of the population to consume. The Right Hon. Gentleman had but one choice, he should give industry fair play; he should release it from all its shackles, but the scheme he proposed could not assist him in doing that. If the Right Hon. Gentleman could he shown .hat his proposition was only a modification of the old measure, of which he (Mr. Ward) believed it to be a most servile copy— ( Laughter and cheers)—how was it possible he could persevere with it ?—( Loud cheers.) A better speech against the pr.:posed measure, he (Mr. Ward) never read than that of the Right Hon. Baronet in introducing it to the House--( Hear, hear, hear, and laughter)—he spoke to the last moment with a manifest consciousness that he could not meet even the ex, ectatioos of the Hon. Gentlemen on his own side of the House.—( Hear, and 1 aughter. ) If the Right Hon. Gentle man thought his own opinion was better than that of every Hon. Gentleman who had spoken to the question, he deserved credit, at all events, for a good deal of self-opinion.—( Laugh ter.) But he (Mr. Ward) believed, if a. good and an effec tual remedy, was vot applied to the existing distre s, it would excite the deepest and the bitterest disappointment. Did they think that those fl msy coverings which they threw over their proceedings in this House were not seen through by the p Arlie ? They were.—(Loud cheers, and counter cheers.) He repeated it, they were seen through ; and when the people of this country saw that not one man would vote in favour of this tax who hail not a personal interest in carrying it, it explained tall that had taken place lately—it explained the dissolution—and it was enough to demoralise the country. —( Cheers, and laughter.) He look. d on the measure pro.. posed by the Right Hon. Baronet as one which would disap point every reasonable man in this country. It couldnot give he slightest relief , yet he had no doubt the Right Hon. Baronet would carry it.—(" Hear, heir,", from the Toriss.) But he. knew there was a power beyond this House which had actuated the framing of this scale ; he believed the Right Hon. Baronet would have made a Letter scale if they would have let him, but he had sacrificed his own convictions for the purpose of kee, ing the psrty together which he had the misfortune to lead. He believed that he (the Right Hon. Baronet) had many reluctant (Chewers, and that he was forced to assume a semblage of union which did not really exist.—(Hear ) He prevented them from splitting, but he had better have done so by stating his own conviction, instead of bringing forward such a measure as this, which had caused him (Mr. Ward) to give his support to the motion of the Noble Lord, for if they came to choose between a motion like this and a total repeal, he thought there could be no doubt as to which deserved their support ; and he (Mr. Ward) should vote for the motion of his Noble Friend the Member for London.—( Hear.) Sir E. KNATCHBULL then rose, but he spoke in sr low a tone of voice, and also turned his back to the reporters, that we were rot able to catch the whole of his remzrks. He trusted the House would bear with him for a short time, and he would premise that he should not detain them longer than was necessary. Gentlemen opposite had accused them of not having abided by their former opinions ; he would not stop to inquire whether they were right or not, but h e would say, that if Gentlemen on his side of the House had receded from those extreme opinions which had been ascribed to them, those on the other side had been guilty of the same thing. Did the Hon. Member for. Bolton remember that he had stated last evening that the people paid 50,000,000. of what he called a tax upon b -ead.—( Hear.) This night he had reduced it to 5,000,000/ —( HearOnsar)—and if all the other statements of the Hon. Member were to be reduced in the same degree, they would find that the peoi le of this country, instead of being injured by the proposed law, would be greatly benefited by it.—( Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman op posits had alluded in strong terms to the speech made by the Hon. Member for Knaresborough ; he had no doubt the Hon. Member would defend that speech and the statements con tained in it, nor would he meddle with that speech in order to defend it ; but he must beg leave to say that the Hon. Gen tleman opposite, in accusing the Hon. Member for Knaresbo rough in the terms which he had employed, had done more than one Membee of that House was justified in doing towards another—( Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—and he (Sir E. Knatchbull) hoped the Hon. Gentleman opposite would be more cautious in his future strictures on the speeches which might proceed from his side of the House.—(Cheers.) Ile would now revert to the absolute question before the House. They had entered at some length into the question of the scale. He thought this should have been deferred till they met in Com mittee, because he knew they should have to discuss it over and over again ; but in reference to the proposition made by the Noble Lord, whether a sliding scale or any other plan de served his preference, he had said few' words on the subject, and an Hon. Gentleman had observed that the Noble Lord had never mentioned the Bs. duty. He had ingeniously given that the go by. But what was the object of the Noble Lord's speech? He either intended to propose the es. duty, and to make that the law, or else to have no duty whatever ; but he had left them in great difficulty to know what was his opinion. But if the Noble Lord expected that the landed interest of this country would place any reliance or con fidence in him, he would be very greatly mistaken.— ( Hear.) The plan proposed by the Noble Lord could not be tried with the consent of the interest he (Sir E. Knatch bull) represented. He had marvelled greatly what the Noble Lord would say when he came to the Ss. duty, and when he had got there he had said, what was very evident was the only thing he could say,, namely, that they could not retain that duty. He (Sir E. Knatchbull) would now quote from a very high authority on the subject. Mr. M'Culloch had said that a simple fixed duty on corn would be better than anything they could propose, if it were possible it could be retained.— ( Cheers and loud counter-cheers.) But when it was the fact that when corn reached a certain point the duty must be re moved, they had an entire answer to the 'whole question.-- ( Hear, hear.) In a series of twenty years that occurrence might not take place; but who knew when it might occur? It might be in the first or second year, and ho would warn the Gentlemen who represented the landed interest, that when the time came for the removal of the duty, they might depend up on it, it would not be easy again to renew it. He must say that the landed interest had freely received . the proposal ma d e b y the Right Hon. Baronet , and he (Sir E. Knatchb u ll) s h ou ld I never have agreed to it unless it gave to the a gr i cu l tur i sts such ample security for their property as might ena bl e t h em to maintain that station in society which it was their right to hold.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches.) That statement was met by cheers from the Opposition side of the House, but if he had not made it he should not have been acting „consistently for the cause which he advocated. They on the other side of the House came forward to advocate the cause of the distressed manufacturers, for that distress he and his pasty felt as much as they did.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear,") They (the agriculturists) had, however, themselves some years back been placed in the same distress as that of which the manufacturers now complained. What was the course the agriculturists adopted? They went to the Legislature and asked for relief ; but did they ask that their interest should be promoted at the cost of the manufacturers 1 No, they took a very different course; they relied on the justice and the wisdom of the Legislature. But what was the course the manufac turers now pursued 7 They asked them 0 grant a measure which would place them in the same position :,s that ip which the manufacturers were at p resen t p l ace d . —( Cries of " Oh, oh," from the Opposition benches.) He did not think these things should be scouted at ; he thought they should meet a recep tion of a very different character ; they (the Ministers) might be mistaken in the views they held. but they believed they were right; and if they gave them the measure which was asked by the Noble Lord, they would fail in relieving the distress of sshich they complained. Its speaking of dis tress, the Hon. Gentleman had especially alitittect to the tom . which he himself represented. Ile must know. however, th.at' tt.e principal trade of Sheffield was with the United States ( 9 4 , 4 % America, and that the difficulties which had take n p lace acr d ~° water, must have been at the bottom of that distress. 036 trusted and he believed that those difficulties would soon ceas e': . e.. that the distress in Sheffield would cease with the m, and that the commet cial relations between the two countries would u., 0 put on a sound a footing, as he was sure must be the desiret. every Member of both sides of the House. The Hon. Genaller, man opposite had said that he coat not percei ve peculiar burthens on the landed interests, or why should be en titl e d t o an y protection at all. Surely • (~ was not the ti me t o t e ll th e country of the many burthens agriculturist s , i n th e s h ape o f t axes . di sq ualifi ca tions, and' many disabilities under which the land laboured, among greatest of whi c h was th e prohibition of the cultivat ion of itoei, bacco in this cou n t r y. If they adopted the step of re ee° %... the duty from corn, were th e y rre p are d t o answer for th e sequences ?—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches.) 11; (Sir E. Knatchbull) had had dealings with a farmer in neighbourhood, who was a very cunning man in his way; farmer said to him one day, " I have been thinking a bout Corn-laws, and these new fangled notions, I think I should 1 1°, ti 8 o • ' to have a free trade in corn." This surprised him verY u c and he said he had never heard him say so befe, e ,: . nor any one else in his situation—( Loud cries of 64 Oh, 0 7 t . , ., from the Opposition benches)—" Well, but I think I'm rig I r e; said the farmer, f(I should like to have the Corn-la w ' hat pealed, and a free-trade instead, but on one conditions k, • before they are repealed, 1 should like to sell all my s tpc iba sheep, corn, and such like, and to lie by till we can see h a s . effect of the change." He (Sir E. Knatchbull) said t, c mid not be done. " Oh, then," said the farmer, " Ithi t u it it would be better to have the laws remain as they are. --Nuo laagh. ) Now, if the duty were taken off corn, wha t vf° ' become of all the labourers and occupiers of land in the artio., cultural districts? A large number of them would be see ori. the manufacturing dis ricts, which would only misery, distress, and destitution than exists at r ese s n s 61, ( Hear, hear.) If there were one part of the speech ma" - 10 the Hon. Gentleman opposite, which he (Sir E. K —natchbu., regretted more than another, it was that part which itisinuabv; that their actions were founded or interested motives. Se e bs, statement could leave no impression on the minds of ler t ii e ss did their duty because it was their duty, and who stood on different grounds than to promote their own interest. .0,, (Sir E. Knatchbull) thought it his duty to consider this q u • else ' tion distinct from the opinions entertained by a ny one jo s, and he liked it because it would be beneficial in his qt.., alike to the British farmer and the British manufacture cause Mc__ ( Hear, hear)—and he rejoiced to say that the maie r " o J iiib those whom he had the honour to represent, were well e s '„••„ a t., satisfied with the measure proposed by the Right Hon. It was necessary for the well-being not only of the s;"tliso turists, but'for the whole interest of the United Empir e ~ the protection which now existed should be continued' ths: Hon. Member for Bolton (Dr. Bowring) in re p r esenting,ny . distress that existed in that town, h a d sa id th a t out of itt, mills in it thirty were unemployed. Now, certainly if ih e „Y ug h: doted the public to believe that that which was bat e e— R6: j was worse than it really was, they did those whom they 14 0% sentect a very great evil.—(The Right Hon. Baronet thenbs , ceeded to read an extract from some statement sof Mr . 1 1., k isson, but in so low and indistinct a tone of voice as to he, ba most inaudible in the gallery. We understood it to be te t iao ' effect that Mr. Huskisson had been in favour of a protee tba s, duty on corn.) The Right Hon. Baronet went on to 9 0'04; though that opinion was expressed by Mr. Huskisson in tbo yet that, on an abstract question such as the present svt e opinion of se high an authority was as good a t any one roues at another. As for himse fhe would nersevere in the q tie sl s he had taken ; and he trusted the opini on s he had enterW i d ,and the arguments he had adva nce d on th e su bject, We e ' confirmed by a large majority of that House. ~ it lie l6 Dr. BOW RING, amidst cries of " Ord e r, order, soi• hear," rose to explain.—lt was true that when he (pr' m s 0 , ring) spoke of the state of Bolton, he h a d i n reading 11.- est doeument which had been put into his hands, said that eesos fifty mills in that town thirty were unemployed. down spontaneously the next day to the House, and " n iss that the document from which he had read the previous eve'ixis had been incorrectly copied—that a part occurring in t he 11 1 , ginal document had been left out by the transcriber . „ar expression in the original was, that thirty mills were 7,0 played, or working short time. The words, "or working,. d i% time," had been through mistake or carelessness omliglit the copy from which he had read to the House. If th e . fi gl Hon. Baronet had been in his place when he (Dr. Bt vi rhi o had explained, he was certain that the expressions te,t a iii fallen on the present occasion from the Right Hon. Gen" - would not have been used. ; 0 1 Mr. LABOUCHERE said, from the time thediscus s •e-,, lasted, he should have been content to have given a 5d,!.., ° gsr in favour of the motion of his Noble Friead (Lord John sett sell), perfectly satisfied to rest that vote upon the arfl u osa which had been urged by the Noble Lord ,and those Yi b° •,oo the same side of the House: with. im, if he ; (11Ir. LO liter feel and. knowwell, that having late.), occapiedan ofic 00 tion under the Crown, connected with the c ommercial ie_ f of of the country, he could hardly reconcile it to his senser s o e to those interests, not in a f ew w o r d s , a t l eas t t o express 1 ;3 0 t7 Mons upon a qu es ti on w hi c h sa d ee ply a ff ec t e d them. t oe could assure the Hou s e th a t, i n so li c iti ng it f or that P a d the and indulgence wh oh would alone enable him to ell' r ,,, e ," ti t to views he entertained on the subject, he should ende a n ' o ibie; repay it by being as brief in his observations as P - itigii i He had listened attentively to the seeech of the bid Honourable Baronet who had just sat down. ~ ' le o the long known the Right Hon. Baronet to be in that 11° 0 u tt erl 5 " unflinching advocate of high protection to the agri‘;, o f 111 and he (Mr. Labouchere), must say, that the speech Right Hon. Baronet, as a Minister of the Crown, nil t ., f,r, degree at variance with those opinions which he 1 00 0, 5 , bouchere) had heard from him in other places, sPe a li s t l' county Member. He (Mr. Labouchere) rejoiced t ot r Right Hon. Baronet had given them, what they had ° a prO?: hitherto, namely a clear definition of what the object an, , 'Po e o ciple of the present Bill, were.—(Opposition cheere'f ie lt e t Right Hon. Baronet had been perfectly plain and e is ql,tese!' that subject. He had told them that the object or I 4 ', e i teill. Bill was to keep up the value of the estates of the .1 ii,11 . ,, terest—(Opposition cheers)—to preserve that interest e iti station in society—(Renewed cheers from the 10 . - 411 .. ,,,, , , benches, answered by cheers from the Ministeriai n s ,..! bf ali. lest him n Baronetat b l ty t t e h r t b e hhue s a h i Rid o t u i .1 1 ee d irpie b eo eaf nodded t . a eoGd n d y (ei net hdt. e a who mistake vsheon tot wentno thet observationh o e n sentiments t u os b e j sc e a o c yn t ) , d t . h t e i .oiis P t _c r.. nirti a C ebtlf S act i tee i tuie at i s it was acknowledged on the opposite of. the House, was the meaning of the Right Hon. Baronet. Now h i gil Labouchere) conceived that the just object of a Corn P l i t e . of a totally different nature. He conceived that the ;Ay which that House, representing all the vat ious classes Corn . I ` tor l great empire, oupt to have in view in passing a to arrange the subject on such a basis as should h,,e ts ' oe rt advantage of all classes of the community.—( dl . of Ile ought not to exclude she interests of so valuabie.s.. munity as the proprietors of the soil—( Hear, hear) , D.`:.; . ,, , his first and paramount duty ought to be to regard anla.gi,i for interests of incalculably greater importance than ,I 1 terests of the mere proprietors of the soil—the interestairei , immense majority of the people of this country."7l 0 I : 1 cheering.) 'that was what he (Mr. Labouchere) he'Oft , the just and legitimate object of a Corn Bill—(CheeF'il i it i c he must say he had much satisfaction in rememberin:Loe ~ those views he was supported by the Right Hon. 0 ;: i Ort' high authority.—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Labouchere) I" 0.4,r, ever sorry to say that the principles advocated in softie g t i ,, , the speech of the Right Hon. Baronet were very the practical details of the measure he brought f° fitbK (Hear, hear)—but he (Mr. Labouchere) did agree . fl a fillt; Right Hon. Gentleman that it would be unbecoming b - 0 4 .4 graceful to have it said that the object of this meaau re c e keep up the rents of the atistocracy, or to enable en e so si c s the community to. maintain their stations 1 mars He (Mr. - Labouchere) would be as sorry as any °tarry be to see the ruin and impoverishment of the o it proprietors of the country ; but still he meant that woe were legislating on a question that concerned tho bre , people, it was their duty to regard the interests of t, b o e tt ill,, at large.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Baronet in I rt gr i ing this subject admitted that it was one of awful jive s t s differew .s In truth, in a country such as England—in any countel r ' o er, affecting the food of the inh a bit an t s mus t b e a meat r oter; e a 4 greatest importance. But there we r e many consilw in the highly artificial state of society in this ni til which rendered any law involving the s upply of corn 5 10 t, of g rave importance indeed.—( Hear, hear.) Before ceeded with the details of this subject, he would brie:Z(l4s the attention of the House to the actual state of the_..,. and to its prospects with regard to the supply of eer ri ;sitr• o f Right Honourable Baronet acknowledged that. it vval 1 0t jet in some years we were obliged to import large que d .oo, f corn, but he added, that in favourable seasons we 1 4 or ; , for our own consumption. But the real questiel.-, - „ it , House was, to see whether, in an average Ail (I we had grown enough for the supply of the peeld e *. t. , ea* hear.) If it was true, that in bad years, we We n d - etialli„ from other countries, but that in good seasons we ha v t4o"oo and to spare, and could even export produce, there ! 4 force in the reasoning of the Right Hon. Baronet; Ae ttos_!o contrary was the case ; in fact, we had an average u l ifali of supply of corn of home growth, and throughout 0 4 01 i of years we had been importing a large and increasieglolig of foreign corn. He would show the House return' 44 al 'red strate this. He had in his hand a ThrtilP ito pat A t average importations of foreign and colonial Wheat t ot r into this country during periods of ten years from 1760 to the present time : l i ! From 1760 to 1770 we imported 94,000 (Par te 0 1770 to 1780 1780 to 1790 143,000 " 1790 to 1800 470,0130 ...... • ' ~ 1800 to 1810 1810 to 1820 1820 to 1830 - .. 51,4,000 -+,41,,1, 41 ,, 1 1830 to 1840 ... • ..... ... 908,000 th e Thus showing from the experience of the past that,, i git,rj, of the people had outstripped the means of supply, I t 4Txti, 1 we must consider ourselves as in a country de5tit 1 6440.1 . ;40 annually increased supplies of foreign 00rn. , -- ( P.P n id OW we should go en increasing at the same rate, we illtr yrkili during the next ten years 20,500,000 quarters e r ''''„, 9 ll tiaml's more than 2,000,000 quarters of wheat for the e ",.'i te t rt, of each year.—( Hear, hear.) Another inane r ' ec t 0 4) leaning on this question was the state and Pr, ° ,l ) ,,,rdkl corn trade between this country and Ireland.—li — d intO The Right Hon. Baronet conceived that lola° .„„ t tbiLloa inexhaustible granary to this country. m Tholia,:lit far from being the case. Looking to 2 .010°...r actually taken place, we should discover the Ivrea, o rn frf 4 0 , f i°'o ffr aill . that down to the year 1833, the impor t s P. ,.,., stew . tit, into this country, he spoke of wheat only, had neer st e p o , creasing. In that year, Ireland exported the 1*.r1!, (3 that' fat we hail ever received, being 844.000 quarters; 0 11 ', yet i ,'" . io it had been regularly diminishing, in the nex t 779,000 quarters; in 1835, 661,000; in 183 6, 000 quar b igh 1837, 534,000 • in 1838, 542,000; in 1839, 25 !' u les °l llO and in the two last years, notwithstanding the st r u tter , 1 1, 7 1 1 prices, it was in the former, 218,000 ;in the jit ter, tit e 5, quarters. —( Hear, hear.) He was hank t fi r `,4lo ilifiq striking diminntion dicl not proefio Nom anY `''/wi n g Pri r lat' it was on the contrary, coonected with the g ) ,-.,., u „O f of that country—( Hear, hear, from Lord Stall do o ; and. , ,:, now consumed more wheat than she used t° _ faci lit o l trio'' also explained by the fact that since ttr wo cat Ji l l communication by steam between the in ,-, f itg i r lob* it had been found more profitable to deVete •''' l o ng er 0 0 mo d no _ i n . purposes. It was therefore clear that we ° 1 . , ar.) 0 th° to Ireland for supplies as heretofore.—( Hear' ,t i d i,tre n ; 103 e state of thing', and at a pert , d of acknowledge Crewbat, its Right Hon. Gentleman the First ISl:nistar a - eoUntrY t he L forward and announced to the House and the ~ fie (I t 110 3 ' his opinion, the Corn. laws ought to be alter tho gig ~,,bii agreed entirely with what he had Wien heard .nu , s tion t if 0, Baronet say, that the Corn-law wae, c ° s ,lty ; Il ar its' ought not to'be altered sv'tbout a great lle.; 0 I ) ; ilo 6. - 01 1 1.,- , necessity hail arrivpi, the Otefaiioft Ileg,. u c t it ior off,. f o e; faptory as to be an improvement in th 'I F c i 9 ned 114 seal, ° f ( —( Cheers ) He (Mr. L.) had P.q• in l ) h . ' L.'s) °V deal 4 by the Right HO s. Baronet, and his . ( , e • __,,,, a great ,„0. would be given in a few words. 'fuer a sliding for a iumpiflg IF°;°,' an d t ale l u g 10 1 agement tia ap vo p : a . re i n : t pnrot ri e a ulina:iH:s, fo t inthesomeeviapracutieelLo:ilai%sP.4:6llu. rVic.pi demonstrative. He' believe also .`tha't the erecting sexist') white most e theientlY e r_,. t han ~. L. tore, would bring more money to the rev_ e n in u: no , be ( he r ' the jeer c or ing one. Still, admitting those itlaP-°`: o bject noraii--- ° the ope• - 't cal al" felt that it would afford any preen n a _ e -ced h9 i wi g sl: dition of those classes who had bee tba r therefc it lle impt° l must say that the more he looked at the ft tion of the present Corn.laws, and e ~ , of 'the Is Worth while going about.it for the PM