The Sun. — London, England, 1825-04-27 00:00:00

to the Lord Steward's Office and then into the House of Corti mons, and swear that you, have three hundred pounds per annum in lands and tenements; : though you are not worth a shilling, and have no lands and tenements.' —(Cheers.)—Tiathis charge there was -no ansWer, except that it would be a breach of privilege, and the poor cottier would be sent to Newgate. But Members of Parliament went still further, for they put down in writing the parish and county where these lands were situated. The Irish cottier did no such thing. It did not become them, therefore, to disfranchise the IriSlr for perjury, when they were placed in a similar predicament themselves. But steels practices were not confined to the House of Commons. There was no niece honourable or gallant profession than that of the Army ; and probably-the officers of that army would express themselves avith- the greatest warmth about the per , juries the Irish freeholders and the oaths of Members of Pitrliament e Yee what was the ,case in the, army ? Officers were called to state upon their honour, 'for. sweariug was not in their way, that they - gave no more for their commissions than the regulatetkprice ' when in facethey had, given double.—(l.lear !) This system had been greatlialteredby the present Commader in Chief, and be wasgladeo have the opportunity of giving him creche for it. : . fer lie bid spoken only e of laymen—(a laugh),.', but it grieved hint to say that the Clergy were not entirely free from this pranticee The, Right Reverend .Prelates in another Place were foremost • to express their. . - elaherrence of the crime of perjury, hut if perjury was criminal hi:a layman, how much mare so in a Priest: Yet they solemnly declared in the pre sence of God, ( when called upon to take. a living, that they weretnoyeel thereto by an inward impulse. Suppose it were a Ilving,of .4,000/. per annum, the Incumbent declared he was Moved by the ,Iloly Ghost to take ,upon himself the Office and Ministry thereof., So. a .Right Rev.-Prelate, was movetlio take the liviine of Bisluipsgate Without; valued at .4,000/. a year, after having hot - 0;0s and thousands:or tunes Voted against the Catholic Questiop, the Dissenters' eMarriege.,Bill, and every measure. of. retrenchment. All he Would. say was, that those wereemyeteriee,he could not understand, though , they were nn doubt well celculated to attain their ends. Yet the Mem , bees Of that Muse, the Officers. of the Army, and the Bishops, were so exquisitely squeamish on the subject of perjury amongst the jrisb r,cettiers. Of Custom House. Oaths .. he .would say nothing, because they went to benefit the.Revenue.—(Hear Steehewere.bis sentiments as to the morel and religious parts of the subject. He was further told, that without this Bill, the great question of Catholic Emancipation never could lie carried. If Any thing the world could wring a consent from him,, it would be this circumatance,if true. -He' had not heard any thing against the 13111. All werein its favour. It was a power lid bribe, therefore, to tell him that a measure so, praised would facilitate the passing of the great question of Ethandipation. There were high authorities in its favour. •The'Attoniey-t3le-- neral for Ireland could not have any but-the most conscienti ous motives .for supporting 'it. Scarcely inferior in authority wee the Hon. Member for Westminster (Sir F. Burdett,) who, though possessing no information beyond that possessed in • common by the [louse, was in its favour; because it would as- siet the measure, which, to his immortal honour, he had intro thiceda• ,'The authority of the Right Hon. Baronet ( Sir J. NeW psrobri his right, was still higher.—That Right Hon. Member Was one of the most disinterested statesmen. 'Whether in office or out of office, whether in regard to the interesteaif England, or of his own dear and beloved country, and he' hoPed: that Ireland would hale his name in honoured remembrance; and associate it with that of Grattan. Such' a guide, he Could . almost be content to follow blindfold on any great constitutional ques- - t inn. But on this question all was darkness. • He had no se e lefty for the efficiency—none for the legitimacy of this measure. tie suspected that it would be the source of schisms, and would ultimately prevent Emancipation from being carried: It- was not compatible with a full emancipation, and would make email ciliation unpopular, and thereby deprive_it oft ;10tlis•of tile conciliatory effect which formed with him the principal reason for voting fOr it. Mr. O'Connell, after expressing his dislike to meddle' with the Elective Franchise, said, that it gave the freeholder a political importance, it tended to keep him on good terms with-his landlord, and gave him a stake in the coon ti-Y. Mr. shiel admitted that. his acquaintance with Ireland chiefly related to the towns, yet he said that though the present treasure would be • unpopular at first, yet it might be made Popular by the great personal influence of Mr. O'Connell. Was nigher round for legislating . ?-4Hear, hear !),- No man had al value for Mr. O'Connell than he had, and he looked °lam his influence as a pledge for the conciliation of Ireland.— tut Mr. O'Connell could not go over to Ireland, and endue . v9 urao make that a popular measure against which he had given evidence. The effect of Mr. Shiers opinion would be t `,' `- ‘tre the upper rinks of the Catholics have obtained a'e passing of the great measure of -Emancipation, which will I°) lnediately benefit us, and ultimately benefit you, and the 42l ei ° ,,r 1 Y price 'we have paid for it is the destruction of your elec. exiee e franchise. But that Mr. O'Connell would never use any argument was clear from his own evidence. He would gei , the liberty of -laying ;loan a principle which ought to e a! 411 1 their proceedings ve _sser e of public policy should be considered, rejected, and : - Tpted on its own merits, and not in connection with any (Hear great measure, scarcely less important than itself. — l l i% (~ 1 1 ) ! en e o r , hear !)—The consequence of this left-handed, t mode of compromise would be , that the main question could never be fairly decided by the House. One party would compromise with the other, i votin g . for this bill in order to carry the other • or a bandoning oning the t i i r .s oppa t i- t _ lion to the other on the consideratio n the Catholic Question ought to be carried,7:rmsii•enjgecte'di on its own merits only. It was the most fatal ' policy in the world to grant one legislative measure as a bribe for another. On the z ubject of rite elective fran c hi se th e House ought to be ex.' intruding cautious. Their a n cestors h a d a l ways b een so , both in I ntrudin g an d di m i n i s hi ng i t. In recent times t h e cases o f the Jetty idual boroughs of Grampound, ilston, and Shoreham had eachoccupied the a tt en ti on o f t h e H ous e for more than one s elision. Vet they were now called on, instantly and without information or inquiry, to pass a measure of disfranchisement against all Ireland.—( Hear!)—What could be more inconsist ent with the general practice of the House? (The Hon. and aeearned Member then recurred to the period 7th and lith XVil llaM and Mary.) When the Spliting Act, the Treating Act, and some other measures of reform, were passed by Parliament; and stated that they had occupied the undivided ,attention of Parliament for a whole Session. This was the head of legisla tion which should be followed now. Every thing which put re-- strainta on the elective franchise should be most scrupulously examined. The Committee now sitting on the state of Ireland was insufficient. The present measure should be the subject (4 a Special Committee. He wished certain important ques tions to be answered before he could place himself in a condi tion to legislate. Ile wished to know whether some other means (mild not be adopted to meet the existing evil. The first wit. near called by the Hon. Member for Statihrdshire was the Hon. !ember for Louth , who said that he went a great deal further, Fad would propose another remedy. That was quite enough. -'n the evitience of the Hone Member for bond' the Bill had 'wen introduced, and he now rose in his place to say that the remedy was not the right one, as there was another and a better one. Was he 'asking too much, then, when he asked for in- SuitY ? It was impossible to vote for tile Bill without further Iformation. No two persons had agreed in their evidence on e subject. - They had all given different descriptions of the tact and the remedy. The House ought to pauee. and that pe tit:ea of pausing should be occupied with inquiry. Until a taiger body of facts were laid before the House it would be un e to carry the measure. Conciliation was at present the great watchword with respect to Ireland, but who would be bold r,,,,„ ° °gb to say that if this Bill and the Bill for Emancipation azure carried, the one would so recomme nd the other, as to - the benefits without incurring the evils of either ! The 17netite of both must be reinoteLethe evils ot' one immediate. e d a e na' one did say So, he would admire him as a bold and con g4int prophet, without feeling disposed to take him as a eva '',,; Catholic Eancipation, simple and unadulterated, 1 0 ' l4 be a pledge to l l reland that Parliament was determined ; hut if it were .accompanied with another 4 -- le a '" ? o n re ciliate traction,. , bottomed on other, views, and liable to Anis all its conciliatory qualities would be destroyed. e e li a l e 4 a wae his foreboding view of the sebjec . If he were. dis lu, to make . th e _sacrifice of his opinion on the present Wo u l d ' s '" would ensure ' him that the Catholic Question be carried.? They were reckoning without. their hosts— e:Y were reckonin without their Lords.—(Hear ! )--It was not li: l 4 e i)er• that lie should make - allusion to die other House of Par- AL," e nt- but he might allude to what passed in another place. In - t r° 4 feissed that he, felt great alarni at Bearing what had passed te e ,; e * other place. Ile felt alarm, not only on account of the. er 11 .4 : ti ent of Ireland, but also on behalf of the Government t ei4 ieetand ; for the stability of the menarchy, as by law esta- Aye a e °, e-- th ear !)—and as settled by the - Revolution of Ilia al eee ,` Be had heard had given him such deep and serious tie— be confessed before God thet he could not believe t' e when he was told of it. -It was impossible ie could be la ve ' ,1 he newspapers were full of libels. No man could be to m e hilt a Prince of the Blood Royal, the ,Pres,umptive heir to to brone, would. venture to promulgate that when he ca me . • rh rone tti7e iL„ UNICETT here arose amidst some confusion and e7Arli e ir,:- Order," and said that he regretted not having at an te em . iltiknent risen to order and pui duo)) to the line. of argue Z.: l° l*W by his lion. and Learned Friend ;, but as that Passed 'n another had said that he would not allude to what had te e n n another Muse lie remained 'silent. Since, however, A 4 P • and Learned Friend had alluded to the publie prints `" the opi ou se mons of an illustrious Prince, he.owed it to. the , to that 11l • 1! toe talt .. Illustrious Prince, to himself and to the interests self f elt so Cause in-which the- Learned Gentleman stud noth se e- deep an interest, to intreat him to deliberate cuan neac ' e rreue any further the line of observation he had Said, that if the inference which the Right Hon. Gentleman had drawn from the observations of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was correct, then hisvondusions weie undoubtedly proper. It was impossible for any one to define more-clearly than the HOn.'and Learned Gentleman - had him self done the privilege and duty of Members in this respect ; and he (the SpeAer) was not prepared to believe that hi the subsequent part of his speech that definition-would have been violated; If the 'inference Of* the Right Hon. Gentleman was correct, then no doubt it would be-improper to persevere in the same course.—(Hear!) 111 r. BROI.JUHAM . said he was convinced that his Right Hon. Friendmeant his interruption to be in perfect courtesy - to himself, and at the same time to be of service to the Catholic Question. He hadinternapted'him, however, before the period arrived when the Speaker might have considered him as. disor- • derly. But no Member had a right to interrupt another because he deemed that he might heciime disorderly. Such mightbethe practice in the Irish Parliaments- but not in the English.: Here it was the custom to take down .the words of a Member, and, h e (Mr. Brougham) :was always ready to ansi'er for any ,impropriety 'of expresSion he • might lie- guilty' of. As' to the.charge of alluding. to. another, place, it - was a thing _which , took place every day. Surely no one would say that he was the first one who ever made such allusions. It was the com inon practice to conceal them - tinder the flimsy phrase of " an other plate.'.' ithlidtheett done by his • Learned; Friend (Sir) . .. illackintos`h), who alluded to the Prelates, and by the Hon. BaronetoPsiosi te (Sir WYnn).' Wiaukt it not bestrange, Mean, and low spirited, if they were to allude to certain Peers . in "that other oalace,: and not tolhe•highest ?, He lied Mull , the Lord. Chancellor attacked in, this House, and 24, hours after wardi %tie Ilia beard the Startle! Learned Lord alliidetceitiVribtite takert.of.bius and vindicate -himself from it., : What! .were luSiorit to • be - Made to 'the Bishops, to the . Peers' ' to the Lord Chanceller, and not to th e Princes rthe Blood ! The moment that is done, up j u mp s a qiiia tintet,' and in die most disorderly - , way accuses another ofidisorder. The whole of the Peers—the House of lords en ntasse might be abused, but— Colonel WODELI OUSE rose - to order. He wished to know , a hat the lion, and Learned Gentleman meant by the two words quirt tintet.—(Londlenglt ter. )n__ Mr. Secretary -PEEL begged to ask of theilon. and Learned- Gentili - rsin Whether on such . an important question,'wben it was.desirable to have a calm discussion, it would not be better not to persist in those allu.4ions which were certain to introduce a warmth info, the discutiiion most • unfavourable to the fair con sideration of. the .subjeet. • BROUtillAffl •!Knitle; that he thanked • the , Right Hon. , Gentleman for his suggestion, because it was .no doubt sin cerely made ; but he would not forego his right to make such allusions, inasmuch as they appeared to him most important. It was said ; that this measure ought to be ,carried because It wmild facilitate the carryingnf the Catholic question. TWenty four years_ago this might haVe been- said; -but at that moment was there a single man who believed that the Catholic ques don emit('• be carried.-(Hear!)—Was he then to abandon his right as a Legislator to examine that point ? No man could imagine that the measure of Emancipation - would pass. .When the .ominous news of a recent . event should go forth t o England and Ireland, it would SoundAknell of despamr t m the friends of the Catholic Question. This-must operate On every Member in making up his- mind. They had received fair notice of what was to come. He would not accuse any man of want of frankness, or want of honesty, or want of con *eience. But to go no farther he would say that they hid-to encounter au obstinate frankness, an undeviating honesty, a perverse conscientiousness, and 'nothing but the 'most perilous boldness could encounter the resistance now brewing against , the Catholics. Healid nothelieve that any thing• but mere votes could carry the 4nestion. Within the last twenty hours that which had occurred sheared that if anything could save - England from convulsions, and Ireland from endless disorder, it must be a large increase of votes on the Catbolic,Question. This was the time--(Cheers.):--this reign 'was the tiin - ;:;“Linid cheers) — yet a little- while and it wouldha too line; and the 'dine would be gone fOr ever. Yet ".a little more, slumber—a little more folding, of the hands to sleep," . its they had slept SeSsions after Session, and :Parliainentsafter Parliament, for the last twenty years, and they .would find intolerance and:despotism coming upon them " like an, sinned man," and the opportunity of sav ing Ireland and of p'aeirying England . would he departed from their_grasp.—( Li ear, :hear, were'a lover of dis cord—(Hear.; and laugh )—".,lsarn not a lover of discord," con tinued the 'Hon. and Learned Gentleman; " and those who perhapi deem Me seare' Theinselves only not lovers of discord, because-. they prefer the' solitude Of ,unshrinking obedience to an absolute military despotism."—(Cheers.)--He respected every man's conseiepcs, 'and God forbid' that he should. not give to others 'the ssaitle' toleration he ' expected for himself. He had said.out ofesliat 'House as well' as :.in it, that the want of conscience, of franknes s, and,of. honesty, were the last charges iie slioUld bring against any man, -hut he would say, that honesty itself often assumed 'a perverse and per tinacious cha racter, . mid the greate s t hop es a nd w i s e s t mea sures were trustrated by a " So help them. God ;" but he trusted in vain. It became them - then to set their House in order. If last year the Catholic Question had failed when there was no argument against-its-they ought to strain every nerve on this last occitaion.• God knew what events Might h a pp e n, and God thrbid they should happen soon.--(Loud Cheers.).- , -but when they did happen, although the Bill should be carried up, novby a Majority of 19, or of 27, but by an unanimous vote of the House and of the country though it Streamed with blood, yet would it find a difficulty of accept ance on the part of the CrOwn, These were his reasons for voting against the present Bill. It would deprive them of the precious and inestimable opportunity of pacifying Ireland. file House bad been timely infornied that before long it would be imposvble to carry thr Catholie question 'without-involving England with a perilous conflict with time Throne.—(Hear !) Sir J. NEWPORT -said that he felt some difficult in ad- ' dressing the HouSth alter the eloquent address of his Hon. and Learned Friend, and after the complintents which had been paid himself', but lie felt it incumbent oft him briefly to op pose the statement which his Honourable and Learned Friend had made. lie was a sincere and devoted friend to Catholic EMancipation, anti he regarded the present Bill as likely to fa cilitate thovimportant measure. It was also likely to tranquil lize Ireland, anti to save the empire front the convulsions which now inenacetilie He had been much surprised at the conduct of his Hon. anti Learned Friend, who began by saying that he ves wholly uninformed on the subject, and ended by pro nouncing so' decided an opinion against it.—(Hear!)—lie (Sir John Newport) had attended the Committee regularly, and every facility had been !afforded for examining witnesses on every point relating : to Ireland. Although there was great dif ference of 'opinion, yet every witness bore testimony to the ex istence of the evil and of the miserable state of the peasantry. His: Learned Friend called it a measure of disfranchisement, but it was not so.—(hear, hear !)—No real freeholder was to be disfranchised ; no 'existing rights were to be affected ; but no fittitious qualifications were to be created hereafter. He had fronethe beginning brought to the House his honest and con scientious conviction of the necessity of the measure, and he could now only reiterate what he had always said upon the sub ject. He could not understand' how any man, who was really time friend of the great measure, could- refuse to adopt another, npon the ground of its being likely to further the at tainment of - the first. And this, too, when the House were told that no existing rights were to be touched, while the measure' went, to prevent the future continuance of a mischief which every man admitted to exist. The undeserved eulogitini his Hon. 'and Learned Friend had passed upon hit Conduct and character, rendered still •greater the difficulties which- he should at all -times feel in coming to a conclusion directly opposite to that of his Hon. and Learned Friend.—(The Right Hon. Baronet hav ing ColleitlCred his speech; was compelled to leave the' House by indisposition.)' Mr. PLUNKETT commenced his address by saying that lie had' never felt greater difficulty in presenting himself 'to time House. • He was, however, particularly glad that his Right 'Hon. Friend, whom indisposition had compelled to leave the House, and whose indisposition- must be lam ented b y ever y m'an' who was the friend of 'lreland, and ithoni his lion. anti Learned Friend had so justly described:—he was glad that when he got up 'to answer the speech of his Hon: and Learned Friend, and to express his entire disagreement from all its sentiments, he could raise himself upon the high ground of hiS - Right Hon, Friend's opinion. He could assure his lion. and Learned Friend that neither time connection which lieforinerly had with time Irish Parliament, nor his experience in that House had been discredited by the interruption which he had thought it neces sary to make in the course of the debate. On the centrary, be thought that his Hon. and Learned Friend - had misconstrued the delicate terms in which he was told from the Chair that he was grossly out of order. From the unwillingness to be se vere in a quarter where they always 'found tire most undeviating courtesy, his Honourableand Learned Friend had mistaken the decision of that high authority. He was quite aware of the habit which prevailed of not strictly enforcing time order against 'allusion to time proceedings of the other House of Parliament ; and. no person would be suppos e d to watch- it so- closely as .to notice such allusions it' kept within wise and reason able bountli. But he would appeal to the House, whether, if at the moment when he interposed, A 4reitinjury — was not abort to: .be done-.-a violent breach of order to • be commit ted—(Bear, bear !)—With regard to thegreat question, he was n ot blind to the signs of the timet, and agreed' With his Hon. and Le arned Friend nor only ih feeling-the necessity ofpasiing the g reat measure , but'of doing it witho ut - the delay of an hour. ' ,—( Hear, heani A id lie would assure )-- t . ha l t if lie •though his Honourable and ileartied Friend, calling `hint' tel . Order t liction • f from any mari rat o t h e sentimenialie put: tor ward t subject, he was totally wrong In his ooi • mon ward upon ilia c • tied Friend was folio • • -his Hon. and Lea calculated a line, not intehd certainly to defeat his own 'eti; ho doubt, b ut periodwhen.object, if ever there was a every friend of Catholic Emancipation was called upon to exert all his energies to obtain. ' not only the largest majority, but to induce a unanimity of feeling in its Support. - Ile appealed,- theii, - -to Gentlenien . of every side, and called ,upon than to say, whether or not the speech of his Min. and Learned Friend was calculated 'to Union which it was so desirable to 'accomplish? -" ' ' • e was sin-prised to hear the argument which had 'the Hon. Member for Loath, because it was di_ ( p i.) ce r . ; ei i i7ee_e Caret.i i i s t . beers.)—He _ that bi r reedy . 'contradieted by the :evidence whi c h he gaveliefore the Committee under the Solemn obligation of an oath,a-it was -directly 'in the teeth of 'every thing whi c h 'the H on . Member recommended in the Committee. Ile would nOt.repeaa the references to•the evidence which had been so ahlteecaulected.._ bj , the lion. neither for Stafford.' - Intliat evidence the Hon. Ilembeinconstatiay spoke of the two parties only-the landlord and the tenant: 'lint now he objected to the Bill;•bectiaSe it did not 'likewise disqualify 'tile holders' 'of lifc fe7n, where" the .freehold was beneath a certain -- Vitae. Certain persons, said i as not Member; had. po ssesse d thetnselkes directed against eertain . 4ish mons and waste lands, who ought t o b e d i sfranch i sed also ; an d id of .clot- t b lc Honourable eeau.ti!c.33il tinkers, and. others of. class, it did not come up to his wishes. _Rhea was.surprised that such. an argument. as ,this sh mild have..-been. used.by,the Honourable Meniber f or L oat h , what was his con, sternation when he. saw. his Honourable, and Learned Friend adopt it—and not only adopt it, but misrepresent it; and.carry it to an extent beyond where the Hon. Member Shimself' in tended it sliould go. , It was impossibl e th at . his . t ll on ou rabic and Learned Friend, witn the eloquence and:paw s ewhich he. possessed, could, adopt the argument of another - an without, giving it great additional weight-aid importance, 'lt was. eVia dent to him, atthe•outsetaafehis Hon. and lea. ill Friend's speech, that he felt himself in great difficulty, and id not bring the powers of his great . mind to t h e di scuss i on i the i r usua l 'clearness and fiqedoni.- Instead cf . -calling lath: &hitt those . . - powers Of ridicule for which h e stoo d unrivalled, or that talent 'fir exposure which belonged to'him alone--- - -instead of - ernpl4- • ing these against the measure, his. talents were all directed to ex tolling and exaggeratingthe argutuen is of the llem, - ::.dember ter Louth. No-manceeldtionbt the sincerit eel his Hont. and le - earned' Friend's attaclnnent to the canse- of Doman Catholic fs'inanci pation. ale did- not rest upon- assertion, but upon4he splendid services.which he had-rendered. to that cause. '•lttit the readi ness of thought, . and-the-peculiar facility of •utterance . which were so characteristic of-hi:44lmi. and - Learned Fiend's Mind, hail upon. the present occasion been indulged perhaps' to weak , ness. Things. had -fallen from him which he wA- sine would have been rejected in his cooler - Moments, and under the in fluence of his-sober-judgment. He had-pressed Into the ser vice of his argument. all the topics calculated lin take' effect against the great question. He told them that this laws a Bill to prevent perjury ;• and. -then he .went to the Arnie. the Clergy, and the. Parliament, . to sliew that perjury Might exist there also. Now what did all this mean ?.•'l-ad it any piing taido-with the `merits of the question ?—(Cheers.)--14et hint Iti'mg 'his lion.! and Learned. Faiend to the test. of argument. At` at Weald be his tern far such.a method of ar gu i ng •th e qu2St i . if lie - had to describe it-in. anot h er ? W ou ld h e not descril ; it aa being 113 very much _like juggle--and would lie consider it entitled •to the attention of .serious.minds. In the whole of' his atgliment his Hon. and Learned -Friend begged'the question altegether. ' lie nitck-trained the measure, and diet) called upon the, II false to re , ' ject it upon-the strength of that argument.. - He caika ti., lull a measure of disfranchisemeq t..Wli at right had-he nado so ? ' Phis measure o f. disfran eh him en t -did not-propose.to ti atfran eh i se one human being alive. (Cheers.)—What, then, was the discontent amongst the people of Ireland .to be, excited by thi's measure, what justified the telowitigasis'pezil which had . bee t made to their feelings-? With Itspebt to - the other general a:teal:ions of his Hon. and Learned Friend, It had pleased him to sav that lie knew not whether this meastire was good Ot not, algal he had not the slightest intention orcondenining it Its a ateasure of it self. Perhaps not ; but to his fund his Hon. ,lad Learned Itriend's intentions in that respect - bad a vely'fitgly look-a: (Cheers'and laughter.)--,The complexion . of his speech bore a very strong-resemblance to that of _a determined olpenent. - He said again, that he would. not connect the two i - Uasures ' be cause it looked like supporting the great one i by b4hery. Now he (Mr. Plunkettfowned that he Shotild be very selacl to further the triumph of that pressing question by any troper means which lay within his reach. But his llop.and Learned .Friend had so much respect fur the power of. argittizen Si ) Much of knight errantry in the etitise of his logic, that lie telould not con sent to mix is up with ang'aupport of baser kintl-ano, not if it cost him the ohiect_of his wishes. It was really a, pity that the important occupations of' his Hon: and Learnat Friend's •life prevented , his 'time afrona being engrossed by . ' ell -matters. Otherwise; - if be..nottld have turned his ;aft; ring '. to..a novel, in which lie could have depicted all thete tleirente difficulties and sentimentalities, they .tvonltl • better shit smelt' a witrk'than . the House or Commons.—(Laughter.)---lie we . Id ' now state frankly to the House what he thought 'of this me. - tire ; and he was sure that however som m e He Gentlemen mi lit diar from him in opinion, no hottest man would think' ties: worse -of him Is for taking that course. Ile theight, then, that the measure was a good•one. But he w,mttl further state, that if' he had thought it bad in a certain degree, but that .it . ,,Atould enable him to attain the higher end incamparable„goeit in carrying. the great trieasaire, he would hard support,"l.it. I ,llc - had - now stated his creed, and he left the e liou.se to jutlaate , tetween him, and his. Hon. and Learned linen& ' According;tolthe argument of his Honourable and Learned Friend,. these , Bills placed beside each other, and made dependent on each other, hall no no connection. What were the facts ? They proposal that the Roman Catholics should be admitted to hold !seats in ParS Lament, and they were met by the assertion that the system , of forty-shilling freeholds would place the representation of Ireland in the hands of the Catholics, and that a 'Wretched and illiterate mob would till the Ilpuse of Commons.: Ile did ,not join in these fears ; but •they were entertained; and at all events they were advanced as obstacles to the prestress of the great measure. _ - ? He would tell his Hon. and Learned Feicad another view in which they were connected. Good and right as he be lieved this Rill to be, he iatuld not suPportit but - fit , being de pendent upon the removal of the Roman Catholic:, disabilities. As tong as the Roman Catholics Were left as they-at/ere they had no other means of supporting their own cause, aMi.endeavour ing-to obtain redress. ' It appeared to him, thereflife, that there was a natural and a necessary connexion between these two subjects, and that his Hon. and Learned Friend luid no right to complain of being placed in a cruel anti painfu I situation by their ' union. In fact he never saw his Hon. anti Learned Friend more lively, than he was under his sufferings throughout the.. whole of his speech. He .never saw his fancy more lively, his imagination more active, or his-rhetoric more flowitig. Ile had never seen him in greater spirits—recruiting anti enlisting into his service every topic which' fancy could suggest as , :being most distant from the question—than in . this situation of torture in which he had been so cruelly placed.—( Laugh ter.)-at I e would next address himself to others who entertained objections to this 081. For Ins Right Ilon. Friend near him (Mr. feel), he was perfectly convinced that if' lie (Mr. Peel) -shOu/d. think the measure good of itself, he would be incapable of opposing it, for the sake of increasing the opposition upon the oreat ques tion. since the pa.ssin4 of the Act of' 1793, which began at the wrong; end, anti admitted th e l owest anti most iintantltY to the privilege of the elective franchise, instead of the .hest informed, and those who were th e possesaors of' real propertV, ' what had been the consequence ? The country Gentleman set about managing his property so as to see how many voters he could create in order that he might afterwards be able to trample upon their rights. In the year 1817, he re membered that his Right 'Honourable Friend alluded to the subject, and thought it necessary that some remedy should be aplied to the evil. What that reinedy sho u ld be, "his Right l i on. F r i en d h a d perhaps considered in his tnind, and would now no doubt state it to the lipase. The evil was dreadful in its influence upon every class of society. The landlord who gave the peasant his forty shilling .freehold afterwards com pelled this wretched being to come forward and swear falsely, and thus the moral and religious feelings of all the - partiea be chine extinct. '' What was the consequence if the peasant re • fused ? He was sure to be reduced to most shocking misery.by his landlord, who would not think of keepini an idlo, lubberly knave, that refused to swear to his freehOld, and instantly . nutted him off. This was the worst of torture; the poor Miserable creature was either compelled to commit a crime at which his better feelings perhaps revolted, or to be turned destitute and starving upon the' world, and thus he was dragged into de moralization by a power which he could not resist. - It was. - their duty as Legislators to protect the morals or the . eountra ; 'and however good - the subject might be for the exercise of his 'Hon. and Learned Friend's pleasantry, it was not by such a • Coarse that :the cause of "CatholieEmanciPation could be ad vanced. Had his Hon. and Learned Friend treated this 'notion like a reluctant and unwilling dissentient ? ' Was it not more in the spirit of an earnest advocate for its destruction ?—(Cheers.) The next effect of this sySteni Was, that it involved the Land- ' 'lord and the' Priest in a struggle as, to wlio should get.. passe s _sion of the wretched peasant—equally degrading to hoth. What was the consequence to the peaaant after the election was tnier, and he returned to his hom e ? If he bad voted against lid s land lord', he' Was MOR likely tedneed, to begg ar y by distraining for rent,- or some other effectual means ; and this because he had resisted th6lyi'anny of hi4 - hiticilord, and under the influence of his Priest, had obeyed the dietatva-of what he believed to be his co nscience. ii 'hat .t he had stated was not asserti on only—it was to ' lielcitincl' in thd'Ovidenee' 'atiehout contradiction, and accompa most cogent reasoning and stateaent. This. Bi l, was , nie4 1 the ' , - ' f 1 with 'the purity of i' • . but tor --`- Viola ill for' inter er na ft) a e action out ne . it.- i neer !)--He t ut , ui ion lookin g . ' alt et. f curing it'—‘^-- '' - Ireld.ndwithintli- 1 ' returns 0 ;the freeholders registere h i Viers !to a pen‘ .ISt eighi V CarS, t hA t t h e fo l iy haling free oa • . those of 201. The consequence was that these men to one, over anteexercise their . judennent, -were overborne by wbarvi,&t' ali... to t and wretched mote Th e , the numbers of an ignorant anal Honourable Nt .... tt a e 7 eneasare hacVbeen objected to by 'the .., ~•____, _., ~ o r , tor Cktria s.ttu tottAt his can t 4-31 .—(t.tirs stal Castle in the. purity of laughter)—He begged to assure the Right Honourable 3tember _that he was. not a picrty to the meaning which thenififfieliad . fixed upon his words, beyond the point to which courtesy allow ed him to go: The•Right - flon. Gent. bad described the mea, sure at its outset, as being unjust, infamous, and unconstitu-. tibnal ; and rather then . permit it to pass was. ready to expire upon the floor of the House... 7 (A laugh.) -,-He should like to know. what there was uneonstitutioriarin the measure,eand what it was th.-.t so offended the Right Hon: Wentleman in the excess ~f* his Runnymede fMings•-,--(Laithter.)—iirith rer,rard to this: practie,FOF Making voters •in - Ireland, there - Wen Complaints that something of a similar nature tank place in England. There were towns in EN:pi - Id—he forgot th e ir nal - 1r.:42-1)ot he was acidreS4ing himself to - thd Nernber for Corte •Castle. L.--(great hitighter)...-where Stich*things . were said to exis t . believed thitt:th - seventual eftecCof this meitStre, as a political ineastrie;i4Oilld'beAti introdOce this e hist 'or :honest add respectable yeomanry in Ireland, who would 'prove the Fegu ar.(l of • her political - The • Right amourable (4entleman then 'adverted again to the - Svech -141r.' BrinikliOrni contending that he had misiate - rMted jheopitdon of Mr. O'Connell, and that he had decided' '6i , ork• this case Under an. entire. ignorance of its facts. He begf. , ,'ed him to inqui re o f th e Milt iqembers, his friend s ,' wh o tat tibout hint, anal he would ' find them almostall in favour 04. the measUre. advised him to information himself of of the.faets thrtm:- their means, -and for a little tvhile 'to l a y a,id.lrs'fancy V:11111C churnis of his r hetoric. Ile con: , ;ratti-' I.r.titdj the 'llinfse •upon the progress which the great cliy-Sltdri lad made by the force of • nrum n. and s' ,4 o eta , of 'ifit'be ) cdnversiuns which h a d b een e ff ecte d , that of the Hon. Mein l b6r . • - for:irnurgh was the roost valuable. The lliglit llon4GlVf.9 titan concluded by acknowledging the great services I.3ralt;Olam had rendered to the cause of Emancipattoli - ,', regretting th e course whieb he had taken on that ii - ight..--(FAliiet eheethig.) _ _ • Mr. bANKES rose to relieve himself, in a few . v. - ords, - fitin-f . j the' dwk Ward situation, in Which he was placed by the sp7.Mil'er 1 limey had just heard, containing a variety of charges' Witteli i l fte' e •cdamiitlered had been 'inbst unjustly heaped, 011 him. As to th 4 expressions attributed 'to him, .as to. his preferring death,'or b trig siretched on the floOr of that House, to the passing Of this Lill, he assured the HoUseht hail' never tittered The Hon. fientleman slid, that he only.clainmed for Ireland that it .shemillif be put on the same tbating with regard to its right of voting as, Engl a nd s t oo d on ; tint this Bill had 'for its object the taking away the ilectiVe franchise froth the. forty-shilling :freeholders withouf giving them any timing in return,' andl on that ground.alone he disapprorcd of it. li e , t h er ef o r e , 'should rooveae an'amendMent, that the Bill be read a second time this day six ninths. Mr. Secretary PEEL observed,: that from the very great de gree of excitement which • had been raised by the 1-lAourable Member for Winchelsca and his Right Honourable Frierq the:A ttori - fey-Oeheral for' Ireland, in their eloquent socccheq he felt it'very diffictilt to attract the attention of the [loose and to confine it to the real question before it.. His Hon. Prielitt (Mr.' Phinkett) had in - the course of his - speechdealredthat if he even were of opinion that the present _ Bill, had an .iatjiteioi±s tendeney, ( iiiid yet was a means of faeilititting the great ge neral measure of Catholic Enrancipaion. he would cheerfully acquiesce in it. He (Mr. Pell) was inelined ro`view the ques tion solely on its own merits, apart frtini any connection the Catholic Bill, and. if he we,re,,sati4iLd that it was calcu lated to' any good,'notimitlistionli,ie that it would litate the passing of the Catholic would not ,o e pos e it.—(Cheers.)—His Horiourable - 11:ighd had referred 'to an opinion which he (Mr. Peel) 'had' riven on this subject in. the year 1817, and had contrasted it with leis language of Thurs day . last. No ,v, atiliongh he !eel foreetrep that, in 11117 he Matt held such langnage, on looking infoli 'ltelbutut' that it was.peeeisely.in conformity with what_he, had stated in:the de= dehate on TfinitidY'.'l-I a 'C(IW not think' that'tkllet - Of 170 had produced all the evil. trance had been attribtrEd'-toeit ; as Mr. Burke had said 0:1 th:d"deceeion, flitiOen,te dlfKred . fi-orn office, and that n-anch•ike merely 'had' the - rig:l4'6i Ofliee attach:A to it. Ile admitted that, great abuses did exist hr Irish electiOns oat'aecount'of.the nornerons'fictitious freeholds as - described by Mr. O'Connell. Ile was therefore. prep,:r e d to give tii s tittervion to any measure that tytil a tendency eMe timlly to-p u t 'those abuses diiWn ; but fr. - ?m the manner in which the present Bill was brotmeh" under their he coold notlOok upon it as al.y security thr the poor Pl'Oteettrt free holder, or even as a c. , reactive of the perjuri,2s •mo much ebill planed or. If the. Bill were to be pr.'ssed forward at present, it would place the ,house under considerable embarrassmm,t and diflieulty,, although as he couldanit at once conclude that they - were called on to take an unwise or impolitic steer, yet he might falrly describe it as a precipitate one, and . one which, they were legislating in the absence of all' inrorne t Lion.--(Hear!)--Vet on !)-- Vet he would allow, that'if it's object were to strengthen the Protestant .interests in Ireland, he then might be brought reluctantly to give his vote tier it. Ile had, when ever the question of Reform, had been agitated in that house,- given his opposition to it. lie' had opposed the proPosition brought forward not long ago, for adding to the number of voters:l:Ate counties of Scotland. lids s!lotild be very loath turgive the first vote in favour of any re Boor' that went to diet franchiseany one who had the right of voting.- , • (Cheers.)._ Ile had listened with much satisfaction to the powerful and eloquent .sPeeeh of hii light Honouratile .Frrend the Attor hey-General for Ireland, though he did not think that the question had been properly considered by him. Ile (31y. Peel) Lad examined with- some •attettion, the. returns that had been made • to that Ilorise relative to the :Irish theibrs, containing the possessions of freehohls front t:n-tv to fifty pounds ; on linking at them,' he was struck with the Change which. the Bill proposed to make. Since the year 1618, there had been registered in Tyrone, 'no less than 13.000 torty-Shilling freeholders, and in the same- period, oily 273 of freeholders to the amount of twenty pounds. What would be the effect, then, of the present bill? Ills Ilan. Friend (Mr. Littleton) had himself railed doubts in his (Mr. Peel's) mind. He said that the increase of the franchLte of freeholders to five pounds, would only be an increase of the evil ; if that were true, might not the increasing it to ten pounds be also an increase of the evil in a s i m il ar proport i on ? What security did have \he ,lr. propose r ndividuals c o min g . u p to vote s h ou l d the . 3. 3didienmoit,esrayobaselrvvirersd, thaton tlie l -s i en hits s e s t aid nothing on the subject of securities. lint hisbil i l h e e on ,s ti th n e 4- le a clause, that the oath s h ou ld re l ate strictly to annexed to the Bill. Now, when be-looked for that Schedule ' he found that there was no such thing 'attached to' the Bill_ (Hear, hear !).-- it might be intended to add ft in the'CoMmit tee; but he thought that the. ItouSe ShoUld know what it was before it agreed to thesecond reading, in order that'it might'' fairly understand the •Manner in which it was legislating._ (1l ear, hear !)—Mr. O'Connell had saidohat the present mea sure would not materially add - to the interest of time Catholics, noticing that a gre:itt part of the landed property in Ireland was in the hands 'of the Protestants. He found that in the Northern Counties there existed the majority of the forty shilling freeholders ; they Were the'greattatise of the misery and distress that were so prevalent. in those counties.......ln kenny, great distress' , abounded, there were ,7e,t) fo e r n t r ;% : where hilliilga freeholders ; and front that 'county find two Members returned, who are in the Catholic interest: The County of Fermanagh is decidedly Protestant. In that 'county within the last eight - years 26,900 forty shilling free holders had been registered, anti - they had been content to re turn two Membersin the Protestant interest. He thotight - from those instances that the Protestant party would suffer.• His in ference might be erroneous, but still he contended that the louse required more information before it refillarrive at a Just .conchisioo. Ilia he for one would implore -the House to pause before it consented to disfranchise--to inquire into the situation 'of the Protestant and Presbyterian weavers in the North of Ire land before it passed that Bill. Again, in Niraterford, which .was one of the disturbed districts, there had been registered 7,000 forty shilling fr;eealninaldheer,s;thuirilefeolne: eighecounties of Ulster there had .singe the Year 1703; o l f m r e oe fore it came to a decision dn i r a n d n train, the same period , that been registered 190,000, and d ninewerbeillecanit9tter'fi7t.usitrerntsi'.loefr nersiit:6llBo;lnteolrinee had would s er i . e tir r re e i a d s th l r O hn B ep , ouUl Houseoa-t-iioftns freeholder would :the subject. He believed that the • number-of tire small tette .ments in Ireland - •arose from' -the. -merstocked- populatiOn, the state olt more than from a desire on the part of the- 'Protestant land landlord to increase' 'his' income. - He did not think that the effect any very important political object, as the ten pound far mers were very litthebetter Oran the forty-shilling freeholders ; and there would still exist the same noxious influence, airolitiOn of •the rights 'of the forty--shilli ng . which the noose s o much wished-to aftist guard.:-.4 ft - ea ' t ..lie would ask, what there was which *sliould'prevent a man from erecting at of houses, and conveying them in fee harped'sile Lind Irtlis leaving open; every avenite to perjury; ? He parddn of the 'House for going into -such unint ' 6erestme details—Uie:tts, hear •) - t they were necessary' to 'she* the Is on midi - he dissented' farm' the supporters 'of grown. t pre sent Bill. The Bill - tlid - not i propose any remed y for the evil's. • ted out by Mr. O'Connel : the rdmong' the franchise' to ten pointed nds did nothing; pou I and 'As honest conclusion was, that a . decision at the piesent time would he', precipitate, and . that, it would not strengthen .the Protestant inter est. He hoped that the anoi,nalics which had been brought before- the Com . mittee *Otild• be'removed by a, calm, deliberate' inquiry., and ; he thought that , that inquiry mig ht begone into: next Session. Ile entreated that -the House would . . not come hastil t o 1 measure winch affected , in;re' -.nitration pn a. '''‘`^ • ost important interest • Ireland; most -- ce •t m iniftant cyegr • in • but the benefit of all the di s , • Iltnat it would gmveat ussron to which it was entitled. PAR NELL could not admit that further inqui necessary. Ile referredthe House to the evidence or the was man Catholic Archbishop of Tuam, in support of the statement ''"respecting the evils of elections: Ile contended that nothing.batt tl)e abolition of 40s. fxeeholders would remove the evil.. .Sitice b e anxious o b the measure had. been agitated, several meetings b a d b ee n h e ld . hi Ireland, and. not a single dissenting voice had b ee n ' ra i se d against it: ~ oouield ulterior Mr. 1 7 . FITZGMALI), haying the . honour to re p res e nt a county in.lreland, could .not avoid expressing the ground' on which he should vote for the second reading of the Bill. If p : d tc r ob n t o 4 t in de i. lie p t endon ti t h h o e u Ca m t n h o o t he o licß e4 el g ie e r h B l64 illA ifi s o h jdets of the measure. He objected to the qiialificatiOn. I n raising it to ill/. Many would be indUced to. - commit pethary. The Hon. Member thought the qualification should have been higher, but he was anxious, neve r theless, for the success of the measure. The Hon. M. t: Cr.. Supported the bill. Mr. It. MA,li TIN saitl, in voting for thiS li.ll.'he ........It.on- Suit his own feelings.. Ile thought it ri4ht to say this in,:asi:iri . .. had been forced upon thealouse„ by tl , e Attouncy-lie.ienti 10‘. Ireland, a nd all .thptie, who sumi.lri t•,! the' Cativitii.; gut sftin.— Considerikig it assisted that nicasurt, he `:lmultt voteioi . it, at tte '.11 . = timehe could not co eise nt to ca..t otlititti oit'tll qs• l'ev hblders. Ile had knownWhenShip loads of that deperiptiy i n. of rioter. had been confined to Vote for a jetiticuler indiyiau4,,ch4t . they had remained lime in giYing their votes for the person lo wittom they were devoted. It was, iii his opin;,m, t , i bes? . F.,:t t , bring them like bees to the hive for the purpose of «l ills; . t., en). _, ' :gr. 8.1101W.Na . 40 VI; was unwilling tit; question Sle - eil.l come 4 . 1 a division; before . fie expreSaed 'fiis , seri tiMen ts. . .1 :: :a Ore ''l Fioreo conneeteti with the . inter,e„.stkqf Ireland oeVer caeie lie f e Parliament. Ile never had heard any oppc:lfieri to it not of doors. The flight :Honourable SeCretetry,tor the'llonie Ik -Ipartmeat had asked what wotild btethe . .c*c't of this 1 - eoastire • in the North of Ir e l an d. Il e thouglit it %V 11; 'supported in the ,North of Ire w land, and that' th e ad o p tio n o f i t as rcconiniended :14 it:. North of Ireland: The IlOneurz.tble 11.1en04.,,ii.,i prove itlie,b:ol erect of the system o f vo tin g ill Ireland,;lreland,;stet* ,that a tleAttpte.pf, large lautled prope r ty i n Ireland, haying never Vis A 1 - , is . estate iii that part of die United -.Kingdom, was. I bsltgeci,to discharge the 'duty of High Sheriff. The tientleman was unwilling to go, and said, if the Secretary comPels me, to ! sdli-e the office of Sheriff, I will be even with .liiiii. , I will i nittle myself a ,Alen - iber of Parliament.. Ji e Lilco took out 2,00 i) I Joltses, subdivided his land uniting that nuin'oer of tenants, and ! got in LO Parliament without aakinie one man permission . to do so. 1 The remedy for these abused would beu proper qualifiCation.-- Ile believed many substafial freeholders would be disfiatichis ed, but for others lie s hould say the more the..better. They were okiectionableL.-BiSbOp „firefly had described those unfortunate IV :.errs going along the mild in rags and withoneelioes to give t! eir votes. „After a sort of drill, until they could preinourice tl e name (if . .Awir. master, they went to vote. S,tielie state of patible with the freedom of election ; copse q totals the proposed inea.sure wits superior to the present -system. -111. in; (l a . s ll i iJ ne l7C%l I NSON coin PI i mewed the Hon: lenther t li ~ flr,. e trapagh upon the manly coorse _he hod pursued with re. : st.:eet io the great measure to afford reli4tO Irehind. For the . Bill beftire the House he could not vote; . lie, ;antic! not con- &flit to iliStianehise ,nine-tenths Of the voters of .Ireland, with- . obt,forther inquiry.-[Here the House beca - .ne impatient; and cit4e,l londly, " Question ! question !"I—The Hon. Aleinber .. ~ , S3ALIIC could not consent to be put down upon the imperial - qnestion. It was impossible :taffy interruption could disgrace leini, noel„slibilld it silence him. He could not consent to this Measure wiilipikt more inquiry. •IV hat was the -state of.. tine ese e , il 'lt Was stated that the Irish Gentlemen, after disgrace fdi.COnditet.wiili - .their tenantry, carne forward .to disfanchise the V e ry, nip - I : Wham they hail corr u pted. The y came into that House to retaard.their own disgrace., Na man lainclited..more thatilte did the disgusting scenes.carried oil at elections. They had, however, oppressed' theSe electors—they, had: compel) ; t ! .them tweet in a corrupt w a y, an d in this instanee had coiee •tbrward t : cruslethem. Ile had a right to sPealt for the fra,. _ chase in Ireland. Ile would rather lasi i ,hill, Bill , than . . receive it on such tern's. ThiS Bill veal,tobe taken as security. No security was wanting. 'lii-.se were all eutaerahle attempts to get securities. Admit the people - to the, privileges of tl:e Coostitution, and their affection to the (Jos-eminent would be scent its enough. air. GOULDt..4l.N..assured die-House he should not take much time in expres , itiliis sentiments. tie watt as ordy e anx lee s to explain, the vote he should give, in order that it inii;fit not be misinterpret e d. _Any dispositio n h e m i g h t have f,:;lrto vote fbr the measur e had been removed by the ake.ration.otthe MIL They wcre called on to consent to a measure of danger, and to take as a security another measure, wh telt was Writ to Curr ie into operation far years.to wale. He aid not s . ay. the - measure would not remedy some existing evils, but before he consented to take the remedyt be' must know what it realletwas e andallo yie extent of the 'evil. ' 'There Was nothing' tO'';ditii: the iLin: ' ger was of that extent to warrant tile - interposition of Patna- IMont. Some saitlit lihdled:to the subdivision Of land. Others Said it arose from a different cause. Much evidence had been taken which bore on the qUeStion. The Ritrht Hon. St,t4etary „ begged leave to read sanneof the evidence taken beftire a Select Committee of' the llouae : General liourke's evidence went to saY; 'that thesysteM a forty shilling freeholds did not:pro duce the superabundant population; or the .5/kitititt4 sithaiinsitm Of the land in the county of Limerick. The latter existed be fore the system was intrOdliceil. He thonglifilieTorty shilling freeholders felt a pride in the exercise of their franchise, and 'et ' being able to return a Parliament man."—(llear, hear!) —col. Curry, another witness who4b . eviderfee was also not yet re ported--:,what con'clusiOn 'dill be 'draw from these. facts"? that Parliament was only proceeding on an inquiry, which ought to be concluded before the present bill was thought of.' Ler 'Rini observe; that the Hon.. Jleiuber for Galway bore t:Stitnohy - to the independence of the itti, , . freeholders, even under'coeicion and every other suffering. Hr. Ktlly, however, anti - his Hon. Friend the-Dlember for - Armagh gave different opitiioos, and from that contrariety of judgment the Hbuse was not in a state • to legislate on the subject. lTpon ChM as well as other grounds which he should not detain the House in stating, he should vote against thin trill.—(hear, hear!) - Lord MILTON Could . not give a silent vote on this question. lie was inclined to join in the sentiment' of the Menthe: ter Galway, that with a view to •forward the' other rneastire before Parliament, it would at least be advisable to pass this.the pre sent stage: The evils of the system be, with the Might Hon. Secretary(Mr.Peel)adinitted; but with him he likewisetiotibted • Whether thisßill would _prove a corrective. llucboftlie mischief Complained of arose from the mode of registry, and the very pre vetitivesinfrodUced to - clink abuse. lint if any thing urged hint to support the measure, it was because it Mined a deadly blow '. . at th. 2 oligarchy of Ireland, cif.which he (Lord Al.) was hithself One; till that oligarchy was destroyed the state of society in that country . would not be such as was desirable. 'l'he oli garchy was, he thought, too powerful t and he wished tit des id. some of their power amon g a sobstarittal middle class, if it wero possible to create s uc h a - clasS, which, However, he ft ared was impracticable. On theSe grounds he should vote for the 13111 now ; but he trusted they would not allow it to gn . out 'of those walls until the Catholic Bill had receivedtheltoYid Assent.. Mr. GRATTAN oliserved, if any tiring - could in.ike him support the I3ill it would be its connection with Catho lic Entail. . ciliation. In principle be was opposed to it, asattacking popn hit rights in the 'gross. If they struck off 2.1111,p00 Irish eleetors in One night, Might not the principle be next ex(lii d &d land. lie, for one, Was no friend to this stir( fit would rather the rights Of the people were lift;4ll9.4yis found them. If the gentry Of Ireland did their duty, ihe evils so often and justly declard to exist in that country, would soon disappear. Nothing, however, shoUld induce hint to Vote for the Bill, which he regretted had been introduced as an aiti liary to Catholic Emancit:ation. Sir F. - BURDErf could rot consent to seiiarate th s rill from that for Catholic Emancipation, and therefore,,honi,i it all his support. I f the details were not teuicily ,su ii the taste of all pa:ties, their correction was the busfpf:,:s of th e . Cormnittee. The Ilonoif.able Baronet Prnceeded to ihei ce idle State of the 411s,freehulders in Ireland, as deiribetl'hy M r . Wakefield ; and observ e d th a t li e h a d never evett - 11e.Ard II any one who had not declared the system One Of pie ,c urtest evils of that couniry. For one, he conceived they Obtained :1V great boort in getting this bill as a centriroutise for, E;maneipation. When the Catholics were content to take their,. freedom thus restritited, the opportunity for fouciliiiiiii - gthetn, ought not to be lost. ' Ile understood that:lreland , neyet.los., so tranquil as at this moment, and . that the, cireittnstalee '.Wholly attributable to the prospect which late events Nell out 7.- (ikar !) , :-4o the prospect of having the wrongs of de b people ' redressed in consequence of the inquiries now Making - liefor the Committee of both Houses. - The Witnegies"..thetkefailaketl,' for the first time clime in cOntact, and knei e ach 'otliei;_aritl' both parties found they had been labouring . ! He implored the House not r e j ec t thi s B4l— ri ot to coli.itter it distinct front t h at Which had- been already . sanetioned, ;:passing both to tranquillize Irel a nd, and cement the Union' kid 'happiness of the two countries. Cries of "Question.") IIIr. , I)ENAIAN said -that he did not Wish, to intrude him self upon the liouse at. so late an hour, but he felt., it i iltity, to: himself and lo the House to s tate hi s objections io - tliis , !although he felt considerable paip in .so doing.• He thonglir •thi's Bill unnaturally coupled with' the questibit Of ';:indiretpa 7 ,. don, and upon constitutional grounds WaSbohnd . to oppeke tt. Ile heard with 'surprise of the trifling siiCriflO of the elective' frariliiise-of the right of election- , -and he asked 'What share was it intended to give the people of Irel a nd in the govern.. 'iodine of the country The question was not Merely Irish ;it belon:.,red, , to them all, it belonged peculiarly to the. English flonse of Commons, legislating for the general good. lie 'drdittled the exalt - Tie of this Bill ; lie dreaded it would . be place, untiiit pr ivileges wi o re f brathe , drawn into a precedent and both in p ra ctice and hi theory he r , el)r p o i la e :it s ed t peply o f t hisi diminu tion attotr e of s I . i idisaissed in a con.mittee. An alteration was pr oposed byY - the htohneltl r ights tak e