The Sun. — London, England, 1827-02-28 00:00:00

Ilinsself from it.--(Hear, hear, hear.)—What did the profession lay on the subject? That the great failure arose from the bank ruptcy question. It was impossible to give the Lord Chancellor the credit he demanded for disinterestedness. But the Lord Chan cellor was a diffisult person to deal with. He had all the patron. age of the law ; he had . extensive patronage of other descriptions ; and he was a pleasing, amiable, agreeable ge ntlem a n.— ( A l augh.) The Noble and Learned Lord had no doubt threatened to resign ; but, great as his abilities were, there were certainly other men who could sit in a Court of Equity as well as Lord Eldon. In fact, he was convinced that men with only half the Noble and Learned Lord's talents, but with a little vigour and Main intellect, would speedily get rid of the arrears by which the Court of Chan -cry was at present disgraced. With respect to the plan now proposed for expediting the business of the Court of 'Chancery, it reminded him of some plans which, when he was a - youn g Member of the House of Commons, and Mr. Palmer pro posed his mail-coach plan, it had been attempted to substitute for that plan ; but by which only half an hour was gained in cases in which by Mr. Palmer's plan the gain was above six hours. So it was with the plan for expediting the proceedings in the Court of Chancery now recommended ; and the only result of it would be that instead of a suitor in that Court suffering the infliction of tieing Subjected to six years' proceedings in the Court, he might perhaps be let off with five years. With regard to the proposition respect !ng bankruptcy which had been made by this famous Commission, It Was so absurd that the Right Hon. and Learned Gentleman was lery glad to abandon it. In addition to all the load of expence Attached to the country in bankruptcy cases, the Report reemns ':needed the appointment of ten more Commissioners, to be ap lathfted by Lord Eldon ; and who were to sit and heat appeals 'for te purpose of relieving the Noble and Learned Lord. He \ l'esi confident that at least three parts of the Bar were satisfied that,the Court of Chancery could not possibly go on, without the separation of the bankruptcy cases. In the Committees which 30 in 1811 and 1812, it was given in evidence that two or thrte Petitions of bankruptcies were almost every day set down for hear ing before the actual cause-paper, which was the real jurisdiction rof the Court. Mr. Cook, and a variety of other persons, had told the commission that this separation was the only relief that mould be effectually given. But would the Commissioners state where they were to find a man to conduct this business? would say that the Chief Baron of the Exchequer was a man of 4 ligh repute, and whose other avocations would not prevent his Undertaking this service. Here they were in the eighteenth cen laugh)—here they were in the eighteenth century— (laughter.) --well, then, the nineteenth century—and such a ne cessary re f orm as this could not be effected. It was said that no Person was to he found, either on this or that side of the House, qualified to enter into such an office. There were persons in the profession of the law fit to hold any rank or fill any high station, and in whom the public placed as perfect confidence as they ever had done in the Lord Chancellor. But if Gentle men en the other side of the House were suspicious of the talents or integrity of those who voted with them, let them turn an eye to this aide, and they would find persons fully qualified for such an office.—(Hear, hear! and laughter.)— It Was plain to the House, that as the Court of Equity was at Present managed, it was the heaviest affliction upon the subject. Persons taking this view of the question had been assailed by slums, but he would answer them facts—Non mews hie sermo. He was not the only individual wile arraigned this Court and the conduct of its Judge, who, hs, would assert, ought himself to have refocused the abuses ss:nich the present Bill was intended to remedy. Let any irsntletnan read the daily papers , and oh. :ry e t h e process of. the Court. Let him mark the day on which he cause was, set down, and then trace the postponement of hear -1,.11' a nd 'olie perpetual delays of judgment. It was not fa ir to cast t At'tions upon Solicitors, they were not in the House to protect e ss " erase lree• He knew many Solicitors who were men of the most sssoourable character. He had been informed by one of these fl_' e n i tletnen that he had been waiting the decision of a cause which been set down fifty times for judgment.—(Hear, hear !) .Another Gentleman had obtained a Judgment in the Chancery 'Court, for 23,5001. The person against whom he had obtained 2 118 Judgment, had said to him, " if you do not take less, I will "PPlai against the decision of the Chancellor, and you will not only lose the i n t eres t o f th e mon ey. but it will be many years _net'or e the c ause w ill b e d ec id e d . " Th e th rea t was o f a nature not to be r es i ste d , and the party consented to accept o f 20,0001. hie all this, and mu c h m ore th an this, striking him in the face, n u' Right Hon. and Noble Friend (the Master of the Rolls), in order to get rid of this curse upon the country, was instructed to nog in a small tinsel Bill ; and the House was to be told that if this did not do, Ministers would afterwards grant them something elle. He hoped the noase would go fairly into the question. He believed that it would end in a Parliamentary Inquiry, whiCh Would thoroughly sift the evil. Mr. DANIEL WHITTLE HARVEY said, he 'should briefly address the House upon this most important and interesting subject. The practice of the Court of Chancery was all usurpation of the best principles of the Common Law. His notion of equity was, that its office and utility were to soften the asperities of the Common Law, and to supply the defects of the Statute Law. With reference to the Bill before the House, he was confident that every Member must feel himself greatly disappointed. The suggestions made by the Noble and Learned Lord had no advantage whatever, nor could any good arise from adopting his measures. The Masters in Chancery re ceived by far too high a payment for their services. They re ceived for their subordinate duties nearly as much as the Judges of she Courts of Law—for the average compensation to a Master in chancery Was 3,500/. a year. He could tell Ministers a way in which they mi g ht h ave ma d e t h e i r me asure popular by making St econo mical. Why did they not take this comp ensation to the M asters in Chancery out of that inordinate fund which arose from Each mode in which commissions of bankruptcy w ere p assed. •seli commission of bankruptcy received on an average 500/. a Year, for administering a system of law, whose machinery for de fects and bad consequences was decidedly one of the most incom petent and injurious which was to be found even in this country. --(Hear, hear, and cheers.)—lf the Ri g ht Hon. Gentleman (Mr. cr eel) had a sin cere d es i re to i mprove the system in all its branches l . well as in th ose to w hi ch he had devoted his attention, this state ofth et Bank rup t L aws, or the mode of administering them, would at continue long. But it was well known to Government that the present system o f t h e Bankrupt Laws was one of the first of Y s and why was it no t amongs t th e fi rs t o bj ec t s of remedy?— (Hear,i hear, hear.)—The appointment of Bankrupt Commis sioner, was well known to every gentleman connected with Go v,,!rornent. Th e a buse had been of long standing. It was no t, g e many other evils, known to a few, and felt, though severely t ' hY those whom it affected ; it was notorious, and loudly °omplained of. Young men who had had no experience— "ho knew nothing of the law in theory , and as little Practice, but to whom 5001. a-year was an inviting object, couaidered themselves fit to be Commissioners of Bankrupts.— t ar ' h ear) ; —or the reverse was t he case--old men, upon W f ra the profes s i on o f th e law had long since marked the stam p shein"lnPeteneY, were candidates, and recipien ts of this o ffi ce.— arui t td heard much about the ability, the talents, the virtues, otl ter they h excellent qualities of the present Lord Chancellor— roentiad heard too the delay complained of in the various depart_ over which his Lordshippresided, ascribed to one cause h h il i d to ._ the other—in a word, to every body but his Lordship rnael f• But he would hiask whether it was possible to expect that s Lord,h; p would c on sent to the slightest alteration which was he i s 7r v : a to deprive him of the charms and einolumeuts which under the Great Seal ?—(Hear, hear.)--Was it at all I W ikheil e y h that the L or d Ch ancellor would give up the 15/. or the 20/. that th e 1.1,1 e bankruptcy case afforded him? lie firmly believed fr om the , r d Chancellor derived not less than 20,000/. a-year mi n s itorial "ankruptcy cases alone.—(a cry of " No,") from the Re an 'that .it.was the furth er be nnhesP—He contended that such was the fact,; and great cause of the evils complained of.— ask e _ eban ‘"o eei n ie t r hat one of the proposed alterations was, to add a wouki be the e to the Court of Exchequer. What, he asked, Barons of the Extent of this remedy ? They had already four them look at the eer, and what duty did they perform ? Let alone disposed of Court of King's Bench, in which the Chief Jus ticethe four Barons of th e cases in the course of the year, while and the Court itself e Exchequer had scarcely anything to do ; the p ro f mious only afforded situations for the old women of did not get throu h r, hear ! and a laugh), who, amongst them, Judge in the Court one -fifth of the business his intenti on of Kin ' B performed by a single to troubl e th g a eneh—(Hear, hear.)—lt was not gest, as there were twelve e House much longer, but he must su - able Gentleman the hi Z i r aater s of whom the Right Honour ( advisable, that all appeals o f f the theses)as the head, it would supreme Master ; and that, from sters should be to the should be first to the Vice- Chancel l or b an kanruptcy, the appeals Lord Chancellor should have an a, ultimately that the no previous interference in the ea.Pezellant jurisdiction, he having Mr. GEORGE BANE that the Lord Chancellor, instead of having th House each Bankrupt Commission, had no hire Thg 15/. or e 0/ upon his income from that branch of dut: 28.. and that 1 6,000/. or 20,0001., but from 3,000/. b ro ught him not to 5 ,000 r° 1 utmost—(Hear, hear.)—He denied altogether that th ystar at the disposition on the part of the Commissioner s of Baukr ere was any Proceedings, with a view to personal advantage% lints to delay Mr. J. SMITH said that he should wait pati ent ly for th ose re f orms w hi c h were co ntemplated, an d expressedi conyictionthat great i m p rove ments would take place in Bankruptcys subject. CAM, the law were more clearly and properly defined on the Mr. BROUGHAM : I cannot help regretting that has fallen to my lot to offer my opinions upon this very iMpor- tant question, without having heard any thing from the other side of the House, in answer - to the able arguments of the Hon. Member for Colchester, and to the equally powerful and impres sive observations of my Hon. Friend the Member for Durham (Mr. M. A. Taylor)- - -obttrvations of such a nature, that, in my mind, they called for the fullest explanation and answer, if answer could have been given, from the Honourable Gentlemen who Have taken the other side of this question.—(Hear, hear, hear !) My Hon. Friend (Mr. M. A. Taylor) has the honour of having originated a motion to remedy those abuses ; he has also the credit of having struggled with unabated zeal, against them from time to time; and he has now, unlike the projectors of other great reformations, the satisfaction of witnessing, that although every thing he has sought to accomplish is. not yet conceded, still that the principle upon which he 'set out is no longer attempted to be denied in any quarter.—(Hear !)--Remedy after remedy had been proposea at various periods for grievances of the most press ing nature--scarcely a year had elapsed in which the gross and crying abuses of the Court of Chancery had not been pointed out by many Hon. Members, but by none more strenuously than by my Hon. and Learned Friend (Mr. Sohn Williams), now, unfor tunately, no longer a tiember of this House; and yet, notwith standing there Various recommendations—as far as regards any thing effectual being done—as far as regards any measures of prac tical and real relief—as far as regards the application or the pro posal of anything like a remedy for a mischief so enormous, that I should fatigue the House if I were, for the hundredth time, to give it the names it deserves, or the expressions ex torted, whether fitin lawyer or layman, from suitor, or only (as lam happily myself) spectator of the miseries of suitors--a mis chief, the like of which, I verily believe, no other nation on the face of the civilized globe ever suffered itself to he contaminated or mocked with—a mockery of what ought to be the pure ad ministration of justice. I say, as far as regards a remedy for this prodigious evil, nothing—less than nothing—worse than nothing been accomplished. We are then in the beginning of the subject—we have inquired, but made no progress ; we have searched but found not; we have gone through the matter, but have arrived at no result; we have groped iu the dark fcr two years, and for one year reflected upon our gropings, in order to ascertain whether any faint glimmering of light has broken in upon us ; but as to any thing being done, or anything proposed or brought before the House, for this people, who have been so long mocked, and will now be insulted if they are still to he mocked, we have made just no progress at all, and we stand in twenty-seven where we stood in twenty-four.—(Hear, hear.) — And who, let me ask, has a right to say he is surprised ? What man is so forgetful—what man is so thoughtless and unreflecting, as to ha--e a right to say "I am astonished that nothing has been ac complished !" He was forewarned that nothing would be done— that nothing could be expected to be done by a Commission so constituted, emanating from such a quarter, and pro posed with such views. At the head of the Commission stood the Learned Judge whose conduct was to be the subject of inquiry, and from whom the proposal of the Commission emanated. (Hear, hear.) The principle of the examination was neither more nor less than this—is the delay of which all men complain, which acts upon the suitors as a denial of justice ; which makes this public Court of Justice a public nuisance—the fault of the system, or of the individual who placed himself at the head of his own Board to inquire into his own conduct? (Hear, hear.) We are told, indeed, that his Lordship did not attend--that be did not take the Chair. Than who did take it? Was it the Vice-Chan- cellor, or the then Master of the Rolls, promoted by the Lord Chancellor, from the ranks of the profession, to assist him, and to snake up for his deficiencies, in one of the many Courts created for the purpose of removing from the shoulders of one man a burden which no one man was capable of sustaining? If the Noble Lord did not attend, he was ably and amply represented, and his interests duly guarded ; for who were the other Members of the Commission? Masters in Chancery and Commissioners of Bankrupts were, doubtless, in regular and patient attendance, struggling with each other for the sweets of office and the favours of the Noble Lord ; and to these are to be added my Honourable and Learned Friend (Dr. Lushington), and the late Member for Lincoln (Mr. R. P. Smith). What could two men, however impartial, however earnest, accomplish in such a melancholy mi nority ? If they had been two angels, in this den w;th Chancery retainers and Chancery expectants—with Judges, Master, and Bankrupt Commissioners, most of them hungering and thirsting for promotion, and incited by the recent advancement of one who so little expected it, it would have been nothing less than a mi racle if they had been able to resist the tide, into the very midst of whi c h they were plunged. We all know how these matters are conducted. The Lord Chancellor professes himself before the Commissioners a very ill-used man, " more sinned against than sinning ;" he beats his breast, and tears his reverend hair—he sheds salt tears, and talks of his God and his conscience. —(Hear, and laughter.)—He declares himself distressed at the poverty of his family, with only a million and a half, plus the inheritance of his good name.—(Hear, and laughter.)---And then comes the di vision—the counting of noses ; and the result before such a tri bunal may be guessed without much danger of mistake. The Lord Chancellor, indeed, seldom attends, and for his purpose, per haps, the seldomer the better, for the greater the influence of his presence when he does make his appearance ; it was not making himself cheap ; it was not coming forward on all paltry occasions, as if training his colleagues in the Commission to vote in his fa vour. He was well aware that he was in good and safe hands, for the purpose of stifling inquiry and producing delay. He managed the whole affair with the most enviable dexterity ; he met the supposed inquiry with all the charms of the most en tire good humour—with all the fascinations of his venerable age, and with that profound learning and high talent which are blended with the history of the law beyond the memory of any of the individuals upon whose minds he was to operate.. With all these claims to respect and veneration, and laying aside that authority he had a right to assume, and the very deposition of which was so well calculated to captivate and mislead, he en tered the assembly and prevailed almost at the instant' of his arrival. The inquiry dwindled as to its objects and extent, was mitigated in its form and manner, paralysed in its power, and neutralised in its results.—(Hear, hear, hear !) I per ceive a smile on the countenances of the Right Honourable Gentlemen on the other side. They naturally think that it would be ridiculous for me to conjure up all this machinery, in order to move Masters in Chancery, since they must natu rally feel the strongest attachment both to the man and the system ; but he had also to produce an effect upon my Hon. and Learned Friend, and upon the Hon. Member for Lincoln. The rest of the Commission voted one way, thought one way, and sawwith one pa i r o f eyes, and those were t h e eyes o f J o hn Lord E on--(Cheers.)—O n such a subject it was just as inevitable that they should see with his eyes, as that John Lord Eldon should see with his own. I wish, therefore, to call the attention of the House to the situation in which we now find ourselves. Out of the whole Inquiry h as ar i sen a mass of matter , of which it has ° th been truly said that ni ne -t en th s re l ate to the mere practice and details of the Court of Chancery, a reform in which might have been adopted and carried into effect by th e orders of his Lord s hip alone. The remaining tenth was, perhaps, an improvement, required an Act of Parliament. It relates to the taking away appeals from the Master's office , and altering the jurisdiction of in matters of bankruptcy. But (says my Right Honourable and Learned Friend, if he will still allow me to call him so after his advancement), the matters of detail are so con nected with the rest that they ought both to be included in a statute. I wish he had given us a specimen of the kind, for his speech, able as it was, and abounding in illustrations and examples relative to the jurisdiction of a Court of Equity, and the progress of a suit, and its conclusion (of which, by the bye, we never hear but in speeches), contained no specimen of the combi nation of the matter of detail with the matter of more general importance. The suggestion now is, that we shall do all by bill, and give the Chancellor a dispensing or sus p ending power. is that in consistency with my Hon. Friend's argument? The Chancellor is vindicated on the ground that he has so many occu pations, that he could not turn his attentions to these reforms; but surely he must have had plenty of time to issue a short order, which should merely suspend all the existing forms, on the ground that he did not approve them. The Chancellor, however, is to be allowed, at his discretion, to suspend all the orders Parliament may enact. Is this, I would ask the House a fit mode of legis lating ? The two branches of the Legislature adopt a measure, after much deliberation, and this measure receives the sanction of •the other Sovereign, besides the Lord Chancellor in his sovereignty, of which we have heard for the first time to night. The three estates of the realm having thus determined upon the reform of the equity jurisdiction, one would supoose, that it only remained to be carried into execution. But no ; we dare not do it. There is a power behind the Throne greater than the Throne and the two Houses of Parliament. We must first secure the concurrence of Lord Eldon ; we must mitigate his wrath ; and we must yndd to him, as the Commissioners did before us, ere we can venture to legislate without leaving him a controlling power—(Hear, hear!)—Permit me to say, that my Right Hon. and Learned Friend has here taken a leaf out of the book of the Commissioners, when he talks of the Sovereignty of th e Great Seal, and an accroachment, as lawyers term it, by the 188 propositions of the Report. He gives the Chancellor a power which the Sovereign does not enjoy.—to dispense with the execution of an Act of Parliament. Ana how (Ines he vindicate this proposi tion ? By a reference to a case, which, when looked into, if not dia metrically opposite, has no reference whatever to the point he wishes to establish. The Statute of the 12th Geo. I. creates the office of Accountant-General of the Court of Chancery. The Lord Chan cellor had made certain orders relating to most immaterial matters, namely, the mode of accounting with the Master, keeping the bonds of the suitors, and directing that the Master, with the six Clerks, should go to the Bank and open the chest, and with his finger and thumb take out certain securities there deposited, on givinc , a written receipt. These were most trifling regula tions of detail, but Parliament thought fit to legislate upon them ; and it is enacted that this order may be dispensed with by leave of the Lard Chancellor. The two cases are not to be compared, for the proposition now before the House relates to the most important points in the constitution of the Court of Chancery. If it do not, my argument falls to the ground, and my Right Hon. and Learned Friend triumphs in his precedent of the 12th Geo. I. But we have not yet got to the end of the dif ficulties in which we are involved. It is a painful, or at anv rate it is a Most unpleasant duty, to make any observations which may by possibility be construed into personality, even towards a great public officer. But my belief is, and that opinion I share with many honest men who have gone before me—with some of the ablest men who live—with the profoundest lawyers in the Court of Chancery, and with the most experienced practitioners in our other Courts, who have studied, examined, and watched, the judi cial conduct of the high individual to whom I alit:Ale; that it is the man, the individual Judge, John Lord Eldon, more than the system, that is to blame with reference to all these evils.— (Much cheering.)—On former occasions, I have given my rea sons for this opinion, and I have admitted, as I do admit, that it arises, in some degree, from laudable scrupulousness. It pro . .... ceeds from a slowness and unwillingness to pronounce an opi nion, long after that opinion had been in fact formed, and which he does not adopt slowly or hesitatingly, for no man has a better right, from the qualifications I have enumerated, to arrive at an early decision. He also evinces a perseverance in that opinion which might be called pertinacity in any man less acute, less ex perienced, less learned, or less accomplished in all departments of his profession. Therefore I say that no man is better entitled quickly to form and firmly to hold his opinions upon cases brought before him ; but he has an unaccountable, an unfortunate, and almost a morbid infirmity, which prevents him from mak ing up his mind, and pronounaing a judgment (won an opinion he has formed.---(Cheers)—l am told that the Chancellor is overwhelmed with business—that he has snore occupations than any one man can get through—that he is laden with snore duties than, peradventure, any two men can discharge—and that it is no wonder, therefore, that he leaves some of them undone. I agree with my Right Hon. and Learned Friend in the explanation he has given of some of the delays, which arise from the attorneys in Chancery having too much business- I only marvel that he does not apply this reasoning to the head of the Court. If a man had too much to do, he of course neglects all those matters which need not be performed by a particular hour. That which applies to an Attor ney will “pply to a Chancellor ; for the lowest practitioners will be governed by the same circumstances as the head of the profes sion. The Keeper of the Great Seal and the Speaker of the House of Lords mem ; :,elides, have some business of his own—he has ae..-i:lnulated a large revenue which he must manage, and he has besides a vast patronage, legal and clerical, to be dispersed amongst his adherents. His Parliamentary duties are laborious, not merely as presiding over one branch of the Legislature, but as the most effective and able debater ox the side of that Government of which he forms so distinguished a Member. He has, besides, high functions as the confidential and highly influential (if I may use the expression) adviser of the Crown. He is much about the person of the Sovereign, much with the Members of the Cabinet, and he is in constant intercourse with persons of dis tinction at Court and in Parliament. With all these multifarious employments, unless you can find a man not only above the rank of a Solicitor, but even far above the qualifications allotted to frail humanity, some of them must be neglected and postponed. What I have here stated is in perfect accordance with the explana tion of my Right Hon. and Learned Friend, who has lately been advanced to preside over a Court of which he will be one of the greatest ornaments that ever entered it. When he has obtained more experience, he will find that some person or other has mis instructed him in another part of his speech, where he asserted that there has been no arrear and no accumulation since the ap pointinent of Lord Gifford as the Vice. Chancellor. He will permit me to inform him that the grossest delusion has been practised upon him in this respect. I need only refer to a case printed under the authority of a learned and excellent person who was Counsel in it. I allude to ex-parte M‘Naughton, which was commenced in 1820 ; and as one fact is worth twenty assertions, I will mention one or two of its leading features. It was an appeal from that admirably con stituted body—given up on all hands—the Commissioners of Bankrupts. It was a petition against the appointment of As signees by five creditors, whose debts amounted to 427/. The debts of the whole body of creditors were about 20,0001. The petition was brought on ; it was heard over and over again be fore the Vice-Chancellor, and before the Chancellor on appeal, and the case ran the gauntlet of hearings, re-hearings, reports and ex ceptions, and all the train of interminable litigation. The case commenced six or seven years ago, and there it is at this moment, at the head of a list which I read this morning, in the publication of my friend Mr. Montague. The estimated expences of this pro ceeding are 5,0001.—a sufficient proof, I should imagine, of the operose nature of Chancery litigation. My Right Hon. and Learned Friend has drawn a very agreeable picture of a Chancery suit, and by means of his bright and fairy colouring, has not only rendered it almost fascinating, but has shewn that it is as innocent as a suck ing babe. lam afraid, after I have endeavoured to daub it, the bantling would scarcely be recognised ; but when we see that 5,000/. have been expended upon debts amounting to only 427/., it is quite enough, without any effort on my part, to render a proceeding in Chancery more disgusting. I may add, that the briefs of my excellent Friend in the course of the suit, being weighed in the scale, not of law and justice, but of tallow chand lery, amounted to 251bs. ; but whether they were weighed by troy or avoirdupois, I proess myself unable to determinine.— (Cheers and laughter.)—Therefore it is, that men cease not to cry out against the jurisdiction of this Court ; therefore it is that they will not hold their peace ; that they will not be put off with palliatives, but that they insist upon a speedy and adequate reme dy for this portentous evil.—Sir Samuel Romilly, many years ago, contended that the arrear in Chancery arose from the man ner in which business was done ; and I have his authority, if not that of the Vic:-Chancellor also, for accusing not merely the sys tem, but the man by whom that system is administered.—(Cheers.) The evils of the Court of Chancery were at that time such, upon the confession of the Chancellor's best friends, that some remedy was on all hands allowed to be necessary. What was the remedy proposed? Nothin g less than the creation of a new Court of Chancery.—(Hear, hear.)—For that purpose a Bill was intro duced, which passed the House of Lords without objection ; but in this House it was ably and brilliantly opposed by an Hon. and Learned Friend of mine (Sir J. Mackintosh), who is now, and has generally of late, I regret to say, been absent from illness. It was opposed, too, by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Canning) now Secretary for Foreign Affairs; and, with a weight of learn ing and experience, by the very Learned and Right Hon. Gentle man (Sir J. Leach), who is now himself the Vice-Chancellor.— The Lord Chancellor has always been complaining of the vast mass of business he has to toil through. Yet Lord Thurlow and all his predecessors were competent to bear this burden. But Lord Eldon must, for his relief, be invested with the power to create a new Court of Chancery, which has already nearly doubled the business.—(Hear, hear.)—The arrear has gone on, year by year, increasing. There was an arrear when the first Vice-Chancellor was appointed. Soon there was a greater arrear—and I predict that it will increase.— My Hon. and Learned Friend (the Master of the Rolls) has al luded to a pamphlet, if indeed I may so call it--(a laugh)— which has recently been published on this subject by the Senior Master of the High Court of Chancery, who comes forward with all the titles that deck him, and with all the authority that backs him, not to send forth a pamphlet, but to promulgate a manifesto against all change in the practice of his jurisdiction. These sentiments, as proceeding from the " Senior Master," might well have been understood to have been those of all the Mas ters, if the Master of the Rolls, the first of those Masters, had not this evening so handsomely disowned them. By the way I may remark, that in doing so, he applied a salve to the wound be inflicted, by saying that there was a great deal of wit and elo quence in this pamphlet. It may be se ; but if there be any wit in it, it has certainly escaped me, though I freely admit, that for aught I know, there is what may pass for such in the Master's office.—(Laughter.)—Of this document, coming from so high a quarter, I have, as the Speaker sometimes does with documents from other high quarters, obtained a copy to avoid mistakes—. o a t d y afew passag es f rom it. The of f the Gre a t S ea l ma i n t a ined t(iitlsueghofteirt)—ais, •nd Irhweillsonvoevreireg against the 188 Propositions of the Chancery Commission." — The effect of the 174th proposition, the Senior Master contends, would he not only to dispossess the Lord High Chancellor of his authority, but, coupled with the eight following propositions, to despoil the Great Seal of its Sovereignty—(a laugh)—and what, he adds, would be worse, to despoil the suitors of its protection — (Continued laughter.)—And then comes the passage in which I suppose my Hon. and Learned Friend found the author's wit. " PROSPERO—You'd be a King of the Island, sirrah ? STEPHANO—I should have been a sore one then." But the writer adds, that he alludes to no particular Vice-Chan- cellor ; nor, I might say, do T to any particular Chancellor.— (Cheers.) —What he says, however, is quite unfair. Every man of common candour, acquainted with the facts, must know that this is a groundless charge against the Vice-Chancellor. If the right of appeal was direct from him to the House of Lords, we should ace an altered state of things. Though, unquestionably, the present condition of the appellate jurisdiction is inexpressibly absurd. The merits of the case can signify nothing to the three Lords who hear one-half of it, nor to the other three tords who hear the other half of it, nor to the three who sit while judgment is given by a man who is not a Lord; and thus is ridicule brought on the highest assembly in the land, in order to save Lord Eldon, where he is as deficient as in the Court of Chancery. In another part of his pamphlet, the writer observes insidiously, " The number of Appeals from the Lord Chancellor to the House of Lords is very, very few, while those from the Vice- Chancellor to the Lord Chancellor is very, very many." This, I take it, is the eloquence which my Honourable and Learned Friend found, as the other was the wit.—(Laughter.)—" The inference," the Senior Master goes oil, " is so obvious, that I cannot bear the pain of having it drawn more strongly." But, Senior Master, you shall bear the pain of having it drawn more strongly. The meaning of the passage is this :—" I will praise the Lord Chancellor, who made me a Master in Chancery, and I will do so at the expence of the Vice-Chancellor, who does not enjoy the same influence at Court ;" and that he has it not I lament, from the bottom of my heart, for he deserves every ho nour for the struggle he has so gallantly maintained, if he had no title to honour better founded before.—(Cheers.)—" Him," how ever, in effect, says this Senior Master, " I will not praise. He has no favours to dispense. He has neither power nor perquisites to give to those of our cloth who will laud him. But the Chan cellor I will praise. I will say the appeals are many from the Vice-Chancellor to the Chancellor, because of the unfitness of the Vice-Chancellor ; and that they are few from the Chancellor to the House of Lords, because of the eminent fitness of the Chan cellor."—(Cheers.)—What, did it never strike this grave autho rity, that the reason why the appeals were few to the House of Lords was, that an appeal from the Lord Chancellor in the Court of Chancery, to the Lord Chancellor in the House of Lords, was an appeal from himself to himself? (Hear !) The man is a fool who hopes for any result from this protracted litigation, except the loss of additional time and money. Did it never strike this grave authority, that some of the judicial habits of the Chancellor tend directly to the multiplication of business? A very good ex planation of the many appeals from the Vice-Chancellor may be given without imputing them to any defects or infit mities on his part. What, I ask, should be thought of a Judge, who never hears the decree of another Judge read before him without carping at it? Ido not believe the Lord Chancellor does so from invidi- ous motives. The practice results from his subtlety, his ingenuity, his extreme refinement of mind, which lead him always to look out for what has rot struck other men before. I appeal to every lawyer versed in Equity, whether, since the commencement of Lord Eldon's Chancellorship, so many doubts have not been ex pressed on every appeal heard before him, that when he does not reverse the decrees, he shakes them so that other suitors are ad vised, as the phrase is, to take " the chance of the tables," in ex pectation that some of the difficulties may be made available to themselves. (Cheers.) That is one reason why appeals are so frequent from the Vice-Chancellor to the Chancellor. It forms also, very often, a ground for re-hearing his own judgments? (Cheers.) No man has had so mush done for him as the Lord Chancellor. In the House of Lords a Deputy Speaker (Lord Gifford) was made to assist him, who certainly dispatched the Scotch Appeals with great success, and gave general satisfac tion to the practitioners and suitors. That Noble and Learned Lord (Gifford) sat from day to day, six hours each day, and during every one of those hours his mind was on the stretch, at tending carefully to what passed before him, and making himself master of the case. He was then prepared to give judgment without any interval, without taking home the papers—(A laugh) or keeping the parties in anxiety, to the great increase of their costs, till he had forgotten the arguments altogether, or perchance lost the papers --(Renewed laughter.) That was the way in which Lord Gifford administered justice in the House of Lords. I will not follow the example of the " Senior Master of the High Court of Chancery." I will not state the contrast unfairly and in sidiously. But I will state clearly and expressly, that the con duct of Lord Gifford, in the House of Lords, was a great and striking contrast to that which Lord Eldon follows both in the House of Lords and the Court of Chancery. The same may also be said most justly of the Vice-Chancellor. Nothing keeps him from his court except severe illness, when he is actually con fined to a sick bed. Six days in the week, (luring six hours each day, he sits patiently attentive to his duties. He suffers nothing. positively nothing, to interfere with them. He does not waste an hour at the beginning, and an hour and a half at the end of the day—his mind is on the stretch the whole time. He decides more causes, and gets through a greater mass of busi ness, than any .of the Equity Judges. In the diligent and able performance of his duty, he resembles those great Judges of past times, who were the ornament of their own day, and the envy as well as the regret and admiration of ours.—(Loud cheers. )—But the Chancellor still needs help—(a laugh).—My Hon. and Learned Friend (the Master of the Rolls) has invited us on this side of the House, to give him suggestions for the improvement of the Court of Chancery, from our own experience of that Court and others. I have a suggestion to offer with regard to making a Deputy Speaker, who may not be a Member of the House of Lords. This is one of the most unwise steps that can be taken. What has been the course of this practice? The Lord Chief Baron was first taken from the Exchequer. In ISI9 he fell ill, and the Lord Chief Justice of the King's Bench was planted as his successor, under a Royal Commission. Still he was not a Member of the House. He could not open his lips on the cases argued before him. All he could do was to put the question.— Surely, then, I am justified, without transgressing the bounds of pro priety, in stigmatising this practice as anomalous and absurd (cheers). While on this part of the question, I would relate a fact that oc curred while Lord Chief Justice 'Abbott was sitting in that capa city in the House of Lords. A case was one day heard before the Chief Justice, and appointed for further hearing on a day on which Lord Eldon, who had in the mean time recovered, came down to the House. The case was postponed till another day, when the Chief Justice heard the residue of it. The House then adjourned during pleasure, and other cases were heard by Lord Eldon.— The Chief Justice went away to his own Court, and on another day came again to the House of Lords, where he was present while judgment was given in this case, which he alone had heard. Do I say that judgment was given by the Lord Chancellor without knowing any thing of the case? No. I am perfectly well aware what was done. The Lord Chief Justice had communicated to some one, what should be done. But is it not a mockery on the sacred forms and attributes of justice, that in this manner we should make a puppet of the highest Judge in the kingdom, the next in rank to the Chancellor himself, the Lord Chief Justice of all England.—(Cheers.)—But now the Lords are bal loted for to insure their attendance. Two of them come daily. Two on one day hear one part of the case, on the next two others hear the remainder ; and the case thus proceeds day by day, be fore a different set of Lords every day, until the Deputy Speaker, who, not being a Member of the House, cannot, in fact, speak at all—(A laugh)—whispers the judgment to be passed by those who perhaps have not heard one word of the argument. Ido trust the administration of justice will be spared this foul blot.—(Cheers.) is -I am one of those who think, that Lord Eldon is of the number of those Sovereigns who " bear no rival near the throne."— (Hear, hear, hear.)--He has lived to reap the fruits of that prin ciple, on which he has so long acted, of not promoting men of his own profession, lest they_ should become his rivals. He is reaping the fruits of this principle in these his latter days. He finds now, that through fear of raising competitors, he is left with out able assistants. I will ask why the Lord Chief Justice has not been elevated to the Peerage? If I am told it has been offered to him, and he has refused it, my question is answered. I well remember when my friend, the late Member for Bramber (Mr. Wilberforce), remarking to 'me, when Lord Gifford was made a Peer, that . that was .an ar rangement which would suit the convenience of Lord Eldon, as from the new Peer he could fear no rivalry. My respected friend observed, that he did not think it !Vat .to see the Lord Chief Justice of all England waiting with a coronet in view, , while an inferior Judge had one given to him b aton d ce a . k again, why has the Lord Chief Justice not. see create Chief Justice) had been elevated to the state to which his talents p H e e r e has n every e, can right cnn f r which i m_ a t i r o n n e , d I p e a e r r n a tahe deer?Lordand the regard of the profession for him entitled him, Lord Eldon s w n o r u s cl o 7 . c, sy haveassistance b e w e n n u s l u d r ro have und beene d e e e r t e n d i e n to , a a i n d d h o i t m h e in m ea- exe cuting his judicial functions. I have now concluded the observa tions I intended to make on these propositions. I have dischar ged my duty, and a painful one it has been.—(Hear !)—I need not add, for I have often said it before—but I will repeat it, in case any Member should be present who has not heard. me, and for the vindication of the opinion to. which I have given expres sion—that it has been painful to me on this account, that what ever public differences of opinion I may have had, or have now, with that Noble and Learned Lord (the Lord Chancellor), I agree with all those who have mentioned his name in this House or elsewhere, that, holding a high situation, as he does, not only by his claims as a lawyer and man of talent and practical wisdom, I admit freely , and cordially, that of all the Judges before whom I have practised (and I have practised much), he is, out of all comparison, and beyond all doubt, by much the most agreeable to the practitioner, by the amenity of his manners and the in tuitive quickness of his mind ; though, if I must add the infirmity under which he labours, he is certainly the slowest in deci sion. I have delivered my sentiments as a public adversary; hut in private life I have, and can have, no hatred against him. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman sat down amidst loud cheering. The ATTORNEY - G ENERAL said, his Hon. and Learned Friend (M r. Brou g ham) had admitted that the Lord Chancellor had not only done all he could in the discharge of his multifarious duties, but that he had done more than it could be expected human faculties would accomplish. But without tra velling into all the catraneous arguments of his Hon. and Learned Friend opposite, he begged to recall to the attention of the House, that the question before them was, whether the Resolutions recom mended by the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the prac tice of the Court of Chancery should be embodied into that law to which his Learned Friend had that night called their atten. tion. If the Commissioners had been seduced by the suavity of Lord Eldon, as his Honourable and Learned Friend had stated, so as to make the Commissioners think as he thought, and their Re solutions to be nothing more than the Resolutions of Lord Eldon himself, they weft only in the same situation as his Honourable and (.earned Friend, who had been so seduced by the amenity of the Noble and Learned Lord, that he could not make up his mind as to his character, and balanced his censure by his praise. He had listened stilfh great pleasure, as he always did to the speeches of his Hon. and Learned Friend, to his ingenious, elo quent, and facetious speech ; but he must say he had departed from the only question before the House. He for one regretted the absence of the Member for Ilchester ; but he thought he had left nobody behind to supply his n lace in showing in what respect the Report which his Hon. Frien d j regulations were wcia,Liehledi,:smwoocelkderoyowtieaes. deficient. One One objection had been started, Bill to be introduced by his Right Hon. Friers.; to be enacted for the practice of the Cour t of Cblits.' er Y ; but the Judge presiding over that Court was to h ave the power ..!' f alt,er ing these regulations. If these regulatio ns were settled ant: '- termined by the Legislature, he should oppose, as strongly as an? Member, any attempt, on the part of any Judge, to alter them. But the House would remember that this was an experiment ? and therefore it was that the Head of the Court was allowed to snake any modifications in them he might find necessary. In this he only exercised a power which the Chief of every Court was allowed to exercise. His Hon. and Learned Friend had also gone out of his way to attack the mode of conducting the Appel late Jurisdiction of the House of Lords, and the influence of the Lord Chancellor had been supposed to exercise over the Creation of Peeps ; but he wished to bring back the Roust to the single question before them, which was, whether the Bill, founded oil the Resolutions of the Commissioners appointed to Intrite into the Practices of the Court of Chancery, should be introdued of. not, and with that the arguments used by his Hon. and Leariitt Friend had nothing to do. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman sat d wn by apologising for troubling the House at that late boar on such a dry subject. Mr. Secretary PEEL hoped, though the hour was late, and the House in a very exhausted state, that they would not think he was preferring, after the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite, an unreasonable claim to their attention and indulgenee, by detaining them by a few brief observations. There was no man, he was ready to admit, more incapable tilts he wed of entering into any discussion of the merits of the 158 resArtiense though, if he had leisure, he should have paid them great ati**" tion. But he would fairly own that his other avocations had oe -e. copied him so much, that he had not had sufficient time to give• them that consideration which they deserved. Before be re ferred to the speech of the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, there was one point on which he wished to make one or two remarks. There was one subject which, whether a man were a Chancery Lawyer or not, and whether he had studied the Report or not, he would be able to form an opinion ; he alluded to the state of our law relative to the transfer of real property, and the difficulty there was in making out a good title. There was 110 manwho had purchased or sold real property, who had not been made aware of the numberless modes which might be, and some.. times were had recourse to, to defeat a just contract; and thus, wise. ther or not, some means might not be adopted to put an end to such proceedings, to facilitate establishing titles to landed property, and to give its owner a more ample security, became an object well worthy of attention. There was one passage of the Report, for be had read that, though he had not had time to examine the whole of the Resolutions, in which he heartily concurred. The Commis sioners state, " that no person can have had much experience in Courts of Equity, without feeling that many suits owe their mi• gin to, and many are greatly protracted by, questions arising front the niceties and subtleties of the law and practice of conveyancing. Any alteration in this system must be made with the greatest caution ; but as connected with the object of saving time and ex pence to suitors in the Court of Chancery, we venture to submit to your Majesty's consideration, whether it might not be proper to commit to competent persons the task of examining this part of our law, with a view of determining if any improvement may be safely made in it, which might lessen the expence and narrow the field of litigation respecting the transfer of real property."-- In this view he fully concurred, but he felt there were great diffi culties connected with the subject, and that it was one which ought to be approached with the greatest caution. He did not exactly see why he should be applied to on this subject • perhaps it was on account of his situation, and b eca us e he had made the improvement of another branch of our law the object of his study, but he had received offers from men of talents to contri bute their assistance towards improving this part of our law.; and only a feiv days ago he bad received an offer of services from a gentleman of such great talents—an offer so tempting that he did not wholly despair of being shortly able to devolve on a few per sons—and he thought a few would be better than many—he did not despair, he said, of being shortly able to devolv e on a few dis tinguished persons the task of forming a Commission, meriting the confidence of the House and the Country, which should consider the best means of carrying into execution the recommendation of the Report to lessen the expence and narrow the field of litigation respecting the transfer of real property.—(Hear, hear.)—lf the inquiry were to devolve on such men, he was sure the conduct of the Commission would merit the approbation of the Public.— (Hear, hear.) —After these observations he would proceed to notice the speech of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He could assure him, that in speaking of the Lord Chancellor, he was under no great personal obligation to him ; he had never received from him any personal favour ; and if he then rose to repel what ha thought unjust accusations, he could assure that Hon. and Learned Gentleman and the House, that he did it only from that respect which he bore him as a colleague, and from that personal friend ship which the House would not undervalue.—(Hear, He hoped the House would bear in mind that the very.severe.st tack which had been made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman on the Lord Chancellor had been made in his absence. Mr. BROUGHAM, interrupting the Right H on. Secretary, appeared to make light of this remark, an d s aid he spoke of him as he had a right to do as a Minister of the Crown. Mr. Secretary PEEL said, in continuation, he did not deny the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's right to make the attack, he only wished to remind the House that it had r e made on the Lord Chancellor in his absence, entertained for him feelings of respect, to vindicatelie been expected attack, which he had a right to say could n t Zile "wished the lion. on such a motion._ ( Hear , hear !) had no right to come, and which ' made it thiendallahltlvarfeoseomwheno r of Sehestors, and rec_ollect , that in his ho had no means of had called on the House not to attack men w present to vindicate the accusations, and who were not re plying er to eerere. Though he was sensible that there was a great n tHnoOots House ) Member for efobradDbueerheavmersyvhreoehdadee cheered, 'cha ts o n re ul e d te theirdifference ch between these Solicitors and a Minister of the Crown, as la s id uch be a fo s r t e ate t : would first that he he He stood up to defend him.. consistent with fairness to attempt to throw discredit was not yet the absence of the Lord Chancellor was his reason why on the Minister of the Crown for his private conduct. Ha would admit the right to call into question his mode of discharging his public duty ; but he appealed to the good taste of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, and to the House, if it were proper to go into an examination of his private character. The Hon. Member for Colchester had stated that the Lord Chancellor's emoluments he contradicted ? The amount of time income of the Lord Chan cellor atnounhteadd,too.2oa,OfoOrOml.elp. eorcyceasairo;n,anbdeewn and, out of that income, he bad to pay Subordinate Offi sala ries, amounting to 2,5001. per year. He did not then cera con i the exact amount of the Chancellor's income, as he h a d re k . --- km --- at the subject lately, but he believed it was less than not ----- year, and about 13,5001. When it wars considered 14,000/. per that this was the chief prize in the lottery of a very uncertain no y ear to man would consider 18,500/. per professio n , h e th oug ht insinuated that the Lord o large a salary. • The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had illsu Chan cellor had used time influenc e conferred prevent some of the Judges gain; on him by hi s s itu a tion, to ' lieved that the Hon. and Learn e d dromoted to the Peerage. He be would not enter into the eireu G entleman was musinffirmed- Me Instances which induced hii Majesty to confer a Peerage, but he would the Court of King'sßench say, as to the present Chief Justiceof ,who had at all times discharged his duty in a manner that would do honour to the Judges of the highest-characters who had ever filled his high office, he would say, that the Lor d Chancellor bad never thrown th h t obstacle in the way of a his promotion t o t h e P ee es r tes in him eith er a competitor g o e r , a a n r d iv e a o l uld have no But tthe : Lord Chan or had, according to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, used his , • , • .