The Sun. — London, England, 1856-07-15 00:00:00

hwe ceased, even if it had ever arisen. (Hear, hear.) Be it observed that the excuse of its being necessary in order to support the Government, because the Government causes discontent and disaffection, gains strength from every unjust exercise of unjust and unlawful powers. (Hear.) Take the case of Bologna. The city of Bologna has been in a state of siege for the last eight years. If the Penal Government wore to demand that the heads of 100 families in that city should be arrested and sent to a dun geon, there would arise great discontent and disaffection, and then, because there was discontent and disaffection, the foreign Government and the Papal Government would say that it was impossible to relieve this city from the pre sence of foreign troops, and that the occupation must be continued. It is an evil, therefore, which propagates itself. (Hear, hear.) But are there no reasons even stronger than these general considerations of this state of things being abnormal, of there being no precedent for such an occupation, and of the discontent which it creates being so great as to induce her Majesty's Govern ment, at the Conference of Paris, to pronounce themselves in so decided a manner, which would still lead them to carry into effect the views which they there expressed? This house will well remember that at the time when we were carrying on the struggle in the Crimea—when the troops of Great Britain and France were besieging Sebasto pol and were suffering every sort of privation, the Powers of Europe generally stood aloof from that struggle, whic h we proclaimed to be a struggle for European liberties. At that time there was one State—a small State, but with an heroic people and a heroic Sovereign, which came forward to join us—(hear)—to add its troops to ours and to send the Crimea apart of its small army in order to share in the dangers and glories of our army, to stand side by side on the banks of the Tchernaya and before the walls of Sebas topol with those gallant men whose reception in this me tropolis a few days ago filled every breast with emotions the command gratitude and pride. (Hear.) That n oble arm y , b y command of the Sovereign, with the full assent of the Chambers, became most willing associates of our hardships, and partook of our glory and our honour. (Hear.) It would be too much to say, too much to suppose, that the Govern. ment of Sardinia would have added their forces to ours in that struggle from no other motive but regard to the gene ral interests of Europe. Sardinia had suffered much in its contest with Austria, its finances had been greatly bur dened, and its taxes had been enormously increased. A Sardinian Minister standing before the Parliament to ask them to enter into this war with Russia—a distant Power, - whose advances against Turkey, however menacing to Eu rope in general, did not bear on the face of them any great danger to Sardinia—would have had great difficulty in ob taining an assent to his proposal had the Chambers thought of nothing but the dangers of Europe. (Hear.) There ap pealed, however, to be a general impression on the part of the Sardinian Government, and from all that I can hear a very justifiable impression, that if they joined us in that war their position of continued sacrifice and of consider able danger in Italy would be very much ameliorated by the acquisition of the friendship of two great Powers like France and England. I shall not be told, I hope, at least by her Majesty's Government, that there are no words in the treaty binding us to take into consideration the state of Italy. The Piedmontese believe, and I hope they believe rightly, that, although we may not be bound by the letter of the treaty, yet that its whole spirit would give them as much right to expect this consideration at our hands and at the hands 01 France as if the determination to consider the atateof Italy had been specifically inserted in the treaty. It is therefore a question of honour with this country and with France not to abandon the affairs of Italy. I believe such an abandonment would be fatal, if not in name, yet in reality, to the independence of Piedmont. The course of affairs would bo probably this. The Austrian Govern ment, if they were aware that this country and France did not mean to interfere—that we were content with the bar ren aid of protocols —would increase their troops from one end of the frontier of Piedmont to the other. Piedmont would be obliged—she is even now obliged—to keep up an army larger than her size and resources would naturally justify. Discontents would arise thereupon. There would be in the Piedmontese Parliament—perhaps in the very next session—complaints of the Government which had im posed such burdens upon the country, and had sent its army to such a distance without bringing back anything but hostility on the part of Austria and indifference and disregard on the part of the Western Powers. It would be said—and very likely successfully said —that, if this was to be the result, it would be better for Sardinia to diminish her armies, to yield to any demands which Austria might make for the suppression of a free press and the limitation of the right of free speaking in the Tribune, and to sink to that wholly dependent condition which existed for some 25 years after the peace of 1815. If that wise statesman and sincere patriot, Count Cavour, were driven from power because England and France had failed in their i nplicit engagements—if he were to be driven from office amid the despair of Italy and the laments of those who looked to us and to France for assistance, should we not feel humiliated that we had asked for the assistance of Sardinia, that we had ever appeared at the conferences of Paris to say a word on behalf of the Italians ? Thera are other considerations besides this which immediately affect our honour. I cannot but think that if France and Eagland, holding the position they do in Europe, should go to a conference of European Powers, and declare that the Roman States are misgoverned, and point out a way in which that misgovernment can be remedied—that if they should denounce the King of the Two Sicilies as a monarch whose rule was so intolerable that even that general international law which forbids others to interfere in the internal affairs of foreign nations must be suspended against him—and yet ie the end should allow the Austrian Government to treat them with haughty disdain, the Pope with positive denial, and the King of Naples with taunts and defiaece, they would be humbled even to the dust. I am now putting the case that it was wise and right to go to the Conference of Paris with these statements. I was myself an earnest advocate for that treaty with the King of Sardinia. Say, if the house chooses to say, that the whole of this policy has been wrong, that her Majesty's Government, and those who support such a policy, have advised a rash and undue interference in the affairs of Italy. That I can well understand. Go back, then, in your policy and assume a totally different attitude. But what I cannot understand is, that you should maintain the same opinions, that you should retain the seine senti ments, and yet that you should not proceed to execute that which you said it was necessary to do for the security of Europe and the good of It sly. Sir, these are questions, and questions of great difficulty, which would arise in the pursuit of the policy upon which we have set out; bus recollect that the Government of this country bat a short time ago—a Government to which I had the honour to be long—the very paeifl 03 reernment of Lord Aberdeen—sent a fleet to Coustsutinuple, and ordered it to take the command of the Black Sea—a, Ft 33 at that time very much unknown to us—and also despatched an expedition to take a fortress upon its shores l Is any such effort necessary to accomplish our present object? Nothing of the sort. I cannot for a moment think that of Great Bri tain and France declared that they could no longer permit Austrian occupation, that occupation would be continued. I do not believe that such a declaration would lead to the slightest danger of war. Italy is accessible at all points. Great Britain and France, with the good-will and hearty concurrence of the whole Italian people, would surely be more than a match for any force that the Emperor of Aus tria could bring against them. Well, then, you may de pend upon it that the Austrian Government would yield at once to such a determination. And, he it observed, that what I am now speaking of is not an interference in the internal concerns of foreign nations. I will say a few words upon that question hereafter. What I am now speaking of is a declaration to Austria that she shall no longer interfere. I do not propose that there should, with regard to the Roman States, be any authoritative inter ference for the secularisation of the Government, or for effecting any of those improvements of which Lord Cla rendon. spoke. I am quite satisfied to leave that question to the Roman people. Let the people of the Roman States be freed from this incubus of foreign occupation, and let them settle with their rulers what shall in future be the form of Government. If they, as Milton says that " na tions grown cor.upt" are apt to do, prefer " bondage with ease to strenuous liberty," let them have their preference. Far be it from us to order them to be free, or to comma :d them to enjoy any of the libertiesof which we are ourselves so proud, But do not let a foreign force interfere. Let not a man who prefers not to be sent to a dungeon because he wears a particular sort of hat, or who has been suspected by some worthless and villanous spy, who gains his liveli hood by the betrayal of the upright and the good— let not a man who has such a preference and feels that his fellow-ceuntrymen likewise entertain it, be met with foreign troops, and forced t o su b m it t o th e mis government which he detests. (Cheers.) With regard to Naples the case is different. Lord Clarendon has stated that there the circumstances are so grave that even internal in terference.may be justified. What may bo the intentions of the GoVernment I know not, nor is it for me to say whether the case is really so strong as to justify this inter ference. If it is, I should much doubt the efficiency of any new laws or the permanency of any constitution granted under such pressure. If it merely means that those vir tuous and good mere who have been pining in dungeons for years, because they had the audacity to devise for their country somethirg better than its former misgovernment, should be released, I can well understand that some inter ference may be justified. What I want to lay stress upon is that we ought not to allow this foreign occupation to be continued. There is, however, one par; of this subject of which we must not lose sight, because it somewhat con cerns the character of this country. In the year 1812 we were the patrons of every people in Europe who rose against what was then the foreign i a mpation of the French army. That army, extending from Florence to Hamburg,' excited a strong feeling of repugnance to foreign dominion and a strong wish for independence. We favoured that wish. In Sicily especially—Sicily, which it was the last object and concern of the public life of Mr. Fox to preserve for the house of Bourbon—in Sicily we ailed to establish a free constitution, and by means of that constitution, as Lerd W. Bantinck stated in this house, everything gained a new aspect ; the country which had been miserably weak became strong, troops and militia were forth coming, and the commander-in-chief in Sicily was enabled to send 6,000 British troops to Spain, to aid in the contest there. The people enjoyed an unwonted degree of prosperity and liberty—liberty unwonted in modern times, but not discordant with their ancient constitution. In 1314 the British troops loft Sicily, and in that or the following year it was stated, on the part of the British Government, that although we did not pretend to say that there should be no changes in the constitution, yet that the Prince Regent would think himself justified in interfering if either those persons who had appealed to British protection during our stay in the island should be molested, or the prosperity and liberty of Sicily should be materially reduced. The Sici lian Minister, in vaguer terms, leaving out especially the word " liberty," accepted that declaration, and engaged the honour of his Government to its performance. In 1815 the general treaty of peace was concluded at Vienna ; but on the 12th or 15th of June in the same year, the King of the Two Sicilies had signed a treaty with the Emperor of Austria, by which he engaged that no Govern ment should be permitted in Naples or Sicily which was not in conf orm i ty with that of the Austr i an e mpire. The Sicilians were of course treated with bad faith. They complained that England had deserted them ; and, with out entering into the policy of those da s it is sufficient to say that Lord C as tl ereagh was disposerL y as ' someone said at the time, to trust rather to sovereigns with large armies at their command th an to popular efforts or to popular sympathies. A few years ago another effort ff t was made b Sicily. At the req ues t o f the King, Lord pinto welt over from Naples with t erms which, aft discus sion, it was thought !night at once assure the privileges loopprpillegesofthe Sicilians and maintain th e un i on b etween N Sicily. But, before he could ma k e his communiacatisonalitdo the leaders of the Sicilian Parliament, the Neapolitan Government, under the directio n o f th e King, carriedhadr through the land intelligence of these terms,and had yoked so much opposition and resistance th a t it was found 'o impossible to obtain assent to them. Another effort was male, having for its object to raise the Duke of Genoa to the throne of Sicily. We, for our parts, should have been happy if that effort had succeeded; but we did not think ourselves entitled to interfere between the King of Naples and his Sicilian subjects and, in a manner, to divide the kingdom of Sicily from that of Naples. It must -be ad mittea that in that instance, and likewise in another pars of Italy, our conduct has to a certain degree excited the suspicion and the anger of the Italians. (Hear.) Lord William Bentincli—than whom no j aster or more sincere man ever stood forth, either in command of an army or as a member of the house—when he went to the coast of Italy, promised independence to the people of Lombardy. That promise likewise was not carried into effect. Some of these are certainly old reminiscences—some of them are connected with the period when, the whole of Europe being convulsed, it was desirable to obtain, if possible, the bless ings of ordef and tranquillity even at a great sacrifice. But at the present time, after standing forward at the confer ences of Paris—after making largo professions am! exciting groat e xpectations—after inducing the Italians to think that a great effort was about to be made in their favour. if we confine ourselves to notes and paper protestations, I am afraid that we shall altogether lose the confidence of the inhabitants of that peninsula ; that 25,000,000 of people, who well deserve good government, will have occa sion to rue the day when Great Britain ever interfered in their affairs. Seeing, then, that, while Austria is taking fresh precautions and sending an increased military force into Italy, the Roman government is wore severe than ever in its system of repression and suspicion, I think it incum bent upon us, in concert with the Emperor of the French, to consider what further we can do to remove these evils (Hear, hear.) Upon that which does not properly belong to me, but devolves more legitimately on the Executive, I wish to offer a few words. I may be asked, " How is it pos sible to carry your views into effect ? (Hear, hear.) True, we have made these declarations, but how can we act in accordance with them?" I say, in the first place, that you aro bound at whatever risk to support the King of Sar dinia. Ido not think you can possibly allow his in dependence to be assailed or his means of free government to be taken away from him without declaring that we are ready at any sacrifice to uphold the cause of one who has so nobly stood by as. (Hear.) In the next place there is some thing more that we can do. Among some of the Sovereigns of Italy there is a growing feeling that dependence on fo reign bayonets is not a proper position for a ruler—that a king who enjoys the love of his people stands higher, is more respected in the world, and more respects himself, than one who sends for a foreign general and has his sub jects brought before a court-martial and shot for disobe dience of the orders of that foreign general. Wherever we find this feeling springing up we ought, I think, to encour age it. (Hear.) There is another point on which I dare say my hon. friend the member for Perth (Mr. Kinnaird) is better informed than I am. It is stated that that spirit of persecution which revolted the people of England in the case of the Madiais, and also prompted the King of Prussia to interfere in regard to the reformed faith with the Grand Duke of Tuscany, has lately received a check ' • and that in the last instance in which an attempt was made to convict a person for endeavouring to proselytise from the Roman Catholic religion to the Protestant the prosecution has failed, and the verdict of the tribunal before which it was brought will not be interfered with by the Government. If this be so, it is a very welcome symptom not only of appro bation of liberty of conscience, but of a rising spirit of in dependence. We are further told that the haughty and in solent manner in which the Austrian troops have treated the independent Sovereign of Parma, has excited resistance and disgust in that State. I trust that this may be the cast, and wherever it is so T think the influence of the Bri tish Government should be exercised to confirm those growing feelings, and to nourish this rising spirit of inde pendence. (Hear.) I remember, Sir, very long ago, having the honour of an interview in the Isle of Elba with the First Napoleon. The Emperor talked much of the States of Italy, and agreed in the observation which I had made that there was no union among them, and no likeli hood of any effectual resistance by them to their oppres sors ; but when I asked him why Austria was so unpopu lar in Italy he replied, that it was because she governed, not with the sword (that was probably not a reflection which that great man would make), but that she had no other means of governing except by " stick." (Laugh ter.) I believe, sir, that that is the secret of the whole disfavour with which Austria is viewed in Italy. Taking this to be the fact, I say that you have a means ready to your hands for rousing the feelings of the Italian people, and that if we and the Emperor of the French once declare that we shall not allow the States of the Pope to be occu pied by Austria beyond a certain fixed date, the attain ment of their evacuation will be a matter of comparative ease. One thing, indeed, I have heard, and it is a mere whisper, a surmise—namely, that the Government of the Emperor of the French, which agreed with us so much at Paris that its Minister for Foreign Affairs took the initia tive, is not prepared at present to protest any further against the foreign occupation of Italy. I, for one, sir, cannot believe—l think it is impossible to believe—that a Sovereign who was so faithful an ally to this country who during the late war proved himself so ready to aid us, and to act in every way as became a Monarch true to his engagements, would ever lead the King of Sardinia to rely on his support, and then allow that hope to be disap pointed. (Hear.) The matter to which I allude may. be one of some time—it may require the adaptation of vari ous means to the end in view. It is for her Majesty's Government to carry on communications on this subject. They have the time before them in which to do so ; but this I will 'say, I cannot but think that, if having done, and having proclaimed so much we are contented with the refusal of all that wo propo - Se—if we sit down quietly without obtaining any improvement in the condition of Italy, it will be to us a ground of everlasting reproach. I trust, therefore, that in the course of the autumn, or at least before the next meeting of Parliament, the object which Lord Clarendon had in view at Paris will be effected. I know that no greater object can be aimed at by a states man. When Lerd Byron was in Italy in 1821, and had become enthusiastic in her cause, ho sail that the cause of Italian freedom was "the very poetry of politics." I believe it is "the poetry of politics • but I believe, at the same time, that it is also a practical question. lam sure it is one on which our character and credit depend. I. express no want of confidence, but I do think that before Parliament separates this house ought to have from the Government some declaration of the one kind or the other —either that they are not prepared to carry any further their interference in the affairs of Italy, or that, using whatever means they deem best adopting whatever mea sures they think most adequate to the occasion—they do mean to attain this end—the independence of the Italian states. Lord PALMERSTON sail—l think the house will not be surprised that my noble friend, who has taken so great an interest in so many important transactions throughout the world, should have deemed it to be his duty before the present session closes, to draw the attention of the house, and through the house the attention of the country, to those interesting matters which he has just brought under our consideration. It is impossible, I think, to overstate the importance of those matters in the present condition of the world. We hive just seen the termina tion of one of the greatest although certainly ono of the shortest wars in which this country was ever engaged —a war which involved interests of the deepest and greatest magnitude, and which might, if it had continued, multr certain circumstances, have extended itself over the greatest part of the surface of Europe. That war h--s happily been terminated, and those questions which gave rise to it, and which threatened in their conse quences the greatest calamities to Europe, have been settled in a manner which I trust will for a long period avert the recurrence of similar dangers. (Hear.) When the congress assembled which was to discuss and deter mine the conditions of peace, it was natural that the re presentatives of the great powers of Europe should not separate without directing their attention to other matters of European interest beyond those which were the imme diate object of their consideration My noble friend, I think, assigned ample reasons why that course should have been pursued. It would have been a reproach to the re presentatives of the great powers of Europe if, when they were brought together to accomplish the groat purpose of European pacification, they hail shut their eyes to circum stances which might in the future bring about complica tions as dangerous to the peace of Europe as those which it was their gratifying duty to put an end to. The affairs of Italy, therefore, naturally attracted their attention. My noble friend well remarked that the occupation of inie• pendent states by foreign nations is a departure from the ordinary and proper condition of things, which can only be justified by an immediate and pressing necm rity, and which ought not to be continued beyond the duration of the emergency which gave it bi th. (Hear.) The occuplatir therefore, of the Roman states by foreign troops naturally claimed the attention of the plenipotentiaries at the con • gross, and there was no member of that congress who was more fit to direct the attention of his colleagues, and through them the attention of the governments of Europa, to that subject, than the representative of the Emperor of the French, who had partly joined in that occupation; and most honourable I think it was to the Emperor of the French that he should have taken that opportunity of ex pre-sing his desire that the occupation should cease, pro vided the assent of Austria could be also obtained to the ueseation of that state of things. These discussions did not lead to any satisfactory result, as my noble friend stated. The representative of Austria held out no expectation that his Government w•arid takoany steps in that direction, and he professed himself to be without instructions from his Gov rnuent„ lly noble friend wishes to know in regard to that matter what are the intentions of her Majesty's Govern ment— whether we mean to let the matter drop altogether, or if we think it ourduty to urge this matter, and what steps it is our iniention to take. I think my noble friend and the house must feel that when her Majesty's Government, in conjunction with the Government of France, made them selves parties to public and official representations; as ith the view of inducing a cessation of that abnormal occupation, that was not a momentary impulse —(hear, hear)—and that no temporary disappointment of their expectations would induce the Governments of the two countries to desist from their undo ivours to accomplish a result which they thought right in pri' ciple, sound in policy, and conducive to the best interests of Europe. (Hear, hear.) What steps the Government may think it right to adopt, I think my noble friend, above all men, will feel that it would be unbecoming on the part of her Majesty's Government to state ; but I have no hesitation in saying that we think theobject is one t of great aud general importance, and that we do not ab ra don the hope that it may be ultimately accomplished. (Hear.) It is said, on the one hand, that if that occupa- tion were to cease revolts and revolutions and scenes of die aster would occur in the Ttelian States. It would be unbe coming in a spectator at this distance to pronounce any opinion on the value of such an objection, but reasoning on general principles one cannot bring oneself to think that those anticipations are notexaggorated —that a Government, like that of the Pope, at the head of which is a man of whose benevolent intentions and enlightened ideas the past has given us sufficient proof, could not so regulate the ad ministration of affairs as to remove those causes of violent dissent which alone produce convulsion in states. I will not go back to the advice given to the Pope in 1831 by the representatives of the five great powers, but will observe that no later than 1819, when the Pope returned to his dominions, he published an edict called a proprio mote by which he announced his intention of establishing insti tutions, uot, indeed, on the scale of representative govern ment, but still based on popular election, and which, if carried into fall effect, would, I think and feel confident, have afforded that contentment to his subjects which would have rendered the interference of foreign troops in his dominions wholly unnecessary. That proprio mote professed to establish municipal councils founded on elec tion, with a franchise of a most extended description. Those municipal councils were to elect members to form provincial councils, and those provincial councils, again, were to elect members to form a council of state in Rome —a council certainly not administrative—and then there was to have been a council of finance, to give advice on the financial arrangements of the State. I cannot but think if the Pope had put in force even that limited arrange ment of the proprio mote, that such security would have been afforded for the tranquillity of his dominions as to render their occupation by foreign troops unnecessary. As to that point, I can only repeat what I have already stated, th a t her Majesty's Government feel that the cessa tion of that foreign occupation is an object of European interest, and which it would be becoming the Government of this country and the Government of France, if possible, to acc nnplish. Now, wi k regard to the affairs of Naples, I am sorry to say that the friendly representations of the THE SUN, LONDON TUESDAY EVEttliNti, JULY 16, 1856. Governments of England and France to the King of Naples, minister of expel i-ince and high character could never have with respect to the condition of that country, have not introduced at a conference fer the settlement of terms of 1 Ebert° been attended with any successful result. My noble peace with Rus , ie questions of this vast importance, with- friend has expressed an opinion that although it is a de- out having previeusly communicated with his colleagues, ' 1 parture from general principles for one foreign government and felt the pulse of the representatives of the different to interfere, even by advice, with regard to the internal Courts. That was the conclusion which everybody must affairs of another state, there are in the condition of the have drawn from the protocols of the conferences ; but a kingdom of Naples sufficient grounds for a departure short time after war is papers were laid on our table which from that general principle. The ground on which that completely exhibited the cause of this conduct on the part exception rests must be evident to every one who casts a of the French Minister, and the means by which the atten glance at the map of Europe and takes a retrospect of its tion of the Congress was directed to these extraneous and. history. If the severity and the injustice of the King of extraordinary subjects. It then appeared that on the 27tia Naples should load to the outbreaks and resistance which , March, ten days before the exposition of Count Walewski, occur in the ordinary course of things under similar cir- the Plenipotentiaries of Sardinia placed in the hands of cnmstances, and if the King of Naples were to find himself . Lord Clarendon a memorandum which, if it be anything, unable by means of his own troops to restore his authority, is an act of impeachment of Austria and Austrian rule in it is obvious he would apply to Austria for assistance. Italy, which proposes secularisation, the Code Napoleon, (Hear.) But would the rest of Europe stand passive spec. and other remedies, and which in spirit was the basis of titters of that additional interference on the part of Aus. the observations that Lord Clarendon made on the ilth of tria ? (Hear.) And if they did not, would not that en- April. Therefore it is quite clear that there was an under danger the peace of Europe, and would not the complicit- standing among the Plenipotentiaries in Paris that at their tions and the difficulties which such a state of things would meeting on the Bth of April all these extraneous questions, create seriously affect the interests of other States in Eu.. including that of Italy, were to be brought forward, that rope ; and is it not a justification for the friendly enders- the movement came from Piedmont, and that in the me yours on the part of the English and French Governments morandum of the 27th of March may be found the mo te induce the King of Naples to prevent by his own means tive spring of all that has occurred. (Hear, hear.) Now, the occurrence of outbreaks which would so much endan- to proceed a step further, what are the engagements, as ger the general tranquillity of the civilised world? (Hear.) the noble lord the member for the city interprets them, I say that no succre s has hitherto attended our friendly re- what are the representations which the latest inter presentations. But the Government of Naples may have pretatiun of the words we might call them —of Lord looked with jealousy and suspicion on any advice coming Clarendon ? Our Foreign , Secretary agrees that the state from the Governments of England and France ; but we do of Greece is " abnormal ; ' he agrees that the condition of not despair that advice of the same kind coming from a the Roman States is also " abuormal ;" but, as regards Government in which the King of Naples may place more the Neapolitan Government, confidence may produce the desired effect. (Hear.) It is "Heis of opinion that it must doubtless be admitted in one of the misfortunes arising out of the language which principle that no Government has the right to interfere in the has been too frequently held in vituperation of the course internal affairs of other States, but he considers there are pursued by France and England, and more especially to cases in which the exception to this rule becomes equally a the habit of attributing to the English Government the de- right and a duty. The Neapolitan Government seems to him sign of promoting revolution and fomenting disorders—it to have conferred this right and to have imposed this duty is, I say, one of the misfortunes arising out of these calum- upon Europe." bias that they tend to prevent the reception by other Go- Now, I ask the house whether that is language that could vernments of the good, and sound, and useful advice of fared to them by the Government of this country. (Hear.) have been used, or ought to have been used, without hav - But Ido not despair that even the evils which still exist in ing seine foregone conclusion as to the policy of which it the kingdom of the Two Sicilies may, by the interference of was to be the indication ? Though I may not agree with those in whom the King of Naples and his councillors the noble lord the member for the City that the language place more confidence than in the Governments of England of a protoc dof this character is an engagement which may and France, produce better proceeds to them than have re - bind us with the formality of a treaty, still it is impossible stilted from our interference. Therefore, with regard to to read it without feeling that we have a right to expect from the noble lord at the head of the Government , with - Naples, as with regard to Rome, we do not despair— (laughter)—we see a state of things threatening, as we out revealing the secrets of Cabinets or the mysteries of think, the interests of Europe; but Ido not at all mean States, some explanation of the declarations of tho Eng to say that the British Government give up all hope lish Plenipotentiary more satisfactory than those phrases of producing an improvement in that state of things. with which the noble lord has favoured ns to-night, and to With regard, however, to that, as with regard to other which I confess lamat a loss to annex any other mean 'Kg matters, my treble friend must excuse me from following than that which I had the misfortune, years ago, to at' ash him into the details into which he entered. On one point to the statements of the noble lord with respect to the affairs I have no difficulty in giving a full assent to the opinion of Italy. The noble lord has explained to the house what expressed by my noble fiiend.. My noble friend has stated is the nature of the exceptional character of the Neapolitan that the King of Sardinia, having bravely and nobly asso- Government, and why there should be a departure, in the ciated himself with England and France in the war which case of Naples, from that golden-rule of non-interference to has j eat been closed, has given himself a right—an honour- which I trust the house will adhere, or which it will never able right —to the support and protection of England and quit without the most urgent necessity. [" Hear, hear," from Mr. Bowyer.] The noble lord said the position of France-- (cheere)—and if any danger should threaten him, Naples was remarkable, because, if the Government were not brought about by any provocation on his part—and that provocation lam sure he is too well advised to give— to conduct itself so as to give rise to any revolutionary it would be a danger, I agree with my noble friend in movement in the country, the armed forces of a great 'nil:- thinking, which England and France are bound by every tary Pow( r- 'Austria —were t t ham', i mai y u may depend upon it," added the noble lord, " Austria would occupy do of honour and every sentiment that can actuate the Goveinwents of two great nations, to resist to the utmost Naples, thus producing a state of things that would not only and to repel. lam satisfied, however, that the knowledge endanger the peace of Europe, but might bring about cala mities which it is difficult to measure or foresee." But when that such a tie exists between him and England and France will be sufficient to prevent him from being threatened , or the noble lord defends himself from the charge of doing no if he should be threatened and danger should really exist, thing to mitigate the evils which, according to him, render to repel that danger. No doubt my noble friend is right the state of Naples so exceptional, and which require our in thinking it would be desirable to encourage those sove- interference, he intimates that, though England and France reigns of Italy, whose territories are free like the Grand may not succeed—have not succeeded—in obtaining that Duke of Tuscany, or which are occupied like those of the mitigation of Neapolitan rule which he thinks so neces- Duchess of Parma, but who wish either to maintain or re- sary, yet some other influence, not less powerful, and gain their independence ; and it will be the duty of the which will be received in a far more friendly spirit by the governments of France and England, as far as they can, to Neapolitan Government, may be brought into requisition encourage those sovereigns in maintaining or regaining with more success. The hous e clearly understood the that territorial independence. It is true that Italy is die- noble lord to mean the mediation of Austria. It was the taut from us, but it is also true that no great conflict of action of Austria upon Naples that, according to the noble opposing armies, or opposing countries, can take place in lord, was to induce the Neapolitan Government to cease Italy without spreading far beyond the limits of that from its ill-doing and to adopt that remedial course which peninsula the flames of war, sad therefore I agree with seemed so expedient. But how extremely inconsistent is my noble friend in thinking that every wise and enlight- it to hold Austria up to us as the Power which, by its ened Government of this country most coneider that the beneficent interference with Naples, is to put an end to affairs of Italy require its constapt and urgent attention, the iniquitous rule which you deplore, and at the same and that the interests of England, as connected with the time to say that, in the event of any revolutionary move interests of Europe, will be best consulted by securing ment in Naples, Austria will occupy the kingdom in order to the several states of Italy that perfect independence to uphold the very misrule to mitigate which Austrian within their own limits which the 'east security for that mediation, according to your own account, is now the only good understanding between governments and peoples, and means to which you can resort ! Sir, I cannot have much which, by establishing that good understanding, is best hopo that the influence of Austria will be of the nature i rsoto support o anticipa temitigateth o ma nisij calculated to prevent those interesting and, as they ought ie by which Austrianthhice h noble invasion Au st lord, rin wnn mediation order have to n r© anon a 4 t which the noble lord supposes, if, as we are a ss u re d a t the to be, prosperous regions from becoming a source game t of danger and calamity to the rest of Europe. My noble and fear friend has moved for papers, but said he would not p ress government for their production if it was cousiidered that-it would be remove. But, sir, in what way, viewing this question prejudicial to the public service. lam bound to tell Illy practically, are we to put an-end to the occupation of noble friend that the production of the papers in the pre- Italian states by foreign Powers? The noble lord who sent state of the correspondence would not be conducive to began the debate confined the whole of his observations to and I those interests which he takes so much to heart ' the Austrian occupation of part of the Roman states. The cannot, • noble lord must have felt the extreme awkwardness of his respondence therefore, consent to their production. The car- still is going on, and if it were now made pub position, because when he assured the house of his coufi lie would possibly prevent the accomplishment of those donee that, with the aid of our great ally, Austrian ()em ends which my noble friend as well as her Majesty's Go- pation might be terminated in the Roman states, he must have remembered that another part of the same states was vernment are so desirous of obtaining. I car' only say, therefore, that, concurring with my noble friend in those occupied by the troops of that very august ally by whose general views he so well developed, but reserving to her co-operation we were to put an end to the occupation of Majesty's Government the discretion of pursuing those the Legations by Austria. The noble lord touched very objects in the manner they may think best calculated to lightly —or, rather, did not touch at all—upon the fact accomplish their purpose, without any unnecessary depar that the capital of the Roman states is occupied by French tore from those general principles which ought to regulate• troops, though he must be aware that nothing can be more the intercourse of nations, I trust he will be satisfied with irrational than to address violent representations to Aus triathe statement I have made, and that he will not press for in order to terminate the occup a tion of the Legations to take steps by which the occupation of the the production of those papers. He mayrest assured that bY Austrian troops unless, at the same time, our ally is her Majesty's Government, steadily keeping in view those prepared objects which he has explained, and in which I concur, Roman metr"polis itself by French troops shall cease. I willornit no proper endeavour to restore the governments know that this question has been settled by Count Cavell' of Italy to that freedom of action within their internal in a very ingenious manner; he insi.ts upon it as a first limits which is, I think, best calculated to promote the condition, that Austria should q uit the L e g at i o n s, and that security of Italy, and which alone eau secure that country the French army should quit Renee, but should remain in from becoming a source of danger to the rest of Europe. the Legations until everything ie settled. Now, I ask what (Cheers.) is the use of doing what the noble lord has done to-night— what is the use—to employ his own language—of "rousing Mr. DISRA ELL—The noble lord the member for Lon- the passions" of Italy, unless we have a practical objectbe don has called our attention to a subject of the greatest in- fore us, and unless the opinion of Parliament can support terest and importance; but of Italy it may be said that I' the policy of the Minister ? (Hear, hear.) Never is this h p o o l u i s e e yb j yu a tt s , h t l f i e fi s seA Minister ne i n i as t e r ea a r t p e a r r se i p n i g an jr e i: ir t i to o ou s d i i mt s o c p u ut s hg a en i o t n h s eu countrye p o c a n d e u. x e ot t re pur suedrun un does . does not feel the greatest sympathy with Italy and the l must either be considered in a poetical or practical point , of view. No doubt there is no gentleman in this house who less we can, by the expression o f our opinion, support the fortunes of the Italians. When we remember how much Minister in a policy which will be beneficial to the country we owe to that country, that in ancient times it gave us at dto Europe. So far as the theoretical part of the clues tiongoeosf, psooliftairosuis concerned — f t o h r er l e ta b l e y i n g g oe b v u , t u on fa e r fe s e s l t in h g e our laws, and in modern times our arts, it is totally im 131°1 poetry this house —I want to know, when we turn to the possible that its condition can ever be a subject without prac lively interest to the House of Commons. (Hear t; Alear.) tical q uestion, what the moti on o f th e no bl e l or d w ill do, 'i bt s ih a re y e,e nvw w emh i r l ;y l t d s pit o soe , point support n t iho o touwsplhoyli icwohyi.withheld theohfh throughoutetlhaofrom policy rmo mi . But ot , n , :ri si the Minister? 1 4 : 5 1 , li(ennciyashtitesbe discussion urn?ssg.s)ii Why, y n e lt o h t l ai 11 : reminded us, and I cannot think, notwithstanding the high authority he quoted on the subject of poetry, that the house to-night will feel, on a discussion that may us. (Hear, hear.) I don't expect the noble lord to t e ll us involve immediate consequences of the utmost impor- the means by which the Cabinet is to fulfil his policy ; .and d o s t u h Manes to the people of this country, that we should in • bat we ought to know from the noble lord what are his modes e so whether ce u ,hp, occupation ti ic i oh s n preparedwo we enaont d e (Hear. atel witht a k e ) dulge merely in the poetry of politics on the one hand, general opinions on the subject of the occupation of Italy or of satisfaction on the other with that vague explanation stepsb yfo , 7 gn put troops,aaeruB4 which we have just heard from the lips of the First Minis- Now, sir, th e re in - tar. (Hear.) The noble lord the member for the city of this question, and as they are both practical modes, I will, London compensated us for dwelling on the poetry of the with the permission of the house, and with as much brevity question, and in a very business-like manner, becoming the as I can command, slightly advert to them. We can go to importance of the subject, reminded us of what occurred at war vv:Vi, Austria, no douLt; we can send a fleet to the Bay the recent conference at Paris, and of the important State of Naples or to the Bay of Genoa; with the consent of our papers to which, at that conference, the plenipotentiary of great ally, we can send a French army to some part of Italy; England had affixed his signature. The noble lord intro- and we may embark in a great struggle, the object of which duced the question to us with business details which the will be entirely to change the phase of Italian life, to subvert house clearly understood, and made us feel that- by the con- its Government, to emancipate—according to our views—its duct of the English Minister at Paris, this country had people, and to effect a great revolution, which may, per entered into engagements, according to the version and haps, be accomplished after one of thoselong wars like the interpretation of the noble lord, which had placed this Punic war, or the 30 years' war, or the French Revolution, country in a position of grave responsibility. (Hear, or after one of those struggles which always occur when such hear.) I cannot understand, from the observations of the immense consequences are aimed at and attained. On that Minister who has just sat down that her M a jesty' s Minis- policy I will not presume to give an opinion, because I feel tens have done, or are intending to do, anything whi c h that it is a subject which would require a discussion wor the plenipotentiary of this country assumed on that occa- thy of its importance in this house before we embarked on sion. (Hear, hear.) If all that the Ministry have done or it. I will make only one remark with regard to it, and I intend to do are merely those routine representations to say, if that be the policy of the Government of this coun which the noble lord has just referred, and which he has try, they are bound frankly to announce it. (Hear,- hear.) promised, it does not appear to me that, at a conference They are bound to submit such a policy to the consi lera celled to settle questions of a very different character, it was t ion of Parliament, • and if sanctioned and ratified by Par nee emery, or expedient., or politic, to have introduced the liameot, the people of this country will at least have the question of It tly as it was introduced at Paris—(hear)—to satisfaction of knowing that they have not been drawn have drawn up and signed these protocols, if all that has into a great struggle without being aware of it, and their been done, or is to he done, is, in fact, merely that diplo- minds will be prep tied—as the minds of a nation ought to nettle action which, As I humbly conceive, might have be prepared—for so great a struggle and so groat a stake, taken place without so much ceremony, and without by those discussions in the house of their representatives having, as the noble lord the member for London said, which will direct their attention to the great issue before roused the passions of the population of Italy. (Hear.) I them. By this means they will be enabled to brace their want to know what is the deduction we are to draw from energies to the occasion, and they will have no grounds for the inquiries of one member of this house, who has been accusing the Queen's Ministers or their own representatives First Minister of the country, and from the answer of ano- of haviug embarked in a conflict of such difficulty and du ther member of this house, -who is First Minister now, On ration without fair advice and warning. I think all hon. a question that is indeed truly described as one interesting gentlemen will agree that if that be the policy of the Minis and important from its social character, but one in the try—that if they are prepared to go to war to emancipate treatment of which are involved urgent, perhaps imme. Italy from Austrian rule, they a r t , at least bound frankly hate, consequences to the people of this country—to the to explain their policy, to appeal to Parliament, and to state of their industry and the state of their corn- take the verdict of the country upon its expediency. There rnerce, the question of peace and war, and all the most is another practical mode by which you mayproceed to at vit al subjects that can possibly engage the atten- Lain s our °beet I remember at the end of the session of Hoe of this house or the consideration of statesmen. 1818 it was my fate, a t has bee a the fate of the noble lord (Hear, hear.) When I first, listened to the observe- to-night, to bring before the consideration of Parliament tiers of the noble lord I thought he was about to counsel the question of interference in Italy. I have in my mind 'a ac' ion of the most decisive and energetic character. The perfect recollection of the events which took place in 1847 noble lora said it was the duty of this country not to :than- and It-48, and although the noble lord may not condescend don the affairs of Italy. He laid down that position with to profit by the experience of that adventure, I confess the utmost precision. Now, I can hardly suppose that the myself that the consequences were so sad, and have been so noble for by declaring that it was the duty of this coup- opposed in my opinion to the progress of Italy and to the try not to abandon the affairs of Italy, could, after all that amelioration of the condition of Italian society, that I teem has occurred on the subject, have confined his meaning ble lest he should embark in a like enterprise again, andlest merely to the communication of a note from a Minister to weishould reap from that conduct the same bitter and de the Court of Naples or of Turin. The noble lord, indeed, solating fruits. This leads me to thesecond practical means st a ted there were circumstances which might demand the by which you may attempt to emancipate, as it is termed, most decided conduct on the part of this country. He said, Italy. You may have diplomatic communications— you if Austria, for example, required the suppression of the may have what you had in 1847—first friendly advice, a nd lib er ty of the press on the part of Piedmont, then there is afterwards, what are c alled " admonitions " to the ru li ng no step which he should not be prepared to take on such Powers ; and I have not the slightest doubt that without an occasion. (Hear.) But, strange to say, the only formal declaring war and without the active co-operation of fleets proposition that I find in the papers upon which the noble and armies, y ou ma y thus set a great portion of Italy in lord founded all his observations—that for repressing the flames, and may reap consequences which we may all have liVerty of the press—does not emanate from the Austrian deeply to deplore. (Hear) I will try for a moment to Plenipotentiary, but from the representative of our great trace what would be your diplomatic action under that ally, the Emperor of the French, by whose aid and whose second system upon Naples. But before I do that, there aid alone these magnificent visions o f It a lian re g enera ti on is one observation which I cannot help impressing on the are to be realised. (Hear.) N ow , s i r , if I l oo k to the house. The state of Naples is declared by Lord Clarendon papers to which the noble lord has referred I find language to be so exceptional as even to justify the violation of the of a very precise character upon the su bject o f i n t er f erence . golden rule of foreign policy, viz., non-intervention. Now, The house will recollect that when the protocols of the eon- it would b e very d es i ra bl e t o h av e b e f ore us , on au th or ity, ferences at Paris were first laid on th e ta ble, it appeared some description by the Government of what the state of that upon the Bth of April it was Count Walewski, the Naples is. I will for the moment assume that all those French Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs who, when tales which have reached us of ruthless and savage im the treaty was signed for the settlement of the Eastern Prisonment are perfectly authentic ; but if authentic, they question, and when all those points were arranged which are in all probability in a great degree the consequence of had given rise to the conferences, introduced in a formal the panic-stricken councils of a small sovereign surrounded manner to the consideration of the Plenipotentiaries TM' by jeal"usiee and difficulties fomented often and encou. tions which had no immediate reference to the principal raged by foreign Powers. I will admit all we hear to be cause, of their assembling. The house will recollect that, perfectly authentic—the ruthless imprisonments, and the so far as the protocols would show us when they were laid cruel and even sanguinary punishments. Well, hut I re on our table, the responsibility of that introduction , which member a few years ago, when there were alleged against many thought not very adroit, rested with the French Austria the same horrible stories of the imprisonment of Minister. But there were subsequent papers placed on the citizens—the flower of the worth of Italy—in distant fort table of the house which throw considerable light upon ressos. (gear) Who has not heard of the names of men this point, and proved that it was not Count Walewski in the highest walks of literature and science who have who really was the cause of the subject being brought for- been the it-mates o f A us t r i an dungeons? I don't kn o w ward. It was upon the Bth of April that Count Walewski, what were the par articular causes which induced those im after the settlement of the main question, s a id, prisonments. If I enter into that, I enter into the inter "lt was desirable that the Plenipotentiaries, before they nal administration of the country, and the principle of separated, should interchange their ideas on different sub- non-interventio n in foreign countries is much endangered; jects whim required to be settled, and which it might b e but I want to know what there is in the state of Naples advantageous to take up in order to prevent fresh compli- more exceptional than there is in the case of Austria ; and cations." Then Count Walewski went on with that remark. if the cruel impriSonment of citizens by a Sovereign is able exposition—fresh, lam sure, in the memory of every considered so exceptional a thing as to permit the viola gentleman who hears me—in which he showed that Glom tion of the cardinal principle of our diplomacy, why do we was in what i s called an " abnormal stete," that the Roman not violate it in the instance of Austria? (Hear, hear,) Legations were also in an "abnormal" condition, and that Why, when we hear of those dreadful banishments to the affairs of Naples were not abnormal, but "exceptional." l Siberia with which hon. gentlemen are so familiar do we (A laugh.) Now, when those papers were placed on the not consider that an exceptional case ; and what other table, many gentlemen, while wondering at the indiscre- difference is there between Naples, and Austria ' and Rue tion committed by Count Walewski, must have felt t,"4 , si c than this—that Naples is a weak Power and the others are very powerful ones ? I would impress upon the • house, therefore, that it should be very cautious upon this bead. Now, let us see what will bo the action of the second practical coutse in the case of Naples if we pursue it. We determine not to go to open war to emancipate Italy ; but still the condition of Naples is so intolerable as to warrant interference though not in a military form. Then, Sir, we have an admonition—England and France publish an admonitory note to the King of Naples, and, perhaps, an English fleet rides in the bay of Naples. Every body knows what the consequence of that would be. The instant that the discontented portion of the popula tion of that kingdom find that Naples has lost the good offices of the Western Powers, that process takes place which the noble lord has referred to—bands of the Italian population are reused. They will reason thus. They know well, when their own Sovereign is lectured by Eng land and France anti an English fleet is in the offing, that if they rise, and rise successfully against their Sovereign, Austria dare not interfere. I deny the proposition of the noble lord, that an insurrection in Naples is a necessary prelude to an Austrian occupation. If England and France arouse the passions of the Italian population by proclamation and by lecturing the King of Naples, and if an English fleet is in the bay, Austria will not occupy Naples. The noble lord who introduced this question seems to think that there is no contest going on in Italy but between worn-out dynasties, and some intelligent anti well-educated persons of the superior classes, who desire his great specific for all its evils—constitutional govern. ment. I do not think that this is a true view of Italy. (Hear, hear.) There is in Italy a power which we seldom mention in this hone", but without considering and under lean/ eg which we shall never rightly comprehend the posi tion of Italy—l mean the secret societies. (Hear, hear.) The secret sccieties do not care for constitutional govern ment. (Hear, hear.) They do not want existing society ameliorated, they want it changed ; and the objects of that change can neither be obtained nor secured by those en lightened institutions to which the noble lord refers. We know something more of these societies than we did. Since 1848 we have had means of obtaining a knowledge of their numbers, organisation, principles, and objects, and without some considerations of these it would be absolutely impossible for us to form a conception of what would be the consequence of our interference in the affairs of Italy. It is useless to deny, because it is impossible to conceal, that a great part of 'Europe—the whole of Italy and France and a great part of Germany, to say nothing of other countries—are covered with a network of these secret societies, just as the super ficies of the can th is now being covered with railroads. And what are their objects? They do not attempt to con ceal them. They do not want constitutional government ; they do not want ameliorated institutions ; they do not want provincial councils nor the recording of votes—they want to change the tenure of land, to drive out the present owners of land, and to put an end to ecclesiastical esta blishments. Some of them may go further. Do you think that, with their complete organisation, when Austria can not interfere to occupy the kingdom of Naples, when the King is lectured on his throne by the Western Powers, and when, as the noble lord says, the feelings of the people are roused, these societies will be quiet ? (Hear.) We know what they did before. Their energy and their orga nisation carried everything before them. lam told that a British Minister has boasted—and a very unwise boast it was—that by holding out his, hand he could raise a revo lation in Italy to-morrow. I believe it is not impossible, with the means at his disposal, that be might. What would happen? You would have a republic formed ou . extreme iiinciples, and there may be many intelligent and well-meaning persons—l do not say in this house— who would say, " And what then r "Nothing can be worse," they would say, "than the presentstate of Italy; let ns try u Re i Republic, or even a republic of a still mote fiery colour." But the question of Italian politics is not of that simple character. Rome is not far distant from Naples. The passage from Naples to the States of the Church is not difficult. You may have triumvirs again established in Rome; the Pope may again be forced to flee ; and my hon. friend behind me (01r. Spooner) maj say, "So much the better"—(laughter)—and not a cardi nal may be left in Rome. What will be the consequences •of that? The two great Catholic Powers of Europe - France, whose Emperor boasts in these protocols of being tit* eldest eon of the church—that ally with whose bene ficent co-operation Italy is to be emancipated—and Aus tria will pour her legions over the whole Peninsula. You will have to withdraw the British fleet.; your admonitions will be thrown into the mud (as they deserve), and your efforts to free Italy from the occupation of foreign troops will' terminate by rendering the thraldom a thousand times more severe, and by aggravating the miseries of the un fortunate •people whose passions you have fired, and whose feelings you have this night commenced to reuse. But is, that all the evil?. If the movemoat which commenced at the conferences at Paris is to to be followed up ; if the proto cols are to be suceeded by sperThes of the noble lord the member fur Loudon while Parliament is sitting, and by ad monition and written lectures by cur foreign Ministers and by our representatives abroad during the autumn, in all pro bability you will again have Italy in flames, and you will again crush that progress which has been always going on in time of peace, and when we meet again we may find the posi tion of the Peninsula infinitely worse. But do not suppose that that is the whole of the evil. What I have said I Con sider—so far as the future can be certain—to be the certain consequences of the policy which you are pursuing. What I . am now going to refer to are merely possible results, but they are results of so terrible a character tbat it is my duty to refer to them, though I do so with reserve and some feel ing of awe. The secret societies are not confined to Italy, as I have ventured to remind the howl°. They are at this mo ment more numerous, more active, and in a higher state of organisation in France than in any other State of &trope. If Italy be in flames, if the Italian secret societies be successful, do you think it will have no effect on the French societies ? They are of course always in a state of excitement and ready to ast upon every occasion. Parliament and the country have confidence, and have justly confidence, in the character of the great prince who now rules France. He is a man of rare sagacity, he has been schooled in adversity, and he is a man who is at this moment at the head of a numerous and triumphant army devoted to him. You May therefore allow Parliament to be prorogued with little fear as to the =lac (palaces to France of the system in which you are now about to engage in Italy. But we all remember another great prince who sat upon the French throne, whose sagacity during his reign was also proverbial, who was never mentioned in this house but in terms of panegyric on both sides of the house, wile also had been schooled in adversity, and who was also seconded by an army which he and his princes had themselves formed; which was fresh and flitshe 1 with victory, and which was led by great generals devoted to him , and eager to prove their devotion by the assertion of his rights and the maintenance of his throne. But that great prince fell suddenly, and he fell solely and entirely by the action of the secret societies. (Hear, hear.) That I apprehend is a fact which no man acquainted with the events of 1843 will deny. No doubt that terrible catastrophe was assisted by a great misfoitune which then occurred to France. In 1847, When a member of the British Cabinet (whose career I have commemorated in this house already) was sent to give advice and counsel to the Italian princes, there happened to be a season of unexampled want in Europe, and especially in France, At no time within the following yesr were the' means of sustenance and of employing labour so deficient. What is the condition of France at this moment ? A terribl3 visiSation has fallen upon that country. The, charity of more than one nation and the admirable measures adopted by the ruler of .France to mitigate the consequences of that visita tion may enable the next season to be passed without that misery which fell upon the country in 1848. But the pros pect, in a material point of view, is very grave, and if you commence another campaign Of Liberalism—the expression of sympathy without being prepared to support it by acts—a policy convenient for a Minister or a public man who wishes to make a political demonstration, or to au ambitious mon arch who wishes to increase his territories, but one which a wise Parliament will hesitate to sanction with its ratification —if you once embark in this scheme of raising the passions of the Italian population, as the best means of ameliorating their condition and mitigating the politiFal evils of their country; and if the consequ.aices of that policy should be concurrent with a period of great agricultural distress in France, it will require all the sagacity of the most sagacious prince and all the resources of the army (however numerous and however victorious) to guard against the danger; and fortunite will itbe for Fi ance and for Europe if they escape the most fatal results. I have touched upon these points be cause this is no holiday question. We are now ia the very lees of the session, and this may probably be the last day on which there will be assembled so large a number of members as were present when the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) addressed the house. The noble lord has commenced a course which, if not watched with vigilance and care, may involve the coun try in proceedings the consequences of which it is dif f icult to foresee. I certainly find encouragement in, the language of the First Minister. Notwithstanding the proud protobol of the Conferences of Paris ; notwithstanding this despatch of the 27th of March from M. Cavour, which must have been delivered behind the scenes, and which in the papers appears as a speech of Lord Clarendon; notwithstinding all the details of the protocols, it appears to be the calm, the well-con sidered, and the sot—irtermination of her Majesty's Minis ters to do nothing. (Hear, and a laugh.) I believe that the noble lord, profiting by the past—(hear)—remembering his experience of the years 1847 and 1848, has made up his mind not again to be seduced into a position so difficult and so , dangerous as that which he then encountered. I will also say that I have such confidence in the wisdom of the Em peror of the French that I feel persuaded that, as regards the affairs of Italy, heis of the same opinion and determination as the noble lord the. First Minister. (A laugh.) I hope I am not wrong in this anticipation, but it cannot be uuadvisa ble when such a subject as this is brought before the house to meet it fairly in discussion. Let us not as on former occa sions be met with the poetry of po'itics. (Hear.) I can feel for the condition of Italy as keenly as any gentleman in this house, whether he be a First Minister or an ex-First. Minis ter. I hope and believe that the time will come when in Italy there will be neither secret Societies nor *owned despots ; but these are questions for the closet, not for a practical and popular assembly. We have to deal with the facts before us, and if we raise up an agitation against Ans• trian rule without a distinct conception of the objects at which we aim and the line Of conduct which we intend to pursue, we shall be arresting the progress of Italy and aggravating every misfortune which has been brought under our notice. (Hear, herr.) It is impossible to conceal the fact that the great power of Italy is Aus tria. Both the noble lords have admitted that, unless we are prepared to enter into an internecine struggle with Aus tria, our object ought to be to render the s ustriap rule as mild and beneficent as we can. At least we ought not to encourage those who aro prepared to conspire against that rule, but who .re prepared to do nothing else. I was in Italy long before the affairs of 1848. The Government of Austria was not that Italian Government which poets would imagine in their dreams. It was notja!system of Govern ment under which Petra] chs were crowned with laurels in the capitol, but it was distinguished from the other Governments of Italy by an immense expenditure of Imperial—not Italian —treasure upon great public works, by the light taxation of the people, and by the progressive material improvement of the country. That was something. It was good to have a country wit t roads unrivalled, with means of communication yearly increasing. That is not, it is true, the only object of life, but I need not imp ress u p on h on . gen tl emen th a t mate rial comfort is a basis upon which you may, and in time pro bably will, establish civil and political rights ; that the richer a people become the more anxious they are to guard that wealth ; and that, whatever we may say of the Austrian rule, it was, so far as Lombardy was concerned, a iule under whieh at least the material character of the country was greatly im proved. I have not been in Lombard since that unfortunate year, 1848, but I have heard that the picture of society is now of a very different character. I hear that in consequence of the affairs of 1818 - taxes have greatly - increased, the public works have been arrested in their progress, and that the ma terial development of the country has much diminished; therefore by the course we took in 1818 we have not improved the condition of Lombardy. That leads me to my last point, our position with regard to Sardinia. (Hear.) The noble lord the member for London (Lord J. Russell) laid it down as a principle that, although= there may be in the treaty with Sardin4 no 1 rmal stipulation that vs., will sup'pott that con entry against other Powers, yet, after its allegiance to the gnat alliance and all that has occurred since, we are bound in honour to give it that support if it s'sould be atta• ked. The noble lord the S'irst Minister (Lord Palmerston) seemed not to question that position, but rather urged upon the at tention of the house that there wasno fear that Sardinia w 0 ald at tack Austria. Now, I think it undesirable that a man of the great character and influence of the noble lord the mem ber for the city of London should in this house volunteer en gagements to other countries which the litera scripta of the treaty does not authorise ; but I certainly agree with the noble lord that any attack upon Sardinia by any Power in consequence of the internal policy which she pursues would constitute one of those grave conjunctures which would demand the most serious consideration of the British Government, and could certainly not be encountered by a despatch or an admoni tion. Let me, however, remind the noble lord, who says that there is no danger of Sardinia attacking Austria, of what occurred in 1848. It was Sardinia that attacked Austria. It was when Austria was supposed to be in distress and in de spair, even while negotiations of a not unfriendly character were going on between the two Courts, that the King of Sar dinia made, as it were, a nocturnal attack upo i his Austrian neighbour, and commenced the war which ended in his signal discomfiture. I hope that the present King will profit by that experience, and will feel confident that if he, within his own dominions, pursues the policy which he believes to be for the advantage of the great body of his people he will re tain the respect of Europe, and will be safe from any unjust attack. I should deeply lament that any occupation of Sar dinia by Austria should take place. That would indeed be a conjuncture which would require the deep consideration of this house. To judge from the past. I cannot bring myself to bOlieve that any danger of that kied exists ; I cannot but be lieve that the King of Sardinia is safe so long as he remains within the limits of his own dominions, and pursues that policy in the management of his kingdom which he has a right to follow. If anything can give to him power to develops his whole political system it is the maintenance of peace in Italy. I am persuaded that, if the policy recommended by the noble lord the member fur London is followed, you will have the position of Sardinia endangered—not by Austria, but by the' revolutionary element, exercising its sympathetic influence upon the secret societies of Piedmont; and that throne will fall, not by the hand of Austria, not by the interference of foreign occupation, but by the efforts of men and bodies of men, who have in view far other objects than the constitu tional improvements which wisely engage the attention of the King of Sardinia, and the subversive career of which will be accelerated by the motion wade by the noble lord to-night. The noble lord the First Minister tells us that he cannot con sent to the production of the papers now asked for. I can hardly suppose that tie noble lord the member for London expected them to be granted; but he has had an opportunity of placing bef.re the house and the country the policy which he advocates. I entirely dissent 'trona the views of that noble lord. (Hear, liar ) I say, if you will interfere with Italy, you must interfere with fleets and armies, and be prepard to meet the consequences. (Hear, hear.) If you interfere in Italy, you must make up your minds for a war of prolonged duration a war that will tax your resources to the uttermost, and which, once it is commenced, you must continue until you have fully accom plished the objects for which you embarked in it, and have in fact reconstituted the map of Europe. (Hear, hear.) That is the only mode in which you can interfere in Italy. If you are not prepared to do that, for the sake of the Italians, for the sake even of liberty and civilisation, you will avoid stirring up the passions of the population of that peninsula. (" Hear," and a faint laugh.) I am confident this view is right, although you may smile at the association of the words " liberty and civilisation" with Austrian rule. (Hear, hear.) We are told that we can expect nothing from Austria. Let me impress on the house this point—that Austrian statesmen are men of the very highest enlightenment. Among these are the present Prime Minister of Austria and the Minister of that country at the Court of Rome. Prince Metternich is a statesman distinguished above all others for his freedom from prejudice and passion, and a man who has an interest in self-government ; he must feel that, if Italy were tranquil and undisturbed, Austria, being a powerful nation, could afford to be clement, to trust, and confide. It is the King of Naples—the little Sovereigns, teased with constant con spiracies, ;who, rather from a feeling of panic than any natural cruelty or arbitrary disposition, are driven to those excesses which we all equally deplore and desire to see ter minated. No man can wish to fill dungeons with his own subjects. I remember perfectly well that when Lord Minto went to Italy in 1817, and at the request of several of the northern Courts tendered his advice on the part of the Bri tish Government, the same King of Naples, who is now de picted to us as quite a Caligula, was so anxious to establish some form of constitutional government in his dominions that be applied to our Government for their good offices towards that end; and Lord Minto, at the King's express desire, re paired to Naples, and for a considerable period I believe en tertained most sanguine expectations of success. It was the sudden outbreak of the French revOlution which put a stop to the arrangements then in progress in Naples. (Hear, hear.) For these reasons, although there can be no division to-night .on this question, I hope the house will refuse to sanction' the course recommeaded by the noble.ord —I hope it will arrive at this conclusion :—if we agree to interfere in Italy, let it be a real interference ; or, on the other hand, if we aro not prepared to act, if we are not prepared to give effect to our policy by force, then the best thing for a:s will be to remain silent ; not to rouse the passions of the popnlation ; not to upset thrones—a policy which can only end in aggra vating the thraldom of Italy, and may leacl•to consequences still more fraught with disaster to Europe. - (Cheers.) Mr. BOWYER had' been told by persons on whom he could rely, that the evacuation of the Roman States by foreign troops would very soon take place, and be trusted that no more attacks would then be heard upon the Roman Government. Nothing would tend more to prevent foreign armies from leaving the Roman States than speeches such as that which had been delivered by the noble lord the member for the city of Loudon, who was anxious to introduce into Italy notions which were inapplicable to,the conditioa of that country. He concurred with what had been said by the right hon, member nor Buckinghamshire, that it was impos sible to carry into effect the views of the noble lord without sending out a force sufficient to revolutionise Italy; and be lieved that if the noble lord occupied the same position as the noble lord at the head of the Government, he would take a different view of the subject. Count Cavour had placed be fore the conference a monstrous document, recommending a most ridiculous plan for the government of the Roman States; and had said, that unless certain •things were done, there would be danger of revolution in Italy. Now, the danger arose, in a great measure, from the violence of 'the pres, which made attacks of the most ferocious character against constituted authorities and the Church, and from the viola tion of laws of property. It was gratifying to find both the leader of the House and the leader of the Opposition taking a reasonable view of the matter. He should be glad to see a constitutional Government established ; but such Speeches as that of the noble lord the member for the city of Loudon were not calculated to promote the progress of civilisation He trusted things would be allowed' to take their natural course, and that the Roman States would be left to manage their even affairs without any foreign interference. (Hear ) Mr. M. MILNES said the noble lord at the head it the Government had given no right to the right hon. 'gentleman opposite to assume that ho had come to the same 'ponclusion as himself on this important question. He said (Mr. Milnes) did not say that the Austrian Government was at present ac tuated by any desire of aggression, but her previous conduct rendered it necessary to watch her conduct most (carefully ; for under pretence of assisting the Sovereigns of the States applying to her, she might eventually occupy 00 whol : of Italy. (Bear.) .11e believed the Sardinian Government to be at present in no peril, but no one could tell whit its posi tion would be if it had not the good will and goodi wishes of this country. Sardinia would be looked upon wth an evil eye by the Absolutist G overnmen t s o f th e Conti ent, and therefore it was the duty of thi s coun t r y to thro over Sar dinia the shield of its p ro t ec ti on. H e did no t thi n th e ques - N i tion of the indep en d ence o f Italy isas at all mice up with the question of reli g i on. If th a t i n d e p en d ence ere esta blished there wo u ld b e no f ear o f secre t societies, rof any 'other danger which some people apprehended t society. The Sovereigns o f It a ly near ly a ll ac t e d unde r f ore i n instiga tion, and that he b e li eve d w as the principal cause o the pre sent state of Italy. The Emperor Napoleon I. hid always said that one of the greatest objects of our policy wps the in dependence of Italy. That declaration would certainly not be forgotteu by the present ruler of France, and ought lways to be remembered by us. I Mr. WHITESIDE said this was a subject of j deep in terest, and the speech of the noble lord the members for Lon don upon it was logical and clear; but if his object were to draw some definite statement of policy from the nioble lord at the head of the Government he certainly had I not suc ceeded, for no one who had heard that noble lord could have understood what his argument or what his policy vias. The noble lord had displayed the faculty of talking for aeconsider able time peacefully, and saying nothine. The noble lord had declared no policy. Lord Clarendon's proposition was to deal with a hard hand with Popery, and to secularisb the Pa pacy, which meant the overthrow of the government of the Church. And had the noble lord the member for • Tiverton endorsed that policy ? What did the paper which was signed by the plenipotentiaries at Paris say ? Why, that the armed occupation of Rome was to cease when the authority of the Pope was consolidated. Why, that was, in reality, postponing it to the Greek calends, and that was the argu ment of the noble lord the member for London, and it had not in any way been met. When did the noble lord (the member for Tiverton) say that armed intervention was to cease 7 He had said nothing about it. It hud been said that within the last fortnight Lord Normanby, the amb ssador in Italy, had advocated the armed intervention of A tria and Franco, so that we had one ambassador in Italy ho ding one argument, and another ambassador in France holdin another. The noble lord the member for London was justified in asking the noble lord at the head of the Government wh t he in tended to do. That noble lord would have said, Of he in tended to follow up words by actions, that if Naplas did not behave itself we would blow it to pieces. Instead df that the noble lord had said nothing, a course which he (Mt. White side) could not but characterise as childish. Was it the rule of the noble lord's policy to have barren protocols and nothing else ? Ho believed that the protocol on Italy would lead to war, and the permanent occupation by armed troops of Italy. There seemed to be something like a sarcasm in the. observa tions of the noble lord the member for London, when he re ferred to the Pope. Ho said that if the troops veer° with drawn from Rome tho Pope would settle with hi people. Suppose the people settled him. (Laughter.) ere the troops withdrawn he apprehended' that the cardin is would as speedily quit the place as they did before, and Rome would be deprived of some of its most respectable inhabitants. (Laughter. He (Mr. Whiteside) believed that the pourse of the Government here would exasperate the people) of Italy into revolution, and when in revolution the Government would leave them to their fate. Mr. J. G. PHILLIMORE said of all governmente the go vernment of priests was the worst, and the government of the. Pope was the most mischievous in the world. Thei appear ance of an English fleet in the Bay of Na files world bring the King of Naples to his senses in a day. The policy of Austria had always been to keep her subjects in sensual enjoyments, in order to keep the people from th a t) f ree d om to which they were entitled, He was astounded to find that the right honourable gentleman opposite (Nlr. Disraeli) should defend the policy of Austria and a Metternich. The policy of Metternich was that of despotism and nothing'else. As to the Emperor of the French defending 'the Papacy, he (Mr. Phillimore) believed that much as France had sUbmitted to, there was one thing that she would never toletate, and that was that her present ruler should shed the' blood of France in putting down the liberties of Italy. • Sir J. WALSH said the French had created, a word which ought to be introduced into our language. It 'was iipecialt6. The meaning of the word was an aptness for cert+ things. Now, he thought if there was one thing which the noble lord the member for London was deficient of specialte ?n, it was di p l om a c y. Now, however, the noble lord seemed again in clined to try his bandat it, and to come forth againin an old eharacter. Tue noble lord seemed to think that we ought to interfere in the Papal State s. As the withdrawal of the troops would immediately produce revolution, he (Sir J. Walsh) would be glad to know if the noble lord expected 'that the Emperor Napoleon would allow himself to be madem tool of by this country in a course of policy entirely antagonistic to all his principles. He (Sir J. Walsh) could not look upon the political parties in Italy as being so innocuous as some gentle men imagined. Why, some of them advocated the ;policy of the stiletto, and many'of the politicians of Italy weir simply Red Republicans, which was another name for the old Jaco binism. Could proper safety be placed in such hands ? He believed ,not ; for there was a revolutionary element a existence in Italy, which, if not narrowly w ached, would defeat the objects of the best friends of Italy. lie; thought that the noble lord at the head of the Government had been wise in speaking a good • deal and saying nothing, and he supposed the noble lord the member for London had now nothing to do but to withdraw his motion, which he presumed he had never s3riously intended to press en the attention of the house. Lord J. RUSSELL said that his observations had been ow tirely addressed to the subject of the occupation of one coma' try by the troops of another. He had never prop sod toil interference between any sovereign and his pe;,ple. He 10 1 said that he c ild not admire that Government whose policy was such that it required a foreign arrred force to support it. rho right honourable gentleman the member for Bucking' hamshire bad not at all addressed himself to the subject of foreign intervention. He supposed that the right bon. gentleman had prepared his observations before he had heard those of his (Lord J. Russell's) own. With regard to the speech of his noble friend the Prime Minister, he must sal that it had given great satisfaction to the honourable mew' ber for Dundalk (lr. Bowyer), and it had curiously enouP, given complete satisfaction to himself (Lord J. Russell). It was satisfactory, because it was an indication that the Go' vernment did not int3nd to abandon attempts to carry out tb! objects he had proposed. It hat been urged that there to been secret societies in Italy, and therefore that fiSreign °cow pation was necessary. On the other hand it wa g said, that becauso there was foreign occupatio n there were secret societies, and thus they might go on argil' ing for ever in a ci , ele. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that Por e Pius IX. would in duo time return to that system of g overn' ment which he adopted in the early years of his sovereigotir and which he believed had been productive of very g reat benefits. The noble lord having adverted to some of th e objections which had been raised in reference to the detai l of his opening speech, expresSed a hope that b ene f i t w eal aiise.from the discussion that had taken place. The SPEAKER then put the question that the motioo be withdrawn. Lord J. RUSSELL—Not withd r a wn ! L e t it b o ne ga iYe b' The motion wrs then negatived without a division. PARTNERSHIP AMENDMENT (No. 2) BILL. This bill was read a third time. On the motion that it do pass,. Mr. J. G. PHILLI MORE moved the following addition t ° clause 3 :—" Provided also, that no such loan shall b e f deemed to be protected by this act unless the lender thereo shall, within fourteen days after the same shall have been advanced, cause to be inserted in his own na me in thn Gazette of Loudon, Edinburgh, or Dublin, according as tb i principal place of business of the borrower may be in Engis Scotland, or Ireland, a statement of such advance, e xhibit/ the amount thereof, the person to whom and the term foe which the sum is made, the portion of the profits which t he louder stipulates to receive on account thereof, and the pat A , of the business by which such profits are intended to be 9 " quired." Mr. WILICINSON trusted the hon. and learned gentlenZ would not press the amendme n t. It was no d ou bt very. sirable to prevent fraud, but if s u c h p rov i s i ons wer e iut ro. duced they would so clog the bill as t o ma k e it en ti re ly is'lv A ‘ native. that Mr. MUNTZ supported the p rov i so , on th e gro und - " the bill as at present framed would l ea d t o co ll us i o ns of e 0 kind. Mr. PELLATT thought that if the proviso were agreed 1,1 persons in business would never be able to obtain any Ws at all. Mr. SPOONER was afraid that the bill as it stood W 0 „ 0 enable persons to obtain fi c titi ous cre dit, an d therefore ° thought the proviso useful. Mr. ROEBUCK objected to the clause. T, vie) . Mr. GLYN thought the right h o n. g entl ema n (Mr. —e t o would do well to withdraw a bill whieh was evidently °pen t ,. so many objections. In a uo th €r sess i on it m i g ht b e advan geously considered. • Mr. W. BIGGS opposed the proviso, which he thou' hi would give no security to the public. 0 51 Mr. JOHN M`GRECOR would give this bal. his u tra te . support if he thought it would pass this session'; but he .e alt lieved that it would be betterlf the Government would draw it for the present session Off' Mr. LOWE wished the hon, gentleman behind him . 0 4 Glyn), who had so great a fondness for registration, so „a register every bill he transact e d. If th e p r i nc iple wasg - ) in one case it would be so i n ano th er . (H e ar, 11 `0 The question was whether this lending on profits was in 5o a partnership. He contended that it was not, add the l ' o ° f ought not therefore to fetter such roans with the Weida, t o a partnership. If it was not a partnership, why ha u o tl house five times approved the principle .th tt it wag, n t - i i iO There was no occasion whatever for making loans e', be it character public; -it was like all other loans, secretio,"„ ' character, and they ought not to be treated - on dia e-3 0 grounds. If the .clause was passed ,by the conamitt e l e r would be te.ter to reject the whole bill at once ; and, the taining these opinions, he certainly could not consent to to introduction of the clause. If the' clause were PaSse 4 ',r) bill would be nothing b u t one vas t pitfall' and spare , Wle Mr. CARD WELL said th a t w h en th e h on . 'member or is .o of the ".pitfall " which the cl ause con t a i n ed the.ansWeloe that it was taken almost word for word from the AO °' .04 sachusetts. The house 'had alr ea dy a dopted a clause tr e3 to loans as parnaerships, and all that was now required o ' ls t bo insert a clause to give effect to the principle adopted 13 / c ter house. The, question as to whether loa n s o f this chap o f involved partnership was not a new one, and the' to Italy, France, and America had always treated these 0 05 0 in the same meaner, and the greatest" commentators. 0 ' er countries. had invariably insisted on the necessity of an, t ot rate system of registration of such loans. He contencle„u, psi the proposed amendment would hot be a clog on the bil ifo , would, on the contrary, tend to make the bill more eV° • and afford greater security to the public. (Hear )' a 104 Mr: LINDSAY 'was at a loss to nnderstand why: th 04 1 should allow a man to receive 50. per cent. for his without any interference, bat should step in. and VI o to such person should not advance limey on a flactua o ; 0 0 of interest, for that was really the object of this clause., u se clause, if agreed to, would b e pe r f ec tly unwor kable an d less, and would defeat the principle and oljects of th e t 10• He hoped if the clause were carried that the right bon. g' man.the President of.the Board of Trade would witbdr 3 o. bill. • o the Mr. T. BARING cont en d e d th a t th e c la use Would o w r e inoperative if it wore agreed to, and as a proof of ferred to the action ( f the law in Massachusetts and I° , 1 0 York. He felt stron g ly ,th a t pu bli c it y was indispenSA'Alo the the working of the p r i nc ipl e em b o di e d i n t h e bill, a u Lpli more he looked to the p rov i s i ons o f th e bill , th e mo re u; he felt that it was th e duty o f th e h ouse t o wa t c h the °'so4l' tious and effect of the Limited Li a bility A c t a lready P 3s a jis: Every other country had surroun d e d th e l aws of Wait e 05' bility with numerous precautions and safeguards. T b . ° , object of the bill was not t o h e lp th e p oor man, but 1% Do redly to enable the rich man to grasp as much proat A o ol 3 could, with the risk of losing as little as Possible. lie !b the most certainly, on the motion that the bill do p a ss, tard ell sense of the house upon it, for it was perfectly derqi u :i o ot' benefit alike to rich and poor, with the exception of pr" lug a spirit of gambling and specul a ti on 104 0 Lord PALMERSTON said he was perfectly at 3 4 .„eee1 l to understand what was the ast oun di ng diff erenc e he'o money lent at a fixed rate of int eres t, an d mone y lea' - t ioo share of profits: and why in the one case, regist il vo ot and publicity were th oug ht necessary in order' to P re % ••/ Ii fraud, and not c on s id ere d requ i site in the other ? (.J-e31;to01 , ppeared to him th a t th e principle which lay at the ,_ 0 0 5 11 of the opposition to nis bill, was the one which he the sa9 had died out, and w hi c h was that of limiting tr.nsact leii . e yd , much as possible, which had interfered in the assize of IS l iiug and which was evident in the laws made against forest s ar and•regrating. He trusted that the house would come to! eisicn fairly and openly on the whole principle of the hil',. o o o Mr W. BROWN thought th ere never w a s a more dal3g e ' a d measure introduced into Parliament than the preSent one , a d Wives entirely uncalled fOr by the wants of the countrl , o , of would, if passed, tend to shake and destroy the confidel; t d. "able tublic in the great monetary transactions of the co t !, 010 (Hear.) Our credit, as merchants, stood high Over a l 'oe world ; but, under.the operation of this bill, it would e °° „ 1 0 impaired and destroyed. The bill was really in effect eT: enable persbus to commit frauds u nd er act of Parliainen . l ,o Mr. HENLEY contended, that as the clause 104. ah :e been inserted into the bill, making loans advanced to share of profits part - hf the -assets, it would be necessarJ to introduce sem) prevision for affording information m us e, the character of the assets. Ho should support the eta t he en the ground that it merely carried out the principles 0 ' other clauses already agreed to. (Hear.) • Mr. MALINS was glad to hear from the right honon'bill gentleman that it was his intention to withdraw th e f oe if this clause were sanctioned by the committee, for it , one calculated to destroy the character of the measure. d i After some remarks f r o m M r . B rown , M r . Gregson, ' Mr.' Bass, The house divided ; when there appeared— For the proviso' 108 Against it Majority against the Government......—_- 6 „gi , Mr. LOWE said that in consequence of the decisi°'"a , come to, tht Government intended to abandon the bill. ('; t bo cheers.) Since he had i n t ro d uce d th e bill h e had r eceive At' opinion of Mr. Baron Bramwell, Mr. Justice Willes, t he t be; torney-General, the Solicitor-General, Sir F. Kelly, and eve' learned gentlemen, that in all loans where the lenders rec iii plo a dividend accordi ng t o th e ra t e o f pro fit s th ey were net s t as partners. The effect of the decision just come to 10 ..) deprive these contracts of one of their sa.feguards. Mr. DI'RAELI said that as a new principle had been rn pel duced into legisl a ti on by th e s t a t emen t' referre d t o, he u°oll practice would be followed out, and the ease and op' quoted laid upon the table of the house. Mr. LOWE said he had no objection to do so; the e 3s° be referred to was that of the Union nk. Mr. MALINS inquired if the opin ß io a ns referred to of tbe, t4 :t learned judges were not given when they were practisii i ' the bar ? (Hear, and laughter.) to After some remarks from Mr. HENLEY in opposib ° ,er extrajudicial statements being made in that house, the ject dropped. INCOME AND LAND TAXES BILL. This bill was read a second time. The Stamp Duties Bill an d th e R ace h orse D u t y Bill Tier° read a second time. The Episcopal and Capitular Estates Continuans o wa% read a third time andassed. sod The Mercantile Law Amendment Bill was read a 0 be time, on the understanding that the first clause should withdrawn in committee. hfi ,te he Lords' amendments to the Smoke Nuisance A' - „ 0 ? rant (Metropoli s ) A c t, 1853, A men d men t Bill wer e C °- dered and agreed to. The Civil Service Superannuation Bill was pestpo n till Friday. POOR-LAW AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND) Bl rA• til Mr. BLACKBURN moved that thi s bill b e rea d a th i time that day three months. di , Pi The LORD-ADVOCATE said th a t, no t w ith s tan bs e the opposition of some of the S co t c h mem b ers, h e f e lt 1 : 40 i this was a very important m easure, an d h e s h ou l d s uppe r the bill. The house then divided, when the numbers - were-- For the third reading. 95 Against it Majority The bill was then read the third time and passed. The Indemnity Bill was read a third time. The Nuisances Removal, &c. (Scotland) Bill was OP third time and passed. MARRIAGE LAW AMENDMENT (SCOTLAND ) BILL. Sir J. GRAHAM said that this bill most apnroprig' e followed th e N u i sances Remov a l (S co tl an d) Bill, and di plained th a t the effect of it was chi e fly t o com p e l a ( 1 °'"" cil.e of 21 days of one of the parties to the marriage. te t After some discussion the bill passed through counni" The Mercantile Law Amendment Bill passed thro lig committee. Upon the motion. of Mr. U. BERKELEY the CorrtlP Practices Prevention Bill was postponed. The Tithe Commutation Rent Cha rge Bill was with' drawn. The Ecclesiastical Courts Jurisdictio n an d T es t am ent ati „ and Matrimonial Jurisdiction Bills were a l so withdrat' r 'l The Formation of Parishea, & c ., Bill was read t'" time and passed. The Lunatic Asylum Acts Amendment Bill was rea d second time. The remaining orders were then disposed of, and house adjourned at five minutes to two.' rrVa , LONDON: Printed and P u bli s h e d b y BITTRDO No, 112, Strand, Piinterr at The Sun Mee NO.' Strand, in the P eci iet of the Savoy, ill tine ocntiv Middlesex, Tuealay t July ,15. 1356. - -. ~,., "' ( tioi to-i at 8 stall trait Actn 10 IT , Cow 'Mon are IN ill ff): and riatl a gra tlll .5 and ' By awl I Girl, try n 011/y) 61 . 1(1 hedlt 2, at high' by by a The with PlCtu Admi hal. ! I G duly 210, and 5 G TER , ton a 6 30 0 '—Gir l 10s., Wale 9 Vf Thes e the I. Grew the g, to ate] Tou ferahl tame G frOin' tram and Ir. Btrmt Rand kits. Wolvi 'We1;11 Wrex Itirke Dicke and 1 the 2! Stith 1 bOCIE, Ai thi No nor duly Ey and 1 Iron, ,by a bomb corm, VIA:1 tend, Nigh igurn i Teas kind, Offle 23, Price Place (Mar cone king Etre now Nvhv etre, era ( 'orn Urt t!op rata