The Sun. — London, England, 1831-02-26 00:00:00

ti A thlths •ansports, of pro visi o i od bt - zgl , should b e used as Well as they could, and all tlle r, and of the me ans f tie u"lgs were to be sold. In consequence of the ar lrejtteetlie_ntsothen made, the Admiralty was enabled to make t four years, sums larr Is which had been aid te - " u tez i rt ase the amount of 4,000/. or 5,000/. annually. discovered the want 4 ite thought it of pare ti„,.‘ ~ , to which the Right Hon. Baronet referred , a d aaye7 or -Leith harbour. Upon that subject he should IaIS of the doeK - Y tltzoille on the Treasury would suspend the works ule, and that ateara-eW of p _ epar i e t lori t ' l e f , until a new survey had been taken. That purpose r 11' Ask Of ' however, begun undur the authority of an ith regard to the ov h , „.. . Parliarnen apparent increase to t ti. 7l"sie tit ay.. , t• He had objseted to it on a former if the!, „ma But, he had then been left shine in his opposi- I be deceived f force to that extent o ',ooo /. I a: . e said the Right Hon. Baronet, a sum of itt l ernmett l , b t en expended upon the works, without the • the vote he prerP° 9edi li the vote last year wa r : the th e ni % e •oining to Parliament for authority to ex yet foun d ' /11" e Act o f ,-, Y; If the Hon. Baronet would look into es, he e s ,ooo ertsett. rarliament, he would find that the persons iat there were x" a- Pltt eu er a dock o pera 00,iteet. The at that place gave it to the naval de if these being consequence wae, that the Government ess, and We Deer required the naval yard at Leith, and from the he asked for Ia r, and 10,0 00 °P r i s t a gre et . it ta o f rtta Premises the Government had obtained the not keeping vote had ti eq n ot I .' e 'Y that had been expended. Thosepremises y its "P re " „ant , . ii , a ,' 1 , 4 fact, sold ; for the value of su ' ch premises nargin in his aas o ood k it4t eta. utepreciat de . The re:son was, that if they had eminent to keen 3 "'' h e he 4 the s a l . 0 ,, t of th • e • the could not have obtained the full va sans of keeping e4 e ,e, ho e , e ill ; so that, in to u Ol re, th m a j e , fact, the money was only an ad , on acceding 0 00 spk t , by the Government towards the erection or hich the Gover th e . The Right Hon. Baronet had also spoken of ch had of late ye . eeet,.,, _ iot a iaon eye r °I 'sure of Woolwich, and had said that the he increased e" for l lt I * • 'C knded ~e d , b ee was three times the amount of that voted. 'ol. —lie now a" of shoul d "O It would no: he found •to be quite so much. It increase ~. be apparent e ....-- T her e e recollected, too, that it • , i the f,liowing o te ;, • ,ho Pis te ' u ad been a dwarf wall protecting the shore from the r 29,000 men, lin e ) ) , • te t ' It was 14 , 40 , %al I t n danger of dropping down, and the Go :en He now P' e- liNi opp : n. l t n.t >ee l ., obliged to repair it, and had taken and that gave a 5 ) : I, tti tios t hit ," .i Y to alter its position, because its old • 101,0001. Th e in Itiene . _ it injured the passage of the river, by col and for stearn-edee4 . ; it ' ll l up e , : quantity of mud on the Opposite shore. 'and, 94,000/. Wererhee ' 4 ls o o:t anti., in in such a dilapidated state, tl•at it was lie expenditure for t . danger of fallina. If the Right Ho sed ; whereas, " 11 1 i t , r liiie ' n a s ter •ise e , aronet would look into the correspondence f expense were - ,e et e ltii -4 t h e . e tti , _ Admiralty and the persons who were So also, with rel e b t „ .., e mor in "g that work, be would find numerous re where a consider o f IL% ra neea frorn the Admiralty not to spend more money king the rmi"i en Yes le as al pe , _ the r t, usolutely necessary. Although d • daring the last still required l's - Go . bet, ne Government Y d the ne, i t ent intended that nething more should •e begun, an t hat aril! was found necessary to extend -to be devoted to of l ing e r Portion of the wall had actually given way. A oding all the ohjec t l to ripe san t of ... 0 int oared ;hotth moos had been expended than was at first nate would he fair ~ had arisen from the nei'eisity of effect- than for the last Y el o to t t arger repairs' Ni r ron, than had at first been deemed requisite, which this saving li o .„ e circumstance that it was necessary to pra the did not think t) that With 4 t he t th the work rapidly ; and the House would see for a diminution " -.. lisl e e G ov s e , .. G overnment were justified in increasing the ex ) On the co ot" pro ., a lien he m ast 1 ." th 'etl to informed them that 50/. a week was ex it that force eon erief ee . Put out the water that haul broken in through s during the last r , lair t tIV e &wall It' 1 o da "s e ee A • , tinder these circumstances, in any one dock-yard 9 I . nh ve node& • f d funds , the following t he i fhl Area, 'rich they could undertake these works, he was would be saved e ° . ‘e,• eared 0 0" i t . tr, h to say that they were justified in doing so. lof ten Con° • Ih t ear.)..... 11e a ar• k now came to another charge of the to I,sool.anit a c 6 ,0 Ron, B 14). Op t ~o r aronet —he meant to the expenditure of ' Board at 1, 0 °`" • • 44 , 1 mint' the building of a line•of battle ship at Born 'lyngßoard, at a salad Government had not taken a vote of that sou to soot a Y eif. 4 0, 0 t 4 th, t .„•pro' OO4 Purpose. In the estimates for 1829 a sum of > salary. It was Ito Be rl i . , was inserted for the purpose of building that the Marines, l e • 6,0 ' n e of-h 4,0 4 4 wa attic ship. In the course of that year only officers. He 113 u 'e; i ii tOO/. dev oted for that purpose, so that a sum of ock yards, charg ed s , tlit h e h _ .9 to the building of the ship still remained ving - there ' ought fetidW I,4.4l4 ' i : fl i ed of i Government. The application of the which, however, d , Vag tl et efore made strictly in accordance r.—(Hear.) ---l ie b l ' e I 4 re the Be purpos e for which it was voted. If the Right by persons who se e e I S ir. . to b aia li tee t would take the trouble of looking into mount of 3,0 5 ° 4 b e d ' sheet of the Navy accounts of 1829, he , therefore, that h 1 4: 14 find __ a s ent . t 4 %l et 613 to be the case. If the Right Hon. -(Hear.). It sv t 0 eir ' i l ialt y a w° 1 •11 , 1 look at the Records of the Ad use, as it had bee 1 4,. 4t7, 0 ' the would find among them such a balance sheet, casion, that itnP r° •fe t hrs, eP in is a it ; bat he was qui 4, total o _ l . } -9, as would satisfy even him. As to i t th e n umber' of men to be employed in the Navy, it liorit of that W e? : _., d r C r ; et ers. ti o ? I nt expectation of the late Government on blie Y • service a°l E oi k q ue " t the fleet from the Mediterranean to be able • odor , ' 61 It 4 e th at e supeiannu e , , nutnber from 32,000 men ' to only 27,000 them the full be li t he 1 'ro te r hey had not, e t% th e time had indeed,. made . that reducticn, be. erefore, wherever t o not quite arrived when the late Minis had given thew; I/0; to:quid ca, , 1W fe'gott ry their intentions into effect. It ought not superfluous an +r ~k t t i l, s, o en, that the sum voted for the Navy last year ions, he had ains i i ' "001 , o f • office WO, 111 f IPt ht which less than 5,300,0001. had a useless A ler 4 'so that . a pc . taro ~,there remained a balance of 280,000/. Tannuation ryas ~.. a tit ur the country - that had - bi . eirear./. thee r etir e . y , sum not been disposed epu te.—e . „ cf . „,!p eoe . zoned in the Exchequer, applicable to any they alteration, $ Ne t 'to Which _,, ao I t p ro the present servants of the Crown might cessor. There 7 ,4 t,ti p d i e4:e Per to devot 't Th It' h H e t on. Baronet con who, notwithstaa'',.... d th e d e • a . _ i pf ~ the _ awing out of this sum, and contemplated . received s im m op s t, the e te: "PeLding of 280,000/. abave the amount 114 of these P e p op i r of Lt . nat,s of last • •that the year ;F 0 of the supertuan ° „. et 4 itt /6 Year k t . , g rxe c. ri would be about 560,0001.—(Hear.)— . ent. TheePls,o , o t r n e , m ,, That tb sae' N_ e N av l 2 l ecl the mode in which the accounts relative fo e foie t e , e C. ~Y, had_ usually been divided, the Hon. Baronet to hie Majesty ","_. 10 ,Oe re .. Clerk) denied that the Act of last ear rendered months, from t°' ss e „ - ""dtv t „ 9 „ j , tie Irizbi r C' th u separate the charge for victualling the 2s. per man. defe lr -. • 1, 4 Pere e other expenses of that department. From called upon to t , oe ~ k rt wa 'Tun the tbl • a e it was impossible to ascereain I he should ha ips th' o oo -/I'd be th ' t , toen. ___ e cost of the wages and victuals for the Right Horn 00 e , r _ ts di re r ‘ter ega ,_ The Right Hen. Baronet had mis-stated sty of Mr. r" 0 li e at ed ''' amount of the whole estimates,—and as they at Learned Petard° , salt ski rt e out, i t . ~., 00 soy e for .... was net singular that neither the Hoc. to bow with Ill" , o w S. ever aitchllesex nor other ce he found tbar,4 , titt l e fura et • . , any Hon. Gentleman, „„ ised in cafe I. t• a ttirit _, u d tone, could understand them. ratstll expressly strh, e • er ' ni the Ne ter j teitie ff t advantage ought to have been stated, in vy, en account,ia 0 lit te tibi e i 3• such a departure from the old, simple, and ;h, the House ° i f he ti lt ed to I:°utae. With reference to su * perannuations, he !e of the arixtf• ..• & s e : t4 t 4 , now where the Right Hon. Baronet found in , eeldide , Statut e an . - ox, when tee tili anus . ything that warranted him in saying that a made , the sai ne Was salt • 44°11 t iv Ito allowance did not belong ht Hon. Rae ° s ail r t Y of • 11,1 d. paid p i weekly, though it did belong to a tde in America, , „ e sio t e 1 504 • . ,-, oo ;re''' vsii ti log, te . Paid quarterly ? According to this mode of American '-',. 0 1'. 4 4 01 to the First Lord of the Admiralty would not be ith res ect to the of tt .hd • it u _ e , p I toe ",..., t o es _ p rannuation allowance if the Hon. Member in was the li e w hie a i: of h e. were to move and cat r bit motion, that • y led the scheme ur it, ia, ben p a id , it ,‘ L is , 11 , 5,000/. a year lie should receive about to tt.)' . „ er ical l " i eli• Bateo2d. per day —(Hear, hear.) The Right trey to the l'''',,, fOW Ir a Yard robed talked . much of his reductions in the sat such was e" - •here `) h id 8 tit be itig 0 th i n , e extent of 56 offices ; but he (Sir tow from t i 79 Lo rd %tee "ed ov G. over the papers, and could make no hat the law al! e n, 01 4 Of v 'ler. Th oy , oi l , lie Ad , e first itetn was the salary of the First :at Act certa la d, h e ,e te mireltv r o f Elig 0 ~, I koll gat t h is . u 9 ,000/. a year ; and here lie must le Bank met .I _, it Jo _ tl s e4eeteti .% charge was rather extraordinary, when •ern n si),'," ed, y ; koss .Gast y rar i l, e nature and tendency of a speech deli tre was,. in i'le i.. , 10 . 1 11 4 to ;:iled that ay the Right lion. Baronet himself who le of voting Li"' 00 01 Ile t. St h a d d istinguished situation. T' •ee Right Hon. en in one groo„ a et, , et, ti called th i ggi• t - se er , eas eh e especial attention of the House to n the year the e h t lee of e fath er of the Mille Lord opposite, the !en given, bu t or il lii t 1 t'' the Exeh tbe _ke :k e the First Lo eqtter, had received only 3,0001. ode of voting . .0 to , . 'as h .e N ot , .rd of the Admiralty in time of war, f Parliament ' sirar it, N ob b ' , a % in ed. 1 0 , jace onet suppos b•ois it., this . 'Lowed 5 0001 year • , a in the time of peace. the ordinary e'`! td * be ery . obje e ~ 04 Biro ,t ation, he had expected that the Right ions, it etas e arr t Nt 4 h* would shit 1 , 4 is war.. .. have felt it due to himself to have Ito fur each ea` the h t t 04 . kur n ... / 1 ' I t only to show that his speech was not on who looke d a ,,hice . I , io CieritNasnd idle declamation. Nevertheless, he hat had take° yid tb a ' 6° o r 'tai Ll Dade, beed very glad that no such reduction had ronet would Alilt Us e he thought ; the 0 1 4 i IL k i i . n ot e ., , the high duties of the ,„ t i ca hle , _ co ._, 1 1 ,"4 of t Il e ea „," be dischai•ged for a smaller emolument. in auditor ot i'„ no tdr,, tjt h. 41 4 , 4 1 " that i t . • was intended to refer the goes to cover all l' es te t ,'" ' N itht b. , to a c o , ~: 4 0 ..,4i0n . 1 ,.._ mmittee—( Hear, hear)—but surely !lad called Ih e B e't u t . ge ( i or , i I , it Te 4 - 24 tlp ,_: . ' 4 . 1. ?1:1.7t ought, in the first instance, to • abuse. , ~ a o. _ e lti e , rB, ( . ? 1 ills own principles. As regarded infe corn the r e ti. 4 was no _ die o t .;Ity 47 Ntha rl e Right Hon. Baronet had proceeded I made out tea ret ur L 4 44 th e se Ps undue rigour, for be had reduced the , their bes t ' t he , a rtee t t Ysfi e ere tarY to the Admiralty inzious to se e l'i': t ll I T t o e Per , . t p h e 01 cent. Tine it was the present 1 Hon. Barotir„ t oo l Oee RC e t for o n 1 0 hi 'gil t , Admiralty was not in Parliament, .es bad no to o h ip ,"e io the }louse next week. The liture of the sto" iti)let4 h.., P re I 'e , w i t h til e ;the t lik t Il tt k"hte,l of the Board of Trade had •ticteel _ to or of tt k tit e io °ll e eh , ut hy the friends of the Ri ht Hon disburseine!" t ell i i e 4 :•11 1. l•N de 4 t ought to be reduced in ti 't g • d . however, bo a . je 1, i )11 0 il it 4 ter De nt of the Board of Trade ‘ t 1 " as urge ought not also hinge wa s ";.,0 0 °" e d Ott the n'. ' th e Aline • t , wtto a salary attached to each v books of 9 " - dar`•/ • 04,14' 4 , h It t em . • ,pr , e 0 kt, do ~ W v s allied ta be seen as bat the present e sheet P° pr 6 Vte, Iviti t "eY the m , i . e ,Ls held those appointments, It• T h6t 1 0 ) I % I n t h th "or• ' 'esti • . e i n e r ~ 1 t, e a , i , r eeae , • The principle of the present 1111- e first tin.. , do , . , i kref er f tol litt i , au to offices, w , .. • as avowed.) , this t—when t doubt %vi le . 1, 0 , ) t mt4 'ac e an offi c • ,ow to . tith to kto the eof no use, they abolished it, with- T variou oo or, „ ~„ h t. r. 7 , exp, i ,„ of . superannuation ; but with robe d ii" SO' ie t • N "ee ticker, 0 ec. ,,.. 0 , 0 ~ veil the in",., ne fi the Surveyors of the Navy, lat perf tw o otej k it 4 . e1ia,,, 4 " 1 -" , of 6661 they .1 . I 7 .4-. actually in . - iquiry in t° PPS, ill, ,w. Milli 'e of the Of It fl o lth sttre t , public, by abolishing the si esystein n o _ O O . le I N :4 re gar "an committ dan - e error of a rent s then rec u ' o nit' e , IN tt i int en d t ° Jamai • ca-yard. The late servants of such a d C° riell' s th '4 ' hki i ng t 0 m ar, , oo .° to °,°,, 0 ~,,,,, sen t one of that establishment as tin :eneral Pei li tt ci feon e . t ,O i'Z i tei l o ll .inis a , / : t he ightf..the Commissioners to Bermuda, Right 1 1 ° 1 ' . , ' - „,pof g tv f t o ( 4 . lo ne on trte , b Flom Baronet came into office, - t o - td • - te tte t Ae es r ap„ o . relight back to .1 • lie w° To fill 01 , • t l ittl of kt, clef; of fo B , Ja ma i ca, and a wvv r Bermuda. The Hon. Ba items. t oo° 0 mit he i k toioo k) then near Fo r rtly f 11..A 4 _ t Of. adverted to the frauds, to the , ~ ~n ps ..e 0 .oi. h o e In a 4 , I ,: t detected by Mr. Ves” Fitz9-eralil ra rriea co ll _ oo o o ;, 0 i t h_ttt4 act? IttittedYnl"ter of the Nav which frauds nil i a n s o r teo f e u ha u tig e ii t t i'e, held the a whil e a Right Hon. Gentleman :e str . 1 ,.., t his cA to t t hSt e , t i lti kkiil l.hou gh RPointment, and treated it as a mere op rto I 1 s "; „ ro po." - t he 1 ,4 11 11 4 tl 81° het ute Right lion B • -.1 ! . Baronet had reduced ~ ,„, ael r oe at ets t .9 ‘ %k r ew w e of the v. , I goe ,„ c o h, b,, . t cp ictualling Board, he had !stair . b ie ear d ea e a , Ust et t called the A 3onsidera , 10 , e ea eNassed, Dent,., and ho _ t Accountant-General of val of t he i .a 0 , sp . q,,,,t,.... o f - ~ 0 i t hi , - own he created that office? nate now 1 31 ,_a fib! iii4',4•1.7 , i , all ,L ..4 0, ..,e Othe r offi,er This ainly ace : a, __. . , eik t e t sl a gea,. g all • Mc' .Ye a), , %D. . 4 ~ h e patronage, ,* course, for a was in „ l ies , , .1,4, 41 h at.) Fie wag a little extraor• section be ; 0 Ow; "Niq,,, t . tar t ,, ,,, of agreed that the individual op. 1 tb th e °,..net b ad , treat information ; but if the i tig that _ take . ' 1 a t e_, House, e n Ppened now to sit on the Oppo. a had been the ;Je w Wh o) p, ne would, iven at °teed i n . _ , probably, hive desig -5 41 A scandalous job..-( Hear, hear.) He (Sir G. Clerk) objected to many of the reduc tions of the Dock-yards, and particularly to that of the office of mechanist at Portsmouth. This individual had the superintendence of the complicated machinery for the ma nufacture of blocks ; and, although it ❑light be injudicious and expensive (as an Hon. Baronet, Sir H. Parnell had shown) for the King to manufacture anything, still, as long as the establishment was kept up, the (Mice of me chanist seemed necessary ; mote particularly at a time when the Right Hon. Baronet was asking a vote of 60.000/. for constructing steam engines. He only en treated the Right Hon. Baronet to visit the Dock. yards himself, and he woul,l soon be satisfied, from personal ex perience, of the importance of many of the offices he had abolished.—(Hear, hear.) He had compared the abstract which had been furnished by the late Ministers with that which had hen prepared by the pre:ent Cabinet, and by that comparison it appeared that the proposed expenditure of this year considerably exceeded that which woulel have been incurred had the late Ministers continued in office. In the naval part there was an increase of 261,0001., as the estimates on the table were for 4,657,000/., whereas, had there been no change in the Cabinet, they would have been only 4,396,0001. The estimate for the Victualling Department was also a small excess : it was 1,217,000/. instead of 1,930,000/., making an increase of 19,000/. The grand tot.! of the Navy Estimates this year, as com pared with those of the last year, presented the following result : This year £5,875,28 ti Last year 5,894,953 Making a difference of X:280,431 Thus, as he had already stated, there was an exceeding of 280,0001. beyond the sum of 280,0001. which the last Ministers had saved, which was deposited in the Exchequer, and which the present meant to apply to their own purposes. Thus, supposing they did not exceed their estimates by the end of the year, they would have spat 560,0001. more than their predecessors in office. Sir JAMES GRAHAM—The playfulness and good humour of the Hon. Baronet called upon him to reply to the observations he had made in the same spirit. He would first dismiss what related personally to himself, when the Hou. Baronet had reminded him (Sir J. Graham) of a speech he had made on a former occasion, relative to the salary of the First Lord of the Admiralty. He assured the Hon. Baronet that that salary had not remained unre duced from any omission on his (Sir J. Graham's) part. The fact was, that the propriety of appointing a Com mittee to review the salaries of all public officers who were Members of either House, was at this moment tinder con sideration.—(Hear, hear.) On that ground only had he consented to fill the situation he. held, waiting only till the proper time for investigation should arrive. For himself he would say, that he thought any salary, however small, was infinitely more than would be merited by any services he could hope to render. The Hon. Baronet has! himself assigned the reason why the salary of the office of Secre tary to the Admiralty had been reduced. The individual holding it was not a Member of the House, and conse- quently Ministers bad thought themselves justified in deal ing with it without the intervention of a preliminary in quiry by a Committee. The Secretary himself, he was happy to add, was perfectly satisfied with the reduction that had been made. The Hon. Baronet had alluded to what he (sir J. Graham) had formerly said regarding the augment ttion of the salary of the First Lord of the Admi ralty. That alteration, it was to be remembered, occurred at a period when the value of money was greatly depreci ated. He was sure the Right Hon. Baronet would do him the justice to remember, that when he sat on the opposite side of the House, he comp] lined not only of the high sa lary of the Nohle Viscount, thin First Lord of the Admi ralty, hut, more especially, that besides he held the great sinecure place of Lord Privy Seal for Scotland.—(H e ar.) The principle for which he had contended, whilst sitting on the opposite side, and from which he had not departed upon coining round to the side on which he then stood, was, that when any person holding a sinecure office should also hold a high office in the State, the emo lument of the sinecure should merge in the salary of the other office, in the same manner as the half-pay of a military officer merges in the salary of any civil place to which be may be appointed.—(Hear, bear, hear.) He held it to be grossly improper that officers of the highest rank should receive their full pay, nt the same time that they held civil offices with a high salary, whereas the half-pay of an officer of inferior rank, amounting to no more than 150/. a year, would be suspended upon his taking an office in the State.—(Hear.)---He thought it unfair that the smaller half-pay should be subject to that rule, whilst the Secretary of State received a salary of 6,0001. a-year from that place, holding at the same time ' a military appointment with high pay; and the First Lord of the Admiralty, having a salary of 5,0001., held a sinecure office in Scotland, with emoluments amounting to 3.000/. a • year.—(Hear.)—The que,tion now before . - the Committee was, was the salary of the First Lord of the Admiralty fairly open to reduction, and he threw him self upon the House fully contented to rest upon their de cision respecting it. He hoped the House woull, at all events, acquit him of subterfuge or baseness in any of his proceedings. He would be judged - by them and by the country, as to whether he could be accused of anything mercenary—(Hear)—in his past conduct—be was going to say in his future conduct ; but then he looked upon all such promises as vain and empty at all times.—(Hear.) —He trusted that his Right Hon. Friend near him would give the House a satisfactory account of the manner in which he performs the duties of his office. By under taking it in conjunction with the Presidency of the Board of Trade, he had saved 2,0001. a year to the country. •—(Hear, hear.)—When his Right Hon. Friend sat on the opposite side, he then contended that it was possible to effect the saving, and that the duties of the Treasurer of the Navy were compatible with the business of another office; and now the question was !educed to this—had the duties been adequat,ly per formed cr not?—(Hear, hear.)--As far as he (Sir J. Graham) was competent to judge, they had ben efficiently discharged. The habits of business, the atten tion and the industry of his Right Hon. Friend, unable(' him to perform the two offices in an efficient manner. He must admit, that no Administration had ever been more tenacious than the last, whenever it was attempted to touch any place held by a Member of that House. When the gentlemen with whom he (Sir J. Graham) had now the honour to act, endeavoured to obtain the conjunction of the Treasurership of the Navy with anoth, r office, the late Ministry strenuously apposed reduction, and they ob• rained a vote of that House for the continuance of the two offices apart. But the present Administration te fused to shelter thetwelves under that vote ; and, on coming into office, acted upon the principle for which they bad contended when in the Opposition. They united the Treasurership of the Navy with the Presidency of the Board of Trade, and thereby effected, as he had already stated, a saving of 2,0001. a year. The Right Hun. Baronet had asserted that the duties of Treasurer of the Navy were cot discharged, in paint of fact, by the Presi dent of the Board of Trade, but that he received assistance from a person who had been superannuated from that office. Now he (Sir J. Graham) had the authority of the pre sent Treasurer for saying that he would undertake of him self the whole of the dutiea—(Hear.) As to the assist ance which his Right Hen. Friend was said to receive from the person alluded to, did not the Right Hon. Baronet know that there was a positive order in writing, forbidding the late Stirreyor to the Navy from going near •the Navy Office—(Hear, hear)—and that the duties had been for many years per'ormed actively, a-alously, and efficiently by the• present Surveyor, but exclusively performed by him alone ? He would give the House a further instance of the accuracy of the Right Han. Baronet's statements. The Admiralty Commissiorer for Bermuda, who had been for some time sick in England, put his resignation into my hands ; and tl:en the question arose whether the duties at Bermuda should continua to b performed by the Commissioner for Jamaica, who had for same time discharged them, together with his own duties, during the illness and alaence of the gentleman who had since resigned ? The Government were desirous that, as the Jamaica Commissioner hail conducted the Admiralty business of Bermuda efficiently, a considerable saving might he effected in the public expense by uniting the two offices. But it was found impracticable to do so. He requested the Howe to mark what would have been the result if the statements of the Right Hon. Baronet were accurate. It had evidently been intende I to establish ' against him a charge of having left the union of two offices separate for the sake of patronage, and of having fixed upon the country an unnecessary' charge for the pen sion of the retired Commissioner. But what was the fact? The gentleman who resigned, and who was a rela tive of a Gallant Baronet opposite, had only been ap pointed two years ago, and therefore, had no claims for a pension. He hoped . that he had made himself clearly un derstood by the House. He begged their att en ti on to the result. He had offered to a gallant ofiieer (of whom he had personally no knowledge, but had done much sarviee to his country, and had received many and severe wounds) the command of the first 'frigwe to which he had an op portunity of app tinting him. The officer of whom he spe ke was Captain Usher, with whose merits and set vice many Hon. Members were a cqaaintsd.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—But that gallant officer I- - eing unabled to go to sea again in 'consequence of his wounds, requested hi nt (Sir J. Graham) to give him some ot! er appointment instead of the command of the frigate, for whist his health rendered bins incompetent. Pursuing, there fore, his vietti of the public service, he nominated Captain Usher to the vacant Commissionership at Bermuda.— (Hear, hear, hear.)—So much for the disregard of the puldic interests, and of his own promises, with which it bad been attempted to charge him. So much fur the ac curacy of the -Right Hon. Baronet's statements, and for the fairness of his insinuations.--( Hear, hear. I—As to, the allusion which had been made to a Right Hon. Baro net opposite—after the opposition which that Gentleman had given to the late Ministry, and the consequences of that opposition, the phrase which had been used certainly surprised him, (Sir J. Graham.) His experience con vinced him that the best security for the public was the individual responsibility of all persons filling important offices. Now be considered two persons in one offic e exactly the number that was least advisable on the ground of secure responsibility. For if they differed in opinion, who was to decide between them? What he bad done, therefore, respecting, the Medical Commissioners was this. Wheu one of them, being a gentleman upwards of 70 years old, gave in his resignation, he (Sir J. G.) determined not to have that place filled, having long before made up his mind that one Commissioner was sufficient. It had been asked, how was assistance to be got, during the occa sional absence of the Medical Commissioner at the out ports? The Surgeon and Physician of Greenwich Hospi tal would attend to the business of the Commission in his absence. He would rest the character and conduct of his Administration upon one transaction which had been re ferred to. It happened that the Deputy Chairman of the Victualling Board was also Secretary to the Navy Board ; and with all respect to naval men, he would say, that if there was any one employment for which they were less qualified than another, it was the superintendence of public accounts. The gentleman of whom he spoke was an old officer upon half-pay, and, all things considered, he (Sir J. Graham) had thought it best for the public service that he should be removed from the department connected with the accounts. Put allusion had been made to a gentleman who was Secretary in the Accountant's Department, and whom he had made his private secretary. The circum stances were these : —Upon his (Sir James Graham's) first coming into office, that gentleman was recommended to him as his private secretary by two of his (Sir J. Gra ham's) relations, of whom one had been for several years connected with the Victualling Board, and had known the ability and experience of that gentleman in keeping public accounts. But in the course of ten days, although he derived the greatest advantages and convenience himself from the assist:nee of that gentleman as his private secre tary, yet, finding that his being so occupied interfered with his duties in the public office, he (Sir J. Graham) pre ferred undergoing the inconvenience which be should suf fer by being deprived of the gentleman's assistance, to occa sioning any neglect of the public service, and accordingly he allowed him to return to those duties which he was so comp: tent to discharge. He thought it right to add, that the gentleman bof been wholly unknown to him two months before. That was the transaction upon which the Right Hun. Baronet had thought proper to charge him with defection of the principles which he had maintained when sitting on the other side of the House.—( Hear, hear.) " Ah, Sir (said Sir J. Graham), I have had to do with other subjects very different from that since I came into office." An insinuation had been made respecting jobs, in the case of the works at Leith. Now what was the fact ? He found that there had been a con tract entered into with the public, the conditions of which had not been fulfilled, and the Right Hon. Baronet op .posite had opposed their fulfilment. But he (Sir James Graham) had called on the contractors to make good their bargain, and one of them, an Hon. Gentleman op posite, acknowledged the contract and agreed that it should be fulfilled, and he had kept his word. An outlay had been made upon those works by the Navy Board, who advanced 8,9001. for them. Now, he would say, that the consent of the House ought to have been obtained for that Outlay —(Hear, hear. )—But the Right Hon. Baronet opposite considered the sum expended upon the African squadron a wise and provident grant. Was it wise, or provident, or constitutional, to expend 10,0001. of the public money in that way without the consent of the House ? If, indeed, it had been necessary to make the outlay at a time when Parliament was not sitting, the Minister ought to take the first opportunity of explaning it to the House. But in that case no such thing had been done, and the matter was now, for the first time, brought before the House by him.—(Hear.)—With respect to Cremin, the sum voted by Parliament was 74,0001—the sum expended was 220,0001. He had before him a do cument-which contained an account of the sums voted by that House for the public works at Weevil, and also of the sums expended. In 1827 the sum voted was (we un derstood) 1,4301.--the sum expended was 2,592/. In 1828 the sum voted nil, expended £14,035 IS‘29 nil. 53,000 1830 nil h5,000 —(Hear, and laughter.)— Now, it might be a very pru dent arrangement to remove those premises at all that cost, but surely it ought not to have been done without the con sent of Parliament.—(Hear.)—In the form of accounts which he had adopted, the Victualling Department was separated from the Navy, and the half-pay was separated from the superannuations. He bad prepared a balance sheet in such a manner, that in future the sum expended in the past year, together with the sum estimated for the current year, shall appear• at once Before he proceeded farther, he was desirous of remarking upon one point in the statement of the Right Hon. Baronet. He had said, that the reduction of the Engineer and Master of the Mills was imprudent, and that had he (Sir J. Graham) himself visited the dock-yards, he would have been con vinced that it was imprudent. But the present estimates had not been prepared in a closet, with no one present but a second Lord of the Admiralty.—(Hear.)—lt bad been prepared with the concurrence of the whole Board, —(llear.)—He came now to what the Right Hon Baronet would excuse him for calling (notwithstanding the eager ness with which it had been argued) his very feeble de fence. The Right Hon. Baronet had said, that it was im possible to bring forward any estimate which should pre vent the necessity of applying the public money without the consent of Parliament. He (Sir J. Graham) was sure that it could be prevented, by not concealing the in tention of any necessary work, and by taking care to ask for a sufficient sum. But the Right Hon. Baronet asked, what should be done if any thing should occur in the course of the year to render a new force - necessary, or to call for an unexpected expenditure ? He (Sir James Graham) was sure, that, under such circum stances, a constitutional Ministry would come down to Parliament for a sufficient girt, if Parliament were sitting at the time of the emergency. If not, it would he base and cowardly of Ministers not to take the respon sibility upon themselves in the first instance, and after wards summon the Commons of Englan I as soon as possible, and take them into their counsels.—(Hear, bear.) They would obtain an indemnity if the Commons of Eng land approved of what had been done, or if they did not obtain that approbation, they should retire from their places. That lie considered tha constitutional course.— (Hear, hear. )—He had now endeavoured to do his duty. In doing so he might have said things unpleasant to in dividuals. But he collid not continue in his office without rectifying what appeared to him to be wrong ;....nor could he, in explaining those changes to the House, retrain from stating the reasons which led to thein.—(Hear, hear.) Fl o was aware of the difficulties with which he had to con. tend. He had given the Right Hon Baronet an advan tage. The estimate had not been prepared in the most plausible manner. It did not profess to be excessively clear and satisfactory. But he trusted that the House would bear with it for this year, and call upon him to ex plain each particular as he pl:aceeded. In thc, next ye n• the balance sheet should lie prepared in such a manner as to exhildt every- sum expended in the present year clearly accounted for. If he were to be dismissed from office to incrrow, lie would retire with the conviction that he had appliod an tfiectual remedy to.a real grievance.-.(Hear.) In conclusion, he called on the House to hear with tlie de fects of the present estimate, rind not to despair of the good effects which it was calculated to produce.—(Hear.) Mr. POULETT THOAISON said a doubt had been expressed by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, that the duties were performed by the Treasurer of the Navy. There was certainly some part of them'performed by an officer already in the establishment, for a small additional emolument. In the estimate before the Conmittec,,twohun dred pounds a-year was proposed for thiit okier. Hereto fore the Paymaster of the Nivihad performed duties which he (Mr. P. T.) contended ought to be discharged by the Treasurer. When the Right Hon. Baronet opposite was in that office lie did not complain that other duties pre vented him from attending to the public service there. On the contrary, he looked upon it, as it, had been considered for years, as a sinecure; and a great part of the duties were left to the Paymaster, in whom there was no respon ijoisy. .When ho (Mr. Thomson) was on the other side of the House, he contended that the office of Treasurer ought to be united to another. He had pressed that upon the late Administration; but they, with an anxious desire to preserve Parliamentary p itronage—( Hear and laughter) —they dismissed the Paymaster of the Navy, who was a most efficient officer, and they retained the Treasurership untouched.—(Hears hear. )—With regard to his own per formance of the business of the two offices which he had undertaken, he could only say that he gave his best atten tion and desire to ii ; and he•was satisfied that any indivi dual could adequately diwhazge the duties of both, 'so as to effec t a saving of 2,000/. a-year to the public.—(Hear.) 311'. FRANKLAND LEWIS would avoid entering Into the discussion of last year, and come at once to the compatibility of the office, now filled by the Right Hon. Gentleman who had last addressed the House. That Gentleman had accepted the office of Treasurer of the Navy, and with it another, which required a great part of his time to be employed in the actual performance of duties, and his entire thought and attention when be was absent from it. It must necessarily interfere with the dis charge of the important duties of Treasurer of the Navy He was sure that the sums of money disbursed on account of the Navy ought not to be at the disposal of any man, whose responsibility was not certain, who was not known to the House, and standing up in his place from time to time to account for the money with which he was en trusted. He would say, that should the House be unwise enough to entrust the administration of large sums of money through the hands of a person of inferior rank, great public inconvenience might be the cons.quence. Mr. HUME said, there was one subject to which he intreated the House would give their most serious atten tion ; he meant the exposé which had that night been given by the Right Hon. Baronet opposite—that by which he laid before the House the system of deception and mysti fication hitherto prevailing in the mode of making up the public accounts; and according to which, sums of money were applied to purposes which Parliament had not autho rised, and works which they had appointed to be done were not accomplished. It was a deception for which there could be no palliation or excuse, and the disclosure of it was an act for which the House ought to be extremely thankful to the Right Hon. Gentleinan. As an objection to the present e.titnates, it had been alleged that the wages of labourers bad been included in the scientific department- He would beg of the Hon. Members to cast their eyes over the estimates, to look to any. one of those departments —to the Naval College, the Observatory at the Cape, the expence of chronometers, the rewards for discoveries, the extra pay and allowances for his Majesty's ship Chanticleer, gone upon a voyage of discovery—let them look through every one of those, and they would find, that in no case had the wages of labourers been mixed up with the scientific expence; he, there fore, altogether denied that there was on that ground the slightest reason to find fault with the manner in which the estimates were made up. He admitted, indeed, that there was one error, or rather imperfection, in the Victu-• saline Department—the same thing was given in 28 and 29—that he acknowledged was a superfluity. Had it come in at another place, the estimate would have been complete. It wav, as he said, an imperfection, but the accounts were substantially correct ; neither did that de fect create any complexity in the accounts. 603,0001. was out of its place, but did not amount to any substantial error, and all the other items were correctly given under their respective heads; and the statement made upon it by the Right Hon. Baronet was such as ought to give perfect satisfaction, for the present at least; for he was one of thme who always looked forward to improvement, and he hoped that by next year a considerable improve ment would be made in the preparation of those accounts. But though he went that length, he could by no means ap prove of the substance of those estimates ; that was, he objected to their whole amount. Contenting himself, then, with that general remark, he should reserve himself uporr particular items till they came before the House in detail. They had before them a balance sheet of 5,300,0001. of the last year, and this year the item was 5,800,000/ , which made a difference of one shelf million between the one year and the other. New he need scarcely observe to the House, that that was a sum of great importance; and he con fessed it disappointed him not a little, to find the Right Hen. Baronet coming forward with a proposition to that amount, instead of coming forward with a proposal for reduction. This, however, calling for disapprobation, detracted nothing from the great and important service he had rendered to the public, in exposing the system of de ceit under which the public accounts were kept; and that Right Hon. Baronet would not do his duty, if he did not immediately institute such an inquiry as must put an end io such practices fur the future. Such inquiry, too, should be direced to discover where the practice originated, how it had proceeded, and who were the real authors of that most culpable deviation from the only course which the of ficers of the country ought to pursue. In all his experi ence lie had never known such a license taken as that of applying public money to purposes which Parliament never intended. During three successive years he had moved for and obtained the report of the Commissioners of dock- yards, and not one of : them afforded the slightest clew to the abuse now, for the first time, laid open to the obser vation and animadversion of the House. He was perfectly aware that occasional circumstances might arise, in which Government would feel themselves imperatively called upon to deviate from the strict rule which should form the gene ral guide of all Governments. But when circumstances arose justifying such a departure, Government should come dOwn to that House, acknowledge what they had done, explain and, if possible, vindicate their conduct. He must say, that after what had occurred, no more confidence could be placed in public men. At the present moment it was not in his power to determine very clearly, but by next Session he should be in a situation to ascertain how far the ac counts- rendered were satisfactory, and in accordance with the facts; let that, however, turn out as it might, . the practice which had given occasion for these remarks was one which ought to be swept away at once, and there was not a single individual concerned who ought not to be in capacited from ever again being engaged in the public ser vice ; and he had no hesitation in affirming, that if the Navy Board had any share in those transactions, that not one of them should ever again be trusted by the Govern- . went, What did be complain of? Nothing less than one of the grossest acts of misconduct that ever came to be recorded in the whole financial history of Great Britain. He had further to compiain of what had been done with resp ec t to the works at Portsmouth, of which there was no estimate, and of which no account had been ren dered. It was true that a departmeut night suppose that the materials of old works would prove sufficient is de key th e expenses of new ; and where there were shown good grounds for such a supposition, he did not much complain of Government proceeding upon ir, and it was one of those matters which could not be fully ascer tained till the work was complete. Government might, perhaps, in some cases, find themselves justified in pro ceeding without, in the first instance, coming to Parlia ment ; but the Administration ought not to lose a moment in bringing the matter under the consideration of Parlia ment. With, however, such a system as that which he x had b ee n d e scribing going on for years, there was no e - planation that could palliate it. As one installee among many, where the practice he reprobated was carried to no trifling extent, he would mention Woolwich, where 525,000/. was expended, though there was only the au o„ ex pending from y ear to year, witLotit any thority of Parliament for 182,0001., an d thus they bad been going inquiry. Sir JAMES GRAHAM w ee:understood t o s ay , th at i n the last twelve yeas's, 184 0001. w as expended beyond what Parliament granted. Mr. HUME—The system of deception, he sa id, h a d been going on for twelve years. In such a state of things, mall might the Ministers have refused him a Con-;ni-t; ; , of Inquiry, for they knew We that if ;riee put in his finger h arrived e be would not stop a ... at the bott om . —(A laugh.) All past Governments stood condemned by the disclosure made that night, and he doubted if there would be foun d amongst them to s t ee d u p and defdefendneen such practices, which, if they were for a moment tolerated hi that House, there would be an end of all responsibi lity. The Hon. Member then proceeded to defend the past which he took with respect to the sums granted by Parliament for the improvement of the harbour of Leith, and returning to the subject of the irregularity in the mode o f keeping the public accounts, observed `hat iia the inquiries of the House tipa c - , the sUbjej, they should go h ac k to deviation, otherwise they could pro duce ,m'sufficient check against the mal-appropriation of the public money. M uc h , however, as he had to condemn the ge neral amount of those estimeeee, he had stilt more to complain of the sours ea - Tended in the purchase of-stores, aga iest which he had alWeys raised his voice. Since the war, no less . a . 911111 dem 25,0004 was expended in the rettild ing and *Toter, of shi Ps , an d that he: theoglii, after the great imProYen:lenta had hien made in steam navi gation, and '4ts probahte effects in the event of a ware it was most unwise to expend such prodigious sums in bu ildi n g ships upon the old construction, whin; week) built and then laid by to re t, f or they ;ever 'could be manned. In four years„ fun , a= , l'adeed thousand pounds had been ex reeled in that way, and no one knew how it had gone ; aid upon the whole period to which he referred, there was a difference of 805,000/., of which r ‘ o zufficient account hod been ei!en, his really wanted words to do justice to the criminatity of the deviation which be had in so many f mns pressed Olson the attention of the lDouse. He w anted words to do justice to the. :lrolignation which he f e l t a t that total disreeraed of theie oaths which had been mani festeii in this matter. It was a gross Offence against the Appropriation Act, and against the votes of that House. They then saw before, them one of the remarkable charac teristics or one of the great Boarthi of the country,...Boards were the ruin of thi s c ountr y ; hut he trusted that wh a t had occurred "that night respecting one of them, would go a great way towards ending the system. The matter that was laid before them might' hereafter he subject for pro peedings in a Courtofl • previously brought under Law, being roug the notice of a Committee of that House to ascertain the facts. No doubt, when they were ascertained, the House might proceed b • censure pr otherwise, as they !'night think proper. If no other advantages were to be derived from the accession of the Right Hon. Baronet to rffice—advantages, however, which he expected would be tumorous and long continued—there would be this, that he had exposed the nefarious practices of which he hoped •he House would mark its signal displeasure.—(Cheers. ) The House were deeply indeb'ed to the Right Hon. Baronet for the_ candid, manly, and straightforward manntr in which he had exposed and unmasked the detestable system upon which the public accounts were kept in the depart ment in question. He concluded by saying that he had no .pecific.amendme n t to move; but he must declare, before he sat down, that nothing appeared to hint more absurd and unnecessary than the expen'e which this country was every year incurring for the purpose of creating a body of ships greater than France or any State in Europe. Sir BYAM MARTIN was of opinion that the sums should I e voted, and that it should be left to the Executive Government to apply them, as that was the only true way of making them effective to the service. Sir HENRY PARNELL complained that the gallant Officer's notions of expenditure were totally contrary to the principles upon which the House ought to vote away the finances of the country. The naval expenditure of France was voted so accurately in detail, that no person could receive any thing without pointing to the precise sum that had been voted for that purpose by the Cham ber. He thought that the grestest praise was due to Mr. Thomson, who had reduced the system of naval accounts to one of double entry. This country was going on un der a system of deception, so that when the House ap peared to be voting one thing, it was actually voting another. He had felt considerable disappointment at the amount of the naval estimates.—(Hear, hear.)—Consi dering what were the naval expenses of other countries, he thought those of England to be extravagant, and that the House was called upon to vote too large a sum. Sir GEORGE COCKBURN rose amidst much con fusion and cries of " B tr, bar," which rendered him for some time inaudible. The tall ant Officer maintained that it had always been the practice to consider that the gross sum voted was applicable to all purposes indiscriminately in detail, provided the total amount of the vote was not exceeded. Unless a discretion were allowed to officers on foreign stations, it would be exceedingly difficult to keep accounts. The accounts of the station of St. Helena, which had been alluded to in the course of the evening, were not of a nature to require the interference of that House. He thought the Right Hon. Baronet quite right in keeping up the effective force of the navy. Sir JAMES GRAHAM observed, that Ministers were placed in a difficult situation, being obliged to bring for ward heavy estimates at the same time that they entered upon office under strong pledges of economy. He was sa tisfied, however, that circumstances had justified his Ma jesty's Government in the course they were adopting, and he trusted that the majority which had the other night supported the army estimates would also sanction those now before the Committee, it being equally necessary to keep our naval and military establishments on an effective footing. Mr. HUNT thought it his duty to say a few words, when he found it proposed to take five millions and a half out of the pockets of the people on account of the navy alone. Such an immense expenditure could hardly hecre ated without a vast deal of neglect, or it might he worse. A large suns was annually voted for timber for the Royal navy, and he had been credibly informed that no contracts were entered into for the supply of that article—that there were no public biddings as with respect to other matters. He wished to know how the thing was managed ? and whether there were any contracts, public or private, and how frequently these occurred? The Honourable Gentleman proceeded to say he had heard at Portsmouth that the Honourable Captain Grey was appointed to the command of the .Acteon three months before the vessel was launched—it was also said that this was one of the last acts of the late Administration. He wished to know whether the statement was true ? He then went on to deprecate the increase that had taken place in the estimates, and observed that he might be thought culpable for not having taken the sense of the House when such extrava- ' gant sums were proposed to be voted away. His only reason for abstaining from taking such a course consisted in the plain fact, that Ministers had promised the country an effective Reform in the representation, and he felt un willing to embarrass them by opposition. It was upon this account that he feat tongue-tied upon the occasion— (Laughter)—and was restrained from speaking in such terms as they deserved of measures like the present. He sincerely hoped Ministers would bring forward a plan of efficient Reform, and if they did so, he told them they would have the country with them, and need not fear the threats of Members upon that side of the House. How ever, if his Majesty's Government thought they could satisfy the country without conceding vote by ballot, they were grieviously mistaken.—(Loud cries of " Oh, oh !") It might he " oh, oh," there, but in the country it would be " wo, wo," if this concession were refused. Mr. HUME wished for a better classification of the 32,000 men employed in the navy and marines, in ()refer that the, number of officers and the various grades might be easily distinguished, as in the army. He might as we I, perhaps, give notice of his intention to-morrow to ca I for a specification of suds details, When the proper time arrived he should move a reduction of 7,0001., pro posed to be allowed to Generals o f M at i nee , suc h places being sinecures. Ar. LEADER complaiAd of the injustice done to Ice. land in the , e estitnat, s. Sir J. GRAHAM said his Hon. Friend, the Momber for Middlesex, would find the information which he re quired in the specification of the pay of the navy. Hu trusted his Hon. Friend would not divide the House on the vote for Generals of Marines, when he considered how slow was the promotion, and how few the rewards in that Corps. Sir B. MARTIN said, that public competition (which existed with respect to all other articles supplied to the navy) was only prevented in the case of timber, by the im practicability of carrying the principle into effect. The Hon. and Gallant Member proceeded to mention the rea sons which prevented timber from being dealt with as other commodities, but they did not reach the gallery. The last supply of timber took place by private contrgcq :;bout three months ago ; there had been no contract for about two years preceding. Mr:ITITAIE observe .1 that the men and money bad never been voted together before. He did not at that moment iwend to object to the vote for 32,000 men,ubut when the resolution granting the money was proposed, he would take tl,e opportunity of cbjectiug to the item which he had m,-ntioned. Sir J, GRAHAM said he found, on examination, that his Hon. Friend's observation, with respect to the separa tion of the votes for numbers and pay, was correct, and in compliance with former practice he should fast move a resolution as to the number to be employed. The ques tion with respect to Generale.of Marines could come on when the money vote was proposed. Mr. 1 - 1y11.,M asked, wheth er Si r J ames C oc kb urn, who, it wag understood, had received a command in the marines, previously belonged to that coefs? Had not the gallant individual been attached to the army ? Sir J. GRAHAM said, it was the intention of Govern. innnt to break up the e4tahlishrnent of the Paymaster of Marines, and abolish the office altogether. The duties of Paymaster oiMariws had hen partly military and in vart civil. He inspected the corps and their clothing, this was a military duty ; with regard to the eiY/1 duties, one of which related to the contritAttQ Cove clots inn, (that would go to the VictnalliN .;'qftee), and anoth er being matter of accoup; would he referred to the Navy Offi,..e. It was proposed to in the the Treasurer of tb?. Navy, who was paid as Vice-President of the Board of Trade, Paymaster of the Marines, pro tv.;poY:e, but without any salary. Cer tainly Cockburn had never belonged to the marines, Lut inasmuch as he had faithfully discharged the duties of • Paym'aster of the Marime,ami as his office being abolishe ; he must have received superannuation allowance if some other dny kW not been provided, it was thought right to make Sit J. Cockburn (whose efficiency cm,441 not be doubted) Inspector-General of Marines, which capacity fie would discharge the military lanctions of Paymaster, his Majesty being talieaaeti to restor e hi m to his militart rank as ;MajorXeneral. By this arrangemprt a 'consi derable saving would be effected. In 7,i - ,..king it he had acted solely with reference to public service. Sir G. COCK I3I : I RN,I - git it to the Right Hon. Taronet to say wht l .:,? - ; iris. (Sir J. Cockburn) hail ever applied to Gaser - fiment on the subject of his. bother's appointment. Sir J. GRAHAM saif,l .wtainly not. Mr. lIU.NIF cil.served, that although be objected to the office, he list! no objection to the ra;va. in. Ile did not care any thing at all about tlei inari.—(Llughter.) If ti office were apcersal,y, some marine officer should hay, been rait'...l to it. If Sir J. Cockbutu seas one of tlo 32,000, he should move, that instead of 3 ; 2,000 men ti serve in his M aiesfy's rk , et, the nuniher• he reduced t, 31,999, i,neluding (not 10,000, but) 9,999 marines— (Laughter)-.-with a view to. mark his d',,vatisfaction at thi attempt to create a new °M e... Mr. lAurne having formall made his motion, Sir A. RANT (the Chairmm) asked whether the Hon. Member would divide the House upon it ? Mr. HUME replied " Certainly." The gallery was about to be cleared, when Lord HOTHAM rose, and slid the appointment io question appeared to him to convey an unjust and 111211 .ees. nary stigma upau the travince. it was on public groundr he objected to the measure. The mar:ne. were :t ps which could not be too highly esteemed. Lord ALTHORP said that the appaintmcnt haf Nen anide With a view to economy, in order to save the su perannuation. It was not, in fact, a new appoint nt nt, but a substitution of one office for another. If the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) chose to have the superannuation,— though he (Lord AlthOrp) should be surpri:. d at it, —and the House chose it, they must submit. Mr. HUME said he would agree to the superannuation till the gallant officer was employed, in order to remove what was considered as a stigma upon the corks. Mr. K. DOUGLAS objected to thetransnintrtion which was proposed by th e G overnmen t. _ _ Colonel DAVIES was of opinion that the proposed alteration ‘could not be economical. Sir JAMES GRAHAM briefly defended the alteration proposed by the Government. There were two officers between whom a choice was to be made • one of them was 71 or 75 years of age, and he though it much better to superannuate the old man than the young one. He denied that any stigma was cast upon the marines by the pto veeding which Government had proposed. After a few observations from Sir George Cockburn, Lord Hotham, Colonel Sibthorpe, and Mr. H. G.,rdon, the gallery was cleared for a division. No division, however, we understand, took place, and the proposition was agreed to, Mr. !lints giving notice that he would at a future stage of the business move for the reduction of 1,0001., which he understo•id was the sum that the proposed alteration would cost the country. The House resumed.—Report on Monday. The 1 2,000,0001. Exchzqurr Bills Bill was read a third: time and passed. . Mr. BLOUNT obtained leave to bring in a Bill to re lieve Roman Catholics from the double assessment oC I intl-tax. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, aria the House adjourned at Half-past One o'clock. STIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS- There are various rumours in rirettlation, stgd (minions formed, as to the stability -of Ministers.- It is difficult to touch upon a subject, whilst new rests are starting up every hour which -essentiallY alter - its, aspect; but we see no reason why the Ministry, as: a Ministry, should not stand. There is not ling bust; the Reform Bill which need overthrow it : and wris t know that its overthrow, if it were for no other catSA. than that it would suspend and put to hazard Lord! Brougham'shf'e Theseus, u great measure of Chancey Relbtr,, would rt infinite national calamity. But dubs-hip, o at Athens, was changed pi ece by piege, made wholly new,and still the identity o f t h e vessel t rldles timbers bee ans' were remarked to b e unsoun d, till ftas was preserved : so a partial change might be began by the removal of some members from the present Admi— nistration, and the whole, as a ‘vhole, would gather! strength. Lord Grey knows—he must know—whae the public opinion is with respect to the number ral: ' his connections associated with hint in place, and he ought to respect that opittion, or it will be too strorg' for him. Ills Lordship cannot be so sordid as to, wish to concencrate a ma‘s of public wealth in h' es t own famly ; but what might have been inadv tence at first, will assume a different characttr if p , r ,, t e n o a n country redeeming Le l- d Acplitahl rt i t .P e qualities titan- 'tt, c'i h r a l y g, l oomo t p h t: l the severed in after it is exposed, and the disgust v ihith it occasions stated. These is one person, in p nri cular, utthwourably known in the city for lA, con. flexion with the celebrated Greek Loan. per son should have shrunk front public life rettogether; in r"zmoval but particularly he, should not have been pl ace d parts are a situation connected with the revenuertilsehoalfiath:e.D of the taxes on coals and candles, th e l o ta: them: gret it should not have been tn',, re penetration or sagacity. Beyond palatab'e. But it will be observed that ;:, obscurity, Crotchett and obvious and simple ; the) , ' sprina and not from the head. B ni i s ll try w , o a u n ld d gainedtheseaniol particular penetration Poulett Thomson. tfur people are to emigrate, r l w l e h r o e m t s h o e r s t e w c o h t a d i d ,ge e s m m ig a i dae t e, t f h ro e m u t and tobacco to immigrate : we would Poulett some better man immigrate into his place. Still, o e rn i t li be the touchstone of the Ministry. Had there been no Reform Bill in agitation, the changes pro posed might save the Ministry, Even with the changes, were there time to bring them about, the Reform Bill may ovorthrow it. We have heard that the great mass of opposition mean now to meet Lord John Russell's Bill by some Reform plan of a less extensive kind,—some minor or par tial Reform. If so, they can hardly have the Duke of Wellington with them. His Grace is not very well able to make himself intelligible, when he at tempts to manage an argument, or to bind togetht r a train of resiaoning; but nothing can be clearer or more decisive than his declaration that he was an enemy to all Reform: he cannot be mistaken in a simple assertion. We contemplate with fear the future state of the country if the people's just ex. pectation of a Reform in Parliament be disappoin ted. We fear we shall have to describe something more than the dissolution of a Ministry.—Times. The States which have succeeded in revolutionis ing themselves in Italy contain a population of nearly two millions. But, extending as they , do, one side to the very frontiers of the Austria!) pos sessions, they cut off the rest of Italy from Aus trian interfeacnee ; and thus a free course is left to the people of the - various States to give effect to their wishes. It is said in some of the afar s journals that Austria has announced a de. termination to put down the revolution in Italy. If there be any foundation for such a report, we must view it as the signal for war. It may be very true that a rigid adherence to the principle of non intervention till the whole of the rest of Italy should be revolutionised, might render the posses sion of Lombardy exceedingly precarious. But, because the people of Lombardy are impatient of the Austrian yoke, ought the rest of Italy to be condemned for ever to languish under Governments they detest P However, be this as it may, the principle of non-intervention having been made the order of the day, the Austrians, in such a case, would be, of course, the aggressors in an European warfare. There is one statesman, at all events, who, however much he might approve of the invasion of Naples by Austria, would now condemn an invasion by the same power of the neighbouring States—we mean Sir Robert Peel. On Friday week, before the Italian revolution was heard of, mid when ap prehensions were entertained of French ambition (but that circutuskance would, of course, have no influence on Sir Robert's opinion), he predicted ruin and discomfiture to those States which should be the aggressors in an European war. He said— " Ile had such confidence in the progress of know ledge—such, confidence in the force of justice throughout the world, that he was persuaded that whatever country provoked an unjust war against the wishes of Europe, bringing on it that toast terrible of all inflictions the human race could suffaa, war without a just cause : he had such confiderwa'in the force of public opinion, and the sense of justae, that let the financial resources of that country be what they might—let her military means 1E! ever so great— the might and valour of her soldiers ever so noble, he was sure that she must ultimately fall a aietiinao the force of public opinion, which h e was sure would hell all internal dissension., and rallying the whole of Europe around one object, vindicate the great cause of peace and jnstice,— (Cheers.) He said this with perfect confidence. If France, when she vindicated her own ri g ht s when she revolted against the unjust proceedings of her late Monarch ; if France had then been assailed by the Powers of Europe in a confederance to prevent France front choosing her own Government, he was confident that the Powers of Eurare would have been unable to eontroul her actioos, au l he was confident that their unjust cause must ultimately have failed • (Cheers) —and that she would successfully have vindi cated her right to choos e her Government, against the „ ra ba le d Iloweas of Europe,--(Hear, hear.) Their effiars would have failed aga'est France, and would Lave recoiled against thamselves in the madness of sue!, a struggle.—(Cheers.) But he was equally confident, that if unjust atni4tion should tempt France by force to en large th e limits of her empire—.if she should be urged tat by the recollection of taw victories of .Noilaleon—if a mili tary facti on should prevail over th e good sense of the country,. he was as confident, than, that Europe, i,tl ttd tt. jest cause, would resist France successfully, that a. different result would teach France. that it was nut for her interest to provoke war.—(Hear, bear.") Now, if it would be unjust in the Powe.-i of Europe to preYent France from chonsing her o ~n C ovum-