The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

N • , qv . ' ' ii intiCluce' of the spece in which it was necessarily in , b a it o 1 . 'hole. He , may say surprisiugly complet(, it was stated (un nnt graduilly lt , i stintlerstanil the tenor of his observaoions) that ins w hich was to be specifically included in the cling ., , ane hi se corru i P i ' ta t , was proposed ; and th it, although the Bill fr:end l ) . • . 0 ; tliat th lnt rodneed ', vas appli ca bl e solely to England, yet list proPo" tl f . e Prieeiple was to he arvied, to the same extent sfer " 1 w I Q th e . ifother tvo Mrs he tr ail the a, r, same inanntr astac . , e ° ift the House. Considering then that the ,„ I a,anland is now under our review, and that i o r n were o'cr; %jot:tit looked nas the person who, from his official • wishe d t) l; a'sla 'n ' called on to draw the Bill which ex• • it: 1 1 t t ') .i • a 7' a e fe n . 'eaure of Reform to that tnuotry..l i feel 1)0100(1 ,, ; v . ; wotals with respect ,to ltd princlio e and . l -he m re so as I think tle-lt the neve-say for 1 -" t ile.""'P l e t ''"er t ' d ' h ""ge in the represent. ion of Scotland has not er and " le / ! we lt on proportion to its importance. It is true l un . s o t t ' l io ‘; (of sZ tl tl 'at two Noble Lords did just introduce the n ome ' that • ( l ir' e r',,a it! t i" rl the course of the debate, hot lam not I not rt t ae t rorl,, n ,: a t beyond a mere statement of the efficaey of the a d o pted uti t i clih e t of the present system, and au assertion of die si the wer r e the that p , f. 4 and undeniahle lot of the general prosperity of o duced allfrail Mo t o the empire, other observation has Litho L . r 4p e niol• Meitil . t ) res iect to the state of the 4 , t „ tic , it r a 1”.. _ is those a " hops Itit todul of Scotland. And tots lea s tac (evt nif 1 It arose f er ; o 4 tqp, 63 to confin e myself to Scotland, which Ido not), -broad '1 1 ; of of "e of the great topics which I perceive in the the cotl io he dis,eussion has been most generally presented , the dy rect., i t he as,,, e in !lave taken part in it, to the attehtion of the end aFla' d 1 ,40 thi t deb I Say' on e of the great topics, for, as I take it, istify the P'i o gy ra mtr at c e has latterly turvisil on a comparatively small bit etlq .t ht it all those which were originally put forward, so great ' ll atatfrceil.t proportion of those dwelt on in the earlier at two co r et b t e i "l , o, eint t '' , l :lg now finally disposed of in the judg,inent of le, and lb', den th Nlendirrs of !pith sides of the House. I feeble co, h e Ni t! , t°Pics on both sidts that have been most fre t trent , g o o , gra 41 toded to and ct pressed on nor atten r toe e n f I mo. .t ) railsfr r 'liog g " n ven . sides of the House, are, first the undoubted • ; riv d I! 0 ,0 Pos ant ' t Y of th e people of both sides of the island at the isfied that itona e 4 re s a t int f ';'rnent, prosperity which the argument of any e ff tlitvt i9 o f ( the present motion goes to impeach. Seetitioly, e-'ntitnbor* o ' e r , th e ' °f any showing of any direct evil in the situation rid n et die 'thi s }, P."Ple, or of any injury to their national int• rests, c for the doe „a 'toi l . t en he directly' traced to the state of the representa then, coul d ° I li! of the want of any specification of the her phices.llo. ray to ranch's nhich the changes now proposed are , ae Itticolifer on us.- (Hear.) If I were disposed to s id er ed O le t tai g h t . '""tory rather than attempt to . be argumentative, niu' ot °l l 'aau I , P ," l 'aps add to these the grievances %e hich an ; 1 ;', " I , c o and Learned Member eharacteri•ed so pl tyfully e ' oo ts eo grater fdacifullv as a corporation robbery, and that other 1 8 t e itM CI : e 1 11 , 4 0/I,t: ln i tnto . ro serioua charge put forward by a T n ni ll i, : i i7 t . , wasp ll „` a tendency to promote a revolution. s all ri1e ti ",,,,,41 on the insinuations, that the ultimate conse ie la " orl' t he itiotor,e°, these changes must he to remove the Crown rc-s frit id till it " ut l inow of the Sovereign, and that Monarchy' and lie the " .I/ , 'l 4l4. ' ll th and • • • will he sneedily rooted out rd at u- this t 3 institutions • o Pe de' 4 1 enu ntrv• I might, too, enumerate among these ;e in , ' h for )eaten .pr -n, that no reason has been s oanthesee repea ec e a ta , n 'Teo° aOf "'et' changes-that the people themselves do oar es tla t , and have not really called four them ; and r a: l s:fi letant ly, ot 1,41 although they are now exceedingly clamorous, ept'oanned l 'aas i '"i : ti ng on the fulfilment of their wishes with me e 1 % force in the event of a refusal, still that all ont 1, 41 le.•orottr anti all these menaces were originally raised, Imee re el'' , d al Ple k ,; i 4v c 'teen sedulously fostered, by those who are now ' in , g reel e is x re i n ' i t i a e tr e rtr it ' , l O rig ti '''in as a justification of that measure which et , Ilear:ehendeavouring to prevail on this House to adopt._ not sole lt or i ' la ' " 1. .)-I may be permitted to a'.1.1 finally, to all • hi' sit ' 4 4,, 'at has been put forth confidently both in and out stating Or ty r S d I at notwithstanding these manceuvres the present such, dier,ll s.,`"' of r e r • is - I , 'al were i" , _ P csentaton at the bottom extremely popular l }fiat .itt, hose opinions can be considered itnpertanr, anr eto forgo he in wait', "gt country prospered eminently, and attained the i T i : mem oir ,stla a rank among nations with that representation, it sharer 0 0 " rash and unwise to change what we pos , essed no .. e sfi , 'at Whi c i , known, may h e less bene tneasure ". o t i It as less , eds i tt , gat e t h e e n t ti l loi l' t , . o ' l 4 ta tz ('rear', hear. )---Now, applying myself to the latter s the arguments of the opponents of this measure, I oi; i t? t a'sk what is the inference to be reall' drawn from non - hig'.. resig le , e li g l't,r,:;: n uking hack through the last two or ) three hundred aao a rk Is ti , a are told that under our pre cot system we have ight Of ve t 0 , It is ttl i ncreasing in glory- and in prosperity. Undoubtedly rent . the days of the Tudors and the Stuarts we d, too, e e° Pros Perous. Even then our wealth and splendour and districts, f t (1,,r • a rt ° f Pit a ,b et of cultivation began to distinguish us from the ° '"e other°'and; and I would add, too, that compared with )nun a ,: t ro - 1:0, itriegott Sty ,einpires of Europe, we had even then made a over to tie' a re ltb at ""siderahle progress in the attainment of domestic Ithe"couotithe4 htss Y ,..i .--(ll ear.)-And it we had thus easily gained proper i f o ' . 4 great extent of politic of liberty, and 1 4tl a assails and opulence, might it not have ate the rtt I' argument against the prudence of those eleg gich hotiiilived under the Tudors and the Stuarts, that they ate so lo the 0 1 'ha, h ave rested satisfied with the liberty anti the cfacte ta t they already possessed, and that they ought to reincOis io asstk ve struggled for more, because they endangered e asure. it Y orLthat which they had already achieved?- lidlot t n ti t r l o i ‘ gre e io , : he a„ lt 'na ,, ) That ai nst in truth, is the argument now put for it 50 5 0 1 4 ". --(Hear.) It is a fact, that in order to ' l t o'ae , ot' v era' $r at measure- of public and national pro fit'a,4 a very little decree of political frot•doin is found a , e ' d %a a o $ 11 f0 10 e : ( t ‘, 4 i N tt f, ) . o c:lea . r.) Every despot . who, either froirr s a . n r e e s s tageooe'Y Oa° v. ribver, own interests, or from indifference or ea i nthad a ot 4 'a pt 'ay allow a limited degree of political fi sedum Ile c ould , fie prig pf"' these encouragemi nt to industry and en etl fur the 'lt r ]ruin that arises manufactures and commerce. Id mak e °P r' I° , a 4) a-, of t• ' I 'M is the growth of ea e, wealth, and Under n b e 00,110 : t at 1 , 10 7 , he fruit of the tree is liberty.-( Hear.) Under ' t " e a scr eePi ll ' o f ;:lts rato protection which even a tyrant may, for the fore' eft l 441 ° , h 's interest, give the honey-bees, they obtain r°rDpei-oingittehr t he the language of the son of Sirach, who seems, atio t t gra , ' ~ 44 41 4 am- I (7w+, to have been a commentator on the l ae le or : 1 , 1 t _ ‘ 1 the English Constitution-(A laugh)-they "'N th ° tlandieraft ; lout when their industry has given 4itrityrie,rti!le,y demantl liberty, which is the daughter, and " in ' qauired o st t,ti a t he li t it t i .re tl l , 4 ll tt arl u p t u 4 b 7. , of prom_perity._ ( H . ear. ) , Thus t rose the greate s t ,ly tics-tims rose the free German own lat ° o st t ‘ , 4 " the cities of Flanders-thus rose the seeds of arid t t ime t ga ati o t ow tolagi•' n ? 4 l4t e d 48 and guilds, which, under the portal. of ae sir aoc apiot t i . $ y aa t , h w 'ealth, obtained that municipal and civil free tio° ° re df c " f °arned the groundwork of our present liber s.tua a bo 4 1t re qu i red l • . • . ifs p i , ktll al l ,ato tale consideration to understand that of lie so ) p , 1,4 gives us ttstitriony-that as the acco oa tae clg ) ra j , toe ° ; 0 0 , , , 4 !t et i oh e f wealth leads to the desire of freedom for its .Opther o , n_ e t ' os eli or l th'e4ihth, and cup •rnent Po the multiplication of that , tI7 its whi clue's through 1 to ref 3l , a ° egg, tr,,,, hi el 4 :l een et , possess it-the very distress, in truth, -fli PaoY the possession of capital and of the i / n o 3 ,i n ch a ns ci t , f d e tt l 4 . l o) rag it, tlernantled greater extensions of he na ture .00. 4 e o te guh o Increase of the number of those to whom fit wefel'il:i'a' lag s to a t e S fa rt of public affairs are entrusted, and who not glee ?et a ‘ afevit, .""rIJI acquainted with the peculiar . wants and aaes f a( all the departments into which society is then '" 1 0 0 ottia .(H ear.) It must then follow, I think, as an ‘O O ''"eSSit Ad been 0 °di 4 44 as nati‘s 3- for governing safely and . wisely, that as nd f i roill e be a7 p ra a,, h ,enali za a'n" continu e to make progressions in 'wealth of i Jett a , ' "en, the political institutions to which they are „rsc non 2l ' t° °111 ;°' 111 r 4 sl. l4 '''aos • r'ih t be adapted to the change of circumstances, f ie; 4 , 3 their interest demand the attention of men a sac ( ' a c', \‘• 1 1 of t rme of accommodating themselves to the busi of ta fetP re 4 , ' State and the increasing di ffi culties of society. less ` v „ e i . re J ;d; 11:1,: t a . tia - a e t utdi ngl)a has been the progress of the political be I ' l- 0 0 ,t ) of 'did, to °C England ? We were prosperous, anti gee a " i , l , l ffec te3 l l , 6 l at f amous in the times of the Star Chamber fa tl . (411 111t,, -e s"-”f purveyors anti of ship money-our why tli o e tio r oi c L i! distinguished throughout the 57111 the I tha t , o at sta,,td,a, intelligence-works of a character he ',reiro' e Lia rl o pe e v j h t ,; ‘, 44 ( 1 in the history of man, were composed, and age pit'hiss er as as as proud a natue and her character and t l u en respected, as in the ' proudest periodsofher co al° , s oo ~, • I 3 e h „ e el the ' ,h e t it bPtopi t !hat was the consequence of this ? Just as padie ,„ o _ j ot . nit .0441 e ntinued to increase in wealth and int&ligencs " w as a i r; ogli o s" e e l t_La t ,ilinel?pe.nsible to her happiness and her prospe awate.hsl I)iit;risa, sail oasis of her political institutions should be ht io i ' 1 that room should he provided for the multi ar ta e re 'or • r 'n of freetiotn.-(Hear, hear.)-Is it true I co - ,„, 1 11, ls it „, 1 1 oa vo out., that the events of the last twenty-five hilt o f t o ot Ir' of iittol% altriietated in this country a mass of political in statta iO O or 0 %, or . capacity ainona the people who form these Pula. trot larg e l i d i understanding the hearing and tendency boot I t oo lo ce , • l), , h rt i t lit hia4o•lirrie,liiistory, a n d i f il l ata" if . t , in nt with which they hid no compari coatelose set . at naught . all their pre i° '"a o t e 44 of pr g e alid experience? All knew that the greater ,e c° ° o 4 o ,ol l 'te, th e e n ,Perty commenced under the concessions he fh b's 0000 1 tt h at_ rti e rich, Rotor s to their serfs, and that as their serfs state,,,, it k 05 5 ,,,,, 11 ) °1 s 1 , , a, or r a0 . , 1 free, they either extorted rights from the to 0 "' - a ae l e j ashes{ charters anti privileges in towns from iron er e r ' `.. o o° for I t s r '' who, cunningly for his own day, hut un- A eSP er. 0' 4e t th 'UCCe,I e 1 4t j °i 81 granted these privileges to corm 'lb t „a t o pe ,o 4 ,,aaor po , orrice of his rebellious Nobles. Thus rose d fl' tra 4 ally, l. r n ata then the Burghs, and folowing theta il ary n 't 8u I • • • - b e °ll° og' ) en' e Yo all the liberties and immunities in faocre°3l,ee'lt pe o a f t th l ts ) . • lo A r And what is the conaequetwe? Why ;co t ae h a « t ke at , th i s nent the great mass of the popula the‘ool ,tm o , ro lt 4 4"Uiltry Possess a quantity of t eta ' e , Nate, e 'amlilog, and an extent of information, tlghe t i t c, 'l wi t h ' o l hein 10 trample under foot the sophis ottai t Ae 'ltch Princes • r iot. - r aa 4 0. t weredeluded ! some o at . a ar ,'ties ono o make a matter of ridicule of the j tat it lee r puisi% iperstitions which were then delivered 00% 0 0 ler , , 4. it . ,), 1 et, rt e t a ; But, then, it is said that we should thie, -to th e to o,,,,.rastitf.. be c a use we now enjoy such a highs state • t aat i, ' 0 „, oaara.'ea, ;hut who is to be the judge of the standard aber g ' w hie sa tal, 'a t a• l 'atr te , lt u t • I know of no limits to the progress of sore j ke t ,''Reat "Jr to th e • . . • jo s o. continually increasing desires of deo av e the absence of reason in the argu pilig a .10' ; of a t , I I ' ll 4 the cravings of their desires are to be sup (jag c atre ela t h e ( la m ) „ a do 44 that Now what is really the fact here ? for us, we are, in this case, to determine wore Lets than arguments.—(near.) I shall state the case f tidy, for I am arguing tlu., general principle. Let us sup pose that there is no other boon demanded from us, at the present moment, than that we sloarld admit to a share of the pririlees of the represent ition a lirge proportion of the wealthy, the intelligent, and the middle classes of the country ; those who are at Leeds and Manchester, and in a large portion of the metropolis itself, wholly excluded from the right of returning Members to Parliament. Is it true, then, I ask, that thos, persons are discontented— (Hear, and no,)—dissatisfied—'Hear, and no, no)—and soured, from being placed render an exclusion—(No) — and from being depi•ivitml of a right Avhicli they see exer cised elsewhere, ity otbe:rs placed ins much I - nimbler con dition of society Z. a sav nn; ask, what are,we to say to the innumerable petitions on the. table of the House ? Petitions corning by hundreds and thousands, not from the middle or the lower classes, but from the bankers, the merchants, and the lawyers, and men moving in the most elevated circles in time country.—(Hear.)— If this be the caso, and if these petitions be as numerous as I understand they are, how is it we hive not one to the contrary ? how is it we have !sad no petition denying the necessity or propriety of Reform? Hon. Members have ar:ued this question as if it was an invasion of pa tent right. But the attempt to invade them has not been made in a corner. The newspapers have not bcten silent on the subject, for, singular as may be the coincidence, they are unanimously in favour of what some lion. Mem bers call the minority; and yet, how happens it, that with all this alleged difference of opinion on the subject of Reform—with all the hostility and iniFfierence to it in the country—no external document had )et appeared on the table of that House to give evidence of the existence of these feelings, with the exception of that petition from a city (Bristol), which contained an argument on the sub ject that might he expressed somewhat in time language of the dissenting Barons of old, that they were non-ling the laws of England should be changed.—(hear, hear, and a laugh.)-.--I think, while lam on the subject of petitions, that I may venture to say a few words respecting the country with which I ant more immediately con nected. Scotland has sent up a number of petitions, and I know from the best authority that a great part, and, I believe, the whole of them were got up without the knowledge of those who presented them, and that they came with the greatest surprise on many of those who had no idea that any such me 'sole was contemplated. The Town Councils of all the most considerable burgles have petitioned ; and in Glasgow—a plata! where I was educated, of which I know so much, and with which I have been so intimately connected, that there is scarcely a person of any note of whom I do not know something—l can safely s:ty, that four-fifths of all those have signed the petition, and that of the 180 prin cipal names who signed the requisition, at least one-half were doubtful of the safety or propriety of Reform some years ago, and are now converted from their former opi nions. —(Hear.)—ln addition to these I may name the ' Town Council of Perth, of Aberdeen, and of Dundee.— (Hear, hear, and a laugh.)—An Hon. Member opposite smiles at the name of Dundee, but he should know that while my election is under appeal, public affairs are ma naged by a Commission ; and that they have, in conjunc tion with a great majority of the Guild, signed the peti tion. Having said thus much, I row apply myself to the measure before the House, which divides itself into two parts with respect to the franchise. In the one case the franchise is taken away from a considerable body, who at present po sess it; and in the other, it is given to a great number who at present have it not. Now, as to those who have no representatives, can it be said that any bad eff.cts would arise from giving representatives to Manchester, Leeds, and Sheffield ; or that any injury wool I be inflicted on property, or any pernicious con sequences flow to the other classes of society, if the large counties, each of which might be divided into sections equal tm some of those of the ordin try size, were permitted to rem: n Members for each section ? How, he would ask, could this demoralise the people or injure the power of time Throne and the Aristocracy ? But when it was con tended—and the lion. Member for Callington (Mr. Baring) put the point with considerable ability that the franchise was merely the consequence of sonic providential kind of luck in those towns which had formerly emerged from in significance, that it was necessary now to continue the franchise to those towns, although they bad fallen into a state of decay, because it produced a happy commingling of the middle classes with the people of property and the Aristocracy, and that if the system was changed, the people of property and the Aristocracy would be wholly excluded from their share in the representation. Nov I am bound to say that the union of interests is defeated by the means which are taken to preserve it ; but I ask how the system answers at present, and how it is possible to agree with the arguments founded on those high strained hypothetical grounds, which interest has dragged in to favour its views, but which it is utterly impossible to feel thoroughly borne out by the facts ? I know what may be said to a willing audience ; but, suppose the Hon. Member for Callington was compelled to harangue some ten thousand of the people of one of the great towns on this subject, or suppose he was sent to speak it to the mer chants on the Exchange of Manchester, what degree of favour would he receive from his hearers? What did the Press say on this subject? Why it is unanimous in favour of the opinion, that it is from the seats thus held by the nominees of the Aristocracy, that the connection between the higher and lower clasi,es is endangered, and that if they were permitted to exist, it must ultimately he destroyed. This is the universal opinion of the country, al though a very different one prevails on the subject here; but I know the odd tricks that interests will sometimes play, and how it can be brought to say, and potentially to be lieve, that which others consider either impossible or ab• surd. Bat bow did the Member for Calliogton proceed with this argument ? He contended that it was a good thing to continue the connection of the Peers with that House, lest they should be driven to exercise their naked influence to a dangerous extent in the affair s of the country. Now, it happened that the Lords, fortunately for them selves, had in England no voice or power except heredi tary possessors of property. Their political influence was of the most limited kind, except they were able to exer• rise it by the management of a part of the Members of the House of Common'. In every other point of view they are merely rich proprietors, possessing no higher political advantages than other men of property, and, therefore, the idea of the danger to he apprehended from a disunion of interests wholly fails when it is subjected to exami nation.—(Hear, bear, hear.) But then, it is said that the Aristocracy of wealth generally, is to have its con nection with the House of Commons supported, and that it is right it should be so. But then I should like to know what is the meaning of this argument with re spect to the aristocracy of wealth, when it is not neces sary to have wealth at all to interfere in the affairs of that House?—and it frequently happens that a man takes from the owner of borough influence his right for a certain sum, and afterwards, trailing perhaps on very little capital, he deals with it as so much stock, and disposes of it among adventurers, who are frequently ruined by their specula tion. Now, I am apt to think that whatever is done in this country should be done openly and regulated openly, and that if it was necessary that Peers should have boroughs, all the world might know it. Every Peer, for instance, might have two Members if he possessed 10,0001. a year, and every Commoner of 20,0001. might possess the same number, and thus by a very easy arrange ment, which all would understand, the aristocracy of wealth might be adequately represented, and the arrange ments might be rendered much more useful than the ail perfect system of molern days. I would allow property a large and liberal influence in elections ; but I am pre pared to contend that the present system, so fir from giving that influence, produces much less than it will possess if this measure is carried into - `full effect.—( Hear, hear. )—The Hon. Member for Calling ion, indeed, admitted this himself, when, in alluding to the Parliamentary influence of the Bedford family, he said, in spite of the disfranchisement, " I'll wager von half a crown that the Duke of Bedford's interest in Ta ei.ooek will be quite as great as it was before." Under a better and more liberal system, a liberal, kind, and hos , p l iable landlord must always exercise a vast influence over his immediate neighbourhood, and command the re spect and affection of his friends, and connections, and de iemlents• but under the present astern he is compelled, for the purpose of buying that which he means afterwards to sell, to have recourse to a degrading and contaminating species of bribery, intimidation, and corruption, disho nourable to himself, and deeply injurious to all who are brought within its influence. But it has been said that the Blitish Constituti o n consists of Kin g , Lords, and Com. mons, duly balanced in power ; and that the propos e d measure will give en improper preponderance to the demo cracy. How, I am at a loss to conjecture. Au Hun. Gentleman his observed, that if we adopt the Bill we shall throw the whole coninsand of the Legislature into the hands of the lower class s of tradesmen. Now it must be recollected that the qualification of voters in towns, after the present voters have died out, is, that they are to be householders of 101. a year rent. This new qualifi cation, therefore, is in a five-fold ratio greater than that which has long existed with reference to the voters in counties. How, then, can it be justly said that a preponderance is to lie given to the loner or• ders by this measure?—(Hear.) And, besides, the oppo nents of the Bill argue as if the qualification for voters in towns was never to be above ten pounds; forgetting that that is td he the lotest quelification. Then tee the addition that is to be male to the tountfs Members._ Looking at all these circionstanees, I sin at a loss to can ceive why any Hon. Member, in the so , it of Prophecy, or in the spirit of conjecture, sleuth! declare that by what we now propose to do, we are about to give to the House of Commons a much more democratised character then that which it at present poss'es's.—(Hear, hear.) Sir, it has alw tys appeared to me to he a great mistake to imagine that the pos e-sion of very large property is likely to produce in the proprietor a more fervent spirit of loyalty, or a more ardent aqichment to the ancient insti tutions of the country, than that by which his fellow •sub jects are distinguished. The sanctity of property is ceta• dished the iatta But will you sly that the poor man, who Is ours for ail that lie is lees likely to preserve that sanctity less likely to obey the law by which th at sanctity is protected, than the rich man who spends his days in idleness and ennui 1 It has always appeared to me that the man who acquires by his own exertions just enough to seeure to himself a comforabl e exivence—the man, for instance, who lives on his free hold of terry shillings a year, is the men who is most likely to IT the true guardian of property, and to rally round the standard of its defenders.—(Hear.) Just lifted above the gulf of poverty, such a man feels the real value of that asylum which his own hands have constructed.— Proud of the comforts which he has obtained, he looks down, but with a feeling of affectionate consideration, on those who arc struggling to aequire a similar station Such is the person whom a wise and provident Legislature would wish to attach, and on whom they may place the firmest reliance to aid them in resisting those, if any such there be, who are disposed to set the laws at defiance, and to declare war against property.—(Heir, hear.) No thinking man can for a moment believe that less layalty to the King, that less due deference to the Aristocracy', that less pride in the yaleable inst tutions f the country, will be felt by the man who has toiled hardly to gain the little eminence on which he is placed, than by tie(' man who, although in the highest rank, is probably in possession of Isss real cajoyment.—(Hear, hear.) I have, therefore, no distrust, Sir, of men who ry ten pmnufs a year fur their house rent. If even the proposed proceeding were rev. red—if, instead ot incressine the quelifiration to ten pounds, it had originally stood at a huuareil pounds, and we had reduced it to ten—l should have thought it a per fectly sea s course. The dismal forebodings of some of the opponents of the measure, who, anticipating annual Par liements and eniversal suffrage, look forward to the de struction of the Royal and aristocratical branches of the State—to an indiscriminate aged: on property—and to a condition of things very much resembling savat'.' life—np pear to me to result from confounding consideratiens which are totally distinct. There tire two separate classes of persons in this kingdom who are discontented with the pres s nt s t a t e o f th e rep s e sen tati oa . Th e fi rs t ' consists of a large number of loyal, industrious, and wealthy individuals who are not in the enjoyment of the elective franchise. It is very natural that these individuals should be dissatisfied. Even the Hon. Member for Cal lington has admitted that he has frequently on questions of a commercial or manufacturing character, regre.ted the absence from the House vf the direct represent itives of such individuals, from whom much valuable information might be expected. That such individuals when they find themselves, although posse,scd not only of ten, but of a hundred, or ten thousand a year, without the privilege enjoyed elsewhere by potwallopers should b e di ssa ti s fi e d, is nut surprising. Is it in human eature that they should be satisfied ?—(Hear.) Nor is such dissatisfaction um ea sonsble. And to what can it lead, but to violent, and exasperated, and uncharitable feelings towards the Legis lature which withholds from such individuals what they justly conceive to be their right ? And is not this a great public evil?—(Hear.) The second class of discontented persona c .nsi•ts Of the great mass of the people. And here, Sir, I ant perfectly ready to admit—l will not dis semble the fact—that attempts are comtintly making to mis!ead the people by infamous publications, and by other means of endeavouring to seduce them into the destruction of property—the corner-stone of the social edi ficte—(Hear, heir, hear.) There are, no doubt, persons in this country who are opposed to all law, who despise all authority, whrne only object is to evade the one, and to destroy the other. But will anybody tell me that such persons form the great body of the petitioners to this House fir Parliamentary Reform ?—(Hear, hear.)—They do not came for forty-shilling freeholds, or for any other qualifications. They care not fOr King, or Lords, or Come mons. Their maxim is " every man for himself, and God, or some other being, for us all."—(A laugh.)— The danger is, however, in letting things remain in such a state, that the persons to whom I have been alluding shall have the means of influencing those who ate only seeking their rights, and of betraying them into the corn mission of crime. —(Hear, hear, Lear.)—From the first hour at which I paid attention to the subject this is the view which I have taken of it. I have always wished to separate those who are discontented with a cause from those who would be discontented without any cause. I --- - wish to withdraw every thing that.can justly sour or ag gravate the feelings of the former. If, therefore, I ain asked what evil would resu:t from leaving the represen tation in the state in which it is at present, my answer is, the peril of driving a great part of the population, whose rights arc neglected, or who will believe that their rights are neglected, while they are denied the privilege of sending Members to this House, into the toils of the enemies of all order, who array themselves against authority of every description, and of tempting them to join in loading you with reprobation and con tempt.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It is quite true, Sir, that no Reform will satisfy the actively mischievous and despe rate class, whose influence over the better-disposed 1 am anxious to destroy. Reasonable Reform will not satisfy the non asonable ; but it will satisfy the reasonable. And who will deny, that if you satisfy the reasonable, and in dove them to unite with you, you will not be better able to deal with the unreasonable?—(Loud cries of " hear, heir, hear.") The danger of neglecting to do this is immi nent. What I want is to render the large body of the people interested in obeying the law, and zealous in de fending the institutions of the country. In such a course as that I can see no danger whatever. On the contrary, I think that the good which it is calculated to effect is extensive and certain. If you add live hundred thousand persons to those who are at present privileged to exercise the elective franchise—and be it remembered, that the least qualification of those persons is to be ten pounds, but the qualification of most of theta will be much more considerable—you will form a phalanx in support of the law which it will be impossible to overthrow. In another point of view, such a change will be eminently beneficial. It will put an end to much of that unseemly neglect of the lower classes by the higher, which at present exists. It will make the latter entertain a greater sympathy for the sufferings of the people. It will make them more cornie st-ending, less contemptuously indifferent in private life towards their iaferiots. And does nut every one see how much this will improve the character of all clasees_ how much more closely it wi I draw those bonds by which society is held together.— (Hear.) If I understood the Hen. Member for Preston, whose constituents are princi pally paupers and potwallopers, he thinks the qualific a ti on of ten pounds a great deal too high ; and he ;;ski wh y t h e qualification of four or five pounds would not render persons as good Members of the constituent body? Let the case be supposed of an individual who has approached the legal qualification so nearly as nine pounds. Is no good to lie expected from the effort to make the next and last step ? For soy own part, I think it highly advantageous that a I age class of the people should thus have always something in prospect. It tends to secure property ; and if pro perty be secure, all will be safe. The extremes of the different arguments used by the opponents of the pro hile some express their upper posed measure meet. W hen-ion of the deluge of constituency which they say will overflow the land, others lament the deprivation to which the successors of the existing potwallopers will be subjected. They say that a general sympathy will be excited for their fate. Bec I confess 1 ant at a loss to se e why it should be a source Of discontent to people in a similar class of society in the county of Surrey, or the county of Lincoln, that potwallopers in the borough of Preston, or in any other borough, shall no longer be allowed to exercise the elective franchise. The first of all the benefits, however, which I expect from this mea sure is that it will remove the causes of that general dis content which might otherwise graduate first into disaffec tion, and then perhaps into insurrection.—(Rear, hear.) To gratify the wishes of the people i s t o g i ve them enjoy ment; and if the enjoyment be innocent of its kind, they ought to have i'. sir, I will not enter into the history of past Parliament , ; but there is one principle which all liaments ought to keep in view with reference to the t). ople who live un der their protection—it i s to give the Par liament. B y p u blic opinion I do n o t mean popu l ar in dignation or clamour. But can it be denied by any man who is consistent with Parliamentary hi s t or y th a t abuses have frequently been habitually persevered in, in conse quence of the too small influence of l üblic opinion on the legislative body? Is it not true that in consequence of this fact wars have been generally protracted long after th e people have wished for peace?—(llear.)—ls it not true that in consequence of this fact the most offensive aP -1 plications h a ve been made of the public money ?—(Hear.) Is it not true that smith abominations as the slave trade have been continued for years after their condemnation by public opinion ?—(llear, hear, hear.)—ls it rot true that in uce of the little influence of sculdie Opinion, on il a tiliaments the cared :ion of the abioes it: th e Crutfinal Lsw have he c sei !Ong delayed ?—( Ilear. hear, hear.)---Sir, there is rio evil so greet, as has been well said by the Right Hon. Member for Windsor, there is nothing so calculated to Mere i'e general di•con. tent, as to delay that which must eventually be performed. In such a case the recoil of public opinion is powerful ; and a character of tenor is added to that demsnd, a com pliance with which, in the first instinct., would hive bee n considered as an act of grace. Can it b., doubted. Sir, that a Reform in Parliament, in requiring which so ereat a multitude concur, is one of those points on which delay ought no It - roger to be permitted ? When the engine is shaking with the violence of its motion, anal in danger of Intestine', the part of wisdom is tic ease it, and to give it a more steady and equable force. I do tint mean to say that a Reform of Parliament is a pituacea for all the evils under which this country labours. They ate soischievous pretenders, and designing misteachers of the people who say so.—(hear, hear.) But 1 say that it will great'y it - litigat e those evils ; and that it will produce a better un &standing between the rulers riiil those whom they govern. Is the demand fier Reform now raised leer the first time ? Is it acciderstal ? It is quite true that such a demand is most loud in a period of general distress. But is it not also true that the feeling which prompts it is never extinct, and that after any temporary suspension, it re vives like a giant refreshed by sleep, and :assumes a louder and more powerful tone ? It h is been said, that it th e el e ctive franchise of East Retlord hail been trans ferred to Birmingham, we ahould not, on this day, h the been discussing the question of a general Parliamentary Reform. It may lee so ; for when the cup is full, a single ;additional drop will necessarily cause it to overflow. Glowing embers, though conceded under ashes, may sud denly ba fanned into a consuming flame. It appears to me that three circumstances have concurred to produce the strong feeling which hag of late manifested itself throng the country in favour of Parliamentary R. firm. The proceedings respecting East Retford; in which the reasonable hopes of the people were disappointed, and they were not allowed to have even a crumb from the table. Then, the transactions respecting Newark—then the man ner in which the representations from Scotland—repre sentations from 7,000 or 6,000 individuals hare been long hung up, and unattended tee. These occasioned a growing discontent, and that may he converted Icy delay into despair, and then the feelings of resentment and of vindictiveness may arise. After this discontelit is kllo`.ll it is impossible tee say that the fe• ling of Scotland is not in its favour. But, Sir, beyond all this, and after all this, there came the petition with 19,000 names, consist big of the wealth of the canntry, and of th e i n t e lli gence and respectability of the country, and half of these names were the names of men who had never before been con cerned in meetings of this sort. I know this, Sir, front experience, I can speak from personal knowledge. It is my duty tee inquire into the state of the country, and it is from the knowhilge which that inquiry gives me, that I verrure to speak. Scotland is at present quite loyal, it is free from disorder, and is not discontented ; these have been as yet no such attacks on property, no such machine breaking as in this country; the people there have re mained es yet unaffected with that bane and venom which it has sometimes been the palicy, the mistaken policy, of governments to spre lei among them.—(Cheers from It sides of the House.)—The proof of my assertion of the degree of intelligence among the people, whose demands, whose just demands we are called on to refuse, is strongly afforded by a circumstauce which 1 shall now mention. Some gentlemen in Glasgow agreed at a meeting, there to publish, for the con ectiain of that error—that fatal error— which set the machine-breakers of England at work, a small tract, composed from the report of a Committee on the subject of the employment of machinery, and that tract began with the examination of two starving mechanics from Glasgow, out of whose inautlis the souadest sense was delivered, who advocated in the strongest manner the use, not the soepression of maeliite ry, and who looked to frugality and perseverance alone to remedy the evils under which they then suffered.—(Cheers.) There is one other benefit that a Reform in Parliament will confer on us. I bad forgotten it in the proper place, but it is of importance enough to justify my introducing of it here.— (Hear, hear.) It is this, that the class of persons who are suffering from distress, and I urn afraid that at all times distress will be felt more or less by some classes ; but these persons, when they know that they have cent persons to this House who avid lel true sym pathy for their sufferings, anti who will indefatigably, bravely, and zealously advocate their cause, will cease to to think that that distress has arisen solely from the mis government and oppression of their rulers.—(Cheers.) — They will not now take your worth; fir that fact—(Hear, hear)—while you exercise a power over which they deem they ought to posisess a greater degree of controul; but when they learn, from those in whom they have placed their willing confidence, that there are re.isons far that distress, reasons which not the best-directed wisdom could avert, they will learn to hear the evils they suffer with patience, they will talk with patience of their distress, they will submit quietly, though now they feel a degree of resentment for evils which they think are partly at least inflicted by you.—(Hear, hear.)-1 think that ther e is no man who will deny these are among the bene fits of a Reformed Parliament. I trust, from the fact of the Hon. Member for Preston being in the House, that part of the good has already been attained ; indeed, I be lieve it has, for lie himself has recently stated that he has found in this House a greater degree of tenderness fur the people, a g reater concern for their welfare, than he hail before expected to discover here.---(" No, no !" from Mr. Hunt—much laughter.)—l ant sorry the Hon. Member retreats front the point to which he had advanced—that he now takes up a different ground frotn that which he for merly occupied ; but I hope he will stay here long enough for us to teach him better. He will admit, however, that whether we go as far as he thinks we ought in listen ing to the claims of the rights of the people, we at least d o not talk of them with cruelty, but with considerate, with great, though it may be with misdirected kindness. (Hear, hear, hear, from Mr. Hont)—and no doubt he will repeat it faithfully tee toose who sent him here, and • w ill, b es ides, speak it tee those over whom lee possesses more authority than is possessed by any other Member.— (Hear, hear.) -1 will now say a few words on the subject of intimidation. The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite has reproached us m an eloquent and pathetic speech, that we do not submit our fears to argument, but our arguments to fear—that we take counsel of the alarm we have ourselves raised—and that we have rushed on des perate,afraid of the " sounds ourselves have madi." I wish the House had been told by the Right Hon. Gentleman the difference between our intimidation and that which is proposed by the Right Hon. Gentl eman hi mse lf. Th e difference between tor is this —we are afraid to refuse the just prayer of the people as expressed in their petitions__ they are afraid to do an act of justice—(Hear)—for fear the concessions of just rights may, by the perversion of all moral feelings, be made the ground for unjust demands.-- (Hear, hear.) —it certainly conies to this, and this alone, which is the ultimate ground of their refusal, namely, the Right Hon. Gentleman says, in fact, at least, " 1 am of the dangers and evils that , by some indescribable and 'ldltinexplained process, will ensue from the granting of just rights," fur the rights are just, and no man pretends to deny their justice. The people claim these rights, and the only answer proposed to be afforded them is, " I will not move from the position in which I am now," and that a nswer will produce the greatest of evils, the curse of popular disaffection. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, .. a am afraid, for fear that an indication of firmness in the allowance of a just desire will compel me afterwards to a ccede to the wishes of unjust men." Tee diatim titan between Sir, is th a t we are erail to refuse an act of j u stice, they y aro afraid to grant it.—(Cheers.) —l beg, Sir, to offer to the House my hearty thanks for the extraordi nary indulgence with which they have listened to this im perfect attempt to deliver my sentiments on this most im portant question — a task front which one so new to the House might well have shrunk, but from his confidence in the exercise of that indulgence which be so much re quired. —(Much cheering.) Mr. HUNT nise to explain. As so direct an allusion had been made to him, and as it had been stated that he was returned by paupers and potwallopers, he wished to observe, that had the Hon. and Learned Gentleman known something of our laws, he would have known that paupers c ould not vote at an election.—(Hear, bear.) —It had fur ther been stated, that he had drawn a line about the right to vote at elections, and that he had said property should be represent e d. T hat was a m i sta k e . His principle was, that every man who wa s li a bl e t o b e drawn for the Militia, and c onsequentl y to fight for his country, had a just right to vote tor th e representat i ves o f the coun t r y.—(Ch eers. ) Mr. CROKER said, that independently of any other circumstances, his rising to address the fullest House he had ever wi tnessed at that late per i o d o f a protracted de bate, was a c i rcumstance which lie wits aware loudly called for th e i r i ndulgence. But, on t h e present occas i on, lie partieul ar l y t t that : e a r t c I us were e e r v e e r a benbu 'i required the exercise of their patience and indulgenc e , e tsd, While he endeavoured to give his opinion upon this most i mportant subject ; and if he was not conv i nced, and did not f eel that it was the most important quest i on agitated p tate e c t i s t o t n i a tl:in re t as he on w s al t ls h o at f t w h , ti ou t l l d lo h u :t e e , forbidden his 8 e b akinss hear.)—lle .—(Hear, had listened to with delight p the eloquent and ingenious speech of the Learned Lord opposite—he felt delight at the tioupiere , and ingenuity of it : but he calif coed that there was mo part of that Learned Lord's adrire's which he thought [nicht have been spered to that House. He did not third that it Iva , either Parli;:'merrt,;•:7 nr rrotrient in the Learned Lord to pass art insinotafion against gentlemen took th'eopl io ,6l.. s id,, of th e q ue stion, as if they were per "n'l:•liri wcreith'ead'v Stigin:tl - 2:ed a , beinic Memb Ts of those corrupt placer? whiA ti-ete a tiout to be disfranchised, ind who Were only plead,ing theft. by sufr , rance, and ask ing for a long delay. (Cheers and laught6'r.)' The Noble and Learned Lord. who was a great Ir al authoritv, had tole them that even the strict rides of the Courts of Law would exclude from this discu-sion the majority, nay, al most the whole, of the opponents to the Noble I,rd% propo , ition. li could tea that Learned Lord, that Ow was not the I re of P trliament nor of common eensc— (Cheis)—and he would also tell the Le timed Lord, that though he would harc overlooked the obser,-a•lon from an inferior authority, and tr .ated it with what it better desert - id than an answer—(Order, order) —the learned Lord's situation repired a reply ; and he would take the liberty to all, that if he was hl.ll pri4cd at such an observa tion from one of the Learn d Lord's pto: - es,iou. lr was doubly surprised at it as coinhoz from one in the situation id the Ler;rned Lord, whose sole see; in that Howe was from a place of the su.rt now to be di-fran eloned—(Cheers)—and, as he haul been min by die phtin, hottest, straight!brward Member far Preston, it was su sp e ct e d to be more than fictitious. :Ir. KENNEDY rose to orde-. It was, he bel'eved the fact, that there teas a peti•ion against the return of the Lord Advocate, but he put it to the Speaker—lie put it to the House—whether it was usnal or orderly fir any Hon. 3lember, even of the authority- of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, thus to anticipate the decision of the House upon that petition. Toe SPEAKER—If I could hive seen or en 'erstood the observathm oldie Right Hon. Gentleman at all in the li4lot in which it is seen by the Hon. Metn' , er, I hope I should not have been. backward in calling the ltiOtt lion. Gentleman to order. I will now tithe the liberty of stating why I did not interfere. From the troderstan ling I bail of the expression, and of the intention wit', which it was employed, I unde.rstoA the Right Hon. Gentleman, to complain of the assertion made by the Lratned Lord, that certain :Memb,rs of that House were disqualified from stating their opinion on this subject because they sit for those seats which are about to be comprehended in ti e Bill. That was, as I understood, the ob•ervation of tl:e Right lion. Gentleman; and further, that not only the Learned Lord was seated as a representative of line of those places, but that there was this peculiarity in his ease, that his seat was contested.—(Hear, hear.)—l mean only that he intended to state the seat to be contested by pad ' Lion. I do not conceive that what fell from the Right Hon. Gentleman called for interruption from me, or that it affected to give a determination or decision on the merits of this petition, much less that . it (lid so with a view of influencing the feelings of this House. Lord JOIN RUSSELL said th it he should not, have risen on this point of order, if his apprehension of the mat ter had liven the some as that of the Speaker. A. the Speaker understood the Right Hon. Gentleman only to state that there was a petition against the return of the Learned Lord, h., must venture to say that ti e Si.eaker had somewhat mimnderstood the Right Hon. Gentleman, whose real words were, that the seat of the Learned Lord was " suspect , d ofbeing more than fictitious.--(Hear.) It did appear to him that these words ought not to have le.qm ti,eol with regar I to the seat of any I , lember whose case was afterwards to be tried before the selected indges of an Election Committee, anti that, therefore, his Hon. Friend's (objection on the paint of order was right. Mr. KENNEDY said, if he owed an apology to the Speaker or to the House, he should be most ready to make it ; but all he said, with the utmost decry/ace to the Speaker's authority, which no one could respect more than himself, Mrs, that there was a great distinefon between the Learned Lord's ob!erration upon the principle applicable to the seats of others who were acknowledged Members of that House, and the Right Hon. Gentleman's reference to the Learned Lord's seat, which he represented, not as lying under a general, hut under a particular disability, which particular disability was yet to come under the decision of a Committee of that Hone. Mr. CHOKER proceeded—Hi: wiehed the Hon. Mem ber had been more vigilant before, and would be more vi gilant hereafter, on the point of order ; and when he heard repeated, as no doubt he would do, that they sat there as fictitious representatives of the people—(llear, hear, hear) —his legal knowledge, his personal candour, and his Par liamentary jealousy, might induce him to interfere.— (Hear, and laughter.) The most remarkable part of the speech of the Learned Lord was the boldness with which he assailed, and the ability with which he overcame, the propositions contained in the speech of the Noble - Lord who had introduced the motion. The Learned Lord be gait by asking whether it was possible that they could, at this time of day, devote their consideration to questions stated so long ago as the time of the Tudors, and the later Stuarts and whether they did not know, that within the last 25, or at the utmost, 40 rears, new lights and new principles had got abroad—new elements of consideration had been opened, and on this experience of the last forty years they were called on to decide? But the Noble Lord went back, not only to the Tudors and Stuarts, but to the times of Edward the First, and even to the Statute de Tollagio non concedendo ; and at the close of the Noble Lord's speech, he had implored them to revert to the an cient Constitution of their ancestors. It was true, indeed, that subsequently the Noble Lord was conic with a better sight, and till them of the French revolution, the 11, Igian revolution, and of the bl tsphemy that was :broad, of the spirit of spoliation—of the extraordinary excitement of the lower classes, which excitement he proposed to allay by—every kind of encouragement.—(Hear, bear, and laughter.) Ile could make the mob quiet by giving them brandy.—( Hear, hear, bear.) The Learned Lord showed that they were obliged to make these concession*, he bad told them in pl do terms, that they were compelled by necessity. He had told them that in the petitions of the supplicating and urgent people, these concessions were dem inded—he had told them to look at these petitions, and they would see that they did not curiae from the dan gerous classes alone, but kern those more favoured orders of society which the Bill of the Noble Lord was to call into life and activity, and that unless they complied with these petitions they would encounter great perils and risks. Now he (Mr. Croker) should like to ask the Learned Lord whether he h id ever read these petitions. He (Mr. C. was sorry to say he had real two or three hundred of them for the purpose for which he would now produce them, and he dated the gentlemen opposite, front the tribes of these petitions which they wielded as arms against those on that side of the House, to produce any from which it appeared that the people would be satisfied with the meeasure of the Noble Lord.—(Hear.) Of the many hundreds that he had read, there were only two or three which did not demand infinitely more than the Nolde Lord was willing to concede. These two or three were, in• deed, distinguished by a happy generality that left them to expect anything or nothing. lie would select one of these, because it was well and moderately worded, and afforded the best specimen of the sort of demands made by the people. It was the petition from - Merthyr Tydvil. That town was a large manufacturing place, with a numerous and intelligent population. The petition asked for four things. The first was the righe—the just right (as they termed it), of having all placemen dismissed from the House of Commons.—( Hear, hear, hear, from , Mr. hunt, Mr. O'Connell, and Sir R. Peel.) Tie second was for the right of Annual, or at most Triennial, Parliament.--(Hear.) The third was the only point that the measure of the Not le Lord met, and that was, the right of having all the large towns and populous districts represented in the House of Commons, and that those places which cattle within the class of close and decayed borough=, containing few inhabitants, should be disfranchised.—(Loud cheers.) The fourth claimed the right of every man to vote at elections, who was called on in any way to contribute either to national or local t txation, directly or indirectly.—(Hear, hear.) " These are," said the petitioners, " the principal rights which we at present (leeward." All the others, or at least the ma jority of them, used the same language: and when the Learned Lord answered the Hon. Member for Pres ton, who objected to the limitation of 101. a year as a qualification for a voter, he said it was necessary, because some line must be drawn. lie thought that a rational reply. That line, however, must be arbitrary—it must be subject to the discretion of those who drew it, and for that reason he knew not a better than that drawn by the petitioners, for there was some foundation for that in the ancient Constitution of the country, and it did not seem to be drawn arbitrarily and without reference to prin ciple. Their principle was, that every man who was called on to contrilsute to the exigencies of the Stare should have a right to vote. He said, therefore, that the measure, so far from satisfying the petitioners, would but increase the alarm and disappointment of the people. The Learned Lord said that mischief and discontent would follow tire loss of. this measure, and that these would arise from a refusal of just rights. He asked what would occa sion them? The answer might be left to the Nohle Lord who introduced the measure. In alluding to the argu ment of a Right Hon. Friend of his (Mr. Croker)—the argument of Mr. Canning—that the people were not anxious for Parliamentary Reform, he said that he and his friends had called on the people, who had answered the appeal. This was a subject that was rankling in every tnan's Uartasseeant tefras hnt On his . tongue—that armed hand against the constituted authorities. That had le en the state ofhe question till the Nobte L oin ? b a d snort thtie hopee into life, or, 83 his Noble Friend (Lord Pal mer-ton) haetssaid, till he had aroused those hopes from the clamber innesliich they had long lain. He would Pee ho..n far this was Onens.e out by the fact. In 1821 there ?gene nineteen petigiona fon Reform ; in 1522, there w .ev ee e. twelve; in 1823, there were twenty.nine; in 1821, theiese a e, were none; in 1825, none ; in 18.26, none—(l-le in 1827, none—(Hear)—in 1828, none—(Hear).—in eai 1829, still none—(Cheers)—in the Session of 1830 . there were fourteen—(A laugh)—and then came the dissolution of Parliament. The Noble Lord and the eeveral Gentlemen who were with him, then went down to the General Election under eircurmtancen which gave them no reason whatever to expect on hope that they should be in their present situation ; they accordingly looked about. for a political lever— (Cheers)—to move the then existing Government, and oil the hustings, from bow-windows, and from their dif ferent abodes in all parts of the country they addr as. 11 the people on the subject. The people answered the ap peal of the Noble Lord, and 650 petitions were the result. (Cheers.)—He had not looked through the 650 eetitintas, fur he had not looked through those pianented on t-seturdny Het, when the House sat for the r special purplee of re ceiving them; but in the others, at leant in the majerity of them, there was hardly one in one of the pen.. minent demands of the people Via* not for the atorlition of tithes.—(Bear.)—F ro m this Incas of petitions lie would take one, and begged to read it ,to the Boone.—(l'he Hen. Member then read a petition from Cckerninoth, and coin merited upon its various prayers, which extend ad t e n mariner of Reform, as he proceeded.)—Did the First Lord of the Admiralty, he asked, fancy that the measures he proposed would satisfy such extensive claimants ? (Hear, hear, hear.)—The Bill, be contended, so far from being popular in its character, created no new right while it destroyed many which bad heretofore existed.— The scot and lot payers—the pot-wallopers, and those coj Lying burgage tenure—were utterly disregarded.— It was proposed to deprive these men of their fran chise, while it was, at the same time, intended to intro dune a measure untried and unexampled in the righe of election. He most strenuously opposed the limiting of the right of voting to those who rented a ten-pound house. He had always considered that the great variety ire this franchise, and the conseptently great variety in the modes by wb:nh men:could enter that House, was one of the pecular advantages of the Constitution. Now the effect tre of the Noble Lord's reeasure would be, to place the power of electing represent 4t es exclusively in the hinds of one particular class.—(l4tt: hear.) The present representa tive system might die eobeecteci to as complex ; but its complexity was likeeVae complexity in the system of the in appearance-, lint within universe,—it was complex only it worked in the most beautiful girder.__( Hear, hear.) it appeared, he stated, from the returns laid before the House, that there were in all 378,000 honees in England and Wales, and that if they were divided into sixteen classes, the three last of these cl ;sees would ce - asist of 250,000. Thus it'clearly appeared, that according to the new system, property would not be frilly repreeenteil.— This was in England ttoej Scotland it ,vould be much tors •. N o ble Lord, in tire explenation of his plan, decherel that it was necessary, in He granting of the elective franchise, that some hoe elloold he di ine n. Let them, then, observe the extraordinary effects of the line the Noble Lord had med.. He drew his first line without assigning any reason for it, excepting the sic vllo, sic jubro ; and by this he disfranchised all bo roughs consisting of less than two thousand inhabitants. He then drew his second line in like manner, with out assigning any reason ; and here, in his magnificent generosity, giving a single Aleinber to these boroughs with a population under 2,000, he declares that those having more than 4,000 may have two Members. The third line was at 10,000, and the fourth at 20,000. Now, mink hove they dealt with them. To all places haying 10,000 inhabitant~ they gave one Member, as before ; and to those having 20,000, they gave the same number as to Knareshorough and to Tavistock. How the Noble Lord could account for this I.e really did not know. He could nut conceive how, proceeding according to his arithmetical princi,des, the Noble Lord could defend the practice of giving one representative to boroughs having inhabitenta above 2,000, when he went, in the creation of electoral rights, upon the principle that ore representative was suf ficient f r 10,000 persons.—(lleer.) Those happy' ho roughs—those thriving places, which had 4,000 inha bitants, were to be saved from confiscation, and enmity the rights of returning ene Member to Parliament, while Bole ton, with its 21,000 inhabitant', could du no more. He did not mean to impute any improper motives to the Noble. Lord, hut certainly the litre he drew teas in some re greets ixtraordinary. There was the rine of the boroughs of ninon, in Yorkshire ; the House would Is' astonished and amused to perceive how nicety the line was drawn in respect of this borough. The in htbitanta of Melton precisely numbered 4,005__ (Cheers)—an I thus, while the rest of tine country was disfertnehised--while all the counties (excepting a faw of tine manufacturing counties in the north) were cur tailed of their fair proportion, and amputated in their limbs, the fortunate borough of 'Mahon escaped unscathed. (Lord J. Russell Irene pointed to a book on the table.) The Right Hon. Gentleman—oh doubtless, the Noble Lord is a great law giver, and the population returns are his pandccts. That volume formed the condex of the new Justinian.—(Cheers and leughter.) The great advantage of the present system appeared to be, that eery place had, as it were, its local jurisdiction, but the new Justinian was desirous of dcstroying all tl‘i , .—(flear, hear.) lie re gardol this as a most flagr.int proceeding, and was desirous that more information should be given before the House came to a decision. The Nohle Lord, however, wondered when more information was called for, and sjid to them, Saut out an illumination excepting that proceeding from my farthing candle, and you will bring in a lil..ze of light which will blind the country, and it it will see nothing.-- (Cheers and laughter.) The Noble Lord said, with treat gravity, that all the information which could lie de sired was on the table.—(Hear, from the Treasury benches.) The small return, lie maintained, showed niithing. (Cheers.) Touching the borough of Malton, he again re marki•d how felicitous it was in having the Noble Lord's hie drawn so near, and yet so conveniently distant. Mal ton contair.e 14005 inhabitants, and of them, be under stood f oin a gentlem .n who had once represented the place, tl e number of votes was about 500,—(H e ar h ea r. ) Happy Lord Fitzwidiam, who amidst the general wreck, could maintain his patronage uninjured ! Happy for it the power of exciting influence in the r. turn of Tien - viers to Parliament was now considered matter of such great im portance when shared amidst a couple of hundred persons, how much greater would it not he when the power was restricted to a few.—(Cheers.) How extensive then would net be that power of the leviathan of aristocracy who was suffered to retain his authority at Illaltrin.—(oh, oh !) He meant nothing disrespectful to Lard Fiiewilliam, who was the most amiable of men. He begged rather to be understood as alluding to a future Lord and he contended, that the smaller was the number of the se who retained their influence, the greater would be the power of each individual. The Noble Lord's plait was contrary to all principle.; of sense an:l equity, and even of arithmetic, on which he seemed particularly to pride himself. Let them look to the North Riding of Yorkshire, there 'Mahon, anti Richmond, and Third:, having in all 10,084 inhabitants, returned four Members to Parliament, and ths was at the rate of a reoresentatia to every 2,500 votirs. But, now, let them hail to the West Riding, and take there Huddersfield, and Halifax, and Wakefield, which bad an acgregitte population of 36,000 persons, and the House would be surprised to hear they hail only three representatives.—(Cheer, , .) He would tell the Noble Lord he would be compelled to explain this fact, ta the country..—(Loud cheers.) lie made a great and grave charge against him : that he had net duly consi dered the principle of the measure he proposed. It was a measure whisk proceeded upon the basi,r, p a r, as was asstrted, of remoleliing, but of reconstructing tho iastitutions of the country.--(Cheers.)—hie would next advert to Calm., which had never been more distinguished than by the area of ice presetat representative. Th e House, he had no doubt, would be surprised to hear how Caine was described in the vindects—th e Magna Charta of the Noble Lord. It was mentioned as the boroua,l; of Caine and the liberties of Baw-wood.—(Great returned k t r rl'idat ei ght ivould h e t h e result 'Member s t o Parliament. Now, he . ght laughter and cheering.) — Now, Caine anti the liberties of Bow-wood had precisely 4 , 6 00 inhaiitants ; Tavistock had 4,508, and taking them with Bedford and Knares borough, they rivide %II average of 19, WO iithabitants, t‘ t h it all these borough!s fell into a sitiele thing not impossible, fix al. though liilliCUlt to influence a borough containing 15,000 souls, it w as b y no means so, and required no very exten sive pr o p er t y i n t h e neighbourhood to possess uncontrolable power ov er a p l ace i n w hi c h the inhabit a nts did not num ber more than 5,000.—(11ear.) Tke House, he begged, would observe, that Blackhurne. which had five times the population of Tavistoek, twits yet to have only erne Member, and Bolton, which had twenty-two thousand i n h a bitant", would have, in like s •rt, but one Member, avbri;etittri; ford returned two.—(Hear.) thousand inhabitants, would have ,or 0„y therefore, would be no better etc' tha n t t. hat I ther e r e mained f , r him to 11 ,1 d, u t this p oinft