The Sun. — London, England, 1831-07-07 00:00:00

N' ~ t the curreney--' . complaints, was it ht 'be had recourse ley were issued, definitely. Peace ver for it ? The re it ; and if the 'at art were we to it was not likely' at it could be car fatal facilities of k Restriction -Act ould, fall 40 or 50 61. at prevent, and liversal suffrage of Temiser here sud use by saying that -erl would prevent se progress of the ess, with greater s which be enter- to the following ,pDsite, Inure par just sat down, frr us in a new !nisi .lz the Reformers ry argument with le Anti . -Reformeri speculative differ plan or Opinion, r. Canning's coo 7orne the peculiar that which is a ?: to acknowledge heir strength, frn• Anti Reformer of to by sonic a 'l'ors-," li'. own, of which a nothing, but of le principal object on of Parliament. ttice to the lion, e same horror of Ito it* principle, 'ablaut in others, titerlion indeeel, I am not one denten as happen itficult subject are aersonal motives ; bat high-minded )U$ times, beta of existing abuses, ; their property tend for in, that taking n much if they declared ie opponents of assume the title ating the cause •re convinced, as to be, that those our Constitution e wisest Legisla ist intelligent 1:m -illing t t contpru. mtge. But it is ten have so very dispute. I say hat Constitution described. It is es nf..the defects uve palliated and to praise or at () have admired on, have always ake it—a mixed entrusted wilt da, exercising its House of Cons !. I know, Sir, t have furnished des ; but if any pirited eloquent* e fmhjects, it was ignorance I must Mistaking the rtugal. when the Jr of France, he ; there very un leard the Noble rtion of modern nee, .during the arbons ueerf •upted confusion. to of the Restn en commerce, its T-and let him • of Martignac, the prospetity its resources, ligenue—let hint which the free e in the absolute I I think he will similar circum thne, made the did under that which the Noble The Hon. mixed Govern .eset ibe our own • the other two them ; and they i•rn examples-- House of Corn did destroy aged a war, in popular war) the Hon: Gen in an irror: If ting tte reelings were others, it erely the repre erests and their hat that power es of the com nto co'li*ion, to two or twenty. utional doctrine rs are the here e are their re fs all represent .11 ruppnrted by aiblic opinion ; t not necessary- be oueWt : us hat that public ne from theory ask whether we prosperity, and cm under which 'rely no floe. ) , istry as this ; which sup ' advantage, no cld be in favour buses that have rly in favour of ronet gained so crew up to pre ched police, its n strength and the tyrannical member, under But are thotc —are those eir impediments to only causes of peurd that our at our philoso of the world, [lion, and our relit ; but do e s all this to one dence has from nt to represent , or a hundred an to say that ontrary, while our national advanced our that the one vere alno)st as debt.— to exaggerate, 1 %, ill take ti e !man's hands, imperfections 101 l the House ,8 been, to use he whole has e. But let us . neans: if the iion, that the been a bar- • tier against the encroathments and expenees of the Clow , --that it has to a certain degree been a protection to th, rights and liberties of the: people, I am sure I am not 4, dined to dispute the assertion. But let us remember the in this s'nse of the term the present Council of Distil: works well, the ancient Parliament of Paris " works , vrell,'! even - Barebone's Parliament (4 worked well,". aro' • Was found too independent for Oliver Cromwell. 1 • would be impossible to choose, by any means whatsoever. a certain number of persons out of a nation without then. • being connected in some degree with the great body o• the persons they were chosen from. But the object of all good Government is to connect the interest of the go vernors as close:y as possible with that of the governed and we have not to consider whether this he not in a eer - lain degree connected with the community et large, hut • Whether we cannot knit and unite the two more closely and inseparably together. The question is not whether this House of Co smone, works tolerably well, l.ut whether we • cannot have a'House of Commons that will work better ; and really, when I look:at our villages, and see age going to the work house, and youth to the g diows—when 1 look a' • our colonies, in which slavery is still found, I cannot say that it works well. The Hon. Gentleman has alluded to the changes which have been ntede in other countries : and certainly when a change is too sudden and too violent, when the most intelligent but. by far the smallest number of a community rashly substitute a new Governrreat, (better adapted to their own wants and wishes perhaps) for an old one, which, however, is still dear to the habits and the recollections of the people, the change is not likely to be beneficial. Such a change was formerly made'irt France, where liberty, for want of being properly under. stood, assumed the titernate charac`er of terror and licentiousness. The second was more recently the case in Spain and in Portugal, where a modern constitution, has tily adopted, was rot able to stand again , t an ancient de spotism th rt had not ceased to he loved. But if these ere cases which render a change too violent and sudden, ran that be said to be the case with us ? Can this change • be said to conic unpremeditatedly before a people by whom it his been agitated for upwards of a century, and to whom it was presented in almost the same shape as at present about thirty years ago ? Is it then the plan of a few, to Which the many are ill prepared and disposed ? 1 think I can appeal to the Hon. Members who for the first • time take their seats in this House-1 think I can appeal to the melancholy shades still hovering over yonder benches of the Hon. Gentlemen who have departed from itn—as an evidence of the fact, that whatever this change • way be,. it has, at all events, the sanction of the great majority of this country.. But it is singular enough, that • the same Hon. Gentlemen who contend that the change it - too sudden or too violent, maintain also that it is not sustden and violent enough : the angry declaimers against Governments of theory, the enthusiastic admirers of our ano inalous Constitution, find fault with his Majesty's Mini sters for not having lopped off all these anomalies at once - for not having divided England into so many municipal departments—for not having constituted so many elec tore! colleges. If we are to have a change say they, in God's name let us have such a change as this. The Hon. Gentlemen have adopted their opinions wi:h too much facility to have looked very accurately into their founda tion, or they would have found that many of the same anomalies exist in the present Constitution of France which the Hon. Gentlemen think that such a Constitution would necessarily abolisin But b. fore I answer this ar gument seriously, let me know whether the Hon. Gen - ttemen are in earnest. If they are, let them coins for • ward' and propose that a National Assembly should be convened, and a new Constitution given to the country; but if that which they se' in to call for is that which in • reality they most shrink from. then will they do well to remember that what is urged inconsiderately by them today, may be raga d considerately against them to-mor row ; ani that it will he frou the arsenals of those who stand here the ()geodes!' of the Ili itish Constitution. that its enemies will take their weapons to destroy it.—(Hear.) But whatever inconsistencies there may be in the argu ments of the Hon. Gentlemen, they are, at all events, con sistent in their conclusions. Whether this change he too sudden and violent, or whether it he not sudden and vio lent enough, it is equally certain that great calamities are to ensue from it. Would not any one who heard the Hon. Gentlemen imagine that this debt was due to five or six wealthy aristocrats, whose interest it was the ob ject of the middling classes to promote? Is this the case? So far from it, this species of property is di sided into such small proportions, that if the interest of those who derive their income from the public funds were taken at an average, it would amount to about 1001. per. annum. So that those persons whom the Hon. • Gentlemen suspect as likely to destroy this species of property, are, singularly enough, the very persons to whom it belongs..—(Hear, hear, hear.) But I am aware that even if I could persuade the Ho nourable Gentlemen that the national debt is sale, they would still say that the Church and the at istocracy are so unpopular, that an adequate representation of the people Would immediately proceed to destroy both. This reproach, coming from friends, is certainly severe, more • especially when we remember, that if there are any senti ments deeply grafted into society, they are reverence for the - Ministers of religion, and respect for those who unite hereditary rank with large possessions. Nor is there any • example in history of the one being despised, or the other • detested, but through their own crime and misconduct. • if the Church and the aristocracy bad really lost the affec tion of the people, instead of vainly endeavouring to pre vent their fall, we ahould rather rejoice at having found a legal form for affecting it.—(Hear, and " oh.") But I do not think things are yet gone so far ; and I should like to know who are the best friends of this Caine Church and at istocracy—such pen sons plead their unpopularity as an excuse for the maintenance of their obnoxious privileges, or • those who would give them populatity as the means to • preserve their. power ? When an ancient city decreed that . there should be no walls for its defence, did it mean to ex pose itself thereby to the insolence or violence of its ene miss? No, Sir, the Legislator knew, and he wished his fellow-citizens to understand, that the real ramparts of a State are the valour and the virtue of its citizens. " Away," said he, " with those idle barriers, which tnay • serve to delude ,you into security, hut which cannot pro . trot you from danger." So, Sir, say we, away with those •• rotten defences which the progress of intelligence has ren d' red untenable: let not the Church or the aristocracy suppose that it is beneath the worn-out works of past times that they can stand secure, if their present services do not sanction their ancient origin. Let them know—l wish them to know.--.the real nature of the prestige which surrounds them with inv i olability • to-day, but which the narrow-minded bigotry of the one, the ignorance and party • zeal of the other, may weaken—annihilate to-morrow.— (Hear.) Let them know, that their only protection is • public opinion ; and that, if they wish to stand secure, they • must he guarded by a respect for their character, and a • senseof their utility. But the Hon. Gentleman asks if we are certain of stopping here in the course we are pursuing ? Heaven forbid that we should be certain of stopping any where in the course of improvement. Heaven forbid that we should he certain that at. this, or any time, the pro gress of civilization should cease, or civilization fail to be attended by its just results. I, at all events, do not pre sume to think that we can legislate for eternity. All that we can pretend to by means of the present measure is, that it seems likely to satisfy the principal wants of the present epoch. To pretend to an absolute authority over the future would, indeed, be to adopt the notions of the lion. Gentleman, who would make us the blind slaves of the past ; and indeed, Sir, it is not so touch for the pecu liar merits, as fur the happy principle of the Bill before us, that in turning from the obscurity of those days which I do trust are set for eve:, I accept this measure as the promise of a brighter dawn. We are at length obtaining, in a peaceful manner, a new charter, as precious as that me which our fathers formerly conquered at the point of the sword. But there is this d fference between our an cestors arid ourselves—they fought for the liberties of the people as the inheritance of the past—we assert them as the prerogative of the present.--( Hear, hear.) They de manded the record of tradition—we claim the consequence of improvement. At length our claim is allowed ; but how guest have been the doubts and difficulties through which me have struggled to enforce it. Through many a long year were those principles denounced as theories by • yonder Hon. Gentlemen, which the voice of the country now unanimously proclaims to be truth. Thus many a long year did the Hon. Gentlemen beside me vainly de - vlint's in despite of those denunciations, that there would come a time when we should no longer suffer bad timings, . because our ancestors had suffered worse—that there would come a time ;when the hoary head of inveterate abuse • w ould m neither c l a i m reverence nor o b ta i n protection. Th e f has com e ;it has come slowly, but it has come ; ren dering fur ever memorable the reig n of our gracious Sove reign, whose n ame i s of happy augury in the an nals of this country ; anti a s i t h as hitherto been glorious by our escape from bigotry, it will now be celebrated for our de ..liverance from corruption,—(The Hon. Member sat down amidst•loutf cheers ) Lord VALLETORT said, the Noble Lo l rd(Altliorp) had assured the House last ni g ht that the Aristocracy would lose nothing under the new system, unless they failed to profit b y the ad vantages of property and station, or grossly misconducted th emsel ves . He, for one, doubted much the accuracy of the views of the Noble Lot d on that riot, a nd, he cot fessed he saw much to alarm him for the Safety of the t ights and privileges of the Aristocracy in the eveuts which Lad alreitly taken place.—(Hear.) n•it stand there to contend that these things happened in ordinary times, fir without the use of more than ordinary influence. Manoeuvres and artifices had been resorted to, which. in ordinary times, would not ever have been tolerated.—(Hear, hear.) If no other than ordinary means had been used, the result of the election 'would have been very different in the county with which he was connected, and that able and patriotic gentleman (Sir R Vyvyan) who had represented it in the last Parliament vould have still represented it at that moment.--(Hear.) Let them not suppose, however, that the county of Corn wall was to be set down as decidedly favourable to Reform because it had rejected that Hon. Baronet and returned his opponent by a large majority. If all wire excluded from the lists of the majority who came to the hustings with the conviction that the success of the Reform Bi would demolish the tithe system—(Hear, hear)—if all tee( e excluded from the majority who came to vote for the Reform candidate, with the impression that it would terel to get rid of all taxes—(llen - , hear) —if all were excluded who came to the hustings under an improper use of the King's name—(Hear, hear) —and who were led to tielieve that by sinpportieg the Him. B tronet and him (Lord Val letort), awl those who professed an attachment to the institutions of their country, they were showing their dis loyalty to the C.own—(Chcers)—if all were excluded wi t ' came utuli-r expectations which are never realised, an promises . never to be fulfilled---( Hear, heat )—h e wou ld ass' ;t boldly in his place in tl at House, that Sir Richard Vyvyan would at that moment betl,e Member for the county of Cornwall. He gave the Noble Lord (Althorn) and hiscolleagues all credit fer the sincerity of their opinions and ties integrity of their motives; but he felt bound to say at the same time, that it; his bumble opinion, by the Bill then befere the House, they were en dangering the peace and overturning the pro.perity of the country.—(hear, hear.) With regard to the question of Reform, it was a common ease with the Reformers to ash those opposed to their plin of Reform, what plan they would he dispo.ed to support. ? It was not for I,im to take en himself to propose any specific plan of Reform, but he would state the principles which must form the foumlation of t•w plan of Reform to which he could give his ossent. He wool& say then, that the House of Com mons must continue to possess the power of controlling the passing will of the people, and that it had no greater power at the present moment, was evident from the effects which had followeJ the late dissolution. To that dis-. solution he appealed in support of the far.'. They were told that the House must carefully examine all the mea- sures which it allowed to pass into a law. Here was a plan of Rh-form which requirtd greater examination and more mature consideration than any ever submitted to Parliament, and was it likely to he examined and dis- cussed with an attention equal to its importance ? (Loud cries of " Hear.") He belieVed, on the contrary, that if the discussion was left solely in the hands of those who were sent to that House for no other purpose than to deliberate on the merits of the Bill, these per,ons would pass it without any examination whatever.—(heir, heare) They were told, within and out of doors, that if the Lords attempted to exercise their privileges, they would firing about a ri volution—at least that was the language of some of the Members, and one Member had last night done as much ae any individual could do to impress the House and the country with the necessity of that conclusion.— (Hear.) He would advert, too, to another point, which he did not think had yet been touched on in the discus sions on the Bill. He thought that the Ministerial plan of Reform would cripple one of the most important func tions of the Crown—the exercise of its prerogative in the choice of its Ministers.--(Hear, heir.) Ile thought this was no idle fear. In what manner were the Ministers to be elected after the passing of the Bill? He would ask where was the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, or was it necessary that such a Minister should be repre sented in that House ? He supposed they were to wait until the Noble Lord was returned for some of the popular places which received their franchise from the Bill. He would conciude by avowing his opposition to the present Bill, although he hoped that the long-declared wishes of the country on the subject of Reform would not long be del ryed.—(Heir, hear, from the Ministerial benches.) The Noble Lord and his colleagues expressed great exulta tion at this; would tell them what was the real state of the case. The party opposed to him could have con tinued the contest for a long time, and have granted ac cording to their own views that degree of Reform which their experience showed them was desirable, bed not the Noble'Lord and his party raised a force in their rear. Mr. STRICKLAND, after adverting to the state of Ireland, and to the absolute necessity of granting the people some great measure of peace, union, and concilia tien, declared his conviction that they wished for no change which could hear- the slightest appearance of revolution. The people, as far as he had an opportunity of learning their sentiments, desired a restoration of their ancient rights of popular election, but they desired no more. It had been said in the course of those discussions, that the new Members were compelled to give pledges to support the Bill and nothing but the Bill. No such pledge had been exacted from him. Among the thousands he had canvassed, no man had asked him for such a pledge, and he came as free into that House to express his opinion of the Bill as any of the Members he saw around him. Al though one of the Members for the great county of York, which be might more properly call a province of England, he was yet as free to state his opinions, and to take ohjec thins to the Bill, as the Hon. Member opposite (Sir C. Wetherell), who represented a few decayed cottages at Boroughbridge, in a corner of the same county. With respect to the . Bill, he might say, that although be ap proved of the disfranchising clauses, he thought it abso lutely necessary to give representation to the large towns, yet there were other parts of it to which he could not quite reconcile himself, and which he might say did not go far enough.—(Hear, and a laugh.) If the Bill was intended to produce a final settlement cf the question of a Reform in the representation, he would ask how that could lie expected, when the county of Nottingham, with only 196,000 inhabitants was to have its representation dou bled, while the great province of York was to have an addition of only six Members.—(llear, hear.) Advert ing to another, although a minor point, and one for which he was not inclined to oppose the whole Bill, he must say he could not reconcile te himself the propriety of a division of the counties.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He had always been much disgusted by seeing the bailiffs of Noblemen and men of property driving up herds of tenants to the hustings, who were, if questioned on the subject, seldom able to tell even the name of the candidate for whom they were to vote. Now, be confessed, he was much afraid that the division of the counties would tend to perpetuate this system, and that, by seeking to make the elections too easy, they would soon hear much more of nomination counties.—(llear, hear.) The Hon. Member then proceeded to comment on the changes of opinion among public men, and observed, that the Ministry, which so triumphantly io one Session refused all concession to the Roman Catholics, and referred so boldly to the Coro nation Oath, had unanimously agreed to unqualified con cession in the succeeding Session. They had then, how ever, declared it to be their determination to r eeist all other changes. "Thus far shalt thou go, and no farther," was their motto. A single word against Reform proved, in a short time destructive to the Ministry ; and now, as if to prove the truth of the assertion, that truth is stronger than fiction, the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tatnicorth (Sir R. Peel), who refused the smallest possible Reform—who set himself decidedly against even the transfer to a great town like Birmingham of the forfeited franchise of a close, decayed, and corrupted borough, has avowed himself a Parliamentary Refirrmer.—( Hear.) Under such circumstances, and with an opposition of such a nature as that which now presented itself, he trusted the Government would persevere in their course, and by re forming the representation of that House, confer a lasting benefit or: their country.—( Hear.) Sir C. WETHERELL claimed for himself, as Member for the cottages of Boroughhridge, as great a share of in dependence as the Hon. Member who had represented, as l i e had told them, the great province of York. The borough he represented formed but a speck in that province, and although he did not hold of the Hon. Member, his Lord, as .he must call him by villenage, or any feudal tenure, still he would tender to him his most respectful re cognition of provincial superiority. The lion. Member had illustrated his i nd ependence by observing that be came into Parliament as unfettered as the Member for Borough bridge. Now if at any time the M em b er f or one o f t h e provinces taunted the Member a borough with his want of independence, the Igembi r fur the borough would have a right to reciprocate, according to the confession of the Member for York. Premising, then, that he was as little in oinculis as any Member of that House, he would now ! , roeeed to make some few observations on the question of Reform. In the last Parliament he had declared himself hostile to the Reform Bill, and he must say, that all his objectio ns were since that period by many degrees con firmed ; and hi s judgment was stren g thened b y consider ation in r e probating its principle, and condemni ng a ll i ts details.—(Hear, hear.) Th e general subject matter of !he Bill involved a great many Constitutional and ele mental principles; but he would confine himself to two. the disfranchisement of the boroughs, and the extension of the right of representation. By the first, 154 seats were decanted, if he might so express himself, to 154 other • places. ( A laugh.) The corks were to fl y out of 154 hottlts, Intl their contents to be poured into 154 now recipients. By the next - pLin, the eleztive -franchise was to be tiike9 o away from all who hail held it by what is called persond fieedom, and to be given to , 10/. householders. These were the two main principles of the Bill; and to these he proposed to adthess himself. lie had been charged with using too strong I.ingoage When he cared the disfranchise ment a corporation robbery; but if any friend of the 11.11 . _ . - could find .him a better, he would, in academical lan2uw, accept it, and sutf , r himself to he plucked.--(A laugh.) His Hon. and Learned Friend opposite, whom he a!ways heard with great pleasure, had charged the opponent. 4 of the measure with terming the elective franchise a property. He (Sir C. Wetherell) had never to called it. Bat a!- though it was not property, in the usufructuary sense of the word, it was property according to the general rules :)), whi c h prwcrty was constituted and tzuarded. It was so recognized by a clause in tlagna Charta, which l would pres?litly read to the House. It was so recogniz , t , ' by the law of the land. It was held by Lord Chief Jus , ic. Holt, in the memorable case of Ashby and White, that an action for pecuniary daolages might 6; sustained tin 'he refusal of a just rilfht of voting; for that chit right was prop,•rty, according to the uniform rule anil prac tice of the law. He would trouble the House with a few re. narks on the character of the disfranchisement which it was proposed to them to enact. The authors of the Bill IA vio lent hands on all the boroughs enumer ;tad in schedule.; A _ . . . and B; the list of which was so app thing, that the Cionglit it right to withdraw it from the Bill, and tyrant it op in the schedule; feeling that whoever had to read it 'nest call for an orange or a gla.e= of lemonade to reit etsli himself during his labour; and, therefore, thinking that it would be better to make the Pchedul,s the depositary of it, and thereby save the Members the fa'igue of its perusal... And here lw would withdraw any offensive terms which he might have formerly used in speaking of the Bill. He would cal it the Reforming of Boroughs Bill, or the Dis franchisement Bill, or any other name that would he more agreeable to the delicate ears of its friends. But would now call the attention of the House to the passage _ _ in Mauna Char a to which he had already alluded ; by which it would appear, that the elective franchise was con sidered equally valua',le—that it was placed on the same Footing—that it was protected by the same laws ,f the realm, as freehold or any other description of property,— The passage was as follows !—" The City of Lond,,n shall have all the old liberties and customs which it bath been used to have. Moreover we w;1 and grant, that all other cities, boroughs, towns, and barons of the five ports, and all other ports, shall have all their liberties and free customs.—(Loud cries of " hear, hear !" from both sides of the House.) He heard the deep at.d sonotoos voice of his Hon. Friend the Member for 'Westminster, to whom be would only observe, that if he would have a little patience he would have the opportunity of playing the schoolmaster, and setting him (Sir Charles Wetherell) right, if he was wrong. He could assure his Hon. Friend that he was not afraid of him as a pedagogue. He also heard the deep and sonorous voice of the Honourable and Learned Member for Kerry. He was not afraid, how ever, of the exposure which the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was, he presumed, preparing for hist ; being quite sure that it would he accompanied by the Hon. and L-arned Gentleman's accustomed good humour and sense of propriety. Those, however, who thought that they could set him right on the point to which he had just adverted, would have to -show that it was a proposi tion contrary to law that they had no more tight to take the right of voting from a man than to take from him his pecuniary or other property. Senne friend of the measure might exclaim, " What ! cannot the House of Commons take away elective franchise if they choose ?" He (Sir C. Wetherell) did not say the House of Commons might not do so if they choose. He did not say the House of Com mons might not pass a Bill to take away any man's estates. He did not Fay the House of Commons might not pass a Bill to confiscate the splendid domains of Woburn Abbey. —(Hear, hear.) But he thought that the Noble Lord opposite would go along with him in thinking that any such law would he, not a law of right, hut the law of the strongest—that it would be merely the jus fortioris—that it would be a knock-down blow inflicted by a majority. He was not disposed to deny the omnipotence of Parlia ment ; he was not disposed to doubt their power to cashier and cancel the rights of every Corporation, and to dis franchise every man in the kingdom. Abstractedly he was not disposed to question their equal power to do all this, as to interfere with all pecuniary and other property. They might, if they chose, abolish the Habeas Corpus Art ; or adopt any other measures injurious to the liberties and in terests of the people. In th.it tense of the expresssion, he did not deny the power of Parliament. But he styposed that any such proreeding weal be generally admitted to be unjust, tyratmic 41, and oppressive.—( Hear.) He would now beg to call the attention of the House to the opinions of several eminent men on the general subject of the disfran chisement of boroughs. The authors of the Bill acted as if they thought the elective franchise might be packed up in a box, and sent any where by coach. The elective fran chise of Boroughbridge they proposed to pack up, and send down to Cheltenham ; and the elective franchise of Ald - borough they proposed to pack up, and send down to Brighton. Now what had eminent men said on this subject? When the Shoreham case was under the con ' sideration of Parliament, Mr. Fox declared that he could not go the length, because a portion of the electors had been proved delinquent, of disfranchising those who were free from offence. When the Nottingham case was under the consideration of Pat liament, Lord Grey, then Mr. Grey, objected to the Bill because it was one of disfran chisement ; and Mr. Fox maintained, that if the principle on which it was founded were followed up, not a Corpora tion would be left existing in the country. A more rash and tyrannical innovation on the Constitution tban the present bad never been attempted. The main principle of the Bill was to raise up a new body of electors throughout the empire, by conferring the right of exercising the elec tive franchise on all 101. freeholders. As he had observed on a former occasion, the tendency of the measure was to democratise, he had almost said to sans-culottise, the Con stitution.—(A laugh.) Why, the French Jacobin philo aophei s of 179-2 did not propose to render the qualification of an elector so low as the qualification proposed by the present Bill. The class to be invested with the elective franchise by the present Bill would constitute the large majority of the electors of the country, and would, in some places, hem three to one, in others as four to one, in others as five to one, compared with the higher classes of electors. The power was to be taken from the legitimate conservators of our ancient institutions, to be taken from men of property and rank, and given to the ten-pounders. Ten pounds was considered the golden rule--the happy medium between extremes. He would demonstrate, from a copy of the French Constitution in his possession, that the framers of that Constitution in 1792 did not permit the scale of voters to sink so low. Those individuals—jaco bins as they were in their hearts, and pedants as they were in their heads—not only did not permit the scale of voters to sink so low, but they made their voters pass through a kind of filtering stone, in the shape of what they called an electoral body, in order to cleanse them front their po litical tilth.—(A laugh.) Those voters were to choose, not Members of the Parliament, but only the electoral j body, which electoral body was to choose the Members of the Parliament. But what were the qualifications of the voters so limited in their authority, by the French Consti tuters of 1792 ? By the clause in the Bill, the character of which the Noble Lord opposite—not ignorantly, but inadvertently (he believed that was the favourite word), or by a clerical error, or by some other featherly light devi ation from cot rectness had nearly changed in a most ma terial point, the qualification fixed at a 101. a year house holder. By the French Constitution of 1792, the qualification of a similar kind was required to amount to 151. or 20!. What had his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Kuaresborouzli stated. with respect to the qu lificaions of electors, it( the well-knows contest on the subject of the French Revolution between hint and Mr. Burke ? He regretted that his H •n. and Learned Friend was not present to answer the advocates of the ten-pound qualification. In that celebrated trea tise, the " Vindichr," his Honourable and Learned Friend, sp-aking of the Primary Assemblies and of the candidates, said—" In those far more numerous cases where the (the candidates) are too obscure to obtain that notice but by the polluted medium of a popular canvas, this delegation is still more evi dently tvise. The peisant, or artizan, who is a primary elector, knows intimately men among his equals, or ;ante diate superiors, who have information and honesty enough to choose a good representative. But among this class (the.only one which he can know sufficiently to judge) he rarely meets with any who have genius, leisure, and am bition for that situation themselves. Of the candidates to the electors in the department he may be a disinterested, deliberate, and competent judge. But were he to be cam ' plimented, or rather mocked, with the direct right of electing to the legislative body, he must in the tumult, venality, and intoxication of an election mob, give his suff rage without any possible just knowledge of the situa tion, character, and conduct of the candidates." It thus ap peared to be the opinion of this learned and eminent riter, that the classes to whom the franchise had been communicated in France, although higher than those to whom it was now proposed to give the elective franchise r in England, Although they might be competent to chaise the electoral body, were not competent to choose the actual ' l egislators. Perhaps some Honourable Mem' era would ay that "the tumult, venality, and intoxication of an Glee , tint mob" was an expression not applicable to that ntont- faus class of ten-poundeis Who were to have the frinchisr conferred upon them by the present Bill. In such at opinion he vsluld not agree... He had stated, although not with any:intentien, that by.the new system .many of the :timbers would be returned to the House as the delegates not as the. representatives of the people ; that they wouk he required not to exercise their own judgment, hut to obey the mandates of others. In the French Constitution to which he had alludtd, it was, however, laid down as unconstitutional in a Member of the legislature to be al : hound. He was to give an indepmdent Vote, and no t to be instructed bow to vo t e b y his constituents. By the pr e . sent Bill, h oweve r, the citizen mob were to be made the masters of the citizen Parliame n t. The q ues tion under considerationthew,,,tn aff ~f of s t h t House iie wass ofelt notlt it. The fact w as , quistion of p ar t y it that it was not until the present Bill had been brought io by this conservative, or rather this despoiling Administta -ion, that he had resumed his co:inn:ion with those with whom he had formerly acted in that House. d i d s „ • ~....... . because be - felt that the question Was not which of two parties should ex'st, but whether the Constitution which i-elonced to the people should remain —whether the:e should be any party, or any Government.—(llear, hear.) The question was, whether they were to pot down the Church, the Monarchy, and the Peerage ?—(llear, hear.) The question wax, whether the Monarch, the Peerage, tnd the Church were to le entrusted to the conservative care: and honourable feeling of a plebeian body of voters ; or whether the legitimat e p rinci p les of the Constitution , recognised by the usage of a g es, w a s t o he supported and maintained ?--(Meer.)Wax it to be supposed th a t th ese zen-pounders would b~ very deeply interested - in th e pre servation of this balance w h i ch had hitherto hem the boast of our Constitution? Were they calcu l ate d by t heir piety to he a cor.serva!ive body as respected the Church, by their I , yal , y to be a c m.servative body ax respected the Crown, by their habits to be a conservative body as respected the Peer. age? And dig the Hon. Members call this a restoration ? If he were ftequently hitnself unhappy in his phrases, be must take the liberty of saying that he considered those _ .. .. . .. d • C. , as peculiarly infelicitous who termed that which it w a s now proposed to do a restoration. He would only repeat the admirab'e question of the Hon. Member for Calling ton, - 'j When did that which you now wish us to adopt form any part of the Constitution-?"—(Hear, hear.) He would only beg any lawyer in the House to consult Selden and ascertain whether the lion. Member for Stand hail been correct in the opinions which he attributed to that learned antiquary. He wished Sehien was in the House. (A laugh.) If he could so iar indulge a flight of fancy as to suppose Salon seated by the Noble Lord, he was sure he should see him jogging the Noble Lord's elbow, or pulling him by the ear, and imploring him not to quote him as an authority for the opinions which the Noble Lord hid advanced. Let the measure be called a new- tangled system, a C,omwellian system, or have any other nick-name applie , l to it; but let it not ha supposed to have the authority of one of the roost learned and etninent writers of whom England could boast.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was utterly impossible th tt those who used the term restoration could deceive themselves into the supposition that they were replacing the elective franchise u: , on the footing on which it _stood at any former period of our history. He would now adveit to what had been stated with respect to the 101. franchise by a Lyarned Lord, and by the Hon. and Learned Member for Caine, who had addressed the. House with an eloquence and a power which be (Sir C. Wetherell) hail never heard surpassed, and who had experienced 83 much well-deserved applause from the House.—(Hear.) He agreed with the Hon. Member in thinking, that the middle classes do form a body peculiarly qualified to enjoy fully the elective franchise. I do not differ with those who propound the theory, that the middle classes consist of persons whose opinions it is most de sirable fora Minister to consul - . But still they would re main at issue as to the fact of who were, in truth the middle classes—who were they that fell within the lion. Member's description. Not, certainly, he would declare, those tcn-pound freeholders of their's ; and he wobld ex plain why, although he feared he might be offensive in what he had to say. It was an indisputable fact, that great numbers of those ten-pounders paid their rent weekly— not half-yearly, nor quarterly, nor monthly—but weekly. Now hi-re was a class of men that their landlords would not trust only from week to week; and were they, he would ask, proper persons to trust with the power to re turn Memiters to the House of Commons ? Some people, it lean true, did think they were ; and; when it was sup posed they might be possibly excluded, a body of person. calling themselves the Birmingham Political Union had taken up the subject ; but he was sorry to see that the Prime Minister of this country bed recognized them.— (Laud cheers.) If that Reform were to be a restoration of the British Constitution, he would ask the readers and qu tees of Selden, if it was consistent with its ancient prac tice and principles that a Prime Minister should recognize by his letter a usurping body of men, who claim to be a corporation, :iut who are a self-constituted corporation? —(Continued cheering.) Would it, he asked, be conso nant with sound reason, that, even if the most extensive alteration were to be made—if we were to make a new State, a Prime Minister should recognize this arbitrary institution.—(Cheers.) If the Birmingham Union peti tioned the House of Commons by that name, he asserted it could not be received, because the petitioners would present themselves loaded with a character to which they were not entitled.—(Cheers.) In their individual capa• w a i l , l ieh this always with regret; si,ouid city they might petition ; but they coul d no t in their cor r)ourtahtee character.—(Cheers.) a said it with the independence lie his. He would not follow the H o n. Memb .r for Knaresborough in the course he mentioned of venality, He said falsehood, and the degradation of telling untruths to any body. He charged the Prime Minister with it great and glaring impropriety in recognising, by his letter, an un lawfully constituted and falsely assumed corporation.— (Great cheering.) He had been going on to say that the ten-pound system was highly mischievous, and thet in the largtst towns of England the ter-pound men were paupers; and he believed in Bristol, and certainly in many other towns, this was carried to such an extent, that, from the destitute state of those people, even a poor's rate was not payable. These ten-pounders were, in fact, a mere mockery of a representative body —(Hear, hear.) He tenturel to assert it at a proposition in the abstract that ten-pound men were not fit for the enjoyment of the elective franchise.—( Hear, hear.) What, he would ask the Hon. Gentleman opposite, was this their conservative body ?--( Hear, hear)—the respectable constituency of the parish workhouse ?—(Cheers and Laughter.) But for his now part he considered that to solicit votes in the laza retto—(Continued laughter)—in pauper establishments— was degrading to the character, qualifications, and station of a r e presentative. —(Continued cheers and laughter.)— Great was the alarm, however, and great the indignation, at the idea that this body was to be diminished. The Hon. Members' opposite own beloved press, theirMorninp Chronicle, and other papers, turning aside, for the mo ment, their wrath against corrupt boronghmongere vented it upon Ministers themselves. Their own friends, their own admirers, their own beloved daily press, declared that the obnoxious clause must have been introduced, either from ignorance in the framer of the Bill, or from the breach of faith or delusion upon the part of Ministers who suffered - it to be put in. --(Hear.) If he were at liberty to make a Constitution de novo—if he had a blank leaf be fore him whereon to trace it out, he never would breathe surh an insolent proposition—a proposition founded on folly and fatuity in principle, and ignorance and heedless• nets in its details; he never would dream of soiling that leaf with any proposition founded on the sans culottizing pr • ineiple of the French revolution, which the Constitution of that country had exploded, and which every Constitu tion ought to explode, as too degrading and too base for the ippointtnent and regulation of the general body of e lectors.—(Loud cheers.) He next begged to ask the county Members, who were generally described as the r epresentatives of the landed interests, whether, in counties and manufacturing towns, certain pledges were given— nee, he meant, upon the part of Government, but by Bon. Gentlemen on the hustings, who undertook to hint at intentions, and to insinuate pledges on their behalf 2 (Cries of " name, name.") He asked if the prospect of free trade in corn had not been h. id out—(Name, name) --of the quartern loaf being sold for Sid. ?—(Name, n ame.) How could he, he asked, name ? Did the Hon. Members who raised this cry suppose that • he had the übiquity of a conjuror, so as to be present upon all those hustings ?—(Laughter, and long continued cries of " name.") The Hon. Gentleman at length obtained a hearing, and proceeded to say—The last man in the llousewho should call on him to name was the Hon. Me mber for Essex, who was not on the hustings during his e lection from first to last.—(Laud cheering, which lasted for several minutes.) So much for short memory.— (Another burst of cheers and laughter.) He repeated, that expectations of a fiee trade in corn had been held forth in many places in England.—(Cheers and "name, % n v a h in ic eC t ) he Ihe wished wivesf ofthe , he could m men,wh,) w n er a es e up o p n s e place in supposed deapable of influencing and overruling their votes, had such pros pects held forth to them.—(Name, name.) He would dame the places if he were driven to it : but he would a ow Co nn m i m de it i ree u , dne h e ew e' n — uld assert hirthmis (Cheers.) undertake to If they adduce w wouli d thence in .proof of his assertion. It could not he de nied, that in many places the people were told that they would derive immense advantaes from the destruction of •he East bid'i ntontipMy-:-.411 . at, for insiance; they wal , have the finest tea for a shWing a pound.—(Natne, name.) Mr. F. LEWIS spoke to order. He observed that, i vas very unfair in Hon. Gentlemen to raise this cry of "Name, namOr when 't evi lently not for informa- tion; but *limply to-interrupt the sp..akt , r. Kir C. \VETHERELL resum-d—The Hon. Gentle. men who raised that cry for the purpose of interruptiny should lose their labuur.—( Hear, hear.). If men win had pledged themselves to support the Bill, the whol, Bill, and nothing hot the all, gave utterance to the cry. , e would tell them it was unavailingly and unprofitably launched.—(Cheers.) He could only say that he knew the fact. In one of the midland counties a handbill, ro •.anner, with a certain theoretical decoration, had beo lisplayerl on the hustings.—(" Nam, r' and " sear.") A theoretical flat!: had been displayed in a count, arhich was at present called Northamptonshire. In tip aew departmental division of England it would probalrly 'care a new name.—(" Hear," and laughter.) 80., touching this flag, he could not vouch for the fact, as Was not himself present ; but—(Conflicting cries of .4.01-, ! hear, hear," during which an Hon. Member whis pered Sir Charles, who, on resuming, said)—He wss m i.. ta k en ; i t was in Worcestershire in which the flue -vas i-xhitited, in connection with the name borne *1 the Noble Lord connected with Nortliamptonshire.±- (Laughter.) On this flag was displayed, "Spencer and no Corn Laws." Now, it could not be deeino any very violent stretch of fancy, or described in instance of malignant Tory mi-cinstructims, if he were to say, this was calculated to spread abroad the opinion that the Noble Lord was not averse to a fr•e trade in corn. The Noble Lord's nod should not distuili him, even though it were one of disapprobition. But now he came to ask, how could inen—county Members—call themselves the friends of - the landed interest, when they encouraged such things, and inculcated such doctrines? which he described as ceit tin to produce collision betwean those who really represented the agriculturists, and thoie who represented the manufacturing interests in the :re formed Parliament. He next piocecded, amidst mind) confusion, to observe, that he supposed Hon. Members would not cry out " name" when he stated, that abolition of tithes was one of the expectations raised in the consti tuency of many places—(Hear, hear, and no)—and h4l been in fact described as synonymous with Reform. Nor would it, he presumed, he denied that the new consti tuent body bad intimated their intention to apply the sponge to the national debt.—(No, no, hear, hear, &c.) The Hon. Gentlemen opposite were peculiarly happy in wit happening to have been cantiitlates at any of those placei. —(Cheers and laughter.) They had all been peculiarly fortunate, and their good fortune was never likely tit. occur again either to themselves or anybody else.—(Cheers and laughter.) They were happy in being- returned fer places in which their constituents made no complaint, mar called on them for any pled lea, or demanded from them any promise that they would endeavour to free them froM their grievances, or respecting any other of those mat ters which are not unfrequently discussed betweeh electors and their representatives.—(Cheering and laugh ter.) And yet there were cases in which a difference in opinion did prevail between the Members and the"' constituents. The electors in some places said of the Noble Lord's Reform Bill—it was not made as a final measure. It was but to create a Provisional Government until a new Constitution should be substituted.—(Cheeril, and No, no.) Not in the opinion of the lion. Merriber; he wishes it to le final, but his friends do not ; he means it to be eternal, but his constituents mean it merely as a shift, and a pretence to engraft on it a new and perfect revolution.—(Local cheers.) But, lie would ask, werii Gentlemen aware how long the Constitution—how lout the representative system had lasted ? Were they awarit that when Louis XVI. adopted the Constitution in France, he was described as having entered into a blessed union with his people, and as bring the restorer of the liberties of France? Were they aware, that in the same way a in the instance of the King of France, the name of our King was most unconstitutionally linked with that of tin• people and the projects of Ministers in the late contests? —(Cheers, and No, no.) That the name of the Kint —the Citizen King, as be was sometimes called—n. 4 used at the elec•iona, he declared to be notorious. To re sume, however, he asktd if they were aware, that in twi, }•ear: after Louis had, in 1792, formed this union with his people, after the attempt to erect the glorious ftbric ef the new Constitution, he was brought to the guillotine Were they aware that the march of mind, so great and eb highly lauded at that period, was outstripped by the marcii of atheism and irreligion, so that in 1793—in less than two years after—Christianity was abjured at the bar et the National Convention ?—(Continued cheers.) The Hon. Almaher for Knarrshorough said, go en conceding; but was the Hon. Gentleman aware of what thje French King, the French Nobles, and the French Clergy had gained by their concessions? The King con! , ceded his prerogative, and he perished on the scaffold. The Nobles conceded their titles, and their privileges, and their order—the Clergy their dignities and their lands-. 1. and their reward was exile, proscription, and death.-4. (Cheers.) Were Hon. Gentlemen aware of this—and would they, with such results submitted to their view, yet venture to form a similar body with that which had been the creator of such evil.—(Cheers.) Who would assert, that from the change contemplated in the elective body, the Monarchy would not receive a shock—(Hear, hear)..e. that the Church of England would be safe—or that ebb Peerage could continue to exist.—(Hear, hear.) Who could assert this, when the body who were to send Mem. hers to that House would send them not to delib.trate, but as delegates, to c irry into execution the arbitrary man= dates of an arbitrary and jacobinical constituency.—(Loup and bine-continued. cheers.) Were they to make a model of that splendid community, which, after a period of forty years, has not yet a Constitution.—(Hear, hear.) Were they, because the machinery of our Constitution was not such as satisfied the theories of political projectors, to try a sp , culative experiment—to cast away the so-called fri. co'ity if ages, and try a new speculative system of repre seatatirn, which had peen already tried three times in France—in the Constitution. of 1791, in that of LouiS XVIII., and in that of 1831—and yet left that splendid community in the same state of confusion which had prevailed for the nearly half century, the forty-five years, which had passed since it was promulgated.—(Cheers.) He, at least would never consent to this. He would miss no opportunity till he was cempelled to submit to that which no hurnan power on earth should ever compel hint to submit to.—( A burst of laughter.) The Hon. Gentlemen had doubtless been engaged with a repast more pleasant than listening to a discussion on the British Constitutions They had been pushing about the bottle with the same freedom as the Hon. Gentleman opposite had been decant 4 ing one borough into another.—( Hear, and laughter.) Reverting to the subject of the relation ht tween Membera and electors, the Hon. and Learned Gentleman then ob, served, that, to uee the words of the Hon. Member for Knareehorough, never would he submit to the degradatiori of buying his seat in that House, by a disgraceful sy4tern of falsehood, deception, and corruption ; and remarked; that although the Hon. Gentlemen opposite might have on a late occasion succeeded in getting into Parliament without wearing handcuffs, it was a piece of good ford tune which could never by possibility occur to than again. The honour and dignity of the Housed Counmon4 would he for ever disgraced, vilified, and degraded, if the present representation should be superseded by time Noble Lord's mockery of a Constitution.—(Much cheering.) Captain SPENCER had been no party to the display.: ing of the theoretical banners or ph:earth alluded to by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman who had just sat down.. He knew nothing of them—(llear)—nor bud he cant vassed the county in the manner stated by that Learned! Gentleman.—(Cheers.) Neither had he, on any occasion,i or in any speech which he delivered, alluded to the nib-, jects which that Hun. and Learned Gentlemen men-i tinned.—(Cheers.) • Sir C. WETHERELL rese to explain ; but amidst the, calls for Sir R Peel on one side, tied for Mr. Brougham, on the other, his obset vations were not heard. An Hoer. MEMBER. said, that the placards or banners,; such as had been described by the Hon. and Learned; Gentleman (Sir C. Wetherell), had been carried intoi Oxfordshire, from the neighbouring county of Worcester ; and that they had upon them the words " Spencer, and! no Corn Laws."---(Hear.) The Hon. Mr. FOLEY, when he canvassed the county, of Worcester during the late election, bad never been a party to the publishing, nor had he ever seen a placard with such an inscription as " Spencer, and no Corn Laws." Rut he had seen placards and banners coming from the other side and bearing the inscription of "No Popery," and in other respects calculated to produce excileteenr.— ( Cheers.) He acknowledged that there was, indeed, ~ strong feeling throughout that county during the contest. But it was the feeling of the people in favour of Reform— (Cheers) —and it was such, that wherever he presen'esl himself as the advocate of Reform, be was drawn from towekto town by the people in the manner of a triumph. Mr. W. BROUGHAM rose amidst calls for Sir R. Peel and cries of " hear, hear ! and " go on ;" and when he could he heard, was saying that he did not regret that the state menu; respecting the banners alluded to hail been made, as it gave the Hun. Members for Worcestershire an oppor. trinity of refuting the itnpotations which had been irt,t upon theta.—(Hear, bear.) Fer his part, considering that there were a vast number of Hon. Members desirous to speak, and still more who.wtre desirous to divide upon hey . :esedt crtieiltion; he sliould not 61,:e troubled the Muse vitl; any rern - arks; but that a 4 he had been sent to that goose by so numerous a constitneacy, to be the organ t',ir the expression, of their wishes 00 this question, in tompliance with the requisition of his Mitie.ty. he should .ot Vel justified in giving a Silent vote.—(flear, Lear.) With reep •ct to the statements of the Hon. and Lesined Gentleman opposite, Who had delivered his address with :o much energy and vehemence, that he (Mr. Brougham) bought his Learned Friend might better have chosen one f the Cooler months, sty Fructidor or Nivose, than to lave exerted himself in Thermidor, he (Mr. B.) would ,nly siy that he had been returned by a very large Con .titueney, and he could lay his band upon his he:irt and that he for one had never held out such hopes to'the morest of his constituents, as that the Reform Bill would Live them tea for a shilling a pound.—( Hear , hear.) He gad a right, therefore, to assume that other g enttemen qually hinouralde with himself had n ot reaorted to the irts which had been attributed to them, and which they otd denied—(Hear)—but that they Kati obtained the cotes of their constituents by arguments such as he hinpeif sad used. As to the complaint respectinz the recognition f the Birmingham Political Union, the lion. and Lsarned Gentleman must remember that thu House hay! itself sre eeived petitions from Political Associations; The petition of the Deputation from the Manchester Union bad been received with the approbation of the Houte‘;—( Hear.) There was no statute against the reception of petitibrig from those societies, although they were not corporate _ bodies. But sti.l more, the campla!nt in this instance was not well founded. The Prime Minister had, in fact, not written a letter in answer to the Political trnio.n, but to Air. Attwood, as a private individual. Ile (Mr. B.) did not know but that the •Hon. and Lelrne Gtotliman tl!uded to some answer as fabricated as the plarards and banners in Worcester.—(c' Cheers," and cries of " No, no.") A petition had also peen received I.y the House, without objection, from the Sheffield Cernmitte! ; arid , lee therefOre thought that his Learned Friend's objection to the recognition of political societies was no better fenetbd thin his ch urges respecting the improper arts resorted to by Hon. Gentlemen at tie lite elections.—(lle.tr, bear.) It n-ae gratifying to observe that the discussion hitherto had been carried on with so much good humour. Perhaps they might thank the intervel that -Thad elapsed since the last Session. If Hon. Gentlemen Lad not kept their uti jority, they had at least got back their temper. But some exceptions there certainly had I een : some if the borough interest had• become far more bitter than before ; per le,ps it was not to be wondered at that thole gen tlemen whose boroughs we re included is Sche tilliet4 A and B should feel a little sore, and the Scotch county Members, - as might be expected, excelled in fury, for few English coreorations were more snug than the largest Scotch counties. A Right Hon. and Gallant General, representing one of tin-sc counties, having no calls of bodic, of constituents for cell vaesing, appeared to have devoted his time, since the last dissolution, to the study of history. net, perhaps, very successfully, if we might judge from the views he had fertne I of the character of Oliver Cromwell. He had discovered that person to he a lawy.-r of many years standing, a judge in equity, a friend of eduCts tion and freedom, and an enemy of every kind of cant and hypocrisy.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. and Gallant General had asked, what did the people gain by the Bill ? He would reply, " all that the beroughmongers had lost"—all that had been drawn from the resources of jobbing, favour, influence, abuse, corruption, the people had gained—all the power of misrule, which a faction h a d lop, the country and the King had non ! The King, emancipated from th it pernicious faction, had gained a true llt itish throne in the hearts of his people. The people, no longer bent under a load of ,rbu e, at length breathed the free air of a pureand good Govern ment. He denied that the Ministers had ever eaid that the Bill would restore the representation to the attic in which it was at the beginning of the Monarchy. It his been said indeed, and truly said, that the Bill would establish the representation on the princlplet , on whch it was in tended to be established at the beginning of the Mo narchy.—(Clieers.) Now these principles were plain— 'n the m ..t in let times we .had nothirg but land owners ; and how were the Parliaments cemposed? Of Birons,who were summoned ratiotte tenurce who held per Baroniun, and were bound to attend the King to assist him in council, touching the et-Fairs of tile realm. TI ea came the. Knights of shires, chosen by all the representatives, in fact, of the land, for, at this time, there was no trade or interest separated from land to he represented. Soma after a mercantile interest arises, and it becomes necessary to settle the staple ; for that express purpose (in 27 Edward III.); the mercantile towns were summoned, rinfl, about the same time, a summons to twelve sea-ports to send masters of vessels to advise with the King touching the defence, and preservation of the realm, and the shipping interest. Can any man say that the principle here acted upon, was net that of adapting the representation to the exigencies and cheurnstances of the times? It had been con e tended that all boroughs were summoned originally on account of trade, and because of the increase of their mercantile importance. This, as a general prin ciple, might be pushed too far, because it might be said that such a town as Boston was not theta summoned, although its importani.e could not be deni. d. Still this would he no answer to his position, that the principle ou which our ancestors acted was that of admitting the different interests of the country to a share in the legislative as sembly. At this distance of time we Iced little to guide us as matter of strict proof, or historcal evidence, but the cir cumstance of the ship masters alone proved the case. Much had been said to show, that the commercial inter-seat would not be represented in the Refereed Parliament; but they who said so overlooked the great portion of the commercial interest which was iiicluded in the portent class to which this Bill would give for the first time a complete representation—be meant the middle clav—the strength, the prop of the State—the base of the column upon which alone rests thee:Vete and security of the Corinthian capital. Follawiag this ancient and right principle, could we deny to this class, to modern times, r voice in the choice of the representatives? It had been objected to this Bill that it would create a republic, which, by whatever name it might be called, would, in effect, put an end to the Monarchy —(Hear, hear.) Now, if abet were the f.ct— if the free expression of the sentiments of the people in that House would put an end to the Monarchy, it must be assumed that the people of this country wish to put an end to it.—(Hear, hear.) How otherwise could it he said that the full re presentation of their sentiments in that House would lead:to the overthrow of the Monarchy ?—(Bear.) Was there a period of our history which did not show that the People were disposed to monarchy? Was it not the fact, even when :they had before their eyes the example of Cromwell, of - whim Clarendon admitted, that under him England was not only triumphant abroad, hut well governed at home—was it not the fact that, even with that example before their eyes the people of England re ceived -with open fume the son of the former King, although his character was stained with the most odious vices ; and that in despite of his profligacy, they retained him, and they would have retained his successor but for his Catholicism ; for it was. that, and not his arbitrary principles that caused his downfall ! Did they not very recently shew their attachment to Monarchy, when our late revered Princess was borne to the tomb ? With these examples, the House had been called upon nut to listen to the voice of the people, lest it should be said that they were influenced by fern There was one fear that no wise or honest roan would hesitre to avow, and that was, the fear of losing the affections of the people.—(Cheers.) That treasure they had not long been seeking, and hid at length found. Let them cherish it as the b-st security against any poli tical evils that might beset them ; and by so doing they would take counsel, not of fear, but of wisdinn.—(Hear, leas ) Sir G. MURRAY thought that the House would not think that he asked too much when he requested to be allowed an opportunity of replying in a few words to the serious charges brought against him by the Hun. Gentle man opposite (Mr. Brougham.) Those charges were not the less grave because they had been condensed in a few words. The Hon. Gentleman had charged him (Sir G. Murray) with having lost his temper. Well, that was an in firmity to which any other Hon. Gentleman might be liable ; but fur his part be did not recollect that he had ever lost his temper in that House, during the present or any former discuseion.—(Hear.) If .he had ever fallen into such infirmity, no man could regret it more than he would himself.—( Hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had also charged him with ignorance of history. He had always h4l a very active life, and that might be his excuse if his knowledge of history was not as accurate as that possessed by other gentlemen who had bad the advantage over him or greater leieure. But he really was nut aware that he had on the preceding night made any historical mistake — (Cheers, and cries of " No, no")—and perhaps there might be some room for charging the Hon. Gentleman himself with ignorance of history when he said that there had .never been in this country any . indication of a desire thr a ,republic.—(Cheers, and " No, no.") The lion. Gentleman's next charge against him was, that he dr o p a parallel between -a lawyer (and that, too, b an Equity dodge) and the usurper Oliver Cromwell.—.( es r r o s tri ft e sate Ministetial ,sine, .araewered, by " No, n f nor s upposed the Groin. I°Hold Elora ) He t a d- never said