The Sun. — London, England, 1856-03-04 00:00:00

or me, expressed himself glad to see me, but desired me to go back to my ship." The day previously I had also been directed from his lord ship not to come to the front till perfectly recovered. "I then asked him if be would pardon my offering an opinion relative to the state of the armies, &c. He said he would. I offered my poor opinion in deep earnestness, and, at any rate, sincerely. He is not a man who dis cusses, at least not with those in my situation, I believe. But he appeared by no means displeased—and I think, possibly, was not altogether uninfluenced by it. This, however, I may be entirely mistaken in. There are in fact, as you know also, two chiefs—French and English ; and, although most true, faithful, and cordial, yet inevitably different policies to be considered. And I believe the French have momentous reasons for their course of pro ceedings, and their course, apparently, must not be de viated from by the British." The grounds upon which the last sentence was written will at a future time appear. To enter into a strategical discussion at present, while things are still unsettled, would be most objectionable. (Hear.) I only hope that I have not been wanting in my explanations. (Cheers.) Lord C. HAMILTON—I hope that, under the pecu liar circumstances, the house will favour me with its ate tention for a few minutes while I refer to what took place on Friday night. I can with unaffected sincerity assure the hon. member for Westminster that I never intended by any expression of mine to reflect in the slightest degree on his known and well-tried gallantry, or in any way to call in question his brilliant courage. (Cheers.) The very words which I addressed to the hon. and gallant member when I spoke to him with reference to the matter+ now under consideration are so fresh in my memory that I can repeat them to the house. I told him that his courage had been so well established on many a hard-fought field that any man who would cast an aspersion on it would but cover himself with confu sion. (Cheers.) It is clear, therefore, that I could not have myself intended to take any such course. All that I desired to impute to the hon. and gallant gentleman was a certain want of fair play in the attack he made the other evening on a gallant relative of mine. But now that the house has heard the remarks which the hon. and gallant officer has thought fit to offer with re ference to a somewhat remarkable statement made by m e on Friday evening, I trust that I also may be allowed to say a few words in explanation. (" Hear, bear, !" and "Oh, oh !") lam sensible that in so doing I shall be trespassing on the rules that govern our proceedings, but I venture to hope that tinder the peculiar circum stances of the case the house will extend me its indul gence—(hear) —and the more particularly when I assure them that I will not trespass at any length on their attention, nor 'deviate from what I believe to be necessary for establishing the simple fact that the statement which Imale on Fri-lay evening I did not make without believing that I had good ,grounds for it. (Cheers, and cries of "Order !") Ido not ask the house to declare that I was justified in my opinion. All I ask is that they will permit me to liy before them and the country certain facts ; and, having done so, I will leave to theta and the country to decide whether or not I was so justified. (Filar.) lam apprehensive of being thought to occupy the position of one who lightly and without sufficient foundation has made a very remarkable statement afflicting in some degree the military character of the hon. and gallant member. (No, nu !) I will not refer in detail to the language I used the other even ing;. but I will show that my as -ertion, that on the night of the ,:th of November, the night after the battle el Inkerman, the hon. and gallant member counselled and strongly and repeatedly urged the immediate embarka tion of the British army and the leaving of our guns and our French allies to the mercy of the enemy, was not wholly without foundation. (Cries of " Order !" and " Oh, oh !") I will real to the house the evidence on which that statement was founded (No, no I) I kohl in my hand. (Order, order !) If the house will not bear with me—if they think it right that I should remain in the position of having made a state ment for which I cannot give grounds or assign reasons I of course muet acquiesce in their decision and resume my seat. (Order, order.) Sir D. L. EVANS—I be_r the noble lord to under stand that I never charged him with having made a statement which he did not believe to he correct. lam ready to enter into any explanation why I raid this or thought that, but I e at it to the noble lord and to the house whether it is desirable that I should he compelled to take such a course? (Hear, hear.) I put it to the house whether it is possible that a question such as this should be disposed of by a single statement ? Ido not, think that the noble lord should continue his observa tions unless it is understood that I shall be permitted, in reply, to discus the question in all its bearings. Tne SPEAKER—I hope that the noble lord will not attempt anything so irregular as the revival of a former debate. (Hear.) It is competent for any hon. member to offer a personal explanation of anything that may have fallen from him on a previous occasion, should be think fit to do so ; but it is against the rules of the house that he should revive a former debate. (Heal.) Mr. A. H. GORDON rose amid cries of "Oh, oh," and - ".Order," and said—l have no intention to prolong this discussion ; but I hope I may be permitted to stat e , on my own behalf and on that of my gallant relative, the great satisfaction with which I hare listened to the speech of the hon. and gallant member for Westminster, to whom I offer my best thanks for the manner in which he has this evening expressed himself with regard to cer tain words used by him on a former occasion. For his complimentary allusions to myself I know not how to thank him ; but I beg that he will do me the justice to believe that I am not ungrhteful. Having said so much, I venture to think that the hon. and gallant gentleman wilt thank me for taking this opportunity to bring under his notice another expression—(oh, oh, and laughter)—used by him in the course of the same debate. (No, no.) I would appeal to the indulgence of the house while tres passing for a single moment on its attention. (Loud cries of "Order!' LordPALMERSTON—You, eir, hare laid down the rule which, unless on very extraordinary and exceptional occasion; ought to govern our proceedings, viz., that it is irregular, and at variance with good order, to refer in ons:debate to what took place in another. (Hear.) Ca-- curnstanoes will no doubt occasionally arise as in the case of the speech delivered this evening by my hon, and gallant friend the member for Westminster, which jus tify. a departure from this principle ; but I am sure that the house will agree with me that the explanation offered by the hon. and gallant general ought to be satisfactory to the feelings of all those who might have conceived themselves in any degree affected by the remarks which in the warmth of the moment and in the eagerness of debate, he, as often happens with hon. members, may have made during the discussion on Friday evening. (Hear.) This being so, I cannot but think that, after the handsome explanation of the hon. and gallant officer, the house will best consult the feelings and character of all concerned and act in the manner mast consistent with its usual practice , by now allowing the matter to drop. (Cheers from all parts of the house.) Mr. DISRAELI—WhiIe expressing my entire con currence with the noble lord, I may be permitted to ob serve that the speech of the hon. and gallant member for: Westminster appears to me to have removed the painful feelings which pervaded the house in conse quence of his remarks the other evening. (Hear, hear.) I have listened with extreme satisfaction to the observations he has this evening offered ; and I am sure that the cordial and generous manner in which he addressed himself to the various points, requiring expla nation must be appreciated on both sides of the house. (Hear, hear.) Having said this, I feel that it is due to my noble friend the member for Tyrone (Lord C. Hamilton), to add that there ought to pe no mistake as to his position in this matter. (Hear.) The house will, I am confident, be unanimously of opinion that no im putation whatever rests upon my noble friend of having made a statement which he did not believe to be author. ised by the facts. Nobody can doubt that my noble friend made it upon what appeared to him—and what may hereafter prove to he—sufficient evidence. He cause down this evening prepared to produce the evi dence on which he founded his assertions ; but the house cannot fail to perceive that statements of this kind can not, according to the rules which govern our debates, be satisfactorily disposed of by any discussion that may take place here. It is possible that sonic analogous ex ressiens—or, it may be, that the identical expressions —quoted by my noble friend may have been used by a gallant officer in the position of the hon. and gallant general the member fur Westminster ; but to form an accurate judgment on those words, and to arrive at a safe conclusion as to the propriety of hie conduct in using them, we must have before us certain details which are not within our reach, and which cannot be available for the purposes of popular discussion. The opinion of an experienced and veteran officer like the hon. and gallant member for Westminster must of course have been looked to with interest on a question of such importance ; but the precise value of his opinion, in this parCcalar in stance, must depend on the manner in which it was ex pressed, the circumstances under which it was offered, and a thousand matters of detail of which it is net possible that we should have a, competent knowledge. (Cheers.) Tuere is A general sentiment of satisfaction that the hon. andgal lant member should have come down to the house to re mote, by a frank and manly explanation, the painful isi preesions produced by his remarks on Friday evening ; and I am sure there is also a general concurrence of opinion on both sides of the house that my noble friend ;he mem ber for Tyrone lies under no imputation of having made a rash statement, or one which he did not believe himself capable of justifying. This being the state of the case, and it being obvious that no satisfactory result can f ollow from the prolongation of this discussion, I trust that it will proceed no further. The hon. and gallant officer has male his explanation, and it is, I think, the univer sa/ feeling of the house that the matter was revived only to be terminate , ' for ever in a manner agreeable to all par►ies. (Loud cheers.) The eubj-ct wag then permitted to drop, and it was not without a smile at the violence and rapidity of the contrast that the house at once passed from the fierce excitements of the camp to the humble sorrows of under gardeners. TAX ON UNDER GARDENERS; On the motion for going into committee of supply, Colonel 11A.RCOUIZT called the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the mode in which the tax on under gardeners was assessed and levied. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCREQUER said the question turned on the construction of a clause in the A'sSessed Tax Act passed is 1853, whereby one guinea was assessed for a gardener, and half-a -1044 for under-gardener, and the difficslty was the interpretation of that clause as to what constituted an under-gardener. The interpretation of I enact of Parliament did not rest with this house, but with the proper tribunals of the country.Parliamen t could watch the operations of acts of Parliament, and if necessary repeal or modify them. He was of opinion that 4 ' construction that had been put on the clause - laW officers of the Crown was the corn sufficient grounds had been shown fe of the house with reference . 07 the Arc ono, Nn • the interference the F t ct in quasi . /Ai y 'l, • .. ~~!/ „ . tion. The Chancellor of the Exchequer the n took occasion to put right an injustice he had unintentionally committed with respect to a very distinguished gentleman, whose writings he quoted on a former debate, namely, Mr. Tooke, on the "Bank Act of 1844," and expressed his regret at having misrepre sented that gentleman. Ollit RELATIONS WITH PERSIA. Mr. LAYARD said that. before the chair was vacated he wished to call the attention of the house to the state of our relations with Persia. His reason for doing so was, that in his opinion we were aboutto enter upon a quarrel with that power, with the right against us, a quarrel which once in we could not get out of, and which if engagedinmight lead to disastrous results in Asia. He knew that eastern ques tions were unpalatable to the house, a most extraordinary fact, seeing that England was one of the greatest of the Eastern Powers. lie should have brought the question forward a week ago, had he not hoped that it would bo settled and publicity avoided, but hearing that the autho rities wore about to take hostile steps against Persia, and that a number of vessels had sailed from India to Bnshire, he felt that he could refrain no longer. Three years ago he had continuously called attention to the state of affairs in Central Asia, and what he then anticipated had, to a certain extent, bean realised. The house would recollect that he had almost bored them ea the subject of Kars— (hear)—and had directed particular attention to the Per sian mission, which ho then believed to be in inefficient hands. He believed that the hon. member for Poole had intended to give a notice respecting our mission to Persia, but the hon. member had unfortunately been dragged into the Government Maelstrom in which so many valuable mem bers were shipwrecked. He (Mr. Layard), while beaming testimony to the ability of Mr. Murray, thought it unfor tunate that at a moment like the present, when our in fluence cud interest ought to be sustained, a gentleman unacquainted with the manners or customs of the country should be sent'on a mission to the Shah. The danger that he then contemplated had since come to pass. He believed it would be found that they had got into a serious quarrel, owing to the want of those qualifications in our Minister which he had pointed out as necessary that a British nli nister to the court of Persia should possess. He would state the facts briefly, as he understood them. He might be met by the Government with the objection thatbe ought first to have asked for the papers relating to the trans action before he brought the subject forward for discussion. That was the answer an independent member always re ceived when he ventured to call attention to any subject connected with our foreign relations in time for some step to be taken by which war might be everted. But if he had moved for papers, he would have been told that it would be inconvenient to the Public) service to produce them while the question was Stilt pending, and the proba bility was that before they were produced the country would find itself embarked in another war. He would state the case then as he had beard it from persons who were friendly to the British mission in Persia on the one hand, and from those who might be said to take the view friendly to the Persian Government on the other. Ho must, say, however, that we stood in this matter very mu c h in the position of the lion iu the fable—for while the British Government had the power of stating their view of the case by means of blue books, parliamentary papers, and explanations in Parliament, the Government of Persia, hav ing neither blue books nor a Parliament, were obliged to submit to having the story told by their opponents in their own- way. It appeared, then, that a certain Al ira-s Hi/shins —a Persian subject—who had some dispute with his govern ment in reference to pecuniary matters, anticipating that he might meet with ill-usage, took refuge in the British . embassy. Whether the man was really indebted to the Government of Persia, as was alleged, he would not stop to inquire, as it made no difference in the result. There was a law in Persia that a man accused of any crime might take refuge and obtain sanctuary either in a mosque, under a gun, or in a foreign mission. This person took refuge at the English mission. Whether Mr. Murray, our minister, was there at the time, or whether the mission was then in the bands of Mr. Thompson, the charge d'atfaires, he was not certain ; but, at all events, if Mr. Murray was not there when the man took refuge, he found bins these when he returned. The difficulty mv is to get rid of him. Ho could not turn him into the street, for that would be to ex pose him to the ill-treatment and injury from which he had claimed the sanctuary of the mission ; so Mr. Murray hit upon the plan of nsming him British agent. The Persian Government then said, "That is ell very well so long as this man is kept by you at the mission ; but as he owes us money, has infringed our laws, and is our sub ject, while we respect the rights of the mission by not Mo lesting him theme, wo will seize him the moment we find him elsewhere." This Mires fir/shim, it appeared, hail married a princess —a member of the blood royal of Persia —a lady, however, who did not hole every high reputation for virus or morality. St • was seized by her brother, who would not allow her to go with Hasbim, and by doing so probably bring scandal upon the royal house. net ho had a right to seize her under the circumstances he believed was unquestionable. The British Minister demanded the resto ration of the lady to her husband, and the demand gave rise to a bitter correspondence, in which threats were used, and not only the Minister, bat the Shah himself, he must admit, had indulged in the most unjustifiable language, in a letter reflecting upon the personal character of the British representative. The consequence was that Mr. Murray sent an ultimatum to the Shah's Governinent, in which he demanded, first, that the lady should be ,given unconditionally; secondly, that Mirza Hashim should be recognised as the British agent ; and thirdly, that the Shah should apologise to the British mission. To this the Persian Government refused to consent. Mr. Murray then further extended the time for the acceptance of the ulti matum, but the Persian Government still declining to com ply with the conditi ons h o h au l e d d own h i s flag and left Teheran. Now he thought the house would agree with him, that if this statement of facts was correct, we had neither justice nor right on our side in the present quarrel, and he must say that those who upon Persian affairs were entitled to be regarded as the beat authorities were of that opinion. Now what was the effect of Mr. Murray's demands? In the first place, he demanded that the lady should be delivered up to the British mission. Everybody who knew anything of the Eastern nations' would know that if there was one subject upon which the people of these countries were more jealous and sensitive than any other, it was their women. The differences which occurred some years ago between Russia and Persia erase from the murder of an attachim of the Russian legation, in consequence of its being suspected, he believed, that a Persian woman had been inveigle) into the Russian mission; and it was also genesally admitted that the original cause of the Affghanietan war was the suspicion that a woman of Cannahar had been inveigled away by some persons attached to the British mission there. The Shah, then, was perfectly justified in refusing this demand, The second demand was, that this Mires Hashine should be recognised as the British agent. Nothing had produced more evil than the system which had grown up of late of protection of native subjects by the European missions. In s Turkey, whore up to a short time ago this system prevailed to a great extent, any man being able fo r a f ew pi as t res t o fi n d a refuge in the foreign missions, whatever crime he might have com mitted, he was happy to say a considerable alteration for the better had taken place ; but in Persia it went on as before. So far as be could understand this man had no right to British protection ; but Mr. Murray not only extended that protection to him, but demanded that he should be recognised as a British agent. Now by the short treaty of 1841, consisting only of two articles, it was distinctly stated in Article 2 that we should have no com mercial agent in any part of Persia, except at Tubberan and Teheran. It might be urged that this man was not a commercial agent ; but if he was not a commercial, Mr. Murray must have claimed for him the privileges of a diplomatic agent; but how diplomatic business could be •arried on with a foreign government through the medium of a subject of that government who had himself quar relled with it, and was accused by it of contravention of the law, he i could not understand. (Hear, hear.) But he (Mr. Layard) doubted whether wo had any right to have a diplomatic agent there ; and on no ground, therefore, as far as he could discover, was Mr. Murray justified in de mantling the second condition of his ultimatum. The third condition demanded, viz., the- apology from the Shah, was even more indefensible. He might have been might in demanding an apology from the Minister who had used unjustifiable expressions in his correspondence, but he had no right to ask for an apology from the king, whose dignity would be lowered by making as apology. They ought to assume that the Minister was responsible for the acts of the king, and his apology ought to have been satisfactory. The Shah was not so much to blame in the matter. Ho (Mr. Layard) did not mean to say that his conduct towards Mr. Murray was in all respects justifiable, but when hesaw this woman—his relative—de man d e d by the British Minis ter, he was likely to entertain some suspicion, and might reasonably ask, What can the British mission want with my female relative ? " (Laughter.) Such was the origin of this quarrel, to support which Government imal takes the first step towards entering upon a war I with Persia. He trusted, however, that the House of Commons ann the country would raise their voices so unmistakeably in condemnation of such a perversion of justice as was attempted in the matter, that war might yet be averted. (Hear.) It might be said that, having commenced this quarrel, such was the character of the Eastern nations, that to withdraw would be fatal to our influence. That was a false and most pernicious doc trine, and one that had gone far to ruin our character in the East for honest and fair dealing, and had led in India to the infliction of an enormous amount of injustice. He (Mr. Layard) had hail as much experience as most men of the Eastern character—expetiense derived not from mere reading or from official position, bat from having travelled and mingled amongst them, and be was happy to believe that be had obtained the contideece and good. will of all with whom he had corns is contact. Bat the reason was, that he had always done by them what he c insidered just and right. When an Eastern form l that you did just and right by him, he respected you and confided in you; but if you (lid not he had no confidence in you, and the present position of the British name in the east was *wire to the infraction of that principle, and that only. Th a ne was another point for censideration. If we enterelupon a war with Persia, upon whom would the whole burden of it fall? Upon our fellow subjects in India, who were already borne dawn by the weight of taxes, and who, as had been shown, were subjected to the torture to compel them to give up to the Government a portion of the produce of their half cultivated fields. He would ask further, was it politic to proceed with this war? (Hear, hear.) Wes this the time to make as enemy of Persia? If we sent a 13 i eT v t i t y e° ri the towards fleet to Btishire they might Make the Persians yield ; but Tend that produce amity on the part of the Persian nas n t t h ra is ry c , o innwtroyttlivdhcircehatme iagphrtenjtsierobiteadrea. (1- (Hear, hear.) They had heard. t - about to b I . peace was In a had e a cone Concluded with Russia. ems told that abroad, abandoned all her !leheines of aggrandisement and s about to Mira her attention to internal improverneute ; but the history of that everybody who knew anything et liable it was that szeunt must be aware hew ilnpro policy whi c h, f or more lV ry d give up, in one day, tho grand'aim of th e Russian r an a contrry, had been the I Sho might no t aga i n, for eaz,e/ It was imp oss ibl e. (R oan) repose of Europe--she n time t o come, threaten the 'gist withdr Lion, but it wou ld b e only teen aw b e f ore t h e coali- I better able to me e t it, and then she she might prepare to b e whole of Europe. (man) But a 'would aga i n d efy the than in E uro p e th at R ussia would I p v" e in 4 " i n rather I seen as she w as i n a con di tion to do 'ars :J her policy as grudge, and she owed England a • -0. She owed Asia a in Central Asie that she woum- tinudge, and it would be could be mere favourable a " 1 . seek her revenge. What than a war between E. , ' .0 Russian operations in Asia of nnY success in „wand and Persia? The importance nations of tbs ASIA was infinitely greater amongst the In ma " - - onst than any victory gained in Europe. ; re. parts of Central Aide the name of Sebastopol had i .r been heard of • but Kars was known everywhere. Though the rerched a fall of gebastopol might never have them, the news that Kars had surrendered to Russia, and that an English general had been captur ed ,t i and paraded all through Georgia as a prisoner, they mig h t depend upon it, en , had spread all over Asia, and Russian agents, they might importance of the be sure , would take carols) magnify the , „44, THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1856. victory. (Hear.) Then, if they had read the accounts of what had recently taken place at Herat, they would see that Russia was already making it be believed that there was a quarrel between Persia and this country ; and it was more than likely that, instigated and aided by Russia, Persia might make a descent upon our possessions in Cen tral Asia. He was not an alar a peist in reference to Russia, but it could not be concealed that Russia, by pushing on the nations of Asia to attack us, might disturb our Indian possessions to such a degree that we should have to use force to defend them, or to maintain a large standing army at an enormous expense and entailing a heavy weight of taxation for their protection, while all those sctemes of internal improvements—of railways, roads, whale, and other works, from which so m uc h b ene fit t o India wee ex pected—must either be abandoned altogetheror indefinitely postponed. And to increase the danger the Government were throwing Persia into the arms of Russia, making her pos sibly a participator in the quarrel, and having both Persia and Russia for ever after our enemies in the East. - That Russia, who at this moment, he had hoard, was making a movement amongst the Christian population of Khurdistan, would be but too happy to avail herself of the opportunity, there could bo but little doubt whenever she could do so with advantage. If we had a war with Russia in Central Asia we could not go to France or Austria (supposing the present negotiations resulted in peace), and say, " Help us." " No," they would say, " that is your affair; that is a matter referrin g entirely to your Indian empire ; we have nothing to do with it, you must fight it yourselves." If two years ago Ministers had taken steps by sending a force to Persia, to compel her to act against Russia, the case would have been different. That might have been a fair matter of debate ; but now to send a force against Persia upon such a quarrel as this, would be to destroy British influence in Central Asia altogether. He believed the present Government had really the interests of England at heart, and he entreated them nut to give way to any pressure, came from whatever quarter it plight, to precipitate the country into a needless and an unjust war. There were still means of getting out of the difficulty—not by arbitration, for he thought it would be as fatal to refer this dispute to the arbitration of France as it would be to send an expedition to Bushire. He would not explaiu what his pan was, because he knew it would net be adopt ed. He therefore proposed to leave it to the sagacity of the noble lord (Palmerston) ; but he entreated the noble lord to consider well before he plunged this country into a war which might be followed by the meet prejudicial consequences. It was not too late to countermand the expedition, and he urged upon the noble lord te do so, and to consider whether some moans might not he found fur bringing the quarrel to a peaceful issue. (Hoar e hear.) Lord PALMERSTON—I think, sir, that the course the hon. gentleman has pursued is not that which is the best calculated to promote the interests of the country. (Hear.) I think, when a question of a difficult nature arises be tween the Government of this country and a foreign Go vernment, it is not generally conducive to the interests of this country that an hon. member, however great may be his talents or his means of acquiring information with regard to the quarter of the world in which such difference has arisen, when ha must necessarily bo most imperfectly informed of the facts of the case I think nothing oen he less conducive to the inte rests of this country than that an hon. member so situ ated should get up in the House of Commons, as the bon. member has done, and pronounce unhesitatingly and authoritatively that his own Government is in the wrong and the foreign Government is its the right, and thus cre ate obstacles to the satisfactory adjustment of tee matters in dispute. For it is manifest, that if the Government with whom the difference has arisen find persons in this house who, from their character and knowle lgo are enti tled to express au opinion, pronounce that opinion in their favour and against the Government of their own country —it is manifest that the amicable arrangement of such difference must be rendered infinitely more difficult than it would otherwise be. I will not follow the example of the hon. member so far as to go into any argument upon this question, but I must be allowed to set right some of the statements ho has put forward. This Mire% Hashim was undoubtedly a subject of Persia, and in the civil ser vice of that country. Ho applied for an increase of salary, which his sovereign, through his Minister for Foreign Af fair s, refused to give him, saying, "If you are not satisfied go where you like and get employment elsewhere, if you can on more favourable terms." The man conceived, and I think he was justified in so doing, that this was in effect a dismissal from the Persian service, and as is customary in Ca.C9 where a person is in fear of being subjected to persecution from the Persian Government, ho took sanc tuary in the British mission. This was before Mr. Murray arrived, and while Mr. Thempeon was charged with the conduct of the business of the mission. The hon. gentle man said it was a'very objectionable practice, that the sub ject of an indep indent state should be able to withdraw himself from the jurisdiction of his own Government and take refuge with the Minister of a foreign power. No thing in principle or in practice can be more objectionable, but it happens to be the custom in Persia. (Hear, hear.) It was not a custom introduced by the British Govern ment, but it is a custom of very long standing—it is practise 1 with regard to all foreign missions at Te heran, and is fully acknowledged by the Persian Govern ment itself—not perhaps as a legitimate and legal right, but one which they are not entitled to dispute, and which has been acquiesced in by them time after time with regard to the missions of all foreign nations. (Hear.) Well this Mirze Haelsien, being thus under the jurisdiction of the English mission, Kr. Murray arrives at Teheran, and finds that in consequence of the animosity which it was found the Persian Government entertained towards the man it would be better that he should be removed from Teheran and employed elsewhere, and it was proposed that he should be sent to Shiraz. The hon. gentleman had referred to a treaty showing that the British Government had no right to employ a consul a Shiraz; but for a very long time we have had an agent there for commercial and other purposes, not invested with consular rights, but merely as an agent. When Mr. Murray proposed to employ him there, the Per sian Government threatened that they would arrest him. Against this threat Mr. Murray remonstrated, and con tended that the right of protection did not cease in conse quence of the transfereecs of the party from Teheran to ohirsz. While the question was pending, the Persian *Go vernment seized the mass's wife. The bon: gentleinan is under slight error in regard to this lady. She is not, as he supposes, a relation of the Persian royal family, but of one •of the many wives of the Shah. She is a counexion but not a relation, therefore. The principle of protection has always been considered, and properly so, as extending not to the person merely but to everything that belongs to him. (" Oh, eh," from Mr. Layard.) I must .beg the hon. gentleman's pardon, but such is the face : it extends to the property and the family of the person protected, and Mr. Murray consequently demanded that the lady should be given up to her husband, who was under the pro tection of the British Minister. (Hoar, hear.) This demand gave rise to a correspondence in which, as the hon. gentleman acknowledged, there were some very important letters written by the Persian minister very unbecoming and very insulting letters—and the Shah himself, who I must say most unnecessarily joined in that correspondence, in his communications, showed very clearly that he had not studied the Persian book of polite letter-writing—(hear)—for his letters were conehed in language most undignified and unbecoming for a person occupying a throne. The hon. gentleman went into a va riety of matters to which I will not here refer, lent he says that Mr. Murray demanded an apology from the Shah. Now that is not the case, but be did demand tho with drawal of the offensive letter. As I said before, lam not going to enter enter into the correspondence which has taken place between the two Governments, because it would be most inconvenient and improper to do so while the question in dispute is still pending; but the hen. gen tleman says we at are war with Persia. That, too, is not the fact. (Hear.) What has taken piece is this : Mr. Mur ray, foreseeing that the violence of the Persian Govern ment might possibly lead them to molest British subjects residing at Bushire, requested the Government of Bombay to send two small vessels to the Persian Gulf, not as a hos tile demonstration against Persia, but merely to protect British interests there. That is the state of the case. The matter is still pending bet weea the two Governments; and under these circumstances, I think the house will concur with me in thinking that no advantage can arise from en tering into a dissuasion at present. The hon. gentleman has stated that which is quite true, that in a war with this country and Russia, Persia might be an important element either in our scale or that of Russia ; but Ide not think ho has evinced great political sagacity iu saying that the wise coarse would have been 2 years ago, to send a force from British India to compel Persia to take part with us against Russia. - Mr. LA.YARD—I said that would have beet a debate able question. Lord PALIIERSTON—Very debateable indeed. (A laugh.) To go to war with a power to compel them to join with us in a war against another, would lee no doubt very debateable on the one side, but not at all debateable on the other. (lieu%) On the contrary, it apkeared to as that, considering the position of Persia as continuous with the frontier of Russia, her distance from this country, her relative weakness, and that she could not embark in a war with Russia without great assistance from us both in troops and in money, the wisest advice we could offer to her was to remain neutral and not commit herself to a war with Russia when we might not be in a position to afford her the protection which in that case she would have been entitled to expect. (Rear.) I hope the house will not think it necessary to pursue a discussion on this unfortu nate difference that has arisen between this country and Persia at the present moment. I quite agree with the hon. gentleman thatin dealing with these Asiatic countries it is important to see that in any atop you take you are in the light, end that you should not put forward your de mand if wrong—but the hon. gentleman is also aware hat nothing answers less with those Asiatic countries than to ir sub itto wrong when put forward by themselves. (Flear.) THE REPORTED PRELIMINARY PEACE TREATY. Mr. DISRA.ELI—As a statement has been made public to-day upon a very important subject, I trust the noble lord will allow me to put a question to him in reference to it, even though I have not given him notice of my inten tion to de so. It is stated in the publio.papers of this, day that a preliminary treaty of peace had been signed by the plenipotentiariee at the conference at Paris ; and it would be very satisfactory, not only to this house but to the Country generally, if the noble lord could assure us of the fact, or if not, that he should give us come authoritative explanation as to the state of the negotiations. Lord PALMERSTON—Sir, the house and the public are well aware that certain conditions—certain offers ware proroged soma time ago by Austria to Russia with the Consent of England and France, as conditions which ware to serve as foundation for a treaty of peace between the belligerents. Those conditions were at first accepted by Russia with a reserve, but afterwards, the acceptance not being agreed to by Austria, they were accepted uncondi tionally. They were accepted pure and simple. These ar ticles were afterwards recorded in a protocol at Vienna, and signed by the plenipotentiaries of England, France, Austria, and Russia. I am not sure about Turkey, but I believe the Turkish plenipotentiary had not at that time received his instructions. When the conference met at, Paris it was agreed in a protocol at the first meeting that the previous protocol signed at Vienna, embracing the ar ticles accepted by Russia, should hav3 the force and value of a preliminary treaty of peace without going through the form of a separate preliminary treaty, and that the plenipotentiaries should at once proceed to the discussion of the conditions. That is the fact of the matter. In one sense aprelireinary treaty of peace has been signed, that is, the articles recorded in the propositions accepted by Rus ea at Vienna hay, the force and virtue of a preliminary treaty. No formal preliminary treaty of peace has been signed, but in substance that is the effect. Mr. DISRAELI—When was that protocol agreed to. Lord P.A.LIIERSTON—I am not quite sure, but one day' last week. THE PARTNERSHIP AND JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES BILLS. Mr. LOWE, in reply to questions from Mr. Hattie aud Mr. Spooner, stated that he was not sure that he should be able to bring these bills forward this side of Easter. SUPPLY. The house then went into Committee of Supply. Mr. MONS EL L moved for a vote of 503,000/. additional on account, towards defraying the cost of the land troops at home and abroad, exclusive of India. Colonel BOLDERO said there was no intention, he be lieved, on the part of honourable members on his side of the house, to oppose the votes that would be asked for, but he called attention to the manner in which the estimates were presented to the house. No one but a person very conversant with the subject could under stand them. Ho suggested that in future the esti mates should be made out in sections, each section containing the outlay necessary for one particular depart ment, such as for the Commissariat, barracks, stores, tee. Ho called attention to the statements contained in the estimates. Amongst the rest that of a grant of 246,716 men, including officers and Non-commiersioned officers, were asked for at an expense of 451 per man, net pay, and ef 126,950 militia, at a net pay of 251. per rnau. He ad verted to the manner in which the Land Transport Corps had been inserted in the estimates, which conveyed an erroneous opinion, and remarked that he would rather that branch of the service had / retained its own name — that of the Royal Waggon Service, but change and cen tralisation seemed to be the system of the Government. Ho objected to the corn of 1,500/. a-year being paid to the superintendent of the Engineer, Sappers, and Miners, which. was more than that paid to a general officer coin mandis,g a division; and he thought the exeuee for it, that he was a person conversant with railways, not D. valid reesonlur his been paid such a large sum, especially as they had men in the service like Colonel Wynne, who were capable of undertaking and effectually discharging such duties as the superintendent had to perform. (Hear, hear.) He next notice i that the sum of 3J0,000'. had been taken for the Turkish Contingent, but no number as to men had been entered. He condemned the manner in which the Government conducted their affairs at Alder- ' shott, wl ion as a place for a permanent camp, he obj •cttel to, anti asked that the house might its future be supplied, under their respective heads, with the coat of cone - traction at this place. The Government appeared to him to be ex pending -money there foolishly, such as building huts and then panic% them down again, Ric. He objected to the princlple o: depositing so large an amount of stores in one tlacci. The effect of such a course had been exemplided 1 in the ease of the fire at the Tower in 1341, when be -1 torceu 490,000 and 50 ~ 000 muskets had been destroyed. 1 In spite of that warning the Geveremeut were pur suing the same plan at Woolwich. There would soon be stores there to the extent of many millions, besides the I vane of the buildings, Suppose a tire were to take place, Eegland might be disarmed in a single night. These was another eeil in centralising at Woolvrieh—it was nut prt tected, it was altogether open to attack. Suppeee two or three) large steamers were to elude our cruisers in a war wi.h a maritime nation, what was to stop them running up the Thames anal laying Woolwich ie nehes? Tilbury Fort would be blown to ',hems in half an how, and that and a small fort on the oppeeite shore was the only defence. He hope I the Government would not carry out the system to which he had alluded any farther. lie took some credit to himself, in common with lion. gentlemen on that side of the horse, for having been iustruseental in preventing the small arms factory being established at Woolwieh. He should like some information with respect to the number of horses in the Critnel. The itim set down for forage ap peased to him to he roost extravagant. Mr. F. PEEL did not think the estimates were fairly chargeehle with the obicurity with which the hon. and gallant member tesertstl they were prepared, Some gen tlemeu in the War-olliee had devoted theuaadves to the I preparation of them, and he really thought they had sub witted theta in -s lucid and intelligible manner. The Go rerun-lent had given, its the first five votes, the whole of the military forces, and the charges for those forces. In the first vote there was the number of men, including the regular branches of the army—infantry, cavalry, and an til lery, as well as to the other corps to which reference had , heat made. In the next vote they had given the whole of the militia, in the following vote the volunteer forces of the country, and in the fifth vote the Army Works Corps and its charges. He thought the consolidation of all these branehea in the present estimates far superior to the mode adopted on previous occasions. The votes from six to nine iee'usive provided entirely for ail the civil establishments, and all the executive connected with the adtninietration of affairs of the military forces. Vote 10 contained all the matters connected with the clothing and conamiss triet ; vote il, which was nothing more than one of the sections proposed by the hon. and gallant member himself, was for the material of war. Tarn followed the edecational mid scientific) branches ef the army. There then only remained the nun-effective vote. He (Mr. F. Peel) could not con ceive anything mono simple than first giving the expenses of the military forces, then the expenses of the executive, then of the supplies and issues which were necessary for that f e-ce. With respect to the pay of the superintendent of the Army Work Cores being higher than that of is gene ral, he would observe that the allowances to a general offi cer made his pey much higher than it was set down, while the officer alluded to received no allowance whatever. With reference to the Turkish Contingent, he could only say that the Turkish Government had agreed to place 20,000 men at the disposal of her Majesty's Government. That number had been handed over, and were at present stationed at Ken tch. Ur. W. WILLIAMS could make nothing whatever of the estimates. They were a mass of confusion that ho should like to have elucidated. There were many items which he thought ought, injustice to that house and to the country, to be explained. What was the meaning of the large allowances made to officers is addition to their pay ? There was an item, amounting to 131,5001 a, for allowances to engineer officers. in number only 300. That was nearly ' 1,0001. for each officer. What rendered this enormous sum requisite for engineer officers ? Than there was " Con tingeet allowances for captains, 78,7421." What were those contingencies which called for that large sum? He could occupy the house the whole evening with items such as those. Ile thought also that if the items were divided j into army, ordnance, and commissariat estimates, as they had been formerly, they would have beets much more iu telligible, enabling honourable gentlemen to reach the meaning of the items and to arrive at some conclusion. There was an item cf 43,0001. for Divine service—did that provide for clergymen of all denominations or for those of the Church of England only? Mr. F. PEEL, expl need that engineer officers were not proVided, with barrack and other accommodation like the officers of the line. They were therefore paid in lieu of these accommodations an allowance equal to half their pay while at horns, and to the amount • of their pay while abroad. He would also point out to the hon. gentleman that the amount paid so far from amounting to 1,000/. to each officer, did not :mount to 1001. The grant for Divine service was for all denominatiens recognised in the army, namely—Catholic, Protestant, and Presbyterian. Mr. W. WILLIAMS thanked the hen. gentleman the Under-Secretary for the War Department for the correc tion. He was glad to find. he had made an error. He should like to hear how it was that Lord Hardiuge, as Commander-in-Chief, received more than bad been paid to Lord Hill and to the Duke of Wellington when filling that office. He found that the sum paid to Lard flardinge, while full general, was 3,453/. is. 6d., Which he believed was the usual salary; but on his advancement to the rank of Yield-Marshal that sum had been increased to 6 0001., within fit. 3d. Hew was it that the salary of that office was not fixed like that of any other ? The duties wore not of a very arduous kind, and, he did not see why theo salary should be higher than that of the Secretary for War or that of the First Lord of the Admiralty. Mr. F. PEEL—The rats of pay set flown in the estimates was that of a field-marshal, but within a very few days after his appointment to that rank Lord Hardinge had written to say that he should only draw the pay of a general officer. Mr. WILLIAMS—That fact ought to have appeared upon the estimates. What was the ressen of therg being an ncrease in Closure sot down for the home staff '? He be lieved that the number of the army in England was at that time less than on former occasions in time of peace. He could not, therefore, understated the increase in charge under that head. Thera was also an increase in the charges for the home medical staff. The hon. gentleman cared the attention of the house to the large number of general officers drawing pay, and also to the fact that a much larger amount was paid to retired officers of the army as con , - pared with naval officers of the same rank. Mr. F. PEEL—The increased charge for the home staff was obviously duo to the great increase of dater devolving upon the staff at head-quarters, and at the camps, which was much greater at that time than it was two years ago. The hon, gentleman was in error in supposing the army at 1 home to be less at that time than on former occasions. All the different regiments had been put upon the war este blishrent, half only were in the Crimea, the remaining half were at the different depots. That the ben. gentleman had cot taken into account the large number of embodied militia. With respect to the medical staff, large additions had been necessary to meet the requirements of wounded men and invalids sent home from the Crimea, as well as for the staff of the two new hospitals which had been esta blished. The pay of colonels had laten reduced; it was formerly 1,20 e/., it was then only 1,0001., of which 500/. or GU. represented compensation for the loss of perquisites connected with the clothing of the regiments. Colonel DUNNE fully concurred with the honeur able member for Lambeth as to the confused state of the estimates. It was the duty ef that- house to see that the sums were expended with economy, but he was far from thinking that that economy had been exercised. He would instance the case of au German Legion. The number of men were said to be 20,000; he did not think they amounted to that number, but he would assume it to be correct. Was it possible the incredible sum of 50,000'. had been spent to provide them with knapsacks and colours. He found that there was a sum of 478,00/. set down for the Turkish Contingent. He wished to know whether that cum included the pay of the officers who were not promoted by the Turks ? It was a serious item to pay for the services of A body of men who would never render the service of half the number of Bridle troops. Then there was no account in any part of the estimate of the money expended on the Beshi-bazeuks. He thought the country lead a right to some explanation of the new de partment which had been created—the War Department. He trusted they should hear from the hen gentleman, the Under-Secretary for the War Department some expleua -1 tion of the cost of riding the G rum, Swiss, and Italian Legions. . . Mr. F. PEEL explained that the pay and allowances ia the German Legion were precisely the same as in the Bri tish army, and he imegi cod that the vote provided for the pay and allowances. With respect to the cost of raising, that came under the bead of levy money, winch was pail under stipulation to certain officers, who undertook the whole expense of agencies throughout Germany, to collect men, and wh© paint forwarding them to this country. In alditiou to that the men received the bounty from the Go- , vernruent on arriving in this ceuntry. With regard to the S vise Legion, there was a similar arrangement, with the exception that the stern paid was a little less. In the Italian Legion the scm required was least of all, be cause the man wore not brought to this country. The staff arrangements to which the honourable and gallant colonel (Colonel Dunne) had alluded would, he presarned, undergo some change. It was impossible at present to say what differences would he made, or how the divisions would be adjusted. Then with regard to the Turkish Contingent. To provide for it 300,0001. would Ice required, which amoent would include the various officers and men, and it would include also the Osmanli irregular c.velry. The pay to the officers of the Turkish Contingent was no doubt high, but a high rate of payment was deter mined upon for the purpose of obtaining the right sort of men, who had highly-responsible duties imposed upon thorn. He had also been asked where the pay of the civil I medical officers was provided for. It was provided for under the item of " Hospital expenses"—the amount charged being 1.7.154.1. If that amount were analysed, it would be found that about 127,00(g. was for rationing, the 1 -4m :t i m ing Gi,000!. being for medical men employed here, at Sthyrna, and at the civil hospitals at Scutari. Colonel IC Z , TOX inquired whether the order prohibiting permanent officers on the staff had been rescinded ? He found that some of the officers were still retaining perma nent staff appointments. For instance, the present D - pay-Quartermaster-General hai 6911. 19s. 7d. for his staff pay in addition to his ordinary pay, making more than I,IOOG, a year. Mr. PEEL slid - that could hardly he the case ; at all events it 'would not occur for the future. Mr. OT W T referred to a debate which took place at the close of last session, in .tke course of which Mr. Layard complained that a Lieut.-Colonel B-- had been super seded by a Lieut.-Colonel S----- under circumstances of great injustice. No names were given at that time, but he thought there was no impropriety in mentioning that the Lieut.-Colonel B---- was Lieut.-Colonel Bassett, and the Lieut.-Colonel 5- was Lieut.-Colonel Smith. By that act the country had been-put to the unnecessary ex pense of 1601. a year, the gentleman superseded having received a colonial appointment, for which there wise not the slightest necessity. Another point he wished to refer to, was one in reference to the salary ofthe Commander-in-Chief. He was glad to hear from the hon. gentleman the Under Secretary for War the statement he had made on the subject of that salary. He never wished to say a word in disparagement of Lerd Hardinge, but he really bad intended to take the sense of the committee on the reduction of that salary if it hail not been for the satisfactory explanation that had been offered. (Hear.) The house would remember that a committee, of which the late Duke of Wellington was a member, had agreed that when the Commander-in-Chief became field-marshal he should receive no additional pay, and this was an ar rangement which he thought should be strictly carried out. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman the. Secretary for War had asked where it. was possible for him to get recruits. He (Mr. Otway) would show him where at once he could get 6,000 or 8,000 men, not lads and boys, but experienced soldiers, namely, by moving them from India. There was a general complaidt in the C. imea that lieutenants, captains, and ma jors went off so fast that the authorities were compelled to till their places with mere boys, but from India officers who were acclimatised might be obtained, awl who would be glad to serve. There were 22 regiments in India, each having 2,030 men. If only two regiments were sent to the Crimea 4,000 efficient men might he obtained, and their places might be supplied from England. Ho never heard any objection to that plan, except that it would diminish the number of troops in India. (Hear, hear, and 1 slighter.) Mr. PEEL said that future commanders-in-chief would follow the case of Lord Harding°. In reference to the de portation of troops from In:lia, he ' , egged to say that some of them had bee!) removed during the last year. Sir C. NAPIER wished to make a remark on the subject of medals which he found charged for. He had watched with souse anxiety the last two promotions to the Order of the Bath, and a more unsatisfactory selection he had never seen. He believed it was a general rule that a man should he a Comp inien of the Beth before he became a B.C. B.; but that rule had been departed from. He found that in the recent promotions o'd officers who were entitle 1 to any honours that could be awarded wore unceremoniously passed over. He might mention, for instance, General Shaw Kenneiy, a most distinguished officer, who hail five, six, or seven &asps, and who went with the Duke of Wel lingtoe through the Peninsular War, was entirely left out. o;llc3rs who had served with him in the Bark and else where, were omitted from the list. Oue friend of his, an admiral, who had received the honour, told hint the other day that he never asked for it._ and that in •faot he was ashamed to wear it. (Laughter.) He hoped and trusted that if the Government neglec ed this matter, the House of Commons would take it up, and would insist upon a committee to consider and report upon the manner in which the order of the Bath was best'wed (Hear, hear.) From a pretty gaueral acquaintance with officers connected with both services, ho knew that people locked open the honour not on'y with indifference, but with contempt. One other officer he might mention, although he was rather chary of doing so, because be was his brother—he meant Sir William Napier. Ho was in the Penh/111a, where he was twine wounded, and hat his aras..• Ho was new only a C.B. (Hear, hear.) Colonel NORTH was glad that the gallant admiral hill directed the attention of the , house to that subject. He might add to the names he had mentioned that of General Freeth, who served in the office of quartermaster-general for a period of forty-two years. He did not say he should have been' made a K.C.B. for that service. but he had the war medal and eight clasps. There was a general feeling of regret throughout the army that that distinguished officer had not re ceived the honour. There was another gallant officer, General de Renzy (as we understood) who had been fifty years in the. service. He was severely wounded nt C.n.unna. in both knees, was wounded at Flushing and Teulouao, and had eleven clasps. He was not even a C.B. Lord PALMERSTON said there were no doubt many things of which the House of Commons were competent judges, but be did not think they were the proper judges of the persons upon whom should devolve honours con ferred by the Gown. If hon. members took upon theta selves to say what officers dif the army were the fittest to receive the order of the Bath, these matters would become matters of canvas in the house, and the bestowal of honour would be taken away from the heads of the army, who were certainly the hest judges of the relative merits of officers. If honourable members came down and urged the merits of one gentleman to the disparagement of others, when honours were to be bestowed, is feeling would soon be create' in the army that officers must leok to the House. of Commons for distinctions, instead of relying, as hereto fore, on a more legitimate source. (Hear.) No doubt, General Freeth was a most distinguished officer, and dis charged with great ability the duties of quartermaster general. But those duties, at home, were not quite withiu the range of service which would point out an officer as the most fitting person for the honour of a (Hear.) The Ordt r c f the Bath was conferred for military and naval services. He rather thought that the gallant admiral (Sir C. Napier) was mistaken in supposing that an officer could not be appointed to a higher grade in the order cf the Bath without going through the inferior grades. Sir J. %VALMSLEY apprehended the committee were rather engaged in voting supplies than in discussing the merits of particular officers for the Order of the Bath. (Hear.) The bon. member for Stafford (Mr. Otway) hail reconiniencied that regiments from 'lndia should bp sent to the Crimea. Many officers from India wet e there at present, but he did not think soldiers from India would be as effective in the Crimea as others who might he found. Captain L. VERNON complained that Col. Clarke, the Assistant Quartermaster-General, had frequently been paused over when he ought to have been promoted. Go vernment found they had made a mistake, and made a pro mise that they would promote, him. He asked for the com mand of a cavalry regiment in the Crimea. for which be was eminently qualified, bet they refused, en the ground that they did not intend to send any more to supersede those who had the command there. Col. Clarke was obliged to go somewhere, so he went to Newport, where he died the other day. Mr. PEEL said that if a promise was made to Col. Clarke be thought it would have been performed. After some remarks from Captain SCOBELL in refer ence to the partial distribution of the honours of the Bath, CoL e DIINNE said the committee were getting into a discussion as confused as the estimates themselves. He found in those estimates that the field expo tees were lumped altogether. They would be quite unintelligible with out a more detailed statement. Another subject to which he would call attention, was the Lan I Transport Corps. He saw that there were 21,000 animals charged for, but it did not appear from any report he ever saw, that 21.000 animals were in our possession at any one time. He found also that 211,000/. was charged for waggons, the united charges amounting te a million and a quarter, and yet it was admitted on all hands that the deficiency of our land transport system caused .nearly all the misery our army endured. As to the waggons, Colonel Gordon had re oinked that he did not believe there was an English wag gon in the whole place. He hoped the severe lesson we had learned would induce the Government to take proper precautions for th'e future- He thought, too, that some alterations should be made in the Commissariat Depart meat, part of which was under the control of the Secretary for War, and part under the direction of the Treasury. Mr. PEEL said that the hon. and gallant gentleman was in error about the animals. There bed been collected more than 24,000 animals, for at the end of last year there were 18,000, and the losses must have exceeded 10,000, making together 28,000. The vote would provide for a land trans port in the form of a military train, in which everything would be conveyed for the use of the army. It was a very difficult thing to form the establishment of a military train, which must vary with the amount of articles to be carried, with the demands of the army, and with its numerical strength. (Hear, hear.) It was proposed that the new department should form one large regiment of 8,000 or 10,000 men, divided into battalions according to tire number of divisions of the army, so that each division would have one of those battalions attached to it. How ever a division might be divided, it would have part of a Land Transport Corps to attend to its wants. As to the commissariat it was transferred to the War Department last year, but by arrangement part of it had been taken by , the Trearary. The provisioning was attended to by the War-office ' while payments were made by the Treasury. Colonel KNOX complained of the absence of informa tion respecting the cost of the Land Transport Corps. The expense was enormous and the results trilling. In Janu ary, 1855, at the time when the armi was suffering the meat, not above 400 animals ware sent oat. To be sure the Government had done something ' • they had sent out Colonel M`Murtio—who had dope what he could— which was to pick up all sorts of scoundrels, and to press them into the service. Very few animals had been sent, and those few were rapidly absorbed. Every one knew the state of things, and the reason was, that the business was taken from te hands of competent persons, and given to those who knew nothing about it. At this moment, the Government took credit for :4,000 arrivals, and the hon. gentleman says, that he had that number. He (Colonel Knox) stated that the next time he wrote to the Crimea, he would "ask for a return of all the animals there, acrd ho was quite sine he would not find half the number. (Mr. F. Peel dissented.) Well, if the honourable gentleman takes into account all the animals purchased at Varna, and elsewhere on the Turkish territory, ha might perhaps make rip the number. Why, we had got a Land Trans port Corps ; and the reason was, that we were civiliauis leg the army—taking the managetneut front military men, and putting it into the hands of civilians, who knew no thing about it., That was the cause of all the blunders; and, unless military men were entrusted with their proper departments, the same blunders would be committed over and over again. Mr. PELL ATT wished to ask the Under -Secretary for War a question respecting the seen of 75,0501. granted for good conduct payments. No wished to know how far the sergeant's .irere to be coniidered in this );rant, and whether any addition to the amount cf pension the sergeant was entitled to would be given him for long service Mr. Pi EL—No. Co LII4DS.A.Y thought that there ought to b 3 some system by which, the sergeant could earn extra pay after three years! service. Such service ought to carry with it good conduct ps.y. He wished to ask a question respect ing the Land Transport' Giros. Ile had heard from the Clerk of the Ordnance that the non-commissioned officers of the Sappers , and Miners were to be appoin , ed, by p re ... ference; to clerkships and store-keeperships, and he hoped that promise would be realised. There was another sub ject to which he ~ .ished to allude, which was that of mar tial laW. :Under the present system the proceedings were attended with, inconveni-3ce, from Om length of time during which prisoners had to remain in prison after con viction, asso-isted with those who had committed great crimes. He keow of cases where prisoners had been left fo: five weeks in this way. - - - . Mr. MONSELI, said that the conrse to be punned with regard to the non-commissioned officers of SAppats and Miners was this—a considerable nninber of clerkships at Woolwich was thrown opeb to these officers ; and those deserving of being appointed to them Were, to pass an exa mination, aid the best among them was to be appointed to those situations. It was intended, upon the same prinoi• pie, to throw s large number of clerkships opsn to non coinudesiened officers of the line, to bs given to well-coa ducted officers according to their average 'f merit. Mr. PEEL said, with regard :o the great expense of the Land Transport Corps, that the only safe peinciple was that Of a fixed rate of pay. The melt had to take ears, not only of themselves, bat of their horses. The men were taken from the regiments upon the, principle that if they did not behave wt7ll they were to be seat back again. As for the sergeants they were in the enjoyment of many ad vantages. They were allowed the fullamount cf good con duct pay which they had when privates in addition, and the increased pey ae sergeants. Mr. M. SMTPH c,.lled attention to the state of the luna tic asylum at Chatham. Mr. PEEL said that the whole establishment at Chat ham,requireil to be superseded. The Government had already purchased grounds to form any asylum for lunatics near Southampton. Mr. MILES called attention to the items for the pur chase of horses. He had looked through the army mad ordnance estimates, and he was not able to arrive at any exact conclusiou respecting their number. The number of horses it appeared for the yoar were 22,09 ; while 20,000 had been already sent—making the whole number 40,C00. The cost this year was 742,000/. ; while last year it was 390,0001. The first seemed an imreease sum, and he could not account for the differeaco. The charge for forego was enormous—no less than 4,051,923/. ; while last year it was only 1,050,00 The excess was enormous, and he wished to know what 19.1.3 the explanation It appeared that the cost was upwards of ';'7l. or each animal. Mr. PEEL s tic: that the nember of horses was given in one of the co!uirini of the estimates. There would be a eonsideiaMe deduction in the estimates for this year. 6ir W. JOLLIFFE said, that the expense of each horse would be above 401. He wished to call the attention of the house to the present scarcity of horses. He blamed the purchase of old horses. which in a short time became unfit for work. The horses purchased were usually above five years of Mr. F. PEEL did not understand that the horses pur chased were above five years old, but be preferred the plan of purchasing them at that age ; it was found to be more useful and inure economical. _ _ Colonel BOLDERO said that the subject mooted by the tourable member for Kent was a hi4hly important one. He had minutely visited the lunati • asylum at Chatham a me y- ars ago; and was so disgusted with what he saw, that he resolved to build another, at his own exuense. But he had found a btullieg at Yarmouth exactly fitted for the purpose; he had reported this to the 'Government, who had sent clown a medical officer, whose report was unfa vourable. He was not discouraged ; he obtained leave from the Government of the day to ,take down other officers, :cud iit last he prevailed upon the Government to have the lunatics transferred to that place. He was asto nished to dud that they had been retrausferred again to Cantharn. . _ . moNsELL that the reason was simply this. The buil tings in question belonged to the Admiralty, and as there W :IS an expectation of a large number of invalid seame c?uring tlla war, the Admiralty had reclaimed the pr..,,-rty, nod the War Dep,rimient had no choice but to c nse•it. Mr. NI. SMITH observed upon the unprotected way in which the troops w e re a llowea to diseinire.rit - at. Gravesend. The deaf, bodies were carried aw,y at night, without any p ro p er pi °visite, for their sepulture. Mr. A. S i'AFFORD called attention to the case of the medical staff in the East. He had waited vainly in the hope th et some Weill ivi• of the i;oemeineut, Nimbi have rieen to afford some explanation on the subject which would make his stetement uneecesseary. He had welted through the inst month .of the lest session iu the hope of hearing some St it,tll,..tht. 14.:Sp:or , tog the ; and now, ou S..turilay last, out came the eriny list, with the name of or. Andrew Smite as the hew( of the medical hoard. He. could nut hop to get the truth either from the noble lord at the head of the Go.:ernment or the Under Secret 'Ay for War, bet hoped some of ler Minister would rise, and either endorse or explain their premises. The members of the ineilicel staff had been meet unfairly treated, they hiel been doing their duty in the Crimea at great sacridee to themselves, in ex pectatien of the fulfilment of the promises of the Govert meat. He hop,'" that the Government would see the i te etea of apse lily c u rying out tho.,e promises. Mr. PZEL Moil that if the Governineet had been some what slow in carrying out the proposal of inedicel reform, the reason MLR partly in the assertion et the hon. member who said that everything wolkiet so well in the Crimea that the Government was nut Very hasty in waking altera lhe realm] why those alterations were not made was that some tiere was required, and the reforms were in tended to embrace a large portion of the service. The case of the army surgeons required consideration ; a memorial had bunt received from them by Lord Panwure. This, rind all the other matter relative to the staff, were under conslderati Mr. STAFFORD said that they had been told this be. fore; hut the carrying out the promise would depen upon th , t house, or upon electioneering influence out of it. The vote was thee agreed to. On the next vote----1,000,0001. for the militia, Mr. WILLIAMS said that the militia was estimated at 65,0 iO men ; out not more than half that nunahet were ever enralled end etelhoaied. Mijor SIBTHORe believed the cenntry would give credit to the militia for the manner in which the regiments had besia organised. Lord LOVAINE said, nothing could be more discourag ing to officers when they had organised a regiment than to be placed at the mercy of the Secretary of State, partici], laxly when thoy had exerted themselves more than they were actually called upon to do. Many of the militia regiments had become totally useless, and something ought to be done in the case of those officers who had eu strenu ous!, exerted themselves in the public service. (Hear.) Colonel ADAIR said that in a regiment he commanded, in which the companies were 112 strong, au arraugement was made that when the rateable strength shoal be re duced to 50, as recruits came in they should be again placed on the establishment. He was prepared to admit the duty of commanding officers to send to the regular army as many trained men as possible, but he ventured to say that the recruiting for militia was not conducted in the way most beneficial to the service at large. Colonel GILPIN was of opinion that the militia service had worked beneficially for the country. • Lord LOVAINE said nothing should ever convince him that an effective militia cores could ba maimtsined when the !non were continually enlisting into the line. Mr. COWAN said thore was groat discontent in Scot land with respect to the b.llettinw, as nien of the lowest class had been introduced into houses and communicated disease, vermin, and in:thy other unpleasantuesses• lie hoped the Government would no lougJr rektrd tbeAthings with the official nonchalance hitherto observed, but place the soldiers in barrac.cs na.ier the surveillance of proper officers. • . _ Mr. MONSELL said he must deny that Government had tilt endeavoured to raitio,ate th, evil complained of. since 1815 accotivitolv.tion had been purch,sed at great expense for nearly 0.), , ;( 0 ,nen, and since the war tiroke out further accommodation wag obtained for 50,000 wan, e H ill was in oroo , i.ration. Mr. B .1' ART would give the Government credit for whet they ha 1 dime, but in the conuty he represented there was accomnaodJ tion. The vwe f,r 1 ,000,03 1. was then agreed to A vote of 88,0tA0V. was also agie:Al to for the volunteer c3rne. On the vote for 250,01 , 31. fir the Army Works Corps, Se. W. H. JOLLIFFA oerplained of the country being sadd ed with this corps, which was, he would admit, a necessary evil, hut not the less an evil, as costing a great slight ou the Sappers and Miners and Royal Engineer toreps. Clptein VERNON also protested against this vote. The country was ch ,reei with a superintendent at 1,5001. a ye tr, while the commander of a division received only j 1,383/. 19s. .4d. And whet was it that this superintendent hart te superintend? He had 2,7 9 Labourers to manage, and was especially guarded from etanding to be shot at. j A major-general ouly received 691/., while an assistant ' superintendent of this corps had 700/. a year. A colonel of the staff received but 415/. as. , while an ordinary secretary got 400/ a year, cud so on until the whole amounted to 37,1.301. for 2,799 mechanics and labourers. But that was not all. There al the "Chasseur" floating factory, the Cornerissariet br non attaches to this cores, and other matters amounting alt egether to 87,4911. The price of these 2,799 men amounts I. therefore, to the price of the staff of fourteen regiments of the line. With respect to the duties of these men they only did what ought to be done by the fatigue parties of the line, and had things been conducted as they should have been there woal never have been any occasion for there. A great deal was said about what they would do, and that the Russians would soon find when that corps got out what the raw uneducated British bone and muscle could do. That sounded very well no doubt. A man could break a Rus sian's head with a pickaxe as well as with a sword, but thou came the question—would these men do all that a friend of his, who knew a regiment from a rabble, was de sirous to try, whether, in the event of the Russians at tacking the army works men. while at work, they would stand with their arms folded ur whether they wane". fight? They had attached to the army a class of men, at a most terrific expense, capable of only discharging a particular duty. They were only required when an army was be the field, and in the event of peace occurring , what would. 'dole with them? A sufficient number of men might have been obtained from the militia to increase the Sappers and Miners to the number required. Mr. F. PEEL said it was impossible, from the require ments of the service, to send more than 1,000 Sappers and Miners to the Crimea, and hence it was that this force was established. It was the intention of the Government to increase the Sappers and Miners by 1,100 men, but it took time to make them fit for duty. As for the Army Works Corps being kept only in making roads in the Crimea, their eesistaece in relieving the men of the line had been of the utmost consequence, and acknowledged by officers, and, their number in consequence had been increased from 1,030 to 3,470. Ho did not consider the pay of these men too high, a nd he eulogised the exertions of Sir J. P ax t on in getting the corps formed. Sir J. FERGUSSON had had an opportunity of seeing this corps in the East, unit be thought they ought not to be coutinuel. They caused great jealousy in the ranks, sod fuel been very troublesome from their not b iug/under tuilitery control. Sir J. PAXTON defended the establishment and fitting out of this corps, :ind she reavar,tagethey had been to the array in the Crimea. WI fi regard to tee py of the chief superintendent, it was roily a fair remunera ion for a civil engineer, and it was with difficulty he could gat an effi cient man to undertake the duties. It was all very well for hon. members to talk abent raising an additional force of S pprs Miner's, hut it would have been impossible to have got 4 00 t efficient men added to that corps in less than 12 months ; whereas the Army Works Corps was raised and ern hotted in four weeks, and t a ti eie when they were mach wanted. (Hear.) The establishment of this corps tits the &newest that could have been estab lished. If necessary, the corps could be disbanded in three months, without entailing any expense on tee country, which would not have been the case had they increased the Sappers and Miners and afterwards disnanded them. (Heee.) lie hail received cotrreenicatiene fr..m officers in the Crimea, exteleue the coreluet of the Army Works Carpe, end the great ° benefit they had beau there. Colonel B3LDERO slid he wished the hon. nieinher for Cov , ltty by i never fo..(i a fttipermtmoiont for the Army Works Corpe at (PO/. a year. He (Col. Boldero) would have found an efficient officer for a less sum. Colonel KNOX asked for a po,zuve w.,1 from the Goverucee3t, whether the corps was to be a pezmanent one. Mr. F. PEEL said that must depend upon circum stances. Colonel KNOX said he should divide the house on the vote. • Ira answor ton qulstion from Colonel Du NF, Mr. F. PEEL said it had already been stated that this corps was established for a particular purpose. The vote was agreed to without a divigion. A vote of 169,6201. for defraying the charges and salaries intuit utal to the War Department was then propo,eii. CoLaiel sv.id the War Department as at pre- I Bent conducted was in a state of confusion. Ur. MONSELL said the conduot of the department had gone on improving ever since the present system was in troduced. That system was now simple, and worked with ping ar regularity. Colonel. DUNE said that as a whole the civil part of the War Ddoartment was perfectly disorganised. • Mr. WILLIAMS said there never would be a thorough reform of the army until the throe departments of the War. Dopartment ware included in the vote. The army ought to be under the control of the House of Commons. (Laugh ter.) What he meant was, that the beads of the War De partment should be responsible to the house,and that there should be a minister in that house responsible for the War Department. Mr. OTWAY said there were five under-secretaries in the War Department. He did not see why that depart ment 'should r squire five, when the Foreign-office required two only. He found that most of the directors general had this year an increased salary. Mr. MONSELL said the labour of the secretaries of the department were very different to those of the Foreign offioo. Such had been the duties to be performed that it would be quite impossible to reduce the number of the officials. _ _ Captain L. VERNON inquired whether the inspector general of fortifications and his under secretaries per formed military duties under the military commander, or whether they were under the clerk of the civil de partment ? Mr. MONSELL said they had two classes of duties to perform —military duties under the Commander-in-Chief, and civil duties under the Secretary of State for War. The vote was then agreed to. A vote of 22,731 f. for the head quarters of the military department wal then propose , t. Mr.. WILLIAMS said there were five secretaries in this department, when there were only 22 clerks in the offices. Why did the present Commander-in-Chief require one more secretary than the Duke of Wellington when he was Commander•in-Chief ? Mr. PEEL said the reasen was that the artillery had been thrown into this department. Mr. S. HERBERT said that a recommendation by committee of that house had been made that all appoint ments to offices in this department should be for five years only. He wished to know if the present appointments had been made for five years or for lifa ? Mr. PEEL said that they had been made for five years only. The vote was agreed te, and the chairman reported pre gresi. Lord PALMERSTON said the Government would pre• coed with the committee of supply on Friday. POLICE (BOROUGHS AND COUNTIES) BILL. Sir G. GItEY, in rvpiy ro a question from Mr. HENLEY, gated that this bill would be brought forward on Monday next. The C RAI 13, MAN reported program!, and obtained leave to sit again on Friday. WAYS AND MEANS. The house went into committee, and 26,000,0001. were gr nt.3 , 1 to her Majesty en the Consolidated Fend of groat Britain acid Ireland. The hon.e then resumed. TRIAL OF OFFENDERS BILL. After a short conversation, in which soveral hon. mem bers took part, this bill was read a second time. Annuities Bill-, and the Exchequer Bills Funding Bill were read u third time T.ie Marine Mutiny Bill and the Matiny Bill went through committee. - The Secretary Poor Law Commissioners (Ireland) Bill was read a third time. The Ow-Pen,doners (Greenwich and Chelsea) Bill wail read a second. tiro. The house adjourned at twenty-five minutes before one o'clock. Sporting Intelligence. TATTE RSA MIS-YESTERDAY. Members mwtersd numerously, but beyond paying and r,ceivmg on the events at the recent Liverpool meet ing, very little bu,iness wa4 transacted. wag in very great force, especially for " The Guineas." In the early part of the afternoon 2to 1 %las taken to nearly 1,0001. ; the odds afterwards dr-tmed to 7 to 4, which were also taken to some money. Yellow J, , ,,ck declined to 7 t' 2 taken and offered. The beta hooked aboutFly-by—Night fora;Derbf were 270 to 30, 1,600 to 200, and 800 to 100. Thes• were the only movements worth particular notice. CLOSING PRICES. NOTTINGHAM SPRING HANDICAP. 7to 4 a,st Fulbeck (2 to 1 taken freely) 3to 1 agst Mary (taken) THE LITTLE JOHN STAKES. 6to 4 agst The Dupe (taken) 3to 1 aget Madame Clicquot (taken) NORTHAMPTON'SMILE STAKES. 10 to 1 aget Winkfield (taken) TWO THOUSAND GUINEAS STAKES. 7 tch 4 agst Fiy-by-Night (taken freely) • 7to 2 agst Yellow Jack (taken) CHESTER CUP. 40 t o 1 agst Stork (taken) 40 t o 1 agst Warlock (taken) THE DERBY. 7t o 1 agst Ellington (taken and offered) 8t o 1 agst Fiy-by-Night (taken) 15 t a 1 agst lt,gerthorpe (to 701.) 20 t o 1 agst Vandermulin (taken) 33 t o 1 agst Bird-in-Hanii (taken) 50 t o 1 agst Newington (taken) 60 t 1 aget Enchanter (taken) LIVERFO COL SPRING Cur.—The race not being P.P., the 1).44 at K iut Berezina, De Ginkel, and other borstal that did ti..t start, are void. WARWIC 8: SPRING MEETING.—Bourton, the Trout, and Alonzu. are struck out of their respective engage' meuts at tltis meeting. Country Markets. CFIELUSFORD-FEL 29. Great dn' ',lam prevailed in the wheat trado to-day, thl best wimple u of maintaining last week's prices, and the inferior un , a usable at any price. Spring corn firm,- and the best ba r leya worth le per qr. more money than last week. «heat•, e, old, per s. qr.sB nevr 62 old 58 new 56 28 5. a. 0. 76 i Oats, per qr 22 2 8 75 I Peas, Partridge 38 40 72 White 40 51 ,,„ 0 71 Boiling 43 0 ,1 34 Dun 36 3 37 Beans, Tick 35 3 , 1 , 32 j Harrow ticks 37' 3 Y, 74 I Mazagan 34 26 76 I Ditto, new 32 35 red, Barley Chevaii on- .. 30 Grindii 2 g . 2ti Malt 7O Cbevali A .r 72 COLCHESTER— MARCH 1. Wheat in fair supply sad trade heavy, at is per quarter decline on i a ferior samples. Beans and peas as last week' Oats 6s per fir. lower. Spring tares the tern dearer. Prices to- A ay were as follow :—Wheat, white, 76s to SO3; red, 64s to ilOs ; barley, 32s to 38s ; cats, 21s to 26a ; beaoll ISlaznan, 34 to 36s ; middle and small, 36s to 41s ; white, 4'3s t e 43s ; grey, 36s to 40s. Official Statt 9.`111113 t, of the Quantities of Corn, ice, in the port. of Loudon, from the following p 4 the '2sth Fe b. to the Ist March, both inclusive, ~ received nts, frog) I 'M 3 ..1 ei .. a a -4 .1 Colchester ....... Harwich 2601006 Leigh . slaldon 4461 1149; 71! 20, KIRKCALDY-MARCR 1. We had a Luse supply of wheat at market toLday, but slow sale, at about last week's rates, and latterly at 3s per qr. reduction. Barley and oats in . middling supply, the former sold rwbeily at Is per qr. decline, and the latter at last day's rates. Wheat. Barley. I Oats. 1 B eaus . First Od I 393 6.1 ? 31s 6d le Od Second Third s6ki Od I 34s Od 1 27s Ott I 0 5 Od COAL MABEE Prices of Coal par ton at s. d. Ilyass's West Hartley 17 3 Davison's West Hartley 17 C Hastiug's Hartley l7 3 Holywoll l5 Howard's West Hartley Netherton l7 6 Longridge's Wst Hartley 17 3 South Pearnth l5 t Tantleld Moor l5 ( Taucteld Moor Butes 15 0 , West Polton l5 6 West Riding Hartley l5 0 Grey's West Hartley .6 - .. -- ~ _-1 ~-. ~ WAllsenci, ke Freston edloy Hilda 14 0 Riddell l4 ti Ships at market... 28 SHIFAUNTS OF SPECIE.—The shipments of specie by thA Pen(i4u ar and Orental steamer Maine amount to 470,598/.. c.f Atticll 22.200/ is gold for Alexandria, c6y and Hong K. , ng ; and 448,3981. silver for Bombay, Caleuttl, Singapore, Hong Korg, Canton, and Shanghai. BIRTHS. OF A SOIL On the 2 1 inst., at 2, York - Villas, Campden-bill, Ken• sington, the wife i f Samuel H. Gael, barrister. OP A.OAUGHTEE4 On the 2(1 inst., at 34, limal-crescent, Notting-hill, th• wife of Thos. Hilton Bothamley, Esq. MARRIED. On the let inst,, at St. Pancras, Now-road, London, James Plomer Lemon, Ekq., of Rejarden Henn, Corn w 01, to Henrietta, daughter of the late Captain Geo. George, R.N., of Brompton. DIED. On the 2tl inst., at Glocester House, Regent's-park, S. G. Al.s.rtinez, E.g., formerly of 77, Mark-lase, aged SO. On the 2,1 inst., John Duggan Patterson, Esq., of the General Register Office, Somerset-house, aged 50. On the 2d inst , Thomas Joyce, Esq., of Stamford-hill, and Blshornate . street ithout, London, aged 80. On the 2d inst., Commander J. H. Bathes, R.N., aged 91. Deceaued was the oldest officer in H.M.S. On the 29th alt., Mr. John Osborn, of Greve-lane, Cam berwell, and of the Leather-market, Loadenhall, aged 7s. ',.OITBON: Printed and Published by KURD° YOUNG, Printer, at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand, in the Precinct of the Savoy, is the eetint7 sf Middleez ; Tsekwy, Muck 4,1856. T.— MARCH 3. the close •f the market. Wallsend, kc. I. a. is • Eden Main.. Bell .. Belmont 3raddyll fetton _l5 15 15 17 17 ILa,m bton 17 Russell's Hetton 18 ~ S outh Hetton 17 1 Stewart'e l7 Hough Hall Keilo• ,West Kelloe ...18 _l5 Whitworth l5 Evenw•od 14 BirehgroyeGraigela Derwentwater Hartley 17 Weyne's Merthyr 22 ;8 I Sold 0 o . 6 6 THE es ou-RP4 ti trit. at Tv b &ao, tviESDAY that the aften'n e for the y t ii t tune co l place, O ut next. to t— ope of the ee Election A.,.'nnted Li , wilYered at t ‘ 0 1 1 11 ." — BY rerson w il l i s been Mx zi•Which he IT_ Reuire< !_wessloqti to ZAdon, or ^.O Mall ha , It A k, 4l e the] / 8R LT 131 POvrei ka i o r-Cien l 44 krge 11 n - • P. Co( ~eorge C Millis Co John Dri 4 rasrans 1 ‘• 8. Glr Sr L. Sn FaLICITOg; //414 1cess.. /1 111cre .,..Ing remi r....!mire natoe, L . Vamp . 4,21111111 tlisl i r t o rdit kOninr, ~,_.___! ~_--____ quA] PRI] UEIT Jahn Dig „kw. Al Wait °Moor Jo hn Ha Lolin G. ro cceJ ;John Lo, 44 wis O ti abs 't DEI 11111:,lt. this wi th P rotlis, otit P art ] Th el. next 61 r ticipat rlslinas 4 t the tiv' erßlntiarp 111 Christi ,24 Nocni. 0 4 4 :24,0110 01 itin N N l cst I ry e 4 Mate *o h , IN, &LID 10 - u“. % h al+ th 114, d 4 NS Iv leu i suck o n e ,t,,lt; N A r eguier, M edical re "ty St am lAA t n E prop s a es eau WIIE , •4 4 L$ I.ZePh c. Wllliani eNore Vtiltani a4Nits c e et Leje ' 4 Ettist Hi pren t h in First seven Years. ip l d 40 , 1 9 40 j 2 6 4 ,1 cre l'°l r ti:C n o c u c ntleni axre y o - 7_ me,, tavel ~: II _ ~~_ w Pa. Fr; ~''~,~.