The Sun. — London, England, 1861-03-12 00:00:00

THIRD EDITION. SCTN OFFICE, Seven o'clock. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.--(Tnis EVENING). The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. CHRCH . Petitions against the abolition ßATES of Church Rates were presented by the Earl of Wilton, Lord Sondes, Lord Clin ton, and other peers. FRENCH OCCUPATION OF SYRIA. The Marquis of NORMAN BY presented a petition from Persons in Newcastle-upon-Tyne against the French occu- Patton of Syria. MARRIAGE LAWS. Lord WODEHOUSE presented petitions from Ryde, E astbourne, and other places, in favour of legalising mar riage with a deceased wife's sister. ADMIRALTY COURT JURISDICTION BILL. On bringing up the report of the committee on this bill, The LORD CHANCELLOR moved the insertion of an additional clause, which was agreed to, and the report was received. TRADE MARKS BIL. The report of the committee on this bill was received. INCLOSURE . This bill passed through committee without amendment. BANK OF ENGLAND PAYMENTS BILL.. On the motion of Earl GRANVTLIM this bill passed through committee. S. The Earl of POWIS TITHE moved for a return of all tithes commuted and apportionei under the 6th and 7th William I V., 0%). 71, from 31st of Dec., 1855, to 31st of Dec., 1860, d istinguishing between those assigned to clerical appro priators and their lessees, parochial incumbents, lay im- Propriators ) and schools and colleges, given in continuation of the papers of the House of Commons of 1818 and 1856. The motion was then agreed to. Their lordships then adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS.—(THIS EVENING). The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The following bills were considered and ordered for third reading :—Bristol and South Wales Union Railway, Dublin ity) Steam Packet Company, Dublin, Wicklow, and _Wexford Railway, and Edenfield Chapel to Little Bolt on Road. The Rhyl Harbour Bridge and Railway Bill was read a second time. Col. W. PATTEN moved that it be an instruction to the committee on group G of private bills, that they have Power to consolidate the Middleton Improvement Bill and the Tongs Improvement Bill into one bill.-Agreed to. tio 'everal PETITIONS. petitions were presented against the uncondi nal abolition of church rates, in favour of the Poor Law Removal Bill, aga i nst the Parochial Assessments Bill and the highways Bill; by M r . P u ll en , from the in habitants of St. Albans, praying that one of the 'vacant seats should be restored to St. Abans, which was disfranchis e d in 1852, and setting forth the extent of its population, and other grounds in support of the prayer, MAGISTRATES IN HOLY ORDERS. On the motion of Mr. T. DUNCOMBE a return of the number of magistrates in holy orders in each county of England and Wales was ordered. ALDERNEY. HARBOUR. On the motion of Mr. LIDDELL a return of the number of vessels which had entered the harbour of Alderney for purposes of refuge during the last ten years, stating theif leoPective tonnage, and distinguishing coasting from foreign bound ships, was ordered. THE NATIVE WAR IN NEW ZEALAND. 111 r. ADDERLEY asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies whether any arrangement had been pro- Posed to the New Zealand Government as to the propor tion of the expense, of the present native war which was to be charged on the Colonial Tre asur y ; an d, w h e th er th ere bed been such an offer made as that the expenses of what ever local militia may be raised should become a charge on t he Colonial Treasury, but that all expenses incurred by employment o f British troops should be borne by the 44 ,,Perial Treasury ? 'IL C. FORIESCUE said that no such arrangement as that alluded to had baen made. . SIR BALDWIN . Ca ptain TALBOT asked the Secretary WALKER to the Admi ralty, in reference to the search for Sir Baldwin Walker, Whether the Admiralty had telegraphed, Or intended to ,_ t elagraph, to our Minister at Lisbon to send ter ce a fast ship Irani the Tagus to Madeira, in order to inpt the Nar cissus when she called there ? Lord C. PAGET replied in the negative, assigning as a reason that they had no ground for supposing that the Narcissus would touch at Madeira. WORKHOUSE OFFICERS. Mr. LANIGAN asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether her Majesty's Government had any intention of introducing (this session) a n y bill au th or i sing th e P oor Law Commissioners to 'grant compensation to Workhouse officers who, having spent the best portion of their lives in the Public Service, may become, from old age or other causes, unable to discharge their duties ? Mr. CARDWELL said that the subject was one which deserved attention, and he had no doubt it would receive due consideration by the Commissioners. NEWFOUNDLAND FISHERIES. Mr. A. MILLS asked the Secretary of State for Foreign _Affairs whether the Commission on the N ew f oun dl and Fisheries had presented their report, and whether any re cent correspondence affecting the settlement of this ques thin had taken place between the Governments of England and France ? Lord J. RUSSELL said that the commission had made report on the matter in 1859, and negotiations had been rug on sub sequen tl y w i t h t h e F renc h Government, ut there were some points of difference w hi c h were no t y e t Battled. GARIBALDIAN PRISONERS. In repl y to Mr. E. JAMES, L°11:1 berated. RUSSELL said that these prisoners had been li REPRESENTATION OF THE PEOPLE. Dar. I.DUNCOMBE;;;;tomove the following motion, of Which he had given notice, and which stood on the Paper.— "That it is the opinion of this house that it will be their duty to lose no further time in giving such complete effect tothe act of the last reign, whereby reforms were made in r epresentative system, as shall carry out the subse- Tient recommendations of the Crown, and fulfil the just txhe pectations of the ho people." n. member said that he had altered the terms of his resolution in order not to interfere with the bills of his 1 x , 114 1 1 11 ' friends the members for E ,st Surrey , and for 'Leeds, 0 - Which he app rove d o f f u lly. With respect to the bill introduced by the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) last ses sion, he said its hot being passed was no loss to the cause of reform, and was an event for which the country was not i nconsolable. ' (Laughter.) When the question stood over in consequence of the fate of that bill he did not ex pect it would have been; indefinitely postponed by Govern ment, and he designated such postponement as humiliating to reformers, discreditable to Ministers, disrespectful to the Sovereign, and insulting to the people.. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The noble lord (the member for the city of London) had twitted the house with the assertion that the country was satisfied with the Re form Bill of 1832, but he denied the accuracy of the asser tion, and referred in support of that statement to the fact of the late Government being compelled to introduce a mea- Mire of reform. (Hear, hear.) That bill was not satis factory, and it was on the faith of the present Govern- Izent bringing forward a satisfactory measure of reform that they were placed in power. (Hear, hear.) He denied also that there was any compact amongst Reformers with l'espect to the principle of finslity, for which the noble lord (Lord J. Russell) had formerly advocated, and he for one never considered the bill of 1832 complete. He was now i n th a t th e sp i r i t o f t h at bill h a d evaporate d ; 4 the altered circumstances of the time, and that a l arge meas ure o f re f orm was imperatively required. He ePpealed to the Government to introduce a comprehensive measure. If they didnot adopt that course reformers must end eavour to get r form, bit by bit, as was propo se d by the on. members for East Surrey and Leeds until they could obtain a Government with a heart brave and a hand strong e nough to grant a reform measure which was suited toenoughLl. , 01 neces si ti es o f t h e t i me an d th e w i s h es of a patient and loyal people. 4. l , S ir G. C. LEWIS having referred to the alterations in resolution, which consist of the omission of words to t he effect that the Government should take the course pre scribed immediately after the publication of the census this year, said that the present resolution was superfluous and nugatory ,considering that there were two measures before the house on this subject. % /I r. - WARNER, amid loud cries of "d i v i d e , " supported e Motion oft. he hbn. member. t ear. BRIGHT said that he felt obliged to his hon. friend f Member for Finsbury, net for his resolutien, but or his admirable speech, as he considered that benefit would ~?Sillt from every discussion on the subject of reform. did not think that the resolution was of ally value, for he (Mr. Bright) had lost all faith in, official promises, which he at present regardnd as worse than nothing. es ßesides, even if the Government should adept his wish, they could not introduce any measure on this question until the bills al luded to had been disposed of. He would, therefore sug gest to his hon. friend to withdraw his motion. (Hear.) Mr. T. DUNCOMBE said that he had no wish except to promote the cause of reform, and he would accede to the suggestion of his hon. friend the member for Birmingham and not press his resolution. The motion was Accordingly withdrawn and the sub' dropped. Mb.— - DWELLINGS T HE OmFove WORKING CLASSES. Mr. STANLEY eider the means of Improving for r a select committee to con working classes in populous the dwellings of the Tring for them air, exercise's Awns, and of obtain s° as to conduce to tiiesirnd occasional recreation, In support of his motion he a d verte l d lealth and comfort. of the dwellings of the humbler classes to the p r e sen t s t a t e and elsewhere, and the various reports in the metropolis and other commissioners, which d e m o revolting condition of the working classesproduced in cert a in construction of railways and local improvem ents by the racking any adequate provisi o n for the dwellin gs t without labouring population. He contended that on th e groundsofthe of religion, of morality, and public policy this state of things should be remedied. LLEFT SPEAKING.] LONDON GAZETT.E-(TBIS EVENING), WHITEHALL, itLuicil 9. Ir The Queen has been pleased to present the R ev. D onald Virray Simpson to the Church and Parish of A harcle, in the Presbytery of Mull, and county of Argyll , v acant by t he transportation of the Rev. Donald MTadyen to the Parish of.Ardnamurchan, in the Presbytery of Mull. WAR-OFFICE, MARCH 12. R e Regiment of Horse Guards—Cornet Cecil Robe rt St. John Ives to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Philip Bennet, who reti re s. Ist, Dra g o on Guards—Comet Herbert Hale Forbes Gifford to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Sidney, promote]. 4th Dragoon Guards—Cornet Augustus GladwynChnrchill 141 g • to be Li eu t enant , b y purc h ase , v i ce Cl em ent Robert uttal Royd s , wh o ret i res. °ILL Dragoon Guards—Francis Gist, Gent., to be Comet, by ItArchase, vice Charles Ford, who retires. • " ra goons—Lieutenant John,Woolincrv. ,Siumons Smith to be Captain, by purchase, vice Francis Nathaniel Astley, who retires; Cornet Charles Downes Manning to be Lieutenant, bY•Purcha.se, vice Smith: 6th Light Drageons—Major Robert Portal to be Lieuten ant-Colonel, by purchase, vice Brevet-Colonel George Augustus Filmer Sulivan, who retires ' • Captain and Brevet-Major - William Hicks Slade to be Major, by pur chase, -vice Portal ; Lieutenant William Edgeworth to be Captain, by purchase, vice Brevet-Major Slade ; Cornet Francis John Roche Thackwell to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Edgeworth. 9th Light Dragoons—Troop-Sergeant-Major Norman Sharp Stevenson, from the 2d Dragoons, to be Riding- Master, vice Charles Clemente Brooke, . appointed Riding- Master, Royal Military College. 13th Light Diagoons—Cornet William Joice, from the 4th Dragoon Guards, to be Lieutenant, without purchase, vice Gardner, promoted ; Lieutenant William Joice to be Adjutant, vice Gardner, promoted. 15th Light Dragoons—Archibald Campbell Douglas, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Inglis, promoted. 16th Light Dragoons—Lieutenant Robert Thirkill Mallard, from the Royal Qu.een's County Militia, to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Howard, appointed to the 11th Light Dragoons ; John Frederick Jeeves, Gent, to be Cornet, by .purchase, vice Charles Anthony, who retires. 17th Light Dragoons—Stanley Yeatroan Clark, Gent., to bo Cornet, by purchase, vice Abadie, promoted. Royal Regiment of Artillery—Brevet-Colonel Gloucester Gambier, C. 8.. to be Colonel, vice Wingfield, retired upon full pay ; Brevet Lieut.-Colonel John Richard Anderson, C. 8., to be Lieut.-Colonel, vice Gambier; Second Captain Thomas Edmund Byrne to be Captain, vice Brevet-Major Richards, placed on temporary half pay; Brevet-Major Edward Taddy to be Captain, vice Anderson; Lieutenant Charles George Luard to be Second Captain, vice Byrne ; Lieutenant Henry Auriol Douglas de Vismes to be Second Captain, vice Taddy. Corps of Royal Engineers—Captain George Ross, from the Seconded List, to be Supernumerary Captain. 2d Regiment of Foet—Ensign Alexander Plunket Van Homrigh, to be Lieutenant, without purchase ; Ensign John F. Boughey, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Blake, whose promotion by purchase, on the Bth of February, 1861, has been cancelled ; Henry W. Thomp son, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Stratford, promoted ; Lieut. John F. Boughey to be Adjutant, vice Phillippa, promoted. 6th Foot—Ensign James John Peter, from the 11th Foot, to be Ensign, vice Nicola, promoted. 11th Foot—Ferdinand Russell, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Coote, promoted. 13th Foot—Captain Arthur Gonne Bell Martin, from the Half-pay List, to be Captain, vice Brevet-Major the Hon. James C. Dormer, promoted, without purchase, to an Unattached Majority. 15th Foot—Lieutenant George Joseph Maunsell to be Cap tain, by purchase, vice Alfred Grey, who retires. • 17th Foot—Captain William Henry Urquhart, from 75th Foot, to be Captain, vice Frederick Carr S. Dyer, who exchanges. 24th Foot--Captain William John Macknight Crawfurd, from the 79th Foot, to be Captain, vice' Robert Joseph Logan Crutchley, who exchanges. 25th Foot—Lieutenant Charles Edward Hill to be Captain, by purchase, vice Arthur Sisson Cooper, promoted, by purchase, to an Unattached Majority ; Ensign Herbert Bulltley_Praed Praed, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Hill ; Charles Mitten Gent., to be Ensign, by purr chase, vice Seriven, promoted. - 30th Foot—Lieutenant Hyde Sergison Smith to be Cap tain, by purchase, vice Wm. Deedes, who. retires; En sign William Vesey Brownlow to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Sergison Smith; Alexander Jas. Boyle, Gen. - . to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Lindesay, pro moSed. • 31st Foot—William Francis Henry Majendie, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Gow, promoted. 32d Foot—William James Aleiander; Gent., to be Ensign, . . by purchase, vice Harding°, promoled. 34th Foot—doseph Edward Savill, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Webb, promoted. 43d Foot—St. Vincent Alexander Hammick, Gent., to be Ensign by purchase, vice John 111.'Nei11 who' retires 50th FOoi—Erisign Robert Stuart MacGregor to be Lieu tenant, by purchase, vice Robert Charles Go; promoted, by purchase, to an Unattached Company. 60th Foot—Captain Nathaniel Burstem, from half pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Brevet-Major John Robert Wilton, who retires ill, on half pay. 70th Foot—Robert Addison Clarke, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Ravenhill, appoi n t e d t o th e 17th F oo t. 72d Foot—Frederick Theophilus Goad, Gent., to be Ensign by purchase, vice Campbell, promoted. 75th Foot—Captain Frederick Carr S. Dyer, from 17th Foot, to be Captain, vice William Henry Urqu hart, who exchanges. , 76th Foot—Ensign Ernest Rogby Bartleet to be Lieu tenant, by purchase, vice Seton Ralph Foster, who retires. 79th Foot—Captain Robert Joseph Logan Crutchley, from the 24th Foot, to be Captain, vice William John Macknight Crawfurd, who exchanges. 81st Foot—Ensign Henry Maturin to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Henry Harrison Briscoe, who retires ; Ensign Robert John Mac Donnell to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice George Frederick Jellicoe, who retires ; Lieutenant Alan Geary Gardner, from the Dublin City Artillery Militia, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Ma turin ; Second Lieutenant John de Montmorency. Arm strong, from the Dublin City Artillery Militia, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Mac Donnell. 83d Foot—Captain James Fielding Sweeney, from the Holf-pay List, to be Captain, vice Thomas Parker Wright, who retires upon half-pay, 85th Foot—John Davison, Gent., to be Ensign, by pur chase, vice Henderson, promoted. 86th Foot—Henry Rowland Spencer Chatfield, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice John Francis Stephens, appointed to the 99th Foot. 90th Foot—Captain Francis Dalmahoy Wyat, from the 2d West India Regiment, to be Captain, vice Robert Trotter Knox; who exchanges; Captain Robert Montressor Rogers, from half-pay Unattached, to be Captain, vice Brevet-Lieutenant-Celonel Garnet Joseph Wolseley r promoted, without purchase, to anUnattached Majority. 92d Foot—Walter Stanhope Sherwill Troup, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Boyd, promoted. 99th Foot—George Ivan Thompson, Gent., to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Somerset, promoted. 2d West India Regiment—Captain Robert Trotter Knox, from 90th Foot, to be Captain, vice Francis Dalmakoy Wyatt, who exchanges. 3d West India Regimen'—Lieutenant Thomas D'Eye Burroughes, from half- pay 14th Light Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, vice Hanrahan, promoted to an Unattached Company, without purchase; Ensign Jas. Salterthwaite Rudd, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Burroughes, who retires. UNATTACHED.—Captain Arthur Sisson Cooper, from 25th Foot, to be Major, by purchase; Lieutenant Robert Charles Goff, from 50th Foot, to be Captain, by pur chase ; Lieutenant George Kennedy Shaw, from 60th Foot, to be Captain, without purchase. MEDICAL DEPARTMENT.—Surgeon-Major Edward Mock ler, retired upon half-pay, to have the honorary rank of Deputy Inspector-General of Hospitals, under the Royal Warrant of Oct. 1, 1853 ; Assistant-Surgeon Thomas Knox Birnie, from Ist Foot, to be Staff Surgeon. ROYAL MILITARY COLLEGE.—Riding N.l aster Charles . Clements Brooke, from the 9th Light Dragoons, to be Riding Master, vice Capt. John H. Turner Warde, Un attached, deceased. BREVET. Colonel Charles William Wingfield, retired full-pay Royal Artillery, to be Major .; General, the r4nk being honorary only,. under the proyisions of the Royal Warrant of Oct. 14, 1858. Lieutenant-Colonel and Brevet-Colonel William Sutton, C. 8., 31st Foot, to have the temporary rank of Brigadier- General while in command of a Brigade. The Brevet rank of Colonel conferred upon Lieutenant- Colonel Arthur J. 'Herbert, Unattached, Deputy Quarter master-General, lonian Islands, on 16th January, 1861, to be antedated to 14th December, 1860. Captain and Brevet-Lieutenant-Colonel Honourable Leicester Cufxon, Rifle Brigade, Assistant Military Secre tary, lonian Islands, having completed the qualifying ser vice for the rank of Colonel, under the Bth and 10th clauses of the Royal Warrant of the 14th October, 1858, to be Colonel in the Army. • Riding Master Charles Clements Brooke, Royal Military College, to have the honorary rank of Captain. The undermentioned officers, having completed five years' service in the rank of Lieutenant-Colonel, to be Colonels in the Army, under the Bth clause of the Royal Warrant of 14th October, 1858, viz.:— Lieutenant -Colonel. Sampson Freeth, Royal Engineers. Itientenant-Colonel Evan Maberley, C. 8., Royal Artil , lery. Lieutenant-Colonel Manley Hall Dixon, Royal Artillery. BANKRUPTS. John Bridger, grocer, New Cross-road, Deptford, to sur render, March 19, at twelve, and April 17, at one, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Jonathan Payne, horse dealer, Dorset-square, March 25 and April 27; at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Jonathan Hainsworth, plumber, Halifax, March 22 and April 26, at eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Susan Catherine Harrison, Ipswich, • Innkeeper, March 22 and April 19, at twelve, rt the Court of Bankruptcy. Henry Clench, milliner, Newington Butts, Surrey, March 26; at half-past twelve, ans April 23, at twelve, at the Court of Bankruptcy. Edwin Ingram, corn factor, Bilsten, Staffordshire March 22 and Aprtl 18, at eleven, at the Birmingham District Court.' _ . . . . • James Richard Homer, corn merchant, Ashton-under- Lyne, April 4 and 18, at twelve, at the Manchester Dis trict Court. William Ballinger, baker, Swansea, March 26, and April 23, at eleven, at the Bristol District Court. Joseph Sutcliffe, upholsterer, Scarborough, March 25 and April 22, at eleven, at the Leeds Districftourt. Thomas Fleming, manufacturer, Halifax, March 25, and April 22, at eleven, at the Leeds District Court. Harry, Rawson, stationer, Manchester, March 27 and April 18, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. Simon Jonas Rosenthal and Henry Simon Rosenthal, butchers, Liverpool, March' 22 and April 11, at eleven, at the Liverpool District Court. Alexander Bryce and James Shuttlewood Oswin, mer chants, Manchester, March 27 and April 17, at twelve, at the Manchester District Court. SCOTCH BANKRUPTS. Andrew Meldrum, jun., draper, Huntley. - Jchn Eskdale, cattle salesman, Kelso. Thomas Whyte, grocer, Wellgate, Dundee. John Weir, draper, Falkirk. David Gibson, cabinet maker, Glasgow. Sinclair Sutherland, farmer, Little Byth and Strath. wapple, Aberdeenshire. Robert Paul, Writer, Dumfries. William Cot,k, Shipbuilder, Stornoway. Staig and Stuart Merchanti , Kircaldy. COURSE OF EXCHANGE.—Tims DAT. Amsterdam Ditto Rotterdam.. — 12 li- 12 2i Antwerp Brussels 25 60 25 70 Hamburgh Par is Ditto Marseilles .. , - 25 75 25 80 Pranld or t on Maine — 1191 120 Vienna. Trieste ....... - 15 35 'l5 50 Berlin... Petersburgh - 33} 33 Madrid Cadiz Leghorn Milan Genoa Naples Palermo. NlesJiiaa. _ 48j 481 - 26 5 26 10 - 2.5 90 25 95 - 25 90 25 95 39 39 - 11 7 117+ - 117 117+ - 524 51 - 62 1 53 2 - .. _ Lisbon Oporto Rio Janeir 3 New York THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY V-E NiNG, MARCH 12, 1861. LITERPOOL RACES—(This Day.) BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH. TRIAL STAKES. Avalanche . Walked over. AINTREE PLATE. Tyrant . Zingari T 2 Five ran. WYNNSTAY CUP. Medora Poynton .. 2 Six ran. SPRING CUP. Calpe Oxford Jenny Longlegs Thirteen ran. TYRO STAKES. Neptunus Bonnibelle . .. Ethel 3. Six ran. £4O HANDICAP PLATE. Lady Derby 1 Hartley Wintney . • 2 Six ran. LATEST BETTING. LIVERPOOL STEEPLECHASE. 11 to 2 agst Jealousy (taken) 6to 1 agst Anatis (taken) 6to 1 agst Master Bagot (taken) 10 to 1 agst bar three (offered) 25 to 1 agst Brunette (taken) 50 to 1 agst Kilcock (taken) CHESTER CUP. 1000 to 10 agst North Lancashire (offered) IMPERIAL PAELIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.) LAW OF DIVORCE IN ENGLAND AND SCOT- LAND. The: LORD CHANCELLOR moved for the appoint ment of a select committee to consider the law respecting the parties who are entitled, or ought to be entitled, to sue in the Divorce Court in England, and in the Court of Ses sion in Scotland, for a dissolution of marriage. The noble and learned lord explained that one of the objects he had in view was to extend the provisions of the existing law to Ireland, and to enable Anglo-Indians to avail themselves of them. Lord CRANWORTH feared there would be a combina- tion across the border to defeat any attempt to interfere with the marriage law of Scotland. In Ireland there was a strong feeling against the Divorce Court. He saw no reason why all her Majesty's subjects should not be enabled to proceed -in the present Divorce Court, and considered there was no cause why the jurisdiction of the court should be extended. Lords MONTEA.GLE and WICKLOW baying made a few remarks, the motion was agreed to. METROPOLITAN IMPROVEMENTS AND DWELLINGS OF THE POOR. Lord DERBY, in moving that it be an instruction to the select committee on the metropolitan railways to inquire into and report upon the houses and of inhabitants likely to be removed by the works of the respective railways, and whether any provision has been made, or is required to be made for diminishing the evils consequent on a large simul taneous displacement of the labouring population, quoted some curious statistics on the progress made in increasing the density of the population from the years 1801 to 1815, from which it appearel that while the population had in creased the number of houses both within, but especially without, the city walls, hadr diminished. Lord EBURY could not see how Lord Derby's desire was to be realised. Lord REDESDALE did not think, the resolution would stop the formation of railways in the metropolis. Still, inquiry would tend to promote contentment. Lord GRANVILLE read a letter from the Rev. P. P. Gilbert, vicar of St. Giles, Cripplegate, deprecating the views of the incumbent of St. Bartholomew, a district of the parish of Cripplegate, embodied in the petition pre sented a few nights ago by Lord Derby to the house, and contending that, so far from the railroad proposed being in jurious, it would be of positive benefit to that district. If it were clearly understood that this instruction was not to operate on the minds of the committee towards suspending these railway bills, he saw no great objection to it, although he thought it superfluous, and not likely to do good. Lord DERBY made a short reply, when the instruction was agreed to. The house adjourned at half-pLst 8 o'clock. _ HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) THE NAVY ESTIMATES. Lord C. PAGET—The Navy Estimates for the year 1861- 2, which it is my duty to bring under the consideration of the Committee, amount in all to the sum, of £12,029,475, showing a decrease upon the estimates for the current year of £806,625. The estimates for 1861-2 are distinctly ordi nary estimates—that is to say, they do not embrace any extraordinary items ; whereas the estimates for the year now passing contained a considerable extraordinary sum on account of the hostilities in China. That extraordinary sum was included in the vote for the transport of troops. It amounted in all to L2os,ooo—namely, £120,000 for trans sports and £85,000 for coals for those transports. To ar. rive, therefore, at the real decrease upon our estimates for the current year we must deduct that sum of £205,000 from the gross or apparent decrease, which stands at £806;625. It will thus be seen that the actual decrease shown in the ordinary estimates for the current year amounts to £601,625. This decrease arises under three great votes. There are various minor items of decrease, but the principal items of decrease in next year's Estimates are Votes 1,2, and 8. Vote 1 is for the number of men; Vote 2 is for provisions, victuals for those men ; and No. 8 is the great labour vote of the dockyards. Now, the decrease under these votes amounts to a very considerable sum; but her Majesty's Government have thought that a large addition should be made to Vote 10 for the next financial year, under the head of "Purchase of Timber and other Stores." The hon. baronet the member for Evesham called attention last year to the state of our stores, and I think he very wisely gave us the advice that we should not be without any stocks in hand, but that a decent and respectable stock of tim• ber should be kept in the dockyards, with a view to emergencies. As I shall allude to that presently when we come to the particular vote, I will not trouble the house with any further remarks on it now ; but I will at once ad dress myself to Vote I—that is, for the number of men which her Majesty's Government thought it their duty to ask the House of Commons to agree to for the year 1861-2. Now, Sir, the number of men we propose to take for the coming year is altogether 78,200. That includes every class of men and boys in the service, and even the civilians who are in the Coastguard service. Therefore, we show during the coming financial year a reduction of no less than 7,300 men from the vote taken at the commencement of the pre sent year. That will be a very large decrease in the strength of the navy. (Hear, hear.) But I must inform the house that although her Majesty's Government at the commence ment of the present financial year thought it right, viewing the hostilities then going on in China, and the probability of the extension of those hostilities, to ask the house to agree to the large vote of £85,500, I stated at the time I had the honour to bring the estimates before the house that the Government, supposing that the war should happily come to an end, and other circumstances should permit, would not think incumbent on them to bear the whole number of men the house had agreed to. Sir, events have happily turned out so that the Government were enabled during the past year to maintain a much smaller number of men than were voted, and yet the service, particularly that in China, has been conducted with every success and advan tage to the public. The greate3t number of men who have been borne at any time during the past year are 81,100 in all; so that the difference between that number and 78,200 which we ask for on the present occasion is the real de crease in the forces we propose to maintain during the corn.- ing year. The actual reduction, then, in the number of men is 2,900. lam bound to state to the house that if the hostilities in China had gone on, not only should we have required large reinforcements, but undoubtedly we should have required to relieve the ships that had been a long time on that station. But lam happy, as I before stated, that hostilities have ceased; the war has been brought to a satis factory and glorious termination, and we are enabled to bring home about 3,000 men from China. So that the state of her Majesty's navy, both for the defence of our shores and for the protection of our commerce in all parts of the globe, will, in point of fact, not be reduced by a single man. Now, with regard to the expenditure in China, I think it right to inform the committee that we have not been able, either as to personnel or materiel, to give the house at this moment any idea of what the cost of that war will amount to. Her Majesty's Government thought it right to send out a very efficient accountant officer to Hongkong with a view to gather in all the accounts, and in fact wind up the affair, and I trust that ere long the Government will be in a posi tion to state to the house what has been the real cost of the war. Whenever we have the accounts, it will be my duty to lay them before the house, if it should be necessary to have a vote on the subject. I have stated that the force at home for the protection of our shores, and also for the pro tection of our commerce in distant parts, is maintained equally strong, equally powerful as it has been during the past year ; but I may state also to the house what I think will be considered very satisfactory—namely, that we have a large accession to our force at the present time. I believe I am justified in stating that the Royal Naval Reserve, which the house agreed to last year, is making great pro gress ; that the seamen are becoming very desirous of enter ing that force; that all those delusions and prejudices that existed in the minds of the merchant seamen of the country are fast vanishing away; and that we are, in fact, justified in asking the house, as we do on the present occasion, for a sum of money for the support of that force, which will amount, I have every reason to believe, to 7,000 by the end of next financial year. The house has always expressed very great interest in the matter of the Royal Naval Re serve. Many gentlemen have said it was a failure. I have heard it often remarked in the house, rather lightly, that the scheme never would succeed; that the men would not enter the force; and that thewholewould be a failure. Now, so far from that, I will take the liberty of reading an extract from a letter which I received within the last day or two from the Registrar-General of seamen. After stating that we have now nearly 4,000 men enrolled, he says, " They are main in since the commencement of the year at the rats of 100 per week on the average. These are not the men originally con templated by the act, but are all fine able seamen, selected for character and ability. Vast numbers have been re jected who did not come up to the mark, or had not five years service at sea. Had not the qualifications been re stricted to these, we might have enrolled double or treble the number of men." Now, I say that is a very satisfactory state of things. I believe we may consider that the Royal Naval Reserve is now an established and very valuable force. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, it naturally became the duty of the Government to consider whether having this reserve, and looking I am bound to say to the fact that it would cost a considerable sum of money to the country, they would be justified in asking the house to keep up the same vote as last year. This year we have already 4,000 of the naval reserve added to' a considerable force of naval coast volunteers. It may be interesting to the house that I s'hould give a sketch of what our reserves are. First of all, our Royal Naval Reserve amounts to 4,000, and I should state that the greater part of these men aro at home and al. ways available. Hon. gentlemen may be disposed to say that these men are on distant service, but there is a very small portion of them on' distant service, certainly under one-fourth. And before I leave the subject of this reservel wish to state that her Majesty's Government are going to bring in a bill immediately with a view to enrol the officers in the mercantile marine or the Royal Naval Reserve. (Hear, hear.) I believe that will be a very great advantage to the navy, and that in the merchant service it will be ex tremely popular. (Hear, hear.) Well, then, the Royal Na val Reserve amounts at present to 4,000 ; the Royal Naval Coast Volunteers amount to 7,000; then wehave got of the Coa tguard on shore about 4,000 ; we have got in disposable supernumeraries an average of 1,500 men ; we have 8,000 Marines on shore ; or rather we shall have in a few weeks when the Marine Brigade arrives from China, and 2,000 boys in the. raining ships. The house will be glad to hear that here is a force of something like 25,000 reserves, avail able if necessary for an emergency to man a large fleet. I think, therefore, it will not be pretended that we have made any reduction in the personnel of our fleet which is unsafe and unwise, looking to the protection of our coasts and com merce. To this I might add a large body of pensioners. The Staff Officer of Pensioners stated to me a few days ago that there is a very considerable number of pensioner marines— about 3,000 or 4,ooo—who are perfectly fit for service if wanted. Then, again, of seamen pensioners we have about 3,000 embarked on board ship. It has been thought wise that we should, as it wore, induct oar young ships' com panies into their duties. It is well known that, owing to the growth of the fleet of late years, we have had a great want of petty officers and leading seamen—a circumstance that has been one of tbo main, causes of the disturbances which have taken place in eur ships. (Hear, hear.) lam positive that when the crews of the magnificent fleet which we now possess become acquainted, as they are rapidly doing, with the cleanliness and the discipline of men-of war, we shall hear very little more of those disturbances of which the world has said so much. lam certain—and it is my business to assure the house of the fact—that, notwith- standing what we hear of the discontent among the officers, and of the general dissatisfaction prevalent in the fleet, such a state of things really does not exist. (Hear, hear.) There are a general feeling and desire on the ,part of the fleet that OUT navy should maintain its wonted superiority, and be worthy of tie great country which it is meant to defend. (Hear, bear.) Another important point with reference to the manning of our ships is the system of entering boys. (Hear, hear.) Of late years it has become the duty of the Government to provide training ships for boys, and, in fact, greatly to extend the system of introducing lade into the service. That was one of those wise recommendations of the Commission which sat on the Manning of the Navy that has never been lost sight of by the Admiralty from that day to this. (Hear, hear.) We have gone on increas ing the facilities for training boys by devoting more ships to that particular object, and we are now arriving at a most satisfactory result as regards the boy system. We have at this moment, according to the last return, as many as 9,639 boys being educated at the public expense. I have attempted to ascertain what proportion of seamen for the fleet will be annually furnished from that number of youths. Our statistics are, however, imperfect, not because the Accountant-General's Department, from which they are obtained, is not admirably managed, for I am bound to fay that in all its branches it is very admirably managed, but because of the constant fluctuations which have been taking place in the numbers of the navy. But I find, first of all, that these boys require an average training- of three years. Therefore, if we allow for the yearly loss through deaths, discharges, and other casualties, we may reckon that the total number left will supply to the navy about 2,900 per annum. The next' consideration is, what is the number of seamen whose places have to be filled up ? After eliminat ing officers, marines, and other parts of the service, I find that our present force afloat is about 38,000 seamen and petty officers, the gaps occurring among whom must be supplied either from these trained boys or from the mer chant service. The proportion of casualties among these 38,000 seamen is now 14 per cent., or about 5,000 annually. That is the present average, but I believe it will greatly decrease as soon as the boy system has further developed itself. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE—Does that include deserters ? Lord C. PAGET—It does. You will, before long, have a navy principally composed of seamen who have been brought up with you from boyhood, and who will be attached to the service by their earliest associations. I have said that we have 2,900 boys to fill up the 5,000 vacan cies in the fleet, leaving 2,100 to be obtained from the mer chant service. Here there arises a very interesting question as to what proportion of the navy is to be supplied by youths who have been educated by the public, and what proportion by the merchant service. Some will say that we ought not to look to the merchant service at all, but should entirely depend upon our own boys. I confess that, as a naval officer, I cannot agree in that opinion. I think it would be extremely unwise to widen the gap between ourselves and the merchant service. (Hear, hear.) On the contrary, I believe it is advisable that a certain proportion of young men should be brought into the navy from that ser vice, and the " remainder taken from our own train ing ships. The matter is one of mere speculation, but I think it doubtful whether any considerable enlargement of the present number of boys in course of training would be attended with as much public advantage as some persons suppose. (Near.) Having stated the number of men we propose to ask, 1 now come to the next important element of our service—the ships. It is quite impossible that we can decide as to what should be our force, either in men or in ships, without baring reference to the forces maintained by other Powers. (Hear, hear.) At pt'esent, and for some time past, it is my duty to inform the committee that, throughout the maritime nation° of Europe there is a de termination—and a very proper one—to maintain an effi cient and powerful navy. We hear it from all quarters that the principal countries of Europe are now paying great atten - t ion to the materiel and the personnelof their navies. (Hear, hear.) I will not at this moment-read to the coinmittee, un less they wish it, a detailed list of the maritime force of other nations, as far as we possess it ourselves. (Hear.) If I am to understand that the committee desires it I will read it. (Renewed cries of " Hear, hear.") First of all, with respect to the French navy, as far as we can gather from the official reports—for we have no information that is not open to the French public—we believe that France has 35 line-of-battle ships afloat and two building, making a total of 37. We believe that the French have 18 paddle and 21 screw frigates, making a total of 39 frigates afloat and 8 fri gates building. All these are wooden ships. I will deal with the iron-cased ships afterwards. The vessels I have spoken of are all steamships. There is a great variety of small ves sels, corvettes, gunboats, and other classes, making the entire French navy consist of 263 vessels afloat, and 61 building. Then we have to consider another great naval Power, Russia. Russia has 9 screw liners afloat, and none building. She has also 7 screw and 10 paddle frigates, making 17 frigates afloat and 6 building. Next, we ' have for the first an account this year of the Spanish navy, which is taking its place among the navies of ' Europe. Spain has of steam liners afloat two, and building ' one. She has twelve frigates afloat and two building. They are all steamers, but whether they are paddles or screws I ' cannot say. We have another navy now entering the arena. I speak, Sir, of the Italian navy. (Cheers.) I hope ' and trust that that glorious people will speedily rank among the first maritime nations of the world. Italy has one screw liner afloat—(a laugh)—she has six screw and twelve paddle frigates, with a considerable number of smaller vessels. This is irrespective of the vessels which lately belonged to the Neapolitan Government. Here is a very powerful force of sea vessels. I must now advert to a very novel weapon of war, which to my mind is of still more importance in considering the force of nations at seg. With regard to the French navy, we know that they have no less than two very large and powerful iron• cased ships. We know they have also four powerful vessel" which they call iron cased fri gates, and that they have likewise four of a very formidable class; called floating batteries. In addition to these they have five gunboats with which we are partially acquainted by rumour, and which are of a very formidable character. We find, then, that the Spaniards are building an iron cased vessel, which is not yet afloat ; and of the French ships I may say that three are afloat; La Gloire and La Normandi are actually on the water. Of the French float ing batteries I am not prepared to say how many are afloat; but I have every reason to believe that every one of these vessels could, if required, be afloat in a very short period of time. We understand that the Russians aro about to build an iron-cased frigate, and the Italians have already one of those iron-cased frigates, which is either afloat or about to be launched. Mr. ROEBUCK—Where? Lord C. PAGET-1 believe at one of the ports in the Mediterranean. I now come to the question of the perform ance of this new class of vessel. (Hear, hear.) All we know on that subject ill from what has been done by La Gloire. As our own are not yet ready, we have no experience to guide us, and I can only say that that is not the fault of her Majesty's Government. I can assert for myself that I have written many letters to the contractors, calling on them to do everything in their power to expedite the completion of our iron-cased ships ; and I mutt say that I think they have not altogether done their duty to the public, or those vessels ought to have been launched a considerable time since. (Hear.) With regard to our force in this class, we have the Warrior and two aster, ships, The Warrioi is launched, and the Black Prince is also launched. The third sister ship is about to be constructed in her Majesty's dock yard at Chatham. These are three of the larger class. We have a second class, called the Resistance class, of which there are two ; and both will, we trust, be launched within the next month or two. We have two more vessels, which have been ordered within the last few months, They are altogether of a new class ; and I shall advert to them pre sently. From this it will be seen that we have seven iron cased ships under construction at the present moment. It would perhaps be interesting to the committee if I gave them some information as to what we know already of these iron-cased ships. (Hear, hear.) The committee tnay re member that it was imagined by many persons that they would be a failure—that, first of all, speed could not be got from them, on account of their being so heavily loaded ; and, secondly, that they would not be seaworthy. We have got proofs that La Gloire has great speed, and also that she is seaworthy. (Hear.) We know that she was appointed to accompany the French Emperor to Algeria last autumn. We know also that his Majesty was accompanied by one of the finest and fastest squadrons in the French navy. My hon. friend the member for Finsbury was at Algeria when the Emperor arrived. La Gloire was in company with his Majesty's yacht, which is a very fast one, and the rest of the squadron were out of sight. (Hear, hear.) It is clear from that fact that La Gloire is a vessel of great speed. Then comes the question—ls she seaworthy P When returning from Algeria the squadron of the Emperor en- countered a gale in the Gulf of Lyons. I know an intel ligent captain of a merchant steamer who was in company with the squadron at the time, and he said that he never saw a heavier sea or a heavier gale. I myself saw La Gloire at Toulon a few days after her voyage, and she looked nothing the worse for it. She lived through the gale, and kept company with the Emperor's yacht. Here is a proof that La Gloire is a very fast boat, and, I will not say a good sea boat, but a boat that could live in very bad weather. (Hear, hear.) With regard to the interior ac comodation of La Gloire I know nothing. She is kept, like some Eastern beauty, veiled from the public gaze. (Laugh ter.) Perhaps my hon. friend the member for Finsbury effected an entrance. but if so, I believe he is the only one who can give us any account of her interior appearance. The whole of the French iron-cased ships are built of wood and covered with armour throughout. They have nothing but what we call schooner masts. They could not at all trust to sails for anything like speed. They are, in fact, entirely steam vessels—screw vessels, and have no pretence to anything beyond that. I believe La Gloire was built on the model of the Napoleon, and it stands to reason that her stowage must be confined, both with regard to provisions and coal. The French build their vessels of wood, and they build them of a size somethins larger than a line-of-battle ship. They consider them as vessels for narrow seas— (hear)—and not for long voyages, and they think it right to case them entirely with iron. (Hear.) We have adopted an entirely different principle ; and who is right, and who is wrong ? No credit is due to me for the Warrior, and, as she was designed by a former Board of Admiralty, I may state candidly what I consider to be her merits, and what I regard as her defects. (Hear, hear.) The great distinc tion between us and the French is this,—they aro build- ing their iron-cased 'vessels of wood, and of a tonnage not much larger than a line-of• battle ship ; while we are building our vessels of iron, and of a tonnage of over 6,000 tons ; for that is the tonnage of the 'Warrior, the usual ton nage of a 90-gun line-of-battle ship being little more than 3 ; 000 tons. Our ships are only partly cased with armour, but they are rigged fully as line-of-battle ships, and have Itnmense stowage as compared with other ships in the navy, and I believe this large class of ships, of which the Warrior is one, will have very great speed. It is a very interesting question to consider which, as a whole, is the better class of construction. There is no doubt that the French construe- tion is attended with very considerable advantages on the score of economy, for we know that a ship of 3,000 tons costs less than one of 6,000 tons ; but wood is a very perish able article, and it is said that with iron plates a consider able degree of decay takes place. Why, then, should we build vessels of 6,000 tons when another nation is building vessels of only one-half that tonnage with nearly as many guns—with, perhaps, not so heavy, but still a heavy arma ment? Here arises a consideration which, I think, must have influenced the late Board of Admiralty, and which is, I think, of great imp ortance. All those engineers who ars making improvements in projectiles tell us that we are only in the infancy of gunmaking. (Hear.) I have heard that a gun is to be produced which will pierce a 6-inch plate. If that be so, what will be the effect upcn our ships cased with 41 inch plates ? This class of vessels will be rendered alto gether useless. One great advantage, however, of building these very large vessels is that we can, if necessary, increase the thickness of the plates—we may even double them. (Hear.) I have taken the trouble to ascertain what would be the effect of an increase of thickness upon the flotation of one of these ships, and I find that with a 9• inch plate the immersion would be increased only two feet. (Hear.) If, therefore, it should be, necessary to increase the thick ness of the plates to 6 inches or more we shall be in a posi tion to do so. (Hear, hear.) This is in itself a reason why the Government, I think, acted wisely in resolving to build vessels of this large tonnage. (Hear, hear.) It is of im portance, too, that these vessels should he able to take a large stock of provisions and coals, and accordingly the Warrior is provided with a great power of stowage, so that she might be well supplied in these respects. Another thing which we consider to be absolutely necessary, and which other nations consider to be unnecessary, is that these vessels should be fully riggel. The iron -cased ships of other nations are merely rigged with schooner masts. We have rigged our vessels independently altogether of their engines, and that I take to be a wise course, because it is impossible to say where these ships may be required to go. They may be called suddenly from one station to another, and it is, therefore, important that we should be able to dispense with their engines. (Hear.) Another point to which I shall advert is the extent of the iron casing. Other nations think it right that their ships should be entirely cased with iron, but ours are only partially cased. The reasons for this are manifest. There can be no doubt that when ) en build ships of great speed with very fine ends, and load these ends with heavy armour plates, it is impossible those ships can go well in a heavy sea. (Hear.) This is one of the defects of the foreign iron-cased ships now building. They will do toler ably well in smooth water, but in a heavy sea they will be total failures. But it may be said shot will penetrate these exposed places, and vessels will be liable to be sunk. This I think is rather hypercritical, but I may state that the greatest care is taken to provide against such a contingency. The ends of the vessels are built in compartments water tight, and any serious damage from shot or otherwise will bo prevented. I have gone carefully into a calculation as to what would be the effect upon the Warrior if a shot struck her and went through the bow or the stern, and I find that the effect would be perfectly trifling—indeed it would amount almost to nothing—as the shot would only affect a particular compartment, :to which are fitted pumps connected with the engine. (Hear.) It must not be sup posed that because these ships are not cased with iron throughout they are not sufficiently strong. All the plates of the Warrior are 9-16ths of an inoh in thickness, and if a shot struck at an acute angle the effect would be that it would be warded off altogether. Then the Warrior is fitted with cross bulkheads both fore and aft, in which in an en gagement the crew will be completely cased in armour, though the ship is not entirely eased with iron. (Hear, hear.) 'We are trying some little variety in the system, such as putting iron plates round the main deck, that being the fighting deck, and there are other variations, to which I need not allude. Let me say a word or two about building these ships of iron and not of wood. Every person at all conversant with such matters will agree with me when I say that an iron ship is imperishable. lam not prepared to say there are no defects in the class of ships to which I am referring, but taking into consideration the pos sibility of our being obliged to case them with thick plates of iron, we have acted wisely in constructing them of iron, because I believe that these ships with proper care may be made imperishable. There is one great defect of iron ships, however, which to my mind answers the argument of the hon. member for Sunderland, and those who, like him, de sire that we should cease to build wooden ships. I know there is an opinion held by many eminent shipbuilders that the navy should be composed of iron ships altogether; but I totally differ from that view. I think those large ships to which I have referred should be built of iron. ,They are ships that will not be ordered on distant voyages. But - for duty on distant stations, where there are no means of get ting docks, we must ever maintain 'our wooden ships. (Hear, hear.) If an iron ship were kept for a couple of months in an equatorial latitude her bottom would be come like a lawyer's wig. (A laugh.) Sho would not steer, and would become totally useless. (Hear, hear.) I think, therefore, on the whole, that the late Board of Admiralty, and the present one, have acted wisely in constructing very large iron-cased ships. I be lieve wo are likely to obtain important information with re gard to the exact form of construction that should be fol lowed in future, from the discussions that are going on in so many societies with regard to these vessels. (Hear, hear.) There is, for example, the Society of the Institute of Naval Architects, from which we expect to derive much valuable information. The Admiralty watch with great interest what is taking place in that society, and I hope it will profit by the excellent papers that are read there by the eminent men belonging to it. (Hear.) I have thought it right before going into the estimates to occupy the time of the house with the matters to which I have just referred. I shall now direct the attention of the House to Vote No. 1, which includes the pay to seamen. With regard to this vote, I may state that there are some changes which have taken place since last year. I have endeavoured to put in a distinct form the actual pay, with the allowances of every description, given to officers and men. It is important to see what we give to seamen over and above their pay and allowances. Hon. members are, no doubt, aware that the seamen of the Royal Navy do not receive their pay as in the merchant service, but if their pay and all the allowances they receive are reckoned, it will be found that they obtain considerably higher pay than in the merchant service. (Hear, hear.) First, we have an established additional pay of £85,673 ; below that we find good conduct pay to petty officers and seaman of £25,000 . further on we have a bounty to seam en of £lO,OOO ; so that altogether the seamen of the fleet receive higher pay than the merchant seamen, (Hear, hear.) It would be very satisfactory indeed, if the pay of the seaman of the Royal Navy could be simplified, so as to show what be really gets per annum. (Cheers.) What I wish particularly to call attention to in this vote is a sum of £9,304, which the com mittee are asked to agree to in order to improve the posi tion of officers in command. The committee are aware that her Majesty Las been pleased to make an addition to the pay and allowances of officers in command of ships. It has Leen stated that this is a deceptive and not a real increase. (Hear, hear.) But if these officers are not to benefit by this regulation why are the public to pay £9,000 under this head ? The committee will find that this is a very great and considerable improvement in the com mand pay of officers. (Hear.) The captains of line-of battle ships will receive an addition of £lOO to their pay ; the captain of a frigate £7O. Commanders and lieutenants in command will receive, the former 2s. Gd. a day and the latter 2s. If ny hon. friend the member for Portsmouth had looked to the details he would have seen that if the Ad miralty had not adjusted the captain's pay they would be giving him more than a rear-admiral. The pay of the cap tain of a line-of-battle ship is £7OO a year. It is proposed to give him, in addition, £1 10s. a day, or £547 command money, and but for the regulations made by the Admiralty the total amount would be more than the pay of an admi ral. Of course, if you were to increase the captain's pay in that ratio, you must also increase the admiral's pay, and so on throughout the service. (Hear.) I think the house ought to know what has been done in regard to increasing the pay of the navy during the last two years. The House of Commons during the last two years has agreed to an ad dition to the pay of the navy involving a permanent burden of £50,000 a year. (Hear.) The increase of pay to the various classes in the navy is a generous and fair increase, and it is a little unreasonable that demands should, not withstanding, be continually made for increasing the pay of all classes in the navy. (Cheers.) After vote No. 1 I may pass briefly to No. 2, the charge for victualling, which of course depends on the number of men. I will only call attention to one charge, which will, it is hoped, be advan tageous to the seamen, although it may not be more econo mical to the service. We have often heard that the beef supplied to seamen is bard, tasteless, and tough—in fact, resembling mahogany. (A. laugh, and hear, hear.) Well, we are trying a plan of curing our own beef at Davenport. We shall kill the finest beef, and we shall cure it in the best fashion, so that this will be a change of very great value to the seamen. (Hear, hoar.) On vote No. 3, for the Admiralty, there appears some increase, but with regard to the Admiralty itself there is this year a decrease. The increase in this item is caused by heavy laVv charges in respect to coastguard cottages all over the coast. The house has taken great interest in providing cot tages for the families of these men. We have taken a con siderable sum for that purpose, and the acquisition of these cottages entails a considerable law expenditure. The actual establishment of the Admiraltyshows a decrease in the pre sent year. There has been a reduction of clerks and a revi sion of the establishment. \V have been getting rid of temporary clerks and somewhat improving the position of the establishment clerks. The next vote, No. 4, is for the coastguard. The committee may be interested in knowing the actual cost of our naval reserve. I have seen it stated out of doors that this year the Admiralty have been cutting down the important branch of the naval reserves, and tak ing a less sum than last year for this purpose. The contrary is the case. Last year we had no experience in this matter, and we took a nominal sum of £lOO,OOO. We have since as certained the real wants of the service, and the vote for the pay of the royal naval reserve is accordingly reduced to £BO,OOO. What the royal naval resolve costs will be seen in page 26. We have taken out the various votes and put them together. The reserve will consist of 7,000 men, aid the sum they will cost is £107,949. In vote No. 1 will be found the pay of ,the training ships ; in No. 2 the victuals ; in No. 10 the supply of naval stores to ships ; in No. 12 the medical charges. These items together make £27,000, in addition to the item of £BO,OOO in No. 4, so that we have a royal naval reserve of 7,003 men at a cost of £107,000, which is at a rate something like £l5 a man. The coast volunteers cost us £28,000, and there aro about 4000 men, showing the cost of the Royal Naval Volunteers to be about £7 a year. The expense of the coastguard may be estimated in the whole at £750,000, and the total cost of our reserves may be stated at £837,000, including all the expenses of the coastguard ships. I pass over No. 5, in which there is no change, except in regard to a small addi tior.al expenditure upon the new survey in Australia. The Australian Government have proposed that they should pay one moiety of the survey about to be instituted of a part of their coast. In No. 6 there is no change from last year. The vote No. 7 refers to Her Majesty's establishments abroad, and on this there is an increase in consequence of the war with China; as, for instance, a larger staff has been required for Hongkong. Vote No. 8, comprising the wages to artificers, &c., employed in Her Majesty's establishments at home, requires that I should say a few words in explanation. The committee are aware that we have had at work in our dockyards for the last two years a vast number of hired men above our establishments, amounting at one time to nearly 20,000 men, and these men were working, not by the day, but upon the system of task and job, so that there was no limit to the work per formed. The result of these great exertions in the dock • yards has been most satisfactory as regards progress in shipbuilding, and already in the autumn of last year it became manifest that a large number of men might be dis pensed with in the dockyards. It then became a question how this should be effected, and the Government thought that it would not be well to discharge all these artificers and labourers who had been gathered together in the dock yards on a sudden, but that it would be best to retain them till the spring, and then discharge them in such a way as not to throw them upon parishes. The Government, therefore, thought it their duty in the month of February to give some notice to the dockyards that the number of workmen would be greatly reduced, but that no man would be discharged without a :month's notice, and Without being sent home free of expense. The Govern ment al. o determined to discharge the men in small numbers, and not to throw a great number out of employment at one and the same time. That was the fairest course to pursue with regara to these valuable men, whom it was impossible to have gone on employing, as we could not find timber for them. We have expended during the present year, or at least shall have expended by the end of the month, no less than 80,000 loads of timber ; and hon. members may readily believe that no possible supply could keep pace with that result. The Government, therefore, thought it their duty to discharge a large number of workmen, but to do so at a period of the year least incon venient to them, and he believed that work at the present time, independent of that in her Majesty's dockyards, is very plentiful. With respect to this vote there is the consider able decrease of £328,555 as compared with the vote of last year. The next vote (No. 9) relates to artificers in her Majesty's establishments abroad ; and, in consequence of the hostilities with China, there is some increase in it. The next vote (No. 10) is for naval stores for the building, re pair, and outfit of the fleet, steam machinery, and ships built by contract. It is one of the most important votes in these estimates, and with respect to which the least in formation is always given. (Hear.) The Government are gradually endeavouring to let daylight into the vote. We have this year introduced into the Estimate some new de tails, and I am not prepared to say that the information may not still be very much enlarged. I may be asked why there should be the great addition this year of £285,000 and odd for atom es, when we are reducing the dockyard establish ments P My answer is that this is not an expenditure, but an increase of capital. The money is wanted for the pur chase of stores, to place ourselves in a position hereafter; to meet any emergencies that may arise. It is our duty to re place our stock of timber, which at the present moment is in much too low a state. That is the reason for asking for this large sum. If the committee agree to the vote we shall in the course of the present year replenish our stock of timber not only to what is called the establishment, but, in accordance with the wise recommendation of the righthon. member for Oxfordshire, we shall have a considerable sur plus. Under these circumstances I trust the com mittee will not hesitate to vote the money. It is not that we are going to expend this timber, but what we want is to lay in a stock of it. There is an item in this vote for an iron-cased ship to be built in Chatham dockyard. I know that there is an opinion that it is unwise in Government to attempt to build iron-cased ships in her Majesty's dock yards. I am not prepared to say whether hereafter it would be advisable to turn our dockyards into iron building esta blishments ; but the Admiralty have thought it advisable, with the view of ascertaining the comparative cost of build ing iron-cased vessels in the dockyards and of building them by contract, that one of these vessels should be built in Chatham dockyard. I beg the house to bear in mind that this is merely an experiment which the Government have made with the view of ascertaining the comparative cost of iron-cased ships as built in her Majesty's dockyards and in private establishments. I may add that six of those vessels are now in progress of being built, of which number two have been launched, two more will soon be launched, and the remaining two will be finished next year, an additional sum of from £114,000 to £116,000 over and above the sum of £375,000 asked for in those estimates being all that will be required for their completion. There are two items set down for troopships, but I can assure the committee we seek to build these vessels simply in lieu of ships that have been f lost. We are asking you to assent to no augmentat.itentin our usual transport fleet. We are not desirous of i e m at i m a an g our neighbours over the water in constructiZaing t r only that y ships of this class. We are anxious to ro sary we should have for the purpose comparatively small number which it o r f ' m s t p h o e si oo tiv n e t l i y nu n e e d c r e e s: lief of our troops. Two of our transport ships have un fortunately been lost, and these it is expedient that we The new ships will cost £70,000 each, and should for replace. thatsum we can provide vessels which will carry a complete battalion of troops from one station to an other. There is also in the vote of which lam speaking a n, item for the construction of store-ships—a class of vessels of which I am aware the hon. member for Sunderland very much disapproves, but with which I do not think it would be either wise or economical altogether to dispense. I at the same time go with the hon. member so far as to regard the question as one of degree. Ido not think it would be well to get up a great fleet of Government transports, as the French have done, but I am nevertheless of opinion that it would be impolitic to trust entirely to private ships. This, however, is a subject which will Le fully discussed before the committee upstairs, and I shall not therefore enter further into it at the present moment There are in this vote no other items to which I consider it necessary to call the attention of the committee, and I sKiall at once proceed to give them a general idea of the way in which the money which they have voted for the navy for tile year has been spent. We have, I regret to say, been tsse much in the habit of accepting the estimates without really , knowing what it is we get for our money, so that the state ment I am about to make may be regarded as wearing some what the aspect of novelty. I have endeavoured to set down on paper that which we have to show for the larger sums which Parliament has granted, and this is the result : We have built during this year 9,075 tons of line-of battle ships, 12,189 of frigates, 4,138 of corvettes, 6,367 of sloops, 1,409 of gun and dispatch vessels, and 102 gunboats, —making a total of 33,280 tons. I stated to the house last year that we intended to have built 29-Bths of line-of battle ships, but I believe that only 20 -Bths have been con structed—a circumstance which furnishes a sufficient answer to the hon. member for Sunderland, who contends that we should cease building these vessels altogether. I may fur ther observe that, so far as large frigates are concerned, we are in a very satisfactory position. I need not read to the committee a return of the ships we have built, inas much as one lies on the table of the house. I shall con tent myself with simply repeating that with respect to frigates we are in an extremely satisfactory state, and that it is not, in consequence, our intention to build during the coming year any more of those vessels. Of corvettes we do not propose to build a great many, our intention being to devote our energies mainly to the construction of those most useful ships—sloops and gun despatch vessels. The improvements which are taking place in this class of ships are such that I feel assured the committee will concur with me in thinking that the Admiralty would act wisely in directing the labour in our dockyards to the completion of a great number of them. We accordingly intend to build 65-Bths of sloops and 411-Bths of !gun and despatch vessels. So far as steamships are concerned we Iva s added 8,760 -horse-power to the navy during the present year, and I may state generally that the total horse -power is now, exclusive of this, 128,612, to which we propose to add, for the year 1861-2, 9,370. Having said thus much I have no further remark to make on this vote, and I shall, therefore, proceed to the next, which is that for new works. This vote shows a mill increase as compared with the cor responding vote for the current year, and in dealing with it the first important point which presents itself is the en largement of Chatham dockyard. Now, I have been very anxious to lay on the table of the house the plan on which it is proposed that this work should be constructed ; but it is, lam sorry to say, not quite ready. Inasmuch, how ever, as there is no chance that this vote will came on for discussion to-night, the delay is not of very great import ance, and I shall, with the permission of the committee, defer going into the details of the plan until it is before us, which I hope will be in a few days. I shall simply May now that we propose going on this year with that portion of the work only which is being done by convict labour ;the em bankment of St. Mary's Island, in which conside;rable pro gress has been made. But the announcement which I think the committee will receive with the greatest satisfac tion is, that it is the intention of the Government to com menee the establishment of a system of naval barracks. (Hear, hear.) This is a question with respect to whichwe feel very strongly. It is, I may add, my candid opinion that if you establish at our principal ports good and come modious and wholesome barracks for your seamen you will so far improve their position, and do away with the discom forts to which they are now subjected, as to render the ser vice snore popular than you would make it by almost any other means. (Hear.) With this view we propose, should we obtain the sanction of the committee for the project, to purchase this year some land at the upper part of Keyham dockyard and contiguous to Devonport. There we pro pose to erect naval barracks. We also propose to build a new salt-meat store. It is false economy to keep our salt meat under temporary sheds. Both the moat and the casks are damaged. I may state that this is an item which has often been proposed, but which has just as often been cut out of the estimates. We have thought it our duty to introduce it again this year, and I hope it will receive the sanction of the committee. We propose also to go on with the new docks at Portsmouth and at Devonport. Another considerable item is for the enlargesnent of the marine barracks both at Fort Cumberland and at Devon port. The committee is aware that there has been a great increase in the corps of Marines. Increased accommoda tion is wanted. We propose to build barracks at Fort Cum berland. The site is a healthy one, affording great ranges for guns, and the land has already been purchased, partly by the War-office and partly by the Admiralty. We in. tend to enlarge the barracks at Devonport ; because en largement has become absolutely necessary, owing to the manner in which the town has encroached upon the bar racks. In this vote there is also included a small sum for the erection of a dining-room for the workpeople at Ports mouth. That will add much to the comfort of the men, and it will also save time, by rendering it unnecessary for the men to go home for their dinners. The only other new item in the vete is a small sum for a lock-up house in each of the dockyards. The object is to have a place. in each of our dockyards where disorderly persons may be confined and kept under careful guard. In the two !succeeding votes, 12 and 13, there are no great changes. The vote 14 is for half-pay. When we are told of the great cost of the non-effectives of the navy, it is at least satisfactosy to know that the vote is a gradually decreasing one. The old offi cers of the war are gradually dying off, and con sequently a vote which now appears enormous may be expected to be in a few years considerably less than at present. It only remains for me to call attention to the increase in the vote for civil pensions. The house has generously made r, by means of the recent Superannuation Act, a large increase in the retired allowances granted to workmen and letbourers of every description. It must, therefore, expect a 1 arge increase in the vote for civil pensions. There is an increase in the present estimates. For certain reasons, h.eavever, it is scarcely perceptible ; but I am anxious to impress the fact upon you that in a few years the increase in the vote for civil pensions must amount to a large sum. (Hear.) A single word upon the Army Department. That vote this year, as I explained at the outset, will show a large decrease, because we do not ask for any sum on account of the war in China. It is but fair, however, that I should state to the committee that the Government may have to ask for a vote of credit for winding up our accounts in China. Last year we took a vote of credit for :g1,777,000 on btshalf of the navy for the expenses of the Chinese war. I can not tell the com mittee what the state sf the balance is. We have no means of knowing. It is impossible for the Admiralty to control as they could wish an expenditure goingon at the antipodes. All we can do is to inspire our authorities out there with a desire to economise in every possible way ; and I am bound to say, with respect to the expenditure in China, that that most excellent, gallant, and heroic officer, Admiral Hope, has shown, as far as we are aware, the greatest desire to carry econo-ny as far as possible, consistently with the suc cess of the expedition. (Hear.) Notwithstanding the dif ficulties with which he has had to contend, natwithstand • ing his severe wounds, he has been unremitting in his en deavours to check extravagance. (Hear.) 1 believe I have now gone through all the votes. There are, no doubt, many details which I have not laid before the committee, but I am afraid of trespassing further upon your attention. (Cheers.) I cannot conclude, however, without expressing the great satisfaction I feel that the affairs of the navy are daily assuming greater importance in the estimation of Par liament and the country. It must prove of the utmost ad vantage to the navy itself that those naval matters which for years seemed to awaken no interest either in the house or out of doors should now be made the subject of numerous and animated debates. I may say for my colleagues and myself that we are most earnest in our endeavours to main tain the efficiency of the navy, not only to maintain its material strength, but to increase the comforts and improve the position of its officers and seamen. To that object we are directing all our energies, and I trust and believe that in granting additional pay to certain classes of officers we shall receive the unanimous approbation of the house. (Cheers.) The noblo lord concluded by moving a vote of 78,200 men of all classes for the fleet and Coastguard ser vice. Sir J. PAKINGTON—The attention with which the committee has listened to the long statement of the noblk lords affords a very gratifying proof of the deep and in creasing interest which is now taken in all matters affect ing the efficiency of the Royal Navy. In taking that into rest I am confident this house only reflects what is the strong and unanimous feeling of the public. (Hear.) The noble lord has made a very able, clear, and, upon the whole, a very satisfactory statement. My object in rising is rather to ask for explanations, or to remark in terms of approba tion upon what has fallen from the noble lord, than to make any comments of a hostile nature. (Hear.) I shall at once proceed to to uch upon some of the principal points to which the noble lord has directed our attention. The first in order is the reduction in the number of men to be voted. The nominal reduction is, I think, 7,300 ; but the noble lord proceeded to explain that in fact 4,000 men were voted l as t year who bad never been obtained, and there fore that the practical reduction is about 3,000. Well, this practical reduction the noble lord accounted for by the ter mination of the China war. So far as the termination of the China war is the real cause of that reduction, iot is im possible for the committee to take any exception the contrary, we must feel thankful that the successful issue of that war has enabled us to m a k e the reduction. The noble lord proceeded to state, if I rightly followed him, that the amount of force the committee is now asked to grant is amply sufficient to mai n t a i n com pletely effec tive the naval force now in commission ; but there are two parts of this subject on which I feel it necessary to ask some further explanations from my noble friend. He stated, as I uniierstood him, that the amount of force for the present year has been sufficient to enable us to keep 1,500 s upernumeraries in our ports. Do I understand him rightly to say so ? Because this relates to one of the recom mendations made by the Commission on Manning the Navy in 1852, and it is one of the points which ought not to be lost sight of; on the contrary, I cannot refrain from ex pressing my opinion that the number of 1,500 supernume raries in our ports is not so great as it ought to have been. I think we ought to have a supernumerary available force of not less than 3,000 men. But, taking the lower figure of 1,500, I want to know if I rightly understood my noble friend to say that these 1,500 were in factpaflable seamen —men who would occupy our barracks, if th es e were i i , u ra iis a ble e existence, and who are therefore actually