The Sun. — London, England, 1831-02-05 00:00:00

ere h e ad originally moved for the Committee on the civil List first, he had wished to obtain some clear and proper understanding of what was the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman then Chancellor of the Exchequer; and, next he hoped to reduce the total sum required for the Civil List. It bad never entered into his mind that the Com mittee should prepare the estimates by entering into a pre liminary examination of the details. The course this night adopted by the Noble Lord seemed exactly that which ought to be pursued, since it did not shift the responsibility of the Minister upon a select body delegated by the House. He had made his statement, and was about to submit the changes he contemplated to the e xamination of a Commit tee. He also thought the Noble Lord fully justified in the separation lie had made in the a mount of the Civil List, as it would tend both to the s im p lification of public ac counts, and to the due controul of the disbursement of the public money. At the same time he could not approve of what the Noble Lord had said regarding the diplomatic ex- pences of the country ; for he saw no reason why the items of the account should not be annually brought be fore Parliament : every sum ought to be separately i dis cussed and voted, and t h e whole sub j ect included n the Sessional Budget ; thus every thing would be clearly brought before the House, and, through the House, before the people. Without entering into details, he could not avoid expressing his disappointment at not finding the Noble Lord make any reductions below the statement of the late Chancellor of the Exchequer : in his (Sir H. Parnell's) opinion, there was room for such reductions, although he could not undertake to say exactly where they ought to be made. To one branch of expenditure he felt decided objections--the salaries of the Household Officers; the emoluments of the Lord Chamberlain, of the Master of the Horse, and of one or two more, were cer tainly too large. In not making some reductions when they had the o pportunity, Ministers had exhibited an ab sence of that spirit of economy by which they ought to be governed in the present circumstances of the country. Mr. HUME was anxious to state shortly, wherein he differed frons the Noble Lord, as well as to express his regret that he could not entirely agree with him. He was not at present sufficiently master of the facts to be able to discuss the details, and in the Committee he should have ample opportunities of examining the details upon the second and third heads of the expenditure of the Civil List. He should only now say generally, that the estimate considerably exceeded what he hoped it would have been, and he was satisfied that a great reduction might and ought to be made. Look ing at the list of pensions now before the House, he could not find one name in fifty of a person who had ever been at all connected with the Crown. That was in itself quite enough to prove the necessity of those pensions com ing under the consideration of Parliament every year. He, for one, could not consent to the giving ninety-eight thousand pounds of the public money, to be paid away in pensions at the uncontrouled disposal of the Minister. The Noble Lord had, on a former occasion, said that the country could no longer be governed by patronage; he (Mr. Hume) hoped that the Noble Lord may also be con vinced that it could no longer be governed by corruption. He had said, that the greater part of those pensions were in fact charitable donations. Now he (Mr. Hume) was of opinion, that if Piers were unable to maintain themselves suitably to their rank from their own estates, they ought not to do so upon public charity, but to lay down their titles.--(Laughter.)—The Peerage was instituted by the Constitution to stand between the Crown and the people; but it wa- not contemplated by the Constitution, that, when unable to keep their places in the State, they should he supported by the people.—(Hear.)—When the ques tion would come to be discussed in the Committee, he should certainly propose that each individual pension should be examined separately.—(Hear, hear. )—lf lie could not effect that examination thoroughly in the Committee, he would do so in the House. Their time could not he better occupied, even should the in quiry occupy them until June.—(Laughter.)—His view of the subject was supported by law, according to which all pensions cease upon the demise of the Crown. Therefore, the pledge of the present Government, the law, and the claims of the country, were now all with him. The pensioning, intletd, was said to be charity; but he thought that charity ought to begin athome.—(Laughter.) —lt was the duty of the House to consider that the dis tresses of the country had been occasioned by the pressure of taxation, of which so great a part was imposed for the maintenance of pauper Peers. Who were the fitter ob jects of the charitable consideration of the House ? The distressed people of England, or the Peer who had rela tions rich enough to provide for them ? To support such persons with the money of the people was not charity— it was profusion and extravagance.—(Hear.)—lt was a time for Parliament to interfere and put an end to the sys tem. He trusted that Ministers would not allow a false delicacy to prevent them from fulfilling their promisee of retrenchment. It ought to be remembered that the average value of pensions was twelve years' purchase, so that the 7,000/. of yearly charge which had recently fallen in, were worth £4,000/. to the nation..—(Hear, hear.) — Now, in one year (1800) the Government of the day had bestowed pensions to the amount of 5,000/. a-year; which were worth, at twelve years' purchase, 60,0001. given away by the Minister in one year. From 1800 to the present year, tl,e individuals so pensioned had received upwards of a million of the public money: and, as they are still in existence, they may probably make up the sum of their pensions to a million and a half. He hoped the present Ministers would put an end to the system. He would consent to giving the present pensioners nee half of the former allowance this year, one-fourth next year, and so terminate the pensions in the third year. -_(Laughter ) The late Ministry had called for 960,000/. on account of the Civil List ; the present Ministry only set down 500,000/. to that account, but then he could not gee the advantage to be gained for the country by the other 460,000/. going to the Consolidated Fund. By that arrangement, the diplomatic expenditure, as well as some other expenses, were kept out of sight. The people of England were never allowed to know their burthens. He had only to protest against that one arrangement. He also ished the country to know what is the amount of in come derived from the Duchy of Lancaster. He would remind the Ministers of what they had themselves said at the beginning of the Session—that the King's Speech in cluded a surrender of all the sources of revenue. He hoped that the influence of the other side of the House would not cause them to change that opinion.—(Hear.) He hoped they would explain the value of those estates; and if lie found them giving such earne st of their intentions, he would give them all the support in his power. Lord ALTHORP said, that, considering the character of the present King, be (Lord Altherp) did not think that lie ought to be the first Sovereign called on to give an account of his private revenue. With regard to what his lion. Friend opposite had just stated respecting the opinion which Members of the present Administration had ex pressed as to the meaning of the King's Speech, he (Lord Althorp) would say that, for his part, he did understand the revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster to be included in the surrender mentioned in that Speech ; but he now was convinced that it never bad been intended to give them up. Mr. MABERLY wished to say a few words in reply to his lion. Friend opposite, in order to show that his view of the arrangement explained by the Noble Lord, re specting the Civil List, was fallacious. It was a mistake to suppose that the Consolidated Fund was not under the controul of Parliament, although the Civil List was out of its controul. Charges certainly were put upon it, the par ticulars of which were not explained hi the House; but still the House had the list completely under its controul, and could at any time examine into those charges. He considered that by that fact his lion. Fiiend's argument must fall to the ground. The diplomatic expenditure of the country had been greatly diminished in consequence of having been brought under the consideration of Parliament; and be insisted that the Noble Lord had done the country a great benefit by placing it permanently under the controul of the House. —(Hear. ) The principle on which he had acted was excellent—to give to the Sovereign what he wanted for the maintenanceof his dignity and comfort in one sum, and to separate all other es pences from that. Now, he would ask, was it no important advantage to the country to have all the expellees of the Civil Government of England and of Ireland brought annually under the consideration of Parliament.—(Hear.) Was it no advantage that the Noble on looking into the duties of the Auditor of the Civil List, and finding that the office was alto g ether use less, be at once p ro p ose d to abolish it ? With regard to the Pension List, h e (Mr. Maberly) thought not only that h to b dd but un— dergo. would bring the subject before the House, he (Mr. M.) would decidedly vote against th e continuance of the pen ) The country was at present in that state which demanded that the public expenditure should be c ontrolled by a severe hand. Some bold measure to c h ec k the system of pensions was at the present conjuncture in- There was upon the list one Noble Lord ho d er i ve d twelve thousand pounds a year from the public purse, on account of two distinct . pensions—a go vernment and the coininsnd of a regiment. He receiv e d four thousand from the Consolidated Fund, three thousand in the Four per Cen t +' ; his pay, and t h e oth e r emolu ;melts of his Coliiiieley, animintid to two thousand more, and hi, sal try as Governor was two thousand eight hun dred pounds. Consolidation o f the pensions bad thus one great advantage, that it enabled the country to see at one view how much it paid to one individual. Mr. GOULBURN agreed with the Hon. Member for Middlesex that no pension ought to be granted without the approbation of Parliament.—(llear, hear.)--But an Hon. Gentleman opposite bad said that he (Mr. Goulburn) had misrepresented the arrangements of the Noble Lord oppo site, in stating that there was, in point of fact, no diffe rence between the present proposition and that which he had had the honour of submitting to the House in the early part of the Session. He (Mr. G.) insisted that that statement was correct; because the diplomatic expendi ture, whether set down to the Civil List or to the Con solidated Fund, was equally under the controul of Parlia ment, according to the express provision to that effect con tained in the Civil List Bill. Mr. MABERLY explained. Mr. GUEST said that as the Pension List had been so often referred to in the course of the evening, he would take that opportunity of stating that the intention which he had announced of referring it to a Committee was not changed. There were many thi ngs connecte d w i t h i t which admitted of no justifi ca ti on ; amongst ot h ers t h e pension of Sir Robert Shaw, a banker in Dublin, which that Baronet had obtained by purchase. He (Mr. Guest) thought such a pension could not be justified. Mr. ROBINSON could not agree that the proposition of the Noble Lord opposite was the same in effect as that brought forward by his Right Hon. Predecessor. He considered the modes adopted by the two Chancellors es sentially different. The late Chancellor refused to have the Civil List referred to a Committee. The Noble Lord, on the contrary, had come forward voluntarily to propose that it should be submitted to a Committee. The great merit, however, of the Noble Lord's plan was simplifica tion, and the separation of the charges for the support of the Sovereign from all others. There was a great ad vantage in having the Diplomatic expenditure, the salaries of the Judges, and the expences of the Board of Works dis tinguished and separate. He did not partake of the alarm of the Right Hon. Gentleman below him (Mr. Goulburn), that there was danger to the State in setting apart and distinguishing the sum paid for the maintenance of the Sovereign. But he (Mr. R.) agreed with his Hon. Friend, the Member for Middlesex, that there was a great deficiency in the Noble Lord's plan, inasmuch as it did not comprehend the Pension List. He was sorry to hear one thing which the Noble Lord had said, and it was seldom that he heard from him anything which lie could not ap prove. He was sorry to hear him say that the greater part of the pensions were charitable donations. But could he even agree with the Noble Lord in that assertion, still lie should not allow that it ought to be in the power of any Administration to give away the public money in such a way, when the country already pays six or seven millions sterling annually in charity to the poor of a different class. —(Hear.)--He would not, perhaps, object to leave such a sum as seventy-five thousand pounds at the disposal of the King, for the purpose of rewarding merit, if any mode could be devised whereby the Minister should be prevented from abusing that trust ; but it was well known how much it had hen abused in the last reign. Mr. GORDON did not see that there was any actual reduction effected by the plan which the Noble Lord had explained. The alteration made in the Civil List made a difference without a distinction. He (Mr. Gordon) knew that when the expenses now separated from the Civil List were charged upon it, it was not usual to bring them under the consideration of Parliament; but that when placed upon the Consolidated Fund, there was a chance of their coming under the consideration of the House. But the expenses of the Ambassadors ought, as a matter of course, to be subject to the controul of Parliament every year. He did not think it enough to leave it in the power of any Minister to have those expenses discussed by a motion on the subject. The country required that Parliament should exercise a strict and regular controul over them. From the whole tenour of the arguments which the Noble Lord on the Woolsack advanced respecting the King's Speech, when he occupied a seat on the other aide of that House, it would be inferred, that if the Members of the present Administration had the power, they would place the reve nues of the Duchy of Lancaster at the disposal of Parlia ment. There was evidently much absurdity, folly, and inconvenience in making distinctions between the revenues of the Sovereign as King and as Duke of Lancaster. On the ground of that distinction his Hon. Friend (Mr. Home) had been defeated in his motions respecting that Duchy. The Ministers would give an account of what his Majesty received as King, but they would give no ac count of what he received as Duke of Lancaster. He (Mr. Gordon) hoped that his Noble Friend would give proof of the sincerity of his declarations, that the country could no longer be governed by patronage : and that he would bring the whole of the Pension List under the re view of Parliament. He would not go so far as the Hon. Member for Middlesex. He would not say that the pensions should be all reduced by a per tentage. But he hoped that the Ministers would re-take the subject into consideration. He had heard the statement of the Noble Lord with great sorrow. He hoped be would re consider the subject. A MEMBER, whose name we did not learn, said that he entirely concurred with what had been said by his Hon. Friend near him (Mr. Maberly); but he greatly differed from the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down. He had not heard the statement of the Noble Lord with sorrow, but with joy ; and he knew that it would be re ceived throughout the country with great joy. Consider ing the principle of separating the accounts more impor tant than any other, he thought that the Right Hon. Member for Armagh had cast an unfair imputation upon the Noble Lord, in saying that he had not submitted the arrangement of the Civil List to a Committee. But he thought that the Noble Lord would have been to blame if he had not taken upon himself the responsibility of that arrangement. When a Committee was called for in the early part of the session, there were no means of bringing the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the time being, to consent to the separation without a Committee. ( The Hon. Gentleman was interrupted by loud cries of " Question !" " Order !" &c. ; and after a few words, which, on ac count of the noise, we could not catch, he sat down.) Mr. HUNT said he heard with great pain the state ment made by the Noble Lord opposite, for he felt that it would occasion deep disappointment to the country at large—he felt that it would disappoint those expectations which the people were entitled to form from the earnest which the present Government held out to the nation. When he spoke of the people, he spoke of those most in terested in the matter then under consideration—he spoke of those by whom the means of defraying the expences of the Civil List were supplied—he spoke of the industrious and useful classes of society—the productive portion of the population, and not the drones, by whom evilly thing was consumed. In the present moment of deep and overpowering distress, the people were looking up to the new Administration in the hope and confi dence that on their first appearance before Parliament and the public they would come forward with a proposition for the relief of those wants which it was impossible ade quately to describe, and scarcely possible to endure. The Civil List certainly formed but a small portion of the expenditure of the nation ; but the proposition of the Go. vernment would go forth as an earnest of their intentions, and the decision of the House would go forth as an earnest of its intentions, and of what the country had to expect from both. On the subject of the Noble Lord's state ment, he did not agree with the Hon. Member for Crick lade, that there was any mystification in it—it was un fortunately, but too clear. He had before that night imagined that it was always the object of Government to mystify matters of that sort, and of every sort connected with the expenditure of the country. He had always given them the fullest credit for mystification ; but on that occasion he must do them the justice to say, that they had evinced no disposition to mystify. He trusted, that as he was so young a Member, they would extend to him the indulgence his inexperience required, and give him credit for every wish to avoid, in the delivery of his sentiments, any thing approaching towards personal offence, or any want of that respect towards the regulations of the House which he should be at all times willing to manifest; but having been sent there by the people, and having been re turned in a very extraordinary manner, by a great body of the people, without any solicitation on his part, and even without his knowledge, lie felt that he should grievously disappoint the expectations which they had a right to form, if he permitted that opportunity to pass without giving expression to the consideration which the conduct of the Government unavoidably suggested. He confessed, it appeared to him that the whole of the question then before the House bad been that night argued as if the people had nothing at all to do with the matter — as though it was a matter entirely between the Crown and the House—as though the House were to pay so much money out of their own pockets to the Crown—and that there was no such thing in this country as a people from whose hard earnings alone could the sums under discussion I.e drawn. He could assure the House that no man was more sensible than himself how much a friend to his people was the present King. The King of England proved that he felt fur his people, while his Ministers be trayed a very opposite disposition of mini. In substance and effect the Noble Lord had told them that there was no relief to be expected on the motion of the Civil List. Now, he desired to learn why it was the former Govern inent had f oun d th emse l ves un d er th e nece ssity of ,. jesign ing? What was it that broke up the former Government, and called the present Ministers to fill their places ? No thing more or less than this, that the former Govern ment told the Parliament, and through them the people, that no relief could be afforded through the medium of the Civil List—that in that department there could he no reduction of, the public expenditure.—(flear, hear. ) It was upon this ground, then, that he affirmed the disappointment which could not fail to be gene rally felt from the course which his Majesty's Govern ment had thought proper to pursue. It was not for him to determine what might be too much or too little for the Civil List, but he too well understood, and too painfully felt, what the people were able to pay. If all the Members of that House were to visit the wretched dwellings which recently it had been his distressing lot to enter, they could not but agree with him, that so far from being able to continue the endurance of the heavy burdens laid upon the people, they were in a condition demanding instant and extensive relief. In presenting a petition yes terday he had not an opportunity of stating a fact, which had he then known he certainly should have stated, but the knowledge of which only reached him by means of a letter since received. It was, that in one of the districts whence that petition came the working people were not able to earn more on an average than from 4s. 6d. to ss. a week, and from what he saw at another place in the same county, be could declare most conscientiously that he readily believed that statement. When he was at Preston one Sunday, instead of going to church—(A laugh)—he went round to the habitations of a considerable number of the poor persons resident in that town and its vicinity. The highest sum that any of them could emu was 6s. a week. Their breakfast was oatmeal broth—their mid day meal was potatoes, and oatmeal broth again in the evening; they paid 61. a year for the wretched hovel they inhabited ; 2s. a quarter for taxes ; and 2s. a quarter for the clergy, with lid. for each chimney in the miserable dwelling. He inquired of them hew long since any of them had new clothes, and could not learn that any of them bad bought a new garment within the last five years ; they never were able to compass any thing beyond second-band clothes, and the poor unhappy beings were so ragged and dirty, that they could not think of going to church. He called upon those who attached so much importance to religious and moral instruction, to ask themselves how they could even indirectly be accessary to a system that kept the people in a condition in which they were unable to attend public worship—so ragged, so mi serable, so filthy, so destitute even of soap to clean them selves, that every one of them was compelled to remain at home, and never to visit their parish church. They were taxed in bread, they were taxed in beer, soap, can dles, and even in potatoes, and all that with the Pension List, which was now to be submitted to Parliament. They had been told that all of those Pensions legally ex pired at the demise of the Crown. Why then, he would ask, not abolish the whole Pension' List, and allow the King to grant all the pensions anew to such only as de served them ? There was not a petition presented to that House which touched upon the subject of the public dis tress, or the financial difficulties of the country, without calling for a reduction of the Pension List. It was the unanimous demand of the people, that all pensions be abo lished except those which have been merited by acknow ledged public services. If those petitions were to be de finitively answered in the manner in which his Majesty's Government then proposed they should be answered, the people would be driven to despair, from whence the tran sition to disturbance was easy and but too certain. He was not the man to say elsewhere what he shOuld be ashamed to repeat in that House; but as long as be was a Member of that House be hoped and trusted that he should so conduct himself as never to fail in respect towards any individual Member, or towards the House collectively—(Hear, hear, hear !)--but with every wish to be governed by such a feeling, lie would call upon the House to demand information respecting the property derived from the Duchy of Lancaster. It was the duty of the House to see all that the Crown possessed. He was not one of those who called for any reduction of what was necessary for the ease and comfort of the Crown, but let the means for promoting that be seen and understood. He was perfectly sensible of the disposition which his Majesty had shown to contribute to the relief of his people. The King was justly so popular that anything in which the Ministers failed would be laid at their own door, and not at that of the King; for example, nothing could more merit the gratitude of the people than the manner in which his Majesty had declined the outfit for the Queen of 50,0001. How different was the conduct of the Minis ters! the reason their conduct formed a bad earnest for the future was, that it afforded indication that they had no in tention of reducing their own salaries. He' remembered well when those salaries were raised to the present high amount—when a message castle from the Crown recom mending an increase of the incomes of the several Members of the Royal Family, and the high Officers of State, on the ground that every article of life had risen one hundred fold, and that therefore, the King, the Royal Family, the Judges, and the other Officers of State, could no longer live upon their former incomes—but out of whose pockets were those incomes to come? Out of the pockets of those who themselves were called upon likewise to pay for every necessary of life at an enhanced price. He thought that if that consideration had been mentioned at the time, it would have had the effect of preventing so unjust an arrangement. As matters then stood, he hoped the House would not let it go forth that there was to be no reduction in the Civil List—no reduction in the Pension List. Though it was intimated that there was to be a reduction of one-half in the Pension List, he must take the liberty of saying that, substantially there was no such reduction. It would be little, then to the credit or advantage of the present Government, to have it go forth in the papers of the following morning, that the just expectations of the people were to be disappointed, and that the present Ministry, like the last, were pursuing a course calculated to drive the people to despair. In making that observation, however, he felt bound in jus tice to bear testimony to the humanity and wisdom which the Government had recently shown in respect to the un happy persons who had been tried and found guilty in the disturbed districts—that proceeding was more calculated to restore tranquillity than any other which they could adopt, and he sincerely hoped that these merciful disposi ti,ns would be carried still further ; under the influence of such a sentiment, he intended on an early day to move an Address to the Crown, praying for a general amnesty to the whole of those unhappy beings—if such an Act as that was passed.—(Cries of question.)—He apologised to the House if he had departed in the slightest degree from the precise question under consideration. He should be ashamed of himself if he wilfully travelled out of any question which he might take a share in discussing; at the same time, that he should be still more ashamed of him self—if, sent to that House by poor and honest men, who lived by the sweat of their brow and the toils of their hands, he did not deliver his sentiments manfully and sincerely—if he did not make an humble, though earnest appeal to his Majesty and to his Ministers on so pressing an occasion. _ _ Sir ROGER GRESLEY next addressed the House, hoping, as we understood, that no innovation would be allowed to disfigure our blessed and beautiful Constitution —that nothing would be withdrawn which was required for supporting the dignity and splendour of the Crown, or tending to diminish that bounty of which the Crown was anciently the dispenser. Sir JAMES GRAHAM (who was for some moments inaudible) said, in reference to the speeches of the Hon. Members for Crickdale and Preston, that he should gladly have the benefit of their assistance, to enable him to deter mine whether the speech of the Hen. Member for Durham was intelligible. As to the particular question under eon • sideration, he thought he had a right, on behalf of his colleagues and himself, to claim from Hon. Members a little indulgence, in the way of time. He thought they were entitled to a little forbearance from those who had expressed so high an opinion of their honesty. Before they decided, something ought to be seen of the measures of the Government. The Hon. Member for Preston had treated the House with respect; and though recollecting the constituency who sent him there, he did not forget what was due to the House. On that ground, he (Sir James Graham) should treat the Hon. Member with the forbearance that was due to such forbearance. The Hon. Member recommended his Majesty's Ministers to re-con sider their proposition. The Government had bestowed upon the subject that night submitted to the House the most anxious deliberation ; and, imitating the conduct of his Noble Friend, he felt bound to state that he could not flatter any one with the slightest expectation that the advisers of the Crown could depart from the proposition that night submitted to the House. The Hon. Member for Preston had most truly said, that all that was gracious in the proposition flowed from the Sovereign himself. In that assertion every Member of the House must agree ; while all that was un palateable was the act of his advisers. That was true ; but it was also true, that the proposition that night submitted t.) the House was the result of the unanimous Couneil. If they thought a certain amount was required for the decent splendour of the Crown, they would be guilty of betraying the Monarch did not they not express that conviction, and having once arrived at a fixed opinion, it would be treachery towards the country if th.•y hesitated one mo ment to submit that opinion to Parliament, and call for its assent.--(Hear.) As had been already stated, all that was gracious in the proposition proceeded frem the Monarch himself, and all that was disagreeable and extravagant was in consequence of the advice of his Ministers. Now, to begin with the list, he should not go beyond the statement of his Noble Friend. First, with respect to what might be considered necessary for the decent splendour and comfort of the Crown. After the most attentive consideration to the daily expences of the establishment necessary for the Sovereign, no less a sum could be proposed than that which his Noble Friend laid before them. It was well known that the Sovereign lived under the eyes of his people. They felt that nothing could be withdrawn from the necessary expences to which his kindness and generosity led—to which his splendid awl noble hospitality gave occa•ion. He did himself, as well as other Members who had spoken, owe his seat to a popu lar election, and he should be sorry did he utter a single word calculated to disappoint the just expectations of his consti tuents ; but he greatly deceived himself, if there was ene man in England who desired to put down one single com fort enjoyed by the Sovereign. There was not a man in England, if called upon to answer the question, who would not unhesitatingly answer, let every one of them remain undiminished.—( Hear, hear.)—So far, then, for that much of the subject. The House had already been made aware of the magnificent conduct of the King, with reference to the proposed sum for the outfit of her Ma jesty. It would be recollected how nobly he had over come the feelings of the husband and the man, and feeling metely as a King who sympathised with the necessities of his people. Ministers were perfectly ready to propose that sum; but his Majesty objected, and decided that it should not be proposed to Parliament. That he felt bound, in justice to his Majesty, to state. The next subject to which he should apply himself was the Revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster ; previous to that he begged to remind the House that his Majesty bad surrendered the Droits of the Admiralty and the Four and a Half per Cents. He should further observe, that an attempt was made to contrast their conduct with that of the late Ministry, in reference to the Civil List, or rather to establish the assertion, that the conduct of both Administrations was the same on that subject. Nothing could be more destitute of foun dation ; in the Pension List, concession after conces sion had been made, and then they were told that the conduct of the two Administrations was alike. He would now apply himself to the Revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster, He presumed no one would deny that that was part of the hereditary revenues of the Crown, and from those it had never been separated excepting in the reign of Henry IV., Henry VII., and during the Protectorate of Cromwell. Now he saw no ground whatever for taking the amount of those revenues into consideration in fixing the amount of the Civil List. If he might be permitted to use so bumble an illustration, he would say, that it would be as just—in fixing his salary as First Lord of the Admiralty—to institute an inquiry into the value of his estates in the country—(Cries of " no, no !")—the cases, he would contend, were pre cisely similar. The revenues of the Duchy of Lancaster were not part or parcel of the revenues at the disposal of Parliament ; they constituted an important portion of the hereditary revenues of the Crown, over which Parliament could exercise no controul, for they had never been sur rendered by the Crown, nor could they ever come under the consideration of the House otherwise than by the free consent of the Monarch. It was also important to be borne in mind, that they were not then making an elee mosynary grant, no equivalent being given on the other side. So far from that being the fact, they were com pounding with the King for the large hereditary posses sions which he had surrendered—possessions so large that the extent was doubtful ; but there could be no doubt that the hereditary revenues surrendered were of much greater amount than the Civil List ; it was a bargain—anything but a grant.—One word as to the Pension List. It had been treated throughout as if no reduction had been made in the Pension List, when the fact was, there had been a reduction made of one-half; and he would call upon his Hon. Friend near him, who was ao anxious a Re former, to say in what manner he could effect a better re duction, or one more simple and complete, than that which had been proposed by his Noble Friend ? The late Government proposed a Pension List Of 140,0001., giving his Majesty full power to dispose of them year by year as they fell in; whereas the present pre / position was to place half of them on the Consolidated Fund, and to bring them to the public credit as they fell in. The Hon. Member for Preston desired to s e the difference between the Civil List of the former and the present Government. He would explain for the information of the Hon. Member : The late Government proposed, upon their own responsia bility, a Civil List of 920,0001., and the details were not submitted to the House ; the present Administration pro posed a Civil List of 520,000/., and said the details should be submitted to Parliament. The late Govern ment proposed to place the whole 920,000/. absolutely beyond the centroul of Parliament ; whereas the present Government proposed to leave a considerable portion of their Civil List within the controul of the House—no less a portion than 450,000/. With respect to the portion to be fixed on the Consolidated Fund, that certainly was not to be annually brought under the considera tion ; but being fixed upon that fund, it would always be within the reach of Parliament whenever it might be necessary to supervise it. As to the pensions granted upon the Civil List, he had to observe that those hold ing them might be considered as possessing a legal or equitable title to those provisions : on the faith of pos sessing them, debts had been contracted, settlements made, and many irrevocable transactions had been founded upon them. He did not deny the power of Parliament to cut them off whenever they might think proper ; but he must be allowed to say, that, under present circumstances, it would be most unwise and unfair to put an end to them; and he trusted before such a question were entertained, the House would well consider what they were about. Something had been said of unworthiness—of bending and truckling to the popular voice. He begged to say, that he believed his conduct was as little open to the charge of truckling as that of any Hon. Member could possibly be. He had the good fortune to enjoy the good opinion of his fellow-citizens, humble an individual as he might be; but yet, as a faithful servant of the Crown, he should never, for the sake of any popularity, adopt a 'course inconsistent with the conscientious feelings which he trusted should ever govern his conduct. Before three short weeks should have passed over their heads, his Noble Friend the Paymaster of the Forces, would have laid be fore the House the decision of a united Cabinet, which lie trusted would be received, and, on examination, would be found to comprehend a full and effectual Reform of that House; and then Parliament and the country would see if the professions of the present Government were founded in truth and sincerity. A British public would then see if the Government had redeemed the pledges they had freely given. The time was not distant, and he thought himself entitled to call upon Hon. Members to wait a little, and see •be great body of the measures of the Government before they came to a decision—before they arrived at the conclusion that his Right Hon. Friends and be had done any thing inconsistent with their former feel ings or professions. He begged, in conclusion, to assure the House, that nothing less than a wish to set himself, and those with whom he acted, right with the public, could induce him to trouble them at that time of the night and in the course of such a debate.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Mr. CALCRAFT said it was evident that there were to be no reductions beyond a trifling amount of five or ten thousand pounds. His Noble Friend opposite had mys tified the Pension List most adroitly, for he managed so throw upon the public all the young lives, and, by keeping the elder ones alone on the List, give himself a chance, during his own Administration, of having it in his power to advise his Majesty upon the filling up of every one of those. It was said that the late Government refused a Committee—they merely said, that at the beginning of a reign there was no precedent for referring to a Committee the Civil List ; such reference was never made except in cases where the debts of the Crown were to 1)a provided for. Even if the Ministers wanted to make a reduction in the Civil List, experience showed that the best way to effect that was by a Committee of the whole House. It was by such Committees that the greatest reductions had always been made. By such a Committee was it that the great reduction in the army was made; it was by a Com mittee of the whole House—not by a Committee up stairs, a garbled Committee, one that might be called a Mi nisterial Committee, prosecuting its inquiries with closed doors, shut out from all publicity, a Committee to do as the Ministry bid it—(Hear, hear)—that was certainly not the sort of Committee the late Ministry re commended, but that was the sort of Committee now re commended. Here was to be no publicity—no open in. quiry. If the Ministers wanted retreuchment, they would have an open Committee of the whole House, all whose proceedings were public. The Committee they proposed, however, was a Committee up stairs. If his Noble Friend, in appointing such a Committee was so dis posed, he might make it an unfair Committee.—(Hear , hear.) Oh, he understood that the Committee was al ready appointed, aad his Honourable Friend who made the motion for that Committee, the great leader who turned out the late Government, was sitting at that— the opposition side of the House—(Hear, hear.) His Honourable Friend might exclaim, " Oh, kill your next Percy yourselves—(A laugh)—you are there and I am here."—(Laughter.) He hoped his Honourable Friend would soon make a similar motion, and that the House of Commons would give the country the benefit of a similar decision.—(Laughter.) The Ministers gave the House the same estimate that the (the Opposition) had defenhtt; and ihis lionotirt)N Friend would give than the opportunity, the same persons would again defend it. The Ministers, however, had objected to the estimate that they now inconsistently defended, and had reduced them (the Opposition) to the dilemma in which they were placed. Then the Ministers said their estimate was irrevocable. That was most extraordinary in them, Is lio prided them selves on their popularity, and looked to the public sup port to maintain their places. They said they would send the estimate to a Committee; but that appeared of no use, for they said, at the same time, that the estimate was irre vocable. Did they mean that they would allow Parlia ment to make no alteration in it? He hoped not. The Ministers were to stand by public opinion—they expected to be upheld by some sort of Utopian ideas of public good —they looked to the House of Commons for support, and yet they said their estimate was irrevocable. He hoped he should be able to justify the estimate of the late Govern. ment should he be restored to place, and he was delighted to see his Hon. Friend, the Worthy Baronet, the Member for Queen's County (Sir Henry Parnell), on that side of the House, and he was also pleased to see there his excel lent friend, the Member for Cricklade, with his pleasant satire and his disposition to cheek extravagance, and he hoped, by the exertions of these his friends, and his own, to be speedily restored to the other side of the House. Sir JAMES GRAHAM explained that he bad cer tainly used the word irrevocable, but not in relation to a Committee of that House.—(Hear, hear.)—When the Hon. Member for Preston proposed that Ministers should reconsider the estimate, he had replied that as far as the Ministers' responsibility went, they had fully considered the estimate, and their decision was on that point irrevo cable. He did not say, however, that the House was not to revise the decision of the Ministers ; he knew, he hoped, his situation and theirs too well. He begged leave to con gratulate his Right Hon. Friend on resuming his station on the opposite side of the House ; for he had just delivered one of those speeches to which he was formerly delighted to listen.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. CALCRAFT was satisfied with the explanation of the Right Hon. Baronet. He wished to ask, however, if the estimates were cut down in a Committee, would the Ministers resign 7—(A laugh.) The motion was then agreed to. CALL OF THE HOUSE. Mr. MAXWELL rose to make the motion of which he had given notice yesterday. His object in proposing a call of the House was not with a view to any particular measure, but to ensure a full attendance of Members, as he conceived this one of the most important Sessions that Parliament had ever assembled. He should move, there fore, that the House should be called over on March 18th. On the SPEAKER putting the question, several voices cried out " No !" and the Gallery was ordered to be cleared for a division. No division, however, took place, and the motion was agreed to. Mr. HUAIE rose to move for returns relative to the in comes of the junior branches of the Royal Family. He stated, that formerly all these revenues were paid out of the Civil List ; and as all other salaries, pensions, and revenues were to he reduced, he thought the revenues of the Royal Family might be reduced also. Up to 1806, each of the junior branches of the Royal Fa mily had not more than 12,0001. a year; then, under the Administration of the Talents, 6,0001. a year was added. The Act then passed stated, however, that the in comes should not exceed 15,0001. a year ; and be thought there were good grounds for inquiring into the subject when he found the Duke of Cambridge had 27,0001. a year, besides the emoluments of a high situation in an other country. The grants to the other members of the royal family were proportionably large. He knew that what each one of the royal family received might be ascer tained by the public accounts on the table, but he wished to have all their incomes placed before the House in one view. He regretted that he had concurred in the Act of Parliament for providing for the servants of George the Third. He believed that that King had left no property behind him, or otherwise he certainly should never have agreed to that act. There was, however, much property left behind, and it was wholly unaccounted for. The whole of these expences were not less than 271,000/. a year—a sum fully sufficient to maintain the dignity of the Sove reign. Every person in the country strove to live up to the pattern set by the Sovereign and the Princes of the Blood. Following their example, every man in the coun try lived beyond his income, and was encouraged to do so by the extravagances of the Princes, and by the example set by that House. He was not in the habit of referring to The Quarterly Review to enforce his statements ; but it was very ably stated in that work last year, that the extra vagance of the salaries given to public men had had a most pernicious influence on the country, by affording a bad example. At present all the higher classes were in great difficulties; and if the House hoped to cure these evils, it must begin at the head. He hoped that the good sense of the members of the Royal Family would induce them to consider the value of public opinion, and reduce their expences; There was another part of the subject which he wished to notice. On the death of any branch of the Royal Family, the incomes of the survivors were liable to be augmented. He wished, therefore, to have a return of the income of each member of the Royal Family, and of the contingencies of increased income of which they had expectations. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for " A Return of all Sums of Money paid out of the Consolidated Fund to the several branches of the Royal Family, separate from any payments to be made from the Civil List ; stating the amount paid to each, the Acts of Parliament under which it was granted, and the amount granted to each; and also what contingencies each mein bember might expect under the Acts." Ali.. GOULBURN, knowing that it was better to cor rect a false impression at the moment than afterwards, rose to say that the incomes of the younger branches of the Royal Family were not liable to be increased at the death of any of the members of that family. That, he knew, was a general opinion, but it was an incorrect one. —Motion agreed to. PENSIONS TO THE ROYAL SERVANTS. Mr. HUME also moved for an account of all sums paid to the servants of George HI., the servants of Queen Charlotte and of Queen Caroline, under the Acts of the Ist George IV., chap. 129 ; the 55th George 111., and the 3d of George IV. ; showing the amount paid in each year, and the whole amount paid.— Motion agreed to. PENSIONS TO OFFICERS OF THE STATE. Mr. HUME said there was another class of pensions well deserving the consideration of the House, on account of the abuses of them. The 57th of George 111. was passed at a time when there was a great reduction of sine cures, with a view of giving to the Sovereign the power of rewarding his public servants. But the manner in which that Act had been carried into execution had led to great abuses. He found that persons received pensions three times more valuable than their services. He found pensions granted to persons who had fifty thousand pounds a year. There was a pension of 1,5001. a year granted to the Governor of Madras, who had also a salary of 10,0001. a year. That was an abuse never contem plated by the Act. He found that Lord Sidmouth had a pension of 3,000/. a year, Mr. Lushington 1,5001., Mr. Goul burn 2,0001., Mr. Hamilton 1,000/. Mr. Croker 1,500/., Mr. Courtenay 1,0001., Mr. Hobhouse 1,000/., Mr. Planta 1,0001., and Lord Bexley 3,0001. The services of all these gentlemen were never worth 3,000/. That was his con scientious opinion. He considered that most of these pensions were a pure waste of the public money, and he appealed to the Hon. Member for Dorset, whether the Bill had not disappointed him? The Hon. Member concluded by moving for a return of all persons entitled to pensions under the 57th George 111., chap. 65, and the 4th of George IV., chap. 90, stating the names of these persons, and the amount of their pensions, and the length of the services fer which they were granted. Mr. COURTENAY seconded the motion. Hi s name was one the Hon. Member mentioned, and he must state that he, for one, courted the investigation, and should be quite ready to meet the Hon. Member whenhtehecsheoAsectts. to bring uld the n o t do subjectits dutyfo forward.—(Hear, w a i f r d i . t — - d i ( d H n e o a r t , discontinue ear.) Mr. G. ROBINSON stated, that he thought th e H ouse principle of these Acts was to g i ve a power to the The wo Crown to grant pensions for public services, whatever might be the services of those servants, and whatever their private fortunes. That was a most vicious principle. It was anticipating the power of Parliament. He could readily conceive a case of a public servant entitled to a pension, but he must protest against the principle of con ferring unnecessary pensions on those who had private fortunes. One Member of a Ministry might retire and need the 3,000/. a year, another might have a fortune of 50,000/. Suppose a Minister retiring with a fortune of that kind, would he dare to ask the House of Com mons, or would he induce any other person to ask the House of Commons to grant him such a pension for life ? Certainly he could not. And if he did ask for a pension, he believed that there would be sufficient virtue and decency in the Nouse to resist the preposition. Those Acts further gave pensions to the Under Secretary of State, to the Secretary of the Admiralty Board, to the Seeretary of the Board of Controul, to the Secretary for Ireland, and to various subordinate officers they gave a retiring pension for life. The consequence was, the country was saddled with various pensions, far beyond what he believed the public was aware of, and far be yond what it would be disposed to grant. The Act ought, in his opinion, to be repealed; and if the Hon. h l'"tl‘.- pti .l*(l 7 ili _ ett:en:ett.::el3::: A. : ll : ll n.. ...l .B. 7 l.... : 14,41.:11°54: 0,.,.A1;8261:110..e.. •1 te .... 1.. ..n........, 4 30. .......... ..... `Tt.lO l °.1 ...17 :] 44 . .i IS5g .. Ja. as 1840 ..... ..i. 5, IQ. , ........ ( MI 5, gu o ........ 5, 1870.,...... Member who had made the motion, and who co ot plated, he suppos e d, some. f ur th er p roc eeding', a formove th f e o r r e t p h e e a r l e o p n ea t l h o e f g i r t o , u n h d e twhoaltd all.l, t a h n e i se l h p e er v i r: o 6 o l : l ; to he granted by a vote of Parliament. Mr. GOULBURN h o p e d, b e f ore th e Hon. A ellib moved for the r e p ea l o f th e A ct , t h at h e would 1 1 and either he h a d no t un d erstoo d i t or h e h a d not 11, The Hon. M e mber st a t e d t h at t h a t A c t gav e A rit, j certain public servant s t o rece i ve pens i ons , but it 0! / a , aided the Crown t o g rea t p ens i ons t o persons quabrod . cording to their services. The Hon. Member W0 .. ,, a if he read the Act, th a t on l y s i x o f t h e upper elaew' Nee s 0 , entitled to the high e r p ens i ons . H e b e li eve d, tt°' urb a n if ot rE" those who w e r e e n titl e d t o pens i ons , but abstain e d _ 4111 Bonds :::::: claiming th em , were near l y as numerous as t h o se wie l . at, a A z n rr n on ;;; ceived them. He was himself one of the latter cie si c i . f to zn i bisb, 8: ) ,;,;, if the Hon. M em b er gave hi m t h at opportu nitY 0 iTh' B24 .•••,•••.... quiry and examination which he had promised, he vi p Z l ' 13 ;r • tici;;;"'"'••• tident he could prove that his services entitled him tiat:,182,5 ............• ceive it, and that he was not altogether unworthY o Li tip - a „'e• ......... st 4, f B ..... remuneration for his exertions. 11 0 : 1 )1 ' Mr. ROBINSON and Mr. GOULBURN MOUS _ 1tz,... plabled ; and the motion, with an amendment, se 1, 0 P by Mr. HUME, that the amount actually paid 81 a added, was then read and agreed to. METROPOLITAN SEWER RATE On the motion of Mr. Hurts, a return was the Amount received and expended by the Cot of Sewers for the County of Middlesex, fro! January to the 31st of December, 1830. BARILLA DUTIES. On the motion of Mr. BANKES, a Copy of sury Order, reducing the duty on barilla, war be laid before the House. EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHAR' Mr. C. GRANT, in moving the reappoint Committee nominated last year to enquire into the trade with India and China, said he should late hour, and on a subject with which Memb ready sufficiently familiar, trouble the House observations. The Committee of last Session hi be recollected, sat many months, but althoug , given the subject before them the most unwearit and laboured with the utmost diligence, they . possible to render their labours complete, and the opinion of these acquainted with the subject were several important branches of it which y. examination. In compliance, therefore, with and in pursuance of a notice given by the form. ment, he had now to move the re-appointment mittee. It was his wish that it should inclu. members of the late Committee as possibly co. the change of circumstances, be procured ; bt that some had retired from the House—some tv , to be excused, some had been called to the mt. duties of office, and one, the most distinguished, snatched from life by a most painful and calor cident. He was therefore compelled to make of several new Members ; and although he ft het not was before inconv en i en tly numer ous, P e , not been able to comprise all whose services wer e rable, even with some extension of the number. , Right Hon. Gentleman then read th e names o f those P hers who were to be added to those of the former mittee; they were— Mr. Charles Grant, Marquis Graham, Mr. Baring, Mr. Astell, Marquis of Chandos, Lord Viscount Althorp, Mr. Arbuthnot, Sir Richard Vyvyan, Mr. Hart Davis, Mr. Williams Wynn, Mr. Cutlar Fergusson, Mr. Robert Grant, Sir James M'lntosh, Lord Ashley, Mr. Littleton, Mr. Alderman Thompson, Mr. Hume, Mr. William Cavendish, Mr. Moore, Mr. Baillie, Mr. George Bankes, Power to send for persons, papers, and records, and 0 1 Minutes of Evidence, from time to time, to the Housel„, be the quorunk; Minutes of Evidence taken before tu,"s, Committee on East India Company' s Affairs, in the las' of the last Parliament, referred. IA Mr. W. WHITMORE a pp rove d o f t h e re-aPP°I ip of the Committee; but as he thought the House ° I , possessed sufficient information, from the evidence , it, to form a judgment on the propriety of laying 1,1 trade with China, he should th ere f ore , on a n 01 '1 submit certain resolutions expressive of an opinion 0 subject. 1 After a few words from Mr. C. Fencuss° l/6 IlumE, and Mr. ASTELL, the Committee was a1,,,t .to inquire, in the t erms o f th a t o f l as t year , into 1 0 sent state of the affairs of the East I n di a Cornea' the state of the trade with China. ke! 14'4111 DAY E A LT II 4 °U Se of I inister s in )l' ' sit i°n of t m r. G :ges o f the 7 8 ' That :ale t hese cha i „includes tl allow ar 4 t e c°nd :" of the I I, l. Pences an Mr. Irving, Mr. Courtenay, et Mr. Wolryche Mr. William O'Brien,: Mr. Powlett Thomso n ' General Gascoyne, Lord Viscount Morp e Sir Henry Parnell, „ n o, Lord Viscount AclW'" Mr. Wrightson, Mr. Labouchere, Mr. John Wood, Lord Viscount Sand" Mr. Callaghan, Mr. Goulburn, Sir Charles Forbes, Sir George Staunton , Sir James APl:tonal ( ' Mr. Fazakerly, Mr, Marshall. r Th e f at : 1 cha r i t i es th e pensioi the oth er c _ List, the press he u lt cons waref°re prof 1 . 1 1 - • ce4 under e rit 13 , is so fa On the motion of Mr. RICE, the House, at 1t was ordered to stand adjourned till Monday. THE LATE DISTURBANCES. f a Mr. HUNT gav e no ti ce o f hi s i n t ent i on to 0 10 Friday n es t, th a t an a dd ress b e presente d to his iv' ot i` praying him to grant a general pardon and aii3 irit all those who have been convicted of participatl a 4 disturbances of th e ag r icult ura l di s t r i c t s , b u t iv 16 driven to such acts by the neglect and misconduc t " vernment. 1101 tiin princil-• ; 1. 1 14 ef to ' ne absolo 94 h th e cow u ti ;" which, Aav e ": Y a l lad re a hat if ficult t tlfiith- m th e I 'atioil T he _ Lit!it dc,c a "( 1 s Itv, e the who aol e 4 94 ts ` . : 18 1)05 , I 'Y s lif .414 and , Peen with )11 of Prop he se The Orders of the Day were them disposed of, House adjourned at Twelve o'clock. LADY JERSEY.—LaIIy JERSEY, t he Agti tb of an Irish Clergyman, and celebrated in her i c) : t e " the beautiful Mi ss TVVYSDEN," shared the int i ; k o ciety of Mrs. FITZFIERDERT and the Prince of 0 ,1 Her age, for she at this time had grandchildren , ° supposed regard for a poetical Lord, whose tal' vived and surpassed in the third generation, idea of her having any designs upon the Prl was clever and aspiring ; her beauty, in life, was rather changed in style than dimini her graces, natural and acquired, of mini which equalled, if they did not exceed, her pei were perfected in the great school of fr Court ; and it was soon proclaimed, by col scandal, that her relations with the Prince more tender than friendship. The first im quence was a separation between the Prir and Mrs. FITZHERBERT.—Life and Re, the Fourth. We understand the whole of the ments will be called out in England, ani month's training, it will he determined who' be permanently kept up. In all probabil4 the case; and several regiments, as is all will be sent to Ireland. The measure is one, since it will reduce greatly the numbek persons, and consequently remove a large pc)) ing discontent.--Brighton Gazette. A curious coup d'etat, of the has caused the failure of Itossim's Gui Berlin. This opera was put into rehears► ment did not much relish the name of a so noble and successful a struggle for ft music was applied to a translation of our the latter having been a loyal Austrian-61 posed to the tyranny of BONAPARTE, whirl more odious than that of the Court of when it became a question what colours we' to the French soldiers, the Prussian Minister In 1809, the year of HOFER'S resistance, tri-colour. At length it was determined vering over the caps of the grenadiers, by contrivance the tri-coloured cockade was ingenious a device exceedingly pleased the ce disgusted the people; and the failure of the P" g result. —Harmonicon. ltr A GOOD SHOT.-014 Monday 0' ow, ' SMITH, of Trengwainton, killed 261 brace 41 hours.— Western Luminary. The new satirical novel of " Th e ,. 4. pursuing its successful course, and carrying a i rs! 1 00 I :I breasts of many guilty persons in high as w e ' t i o us," That the consequences of gambling transac t' , o f d often of a fatal character, the mysterious de l ! oc iog ; / , / Nobleman is, it may be feared, a most conv i ti and the public in general will, no doubt, the hardy individual who has come forwar d . e f and ex Hose the deceptions of play. • al 51j 0 ,1411 ,d , 1 DUELLING.—One of the princP.ted 0 10 discussed in the present numb e r of the v o is p Journal, is that of du e lli ng , w hi c h is treste u t olli of moderation and good feeling, that can t he l e y'/ promote the laudable object sought, n amely' of r u t or . ) went of a plain, sensible, and manly s ysteni se o i s 70 for the prevention of hostile meetings t :g0 01 5 _,,0 0 , 4 provocation, and for rendering them less sa•TheS , ' $ f O o of a better ascertained equality of c halice: to s: 0 1. 4 parties, when they do occur. All persons °f of the fluctuating and uncertain nature vov., of principles followed in our existing " Lt ia - py which have occasioned the sacri fi ce of R . o . - pile if, life on occasions lamentably trivial, will ree p ° o tbs, of the present endeavour. It is, indeed , ° G r e e pti g mends itself in an especial manner to every Man of the World. - nan `ke a ccordi n 14 4 . t itan f et ()t h, and e o itiar hsi r el tivith that h.gaeration. tkh wher rel e Pens tl() ai rns 0 n tl L 'nk to th e" op, A CTH, th at eng ' O n L tre ap tie Publi, t et iti are a j ,1) .' ,, h) a nd Iri l '" 1 t11 1 but kli 4i 4 11 t o t ietl y )efor c 4 No plae ' seve n I \l A 4 t (tile 01l t()lid an t tea rel It, 905 a, 10 ritzets °l' Su, id ellogs''. 1,4,08 tsiitttnlgl'ing Co, ordr: )maligs, ' Insurance )m the 1r 84 _ 11 tIeR. rek . 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