The Sun. — London, England, 1831-09-22 00:00:00

Corairc ° ' peo, re was 11° tbe I.nt in , P u , s titutio , c 1 O re roui ) as untru e that tb° s o e t were °ti or , i 5 a tb y t 0 th at er s of. to 13° lee or do bona his cor", ra}s tre 3 " e , be w 5, proo dio la !rstan t , a g re , • the eft:et e, r that t t y4 l ect 4 I Members returned would never he expected to follow the written instructions of their constituents. Two most im portant effe c t s would follow—first, that the representa wish tiv es would, m ore t h an now, act up to t h e d ec l are d es of their constituents ; and, • secondly, that they Would more frequently and readily explain the motives and the reasons of their conduct. At present they ex plained these reasons only at the time of an election, but in future, he believed, a stricter accordance would exist be tween the constituents and their representatives. Mr. Can ning had said, that when that House took a decided stand, po- P t ularo pinion foll owe d i t . Th at might be true ; hut if it was, l e y Must have been b ecause t h e peop l e f e lt th e h o p e lessn e ss oust ; but if the observation was true from such a a n eause, how much more konourable and how much more -- ere a e h ri ee likely to h e th e following of popular opinion va it was f oun d ed ueon respect, not upon t h e hopeless °fess opposition but on a feeling of sympathy and re -Peet ? was fir from objecting to those who wished to repl „, On the Political .strength and constitutional stability in _ th .e Rouse of Lords ; why, if it were to be trusted reference to this Bill, was it not worthy of confidence With regard to other measures? If the power and inde- P t e V en ne of the House of Lords were good for this Bill, it t -3 ) !ood for all others ; and it was not possible, according t j a te argument on the other side, that it should he en miXred, since, if it were equal to present difficulties, it ✓ t defy all the perils of after times. If he were to enture to W ould , give one word of advice to their Lordships, it died. be to say to them, "Do not be deterred by menaces— fron'ir,ge Your duty with courage and fortitude—(Cheers th e y Opposition benches, returned by the Ministerial -1 " -- and avoid that worst, basest, and most abjct spe t:ar, cowardice, the fear of b ing thought afraid."—(Rei- Me t cheery from all sides.) If the House of Lords this in the it fair on anr i l d h i o n r : est spirit of deliberation—if it encountered Em u intelligible, and substanti anthi n n tlia and therefore even rejected it, they would have th at ,g to fear.—(Hear, hear.) 01 this . lie was sure, • tag people would respect an honest judgment ; and ge terul h'Y scorned a nominal concession, they would be for a genuine admission of their claims. In a con attitieiutional sense he would say this, that after the discussion question of Reform had undergone, the people would unqualified-ev content with anvthing less than full, free, and Ba justice. (Coniinued cheers.) I. a r- - ;AL WH LETORT and Sir C. ETERELL rose at the :l i f e° ti me) and e ac h stoo d up , am id s t grea t con f us i on , t o nf ni the attention of the Speaker, who decided in favour th n form er . His Lordship said he would trouble the th a t but for a few minutes, and began by congratulating th e R i ght Hon. G ent l eman w h o h a d j ust ta k en hi s seat on i t the n n ew light which had - so suddenly broken in upon him that • subject of R e f orm . —(H e ar, h e ar.) He admitted Of t here was a s t rong f ee li ng among th e peoplein favour ili rf° rnt ; hut lie denied that it was in favour of the 4. 4 , 0 t Or a that it co u ld b e cons id ere d p erm a ne nt, inasmuch ta t single d a y h a d b een a ll owe d f or ca l m deliberation Pla e : f d oors. Reform, h o w e ver, must and would take oa t s°n ner or lat er ; an d if t h e p resen t Bill w e re'thr o sn be ° Y the House of Lords, Ministers must be responsible tinreaatn C onsequences, because they had encouraged most 1 0 e c, "able expectations, that could not, and ought not, tanoca gratified. He accused Ministers of no little arro eo e . supposing that they could amend that happy ,fionstitution under which the country had so long th a u t risi rl , and expressed his earnest . hope and firm belief the Lill, House of Lords would do its duty, and reject Sir c. W ETHERELL, referring to what had fallen fromfrom the Right Hon. Gentleman who spoke last but one, resisted that if there had been any departure from modera -1,01:e(b),. " 11 e . oppo nents o f t h e Bill, it had been amply pro , i "Y the prov ocat i ons of its supporters. Language in strictly Parliamentary might be extremely insulting iri_ehar.i.eter and honour if deprived of its privilege of place. v particularly reminded the House of the words " • and vexatious delay," used by the King's Attorney hut I'dnot f• to be able to repeat other Phr ases pro ass th em, of the same description, as he had kept no notes ; although, had he done so, they would have formed - co o b„, erable schedule to be added, not , i n d ee d to the Bill, 1 ' to th e debates upon it.—(Hear.) The measure had tad a third time two days ago, and his reason for Z e l id ing to flood fact was, that it seemed instantly to have 1 ; 4,1 the -gates of Ministerial eloquence ; until then 0 , r e seem e d to have been a sort of embargo upon oratory f - e ; that side of the House—a quarantine to prevent the in speeeh-making.— ' (Laualiter.) Tonight th e ate t d 11011 . Gentleman had given the rein to his impatient l itho' and, knight-errant like, had ridden out a colonel nrtn,,to redress the wrongs of the weak and injured people 'ctn e i'•,! ara l. Last night the Hon. Member for Caine had °WA l i -r aa vr ard, and he (Sir C. Wetherell) must, in justice,. of Ilisplay e d a power of reasoning and a felicity * -- (Ca l e . -B , e , °2 , ° gY, equalled by few and excelled by none. that, ( I`, B ') This was only a part of the deluge of words tor te ur 'ng two whole Oays, had poured down like a "het n l i t e and overwhelmed the enemies of the measure; i aays l itte the d e lug e of old, it was to last for forty fo rty 4 ( 4h e ad -- 11 . ' eai nights, was yet a question, but, after what he was not without his apprehensions.— he w ers i and lau g ht er .) A s h e w a s not y e t quit e drown e d th e endeavour to answer a few of the points urged by cessi:ut Cientlemao. First, he bad rested the nc- Peit t 'r g ° ' c Reform upon the fact, that the commerce, pro hilt _ 4° , 4 Population of the kingdom had been doubled ; v/14; 1 ' 'Y thi s was a strange reason f or a d o pti ng a Bill sentativabridged the people of about thirty of their repre ,l4lcesait"---(Cheers.) He wished to hear where was the l ebr ate l for this diminution, and rem tainly, the most ce ttlafleit ad vocates of Parliamentary Reform had never co rntne a topic i n th e i r speec h es .. Th e mere f a ct that the Ore att re ! , weal t h, an d popu l at i on o f t h e inhabitants of garment " t ain had do u bl e d, was a most unanswerable ar ebe . o , t° those who wished the Members of the House to h ad sal ban at pr esen t. N ex t, th e Ri g ht H on . G en tl eman r enc e ', 511 of the S ess i ona l R eso l u ti on a ga i ns t th e i n t ei f e - N e h o °' Peers in elections, and had quoted the case of the 'ley'adof Worcester in the reign of Queen Anne; but if t •ee " b ecome matters of form, and were now of no Aegis!l v alidity, was that a sufficient reason for adopting aeo t i e ' v e enactment on the subject? The Right Hon. Yi e h led nian had talked of Cato and the people, who had t he C„, t° circum stances. Wh o , h e b egge d to i nqu i re , was his p la " c ` o e th et ii i f ere? Trea s ury Bench, and why had lie taken l'e t h a Cur in theatrum, Cato severe, venisti ?" r eply i' n ' he might conc l u d e t h e quota ti on , w hi c h was th e iai ert. lc , th e question of the epigrammatist—" An ne l're• 8. Again h e as k e d, w h o was th e C a t o o f th e flo ia `ZrY Bench w h o had yieHed to circumstances—the th e is, r t 'llor of the Exchequer, the Paymaster of the Forces, s " - (ll e t a ur \ n vY-Gene ta l, or th e Fi rs t L or d o f th e Ad m i ra l t y? „ ') Lucan asser t e d that— hUt 1 ,, h Vietrix room This placuit son vista Catoni s " ewas the H on . or Ri g h t Hon. Gentleman on the the ' of the House who would prefer, in this instance, t na,perceessful cause ?—( Cheers. ) T hey m i e l it a ll b e o ad, vd, hy the honest decision of the noise of Lords, r iot the unsuceessful rause—but assuredly it would lase r cy their own ' ' good will ; a n d they had shown, by Prel e e r s t , u L 't of the last Dublin election, that they did not the Iti;" k a t Side of the question. Another topic urged by t e i fon Gentleman was, that at one time the Lord the .csainqiie Por i ts had an nce. a o( s id nined the right Alem . bers ; was argument for , ° tef„ Ping the Cinque Ports, that the eegislature had ~.,'etil „ ,e ll„ and prevented the practice. He (Sir Charles ;vas •,-;'") contended that the very deformities the Bill lo ured " Wil ed to remedy were still most unaccountably al -114 L! ° :einain in the notorious instances of Caine, Ta . - !, t ietZ, - ' "latton, d Horsham, and that the 101. consti )l'4 st y "rea red by the n give no just knowledge of 2( 1 t lk Public opinion. The Right Hon. Gentle - man "'an e u of liis own d ndenee although representing ill Lolls • vroh er and electors at Norwich ; but certain it was, a f or certain p l aces on t h e b an k s o f t h e Th a m e s d oe n ti ° s t hoast th at they were equally free froth controul l vrnli ut e-- --(Clicers.) Hi s R H ight on. Friend, the xfoirtii Non;ich had said much of the want ofrri , o-• p r, v which th e opponents o f t h e 13:11 hail resis ed An"n i l i d 5 . B u t w h ere was it that h i s R i ght Hon. te Bill? I"en moderation on the part of the friends of ~"forma anti it in the public journals which supported ts.t'riet,e.i..' Government? or in the pamphlets of the linissed wiTat4dvisers?" or, in that in which it w•sTva it in th e Lords would do?—(Cheers ) as t he Pub ;cations which threatened the House of a tri ode ext ermination if they rejected the Bill that all :tight ration was to be found ?—(Clieei s.) Did los l 'ad b e , out to +A ". Fri en d read the other day the threat which tri ad in held V- •f gland by one of those erate advocates ofL Peers o , aies Retorm—that if they throw out the ity ? *e} should follow the fortunes of the French Nobi iee„,,---(Cheers oim nd‘ ,., Somne of those moderate Reformers na 4d their ilej' express terms, that if the Lords exer c, the to f ree discretion upon this question, that branch on, are should be set aside. Had his . Right 4(1 th e e ud read a Government newspaper—or in what which Character of being a Government paper—and to v nnt a ib uted was notorious certain very great persons h er nocer t e--(Loud cheers.) Had his Majesty's Go apea"--e or . the Att orney- G eneral seen in that news (ltecortn_ot In common print, but i n R oman capitals— ad thetrienclation plainly given to treason and mutiny ? inatot, r ead in th at an d ot h er papers the most inflam ho r t ns eco rnmendatio to that unh a p py class of men the at n ' th a va in the under the miserable delusion that the barns of their neighbours were the ob i jets on which they ought to wreak their vengeance for the wrongs they supposed to be done them ? In a word, were all the suggestions, cautions, and rumours held out to the House of Lords by the advocates of the Bill to be taken as opinions of the grave, argumentative, and prudent reasoning by which the nation was to be con vinced of the expediency and usefulness of that measure ? One smooth and moderate supporter of Reform modestly proposed that the House of Lords should at once be put into schedule A.—(Laughter.) But he had no doubt that his Majesty's Ministers would cut the connection with such friends.—(Laughter.) The Attorney-General, no doubt, would say, that it was very improper such at tacks should be made upon one branch of the Legislature, and that the vial of public vengeance should beheld up, ready to he poured out upon them ; and it would, of course, be said, that the Government were not parties to those insults upon the Peers. But he would ask them, did they or not think that the Press should be allowed to exercise the dominion which it was attempting to exer cise over the Legislature? Did they mean to make it part and parcel of the Constitution of England, that such a power should exist beyond the laws?—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Caine had alluded to the fate of the French nobility in the years 1792, 1793, and 1794. Now, if the House of Lords would t the a lesson from the example held cut as a warning to them, they would do well to remember that the 1 7 1 ouch Peers surrendered their privileges in obedience to the popular demands, and that they were deprived of their titled and lands, and expelled from their country, not because they refused to concede, but ii cause they had made the first concessions. He would, in that view of the matter, join with the Hon. Member in reminding the House of Lords of the calamities of the French Peers. It was said, in deed, that some of the Lords had voluntarily made great sacrifices for the Bill. For his part, he could not see whit it was that the Bedfords, the Lansdownes, and the Stani y's had given up without solicitation. What sacrifices had they made in Malton ?_(Clo ers.) What had they given up in Caine ? What concessions had they made in Hor sham ? If a list of all such sacrifices were well drawn up, it would make a pretty Schedule o—(Laughter)—ans the representatives of the boroughs in that Schedule might very aptly be called the representati ces of a cypher— (C eers)—of an algebraic negative—a something less than nothing..--(Cheers and laughter.) Malton would have fallen into the bottomless pit of Schedule A, bed it not been discovered to possess five good souls to save it.— (Laughter.) It had been thrown into the same pond with others, which were drowned ; but it was saved by having just length enough to keep its chin above water. When he heard the French Nobility so much spoken of, he must remind the House of Lords, to whom that caution was addressed, what had been in France the con sequences of concession to revolutionary demands. In the year 1791, the Franch King signed the first Consti tution, and in twelve months afterwards the rights, pri vileges, and property of the Peers were attacked. That illustrious personage (Egalite) of whom mention had been made more than once in the course of these discussions, had received a full measure of justice from the people— they had conferred upon him civic honours, but they did not stop there, and he shared the fate of all those who, by yielding too much to the demands of the multitude, be came the victims of their fury ; anti to that disposition to concession could be traced the causes of those events which led to the destruction of the splendid French Monarchy. It was acting, too, in the same spirit of concession, that the French Bishop by their non-resistance, became in effect accessary to their own imprisonment. He should now, with the permission of the House, call its attention to the two pi ineipal pamphlets written upon the subject of the present Bill—pamphlets marked by such identity of style that they have every evidence of having been be g oten by the same parent. There was so much unity of ,entintent, and such peculiar phraseology, that no man who read Loth could doubt that they had a common origin —he alluded to the " Friendly Advice to the Peers," and that with the title "What will the Lords do ?" One of these desired the Peers, Spiritual and Temporal, to look at the state of France, not for the purpose of imitation, but opposition. The month of September appeared to be fatal both to he French and the Britisb Constitutions. In this country they were at present Septemberising, and the year 1832 might prove as memorable in England as 1792 had proved in France. September had proved too holy a month even to be omitted from the Calendar of the Re volutions. The Hoe. and Learned Gentleman then pro ceeded to discuss the question of the 101. franchise, de scribing the manner in which a few influential indivi duals in a borough might obtain, by combination, as much power as at any time might be acquired by a Nobleman or a man of quality ; and he complained that the effect of the measure would be most unduly to increase the influence of the Great Seal. One of those pamphlets to which he had alluded, warned the Lords to look at what they were about, they might have forty or fifty new Peers sent in amongst them. Already a large batch had been created— some two or three and twenty, and some, too, it was threatened, might be sent from that House. The principle of the Bill, if it could be said to have any intelligible principle, was, that those who voted elsewhere should not vote in that House; while the author of the pamphlet in question recommended that the friends of the measure should first vote in the House of Commons, and afterwards in the House of Peers. But it would I.e said, argued the pamphleteer, that the House of Peers would thus be too l numerous; and the evil he proposed to remedy by render ing the whole body elective, like those of Scotland and Ireland. He wished to know how the country gentlemen 1 who were now supporting the Reform Bill would look when the new House of Commons should pass a Corn Bill, letting in foreign corn, without any remunerating price to the farmer of this country ?--(Cheers.) In his conscience he believed that Cromwell's Repunlic was less revolutionary and less radical than this new Constitution which was proposed by his Majesty's Ministers in a Bill which, in his opinion, was cileulated to subvert the Throne, the Monarchy, and the Church of this country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER then pre sented himself to the House, and addressed it as follows : Sir, after the long sitting which the House has had on this question, I must trust to its indulgence in the task I have now undertaken. After hearing several arguments against the Bill, I am anxious to address, and as I shall have to refer to arguments which have been used in three nights' debates, I fear I shell find great difficulty in mak ing such an arrangement of what 1 have to say as to ren der it char ; and in endeavourin; to do so, I fear that 1 must trespass for a longer period thin 1 usually do upon the patience of the House. Before I go into the general questi in, I may be permitted to advert to one or two to pics much alluded to, though somewhat apart from the general question. I would allude, in the first instance, to that has been said by the Hon and Learned Gentleman (Sir C. Wetherell) who has just sat clown. A great part of that Him. and Learned Gentleman's speech referred to the revolution of France. The Hon. and Learn, d Gen tiernan has said that the topic was introduced into time de• bate by my lion. Ft iend the Member for Caine (Mr. Ma caule) ); 1 believe, however, that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was mistaken. This topic has been mixed up with the whole course of the debates, and was first intro duc. d, I believe, by the Hon. and Learned Afeadier for Rye (Alr. Pemberton). The greatest part of the debate for the last three nights had been urged, apparently with a view of influencing the decision of the House of Loris rather than that of the House of Commons.—(Hear.; This course was also adopted by the Hon. and Learned Member for Rye, who made a most able speech, which appeared to ow to possess every quality that could give it a claim to the attention of the assembly it was addressed to ; and which 1, theteltire, beard with great wonder the Hon. Member for Thetford (Mr. Baring) characterise as a speech which proved the Hon. and Learned Member, who made it in competent to address a popular assembly.—(Hear.) This observation of the lion. Member for Thetfordw t o o uld beai, cer tainly lead we to suppose that he does nut a pp rec i ate what a pupil.: assembly is, or what arguments ought r l ed to it. My lion. Friend commenced his speech by praising the Constitution, and the Trial by Jury, and nf those praises I concur ; but he then went on to say, that if any Hon. Gentleman wished for popularity, or wished to please a popular assembly now-a-days, he had only to abuse the Constitution and the Trial by Jury. I was surprised to hear any gentleman say that the Trial by Jury is unpopular in this country.—(Hear, hear.) 1 know that one or two persons in this country object to it, hut I believe it is now, and I hope it always will continue to be, most popular throughout the country at large. Speaking of the change about to be intro duced by this Bill, and the danger to be apprehended from that change, my Hon. Friend asks, are we sure that under a reformed system we shall continue to enjoy the blessings we now have? I would answer this question by asking another of my Hon. Friend. Is he sure that, without a Reform, the blessings we now enjoy will be re tained by us?—(Loud cheers from the Ministerial side.) The feeling for Reform—the necessity fur it has grown gradually to its present extent, and every thing that has passed during the last year has tended to this result. My Hon. Friend (we believe the Noble Lord here alluded to Mr. Baring), stated that he is, and has always been, a Parliamentary Reformer, and 1 know that I have voted frequently with hint in favour of Reform; but if the ar guments he has used on this occasion were the only grounds on which I could form a judgment of his opinions, I should say that no gentleman could be more adverse to Reform, because the whale of his argument wai founded on the perfection of the present system. That system ttp peared to be so much the object of his admiration, that it did not appear to me that he supposed it could admit of any improvement. The Hon. Member for Thetford has asked to what period of our history we can go back to find such a re presentation as that about to be established by this Bill? The peculiar right of voting given by this Bill I know will not he found in any period of our history; but it we go to the principle on which the Bill is founded, we may find that, in the best periods of our history the same principle was adopted.—(Hear.) The principle is the more equal representation of the wealth, property, and po pulition of the country ; and that principle, I contend, Prevailed in the representation at former periods, though the machinery by which it was carried into effect was pre. ciaely or very nearly the same as that which now produces such different results. The plan of representation now proposed includes all the intelligence and property of the country, as fairly and fully as they can be included in any general measure. It is in the spirit of the Constitution, and we adopt and recognise that spirit when we propose to extend the constituency of the country.—(Cheers.) fhe arguments brought forward in this debate, I con ceive, go against all representation—properly so called. It is said that every interest now find what gentlemen are pleased to call a representation in this House. It may be true that persons belonging to every great interest can find their way into this House by means of the borough system. But is it nothing that a person connected with any particular interest has that interest repre sented in this House, by one in whose nomination to represent that interest he has no choice ? Has be not a right to choose whether his interest is to be repre sented by some one of his own class of life and his own business, rather than by one who may have no sym pathy with him. I apprehend that a person so situated would think it a great advantage that he should have something to say in the choice of the person who was to represent the particular interest with which he happened to be identified, rather than that the representative should sit for some borough with which the person whose easel am putting has no connection, anti over which he has no contreul.—(Hear, hear.) My Hon. and Gall int Friend (Sir J. Malcolm) proposed that there should be repre sentatives for India ; and I heard him make that propo sition with great surprise, for I knew from what I heard !din say on previous occasions. as well as from conversa tions which we have had together, that he did not feel that the population of India were in a fit state, as re garded intelligence and education, to enable them to choose fit representatives if the power was entrusted to them. Upon looking more considerately into the pro position of my Hon. anti Gallant Friend, however, I find he is consistent with himself and his former arguments. As he thinks that Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds may be properly represented by Members chosen for Got ten and Old Sarum, so he thinks that the people of India can he properly represented by Mernlers chosen in Leaden hall-street.—(Hear, hear.) Sir J. MALCOLM said across the table, I did not say the people of India, I said theer interests. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—Just so. My Hon. and Gallant Friend thinks that as the interests of the inhabitants of Manchester, Birmingham, and Leeds are fully represented by the Members for Gatton and Old Sarum, so the interest of the people of India may be re presented by the proprietors of India stock. I don't say that they might not be proper representatives as regards Indian affairs, though not as regards the feelings and in terests of the people. If the Members for Gotten and Old Sarum however are fit representatives for Birmingham and Manßester, upon the same principle they are fit re presentatives for India ; and the people of India may do without any additional representation. Returning to the arguments of the Hon. and Learned Member for Rye (Mr. Pemberton), lie says tint the public expectation is so ex extravagant and has been so much raised on this question, that even if the Bill passes, there will be danger from the reaction arising from the disappointment of those hopes and expectations which the people have indulged in, sup posing the Bill to be carried into effect. Now I doubt much whether the public expectation has been raised to so extravagant a pitch as the Hon. and Learned Gentleman supposes. Ido not believe that the people, who have shown such an anxiety for this measure, expect such great and wonderful effect from it as the Hon. Gentlemen opposite wish to suppose. I believe that this Bill will give the people such an influence in this House as will cause clue attention to their inteteste, and that if this cannot produce any very great im mediate good, it will yet prevent the recurrence of the evils under which they have suffered. And as to reaction in their desire, if such took place, what would be the cure far it? Why at once to reject the Bill. But, Sir, I be lieve the effect the BIP will produce to he this, that if the people do not attain great good, they will be more satisfied under sufferings and distress when they have their own representatives than when they are legislated for by those over whom they have no controul.—(Hear, hear.) My Hon. Friend, the Member for Thetford, asked a question, which, he said, he had never heard answered, namely, how the Government was to be carried on when this Bill was passed—how Ministers were to be chosen, and how they could get on with the public business? It is certainly true that then, more titan at present, the Administration of lie day must be popular, and I cannot see why any dif ficulty should be apprehended as to their not having seats in this House. The largest portion of the Ministry must, I take it for granted, be already Members of this House, and Members who will, on a popular change of Adminis tration, he re chosen. This, therefore, is not a practical evil of such a character as to cause the rejection of this Bill. But, suppose the Ministry once seated, then there is the less difficulty. But I would ask my 111 m. Fritni whether the difficulty of an Administration going on now without Reform will not be infinitely greater than that of securing seats to Mini-tors after the passing of this Bill ?—(Lothl cheers.) My Honourable Friend also said that we now left a few close boroughs, and thus constituted an oligarchy which must have great power, forgetting that there was such a thing now in existence ; hut it appears strange to roe that their power should be geeater, when reduced, than it is now in its plenitude.— This is, in fact, as notch as to say that a Rat will De greater than the whole, anti that, the lesser the number of this body, the greater will be its power.—(Chee rs. ) It is also said that we are now about to demolish th e Constitution, but, as was well expressed by a Noble Friend near me, the Constitution, after this Bill, will stand as it lees now . all the writers on our laws and institutions. It will still stand en the three estates—the King. Lords, and Com mons.—(Cheers.) And as to the diminution of the in fluence of property—of aristocracy, properly . so called, I mean property--I do believe that no Act of Parliament which ever has, or ever will pass, could dimiulsh that in fluence in this country. Undoubtedly, this Bill will spread it over the whole country. At present, that influence is confined to those only who are proprietors of boroughs, and therefore the reason urged by toy Hon. Friend why this change will lead to a democracy's—namely , that power should be equal to property, is entirely aeainst for this is exactly what the Bill will give.—( Hear.) Much has been said with respect to the House of Lords—that it is un- possible that House can stand after this House shall become a purely popular represent itien, for my Hon. Friend has said th it there is no instance in history of a purely popular assembly co-existing with a King and Aristocracy. Very true, but the experiment had never been trio,'. —(Cheers front the Opposition,) There was something like it hi this country, when the representation was more like a real representation of the country, and its feelings and its intelligence. The Government then went on well, and, therefore 1 can see no reason why this House, when it does really represent the country, should at once destroy those institutions to which the people are attached, and which are only supported by their attach ment and their veneration. The power of the House of Lords consists in its proper ineuence, and is based upon public opinion. It also consists in its share of the Legis lation but no one attempts to take that from it.—(Cheers.) But the great argument, in favour of the House of Peers, deperCs on the knowledge the people have of the benefit which is derived from having one branch of the Legislature independent both of the molar voice and of the Crown. The House of Lords can be in no danger while it retains hold of public opinion, aad therefore there is no reason why, from the passing of this Bill, it should lose that weight which it has, and which I hope it ever will pos sess, in the Government of this country. Another argu ment to which I shall apply myself, though I forget by whom it was used, is this statement—viz. that the effect of making the Government of the country more democratic, so far from preventing great expence, aial rendering as less liable to wars, would, on the contrary, be that we should be the more lik e l y to enter i nto war ra s hl y , an d to get out of it dishonourably. Ido not know from what source of experience or from what part of history this conclusion is drawn. If we look to the greatest republic in the world r have e been r daysoout the suchov de we see that there n o suc h d anger ex i sts ; an d I d o h ope n that wn e are now progressing fast towards that state when the wi s d om , t h e goo d f eel i ng, and t h e goo d sense of mail kind will ren d er us di sinclined to war, anti that the wast ing p assion o f glory, as i t is called, will be estimated as it nunh m n---(Leuel cheers.) if we do see that the republic of fo tvrtrth o t h a e n r d people, l t e o , e esire in modern ni f e o r r nrepublics; hgettingv fmtao'satr perseveringwitli dish dishonour, hostilities. republics I tlia sa generally lso been said th a t t h e e ff ect o f th i s B i ll w i ll b e to cause an in crease of bribe ry at e l ect i ons , b u t I cannot see h ow such 'c r e an effect trill he its result: There are provisions in it which have a tendency directly the reverse. That for the shortening the duration of the polls will act so, for bri bery always increases in proportion to the length of time the polls are kept open. The different places of voting will act in the same way, and the raising of the qualification of voting will also be a security against bribery. It has been said that the contrary will be the case, because in large towns the right of voting has been bestowed upon a very low class; hut in the large towns bribery will be less likely to occur. I do not say it never does occur, but it will not be I ikely,hecause bribing a few voters will produce no effect,and in the small towns the voters will now be of a higher and more respectable class. One Honourable Member has complained that this provision trill increise the influence of landlords, and that, if A and B have 100 houses each, they can join and return theaMembers. But the'cases in which weekly and poor tenants are allowed to vote, are only those of large towns, where if A and B and all the letters of the alphabet, were combined, they would not produce any such effect as is stated.—(Hear, hear.) My Right lion. Friend, the Member for Montgomeryshire, has told me how far he would be willing to reform, and I am very glad to hear him, as, although we had the benefit of his vote for the second reading of the Bill, yet in Committee, I believe, he opposed every one of its clauses. My Right Hon. Friend has found fault with this Bill, as being too extensive ; but I say that, if we did not go as far as we have gone, we should have done what is charged against this Bill—we should have made a change which would not he permanent. I hope and trust that the Bill will be permanent. I do not believe, perhaps, that all reasons for discontent will cease ; but neither do I believe that some boroughs being left to return two Members, and possessing a smaller number of voters thin some of the large new boroughs, will lead to such discontent as will make the people call, as they now loudly do, for change. The Hon. and Learned Gentle man opposite his, in his rather lengthened speech— (A laugh)—addressed the main portion of it to the subject of the French Revolution, of some of the events of which he says he was an eye-witness. For myself I was at the period but a boy, and only recollecting the horror with which I was struck at the disgraceful and ca lamitous events which marked its progress, I, of course cannot speak with authority on the subject. But this, at least, is evident, that the state of France before the revo lution was as different as it is possible to conceive from the state of this country at present..—.(Loud cheers.) When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that the Nobles of France suffered from giving up their privileges, lie should also recollect how long those privileges had ground and oppressed the people ; and that, although there were traitors amongst that class, yet it was not until long after the revolution had begun that the Nobles gave up their privileges. The revolution began in 1789, and it was to the period of 1792 that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman addressed himself. Danger has been dwelt upon, and danger there undoubtedly may be, for it cannot be ques tioned that there is always danger in delaying until you ran no longer refuse; fur in the first instance you excite the people's indignation, and in the last, their contempt.— ( Cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in reply to my Right lion. Friend's argument, referred to the increase of wealth and population, which my Right Hon. Friend urged as a reason for a change; and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman has asked how we can reconcile this increase with a diminution in the number of this House ? I cannot see how this reasoning ap plies as the number of representatives, but I do see that, if the number of the people has increased, it is a very good reason why the number of the con stituency should be enlarged —(hear.) But the ques tion here is, will the number that is to sit in Parliament be sufficient to do the business of the country, extended as it is in wealth and population ? No man can doubt that it w ill. Then it is asked, what have we done with the other Membeis ? We declared that, when we abolished the small boroughs, we also gave representatives to the large unrepresented constituencies, and the only way in which we could preserve our former number would b e to rennin some of those boroughs which ought not to keep the power of returning Members. The lion. and Learned Gentleman, when speaking of cases of deformity, says that we still retain those deformities, and that Caine and Horsham, and Halton, are examples. But the lion. and Learned Gentleman should recollect that in the Com mittee all these topics were repeatedly discussed ; and 1 believe that, after the passing of this Bill, the interests of those who now possess the chief power in these boroughs will cease. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman shakes his head ; but I think I have as good information on this point as he can have, and I have every reason to believe that the interests now predominant in these places will, if they do not come altogether to an end, be very greatly di minished. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman also ad dressed a great part of his speech against the pamphlets and newspapers, and he also said that he was glad that the gentlemen at this side of the House were, at length, glowed to speak ; hut it is, therefore, rather odd that he should not reply to the speeches here, but to the pamphlets out of doors.—(Loud cheers.) The Hon. and Learned Gentle man must be aware that these publications carnot by any passibility he under the controul of the Government; but I must say that, however I disapprove of the violence of som e passages in these publications, still this umst be ever the case while popular rights are under discussion ; and on the Catholic question I am qiiite sure there was lan guage made use of quite as violent as any in the strongest of these publications. We can have no controul ovt r those who agree with us in general politics; and their opinions, and the expression of them, is totally out of our power. I have now stated the different points to which I wished to call the attention of this House. We are now at the close of a great and most important discussion, and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman had accused us at this side of great violence of language. If I were to give my opinio n of the whole discussion, I should say that never was there a question of such importance, and one which necessarily gave rise to party feeling —never, I say, was there such a discussion conducted with so much good temp er and discretion. Undoubtedly hard words have been used, but they have been used at least as much on one side as the other. I might perhaps quote a few spe cimens, but it is not the way to produce moderation to quote ; and if hard words have been used, I am ready, if they have been uttered against the Government, fully to pardon them, and I hope our opponents will freely do the same.—(Loud and long-continued cheers.) This is a question, which, whether looked upon with friendly or with hostile views, is one of so much importance, that no man can form an opinion without being eager in its support. I have long been of opinion that it was essential to tee peace and good government of the empire that the state of our representation should be considered, and that we should see whether the state of that representation should not be made more real and more accordant with the the of the Constitution. It appears to me that this Bill will have this effect. We take away representation from places that are not worthy of it —we give it to laige manufacturing towns—while we increase the county representation in a larger proportion, and taitik the apprehension which the Honourable and Learn e d G e n t leman attempts to raise, that this Bill will destroy the landed interest , is entirely chimed cal. Indeed 1 have been accused of the contrary, for having supported the division of counties, as being a too great increase of the power of that interest. What I did ;,,y on that subject was, that the power of the landed in terest would be increased by doubling the number of county Members ; and whether that took place by the di vision of counties, or otherwise, the same effect would flu e. There is no danger to the landed interest. The H o n. and Learned Gentleman speaks as if there was no on e to defend the landed interest but the county Alembers. But one of the complaints against the Bill is, that it would loca li se representati on ; and if this be so, then country gentlemen wi ll be the repres en t at i ves o f the smaller bo • a nd they will h ave their influence and their weight in tliC country. Feeling this to be the case, and that we v to e thesy s n t l e a m n u f a a v e h t i u c n l g hop :ln de alsoand trustliast propose g le i r l i ,e a d r u e e p vv re e se ig n i t lta t to the landed interest feeling thus, I am eager in its de fence, and I now feel great happiness that we are so near the conclusion of our I.bour.—(The Noble Lord sat down amidst enthusiastic cheering.) Sir R. PEEL rose to address the House, but gave way to Sir JAMES SCARLETT, who explained that he had never said that the Trial by Jury was l• • country. He hid only said that the way to get popula rity at present was to attack all institutions of the emir:try. On his taking his seat there was great calling for Sir Robert Peel, but Mr. BARING rose to explain, though his explanation was not beard in the gallery. Si ; ROBERT PEEL began by alluding to the late ness of the hour (nearly two o'clock), and that the best way to ensure himself the indulgence of the House was to be as short as possible, and he would be Very short, considering the momentous importance of the question under discussion. He would not enter into the details of the Bill, which had been discussed in a most masterly and unanswerable man nor, and be would forego the exciting topics of the French Revolution ; lie would not enter into the details, because one of the least important of the effects of the Bill would be that the Bill would be impracticable. The only point lin which he agreed with the Noble Lord was in his wish that the memory of 4riy hard words might be obliterated; 'and he would say for himself and those gentlemen around him, that, if any personal expressions had escaped them, it was in the vehemence of debate, and without any inten tion of inflicting personal pain. He had listened with ereat attention to the speech of the Noble Lord, as he entered into a varieiy of details, and he must say that that speech had disappointed him. He ex pected that the Noble Lord would have shown that some great practical evils resulted from the present system of representation, and he expected that the Noble Lord would have explained in what manner the mighty change he re commended the House to adopt would remedy those evils. He had expected a great statesmanlike discussion on the evils of that representation, to ascertain whether these evils were inherent in our Constitution, or whether they arose from the constitution of human nature, and could not possibly be got rid of, but must exist whatever form of representation were adopted. He expected that the Noble Lord would have shown the practical evils of the present system, and the probable results that great change proposed, and bow it would operate to prevent these evils. That was the occasion, if ever, for making such a state. merit ; but the Noble Lord had not taken any such view. —(Hear, hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had, in making this great change, contented himself by saying, that the Lords and the Monarchy would remain unaltered. Oh ! Sir, exclaimed the Right Hon. Baronet, what is that to rne, that the Noble Lord leaves in existence the nominal authority of the Lords and the Sovereign—(Cheers)—and takes away all substantial power, and when all that autho rety which they possessed in a mixed Government was not preserved ? At what time, he asked, at what period of history, and in what country, was power usurped, whether by an individual tyrant or by popular assemblies—at what time or what country, was power usurped, and the forms of other institutions not suffered to exist ? In the Roman history—in the history of France—in the history of this country, the name of the old institutions, of the popular assembly, of the Kingly office, were preserved in name— an unreal mockery substituting the unsubstantial pageant of a dishonest homage for what they destroyed, because they felt that they could not violate the feelings of man kind with too rude a hand.—(Cheers ) Where was the populous assembly in which a monopolizing power did not feel it convenient to preserve the forms of the Monarchy ? The National Assembly, when it usurped the judicial and executive authorities, did not annihilate at once the name and pageant of a King ; but ~ Upon his head they placed a fruitless Crown, And put a barren sceptre in his hand." They did not think it right to abolish the Monarchy at once. No, they kept in temporary existence the pageant of the Monarchy, aware that they would shock public feeling if they did not wait for an opportunity of slowly weaning the people from their ancient habits. It was no satisfaction to him to hear that the Peerage and the Mo narchy were not to be annihilated, when:no person could show him that, concurrently with the great change to be made in the House of Commons, measures were taken that the real aad substantial power attributed by the Constitu tion to the Monarch and the Peerage might be main tained. The Noble Lord sail that the change proposed in the House of Commons had no democratic tendency. But if ever there was a change which tended to increase the Idemocracy by the influence of positive institutions on the one baud, and by removing every check and controul on the popular will to which we had been accustomed on the other, it was the change now proposed to be made. It was the greatest change that ever was deliberately made in any country, at any time; and from his conscience he believed it was made without the smallest necessity.— (Cheers.) It was the greatest change ever made, though, as the Noble Lord said, they adhered to the forms of the Constitution. They transferred power from one class to another—from one rank to another ; they added to the popular power on the one side, without diminishing it on the other by any popular subduction. In the first place, the change greatly exceeds the principles of the authors of the change. If it were granted that the time had arrived when the nomination boroughs ought to be done away, when the boroughs in Schedule A and Sche dule B must of necessity be disfranchised, where was the necessity of altering the whole constituent body of every county, of every city, and of every town in the whole United Kingdom? If the alteration in the constituent body were not necessary, what necessity was there for altering all the limits and boundaries of every town in the kingdom, or rather, giving power into the hands of cer tain Commissioners to alter them; and if that were not necessary, where was the necessity of altering the relative proportions of the Members for the different parts of the United Kingdom, which bad been long established ? Where was the necessity for making all these changes ex cept in the minds of those who desired change for the sake of change itself? According to their own principle every one of these changes were unnecessary. The Bill was bad when it went into the Committee, and the Opposition had laboured assiduously to mitigate its evils ; but they had failed. He would, however, do justice to the Noble Lords ; they had also endeavoured to mitigate the evils of their Bill, but they too had failed. It was true that they had decided against the weekly payment clause—(Cheers) —and here was the danger—there was a power extrinsic greater than they were which exercised a controul over them, and stopped them in the first step towards their plan of mitigation. The Noble Lord had established an uni form right of voting, and that right went to introduce a far greater change than be had contemplated. Could any man say what was the character of that new constituency of 10/. householders? Had they inquired of the Magi strates in the towns what they thought of these 101. house holders? But where they were most to be dreaded— where they were most densely crowded together—where the influence of the Press was most powerful, there they had given the greatest power to the 101. householders ; and there this change, which gave votes to those who paid 3s. 10d, per week, would be most dangerous and fatal. There was great danger in conferring votes on such people.— (Cheers.) Had they inquired into the respect which these people had for property? If no inquiries had been made amongst these people, how could anybody answer for them? i They had proceeded as far as the clause with respect to the weekly tenants was concerned, in complete ignorance of the subject, for he knew, on the best authority, that in Manchester no one would accept the securities of a weekly tenant, whatever might be the amount of rent which he paid.—(Hear, hear.) While at the same time they displayed this ignorance of the subjects with which they were (healing, and while they had those great changes, they had at the same time swept away all those parts of the representation which offered a check to the influence of popular will, or controuled the force of po pular passion. —(Hear, hear.) He did not then mean to contend that Corporations were good or bad, but this be would say, that the Corporation Members gave a controul to the popular passions, and exercised a salutary influence in checking the violent ebullitions of popular - zeal.— (Hear.) While, however, they were discussion; this Bill, they seemed to forget that there were two other Bills to succeed it, which altered the Scotch representation, which, whether good or had, was always notoriously 0,,- posed to violent popular changes, and checked the popular vehemence ; and they were at the same time sweeping away that amended representation of Ireland which three years age) had been devised as the very best means of affording a salutary influence to property, and a security , for the power of the Church of England.—(Hear.) But in addition to all this, the influence of the Peerage in that House was also to be destroyed ; so that at the time when they were preparing to increase the power of the people in selecting the Members of the representation, they were also diminishing to a great extent, by every means, the influence of the Aristocracy.—(Hear, hear.) But it was said in the course of the debates, that there would still be this consolation left—that if the power of the Lords in the House of Commons was destroyed, as they con tended it ought to he, the House of Lards would be set up in all the plenitudes of en independent jurisdiction. Indirect influence, it was contended, must be abandoned, as contrary to the principles of the Constitution, but no rue at the commencement of these debates had ventured to assert that the independent authority of the Lords was to be curtailed. Bat what was the case now? Why it was now avowed, with the language of menace and vitu peration, that if the House of Lords dared to judge for itself with respect to the Bill, or presumed to act con trary to the commands of the Commons, they ran the risk of sealing their own destruction.—(Cheers.) He would not call this revolution, for it might be offensive; but he would ask them to consider what a change must have taken place in the opinions of men by the progress of these discussions, when one of the sworn legal advisers of the Crown, the Solicitor-General for In-land, had that night also given it as his deliberate opinion that it was compe tent for that House to act without the House of Lords— (Cheers)—andthat should the Lords exercise their inde pendent right, and reject the Bill, that House might ad dress issuing writs th eC ro s f v o n r t a o ny dissolve places the l%l i ch Parliament, il is Majesty's should think it fit t o dispense with.—(Louth cheers.) So then they and the ir constituents owed their exi s t ence pure l y to a majo r ity.—(Cheers.) Th e H un . and Learned Gen itlieerunctii:dn% to be sure, om i tte d Milborne Port from this but he condemned Garton, without recol lecting that the contributions to the State, even of Gotten, were greater than those of Milborne Port.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The opinions of the Hon. Member had, it was true, been diselaitned by the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government ; but the respect which he (Sir R. Peel) felt for the 11350 and for his office, led him to believe that the lion. 'Member ceuld not have made such a d•elifee rate declaration, if a material change with respect to t he House of Lords had not taken place in the ruiteis even of well-judging people.—.(Hear.) He repeated, therefore, that popular authority was increased, while all salutary checks were on the eve of demolition. It was not for hm h m etn, t t ls o say o elsewhere, einug veht , haetr a et g fea h te t be et certainly ai t nl he ll y thew working aschangeso ppn ef i sen te d, made eo n i e tn w h eG system an.ten altera tions tions now proposed, unless they produced some strone to public opinion ; hut before he did so, he should like to tting have something definite befere him as to the extent of for r p f ioortof of t the alli b s e e o t i f i Commons, from erso,intineces sity.t h a i t t to h o e andtn people t d o‘ that e p r el v er a undervalue '' e ve c rhes o theandgnpi change g propriety o aa w p tri r a s i s fiu e t em u y d n e n a nw y f t unavoidable, i o fi e their wishes ; and he should like also to know the value of the sacrifice he was called on to make.—(Hear, hear.) He was willing to make the sacrifice, but he must first he convinced that it would prove a permanent benefit to those who demanded it. Surely, however, something more was required from the representative than the passive obedience to the will of the represented.—(Hear, hear.) They in verted the order of society when they yielded, without having their reason convinced, to the clamours of the people.—(llear, hear.) sand one of the greatest objec tions he had to their so yielding, without conviction and without absolute necessity, was, that these de mands, thus yielded to, would be of perpetual recurrence.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was easy to say that the people were always the best judges of their own interests. He knew it was unpopular to contradict that assertion, but he did contradict it.—(Cheers.) If in private life be saw individuals—the gambler, for instance, or the spendthrift—always the best judges of their int!. rests, always governed by reason, and inaccessible to the influence of violent and destructive passions, he might be inclined to yield to the assertion that large bodies were always the hest judges of their own interests ; hut know ing how much such bodies were under the influence of sudden prejudices and violent excitement, he objected to the removal of those checks which experience had proved to he so salutary. It was said, however, that the theory of the Constitution was not preserved, and that the system was full of injurious anomalies. Why, all institutions were full of anomalies. The Noble Lord was, be believed, a great admirer of the Jury system, and had declared, that nothing could induce him to give it up. If a foreigner, however, unacquainted with our institutions, was told that a matter of civil contest was to be referred to twelve men who must all agree, and if they could not do so readily that they were to be starved into agreement, he (Sir R. Peel) was sure that such a man would pronounce the Jury system a monstrous and ridiculous anomaly which should' not be suffered to exist in a country boa s ti ng o f civili zation. Gibbon, too, said that the greatest of all anomalies was a hereditary Monarchy, where a mere child was frequently called to govern a people possessing numbers of great Generals and Statesmen who were so mach fitter to command respect to their rule.—(Cheers.) The hereditary Peerage was also a great anomaly.— ( Hear, hear.) A mixed Government was an anomaly ; but yet he was by no means disposed to regret all times, things because they were so. The Hon. Member for Tivistock (Mr. Hawkins), who had pelted the House for half an hour with prepared antitheses and inflated meta phors, for which he would find that the day was gone ny —(Cheers and laughter)—had asked why they objected to the anomalies of the new Constitution and passed over those of the old ? Why, it was because they were old.—(Hear.) There was a material difference between those which had existed for ages, and those which they were now about to sanction with their adoption.—(Hear.) He was not quite sure, either, that those which had existed for centuries were anoseeelles.—( Hear.) The feelings with which thee' were regarded were about the same as those with which the people would contemplate the honours of the Russells, the Howards, and the Cavendishes compared with his pa tent of Nubility if he had been sent up to the House of Lords to support the Reform Bill.—(Loud and general cheering.) Tie Hon. Member for Caine (Mr. Macauley), in a speech of great force, had endeavoured, as before, to prove the extent of the evil- which the Bill would remedy ; hut, as before, he had failed to convince him that the Bill would have any such effect. —(hear, hear.) The old Constitution to which they wished to return had not reined manna on the people, nor did he think the new one could do much to relieve the distresses of the people. Under the old Constitution there were monopolies and exclusions, even with all the advantasses of perfect re presentation. But, said the Hon. Merriher, there was one thing they wanted, anti that was perfect freedom ire the accumulation of property, and perfect liberty in the enjoyment of it. Have they or have they not had a per fect freedom of accumulation, and perfect liberty in the enjoyment of property under the old Constitution Y. (Cheers.) But then, said the Hon. anti Learned Mem ber for Caine, the Reform would give a security aeainst war. Against war.—(Cheers and laughter.) It was lather an extraordinary proposition to advance, that after having been for fifteen years at peace under the unreformed Parliament, they were to have a reformed Parliament to prevent their going to war. Fifteen years ago it s-ems they should have passed the Reform Bill, for the sake of pro curing peace at the time thai they had peace.—(Hear, and a laugh.) These were aegu inents—(A laugh) —at least they were put forth as such.--(Hear.) Then they were told they wanted the destruction of monopolies and free trade. If there was any thing in which the unreformed Corn.. mons had made itself most unpopular, it was this very question of free trade ; and he doubte i much whether th - e :most ardent prayers and the most strenuous exertions of the IW. householders of Woreseeter, and Monmouth, and Macclesfield would not ha directed to the continuance. of the exclusive system, rather than to the promtitien of freedom of trade.—(Cheers.) Then the Hon. Mem ber said they wanted improvements in legal jurisdic tion ; but he appealed to the evidenc e of the last thir teen years to show that the House hal not been inat tentive even to that subject. Then there was the Beer Bill paned by that House ten the principles of this free trade, which was, it seems, so mild' desired by the people, and what was the result? Why, that his Majesty's Government in the other Howse, were at that moment occupied in devising means to limit those freedoms which they themselves conceded to the beer sellers.— (Heat, hear.) Again, the House, endeavouring to adel to the comforts of the people, had abolished the use of spring guns in gardens, at the suggestion of the lion. Member for Stamford (Mr. Tennyson), and what hail been the to silt ? Why that a Bill was at that moment before them, introduced by the Hon. !!ember's colleague, for the par tial revival of the use of spring guns.--(lleats) Thus in two cases where the unreformed Parliament had proved toe liberal in granting relief to the poor, and in complying with the wishes of the people ; in two case, where they had allowed the Government to proceed without a check or controul in its information, the same liberal and Re ortned Go: cm were now of in an endeavour to correct the evils which had arisen from a compliance with their wishes.—(Clouds.) The Hight lion. Goa tleman then again applied himself to the question of war„ and having ridiculed the arguments used by the Member for Caine on that su. , ject, he c,ontentled that was was not within the power of Government, and that if at the time Bonaparte had a camp at Boulogne, in the year 1805, the. Government had refused to provide the means of resie tance, an indignant people would have compelled them to do en. Adverting to the expenditure which had been in curred during the late War, he acknowledged that it had been great ; but an were the objects for which the war it n 130 tie arn h ‘vfr a ai d i,tii crawler; on. he peed l regretted c o ie(e n )t e(aid ebhohhueesaettl institutions t i s,:i t upil u f,iloa r tiit e sittibiea i aao n ri ttirl et posterity —at ntt year he elrs - tt o ci f irel rn yoo i s i ;i t i a di r f y nt d olt e ) e,,, sp p o t t uo ia pt m leLf thh l ee f, lp l i i en o op w pe, •e l terhse,egyrt regretted depetini their clopaitoe:llartti:essanitititcauhT):ete.t. glory oh would l the ablest at t t o t r tn i uto; t h i l : f e taxation could not be denied ; hut Ire ihmitadtnhoteltirecy had the authority of Mr. Rimini° anti Sir Henry Parnell for declaring—that the people of this country were taxed less in proportion to their means, than the people of any country in the werld. The Right lion. Baronet here read an extract from Sir H. Pernell's work, entitled, " Fi nancial Reform," in which the author t.poke of the ener gies whirls existed in this country, and treated the diffi culties under whiele it was labouring as temporary in their character. How, with such opinions, the Rig-ht H e m B e . ronet could call upon him (Sir R. Peel) to censent to alter the Constitution of the country he seas at a loss to con ceive. To the ,c.htahni thing, beforeeg ,t n ht n he w ye rre p efo r t t ir i r p ee, o d s h e fen d opttlit was raleoiz: s o i s i s p i , e i f r him to consent. He had no plan of Reform himself to om e e propose ; but lie had no difficulty in saying that that coma prehended in the Bill on the tilde tended to the uproot' ag of all the most valuable institutions of our anceetere. Of this, too, he was certain, that the arguments welch bad been urged by the Reformers of the present day against those ancient institutions would be urged by the Reformers of a future day against the new plan which it as c -q? o t of the establish. B thatill, On cl i t o e r e tn r , • . maintain s ed 'y which the security of the State had neer , on t r di ePs‘:snu sniping-piece, P d i ear ti d el t iv s : they would at least etude .vour . om th e ramparts. twtett against their new b form of renee rry missile would be directed sentation, wh enever le w i t h st. Oa time grounds, Le Mt it hit tidy the people twenty-four eproluvni:deneyrthttohime,,,,irgafri::i.:4Peisdr