The Sun. — London, England, 1827-03-06 00:00:00

much evil was felt as the Noble Lord had stated. He knew o' several examples of unanimity between the Catholic and Pro testants as to the palish expenoes; and, in one instance, a sum of monr. , which had been left in the hands of the thurch wardens, being more than was required, was given by, a vote of the Vestry to the Parish Prieit, to assist in building a Catholic Church. Lord CLIFDEN acknowledged that the Act of last Session, was intended to give relief to the Catholics, but it was so badly drawn, that the remedy of appeal which it had given could not be used. What he thought the Catholics might justly complain of was, that the Cathedrals and Churches, when they were taken from the Catholics and were given to the Protestants, were in good repair, and had large revenues for keeping them in repair; but these revenues had been otherwise employed, and now the Catholics were taxed to repair and rebuild the Churches. This was monstrous injustice. If the Catholics had been allowed to retain their churches; they would have frequented them and kept them in repair. The appeal, also, of which their Lordships had heard, could only be made to Protestant Magistrates, who, perhaps, had an interest in the matter. The Earl of LIMERICK explained, that the Ca thedrals were in fact employed as parish churches, and as such were repaired by the parish. Lord KING explained, that he did not think 501. a year too much for a clergyman performing the early service ; but he thought 1001. or 1501. a year too much when levied on Ca tholics to pay two clergymen of the Established Church for per forming early service in a church in which there was no congre gation. He was afraid also, that the unanimity and concord of which the Rev. Prelate had spoken existed some time ago, and was not at present to he found. Lord CARBERY said a few words, explaining the law relative to building churches, which were not distinctly heard below the bar. We understood his Lordship to say, that the Ca tholics would not he taxed to build a new church, nor to repair an old one, unless it had been built 25 years. Viscount STRANGFORD did not mean to fol low the Noble Baron through all his statements; but he happened to he at Dublin last Easter, and at the Church of St. Thomas, instead of the two old women mentioned, he saw a congregation of 400 communicants, and at twelve o'clock there were 800 pre sent. What then became of the Noble Baron's assertion, that the two women were paid to form a congregation ? What was the value also, he would ask, of the Noble Baron's remark as to the sum paid for sacramental wine ? Was 281. too much when there were SOO communicants ? Lord KING said he was not surprised at the num ber of communicants at that period, which ought not to be taken as a criterion of the number of persons who generally comma- nicated. The petition was then read and laid on the table. Mr. Johnstone, from the London Dock Company, presented at the bar, the accounts of that Company from November, 1825, to November, 1826. The Earl of DARLINGTON presented a peti tion from the Ship-owne':a of Newcastle and South Shields, pray ing their Lordships ti e appoint a Committee to inquire into the Navigation LatvP._Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS, MARCH 5. The Speaker took the Chair at four o'clock.—About twenty Members took the oaths and their seats ; among them we noticed Mr. Coke, Lord £brington, and Lord Lasceiles. that the appendage of signatures in that manner was no ground to charge a petition with inaccuracy. Although, strictly speak ing, no petition was supposed to be presented, which did not con tain the names affixed to it, in the handwriting of the subscri bers, yet it was permitted that a signature, such as the Hon. Member described, should be taken as a test that the names had been originally appended to the prayer. As to the petitions be ing in the same - band, it was by no means an unusual circum stance, nor did it invalidate the petition itself ; because the signa ture was a test, that the original petition had been agreed to by the petitioners. _ _ CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. Mr. COKE presented a petition signed by the Archdeacons of Norwich and Sudbury, and by 2,000 of the Clergy of the diocese of Norwich, praying for the removal of the Mr. TIERNEY, observing that the petition was in two sheets, wished to know, whether both sheets had been sent round to those who placed their names to its prayer ? Mr. H. MAXWELL said, that copies of the Pa rochial petitions had been sent round to every parish, so that every person who signed it had an opportunity of knowing what he signed. The petitions were then read, and ordered to be printed. The SPEAKER, when the petition was brought up, took the opportunity to remark, that the prayer was repeated at the bottom of the petition, so that those who signed could under stand its tenor, without examining the whole. Mr. G. MOORE presented a petition from Dub lin, against the Catholic Claims. Mr. H. GRATTAN, as the colleague of the Right Hon. Member, thought it necessary to say, that although the petition was signed by a number of respectable persons, resi dent in Dublin, yet he knew that the most considerable portion of the wealth, talent, and rank of the Protestant inhabitants of that city were favourable to the Catholic cause.—The petition was then ordered to be printed. Petitions in favour of Catholic Emancipation were presented by Sir J. Newport from the Roman Catholic Inhabitants of the Province of Munster ; by Mr. Brownlov - , from the Protestant Traders, Merchants, and Bankers, of the Town of Belfast. The Hon. Member observed, that this petition was signed by men possessed of two millions of property, who prayed the House to take into their serious consideration the penal state of the laws regarding Roman Catholics.—The petition was ordered to be printed. Similar petitions were also presented by Mr. Brownlow, Mr. Power, Mr. Canning, Mr. R. Martin, Earl Bective, Mr. R. King, Mr. Portman, and Mr. V. Stuart. Petitions against any further concessions to Roman Catholics were then presented by Sir J. BRIDGES, from Denham, in Essex. Mr. WILSON from York, Tadcaster, and Boston. A Member whose name we could not learn, trusted, that the first of the three petitions just presented would not be received, as the petition of the Inhabitants of the City of York. It was merely signed by about forty persons, and had been got up, not at a Public Meeting of the citizens, but in such a private manner, as entitled him to describe it as a " hole and corner petition." The petitions were all received and read. Others to the same effect were then presented by Mr. R. FOUNTAINE WILS 3N, from Wether by, in Yorkshire : Mr. Waring Maxwell, from Down; Sir John Astley, from Warminster ; Mr. G. Bankes, from Portland ; Lord Oxinantown, from King's County ; Mr. G. H. Smith, from the Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of Colchester—and also two others from the County of Surrey ; Mr. Hart Davis, from several parishes in the City of Bristol ; Mr. Wm. King, from Monaghan; Lord Edward Somerset, from Clifton, in Glouces tershire ; Mr. Willoughby, from Newark-upon-Trent, in Not tinghamshire ; Mr. Curteis, from Sussex ; Mr. Stuart, from Tyrone; Mr. Wells (who made a few observations, which, from the very confused state of the House, were quite inaudible in the Gallery), from Maidstone, in Kent ; Lord Stopford, from Wexford.. disabilities affecting his Majesty's Roman Catholic subjects. The petition, after a few words from Mr. WODEII()USE in support of it, was ordered to lie on the table, and to be printed. Petitions against any ffirther concessions to the Catholics, were CATHOLIC EMANCIPATION. presented from the Archdeacon and Clergy of Exeter, and from Sir F. BURDETT said, that when he recollected six parishes in the neighbourhood of Exeter. the numerous and important discussions which at different tin-es Mr. E. S. COOPER presented a petition from this great question had undergone; when he recollected that the Sligo, praying that no further concessions may be made to the cause of the Catholics had received the sanction of the most emi- Roman Catholics. nent men of the country ; when he recollected that it had been sup- Mr. H. KING su orted the ray of the etition. ported by Burke, by Fox, by Pitt, by Sheridan, and "last, not least," pp p p by Grattan ; when he recollected that almost every individual di Mr. V. FITZGERALD took that opportunity of tinguished for his intellect, had added his authority to the great ra - n stating, that a petition signed by a great majority of the Protestant mass of opinion in its favour it appeared to him that that Inhabitants of the County he had the honour to represent (Clare). must be possessed of singular confidence who, without the most was on its way to his hands, but by some fatality, he had not re- mature deliberation, and the most profound reflection, and also ceived it in time to lay it before the House that night. He begged, without the means and the ability to account for and justify his however, to declare, that he had reason to believe it contained the conviction, could make up his mind, against such a weight of ' au signatures of a v a st m a jo r ity of the property and rank of the Pro- thority, to resist the motion with which he (Sir F. Burdett) testant Inhabitants, praying that the Catholics may be permitted to should have the honour to conclude. Let it also be recollected enjoy their civil and political rights. a that all the great men whom he had enumerated, and many more The petition from Sligo was then ordered to be printed. than it was possible for him to enumerate, must be considered as Lord C. MANNERS presented a petition from possessing more authority from the fact, that on almost all other Ely, against the Catholic Claims. subjects they were at variance. Many of them were in situations IVIr. ASHURST presented a petition from Ox- in which ambition, be it good or be it bad, operated as a power ful incitement on their minds ; but on this subject where there ford, against any further concessions to the Catholics, and from was no alloy of ambition in the motive by which they were ac- Oxfordshire,.with the same prayer. Sir KNATCHBULL presented petitions mated, where the course they were pursuing was the reverse of popular, where they had to stem the tide o long-established pre against the Catholics from Rochester, Ashford, and several other judices, they risked every other consideration, and advocated a places in Kent, and from a parish in Lincolnshire. cause from advocating which they could hope for no advantage Mr.LYTTLETON, in presenting a petition from except the gratification of their own feeling of the importance, of the. Workmen of the Staffordshire Potteries, against the Roman the justice, and of the policy of concession. —(Hear, hear, har ) Catholics, said, he could not at all agree in the prayer of the peti - Their authority was therefore doubled. It was not merely e the tioners ; but, as their petition was the only one presented from authority of their intellect, but it was also the authoritytheir of that county, he hoped it would not be considered too great a tres - conviction of what was due to a sense of right, an to the pub pass upon the attention of the House, if he requested that it might lie , good and interest. It must be moreover considered that be read at length. the great men to whom he had alluded had removed all the The petition was then read, and ordered to be printed. principal difficulties by which the subject had been environed. A Member (we believe Sir J. WROTTESLEY) They had dispelled the clouds of ignorance, they bad turned the said, that from being particularly connected with the county of current of misrepresentation, they had•left the Legislature to fol- Stafford, he was able to say a great majority of its inhabitants low the dictates of pure reason, unere-urabered by that learned were in favour of concessions to their Catholic fellow-subjects. lore which it had required the efforts of their extraordinary powers (Hear, hear.) to remove. Such had been their labours ; so that, at the present day, the question was reduced to one of a plain, simple, common- Sir D. PARNELL presented a great many peti tions from Meath, Athboy, Tyrone, Killala, and othe r p laces, sense, practical nature. At the same time, a n d while he de praying the House to relieve them from their politica l and civil scribed the authority by which the cause of the C a tholics had been disabilities. sustained, it must not be forgotten that their claims rested on the Mr. H. HUTCHINSON presented similar peti- strong and solid lfouadation—if good faith was a strong and solid foundation of a "treaty •, as well as on considerations of reason , . tions from Cork. policy, and expediency. He hoped he should be able to describe Capt. HUTCHINSON presented a• petition from the true grounds on which the question stood. But, before he en- Tipperary, in favour of the Catholic Claims. e t red into any examination of them , he begged leave to implorethe Mr. I. BERNARD presented a similar petition House to come to the discussion with minds free from all those feel from Ballyboy, in the King's County. ings of irritation and prejudice which he was sorry to observe on a Mr. H. MAXWELL presented petitions from late occasion seemed to he but too prevalent. He intreated them't o Kilmore, Donoughmore, and Nlonaglian, against the Catholic lay aside all personal feeling, and not to substitute it for argu- Claims. Upon the question that the petitions be brought up, ment in considering the wisdom of the g reat measure u p on which Mr. H. GRATTAN rose and said, that before he they were now called upon to determine.—(Hear !)—Every can permitted these petitions to be received, he would be glad to know did man must be disposed to admit that , where the passions had b if they were signed by the persons whose opinions they pretended been long and strongly excited, where expectations had been long and painfully delayed, where interests of the greatest magnitude to represent ; for, if they were not so signed, he believed he was in order when he said that they could not be received, and that it were at stake, occurrences might and must occasionally take place that all must lamest. Much had be en d one , an d s till more was the duty of the Chair to take care that they were not , unless the forms of the House were observed. The Honourable Gentle - had been said, which no man could go the length of justifying ; and although perhaps less had been done and said than under man presented, on Friday, twenty-seven petitions from different such circumstances might have been expected, yet there was no parishes, against the Catholic Claims, and, as it was asserted, doubt much which was deeply to be deplored. All these considera numerously signed. Now, be had taken the trouble to look them lions, however, would, he trusted, be allowed to merge in the over at the Office, and he found that to fifteen of them there was merits of the great and important question on which the House no signature whatever .--( Hear , hear, hear !)—He was sure, how had now to pronounce; and from a deliberate examination of ever, that the Hon. Gentleman was not aware of these circum which he trusted they would not be turned by the influence of stances, and that he must have presented them in that state any interests comparatively unimportant.—(Hear, hear, hear !) from inadvertence. Six of the petitions professed to be from The Honourable Member for the county of Derry had told the the inhabitants of Kilbride, and some other places, and they House that he would open to-night the first page of a new his were signed only by William Maxwell and Henry Maxwell , 111. P. and J. P.—(Hear, hear !)—The petition from Kil- tory of Ireland. He (Sir Francis Burdett) hoped that the new history of Ireland would not be like the old one ; he hoped lesandra had only one signature underneath the words " The pe that it would not be "atrox 'monis, discors seditionibus ;" titioners have hereunto subscribed," and that signature was Farn but that it would be a history of peace, and of conciliation, ham—Lord Farnham, Governor.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—That and safety, and happiness, to all parties.—(Hear, hear, hear !) signature was in the handwriting of the Noble Lord, but he be -It had frequently been objected to time Catholics, that their lieved (as we understood) that the other signatures were not in religion was inconsistent with civil liberty, and many men, the hand-writing of the Hon. Member. All the petitions were, otherwise of liberal minds, possessed with that opinion, opposed however, in the same hand-writing, and as it was contrary to law any further concession to them. But who that called to mind that printed petitions should be presented, the petitioners seemed the conduct of our Catholic forefathers, of those men of great to have taken care, that if their petitions could not emanate from renown to whom we were indebted for the civil liberty which the same press, that at all events they should be the work of the we enjoyed, but must concur in lamenting that names which same clerk. He should therefore beg to know whether the peti rendered illustrious every page of our history, names without spot tions then presented had any signatures, in order that it might not or stain of any kind, should at the present day stand as the ap go forth to the world that many petitions were received , nume pellations of a proscribed race ?—(Hear, hear, hear !)--While roualy signed, when, in fact, they had no signatures at all ; a pre we boasted of the Institutions for which we were indebted to caution he thought the more necessary, when so many exertions their glorious efforts--Institations which no true Englishman were made to lead the young English Members to believe that would surrender but with life—lnstitutions which, while they the majority of the Protestants of Ireland were hostile to the claims of their Catholic fellow-countrymen. constituted our own security and happiness, were the admiration The SPEAKER said it was undoubtedly his duty of the world—we withheld justice from the descendants of their immortal founders.—(Hear, bear!) —When the House recol to take care that no petitions were received in that House which lected, that even under all the disadvantages and disabilities un mig ' ht be either informal in their construction, or inconsistent in der which the Catholics of the present day laboured, they never their prayer ; but he would first beg to ask the Hon. Member failed us in the hour of peril and of combat ; when they recol one question—whether he intended to say that the fifteen peti- lected that many of the names of the heroes of Cressy and Agin tions of which he spoke were without any signature at all ? or court, were also the names of the heroes of Waterloo (the name whether they were not presented on the authority of certain sig of Howard came at once strongly on hi memory) ; when they natures, which were supposed to be annexed to them.—(Hear.) also recollected that the Catholics disclaimed the imputations of Mr. H. GRATTAN admitted that there were subservience.to a foreign power which had been Cast upon them; some signatures on detached pieces of paper.—(Loud shouts of when they recollected the conduct of our Catholic forefathers " gear, hear.") towards that power to which the Catholics of the present - The SPEAKER beggea to explain to the House, i day were supposed to be slavishly submissive; he thought they would feel ashamed of longer withholding from them a full participation in the civil rights of their countrymen.—(Hear, hear, hear!)—Let the House only look at the reign of Edward the First, when the Pope endeavoured to interfere with the temporal concerns of England ; and when that Monarch re plied that he would not admit of any interference in his king dom, on the part of the See of Home. On that occasion, the Barons of England wrote a letter to the Pope, of which he (Sir F. Burdett) had brought a copy with him to the House, al though he would not trouble them by reading rret.e than one or two sentences, which, however, could leave no doubt on the mind of any impartial man that the Catholics of that period were not such submissive slaves to the Papal Authority as some persons supposed. The Honourable Baronet proceeded to read from the Barons' letter several paragraphs, the substance of which was as follows :—" Our Lord the King will by no means he an swerable judicially to you regarding his rights of the kingdom, or any of his other temporalities; nor will he submit to your sen tence in any manner, or allow his aforesaid rights to be questioned; nor will he send for that purpose Procurators or Messengers to your presence ; particularly when the premises would manifestly lead to the diminution of the right of the Crown, and Royal dignity of England, and to the notorious subversion of the state of that kingdom, and also to the prejudice of the liberty, customs and paternal laws, to the observance and defence of which, in con formity with the oath taken we are bound ; and that which we are in possession of, we will, with the assistance of God, defend with our whole power and strength. Neither do we permit, nor shall we in any manner permit, as we cannot and ought not to permit, the King our Lord aforesaid to do, or he any manner to attempt to do, even if willing, such unusual, undue, prejudicial and otherwise unheard-of things." He had quoted this letter merely to show that the idea of submission to any extent to the See of Rome by the Catholics had b'v'i at all times unfounded.— With respect to the particular disqualifications under which the Catholics at present laboured, the House would do well to call to mind the circumstances in which those disqualifications originated; and if it should appear, as in his opinion it must inevitably appear to every candid and impartial man, that those circumstances were insufficient to justify their infliction, it would be evident a fortiori, that to continue to inflict on our Catholic country men a punishment, the alleged cause for wh;eli, at the time of its origin was preposterous, would he altogether unjustifiable.— Let it be recollected, that the act of depriving the Roman Catho lics of the power of holding certain situations in the State arose in the time of Charles the Second, out of what was called the Popish Plot. Let it also be recollected that at the present day little weight was attached to that plot; although he would not say that at the period he alluded to no danger was to be apprehended to the Protestant interest, the King upon the throne being a pen sioner of France, and the next successor a Roman Catholic. Cm necting the notions of civil liberty with religious doctrine, it was, perhaps, not surprising that, conceiving that all they valued was at stake, the best and wisest men of that day proceeded to excesses of which, if they lived at present, they would be greatly ashamed. When it was recollected that most of the measures which were adopted at that period were, to say the best of them, measures of doubtful justice ; when it was recollected that the party spirit of that period brought so good, so just, and so virtuous a man as Lord Russell to the block ; when it was recollected that the dis qualifications of the Catholics were attributable to the same de scription of feelings to which the shedding of that Noble blood was to be ascribed ; when it was recollected that within a short period from the present moment Parliament had reviewed and reversed the attainder of that innocent and unfortunate Noble man Lord Stafford; and when it was recollected that by that act the Legiilature deliberately acknowledged the injustice of the times in which the Catholic disqualifications originated ; he trusted that it would not be too much to ask the House, especially after the decision of three preceding Houses of Commons, to think of some little reparation, some attempt at recompence, to the descendants of those who were so unjustly used ; some effort to rescue the country from the stigma which that usage had impressed upon it—(Hear, hear, hear !)—With respect to the present claims of the Catholics of Ireland, he begged leave to say, that he thought the House was hound by considerations of good faith to grant them. He al luded to the Treaty of Limerick, When he had formerly asserted that, in his opinion the Catholics of Ireland were entitled by the Treaty of Limerick to the enjoyment of a full participation in all the civil rights of the community, the Right Honourable the Se cretary of State for the Home Department had said that he (Mr. Peel) put a different interpretation upon the stipulations of that Treaty, which appeared to him not to extend to public rights, but to be confined merely to private property; and also intimated that if it were required by considerations of good faith, he would certainly give the Catholics the benefit of the Treaty. Now it was important to remark the words of the Treaty ; and to him it appeared that nothing could be plainer. The Treaty began thus : " The Roman Catholics of this kingdom shall enjoy such privileges in the exercise of their religion as are consistent with the laws of Ireland ; or as they did enjoy in the reign of King Charles the Second." After stipulating fur the secure possession of their• estates of freehold and inheritance, the Treaty proceeded, —" And all the rights, titles, and interests, privileges, and im munities, which they, and every or any of them held, enjoyed, or were rightfully and lawfully entitled to in the reign of King Charles the Second." Mr. Secretary PEEL observed across the table, that the stipulations of the Treaty did not refer to the Catholics generally ; but only to those who were resident in Limerick, or any other garrison then in the possession of the Irish. (Ted them from England ;" and that " nothing could equal the provocation the Catholics had received, particularly from that race of conquerors, the Corporation of Dublin." As to the wish of the Government of this country not to have their repime dis turbed by the affairs of Ireland, it was in vain. Ireland hid risen into too great importance not to trouble us if we did not tiike just and proper means to prevent her from doing so. The days had passed away when Ireland could be neglected with impunity. The interests of Ireland were now among the most vital interests of the Empire. Until within a few years indeed the condition of Ireland was most abject ; the laws were dreadfully oppressive, and were efficiently administered. It was Mr. Pitt who saw the advan tage of introducing a system of conciliation ; and of endeavour ing to raise the people of Ireland in the scale of humanity.— The Government of England had thought proper to pursue a system of gradual concession to the Irish Catholics, which had rendered them fit to receive a full participation in all the bene fits of the Constitution; it had elevated their minds to the highest pitch of refinement ; it had made them susceptible of the keenest impressions of their injuries; it had given them the sense of knowing their wrongs ; and if the House refused to do them that justice MIMI he (Sir Francis Burdett) demanded in their behalf, nothing could be inure unwise than the conduct that had been pursued towards them. Those who, by their measures, had brought the Catholics to the highest degree of improvement which qualified them to enjoy every civil right, and honourable distinction, must have had in view that goal at which the House had new arrived ; they must have meant to complete and crown theft work by that great, that just and wise measure, now under the consideration of Parliament. No thing could be more wise, nothing could be more humane, than by degrees to raise up a fallen people ; nothing could be more just and politic than to loosen the fetters that bound them to the earth ; to strike off their shackles one by one ; to free them by degrees, until they were at length fit for complete and full action. Mr. Pitt evidently had this great final object constantly in his view ; but, unluckily, he began his work at the wrong end. It was contended by those who opposed Catholic Eman cipation, that it was too much to admit them into seats in Parliament, and to extend political rights to the lowest people.— Perhaps it was worse to follow the course they were following, in relieving the people, and giving them power, whilst they denied to the upper classes those reasonable and just rights to which they were certainly entitled. It was the most preposterous thing that could be imagined, to take from the Catholics those cruel laws which prevented their acquiring landed property and exercising liberal professions, but which bound their minds to their condi tion, and accustomed them to bear their wrongs, if it was not in tended at a subsequent period to grant them the full benefits of that station, for which the removal of those cruel laws had qualified them. Having been rendered free, except to the ex isting impediments, the genius of Ireland had made a rapid stride—the Roman Catholics of that country were in no wise inferior to the Protestants, in every intellectual acquirement, or in every moral excellence, and they had succeeded in ac quiring power and wealth. England had already extended to the lowest people political power, and, by the measure pro posed, no addition of such power would be conferred upon them. When the Government had given the rights of election to the people generally, it was quite preposterous to prevent a few Ca tholic Gentlemen being elected to seats in the House of Commons, or to prevent Catholic Noblemen taking their seats in the House of Peers. It was surprising that gentlemen, who professed themselves followers of Mr. Pitt, and adopters of his principles, should abandon the views of Mr. Pitt upon this great question ; the greatest of his whole Administration, and upon the promise of carrying which he accomplished the Union between England and Ireland. Their respect for the authority of that Statesman ceased just at the point wh-are his authority would be of the greatest ser vice to the State—there it was they cast him off.—(Cheers.) — With all their pretended veneration for their former leader, upon this subject they acted as if he had been a childish Statesman, who was supposed to have no weight. The opinions of Mr. Pitt upon this subject did not admit of the slightest doubt. All persons who knew any thing of the state of the two countries at the time of the Union, must perfectly well know to what a height animosities were then carried ; and that the desired union of Ireland with this country never would have been effected bet by the promise of re lieving the Irish Roman Catholics from their disabilities. That relief had been hopelessly contended for in Parliaments chosen agreeably to the political system of that country ; and the Catho lics thought that, supported by the great authority and talents of Mr. Pitt, and by all the circumstae m then concurring in their favour, they should obtain Emancipation. They were bnoyel up in their hopes by Mr. Pitt professing to do all in his poWer to effect their liberation. They reposed the greatest confidence in the assurances of that Statesman ; and it was an act of shame and disgrace if their hopes were finally destroyed. Mr. Pitt had thought that Catholic Emancipation was indispensable to the . safety and welfare of both countries. Finding he could not achieve the object, he thought it totally inconsistent with his duty, and a violation of honour, to continue any longer in office. InlBol Mr. Pitt had said to the Catholics, that as for the merits of the question, he and some of his colleagues felt it incumbent upon them to declare the necessity of effecting Catholic Emancipation ; and as such great opposition was made to the measure, he felt it impossible, with respect to his duty and honour, any longer to remain part of the Administration. In another paper, Mr. Pitt declared that he had retired from his Majesty's service because he had not been able to bring forward this measure in his Minis terial capacity. Mr. Pitt had assured the Catholics that he had done the utmost to establish their cause. In his address to the Catholics he said, " the Catholic Body will prudently consider their prospects as arising from the persons who now espouse their interests, and compare them with those which they could look to from any other quarter. They may with confidence rely on the zealous support of all those who retire, and of many who remain in office, when it can he given with a prospect of success. They may be assured that Mr. Pitt will do his utmost to establish their cause in the public favour (though he could not concur in a hope less attempt to force it now), and prepare the way for their finally attaining their object." He (Sir Francis Burdett) had no doubt that that was the opinion of Mr. Pitt, and that the Catholics generally confided in his promises, and be lieved that the Union would enable him to perform them. In fact, unless this measure was carried, no real union between the two•countries could be said to take place. A mere Act of Parliament could unite no countries whatever. Mr. Pitt con templated that union which would alone take place when the Catholic Question was carried—a union not of words or form; but a union of heart, of interest—this sort of union could alone produce such results as Mr. Pitt proposed ; a union which would give prosperity to Ireland, and introduce into that country capital, and many of those effects which he, at that time, contemplated, but which never could take place under the circumstances in which Ireland was now held. Unless the great measure of Catholic Emancipation was car ried, Ireland would never cease to be what she was at the exist ing moment, a perpetual cause of embarrassment to England--a ceaseless drain upon her finances, instead of a source of happiness and strength. There did not exist a people more int,lligent than the Irish. They, possessed every natural advantage a nation could possibly possess. It was an indelible disgrace to England, that she should be in possession of so fine a people to work upon, end draw from them no better results. It was a reproach to an En-. glishman, wherever he showed himself (hear, hear, hear!). The Government of Ireland had always been modified to meet the views of an interested and predominant faction in that country. Eve n as a measure of economy, England ought to oppose what Mr.-Burke called that " Junta of jobbers which had so long held an-ascen dency over Ireland." They had:possessed Ireland as their property, pursued, ed were Irelandsure as a fertile source of profitable jobbing, from th e Government of Lord Chesterfield to that of Lord Cornwallis. It was their interest to blow up the coals of civil discord, and the refore the y o pp osed Emancipation, and every measure that cou ld p roduce union and tob prosperity.e gainers. nt coursewhatever ere this, would have been making am p le returns to the g eneral welfare of the Empire. She would have been p ourin g wealth int of o the beingla pof a England,shame strengthening her r esources ; in steadand disgrace to her name, she would have and had been up, p they constituted her honour and glory—instead of a perpetual drain upon her resources, she would have presented an inexhaustible fund of . riches—instead of presenting a point of attack to the enemy, She would have been a bulwark of defence.—(Loud cheers.) --It was out of the power of any man to imagine a worse system of Government than that pursued towards Ire land. No considerate or rational men could calculate upon the continuance of the state of things which at present existed. So far from it, they had heard from persons of every variety of opinion—from men actuated by the most opposite motiies, and of feelings the most hostile, that ' the present state of things could not be allowed to 'continue much longer. Whatever difference existed amongst men connected with Ireland, or acquainted with her ,affairs, in this point they all most readily and cordially agreed.—(Hear, hear, hear !) He (Sir Francis) would say to all those who opposed the measure be had now the honour of supporting, " if you will not agree with what is prposed, the country has a right to call upon you for some other proposition."—(Cheers.)—They had been brought to a crisis, a point at which things could not Sir F. BURDETT maintained, that the Treaty was not confined in its operation, as the Right Hon. Secretary contended. But the article to, which he wished especially to call the attention of the House was the ninth. As if the Catho lics had anticipated the present injustice respecting the oaths re quired from them, they took care to stipulate in that article, that the oath to be administered to such Roman Catholics as submit ted to their Majesties' Government, should be the oath of alle giance, and no other.—(Hear, hear, hear.) Now how could it be said that we had preserved good faith with the Catholics, when at present it was only by requiring other oaths than the oath of allegiance that we excluded Roman Catholics from the Houses of Parliament, and from various situations of trust and dignity— (Hear, hear, hear.)? In his construction of this part of the Treaty of Limerick, it was impossible but that the Right Hon. Gentleman must concur with him. If the Right Hon. Gentle contended that the Treaty referred only to those Irish who were in arms, he must at least allow that some of those Catholics had descendants, who were entitled to the conditions made with their progenitors. But so to limit the application of the Treaty was contrary to all reason and probability. It would be most mon strous and preposterous that those who were not in arms, those who had given the least offence, should be divested of the advan tages which were conceded to their more hostile countrymen.--- He felt himself therefore perfectly justified in contending that in pursuance of the Treaty of Limerick, no other oath ought ever to have been imposed upon the Catholics of Ireland but the oath of allegianee.---(Hear, hear.) With respect to the Catholics of Eng land, they were among the best and most irreproachable members of the community. Their conduct as a public body, and their charac ter as private individuals, were such as to render their exclu sion from civil rights utterly unjustifiable. If the House would look at the names of the English Catholics they would at once recognise some of the most illustrious in our annals. No class of his Majesty's subjects could stand the test of scrutiny into their public and private lives more triumphantly than the Catholics of England. And yet these very persons, who were omni excep tions majores," were in a worse condition even than the Catholics of Ireland ! All their good conduct had obtained for them nothing. How could the House with common decency pretend to refuse the Claims of the Catholics of Ireland because those Claims had been pressed in a manner not quite palatable (which was natural enough considering their irritation of feeling) ; while at the same time they did not place another portion of Catholics against whom no similar accusation had ever been preferred, even on equal terms with the Catholics of Ireland ! Was not that to proclaim to the Catholics of England that they ought to take a different course ; for that so long as they chose to lie down and he trampled upon, trampled upon they would be.—(Hear, hear, hear.)--When he recollected how tenacious this country had al ways pretended to be of its good faith, he felt ashamed to reflect that the only persons with whom it had not kept faith were so large a portion of its own population. It was but a few days ago that it was declared in that House, that the good faith of England was pledged to maintain the family of Braganza on the throne of Portugal. No one, whatever he might think of the policy of adhering to the Treaty, denied that good faith required us to do so. By that Treaty we had formed an alliance with the people of Portugal. But was not an alliance with the people of Ireland of infinitely more importance to us - than an alliance with the people of Portugal.—(Hear, hear, hear.)? --Simply by doing an act of justice, we might cement a most valuable alliance with six mil lions of faithful and attached Catholics in Ireland, an event that would be incalculably more beneficial to this country than an alliance formed in any other part of the world.-- - -(Hear, hear, hear. )—Coming down to a later period, he was sorry to say with Mr. Burke, " that he had never known any of the suc cessive Governments, in his time, influenced by any passion rela tive to Ireland than the wish that they should hear of it, and of its concerns, as little as possible ;" that the Government " had abandoned Ireland to a junta of jobbers, who endeavoured to secure to - themselves lucrative repose against the factions who might oppose them there, or the rivals who might want to suc • Mr. Burke's Letters, forming an Appendix to " A Letter to the Right Hon. G. Canning, on the Present State of the Ca tholic Question, from R. Therry, of the Honourable Society of Gray's Inn." possibly remain. They had arrived at that juncture Ours: foreseen, and always intended by those who had watched the pi' . . gress of Ireland—a juncture anticipated, as that in which Cat lie Emancipation could be and ought to be conceded. He tru; that the House he then addressed might be the happy means el completing that great system of policy which would unite tb r kingdom in constitutional bonds, and eradicate the discord whirl had grown out of a difference in speculative opinions. Of all aie• mosities, those proceeding from religious differences were the on&, preposterous the most irrational, and load alway s b ee n att e nded with the greatest possible misfortunes. He would not sacrifice truth to national vanity, but he would say, that England stood first of ell nations that had ever existed, in point of intellect, information and general instruction. In other countries, persons of every relk gion were participators in the general benefits of the Government' whilst in England alone was to be found a system of religious excite sion. England having arrived at her elevation of grandeur, was tO be degraded by this cause, into a mark for the finger of scorn tO , point at. No other Government was jealous of its subjects ort 0' eount of a difference of religious opinions. There was a different. in a degree, but no difference in principle, between the religion' persecutions of yore, the burning at the faggot, and the penalties , the stigma, and the disadvantages now imposed in England on ats count of religion. The principle was the same, whether the obj e ct of persecution was obtained by pains and penalties, by disqualifi.. cations, or by pointing out the persons to society, as not fit t° be trusted like other men. In France, in Spain, all over the world, a difference of civil rights has ceased to be made on Recount of a difference of religious opinions. Catholics and Protestants , persons of every religious denomination, live together in friendshiP in other countries. They associate as good neighbours, as god friends, and are faithful to each other in all the duties of life. Tio man asked another what religion he was of. All partook of the general advantages, for all had to bear the common burthens.--- England was the only exception. He did trust that the House would not retrograde from what former Houses of Parliament bad done, but would give efficacy to their preceding decisions, by ecs lieving England from the burthene arising from the way in whiclt Ireland was managed. He would ask what were the supposed dangers to arise out of Emancipation? He would maintain that the measure before the House would give the Catholics ne power in addition to that which they already possessed. The effect would be only to remove from them the stigma under which they had so long laboured. If Emancipation did not g ive the Catholics an addition of power, he would tell the House what it would give. It would give power to the King—it would restore to him a part of his ancient prerogative. The preseat state of the Catholic law took from the King the power of employe ing persons of all religions. The circumstances under which he he.d been deprived of that power no longer existed. The rea eons under which the Roman Catholics had been deprived of their liberties were as ancient as obsolete, and absurd as the be lief in ghosts and witches. They could not evoke the Pretender from his grave. The reasons for which these disqualifications were enacted, bad long ceased to exist. That phantom of fear —the apprehension of the Pope—ought to have vanished when the realities ceased. It was a curious part of the subject, that the portion of the Cabinet which was most opposed to the Cae tkolic Claims, must be the least apprehensive of any danger arising from the Pope, otherwise they were of all men the most culpable. They, and they alone, had set up the Popei when he was recently cast down. English soldiers were noeunte ing geard to protect this Pope—this phantom, which was 66 td fright the isle from her propriety." Ireland, under her prevent management, was a greater danger to England than the Pope. The risk of irritating six millions of men was really a dangers He believed that was the only danger connected with the subject. In 1525, could the thunders of the Vatican shake even the most unsteady apprehension ? People argued the question as if the cir cumstances of the twelfth or thirteenth century still existed. They never carried their ideas to their own times. What are the dangers of granting Emancipation to the Catholics? The mea sure he had to propose had only the effect of giving power to the King to employ lois Catholic subjects if he pleased. It would give power to four or five of the most illustrious families in Eng land to take their seats in the House of Peers. It would enable a few Irish Gentlemen to be elected to that House. , Could there . be any greater danger in either of these circumstances ? Was any danger that could possibly be supposed to arise from these cir cumstances equal to dissatisfying six millions of subjects? " Cu randum in primis ne magna injuria fiat fortibus ac miseriss" Whilst he warned the House of thissdanger he did not mean to say that it would reallyl .ppen. If they did'an injustice to the Catholics of Ireland he did not believe that they would be provoked any , more than the. Catholics of England to disturb the State. They would controul their passions by reason, and would still see i that the connexion with England was desirable. Allegiance was to be preferred to resistance. They must feel finally and even tually their claims would be granted. They were too just and too strong to be resisted ; and they would be strengthened by- the forbearance and good conduct of the sufferers. He would say that it was not tloe way to advance the claims to run into extremes. Jt was wrong to augment the feelings of discontent. He would admit it was natural for sufferers to express their sentiments, but considering all the circumstances of the case, the magnitude of the injury, the long continuance of oppression, it was wonder ful to reflect upon the very few who had given way to any ex pressions of violent feelings. If the House contemplated the immense number of Catholics, it would be unjust not to take into consideration the great forbearance, the great discretion by which their proceedings in general were marked. But the practical point to consider was, could the country remain as it was? and if it could not, what was to be done? He was satis fied, and he would say with the utmost confidence, that the Catholics of Ireland would be more wisely directed, if, instead b of ee c n on ( t io ie n u e a t i o ly h the o l l n d , in t g up their rl be ead fn e r r e s t ‘ h vo ei u r ld eyes pass the th w e r m on o g: e tt have r ha altoge ther. If they would point out the strides they have made in ob taining a cause--the amelioration of their condition—the re laxation of the violence under which their forefathers groaned, and the gradually increasing liberality of this country towards them ; this would teach them to entertain hopes for the future. He would acknowledge that the whole system pursued towards the Catholics was most iniquitous ; but considering the dreadful nature of religious prejudices—considering that the question in volved so many interests and agitated so many passions, the Catholics ought not to be altogether insensible to the feelings of gratitude for what they load already obtained. Let them consider the progress which their cause had made in public opinion within the last thirty years. Nothing so much softened the asperity which arose out of religious differences as the diffusion of know ledge and the improvement of the public mind. Bigotry and superstition, with their necessary attendant, persecution, were the mere offsprings of ignorance ; they were the passion& of unen lightened brute nature, which decreased in proportion as the in tellect was instructed. The liberation of the Catholics was an ab solute and necessary consequence of diffusing knowledge. What was the condition of the Catholics thirty years ago ? There load e at i he period of Cat o been a gradual, he must confess a slow, p r ogress of amelioration in the condition of the - Ca tholics. The s y st em had not advanced rapidly, but it had ne ver retro g raded—it had always been pro gressive. He w E manc ipation could not be long d e f erre d. Th ere were certa i n l y very many on whaL perfectly this r g u m satisfiednt woulddtt for it is no consolation to a suffering individual to be told that the a make little imiiresshinolic ; next race would be relieved from the injuries and the oppression under which he was labouring. The Catholic Clain - is: were in debted for their progress very much to the discretion with which they had been urged. Whatever differences of opinion might exist upon the general system—upon isolated measures, or upon the manner in which they bad been urged, there was a perfect accordance upon one point (upon this all persons were agreed), that the proposed measure must sooner or later be taken. He was of this opinion—he thought it obvious, and it was equally ob vious, that if the measure must be taken, the sooner it was adopted the better.—(Hear, hear, hear! and loud cheers.)—The earlier the benefit was confer red, the more beneficial would be the effect.—(Hear, hear !)—lndependently of the substantial merits, and the general principles of the case, there were certain circum stances which gave the present discussion most peculiar interest. He alluded to the hopes that had been held out to the Roman Catholics of Ireland by Government, and by Parliament, and to the talents by which their cause had been supported.' Inde pendently of this, their hopes had been excited, when the King of England had visited their country. The Catholics had been taught, that the appearance of his Majesty amongst them was an assurance of the accomplishment of their most ardent hopes--the confirmation of their just rights. The presence of the King Twas the assurance of the pardon of offences. When that most infamous and disgusting Monarch, James 11., received the Duke of.Moomouth, it was clearly understood by that Nobleman that the interview was to lead to a remission of the penalties of the law—(H ear , hear !)--When the King recently received. the Catholics of Ire land, his appearance among them, his professions, the Addresses that were put forward on that occasion were . tantamount to an assurance that the disabilities would be done away with. It was perfectly absurd for a Monarch to .come among a body of his most loving subjects whilst he was disqualifying them from civil privi leges, on the ground that they were not to be trusted. The case admitted of no doubt. It was set at rest by the letter which hie Majesty had desired Lord Sidmonth to write upon the occasion. There might be quibbles raised upon Lord Sidmouth's letter, but under the circumstances which dictated it, it spoke to the heart. So thoroughly had this letter been understood in Ireland thai it excited the expression of feeling, which •in England war thought to transgress those sentiments of affection which a fro