The Sun. — London, England, 1831-04-20 00:00:00

(__ _ f;711 BRITISH INSTITUTION, PALL-MALL. THE GALLERY for the EXHIBITION and SALE of the WORKS of BRITISH ARTISTS Op.rn Daily, from Ten in the Morning till Five in the Evening. Admission I'.—Catalogue la. - WILLIAM BARNARD, Keeper. PARLIAMENT. . rr HE ATLAS of Sund4iieit will give the Debees on the REFORM BILL at greater length than any other Newspaper can accomplish. Orders re ceived by all Newsvenders and Booksellers. . Printed and published at Beaufort-house, Strand. This day was puhlistiel, the EDINBURGH REVIEW, No. CV. CONTENTS:—.. I. Lingard's History of England-11. Causes and Cure of Disturbances and Pauperism—lll. Public" Schools of England; Wtetminster and Eton—lV. Schiller and Goethe's Correspondence—V. Reade's Poems ; Cain the Wanderer, Revolt of the Angels, &c —VI. Muller's His tory and Antiquities of the Doric Rae&—VlL Bulwer's Siamese Twins, and other Poems—Vlll. Taylor's His toric Survey of German Poetry—lX. Epistolm °been serum Virorum ; Character and Authorship of that re markable Satire—X. Beechey's 'Voyage to the Pacific and Behring's Strait—Xl. Parliamentary Reform, and the Ministry. Longman and Co., London; and A. Black, Edinburgh. FROM THE GAZETTE OF LAST NIGHT. Lord Chamberlain's Office, April 15,1831. The Lord Chamberlain has appointed William ,Attree, Esq., Surgeon Extraordinary to his Majesty's establishment at Brighton. • War Office, April 19, 1831. 4th Regiment of Dragoon Guards—Major H. Pratt, from the half-pay, to be Major, vice T. H u tt on , w ho exchanges, receiting the difference, April 19. 13th Regiment of tight Dragoons—Lieut. J. Boalth, from half pay 22d Light Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, vice H. Elton, who exchanges, April 19.. sth .tiegiment of Foot-Lieut. G. thampain to be Captain, by purchase, vice. Bent, who retires; Ensign B. W. Shawe to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Champain ; S. G. Beamish, Gent. to be Ensign , by purchase, vice shawe, April 19. ' 9th loot—Ensign S. H. Metcalfe to be. Lieutenant, by pur chase, vice Hilton, who retires; M. Glasse, Gent, tobe Ensign, by purchase, vice Metcalfe, April 19. , 37th Foot.-Gentleman Cadet J. R. S. Wilson,' from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Ward, who re tires, April 19. 70th Foot—Lieut. G. B. Mathew to be Captain, by purchase, vice Kirk, who retires ; Lieut. F. B. Rocloe, from half-pay 24th Light Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, vice Boalth, whose appoint ment has not taken place, April 18; Ensign J. a Corry to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vic e M a th ew , April 19;' W. 'M. Bigge, Gent. to be Ensign,; by purchase, vice Corry, April 19. Royal Staff Corps. - - To be Majors without purchaie. Captain T. G. Harriott ; Captain H. Piers, April 19. To be Captains, without purchase. Lieut. W. Dillon; Lieut. E. Martindale; Lieut. T. W. Col leton ; Lieut. E. C. Wilford, April 19. MEMORANDUM The names of the Ensign apppointed to the 43d Foot, on the sth instant. are lion. Harry Cavendish Grey. The name of the Ensign appointed to the 55th Foot, on sth instant, is Thomas De Havilland, and not Thomas De Haviland. The Christian names of Cornet Parry, of the 17th Light Dra goons, are Frederick John, and not Frederick James, as before stated. War-Office, April 19. His Majesty has been pleased to approve of the sth Regiment of Foot resuming the motto, " Quo fata vacant," formerly borne on its colours and appointments, in addition to its ancient badge of St. George and the Dragon. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Somerset. F. G. Cooper, Esq. to be Deputy Lieutenant. Ist Somerset Regiment of Militia. R. Bicknell, Gent. to be Ensign. 2d Somerset Regiment of Militia. R. J. Bidsee, Gent. to be Lieutenant. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Essex. The Hon. C. Metre to be Deputy-Lieutenant. East Essex Regular Militia. F.. Griffiths ' Esq. to be Captain, vi ce P reston, res i gne d ; G. W . Rooke, Gent. to be Ensign, vice Os , .}orne,-promoted ; W. Wade, Gent. to be ditto, vice Weeley, promoted. Commission by the Lord Lieutenant of th e County of Nottingham. Southern Regiment of Nottinghamshire Yeomanry Cavalry. S. Surplice, Gent., to be Lieutenant; W. F. Parr, Gent., to be Second Lieutenant, vice W. Marshall, resigned ; T. Chowler, Gent., to be Cornet, vice W. P. Fillingham, promoted. Commissions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Kent. West Kept Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry. Major George Charles Earl of Brecknock to be Lieutenant. Colonel.Cornmandant, vice John Earl of Darnley, deceased ; Ed. Earl of Darnley to be First Major, vice the Earl of Brecknock; John Robert Viscount Sydney to be Second Major. Comn4sions by the Lord Lieutenant of the County of Surrey. Surrey Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry. The Right Hon. Frederick John Lord Monson to be Major; G. Lowson, Gent, to be Adjutant. DECLARATION OF INSOLVENCY. JOHN PAXTON, jun., Ironmonger•lane, Cheapsidr, linen. draper. BANKRUPTCY SUPERSEDED. THOMAS HEEL, Gateshead Low Fell, Durham, draper. • BANKRUPTS. ' RICH ARD SMITH, William street , New Kent-road, licensed victualler, to surrender April:24 at two, May 3, and 31, at eleven, at the Court of Commissioners. Harlstone, Lyon's-Inn. CHRISTOPHER MONK, and THOMAS MONK, Frome- Selwood, .Somersetshire, linen-drapers, May 12, at.five,l3, - it ten,' and 31,.at eleven, at the White Hart Inn, Bath. Perkins and Frarripton, Gray's-Tim-square, London; Miller, Frome. WILLIAM NVRANGILAM, Louth ' Lincolnshire, silver smith, April 27, at seven, 25, and May 31, at eleven, at the Blue Stone Tavern, Louth. Dax and Alger, Bedford-row, London ; Wilson and Coe, Louth. JOHN CRITCHLEY, Ryeford, Gloucestershire, coal-mer chant, May 3, at five, 4, and 3!, at ten, at the George Inn, Gloucester. Colman, Stroud; White, Old.square, Lincoln's. Inn, London. JOHN CRONIN', Old Bailey, stone-merchant, April 26, 29, and May 31, at two, at the Court of Commissioners. Martin, Red Lion-square. THOMAS HENRY CHALK, Barking, Essex, corn-dealer, April 22, at two, 29, and May 31, at one, at the Court of Com missioners. Thomson, George-street, Minories. JOHN COU'ITS, jun., Notting-hill, Kensington, baker, April at one, a), and May 31, at eleven, at the Court of Commis. sioners. Johnson, Quality-court, Chancery-lane.. JAMES ARMSTRONG, Raskelf, Yorkshire, miller, April c.t, at eleven, at the White Swan Inn, York. Butterfield Gray's Inn.squase, London. , JAMES LEA, jun. Worcester, butcher, May 2,3, and 31; at twelve, at the Hop-pole Inn, Worcester. Becke, Devonshire street, Queen-square, London; Hughes, Worc es t er . EDWARD HEN RY FRANCIS, Ormond-house, Chelsea, schoolmaster, April 22, at two, 29, and May 31, at one, at the Court of Commissioners. Wrentmore, Charles street, St. James's_ square. MARY and HENRY CLAYTON, East Retford, Nottingham. shire, drapers, May 10, 11, and 31, at eleven, at the George Inn, Huddersfield, Yorkshire. Jacques and Bettye, Coleman-street, London ; Ilattye and Hesp, Huddersfield. JAMES A LIM RIC; H r, Strand, cheesemonger, April 26, 20, and May 31, at one, at the Court of Commi ss i oners . Bi nns , Essex-street, Strand. JAMES MILLS, Clerkenwell-green, wine.merchant, April 26, May 3, at twelve , and 31, at eleven, at the Court of Commis sioners. Price and Wakeling, St. Johifs.square, Clerkenwell. GEORGE SMITH and ROBERT FOULERTON, Gutter. lane, London, warehousemen, April 29, at nine, M a y 10, a t twelve, and 31, at nine,• at the Court of Commissioners. Gre gory, King's Arms-yard, Coleman-street WILLI A M NO V E LL, Clapham-road, Surrey, carpenter, April 26, at one, M ay 3, and 31, at twelve, at the Court of Corn! nnssioners. Bousfield, Chatham-place, Blackfiriars. JOSEPH DAVIS, Hart-street, Covent-garden, orange-mer. chant, April 22, 29, and May 31, at eleven, at the Court of Com missioners. Matland, Fleet-street. THOMAS PLATT, Brentford, coal-merchant Aril 26, at eleven, May 3, and 31, at twelve, at the Court of C o m m ission ers. Pocock, Bartholomew-close. JOHN BARNETT, Devonshire-place, Old Kent-road, Surrey, navv.agent, April 22, at twelve, 29, at one, and May 31, at twelve at the Court of Com m i ssioners. Thrupp, Oxford street. JEFFREY WOOLSTON, Ki ngst on-upon -Hull t - yma April DS, 27, and M a y 31 , at eleven, at Dee's Royal hotel, ming:tam. Mime and Parry, Temple, London , B ' k It' mingham. • eswie , ir- n W. R DIVIDENDS. emington R. Stephenson, D. R. Remin Toulmin, Lombard-street, London, banker s, May l o o, n, at eleven, at the Court of Commissioners—H Dixon Leadenhall-street, trunk-maker, May lu, a t eleven, at the Court Commissioners-- A. H. Henn, H o lb orn, hatter, May 10, at three, at the Court of Commissioners—E. Chater, jun., Commercial Wharf, Lambeth, coal-merchant, May 10, at one, at the Court of Commissioners-- J. Wildy, Oxford-street, hatter, May 10, k t twelve, at the Court of Commissioners—A. Ham Mick, Long-Acre, coach-maker, May 10, at eleven, at the Court of Commissioners—J. Alewyn, Fen church-street, merchant, May 17, at eleven, at the Court of Com missioners—W. Bamford, Houndsditeh, timber-merchant, May 13, at twelve, at the Court of Connissioners—J. Richardson, Bethnal-green, merchant, May 13, at eleven, at the Court of Com missioners--J. James, Woolwich, innkeeper, May 13, at eleven, sit the Court of Corkmissloners—J. Rastall, Kilburn, - Middlesex, Carpenter, May 13, pit eleven, at the Court of Commissioners—W. Machin, Greenwich, grocer, May 10,' at three, at the Court of Commissioners—D. Seiden and W. Hinde, Liverpool, merchants, May 14, at one, at the Clarendon-rooms, Liverpool ...W Ogden, Bangor, Carnarvonshire, hatter, May 21, at tour, a t th e G oa t Inn, Carnarvon--J. Tyas, Wakefield, Yorkshire, grocer , M ay 13, a t eleven, at the Court Commissioners .H. Atkinson, Doncaster, Yorkshire, druggist, May 17, at One at the Gr een D ragon Inn, Doncaster—C. Ives, Cumberworth, Yorkshire, clothier, May 11, at ten, at the Pack Horse Inn, Hiiddersfield—T, Shiers, Hud- Ce:sfield, Yorkshire, wcolstapler, May 11, a t ten, at the Pac k horse Inn, Hudder s field—E. Robson, Leeds, grocer,' May 16, at elk , en, at the Court house, Leeds —F. W. Paddon, Plymouth, printer, May 12, at eleven, at the King's-Arms Inn, Plymouth— M. Ornie, Manchester, cotton twist dealer, May 12, at nine, at the Palace Inn, Manchester. CERTIFICATES.—May 10. J. Krrell, Liverpool, horse-dealer—E. Robson, Leeds, grocer.— T. Wilson, Manchester, commission agent—W. Stewart, Liver- Pool. merchant—J. and V. Oldfeld, Edgeware-road, coach makers —G. Insole, and R. Biddle, Cardiff, Glamorganshire, brick-makers —F. liretherton, Lancashire, coach7proprietor—F. Nash, Shepton Mallet, Somersetshire, clothier—R. Cross, Man chester, publican—J Mather, Salford, Lancashire, builde r —J . pap r-maker. —verPool, grocer—R. Barnard, Hollingbourn, Kent, PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. W., C., and M. A. Halliday, Stroud, Gloucestershire, cabinet. makers —G. Ilinde and) .F. Moore, PopPin's-wurt, law-stationers —J. Berwick and W. Jackson, Liverpool, cabinet- Fleet-street, makers--J. Wilkinson, J. Straitli, and It. J. T. Perkin, Loden hall-street, drug-brokers —W. B. Parker and H. Johnson, ttor neys—lt. and J. Lane, ~V• tailors—lL W. Overto and G. Faldo, jun., Rotherhithe, sign carvers—H. and F. Joni , and T. Dent, Nottingham, lace-m anufacturers--H. and J. Iternp, ynien—j. Patmore and W. J. Hamilton, 11(011,- Faversham, ho street, St. James's, tailors —C. Middleton and W. Hipper, Nor wich, crape-manufacturers —J. Pattinson, jun. and J. Betts, iNew ark, Nottinghamshire, maltsters—J. Buncombe and G. Stone, Taunton, Somersetshire, attorneys —J. Robinson and G. .PLYns ley, Billy Mill, Northumberlaini, millers —A. S. Johnson id B. Cre si, Great Beil_alley, Coleman -street, boot-rnakers— ',and J. Davey and J. Bidwell, Norwick, sack-manufacturerJ. Yard and J. Bramwell, Durham, attorneys —J. %V. Fowler • H. Palmer, Monmouth gas-vvorks, Monmouth —G. Mellor nd I. Dixon, Manchester, burlders--C. Foster and J. Harrison, iver pool, coal-merchants—J. and M. Martin, Liverpool, buil ers— R. Farquhar, J. Crundwell, and 1). Lawrence, Ashford, ient, gun makers—T. Wright and J. Scholey, Sheffield, Yor hire, . - Owen, H., E and R. Cooper, Sambrook -court, lack tailors—A. ., well-hall-factors. atains I par_ to be as the lain of cannot he is forte_ ill not bsence in the be the wanted aution, Ahern, ectlous himself nv ex les, to have COUr rt must essen. his as d Inca simself, t make already s wide- eech to Preston tropallis said it nmittee public Have .should, ition, to arrived enemy. onspira owed to 4,1 forth political any sue- )AY.) •tver and teed. for the Pro- the Two dada. .i Porte, Princess I CK. rote Ga. act : • p the ad. )ort pub posts are suth they rwolin.— iebitsch's advanced ear guard r cavalry. some loss, ie Narew, 1 Guards, partizan e de Bei6.. ervices to ti nuall y riven the e country e 3Lisi n a ts n 5;000 are trophies. have no , but they rce easily Dpold was :ommuni out three e offer. Account, time. The generally ect on the ONE. the morn. they have .sent, with ring being •ather ope be decided, Ted by the A a check, breign :C. 0 CE. ~ . . ssi AT VI% • . • . ' , =, :t - tift44.;"t:?,:i;.- • ( I o. 2,045 IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. NO USE OF LORDS, Aram 19. CALCRAFTS DIVORCE BILL. The examination eif witnesses on this Rill was resumed, aad the further con.iderition adjourned to Monday next. Lgrd EGAIONT took the oaths and his seat. Earl SPENCER presented a petition from the county of Northampton in favour of Reform, also one from Tow rester to the same ,ffert. The Duke of RICHNIOND presented a petition from Boswell, in Sussex, to the same effect. The Bills on the table were forwardeC a stage. The Earl of WESTMORELAND, iu consequence of a petition having been presented by Earl Spencer from Noeth ampton in favour of Reform, felt himself calterl upon to rescue himself and the generality of that respectable county from having countenanced an tyrannica'l a petition. —(Hear, bear.) He had as yet said not one word upon this measure, and he felt great unwillingness in trou bling their kairdships now, but he considered the objec tions to this measure so great and numerous that be could refrain no longer from addressing the House on the sub ject. He considered the measure not only a revolution but revolutitmary—itoTerset every institution of thecountry, and placed at.the mercy of the poople, without prot-c -tiono thrianded interest,. the eolonial interest, . the com mercial interest, and also that of the King. The possessions of an - Englishman no person could taka away from him unless in tho case of abuse, and to his mind depri ring him of his right to vote was an infringement on the Constituti The Bill would stamp the people of England with degradation, for it imposed on them a mark of helotism. Earl SPENCER apologized for having presented the petition in the absence of the Noble Earl, and deprecated the discussion of the merits of this great measure on the presentation of a petition. The Earl of WESTMORELAND explained. The Earl of WINCHILSEA said he could not refrain, being connected, as he now was, with the county of Northampton, and feeling great respect for the individuals who had signed the petition, from rising to meet the aspersions that had been thrown out against the petitioners by the Nob'e Earl. He deprecated the warmth of language used on both sides, and he re gretted tliat the noble Earl, should choose to call a measure of such importance tyrannical and revolu tionary; and that he had thrown out such impu-_ tations on a body of men whom - he woul4 say, however warm the feelings of the Noble Earl might be for the good of his country, could not he exceeded by the individuals who placed the petition on their Lordships' table. With respect to - the measure itself, when the time came for discussing it before their Lordships, he should be prepared to state what parts he approved of, and those which he considered ought to be rejected. Sir A. GRANT. and others, brought up the Corporation Property Fund Bill, and several private Bilk. THE TIMES NEWSPAPER. The Earl of LIMERICK said—Presuming, my Lords, upon the very kind indulgence which I received at the hands of your Lordships yesterday. when I brought before your Lordships what I conceived to I.e a breach of the privileges of your Lordships' House, I am induced to en treat your Lordships to indulge me now for one or two minutes, and I promise not to detain your Lordships longer. Having already stated to your Lordships, fully , and unreservedly, my opinion upon the subject in ques tion, it would be at once had taste anti bad sense if I were to travel into the meter again ; and I rise now to assure your Lordship* that I have no personal feeling whatever with regard to the transaction. True it is, my Louis, that I considered that it was through me that the dignity of your Lordships' House was attacked,—but it was in consequence of the attack upon that dignity, and not in consequence of what was said of me personally, that I brought the watter under the notice of your Lordships. These, were the grounds upon which I acted, and if I had it to do again, I would do precisely as I haw Lords, I have endeavoured to save your Lordships some - time and trouble bylooking into the precedents which have been followed. upon similar occasions, or to which occa sions have given rise ; and I find that in early days very severe penalties have been inflicted upon persons who have been guilty of such an offenee as that which I conceive has been committed in the present instance. However, my Lords, lam no advocate for violent measures or for severe penalties in any case.—(Hear.) The LORD CHANCELLOR here interrupted the Noble Earl, and said—l am sure, my Lords, that the Noble Earl means nothing but what is quite right, in the course which he is now pursuing; but allow me to s ug ges t to your Lordships that the course is not consistent with the order of your Lordships' proceedings. Your lordships yesterday agreed to an order, namely, " That the printer of The Times newspaper do attend this House to•mor rowat four o'clock." • Now ,that order is peretnptery— (Hear, hear)—and I take it that in the first instance your Lordships must be informed whether that order has been complied with, and whether the person is in attendance. —(Hear, hear.) With this, I apprehend,your Lot dships must commence your proceedings in this matter, unless the Noble Earl intends to move that the order be dis charged, and that I do not understand to be the Noble Earl's intention. The Earl of LlMERlCK—Certainly, my Lords, I have no such intention, any more than I have the intention of pursuing any course which is inconsistent with the order of your Lordships' pro eedings. I will therefore very shortly bring my observations upon the subject to a con clusion. My Lords, I have no personal feeling in the mat ter. I took it up solely for the sake of the House, and with the House I now leave it. Mr. Pdhwin, the Yeowan•Usher, here appeared at the bar, and said—" My Lords, the 'minter of the Times newspaper in attoadaner." The LORD CHANCELLOR—Let him be brought to the bar. Mr. Lawson then appeared at the b a r. • The LORD CHANCELLOR—What is your name? Mr. Lawson—John Joseph Lawson. The LORD CHANCELLOR—Are you the printer of the Times newspaper? Mr. Lawson-1 am, nay Lord. The LORD CHANCELLOR—Look at the paper which w.ll ba handed to you, at the paragraph which will be pointed oct to you.—(Here Mr. Cour tenayshowed Mr Lawson the Times newspaper which contained the para graph complained of.)—Are you the printer of the paper in -which that paragraph is inserted ? Mr. Lawson—l um, rny Lord. The LORI) CHANCELLOR—You may withdraw. Mr. Lawson having withdrawn front the bar, one of the Clerks of the table read the following paragrapb:, Yet mean, cruel, and atrocious as every civilized mind must consider the doctrine, that Treland has no need of poor laws, or some equivalent for them—hateful and abominable as is such a screen for inhumanity —there are men, or . things with human pretensions, nay, with l o ft y pr i v i leges, who do not blush to treat the mere proposal of establishing a fund for the relief of the diseased or helpless Irish with brutal ridicule and almost impious scorn. Will any man credit that an Irish absent Lord could say what he is reEorted to hav e u tt ere d i n the House of Peers last night, when Lord Rosebery presented a petition, praying that a compulsory tax on land mi g ht b e i ntroduced into Ireland, to wards alleviating her poor ? We shall no t name him—because the House of Lords is armed with a thing called a Bar,' and other disagreeable appendages. But there are Members of that House who surprise nobody by declaring their indifference to popular odwm,' especially when they are at such a distailce ftom Ireland as to insure the safety of their persons." Alter the reading of the above paragraph there was a short pause, and then Lord WYNFORD rose and said, " My Lords, I for one beg leave to express my obligation to the No'ble Earl near me, for having brought this matter under the consideration of your Lordship., and"— Here there arose a murmur in the House. We heard the ward " bar," and we suppose that some Noble Lord must have moved " that the bar be cleared," for Mr. Courtenay leaving the Lble, desired the messengers to clear the bar. All the strangers below the bar, not excepting the reporters, were then put out of the House. The Members of the House of Commons, who were standing at the foot of the throne, were allowed to remain. [After a short intet val, in which their Lordships de termined that the paragraph was a false and scandalou libel, Mr. Lawson was again called in. On his being placed at the bar, the Loan CHANcat.r.on informed him, that the House had determined that the paragraph, which had appeared in the paper of which he was the printer, was a false and scandalous libel, and that their Lordships were then ready to hear any thing which he might have to urge in his defence. Mr. Lawson commenced by expressing his regret that here should have appeared in the Times newspapSr, 01 which he was the printer, any paragraph calculated td give offence either to their Lordship's in general, or to the Noble '~ .. _~l _i'_~ +' _'4. , -..\%/ Ni \- - 1 .&•' , I;. ----- 7 - " ,--- --- : - , , , ,- ..h,lis I _ . ‘ t. I t -,- i 4 -. ~......nr..-„.. . 7. is . ..E . .;i L . 7 i ti B /, % i •;• .... '-- - '':: '',-...• PRICE 7D. : e u r t ta a i n g i r y e a n t s Fi fa °t n fi of u r t l e a ' e m we v n a t s , i • de it riv w ed ou fro ld m a o p t pe he a r r so t u h ric it es a . With respet to th e hereditary revenues of the Sovereign, qeat sacrifice had been made; but he thought that if they eere to compare the present expense, with those of the rime of George IL, it would .be .found that a Civil List - ,•eted on the latter would now be in arrear. With respect to the Civil List Auditor, h e must confess that he could not see any difficulty in carrying on the Civil List without -ttch an officer, as the various expenses were distri buted under their respective departments, and were in that .vay checked so as to prevent errors or • misappropriation. As to the Pension. List. he thought that it.bad been ;diced sufficiently high to enable the Crown to act With genero sity, liberality; and justice; and at the same time to pro feet the peop!e from too great a weight. Lord ELLENBOROUGH thought that the 3:Aerieft of the clerks in the lower classes of the department to which he had recently belonged, ought to be augmented, and in several branches their numbers ought to be strengthened.' He had further to observe, that the more he reflected upon the subject, the mere was be convinced that the Neble Lord at the head of h's.Melesty'ss Government would Snd it impossible to_make any further reduction in the salaries of .officers employ, d under the Board of Controul ; and itivould not help doubting the poll if that arrangement which now, for the first time, exhibited naked to , the country the precise amount of the expences of the Civil Government. The present was surely not Abe time fur such experiments. He confessed he could by no means approve of placing under the annual controul and direc tion of Parliament those classes of the public expenditure which had ever been confined to the Civil List, and which, with the provision for the personal expeece of the Monarch, were voted for life. He could not be hr tught to think that any popular assembly could perform well the business of retrenchment. They were'often parsimonious, but they were much more often extravagant ; and in matters purely personal they were seldom if ever just. The Earl of CAERNARVON could nut certainly blame the Ministers for reducing their own salaries, for without adopting such a course, they could not obtain any credit for their professions. Nevertheless, be was persuaded that the reduction of these salaries would be rather mischievous than beneficial to the public. The theory of the Consti tution left the King to choose his servants, but the new arrangements adopted in the present state of society, ex cluded from the service of the Crown any but the more opulent members of the Ariptocracy. The House then resolved itself into a Commit'ee, the several clauses were agreed to, and the Bill was reported without amendment. A NOBLE LORD presented petitions from Hereford, praying protection for corporate rights, and from the same place praying for the abolition of slavery ; a similar pe titi,in from the district of Sutton ; from the city of Here ford, praying for certain alterations in the Beer A:.t. Lord I3EXLEY presented several petitions against sla very, but the names were not called over. Adjourned at Nine o'clock. ,O DON, WEDNESLPAY EVENING, APRIL 20, 183! Eirl in particular. Their Lordships must be aware that .wing to the rapidity with which a journal like the Times must he printed, and the multiplicity of articles which ~ cessarily found their way into it, it was almost ;nines -ible for him, using every diligence in his power, to peruse very separate paragraph which appeared in the paper. The paragraph, of which their Lordships complained, hail found its way inadvertently into the paper, and he had only to repeat his deep regret that it had done so. Mr. Lawson was again ordered to withdraw, hut shortly Irterwards was recalled to the bar, when several questibns sere put to hiM by several of their Lordships, throUgh Lord Chancellor. He was asked, whether he had the -iipreme control of the paper of which he was the printer? He replied that he had not. He was then asked, if he knew who had? He replied thatie considered himself to he holding a confidential situation in.& Times newspaper office, and that he therefore could not answer that question without a breach of trust to his employers, and a loss of eharicter to himself. The LORD CHANCELLOR then infwmed Mr. Law -on that he was not bound to answer any questions unless he pleased. It would he enough for him . to state to their Lordships that be declined answering any question to which he had an objection. At the same time be must inform him that their Lordships would. form their own opinions as td his reasons for not answering such ques tions as might be put to him. Was he (the Lord Chan cellor) to understand that he (Mr. Lawson) declined to answer the last question ? . Mr. Lawson—Certainly. A NOBLE Loan then asked whether a gentleman whose name he mentioned was not the editor of the Times news paper. Mr. Lawsc;n replied that this was only another mode of putting to him the last question; and therefore, with all respect to their Lordships, he must decline giving any an 'weer to it. Mr. Lawson was then asked whether he was the person whose name was entered as the printer at the Stamp office. His reply was in the affirmative. Certain ques tions were then put to him respecting the proprietors of the paper, whose names were entered at. the Stamp office; but his reply was that he did not know who they . were.— He was then ordered to withdraw. Lord WYNFORD then moved, "That John Joseph Lawson, having admived himself to be the printer of a false and scaudalous libel, which had appeared in the Times n• wepaper of the 16th instant, be committed ,to Newgate during the pleasure of the House, and that he also pay a fine of 1001, as a penalty for publishing the afore said libel." The motion was resisted by the Lord Chancellor, the Duke of Wellington, the Marquis of Lansdowne, and Earl Grey. The House Was about to divide on . the motion, when, on the amendment of a Noble Lord, it was carried, that Mr. Lawson should be committed to the custody of the Usher of the Black Rod, and that he do attend their Lordships to-morrow morning at ten of the clock. The determinatiOn of their Lordships was then commu nicated to Mr. Lawson, who was conveyed, in the custody of two messengers of the House of Lords, to Oliver's Coffee-house, where he now remkins.] It is obvious that we cannot vouch for the exact correct ness of all the pwsages within brackets. !fa state on - this subject ; but he might observe, that he tnsilered Ie principle of separati on t o b e one of very t ' anca in different points of view. The late Administration had perceived that circumstance, and had eluded the principle to a certain extent." It had been I,temed expedient by the present qwernment to carry the :niticiple still further, and it had therefore been carried e:tosiderably further by the present Bill as it now stood. One very great advantage of this separation was, that it would remove all - doubts as to the amount which was re 'juired for the personal expenses of the Sovereign and household. By this means that matter would be left efear and open, instead of being left in that state of doubt ion; obscurity - , which afforded an opportunity for such , nisrepresentation, and often occasioned it. It had on many cTeasions been stated, that the expenditure ha I been much larger under that head than the sum allowed by Parlia or,nt. But the effect of this distinction would be, that any snisapprehensioni of this kind would be prevented ; ,a(1 when the amount of pensions to be allowed out of this list of 510,000/. should be reduced to the proposed ~um of '75,0001.,. that could hardly ba considered at all too much. Another great advantage of this extensive sep*tion would be, that a. very considerable portion of mow), which hail been to a . certain extent withdrawn regislaa- and ordinary. review 'O6 Podia me 'would • now e constantly kept under its review, and subject to controul. This would he a consequence of the utmost int oortanc.s, and it was *chiefly on that' - groUnd that the Government had been anxious to make the separation and distribution as clear and extensive as possible. By this means no less a sum than 55q,415/. would now be brought in the ordinary and regular way under the controul of Parlia ment, instekd of the 114.440/ proposed to be so brought by the late Government. There was one other point about which he was desirous to say a word. It might be said, perhaps, that the reduction to be made in the. Pension List of from 155,000/, to '75,000/. ought to he made at once. To be sure, as these pensions were granted only during the lives of the Kings granting them, they might have been so reduced, and the step would have been legal : but then it could hardly be said that such a step would be just or equitable. Although these pensions could in law be con sidered as grants for the'King's life, yet the practice had been to continue them ; and whether they hid been pro perly granted or'not—and certainly they had sometimes been granted with disgusting carelessness and lavishness— it was still expedient that they should not he at once re duced. There certainly would not only be great hard ship, but also something like injustice, in cutting off at once a source of income which had so long been invariably eunsidered as an income for the life of the grantee. The general understanding was, that these pensions were granted not merely for the life of the King who granted en', but for the lives of those to whom they were given ; and it was better that the public should suffer a little for a short time, than that his Majesty should at once be placed in a worse situation than his father and brother, and should be exposed to the imputation of being guilty of injustice. These were the inducements which led his Ma jesty's Government to allow the pensions to he reduced gradually ; and although the saving to the public would tie little at present, jt would eventually be considerable. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that as he under. stood the case, the original intention of the Civil List was to enable the King to pay all the expences of the Civil Government, and the Royal Household. For this pur pose it was customary, till the time of George 11., to grant taxes, out of which the King might defray the ex pellees of the Civil Government, and he actually did so. The Crown had enjoyed great dignity. as long as that was in practice ; hut it nevertheless had beau departed from at the ecmmeneemeut of the reign of George 111. ; since which time there had been still further alterations. From accounts that he had seen of the expendittire in the time of George 11., he thought that they• must then have amounted to more than those which were at present incurred, notwithstanding the vast increase that bad taken place of late years—notwithstanding the increase of sala ries arising from the abolition of fees—notwithstanding .Izeisucre,be of - the salaries of the Judges, in considera tion of the greater abilities .ntl talents that they possessed, and the depi ivation of offices of which they had formerly held the patronage—and notwithstanding the great in to crease there was also the here ditar y revenue of the Crown, a t O l l 71 1 : e whomal allowanc e a li ne ' e l of h P e ,.. r p l r i t a ' - v cr i d e e a l e f t , :f r. the n ß ut oy i a n l F a a d n d i i i t ly io ...... n amounted to 850,0001. a year, and observed, ) v v,,h h ti slaei i te c rei l v i them. As, however, he had already i n 1815 : bl l was: e e alone a b no s e goi l esn i d e ic much ne e iti l ao i ry i the ient 9 . I c : i a t i i nh g ge ' s e s asinc r ease ic a l ; et : uoet taken . k t ,oe h fn e i triieplaceLordships ch; a charge r gnet : i s c f e e , rr e e e d rta t i o n t e h x e pen c e o es nso l i t i a d v a i t n e g d Fund, whit , others .tt ere voted on estimate by ° a n t t t l i l l a e t tran sferred Parliament. But what were thotie expellees ? They were uncertain expellees ; and the object of bringing them under an annual vote was to avoid the incurring of any debt by which the Civil List itself would be brought under Civil List isbt ben n ok the discussion of Parliament. The. late Government had made a still further departure, and they did it on this plin doe :—Whenever a portion of the salaries was paid out o f t he Consolidated Fund and a portion out of the Civil List, they proposed to transfer the whole to the Consoli dated Fund. This was in particular proposed with re specttth that a all i l there the great was groundofficei s forof State complaint, were to the Judges, the Lord, chancellor, and th e S pea k er o f 'he House of Commons. . In the pl an now propose d , t 'l vi o 7 h e e leivi t e l tr e ' p w e l i e i s d h u t e hnol t nu f d o gh r their salaries on an annual vote of supply; and he therefore felt sure that, on consideration, the Noble Earl would take steps to place those salaries on the Consolidated Fund at least.. At the time of the revo lution, there had been long discussions on the hereditary ,revenues of the Crdwn ; but no one dreamt of separatinc , the Crown from the Civil Government. The present proposal was one of modern invention ; and he did not think that the MiniSters of the Crown . ought to be placed 1 in a situation by which,' at, one vote of a Committee of :::; s upp l y , they might be deprived of a porti on o f their sale. , y : ___(ft e ar, hear.), , n With respect t o the Board of orks, he objected to that bein g p laced i n the same . situation, for as it broug ht the Ro y al residenc( s alo ng w i t h it, he thought that it was not desirable to subinit the r e pai rs amid arrange ilwnts of them (after a fixed 'sum had been vo t e d f or t h em ) to the an nual scrutiny of the P ar li ament. With respect for though th ere m i g ht be seme to w hat the Noble Earl had c lid in defence o f th e pension list, be entirely agreed with him; on that list un k nown to hi m, he would ve nture that, in most i ns t ances , l ie could state the reason for the granting of the pension to have been on account or services done to the Crown of this country. Te,os - of his own relations were on that list : one had been placed en it after the battle of Salamanca, and the other i rli-Ige hailtlid bneoetokpnloeans•,edtitlol granteiglit ye a rs ht,se graciousp aaff e t n ee ii tst :i la a s ' 'it ; f s :b f v u o tVi t u i ai r l t i tt e t tt' i I , w h : t ea t o . u K b l a d d say be e n tlia ,i t ho l w . ie n fel i t )y sl e proud Sovereig n , c o n f: i , g t I n i e , that though Parliament might take away, he would never resirn.—(Hear, Lear, hear.) After all, the difference be tween the amount of this Civil List and that which wis proposed lay the late Government was very small ; nor did choice Aod ito l r i , a had o been particular, office flite _t he think that in the o ffi ces that were to be , abolished the Lonfu i slo w n. oul judicious.te thought that on the abolish ment respeot to the Civil List unlesswould the e t p it: t ,r o son . s who of that they were ruined. Suchlildwasig of salaries, he believed that it was generally admitted that Mr. Perceval, and Mr. Canning 4vvbiethforuenspdet,thatot the Civil l ct L io is n t Le himself had had the offi ce of pro p os i ng it p h; : e • f o an p te: l B4 i e n ihn g aud a 'ittlhal office. . C an A ni t n it g i 'S yet, fni l i li h h o is been i f 'a a d ctnotorious, Mrtheire'i. l a r g e 3e llatter r fort unes provision L P o c riaftdost case ruined by be ing in ships found on the table a • ble a minute from the Treasury, • directing the reduction . ' of the salaries of all the officers of the Government. Anybody who knew anything of these matters must be aware that th e fi rs t year ' s sa l ary o f an State Officer of was absorbed i n hi s re - e l ec ti on , patent, and other incidental expences . Viscount GoD ERII . adnaitte4 that considerable ex pense was attached to Ole high offices of State, the details of which, though ' they c ou ld nut b e enumerate d , were well known to those who were connected with those offices. Yet he could - not help' thinking that it be after cutting down the - salaries of the lower offices, if they did not act in the same 'Wu towards the higher stations. If he w ere a b le to admit that there was anything in this arrangement cal join the ~,o ve colated to d egra d e t h e C rown, h e wou ld -' 4 ! I Duke in raising his voice : lie could not, however, see that it. it Was a any such e ff ec t was 'lik e l y to ar i se from mistake to supp ose , th at i n th e re i g n oh George 111 . and George IV. the great offices of the . State w ere altogether connected with the Cr own : it w as true that part of th • en. salaries was received from the Civil List, CIVIL LIST. When steamers were again admitted into the House, Bail GREY was proceeding with a statement of the alterations made in the Civil List as it at present stood It was proposed to transfer a considerable portion of those sums which'had been formerly voted under the general head of the Civil List to the Consolidated Fund. For England, it was proposed so to transfer the salaries paid to • the Lord Chancellor, the Chief and Puisne Judges, Speaker of the House of Commons, &c. &c. For Ire land, it was proposed to charge on the Consolidated Fund instead of the Civil List generally, the salaries of the Lord Lieutenant, the Lord Chancellor, the Judges, &c. &e. ; and for Scotland, it was propoSed to transfer the salaries of his Majesty's Commissioner of the General Assembly for .the Church of Scotland, the hared eery Usher of the 'White Rod, &c. &c. It was also proposed to charge on the Consolidated Fund the' Diplomatic Sala ries and Pensions, heretofore paid out of the Civil List; and sl.o such part of the Civil List Pensions, hitherto paid nut of the Civil List or Hereditary Revenue, as were not provided for in the Civil List - now under the consideration of Parliament. It was also proposed to charge on the Consolidated Fund that part of the Speaker's salary - now derived from fees, and to apply these fees in aid of the Fee Fund of the House of Commons. - - There were other articles hitherto paid out of the Civil List in England, which it was proposed in future to vote an nually as part of the supplies—such - as the salaries or allowances of the Lord President of the Council, of the Lord Privy Seal, the First Commissioner of the Treasury, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, &c. &c, These sums under the various items mentioned amounted together to sum of about 114,000/. Then they bad to consider the stun still charged under the general Civil List more imtne diately under the controul of the King. This had been reduced from about 1,084,000/. to 970,0001., being a reduction of upwards of 100,0001. And it would be agreed that there was no King that had ever reigned in England who was better entitled to have the sum men _ tioned included in the Civil List than his present Majesty_ But it was proposed to carry the separation will farther, so as to diStinguish those sums allowed to his Majesty for the support of the personal dignity of his station f rom the sums he applied to the exp nses of the Governmen.. This was the object of transferring to the Consolidated Fund certain salaries and pensions before-mentioned, such as the diplomatic salaries, the allowances to the Lord Chamberlain, the .Master of . the Horse, &c. It wa s proposed to make a considerable. reduction in the Pen sion Lists of England, Scotland, anti Ireland, hut it ...vas proposed to do . this gradually, so that the immediate saving to the public would not be great, although .the eventual saving would be' considerable. After all these transfers from' the Civil List, it would now, in the prm•nt plan he reduced to a sum of about 510,0001. instead of 1,630,000/. as it formerly stood, or 970,000/. as had been proposed by the late Government. It n,,w remained to state what were the articles in the Civil List to be voted now. In the first class of these were the sums to be al low, d for the King's Privy Purse, and the sum to h e al lowed for her Majesty's Household. The first of these items was 60,000/., and this their Lordships would hardly think too much when they considered that it was no more than what had been allowed in 1779, and no King could hive been more deserving than his present Majesty. • The sum fixed for the Queen's Household was 50,0001., which w,s certainly not too much for the purpose ; perhaps he might say that it should rather be more, considering that 50,0001. was the sum allowed for the late Queen Char loite, which was afterwards increased to 58,000/. This was more particularly the case when it was considered how excellent was the character of, her present Majesty. He deeply regretted that her Majesty's name should 'ever, in any way, have been introduced into political discussions at the pm esent time, and more particularly that some allusions and insinuatioos had been made, which were totally and ab sOlutely without foundation, and from which in every viet-v she ought to have been exempted. There was one ar ticle which had not been provided for in regard to her Ma jesty. It so happened that, from particular circum stances, no outfit had been allowed her, although it Wes well known that a sum under that head had been allowed to the late Queen Charlotte. He regretted that a Pup' had not been allowed tinder that head, although the present Ministry had been placed -in such a situation that they could not well propose it. The next class was the sala ries of the Officers of State, reduced from 130,000/. to 119 0001. Another class relatel to the salaries of time Lord Chamberlain, the Master of the Horse; and, taking these and °Our two classes together, a considerable saving would be made in the five classes on the whsle. There was another circumstance connected with this subject, to which he was anxious to call the attention of their Lord ships. Ile was concerned to find that it had teen stated, and generally understood abroad, ,'tat 20,0001. was to he added t o the Civil List. This was a very grea t mistake , which, probably, had arisen in this way. It had been propoi e d t h at w h en t h e expe ll ees o f t h e Ci v il Li s t should exceed th e sum vo t e d by P ar li amen t to the amount Of 10,000/., th at c i rcumstance s h ou ld b e i n ti mat ed to Parliam en t. B ut ow i ng to certa i n c i rcums t a nces, and for some part i cu l ar reasons, i t bad been deemed expe dient t o ra i se. t h at sum to 2 0,000 / . Of co urse this ‘eas n o addition to the Civil List, but only an addi tion t o th e amount of the excess which might be ,:xpended beyond the amount granted by Parliament be fore it should be imperative to intimate the excess to the Legislature. That was the nature of the transac tion. lie was not aware that he had an)thing furthei HOUSE OF COMMONS, Aril, l9. In consequence of a ballot on the Coleraine election, the gallery was not opened this afternoon until a few mi nutes before Four o'clock. IVe understood, however, that no ballot took place. Tie rush of strangers to obtain admission was as great, if not greater thin on any firmer occasion, and the gal lery, in a few moments, was crowded to excess. The backs of all the seats in the body of the House were la belled with the names of Members. Lord ALTHORP presented a petition from the county of Northampton in favour of the plan of Reform. Bfr. CARTWRIGHT said that, the petition did net contain the sentiments of the majority of the freeholders of Northamptonshire. After a few observations from Mr. V. SHITWand Sir G. ROXINSON, the petition was brought up and ordered to be printed. Lord ALTllollP,..thcn presented a petition balm the county of Perth in favour of Reform ; and a similar one front Towcester, in the county of Northampton. Mr. DUNCOMBE presented a petition from the Corpo ration of Leeds against the proposed plan of Reform ; and similar ones from Doncaster, Bradford, and B 'rnsley. Lord MORPETH was requested to state that the peti tions from Doncaster and Bari.sley did not speak the senti ments of the majority of the inhabitants of these towns; neither were they agreed to at a public meeting. Mr. DUNCOMBE said the petitions were most re spectably signed ; and the reason of a public meeting not having been called was in consequence of the opponents of the measure being convinced that they should be defeated not by argument hut by clamour. Mr. SYKES said the petitions did not contain the names of one-twentieth of the inhabitants of the towns from which they carne. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from the county of Stafford in favour of the Reform Bill. The petition was agreed to at the most numerous meeting of freeholders ever assembled in that county, and the feel ing in favour of the Bill was unanimous. The petition was signed by eleven Peers, and nearly 4,000 freeholders. After a few words from Mr. C.. PELHAM, Sir CHAS. MOHOAN, and Mr. CastersELL, the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. LITTLETON presented a petition from the Chief Constables and Clergymen of a district in the county of Stafford, against the new beer shops; also a petition from another district in the same county, for the extinc tion of negro slavery. REFORM MEASURE. Lord JOHN lUJSSELL moved that the Order of the Day for the adjourned debate on Parliamentary Reform be read. Mr. L. BULWER said, if he understood the ar gument of the Hon. Member fur Newark, it amounted to a denial of the necessity' of Reform its Coto. If this were the case he decidedly differed from that Hon. Member. He considered the question of Reform to have been decided ages ago, by the march of civilization and the consequent progress of human. affairs. When his Ma. jesty's Ministers came 'into office, they had to bring forward a measure which wuuld pacify the angry feel ings of a discontented people. Ile wished, however, .that some moderate scheme had been introduced, but that, he was afraid, would not answer the immediate purpo.e, while it satisfied the House, of pacifying the country. He called upon that House to remember that they lived in times when the middle classes were increased. Times in which, if the great spirit of faction availed I nothing, the power of public opinion was invincible, and in which, when the, prerogative of sovereignty -was put against the people, not even the. sword of military authority thrown into the scale had been found sufficient to turn the balance.—(Hear.) It was : 01 - these reasons, first, that some measure of Reform was re quisite in our representation ; n-xt, that when there were civil convulsions in almost every country, it was expedient . and necessary to unite those classes having property with th e mil& classes, and that this, upon the whole, vv.e.s the best that could he introduced, and at once aetieiactory and safe. Tlie Ministerial nieisure met with his approbation. Mr. - CAMPBELL wTs not disposed to find fault with the train of address that the Honourable Memher who last spoke bad adopted, further than to hope that the present measure might pass, if it were for no other purpose than to prevent the Honourab'e Gentleman or any other. Member of that House talk ing of the Notep Lord who had .sent him there— lartguago which had become almost as common in that House as the expressions of his constituents, and which would actually have horror-struck any- Honourable Member in that House in ancient times. It was to be . toped the time would speedily arrive when such expressions could no longer be heard of. His 'Mr, C.'s) principal object was to address a few observations to the motion that bad been, made by the Hon. and Gallant Officer oto the . other side of the House. - That motion was that the Members returned for England remairt, they being 513. For suet' a resolution, he (Mr. C.) was totally ut a loss to dis cover any principle. What was. there 'magical or so sacred in the number 13 ? Lord coke had... said there was something simmlar in the numberi there were twelve tribes of Egypt—twelve signs of the zodiac,-twelve Disciples—twelve Apstles--twelve months in the year, and twelve Judges of England--4Laughtet) -but what there was in 513 he had y et to find out. Again, with r es p ec t t o t h e num b er 45 for Scotland, why that number was to be preserved inviolate he had no means of knowing. On the contrary, in going back to the original resolutions between the Commissioners of England 3 tat the Commissioners of Scotland be found it was clearly nderstood by the Commissioners of Scotland, and he „aj ave a by the Commissioners for England, thee the umber might and should be varied. T::e Original imposition was en the part of the Commissioiseri fir 'TATland that Scotland should send 38 representatives, but at number was afterwards varied to 45. The Scotch cen airily did not insist on having more, but they looked farwa d to the British Parliament for leave to have the num. her increased. Could it be imagined that whatever the - hanges might take place with respect to the wealth an d lacrosse populafon of Scotland that the number of 45 should remain unveiled for ever? Should it' happ en that at any time there should be a large population,' and idthtehna that i a itn Eng , s i,u glt e , a i t n p er a a , re t to o ii f n , ir t3iotain of wealth in it Scotlandbea .nd should send 513 Members, and Scotland only . 15 ? There was abniality on the face of the piopifsi- - ion. • • [low happened it that England returned 513 alert/11).es, whilst Scotland and Ireland retorted so ,co could many h es? It arose from an absolute abuse of toe prerogative of the Crown. It arose not from Le representatives of large counties and popelons places, but from an indisputable abuse of the Crown in individuals brink vested with the power of rending Mem ases to that House. This was directly repugnant to the I.'onstitution of .England, that Constitution required that the - epressentatives of the people in Parliament should `se returned by the people, and in no other way. l'he principle of returning the Members to Parliament east laid down so long ago as the time of Edward the Pirst--he laid it down in the summonses which lie 'sued, and be (Mr. C.) trust rd that . the time was at hand .when that principle would be recognized ;:g .in, end acted upon in its hugest acceetetion. Although he did net con sider it a matter of paramouet importance, whether the illatit General's Motion was or was not carried, and be lieved that even if it were ; the Bill would nevertheless pass, andibe a great boon; yet he would give the amend nent his decided negative, because he believed it would ereatly . hamper the Noble Lord's ineeotne. tle. FAME ceneldered the Noble Lord's Bill as calcu ,ated to , athstititte v:sionary schemes for the system which had conferred grandeur and happiness on England, and professed himself ignorant how any , man who was attached -le the •Coestitutien could give it his support.' Three years oeu the people of England appeared to be satisfied with their representatioe, and within these three years nothing ead occurred in England to induce them to alter their opi ,iien. But within this period Franca had been revolu t-ionised—France had expelled an imbecile Monarch, and now some people were anxious to imitate the example of !Trance, not in the same case, but in the opposite one.— ['he French entbatted in a revolution fir the purpose of preserving the •Constitution. Should we do so, it would for the purpose of destroying ours. They were told (ouch of the necessity of Reform—but little of its benefits. The physical necesdi y for it he looked upon as a good argu asent ; and of its benefits, as he had said, they heard little. The people lo shed fir retrenchment and reduction, but the man who said these would result from Reform, or that Reform would 01,6. rte individual d stress, deluded the people. For so long 11 , 3 we had colonies, so long should we maintain an army. So long as we hail commerce, we s' ould keep up a navy. So long as there was a Monarch,- we ahould have a Civil List. So long as we had a church, we should have tithes; and so long as we regarded national honour, so long should we pay the annual dividends.— The million wished for a reduction of taxes—a faction ftr the destruction of Church and State. It was with certain of tie Reformers as with the Hon. Alembat for Waterford, when he spoke of the repeal of the Union, which he described as a measure simply for the good of Ireland, while he really contemplated a separation between the two countries.- So the , c RetUrmers, while they spoke beet te then. civil tzar, . came of good to the people, really desired the overthrow a Church and Monarchy. A great deal said in that House and without its walls about cheap Goveinment ; but it was a miserable delusion. Chants I. d eman d e d 2 , 0 )( 0 1 , t o he 00K/. Kin, was h its, brought people; t,, then be sea fo ft l followed d Cromwell, the. Prince of .Reihrtners, the sagest of Usurpers, and he extorted ttfo millions from the people. So much for Reform and cheap Government. The Bill of the Noble Paymaster would not, in his mind, give a fair represeera tine to the people of England. The working clases were stigmatized as unworthy of the right of suffrage, and the moneyed interests were passed by; whereas in Parliament, as at present constituted, all classes of the empire were represented. The Noble. Lord's voters would consist exclusively of landholders and houselielders--4t wag easy to foresee what regard a Parliament returned by those bodies would have to the national fd:h. lla also objected most strenuously to the powers en trusted to a Commission of ails Privy Council. Ile heel 'red that it was not possible for the Legislative branch of the Government thus to delegate its- author ity. He stated this, not simply on his own authority, but elso upon that of Mr. Locke, who, in his Essay en Civil Go vernrneut, observes, " The Legislature cannot transfer the power of making laws to any other bands. For it being but a delegative power from the people, they who have it cannot pass it to others. The people alone can appoint the thrtn of the Commonwealth, which is by constituting the legislative, and appointing in whose hands that shall be. And when the peopl e h ave sa id we shall subMit to rulers, and be gaveined by laws made by such men, ant he such forno nobody else can say other .men shall make laws for them. The 'power of the Legislative being de rived from the people by a positive Voltintsey grant std institution, can be no other than whet that positivegrant conveyed, which being only to make laws, and not to make, Legislators, the 'Legislative can have no power to transfer the making of laws and place it in'other hands." The legislatiVe - branCh of the Constitution had no authority to transfer their power to other hands ;' neither they nor the people of England could be hound by any such ttarisfers. He also opposed the Bill upon the ground that it Was in violation of the Acts of Union with Scotland and Ireland, and obseived, that there had been many propositions fee a repeal of the Union between England and these countries, but never once for an increase of tae repreaenta tion. The Noble Paymaster had last night ; read part of a speech of Mr. Pitt's, which made in ids favour; but if he had gone one sentence farther than he did, he would hive found that it made against hint " For my own part, Sir, I will fairly confess, that upon this pail of the subject it does appear to me extremely difficult to find any precise; ground upon which to form a correct calculation, or to entertain a positive preference fur any one specific number of Members rather titan a:lett - me ; but I am the less anxious about it, because I do not con sider the consequences as very important. In my view of ' representation, founded upon the experience of our Con stitution, I think we are entitled to say, that if a nation become united with us in interests and affection, it is a matter of small .linptirtance whethei the number of re presentatives- from one part of the United Empire be greater or less. If there are enough to make known the local wants, to state the interests, and convey the senti ments of the part of the empire they represent, it will produce that degree of general seculity, which will be wanting in any vain attempt to obtain that degree of theoretical perfection, about which in modern times we havo ,heard so much. Considering it in this point of view (if the interests of the two countries are identified, and the number of representatives are ade qtfate to the purposes I have mentioned), I really think the precise number is not a matter of great importauce. At the same titre, when it is necessary that the number should he fixed, it is necessary to lame recourse to some principle to guide our determination ; and I em not aware of any one that can more properly be adopted, than that which was laid down in the discussions upon that part of the subject. in the Parliament of Ireland ; I mean a re ference to the supposed population of the two countries, end to the proposed rate of contribution." But lie asked what was their principle was merely convenience. It was open to any Irish or Scotch Member to bring the question of the breach of Union before Parliament ; for coming under the guise the Bill did, it was an insult to the three United Kingdoms. The Noble Viscount said 'he did not envy that man's heart who could oppose—(The Noble Lord said something in explanation across the table,:ivhich was not atelible in the gallery.)—Well, although the NON Lord slid not say it, lie would nevertheless say, he did not envy that mat's heart which had conceived the Bill,—for it was founded oft corruption and trelfic, and was directed to the basest passions.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. WILBRAHAM rose to give a decided negative to the Gallant General's motion. He was not alarmed at the anticipated introduction of either Irish Catholics or Scoteet Presbyterians ; and he approved of the diminution in the Members, of the Hotise, as he considered business could be better dune by a smaller number. In expressing these (vim 'sans' he was acting consistently with his professions , through life. He had alwilyi been a Reformer. When he first entered the House, he was in hopes that it would be induced to turn its eyes to reform 'its own abuses, and ... r: effect a safe and gradual, and moderate Reform, by th tt , franchising tyre rotten horoughs, and transfers jug ; to populous towns; but when he had been I.ongetirni,_ 'llouse,sand came nearer to the- scene o f e a l etio a n n , d Cotninittees—observing e how cage , .s . a.a t l joi, k " „, as env - sa rn over -corruption, acrd howl difficulties, nud ,iise taede of operation in the House w __ ibra t i h , n e eve n hard in legal and technic d linquency of borottgit , , f get' to transfer e d_the flout. re u, of East ilet.er Y lous town—he deTaited „f as franchise ta " (i • P , a u t and eoini.rehet sive se .erne any thing e xcept a great in eases of the e.tablo , he e 1.: - . ', -;:t1'4;t:"-'," • ' r , '" , .1 --(142^11 T'-"S (.." ,- ,r..1 ..!, ,7i : ~.,4+ . .7 : ; 2 N.,•*" . 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