The Sun. — London, England, 1861-07-27 00:00:00

though not from the reason stated by his noble and learned friend on the woolsack. The bill would now be restored to its original state ; but he could not help calling their lord ships' attention to the difficulties that would arise from the number and variety of duties that would be thrown upon the assignees. It certainly seemed to him that it would be better to leave the powe r of the official assignees as it now was. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it would be better to follow the almost universal voice of the trading commu nity. The proper function of the official assignee, it seemed to him, would be to act as auditor over the trade assignee. Referring to a point which had been raised in the previous discussion, the noble and learned lord contended that the 75th and 214th suctions took away every appeal but that which was given by the bill. Lord CRANWORTH—I am at issue with my noble friend. I say they do not. The house then concurred in the Commons' amendment. On the other amendments, Lord CHELMSFORD observed that their lordships had under the 118th clause given power to the court to settle the bankrupt's allowance; but the Commons had altered it back, so that now the creditors at the first meeting were to determine the question. It certainly seemed rather hard upon the bankrupt that his creditors should have to decide the matter at the moment when they would probably be most irritated against him. Earl GRANVILLE reminded the noble and learned lord hat a bankrupt's estate was, after all, the property of his creditors. The LORD CHANCELLOR added that creditors had uniformly been found to be more than liberal. Lord KINGSDOWN said there was one question to which ho wished particularly to draw attention. One object of the bill was to do away with the distinction which had hitherto existed as to persons who were traders, and those who were not. In abolishing the distinction, there had been a qualification suggested, which he thought very useful, namely, immediately upon a declaration of bank ruptcy the whole of the property to which the bankrupt was entitled was subjected to immediate sale, and the object of the amendment was to prevent, in the case of a'person having the reversion of an estate, the sale of that reversion, the value of which would only be 21 years' purchase, with out the consent of the judge. The LORD CHANCELLOR concurred that some limi tation should be put upon the sale of a reversion under the circumstances stated. The Earl of DERBY doubted whether it would be com petent for their lordships to amend a clause which they had sent down,. and to which the Commons had assented. Lord WENSLEYDALE wished to insist on. the Lords' amendment, with regard to the shorthand writers' clause• The LORD CHANCELLOR supported the clause as it stood in the bill. He said that shorthand writers were em ployed at their lordships' bar, and ,without their assistance cross-examination was rendered difficult, and almost im possible. The motion was then put that their lordships should in sist upon their miscellaneous amendments, and negatived— and the motion that their lordships should agree with the Commons' amendments was put and carried. Upon the motion of the Earl of DERBY a committee was ordered to confer with the Commons, stating their lord ships' reasons for disagreeing with certain of the Commons' amendments and agreeing with others. TURNPIKE ACTS CONTINUANCE BILL.—ORD NANCE SURVEY CONTINUANCE BILL. These bills were read a second time. The Dealers in Old Metals Bill passed through cora committee. The Parochial and Burgh Schools (Scotland) Bill passed through committee. The County Voters (Scotland) Bill, with amendments, passed through committee, The report of amendments to the Volunteers Exemption Bill was recei red. Tha Probate and Letters of Administration Act (Ire land) Amendment Bill, witkameridments, passed through committee. The Annoyance Jurors (Westminster) Bill, with amend ments, was read a third time and passed. The Voters (Ireland) Bill and University Elections Bill were read a third time and passed. The Copyright of Designs Bill passed through com mittee. The following bills were read a third time and passed : Dublin Revising Barristers Bill; Lunatic Asylum (Ire land) Act Continuance Bill ; County Cess (Ireland) Act Continuance Bill; Tramways (Scotland) Bill; and the Local Government Act Amendment Bill. The Industrial Schools (Scotland) Bill passed through committee. The Industrial Schools Bill passed through eommittee, Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY. The SPEAKER took the chair at twenty minutes peal twelve o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the following bills were con sidered and agreed to :—Llanelly Railway and Dock (New Lines, &c.) ; Monmouthshire Railway and Canal (New Lines, &c.) ; Saint George's Harbour; Southampton and Netley Railway ; Stourbridge Railway (Extension to Smethwick, &c.) ; and Swansea Harbour Trust. The M'Mahon's Estates Bill and the Rumney Railway Bill were read a third time and passed. THE NEW CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND. On the motion of Mr. BRAND, a writ was ordered to issue for the election of a burgess to sorve in Parliament for the borough of Tamworth, vacant by the acceptance of the office of Chief Secretary for Ireland' by Sir ROBERT PEEL. SUPPLY. The house went into committee of supply. On the vote of £669,956 for the completion of the esti mate for the packet service, there was some discussion relative to the amount in the vote for the Galway subsidy, &c. Mr. PEEL stated that as this subsidy was withdrawn, the amount on the votes for it would be struck out. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of £1,000,000 for the expenses incurred in the Chinese war, Mr. PEEL stated that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated that it was his intention to ask for the vote, so that hon. members were aware that it would be applied for. Out of the grant of last year there was a balance of £250,000, and there was a balance of £lBO,OOO due to the Indian Go- vernment. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY expressed a hope that the pre sent sum would be the last the house would be called on to vote with respect'to China. He drew attention to the fact that no less than £lBO,OOO was due to the Indian Govern ment for . the conveyance of troops from India to China. He strongly condemned the principle that prevailed with reference to the continuance of the outstanding debt with respect to th e I n di an G overnmen t, w hi c h was m ost fatal to the finances of this country. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that there was some misunderstanding in reference to this subject,i theand he contended that the £1,000,000 would cover all expenses in regard to China. With respect to the Indian Government this ' country stood very well. charge of £BOO,OOO in reference to though there was a Gl ndia, there was in reality I no such amount due from this vernment. Under the t c i rcu mstances this could no t at present but be a satisfactory acco unt between this Governme n t and the Indian Govern ment, and in fact he believed that the balance was in favour of this country. He would b e much disappoint vote w p o i nted if the again d house should be called o n to mak e a larg e in respect to the war in China which hasbeen jut concluded. C o l o nel SYKES said that so lon g as this u • ea• country per mitted the money in China to be collected by our cow __ men and handed over to the Tartars, so long would anarch y and bloodshed continue, and he strongly deprecated any interference in the affairs of China. Mr. GREGSON inquired what amount of the money re ceived was to be paid to the claims of the British merchants. The claims for Government was £ 6,000,000, and that of the merchants £2,000,000. Ile trusted the latter would not be kept out of their money for years. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that as regarded the present vote it gave Government no addi tional power to pay their claims. Some papers on the sub ject had been received at the Foreign-office, but from the long sitting of the house he had no time to pay any atten tion to them. However, he hoped that he and his noble friend the Foreign Secretary would be able to give some consideration to them, and be able to state the course they purposed to pursue in a few days. The vote was then agreed to. On the . vote of £60,692 for the Westminster-bridge, a long discussion took place, Mr. Cowper remarking that he could not complete the bridge by contract, and that he must go on as he had done by day work. Mr. VANCE urged the importance of a new bridge for Dublin, in the place of Carlisle-bridge, which was now quite inadequate. The vote was agreed to. On the vote of £250,000 for iron-case tl ships, arising on of the exertions which had been made in the same direction by other nations. The Government had now seven of these shipsunder construction in the dockyards and by private con tract,in addition to which five had been cc anmeneed, making a total of 12 under construction. It was proposed to com mence by contract six other ships du; ting the autumn, leaving to th e Government the discretio st to proceed with rapidity with a smaller number; or with sn-aller progress, with the 340 whole number. Th e t ota l , expen dit ure would be 12,,810, including the sum of ,' , .:1?,50,. , 000 now asked for, leaving 810 .to be provided fo r th e subs ecußn:t years a sum of £2,090, Mr. HENLEY said that, as no noth of this vote had been g i v en, he hoped that i t would be p ostponed until the evening sitting, Lord H. VANE thought that thely repose.' of the noble lord would appease rather than alarm a commercial corn munity. Sir S. M. PETO suggested that inst aad of building new ships Lord Palmerston should go to France during the recess in order to agree with the En Iperor of the French what should be the relative forces o I the two countries. lie denied that the Emperor of the Fri moil had done anythi ng that could be considered hostile to i this country. Sir J. altAllAlll hoped the p potion would be poet- THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 21, lB6l. nution of the slave trade on the Mozambique coast, and even that it was particularly on that part of the coast that the trade was carried on. He thought a consul ought to be appointed at Mozambique. Mr. DODSON thought that before appointing a consul in a permanent station on the coast, we ought to wait for the result of the expedition of Dr. Livingstone. Mr. GREGORY expressed his satisfaction at the course which the Emperor of the French had taken in putting an end to slavery in the island of Reunion, and hoped that he would be induced to enter into some arrangement with the Government of this country, and assist in putting down slavery. From the present state of conflict between the Northern and Southern States of America, he believed that good would result to the cause of freedom. At the present moment he thought that both the Northern and Southern States ought to be in complete accord with the Government of this country, in its desire to suppress this atrocious and detestable traffic. (Hear, hear.) Mr. FORSTER was favourable to the appointment of a consul at Mozambique, and as considerable benefit had re sulted from having a similar officer on the west coast of Africa, he was induced to believe that much good would arise from such a step as that which had been suggested by the hon. member who had brought forward this subject. So far as America was concerned, it should be borne in mind that the Government of Mr. Buchanan and some of his pre decessors had been greatly influenced by Southern influence; and since that influence had ceased to be felt there appeared to be increased activity on the part of the American cruisers in the performance of their duties. He looked with con siderable apprehension upon the proposal which had been made to encourage Coolie immigration into Cuba, as he feared that those labourers would be exposed to great op pression and acts of cruelty for which it would be difficult to obtain redress. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HOPE said that, in his opinion, the only mode of putting an end to the slave trade was by making it more profitable to employ free labour. With this view he recom mended that immigration into our own colonies should be extensively encouraged, and in order to give assistance to this plan he suggested the imposition of a differential duty, the proceeds of which should be applied as an emigration fund for the benefit of our colonies. By means of a differen tial duty on the sugar produced in the Spanish colonies the noble lord at the head of the Government might not only obtain the means of providing a greater supply of labour, but possibly of compelling Spain to act more honestly in this matter than she had hitherto done. (Hear, hear.) Mr. K INN AIRD said that for some time past almost the whole of the slave trade had been carried en by vessels bear ing the American flag. He cordially supported the propo sition of the appointment of the consul at Mozambique, and hoped that the noble lord at the head of the Government would lose no time in having a British representative at that port. A consul on that part of the east coast of Africa would be useful not merely in aiding the suppression of this immoral traffic, but of assisting in establishing commercial relations in that part of the world, which would be of great advantage to this country. Lord PALMERSTON said that the house and the coun- try were under obligations to his hon. friend who had brought forward this motion, because it was a subject of the deepest interest, and it was impossible that the House of Commons The t l'auce Wes, t al:, oinu th g ai t t a h h e out abolition Lot too often or too strongly Express its opinions on the it migruhttilb of that abominable system of the slave trade. eof exercisethe been the case th guished, except by the still could not be wholly extin opinion—acting not o ll u e l Progress of opinion—enlightened the minds of the people ' upon the Government, but upon carried on. (Hear.) of late nations in which it was ' that there had been sorneth ing Y in earl he regretted to say on the part of o ur nei g hb ours on the Othe e n r a s tli d r e e o o f f t a ho relapse Chan nel. Not man y y ears ago Franc e put an end t o slavery ls in her colon ies, and there was reason to hope that there was no danger of any relapse. But the first symptoms of re lapse was shown when the . French Government, und er M. G u i zo t, refused to recognise that principle of the right of searc h contained in the treaty negotiated by Lord Aber deen. That wa s an indication t of e system retrograd e opinion on that questi on. Then came h in the French of th e Regis, for obtaining a supply of labour less than v colonies ; but that was not hin g more nor least, so f sla e ar as trade in its purest and simple st forms ; a trade, in one the acquisition of the slaves went. Slaveb i nn i, but re spect, it was not; it was slave trade in the beg inn not in the end. Because, when those unhappy . cre n atures ry did not were landed in the French colonies, where slave exist, they were placed under the syst em of what was termed apprenticeship, which, though disguise d by other names, was really a state of slavery. The manne r in which the slaves were at first obtained was precisely the same as that which was resorted to in order to obtain negroes for Cuba or any other slave-holding country. It was said that ransoms were paid for them, that documents were signed with every appearance of legal formality. But the labourers were obtained by the persons who sold them to France, by all manner of force and violence. The system was the re sult of the ascendency obtained in French councils by the colonial interests, and for a long time the French Govern ment was deaf to all remonstrances addressed to it by the Government of this country, pointing out that this was really slave-trade, and contrary to every principle which the French Government had openly promulgated, and de termined to abide by. (Hear.) At last the French Govern ment determined to put an end to this state of things, pro vided any other means could be found by which additional labour could be procured for the colonies. The only means by which we could whist in that matter was by allowing them to procure coolies from possessions in India, and the question was whether we should do so, on the condition of the French Government putting an end to the liegill Com- pact. There w great objection to allowing French vessels to go t our territories in India for the purpose of obtaining a supply of labourers, and it was necessary that some steps should be taken by which we should be assured that no coolies were taken away except by their own consent, and that they were properly cared for and treated on the voyage. (Hear.) A treaty had been drawn up by which the French autho rities would be entitled to employ coolies from India. It was said that in this treaty the English had given every thing and taken nothing, but that was not exactly the ease. Our object being to put an end to the abominations of the slave-trade, he thought we were right in allowing the French to avail themselves of the labour of the coolies, if by that means we could lessen the amount of slave traffic ; and as soon as that treaty was ratified a copy of it would be laid upon the table of the house. (Hear, hear.) There was no doubt that the crime of slavery still existed. How was it carried on, and what prevented its extinction? No doubt much of the evil was produced by the corruption of the authorities in Cuba and the apathy on the subject which prevailed in Spain. Remonstrances had been made by the English Government and Consuls from time to time. Cruisers had bees despatched, and orders issued, with the view of checking the traffic. The answers received were, that it was the intention of the Spanish Government to in terfere for its suppression,hut nothing satisfactory hsd been done. At Cuba, even when a cargo of slaves was landed, an answer was given by the authorities that they had made inquiries and were unable to trace the fact of the landing having been effeeted. This was a most disgraceful state of things. Still there was hope, for Spain was feeling it to be so disgraceful that she had sent ships to Cuba to exercise a greater degree of vigilance upon the coast. The importa tions of slaves did not take place in Spanish ships only, but in American also. We had remonstrated with the Ameri can Government against this prostitution of their flag, but that remonstrance was considered by them to be an inter ference with their nationality. We then tried various other schemes, proposing last year, for instance, that an English and an American cruiser should cruise together for the suppression of the traffic, but that offer was declined. The member for Galway had suggested the present as a favour able moment for getting the assistance of the North as against the South, seeing that the civil war was raging. It was quite true that when an American cruiser was com manded by a Southern captain no effective assistance was given to the suppression of the slave trade, he having shut his eyes very much to what was going on upon the coast ; but where the American cruiser was commanded by a cap tain from the North, then very vigilant co. operation was afforded. (Hear.) England had also urged upon the Portu guese authorities the necessity of suppressing the traffic; but then it should be recollected that the Portuguese pos sessions on the Eastern Coast of Africa were of enormous length, and that many evils could be committe there un observed by mortal gaze. It was for the interest of Portu gal to suppress the traffic, and he believed the authorities at Lisbon, although they might not be able effectually to control what went on upon the coast of Africa, were wil ling to render every assistance. (Hear, hear.) The pro priety of placing a differential duty on slave-grown sugar had been suggested to-night as a remedy, but that had been discussed before, and it was not a measure to which it would be desirable to resort, because if they levied a duty on the importation of slave-grown sugar they might be asked why they did not apply the principle of lay ing an impost on other articles as well as sugar. He be lieved that the appointment of a consul at Mozambique would have very little influence on the suppression of the slave trade. At the same time, he admitted that that was a point well deserving of attention.' The present Govern ment were most anxious to continue the noble conduct which this country had been for years carrying out with a view to the total suppression of the slave trade all over the world. Cuba might now be said to be the only plague- spot on the face of the globe. Still he did not despair of seeing slavery abolished even there, if not speedily and entirely, yet gradually and largely. (Hear.) Mr. LINDSAY believed that the horrors of the middle passage were greater now than when cruisers were not employed upon the African coast. The subject then dropped. MERCHANT SHIPPING COMMITTEE , Mr. LINDSAY called attention to the Report of the Merchant Shipping Committee of 1859-60, and moved — "That in the opinion of this house, it is to be regretted that the Government has not, in the present session of Par liament, introduced measures to carry into effect the more important recommendations of the Merchant Shipping Com mittee ; that the shipping interest is one of great import ance, and ought to be relieved from all the peculiar burdens and restrictions to which it is still subjected; that more effective measures ought to be adopted by the. Government to induce foreign governments to reciprocate the immuni -1 ties and privileges which this country has granted to the vessels belonging to foreign nations entering the ports of Great Bi Hain and of her colonies and possessions; that the Executive Government should, during the recess, call the attention of those non-reciprocating nations to the anomalous and very unsatisfactory state of our maritime relations with them, and should pre pare bills to carry into effect, at an early period in the ensuing session of Parliament, the recommendations of the Merchant Shipping Committee." The hon. member ad vanced some reasons in support of his motion, but intimated at the close that he had no intention cf dividing the house upon it. Mr. CAVE referred to the passing of the Inland Freight Bill, and remarked that that measure met with no opposi tion from his side of the house, although it was brought forward in a very thin house, at a late hour, when the re porters were very much tired. That bill did not pass the House of Lords, and he hoped the Government would bring forward some comprehensive measure in the ensuing session. Mr. M. GIBSON said with regard to the lighthouse dues, he was of opinion that the merchant shipping should pay that charge. The surplus of those dues had gone to re lieve the shipping interest to the extent of some £61,000 or £70,000 a year. Where shipowners formerly paid £lOO, they now only paid £4O. An agitation had arisen that (here should not be compulsory pilots. Owners held that those pilots were not in their charge, and consequently they were not responsible for damage done when vessels were in their charge. That was a reason why, he apprehended, that the shipping interest would oppose any change. There were only three countries in Europe where we hqd re ciprocity in these matters But shipping was increasing very rapidly. In the first six months ending the 30th of June, in the present year, the tonnage entered and cleared was 5,951,723 tons. In the first six months of 1860 it was 5,628,589 tons, whilst in a corresponding period of 1859 it was only 5,439,277, showing, during those three years, a regular increase. In 1860, the tonnage entered and cleared from British ports during only six months was three. fourths of what it was during the whole of the year 1850. So that, since the repeal of the Navigation Laws, the ia crease had been large and progressive. (Hear, hear.) Again, the increase in value was proportionate to that of tonnage. During the six months ending the 30th of June, 1860, the value of exports in British ships was £10,263,893 against £9,226,454 for the same six months of the year 1860; so that the repeal of the Navigation Laws had not injured the shipping interest, as was anticipated, but, on the contrary, had materially benefited it. He could congratulate the house on a considerable:increase in the exports to Italy under the new state of affairs that had been inaugurated there, in consequence of the changes introduced by the Sardinian government. He quoted these figures to remove any er roneous impressions that might have prevailed on this sub ject. Her Majesty's Government was extremely anxious to remove every impediment in the Navigation Laws, and he felt bound to state that a bill might be introduced early next session with respect to the liability of t hipowners and compulsory pilotage. Mr. CAVE—And a freightage bill? Mr. GIBSON—That would also be included in the pro positions of the Board of Trade. The subject then dropped. THE EMPEROR OF THE FRENCH AND ITALY. Mr. GRIFFITH called attention to the tone and tenour of certain telegraphic despatches which had just been ad dressed to the Italian Government by the Emperor of the French. He said that a few days ago at Vichy the Empe ror Napoleon happened to cast his eye over a Legitimist journal, called the " Gazette de France," where, in the cor respondence from Naples, he read a statement to the effect that General Pinelli had ordered three peasants to be shot for the alleged offence of having carried provisions to the brigands. Without further inquiry, the Emperor sent the following despatch to General Fleury, who was then in the north of Italy : The Emperor to General Fleury.—Vichy, July 21, 10.35. " I have written to Rome to make remonstrances. The accounts which arrive are of a nature to alienate from the thing like th e t,l. Italian cause all honest hearts. Not only misery and anarchy are at their height, but the most unworthy culpa talkies are the order of the day. A General, whose name I That despatch was her forgotten, having forbidden that the peasants should fields, provisions with them in going to their work in the of the 22d, but °nth% morning e followin bread It: been those to be shot upon whom a morsel of !Rind. The Bourbons have never done any " The Gazette of Prancea,u howl). to Baron Ricasoli on the evening igoaf accounttiht s e sam correspondenceo same f d t haey matterth journale fr om L' Italie had given th had caused three peasant; to 11%h announces that General Pinelli who were suspected of Naples of the 9th of July, having conveyed provisions to thebl to contradict absolutely this story on % a r s ' m ay have afforded a pretence for it are We We are able 1 . 1 . hat made by General Pinelli to forbid the bakers in localities exposed to the attacks of the brigands, from making a la i rg ie e: quantity of bread than is required by the population of the place, and from selling it to Corpesons outside ; w hi eli is a measure of simple prudence, revent the maintenance the fact related by the Gazette de France, and assert its and extension of briffandagre. We therefore totally deny statements to be falsehoods, and totally undeserving o f credit." In order, he supposed, to m ake the despatch more insulting to the Italian Government. i t was not sent in cipher, but in the ordinary languge of the country, and its contents were known by every clerk between Vichy and Turin, If bri gandage existed in the South of Italy nobody was more re s ponsible for it than the very man who n ow affected a vir tuous indignation and presumed to insult the Italian Go vernments on account of an erroneous statement in a Legitimist newspaper. He believed that this proceeding on the part of the Emperor of the French would have a very different effect from that which it was intended to have on the Italian Minister, Baron Ricasoli was distinguished for firmness of mind and nobility of character. Not a single inch of Italian territory would ever be yielded by him, and his answer to the gratuitous rebuke from the Emperor of the French would be such as to vindicate the independence of Italy. (Hear, hear.) After a few words from Mr. HENNESSY, The house went into Committee of Supply, when the dis cussion was resumed on the vote for building iron ships. IRON-CASED SHIPS. Admiral WALCOT entirely approved the course which had been taken by the Admiralty as explainedby the noble lord at the morning sitting. The protection of our own shores, our enormous commerce, and our widespread colo nies and dependencies rendered it a matter of vital import ance that our navy should be plated on a footing not only equal, but superior to every other navy in the world. Our naval.supremacy was essential to our existence as an em pire. He should therefore not only concur in the present vote, but next session would give his most cordial support to any increase of the estimate of £2,300,000 which might be thought necessary. He gave every credit to the late First Lord of the Admiralty for his exertions to place our navy in the state in which it ought to be. He wished to know from the noble lord whether the six ships he proposed to lay down were to be altogether of iron or of wood and iron combined. At no distant period he believed the staple material used in the construction of our ships would be iron, but there could be no objection to converting those for which the timber had been prepared into iron cased ships. Independently of large ships like the Warrior and Black Prince we required some of smaller dimensions — not more than 280 feet long,carrying 18 guns, cased entirely in iron and having a speed of about 12 knots an hour. He did not exactly understand what the noble lord proposed with respect to the construction of the ships he mentioned to-day. What was to be their tonnage, what guns were they to carry, and were they to be built entirely by contract, or, to some extent, in our naval yards ? Before the Admiralty proceeded with these ships the Warrior should be fairly tried, not being sent to sea in smooth weather, but with the prospect of a good heavy gale of wind. Captain JERVIS had heard the statement of the noble lord this morning with great satisfaction, and it had also afforded him no little gratification to find the right hon. baronet the member for Droitwich giving the noble lord his earnest support. He had, however, heard with great surprise the right hon. baronet the member for Carlisle (Sir J. Graham), although in a tolerably full house, propose that the vote should be postponed in order that it might be discussed when there was a larger attendance, They ought to support the Government energetically to enable it at the earliest possible period to have as good and efficient a fleet of iron ships as the French pcssessed. The Admiralty could not be too careful in the steps they were taking with respect to the mode of constructing iron ships. In asking now for only £250,000 for this purpose the Government were acting judiciously. We had to reconstruct a navy which should have the mastery of any other navy in the world, and the average cost of each iron-cased-ship was estimated at half a-million sterling. He wished to know whether the Ad miralty had determined to condemn rolled iron plates, and to confine themselves entirely to the making of steam ham mered plates instead. Mr. LINDSAY said that the right hon. baronet the mem ber for Carlisle, when this estimate was brought forward at the morning sitting, thought the matter too important to be considered in so thin a house. The question was now re vived at the evening sitting, when the attendance was not any larger, and the right hon. baronet himself was absent. It was a great question whether by this enormous expendi ture we were not creating a greater danger from within than that against which we were seeking to guard from without. The effect of our increased armaments would be to induce the French Government to build more ships; and, he would ask, where was this continual emulation of expenditure to end ? He doubted that the French were building 10 new iron ships, and hoped the Government would show some better ground for this proposition than mere rumour. He had sent a gentleman to visit the dockyards of France, and could see no signs of the great preparations that were alleged to be going on. Unless the noble lord could give a sufficient explanation cf the necessity for this vote, he should certainly oppose it. Lord PALMERSTON—It is supposed by my hon. friend that our information rests upon the statement of Admiral Elliot. Now, Ido not in the least degree mean to discredit that report, but we have other information upon the subject from totally different quarters. (Hear, hear.) We know that the French Government have now afloat six iron vessels of various sizes—two of them two-deckers, not fri gates—(hear)--all large vessels. We know that they have laid down lately the keels and made preparations to com plete 10 other iron vessels of considerable dimensions. (Hear, hear.) The design was taken as far back as Decem ber last, but was not carried into effect until May, because they were waiting to ascertain what were the qualities and the character of La Gloire and other ships afloat. My hon. friend says he sent a friend to the French dockyards, who saw nothing. I remember an amusing story called "Eyes and No Eyes"—(laughter)—one person who saw every , thing, and the other, who made the same tour, saw nothing ; but the one who saw was right, for the things he saw were there, and the things which the other man did not see were not the less In existence. (Hear, hear.) Well, here are six ships afloat, or which could be completed in the course of next year. Ten others are begun, which will be completed, with ordinary exertion, in the course of 18 months or two years, and which by great exertion might be completed in less time. We know that the French Govern ment have great dockyard establishments. The area of their dockyards is, I believe, three or four times that of our own, They have an almost unlimited amount of labour, for they are not now occupied in building purely wooden ships, and if it were their interest or their view to hasten in any great degree the completion of these iron vessels—there is no il lusion about them, for we know their names and the ports at which they are being built—if it suited them to hasten materially the completion of these ships, they might proba bly finish them in 18 months. That makes 16 iron ships ; but besides them France has, I believe, 11 floating batteries, as they are called, but two or three of which are very powerful seagoing ships. That makes 27 ships which they might have fit for sea at the end of two years, (Hear.) My hon. friend asks if this is to go on, England increasing her force and France increasing hers. But I soy in this case France has taken the lead. It is not our rreparations which induce France to make her preparations; but it is her great prepa rations which render it indispensable we should make cor responding preparations. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman tells us to look at home and spoke about a bad harvest, interrupted trade, the industry of the country impaired and thwarted. Those would be unpleasant and lamentable results, but are we, in anticipation of those evils,with our eyes open, to add an additional evil—(hear) — that of having another country superior to us at sea? Is that a remedy for those evils? Upon the contrary, it would be a great aggravation of them, and would expose this country to a condition which my hon. friend, as a good Englishman, would be most unwilling to see it exposed. There is nothing in what he has said to jus tify the vote which he announced his intention of giving ; and I hope, after this explanation, he will not feel it neces sary to continue his opposition to the vote. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LINDSAY hoped tha; the Secretary to the Ad miralty would tell the house in what ports and arsenals of France the six great iron ships, the 11 powerful iron-cased batteries, and the 10 ships laid down were to be found. If what the noble lord had stated was true—and he ought to be accurately informed—his statement was quite alarming, and he for one would not be satisfied with a vote of £2,500,000, but would be prepared to vote double that sum. France had no right to have these ships. If she had them, she could not _be honest in her professions to England— (hear) —and it behoved us to know what she meant by such armaments. He could not help thinking, however, that the Government had been misinformed. Mr. HENLEY should not have offered any observat ion on this question bat for the remarks of his hon. and gallant friend (Captain Jervis), who had found fault with his pro posal for postponing this debate. Already the discussion that had taken place had been a full warrant for that post ponement. (Hear, hear.) The statement just made by the Prime Minister was not unimportant. (Hear, hear.) His hon. and gallant friend said that when the Navy Estimates were proposed, the house had been forewarned of these supplementary votes. His hon. friend must have had quicker ears than himself. He should have been much snrprised if, when the noble lord had proposed the Navy Estimates, any one had discovered in his speech any ground for the opinion that a supplementary vote would be taken pledging the country to a future cxpenditure of £2,500,000. The noble lord had taken credit to himself for having made a candid statement to the house of the purpose for which the £2,500,000 was re quired. But if this supplementary vote had been an nounced when the Navy Estimates were under discussion, it m ould have been a mere matter of course, on which it would not have been necessary for the roble lord to have said one word. (Hear.) His hon . and gallant friend urged the Government not to go on in haste, and to do nothing blind fold. He recommended them to try experiments on iron cased ships—on the Warrior, for example, which was almost the only iron-cased ship we had got. It did not seem, how ever, very satisfactory to build up a ship at a vast expense and then batter her to pieces. (A laugh.) It was not quite clear whether the idea of building iron-cased ships did not first come from us, although the French had worked it out more rapidly and continuously. We had waited to see whether modern artillery would batter these plates or not. It was now quite clear that, under all circumstances, we must go on. (Hear.) He did not think the country had any choice in that respect, but he disagreed with the hon. member (Mr. Lindsay) in thinking that this was a matter to be regarded as one of hostility on the part either of France or England. The hon. melnber had no right to say that it was any proof of hostility on the part of France to choose to have a navy. The French always had a navy. We destroyed it at the time of the Revolution, but France chose to have a navy again. Nor was it a proof of hostility if France thought that iron ships were better than wooden ones. We ought to look at this question irrespective of France, and to take care that we had a navy equal not only to that of France, but all other nations put together. E ve ry small State was building iron -cased ships now, and if we waited until cun ning men in artillery battered the Warrior to pieces and ascertained the number of plates that would resist shot, we should fall so much behind that when the pinch of the game came we should not be able to fetch it up. (Hear.) The Government must have time to build these ships, and if we did not go on at the same rate as other nations we should find ourselves behind in the race. (Hear, hear.) It was the duty of the house under such circumstances not to look with too jealous an eye upon what the Government might do. The Government must do the best they could. No man could tell whether plating in this or that way would eventually turn out most successful. He rather believed that until we went to war, which he most sincerely prayed, we might not do, we should not really find out whether big ships or little ships were best. If the Government did their best, the country—at all events he could answer for himself, would lint find fault with them if experience should prove they had been mistaken. The country, in any case, would have to pay the piper, that could not be helped. The hon. mem ber (Mr. Lindsay) had taken a very curious course. (Hear, ' hear.) He said that he did not believe anything that any body else said in comparison with the information he had received, yet he said that if the statements of the Govern ment were to be believed the £2,500,000 was a mere fleabite, and that the house ought to vote £5,000,000. He thought when the Government stated that they had the information which they said they now possessed—and the noble lord the First Minister had used a strong expression, for he said he knew it—it was no matter if a hundred other per sons went to look about, opening their eyes, or shutting their eyes, and perhaps having no eyes to see at all — (laughter)—for the latter proceeding ought not to weigh for one moment with the country against the po,itive declara tion of the Prime Minister. (Hear.) He therefore, should certainly support the present vote. (Hear, hear.) Lord C. PAGET considered the observations of the right hon. gentleman to be so completely to the purpose as to render unnecessary any further statement in favour of the present vote. He was sure the country would agree in what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman—(hear)—and, therefore, on that point he should not say another word. With respect to the hon. member for Sunderland, he re gretted that a gentleman of his knowledge and experience in shipping and love of country (for he had stated that very day that he was willing to vote any sum that might be ne cessary to put the navy on a proper footing), should have expressed himself as he had done in the face of being told officially. as he had been over and over again, of the in crease of foreign navies in regard to iron-cased ships. Every word which his noble friend at the head of the Government had stated he could affirm to be fact—(hear)—and he could also inform the house that the increase in other navies was going on in a ratio corresponding with that of France. (Hear, hear.) Austria was building two iron-cased ships; the King of Italy was building two, and had two others ordered to be constructed; and Spain was building two. Here were not less than eight iron-cased ships over and above what were possessed by France, and he believed that Prussia, and, in fact, every continental nation were moving in the same direction. The right hon. member for Carlisle had that afternoon asked whether this additional sum was to be the ultimate cost of these ships, or whether this expenditure was to go or. over and above the ordinary estimates of the year. It was impossible to state anything with certainty for the future, but he was quite sure that the Duke of Somerset was anxious, inasmuch as there was to be this great expenditure in building iron-cased ships by contract, that there should be certain corresponding reduc tions made in the dockyard expenditure. (Hear, hear.) He trusted that, if matters remained peaceable, and no un foreseen and unfortunate event occurred, in future years there would be a still further decrease of expenditure in the dockyards. This year the Government decreased this ex penditure by something like £300,000. The hon. member for Finsbury seemed to think that because the Government were going to build these very large ships of iron, therefore the Admiralty had changed their mind, and had given up the building of wooden ships. It would be very improper that such an idea should go fert i le. There was no intention whatever on the part of the Admiralty to give up wholly the building of wooden ships. (Hear, hear.) When these great sized ships were conceived he believed that wood had not strength for the purpose ; but for corvettes, gunboats, and the usual fleet, which must be maintained for the pro tection of British commerce all over the world, as yet iron vessels had been found no substitute whatever. (Hear, hear.) Therefore he trusted that it would not be supposed, because it was necessary to construct at once a certain num ber of very large iron-cased ships, that in future there would be no further building or repairing of wooden ships in the dockyards. (Hear, hear.) The hon. and gallant member for Harwich seemed to think that the Warrior no sooner than completed was to be battered to pieces. (A laugh.) That was not the intention of the Admiralty. What they weye preparing to do was to carry on expe riments against a target precisely similar to the side of the Warrior, and that target was now being constructed, and would no doubt be the object of very interest ing experiments. He trusted his hon. friend would not per severe in his opposition to the vote, for in so doing he would be acting against the wishes of the country. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISRAELI—If I were to judge from the speech of the Foreign Secretary the other night, and from the address of the noble lord this evening, I should suppose that the good understanding between England and France is in great peril. (Hear, hear.) That is not my opinion. Not withstanding the rumours which are in circulation, I be lieve that that good understanding will be maintained, and I am still of opinion, which I have always expressed in this house, that on that good understanding the happiness of the world and the cause of progress and civilisation mainly depend. (Hear, hear.) Then, how is it that ques tions of this irritating nature are mixed up with points of business details, such as those which ought to occupy the attention of the committee of supply this evening ? There is no doubt that a great change has taken place in ship building. There is no doubt that no country is so much interested in the best construction of vessels, and of vessels of war especially, as our own country. But it does not fel low because we feel it our duty to reconstruct the navy of England upon the accepted principles of science which now are acknowledged, that we should be supposed to be taking a course adverse to the interest of any other country, and especially of that country which is so near to us, with which our interests are so various and numerous, and with which, whatever may be the occasional misunderstandings, the general tendency of our policy, no doubt, for the last half century, has been in the direction of increased amity and increased good understanding. (Hear, hear.) Is there any cause for this ? Is it France that objects to the recon • struction of the English navy, or to the building of English iron-cased ships? No one for a moment ever hinted that there was any protest from the other side of the Channel against our course of proceeding in this respect, and I have yet to learn that we have felt it our duty to protest against the course which France is taking. No one contests that France has a right to establish a navy—and a navy of great power, —for such a proceeding is justified by her geographical posi tion, her possessions, and the general course of her conduct in various parts of Europe ; but then it is said by some hon• gentlemen that there is no termination of this competition between England and France as to the respective conditions of their navies. • I admit that if every time we build new ships of war France proceeds to build an increased number, and if every moment we hear that France is laying downnew keels, we are to enter upon an indefinite competition with France, such a state of proceeding would be most hostile, and perhaps fatal to the interests and fortunes of both countries. (Hear, hear.) But what is the use of government or diplo macy, or of cordial understandings, if such a state of things can exist ? (Hear.) I speak with great deference, of course, to the Government, and with the reserve befitting one in my inferior position as compared with the Ministers on this subject;' but I certainly was always under the impression —at least as long as I had any intimate acquaintance with public affairs—that there was on the part of the French Government, certainly for many years past, a perfect will ingness to come to •an understanding with the Govern ment of this country as to the relative proportion of the naval power of both countries, and with a clear acknow ledgment on the part of France, candidly expressed and voluntarily offered, that there should be a superiority—l will not say a supremacy, but a great superiority—on the side of England, in natural consideration of the undoubted superiority in military pow er possessed by France. (Hear.) lam under that impression. I cannot doubt that there is to be found on the part of the Government of France a readiness to come to an understanding as to the definite proportion which should exist between the naval power of the two countries, and if that be so, then I would submit that there ought to be no danger of that unlimited and ruinous competition to which reference has so often been made, and that we ought to see before us the point at which this vast expenditure would be likely to cease. If this be a just ~view then I say it ought to be in :,the power of the Minister to tell us that, while under existing circumstances it is deemed to be the duty of the Government both of England and France to reconstruct their naval forces, they do this, not because they have entered into reckless rivalry, but because they have arrived at the grave and politic conclusion that that re-con struction is to be effected with the understanding on the part of France that the naval superiority of England shall not be a subject of jealousy to her, but that she is prepared willingly to accept that superiority as the natural and in.. • evitable result of the circumstances of the British empire— (hear)—France at the same time expecting from us that we shall exhibit no unjust or unnatural jealousy of her equally necessary military power. (Hear, hear.) If the noble lord at the head of the Government would only come forward and tell us this, with all the authority which waits upon the expression of opinion of a statement of a Minister and especially of a Minister so highly experienced and in tellectual as himself, a better understanding on this subject would, I cannot help thinking, prevail. There would not then be upon the part of France the hostile and irritable feeling of which we have heard so much, nor upon the part of England that undignified panic—(hear)—and that readi ness or reckless expenditure, which I for one entirely de precate. (Cheers.) Am I right or wrong in maintaining the expediency of that course ? The noble lord can tell me that I am labouring under a delusion if such be the case, and that it is a mistake to suppose there exists between the statesmen of the two countries that generous and wise and politic understanding as to the relative proportion of the naval force of each to which I have adverted. If he makes such a statement then I may be induced to believe that the wildest suggestions which I have heard in this house upon this subject may have some authority. But if the noble lord can assure us—and I am unable to bring my self to doubt that he can—that the understanding of which I speak exists, and that France—while establishing—as she is in my opinion perfectly justified in doing — a navy equal to the exigencies of her position and 411 claims on her power and patronage that may Oise, le willing at the name time to poned until the evening, no leading members of the Go vernment being present. Lord C. PAGET deferred the vote until the evening sitting. After some further discussion the vote was postponed. DRAINAGE LAND BILL. This bill passed through committee, and was ordered for third reading to-morrow. _ _ The sitting was suspended at four o'clock. At six o'clock the house resumed. VACATION OF SEATS. Mr. GREGSON gave notice that early next session he would bring under the notice of the house the subject of the vacation of se ,ts by members on taking office, with a view to the amendment of law relating thereto. MARRIAGE LAW AMENDMENT. Mr. M. ➢IILNES gave notice that early next session he would bring in a bill to legalise marriages within certain degrees of affinity. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Sir C. WOOD announced that the house would sit to. morrow (this day). RAILS (HIGHWAYS AND STREETS) BILL. Mr. AYRTON said that it appeared impossible to pro ceed with hi 3 bill during the present session, and he should therefore withdraw it.—The order was discharged. JUSTICES' JUSTICE. • Mr. H. LEWIS asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his attention had been called to the case of Thomas Carter, who was on Monday, the 15th day of July, brought before Thomas Thorpe Fowke and Le Marchant Thomas, Esqre., at the Ryde Police court, charged with being a vagrant and sleeping in the open air at Oakfield, and who was committed by those magistrates to Winchester Gaol for three weeks, and ordered to be kept to hard labour for that period ; and if so whether he has given or intends to give orders for his immediate release. Sir G. C. LEWIS said a letter had been written from his department calling for a report, but it had not yet been re ceived. GALWAY CONTRACT. Mr. GREGORY postponed a motion of which he had given notice, as to renewing postal communication between Galway and America. THE SLAVE TRADE. Mr. BUXTON rose to call attention to the subject of the slave trade, and to the necessity of appointing a consul at 'Mozambique. lle was anxious that the house and the Government should not overlook the increase of the Cuban slave trade, and the importance of supplementing the exertions of the naval force on the African coast by other measures, especially by the reappointment of a consul at Mozambique. Last year, he said, we captured twenty slave ships, and yet the traffic in slaves was flourish ing. More than a twelvemonth ago Lord John Rus. sell (now Lord Russell) advocated the introduction of Chi nese and coolies into Cuba. Although that kind of immi gration was originally abused, the Chinese, owing to their perseverance and determination of character, had secured for themselves good treatment, and were now earning good wages. If more free labour were introduced, it would aid in the good work of abolishing, not only the slave trade, but slavery itself. Every endeavour should be made to drive at the slave trade from Wydah. We ought to exert ourselves to introduce and assist Portugal to do all that in her lay to aid in suppressing the slave trade. The most effectual way to assist Portugal in suppressing the slave trade on the east coast, would be by appointing consuls on the coast. There were some objections, such as that the coast was unhealthy, and that it was a detestable place to live in. It was also said that Dr. Livingstone was appointed a consul ; but his post was far distant, and indeed he was so engaged in ex ploring the interior, that his services as a consul could not be very valuable. He believed that the Government of Portugal sincerely wished to put down the slave trade, as its continuance was opposed to Portuguese interests, and they would be glad to suppress the slave trade to the ad• vantage of legitimate trade. Mr. CAVE expressed his regret 'that they had not the advantage of the presence of the noble lord the Secretary for the Foreign Department. Yet he thought the time was most appropriate, coming so shortly after the letter of the Emperor of the French on this question. He approved of the late treaty, but it appeared to him that we were giving a great deal to France, and receiving very little. He hoped that,",while we had conceded so much to France, we had ob tained from that country some modification as to the law of search. Some speakers were very hard upon Spain, but Spain hardly received a single slave that did not come under the flag of one of the great maritime Powers. The flag of America was much disgraced in this way, and that of France was not wholly unstained. Mr. H. BERKELEY urged the necessity of appointing a consul at Mozambique. Sir J. PAKINGT ON contended that there was no dimi- acknowledge that she views with no jealousy on our part the reconstruction of our naval power in conformity with I recent scientific changes .and discoveries, on a scale greatly superior to that which she has fixed upon as the term of her exertions—if, I repeat, the noble lord can give us that assur ance it will, I have no doubt, have the effect of putting an end to the vexatious controversies in which we have been in the habit of indulging of late, and throw light on the subjeCt. If, however, the noble lord can do this I can hardly think he is justified in rising as he does on every occasion when discussions of this kind take place, and seek ing to impress on the public mind that it is in consequence of unexpected and almost unnatural efforts on the part of France that he feels obliged to call upon the country to make exertions by which those efforts might be overpowered. For my own part, I consider that both nations need not stand with respect to this question in a hostile, invidious, or com peting position. They are both great Powers with vast de • mands on their maritime influence, and which are placed in consequence of the revolution which bas of late years occurred in naval affairs in a situation in which both are called upon to make great efforts to establish an adequate naval force. Instead, therefore, of looking upon one another under those circumstances in a criticising and hostile spirit, the leading statesmen, at all events, of each ought to use every effort in their power to enlighten the public mind, and to point out that the exertions which are being made to create those naval armaments are the inevitable result of that march of science which neither men nor nations can resist—(hear) ---that both countries, so far as can be judged, are justified in the adoption of the course which they are pursuing, and that nothing has hitherto occurred in refe rence to this question which England on the one side, or France on the other, can fairly impugn. But, that being the case, the interference of statesmen may bring about this result, that there shall be on neither side excess or extra vagance of action—that there shall be no unnecessary or wasteful expenditure, and that instead of the people in both countries being oppressed, owing to rival exertions, care should be taken that, as I said before, a mutual understand ing should exist that the naval power of each should be fixed at the relative proportion which the interests of each demand. (Hear, hear.) If these grounds were placed by the noble lord fairly before the house, and if he called upon us to make exertions in thedirection in which he now invites us, with the assurance that neither England nor France was entering on any insane race in the construction of its naval force, but that both were simply aiming at the attain ment of a result which, when reached, would not have the effect of endangering, but rather of consolidating the peace of Europe, then there would, in my opinion, be an end of those panics which we have witnessed and of those hostile sentiments which we hear so frequently expressed. (Cheers.) Mr. WHITE heard with pleasure the sentiments which the right hon. gentleman had so admirably expressed, differing, as they did, materially from those which appeared to find favour on the Opposition benches in the earlier pact of the session. It was evident the right hon. gentleman looked upon the responsibilities of office as not very remote —(a laugh)—aud that he now deemed it the more states manlike course to adopt to come round to views which it was some time ago the fashion to regard with abhorrence when uttered by members who sat below the gangway on the Ministerial side, while every expression of hostility to France was greeted by the followers of the right hon. gen t leman with cheers. But passing from the speech of the right hon. gentleman, he had to complain that categorical answers had not been returned by the noble lord the Secretary to the Admiralty to the questions which had been put to him by the hon. member for Sunderland. He should, however, again put those questions to the noble lord, and if he de clined to reply to them, it only remained for him, in con junction with his hon. friend, to take the sense of the house on the subject. If the required information were not furnished, the prob-ability was he would find on taking up the Moniteur in a few days a flat contradiction given in its pages to the statement of the noble lord at the head of the Government, and he wished therefore to have some more detailed knowledge with respect to how matters really stood. The questions he had to ask the Secretary for the Admi ralty were—what were the names of the six iron vessels now afloat to which allusion had been made ? Where were the ten new vessels being built or laid down, and the eleven boating iron-cased vessels to be found ? Sir F. SMITH said these were points of detail which should be left to the Government. The noble viscount at the head of the Government had assured the Committee that such e force was in course of construction in the French ports, and upon a former occasion the Secretary to the Ad miralty gave the names of the vessels and the places where they were to be found. He hoped the Government would proceed with all possible speed in getting up the strength of our navy. Lord C. PAGET—I rise to give the information which has been asked for by the hon. member for Sunderland with respect to the French iron-plated ships. The Magenta and the Solferino are two-deckers. The Magenta is launched, and the Solferino is either launched or will soon be so. The Gloire is afloat, the Normandie is afloat, the Couronne is afloat, the Invincible is afloat, the Saigon is afloat, the Pa lestro is afloat, the Tonnante is afloat, and the Devastation is afloat. Hero we have ten vessels, two of them line-of battle ships, four of them with 36 or 40 guns each, and four belonging to that formidable class which the French call floating batteries. We have then the Provence, the Savoie, the Revanche, the Magnanime, the Gauloise, the Valeu reuse, the Heroine, the Surveillanie, the Flandre, and the Guienne. These vessels—improved Gloires—were com menced in the early part of this year, and are all in course of construction. We have besides the Congreve, the Fou droyante, the Paixhans, and the Peiho—all floating bat teries. There are two other vessels, the names of which 1 do not know, and as to which I have not such correct infor mation, but I believe they are being built as floating bat teries. The Magenta is at Brest, the Solferino is at L' Orient, the Gloire is at Toulon, the Normandie is at Cher bourg, the Couronne is at L'Orient, the Invincible is at Toulon, the Provence is at Toulon, the Savoie is at Toulon, the Revanche is at Toulon, the Magnanime is at Brest, the Gauloise is at Brest, the Valeureuse is at Brest, the Heroine is at L' Orient, the Surveillante is at L'Orient, the Flandre is at Cherbourg, and the Guienne is at Rochefort. Alto gether, the French have 16 large iron-plated vessels and 11 floating batteries, either afloat or in course of construction. Is any further information wanted ? (A laugh,) Sir J. PAKINGTON—I stated this Morning that I en tirely approve the course which the Government have taken in proposing this estimate, and I should not have troubled the committee again had it not been for an error into which the hon. and gallant member for Harwich has fallen with respect to the cost of these iron-cased ships, The hon. ajid gallant member stated that we might take these ships as costing half a million each. Capt. JERVIS—With their armaments. Sir J. PAKINGTON—Even with their armaments the estimate of the hon. and gallant member is exaggerated. The most expensive of these ships is the Warrior, and yet I think I am right when I state that the whole Cost of the Warrior, excluding the armament, will not be much, if at all, more thau £300,000. The sum is enormous, no doubt, but still, as the expense is so large, it is desirable that it should not be overrated. (Hear.) The hon. and gallant member will recollect that of the 18 ships which are pro mised-12 d Warriortodi hm 2 i emiisneeenalAdmira ltysei progress sos eon,ms e,some ada a dt nab timeorde efa 6 rtgehn p ome r o. oeNsvpi remaining tismnewgad will building ww boi be will dsoe — ee f one nn9c ships n r et st e hi dee t r o efwer be fhaobi thercloehy4f the se , m which smaller werer that of the whole 18 ships one half will cost only three • fifths of the sum which the hon. and gallant member has estimated, and the other half will cost very much less. (Hear.) And now I must say that I have heard the hon. member for Sunderland to night with great regret. This morning the hon. member told us that whatever number of ships the French may have we ought to have more. (Hear.) I was sorry to hear him this evening, I will not say retracting that expression, but declaring that if he stood alone he would vote against the proposal of the Govern ment. On what ground ? Because he did not believe their statements. After what the hon. member has now heard I think he must abandon everything like disbelief, which, indeed, he had no right to entertain before. The statements which he refused to credit rested upon un impeachable authority ; the evidence was conclusive, and the hon. member might as well have said that he did not believe this was the House of Commons. (A laugh.) I agree with my right hon. friend the member for Bucks that the question before us is not one of a foolish rivalry be tween England and France. The right of France to have a large navy has never been disputed ; but, on the other hand, we must take care to maintain the same right for England. (Hear, hear.) We have the largest colonial empire and the most extended commerce in the world, and it is our first duty to provide ourselves with an adequate naval force. I thoroughly approve the proposal of the Go vernment, in which I see nothing hostile to France, and I hope it will meet with the approbation of the committee. Lord H. VANE had no doubt his hon. friend the member for Sunderland, after hearing the statement of the noble lord the Secretary for the Admiralty, would at once accede to the propriety of this vote. He did not believe there was any panic in this country, but he was quite convinced the temper of the people would not tolerate that we should be left behind any other country in our naval armament. This proposal of the Government, which had been somewhat tardy, would be found in unison with the public sentiment.ttb wi (Hear.) It was absolutely called for, and he w out a hope that the strength of our naval armament e n n o t would enable us to make reductions in other departments. Mr. LINDSAY must say, after the explicit the noble lord as to the number of iron ships afloat andin statementof course of construction in France, that he had been misled by the private information he had received from a high autho.• rity in Paris ; and under these circumstances he should feel that he was taking on himself a very serious responsibility He if he divided against t his vote. hoped it would pass unanimously. But it behoved us well and seriously to con sider what had fallen from the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire. He had listened to that speech with very great delight. He could entirely confirm the aoi ou werer own. not what the right hon. gentleman had s tated. He believed F rance would not be the last to move in the di rect i on which had )m e b t e o e ni twouldindicated, not be and fu if somelt f France, arrangements The vote was agreed to amid loud cheers. ITh e next vote was one for C0G,229, t o d efray excess of army expenditure. Oti the resolution being put, a personal explanation was made by General PEEL to Mr. Baring in reference to some statistics connected with military administration, which had been used on a previous evening, when discus- sing the estimates of the Indian army. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY moved that the vote be reduced to £lBO,OOO. He said that money was being continually applied for in the shape of army grants, which was as con tinually applied to other purposes, so that Parliament was really losing control of the public expenditure. In the latter part of the financial year 1859-60 there were 9,559 men on the army rolls which the house had never voted for at all, whilst in the last month of the same year there were 11,000 men more than the number voted for. He thought it a very serious matter to be keeping a large standing army without the sanction of the house. The at tempt to do so by those supplementary votes should be re sisted. The hon. baronet then read a number of items in connection with the vote, and selected two for especial con demnation. He asked the moaning of £14,214 for the sur vey of London. What had that to do with the army ? (hear)—the survey of London by' the late Board of Ord nance and the Commissioners of Sewers. (Laughter.) Another was a sum for the survey of towns. They had just voted £250,000 for building iron ships, but how did they know that the money would be really applied to that pur pose alone ? He hoped the Government would be able to give a satisfactory explanation en the point. Mr. BARING, in defending the vote, went over the various amounts, and said with respect to the surveys, they were performed by the men in the Ordnance department, which he apprehended was a portion of the army. General PEEL wished to know out of what funds the excess of £973,000 on account of the army votes had been paid. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained of the appropria tion of funds voted for one purpose to another of a totally different nature. Mr. F. PEEL explained the circumstances under which the debt due by the Commissioners of Sewers to the Board of Ordnance was settled by compromise with the Metropo litan Board of Works. Some discussion ensued to the form in which the Trea sury exercised its supervision over the expenditure of the public money. Col. DICKSON complained of the enormous expenditure of nearly £17,000,000 upon the army estimates of the pre sent year. Sir W. VERNER complained of the influence exercised on the religious teaching of the army by the monks and friars and Catholic priests. After a few words from Colonel DITNNE, The committee divided, when there appeared-- For the amendment 45 Against it Majority.. The vote was then agreed to. On the vote of £637,000 for the disembodied militia, Mr. WILLIAMS objected to the amount on the ground that it was perfectly astounding. He thought the Militia inferior to the Volunteers. . Lord BURLEIGH denied that the Militia had been ex celled by the Volunteers. Colonel DUNNE suggested the propriety of appointing an additional instructor to each corps of Militia. After some discussion on the position of Militia surgeons and other officers, the vote was agreed to. The next vote was a sum of £3o,ooo—supplemental esti mate—for the Volunteers, which was also agreed to. The house then resumed. EAST INDIAN LOAN. The report was brought up and agreed to. SUPPLY. The report of the committee of supply was brought up and agreed to. WAYS AND MEANS. Upon the motion for going into committee of ways and means, Sir H. WILLOUGHBY suggested that the Appropria tion Bill should be printed, in order that it might be placed in the hands of members. The house then went into committee of ways and means) and certain resolutions were agreed to. SIR ROBERT PEEL. Mr. WHITE asked Lord Palmerston if it was true that he had appointed Sir R. Peel Secretary for Ireland, and whether that gentleman was still a member of the Carlton Club? Lord PALMERSTON said Sir R. Peel had accepted the office of Secretary for Ireland. With regard to the Carlton Club he was not in the ,secrets of that body, and therefore could give no information as to whether the hon. baronet was a member of that body or not. WINDSOR SUSPENDED CANONRIES BILL. The remaining amendments to this bill were considered, and the third reading fixed for this day. The Lace Factories, Inland Revenue, and Public Works (Ireland) Bills were severally read a third time. The Pensions, British Forces (India) Bill passed through committee. COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING BILL. On the motion of Mr. COWPER, the order for the com mittee on this bill was discharge& The East India Loan Bill was brought in and read a first time. The remaining orders were disposed of, and the house ad journed at a quarter-past 2 o'clock. COUNTRY MARKETS. WAKEFIELD-JULY 26. - --- We have had some heavy rain during the week, and again this morning; this circumstance has, h owever , but little effect on the wheat trade here to-day, beyond causing holders to be very firm. Fine fresh simples meta fair sale at last week's rates, but other sorts still neglected. Barley nominal. Beans, oats, and shelling dull at late rates. LOUGHBOROUGH-JULY 25. At this market to-day the show of wheat was barely an averagkone, and there was less life in the trade, at the turn lower—white, 60s to 68s ; red, Us to 62s per 36 stone• Barley quite as cheap as in the week previous, malting selling at 37s to 41s per qr., grinding 29s to 32s per 30 st. Oats a heavy sale, but late values obtained. Beans Niem steady. EXETER—JULY 26. Wheat, white.. 7s Od to7s 6d I Barley.. 4s Od to 58 Od Ditto new .7s Od to Os Od Oats . 3s Oa t. 3s 63 Flour, fine, 448 to —s ; seconds, 42s to —s per sack. CATTLE. There was a moderate supply of cattle to-day, and prices were about the same as last week. Pork carcases were ill small supply. Fat beef,p score, 12s to 13s0d Perk carcases,dolOs to lls 6d Lambs, per lb Bid to Od Rough fat Ewes, per lb ....61d to 7a Wethers, d 0...... 7d to oa Fat calves, do.. ,sjd to 6 J 4d per lb. BRISTOL SLIGAR-Juiy 26. - - - - -- We have had rather a q u i e t wee k i n sugars , • and but fey' parcels have changed hands. Prices are steady, but the market closes heavily. Refined goods were in moderato demand. [ADVERTISEMENT.I—Perfect digestion, strong nerve , sound lungs, refreshing sleep, and functional regular% restored, without medicine, purgireg or expense, to the ale' disordered or enfeebled by Du Barry's delicious health re storing Revalenta Arabica Food, which removes indiges tion (dyspepsia), habitual constipation, flatulency, di er _,.; rhcea, dysentery, nervousness, biliousness, fevers, sn throats, catarrhs, colds, noises in the ears, rheumatic' gout, impurities, eruptions, hysteria, neuralgia, irritabiliq: sleepness, acidity, palpitation, heartburn, headache, de b l a lity, dropsy, despondency, cramps, spasms, nausea, 3 2 1 . n., sickness, sinking, fits, cough, asthma, bronchitis, cur,. d sumption, epilepsy, paralysis, also children's complain' Avoid Pills and Medicines : they invariably aggravate 1311 4 .. perpetuate diseases ; their annoyance, disappointnel and expense may be avoided by using Du Barry's •r s which, at a few pence per day, saves 5C times its cost 1_ other remedies, removing effectually, u.thout pu r g ing ] constipation,. indigestion (dyspepsia) nervous, bilious L"' ... 4 .s liver complaints and all their consequences. Cep u .— ij x . e , No. 36,418. We find it the safest remedy. Andrew .„ 1 .. MD., F.R.S., Dr Harvey, Dr. Wurzer, Dr. Shorland, v_... Campell. Let invalids avoid the fearful dangers of sp ot rious and injurious imitations offered under a veri.e'Y t hs false pretences. Nevill's imitations are prohibited eY a . ns t high Court of Chancery under a penalty Alfred ll , mper Nevill and his agents • and thedPfhat Du that Nevill has a patent for Arabica 'Food 8 3 , 1 _ 1 _ fi . Barry's are connected with such patent are utiku •Y Du Barry No canister is genuine without the name Bi d a l a n wrapper. and Co., 77, Regent-street, in full, onthesoene article must Shopkeepers who attempt imposition Packed in tins llb. expect to be distrusted in all others. . ,0 41 b. 40s The of 5,000 sluices arr iage free on receipt ' a:d Co Co., 7.7, Re , 2 12 5. 1b 9 . d. a ; 49 and 60, Bishopsgete d and Co. Abbie, of Post-office order by_ Barry Ir iagon , and 241 b. 4 1 b s .. canisters 6d, i sl b . lie. are a ; eln2tlbev. 2 a 2 r s r y gent-street, London; Fertri t T eapa ide; 63 and 150, 01" 60, Gracechurch-street ; 4, % m u d; bard-street ; 330 and 461, Str Pavement ; Phillips and Ca% and Co., King Willf am .. s trest, tea-dealers; Petty', Wood, dall street ; Batty, 16, Fiusb , Holborn: an szrocra74. City ; at 127 MO ~...2 BIRTHS. On th e 25th inst., at Sudb ury R ectory , ANsorr,— wife of the Rev. Fred. Anson, of a son. H On the 26th inst., a t 23, Cambridge .square f Hyde-Pa' OOPER. rk Mrs. George Hoop er , o f a daughter.Av T UCK ER --On the 25th inst., a t Dam Totten"Tottenh , th e wife of W. Tucker, Esq., o f a daughter. Derby'. shire, th e wi MARRIAGES. HAMILTON — PRINGLE.-0 11 the 18th inst., at St. GOOrg e :". Hanover-street, M a j or t h e Hon. R. Baillie Hamilton/1,1; Mary Gavin, th e e ld est daughter of Sir John and 1-iauJ Elizabeth Pringle. Kent, Thomas Salt, jun., Esq., : rst? SALT—ANpERDON.-011 the 24th inst" Chise.b.uue youngest daughter of John Anderdon, Esq.) ° L hurst. M.P., to 11,elecni21,.stel, BRoDnußsT.—On the D 2Tth A in T st H , a S t . 20, Grosvenor-square, Elizabeth,. wife of Bernard Bdwr Brodhurst, Esq., aged 32. JERRARD.—On the 23d . inst . ; at Brixton, Dirs. Jerrarcit aged 69. LAWRIE.—On the 20th inst., at Llan.dulass. North-Vale l Army, Major-General John Lawrie, M:s Madras Army, 3g 70. Grosven or-stre a t 11. NtHELL.—At her house, in Gay - stree t, Bath, Miss i•-• Nihell, aged 77. POTTER.—On the 2 3 d inst. , at Erith, Kent, from d r ()%v13 ,,;. ing, James Charles, eldest c hild of Charles and Blearl" Potter, aged 11 _years.___ LONDON : Printed and rublished by MURDO 1010 Th o, No. 112, Strand, Printer, at TuE SUN Office, No. 112,5„,t r 0 70 in the Precinct of t he Savoy , in t he Count y pi Dliaw Saturday, July 27, ISt% tEln the Poi C4 - brap a liberali , S - A lee p a CRIPP] (14 g. and (4_ll ] C - axeursi( Taplo w Reading la. 6d. mi bury, ' an Batne da: L° 's TOUR uston LART :NORT wood LAKE /TEN LAE LANe,I YORICs gate UXT, 41 ATL 4,PrlSto,ej i yra and 4 Stati ....___tust 14" r k il t Tl --..olith, a ro rn TO I r A; I T ° n s z 4 ,° bunk bubd, Monti' Aberd ,or f u Sr uston Londe Easton LON , 4Rl:ic Nur DAY s c( eis th( o„ _ of th' Co] F ibiess it; 4ll,l N( it i s 0 1low p 1. The, Lea 2 T he CO( Le t , Act (Ex lieEti reJ itiThe Tr 44 18 i„? Waterl, 1 4ond 0 1 11% ••nd , ~ent a nds ab ka lPorte e d - 0 4 st 0,• Tei f Re a•ctlitate *kb LO( *kit kLOG: RUP if be /lERNIJ the m TlTests, is body, Bch , 4 10c-Mai cios mOtrin_o• e rsq,w. h `lent to A -A , Sing An trnib Ott -0 th e Par it 44 NW! 3s. 1)11' W Decor: for given street, R° Subsc