The Sun. — London, England, 1827-05-16 00:00:00

alcered, could not be dfirtneil. fle begged. save to say One word on the topic to which the Noble and Learned Lord had last adverted. He alluded to the question of free trade. Those resolutions were manifestly directed against free trade; but they did not explain, .neither did he third( the speech of the Noble and Learned Lord had explained, what was there meant by free trade. If. the Noble and Learned Lord un derstood by free trade that all.foreiges articles were to be ad mitted into this cowary, without, paying any duty, then he: must say that !Awl was not his,(Lord : Goderich's) idea of free trade. • Its idea ,was, that this' country should not allow any prohibition. And why? , Because, experience Prcrita, that prohibition s . With regard to manufactures, was the veriest illusion that ever , entered the mind of nun.—(Hear, hear.).—There was no effectual mode of establishing a prohibitory system, so long as money was in existence. Money would defeat all prohibitions. He was a friend to that. free, trade which encouraged the honest dealer, but he wasenquestionably an enemy to the free trade of the smuggler.—(Hear, hear.)—lle conceived it was a most praise -worthy object tp aim at the destruction of that pestilent free, rade ; .the greatest evil, moral and political, by which any country could be tillicted.—(Hear.)—Such was his, feeling, and,if their Lordships looked into the evils which were the result of the old system, they would parti cipate with.hirn in that feelin g . If Noble Lords had, as was his cases hten connected for 15 years with situations having referance to the trade and commerce of the country, it woukt,be impossible for them not to feel, in the first in stance, the ill effects produced by this monstrous system of smuggling ; and, in the second, that the only remedy for those evils was to give fair and free acesss to every descrip tion of foreign manufacture. He therefore felt, that they Aught even to endure some degree of inconvenience, if by s o doing they could put art end to this system of fraud,—to this system of perjury ; nay, he would say, to the system of murder which had been too long continued.—(Hear.)—At present they were obliged to surround their whole coasts with armies and fleets, to check the smuggler in his illi cit career,—a proceedingwhich he contended was as in consistent with the principles of a free constitution as it was contrary to the'best interests of the country.— (Hear.)--He had raised his voice against that system. and, in opposition to it, he had advocated the principles free trade. He thought, however, their Lordships had already gives pretty unequivocal proofs that they sincerely approved of those principles ; because they had supported and carried laws that were emphatically founded on those liberal principles and no other. In 1825 his Majesty had recommended, in a speech from the Throne, the adoption of those principles; and what was their Lordships' answer: In the address to the Throne they stated that they would give all. the assistance in their power.to any measures that would tend to remove those inconvenient and mischievous restrictions. Now, having in 1825 given that pledge, it was utterly impossible for them to vote for the resolutions of the Noble and Learned Lord, unless they were prepared to unsay and to undo what they had already solemnly said and done. -He owned that he felt warmly on this part of the subject, because if there were any portion of his public conduct in which he took a pleasure and a pride, it was in the support which he bad given to the establishment of liberal principles, in opposition to those that were now brought forward by the Noble and Learned Lord. He might take one of two courses on this occasion.—either to move the adjournment, or to propose the previous ques tion. But as the motion was for going into a Committee, he conceived the best thing he could do, was to move that this House do now adjourn. The Earl of LAUDERDALE could not suffer this di, cuesion to terminate without thanking his Noble :ind Learned Friend for the tale.nta which he had displayed, and the great pains which he taken, and the extensive know ledge he had _shown in drawing up those resolutions, which whatever might be their fate that night, must produce a strong effect on the minds of their Lordships and of the country at large. Since those resolutions had been laid ea the table, they had not been assailed with that list of calumnies and lies directed against the landed interest, which the House had been in the daily habit of hearing for some time before. Those resolutions being placed or' their Lordships' journals, containing as they did the sound= est political doctrines, would go down to posterity and would be read with admiration by future generations. He would have said little more on this occasion, but for the manner in which the Noble Lord opposite had treated some of the propositions before their Lordships. The Noble Earl (Lauderdale) then proceeded to argue in favour of the reso lutions. He denied the assertions of the Noble Lord op posite, with respect to the argument contained in the sixth resolution. That resolution set forth that the act of Charles H. was efficient for the preservation of the aoTieul ture of this country. The Noble Lord opposite ' denied this; and he asserted, that there never was a time when agriculture was in a state of greater distress than in the reign of George 1., when the law of Charles 11. was in full force. The Noble Lord had alluded to the publications of that day as a proof of the fact. Now few men had read more of the publications of that period than he (Lord L.) had ; and yet he could not charge. his memory with the recollection of any work which stated such a fact. On the contrary, there was a fall of price, and no importa tion of corn. Therefore, he should conclude that there was at that period a sufficient production, and a suffi cient market.—(Hear.)—He here begged leave to read to the Noble Lord a passage from a pamphlet written by a Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson) whole authority, especially as he was a colleague of the Noble Lord, would he believed, carry some weight with it. What that Right Hon. Gentleman stated was, as he declared, the result of a consideration of this subject for 80 years. He said, that for 170 years, the cheapness produced by importation was a proof of sterility, occasioned by want ofcultivation ; and he went on to observe, that a steady home supply was the proper means of ensuring a moderate price. " For 100 years, up to 1765, (the Right Hon. Gentleman asked), what wag the state of the country with respect to corn ? It was this—that, under ordinary circumstances, their own ground supplied a stock of corn sufficient for home con sumption, and in some seasons they even exported." At that period, the p: ice of grain seldom varied more than a few shillings. Allusion bad been made to the period be tween 1766 and 1773. Did corn at that time fall in eon eequence of importation ? Did the manufacturers then find that they had cheaper corn? No : for although that foreign importation was held out to the manufacturers as a great boon, their Lordships would find, that from 1766 to 1773 the price of corn was raised, though the ports were open for the importation of grain. The Noble Lord had argued against the proposition that foreign grain would be paid for with gold. But if he examined the documents ow this subject, he would find that in the first years of the late war no less than 60,000/. sterling were sent out of England for corn ; and yet the manufacturers derived no benefit from it. The Noble Lord bad said, that the year 1826 afforded art extraordinary instance, which contradicted the resolution of his Honourable and Learned Friend. The Noble Lord stated that more corn was im ported in the year 1826 than in the year 182 t, and yet that there was in the former year a great influx of gold into the country, instead of the money being drained out of it. He believed that there had been a large importa tion in that year ; but did that circumstance invalidate in the smallest degree, the facts stated in his Noble and Learned Friend's resolution ? Very plain reasons could be given for the circumstances to which the Noble Lord had alluded. The Noble Lord must recollect, that, in the commencement of the year 18i6, the effect of those va rious joint stock companies and schemes, which had been called into action in the preceding year, was still power fully felt. It was to this, as he should presently show, that the influx of gold was to be traced. He remembered publishing, in 1804, a treatise, in which he stated that if the sinking fund were continued on the footing on which Mr. Pitt had placed it, capital would be rendered so abun dant at home, that at length individuals, for the purpose of procuring a higher rate of interest, would employ it abroad. A man whom it was his misfortune to have lost--a man of the most extensive capacity he had ever met with—he meant the late Mr. Fox—read the proof-sheets of that Treatise ; and he had a letter from that great statesman, in which he asked—" Do you think it possible that an Englishman would trust his capital in the foreign funds?" Now, the Noble Lord opposite and himself had lived long enough to see that there was not a fend in Eu rope that did not contain a large quantity of British capi tal. If the Noble Lord asked the Bank itself, or those who supplied it with the money to which he had alluded, he would find that that money would not have been forth coming bat for the demand which had been suddenly created in this country, on account of the speculations he had referred to, and the extensive sale of foreign stock. The influx of that 6,000,000 of gold, then, did not sur prise him, considering all the circumstances. The Noble lord had alluded to the subject of free trade ; and now, to his (Lord Lauderdale's) astonishment, after having read the high enloginms that were pronounced on free com merce by the Noble Lord when in the other House, he found that the Noble Lord only meant to make a few re gnlatiens to protect tho trade of the country against smugglers. A system of free trade was, perhaps, better than a system of restrictions; but the continuance of such a system depended on universal peace and general brother hood. He did not think it would be advisable to proceed farther with this discussion, as a Bill would be shortly de bated which would let in the whole question. Therefore, he hoped his Learned and Noble Friend would be satisfied with the good which he had done by the publication of his resolutions, and that he would not press the subject farther. Lord BEXLEY contended, from a comparison of the number of Inclosure Bills, from the Revolution to the year 1773, and from the latter year to 1815, and also from a comparative view of the amount of population in both those periods, that the system which was in force prior to 1773 was not so beneficial as that which had. con tinued from 1773 to 1815. From - the Revolution to 1773, the number of Inclosure Bills was 690; from 1773 to 1815, the number was 2,852. The increase in the population was equally great. The Earl of ROSSLYN argued, that the production of the country had been greatly increased under the sys tem recognized by the Act of Charles 11., and the people were supplied with corn at a much lower price, in con sequence of the protecting plan then introduced. If the Noble Lord looked to the period during which that act was in force, he would find, that corn was as low 3n this country as elsewhere. The Noble Lord had mentioned the subject of inclosures ; but from what other circum - stance did the great number of inclosures take their rise, than from the great demand for corn, which could not he supplied but by the cultivation of the land? 'doge Inclosure Bills did not apply to new lands, but to the old, in order that they might be cultivated in a more profitable manner. Earl STANHOPE, after the luminous statement made by the Noble Earl near him, thought it would be more convenient to postpone any expiesaion of the feelings of the House until the second reading of the Bill which had come up from the Commons. The Noble Viscount oppo site had stated that it was not the fact that foreign corn was paid for in specie. He supposed, therefore, the Noble Viscount had not read the evidence of Sir Claude Scott, given to the Committee of that House, who stated that he never knew a single instance in which corn was paid for but in specie. He was surprised, too, after all that he had heard said of the liberal system of free trade, which was to pour its benefits on the country, to find that that system had dwindled down into a low insignificant plan for pro tection against smuggling. But had it that effect ? Their Lordships knew, on the contrary, that the coast of the country was surrounded by armed men ; they could not forget' the expence of the preventive service. What had been the effect of the free-trade principle with respect to wool? That was now in many respects an unsaleable article, and the value of the lands upon which wool was produced was diminished one-half. In conclusion, lit , hoped his Noble Friend would he contented with the good he had already effected by moving his resolution, and he (Earl Stanhope) for one, would not oppose the adjourn ment. Lord REDESDALE, in reply, stated, with respect to what had fallen from the Noble Lord opposite respecting enclosures, that enclosures bad been made for centuries past by agreement. He was greatly surprised that none of the Noble Lords opposite had said a syllable respecting Ireland. The cultivation of that country was in a state of progres sive improvement, and the introduction of foreign corn would materially affect the importation of corn from Ire land to this country. With respect to the resolutions, the reason of his producing them at all was the tone and angry manner which had been employed in presenting peti tions against the Corn Laws. Many of those petitions were drawn up upon revolutionary principles, and had been supported in many cases in what he thought was revolu tionary language ; he therefore thought it necessary to bring some motion before the House, in order to afford the House an opportunity to express its sentiments upon the subject. It was not his intention to oppose the adjourn ment, because the resolutions had so far answered his ob ject, as they had produced a discussion on the subject, ho thought it would have a tendency to shorten the discussion on another occasion. The question of adjournment was then put and carried, and the House rose at a quarter before eleven o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, TUESDAY, MAY 15. The gallery was not opened this evening until a few minutes before five o'clock, the House being engaged in ballotting for a Committee to try the merits of the county of Limerick Election petition. The names of the Members of the Limerick Election :Committee were called over, and the Members sworn as .follows:—Mr. J. T. Lambert, Sir A. Chichester, Mr. A. .Sanderson, Lord Viscount Clements, Mr. F. Sotheron, 'Mr. W. Wyndham, Mr. J. Russell, Lord Viscount Man deville, Mr. Pendarves, Mr. J. Campbell, Mr. W. Mar - shall, Mr. G. Lucy, Mr. R. Gordon, and Mr. M. :Fitzgerald. The SPEAKER said, that a report had been presented from the Committee appointed to inquire into the merits of the bill, for abolishing small tithes in the united parishes Eof Beaumont and Kirkandrews, in the county of Cumber land, and that the report stated, that the Committee had !made certain amendments in the bill, which they called upon the House to agree to. Now it was his duty to inform the House that the amendments thus alluded to, began at the first line of the bill, omitting all that followed from the first line to the end. This was making a mere mockery of the first and second reading of the bill, and as all were in terested parties concerned in the mode adopted by the Corn - anittee, he should suggest that leave should be given to withdraw the present, and to substitute another Bill. Leave was then given to bring in a new Bill. Mr. CURWEN presented a petition relating to the I Salmon Fisheries Bill. Referred to the Committee. Mr. CARTWRIGHT presented a petition from North ampton against any further concession to the Roman Ca- Mr. COKE (Norfolk) presented a petition from certain Protestant Dissenters, praying for a repeal of the Corpora tion and Test Acts. Ordered to be printed. t General PEACHY presented a petition from Taunton, against any further concessions to the Roman Catholics. /Ile Gallant General deprecated any measure which would admit the Roman Catholics to power, as the greatest in jury which it was possible for the Constitution, as esta blished at the revolution, to sustain.—Ordered to be printed. Mr. PENDARVES presented a Petition from the Wes leyan Methodists of Penzance, for the Repeal of the Test and Citrporation Acta. THE NEW ADMINISTRATION. Mr. BEAUMONT gave notice, that en Thursday next tie would move a simple resolution, to the effect, that " the Administration, as at present constituted, is not en titled to the confidence of the House or the country." Mr. TIERNEY suggested that another motion which Stood for Thursday night, should be postponed, in order to give precedence to the motion of the Honourable Member for Stafford. Mr. DAVENPORT considered that the motion, of which be had given notice for Thursday, was one of the greatest importance, but yet he was willing to comply with the suggestion of his Right Hon. Friend, and therefore postponed his motion to Thursday se'nnight. Mr. CANNING brought up certain papers relating to the slave trade, which was ordered to lie on the table. Mr. PORTMAN gave notice that on Monday, the 28th May, he would present a petition frem a large body of the )anded proprietors and manufacturers of Dorset in the 'wool trade. He should then think it his duty to direct the kttention of the President of the Board of Trade to the 'subject, and to inquire what measures he intended to pro pose in relation to it. Mr. DAWSON gave notice of a motion on the subject Of Irish Grand Juries. Mr. MONCK presented a petition from the Borough of Reading, praying for the House to take some steps to pre vent the burning of Hindoo Widows. ' Lord MILTON presented a petition from Leeds, pray ing the House to take into consideration the equalisation of duties on East India produce. EAST INDIA TRADE. the causes of her sufferings and agitations. He expressed his regret that there was so little prospect of effecting any considerable improvement in the corn laws, which he eon sidered as another instance of the same kind with the trade of India, of the erroneous principles which had guided all the outward relations of our commerce. The effect of the corn laws system, which commenced in 1815, had been ever since to deprive us of a valuable trade which might have been carried on with the states of the Baltic and those of North America. On the last renewal of the East India Charter, the trade, with the exception of China, was opened to the private trader under certain restrictions, both to the Indian continent and the Archipelago. At the time of the discussions which led to that result, there was a con siderable degree of opposition : it was said, that there was no hope of enlartying the trade, because of the strong religi ons prejudices of the Indian natives, and their own products, which worked against it. As to the cotton trade, for exam ple, it was conjectured that there could be no increase whatever. The objectors admitted that there might be a very trifling increase in woollens, and some articles of luxury but nothing like a demand so considerable as to increase the exports of raw products from India. The increase, however, upon the article of cotton had been truly mar vellous. It was to be recollected, that the cotton manu facture originally existed in India—that our own people had taken both the patterns and the names of their cotton fabrics frtim India; and yet they were now underselling the Indian in his own market, though labour cost here seven or eight times as much as it did there; and though we bad to draw the raw material from thence over half the globe, and send it back manufactured over the same half of the globe. He had spoken of names. They would find the definition of "calico" given in Dr. Johnson's Dic tionary, to be—" cotton stuffs made at Calicut in the East Indies, sometimes stained with gay and beautiful colours." We might look at this new and sudden enterprise in our commerce with astonishment and pride; but we were bound, by all the ties of honour and honesty, which be long to policy and good government, to consider tha injury which this success must bring on our Indian fellow-subjects. He had returns of exports and imports to India, some of them as low as 1822. The Hon. Gentleman proceeded to state the annual averages of the exports and imports in several departments, which he stated nearly as follows : EXPORTS FROM GREAT BRITAIN TO INDIA. Woollens. Anuual average from 1801 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1822 Ditto 1823 & 1824 Cotton Goods. Average of years from 1801 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1829 Ditto 1923 & 1824 IMPORTS FROM EAST INDIA TO GREAT BRITAIN. Indigo. Ibs. Average of years from 1801 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1822 Cotton. Average of years from 1801 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1822 23,535,365 Bengal Silk. Average of years from 1601 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1822 Sugar. Cwt. Average of years from 1801 to 1810 Ditto 1814 to 1822 Ditto 1823 & 1821• These few details showed a most important increase in both ways in the trade with India. But while these important changes were transacting, the duties imposed on East India products were grievous in themselves,—in comparison with the same products of the West Indies, absolutely prohibi tory. The duties on coffee were equal to ad yalorent duty. On coffee from the East Indies, 84 per cent. ; from the West Indies, 56 per cent. On turmeric from the West Indies, 8 per cent. ; from the East Indies, 10 per cent. On rum from the West Indies, Bs. 6d. per gallon ; from the East Indies, 20s. per gallon. On cotton wool from the East Indies, 5 per cent. ; from the West Indies, free. What he complained of was the utter indifference to any consideration of justice or policy in the imposition of these duties, no less than those imposed on our imports into India. Indian manufactured cottons were subject to a duty of 10 per cent. on importation; while ours paid a duty of two and a half per cent. on importation into India. It was like saying, " We have the power and will use it," without any other argument. It was most unjust, and must be re sented, if India should ever feel her strength, and compare the numbers of her population with those of her oppressors; and above all, if these numbers were taught to reflect upon the distance of our own country from our India possessions, and the difficulty of furnishing, under the worst crisis, an adequate force. It was the pursuit of this blind and per vex se policy which caused the loss of our North American Colonies. They were governed as if the mother-country sought to have every advantage to herself, without consi derinc, the Colonies. He wished to draw the attention of the House to the article of sugar, the only one of bulk which was sent from the East Indies, and the consumption of which might be greatly increased._ He was ready to admit the excess of that product in the West Indian Market, and that, in consequence, the price of the article was not affected by the mono poly. He would admit that this consequence was co n firm e d by the admission, under the restriction, of a quantity of East India sugar, which latterly averaged '244,000 cwt., at a duty of 10e. per cwt., and sold at a loss to the trader. But he contended that the consumption might be increased beyond the limits of this two-fold excess, and that in effecting that object, they would not only increase the population, but provide ample and comfortable means for its existence. The consump tion of sugar per head per annum was in England 23ilbs. ; that of Ireland, only 6lbs. What should hinder Ireland, if her population were employed, from consuming 121bs. or 181bs. per head ? Might she not, by exporting manufac tures, and importing and consuming produce, become, in stead of a source of expellee and disquiet, a tower of strength, aad a mine of wealth to the whole empire? He had heard most encouraging accounts of the beginning of the cotton manufactures ; and that whenever the English weavers were pressed by their foreign orders, they imme diately sent large parcels of yarn there to be woven. There were - many features of resemblance between the East Indies and Ireland. They were now both found to be con venient places for the fabrication of cAtons—both being incumbered with a redundant population. They were af flicted with political evils answering in result to the simila rity of that cause. The Whiteboyism of Ireland was like the Pindareeism of India. His object was to move for the appointment of a committee. It was desirable ,to obtain the fullest information for it. He had read a letter to one of the directors of the East India Company, complaining of the impediments thrown in the way of the private trade of India. The company secured to itself in some cases the right of pre-emption. Their resident agents advanced money to the growers, and then shut up the produce, so as to answer the demands of the company. In short, they connected sovereignty with trade in a manner which never was found to answer. The East Indies in their extentfurnished most of the products of the tropics. Besides those which he had mentioned, there were spices and drugs of every descrip tion, most of the minerals, diamonds, and jewels, and about one-eighth of the gold of the whole world. Among these was a great variety of articles exactly fitted for the China market. He trusted that the period would soon arrive,—he alluded to 1833,—when some changes might be expected, when there would be active commerce com menced in that quarter. He complained that the duty on East India sugar should be so high as 371. per ton, and that a duty, absolutely prohibitory, of 64/. per ton should be charged on sugar from the Indian Archipelago; and the same as to all other products from that quarter. He wished to read to the House part of a letter from Mr. Crawford, who stated that before the opening of the trade, it was a rare thing to see a Batavian with any thing of 'British manufacture in the dress. Since which it had be come as rare to see a lady or her child without some por tion, of it being made of English cottons, while the greater part of the dress of other persons was now composed of English woollens. He then illustrated his opinion of the beneficial effect of free trade by . a reference to the compa rative export of sugar in 1814 and 1818. There was ano ther point in which he deemed the removal of restrictions desirable—he meant respecting the emporia at Sincapore 'and other places. It was exceedingly important that the principles upon which these emporia were regulated should be sound, and well adapted for real commercial advantages. In some of these an enormous quantity of spices were locked 'up, under the extraordinary system of monopoly which the Dutch Government exclusively maintained in such • 'articles. It had been long the policy of the Dutch Go vernment to create an entire monopoly of spices and cloves, and thereby secure to themselves the trade in the most va products of tropical climates. Having themselves the possession of spice islands, where the plant was indige mous, that was of very difficult growth elsewhere, they 'adopted an extraordinary policy. They determined that of three spice islands which they possessed, the growth 'should be confined to one (Amboyna.) The clove was -to be cultivated, alone in that island, and destroyed in the other two; and that the destruction should be complete, a fleet was annually to visit these two islands, to see that the growth had been extinguished. This policy was produc tive of infinite evil to the 'islands from which the clove was rooted out, and the nutmegs Were confined to the Banda Islands. In looking at the emporia of the East, it was of vast importance that the emporium at Sincapore should be connected upon principles of commercial soundness, and Mr. WHITMORE rose, pursuant to notice, to move tome propositions concerning the trade of Great Britain with the East Indies. He took a- cursory view of the general distresses of the country, as manifested by the known state of the manufacturing districts, the petitions on 'agriculture, and other subjects now before the House, and the failure of the revenue to the amount of 4,000,000/. or 5,000,000/. sterling in each of the last two years. The compassions which these sufferings must inspire ought to lead them to consider promptly of the means to be applied in the way of remedy. It was not on the distress at pre sent existing that he proposed to found his motion, though that was enough to instigate the House and the Govern ment to listen to any proposals which promiied to facilitate the means of its relief. That distress might be, probably was, temporary, and the resources of the country were not so far exhausted, but that they might reasonably hope to see the country revive to that active state of commerce which it enjoyed in the year before the last. His object was more extensive, and took in 0:1 the peculiarities of our ,situation. We had a debt of most unusual magnitude, and with it we had to maintain a station very considerable among the nations of the world. The wars of ether Euro pean States might involve us in them ; and from all these reasons we were-bound to attempt all practicable means to extend our resources, to enliven the :springs of industry, and to restore their elasticity. Let them look, too, at Ireland. Were they not bound to do every thing in their power to extend the manufactures which had commenced through the whole of that country? He who would do any thing to prevent that result, must have taken, a view but little enlightened of the situation of the two Countries. There was much to settle in the way of reli gious differences ; but the mere removal of these differ ences would not prove a perfect panacea for the evils of Ireland. That country wanted only increased employ ment for her numerous labouring poor, effectually to remove with reference to the Dutch policy it was remarkable that the principles of free trade were elsewhere encouraged by the Belgic Government. Nevertheless they encouraged monopoly in their Indian possessiaas, with the full experi ence before their eyes that the only trade which had ever flourished in the Archipelago bad been a free trade ; for there it had beneficially existed before the Dutch or the British bad secured any possessions in that quarter of the globe, and only declined when narrow restrictive principles had unfortunately prevailed. Referring to the emporia and the importance of their management, he had to remark, that through them chiefly was the trade of China conducted, and there was no other way of trading there, according to Mr. Crawford, consislering the extreme jealousy of the Chinese. It was singular that the place from which alone tea could be collected (he meant Canton), was not either in or near any of the provinces which produced the article. According to Mr. Craw ford, the black tea was brought to Canton from a distance of 300 or 400 miles, which was the nearest point of its growth ; and the green tea, from a distance of 700 or SOO miles. It came all this way to Canton by inland carriage and navigation, and made a difference of 50 per cent. in the price, in consequence. Now, Mr. Crawford stated that the distance was not greater between the mari time ports of the tea provinces, and some of the emporia in Batavia, than from them to Canton ; therefore, that the expense of carriage in the one way would not be greater than in the other, while the advantage of bringing the ar ticle to the emporia would decidedly preponderate. If this plan were effected, a great change would soon be wrought in the trade of the Archipelago. He was quite convinced, that if a committee were appointed, much good would result from their inquiry, the advantages of a free trade would then be clearly demonstrated, and a boundless extent of new commerce would be - opened to Great Britain. Thus would their union with the millions of subjects under their dominion in the east be cemented by a reciprocity nf interest, their rule be more firmly secured, and the happi ness of every class of society, both in Europe and Asia, be far better consulted.—(Hear, hear.)—The Hon. Member concluded by moving—" That a select committee be ap pointed to inquire into the trade between Great Britain and India." Mr. SLANEY (we believe) in seconding this motion, wished, while he consulted the interests of his fellow countrymen at home, likewise to regard those of their fel-, low-subjects in the east, who were neither really or virtu ally represented in that House. The motion before them was well adapted to pave the way for that larger question, which they would have to discuss a few years hence, in volving the future government of so many hundred millions of human beings, who were consigned to their sway. He entreated them to weigh well the value of a moral policy, which would leave its enlightened tracks along its course, and mark the remembrance of British benefits should the Indian empire ever pass from British rule. It was incum bent upon them to remove some blots from their legisla tive and commercial policy, and show that, however ex traordinary was the origin of their eastern possessions, the natives had at least largely benefitted from the change. —Mr. Gibbon, in referring to their Indian empire, had said, that " the richest and moat extensive provinces of the great conqueror of the Mogul empire now belonged to a company of Christian merchants in an island of the north ern ocean." It was time they should show the world, that small as was their executive, they were yet governed by great principles. Their East Indian possessions had been treated more commercially than morally; but he trusted it was reserved for those who had sowed the first seeds of liberty in America to introduce, at some future tune, the beneficial advantages of their tree institutions into the heart of Asia.—(Hear). Mr. LEYCESTER was influenced to support this motion for eventually repealing the higher duty upon East India products by a number of unanswerable reasons. First, by consistency : for, what could be more inconsistent than while they were urging the principles of free trade at home, to be forging fetters and raising barriers against it in their Indian possessions? Justice, in the next place, called for the alteration : for what could be more unjust than to cut down the English landlord to the lowest point, for the pur pose of maintaining high prices to support local and parti cular interests elsewhere ? It was also called for by policy ; for, what could be more impolitic, than at a time when the heresy of emigration, found adVocates, owing to the nished employment of the people, to shut out from that people the means of extending their commercial relations, and thereby securing an acquisition of new employment? It was called for by humanity : because, what could be more humane than to oppose the system of keeping up the price of sugar at a rate which prevented one drop of sweet from falling into the bitter cup which the poor of England had to drink ? The repeal of the tea duties vies likewise called for by public opinion ; for nothing was so sorely felt by the community, as the maintenance of these. extravagant prices for an article in constant use. It was a grievance, an injury, and an insult to prolong such a system. The alteration was also called for by a just view of the West India interests, and if carried into effect would prevent the people acting upon that for which they were fully prepared, namely, a Weat India non-consumption sugar agreement. —(A laugh.)—All these monopolies ought to be swept away; the people would no longer submit to them. . If the Government once repealed these duties, they would have in their hands the power of inducin g the people to sacrifice their outrageous appr e h ens ions of Popery, and their morbid sensibility about Protestantism.—(Hear.) Mr. HUSKISSON• said, that the last speaker seemed to think the equalization of the sugar duties a work of the greatest facility. If the present plan was onerous, and still to continue, the Hon. Member seemed to think he had at least an obvious remedy in what he called his non-agree ment sugar consumption. There was no novelty, how ever, in that recommendation ; it had been talked of for several years, without accomplishing any of the foreboded results ; for though the Hon. Gentleman had told them the people were of late prepared to act upon it, yet the real fact was, that the consumption of British plantation sugars had considerably increased within the last year, and produced a revenue over and above all drawbacks of not less than 5,000,0001. sterling. He agreed in almost all the general principles concerning trade which the Hon. Mover had propounded, and as far as they could be fairly and justly brought into practice, he was anxious to see them promoted. lie admitted that if any impost were proved to be unjust, it was the duty of Parliament to con sider how it could be repealed ; and with respect to the distresses of the manufacturers at home, particularly those in the cotton trade, to whom the' Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Whitmore) had alluded, he was sure it would give him satisfaction to know, that that lately suffering class of the community, which had excited the utmost sympathy for the manner in which they had endured their privations, was now improving in almost every branch of the cotton trade, and that the same improvement extended to the silk trade. The workmen were now getting higher wages, and their employees able cheerfully to pay them out of the increase of their trade.—(Hear.) —Agreeing, as he did, in the general principles of the Hon. Gentleman, he was only at issue with him as to their application. It was always difficult to adapt great changes in the com mercial relations of a country to the existing interests which were to be affected by them, and , had grown whole consumption of the United Kingdom, and that sur plus must find a vent in the other markets of Europe, where it had to encounter the sugars of Brazil, Cuba, and the East Indies, and to obtain &price of course dependent upon its open competition with them. How was it if the East India sugars were so cheaply obtainable, that this surplus of the West India produce, which was described to be so much dearer in price, could find, as it did, n foreign market? With this single observation he dis missed the Hon. Gentleman's remark upon this being a tax upon slavery. He (Mr. fluskisson) was no more partial to slavery than the Hon. Gentleman. No man, indeed, could be favourable to a system which was so pregnant with evils—(hear) ; but legislators must remember that the existing system in the colonies could not be speedilt extinguished, without the ruin of both the masters and the slaves.—(Hear.) —This was the evil of hurrying forward great changes, before those upon whom they were to ope rate were duly prepared to encounter them. As to the pre ferable advantage of importing East India sugar, why was it not observable in the other ports of the world to whieh that trade was open ? The ports of the Archipelago wen open to America, Sweden, Hamburgb, and other places, and where was the proof of such a benefit as the Ho nourable Gentleman alluded to ? Indeed, he did not believe that if the sugar duties were taken off, there would be an increase of the exportation of it from India, for it now came home at the very cheapest rate, owing to its being brought more as ballast than an article of trade, and at a very small freight, and yet it was a discouraging traffic. He was quite prepared to admit, that the regula tions respecting the refining of sugar were not of the most satisfactory kind (hear, bear), but that was a subject of great difficulty, open to the conflicting opinions of different interests; still he hoped to effect an improvement in it, S . as to satisfy all parties.—( Hear. )—He preferred, as a gene ral plan of action, to move gradually and progressively. without giving a sudden shock to subsisting institutions, opinions, and prejudices; and he was quite persuaded that by following that system, he should best remedy the exist ing grievances. By modifying the laws for the refining of sugar, he believed he should best promote the essential ma ittifitcture at home. But at the present period of the Ses slop, he must object to embark in the large inquiry which his Hen. Friend's motion comprehended. To lay down any system of policy which should be permanent, and to say that they would be governed by any particular rules, un der whatever circumstances, would be utterly to destroy the commerce of the country, and to lose all those advan tages which other nations were not tardy in turning to ac count. True policy would not confine itself to any rules from which it was impossible to swerve, but would bend to cir cumstances, and vary as the advantage of the country mad it desirable.—(Cheers.) —With respect to another part of the speech of his Hon. Friend,—he . meant that part in which he alluded to the cheering prospect which the num ber of islands in the Indian sea held out to him of a great extension of commerce,—lie had to state, and with great satisfaction, because it was the result of those principles of policy which he (Mr. Huskision) had recommended, that Singapore and other great emporiaa were included in those regulations which the East Indian Company had consented 'to adopt.—(Cheers.)—Those ports were now as free and as open as possible, no tonnage or duty of any description being demanded. This was the commencement of a system which, in his Opinion, promised the most beneficial results. He had recommended it as a much wiser course to maintain for a time the expense of those establishments, which, in all probability, would, at no very distant period, form the centre of an extensive commerce, rather than to levy small duties at first, and thus risk the destruction of so fair a p ros pect.--(Cheers.)--What effect these regulations 'would have upon the trade with China and elsewhere it was not for him now to anticipate ; hut he must say that he confidently looked forward for the time when the British flag should be seen to float between the western part of America and the eastern part of Asia. In the mean time it was the office and the duty of Government to lay the foundation, and to prepare as it were the high ways for that commerce.—(Cheers.) —lf he might be al lowed to advise his Hon. Ft iend, he would recommend him to wait until the result of those experiments, which were al ready in progress,had become apparent. He would recommend him to defer this Committee for a time, because he believed that it would be able to discharge its duties far more satisfac torily when it should be in possession of the result of those experiments; and he thought that the Committee would be instituted at a much better thee than the present if it were deferred until the period when the renewal of the charter of the East India Company should come under the consideration of that House.—(Cheers.)—He was quite as anxious as his Hon. Friend could be to extend those prin ciples of free and unrestricted commerce which he had advo cated, as far as the rights of other parties would allow them to be extended. But he did not think this moment was well chosen for carrying into effect the proposed object, be ease* other measures were now in the course of executien,and because it was necessary that the result of those measures should be first seen. To bring this question on now would be to excite and to inflame those anxious alarms which it was his earnest wish to allay ; and for that reason, and not because he disliked the principles of his Hon. Friend, he felt obliged to object to the appointment of this Com mittee. He would not detain the House longer than to say a word or two upon what had fallen from his Hon. Friend respecting the extension of the trade of England to Ireland. He would not now enter into the reasons which ,had prevented that country from entering so generally into commerce as other countries. Be they what they may, he did not see what benefit would result from this extension. The measure in which commerce, would be extended ,to Ireland must depend upon the securities which Ireland could afford to property. Considerable improvements hed begun in manufactories there, and he hoped that they would he progressive; but he must say, that he did not think that taking off the duties on sugar could affect the employment of any particular portion of the people of Ireland. All that it could possibly cause would be an in flux of wealth, and, as he had already said, an influx of wealth must depend on other circumstances. He hoped that he had given satisfectory reasons for his objecting to the appointment of a Committee. He hoped it would be understood that he objected, not because he had the slightest wish to oppose or to stand in the way of improve ment, but from a conviction that the desired effect would be obtained without a Committee, since the time was not far distant when an inquiry into the subject must take place. Lord MILTON said, that it would have been his anxi ous wish to support his Hon. Friend (Mr: Whitmore) in his plan for introducing a liberal policy into this branch of commerce; and if the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskis son) had set himself in direct opposition to that plan, his Hon. Friend should certainly have received his unqualified support. But as Government appeared to be inclined to enter into the inquiry at a proper time, he should certainly suggest to his Hon. Friend whether it would not be better to withdraw his motion for the present. He thought that it would be better to leave the matter to Government-_ that Government entertaining, as he firmly'believed, sound and wholesome views en the subject, rather than to ap point a Committee, in which they would have witnesses stating one thing on one side. and others contradicting them on the other. up and been fostered under a . different system. It was Mr. PHILLIPS commenced by reading some letters the duty of Parliament, in making such changes, to weigh which he had received from Manchester, but from the low well, that in 'benefitting one class, they did not more tone in which he spoke we were unable to collect their than counterbalance the advantage of inflicting an injury . contents. We understood the Hon. Member to say, that upon some other.—(Hear.) —The Hon. Member had stated from the information which he, had received, considerable that the East Indies were rich in the valuable products of improvement had taken place in several branches of mann tropical climes—granted ; but long before Great Britain had facture. In one week loom weaving had advanced 20 per establishments in the east, immense capitals had been in- cent. ; there had been a great demand for heavy goods, and vested in particular undertakings. Many British subjects wages had been raised. This subject was connected with had subsequently embarked their capitals under a system one which bad been touched upon by two Hon. Members which was guarded by subsisting laws. When the trade w h o b a d spoken upon this question—he meant the subject had regularly opened under the East India Company, what ' o f em igration. He had always been of opinion that the was the export from the East to Europe ? Not the raw p e rmanent means for promoting emigration were to be produce, not sugar, net raw cotton, or s ilk, b u t the trade sought for among the agricultural classes. Though the principally consisted of the export of the manufactured commerce of the country had been depressed one year, it article, which this country had to pay for, not in produce had risen in another; and he had certainly never looked or manufacture, but in, the precious metals which were altogether despondingly en the commercial interests. When paid for both, as they were exported from England to other he first stated his opinions in that House respecting the parts of Europe. The returns to the East India trade benefits which would result from a lees restricted connexion were therefore, at the period to which he alluded, made in between the manufacturers of this country and the East cash, the produce of goods sold in the European markets. A great change had, however, taken place in the East If of the East India Corn ever, were correct. the jealousy Indies, he was treated as a visionary , H is o p inions, how -1 India Company's trade since 1813, and it was one which pony in admitting British subject s—which j ealous y he had at the time he had been most sanguine in anticipating. It always looked upon as a grea t misfortune both to the had arisen from the skill and enterprise of individuals who Company and to the country--shad been less, and if they had embarked in the free trade to India—it had partly had encouraged manufacturer s to g o to India, instead of sprung from the suggestions which had emanated from the throwing obstacles in their way , he was quite sure that Board of Control, and Board of Trade, to the East India Company. It was certainly cheering. to observe the the revenues of the Company would have been co nsiderabl y increased. His Hon. Friend (Mr. Leycester) had said that beneficial growth of free trade to. India, and be had no they had cut down the income of the landholders. He doubt that it would continue to increase if not precipitately was at a loss to perceive bow any thing of the kind had tampered with. But they must attend to other interests, as been done ; and fin his own p art be be gg ed leave to sa y ' they advanced in their progressive relaxation of the old re - that he had no disposition whatever to do so, and that lie striations, or else they might injure where they were seriously disposed to serve. He was calmly and delibes. felt no hostility whatever to the l an d h old ers or the ir inte rests.' Though he concurred, with his Hen. Friend who rately bent upon doing justice to the commercial, relations brought forward this motion, yet, after what had fallen of the country : they constituted a subject to which be from the Right Hon. Gentleman on the floor, he thought looked with the deepest and most anxious interest, and 'that it would be better to withdraw it for the present. which he hoped to bring into a gradual improvement. He wished in every respect to improve' the trade in the east, Sir C. FORBES rose for the purpose of expressing his without at the same time sacrificing that of the west. ,acknowledgements to the .Right Hon. Gentleman (the monopoly of sugar, he could not help remarking, With reference to what had been said on the B•t;biect of the President . of the Board of Trade) for the explanation which monopoly did not appear to have materially andthe Hon. Gentleman who had brought .that that he had given, to a ff ecte d he forward the motion, India islands exceeded by 60,000 or 60,000 halide. the , (Mr. Win for the manner in which he had ^fed the subject. He hoped that the Hon. Member price of the article. The supply of sugar from the West 1 tree... . , :more) would take the same view of the question as he did, by leaving it in the hands of the Right Hod' Gentleman, and withdraWing his motion. Mr. SYKES was quite satisfied with the tone and terr per of the debate. He was sorry' that he Was not in ,bta place when the Right Hon. Gentleman made his lunsinoni, speech upon the shipping interest ; but from what he i° heard of it, he must say that he perfectly concurred with him. He had the means of knowing how great the dig tress was which prevailed among the ship-owners of this country. It extended much further thad the House sup' ' posed ; but when applied to upon the subject, though be felt severely, he had always told the parties that it did net. arise from the relaxation laws or from 'the reciprocity system. He thought that those measures were wise as measures of justice. At the same time, however, the, House ought to look to the quarters from whence it co uld be relieved. There was no source of relief so good as the extension of the trade of the country ; and there was fen. f more efficacious means of extending that trade than by throwing open the trade of the Indies. Mr. W. SMITH said, that whether the Hon. Member would withdraw his motion or not he could not determine' He should, however, take that opportuity of making a fe w ', observations on the subject. When they were told t hat the reduction of the duties on West Indian sugar would net hurt the West Indies, and would do no good to Englan d ' he must say, that such an argument, to use a vulgar, pression, cut its own throat. It was clear that there Inn ° , he a fallacy in such an argument. He would show wit" would be the good of the reduction. It would consist in this :—if it reduced the price of sugar, it would be a be nefit to England so far : if it did not reduce the price sugar, England would, at least, be satisfied in having that granted which had so frequently been asked for by numerous petitions. By the supposition, no harm would be done to the West Indies, while they would have the satisfaction of being freed from all future importunities oft the subject. The subject had certainly been treated in „s 4 very proper manner ;—but it was wished to put it w: until the time of the renewal of the charter of the Ea" India Company. In other words it was to be put off in - I lefinitely,—for some undefined period which could len t ' it was true, exceed five or six years,—but no tim e within six years was mentioned. The fact, there' fore, was, that it was to he postponed for five or sib• years without discussion ; and for eo hing a postponemen t s which must, of necessity, be injurious to the question, h e _ had heard no reason. The Right Hon. Gentleman (rig' Huskisson) had spoken of equallizing the dnty on cottons rather than sugar. Now he (Mr. Smith) conceived it to be the duty end the policy of this country to cultivate cot ton in the West Indies, as well as any other article of pr o ' duce. It' it be clear, as the returns would warrant, i , ° supposing, that a larger quantity of sugar was producid in the West Indies now than formerly, it was also a fact whic h -- could not he denied, that the population of the West In dies had been progressively decreasing in proportion as the production of sugar increased. Th e con t rar y w as the fee t with respect to cotton. We could not, therefore, bette r advance the interests of the West Indies than by diminish ing the culture of sugar, rind increasing that of cottOu.--" It was said, that the West India trade was a monopelY; but it should be recollected, that those who were inter ested in that trade had already given up a grea t deal of that supposed monopoly. As the name of the Ma o ' ritius had been mentioned, he particularly wished t° observe, that the increase iu the production of stlg r ,, was at least sevenfold since we first took possession of th at colony. He was quite certain, that this increase in the production of sugar could only have been carried on by s . traffic in slaves. When we first took possession of the Mauritius, the quantity of - sugar Produced there amount ed to between 3 and 4 millions of pounds ; the quantity pa' duced last year amounted to bet Ween 23 and 24 millio n ' of pounds. This fact spoke for itself; and he should will observe, that he could attribute the increase to one eaves only,—namely, the importation of slaves. The Hon. Gen'. deism's in conclusion observed, that if the Hon. Gentlents°,, would consent to withdraw his motion, he (Mr. Smi th/ was sure that the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Huskisso n l would not fail to act upon the wise and liberal systeta °f policy which he to-night professed. Mr. BERNAL was sorry that his Hon. Friend "th e member for Norwich, should have been induced to ent er into a discussion on the subject now before the House, a ft° the assurance held out by the Right Hon. Gentleman °P,; polite (Mr. Huskisson) that the question should meet with the attention of his Majesty's Government. Sir ROBERT FARQUHAR begged to offer himself tc ; the House; and first, he would return his thanks for th very candid and liberal manner in which the Hon. Member for Rochester introduced the point of Mauritius sugar'"' _ Though that was a question affecting the interests of -Tv West India planters, they all handsomely judged it upon l b t: own merits and the justice of the case, and spurned t o t led astray by the artifices of a certain patty, whose g.r eB „ f ,, and sole object was most wantonly to run down and vilify the inhabitants of the Mauritius; not only the inhabitAle t6 but the Government and Administration of the Colony''„ With respect to the observations of the Hon. Member Norwich, he (Sir R. Farquhar) would set the Hon. Die% her for Rochester right in inforMing him, in reply to ha query, that the Hon. Member for Norwich had, ,in . ; speech of an hour and a half, two years ago, defended the justice and advocated the policy of allowing the Matliitli sugars to be introduced at 'the lower rate of duties, u P ° every principle of good faith, wisdom, and humanitY' which the subject so fully warranted. How the Ifon• 6e 4}: tleman can have so suddenly changed his opinions it is - °, *th ticult to conceive; unless, in the blind compliance the i.st s u y sna, i , s g h t. ' e r o is f s,l a aini c ,d e i rt s a 2 i N n svi Marty tiht combined to persecute that 139, act of good faith, after clearing ipsneggc granted the et e t g h di admissioneobuyn ground thato f Hai joyuo,ie t le d r slave-dealing. It was upon that grou u d a l one that it svai assented to. It was acknowledged by th e vo tes of tb a ,, House that not an instance of slave-dealing had occurred sit:if; 1820,with the exception of one single vessel, the Coliii B6l- t 1821,which was chased by his Majesty's schooner, and buttla 'on the shores. " then (said Sir R.) " solemnly pled,,g e p a to the House that no illicit debarkation bad n o place at the Mauritius since that period. I re-asserted th' n same fact in 1826 ; and I now, in the presence Of ss House and of the country, am prepared solemnly todenla;: that not a single instance has occurred up to the Intl,. day. I beg leave to refer to the Hon. Secretary Colonial Department for the truth of this assertion, tsr.ted is vouched in the latest despatches by that distinguto, public officer and highly honourable soldier (Sir L° by Cole). The House will be guided in their judgeee° t e ,so such distinct and authentic information, in prefetee i i 1 the opinions of dissatisfied and discarded officers 'of the 6 0. 0 Government, and to the evidence of perjured sad ie t he He (Sir R. Farquhar) asked pardon of the House for ote e warmth which he had expressed . himself but he tr ° _, that allowance would be made for such scandalous an s „ - a ci founded calumnies as bad been ventured against hioslurthe this subject by the Hon. Gentleman opposite. He de se ;`, o % Hon. Gentleman to produce a single instance of'," 4 4 , dealing since 1820, with the single exception alreaa/tios verted to. He had admitted in this House, in 18 25 ' t hit there had been cases of slave-dealing previously tc,oo - ; but he boldly asserted, and defied the Hon' A nd tleman to prove the contrary, that the utmost exertions every means within his power had been stretched in k case, and a vast responsibility thereby assumed," t° and defeat those abominable violators of the law' be applied to the Authorities at home and abroad t : of operate in those means ; hnd in the inStan c o, smuggling which did occur in - those ear l y Per ( Or enormously exaggerated as they have been, be to ,. R. Farquhar) had not even restricted his did sures to the rigour of the laws then in force, bu l' d i e every thing • within • his p oWer and influ ence to puiliebe offenders ; and 'whe re p owers w e r e found inadeVateolo' c ould only apply to the competent authorities to mak e o oll an d more efficient laws. He knew t oo well, eed JOOO- appreciated the fallacy of those principles which' the r e Gentle Man advocates fen' the sake of effect', to seek the '.tie cutien of the law by the violation of it, or to Po t ' : es ib means by the end proposed. The evidence, as far h i s ist e goes, is already in th e p ossess ion of the House, to tv p ain earnestly entreated, as an act of justice to himeelf 1 1 ,10 Mauritius, the attention of every Member.. He Wr is ocif, c ,' say, "Ex pede Herczdem," but the nature and ° of that evidence,—the nature and character ' vs in Committee,--are sufficient in some measure ,;fr able gentlemen to form an opinion of the case . moor s mn s introduceddierw,i,tv4hsoo had d el b i eeponmspinucpeonprtohvee,edvitdoenbcee that r eas o , and who admitted himself, in his own evidence, tir t ° been bribed to a subornation of felony. With 617110 one other point, the'popnlation, upon which 0 0- 0 _ Members dwell so much, he (Sir R. Farclubar) - D oti s t! since ed theto prove capture,that wt there h t h h e a s exceptionb slaves carried off by the cholera morbus in one I . e t r fro m rre week G th en w t e le e i k n , an w , h h ic a h s h p ,as ut b o e ff en h n is at p u r r o a m ily ise lt d os . t 0.7060; irritating to him. He must add, that' the 'cause , I. ,fiy tb, een llittle tl o e f ° : ' ,13 11 0 ! ' 0° 6 4: 6 creased culture of sugar is easily to be accounted I_°col' destruction of all other kinds of cultivation, by the. pa hurricanes to which this island is peculiarly subjeTaditin the separation of Bourbon, which depriving- recd the LI: •of the advantages as being the emporium, depriving dusw hitant stotdo u direct their l io rthoughts and habits of elusively Mr. SMITH explained. theMarss.erFt.ioßnUofXtTheOHN6nw.onuladrocnoenefi(nseirhßis. Fobsearciritu..yt_ratior,