The Sun. — London, England, 1825-05-17 00:00:00

-aired indiviauals against the County Czurts Bill.—Laid on the table. Mir T. larTABR/DOS presented a petition from the Coach- MASTS of Bath against the revival of the Combination Laws.— leid on the table. MIL W. SMITH presented a petition from the Unitarian Dissenters of Exeter, in favour of the Roman Catholic Relief )iii.—Laid on the table. "Mr. 110B110USZ presented a petition from certain mas ter Cotton Spinners of Manchester, in favour of the regula- Ikon of the labour of Manufacturing Children.—Ordered to be -1111 k. HUME presented a petition from certain Journey _ MS Boot and Shoemakers of Newcastle-upon-Tyne against a seiival of the Combination Laws.—Ordered to be printed. JUDGES SALARIES. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved, ac .4e,.46sig to the Order of the Day, that the House should resolve twit into a Committee of the whole House, to consider the Nth George 111. relative to an increase of the salaries of the Judges. 'fhe SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. LEYCESTER declared, that that was not a time to increase the salaries of public officers, when the President of the Board of Trade was going to make Corn cheaper than it had been for a lono time. He thought that a third assize Haight be established without any increase of labour on the Judges. He could not see why four Judges should sit together las.the Court of King's Bench, and four in the Exchequer, add four in the Common Pleas. Three in each of those Courts would :much better, and the remaining three might go the third Assize. He should take that opportunity of observing aLso, shat the system of the Welch Judges ought to be corrected or abolished ; one of those judicial personages might be seen one day on the bench, a second at the bar, and a third in the character of it politician. The appointment of them yroceedcd generally from their political conduct, or some elose borouech interest. That was a system which ought to be :altered. The SPEAKER having left the Chair, The CH NUELLOtt of the EXCH EQLTER %aid, that it would be an idle waste of the time of the Committee, and an hnnecessary recurrence to previously considered questions, if be should employ any lengthened detail of arguments to im press upon the committee the importance of the subject which behad proposed for their consideration. The House had been long in the habit of attending to the mode in which legal justice was administered through the land, and had often expressed a desire that the seat of justice should be filled by those alone who were competent to discharge the duties of that high official trust. The House had often declared their sense of the importance of those duties, by conferring upon the Judges a . rate of salaries adequate to the labours and the dignity of their station, by occasionally altering the laws which regulated those salaries, and by influencing the removal from the judicial bench of such persons as they considered unworthy of that elevated office.—( Hear !)—lt was not, however, his intention to follow up on that occasion all the observations of the Hon. Member who had last spoken, nor had he then any thing to propose to the Committee relatively to the Welch Judges; his present ob eect was merely to act on the Report made by the Commission for Inquiring into the emoluments of the Judges, and to carry into effect by Bill certain alterations recommended by authority. of that Commission. His first proposal should be to prevent the sale of certain official situations in the Courts of King's Bench and Common Pleas, which were at present disposable by the Chief Justices of those Courts.--( Hear !)—The custom of selling those places, and that by the very chiefs of those Courts, was inconsistent with the independence and dignity of those high Judicial Officers.— (Hear !)—He would grant that the sale of the places under those two Judges was reserved to them by the law which abolished the sale of the situa tion in other Courts, but he would not coincide that the authority even of antiquity could defend a practice which was intrinsically improper. The emoluments arising from the sale of those places served to constitute, in a great proportion, the salaries of those Judges; but as the persons who purchased those may bold them from their youth for a long time, one Judge may never have an opportunity of receiving emolu ment by the lawful disposal of the situation, while another, perhaps his successor, may be able to sell it at the very mo 'tient he entered his office. The contingent and accidental nature of these emoluments was inconsistent with the just principle • of compensating public services. There were four places in the Court of King's Bench which produced very great emoluments ; for instance, that of the Chief Clerk, the Clerk of the Treasury, the office of Customs Brevium, and that of Filacer Utlegium. There was another situation, the appoint. ment to which belonged to the Chief Clerk, and several other places besides ; it' then it was improper that the Chief Jus tice should continue to possess the right of selling the prin cipal offices, it was equally improper that the Clerk should continue to retain the disposal of the subordinate ; the right of selling tho latter should be also abolished.—(Hear, hear !) There were some offices in the Court of Common Pleas also, which were saleable, these he would detail in the Bill, which he hoped the House would permit him to submit to them. There was another important circumstance in the ease of the Judges which also required the correcting hand of reform, namely, that which made their salaries depend on the fees of office.—(llear!)—The mode of payment was inconsistent with the dignity of the judicial station and with the simplicity of the British juridical system. If the litigants refused to pay the fees, the Judge could certainly use legal measures to compel . Lim ; but then was it not lowering of hts dignity to oblige him to exact his official salary by suck an unseemly collision with • the suitors of his Court.—(Hear !)—He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) did not, however, mean to propose that no fees Should be collected ; lie only meant that they should not be paid to the Judges. They may be collected by the present clerks, the expence of collecting may be deducted from them, and the remainder may be paid into the Treasury, and used in lessening any additional expence which a new me thod of paying the Judges may create. The Puisne Judges were also placed in awkard circumstances, their salaries amount ed to I,ONR:a year, arising partly front the Civil List and partly from fees. If the annual sum of the fees was not suffi cient to make up the difference between the grant from the Civil List and the 4000/., they were obliged to call on the Con solidated Fund for it ; and before they received it, to make oath of the precise amount of the fees which they received ; thus they were, in fact, made public accomptants.—( 11 ear !) These were the points recommended in the report of the com mission. Ills proposed arrangement, relative to the abolition of the sale, of those offices, would of course tend to deprive the two Chief' Justices of considerable emoluments. He was of opinion, then, that the regulation of the mode of paying them ought to be founded on some sound general principle.—( Hear!) —lt was impossible to fix the precise suns of the value of those vsinable offices. However, he bad thought of a scheme for the payment of the Chief Justice's salary, which lie trusted would be found suitable to the rank of that great • officer. The Chief Justice of the King's Bench had at present 4,0001. from the civil list ; this sum was lessened by the pay ment of the land-tax and other charges sanctioned by an cient custom ; the remainder of his salary consisted of fees ; and the collective sum amounted to 9.2001. a year, which being reduced by the subtraction of 5001. land-tax, left him something less than 9,0001. Now lie (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought that the annual salary of that officer ought • not to be less thin I0,0001.—(11ear !•) particularly when he re • collected the exalted dignity and importance of the office it self, the high professional rank and character of its occupant, and the eminent talent and great labour which were neces-• sary for the adequate execution of its duties. Next came the --011ie(' Justice of the Court of Common Pleas. This office was certainly inferior to that of the Chief of the King's • ..Bench, in rank, importance, and emoluments. He thought that the distinction between them ought to be still kept up; bat the Chief of the Common Pleas would also be affected - in his emoluments by the abolition of the sale of the places in his Court. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was of opinion diet the salary of that officer ought sot to be less than: 8,0001. a year. . His present salary was not so much as that, but there ought not to be so great a difference between the salaries of the two Chief Justices: not that be was of opinion that the Chief Justice of the Co:nolo:1 Pleas ought never to be raised to the head of the King's Bench ; but hts salary ought certainly to be of such an amount, that be should have no pecu. • Diary reason to feel any extraordinary aspirations for the eleva tion to the higher office on the King's Bench.—(Hear!)—But there was another office still higher than that of Chief Justice of the Common Pleas, namely, the Master of the Rolls, the salary of which was not increased when an addition was being made • to the emoluments of the other Judges; and that in consequence of the delicacy of the Gentleman who then held the office—he alluded to the late Sir William Grant.—(Hear, hear !)—Now • the salary of that officer ought to be placed ceteris parihur on a similar footing with those of the other Judges —(cleer, hear l)--His present salary arose in part from fees, partly from the Civil List, and partly from the rental of an estate belonging to the Master of the Rolls. The total rarely ex ceeded 4,0001. and sometimes fell short of it e and was in fact less than that of an inferior officer, the Vice-Chancellor. He would lay no stress on the additional duty which the :Vaster of the Rails may have to undergo, as Member of the Privy Council, and of a Peer, as Deputy Speaker in the House of Lords; the present salary was inadequate to his rank and ditties as Master of the Rolls. He.(the Chaticeller of the Exchequer) proposed to raise it to 7,0001 a year—he the Chief Baron lie would pro. pace the same salary. The . office had no sale of places attached • to it, and required eminent ability and great labour from the person who may happen to hold it. The Vice-Chancellor would be 'alone wronged if he were omitted amid the ge neral increase—the present salary was 5,0001. He would propose to raise it to 6,000 1 . As to the Puisne Judges, there were circumstances connected with their situation of consie • derable importance. !The aystern of promotion applied to them as to others : their situation ought, on that account, to be mach as to enable Gentlemen to discharge the duties of the office with ability and independence, from the first moment of their coming into it. When the House brought to mind the large annual stun which an eminent lawyer could make at the bar, and the comparatively low salary paid to the Puisne .fudges, he was sure they would agree with him that the situa tion ought to be made, in point of emolument, such a one as would induce men .of -talent .and professional eminence to accept it before age or bodily infirmity rendered them less ca pable of discharging its toilsome duties.—( Hear !)—Their pre sent salary of 4,0001. was too little; he would propose • that it should be ipereased to 6,0001. ; not, how,ever, because they lost anything by'deduction; but on the principle of procuring for the situation, men of character, talent, and learning, while their years and health permitted them to transact the business of it with credit to themselves and advantage to the public.—(Hear, hear !)—He was glad that the )louse appeared to receive his proposals so favourable. He had no motive in making them but to introduce such a method of remunerating those great public officers as may be consistent with the public importance of the official trust, with the dignity of the social station, and the exalted and long.celebrated character of English laws and English Judges.—(cheers.)—He could anticipate no objection on the score of expence ; lie could prove that even in point of economy the plan was better than the existing one: but look , ing at its principle of inducing able and eminent lawyers to take the judicial situations, and of rewarding them in a ratio adequate to their ability and their character, he would feel happy if his system contributed to the distinction and elevation of those re spectable Gentlemen, who so ably filled the office of Judges of • the country.—(Cheers.)--Before he sat down, he should add, that he proposed to abolish immediately the power of selling the offices, which were in the disposal of the two Chief Justices, • and leaving the places which were in the hands of the clerks, to the present holders during their life, as they had purchased 1 them on that condition. _ Mx. DENMAN agreed with much of the principle laid down by the Rt. Hon. Gentleman (the Chancellor of the Exchequer), though he could not admit some of the consequences deduced front it. He assented to the propriety of withdrawing the right to sell certain offices and to receive certain fees, from the Chief Justices of the Courts of King's Bench and Common Pleas, but that would lead him no farther than to make compensation ex actly to the amount of loss those persons might so suetain._ On no principle, however, could he perceive that the Chief Justice of the Common Pleas ought to be remunerated in the proportion to the Head of the Court of King's Bench, which had been stated.—namely, that of four to five. Let the value of the abolished fees be given but no more to each. That the Master of the Rolls should be placed on the same footing with the Vice-Chancellor he had no objection. For the advance of salary to the other Judges he conceived no case whatever had been made out. Their emoluments were never so high as at present, for he understood they exceeded 2,6001. per annum above all expenses, and moreover the proposed addition was not asked by themselves. In 1809, when the salaries of the Judges were last raised, they had to pay 10 per cent. Property Tax, which neelonger existed. But, at all events, he thought the salaries ought to be finally fixed ; and if labour were to be a criterion of reward, the Puisne Judges of the Common Pleas and Exchequer were undoubtedly entitled to less than those of the King's Bench. The duties of the latter had recently been . much increased ; but in the Common Pleas it was no unusual thing for the Court to sit between ten and eleven o'clock in the forenoon, and rise between eleven and twelve. The reason, however, it seemed why the salaries of the Judges ought to be raised was, that persons might be appointed to the office who would discharge their duties satisfactorily to the public. Were not those duties, then, properly performed at present ? And if they were, on what principle was this grant 'proposed ? where was the necessity of holding out further induce ments to Gentlemen of extensive practice at the Bar, when already the' Bench was all that could be desired ? In reality the office was not so much paid by. money, as by the dignity it conferred: and before a man accepted it, he ought to have amassed a competent fortun&—which the exaltation would not add to but adorn. Puisne Judges ought likewise to be immovable, and neither expect Peerages nor translations. The increase from 4,000!. to 6,0001. a-year would not improve the society of those learned persons; they could be nothing but the highest of the middle classes, which was preferable to being the lowest of the higher classes. Neither could they hope to get out of those purlieus of time town which were unknown to fashionable life, for he lately understood that such a place as Russell-square was never heard of at the 'West End of the 31e tropolis.—(A laugh.)—lt therefore appeared to him that the Resolution embraced more than it ought, and he should op pose it. Dr. LUSH INGTON was not satisfied of the solidity on which his lion. and Learned Friend who had just sat down ob jected to the present proposition. There was but one object on all hands—to obtain able, efficient, and independent Judges, and with that view their salaries ought to be adequate to meet all their wants. To abolish the sales of offices in Courts ofJuetice was a result for which even some sacrifices might be made—and, conditionally, his Hon. and Learned Friend did not object to 10,0001. being granted to the Chief Justice of the King's Bench. With respect to the Puisne Judges, he was at a loss how any one could suppose, 4,0001. a year adequate remuneration for their services. It was said, however, that they had made no claim for an increase of salary, and they certainly had not de graded-themselves by doing so; but if it was meant thence to infer that those Learned and Hon. Persons did not suffer great privations from the rate of their emoluments, he must give the supposition a fiat denial. Time Hon. Member proceeded to ex plain the important and laborious duties of the Judges. He could not agree that a man should only be raised to the Bench at so advanced a period of life as to render it an honourable retirement. What was sometimes the consequence of such a system, that Judges continued in harness to the last pm)? It was said that no difficulty had been found in procuring lawyers to accept of seats on the bench. But if so, it was a great hardship to oblige any individual to sacrifice the interest of himself and his family to the public benefit. Upon these grounds he entirely approved of the proposed addition to the income of the Puisne Judges. With respect to the Common Pleas and the Exchequer, his opinion was that they might to share the labour of the King's Bench, and that the obstacles to that course ought to be removed. One of the obstacles in the first of these Courts, he understood to be, that the practice there was monopolised by the Serjeants at I saw, and not open to the Bar generally. Another was certain fees exclusively paid in that Court. The obstacle in the Exchequer arose from the business of the Court being confined to one set of attornies. These, however, were matters of regulation not necessarily em braced in the present measure. Another alteration became ex pedient from time augmentation of the criminal business, which at the Old Bailey had doubled within the last fifteen yea's, and notwithstanding time third assize which had been introduced at the last Lent Assizes, the Judges were unable to dispose of the civil actions. To meet these circumstances, he thought the ju riediction.of the Old Bailey ought to be extended to time limits of the bills of mortality, and with a view to time saving of time in time Court of King'a.Bench the Judges of Assize should be authorized to pamei sentences in Crown cases instead of having the parties brought up to town for judgment. :\ fter a few words against preferment on the Bench, and recommending that a distinction should he made in abolishing fees between those re.; seised as a sinecure and 'those paid-for duties performed, the ' Hon. and Learned . Gentleman concluded by supporting the Resolution. Mr. J. WILLIAMS agreed with his lion. and Learned Friend (Mr. Denman) that time Chief Justices ought to he corn pensated to the extent of their losses, but no farther. The most I important part of the measure appeared to hint to be that which related to the Puisrie. Judges. /le waited to hear of instances where Barristers in the prime of life had refused that office, but found none, although on an average for the last '25 years, no man under 60 years of age had been raised to that department of the Bench. Ile regretted that no provision was mentioned for Judges who retired. The difference in the business of the • different Courts was remarkable—in time Exchequer, he under stood, for the next term, there were but from seven to ten civil actions ; whereas in the King's Bench for Westminster, there were 250, and in the Common Pleas for Westminster, about 25. The cause of' the fei cases in time Exchequer was, that the 16 clerks of the Court were - the only attornies allowed to practice in it. He wished to see means adopted for effecting a more equal distribution of business in those Courts, before the Judges of them were put on equal salaries. Mr. Secretary PEEL felt obliged to the lion. and Learned Member for Lincoln (Mr. J. 'Williams), for the support he had given to' the Resolution. He had explicitly declared, that for the last 25 years no man of less than i;0 years of age could be found to a c ce pt th e o ffi ce of Puisne Judge, and therefore este blished the necessity of applying , the mild persuasive of an additional income, to secure time acceptance of those appoint ments by person s having those Intern et tires, which time Hp. Inourable and Learned Member - seemed to think so indispene sable to time due administration of justice. Such a general ground of proceeding was infinitely better than any instance which could be adduced. The Honourable Member for Not tingham, however. did not agree in this principle with his Hon. and Learned Friend, for he would have none but barris ters who had amassed fortunes raised to the judgment seat. He (Mr. Peel) was opposed to any such etristocratical rale ; let time salary be made adequate to the duties and the dignity of the office, and then, no matter if a man were not worth, 5,0001' in the world, provided he possessed time necessary qua.. lifications, he ought to be appointed. The detailed measures. toadverttel by the Hon. Gentleman opposite could not be ap propriatelythoucgol they coupled pl i t with might he amore considered natural ' a a c U on Z inittee, quencee of this step. The fees received by i n dividuals could pecuniary grant na not be cut off until comp ensat i on were ready to be made the m. At present the private interests of those persons must prevent a fair consideration of, the question. Upon time subject of pro-. moting Pusine Judges to be (grief Justices, he would only ask, was it not possible that it had arisen from the inadequate remuneration at present enjoyed by the Chief Justices which led to the rejection of the office by Barristers of great prac tice and experience, and that it had not arisen from any wish on the 'part of Government to exercise improper influ ence over the Bench. The principle of compensation laid down by the Honourable Member for Nottingham would not apply to the Heads of the several Courts. The emoluments of the Chief Jusoce of the Kine'a Bench were now 9,2001. per annum, and when in future the privilege of selling certain offices was to be taken away he really thought as- they were oblige:l to name some arbitrary sum that 10,0001. was a very moderate amount. With rtipect to the Court of Exchequer, he for one was anxious to have the practice thrown open to the profession, and had had the subject for some time under his consideration. If. therefore, this subject and matters relative to the Common Pleas, were not particularly noticed by his Right Finn. Friend (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) the omis sion diet not arise from any insensibility on the part of his Ma jesty's Government to those considerations, but from their irre levancy to the proposed vote.—( Hear, hear !) Mr. SCA BMA', who was vary indistinctly heard in the Gallery; conceived the sum at which the salary of the Chief Justice aed been fixed as too small. Such an office ought to be rendered worth the acceptance of an Attotney-General who unquestionably, except on the balance of an expected change of Ministry, would not deem it deserving of his notice. The salaries of the Mimic Judges, however, ought not, on the other hand, to be rated-too high, lest it might lead to appointments from political or borough influence. The lion. and Learned Gentleman, after eulogising the anxiety of the present Judges of the Court of King's Bench to dispatch public business, en tered into some criticisms as to the mode in which that end was sought to be attained. The ArI'ORNE 1"--GE NE R A L had only a few observations to offer in reply to the other side. Resides the civil causes of Exchequer, the whole business of the Revenue trials took place there, and after term the Judges sat in Equity in Gray's Inn Hell. The Honourable and Learned Gentleman pro ceeded to justify the sums .proansed to he given as ;Wall tional salaries by the Resolution before the Committee.-- It had been said t7:at no one had ever refused the office of Judge because he could not -afford it. This was not at all necessary ta his argument; ' bet be could adduce the example of Mr. Justice Dampier in contradiction to the statement. A better Judge never eat upon the Bench, yet his had refused the appointment until, he fell into bad health, because he could not aftiird to accept it before. The expences of legal educa tion were not taken into in this question. Neither was it borne in Mind the style of living which, in a Judge, was indispensable. A Barrister, out of 3,2001., could lay by 2,000/. ; a Judge could lay by nothing. lie never knew a Barrister lay by money after he was raised to the Bench ; and what chance, under such circumstances, had a Judge of leaving an adequate provision for his family ? As far as related to the Chief Justiceship, he hoped this proposition would be consi dered its matter of arrangement, the fees being taken into consideration.. For time reasons he had •given he should sup port the motion. Air. SCA:iI.I7TT explained. Sir Ala W. RIDLEY supported the motion. Such were the expences of the profession of the law that he thought it im possible a lawyer could acquire a sufficiency of money to make a provision for his children, unless a higher salary were given to the Judges. The Judges were taken from the most eminent in the profession, and it followed as a matter of course, that as_ a. lit remuneration the. salary should be adequate. Sir C. FORBES said lie entirely concurred in the expediency of the motion. Mr. HUME thought that no grounds whatever had been laid for the. motion. It had not been shewn diet any Judge had ever complained of his situation ; nor had it been shewn that the Bench could be better filled than it had been ; therefore the present motion would inply to any officers of Government with reference to an augmentation of their salary. This he feared was the commencement of a system fur raising public salaries, and therefore he thought it was more important than upon its own ground it appeared to be. lie thought they ought to have further information before they ventured upon such a step. Mr. TIMM AYNE expressed his cordial assent in the mo tion. Ile had followed the steps of the lion. Member for Aber ♦ deen in his motions for economy ; but, upon the present occa sion he could not with satisfaction go along with him. Mr. DENMAN agreed with his lion. Friend the Member for Aberdeen that no case had been mule out fur raising the Salaries of the Judges. Ile thought that compensation should he made for the Lord Chief.lustices' fees, anti that the Master of the Rolls should have the same salary as the Vice• Chance l. lor. Never had more futile arguments been put forward for such a purpose as die present. The best paid was the worst , administered part of the law ; and he moved as an amendment : i that all matters in the present motion excepting those he had mentioned should be postponed for further consideration. Mr. H. DRUMMOND said, that after mature deliberation he was of opinion th:tt the salaries of the Scotch Judges ought to have a reasonable addition. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, said, he had not looked with the same minuteness at - the situation of the scotch Judges when he lad *tamed his resolution, as to the English Judges. fie did not mean; however, to pronounce one way or the other with regard to them. With respect to ire. land,,it should be remembered that the Master of the Rolls in Ireland had received an addition since,the Judges of this coun try. The way to look at this question wzis, whether the salary was adequate to the particular ditties of the office to which it was attached ; and certainly if he thought any office was under paid he should not hesitate to propose an increase. Colonel BM; WELL observed, the Puisne Judge was to re ceive B,ooot. a year whilst the Judge in Ireland received only 5,500 t. lie thought this, considering the labour of the office, was too small. _ Mr. HUME eXplXined. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY said that he came down to the House with the intention of not voting for this motion ; but after what he had heard of the sale of certain claims of the Chief Justice, he felt hound to say that he thought the Right lion. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had made an excellent bargain for the public. Sir F. BuRDETT opposed the motion. The situations of Judges never were better filled, and therefore there was a con clusive argument against the.. I louse of Commons opening the public purse. As a matter of generosity an addition to the sala ries of the present Judges might he made ; but he could not un derstand how it could be a matter of necessity. He did not mean to say that he should be against raising the salaries of Judges, but he thought there was a want of further information before they took such a step. The question for the country was, how justice could be cheaply administered, and if the augmentation of the Judges salaries or the augmentation of their numbers would have that effect, he should feel no difficulty in ec quiescing in a motion to that effixt. Now it appeared to hint that they had no evidence befOre them to justify their taking such a step. They had no means of knowing-that the-proposed measure would have the effect which he contemplated, and in that state of ignorance how could they proceed. He was, there time of opinion th h t th e y h a d no i n f orma ti on b e f ore them to. justify their going beyond the terms of the amendment, - for which he thought himself bound to vote. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that the Hon. baronet waa quite mistaken in thinking there was no information before the House upon which to proceed. The fact was, that there were two or three reports, anti very elabocate ones., of Commissioners, part of whose duty had been to in vestigate the amount and nature of the fees of the Chief Justices. • -air F. Britttx - ra• erplhined. Mr. SCAR I.Erf moved as amendment that the salary of the Chief Justice should be determined by the emoluments of the office for the last 20 years. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, he thought it better to take some specific sum as a proposition, rather than what had been the gains or losses of any individual or individuals. Mr. Secretary PEEL opposed the amendment. He did not think it would furnish an adequate criterion for the proper salary of the officer alluded to. After a few words front 31r. W. SMITH and Mr. DENMAN, Mr. 1101111013 SE thought the augmentation of the Judges' salaries mi g ht h ave the effect of an attack upon the indepen dence of the Rate A man would surrender his honesty for 6,0001. sooner than lie would for 4,0001. This he spoke of man as he was known, and not of any particular individual. He did not mean to say that the Judges were over-paid ; but they had no evidence upon which to proceed to make an addition. op: l O r s . e l t i h . e N m V o li ti "S on O f N or supported7 o the Judges we re paid 3,000 L than 6,1)001., but he should not o p o o l r . tei the measure. Ho had rather 31r. D: GILBERT said, he should support the motion upon general principles. • The two' A tnendments were then respectively put to the vote and negatived without a division. Sir J. WROrI'ESLEY proposed 3,0001. instead of 6,0001: for the salaries of the Pitisne 'Judges. Mr. I )EN3IAN supported the Amendment, which was ne gatived without a divieion. Colon'el BAGWELL thought the Chief Justice in Ireland should he considered and provided for. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE It seid; 'the cis cumstances which gave rise to the measure before the House did not apply to the Judges of Ireland: • • " • Mr. S. RICE said, the question as it applied to the •English Judges had no relation to the. ,Judges. Mr. FORBES the 'Judges of Scotland. ought to be considered by the Hottee. • • • • _The Other resolutions haying been agreed to, the House re- I sumed, and the Report was ordered to be received to-morrow. COTTON Al ILLS. The order for the second reading of the Cotton Mills Regu lation Bill was read. Mr. HORNBY said the House had already legislated on the subject, and further interference with Cotton Mills he considered unnecessary. 11inch exaggeration had gone abroad respecting the working of children. He was enabled to say the children were in a better situation than the weavers working in their own cellars. lie should move as an amendment that die Bill be re gulated a second time that day three months. Mr. HOBHOUSE supported his Bill. Children could not protect themselves in factories, and Parliament had always in terfered. Children were made to work any number of hours for the interest of cotton spinners. There was an Act of Par liament which limited the working of men to ten hours and a half; yet the children were worked twelve hours a day. He could add, that the children worked more than twelve hours.— For five or six weeks Sir It. Peel's Bill was operative, anti the children began to look better, hot the'masters in a short time endeavoured to infringe on it. Few. proceedings at law had been adopted. In the best regulated mills children worked 14 hours in die day in an atmosphere of 80 de..rees. This was described as an evil which called loudly for the interference of Parliament. They ought to do something to remedy the evil. Mr. PENT, could not support the Bill nor the amendment. The Bill imposed a further limitation of- labour. It had been said, a former act on the subject was evaded. That. whieliwas the law of the land ought to be Obeyed, and therefore it might be advisable to give the Magistrates the means of inforeing the iaw. Jr. 3 W. SMITH said the provisions of Sir R. Peel's Bill had been abused in the most shocking manner. - Mr. TULK ,supported the Bill. Mr. PHILLIPS admitted that the Bill had been evaded for the purpose of taking away some of the relaxation allowed the children on Saturday. The condition of the people working in the factories was. better than.that of weavers working at their homes. He opposed the Bill because he thought it would de prive the children of employ. It appeared to bids a dangerous thing to agitate this question. • Sir F. BURDErf thought no Parliamentary interference ought to take placein free labour,: but that argument did not am ply to the case under considenition. All must allow that, great advantage had,been derived from the interference of Par liament in these factories. The fact was, a number of helpless innocent beings had been treated in a most inhuman manner. The employment of children twelve hours a day was a shocking instance of inhumanity. IVould any man work a horse twelve hours every day ? The llon. Baronet said that his feelings on the subject were so strong, that he could not refrain from ex:. pressing them. Mr. G. Prw.trrs explained. 'Sir P. MUSGRAVE opposed the measure. There had been no previous enquiry to shew that the grievances existed. He had no objection to the latter clauses which went to put in execution the existing laws. Dr. LUSH INGTON protested against the doctrines of po litical economy being suffered to preVent the House from pro-. tecting the interests of those who could not protect themselves. Every man who had a spark of humanity in his bosom, ought to oppose the existing harsh system. It was worse than Negro slavery with regard to the unhealthiness of the atmosphere and the quantity of labour. The evidence before the House some years ago proved the scandalous nature of the system. Mere children were not voluntary agents, and the House ought to take them under its especial care. Mr. J. SMITH said, that ahhoughin some cotton mills chil dren were well used, yet there were others where the most frightful oppression existed. Flax mills - were worse than cotton mills, and they ought to be included, but he would not move any amendment to that effect. Mr. EVANS said, that as a proprietor of a large manufac tory, he bore his testimony to the necessity of some such measure. It would even be of service to the manufacturers themselves. No doubt oppression existed, but. he could not admit that it equalled the horrors of Negro Slavery. He gave his most cordial support to the proposition. Mr. G. P1111.1.11'3 explained again. Mr. II ORNIIY then withdrew the amendment. The bill was accordingly read a second time and ordered to be connuitted for Friday. COUNTY. COURTS' BILL. The County Courts Bill was committed on the motion of Lord A lth orp. Lord A LTITORP proposed a clause to extend (we believe) the jurisdiction of the Marshalsea Court. It was agreed to.— The blanks were also filled up, after which the Report was brought up. IRISH BANKERS. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report on the Irish Bankers' Bill. Sir G. MIA, brought up a clause, which was agreed to, to allow the appointment of agents by any of the societies or co, ?artnerships under the 11111.—The third reading was fixed for to-mot row. The Report on the Scotch Small Debts' Bill was brought up and agreed to.—The other Orders of the Day were then gone through, and the House adjourned at IlAme-rAsT ONE. STATE PAPER. Last night Mr. CANNING laid. on the table of the House of Commons official copies of three Treaties or Conventions; namely, one entitled, " The Treaty of Amity, Commerce, and Navigation, between his Majesty and the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata ;" another, entitled a Convention between his Majesty and the Emperor of Russia, respecting the free Navigation, Commerce, and Fisheries in the Pacific Ocean, and the limits on the North-West Coast of America ;" and a third, entitled a " Treaty between his Alit jesty and the King of Sweden and Norway, for preventing their subjects from engaging in the traffic of Slaves.' substance or copies of two of these documents have been already laid before the public.—We publish the Treaty with Russia entire : CONVENTION BETWEEN HIS MAJESTY AND THE EMPEROR OF RUSSIA, Respecting the Free Navigation. Commerce, and Fisheries in the Pacific Ocean, and the Limits on the North-west Coast of America ; signed at St. Petersburgh, February 28 (16), 1825.—Presented to both Houses of Parliament, by his Ma jesty's Command, May. 1825. In the Name of the Most Holy a-.d Undivided Trinity. His Majesty the King of the United Kingdom of Greaf Bri tain and Ireland, and his Majesty the Emperor of All the Russias, being desirous of drawing still closer the ties of good understanding and friendship which unite them, by means of an agreement which may settle, upon the basis of reciprocal convenience, different points connected with the commerce, na vigation, and fisheries of their subjects on the Pacific Ocean, as well as the limits of their respective possessions on the North west Coast of America, h a ve named Plenipotentiaries to ' con clude a Convention for this purpose, that is to say :—Elis Ma jesty the King of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, the Right lion. Stratford Canning, a Member of his said Majesty's Most Hon. Privy Council, &c. and his Majesty the Emperor of All the Russias, the Sieur Charles Robert Count de Nesselrode, his Imperial Majesty's Privy Councillor, a Member of the Council of the Empire, Secretary of State for the Department of Foreign Affairs, Ice., and the Sieur Pierre de Poletica, his Imperial Majesty's Councillor of State, &C., who, after having co mmunicated to each other their re spective full powers, found in good and ape form, have agreed upon and signed the following Articles : : A rticle . l.—lt is agreed that the respective subjects of the high contracting parties shall not be troubled or molested in any part of the ocean, commonly called the Pacific Ocean, either in navigating the same, in fishing therein, or in landing at such parts of the coast as shall not have.been already occupied, in order to trade with the natives, under the restrictions and con- ditions specified in the following articles. 2.—ln order to prevent the right of navigating and fishing, exercised upon the ocean by the subjects of the high contract.: ing parties, from becoming the pretext for an illicit commerce, it is agreed that the subjects of his Britannic Majesty shall not land at any place where there may be a Russian Establishment, without the permission of the Governor or ComMandant ; and on the other hand, that Russian subjects shall not land, with out permission, at any British Establishment on the North West Coast. 3. The line of demarcation between the possessions of the High Contracting Parties upon the Coast of the Continent, and the Islands of America to the North West, shall be drawn in the manner following : Commencing from the southernmost point of the island called Prince of Wales Island, which point lies in the parallel of 54 deg. 40 min. North Latitude, and between the 131st and the 133 d degree of West Longitude (meridian of Greenwich) the said line 'shall ascend to the North along the Channell called Portland Channel, as far as the point of the Continent where it strikes the 56th degree of North latitude I from this last-men tioned point, the line of demarcation shall follow the summit of the mountains situated parallel to the coast, as far as the point of intersection of the 141st degree of West longitude (of the same meridian) ; and, finally, from the said point of inter section, the said meridian line of the 141st degree, in its pro- longation as far its the Frozen Ocean, shall form the limit be tween the Russian and British possessions on the continent of America to the North West. 4.—With reference to the line of demarcation laid dorm in the preceding Article, it is understood— First. That the Island called Prince of Wales Island s .sit belong wholly to Russia. Second. That wherever the summit of the mountains which, extend in a direction parallel to the coast, from the 56th de gree of North latitude to the point of intersection of the 141st degree of West longitude, shall prove to be at the distance of more than ten marine leagues from the ocean, the limit be tween the British possessions and the line of coast which is to belong to Russia, as above-mentioned, shall be formed by a line parallel to the windings of the coast, and which shall never exceed the distance of ten marine leagues therefrom. s.—lt is moreover agreed, that no Establishment shall be formed by either of the two parties within the limits assigned by the two preceding Articles to the possessions of the other ; consequently, British subjects shall not •form. any Establish ment either upon the coast or upon the border of the continent comprised within the limits of the Russian possessions, as de signated in the two preceding Articles ; and, in -dike manner, no Establishment shall be formed by Russian subjects beyond the said limits. 6. - It is understood that the subjects of . ..is Britannic Ma jesty; from whatever quarter they may arrive, whether from 'die ocean, or from the interior of the continent, shall for ever enjoy the right of navigating freely, and without any hindrance whatever, all the rivers and streams which, in * their course towards the Pacific Ocean, may cross the line of demarcation upon the line of coast described in .Article 3 of the present Con vention. 7. It is also understood that, for the space of ten years front the signature of the present Convention, the vessels of the two Powers, or those belonging to their respective subjects, shall mutually be at liberty to frequent, without any hindrance what ever, all the inland seas, the gulfs, havens, and creeks men tioned in Article 3, for the purposes of fishing and trading with the natives. _ _ B.—The port of Silica, or Novo Archangelsk, shall be open to the commerce and vessels of British subjects for the space of ten years from the date of the exchange of the ratifications of the present Convention. In the event of an extension of this term of-ten years being granted to any other Power, the like extension shall be granted also to Great Britain. 10.—The above-mentioned liberty of commerce shall not apply to the trade in spirituous liquors, in fire-arms, or other arms, gunpowder, or other warlike stores; the high contract ing parties reciprocally engaging rtot to permit the above-men tioned articles to be sold or delivered, in any manner whatever, to the natives of the country. 10. EverY British or Russian vessel navigating the Pacific Ocean, which may be compelled by storms or by accident to take shelter in the ports of the respective parties, shall be at li berty to refit therein, to provide itself - with - an necessary stores, and to put to sea again, without paying any other than port and light-house dues, which shall be the same as those paid by 'la. tional vessels. In case, however; the master or such vessel should be wader the necessity of disposing of a part of his - merchandis* in order to defray his expences, he shall conform himself to the regulations and tariffs of the place where he may have landed. 11. In every case of complaint on account of 'an infraction of the Articles of the present Convention, the Civil and Mili tary Authorities of the High Contracting Parties, without pre viously acting or taking any forcible measure, hall mike an exact and circumstantial Report of the matter to their respective Courts, who engage to settle the same in a friendly manner, and according La the principles of justice. • ' , 12. The present Convention shall be ratified, and the ratifi cations shall be exchanged at London,. within the space of six weeka, or sooner if possible. In witness whereof the respective Plenipotentiaries have signed the same, and have affixed thereto the seal of their arms. Done at St. Petersburg!), the 28th (10th) day of February, in the year of our Lord 1025. (LS.) STRATFORD CANNING. (L.S.) The Count 'd e - N ESSE L ODIC. (L.S.) PIERRE DE POLETICA. WEST INDIA DOCKS. STOCK ACCOUNT for the Week ending Saturd4y, the 1.314 of _May, 1825. Delivered. Home Con sumption, itock co Hand. Exporta tion. Articles. I Ilhds , West India -Trs `ills Sugar Brazil - Chests iii avanall Boxes East India 4c 1 Bags Mauritius j Molasses - - Casks Ruin - - f Pus (lids Brandy - - jj t H ril t ic s Holland* - - Pus l 'lds Arrack - - Casks Wine - - 1 Pipe sii(l ___ Coffee • - 4 ?ili a t Bags Casks Do. British Plantation {Bls Bags Do. East India . - Bags G Brazil, St. Domingo, (Bas ks and Ilarannah, do. Bags Cocoa - . { (as { Bags Pimento . . Casks Bags Ginger - f Cams 1 Bass -, _ - 5 Bales 1 Casks Pepper - - - 4, Bags . Cotton Bags Aloes - - Gourd,- Arrow Root - C Casks 1. Boxes Balsam - - Boxes • Jars Casks { Seroos Bills Bags Casks j Casks 1, Bags f Bags 1 Serons No. ( ( 'asks 1 Boxes Tons No. No. • Serons ( Casks - 1 Bags Bales- Galls Casks Casks Casks 1 Casks Seams Vasks j Casks % Bags Boxes Bales Casks f Casks ( Boxes Casks Bgrk - - Cassia Fistula Cloves - - Cochineal - - Elephants' Teeth Gum - - Hemp - - Hides- Horns - Indigo. - Ipecacuanha Jalap - - Whale - Oil Castor - Coco Nut Palm - Pearl Shell - Pine Apple - Rice and Paddy Sago Sarsaparilla - Tallow - Tortoise Shell - Turtle - { Logs • Pieces Plks & Bds • Logs Cedar . . • Pcs &Pik§ African Timber { Logs pieces • Santa Maria . Lobs Pieces Ebony - Tons Lig. 'Vita - Tons Box Wood Tons Log Wood - Tons Fustic - Tons Nicaragua Wood Tons Cain Wood Tons Bar Wood 1 f Tons Pieces ,Brazilletto Tons ' ;Saunders Wood Pieces Lancewood Spars No. stases - No. WOOD. II I ahogau y 2,M9 147 16,931 820 259 1,213 8.592 28,033 7M 18,201 1,111 270 15 21' 158 is 84 1,26 U 11,953 1,860 00,5g3 11,0'23 1,125 4,172 1,742 734 74,634 1.362 3,456 5,767 83A 15 1i 6-1 4,060 167 82G 4,488 • lift 943 148 22,437 ‘ ) . 2 43 29 19 4It t;' 583 3,254 34 3,911 12,906 876 4,316 2,601 35 17 254 i 5,6377 . • 1,5131 4321 1241 39 7,010 55i 6,580 4,209 31,953