The Sun. — London, England, 1825-03-05 00:00:00

- I , to effect—" Spring-guns here. N. B. This is no joke."— .4 !..aughter.)—The Setting of spring-guns had been defended by stens on the ground of necessity, because it was said that with out them game could not be preserved ; but he would rather dtety the necessity of preserving the game, than adndt that of the epiing-guns. It was certain, however, that game could be pre served, and was preserved in many parts of the country, with out the assistance of spring-guns. Since he came into the House that evenin, he had been informed that some persons were in the habit of setting spring-guns for the preservation of their lives and property. He did not approve of such a practice, tot, as he was only opposing the use of spring-guns for the preservation of game, if any Noble Lord would tianie a clause £0 except spring-guns used for the purpose which had been de scribed to him, he should have no objection to the insertion of that clause in the Committee. For his own part, he should - bave only to propose one verbal amendment, which had been suggested to him by the Noble and Learned Lord on the iiroolsack. Lard ORFORD asked the nature of the clause which the Ncble Lord had s igoitiedhis.willingness to insert. Lord SUFFIEIM repeated, that it was a clause excepting hero, the operation of the Bill, spring-guns which might be set for the preservation of the lives and property of individuals ; titer property being so situated that it would be capital felony to ttea:sde it. The Bill was then read a second time.—Adjourned. TIOUSE OF COMMONS. Lord STANLEY presented a petition from Bury, in Lanca shire, in favour of the Liverpool and 3lanchester Rail-road. The SPEAKER was summoned to the House of Peers, and on isicreturn acquainted th e H ouse t h at h e h a d heard the Royal Assent given, by commission, to several Bills (for which see Lord's Report.) Mr. CURTEIS obtained leave to bring in a Bill for the erec- Woo of a new Corn Exchange in or near Mark-lane, London. Upon the bringing up the Report of the Committee on the litaading Orders, Mr. STUA RT WORTLEY gave notice of a motion on lbe standing Orders of the House, but for what day we did not ger. The Report, after a conversation of a desultory nature, in, vati+ch Mr. STUART-WORTLET, the SPEAKER, Mr. NICHOL SON CALVERT, and one or two other Members participated, wris agreed to. HUNGERFORD MARKET. Mr. STUART-WORTLEY brought up the Report on the Hungerford Market petition; wherein it was recommended tat the Standing Orders in respect to such petition should not be dispensed with. TEES AND WEARDALE -RAIL-WAY. llr. E. LITTLETON presented a Petition from Walsall as - lust the Tees and Weardale Rail-way Bill. Lord LOWTHER having expressed his inclination to sup part the Bill in question ' as one of the least objectionable of all the . private Bills that had been brought into the House, and one against which no sort of valid objection had been raised by T.,,cse who opposed it on account of-its alleged approximation to, art encroachment on their land, the -question -.was put on the second reading of the Bill. Sir HENRY HARDINGE said, that of the five large landed proprietors through whose estates this railway was to puss, there was not one who did not dissent to the proposed measure. If that measure was nearly as beneficial as it was re presented, it was not likely that such individuals would not be among its supporters. A noble relative of his, the Marquis of Londonderry, had complained that this rail-way would pass within a mile of his mansion and estate ; but the Noble Lord who spoke last said, that the Marquis could not experience such an inconvenience, because he would not even see the rail-way ]roar his highest window, owing to the broken and undulating nature of theintervening land. But if his noble relative could riot see the rail-way, he was sufficiently near to be annoyed film morning to night with the great noise occasioned by the locomotive engines to be employed. This, it must be admitted, would be an extraordinary nuisance ; and therefore Lord Lon- Oanderry had a just and parliamentary ground of complaint. The fact was, moreover,that this rail-way, after a line of some 20 miles, would enter the sea precisely at a point where there was neither port, haven, town, nor village near it. The ntility of sach a project in a commercial point of view was therefore more t!itin equivocal. It was observed, however, that on a former occa. won, In 1818, when-it was proposed to carry a similar rail-way within five miles and a half of Lord Londonderry's property, no sach objections were offered by that Noble Lord as he now Made. Precisely for this reason—that it was then so distant frwn hini.—(llearl)--All Lord Londonderry asked was, that it should be removed again to the former line, passing about two miles from his estate, instead of one. But since 1813, a nobte person, for whom he (Sir H. Hardinge) had the highest respect, Lord Encombe, the Lord Chancellor, had purchased the ground through which it was formerly proposed to carry the railtsay ; and he could therefore tell the House. that the rea- HOn for bringing it now so much nearer his (Sir H. Hardinge's) noble relative was, that the projectors of the scheme thought it was much safer, and a thing to be done with less risk, to run toe rail-way thus upon the edge of Lord Londonderry's proper ty, than to carry it through the property of the present Earl of tncombe.—(A laugh.)—The Honourable Gentleman con abided by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. -Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said he should support the Ritl, having already presented a petition to the House from the / merchants and traders of London in its favour. He was in formed that out of 110 proprietors of land, through which the proposed rail-road was to pass, only ten were dissentient. The treat advantage of this measure was, that it would bring the coals from that district into competition with those brought trout the Tyne and Wear, and thus he greatly to the advantage of the people of London. Sir J. SHELLY supported the amendment. Mr. WODDHOUSE said, that whatever objections might be made to this particular measure, it could not be denied that the duties on sea-borne coal pressed very heavy on the country. It was thought that every proposal which was made to relieve them ought to be encouraged, and he should therefore vote for the kill being committed. Mr. DAVENPORT opposed the Bill, and expressed his strong objection to the introduction of loco-motive machines, Altich he called " infernal," into that part of the country. Mr. Alderman BRIDGES said a few words in favour of the ford MILTON said, that the present plan had been framed with a ♦iew of accommodating Lord Londonderry, that the line had' been altered so as to avoid his country seat, hut as it hap pened to trench upon two of his Lordship's fields in another place, which fields had been offered for sale, his Lordship chose to dissent. Of the whole proprietors not one seventh dissented. Oen principal proprietor had expressed his willingness to wave bic dissent, if a particular clause were introduced, and this sug- Onion was about to be complied with. LAMBTON expressed himself generally favourable to rail-roads, and the opposition which he should offer to this mea stet was because the good which it held out would not aaunterbalance the evil which it must produce. He wish ed to save the parties the expence of going into the . Committee- A. report had been made by persons well skilled to nce upon the qualities of the coal, in which it was ..=eto be of a description which he had himself found so leas that he had given up working it. The statement now wade to the House was to a different purport, and this deception .he thought, rendered the persons who made it unworthy of the attention of the House. He contended that the number of per sansamenting to the meagureliad been over-stated. He wholly disclaimed all opposition to the bill on the score of interested motives ; it was impossible that he could do so, because the coal in question was of a description with which he had nothing to do I but he objected to it on the ground of its h?ing useless in a public point of view, and highly injurious to individuols (among others, Lord Londonderry) through whose lands the rail-road was to pass. agv. POWLBTT - suivorted - the Bill. Mr. N. CALVEItT and AIT. LITTLETON said a few words In support of the Bill. rdr. Alderman WOOD thought nothing could be more fair than that competition should be encouraged, and that the people offload= should be permitted to judge for themselves whether the Coals were good or not. Mr. T. WILSON supported the Bill. Lore GEORGE CAVENDISH opposed the Bill, because he could not support sach wild speculations when opposed to the .dvantage of the landed interest. It seemed to be a ques tion between a set of *Peculators, and the landed proprietors o ffbc county of Durham. He would gibe his vote for the other side. m r . cURWEN expressed himself favourably disposed to wards the Bill, and - Mr. CA LC ltA FT op_posed it. sir M. w. RIDLEY said, that the chance was very distant that the public of London would derive any benefit from the measure. He conceived it to be a wild speculation, and would therefore oppose it- Mr. phomMl3ll said a few words which were rendered quite inaudible by the ve hement cries of " Question." The Rouse then divided-when the numbers appeared— Fbt the mot i on , 631 Against it, 53 Majority, N. The Bill was then read a secon d time, and o r dered tube com- sited!. 1111. Alderman THOMPSON presented a Petition from the mathanis and traders of London in favour of the Tees Rail- .....2ALAMBTON said, the petition had originally been 11 ,t , he bands of the Member far Taunton (Mr. Baring), who had authorized hitn'to say, that the allegations in the peti tion were founded on the grossest mistakes. The Edinburgh Rail-road Bill was read a first time. Mr. FLE3IING 'presented a Petition from the inhabitants of Southampton, praying for the repeal of the Assessed Taxes. Mr. Alderman WOOD presented a Petition from the inha bitants of the Ward of Bishopsgate, praying for the repeal of the house and winiovr tax, and declaring that they telt no gra titude towards the Chancellor of the Exchequer for his declared intention to repeal•the duties on wine. The worthy Alderman presented a similar Petition from Oripplegate. Sir J. SHELLEY requested the Hon. Member for York -shire to postpone his motion for the second reading of the Game Laws Bill, which was fixed for Monday next, because be could not attend on that day. Mr. S. WORTLEY said, that he could not postpone the motion, because it was difficult at the present period of the Session to find an open day. Mr. LA MBTON moved for a copy of the by laws of Lon don, relative to the Coal Trade.—Ordered. Colonel BAGWEUL presented a petition from:the inhabi tants of Clonmel, praying•for the establishment of Provincial Banks in Ireland. Mr. LINDSAY presented a petition from the Directors of 17 Insurance Companies in the city of London, praying that the House would repeal the duties which affect persons insur ing against fire. The premium which the offices took was two shillings, and the duty to Government was three shillings, be ing no less thud 150 per cent. on the former sum. The Hon. Member. presented similar petitions from Dundee, „Falmouth, and other places. Mr. SCARLETT presented a petiticn against the Bill for the recovery of Small Debts, signed by a number of Gentle men connected with the profession of the law. The Hon. .Herber said, that he considered the measures introduced by his Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) was too violent an innova tion on the existing form of proceeding to obtain the sanction of Parliament. Lord A LTHORP contended that the measure would be attended with most beneficial consequences. The second reading of the Dissenters' Marriage Bill was postponed to Friday next. Mr. ROBERTSON expressed a hope that it would not go through the-House when he was away. • ARMY ESTIMATES. Thal-louse having resolved itself into a Committee of Supply, Lord PALMERS'f ON rose to bring forward the Army Es timates fbr the year. In rising to state to the House the nature of the supply at present demanded, he should begin by point ing out the difference between the items of the last and those of the present year. The total increase of force for the year 1825 was 8,923 rank and file, exclusive of officers, at a charge of 229,6841. At the head of the estimate, title " land forces," the addition seemed to be 11,920 rank and file ; but this was counterbalanced by several reductions which would presently be stated. Upon the item of " staff," there was no materiel alteration—a small sum of 8281., merely, arising from the transfer to that department of some new expenses. In the public • departments there was an increase of 1,8801. The House would probably be aware that the duty of examin ing the accounts of all the regiments of Ireland, anti also the examination of all accounts connected with the militia had been transferred from the audit to which they originally be longed. It would be easily conceived that this transfer had occa sioned a considerable increaseof business in the office to which it had come. He had endeavoured to provide for it by internal arrangements, and hoped still to be able to do so; but businees of that description involved a great deal more labour when it first came into new hands, than it would do afterwards. In the arti cle of medicines there was an increase of 1,0781. ; in the volun teer corps, a decrease of 6,38/.; in the recruiting troops and companies of Regiments in India, an increase of 7,0801. The next item was the Military College ; upon this there was an in. crease of 1,768/. in the vote, but there was a considerable dimi nution in point of actual charge. The estimate aa to the Mi litary College was prepared thus :—On the one hand, the whole amount of expellee was stated ; and on the other, the probable amount of debts to be received; the one item was then deducted from the other, and the difference formed the estimate. It so happened, that in the present year there was a diminution of 11,000/. in the expense; but the expected amount of subscription from the cadets bad di minished in a still greater degree. On the army pay of Ge neral Officers there was a diminution of 17,647!. The garri sons were nearly the same as last year. The full pay for retired officers was diminished by casualties 3,4421. The half pay in the same way, 38,8441. Foreign half-pay was less than last year by 1,550/. In pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals, 4271.—a small difference, arising chiefly in the price of provision. On the out-pensioners of Chelsea hospital, there was an increase of 21,495/. On the Military Asylum, 9701. The widows' pensions had increased 4,11i1!. ; the compassionate list, bounty warrants, and pensions for wounds, were nearly the same as in the last year ; the superannuation had increased, within a trifle, 2,6001. ; and on the veteran battalions, as they were to be reduced, there was a saving of 73,5381. It now be came necessary for him to explain the grounds upon which this increase of force was asked ; and next, the manner in which it was proposed to be effected. Upon the first point, he had at least this advantage--it could not now be urged by the advocates of re duction, that the additional military force demanded was wanted to terrify or coerce the country. In England he saw nothing but prosperity and confidence between the Government and the peo ple; and, even the less favoured region of Ireland, there appeared rays of brighter omen than Parliament had been accustomed to. In dropping this observation, he by no means alluded to the vote winch had passed the house a few nights since. He trusted that that vote had already gone forth through the em pire as a harbinger of peace ; and believed that its principle, if carried into full effect, would do more than thousands of sol diers could ever do to maintain tranquillity in Ireland; but in what he said now, he meant to point merely at those symptoms which had been apparent when the estimates were made ; and the mere general improvements which had taken place in the state of Ireland justified him in saying, that there was nothing in the aspect of that country which ought to weigh in favour of extending our military force. The grounds, indeed, upon which this increase of military establishment was meditated were purely external. It might be a fair question, perhaps, how far it was for the benefit of a country to possess colonies_ whether it was better that she should confine herself to com merce and improvement at home, or form settlements abroad ; but there could be no doubt as to the course which ought to be pursued by a country having already in its possession such colonies as belonged to England. As far as civiliza tion extended in the world—from the most northern point in America to the southernmost extremity of Asia—the for mation of British settlements, and the accumulation of Bri tish wealth, was to be found. To abandon possessions gained at the cost of so much blood and treasure—many of them important outposts for the protection of our commerce, and the security of our dominion—would he a violation of public faith, and a forfeiture of national honour. In estimating the amount of force necessary for th eservice of our coloniesat present, it was impossible to be guided in any degree by the force which had been sufficient for us in any former period of peace. It was not only requisite that adequate garrisons should be pro vided for every station, but it was also necessary that we should have a surplus force, in order that we might have the means of sending . reinforcements, from time to time, to places at which they might be called for. In the present state of our army this could not be done. It was almost impossible, with such means, to furnish strength for the ordinary duties. But reinforcing any where could only be accomplished by abstracting the troops wanted froso the garrison of some other place ' • and, on a recent occasion, when the E a st Indi a C ompany h a d been compelled to desire a reinforcement- of 5,000 men, there had been no means at all of complying with that demand, but by stopping ' five regiments which were under orders for England, and which had already been on foreign service more than twenty years. And this fact led him to another consideration, which was, that the colonial service of a country like England ought not to be converted into a perpetual banishment for all who were employed in it.—(Hear !)---When a man entered the army he devoted his health, his hopes, his prospects to the service of his count r y. Th e feeling which carried him for Ward was one of a paramount description ; it rendered him superior to all considerations of fortune, of personal convenience, of death. But the case was widely different, when, after going through the dangers and fatigues of a 20 years' war, the same man was sent to consume the rest of his days in a pestilential climate, and on a duty which was unpleasing to him. It was hard to tell brave officers who had fought through field after field in a protracted contest, and whose names would be found in every legend which recorded the victories of England—it was hard to tell such men that they must be doomed, now their country was at peace, to end their lives in some remote colony, compared to the service in which their former perils formed an enviable condition.—(Hear, hear! )—He was quite sure that the House would go along with him upon this subject. —The service of these obscure and distant stations was ten times more trying, both to the mind and the bodily strength of an officer, than the severest labours which could be imposed upon him in a European campaign. There was the climate , wasting his life and hi s strength,—the mere formal duties, with our existing establishment, extremely harrassing and constant; and, what was still more galling to the feelings of a soldier, there was not the smallest hope, the slightest possibility, of acquiring distinction.---( Hear, hear, hear !)—lle did trust that the House would feel that this was a state of things which ought not to continue ; and that while it was but their duty to place at the disposal of Government the means of properly defending our colonies, th e y ought also, for the sake of our brave soldi ers , to furnish the means of relieving our fo reign garrisons at a proper time, and, what was scarcely less important, at a prop er season a l ways o f the year.—(H ear !) Assuming, therefore, that such obligations as these did exist, I be would next proceed to the question how the necessary in- crease of force was to be raised. There were three meties of doing the thing; and he trusted that the one selected was the best. First, it was possible to add a certain number of rank and file to the existing establishment of each regiment. Secondly., new regiments Might be raked of the same calibre as those al ready existing. Lastly, (and this was the course proposed to be adopted,) new companies —not merely fresh rank and file—. might he added to the regiments already existing. Now the first plan—the adding mere rank and file—would have been the cheapest, because there would have been no increase of offi cers above the rank of subalterns. But the objection was this— the country would not then have obtained at Ironic such a dis posable reserve as was necessary to make proper arrangements for relief. The second plan—the raising additional regiments— would have been free from this objection as to relief; but then it would have been too expensive, from the great cost of staff appointments and regimental allowances. The last plan—the •additional companies —combined the advantages of cheapness with the production of a disposable force ; and lie would shortly describe the detail by which it was to be carried into execution. The army was termed at present of battalions of 3 companies: the strength of each battalion being 576 rank and tile.— It was now intended to add 2 compan i es, so ma ki ng eac h battalion consist of 10 ; and these 10 companies were to be divided into two distinct classes of force. Six companies were to form what would be the service battalion, and these would consist of 86 own each ; the other four companies would be tke battalion of reserve, or of depot, and would amount only to 224 men altogether. Thus, when the regiment was at home, the whole would be considered as one battalion, and quartered together; but when it was ordered on service, only the six strong companies would go abroad ; the other four remaining at home to recruit, and to provide for casualties-- In this way, the garrisons abroad would be made more effec tive than they were at present; because there was necessarily a heavy delay, under the existing system, after any casualty oc curred, before reinforcements could be sent out. Troops had, at present, whatever the emergency, to be raised and disciplined. This occupied a long time; and before one casualty was pro vided for, another had occurred. But the reserve companies would afford a fund, always ready in case of necessity, from which draughts could be made, subject to none of tho delays which hampered as under the existing arrangement. This alte ration would go still farther—it would materially assist the business of relief. At present, when an officer abroad was sent home by a medical certificate, the Commander-in-Chief could only grant him a limited leave of absence, because his duty pressed hard in the mean time on those, who were left be hind him. But, under the proposed system, nothing could be more easy than to station an officer so situated at once with the depot battalion ; and to send out in his place some other indivi dual better able to support the climate or the service. Here would be a great advantage gained to officers, for they would not be compelled, as now, on sudden emergencies, to exchange to half-pay ; anti the soldiers, too, who were invalided from fo reign service, and were now discharged altogether on their arri val in England, might many of them become perfectly effec tive at the depot for home duties, and the training of recruits. Upon the whole, it was his clear opinion that an increase of military establishment upon the principle now proposed, would not only be valuable as assuring as all convenience to the country during peace, but becomes a valuable frame to hang a larger force upon in case of war. He now came to the subject of the Veteran Battalions—a force, which, as he had already intimated, it was intended to disband altogether. It was one of the conditions, as - the House was probably aware, upon which pensions were granted to soldiers, that they should be forth coming, always f or garr i son or veteran b attalions, whenever the Crown thought fit to call upon them. When the veteran batta lions now embodied had been called out in the year 1821, nobody had supposed that the necessity for keeping them together could have been of long continuance. It was now between three and four years that these men had been embodied; and the House would probably think that Government had enter tained a proper feeling upon The subject, when he declared that it was determined to disband them. The doing this was of course to be considered not as a matter of regret, but as an act of grace ; but it was thought right, after so many years of ser vice, to let them retire to their homes, and to enjoy in peace the moderate pensions which the justice and the gratitude of their country had afforded them : should it be found neces sary again to assemble them in arms, the present indulgence granted would not lessen their alacrity to obey the call. The grounds, then, on which the present increase was called for, he had already stated to be the service of the colonies; and he begged distinctly that it might not he supposed, that in seeking such an additio n to its military strength, Govern ment had the least reason to apprehend a breach of those friendly relations which subsisted between England and other powers. It would b e o bvious, indeed, that with any view to war, such an increase as that proposed must be entirely in adequate ; but, at the same time, the house would be aware that the success of this country in war, anti her policy in peace, had given her a commanding influence among the nations of the p w o o s r s l e d s , sed. which; soother'his inau c c o n u e n e tr i ty,waast duty England, l perhaps, the t i aadist well ewvaesr as her policy, to u se f or t h e a dvantage of an influence which she never could maintain, unless foreign powers saw that every part of her dominion was adequately de fended. For these reasons, although he knew that there world be some persons ready to enlist any casual expression which • might fall from him in their service, without the least reference to any danger to be apprehended, but merely in conformity with the principles upon which he thought a government ought to act, trusting that, with reference to those principles, the House would not think the force demanded disproportioned to . the nature of the necessary service, he should move, that a force of not exceedin g 76,161 regul a r t roops, exc l us i ve of fo r ces in India, should be granted for the present year. Colonel DA VIES said, that if he could take the case to be precisely as the Noble Lord had described it, he certainly should refuse to vote the increase of force which was demanded ; but as he believed that there was in our threign relations abund ance to call for such a measure, he found himself reluctantly compelled to give his assent to it. The Hon. Member then adverted to the unnecessary quarrel into which England had been forced with the Burmese. It was clear, from the very dispatches, that the war might have been avoided by the slightest portion of management; and the ground of dispute had been an island, not worth the first charge of powder which would he tired in defence of it. With respect to the troops in our Colo nies, he agreed fully that they ought to be relieved as often as circumstances would admit ; but his complaint was, that the force kept up in those Colonies was needlessly large altogether. The Hon. Member concluded by deprecating the mode in which the proposed increase was to be affected; and insisted that battalions of six companies were not adapted to manoeuvre in the field. Mr.. HOBHOLTSK felt surprised at the Noble Lord's bring ing forward, as a mere matter of course, a proposition of no less importance than that of a ddi ng 15,000 men to our Standing Army. Nevertheless his (Mr. Hobhouse) objection was more to the principle than the details of the proposed measure. The Noble Lord mentioned, it was true, that the state of the garrisons in our Colonies called for this augmentation ; •but the Noble Lord carefully abstained front sp ec if y i ng what Colonies he meant. There were two remarkable points in the King's Speech, deli , vered at the commencement of the present Session of Parlia ment—these were the recommendation of a new penal law for Ireland, and of an augmentation of our standing army. The former measure had been disposed of by that House, but the hat ter ought not to h ave b een i ntroduced, as if it were of no conse quence in a constituti ona l, or even in a financial point of view. Ile wished the Noble Lord had said, the increase of our mili tary force was to pm v id e f or resistance to foreign aggression ; for he could see nothing in our present domestic position that could warrant such augmentation; at the same time lie could con ceive possible danger from the positions of other countries with which he was told we were at peace. The House had a right to inquireof Ministers, why the military occupation of Spain, the dominion of one of our Allies, by the French was permitted; and yet, monstrous and unjust as that transaction was, no Ho nourable Member had yet risen, as he did then, to put that question, and to ask also, were we, or were we not, by our connivance, parties to_ the affair? ,Without proceeding, there fore, to4pe discussion of the Noble Lord's proposition, he should pattse for an answer to those questions which he should put to the Right Honourable Gentleman opposite—who, even in the absence of the Right Honourable the Secretary for Fo reign Affairs, could, no doubt, and they ought to give, the inibrination desired. Ile would therefore repeat his desire to know, how long the military occupation of Spain by France was to continue or be permitted by this country ? and if the present proposed augmentation of our military force was to he the last for which Ministers would apply until the exigencies of war, or at least of impending war, should call for increase ? Sir R. WILSON felt the most constitutional jealousy of any increase of our military force, convinced that a standing army was a dangerous excrescen ce the existence of which was incom patible with th e public safety—still in the immediate measure before the Co mm i ttee he saw no cause for constitutional jealousy. The question resolved itself simply into thin _were the proposed auknentation necessary for the relief of our garri sons abroad ? His own conviction was that that increase was imperiously called for.—(H ear hear !)-11 e had formerly many . inti mate knowled ge o f t h e state of of our foreign Ile had visited one lately, but not the least important of them, ire he meant Gibraltar ; and although he found every thing l t there in the most complete state possible—the comforts of the's() dr attended .to most scrupulously vet nevertheless, he felt him self called upon to d' t h e garrison ec re, t the troops were requisite to its defence and for its inadequate to the discharge of the duties which were . 11 garrisons. Preservation.—( Hear, were similarly it likely, therefore, that our other garrisons that cir cumstanced, he should not hesitate to declare his conviction Lord was abso ute . y the augmentation required bthe Noble y ot enter into necessary...._( Hear, hear, hear I,)—lje would n hear !)—gonceivig lion. Friend's other question, conceiving that that was not the way in which Gentlemen ought to make communications to Parliament respecting hostile discussions or hostile expecta tion ; but he would ask was it posible that the military occu pation of Spain by the French should be allowed to continue? The present state of Portugal also was such as could not be long permitted to exist. In addition, our virtual recognition of the independence of the South American States had created heart-burnings in certain quarters. For all these reasons we were bound to "take a position as would enable us in the event of war to act with promptitude and effect. The British Govern ment, in its anxiety to pursue British interests—to act in con timnity with the wishes of the people, and to ensure the safety of the State and its dependencies, considered the measure pro posed by the Noble Lord necessary —he fully concurred in that view, and should, therefore, give the proposition his warmest support.—(llear Mr. Secretary PEEL observed, that he did not think any ground bad been made out for casting blame upon those lion. Members who were absent from the House upon the present occasion. Having heard the proposition generally front his Right lion. Friend, the common feeling seemed to be that there was nothing unreasonable in the augmentation of the force of the army.--( Hear !)—Therefore it was that those who had upon former occasions taken part in the discussions of the Army Estimates, thought it was not at all necessary for them to come down to the House merely to listen to a discus sion which they did not feel themselves called upon to take part in. If he required any evidence in support of this view of the case, he should refer to the three speeches which they had heard upon the subject. The Honourable and Gallant Member who was the first to advert to his Noble Friend's statement (Colonel Davies), admittted that in the general view which he took of the present state of Europe, in order to maintain the dignity of the country, an increase of the mili tary force was necessary. The Hon. Ilember fur Westmin ster (Mr. Hobhouss) said, that he had no wish to oppose the vote; his only objection arose from constitutional views of the subject. The next lion. Gentleman who had delivered his sen timents, confessed that he felt no constitutional hostility - to the proposal of his Noble Friend. From the only three speeches, therefore, which had been delivered on the question, he felt himself authorised in concluding that the proposition was in all its parts a fair one.—( Hear, hear!)—The proposition itself was founded, as had been stated, upon the necessity of increasing the strength of our garrisons abroad. The Honourable and Gallant Member for Southwark (Sir Robert Wilson), in that honourable and candid manner, which as a military man and a man of honour always distinguished his conduct, had made a statement to them with regard to one of the Bri. tish fortresses which he bed seen. 11 e told them that he had observed the best discipline, and the greatest attention to the comforts ofthe soldiers, but that as a good judge he was bound to state that it was not right to leave that fortress with so few troops. This happened to be the only one of the fortresses he had seen ; and was it not fair to conclude from kis statement that the others were in the same situation ?—(Hear !)—With out the necessity of any reference therefore to foreign politics, on the question of the preservation of peace, there were distinct grounds upon which the proposition ought to be acceded to.— With regard to topics affecting the foreign policy of the country, those had best be deferred till the presence of his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The obliga tions they were all under to the gallant army which maintained their glory and power in die war, ought to induce them to adopt every means of relieving them from fatigue and lingering sick ness in foreign climates during peace.—( H ear, hear!) Mr. CA LCRAFT said, that if the Hon. Members who usually sat on his (the Opposition) side had conceived the public exigencies did not require this augmentation, they would be found at their posts to oppose it. Looking at the si tuation in which we stood, he thought that Government ought to be put in possession of an effectual disposable force, and therefore he f u lly concurrell in the vote, and lie trusted that in supporting it he should not be considered inconsistent with his former votes for diminishing the expenditure of the country.— (Hear !) Mr. BERNAL said, that under all circumstances he did not think himself called upon to oppose the vote. Mr. HUTCHINSON said, that when he considered that our public debt at the present moment amounted to 800 mil lions and upwards, he was not inclined to vote away one shil ling through any confidence in Ministers. He saw no reason for the proposed augmentation of the army. There were no foreign wars to dread, and Ministers did not pretend to say that there was any fear of internal dissensions. If there had been any necessity for an increase of our military establishment, in order to oppose the preposterous pretensions of the Holy Al liance, be far one should not, tinder such circumstances, op pose the vote; but in the present instance he saw no necessity for any such increase ; and he should therefore oppose the reso lution of the Noble Lord. Sir J. HOPE contended, that the new form of the battalions was the most conducive to the interests of the service, and the best calculated for field movements. General GASCOYNE could not agreed with the Gallant General who had spoken last, and contended, that a more effi cient system than the proposed one with regard to the Colonies might have been adopted. Mr. M. FITZGERALD (the Knight of Kerry) could easily acount for the contrary opinions which had been expressed by the two gallant Officers who had preCeded him. Indeed he be lieved that if the opinions of all the General Officers in that House were to be asked upon a point of military detail like that sub mitted by the Noble Lord, no two would be found to agree upon the subject. It might, perhaps,_ appear presumptuous in a Mi litia Officer, such as he (the Knight of Kerry) was, to offer his opinion upon such matters, but he could not help thinking that while the question, as to the expediency of the augmentation, ought to be left to that House, all matters of detail should be left to those official persons who were naturally, from their ex perience, the best judges of their necessity.—( Hear !) Lord PA LMERSTON rose for the purpose of explaining a misconception into which he conceived the Gallant General who spoke last but one had fallen. The Gallant General thought that under the new system the relief by the regiments was to be abandoned, and that an interchange of officers and men would alone take place. There was an advantage, however, in the new system whi c h t h e Gallant Officer had overlooked. He alluded to the additional number of men which would by its means he set free from the Home Service. Sir R. WILSON wished to put a question to the Noble Lord relative to the payment of pensions to wounded officers. It was well known that while the half -pay was paid quarterly, the pen- I sinus for wounds were only paid half-yearly. He thought that the interest of so meritorious a class of officers ought to be taken into consideration, and;that they should be put upon the same footing as other half.pa? officers. Lord PAL3IERSTON said, that he had every disposition to accede to the wishes of the Hon. !Member; but that this part ofat)hmeassutbejreocrt theForces.belonged Paymaster iiit C. LONG said, that if no difficulty was urged against the change in the Pay Office, there would be no hesitation in acceding to it on his part. Mr. J. SMITH concurred most cordially in the observations which had f a ll en f rom hi s Ga ll ant F r i en d (Sir R. Wilson.) The case of wounded officers who had obtained pensions was one of peculiar hardship, particularly that of those who having obtained pensions which they imagined would have been con tinued for life, were afterwards deprived of them. The plea for withholding these pensions was, that the officer had got cured of his wounds, and, therefore, could not claim compen sation. Yet he (Mr. Smith) could not help thinking that where such pensions had been granted under an implied if not express extremecontract that when he compared the harshnesstlia that they in wouldatnp stopping g continued them tn 11 during r u i nt utter e ruinlife, t i l n i e rme many platedcases N M s e a m i ter for Midhurst, with those o s f ue th h e a u d n im fo i r n tu n n ti a n t n e n o t ffi h e i e a r ine w n t e c . ould not have contem obsl:rvrdatiPonAsLofMtlEießHSTon°. which had fallen from other Hon. Members upon the same sub ject, they only convinced him of the diffictilty of pleasing all par ties. Ha had, however, this consolation, thata person who was blamed bropposite parties could not be far from th e r i g h t li ne. (Hear!)-13y onehehad to their interests.formerlybeenaccusAedllolfiteocoomuludelsialyi berality to the wounded officers. He was now blamed for not being sufficiently attentive in answer to these contradictory charges Nva, that he had en deavoured to discharge his public duty to the best of his ability, and if he consulted his private feelings, he should certainly be inclined to lean to the side of those meritorious persons. With reference to the observations of the Hon. Member (Mr. J. Smith) relative to the stoppage of the pensions for wounds in certain cases, he could only say, that it was always understood that as soon as th e wo u n d was healed and the officer was re.! s tored to his flintier health, the pension then necessarily ceased. In no case however did such stoppage take place, until the party had been examined by the Army Medical Board, and a certificate of his restoration to his original health had been ob tained. Mr. TR;;3IAVNE was afraid we were very fast losing sight of the arrangements and regulations of the House in 1821, and permanent establishment n tl f ial l w ar e g w e e a r ta e n fa d s i t ng ap a p r r m ox y i . mating to a After a few observations from Lord PALMERSTON, and in explanation the v ay n fr f o t m h e .31,1 Land n . d J o Forces l S delexcl24uthsivDeeocfelm-nbdeiar,79736:240 17 7 0 0 the following Resolutions : 3 0 1 : 1 : 3 , 3 t . h ia e je N sty oble Lord moved u p t o tthh Officersee 2 2 4 4 tthholl:litaharercchsh Staff, It off ~- - The same service and period for Ireland 185,291 13 0 The Charge orthe Land Forces of Great Britain mhueblic Departments of the Amy inclusive. - .. - • 1,753,411 0 0 The same service for Ireland - 646,243 18 0 i - 1 . F , oofrrr from The same for Ireland _ 24,581 0 0 : 116,470 13 0 rc)r Medicine and officers of that Depa r t me nt £13 , 270 14 0 The same for Ireland - - - 5,188 17 For the Volunteer Service of Great Britain, 1325 128,000 0 0 For the same serv i ce i n I re l an d - - 19,305 12 4 0, For Regiments i n I n di a - . . 783.971 8 ,`1 Recruiting in India - . - 27,338 5 ' - 13,139 9 g For the Royal Military College - Pay of General Officers not being Colonels 1M,522 16 - For Garrisons in England - For the same service in Ireland, - Full Pay for Retired Officers - -- - 1 2 3 59 1', 4 0 89 0 32 1) 0 0 6 111° . Half Pay and Military Allowances - 800,048 2 ;', Foreign Half Pay - - - - 109,710 0 ~v In Pensioners of Chelsea and Kilmainhain 45,972 0 v, Out Pensioners, Chelsea - . - 1,240,913 2 1 ` Royal Military Asylum - - 24,834 14 " • Widows' Pensions - - .. 135,369 16 ° Compassionate Li s t - - • Superannuation Allowances - - - 166,608 13 !), - 44,305 16 " Exchequer Fees appertaining thereto - 33,000 0 ° ORDNANCE ESTIMATES. Sir H. HARDINGE rose to propo se th e O r d nance Esti' mates, and said he should only detain the House by explaining the parts where new charges occurred, and briefly explain the grounds. The observations of the Gallant Member were MO ° during so much confusion in the House that we were unable to follow his explanations. We collected that the salary of the the Clerk of the Ordnance had been increased one half of the difference between the War and Peace Salaries, and that / 115 Royal Highness, the Commander-in-chief, had placed at the disposal of the Master-General a certain number of EnsigncieS in the line to be given to the Cadets. lie concluded by moving the first Resolution, for a grant of 48,9481. for the Saltine! and of the Civil Establishments at the Tower and Pall-Mah• Mr. CA LCR tFT said that the increase in the salary of the Clerk of the Ordnance met with his entire approbation. — From his experience of the duties of the office he knew it Wel not too much. He also thought that the Duke of York had done himself great honour by his kind consideration for the young gentlemen of the Military College. He thought tile whole Estimate as economical as was consistent with the a' tent of the service. The Resolution was then agreed to, and the remaining ones were put and carried' seriatim without observation. The House then resumed, and the Report was ordered. W be received on Monday next. ASSESSED TAXES BILL. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved th e ' committal of this Bill pro forma, in order that it should be printed. He wished to mention one measure of relief which he had omitted on the night of his statement. It referred to inter" nally lighted houses—it was to remove from internal lights the operation of the Window Tax. Mr. CA LCRAFT begged to call the attention of the Righ t Hon. Gentleman to the case of certain poor people in Dorset shire, who kept dairies, and used a horse which was not ex empted from the tax, although their masters, the farmers, Psi none for horses used for a similar purpose. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that if the Hon. Member would give him a note of the case, he would see to its relief. 1110NCK called the attention of the flight Honourabl e Gentleman to the case of persons who were charged with th e tax on a groom, for a ragged boy who occasionally cleaned ti horse or a carriage. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that sue cases were relieved by the Bill. The Bill then went through a Committee, and was ordered to be printed. SiI . HENnY WILSON, Mr. CROSBY, 311. PPLONYN, andall . other Hon. Member, were excused for non-attendance at die callof the House, and the order for their being taken into cos' Cody dicliarged. _ ANNUAL DUTIES. Mr. HERMES gave notice, on behalf of the Chancenot d the Exchequer, th a t h e s h ou ld on M onday move the annu li duties. IRISH JUDIC A TITRE. Mr. GOULBUItN brought in a Bill to facilitate proceeellnr, in the Courts of Justice in Ireland, and another to amend t Grand Jury Presentments Act.—Read a first time. LAND TAX. N. HERMES brought in the Land Tax Assessment Read a first time.—Adjourned to Monday. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. ROUSE OF COMNIOM. Veneris, 4' die 1 825. STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE—ReSOIIItiORS reported That, in the cases of the Hungerford Market and Exete r Road Petitions, the Standing Orders ought not to be dispen with.—Postponed. That, in the case of the Birmingham and Pershore Petition, the parties be permitted to proceed with their 13 10 ' and that, as far as respects so much of the said Road as extead" from Feckenham to the Spetchley turnpike road near Pershot; leave be granted that Notices may be inserted three times td some one newspaper of each of the Counties of NVorcester Warwick, and also affixed to the doors of the Sessions-houg:',t at the next Ea s t er Q uarter-sess i ons of the Peace for the sat Counties ; and that the Committee on the Bill do examine, the first place, how far the said Orders shall have been coo: plied with, and do report the same to the House on the Bee' . of the Bill.—Agreed to. MR. SPEAKER reported the Royal Assent—to Exchequer Dili f (X 20,000,000) Bill, and Transfer of Aids Bill. ROADS—Penwortham—Bill read a third time, and passe d ; Wooler, Banffshire New Cross, W a k e fi e ld an d D en by, sn' Eccleshill and Bradford—Bills read a first time. Brighous s and Bradford, and Bridgenorth—Bills reported, to be OS grossed. Manchester a nd A uster l an d s, Greenwich sn,A Woolwich, Dublin and Dro g h e d a , an d B awtry and sheffier —Bills ordered. Barton B r id ge an d W ors l y, Iluddersfielot Leeds and Whitehall, and Stockton—Bills read a second time, and committed. RAILWAYS—Tees and Weardale—Bill read a second tire' and committed; Petition of Willi am R usse ll, aga i ns t, re c i ferred to the ommittee on the Bill, C ounse l or d ere d ; and several others, in f avour—to l i e on the table. Liverpo°`, and Manchester—Petition from Bury, in favour—to lie 012 the table. Edinburgh and Dalkeith—B3l read a first tir: l ! e ; Birmingham an d Li verpool—Resolution, concerning IP; course of proce e di ng w i t h P et i t i ons relating to compliall'" or non-compliance with the Standing Orders, which Resold' thin was this day reported from the Committee on the Stand" ing Orders, and agreed to by the House, read.—Order yesterday, referring the Petition of Thomas Eyre Lee to 2 Committee, read, anti discharged.—Petition r e fe rre d to the Committee to which the Petition for leave to bring in tr,,„, Birmingham and Li verpoo l R a il way B i ll was referred - on tfw 18th day of February last ; and that such Committee 14 I ' 4 " vived for that purpose. CHAPEL —Hastings —Bill reported, to be ingrossed. INcLosunEs—Stock and Bradley (Wilts)—Bill read a second time, and committed. Fellbrigg, and Weston (Norf olk) Bills read a first time. I MPROVEMENT—Banbury PAVING —.Norwich Bills read a fint tirne" JUDICIAL INQUIRY (Irela nd) COUNTY TREASURERS (Ireland) CORN EXCHANGE—London New cuußCll—Poole }Bills ordered' ARTICLES OF CLERKSHIP ANNUAL CERTIFICATES NATURALIZATION—iIIaubertI ' Bills read a second thrle , APOTHECARIES J and committed. C o c 3PA 0 1 mp N an Y y 7Lz a n i d n o st n_Ar e a fe te r r re — d Counsel orde re d. P to eti l t i i i o of C en Committee e a Waterworks ontheooi: G A s —London and Westminster Oil—Petition of Commissiona l ofP on thievißngillA,Vchoitue ASSESSED 'FAXES—Petition f or th e re p ea l t h ereo f , f rom R o sa' ri c e a l P ered to the Committee sty—to lie on the table. against—referred --t° HOUSE A ND W INDOW T ax —P et i t i ons f or the repeal thereo f, from St. Botolph (Bi s h opsgate), an d Cripplegate Ward lie on the table. COUNTY COURTS BlLL—Petitions from Stockton and Ode! , in favour; and from Society of Northern Agents, against — to lie on the table BANKS—Provincial (Ireland)—Petition from Tipperary, in fa" your—to lie on the table. STAMP Du TlEs — SeveralPetitions, for the repeal of the Da' ties on Fire Insurances—to lie on the table. CANDLE DUTlES—Petition from Dundee, against—to Il e on the table. ATTOIINIES Tax—Petitions from Dunfermline and Fife , against—to lie on the table. QUARANTINE AcT—The following Resolution reported an d agreed to, and Bill ordered :-- "That it is expedient to repeal the Duties imposed by . Act of the 40th o f hi s late Majesty on ships performinl; quarantine." SPIRITS,—ACCOnnt S ordered : " Of the number of gallons of Spirits made from Malt on!! on which the allowance of Is. per gallon has been paid, to gether with the number of bushels of Malt used in making the same, by each Distiller in Scotland, respectively, with the name of each Distiller, from 10th October, 1823, to bth Jan' 1825.—The like Account for Ireland. " Of the number of bushels of Malt upon which each Distiller in Scotland, working from Malt only, has been charged with the Duty of 2s. 6d. per bushel, in consequence of the quantity of Malt used being less than after the rate of one bushel for