The Sun. — London, England, 1842-02-15 00:00:00

.....,,, there would be 615.,, 'without the profit of the merchant. Therefore, with re spect to these lower stuns, you see there shall be a pr wiiiibitory duty of 205., and that w h en corn is 55 5 , t h ere slid 11 be a ditty of 18ss ; instanc es i t a yet in all these ould b, shown that the duty would be pro hibitory. That wh e n t h e price of grain is 555. and 565., —the price at whin , . the Ri g h t H on. Gentleman says it ought to be --when 'that favourite and chosen price is the n i ne ' a lld nobody (sin tell why t h at should be the price— (dear, from the Opposition bench s)--thre would then be probibitory duey on foreign corn; true the Right lion. Ysentleinan sa.ye, and he says mosVtruly, " I think 20s. 13 Ulric Stlfficikllt ;" and -no (lout-eshe is perfectly right. --(xl ear, hear.) I think those duties of 455. and 475., as weliad ()ne 'when corn was 39se, are odious, ..rid ought • not te be endured. I agree with the Right Hon. Gen ti9la , and I think that in 1828, if they said 28s. ai wea exclude foreign corn, we don't want e door stronger than to keern' the corn out .the door he 11s)slf strong enough, we have no occasion to put on iron plates and locks ; therefore, we will be satisfied 11 ' 11 0 ( .2) , st i_ ditty of 20s !—( ',fear. hear.) But I must and do question et. that e.e have arri ve d a t a period in this whe n we have a greater claim than what is entertained inothiteeiplahniPhr:Tosed by th Riht Hon. Gentleman up; though it make' the old system aes rather less o Sinus to the . country, in reality is nothing.e 'hilt a mock ery.—(llear.) I have mentioned the pr v ic e.. of corn at 'Oantzie and Odesa, and if' we reckon the a r aft' price ' o f corn at 455., the duty of 20s. raises it to ‘,'s therefore with respect to all foreign countries,... lin• t • that' • - e 2n s is prohibitory , , tun ain this duty 0. - ' it is not possible for me to say, though to to ascertain it, at what price a diity l ceases e to be prohibitory. As the price increases, and the mer chant gets a better rice, the daty think, according to P the stetement I ha • falls. have made, should that it could be imported at the present price, browthe phrotfits -.' which is fis but g from Duane will 4 . .it appears to me that cer th n .• be 6s. 6d., which, with , • v•eseat Price of o r f eq e u o ir r e n s : could hardly be sold s at_ the namely, sixty-one shillings. Sir, 10 this point you have a prohibitory duty. ss-;r' all treed not say that a prohibitory duty strikes - ati 'the principles of trade. Ido not mean to - Poi every trade . of the country, but at all the a ll ,„ rin e.iPles of trade. It is this that has caused 1 0 - „ nu leh mischief in the Corn-laWs as they at je r t.- p "rat stand. The merchant buys an article in In;eziingeountries, it may be at an advantageous r ` e e or not according to the market ; hut after great expense, after making himself liable 't('' a .FloalirgOtryS:l4: of money in order to bring articles ttrh(itsn foreign countries, he finds, on bringing them . to the Thu, li,.hthe sliding sePraoiheibitory duty staring him •la ler - -s i • ae s offe r rig an insuperablnobsta,cle to his trade •J •ir s ' ' s " -T edi melat thro wn i n i ts way . ,—(elear, hear.) mot' orsom„ 11 1i as been the consequence durieg the last year in its nature inimical to trade. pthi le eitsne.ero.ttiht .ere.sbe:uties; it is stated Very well in two parn .7 arid the I ten on this subject, the one by Mr. Hubbard, that th 7,a,4st __ na .l \ 3 l ,, r• 1 G r t e h g ifi c in 'one theit ie m s h hot o vn f J th u a l3 t , , , quart er, e e,yee of Dantzie wheat- was 48s. a f burg! t'A j an " Yea might have obtained it out o • th e s t il e s ,.' ° A r 6. a quarter. It was not admitted on still it ryas not "`"7, l lst ; when corn had risen to 60s. li • 1.-1-I°t admitted; the speCulator had reason to be e:g'ienntat hocould obtain ab . etter price for it. In the the tim e -g September, only two months after us , itvhen it might have been sold at ,addition 1 was sold for 70s. ; thus, b e i ng •an Iv a of 225. per quarter.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) 3 that It benefit to the English farmer---(Loud cheers) -lh ----er .i•as it a benefit to the landowners of this country? eers) N O , it was given to the foreign speculators : r at °iders °E corn, thus benefiting them alone, with cheer liners benefit whatever to • the consumer.—(Loud .wi th •s) The corn was admitted at an enormous price lle °Gut an lie benefit to the revenue or to the consumer. Thai l a -- e r e e g s tates, but I think it is an over calculation Th e h - "as made, but he states that the money paid to tiles, elders of corn, and to the growers in foreign coun that. was not less than 6,000,000/ As I said, I think a 18 over the sum, but I should think not less than order 4,000,0001. 4,000,0001 have necessarily been paid in P to z ''' , 94o ti d c obtain the. benefits of thi s s lidi ng - sca l e . si:te heers.) It was a tribute paid to the sliding , but a loss to the country.—(Loud cheers.) ''hi m ! h ave another statement which I received to-day, at snows another evil of the sliding scale. You say Th e lPn will take the duty according to those averages. Elie ° gilt lion. Baronet did not say how he would settle shal t i t . vra ges• He said they shall not be altered, they N ue' taken much in the same way as heretofore. Now ,„, /Ab e : `u.se the averages as you may,. there is one effect ur ien. they do not tell the quality of the corn.—(Hear.) e et , al :4 the present year, as has happened in one of the ve ry t Years, a great portion of the corn l was 'lltain ts tn ,, ueh damaged ; some persons, -.of tb ---s with agriculture, say not less tha " n 'el a fihftash , h e ,,, e whole crop of England. The consequence - a pole lno ket „ . 3' great lowering of the price of corn in the (te am • , But do the dets`-t ''''-(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Y people get their br o e u ad ha a l t e all a 4 110 1 V instead of some l ow er sue t , b of 265. perhaps 1 „ ) ,!t th a ee t a ,tse it has come to th i a s t n d o e t gr e e h e e o a f pn c e li s e a ap to ne t s h % `"nste n uegree of cheapness . w hen e t of bread, because he , is paying ' ll "i ti l i til( ' average was ' much higher. Now a a g a e m nt u l e e ll inan as tieenai.s pwritten on this subject says, tha t t h i e n a t r h e e ra b; e - Kt eiVllB4l, in the month of January, kiet! - w llat, was 61s. 2d., that in Jan., 18 , 12, the av t e h r e a r g e e: u re, W4S also 61s. 2d. You would, _ avei.an. su PPose * the price being the same, same, ths t ' being the same, the duties being the 6e • c arne the people could obtain their bread a I . 'the n i ,,,.• l)t iee. Is that the case ? far from it. 744: - YZe .of the best town made flour at Mark ''S's,Z,'" the first four months of 1841, . was 4 44 a'aell,, and in 1842 it was 61s. a sack, making a ' k1 (!lt. e i e : el no less than 6s. in the sack of flour—in that b latie ° ' ilr, from which the bread is admitted to be 11,1:°:sfWallfetri,:ltt--11e t ti h v a e t r i a s ges and the duty which you impose th at i hot altered a single shilling.—(Hear, hear.) ' Now efal. - e - ra even if ye a w d e e r f e ect to , wheiheahnygroeu your r d not get /tore than twenty times, and to introduce 150 rs towns ter e„„ s a a are now proposed to be introduced..—( Atugh re ehergin'",the Opposition.) It is a fault by which you a . by which you a t ., 4 . 10. r? the people with improper duty, high pi-4,, fu `"^F . the poor labourer of this country pay a . 'i,:forci, r 1118 corn I , h . Se s emi . , and at the same time s. are excluding : 'QI) i s is rotnth iscountry—(Hear). ir,anotherdefect Is th at - !..sewisel inher.ent you are e( ' r equire Whichenebl foreign corn at p in this particular times, when hoar aee, °te obtain it by that exchange of articles vest r two o • are • ) that 1 three years. You then find, The f " 4aPahies ular trade. Youhave a i te r r oh h i a b r i : l'i ' s" e oore a l lat ,ge, supply will be required. price aa n „ 22s u , 1 ," 1 ,Y"---as I have shown you the price ris te - a " ,t Y Iniiii,"a" th e cours e of two months. You have l 'gni er lM '? .) t° PaY, and you have no means of meeting nt• at N A Y sending out goods. You have not art , I , You e• y . Ahe h r 1it.,,, t . ott are obliged to send out p rn cent ' . e - i' t , lll ( . ' - of bullion to • pay for that . co_ ... ' Plac e a ''' it s "f. zalgland naturally and hies-twisty R ate (il,lliist t i h ssi 's ; and that contraction takes -- mbar . , "bole commercial world is in a to their -3tat tlent—(flear, hear)—when. your n ,. i eit aetisan,4te unable to give employment ne-itjureased pri ces when when those artisans are pay tteeft) Ilubs!rn°- do'-tisbt, he seasons in which corn will be for the articles of sustenance. or a per fiZtutvilinki';o% can at at others. I admit that ; and Ido a ssert, -Stea dY pri lav e a regular low price, eue i sa „ s tner e are " that, if ; ce, at all. But this Ido say—this Ido to i Jor such difficulties placed lf i",, . such' steadiness of price, you have by you 1 1 . 41 „e station ~,,; . i . a l by nature in r led - , difficulties.—(Cheers NM I ""es(),PPesitioti) those ' tie,. ernoarrassineni Iti d °9 m difficul (Ns, (Rear, h ear.) ' i . piled difficulties up( have heaped , embarrassment Lit et . of your I(gisl atio steadiness of price should be the ui. With a prohibition : e l U ; I wish_(tO free admis 4"...neat. anothers'Hear, , a e it. , t think, however, ) 011 1, d that is tonta.llayncompati heaerrmTenhte, d n a with respect to s naot • sa x a few . words upon that subject. le is ill • , e, put it as a il 40htat while there are now very serious frauds, there with the Right Hon. Gent Ime aa „, also. be very serious frauds under his scheme ; 'if th„"l',Y instance to be ac - c - o' mpanied with a lowering you may, the raising of the price .ce4sat.lilittv, and to the extent of the reduction you , ne .1,;10,113:,11,°1-d out a temptation to fraud. In the . year - L Rtti efi "nit, a Committee of this House sat, and ins es_ 'me t , - and exposed a great number of frauds that had kthri.,e4ittilittecl with respect to the averages, and ' e tl W 1 e ll e" lat they considered a remed tOr thosefrauds.. torious—you the n --s, however, in the last year—you had, in the years h (118 3 , f d . existiles whit-h were no . l of 0b a144411 markets raised 9s. 'a quarter in a sing a week. ~,,..•••tain i a 4 : : l'o , r the purpose, and with the contrivance,. ...,,!Vst e ,; l ' ' reduction of the . duty.. < fr o d et legislation which gives encouragement to That at least is a bad . •ika: l e ' and g a mblingspeculations, while you ought to le ' '' . at ' honest and nholesome trade. I have stated ''''''•if i, l e 4f the effects of a sliding scale, but really eav erh re to state all the effects of such a scale, I would !,• t era, - " lt ch More to add. But there is another and most ‘ ). "'''lle -113 before of the sliding scale which I have touched 4 W -11 b efore, ....j- , u l ti c ' h tl it ti v t r i es i e namely, that it Confines your supplies in . the North of Europe.—(Hear,.. hear.) 'AM a . e a deficient harvest, a scarcity in this country, Arid 4 1 ein prices —you then send immediately orders I '''its•st e I P s. s . to Dantzic, and to all the ports which cominu (ktle 4 with us in the Baltic, for cargoes of wheat, in tial li ' '4) take advantage of the low duty. That ''ith e° ,n'es in and you are to remain satisfied ‘ li ii t , la titat p;iv. But, suppose any merchant '''' 11 4; s aY u- " 'the prices of corn from the tle lltt.t are too high. I 'know there is a or British goods in North America l :`, -m t that if their corn could be sent here in exchange h tl"ti Iv Roods I could dispose of it, and that the transtic 'Ut if ° ,'!lti be profitable in both ways. --(Hear, hear.) ;hey h at . were N!ere to send an order to America, the duty 411(1t0‘e risen by the time that, the cargo as arri . ved, Pri ee ro your prohibitions stand in his way; then 3 otir wili As t iaY have fallen, your duty may be high, and he 4, 4 t!'.U, that for two or three years that cargo is left 1/ 4;114 hands,and he is a loser by the a hole transaction. Per in i t a defect must that be in the law, which does not 11 hi e el° 1 1 to go at all to the most favourable market, Yeer suppl y ot permit you to go to the United States for oer eel ?(11ear, hear.) Indeed, with respect to at)t hir)nneree with foreign nations, there seems to be to r e 4 snore desirable than that we should endeavour I s e to l ,l, and to inaproe`e our trade with America ; and t /Ittri c i ) .. Nty to You, most emphatically, " Preserve the , Gr eat 's or the United States, and of the Brazils.' iiatiortantities of goods manufactured by us have been Ni es f_ 1 . to these countries. By adopting common tei a ' 'ott by edltering to common sense, you would re -I,aarhetois.prove, and enlarge almost indefinitely, those r ---(Hear, hear, and cheers.) But no, you say ' th s Ca 1,,,. P. p r esent laws won't do, we must alter them, and ,: 4 ri(ly contrivance, by which we may shut the thel against 11,,. United States, and refuse to admit tloll.',Pr.oduce to our market*. ' I have here a statement iienrtotin'eal c•--11.tiaaoneimtapkoTtiaefrteanxtri‘acirt.--o. Baneti htienegxhtaemn'tsauwdomrkeaousn n of the State of INew York alone, as regards I conceive, of of by a Government, dent for Government. pl.—(Cries of " Hear ry, however I truly ;ence of the House in,. ▪ in this early Slage, t o state as b rie f ly which should. guide I do so, because-sir with the prinetrl;?ii r. - ,f the CrOwe, tkert• iintirely difftir froor T ed that with t o everything eV.' egislating at all-apon e neral principle with the producer or the b r ing to ill arket .that and immetliate poe t side, g,,,s ~) „,„,,,et is most in need( the (pest in their pric° m the subject. 11 ;ter judges t h a n th e The convoljti cities, choose '11"del:i eY stand in Pee .r!liase them, and those producers t hem selfes they shall produce. ;hall bring their pre allY acknowledged It' !Rent principles, it 5 No a toil, t ther,,,,,re ?•gard to the grEbrttai: e t e,t to Corn IT' Pl,i c h, ornitationg o n 1 , - . - - , r a to rve- with i. , ,ft says, you have n"5. n foreign counlrrlei ✓ a large ge.11:11;- would go lirilleiC,,or th regard to a n t t II ow—as 'I d o n o Me ll o what taxation if:ii(„ inner and rhog' hoc tax, it is ifilsitt illws4 ',et. ;hit° the m al' heg, 7o tects the i ncrel p mother principle oe •111 Smith, as the g ot e would read it lo (0 d the extract. I°ol irer had beenproelecer, grea t number J Vo l e rudence whether or 'd the manufilettie that it' it isr o ps so with caution, 5 c f oyed in it . out (At, then proce e ded atr . [own by a high Ae . iction could be nn'tbe 311 is unwise, 1 1 " ° t he as been to . elle i' f tofi v ' ' employment 0- t t i l e to proteftioo. bait excess of tO'' t i f; 0 much of prole oil ) hearts. If it ' 11 , 41 ° 55• [ he found, ins is!', ir e , there are t ing e i be I think they sa t , be proved that %ett enetpurageoent,go wil mild likewise bs ? ' ',. tbe nent in proposit'jjo ft• wider range ; 0; ' ; they laid doe'lletto eh principle w as o_ 4 „, itry on a former u`c,,,, independen of forp, the principle. Irir -that is the falle!, ! Right Hon. fall event, by prohibfr f eli i, into this cot s ,b e e f ropoSition may be tered State--altllgd cannot conceirosl g r e at connlic.-.`;bo desirable, in , yd in in Practice ? , ~.• t o. Nit') respect t° Q a t iP/ the other ii i,g 3 if t t e r 01 1 portation of 4, 00 that the people °oil) I countries for opi cd I) respect to the o);40, people engagedil!,,44 c supply of til? on from Aro ericitt ,P [ li, there won't'. •vot, wived of e mp l6 4 C 1 ur People if Y 0 .1 14 o r nt upon people, cannot but 004 ear)--so thotoie to You have 1 11 . i lls , foreign coutitr!te 110 t necessarily f,,,°,i,c,oie Report of the t'f..;:lii o luence is, lbs-iitAt .tire country ,bfirth A .ntrieS, ft if ' ° the .f, ° ~. lilt,. sto p-roatiCe 1•0' se of all the pet nevitableConsr4, h av e the agriefigl 1821.—(Hear,P", .cultural dist& i, King, in repok, P ar liament :A r t ", hese were the I, there , was n0,,000 r, hear.) Ancl,oo this glut th ere t o is restricted 1,,,,,f. ;0 that in t telo% et 1) 'e the quavtlieeefl you ' are ',,f tV ins the object of that constant siroe' [ear.) The 0111/,;511e`l the lavv to be i l` r i r ,4 ' war with '°,,clio ne of a war tboometr, ;t Napoleon.--oarigied that war, o : ) ;etiVi, 1 one single ,Ntsov: fly diminishen 1 wafer tt time this l, sere being no,lfirl' is re It it. people were th ttions. But ra r e . 0 il 0 t you wi .4, lid with ? : 4 . "i 4711, tt resting ).- -0 1, 'acture, the ' t V t it would litid'i rided.--(gettr, seaf it e very reverflit; 'e•—(Cheers.) fir,lt; aken from t ile , ol' lc f , endeavour a 5 of ;,' pi oduetions, vorr,, to have anYorecitit Parts of ',',00, n in that O er P r,: ce i we have de as this catinotre'te; ,aeons w ere ter , words, tlic, t ire , to maiataill co, when the'' e id o' 4 ens, .0 srott _,,,,. s il O 4r in we woe]) orroo, )ers from th u e o 5 0191 .vent upon t"s't Eta'' r such as th'' o f tr r i e the supplie4l,oo,,,j 'ernedy eotli'eorif„f ild not 1)0,1.500.'0)1 lone, brit ' 11 ,,, 1 0 01( s, awl iii t',"l of oie be supplie-t to o i i„ intiacel'ofer or ountry a l l 0 4' (7 ; xtended n" L ein' lig us thatlsk.o.,tlie n neecl.---( 40),ite, a to the .11-'lPitte,"4.oo mi. Baronet ~,t r t i l e tale, and:t 111001_,Itti mud cheers objc, it leers.) 1,1'014. A l' • objection "litl's',l.'ittl4 ty, I sllol,o(%Aiatef (Ileac,. es.C,, scale n ot 15. , 11%,,g or 25., or f 0 r. ,l ,7" a ty , 1. speakl9,od.,l,lo 1 ii, proliiiii„, ? "J I sed nicakilieio•24, wheat' ~,,t; to t i''. a prolniv.",b ee74,0 Japers Ivll4'l4Al 001e4.0 Ise has whi 3,444 .-) papers ,otiee ;0 ht 1100-i' o atl ° t i e of 'frat`e'co 1/00 WiliCh S':,:ot,ll' 4, ft ? It Nortil ° ado? je pret;isoo; p oi f o f' had ti l t' sly '!'eci ,rsons,,orryti le Glecntlsnial,'l(;,4l .•.,„. c ol ~i, Bch, Igo 1,,,r,6 r „,, , i 6entielliti itlettooo,l4, Leyfloe. C-ci it, ~. surrrise _ 0 i. -as il'erelYo° f th%e Jl i - r 4;: i l it i fi t. aria chce . be 1 liant%ic I...s_iit, i. nust neecs‘'l-1„100 a details' the o into Jae ,' t o ic , 1. to be , than t%,,e,, L i price 0 0„,„,0 :0 , c oot -0p !, .. ,, 6 ,, 6 755, 1,, price of„ niot -(lle3l9:Coit'Pe I bengrte in ,theism .trill a the pric _Act • We mss tt " o°' tie (3 titt less tlo° i Ithe growth of wh ea t, an d w hi c h I s h a ll take the liberty of reading, to the House.—(The Nobk Lord read the ex tract in a low voice ; but the substance of the quotation . was, that this fertile territory extended from the Lakes in the mirth to Ohio in the south, embracing an area of 280,000 square miles, being twice as large as the king dom of France, and six times the size of England. It contained 188,000,000 acres of land, and was irri gated by. or branching on the Ohio, the Wisconsin, and the Mississippi. Within 21 years its popula tion had increased to the number of 3,000,000,• and it was calculated that by the year 1850 it would have swelled to the agregate of 6.000,000). Now, proceeded the Noble Lord, this groat population, this vast extent of fertile and arable land is removed from this country to such a distance, that on the authority of Mr. Curtis wheat could not be exported from those districts to our ports for less than from 435. to 475. a quarter ; 'so that the American could not be considered a competitor by the English farmer, at least while there would be no just grounds to regard the American farmer as such, the people of that country would be great con sumers of your manufactures.—(llear, hear.) Ido be lieve that 6,000,000 of people inhabiting so fertile a country would naturally prefer .the pursuit of agricul ture to manufactures.—(Cheers.) . I believe that they would he glad to receive your manufactures in exchange for their food and exports—(Cheers)—for however the manufacturers of the United States may be advancing, they cannot yet gi ve th e b u lk o f t h e peop l e sufficient occupation, and it is probable that they will not do so for a long time.—(Hear.) You have it in your power to establish a commerce of an extensive and useful kind—of giving food to the peo ple and employment to the poor and in future years of enabling them to avoid that horrible distress which lute prevailed of late—of bestowing comfort on the inhabitants of this kingdom while they consume the products of dis tant countries.—(Hear, hear.) But., instead of this, you say " We. have the power of legislation in our hands, and we will use it to stop this great trade.— (Hear, bear.) We have the power in our hands to stop this accumulation of human comfort and prospe rity, and because we have the power, we undertake to place a barrier against it."—(Loud cheers.) Sir, such woul 1 be the effect of your continuance of the sliding scale,—(Loud cheers.) Your commerce with America in wheat and wheat-flour will be diminished ; it will not be wholly stopped, but it will be greatly diminished by the uncertainty of which I • speak.— (Cheers.) Is it likely that merchants, 'with the fear of that uncertainty before their eyes, will enter into those speculations in corn ? They considered it a gambling and speculating trade which it was better he should not enter into. lam glad to find, however, that the Right Hon. Baronet hesitates wheth er he shall finally adopt putting a new obstacle on the importation . of corn, not by a sliding scale, but by a fixed duty on the flour, which would naturally come to this country from the Western States by the canals and the St. Lawrence. I trust the Right Hon. Gent., having hesitated at all will give up that pert of his scheme; but even without that obstacle, is it not mon strous that, legislating with regard to the corn trade, and, .indeed, legislating with respect .to all other articles, you should say that the inhabitants of the Black Sea and America should not be as free to send their products here as to any other part of the world?— (Cheers.) But the situation of America does not accord with the objection which the Right Hon. Bart. has urged as to the narrow circle from which you can expect corn, those countries which have the same latitude and climate with our own.—(Hear, hear.) That country is fit for the production of corn, between the 36th end 43d de grees of north latitude. The objection was, that they could not avoid dearness in certain years, either by a fixed duty or by any other fixed plan. We have a right, Sir, to reject the plan at pre sent proposed for one more consonant with the maxims of trade—more consonant with the de ductions of science —and, above all, more conso nant with the petitions of . our suffering poPulation. —(Loud cheers.) We have a right to do this, and the produce of the world will thus be opened to us, and we need not fear either such frequent occurrence of periods of scarcity or the interruptions of trade, or making the dependence of this coun try on • others an object of anxiety.(Hear, hear.) If with with the universality of our commerce, we have to protect our national interests, our formi dable navy—and our navy will always be formidable— for the independence of our country y we need not entertain the slightest apprehension.—(Cheers.) Opposed then, as I am, Sir, to the plan of a sliding scale, and thinking that any plan founded on that basis ought to be re jected, I shall, if that plan be also presented, be ready to discuss the subject with those who oppose the laying on of any duty at all. I think that a moderate fixed duty might be proposed with propriety; but what I propose, in the present instance, is the rejection of the plan proposed by her Majesty's Ministers.—(Hear, hear.) If it should be found that there are no ex clusive burdens on agriculture—(Hear)—l should then say, make such a provision of a duty, as shall prevent a sudden change, and prevent the falling into distress of great masses of agricultural labour. But if there should be, as I believe there are, peculiar burdens on agriculture. then impose a duty as moderate as you possibly can, in consideration of those burdens. Do not let us raise it a single shilling—not a single farthing . above what is absolutely necessary. If there is, as the Right Hon: Gentleman states that there is,..an advantage in submitting ,to restrictions for the sake of 'the general interest, this argument, to be unconquerable, must be supported by good and sensible reasons.— (Hear, hear.) Now, Sir, for a fixed duty we have, for a sliding-scale it is not possible to have, such reasons. It must be said in favour of a fixed duty that it has been recommended at different times by persons of great authority.—(Bear, hear.) The first recommendation is from Mr. Malthus,. who in 1815 proposed, after a certain time that the duty shOuld become fixed , at 10s. His proposal for a duty on foreign corn was that it should be first 20s. and fall is.. year by year, till it came to 10s., where it should remain. Mr. Maculloch, another advocate for a fixed duty, stated that, instead of the burdens of agriculture being equi valent. to a fixed duty of' los., that a ditty of ss. would be a full protection.--(Hear.) The Committee of 1821, which comprised many persons eminent in agri cultere, among others, the Hon. Gentleman the Pay 'master of the Forces, Sir T: Gooehe and many persons of all classee and all opinions, also recommended a fixed duty. Sir ROBERT PEEL expressed his dissent. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Does the Right _Honour able*Gentleman dispute that ? The Report begins by expressing a doubt whether there can be any solid foundation for agricultural prosperity except by abstaining as far as possible from legislative interference with agriculture, either by protection or prohibition of importation.—(Loud cheers.) The report then goes on to state that agriculture had flourished most when a free importation of corn had been allowed.—(The Noble Lord proceeded to read various extraetslfrom the Report of the Committee alluded to ; from which it appeared that the Committee recommended a modification of the existing law, which produced much inconvenience from the sudden manner in which the ports were opened under its enactments, and the consequent sudden influx of corn into the market, and suggested a remedy that, whenever the ports were open, corn should be admitted at a fixed duty. The reading of this extract was followed by loud cheering and counter cheering.) Permit me to observe, that although the Committee recommends a fixed duty, I cannot but think that the person who drew up the Report, and who so well explained and understood the principles of free trade, and so anxiously advised an adoption of those principles, must i have, when ' he recommended it, considered the best probablyadoption o f a fixed I d i t h i tey could:ts aas the hear)—but must have looked forward to the tt ttmate toebnitapion'afft)illie'etaismlier—sle, (Hear,. adoption of the great principle which he had so distinctly laid down in the commencement of the Report, and have considered that the time would at length arrive when all protection and all prohibition should cease.—(Cheers.) Mr. Huskisson was a party to the Bill of 1627. He was likewise a party to the Bill of 1828 ; but in 1830, in the last speech which he ever made on the subject in this House, he stated, that he doubted whether it could be pos sible, with our present system of taxation, to keep up our present system of Corn-laws.— ( Isoud cheers.) Mr. Huskisson was a man who thoroughly understood the principles of trade. He always advocated the principles of free trade, and always endeavoured to carry them out, as far as he thought he prudently could do so. One of the objections to a plan of a fixed duty is, that it would in times of scarcity prevent an adequate supply front coming into the market. When 1 had the honour to propose a plan for a fixed duty to the House, I stated my belief that the imposition of a fixed duty would in a great measure prevent the occurrence of scarcity by securing a constant and regular supply; but, at the same tune, I stated there might be various methods of preventing a fixed duty acting in such a manner in times of scarcity, and one of the remedies was to give to the Government the power of opening the ports under certain circumstances. I think that may be better than the view taken by the CoMmittee of 1821. It may, perhaps, be better that at a certain point, 735. or 745., there should be no duty.— (Great cheering from the Ministerial side of the House.) I say that is matter for consideration. I proposed before that in case of scarcity there should be a discretionary power allowed to the Crown, and I now say, as' an alternative, that it should be considered whether in the case of high prices, the duty should not cease.— (Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman stated the other night, that it would be necessary for the pur pose of the Tithe 'Commutation Act, that the system of averages should he kept up.—(Loud cheers.) But what he stated more particularly was, that if you had corn very cheap there would be such abund ance from foreign countries, that then the English agriculturists would be ruined by the competition ; and he stated if you have corn very dear, then the keeping up of a fixed duty would he an evil and a grievance. With respect to the former of these objections, I- think the protection to the farmer is the cheapnessL--(Cheers) of the abundant year. If you choose tb take any year since 1831, you will find that there has never been a less p r i ce than 365., and with the cost of freight andimportation, at th e most statement, that was the lo west price at which the English farmer sold in 1831. Th en with a greater advantage iv 1,.a s impression respect to dear years, I am merchant than to the English ready, and always was ready given by would b to say, although I . think must consider theit to the foreign originally 1 made agriculturist—yet ori ti e public sv - e duty when n e Z; 11 the or Parliament. I and must relax the authority of the Executive proposed co : done by the Executive. important is, that you should have That which is really you should never have duties that would shut out corn; if you must have a duty let it be istant to be It might- produce some evil as easy as possible. no evil like that which is attached t s os but there is the plan proposed by the Government. There is another ject upon which I stave not fala.rdt a of the sub word and which the . Right honourable Gentleman' TUE SUN, -LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, EBRLTAR Y 1.5, 1842. dismissed at the commencement of the address to the House—l mean the distress that prevails in the country. That that distress exists to a great extent—that it exists in Leeds, Manchester, a great part of the cotton district, and part of Scotland, is now by no person denied. It was stated in the strongest terms by the Hon. Gentleman who seconded the Address (Mr. Beckett). The Right lion. Baronet states that he does not propose his present Corn Bill as any remedy for that distress—(Hear, hear) —nor does he think the Corn-laws, as they at present ex ist, are at all answerable for that distress. Now, Sir, I should not say they were the cause of the whole of this distress, but they tend very considerably to aggravate it ; and I think that a great relaxation or your Corn laws would tend greatly, though not, perhaps, im mediately, to mitigate that distress.—(Hear, hear.) What is it has been said by persons conversant with the cotton trade in Manchester, in a circular which they addressed to the wholesale houses in London,—that while the sale of cotton exported, profitably or not, bas increased during the ltrit year, the sale of these goods for domestic uses had decreased at the rate of 3,000 bales per week. They therefore conclude—and the con clusion is a natural one, and borne out by all the other evidence on the subject—that the want of means in the labouring classes to purchase clothing and other articles as well as food, has been the cause of the di minished consumption—that a much greater part of the earnings of the labouring classes than hitherto have during the last two or three years gone to the pur chase of bread. Now, this statement is supported by . all those who have communicated with the labouring portions of the community, and by their own statements in various parts of the coun try. I myself presented a petition to-night, which stated that the petitioners, though sometimes able to procure some bread, were unable to consume sugar at nil ; and, with respect to other articles, that the coa sumption of them was greatly diminished. Well, then, if you had a free admission of foreign corn, one of the consequences would be that the numerous classes able to purchase food at a cheaper rate would be enabled to consume manufactures ; and an other consequence would be that the manufacturers would find a better market for their goods, and that they would send these goods in exchange for the goods sent to this country. Therefore, whilst I do not say that the whole of the distress" is caused by the Corn-laws, or would be totally removed by the repeal of those laws, Ido say that they tend to aggravate the distress, and that you would mitigate that distress by a relaxation of those laws.—(Hear, and cheers.) The Right lion. Gentleman supposes us to be in a posi tion similar to what has occurred at other times in manufacturing districts when distress was, as he thinks, occasioned partly by over-production, and partly by other causes. The Right Hon. Gentle man supposes that over-production, the operation of joint-stock banks, and some other causes, contributed in different degrees, and that all the remedy is in the reduction of the excess, and . a return to the former state of things, and the former amount of pro duction. Now that is not the view which I take of the present state of things. Although it may be that the production of goods, has been somewhat in excess, yet if that had been the cause of the distress, the distress would have passed away, and the evil woulcthave cured itself.—Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet thinks that part of the evil is in the excessive building of houses in the manufacturing towns, and the conse quent increase of the population ; and that another part is in the improvement of machinery. Sir, I cannot say whether the first may be in some part a cause of dis tress ; but I say that with regard to machinery, the whole history of our manufactures directly contradicts his opinion. —(Hear.) Wherever improvements have taken place in machinery, and means have been formed of lessening the amount of human labour necessary tO produce an article, new markets have been created or increased—(Hear, hear)—and thus the whole number of persons employed has been increased at the. same time and not diminished.— (Hear, hear.) And what is the case of those great towns, such as Manchester, Leeds, Mac clesfield, and Brmingham ?—(Hear, hear.) They have increased year after year, as the ingenuity of our cduntrymen from time to time adds improvement to machinery. (Hear, hear, hear.) If the im provement of machinery decreased employment, the case would have been the other way, and population would have decreased in those towns.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL made some observations which were not heard in the gallery. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I certainly did think the Right Hon. Baronet gave in, in some degree, to the opinion that machinery decreases employment. It is an opinion which has been stated by several who support his views of this question, and I think it is very dangerous.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") I thought that he mentioned the improvement of machinery as amongst the causes of the distress. But I believe that machinery would increase still more, and go on- increasing, if you did but en courage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions. A great portion of the people think that some relief may be obtained by repealing those laws. If you cannot re peal them totally, as the great majority of the petitioners to this House against the Corn-laws deMand, I do advise you to make some material advance—(Hear, • hear)—and show, that you are willing to meet their wishes, as far as is consistent with other interests.—(Hear, hear.) I advise you to make some material advance that will show you have sympathy with the sufferings of the people.—(llear, hear.) But the present proposition does nothing. It merely removes, as is said, nominal high duties, which can never be levied, and only excite unnecessary odium. Sir, I agree to that description, I think it is made appli cable to the measure of the Government. I agree, Sir, that it is perfectly impossible to hope that any. good, or that any alleviation whatever of the general distress which prevails in the country can arise from that measure, which is only made to look a little better. than the old measure—(Cheers)—a measure which erpetuates the vicious principles alre a dy existing—f or bid s any improve ment —encourages speculation—and prevents your com merce with the north of Europe—the Black Sea and the United States. Such a measure, Sir, will do no thin to relieve the distress of this country.—(Hear.) and I say that that description is strictly applicable to the measure proposed by the Government. Whatever you do, I advise you not to agree to such a measure as that. If you think that the Corn-laws are founded on sound principles—that they tend to promote the interests of the country, do not mind the sinister evils they may cause • but if you do m a k e a c h ange, d o so f or some pur pose; not innovate w ith out you i nnovate f or some good. —(Cheers.) Lord Bacon said that the froward retention of custom was sometimes as bad as innovation--:-but Lord Bacon never dreamed that there might be a measure of this kind proposed—a measure which would have all the evils of " froward retention of custom," and yet contain within it all the mischiefs or evils of innovation.—(Hear, hear.) A measure which does not improve your commerce ; and, therefore, cannot alleviate the existing state of distress—a measure which confines your trade, and which was proposed by the Government, having first excited hopes for a long period —hopes which when apparently on the point of being attained, a measure is proposed in reality standing upon the very same principles and producing similar results as those of the pre sent law.—( Hear, hear.) • • Such a measure, Sir, I consider is that now proposed. I cannot think. you will legislate on this question to any purpose, unless you in the first place reject the measure now pro posed.—(Hear, hear, and loud ch eers .) If you reject that, you may hereafter consider to what extent you may set free your trade in matters of food, you may hereafter consider how far you will concede to the wishes of the people—it will be open to you to take every view that may be proposed to you to consider. You may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity of land brought into cultivation. You may also con shier the burthens which affect agriculture; and I wish to say here, Sir, that if there be any odium in advocating the imposition of a duty—from that • odium I do not wish in the slightest degree to shrink.—(Hear, hear.) If you adopt the system now proposed, though I do not believe that in the'present civilised state of the people of England, you will have such tumults and outrages as have taken pl ace i n f orm e r centuries, yet I apprehend that you will produce growing d;seontent in the public mind. Act, therefore, so that it shall be said that you have legislated on well considered views, and for the benefit or the whole community. But I desire now to impress the ti . ..et upon you, that all commercial men and all in different spectators have Unanimously condemned the sliding-settle as the worst basis of legislation with respect to provisions, and that it .is perfectly well known to the community at large that this principle has been thus generally condemned. How can you be lieve that the public can be persuaded after such denunciations that the proprietors of land alone can take impartial views on this, subject . ; that they who are chiefly interested should, contrary to the experience of all mankind, take clear and disin terested views on the present, occasion ?—(Hear, hear.) The people will not so reason. They wi 11, I appre hend, attribute, however unjustly, that .you ;lave been e biassed ct e ina d, f a v i e u t of ho and in in those interests t o e f re:t s systemw' w which under r youae which r some members of the ativernment are said to have in creased their incomes of late.—( Laughter and " Hear.") Anything would be better than legislation. of this kind.. Be it error, if you will en a ct l a w s w hi c h may savour or the ignorance of the 15th and 16th centuries on matters of trade, you may sustain the odium arising in con sequence. But if you allow it to he said that the Par liament of this country—that the House of Commons, have decided the question in which the food of the whole community is involved on a partial basis, and to maintain your own advantages, it will be impossible but that the Legislature shall sutler in the estimation of their coun try.—(Cheers.) Such, Sir, being the views I take in the present crisis, I only hope that you may come to that decision' on this question which will show that you have large and enlightened intentions with respect to the future state of trade and commerce: —(Cheers) — that you have considered agricultural, as well as all other interests, and that, having so considered, you will pass a law which, when it is passed, men will look on as a blessing to the country, and will thank you with gratitude and fervour in their hearts as wise and bene ticent legislators.—(Cheers.) That such may be your decision I most cordially wish, but I cannot think that you can legislate thus, unless you. proceed upon princi ' ples entirely different from those submitted to you onWed nesday night. I therefore beg leave to move " That this House, considering the evils which have been caused by the present Corn-laws, and especially by the fluctuations of the graduated or sliding scale, is naootdpriespairaeLll3to, to o do b p e t the measure of her Majelsltcy;psle(!overnment, which is whilst he endeavoured, with t af : it e leilli p ldrd r .e o eGd f d b Li u bipA nd ipis e li s Smt Y l r °a e rsisi s a p lE"ne e 's c eu t 'lti f i'ds o r. r , the talents and situation of hed b h y ad urgin g the Housebby following to re him in Noble Lord, •to discharg e hi s duty, made, he should sna k e it e his the first effort to , disembarra ss t h e question of all thatin oti on e b ili a te h a 11 that did not belong to the immediate issue before the House, and confine attention to the real matter in :dispute between the Government and -the Noble: Lord. The Noble Lord had concluded his speech by drawing dismal representations of the impressions which might be entertained abroad in case the House should consent to the measure proposed by her Majesty's Government; and he (Mr. Gladstone), concluded that the foundation of those representa tions was the feeling which had been so strongly mani fested in various parts of the country with reference to the present Corn-laws. But the Noble Lord, as the advo cate of a fixed duty on corn, had no right to take advan tage of that feeling for the purpose of drawing those representations, or to assume that in case he should succeed in inducing the House to reject that mea sure, the sentiments to which he had referred would be gratified, or the agitations which existed would be al layed.—(hear, hear.) The Noble Lord had not scru pled to come forward as. a protector of agriculture. The Noble Lord declared that, in his opinion, it was impossible at the present moment to enact a free trade in corn.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had given them two grounds for that opinion ; and it seemed to him (Mr. Gladstone) that • if lie acted consistently with those grounds he ought to accept the m easure w hi c h h a d b een ten tiered by her M a j esty ' s Government.—(lronical cries of " Hear, hear," from the Opposition.) . The Noble Lord said, and he differed in that respect from his supporters, that of this coa n t r there were spe c i a l reasons for protecting the agriculturey, and i n consequence of which a c e rtain amount of taxation ought to be imposed upon the importation of the food of • the people. But the Noble Lord did not stop there ; he stated another distinct, and in his (Mr Gladatone's)opi= nion, most valid ground for theimposition of a duty upon foreign corn. The N o bl e Lord said, for a series cf years— he might have said for many centuries—the Legislature had maintained a system, differing ind ee d in its form, but still a syskem of restricti ons upon the imports tionof foreign corn. On the faith of these restrictions enormous capitals had been invested ; through those investments millions of the population were .employed, and the Noble Lord justly held that the consequences of disturbing those capitals, of creating an agricultural panic, of displacing vast quantities of agricultural labour, would be so disastrous to the country that it ought not to he entertained for a moment. Therefore, when the Noble Lord expressed himself so obnoxious to the outcry and clamour of those who con demned any restrictions on importation or on trade, and who advocated the unive'rsal and inalienable right of man—(Cheers)—to interchange the produce of his labour, the Noble Lord was amenable to the censures of many of those to whom he looked for support on his motion' that night—the cen surer of those who declared that corn and provision laws should be abolished, and that the entire and inalienable right of man—the right freely to exchange the produce of his labour for food with other countries—should be recognized, without imposing protection on those articles intended by divine Providence as benefits to man. The real question was, not which side of the House en listed in support of this argument the greatest array of prejudice and passion. If that were the ques tion, there was prejudice enough, and there was passion enough, in support of the appeal which had been made. But the question was looking con stitutionally to the representation of the people— looking to the course of legislation always pursued—looking to the burthens, as the Noble Lord affirmed, and affirmed justly, laid upon agriculture —whether, locking to all these circumstances of the case they should reject or adopt such a sca l e o f d ut i es as was required in the present state of affairs. There was a ground upon which the Noble Lord had said pro . - tection should be given to agriculture in order to make this country entirely independent of foreign supply. He (Mr. Gladstone) was going to discuss that ground at that moment, because he agreed with the principle laid down by the Noble Lord, but he did not think that, under these _circumstance, the Noble Lord could refuse to accept the proposal of his Right Honourable Friend. The Noble Lord had' quoted the opinion of a high authority, he meant Mr. Huskisson. Mr. Huskisson, in 1815, had supported the proposition now submitted, that this country should be made hide pendent of foreign supplies. He (Mr. G.) knew that subsequently Mr.:H. had occasion to modify that opinion; but seven years after having written his (Mr. IL's) report, when he was challenged on the ques tion, he gave his decided opinion that domestic agricul ture should be rendered independent of foreign supply. He should contend, in what he had to submit to the House, that the evils ascribed to the existing Corn-laws only existed in a small degree, and were full of gross exaggeration. He should further. contend, with refer ence to the Noble Lord's motion, not only that those evils were exaggerated, but that he was not justified in saying that the measure now proposed was founded on the same principle as the Present Corn-laws ; he(Mr. Gladstone)admitted that it depended in some degree on the sense in which the word, principle, was understood, and he was sorry that there was no word which they should use with more caution than that of principle. If they meant the principle of a gra duated scale, in opposition to a fixed duty, then ho granted them, the pre sen t plan was found e d on th e same principle as the existing Corn-laws.' - But if they meant that the present plan was founded on the system of ;great protection to the agriculturist, and with the inten tion of keeping corn at a high price, that he would not admit.—(Hear,' heat) 'He should also contend that the advantages ascribed to'a fixed duty on corn— which' it was all very well to laud whilst it • was in the distance, when it never had been tried, and they were suffering under present distress—were us grossly exaggerated as the defects attributed to the working of a graduated scale--(Hear, hear)—and that the objections to a fixed duty which attached to it on its own merits, were of an insuperable nature—(Hear, hear).— He thought the Noble Lord must see , an d ;hat every Man who had applied his mind to the consideration of the subject must see, that the question was beSet with difliculties, and that, under present circumstances, whether they adopted a graduated scale, or whether they adopted a fixed duty, or a system of free trade altogether, various objections might - be urged against all. He, on the other hand, was ready to admit that the present scale had not operated in the favourable way which had been anticipated by the framers of that scale. But they had to look at charges made against the present plan ; a notion had gone abroad, and it had become a popular notion, that the present Corn-laws were the cause of the distress existing in the c oun t ry. It was strange to see how men of sense, of searc hi ng minds, appeared to be possessed by a kind of mania i n di scussing the present Corn-laws, that the evils which were owing neither to that nor any other system of law, b ut to those dispositions which pro duce plenty or sca rc i ty of corn, should attribute them to the action of the Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) He referred. particularly to the writings of Mr. Wilson, a gentleman whom he could not name without express ing his admiration of his talents, and the sense of the value of the information he had thrown upon the sub ject by his researches. But a man would hardly believe read them without em read fa in ir g ly— hi t s hat works—and he hoped he had such opinions would have been advanced by a gent l eman of such intelligence. Mr. Wilson saw nothing in the fluctuations of prices and of supply, but the operation of the Corn-laws. He has said that in the yea rs 1 833, 1834, 1835, 1836, and 1837 . had imm ense supplies of corn at exceeed ices. And w h y was that ? The twice of g i this y. u o n w t r p j wheat, Mr. Wilson contended, ought from its own nature to be the steadiest thi ng i n the world. But the immensely low prices of those years arose from the fact, that the Corn-laws hail given exaggerated hopes to the farmer.—(Hear, hear.) But was there any man who could believe that the difference in prices between 1833 and 1836, and 1839 and 1840, was ascribable to the operation of the Corn-laws, and not to the operation of the seasons ? In 1839 and 1840, the prices became ex ceedingly high, and the cause of that also was the opera • Lion of the Corn-laws. The farmers had got so sick of the Cern-laws in the cheap years from 1833 to 1836, that they restricted the breadth of land brought under wheat to such an extent as to cause the difference of supply between the cheap years and the dear years.—(Hear, hear.) Now he _ would Ask whether there was any gentleman in the House pre pared to go the length, and virtually to defend the prin ciple, that the variety of seasons has nothing to do with the amount of wheat brought to market ? lie confessed that if he was to hear such an opinion advanced 'he would despair even more than he then did of a. satisfac tory and zunicable adjustment of 'the question. The Noble Lord had referred to the representations that had been made by his (Mt Gladstone's) night . lion. Friend, upon the subject of the existing distress. Nov his Right Hon. Friend did not - attribute the distress to the introduction of machinery, which must ultimately in crease the comforts of man, but he stated that the results of improvements in machinery must have thrown many hands for a time out of employment.. He (Mr. Gladstone) did nut think it could he denied that there had been an over-production of late years, and that that, over-produc tion had produced that great distress amon gst sonie.classes. There were other causes which he might enumerate, such as the great amount of capital absorbed in , other . modes, but the House would probably conceive that the late, the unusual,the extreme case of the occurrence of four bail har vests in succession, was sufficient, which was not owing to not hare to pay high, the Corn-laws. Yet when they heard of the-high price of food. But it was a char' ge oap-it.iws, that they ae.gra • wheat they never heard their bad harvests noticed. Ile could not conceive that any man Fond apply with tamper to the consideration of this subject, and not believe but that under any conceivable system it was likely that a true supplytl t?they inure than four bad harvests might occur successively, e n ar d dye, in a sp h tr t itc h iel e es might p p fr e oe o rs p e l ti e ihtei. m vated the evils of the deficiencies in the suppl y . hear.) He did nordefend them—as Corn-laws, he did aggravated As far as he the nt ; f ' n defendaa ( b )f u t t t could judge from an exatnination of the circumstances, he could not bring h i s mind to that conclusion. In the last fourteen years the fluctuations of' the p r i ce o f w h eat b a d amounted to 79 per cent., but the fluctuation in the price of cotton, an article in which trade was perfectly free, but subject to fluctuation, and he q amounted to 85 per cent. ; noted the opinion of Mr. Haskisson on the Committee of 1821. stating that l a fiCi i e t nt ti wheat was an article in which the greatest fluctuations were always to be expected. • He would not compare the prices of the home market with the prices of the foreign' market, because they replied to that that the foreign market was unnaturally sti mulated by the British demand •in times of scarcity, and unnaturally depressed wb ell that demand was withdrawn ; yet the Corn-laws were Made chargeable with these fluctuations. —(Hear.) In defence or palliation of the existing Corn-haws it was fair he should refer to former Corn-laws at former pe riods.—(Hear, hear.) If he did so the fluctuation would be found very considerable. The Right Ron. Gentleman then went into a statement of figures, showin g g that this fluctuation in the price of corn under former, Corn- • laws was as. , considerable as under the present. The Bight Hon. Gentleman. then referred to the state ment made by Sir IL Peel as to the price of rye in Prussia. It was an article which it was very fair to taloe to compare with the price of wheat in this country-, because- it made the principal part of the food of the people of that country, and if the fluctuation in the price of rye in Prussia was found to be az great as that of corn in this country, it would, he considered, be a testimony in favour 'of the present Corn-laws. The Right lion. Gentleman then quoted from the " Prussian States Gazette" a statement of the variation in the price, of rye in Prussia, which showed that the fluctuation.,.in the price of that article was greater than the fluctuation in the price of wheat in England during com.sponding periods. There was another case of the same kind, but he thought those figures showed the fluctuation s of price which had been ex perienced were not attihutable to the law tinder which they lived, but were to be ascribed to the nature of the commodity, and the difficulty of adjusting the demand to the supply. It was argued that one effect of the present Corn-law was to give to the foreigner too high a price for his corn ; and it had been stated by Mr. Blacker in the Times that the position of Eng land in asking for foreign corn was like a party at an auction who, after bidding all his competitors out of the field, went on against himself; that was, they were bidding a lirge premium to foreign holders. It was admitted with reference litany stock of corn they bad in foreign ports, that it was an evil there was no denying, but then it was said the alteration of the scale encou raged parties to hold till the prices rose. If the prices were Potted up to 735., at least this must be allowed, that there was a great abundance brought into the country. It hail been customary to refer to the last summer to show the operation of the Corn.laws, but the question was, whether under another system, whether under a system of fixed duty, the matter would be better.---( Hear. ) Let them suppose that instead of the existing law they had the es. duty of the Noble Lord; was it certain that in that case the price of corn would be as moderate as it now was , or as it was sincethe middle of September last, or as it is likely to be for the next four months? He could easily conceive that a cer tain portion of corn at a lower duty would have been brought in at an earlier period.•---( Hear, hear, froM the Opposition Benches.) but the great bulk of the corn was brought in on the spur of the moment, and by reason of the high prices. Without the high prices they had no reason to say that the corn would have come in. Even with a fixed duty the markets would continue in a feverish state. The fact was, that instead of the pressure coming on in fhe summer months, as it had, it would, have occu rre d in w i nter, w h en employment was diminished, and the wants of the people greater. The npinion; , promul gated by the Nohle Lord this evening, did not altogether cor respond with certain opinions ascribed to him when his expe rience was less mature. In his (Mr. Gladstone's) .opinion, the experience acquired by the Noble Lord withiethe last few years, had a material effect in approximating his ideas to those of the Hon. Members on his ( Mr. G,'s) side of the House. The Noble Lord seemed to be ahnost a convert to the doctrine of a mini ! mum duty. The Noble Lord said,. Collect your averages as you will, they will vet kad to fraud. For the sake of a mini mum duty, the Noble Lord was content to persevere in the system of averages, although he declared it would be accessary to fraud. Let them take the doctrine of the Noble Lord as he had ainouneed it to-night, and compare it with the graduated scale of his Right Honourable Friend. The Noble Lord said 83. or thereabouts; Its. up to the point of 735. or 745., and a tall at that point to a Is. duty.—( Hear, hear.) His Right Hon. Friend said a descent, shilling. by shilling, from 565. when it was 16s. ; at 665. it became 65., and a further descent, shilling by shilling, 4t. 735., where he and the Noble Lord at length coincided. When the price was at 645., there again his Right Hon. Friend and the Noble Lord were what they said of great planets—they were in con junction.—(Laughter.) But now, what was the operation upon the mind of the imposter of foreign corn of the two schemes? What was the temptation to • work the average? What was the comparative temptation to commit fraud under the two systems?—(" Hear," front the Ministerial benches.) Under the scheme proposed by his Right Hon. Friend, when the price was at 645., he knew that he had no chance of get. Ling down to the minimum duty without standinc , for a rise of price. The importer, at Bs., knew that he had no chance whatever till he raised the price up to 735. ; and he knew that when he worked it up to that he would get in his corn at a duty of one shilling only ; wheu there was a small supply_ it was certain that the price must. go up to 735. The Noble L or d sa id— an d certainly it was one of the most Se rious objections against the working of the present law was, that it excluded the more distant countries, as the United States. But he believed there was a misapprehension in some minds with respect to the United States. The time of transit of corn from Philadelphia or New York to Liverpool was not so tedious as was supposed. He was informed that it was id fested in six weeks.—(Hear, hear.) He could only say that was the information he had received from a gentleman of Liverpool, who was an enemy to the sliding-scale. Then what was the case of A mer i ca ? Wh en the price rose to 735. and the duty fell to Is., those who had corn in bond. and those who had it on hand in neighbouring countries could avail themselves of the low duty ; but the American would not. have a chance, for before his corn could arrive here the duty would have leaped up.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Now, in fact, the proposition, even, the Noble Lord would keep up, that which was the greatest objection to the existing law. But let them examine the scale proposed by his Right lion. Friend with America. Suppose a fall of five or six shillings to take place after corn had reached the highest point, and that ' was as great a fall as could rationally be expected, the duty in the proposed scale would be but 6s. instead of as., as pro posed by the Noble Lord opposite.—( Hear, hear.) The great objection to the existing system, as regarded America, was the enormous rapidity of the reduction. This was a •powerful objection to the continuance of the present laws, and a reason why they should adopt any practical measure for the amendment of these laws ; Lint how did the objection apply to the measure of his Hight Honourable Friend? Under the Proposed scale the difference would never amount to a prohibitory duty—all the difference, the utmost WI in the average would be 6s. or 7s. The effect of that would be to bring the prices back to about 665.. and the duty 65., the difference of du , y on Which the importer would have to calcu late would be 55., instead of 19s. Bd, or '2os. Bd., or whatever it might be at present. That difference, instead of being one that would operate •to prevent the undertakings of comatercial enterprise, was one which might enter into the reasonable cal culation of the importer, and was perfectly compatible with steadiness of mercantile transactions. The Noble Lord, in one ! portion of his spee c h, h a d ca ll e d th e p ropose d p l an o f h is Ri g h t Hon. Friend, in reference to its purposes of efficiency, " Doing nothing." New, he could not see that it was so much more blameable to propose a measure doing nothing, and a measure for doing something, which there was no hope of carrying.— (Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) But let theM see if this could be proved. Let them sec whether the absolute evidence of experience gave them reasonable grounds for hope under ordinary circumstances. The scale proposed by his Right Hon. Friend will have a different operation while wheat was high, while markets were rising, the weather threatening, and circumstances critical—whether there was a rational hope that the plan would have . a different operation than the operation of the present laws. He would not speculate that such would be the case. He wished to lay as little as possible of his own spe culation before the House, but he should try, if possible, to state what had occurred from speculative evidence. They were' not altogether without light on this subject. Wheat was not the only kind :)f grain that was placed under the operation of the scale. The operation of the scale had indeed been dif ferent as to other kinds of grain from the one proposed . by his Right Honourable Friend. The descent was more considerable in the present scale. ( Ilear, he ur .) , It had been rather prematurely assumed that the new was almost, identical with the old. Now, under the present scale, when the price was 665., the holder would be disposed to wait his chance of it reaching 735., so that between the fall of the duty and the price, he would have a chance of gaining 38s. Bd. a quarter ; but, under the new scale, when the price was 605., the holder, calculating on the uncertainty of its reaching might yet gain 13s. in price, and 1 Is. in duty, a far sum truly; but there would be many chances against it. The Noble, Lord again was wrong in assuming that a bonus of 11s. would have the same effect as a bonus 'of 5s Stl. Now, when . the price wa s 66 5 ., th e h o ld er , by wa iti ng un til it rose to 735., would gain 7s. in price, and 19s. Bd. in duty— making 265. Bd., an enormous bonus; but under the _ . proposal of his Right llonourable Friend, the price being G6s. and the duty 65., there would be less temptation to speculate in the mise to 735. ; and seeing that when under the old 19s. Bd. might be gained, while the new offered but ss. ; both could not be said to be the same. What was there then in the plan of his Right Hon. Friend which the Noble Lord could object to. The Noble Lord had stated that the plan of his Right Hon. Friend would make no alteration in prices, different from that of the old laws, he (Mr. Gladstone) would show by evidence a different effect. Messrs. Kingston and Lay, eminent. corn merchants, had written to '.the correspondsnts abroad for the Government, in their commercial transactions, and he would read an extract from the circular. The Hon. Gentleman then read an extract from a circular of Messrs. Kingston and Lay, which stated that in their opinion it would be safe to purchase corn from this country when the duty was likely to be I4s. or 18s. per quarter. The. Noble Lord had called that a prohibiting duty, and that corn would never be imported at that dot y.— Yes, the Noble Lord said that 20s. was a prohibiting duty, and for several' shillings below that sum. Now this circular had come into his (Mr. Gladstone's) hands, and he had shown that one of the first houses in the trade had recommeuded it as safe to purchase corn fur this country when the duty was likely to be 14.. or 18s.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman continued his extract from the above circular, which again recommended that corn should be purchased when it could be entered for home consumption at 14s. to l,w. duty, as under the proposed law would , not.hold out any inducement for corn-dealers to hold back, as had, kitherto been the case. The corn-dealcr would therefore sell their corn ex ship. Such was the opinion ex pressed by those gentlemen upon the plan of the /tight Hon. Gentleman. He was stuite sure they would not have made that recommendaticn under the other plan. But he ( Air. Gladstone) proposed to take the rates of duty which had been taken under the existing law, vicious as it. was in some parts. lie should take the rates of duty on every species of corn, ex cept wheat, in order to enable the House to judge whether the proposed plan was likely to meet the evils complained. Now, the average rate of duty from July, 1821, to December, 1841, had been ss. 7d. If it had been paid in •a sum proportionate to its value, then, instead of being he. 7d., it would have been something less than 3s. Now, mark the argument of the Noble Lord. who said that the alteration would do no thing to improve the present system—that. corn would be held back, when it would be a relief to the market—that it would not be admitted till prices were at the highest, and then the market would be glutted—and whether they had the old sliding scale, or the one proposed, was of very trifling moment. If the operation of the barley scale had been analogous to the wheat scale, the duty paid would be 3s. instead of -is. Bd. The duty on oats, if paid irt the same proportion, would have been 2s. 2d. What did the House suppose was the average duty exacted? It was three tiraes that amount—exactly Gs. 6d. Yet the Noble Lord, considering these facts altogether beneath his notice, or unworthy time consideration of the House, coolly overlooked them, and told them that the operations of the al tered scale would be the same as the operations of the present scale. In the case of rye alone, there Was little difference, and that was because the demand for rye in this csontry was at all times very limited. Beans, in the same ratio of charges, would be 4s. 2d. instead of ss. 9d., peas 3s. 2s. instead of 6s. 4d. He put it to the House, whether the operations of the altered scale of his Right Honourable Friend, were not calculated, according to reasonable expectations, to amend the operations of the present law, with which so much fault had been found. Then the Noble Lord said that his great objection to the plan of his Right Hon. Friend was that it contained a prohibitory duty ; and to show this he (the NUble Lord) had referred to the prices of wheat at Dantzic, when Mr. Meek was on the Continent, and had taken the circumstances of re cent years ; he had found that they could not get wheat at Dantzic under 355. per quarter, he added to that IN. 6d. for charges. This he would not call an exorbitant, though it certainly was an excessive allowance. By adding 10s. 6d. for charges he (the Noble Lord) got the price up to 455. 6d., and he then should add the duty of 205., and it will be absolutely prohibitory.—( Hear, hear. ) Now they had a protective duty, which in certain states of the market would not be prohibitory.—( hear.) The question was whether was appli e d was reasonable, wile the price at which the duty ther it indicated plenty at home, for if that was the case the principle of a Corn-law ought to be maintained, as it would secure the Pgriculturists and the mass of labourers dependant upon agriculture. As long as the home-producers were able to supply the home market, it would be necessary to levy a duty on foreign corn ; but the Noble Lord said that a duty of twenty shillings was a prohibitory duty. Ile (Mr. Gladstone.) would join issue with them upon that subject. When the price of wheat at Dantzic was 265. people were apt to assume that. it was the natural price of corn ; and that every price over and above that was - unnaturally caused by the demand from this country. The natural price of corn there was 255., and he was convinced, from the system which prevailed and the rates paid, and other circumstances which entered into the question, that they must have a certain quantity of corn dispos a bl e f or his country at unnaturally low prices, and it was against these low prices that the agriculturists of this country have theprinciple of protection applied to them. —( Cheers.) The Noble Lord must know that when wheat at 255. was shipped from Dantzie it would come into this country at a price with which the Engl.sh farmer could not. compete. He (Mr. Gladstone) did not feel himself hound by what the Consul at Dantzic told Mr. Meek, but corn could be imported fur 265., and he knew it could be imported from some of the Baltic ports at 265., 275., or 28e. How could the home producer contend against such prices ?—( Hear.) At present the average price in this country was 625., and he believed in London it was 645. or 655. ; and if, assuming the statement of the Noble Lord, that Dantzie wheat, of a superior quality, could be purchased at 355., and that a duty of I Os. on im portation was imposed, how was it possible that it would not be detrimental to the home grower.—( Hear. ) It should he al ways kept in mind that a duty of 20s. was no new imposition to be laid on the operative or commercial classes in favour of the landed interest.—( Hear. ) Since the year 1704, there never was a period when there had not been a maximum duty of 20s, on the importation of foteign corn. In the latter part of last century it had been. considerably raised during the war to a maximum duty of something over 30s. For the last one hundred and forty yeall there was a maxi mum duty of 205., during a portion of which there was a corn trade, which may be said to be free for all practical pur poses. There were thirty years to which the opponents of the present Corndaw referred, as showing the benefit of a system of a free corn trade, during which the manufacturers, and commerce, and agriculture of the country advanced, as they ought to do, with rapidity, and hand .in hand, and yet, during the whole of that period, there was a maximum duty of 20s.—. (Cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend, therefore, in the proposi tion he has made, proposed only such a scale as that, during the existence of which the country, by their own admission, was in a healthy and sound condition.--(Cheers.) It was said that. the irregularity in the demand for corn would have a ten dency to derange the currency.—( Hear, hear.) He was not inclined to deny that there was some truth in that state ment.-_( Hear, hear.) But they must look to all the facts of the case. It has been said that by a fixed duty a steady and un varying tradewould be produced, that they should pay for corn with manufactures and not in specie, and that they would avoid derangements of the currency, and they contrast that picture with what had taken place during the last four years. But, in the first place, would a fixed duty have the effect of doing away with the derangements in the currency ? It was said that the trade with America was crippled, because they did not take Americatacorn. Now, in the year 1840, they only imported 100,000 barrels of flour, and their export trade amounted to 5,800,000/. ; while, in the. year 1836, there was scarcely any imports of corn, while they exported 12,000,0001. ( Cheers. ) They must not be ready to expect that other countries would enter with them into their commer cial policy, if they were to change it. Could they suppose that, though they may take a larger amount of corn from Rus,ia, that Russia would gre ttly enlarge her demand for their manufactures?—(Hear, hear, hear. ) Their exports to that country amounted to 6,000,0001,, and their imports amounted ta only 2,000,000/., and the Emperor of Prussia—he supposed by way of encouragement to open the trade in corn, had lately imposed a more restricted tariff. —( Hear.) It was natural to look to them as the commercial leaders of the world, but it ought not to be too hastily expected that if they suddenly relaxed their commercial system, and had recourse all at once to extreme measures, these countries would also change their's in a moment., for the sake of illustrating or proving the truth of their example. But was it not true that great fluctuations and derangements of the currency, and a ge neral pressure on the money market must have occurred in substance under any Corn-law.— ( Hear, hear.) Granting the defects of the present system, would a fi xed duty remedy th o s e derangements ?—(Cries of "Hear, hear.") He did not think it would be considered that the derangement in currency would be cured by a fixed duty. It could not be expected with rela tion to such articles as were subject to fluctuation and uncer tainty, - and of which the demand must be adjusted by the supply, that they could avoid those derangements of the currency. It was not material how much they imported • the evils they de plored, and w hi c h t h ey attr ib uted to the C orn-law would have existed. Those imports would not be paid for with manufac tures, but their value must be drawn from the currency, busi ness would be diminished, labourers would be unemployed, deadness of the whole market would ensue, and they Would be in the position they were at present.--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") He should be glad to ate the proof that, under the system of a fixed duty, the derangements which existed in the currency, the four last years, would be different from what they are at present.—(Cheers.) He must say, therefore, that the advantages of a fixed duty in that respect were greatly exaggerated, but it was the habit to make the Core-laws the scape-goat of all that was wrong in the country. ( Cheers.) He would now come to the principle of a fixed duty. In the first place the principle of a fixed duty was a new prin ciple of legislation, while a Corn-law had existed for five hun dred years; but it might be inconvenient to go so far back.— ( A laugh.) And there had been a maximum duty, except during the year 1815, when there was a prohibitive in stead of a maximum duty ; and even the Corn-law of 1815 was the application of a principle that had prevailed for many years, and had governed the structure of every Corn-law since 1660. The distinctive character of a fixed duty was that the duty tad no relation to price. It got rid of all averaees, lint if they looked into the accurate tables drawn up by Mr. Porter, they would find that the principle of the Corn-law was that the duty was always governed by the price, and that as the price so was the duty.—( Hear, hear.) The gradations of duty had been made more numerous generally, but aseo principle, the fixed duty approximated to the principle of the present law, and the principle proposed by the Noble Lord is altogether a novel one.—( Hear, hear. ) The Noble Lord said, and he thought said rather boldly, that the Committee of 1821 recommended a fixed duty, but it was a fixed duty at the importation prim of 48s. a quarter—(Hear, hear)—and he concluded that the Noble Lord would not ven ture to offer such a boon as that to those who were advocates for free trade.—(Lordd. Russell made an observation across the table, which was inaudible. Mr. Gladstone then continued.) There was . a passage in that report, even more favourable to the Noble Lord's argument, than tire one he quoted. The Com mittee held out a fixed duty as a fit matter for discussion,but they did not propose it as a substitute for or a correction of the laws then existing. What they proposed was that the duty should be fixed according to the importation of price. lint, granted that it was as the Noble Lord hail stated, anti that a thaw! duty had the authority of Mr. I inskisson--and a higher authority was nowhere to be finnul—yet Mr. liuskisson afterwards changed that opinion, and saw reason to enueeive that a ' oTaa duated scale was capabl e o f more b ene fi c i a l operation. Hut was the Noble Lord to tell him that the authority of Mr. Huskisson's report of 1821 aas to over ride his authority at a later period ?—( Hear, bear.) Was Mr. Iluski%son's conduct and declarations then to be considered as over-riding his autho rity of 1827, when he showed that a graduated scale was capable of a better adjustment? lint what was the real objection to a fixed duty ?—( Hear. ) He did not say that its advantages were much less than they professed to be, not. only in attaining the objects which it was represented as likely—aye, as the sure means of effecting, but that a fixed duty . was in fact a delusion, for it could not be maintained That one single reason was sufficient why the proposition for a fixed duty ought not to be maintained. It would be im possible for any Legislature in this country to maintain any duty beyond a mere nominal duty, when prices were at a high rate. The Noble Lord (whom he did not wish to distinh), had, during the last year been very much amused, when he termed the sliding scale a very slippery thing, and that at high prices it would be impossible to levy a fixed duty. If they referred to the authority of Mr. Canning, who was strictly the organ of Mr. Huskisson's commercial views in 1827, he says that with famine in the manufactories and famine in the cottage it would be impossible to maintain a fixed duty on the article on which life was chiefly supported. But why need they go back so far ?--why not appeal to the authority which had been afforded in se gratifying manner this night by the Noble Lord himself?—(Cheers and laughter.) Did they not ,understand that, skilled as the Noble Lord was in debate, proficient as he was in the practice of the House, and able as he was in supporting his arguments, whatever those arguments might, be--(Laughter)—had he not. to-night formally aban doned his own proposition— (Cheers)—and declared his opinion that it would be impossible to levy a fixed duty beyond a cer tain point ?—( Great cheering.) There must be a provision, whatever Government, or whatever Parliament might make it, of a fixed maximum price by which to redurse the duty ; and the question was which mode of adjustment would he prefer able. He was convinced that the Noble Lord in spite of his abhorrence of fraud, notwithstanding all that lie had said, and all that he had written on restrictions, and on the exeellunce of a fixed duty, had actually. declared that he was ready to have a fixed duty.—( hear, hear, and cheers.) If the present scale jumps too or three shillings, no jump less than of eight shillings would satisfy the Noble Lord.—(Great. cht. ring. ) Now a duty of twenty shillings on foreign corn as imposed on the proposed scale, though it was snitch higher than it could be justified by ordinary arguments, vet it appeared to him to be 'a 'fair compromise between the evils of the present system and the agricultural interest. The agriculturists demanded prole :tion on two grounds—first, from the peculiar burdens laid upon land ; secondly, on the ground of the immense investments that have taken }dace under the present system. Now, how did the case stand? The article most tiece*sary, and of most. importance to the subsistence of the people. was also the most fluetuatiug in price, and one on which they claim. not as a favour but as an absolute matter of justice, that up to a certain I oint they should have protection. It was admitted, except by the Noble Lord, that when the price reached a certain point in the case of wheat, that protection could not be given, the Slat , not being able to give to the producer of wheat that protection which it gave to the producer of every other article, It assumes to protect him, and ought to compensate him by a duty at a low price, fur its inability to give him a protecting duty at a high one ; he could see no injustice in Ibis arrangement. Other objections would depend on the skill with which the details of the plan were adjusted, but he did think that a compensating high duty, at a low point of price, was no more than he could in fairness demand. It was, therefore, that he had argued at. such great length on the present subject.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Rut with respect to that comparatively narrow practical question now hetore them, the point us, whether the protection due to agriculture should be gavento one particular form or in another. They had heard evils a, cribed to the present law, and those evils had been greatly ex aggerated, but they had no right to argue front the evils of the old law, that the continuance of those evils, on the contrary, would obviate their recurrence; anti he argned against the fixed duty, and he trusted he should show that it would not in practice, and it was impossible it should do, nor would any other system do, what it proposed to effect ; and, in point t 4 fact, it was no better than a delusion, because he believed con scientiously, and with his mind and heart, that a fixed duty could not, under a pressure, he continued. Further, he argued that the measure proposed by his Right Hon. Friend was a measure of practical relief —a measure which he trusted, and hoped, and believed, was a measure which many would be found willing to accept, though many would not consider that it embodied precisely their own sentiments on this great sub ject How was it possible that any scheme, or law, or pro posal, which involved a multitude of arguments, which in cluded feelings under which they were themselves guided and sometimes driven—they could not expect that any one scheme would command universal acceptation. But this much he did say, that the presumption was not only in their opinion, but ought to he in the opinion of those opposed to the present Corn-laws, a great improvement on the system under which they existed,—an improvement which they would see carried into effect without the occurrence of those great and counteracting evils which would attend a change made against the wish of the agriculturists. ho was it that had warned 1 them against toe monstrous evils attendant on a change in the ; Corn-laws, and had read them the strongest lecture on that subject that they had ever received? Why, the head of the j late Government. —(Loud cheering.) The head of the late Government had told them, and that, too, at a recent period, that he, for his part, even then, no twithstanding the pressure that ha d occurred, notwithstanding the high prices, the de rangement of the currency, the lack of employment, and the depression of their export trade,' the exhaustion o f t h e home market,—yet he (Lord Melbourne) had told them; in a recent declaration one made under circumstances peculiarly applicable. to the present time, " Whatever was the alteration proposed by his Friend, he could see clearly And distinctly that its object could not be carried without a violent struggle, the creation of ill blood, and the deep tuns,. of grievance ; without stirring society to its founds lion, leaving behind it every sort of animosity. He did not think the advantage of the change worth the evils it would u l . r t !n , g , wi t h its They had, at no distant period, seen changes would „ society,sed set man against man, and had left behind the deepest feelings of discord. He, for one, ti d iu saying No ts f otion was not one o e tr e h l : i rn, y c ; ,l i( a )ol n ne d no , t f o c n thh athischange, Ne ,gorbboluuetn merely ac t , e e .,;: w ; a fo s ir j , h u aa si admissioe that some change ought to take place in the Cern laws. That which Lord Melbourne denied was conceded, o' rather offered than conceded, by her Majesty's Government. Lt did not disturb the system, and yet settled nothing. On the ctntrary it was a great legislative plan, which they were assured might be carried into effect without creating a convul sion It would meet with the satisfaction of the agricuienrat community and their representatives in that House, as all a , the other great interests of the country.—(Hear, heat,'S Were they to stand contending with mere abstractions, arni doing battle,, Session after Session, for different plans of amend meet of the Coin-laws ; and, in the meantime, letting our selves remain as weever were? Ile refer.ed mile , circular of the Anti-Corn-law Conference, which, he was Pony to gay, represential the letilings of a gnat number of persons.. They on Wedt,esdav hts plan was an insult to the suflering nation. They took it for a de claration e a o t n i tTu l d f- e li d as h t is s al e r n ess w , ho decl ared ßlgh l t h Hon. the that the landed aristocracy v ere destitute of all gym= pathy ; wertsresolved, if permitted by the people, to persist in their selfish policy. They met again at nine, and passed a resolution, slating that the deputies then present did, en further eousideration, give the place, both on :heir own litheir and in the name of their constituents, their solemn condetstria"= .. than, and int en d their protest against it, as a total denial of the just. demands of the people of this country. —( Hear, hear. He knew net what the just demaids were to to which they referred, but he would alto turn to the sentiments of an oppo site' party. Of those who stood at the opposite extreme their opinions were differently expressed, for he found, at a meet.' log held at Boston on the same day, the 9th of February, 4 114 the farmers of Boston think there is co insult contained in tlve plan which was entitled to their respect. He thought they made some demands which could not be complied with, but they suggest that the larger towns, such as Manchester and Birmingham, should not he included in the list of those fee making out the averages. That the average price of ... Wheat should not be less than 60s. a quarter, and that, inasmuch se' wheat could be conveyed from Hamburgh to London for the same cost as from Lynn or Boston, the amount of their protection waS merely the amount of the duty and the transit. could not be taken into account. That the maximum duty of 20.. a quar ter was insufficient for the protection of the English farmer, by the ruinous competition against the farmer, an d th a t ihe maximum duty ought not t o be less than :30s. But what wee to be done between such extremes, which, however, both as in this respect, that they both acted honestly in what they believed to be, not their own selfish interests, but the interests of the country at lirge ; and a pro position m a d e , e i t h er f or one or the othr, would hate no hope of obtaiiiieg any settlement. Ile therefore treated that Hirt House would adopt, andettopt by a large majority, the measure recommended by his Right Hon. Friend, as a great improvement in the operation of the laws, as a bene ficial change for the entire community, yet still maintaining the great principle which Parliament was pledged to main tain, that of protection to the agricultural it terest._that large, and overwhelming interest, which in some form or other was connected with, and dependent on the agricultural community. —( Hear, hear.) In his part, and as a servant, of the Govern ment, and looking on all the circumstances on which he could form a judgment in the matter, he gave a hearty assent to the proposal. lie was tatisfitd that it' they should succeed in carrying the measure proposed, it would be found that it would give a relief to the consumer, a protection to the producer, and gave a stimulus to their foreign trade.—( Cries of Hear.) Though their measure itself might be misrepresented, arid their motives and characters maligned as connected w ith i t , yet they would be we ll con t ente d with the consciousness that they had made an effort to benefit the country, and they might wait with patience for is judgment.—(The Hon. Member sat down amid loud cheering from the Ministerial benches.) Mr. CHARLES WOOD said that the Hon. Gentleman had taken some trouble to prove, first, that the Ministerial mea sure was scouted as a mockery by the Anti-Corn-law Con ference, and was considered as an inadequate protection by the agricultural interest.--(Hear, hear, hear.) He certainly did not expect that the admission would have come . from that. side of the House, an admission, that neither to those who advocated the true interests of the country, nor those who were put forward as the representatives of the agricultural dis tricts, had the proposition of her Majeety's Ministers given any satisfaction whatever ?—( Hear, hear) lie had stated also, that this measure was defended not for the purpose of establishing a remunerating price, not for giving a protection to any one class ; he had equally repudiated the idea that it was for the purpose of maintaining the country inde pendent of foreign supply, an independence which, he believed, had Lever existed during the present century. Looking at the returns which had been laid on the table, of the import of corn from the beginning of this century, it would be found that for the first. ten years it was half a million o quarters per annum ; about the same for the next ten years; upwards of a million quarters from 1820 to 1829 ; and that dulling the last ten years the average importation was upwards of two million quarters of corn. It was perfectly absurd and ridiculous, therefore, to talk of their being independent of foreign supply, when, from the beginning of the present cen tury, this country had not been able to supply its population with food, and when, too, it was evident that its inability to do so was constantly increasing. The question was no longer should they be independentfof foreign supply; but in what way, on what Iterms, and by what regulations that supply could be received with most advantage to the country.--(hear, hear.) The question was whether that could best he done by a fixed duty or by a sliding scale.. The Right Hon. Gentleman said that. it was utterly impossible for them to regulate the seasons, to reckon with certainty upon the harvests, and to provide against fluctuation ; hut he (Mr. C. Wood) saw no difficulty what ever in the attempt to counteract those fluctuations, and he contended that the sliding-scale was adopted to increase them. The Right. Hon. Gentleman had made many statements for the purpose of showing that.the variations in price had not been so great as %had been : supposed. He (Mr. C. Wood) could not admit for.a moment that he had made out his case. The Bight. Hon. Bart. stated that the object of his scale was to keep the price of corn between, 14 . 5. and 58s. in other words, to keep it at about 116 s. Now, was there any probability of that being effected? He contended that th ere was not. And in the old law a ranch wider range was laid doen for the flnetuatinn, and he would show - them the object had in that case entirely failed. Mr. Canning Stated that his elijrict was to keep the price varying from 555. to 655. 'I he fluctuation, however-, far exceeded 70 per cent. or 8b per rent., which the Hon. Itaronet seemed to consider the utmost limit. It, the beginning of the winter of 1831, ,the. price was 755. ; in Dee. 1,*31, it was t:t ;in Dec. 1832, itjco.,sZ3s. 7d. ;in e. 183-1, it was 40s. ; in Dee. 1835, it was ,365;. so that under this law, which was to keep the price of corn steady at 605., the price in 1835 was lower than it had been for the preceding 70 years. The very next winter, within twelve months, the price bad risen to till. Od., or 70 cent. ; in the winter of 1R29, the price had risen to hOs. 6d., Inure than .11:(1 per rent above the price in Dee. I£x:s.—(Hear, hear.) But he would now take the quartorly averages. Take the last ten years ending in 1840. Out of those ten years, in th r e e o f t h em on l y did the yearly average range within the limit stated by Mr. Canning. In • 1631, the yearly average was 665. 4d. above the limit ; in 1832, 58s. Bd., within the limit ;, in 1833, 525. 11d., below the limit; in 1834, 465. 2d. below the limit ; in 1835, 495. 4d ; in 1836, 48s. 6d., again below Mr. Can ning's average ; in 1837 and 1838, 555. 10(1., anti 645. 10d. both within the limit ; in 1839, 70s. Bd. ; iu le4o, 665. 4d. again above Mr. Catining's limit. So that in 7 years out of the last 10, *kit's!: the average, the Bill of Mr. Canning entirely failed iu keeping the, price cif corn within the limit, if 10s. should be assigned to the fluctuation. And it should be ob served that in these prices there were none of those extraor dsnary jumps, none of those drops of 25., 35., and 45., upon which so much stress had been laid. It was not likely then that the proposed scale would succeed in its object when the old one, which allowed a larger limit, had totally failed.— ( Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Gentleman insisted not a little on the variation iu the price of rye in Prussia ; there it was the main article of consumption. He thought it was not fair to institute a comparison between two countries, otie of which was so superior to the other in advancement. and civilization.-(Hear, hear.) . There was a statement in on '•f the pamphlets to w hi c h r e f e rence had been made, that by it C. Lemon, the object of which was to show that the varia tion was greater in foreign ports than in this country. 'faking the pric e from the year 1829 to 1838, and compar ing it with the price in England, it appeared that from nine different ports or places, namely, Odessa, Memel, Hamburg!), Antwerp, Dant zis, Dresden, Rot terdam, and America, the variation was much greater in Eng land them in those places. In the year 1840, between the end of July and beginning of Sept., the ditty fell from 16s. Bd. to 2s. Bd. On reference to these accounts it would be sect' Nliat in the week ending the 30th of July with a duty of 16s Bd. there were 4,000 quarters imported ; the next week, at. a duty of 10s. Bd., there were 14,000 quarters ; Rio next week at (is. Bd., there were 11,000 Then came the minimum duty of 2s. std., when there were 1,170,000 quarters. Would it not have been for the ad vantage of the country to hare had an Bs. fixed duty during the whole of that period ? He (Mr. Wood) said that it seemed to him . - Viat by the documents produced by the Government, 20s. ap . pealed to he a prohibitory duty. The duty at 565., which was the p ice aimed at by the Hight Hon. Gentleman, amounted to almost a prohibi tory duty. Protection to the fat mer was entirely throw. over by the flight Honourable Gentleman. and the g ood of the community at lar g e seemed to be his only object. It. remained then to be shown why 565. was precisely she price which would be for the good of the community. If any reliance could he put on the returns retreating the price acorn, it was ordinarily about 455. That price included all torts of wheat, good and bad, and if they compared that price with ;he price of English wheat, it would be found that. 455. was far Mow tie average quality of English wheat. It would bn found that, for the last ten years, no foreign corn whatever paid a duty of more than 10s. ; and therefore every duty ex• cceding that sum was 't quivalent to a prohibitory duty. The great utast of corn imported into this country since 1630. was imported at a duty - of Ms. in ISW there had been 1,400,000 quarters imported, and nearly 1,200,000 of that paid tis duty. In 1H:11 there had been imported 1.000,000 quarters. and of these 963,000 paid under Ms. duty. In 183 e, 1,700,000 quarters, of which 1,500,000 quarters paid a duty under Ss. In 1839,'2,500,000 quarters, of which only 50,0(X) quarters paid a duty above 10s. In 1840, about :340,0(K) quar ters above a duty of 111 , ., but all the rest was imported at or under Ss. duty. The lowest average price was 455. 9d., and the highest 535. 5d., and if the average freight, without. any charges, was added, the average price at the port of ex port would be Zi4s. 544. Upon that it would be found That the duty would amount to a prohibitory duty. He had he thought, shown that a fixed duty would secure greater ad vantages to the consumer than the sliding-scale. It was nut necessary to state any arguments in favour of any particular amount of fixed duty. It was convenient for Hon. Gentlemen opposite to argue upon the amount proposed by the -Govern ment of last year, namely 85. He had shown that corn at a fixed duty of t.s. would have been cheapet —that neater advantage would have been derived by the consumer Mtn a fixed duty, during the last summer (which had been selected by the Right Hon. Gentleman in his arguments), when prices were high, than form a sliding scale. A fixed duty, b e it w h a t it might, only took so touch from the profit of the foreign im porter, without adding to the price pant by the consumer. A fixed duty would also be attended with what he (Mr. Wood) held to be a still greater advantage—he meant a regular, constant, arid steaoy trade. So long as any sliding scale was in operation ( although the proposed scale was an improvement on the present one), iso long the trade must be intifined necessarily to ports wi bin a short distance. The merchants of Hamburgh and other places on the Conti nent, were anxious that the Corn 'laws should be continued i n their resent state—that clearly showed that they must_be . a t source of advantage to them. The argument of the measure liin sHe s on7,..hau Gentleman in generally a prevailing m ed i n tii Holt. Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) in favour against s t t h a til t the e i influx u tl x r i o t i f s h f o r p e e i g oli , l people 0 could rn a t periods not w protect h o rea f a_ h l t i : s l i. l e em s , s z_ e . ! bo v en e is s , on the . Continent, and it, th is country were f e a vourable. hi Honourable corn is dear on the Continent, said tiv it is scarce there, it Baronet, it will be also dear here — protection under r harves t in the (tie, will be scarce here. The same was sorry to see that the other ; so that 'both countries, if there was a there must I,e also a plentiful h a r ve st such circumstances. 1-1 the great evil which a therefore a fixed duty cou l d lir n 0 0 0d) plentiful harvest.—(Cheers.) the have anticipated ,I a. . , i ( )resent laws WAS to take 1 p l entit in possible whole eff . ' t ' f f-I°. country, and hand from the people of this them over to for. t ,i , The greats advantages were taken from the ship. goers. the Right