The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-31 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HO USE OF LORDS, MiltCß 30. The Royal ASSCRt vaa given to-day, by Corurnissiov, to the Sugar Duties Bill, the Pauper Settlement Bill, the Population (Ireland) Bill, the Prohibition and Tilandamns Bill, the Witnesoes Examination Bill, the Canada Lando Bill, the St. Martittlo (Birmingham) Burying-ground Improvement Bill, and 32 private Bills. The Commissioners were the LORD CHANCELLOR, Earl GREY, and the Earl of SHAFTESBURY. TURTON'S DIVORCE BILL. Mr. Adam appeared in support of this Bill, which is rather extraordinary, teing the second instance only of a wife applying to the Legislature for a divorce from her husband. The first instance took place in 1801, when a wife applied for a divorce from her husband, on the ground of his having hod an adulterous and incestuous intercourse with her sister, and there the Bill was passed. The ma terial farts of the present case were, that Turton, a bar rister, tnarrit d the applicant, a daughter of General Brown, residing near Bath. Turton came to London with his wife, and applied hiniselt with great diligence to his pro cession. Adeline, another daughter of General Brown, resided with them while in London, arsine years after the marriage; and the wife at length discovered that an adul terous and incestuous intercourse was going on between her sister and her husband. Ste telt utterly at a loss what to do, as she was anxious to avoid exposure, both on account of her sister, and clii , fly on account of her father and fa mily connections. The husband admitted the fact, and stated his determination to proceed to Calcutta to prac tise there ; and his wife understanding that he was to leave the sister behind and give up his guilty intercourse with her, aareed to accompany him. When at Gosford, and about to embark, she found that the sister was to go out in the same ship, and when she remonstrated, the husband said that the sister was with child by him, and that he could not abandon her to exposure and infamy. The wife, still actuated, as was alleged, by the desire to avoid expo sure, and the pain which it would occasion to her father, consented to go nut with him. The incestuous inter course continued on the passage, and still the wife and the aiater dined at the same table. In three months after their arrival at Calcutta, the sister was delivered of a child, and then the wife demanded that she should be sent back to England, as the husband had engaged she should be after her delivery. The husband, however, refused to send her back again. The delivery took place in April; and the wife finding that the sister was not to be sent hack, re solved herself to leave India and return to England. A ship could not be immediately got at that season, and she remained in the husband's house for two or three months more, and then embarked for England, and commenced proceedings in the Ecclesiastical Court, and obtained a di vorce a mensa et thoro, and now applied to the Legislature for a divorce a viactdo. The LORD CLIANCELLOR said, that in the instance of 1801 everything was in favour of the lady, and the House broke through its rule of not listening to such ap plications on the part of the wife, through the horror en tertained at the incest. But here the lady had remained with the husband and the sister after she knew of the adul sarong and incestuous intercourse, and even went in the same ship with them to India, and dined at the same table . wit's them, although the criminal intercourse still cont\. nued. This looked aomething like connivance. She should have left her husband the moment she knew of the crime, or have consulted the father, who might have taken measures to compel the sister to - and not to go to India. In the case of 1 hand had been in the situation of the wife, got a divorce. Here, if a husband had In ration of the wife, it was clear that he divorce. Lord ‘VYNFORD thought that the lad' *itch au etnbarrassing situation, that eh, know what to do, and it wae rather too mr application on the ground that eLe had , best coulee that micht have been taken, ships were not confined to any particular to be considered that ti e lady's motive what she stated it was, that teas, to submi her very cruel situation, rather than by lather's grey hairs with sorrow to the gre Lord TENTERDEN—The lady might acted from tie most pore and viltuous thought therefore that the case ought not the present stage. The LORD CHANCELLOR felt the observation.. and had only stated the which the case was beset, without saving not be got over. But it was his duty to lou.y these c4.eR, in order to aveertain wl core—ion or contrivatnee, end he would cane the coot,. of the evidence. Farther proceeding ttn the MI of Apri. Lord DUNCAN pfaseutedape ---- tition fr..° .the of Commerce of Dundee, in favour of oe of Reform. He took that 4:spier-re/snit)" , with the petitioners, to -express Xis thardee to his Majesty's Ministers for that most excellent which united the two important advantages and being efficient, and which had in a wog unexampled degree united condictieg opiniewe, sied given ahnost uni versal satisfaction, ee o oeiolidating the representation in Parliament, and placing it on the clearest and the. surest. I footing. But that part of the country from which came was under peculiar ohligationa to his Majesty's nieters, and there the measure was, as aright well be e sa , pected, hailed not usevely with a pp robation, but entlitre sissm. In England, however bad the system had become, there was always some real pepdarr representation ; but in Scotland there wee none, and his isluble and Learned Friend en the Woolsack Ives well wairenteii in saying, as he did the other night, that in Scotlaud, even the tanits ties were closer than English . close boroughs, and the llernbers for the close boroughs in Scotland were elected! by clo.e bodie., who elected each other; so diet there was i nothing like popular representation. It was no wonder, therefore, that this measure was there hailed with enthu siasm; and it was remarkable that at Glasgow, when they heard of it, there was an illumination, under the directions of the Magistrates, whose monopoly it went to destro;. , . Lord FARNHANI admitted that, through length of time, the representation had got into such a state that thete was need for some Reform. But if the theory of the Constitution were to be acted on as a rigid rule, ad mitting of no relaxation, it would be impossible to carry on the Government. There were, however, some ano malies in the practical part of the Constitution and in the state of the representation, which enab!ed the Government to carry on the pubic hueinees smoothly. One of tht: meet important of these anomalies was the borough inte rest, which prevented a too violent collision between the different p eta of the system, as that was the manner in which this House and the Crown were in some degree re presented in the House of Commons. But his great and special objection to this measure was. that it destroyed the close boroughs in Ireland. These boroughs were established • in the reign of James 1., for the purpose of peoteeetiug the settlers from Great Britain and the Protestant interest. They had not decayed, but were still efficient, and still re quired to answer the great purpose for which they were established. If in these boroughs they extended the elec tive franchise to every householder paying 101. a year rent, they would create a very inferior class of voters—a class which would depend on popular opinion for their existence. There was an attempt during the heat of the agitation on the Catholic question to ruin that description of people in case teey did not support the measure of what was called emancipation, and many of them bad heen ruined. The summons of coercion might he used to compel then) to sup port the repeal of the Union, anti it might be taken (10 a certainty that that use of it would be made. The conse- , quence would be, that thirty or forty of their nominees would be returned to Parliament; and they all knew thst ' thirty or forty agitators in the House of Commons, acting as one united body for a particular purpose, might be so troublesome as to prevent the public business being car ried on by the Government._(Hear, hear.) They all knew that the Catholics of Ireland wished the desti action of the Protestant Church Estahlialuneot in that country, and so many Members leagued and banded for that pur pose would be too much for any Government. Now, lie affirmed that the grand stake which this country held in Ireland for the preservation of the Union was the Protest ant Church Eetahlieliment, and if the Protestants saw that their interests were abandoned and sacrificed, they wou ld 'oin the Catlailici in eshiee; for a repeal of the U,noe, and then no Government co uld resiee a brave, determined, and united people, wee would laugh at a6y efforts that might be made against them. lie would deprecate that coercion as much ca any man, but he was bound to state his opinion that such would he the effect of the Reform if pushed to this extent. lie was tine of those who thought that the Irish Legieletere, in acceding to the measure of the Union, had exceeded its powers. But thirty years' acquiescence was a prescription which no man ought to nut the slightest wish to di sso l ve t h e break, and he ha d connection. The LORD CHANCELLOR did most e :so x , e , eely e i L ng o l r y d la ment to Lear such languag e l'n't ql by any this House. Suppose that hr, ti=e friend of Reform, end the advocate of the measure, had Laid to those who op posed it, beware how you oppose the measure, for if you • do, you will unite Jacobins, 13allot-wen, Annual Varna-. mint-men, and every thscription of people against you; uestion. peal . .fir a estsblislune4 AuITICI Cethelic Cl.ltreh in Ireland; en the reoutrcry . , sentiments trcre zulverse to boil. At liens of : 1 finiOn he iod opprired the ; bu 4 Jibe many stioa ti' done so, he noist theru,;7lt trust any atte4t to of feet-a Clun k gee could not urnve otherwise than tuischievous. He said that he should strenuously deprecate. any attempt trs ests.blish the Catholic Church in Ireland ; and though he could not hen' consider. such an establishment a misfor tune, he could riot at any time regard 4.as iuccrusiatept with the union of the two countries, He had always Glared hiideteeinination to support tise Prottnaut thaadvicaci - of the:Catholic claims he had always maintained, that danger there might he in 'heir iineesaitin, there won!'" be in their. refusal ten timer -greater danger. Indeed, in the ore case. there might he ::n ; jes- ; but in the Lather there was certain destruction. But he trustee' the Protestant Establishment was in no (I.inger, , that the correction of a buses would remove all odium, and tliz system of its government would be placed upon such a footing as to render it secure against any hos tile excitation of the people which its enemies might' crezte, He would repeat that, if asked his opinion re specting the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church in Ireland, he should say, as he had said before, that lie should deprecate any such establishment ; but if a le-li:fortune of that nature should befal the country, be saw no reason whatever why the two countries might not rennin united still. Canada, and several States on the Continent, distinctly proved the practicability of such a stag of things—he meant that in which two countries possessiog different religious establishments, should still be united legislatively--should acknowledge the slime Govern ment, and he ruled by tit:: same institutions. He had been led into these observations by finding himself compelled to make a few remarks upon the language used upon that oc casion ; and, finally, he begged to affirm, that the measure of Reform proposed in the other House was nn proof what ever that the Protestant interest had been deserted or be trayed ; nay, so far from there being any danger of the sort, he believed that the intended change in the represen tation of the pl'ople would have a directly contrary result, and would support, instead of injuring, the true intriesta of the Protestant Religion and the security of the Esta blished Chu:eh. Lord WYNfORD, before he proceeded further, would beg to ask who began the present discussion ? As to what had fallen from his Noble Friend, he must beg to de clare that that only went the length of saying that the effect of the meesore would he to give to the Roman Ca tholic interest in Ireland such a preponderance as would induce the Protestants to think that their interests had not been duly attended to ; and, therefore, would dispose them to give up their connection with England, ono! throw selves into the arms of the Catholics. The House could not fail to bear in mind that the Irish Protestants must he, under all circumstances, a minority incapable of offering any successful resistance to the e nc:.oarlanients of the Roman Catholics, and they must oatui ally he alarmed at any in crease of power imparted to the Catholics. He fully aereed with those who thought that the language of intimidation should not be used; and he wished that the supporters of the Bill had abstained from the use of such language. None could have gone further in the use of such language than they, for they plainly told the opponents of the 'ilea sur, that if it were not agreed to, anarchy and confusion must he the consequence. To this he adverted from two motives : for the purposes, first, of proving the incon sistency of the supporters of the measure; and secondly, to afford an opportunity for the assertion that the language of intimidation could not promote its adoption i❑ that House, fur their Lordships would not he afixted by the base passion of fear ; but, uninfluenced by fear or hope, or by any conaideration of private interest, think of no thing but the great interests of the country. The Noble Lord then entered into 3n eulogium of the British Consti tution, The Duke of BUCKINGHAM thought that the dis cussion ought pot to be carried any further, for the Bill was not yet lie!ore the House; they knew ❑ot in what shape it might come before them, or whether it would ever rouse before them at all. Ira its present form he could certainly never give it any support, regarding it as a means of committing public and private wrong, by placing tie representation in bands for which the Consti- wno tnixnc navy . ) t Irani British connectiol remain at home, I ~.„t ~ a s 4nrimin , the toki „. ct I 801 , °us , Motitity if the hue- I , fur that wz..t • .5 94 eti•va fe, he would have h 3 i no t yet bot 4,,Jroni t. - r % t 0; 11 4 been in the situ- way,t i ie , übjec , co, e could not get a who had ? s hin spott. f had t.est + ei ..**(n*AV•tit 0 1 - 04 or nomination )SO11113E:IA roi 11 : 41 0 , ..11igtf 3 , 1 • 4 44 1 ' 74 hidotit ids wa in , and part;el.4 the C4ituttitte4intli timt. trA4 Itt r ihe really did not e ,„ y - pne p ; ft ii iss i„ g een moot ttit 'e, such to refuse her w i t h const i, o ti,,,,,i.p r i srA lo ot _ u , s , v • tettee,4 not adopted the ti mr , f ottra i og 4 4 4)4 ,1 t 4litp 3. Their Lard- 1 derogatozy from the • - rule, and it ought matrary t , t i 4pr i sl opjoi,i_v cr .„c om ait t o;„„, f , 2',„,"5, 1 -44 ' mi r+X+ acre ght have been tutiuu was founded upon renreseotatioth reik , mit in silence to jt a m/. ovuiur ,tijNaik , a bring down ber ,„ it maw ef , e tineen t hr rave. 'y ' ; , e r e , a ;,,4 tcz ..intef!so,pa lit certainly have for its ; -11 ;a'' mativex, and he itt~ti 1 1 ,601 ' - - ) r , ,L.Cn":t 3 g.. to be stopped in x , t ~„,, e).. 4 ") 7 0420 4: , * ; he force of these 143-ike - - ;;,4 ; it difficulties with Pe , :le that vl 'esa %)ir): : 3 49t4+1.1404 1 14. 1 0„ept1mP! g that they ntighvf ""„ ' t) : be9t ',V 441'41., 341. ° 4 0 1; ; qt,ill;,s;stin: 7 . .1407., th'en....TrA34 o watcbwitkjea-' vi et h e i , o ere wss tve ttttl "4r those Pk- .ntinue to do sca knd whin x T ictt 4 r Purestatew,of cleat ppitts4 no sort of: stion ttat. pose soy wr..ild i:eely F.:1 1 t.. 0 him _r.e to the ti ii me -s*,,,ortp . r.or 14;:fe .: Cheers...).—lTe thfro eh am be oene•sary Eger.. spy plc:v.of minieeriat plan he ;1)04% t suc'n in concurrence ; bstts ckiveltngl:r irregolat—lied not las attention, +t!;! j o and grantn4 to a rnileubbtrattica of an e.preseicu,,,t,„ efitite the I tist , i-vona on ;14 . 4 . non= entn,,,,, -.4 '!" xcelletzt Measure, Ages of b e i„ l4 . 'a l e 1 e%tic rt. lie ha.l mtver , p,ken i'swol4:ll,4 c;:tier moat unexample d rrp, si 4 th'e Art cf Urk;or,, i" , l* GI all ttglibli4ilnar.,4'.. for de; and raise such a dame in the nation as will defy the whole force of Government to subdue it. If he had done so, he would have done no more than the Noble Lord had done ou the other side, and yet Le would have been told that be was threatening Parliament with physical force from without to direct its proceedings, and it would not have been considered sufficient excuse for him to say, that he il:d not mean to recommend the u%e of physical force, or a lawless resistance to the Legislature.—(Lord Farnham— No, no.) He was glad, then, to hear that the Noble Lord did not mean what his words certainly might imply. But he had really understood that the Noble Lord meant to say that all Ireland would rise against the Government, and laugh at any efforts to repress a brave and united people. But there was no bravery in laughing (Lor Farnham—l spoke of resistance in the House of Com mons.) He was glad of it. He really thought that the Noble Lord had spoken of a lawless resistance on the pat t of the people, and was glad that he was mistaken. Lord FARNHAM, in explanation, denied having said anything like it. He hail never said that there would be a lawless resistance to a legislative measure. What he had said was, that this measure would probably lead to a prostration of the Protestant institutions in Ireland, and that would probably lead to the union of all parties and all classes in the call for a repeal of the Union between the two count' ies, and that it would he impossible to re sist their united voice. tutiun never intended it. There was gnat excitement in Ireland, occasioned by the propoed measure—excitement which, he agreed with his Noble Friend on the cross • bench, was owing to those who had always said to a cer tain class in Ireland—agitate, agitate, agitate. If such language had not been used, he verily believed that at the present moment the danger accruing from the discussion of the measure would have been greatly diminished.— Having stated his determination to oppose the Bill, he begged to state thathis opposition was to the Bill as itstood. Lord GODERICII heard the observations of the Noble Duke oppo‘ite with some surpriae, but not without satis faction, for he felt assured, that eventually the measure Would have the benefit of his support, and that, notwith- standing his present declarations to the contrary. The Noble Duke must have very imperfectly heard the Noble Friends by whom he was surrounded, if he slid net collect from their observations, that those were to be found who would contend strenuously that rotten boroughs were a great advantage, and contributed mainly to the indepen dence of the other branch of the Legislature. It was stoutly maintained that those boroughs were essential to the Constitution, and were peculiarly important, as supplying the means of representation to particular interests that could not otherwise find a voice in the House of Commons —thos e ' Noble Lords forgetting all the while that they were denounced by a positive law. He remembered perfectly well, when the system was brought under the consideratio❑ of the other House of Parliament, that a very ingenious able, and eloquent Member of that House (he meant Mr. Windham,) vindicated the practice in a manner the most unqualified and uncompromising. The practice was then and new as e vident and notorious as the sun at noon-day, and it was treated by Mr. Windham as incident to the posse,sion of those boroughs. A Right Hon. Gentleman then holding the highest situation in that House—that of Speaker-.-end substaluently rit;eed to the Peerage, de nounced the sale of those boroughs as a practice from which our ancestors would have started back with indig nation; that remark was at the time treated as a figure of speech—waa spoken of as a clap-trap—it was denied that the Right Hon. Gentleman spoke his sentitnents— whether or nut they were his sentiments, he at least spoke the language of the Constitutiou, and he said what was congenial to those principles upon which the House of Commons was founded. There was no man acquainted with the history of Parliament who did not know that the practice of buying and selling seats in that assembly was a matter of recent introduction, un known till within the last century, but now it was made o atter of boast, and now no man could go into hich hot Earl GREY--If ever he heard a speech which bad the pernicious tendency to produce the mischievous effects which the Noble Lord himself deprecated, it was the speech of the Noble Lord. The Noble Lord, however, was glad to mix some water with his wine. If his (Earl Grey's) ears did not deceive him, and if his recol lection was not imperfect, he understood the Noble Lord distinctly to state, that the effect of this measure would he, that the Protestants would consider themselves as de serted by that proceeding, and the consequence of that would be a dissolution of the Union—(Lord Farnham nodded assent). The Noble Lord assented to that. WI)), then he would ask the Noble Lord how he was a friend to the Union ? Could he hold out to the Catholics, who, as he said, were discontented, that they would be joined by the Protestants in a call for a repeal of the Union ? Why did he say of the Protestants that they would con sider themselves deserted by hie measure, and that they • would join the Catholics and force the repeal against all the efforts of Government ? No doubt the Noble Lord was a friend to the Union ; but this he would say, that if an enemy to the Union, whose object was its dissolution, had studied what language be could employ the best calcu lated to promote his object, he could not use terms more likely to irritate and inflame, and more adapted to effect his purpose than the language used by the Noble Lord. He felt perfectly satisfied that when the measure of Parliamentary Reform, now under the consideration of the other House, came to be clearly understood, and deliberately estimated by the Irish Pro testants, they would feel that it was in no respect op. posed to their true interests. In the North of Ireland, where the Protestant interest was most firmly established, and included a larger proportion of the population of that part of the country, the Bill, so far from being regarded with jealousy, was hailed with the highest satisfaction, they had cheerfully announced their intention from various parts to promote the measure most cordially. He altogether that it could conduce to the end of dim, solving the union between the two countries, or that it, e degree th e affections of the people '!r... British connectiol • - tf:l v r o .ftlC t 14:k‘ !7f.' 4;11...Ate. society without hearing the prices for wi irouglis were bought and sold. The new Bill denounced the --- to th, the rights and the Adj , ,urned at a Quarter past Seven o'clock. HOUSE OP COMMONS, MARCH 30. The Srrax Ea took the Chair at Three o'clock. Mr. BAYNTUN presented a petition from the city of York, in favour of the Alinisterial plan of Reform. Mr. D. BROWN presented petitions from Galway and three places in the province of Connaught, in favour of the plan of Reform. After a few observations front the lion. Member in support of the prayer of the petition, General GASCOYNE faid, that if the Bill introduced by the Noble Lord did not co to lessen the number of Members of that House it should have his support, but if sixty Members were to be cut off he would oppose it in all its future stages. The House was here summoned to the House of Lords to hear the Royal assent given by Commission to several Bills (for which see the Loids'). On the SYEAKER'S return, Mr. D. BROWN made a few remarks on the nature of the petitiens, after which they were ordered to be printed. Mr. RUTHVEN presented a petition front the county' of Devon, in favour of Parliamentary Reform. After a few observstions from Mr. Btinsos GURNEY, the petition was ordered to be printed. Mr. RUTIIVEN then pre,eated a petition from B an bridge, in the county of Down, in favour of Reform, and praying for the vote by ballot, for an abolition of tithes, and JOT. a shorter duration of Parliaments. Mr. LEADER presented u petition from the City of Kilkenny, in favour of the plan of Reform. The lloN. 1111{MIIKE, then presented a similar petition from Queen's County, and several others, fur a repeal of the Union. General GASCOYNE said, as there were a great many petitions for and against the Ministerial measure of Parlia mentary Reform, it would be ♦ery desirable that an early day after the recess should he appointed for receiving them. Lord ALTHORP undertook that a day would be set apart for that 1 urpose. Mr. 'NYSE said, that however anxious he was to bring the subject before tie House, he should he ready to postpone his motion on the state of the i4h poor, which was fixed for the day after the recess, in order to afford an opportunity for presenting the petitions. county, in the room of Sir Henry Parnell, who had se cepted the office of Secretary at War.—(Load cheers.) SALARIES OF PUBLIC OFFICERS. On the motion of Mr. BARING, the report of sala ries was brought up. Mr. GOULBURN said, that the report contained matter not strictly in connection with the subject which was referred to the Committee, but which, involving a constitutional question of great importance, he should call the particular attention of the House to it, in order that before any law was introduced on the subject it might be fully and fairly considered. The Committee from which that report had proceeded was appointed for the purpose of enquiring into what reductions could be made in the salaries and emoluments of offices bed during the pleasure of the Crown by Ministers of either ''House of Parliament. They had, however, referred to the superannuations and retiring salaries in a manner which involved an evasion of the Constitution, and was most detri mental to the interests of the Monarchy. That Committee stated to the House that it was expedient to repeal the Act which enabled his Majesty to recompense the services of persons holding certain high and civil offices. They recommended a repeal of that Act which gave to his Majesty, the fountain of honour, the right of renumerating and rewarding public servants, and proposed a transfer of it to that House.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BARING would support the principle of the Committee's report. The Act of Parliament, the repeal of which they recommended, gave power to the Crown to grant certain pensions to persons after holding office for two years; and while they admitted that that Act had not hitherto been abused, they did not, he considered, at all trench on the prerogative of time Crown, when they recom mended that any pension thereafter to be granted whilst originating with the Crown should have, like all other grants of money, the sanction and approbation of that House. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—The Right Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. Goulburn) seemed to think that he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stood pledged to every recommendation of the Committee. Now he must set him right in this respect. Ail that he said he should consider himself bound to support was, any re commerplation they might make as to the reduction of the salaries of the Ministers of State. He could not pledge himself to any other parts of the recommendation of the Committee, fur he was not yet even acquain ed with them. Sir H. HARDINGE protested against what be coital, dered an invidious distinction made between officers of the army and the navy in favour of the latter. The distinc- practice as contrary -le usages, . .ights, - tion consisted in thin that while officers of the army freedom of Parliament ; and, after the passing of such a were deprived of their half-pay if appointed to a civil measure, it could no longer be maintained as a part of the situatien, an exception in that respect was made in favour Constitution. The evil was indisputable, but he confessed of officers of the navy. Now this was an unfair distinction he saw no remedy for it hut that total excision which the between two services which were equal. Bill proposed to effect. Here the conversation (hopped. Mr. KENNEDY said, that what had fallen from the The Archbishop of CANTERBURY, for the put pose Right lion. and Gallant Officer, showed the inconve of removing a misapprehension that had gone abroad, nience of entering into a discussion of the report of a would put a question to the Noble and Learned Lord upon Committee which had not yet been wade to the House. As the Woolsack, respecting the days of meeting of that a rnetnte.r of the Committee, he must say it made no such House. He understood them to he Saturday and Monday, distinction between the naval and military service. All it hut *time persons had been led to believe that it was the did was this—it found that the salaries of the naval intention of the Houseto meet on Good Friday. He hoped Lords of the Admiralty were too email, and us it was not the Noble and Learned Lord would have the goodness to quite within its province to recommend an addition twlaia to any salaries it recommended that those naval Lords TheeLORD 4- V01 . 014.0R taltinuch obliged to the should be made an exception to the general rule, de.t.tit Mite' fthrlaireid.hkg'lhins tiL opportunity and be alloweei to ..et tin their half-pay aloe- , wi with the .-- `-i-eertaietly - ..Asaposee t 'Satairday . and sa l ary o f the office, thus raising the office to that amount I 's•site - " - - : ..acir the purpose of of remuneration to which it was entitled. else sitting within the .Si r H. - HARDINGE must still hold the opinion that 'we-etre-of the Court' the C. ..tinction was an unfair one to officers of the art y. . I '',..bettrs" after Sir 0, - - WARRENDER took the same view of the caees -,,,.., as the Hon. Memher opposite (Mr. Kennedy.). • 1 - 41 q ce,"nurts e . at • -i trl Cot on the sir G. IIUPRAY concurred with his Right Hon. ? e '''' t - . Friend (Sir H. Hardinge) that en unfair distinction wax : a f 5 . '-em thet,;,..a., 7 ,,',,t; tt en the two service: , i No one wished new -•';‘444lteerett)ovaa 1 et,i,e de e: to advance the ibterests of the navy, 'el.ttese cutte is to aen''S4-1 , 04 ' nt services to the country he bad bad so many op ° e ~ . i ea -c , tfe 4 caoliable la Mat' -, unities of wiceeesing in his, own profeseionel experi ••ni( • f. -;.,,,! - ... i t .wei; hut he thoeght abet even. the uffirc.r3 of that serv: , ... e.contralatele.l . . eselsttbenteeletee not iike.to see such a distinction made, . ,1 stkte . ''''' .-. ii in their own favour. The Right Hon. and Gal . 1 7 !" 1 4 .., ill 089..cer then went on to contend thet to deprive a 1, .; j ettc e e . r, nsvai or military, of his pay, on his receiving a „. ' fIF T • I civil appointment, was earremely unjust. Their pay was I . 1 ,4 t ; t'-' " I ,.: e tise reward of years of hard toil in the public service.- and k-tite i p,avi L 4c. rf .really thought it very hard it a naval nor niety officer e y te ,rnatligl ' ...teert: considered fit to hold a tivil appo:ntment, he should c } at at the lame moment be mulcted of the reward of ;tethers • ..t.__ e ,'N ''' ; - 30:.0r 40'years of hard service . (Hear, hear .) He. had rni g - t° '' had many opportunities of eppointing, when Colonial .. A in the army and c , -vir eze e ary, many ate ..: es rt.,. . 4 ••:a:sabrti' 4 se ' iaituttions in the colonies, for which they were extremely ,'.-1 tan!iii9iny . well qualified, but lie was prevented, because those parties :.4 II that the did net wish to give up their half-pay. Put ',big was ni 4 -eTtsclW -7 -- economy to the country, for other poreons were appointee ...' had x*lriehr , e to till those places, at higher salaries dial wou:d hose c a. the son-i4++, l been necessary in the cans of officers. . ~.. , 44t . he had "c'""" le , . Mr. 12. GORDON regretted that it *bottle! go abroad btitigpetl'ller . l , on th e statement of the Right Hon. and. Gallant Officer, F : ,at slitlaitee w , uh l Alegi i nch distinctione should lie made between the two . w „alloed to say that service s , The Committee meant to make no such distinc e-tat eatreedile All tlety meant was, to make this exception in . • le". Piiht4 gli fL `e re l vi i . lso Ati tit t t h o e t l - i. le i•g i l: ... t t e ll. • favour of naval Lords of the Admiralty. auma t a ,. It . ! be si l- f his health, tie- Sir C. WETHERELL said, that withnnt discussing ,Iliad only tra say that ite - a,..* . , ef.teyonl the lirngth of • why those sinecure places should have existed, the question ittpresitiag it cfinsbr as to ,whethlrOtee.tga i l nor in a stete . o,f was bad a cbeerspeet beers made by which it was agreed that 4tni gkeat weak:nee La admisiget.* lrealetjone ef hie high it the Crown geese up certain tiineeure places in ito gift; it ' l and have the rightorgranting pensions to retired public ! The Arehbishop of CANTIV-- P aY I believed the officers, under certain circumstances and to a limited ex wbult arnst r leut :if a mistake. ' , s ee. • tent ? If th a t contract bad be e n m a d e , th e recotnitienda. • Earl .(IRkY pratteatted a lietitioii 'from_ Aylesbury, tioa of the Committee, if a:looted, would be a violation of agreedteo,laiiinientop a. , •11 y p u ,_ wee e m . , ,, e w h e r e the it; • for it would take to itself, and front the Crown, that I Vieteri - rieei:led ; it was in favour of t4O , 31:aisterial plan whitli bad been given to it untie- a solemn act of.the legie 1 ...5 . r Reform. • lattice. He teas glad, therefore, th a t th e Ri g ht H on . . . ... - The sante Noeseß EARL preeeeted similar petitions. Gentleman had called the attention of the House to this, from Limerick, Waterford, Olden, Dover, Newcastle- tel ich he must consider, am:. monereliical measure. cod, open-lyne, and two other places. like other measures going through the House, was striking The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition at tie power of the Monarchy.—(Hear.) from Calcutta against the system of local taxation in use o eir. I-10131101 - SE, as a Aleinlier of the Committee, there—from two parishes in Ireland, praying that the must say, that what it had recommended had not been measure of Reform be extended to that eountry--and very candidly r e presented to the House by the Right lion. from Dundalk, for a repeal of the Union. Member for Armagh (Mr. Goulhurn). The Right Hon. The Earl of GLASGOW presented a petition, in fa- Gentleman—he would tint say intentionally—had given a signed by all false notion of what the Committee had reeominended, in your of Reform, from a parish in Somerset, the inhabitants but two. saying that they were trenching upon the prerogative of - the Crown. It was also not a quite correct representation to state that an invidious distinction was made between the officers of she army and navy. The exception to the ge- Dual principle was made on'y, as had been said, iu respect of the navel Lords of the Admiralty. He thought it very unfair to this C o mmittee, that before its report was be. fore the House, it should be made the subject of animad version, and have bard names applied to it. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman (sir C. Wetherell) had referred to history upon this subject ; but if he !made no better use of history, it would be no great loss if all history were burned. Lord STOIINIONT deprecated such imputations of want of candour and fairness in the representations of Hon. Members as had been made by the Hon. Member for NVetminster. 'He was not surprised at his wishing to have all history burnt, for then he would hive only theory to go by.—(llear, hear.) He would be unfettered by any practice or experience. After a few words from Lord Morpeth, Mr. Hume, Sir C. Wetherell, and Sir H. Ilardinge, the report was ordered to lie on the table. TWOPENNY POST OFFICE. Lord ALTHORP, in reply to Sir J. Shelley, said that an arrangement had bee❑ made fur the delivery of general post letters in a radius of three miles round the Post-office without the least additional charge, in_ eluding Belgrave-square, Lambeth, and Bethnal -green. The expence to the country of that impro►etneet would amount to 25,000/. per annum. It was an expence however, which he considered ought to be incurred, and the arrangement was to come into operation o❑ the sth of April. Lord ALTHORP moved for a new writ for the Queen's CAMBRIDGE PETITION. Lord PALMERSTON ruse to present a petition from the University of Cambridge, on the subject of the Bill relative to Reform introduced by his Noble Friend, and now in progress through the House. The petitioners stated that they understood the House was engaged in the c onsideration of a Bill for the amenthnent of the represen tpeople in Parliament, and while they pro f:in s t se o d ti s:f the eirctniurrenc„ in anymeasut e calculated to remedy ac tual abuses and effe c t i tnprovements ren d ere d necessary by the lapse of time, in our instituti o ns, they declared they co uld not but view wi t h appre h ens i on an d a l arm some o f the provisions of the measure, by which they were con vinced that a great chang e would be brought about in the Constitution of the country.—(Hear.) They said that bi A tory and experience showed that every abrupt change was dangerous to tranquillity, to public confidence, and credit.—( Hear) And they4tuted their opinion that the proposed extenion of the elective franchise to great numbers sideration, because su c h a pr i v i lege, if p l ace d i n t h e h an d s sm a l l Property called for their careful con -00: P t e l r it7c )s las of class re!erred to, would be liable, in times of t o exc i temen t, to he exercised less calmly and conside ratelywas desi ra bl e, an d m i g h t u l t i mate l y l ea d us to the honour and pro of the countr y . Th e pet i t i oners praye d t h e :ioiPiemristeY otherh an changes calatnit to proceed with the utmost caution and circum spection; and, in any extension of the elective franchise, to take care to confer th e pr i v il ege on l y on suc h p ersons as i had already an interest in preserving good order in the a and who night h e expecte d to s h ow a d ue regar d fo interests of the country. ;having thus briefly stated the str thee' topinions and prayer of the petitioners, it only remained fcr him to express a hope that whatever opinion Members on one side or on the other might entertain as to the senti ments or object of the petitioners, the moderation with which those sentiments were expressed would recommend he petition to the ieliberate and respectful attention of • the House. Mr. W. BANKES congratulated the Noble Lord on having faithfully and happily delivered himself of this pe tition, after such an extended period of gestation...-- (Laughter.) It was now nine days, not months— (Laughter)—since the petition had been voted in the Senate house. For the delay that had taken place in its presentation it might at first sight appear difficult to ac count. How did it happen that the petition had taken so long a time to travel to town? Even if it had been seat from Cambridge by the slowest waggon, it otorbt to have arrived sooner. With the present improved methods of communication, a petition need not have been longer in coming from Padua, Pavia, or Gottingen.—(Laughter.) He would not undertake to account for the delay, content ing himself with observing, that if it were the case of - a petition with a different prayer, from the neighbouring university of Gower-strut, no doubt they would have had it by the swiftest oinnibus.—(A laugh ) The distance from Cambridge was not great—about 52 miles; "Nine times the space that measures day and night," the period which the great poet allowed as sufficient for tumbling from one world into another, had the petition taken to travel to town.—(A laugh•) Why, by the very longest road, this was only six miles and a small frac tion, or, as it would be termed at Cambridge, six miles and an uncertain quantity, per day—no prodigious rate of velocity, it must be confessed. However, in his opinion, it was in the last stage—namely, from Downing street, that the principal delay had occurred, although the way was nicely Macadamized. But probably a Cabinet Minister carried a drag chain with him when he was the betrer of a petition signed by his constituents, and directed against a measure brought forward by the Government of which he was a member. But omitting the delay that had taken place in the presesentation of the petition, who were the constituents of the Noble Lord? A large anti tespectable body of the clergy of England,—individuals whose opinions were entitled to the utmost respect. One part of the Bill which they looked at with the most jea lousy consisted in the proportion established in the repre sentation of the three countries. It was proposed to add to the representation of Presbyterian Scotland and Catho lic Ireland, while the members of Protestant England were to be diminished. Although Presbyterian Scotland might not send Presbyterian Members to Parliament under the new plan, it would send representatives who bad no ad hesion to the Protestant Church, and the same might be said of Ireland. What would be the effect of this ar rangement coupled with the diminution of the English Members? It could not but be disadvantageous to the Established Church. In fact, the attempts against the property and just influence of the Church of England would become more and more apparent, arid the mainte nance or abolition of that church must depend on the exer tions of its true supporters. Colonel WOOD said that the reason he had voted for the Pecond reading of the Reform Bill was, because he did not think it right to cut short a measure of importance in that stage, and wished for the fullest investigation of the subject. He wits persuaded that if Parliament proceeded with circumspection, the public, which had manifested a strong and unanimous feeling on the subject—(" No, no," from the Opposition.)—Gentlemen might deny the exist ence of such a feeling out of doors, but he repeated that he was convinced, by his own experience and • all the in formation which had reached him, that there was a very strong and general feeling on the subject in the public mind. Mr. WARBURTON believed that the petition correctly represented the opinions of the tesident members of the University, to which the Hon. Member for Marlborough and himself belonged. It would seem from the Hon. Member's speech, that he thought the members of the University good ca'culators of space, time, and velocity. No doubt they were ; as a proof of which he referred to this simple fact,—that on Saturday evening at six o'clock, notice was given of a grace to be brought belbre the Se nate on 'Monday; with a view to this petition, its promo ters knowing full well that the contemplations of the members of the University would not be disturbed by the passing - of the ordinary vehicles of communication on the. Sunday, so that no opportunity was afforded to the non-resident members to go down and take a part in the proceeding. Thus, he said again, the attendance of the non-residents, who had often outvoted the residents on similar occasions to the present (for instance upon the Catholic question), was altogether precluded by tie nice mathematical calculation of the resident members of the University. The petition bore the signatures of 150 re sidents. The number of non-residents who attended was necessarily few, and of those who signed the petition still fewer. Mr. PRAED was at Cambridge a few days before the lintroduction of the Reform Bill, and there then existed a I pretty general desire to petition on the subject, but it was thought better to wait till the Members of the University had ascertained the nature of the measure proposed by Go vernment, and accordingly the design was postponed. If the Members of the University had wished to oppose all Reform, merely because it involved a change, and to main tain every thing that was estahished because it was old, they would have acted like some of the friends of Reform, and petitioned before the details of the ministerial plan could be known. It was not until the Wednesday pre ceding the Monday fixed for the second reading, that the Bill arrived in Cambridge ; and it being thought that the time was too short to allow of a petition from the Univer sity, a petition was prepared as of the undersigned ; but many persons thinking it would be best to submit a peti tion to the Senate, and some declining to sign a private petition, a grace was prepared. Now it might be sup posed, from the statement, of the Hon. Member, that this occurred at a time when there was no possibility of in forming the non-resident Members of the transaction. But first, be it observed that a petition such as this could never profess to be more than the petition of the resident members of the University; and next, it was not usual for non-residents to go down to vote on such occasions. Then as to the impossibility of informing the non-residents of the petition, not to speak of post horses, was there no mail passing through Cambridge on Saturday night? Be sides, some non-resident Members did go down from London. Mr. WARBURTON—O n Iy four. Mr. PRAED—There might have been thirty or forty. What was to prevent that number, or more, from attend ing when the information had been conveyed ? The Hon. Member proceeded to say that a considerable number of the members of the University would have supported a petition couched in much stronger terms than the present, but it was thought better to adopt a modera'e petition, and unite all suffrages in its favour. He had spoken with several members of the Senate, who were very far from telling him that they were opposed to all Reform of Par liament, but who, nevertheless, expressed their grave arid serious apprehensions at the present Bill. Mr. S. LUMLEY believed that the petition was only open for signature 48 hours : perhaps if more time had i:een allowed fur the arrival of the non-resident Members, it might have been carried the other way. Mr. W. CAVENDISII said the petition was not against Reform generally, nor did it oppose the principle of the measure brought forward by Ministers—it was only against parts of the Bill. Lord J. RUSSELL said the Hon. Member fur Marl borough had attacked his Noble Friend very unjustly for the delay that had occurred in the presentation of this pe tition. Every one knew the difficulty that Members ex perienced in presenting their petitions when there was so great a multitude to be brought forward. He had at tended at the House as early as ten o'clock that day, in order to be certain of presenting a petition, and he now feared that he should not have an opportunity. ills Hon. Friend bad represented the petition before the House as a petition against the measure of Reform, but he (Lord John Russell) could not take it in any such sense. The petition was drawn up in the most respectful terms, and it did not charge the measure as revolutionary, or use any of the language which had been applied to it in other cases. He would beg leave to read a part of the petition to the House.—(Here the Noble Lard real extracts from the petition, which set forth that the peti inners humbly prayed that the House would proceed with caution in the changes which it was going to introduce, and take care to preserve the institutions of the country.)— So far from being, in his opinion, objectionable, he entirely, agreed with the petition.—(hear.)--It was a prayer which the petitioners ought to 1 y before the Houso, intrusted as they were with the interests of the church, and with the care of many of the institutions of the country. At the same time he must be allowed to say, that those men who mixed more in the world, and in its commerce, trade, and general affairs, were likely to be quite as good judges of the question as any Members of the University of Cambridge. The prayer of the petition was, that the House should hesitate before it made any abrupt changes. This was a reasonable prayer; but members of a University, who were more used to study in cloisters than to consider what was going on in the world, were perhaps ignorant of what had been going on in that House for the last six or seven years. They did not appear to know that when motions had been made for a change of only two or six Members, an absolute resistance was made, as absolute as that which had been made against the Re• form Bill. When he had ventured to propose to add six Members to that House, the cry was " Good God, what do you wean to add to the numbers of the House, which is too full already ?" When it was talked of reducing the number, it was said, " Good God, don't retrench, Low can you think of retrenching?" Every attempt at gradual Reform had been resisted, and the cry of don't injure or impair, or destroy the Constitution, was constantly raised. The petitienets did not seem to be aware of the struggle that had been maintained upou the subject. Mr. GOULRURN said, the petition proceeded from a body of men the best informed upon all subjects of discus lion in that House, and upon all subjects of learning, of any society in the world. The question before the House was one which could be decided only in reference to its future consequences to the Constitution and institu tions of the country. Those who were well instructed were of all others the best able to decide upon such points, and to lay aside time prejudices that might obstruct the judgment. The Bill dealt with every franchise of time country, except those of the two Universities ; nod there.. fare, if the Universities were prejudiced at all, the proba bility was that they would be prejudiced in favour of a Bill which left theirs the only corporation unchanged,. Time petition expressed an approbation of some of the pro. visions of the Bill, and this wa4 a legitimate expression of the feeling of the resident members of the University ; and, to ascertain the feelings of the non-residents, the way was, not to send an express to London, as the non-resi dents were seittered all over time country, and it was as vain to attempt to gain their sentiments, as to attempt any thing that was impossible. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL complained that the Right Hon. Gentletnan opposite had defended the Univer sity of Cambridge by misrepresenting what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Nottinghamshire. It had turned out to be the case, that the petition had not been sent forth until the Saturday, and on the Monday it was voted, and thus the same opposition had not gone on as in the case of the petition upon the Catholic question.— The petition said nothing more than every respectable so ciety was hound to say upon every constitutional question. It prayed that the Bill might have an impartial hearing, and a fair and a disinterested consideration. ft was said that the University of Cambridge was excessively adverse to the disturbance. of the present proportion of representa tives for the respective populations of England, Ireland, and Scotland. Now the petitioners had professed no such opinion, and it was only the day before yesterday that this had been invented. Some allusions had been made to the University of Gower -street, but he thought that that University had done itself no small honour in abstaining from the question. The University of Oxford, moreover, had not thought proper to put itself forward as an adversary of his Majesty's Government. This did them great honour, and it must be recollected that Ox ford had shown its consistency of principle by a change of its representative. The notions respecting the causes of Reim m were singular, and he could not but allude to the opinion of one of the Hon. Members for Boroughbridge (Mr. Attwood), who had thought that the fall of the House was principally owing to iN having refused to take into its consideration the question of the currency. He approved of the tone of the present petition, which did nothing more than recommend caution, and an attention to the well-working of the Constitution. Sir CHARLES WETHERELL thought that bib Learned Friend had not dealt fairly or kindly with his Alma Mater. It was highly to the honour of the Uni versities that they never had sent forth any petitions upon party questions, but where the discussions of that House involved important constitutional questions. On those oc casions, the two Universities bad always petitioned as they had done upon the Catholic Bill, and as the Univer sity of Cambridge had done upon the pr..sent occasion. The fact of Oxford not having petitioned against the Re form Bill was sufficient to show that the two Universiti e s aced independently of each other. The Noble Lord bad talked of men studying in cloisters, and of their being less competent to form opinions upon constitutional questions than Members of that House ; but he (Sir C. Wetherell ) would refer the Noble Lord to many illustrious names of members of the Cambridge University, whose opinions upon practical questions of a constitutional nature were of the highest authority. He would only refer to Dr. Paley, whom he might style the Blackstone of Cambridge. Paley had written the most learned and most generally profound dissertation upon the British Constitution ; and he was one of those writers of a cloister whom he supposed the Attorney-General and the Noble Lord would not think worthy of attention, because he had not mixed extensively in the world. He could claim distinctions fur many other gentlemen, and he km. , w that the gentlemen of Cambridge were as good judges of the Constitution of the country as any who embarked in the contentious scenes of the House of Commons. If he wanted a fair opinion, he should say, " Give that of a man who is removed from all party contests and from political strife." The Bill was an attack upon the State—it involved the security of the Church, and the safety of all the institutions of the country ; and upon these grounds the petitioners expressed their alarm, and their petition was fully entitled to the greatest respect. _ _ Mr. PRAED, in re!erence to an allusion to a Memb.,r who would wish to have a more intimate connexion with the University of Cambridge, said, that if he were the per son meant, he could only say that he had formed no ex pectation of the sort. Mr. ATTWOOD said, that if his Majesty's Attorney. General asserted that the Reform Bill had not had the fair consideration of the house, he grossly libelled the House, as he had b,fore libelled -.- Mr. SPRING RICE rose to order. Mr. DAWSON spoke a sentence, the object of which we could not ascertain in the gallery. Sir J. SEI3RIG H T spoke a sentence, which was cheered by Vie House, but the purport of which could not be caught by the reporters. The SPEAKER said, that he had been on the point of rising, in order to observe, that if the Hon. Member for Boroughbridge were not interrupted, he hoped that he would end his speech by something palliative of the lan guage be had used. - Mr. ATTWOOD said, thathe would certainly drop the word libel ; but certainly the lion. and Learned Gentle man had always been in the habit of using very strong language, and of applying it against every body of the highest dignity in the country. It copld not be forgotten that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, in one memorable speech, had applied the strongest language against the late and the present King, and since that time, against an in dividual of the highest office, he had made use of expres sions which had been reported in the newspapers.—(Cries of " Order, order.") He would proceed no further upon this topic, since be found it to be unpleasant to the House. The argument which he (Mr. A.) had used, was that the existing system of representation worked well, and that the alleged ill wor:sing of the system of Government and the evils suffered by the people, were not connected with the representation. 1 Mr. G. PRICE, as an old member of the University, expressed his satisfaction at the course which that learned body had pursued in reference to the proposed measure of Reform. The petition against the present ' proposition of Ministers was the more remarkable, as hav ing come from those very persons who agree , ' with the Noble Lord opposite on most other subjects. He would take this opportunity to state, that the feeling of the bar in favour M . Reform by no means prevailed to the ex tent that had been supposed : in proof of which he might mention, that of the forty-two birtisters on the Home circuit, to which he belonged, but thirteen had signed the Reform petition, whereas twenty-nine had objected to do so, and but four or five of the subscribing parties were connected with the University of Cambridge. That Uni versity, in his opinion, had performed its duty in a most portentous crisis, and he:the consequences what they might, it at least would enjoy the proud consciousness that it had nil been found wanting in the hour of danger to the Con stitutkn.—(llear.) After a feW words from Lord MOOPETW, the petition, which was ti um the Chancellor, Masters, a n d S c h o l ar s o f the University of Cambridge, was th e n brought up. Lord PALMERSTON, on moving that it be printed, denied that he had wilfully delayed presenting it to the House. In fact, he hid received i: just that day week, beenC consistentr with the of th e i and hal attended it d a ily f or th e purpose of fulfil ling the wishes of his con s tit ue nts, but it so happened that an opportunity of doing so had never been af fordedigbt, when hitn it , ex ,s t: o eit tl a h t an a il ii )r l e ia x v t e retieY lue hour respect due to the petitioners to have presented it. Indeed, his being enabled to lay it on the table even now, was entirely owing to th e indulgence of the House. He could scarcely regret the delay, however , as , had it not eccurred, lion. Members would have been denrivtd of the pleasure they had received from the e laborate pleasantry o f hi s Hon. Friend the Member for INlarlborough, who had favoured them with so many facetious impromptus that he had em ployed seven days in concocting.—(Laughter.) With re• sped to what had been said relative to the discrepancy o f opinion on this subject between the University of Cam brif ge and himself, he should merely observe, that he never that this petition had originated believed that by honestly performing his duty as a public , l e "..a . i i hi s nt i ii i i ( c t"a e ek , e n tn' t : i i i n ; l of these whose signatures man on a great national question, i.e should forfeit the confidence which his constituents had reposed in him. (H „ r ) At the same time the Hon. Gentleman opposite a h s o s m ert h i e ng was principally indebted for his were attached to it bad formerly opposed him on the policy of Catholic Emanciptiwn. 31r. GOULBURN remarked, tira the petition Certainly appeared to Lint to have rea•eived much lees respectful treat, Mel 11 the 2 whit quer admi whic atten pose.c }ion. How Cons an a/ posec tvuul aekn, into the c doub stead lutioi for t] their Ar 4 portu prive the p that eaten recur stood and t stitut to eN, no dc lity, Het, it cei and I tired form act c reixso of re ilutv rept( at pr cont( Woul guar; yet 4 eft He con, In