The Sun. — London, England, 1842-04-05 00:00:00

'•or.ap- +►~ " Feringees" in their retreat in order to get rid of him. He, however, retains the hostages and prisoners, for whom he is likely to demand a large ransom. His father, Dost Mahommed, is strongly guarded, in order to prevent his escape. from India. There is great talk of "our great friend" Shah Shooja-001-Molk being im plicated in the late insurrection, which appears to have been exclusively directed against the foreign infidels. The only offset that we have to the unfortunate events above recounted, is, "that Atta Mahomed and Sufter Jung, with a force o f about six thousand men were de feated on the 12th of January, in the vicinity of Can dahar, by the troops under the command of 'Major-Ge neral Nott. Official accounts have not yet been re ceived. The result of this engagement has produced a very favourable effect in Affghanistan. By the latest accounts from Ghuznee we learn that the insurgents were in possession of the town, but that the garrison under Colonel Palmer were in safety in the citadel, having a plentiful supply of ammunition and provisions. The following extract from a private letter contains a list of the names of those who are in the hands of the Affghans. It is, however, to be observed that Captain Souter, of the 44th, is reported to have been killed when attempting to make his escape from a fort nearJellalabad. The officers and ladies who are believed to have escaped massacre, but are prisoners in Mahomed Shah Khan's Fort at Logman, are first (the cause of all our disgrace), Elphinstone, Shelton, 44th ; Lawrence, 11th Cavalry ; Troup, 48th ; Mackenzie, Madras army; Aiffierson, 59th ; Boyd, 65th ; Waller, Artillery ; Pot tinger, Envoy ; Mein, Eyre, Artillery ; Ladies Sale and M`Naghten, Mrs. Anderson, Mrs. Trevor and six children ; Mrs. Waller, Mrs. Mainwaring and one infant ; Mrs. Boyd and one child, Mrs. Eyre, ditto, and Mrs. Sturt ; Hostages at Cabul, are Conolly 20th, Walsh and Webb, Madras Army, Airily, Buffs, Drum. mond 3d Cavalry, Warburton, Artillery, remained at Cahill with the sick, Drs. Berwick and Campbell. In confinement with some Chiefs, Griffiths, 37th ; Souter, 44th ; and Steer, 37th ; with 8 Europeans 44th Foot. It is feared, and too truly, that not another officer is saved. The corps which have been annihilated are the 44th Foct, sth Light Cavalry (two squadrons), sth, 37th, 54th Infantry, with a troop of Horse Artillery, and all the colours in the hands of the enemy ! The Sepoys were chiefly killed by intense cold. Hands and feet swelled to an immense size, and rendered them incapable of moving. God help the poor fellows, and may such another calamity never befal us. The follow ing may be considered a correct memorandum of the number of officers who have fallen Artillery 11. M. 44th Foot 24 sth Light Cavalry ll . sth Infantry 37th 54th Different Departments 2O Colonel Wild made an unsuccessful attempt to force the Khybar pass with four native regiments. The affair appears to have been badly planned. It was attended with the loss of about 150 mien. Sickness is also very pre valent in the Colonel's camp. By the last accounts there were 600 men in hospital. Major-General Pollock's brigade must long ere this have formed a junction with that under Colonel Wild. The former consists, besides Native Regiments, of her Majesty's 9th Foot and a de tachment of European Artillery. It is, hoWever, very much doubted whether the Major-General will venture to attempt an advance on Jellalabad until he is joined by her Majesty's 3d Dragoons and 31st Foot, who with. several Native corps, and a detachment of Horse Artil lery are now moving to the frontier. The laSt letters received from Jellalabad state that the troops there are in high spirits, and have collected suf ficient provisions to enable them to hold out until the Ist April. The massacre of the Cabool force has aroused the energies of the supreme Government. A manifesto has been issued by the Governor-General, calculated to allay the fears of well-disposed natives and to check insubordination on the part of the disaffected. With reference to the loss of Cabool, his Lordship declares that, he " regards this partial reverse only as a new occasion for displaying the stability and vigour of the British power, and the admirable spirit and valour of the British Indian army." Orders have been issued for augtnentiug the army by adding a tenth company to each native regiment of the line at the establishinents of the three presidencies. Other measures have also been taken which will make the entire augmentation amount to about 30,000 men. Shah Soojah, though left entirely to his own resources, still holds out the Bala Hissar against the rebels. The following is a list of the passengers who will pro ceed this morning by the Honourable Company's steamer Victoria to Suez :—Mrs. Gordon, and 2 children, Mr. and Mrs. F. Martin and child ; Mrs. Vibart and 3 chil dren ; John Vibart, Esq. ; Mr. and Mrs. Young and 4 children ; Mrs. Courteny and 2 children ; Mrs. Stack and'2 children, Major and Mrs. W. Sterling and 1 child, George S. King, Esq. ; Captain and Mrs. Fair, and 3 children, H. Gordon, Esq. ; Mrs. Major Outram, and child ; Mrs. Henderson ; Lieutenant. Colonel and Mrs. Home ; Mrs. Stewart, Mr. J. C. Stewart ; Mr. Le Bas; Madame Barrott and child; Lieut.-Colonel Cavaye ; W. Bell, Esq. ; Captain Pearson; G. Polleafen, Esq. ; J. Brown, Esq. ; J. Rogers, Esq. ; Lieutenant J. Bedford; Lieutenant Jones; Ensign Finey; Monsieur Barrott; Major Forbes; E: B. Mills, Esq.; John Patterson, Vsq.; Capt. H. P. Lawrence and child; Mr. I. de Silva ; Lieutenant 11. Layard ; Captain D'Eyncourt ; P. F. Robertson, Esq. The following parties have engaged their passage by the Steamer of the Ist of April:— Mrs. Montgomery; Mrs. Col. Manson; Mr. and Mrs. 4. D. Campbell; M.C.S.; Mrs. Pottinger ; Mrs. Parsons ; a child, aged five years, son of Mr. IVronghton, M.C.S.; Capt. and Mrs. Ord; Miss Kichares ; Capt. and Mrs. Prescott, and one child ; Mrs. Major Osborne, and two children ; Col. Paty ; Mrs. Boaden, and chid ; Major H. C. - Cotton ; G. J. Morris, Esq. ; Mrs. Major Carpenter and child ; Capt. and Mrs. Roberts ; Lieut. and Mrs. Eastwick ; Major Osborne ; J. Llewelyn, Esq. ; Col. Joaquim Joseph Saviour Henry, and Lady ; Capt. Young ; Capt. Rutherford ; Mrs. S. Brooking ; Mr. A. Gouger. BRITISII IIsDIA. There have been some very serious disturbances among the Madras regiments at Secunderabad, in the Nizam's country, in consequence of the Court of Di rectors having ordered that the allowance of battu, latterly granted, should be discontinued. The soldiers of some of the best regiments refused to obey their officers, stating that it would be better not to be in the service than to starve, or have their families starve, as the allowances granted on removing them 320 miles into the Nizam's country were now refused. The mutiny has been put down, and many of the soldier are now in confinement. The other parts of India are comparatively tranquil, but great excitement prevails in different quarters. The inhabitants of Delhi acid other towns in that direction have begun to hide their money and jewels as if they apprehended danger. The -Nepaulese seem occupied with their own affairs. The winter season is not one of alarm or excitement there. The old King of Oude had made arrangements for resigning the throne, but he has been disunded by his chief Miniter from effecting his purpose. Some confu sion is expected in that country. The Siekh expedition into Thibet has been routed, and its leader, Zorawur Singh, slain. A treaty resem bling that of the Cabool Generals, was made with the Chi n ese, who took the arms from the Siekhs, and then allowed them to die of cold and starvation. A number of men, under a leader named Bustee Ram, effected their escape through the Byansee Pass, so as to reach Al month. The leader and 130 men succeeded in obtain ing the protection of the British authorities there, and have been since sent on to Loodianha. Forty of them remained in the hospital. Numbers have perished. The expedition of Tharawaddie to Rangoon has failed, and,he and his court have left that place. His troops have lost 3,000 men by their works there, and they are disappointed, for all their great hopes have failed. The King of Siam is described as much alarmed lest Thara . vraddie should obtain arms and ammunition from the English in order to attack his dominions. CHINA. The latest intelligence from China is to the 17th of January. The British expedition there appears to be .waiting for the reinforcement from England and India. Nevertheless, a sort of hybrid warfare was carried on. The British Naval Commander at Hong Kong was con tinuing the seisu:e of the Chinese junks. The Chinese at Canton were busy in making the defences of that river as effective as possible. They had three Dutch engineers, for whom they sent a junk to Java some months ago. It is not stated if those engineers belong to the Dutch army, although it is presumed that they do. Their names are Van Scholte, Van Braam, and Van Schroek. The Chinese Emperor is represented as incensed and alarmed with the proceedings of the foreigners. Some of the ieports from his lieutenants in the provinces he had read " with fast falling tears." Great preparations are stated to be, made in the province of Pekin, which is under his own imperial jurisdiction, to resist the invaders, who are expected there. Large forces were collected in the neighbourhood of Ningpo, and as Sir Hugh Gough thought more troops necessary in order to maintain that position, the Admiral despatched a ship to take about 80 - Europeans from Iloag Kong. ILeM. ship Cornwallis had proceeded from Hong Kong to join the expedition. The Clio had arrived at Macao. In Amon, on the 24 of January, and at Chusan on the 24th of December, the dates of the latest letters, all was quiet The steamer Madagascar has been destroyed by fire ; the crew, having taken to the boats, landed on the Chinese coast and ha ve b een saved by the interposition of the llong merchants. 'There was some alarm m peeting t. e two iron steamers, the Ariadne and Me dusa. but intelligence has arrived of their safety. The ship Viscount 31;‘,Jbourne, Capt. M‘Kerlie, was lost be tween Singapore and Macao. Som e of the crew reached Singapore, from whence an armed vessel has been sent t o Sambas in quest of the re ma i n d er , who are supposed to, have proceeded thither. pp The pnstcript of a Bii`mbay letter announces, that an express had reached that nw' from Madras wi t h the the frigate Cambria n , havi ng news. of- the arrival of board Lord Idlenborough, the ii,,w Governor-General. There has been nothing , astir worthy of notice since the capture of Chusan antrehinghae. It is supposed to be Captain Nias's intention to proceed up the river in the st. Amer merely to reconnoitre. Whatever his purpo se may be (they write from Macao, 17th January) his ap pearance will most certainly cause considerable alarm, and thereby affect the market for imports as . regards the 7144tri , whilst the English, acting also with the inten -4 covering their property a t will purchase teas risk,igher rates than they would otherwise pay not much chance of the shipments of tea falling off as long as the port rem a ins open ; we have sent, borne nineteen millions since July Ist, and before February we shall off is a small supply gat five or six more. This about compared with formir years, but i` there is a sufficient quantity still in Canton to bring up the report to the average export. It only remains, therefore, to see what the operations of the forces are likely to be in the neighbourhood ; but no one expects a renewal of the blockade with such men in the neighbourhood of Canton as Major-General Burr, Captain Nias, and Mr. Deputy Superintendent of Trade, Johnson. The British merchants are truly in aer lor able condition. • SQUADRON NORTHWARD AT CHUSAN. Wellesley (flag-ship), 72 ; Blenheim, 72 ; Blonde, 42 ; Pelican, Hyacinthe, Modeste, Columbine, all 18 • Algerine, 10 ; Starling, 6 ; Hon. E. C . steamer Nemesis, Queen, Phlegethon, and Sesotris. At Amoy—DrUid, 44 ; Cruizer, 18 ; Pylades, 18. On her way to Chusan, Cornwallis, 72, and Jupiter troop ship. At mouth of Canton River—Herald, 26 ; Alligator, 28 ; Nimrod, 18 ; Cameleon, 10 ; Clio, 16 ; Royalist, 10 ; Young Hebe, 4 ; H. C. steamer Houghy. The trade continues undisturbed, whilst several seizures have been made of Chinese junks and trading vessels in the estuary of Canton river. No decline in the high rates for teas. Exchange at Bombay on London, 21 to 2 1. Freights -70 to 75 to Great Britain.—Nothing load ing for the Clyde. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE. _ Arrivals at Bombay from London,2B; February, Francis Spaight, and Rachael. From Liverpool, Hin dostan, Corea, Cambridge, Chieftain and Lancaster. From Plymouth, Token. From the Clyde, Margaret Bullock, Lanarkshire, and Carnatic. Departures from Bombay, February 28, for London, the Cambrian and Tasso. For Liverpool the Merton, Clara and Maria, and Alexander Grant. For the Clyde, none. For China, the Wild Irish Girl, Error, Caledonia, and Royal Saxon. SUPPLEMENTARY NEWS. CHINA.—The Waterwich, arrived at Calcutta, brings accounts from China a few days later. The Canton Press of Jan. 1. says—" Nothing new from Canton. The Chinese continue strengthening the fortifications of the town and river, purchasing guns in great number. The British au thorities do not interfere. Canton letters of Dec. 31 de scribe commercial affairs at zero. The Vansittart left on the 3d for Calcutta ; the Carleton, for London, on the 30th of December; and the Earl of Belcaris on the same day for Manilla. The Herbert Compton was to leave for Bombay on the 15th January. Trade is para lysed by the want of a circulating medium. The ex change on London has advanced to ss. per dollar, and on India to 225 rupees . per 100 dollars for Government bills. The China expedition is in want of money. The Hong merchants consider as eventually certain our pos sessing this country, by gradual conquest, as with India. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 4. The SPEAKER took the Chair at a quarter before Four o'Clock. Certain Reports from the Poor-law Commissioners, were brought up, and laid on the table. WEYMOUTH ELECTION. Mr. P. M. STEWART brought up the Report of the Select Committee appointed to investigate the merits of the petition of Ralph Bernal, Esq. and W. N. Christie, complaining of an undue return for the Borough of Weymouth and Melcombe Regis. The Com mittee reported that the Hon. George Augustus Frederic Villiers, commonly called Viscount Vil liers, and George William Hope, Esquire, had not been duly elected at the last election to serve in this present Parliament as Burgesses for the borough of Weymouth and Melcombe Regis, but that Ralph Bernal, Esq., and W. N. Christie, Esq., had been duly elected, and ought to have been returned. The Committee fur ther reported that they had altered the poll taken at such election, by striking off the name of John Bridle and others, who had not had any right to vote at the said election. The Report was then brought up, and the Clerk of the Crown was ordered to attend to amend the return. GLASGOW AND REDBURN BRIDGE ROAD. The Glasgow and Redburn Bridge Road Bill was read a second time. ARDROSSAN HARBOUR. The Ardrossan Harbour Bill was read a second time. BRADFORD WATERWORKS. The Bradford Waterworks' Bill was read a third time and passed. DROGHEDA HARBOUR Th© Drogheda Harbour Bill was read a second time. THE TARIFF. Mr. ORD presented a petition from Newcastle-upon- Tyne, against the proposed export duty upon coals ; also, a petition from the same place against any alteration in the duties upon leather. Mr. BUCK presented a petition from the leather manufacturers of Great Torrington, against any altera tion in the duties upon leather. Also a petition to the same effect from the women employed in the glove trade at Great Torrington. Lord MARCUS HILL presented a petition from the carriers and saddlers of Eveshatn against the reduction of the duty on leather. WICKLOW ELECTION. The SPEAKER announced that the petitioners, who had complained of an undue return of members to serve in Parliament for the Connty of Wicklow, had intimate .1 their intention not to proceed with the petition. Captain GORDON presented petitions from Aber deen and other places, against the importation of foreign cattle. Mr. WAKLEY presented a petition from an indi vidul in the county of Hereford, of the name of Samna Millard, praying that the system of inspection of private lunatic asylums might be extended to county asylums. The Hon. Member said that he had also been intrusted with a petition from a place' in Cornwall, against the income tax, whi.th he was afraid he could not present according to the resolutions of the House. The SPEAIiER intimated that the petition could not be presented. THE TARIFF. Mr. ACLAND presented a petition from the mer chants and shipowners of the Port of Fowey, in Corn wall, against that part of the new tariff affecting the duties on timber. Mr. G. STRICKLAND presented a petition from the corn gealers and millowners of Preston, in Lancashire, complaining of the proposed scale of duties on imported flour, stating that they should not be able to compete with it. MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. Mr. HARDY presented petitions from several places in Yorkshire and Lancashire, against any further grant to the College of Maynootb. Mr. V. SMITH presented a petition from the Anti- Slavery Society of Belfast, praying that the House would take measures for suppressing the slavery which existed to a frightful extent in British India, Lord ELIOT presented a petition against the new Poor-law. NOTICES OF MOTION. i ~~ Mr. WALLACE gave notice that on Thursday, the 18th of April, he would call the attention of the House to the evidence taken in the Report of " The Select Committee which was appointed to inquire into the ad ministration of the law in the Supreme Court of Scot land in the year 1840," and to the state of the juris prudence of Scotland as connected with the aforesaid Court—and to move that leave be given to bring in a Bill to reduce the number of Judges from thirteen to nine, by abolishing one of the co-ordinate Courts of Review into which that Court is at present divided.—Friday, April 19. Also that the correspondence respecting the resignation of Lord Carehouse, formerly a J u d ge i n the Supreme Court for Scotland, and now retired on an annuity for life, as the same was circulated by the s aid L or d Care house and the late Lord Advocate for Scotland, and was by them sent to many Members of both Houses of Par liament, be laid on the table of this House on Thursday, April 7. Mr. T. DUNCOMBE gave notice that on Thursday next he would move that any rule or order of the House precluding the presentation of petitions on the subject of any taxes or duties under the consideration of the House be suspended during the present session. Mr. WM. O'BRIEN gave notice that he would move for leave of absence to the O'Connor Don. Captain POLIILLL gave notice that he would more for leave to bring in a Bill to enable Coroners to admit bail in cases of manslaughter. LICENSED LUNATIC ASYLUMS' BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to Le committed. DUBLIN POLICE BILL. This Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed. . - THE TARIFF. Mr. RAIKES CURRIE wished to put a question to the Right Hon. Gentleman, at the head of her Majesty's Government, upon this subject. When the Right lion. Gentleman had brought forward his financial proposition, he had stated in the most explicit manner that it was the intention of Government to stand or fall by the adoption or rejection of that measure. The ques tion then which he (Mr. Currie) wished to ask was, whether the Right Hon. Gentleman intended to uphold the main principle of the tariff—namely, the reduction of duties on articles of general consumption, and more parti cu'•arly on articles of food—provisions and cattle—with the same determination as that with which he intended to uphold the income tax ? Sir R. PEEL said, that he did say that when her Majesty's Government brought forward such an impor tant question as the tariff, for the relief of the country, it was brought forward as a Government measure, and on the whole responsibility of the Government. He con ceived that was a measure of the greatest importance, and that the income. tax was the foundation of it. He had spoken generally of the income tax as the foundation of the tariff. He . stated that in that there were modifications which he proposed to make, and with respect to the tariff there were many alterations which he might wish to make, and he must reserve to himself the power of doing so. (Cries of " Hear, - hear.") He had brought forward those measures, financial and commercial, with a sincere desire to do justice be tween thf producing and consuming classes of the country. Subsequent reflections had confirmed him in the opinion that, on the whole, the measures were good, and it was his intention to uphold the general principles of this_Bil I. Lord JOHN RUSSELL wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether the alterations to which he had referred were yet ready to be submitted to the lions°, or, it not, when they would be ? Sir R. PEEL said he should inform the House of any important alterations which he proposed to make. He conceived it was necessary to com - municate with different people, as it was desirable to have the views of different parties. Those commu nications were still going on. He would, at as early "a period as possible, communicate his alterations to the House, and he thought he might say that, on Monday next, he should be able to lay it all before them ; but he ' thought that the general principles of the tariff would be adhered to. FORGED EXCHEQUER BILLS' BILL. On the Order of the Day for bringing up the Report on this Bill it was ordered to be re-committed. The House then formed itself into a Committee, Mr. and he had no doubt that the other gentlemen, to be GREENE in the chair. appointed as Commissioners, were equally deserving of Clause 1 having been put, confidence. He was satisfied the Government would not Mr. BLEWITT suggested that an addition should be propose any person who was not deserving of confidence ; made to the clause, exempting parties from serving on at the same time he would wish that something like the commission, who should refuse to attend. expedition should be sought to be attained. Consider- The amendment was agreed to, and the clause was ing how much the parties, whom the measure af ordered to stand part of the Bill. fected, had at stake, it was of the utmost importance Clauses up to 4 were then agreed to. that this inquiry should be brought to the earliest con- On clause 5 being proposed, elusion possible. While impresiing this on the House, Sir THOMAS WILDE said he had an alteration to he was anxious to guard against its being sup suggest in this clause, and also on the subsequent one ; posed that be wished to embarrass the Government and it might perhaps save the time of the House if he on this measure. These were the whole of the amend stated the reasons that induced him to propose the seve- ments which he wished to propose. With respect to the ral alterations he had to offer. This clause, as well as publication of the evidence, of course as the Government every other, should, he thought, be read with reference could not have any desire to screen any persons, to the speech of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, when he could not see any objection to it. He was only de the Bill was brought in. He must own that he was some- sirous that the case should be brought back to the House what surprised and disappointed that the alterations, he in such a form as to put it in possession of all that had had taken the liberty of suggesting, should have been sup- happened in the matter, so as to enable the House posed to open some objections to the Bill. In proposing to determine with justice what was best to be done. them he had not the slightest intention of embarrassing the Therefore, he thought it necessary to submit to the course the Government wished to take, nor was he aware House the amendments which he had proposed. that any of his amendments would have the effect of The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said he thought the in any way obstructing the measure. The present clause difference, if difference there was between his Hon. and related to the duties imposed on the Commissioners. It Learned Friend and himself, was only as to the mode of was, of course, of great importance that there should be no carrying his suggestions into effect. The object of the question raised hereafter as to what was the intention of Commission, which had been issued by the Govern- The Legislature with regard to those duties ; what- ment, was for the purpose of obtaining information ever it was intended they should do ought to be clearly as to the mode in which parties became holders of the defined. The interests embraced by the present bills. They knew that fraud had existed for a long measure were very important, for it involved the ruin time ; fraudulent Exchequer -bills had been circulated ; of many respectable persons, and though among the this had gone on for a considerable time, and there was number of those persons there might be some possessed reason to suppose that some parties who had been con of such fortunes that the loss of forty or fifty thousand cerned in their circulation might have been cognizant pounds would not have that effect, yet the measure of the affair. The object of the Commission was there was of vast importance. The object of the alteration fore to ascertain the history of those bills, and to trace he should propose in the present clause, was the carving the inquiry from the time of their being issued, to the out the intentions of her Majesty's Government, and no time of their getting into the hands of those who now other. He had attended to the speeches made when the claim compensation. And he would now remind the Bill was brought in, and as all discussion, or expression House that they were not enforcing any legal right, of opinion with regard to the bill-holders, or as to the but they they were coming to ask Government to give justice of that House indemnifying them, was then depre- them compensation in r es p ect o f t h e f orge d Exchequer cated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he did not offer any bills which they hold. The object of the Commission remarks on that occasion, though some statements were was to ascertain the circumstances under which those made which he thought gave a colour to the case which did parties became possessed of the bills. He entirely not properly belong to it. It was distinctly stated that agreed with his Hon. and Learned Friend, that it was not intended to delegate to the Commissioners any no part of the evidence should be withheld power or authority to offer any opinion as to the bills ; from the public. He thought, on the contrary, they were solely to confine themselves to matters of fact. that the public should be informed of the whole of it, Among other observations made when the Bill was and he could assure. his Hon. and Learned Friend that brought in, it was said the House should be cautious in there never was the slightest intention, on the part of indicating any opinion upon the propriety of paying the Government that it should not be wholly laid those forged public securities, because it may involve before the public. The Commission would report matter of great importance to the public. The ques- fully to the House the entire of the evidence as well tion was, whether the loss had been sustained for as the inferences which they had from that evidence. want of sufficient control on the part of the public His Honourable Friend proposed to introduce a officers, and upon that principle, which he con- clause to compel the Commissioners to report the ceived to be just, if a person had sustained whole of the evidence taken, and to lay it before a loss on account of a principle, the principle ought to the House. Now he (the Solicitor-General) could sustain the loss, and not the person who is made the conceive special cases in which it might not be judicious victim of his fraud. It was desirable, for the to make evidence public. He could conceive that there sake of justice, that a report to be made under might be cases in which such ' a course would the authority of the Bill, should show the House prevent a full investigation of the subject. whether any such principle or not should come But, at the same time, the suggestion of his Hon. Friend under discussion. He understood the Bight Hon. Ba- was not liable to so much objection, that if the House, ronet at the head of her Majesty's Government to say, and his Learned Friend thought it adviseable it should that it was extremely important the House should stand part of the Bill, he should press his opposi expresses no opinion on the payment of bills, bec a us e it ti on t o it. H e wou ld, h o wever, remind his Hon. Friend would involve an opinion as to the consequences that and the House that if all the evidence were to be might arise from an issue of forged public se- reported, it might interfere with a complete in curities. He (Mr. Sergeant Wilde) could not quiry ; and in his opinion it would be better conceive it could be so, because the whole investiga- to leave the matter to the discretion of the Com don would be so conducted as to elicit the truth of missioners, as in all ordinary cases. There was never the whole case, and nothing more. The sth clause the slightest intention on the part of the Government directed that the Commissioners should by all such that the matter should not be fully investigated, and means, as to them may appear best, proceed to inves that every possible information upon the subject should tigate the truth with respect to the holders of not be given to the House. His Hon. and Learned Friend the documents, and that they should from time had also suggested that a clause should be introduced to time report to her Majesty's Government what for the purpose of compelling the Commissioners to they should find concerning the issue, circulation, de- hear counsel and evidence on the part of persons urging posit, and possession of such documents; and how the claims hgainst the Government. He did not cer holders of such received the sums upon them whether in tainly think that such a course would be conve exchange of other bills, or for money, what was the rate nient. Every holder of one of these bills might then say of purchase, and whether the owner of such documents ao the Commissioners, that "he was the best judge of received those sums of money in due course of business; the course to be taken relative to the inquiry —that they also other matters to make known to the Commissioners. were bound to hear his counsel and his witnesses, Thus, this amendment would put the House in possession for the Parliament had so enacted." Now of several important facts, which the words of the Bill, he believed that in no former case had the as it now stood, would not do, for they only charged that Legislature made it imperative on Commissioners to hear Commission "to report what they should find." No doubt parties by their counsel. They had always been the Right Hon. Gentleman who drew up the Bill, allowed to hear, at their own discretion, any par thought that those words would include the furnishing ties they might think fit. In his opinion, it of evidence to that House as well as the conclusions ef would be better, after they had appointed Commissioners, the Commissioners. But the two legal gentlemen whom to leave them to conduct the inquiry as they might he had proposed to be on the Commission, would at once please. His Hon. and Learned . Friend had said that see that the present provision would not extend to the the holders of the bills could not be interested in creating furnishing of the evidence to the House ; but by the delay. Now that might be true of the greater part of amendment which lie (Sir T. W.) proposed, the evidence them •, but would his. Honourable and Learned Friend and also • all other matters which the Commissioners say that there were no parties whose interest it should find, would laid before the House. In adopting might be to thwart the real object of the inquiry ? this amendment the House:would act on the disposition that Was there no party who might be interested in having was expressed by the Right Hon. Gentleman in the truth kept back, or in preventing the Com introducing the Bill, which was to give the most missioners from arriving' at its discovery ? He ample information to the House, to collect all would remind the House that the Commissioners the circumstances connected with the transaction, would not have to decide upon the matter they would and to prosecute a most rigid inquiry. But while the merely have to inquire, and the House might afterwards Bill as it stood did not depute the Commissioners to re- adopt whatever course it might think proper. He port their opinions on claims of Exchequer-bill holders, hoped, with regard to that clause, that his Hon. and his (Sir T. W.'s) amendment would. It was of Learned Friend would not press the amendment. As to the greatest importance that all the evidence the other clause, referring to the publicity of the in connected with it should be laid before the House-- The _sieiry, there was no objection to it, if his Ho subject was of the very highest importance.—(Hear.) nourable and Learned Friend could point out He had no doubt, therefore, that his amend- any convenient mode of carrying into effect. When meat would be adopted, as it would supply the Hon. and Learned Gentleman said it was important to tho House all those minute and practical details that it should be ascertained how the bills were tt hich were intended to be furnished by the Right Ho- made and issued from the office, there could nourable Gentleman opposite, but which, nevertheless, be no doubt that it was- important that it should be the Bill as it now stood would 'not do. He known how they got into circulation ; but if he meant was the more confident in his expectation that the present Commission should proceed in as he was sure that no honest person could desire conceal- the same manner as the Commission that had just ment, so far as lie was concerned in this transaction.— reported to the House, if he said that it was to go over (Hear, hear.) He should also propose an alteration in the same ground, then ha (the Solicitor-General) could part of the preamble. As it now stood, it was suggested not help thinking that it would be imposing a duty on " that the Commissioners should inquire into the means the Commission which it was not the intention of her Ma whereby such documents came into the hands of the jesty's Government to impose, and which seemed) o him not parties." He should propose to alter these words into to bear expressly on the question. There was no objection " the means whereby such documents had been made and on the part of her Majesty's Government to the fullest issued." Now, in order that the case might be laid as inquiry into the mode in which the bills were made and clearly as possible before the House, it was necessary that issued from the Exchequer-office ; nor was there any ob the House should know whether the fraud which had jection to the amendment, except that it introduced into been committed, notwithstanding the exercise of due this Commission a duty, already delegated to another, care and caution, and under such circumstances that no which had made its report, and laid its information care or foresight for the future could by possibility pre- before the House. Unless the amendment were vent the recurrence of such fraud, or whether the fraud altered, he should not be precisely prepared to agree occurred in consequence merely of a defect in the system to it. As to the proposal that all the holders of of management, which might be remedied for the future bills should be ascertained and placed in a schedule by due care and caution, but unless the House were made by the Commission, there might be no difficulty in aware how the person committing this fraud had been ascertaining the holders of the bills in a week or two, enabled to make these bills, they could not form any and there was no objection to those bills being scheduled; judgment as to whether the fraud had been occasioned by but it would not be right to confine the inquiry to some cause inseparable from the making of these secure- such bills only as might be so scheduled as there might ties, or whether it had been merely the consequence of be other bills, and they m.glit be thus doing an injustice. an imperfect system. He (Sir T. Wilde) believed that He had no objection to the bills being scheduled, the fraud was not occasioned by any fault of the present with - a proviso that such other bills might be officers, who had merely acted on the same system that added to the schedule as might be required. their predecessors had followed, but that it had been With regard to the other parts, lie hoped the Hon. and occasioned by a defect in the system. If it should turn Learned Member for Worcester would not press his out that that on which the public had hitherto depended amendment to the House. There was not much difference as a test of the genuineness of these bills—if it should between them. He agreed it. the spirit of his Hon. and turn out that the official seal, although locked up, Learned Friend's observations, that the result should be was yet deposited in such a manner as that persons made as public as possible, and that the House would could get access to it ; that, he thought, would go to form its own judgment on the result of the evidence, prove that a want of due care and caution had been the and with that view he hoped there would be no difficulty cause of the fraud. He was aware that there had been in framing the clauses when the proper time came. a cernmission, which had already presented a Report ; Sir R. 11. INGLIS said that h e wou ld at t h e present but they h a d no t reporte d a ll t h e ev id ence presented to t i me a b sta i n f rom giving any opinion upon the case them. They only reported the evidence which they which had been so largely entered upon by the Hon. and considered relevant to the subject matter of the inquiry t ethird—tha t and se second portions which r e o h Learned Member opposite. H e th oug h t t h at t h e H on. and on which they were engage d. B ut t h ere m i ght be evi- Learned o Member eote, hwas with ri regard in th t e o first h right dente which, a lth oug h i rre l evant to that inquiry, might be very re l evan t t o t h e present inquiry, lated to the holders appearing by their counsel and agents, he and if so, he should wish the House to be in possession Vj e ezd o to t , and w w o i u t l i c t i r n e ot give t his consent to l that amendment. of it, in order that they might exercise a sound dis- and Learned Member, bu s t p t e e t did o t agree wiethar im e w t r at th o e o i cretion as to the manner in whi c h th e y wou ld d ea l was to be lost.—(Hear, hear.) He had no int eres t no t only with the holders of these bills.—(Hear, hear.) If those in Exchequer bills, but not even in the persons holding them; persons had acted honestly and fairly, and had given but he thought it most cruel that there should be any delay on full value for the bills which they held, the public the subject ; and, if not inconsistent with the forms of the ought to sustain the loss which had been occasioned by House, he hoped her Majesty's Government would exercise the misconduct of a public officer. It was known that influence which they must possess in endeavouring to refl. that the individual called Rapallo held bills to the der the proceedings as speedy as possible—( Hear, hear)—if possible, to bring up the report in the present Session. Some amount of 100,000/. Now he thought it should be thing ought to be done as soon as possible to relieve the bona an instruction to the Commissioners to inves- fide holders, who, he believed, constituted the majority, from tigate the claims of those persons, and to place the embarrassments and difficulties in which the late frauds them in a separate schedule, and that they should had placed them. be protected against the competition of holders Sir R. PEEL really thought there was no substantial dif who had dishonestly got hold of the securities. ference between the two sides of the House as to the course He then proposed to add a clause which he understood that should be pursued by the Commissioners. Neither was was subject to some objection—namely ' " that the bill there any valid objeetion to the Commissioners appoi n t e d. holders described in the schedule s h a ll have liberty to The Hon. and Learned Gentleman opposite had borne full tes, attend to be heard by themselves and their Counsel before timony . ti? the acquirements, ability, and integrity of two of the Commissioners, the Earl of Dev_o_n r and Mr. Stephen. In select the Commissioners, in such manner and at such time or times as the Commissioners shall order and had endeavoured Commissioner M l 'sr of e'velitfr e , et t i he til o o r ve i Tm l e i nt direct." Of course the Commissioners, like every chosen gentle m an a t o o ste h e o r clear was in no degre e yi con o n n e'cted with t any ad other tribunal, having the power of controlling the class supposed :be personally w interested in this question, while course of proceeding. The Hou se wou ld o b serve he had, at the same time a good deal of financial knowledge. the extended nature of the inquiry proposed by the fifth He (Sir R. Peel) therefore thought that the House should clause. It was an inquiry as to the manner of possession ; repose full confidence in the personal ability of the Com under what circumstances the bills were received, whether missioners. With respect to the production of ;the evidence, in exchange or not ; what was the rate of interest, and he quite agreed with the lion. and Lea ned Gentleman, that so on. Many of the persons concerned were entirely the ess Report of the Commissioners would be unsatisfactory tin unused to legal proceeding s , en ti re l y i gnorant what tey also gave the evidence to the House—( Hear, hear) — questions should be put in order to arrive at a and he ( Sir R. Peel) would assure him that it never was in given conclusion. Nothing could be more reason- the contemplation of Governmen_tetooewmitahohtddtheer r iden a ce ke a t s t able, he thought, than that all suc h persons should tahgateneral principle d v . The l!oh tl n. G t bear upon person w s who e , n if they have the assistance of an atto rne y or o f counsel wereson motenoofwthe yet nce e i h e ad been i n office; but he (Sir R. Peel ) - in examining and cross-exami n i ng w i tnesses. thought that Lconsideration of that nature could, even as the The fifth clause required the Commissioners to report Bill now stood, operate with the Commissioners ' so as to in. their inferences and conclusions from th e ev id ence d uce t h em to withheld those p a rticulars ; and if any proof adduced before them. Unless then all those forms, should appear of negligence on the part of the Government which were adopted in 'Courts of Justice, were a officers, in the making or issuing of bills, he could not see how waste of time, justice required that the parties, the Commissi oners cou ld withhold that information. The Bill whose commercial existence was at stake, should be heard i appointed the Commissioners, with "a r view to discover the before that report was made. Her Majesty's . Government truth and inquire into the case t toiftneevteoyh reportl , or owner __ of to her Majesty could have no motive for haste in bringing the matter eery documen t , and r making,fom time to circulation, and deposit to a conclusion which would not operate in a ten-fold of such bills." 6 Now the holder of one of those bills might degree upon the parties affected by the Bill. There think i: necessary to show that no vigilance on his part could could be no reasonable objection, therefore, on have enabled him to take precautions to secure him against a the ground of delay. Justice appeared to him loss. In such a statement a number of facts might be intro to require that every man should be heard. (Need relating t o ot h er persons, but it would be the d u ty If any were to be heard, all must be heard. In an inquiry of the Commissioners to allow the holder to go into all the like this, to refuse to men with 30,0001. or 40,0001. details of the case; still he (Sir R. Peel) did not think it ne at stake the advantage of counsel, if they h ce e s io ga r r c y i t l o insist that every partic.:e of ev t i o d o en t c t e o should be laid thought fit to require seemed to him as if they were upon Commissioners iitiet% House. He thought t i e t ve o r ugh y particle of theime pqat ive desired to do what Sir Samuel Romilly said in answer i ts a principle e lcr h t t o t r h e e p report whole of the evidence ou gh t evidence. to Lord Eldon and another judge, that they wanted be reptrted, but he could easily imagine a case in which it " hasty injustice instead of temperate justice." He might be of the utmost possible importance that certain por (Sir T. Wilde) could no t conce i ve who were tions of the. evidence should not be given to the public ; the persons that could o bj ec t t o hi s propos iti on , or w h a t therefore' he thought the Commissioners should be interest could be affected by it. Another clause which permitted to exercise a discretion on the subject. As a gen he meant to propose was, " that the said Commissioners eral principle, the whole of the evidence ought to be produced, are hereby required to meet for the prosecut i on butrertainly th e: G overnment an d the Commi ss i oners oug h t to of the inquiries dir ec t e d b y this Act, at such ibe permitted :to exercise a discretion on the subject. They ought , not to and at such places as the Lords' Corn- to be compelled by law t!ipublish every particle of the evidence. He agreed with hi u s t lion. ost Friend who had last missioners of her Majesty's Treasury may appoint ; and the said Commissioners are hereby required t I sg:tkesotbat xund e podition was of the ever m y consequence, and d ta o r n d to report upon the several matters and things hereby re- by counsel.-_( A objected lau h t . o )t givingwas we party kno a wn right ho vi t ' o m b u e ch ' the ferred to them, within months from th e p ass i ng of this speeches of — ociun se l ;lengthened out legal proceedings, and he Act, or within such further or other time as the said Lords' thought •that the g i v i ng every party a right to be heard by Commissioners of her Majesty's Tre asur y s h a ll name counsel or atto rne y, wou ld by, no means te n d t o expe dit e th e and. appoint." He (Sir Thomas Wilde) had perfect proceedings. The Commissioners were gentlemen of high confidence in Mr. Steven ,and the Earl of Devon legal attainments, and Le thought that on that subject the THE SUN, LONDON, TUESDAY MORNINGr. APRIL 5, 1842. House might fairly trust to their discretion, while great in convenience and delay mightarise from giving every one inter ested an absolute and legal right of being heard by counsel. He believed that each side of the House had the same object in view, namely, that the inquiry should be as full and cows plete as poistble, and that all the evidence on the subject should ' be laid before the House before they were called upon to decide. Sir R. INGLIS explained. Lord J. RUSSELL agreed with the Right Hon. Gentle man, that both sides of the House had but one object in view on the present occasion. With respect to the first point which had been urged by ,his Hon. and Learned Friend the Member for Worcester, it appeared that the Hon. and Learned Solici tor-General had agreed to the introduction of the proposed schedule, so that on that point there was no disagreement. Then with regard to the second point, the publication of the evidence, the Hon. and Learned Solicitor-General, and the Right Hon. Gentleman at the head of the Government, both agreed that the evidence gene ally ought to be reported. He (Lord J. Russell)sagreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman in thinking that it might be excessively inconvenient to have every particle of the evidence published; but he thought that the Treasury rather than the Commissioners should decide that point. He thought it was the duty of the Commissioners to report every particle of the evidence to the Treasury, and then leave it to the Treasury to decide if there were any special reason why the evidence should not be reported to the House ; therefore on that point also there was no material disagree ment between himself and the Right Hon. Gentleman. Then with regard to the other point, namely, whe ther or not the parties interested should have a right to be heard by counsel before the Commissioners. He did not think that the answer given on behalf of the Go vernment was quite satisfactory. Tke established mode of ascertaining the truth and justice of a case was by hearing counsel—(Hear)--and it never was made a reason for re fusing to hear counsel that it would occupy an inconvenient time. When, last year, they were discussing the propriety of preventing delay in the Court of Chancery, it was not said that the length of time which counsel occupied was a reason for not allowing them to be heard. Indeed, it was believed in the courts of law that the arguments of counsel were of great use in embling the Judges to come to right decisions, and he thought that the same assistance ought to be had in the present case. It was possible, as the Learned Solicitor-Ge neral had said, that some persons might be interestedin causing delay, but he thought it improbable that they could attain their object by these means. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said it was satisfactory to find that the difference between the present and the late Solicitor-General was reduced to a single point.—( Hear.) He thought it was important that the whole of the evidence should be reported to her Majesty, and that there should be a discre tion in the Government to withhold from general circulation such parts of the evidence as it might be inconvenient to pub lish. He did not agree with his Hon. and Learned Friend op posite (Sir T. Wilde) as to the necessity, propriety, or benefit of giving every person an absolute right to attend and be heard by himself, his attorney, or counsel, before the Commissioners. It was impossible to doubt, that as far as any evidence or com ments upon that evidence were calculated to throw light upon the subject, the Commissioners would do justice to the public. His Hun. and Learned Friend compared this proceeding with what took place in a court of law or a court of equity, and the Noble Lord seemed to think that there was an end of ill argument, especially from a lawyer, the moment he alluded to the supposed benefit of having the aid of counsel in any suit in a court of law. But if the Committee considered what was the (refi nery course of proceeding in any court law, or in a commis sion, and would take the trouble to compare with those two forms of proceeding what might take place under the present in ,uiry, they would immediately perceive the absolute necessity of leaving a discretion to the Commissioners, instead of making it imperative upon them to hear counsel in every case. In a court of law or equity there was always some single matter, some question raised between the parties, which was considered the issue between them, and to which, therefot e, the evidence and the speeches of counsel were or ought to be directed.— ( Hear.) Where a commission issued to dispose of certain funds 2mong claimants, as, for instance, in the case of the confisca tion of property :n France, every person made . a distinct claim, and the only questions were, whether the party was entitled, and if so to what amount ? But he could conceive no limit to the present in,uiry, as proposed to be conducted. Every per son might suggest a different mode of inquiry, and would have a right to go before the Committee, and raise every possible issue on every stage of the investigation. The holder of an Exchequer bill, conceiving that he had important evidence to give, might desire the Commissioners to follow his suggestions, and if they refused, might make a motion for a man damus in the Queen's Bench, in order to compel the Commissioners to hear his witnesses.—(Hear.) If ever there was an inquiry which, by reason of its multifariousness —an inquiry confined by no plea but wandering int ) every spe cial matter—ought not to be admitted, this seemed to be that sort of inquiry. To leave to the Commissioners, on their own responsibility to entertain any questions, and hear counsel upon such points as they, in the discharge of their public duty, should think important to the inquiry—to give to every person the right to go before the Commissioners, and call evidence to any extent, and to raise questions without limit, not con fined, as in the case of law or equity, by previous pleadings or any specific issue, but wandering into an inquiry as to the origin of the fraud—es to the carelessness of several per sons for a period of six years—extending even to the mode of the issue of this bill, and the way in which they might have got into the market—it seemed to him that all this would con stitute an inquiry without any sort of limit ; it would be but opening a field for expense--he would not say litigation—he would not disgrace the term by calling it litigation. Such an inquiry would be a very multifarious one, and lead to no end. It would be an inquiry by no means creditable to the wisdom of those who had proposed the present measure. Colonel SIBTHORP wished to know whether those Com- missioners or clerks were to be paid—(Laughter)—and if they were to be paid what was the amount? If they were to re ceive salaries, he should be happy to see a clauie inserted in the Bill to the effect that those persons to whose negligence and want of caution the transaction now under the consideration of the House was owing—he meant comptrollers and others— (Laughter)—should be amerced in the amount to De paid to those officers. He knew that in many eases where a man had been found guilty of some trifling act of negligence, he was punished in various ways, sometimes by fines, and at other times by imprisonment; he could not see, therefore, why great public servants, who were often paid most handsomely for their work, should escape that penalty which, in his (Colonel Sib thorp's) opinion, ought to be inflicted on them, and which, in cases of minor misconduct, were almost always enforced. He thought it right to make these observations, though he himself never did have an Exchequer bill, and he would take care that he never did take one.—( Laughter.) He hoped that those who had misconducted themselves would be punished, and amongst those he must include the Noble Lord who sat oppo site, and the Right Hon. Gentleman the late Chancellor of the Exchequer. He trusted his lion. Fiiend would give him some information on these matters. Sir H. PEEL said, of course the clerks of the Commission would receive such remuneration as thsir services merited ; with regard to the Commissioners, they had undertaken the matter vvithout any stipulation as to remuneration ; but he thought that question should be postponed till they saw what would be the duratior of the Commission. He must, how ever, say, that if they invited professional men of high cha racter, whose time was their property, it was too much to ex pect them to devote that time without due remuneration. But they had undertaken the duty without any stipulation; and as to the clerks, he was sure his Hon. and Gallant Friend would not object to allow them sufficient remuneration. The amendments were then in part agreed to, and the clause, as amended, was ordered to stand part of the On clause 6 being put, The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said (as we understood), that. he had no objection to adopt the suggestion of the Noble Lord opposite ( Lord John Russell), and to leave it to the dis cretion of the Treasury to publish such portions of the evi dence as they might think fit. Mr. WA LEY was sorry to hear that the amendment of the Noble Lord was about to be adopted. He thought it better for the public to trust to the discretion of the Commis sioners as to what evidence was to bo published, than to the Treasury, seeing that the Treasury was a party concerned in the inquiry. A report made by the Commissioners would be more satisfactory than one made entirely by the Administration. lie trusted the Noble Lord would see the propriety of altering his suggestion. Lord J. RUSSELL said, before he made the suggestion to which the Hon. Gentleman alluded, he had understood it to have been clearly stated that it was not the wish of the Go vernment to screen an)bod?.--( Hear, h ar)—on account of any part of their cond uc t. fhe only reason he could con ceive for any of the evidence being withheld was this—that some part of it might be, in the opinion of the Government, in jurious to the future circulation of Exchequer bills. On a question of this sort the Executive Government was the best ',arty to decide ; the Treasury was responsible for the due management of everything connected with the public credit, arid on it the onus ought to lie. If they suppressed any part of the evidence unduly, they would also be responsible for so doing, while the Commissioners would not be so to the same degree. For all these reasons it appeared to him that the dis cretion and the responsibility ought to be with the Executive Government. Had there been any wish to screen anybody, he should have supported the publication of the whole of the evidence without suppression. Sir R. PEEL said, the production of evidence ought to be taken as a general rule, but the withholding evidence ought to be an s exception, and the Treasury ought to be the party responsible far withholding it. It would not be a valid ground for withholding evidence, that any parties in power, or in office, might be compromised by it, nor did he foresee any such ause fur the exception arising. But they should not make it com pulsory to produce all the evidence, as some parts of it might be injurious —such as that which might refer to the mode in which the Exchequer bills were made. Sir THOMAS WILDE agreed with the suggestion that had been made; at the same time, it was essential to the justice of the bill-holders that the evidence should not be withheld altogether. The clause, as then amended, was agreed to. Clause 7 was agreed to. Clause 8 was postponed. The 9th, 10th, 11th, 12th, and 13th clauses were agreed to. Sir THOMAS WILDE, returning now to his postponed amendments in clause 8, said no doubt that the House had confidence in the `Commissioners. The House and the public also bad confidence in the Judges, yet the Judges did not de cide causes without the assistance of counsel; if they did they would soon lose that confidence ; therefore, confidence in the Commissioners was no excuse for not framing the Bill in such a manner as to prevent the possibility of a mistake, or an er roneous proceeding, in disposing of cases in which the whole fortunes of men were at stake. The Exchequer bills were a public security in which men had no legal remedy, and differed from the remedy which attached to the issue of a bill of ex change. All possible indulgence should be,given to the inno cent holders in the present case. They only asked for the as sistance of counsel in laying the evidence before the Commis sioners, which was to decide them in making their report. Men who were acquainted with law knew that the mode in which evidence was produced often decided a case—to elicit this evidence general intelligence and common sense were not sufficient; practical experience and professional knowledge were indispensable. Why then should the House refuse the holder of a IEII for 1,0001, having no other legal remedy, that legal assistance which a man would have in recovering a debt of 405.? The issues were! o those which his Hon.and Learned Friend had supposed them to be. If the bona fide holders were not to be allowed to go into the evidence, they lost the whole el the case ; but it was said that the Commissioners would go into the question. But how were they to do so. and what were they to know of the case? They might as well say, leave the cas s to the Judge, and he will decide upon it. Why, it was only the other day that the Judges refused to him depositions in any case which they had to try. But what are the bill holders to do? Why, his Hon. Friend said that they were not to call evidence before the Commission. Who were to be able to judge what witnesses should be called so well as they? They might talk about the long speeches of counsel, and the time that they would occupy; that was nothing new to him ( Sir Thomas Wilde), and he had often heard gentlemen of the bar who were complained of for their long speeches, when they got to the Bench were just as had themselves in complaining of the speeches of others ; but the fact was, that every one thought all speeches flat and dry except those which related to their own ease. But this, after all, was nothing at all, when compared to the important and pressing nature of the business. He had no objection to extend the inquiry, as his Hon. and Learned Friend proposed, unless the House were prepared to refuse those parties the privilege of laying their case before the Com missioners by evidence, with the edvice of counsel. As to the objection on the ground of delay, he cauld say, from what he knew of the parties, that their cases might be disposed of in a few moments. Some of them were bankers and traders of the highest credit ; and amongst them was one gentleman, who transacted business to the atnetm , of sixteen or eighteen mil lions a year, arid his case would occupy but little time. The question really was, whether those persons were to have the power of resorting to the means which the law and the Constitution recognised for eliciting truth. Every one an• acquainted with the administration of justice was aware that the impression of evidence on the Judge and jury was very different after hearing the observations of counsel, and he was convinced that much time would be saved by conceding this claim. It was said that these holders bad no legal right to have their claims investigated ; that was certainly true ; but if ever there was a claim founded in justice, the claim of an innocent bolder of one of these bills was so founded, and if these persons had no legal remedy, that was their misfortune. He trusted that the Committee would not be led away with the idea that per sons would arise from no one knew where, to take up the time of the Commissioners by claiming a right to be heard, or with the idea that a multitude of issues would be raised if counsel were employed. The only question that could be raised would be—first, it the holder of the bill had received the bill properly ; and, secondly, if the authorities issuing the bill had exercised proper care and precaution. He should therefore move that the clause be brought up and added to the Bill. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said that the observations of his Hun. and Learned Friend slid not remove his objections to the clause proposed. His Hon. and Learned Friend's argument went to show the right on the part of the bill-holders of being heard by counsel. No doubt they had such right, but the question was, if they would leave the decision to the discretion of the Commissioners, or if they would allow any person who chose to describe himself as an,owner of an Ex chequer bill to attend with his counsel and witnesses. But the clause would not attain the object in view. How could the attendance of witnesses be secured? There was a clause giving the Commissioners the power of sum moning witnesses, and no doubt, on any party applying to the Commissioners, they would exercise that power. But if they left the summoning of witnesses to the discretion of the Com missioners, surely they ought to leave the question as to the em ployment of counsel to their discretion also. His Hon. arid Learned Friend's speech seemed to say that they (the Govern ment) were opposing the attendance of counsel in all cases ; but such was not the case; on the contrary, they (the Government) contended that they ought to leave the decision of the question entirely in the discretion of the Commissioners. What he objected to was the taking out of the hands of the Commis sioners all control over these proceedings, and compelling them to hear witnesses in every possible case. When the Hon. and Learned Gentleman spoke of the power of the Commissioners to report the result of their inquiries, it should be recollected that they had no power to make any final decision—that would rest entirely with the House itself. On these grounds, there fore, he must object to the clause proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. The clause was then brought up. Sir R. INGLIS said it appeared to him that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman desired to give to the claimants an advan tage which eas not sought by the Government, and on that ground he thought the proposal objectionable, The Commis sioners would have no power to decide that such and such a sum was due to a particular person, but would merely report to the Queen, and thrraigh the Queen to the Parliament, that such and such had been the mede of issuing Exchequer bills, and such and such persons had been the holders of them. He could not see why an advantage should be possessed by the holders which was not possessed by the Government. Lord EBRINGTON was understood to say that he thought both the Goiernment and the claimants should be heard by counsel, as they might think fit. Lord J. RUSSELL said that he concluded the Government would have the pawer of being hea; d by counsel, and he thought it would be wrong of the Government not to have recourse to professional assistance, while the claimants availed themselves of such an aid. Mr. W AKLEY said that the parties at all events should be heard by counsel, as was the case upon all other similar oc casions. Mr. C. BULLER asked why the House should depart from the usual course of proceeding, and not allow the evidence ad duced on the various questions to be brought under the Com missioners to be sifted by counsel. It was only by the proper sifting of the evidence that the real state of the facts would be really come at. Sir R. PEEL said the question was, whether or not they would trust the investigation to the Commissioners, who were most calculated to elicit the truth—whether or not they would confine their instruction to them, or give a right to every patty to be heard by counsel ? Of the Commissioners, one had been a Master in Chancery, and must be a good judge of the nature of the inquiry which was best calculated to arrive at the truth. The other Commissioner, Mr. Sergeant Stephen, in addition to his long practice at the bar, had served on the Commission to Inquire into Real Property, and was, therefore, well fitted for conducting such an inquiry. It was generally admitted on both sides that by their integrity and professional attainments, they were well fitted to conduct the inquiry, and meet the ends of justice. If it was necessary that counsel should be heard on the part of the holders, it may be also necessary to hear evidence on the part of the Crown. ( Hear, hear.) he duty of the Commissioners was to lay the evidence in the most satisfactory manner before the House, and he thought it better to leave the matter in the hands of the Commissioners, who, he had no doubt, would call counsel if it was necessary. Sir THOMAS WILDE said, that if the evidence was legal, no. Judge in the land would have the power to refuse, and why should Commissioners have that power ? It was said that Parliament wat to decide on the evidence, but who was to decide what the evidence was to . be ? He did Think that would be a full, fair, and satisfactory way of proceeding. It might be necessary for the holder to propose the evidence of bankers, bill-brokers, and stock-brokers, touching his ownership of a bill. Who was to decide which of these was to be selected, and when? In his (Sir T. Wilde's) opinion, the holders of bills should be represented by counsel, and so should the Treasury.—(Hear, hear.) Let the. Treasury state their objections openly to the bill-holders, and let the holders state theirs by counsel. Was it just to prevent a party from bring ing forward any evidence necessary to make out his case? if it was not just, why withhold those opportunities? Would not counsel be heard before a Committee of that Howe? The COmmissioners being ignorant of the case of the parties, and of the case of the Government--being ignorant whether the case arose from negligence, or from circumstances neces sarily connected with such, could not know where to send for information; it was not safe to apply to either side, and whatever they heard, ought to be heard in the presence of both. Was the ordinary mode of proceeding in all otherj cases to be withheld in this? It was illusory to say that all would be dime that was riot ; it was not Parliamentary— whatever was proper to le done ought to be expressed in the Act. It was not safe to leave a clause of doubtful con struction. He trusted, with regard to the permission to be heard by counsel, that the holders of these bills would not be prevented from having recourse to the ordinary means of justice. Mr. V. HARCOURT was anxious to do justice to the par ties concerced,and he was st ill more anxious to do justice to the puhlie. He would not willingly be a party to bringing the quest fun before the House with a prejudice against either the holders or the public, and from the strong opinion which had b'een expressed by lion. Gentleman opposite that justice could not be done unless counsel attended on behalf of the bill-holders, he felt convinced that if the proposition were not acceded to, the question would come before the House with a prejudice against the public that full justice had not been done towards the holders. The Hon Gentlemen opposite had said that full justice could not be done unless counsel attended to protect the interest of the bill-holders. Under these circumstances, he hoped the Government would give way, and permit the clause to be brought up. Although, if he were a holder of Exchequer bills he should be perfectly satisfied to leave tl.e whole question to the discretion of the Commissioners, yet, considering the Learned Member for Worcester as the repre sentative of the bill-holders, and having heard what had fallen from that Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he thought it would be the least inconvenient course to accede to his proposition. The only inconvenience that could arise from doing so wt,uld be delay, and for that the holders would be answerable, and by it they alone would be the sufferers. For his own part he thought there would be ample security in trusting to the dis cretion of the Commissioners, and therefore he should vote with the Bight Hon. Baronet if the question came to a di vision, but he had thought it right to say what he had said to guard against a prejudice which he foresaw was likely to arise. Mr. KEMBLE wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether it was intended that the investigation should be open to the public? Sir R. PEEL repliedtthat was intended to be left to the discretion of the Commissioners themselves. Mr. KEMBLE said, that having undertaken to present a petition from some of the holders of the bills, he had no hesi tation in advising them not to press to be heard by counsel. There was one reason why he thought they would suffer in. jury from such a privilege, namely, that if counsel were heard for the holders they must also be heard for the Treasury. The Government would thus be placed in direct ho s tility t o th e b ona _fide holders.—( Hear, hear.) As he could not see, therefore, what advantage the holders would derive from being heard by counsel. he would feel it his duty to vete against the proposal. Mr. BARING said, he thought the parties had a right to a full and fair inquiry, and full opportunity of Lying all the facts before the Commission ; on the other hand, he thought the public had an equal right to the examination of witnesses, in order that all the circumstances of the case might be fully made known. He believed, notwithstanding all he had heard, that that object would be far more effectually accomplished by both the Treasury and the parties being heard, than by leaving the matter entirely to the Commissioners. He did not under stand how it was possible to hear counsel on the part of the Treasury, and to refuse the bill-holders the same advantages.— (Hear, hear.) He thought that no steps should be taken in these proceedings without counsel on the part of the Crown, to defend the interests of the Crown, and counsel, on the part of the bill-holders, to defend their special interests, and he hoped Government would not oppose the employment of counsel on both sides. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL said there was no clause in the Bill requiring the Commissioners to have counsel on either side. As the Bill stood it was quite in the discretion of the Commissioners, and it was not to be supposed that they would allow the Crown to be heard by counsel, and not allow the bill-holders.—( Hear, hear.) The Bill was framed in such a way as not to compel tha Commissioners to hear counsel in any case, and yet to leave it open to them to admit cou nse l on both sides, if they thought it expedient. Mr. HARDY thought, that instead of leaving it to the Com missioners to say what parties should be heard by counsel, it would be better to declare at once that all parties should be at liberty to call in professional aid as they might think proper. In case the Commissioners should at any time refuse to hear counsel, if that power were given to them, this inconvenience would follow—that the House would subject itself to the ne cessity of hearing the complaints of parties hereafter. Mr. HAWES said that be did not think it advisable to leave it to the Commissioners to decide what parties should or should not be heard by counsel. They should then be told by those parties, whose counsel had not been heard that the inquirieshad not been fairly and fully conducted. The inquiry should be conducted according to the ordinary forms in such cases, and the parties should be at liberty to De heard by their counsel in all cases in which they might think proper. Mr. W. AT WOOD thought the Government ought to pay the amount of those repudiates bills to the owners, provided they held them in the course of honourable business, but con ceding that much, it was certainly the duty of Parliament to examine into every circumstance which might throw susticion on the manner in which the holders of those hills came by them. Ihe holders were men generally of the first respectability, and men who courted investigation. He could not see, therefere, why they should refuse to allow them to conduct their case be fore the Commission in the manner theythoughi most advisable. • Mr. RIGBY WASON knew of only one objection in tha matter, and that was the delay to which real bona fide holders might be subjected, by persons who were not bona fide holders, coming forward with witnesses, and having them examined at great length by counsel. He thought they could meet that ob jectim by d.rectiog the Commissioners to report from time to time. An How. MEMBER observed, across the table, that there was a provision to that. effect. Mr. RIGBY WA SON then wanted to know what became of the objection.—( Cries of " Divide.") The Committee then divided, when there appeared— For the Amendment ... Against it Majority —l3 The remainder of the classes were then agreed to, with some verbal amendments, the House resumed, and the report was ordered to be brought up t.,-morrow. INCOME TAX. On the motion of Sir R. PEEL, that the House resolve itself into a Committee of Ways and Means. W l° Mr. BLEWITT said the Ri g ht H o n. Baronet had P; Ls oft a tax which had been received with universal execration 41,910 i country.—( Great laughter from the Ministerial bencheseli; oti Right lion. Baronet had atte m pt e d to make it palate west holding out to the public the hope of certain ametidlefl4o the tariff. A general feeling, however, prevailed , tbe'_.,4 Right Hon. Baronet would not be able to carry those.l;l, ments, and remembering what hid b ee n said by a Difeh',,.i s )0' in another place, that if proposition was made in 1,41 did not coincide, he and his party would be the first to turs r l it . out, he (Mr. Blewitt) thought there was some ground . fo_ opinion. He had seen in a newspaper a statement or tee Deal I Member for Lincolnshire, to the effect that that Noble told him that if he were to oppose the proposed ta rtff I would be modified and amended. He thought, therefaresartro they ought to know what alterations were likely to be flec see out before they entered into the' question of the tox —( H ar, hear.) The Right Honourable Barone „ e a. • ' I mated his deficiency at two mi lions and a half, an . d I° L ffe I that he proposed a tax which would realize 3,704. 0 % / Jus " (Mr. Blewitt) could not consent to place such a large: n do• at the disposal of the Government without any certain "i f tie part , "• J • lent. He would, therefore, move, " That produce of the income tax which has been lOW° e rts er her Majesty's Government is intended to form a tune g . of t o I than is required for the public service ; that the adoKi" c , ese said income tax, undr such circumstances, would the people, already suffering under severe privation: l T:l burden than the necessities of the public service reriel ss sitee that this House, therefore, will not resolve itself into C on Ways and Means until it has been determined what am of taxes shall be reduced or repealed." Te SPEAKER bayi pth qon, Mr. W D ng ut e S. CRAFOR said he had ues ativailed himself of „ i rlt Easter recess, to ascertain the opinion of his constime n ic s e rte s respect to the proposed tax, and their unanimous t „, sees that it ought, in every possible way, to be resisted. Th,e.'o o o. some things, however, in the proposal of the Higt,i l l s , ses Baronet which he could , not but approve. Arnoegst "` sit i s ula• the proposal to tax real property, which he thought %. t rose d lieve the poor, by means of taxing the rich. He al" a P, i ets eei of the proposal to tax non-residents who spent their foreign countries. He also thought it right that erciriwt bt the uide should be taxed for the benefit et the State. " vi stO thought there were disadvantages arising from this ta t e , e sse fully counterbalanced its advantages. The tax upeccotsad arising trom trades and professions he thought we; e u n j, ,r be Fe' oppressive, and taxing the capital vested in trade tow kes o d culiarly unjust. And, again, the amount of duty ta , articles of consumption was not sufficient. In the )ea' ,iu proposhon was made by Mr. Robinson to .13°. but, income tax, which was supported by the different Par tie r - ;ese° at the same time, that Gentleman proposed , Ans tlie r taxes on consumption, to the amou n t o f 8,000,000 b, objection to this tax was, that it w a s p ro p o sed for tae.P on • Rat' upholding monopolies ; and anoth e r strong ohie e . lt in 10 that it was proposed in order to support a war, Sc!"l e tite sts, (Mr. Crawford's)opinion, and in the opinion of bison' lo sitt was unjust; and he thought the honour of that 1 1 " us e„ o f th e best manifest itself by having a resolution declaratory din unjustness of that war. Those opinions had been egr e i ie jtli° resolutions which had been agreed upon at two meetieg s ' Rochdale, the one a meeting of the Anti-Corn-law - 415° ‘, It bssel and the other a public meeting of the electors and i"" on of Rochdale. Although he disapproved o f the prop osl to odt ° the Right Hon. Baronet, he did not wish to be ne tletl eel l ' e approve of tits counter proposition of the Noble Lordbe Noble Lord's plan upheld a duty upon corn, an t• Crawford) never could support a budget which did I,re rich ,' did not wish to be considered as bei ng o pposed to t° Hon. Baronet as a party man, but he took that cour se ss t ire"' he thought the interests of th e country ee l t without • any refirence to party. The Peerbeisb the inclined to doubt the character of the relief "OW Right Hon. Baronet proposed to afford them, because t' ve nee' Hon. Baronet had given no notice of any increase of, r s ' e s4 neither had they any intimation from the Right 1 1 °",. Baronet as to how long this tax was to conti nu ,,, s , 14 ‘ , was proposed, in the first instance, for three Y e ' 4,, there were no meanspointed out for the getting l. 1"; the revenue after the income tax should be abolish e iiss ti it to be by economy, by alterations in our colonial e,T s ' es il • reduction of the army and navy, or by what means? l e ' asp s not told. It certainly was necessary that the peal' s eta, know, before they granted this measure, what means e `e s ee t i i , adopted hereafter for their relief. He had thought it e it „ii i thus to express the opinions of himself and his colist i e: this question , to account for the manner in which b e vote. W 1 44 The House was then about to divide, strangers ordered to withdraw, when th P 4l. Mr. THOMAS DUNCOMBE rose and said 0 .44 thought the motion of his Honour a bl e Friend tt of far too great consequence to he a ll owe d a° P as o 513 , t e in that way ; he should beg, therefore, very shottli it id what his feelings on the subject were, an d w hy he ib ° %t er I: 10 for the measure. They had heard that even i n g, in e n „ s s ost'is question with regard to the tariff, which was always be part and parcel with the income tax measure, th at .if ° t ot, Hon. Baronet was not prepared to stand by the tar t tilf he before the House on the first night of the debate• motion of his Hon. Friend was simply to the effettbich at House ought to be acquainted with th e d ut i es nf ; m at people were to be relieved. It was p reva l en t du c u ' s iet ° 'ir country that this tariff might be postpo ne d, or at anY f or ille, e ! I be modified, but in the meantime it was sa id, " veaeL come tax, swallow the pill; you mu s t d o t h a t, or else will be turned out ; vote for the income tax in thew e i t e s Now, was it meant to fritter away the tariff, so th at iete r° l3 not be worth a farthing? He hoped that was not W a ils of Government, and he was sure the Right Hon. 1 4° ,2 ! g be obliged to him for giving him an opportunity of s % il ite tio t ther or not it ever crossed his mind' te postpone 1 ",,,s tax. The proposition of his Honourable Friend , 0 1 €0 the people should understand whether it avast 11 ;1 that the duties, which had been before menti °° o ;iti o t to the full extent to be carried out, or whether the r od ' er ; to be postponed. He (Mr. Duncombe) had under s teg ett er , the tariff and the income tax were to go pari pea% f &I,' it and, indeed, he did not consider that the resolution° es etr; Friend was one which should he treated with we TC" - srt• with which it was about to be met, by the House,glilet s J division, without a remark from one of her MajestY" s „, He thought, if the Right Hon. Gentleman wool rev to read it, he would find that there was a good deal ° ..,s justice, and common sense in it. sV i r iff' Sir R. PEEL said, the H on . G ent l eman ha-A Ise d d whether it had ever crossed his m i n d t o postre e re eite ts et Now, taking the question in the s ense i n w hi c h he,P' t it ° ro e had been put, he ai:swered, without h es itation, °lwo had crossed his mind.—( Hear, he ar .) There had fih little delay in considering this tariff, in consequence Po°, but terests of many parties who were effected having tots° hear' he .and whose opinions, lie had already said, he wished A t° , pe lf he had stated that he had great hopes that, on 1 0 ° 1 1 sta t i e t idee should be able to produce the tariff. And he ece l idpv thought, with confidence, that the tariff which he sh"„ u r ievil'had on Monday would be considered to be the same I °, l s ielaY r alt that which he had before brought forst ard. Th a `, e erisen solely from a desire to hear those parties sth i e• ti not fi re were concerned; but, as he had s a id b e f o re, he "' jeps r dr template such alterations as would be considered seY 'hi e s i ,e from the general principle. Now, in consequenc e co' so' lay of a few hours, he trusted the House would o f ott that he was departing from the principles of the i sland"; IV that they would permit him to bring in the Istib, sis 1 1, the resolution before the House. It was quite c - i se deo' tariff must he in possession of the House before d s to could be called on to allow. the second reading t 5 0 5 should be anything which should appear to be le ° P r l ete it o es• 01 what he had before proposed, it would be quite :, the 111 1 the House to oppose the second reading, and rej ec o sure altogether. That, however, he believed if h o,te , question of the Hon. Gentleman—it was wheths r e rs the income tax, he should postp - ne the tariff oest4,oi 4 ' that such an intention never entered his mind. t he t was quite clear that the proposed alteration 000 5 . ; which would tend to lessen the revenue 1,200, 0 " u i 5 e07 4 ,0:, an important bearing on the consideration of the not !Jilt and he did hooe that the Hon. Gentleman w°" t ', to him the motives of getting, first the income, t bel'of being a voluntary party to the postponement °+__ ces e _ 1 0; (Hear, bear.) He hoped the House would not r; ioc inv , ,,,,!:: this preliminary resolution : they would bear ie_ ju sioin o ,l opponents of the measure, if they passed the r r e e so„.., !_ oi sti r have a full opportunity, on the second 8 -! ; : i its future stages, of opposing it.— ( Heard' 0 P'co'll of this metsure being met as had be e / t oo 0 universal execration, he thought on the contr. , t er fr,„ l of d mu nieations which he had received on the ° L ii i ge r : i t 5",,, parties, that it would be met with general 0 0 " osi er'' i s prob lion. He believed that the sooner the r lo t le", al t manufacturing interests of the country kne,"':`,. e ,lber o gli hli :li the commercial policy sanctioned by the Legislatures, the advantage would he to them ; ard he in"' ass d e t i,ge said it in perfect good humour, that having hadi &ga s . s"`; after the holydays for that tremendous burst o a f_il op i i t a e+; 1 1 ; cl beingthey were equally satisfied,e d with that e h e e p x e p d l o te e n y , he w sse measure, and go on to a di v i s i on , e ach bas g ! i l that he had in view. U t Mr. E. ELLICE said he agreed in the cou r , -° lO Right Eon. Baronet had taken, and in the prine t W o oer ci p !s. li, he had acted, because he did not see said wh a th i s , b e b o he could have adopted ; but having • le t ie ° jJ say that he could not concur with h,a,T o. 0 0 ,. ; come tax. He thought what the Right al".„..sare!sle should have attempted to do, under the present .P.riactre have been to have found some less objectionaeifjio t°o which he could have brought the tax uponire;l. , 0 ,r 4 venue, without having recourse to the old i Ir ro t o t ° 9 st s ,l its irregularities, and its unfair le essure on !t raw l manity.—( Hear, hear.) Believing that soT_ e nii iie taken to maintain the credit of the country, 1 ,7 .. 1 t aonr h ,s . l : l l with the Right Hon. Baronet, that one of th e se etfr-slta plying the deficiency must be adopted—theY4'i c h ses!„',o 4 i ther tax consumption Lthey must make that s' "lobo+r monopolists enter the Exchequer ; or they m Hon. Baronet had done, propose an income , or_ rath er oti P' . ..„ 0 1 have been a property tax, and make those 'NB" so e c' 2 1,4 1 . „ w ere •ce se the burdens. He thotight, also, that there s „ ie h .0 0 the budget of the Right Hon. Gentleman: , tir s crease the deficiency of the revenue, and Wt a t ri tT on tee the t at` „ %d sexy. He could not see why they should ah t r ' re d timber.—( Hear, hear.) He infinitely PrV. e Ho . kri lies; which had been brought forward by his os ite.., year, to that of the Right Hon. Gentlemanro7,ch i sl e . _ A could certainly doubt the difficulties u nd a e n or 0 ( 4 5 o te; Hun. Friend undertook the duties of Ch ie w t - 0, 1 chequer then; and last year his Right ,f_ ro Gent iv 0.2 much in the same situation that the Right ne to 014 :1 1 r? now. He was obliged to propose measures nura ble ' Ol , deficiency in the Exchequer. His Rig ht e bet' io h pr y op t o h s e iti ß on ig , ht he He th n o en ug ra h h t l , e ought not t o o po ita: riew ,. - I , a.tive Tbc ,. l ; e o 4 , thought the calculations of his friends was expected from those sources w. tu t L ey 0,1 a re gerated, he was convinced that in principle u.t*AY thas 6 ed e P heat that had been proposed, and _h o e ht H o p. 0 14 4 1 who v ere ery creditable to tt e . _ s at ov l rtono t e f ' the t o t. who had proposed them, and to th him munity in t h h e e g m a , ve an t d he o m n, h be is h s a i l n f thatth en , with was respect best, andto the h e stticoameftrebetdehtr the it,cal ui t : e n: s , r impose oitieercial pa rj rc ` i.lt : oj ee tki. olti e duty on American timber at once by er + m " A itiee j oy' When the elm_ mstances of the c o untry R in , er tor t , dt reduce the duties on foreign and Canada ti e derived act* he could not understand why the revenue source 0,11" source shoul i be given up under p d d noti n d ai n understand h e o r w e e t pitiful duty of or o sic tr i Canada, he thought that if the , Wou ld fulif f0 0; ( 1 who ear . 7re Wth sufferingr respect e u e n t d t e o r nh t et t h i h t e P e l ee p dr : b : t e s on s n ; t r fi rh e te t oas o etb fl ier i t o l e a t .ri c e e lf w r i o w ;: d il e: 1; )11.--.01 1 , 11°; :b e;vr , : h shillings on colonial wheat was removed it i g ht susta i° i i e sate the Canadians for any loos ev ' hm hear.) r'ogbt tit alteration in the timber duties.--.( be ar , t t h o e a r e p rt w i p a e s r ty a ntyatiri,n thine w s a n s not r o e i d i s could tmy be taxed in time of war taxed a t a no Kr rte did nut see why it should not be ,eves t e 5t It was the source from which assistance C° and rif 1i I ft u h t °s p e r_ i:: : - L eT tfi th evii 1 n 11 : 1 1 ) the be most easily drawn, under all circumstanc's't kast+ . . s inf danger to the trade of the country. R et t ; j u st ie`; pert) , was to be taxed, why should not they e erttiii i cit riec ii .;o o He (Mr. E.) represented a large enulT to iog wished they were asked as to the justice r ss.s pelists."' 4 ,tl { trade, or whether it was fair to put theras" to gsto that they must either say that they had nottuitart if_r i v . o t ; e r the sake of maintaining their credit, make :"; to ,i'• 0 .10. 1 00 ought not. It was desirable they should eC,", ces tal"ip 0+ principle with respect to a property-tsix , and "r, Ras it could not be permanently.. miuntsmil. a?