The Sun. — London, England, 1825-02-04 00:00:00

The majority of property in Ireland and the whole of England backing the Protestant cause, could leave no doubt as to the result of such a conflict. A time indeed might come when the Catholies, aided by foreign powers, might prevail by force, but what then would be the result of their triumph ? What was it. that they desired ? Admission into the State and a participation in all the rights and advantages of the Constitu tion. But if they come in by violence, they would enter into a half broken State and participate in expiring liberty and half extinguished independence 1 Had they not better wait for a place in a well ordered State, and for a legitimate introduction to all the blessings of the Constitution ? They had gradually attained an equality of votes in both houses, by the course of moderation which they had pursued ; what ought to be, and wbatwould be the of of what now passed ? They would lose the friends who wavered, and shake those who were firm. It _was ooly by retraeing their steps and returning to conciliatory conduct that they could ever regain the ground which they had lost. Ile trusted, however, that when the question should come before their Lordships, they would not be diverted by those temporary violence% from considering its real state, which was, whether the general situation -of the Catholics of Ireland was one which could continue, not for the life of one individual, et durin g ; the viceroyalty of another, but for ever, as the per , manent situation of the country ; or whether if their admission i•ere an evile it was not a less evil than their constant dis content and possible defection. The Noble Viscount then eulogized - the wise policy which kept us disentangled from those elhreign connections which might lead us into danger. He took a view of the state of parties abroad, some were desirous not to restore the system • existing befbee the Revolution, to bring back something still More practically despotic. They regarded our Constitution as a sort of pest, permitted but dangerous. and sincerely ab honed national liberty and independence. They were actuated by the most hitter feelings towards us, anti resembled their predeces'sors, the Jacobins, except in this, that they are less sincere. He said less sincere, because they were those who had most servilely crouched at the foot of Napoleon's throne, • • and complained that we did not assist them in giving them that liberty and power which they would have employed to crush us ; for they hated English glory and greatness still more bitterly than their adversaries. lfs however, it was their pur pose to make any attempt against us, let them know that we possessed ample means to resist aggression. Ile trusted that we should alltain from taking part in the struggle going on be tween those two factions, whose objects were, the one to crush liberty; the other to disturb the peace of mankind. England had once been connected with the Continent of • Europe to curb the power of France, but would now never lend herself to the views of any power. With respect to the recognition of the South American States, they complained that we had not given Spain that consideration, which legiti inate "Sovereigns did not spew to us when our colonies revolted. We aced towards Spain with all good feeling as Allies. We disdained to run a race of popularity to gain some exclusive ad vantages for Ourselves. We abstained from taking the decisive step as long as there was any contest in arms, or any chance of accommodation with the Mother Country, but when all hopes had ceased, it would have been unjust to ourselves to keep aloof any longer out of regard for • extravagant political no tions, whilst the colonies were both able and. willing to main tain the accustomed relations of independent states. In fact *the independence of Old Spain herself was much more ques tionable than that of her late colonies. For she was occupied 'by 40,000 French troops, who it was said were -to support her Government, hut who might overturn and suppress it. if they pleased. He had seen somewhere an absurd comparison of the . heeftisal of his late Majesty at an early period of the American war to recognise the independence of the United States, with that of the King of Spain to sanction the emancipation of his `Colonies. When the King of England had refused to acknow ledge the United States, lie had fleets and armies of his own, and was not seated like Ferdinand on a tottering throne, only - 'supported by foreigners, detested by the whole country. In 'cur recognition of South America we had proceeded with due slowness and propriety, and waited for the precise moment when insurrection ended and lawful government began. The Noble Viscount then moved an Address which re-echoed the sentiments of the speech. Lord GOUT said, that after the very able speech of his Noble Friend,it would not he necessary for him to trespass long upon their Lordship's attention. ,The various points alluded to in his Majesty's Speech were so well observed upon,and the whole of the general policy so amply embraced by the Noble . Mover in his eloquent appeal to the House, that he (Lord G.) would neither be • required nor expected to follow the detains. But the state of Ireland was such, and the interest taken in it, • especially by those who were connected with that country was' so great, that he was sure their Lordships would excuse isiro for making a few observations on the subject. In the firat, place, he concurred in thinking that the Noble and_ ; diStitt guished Lord at the head of his lajesty's Governmerinest land, was entitled to the approbation of every moderate and unbiassed mind. Their Lordships were aware of the ditficul es in which that country was placed, when the Noble lord un dertook the: Government. In the South particularly, no man's life or property was safe. Outrages of all kinds were cone. mitted, and the public peace was daily violated in a manner which seemed to bid defiance to the authority oflaw. Since then however, a different aspect of affairs had arisen, the offenders were brought back to a proper sense of their duty ; the con stabulary system was established in full force, and the general " temper of the piople was improved. As a natural conse. qtience of such a change, the value of land had risen, anti he • hoped, if the same system was persevered in, to be able to cosgratulate the ,-louse, at a future period, on the growing and increasing prosperity of that important part of the empire. - Sincerely attached 'to Ireland, as he was, he would presume to call their Lordships' attention to a body now existing there—. a body of which assumed all the powers of Parliament, even to the extent of imposing taxes on the people. They had este- Wished what they called a Catholic Rent, obviously and pro fessedly. with a view to enforce the measure called Catholic Emaricip ttion. he should have an opportunity hereafter, to gether' with their Lordships, of offering his opinion on the Ca tholic question, when it was brought distinctly before the House. Under that persuasion he would abstain at present from entering into that subject ; but thus much he would say at pre ' sent, that if he was the worst enemy of the Catholics,. he could not advise them to a course more destructive of their • interests, or the purpose they had in view, than that which ki hlPine ! from the Mini— sterial side).. No man could hear or read of teir proceed : logs, without feeling that they were acting it, direct hostility. ' to' their own success. They indulged in the most inflamma tory speeches ; they told the people that they were slaves, • and that the Protestants held them in bondage. Was this a • language calculated to advance their claims? There were, as matters now stood, two Parliaments in this Empire ; there was the Catholic Parliament of Ireland, and the Protestant Perna anent of England. The two Parliaments could not exist toge - they. lie therefore agteed. fully in-that-part of his Majesty's ' Speech, which alluded to the - circumstance of this Association. e But the collectors of the Catholic rent, and the debaters by whom it was promoted, affected to issue proclamations, with a mew' to tranquillize the people. It would be recollected, how -. . tier, that the people were tranquillized before by the active • measures of the Government. The claim of those. partisans to ' the •eeedit of tranquillizing Ireland was therefore absurd. He did not Mean to insinuate that any of the leader:id the Catho - lie Body were capable of advising the people toiziistribe laws, • hut he would say, that the power which they now assumed was • too great to be left, consistently with prudence, in the hands of ' the peony. He did not think that any obstacle should be • thrown in the way of the Catholics on coming forward to peti ' tion Parliament ; but when they come to the house they should. come as petitioners, not as dictators,. and then lie had no doubt that their prayers would be considered with all the solemnity ' and patience which their importance demanded ; but they should approach the Legislature, not as rival and hostile Le i g,islators ; they should bear in their hands the olive-branch, and not the sword. Lord KING then rase, and said that he perfectly -approved of those measure s w hi c h had for their object the promotion of , the industry anti commerce of the country. ' The Earl of LAUDERDALE called the Noble Lord to order, on the ground that the Address, to which be was about to speak, bad neither been read from the Woolsack, nor by the ' Clerk. • • Th e LORD CHANCELLOR, Lord lIOLLAND, and Lord DUDLEY and WARD, gave their opinions on the point of or der, in a tone of voice that 'was not audible below the bar. - The Earl of LAUDEttDALE repeated his objection, and affirmed, that during the whole of his Parliamentary experience ' he had never heard any question debated without having been first read, either by their Speaker, who was the Lord Chan " cellos, or by the Clerk. • The Earl of LIVERPOOL said it was entirely his fault that the Address had not been read. lie would admit that, in strict form, both the 'Mover and the Lord Chancellor should read - the Address. • It was omitted by both in the present instance, ' add he had not noticed the oversight ; but the shortest mode of ' proreeding would be to hear it now from the Woolsack, rather ' than to persist in a discussion which had arisen from a 'ilium derstanding altogether. • - The LORD CHANCELLOR obServed, that the fault was I neither in the Noble Mover, nor in his Noble Friend, who had taken it upon himself, but in him (the Lord - Chancellor), whose business it was to read it. Probably he might have been influenced- by a wish to spare his own langs, but-if the House had a mi n d to h ear i t now, h e wou ld read it.--The Lord Chan cellor then read the Address; which was an echo of the Speech, as usual. t. Lord KING said, that';' as he was about to say before, he Joined in giving full Waise to the measures which had been adopted for the improvement' of• the commerce of the country. As the Speech of (he Chia ZMagistrate of England, he was willing to give the Speech all praise, for it was itself conceived in a tone of approbation excepting only the allusion to the proceedings of the Catholics in Ireland: It was to be remem bered, however, in the midst of their most grateful feelings, that the Sovereign who made the Speech, the Sovereign of this Pro testant country, was also the Sovereign of six millions of Irish Catholics, who had suffered, and were still suffering under all the evils of mis-govirtinient. The world was certainly grown wiser than it had been. The day was happily gone by, when religious opinionte'and matters of conscience were made a pretext for trampling upon those who professed particular creeds and modes of faith. There were but two exceptions to this general improvement—those exceptions were Turkey and Ireland.— The only legitimate Sovereign in Europe who still adhered to the. old system was the Sovereign of Turkey, in his policy to wards the Greeks. When the Greeks wished to be treated a little better thhn dogs, and presumed to shew their teeth, the Sovereign wished for a divided Divan, as the best mode of en countering the difficulty. His Grand Vizer, whose office might be compared with that of our Prime Minister, was one who, with a good character and reputation, was still so careless of his own dignity as to suffer himself to be insulted in his own Divan. But this Divan consisted of many discordant materials. The next officer was the Reis-Effendi—a man who understood the foreign policy of the country well ; who acted up to that know ledge as far as lie could contrive, in the midst of a quarrelling anti jealous Cabinet, and who h ad the credit given him by ge neral opinion, of being capable of doing much better, if he had not the misfortune to be resisted by his own colleagues. Their _hardships could form no idea of the nature of the Divan, whose members he was now describing. They differed upon all sub jects. Envy, hatred, and malice, and all uncharitableness, prevailed at every sitting, and influenced every measure adopt ed towards that country - " Where the rage of the vulture, the love of the turtle Now melt into sorrow, now madden to crime." The sentiments of the Reis Effendi were favourable to the Greeks, but he was overruled and counteracted in his good in tentions. The next person of consequence in this motley Ca binet was at the head of the Police of that country. He was said to be a fair man, a great lover of propriety and decorum, but was a decided enemy to the Greeks. Human patience could hold out no longer, but the growing influence of the Reis Effendi saved Turkey, and the controul of their police was dismissed at last as a uselesi supernumerary of the Divan. Another of these great personages was the Captain Pashaw, and then came the great head of the Turkish law, a man who had lived so long in place that it was thought he would never consent to be removed from it. His great aversion was change of any kind, and he carried his aversion so far, as to feel a: horror of all improvement. Whether in law or in policy, in foreign-or domestic arrangements, this officer was said to be the champion of existing abuses. He was said to be the most consummate master of intrigue in the whole Divan ; upon one occasion he had espoused the cause of a great Sultaness, and abandoned after when it suited his purpose, and on its being proposed to admit the Greeks to certain privileges, he was the author of a furious and fanatical cry which proclaimed the 3lussulman's faith in danger. His conscience was represent ed as particularly tender in cases where his own interests were concerned, but so well disciplined as never to take part against them. At one time lie found in one Vizier " the pilot that weathered the storm," and when another Vizier came in, who, without setting himself directly against the question of Greek emancipation, appeared surrounded with all the scourings of the mosques; whenever the measure was irtroduced. he found in him the same great qualities which he had admired in his predecessor. So great was his success, and so excellent his contrivance, that it was said no measure of the' kind was likely to be proposed again in the Divan. Such were the scenes which took ,place in this detestable Divan of bigots— If it was the wish of the British Parliainent to do like. wise, their policy, like that of the Sultan, should be to get together a divided Divan. Succeeding in that, they might calculate with security on producing the same consequences. The Marquis of LANSDOWN expressed his concurrence in what had fallen from his Noble Friend who had so ably dis cussed the general topics of the Speech, and thought that an eloquence far inferior to that which bad been displayed, would have been sufficient to procure a ready assent from the House to • the admission of comparative prosperity, and above all, a ready assent to that part of the Speech which regarded that most important measure of foreign policy—he meant the recognition of the independent states of South America. He had long thought that it was to that quarter of the world this country was most interested in lookin g forward, with a view to the im provement of her commercial affairs. But that was not all. He was the last person who would recommend that any step should r be taken merely for the sake of a lucrative object, inconsistent with the principlepf what was due to this country and to other . states. Ae he saw nothing at the present moment to render `this a more favourable time for the adoption of the measure awn 'some years-ago, he inferred that it was done upon prin ciple merely, that principle working its way by its own strength ; and he was glad to find that no treaty was alluded to, nor any expression made use of which could interfere with the impres. ' sion. lie also felt great pleasure in reflecting that this country, without recognizing the existing Government as democratical or aristocratic, had recogniked the right of nations to choose their own Government. Such a conduct formed an honourable distinction between the policy of this country, and that which the nations of the continent acted upon in the same case ; and when contrasted with the course pursued by many of the great nations of Europe entitled the promoters of it to the appro bation of the country. With respect to the contemplated addition of fifteen or twenty thousand men to our military establishment, he knew not whether the state of the war in the Burmese territory was supposed to require it; he thought, however, that it was a subject which called for a direct commu nication to that House as soon as circumstances would permit. They saw that in a time of comparatively general prosperity— when commerce and agriculture, by being beneficially ex tended, had produced a degree- of contentment hardly known before; when, therefore, had these causes alone been sufficient, perfect mid permanent tranquillity might almost necessarily have been expected ; yet, that circumstance indicated, that Ministers thought a particular measure necessary to destroy those dangers, with which they were, or thought themselves menaced. All lie should say on that subject (though not ne cessarily connected with the questions now before: the )louse, yet in some measure relating to it) was, that he had only to implore their Lordships, not to think.that by removing some of the external symptoms, they had removed the cause of that irritation which now existed in Ireland. Hetrusted, they would not think that, with respect to five or six millions of people, who formed by far the greater portion of the inhabitants of that country, and who, by their religious opinions, were divided from the rest of their countrymen, and especially from those who principally governed them, and who, on that account, were placed in a situation so materially different from that in which any other nation had ever been placed, he trusted, he said, most sincerely, that with respect to such people, so situated, their Lordships would not think, that by doing something to a part of the head they had efl'ected a cure of an evil which ran through the whole body. Such meastues might destroy one symptom, but so sure as they did, another would arise, and they would not be in the least benefiting the country, while, on the other hand, they would be pursuing a system which would affect the prosperity of that country, and unnerve the vigour of this.. On any measure that might hereafter be proposed to Parliament, he should fully give his opinion; but he thought it right at the outset to say, that he wished public opinion to operate upon every man, not by the means of secret communication, but of open discussion, and if the mea sure which he believed would be proposed should- be found available for the purpose of keeping secret the communica tion of circumstances, which among a distressed people would naturally arise, he should still feel inclined to hesitate before he adopted it. In fact, he had rather that public opinion should flow through certain open and recognised channels, than that its current should be in the dark, where it would be impossible to trace its course, or to follow its direction. It was not in outward and visible signs of discontent, that, persons situated as he had described, could be in any way dreadful to the State. It was not secret freemasonry that was to be dreaded—the freemasonry they had to dread, was that created by their own statutes, which prevented men from meet ing to speak of those grievances which they felt, and from giv ing utterance to those feelings which they in their situation ex cited. He should now conclude with the reservation he had already stated, as to speaking on any subject that might here after be proposed, anti especially with reference to any evils that might be said to arise from a subject that had been but slightly adverted to by the Noble Viscount who seconded the motion ; for when that Noble Viscount had spoken of the objects of the Catholic Rent, lie had not stated what objects they were.—lle (Lord Lansdown) only now wished to say, that he should be prepared to meet every measure in discussion, and to adopt any that might seem to him to be beneficial in its tendency, provid ed only it went to the root of the evil. The Earl of LIVERPOOL said, that he should not have addressed any observations whatever - to the House but for some of the statements made by the Noble Lord who had just . taken his seat. On these he certainly did feel much disposed to make a few remarks. When a spirit of general satisfaction seemed to pervade the country, and when the Noble Lord himself appeared to join in it, and admitted that it had in creased in prosperity, no.difference of opinion existed between them. After the eloquent description that had been given to night of the state of the people of this country, he should not weaken its effect by attempting to say any thing upon that sub ject, but he could not pass one topic relating to it upon which he peculiarly congratulated himself, and that was, that after all the difficulties arising from the war we had so long been carry ing on ; after all. the difficulties attendant upon that war, even since peace had been concluded, which were scarcely less or 'fewer-than those encountered irethe war e Parliament had been able to do what but few men supposed thenecapaisle of effect ing. Few men had imagined that, in Spite of the burden laid upon this country, Parliament would ever have been able to maintain the public credit while they returned to cash pay ments. A great clamour had been raised—opinions had been expressed—discussions had been excited by the press—they had been called upon to reduce the burdens of the people, which were indeed heavy, but the reduction of which they could not then consent to authorise. If they had shewn firmness in war, they had done so in peace, and they ,hdd returned to a metallic currency, without violating any of those engagements they had made without the public cre ditor. He would not deny that the task was difficult, nay, that it was one of Herculean labour, but it had been accomplished, and the credit of the country remained undiminished. This being the state of the country, the Ministry had the satisfaction of beginning the reduction of the popular burdens. They had commenced by relieving the people from the restrictions that had been imposed upon commerce. He trusted that the House would give him credit for having been opposed to these restrictions on principle. lie had always advocated the principles of a free trade, and he was happy when an op portunity was presented for carrying those principles into practice. Be wished now to make a few observations upon the subject of the South American States. It had often been said, since the present measures had been adopted with re spect to those States, that these measures might have been adopted at an earlier period. Now, he thought he could satisfactorily shew that such an opinion was unfounded.— These measures Were important, not to this country alone, but the world at large; and the question respecting them was, not simply whether their ports should be open to the commerce of Great Britain, but, whether they should or should not be in terdicted from any intercourse with the rest of the nations of the earth ? In fact, in his opinion, the question was equally important to this country and to the whole world. On such a question he felt that he, holding the situation lie did in the Government of this country, should not have been justified had his opinion been founded on the question of commercial ad vantages alone. He had before expressed his sentiments on the subject of Parliament acting as a Judge in such a case between the two opposing parties. He had told them that they, had no right to set themselves up in such a situation, and to sit in judgment between the mother country and her colonies ; that they were not to be sop posed to know that the South American States were not actually free. His Noble Friend who had moved the Address bad referred to the opposite opinion. He 'knew that some persons thought, that when a country was in vaded, Parliament had a right to discuss the merits of that in vasion, and to sit in judgment upon the propriety of the con duct of one or both of the parties. Now he thought, that if this principle was admitted, it was as strong on one side as on another; and he had always maintained it as his opinion, that they could not sit in judgment, either on one or the other, without it was absolutely necessary for their safety. The real questions for them were, whether any considerable contest was being carried on between the mother country and the colonies ? Whether in the latter there was to be found any strong party in favour of the mother country, or whether that party was not completely insignificant, even if it had any existence ? and whether there was any hope of reconciliation between the two countries? If there was, then he should oppose any interference on. the part of a third state. What were the circumstances upon which their rights of interference were founded ? Not upon their own in rests alone, but on their interests as connected with those of the world at large. He had no hesitation in saying, that when peace had been restored to Europe, this country had offered her mediation, which, however, leaf been declined—and he might add, that he hail now reason to know that these Colonies would have been secured to Spain, had she listened to that offer of mediation. Secured not certainly in their old state of bondage, but by an honourable though dependent union. Such being the case, it became the duty of this Government, with refe rence to her own interests, to look for that time when no real or considerable contest was going on—when there was no rea sonable hope of mediation—and when circumstances taught the Mother Country herself to despair of the existence of any strong party in the Colonies inclined favourably towards her. The first State which had taken decisive means to separate her self from the Mother Country was that of Rio de la Plata. When that separation could he effected, of course the first thing that would take place between this country and that would be an exchange of Ministers. The Colony was at that time negu ciating a treaty, by which she was to be delivered from the Spanish armies. Colombia was the next State to which he should udVert. At the commencement of last year, Co lombia was in a state to have mantained relations with fo reign powers, but it entered into an engagement with ano ther State, by which it became bound to undertake a .war against a third, where the influence of Spain still existed in considerable force, and therefore this country, acting on the principles he had mentioned, had felt that it was not only the most natural but the most prudent course to adopt, to wait and know what was to be dote, before it adopted any final step with regard to that state. As to Mexico, that stood in a different si tuation, in one which in some measure required the same delay. The Government of that State had formerly been possessed by a man who, after losing his authority there, had visited this country. From hence he sailed to Mexico, with the hope of re-establishing the authority he had lost. While the success of his attempt was yet undetermined, this country could take no measures for the immediate recognition of that State. An other reason for the delay of that proceeding was, that in 111 ex - no regular Government bad been at that time formed. The doubts of this country, however, had been finally determined, by the capture of the individual to whom he had alluded;' and by the establishment of a regular Government. He had thought it necessary thus to state the principles upon, which this coun try had acted, from which, he thought, it would clearly ap pear, that the recognition of these States had only been de layed, while that delay was rendered obsolutely necessary by existing circumstances, but that when these circumstances had ceased to operate, the recognition had instantly been made. He should now take the liberty of referring to two parts of the No ble Lord' speech, not closely connected with each other in the order of delivery, but referring to the same point . . He meant to those which related to the increase of the military establishment • i of this country. On that subject, he trusted, the Noble Lord would take nothing for granted till it had been discussed and proved, but that he would wait till he received such inform. ation as the Government could give. He could assure the House, that it was not the fault of the Government that on this subject no information had as yet been afforded. The Papers wou!d soon be produced, relating both to the origin and circumstances of the war ; and if, when produced, they did not appear sufficient for all the purposes of the information required, he could assure the House that there was every open and fair disposition on the part of Govern ment to give every satisfactory explanation. With respect to Ireland, he had only to say that, if he did not enter into a detail of the circumstances, it was because lie did not think it necessary at this hour of the night. What had been recom mended in the Speech from the Throne, and what would come under their consideration, he should not say was not connected with the Catholic question, for Noble Lords could make any thing . relating to Ireland connected with that queition, but it certainly did not immediately grow out of it in any way in which it was now proposed. The Catholic Association he considered to be an invasion of the law, and to have been Undertaken by those who said that whatever laws might be made, they would do their utmost to evade or to defeat them. They objected to the Convention Law, let it be proposed in any shape what ever—but it was for Parliament to say whetheir their ojections should be considered sufficient. It was for Parliament to say whether, looking at that Association, it could be considered either compatible with the Constitution of Ireland, or con sistent with the safety of that country. If he were a-Catholic Advocate, the first thing he would do would be to put down that Convention, and lithe Catholic Question was to be carried, he would have it carried on its own merits alone. He denied, on his part, any wish to interfere with the right of the people to petition the Parliament, to discuss and lay before the Govern ment the grievances of which they complained. He said this not with reference to Parliament alone, but to the nation at large. There were abuses with respect to Ireland, which had in some measure been mitigated since the last Session. The House might rememher the opinions he had then expressed. It had been attempted to connect those abuses with the Catholic Ques tion, with which, however, they were not necessarily nor pro perly to be connected ; and he had therefore refused to consider them as relating to each other. He felt that Parliament owed it to the peace and prosperity of Ireland, to take some measures to put down any convention in that country. What, he would ask, had prevented Ireland from being equal in prosperity to this country ? England was heavily taxed, while the taxes drawn from Ireland were comparatively light ; then what could make the difference between the two ? He answered, it was the spirit of political and religious dissension existing there. If that were the case, then he would boldly ask any man whether any greater bar to the prosperity of a nation could exist than such a convention as the Catholic Association, which must keep alive those dissensions that had so materially injured the country ? For the sake of the peace of Ireland, Parliament were hound to look to this Association ; and in order to bring som e -. thing definite before the H ouse , he now gave notice that lie should shortly move for a Committee to inquire into the pre sent state of Ireland. [Some conversation here ensued between the Earl of LIVE R POOL and another Noble Lord, across the table. We believe it related to the proposed motion, but we could not hear the particulars.] Lord DaNOUGHMORE said, that nothing could be more satisfactory than the terms in which the Noble Lord opposite (Viscount Dudley and Ward) had proposed the Address.— Every part of it met with his approbation but one—that which related to the presentsituation of Ireland. It was to him strange ly anomalous, to resort tq coercion after indulging in the most flattering description of the tranquillity and prosperity of the country. And it was quite true that the wise Measures em ployed by Government, and the temper and judiciousness with which they were administered had restored perfect peace in Ireland. lie had just come from the seat of Magistracy there, where he was weekly in the habit of dispensing jus tice, and he could bear testimony to th e spi r it of good or d er and obedience to the laws which prevailed. Was it fitting then that in such a state of things the peopl e s h ou ld- b e coerce d ? ' The Catholic Association had been called a Catholic Parlia ment and various other names, but in reality the Members of that Body were merely in the situation in svhich the laws placed them- . --they were excluded from privileges they had a right to enjoy. The Catholics had been given _almost every thing—they had been given the means of being instrumental in doing mischief, without being able to do good—there had been given them every possible reason to hate the Constitution, to hate the country, and to hate the connexion. It was urged that many objectionable things were said in the Association, but many things he believed were uttered in that and the other House of Parliament which bore a similar character. .H e denied, however, that the Association had done injury ; on the contrary, it had done good. The upper classes of the Catholics, to his knowledge, inculcated subordination to the laws, both in private and in public. The Catholic priests were likewise most active in the same good work, and the result was, as he observed before, that tranquillity and prosperity reigned throughout the Island. This was not his assertion only, they were the words of the King himself. Could Ministers, who sanctioned the Royal Speech, say then that enquiry was necessary. No enquiry was needed, nor did he (Lord Donoughmore) ask any. The Catholic Body were united together.—( Hear, hear !)—and their cause was just. One individual had been prosecuted for words which he uttered at a public Meeting, and which were considered seditious. But did the Court and the Jury hold that opinion ? Did Ministers want the Catholics to plot in the dark ? For his part he re gretted exceedingly the measure which was in contemplation, and should resist it to the utmost of his ability. The Earl of RODEN said, that he would detain' their Lord ships but for a few moments, and only upon the subject of a part of the Empire in which he constandy resided. He differed from his Noble Friend (Lord Donoughmore) in almost every word he had heard him express, and he felt a most sincere satis faction at the hope held out in the Royal Speech, and corro borated in the speech of the Noble Earl (Liverpool), in which he had declared his intention to propose to their Lordships de cisive measures effectually to put down the Catholic Associa tion, which was disseminating its poison and venom to the most distant parts of the Empire. He could bear testimony to the baneful effects of this Association upon the minds of the Irish peasantry. It was very easy for Noble Lords in this country, surrounded by a peasantry tranquil and submissive to the laws, to speak lightly or theoretically of the state of Ireland • but it was a very different thing to be every day a witness of the scenes which proceeded from this Catholic Association through Ire land. If ever there was a time when a Protestant Parliament was called onto shew that it would not be dictated to by Roman Catholics, that time was the present. When the heads of this Association were talking to the people of Bolivar, and of other revolutionary leaders, it was only by decisive measures that they could make such agitators crouch at their feet ; but by weak measures, such as the late proceedings in Ireland, the prosecution of individuals, they would only keep up that agita tion which now so unfortunately existed. Earl CLIFDEN remarked, that he subscribed to the Catho lic rent. The existence of the Associations was considered dangerous by some, and it was asked by others for what pur pose the rent was applied ? It was in the minds of many a seri ous thing. He would give an answer. Part of the money was expended in paying former debts, and he understood it was the intention of the Association to employ Counsel to be heard at the Bar of either one or both Houses of Parliament in favour of their claims. With respect to the abuse and odium which had been heaped upon this body of the people, he meant those who had formed themselves into Associations, by the English press—in the John Bill Newspaper for instance—this abuse and vilification were trivial compared with what the Irish press put forth. He would now just advert to another subject, the visit of his Majesty to Ireland, which took place about three years ago ; and did it produce those good effects which it was warmly intended it would produce ? If it were the intention of Government to put down those Societies, did they mean to leave the Orange Associations undisturbed ? He was per suaded that the Catholic Associations were beneficial—they had certainly great expences to encounter—they established schools, and were otherwise serviceable to the poor. Were not these sufficient to excite admiration ?—were not these lawful motives for voluntary subscriptions ? Could such measures really be for a moment imagined to be injurious to the country ? The Noble Earl alluded to the Proclamation issued by his Majesty, on the 13th of Dec. 1824, respecting his Hanoverian subjects, by which his people were not disabled from civil and political rights, - whatever might be their religious opinions. He (Earl Clifton) was anxious to see the same principle extended to the people of Ireland. The Catholic Associations of the latter country, he would assert, had done more towards allaying vio lence titan any Body which heretofore existed. He should hail with pleasure any system by which the poor of Ireland might be benefitted ; and he was of opinion that the Catholic Associa tions had effected considerable good to the country. The Address was then read and agreed to. NEW SPECULATING COMPANIES. _ _ The LORD CHANCELLOR remarked, that at the close of the last Session he had alluded to a Bill which it was his in tention to introduce this Session, and he took this early oppor tunity of redeeming his pledge. The Bill was intended to effect those Joint-stock Companies, many of which were of a mis chievous nature, and many were not yet formed, nor perhaps ever would be formed. The shares of several Companies had been disposed of with advantage to the promoters, and with pro bable losses to the purchasers. His intention was to endeavour to check that sort of proceedings ; and he thought it his duty to give notice of such intention the first day of Parliament. The Noble Lord was undertood to say, that his Bill would make those parties liable to the extent of their shares, or th e i n t eres t they might have derived frtim their shares; and with respect to those Companies which had not been already formed, his Lord ship remarked, that the operation of the Bill would commence on the first day of the Session. lie mentioned this, in order that there might not be a ground of complaint. With regard to those Companies which had been legally formed, he should leave them to the operatLn of the law as it now stood. SCOTCH JUDICATURE BILL. - - The Earl of LAUDERDALE was of opinion that, inas much as many alterations had been made in the Scotch Judi cature Bill, the Committee had better be revived, and _re-mo del it betbre it was again presented to the House. The usual oaths were taken by the different Officers, and the House adjourned at a Quarter before Nine o'Clock till . Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAK ERtOok the Chair ;thalf-past two o'clock, and at a quarter to three the Commons were summoned to the House of Lords to hear his Majesty's Speech delivered by Commission, on the opening of the present Sessio n number of i of Parlia ment. The Speaker, attended by a considerabl e Members, immediately proceeded to the House of Lords. NEW WRITS. On his return, at a quarter to four o'clock , the SPEAKER in pursuance t the cro 4 0 .. f n the during Statute, the he recess, e h a a s d , i a s c a q u u e a d i nt warrantsal t he H t o o utshee, Clerk i rli aw forer e thedi rested to Rieke out new writs for Members to s erve in Parliament for e th ea e se c d o , un a t n y d offorCthorenbwoarlolu, borough hn ofth eroomof Cambridge,S iirnW. theroom Lemon, o de- C. M. Cheere, Esq. deceased. On ted h to e m oti on be issued of NG serveT 0 N i n Parliament , new a writs m e n t county of Donegal, in the r oom of L o rd Mountcharles, de.. ceased, and for the boroug h of Newton, in Lancashire, in the room of T. Claughton , E s q . deceased. On 'the motion of M r. Secretar y CA NNING, the Clandes tine Outlawry Bill was, according to the usual form, read a first and second time. ' THE KING'S SPEECH. • The SPEAKER then acquainted the House that, he had heard his Majesty's Speech on the opening of the present Session o f Parliament, delivered by Co mm i ssion i n the House of Peers, of which, to prevent mistakes, he had procured a Lord F. L. LEVESON GOWER rose to move an address of thanks for the gracious Speech which the House had just heard. He began by observing, that there were periods in the career of every country, when the national prosperity was raised so high, or depressed so low, that only one general sensation respecting it pervaded every class of the community, when feelings not to be removed by arguments possessed every bosom, and when even the uninitiated, as well as those who had the means of the highest information, held the same opinion as to the condition in which he had now the honour of addressing the House, and, placing himself as one of uninitiated he had just mentioned, he viewed the situation of the country in that light, that he thought he could anticipate the general concurrence of the House in the sentiments contained in his Majesty's Speech with respectto its prosperity. He was glad to find that on this occasion he was precluded from the necessity of entering into de tails with respect to particular branches of our sources of wealth. At some periods one class of the community was particularly de pressed below the others. At such times it was the duty of a Mem ber of Parliament to enter into particular s , and to point out the causes of the evil and the nature of the re medy. Now, however, that was fortunately - rendered unnecessary, and the only diffictlitY was which class of the community to describe as most prosperous., Agriculture, commerce, and miumfactures, each in their dif ferent sphere, wore in that progress of improvement calculated to realize the hopes and wishes of the most sanguine lover of his country. IVith the distresses of several classes, which some . time ago existed, but were now no more, their natural conco mitants, dissaffection and distutbanee, had also disappeared.— Those who had been led astray by the difficulties of their con dition and the evil advice and example of others, had long ago returned to the paths of duty and obedience to the laws. A few ill-disposed might, perhaps, still walk the land, but they walked it despised or unnoticed : the spark might still exist, but the fuel was wanted on which that spark could fall. In turning his view from England to the condition of other por- • tions of the United Kingdom, he saw, in their geographical difference, nothing to alter his opinion of the general prospe rity. if he looked to Wales, to Scotland, and he was happy to • • add, to Ireland, the prospect was still cheering. With respect to the latter country, that prospect was every day becoming bet ter. The House had for some time been listening to descrip tions of the evils which afflicted that country ; but these had now, for the greater part, disappeared. British enterprise was entering Ireland. British capital was• insinuating its salutary juices into the veins of that country, with a prospect held out of its producing the most salutary results;. and there w as now a hope, that the tide of affluence which had hem .so long flowing upon Great Britain, would' at last set' towards Ire land. He had as yet avoided every topic upon which any difference of feeling could exist in the House, but there were . subjects on which he did not feel himself at liberty - to be silent : and however disagreeable to others it might he to., totich.on such matters, he could assure them it was not very pleasing to him self. If there were any gentlemen who thought that the evils which affected Ireland could be remedied by. the proceedings of the Catholic Association, he could. not hope to convince them to the contrary by any language that lie could use; but - as a friend to the question of Catholic emancipatimi (which some persons nowlooked upon as the panacea for all Irish evils) he felt bound to say a word upon it. He had paid some attention to the • proceedings of that body. He could not say that he felt a con tempt for them, though lie believed the extent. of their power was greatly exaggerated ; but looking at the nature of those proceedings, and feeling anxious for the success of the general measure to which they referred, he had the most ardent desire fcr its annihilation. No man, who looked at the conduct of the principal members of that body, would be disposed to envy them the station they had acquired in public opinion. Perhaps one might grudge the gentlemen the graceful diction and fer tility of imagination by which they were distinguished ; but the evils which they were likely to produce to the country would be ill compensated by speeches of flawing eloquence and rounded ' periods. The acerbity or public feeling which must be gene-- rated by such orations from either party,.were obvious ; and that would be increased by either party continuing to act as an" organized body. As a friend to Ireland, he-did hope that the violence of the Catholic AssociatiOn On the •one side, and the ravings of Orange insanity on the-other; would no longer be allowed to continue as obstacles to the tranquillity of that coun try. Their effects were already too much felt by many in Ire land. Some persons were disposed to seize every phantom which presented itself to their minds, and exaggerate it to the highest state of disorder ; and though they admitted that some rents were paid, and that some gentlemen could lie down at night with the hope of rising in the Morning` without injury, they still would have it believed that Ireland was in the highest state of insubordination and disorder. He, however, was far from thinking that any such danger existed. He •could state that any information received by his Majesty's Ministers On the subject would not lead to that conclusion. It was how ever said, that the army was increased, and that-was, amongst other things, alleged as a proof of the disturbed state of Ire land. This conclusion was, however, as erroneous as the former. The mention of the intended increase of the militant force of the country brought him to another part of his Ma jesty's Speech. He had in the outset made himself the or gan of congratulation to the House on the general tranquillity Ewa, prosperity of the country ; but it was well understood, th a t e ven while the great trunk of the empire continued in. a. flourish ing and healthy state, some branches at its extremity m ight be in a very different condition. In India; a considerable body of our regular troops had been called into active operation by the invasion of a barbarous force, which it was found• necessary to repress. This happened at a time when arrange ments were made to change the stations of several regiments, so that it was of importance that their places should be speedily supplied. In looking at this increase, however, it was consola tory to think that it would not add to the burdens of the country , as India would pay her own defenders. But, independently of the circumstances which had occurred in India, a view of our situation with respect to several parts of Europe would show that the addition to our military force was not uncalled for. A war was raging in the vicinity of the Mediterranean, which, without imitating other states by supporting large standing ar mies, would justify us in keeping up a greater force in our possessions on that sea than would be barely sufficient to supply the garrison at Gibraltar, or to mount guard at Malta or Corfu' —(Hear, hear !).---The necessity of keeping up a force at Ca nada might also be considered as a ground for this increase in ' our armed force. In the days of our national distress, his , -' Majesty's Ministers had felt the necessity of paring down the expences of the country to the lowest scale by which the public • service could be supported ; but now that the country was in a condition to bear the additional expence, and that the situation of several parts of the empire required the increase in our military force, it could not be fairly opposed. He had: he thought, shown its necessity on local, . but - " might also be apparent on general, grounds. That in the intended addition to the armed force of . the king dom, His Al•tjesty did not anticipate any interruption of the amicable relations which subsisted between him and the other European Powers, must be so plain, that he who ran might read ; but still that increase was rendered necessary bY` . the altered state of Europe at present, - from - what it' was no' ,, very long ago. He must, indeed, be a bold politician who would attempt to predict the result of the present state of a" fairs : but as that could not be with any certainty foreseen/ . it would be imprudent to be altogether unprepared for some ' of its possible consequences. The House .world learn Wit t ' pleasure, that England had concluded her mediation between Russia - and Turkey, and that successfully, and to the satis faction of both parties. They would-also -.hear, with g r atis' cation, of the steps which were in progress. for the more effeel tual suppression of the slave-trade. He lamented that any ob stacle should have occurred to `delay the.final ratification of the treaty which had been-lately entered into with America on this subject. - Of these obstacles he did not complain because they could not be remedied, anti aroseout of the nature of the Amer'' can form of Government. The papers containing the neogoti a : tions on this subject would be laid before the House, and the' would see the nature of the obstacles which had arisen. It tvoull appear th a t a t reaty w hi c h had been ratified by his Majesty, been sent bank with alteratons, and not in minor points, bit one which .was most important, as it referred to the recognitio n of the right of search-tea point which had been suggested by America herself. This delay arose out of the form of the Am!,' rican Government rend er i ng it necessar y th a t a t rea ty, r atified by one party, and exchanged, should be afterwards submitte d to the ratification of another. His Majesty's Ministers did, 09 this occasion ' that which wis highly honourable to themselves' I They offe re d to cancel the former treaty, and to make a ne," l one on the basis of that which had been returned, adopting al e its alterations, except that one which referred- to the right, 0 ` search; and it was to be hoped that the negotiations pendng on the question would arrive at a speedy and satisfactory col' elusion. He now came to a part ofthe Speech which he had 1) .4 doubt would be received with unmixed gratification by t"„ House. It was that in which His Majesty's intention to enter into commercial relations with those South American Province," which had established their independence, was a nnounce —(Hear, hear !)—lt was unnecessary, in addressing tiw o representatives of the first trading people in the world, point out the advantages of such relations: Without the': in the present improved state of the South Amerien" States, the merchant who traded with them must become an adventurer, and commerce itself be turned into speculation , ' In coming to this decision, deep deliberation was necessary' No one could be surprised that Government finally adopted : course of policy which arose out of the altered condition of th provinces, and had become necessary to the new situation r which we stood with respect to them; but, as he had alreatli`, observed, the most serious consideration was required befo e that course was pursued. It would be unnecessary to state , that it never was the intention of Great Britain to interfere be' tween the colonies and the mother country. At a time when a. strong disposition existed in England to fit out armaments fa . ' the assistance of the Spanish colonies (a disposition by whiclh he believed, they were eventually benefitted), a bill was intro duced for the purpose of more fully d ec l ar i ng th e neutrality ° the British Government, and for preventing, as much as 1 01 sible, British subjects from engaging in it. That bill excite': very great opposition, but w as even t ua lly carr i e d •, b ut A t tt time it was passed, all the events which have since happened in that country were foreseen, an d th e consequences calculated with mathematical accuracy ; an d it was an ti c ip a t e d, th o u g h it won"; not be right at that period for this country to lake 07 part in the struggle, 3ret that the time would come will the relative situ a ti on o f both parties would be altered, il n „, a different poli c y p ursue d. Th ese were t h e groun ds u" which the Government had acted. Every informatio n which was sought and could be given on the subjec t .; was readily affo r d e d by his Majesty' s Ministers ; but 0 " all occasions, the determination to act with impartiality h e l tween the contending parties was distinctly avowed. Violet' words could have effected nothing : that which was at last done' was done after mature consideration of the necessity of acting according to the altered state of circumstances. The fairei; test by which a Government co u ld j u d ge o f an y p a rti cu l ar lin of policy, would be by its re-application of it to themselves• - !, He had no objection to let the conduct of England towards th` South American provinces be judged by this test. W e were: country with extensive coloni a l p ossess ion s ; if they g houl revolt, let other Powers act towards them as we had acted to'' wards the South American provinces, and we should not 00' plain.--(Hear, hear !)—He was aware we might have taken