The Sun. — London, England, 1842-04-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. '::!.,,' i II OUSE OF COMMONS, APRIL 5. 4ne Ro use met at the usual hour. he e Clerk of the Crown attended to amend the return I t r n borough of Weymouth and Melcombe Regis. ,tityo;', H ERNAt. and Mr. CHRISTIE took the oaths and seats for the borough 1 Weymouth and Melcombe -, i... 5... • : --TRATARK IMPROVEMENT (N0.."2) BILL. k t JOHN lIANNERS.movect that the Report on h "LI _liilthe received. R. PALMER hoped the Noble Lord would I ,..7zegit to let the consideration of the Report stand until the R e p ort on t h e S out h war k I mprovement titnA t )13 ill, should be brought up, in order that justice k 4, oe done to certain parties whose interest was yved in the measure. Wi l f t.. . , P4 tA.RRINGTON, as. a Member of the Com e° (tattle Bill (No. 1), thought the postponement of Report desirable. ti t i r clrAl- J. MANNERS thought he should not be acting e i x ) ,; by the Committee if he acceded to the Hon. m an ', , fit .. t request. lipid After a few words from Mr. LAMBTON, the House :-.., e d,,,,when there appeared -,' or the motion - 5 6. . }n or the amendment 3 f, Majority f or th e p os tp onemen t —3l '_,p -Earl of MARCH p r e sen t e d p e titions again s t the rtatio n of cattle and live stock under the projected i A. te tt !. WALKER-presented four petitions for a repeal .11:e orn-law. . ti‘ i m i 1- 1. VANE presented a petition against the pro duty4 of 4s. on coals. o T. DLTNCOMBE presented a petition from 260 N r il ers against imprisonment for debt. !i i , „ II- DOUGLAS presented petitions from the toe, 4 ."e cork-cutters, the leather-cutters, and other per so Liverpool, against theaaroposed reduction of duty 1;::,"°4e branches. of trade. - Ai r ~ - MAYNOOTH COLLEGE. itilii,, 15 AYLEY COCHRANE presented a petition ~;tanridport, against.-the grant to Maynooth College. Pts,,P t ltin PECHELL presented a p etition against tbe •,,,,r . ",'ed scal e of duties with respect to boots and shoes. the 1 -,, CORN-LAWS. th e ' -r ERRAND presented upetition from some place, thk,eonnty of Kent, prayine'that the present protec ku., British agriculture might not be interfered with. lab.,, r • VILLIERS presented a petition from 3,160 in liiil'`ants of Darlington, stating that they considered the k w lsterial proposition for the alteration of the Corn ktott mere mockery, and praying for their immediate tal repeal. Also petitions,, with a similar praYer, the working-men of Barnard Castle, from Tu n tt,r Wells, from Blackley in Lancashire, and from ral other places. • % , SCIENTIFIC INSTITUTIONS. N s h.EMBLE presented petitions froni several per tlin e c cted with scientific • institutions praying that .4,- onne , 4 ) . institutions might be exempted fro the payment "tea and taxes. lifr'THE TARIFF. ittALDAM presented a petition from Leeds against 4i t?rati on in the duties on leather. kn i t( ' WORSLEY presented a petition, agreed to at a tie li C e .„'neeting, in Lincoln, against the Corn Importa latit:"'ill, and the proposed Tariff, -stating that the 11 14 knera regard . with extreme - alarm, the redue• ilel °f duty on corn arid other articles, and espe- Athat articles at present prohibited were to dmitted at a low rate of duty. The Noble 14. moved that the petition be printed, and gave notice l -Ze should, to. morrow, draw the attention of the kr ttee to what occurred at that meeting. * i lis M. MILNES presented a petition signed by lo t i",, lla of on e hundred of his constituents at Pontefract, Iti f i s t the reduction of duty on liquorice, in the sew tk ke The petitions stated that this reduction would s„ their en ti re an d i m mediate ruin. They had a tl e eiveniitril embarked in. the cultivation of liquorice ; tt lration occupied three years, so that they could at once withdraw that capital, while it employed a number of the population. They, therefore, „hil °4 thi s l the House not to permit so large a change in the i l ' t4 article. • ~NOTICES OF MOTION.—GREECE. to k i'- I. OMLINE gave notice that on Tuesday, the 19th, 11; 111 d move that there be laid before the House cer- SrPers, re'ating to their diplomatic intercourse with Ndom of Greece. c iti, , TEIE INCOME TAX. lif i ' wILLIAMS gave notice that when the Report 4 " , 1 'v e elll6 ine tax resolution was brought up he should i , ti i4 eertai i i anandinents, to the effect that a tax should 4 6 4 Posed on all..payments out of the public revenue NI, ' h certain sum, on the principle of the sliding scale, 'liti e ;at real roerty. in,descending to heirs should pay . to the amenmount as personal property. fit . „, - • . LEAVE OF ABSENCE. NC ) v• S. O'BRIEN moved for and obtained leave of ‘ . l .4e ° for a fortnight fur the O'Connor Don. t.' ' , ki TURNPIKE TRUSTS. 914 )4 . SUTTON rose to move for leaVe to bring in ft-- to continue for a limited term Local Turnpike 44'4 40 (1 to provide for the better regulation of Turnpike ant'il Eng'and and Wales. Considering the great : 1 / 4 1, i; of wealth—a sum exceeding 7,ooo,oooL—that i 'lieri: e n invested in this kind of property ; eon 't ,S the nature of . the securities on which ' ha da l been advanced, and the state in L I% %any of those trusts were now placed, 44- tithe effect the great increase of railways ,7 1 114,,,a( 1 , and would have, in the traffic on those "kti v '' 'rota which traffic the revenue of the trusts was. 4 ?is; ( I, he was sure the blouse would see that it was kis,,lpedient to enact sonic measure that should im kNl t ile securities of the mortgagees, should maintain hi re pair the roads, and, if possible. guarantee the t st ti4l ,Yet ceitain repayment of the monies advanced. 1 11 .154 - •lle explaine 1 the provisions of the Bill he pro kt,s,,,.L° intr o d uc e. he wished to say that it was not his ''.'N"'°n to e xtend its operation to those roads which tr 11 0 t under the management of trustees, or to those , k 1“ )i t l; the maintenance, and repair of which were pro- N i t ' for by special Acts; neither did he intend to in -1,14i: i in the provisions of the Bill those trusts to which ta il , 'lad been advanced by the Exchequer Bills Loan tlimlnbissioners inasmuch as theSe loans were aecompa- Mti e t Y Peculiar privileges and responsibilities with tl i , ,n he did not wish to deal under the present state of 441'e" The trustees, under general local Acts, were s ill aki r ngt necessity, when those Acts expired,. of °tit that a 4 Pnlication to Parliament for their renewal, tense aearroeation was usually attended with Much ex r°Yeis,,„,l42onvenience. He believed that a great im ;!_eonti,;'' Would be effected if the Legislature consented f Pr e , ti e those Acts for a certain and specified time. '„,,."'' 4 kf r !' s ,ed, therefore, that they should be continued r'la,cily, I , (k i of forty-one years ; and he proposed, se t4teli.l.° alter that provision of the present law th e 7 }, 1.1- 1 01 1?ered a single mortgagee to take possession b Piiyi hr _ c tolls and revenues nominally, for the purpose ;tt th„" 6 : - . himself and the other mortagagees. He believed llti "'Power was liable to great abuse, and might tend Itt h in e . , ,1 . • :il ly led to a dimi ,stic,„ on vemence ; anu tout it practic , . !llT''' 2the security of the general body of mortgagees. q t iteration in the existing law would confer ' - t is _ u nefit upon the land, because when the n e "" e anle insolvent, by common law the main nee of of the trust fell upon the land. He (Mr. hti ty ".) proposed, in order to increase the se titilof the mortgagee, to divest the trustees of the t er NI 4 ' 14 4 they. at present possessed of incurring ,%1 4 ; i burde ns , an d nego ti a ting fresh loans—not to Ne, e i n !lt power en ti re ly, but to prevent them unduly ••Nti t ' l.l g it, by pl ac i ng a controlling power in the Exe- N ill Government. Under the existing law, it was ul in- S ti , i ' l b t on the general body of trustees to hold a general r; ' L it e eeting,at which annual meeting the accounts of fltie n ue and expenditure of the trust should D iti ,,,,down for the purpose of examination, and to tad. He proposed that .it should be inCum- N : ° the trust itself to appoint a Finance Com- N 4 ' not exceeding seven in number, and not less i 4 ts tv , , ttii i'°, whose duty was to he to call half-yearly meet '''r the p ur p ose of auditing the accounts of the it4Pe and expenditure of the frust, as well in the esti lit tr. C-- of the - expenses to be incurred by such tieei,n the following half-year; and these accounts '',,•' "se estimates to be transmitted by them to !'ecretary of State, to be approved of by him. i ik SiZ . - the existing law in every instance the ',was not of the interest on mortgage was by a lien ; but not sufficient, for it was not a sufficient security 1 /11 0 111 ortga gee , not from the inability of the trustees 'i ga 'a th il le money, but from their applying this money 'cr's -' " r purposes. He (Mr. Sutton) proposed not 4, th at certain half-yearly .payments should be 4t t . ,( 3 the mortgagee upon a lien upon the "t t' bu t he proposed that it should be incti,_ k ~, the treasurer of such trust to retain in his Ziki 84 , 0 1 part of the revenue of the trust as 4 11.7.• " sufficient to satisfy the creditors, % . _ - "•p,.. ''' be applied to no other purpose whatever. Ot cl khsed that the mortgagees should receive five per ` '::l :it e , s. " annum. Having improved the security, lie did '' "Pose that this sum of live per cent. should be 1 ~ e l Iti the nature of interest, but that it should be ' lptt.i kki lt l4 h P artl y in the payment of interest, and partly in AN, '3'knent of the principal. lie conceived that, ' 1 4 4 Atii i 'innroved the interest in the way proposed by the interest could not fairly be calculated :4 44 - ; . . than f ou r per cent., whilst the remaining t Csnt. should be considered as a first payment of ie„ 1!::Tal of the debt. It had been ascertained by tt I t i tt liWaLtions of an eminent actuary, that the pay , Y'ot Dne Pc; Pent. per annum at the expiration of , • , ' brti , yearaaveeld fairly and . honestly repay the s , `-' Subsequently to this payment of five .' - I ,'-Pi 9 r Itnnuin he proposed• that the second hen t tt . hiliti 74l ahoull. lit for their MOPterWlee 64 rep t air. ‘ etti he: he iit.4 row expinined to the House the , `t,, 4 .. had ill view, anti fio wayht therefore move '"vc' be given to bring in the Biii.-s(HeaF f bear.) 'is lt4 s l.''ff4Poil having been put, / il ;4 '(l . ..tatt '''„_ . ,4 • , f•J",- P PIORI. ) E said that the distress of tbe - 1' ' 4 gli r t - ''' f , 'o•te. t.f..e pti,,nfounded system of railways.— Plaf - i.-er.) li I ad - 1 •is foretold %hat would be the °= the est e ab i lish a mrit 4 yailti.fays throughout the li ty, ` '8 II, ' . 6 !'l b ''filiNEß said that the effect of this Bill aCia i , i 6 : that 1 ,-„,,,,,,,, i ,- Wit ,pgp for more gum 5 per cent. ,ltiit'llinutiediately witiirewn• '*s h .• SUTTON said that that contr.! not be done :' tie,, Is till , . tsv e • ' ' ) Y:tt. , ` , fa-, l 'en given to bring in the Bill. ' ~„,„ .v- i cfotipiEs (IRELAND). 'llt-Nei''''' . 4oT . fii t ivs4 key leave to bring in a Bill for :Lkki,,L ' AI 4413:.0,r3,..es ii 1.re 1 14 . id,.. The measure which he ,N; ' l ts a " ilittoihme 6tic i l y.,,t Aiger es:pi:Wally from that N s it , _; ' i,„ ' ' . -en proposed 171 Ink Roble prede 4t‘ • e ve •.., -^,-, ..acquainted with the sub,,iyel . tte , T 1 lc eo rY gentlen... ' qtate of the law on Nakje- tt w ledge that the preset,., -' , ..41 amend +44- li t •S t i b ‘',...as most unsatisfactory, and requ... -.- I ` ll ta t '"it th; 'eing the case, he should abstain front cits ntii , tt l ,„ . _ . merits of the question, unless the' House ill„'"lpleularly desire that he should do so, until the -*".'4 VQ Is 7. L ° before 'the House. ftS t hen given to bring in the Bill. 3g, 31 ) gi ( 1 ,1 61). 131 • BARRISTERS (ikELAND). Sir V. BLAKE moved for leave to bring in a Bill to alter the law relating to the admission of barristers in Ireland. Lord ELIOT, in consenting to. the motion, wished to guard himself against any misconstruction. He had received no rep.vsentation whatever on the subject, and he trusted that his consenting to the present motion would not be construed into an expression of his approbatio n o f the measure. - He did not think the measure was called for, but he should reserve his opinion until the Bill should be before the House. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. ANNUAL INDEMNITY BILL. On the motion of Sir G. CLERK, have was given to bring in the Annual Indemnity Bill. THE FLOATING BREAKWATER. Lord INGESTIIIE, in rising to bring forward the motion, of which he had given notice, for a copy of the letters patent for England, granted on the 4th July, 1838, to Joseph Needham Taylor, and also for re printing the minute or paper presented by Mr. Bentham to the Navy Board, on the subject of the BreakWaii,r at Plymouth, ordered by the House to be printed Feb. 18, 1 . 812, said that it would not be necessary to trouble the Howe at any great length. The. Bill to which the motion referred, viz., a Bill for the Formation of . u Floating Breakwater, on the principle for which Capt. Taylor had obtained a patent, had been referred to a Committee up stairs. He (Lord Ingestre) understopd that the grounds on which that patent had been obtained were fallacious, and the widow and residuary legatee of Mr. Bentham asserted that the principle had been announced by that gentieman to the Navy Board in the year 1811. With regard to the latter part of the motion he should not press it, as he understood that a sufficient number uf copies of that minute were already in existence. lle should, there fore, merely move for a copy of the patent granted to Captain Taylor, and a statement of the grounds on which such patent was granted. Captain PECHELL did not know what was the Noble Lord's object in bringing forward this motion. If it was to show that Captain Taylor was not the original inventor of the plan, or that the plan itself was not a good one, it became him to make some farther statement to. the House, in order that those who advocated the formation of these floating breakwaters might knew what his objections were. He found that in 1811, Mr. Bentham, feeling annoyed at not being employed in the construction of the' Stone Breakwater at Plymouth, suggested the plan of a floating breakwater on the same principle as Captain Taylor's. The recommendation was made to the Board of Admiralty 'of the day, and consequently was not attended Co. He thought that, in stead.of crying down and putting aside the plan of Capt. Taylor, the Noble Lord, as a brother officer otCapt. Taylor should have, promoted it. Mr. Bentham did originate a plan that would have'cost a million less than the Ply mouth Breakwater, but Captain Taylor's was by no means a copy of it. He hoped that the Noble Lord would not press. the motion. Lord DIG ESTRE had no object whatever but to elicit the truth. From what he understood, Sir Samuel Ben- thain being, in 1811, Civil Engineer to the Admiralty, was asked to give his opinion on the project of erecting a breakwater in Plymouth Sound. Sir Samuel furnished two plans; one of them was a plan of a floating break water, being similar to that proposed by Captain Taylor. Now, the representatives of Sir Samuel Bentham were of opinion that Captain Taylor had obtained his patent on false grounds, not having been the original suggeStor of the floating brakwater. The object of the present motion was , to enable the House, before a Bill that was now before a Committee, passed, to form an opinion as to which was the original inventor of the breakwater. He (Lord I.) meant no disre pect to the service in withholding his titles from Capt. Taylor, for he (Lord I.) believed the usual form was merely to mention Christian names anti surnames. He repeated that in moving for a copy of the patent, his object was only to obtain those details which would show the facts connected with the case in dispute between the parties. Mr. LABOUCHERE thought that this was a subject which the House could not entertain, for they had no jurisdiction over patents, If the parties spoken of •by the-Noble. Lord thought that they were the representa tives of the original inventor, their remedy was, not to appeal to that House, - but to proceed by action in a Court of Law. It was evident, therefore, that if the Noble Lord earried his motion, 116 still could not ad vance his object, for the opinion of that House could not decide any disputel right between the parties. Lord INGESTIUE did not want the Muse tojudge between the. parties. He only wanted the House to know who was the real inventor of the breakwater before it was called upon to assent to a Bill to carry Cap tain Taylor's plan into effect. Sir CHARLES DOUGLAS, in supporting the me•- tion, said that a Company had been formed upon the pa tent which Captain Taylor hal obtained; and there - was now a Bill of Incorporation before a Committe up stairs. Now, as the House would have to adopt or reject the Bill, he thought they should have before thetwevery important fact co'inected with the case, and those facts. his Noble Friend's motion would produce. . The motion was then agreed to. - ORDERS OF THE DAY. Sir EDWARD KNATCHBULL having moved that the Orders of the Day be now read,. the I'arieh Property Bill was read a third time; some clauses were added, and the Bill passed. Sir G. CLERK brought up the. Annual Indemnity Bill, which was read a first time, CORN IMPORTATION BILL. the House then resolved itself into a Committee of the whole House upon - the 'corn :Importation Bill, Mr. GREENE in the chair. Clause 9 having been put, - Mr. BARCLAY rose to move, pursuant to notice, that it was not expedient to make, any addition to the number of towns from which returns are now, made for the cal culation of the averages. The Hoe. Member said that he d;d not mean to expres; any opposition to the -principle Of the measure of the Right Hon. Baronet ; and his only object was to alter one of its details. lie did not think it was necessary for the purpose df attaining the ob- . jects which the Right Hon. Baronet had in view, that any addition should be made to the 163 towns from which the averages had . hitherto been taken ; and ifno. such. necessity • existed, it appeared to him that it would be better to make no alteratiou in that part of the existing plan. The only object of the Right Hon. Baronet in introducing the change was to prevent frauds in the returns. But the Right Hon. Baronet bildself had stated that those frauds had been very greatly exagge rated ; and he (Mr. Barclay) agreed with him in that opinion. He believed further that there had been frauds on more than one side ; and that if souse parties had attempted to raise the price in ordeQ to reduce the duties, there had been others who attempted to depress the price of corn in order to raise the duty. He believed that the frauds which had been committed' had been caused by the expectation of high profits, by the parties snaking large purchases, but still those pur chases were beau fide, and could only` be made at considerable risk to tbe parties.—(Hear, hear.) He was confirmed in his opinion with respect to the proposal of the Rigjst Honourable Baronet, by the speech of the Honourable Member for North Lin colnshire, that Honourable Member having stated that in the opinion of many the introduction; of these towns would cause a depression equal to SS. it quarter, whilst, in his own opinion, it-would cause a depression of 2s. From a statement of the average prices of wheat in 15 agrieultut al and 15 manufacturing towns, it appeared, that out of 54 woaks the average price was much higher in the towns connected with commerce and manufactures, than in those connected with agriculture. If, as he strongly believed, any addition to the towns at which the averages were taken was not necessary to prevent frauds, and as the addition was calculated to excite some suspicion that on one side the average prices might be depressed, and on the other hand that they might be raised, he asked whether it would be desirable, under those circumstances, to make,the proposed addition. If the effect of the addition of 139 towns would be.to depress the average prices to the extent of 2s. per quarter, it was clear that to that extent the clergy would suffer, whose income would he regulated. by the former averages. He would ask the Right Hon, Baronet how he would propose to settle accounts with the clergy under these circumstances? Would he adopt the old system or the new one, or would he adopt a two-fold plan, based partly on the former system of averages, end partly on the present. system, whereby 139 towns were to be added to the present number ? Every dif- ficulty would be removed if the Hight Honourable Gentleman would strike out the •139 towns from the schedule which he proiosed to add. - lie was not. actuated by any hostility towards the .Right Hon. Gentleman's measure in making his present proposition, but while he would bow to the decision of the House on the general principle of the mea sure, he could not alter then the view which he had before expressed of a fixed duty being much prefera.ble to any that should be regulated by a sliding scale. He would conclude by moving, " That it is not expedient to make any addition to the number of towns from which returns are now made, for the calculation of the average prices." Mr. GREENE said that the motion of the Hon. Member was informal, as it must be brought forward when the schedule was under consideration. The motion was then withdrawn. Mr. CHILDERS said, that as he had a motion relative to the averages he would now move it. He did no. mean to obstruct the Bill, but he thought the point was one worthy the conside • ration of the Right Hon. Baronet and the House. Ile did not wish to prevent a greater number of towns from taking the averages, if by that means they would be rendered more sound, fair, and just; but as these averages, if once liaised, may never be recalled, he thought it would be well to consider the subject at that time. His object was that those towns should be intro duced into the new schedules, and that the averages should be taken from those towns immediately, hut that they should not proceed to act upon those averages for the next twelve months, bat that the importation of corn should be regulated according to the old system, so that they might he able to compare the two systems, and discover if there were any substantial difference between the two. It had been stated by lion. Members on bqth sides of the House that the introduction of these new towns would reduce the auptial overage pripe of pqrn in this country, and it would be most important fa areertain that point. The Hon. Member for Somersetshire had stated that in his opinion the change in the method of taking the averages would lower the annual averages by at least 31. to 45., and that Hon. Mem ber was, from his connexion both with the agricultural and trading interest, in the best possible position to term an Pitinion on the subject. In his opinion the duty would be .found very heavy when they came to the higher rates of prices ; but if by a lower rate of averages thp difference should be still farther increased, the inflietim wqqld 1?e fqupd almost intoleFable; He could not perceive any ,reasnn for retaining the hi g h figures of 70s. and 735., unless it was that being the same prices as under the old system, the farmers would bp oleic ready to support th e new one . A not h er advantage of 'taking the averages, as he proposed, was this, that if before next harvest they should reqhiri4 i large supply of foreign corn, they would see whether there was any ten dency to act particularly in those towns where the averages were taken, rather than those towns where averages were not taken, and would be able to detect whether there was any tampering with the averages when prices were rising. It was proposed that `to Ifif;drpe cease its operation in three years, and should titer; L a g,•earfilia4ge in the cp.rn laws, be thought, by an analogy, there ought to be a power to averages at the end of a year. With these obser uja amendment:—" In substitution of • 4,; Bill s up to the Ist of crn change I,— vatictiV he would move ... clause 29, That from the passing o. May, 1843, the duty to be paid on the importation of —4, THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNtSDA j . MOttNriNG. APRIL 6, 1842. cost sh be regulated by the averages of those towns only - which have hitherto made returns in accordance with the . Act 9 Geo. IV.. but that from and after the let of May, 1843,. the duties shall be regulated by the averages of all the towns named in the schedule of the present Bill, unless Parliament shall in the meantime otherwise direct." Sir R. PEEL said, in fact, the proposal of -the Honourable Gentleman was to strike out the whole clause, except the word " ael."--(Laughter. ) The kin. Gentleman oppo•ite thought the existing number of towns ought to be retained, yet the 'fleet of his clause would be to throw them Out. He ought at least to move that the old towns from which the averages Were taken ought to be retained. _Certainly his mo tion was worded in a very extraordinary manner. Mr. CHILDERS said, his wish was to hare the question of • averages settled now. tz.it R. PEEL could not agree to the proposal. The Hon. Gentleman suggested that, when cor n reac h e d t h e pr i ce o f 675; or 68s. nn duty shou'd be imposed upon foreign corn; and he ( Sir. H. Peel) wished to make a few observations upon that point. The proposal formerly made on the other side of the House was, that a fixed duty of Bs. should be imposed uiion • foreign corn, no matter, what might be the price in this country, or how unfavourable to the harvest. That proposal, it appeared to him, would, when the price of corn was high, operate very unfavourably for the consumer. By the measure which he introduced, there would he only a duty upon foreign emn of Bs. a quarter when the price reached ; and lie had reason to comeude that, upoit that riot, his plan was preferable to that of the Opposition. With regard to the proposal of an increase in the !Auntie! of towns from which the averages were to be taken, he had reason to t elieve, from the communications he received, that it woull work siiisfac torily, and that it would produce no effect whatever upon the averages. The Hon. Gentleman said that frau Is were practised both ways—that they were practised with a view to raise the price as well as with a view to depress it. The Hon. Gentleman said they accused the corm-dealer and • speculator with an attempt to raise the averages for the purpose of bringing in foreign corn at a low duty. Now that imputa tion might be justifiable, but it would apply to another class ' of men to try to depress the averages for the purpose of reducing the return. But they could not set one in- just•ce against the other; his (Sir R. Peel's) object in wid , ,ning the range of the averages was for the puipose of preventing all fraud. Mr. BARCLAY rose - to explain, but was met with lend cries of order, in the midst of which he sat down. Sir R. PEEL wished to take precaution against all fraud. . . . He thought that the extent of the fraud had beers greatly ex aggerated, more especially of late years, and his(Sir R. Peel's) object in adding to the number of towns ; was to make fraud still more scarca. He relied on the gradual decline of the duty. He did not attach more importance to the fifteen agricultural towns because they were the chief agricultural towns, than► to the fifteen manufacturing towns. He thought it would be seen that prices were higher in the manufacturing towns than in the agricultural towns. He wished to ascertain the precise average price of corn in the country, and he did think that it was a rational mode of . - pro:we:ling to take the principal towns. He decidedly ob jected to the mode proposed by. the Hon. Gentleman that there should be a double set of return% and that the ne h set of re- terns should come into operation a year hence, for he (Sir H. Peel) thought such a course would necessarily lead to a re newal of the late discuvions on the subject. tie did not be lieve that the averages would be materially effected either way by the proposition which he had submitted to the House, and therefore he must continue to adhere toit. Mr. HAWES said he understood the Right Hon. Gentle man to say that his object was to prevent fraud. Poe cry which had been rased for an alteration of the system ot 'taking the averages had been raised by those who were anxious for an alteration in the average price of corn, and the question was, how far the Right Hon. Baronet had lent himself to that object. Ile had written letters to several persons who were largely engaged in the corn trade, to ascertain what was their opinion with respect to the addition of the new towns, and the opinion was almost unanimous that the average price would be lowered. A gentleman to whom he had spoken on the subject, had remarked that the adoption of new towns was confined al most exclusively to districts in which the soil was of an inferior quality. Mr. M'Culloch, in his work, had given the counties of Kent, Essex, Suffolk, Hampshire, 'Rutland. Hertfordshire, Berkshire, and Hereford, as the districts which produced the best quality of wheat ; and stated that the average quality of the wheat grown in Wales was inferior. Let them now see what were the counties selected in which the majority of the towns for taking the averages was proposed to be added. In the county of Kent they added four towns, in Essex three, in Suffolk none, in Hampshire one, in Rutland one, in Here ford, our, in Berkshire four, and in Hertford one. He would now take the great producing'counties. He should assume that there were gr, at producing counties in the south and midland districts, in which the quality of the wheat was inferior to that grown in the counties lie hail just named, and in which but few towns were added. In Lancashire there were three towns added, and in Yorkshire there were fourteen. In Lincolnshire there were ten towns added, in Stafford nine, and in Wales twelve. In the western and southern districts there were added, in Somerset four towns, in Devonshire three, and in Cornwall four. Thus fifty-nine towns were added in the dis tricts in which wheat of an inferior quality was grown, and only twenty towns in those in which the best quality was pro. duced. They were confining the bulk of the towns in the new list, where t e averages were to be taken, to those districts where wheat of an inferior quality was grown. He now turned to the return of towns in the fifteen agricultural and manu facturing districts. They left out London, although acommercial town, and added Liverpool, leaving out London, where the highest price was obtained, while Liverpool, where the lowest prise was obtained, was added.—( Hear, hear. ) They had not kept up the original proportion in those towns, and the greater number were selected from towns where wheat of ass inferior quality was grown. He confessed that he thought the proposed alteration would be against the public. What was the effsct of fraud under the old sysiem? It was at all events favourable to the public. The public gained in a reduction of price by the attempt to work up the averages. But under the new system the reverse would take place, and it they were just they ought to alter the scale and lower the duty. The Honourable Member for Somerset had stated that the present system of taking the averages would be equivalent to a 4s. duty. He thought that the proposed scale of prices, tinder the present Bill, should be tried for a year or two, but that the system of averages under the old should not be connected with it. The Hon. Gentleman did not ask the Government not to bring the present Corn-law into operation; all that he asked was, that the two systems should he tried together, in order that they might be compared one with the other. Was the Government afraid of putting its own system to th a t t es t ? . . (Cheers.) If so, they acre right in the opposition to this pro posal. —( Cheers.) Before he sat down, he would ask the Right Hon. Gentleman to show that he had made as fair a se lect on of towns from the districts growing wheat of a superbr quality, as he had from tho districts growing wheat of an inferior quality ; and if the Right Hon. Gentleman could nut d t that, then he (Mr. Hawes) wow:d contend that the selection of towns would have the effect or lowering the averages unfairly, and would be contrary to the pledge which had b ean given by the Right lion. Gentleman when he first introduced the measure. Mr. DARBY said the Bill ought to be considered as a whole.—lts object was to get rid of the mischiefs of the former Corn-laws, and . one .of those mischiefs was the temptation which it offered to speculators to force up the price of wheat' at certain states of the market. The object of tho present Bill Wa4 to prevent this from being done. By the combination of the London dealers, the average were raised beyond what they were in the country. Was the object of the Hon. Mem ber to keep up that system under which enormous frauds had been committed? He altogether disputed the facts of the Hon. Member as to the country districts, and under these eir eurnstances the fair way was to take the whole of the Bill together. He should oppose the motion. Mr. GLADSTONE sail, before he proceeded toddle more substantial allegations of the Hun. Gentleman, he wished to set aside the assertion that all that had been done had been with die view of doing harm to the public. In a great measure of that kind, calculated to agitate the minds of large classes and interests throughout the country, it was exceedingly desirable, in making any alteration, that it should be done once for all. In any alteration the House should make, it was exceedingly desi • rabic, unless there were very strong raisons to the contrary, that it should be made at once.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Gentleman had complained that all the Government had done in proposing a change in the averages, was done to the detri ment of the public. Now, the Government had set its face against the prevalence, and, as far as practicable, against the possibility of fraud.— (Cries of " Hear, hear.") The plea of the Honourable Gentleman was, that these frauds wore in favour of the public.—( Hear, hear.) This was the sentiment he expressed; he said that though there was great mischief in the frauds as they affected individuals, yet on the whole they told in favour of the public. Tkat would he a sorry plea, even if it were true, but was it true? He would admit that in their apparent effect of lowering the duty, the frauds did seem to favour the public, but in saying that they did so favour the public; the Hon. Gentleman was going counter to all h s own arguments against the sliding scale. What was the great mischief of the sliding scale? That under it speculators had a facility of raising prices, and getting their corn in at :he minimum of duty, and were 'thus induced to hold corn back instead of bringing it to market. The Hon. Gen tleman had refei red to authorities. He ( Mr. Gladstone) could refer to authorities which were entitled to great weight. The opinion of those to whom he referred was., that instead of a change of three or four shillings, there would not be a change of as many pence in the average prices? But let them examine the matter for thems--Ives. He confessed that he had heard with astonishment the statement of the Hon. Gentleman, that in the neighbourhood of the towns selected to be added to the old list, the wheat grown was of an inferior description. He would hardly have been more surprised had he heard it stated that the wheat was of a finer description ; there was as mush ground for the one allegation as fur the other. Tne Hon. Gentleman gave them eight counties, with which the number under the old list was 28, and the number proposed to be added was 20. The total number added all over the kingdom was considerably less than the old list. It appeared also to him (Mr. Gladstone) that die selection of the Hon. Gentleman was altogether an arbitrary one. There were several counties in which the wheat grown was quite as fine as in those mentioned by the Hon. Gentleman. In Surrey three new towns had been in cluded to one of the old list ; Worcester, three new towns to one old ; Somersetshire, four new towns to six old ones ; in Shropshire seven new towns and not one old . one ; and lastly, in Staffordshire, that great manufacturing and consuming county, where there was the finest corn and the highest prices. there was not one single town in the old list, and under the new one eight were included ; so that, in point of fact, those five counties grew the finest wheat in the country. and this would test the very rash allegation of the Hon: Gentleman that there was a total of twenty-five towns. Now he (Mr. Gladstone) would like to know how the Hon. Gentleman meant to substantiate his allegation. Perhaps it would be well to state what had actually taken place with re spect to this new list. The object of it was to provide against fraud, and to obtain more accurately the real price of corn in the large towns, and the desire of the Government was to Ob tain a considerable number of towns of the largest markets. For 'that purpose they communicated with the Chairman of the Board of Excise. and they called on him, in the first place, to make out to them a list of the largest markets, and subsequently to make a correction of that list; and, moreover, to regulate the list of agrieniteral towns, on the ene hand, and the reanufaeturing owns on the other. Now, this was a sim p.o narrative, The Hon. Gentleman spoke of prices in certain towns b:ing 4s. or 53. higher in the manufacturing and com mercial towns than in the agricultural part of the country, and he quoted a return made last September in proof of his proposition. When he ( Mr. Gladstone) stated that that was a particular period, he (the Hon. Gentleman) said, " Yes, but what is true of one particular period was true of another." Why, some thousands of averages bad been laid on the table of the House. 41 . 0 there was not one of those returns that wo uld not show the immense effect that was produced on seve • ral occasions in particular markets, by speculation at that par ticular time, and nothing could be more ludicrously fallacious than that the prices of that county should be a proof of the prices in another part. The Hon. Gentleman had referred, in support of hig viev,:, to the roup s is laid on the table eVtibitin7 tho 4;04r59 prices thg 15 agricultural tow ns , on th e one h an d' , and the 15 manufacturing and commercial towns on the other. Now the prinmple of selecting those fifteen towns was to take the largest markets. • The on. Gentleman blamed the Go vernment for including Liverpool, where very low averages which was, that in every large prevailed instead of high ones. This censure, then, made The case of rtiti ts t t h h e i r s aci lv e n q p i r a o s p e o r s c. it g iz, wao necessatoy Liverpool proved, that in very large towns the averages might renge very low ; for instance, when there was a considerable emsumption of corn imported from foreign places, though the farcign corn was not entered in the returns when it had the tr.,. of keeping down British corn. The thin. Gentleman :sited why leave out London ? It was very true the averages of London were higher than those of the other fifteen manu facturing and commercial towns. No doubt lanidoe was the centre o specUlation ; but the fact was chiefly caussd through the quality of the corn consumed. But it was not ne cessary to exclude London, for if the metropolis were included with the other fifteen towns, the difference in the range of prices fur a long period would be very incon siderable. He had eomrared the averages of the sixteen ma nnfacturine towns with those of the fifteen agricultural towns. He had taken eighteen periods, having three periods in the months of April, August, and December, for six years. Li the years 1833, 1834, and 1835, the' averages were low ; in the three years 1839, 1840, and 1841, the averages were high. During the last three years, the prices in the sixteen commer cial towns were higher than in the fifteen agricultural ones, though this was not universally the case. For ten periods the averages were high in the 16 commercial towns ; in seven periods they were higher in the agricultural ; therefore the notion of the Hon. Member, as to the effect of including Loudon, was visionary. He could assure the House, that the .se:ectionof the towns had been made with out t h e slightest referenge, direct or indirect, to the nature of the districts in which the towns were taken ; and these had been taken, not with any intention on their parts of unduly influencing Vie returns ; their only object hart been, to range over the different districts, Sc that they might insure mum s from the various markets spread over the country. Mr. lIA IVES said, that the Right Hon. Gentleman liad given no answer to the statement hated made, that the nums ber of towns selected from the districts which grew the finer kinds of wheat was not proportioned to the number of towns which grew wheat of an inferior quality. He repeated that assertion; and he believed that the result of such a -system would be unduly to lower the averages, and of course to increase the duty. He did not, however, throw out any imputation against the Government; and he did not mean to say that they were influenced by any improper motives in the proposal they had made. Sir E. KNATCHBULL made a few observations which were very imperfectly heard in the gallery; but he was under stood to say that the election of towed had been made upon the fairest principle. Mr. GLADSTONE explained. Mr. VILLIERS said he could not understand why these towns had been added. According to the Right Honourable ' Baronet opposite, searely any fraud existed, and under the old system it had been altogether exaggerated; according to the Bight Hon. Gentleman, the Vice-President of the Board of Trade, the addition of these towns would produce no material effect. Where, then, was the use of the alteration now propo sed ? ( Hear, hear.) Ho believed,- however, that the effect of the alteration would be to lower the averages, and the presumption therefore was, that it would arso have the effect of raising the duty.--(Hear, hear, and cheers. ) The Hight lien. Baronet did not attribute any evils to the old law—he had said that it was not the cause of the distress—he had said that he did not profess to expect any benefit from the new law. All the Hoa. Gentlemen opposite had said that the object of the law was to leave the protection as it was. Why, therefore, did they seek to add fresh circumstances of doubt? What merchant would enter into the trade until he had ascer tained what would be the effect of the new law? How could they expect anything like regularity of trade until the effect of these alterations should be ascertained? The old law hail al ready produced mischief enough without adding a further cause of mischief to it. Ile should suppurt the motion of his Hon. Friend for doing away with these, towns altogether, and also the motion of his osher 800. Friend, in order that the public might have an opportunity of judging of the effect of the measure. He was at a loss to r onceive how the opposition to the latter motion could be justified. The Right Honourable Ba ronet had said that his objection to the motion was, that it would revive the discussion ore the whole subject next year, and the Right Hon. the Vice-President of the Board of lrade had said that it was desirable, in the legislative settlement of a g"eat question, to introduce such a measure as should settle the questiun at once and finally. Now, those expressions ex hibited a degree of simplicity that he had hardly expected from Gentlemen on the other side. He had hardly expected to have heard this Corn Bill, which the Government had assured the agricultural interest would not diminish one iota of the pro tection—he had hardly expected to have heard this Bill denomi nated the great legislative settlement of a disputed matter.— ( Hear, hear.) Did the Hon. Gentleman suppose that the people would be so imbecile as to cease from agitation ins con sequence of this Bill ? On the contrary,ahey would only agi tate in a ten-fold degree—(Cheers)—until they had obtained a total repeal of these laws.—(Cheers.) What did the present measure amount to? It atimunted to an acknowledgment of the principle for which the people had all along been contend ing. Last year they had been told that the old law was per fection—that it had worked well. They however continued the agitation, and this year an alteration had been proposed in the law. That was a concession of the principle ; in fact, everything had been conceded except a substantial change. This coxed not be considered as ea legislative settlement of a great question, for the people would never cease to agitate until the great principle which had been conceded should be fully carried out, and the law be totally repealed. The enly reason which he could imagine as inducing the Government to oppose the motion of his Hon. Friend was, that they must have a doubt upon tpeir minds as to what might be the result of the addition of these towns. if they had no doubt on the subject, why should they oppose the motion ? Mr. HARDY said it appeared to him that the reason of the towus being added was to prevent fraud. By increasing the number of the towns, they increased the sphere of opera tions for those who might seek to practice fraud, and thus ren. der it very difficult, or wholly impossible, for such persons to carry on their fraudulent practices. Mr. LAI3OUCHERE said, that the House having decided, on adopting the principle of the sliding scale, it became, from the moment of such a decision, only desirable that they should construct the system of averages so as to guard as far as pos sible against fraud. He (Mr. Labcuchere) thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Vice• President of the Board of Trade, in- referring to what tire Hon. Member for Lambeth had said on this subject, had not dealt quite fairly with what the Hon, Gentleman had said. The Right Hon. Gentleman said, " You justify fraud; you say that fraud is a benefit to the consumer." The lion. Member for Lambeth had never said that fraud per se was a benefit to the consumer. What the Honourabl r Member said was—" That under the existing system of Corn-laws the operation of fraud, to which that system gave encouragemetit, had had the effect of bringing into the market foreign wheat at prices at which, tooter other citetimstances, it could not come into the market." In that sense the lion. Gentleman had said that if they ren dered frauds less practicable they would injure the consumer that was, that they would prevent foreign wheat coming into the market, and thus injure the consumer. He must say that the list on the table appeared to be free from many of those ob. jections to which the first list was liable:; but as far as regarded its practical operation, there was no very great difference. However, anything that could be said on the subject must be coejectura!, and, for his own part, h e wou ld pre f er t h e op i n i on of so intelligent eorn-dealer on the subject to the opinion . of, any Member of that House.---( Hear.) When the subject was first discussed in that House, he stated that he had been informed by persons on whom lie could place reliance, that the °fleet of the new towns would be to influence the advertised averages to the amount of 55., but on looking at the documents on the table, he felt bound to acknowledge that he had over stated the effect.—(Hear, hear.) He did not think the adver-, tised averages could be affected to that extent, but he must also say that he was by no means convinced that the averages would not be affected. It was remarkable that till the Hon. Member for Sussex said that the averages would not be affected, all persons, on both sides of the House, the agricultural or commerci a l i nterest, whether the Honourable Member for Lincolnshire, of the Honourable Member for Somersetshire,whether belonging to who hail spoken on the subject, were agreed that the averages would be affected. Upon the whole, therefore, in the position in which lie stood, if his Hon. Friend the Member for Malden should divide the House on his motion, he should feel bound to vote for it. But what ever course he might take am it, he hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would do this, that lie would allow a separate account of the averages to be kept in the towns where they had hereto fore been taken, and where they were now proposed to be taken. There was no difficulty in doing it, and by that means they should be enabled to judge of the operation of the system. It would not, of course, completely meet the case, but they should see What was the working of one of the elements from which they apprehended that these effects might be produced. Lord WORSL EY thought that, taking the averages in these new towns would not produce the effect the Right Hon. Baronet anticipated, in preventing fraud. He thought it would make fraud more difficult—( Hear, hear)—inasmuch as three or four individuals, who by getting stocks of wheat, and selecting per sons to make sales of them, over and over -again in different markets, had affected the averages, would now have to employ more agents. Fraud could be rendered more difficult, but could not be absolutely preveeted. He did net think that the effect of taking the averages in these towns would be to lower the average by 2s a though there was a general impression among far mers that it would do so. He believed that the farmers considered the scale of duties not sufficiently protective, and, therefore, seized on anything that they considered would secure them some protections. But he should not be doing his duty as an agricultural Member if, there being not a sufficient protection for the farmer, lie attempted to gain it by anything like a side wind. He did not place much reliance on the fact of there being Meets manufacturing towns and fifteen agricultural. hus Guildford gave an higher average than' Liverpool, but then the wheat of Guildford was of the finest sort, used by confectioners, while the return from Liverpool included the in ferior Irish wheats. There was not a fair return from these two towns. He would vote ins favour of retaining the towns, because it would make the Bill better, though it would not cure all the evils he complained of. Mr. HOWARD was also in favour of retaining the addi tional towns Mr. CHILDERS did not intend to divide the House on that occasion; but he should certainly divide upon the subject when the 29th clause came under the consideration of the House. Mr. AGLIONBY said that before the discussion was dropped, he wished to ooserve, that the• admission formerly made, that frauds had been committed; seemed now to be retracted by Hon. Gentleman opposite. He could not con ceive the grounds of that alteration of opinion, and he did not find that any reasons had been assigned for it. In his opinion, there were many inconveniences inseparable from the system of averages, and he believed that the only remedy for the evils would be the adoption of a fixed duty.— (Hear.) Ile had reason to know, that in the neigh bourhood of Carlisle, there had been a difference in the averages ,of from 35 to 10. He now wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet to what extent he thought the amount of collect.. ing the returns might be reduced by the alteratiens which he contemplated, and how he expected the additi on of so many new towns would affect the returns ? Sir R. PEEL sai 1 that it would be difficult for him to say what might be the extent of the reduction of the expense of collecting the averages under the new system ; but he had reason to think that they would ba collected by the excise for a less sum than the present amount. He did nn,: deny that fronds had been committed. There were, certainly, great frauds committed under the old system, and it was difficult to say to .what extent frauds may increase. Perhaps he should not call them frauds, but i f ti r t a ls u(:vsOuld be pre ven t e d. 'hou g h not com binations, or speculations, with regard to corn, for th e purpose of gain, but he did not thinki they were so ext ens i ve as the Hon. Gentleman opposite seemed to suppose; b ut b y the ad d tion com pletely of l prevented townsthat he ot f rtahoodusg cf t wthatfrauds for the purpose of raising the prices of corn and diminish ing the duty, and frauds for the purpose of diminishing the price and raising it when persons had large stocks on hand. He must say that the 'Hon. Gentleman was not strictly cor rect in stating that the price of corn must vary with the port. He would show him that the price of corn in counties— not great producing counties—was hi g h er than in counties producing the .best wheat.—.(Heat., hear , .) In those places which were free from the influence of foreign corn, the markets woold . be higher than in thos e p l aces which produced better wheat. He thought that the price in Leices ter would be higher than the price in Essex or Kent. The smaller the number of towns, the greater would be their influ ence in those places where corn was imported ; and the greater the number of inland townsohe more would the influence of those towns, which imported corn from Scotland and Ireland, ! be reduced. The more those towns were diminished, the mere would the influence of the others be. increased. If the Hon. Gentleman wanted fully te carry out his principle, he ought tiro raquire that is one or th e towns the old met h od of taking the averages should be retained. The Right Hon. Gentleman had said that one of the causes tending to produce a lower tate of average would be the employment of excise officers to take the averages instead of the corn In spectors. Therefore, in order to carry out his .pika, ciple fully the Honourable Gentleman ought, in ~dditian to his motion respecting the new towns, to move that in one half of the old towns the averages should be taken by the ex ' ei4e .14ve:e, and that in the other half they should continue to be taken les the inspeetors, as at present, in order to try fairly what woula be the effect of the increased vigilance of the ex cao officers. He trusted the Committee would adopt the clause as it stood. Mr, P. M. STEWART said that he considered the system of averages as one of the great evils inseparable from the slid in;; scale.—( Hear, hear.) If they were to legislate mail doomsday, they would never do away with the inherent vice of the system of averages.—( Hear, hear.) In Scotland, the averages were struck before a Jury, in the presence of the Sheriff ; yet, even under that system, there were constant complaints of fraud. It was impossible to prevent fraud in striking the averages.—(Hvar, h ear .) I t was, h owever, t h e i r duty to do the best they could. He thought the addition of the new towns was a great element of correction in taking the average;. The additional 9.59 towns was made for the purpose of obtein ing a bone fide return of the prices of wheat throughout the country. The greater the number of towns from which the averages were taken the more they scattered the power, and . rendered powerless those who attempted fraud in the markets. He pie Stewart) was, therefore, surprised to hear Hon. Gen tleineti on that side, who like him condemned the Bill in prin ciple, hut who thought it their duty to make the best of it—he was surprised at the arguments used in favour of a restricted number of m ere ets. The old system irieluded tow us which ought net to have been included; and excluded others. Now the net: list renseslieil this. He had only one other remark to make, and that was that. when the Right lion. Baronet was in search of good markets only, why did Ire not cross the border and take three or four celebrated markets in the south of Scot land? It might be said that they would find but a bad sample if wheat there, but he begged to say, and there were lion. Gentlemen on both sides of the House interested in land, who would support him, and more especially his Hon. Friend the Member for Haddington, when he stated that there was no market in the United Kingdom where there was such fine wheat or such high prices as the Haddington market, and he ( Mr. P. M. Stewart) asked why, when they were in search of markets, they did not go to the Haddington and Midlothian markets ? Str R. PEEL said the averages in Scotland were so very unsatisfactory, that he begged to decline introducing them into his proposal.—( A laugh.) Mr. P. M. STEWART denied that. This was a ques tion of great importance. The Right Hon. Baronet having had his joke, he (Ur. P. M. Stewart) begged to say that he should wish a further reason. lie was serious, and he could assure them that the markets he had mentioned were two of the best. in Scotland. Sir R. PEEL made some remark, but in so low atone of voice, and with his back to the reporters' gallery, that we did not hear the observation. Dr. BOW BIN G confessed he felt some surprise at the many observations which had been made with respect to those ave rages. He was surprised to hear the advocates of a free-trade principle receive this new system of averarges. The effect of this new system would be to increase the amount of the duty, and he thought the Hon. Gentleman who had spoken last was not aware that it must materially affect those interests he had so well advocated. Now these averages produced an effect, or they produced none. It was quite clear they interfered with a great number of arrangements which depended on the old system, and a great many contracts had been entered into, grounded on the old system. The Right Baronet proposed to disturb them, and he ( Dr.Bowring) believed it would produce disadvantages to the interests he was anxious to protect. The effect of the addition of 150 new towns, would not be to de crease the general average. The nearer they went to places of production, the lower the price would be ; and the lowering the price; caused the duty to be raised. The effect of the new system must be to lower prices, and consequently to in tireaee the duty ; and to the extent it was raised, to that extent would sacrifices. be made by those who were al ready oppressed by these restrictive and prohibitory duties. Now, the Bight Hon. Baronet was not satisfied with the pre sent averages, because the average now taken had a tendency to diminish the amount oil duty; and he, therefore, proposed a more stringent system of averages. The public had some sort of benefit in the collusion or fraud, as it was called, in raising the prices of corn, in order .that the amount of duty should be lowered, for by that very collusion the price was lowered to the consumer. It, therefore, dip appear to him that the new system must be pernicious to the consumer. He therefore, could wish to see the proposal of the Right Hon. Baronet worked under the system of the old machinery The amendment was then withdrawn, Mr. WAKLEY said, he thought ili proposal of the Right Win. Baronet was one that would seriously affect the health of the community, by being the means of introducing corn that would be unfit for consumption.—(Hear, hear.) Under the proposed system of taking the averages, there would be the greatest inducement to send wheat of a very inferior description into the market for the express purpose of saving the duty. Ile therefore wi-lied to propose, that nowheat which should be found to be unfit for the purpose of human food, should be returned to the excise officers appointed under that Aut. He admitted that there would be difficulty in distin guishing the good from the bad. He admitted it would require cnns.derable judgment in the party in all cases, to determine whether the wheat wat fit for food or not. He should theref ire not press the motion to a division, but he had brought it for ward in order to its consideration by the Right Hon. Baronet, for it was really a most important subject, and one that ought not to be dismissed hastily. But he felt it would he useless to submit the question in the form of a motion, but he really hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would give it his attention Sir R. PEEL said he should not like to leave such a subject to the judgment of an Excise officer. Mr. M. GIBSON said the sliding scale did not do what the Right Hon. Baronet professed, viz. admit corn when it was wanted, because when corn was scarce there was a great want of good corn to mix with the inferior kind. Mr. BROTHERTON said the best thing to" do was to abandon the averages altogether.--(Laughter.) One subject had not been referred to in the course of these debates, viz. that or the currency. When they got to a metallic ettrrency the price of corn would keep low, and the increase of paper would cause prices to rise. It was, therefore, quite impossible that the system of averages could be good, anti nothing could convince him that such was the case. Atter a few words from Lord Niroasr.wr and Mr. FOR sn:a, which were inaudible. Mr. HAWES said he thought what had fallen from the Hon. Member for Finsbury was of very great importance, and he hoped the suggestion would be carried out. 'I he greater the number of towns, the greater number of places likely to suffer from an introduction of bad wheat. He hoped the lion. Member for Finsbury would pres s th e su bj ect, an d he (Mr. Ilawes) - should be most happy to give him his vote. Mr. GLADSTONE said the Hon. Member f.,r Finsbury admitted that there was great difficulty in carrying his Proposal into effect, and he (Mr. Gladstone) thought this was the greatest objection to it. The Honourable Gentleman who had just sat down had advanced his opposition to the proposed mode of taking the averages, as it would materially in crease the introduction of bad wheat. Ile (Mr. Gladstone) differed with the Honourable Gentleman. In the first place it assumed what was quite contrary to the fact, because it. was assumed that the new towns were merely the centre of produc tion, and not the centre of consumption, whereas the new towns were composed in the same proportion of the producing towns as the consuming towns are in the old list. It appeared to hint (Mr. Gladstone) that the sales of damaged wheat were more likely to take place in large towns, as a great quantity of it was used in manufactures. It was used for the purpose of making starch. He thought it was perfectly impossible to separate such wheat from the returns. They might rest cer tain of this that very litile such wheat would be entered. Mr. AGLIONBY said the proposal of the Hon. Member for Finsbury might be difficult, but it was not impossible. He would take the price of los. where the return was made of corn sold in the market, and that all corn sold for less than one-third of that price should be excluded from the average.— t Hear, hear.) When the :best corn fetched a certain price that all corn sold at less than one-third of that price should be excluded. Air. MARK PHILLIPS said he wished to correct a mistake of the [light Hon. the President of the Board or Trade when he stated that much damaged flour was used in manu factures. He (Mr. M. Phillips) could assure the Howe that for the purpose of manufactures the very best sort of flour was use I, and for the purpose of finishing off cottons, the flour was generally obtained from the United States. The slightest tendency to unsound flour rendered it unfit for the pur pose of the manufacturer. - Air. W A KU.: Y said if he had to propose a remedy, it would he one not relished by the Hon. Baronet, as it would be to make the trade in corn entirely free, but that would not exactly suit. the provisions of this Bill.—( Hear.) The clause was then agreed to. Clauses 10, 11, 12, 13, 14,15, 16, and 17, were also agreed to. On clause 18 being proposed, Mr. AGLIONBY said, he objected to this clause, because it did net place the inspectors in the city of London, and those in the other towns in the kingdom, upon the same footing. If any inspector had been guilty of fraud or misconduct, he ought to be subject to immediate removal. He also objected to the proposal to give compensation to the present inspectors. He thought that where individuals had not been convicted of neglect in the performance of their duty, they should be re tained in office. Sir 11. PEEL said there was a power vested in the Justices of the Peace of removing individuals who had been guilty of a clear neglect of duty. It was considered, however, that it might be desirable, in some eases, to relieve from perform ance of the duties of inspection an individual who had been guilty of no such neglect, and, therefore, a power to that effect was proposed to be vested in the Treasury. He could not understand the extreme jealousy of vesting in the Executive Government the power of removing the inspectors. He would venture to promise that in every case of removal the grounds of it should be stated to the House. After a few words from Lord WORSLEY and Colonel SIB. THORP, Mr. A GLIONBY said he would not trouble the House by pressing the point which he had brought under their Attention, but he wished to a•k the Right Hon. Baronet what was the in tention of the Government in proposing these clauses ? Did they intend to dismiss the present inspectors on giving them compensation, and vest the duties in the officers of excise? Sir ROBERT PEEL—The inspectors' authority would cease under the new law, but it was the intention of the Go vernment to retain every officer qualified for the duties imposed by the Bill ; but certainly the Government had no intention of removing them all, and giving them compensation. He could not state more exactly at present what the Government would do with those officers, but they would be treated with every consideration. Clause 18 was then agreed to. The following clauses to 23 were next agreed to. Lord WORSLEY postponed his amendments to clauses 23 and •2-1. On clause 2d being put, Mr. THORNLEY hope l the advantages of the new law would be extended to the United States, by allowing their ports to participate in the advantages enjoyed by Odessa and the ports of the Baltic. Lord WOHSLEY rose to propose an amendment to this clause. He said he was anxious that the averages should be taken at a longer period than that proposed by the Bill. He thought it would be advantageous if the period was ex tended to ten weeks instead of five. It would benefit the farmer by giving a fairer average throughout the year, and be an advantage to the consumer, by giving an opportunity of gettinc , a supply of wheat from a grater dittalice. He moved that the blank in line 33 be filled.up with the word " nine." The Noble Lord stated, in referring to the great meeting at Lincoln, that he had asked the opinion of a staunch Conservative as to the plan of the Right lion. Ba. ronet, and he said if he had been in the House he should have voted against all the propositions of the Right ilon. Baronet. Col. SIBTHORP opposed the amendment, expressing his astonishment that the Noble Lord should profess himself the farmers' friend, and yet sit and act with those who were en deavouring to ruin them. The Noble Lord wanted to have the averages extended to ten weeks, because it would facilitate, the importation of corn. Now ho (Col. Sibthorp) was not for an importation of corn, and he believed the farmers were not for it either. Nlr. R. PALMER supported the amendment of the Noble Lord. Mr. GLADSTONE apprehended that there was no ob jection, on principle, to the proposition of the Noble Lord; it must turn on what would be most convenient in practice. It must be considered how very differently the proposal would act under different circumstances. When prices were rising, he was a f r aid it would postpone the reduction, while th e e ther hand, when prices were falling, the farmer would be o.siposed to foreign competition long alter he would otherwise be. It was well known that the turns of price in the corn market were very sharp and sudden, at a particular season; during five or six weeks before harvest there was a great rise, and in the six weeks after harvest there was a great fall. His conviction was that, on the whole, no arrangement could be made more fair to all parties concerned than the fixing the average at six weeks, as under the Bill. Mr. P. STEWART opposed the amendment. He had contemplated makinz a proposal diametrically opposite to that of the Noble Lord. From alt experience of the working of the Corn-laws, ever since they were passel, it appeared that, to secure the greatest accuracy in the averages, the period was limited. When they were an exporting country, the averages regulating the exportation were, at first, limited to the Neekly returns, and finally to the market price on the day before the exportation . From the t ime the country became apprehensive of needing a supply the present system of averages was intro dared. He considered a limited period ensured greater ac curacy. He was glad that the Noble Lord bad no chance of carrying his amendment. In his opinion, the shorter they made the period for ascertaining the averages, the more would they he likely to succeed in carrying out the new law with ad vantage to the community at large. Mr. CHRISTOPHER approved of the amendment of his Noble Friend (Lord Woreley), which he thought would have the effect of giving greater steadiness to the markets. Colonel SIBTHORP repeated his opposition to the amend ment. Viscount. EBRINGTON supported the amendment. Ile thought that the longer they made the period for taking the averages, the more likely were they to obtain steadiness of price. For his part, he should wish that, instead of " ten weeks," they might substitute " ten years ;" and then they would have a nearer approximation to a fixed duty. Colonel T. WOOD thought that the proposal of the Noble Lord would be pernicious both to the consumer and to the far mer. That would only have the effect of preventing the im portation of foreign corn from being proportioned to the wants of the country. Mr. E. BULLER supported the amendment. Mr. G. PALMER also supported the amendment. In his opinion it would have the effect of discouraging those frauds which had of late years been so extensively practised. Sir R. PEEL said that various proposals had been made to Government to extend the period of taking the averages ; some persons reccommended 10 weeks, others 4 and 5, and that the period be extended to 13 weeks. But upon consider ing those different proposals, and examining what the opera tions of them would be, he must say that the impression on his mind was that any extension of the period of taking the averages would not operate at all as a check upon fraud or speculation, because the speculator would calcu late the advantages he would have in pouring corn into the Market during the extended period, and consequently his mo tives to fraud and speculation would be increased rather than diminished by the extension. He (Sir R. Peel) confessed that the result of the inquiries made by himself and his eolleagues was, that an extended period would operate, occasionally, inks. riously to the consumer by keeping the duty high at a time when it was important that it should be diminished. On the other hand there were cases in which it would operate in juriously to the producer. lie had given the best attention that he could to the subject, and he was not able to persuade himself that any extension would be attended with good effect. upon the whole he had come to the • conclusion that it was safest to adhere to the period of six weeks. There would be great risk to the consumer, if the period were extended to thirteen weeks. The duty would be high when the price :of corn was high. Referring to past years, it would be seen that if ten weeks were adopted as the period, the same objection would apply. On the other hand the duty would be low when the price of corn was low if those periods were taken. He had, therefore, come to the conclusion that the s ifest course was to adhere to the period of six -.seeks rather than take a longer period. Mr. HAWES was against extending the period beyond six weeks. If the proposition was to extend the period to six months the ease would be different, but in the case of a few weeks he saw no necessity for adopting any change. The Committee then divided, when there appeared— For the original motion For the amendment Majority for the original motion .. --205 The clause was then agreed to. On clause 2S being read, Mr. BAYLEY suggested that the mode of ascertaining the value of corn should be by measure. Mr. WALL ACE said that he had been a member of the Committee which sat on the subject to which the Hon. Gen tleman al!uded, and the evidence produced before that Com mittee was so strong that they considered the proper mode of ascertaining the value of corn was by weight and not by mea. sure. The only proper criterion by which, in his opinion, the value could be ascertained, was that of weight. It was by weight that the corn came to the consumer, and great frauds were committed when the purchase was made by measure. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, that this was not the first time during the course of these discussions, that he had been met by two propositions of a totally opposite nature. Fur himself, he could not agree either to the proposition of his Hon. Friend, or to that of the lion. Member for Greenock. He thought that any sudden enactment would be attended with great incon venience. After a few words from Dr. BowasNa and Lord WoitsLEV. clause 28 was agreed to. On clause 29 being proposed, Mr. CHILDERS said, that as the subject had already been so amply debated, he shodld not detain the House by going into any discussion on the subject. lie should therefore content himself with moving that instead of clause 29, the following be substituted—" That from the pass.ng of this Bill up to the Ist day of May, 1843. the duty to be paid on the importation of foreign corn shall be regulated by the averages of those towns only which have hitherto made returns in accordance with the Act of 9 George IV." Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the Commit tee divided, when there appeared— For the clause • For Mr. Childers's amendment Majority for the original clause —l33 Clauses from 30 to 45 were then agreed to. The schedule, comprising the new scale of duties, was then put. - , Mr. B. WOOD proposed as an amendment that the duty should be 20s. when the price was 455., but which he with drew in accordance with the general feeling of the 'louse. Lord WORSLEY moved the addition, of whi. h he hail gi% en notice, "')'hat every person who shall sell British corn at or within any city or town named in the said schedule her, unto annexed, other than the city of London, shall, be fore he or she shall sell any British corn at any such city or town. make and deliver, in manner hereinafter mentioned, a declaratioa in the fo'lowing words, that is to say : ( Form of Declaration.) I, A. 8., do declare thatthe returns to be made byme con formably to the Act passed in the year of the reign of her Majesty Queen Victoria, intituled (here set forth the title of this Act), of the quantities and prices of British corn, which hence-forth shall by me, or for me, be sold, shall, to the best of toy knowledge and belief, contain the whole quantity, and no more, of the British corn bonafide sold for or by me, within the periods to which such returns respectively shall refer, with the prices of such corn, and the names of the buyers respectively • ad, to the best of my judgment, the said returns shall, in all respects, be accountable to the provisions of the said Act.' " Which declaration shall be in writing, and shall be sub scribed with the hand of the person so making the same, and shall by him or her, or by his or her agent, be delivered to the mayor, or chief magistrate, or to some justice of the peace for such city or town, or for the county, riding, or division, in which the same is situate, who are hereby required to deliver a certificate thereof to the supervisor of Excise acting as inspec tor of corn returns for such city or town as aforesaid, at the place appointed for receiving such returns, or to such continu ing inspector of corn returns as aforesaid for such city or town (as the case may be), to be by such supervisor or inspector registered in a book to be by him provided and kept for that purpose." - Sir R. PEEL opposed the amendment. The effect of the clause would be to discourage sales in the open market, and 'brow much difficulty in the way of the seller. After a short conversation the,amendment was withdrawn. Colonel SIBTHORP then — ro;eTo move, pursuant to ne- Ice, that the duty on foreign corn should be paid at the period ,f importa. ion. He thought that the present system was favourable to no party except the foreigner. It was expeetefl that as soon as the Right Hon. Baronet had passed his measure, 3,000,05)0 quarters of wheat would be im ported into this country, and tne consequence of this inunda dation of the market would be the ruin of the farmer, who would 1.):, unable to pay his rent, an, meet the other charges to ‘dlich he was subjected. Since the Right Hon. Baronet had proposed his tariff, to which he (Colonel Sibthorp) meant to offer every opposition in his power—(" Hear," from the Oppesiti,n)—he hadbeen informed, and the Hon. Members for Lincolnshire would bear him out in his statement, that produce had fallen 25 per cent. in that county, and the farmers were, with deep regret, obliged to lower wages from 2s. 6d. to 2s. 3d. and 2s. The consequence ultimately would be, that whole families would be driven, through distress, into the workhouses of those infernal unions. 'I he cause of all this was to be attributed, to a certain extent, to the Right Hon. Ba ronet's measure, and, in part, to the threatened inundation of foreign corn. Sir 11. PEEL said that he was sure the House would ex cuse him from entering upon the question of the tariff at that time ; but with respect to the importation of foreign rattle, he would show that the apprehensions entertained by his Hen. Friend on the subject were groundless, and tkat great advantage would be derived by the agricultural and com mercial cla'ses, from the removal of the prohibition on the im portation of fresh meat and live animals, and that if a reduction of 25 p.r cent. could be made, on the apprehension of the measure, it would not be so injuri o u s as th e H on . G en tl eman expected. If, as the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman stated, the meat of foreign countries, which was to be brought into eompe titiou with the meat of this country, was absolutely poisonous, he (Sir Robert Peel) would suggest that that was a security against any great consumption of it—( Laughter)—and would diminish the alarm of the capitalists. If what his lion. and Gallant Friend had stated was correct, the measure would not have the effect he anticipated. Lord WORSLEY said that what the Hon. and Gallant Member had stated with regard to the lowering of the price of wages was correct, and he also lamented that it had the effect of lowering the price of corn. Mr. WA KLEY said that Honourable Members ought to be very cautious in making statements with respect to the lowering of the price of wages. The Hon. and Gallant Member for Lincoln said, that the price of wheat in Lincoln shire hail fallen 25 per cent., and that statement was confirmed by the Noble Lord (Worsley) ; but if it were se, the people ought to understand that the people of Lincolnshire were not sufferers, as the price of provisions had been lowered also. But, at all events, people ought to be cau tious in making such statements, as ;other persons would be found willing to follow the example of the people of Lincolnshire. Colonel WOOD said that the Hon. Gentleman had stated that there were three millions of quarters of wheat ready to be poured into the market as soon as the Bill should pass. Now those assertions ought not to be made except upon some accu rate data, as they were calculated to depress still more the price of the corn in the market. The gallery was then cleared for a division, but none took place, the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman having consented that his motion should be negatived without a division. Mr. BARCLAY, in bringing forward his motion for the omission of the new towns from the schedule, would follow the example of the Hon. Member for Mahlon, and not enter any discussion on the subject. After the result of that divisier., he would not trouble the House to divide on his motion, he was merely desirous to have it put, in order that his opposition to the proposition might be put on record. While he was on his legs, he wished to allude to what had fallen from the Hon. Member for North Lincolnshire, respecting the corn merchants. That Hon. Gentleman had characterised their conduct as in famous : now, he (Mr. Barclay) knew several:gentlemen con nected with the corn trade, and he could assuro the House that they were most honourable men. He hoped tho Hon. Mem ber would qualify the expression. Mr. CHRISTOPHER said that it was perfectly notorious that there wa s more i n f amous gam b l i ng and speculation going on on the Corn Exchange than even at Epsom or Ascot. He did not apply the phrase to any particular individual, built was perfectly notorious that the system was a most infamous one. From the r e tu rns on the table of the House, it appeared that in the markets of Wakefield, of Leeds, and of Loudon, the dearer the price of corn was, the greater was the quantity sold. That fact was sufficient to prove that the present system was one entirely of fraud. Dr. BOWRING thought it was utterly impossible that any one could rend er grea t er ser vice to the opponents of a s li d i ng scale, than th e H on . M em ber, who had just sat dow n , h a d ren dered them by his speech. He admitted that the present sys tem was a system of infamous fraud, and yet he said that he would continue that system in order to keep up improperly the price of food. The question was then put, that this word Ctsvontry" stand part of the schedule. After a few words from Mr. Hawes, as to the most conve nient mode of putting the question, Mr. GLADSTONE said that he was desirous of omitting some towns from the schedule, for the purpose of introducing the names of others in which the markets were larger. The town of Newbridge was then ordered to be struck out. The list of towns was then agreed to, and the Report was brought up, and ordered to be received on Thursday. The Report of the Forged Exchequer Bills' Billovas brought up, and the Bill read a third time and passed. The House then Adjourned at a Quarter-past One. FINE ARTS. THE HEROES OF WATERLOO, • This is the title of a fine picture which is now in the course of private exhibition at Messrs. Graves's, Pall-mall, previously to its being placed in the en graver's hands. The figures introduced are all por traits of distinguished officers who f01.4 - ,rht at the battle of Watertoo, and they are supposed to be as sembled in the reception-room of Apsley House, awaiting, the summons to the grand banquet which, for years past, the Duke has been in the habit of giving on the memorable 18th of ,Tune. His Grace is, Of course, tle most conspicuom figure in the grenp; he is stationed nearly in the centre of the picture, so that the spectator's eye is attracted to him at the very first glance. The likeness is a good one, but not remarkable ; that of Lord Hill, who stands near the Duke, is excellent : but decidedly the most striking portrait in the group is Sir Henry Har dinge's, whose peculiarly-marked countenance there is no mistaking. The figure and attitude of the Marquis of Anglesey are easy, graceful, and digni fied; and his magnificent Hussar uniform forms an admirable contrast to the scarlet costumes of the majority of the assembled officers. By way of vary ing and giving relief to the picture, some of the guests are represented in a sitting posture; and here the artist has been very successful, especially in his portraits of Lord Strafford and Sir Edward Iterrison, who are seated together in th e f oreground, to the left of the spectator. On the w a ll s o f t h e reception-room hang two full-length likenesses —one, of the E mperor Napoleon, and the other, of George the Fourth, who cuts a somewhat grotesque figure in the full High land uniform. On the whole, the painting is a skilful and efficient one; the colouring, in particular, is rich without being overcharged ; and from the deeply interesting nature of the subject, we have no doubt that it will obtain great and immediate popularity. COURT CIRCULAR. Lord Hill and Sir Robert Peel had audiences yesterday of the Queen at Buckingham Palace. Her Majesty, attended by Lady Caro'ine Coati: and the Hon. Miss Cavendish, took an airing yesterday afternoon in au open carriage. His Royal Highness Prince Albert rode out on horseback at the same time, attended by Major-Genera WemyFs and Colonel Bouverie. His Royal Highness Prince Albert, accompanied by Colonel Bouverie, attended yesterday afternoon a meeting of the Com voissios:ers for promoting and encouraging the Fine Arts at the rebuilding of the Houses of Pa-liament, Viscount Pal merston, Lord John Russell, Lord Francis Egerton, Sir James Graham, Sir Robert Harry Inglis, and other Commissioners were p •esent. The meeting broke up at a quarter past four o'clock. Their Royal Highnesses the Prince of Wales and the Prin cess Royal, were taken airings in carriages yesterday. Her Majesty and Prince Albert, attend-d by the Dowager Lady Lytlelton, Lady Caroline Cocks, Earl of Warwick, Major- General Wemyss, and Colonel Rouverie, honoured Covent Garden 'theatre with their presence yesterday evening. Iler Royal Highness the Duchess of Kent visited her Ma jesty, the Queen Dowager, yesterday at Marlborough Howie. I ho Duchess of Kent, attended by Lady Anne Maria Dawson, and Sir G. Cooper, Bart., honoured the Italian Opera with her presence last evening. nil Royal Highness the Duke of Cambridra visited the Queen Dowager yesterday at Marlborough-houie. His Royal Highness, attended by Colonel Jones, left town in the afternoon for his residence at Kew. Iler Royal flignnes4 the Duchess of Gloucester vis;tcd her Majesty the Queen' Dowager on Monday at Marlborough House. Her Majesty and Prince Albert did Mr. Sievirr the honour yesterday of inspecting his marble busts of his Royal Highmizs Prince Albert and his Majesty the King of Prussia, previous to their going to the Royal Academy exhibition. Her Majesty and the Prince were graciously pleased to• express their ap probation. Air. Stephen Unevin, Mr. John Overett, Mr. James Fair head, and Mr. Danivl Nash, on behalf of the Growers of Seeds in North Essex, in Bedfordshire, accompanied by Sir John Tyrell, Bart., M.P., Mr. C. Hound, M.P., and Mr. Astell, M.P., had an interview with the Earl of Ripon yesterday at the office of the Board of Trade. Alr. Franks, Governor, Mr. Fullarton, Mr. Gooden, Mr. Stewart, and Mr. Mitchell, Directors of the Canada Company, had an interview with Lord Stanley yesterday at the Colonial Office. A Deputation on the Rice Trade had an interview with the Earl of Ripon yeftertlay. Messrs. Morgan and Brandt, on the Russian Timber Trade, had au interview yesterday with the Earl of Ripon at the office of the Board of Trade. THE COMPLETE SUFFRA.GE MOVEMENT. MEETING OF DEPUTIES IN BIRMINGHAM... Illastilic Nam, 'f MD.% Y..—This morning the meeting of Delegates, appointed at various meetings throughout the Minn. try, to represent the feangs and opinions of the peop.e on the important principles embodied in the Declaration and Memo rial issued by Mr. Sturge, took place in the Waterloo-rooms, Waterloo-street, this morning. There were nearly a handred Delegates in attendance, representing a large and influential portion of the middle and working classes of the country, who have united in a strenuous effort to secure a full, fair, and free representation t f the people. Mr. Feargus O'Connor en deavoured to get up a counter -demonstratian, in tne shape of an open air meeting in another part of the town, but the affair was a complete failure, although the parties engaged in the de monstration were unsparing in their denunciations of the objects and motives of those engaged in the " Complete Suffrage" agitation. At eleven o'clock Mr. Joseph Sturge was unanimously called to the Chair. He said that he accepted the honour the more readily, as he thought he would be able to facilitate business, having seen all the letters which bad been received upon the subject. The Chairman then read letters feint Stratford, Ri pon, Torrington, Taunton, Norwich, Snaresbrook, Devises, Lynn, Alnwick, Hackney, Stockport, Stroud, Ashton-under- Lyne, Bacup, Lancashire, Gateshead, and other places, ex pressive of the disposition of the writers to aid in the present movement. The Chairman said that they might also rely upon having the Reformers of Ireland with them. He begged per mission, for a moment, to advert to a matter personal to him self. His attention having been called, by a gentleman in Scotland, to a statement which had appeared in the Northam Star newspaper, that he (Mr. Sturge) had, in a conversation with a Miss Grave, some time ago, said " That the people of this country never could effect the required change except by the sword, and, when they were prepared for that, that his (Mr. Sturge'a) arm was at their service"—( Laughter)—he could only give this statement the most unqualified denial; and so thoroughly convinced was he of the sin and injus. tice of taking away human life, that he would sooner forfeit his own life than take that of his neighbour. He trusted that neither himself nor his friends would ever recognise violence as a means of attaining the objects which they contemplated. Mr. Wm. Morgan was then appointed Secretary for the sitting, and proceeded to read the list of Delegates, amounting to nearly one hundred, amongst whom were the Rev. Dr. Wade, the Rev. Thos. Spencer, of Bath, the Rev. Thomas Swann, the Rev. 1. Allsop, Delon, Esq., Mr. John Mit chell, Mr. Arehd. Prentice, Mr. Collins, Mr. Vincent, Mr. Lovett, Mr. Childs, of Bungay, Mr. B. O'Brien, and Mr. Hey worth. A Committee was then appointed to examine the claims of all persons desiring to be included amongst the members of the Conference. • The Her. T. SPENCER, in seconding the nomination of Mr. Vincent on tha Committee, paid that gentleman a high corn pliment for the manly and consistent advocacy of his prin ciples, while he manifested, at the sante time, a thorough wil lingness and hottest desire to conciliate all classes for the pro motion of the general good. A Committee was also appointed to arrange the business of that Conference, to whom all papers and resolutions were to be submitted. TLe other business was merely preliminary, and the Convo cation adjourned at Two o'Clock till Five in the evening. Thos. Steele, Esq., Mr. Crawford (son of Sharman Craw. ford, Esq.), and Mr. Webb, were admitted as visitors, and took a part in the proceedings. The question of the Extension of the Suffrage is to be. die cussed at the evening meeting. THE TROUBLES OF THE SQUIRES AND TIER FARMER,. —On Friday last a meeting of the agriculturists of the Chelm. ford Farmers' Club took place at Chelmsford, for the purpose of petitioning Parliament against the alterations as regard the importation of corn and cattle. The meeting was attended by Sir John Tyrrell,: Bart. M.P. ; C. G. Round, F;tq. ; Major Beresford, M.P. ; C. C. Parker, Esq. ; C. Tyrell, Esq., and a very large body of the leading agriculturists. Both the County Members addressed the meeting. Sir John Tyrell urged that the Government should be kept in—that the Whigs wouli propose a worse Corn-law—and that after all the Agri wrists would not he so greatly injured as they seemed to tear. "We have," he said, " lost our leaders. Our general officers have been killed off. We had lost the Duke of Buckingham at one time because he was in office. We have then the Duke of Richmond to fall back upon, but I will tell you what is the position of the Duke of Richmond. After the Corn Bill had been introduced, 1 was going through the lobby of the House of Commons, and I saw him with his son, the Earl of March, and other Members together, and I asked what the Dnke of Rich• mnond Bought of it? The reply was, he stated, " I don't sayl like it, but I think 3ou had b e tt er t a k e it." W e ll, t h en , h e is hors de combat. Then there is Lord Stanley, and Sir James Graham, and others, whom we looked up to as the greatest supporters of agriculture ; they are members of the Cabinet, who say they are determined to stand or fall by the proposition. Therefore we, as agricultural members, are placed in the most painful and disagreeable situation. Mr. Round said, " Yo u may feel very uncomfortable in the frying-pan, but I advise you not to go into the fire." 'the following resolution was adopted, and a petition to the House of Lords was founded thereon : " That the meeting views with alarm and regret the alterations proposed in the Corn-laws and the Tariff, and the removal of the prohibition in foreign horned cattle, sheep, and swirse, and the reduction of the duty on seeds, starch, tallow, and hides, which would lead to the ruin of the tenant occupier, and the misery of the labourer."— Essex Paper. During the 'night before last the portress of No. 17, line de Gramniont, the lit incipal part of which is occupied M. F i ulchiro n , th e d eputy, w h o i s t h e pro rietorol' by M. roused from her sleep by an unusual noise. On getting up and looking out, she saw two men endeavouring to carry off the lead. Returning into her lodge, she pulled a string which leads to bells in nearly all the servants' rooms, and thereby alarmed the whole house, but the thieves, finding they were disco vered, made their way into the street, and fled. Ono escaped, but the other was caught in the Roe do Grety by one of the servants, armed with a cutlass, who, as the man made resistance, wounded him in several places, and then secured him. He proved to be a chi ffonier, namedhis Baudrut. He had a part of his cheek cut off, and other s o •o t a e t i r l d i s y iNivoerlesisseacvecrocin', accomplice , I y W as t . dangerous. He re fusedLICENSED VICTUALLERS SCHOOL.—A draft for affordingoffiin, on t n t e Saturdayeof additional b proof r A o o iels f th u s% 100/. was forwarded t t o hu t s he Whitbread and Co. ; the appeal of the Governor and be Management to liberality of the subscribers will eminently Successful. the