The Sun. — London, England, 1861-02-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS.-(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. THE REPLY TO THE ADDRESS, The LORD CHANCELLOR read her Majesty's reply to their lordships' address on the occasion of the opening of Parliament. GRAND JURIES. Lord CHELMSFORD brought in a bill for the better regulation of grand juries. The bill was read a first time. MR. BRIGHT'S SPEECH. The Marquis of NORMA NBY was about to draw the attention of the house to a recent speech delivered by Mr. Bright, in which certain erroneous statements were made, with a view of correcting them. Earl GRANVILLE said he thought the course about to be pursued by the noble marquis was quite irregular. Earl GREY strongly deprecated the course of raising a discussion upon the matter. He considered the noble mar quis was quite in the wrong. The subject then dropped. CHURCH SATES. A number of petitions were presented against the aboli tion of Church Rates. - PUBLIC BUSINESS. Earl GRANVILLE rose to move the appointment of a select committee on the public business of the house, with a view to ascertain whether any improvement could be made in conducting it. Their lordships were very much in the position of a man who complained to his doetor that he felt so very empty before dinner and so very full after. The difficulty was, that in consequence of the arrangement by which so many measures were obliged to be originated so very late in the other house, the house of Lords had very little bigness to perform in the early part of the ses sion, but it was perfectly inundated with measures as it drew towards a close. He thought the evil could easily be pointed out, but he did not think the remedy could so easily be discovered. It had been proposed that a joint committee of both houses should be arranged, but he preferred that their lordships should appoint their committee as the House of Commons had already appointed one on the same subject. The Earl of DERBY said the difficulty of dealing with the business in their lordships' house differed ♦ery widely from that in the House of Commons. The Commons had a very wide range for inquiry, while in their own case the only difficulty that arose was from the glut of business that had to be transacted just at the close of the session. Taking the Bankruptcy Bill, he thought if such a bill was brought up in July, it might be considered as a matter of urgency, but it would be very impolitic to force such a bill through at such a period, when it was clear it would not receive theattention it deserved. The practice of moving motions of urgency was one greatly to be deprecated. Lord REDESDALE said the way to facilitate the busi ness in their lordships', house was to expedite it in the Com mons. A practice existed in the other house of raising long and irrelevant discussions upon motions for going into committees of supply, which greatly impeded business, and if that was put an end to great improvement would follow as a natural result. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought, although a joint committee could not be appointed, yet from the circum stance that a committee on this subject had been appointed in the other house, their lordships would be kept well in formed of the prOceedings of that committee. Earl GREY agreed that the principal difficulty was in the House of Commons, and that what was chiefly required was to discover some mode of having bills sent up earlier in the session. The evil of the present state of things was far greater than was commonly supposed ; and, unless some efficient means could be found to make legislation more easy, great discredit would be thrown upon our whole par liamentary system. He was convinced that the sums of money which had been wasted for want of some consistent amt steady policy with regard to railways might be reckoned not by thousands but by millions. That was a subject which no less than the public business demanded their attention. After a few words from the Marquis of NORMASBY, the motion was then agreed to. THE ARMY IN CHINA. Lord HERBERT of LEA gave notice that, on Thurs day next, he should propose a vote of thanks to the officers and soldiers engaged in the recent operations in China. THE SUFFRAGE IN ITALY. The Marquis of NORMANBY said he would take an- other :opportunity of calling attention to the statement, wherever it had been made, that the constituency for the elections which had just taken place in North Italy had been as free as possible, th ere by implying universal suf frage. So far from that being the case, the number of electors in proportion to the population was inilaitely smal ler than in any borough or county iu England. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. NEW MEMBERS. Mr. HEYGATE took the oaths and his seat on his election for Leicester, and Captain CLIVE for Ludlow. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The standing orders were reported to have been com plied with in the case of several railway and other private bills. Some private bills wee also read a first time. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented in favour of an amend ment of the law relating to church-rates, and also against their abolition, from the wine merchants of the city of London for the imposition of a uniform duty on all foreign wines imported into this country, instead of a duty accord ing to their alcoholic strength. HOPS, &c. _ _ On the motion of Mr. LOCKE, several returns on this subject were ordered. THE FRANCHISE. Mr. BAINES gave notice that on Tuesday next he would move for leave to bring in a bill for the extension of the suffrage in England and Wales. THE INDIAN LOAN. In reply to Colonel SYLES, Sir C. WOOD said that he had succeeded in obtaining the £3,000,000 loan for the purposes of India. £13,000,000 had been offered, £6,000,000 at the minimum rate of inte rest, but he had succeeded in raising the amount he required below that rate. THE DISTURBANCES IN THE EAST. Sir JAMES FERGUSSON asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether her Majesty's Govern ment had received any information respecting the tribunal before which the Druse chiefs had been tried who volun tarily surrendered themselves to the Turkish authorities ; whether the evidence before that tribunal was in the pos session of her Majesty's Government; whether it was true that these men had been condemned to death ; and, if they had, whether the Government intended to make any representations to the Porte upon the subject? He con tended that the chiefs who had surrendered themselves had been prejudged, and, if the reports which appeared in the newspapers were correct, the proceedings before the' tribunal were a farce and a perversion of justice. If such were the ease, then he contended that it was just and politic for this country to prevent the execution of these men. These Drum s were men of heroic principle, and animated by the same feelings that prevailed formerly amongst the High land tribes of Scotland. He believed these men were as free from guilt in regard to the massacre that had taken place, and, if we did not interfere in their behalf, we were guilty of innocent blood being shed. Lord J. RUSSELL said the tribunal in question was an extraordinary one, but still it was properly constituted. However, from circumstances that had come to the know ledge of her Majesty's Government, they were of opinion that the Druses had not had a fair trial. With respect to their innocence the Government had no means of judgi ng of that, until they had seen the evidence on whi c h they "were convicted. Her Majesty's Government had made arrange ments with the Ottoman Porte that in the event of the conviction of these men none of them were to be executed until the evidence at their trial had been submitted to the European Powers and received their approbation. He asked the Turkish ambassador how it happened that all the Turks who were convicted in respect to the events in Syria were sentenced only to exile, while the Oilers were executed, a fact which had excited the at tent ittia of Lord Dufferin. The only explanation he had received was that, according to the law of Turkey, it was not legal to condemn inhabitants of that State to death under the circumstances. The noble lord entered into some further explanations, and concluded by stating that the European Powers would take care that justice would be done in regard to these Druse chiefs. COMPETITION IN THE MARINE AND NAVAL SERVICE. Sir F. SMITH asked the Secretary of the Admiralty whether it was intended to introduce the competitive system of examination in the selection of cadets for the marine service. He was opposed to limited competition, a nd contended that, if there were any competition at all, it should be open. Mr. BASS expressed a hope that the system of open competition would be applied to the royal navy as well as to the marine service, and strongly objected to the system of appointing boys in the navy merely because their fathers had been in her Majesty's service, and without reference to their intellectual qualifications. (Hear, hear.) DOCKYARD MANAGEMENT. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE asked the Secretary to the Admiralty when the report on the commission on dock yard management would be presented ; and whether her Majesty's Government intended to fill u p the appointment of surveyor of the navy, vacant by the retirement of Sir Baldwin Walker, before the house was in possession o f the evidence taken by that commission. He comp l a i n ed strongly of the mismanagement exhi • bited by the authorities at the dockyards, and he alluded to the failure of the floating batteries eonstnieted during the Crimean war, which proved utterly useless, He thought that before they proceeded further in the build. ing of iron coated ships, they should have sent the Warrior to sea, or tried the e x p er i. meat of iron coating on come of the old vessels that were lying in the docks. Instead of that, however, they were building enormous vessels, some of which would cost £500,000. The officers appointed to decide on the con struction of vessels for the Royal Navy were incompetent for the duty, and he cited the case of Sir Baldw;n Walker, who had no practical acquaintance with si ipbuilding and no knowledge of naval architecture at th time of his appointment, and yet for the last 10 year all the ships that had been built in the dockyards h d been sub jected to his approval. It might ba said that he was furnished with models by naval architects ; but he exercised his own judgment, and complaints were made that he carried out his crotchets of long masts to an injurious extent. Sir JOHN PAKINGTON expressed a regret that the Government had not made experiments on a limited scale before they adopted the principle of iron-coated vessels, and deprecated strongly the d e l a y i n _ _ . _ the launching of the Warrior. He asked for full informa tion as to when this vessel would be sent to sea, which he hoped would be with as little delay as possible. After a few words fromUr SCULLY against the system of half competition and half nominatian in Ireland, parti cularly in the constabulary, Lord C. PAGET said he thought the naval discussions had been commenced very early this session. He hoped that he should be able to lay the naval estimates upon the table in a few days, when they might have the whole evening to themselves, and when all these questions would meet with a full and fair discussion ; therefore he trusted the house would not require him to enter into all the details of these great questions upon the motion for the adjournment of the house to Monday: In answer to the question pltt by the hon. baronet the member for Chatham (Sir F. Smith) with regard to the competitive examination among the marine cadets he had to inform him that the present First Lord had introduced a system of limited competition among the marine cadets. (Hear, hear.). He knew his hon. friend did not ap prove of that, and that ho preferred an open and unre stricted competition. (Hear.) There were many opinions as to the various systems, and upon these questions the public were very much divided. Ile might state that he (Lord Paget) was in favour of unlimited competition; but his noble friend the First Lord had, in the course taken with regard to the marine cadets, acted in a very fair manner, and it was a very great improvement upon the old system. Under the old system it was a pure matter, he would not say of favour, of giving these cadetships to the eons of meri torious officers. (Hear.) His noble friend had directed that the nominations should be limited to old officers' sons and to the sons of men who had not large enough means to place their sons in other professions. The marine corps was one in which men who could afford to go into the army or artillery were not disposed to enter; but he wished they would do so because it was an honourable corps to belong to, and the position of the cadets on board ship was a high one. The system introduced by his noble friend was this, that when a vacancy occurred a certain number of yoang men were exa mined, and the successful candidate was placed in the corps.. He thought the system was a fair one, that it worked well, and that it gave general satisfaction. Tho hon. mem ber for Derby (Mr. Bass) had alluded to naval cadets, and he found fault with the system pursued by the Admiralty, in not appointing naval cadets by open competition. There was a discussion last year on this question, and he then showed that it was one of great difficulty, and that it was impossible to say that every lad of 14 years could be said to pass a successful competitive examination which could test their abilities when grownup, and for that reason ho did not think it would be right to introduce it among naval cadets. (Hear.) His hon. friend would no doubt admit that some improvement in the system had taken place. He would turn now to the questions of the hon.member for Portsmouth, which were, " when the report of the Commission on Dock . yard Management would be presented," and "whether her Majesty's Government intended to fill up the appointment of Surveyor of the Navy, vacant by the retirement of Sir Baldwin Walker, before the house was in possession of the evidence taken by that commission." He (Lord C. Paget) was unable to state when the report of the commission would be presented, because the various details which had been entered upon would require a great deal of consideration before the report could be made. (Hear, hear.) As to the appointment of a successor to Sir Baldwin Walker, it was impossible to refer to this without expressing his great satisfaction that that gentleman had been selected for a command worthy of his talents and reputation. (Cheers.) He stated that much, because the right hon. baronet oppo site had said on former occasions that he had taken a plea sure in making a personal attack on Sir B. Walker. Ho sincerely rejoiced that Sir B. Walker had been brought back to the service of the navy, and that he had been employed in a way he deserved, and therefore he wished to bear his tes timony to his great worth and abilities. Sir B. Walker had suffered so grievously in his health, that some time ago he begged that he might be relieved from the office he held, but the noble First Lord said he must have his assistance in pre paring the estimates, and when they were ready to be laid before the house, he would be able to retire from the comp trollership of the navy. The question was what was to be done in the management of that great department, and were the Government to wait until the commission had reported their opinion to the house, - and in the meantime keep this impor tant office in abeyance ? All hon. members would admit that it would be impossible to allow the office to remain vacant, because the whole duties of the dockyards would come to a standstill, and consequently the Government were obliged to appoint a successor to Sir B. Walker. The noble duke the First Lord had chosen a gentleman who had written a book on steam machinery, and was a great autho rity on naval architecture, and he was also a remarkably intelligent and distinguished officer. He thought the noble duke could not do better than select this gentleman for the situation. At the same time, in order that it might not be a permanent appointment, this gentleman had been ap pointed for five years. (Hear.) The noble duke had under his consideration ,the enormous duties of the department, and he felt that there was some necessity for haying some one to act between the comptroller and the dockyards, for it was impossible that the comptroller could give due atten tion to what was going on in the dockyards, and it was ne cessary that some assistance should be given to him. It was now under consideration whether some such appointment ought not to be made. (Hoar, hear.) His hon. friend the member for Portsmouth appeared to think that instead of appointing a single successor to Sir B. Walker there should be a council; but he (Lord C. Paget) thought if anything was going out of fashion it was that of divided responsibi lity ; for they heard every day that the Board of Admiralty was a divided responsibility, and that matters were shuf fled about from one to another until nobody knew who was responsible for them. (Hear, hear.) As regarded ship building, if anything required an undivided responsibility, it was that ; and therefore he could not favour the sugges tion that there ought to be a council tc manage this great department. (Hear, hear.) His hon, friend opposite (Mr. Baillie) found fault with the appointment of Sir B. Walker to the office of surveyor, and complained that the surveyors were not scientific men. He thought it would be admitted that the present officer stood very high for his skill; and that the noble duke had done well in appointing him to the office. The right hon. baronet opposite (Sir J. Pakington) had found fault with the Government for ordering the con struction of more iron-eased ships. Sir J. PAK INGTON said he had found no such fault. The noble lord had entirely misapprehended him. The question he asked was whether the Government intended to test the sea-going qualities of the Warrior, she being a ship of a peculiar constructi on , b e f ore they gave orders for the construction of other ships of the same kind. Lord C. PAGET admitted that the contractors were to blame for the great delay in completing the Warrior, but there were various reasons for the delay, some being the peculiar construction of the ship. He hoped that the ship would be completed this summer and be ready for sea. - - TIIR GRANT OF £520,000 TO THE MYSORE FAMILY. Mr. VANSITTART asked the Secretary of State for India whether it was true, as set forth in the fourth para graph of a petition numerously signed' by the inhabitants of Calcutta, at a meeting held in that city on the 20th of December last, that the grant to the Mysore family had been made by him against the protest of the Indian Govern ment, against the recot ded decision of the late Governor- General of India, the Marquis of Dalhouse, in Council, and against the representations of the financial Minister appointed by the Crown, the late Right Hon. James Wil son, and of the Viceroy and Governor-General the Earl. Canning; and whether he had any objection to produce copies of all papers connected with the aforesaid grant, and of all despatches of the Secretary of State for India to Earl Canning, ordering the payment of £520,000, to and for the Mysore families, and copies of the minutes of the members of the Indian Council thereon. Sir C. WOOD stated briefly the circumstances under which the Indian Government had recently directed the payment of above half a million sterling to the Mysore f am ily. The princes of that house who had been dispos sessed of their territories by the British Government had made a claim to an adequate provision being made for their support, which had been fully in ves ti g a ted by the Home Government, and the result was that the sum of £520,000 had been invested to form a permanent fund, the interest of which would in future be applied to the maintenance and support of the family. CHURCH RATES. Mr. BUXTON having, at the suggestion of the Speaker, withdrawn the first part of the notice which he had placed on the paper, viz., "To call the attention of the house to the present position of the question of church rates," asked whether it was the intention of the Government to intro duce any bill on the subject this session!? THE SUN,' 'LONDONI SATURDAY PTV ENING, FEBRUARY 9, 1861. would be done till there was a general system of rating, and the existing areas of management and charge broken up. Mr. DEEDES suggested that the scope of inquiry by the committee should be enlarged, so as to include an investi gation into the operation of the law itself. Sir G. C. LEWIS then moved the addition to the motion of the words, " And into the operation of the law for the relief of the poor." Mr. LOCKE said that the inquiry should be whether or not the present Law of Settlement should be continued, and if abolished, then, how they would adjust the rating throughout the country. The motion, with the amendment, was then agreed to. BANK OF ENGL•AND (CONSOLIDATED FUND). Mr. MASSEY brought up the resolutions of the com mittee, which were agreed to. Leave was then given to bring in a bill founded thereon. RED SEA AND INDIA TELEGRAPH COMPANY. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER moved that the house go into committee. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY complained that the committee were about to discuss a resolution, of the terms of which they were wholly ignorant. Why should not a preliminary notice be given, as in other cases, of the precise nature of the resolution abcut to be proposed ? The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that he was in the hands of the house. The resolution was pre pared, and he for one fully expected to see it on the votes that morning. The resolution was in close conformity with the notice given on the votes. The house then resolved itself into committee; Mr. MassEy in the chair. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER—I will not trouble the house with any lengthened statement, because, although a great deal may be said upon it, the point before us, although important, is a narrow one. I will not say anything as to the merits, the wisdom, or otherwise of the agreement that is under consideration, nor will I enter upon two other matters—one a contest between the Red Sea Telegraph Company and the contractors ; and, secondly, the course that may have been taken by this unfortunate line. All this is excluded from our present view, and we are now not to consider any matter of policy, but simply a question of good faith, to which I shall accordingly limit myself. An agreement was made between the Treasury and the Red Sea Company in the year 1859, and a bill was brought into Parliament in the Session of the same year to give effect to that agreement. The nature of the agree ment was understood by the public in a particular sense, and about that sense there can be no doubt. It was under stood that by that agreement the Government guaranteed to the company a minimum dividend, sinking fund included, of £4los. upon a certain maximum amount of capital during 50 years ; and although it was stated in the House of Lords by the noble earl then at the head of the Government that this was a conditional guarantee, yet the sense in which he used the term was that this was a guarantee conditional and contingent on the execution of the work, and on its being brought into working order. But now I come to speak, not of what was said in the House of Lords, which passed without record, but of what was understood by the public and those who subscribed their money. In the first place, then, what was this understanding.? and, secondly, were they justified in entertaining it? The un derstanding was that the contract was unconditional in one respect, and that, according to the intent and meaning of the agreement, all that the company had to do was to raise the capital and lay down their line, and then they were not liable to be prejudiced in respect to this guarantee by any subsequent failure of the line to perform its functions. At that time it was thought that the main difficulty consisted in the laying down of the line, and it was conceived that after a submarine telegraph wire had once been laid down any failure was not to be apprehended. The case, therefore, which has occurred was not distinctly in the contemplation of the parties ; and if this were a question bbtween private individuals I do not know that it might not be made the subject of argument and contest. But any gentleman who will examine the course of the transaction between the Government and the company will, I think, come to the conclusion that any subsequent failure of the line to per form its functions, although it was not in the contemplation of either party as a risk to be seriously guarded against, was intended to be borne by the Government ; that is to say although not distinctly and expressly, yet the nature of the bargain was this—that the company, having laid down the line in a proper state, were thereafter to be free from risk. The general facts connected with this case are pretty well known. It is, I believe, unquestionable that on that under standing alone money was raised ; and the responsibility of the Government in the case was a very peculiar responsi bility, because two gentlemen were appointed official directors; their names were announced, they took part in the proceedings of the company, and theywere considered a conclusive guarantee on the part of the Government to the public of the security of the undertaking. When I speak of the Government I speak of them in the discharge of their natural and proper functions. They con cluded a contract subject to the assent of Parliament, and the assent of Parliament was regularly obtained for that purpose. The bill passed the Commons in 1859 ;it did not contain the contract, although it sanctioned it. In the House of Lords attention was drawn to this fact, and the bill was amended by having the contract set out in it. When the bill came down to this house as amended, and the motion was made to agree with the Lords' amendments, my right hon. friend the member for Carlisle observed that these amendments brought for the first time under our view a very important instrument of which we had no cognizance, and he moved that the consideration of the Lords' amend ments should be delayed for a fortnight, in order that the house might become acquainted with the terms and charac ter of the contract to which we were about to give a final assent. Most unfortunately, as I think, and as I thought at the time, the house, on a division, rejected by a consi derable majority the motion of my right hon. friend. They were careful lest the slightest suspicion should be raised as to the maintenance of the public faith. (Hear, hear.) Nothing could be more honourable than the motive; the effect was most unfortunate; for I don't at all doubt that if that contract had been subjected to the view and con sideration of the members of the house, by allowing a fort night to elapse before the Lords' amendments were con sidered, the blot in its formation would have been hit, and, to the great advantage of all parties, it would have been removed. The amendments of the Lords, however, were accepted and the bill became law. Under that law there were provisions for the payment of dividends during the submergence of the line, and th ese were pa id. I n t h e l a tt er part of last year it occurred that in consequence of diffe rences of opinion between the directors, the company, and the contractors, a reference was made to the Government, and the due construction of the contract was brought under the consideration of the law officers of the Crown. They reported, in very unhesitating terms, that under the con tract the Government were not bound to pay, and had no power to pay anything in the present circumstances and condition of the line. The first question, then, we had to consider was, whether we were to avail ourselves of that state of the contract, or whether we should ask Parliament to amend the error in its construction, and pass a bill which should give effect to the original understanding. Upon an examination of the evidence as to the original construction put upon the contract and the assurance given to the parties, and which they were originally justified in entertaining, we thought our duty was to apply to Parlia ment, and that announcement was made to the directors of the company in an official letter, signed by my right hon. friend the member for Bury (Ali% F. Peel), on the 28th of January. There was another question, of a more delicate alsoand more cauie d te iffi a cu de lt character, eieienaeta on their w du h t ic y h , a t n h ern d e t G ha o t v waa m t e h n e t question nn e a t h r y e r e wt steeps s p e h n o e u e l e d e s a a t r t y h e fe T r r e t a h s e u ry ve r a i s fi s e e a n t t t cer tain i eno of a half .year's accounts, the consequence of which would be to give authority for the issuing of half a year's dividends. The money necessary for these dividends was voted by Parliament ; but for the purpose of enabling us to fulfil what was thus believed to be a contract, the deliberate opinion of the legal advisers of the Crown, in cutting away from under our feet the contract itself, appeared to us, on the just understanding of our constitutional functions, likewise to cut away from under our feet all title to pay this dividend. We might, in a case where a great prac tical evil was to be apprehended if any lengthened course of time elapsed, have undertaken the responsibility of issuing the money; but difficulties might have been interposed by the Controller of the Exchequer. Whether that was so or not, we certainly came to the con clusion that inasmuchjas we should have the opportunity within the course of a few days of bringing the matter under the judgment of Parliament, and inasmuch as we should be compelled to do so as regarded the general validity of the contract, it would be but due to Parliament and the respect we were bound to pay to its authority, that we should refer to it the whole subject in its entirety, and that we should not reduce to an idle form the consideration of the bill by proceeding at once to anticipate its judgment, and pay the dividends coming due; for they are not yet due, and it is even possible this measure may become law before that time has actually arrived. A bill has been drawn for the purpose I have described, and re-establishing what we take to be tae original contract. For ascertaining that understanding we have, on one hand, various docu ments that. passed at an early period of the negotiations, and the evidence of various declarations in Parliament on record, both that of the late Secretary of the Treasury, and the still more authoritative declaration of the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire, who ex pressed his view of the nature of the contract in 1859, when the motion to which I have referred was made by my right hon. friend the member for Carlisle. The course we pro pose to take is this :—lt is a matter of some nicety to deter mine the precise form in which an Act of this nature should be passed, because, although it is our duty to give effect to the original intention, it is certainly not our duty to do more. Our desire, therefore, is that the form of the bill we propose should be narrowly canvassed by the house. I now submit a resolution on the terms of which, if adopted, I propose to introduce a bill. I will take the second reading of it on the earliest convenient day, and then I pro • pose to refer the bill itself to the consideration of a select committee for the examination of its provisions—not to go into the merits of the arrangements made, or into the r question a oft to w t h h a i t a course p i p t y m n a a y i d b e e n e a x w p e a d u i e h n t n t e t r o g e t d a , k e with n w d i t et. which five out of six links are perfectly useless for all prac tical purposes; these may be proper sutjects for inquiry, but not in connexion with this bill. Tho committee will agree with me that the simple question of public faith should be kept distinct; the other questions will be more conveniently handled in a different form. With these explanations I beg to put into your hands the resolution that it is expedient to guarantee to the Red Sea and India dividendthe purpose up oefn theth e as T an el d 7 m g n r tit(ihf capitalc om p a ny's u ndertaking. Companyboneminimum s called r of Mr. DIVETT did not blame the Government for the rate arrangement which had been made in this case. The guarantee was in a manner forced upon them by circum stances. There was an extraordinary clamour for this tele graph at the time. There was great anxiety in reference to affairs in tho East, and the press took a strong view on the subject, but the difficulties of the case had not been duly c tr o a n s s t i e d d etne e d.guAarlalndteeee of pse t a hi t a el s e a g r rtaNmild be entered into by p v bs were failures, and he the Government in future without the fullest investigation. He admitted, however, that good faith required the present bill should be passed as speedily as possible. 111 r. JAMES said that some of his constituents were in terested in this question, and had subscribed their money upon the security of the public faith, and on considerations which he thought would influence any gentlemen of ordi nary prudence. There could be no doubt that the public faith was pledged to the undertaking, and he could not see that the late Government should be taxed with any impro vident proceeding. It was easy to find fault after a failure which no human sagacity could contemplate, but at the time 'this line was proposed it was extremely desirable to have telegraphic communication with India. He agreed with the hon member for Evesham that this proceeding might operate as warning against the house voting hastily in suc h ma tt ers , but they had now to deal with parties out of doors, who had subscribed their money on the faith of the Government guarantee. He, however, did not see the necessity for the appointment of a committee on the subject. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was glad that the house had had so clear a declaration from the right hon. member for Buckinghamshire of the intention and understanding of the late Government with regard to the contract. He quite agreed with what had fallen from 1 the hon. baronet the member lin. Evesham as to the dan gerous practice of inserting money clauses, which made a charge on the Consolidated Fund, in private bills; and, without presuming to pronounce an absolute opinion on the point, it nevertheless appeared to him well worth the con sideration of the House of Commons whether it would not be proper to provide that no such charge should be im posed, except through the medium of a public bill. The hon. membet. for Cambridge had asked what would be the functions of the select committee. He did not think, as he had already stated, that the functions of the committee would be to enter into the policy or providence of the ar rangement made; but the contract was an instrument some what complex and very peculiar in its form, and it had been a matter of doubt what was the understanding. on which the contract was adopted and the act passed. These wet e matters which Government had examined for them selves, but the house did not act upon what the Govern ment had done, and it was desirable that it should by an organ of its own—a select committee—try these questions and verify the facts on which the bill was founded. A com mittee could, on the part of the house, very easily satisfy itself by the inspection of documents, and by the examina tion perhaps of a single witness, what was the understanding on which the contract was founded, and whether or not the terms of the Act carried out that understanding. As to the question whether, in the event of the working expenses of the company not being defrayed by its receipts, the public of this country and the Indian Government jointly would be liable to be called upon to make good the deficit, the most consolatory answer he could give was that the working expenses were brought within the discretion of the Government, and would be reduced within very nar • row limits. According to the wording of the contract itself, he was afraid of the working expenses, as well as the pay ment of the necessary advances, would have to be borne by this country in the event of the failure of certain resources mentioned in the instrument as originally drawn up. Mr. KINNAIRD expressed his regret that the public credit seemed to have been somewhat tampered with by the course with respectto the question which had been adopted. The motion was then agreed to. POST-OFFICE SAVINGS-BANKS. The house having gone into committee for the purpose of taking into coLsideration a resolution with respect to the establishment of Post-office savings banks which the Government had given notice of their intention to propose. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER took occa sion to state that, in submitting the resolution to the notice of the committee, he did not seek to pledge hon. members to an approval of the bill which it was his intention to found upon it. The object which he had in view in dealing with the question was.to afford greater facilities for the deposit of savings of small amount than under the present system existed. The establishment of savings banks had un doubtedly been of immense service to the humbler classes throughout the country; but, whilst it was the wish of the Government so to improve their constitution as to render them still more advantageous, the mode of doing so was a problem which they found extremely difficult to solve. Under those circumstances, they proposed to avail themselves of another description of machinery already in existence, simple in form, and recommended by its incomparable convenience, for the purpose of carrying out more effectually the objects for which savings banks had been set on foot. Of those institutions there were only about 600 scattered throughout the country, and of that number but a small proportion wore open for a sufficient ,number of hours in the week. Looking, however, to the Post •office Department, he found that it comprised between 2,000 and 3,000 money-order offices; that the number of postmasters was perfectly adequate to the transaction of in creased money business • that they held their situations under pecuniary responsibility, and that every one of their offices was open six days in the week for not less than eight or ten hours each day. Now, there was a machinery ready to hand, and admirably adapted for extending the usefulness of the savings -bank system. The experience, ho might add, of the present winter must have demonstrated to anybody who thought upon the subject that the resources of the labouring population of the country had not of late years in creased in proportion to the increase in the rate of their wages and the improvement in their standard of living ; nor did think be was indnlging in too sanguine an expecta tion in supposing that if readier Means of }lying I) . y tkir small savings were afforded them than thy now posSossed, those savings would become much larger in amount and their ability to cope with periods of distress consequently greater. He did not, of course, intend to propose that the machinery of the Post-office should be applied at once and wholesale to the pvpose of affordiny: to th worlting classes the facilities of which he spoke . The scheme to which he . _ Sir H. WILLOUGHBY said that some notion of the im portance of the question under discussion might be in-` P ferred from the fact that it involved a sum of something like £1,500,000. The matter originally came before Parliament in the shape of a priVate and unopposed bill, which attracted no attention, and was passed without discussion or even observation, though it. saddled the country with an enor mous contingent burden. He much doubted whether it was ever intended to give an unconditional guarantee; but, however that might be, what he wished to point out was that under the existing system of legislation it was possible to saddle the public purse with an annuity of £36,000 for 50 years without advantage to the country, and even almost without the knowledge of the House of Commons. The money would, no doubt, have to be paid ; but, at least, a useful lesson might be learnt from the present case. Let all such bargains be shifted to the bottom, and narrowly watched through all the stages of their progress ; and, above all, let the house adopt the recommendation of the Contract Committee which sat last year, and insist that a resolution should be placed upon the table at least one month before any action was taken up(in it. Mr. A ywroN thought that the resolution submitted by the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not in accordance with the original understanding as stated by the company itself. The resolution set forth that the Government should pay the sum necessary to make up a dividend of 41 per cent. ; but the real engagement, as appeared from the prospectus of the company, was that the Government should take over the telegraph, and pay back the capital, £BOO,OOO. He wished to know what the Chancellor of the Exchequer un derstood to be the annual sum which would have to be paid under his resolution ? Mr. WALPOLE did not see what good could result from referring the Bill to a select committee. The safer course would be to treat the Bill in the usual way, submitting it to a committee of the whole house. Sir S. NORTHCOTE stated, in reply to the hon. and learned member for the Tower Hainlets, that the obligation upon the Government to take the telegraph into their own hands was not compulsory, but optional. The recommenda tions of the Contract Committee of last session would render it impossible in future for any such bargain as that under consideration to be completed without the full know ledge and sanction of Parliament. It should not be for gotten, at the same time, that the course pursued with re gard to the Red Sea Telegraph Bill, though inconvenient enough, was not unusual, but that, on the contrary, it was the precise course which up to that time had been followed in all similar cases. Nor, he was sure, was there the small est idea of deliberate concealment. Those who introduced the bill had every reason to suppose that the terms of the contract would be made the subject of a rigid inquiry, and he was satisfied that there was no intention in any way to elude the vigilance of the house. If, as had been stated, the law officers of the Crown had advised the Government that the contract was not binding upon them, there was obvi ously no other course open to the Chancellor of the Exche quer than that which he had taken. Some surprise had been expressed that the Government had agreed to secure to the telegraph company a dividend of 4t per cent. whether the line was kept in working order or not. It should be re.. collected that the Government gave an unconstitutional guarantee, because the opening of the line was a matter of great political interest and even emergency. We were than suffering under the double afflictio n o the mutiny in India and of a monetary crisis in this country. The necessity, therefore, was great, and the Government thought they were justified, under the peculiar circumstances of the case, in departing from their usual policy. Sir G. C. LEWIS was not disposed to charge the late Government with any concealment upon the subject of this contract. The house, however, was not called upon now to go into a discussion of the prudence of the terms upon which the contract was arranged. What the house had to con sider was what was the understanding which existed between the parties and which was ratified by Pal liarnent ? It would, undoubtedly, be the wish of the house to give effect to that understanding. Now, he confessed, having looked inro the matter with some care, that he felt consider able doubt as to what the real understanding was with re spect to the contingency which had arisen —viz., the entire failure of the line. It seemed to him that when the nego tiations took place with the late Government both parties assumed as a matter of course that the line once laid down, it would remain in working order, subject only to tempo rary interruptions. They accordingly entered into a gua rantee that during any partial disturbance of the line or any temporary want of funds on the part of the company a cer tain dividend should be paid to the subscribers ; but he did not see any evidence in the papers that either party ever contemplated the contingency which had actually occurred. That was the contingency which had occurred, and the question the house had to consider was whether they were to pay .11. per cent. on these £BOO,OOO for 50 years without the most remote prospect of any advantage to the public. As it was the desire of every member that the strictest good faith should be observed towards the shareholders, it would be satisfactory before the question was decided in commit tee, or at any other stago of the bill, that those persons con nected with the late Government who were the principal parties in conducting this negotiation should give their as surance to the house that theyunderstood that the contract as passed by Parliament did bind the country to the pay ment of that dividend on that sum in the contingency which hail actually occurred. If such an assurance were distinctly given the house would feel, however disadvantageous the contract might be to the nation, the utmost willingness to retain faith with the shareholders. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISRAELI observed that there were two kinds of guarantees in respect to these lines—the conditional gua rantee and the unconditional guarantee. The conditional guarantee meant that a certain rate of interest for a certain amount of capital was secured to the telegraph company on the condition, first, that the line was laid, and next, that it was kept in working order. By the unconditional guaran tee, however, the Government guaranteed a certain rate of interest on a certain capital, provided the line were laid, and when laid, placed at once in welkin.. order, though not kept in working order. The only unconditional guarantee which was sanctioned by the late Government was this one of the Red Sea Telegraph. The line was laid, and it was proposed that the guarantee should commence when the line had been 10 days in complete working order after being laid down. The Government did not think that a sufficiently long time, and they inserted 30 days in the contract. The line having been completed and in working order for 30 days, the Government felt themselves engaged under the unconditional guarantee. What happened was certainly not contemplated. It was not supposed that on the 31st or 32d day the machinery would fail ; but it was perfectly clear that if the line was in successful operation for 30 days the Government was entirely bound by the contract. He agreed that the present was not the occasion on which to enter into the policy of these undertakings, though he was prepared to do so were it necessary. He would only remark in reference to an observation made by an hon. member, who seemed to argue that, after the failure of the Atlantic cable, the Government should not have sanctioned such an operation as this, that the Government entered into the engagement before the failure of the Atlantic cable. was about to invite the assent of the committee would, it was true, be worked through the agency of the Postmaster- General and not that of the National Debt Commissioners, whose duty it would be simply to receive and hold the funds handed over to them by the Post-office for investment ; but then the new arrangements would in no way interfere with the primary objects, for the attainment of which that important branch of the public service was established. He proposed that the Post-office should receive and re turn deposits with interest in the same way as money orders were now dealt with, charging merely a fair re munerative price for the work thus performed. He might further observe that the principle upon which his scheme was founded differed in some respects from that on which savings banks were based. Those institu tions had been established with the notion that the State might very fairly offer to the labouring classes a certain pre mium by way of inducing them to make deposits ; but, while he was far from desiring to cast any censure upon that prin ciple, he did not deem it right in the present case to hold out to depositors the expectation of receiving any high rate of interest. All, then, he meant to do was to give a fair and moderate premium to the depositors of small savings, and that premium he hoped to be able to pay them w ith ou t im posing any additional burden on the State, by turning to account the very extensive and extremely economical ma chinery of the Post-office. The rate of interest which was now paid on deposits in savings -banks stood at the some what high. rate of £3 .ss. per cent., and he proposed that under the operation of the scheme to which he was asking the assent of the committee it should be fixed at £2 10s., with power to increase that amount within cer, ain limits. Inasmuch as there were great difficulties in the way of deal ing with the finances of savings -banks and of attempting to alter their form of constitution, the Government proposed for the moment to pass over those difficulties, and to ask the assent of Parliament to a plan which, avoiding any compe tition with the existing savings-banks, would greatly en large the facilities of making small deposits. The main difficulty in the present savings -bank system was its im perfect organisation in regard to the responsibility of the State. The State could only be responsible for the acts of its own officers, and as no plan had yet been devised by which the State could participate in all the proceedings of the savings -banks, it was impossible to carry out the prin ciple of a perfect Government guarantee. The State now only became responsible for the money of the depositors at the moment it received it from the savings -banks' autho rities. But as in this case the money would be received by the officers of the Government it would be inexcusable not to give a Government guarantee—(hear, hear)—and he proposed, therefore, to give a Government gua rantee in the only effective technical form, by providing that if any difficulty arose in the means of meeting the demands of any lawful depositor, it should be charged upon the Consolidated Fund. He hoped the notion of a Government guarantee would not cause any alarm in the minds of hon. gentlemen, for he had expressly stated the basis of this new arrangement was that it should be self-supporting. The right hon. gentleman concluded by moving a formal resolution to the effect, that in the event of savings-banks being established under this bill any defi ciency which might arise in the means of meeting the de mands of depositors should become a charge on the Conso lidated Fund. Mr. CROSSLEY thought it impossible to over-esiimate the advantage which the working classes would derive from the proposition of the right hon. gentleman. There were no less than 15 counties in England without such a thing as a savings bank, and there were also many important towns with from 10,000 to 20,000 inhabitants where there was no such institution. The State provided beershops in every street for working men to spend their money in as fast as they earned it ; but hitherto it had not been suffici ently forward in giving them facilities for saving their money. 'Working men were often afraid to let their masters know that they were saving money from a notion that it would lead to a reduction of their wages, and under the present system the masters were very often concerned in the management of these banks and could know exactly how each man's account stood. By this new arrangement each account would be a secret between the depositor and the postmaster. He felt very much indebted to the atten tion which the right hon. gentleman had given to the re presentations addressed to him on the subject by Mr. Sykes of Huddersfield. He did not think the Government ought to make a profit on the business, nor ought they to lose by it, for the working classes of this country did not want charity. If at any time it was found that more than 21 per cent. could be afforded he hoped it would be paid. Colonel SYKES said that no praise could be too high for anything which tended to induce the working classes to lay by against a bad time. He was afraid that the note of hand system would entail considerable labour on the postmasters, most of whom had some occupation of their own to attend to, and suggested that each man's account should be kept in a book, as under the present system. Mr. KINN AIRD thought that the plan was exactly what was wanted. It was simple and practical, and would save the labouring classes from incalculable loss, entailed by their advancing money on all sorts of schemes because they had no place for depositing their savings with secu rity. He heartily congratulated the Chancellor of the Ex chequer on having at last succeeded in one of the fondest hopes of his heart, that of creating a 21 per cent. stock. Mr. AYRTON asked whether further facilities would be given to the existing savings-banks in using the Post-office for small remittances F The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that no proposal or suggestion in a practical shape had been made to him on the subject, but he should be very glad to see the machinery of the Post-office applied. on behalf of existing savings -banks, to any extent short of entailing additional charge. They were indebted to Mr. Sykes, whose name had been mentioned, as one who had laboured much in the cause, and who had been ofgreat public use with respect to it. The plan adopted was not precisely a plan of interest notes, but that was a matter of detail on which he would not enter now, as the bill would be on the table in two or three days. The motion was then agreed to, and the house resumed. The Red Sea Telegraph Bill, the Highways Bill, and the Parochial Assessment Bill were severally read a first time. The house adjourned at five minutes to 11 o'clock. FROM THE GAZETTE OF LAST NIGHT. WAR-OFFICE, FEB. 6. The Queen has been graciously pleased to give orders for the appointment of Charles Pressly, Esq., Chairman of the Board of Inland Revenue, to be an Ordinary Member of the Civil Division of the Third Class, or Companions, of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath. WHITEHALL, FEB. 4. The Queen has been pleased to approve of the appoint ment of the Right:Hon. Edward George Fitzalan Howard (commonly called Lord Edward George Fitzalan Howard), to be Deputy Earl Marshal of England. FOREIGN-OFFICE, FEB. 5. The Queen has been pleased to approve of Mr. Augustus Charles Gumpert as Consul at Bombay for his Majesty the Emperor of Austria. THE PRINCE OF WALES'S COUNCIL CHAMBER, BUCKINGHAM GATE, FEB. 5. John Francis Basset of Tehidy, in the county of Corn wall, Esq., has been appointed Sheriff of the county of Cornwall. CROWN-OFFICE, FEE. 8. DUTIES ON SPIRITS Mr. CRAWFORD asked whether it was the intention of the Government to introduce any measure during the pre sent session for the modification of the duties on spirits. He understood that there had been a great diminution in the consumption of spirits, and in the revenue arising there from ; also a great increase in illicit distillation, and that the spirit trade was in a state of complete paralysis. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said he would give an answer to the question, which he hoped would be sufficient, though he held that it was entirely contrary to the public interests, as well as to the general rule, for the finance minister in general to answer questions with respect to the intentions of the Government on any finan- Ci a_ l BlSldect before the period arrived for making the re gular etatement for the year. He knew of no exception to thattruie when the. question was put relative to an old established duty, But the question put referred to e. duty which had only been in operation five or six months; and his hon. friend was quite justified in putting it. With re gard to the state of the revenue from spirits, a sufficient period had not elapsed to enable him to give any answer that would be of value to the house. The smallest time that could be taken as a test of the operation of a new duty was the close of the financial year. As regarded the most important of the questions put by his hon. friend, that relating to illicit distillation, he could give an answer which would give entire satisfaction, for undoubt • edly that was the one point on which the members of the house were most sensitive and anxious when his proposal was made. He held in his hand a return, which he would lay on the table, of the number of detections, convictions, and commitments in 1359 and 1860 respectively. There was not one of the comparative figures which did not ex hibit a diminution, whether in detections, in convictions, or in commitments, and that in every one of the three coun tries, England, Scotland, and freland. In Ireland in parti.• cular, which of course must be regarded as the most critical and dangerous part of the case, the detections in 1859 were 1329, and in 1860, 918. He therefore did not hesitate to say, even at this early period, that the evidence oa the subject of illicit distillation was completely satisfactory and conclusive. (Hear, hear.) Nor did he hesitate to go a step further under thepeculiar circumstances, and say, in answer to his hon. friend, that there was not the slightest intention on the part of the Government, to propose any reduction of the duty which was laid upon spirits in the last session. THE EXTRADITION CASE. Mr. 11. B. SHERIDAN asked whether, in the case known as the Canadian extradition case, her Majesty's Government had any doubt that the writ of habeas corpus, issued by the Court of Queen's Bench in this country, requiring that the body of one John Anderson should be brought to that court, would reach Canada in time to pre vent the judgment of the Canadian Court from being acted upon, and whether her Majesty's Government had any doubt that the writ on its reception by the Canadian Court would be attended to and obeyed ; and whether any steps had been taken to secure the safe passage of J. Anderson through American territory, if that route should be selected to reach this country. He had been informed that a very eminent Canadian lawyer had given it as his opinion that the writ of the Court of Queen's Bench would not be attended to, and English lawyers had expressed the same opinion. There was a doubt whether a conflict might not arise between the Court of this country and the Canadian Court. Mr. COLLIER thought this not an inopportune occasion to say a few words on the subject. He confidently stated that the almost unanimous opinion of Westminster Hall was that the judgment of the Canadian Court was wrong. The ques tion arose on the construction of the Ashburton Treaty. He might observe, in the first place, on the subject of extradi tion treaties generally, that it was laid down by Sir J. Mac intosh that their object was the extradition of great offenders against the law of nations, which was the basis of the laws of all civilise 1 countries, and not of offenders against the pe culiar and exceptional laws of different States; and there was a clause in the Ashburton Treaty in reference to extra dition, which was to the following effect :—" Provided that this should only be done upon such evidence of criminality as according to the laws of the place where the fugitive or per son so charged should be found, would justify his apprehen sion and commitment for trial if the crime or offence had been there committed." In 1843 a question was asked in that house by Lord Macaulay as to the construction of the treaty, whether or not the treaty applied to offenders against the pe culiar law of the slave States, and Sir F. Pollock, one of the law officers of the Crown, replied that it did not apply to such cases, but only to cases in which the offences com mitted were against the laws of England or Canada. He believed this opinion of Sir F. Pollock to be perfectly cor rect, and that it required some amount of legal ingenuity to pervert it. According to the law of England, or of any civilized country, the act of Anderson in killing his pur suer in defence of his own liberty, did not constitute mur der, and it could not become murder by the fact of Ander son being a slave, for the English law did not recognise slavery. He, therefore, ventured to say with respect to the Court in Canada, that it had frittered away the plain mean ing:of words, and given a meaning to the treaty, never in tended by any of the contracting parties. Let the house eonsider what such an interpretation would lead to if the criminal law of i Missouri made it penal for a slave to read the Bible. The logical consequence of such an interpreta tion would be that we should be bound to surrender a man for doing that which we regarded as a meritorious action rather than an offence—a conclusion so absurd that it was scarcely possible to suppose its adoption was binding on either of the contracting parties. He should not on that occasion further advert to the subject than to express a hope that the noble lord would be able to *inform the house that instructions had been issued to the Governor-General of Canada not to deliver up Anderson to the United States. Mr. WARNER said it would probably be in the recol lection of the house that some years ago a claim had been made by the Government of this country on that of Ame rica for the extradition of a person, bearing the appropriate name of Cain, who was charged with having shot his land ' lord in Ireland. In taking the claim into consideration it was held on the part of the United States that the Ashbur ton Treaty did not apply to political offences, and that shooting a landlord came within that category. (A laugh.) For his own part he thought that treaty stood almost un rivalled as an instance of diplomatic incapacity, but it was at the same time clear that the United States could not fairly place upon it an interpretation totally distinct at one time from that which it asked us to put upon it at another. Under any circumstances, he entertained no doubt that her Majesty's Government would be of opinion that homicide committed in the endeavour to preserve a man's personal liberty was not an offence which came within the provi sion of the treaty. Whether the decision of the Court of Queen's Bench in Canada in the case of Anderson was right or wrong did not now so much matter, inasmuch as the question was taken out of their hands, and rested with the Canadian Executive, which he hoped had been made cognizant of the course taken by the United States in the other instance to which he had referred. Lord PALMERSTON—I wish in the first play to say, in reply to the question of my hon. friend below the gang way (Mr. Bristowe), that it is not the intention of the Go vernment to introduce this Session a measure with respect to church-rates. I may add that it would be the province of the house to determine—there being a bill upon the sub ject already before it—whether it would be desirable to proceed by way of resolution or not; but my own opinion is that the question is one to which that course would not be quite applicable. To the inquiries which have been addressed to me by the hon. member for Dudley I think I can best reply by stating how the case which he has brought under our notice actually stands. My noble friend the Duke of Newcastle wrote on the 9th of January to the Governor-General of Canada to say that he was not to sur render Anderson—(cheers)—to the United States until he had received from her Majesty's Government positive in structions to do so. (Hear, hear.) An impression gene. rally prevails that the decision pronounced by the Court of Queen's Bench in Canada would have the effect of render ing it necessary that Anderson should be given up; but it has in reality no bearing upon that point, for, whether it be right or wrong, it simply amounts to this—that An derson was not to be taken out of the custody in which he happened to be placed. With the Governor-General of Canada, not with the Court of Queen's Bench, rests the office, of issuing a warrant for his surrender when applica tion for that surrender is made. (Hear, hear.) It is not, of course, for me to give any opinion with respect to the conflicting jurisdictions of the Court of Queen's Bench here and that in Canada, or to say what is likely to be the line of conduct pursued by the latter on receiving the writ which has been issued in this case by the former. It is, however, plain enough that if Anderson should be sent to this country in compliance with that writ he could not be sent through the American territory, and that the writ therefore, cannot be executed until the opening of our other line of commu nication with Canada has taken place. I may add that I quite concur with my hon. friend who has just spoken in regarding that portion of the Ashburton Treaty which re lates to this question as imperfect and unintelligible. (Hear, hear.) It is as clear as day that a criminal ought to be claimed under its provisions only upon an accusation that he is guilty of some one of the offenses mentioned in the treaty, and that the circumstance alleged as the grounds of asking for his surrender should be such as to show that he would be liable to be prosecuted for the crime with which he stands charged according to the laws of the land in which he happened to be captured—that is to say, in the present instance, according to the laws of England. (Hear, hear.) It is, in my opinion, perfectly plain that the Ame rican Government must, before they can make good their case, establish the fact that Anderson has committed an offence which the law of this country constitutes Murder, and give proofs sufficient to satisfy an English justice of the peace that he ought to be committed to be tried for that accusation. I will not now enter into the question whether a free man who kills in self-defence another who attempts to reduce him to a state of slavery is guilty of manslaughter, or justifiable homicide, or murder; but I think it probable no English lawyer would place the act under the last-men. tioned head, and, if that be so, it is quite clear that no good case has been made out for the surrender of Anderson under the provisions of the treaty. (Cheers.) The motion for the adjournment of the house was then agreed to. THE POOR LAWS. Mr. VILLIERS moved the appointment of a select com mittee to inquire into the administration of the relief of the poor under the Poor Law Amendment Acts. There was a very prevalent opinion that the poor law had broken down. Ile thought there was much exaggeration on the subject, but at all events investigation was desirable. It was time it should be settled what should be the permanent mode of the poor. relieving Mr. E. JAMES heard from all parts of the country great dissatisfaction expressed at the working of the Poor Law Board. Lord R. CECIL thought that the time had arrived for some inquiry into the parochial management of the metro politan workhouses. Mr. AYRTON said that for 25 years nothing had been attempted to remove the evils of the present system of poor law relief, because it would affect the pockets of the terri torial aristocracy in the country, and a few large landowners in the metropolis, whose opposition the Government would not, and he might almost say dare not, provoke. Ne good MEMBER RETURNED TO SERVE IN THIS PRESENT PARLIAMENT. Borough of Leicester—William Unwin Heygate, Esq., of Brent Pelham Hall, in the county of Hertford, in the room of Joseph William Noble, Esq., deceased. WAR-OFFICE, PALL-MALL, FEB.B. 2d Regiment of Dragoon Guards--Cornet Frederick Grea torex to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Barnes, who has retired ; Michell Duncan Gordon, Gent., to be Cornet, by purchase, vice Greatorex. sth Dragoon Guards—Cornet William Miles Nairn King ton to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice George Frederic lleyworth, who retires. 4th Light Dragoons—Lieutenant William Howley Burder, from the 6th Dragoon Guards, to be Lieutenant, vice James Edward Bradshaw, deceased. 9th Light Dragoons—Ensign Thomas Albin Saunders, from the 23rd Foot, to be Cornet, vice Bashford, pro moted. 17th Light Dragoons—Lieutenant John Illidge Frazer has been superseded for being absent without leave. 2d Regiment of Foot—Lieut. Henry Grattan to be Cap tain, by purchase, vice Willi am C amp b e ll , promote d b y purchase to an Unattached Majority; Ensign Frederick Blake to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Phillips, pro moted ; Ensign James Campbell Stratford to be Lieu tenant by purchase, vice 0-rattan ; Gentleman Cadet Charles William Davie, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Blake, promoted ; Gentleman Cadet Robert Bleazby, from the Royal Mill. tary College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Win. Edward Montague, appointed to the 94th Foot. 3d Foot—Lieutenant George Grant Suttie to be Captain, without purchase,vice William Edmund Cater, deceased ; Ensign Henry Thomas Halahan to be Lieutenant, with out purchase, vice Suttie. sth Foot—Ensign Adolphus Nicole to be Lieutenant by purchase, vice Legge, whose promotion by purchase on the 18th January, 1861, has been cancelled. 6th Foot—Lieutenant John Dennis Ryan, from half. pay of the late 22d Dragoons, to be Lieutenant, vice William Wastle, appointed Paymaster 6th Foot; Ensign James Fitz-Gerald to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Ryan, who retires. Bth Foot—Gentleman-Cadet William Willoughby Eger ton, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Chute, promoted ; Gentleman- Cadet Charles Frederick Malet, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Jones, promoted. 10th Foot—Gentleman-Cadet Henry Guy Carleton, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice Kelly, promoted. 12th Foot—Gentleman-Cadet Charles Henry Gardner, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Gun, promoted. 13th Foot—Captain Henry Neville Cotton Thurston, from the 61st Foot, to be C a pt a i n , v i ce Samuel Head, who exchanges; Captain Henry Seymour Hill, from the 41st Foot, to be Captain, vice Richard Nugent Clayton, who exchanges ; Gentleman-Cadet Charles Bowerbank Camp bell, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign with out purchase, vice Burton, promoted ; Lieut. John J. Paterson Fox to be Adjutant, vice Edward Lutwyche England, who resigns that appointment. 15th Foot—Gentleman-Cadet Francis Walter Cary, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice Boultbee, promoted. 18th Foot—Gentleman-Cadet George Albert Macdonnell, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Smith, promoted. 20th Foot—Gentleman-Cadet Agathus Henry Elster, from. the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice Gibb, appointed to the 3d West India Regi ment. 22d Foot—Gentleman-Cgdet John Claxton Addison, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice William Farley, who retires. 23d Foot—Gentleman Cadet Robert Frederick Williamson from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Thomas Albin Saunders, appointed to the 9th Light Dragoons ; Gentleman Cadet Alexander Spink Beaumont, from the Royal Military College, to be En sign, without purchase, vine Worswick promoted in the 3d West India Regiment. 30th Foot—Gentleman Cadet Thomas Brown Stewart, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice David Matthew La Touche, who retires. 33d Foot—Gentleman-Cadet Frederick William Durrant, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Lynch, promoted. 41st Foot—Captain Richard Nugent Clayton, from the 13th Foot, to be Captain? vice Tinry Seymour Hill, who exchanges, 5 1st F O O -- Ensign Rropson Edward Middleton, to be liientmant, by purchase, vice William Henry Saunders, who retires ; Lieutenant William Hoare Hume, from the Royal Antrim Rifles Militia, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice Middleton, 57th Foot—qoatiavaan eadet John Thornton Down, from the Thayal Military College, to be Ensign, without pur chase, vice Murray, promoted. 58th Foot—Gentleman Cadet Andrew Michael Creagh3 from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice, Key, promoted. 61st Foot--Captain Samucl Head, from the 13th Foqt, to be Captain, vice Henry Neville Cotton Thurston, who exhanges. 62d Foot--Ensign Charles Callaway Ross, from the East Kent Militia, to be Ensign, by purchase, vice John P. Sargent, who retires. 70th Foot—The second Christian name of Ensign Cuppage is Greer, and not Green, as stated is the Gazette of Dec. 21, 1860 • 71st Foot—Gentleman Cadet Felix James,Taylor Brown, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Morgan, promoted. 72d Foot—Gentleman Cadet Walter Frederick Kelsey, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice M'Kay, promoted. 78th Foot—Gentleman Cadet Anthony Jones Carstairs, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice James Hart, wh o re ti res . 83d Foot—Gentleman Cadet Charles Hay Tollemache, from the Royal Military College, to be Ensign, without purchase, vice Powys, promoted. 84th Foot—Lieutenant Thomas White to be Captain, by purchase, vice Walter C. E. Snow, who retires; Ensign. John Hunter Knox, to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice White. 92d Foot—Lieutenant George Hollings Best to be Captain, by purchase, vice Gibson Stott, who retires • Ensign and Adjutant Adam Eddington, to have the rank of Lieute nant ; Ensign Alexander Robert Abercromby Boyd to be Lieutenant, by purchase, vice Best ; Ensign Charles Callaway Ross, from the 62d Foot, to be Ensign, vice Hicks, promoted; Ensign Adam Eddington, to be Adju tant, vice Lieutenant Charles Alexander Humfrey, who has resigned that appointment. 2d West India Regiment—Captain Henry Augustus Wil liams, from half-pay unattached, to be Captain, vice W. C. O' Shaughnessy, appointed to the 12th Foot ; Lieu• tenant Arthur G. Smith has been permitted to retire from the service by the sale of his commission. UNATTACHED.—Captain William Campbell, from the 2d Foot, to be Major, by purchase; Lieutenant Arthur Gonne Bell Martin, from the 9th Light Dragoons, to be Captain, without purchase. MEDICAL DEPARTMENT.—Staff-Surgeon James Carroll Dempster, M.D., to be Surgeon-Major. Staff •Surgeon Edward Scott Docker to be Surgeon-Major. PURVEYOR'S DEPARTMENT.—Deputy Purveyor-in-Chief David Fitz Gerald to be also a Principal Purveyor to the Forces, under the Royal Warrant of 24th December, 1860. The following Purveyors to be Principal Purveyors to the Forces, under the Royal Warrant of 24th December, 1860 :—Matthew Wreford, William Henry Clapp, Wil liam Ma.cdonnell, William John Arnold Tucker, Kentish Jenner, Thomas 0. Hagger, Edward Morris, Charles Barrett Knapp, Gregson Bridgett. BREVET. The undermentioned promotions to take place conse quent on the death of General Sir George Scovell, G.C.8., Colonel of the 4th Light Dragoons; on Jan. 17, 1861: Lieutenant-General Richard Lluellyn, C. 8., Colonel of the 39th Foot, to be General. Major-General Thomas Burke, Colonel of the 10th Foot, to be Lieutenant-General. Brevet-Colonel Henry John French, from Lieutenant- Colonel Unattached, to be Major-General. Brevet-Lieutenant-Colonel the Hon. James Colborne, Major, half-pay, Unattached, to be Colonel. Brevet-Major William Christopher Parkin Elliott, Royal Marines, to be Lieutenant-Colonel. Captain Dudley Clarges Hill, 40th Foot, Distric In structor of Musketry, to be Major. BANKRUPTS. Francis Constantin John Demoor, beerseller, North ampton. John George Shipley, saddler, 179, and 181, Regent street. John Denton, William Denton, and John Denton, jun., builders, Dartmouth .park, Kent. Thomas Barratt, builder, Market Drayton, Shropshire. John Riley, iron founder, Blackburn, Lancashire. Jonathan Fielding Calvert, draper, Blackburn, Lanca shire. Jacob Hunt, cotton manufacturer, Stockport, Cheshire. John Bent, the younger, grocer, Dudley. Edwin Booth, nsaltster, Priors Lee, Shropshire. William Popham Davis, slate and marble merchant. Cardiff. Handel Ashworth, machine broker, Dukinfield, Cheshire. Robert Smith, builder, Harmood-place, Hampstead road, Middlesex. Edwin Curtis, dealer in American goods, Strand, Mid dlesex. William Dunn, grocer, Burslem, Staffordshire. Edward Goldschmidt and Hermann Boas, stationers, Nottingham. BANK OF ENGLAND. An Account, pursuant to the Act 7th and Bth Victoria, cap. 32, for the week .ending on Wednesday, the 6th day of Feb., 1861: ISSUE DEPARTMENT. Notes Issued 1.......X25,488,315i Government Debt £11,015,100 Other Securities .. 3,459,900 Gold Coin & Bullion 9,744,970 Silver Bullion .... 1,283,345 1-- £25,488,315 £25,488,315 BANKING DEPARTMNNT. Proprietors' Capi- Government Secu tal £14.553,000 ritiesAinoluding Rest Public Deposits (i- unity) eluding Exche- Other Securities quer, Savings' Notes Banks, Commis- Gold and Silver missioners of Na- Coin 819,521 tional Debt, and Dividend Ac counts) 4,186,479 Other Deposits 11,927,130 Seven Day and other Bills 655,381 — —.... £34,807,785 £34,807,785 Dated Feb. 7,1881. H. MARSHALL, Chief Cashier. AVERAGE PRICE OF SUGAR. The Avera g e Price of Brown or Muscovado Sugar, com puted from Returns made in the week ending the sth day of Feb., 1861, exclusive of the duties of Customs paid or payable thereon, on the importation thereof into Great Britain : Muscovado, the produce of the British pos. PER CWT. sessions in America Muscovado, the produce of the Mauritius 2ss ld Muscovado, the produce of, the East Indies 28s d Average price of the foregoing .. 26s 71d COUNTRY MARKETS. LIVERPOOL—FEB. 8. There was a thin attendance of town and country dealers at this morning's market, and we had a limited sale for wheat, which may be quoted at about the currencies of last Tuesday. Flour was also a slow sale, at last week's prices. Indian corn was in moderate request, at 37s per qr for best mixed American, and 39s to 39a 6d for white. Oats and oatmeal were slow of sale, but unaltered in price. Beans the turn dearer. Peas and barley a retail sale, at about previous rates. EXETER—FEB. 8. A fair business was done in the corn market to-day, at about late prices : Wheat, white.. 68 9d to 8s 6d 1 Barley.. 48'3d to 5s 9d Ditto red Os Od to Os Od 1 Oats .........2s 9a to 3s Od Flour, fine, 48s to —s ; seconds, 46s to —s per sack. CATTLE. - - --- There was a small supply of cattle driven in, and sales were at about last week's currencies. Fat beef,p score, les to llsOd Ewes, per lb .... Old to 7/d Perk carcases,do 10a to 10s6d Wethers, d 0.... 71d to 8d Sheep, per lb. Od to —d Fat calves, do.. „6dto 6/ d Rough fat, 41d per lb. BRISTOL SUGAR--FEB. 8. We have had a steady demand for sugars during the last week, and most parcels placed in the market have found buyers at from last week's prices to 6d decline on the lower sorts. Refining kinds range from 37s to 41s • grocery, 39 to 445. Refiners' produce in dull d eman d, at ' rather easier rates. 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How little sympathy is frequently awarded to this most necessaryviscus ? A trifle expended in Holloway's Pills would often be better than a fortune securing happi ness. These admirable Pills facilitate digestion, strengthen the stomach, prevent flatulency, act as gentle aperients, purify the blood, and invigo ra t e th e nerves. They dispel the doubts and fortify the judgment of the student, and all who are engaged in sedentary pursuits. In a word, these Pills confer on the weakest stomach many privilege' only possessed by the most robust; they enable that organ without distress to obtain nutriment, activity, and strength. BIRTHS. GRATTAN.—On the 6th inst., at 49, Cambridge-street, Hyde - park-square, the wife of Edmund A. Grattan, Esq., H.M.'s Consul at Antwerp, of a daughter. HANDCOCK.—On the 7th inst., at 6, Dawson-street, the Hon. Mrs. Handcock, of a, daughter. NAPIER.—On the 7th inst., at 54, Green-street, Grosve nor• square, the Hon. Mrs. William Napier, of a son. MARRIAGES. FERGUSON—HOOD.—On the 7th inst., at the Chapel Royal, Windsor-park, Captain Ferguson, Grenadier Guards, son of Admiral and the Hon. M. Ferg-uson, of Pitfour, to Nina Maria, eldest daughter of Colonel the Hon. A. N. Hood and Lady Mary H o w . PAGET—HENEAGE.—On the 6th inst., at Trinity Church, Chelsea, Brigadier-General Lord George Paget, C. 8., to Louisa, youngest daughter of Charles t lieneage, Esq., and the Hon. Mrs. Heneage. DEATIfs . Bn the sth inst., at C ro ft on H ouse , T orquay , Frederick Beasley, aged 30. CONNOLLY.—On the 7th inst., at Bury, near Gosport, Augusta Elizabeth, W if e of Captain Matthew Connolly, R.N., aged 26. FOSTEn.—On the 7th inst., at Canonbury, the Rev. Jacob KirkmanFoster, aged 74. JoNEs.—On the sth inst., Robert Owen Jones, Esq., late of Southampton-buildings, Chancery-lane, and of Black Fon Farm, near Eltham, Kent, aged 76. MORSE.—On the 6th inst., at Swaffham, Norfolk, James Morse, Esq., aged 70. LONDON: Printed and Published by DIURDO YOUNG, at No. 112, Strand, Printer, at THE SUN .01llos, No. 112,Strand. in the Precinct of the Savoy. in the County of Middletes Saturday, February 1891. 111010 1 M Et PIEC in Inc furan Office, GEN Pany at tb Pebri Pour and I gone! Th Tc( GE/ be I] Pree strel As, am Br; ex( I , c ‘ 444 11 , , lIIF