The Sun. — London, England, 1834-06-17 00:00:00

WESTERN AUSTRALIA. The following is an extract of a letter dated Albany, King George's Sound, Western Australia, Nov. 6, 1833 : The Buffalo arrived here from England on the 13th of September, and sailed on the 22d, with female convicts for Sydney. The ship Governor Stirling arrived from England on the 21st of September, with settlers and live stock, and sailed on the 20th for Ba tavia. The barque Freak arrived on the 25th from Sydney, with flour, and'sailed on the 28th for Swan River. The barque Sussannah arrived on the 4th of November from Hobart Town with wheat, and sailed on the 7th for the Isle of France. If government would grant a free passage to a number of officers on half-pay, having large families, this magnificent har bour and fine climate, milder'and more temperate than any part of Italy, would soon be respectably settled, to the future profit of the mother country and strength to our Indian possessions; for if the government should neglect to fortify this fine harbour till a future war, some foreign power will no doubt seize upon it, and convert it into a second Gibraltar, or Port Mahon, which it more resembles. We understand that Sir R. Spencer has succeeded in carrying out most of our English fruits and flowers, figs, grapes, currants, goose berries, almonds, with oranges from Malta. and Rio olives, lemons, citrons, mangos, &c., the whole of which are growing luxuriantly, as well as all our finest meadow grass seeds. lie landed on the 14th of September, and on the 20th of October he had cleared a heavily wooded piece of ground, burnt it off, ploughed it, and sowed it with barley and clover. '1 his was the first time a plough had been used in the colony, although it has been settled seven years. As proof of the sa labrity of the climate, in all that period of time there his not been a single European die in the settlement, although for four years it was a penal settlement, with a-number of male convicts besides the troops. The wild herbage of the country appears to agree particu larly well with English cattle, horses, and sheep ; the South Down ewes are as round as barrels, and the 'Merinos carried out in the Buffalo have already lambed, one of them with twins, which the mother rears quite strong. I have been all over the world, but never before saw a pace so fit for the people of England to emigrate to ; but they should have enough 'to build their house and support their families for two years, except labourers or mechanics, who get from 7s. to 15s. per day. Town grants of land, viz., half an acre are given gratis, to any person to build a house or warehouse on, as are suburban grants within two miles. where two acres are given gratis for a cottage and gardon. Large grants of land must be bought at five shillings an acre."—Hampshire Telegraph. OXFORD CIRCUIT. Days and places appointed for holding the Summer Assizes, before Sir Edward H. Alderson and Sir John Williams, Knights : Berkshire—Thursday, July 10, at Abingdon. Oxfordshire-.-Tuesday, July 15, at Oxford. Worcestershire—Friday, July IS, at Worcester. City Worcester—Friday ' July 18, at City of Worcester. Staffordshire — Tuesday , July 22, at Stafford. Shropshire—Tuesday, July 29, at Shrewsbury. Herefordshire—Saturday, August 2, at Hereford. Monmouthshire—Wednesday, August 6, at Monmouth. - Gloucestershire—Saturday, August 9, at Gloucester. City of Gloucester—Saturday, August 9, at City of Gloucester. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, June 16. The (muse met at a quarter past four. The Earl of E L DON presented petitions from Stansfield, Serverton, and other places in Stafford shire and Salop, for the protection of the established church. Lord ROLLE presented 26 petitions from Hurston, Evesham, Totness, Stonehouse, Dartmouth, and other places in Devonshire, against the claims of Dissenters and in favour of the established church. The Duke of WELLINGTON was cordially greeted this evening by several noble lords on the opposition benches, upon taking his seat. The Capital Punishments Bill and two private bills were brought up from the Commons. Earl CA WD OR presented petitions from several places in Bucks, praying for the protection of the established church. CHIMNEY SWEEPERS' REGULATION BILL. The Duke of SUTH E RLAND . moved that the evidence given before the committee upon the Chimney Sweepers' Regulation Bill be printed. The noble duke presented .a petition from the occupiers of work ing coal mines in Staffordshire, praying for a reduction of the assessed taxes. Lord LORTON presented a petition from the Irish clergy complaining of distress, owing to the non payment of their tithes- ROYAL ASSENT. The Royal assent was given by Commission to the Inhabited House Duty Repeal Bill, the Sale of Hay Regulation Bill, the Sale of Fish Regulation Bill, the Dudley Waterworks Bill, the St. George's Mar ket Bill, Staines Bridge Bill, the Gloucester Canal Bill, and upwards of 40 private bills. The Commissioners were—the Lord Chancellor, the Marquis of Lansdowne, and the Earl of Shaftesbury. COERCION BILL. Lord FARNHAM, seeing the noble earl at the head of his Majesty's government in his place, wished to ask him a question previous to the house proceeding with the order of the day. The house and the noble earl must be aware that on the Ist of August a bill of very great importance would expire; he alluded to the Ir'sh Coercion Bill. He wished, therefore, to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's government to move for the renewal of that bill ? Earl GREY said that if it was found to be necessary his Majesty's government would move for the renewal of the bill, but whether with the same provisions as it now contained he could not say. The Duke of GLOUCESTER presented petitions from parishes in Northumberland,•and Gloucestershire, in favour of the Established Church. The Earl of WESTMORELAND presented simi lar petitions from parishes in Westmoreland. The Duke of CLEVELAND presented a petition f ro m the dissenters of Wellington, for the removal o f t he. grievances under which they laboured, and for the separ,7tioa of Church and State. The noble duke thought mat7v parts of the petition well worth : the consideration- of their lordships, but he could not coincide with that part which prayed the separation of Church and state. The Earl of WARWICK presented petitions from St. .Ilichael, Coventry, and Nuneaton, in favour of the establishA i:hurch. , The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented two petitions from the inhabitants of Calcutta, praying for trial by jury, and that the difficulties that attended the descent of real, property in that county might be removed. The Earl of ROSEBERRY moved the third read ing of the Additional Ministers. ( Scotch) Bill. The Earl of HADDINGTON moved the addition of t:vo clauses, the first leaving the law as it at present stood in any parish where the patron solely built and endov.-.ltl an additional church or chapel, which was agreed to ; and the other was to the effect that where the fourth of the whole expense was con tributed by the heritors of the parish, the nomination of the minister should rest with them, subject to the control of the Church Courts. The Earl of ROSE BERRY objected to that clause, on the ground e thamtent its between introduction wo tors and the uld tend to create a disagre feuars of a parish. The Earl of H ADDINGTON supported the clause. He said that if all parishes were mere country ones, the feuars might subscribe little, and but little,in comparison to the heritors, and then by their numbers alto gether oust them. In towns again the volun tary system would lead to popular elections, which would not tend much to the good of religion. The house then divided,when there appeared for the clause— Contents Non-contents - 43 Majority against the clause The bill was then read a third time, and rased. LONDON AND WESTMINSTER BANK B Oa our readmission to the gallery, we found Counsel at the bar on the London and Westminster Bank Bill. In answer to a question from the LORD CHAN- Mr. Harrison replied on behalf of the Bank of Eng land. The LORD CHANCELLOR said, partly from the great number of persons and from the extent of the interests involved in this concern or scheme—he did not wish to use an offensive term—partly (though there was not the least ground for an imputation of impropriety in this case) on account of the use that might be made of it, if the decision come to was not perfectly satisfactory to the mind of his Majesty's sub jects, for this would probably not be the only applica tion that would be made—knowing, too, that the opi nions in Westminster Hall were not unanimous on the matter, inasmuch as several very eminent lawyers and other individuals on whose opinions the public placed m- ,1 1 reliance, and they certainly were entitled to great r. were disagreed as to it—and partly because he thought it would be better for the Bank of Eng land itself, as well as more to be desired, with re ference to the Legislature,—on these accounts, in his opinion, this question ought to be at once discussed, and once for all decided. With these views, he was about to suggest to their lordships a course of pro ceeding that would give them little or no trouble, and that, in his judgment, would lead to a satisfactory re sult. He proposed that the Lord Chief Justice of the Court of King's Bench, who, in his absence, acted for him as deputy Speaker of their lordships' house, should be allowed to sit any morning that might be convenient to the learned judges, and with them decide the question he would submit to them. He proposed merely to bring under their view the former acts of Parliament, and the provisions of the present act. Having looked at which, he would ask them whether it would be an infraction of the rights of the Bank of England, secured to them by the existing statutes, to pass the present bill ? If their answer was in the affirmative, that would put an end to all further doubt on the subject. But he was not equally certain that if they were of opinion it would be no infraction, regard being had to the unders - anding of the parties at the time the contract was made with the Bank ( Hear, hear)—if they were of opinion that legally and technically speaking, there would be no infraction, he was not, he repeated, equally certain that the parties interested in the London and Westminster Bank would thereby acquire a right to demand a de cision—which the passing of the bill would certainly he—in their favour. If their lordships were sitting only judicially, the case would be very different ; but if the parties had the law with them, it did not follow that their lordships, as a legislative assembly, would decide in favour of the expediency of the measure. (Hear, hear.) He had a strong opinion as to what was likely to be the result of the opinions of the judges. He thought that, on the whole, this would be the most satisfactory mode. It would give their lordships no trouble. One counsel could state what were the acts, and then the judges could deliver their opinions on the act. Lord WYNFORD asked the noble and learned lord if he would say what was the form of the question he would put to the judges ? The LORD CHANCELLOR would state it at once. He thought it would be found best to put the whole matter very distinctly and succinctly. The question was this—whether it would be an infraction of the legal rights of the Bank of England to grant to a joint stock banking company, consisting of more than six partners, who had not the power to issue notes of their own, the privilege of suing, or being sued, in the name of ther Secretary ? The Duke of WELLINGTON attached great importance to the statement of the noble lord, that if the opinion of the judges was, that legally there would be no infraction, that would not decide the question. He came down to the house to support his Majesty's government in the bargain it hail made with the Bank. ( Hear, hear.) An officer of the Government having stated in another place that it had made that bargain with the Bank, in his opi nion it ought to be confirmed. He did not like any part of this transaction. He did not like that the Bank of England should be placed in the hands of Government or Parliament, in order to have it deter mined whether its rights should be granted or not. He believed the noble and learned lord stated quite truly when he said that if the application now made to them were approved it would not be the only applica tion of the kind ttey would have. The difficulty they were now in was one of the consequences of the de claratory clause introduced in the bill of last session, and foreseen and foretold when that bill was under discussion. He was sorry to see the Bank of Eng land exposed to this description of discussion ; because, on some future occasion, their lordships might be in fluenced by some such discussion. He agreed-that the only way was to refer the question to the Judges ; but after their opinion was given, if it was unfavourable to the Bank of England, he should be ready to come down to support his Majesty's Government in carrying into effect that bargain, to the full execution of which the Government was pledged. The LORD CHANCELLOR, in order that there might be no doubt on the subject, would express his full concurrence in the view taken by the noble duke as to what ought to be their course, if it should be found that the law was not with the Bank of England. If, from any communication, or any correspondence between the Bank of England and the Government, it should appear to him that to concede to the present applicants the legal right would be to involve a breach of confidence_on the part of the Government, he would not call on them to act on the strict right, but would put the question to them on the higher ground of le gislative expediency, and ask them to give that view of it the preference. The Marquis of BUTE said that the parties in terested in the London and Westminster Bank were anxious and quite ready to have the question decided. He had no private interest in this matter, but if he had he trusted that none of their lordships, nor indeed any individual in the country, would believe he would on that account endeavour to influence their lordships in favour of the bill. ( Hear.) Unless, however, the Government should be able to show a specific contract with the Bank of England, or such a contract as would render it dishonest to pass the bill, he hoped that those who were interested would not be debarred from a common law right. The Earl of ELDON said he did not believe that there was a more honest man in the kingdom than the noble lord who had just sat down, but he nevertheless must dissent from the noble lord's opinion on the pre sent question. It would be impossible for him to give his consent to this measure, if it should turn out that the Bank and the Government understood each other as to the matter in issue. Earl GREY was quite sure that the noble marquis was quite incapable of being influenced by whatever of private interest he might have in the present ques tion. He had a strong opinion that to grant the pri vileges sought by the London and Westminster Bank %you'd be inconsistent with those exclusive privileges which the Bank of England by law possessed. Though he could not say that any specific contract, such as that alluded to by the noble marquis, had been made, yet, no doubt, there was an understanding between Government and the Bank of England, that those pri vileges xhich it had before possessed should be pre served to it. In the first instance he thought it would be better to have the opinion of the judges ; nor could he conceive there could be any doubt of the judges giving their opinion. The question was. whether the granting of certain privileges to this Joint I Stock Company would be inconsistent with those pri vileges which were enjoyed under the existing laws by the Bank of England. He believed that similar ques tions had been put to the judges before ; and he did not know any instance in which they had declined an swering. If their lordships would, in the first place, then, depend on the construction of the law, and next on that general consideration of good faith arising out of the contract between the government and the Bank, he had no difficulty in saying, that in introducing the declaratory clause they had no idea whatever that any privileges secured to the Bank under the existing laws would be in any degree affected. After a few words from the Marquis of BUTE, the debate was adjourned. Shortly after which the house adjourned until ten o'clock to-morrow. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 16. The SPEAKER resumed the Chair at five o'clock. NEW WRITS. On the motion of Mr. C. WOOD, a new writ was ordered for the borough of Chatham, in the room of W. Maherley, Esq., who had accepted the office of Commissioner of his Majesty's Customs ; and for the Elgin district of burghs, in the room of Colonel Leith Hay, who had accepted the office of Clerk of the Ordnance. AiajorI3EAUCLERK presented a petition from the farmers and graziers of Epsom, against the Islington Market Bill. Sir G. STAUNTON presented a petition from a place the name of which we did not hear, in favour of the Itchin Bridge Bill. Sir JOHN HAY presented a petition from Atf.ur Market, in favour of the Established Church. Sir W. HORNE presented a petition from the debtors of some prison, praying for the abolition of I imprisonment for debt. Sir J. SC ARLE TT rose to present a petition from 'gentlemen residing at Epsom, when he was inter rupted by— A messenger from their Lordships, who appeared at the bar, and summoned the house to hear his Majesty s consent given by commission to several bills. The SPEAKER, attended by several members, ac cordingly left the house. The SPEAKER, after an absence of twenty minutes, resumed the chair, when the house agreed to several private acts. Sir J. SC ARLE TT then presented a petition from the members of the established church of Epsom, in favour of the church. • Upon the motion of Mr. BELL, a return was or dered from the various ports of the amount of money received in consequence of the embargo upon Dutch vessels. Mr. E. G. STANLEY presented a petition from the dissenters of Hayeldeem, praying for relief of grievances, and a petition from Coleby, in favour of the established church. Mr. EWART presented a petition from Liverpool against the Church Rates Bill. Lord ALTHORP, in answer to a question from Colonel EVANS, as to what arrangements had taken place.with respect to the office of teller of the Exchequer, said that Lord Auckland still continued to perform the duties of that office, without, of course, receiv ing any salary for so doing, and he ( Lord Auckland) would continue to perform the duties of the office till the Exchequer Offices Bill should come into operation, namely, on the 10th of October. Mr. O'C ONNELL wished to know whether it was the intention of his Majesty's government to renew the Irish Coercion BM? Lord ALTHORP replied that it was, with some alterations. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he should then begin proceedings by having the house called over. Mr. ROBINSON wished to know whether it was the intention of the noble lord to go on with the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill during th morning sittings. Lord ALTHO RP replied that it was not. Sir H. HA RDINGE inquired whether the Foreign Enlistment Bill would be brought forward this evening ? Lord ALT HORP thought that there was no chance of it, as the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill would occupy so much time. In answer to questions put by Mr. O'REILLY, Mr. LITTLETON stated that he had under stood that the early crops of potatoes in Ireland had failed, but the second crop was expected to be fruitful ; at all events there was no failure of the general stock of that sort of food. With regard to the Cholera Bill it would not expire until the end of the present session. Mr. SHAW wished to ask whether it was the in tention of the hon. and learned member for Dublin to bring forward his resolutions on the Irish Tithe Bill ? Mr. O'CONNELL said that Ireland could place no reliance on the present ministers, and he should sQrtainly press his resolutions. In answer to a question put by Mr. HUME, Lord ALT H ORP said that Lord Conyngham had been appointed Postmaster-General. Mr. C. BULLER moved as an amendment to the order of the day, that orders of the day should take precedence of motions on Thursdays for the remainder of the session. Lord ALT HORP said, that if the house had no objection to the motion, he had none. Colonel EVANS objected to the amendment. Mr. HUME had heard no reason, and knew none, why they should make the proposed alteration. After a few words from Mr. EWART and Mr. PoULTER, Mr. C. BULLER said that his object was to have Thursday made an order day instead of Wednesday. Mr. O'CONNELL said that it would be time enough for the hon. member to bring forward such a proposition in the middle of October. ( A laugh.) Mr. PR YME suggested as the only means of ending the session before October, that hon. mem bers should withdraw those motions which they had on the books, and which were not of pressing importance. After a few words from Mr. C. BULLER, strangers were ordered to withdraw, but on our return to the gallery we understood that no division had taken place. CELL' lit, :(llt p 1, . elli,z4;s ..pf.. ,E\l4arid d inseerb t ‘il h ir e . a F p o p l e le ar tt e f d or fo t r he th Lon p d t o ' n .1 7 4- ~, Ld! t % Lla Against the bill, Mr. La e vi e fo l ; V - ‘ I 'an was htsrfl first. ~..• . • , 4 '. qr r, - - Vddfard' $4.11 concluded his arguments --. :4 - fiJnifasiir• %.r.iillete axidtez4d / their lordships in support of the 44(11.',1,4 )4. POOR LAWS' AMENDMENT BILL. The SPE AKER then put the question for the house resolving Itself into a committee of the whole house on the Poor Laws' Amendment Bill. Mr. COBBETT rose for the purpose of moving the amendment of which he had given notice, relative to the appropriation of one-fourth of the income of incumbents, and of the revenues of the abbey lands and inappropriate tithes in each parish previous to any assessment being made for the relief of the poor of such parish. His great object in proposing the amendment was to establish the right of the poor to receive relief from abbey lands and impropriate tithes. The bill now before the house proceeded on the ground that unless some change took place, the poor rates would ulti mately swallow up the whole property of the land owners. Persons in 'the middle classes of life were suffering more from the poor rates than the landed pro prietors. The poor had now a right to relief under the 43d of Queen Elizabeth. This was g iven as a compensation for what they lost by being . deprived of their right to relief from abbey lands and improp riate tithes, which were taken from them at the time of the Reformation. His proposition was not a new one. It was suggested to Mr. Pitt by a Magistrate for two counties, a gentleman who had learned the law and .retired from it. Mr. Pitt did not deny the justice of the clause, but was unwilling to raise the question in consequence of the French Revolution. The poor had this right by canonical law, by common law, and by statute law. Henry VIII. took from them that to which they were justly entitled. By the Act of Richard 11. it was provided that enough should be applied from the abbey lands and the impropriate tithes for the sup port of the poor, and this was confirmed by the act of Edwa d the Fourth. Those, however, on whom the abbey lands and tithes were conferred by Henry the Eighth refused to contribute. An attempt was made to compel them, but it failed. He contended that the repealing of the 43d Act of the reign of Elizabeth was a great injustice. It granted compensation to the poor for having the rights they formerly enjoyed taken from them,and this compensation was now taken from the poor by the bill before the house. He should like to hear the arguments of any hon. gentleman of that house against the claims he said the poor had. If he went back two or three centuries to prove those rights he could not be blamed for so doing, since the government went back to a similar period to take them away. If the go vernment went back to take away the rights of the poor which they held by act of Parliament—if the government thought fit to repeal that act—then the poor ought to go back to their pristine and pre t-riptive rights, and claim, as they did at the time of riots, what they had an ancient title to, viz., one-third part of the tithes. He would assert, without fear of cont-adiction,• that one-third part-of the tithes and of the abbey lands belonged formerly to the poor. Some gentlemen might imagine that when he was making this assertion he was aiming a side blow at the church. He was doing no such thing, but quite the contrary ; ho was doing good to the church by putting forward such an assertion. And if the church thoroughly un derstood its own interests it would co-operate with the poor in asserting their claims ; it would join its rights to those of the poor, and the more so since both the church and the poor were going to be plun dered, and that shamefully, by the measure before the house. This was not his single opinion. Mr. Townshend, a clergyman of the Church of England, accused the owners of abbey lands and of great tith es o f h av i ng broken their original compacts, by which they became possessed of such description of property. They had betrayed their trust and broken their compact ; first, as regarded the rights and claims of the poor • and, secondly, they had most scandalously broken t h e m as regarded the clergy, and particularly th e wor ki ng clergy. H i e knew many instances in whi c h i n par i s h es the lay impropr iators took away in s h ape o f t i t h es three or four hundred pounds a year, and left t o the working clergyman the miserable pittance of ten pounds a year. That was the case in ldersham. In a parish in Hampshire, with which he was acquainted, it was even worse. In that parish six hundred pounds a year were taken away, and only fifteen pounds a year were left to the working clergyman. He would make a bet with the noble lord opposite—h e would stake all he was worth in the world—that his ( Mr. C.'s) resolutions would be adopted by an English Par liament, and be made the law of the land, before the detestable bill then before the house. He would ag ain refer to the rev. gentleman he had before quoted, viz., Mr. Townshend, who was a prebendary of Durham, and who held doctrines averse to the holding og tithes by lay impropriators and to the present possession of abbey lands, and who thought that it was the absence of resident clergymen that caused all the danger to the church under which she laboured at present. In Botley, the parish in which he was horn, 9001. a year was taken away by the lay impropriator, who allowed no more than 28/. a year to the working clergyman. The consequence was that the clergyman could not reside in the parish, and only went to perform divine service there once a month, or thereabouts. If the church was in danger, and if it fell now, it was be cause on the present measure it was not making com mon cause with the poor. The measure tended equally to plunder the church and the poor. Mr. Townshend, when he wrote his book and made his statements, ne ver dreamt that these Poor Law Commissioners would arise and take from the poor the Act of Elizabeth. If that statute was taken away—if the rights of the poor to compensation were taken away, and such would be the effect of the passing of the bill before the house—Englishmen would have a right to go back to tithes and abbey lands, and to take with their own hands what belonged to them formerly by right. If they did not do so, they would not be showing them selves as awake to their own rights as they generally were. If part of the tithes were now restored to the people, then would he say that the Church was built upon a rock. But it would be built on sand and would certainly fall if the rights of the poor were taken away ; and the passing of the bill before the house would without any doubt deprive the people of those rights. Mr. F. O'CONNOR seconded the amendment. The question having been put from the Chair, Lord ALTH OR P agreed to the intimation made by the hon. member, that the object of his amend ment was the relief of the poor, and such was also the object of the bill before the house. If the hon. member would consent to bring forward the question in the shape of a substantive motion he (Lord Althorp) would be prepared to meet it in that form. He hoped the house would not agree to the mode in which the question was introduced. Mr. GODSON did not mean to detain the house, nor prevent it from going into committee ; but he really thought, that before the bill was finaly passed this question as to the rights of the poor to relief ought to be maturely discussed. The house then divided, when there appeared— For going into Committee For Mr. Cobbett's amendment Majority —lo3 On re-entering the gallery we found the house in committee. The 60th clause (that which relates to emigration) having been past, Mr. W. W IT M 0 E said that provided this clause were fairly considered, he thought very great facilities would be afforded to the final passing of the measure before them. Great good he now considered might be done if a surplus labouring population were sent out of an old and overgi own country to new and thinly-popu lated countries, where labour was necessarily in high demand. The only objections to sending away a sur plus population was the constant and heavy expendi ture it would entail on the country that sent them if a large stream of emigrants was continued to be sent away. He certainly was of opinion that in some parts of England there was a surplus labouring population; that was that there was more labour than was demanded. He had looked into the report of the Poor Law Com missioners, and he found that in the ten years preced ing 1821 the increase of population was ninet2en per cent. ; in 1831 it was fourteen per cent. In the counties of Buckingham and Nottingham it was in 1821 about fifteen per cent., and nine per cent. in 1831. In Cambridgeshire the returns exhibited an increase in 1821 of twenty per cent., and in 1831 of eight per cent. These increases were on the ten years previous, from 1811 to 1821, and from the lat ter year to 1831. In Sussex one of the commis sioners stated that the amount of population for the last twenty years had increased from 161,577 to 204,707, or about an average of 26 per cent. From 1811 to 1831 he found that in thirteen counties in which the poor laws were ill administered, there was an increase in the thirteen counties of 48,425 &raffles. Now, when he contrasted these thirteen counties with thirteen northern counties in which the poor laws were well administered, he found that the increase in the same period of the agricultural population was not more than five thousand families. If in the southern counties it were found that no increase had taken place in agriculture, was it not a reason for believing that there was a considerable surplus in the agricul tural population of those counties in which the poor laws were ill-administered ? He confessed that he was one of those who entertained the opinion that in those last-mentioned counties there was a population somewhat redundant. If there had not been so much poor rates taken out of the pockets of the farmers in those counties they would be able to afford more em ployment to agricultural labourers. He still, however, believed that in certain portions of the country there was not sufficient employment to afford its fair value to labour. If such were then the case—and he believed that it was—he would say with respect to this clause, which gave the commissioners the power of raising money, that it deserved to be supported. In the view that he took of England, he considered that it was perfectly possible to introduce a system of emigration, the expenditure attendant upon which would not de pend on any funds raised in this country, but on funds that would accrue from the sale of colonial waste lands. When he put forward this opinion it might be necessary for him to give the house an idea of the extent of those waste lands. In our North American colonies the extent of land ungranted and uncultivated amounted to twenty-three millions of acres. In Aus tralia there was an extent of territory measuring from east to west 2,000 miles, and from north to south 1,700 miles. At the Cape there was unoccupied a tract of land measuring in breadth 240 miles and in length 270. Therefore the -only question that re mained was as to what value would accrue from these waste lands if they were brought into the market to be sold. There was very little doubt but that there would be a considerable value arising from such a sale. When capital and labour were applied to these lands no one could doubt but they would yield considerable value, and he believed that the amount would be greater than many gentlemen imagined. He had but a very few words to say upon this point. He found that the proceedings of the Canada Company had been attended with very great profits. Large sums had accrued to them from sales of land, and their profits were likely to go on increasing. He had in his possession several statements showing the large profits made by this company. The shares were nominally of 1001. each, on which 181. had been paid, and these were now selling in the market for 491. This was to him a conclusive proof of the increased value given to land by emigration. The progress made in the United -States was also very striking. Formerly uncleared land in the United States sold for seventeen dollars an acre. At present uncleared land sold for from two to four dollars, and land partially cleared for from four to sixty dollars. If they looked also to the land in the different townships they would find a corresponding increase of value. A document had been put into his hand as he came down to the house, showing the change that had taken place in the value of land in a township at the extremity of Lake Michigan, where building land, which a short time ago sold for 400 dollars an acre, was now selling for 3,000 dollars. If reference was made to the value of land in York, North Carolina, similar circumstances would be found to obtain. Indeed so great appeared the change that it was almost startling. In the ' United States the most extensive tracts of land had been taken into cultivation by means of emigration. He was extremely anxious to impress upon the house the fact that to whatever point the stream of emigration had been directed there the price of land had been raised. The question, then, was, whether, when, by the applica tion of labour and capital in the neighbourhood the value of unenclosed lind was raised, that the money for tilt sale of such land should not be appropriated towards promoting emigration ? He was satisfied that the greatest benefits would accrue to the country from en couraging. the tide of emigration to our North Ameri can colonies. He had intended to move for a com mittee on the subject of emigration at the early period of the session, but circumstances had prevented him doing so ; but if he found other members coincided with him in the view that he took of the subject, he should in the next session move for a committee. The hon. member then proceeded to dwell on the advan tages that would result from establishing a colony in the south east corner of New South Wales, founded on principles which were fully developed in a bill.before the house. With reference to the bill then under consideration, he recollected no measure that had ever been brought forward which was likely to be attended with greater advantages to the country than the one under c onsideration. He was convinced that none would derive more advantage from it than the hon. member. ( Hear, hear.) He could not help feeling that the man who could stand up and advocate the present system had something of the nature of the fiend in him. Parts of the present system of poor laws tended to make the labourers of the country slaves, to , dry up the sources of morality, to destroy the' best feelings of our nature, and to spread vice and immo rality through the land. The hon. member concluded with moving an amendment to the effect that it shottld be lawful for the Secretary of State for the Colonies +to advance to the overseers of parishes requesting cer tain sums out of any money accruing from the sale of land in the colonies, and that such money should be so advanced for the purpose of encouraging emigration of labouring men and their wives, being chargeable to the parishes. Colonel T ORR ENS gave his cordial support to the amendment. He had ever been favourable to the principle of emigration, and thought that the present bill could not in many respects be enforced without applying emigration. It was impossible also to apply the principle of emigration with any advantage in Eng land without also doing so to Ireland. To benefit the English labourer permanently they must raise the condition of the Irish labourers. They could only benefit Ireland to any great extent by turning the tide of emigration from that country. He knew that some hon. members were opposed to his views. He believed that the hon. member for Oldham was opposed to them. [Mr. Cobbett—" Yes."] He (Col. Torrens) was glad to hear the hon. member make such an ad mission, because it convinced him (Colonel Torrens) that the view he took of the subject was correct. ( A laugh.) If they acted according to the principles of the hon. member they ought to abandon the North American Colonies. Mr. COBBETT said, the hon. member for Wol verhampton and the gailant colonel had both dwelt on the fertility of the land in Canada; but he (Mr. Cob bett) knew that the most fertile lands there were not better than that barren place, Bagshot-heath. ( A laugh.) Was the house prepared to adopt such ex travagant notions as had been set forth by the hon. member for Wolverhampton ? The case was simply this :--A man had money to cultivate his farm and pay his labourers, and yet, instead of doing this, he was to give the money to the labourers, and tell them to go to North America. Now if he (Mr. Cobbett) acted in that way, would not that wise, learned, and sober-minded Judge, the Lord Chancellor, have him shut up in a madhouse ; and would any man say that he (Mr. C.) was not very properly treated? The clause, he contended, was as absurd as it was unjust. Mr. Secretary RICE said that the great endeavour of the hon. member for Oldham seemed to be to im press not on the minds of the members of that house, but upon the public mind, that the whole of the colonial possessions of this country were nothing more nor less than a parcel of swamps and rocks which no industry could render productive. The hon. member was, however, too well informed to pledge himself to any thing of the kind, and therefore he (Mr. Rice) had a right to complain of the line of argument which the hon. member had taken. The hon. member con tended that the object of this clause was compulsion ; that it would first drive the labouring classes into a state of bankruptcy, and then force them to emigrate whether they would or not. But was this fair, when nothing was contained in the clause but a mere per mission, when the consent of the party emigrating was indispensable before any one step could be taken? The same representation had been made out of doors. It had been said that this was a new mode of trans portation ; but he would ask how that could be when the party was left to his option, when he might emi grateoseHde by y hou h l i d s erhampton. oo upr o aa r sbsl e l let or i i e t a tnod tothhneee member in t e me h n i b s demr p e l e of a ot s r u p r NerNo,?o v p The object of that amendment was, that the surplus of any monies arising from the sale of crown lands should be applied to defray the ex pense of conveying labourers and their families desirous of emigrating to such of the colonies as they might fix upon for their final destination; but was his hon. friend not aware that this had in point of fact already been done ; that the surplus of moneys arising out of the sale of crown lands had been applied in strict conformity with the terms of his motion ? He ( Mr. Rice) would mention Van Diemen's Land as an instance of this. There a sum of 15,000/. was ob tained by the sale of crown lands, and of that 10,000/. were applied to the encouragement of emigration. He hoped, therefore, that his hon. friend would not press his amendment, but leave the matter as it was at the discretion of the government, with the understand ing, if he pleased, that he might bring it forward on a future occasion, if he saw a necessity for doing so, as a substantive question. It was complained by his hon. friend the member for Bolton, and other hon. members, that the experiment of a new colony was not tried. Now he ( Mr. Rice) could tell his hon. friends that the government would be favourable to such an experiment if it were practicable ; but, feeling that great difficulties must be got over before any step of the kind was taken, they objected, and not without ample reason, to take upon themselves the responsi bility of so important an undertaking as that of found ing a new colony. But the experiment had, in point of fact, been made in the case of the Swan River Settlement. That colony had already cost a great deal of money, and surely Until it was ascertained whether that project answered or not it would not be prudent on the part of the government to try any further experiments of the de3cription.... • • Mr. HODGE S should move an addition to the clause to the effect—" Provided always that no sum of money for any such purpose as aforesaid shall be raised and expended until some provision for the relief of the poor of Ireland be by law established." The CHAIRMAN asked whether the hon. gentle man wished his amendment to follow that which had previously been moved ? Mr. HODGE S replied in the affirmative. Mr. CLAY considered that emigration would be advantageous rather than injurious, and it was on that ground that he approved of the clause. Mr. E. DENISON should support the clause, not withstanding his doing so might incur the animadver sion of the hon. member for Oldham. But one fact was worth a hundred arguments ; and he could assert that the persons who had emigrated to Canada from the parish in which he resided, Dorking, in Surrey, instead of being dissatisfied with the alteration which had taken place in their condition, were so pleased with the prosperity they enjoyed that they had written for their relatives and friends to go out to them. Mr. GROTE hoped that the hon. member for Wolverhampton a ould withdraw his amendment. In his firm opinion no possible mischief could arise from the clause as it stood. He would go further. He was fully persuaded that the effect of the clause would be most highly beneficial to all parties. (Hear, hear.) Mr. HUTT was understood to support the amend mend ; as did Mr. GORDON. Mr. SL ANE Y defended the clause. Mr. CART W RIG HT supported the clause, and mentioned a case where, out of a parish containing four hundred persons, one hundred had emigrated to Upper Canada, with the advantageous result to them selves of plenty of well-paid labour ; and to those who remained behind, a be g h o i o n d d t , otthhf o aoin f nrge c iagi o nfn n , siderably diminished poor rates, and sufficient employment. Mr. BEN ETT would not concede that there was any surplus population. The dreadful distress which pervaded the country was attributable to nothing of the sort. The whole and sole cause of that distress con sisted in the overwhelming embargo laid upon the in dustry and capital of the country, connected with land, in the shape of enormous taxation. Human labour was the wealth of the country, and the more we sent abroad the more we must really impoverish the coun tr wasy. w The or th 15 s meanest., but a beast ohil adl without as w isnwt r hda saos had, nufedtoorarvtsav a hi sdi n enefil a rorae s rts s iduke p ( neap A eoeop:fr l i iti a als u :al l g oobt h chuue ) ert: and according to some of our political economists, it laws of humanity, wheencoaulpdeoppulet baeethammelsasnodnacmhieldrorenns to death at a time. Now flnd s h n e bs h i e st ld en a ee ch a i t fd ho to m b ee a it m l o va re s at that state yet, as there was peopleasl employed, acu l t n u eulo a hr, tea l lrl a c eat tnot o a t dl n uolb i i opt m eneo ak a nEar l . home.br n il g ve (elNat:Ho'n Hear, a , r, better h e a r .p ) e r h I a t p , than a s. he that repeated, which t hthee embargot h peopleat rendered lai went d abroadupon ptho nethe net; land cultivate,aonydn employment e in nt thee i If shape hh r an thempuer oof t o b taxa tionunprofi- table e economists in this e al io country, that andh house, h s o e , v, wondered ho nt os must hhaet acquainted p ol i ti with the fact, had not once mentioned it. Mr. HUME approved of the motion of the hon. member for Wolverhampton, because it involved the principles he much wished to see established, viz., a Parliamentary sanction given to the proper mode of selling Crown lands, and the appropriation of the pro duce to purposes advantageous to the colonies them selves. ( Hear, hear.) Major II ANDL E Y warned the government, and the gentlemen connected with the landed interest, against a measure which they were told was to have the same effect as letting the people have cheap corn from abroad. Mr. E WART called the attention of the hon. Secretary for the Colonies to the necessity of proper superintendents being employed at the different ports to protect emigrants. After a few words from Major HANDLEY, Mr. WHITMORE said that he should withdraw his amendment. Mr. COBBETT could not but disapprove of tha system of sending some of the best part of the agri cultural labourors out of the country when the land was not half cultivated at home. Lord SANDON was glad his hon. friend had with drawn his amendment. Ile should support the clause as it stood in the bill. Mr. TOWER supported the amendment. Mr. PETER said a few words in support of the original clause. Mr. O'CONNELL said that those who talked so much about the causes of the surplus of po pulation, as it was called, of Ireland, evidently knew nothing whatever about the real state of that country. Why, it was notorious that more than one half of the land in Ireland was out of culti vation, and yet people talked of a surplus population. The apparent surplus population, for it was nothing else, and the bad consequences that followed, pro ceeded solely frOm the long-continued misgovernment and misrule ui.der which that country laboured, and he was sorry to see that the present government seemed as fresh to continue that misrule as if it had never been tried ; but thanks be to God, they would fail of success in this as in everything else. Mr. HODGE S should wish very much to see a system of Poor Laws established in Ireland, for he was sure nothing could tend more to ameliorate the condi tion of the labouring classes in that country. He should press hi s amen d ment to a di v i s i on. of Mr. re a P m . en S d C m ß en ( t ) , P a E nd eo h u e ld sl n io o u t l s d up t p hef o er rtt o h r e e the original c l ause. After a few wor d s f rom Mr. PLUMPTR E , t he house divided o n M r . H odge ' s amendment, when t he numbers were— For the amend men t • 20 Against it Majority The clause was then ag ree d t o . p v r o i t n e cip fo le r Clause sixty-one was agreed to, with some verbial .amendments. On clause sixty-two, which related to the mode of acquiring settlements, being read. Lord ALTHORP said. that they had now arrived at those clauses of the bill relating to the law of set tlement. Originally it was proposed to confine the right of settlement to birth, hut that having been much objected' to, he was ready to adopt another mode, not so liable to objection, of obtaining the ob ject that plan had in view. The object they had in view was to giN e freedom of labour throughout the country ; and not wishing to embarrass the bill by any objectionab'e clauses, he proposed to omit several of those now immediately before them, and to change the principle of the law of settlement as to be esta blished by the bill. (Cheers.) He intended to pro pose to the committee that settlement by hiring and service should be abolished (Hear, hear), and also settlement by apprenticeship. By this means they when o of h e settlements wasbirth one alone mode i wdeh o f was gaining would do away with all that part o f th e l aw o f settle menthe had been proposed which obstructed the fr ee c i rcu l at i on o f l a b our , and would therefore gain th e o bj ec t i nten d e d t o be gained to be established. There would certainly be still left several productive of liticration, and which he thought would be productive of'more than settlement by birth onl• would modes have done. e . settlementgaining There e r y settlement at present very difficult of proof it was that of the occupation of a tenement. It was pre posed to diminish that difficulty of proof, by making it necessary for a party to be rated for a year, without mentioning any amount, in order to gain a settle ment. (Hear, hear.) He proposed, then, that clauses 62, 63, 64, and 65 be omitted, and that part of clause 66, down to the word " hereafter," for the purpose of inserting these words, " And be it further enacted, that from and after the passing of this act, no settlement shall be acquired by hiring or by appren ticeship," leaving the rest of the clause as at present; for although they were not called upon to say that settlements should be completed by present hirings, it was otherwise with present apprenticeships, for money had been paid with apprentices for the purpose of gaining settlements. It was just, therefore, to pre serve corporate rights for which a valuable considera tion had been thus given. The question was then put on these amendments. Lord G. SOMERSET asked if a man were rated —no matter at what sum—say 11. or 101. per year — such rating would entitle him to a settlement? He begged to saggest to the noble lord that the clauses proposed to be altered should be printed in their amended form. Lord A L THORP said his first intention was to draw the clauses so that the rate should be limited to at least 101. per annum ; but as he was aware that it was the intention of an hon.-gentleman to move in_the committee that landlords should be rated for all such tenements, and not occupiers, he did not think it de sirable, at all events, in the present stage, to insert such a clause. If, however, the committee should de cline to adopt the proposed resolution, he would then feel it his duty to insert a clause embodying such .a principle. It aid not appear to him at all necessary to go to any further expense in printing, especially when the main alteration which he proposed was the absolute omission of four clauses. After a desultory conversation, in which Mr. Hol comb, Lord Sandon, Mr. Frankland Lewis' Mr. Pryme, Mr. Slaney, Sir G. Strickland , Mr. Pease, Mr. Baines, Mr. Curteis, and Mr. Benett took party The question was put that clause 62 stand part of the bill. The clause was negatived. Clauses 63, 64, and 65 were also negatived. The amendment proposed by Lord Althorp on clause 66 was then agreed to, and the clause, as amended, was ordered to stand part of the bill. Clause 67 was agreed to. In clause 68 it was agreed to insert the following words :—" And be it further enacted, thafro.me n after the passing of thi s act, no settlement shall b ac quired or completed by the occupant of a tenement, unless the person occupying the same shall have been assessed to the poor-rates in res p ect of such tenement for one year." to stand Clause 68, as amended , w as ordered part of the bill. report The house then resumed, the C hairman rep progress, and obtained leave to sit again. The Four per Cent. Annuities B ill was read a se cond time, and ordered to be committed this day. LIME TOLL-EXEMPTION BILL. Mr. PARROT moved that t his bill be read second time. Mr. C URTE IS seconded the motion. d the bill, and Sir G. STRICKLAND opp ose moved that it be read a second time t hat da y six months. Mr. J. Buller, Mr. Tower, and Mr. Pease sup ported the bill. Mr. Hodges, Lord Clive, Mr. F. Lewis, Mr. Slig herd, Mr. R. Palmer, and Mr. Rice opposed the bill. The house divided— For the Amendment For the second reading 49 Majority for the amendment _ —l l CORONERS BILL. Mr. CRIPPS moved the third reading o f the County Coroners' Bill. Mr. GREEN opposed the motion, on the group that a committee were sitting on the county-rates, and had not yet made their report. • • The gallery was then cleared, but no division took place, and the bill was read a third time and passed. GREENWICH HOSPITAL BlLL.a.corn_ The Greenwich Hospital Bill went through mittee, the report of which was ordered to be received this day. were then disposed of, The other orders of the day . house this m ornin g the and at half-past two o'c lock rni ad journed. BIRTHS. On at Bryanston, the Lady Emma Port . On the 1 5 th i nst., of a daughter. man, t h e 16th i ns t., the lion. Mrs. Howard, o f a daughter . 16 t h inst., the Duchess of Sutherland, of a daughter. On On the 14th inst., in Hertford-street, the lady of Wynne, jun, Esq., of a son and heir. theOn 9th inst., at Uyon, on the Lake of Genera, the lady of Henry Baynes War.:(.1.13.. MARRIED. 7 On the 10th inst., at St. Clement De,ne',:oortni eldest daughter of Robert Williams,' E.sciclf:,T6t drowaelod, Denbighshire, to Mr. John fler, ° ; tenham-court-road. _„ Jan os Hunt, of On the 12th inst., in Blarney Churc`;' A n ne, jroung e . st: Aldworth, in the county of Cork, Esti h f Abbeville, ;the 111 daughter of the Rev 'William Stoproi - " , same county. DIED. ent, D av id On the 14th inst., at Letrishein, K Esq., of Whitchureh, Hante;inhis-43aleffel...,tain 'rho. On the 7th inst., at YercheylartNAo76...7,7 Fit zg etaid, late of the 2 *‘ R alg este o u to,:- EkisabeOt On t h e 14th. sq., of Sotterley_o o "• d a ughter of the late Sufi lk• • " 11 : Printed and Pabribistlliy . MPßOQ l e Orq r° 1 14V 1, i the' Baia Offiei;l4:ll2;lliririct: • •. . .