The Sun. — London, England, 1856-04-09 00:00:00

iVipERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY). The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at tive o'clock. The Bishop of EXETER presented a petition against the bill to legali-e marriago with a deceased wife's sister. The Earl of HARDWICKE presented a petition in favour of a regular steam postal commuLication between this country and Australia. THE LATE LORD TRURO'S LIBRARY. The LORD CHANCELLOR. wished to set himself right upon a question oa which it appeared he had com mitted a mistake. It would be in the recollection of their lordships that immediately before the Easter recess, the noble marquis informed the house that a oommunication bad been received from Lady Truro, and he was deputed to inform the house that her ladyship had expressed a wish to present the law library of the late Lord Truro to their lordships' house. Upon that occasion Lord Lyndhurst passed a well-merited eulogium upon the deceased nobleman. He thought it necessary to add a few words for the pur pose of reminding the house of the great efforts made by Lord Truro in the way of Chancery Reform. lie had been understood, also, to have said that it was Lord Truro who had actually drawn up those reforms of that court which had been subsequently passed into a law. It appeared that he was not quite correct in that observation, and he now begged to say that he would be the last man in the world to detract from the merits of the noble and learned lord near him (Lord St. Leopards), who was really the author of those bills. AGRICULTURAL STATISTICS BILL. On the order of the day for the third reading of this bill, The Duke of RICHMOND intimated that the did not intend to oppose the measure, blit upon the part of the farmers of East Sussex, who had petitioned against it, observed that after the manner in which they had been treated in 1846, their lordships could scarcely be surprised at their regarding with suspicion any act in terfering with them. They did not complain so much of being called upon to - furnish agricultural returns, but they considered that they ought not to be compelled to do so by act of Parliament, and to be punished with penalties for neglect. Re contended, however, that the Government had begun at the wrong end. They ought to have turned their attention, in the first place, to the amendment of the system of taking the corn averages. A more gross delusion never did and never could exist than the returns now furnished. As affording any thing like a correct average of price they were alto gether useless, although in many parts of the country the rent was made dependent upon the averages so obtained. A large proportion of the corn sold never found its way into the averages at all ; and he would suggest that the 20 or 25 thousand a year which it would coat to carry this bill into operation would be far more usefully employed in remedying this evil and injustice than in subjecting the farmers to unnecessary annoyance. He objected to the attention of the poor-law officers being diverted from their own proper duties to the col lection of agricultural statistics, and protested against the penalties of the bill imposed as outrageous. Lord WODEHOUSE contended that the apprehen sions of the farmers as to the effect of this bill were ground less, and that as soon as it was discovered that it would not interfere inquisitorially with their - affairs, not only would their objections vanish, but, as the information which would be collected would be of great we to them, they would receive the measure with satisfaction. The Earl of MALIVIESBURY wanted to know whe ther the power of the guardians of adding to the sche dules would enable them to call for returns of rent ? Lord STANLEY of ALDERLEY replied that all the power the Board of Trade had reserved was to increase or diminish the particular descriptions in the several columns. He admitted the desirability of improving the mode of taking the corn averages ; and directions bad been given in several of the market towns to enforce the law with greater strictness, the result - of which had been that the returns were far more accurate than in former years, and afforded a fair criterion of the price of corn. He defended the compulsory part of the bill as necessary, though he did not believe there would be any more occasion to enforce the penalties than there had been in the case of the census. There the knowledge that the power of enforcing compliance with the act ex isted was sufficient to induce people to furnish the re turns required, and it would doubtless be so in this case. He knew how important it was to obtain the co-opera tion of the gentry in inducing the farmers to come for ward and assist the Government in obtaining the neces sary information ; but that information, while beneficial to the country at large, would, he believed, be most be neficial to the farmers themselves. The Duke of RICHMOND said that when the b became law, he should, as he always had done, advise the farmers to obey the law. However, in his opinion, it was only 25,0001. thrown away. Lord ABINGER said he had not heard any state ment that convinced him of the benefits of this bill, nor did he think the farmers desired it. It would, in his opinion, only serve the speculators, who were the per sons interested in knowing the probable surplus produce of the year. The bill was read a third time and passed. INDIAN FINANCE. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE moved that the return of the territorial revenues and disbursements of the East India Company, lately presented to the house, be printed, and asked for a return of the military dis• bursements during the years included in the foregoing return, specilying the Presidencies and province in which they have been incurred. The papers laid before Parliarnet.t contained no account of this expenditure. He thought it was time to consider the financial state of India, as it appeared the present annual deficiency of the revenue exceeded 2,000,0001. The Duke of ARGYLL said there would be no ob jection on the part of the Government to furnish all the information it possessed ; the military expenditure in the several Presidencies might be given, bat there would be some difficulty in going into the detail re quired to distinguish that of the different provinces. After a few words from same noble lords the motion was agreed to. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS.--(YEsTERDAy.) The SPEAKER took the chair at the usual hour. Several petitions were presented against the abolition of Church rates, and also against certain clauses in the Factory Act. Mr. PIGOTT presented petitions from - Reading against the endowment of the College of M.vnooth, and against the bill for abrogating the oath of abjuration. Mr. LOWE presented a petition from Liverpool in favour of limited liability, with certain restrictions. CON VIC rs. Mr. SCOTT moved f,,r a return of the number of convicts transported during each of the years from 1849 to 1855, both inclusive, di.tinguishing the sexes and the places to which they have been transported ; anti, of the number of males and fetnales sentenced to penal servi tude since the passing of the act.—Agreed to. CHURCH , RATES. Lord R. CECIL asked the hon. member for the Tower Hamlets whether it was his intention to accede to the changes which the Government proposed to make in his Church-rates Bill ? Sir W. CLAY said it was his intention to accede to the amendments proposed by the Government. BLEACH- WORMS BILL. _ _ _ Mr. M. GlBSON.asked the hon. member for. York what course he intended to pursue with respect to the Bleach-works Bill ;, and, also, if he intended to make any changes in the bill, whether he would make those amendments public ? Mr. I: BUTT said the bill stood so far down on the paper to-morrow that he did not think he should be able to bring it forward on that day. He intended to make certain alterations in the bill, and those alterations would be made public as speedily as possible. ABOLITION OF CAPITAL PUNISHMENTS. Mr. W. E WART gave notice that on the 13th he should bring an a motion on the subject of the abolition of the punishment of death. ITHE OT. Mr: G. LANGTON, on BALL behalf of Mr. H. ,BerkeleY, postponed the motion, standing in his name on the sub ject of the ballot, from the 22d till the 24th inst. TIIE CRIMEAN MEDALS. Major SIBTHORP asked the Under-Secretary for War whether it was ever contemplated by the Govern ments of France or Turkey to give a medal to the officers and soldiers.of the British army in the East ; and, if so, whether such medal had been declined by the British Government ? Whether the new medal, Vie order of merit, was likely to be issued, and who were to be the recipients thereof. Whether it was to be given for future service only or to be accorded to those officers and soldiers already mentioned in the various despatches since the commencement of the late wart Whether a claim made for the effects and medal due to private No. 2,544, John Martin, late of the 95th Regiment, who was engaged at Alma, and, it is be lieved, also at Taken:nen, who died in camp before Se bastopol on the 7th of November, J 854, had been refused on the ground that the soldier was of illegitimate birth and, whether the money and Crimean medal due to private No. 3,310, James Blanchard, late of the Ist battalion Rifle Brigade, who landed with the British army in the Crimea in September, 1854, and who was killed in the trenches before Sebastopol on the 22d of August.lBss, had been refused on si m il ar grounds ? Mr. F. PEEL said the Government bad great satis faction to hear that it was the intention of the Emperor of the French to confer a war medal upon the British troops engaged in the late war. Those medals had been received, and would shortly be distributed. The Sultan al so had.. declared his intention to bestow a similar medal. With respect to the other questions put by the hon. arid gallant member, he begged to say that acts of gall try, perfo rme d since the commencement of thQ war, would be considered a sufficient claim for the decoration of the new order of merit. He could not say when the decorations would be distributed, but no time would be lost in pre paring for such distribution ; and the circumstance of the withholding of the medal from the two privates was* owing to the causes mentioned by the hon. member in his question. WROUGHT-IRON GUNS. C ap t a i n L. VERNON asked whether the trial at Shoeburyness, between Mr.. Holroyd's 12. pounder wrought-iron gun of a particular metal, and a 12-pounder brass gun of the service, had shown results satisfactory to the comparative endurance and tenacity of the metal composing the wrought-iron gun ? Mr. MONSELL said the experiments at Shoebury- irriE Lo '.D - - WEDNEgDIC* ness had showed the remarkable tenacity of ii but the experiments were not yet completed. Tun NE WGATE MARKET. Mr. BRADY asked the Secretary of State for the Horne Department if he had any intention of Olosing the . . existing markets ..f Newgate and L?adenhall, vihichwere admitted to be insufficient and h.cornmodious; with the view of eßtablishing a great central market in the neigh bourhood of S,Pithfield Mr. MASSEY said an inquiry was at prOont going onwith respect to the transfer - of Newgate 'tnarket to another locality, and also to consider the subject of the appropriation of the site of Smithfield. Those' inquiries would soon terminate their labours, and their report would be laid on the table of the house. - INCOME TAX. Mr. MUNTZ having presented a number of petitions against the present mode of levying the inclme tax, and also baying read a statement that had been ad dressed to him from a person in Ire4nd, pro ceeded to bring forward the subject of which he had given notice ; it was as follows :—" That, in the opinion of this house, an equitable adjustmnt of the income and property tax is essential to the interests of the country, particularly as regards the rates of pay ment upon industrial and professional incomes, com pared with those derived from fixed property." The hon. gentleman proceeded to point out the inequa lity of the present mode in which the tax was levied, and contended that an equitable readjustment was absolutely necessary. He thought a pro perty tax properly levied one of the best taxes pos sible, because those parties who were in the receipt of large sums arising from landed property were c )spelled to contribute to the wants of the' country. They allowed the rich to escape their fair proportion of this tax, whilst the poor man bad often to pay on more than he really earned. It was a question of expediency with Government to get all they could, and not what they were entitled to. No man ought to advocate the continu ance of such a system, and be felt satisfied that when its de fonts became thoroughly known no man would be found to defend it. The hon. gentleman then proceeded to exem plify the working of this tax on income, landed property, and funded property, which, he contended, allowed the unequal and unjust nature of the tax. He called on the house to remedy the injury he had pointed out' Mr. P. URQUHART seconded the motion, but in so doing he disagreed with many of the deductions of the hon. member for Birmingham. Piiblic opi- _ ... pion was strong against this tax, and very soon it must be attended to, and an attempt; made by the Government to remedy the inequalities of it. - The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that although the hon. member for Birmingham had not gone very fully into the subject, aor stated With any distinctness the ground upon which he asked the house to revere• the policy which had been followed by this coun try with regard to an income tax since it was first intro onced by Mr. Pitt, nevertheless the motion was of such importance that it would, if the house were to assent to it, although it was put. in the terms of an abstract mo tion, engage them to enter into the task of an entire re construction of the existing inoome tax. (Heur hear.) Now, he would, with the permission of the libuse, just state briefly the existing conditions of the tax. The present income tax was at the rate of ls. 41 in the pound, which was equal to 6/. 133, 4d, per cent; and ac cording to the existing law it was continued for one year from the exchange of the ratifications of a definitive treaty of peace, from the sth April next following, at the exist ing rate. On the sth April, 1858, it would, according to the existing law, be reduced to sd. in the pound, and ac cording to the same law it would cease altOgether in April, 1860. It was under these circumstances that the hon. member invited the house to take a course which would necessitate an entire alteration of the principles and detailed provisions of the existing law ; and in call ing on the house to enter upon that very arduous under taking the hon, member had carefully abstained from in dicating anything more than a mere general principle upon which that reconstruction would have to be carried out. It reminded one of Dr. Johnson, in one of his lives of the poets, having taken occasion to speak of a criti cism upon Dryden's translation of Virgil, mentioning that the critic had been careful to place at the end of his critique a translation by himself ; upon which Dr. John son remarked that, at all events, he who did so was en titled to the praise of being a fair critic. Now he (the Chan cellor of. the Exchequer) wished he could bestow the same praise on the hon. gentleman in the present case. He wished that e in criticising the existing income tax, and in condemning its principle and details, the hon. gentleman had told the house with something like distinctness what was the nature of the tax which he would substitute for it. It would be perfectly competent to the hon, gentle man, in committee of ways and means, when there might be a question of raising the means for the expen diture of the next year, to move resolutions, and indi cate in detail the nature of the tax be would propose to substitute for the existing income tax. All taxes, whether direct or indirect taxes, were subject to serious objections. There was rio person of any ingenuity and knowledge who could not take any individual existing tax, and point out the great disadvantages of which it was productive. It was in the very nature of taxation that every tax should produce some incidental evils. All that could be said was that Government was, upon the whole, a beneficial institution, and that Government could not be carried on without taxation; and that the best o 7 the least bad taxes that could be levied were those which the Government ought to impose and collect. But he was afraid that if a finance minister were to wait until a tax could be foiled absolutely perfect, and one that should attain ideal excellence, if the Chancellor of the Exchequer were to pause until he found a tax to which no sound or specious objections could be made, he would have to present himself arinn ally with an empty budget. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman attacked an existing tax ; and, of course, every tax which levied a large sum of money annually (and the sum levied by the existing income tax in the last year was no less than 16,482,0001.) must naturally produce many complaints and grievances on the pat t of the public, and alleged cases of injustice and incon venience done to individuals. The hon, member com pared it with a mere vague and general description of a different principle, aed gave the house no oppurtunity of comparing one scheme with another ; namely, the plan of the existing tax with the tax which he would substitute for it. Now, having listened to his speech, and to that of the honourable gentleman who seconded his resolution, but who seemed to differ with bins on many material points, as almost all persons who discussed this very difficult subject were apt to differ when they descended to minute _part'culars, he pre sumed that both those hon. gentleman agree I in declar ing, by this resolution, that the rev of payment on industrial and protesdonal incomes ought to be fixed on a I wer scale as c.impered with those derived from fixed property. This principle, the assertion of which was of course familiar to every member of the house, was what, he apprehended, those two hon. gentlemen desired to enforce • and it resolved itself very much into this ques tion, whether this should be am, income tax or a property lax ? That was a short and accurate etatement, he believed, of the views of the hon. member for Birmingham. The hon. member wished that the income tax should be repealed, and that a property tax should be substituted for it. Now, in the first place, he would point out the fact, to which the house would give due weight, that the income tax was introduced by Mr. Pitt during the late war ; that it underwent considerable alterations from 1197 to 1815, when it was repealed ; that it fur nished the sinews of war during that great contest, and that nobody at that time was able to recom mend to the adoption of Parliament any plan which, on the whole, fulfilled the conditions of an unobjection able tax better than the present system. Well, Sir R. Peel, in 1842, profiting by the experience of Mr. Pitt's income tax in the late war, introduced it in its present form, departing in some particulars from the tax which existed during the war, but still adhering in the main to the principle as well as to the details of that tar. The hon. member at the present moment called upon the house to depart from all that experience, and to found the law upon a totally new principle. Let them just consider, then, the grounds upon which such a change was recommended. He believed that those who dis cussed. this question on both sides took as an axiom the well-known dictum of Adam Smith on the subject of taxa tion : "The subjects of every state ought to contribute towards the support of the Government as nearly as possible in proportion to their respective ability ; that is, in proportion to .the revenue which they respec tively enjoy under the protection of the state." Adam Smith did not say, "in proportion to the property which they respectively possess under the protection of the state," but he said, " in proportion to the revenue which they respectively enjoy ;" and that was a distinction to which the attention of the house ought to be directed. In imposing a tax of this sort, he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) thought the state ought t j look, not to property, but to income. The ability of each person to pay ought, in his opinion, to be measured simply for an annual part. The bargain which the state seeme , l to make with the taxpayer was this— "We will give you protection fur a year, and you pay your taxes for a year." Beyond that period or some limited period of that sort, the regards of the state could not well be extended. It seemed to him that taxation could not be considered as pro=pective ; that it vvas. not just to t ax ex p ec tants, which was the princip e upon _which the whole of the property tax was founded. What the state ought-to look to was the present value of an income to enjoy and use, and not its value to sell; That, it seemed to him, with great submission to his hon. friend, was a question wholly irrelevant, to the matter. Now, if en the other hand, the hon. member's principle were adopted, of taxing, not income but property, what would be the consequencss it. in volved ? He would read an extract from a report which the late Mr. Hume proposed for the adoption of the committee of 1852, by which this question of a property or income tax had been very fully considered. The re port, which was not adopted by the committee, but which fully embodied his views, ended with the efollow mug important and striking passage :—" Y o u r commit tee submit finally that the taxation of this country is not fixed on any intelligible principle, and that it be comes more and more, apparent every year, especially if the property tax is to be a permanent tax" (by which was meant the income and property tax), " that the whole of the present system of taxation must be revised ; that the best tax, the tax most easily levied, offering the fewest obstacles in the collection, the least likely to encourage evasion and fraud, will be likely to be an equal tax on the realised and industrial pro perty of the United Kingdom." Now, everybody who read that passage, which was the result of very 'deliberate thought, would perceive that if the principle of that report were fully carried out, the whole of our existing taxes would be swept away—income tax, customs, excise, stamps, and everything—and that an equal tax would be substituted on the realised and indus trial property of the country. That seemed to' be the legitimate conclusioa to - which the doctrine would lead, acid oo doubt the Loa. gentieDlan wa , " quite ready to adopt it. The doctrine appeared to rest on the opposi• lion between fixed property and what was: generally called industrial income ; or, as it was commonly called, and very clearly called, the difference between pertnanent and precarious incomes. Those who talked about per manent and precArious incomes assumed that it was pos sible to clas , ify all wealth, all property, and all incomes into those two classes ; that it was possible to say, "'there is a certain sort of incomes which` are called fixed or perthanent incomes, and there is a certain sort of incomes which are called precarious." Now it seemed to him (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) that such an assumption was entirely foun,:ted in error, that no distinction really did exist in any other sense than that there was a scale of incomes, rising from the most permanent and ending in the most pre- carious incomes ; but that between Chose two extremes there was an infinite number of degrees, and that it was impossible to fix any point at which it could be said that permanent incomes ended and precarious incomes began. It was understood in general terms what was meant by them ; but, if we attempted to found a system of taxation on that distinction, and to apply it in practice, and to say that so doing would obviate all the practical injustice and all the inequality which arose from the present system, he believed that the theory would prove to have been founded in perfect delusion. (Hear, hear.) He would suggest in illustration of this, one or two most obvious case.. Everybody knew hat was the meaning of profits made by trade, by purchasing at the lowest price for which articles oould be got, and selling at the best price that could be obtained for them. Every one knew also what was meant by a professional income, depend. ent en the exertions of the individual, and dependent therefore ❑pen his health and capacity of continuing his profession—as in the case of a barrister or a medical man, for example. But what would be said to an inter mediate case—a very common case—that of an income derived from an estate for life ? Was that to be con- sidered as precarious or permanent income. An estate fur life was a freehold estate,accarding to the law of England, but nevertheless it did not enable the person, except cut of the yearly proceeds of it, to make any pro vision for his family. Take the case of the parson or incumbent of a parish. He had an estate for life ; but was it proposed that he should pay the full rate of pro perty tax, and that a banker or a merchant, making large profits, of perhaps 20,0001. or 30,0001. a year, should be allowed to be exempt from taxation because he had what might be called a precarious income, while the clergyman with a living of 1501. a year was to be taxed because his living was an estate for life. (Rear.) Everybody must see that if the income tax were to be reconstructed on principles of justice, such cases as these would have to be cons'dered. Then there were an infinite number of interests or estates which could be created ar.d charged upon an estate for life, by settle ments, and various dispositions were made for leaving remainders to children and other persons, expectants on on a life estate. In what manner-was it proposed to deal WI the income of persons having a life interest under such circumstances It would be found that in any at• tempt to adapt the property tax to all these varieties of property, the house would involve itself in an undertak ing from which the mind would recede in a state of actual bewilderment. Then, there was the question of a trade. According to the doctrine of precarious in comes, all incomes derived from trade were held to be such ; that was to say, that the incomes derived from banks, from distilleries or breweries, or from trading companies, some of them long established and Istreng the elements of stability most strongly impressed on them, should be enjoyed by their possessors during the whole time of their natural lives, giving, them opportunities also of making prevision for their children, and be held to be only incomes for the purposes of taxation. (Hear, - hear.) But if by ability to pay was meant the relation between a man's income, either at the present time or hereafter, and the probable demands upon that income, then numberless circumstances must be taken into consideration besides the nature of his property or income ; then his family cir cumstances must be taken into consideration, and his means of obtaining assistance from others ; and there were hardly any two cases is which, if we were to go in to an accurate investigation of a person's ability to pay, - it would not be found necessary to make a difference, and adapt the tax to the circumstances of the indivi dua'. Me believed that in the income tax of" 1805 there was an attempt to make an allowance for children —there were abatements for persons having more than two children ; where the annual income was under 4001., for each child above two there was a deduction from the tax of 4 per cent. ; in the cases of incomes above 4001. a-year, the deduction for each child above two children was 2 per cent., and so on ; but that provision did not very long continue to exist, and it was altered in 1806 or in 1807, and it was not revived after wards when the income tax was reimposed, no doubt be cause of the difficulty of applying such a deduction. But if we were to understand by ability to pay the means which a man had of making his income provide for his wants, unquestionably it would be necessary for us to take into account something more than the amount of his income, and to consider also the demands upon it. The result would be that if they attempted to do justice to in dividuals, if the system was to be effectually carried into operation, it would be necessary almost to make a special case of every taxpayer. But then as to this principle of sparing the precarious incomes, and imposing an ad ditional rate upon permanent incomes—how was it pos sible, the doctrine being so laid down, that they should go on levying an indirect tar which, from the neces sity of the case, bore equally upon all ? (Hear, hear.) A person who had 100,0001. a year, and a mechanic Rho received 15s. a week as wages, paid precisely the same duty upon sugar, and coffee, and tea, and tobacco, and no attempt ever could be made to adapt the tax to the circumstances or the ability of the individual. Therefore if the hon. member was consistent in his view, he must put down all customs, excise, and stamp duties, in order to substitute fer them the 0-pervading pro perty tax. But it would not stop there. It would be necessary that lie should remodel all the local taxes. The local taxes, which produced something more than ten millions a-year, were not levied on the principle of a property tax, but they were mere strictly levied on the principle of an income tax. They were charged upon the occupier in proportion to his annual rent. Now it would be impossible, if they were to hold that the present system of levying the income tax was founded on injustice, it would be impossible that that house could leave standing, unaltered, so large a systen of taxation, producing ten or eleven millions a-year. With regard to schedule D, undoubtedly it was an important part of the present tax. The produce of schedule D last year I was 5.101,0001. ; of schedule A, 7,661,0001. ; of schedule C, 1,802,000/. The number who contributed to sche ilele D, according to the last returns, was net greater than i 282.480 persons. All the incomes in the other schedules were charged not on the taxpayer, but before the income reached the recipient's hands. With regv.rd t, schedule D it was impossible that that practice should be followed ' • it was necessary that the per eine included in schedule D should assess themselves. Now he was far from wishing to make the smallest imputation upon the honoer and integrity of professional awl commercial persons whose incomes were included in schedule D, hut it was in human nature when a man assessed him self for the imposition of a tax that be should be some what more indulgent to himself than if he were assessed by another person. It must also be borne in mind that a great portion of property which might be con sidered as commercial property was included in schedule A. In many respects there was great analogy between that class of property and property included in schedule D. Nevertheless the plan of taxation which the hohourable gentleman proposed would draw a great distinction between these two classes. Since the discussion which took place four years ago upon the subject of the income tax a new tax had been imposed, which to a certain extent altered the relations of schedules A and D. He alluded to the tax on successions. (Hear) That was a tax of considerable magnitude, which was paid at certain periods in large sums, and which fell exclusively upon property included in schedule A. He conceived that the very full and able consideration which his right hon. friend the mem ber for the University of Oxford gave to this subject in bringing forward his budget, when the matter was almost exhausted by the treatment to which he subjected it, woul t have rendered it unnecessary is have brought this question forward again. He bad hoped that the present position of the income tax would have furnished an additional reason why the hon. gentleman should not have brought forward so extensive a motion. He thought this was not a favourable moment fur the entertainment of this discussion, Under these circumstances, he trusted that the house would, alter the purpose which he pre sumed the hon. gentleman had in view had been answered —namely, after it had been subjected to discussion—he trusted that the house would not be disposed to pledge themselves to a proposition the consequences of which were too important to be assented to in the form in which they were proposed. He begged leave to move the previous question. Mr. LAING said he should certainly vote against the motion. To affirm a simple and general principle, and leave the Government to work out the details, was a system that ought not to be applied to questions of finance. He believed it WAS perfectly true that there was no tax in the budget against which strong and valid objectionS . could not be brought, and therefore he could' conceive nothing more dangerous than that the House of Commons should get into the habit of passing resole tior s containing abstract principles unless they saw some practical mode of repealing the tax. On that ground he should vote agaiest the motion. At the same time he by no means assented to the conclusion that the present income tax was by any means perfect in its incidence. On the contrary, he was strongly impressed with the conviction of the income tax being found to be a neces sary and permanent part of our taxation, and in the next place to render it a permanent part of our taxation some revision of the mode of levying the tax was necessary. He did not think it requisite to modify the whole taxa tion of the country, as the Chancellor of the Exchequer put it, in accordance with some axiom laid down by Adam Smith. He believed also that the idea of substituting a property tax for an income tax was equally visionary. He quite agreed that they must levy a certain rate upon that income, and they must not aitetopt to carry out that which was impossible, that any mode of levying the tax arisenwa a p f r e o r f in e c t t hoen incomee. A great not part e o n f g t l h o e o k d e i d ffiu u c p 0 1 t n y had asa permanent part of our system. It was first brought for ward as a short tax, and had been continued as a tempo rary measure ever since ; but he thought we had now arrived at a time when we should look upon the income and property tax as permanent. He should say that the tax should be something like 5 per cent. in time of peace, and that they should regulate their finances in that view ; and therefore it was important that in schedule D . they should escape the inquisitorial charac ter of it on the one hand and fraud and evasion on the other. Mr. WILLIAMS called attention to the hardship on artisans who had been assessed to the income tax, their ieguiar wages not amounting to 100/. a -?ear, but being invido up to that amount by a few days' overwork. It was not the intention when they passed the act that it sh,aild apply to :mob casee, and he trusted the Chancellor of the Exchequer would give directions to the assessors not to press such cases. Mr. SPOONER, could not agree to the whole of the motion. He could not agree that the hardship was wholly upon persons having industrial and professional incomes. Landowners had as much to complain of, for every one who knew anything of land, knew that they must deduct 20 per cent, from the rent to arrive at the net income, avid yet the landowners were assessed upon the rent. Then also they practically paid the tax levied upon the tenant. If the motion went to a division in its present shape he should vote against it. Sir IL WILLOUGHBY complained of the operation of the law of long annuities. In point of fact, long an nuities in their present shape were taxed to the extent of 23 per cent. . . . . Mr. MUNTZ, in reply, said he never had the slightest intention to make any special reservations in favour of any particular class. All that he wished was that the house should affirm, in the words of his resolution, " Tbat an equitable adjustment of the tax was essential to the interests of the country." The house then divided on the previous question, that the motion be now put— 63 ~.- 194-131 Ayes. Noes The question was therefore not put. THE C EIINESE EXPEDITION. Sir J. W. HOGG bad given notice that he would call attention to the claims of the East India Company on her Majesty's Government fur 806,5351., being the ba lance of the expenditure by the Government of India on account of the expedition to China, and to the corre spondence on the subject laid before the house in May, 1854. He would, however, content himself, in the first instance, with asking the Secretary of the Treasury whe ther he had gone through the accounts, and, If so, with what result ? Probably that would render it unneces sary for him to proceed with the subject. Mr. WILSON said there had been a difference of opinion between the Government and the East India Company with respect to the principle upon which the account should•be made out ; but there would not be a difference of more than 200,0001. between them. Sir J. W. HOGG remarked that as the hon. gentle man had admitted a debt of 600,0001. to the East In Company, he shoul I not think it necessary to trouble the house. LIEUT.-COLONEL HARNESS. Capt. L. VERNON moved an address for a copy of the correspondence between the clerk of the Ordnance and Lieut.-Colonel Harness, Deputy Inspector• General of Fortifications, respecting the removal from that mili tary position. Mr. MONSELL sail there was no offic'al correspon dence between Colonel Harness and himself. There had certainly been a private correspondence, hut he could not produce that without Col. Harness's permission. After a few words from several hon. members the motion wai withdrawn. TRANSPORTATION. On the motion of. Sir G. GREY, the following were appointed members of the Select Committee on Trans portation :—Mr. Maine?, Sir J. Pakington, Mr. Scott, Mr. Wortley, Sir W. Heathcott-, Mr. Adderley, the Lord Advocate, Sergeant O'Brien, Mr. Henley, Mr. Wickham, Mr. J. Wynne, Mr. Mas=ey, Mr. B. 130ni son, Mr. Deedes, and Mr. S. Fitzgerald. EDUCATION IN SCOTLAND. The LORD-ADVOCATE, in moving for leave to bring in a bill to regulate and make further provision for paro chial schools in Scotland, also a bill to snake provision for education within burghs in Scotland, referred to the. un successful result of the contest which took place on this sulject last session. The bill ho then introduced was sup ported by a majority of both the English and Scotch mem bers ; but it was thrown out in another place. That bill gave a better prospect of restoring the old character of Scotland as one of the best-educated countries in Europe than any other measure that had been proposed. Though his opinion was certainly unchanged, it did not follow that he and those who thought with him should, year after year, renew this kind of conflict, even though they were sure of victory in the end. It was one thing to see what was beet to be done—another to consider what could be done ; and while he would not surrender any . of the gene ral principles affirmed by the house last session, on the other hand, he was desirous of seeing whether, by subdividing the question and trying to do by detail what he had failed to do in the aggregate, he might not, at all events, do something to improve the state of education in Scotland. He should be unworthy the cause if he allowed former disappointments to relax his exertions. It had been said by Sir J. Pakington that education was Row taken out of the category of party questions. He was glad to hear that, because 25 years ago it was never treated otherwise. He thought ho was entitled to appeal to the other side of the house—he did not say to support these bills, or any part of them with which they did not agree in spirit—but he was entitled to ask, if the principle of the measures should be affirmed by the house, that they should not have the contest protracted, day after day, on every clause of the bills, but that they should give to the details a fair and candid consideration. The question di vided itself into two branches, as his notice indicated ; but he should say it divided itself into three. He proposed to deal in these bills, first, with parish schools: becondly, with education in boroughs . ; and beyond that, he meant to indicate a measure of larger Went, to fill up what he thought the manifest deficiency which these two measures would leave. appr•raching the question of parish schools he laid it down as a principle that it was impossible longer to main tain the exclusive character of these schools. (Hear.) That the house hid declared over and over again ; they had divided upon that over and over again, and always with the same result. He was certain the house would agree that it was impossible to deal, under any circumstances, with parish schools, and leave the exclusive test as it was. (Hear.) That was the principle which had raised the chief obstacle ; they must clear the question as to exclusive tests from their path, and the sooner it was brought to an issue the better. It was not a matter on which it was possible to ask the house to change its opinion. The test was a thing indefensible is itself ; and, excepting a few enthu siastic people, who thought more of their own parish dis putes than of the state of the country or the good of the people, it was not maintained or defended, as far as he was aware, by any persons of any opinion or profession. AC cordingly, his bill would abolish—he trusted for ever—that exclusive to-t. When they knew that there were parish schools deserted on this ground, it was impossible longer to ne,intain it. Anxious as hew. ato clear away these obstruc tions, he del not wish to make a greater inroad on the ex isting parish schools than the exigency of the occasion re quired. Last year lie proposed to bring all these schools under one management. He now proposed to let the man agement remain in the minister and presbytery ; but he would abolish the right of the presbytery to try offences. he would retain the right of the pres bls to moralyterytot offences , ryanuish them. The jurisdiction over school maeters whichthe presbytery had hitherto exercised was not oee that added to their dignity or their usefulness. From the decision of the presbytery on moral offences he would give an appeal to the sheriff's depute ; but for serious offences the presbytery would have the right to remove the master at once. As to the examination of schoolmasters, he would abolish the examination by the presbytery where a master was chosen who did not belong to the established Church ; in other cases the examination by the presbytery , would take place. Provision was also made for an inspec tion of the schools by a Government inspector. By clear ing away the exclusive tests in parish schools, they would tend to liberalise the education generally. By the second bill he proposed to give the town councils in burghs the unrestricted power of assessing themselves, for the establishment of schools. When a town council resolved to take this step, it would not be carried out until after the election of a new council—two months' notice being thus given of the proceeding. In parochial schools, the salaries of the schoolmasters would not be paid by Govern ment grants, but by rates on the heritors ; and it was pro posed to increase those salaries. Had the existing system been swept away, and a national one proposed, it would hare been proper for the Government to grant some aid; but there was no such provision in the bill he proposed. He would not stop short at parish and burgh schools. A. representation from Glasgow, signed by men of all sects and parties, had recently been addressed to the noble lord at the head of the Government, stating that the means of education were inadequate, and praying that steps might be taken for their improvement. • If these bills were favourably received by the house, he shoield be pre pared to submit a scheme for the further extension of schools. lie did not propose any further interference with the management, but he would place the schools to be so established under Government inspection. Assuming that there would soon be a minister of education,. these schools would be under his control. Either they must leave the schools without control, or they must have control in Edinburgh or London- He should not propose to have a board in Scotland, but to. _eppeint inspectera who should report to the responsible minister of education as ; m iller state of existing schools, and the necessity for no ones. Six months after the report that the schools were needed in any district, a rate should be ordered for their establishment, general orders should be drawn up for their regulation, and grants would be made by the Privy Council. At present -he confined his motion to the parochial and burgh schools, thinking it better to defer the larger measure till after the discussion of Lord John Russell's resolutions. The learned lord again referred to the impossibility of maintaining the exclusive character of the parish schools. Were that obstacle once got rid of, those who now differed on the subject of education would be able unitedly to address themselves to this great work. Mr. BAXTER bad felt a good deal disappointed by the statement of the learned lord. It showed that the spirit of mutual concession had not yet made much progress. H e was convinced that the existing differences were far more in words than in reality. (Hear, hear.) If the supporters of the Establishment and Dissenters would lose sight of polemical questions, the difficulties, which existed only in the minds of learned doc tors, would speedily vanish. He should like to see gentlemen on both aides unitin g t o give Scotland a good and useful hip. .Although the bill did not come up to his vie ws, ass Dissenter, he was willing to accept of it as a compromiee. He thought that the whole parochial system in Scotland must be changed, but he would not wish to see it changed for a denomination a l one. The present bill proposed to get rid of the religious test—a principle which had been already recognised as to the universities. The bill allowed the parishes to tax themselves; but he confessed—high an opinion as he had of the Scotch people—he doubted whether they were suffi ciently advanced to set the proper value on good school s . He thought th e bill would prove the miserable ineffici enc y of many wh o se t up schools. He hoped the bill would be received in a kind and fair spirit on both sides of the house. Mr. BLACK, having - been for a long time in connection with persons who took the deepest interest in this questi on , thought that he was competent to state what they con sidered were the principles upon which a national system of education should be established. Such a system ought not to be exclusive, but free—not sectarian, but open. The parent was the person r esponsible for the education of hi s child, and es p ec i a lly for the religious laetrile ion which it received ; and although the parish school system of Scot land, as well as the schools themselves, had been greatly eulogised, it must not be forgotten that those who praised them drew their impressions from a distant period; while that system was in its vigour and purity. Those hon. gentlemen forgot that as years had flown by a great change had come over the constitution of those schools, and they were not now in the condition which they were when they elicited the praises of the country. At one time they were in fact almost national, the great body of the people were members of that church the doctrines of which they taught, but the growth of sectarianism -in Bestland bad boon BO !ICING,. APRIL 9. 1858. great that now not ab , ve one-third of the Scottish schools were of this denomination, and consoqueto iy no less than two-thirds of the teachers in the whole of Scotland were qualified for the management of a parish school. The opinion of the country on the question of edu cation bad set of late years in favour of obtaining the best teacher for a school, no matter what might be his religious opinions ; the only test they wished to retain was the test of aility, audit was plain to all that the time had come when the religious test must be abolished. It must also be recollectet, that although a number of new schools had certainly been established , it did not necessarily follow that the amount of education was greater, because it unfortunately happened that, from sectarian asperity, the schools became rival, instea 1 of additional schools, and that, in point of fact, in many c•ises the establishment of a new school in a particular locality had greatly injured the old one, without doing itself any perceptible good ; so that if a general system could be established, and the existing schools could be fairly apportioned over the whole country, not only would the expense of management be lessened, but the amount of education given would, in all probability, be greatly increased. There was no occasion, in his opinion, for teaching sectarianism at schools, for such was the di- versity of tie human mind that different opinions soon sprung up after leaving school, whereas by having a gene ral system friendships would be formed, and a spirit of conciiiation nurtured which would alleviate the bitter- ness of religious animosity and enable the educated man to enjoy his own convictions, while he extended a due mea sure of respect to the differing opinions of his neighbour. He fully admitted that up to the present moment the re ligious, or rather sectarian, elenaent had been the chief obstacle to the formation of a general system, but he be lieved that, if it could be once established, it would greatly , conduce to the results which he had indicated. Being ra fished that no school would exist in Scotland at which liigion would not be taught, he was sorry that his right hon. friend was unable to carry out an educational system upon a more comprehensive scale, but he accepted the measure as a step in the right direction, for he thought if they could get the test abolished it would be worth the struggle they had made to effect the object. Mr. ➢IACKIE said he approved of the bill introduced by his right hon. friend. He entirely disapproved of the present religious test, yet he thought that a schoolmaster should be made to show that he believed in the general truths of Christianity. (Hear.) Sir A. AGNEW approved of the bill, which was looked forward to with great anxiety iu Scotland. He only re vretted it did not go farther, but perhaps 39 it stool, it would contribute more to peace than if it went farther. It was not a question whether the present parish schools did good or whether they were sectairan. He believed they did good and were not sectarian. The question was, had they the confidence of those fur whose benefit they were origi nally intended ? He had no hesitation in saying that they had not. Scotland was now differently circumstanced from what it was when the parish schools were first established, and this bill he thought would place them in the position they once held. He did not believe the bill would prove in the least dangerous to the Established Church, whilst it would have the happiest results by contributing• to peace and harmony. (Hear, hear.) Some gentlemen ob jected to this bill because it was said that the next step would be to attack the Established Church of England. He did not see how it could have any such effect, because the bill exclusively applied to Scotland, and there was nothing in the English system analogous to the Scotch one. He hoped the house would assist the Lord Advocate in giving effect to the bill. (Hear.) Mr. BLACKBURN said he would not discuss the bill, , as it was not yet before the house. He thought the rela tion between the parish schools and the Church should be left as it was, and that some religious test should be re quired of the schoolmaster. Mr. STIRLING thought the right bon, gentleman de served credit for the moderation which he had shown in introducing the present modified bill, and he hoped his moderation would be followed by gentlemen on his side of the house. (Hear.) Were it not for the question of the religious test, he believed there would be no difficulty in the education question as regarded Scotland. The Church of Scotland in the rural districts held its own, and there fore he thought the parochial schools should be left under their care in those districts • but as the Church did not hold its own in the towns, he did not think any preference should bo shown to the Established Church. He thought there was a greater want of reformatory schools for those whom he might call the barbarous tribes of the population, than of schools for extending education to the artisan class. The inspectors of schools, with the exception of Dr. Woodford, admitted that the school machinery in Scotland was not deficient. One-fourth of the persons who entered the schools for the purpose of being trained as teachers fol lowed other occupatns, which showed that there was not so great a want of school machinery as was supposed. (Rear.) If the house looked to the reports of the inspec tors, they would find that the existing system was in a most satisfactory state. Leave was then given to bring in the two bills. LOCAL CHARGES UPON SHIPPING. Mr. LOWE moved to appoint, as the select committee on the Local Charges upon Shipping Bill—Mr. we, Mr. Hardy, Mr. M. Gibson, Mr. Horefall, Mr. Fen wick, Sir S. Norticote, Mr. Cobden, Mr. Watson, Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Headlain, Mr. Cardwell, Sir J. Duckworth, Mr. Duncan, Lord Hotham, and Mr. Moffatt. Mr. V. SCULLY rose to call the attention of the house to the habitual exclusion of Irish members from important committees, thus depriving them of the opportunity of protecting the fecal interests of the country, and com menced, amidst much laughter, by moving the emission of the name of Mr. Lowe. The right hon. gentleman treated the Irish members as a sort of Australian kangaroo, de serving of no attention whatever The right hon. gentle man had visited Ireland, and therefore he knew that Ire land did not occupy an inland position, but that it had an abundance of ports and harbours which would be affected by this bill. Why, he represented a constituency which bad far more harbours and ports than the borough of Kid derminster. This system of neglect towards Ireland was not confined ta the present case. A Cabinet Minister had only that night moved a committee on transportation on which it was only proposed to placione Irish member. Of that, indeed, he did not so much complain, for although Ireland had at one time furnished a large proportion of the persons transported that was not s now; and perhaps the proportion of Irish to English members only fairly re presented that which existed between the persons subject to punishment. (Laughter.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said her Majesty's Government did not for one moment dispute the fact that there were ports and harbours in Ireland, and that they deserved the utmost consideration of Parliament. He could assure the hen gentleman that there was no de. sire to exclude Irish members from the committee. Appli cation had been madeto the Irish members to serve on the committee ; but they had declined. He proposed that the committee should consist of 17 members, instead of 15, and that the two additional membersshould be Irish mem bers. Mr. .DISRAELI regretted that the discussion as to Irish wombats taking part in the proceedings of that house should have been revived. Re hid hoped that these discussions , were dormant, if not nearly dead. He should not oppose the proposition of the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but, he thought seventeen were too many for a committee. A. fewer number would be more efficient. He denied the imputation that Irish members were ex cluded systematically from taking part in the proceedings of that house. He denied, too, that Irishmen were ex clu led from office. Many Prime Ministers of this country had been Irishmen, and when he (Hr. Disraeli) came into Parliament an Irishman occupied that very post of which the hon. and learned gentleman complained, namely, the office of Vice-President of the Board of Trade, which at the time to which he eluded it was filled by Mr. Sheii. Mr. WATSON objected to the committee, as being already tce numerous, and now it was proposed to increase the number. He called upon the Government to recon struct the committee. Mr. F. SCOTT complained that his name had been placed upon the committee after he had intimated that it was not his intention to serve upon it. Mr. JOHN M`GREGOR regretted that the bill which had been introduced had been suddenly thrown up. If he had been at the Board of Trade, as he once was he would --- (laughter, which prevented the honourable gentleman finishing the sentence.) When ho was at the Board of Trade, no bill was ever prepared by that board that did not pass. (Cries of "oh, oh, oh," and laughter.) He did not say that because he was the author of the bills. (Continued laughter.) He had been much pained at hearing the right honourable gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire refer to the appointment of the late Mr. Sheil. He had always had the greatest respect for that lamented gentleman ; he was a most pleasant and sociable person—(laughter)—but he was quite unfit for the office of Vice-President of the Board, and so he had expressed him self to him (Mr. M`Gregor). The committee as at present constituted ought to be abandoned, and a fresh one ap pointedein which all the great seaports should be repre sented. The object which the committee had to inquire into was simply one of confiscation. Mr. HADFIELD wished to know how making Sheffield pay 6,00 W. could be called confiscation. He complained that the great manufacturing districts were not repre sented on te committee. Sir F. BARING objected to the construction of the cotnreittee, as there was a majority upon it of members whose opinions were known and pledged upon the subject, which they had to consider. The decision of such a com mittee, therefore, would not carry any weight hereafter. It would be much better to withdraw the committee and reconstruct it. Lord PALMERSTON said this was not to be a judicial committee, nor was it to decide whether the bill should or should - not be adopted. When the bill was before the house it was said that certain localities h:,d not been colt sidered, and therefore a committee was to be appointed to inquire into the circumstances that were alleged. He thought the committee as proposed was calculated for the object in view. He agreed with the right hon. gentleman the member for Buckinghamshire, that 17 were too many for a committee, but let the house look at the demand which that night had been made for representatives on the committee. As te the commit tee being a partizan committee, he thought that was an advantage. The object of the committee was to inquire into facts, - and therefore it would nut be wise to select persons ignorant of the circumstances into which they had to inquire. The gentlemen who had been named were well acquainted with the subject, and therefore he strongly recommended the house to agree to their appointment- Mr: HORSFALL had hoped the suggestion that had been made would have been accepted by the Government. He was unwilling to move an amendment, and before do ing so again appealed to the noble lord to delay the ap pointment of this committee for a week, to reconstitute the committee, and he moved the adjournment of the de hate for a week for that purpose. Lord PALMERSTON said he thought nothing would be gained by any.adjearnment. This committee was n , t to decide the question, but merely to report for the gui ;mice of the house. The house divided on the amendment for the adjourn ment of the debate. The numbers wero— For the adjournment Against it Majority The retention of Mr. Lowe's name was agreed to. Mr. SCULLY objected to the name of Mr. Hardy on the committee, on the ground of his being a gentleman of no experience, and only been e!ected to a seat in that house within a month. He thought an Trieb member should be named in his stead, or some Irish member added to it. Mr. R. PHILLIMORE defended the nomination of Mr. Hardy, who was as well qualified to pet form his duty as any lash member. The name was then agreed to. The remaining names were also agreed to. ' AUDIT OF PUBLIC ACCOUNTS. . 67 108 ..-41 Mr. BOWYER then called the attention of the house to the constitution of the Board of Audit, and the defects of the law regarding - the awlit of public accounts. For the last two years' the estimates had exceeded any amount since those of 1841. When the last estimates were brought forward, 32 persons were withdrawn from the Audit and transferred to the War department. Although the transfer of the Commissariat department had dimi nished the duties of the Audit department, the number of persons employed in that department was insufficient for the proper performance of its duties. Various improve ments had beet; suggested for the put pose of ren.iertog the board able to dischargt, its duties, but the real defect was a want of power over the business confided to the board. It had no power to compel the production of accounts. The difficulty bad a , isen, not from any defect in the origi nal constitution of the board, but from circumstances of an historical nature. The hon. and learned gentleman was proceeding with his statement when An BON. MEMBER moved that the house be counted. During the delay which intervened before the process could be gone through, several membrs rushed into the house, and it was then found that 4U members were present. Mr. BO WYER resumed his remarks, and expressed a hope that the Government would see the necessity of in stituting an inquiry into the matter, with a view of re medying the defects which now existed. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER Raidthere were two questions to be considere,i—one the state of legis lation affecting the audit board ; the other the administra tion of the system under the existing law. It was a matter for the consideration of the house whether there should be an entire change in the character of the au , iit or not? With respect to the administration of the audit board, so far as his information extended, he was not aware that any arrears of business had arisen, or that there was any reason to suppose that the present board was not efficient for the transaction of the business which devolved upon it. All the naval and military accounts were sent to the audit office for vouchers for every disbursement, and there every account was placed under its proper head. The whole nriss of the naval and military expenditure was subject to that final ordeal. _ Sir F. BARING could not understand the mode of audit of the army accounts He had given notice of a motion which included the subject. He thought all commissariat accounts were originally audited at the Treasury. It was thought at that time that all accounts should be audited at the Audit office. One of the last things he had done while iu office was to appoint a commission to inquire to what extent the army accounts could be audited by the audit board. He thought that that hoard should have the same check on the army ex penditure that it had on that of the navy. Mr. DISRAELI was glad the subject had been introduced, and the notice of the house would be again called to the ques tion. He had risen to show the respect which was duo to the hon. gentleman who had brought the motion forward. The Audit-office, like everything else in the country, had been the creature of time and circumstances. From auditing a few accounts it had arrived at the considerable power of checking 600 of the public accounts. He thought the posi tion of the audit administration was not of that sati factory kind which the country had a right to expect. It should be applied to the whole of the accounts of the country, and in his opinion should be directly responsible to that house. He was sure that the result of that night's discussion would be to lead to a better system in that particular, Lord PALMERSTON said it was a great mistake to sup pose that the auditing of the military accounts as not com plete and effectual for the purpose. It was not conducted by the Audit-office, nor could it be. Hu was speaking then of the great mass of public expenditure for the army service. The audit required was of a peculiar nature. The whole of the money voted for the pay and all ,wauces of the troops was issued through regimental paymasters, who received it perio dically ou au estimate which they sent for the expenditure of the next month or two months. It was issued to them in conformity with regulations, minute and detailed, in order to provide for every variety of circumstances of ser vice iu which officers and men might be placed. But those regulations were issued and made by the War-office. The ob ject of the audit of the paymaster's accounts was, first to as certain that no sum had bee* issued for which the paymaster had not a voucher to show that it has been actually expended, and next -- ; and almost equally important, to ascertain that it had been issued in conformity with the regulatons. The au ditors were not competent judges of those matters, they did not know the regulations. The War-office was the best judge whether the sums issued and vouched for had been actually expended according to the regulations. The business of the great body of able men who composed the War-office was to check those accounts, and to report to the Secretary for War those issues which had been made, either not vouched, or, if vouched, not in conformity with the regulations of the ser vice.. If the issues had been made not vouched, the paymas ters were, of course, liable for the amount. It constantly hap pened that issues were made properly vouched ashaving been made, but issued in a manner not in conformity with the strict regulations of the service. Such cases - were returned to the Scretary at War, who determined whether under all the circumstances, the irregularity might be justified by the occa sion. That was a point which auditors could not determine, it could only be determined by the authority which issued the re gulations. He was well assured that any arrangement to audit the army accounts by the Audit-office would involve great delay and multiplied correspondence. Ho spoke with some knowledge of the matter, having held for many years the office of Secretary at War. There could be no audit more strict and more effectual than that which related to the .pay and allowance of troops. Mr. HENLEY said that although the noble lord had given them full information with respect to the issue of pay,• he had passed lightly over that vast branch of expenditure, the Com missariat and the Ordnance. It appeared to him that that was a branch of,the expenditure which the house had a right to know whether the money had been applied, if not alto gether, in what proportion to the services for which it was voted. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER explained that the Audit-office saw that all expenditure for the commissariat and ordnance was properly vouched for, and that every item was brought under its proper head, in order to correspond to the appropriation act. Mr. HENLEY hoped it was so. He could not see why the regulations mentioned by the noble lord conk'. not be imparted to the Audit-office so as to enable time army expenditure to be audited as the ;mouse seemed to desire. Mr. WILLIAMS agreed in what had fallen from the hon. member for Oxfordshire as to the possibility of having the army accounts laid before the auditors. He was glad to find that the hon. member for Portsmouth (Sir F. Baring) in tended to bring the subject before the house. Mr. BOWYER begged to ask whether a statement would be laid upon the table (in continuation of papers of last session) of the audit of accounts, showing what accounts had been fully audited, and the reason why the delay had taken place. . The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER —Perhaps the hon. member will give notice. The house then passed to the orders of the day. SUPPLY REPORT. Mr. WILSON brought up the report of the committee 01 supply, when the different votes were agreed to without dis cussion. PUBLIC WORKS BILL. This bill was ordered to be read a third time on Monday next. PUBLIC WORKS (IRELAND) BILL. This bill was also ordered to be read a third time ex Mon day 'ext. TRIAL OF OFFENCBS BILL. This bill was, after the introduction of a few amendments by the Attorney-General, agreed to and ordered to be read a third time. _ This being all the business on the notico-paper, the house adjourned at five minutes past 12 o'clock. THE RUMOURED , DOWRY FOR THE PRINCBSS hOYAL. The following letter on this subject has emanated from the Liverpool Reform Association. It is ad dressed pro forma, to J. C. Ewart, E-q„ M.P., and W. Brown, Esq., M P., but may be taken as the remonstrance, generally, of the Financial Re formers against even the supposition of such a sum being voted in these times, as a dowry—to any of the Royal Family : - _ Financial Reform Association, 6, York-buildings, Dale-street, Liverpool, Apri 7, 1856. My Dear Sir—On behalf of the council of the Finan cial Reform Association I beg leave to call your atten tion, and through you, that of the public generally, to the common report that her Majesty's Ministers intend to propose to Parliament that an annuity of 70,0001. per annum shall be settled on the Princess Royal on her marriage with the Prince of Prussia. On the policy of that marriage I offer no opinicn. Perhaps the alliance with the heir to a powerful king dom may be an improvement on the system which has hitherto confined the selection of husbands and wives for the royal progeny of England to the petty princes and princesses of Germany with territories less extensive and less productive than the estate of many an English squire. But the proposed dowry is so preposterously extravagant, that the first mention of it conveys the im pression that, in this as in many other instances common report must be a common deceiver. 70,0cr01. per an num ! It is the interest of a million and a-half of money; it is 20,000/. more than was thought sufficient by an unreformed Parliament, in the days of King Geo. 111., when all the expenses of living were much higher than they are now, for the husband of Princess Charlotte, the heiress to the throne of England. Just .consider the circumstances under which this job is said to be in contemplation. We have spent upwards of a hundred millions on the war now terminated, for the present ; we have borrowed, or shall have to borrow, some tuirty or fifty millions more ; our doubled income tax and imposts on commodities wring from us nearly seventy trillions annually ; there are the strongest mo tives for reducing expenditure to _the lowest limits con sistent with the efficiency of the public Service ; how, then, is it possible that our rulers can meditate such a piece of wasteful extravagance as the alienation of 70,000/. per annum of the public money, for the life of a princess who, in the natural course of events, will be some queen of a foreign kinedom ! Why should the people of England be bound to provide 70,0001. a year for the future Queen of Prussia ? Such- questions must occur to every one ; but the ob jections implied in them will have no force whatever either with Ministers who propose the arrangement, or with Parliament which will be called upon to carry it into effect, unless the country speaks out, through public meetings and its representatives, aul protests energeti tally against so needless and improvident a waste of the public money. As to her Majesty's Ministers, instead of endeavourieg by every practicable means to reduce the iirdinary burdens of the na'ions, whilst imposing extra ordinary ones upon it, they have taken advantage of the popular excitement produr ed by the war, tie make large and unnecessary additions in almost every branch of ex penditure; civil as well as military ; and as to the House of Commons, instead of acting as a check on Ministers, it has encouraged them in their profusion ; it has ailed and abetted them in their extravagance so rashly and blindly, that it has incurred rebuke even in the House of Lords for its reckless disregard of all economy. The personal income of the parents of this young lady, from all sources, cannot fall very nitre! , short of 200,0001. per annum. Whatever"the amount really is, it may be re garded as their pocket money only, for they are furnished in addition with palaces, parks, and gardens for residence and recreation, with horses, carriages, and y ac h ts, for locomotion, with most numerous establiehrneet 4 for their service and with provisions of every kied for their maintenance, and the actual cost of all which gees far beyond the 385.0001., forming the imaginary boundary of Civil List expenses. Why, then, should they not, like all other parents, provide downs for their children ? If they are not to be subjected to the same rules as ordi nary mortals—if this, also, must be done for them at the public expense—let it be done with some little regard to , decency and moderation at all events, some little consi deration for the struggling taxpayers, from whom the funds will be extracted, and many of wh om are h ar dl y enough 'pressed to provide for their own necessities. Joint Bull is, proverbially, the most eeduring, thouch he may likewise be the most grumbling, of all creatures. But there must be bound , ever. to his patience and for bearance. To ascertain how far these extend would - eau to be the preseet object butts of Ministers and of Parlia• went. The experiment is injudicious, and may be dan- g,-. Once thoroughly roused, the people of thil try .v wake short work with all oligarchical abuse.: If any such proposal as that which forms the sulject of this letter should really be submitted to Parliameei it ought to be met with the most strenuous oppositioa by every true representative of the people. If it be, nevertheless, adopted, the day of reckoning will coal* and thos” who sanction it, by speech or vote, will hail t., render a strict account to their Constituents.---I 0 14 my dear sir, yours faithfully, ROBERTSON GLADSTONE, PreSidellt. Ad , lressed to Mr. J. C. E Ann, M.P., and Mr. Wil l ' 8r0w.., Couutry M.a.r.kets, LIVERPOOL—APRZ There was a good attendance of the trade to-day, e t bably induced by the largeness of the week's arrivals. s ° : all good and useful qualities of wheat and flour fully 111 1 :: prices were required and paid, but secondary sorts of bot , i articles were quoted down on the week—nominally 2d Pe g . , bushel on wheat, and is per sack and barrel on flour. - 1 2 1 1 diau corn is 6d to 2s per qr. lower, but it was no Se n d, ra ly pressed by holders at the great loss in price. UP''' oatmeal, barley, beans, and peas unchanged. IPSWICH—APRIL 8. Our wheat supply is by far the best we have seen year, and prices well maintaine.l, 704 and 71s per qr fully given for the best red samples. Barley is dral l towards a close, and commands full rates, best saw! ) fetching lls per qr. Beans and peas bring late prices. PER QUARTER. 1 ?MR QUA% d, Wheat, red (old) 64s to 6 Barley, grinding ... 36s to r ig , Ditto (new) Ditto, white 7os to 72s Peas Ditto (old) Barley, malting 40s to 4.4 F. Flour, per sack —s to ./0 AvEautes Foe. xns Wean ammo APRIL 5, 1856. Wheat Oats 2B „ 25s 10i Peas Barley Beans HULL—APRIL 8. We had a good attendance to-day and a fair s hoic l wheat, which met a moderate Pale at about last W rates. Foreign in good demand, If holders would ma submit to some reduction on late prices. Barley in f',l demand at fall rates, as are also oats of prime quality, 1 , beaus stiffer from the late low rates. Linseed and its P lo ducts exceedingly dull. Rape cakes inquired for. B° l/ t 5s per ton lower. • fi Wheat, English, red 67 to 70 Ditto white 72 to 74 Dautzic and Konigs berg Pomeranian and Ram- Peas, grey and black w ;Linseed, Black Sea 60 r . ( Ditto Petersburgh 58 i u 'Ditto Riga and Arch angel - 1 1 Ditto Konigsberg and t) Memel i Lins. c., Hull 10,1011' c; ~qj 'Ditto fine for. 101 Os 11 1 v;,(0 Ditto inf. for. 01 Os Od to v:. Rapeseed.. 001 Os to O A. O ` O l Rape cakes —s 04 to 13 01 ,1 Taros, English 4ss to 4', Ditto foreign I Guano OOl Os 81 to I S t Bones l3oe Od to 135 ° d I Rye Meal burgh Danish, Holstein, and Friesland - 63 to 68 Russian and Odessa 60 to 641 Oats, English Ditto Danish Ditto Friesland Ditto Russian 26 to 30 Barley, malting Ditto grinding 36 to 38 Beaus Ditto foreign Peas, white and ye]. 3840 t• 40, 44401' (~OIIRSE OF EXCH . msterdam ►2 Ditto, three months 12 2% Etotterdam • ... 12 '2% ,intwerp 25 67 W z f;russels .• .• •• •• •• •••• 25 67% Flaniburgh 13 12 Altorm •• •• •• •• •• • • • Paris • . • • ~ „ 25 45 Ditto, three months .. 25 80 'Marseilles .... • 25 80 liourdeaux • • .....• anlifort-on Maine • ... 12:14 Vienna•• •• •• •• •• •• •• •• 10 rrieste •• •• •••••• •• •• •• 10 28 PetersOurg •• •• •• •• •• •• 36% Madrid •.• •••• •• •• e• ote 49% Cadiz ••• •••• •• •• •..... 50% gareeloria, • • •• •• • • •• •• :ANGEL. YESTERDAY Gibraltar .. .......... I...egtiorn •••••••• ••• 91 Genoa ........ •••••• •• %5 elilan Venice..., •• •••• •• N pal ap e l nn es . 1 4 3 1 • .. Stessina ••• 33 Lisbon as) Oporto •• •••• •• •• •••• Rio Janeiro ..... ..•.... Buenos Ayres New York,6o days' sight Philadelphia ... PRICES OF ROLLION, PER 0 4. Foreign Gold in BUS £3 1 7 Portugal Gold Coin .. 0 Mexican Dollars .... 0 0 New Dollars 0 0 Sliver in bars ..... 0 5 SBABORNB MAILS. ~ ., t iplines mat the Mane are dent morn the General Po- t :fie night—and M by the morning—despatch.) • _ . Day w,t1.,) riL 4, • , Frow w ,;11 - I V V ~. , ,P l., 4 llqtrt, v in Gonorai I'o4t- for - Evers' Edda Li verpool April ducal,'- .. Offices, London.. ma i m*, Ed / :•.merles.(bylirit.pac Is N Ameries. kb; United Sts packet) ..........N —-• • Liverpool •,naorica (by U Staths packet) .. .... ....N • ' •,,, • • • Seutham,..t. , ,, Sustralia (via South ampton) ..........M --*• • Southampton Nitto (via Marseilles ) Ni .., •• • • Dover . 1- )itto (via Cape of (7 , 0 d . Hope) ............N 1 077 01# Africa (West Coast) ..N; 23 d of the month . plymoutt. Vexandria .......... N ' B , (, 2 4, & 30 of n.• Dover .. I A lexan d r i a .. _ _ „, _ m l 4th & 20th of mon. southampt o 3 ahamas ........ _34117th of the mon , . Scut hamptim • . . Itelgium .........:.N Daily.. •••• • • • • • Dover .... DOI! ,I, rirazil ..............m,9th of the month . • Southampto April i• fluenos Ayres .... Mi B th oi . the moot , Southarn ?to, AP7 111 4 ,0 Cape of Goal Hope -. N - Various pot- ,170 e, . . !'ape of flood Hope ~N .are de Verde .... „N .9th •:. 11:c tr,,,tt, Southampton Ceylon (see In,ita) I , :.'ey10n............ .. N 0 i nme i id es , ~ ~ , , ,:,,., j1i0h.,19 ea.,14..1 , tI . • Sou thamp ,3., I T7O II ,:ihill. _ .... , ... mi2cl & 17th of mon, , . Southamo" ! 0 1 , China ... . ( Once a month.... .A.P 3 P ! jonstantinople „. , 86 8,13,18,23,528 of Dove/ ; e; mistantlnople ..... 14th 20th of mon Southamptn.• I ci ps l Cont. of Europe NI t tiiTwie. daily • • Dover .. T 774 Egypt (see India) I ' fflriOl jr irartee ———_M. k. . ,Tw ;cc- den) .. Dove, ..1,...- libraltat ....... _ M. 4,7,17, m. 27 -f , s outhampto , I lreeee (see India) I 4reytown ........ .3 - 1 21, d & 17th of mon Southempton ci ,, m ,, ur e., _ _ .... .N,Tuesday & Frida., London ... 1 . lavannah ~ ...... ,t 1 .2nd of the montl Southarapi•• . 3109 Holland .. ....... ~ hil.'Dalq Honduras ~ __ _ _ mll7t ; tithe month, Southampton ' 167b1i India (vlaSouthampt.)M,4th 20th of mon.lPlym,,uth .. 1 4 & • India (via Marseilles) 51 9th&2lsth of month Dover .... ' lonian Is'es (see India)l7, 17, & 27 of mop D0ver...... 0 00 Ireland .........31 &IC i Twice daily ••.• Hot I head Tlsl if , ' [Ashen ...... . , • Ml 7, 8 . 1 7, & 27 of ~.. Southamptoi.4PTP lsiadetra ......... . 11, 9 t 1 ' of the month Southamptow I ,fadeira ........ . , 23d of month •• . Liverpool ... 'faits (see India; 1 • 20 Sle' Nuns .„........ , 8.18 &28 of mon. 'Dover 4, Yfauritlus (see India , qaurfuus ........ N 14th of the month iirnico .......,....3.1 2nd of the. month. Sonthamptf.n' APS ° Naples .- .. • - ~ .. N ,6thlisth2Mholmor. (Dover ......1 New Granada ... „ , ..21& 17th of mow :Southampte,• 4 0 New Zea1and........ M 13 y private slip .. !Various port ,12G" eapal Statee . . ... 1 5015th2i5thofmon.IDover ...... Peninsula ... , . .. m Ithl7th27thonnon.;Blouthampton ?„, ..... ~ _ . .3i 2d a 27th of tnor.lflouthampton __, ( pr. Port Natal .......... h By private ship...lVarious ports tiny` 4icily ~...........,N sthloth2stito•rnon, Dever .... • • Tuscany .............N sthlstli2sthoimon. Dover .. .. , ,§ o o, Venezuelr ..........14 2d& 17th olmont. , Southatnricsn 1 ki tran Diemen's Land (See kustralia) t e, ~. &10 ° Wes' I nd i„,, .. ,2:.in a n mon; Sonthampren i l I } Whenany of these dates fall en a Sunday, the mall will patched on the following day. with the exception of the In 'outhampton), and the Malta. both of which will be despatch' preceding day. SHARE MARKETS. LIVERPOOL, APRIL 8. STOCK EXCHANGE. The market has been_gulti day, and prices slightly lower. Ch es t er an d . Heir 4 1 18;—South Eastern, 21, Caledonian, 303 Oil North British, 19i—London a n d North-Western, 1 1 0 , —Lancashire and Yorkshire, 88—D u t c h Rh en i s h, 11 ' MANCHESTER, APRIL 5. STOCK EXCHANGE.—There has been a dn ll .A" to day, and prices were steady. Sheffields, 281, 4 11 land, 74 —Le e di, 88—D overs , 2 1— London and N ib'" Westerns were done at 1014—Maneheater and bans u Qrs., c prn. . . BIRMINGHAM, Arm, 5. , STOOK EXCRANGE.—This market was qu id to-dgi i it regards business, a lull having followed the activit7, 4 V has prevailed for some days. Midl an d s closed Midi London and North-Wester n , 102—E as t ern Coun ties,. Shropshire Unions, 47 48—S ou th Stafford., n 3 O. LEEDS. APRIL 5. STOCK EXCHANGE.—Lancashire and Yor.t. e"..e, S fil Great Northern, 74—Pref., 7 pm. CHELTENHAM, Monday.—The inquest on the bol d Mr. Ridler, manager of the Cheltenham and Glouni shire Bank, was resumed and concluded to day. , jury, after hearing the evidence, returned a verd►o the effect that the deceased died from natural caust BIRTHS. Of A BON. On the 6th inst. at Ashley Castle, Warwick the Viscountess a On the 7th inst. ' at G, Glocester-pl ace , Portman-EV l* the wife of John Fuller Maitland; Eeq. OP • DAIIGHTIM. 0 4 On the 7th inst., at the 'Royal Dockyard, Chathao 3, wife of Dr. Peacock, F.R C S. Oh the Bth inst., at 75, M orn i ngton - road, Rage:W/I°l Ails. Edward Ellis. MARRIED. On the sth inst., at St George's,_Hanover-equart i 'Y special licenc e , Ri c h ard C. Naylor, Esq.,. of Hooton P o lk Cheshire, to M ary S oph i a, only daughter of H. 7110_:di Esq., of Cu xwo ld . Li nco l ns hi re, and 35, Glocester-ocl' Hyde-park, London. On the Bth inst., at St. James's Chureh, Piccadil o ss Trevor Barkl e y, E sq ., o f Littl e M e l ton, Norfolk, to ie the eldest daughter of Edward Stanley, E.q., ponsa Hall, Cumberland. DIED. On the 7th inst., at Spencer-street, Northampton-04 11° Mr. Mansell, aged 51. On the 7th iu4., Frances Maria, the wife of itiO4 Ward, 29. Queen-street, Cbeapside, aged 50. 4 OP On the 7th in s t., a t 25, Ossalston-street, Somers- t° Mr William Ryton, aged 75. On the 6th inst., at Davenport, James MoStt, M.D., First Class Surgeon. On the 6th inst., at Peckham, Mr. W. Alexander, of 11.M.'s Ordnance Office, Tower, aged 70. 9 9 ' On the 6th inst., et Caine, Wilts, Mrs. Henly, agete On the sth inst., John Fielding, Esq., of BelgrarY race, Higher Broughton, Manchester. t On the. sth inst., drowned by the upsetting o f a boa the Thames, near Reading, William, the only soli/ son of Sir Edward Borough, Bart. n 1; 16 Printed and 'Publi s h e d b y HURD° , o . Atra.nii, Printer, at Me SUS Office, O. •ii ih.. of the, Savoy, hi the eolla" ttlicldleserr, Wednesday, April 9, 1856. N a Piet H. La :1 and Camil ?rival chargi MUSE and m a Yeni Paw. si The inade- • The 34 'Lectur and a Course Athals: 1 1 Life cies; IE4 ................. Fr PANT, insured Darn by this Perim El S of Travelll Ludgati the len, T n Pond, Chia, M Propriet N ] street, Henry p Life A . t 1 3" * 3 per ei ~~ Gu IT - Poii tote, a Joh] . Geo Johi Job.] ;AM 'LITE liament, the Prof Without' The ni • ' . . 1 1-Parti( at Christ At the teveisior • ' At Chi of 4,240,1 1 4a4 200 .13ustraiit • T‘Catt AadAVes LTnitM S INVA Would en InaY hav LOAN, aided' vac attained' ASSIC and reFrli MEDI 'Lade tor Notice daY mus liikae r •N Comps, avid: • • Losses B R • Ea] SOLIC BANE Pro*, treral ate Prof Clio I 4 pr 4 - 4 „I S 0 40 50 12 Co 3 ii,' rdrd. mon John a Alexan 4,11, :arc Killian Alatit t y Itiver s i Robert Witrati James 114004 14 r0t1( albling roratio ilLtt Prof The 3 111 t D 1 Ytarei ~1 % at 8 , Stalls Per or D Johi Sir Sir ' Tho _ • lor • Wlll Geo F. Geo 31111 ' Jolt Era; T. SI H. 1 STAN Incres that' 1 Rums A g 4 Whe Anstrt ............. , Equ 13 Y - tbc The An) Thl on th, Pranl land Ron; lecole Vlem 16 a r cons( ewe are p error C ffe wadi have of a 1 is nu Unto! evita 'Etna Mel liithi