The Sun. — London, England, 1834-07-30 00:00:00

THUNDER STORM. The storm of thunder and lightning . which passed over this town on Thursday night week, visited, it appears, a considerable portion of the south of Cumberland, and nearly the whole of this county, and the districts adjacent. In Dent a little girl, named Metcalf, was struck blind by the lightning. A little girl was also injured in Longsleddale. The waters near Cartmel were much swollen, trees were blown down, and the roads in some places rendered impassable. The horses in the mail between Lancaster and Burton leaped the • hedge, and pulled the coach after them, but fortunately na accident occurred. It was with the greatest difficulty they could be kept on the road, so vivid was the lightning, and so terrific the succeeding peals of thunder. The London mail, on its way to Carlisle, was overturned about half a mile on this side of Brough, from the horses being struck with lightning, the flash of which was so vivid and powerful, as to drive the horscs right into the ditch at the side of the road. One remarkable circumstance in this case is, that the coachman was thrown cif before the coach upset, and though he received no serious in jury, he had a narrow escape from being killed, the wheels having passed over the brim of his hat ! The guard was also thrown off, and had the tool box cast upon his neck, lying on tho ground; but he, too, escaped any se rious harm. There were three passengers inside, who were not in the least hurt ; but two of them, a lady and a gentle man, were so much frightened that they walked back to Brough, where they remained. The mail reached Carlisle about twenty minutes after its usual time. At Ulvarston, after an exceedingly beautiful day on Thursday, the thunder and lightning which prevailed during the night were unparalleled in the memory of the oldest inhabitant. The rain began to fall in torrents about half-past ten, and continued during the fol lowing day and night. For several hours on Thursday night, the flashes of lightning succeeded each other with such rapi dity that the atmosphere appeared to be one continued, blare, and the thunder scarcely ceased for a moment. The damage done in the hay-fields has been serious, but providentially the mischief appears to be confined to the meadows. All the lakes in the vicinity have been much swollen by the tremendous fall of rain. Windermere, most appropriately designated the Queen of the Lakes, rose nine inches from the floods - and an intelligent correspondent has calculated, that if the length of the lake be taken at ten miles, and the average breadth at 630 yards (both of which estimates are considerably within the mark), that beautiful lake received in that short space of time, in addition to its previous vast body of water, no less a quan tity than 1,762,796 tuns ! We have not heard of much damage being done in the neighbourhood of Keswick ; at Under Skid daw some large trees, over which the storms of ages had howled, and left them previously unscathed, have been torn up by the roots ; and from some of the largest forest trees in the vicinity, some of the finest branches were wrenched by the violence of the storm.—Kendal Mercury. PROPORTION WHICH THE PRICE OF BREAD BEARS TO THE PRICE OF WHEAT. A Quarter of Wheat (imperial measure) of mid dling quality, will, it is estimated, yield of Flour 3921b5. When the price of Bread was fixed by the Lord Mayor, the sack of. Flour, weighing 2801b5., was calculated as sufficient to make 84 Quar tern Loaves, but the bakers admit that it will make 86, or The Flour produced from a Quarter of Wheat being (as above stated) 3921b5., will, at this rate, yield 5231b5. of Bread-nearly, but say 3731b5. 9oz. Or in 41b. loaves . Now the Quarter of Wheat yielding 130 loaves, a rise or fall of ss. sd. per quarter is precisely equivalent to one-halfpenny per loaf, inasmuch as 130 loaves, at one-halfpenny each, amounted to ss. sd. Proportion of the price of Bread which goes to remunerate the Corn Grower : The average price of Wheat is now (21st June, 1834) 47s. 10d. The Bran and Pollard may be worth, say . 130 The value of the Flour will be And assuming, as above, that the Flour produced from a quarter of Wheat will make 130 loaves of 41bs. each. This will give exactly 4d. as the farmer's share, when the price of Wheat is 475. 10d., as at present. Thus 130 loaves, at 4d. each, are Value of Bran and Pollard .. . 435. 4d. Price of a quarter of Wheat 47 101. And as the price of the 41b. Loaf Wheaten is at this time Bd. in London, it appears that the glower receives just half the price which the consumer pays for his Bread ; which half, or 4d., is to be divided between the Landlord, the Farmer, and the Labourer, and for Rates, Taxes, &c. The Landlord, say 1-4th The Farmer's living and profit, 1-4th The Labourer, 1-4th Poor and County Rates, Taxes, &c., 1-4th id. ld. ld. ld. The remaining 4d. per loaf must, therefore, go to the Mil ler, the Mealman, and the Baker. If Foreign Corn were admitted duty free, or nearly so, the price of Wheat must fall, at least, 1 Is. per quarter ; and this reduction of price (which would ruin the agriculture of the country) would, and could only, according to the foregoing calculation, cause a corresponding reduction of id. in the price of the 41b. loaf. Now, if we assume that a manufacturing labourer be paid at the rate of two loaves per diem, his wages would be reduced ls. per week ; and would this small reduc tion enable the British manufacturer successfully to compete with the comparatively untaxed labour of other countries? or even if it did so, would it compensate him for the almost en tire loss of the home market, consequent on the ruin of the agriculturist ? THE INVERNESS GREAT SHEEP AND WOOL MARKET. The number of English and Scotch staplers, as well as sheep-rearers and wool-growers, present at this annual fair on Thursday and Friday, was greater than at any - former market. The clip, though considered lighter this season than last, was admitted to be of superior quality. The sheep and lambs were in good condition, but the crop of the latter was not so goof as last year. The sellers on Thursd a y as k e d 28 s . to 30s. for the double stone of coarse wool, and from 245. to 255. for the single stone of Cheviot ; for Cheviot and Cross lambs, from I ls. to 12s. Gd. were asked; but no sales what ever were effected until late on Friday evening. Lambs, in general, were considered about 6d. a head higher than last year • there was merely a perceptibl e d ecrease i n t h e pr i ce o f wedders; ewes, however, bring better prices than last year. One lot of Cross wedders sold at Is. 6d. below last year's prices, while some lots of Cheviots brought from 2s. to 2s. 6d. more than was obtained last season. Cheviot ewes were from ls. 6d. to 2s. higher than last year. A few superior lots of black-faced ewes brought upwards of 13s. A very superior lot of Cheviot tups, from Dumfries-shire, sold at about 0 /. 12s. 6d. Mr. Fraser, Inchberry, sold his Cross wedder lambs at lls. ; and Mr. Morrison, Sealliscig, obtained 11s. 3d., which, we believe, was the highest price at the market. Che viot ewes brought from Iss.- to 225. ; bat it is said that a few superior lots fetched 21s. We learn that a clip of black-faced wool sold at 275. per double stone. The following is a note of the comparative prices of the past and present year, so far as the latter has yet been ascertained:— SHEEP. 1E133 . 1834. s. d. s. d. s. d. • s. d. Cheviot. Wedders Cheviot Ewes ao— 0 0 15 0— 22 0 Ditto Wedder Lambs - 11 6 96—12 0 lilack-faud Wedders l6 0— 23 0 16 0_ 22 0 Ditto Ewes OO 00 90— 13 0 _ _ _ Ditto Hogs Ditto Lambs 7 6 - 12 6 100.126 60 -, 96 G - 11 6 WOOL. Smeared Cheviot Wool, per single stone of 241 b l9o— 206 22 0 23 0 266 Black- faced Wool, per double stone 20 0 21 0 25 0 Cross Wool, smeared and washed, p. s. of 241 h atto unwashed ditto l3 0 14 0 15 b 16 0 Grease butter is expected to be delivered in the north, free of expense, at from 355. to 365. per cwt., and Ames ican tar, at from 15s. to 16s. or 16s. 6d. ; indeed, some of the sellers of. the latter think they can obtain a higher price. SATURDAY.—Much more business was done to-day than on any of the two preceding days of the fair. The Corrybreck black-faced wedders, which last year brought 205., were dis posed of to-day at 225.; and the ewes from the same place, which brought I Is. last year, sold this season at 13s. ; yet in general wedders, as we have mentioned, brought lower prices, while ewe,fetched higher than last year:, A principal wool grower in 'Sutherland sold his Cheviot- unwashed clip at 235. 6d. ; black-faced clips did not to-dayb ring above 265., although the rearers expected higher sums, and several infe rior clips were sold under that amount. A good lot of black faced wedders from Badenoch was purchased by a south coun try dealer at .. 0 1s., and a lot of black-faced ewes, belonging to the same stock, fetched 12s. The average price of American tar rose to-day to 18s. per cwt.—lnverness Courier. EXTRAORDINARY NATURAL CURIOSITY.—AS Thomas Winter, of Soulby, near Kirkby Stephen, was on the Bth inst. building a stable for the Rev. John Collinson, he had occasion to break a blue whin stone, and in the centre he dis covered a small cavity in which was a living spider and several young ones . It has been examined by several ladies and gen tlemen of the neighbourhood, who have all signed a declaration expressing their belief in Thomas Winter's statement. The stone and spider are now i n th e possession of the Rev. J. eo llinson, who, we understand, has taken them with him to his house at Kibblesworth, in the county of Durham.—Kendal Mercury. ATTEMPT TO ASSASSINATE A PROTESTANT CLERGYMAN.—Last night, as the Rev. Mr. Williams, rector of Killican, in the county of Meath, was returning from the house of a neighbouring gentleman to his own residence, he was maliciously fired at from behind a hedge, and, we regret to say, severely, although not dangerously wounded. He was brought into Virginia, and what makes this a case of the great est atrocity is, that the unfortunate object of this cowardly as sassination, who is an exemplary clergyman and an active ma gistrate, was accompanied on a car, when the attempt on his life was made by Mrs. Williams, and another female. This is the first fruits of the Assassinating Commissien.—Newry Telegraph. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. ROUSE OF LORDS, July 29. The division upon the Bastardy clause, as given in the Morning Papers (from which we copied), was by some acci dentvery wrongly stated. It should have been for the Bishop of Exeter's amendment— Contents .. l4 Non-contents 38 Majority in favour• of the original clause —24 The Loan CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at a quarter-past five o'clock. A message from the Commons, by Lord EBRINGTON and others, brought up the Weights and Measures Bill, the Chancery Offices (Ireland) Bill, the Universities Admission Bill (by G. W. Wood), and the Durham and Sunderland Railway Bill. On the motion of the Earl of RADNOR, the Bill for the admission of Dissenters to the Universities was read a first time and was ordered to be printed and read a second time on Friday. FOREIGN AFFAIRS. The 'Marquis of LONDONDERRY said, seeing the Noble Viscount (Melbourne) in his place, he wished to ask whe ther the Government had received any intelligence relative to Don Carlos since he landed in Spain? Viscount MELBOURNE said there was no doubt but Government had received some intelligence upon the subject, but it was of so very uncertain a character that it could not be relied upon. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY then gave notice that on Monday he would submit a motion to the House rela tive to the state of our Foreign relations, and more especially relative to the Quadruple Treaty between England, France, Spain, and Portugal. Petitions for protection to the Church and against the admis sion of Dissenters to the Universities were presented by the Duke of Gloucester, the Bishops of Gloucester and Exeter, the Earl of Melville, and Lord Wynford. The Bribery Bill went through a Committee. Report on Thursday. The Foreign Post Bill also went through a Committee. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE presented a petition from the inhabitants of Calcutta, praying that the rights of aliens might be established who held estates in that part of India. SUPPRESSION OF DISTURBANCES (IRELAND) BILL. Lord MELBOURNE rose for the purpose of moving the third reading of the Bill. The general grounds on which the Bill rested, the provisions which it contained, the parts of the country to which it had been extended, and the effect it had produced in those parts of the country that had been subjected to its operations had been so recently clearly and distinctly detailed to their Lordships that it would not be ne cessary for him again to go over the same grounds. He should therefore content himself 'with a very few observations. It had been a great wonder and a great misfortune, and a calamity which, as it proceeded from the nature of a free Government under which they lived, it was in, vain to deplore, that its affairs had never received that calm, fair, impartial, and deliberate discussion and consideration which their great importance demanded.—( Hear, hear.) They had always been made the grounds on which existing admini strations were attacked, and upon which those who had been in opposition to those administrations had grounded that oppc sition.—( Hear.) This wa's a great misfortune, because whether they considered the great importance of that country, or whe ther they considered the very peculiar situation in which it was placed, there was no question which required more to be consi dered with calmness and deliberation than the affairs of Ireland. It had been said in discussions upon this Bill, when compari sons had been drawn between the disturbances which had taken place at various times in this country, and those which had 'for many years past disturbed and disgraced the country and po pulation of Ireland, that they had never taken, with respect to this country, measures of similar severity to that which was now proposed to be adopted. He would say there was no analogy between the circumstances of the two countries. They were totally and entirely different. It was also stated that England and Englishmen would never endure the introduction of such measures as those which were pro posed with respect to Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He knew not what England and Englishmen might endure, if subjected to similar circumstances, but he trusted a similar case would never arise in this country. He trusted that the case would never arise, which would call upon a British Ministry,—or a British Parliament,—either to consider or propose a question for England similar to that which was now proposed for Ireland.—( Hear, hear.) He would tell their Lordships that England would not endure for a month or a fortnight that state of things which made the present measure necessary.—( Hear, hear.) England would not endure the injury by night, the violence by day, or that perpetual disturbance and excitement that were kept up in Ireland—( Hear)—which had rendered the present mea sure absolutely necessary. He trusted their Lordships would consider the difference between the nature and extent of crime in Ireland and this country. He had before him returns with respect to crime in those countries in 1833. According to those statements, the crimes committed in England in that year were 20,072, upwards of 15,000 of them being petty larceny, -t—e,--easseetly_a n d without violence. The whole number of offences committed without violence was 17,131 leaving for those which had more or less of violence connected with the commission of them. the number of 2,941. This statement, undoubtedly, considering the great population of the country, though larger in amount than could be wished, was not one to fill the mind with any extraordinary degree of horror and alarm. The case was very different with respect to Ireland : the out rages there during that period were no less than 9,943, while the robberies were between 1,800 and 1,900. The number of outrages contained within it cases of riot, of rescue, of attacks upon houses, of illegal meetings, of appearing in arms, of burn ing and levelling dwellings, of maiming or destroying cattle. He asked their Lordships whether, pointing out this difference between the two countries was not sufficient to show that there was a necessity for a measure of this kind, in one of the two countries, while to the other it would be wholly inapplicable. He was sorry, however, to say, that the mere list of offences thus furnished would give but an inadequate account of the state of the country—but an inadequate idea of its condition could be formed from the details of murders and of horrors at which the blood ran cold. Those who had the task of reading the accounts of the smaller offences, would sec in them a per vading character which was most fatal to the peace of society. Disturbances, as was well known to many of their Lordships, took place in Ireland that was fatal to the peace of the country. A man could do barely any act without subjecting himself to in sult and outrage; he could not take a servant, or make a sale of property, or pursue any ordinary duties, without subjecting him self to the most violent outrages. If in consequence of those outrages they resorted to the law, the probability was that they were pronouncing sentence of death upon themselves, in all probability they would be murdered, and that perhaps in mid day.---( Cries of " Hear, hear.") Under such circumstances it was necessary that the Government of Ireland should be entrusted with those powers which were given it by the present Bill.--( Hear.) He thought, however, that their Lordships would be of opinion that it was more his duty to detail to their Lordships that part of the Bill, which omitted some part of the former law—( Hear, hear) —than to enter into a statement of the other part of the Bill. He had already stated that his opinion was in favour of those clauses.—( Hear, hear, hear.) He thought the three first clauses ought to be retained—( Hear, hear)—those clauses which gave power to the Lor,l Lieutenant to disperse meetings, the court-marshal clause and so on. The grounds upon which he came to these opinions were these. The Constitution of this country consisted of the prerogative of the Crown, the privileges of the Parliament, and the rights and liberties of the people. It was in the harmony, agreement, and con sent of these various principles, and in keeping each of them within bounds, that the frame of the Government was formed, and the advantage of the country in general was secured. When either of these powers exceeded their due bounds, and abuses were committed, it became absolutely necessary to place limits to the force of that pal tof the Constitution. It was the experience of our history that such was the case, and many such limitations had taken place in consequence of the abuses thus created. In his opinion the right cf petitioning had been abused and perverted in Ireland, where it was used for the purPose of overthrowing the Constitution of the coun try. He knew that it might be said that it had been abused in England ; that it had been sometimes carried to too great an extent here, he was willing to admit. Violent language had been sometimes used at public meetings here, and menacing conduct had even occasionally been exhibited. But here these things were transient—they were the spontaneous ebullitions of the moment—they soon passed away, and all again relapsed into peace. In Ireland, on the contrary, they were of certain regular recurrence, as regular as the monsoons and the rains of a tropical climate ; and they bore the impres sion of being actuated by one mind, set on foot by one impulse —they were guided by one power and one spirit.— ( Hear. ) On these grounds he had been prepared to submit t that these clauses were called for by the necessity of the case, and that they ought to have been adopted by Parliament. At the same time he must say that their importance ought not to be overrated, nor be imagined to possess a power or an efficiency which did not in fact belong to them. They were effectual for one pur pose ; but in the first place they never had been used to pre vent public meeti ng s for the fair discussion of great public topics ; and in the second place other means had been found to check the abuses of speech at these meetings. These clauses could not prevent a body of men from acting in a set tled manner, and with a definite purpose, as the Roman Ca tholic Association had done ; and attempts had been made since, though not with the same success, to establish a society like that association. He was aware of the effect which speeches produced upon a body of persons assembled together for the discussion of political matters in Ireland. He knew that the language of a letter which had been before quoted described speeches and agitation as cause and effect. He might admit that representation to be true, and yet deny that they were the primary cause of the outrages. He knew not exactly what that cause was. Whether it arose from a sup posed adherence to ancient rights, whether the people believed that they really did suffer under unparalleled oppression and misgovernment, and that this produced that character of vio lence among them, he did not know ; but he knew that a spirit of violence did exist, ever ready to burst forth into action. There were persons too who were ever ready to unite against the well-being of the community, and lie believed that what ever might be the future fate of Ireland, whatever might here after happeato it, that spirit of combination would oppose the mo st serious obstacles and strong im p ediments to its g row ing wealth and prosper it y .— ( Hear, hear, hear.) That these speeches, mighthoweverclamtohraotums,ananydowfhtahteemverwteorpeiemsotshteuyns - urge (and he admitted fiable), that they did very great mischief, and that they were totally unwarranted by the facts, he could not over by a foreignnotpossiblydeny. They represented Ireland as domineered party (a topic the most irritating that could be addressed to any people), that the whole country was suffering from the misconduct of the whole body of landlords, and that nothing remained for the people' but utter ruin, abasement, and degra dation. He knew how false these topics were; he could not deny that such topics so addressed and so received, must pro duce considerable effect • but that they were the primary • cause of the outrage he had described, he must say lie did not believe. Their Lordships would recollect, too, that the inser tion of these clauses had not prevented speeches of this .dange rous nature, from being addressed to the Irish people. There fore, although lie was ready to admit, that it would be better that the Government should be armed with the power which these clauses gave them, yet if it was said that such powers u ere absolutely necessary for the safety and peace of Ireland, and that that safety could not be preserved without, he could not believe the fact to be so. He was therefore ready, without these powers, to be responsible for the peace of Ireland. It had been found necessary to omit theSe three clauses which had formed a part of the Bill of last year. ,Their Lordships were aware of the reasons which had been urged for this omission, and none could refuse to acknowledge that if they could be dispensed with, the omission was de manded by justice. He was aware that Ministers had been much censured for agreeing to give up those parts of last year's Bill, and it had been said that they had better have resig,ned than have abandoned them. In this opinion he did not concur. He thought it was the duty of the Government to adhere to his Majesty, and he concurred in the sentiment expressed by a No ble Lord, that if ever bound not to desert the Monarch, the ob ligation was at that time more imperative than at any other period. For himself he did not say, that in accepting (ace he had made any sacrifices, for perhaps he would not gain any credit for such an assertion. Neither would he pretcnd any indisposition on his part to the acceptance of office, or affect to be insensible to the excitement it created, and the distinction which it conferred, but when acknowledging that, he felt that he would be permitted to say that he had also a full and perfect sense of the responsibility which it involved. Still, fully as he was impressed both with the distinction and the responsibility, he would adhere to the service of his Sovereign as long as that service was deemed useful, and when he found it could be dis pensed with, he would resign the trust as willingly as he had accepted it.--( Hear, hear.) He was not aware that be had anything more to add. If the Noble Duke was of opinion that the safety of the empire rendered necessary the retention - of the clauses proposed to be abandoned in the Bill before them, he hoped he was prepared to ju.stify that opinion by reasons; but if the Noble Duke had any doubt upon the subject, he also hoped (as we understood the Noble Viscount) that Govern ment would receive the benefit of that doubt. The LORD CHANCELLOR, before putting the ques tion, said, that as the amendment proposed by the Noble Duke was a substantive measure, it should come before the House as a distinct motion. The Bill should be now proposed for the third reading, and the Noble Duke could afterwards make his motion on the question, that the Bill be now read a third time. The Earl of RIPON rose, but as he addressed their Lord ships from one of the cross-benches, with his back turned com pletely to the gallery, he was frequently inaudible in the course of his address. What he wished to say to their Lordships would come better in, and be more applicable, at this stage of the proceeding, than if he reserved it for the amendment intended to be proposed by the Noble Duke. It was with great reluctance that he felt himself called upon to address their Lordships' on this occasion, because he found himself com pelled to accede to a measure, at the same time that he held in the utmost abhorrence the principle upon which it was founded.—( Hear, hear.) None amongst their Lordships were less disposed than he to trench upon liberty, or bind down the people with unnecessary restrictions. He concurred with his Noble Friend who presided over his Majesty's GoverA ment, in acknowledging that nothing but extreme necessity would sanction the measure.—( Hear, hear.) In acqui escing in the proposition before their Lordshius, he was reluctantly obliged to confess that he felt very much pained at some circumstances connected with it. When his Noble Friend who was lately at the head of the Go vernment had on a recent occasion called upon their Lord ships to pass this bill, he had stated in a full, clear, convincing, and satisfactory manner, the reasons by which he was com pelled to resort to the necessity of adopting this measure, and there was no part of the bill on the necessity of which he more forcibly dwelt than on the clauses now proposed to be omitted by the measure at present before their Lordships._( Cheers from the opposition.) Under these circumstances, he thought it imperative on their Lordships to consider why it was that-- he would not say the same Government, but--a great portion of the same Government—( Cheers)—now called upon that House to consent to so material a change as to omit those clauses then deemed so indispensable. The only reason now given for this change was, that they were compelled to make it. There were many persons in the present Government for whom he entertained the most unfeigned esteem and respect, and he hoped that, whilst he had acted with them he had de meaned himself as a man of honour, and one not unworthy of their friendship ; but however high might be the estimation in which he held them, he thought more satisfactory reasons should be assi g ned for this change than those which had been given. The Noble Lord who had lately been at the head of his Majesty's Government had told them that the clauses now proposed to be omitted were of indispensable necessity, and that without these sae easeesnre that not be pinae“,,--Th e Noble Earl did not on that occasion say a single word which could lead their Lordships to suppose that there was any difference in the Government upon this point. There could not at that time have been any such diffe rence ; for if there had, the Noble Earl would not have been justified in not having at that time stated it to their Lordships. The opinion which the Noble Earl did state he stated as that of the Government, and he confirmed this opi nion by no less authority than that of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland. Of that Nobleman he (Lord Ripon) could not speak in terms sufficiently expressive of his regard. Dispatches written by him were read to the House for the purpose of showing how necessary it was that these clauses should be re tained ; and how did it now happen that a Noble Lord came down to that House with a proposition for doing them away ? That part of the Bill which effected agitation' was proposed to be omitted, notwithstanding the strong testimony borne by the dispatches transmitted from the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, and in which, with a most philosophic spirit of inquiry, after a close analysis of all the circum s t ances , an d i n a mo de of rea soning close, conclusive, and c onv i nc i ng , t h e conn ection of predial outrage with political a g it a ti on was c l ear ly deduced. ( Cheers.) As he said before, if the Government was of opinion that it could go on without the power which these clauses conferred, he would be satisfied—leaving to them all the responsibility—to take the bill in the shape in which they brought it before their Lordships ; but it was very hard (as we understood the Noble Lord), without knowing what induced tile Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to write the letter out of which the difference of opinion in the Cabinet arose. Under these circumstances, he thought it hard upon their Lords ships to be called npon to consent to the change. ' This difference, it appeared, had ar i sen b ecause o f a communi cation which had taken plac e w i t h out t h e sanct i on of one who, above all others, should h ave b een consu l te d. And with whom had this unauthorised communication taken place? He would not name individuals ; but the commu nication had been had with one who was ever found resisting the measures of the Government, and upon whom no reliance could be placed by the Government, and from whom every proceeding that disturbed the tranquillity of Ireland flowed— ( Cheers)—one whose hostility adopted every form of vitupe ration and abuse and who had exhausted the whole vocabulary of late in his attacks on the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland.— ( Cheers.) No Government could by possibility stand, which proceeded in such a manner as this ; and he would venture to predict, that if the present Government proceeded on such a system, it could not exist. But knowing as he did, the spirit, the resolution, and the judgment of the Noble Lord now at the head of the Government, he had some hope that such practices would not be proceeded in. Their Lordships should remember that when, on a former occasion this bill, including the clauses now proposed to be thrown cut, was brought before them for a second reading, these clauses were roost elaborately defended.—( Cheers.) The communication which had been called- an " indiscretion," but which, in other words, was a great blunder, took place, and the change was the consequence. —( Cheers and laughter.) In a day or two after the circum stances became known, it was stated that the Right Hon. Gentleman had resolved to resign ; but it eventually turned out that at the request of the Government he consent& to retain office. (The Noble Lord here entered into a history of the other changes in the Administration ; but for the reason already assigned, we were unable to follow him.) By the efforts of his Noble Friend, now First Lord of the Treasury, things were in some measure restored. That Noble Lord accepted office • -at his magic tou c h most of the sevc!ed Members of the divided Cabinet again tithed, and affairs remained as they now are.—( Hear, and laughter.) But still it was not a thorough reunion. He who was the life and soul of the former Ministry was not now amongst them. This description of him he (Lord Ripon) felt satisfied no one would gainsay. None would deny his exalted qualifications for the office which he held, or how eminently fitted he was to con tend with the difficulties which he had to surmount ; nor would even those who disapproved of his measures, hesitate to admit that a life spent in the furtherance of reform principles fur nished ample reason why he should have been the last person to remove from the Ministry.—( Cheers.) Under the circum stances, the Noble Lord was justified in retiring, but it ap peared to him (Lord Ripon) that the Noble Earl had fallen a sacrifice.—( Hear, hear.) If, instead of the change which had taken place, the Noble Earl had carried on the business of the Government to the close of the session, he might then have retired from office under circumstances calculated to give not the slightest pain either to himself or his suc cessor. These observations were connected with the Bill, for chanthgee shape had in not wh ta ic k h en it plac e, hadbeen introdu ce d the Bill would have passed The Lord Lieutenant of Ireland was placed, by these rifthe in pro ceedings, in a situation which, for difficulty, could not be sur passed, for, from the documents before their Lordships, it was to be assumed, as his deliberate opinion, that the clauses were necessary. The clauses were to be omitted, and who was the cause that those portions of the Bill, which had been pro nounced so necessary, did not pass ? Who but he, who was himself the embodied personification of the spirit of agitation —he would not stop here— " Tamen ultra pergere tendit. Actum, inquit, nihil est, nisi PEeno milite.portas Fran imus et media vexillum pono Suburra" —( Cheers.) To meet him those changes had been made— he thundered at the gates--they lay prostrate at his feet, and lie now reared his ill-omened standard over the citadel. It was to meet the views of this individual that the Noble Lord at the head of' the Irish Government was placed in this posi tion. After this view of the transactions which then took place, it was to be hoped that the Noble Lord now at the head of the Ministry would be allowed to exercise his own judgment, and act on his own discretion. As circumstances THE • SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY, JULY 30, 1834. stood, and as Government appeared to think these clauses un necessary, he was bound to acquiesce in their opinion. No one would be rnore gratified than he if it were found that Ireland could be kept tranquil without them ; but if stronger measures were found necessary, he hoped the Noble Viscount would not hesitate to apply, them. If they were not applied, the Noble Viscount himself would be the next victim, and tilie last would be the Constitution of this country.--( Cheers.) The Duke of WELLINGTON said that, under the cir cumstances, he would postpone the motion of which he had given notice until after the third reading. The Noble Viscount (Melbourne) had said that he did not deem the clauses proposed to be omitted necessary to preserve the peace of Ireland, though in another part of his speech he said he would and that he had voted for them, and that he was desirous of having them passed, Both the Noble Earl who was formerly at the head of the Government, and the Noble Viscount who had moved the third reading, had pro nounced these clausea.absolutely necessary. Lord MELBOURNE was not aware that he had said they were necessary. The Duke of WELLINGTON—The Noble Earl had stated, that in his measure he proposed nothing that was not absolutely necessary, and in support of this opinion there was evidence of the necessity still stronger than that of the Noble Earl or the Noble Viscount, furnished by the authority of two Acts of Parliament, one of which was passed in the year 1823, and the other in the last year. In the preamble to both Acts it was stated, that the agitation which was excited in Ireland was dangerous to the public liberty, inconsistent with the' public peace, and opposed to the existence of all regular go vernment in Ireland.—( Cheers.) Not only had they the authority of these two Acts of Parliament in support of these clauses, but there was also the authority of the Lord Lieu tenant of Ireland. See what was his opinion on the subject. He stated in his communication which he had made to Government, that having applied every means in his power to trace the disturbances to their causes, he was obliged in every instance to refer them to political agitation. Similar testimony was given by the magistrates in thir correspondence with Government.—( Hear, hear.) The Noble Earl opposite, and the Noble Lord upon the woolsack, descanted largely on the necessity of retaining these clauses in justice to the poor, who, by their omission, would be unequally treated.--( Cheers. ) The Noble Lord on the woolsack had said, that he would not press upon the poor with his loins and refuse to touch with his finger the city disturbers ; that it would not be just to re-enact those clauses which pressed upon the poor, by shutting them up after sun-set, and omit those which affected the city agita tors. After this, could the Noble Lord come down to that House and propose the omission of the very clauses which he before advocated. What was there in the state of Ireland to warrant such omission ? Could any country upon earth be pointed out where life and property were so inse cure ? Was there in the wilds of America—was there in any part of Asia or Africa any country in a similar state ? Talk of liberty, indeed ! He should first seek security for life and property, and then make provision for the freedom of discussion. Security for life and property was the first prin ciple of society ; without it there was no foundation for the right of discussion or petition, nor could these last be laid claim to until the former were possessed. This security had not existed in ,Ireland for the last three years. The Noble and Learned Lord had frequently told them that allegiance and protection were reciprocal. Why not then grant to the Crown the power of exercising this duty of protection, by which it laid claim to allegiance? or was the King to lose the allegiance of his subjects for want of that power? The Act of last year had proved effective in its application, and this furnished a reason why the clauses should be preserved. The Noble Lord said that the portion of the Bill included in the three clauses about to be omitted was not necessary ; the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland had asserted that they were necessary. ( Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord said they were not effective. What was the fact ? Had they not proved effective to put down associations and adjournment of associations ? Was not the Act of 1829 found effectual for this purpose? It would be utterly useless to attempt to prevent meetings in large cities without adopting those clauses. As far as regarded Dublin, they were peculiarly called for. It had been stated as a reason for abandoning the former bill, that though it might pass through that House, it would not be passed in another place. In this opinion he could not agree, as he was satisfied that no Government possessed the confidence of that other House in a greater degree than did the late Administration, and he was equally satisfied that, notwithstanding the late resignations, the present Government possessed at this moment the same confidence there—( Cheers)--as when it was assisted by the talent and character of the Noble Earl on the opposite side. It was obvious that the clauses had been given up, because of the influence of the individual who had been already alluded to in the course of the debate. If, indeed, they had felt that the Bill was such as they could not have carried through the other House, they would have had a right to give it up. The Ministry, he admitted, were bound to serve his Majesty as long as he was pleased to require their service, and in so doing it was their duty, if necessary, to give up every measure, the abar4nment of which did not hasard the peace, the security, andotie best interests of the country. It had been said that his Noble Relative, the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, had changed his mind as regarded the necessity of adhering to these three clauses. Of this he (the Duke of Wellington) had seen no evidence. The Noble Earl who had lately been at the head of his Majesty's Government spoke in fa7our of the clauses in July, whilst the letter in which the Lord Lieu tenant was stated to have changed his mind with regard to them was dated as far back as the 18th June. The Noble Duke concluded by stating, that though he would not press to a division the motion bf which he had given notice, he would still bring it forward, for the purpose of placing it on the Journals of the House. Lord GLENG ALL was of opinion that the cause of the disturbances which existed in Ireland, was to be found in the want of confidence in the Government on the part of the ma gistracy, the clergy, and the upper classes, and a similar want of confidence as regarded them on the part of the Go vernment. This was not the time to yield to clamour. He was of opinion that the day of concession had passed by ; that it now became the Government to turn their back to the wall, and say to the agitators, thus far you have proceeded, but you shall not pass further. By mutilating the Bill now before them, they would only succeed in throwing the Government of the country into the hands of the agitators. The first con sequence of this mutilation would be, that between the pre sent time and November next meetings would be held through all parts of the country, , and every exciting topic would be again applied to stir the passions of the people. As a further proof of this existing state of things in Ireland, the Noble Lord stated that a list of names of the old proprietors of estates in that country forfeited in the time of Cromwell, and after the battle of the Boyne, was handed about, and an opi nion that it was probable that the estates would be recovered was not uncommon. The Earl of HAREWO OD declared his opinion that nei ther England nor Ireland would be safe as long as the present system was pursued. What must the country think of public men when they reflected that those scenes which they were reminded of up to this very moment remained unexplained? The hinge on which the whole of the affair to which he alluded turned was the private and secret correspondence of some in dividual with the Lord-Lieutenant of -Ireland, designed to extract from him that which had produced the present state of things.—( Hear.) He knew nothing of what that letter was ; but though it might not be convenient to produce a private letter (as it was called),• still other means might surely have been found, if the transaction were an honest one—( Hear, hear)—of affording the public an opportunity of forming an opinion respecting it. In the absence of such information they must come to judgment on the circumstances as they found them. It was not long since that the Noble Earl ( Earl Grey) retired from the Government with some others. The cause of their retiring appeared to be their adoption of a measure which certainly appeared much to dissatisfy the great agitator of Ireland. The next thing that occurred, their Lordships having been called on at the recommendation of the Noble Earl to give an opinion on the former measure, and the necessity of enforcing it, was, that at the instigation and dictation of the great agitator they were called on to alter the measure. How did that matter stand ? An individual made a communication as to the views or intentions of his Majesty's Government. It was stated that this was a great indiscretion. Now, if he understood what indiscretion meant, it was this, that an individual had hastily and thoughtlessly made some communication which he had better not have made. But when he found that the in discretion in question had been consulted on, and was approved by others—( Cheers)—when he found that the communication was sanctioned by some of the Right Hon. Gentleman's col leagues, he must say that he could consider such an act an act of indiscretion no longer ; on the contrary, he thought they were suspicious circumstances in evidence of a strong desire to keep back from the knowledge of the Prime Minister what was proceeding. Not only the people of England and Ireland, but the people of Europe were looking to the course pursued by the Go vernment of this country : and he must say that it was lower ing this country in the estimation of Europe, that it was lowering the Government in the eyes of the people of this country, far such conduct to be witnessed. He could make out to his own satisfaction, if not to that of their Lordships, that few occasions had occurred which appeared to furnish so strong proof of concessions having been made by the Govern ment to a person who had been by that Government designated in the King's speech, not by name, but still designated and denounced. Here was an individual who obliged them to keep up a strong standing Army in Ireland at a great expense, yet they found the Government secretly negociating with him.— ( Hear, hear.) Having pointed attention to two circumstances as evidence of concessions—one the communication, the other the alteration of the measure ; he must say, that he was ap prehensive that they might lead to a further concession. Were they to go on satisfying the agitation of Ireland in this man ner ? He should like to know if that individual had not openly declared that nothing would satisfy him but the repeal of the union? His Majesty's Ministers had said, that they would stand by the union even to the shedding of blood. After the experience their Lordships had had, he would willingly ask his Majesty's Government what their intentions were now with re gard to the repeal, if he thought the answer would be one on which he could rely. He had differed materially from the Noble Earl (Grey) in his course while he was at the head of the 'late Government, but he must say, that every feeling of political hostility which he had entertained towards the Noble Earl ceased, when he saw that he had been, he (the Earl of Harewood) thought, unworthily made a sacrifice on the pre sent occasion.—( Hear, hear.) The. Marquis of CLANRICARDE said, that the Noble Duke had told their Lordships that his Majesty's late Govern ment possessed the confidence of Parliament, and might there fore have passed the former Coercion Bill ; but he begged to ask the Noble Duke whether it was probable that his Majesty's Government would have continued to enjoy the confidence of Parliament, if they had taken a course from which Parliament could have inferred that they had demanded the powers given by the Bill, without feeling that there was a necessity which justified them in asking for those powers:—( Hear, hear.) He for one denied it.was traced out that the disturbances existing in Ireland were the consequences of agitation. He admitted that if the minds of the people were stirred up against. the laws—if they were persuaded that they were ill governed, they would be brought into a state in which they would be more easily inflamed to acts of violence and outrage ; but he would trust to the moral influence of improvement to counter act such evil tendencies. That agitation was the cause—the" primary cause, and the sole cause of, outrage, he would deny. The whole history of Ireland disproved it, as no one ought to know better than the Noble Duke. Was this the first law that their Lordships had passed for the suppression of dis turbances? Was this the first time that the state of Ire land had been bad? Twenty-eight years ago, when the Noble Duke himself was Sec re t ary f or I re l an d, laws of this kind were introduced. Similar laws were also introduced some years before the rebellion. That agitations much injured the people, he did not deny ; but he repeated that agitation alone was not the cause of what was called predial outrage. When society had been long suffering from evils which had oppressed it—when it might be said to have grown up under the inflic tion of those evils, their Lordships must know that such a state of things was not removable by any sudden act of legislation. He should support this bill, because he did not think sufficient grounds existed for a stronger law, and because he had a firm reliance on the Noble Individual to whom its administration was to be entrusted. Of that Illustrious Nobleman he would say, that the whole history of his private life, the whole of his conduct before the public, was a guarantee that the powers "'given to him would not be abused—that lie would exercise them with impartiality—with great lenity, but with sufficient firmness. This was one of his chief reasons for not opposing the preseitt act. He would omit the clauses relating to meet ings, with the object of restoring, as soon as possible, the com mon law of Ireland, which he hoped would be restored next year. If any one thought that security in Ireland was to be obtained by coercive measures alone—( Hear, hear)—he must say, that in his judgment such an individual showed that he had a very imperfect notion of the state of that country. They were told that security was not to be obtained by giving way, and concession had been talked of. The term concession had been applied to the giving to a great body of people their rights and privileges.—( Hear, hear.) He could inform their Lords'aips that it was not by applying the principle of coercion and restriction that they would ever be able to restore peace and security to Ireland.---( Hear, bear.) The Earl of H A DDINGTON did not think of contending for the proposition, that to coercive measures alone they ought to look for security. He was well aware that there was much to occupy the Parliament and the Government of this country, perhaps for years to come, in devising measures in defiance of all the clamour that might be raised, for the improvement of Ireland, for her peace and for her tranquillity ; but if their Lordships determined on introducing a coercive measure, if they were persuaded that it was necessary in the present state of the country, the question was, whether that coercive measure should be efficient, whether it should go to the cause, or deal only with the effect, which was the subject more immediately under the consideration of their Lordships.—( Hear, hear.) It would be presumptuous in him to doubt that the Noble Mar quis ( Clanricarde) was better acquainted with the condition of his own country, than he (the Earl of Haddington) was ; but he thought he had pretty good authority on his side, when he said that agitation and predial disturbances were as inti mately connected as cause and effect. He had the opinion of the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland to that effect ; he had the de cided and strong opinion of the late first Lord of the Treasury to that effect ; he had the opinion of his Noble and Learned Friend on the woolsack to that effect ; and he believed that he should have had the united opinion of the whole Govern ment to that effect—( Hear, hear)—but for the disclosure of that private correspondence and juggling which had taken place, from which it appeared that confidence had been be trayed, and which, for the sake of those concerned, he wished had never been made known. The very reason of the thing would show that it must be so. They had the predial outrages in the one case; in the other they had the agitators touching on the string which they knew would be responded to by the feelings of the people of Ireland, and creating a question, which, but for them, would never have been created. Yet, what did this Bill do ? If they passed it, they would press with the weight of all their loins upon the unfortunate, igno rant, deluded peasant out of the house an hour after sunset, agitated and inflamed by the declarations of interested agi tators, who went abroad in the night to scatter discord and ruin around them. Upon the poor misguided men they pressed more than was necessary ; but in the case of the agi tator they pressed not at all, or if they did, they pressed upon him with their little finger only. Thus they were content to deal with the effect, but the cause they left raging still.— - ( Hear, hear.) Suppose he had no authority for what he was urging, he would ask their Lordships was there not an answer in the nature of things ? He had listened with great satis faction to the speech of the Noble Earl who lately held the office of Privy Seal. In detailing what had taken place on a recent occasion, it appeared to him (the Earl of Haddington) that his Noble Friend had stopped rather short. He would not repeat what his Noble Friend had stated, because he would not weaken the effect of his Noble Friend's remarks, but he would come at once to the point. His Noble Friend, to the best of his recollection, finished his statement by making some re marks on the indiscretion or blunders of his Right Hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland. Now he (the Earl of Had dington) was certainly one of those who thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman had been very hardly used. It might be that his Right Hon. Friend had been guilty—who was there that might not be ?—of some common indiscretion. He himself admitted that he was guilty, and, to speak the truth, he (the Earl of Haddingion) could not deny that statement of his Right Hon. Friend, but at the same time it was worthy of remark that for some days his Right Hon. Friend bore the whole blame of that indiscretion. The subject was brought under discussion, but there was not one word said by any human being to show that any human being had been guilty of rash ness, indiscretion, insubordination, or whatever they were pleased to call it, but his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland. At last it came out that there was another—a Cabi net Minister—a Noble Lord of unimpeached and unimpeach able character, who had so far participated in the indiscretion, that he had authorized the communication without ever con sulting with the First Lord of the Treasury on the subject— which communication that Noble Earl, standing in his place in this House, said was made to a man with whom he had autho rized no communications, because in that man he did not think that confidence could be placed. There was some one thus to share with his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland the blame of what had taken place. If he might be allowed in these days to refer to the ordinary channels of communicaa tion, he would say that he had once seen a statement which he had never heard contradicted. That statement was made by a Noble Lord in another place, who was nearly connected with the Noble Earl late at the head of his Majesty's Govern ment, and who, having the honour and the interest of his No ble Relative near to his heart, put a question to his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary for Ireland, and asked him whether any other persons had communicated,or had followed him in comma nicating,not with the arch agitator of Ireland,but with the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland ; for he had not forgotten that his Right Hon. Friend was dealing not only with Mr. O'Connell, but with the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland also. His Right Hon. Friend replied (very properly, no doubt : probably if he had been in the same situation he would have given a similar answer) in such a manner that his answer amounted simply to a refusal to answer. Why, if his Right Hon. Friend had known that no other individuals had communicated with the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, would he not at once have given that reply ?—( Cheers from the Opposition.) Would he not have said, " I, and I only, was the official communicator with the head of the Irish Government." He (the Earl of Had dington) had not the slightest suspicion that the Noble Lord who was Home Secretary was a party to such a communica tion. His Right Hon. Friend, however, simply replied, " That lie saw no reason why, having been guilty of one in discretion, he should be led into the commission of another." Then, till that statement was contradicted, he (the Earl of Haddington) concluded he had a right to say that there were other communicators.--( Cheers from the Opposition.) Who they were he knew not ; probably he never should know ; and now that the mischief was done, he did not much care to know.!--( A laugh.) But lie would say that his Right Hon. Friend had been very ill-treated indeed ; and that he was sure there must be more in this transaction than met the eye. Sup pose his Right Honourable Friend had gone unauthorized to make that communication—suppose he, holding a subordinate office, by going first to the Lord Lieute nan t o f Ireland, and then to the arch agitator, had caused all th ose di s t ur b ances which had ended in driving out of the Government the Noble Earl who was its head—in the high manliness and integrity of whose character it was impossible not to have confidence— and who, as a clog to the wheel of the movement, was more especially entitled to that confidence--suppose, he repeated, such had been the interference by a subordinate officer of the Crown, could it be argued for an instant, that he would be at this moment Secretary for Ireland ?—( Opposition cheers. ) He would say, rather, that there had been much that they did not know of, and the effect of which had been so ably described by his Noble Friend, as likely to produce an unfavourable im pression in the country as to the character of public men, and as not looking like a very auspicious beginning of this new Administration. He called it a new Administration ; he was aware, however, that his Noble Friend at the head of the Go vernment stated the other night, that it was not a new Admi nistration, and that it was meant to conduct the Government On the same principles as were acted on while the Noble Earl was in office. He (the Earl of Haddington) was a good deal struck with the positive declaration of the Noble Earl, that this was not a new Ministry. That it was so, was surely shown by this fact, that the Prime Minister had retired, and he was somebody.—( A laugh.) He was a great man in this country; and he was still more somebody in his situation at the head of the Government. When the Noble Earl resigned, they were told th a t t h e w h ole Govern ment was dissolved—that it was at an end. But-whether it was in the hands of the Noble Lord now at the head of the Government, or whether it was in other hands, he did not know, and lie must admit th e y were i nformed, that though it was dissolved it was not dissolved.—( Laughter. ) However, it revived again ; here it was, and not a new Government, but an old Government.—( A laugh.) The very first measure in troduced by this new old Government was different from the measure that had been introduced by the former Government. They were unanimous as far as he knew on that measure. and they now unanimously recommended a different measure. There was this extraordinary fact, however, that they did not approve of the measure they recommended; they all expressed their regret that they had to bring it forward. His Noble Friend had told him that it would have been impossible for them to carry the first Bill through the House of Commons. He had great respect for the House of Commons ever since it had been reformed, though he preferred it as it was be fore, and nothing should induce him to speak of that House but with respect. Still he would say, that lie could not believe the representatives of the people, coming fresh • from the peopl e , would think so little of the poor peasant, as to consign him to the curfew, while he who kept the country in a state of continued disturbance, while the agitator wh° was the cause of all the mischief, was allowed to escape. 11 , e would say that it was unjust ; he would say that it was cruel. He regretted that they sh ou ld b e ca ll e d on t o p ass so one-sided a measure, bearing as it did on the ignorant, unfortunate, and perhaps the oppressed, but undoubtedly the poor, and letting go scot free those who agitated the community, while theY served their own purposes. He did not believe the difficulty existed in the House of Commons; it was to be found some where else—in the Government itself. Here, however, theY got into a labyrinth. lie confessed he did not understand on e half that had passed on this occasion. That the Government was composed of' individuals • who entertained discordant opinions on this measure, was true. That those who 'were most attached, in these days of popularity-hunting, and wbie a , were commonly called popular principles, had prevailed, the n, could be no doubt. He felt sure that one at least of the Noble Lords opposite would rather have had the Bill contain the clauses that had been omitted, than be without them. But the Bill was to pass, maitre the opinions of those who thought it imperfect. His Noble Friend said that difficulties , would have been experienced in the House of Commons, ha d this not new, but old Government, attempted to carry the fir st Bill through that House ; but how could that be, if this were the new-old Government, which had sufficient influence t i ° , cause its opinions to prevail in the House of Commons ? his Noble Friend should pursue a course really calculated to give peace to Ireland; and if he would, at the same time , withstand those efforts at vague and indefinite changes, 101'0 now unfortunately prevaileden this country, he would promise: —though he knew it was of little use,—his decided suppc i tt i ; but he was afraid, considering the manner in which his Nei:, Friend's Government commenced its operations, that it ‘ l" .. not likely to lead to any results so happy as those to which had averted. A new Government had been formed, and no thing had yet occurred in this House to prevents its having fair play. Should he prove a false prophet, no man would le' joice more sincerely at it than he should.-( Hear, hear.) The Earl of WICKLOW said that not only were there documents on the table of their Lordships' House to-prove th e necessity of this measure, but not a member of his Majesty's G o " vernment had,said a word to establish that necessity. This was one of the most uncon s tit u ti ona l measures th at ever passed the British Legislature. It was true the Noble Lord at the bead of the Government did, in opening the debate, say something relative to the subject, but he addressed himself to their Lord" ships in favour of the former Coercion Bill, which ba been read a second time, and was now upon their Lordshilr table awaiting a third reading. The whole speech of t?' Noble Lord was in justification of the Noble Earl, anat! Noble Lord declared his own opinions to be in unison NI; those of the Noble Earl in favour of the former measure. r ) t contended then, that they were called .onto pass the pres en , Bill, without any documents to show that it was necessa r y' before them, and without any Member of his Majesty's G p . i . vernment making out a case on which they sh o uld give it th i i support. He received satisfaction from finding that it was n ° l intended to take the sense of the House on this subject, for'.),it were, be should feel in an awkward position. He sho o suffer more embarrassment than he had ever done before i ir t giving a vote in that House. If he opposed the measure an e ot failed, be should consider he was taking from the Governm e ta.e that awful responsibility which should always rest on the be By pursuing such a course, should anything go wrong in o ld Government of that unfortunate country, Ireland, he she ' re enable his Majesty's Ministers to come down to this 1 1 ° 13 :, and say, " You, the Parliament, have taken on yourse: l ; e _ the responsibility." On the other hand, no considera t l: on earth should induce him to vote for the Bill. 1 . 1 10 . better course, therefore, would be to retire without gic l , , any vote at all. He considered it the most unj u st and tyrf c ' e nical measure that had ever passed the legislature of al r people. He knew that all those Noble Lords were called o, to support this Bill who had voted for the bill of last year ;, ss e denied that the measures were the same. The bill of 1 5, year Was a bill of mercy and justice as compared withitn, l i d Was not this evident on the face of the bill ? True, Cr denounce and threaten with vengeance the public agitate7e it held out the terror of the law against those who violated I n it law ; it went to the root of the evil.—( Hear, h e ar.) stated that such should be the punishment of crime, itt' co care to remove the cause of crime. Such had been its C't during the year that it was tried in Ireland, and such sta tedwag by to be its effect by the Noble Earl who had retired, an the Noble and Learned Lord. When on a former occasics.o had attempted to call attention to the contradictions of Noble and Learned Lord, it was said that the time he had se t a lected for that purpose was net the proper time; that he wl a , wait until the measure was under the conside ra ti on a Par ' te ment. Then it would be for him (Lord Brougham ) , d express his opinions on the subject. His Lo r d s hip, instea,4 a so doing, was now to be seen reposin g on th e W o olsack,, s- ' r the other Noble Lords were sitti ng i n equa l s il en ce to v iD o e lij what might be said. Unde r th ese c i rcums t ances he a take the liberty of reading what the Noble and Ler.r n . e , Lord had done on a former occasion, and their Lordsh i p would not fail to contrast it with the present cours e of 'e Noble and Learned Lord. He qu o t e d from a reply of the i Noble and Learned Lord to a Nobl e E ar l (Earl of Durh a l i , who had objected to the c l auses f or th e su pp res sion of me t! , ings as unnecessary, an d th ere f ore un j ust ifi a bl e . His Lerre ship then read as f o ll ows When he said that there v , e outrages in Ireland which rendered it necessary to susPe e it the constitution of the country - -for he did n o t d en y that f was a suspension of the consititutio n t o i n f r i nge t h e ri ghts °, the people—when he saw that circumstances required a nd tified this, he could not but ask himself this question---w be e ther, if he was found to suspend the constitution, and infringr the rights of the people to this e x t en t, as regar d e d cases t°o predial outrage and local, it was i m p oss ibl e f or hi m to dra' Ao l line ; and in justice to the people, and consistently as regar e A the measure, to take the distinction to which the Noble had referred, and to say that h e wou ld p ut d own di s turbaS ee :, in the country, but would h o ld hi s h an d i n t he toe. That he would press ha r d with th e we i g h t o f hi s loins t ie the peasantry, but not press with th e we i g h t o f his 11 ,0 finger on the towns ; but th a t, r i g ht or wrong , t h e Pe ° e r,a of the towns should be allowed to exhibit a foolish z to or an excess of feeling, to m an if es t th e i r po li t i ca l agit S i e d and excitement, which they might thi n k j us tifi a bly C 'ig. for, and still that when he saw conduct of this sort, creasing the excitement throughout the country, an d nour - 0 0 ing the flame of local agitation, and propagating it, hew ° oo t not interfere to prevent it. Could he do this, or was be e O f rather bound to address his attention totlK exciting ea lis- ce r these evils ?" His Lordship further rema -ed, It via s , e - il ld tainly an infraction of the constitution to say that there s"" of be no public meetings ; but it was a still greater infraction& the constitution to say that a man might not go about his la h a d occupations, except by d a y. Th at was a more undoubteuv,t; as unprescribable a right as t h e other ; yet the Nobl e i 'he would allow that the one r i g ht s h ou ld be suspended, thonVati would not oppose the suspension of the other. He (the etif Chancellor) hoped, that if th e H ouse wou l d think tha t is be necessary that greater, and more extensive powers shot 13° given - to the G overnment , t h ese powers sbot""bes! directed to the exciti ng cause ." N ow , h e s h ould like t° erg the Noble and Learned Lord show in what mainer this s o was in conformity with the principles laid down in the ret e ee ele which he had just rea d. H e k new t h e ta l ents of -the best and Learned Lord, and he was exceedin g ) y anxious t°,„ ,elst how the Nobl e an d Learned Lord, and other Noble n is it could reconcile their support of th e present measure t° O 1 consciences. He knew that there had been two r e ,Tt)te assigned for p th as e a alterations.intthde was mB yilsslttaewtreiiodt with mysterious With reg, ar the n ot e le e r r publicaw would private u reason, ld Oneh t h art e ca s t eah l o v en a c s a public, ari - a to ascertained that the Noble Marquis at the head o f the i t hat Government could dispense with them. It was declare' eeat it would be as easy to get the House of Commons to r e ,'" . I H au ou se s s e , oh f lo C in o g el lso se the Reform Act, or any other important measure, as t , ° the original Bill under these circumstances. denied 1 51. Fr to be the fact.--( H ear .) H e did not venture this dents;lo ,1 others might have d one , an d as a l l would be justified in "-019' on a knowledge of the conduct of the House of C°lllel'ioblf seeing how it had supp or t e d t hi s Government, which the' he' Lord called the same as t h e l ast government, but Phi" or proved to be a very different one; indeed, every day it wa s s o° dergoinE further chang es , some one slipping out, and sonf t es 4 slipping in. —( A l aug h.) Onl y to - day he saw it announce' set his Noble Friend opposite (Earl Mulgrave) had obtained a t in the Cabinet, and lie was happy to see him there. 13 , 11 de i / was about to say, th a t t o hi m i t seemed clear that the P;'`, -bad House of, Commons wcu ld h ave passed the Bill, if not been for the extraordinary—h e would almost the them disgraceful—disclosures which took lace 3d of July, when one H onoura b le Gentleman said' his honour it was not so ;" and another Hon. Gentlemnal said e o n his honour it was so ;" which was followed by i rk, asseveration to the effect, that "On the honour °fa elit' r man it was not so ;" the reply being, that " On the bletit eij e a gentleman it wasso." That course of proceeding eP scr to him to be very unusual in a deliberative assembly •,e0 111 ; impossible, under the extraordinary nature of the Cl solve stances, to avoid coming to a conclusion unfavourable t ° 0 4, one ; his own belief was, that Government refused to her' public thi s l etter, not on l y f rom a fear of exposing the tre - t e f t e' , and misbehaviour of one of their body to the public, b, u o , 3 o o f f an apprehensi o n o f di sgust i ng t h e more virtuous and " 4 .c 1 4 . able portion of the Cabinet. Therefore that a gr °ss o-.1 / 1 betrayal had been committed by some one—( Hear, 11 ,et e t 0 1 ;s though the Noble Earl late at the head of affairs lieu t .:felt') he was betrayed, yet his whole conduct showed that ' l ' beg . / had been, otherwise, why had he quitted office 2--( He er i e tte r e t It was said that no Cabinet Mi n i ster h a d wr i tten the very possibly not; but it was beyond a doubt that the tied ` e , had been written under th e dictation, and at-the sugg es a a Cabinet Minister—( H ear , hear)—this was the full an on, ral persuasion of the p ress , an d of every person who he fog t` thing of the matter. H e s h ou ld certainly not vote e mutilated Bill. f The Bishop of DERRY regretted, from mo tives 85 ° manity, that thes e c l auses were not retained, for it li ese rvi o r t that their operati on h a d b een hi ghly servicea bl e in Prvisce,°o peace. He had very little doubt that the Ne b)e e eig would soon find hi mse lf un d er t h e necess i ty o f Pt, JO` to.effect the promise he had g i ven , t h at if h e f ou nd t i o co t t is , effective without these c la uses , h e s h ou ld ca ll Pal oh ie gether for the purpos e o f i nsert i ng t h em. The ~5 0 count had much better insert th em at once . r e ec The Marquis of LANSDOWNE said, that the se 0 ,0 might be more properly described to b e postponed e be ald he tain contingencies, than as absolutely given up, for s cece r ii i experiment of not enforcing them fail, which, hf s n ee; be hoped would not be the case, they would, when tu e tba',) arose, be inserted. It was only on this understanding( nor had consented to support the measure as it stood. r ose o lf He denied that the Noble Earl (Grey) had ever OP the ° d ie entertained an opinion that he had been betrayed• the inoti feeling—a very natural one—was dissatisfaction a os o cretion which had been committed. Had the ilnP pa (Ai wl, no apprise histrati every e Solved 11 ,..,te, az Cha nce to Prev4 of th e mated t had for t ehtion hear. ) o f last ession_ MI