The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, Ilinecil S. The Tiouse met to-day at a Quarter foist Ten o'clock. The Bills on the table were forwarded a stage. CHURCH BUILDINGS BILL. On the motion of the Bishop of LONDON, the Church Building Bill pulsed through a Committee after some ob servations from Lord Wynford, Lord Tenterden, and the Bishop of London, with some verbal amendments, and the report was ordered to be received on Friday. CIVIL LIST. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM, in consequence of some reports that the report of the Civil fist was to be made to-day, wished to know from the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government when it was probable the Bill would be brought in, as great 4e , - lay had occurred in granting the Civil List, and he thought his Majesty WAS kept much longer than usual out of bit supplies. Earl GREY said it was a matter of great importance, but it was quite impossible for him to say when the pro ceedings would be adopted in the other House. Ifi s hope was that the Committee would not continue much longer ; at all events the Noble Duke might be certain that his Majesty's Ministers would do all in their power to expedite the Bill. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM said, that a rumour had reached him that the Committee was to make their report to-day ; and he was therefore in hopes his Majesty's mi n i s t ers would be able to say when the Bill would be brought in. Earl GREY observed that it was quite impossible For him to say. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM—ProbabIy before Eager ? Earl WWI' could not say. REFORM—LONDON PETITION. The LORD CHANCELLOR had in his bend a peti tion from the Lord Mayor and citiiens of London in Com mon Hall assembled, on the subject of Parliamentary Re form, which at present engrossed the attention all classes of his Majesty's subjects, The only reason that oc— curred to him for the honour which bed been done, in being entrusted with the presenting to their Lordships the petition of this great corporation WELF, that he was himself a freeman of that corporation. The petitioner: expressed their strongest approbation of the measure of Reform brought before the other House of Parliament by his Ma jesty's Ministers, and prayed, that when it came into their Lordship's liouse, they might give it their most favourable cosaideration. LAW STUDENTS' PETITION. The LORD CHANCELLOR had another petition on the same subject to present from the Students at Law, and those practising under the bar in the Four Inns of Court, praying that their Lordships would take the measure into their favourable consideration. The petition was very numerously signed ; and the gentlemen who signed it were generally studious men, and little concerned in the ordinary business of the world. SCOTCH UNIVERSITIES. The Earl of lIADDINGTON, adverting to the cir cumstance that a plan of Reform was under consideration in the other House, by which some additional Members of Parliament were to be given to Slgland, observed, that it might he well worth while to consider whether it would not be expedient to give the return of a Member of Par liament to each of the two principal Scotch Universities. It was known that the Scotch Universities had lately been visited by a Royal Commission to examine into their state and situation, and this might facilitate the means of pro curing that information which might be necessary to en able them to come to a sound conclusion of the question. lie did consider it due to these learned bodies to consider whether it might be proper, so far, to extend the elective franchise to them, In order to bring before their Lord ships the information to which he alluded, he moved that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be pleased to be caused to be laid on the table of this House an account of the number of gra duates who had taken the degree of Doctor of Divinity, Law, or Medicine, or the degree of Master of Arts, in the University of Edinburgh, from 1800 to 1830, both inclusive. A similar motion for Glasgow, The Earl of ROSEBERY, although it was not usual to second motions in that House, was yet anxious to ex press his cordial approbation of the motion of his Noble Friend, and of the object for which it was made. The Bishop of LONDON wished that a distinction should be made between the resident and the non•resi dent graduates. The Earl of lIA_DDINGTON—That was hardly pos sible, for the Sc,,itch students did net reside within the walls of their several universities and colleges. Lord TENTERDEN observed, that it was highly de sirable that the distinction should he male, for it often happened that persons in very inferior grades in the pro fession of medicine, and perhaps in other professions, went to these northern universities, and, without any residence or attendance at lectures, or, at least, after a very short Tesirionep an d attendance, got themselves made Doctors. The Earl of HADDLNGTON was not aware that there would be any difficulty in pointing out the amount of at tendance on lecture given by the several persons who gra duated during the period mentioned, although it would be impossible to make the distinctions required by the Right Reverend Prelate. Lord WYNFORD thought that the amount of attend ance ought, at le•.et, to be distinctly specified ; and The Earl n' HADDINGTON withdrew his motion, in order to p.:t it in a proper shape. THE REV. MR. MARTIN DOYLE. ship-owners of Plymouth against the additional duty 021 Canada timber..•-Adjourned. Lord CLIFDEN had a petition in his bands, to be presented, from the Rev. Mr. Martin Doyle. the object of which was to clear his character from certain imputations which he had understood to have been cast against it in that House. He had some doubts whether this petition rantld, in point of form, be received ; but the petitioner stated that he had been for fifteen years parish priest of Donegal, in the county of Carlow, which was within a mile and a half of the resldence of Lord Farnham—that in the course of that time he had been a member of an asso ciation for preserving the peace of the country—that he hod been instrumental in detecting and bringing to justice certain persons who had been great disturber' of the public peace, and had received the thanks of the Protestant Rector of the parish, and a Grand Jury of the county of Carlow—that he had been very intimate with Lord Farn ham, who was a member of the association to which he alluded, and he expressed his conviction that Lord Farn ham was too honourable a man not to bear witness to the truth of his statement ; and, finally, he produced four affi davits to show that he had no concern with the distur bances on account of tithes, although he knew that they were a most grievous burden to the country. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM rose to order. This was not a petition, and the Noble Lord himself had stated at the outset, that in point of form it could net be received. Lord CLIFDEN contended that he had a right to real the address of the Grand Jury at least, if not to read the s'Edtvita. The LORD CHANCELLOR was unwilling to inter rupt any of their Lordships, and more particularly when he was speaking for a party who stood on his defence.— But really they must preserve some order in their pro ceedings. In the other House they had a Speaker, whose peculiar business it was to preserve order; but their Lord ships' Speaker had no more to do in that respect than any of their Lordships ; but speaking es a Per, he must ob serve, that all this proceeded on a breach of their privi leges. lie complained of what passed in that House, although he could not, without a breach of privilege,know what passed there. To be sure their Lordships winked at these things; but if a man came there with a distinct statement of a breach of privilege, they must take notice of it, and therefore the matter had better be left on what his Lordship had already *Wed, and on what another Noble Lord (Farnham) might choose to say. Lord CLIFDEN had already pretty well attained his object. Lord FARNHAM—Although this proceeding was not regular, yet be hoped the House would indulge him with a few words. He had before stated that he had been well acquainted with M. Doyle, him. It was perfectl and had a great opinion of V correct that he had been a Mem ber of the Association for pre s erving the peace of the coun try, and had done much for t l, j e at object. He had been burgluamrs, three of whom had instrental in bringing to b n ic e a desperate gang of u e gad, and two ported. It was perfectly correct that trans hehad received the thanks of the Grand Jury of the county of at the same time when he wa s on terms of Carlow. But with Mr. Doyle, he was not concer n ed in politics, nor 00 her fined agi tation on account of tithes or any other. He confined in co himself to his parochial du t ie s, excep t in t o far as conc erned in the preservation of the peace of the countr y , W But in the course of the last two y ears he had assu med aa different character. He had already stated that he had a high opinion of the character of Mr. Doyle, when he was intimate with him, and very much regretted that he was obliged to change it. The petition was then withdrawn. The Earl of MORLEY presented a petition (ma the Constitution and the deepest philosophy, with ever's , or nament which historical and fictitious literature could supply. Did any Gentleman suppose that, after that HOUSE OF commOi.VS, MAPcx S. speech, he might not defy any patron or any Minister to The gallery was not opened this afternoon until a Quar- unseat him.—(Hear.) Free that borough as they might ter past Five o'clock, in consequence of there being three that Hon. Member had now such a tie upon his consti ballots for three Election . Cominitteeee far the city tuentstbat he could not be separated from them.—(Hear.) of Londonderry, Dover, and Stockbridge. Th e Commit- What cared that geiAtlaktan now for the influence of the tees having been appointed, and a few petitio ns presen t e d, Mareuis of Lansdowne? Did n ot gentlemen observe the The order a the day for resuming the debate on the difference between the elegant speech which the Learned Referee measure was read. Gentleman (the Member for Drogheda) delivered last night, Mr. O'CONNELL rose ‘l . ' a te L tlarter before Six o'clock, and his former addresses to the 11°u-es from the opposite His object in ,presentii4 himself to the House was for , side, tyhere he sat ab th'S representative of a rotten ho the purooee of giving his most decided and anxious rough . lid they not last night mark the independence of support to the Bill of Reform,_( c •h 'o s— his tone, the vivacity of his manlier, the vigour of hi s lan ies of ea., cleans He looked upon the pl an as id , rgt , lib era l, an d wise. H e guage? When he was on the opposite side, sitting for a would go further, ape 'A'y it was generous.—(Hear.)—ln rotten borough, and regularly attending the divieions— fact, it wan te ellectual measure of Reform.—(Loud cheer- (Laughter)—did they remember how his powers were t . tg, tea cries of h ear f rom a ll parts o f t h e House.)—if his restricted; and his "soiee use d to tremble when he spoke. Majesty's Ministers had offered less the country *Mild ' --`(Laeireldtet.) Cod help those who crawled into that have required more ; but if the COttitty reeniired 'entire House.—(Cheers and laughter.) There was another spe than was offered. it might ratlotially eepent to be disap- cimen of rotten boroughs in Ireland. The r esolutions of pointed. The measure shonid haSie leie. support, and if he the House said that no Prelate should meddle in the eke possessed infl ue n c e eeseedsetst that influence should he ex- tion of Memhert to sit in that House. But he (Mr. treed in favour of the till. It was well known that he O'COne.ell) believed he saw near him a gentleman who was was a radical reformer. It was well known Mt opinion notoriously sent there by a Prelate.—(Great laughter.) was in favour of universal nitrate for short dura- He did not say that the borbugh of Armagh was the only tion of Parliament, and vett by ballot. Yet he would one in Ireland he the elections of ,which a Prelate exercised not object to the reeent measure, although it embraced none a controesling influence. That borough was celebrated for of three principles, it was liberal without them. the miracles, but he believed it had never produced a greater measure would have the effect of proving e'epe'S imentally that miracle than the conversion of a Chancellor of the Exche if no farther extension was eteeaOnded, no further extension suer.—(Laughter.) Scarcely had the Right Hon. Gen was necessary. If it te..tistied the country it would prove tleman taken his seat, when the Orangemen, the Metho that univeresl suffrage and vote by ballot were unneces- dints, and the Presbyterians of Armagh burnt hiin in earys As a radical reformer, he accepted the motion effigy. Yet had the Learned Member for Boroughbridge neith all his heart.—(Hear.) He certainly might relse all beeii as much in a pathetic as in a comic mood; he would objection that the principle did not go fat enough as re- not merely have been like Niobe, all tears—(Laughter.) garded Ireland, but he had no doubt the Administration —he would have been careled out of the House in tears, thought they had gone tar enough in that respect; and as for the atrocious and unconstitutional project for striking off the nreastte iVis of such an advantageous nature for the the two Members of the Prelate's borough of Armagh. Btitillt community, sorry should lie te to offer any There were other boroughs to lie thrown open, in speaking opposition.—(Hear.)—it had the effect of opening a ll of which it was not possible for any man to be in a merry close boroughs ; iS gave to all copyhold proprietors of mood. Gentlemen are aware that there is another class 10/. a .yea`' the same advantages as those possessed of of persons who crowd around a new Member of Par freeolds for counties, and never had he hoard any cause ' liainent (and they crowded around him, Mr. O'Connell, assigned why they should not be ple.ced oh au equality. little as he had to do with England), and ask him does be As it related to counties it sees a measure highly bene- know of a third man.—(Hear, and laughter. )—They say ficial. An objection bed been started to it as it re- that they have got two to stand, and if they could only hated to eountlee by a Right Hon. Gentleman, by saying find a third man, he would be sure to get in.—(Great that teetnty-eight counties were to have ten additional laughter.)—Was that the Old Constitution—(Cheers) — Members, and the Privy Council were to have authority to so much talked of by those conscientious, religious, scru divide the counties, each district of the county having pulous gentlemen, who would ask a man his creed at that authority to return two Members. It had been said that table before he would consent teellis sitting amongst them. this was an unconstitutional proceeding, but he (Mr. —( Cheers. )—He would ask the Noble and Learned Mem- O'Connell) could not for his life conjecture on what her for Boroughbridge—and he assured him that of no possible ground it could be called unconstitutional.— man's integrity and worth he had a higher opinion— The Privy Council in Ireland were employed in a similar (Hear)—he would ask him, as a conscientious man, as a manner. Counties were divided into local districts by responsible being, would he give his voice for the preser barristers of the country, under the authority of th e vation of a system which opened such a field for prefli- Privy Council, and all the litigation that took place wa s gacy, corruption, and the violation of the privileges of tried according to divisions, nor had any man ever that House every six years, almost every year.—(Hear, made a complaint against such proceedings.—(Hear, hear.)—Would any one—at least, would any one out of hear, hear.) The Privy Council, toe, in Ireland that House—(A laugh)—deny that such was the case in divided parishes, and there never had been a single all the half-open boroughs ? Nobody. Would any one complaint against that. Thus the experiment pro- in that House den y it ? Certainly, no one ; except those posed by the present measure was not a novel who in sophistical speeches, which say nothiwg distinctly, experiment—if it was it was a harmless one. After all, and deceive the speakers themselves, insinuate what they if the Privy Council in England acted wrong—if they dared not assert.—(Cheers.) —Who would deny that the made an unfair division of one county, was votes of those burgesses were sold as oxen were sold in it to be supposed that they would make an unfair divi- Smithfield, and that the seats which represent them vision of many counties—(Hear, hear, hear)—and if were sold and let as the stalls in Leadenhall market.— they did make an unfair division of two, three, or four (Cheers.)—Did any man suppose that the people counties, was there not a power in Parliament to of England would not resist and destroy that system ever-rule and check such improper proceedings ? of corruption ?He did not mean by any sudden vio (Cheers.) Who could suppose that such a base proceeding fence, but by the force of opinion rising gradually, calmly, on the part of the Privy Council would he endurable for and irresistibly, as a giant rising from his sleep.—(Bear, an hoar?—(Hear, and cheers.) The Hon. Member was hear, hear.) Was it fit, then, that gentlemen with the sore it coied not possibly be, and that he would only he full knowledge that corruption was so common in those wasting the time of the House by expatiating further boroughs, and tolerating that corruption themselves, should on such a subject.--(Hear, hear, hear.)—ln England it come into that house and gravely vote a resolution that could be neither more nor less (the division of the any person obtaining a seat there by bribery is guilty of a counties) than an unmixed good. No one had stated gross violation of the right of the Commons of England? any thing like a solid objection to it; and he rejoiced —(Laughter and cheers.) It might be very well to re ' heartily in the prospect of getting an increased number of solve all that in jest. But the people were not in jest when constituents, as well as an increased number of they demanded that the nomination of Members by Peers, county Members, of whom it had been said, and truly and the purchase of seats by money, should both be got said, they were the least revolutionary of any.—(Con, rid of. Gentlemen said, that the Bill of the Noble Lord tinued cheers.) The next part of the speech of the Noble would produce a fantastic variety of votes—(Laughter)— Lord opposite related to the boroughs, and he was delighted that was the word—a fantastic variety. Had they not at with the mode in which the Noble Lord had treated present as fantastic a variety as could he desired ? Had those boroughs. lie had applied the pruning-knife they not Mayors and Aldermen, Mayors and Jurats, to the rotten boroughs of this country with a Mayors and Liverymen, scot and lot payers, potwollopers, thorough masterly hand.— (Hear, hear.) He had cut u p and every variety of electors that the most fantas is taste unsparingly, root and branch, those rotten, close, and ob- could give a name to?—(Laughter.) On the contrary, the noxious boroughs.—(Hear.) What had been the com- Bill would put an end to the motley constituency. It was plaints of the House, what had been the complaints of complained that it was an act of disfranchisement of th e the people about those rotten and close boroughs, non-resident freemen. It should rather be said that they and had those complaints been idle cr imaginary ? disfranchised themselves, even under the existing system, (Hear, hear. )--The people had complained of them— by their non-residence, of every thing but the power to the public had complained of thein—the House had com- sell a vote. He was glad that, with the exception of non plained of them—they were in direct contradiction residents, the Bill left the suffrage of existing freemen to every theory of our Constitution. Every atom o f undisturbed. The Ministers had very properly abstained our constitutional principle was violated by them. Wh e n from interference with vested rights as much as was men talked to him (Mr. O'Connell) of a new Constitution, consistent with the great object which they had in view he had to ask them what the old Constitution was ? —(Cheers.) This measure, lacing one of e xperiment, (Cheers.) He had to ask them whether it was not fit that they had very wisely confine I its operation within the nar the people should be fairly and properly represented, rowest limits which its fundamental principles would el and not that the mound of Old Sarum should send its low.—(Cheers.) The next objection to which he would Memb e r,' into that House.—(Cheers.) Who could ven- advert teas merely arithmetical ; it was, that of the Hon. ture t o sa y th a t Old Sarum was a constitutional Member for Aldborough, who complained that two Mem borough ? The very right of sending a Member for Tralee hers were given to Tavistock, which had but four or five had been inserted in a marriage settlement as a lady's fortune, thousand inhabitants, whilst Brighton, with its population and at this very moment a Noble Lord in the Treasury of 24,000, was to have also but two representatives. But represented that place through such marriage settlement, it was a fallacy to say that two representatives were given —(Hear, hear.) Theoretical writers, lawyers, judges, to Tavistock.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He and all denounced the practice adopted in respect of those thanked gentlemen behind him for their cheers. Ile boroughs. Why should Noble Lords and gentlemen have would grant that something was given to Tavistock by the the right to nominate Members to sit in that House.— bill. From a close borough it lied become open. Instead (Cheers. )—Had they not beard in the course of this dis. of twenty-four electors it was to have one thousand--(Great cussion of the boroughs of the Duke of Norfolk--of the cheering on both sides)—and to Brighton, which hitherto Duke of Newcastle—of the Duke of Devonshire—of had no representatives, two were given. But from whom the Marquis of Cleveland—of the Marquis of Lansdowne— did the argument come, that Tavistock ought not to send and of other Nebles ? Had the House not heard as many Members to Parliament as Brighton ? From the of their boroughs—of their provinces, and admirable gentleman who would give no more representatives to tact at finding out young men of genius and talent Lancashire than to Rutland, and would give as many to and winging their way about with the olive-branch in Gatton as to the city of Westminster.—(Vehement cheer their hand, until they found a suitable object on which ing and laughter.) These gentlemen called the mea to bestow their favour.—(Hear.) Was this consistent sure a revolution, because it would take down from the with the Constitution of the country ? What was the Constitution the handy-work of those who had made it first rule and determination of that house ? Before like the walls of Appleby—(Laughter)—so patched and they had even sat a single moment in that House ; built upon, that scarcely a spot of the original fabric before the King's Speech had been read to them could lie seen. Ministers seemed to be disposed to --(a Ki n g, than whom no King that ever sat on restore it as nearly as possible to its original state, any throne would ever deserve better of his subjects)— And in the repair to preserve as much as they that it would be a high infringement of the rights of the can of the structure now standing.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Commons of the United Kingdom for any Membsr of Perlin.- Member for Aldborough had also treated the blouse to inent, Peer, or Prelate—(Laughter)—toconcern himself, or another discussion, in a tone with which he (Mr. O'C.) to take any part in the election of a Member to serve was certainly familiar.—(Laughter.) He would admit in the Commons House of Parliament.—( Hear, hear.) that if he were acquainted with any style of oratory, it Good God, was this to be sounded into their ears, and yet was mob-oratory.—(lleir, and laughter.) He did not were the Lords to send their Members one after the other mean to say that such oratory as he had heard from the in the most open and avowed manner into that House Hon. Member fur Aldborough and the Learned Member for those rotten and close boroughs.--(Loud cheers.)-- for Boroughbridge, would satisfy mobs to which he had Should Gentlemen tell him in the teeth of that house, been accustomed—(Laughter)—for the people were good that the giving that power to a Lord was the " Old Con• judges of reasoning on subjects that concerned their own stitution ?" Yet these were the gentlemen who denied interests. The Hon. Member for Aldborough had endea hypocrisy. The hypocrisy of that resolution was theirs, voured to show inconsistency in the arguments of the or they were parties to it. If any gentleman attempted Learned Lord (the Member for Dundee), and the quota to violate that resolution clandestinely it was the duty of tion of the Noble Lord (the; proposer of the Bill. But the Speaker to defeat that attempt. But if the violation the Hon Gentleman had misapplied the quotation of the of it was, as gentlemen insisted, the " Old Constitution," one, and mistaken the argument of the other. He referred he would say, let the question he regularly brought before the Noble Lord back to the Statutes of Edward the First, the House, and let the resolution he rescinded.—(Cheers.) "De Tallagi non concedendo." There the Noble Lord —B u t l e t them not be told that a Bill to enforce its ob- had found the principle, but the Member for Aldhorough servance, whilst it stood upon their hooks, was a revolu- would argue that he ought to have taken it with all the him tion.—(Cheers. )—The Hon. Member for Cailington had her and rubbish with which it was encumbered.--(Cheers.) become quite enamoured of the " Old Constitution," since For his part, he (Mr. O'Connell) was delighted at the he became possessed of his own borough ; in speaking of breaking up of the rotten boroughs ; and he did not care which he was quite poetic, and called it a " violet." whether they were violets or not, he would sacrifice a whole —(Great laughter.)—Others toll them that they were nosegay of them daily upon the altar of the Constitution.-- about to make an unjust seizure of the franchise by (Laughter.) lie looked upon their destruction as a va that Act of Parliament, and to commit a robbery. Let suable part of the Bill. But the cry, that that was a cor them see, then, who were really the robbere—(Cheers.)— poration robbery, had resounded through the blouse in He never heard of a grant of a charter from the Crown, every variety of tone but a low one, and had been empowering any one to send Members to Parliament. sung in every key but a minor.—(Laughter.)—Now he He never heard of such a charter.—(Hear, hear.) No, (Mr. O'Connell) had had leisure to examine the cases of the franchises were granted to the people; it was not th en thirty-six of them, and of tie se how many did gentlemen this Act that seized them, but this Act laid hold of the spa. suppose were not corporations at :Ill.—(heer, hear, and a ii aors of them. They had no right to question the privileges laugh.)—Why just sixteen were corporations, and the re of the House of Lords, but they had as good a right to maining twenty had never been so at all.—(Laughter.)--- preserve the privileges and liberties of the Commons of The House would, perhaps, be surprised to hear that even England.--(Great applause.)—The close boroughs the Boroughbridge itself was not a corporation at all. When people understood perfectly; the people talked sense gentlemen said so much about the proposed measure being out of doors upen the subject of Reform, and that a corporation robbery and a seizure of the franchise, he common sense was, you have got our property, you have supposed they were inclined to assist him (Mr, O'Connell) spoliated our liberties, but you shall disgorge them.— in obtaining a repeal of the Union. For, if there be in He had heard the impartiality of the Ministers impugned, the Noble Lord's Bill a seizure of the franchises, such as because they allowed the boroughs of Caine, Knares- Parliament had not a right to make, what would gentle borough, and Tavistock to retain their franchise. He men say to the seizure of the franchise of one hundred (Mr. O'Connell) would not then utter into the particulars corporations at a sweep, by a single Act of Parliament. of that question, though he knew something of at least (Great cheering.)—lt was also clear, that the Parliament one of those boroughs. A petition complaining of the who disfranchised them had not tried and convicted them retu rn o f th e p resen t Member for Caine had been entrusted for corruption, but they disfranchised them without guilt ; to him for presentation; and in the inquiries upon the as it voted 13,000 guineas apiece to the proprietors of petition, the seats of those became very doubtfol a sveek forty of them.—(Hear, hear.)—Now, gentlemen were ago. en the sittings of the Comn,ittee h e l earne d that the staring at him — not as if he spoke Irish, but as if lie had corpo ra ti on of co ne conta i ne d at mos t b u t 46 M e mbers. two hea ds u p o n him—(Laughter)—because he complained By the Bill of the Noble Lord it would be thrown open. that the Act of Union hadgood 'ed naturedly-suppli Let any gentleman read the speech o f th e Hen. Member him wit h the f orcible argument of corporation robbery for Calne, combini ng t h e most extensive knowledge of thf and seizure of franchisee,—(Cheers and laughter.)--.The \ . .. • • S and odd, by which that county was reduced to 364 elec tors, and Carlow to 140. From those facts it was then apparent that the elective privileges of Ireland had been reduced within exceedingly narrow limits. But there was now another provision of the Bill, of which, on behalf of Ireland, he thought he had a right to complain. It was that by which borough freeholders were deprived of votes in the county'. That was taking the privilege from a very respectable and excellent class of electors, men who had the independence and the intelligence to think for themselves, and the sturdiness to act upon the suggestions of their own consciences. A large class of the respectable inhabitants of Belfast were thus excluded from any share in voting for the representation of A utrim ; and the inhabitants of 'Praise, in a similar way, from their proper share in the representa tion of Kerry, Then copyholders were enfranchised, or to be enfranchised, by the present Bill, and so were termers for years in England. Why were persons of a similar de scription in Ireland not to be enfranchised also? A very large proportion of the property of Ireland was of necessity let upon leases for years ; and surely if the principle were good in England there was nothing in Ire land which went to vitiate it. A large proportion of the church lands in Ireland were let upon leases for years, and he might be asked, with what consistency did he demand the enfranchisement of Bishops' tenants? Did not that go directly to increase the influence of the church ? Gen tlemen, he trusted, would remember that the Rev. and Right Rev. Persons to whom those lands belonged took especial care to have the leases renewed as often as they possibly could, and to procure the highest prices that the tenants could be induced to pay ; for this reason the te nants were independent of their landlords; therefore, to give them the elective franchise was to impart it to a large, intelligent, wealthy, and independent body of men. He really thought that, upon reflection, every holiest and in depsndent Member of that House must arrive at the con clusion that nothing could have been more unjust than to have disfranchised the Irish forty-shilling freeholders in the manner in which that great act of injustice was com mitted—that was, by fixing the qualification se high as ten pounds. For his part be was content to divide the lifference—he should be content if the highest qualifica tion were fixed at six pounds. With such anomalies, then, as he had stated, it was idle to talk about continuing the Union between this country and Ireland. lii Ireland, they had 17, at least, if not 19, nomination boroughs. The borough of Portarlington, for example, was brought openly into the market, and it was announced that any gentleman might be returned for it who would lend Lord Portar lington 40,0001. or 50,0001 , at legal interest, upon good security; the person who lent the money, became the Hon. Member for Portarlington. Did he urge the•e as reasons against the principle of the Bill ? No ; he was grateful for the abolitions it effected, or, if his gratitude were not worth mentioning, he should say, in the name of his constituents, that they were deeply grateful for those abolitions. But, to return to the proposed changes in the representation of Ireland—he thought the people of that country had a right to complain that the 501. and 201. freeholders, being non-resident, were to be deprived of their votes. He would select Dungarvon, merely as an instance ; there, not only the Si. house renters were to be disfranchised as well as the 501. and 201. freeholders. Those instances, he conceived, ought to be enough to sa tisfy the House that the present Bill had been prepared with insufficient knowledge of the state of representation in the different counties and boroughs in -Ireland. Was the House prepared to get rid of the old established sys tem of the Si. house-renters in the Irish boroughs? Ile repeated that those remarks were not urged as any matter of cavil, they were merely then put forward at such length, and only with such degree of detail which that stage of the measure called for ; but at a future time, he should enter mote minutely into what he conceived to ba matter of the very highest importance to the interests of justice and the honour of Parliament ; and he hoped that when he did so, the appeal which he intended to make would not prove unavailing. The lion. and Learned Member for Drogheda, anxious to defend the rotten bo roughs, adverted to an argument which was certainly un worthy of him, and from which he seemed to shrink, as though he were conscious of its unworthiness ; that ar gument was founded upon the assumption that the present Bill would go to increase the power of the Catholics, at the expense of the Protestants. Was there never to be an end of religious feuds and animosities ? Did any in telligent man in the country believe that any borough holder would, fur a moment stop to inquire whether the money he received came from Catholic or Protestant hands ? Would Sir E. Denny, for example, ask whether the money he received came from him (Mr. O'Connell) or from a Lord of the Treasury. Was every improvement to be met by the same old cry of Catholic and Protestant ? The one set against the other, and was it not enough to have kept the Catholics for centuries from religious free dom, but now to make them pay for the toleration they enjoyed, by the forfeiture of their civil rights ? It was time at length to break down the long-continued monopoly which had originated with Cromwell and his party, a power which had been cemented by the blood of the fol lowers of Charles 1., men who afterwards were betrayed by his son Charles 11. There was no one who had not the slightest acquaintance with those sub jects who did not perfectly well know that every borough in Ireland was one of the closest and most compact mo nopoly that could be imagined. Forty boroughs were created by James the First in one day, for the purpose of furthering his designs upon the property of two entire provinces—those boroughs consisted each of only twelve burgesses, and some of them were so poor and so deficient of inhabitants, that they found difficulty in pro curing even that number; and what was one of the re• suits ?—that in the Irish House of Commons an English man and a Welshman fought in the presence of the Speaker, and it was not ended till the Welshman conquered, and that was venerable antiquity.—(Cheers.) He then came to an argument that was founded upon assertion, that the close boroughs afforded an opportunity of introducing clever men into that House. He had at one time intended to make a catalogue raisonne of the clever men who came into that House through the means of rotten boroughs, for the purpose of seeing how far Members of that class had proved beneficial or otherwise, to the public, interest. He regretted to think that the Hon. Baronet (die Member for Oxford) should have been the first to stand forward as the opposer of the present measure—he regretted that the cho'en representative of the clergy should have thought it part of his duty to have so strenuously opposed the rights of the people. It was not so in times past, and the Hon. Baronet might remember that Langton, Archbishop of Canterbury, was no efficient supporter of the right and liberties of the people. Ile was sorry that the Hon. Ba ronet had not shown something of that Protestant spirit of liberty, as it was called, by becoming the advocate of the present Bill. They had, on the other side, talked of the seizure of charters—yes, charters had been seized by a King James, and by a Judge Jeffrey, and a re volution was the consequence ; but what was now proposed was not a revolution in the State, bat a renovation of the Constitution.—(Elear, hear, hear.) They had heard in the course of the debate most eloquent statements of the glories of the borough system, and of the distinguished individuals which it introduced into that House—they had a list which began with Mr. Gunning, and ended—bless the mark !—with Lord Liverpool. To his mind those names afforded anything but evidence of the beneficial working of the borough system. In that list was contained the name of Mr. Canning—a name that called forth the loudest cheers—cheers in which, he con fessed, he did not sympathise, for though Mr. Canning supported the proposition for Emancipation, yet to the last he opposed the removal of the disabilities affecting the Protestant Dissenters ; and surely the principle of a Protestant who opposed the relief of his brother Protes tants, could be of small value to posterity. Then there was the name of Mr. Burke—he was a high Tory—a man who thought the people ought to be perfectly contented if the rich and great were well and comfortably provided for. , Mr. Burke got a pension, and he believed that pension was paid to the present hour. He believed, if the people could get rid of the pension, they would give a receipt in full for the eulogium pronounced upon his name. That . which might serve as an epitaph upon Berke, and which , contained a good estimate of his character, was contained in these lines : Itight Honourable 13 trohet, the Member for Tam• worth, called the eeiZure most atrocious, and the Ho nourable Member for York said that it was Most iniquitous.—(Cheere.)—What did they say, then, to the seizure of the Irish franchises ?—( Hear, hear.).---Let them then either assist him in the support of the Bill be fore the House, or in carrying the repeal of the Union.— (Great cheering.)—lf they did neith6a he for one could never rely upon the sincerity of their professions, or upon the soundness of their arguments in that House. For England, then, he would repeat, he saw nothing in the measure but good ; although the Hon. Member for Cel ligton said that his violet would he transferred to the garden of the Duke of Bedford as soon as the borough was thrown open. He would say nothing of the heads of that noble houtee. They might ge on in succession like flowers of the field, which bloom to-day and will disap pear to mot row. In speaking of the disfranchisement of the borough of Retford, it had been said that measure would be like the killing of a single wolf in a cage while the rest of the flock was roaming in the forest.—(Laugh ter.)—But if they would now kill the rest of the flock, God help the one or two which might he left in the cage from the cheer of the Lord and the tally-ho of the fox hunter.—(Great laughter and cheers.)—The wens of the Constitntion being once removed the smaller warts would not long remain, if they should even escape the first operation. As to Scotland, it requited no spectacles, no second sight, to discover that the Bill gave to Scotland great advantages. In Edinburgh, the thirty three present electors were represented by three, and they again by one, who, as the representative of 120,000 people, received more of the public money than any other representative of 110,000 people that had ever sat in that House. He would back the Honourable Member for Edinburgh against any other representative of the people for doing nothing but receiving money end signing receipts.—(Laughter.)—The majority of the voters of Scotland bad neither land nor income, and pos sessed their franchise solely by virtue of a piece of parch ment, which had not even the dignity of a seal, nor even of a bit of wax.—(Laughter.)—Those Scotch voters had only the advantage of a parchment vote.—(Hear, hear, hear, from Sir Charles Wetherell, followed by great laughter. )—Perhaps it would he thought a sufficient Re form for Scotland to raise the parchment voters to the dignity of the wax.—(Laughter.)—The only gentleman who had ventured to defend the parchment system was the Noble Lord, the Member for Sutherland. Now it appeared that all the voters in that city held under his family, and of these twenty-four were only parchment voters. With the wand, as it were, of a German wizard —(Laughter)—the Noble Lord had called up the shade of Fletcher of Saltoun, to testify against the improvement of his country. But Fletcher must be very close indeed in his grave if, when he heard that a free, representation were about to be given to Scotland, he did not turn in that grave.—(Laughter.)—Were the people of Scotland so destitute of intelligence and discretion, that they are not to he trusted with the free choice of their representa tives, but must have what the French called a garde feu for their protection in the shape of the parch ment voters?--(Laughter.)—lt had been shown that Scotland had grown up in prosperity since her connection with free institutions, how much greater would be her prosperity, had she possessed free institutions her self? Her increased prosperity furnished the strongest arguments for the necessity of extending the freedom of her institutions, and trampling down all that remained in them of feudal despotism.—( Hear, hear.) He would only , add one word respecting the measure proposed for Scot land, and that was, that he highly approved of the regula tions intended on the subject of the tenures- He also ex pressed his approbation of the conduct of the corporators of Glasgow, who, tiring of the despotism with which they were invested over their fellow-citizens, came forward voluntarily to offer the snrrender of their corporate privi leges. In the first of the Noble Lord's propositions which applied to Ireland, he was sorry to think that malign in fluence prevailed, which seemed to controul every thing that related to Ireland. But he did not care for that.— (Hear, hear, from a Member behind Mr. O'Connell, which was followed by repeated cries of order ! from all parts of the House.) " Well (sushi Mr. O'Connell) I am here ; the gentleman may say hear, hear ! if he pleases.— (Cheers. )" lie felt no ungenerous jealousy towards Scotland. (Cheers ) He regretted that it was not intended to ex tend the advantages of the measure liberally to Ireland ; at a time when her distresses, like the malaria approach. ing Rome, was gradually ascending upwards from the lowest clesses of the people.---(Hear, hear.) Of the bene volence which he invariably observed in that House on every subject on which feelings of liberality or charity were appealed to, he saw no manifestation towards Ire lend.—(Hear, hear.) On the contrary, he had seen an Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) take credit to himself for ge nerosity towards the present Government, in supporting them in a measure of harshness and tyranny in that coun try ; and he had seen the Ministers, in their turn, com plimenting the Right Hon. Baronet for having been al ways ready to assist in the oppression of Irelend. But what had the Right Hon. Baronet done ? To what did his generosity amount? Indeed, that he defended a mea sure which he had originated himself—that he gave the Government his protection for an act of which he was the author—of which he shared the reproach.—(Hear.) They had a proverb in Ireland, which, though very ap plicable to the conduct of the Hon. Baronet on that occa sion, was not fit for " ears polite," being suggested by those animals which were seen reciprocally allaying the cutaneous irritation of each other.—(Great laughter.) By the measure of the Noble Lord, the capital of England would have double the number of its representatives, get ting sixteen instead of eight. The capital of Scotland was to he proportionally benefitted. But no such boon was intended for the capital of Ireland. Of the number of English boroughs to which an increased representation was given, there were fifteen of less population than the county of Antrim; there were nineteen of less population than the county of Down ; there were twenty-two less than Tipperary; and there was not one, with the exception of Lancashire and Yorkshire, which was not of less popu lation than the county of Cork. It might be said with respect to Cork, that there were a considerable num ber of boroughs in that county ; to that he replied that even if Cork gave up all its boroughs, it would still have a population of at the least 100,000 souls greater than any of the English counties to which lie had referred. Was not that a state of things into which the House was called on to look ? He respectfully demanded, then, another Member for Antrim, another for Down, another for Cork, another for Galway, another for Kerry, another for Mayo, and another for Tyrone, for he could show them that every one of them was above the line of 200,000. He was en titled, he felt, to make this call when he remembered fleet they had 62 Members, as it were, in Bank. He might be told that Limerick and Waterford were to have addi tional Members—they had already Members in that House, and their interests were well attended to—and it was fitting that they should be—but in the name of the town of Galway he respectfully demanded another Mem ber. On behalf of Kilkenny and its vicinage, which, be fore the Union, returned four Members—he demanded another Member. In making these statements and obser vations with respect to Ireland, was he to be understood as arguing against the Bill ? quite die contrary. He was endeavouring to give it all the support in his power; but he was, at the same time, making an appeal to the common sense, the justice of the Members of that House, and labouring to make an appeal on behalf of what was due to Ireland. It had often been said that he possessed in Ire land what had been called an irregular power. Did lion. Members wish to see him deprived of that, then let them agree to the present Bill, and let them superadd to it an act of justice with reference to the representation of Ire land. Again he begged to repeat, that he was not arguing against the Bill, that he was not labouring to make a bargait. in the matter of representation ; no, he was sin cerely anxious to promote its adoption by every possible means within his reach. lie should now, with the per mission of the House, make a few observations upon the disfranchisement of the Irish 40s. freeholders. In the county of Antrim, with a population of 260,000, that Bill disfranchised, at one blow, 6,2-16 Protestant free• holders ; those were a bo ly of electors not only not guilty, but not accused, At the time of passing the Catholic Relief Bill, which was the time when the 40s. freeholders were disfranchised, it was said that it would be invidious to disfraochise the Catholics and leave the Protestants un touched. He should meet that sort of reasoning by a single remark, that at the time when that Bill was under the consideration of the House, there were in this metropolis eighty Catholio gentlemen of Ireland. They might, he submitted, be considered as fair a representation of the Irish Catholic nobility, gentry, and clergy, as an y that could be assembled. They immediately and unanimously agreed to address the Legislature by one petition against the Bill, and by another, say ing that the Catholics had been accused of having abused their franchise, of being under the influence of their priests, and that they were, therefore, to be dis franchised. The petitioners said, " be it so ;" but, said the Petitioners, there is no complaint against the Protestant freeholders ; and let not them be disfranchised ; that was signed by those whom he was justified in calling the re. presentatives of the Catholic Clergy, the Catholic No bility, Catholic Gentry, by Catholic Lawyers, and by every Irish Catholic who came to this country upon that occa sion. By that Disfranchisement Bill Galway lost 32,000 freeholders, Dublin 10,000, Kerry 8,766, Tyrone 6,600 !jlere lies our good FAlraund, whose genius was such , e scarcely can blame it or praise it too much ; Who, born for the Universe, narrowed his mind, And to party gave up what was meant for mankind." He had heard much of the talent and the learning, and the high principle and the public services of the men who sat for boroughs ; but were there no dull, stupid, drowsy, venal representatives of boroughs—men who, without ta lent to join in the debate, were never wanting in the per severance of waiting for the division ? The men of talent were spoken of as if the rotten and close boroughs never sent any other into that House. It was like presenting the play of liandet, not leaving out the character of Hamlet, but by omitting all the others, Polonius, the Grave-digger, and all. It was showing up the stars, and concealing all that was mean, pitiful, and obscure.-- But then they were told that the system worked well.— Let them only inquire of their agricultural population—let them look in their prisons—let them look to the opera tion of their game laws—let them peruse their wilful tres pass acts.—(Cheers.) Oh ! but that House was imma culate ; and yet that immaculate House approved of the Walcheren expedition, and approved of it chiefly by means of the votes of the borough Members. In 1822 the votes against retrenchment gave a return of nineteen votes out of twenty by Me nbers representing places not containing an average population of •500 persons. The repressPra tives of towns having a population from 500 to I,oooj voted in the proportion of twelve for retrenchment, an thirty-three against it. Those upwards of 1,00 0 an o cot amounting to 5,000 inhabitants, the Meinh, rot, d seventeen for and forty-three against retreneu• meet ; and the Members for towns where the P°P?; lation exceeded 5,000, the numbers were si% t Y:: l , t Memliers for retrenclamant and only forty-seven agal-h it. Then that- House, in praise of which so rn a ' d had been said, though it never voted that two and two made five, yet arrived at the notable cone'!l% that a pound note and a shilling were worth a g u ,, ln „ e ye at the very time when every Member in that Hu; knew that - he could not get a guinea at less than 5 0 % added to a 1/. note. Still they were told that the worked well—did it work well in the production--OAi; had been 3 - ateal, of a debt of 800,000,000/, hu t ' a nus would contend, of 1,000,000,0001. No, the `l)te prospers, not in consequence of the system, but in de Pi ts of it ; it was the natural advantages of the c ounrrYr to ports, soil, mines, and climate, which raised E n g i , g t f its present pitch of greatness. Still it had its ae`",b ' t 1,000,000,0001., and if the despot of the Russia , th °t ?, 4 proper to tear the Poles to atoms, to abolish their Ya t ": t e religious institutions, and to substitute his o wn --to c re to r the vilest inquisition that ever afflicted an enslaved cat ! , —to institute every species of persecution that rhe , t r , verted ingenuity of man could devise—dare Eagla ° ":'. terfere ? No; her 1,000,000,000/. precludes the I re ' bility of it now, and in time to come. The Engl ish o s sa not stir an inch ; yet her soldiers were as fearleot 00 1, her officers as gallant as ever ; but the 1,000,0007° eis of debt brought on by the working of the borough 0.4 1, 0 , presented an insuperable barrier. The owners of 11 , 4 ti ll roughs, and those who profitted by the debt, wo uld the in good set terms contend for the beneficial workini;alo borough system ; like the lilies of the field, " they ° ico r j not, neither did they spin, but Solomon in . all ht 3 goy was not arrayed like one- of those." But, say wha t ' o il might, they never could get rid of the debt, and theiroei resource fur enabling them to bear it was, by c fig r t. really and honestly represented people to their 0114) %1 Once aga , n, when they talke I of the excellent workl e ir the Constitution, he would whisper a single word in ' re v ear—" Ireland !"—that country, of whose prop P t , in vial starvation was the lot. He would call on rhelb,'ed the name of that God of charity who had so often w at- ,Le the bosoms of Englishmen to secure to that country ~d blessings of good Government, and give to theroselveso, to Scotland tl.e only security against revolution.'" ( the Hon. and Learned Gentleman was loudly cheered at cook conclusion of his speech, and frequently during the c°l' . . - of it) or' Mr. ATTWOOD congratulated the House on the, ri diality which seemed to subsist between the bad Bench and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman v """ e just sat down, as likely to lead to peace and confidelijefe the country from which that gentleman came. g el was now in this country an agitation going forwar„ t Ito , similar to that which prevailed in the sister island, rte sincere ly hoped that Hou e wool I rot be a rayed 11 , 0 1 ,1 clamour of a multitude. lie could not see how i t e i. o o be contended that the people would relax on the q ue° , ol of Reform. They were in love with the principle, ‘4, they would still go on with it ; and it could only' be re llf ported that they would be content with this roses those who heal the reins of Government, on the sir of the discontent of the people.—(Cheers.) The lat e o ct. vernment had gone out of office on a question of fieo 0 and he, therefore, could not see how that showed tb thd reformed Parliament was demanded by those wh e l ltltt voted against them. If this first were concede'oll people would proceed to still further c h ang e, they, s e t a ' t he demand additional change, and again would be raj' bi' same cl +moor and excitement, the consequence of : o trli would be, that the remaining bulwarks of the State 'oetli disappear. Before they proposed to destroy the P b r s it o system, they ought to x %mine fe Irk ssly into ' sr r g c lig character was, and the means that they had of g°l;tbe against the consequences. He therefore begged to ° a te attention of the House to the different state of the I's the sentation now to what it was then. It was sai d Ott •,,tOO present representation did not conform with the dise - , of society in this country—that new towns bad WT 1 70 0 into wealth, which it would not be just to exela_ e A ite Parliament, and that those who possessed the herr : 03 0 1 power of influencing the return of Members to barite had encroached on the rights and liberties of the r - o° by which means a full representation of the tradi j p g commercial interests of the country was preveatewa tho did not pretend to belong to the class that posseso° 410 hereditary power of which he had just been speakill'lll in interest, feeling, and sympathy, he was oi tj o tt°,, people. As such, he could say that he thought the ' on which this measure rested was not well foundielisir did not appear to him that the commercial and tra u d i d d terests of the country were unequally represented o° tsl present system. He requested Members not t ci pei that for granted without examining the question• c ol had been told by the Lord Advocate, that the mid dle t t had increased b tth in number and isrelligenne; refy" ,,e ~ not the higher classes also increased? And , t"eas thee'f why did not the Corperation interests stand noW s tf did formerly. In his opinion, the commercial inte r ; 0 1 ° ' the country were nitre actually represented now' th re es' would be under the Bill of the Noble Lord-4'loo'p and to hope that that measure would be the fi'uthe, tx ment of the question was to hope what could 0000,4 would be impossible to believe that vested rights j 0 , 13 1 `, left alone, when those privileges were extinguisbeltioiote, had been so long enjoyed. He was sure that o° o f °e , was prepared to maintain that not the privileg°3ioed borough were to be retained as long as there reolo, more populous town unrvesented. Yet once I v Bill, and such would be the results.—(Hear.) 10 ther; Advocate had said, that they ought not to pto ;DO' selves with the Plantagenets and the Stuarts, h ot re . „ o ge, , the vast mass of knowledge and talent that had lit %t o t a l ; lated within the last five and twenty years. ge „ o oe tt surprised that the Learned Lord had fixed -`OOO v period, for that was about the length of rime ,b9,toeio E linburgh Review had existed. They were told c i twi t t large towns were to send two Members each, a° I . stlt would satisfy the demands of the people. i Sle r a f t ° , that be enough. The greatest clamour that ' l.- „oct; place had been in Newark, Stamford, and sne h i r st eSa j d those. And were they extinguished No ; n es tot i e d extinguishing them, the same principle was to l'e d t he':A? to 34 other towns.—(Cheers.) But whence ha niar rt ,o d representation of the commerce of the country t Liverpool sent two Members, but many of ber t to who had sat in that House had never sat for J P , 09 but for boroughs. Manchester, under this chat?,g t ,": l •l o ,rit have two representative's ; but at what time hogerT ii ltt not that place really had at least three times tW ° , l ' ? Y . 0 1,1 who protected its interests and spoke its elerna ° l ; o o:, e j to ( Members were to be added to the metropolis• ire otO tt they be merchants ? What merchant, had 1 1% et 1 0 Ott or Southwark ever returned? And with resr e , fo r i to City of London itself, though he had every re s P ie e te id/ Members who sat for it, yet it could not be ( c i they were not really the men who represente,loo, coerce. Who were these men ? The two bers for Callington—the Member for Bramber---r, te r her for Alidhurst—the Member for Weirdo° a O f tl' e Members for Old Sarum. Those were the i° ,o 0 , fi e House who represented the commercial intereoottreoa ti° o metropolis.—(Hear, hear.) What they w ere . tro oi was, to give up a practical representation, an d ~.j l3 " 11 0 4 the country a nominal one—the very thiog pretended that they were trying to avoid. Tim: 0 1,e ° O lO O men wished to sit in that House was, for ti a t e ; tinctiun ; and did any one suppose tha t wi th merchants of Manchester would be content 7 0.16 6 t ot er t Members that that place was to have? N° vet', they had always sat in that House to a lou e , e ati e° ,o" tent, and this Bill would be the means of Pr ° Jo° to t ' in future. They were to be shut out by the ve , r i r-, Y . it was pretended would open the way to t h ,e, - be 1Y9 0 . 0 the Bill was on principle, how came it tb''' 'ace' ) ,'; same footing, when, if the fair of Tavistock and Manchester were to be P s ver e .,tio Manchester ought to return twenty Mernher'.; t hat o tr" Di t two.—(Hear.) The Noble Lord had s r„ ° tn . 'tlie monstrous that the miserable occupiers co ;por, rd that was Not a correct statement of the et' o - tif eae .04 '' ro , owners, and not the occupiers of thoe d ' t t hat turned the Members—(Hear, hear)---a ° weat te o r io t descended to them with their property , a' joy t hud' ,a testing that property itself. He would 1 0 , o r 13 er ty I r e boroughs were as inviolable as their proper,rY aor pot that it was a fair question, whether, as diet 003 so great a risk, such a representa ticni ge th eu orilf quired to secure it against that risk ? 001 0 .10 0 6 i. the Noble Lord, in the history of his _ oa rtl_a pr ancestors, might have learned that I,4" t y a!' it. , A 0 posed to all sorts of risks, and that cont'atch gacy were ever ready to make a sople the y r e him it appeared that the Right Il°° ° v wha t red ! he opposite and the Noble Lord hardly kn et I . o eo t . ~o t e about to do. They were destroying the c las , e tio presentation —a representation in whiell:o realist o , a s, f oo t people were found, and they were abo ut 'flot, t ies v t icis P AI of Commons a strictly popular a seemb l Y' bot be t 60 t haps, according to seine new view' .__ Elie rs,‘ ° t he° where, except in the minds of some re T tbat ja a theory of our o tatitution• lie kne w Proportion( r