The Sun. — London, England, 1831-06-22 00:00:00

/' • NEW MUSIC AL FUND. THIS UHARITABLE 'CONCERT. will certainly take - place at the King's 'Theatre on FRIDAY EVENING NEXT, the 24th instant, when Signor Paganini, Madame Pasta; and the rest,of the eminent Performers already announced, will atrord their gratuitous assistance. TO BE SOLD BY AUCTION, BI MR. 1315LLOCK, At his Rooms, 211, Holborn, To.morrow and Saturday next, at Twelve, by Order of Trustees, _ TWELVE . PIANO-FORTES, by approved makers, "- all nearly new, and handsomely finished in rose-wood and mahogany cases; a pipe of fine Constantia, and seventy-two dozen of Port and Sherry ; Fifty Lots of useful Cut-glass Ware . ; several fine Paintings ; and principal part of Two Houses ei Furniture, including mahogany and rose-wood chairs, tables, and eheffbniars, couches, wardrobes, secretaire, library tables, bed steads, with' beds and bedding, chests of drawers, carpets, ma reen window curtains, fenders and fire-irons, handsome cliande. hers, lustrcs and lamps, hall chairs, LAW INTELLIGENCE-(THIS . DAY). COURT OF CHANCERY. • DASHING AT A COMMISSION. L" RD CHANCELLOR said, upon an application of the Solicitor-General to have a colmnission of bankruptcy resealed, that solicitors were too apt, for the purpose of getting the car riage of commissions, to dash at striking dockets, and which was often done before acts of bankruptcy were committed. This cir cumstance, however, had the effect of causing people's credit ors to rush in upon them, and driving them into bankruptcy. It was a practice to be highly deprecated, and requiring a check. HEARING APPEALS IN THE HOUSE OF LORDS. The LORD CHANCELLOR intimated that it had now been arranged that he should sit to hear appeals in the House of Lords on Mondays and Wednesdays, after this week ; to-morrow he must be there, , The case of H arr i s v. Kemble was to have come on Mon day next, b u t f or L or d L yn dh urs t's accommodation it has been mtpo n cd till the Monday following. THE ADDRESS TO HIS MAJESTY. The LORD CHANCELLOR had to leave the Court at twelve o'clock, for the purpose of waiting on his Majesty with the Ad dress voted by the House of Lords last night ; but he said he should return to hear Sir E. Sugden make a motion, which he wAs desirous of moving at half-past two, and that, if necessary , h:= should remain in Court till five o'clock. SHIPPING► INTELLIGENCE--(`S M DAY.. FROM LLOYD'S. DEAL, Just '2l.—Wind S.S.W.—Arrived from the- rfter, the Welcome, Paul, for the Mauritius. 'l6'' 1 4 1 1MOU'l H, JVNE 21.—Wind S.S.E. to W.—Sailed his 3 rajeStyN ship Childers, for South America. PLYAIOUTH, JUNE.—Wind S.W.—Arrived the Culn4.. Russian man of war, and Leone corvette, from Cronstadt. FALMOUTH; JUNE 20 —Wind S.W. to W.S.W.—Sailed the S anthvieh packet, for Lisbon. Arrived the Gem, Brown, from Marseilles. STANDGATE CREEK, JUNE 21.—Arriva4jhe Diligente, 111ezze from Palermo ; Amethyst, Bell ; Dorothy, Paul ;,and Bampohire, An s from Petersburgh ; and Scotia, Malcolm, ,from Riga. gu LIVERPOOL, JUNE 20.—Anived the Margaret, Lampton, I d William, from Quebec ; Ell e n, Jenkinson, from Lisbon ; an d fro l ui . A i r o r t i l v . Cu«'LS, JUNE 2 ed the Calcutta, Rowan, from Bengal, sailed the 30th of January. PORTLAND JUNE 21. —Arrived the Coromandel, Boyes , " . ° lll Bengal, sailed the 97th of January, and from Madras the I Sth of February . TORBAY South Wales. Arrived the Liverpool, Wilson, from MemeL UOYLAKE, JUNE 9.o.—Arrived the John, Ormond, from Oporto. Tile Richmond Hill, Morris, bound to St. Andrew's, 1) ... 4 back to Liverpool with damage, having been on shore on r utin Island, and thrown fifty tons of salt overboard. THE MARKETS.-(THIS DAY.) CORN - EXCHANGE. ' Our supplies since Monday have not been very plentiful, and the trade is extremely dull. There being but few buyers present, 'earcely a sale has been effected, the prices are therefore nomi nal•y the same as on Monday. PRIVATE BILLS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. 111¢ tis, ‘2). die Junij, „, Re,,olved "-That this. House will not receive any Pet i ti on for I rivate Bills after Monday, the '27th day of this instant June. Resolved—That no Private Bill be read the first time after Alonday, the 4th day of July next. Re::lived—That this House will not receive any Report of such Private Bill. after Monday, the ‘2sth day of July next. BesoWed—That upon every Petition• which shall be presented to the House during the present Session, and referred to a Com mittee to examine the matter thereof, and report thereon to the House, the Committee do examine, in the first place , whe ther the said Petition be the same in substance as any Petition for the same purpose, and :Yom the same Parties, in the last Session of Parliament, and whereupon any proceedings were pending on tne dissolution of the last Parliament ; and, in such case, that all minutes of evidence, together -with the documents therein re ferred to, which were taken before the former Committee on such Petition, be received in evidence of the matter of the said Petition, and in proof of the Standing Orders having been coin ' plied with, in respect thereof. Resolved—That the Committee upon any private Bill do exa mine, in the first place, whether the said MI be for the same Purpo se as - any Bill which was presented in the last Session, and contain the same clauses and provish)tis as were contained in such former Bill in the last stage of its proceeding, and where upon any pr ocee di ng s were pending on the dissolution of t he last Parliament ; and, in such case, that all minutes of evidence, to gether with any documents therein referred_ to, which were taken before the former Committee on such Bill, be received in evidence of the allegations therein contained, and in proof of the 'tanding Orders having been complied with, in respect thereof of the ti me between the first and second reading el Private Bills, whereupon any proceedings were pending" • the dissolution of the last Parliament, and which, according to the Standing Orders of this House require seven days, be short ened to three days ; and the time between the second reading of Private Bills, whereupon any proceedings were pending on the dissolution of the last Parliament, and the meeting of the Com- Tnittee, ' be shortened to three days during t he p resent Session of Parliament the parties giving the regular notices in the Private Bill Of fi ce. Resolved—That all Petitions presented in the last Session of Parliament against Private Bills, an d which were referred t o the Committees on such Bills, be referred to the Committees on the same Bills in the present Session of Parliament. Ordered—That the said Resolutions be printed. J. H. LEY, Cl. Dom. Corn. FROM THE OAZETTE OF LAST NIGHT Whitehall, June 16, 1831. The King has been pleased to direct letters patent to be passed under the Great Seal, granting the dignity of a Baron of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, unto the Right • Honourable Nathaniel Earl of Leitrim, and the heirs male of his body lawfully begotten, by the name, stile, and title of Baron ' Clements, of Kilinacrenan, in the county of Donegal. DECLARATION OF INSOLVENCY. THOMAS STATHAM, sen., Clunton, Salop, cattle-dealer, BANKRUPTCY SUPERSEDED. JOHN J AMES SEAGOOD, Bread-street, Cheapside, table linen-manufacturer. BANKRUPTS. WILLIAMS YEWI NS, Claremont-place, Pentonville, mine agent, to surrender June 24, at three, July 8, and August 2, at two, at the Court of Commissioners. Holt, Threadneedle-street. JOHN OWEN, Chiswell-street, St. Luke's, Middlesex, vic tualler, June 28, at eleven, July 12, and August 2, at one, at the Court of Commissioners. Glynes, American-square. JOHN FILTON, Brewer-street, Somers-town, leather-cutter, June 28, at twelve, July 12, and August 2, at one, at the Court of Commissioners. Davies and Outhwaite. Princes-street, Brank. WILLIAM TILSLEY and WYTHEN JONES, Newtown. Montgomeryshire, bankers, June 27, 28, and August 2, at the Bear's Head-inn, Newtown. Jones and Hughes, Southampton buildings, Chancery-lane, London; Drew, Newtown. JOSEPH MELLOR MOORE, Hanging-bridge, Derbyshire, innkeeper, July 5, at six, 6, and August 2, at eleven, at the Office of Mr. Flint, Uttoxeter, Staffordshire. Jeyes, Chancery-lane ; Flint, Uttoxeter. EDWARD JOHN MARE, Sculcoates, Yorkshire, dealer, July 7,8, and August 2, at two, at the Kingston Hotel, Kings ton-upon-Hull. Rosser and Son, Gray's Inn-place, London ; Frost, HulL JOSEPH OSBORN, Gainsborough, ironmonger, July 7, at seven, 8, and August '2, at eleven, at the. Cross Keys Inn, King ston-upon-Hull. Walmsley, Keightley, and Parkin, Chancery lane; Shepherd, Great Dritticld, Yorkshire. DIVIDENDS. - _ J. It. Le Cointe, St. Helen's-place, merchant, July 15; F. Shackleford, Andover, Hampshire, draper July 15 •; F. Nash, Shepton Mallet, Somersetshire, clothier, July 15; Brown, Farnham, Surrey, upholder, July 12; P. Mathews, Copthall court, merchant, July 12; W. Coates, Leeds, grocer, Aug. 26 ; H. Sudell, Mellor, Lancashire, merchant, July 17 ; T. Walley, Manchester, grocer, July 29 ; R. Scaife, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, merchant, July 18; T. Sudell Lancaster, merchant, July 18; W. Thompson, Itawden, Yorkshire, merchant, July 11. CERTIFICATES—JuLY 12 . _ _ . J. Whitehead, Renshaw, Yorkshire, merchant; R. Delves, Tonbridge Wells, lodging-house-keeper; R. Smith, Blackman street, Borough, licensed victualler; C. G. Beet, Stamford-street, Blackftiars, bill-broker; J. Davis, King's-head-yard, Russell street, Covent-garden, orange merchant; J. Hill. Red Lion wharf, City-basin, coal-merchant; R. Davies, Little Pulteiry street, broker; J. Osborne, jun. Epperstone, Nottinghamshire, surgeon; W. Gerard, Frome, Somersetshire, grocer ; P. Wood gate,. jun. Watling-street, warehouseman ; H. Hargan, White Hart Tavern, St. John's-street, victualler • C. King, Ipswich , innkeeper; W. Chadburn, Sheffield, optician ; J Armstrong, Raskelf, Yorkshire, miller ; J. Whit e , Wakefield, Yorkshire, carpenter. PARTNERSHIPS DISSOLVED. J. Hardstaff, S. Hardstaff, and T. Gadsby, Newark, tobacco and snuff manufacturers; S. Hardstaff and J. Hardstaff; Derby, grocers; D. Gardner and F. Gardner, Salisbury, horse-hair manufacturers" J. Mawby and T. Mawby, builders; A. Everard and E. Taylor, Bawtry, Yorkshire, boarding-school keepers ; W. Rex and T. Catton, Newcastle-upon-Tyne, grocers J. Richards and J. Richards, York-street, Southwark, hop and seed-merchants; G. J. Kain and F. Kain, Ratcliffe-cross, ship. owners ; J. Grubb and J. Grubb, Lincoln, drapers ; J. Brooke, d u n J. Hassan and J. Hassan, Chester, brewers; T. Allen and rY, Oxford-street, woollen-drapers ; J. Poingdestre, G. Gibson, and J. Poingdestre London ; G. Berry and T. G. Sam brooke, Arundel-wharf, Water-lane, coal-merchants ; J. Swet tenham, T. Ingle, and J. 0. Swettenham, Wirksworth, Derby shire, attorneys; E. Alex, H. Jones, and B. Jones, Bridge- S treet, Blackfriars, surgeon-dentists, as far as regards the said H . J ones ; A. Campbell, C. Campbell, and J. Campbell, Copthall court, merchants W. H. Collins, H. Edwards , and J. Collins , Crayford, Kent, silk-printers, as far as regards H. Edwards. REPORTED MASSACRE OF TILE PEOPLE AT NEW TOVVNBARRY.---A letter was received in town yesterday, corn inunicating some particulars of a rencontre between the pea. Santry and yeomanry, at Newtownbarry, county of Wexford, on Saturday which, as far as respects the sanguinary determinati on of the military administrators of the law, and the loss of human life, far surpasses the fatal conflict at Castle pollard and every other police or military aggression in modern times. The state. tent which has reached us is in substance as follows :---On Sa turday some difference occurred between the people and the Police, at Newtownbarry, respecting a distress for rent. The Police alleging that they were not in sufficient strength to enforce the distress, applied for the aid of the yeomanry. A detachment of this force, in support of the police, was readily granted, and When they appeared at the place where the dispute on the ac count of the distress occurred, a most sanguinary conflict be. tween them and the people took place, in which, it is said, six of the yeomen were killed, and several wounded, and between fifteen and twenty of the people were killed, and nearly fifty wounded. This account, which we earnestly hope is much ex aggerated,.reached a county of Wexford gentleman, residing in town yesterday. In the absence of any thing like certainty re. 11arding the details, we refrain from observation, and we shall wait with much anxiety for the arrivals by the mail this morn ing--D 0 lin Morning Register. N OFFICIAL IN he earliest op - e letter, which e camp. You seen him ; nor r English gen ank them for be far better if nt to join us. tale at Odin mmber of men, t. Before this employed in frontiers : we trties, and took re took spoil to Amongst in the Guars sorts of luxu ng on tea and ver, seized 300 at fun to hunt rl rainy letters, ites to another your servant ; per Titbits for let-de-chambre wths' trial you bore." my • brothers ad two killed way by a can hoot, but I co ckiest brother t otherwise we fl the Russians Loci expect that ,vo at any rate; rdre) before it Hese vou ;—... SII. :regations at all order of their t, after each of he relief of die mi. There are hers in all the Tey, paid to the ish the sum of )st appropriate by the Rev. J. Magdalen Hos- n for the relief idrew's Seotith •road, amount- Meeting, under collections lot Ireland, which lapel, Brixton )n Sunday last, Styles, when the committee. )11 was preached ms•rong, B.A. illected for the ay evening the affecting appeal John's church, ollected. lis is 10d. rot the a. to IK,d. below Js. fine -5.1055. -s. fine --s. -5. Os fine -5.1103. -s. fine -s. --s. Os. fine -s. 70s. Os. tine -s. 655. Os. fine -s. 405. ss. fine -s 20s. 53. fine 34)5. 353. -s. 50s. fine 565. -s. 565. fine 58s. Os. fine -s. 633. ss. line 803. Ks. -s. new 20s. 255. ss. new -s. -s. os. fine -s. 563. Os. -.3. fine -s. Os. fine -s. 955. -5. -s. fine -s. Rs. 163. fine --a. Bs. 17s. fine -s. -s. -s. tine 14s. -s. -s. fine 185. ss. 365. fine -s. -s. fine 423. 455. Foteign -1. 154. to ll'. 03. 15s. to 71. Os. 12i. to 91. 00. Os. to 161. Os. Os to 91. Os. Os. to 81. 81. Os. to 61. 6s. Os. to 71. 10s. Oa. per ton. 15s. ditto. !Os. ditto. lOs. ditto. —.June IS. Od. to 110. Od. ie. s. ti. to s.d. --.... 1 S 2 0 6 6 each. ..., 3s. 6d. to ss. 6ti. lb. d, to d. ) Hides.. 15 17 ....x.....,.19 23 nen. 16 20 to 701 b. 21 24 to 801 b. 19 21 4cenland 21 211 i.tspur....., aos. mberland 29 9 and C 0.... 29 9 31 3 31 0 nrose 30 9 h— 26 6 25 0 etton 32 .mbt.oo 31 9 ewart's 132 0 I's Hetton 33 0 etton and Tees mix. 30 9 26 (1 24 0 —2B 6 •Uusold. I L -June 18. n the farmers, for ;e on last weeks' ;s perfectly sweet, (ceps equal to the Grinding Barley Fine Dantzic Rye Little doing in —S. .....9.1 S. ...S. I ...S. --.S ...s. -...5. -3. -..5. -S. .. -S. -S. —S. —.4. —S. ......e. 1 —S. ....s. ', ...... —.s —S. ---s. ---s. ---s 503 526. of Lieut—Col Bedfordshire, the !x, the wife of the folk, H. Villeboix, DI Marham-house, of the late T. P. 's, Captain Archi• Establishment, to' lon. M. 'l'. Harris, :th Viscount Tor 14th year. He 1 4 EnAgo hi the Mtti 'OUNG, AT 1 DON Lds No. 12,099. PARLIANIENT. HOU USE OF L O 12) Jux,-; 2 1 . At Half-past Five o'clock the LORD CHANCELLOR tOflk his seat on the voolsark, by which time the body of the House was very much croWded.. The LORD CHANOELLOR, requested that order Might he kept while be read his Majesty's speech, which was as follows . Loans amo Oaxri.rurv, " I have availed myself of the earliest opportunity of molting to your advice and assistance, after the dissolution of the late Parliament. " Having had recourse to that measure for the purpose 'of ascertaining the sense of my people on the expediency of a Re tbrm in the representation, I have now to recommend that im portant question to your earliest and most attentive consideration —confident that in any measures which you may prepare for its adjustment, you will carefully adhere to the acknowledged prin cipl6 of the Constitution, by which the prerogatives of the Crown, -the authority of both Houses of Parliament, and the fiefs and liberties of the people are equally secured. The assurances of a friendly disposition,which I conlinue to reeelie from all Foreign Powers, encourage the hope that, not withstanding the civil commotions which have disturbed some parts of Europe, and the contest now existing in Poland, the ge neral peace will be maintained. " To the preservation of this blessing my most anxious care will be constantly directed. " The discussions which have takcii place on the affairs of Belgium have not vet been brought to a conclusion ; but the most complete agreement continues to substat4 , betweert the: faswers4hgps.Plettipotentibries have been *zonated in thes*On ferences orLondon. The prinidple on which those conferences havebeen conducted has been that of not interfering with The -right of the people of Belgium to regulate their internal affairs, and to establish their Government according to their own views of what may be most conducive to their future welfare and in dependence, under the sole condition, sanctioned by the practice of nations, and founded on the principles of public law, that, in the exercise of that undoubted right, the security of neighbour ing States should not be endangered. " A series of injuries and insults, for which, notwithstanding repeated remonstrances, all reparation was withheld, compelled me at last to order a squadron of my fleet to appear before Lisbon, with a peremptory demand of satisfaction. A prompt compliance with that demand prevented the necessity of further measures, but I have to regret that I have not yet been enab led to re-establish my diplomatic relations with the Portuguese Government. " GENTLEMEN OF TILE HOVSE OF COMMONS, " I have- ordered Estimates of the expenses of the current lear to be laid before you, and I rely with confidence on y our oyalty and zeal to make adequate provision for the public ser vice, as well as for the further application of the sums granted by the last Parliament ; always keeping in view the necessity ; of a wise and wholesome economy in every branch of the public ' expenditure. " MY LORDS AND GENTLEMEN, It gives me great satisfaction to state to you, that the large reduction of taxes which took place in the last and in the pre sent year, with a•view to the relief of the labouring classes of the community, haatiot been attended with a proport onate di minution of the public income. I trust that such additional means zs may be required to supply a part of the deficiency occa sioned by these reductions may be found without any material abridgment of the comforts of my people. " To assist the industry, to improve the resources, and to maintain the credit of the country on sound principles, and on a safe and lasting foundation, will be at all times the objects of my solicitude, in the promotion of which I look with confidence to your zealous co-operation. " It is with deep concern that I have to announce to you the continued progress of a formidable disease, to which my atten tion had been early directed, in the eastern parts of Europe. In formation having been more recently received that it had ex tended its ravages to ports in the Baltic, from whence there is a great commercial intercourse with my dominions, I have directed that all the precautions should be taken which experience has recommended as most effectual for guarding against the intro duction of so dangerous a malady into this country. " Great distress has unhappily prevailed in some districts, and more particularly in a part of the western counties of Ireland, to relieve which, in the most distressing cases, I have not hesitated to authorise the application of such means as were immediately available for that purpose. But assistance of this nature is ne cessarily limited in its amount, and can only be temporary in its effect. The possibility, therefore, of introducing any measures which, by assisting the improvement of the natural reso urce s of the country, may tend to prevent the recurrence of such evils, must be a subject of the most anxious interest tome, and to you of the most grave and cautious consideration. Local disturbances, unconnected with any political causes, have taken place both in this part of the United Kingdom and in Ireland. In the county of Clare, and in the adjoining parts of Roscommon and Galway, a system of violence and outrage had for some time been carried on to an alarming extent, for the repression of which the con, stitutional authority of the law has been vigorously and success fully exerted. By these means the necessity of enacting new laws to strengthen the Executive Government• with further powers will, I trust, be prevented. To avert such a necessity has been, and ever will be, my most earnest desire ; but if it should unfortunately arise, I do not doubt your firm resolution to maintain the peace and order of society by the adoption of such measures as may be required for their more effectual protection." Lord ELLENBOROUGH suggested that it was alwar ratatninas*.a'.4v6re the first reading-of a Bill; - Earl GREY then moved the first reading of the Select Vestry The LORD CHANCELLOR then read his Majesty's Speech to the House ; and the Speech was afterwards again read by the Clerk at the table. The Duke of NORFOLK trusted the House would extend to him their indulgence while he endeavoured to express the gratification which he felt at the Speech which his Majesty had been most graciously pleased to deliver that day from• the throne. It was an indulgence which he felt to be peculiarly necessary ; because, until he had been restored by the Act of the Legislature to the enjoy ment of those civil rights and privileges which he now shared with his fellow-subjects, he had not been in the habit of addressing any public assembly.—(Hear.) At tached as he had been from the earliest period of his life to the institutions of the country, he was happy to take this opportunity of giving his cordial support to his Ma jesty's present Ministers ; whose desire he was sure it was to renovate and strengthen, and nut to destroy those insti tutions. The first topic of his Majesty's Speech related to that measure which had rendered it highly necessary for his Majesty to obtain a thorough knowledge of the sense of the country, with a view to the satisfactory set tlement of the great question which, in the last Session, had been brought under the consideration of the other House of Parliament. It was evident that that question had strongly, bad irresistilly obtained the favour of the great majority of the people of England.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was no friend of rash innovation ; but it ap peared to him to be infinitely more dangerous to adhere pertinaciously to old abuses, than, by a salutary correc tion of them, to add a new vigour to the State --(Hear, hear, hear.) To say that the people of England wished for revolution was, in his opinion, a gross and scandalous libel —(Hear, hear, hear.) What they wished for was, a restitution of those rights and privileges to which they were entitled by the Cerpttitu tion.—( Hear, hear.) It was satisfactory to hear that his Majesty hail received assurances of a friendly disposition from all foreign Powers; and he had no doubt that his Majesty's Ministers were determined to preserve peace as long as that desirable object could be obtained without any sacrifice of the honour of the country ; and that they would for that purpose avoid interfering with the con cerns of other States, while they would resist, with be coming dignity, any insult that might be offered to this country.—(Hear, hear.) The next subject of satisfaction was his Majesty's recommendation, that, notwithstanding the great reductions which had already been made in the public expenditure, Parliament should still keep in view Ireland, t o which the necessity o f a wis e an d w h o l esome econom y. Th e state undoubtedly of bad was graciously pnta an,dv.e7 and adverted, h a ic s h ub h j i e s et M o a t je t s h t e Y importance, one which aught to engage the most serious attenti • on of Parliament. H e thought much might he effected by their efforts, and he was quite sure that • his Majesty's Govern ment would feel every disposition to second • their efforts. In the character and talents of the Noble Marquis at the head of the Irish Government, e also sate much to in duce him to hope, th a t means l would i w di minishing the sufferings underwhi.h be discovered of so large a p o rtion of the people of Ireland at present laboured. He had in tended to make many more remarks ; but he trusted their and Lordships would excuse his deficiencies, sty, him to conclude by moving an Address to his to his Majesty's most gracious Speech. jiisisy,Gnriace here • answer rea d the Address, which was, as usual, an ec h o of the Speech. Earl MULGRAVE rose to second the Address ; but had not uttered half a sentence, when The Duke of BUCKINGHAM expressed his wish that the Address shou ld be read b y the Lord Chan cellor. Some Noble Lords exclaimed " No, no !" and others, " Read, read !" The LORD CHANCELLOR expressed his readiness to read the Address, and was proceeding to read it, but Lord ELLENBOROUGH observed, that the N o w, Duke's motion was irregular in its form, as the proposed Address ought to have been in the third person, not the first. Earl GREY said, that as the Address, if carried, would he referred to a Committee, that was a matter of little im portance. • Lord ELLENBOROUGH maintained that there w as a deviation from the ordinary practice. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY said, that undoubtedly the motion ought to be, " That an humble Address," &c. ; and then that it should be referred to a Committee to prepare the Address itself motion for the The Earl of ELDON obser ved, that the Address ought certainly to be in the third person. The LORD CHANCELLOR did not rise to discus, the matter, about which be seas really i g norant, and on which he wanted instruction. As there ,sFeLued to be,a A„,ff-/ /a , 4e Eih- t JU:ISE '22, 1831. systetn .of the country ; and with reterence to that he could not 'h e lp adverting to the very disinterested conduct , f the ruble Duke, who, at a great sacrifice of personal I and larillly interests, WV the e .alous supportur of Reform. It was in itelf a great ar4urrient in Cavort" of Reform, that th e first Nobleman in the land was a strenuous suppott-r of the measure, and that Nobleman : being one who would never viOlate his conscience to gain his pro Per situation in that House, and wire never woiild act in opposition to its lietateseven if the consequence should be the loss of the situation, which he had at last attained. He would now proceed to consider the several points of .the Address. He most cordially echoed the congratulation' 6.. his Majesty's Speech iio,the presuvation of peace. The success which had hitherto attendcd the. exertions of his Majesty's Mini sters waf;in all probability, greatly to be attributed to the eiecua4oce that they were well known to have been always the strenuous and consistent advocates of peace, when priket could be preserved in consistency with the ho nour of the country. As for the Belgian question he fully 4 concurred i e principle of non-interference recognised by the Speec dthe Address; and he also concurred in what,ln on rew, might be considered as an exception to the ratle,; namely, in the interference, so far as the settle ment the_itrnal affairs of 13elaium might be connected witl 111 fer6sta_of other Powers. He did neat think a' FMinisters of'Vngland would venture to interfrre in the internal affairs of other countries beyond the limits which he had mentioned ; but yet he could not help con .sidering it a fortunate circumstance that the conferences were not conducted, on the part of this country, by those who, while they commended the principle of non-inter ference, in the same breath pronounced judgment on the question at issue. The part of the Speech relating to this subject was in these terms :—",The principle on which these conferences has been conducted has been that of non interference with the right of the people of Belgium to regulate their own internal affairs„ and to re-establish their own Government according to their own views of what might be most conducive to their welfare and independence, on the sole condition Sanctioned by the practice of nations, and the principles of public law, that in the exerci e of of that undisputed right . the security of neighbouring nations should not he endangered." He concurred both in the general principle and in the condition annexed to it. It might happen that the people of a particular nation, when they came to choose a Sovereign, might choose one so connected with another Power as to endanger the inde pendence of other nations, and this was a case for inter ference. There was a great precedent for this in what was called the war of the Succession, when Louis XIV. laboured to place Philip on the throne of Spain. He wag not prepared to say, however, that there might not be times and circumstances in which even intervention even to that extent might not be inexpedient and unadvisable. Bug the example which he had mentioned at least afforded a distinct precedent for this interference Objections, how ever had been male to any intervention in regard to the question of boundaries. It appeared to him, however, that that question came naturally under the cousideratien in the conferences, and the advantage of its having been taken up by the five Powers was, that the matter might he settled without any recourse to arms. Of all modes of settling a national question, the mode of having recourse to arms was the worst. Ilefote leaving that part of the Speech and Address which related to Belgium, he thought it right to observe, that the character of the distinguished individual spoken of as the future Sovereign of Belgium would afford a strong guarantee for the preservation of peace as far as respected that country. As to Portugal, be congratulated their Lordships and the country that satisfaction had been es promptly rendered as it was de cidedly demanded. He would not at present say anything as to the individual now at the head of the Portuguese Government, and as to the policy of the late Government of that country in relation to Portugal ; he had given his opinion in another place. As to the disturbances in other parts of Europe, he hoped that some means would be found of speedily putting an end to them. There was in one quarter of Europe a struggle going on, which had at tracted-44-se.erertictilar attention of all Europe, awl the deepest sympathy for one of the parties was felt and ex pressed among all classes, not only among those who had the advantage of liberal institutions, but also among those who had not that advantage. Even the Ministers of ab solute Governments could not help expressing their wishes that this protected contest should be terminated in a man ner satisfactory to all parties, and felt and expressed the most unbounded admiration of the excellent conduct of the people to whom he alluded. But it might he inex pedient to say more at present on this interesting topic. As to the revenue, lie thought the statement in the Speech and Address particularly satisfactory. It appeared, that while taxes to the extent of four millions had been taken off, the consequent deficiency in the revenue only amounted to three millions; and this, he was per suaded, would conduce materially to the preservation of tran quillity in the country', and to the increase of the authority of Government. lie gladly took this opportunity of hearing his testimony to the good effect of the policy of Government in the repeal of the duty on coals ; sufficient attention bad not been paid to the influence of cheap coals on the comforts, and even on the manners and domestic habits of the peasantry. The repeal of the beer duty had certainly not yet been attended with all the, beneficial con sequences that had been expected. But for that he blamed nobody. lie extremely regretted the distress which pre vailed in the west of Ireland. The Government had not held out extravagant expectations of relief, or made pro mises which it could not fulfil ; but it had done all in its power, and certainly the crisis had arrived when the pos session of the power to relieve had become synonymous with the duty to exert it. The system in Ireland unfor tunately was, that the peasant was locateil on a small patch of ground, sufficient only for a bare subsistence, and, consequently, when a scarcity occurred, it was to him a state of famine and starvation. He ,vas ashamed twrr' eeaatesoda as the , undue hi: to say that he lied never been in Ireland ; but he had been informed that the condition of the peasantry depended greatly on the character of the landlord, and that great changes were sometimes effected in the condition of the opfeofileelasyndho had peasantry by a change of landlords. He was perfectly aware that there was no small difficulty in producing an effectual aineliiirkagtoiovnerinnedtheascotnileitipoenopolfea been. Still long it was well known that much had beeff done by some individual landlords. He highly approved of the conduct of the Government in repressing the dis turbances which had been occasioned by the dis tressed state of Ireland, by means of the ordinary laws, instead of resorting to extra constitutional means, which ought only to be employed in cases of manifest and urgent necessity. Then, as to the fermi dable malady which was mentioned in the Speech and in the Address, he hoped that it was not probable that it would come into this country. But at the same time, aihdneudeerafu precautionarytll apprehensionliyousalthough l,m these submitted teead ; s utw a or n eo d sfuo itrtdoh the e b r therefore sake ari whichken ecl Ministersoi oenf highly inconvenient tnhiee ng t great ap provedeatadot undue confidence in this respect was as much to be depre ob;erldt:ilbne; view. ts - sanY l'e°P l6, yet he was sure that the inconvenience His Majesty had stated in his Speech the dissolving the last Parliament, which he had undoubtedly o ed n ly iuch dignity and decision. The measure highly expedient, if nutuwnditolu' necessary, for the purpose of ascertaining the o f t he . sense d: ,a n s e question of Reform. He would say nothing on that sub ject for the present, except merely to clear those who were in favour of Reform from some imputation' that had been cast upon them. It h • arl been said that they were guilty of robbery —that theywere overthrowing the Con stitution—and that they evinced a disregard ' order. But representation was given for the benefit of the people, and if, through the change of circumstances produced by ti me , t h e Ho ; did not e of Commons repre sent the people, it becomes the duty of those invested with public trust to restore the representationto its proper con dition. This was not to overthrow the Constitution, but to restore and preserve it. It was utterly inconsistent with the nature and object of representation, to allow it to be vested in the nominees of individuals or small bodies of men. The te • presentation ought to be a real represen tation of the t PenP.e•—(llear hear.) It had been said that the country had • ' • attained a high degree of properity under the old system. But the prosperity was only a coincidence, a n d not an effect of that system. Then , as to the accusat i on robbery, and the depriving individuals aid bodies of of tnen of their property with out compensation—there was a wide distinction between that species of property held solely in trust for the public, and that which more immediately belonged to the individual, It was remarkable c ircumstance, that although R e f orm was opposed a there was hardly an individual who by would a avowetparty, irise y yet there as a thorough Anti-Reformer. What the Reform of these „ on PRICE 7D. Ariti-Reformers was he did not know, but be well knew that their arguttients went to the extent of opposing Re form altogether. They thiid that the possession of the lective franchise was a property which ought to be held inviolate, except in cases where delinquently 17 as proved, end that no places. ought to he disfranchised except the , ,lectors tett convicted of abusing the franchise. But upon that principle 'Vine ought to be disfranchised except the actually guilty. There were ai - nr arguments addressed to the feelings of this House. It was seitli that by an efficient Reform many of their Lordships would be de prived of t6if Vreperty. But then, that was a property which was held - only in gust . for the public, and when it haprened that the trust could not be performed while the pr ipery was in the hands by which it 11%13 sctuali) held, those who were deprived of it in or.ler that it might be placed in th , ..! bands of : those who could and would per f trm the trust, had en reason to complain. Then it was said that there was an individuality of interest in this House fihiCh did not b long to the other—that their Lordships Were hereditary and constant members of the Legislature, and had on individual interest of their own, while the members of the onset House had none but what was derived from their constituents. Undoubtedly their Lordships had a higher interest in the Legislature than the inetobers of the other House ; and it *as an essential ,pant of the Constitution. that they should exist as a per. ieanent and connecting link between the Crown and the people. This was the true anti proper station and .`unction of their Lordships, and of that species of pro perty it was far front the wish of the friends of Reform to dept lee them. But by the principles of the Consti tution the representation in the other Rouse was intended for the benefit of the peoples and to them only the right of sending representatives to Parliament properly belonged. It had been said that the Reform nosy proposed st'as an in vasion of the rights and would prove subversive of the privileges of that House. In his opinion, the best security of the privileges, and the ablest support of their rights, would be found in the restitution of those unjust powers which they had assumed, and which tended so much to de ' tract from that character they should poSSess in the eyes of the great body of the people.—( Hear, hear.) It had been asserted, he knew not with what shadow of reason, that the House of Peers could not preserve its station in the country, unless its battles were fought by its nominees in the other House of Parliament; but he was prepared to contend, when the fitting time arrived fur such a discus sion, that the very worst expedient their Lordships could resort to for the support of their power was that of main taining an army of observation in the House of Commons, and that the continuance of such a practice was calculated to end anger the existence of all the exclusive privileges which they now possessed. He had thus stated his opinions openly and boldly ; but he had not thought it fit at that moment to enter into a consideration of the details of the Reform Bill.—(Cries of " hear," from the Opposition.) He repeated, he had confined himself, intentionally to the prin ciple of Reform. Another and a better opportunity would occur for a consideration of the details, and he certainly was not di-posed to shrink li•oin the discussion.—(Hear.) If he had avoided it expressly on that occasion, it was be cause he knew a better opportunity would present itself, and beenuse he was anxious, if it were possible, not to make use of any argument which might, on the occasion of a reply to his Majesty's Speech, promote unnecessary hostility. Although he must at the same time take :cave to observe, that the spirit manifested at the commencement of the debate had very much diminished any hope of ever getting rid of that hostility which some Noble Lords were disposed to exhibit towards the sup porters of a plan of Reform in the representation of the people. Many years had elapsed since be began to enter tain opinions favourable to Reform ; but many, very many more had passed by since the necessity of such a conces sion was acknowledged by some of the wisest and most patriotic men in the country. Lord Bacon bad observed, that time was a great Reformer; but he had omitted to mention another peculiar property which it possessed.— Tittle was also an unsparing creditor, and . exacted all it could demand with the - rigid scrupulousness of the usurer. Those short-sighted men who obstinately set themselves against all Reform were little aware of the compound in terest which would be exacted from them by time, and of the great ar•rear of interest it would be finally compelled to account for, when the long and often-demanded debt came to he discharged.—(Hear, hear.) In the early days and dark aces of the history of this country, the Barons of England bad nobly stepped in to support the rights and liberties of the people, when they had neither the sense to understand their rights, nor the power to obtain them.— He trusted it would not be lett for their age and their time to say that the descendants of those Barons laboured to maintain unjust privileges and to defend unjust claims at the expence of the people, whose rights they had then so nobly asserted. When the Reform Bill came before that House, he was convinced that it would be found that its provisions were compatible with the rights and privileges of that House, and of the just and natural liberties of the people. Satisfied that his Majesty's Government was pur suing a course at once politic and constitutional, he bad felt it his duty to second the Address moved by the Noble Duke (Norfolk), and he concluded by thanking their Lord ships for the attention with which they had favoured him. The Earl of WINCHILSEA, before he addressed their Lordships on the question then before them, felt it his duty to state, and hoped the House would favour him with their indulgence when he did so, why it was that he rose on that (the Opposition) side of the House, arid why it was that he had withdrawn that support which he desired to afford to his Majesty's present Administration. In stating the grounds which influenced him in withdrawing his support from the Noble Earl, and from those profes sing what are called Whig principles, but which he was now convinced were opposed to the best interests of the country, he begged to be understood as entertaining the greatest respect for the Noble Earl at the head of that Government, who had through a long political life pre served his political consistency, and supported his political character with a grace and earnestness which belonged to few. In making this declaration, and in stating the grounds on which he was compelled to withdraw his sup port from the: Administration of the Noble Earl, he was influenced by no opinien that his support or hostility could be of any great consequence to any one holding the high situation of the Noble Earl in that House. He wall well aware that the slight public and political weight which be possessed, either in that House or in the country, arose not from his talent, but from his reputa tion for honesty.—(Hear, hear.) It was on that reputa tion, and on his character for consistency, that lie was well aware all his power and influence depended. On that, he was now as ever prepared to stand or fall, and he thought he should be wanting to himself, to his station, and to a sense of public opinion, if he refrained now from declar ing the reasons which induced him to withdraw that sup port he h id tendered to the Administration of which the Noble Earl was the head.—(Hear.) His opposition to the Government was not founded on their proceedings with re spect to Reform—years ago lie had stated his opinion on that question, and declared himself favourable tto it: It was not, therefore, the Reform Bill which had changed his opinions, although, when that Bill was introduced into the other House, and its details became known, he had L an or d d th op es p e os p i a te r , ts th h a e t N h v e oul d d is o a p p - - p;vorrosietiteednoTifili:leeatrtotesprin't)oifotanhaNthe expressed then he still enter tained. To the principle of the Bill he was friendly, but there were parts of it which, after the best considera tion, he was still determined to oppose. His change of feeling was not, therefore, to be attributed to this, but he would honestly and fairly say, that he per ceived the differences said to have once existed be tween Whigs and Tories were not wholly at an end. He would honestly say, that after the passing of those two great measures—the Repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, and of the Roman Catholic Disabilities—he had thought that all distinctions of Whig and Tory ceased to exist, and that, having both professed themselves anxious for the maintenance of the Constitution, they were now thoroughly united in their desire to support it. He had thought that all parties were now actuated by one mind, namely, the best means of upholding the honour, and interests, and prosperity of the country ; and that no difference of broad political principle continued to exist. He found, however, that one party were now advocating a measure which the other declared would, if conceded, end in the subversion of the equilibrium of the three powers in that Constitution which was now the envy and admiration of surrounding nations. This was one great distinction. The next was that the great body of that party which was now in powe • had lost no opportunity of advocating every measure whit's would have the effect of destroying the connection betwten the Church and the State.—(Loud cries of." hear.") A connection which, in his humble opinion, formed the ground of that great superiority of moral character for ~.. de -,•, i-v•I 2,41; ~•••••••,- . .... 0 , ,,A, , ._ , 0 - "" - -- ,7 , 'i ''.f .„,„.I.rif;; * • ~ f4'; •. \ :,‘'t . OP faVit ._, dti ;g ‘, - '`....':,... .' s 1 ,---'-',-•- 1 ,-i -- •-•-' -1 -,- ~ • I Ad_ J , 17 . ‘;'" ,, e ., ---. ' 7 -.., ." 1 1 :4 .",, ~ 4 ..er, A , . '7.44 ...." 44 , ~.,/ - - e's. , ,,e, •"- "7 - 7,,,,f • ':------ ': ~'"'\ \... ''%. ''',•;, i:, ''''' • -!--- ... 4 -' ''' ' ... l. 7' , :61,' '<'4\ . , :i. -•-• '' .1. . ' ' , 1 Vil 441 . i --- , ~- • ` 4 I'Ef' - ' ' ~- -.1-11 '4 , \ ..).t , . .-- ,; ~:- 44 /,. - ' 4 '•_._,.‘ -.-. ,ti f h v - '',,f‘''''‘`.; f) f " - '' it -,, ,> .-' 7g -/ r ''' •,--- 'N -`-'. a, - p J .- w, ,,, ,=.r ., 1 - 1 - ' ~,., !, At tir. ~Ji -i) -• ......,......., L '-_, -- ...t,1 , • ~, ..t flie l :. ' Nl4O • . '101; •11,,,-r,d LONDON, WEDNESDAY EV treat diversity of opinion on the subject, he was appre hensive that if lie recommenced reacting the Address, he again he stopped. Ate email tee no practical in. convenience frsm his being allowed to read the Addres, in the form in Which it bad h•ien ptit into hit bands._ Was it the pleasure of the House that he shonlead the Address? Lord ROLLE observed, that if the Address 'were so pro. posed, no amendment to it could be made in proper terms. Lord ELLENBOROVGH maintained the indispensible necessity of adhering to the forms of the House, and of propsing the motion in the third person. Earl GREY must say that a more unprofitable discus. sion he bad never listened to. He allowed that, in strict accuracy, the motion ought to have been, not " Nis Majesty's dutiful and loyal subjects," &e•, but " That a dutiful and loyal Address be presented to his Msjesty," & c "BLit what inconvenience could result from the present forM, or how could it preclude the House from referriog the Ad dress to a Committee, he was at a loss to perceive. What ever error therewas, it was attributable tobis own inadvert ence. Not thinking there was coy difference one way Of the other, be had recommended the present shape of the Address to his Noble Friend. If the Noble Lord could state pray practical inconvenience, any. injury to'tile privi leges and functions of their_ 'Lordships; Which would. it7tidopllon of die es mt &O m, .it would be another . matter ; but, otherwise, be put it to the character of the Noble Lord, and still more emphatically to the character of-the Illuse, whether it - was expedient to delay the consi &ration of the great question before them for a mere paint of form. lie hoped, therefore, that his Noble and Learned Friend would be allowed to read the Address in its prcs( nt shape. Lord ELLENBOROUGH deeply regretted the necessity of the present di , cussion. He was as anxious as any of their Noble L9rds could be to proceed with the important buiiness of the evening. But he conceived it to be the duty of every Noble Lord to at - Isere to the forms of the House— forms founded in reason, and calcu'ated for the maintenance of their privileges. He had no reason to (lout - it that the Noble Earl had erred on this subject inadvertently. He had no ectibt, also, that it was inadvertence on the part of the Noble E to suffer the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack to commence reading his Majesty's Speech, before their Lordships had considered any other measure. Here were, however, two instances of inadvertence in one evening. From such inadvertence precedeets might be drawn, injurious to the privileges of that House, and therefore injurious to the interests of the country. And the present was certainly not the time when it became the duty of any Peer to allow the privileges of the House to be in the slightest degree diminished. He differed from the Noble Earl as to the importance of the present discussion. He believed considerable inconvenience might result from the Noble Earl's inadvertence. On all former occasions it was usual, in both Houses, to afford two opportu nities for voting—the one on the motion for the Address, the other on the Address as prepared by the Committee. The present form won't' prevent the latter opportunity, as the two propositions would be iden tical. There was no precedent for such a course ; and it might hereafter be rendered injurious to the public interest. Trusting, however, that what had passed would prevent the recurrence of what he believed was simply inadver tence, be would withdraw all opposition to the reading of the Address. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM observed, that another error had occurred in the proceedings which had not hitherto b-en adverted to. The Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack had asked, whether it was their Lord ship,' pleasure that he should read the Address ? Now the Noble Duke by whom it was moved, had a right that it should be read. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE concurred with the Noble Duke, that it was most undoubtedly the duty of the Lord Chancellor, as a matter of course, to read any mo tion made to their Lordships. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the Speaker of that House, alio had no real, but only nominal power, Was y!cailiently pla;ed in ,1 situation of great alifficulty ; having si many masters.-( laugh.) laugh.) When he began to read lie was received with cries of " No no ;" followed by as many cries of " Yes, yes !" It was easy to say that the Address must be read ; but when there was such a diver sity of opinion, he must first ascertain the sense of their Lordships on the subject. He admitted that it , might be pernicious to allow a precedent to be established, although that might be got over, if the terms of the motion, namely, ‘• the words following" were to be altered to " to the following effect ;" and if their Lordships would allow him, as he had no doubt, with their kind indulgence, he should be enabled to do, to read the motion, converting it as he proceeded into the third person. Was that their Lord ships' pleasure ?—(" Re d, read !" and " No, no.") The Earl of CARNARVON observed, that that would not be the Noble Duke's motion. The Noble and Learned Lord could not alter the motion. A NOBLE LORD remarked, that the Noble Duke who made the motion should alter it. Lord HOLLAND said, that his Noble and Learned Friend did not pretend to alter the motion. All that he asked permission to do was, in concert with the Noble Duke, to put the motion in a shape more strictly conso nant to the fot ms of the House. It was undoubtedly more consonant to the usages of the House that the motion for the Address should lie in the third person. Lord FARNHAM certainly thought that it would b e much better to allow the terms of the motion to be changed from the first to the third person. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose, but before he said anythiog, Lord HOLLAND rose to order. If the Address was to be altered, the most proper person to alter it was the Noble Duke who moved it. The Earl of ELDON read from the Journals a prece dent, which he considered applicable to the subject. The Committee might change the phrase but not the sense. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to make the observation which he was about to make, when the Noble Lord opposite called him to order, anti that observation was, that it was most extraordinary that the Noble Lords on the other side of the House should be so ready to blame of me his Noble Friend (Eilenbarough) near him fur being eo o and were order, particular about a point of order , whe n the y the mselves in the raising course objections rse the last o sessionperpetually ostfutile poi calling form. • Lord HOLLAND—In the canons of literary criticism it has been remarked that nothing is so unlike as a simile, and it may perhaps be considered as a canon in Parliamen tary debating, that nothing is so disorderly as a debate upon order—(Hear, hear)—and the Noble Marquis has now carried the discussion to the very climax and summit of disorder. He has contrived in the course of a sentence to violate no less than three orders of the House. He has adverted to what passed in a former debate, in a former Session, and in a former Parliament. If this is permitted by your Lordships to become a common practice, it will destroy all respect for your proceedings.—(Hear, bear.) The Duke of NORFOLK having altered the Address from the first to the third person, handed it to the Lord Chancellor to be read. It was accordingly read by his Lordship, and was as usual an echo of the Speech. The Earl of MULGRAVE rose to second the Address. As to the observation made by the Noble Marquis (Lon donderry), he would, at the risk of incurring the indigna tion of his Noble Friend (Holland) behind him, venture. to call to the recollection of the Noble Marquis, that there was at one time in the course of last session a de gree of disorder in this House, which was by no means calculated to keep up that deference and respect which ought always to be preserved, if possible, for the manner in which the proceedings of their Lordships' House were conducted. He would say no more on that point, but he hoped that the proceeding of this night would not turn out to be only the first symptom of a frivolous and factious opposition to his Majesty's Government.—(Hear, hear.) A% for himself, there were two principles particularly which be had considered it his duty to advocate as far as lay in his power. The one was the principle of religious liberty, or that of putting an end to all civil disabilities depending on difference of creeds. He congratulated their Lordships and the country, that a great Reform in that respect had taken place, the consequence of which was, that the Noble Mover of the Address had that seat among them now which he ought to have had long ago. No one who heard the Noble Duke could fail to sympathise with him, when he made the touching, allusion to his want of practice in Parliamentary speaking, which was the effect of the unjust exclusion, and no one could help deploring the cause of the Noble Duke's embarrassment when so explained. It was a proof that the settlement of the .Catholic question had been delayed too long. The other principle to which he alluded was the great principle of • sfficientitod sostinitial Reform in the represent3tire rolmit this eountry.had been so long distinguished. 7 1 ,- ;reat distinction which prevailed between the pities hat a large portion of them had not set a true value ft I sound Protestant principles; and when they passed the Bill to which he bad just alluded, they were reminded of their important:is. fie would ask their Lordships, how ever, to call to mind the daring and impious attacks which had been levelled at the Throne, the Church, and the llembers of that House.--.(Hear.) Il e was confuleutlfrat o lanzuage of menace or intimidation,- however violent . and incessant, would ever deter their Lordships from pur suing that course which they conscientiously believed to the right one.—(Hear.) But when he saw attacks of this lescription levelled from day to day at our most valued ,astitutione, and urlii , a be saw those attacks countenanced, if he might say. so, even by some Members of their own body, how could he do justice to the principle of. the Noble Ear', or to the measures of his Government , or bow cou'd he avoid connecting these attacks with those prineiples, when be found they had been persisted in, with trimming violence, by those who, for the last two months, had been so zealously advocating the cause of Reform ?—(Hear.j He felt he owed it to himself—'he felt lie owed it to his character, to typoee those who, under the mask of at tempting to correct abuses—abuses which he acknow.. hedged did exist, and which he was as anxious as any man to see removed—were trying to avail themselves of their present measures for the purpose of overthrowing all the no, t venerated institutions of the country, and introducing that degree of anarery and confusion on which they hoped •o erect the Government el a Republic.-.--(Hear, hear.) This was the object these persons. had in yiew, and it was , hrough the means of the course of policy pursued by the Government of the Noble Earl that they hoped to be able to accomplish it.—(flear, hear.) While he was on this part of the subject, he could not avoid referring to one act of the Government which deserved the severest censure. Ile hazarded no observation with resuect to the Act of Parliament itself, but he must say, that in allowing the Act to expire before they called'up for judgment one of I the most unprincipled agitators that ever disturbed a country÷Allear) z -they had grossly neglected their duty. _.(He tr.)" It Wis that ,agitator who had instieated the people to 5 , ..t the laws at defiance.—(Hear.) To him was due the greater part of the-miseries of his countrymen. It was to-the language used by hint that the Government now saw the people in rebellion againt its authority.-- (Hear.) They were toll in his Majesty's Speech that these disturbances were unconnected with political causes, but it was well known that the peasantry of the greater part of the South of Ireland were under a regularly orga nised system of obedience to those who, under the pretence of procuring an equalization of civil and religious rights, were desirous of the means of overturning all our present civil and religious institutions. He felt on this subject as a Protestant Nobleman, who was anxious for the support of Protestant principles ; and if he set a high value on those principles, it was because he continued to believe that it was to them the country was indebted for all the ad , vantages it possessed. Having said thus much in defence of his own condnet, he would not detain their Lordships with any observations on the Speech from the Throne further than this, that he was happy to perceive that Mi nisters were determined to abstain from all dictation to the people of other countries with respect to the form of Go vernnent which . they should adopt. He was convinced, indeed, that the more this country kept aloof from all in terference •in the internal affairs of others, so much the better it would be for the people.—(Hear.) Earl GREY could have wished that some,of the N4tble Lords who threatened so violent au opposition at the cow mencement of the debate, would favour the House with a statement of the cause of their objections to the conduct or the measures of the present Government; but as 11011t2 of their Lordships seemed to be disposed to address them, he was compelled, under very considerable disadvantages, to rase thus early in order to Bet himself right in the opi-• nion of the Noble Earl who had just spoken. He had heard, with much pain and anxiety, the grounds stated by the Noble Earl for withdrawing his support from the Go vernment, and he must say that the greater part of those grounds were such as might be said to apply to circum stances and facts over which his Majesty's Government could have no controul ; while, on one of them, he hoped to be able to prove that he was entitled to the Noble Lord's concurrence. The Nt ble Earl commenced by observing that he vvithdreivii:e support because the Government con templated measures whir:: would destroy ' the weight and influence of the House of Pest's in the Legislature of the country. He (Lord Grey) could ltaie•wished much that • the Noble E trl had entered more fully into an explanation of the views on which the opinion that the Government entertained such a design was founded; That it was not 4 e ost ihe e , e -eftetetn questlup was plain, because on that the Noble Earl was agreed with him, and be hoped, therefore, to have his support.—( Hear.) It was then, it seemed, because the Noble Earl had fancied that certain person; (he believed the Noble Earl had gone so far as to designate them as members of that House)—it was because certain persons connected with the Government were suppased to aim at the subversion of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear, from the Duke of Cumberland.) The NobTe Doke cheered that insinuation. Now he (Lord Grey) would he happy to hear how the Noble Duke would support his proposition. lie was not surprised that the Noble Duke should entertain those opinions, for, if he recollected right, the Noble Duke prided himself on his consistency in opposing the present measure of Reform, because he had at all times been hostile to the extension of the rights of the people, or to the improvement of civil and religious liberty. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY rose to order. Ile thought it was scarcely consistent with the rules of that House for the Noble Earl to allude to the supposed opi nions of the Noble Duke, who, as far as he recollected, had never yet uttered a single word to their Lordships on the subject to which the Noble Earl had referred.—(Hear.) Earl GREY admitted that he had, perhaps, expressed himself with too much warmth, but he felt himself called on to repel the charge of hostility to the Constitution, and, come from what quarter it might, he always would repel it.—(Hear.) The Noble Earl said, however, that it was under the mask of Reform that those enemies of the Constitution were carrying on their operations, while he admitted that he was a friend himself to Reform. He (Lord Grey) remembered well that the Noble Earl an nounced himself a convert to Reform, in consequence of the conduct of the two Houses of Parliament. Now sup pose the Noble Earl had then proposed a plan of Reform, would that plan have been less a mask for the designs of the enemies of the Constitution than the Reform propose I by the Government? Would not the Noble Earl have de nounced with indignation those who might have charged him with a design to introduce anarchy and confusion ? He confessed he did not think the Noble Earl's argument very consistent. They had proposed their Reform not to injure the Constitution, but as a principle purely conserva tive. They hail prepared a measure of Reform which would, they hoped, be effectual for the preservation of the rights and privileges of that House and of the Monarchy, and at the same time give satisfaction to the people ; and having succeeded in carrying that Reform into effect, he would say, for himself, that he would yield to no man in the country in a resolute determination to defend the rights of the Crown and that House, because he believed that on their preservation the rights and liberties of the people themselves mainly depended. The Reform which he now proposed was, it was said, according to the prin ciples of the Whigs. He admitted that it was so. He had learned those principles in the school of Mr. Fox, the greatest statesman, as well as the most virtuous politician, the country ever possessed, and whose advice, if it had been attended to, would, he was satisfied, have preserVed this country from all the dangers and difficulties which now assailed it. They were, however, now to consider how the country was to be saved from those dangers, and this measure of Reform was, in his opinion, absolutely necessary for that purpose. He remembered well the sen sation produced by the declaration of the Noble Duke that he was opposed to all Reform whatever ; and when he war. summoned by his Sovereign to undertake the formation of a new Administration, he could assure them it was net with joy he received the commission, for be knew the difficulty of the task, and his inadequacy to fulfil it. He felt, how ever, that he owed a duty to his country and to his Sove reign, who bad so graciously offered him such an honour, and he accepted office on the gracious condescension that he was to be allowed to act in it on his own opinions and principles.—(Hear.) Under no other circumstaneee, indeed, could he have consented to accept it ; and he men tioned this fact, because he believed it was acknowledged by all the members of the late Government, with the exception of the Noble Duke at the head of it, that the time was come when •it became absolutely necessary to make some ceacession to the opinion of the people. With that conviction be -had taken office—with a conviction, which every day new confirmed,• that the desire of the people could not he safely resisted, he had introduced is measure of Reform which was intended not to subvert but to• preserve, not to covet the favour of those who are hostile to the Constitution, but to enable the. Houses of Parliament and the Crown to secure the possession of their own privileges and at the same time to preserve the real liberties - of the people. The Noble Earl bad asserted Reform n .that there were among the supporters. o i c t > ir t i b n" e iwY C thibeuletd•clC'l:srignGlsilarnie'lyd")), was 1:1 etieeed to he the beet Church in the world ; but when :11:01:PIVbie Lord talked of the necessity of all in timat t prh b re a o t tecs H z o u u nr s tc e .t n n o l df e : Eit ti ge b w r . nbuirn. • v ',,