The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-07 00:00:00

SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. The people are everywhere meeting. t express their gratitude to Ministers, and tletermination to support them. The Livery of London meet this day. The re i s a l so a nreseting of the parish of Maryle bone. Several other parishes are moving. In slicer, the movement in the metropolis is universal, and ex- tends to all classes of the population. A petition' from the law students will be presented this evert ing. Gosport has already met, and the address from that place will be presented this day. It is ex pected that the example will be followed * without de lay in Portsmouth. We learn from Birmieglaaan that all parties—Tories, Whigs, and Usaiee. members —are cordially uniting to convene R meeting of the town and its vicinity, " for the purpose of expres sing their cordial and eteteful satisfaction at 'int measures proposed by 'llia Majesty's The requisition is already signed by I'M lteading in habitants, bankers, merchants, &ce, :sea the meeting will probably be held on Wednesday. Bilston, Wolverhampton, Dudley, &c. are also movines to Yorkshire the feeling is the same. The Leeds Mercury, of Saturday, says—" 'The Reformers in this part of the ICingdont are both surprised and delighted with the plan—it meets Ostia most cordial approbation—and they will imp- port, by every constitutional exercise of their influence, both the measure itself arid the Ad ministration by whom it is brought forward," The same paper adds," We trust that the Reformers will, as one man, support the only reforming Ad ministration that England has ever had." We may confidently nssert that tto measure ever united so extensively the suffrages of all classes of the eopule. tion as the Ministerial plan of Reform. That among Reformers there are some who think that the Reform ought to be more extensive, cars sur prise no one; for it was knoevn, before this measure was proposed, that Reformers, how ever much they agreed in disapproving of the ex isting state of the representation, were by no means agreed as to the extent to which Reform ottght to be carried. But we conscientiously believe that the Reformers, with few exceptions, are quite satisfied with the present measure. It was well observed by the Lord Advocate on Friday night, that " renatair able Reform will not satisfy the unreasonable, but it will satisfy the reasonable. And tithe will deny, I that if you satisfy the reasonable, and induce them to unite with you, you will not be better able to deal with the unreasonable ?" Ministers have onle to be true to themselves, and the measure must besic ceasful. A hand will not be raised against the mea sure throughout the country. Even Sir Robert Peel, though he carps at the plan, and rantingly laments the disfranchisement of future generations of potwallopers, cautiously keeps aloof lleim the anti-reformers, who are loud in their execrations against him. In the present disposition of the nation, no Ministry hostile to Reform could stand their ground a single day. The attempt even to carry on the affairs of the country with such a 'Mi nistry, would necessarily lead to consequences, to prevent which every lover of peace and order, every good citizen interested in his country's welfare, ought strenuously to exert himself, by making such a demonstration in favour of Ministers, as shall not allow their opponents to entertain the slightest hope of success in their schemes. While we hold as ridiculous in the extreme the pre tended alarm of those who make the declaration of some Reformers, that they will make the present measure the stepping-stone for obtaining more, we cannot at the same time too much caution all Ain eere Reformers against the use of language like this. The Ministerial plan of Reform, if it become law, will either ensure to us the benefit of good govern ment, or it will not. If it ensure to us good govern ment, it will continue to satisfy us for ever as it ma defies us now. If it do not ensure to us good go vernment, if the favourable anticipations which lead men at present to be so generally contented with it, ate not realised, who is there who in such a case would wish every person to remain satisfied with it any lo,nger? The reason why the plan has been so generally well received is, that it promises to remedy the defects which prevent our present institutions from allowing Ili to enjoy the benefit of good go vernment. The measure deserves, therefore, the acceptance of the nation simpliciter as conservative, and indispensable for the preservation of all that is not noxious in our old institutions. If the plan, therefore, work well, as it is believed it will, the at tachment of the nation will ensure its continuance. The institutions of a country cannot be altered with out the consent of the inhabitants. It is because all classes of the people are disettiafied with the present state of the representation, that Ministers have been obliged to propose a Reform. If they had been sa tisfied, Ministers would not have proposed an altera tion, and if they had, the nation would not have sup ported them. If the nation remain satisfied with this plan, it will not be in the power of the dissen tients to make it dissatisfied. We hold, therefore, the apprehensions that the present plan will 'eel to further demands, as entitled to little attention. It does not follow, that because all men are willing to go as fir as Ministers propose to go, all men will go as far as some people wish to go. Had Ministers proposed to go farther, they would not have been able to go so far as they have done. All agree that the present plan is an improvement ; the most ex tensive Reformer takes it, and the moderate Re former takes it : but the latter wculd not have taken what would have gratified the formere—ellorn.Chron . During four days of the week just expired, the public has watched with the deepest interest, and without any symptom of chagrin or disappointment, the progress of those discussions in the House of Commons which have followed the announcement of the great measure of Reform on the part of his Majesty's Ministers. Speaking of the absence of uneasiness or disappointment (we might improve the phrase by substituting gradual disappearance, for entire absence), as the debate proceeded, we draw our impression from all that has met our eyes, or been communicated to us in conversation, or by writing—in town, and from the country—by rich and poor—by individuals and through the press— from unanimous resolutions of public meetings already held,—from the cordial eagerness with which snore in all quarters are summoned,—that the pro gress of the debate, as well as the admirable wisdom and virtue of that proposed Bill which is the subject of it, has quieted every fear, excusable at the outset, in a people distrustful of all solid redress for inveterate grievances, that the measure would not be in itself complete, or that its passage through an unreformed Parliament might be successfully impeded. If any honest doubts had been entertained as to the neces sity and value of such a Reform, we would turn for the solution of them, not so much to the argu ments of those who support the Bill, as to the speeches of their adversaries, and to the description of places which they represent. To begin with the latter circumstance, as being the least important, and the most speedily disposed of, we may remark. that about 21 young lords and gentlemen have got up in the House of Conemona to oppose the Reform Bill; and that of these not less than 16 are mem bers for that very class of boroughs which the Bill is about to disfranchise. Of the five remaining cham pions of the present system, one is Lord Lerman Gower, a Membe r of the last anti-Reform Admi nistration, who returns himself for his •wn Scotch county of Sutherland, to be opened by the present p l ait ;—a second is the renowned Sir R. Inglis ;— the third is his friend Mr. Hart of Bristol, as well known during the last war as he Davis,s now ; —nex. com es Mr. William Duncombe, retur ne d fur York shire at the late election, only because there was a general inclination in that great county to avoid a contest, but a personage who perfectly understands that he will be returned no mote;—and, filially, Mr. Wynn, who had been a Cabinet Minister under a former Government, and whose sole argument agains t the Bill—that is, against the only part of it which he did disapprove of, namely, the disfranchisement of so many close boroughs—was his belief that in that , respect it went " too far ; but for that belief the Right Hon. Gentleman did not assign a reason. So much for' 'the Parliamentary mulhorilies which have appeared in opposition to this vast and enlightened measure of national relief, security and advance- , ment. When we consider the alleged rottnds such opposition, it is not too much t o decla'ie, as we do moat consciention'Sly, atr ernaiement at their fal lacy, and their almost ludicrous weakness, at least in so far as linty regard the principle of the propoSed Reform. It gives one no sthall comfrirt to obnel ye, that the broad objection to 'the Biil—so broad, in deed, as to surpass tl:r. i.tounds offdistinet and accu • rate comprea....sion—is its" revolutionary tendency." tMs point we, in the main, agree with Mr. Jef frey, Lord Advocate of Scotland; 1 :n 'nis view of the progress of those so.:itl'Aanges through which an advancing ficriitle at length out-grow their insti tution'. Vi'e agree that as intelligence is diffused, 'must political power; and that as a Cnrztittttibti well fitted to the age of Elin.the ir, Might not fully embrace the wants of !Gtiti, !neither can the provi sions for pt.d.lic, liberty, secured to the subject at thtt latter celebrated period, be rronottnseed, On the mere dictum of a tnemi;er of our ex isting Aristocr a cy, a sufficient satisfaction of the just desire! en',:e'rtained by the bulk of the people of psf,t_and in 1830, or an adequate protection of their more complex interes's. The te_'.th is, that a real revolution has fur 40 ytte.l-s 'oeen pervading and exciting tine v•lY:ki.*- Mans of society in Great Britain. The eo..:ntry has meditated its own wrongs until it v/iii no longer endure them. It will not be en slaved, whatever the Duke of Wellington tooy fancy, by a class, or rather a few individualn of a class, having views and objetts separate from those of the nation, anti hostile to them : it will not suffer these selfish and domineering grandees to dragoon it first, that they tnav afterwards plunder it, and to perpe toate the tyranny, that they may accumulate more plunder. The inward revolution in coOiplete, it con sists in the vast spread or knowledge, and conse quent multipl!tnttiOn among the people, of tastes, and enjoyments, and nee, slities, unknown to their ancestors : the indulgence of these they insist on having secured to themselves, and not henceforth cucroached upon, or endangered by the wealthier classes. Whet has for many years been abstract edly right, Las now become politically unavoidable. They demand that the subs:antial and internal I revolution shall have its outward and visible type. This it is which constitutes the present emergency—and which will, as sure as spring follows winter—crush all opposition to a reform of Parliament. Mr. Stanley, in his able aid prompt re ply to an abrupt question of Sir R. Peel, as to the com parison between the revolutionary settlement of 1608 and the measure now contemplated, well characterised the difference between them by stating that the revolution of 1088 was the work of a convention, not of a Parliament, " brought about by the assistance of foreign troops, and perfected without the consent of one estate of the realm," whereas this, when carried, will have had the formal sanc tion of all the authorities recognized by the existing Con stitution. The Duke of Wellington asks the King's Mi nisters to inform him " how they are to carry on the Go vernment of this monarchical country, after the passing of such a law." His Grace unquestionably points to the disfranchisement of the close boroughs, as being that fea ture of the new Reform which may be incompatible with the conduct of a monarchical Government. How then do the close boroughs act? Are the patrons of these boroughs men of such generous and elevated loyalty as to become, in their own persons, or command their nomi ne,s to become, gratuitous champions in all cases of the pre rogative of the Crown—volunteer supporters at all times of the executive government—without reward or stipulation ? This, no doubt, his Grace, has had too longexperienceof the domestic administration of England to affirm. It need not be brought to the Duke of Wellington's recollection, that borough patrons are as apt as other people to require a quid pro quo—that they are too conscious of their own weight and value to make a present of their services or of the votes which they can influence ;rand therefore that their const:nt language to the Minister is—" There are three, four, or five, of us, hanging together like one ma. You will therefore be pleased to intimate what price you will pay for our support to your Cabinet measures." The Noble Lord, or whoever happens to he at the head of the Government, answers, of course, in the usual manner, by agreeing to liberal terms with the patriotic boroughmonger, and promises that, on condition of a full and unflinching support, certain places, ponsi,ns, contracts, or other gra tifications, at borne or in the colonies, shall be at his service to distribute among his relatives or dependents. 'lbis is the whole craft and mystery of the support derived by " monarchical Government" from the borough system. What then, in plain English is that system ? It is one which upholds the power of governing the nation through a force not acknowledged by them, nor known to the law of England,—an army of political mer cenaries, paid by the Crown with money extorted from the people. The bayonet would be a better instrument than this. There would be more honesty in it : there would he less extravagance. The principle of government disclosed by the Duke of Wellington is neither more nor less than that of a monarchy, mixed in its name, but in its nature and operation absolute : its secret movement screened by the forms of a representative legislature, but rendering the evils of practical despotism more burdensome by the multiplication of bribes,—more odious by the mask of hypocrisy,—and more ruinous to public spirit by an admixture of gross and degrading corruption. By those who take a less stern and intractable position than this military chief, it is asserted that many men of ability are introduced into Parliament by the patrons of close bo roughs, u ho might otherwise be left in obseurity. This assertion has been a thousand times repeated, and must not be wholly overlooked. Why do men of ability become Members for close boroughs? Is it that they may benefit the nation? Is it the purpose of a borough patron to bring in men who will in all cases give independent votes ?—men who will in all cases—nay, or in any case—vote against the inclinations of the patron who returns them ? No toriously- he does not. The borough patron either sells his seat to a rich man for his 4,000/., 5,000/., or 6,000/., as the case may be, or to the poor man for his personal ser vices, nr puts in a relative for whom he wishes to provide. Does the rich man who buys a eeat munificently fling away 5,0001. for the good of the nation ? No; in nine teen instances out of twenty he jobs his vote, and being pro tempera his own patron, he bargains with a Minister on the sanie principle as a wholesale boroughmonger would for his half dozen seats. He is in no degree re sponsible to the people, for whom, or frequently against whom, he legislates. After a couple of sessions he is ap pointed to a place, accepts the Chiltern Hundreds, and makes way for some similar successor, from whom the bo rough patron pockets a second 4,0001. or 5,0001. Then the men of talent,—the adventurer gifted with the power of Parliament iry speaking,—what becomes of him'' Does he employ his abilities for the public good? Is he a free agent ? Ask Sir T.Dertmen, who drew such a picture on Wednesday evening of the thraldom in which a borough nominee, if brought in as a man of talent (that is, without paying money ' for the seat), is held, and the intolerable burden inflicted by such conscious humiliation on any man of spirit and sensibility. But the fact is, that if half-a-dozen indivi duals are made . Members for close bon oughs in the course of twenty years (and the proportion is little more), because of their reputation for ability, and if they afterwards prove that the reputation was not unmerited, how many lion ,fred dandy blockheads are thrust in by their noble rela tives or patrons who possess borough interest, with no ob ject under Heaven, but to establish for them certain claims upon the Government to advancement in their profes sions, or to vacant offices---diplomatic, financial, or colo nial—in the several departments through which the busi ness of the country is mismansged, and at an enormous cost ! Of men of this description there are at least forty, for each of those vaunted men of talent, whose admission to Parliament through the dirty back door of a close bo rough is regarded as a purification of the whole vile sys tem from its foulness. Now, of the above two classes, we maintain, in defence of the projected measure of Reform, that the bulk of men of ability will find various other means of acquiring reputation, and recommending themselves to the suffrages of their countrymen, —more honourable and useful methods, too, than by scraping acquaintance with some borough Lord ; while it is equally certain and consoling, that from the disgrace en tailed upon us by the preaenee in Parliament of the noo dles and puppies, the raff arid scum of fashionable families, who have 710 talent, no intellect, no capacity of being useful, no moral or political efficiency about them, —who are at this moment void of all pretence to be Legislators but the countenance of some horoughmongering parent or connexion,—from the nuisance, we repeat, of Laving such animals to make laws for us, we shall he everlastingly re lieved. Persons of so useless a quality could never force their way into any assembly, the right of entrance to which ( ""t be ,established by the public voice, electing them in ifire them to other candidates. The incorrigible portion , f ham will retreat to drawing-rooms, gaming -houses, or gables, scenes more adopted to their acquirements and tastes. Representatives of the people they never were, nor atilt they hereafter pretend to be. In the destruction of the close borough system, therefore, we say, as a reply to the Duke of Wellington, that the people of England, who have a respect for monarchy aitd who love their King, oil! be s'ecfire of shell a controtil over the AdminiStratibn as must greatly improve, and therefore strengthen, their " monarchical goverihnent ;" and, in ansiver to the borough, ailvo .aces in the House of Commons, we assert,— ~ .1 . . :That I;nct4 of siirth 7ind ability will be sought after by, the •o h'. to b:tiicircounsellors and the protectors of their rights .1 Parliament, with as much diligence and success as they now are by patron-lords; for purposes far less respectable. tt. That imbecile and insignificant coxcombs, who have hi therto been accustomed to fall asleep ott the baosbenches, or employed to cough and tsrottly tio,rn men of such eminence as the Lord of Scotland, for speaking wisdom , which the y ttyrl.':(l not comprehend, will be extinct for ever. 3. That the steerage standard of ability and charact er, as well as independence, in the House of Commons, will be raised be yond all comparison with preceding times. 4. That the highest Aristocracy themselves be diiVen to a more uniform and manly eultivatiohiff their inteilcatial powers; and to a morc ett,t't Wstv% - ance of those severer laws of decency ann Pa tae \althea's:lt a becoMing regard to which it IS happily piASible for any man in an enlightened rontmunity to enjoy re - - spect or confidence. The breaking up of the Aristocratic mono poly will thus hate the ordinary good effect of intprsoving the article -which its Members deal, as a political portion of the coinmonwealtff We have next to consider a few of the leading prin ciples of that representative system which is to be substi tuted for the corrupt and oppressive dominion of the boroughs, and to see how far it me , its the 'aide of " revo. lutionary," in. the. twits'twits''in which that term has b een ap pliSa: 16 it by those who, for lack of argument, betake themselves to nicknames. The country has for years com plained, not merely that places without inhabitants —that stone walls and green sods—had the privilege of sending Nleinbers to Parliament, but that great towns containing hundreds of thousands, of the most industrious, affluent, and instructed population of the empire, had no means of access to the House of Commons except through peti tions, brought, perhaps, under the notice of the House by the compassion of Hon. Gentlemen who sat for some of the former class of places ;—that, in fact, these vast em poria of wealth and greatness had no re presentatives, while many individuals in different parts of England, had each of them from one to five or six representatives of their own persons, no less empowered under the existing law to legislate for the whole United Kingdom than are the Members for Yorkshire or .Middlesex. We have heard the above grievance frequently and publicly termed an unconstitutional grievance—odious, dangerous—tending to the subversions of the monarchy, from which it estranged such an immense portion of the most valuable class of Englishmen, as well by depriving them of the benefits of a free and representative Govern ment, as, by permitting others, few and insignificant, as compared with the inhabitants of even one large town, to usurp those rights from which the great masses of corn mercial population were unjustly, but pertinaciously, ex cluded. On the other hand, we never yet heard it insi nuated, that they who murmured at the monopoly of re presentation enjoyed by the paltry rotten boroughs, or at the exclusion from every share of it, inflicted on the powerful manufacturing and trading communities, had betrayed a revolutionary spirit. So much otherwise, that the real revolutionary change was that which debarred the people of England of the ritht of watching over their own interests, and returning their own Members to Par liament, while it transferred that vital power to indivi duals who had none but selfish objects to promote, and who did, in truth, promote such objects, by compelling the Minister of the day to rob the people for their benefit. There never was effrontery like that of vilifying a return to the wholesome principles of the Constitution as if it were a step towards revolution. The men who sound this parrot-note must agree with the Duke of Wellington, that there is no property in England worth preferring but borough pro perty, and nothing in the Constitution but Ministerial power. And what sort of ‘• revolution" is it that they charge upon the present Bill? A Jacobin one, of course, —a sans-culotte revolution ! From a set of men who may, for aught the public or any one but the parties con cerned can tell, be composed, in a large proportion of fo reign Jews, or Frenchmen, Portuguese, Russians, Nabobs of the Carnatic, or what you please,—of any people, black, white, or mulatto, who can muster 50,000/. a piece for the purchase of places like Gatton or Old Sarum,—from such strangers to England, or possible enemies, the pro posed measure takes away the monstrous privilege of lilting into high authority over the people of this country 168 le gislators : that is to say, it releases us from the gripe of that number of domestic tyrants, not responsible to the nation, but to a power having no sympathy with the na tion, for the mode in which their enormous prerogatives may be exercised. Is that a revolution which Englishmen have just reason to dread ? What next ? The same measure which strips the unallowed plunderer of his_ spoils, restores them to the rightful owner. It gives to the people that which they ought long since to have enjoyed,—the power of choosing their own representatives, instead of being preyed upon soil tormented by those whom they never would hare chosen. And to what orders or bodies of the popu lation dots this jacebinical Reform extend the right of electing their own Members ? To their paupers ? the day labourers? frame-breakers? barn-burners? No such thing—the substantial yeomanry throughout England the copyholders of 101. per annum and upwards, hitherto excluded by a contemptible fiction from the same benefits which 40s. freeholders and pot-wollopers, not worth O. in the world had already possessed for ages ; the leaseholders for 21 years, paying 501. per annum rent and upwards,—such are the sans culottes about to trample on church and state, and lass' and liberty, and to realize iu slang gibberish " the horrors of a French revolution !" Why, if ever there was devised by statesman a measure con serrative and protective,—a measure by which property iu its most wholesome, extensive, legitimate, and least invidious forms, could be said to have the reins of government placed in its own grasp ;—if ever there existed a scheme of policy, by which whatever is most fixed And stable in so ciety was trebly armed against all that is irregular and loose, that scheme has been exhihited ha the present Bill of Reform. What ! when 500,000 men of property, en titlirg them to all the rights and respect of citizens, have been heretofore outcasts from the Constitution, and are now drawn within its more hospitable precincts, are we to be told that the law which works this all-hut-miracle of beneficence, is one rather of risk than of preservation ? Is there no comfort in the assurance that we have half a million more of brave, intelligent, and high-spirited bre thren, co-operating with us for the common security and la pose ? The towns, including the eight new votes fir the immediate vicinage of the metropolis, obtain an addi tion of 42 representatives. The counties balance it by an augmentation of 55. But the landed interest, thus re inforced in the counties, has lost, in a yet wider proportion by the extinction of the 168 borough votes, of which per haps three-fourths, at least, may be considered as apper taining to the same landed interest. And here a fair reply suggests itself to the dexterous imputations of Mr. Croker as to the apparently unequal manner in which the elective right has been distributed by the plan of Lord John Russell. " Halifax, Huddersfield, and some other places," says the Right Hon. Gentleman, " are not to have more than one representative allowed them, while towns of inferior population are to retain both their Members." True; boroughs of certain population having Members are still permitted to retain them, because the Government does not meddle with rights of any description beyond the necessity of the case. If the question lay between Halifax and Tavistock, which should for the first time ob tain two representatives, Mr. Croker's rule might then be not unreasonably applied. On the same principle it is that potwallopers are suffered every where to enjoy during life their present franchises, although of a class of men the least qualified to discharge a public trust with judgment, integrity, or advantage. For ourselves we heartily re joice to have seen this day, wherein a Government selected under the old vicious system has had courage and wisdom to prepare for the country a redress so absolute, of so many grievances, and a vigorous restorative and renovative for such a mass of diversified decay. When Mr. Pitt proposed his plans of Reform, he, too, was called a revolutionist ; when Mr. Burke proposed his economical Reform, there were those who charged him with a design to obstruct the move ments of " this Monarchical Government." When the Test Act was repeatedly sought to be repealed, " it was a step towards revolution." The relief of Catholics from their civil disabilities was an overthrow of our invaluable Constitution." The Test Act repealed, is no longer thought of but with ridicule, and Catholic emancipation has already saved Ireland front the clutches of real revolts tionists. Yet shall we never cease to hear amendments the most obvious to common sense, thus turned into bug bears by hypocrites or fools. Our cry is,—Concede ! Reform ! while the people are still disposed to receive con evasions with good-will and appreciate their advantages with r eason an d temper . W s i t t ill t h e pass i ons are exc i te d by obstinate inattention to their petitions and contemp tuous disregard of their claims, and then concession, how ever liberal, Reform, however extensive, will, alas, be toe Isle ! Those who deny justice are the real authors of all revolutions.— Times. The course of each night's debate convinces us that the cause of Reform is advancing, and must finally triumph. All those Members who are not prepared to encounter the shame of useless and con victed selfishness, or who do not aspire to the honours of stultification for conscience sake, admit the necessity of moderate Reform. In which class will the Ex-Secretary of the Admiralty choose that we should place him ? Truth and courtesy to the Right HON. Gentleman compel us to include him in the first : he is cunning, rather than wise, in his genetation ; he perfectly know , the value of the cuttom of 80 at Aldebutgh," and of the general pi oprietary borough interests of his patron ; he is most critical, arithmetical, and personal. No one can say that he deals unfairly by others, fur he judges of thein by hithself. Had it been his tusk, as the Member of a Government that had pledged itself to Reform, to contrive the plan, and to adopt the prin ciple, he would at once have said, before he gave his assent, or lent his ingenious hand to the comple tion, " It is all rely well, but how will this plan affect the patron of Aldeburgh ?" It is not am- Pr . sing, the refore, lit! should firmly ktlieve that the applictition of the two great principles of population and property, upon Which the plats of liefolin now under di•cuSsion rest, was fettered and regulated by consideration for the inter. stn of the Marquis of Lansdowne and Lord Fitz\villitm, but so does not any sensible and impartial person in England. The objections made by Mr. Croktr to the arithmetic of the Bill are of no weight. It was quite necessary when rinr:e the principles of property and population had been assumed as the basis of qualification for electors, that some sum should be taken to regulate the one, and some number to detertnine the other ; but certainly it seas im possible to fix either the one or the other with equal fit ness for all localities. There are, unquestionably, many honest friends to Reform who would have preferred a higher qualification, but the practice of large bodies of electors already inherent in representation for counties, and in some populous places, would have made a less ex tended right of voting unpalatable to the middling classes, in compliance with whose petitions, and on whose just demand, it is proposed to reform the abuses in our present system of representation. It is somewhat singular th the opponents of Parliamentary Reform, who proclaim themselves to be the household troops of the Monarchy, should treat Monarchy as if it began and ended in the House of Commons. This plan of Reform, they say, is a change in the Constitution ; i. c. the Constitution does not consist of King, Lords, and Commons, but of the great varieties of franchises and rights of election, under which the Members now sit in the House of Commons. Touch any of these franchises or rights, and away go the King and the House of Lards. This is the dictum of the ex-Secretary to the Admiralty. Wo will yield to no one in love for the Constitutional Monarchy of England, but we do not believe that the beautiful system of social compensations, by which the isterests of the several orders are maintained is regular and accordant movement, de pends upon the obstinate maintenance of the abuses of cor porations, or of burgege, tenures. As soon could we be lieve that the true adtneasurement of time by one of Bar ratters best chronometers was cause I by an accidental flaw on the dial plate. In our opinion the English Constitu tion owes its pre-eminence to the due distribution of po litical power among the orders of the State. The King has prerogative ample to render the Executive authority efficient for all good, but powerless for all evil. The House of Lords possess property enough to make their he reditary privileges, as Members of the Legislature, almost a necessary consequence of their property ; and no circutn stance can shake the general confidence and respect to wards their body, except an obstinate adherence to an illegal and direct interference, however ancient the prac tised abuse, with. the rights of the people to choose their own representatives. Wealth, when united to hereditary rank and knowledge, will not fail to bestow influence in England. We are a monarchical and an aristocratical people, but we are not to he talked out of our rights, or into an adoration of abuses, benefitting a few individuals, at the sacrifice of our national reputation for good sense, by the well-turned common-places of dexterous debater:, or the arithmetical sophistry of the most ingenious poli tical partisan. This is not the first time that fault has been found with the system of representation in Parlia ment; this year is not the first time fault has been found with the delays and expenees of the Court of Chancery ; it was not for the first time, some three years since, tint a Reform was called for in our Crimiud Law ; it was not for the first time, in the year 1529, that Catholic exclu•• sion had been complained of;—no ; all these had been of long standing, but they never could be remedied unless by the King's Government. We indeed feel that it required no ordinary energy, no ordinary disinterestedness, to un dertake the great work of Parliamentary Reform. Par liamentary support was certain in the Reforms proposed in other branches of the Administration ; few Parliamentary interests were affected by those plans of emendation ; but in the present measure the Minister of the Crown knew that every step they incurred the risk of alienating per sonal friends ; that therefore they had nothing to do but to go straightforward to their great object, the satisfaction of the people of England. Let time be given, and we are certain that the opponents of Reform will be driven from resistance—not by the clamours nor the threats of physical force, but the unanimous and resolute expression of the national wish—an expression that we predict will net fail to carry conviction to the mind of Sir Robert Peel, and of all others whose abilities call them to direct and watch over the public weal.—Morning Herald. SECOND EDITION. SUN OFFICE, Seven a' Clock. DI PERI A I'A It LI All ENT THIS EVENING. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAKEK took the Chair precisely at Three o'clock, at which time the gallery was more crowded, if possible, than on any former night during the debate on the mea sure of Heforin. Indeed so great was the crush that it was found necessary to lock all the doors leading to the gallery, and it was with the greatest difficulty that gentlemen connected with the Press could obtain ingress or egress. The seats in the body of the House were as on the former evenings all labelled with the names of the Members. SEAFORTII ELECTION. Colonel DAVIES brought up the Report of the Com mittee on this election, which declared Mr. Ellice, the sit ting Member, duly elected, but that the petition against his return was neither frivolous or vexatious. . . Mr. DAWSON presented a return containing an ac count of the trade between Great Britain and China. A new writ was ordered for the borough of Mi'bourne Port, in the room of the Right Hon. Sturges Bourne, who has accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Mr. HUGHES HUGHES presented a petition from Manchest e r, praying for leave to build and endow churches without leave of the diocesan. Sir ROBERT BATESON presented a number of peti tions from places in Ireland against colonial slavery. Mr. GUEST moved for a return of the number of towns in Wales, containing, in the year 1821, ten thousand inhabitants, and not now returning Members to Pallid men t. —Ordered. Mr. DENISON presented a petition from the pa rish of St. Mary, Newington, which expressed tlse petitioners' greatest gratitude to his Majesty's Mini sters for the plan of Reform which they had intro duced, sad they implored the House to pass the Bill, as they were convinced that the measure had the entire confidence and approbation of all classes. Ile fully con curred in the prayer of the petition. Since Friday last he had had an opportunity of seeing a great number of his constituents, and only one amongst them was opposed to the plan of Reform ; and he merely thought it rather too far.—(llear, hear.)—He (Mr. Denison) returned sincere thanks to Ministers for their wise, manly, and just conduct. Hon. Members on the opposite side of the House might, perhaps, defeat the measure now, but as to defeat feating it in Coto, they might as well try to stop the tides of the ocean.—(Hear, hear.) An Hos. MEMBC/t, whose name we could not learn, said he had a petition to present from the West Riding of Yorkshire, expressing their approbation of the plan of Reform. He had mentioned this, as it was pro bable he should not have an opportunity of pre. serving the petition to the House. Honourable Me►n bers who opposed all plane of Reform, had done much to bring the present measure forward. If they opposed the present measure, he did not know how the Members who represented such places as Gatton and Old Sarum could ever think of offering themselves for a populous town.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. BRISCOE could not let this opportunity pass without offering his mite of gratitude to Ministers for their plan of Reform. lf, as it had been stated, an y danger was likely to arise, the House would bear in mind that the Bill would create 500,000 new electors, who, should any danger be apprehended, would form themselves into a National Guard.—(Hear.) Mr. HART DAVIS said that he had received a letter that morning from Bristol, from which he thought the measure was not received with that approbation which suss mentioned. He hoped, there fore, that Hon. Gentlemen would restrain their ardour until the voice of the country was known. Mr. WARBURTON said the town that he had the honour to represent, although about to >a semi-disfran• chised, bad entrusted him with a petition n which they stated their belief that the measure was caleuleed to pro mote the interests of the country, and prayed the House that it might pass into a law. Mr. LABOUCHERE had also a petition to present Item Taunton in favour of the measure. All classes in that borough had received the plan with the greatest respect and approbation. The petition was then brought up, and ordered to be printed. Mr. PHILLPOTTS presented a petition from a place in Gl ouces tershire, signed by six Magistrates, and a great praying no extension t i i c i e s ns o ' f s. CTLdos, a new Hear, hear.) I n n u i g n; h : nt e i r ) te o hg f e r r al e s tii, t, p )et e di c o t t a lo b y thein t d h i le v 3 i e d i; u ri writ was ordered for the Borough of Hythe, in the room of Sir Philip Sidney, who had accepted the Chiltern Hundreds. Sir T. ACKLAND presented a petition from a place in Devonshire, praying fur Reform and vote by ballot. Mr. BAILEY presented a petition from the Political Union society of Bristol, praying for annual Parliaments, vote by h diet, and universal suffrage.—( hear, hear.) Mr. ADEANE presented a petition from Ely, which stati d that the measure of Parliamentary , Reform had been received with great delight in that part of the country, and that the petitioners were con vinced if carried into a law, it would give security to the town, and insure the confidence of the people in that Hon. House. Now lie fully agreed in the principle of the Bill which he thought sound, but at the same time he must say he thought it went a little too far. —( Hear, hear, hear.) Ile should not oppose the second reading of the Bill, but if it did not undergo con siderable alterations in Committee, it would not be in his power ultimately to support it.—(llear, hear.) Sir C. BURRELL agreed with the Hon. Member who spoke last as to the general principle of the measure, and should vote for the second reading. But he should look with great anxiety as to the provisions and alterations he hoped to see made in Committe,. Sir M. W. RIDLEY had to present a petition agreed to at a meeting of friends of Reform at Newcastle. In the course of a few hours the petition received more than 2,000 signatures.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The petitioners entirely approved of the measures introduced by Ministers, and expressed their opinion that it would give :stability to tl.e throne aad confidence in the House of Conitnons. The moreover stated, that although Radical Reformers, so convinced were they of the advantage of the plan, that they were willing to throw aside vote by b allot, and were of the opinions which they entertained.—(Hear.) He (Sir M. W. Ridley) thought, however, with the Hon. Member that had lately spoken that some alteration was required in the Bill to make it a constitutional Reform.—( Hear.) Sir C. FORBES—Nothing that had been said in the House or out of the House should intimidate him from doing his duty as an independent Member of Parlia ment. He should oppose the Bill ; it was radi cally bad.—(Loud cries of Hear, hear, hear.) The Honourable Member for Preaton had said he would take their plan, and thank Ministers for it, as it was a stepping-stone for the people to get annual Parliaments and universal suffrage. And until they got that, they would never be satisfied. He (Sir C. Forbes) firmly believed thJt such would be the case. Mr. HOPE JOHNSON presented a petition from a place in Statiordsliira, in favour of Reforms Sir J. WROTTESLEY would take that opportunity of informing tke House, that there was another class of peti tioners coming to town, expressing the gratitude of the coun try for the measures proposed by Ministers. He should not have an opportunity of presenting a petitition that was entrusted to him. He would state that it was from the popu lous town of Wolverhampton. It was signed by more than 1,200 inhabitants, who exprossed their opinion that the measure would give the greatest satisfaction to the country. Colonel CHICHESTER presented two petitions from from Wexford, praying for a repeal of the Union Mr. O'CONNELL shortly supported the prayer of the. petition. TAXATION. Lord G. SOMESET presented a petition from Lord ALTHORP was understood to say (but the con fusion arising from the crowded state of the Gallery was so Newport, praying for a reduction of taxation. LORD ALTILORD said the alterationin the Stamps would he made at the time he moved to consolidate great, that it was impossible to catch correctly what fell from the Noble Lord), that it was not the intention of Go vernment to propose any further reduction of the taxes. The HON. 5111318 ER gave notice that it was his inten tion, when the proper time arrived, that the Newspaper stamps should be reduced to a half-penny.—)Hear.) Mr. BULLER said the country telt grateful for the re duction already proposed on Newspaper Stamps, and hoped that Government would go as far as possible in the reduction. The St Duties put at same time, must pass before that could be done, he thought that the reduction could not take place before the sth of July. REFORM MEETINGS, FOR THE PURPOSE OF SUPPORTING HIS MAJESTY'S MINISTERS. The Marquis of CHANDOS, on the order of the day being moved that the House do resume the debate on the Reform Bill, said that he had leave from the Gallant Colonel who was in pos session of the House to bring before attention of the House a subject highly deserving its attention before the gallant Colonel proceeded with the debate. The duty he (the Noble Marquis) felt he had to perform to the country called npon him to bring forward this subject. It was a matter of the deepest regret to him to find that his Majesty's Ministers the friends of the question they were now bringing forward, and so warmly advocating, were not content in themselves advocating that question, but that they were going about the country, using every means in order to intimidate the representatives of the people of the county from the pro per discharge of their duty.—( Hear, hear, hear, from the Opposition side.) He, for one, had to state to the House and to the county that no threat or intimida• tion whatever would ever bias him, or prevent him advo cating that cause which he thought best for the interests of his country.—(Repeated cheers from the Opposition.) Ile scorned those men whet went about with a view to intimidate—he scorned them because they were not worthy of the names they possessed_going about as they were, endeavouring to inflame the minds of the lower orders of society, and if they could nut get their mea sure carried in that House by fair and open means, showing that they were deter:nined to have it carried by physical strength. He called upon his Majesty's Ministers not to allow those meetings to take place and not to allow these proceedings to go on.—(Bear, hear, from the Oppo sition, and loud laughter on the Ministerial side.) He repeated his call on his Majesty's Ministers to inter fere to prevent those meetings, and to prevent, persons going about doing anything to influence Members, and not leaving them honestly as the representatives of the people to discharge their duty consistently with their own views. The particular point to which he wished to call the attention of the House was, that on Saturday last a meeting took place at the Crown and Anchor Tavern, which was supported by Colonel Evans, and on which occasion (as was reported in the Morning Chronicle) that very gallant Colonel expressed himself in these terms :—he heel come from the coast of Sussex, for the purpose of attending the meeting, where two Reform meetings had taken place; and he knew that 10,000 persons were ready to march up from Riegate to London to the support of his Majesty's Ministers if they should be defeated in the measure now before the House.—(Hear, hear.) He begged leave most seriously to call the attention of his Majesty's Minis ters to this speech, and wished to know whether they meant to take any step to repress such language, and as he had said to pot a stop to such meetings. The answer they might give would bias hint, unquestionably in the course he should pursue, being himself at present (as he should do) perfectly at liberty to take that course which in his discretion he should think right. Lord ALTHORP rose and said—l really do not know on what ground it is that the Noble Lord says his Ma jesty's Ministers are inflaming the minds of the people— (Hear, hear, hear, hear)—by exciting a clamour out of doors calculated to disturb the deliberations of this this House; for I can assure the Noble Lord that his Ma jesty's Ministers are doing no such thing. All we wish is that question should be dispassionately and quietly discussed. --(Hear, hear.) We are perfectly well aware that the public feel a very strong and deep interest in this question. (Hear, hear.) And the Noble Lord must know as well as any other Member of this House, that when the people do feel strongly upon a measure, public meetings will take place and violent language will be made use of on those occasions, but certainly his Majesty's Ministers wish only that the question should be discussed on its true merits. --(Loud cheers. )—lf the Noble Lord wishes me to state what course his Majesty's Ministers will take in reference to the speech of Colonel Evans, all I can say is (and the Noble Lord knows that I did not see a report of that speech until I came into this House) that I think it a ' very violent and foolish speech, but that it is not one which I think it becomes the Government to take any proceedings respecting.—(Hear, hear.) —I know very well that taking up questions of this kind, on the ground of a breach of privilege, and 1 do not know that this is a case which could be taken np, on the ground of a breach of privilege—on the contrary, mY ° P ink i i j i b s e , a tha v t er i y t s is tre n n o g t. and lt iiisrgennetcesnsaercye•sstihtyat pre sented i n order to induce the House to act, b e cause i n a the instance in which the House has taken up question§ 05 the ground of breach of privilege, I don't think the WI has henefitted by it.—(Cheers. )_The Noble Lord ha' o t i o that my answer will decide the course which he take. I can only say, that he at perfect Jiber to take whatever course he chooses. 1 can Ost,ul. him it is not the wish of his M ljesty's Ministers that Mire question should be carried by violence and clamou r " °l b feel that nothing could be worse for the cause than I' violence and clamour. t the Sir CHARLES WETHERELL thought tits", t he Noble Lord (the Marquis of Chandos) deserveu .000 gratitude of all who wished well to the discuoling of important matters in that House, in be in g a . this subject before its attention. The Noble Lor d °PP f site had understated his duty as a Alinisfetwil the Crown, iu saying that it was not the . o this q uesti s 9 of his Majesty's Ministers to carry . by clamour and by violence. Ile begged to state that it : c o the duty of his Majesty's Ministers to take care tilar' ' t he such ingredients were infused into the discussion °I measur e . It was their duty to interpose, for the l'bud pew of preventing and stopping such speeches st ,:of been brought before their notice by the Noble b t e behind him. He would take the liberty of stating t° oo s Alajesty's Ministels distinctly that there were P er did in this country in all situations of life, who though th e ? i , ' • ; not believe that his Majesty's Ministers were C01i n . ,', 1 5 % with external attt.nipts to intimidate, yet thought it " - el f principle of duty to interpose to prevent leg moment in which the Government were bound by e l v io t :Hight be created out of doors. He would, to! go the length of saying Ministers were connicl le it agitatate, but he certainly did consider that it was ",i o n duty to adopt proper means for stopping the ag' ts o o that might I .)e. altrond. Not only had persons . 00 of doors resorted to something like threats of intimidlttihe (and which no person could be ignorant of who rea" effusions of the Press), but in that very g r nil ble something of the same sort had been resorted to. The :N fi e j Paymaster who had brought forward this measure ba g ein :bi9 the term convulsion ; and he meant to say, that be measure should not pass, Hon. Members wool it convtalsel.—(Loud laughter, and hear, hear.)....." se was not those who were on his side of the 11° 0 , who were in the lamentable predicament of 3 t ble minority, but those who had used the 1 1: 0 ; were in the minority, as the Ministers would iw be r when they were cast up. The Learned and lion. l‘l en ' t he got into a considerable heat was called to order by no t Speaker, and he concluded by declaring that he 01 ', it 0 , contented with t! e Noble Lord opposite merely sar. nt rot was . not the wish of the Government that these sl ° , ;, e meetings should take place, at which such violent 100,Af was to be used, but that it was their duty authoritati' to ieterfere to prevent them. goo' Lord ALTHORPE would hie as willing as the hp, and Learned Mead er to maintain tee power of tbe,,-0, in preventing any distu.bance or improper conduct tv''),t ever a necessity should present itself; but at presen t saw nave. nl eeti g Sir E. KNATCIIBULL disapproved of the - and of such language; he disapproved also of calling' r o f ties to the bar of that House except in 431,13 t the most urgent necessity, and in the l a ire ct instance recommended his Majesty's Ministers t o , the Attorney-General to take cognizance of what h ad dne. 11A Mr. BENNETT thought it most unhandsome !301 such a change as the pre,ent should be brought for",,,ie against his Majesty's Ministers. Ile was perfectly ';',ere tied that the meetings too place spontaneously, an d ve ri being sent to that House from all quarters front th e best of motives. Alderman WOOD and Mr. COKE also depre t-- t eti the bringing forward of this change ; and the former 00 that at an open hall held in the city of London tt rthe there was the most unanimous feeling in favour 01 measure of his Majesty's Ministers. (LEFT SITTING.) HOUSE OF LORDS. .0 (1 ' The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the shortly alter Five o'clock. Petitions were presented by the Earl of Hart isV from Ely and Cambridge, for the abolition of slaveq:. bf from Wisbeach, in favour of the Local Courts of Lord Stanhope, from a parish in Kent, for the reps of the malt tax, against the tithe system, and complainb4ri distress; by Lord Radnor, in favour of f Parlianl o rlo Reform, from Wake-hill ;by the Archbishop o 'di% against slavery; by Lord King, from Wicklow, Pr a i, e ro for an alteration in the tithe system, and from ee other places to the same effect. PARLIAMEN TARY REFORM. ~„t Lord WHARNCLIFFE said that on Thursday 17e' had given notice of his intention to move on T h , ti ele next for certain returns respecting the population °' 0 j01; rid towns and counties for the purpose of introc! li , that important subject, which occupied the atte on t o At every person in the kingdom at that present motile° ; $ O O the time he did so, he certainly had not a conteloPapil# that the discussion of the subject in another place w ill in the state in which it now was.—(Hear, 1 1,3c * ) tb st therefore thought, under the present circumst ance important question could not now be convenieotly dr or cle r in that House. He should, therefore, withdravf for that day, nor could he fix any precise time on tal e he could bring it forward ; but he must say he W Ou oi ieo ce the earliest opportunity, consistently w ith the COO t ali' of the House, of bringing the question under dis cu i, e o N a Earl GREY observed that the Noble Lor d, In' oss' • I announced his intention the other day, exercise( tbose discretion as to the time when he should move for ot L e , returns—(Hear, hear)—and be (Earl Grey) d'ai%,ooll ject to the course intended tobe pursued by theNnh e.O and he could assure the House that he was nnt -effecP! sirous of postponing the, discussion, as be wa s P - t i o o prepared to enter into the discussion of the (Ilte' the fullest manner—(Hear, hear)—whenever it ntiliob'' fore the House, and whenever it should pleas e the fro' Lord to bring it forward,—(Cheers.) The Duke of SUSSEX presented a peti„t 3 l,oo',,i, Hammersmith, pray'ng for Parliamentary ce t a In doing so, his Royal Highness felt hi al ' e A . for IT upon to say a few words. The petitioners praY e- oiiP i lif by ballot, though that was not the opinion of til e d ', co ti o, ants of that populous district in general. frie b ir not help expressing to the Noble Earl, who presided over the councils of his 103k-iie P o i most hearty thanks for the manner in Wh ich eo brought forward the measure of Reform—(C hee i' o°lo he would assure him when it came forward for d d or in that House, it should meet with his hearty n n support.—(Loud cheers.) fold LUNATICS' BILL. , : ( 14 The LO RD: CHANCELL OR postponed t" e e tit e ( reading of this bill for three werks, in c onsequ e° lfi c ot , contiiined indisposition of Lord Eldon, and th e a ; 1( Lord Londhurst. t he b p t Lord FARNHA3I presented petitions froto inetgl, nd white metal button operatives ( i g r d, f r ,oo of Dublin ; and from several p.rislies in We i. ::,ioo r ing fur the repeal of the Union. Also 1 1 r e i t ,tie°, St. Mary's, Didiln, fur the repeal of the Sugar 01,10 Cin the motion of Lord GGDERICII, I'lloo4 dress was ordered to be presented to his Dlajestl relative to the Swan River. 0 0 1 FRAUDS CREDITORS' BILL . pill On the motion of Lord WYNFORD, t he . 4 through, a Committee, after route ar u e ndinea t4 ; titl o ' .a Thu Consolidated Fund Bill was read a til l ' l c , passed, and the House adj.urned at Six. o'Cl°c ,Al" IMINIIMIIIMININI BIRTHS. f I' ll ' di d 0 „to On the sth inst. in Lincoln's-inn-fields, the lay the man Copeland, of a sou. uf r o lli, On the 4th inst. at Gifford's-hall, county 01 :" cl' t Jo° s o t f r O A e l i t. t :t 3 l ti ce ; j : l i i l , i ne r t i :::::t ; l : l i s :l lq l , l e .h' o l a a r om , f fv 'a a d , i , a s' f a :: : g l Y: l . , tileirialiri2n;f, a E S s ° 7 " .. .; ': 1 :::). s° oitili; On then(' inst. at Acre-lane West . Brixton, alr'' fl iiP of a son. OW' At Oojan, near T a brit, on the 25th if M ee" 0. of Sir 11. \Vinod:, K. E.S., , P ie o$ te rl t;''' 'MARRIED. , of i 5,r c o On the sth inst. Charles Henry Smith, r , " ( l4, te r 0 * ,1,0 1 ',J. with, Glamorganshire, to Emily, fourth chilli' un ty• soil', 0' o f Leeds, Bart., of Olin Clydach, in the same cl . '„,- o ry, ,tile,,J On the sth inst. J. M B. I)urrant, of the and dt r q ,, S. of Ei. in the county of Sussex, to Fanny, , c o ' sec,.., -- '" ,pet 0 f Hubbard, of Stratford, in the county of .-- Tho'„or Egerton, in the county of Kent. ~ 0 00" mr. ( ",1 C , i i:"' On the Ist inst. at St. Botolph, Ahlgate, i, gr. ' 17, 4 0: Stoney Stratford, to Ann, eldest daughter 0 1 ova 0 11,..1.. Aldgate. • c J" ' ce, /3 ,1 ' ts' On the 17th ult. at Dusseldorf, on the 11h 1 0 1, c 'oP daughter of I'. Salomons, Esq. late of St. 1 -I °`„,i - thF Ol e io n gate, London, to August Hassencliever, i•0n,."..0, 01 4... A. ( I ,f la i s i c e i r l g cl , ie it , , .e t r i , ,e o k f i li ng li , r te nLgl ei tu r se r z , i ;ss i i i a t:ar Ite c n a l h c : iii,ri.oos, '. 40 1 , 1 t. :: (P , I- er, On the 3d inst. at St. George's, Bloorusbugr,,,,,rd, o i l: 1 , to Louisa, the third daughter of Luke I.'• 1 f ... 1 1. ,0 1, ford-.quire' - 11 v, l ‘ fr. f V s l Pii . a irl ' On the 3d inst. at St. James's, Piceam . , ,,t, o,. f icr c. .,,, , , eldest son of Mr. F. Milner, lead .,,,,ert, _,,„_ 01 , ft .0, ;00 Emma, daughter of the late Mr. W. liobfro`t;',, (. 1 .,.. t of e ' c 0 1 On the Ist inst. at South Stoneham , waling, of the Royal Artillery, to Elizabt' . ! oil Igen I ,s J.:sq., of Thot nhill, in the county of Ilan" , no , o al MT A. H. Bradley, Esq. of Gore-court, Nu ,• 1. US " ' ~) yO PRINTED AND PUISLISHED BY INlURl,‘"orveg• Sys OFFICR, 112, 5TR•141,9 Fit Lo 4 St t • s i . 11 AlC n hi ever, lr of T4 lti i ~ ` B `~ *an t '