The Sun. — London, England, 1831-12-16 00:00:00

but he would enter upon it hereafter, if the House to a motion for a Committee. According to . system, three modes of recovering their dues to the clergy. The first, which applied to the 101., was by summary process before a inagis- In this way the claim could be awarded at once, difficulty ; but eves the efficacy of this simple Proceeding was defeated by putting in a sham plea. mode was the ecclesiastical mode. That was and burdensome to the tenant, when the tithe • was only a small sum ; and then, after all the and trouble to which a clergyman might he pat, he lg hut a monition, or an admission that the claim , and was compelled to resort to the civil bill pro the quarter sessions. Against this jurisdiction, a might be-entered, similar to that entered under mode; and if such a plea were set up, the supe would immediately issue a prohibition. If, cause was removed to the superior courts, as it both parties to the cause, the clergyman who and the peasant who resisted, the payment were inevitably put to great expense. ?so Id be obtained ; and if the clergyman should . enough to succeed in getting his right in each case, he would still be put to ten times the coat final sum in dispute. The third mode was the the most oppressive and the most efficient. wise one to which he was happy to say that seldom resorted, except in extreme cases, and of great rarity. It was the mode of proceeding equity. Here the main difficulty of the clergy removed, for he could put all who resisted his solvent as well as insolvent, in one hill, and yet this mode he was, though a gainer of his suit, a his pocket. He would not upon this occasion on the patience of the House by offering any ge- Observations on the system of tithes with which in the House, be he Englishman or be he Irish of necessity be conversant. There was no then heard him, who was not aware that the As a tax on labour, and that it was pro Canto a successful industry,—(Hear, hear.) There was 'o, even in England, who did not feel that the tithes was a constant source of litigation and ill deea himself and his parishioners, and that it them both on a footing, from which it was their interest to be relieved—a footing, which was tnfavourable to the proper discharge of those sa lies, which it was the happiness of one to give, other to receive, whenever a right footing was between them. If this were the case in Eng entreated all English and Protestant Members of to consider—he would not ask Irish Members of to state—the grievances which that system naturally engender between a body of Catholic pa and a Protestant incumbent. He would not at this stage of the discussion upon the notice of a description of the endless vexations, the petty the wretched extortions, unsanctioned by the which, in the exercise of his functions, were perpetrated by the tithe proctor. He would through a more pleasing duty, and would give to at Hon. Member for the University of Cambridge eredit for the Bill which he had introduced upon st—a Bill which, in common justice and can vas bound to say had removed a great portion of abuses which had been felt by the peasantry of That Bill had removed at once the practice of the tithe a tax proportioned to the success of in ; it left the tithe as an equitable assessment on the •tab, which the landlord when he let, and the when he took he land, felt himself equally bound From the removal of this grievance great benefit felt in Ireland wherever the right of collecting been voluntarily given up. Yet under the Bill Right Hon. Gentleman it must be admitted that Where it had been carried into execution, there were lances which still existed, many remedies which t '" he applied, and many points at which the old - were equally felt ; and though by this Bill . 'rotestant clergyman was put in possession of th e remedies and all the liabilities of a land- S till he had many difficulties to contend with this system which were almost insuperable. He refer on this subject to a letter which recently received from a clergyma n—and he n ot see any reason why he should withhold his . the venerable Archdeacon Cotton, rector of who stated these difficulties in terms which he adopt as his own, because it was impos sible for him a dd any thing to them. That gentleman said,— not asking payment for any tithes of th is last bar nut am merely suing for arrears for former years, lug in the only way which the law provides— , by civil bill process at the quarter sessions, for voluntarily passed by the tithe-payers, which notes to have been paid long ago, but which the parties - decline paying, until compelled to it by course • More than 1,0001. is now due to me on such and, as these sums are owing by about 500 persons, requires that each person or his house shall be with a process before he is brought into court : great a difficulty, if resistance he made, presents it in this first stage ! Yet this is far from the for even if these processes be served by means of :y military succour, the presence of the person served them, and his oath to that effect, will be re st the sessions : should he be prevented by violence by threats, (a very likely matter in the pre , of things,) the whole of these, accomplished with 'eh difficulty, become as mere waste paper. Again, Person who witnessed the promissory notes be de totu in the same way from appearing, the notes he- Li s 'uteless ; and the clergyman is not only defrauded of es t : l ghts, l ong and painfully sought for, and acknowledged ia tt l ' h Y i the parties themselves, but moreover is p ut to con e expense in legal proceedings, all of w hich will treti fall upon himself. Still farther , if t h ese obstructions to: tl rcouunted, and the assistant barrister is satisfied as e Justice of the claims, and grants all the decrees, is t eyi e nil now gained ? Far from it ! Another stage of. dif °tY is yet to be passed, and the same brute - force will be 4 an t tuba forward to resist execution of the court ' s judg t; and who will dare in the present state of that dis hets execute a single decree? In the mean time, for 10 0 Ynoe of these I must have advanced 7 s. 6 d. the whole ° f Which may possibly be entirely useless." This was ita t 7'aternent made by a clergyman on claims of which the t f!. was not denied by any man, but which c ould not T ore e d at present by the law. Of the state to which Itaj li r gy of Ireland were reduced by the present deter :o PI tithes of the peasantry to withhold the p a y ment of ricti° ! ,ol Vs y it would be difficult for him (Mr. Stanley) to coo e to her li e a be the House any adequate idea. He knew that a 'f rl° o/ 0 tise tt . tlt ano of them were in a state b orderin g on destitu ar, l 1 ot s, they were not in absolute want. He kn ew that the y ithe 0 06 to stit 7en compelled to part not only with t h e luxuries and psi j jr !WU, but in some cases also with the necessaries of life ; thortoot, ta 4 i f he wished to place their condition in the most for ons v i ) ; t , tli t e language before the House, he would lay before it tico lar ) tae statement of the Rev. Dr. Butler, vicar of Burnchurch, cul t ?, '4 14 'ng the state of his family. Indeed, he would read ler L cvi ) Gentleman's letter, in order to make the at 1 ` ) 0 1J rs e ,' acquainted with the condition to which the clergy pA° ,0 0 ti k °f the Church of Ireland were reduce d in the exer rote' t aij 4 - y of their acknowledged rights. The letter ran thu s : if o° e •A t eo °u are aware that a meeting of hurlers, persons un tie s t ,,', l 14, 4 ;cteil with the parish assembled at my house, and vast' ' would not submit to their intimidation .. Since that da y 0 Si. , of hnsof my proctors was most cruelly murdered. The er. b ` . a ut ! has been obliged privately to leave the country. An tbe 0 t itt u tl rtunate server of latitats was taken by force from o s4 , t Y - five police, and by a miracle escaped death. The . I ,o‘ foul and false calumnies have been published con -o°l,l ro ll t it tili ag me in the Kilkenny Journal, and myself and ow u r col ic tio t O f , ta t i tuy sons have finally beers obliged to fly tbe country. sat „ a fter a residence of more than thirty-six years, du etre'PdsPi t ao ,7 Which time my sole endeavour was to benefit my 10,,5f d 4t 'aloners, I have been banished from my borne and my iad Y' starving exile. The income of the parish is above for tb st at) ,. a year. The sums payable out of that income tsr• „ p l,l ra tila mnt to more than 6001. a year, to wit, interest on was l' t P! eY borrowed for building the glebe-house, quit rent, tlie tow n . snot e or rent, instalment to the Board of First Fruits, rent of n_ _Jr. te e ' e hes school-masters' salary, rent of school-house, four l es . , 00 sk e " proxies, and exhibits, insurance of house and Carw,iol' f , °' Which the law requires to be paid, and the charge 'len t S o f Is e : I 'nutgenent. The money to pay these demands must 'len t resat, ti Pr "ided and paid. I have sold my horses, and adver in de 0 ed . vs at , carriage, parted with all my labourers and w ain' t and broken np my entire establishment. I have rn oti to r i th e o n , t one woman servant, and I believe that I am not sent t' e° my clergyman in the same situation, reduced from the 7;l', a ny tto absolute poverty. No remuneration could tempt en e t P b e . hy th e to view the parish—no process-server appointed ; r to, 1,40 e dare barrister will serve a tithe process—no Py r es: e l : o oi 0 1, 4 7 dare make his appearance ; and if legal decrees were ru bites th, t , fl ed, they could not be executed. The farmers say ,ber'?, a rc i 1 1 ,2 they have completely abolished tithes; and that they wot ile b r ei f (t ::c will pay until they know what Parliament will do." r. y re e arkt li ,d cries of " Hear.") Under these circumstances, e pots ' , rued Alr. Stanley, if it were only for the sake of the y , W i t 'e C a t3 . tna . taut Church of Ireland, and of the support which it Oiatt"rutcyrnbent upon every Government to give to it, Mi d br felt themselves bound to come before Parliament, „1 tt ud t o - 0 1 0 ti a Aof call upon it to proceed forthwith to the examine esy pi the laws which left the testant clergy in so de m . • )13 t h e a condition. But if he r were able to show that pre th .ve rY same circumstanced which were so oppressive to Id P ot e °O rgy, who de a d man , were equally vexatious to the occupiers of land who paid the tithes, he should be able show the Committee a source from which a remedy-might be applied to the grievances of both, —a remedy which would place both the Church and the peasantry on a right footing, and would dry up the sources of those grievances which for centuries past had afflicted Ireland under the present tithe system. There were few cases—he would not say that there were none—in which charges of op pression and extortion were made against the clergy. That there were some cases he was aware, but they were, com paratively speaking, few indeed. It would therefore be the right of the clergy to demand an opportunity of show ing before the Committee what was the rate of charge for tithe in Ireland, and also what was the rate received by the clergy of the Church of England. He had now an instance by him, in which a complaint was made by the parishioners to the clergyman of the parish, in which they complained, not that he exacted more than ,his right from them, but more than they had ability to pay. He believed that this was no uncom mon case throughout Ireland. He would read the petition to the House. It was as follows :—" The petition of the landholders of the Union of Kell* " humbly showeth, that your petitioners, from the depres sion of the times, the exorbitant rents and taxations with which they are encumbered, and unable to discharge much longer, are:under the necessity of applying to your Rave rence.for reduction in the amount of the tithes which are _levied on them, and petitioners humbly hope that your' Reverence will take their gate of destitution into considera tion, and comply with their earnest and reasonable request; - and petitioners, as in duty bound, will ever pray." He (Mr. Stanley) was also furnished with the amount of the tithe, and of the applotment in that parish. It was thus stated in a letter which he had received from the clergy man of the parish :—" The Union contains, by the applot ment book, 9,5855. OR. 21r. is set for 1,075/. late cur rency, which amounts to 992/. 6e. 2d. Of this sum a lay impropriator receives 2001. per annum. The average amount per acre is not quite 21. 2d. It is almost all tillage, and produced before the composition was entered into 1,600/. per annum. It was reduced to what the Union paid fifty years ago, when the composition was ef fected. The parishioners do not complain of the amount, but say they are forbid to pay. I have two curates to pay out of my income, and have been compelled to build a glebe out of my own pocket, which has cost upwards of 2,000/." He (Mr. Stanley) mentioned this to show that it was not the amount of tithe charged by the clergyman that was felt as the grievance. The grievance felt was the extortion of the tithe-proctor, the oppres sion of the underletter, the annoyance of the civil bill process server, the vexation of frequently paying small sums, and above all of paying them to a church which they were taught not to believe in. —(Hear, hear.) He 'had heard it argued that tithe, in any manner in which it might be collected, fell only on the occupying tenant. Now, except as to the uncertainty of its amount it was as clear to him as the sun at noon day that the amount of tithe was a claim not on the occupying tenant, but on the landlord ; and if he had any doubt upon such a point, that doubt would have been removed by the Tithe Composition Act, which enacted that all leases granted after its passing should be granted tithe free, and that the tenant should be entitled to show his receipt for payment of tithes to the clergyman in payment of his rent to his land lord. It followed, therefore, that the tithe was a deduction from the rent, and he had no doubt that if the payment of it to the Church were removed from the tenant to-morrow, it would be exacted next day in the shape of tent with greater rigour, either by the Catholic or the Protestant landlord.—(Cries of " Hear.") But then came the grievance ; in the one case it was felt as a payment to the krotestant Church, and in the other it was absorbed in the rent paid to the landlord. He thought, therefore, that it ought to be known where the pressure came from—that pressure, which was charged upon the Church, but which, in point of fact, came from the landlord.—(Hear.) He had hitherto applied himself to the consideration of the hardship which the present tithe system of Ireland inflicted on incum bents, and had not noticed the peculiar vexation which it ceased the tithe-payer. He would be shorter upon this part of the subject than he had been upon the other, be cause he was unwilling to tempt Irish eloquence to come into the field with true Irish power, founded upon an Irish feeling for the peasantry suffering under grievances, which, to whomsoever else they might be attributable, ought not to be charged on the Established Church. He might be permitted upon this point to quote a letter which he had recently received from a clergyman of great respectability, That gentleman, after stating what were the grievances of the tithe system, made this additional statement upon his " own experience :"—" There are a vast number of in stances in my own parish where one poor man, 'whose whole tithes annually do not amount to more than ls. Bd. per annum, and yet subject him to have his cow, sheep, pig, or horse, taken and driven to pound six times in the year for tithes, and liable upon each and every driving to a charge of 2s. 6d., driver's fees, besides expense of im pounding, and waste of time from his labour in seeking the .person duly authorized to give him a receipt. He is liable to be summoned, moreover, and decreed for vestry cess once in the year, making annually seven calls on account of the Church to his little plot of one acre ; besides, his little holding is liable to two calls in the year for grand jury, public money, and frequently to two calls more for crown and quit-rent. Thus eleven calls are spade upon his small holding in the year, besides his landlord's rent, and for sums trifling in themselves, but perplexing and ruinous in the coots which attend them. Surely such are hardships that ought to be removed." Was it possible, he would ask, that any man should not be roused to a state of excitement by the contemplation of such a system in practice ? Nay, was it possible that such a system could tend, he would not say to the security of the Protestant Church, but to any thing else but its serious endangerment? Here were six different persons, each having claims upon this unfortunate peasant, all of different, but all of very inconsiderable amount. They did not collect these sums themselves, but farmed them out to some tithe proctor, to whom they gave 2s. 6d. in the pound for the collection. He again lets them out for some trifling sum above that which he had given him. self, and the system of sub-letting went on till they got at the inmate of some whiskey-shop as the last sub-lessee,who, to eke out his own petty gains, practised such extortion upon the peasantry as would make the Protestant clergy men, if they were acquainted with them, shrink with ab horrence at the instruments which they were unconsciously the cause of e mploying.—(Hear.) He apprehended that the great grievance in the present system was, first, that the clergy, in pursuance of their legal rights, were com pelled to apply to an indefinitely large number of occupiers of lands for an indefinitely small sum, for which they were obliged to put themselves, in the first instance, and after wards others, to very considerable expence. Indeed, the small portion which each man paid of tithes was no less a source of vexation to those who paid, than it was to those who received them. Again, the persons who were subject to this small tax were, in general, in the lowest station of society. A landlord might subdivide his property into as 'small portions as he pleased ; but when he had done so, and had let his land, he knew from whom his rent was to be drawn. The clergyman had only the same remedy to recover his tithe that the landlord had to receive his rent; but he took the subdivisions at the will of the landlord, and against each of those subdivisions he must proceed se parately if he intended to recover his rights. Now the holders of these small s ubdivisions of property, even when willing to pay the tithes, were the first persons to be in timidated into not paying them. For supposing that a few malignant persons in a village were to combine against the clergyman, these small holders, in their poor paltry hovels, would have no protection against midnight outrage and violence. In case a Committee w ere granted, he should be able to lay before it numerous instances in which tenants had been willing, but had not dared, to pay their tithe in consequence of the anonymous threats which had been held out to them. He had before told the House that the Tithe Composition Act had effected much good. Having effected so much, it was necessary to look to the cause which had prevented its general extension over ,Ireland. However advantageous it might be, he believed them were two or three causes which rendered it impos sible, unless some facilities were granted by Parliament to carry the Act into cninplete operation. (The Right Hon. Gentleman here mentioned what these causes were, but a disturbance in the gallery prevented us from hearing the - first of thsm.) After stating it, be said that another cause arose in a great measure from the opposition which the Bishops gave to the terms agreed on between the clergy. men and the parishioners; the clergyman often abating his legal rights, and the Bishop refusing to permit such abatement, lest the permanent sights of the Church should be thereby endangered. Another cause was the difficulty of making any composition where the tithe received was divided among several parties, and where some of them were trustees for hospitals. A respectable clergyman w as willing to compound for a less sum than his legal right ; but the trustees of hospitals alleged on their behalf, that it was their duty to make the most they could of the tithe for the funds of their charity, and therefore they often preferred setting to a tithe proctor, who bid higher, as being practised in all the harassing system of tithe litiga tion, to abating one farthing of their strict claims. An other, and the last cause of the existing evils to which he should allude was, that in the collection of tithes, and in the serving of the civil bill process, the clergyman was made a very prominent person with hie Catholic parish ionets. With many clergymen he was sorry to say it Was the only point of view in which they were brought into contact with their Catholic brethren ; and he was sure that he should have the concurrence of the House when he said that nothing could be more hostile to the Protes tant Church than a system which brought the Protestant clergyman into daily collision with his Catholic neighbours. Various modes had been suggested by which the existing system might be altered. It was said by some that Government ought to take all the revenues of the Church of Ireland into its own hands; and pay the clergy a fixed sum out of them. This plan, to which there were serious objections in principle, would, he thought, be attended with great inconvenience in practice ; for if Government took the property of the Church into its own hands, it must, in its own defence, exact the tithes with great seve rity,—with far greater severity, indeed, than, had ever been objected to the Church. Another proposition was the adoption of a perpetual corn-rent in lieu of tithes. Now, though he thought this a less objectionable mode than the former, he was prepared to contend that they would not give either to the Catholic or Protestant inha bitants of Ireland the same relief which they might do by another mode of changing the present system. He would not pledge either the House or the Government to the adoption of any one system, but he thought that there was , only one mode by which they could give to the Protestant 1 Church of Ireland that security which all wished it to possess, and remove from the Roman Catholics of that country those grievances of which they justly complained. He looked to the commutation of land for tithes as the best system—he did not think that it would be a matter of difficulty to carry such a system into effect. He thought that with great benefit to the clergy, and to the landed in terest, and to the community of Ireland at large, they might effect an extensive commutation of land for tithe. After the great indulgence with which the House bad al ready listened to him, he, would not trespass farther on its attention by entering at present into a description of the step necessary to effect that commutation, for it would be the province of the -Committee to determine in what manner, and by what steps, the change should be effected. But after proving, as he trusted that ho had done satisfactorily, that the present laws were inefficient for the purpose for which they were enacted, were vexa tious to the tithe-payer, and ruinous to the Church—after proving that this system of tithe had been the handle for years past, and still continued to be the handle, to all the agitators and disturbers of the peace of Ireland, he thought that he had shown enough to sanction the House in ap pointing the Committee for which he now moved. And as they valued the welfare and tranquillity of Ireland, the safety of the Protestant Church, the prosperity of the higher sod the amelioration of the lower orders,—in a word, as they valued religion itself, he implored them to consent to this inquiry, and entreated them, in the pa triotic language of the King's speech, " to adopt such im provements in the laws respecting tithes as would afford protection to the Established Church, and remove the pre sent causes of discontent." He then moved, amid loud cheering, with which he was often greeted in the course of his speech, " That a Selent Committee be appointed to examine into the payment of tithes in Ireland, and the laws relating thereto ; and to report their observations thereon to the House." Sir R. PEEL said, that from the manner in which the Right Hon. Secretary had- alluded to him, he (Mr. Stanley) must have supposed that he had come down to the House to give his most strenuous opposition to the present motion. Now there was nothing in the expres sions used by high on the first night of the session which could justify the Right Hon. Secretary in entertaining such a notion ; and he never recollected an occasion in which the propriety of abiding by the rule of not referring to what had fallen from Hon. Members on former occasions in the then present Parliament was more forcibly illus trated than it had been that evening. A great part of the Right Hon. Secretary's speech turned upon expres sions which be had imputed to him (Sir Peel), but w hich, in point of fact, he had never employed. Although be was prepared to offer no opposition to the present motion, he must be pardoned if he•now said a very few words upon it. He was too. deeply impressed with a sense of the me lancholy condition to which Ireland was reduced by agi tation to lend himself to the views of any persons who thought that they could .forward their party views by op posing the Government on this question,—(Hear, hear.) He could not see any thing more wicked than any attempt on the part of individuals to obtain benefit for themselves from embroiling the politics of Ireland. Wherever else they fought the battles of party, let not Ireland be the arena selected for them.—(Hear, hear.) Entertain ing these opinions, he could not help declaring it to be his opinion, that though the importance of the subject might require a place in the King's speech, it was impolitic to make a reference to it there, if the Government were not prepared with a distinct plan for removing the grievances of which they admitted the existence. The evil, too, would be considerably aggra vated, in case the interval were long between the men tion of the subject in the speech and the introduction of the remedial measures contemplated by Government. He hoped that when the Committee was appointed, it would not lose a day in inquiring 'whether the Government had properly enforted the existing laws relative to the pay ment of tithes. He had not heard any charge made against the Government for having neglected its duty in this respect. He had not preferred, nor did he intend to prefer, any such charge himself; and if such a charge were preferred, he trusted that not this, but another Com mittee would be appointed to examine into the truth of it. He had hoped that the Right Hon. Secretary would have explained his plan more in detail than he had done on the present occasion. He fully admitted the existence of all the evils ofoltich the Right Hon. Secretary complained. He could not know what he did know of the Protestant Church of Ireland without feeling the necessity of reliev ing its ministers front a condition the most deplorable that could be imagined. He believed that the Right Hon, Secretary had not at all exaggerated the melancholy situa tion in which they were placed. If a plan for the altera tion of the present system of tithe laws had been regularly laid before the House, he' could suppose the necessity for appointing a Select Committee to examine its details. The present plan, however, was a plan of commuting tithes for land. Now the operation of such a measure must necessarily be distant.' Besides, the propriety of adopting such a plan at all, was open to discussion. Whether the property of the Protestant Church, in the hands of Catholic tenant., would by secure, he was not then called upon to decide. They were now on the point of sepa rating for the receas, and as nothing explicit had been' stated that evening by the Right Hon. Secretary, a ll Ireland would be at a loss to know what was meant by the aLusion to it in the King's speech. He had before stated that the declaration of the Right Hon. Secretary, that in any measure which he might introduce on this subject, he should pay respect to the property of the Church, gave him great satisfaction and encouragement, R e deprecated, however, the necessity of appointing a Com_ mittee to examine into the state of the Church of Ireland apart from the Church of England. The two Churches were united Churches. The melancholy picture, how ever, which the Right Hon. Secretary bad drawn, and bad placed before him, of the condition of the clergy of the Church of Ireland ; rendered it impossible for him to press his objection or. that score to the present motion. Every day increased his, apprehension, and he cordially concurred with the Right lion. Secretary, in hoping that the House would do nothing either to inflame the public mind, or to increase a peril which was now too palpable to be denied. It was with a view to the example which so humble an individual as himself might set, that he now refrained from entering into „ topics which might lead to an angry and acrimonious discussion. He should therefore offer no objection to the appointment of a Committee. He hoped, however, that the Committee would proceed at once to the examination of the plan to be submitted to it ; for, whatever importance the House might attach to the vacation of Reform, he, thought that Hon. Gentlemen would see that the present was a vital questionaaffecting the peace and prosperity of the empire, and that the considera tion of every other question should be postponed for its consideration. • Mr. LEADER expressed his regret that the Right llon. Secretary did not enlarge the ground to which the atten tion of the Committee was directed, or that be bad thought it right to limit its inquiries to the question of tithes alone. He did not think that was an unimportant question in it self, but it formed only a part of the subject to which he should wish to see the attention of the Committee directed, which was nothing less than the consideration of the gene• ral condition of the Established Church in Ireland. He must, however, rejoice that even the question of tithes was to be submitted to the investigation of both Houses of Par liament, and the only regret which he had with respect to that question was, that it had not at a much earlier period excited, a larger share of the attention of those who, from their official connexion with Ireland, must have been aware of the intolerable evils which that system had en tailed on that country. He spoke chiefly with reference to the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Goulburn we under stood), and those with whom he was connected in the Go vernment of Ireland; who bad the best opportunities of knowing how the system worked. It was also a matter of re gret to him that the subject had been brought forward in the absence of one who had paid the greatest attention to it, and who had collected a mass of the most important informa tion respecting it ; but his chief regret was, that the Right Hon. Secretary bad not referred the whole question of the Established Cbo-ech in Ireland to the Committee. When Hein. Members Considered 'the immense--he Would say the extravagant—revenue drawn bythe Established Church in Ireland from the resources of that country, they would he impressed with the necessity of extending the inquiry into the whole subject of that establishment. The amount of its revenues was now not a matter of uncertain calcu lation. They hadit from official returns which could not be denied. From these it appeared that from tithes alone (as we understood the Hon. Member, who spoke from the floor with his back to the gallery, by which many of his remarks went unheard by the reporters) the church of Ire land derived an income of 780,384/. a year. Besides this, several sees of Ireland were in possession of 550,280 acres ; added to which, there belonged to corporations and other ecclesiastical bodies, in glebe and other lands, property amounting in value to about 250,000/. a year. So that in land and tithes it was now ascertained, by official re turns, that the Established Church of Ireland derived a revenue from that country of 1,785,0001. a year—(Hear, hear) —and this, let it be remembered, was paid for the religious instruction of comparatively a very small portion of the inhabitants of that country. He was one of those who thought, and indeed no one of those who objected to the tithe system in Ireland disputed the proposition, that the clergy of the Established Church in Ireland should he well paid for the services they performed ; but when it was known that nearly 2,000,0001. a year were drawn from the country by the religious instructors of about one-sixth or one-seventh of the population it must be admitted that the continuance of such a system could never give satisfaction to those of a different religion by whom so large a portion of that re venue was paid, and who had, in addition, to support their own clergy, to whom they were devotedly attached. The case was very different in England, where the great body of the people belonged and were attached to the Church which they were called upon to maintain. The tithe system here, therefore, though in many instances it was found to he vexatious in its operation, was looked upon with different feelings from those which were en tertained respecting it by the great mass of the population in Ireland. Those feelings were such, that no law which could be devised would be able to reconcile the people to the support of such an immense establishment, which seemed to be kept up not for the instruction of the many, but for the aggrandizement of a few.—(Hear, hear.) In the answers of some of the Bishops of the Established Church in Ireland to queries put to them, the House would find still stronger proof—if proof were necessary— of the enormous magnitude of the Church re v e nues coin ' pared with the Protestant population for whose religious instruction it was kept up. From these answers it appeared that in the southern and western districts of Ireland the number of Protestants was very small, and in some ex tensive districts there was scarcely any. In the counties of Sligo,•Roscoromon, Leitrim, Mayo, and Galway, the proportion of Catholics to Protestants was as 20 to 1 ; in Clare they were 25 to 1 ; in Kerry 14 to 1 ; in Limerick 19 to 1 ; in Cork (we understood) 20 to 1, and in some others of the southern and western counties in nearly the same proportion. It farther appeared from the official sources to which be had alluded, that there were 6,000,000 of acres, with a population of nearly 3,000,000, which were almost exclusively Catholic, and yet that por tion of the country paid to the Protestant establishment nearly 1,000,0001. a year. Could peace or content be ex pected in a country where such a disproportion existed, or could it be expected that a system of this kind could con tinue ? It was impossible, and therefore some system of commutation to some other mode of payment was abso lutely necessary, not more for the peace of the country, than for the quiet and comfortable subsistence of the Protestant clergy themeelves. He had not risen to enter into the whole question on this occasion, as a more fit op portunity would occur hereafter for that purpose. His chief object in rising was to express the regret he felt, in common with many other Irish Members, that the Go vernment had not thought proper to refer the whole sub ject of the Established Church in Ireland to the investi gation of the Committee. From one part of the Right Hon. Gentleman's statement lie differed. He thought he had understated the means which the Protestant clergy had of recovering their tithes by legal means. He might do so by a summons before two Magistrates, or by civil bill, or by application to the Ecclesiastical Courts; or, if he did not choose to avail himself of any of these, the Courts of common law were open to him ; or a Court of Equity would attend to his claim. But it would be said that all these had been tried, and in many instances had failed. He admitted the fact, and the cause of the failure had been, and would continue to be, the aversion of the Catholic population to be taxed in that manner for the sup port of the Protestant Church.—(Hear.) He lamented as much 48 any man the unfortunate disputes which had recently taken place in some parts of Ireland ; but it was a mistake to suppose that these were caused by the ques tion of tithes alone. There were other and deep causes for the distress and consequent discontent which existed in so many parts of that country, since the year WOO the state of Ireland was becoming worse. He spoke not now with reference to the removal of the local Legislature, for into that he would not then enter. For a time after the Union the loss of the local Government was supplied in a great degree by a resident gentry, but of late years these had gradually disappeared from Ireland. Not only those who had large incomes from land bad become absentees, extended l,oo o t o t o 5 l o g numberswhoof m n e o n w w i th incomes of re sided either in this countr y or on the Continent, and there spent the whole o f that which ou g ht to be circulated among st those by whom it w as rained. Besides these, system had Ireland had to regret the removal from her of those army, naval, and ordnance establishments which had been the means of circulating millions of money in that country, but which had within a few years been transferred to Eng. land. Besides these she had lost nearly the whole of her linen trade, and thus with the loss of her local Legislature, of her resident gentry, of large naval and military establish - moots, of civil hoards, of the bounties on her fisheries and coarse linens, she was now reduced to a state of almost hope less misery, Let these facts be considered, and it would be seen that the evils in Ireland lay, not in the tithe system, though that was bad enough, but in a variety of other causes which an attempt to remedy that system only would leave untouched. If Hon. Members would bear in mind the drains which were constantly made on Ireland, they would see that it was impossible she could go on as she was at present. She had to pay 4,000,0001. a year to the Government, 3,000,000/. to absentees, nearly 2,000,0001. to the Church, If to these were added the extravagant amount of grand jury assessments, it would be found that the country was charged with about 14,000,0001. a year on a produce that was some millions below that amount. It was evident, then, that some of the charges most go unpaid—either the landlord, or the grand jury rate, or the tithe proctor, for she could not pay them all. She could not pay 14,000,0001. a year out of a produce of 8,000,0001. If there had been an increase in the agricultural exports of Ireland, they were more than counterbalanced by the decay of her trade. Were not these all subjects which required investigation as well as the tithe system ? He could tell Hon. Gentlemen that they much deceived themselves who thought that an in quiry into that system would remedy the other evils to which he had referred. An inquiry into the great locum brance of the Church would do much, but the whole sub ject should be gone into.—(Hear, hear.) He knew that there were difficulties in the way of such an inquiry; but they must be met, for the evils of the system would not cease to press on them until they were met by some plan of commutation of tithe altogether for some other mode of paying the clergy. He would not go into that at present, but would take an early opportunity of moving that the whole of the Church Establishment in Ireland should be re ferred to the consideration of the Committee. The Hon. Member, after expressing his hope that the subject would be considered dispassionately when brought forward, and his conviction that nothing but a commutation would place the Protestant clergy on a comfortable footing, con cluded by stating that his only object in bringing these matters under the consideration of the House was that which alone had induced him to desire a seat in it— namely, a desire to improve the condition of Ireland, for by that means would the peace and prosperity of the United Kingdoms be most effectually secured and strengthenei.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. D. BROWNE thought that tithe in Ireland was more vexatioul than oppressive, for every landlord got his estate on the condition of having tithes to pay out of it. The vexatious principle of tithe was, that it was exacted from a Catholic population to pay a Protestant establish ment. He, as a Protestant, had a sincere attachment to that religion, but he must say that its temporalities ought to be reduced to proper dimensions. They were kept at their present enormous amount in the hope from the be ginning of making Ireland Protestant; but though they had been trying at that for three Centuries, they had com pletely failed in the effect. His advice to Government was to take the whole of the Church property in Ireland into its possession, sell it, and put the proceeds into the consolidated fund, and pay the Protestant clergy out of it, according to the services. Commutation would not do, for people would object to pay commutation rent ; and if they objected to that, they would also object to pay other rents. He did not object to the Committee, but he would object to the proposition of his Hon. Friend (Mr. Leader) of referring the consideration of the whole Established Church to that Committee. There ought to be a separate Committee for each. Mr. G. DAWSON, after expressing the pleasure he felt in hearing the clear and able statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman as to tithes In Ireland, observed, that he had mistaken him (Mr. Dawson) in supposing him to have said that the Government had connived at the op sition of tithe in Ireland. He had no recollection of having Stated any thing of the kind, and, on referring to one of thee sources of information as to what passed in t h at li g e w , he found that what he had stated was very different from the Right Hon. Gentleman's impression of it. He rejoiced at the declaration of the Right Hon. Gentleman, and he hoped it was an echo of the senti ments of Government on the subject, that it was intended' to uphold' the ' rights of property of the Established - Church of Greit Britain and Ireland. He rejoiced also that the tone of the speech when it reached Ireland would ..diffinie general satisfaction and confidence, and would disarm those open and concealed enemies of the Church, whether in Political Unions or other associations. He agreed:_that one of the great evils was, that the Catholic objected to pay tithe to the Protestant estaZ blisliment ; -but if that objection was held good in Ire land, the Dissenter would claim the same exemption in England ; and thus one step would lead to another, so that we should noon get rid of the whole of our Protestant institutions. Mr. J. BROWN was convinced that any thing short of a total anti radical reform of the whole of our Church Esta blishment in Ireland would not be sufficient to remedy the evils:arising from our present system. Mr. GOULBURN stated, that though he was disposed to protest against some of the doctrines which he had heard from. Hon. Members opposite, he was unwilling to enter into the discussion of this subject at present, nor should he helve risen at all, because he meant not to oppose the CoMfasittee, - but that having taken a different course when be was in office, he wished to mention the reason why he had done so. When in Ireland he bad a❑ oppor tunity of observing the differences that arose between parties from this system. He had tried to settle matters between - them, not by instituting an inquiry, but by means which would gradually settle their differences and establish a permanent arrangement as to the amount claimed and paid. He had endeavoured to do that by the Tithe Com position Bill, and he must say, that as far as it bad gone it had exceeded his most sanguine expectations. If Mi nisters had come down with a measure ready prepared on this subject, and which they would have taken upon diem at once to propose, he might have been disposed in such a case to give . them his cordial support. He regretted that instead of:duing so, they had adopted a course which was likely to give rise to much animosity and angry feeling, and which would open the door to a great deal of violent discussion that might have been otherwise avoided. Much, however; Si he Objected to the line of proceeding that had been taken by 'Ministers in this instance, he should give no opposition to the present motion. Mr. SHEIL` said, that the Hon. Gentlema❑ (Mr. Goat burn) bad offered incense to the Secretary for Ireland in return for_that which had been wafted to him, and had then proceeded to expatiate on his own merits in the con struction of the tithe composition Act. It had been always 'understood that it was the production of Lord Wellesley. This, however, had not been confirmed by the Right Hon. Gentleman ; and it was to be taken for granted that he would not dress himself in feathers bor rowed'lroM the splendid plumage of that illustrious per son. It was, however, rather remarkable that the Hon. Gentleman should take credit for this master-piece of le gislation,-when the Secretary for Ireland had announced that , it had failed to produce the good results anticipated from if. Hear, hear.) The Secretary for Ireland had stated thit its provisions were inadequate to its interests, and thattfe most dreadful disturbances had taken place in the Parte.of the country to which it had been applied.__ (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Sheil) thought it tight to advert, with some distinctness, to the malevolent encomiums pro nounced upon Government by the Member for Harwich (Mr.- Dawson). That Hon, Gentleman was iu the habit of using a quotation which was peculiarly apposite in this Instance-- Ulla putetis, " Dona carere dolls Danaum ?" To paraphrase the celebrated interrogatory, he should say, can the praise of such a man be destitute of design? Is there-not evil -in his commendation, and poison in his honeyed sentences.—(Cheers.) He affected to speak o the Established Church as the model of ecclesiastical per• fection, - yet- the Hon. Gentleman had once allowed his moral sensed (strange to say) to overcome his political pre dilections, and whe❑ an application was made for money to repair the Cathedral of Derry, he burst forth into an exclamation against the monstrous revenues of the Bishops, and presented to the House a very picturesque description of the,epi►eopal territories.--(Cheers.) Now the Hon. Gentleman was not only content with passing the, most unqualified panegyric on the entire Church, but he in sisted . on'invcriving the Government in a most inauspicious particip . atidu in his sentiments.—(Hear, hear.) But .gatnst hi prams he olr. ueit) ..t up the acts a the:Governiment, and the declaration of the Prime Mini. , . ster,.(Hear, hear,) The Secretary fur Ireland might entertain %ghat opinions he thought proper, but what said Lord-Grey ? Had not Lord Grey denounced, since he was Minister, the enormous anomalies of the Irish establish ment; drawn a distinct line of separation between it and. the English Church, and stated that it must be adapted to the condition of the country, and to the feel in6; -- of the' vast majority of the English people.—(Cries of hear,") He (Mr. Shell) must needs rescue tha Government from the political embraces of the gentlemen on the opposite side. But did the matter rtop. there ? When the see of Derry (that prodi. giowysee!) became vacant, the Hon. Member for Middlesex, Whose absence was to be lamented on to many accounts, hut especially for its cause, gave notice that he should move an address to the Crown, praying the King not to fill up that see. 'the Chancellor of the Exchequer came down, after Dr. Ponsonby had been appointed, and announced, on the part of the whole Cabinet, that Dr. Ponsonby had , been promoted on the express condition that he should take.the see.subject to such diminutions and regulations as should - afterwards be introduced.—(Loud cheers.) But he-(Mr. Sheil) had not yet done. The Member for Wa terford moved a resolution respecting first fruits, and was sustained by the Government, who declared the clergy should, if possible, be taxed to the full amount. The Il f ouse resolved, that the opinion of the Irish law officers shouldbetalen, The Irish Attorney-General, a friend of the Church, the Solicitor-General, who is not, at all events, its enemy, gave an opinion averse to that of ano ther lawyer, who had been consulted by the remembrancer of the Board, and said no valuation could be made. But did the matter rest there ? No ; the Government were bound, in consistency, and upon principle of political in tegrity,-to bring in an Aet of Parliament to redress the gross abuse,' by which, in place of 132,0001., the Bishops pay about 1,2001., and out of nearly a million of money, the clergy pay only about 3,oool.—(Hear, hear.) Still he had not done. Where was, the Vestry BiP, which the Secretary for Ireland was to bring in in its amended and More reasonable shape? Were not Government also pledged to put an end to that iniquitous and exasperating system,• by which a few Protestants could assemble in a Conclave of village ascendancy, and mulct us at their ca price.? Thus, therefore, the imputations on the Govern ment,,, conveyed in the damning praise of the Member for Harwich, were utterly unfounded. He (Mr, Sheil) trusted. however, that the Government would take an early opportunity of disabusing the Irish people, and xlivesf that • fierce and determined resentment, which would be the result of even a suspicion that it was in tended-Au betray the interests of the country.—(Hear, hear.) lie (Mr. Sheil) utterly repudiated the idea that Churchpro - peity was not under the controul of the Legis lature.. • What had the English Government done in Ca ,oada? The. Secretary for Ireland had been there, and he saw that while, a Catholic was subject to tithes, a Protestant was.exempt ; and if the latter bought the property of the former; be held it discharged from tithes.—(Hear, hear.) Did principles depend on the latitude and longitude, and did the Secretary for Ireland consider that to be robbery d'n the banks of the Shannon which was only simple jus tice on the batiks of the St. Lawrence?—(Cheers.) But suppose that the application of tithes could not be legiti mately changed—what followed ? The Church had plan aei•ed the'poor--what had become of the poor man's I 'Vtartita pars? It was not so ohs lete a right. It was recognized by the Ist George I. in Ireland. While tie 'dis tressed clergy excited the sympathy of the Irish Secretary, bad-he. no compassion for the hundreds of thousands of fa mished, houseless, and homeless peasantry, to whom, even on the principles of churchmen, restitution should be made. Let AlaeComnaittee look to this, and let Government remember yl oud cheer s .) utterth at i e t h at a , u a g s e fo i u l t t h o think ii n e , rr e opa cifying Ireland uno4m. Treh without e x e n must laid to the root. Tak e down threatened, s illl f( t a e Li matic opposition to . the golden u d l o t m he es s o h f uu t k h s e au establishment bre u.nsy9lmoral el ; i ear thquakewhole they c,et withhinatruin,—(Loud ne titkeo, of which this motion was stated to be the conse vence, was only of a piece with the systematic opposition which had been offered to education in Ireland, during the last few years. The fact was, that the people of Ireland Were not at all unwilling to pay tithes to the Protestant cleigy there, but they were forbidden to do so by the same persons who bad prohibited them from taking advantage of the benefits of the system of education offered to them b); the Kildare-place society, and the present Government was not ashamed to be connected and in communication with the individuals who acted in such a manner. His be( ' .ut tie woul (led to a m he ' ,r esent systen re diffi Pen to th e c l e , under 101., al*. In this wa without diffic d of brO Proceedingste , ,ect. , ou mode or s and b ur itro d °4l was on d, trouble imhitino !h and but a ntrarf4t n „ n i t itheend Wig quarte kno t, c l''ea might ~,irst mode • I iesel en _ -I , s irts woul )onees, At t i e cause w Ger k(l °_e, both p ppoie'ti th _ e d , and tl were red re Would be EL, r t anate enoc t cue, original so Bat at onc e the uiln : I likewise o 11, glen seldon h e 11 0, of grey he i_r un ti equity. „ . 7 remove y solvent a thisdoer y mo d incr. h°, pock rkl ," the p aoservatio Itsti in the to i t that must of !het who th e n x l of , k WILI a tax :ours` tl on success .4 ,,,_ er gYcoan, e of of tithes beerl'etweenh iou i 4 t ' thew be rtuoit! t tl interesi In v i °. ,tinfavoura sa id so Mies, whi I so, I T the o th er mph t a ,bed b e t t y irishio4 di "e entreat hts ( 4. l ittent to cr t.arnent to Lptylitorr: naturally they t oners and ti de at th stin th j t 4 ' 411 1e a del or . Noes, thi :11 - w h yllu d the 4 tl n Y perp d threug the tz : 4 ght Ifon f erecrt : tor] , o t cled , s ject—a t - it d :he was d, abuses . ge , Tha res siO t u g the tit the l it : i y; it left rout , Pariah, eta when h asidert 'tclL t) '• Fron e wo o , t i , 47 4 felt lo ur; "ad been dell!' Right I ipc tly Where it their ttit grie vane f it / 114,, to be Lir 11,, t i , , ces we Aliu 11 ~rotegat f p$ 14 4 :4 rem the bo 'till he it °lO. t a i this ay f the Le h t refer Yie fr did a d recen t e co° ,ast se , ° See ! se tt, ri 111 "" - -from last ti l wh( , s t Ow to d adopt „i to 4 i add any re P re „,,Nt ttn not tie c ° Ad' but am i foli' e°,4 tr a : l ui ng it 3, Y, by ci theiro/44 t • ht Yolunta to h n d es Is p i t av, nty, Mr. al. de , try, 04 1, but 10(1°, sw requ 101 tlis and, " 1 ) with 3 l ie kqt .' great a , ar d r h o even in ord the 11 4 l ; for e re ghou l b g i ° s re, li erved inar: 1 mea t 01 at Spi red the e ` ! erred t t . L o . h p S tate of d a she rfth nt .1, dill turhPyij te i ,, e Penson elO _ , in at, n ot I one' rntv .i s r !nee': Rf ~~esty S s alinisterJ had deserted the party in Ireland, who had always endeavoured to promote and preserve the union of both countries, and had tent themselves to the views of men who, too impatient to await the effects of the Irish Reform Bill, had already raised the standard of repeal. Deprecating as he did the system which bad been thus adopted by the Irish Government, he could not avoid, however, returning his thanks to the Right Hon. Gentle man (the Secretary for Ireland) for the kind spirit in which he had spoken of the Irish Church, and be promised to devote his best attention to the various stages of the inquiry which was about to be instituted on the important subject to which the present motion referred. Mr. J. GRATTAN said, that the statement of the Learned Gentleman who had just spoken, that the oppo sition to tithes in Ireland was of recent origin, or was in any respect attributable to the conduct of the existing Go vernment there, was, to say the least of it, a most incor rect one. The Right Hon. Gentleman near him, the late e t bancellor of the Exchequer, would have reminded him that, some years ago, owing to the opposition which then existed to the collection of tithes in Ireland, he was obliged to bring in his Tithe Composition Act. The fact was, that an opposition to tithes in Ireland had existed hog before many Hon. Members in that House were born. Nearly half a century ago, as a speech then made by his (Mr. Grattan's) father in the Irish House of Commons abundantly proved, an extensive opposition to the collec tion of tithes prevailed throughout almost the whole of Ireland. He was ready to admit that the clergy should be paid, but he would maintain that it was impossible to pay them in the present mode under the existing circumstances of the country. Allusion had been made by the Hon. Member for Louth (Mr. Sheil) to the quarta pars, and the mode of its distribution in former times. Upon that point he (Mr. Grattan) would only say, that be trusted that whatever should be done with regard to tithes in Ire, I ind would be accompanied by an arrangement for a pro vision for the poor of that country.---(Hear, hear.). He was a Protestant, and ardently attached to the maintenance of his religion, and as such he would express his convic tion, that so obnoxious were tithes in Ireland, if the pre sent system were continued there, the downfall of the Pro testant religion in that country must be the consequence. The fact was, that it was absolutely necessary that the whole state of the Church property should be reviewed and examined.—(Hear, hear.) The feeling against tithes in Ireland was not the creation of the present or of any preceding Government,—it had existed there for centuries. The motion was their put and agreed to, and the C om _ mittee accordingly appointed. STEAM PACKETS. On the motion of Mr. Alderman W 001), leave was given to bring in a Bill to regulate the speed of steam vessels in the port of London. COURT OF EXCHEQUER IN SCOTLAND. The LORD ADVOCATE moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the better disposal of business in the Court of Exchequer in Scotland, and in doing so stated that the object of ,the Bill was ultimately to do away with that Court there, on account of the exceedingly small quantity .f business which it had to perform. That course was adopted instead of abolishing the Court at once; for in such case, the learned persons who presided there would Ile entitled to retire upon full salaries. As an exemplifi cation of the state of business in that Court, he might state that the amount of defended cases disposed of there during the last twenty years was 124, making an average of about 7} per annum. During the last ten years the annual average was so low as four ; and in the course of the last two years only two cases had been tried in that Court. For performing all that business there was a Chief Baron with 4,0001., and three Barons with 2,0001. a year each. . . . Leave was given to bring in the Bill. Mr. HODGES obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the laws relating to sewers. Mr. HUNT move for a return of the number of per sons confined in prison for smuggling in the United King.. (tom, specifying the offence for which each prisoner was convicted, and the amount of fines in which they were condemned ; stating, if married, the amount or number of each person's family, who are kept by the parishes, and to what parishes they belong.—Ordered. VESTRY ACT. Sir J. HOBHOUSE obtained leave to bring in a Bill to tmend the Vestry Act of last session. Mr. B. EVANS moved for returns relating to taxes upon knowledge, comprising stamp duties on newspapers, 'he number of them conveyed through the Post-office, the ❑umber of colonial newspapers received in this country, with the Post-office charges, &c.—Ordered, so far as the same could be made out. Mr. FRESHFIELD obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Bankrupt Act, 6, Geo. IV. SMUGGLED SILKS. mr. Alderman V ENABLES, in moving for a specifi cation of the goods seized, and returns of all papers con nected with the prosecution of Messrs. Leaf and Co. by his Majesty's Attorney-General, for an alleged breach of the revenue laws, observed that this was a case strong and peculiar in its features. The silk trade of this country, it was well known, was greatly depressed, and the exposure of those unfair traders who injured the country and the re venue would he the best means of putting an end to such i :practice. The persons injured in this respect were, therefore, disappointed that any compromise had taken place in the instance before the House, although he be lieved that in a pecuniary point of view it might have been advantageous. Mr. HUNT seconded the motion, and said that the Government had pledged themselves there should be no compromise. Mr. P. THOMSON said, that all the papers connected with this case would be furnished with pleasure, excepting of course the brief given to the Attorney-General, which, being a document of a confidential nature, could not be expected. The case had been misunderstood by the public for the Government had redeemed its pledge, which was that the guilty parties should he prosecuted. That hail een done, and proceedings bad gone on in Court until almost the moment of trial. At that stage the whole hadm at matter acceptedw a in te r t n he hands of is verya dva n t t h a e g e o A u t s t o t r o n t e h y e - Gn G e ov e e r r al , Government, e nt, although now, from the feeling that had been excited, it might be a matter of regret that the case had not been proceeded in. There were, in point of fact, several cases. In one, goods landed from a barge in the river, to the amount of 7001 , had been seized, and were abandoned to the officers of the Customs. They were confiscated ; hut as no claim was made, the crime could not be traced. Much misrepresentation. had gone abroad 19 to the amount of the penalties, which had b e e ,A stated so high as 90,0001. The whole value penalties which could possibly have been v vo y er o by the Crown was 24,500/.—(Hear)—and 'they ha t d Gum.. promised for 20,0001. So that there was a difference of 4.001., besides the value of the voila (about 5,0001.) which had been returned. Gorerment bad, therefore, re ceived 20,000/. instead of 99,0001. He trusted that thy, House would think that Government had done justice, Mr. GOULBURN observed, that if the effect of Oa cone promise would be to keep out of view two or three other houses, which, he understood, had received the smuggled goods, the compromise would be injurious to the public if not, he agreed with the Right Hurl, Gentleman that it was judicious. The ATTORNEY,GENERAL said that the compro• mite would not extend to those houses, if t'ley w e r e guilty. The public interests had been best sez t ed b y t h e , compromise. Mr. ELLIS, in reply to a remark of Mr. Alderman 1 7 mq/times, said, that when the papers were laid upon the table, it would be seen that the house referred to had put-. sued a systematic course of smuggling to a very gre a t ex , of tent, independent the present instance. After a few words from Mr. Alderman TaloalesoN and Mr, HUN, the papers were ordered, WEST INDIA COMMITTEE. Mr. P. THOMPSON moved the re-appointment of the 'West India Committee (not the East India Committee, as printed by mistake in the votes.) SCHOOLS OF ANATOMY. Mr. WARB,URTON moved for leave to bring in a Bill to regulate schools of anatomy. He reminded the House that in 1829 ha had introduced a Bill of the same kind, which had passed this House, but had been rejected ig another place. The political changes which had occurred since had occasioned him to defer the renewal of the at tempt. The Bill he now proposed to i n t roduce differed in the he Home Secretary, to whom proposed the appointment some respects from the other. ft was more simple. In, stead of requiring anatomical pr ofessors to obtain licences, w and who should inspect the schools ejeof h tau i on c ro h a, sts.o h m a w d ielert b ael e h e ait n odo s o p ebb b e j e e et c m antrea s obected to the former Bill that it d d, r I t o, nu de a distinction between the poor and the rich ; his pre .,nt Bill was equally applicable to all ; and he hoped, when it was considered what had been the enormous and neces sary consequence of the present law,—the law was one thing and necessity another,—prejudices would give way, and that schools would be supplied with the subjects ne cessary for the promotion of science, and at reduced prices. Mr. HUNT said, that unless this Bill was materially different from the last, he should opp)se it to the utmost. He hoped that a clause would be introduced to legalize the sale of a person's own body, which was now the property of his executor. Mr. SADLER said that so far from the repugnant?. re- Y 1