The Sun. — London, England, 1827-05-09 00:00:00

tatted thsmeelves, or to have brought hostilities to a con. elusion. Ho said this with the greater readiness, because he had seen a publication by a Staff Officer, ender Sir Archibald Campbell, than which a more unjust, because a partial publication, he had never read. Any one, on read lag it, world suppo e that the English navy had never reached the Burnese shore. There was not a single men tion of the navy, though every officer in the service whom he had seen, bore testimony to its extraordinary exertions. The Right Honourable Gentleman had praised Sir Archi bald Campbell, for his moderation in restraining the arms when within four days' march of the capital; but when it was recollected he bad but 2,000 effective men, and that the enemy were 50 to one, he thought it seas impossible they could have entered the capital without entire deateue tion. Hs wished to call to the attention of the Howe to the great risk run by such an euterprise. What would they say to a Government which had carried a war into a country alt'agether unknown? Mr. WYNN said be had proposed the vote of thanks to Lord Combermere first, considering }Jim entitled to priority, on account of his rank in the army. It was impossible to maks the troops employed at Areacan the object of a vote of thanks, as the officer in command had himself un fortunately fallen a sacrifice to the malady, under which so many had fallen. Had he survived, Le certainly would have been distinctly mentioned. The troops were entitled to their full share of - praiee, and would, by these general terms, be as much included as those who served under the imenediete command of Sir Archibald Campbell. Sir JOSEPH YORKE thanked the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hume), for having mentioned the Navy. Mr. WYNN said it was his intention to move a vets of thanks to the Navy, for their conduct during this ex pedition. General GROSVENOR said the Army at large were indebted to the Right Hon. Gentleman for baring brought forward this vote of thanks. When it was considere , under what great Captain Lord Cornbermere, Sir Archi bald Campbell, and General Cotton had served, their gal lant conduct was not to be wondered at. Would that that great Captain had been continued in -his situation at the head of the Army ! Would that some one would sweeten the differences which had arisen, more by accident than by 4esign s and produce the retiree. of that illustrious General to the, situation he had filled ! He was certain that the s,oontry at large did not lose eight of the compliment paid to that illustrious Duke by our gracious Monarch, when his Majesty had not named any subject to fill up the situa tion, but had taken on his Royal self to officiate. Sir JOHN BRYDGES said, professionally as well as prirately acquainted as he was with the brave Commander, whose heroic deed', together with those of his gallant companions in arms, were the subject of communication to the House this right, the few words he should say upon this occasion were dictated more by an indul - genre of private feeling, than by any necessity that ex isted of calling forth due attention (if anything that fell from him could, in any degree, have that effect) to a just eppreciation of the splendid achievement now laid before them. Our gallant troupe, passing through an invaded isiantry, had everywhere, and upon every occasion, re- Seained from pillage, and protected the vanquished. True soldiers, they had felt and verified the maxim— " ParCeee subjectis, et debellare superbos." Such was the fruit of British discipline grafted on native courage ; which was mainly to be attributed to the admi rable etenlations established by the late illustrious ever•to lae-lamented Commander-in-Chief.—To a soldier, he said, his best reward sees his country's approbation. This army had done its duty, and it now behoved that House to do theirs. He would not longer take up the time of the House, he should consider himself guilty of a derelic tion of his duty, if he sat down without expressing his ardent hope that this great victory, which was unparal leled in the annals of warfare, and would he handed down to posterity as such in the pages of history, would in justice be followed up by a grant from the East India Com pany of the crore of rupees paid by the King of Ava (as the price of his capital being spared) to the gallant force ,order the command of Sir Archibald Campbell. The vote of thanks was then agreed to. Mr, WYNN then moved that the thanks of that House he given to Major-Generals Sir Thomas Renaell, Sir Jasper Nicholls, Sir J. M. Whittingliam, Brigadier-General Adams, Brigadier-General John I‘Coombe, Brigadier- General James Wallis Sleigh, and the several officers be longing to the expedition against Bhurtpore, for the zeal And valour shown by them on the occasion.—Agreed to, next. con. Mr. WYNN moved that the Howe highly approved of the zeal and conduct of the non-commissioned officers and soldiers, both Europeans and natives, employed in the ex pedition against IThurtpore, and that the same be communi cated to them by their respective officers. Mr. HUNIE highly approved of this resolution.— Agreed to nem. con. Mr. 'WYNN moved that the thanks of that House be ivea to Major-General Sir Archibald Campbell, for the taliant conduct displayed by him in the expedition against the King of Ava, and tha eminent skill shown by him 'tinder circumstances of peculiar difficulty.—Agreed to , it - na. eon. Mr. WYNN moved that the thank. of that Houce b? given to Brigadier-Generals William Mac Bean, Wil loughby Cotton, and Michael M'Creagh, for their inde fatigable exertions in the expedition against Ava.—Agreed nem. Mr. WYNN said it would have given him peculiar pleasure to have been able to include in the above votes several officers who had also distinguished themselves by their valour and conduct in both of the above expeditions ; hut it was usral to confine the thanks of the House to officers of a brigade rank. He then moved, that the House highly approved of the zeal displayed by the guropean and N•ttive Troops engaged in the above expedition. Mr. Ht;2:llE said, when the circumstances of the Army in India were considered, he was sure that the Right Hon. Gentleman would see reason to depart froM the rule which had been laid down. The Resolution was agreed tc nem. con. Mr. WYNN then moved the thanks of the House to Commodore Sir James 13risbane, for the cordial co-opera tion which be gave to the troops employed on land in the operations against Ava. Sir C. FORBES hoped that a vote of thanks would be moved to the Bombay Marine, for its service on the occasion. Agreed to nem. con. Mr. WYNN moved the thanks of the House to the Naval Offieers in general who had co-operated with the troops in the operations against the kingdom of Ava. Sir J. YORKE was desirous of knowing frot4 the Gallant Officer (one of the Council of the Lord Higci Ad miral, whom he now saw in his place) if he was correct in saying that a very small portion of the merit of the ope rations on the Irrawaddy was due to Sir James Brisbane, but that the whole labouring oar was borne by that great bring cannon, Captain Chads. Sir G. COCKBURN said, that the commencement cf the operations was the work of Captain Marriott. He was succeeded by Captain Chada. Captain Corrie ❑ext took the command and retired. Captain Alexander next came to the station, and being senior to Captain Chads, he took the command. Sir J. Brisbane lastly came, and he of course took the command, but soon went down to Ran goon. It would have been quite impossible to deny that Captain Chads, an Officer for whom he (Sir G. C.) felt the greatest personal regard, had a great share of the merit of these operations ; but it would have been obviously un fair to mention his name without extending the same mark of distinction to th• other Officers engaged in the naval operations. After a few words from Mr. ASTELL, Mr. WYNN amended his Resolution so as to compre hend the Bombay Marine. Agreed to nem. con. Mr. WYNN then moved, that the House did highly ap prove of the conduct of the Seamen and Marines serving on board the ships of his Majesty and of the East India Company on the alnive occasion.—Agreed to nem. con. EXPENSE OF ELECTIONS. Lord ALTHORP said it would be remembered that he had already made several motions on the subject of Elec tions, the object of all of which, as well as tlaat of his pre sent [notion, was to diminish the expenses incurred at elec tions. He commenced with County Elections, and he had the good fortune to succeed so far as to cause a Committee to be appointed to inquire into the mode of conducting them, from whom he expected, in a short time, a satisfac tory report. His next purpose was to diminish the ex pences of all other• elections, particularly Borough elections. He trusted that he would be permitted to bring in the Bill which lie should move for, after having first explained the grievance, which called for redress, and the remedy which he should propose. It was known to the House, that many Acts of Parliament had passed to prevent the com mission of direct bribery. It was also•well understood, that these Acts were in many instances vioiated, and vio lated in this way :_Candidates were in the habit of en gaging a number of voters, whom they paid for pretended services. These persons were appointed to nominal offices, and those who gave pluinpers received twice as much as those who gave only half votes. They affected to fill the offices of messengers, flagmen, runners, musicians (some of them engaged in the latter capacity, who never played a note in their lives !) and various other depart ments. It was to prevent such practices that he pro posed to bring in a Bill. •lle did not propose, however, that any penalties should be inflicted on the persons who, under pretence oe. employing voters, actually reward them for their votes ; or on those who consented to receive money as nominal servants ; but, as the surest way of abolishing :he practice, be would take away all temptation to the re petition of it from the candidate, by making a law which rhould prevent any person employed and paid by a candi late, or by any person in his behalf, from voting at that particular election at which be was so employed. He (Lord A.) would not, disfranchise the party—he would only deprive him of his votefor that particular time. The effect:of such a law would be, that the candidate would amploy only such persons as were actually necessary to the purposes of .the election. He then moved that-leave be riven to bring in a Bill to make further regulations, in or der to prevent the corrupt practices at elections, and to di minish the expences of the mime. The motion having been seconded, and put from the Chair, An Hon. MEMBER, whose nanie we could not learn, wade some objections to the proposed Bill in a low tone of voice. Mr. WYNN was clearly of opinion that the over-paying of musicians at elections was 33 substantive an act of bribery as if a barber had been paid fifty guineas for shaving the candidate's chin.—(A laugh.)—The rule appeared to him to be this—that money pai4 for o'utaining a vote was as cor rupt as if money had been paid for buying votes.—(Hear.) Sir CHARLES BURRELL thought it hard to take away the right of voting at an election frcm the agents if the candidates merely because they were ?gents. Ile was persuaded that many agents would rather act gra tuitously than give up their franchise. Mr. BROUGHAM felt himself under a great obligation to his Yo'de Friend, for this endeavour to put a stop to great, and as his late election experience proved beyond all doubt, the growing evil -A election expenses.—(Hear.) —Well, host - ever, as he wished the measure, if he thought it was fairly open to those objection.: which had been Stated to it by an Hon. Baronet opposite, or that it at all abridged the elective franchise, he should be the last man to support it. But he could not regard it in the same light as the Hon. Baronet unwarily, no doubt, viewed it. If he was to rule that any person exercising any certain trade, profession ; or employment was not to be allowed to vote at any election, which certain trade or occupation such parson used generally, habitually, and independent of the election, and that such person might have voted if he had not been so employed, that would be undoubtedly a disfranchisement. But what his Noble Friend's Bill said, was this—to the barber suppose, who had been alluded to, —" if you exercise the trade of a barber generally, habi tually, and independent of this election, such employment shall be no bar to your voting; but if, on the morning of the election, you shall shave the candidate's chin, and re ceive fifty guineas for it, then do I hold you guilty, not of shaving, but of bribery."—(La ug h.)—B u t b a d and imper fect as the present law was, it did not, in his opinion, require a declaratory clause to explain that such a case as this came within its operation. Nor did he believe, not withstanding all that he had seen and heard of Committees lately, and he had heard accounts of these Committees which he should have great difficulty in believing, if he had not had them from undoubted authority ; he did not be lieve that any Committee appointed under Lord Grenville's Act, could entertain a doubt as to such cases. It wasa-ery true, therefore, that the law as to such cases was sufficiently explicit, but others had been stated by his Noble Friend, in principle the same, though perhaps not so obviously so, and as it might be doubtful whether they were reachable by the present law, it was at the least safer to adopt this mere comprehensive Bill, by which all persons employed at elec tions, such as musicians, bearers of flags, and all those per sans who filled such like and important and responsible offices—(great laughter,)—and whose services every one knew were overpaid, should be disqualified from vot ing at that election. Every Gentleman knew the great demurrage, the heavy expenses which candidates were suhjected to, in paying agents, not only for their profes sional assistance, but by, way of enlisting in their cause the electioneering influence of these persons, and of securing their votes. He had no objection to candidates employing, such agents at elections—they might give them ten gui neas a-day if they were foolish enough to do so, but let it be to them as canvassers, and much good may their ser vices do these gentlemen; but let them not, under such a colour, buy np an elector's vote. By law and the spirit of the Constitution, every elector ought to tender his vote to the candidate whom lie thinks the most fit to represent the particular county or borough in Parliament, but in con sequence of this influence, he tenders it as the hired and paid agent of the candidate.--Could it then be called disfranchisement, when agents are told that, because of the retainer, which they have received from any particular candidate, they are placed under a teme porary restraint as to voting? for they are supposed to be incapable of disinterestedly discharging the duty of a judge—as an elector ought to he—of the merits of the party soliciting their suffrages. For these rea sons he wished success to this measure, but he wished it had been carried further. His Noble Friend had ad dressed his attention to the defects of the law, as it affected the proceedings in elections out of doors ; but he (Mr. 13.) w,neld recommend to him to extend his measure to that acknowledged evil—the growing misdirection of Election Committees in this House. He (Mr. B.) had intended to move for minutes of all the proceedings in the Committees upon the late election ; and as this was the first opportu nity which occurred of his giving an opinion upcin these proceedings, he should say, that more crying outrages upon all legal principles, upon justice, common honesty, and common sense, had never been committed—and he spoke advisedly—than, to his astonishment, and almost incredu lity, had been committed by those Committees. When he heard of a Committee of 13 Hon. Members of this House refusing to allow it to be proved that A bribed B, though the evidence was that A gave the money to a third person to. bribe B, until a previous question and pre liminary discussion had been got rid of, as to agency -when, to the utter confusion of all distinct ideas, and confounding of all senses of common rapacity, he found a Committee refusing to receive the evidence of bribery because there was mixed up with it, in unico contcxtu, evidence of agency, it appearing that the same witness was to speak to the bribery and the agency, he was disposed to recommend a return to the old form of tribunal which had existed in this House for trying the mss'ts of con tested elections—(Hear, hear.)---He bad heard of other cages where a Committee had refused to admit that one borough was comprised within another, because there was a right of common appurtenant to it; though no Judge in the land, assisted by twelve jurors— and he spoke professionally—would have hesitated a moment in coming to a conclusion the very opposite of that at which this Committee, in mockery of all common sense, after a deliberation of eight days, arrived.—(Hear, hear.)--.Much as he wished to see a measure perfected which would purify the practice of elections, and spare expence to the candidates at the poll, he was no less anxious to see similar amendments made in the proceedings of this House. After the returns came to be questioned—for questioned they ought to be here—with the same impartiality as if they had been tried in a Court of Justice. He was in all respects a moderate reformer— that is, an admirer of practical reform as distinguished from mock or theoretical reform. He would not lift one foot from the ground, until he had found that the other was upon a sure footing, and not placed upon a slippery precipice, and would proceed safely, and in the daylight, not according to any fanciful theory. He should call all reform which was not practical, mock reform, and upon that ground, gave his support to this measure, which, though moderate, was a real and substantive improve ment in the law of elections. The appointment of nominees he considered a gross mockery of justice, a grievous injustice to the parties, and that it must be painful to the Members themselves to be placed in so anomalous and contradictory a situation—that whilst on the one hand, they were sworn to ad minister impartial justice between the parties--on the other, they must necessarily be influenced by the obligation which their nomination imposed upon them, of inclining more or less to the side of the Member by whom they were appointed to see that what was termed fair play was done to him. Such a situation must be unpleasant to the nomi nee, if he was an honest and honourable man, as well as to the person nominating him, if he was actuated by similar feelings. A man so placed cannot give satisfaction to any party, inasmuch as it was impossible for him to reconcile in his person the characters of partisan and judge. He (Mr. IL) should therefore propose the abolition of nominees, but in their room he would have a referee appointed by the no minees, like to the appointment of an arbitrator between two litigating parties in a Court of Law. He also ob jected to the mode of striking Election Committees now used. At present, the original list was reduced from forty eight to thirteen, but he would prefer taking the chance of the first twelve or thirteen Members whose names were drawn. By these means, much of that indecency and par tiality, now so glaring in the striking of Committees, would be got rid of. He concluded by recommending fhe Noble Lord to extend his measure, so as to embrace the points to which he had alluded. Mr. SPRING RICE recommended the insertion of a clause, to declare giving cockades and ribbons an act of bribery. These " favours," as they were called, formed a large item in the candidates' expenses, and answered no other purpose than that of giving greater vigour to the display of party oppcsition.—(Hear.)—The practice had been proscribed by the law of Ireland since 1796, and it would be a considerable alteration in the Election Law of this country.—(Hear.) Lord ALTHORP, in reply, had no objection to intro duce any clauses which would lessen the expenses of elec tions, but was afraid of hazarding the success of the Bill it self by tacking upon it suggestions which might not he ge nerally approved of. One Bill was better confined to one measure—and it was safer to proceed by steps. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. Mr. Wei NN had, in the early part of this Session given notice of a Bill for next Session, which would consolidate all the Election Law. That Bill had made considerable progress, and it was postponed only because he wished to !et the Committees dispose of the cases arising out of the general election, as by these results many useful hints might be supposed to he furnished. He was willing either to go on with the Bill if such was the pleasure of the House, or to hand it over to his Hon- and Learned Friend (Mr. Brougham). If he was to give an opinion, he should say that this matter would be better discussed by being treated extensively than by piecemeal. Mr. NICHOLSON CALVERT adverted to the incon venience and embarrassment of Election Committees form ing their judgments upon precedents brought forward by the lawyers, rather than on the particular merits of each After a few words from Lord MILTow, Lord JOHN Re. , :szu., and Lord SANDON, Mr. Alderman WOOD had attended on the ballots of all the Election Committees, but by some accident had never been requested by any one to act as noviinee, except by a man who knew nothing at all about him.—(Roars of laaghter.)—However he had succeeded in seating that man, who, but for his exertions, woo1:4 never have eat in this House.--(Continued laughter.) Mr HORACE TWISS suggested the expediency of de vising seine plan of taking a scrutiny at the place of elec tion,. itrid not by a Committee of the House. Leave was then granted to bring in a pill. BOROUGH OF PENRYN. MI. LEGH-KECK rose, pursuant to notice, to Inb uilt a motion to the House, founded on the late proceed ings in the borough of Penryn. The Hon. Gentleman, after stating various instances of gross bribery and corrup tion practised in this borough on former occasions, advert ed to the year 1819, when a Committee was appointed to take into consideration the state of the elective franchise in that borough. The Committee framed certain resolutions on the evidence which was then before them ; and he (Mr. Keck) meant to found the motion with which he intended to conclude on those resolutions. The Hon. Gentleman then went into a minute detail of the circumstances at tending the late election in the borough of Penryn. On the Monday preceding the election, so careful were the candidates to disdains any notion of usin;; any other than constitutional means to forward their reseective interests, that they actually procured the town-crier to proclaim in the market-place, that the practice previously resorted to of making the electors "comfortable" would on that occa sion be discontinued.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.)—On Monday and Tuesday- the voters were very tardy in coming in to vote, but means having been taken to make them "comfortable" they came forward on 'Wednesday in great numbers.—(Laughter.)—The lion. Member then referred to the evidence taken before the Committee appointed to try the late election, which furnished, he said, the most incontestible proof of the grossest bribery and corruption. Having sat on several Election Committees, and having once presided at a Committee appointed to inquire into the abuses practised in this borough, and signed a report stating that the charges of corruption and bribery were fully proved, he should ill discharge the duty which he owed to the House and the country if he did not endeavour to do justice to the respectable portion of the Penryn electors. He should now state the mildest plan which he could suggest to remedy so great an evil. He proposed to limit the right of voting in the borough of Penryn to the ac tual possessors of land within the borough ; and then lie pro posed that the elective franchise should be extended to the two hundreds in the immediate neighbourhood of Penryn. It might, perhaps, be desirable to transfer the elective franchise to some place altogether unconnected with the borough of Penryn. He was aware that the town of Leeds was mentioned as a fit place to which to transfer the elective fanchise of Penryn, in case the House should agree to disfranchise that borough. He was told, however, that the proposal was not well received by the inhabitants of Leeds, and that, in fact, they were averse to such a mea sure. He was induced, however, to believe that the trans fer of the elective franchise of the borough of Penryn might with advantage be made to Manchester. He would now submit certain Resolutions, which should- serve as the basis of a Bill for the more effectually preventing bribery and corruption in future in Penryn. He would nut, hoi•- ever, let the matter rest with the Bill, but would follow up farther the precedents which he found on the journals ; and would move that the Attorney-General be directed to pro secute certain individuals against whom cases of bribery had been made out before the Committee. He felt it his duty to adopt this course, and having taken the subject up in the discharge of his public duty, be would not be easily driven from it. He would propose what appeared to him an effectual remedy ; but if the House, actin on the sug gestion of the Noble Lord (J. Russell we belied;), should agree to transfer the elective franchise to some large town, he of course would submit, but the consequence must rest with those who supported that view of the case. The Hon. Member concluded by moving— " That it appears to this House, that the most notorious bribery and corruption were practised at the last election of Members to serve in Parliament for the Borough of Penryn, and that such practices were not new or casual in that Borough, the attention of the House having been called to similar practices in the year 1807, and in the year 1819. " That the said bribery and corruptio❑ deserved the most serious consideration of Parliament. " That leave be given to bring — inll Bill for the more effectual prevention of bribery and corruption in that Borough; and " That the Attorney-General be directed to prosecute John Stanbury Sowel (or Solly), and others, against whom cases of bribery had been made cut." Sir C. BURRELL rose to second the Resolutions. The question having been put from the Chair, Mr. D. BARCLAY would observe, that he was not opposed to the principle of the House interfering to punish cases of bribery where they were satisfactorily made out ; but he could not assent to the sweeping proposition, that because bribery had been established in the case of the few, its punishment should be extended to the many. The charges brought by the Hon. Member were, he con tended, too general and indistinct to warrant the resolu tions which he had moved. They had heard of bribes to the amount of 1,3001. being given in one instance, and of 2751. in the other ; but they had not been told of the great number of electors who, it was alleged, had disgraced i themselves by a bribe. This sum of 1,300/. rested on the evidence of a man named Pitt, who, in the course of his examination, admitted that he himself had been guilty of the grossest profligacy, and to so great an extent, the:. the general opinion of the Committee was, that there was no foundation whatever for the charge of the division of 1,300/. among the electors. Then as to the sum of 2757., it rested on no better authority, as there were most res pectable individuals who were ready to prove that the par ties who spoke to that circumstance were perjured. But suppose that could not be done, and that the fact of the 275/. could not he denied, what did it prove against the great mass of the electors? Was it shown how it wax divided, or that it went amongst the whole, or only amongst a few? Nothing of this kind was attempted to be shown. The suns of 275/. would, at 101. a-head, af ford a bribe to 27 electors and a half ; and now, admitting for an instant, for the sake of the argument, that that number of persons had been bribed, was that a fair cause for disfranchising 500 electors ? Let the House look at the cases in which Parliament had on former occasions proceeded to disfranchise boroughs, and they would see that in the last four and most important instances, there was not one in which the circumstances bore any analogy to those of Penryn. The cases of Ayle •eury, Cricklade, Shoreham, and Grampound, were all of them cases of gross bribery. In the Aylesbury case it was proved that the electors met the candidates; that there ems a bowl of punch at one end of the table and a bowl of guineas at the other, and the electors received their punch and their gold at the same time. Of the 300 electors in the borough it was proved that 200 had been thus bribed. In the Borough of Cricklade, it was proved that more than half the electors had been bribed. The case of Shoreham was still stronger. There a society was formed called the " Christian Society," to which elec-, tors only were admitted. It was assembled by the hoisting , of a flag. When they met their proceedings were secret. Each man was sworn to secrecy, and had entered into a hoed of 500/. The affairs of the electors were managed by a committee, authorized to make the best bargain they could with the candidates. Here was a case where the disfranchisement of the borough was called for; but was there, he would ask, any analogy between the case of Penryn and this or any of the others he had men tioned ? But for such practices, corrupt as they were, Shoreham was not disfranchised. The only change was, the extension of the franchise to the inhabitants of the "rape of Bramber." In the case of Grampound, 47 out of 60 or 70 electors were proved to 'have been bribed— some of them took bribes of 35/., some of 53?. ; one of 110/., and the mayor got 306/. )3esides this, a paper was produced to the committee, which was a kind of bill of parcels of the borough. In that bill the members were debited for 8,4001., the price of the two seats, and credit given them for half that sum which had been received.— For this Gratnpound was disfranchised ; but had he had the honour of a seat in Parliament on that occasion, he would have objected to the disfranchisement, though he would not have opposed the extension of the franchise to the neighbouring hundred. The House ought to be cautious how they interfered to remove the fran chise from independent boroughs.—(Hear, hear, and a laugh.) By independent boroughs he meant those in which Noblemen and Gentlemen did not actually appoint the Members, which was well known to be the fact in seve ral inqatteeN.—(Hour, hear.)—ln defending a place so notorious as Penryn, he wished to state his own opinions, lest it should be thought that lie was the advocate of the practices which were said to exist. He hoped the House would give him credit for what he had said,—that he was perfectly innocent of any attempt at bribery. If he had been guilty, why was he not included in the petition ? The borough St . Penryn, which he had she honour to represent. was particularly unfortunate.—(Laughter.)—lt had fallen more than once under the notice of the House, and by this misfortune had acquired a notoriety, which it would be im possible for him to dlisipate by ally thing that he could offer. But he must say that there were mail) , more cor rupt places than Penryn.—(Hear, and laughter.)—lt seemed to him, that no case whatever had been made out which (ailed on the House to disfranchise the borough of Penryn ; and therefore the proposition of the Hon. Member for Leicestershire (Mr. L. Keck) could not, with justice, be carried into effect. Lord MILTON confessed, that he did not approve of the plan proposed by the Hon. Member for Leicestershire ; while he agreed in several of the animadversions which had fallen from the Hon. Member for New Shoreham. In looking to a measure of this kind, one great point was, to consider the variety of persona intrusted with the elective franchise throughout the country ; and, in his opinion, when bills were brought in which went to affect that fran chise, care ought to be taken not to disturb the balance which had hitherto existed between different classes of the community. If a sufficient case were made out against the borough of Penr:ll, he would vote, if no better offered, for the proposition of the Hon. Member for Leicestershire; at the same time he confessed that it was one, as he con ceived, of the least advisable modes of proceeding. If the electors of Penryn were so generally, so universally cor rupt as had been represented, then he would recommend that the franchise should he granted to some large, po pulous, and wealthy place, rather than to the freeholders of Kerrier and Penwith. Mr. Alderman WAITHMAN said that there was what he might call a regular market for borough seats, at the commencement of every Parliament. This was clearly shown by Mr. Oldfield, the individual who had given the public " The History of Boroughs." It was well known that at a dinner-party of borough electors, the agent would introduce to them an individual to represent a borough in Cornwall or elsewhere, of whom the electors knew no thing whatever. The, price of a seat varied from 3,000/. to 5,0001. or 7,000/., according to peculiar circumstances ; and it was notorious that a seat might be purchased for a single season. The price rose and fell like any other mar ketable commodity.—( A laugh.;—There was a war price and a peace price.—(A laugh.)—lt was an extraordinary thing that, when the money was paid, nobody was known to advance it, but the honour of the Members, the agents, and the electors, was loudly talked of. This sort of honour reminded him of the story of a General Officer, now living, who was robbed some years ago. Shortly after the robbery, a person was condemned and ordered for execution at Newgate. The General applied to this man, and asked him whether he knew any thing of the robbery? He answered that he did. The General next inquired whether the felon had any accom plices ? To this he replied -in the affirmative. The General then desired to know who they were. " General," said the thief, "do you not call yourself a man of honour ?" " I do," answered the officer. "I am also a man of honour," rejoined the convict—" and, to save my life, I would not give - you the information you require." Now this was precisely the sort of honour of which these borough-agents had to . boast. The arrangement was left to them—a day was appointed for the payment—the busi ness was secretly settled ; and it was all considered a matter of honour. How different was the course pursued in the city of London. He had been sent to Parliament by 4,500 electors, without incurring one farthing's expense. Nay, his constituents sent him 2s. to pay his•fees on entering that House. The fact was, that, in large and populous places, there could he little corruption, but in those small boroughs a system of corruption unquestionably prevailed. There ought tc be an equality of representation in that House. The manufacturing, the trading, the shipping interests, ought all to be represented ; instead of giving au additional preponderance to a body, the landed interest, perhaps already too powerful. If the -leetive franchise were taken from Penryn, it ought to be transferred to the town of Manchester, Leeds, or Birmingham; and if no other gentleman made_the proposition, be should move, as an amendment, " that the, towu of Manchester be the place selected." Lord J. RUSSELL observed that, one of the Hon. Members for Penryn (Mr. D. Barclay) hid declared dis tinctly that he did not offer a bribe, or participate in the corrupt proceedin gs ; b ut t h e ot h er H on. M em b er (Mr. Manning) had not thought proper to address the House upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.)—He (Lord J. Russell) was disposed to reject the remedy proposed by the Hou. Member for Leicestershire, and to confer the elective fran chise upon Manchester—!hear)—of which he had before given a notice ; and he was happy to say that he had as-' certained there was a concurrence of opinion at Manchester in Evour of that town being represented in Parliament.-- The House might allow the Hon. Member to bring in his bill, and give instructions to the committee to consider what might be expedient. There would be no difficulty in that course. Mr. MANNING observed, that after the personal allu sion made to him by the Noble Lord Lord, he was called upon to trespass upon the House. He could bear testimony to the character of many of the voters at Penryn ; they were highly respectable, and above receiving a bribe ; seve ral were officers of the army and navy. Under the cir cumstances of the case, and the unanimous declaration Of the committee that he was in no way concerned in bribery, he should have thought it wholly unnecessary for him to disclaim a participation in it. Colonel DAVIES thought that there bad been sufficient evidence obtained to enable the House to proceed. The place appeared to he most corrupt, not even behind Gram pound. The elective franchise could not be transferred to a better place than Manchester. Mr. WYNN was ready to agree with the Noble Lord (Milton) that this was a case which required further inves tigation. Lord STANLEY read a letter frOtri a person in autho rity at Manchester, which stated that a large majority of the inhabitants of that town were decidedly in favour of representation; and that the only differeitee which existed was with respect to the qualification of voters. With re gard to the prosecution of the offending electors, he thought that there could be no hesitation on the part of the House in directing a prosecution. Mr. CANNING said, that it could hardly be doubted that, in the report before the House, there was abundance to justify the bringing in of the Bill ; but he thought that there was not evidence enough, at least until the two former reports (of the contents of which he had no recollectioe) were laid upon the table, to justify the extreme measure which some Hon. Gentlemen were anxious to resort to. The present motion was for leave to bring in a Bill merely to prevent bribery and corruption in the borough of Pen ryn. He thought that the Hon. Mover was entitled to bring in his Bill, and to state his intended remedy; but before he decided what was eventually to become of Pen ryn, it would be necessary for him (Mr. Canning) to have, not merely the former reports, but a good deal of supple mentary evidence presented to him. Without giving his opinion as to what ought to be the future destination of the franchise belonging to Peru yn, in case it should turn out that the conduct of that borough was incorrigibly corrupt and incapable of being purified, he should submit that it was hardly right, in the present stage of the proceedings, to go into the question of transfer at all, far less into the terms upon which it was to be made; because it must he admitted that it would be but an unfair way of judging a culprit, not to proceed upon his trial until after lots had been cast for the division of his clothes.--(Hear, and laughter.)—He repeated that he thought there was before the House sufficient evidence to justify the bringing in the Bill ; and to that measure he gave his most hearty con sent, reserving all farther considerations to be settled in the course of the discussion. He agreed to this with the more readiness, because he thought the true way to avail that which he should consider as one of the greatest evils that could happen to the country—a sweeping and .over whelming reform—was carefully to cure those blots (like the present), which it was impossible for the House to pass by without seeming to shut its eyes artfully to the defects of the present system. _ _ Lord ALTIIORP was quite sure that when the House entered into the proposed examination, it would find that the most gross corruption had been practised. Mr. BROUGHAM thought that a prima facie case was fully made out for the House to: proceed upon ; but he did not think that enough had been shown as yet to justify disfranchising the Borough. For the nature of the transfer of the elective franchise—if it turned out to he ne cessary that any transfer should be made—that was a point upon which he apprehended there could not be a moment's doubt. The only proper. transfer would be, not to Penryn in part, and to the hundreds adjoining in part, which would be giving part of the franchise back to the very people who had abused it, and the rest to another set of people who held their right of voting which they had already by the most objectionable tenure in the country, but to some one of those large and populous towns, which, by their wealth and importance, were entitled to a more distinct and par ticular representation than they at present possessed ; and he had no hesitation in saying, that he thought the fittest course that could he taken would be to transfer it to Manchester. He agreed, that in that which appeared to be proved against the Borough of Penryn, there was no thing which affected the Hon. Bank director (Mr. Man ning) who sat opposite. He agreed, that the Hon. Mem ber was not to be fixed with the conduct of those persons who had acted on his behalf and for his interest. But he confessed, that he had heard with some suspicion the statement of the Honourable Member's colleague (Mr. Barclay), that neither directly or indirectly had he taken any part in, or known of, or suspected,— and this too he spoke without the slightest mental reservation—(Hear, hear, hear,)—any of the measures which had been taken in the borough of Penryn on his behalf. Now he (Mr. Brougham) believed this. He be lieved this. He believed it—not because it was in the slightest degree probable, but because the Hon. Gentle man stated it—stated it without mental reservation, too— and therefore it was impossible for him to doubt it.— (Hear, and laughter.)—But as the Hon. Member knew nothing of all that had been done—and certainly he (Mr. Brougham) knew nothing at all of it—could any body ex plain how it happened that Mr. Stanbury was in gaol at the present moment ?—( Hear, hear.)--Mr. Stanbury had been summoned by •.he Committee to tell what he knew about this affair, of which nobody else knew anything; and instead of coming forward to illuminate, he had ab sconded, and was committed for contempt. It was no mis take, although something to that effect had been hinted ; because, if it was a mistake, Mr. Stanbury might petition the House, give his evidence, and be let out. But he did not attempt to do that ; and altogether, perhaps, it was not so very extraordinary his having a fancy to pass the sum mer in gaol ; for the House would find that he was altoge ther a very odd fellow.—(Hear, and laughter.)---He went to Penryn, it appeared, for no purpose but to see the amuse ments of an election ; and he gave away, for the pleasure M eeting the Hon. Member (Mr. Barclay), of whom he knew nothing, represent that place, as much as 1,3001. in the morning; and this could not have been all that he had given away, because the Hon. Member did not sit there as Mem ber for Penryn for 1,300/. ; the price of boroughs was known too well for anybody to believe that ; and at the time when Mr.. Stanbury gave these sums away, be knew that, be sides parting with the money, he was running the chance of getting into what was called in Penryn a " misfortune," and what was called in the Court of King's Bench a misde meanour; and Mr. Stanbury did all this, and moreover chose to lie and rot ha gaol, rather than say a word about it, purely to secure the election of the Honoatable Member (Mr. Barclay) for Penryn, he not being at all employed as the Honourable Member's agent, nor in any way indem nified by or connected with him.—(Hear; hear.)—Now, he hoped that the entire veracity of all this statement would be as clear out of the walls of that House, as it was within them.—(Hear and laughter.)—His mode of re c•onciling the apparent difficulty was a plain, and, he trusted, not an illiberal one—it was this :—He supposed that an Hon. Gentleman who could swear, without mental reservation, that be knew nothing of particular acts, done obviously for the furtherance of his interest, must haite made a provision for future ignorance by employing an agent generally, and shutting his eyes to all the steps Qr measures which that agent might find it necessary to take. —(Hear, hear. )—Because the fact was, the Hon. Gentle man had no property or connexion in Penryn.—(Expres sions of dissent.)—Well, if the Hon. Gentleman had an over-powering property and influence in Penryn, it was an other matter ; but still the Hon. Alember must admit that Mr. Stanbury was a very odd man ?—( Hear, and laughter.) —Because, he did really pay the 1,300/, and other large sums of money in Penryn, the House would see. And who the deuce could have paid him again ? for nothing could he more certain than that the Honourable Gentleman had not. Where could these sums have come from? What a man of means, as well as bountiful disposition, and par ticular desire to see the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Barclay) Member for Penryn, was Mr. Stanbury !—(Hear, hear.) —And what was still more extraordinary—and even as extraordinary as his fancy for lying in prison all the sum mer—his good offices were not confined to giving away large sums to secure the election of the Hon. Gentleman opposite for the borough of Penryn, but he appeased, just at that same time, to have been disposing of his wealth with equal liberality in two or three other places : it was very odd, too, they were boroughs in the country.—( Hear, and laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member, after repeating his belief that Hon. Members who were so for tunate as to get all this done for them, and yet were able to swear, without mental reservation, that they knew no thing of the means by which it was accomplished, could only place themselves in that lucky position by choosing an agent, and taking care to avoid seeing any thing of his operations, concluded by stating that he thought the case of Penryn merited a candid and impartial, but a most ri•• porous inquiry. Mr. C. BARCLAY felt himself compelled to address a few words to the House, lest the talent of the Hon. and Learned Member who had just sat down, for ridicule, should lead Hon. Members to a wrong conclusion. The Hon. and Learned Member had Stated—as of his know ledge—that the Hon. Member for Penryn, his (Mr. Bar clay's) relative, had no property or influence in Penrvu.— This was directly the reverse. of the fact; for the Hon. Member had been introduced there by persons of the highest influence, and had gone down to offer himself upon their assurance that he might come in upon the most ho nourable terms. With respect to the observations about Mr. Stanbury, if the Hon. and Learned Member had only looked at the evidence before the House he would have seen that to the case of the Hon. Member (Mr. D. Barclay) they were entirely inapplicable. He would have found there that the 1,3001. which he stated to have been paid by Mr. Stanbury, had been paid for purpose ; and ob jects quite distinct from the Hon. Member's (Mr. D. Bar clay's) election. The Hon. Member, after asserting, he begged to KIT in the plainest terms, that Mr. Stanbury was no agent, nor had been, of his Hon. Relative, sat down by declaring that the Hon. Gentleman had been returned a 5 fairly to the House as any Member who sat in it. Mr. BROUGHAM said that he had certainly laboured under a mistake, and he had no hesitation in at once ad. mitting it. Mr. LEGH KECK replied. The resolutions were then put and agreed to, with the exception of that directing the Attorney-General to prose cute Joseph and Richard Sowell, John Stanbury, end others, which, after a few words from Lord GRANVILLE SOMER SET, and Mr. H. Twiss, was postponed until further evidence should be produced. The reports of the Committees upon the elections at Penryn in 1807 and 1819 were then ordered to be re printed ; and Mr. LEGH-Kreic and Sir CHARLES BURRELL appointed to prepare the Bill for the prevention of bribery and corruption in the borough of Penryn. DISSENTERS' MARRIAGE-BILL. Mr. W. SMITH said, that as he understood there would be no opposition to his motion, it would not be necessary to detain the House any longer than to state that the Bill which he intended to bring in was merely to relieve cer tain c onscientious scruples which Dissenters entertained respecting the marriage ceremony. It was his intention, after having brought in the 'Bill, to move that it should be printed and referred to a Committee, where any dis cussion upon the Bill mi g ht t a k e p l ace, an d any alterat i ons which might be thought necessary made in it. The Hon. Member concluded by moving for " leave to bring in a Bill to relieve Dissenters from certain difficulties in the marriage ceremony." Leave was then granted to bring in the bill, and Mr, W. SMITH and Mr. WARBURTON were appointed to prepare the same. Lord ALTHORP brought in a Bill " to prevent per sons employed by candidates at elections from voting at such elections." The Bill was read a first time, and ordered to he read a second time on Friday next. The Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at half-past twelie o'clock. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Norma OT MOTION TOR TIIIS DAT. Mr. Wodehouss--Bill to discontinue certain Presentments of Constables. ORDERS OT THE DAT TOR Title NAT. 1. Sussex Election Bill—Second reading. 2. Portage Duties Bill—Third reading. 3. Supply—Committee. 4. Ways and Means—Committee. 5. Defaulters at the Ballot yesterday, to be reported. NOTICE GIVEN YKSTEnDAT. Thursday, May 10. Mr. Wilmot Horton—Correspondence between Sir Ru fane Donkin and the Colonial Department, and other Papers on the subject of the Government of the Cape of Good Hope. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE. FRENCH PAPERS. (From the Etoile, dated .Monday, May 7. ) PARIS, MAY 6.—A Royal Ordinance, dated April iet orders sixty thousand men of the Class of 1826, to be raised. A . Table is annexed to the Ordinance, fixing the quote to be furnished by eacii Department. The Marquis de Chaves has arrived at Bayonne. There is no truth in the statement of some of the Jour nals, that the English and Portuguese troops have ap proached the frontiers of Spain. A Correspondent of the Auysburg Gazette, mentionin g the removal of General Yermoloff, from the Government of Georgia, adds, that it is act known how he will be em ployed ; but that it appeals that hi; Administration, is _ Georgia, is entirely terminated. LIES OF THE DAY. JOURNAL DE COMMERCE.-It is reported that orders have been given to several distant corps to advance, in order to increase the garrison of Paris to 4-0,000 inen• What is certain is, that the barracks without the city, to the west, are crowded, and that the soldiers who cannot be accommodated in them are di,tributed amongst the neigh' bouring villages and country houses, and billeted on the inhabitants. We learn that Sablouville, and the habitations about the Chateau de Madrid, are full of horses; some houses are obliged to receive four or five. The persons residing a t Les Batignolles and Clichy, have received orders to b e ready to quarter troops. CONSTANTINOPLE, APRIL S.—Letters from Syra saY , that three Monks have arrived at Corfu to direct the re building of the church and monastery of Mount Carmel. They came on board the Hecla, Cubarre, of the Royal Navy. The Paella of St. Jean d'Acre declares, that he will be present at the laying of the first stone, and continues to treat the French Consul with great kindness. APRIL 13.—Notwithstanding' the Ramazan, there are frequent Councils at the Porte, to which the Redgiats and Ulemas are summoned. They are supposed chiefly to con cern regulations connected with the new system which the Sultan proposes to introduce. The Greeks have landed on the isle of Imbros, but quitted it on the 26th, carrying off a dozen Turks, whom they took into the country. • It is known that Ibrahim was at Motion at the end of March, waiting{ the return of the fine season, to undertake, another expedition against Maina ; be said he needed n° reinforcements to open the campaign. The renegade Salve was at Tripolizza. APRIL B.—Nothin g is talked of at Pera but the earrY ing off the daughter of a rich Armenian banker by the son of the Prince of Wallachia. He has taken her to his ovfn house ; and when the Turkish authorities went to demand her hack, he told them that he had married her, which put an end to further proceedings. APRIL 9.—lt is said that the Greeks have at length agreed that the General Ass?mbly shall be held at Piatia, the ancient Epidaurus. This termination of their dispute; is ascribed to the influeßce of General Church. There is no news of the siege of Athens. The approach of Karaiskaki does not appear to have any effect. Letters from the Dardanelles, of the 28th March, say- - that Greek cruisers from the Gulf of Salonichi intercep t all communication with the Isles of Lemons, Imbrue , Thasos, and Samothrace. APRIL 11.-The Porte yesterday summoned the son °I the Prince of Wallachia, and a young Armenian girl , whom be carried off, and ordered him to restore lrer to het parents, after which she is to go into a convent. It 14 affirmed that the young Prince has applied to the Russian Legation, in order to secure himself against the proceeding' of the Government. (Flom the Co4stitutionnel.) PARIS, Mar s.—The most noble institution, perhar , of the whole Revolution, was that of the National Guard' Its origin was pure and conservatory; it sprung out of the requirements of the public safety, in the midst of the seen ° so unwonted, and at the same time, so terrible, of the 12th , 13th, and 14th July, 1789. It w as in the name o menaced property, of personal safety, threatened wi th danger, that there sprung up, as it had been by miracle , from the very bosom of the Parisian populace, that soldier'', which wished for liberty without convulsions, and reform without crisis, and without disorder. It was composed °f the whole of the moderate and honourable part of the Parisian citizens, and in the first days of popular exaltation the National Guard appeared unceasingly, as a protective genius, to defend the factions from each other, to save the Throne from the errors of the multitude, and the people from the treacherous machinations of the Councillors of the Throne. After Mass, his Majesty granted a particular audience to the Duke of Dalmatia, the Marquis de Chasseloup, the Duke of St. Aignan, the Count of Antichamp, the Count, of Meulau, Peers of France; and Viscount Kergarion, Deputy. At eight o'clock in the morning, his Royal Highness the • Dauphin reviewed in the Champ de Mars, the first regimen t of the Cuirassiers of the Guard, and the regiment of the Lancers. His Royal Highness was received, on entering the Champ de Mars, by the Duke de Reggio, at the he at of the staff of the Royal Guard. (From the Journal des Debats.) is a spent blow of the State. When a regiment. Plat's, MAY 5.--The disbanding of the National Gua rd is dis banded, an existence is destroyed—the soldiers are dil parsed, the colours are burned : here there is no suc h thing ; the Government simply declares, that it'casts front it a force which was part of its power and of its security'- This is a caprice which may surprise —at the most , a menace, which may aw a k en di s lik es an d no more. Afte r breaking the National G uar d, t h e Mi n i ster declared neat day in the Itionitcur, that h e was a b out to i nqu i re why ,- Pe had done so, and the day aft er h e declared, that to seek o 0 motives for his conduct, w as t oo l a b or i ous a tas k , an d tha t he renounced it. France does not participate in such rash' near. does not agitate herself but when in good earnest; ; or if she welcomes a promise with precipitatio n, she does not do that honour to a menace. The menac e held out, owes its weight to the feelings that called it forty' aid to the res u lt s t h at may i ssue f rom i t. In suc h gro t conjectures, it belongs to wisdom to wait—to judge.- -t° , look t o th e f uture—an d t h at i s t h e present con duct of France. The solemn silence of the two tribunes, testifies what is concealed by this welcome of the whole of a nation' The Chambers have done well to be silent, for to 'Pe ak were not sufficient, and the time of acting is not yet cane' , (From the Qene PARIS, MAY b.—The Duke uo de Dou n dea ) uville sat WI in the Chamber of Peers, in the place which he occuP ie before he joined the Ministry. At his entry into the rooms' the Duke was surrounded by a great number of Peery, v"` . crowded round to congratulate him on his retreat. SHIPPING INTELLIGENCE-(THIS DAY) FROM LLOYD'S. DEAL, MAT B.—Wind N.E.—Arrived, the LaWr Wilson, for Demerara ; and the Ann, Longridge, for the Mediterranean. Poal - smouriv, MAY B.—Arrived, the Vibelia, Ste phenson, from London, for the Cape ; the Sophia, Oise, from Gottenburgh ; and the George the Fourth steamer' from Lisbon, in five days. PLY MO LTH, MAY 7...,Wind E.—Arrived, the William, and Mary, Miller, from, Hamburgli ; and Kerswell, strong, from the Cape. Sailed, the Rapid, Handy', in t Jamaica. FALMOUTH, MAY 7.—Wind N.E. to E.—Arrived, the Plover packet, Jennings, from Brazil ; sailed from lb ° May 9, Bahia May 21, and Pernambuco April 3 ; also er; rived, the Creole , Galloway , from Pernambuco. s ail f"' • 1 the Magnet packet, for Lisbon ; Cynthia packet, for maica ; Countess of ;ehester packet, fo r B raz il; °po r t packet, for Figuera ; and the Mary, for the Carrot)' Islands. MAY 7.—Arrived, the Wiley, Sts ver' GRAVRSEND, and Tuscan, Stayers, f rom th e S ou th S eas ; BritanTl ' Cumming, from St. L uc i a ; N es bit, Si m p son , and P f " - tannin, Hearn, f rom J ama i ca ; Ni m bl e , S co tt, from 'fens' riffe ; Priam, Stroyan, from A n ti gua . S a iled, the Lady 111`Neg ht° Smith, from Charleston; and T e P " Faith, and Grecian, Allen, for Madras. Sr. HELENA, MA RC H 23.—The Elizabeth, GAL s in rived from the Mauritius, sailed from thence ean) n „„ February ; p rev i o us to which, several Dutch and Ame rw- i vessels had put in there dismasted, amongst them a p air ship from China. and Time Repulse, Gribble, from London to 13eng a, China, was spoken with on the sth of March, in Lat. t i South, Long. 22, by the Offley, arriv e d from the Sou I Seas. re M ARL:AT E, MAT 7.—Two boats Were driven on P h ° at Bishopstone, during the gale last night. One of til e is marked Ringdove , of Newcastle, and the other is a wi n ' - boat, marked Offley. M EM onalloust.—The Ringdo ve , f rom Oporto, an dhe Offley, from the South Seas, are arrived in the river. CORN EXCHANGE.—(This DAY.) fullY 1 --q; The supplies of this week are moderate. wheat , ro ports the prices quoted ,;s Monday. Barley is unaltered'. Ti o Rana and Pease rather snore money is asked, but thellemelte much doing. Oats well support the prices quoted Ittt ur . day. There is no alteration at present in the price a rw • ARRIVALS. 1100 1 Wheat. Barley. Oat' , i 4 we/. English Irish Foreign 2,700 . 11 . 5 A 3 9_ , , 60; 00 ) qrs. 1,1001r5. ? ...7_ ,010 qrs. ..................., . ,