The Sun. — London, England, 1861-04-27 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. • - HOUSE OF LORDS-YESTERDAY, The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. _ _ . THE MARRIAGE LAWS. Lord WODEHOUSE presented petitions numerously signed in favour of legalising the marriage with a d ecea sed wife's' sister, from Birkenhead and Liverpool. THE BANKRUPTCY BILL. The LORD CHANCELLOR presented several petitions In favour of this bill. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Clifton and Durdhata Downs (Bristol), the Garston and Liverpool Railway, Marlborough Railway, and Exeter Railway Bills were read a second time. The Great Northern of Scotland Railway and the Leigh District Gag Bills were read a third time and passed. THE GOVERNMENT OF INDIA. Lord LYVEDON presented a petition from the inhabi tants and taxpayers of Calcutta and of Bengal Proper com plaining of the system of government in India. The noble lord said he differed from some of the statements in the petition, but in others he entirely concurred. The petition contained the names of persons of great importance in India, and also the names of nearly all the gentlemen in the legal profession in practice there. The complaints of the petitioners were the great increase which had lately taken place in the taxation of the a country. Her Majesty's Government had taken the unusual ui course of sending out a special financial co mmissioner,and various heavy imposts had been peoplemadeonthe there. The pttitioners particularly referred increase of the Mysore grant, which was said to the to ab sorbed half the sum produced by the income tax. Raving applied to the legislative council for information, th e peti tioners had been repulsed, and this he considered th e rea l grievance of the petitioners. They moreover complained of the manner of the military expenditure of the Indian Go vernment, while they stated that the military expenditure at home was economical at the expense of India. Tho petitioners also complained . that there were no exact ' estimates of the cost of the Indian army—(hear, hear) — nail they most earnestly urged that some steps might be taken to remedy this state of things for the future. Another of the prayers of the petition was that the members of the Council of India should have seats in Parliament, and also that the number of those gentlemen might be increased. lie thought there was great objection to the Legislative Council of India, and thought it absolutely unnecessary for the well being and good government of India, and ho concluded by asking in which of the two houses the mea sure relating to India would be brought forward. . Earl DE GREY and RIPON said he was unable to state the precise time at which the bill would be brought for ward relating to the Council of India, but it was in a very forward state, and would be brought under the con sideration of the other house very shortly. The noble earl had touched upon the Mysore grant, but the ultimate re • suit of that transaction would be that, whereas, under for mer arrangements, certain districts were set aside for sup plying the wants of the Mysore princes, that family would now be provided for by an annual charge of £17,000: He thought their lordships would come to the conclusion that the arrangement made for those • princes was much more conveniently provided for than for merly. With reference to the motion for papers on this subject made in the Legislative Council in Calcutta, he was surprised to hear his noble friend approve of that part of the petition. He altogether deniedlhat the Legislative Coun cil was a Parliament, or had the right to exercise the func tions of a Parliament. He thought it highly desirable to have depots at home for the regiments in India; and with respect to the India accounts relative to the military expenditure, papers relative to them would be laid very shortly before Parliament. He altogether denied that the Secretary of State had power to make an uncontrolled charge on the revenues of India. The Duke of ARGYLL defended the passing of, the act of 18:53. • The Earl of ELLENBOROUGH said he condemned from the first the constitution of the legislative council. He saw from the first their desire to nibble at the religion of the people, and he attributed to that council more anything else the outbreak of the late mutiny. If the Government entertained feelings against the council, he trusted they would have the courage to abolish a body which was inconsistent with the honour, the credit, and the strength of the goverment in India. After a few Words from the Marquis of Clanricarde and Earl Grey, the subject dropped, and their lordships adjourned. ROUSE OF COMMONS —YESTERDAY. INDISPOSITION OF THE SPEAKER. At a quarter to four o'clock the Clerk of the House read a letter from the Speaker, stating that from illness arising from rheumatism he was unable to attend the house this evening, but that he hoped to be able to resume his duties on Monday. Mr. Blissny, the Chairman of Committees, then took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the South Eastern Railway (Capital, &c.) Bill were considered and agreed to. The Dublin, Wi c kl ow , an d Wexford Rail way,with amend ments, was also considered. The Lancashire and Yorkshire Rail way (Bootle Branch, &c.) Bill was read a third time. The Newcastle and Under Lyme Marsh' Land Bill and the Sneyd's Branch Railway Bill were considered and ordered for third reading. THE DANISH CLAIMS. • Mr. MACAULAY presented a petition from Thomas Ward on behalf of himself and others, claimants against the Crown for losses incurred in the Secret Expedition to Copenhagen in 1807. The iron. and learned member read sonic extracts from the petition, which stated that the claimants were British merchants, and that a Royal Com mission had examined their claims and adjudicated • in their favour in 1810. Their report was presented to the House of Commons by her Majesty's Government, and in 1841 a committee of the whole house passed a resolution voting a "money addre:s," which was presented by a member of the Privy Connell to her Majesty, who expressed her desire to give effect to the wishes of the House of Com mons in this instance. However, notwithstanding these proceedibgs, the p e titi oners ' claims were unliquidated, and they prayed the house to redress the grievance, which arose out of an exceptional event in the history of the civilised world. The hon. member gave notice that he;ouldcallthe attention of the house to the subject on a future occasion, and move a resolution in reference to the subject. DERRYMACASH RIOTS. Sir W. VERNER moved for copies of the several infor mations and dying declarations in relation to any of the cases of homicide, riot, illegal or party processions, or other criminal offences, alleged to have been committed in the county of Armagh in the month of July last, taken before a magistrate ; also of entries in the Crown book in reference to such proceedings, as well as other information on the subject.—Ordered. COURTS MARTIAL IN INDIA. Mr. FREELANI) asked the Secretary of State fer India, whether copies of the findings of the courts martial ap pointed in India fur the trial of officers charged with in sulting Mahometans while engaged in religious worship in Egypt, and of any reprimands or comments on the proceed ing of the courts. martial by Sir Hugh Rose, had been re ceived by the Government; and whether there would be any objection to lay such copies, if received, upon the table of the house ? Sir C. WOOD 'said that he was happy now to be in a position to produce communications from Sir Hugh Rose, and he would lay them on the table of the house it the hon. member would move for them. MEMBERS OF THE BOARD OF NATIONAL EDUCATION, IRELAND. Mr. LONGFIELD asked the Chief Secretary for Ire land when he would furnish the return, ordered by the _ house, of the names, Sze., of the members of the present Board of National Education in Ireland ? Mr. CARDWELL said that, by the returns of the house, he found that the return had been laid on the table of the house, and a portion of it had been printed. THE LATE CAPTAIN BRABAZON. General PEE G asked the noble lord the First Lord of the Treasury, in the absence of the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, who was prevented attending from illness, what steps the Government had taken to ascertain whether the report of the murder of Captain Brabazon, of the Royal Artillery, by the Chinese, was true; and, whether the information received is derived from the personal knowledge of the informants, or rested merely on Chinese rumour? THE ALLEGED OUTRAGE ON CAPTAIN MAC DONALD. Lord R. CECIL called the attention of the house to the outrages on Captain Macdonald at Bonn ; 4 and asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs if he in tended to take any steps for the protection of British subjects travelling in Prusaia. The noble lord detailed the circumstances connected with the event, and contended that it was important to English travellers that state statement should be made by the Government on this POt the 'l l ieet, and he censured in very strong terms the conduct Prussian authorities as unjust, illegal, and b: arbitrate He " thought the authorities ought to Pursoi ti , 'valued of the da nger w hi ch they incurred in went to our elar conduct. Before English tr ave ll ers ra GOVernmew they ought to he made acquainted by their with p,43.li,artuat travelling in that country was attended r,enrded E nzhah Z t P n ts and annoyances, particularly as CA P Mr. GREGORY atm.. TAIN :CItABAZON. rf ith reference to the alle ge d f a t e ()aptain Brabaeon, who w 7 Lodi, thrown as stated to have b een decapi tated ca ' ' 111. -111 1° a cl .o aln, that there . were so many it was asked why - canml had not bee n cirage4 of the , t boa of th e C h i nese in diwehich it was r e pli e d it that it would have been impossible to have di scovered the body of Captain Brabazoa out of th e multitude of other bodies. He loca had been informed or 1, thy-a gentle man who wa s ted in the n e i g hbourhood e canna at the time in question, that he had not seen a human body in the canal. He referred also to documents from. Chinese a uthoritie s to show that the statements as to the death o f Cap. rain Brabazou were inaccurate, And that he Was alive twenty days after his alleged death. He thought that, considering the operations of the Chinese artillery, it was evident that they were directed by other than native engineers. Ho suggested, therefore; that the military authorities might have been induced to have separated him from his fellow-prisoners, with a view to avail themselves of his military knowledge. He thought it was a duty to the bereaved family of the gallant officer to make inquiries to ascertain his fate, and he praised Lord J. Russell for the interest he took in his fate. CAPTAIN MACDONALD. Mr. MALINS said that Captain Macdonald had en trusted his case with the house to him. He recapitulated some of the leading and well known circumstances con nected with the case. He thought the noble lord at the head of the Government was bound to make some expla nation on this subject, and the house to give an expreision of feeling that would show the Prussian people that the people of this country resented as a national indignity the conduct of the Prussian officials in re gard to this affair. THE POPE AND CARDINAL WISEMAN. Mr. NEWDEGATE called attention to the report which appeared recently in the Independence Belge in reference to the succession of Cardinal Wiseman to the Papacy under the title of Pio Decimo, in the event of the voluntary or co mpulsory abdication of Pio Nono. He should have thought very little of the report of the Belgian paper, did it not add, on the 22d, that Cardinal Wiseman, the Primate of England, was to be the representative of the Papacy in the event of`the death of the present Pope, or any other contin gency which would put an end to or suspend his authority. The report went on further to state that this project was not put forivard by Cardinal Antonelli, but Cardinal Alriera, that the number of cardinals in its favour was 24, and that only four or five hesitated as to its adoption. Now it would not be an acceptable circumstance if Cardinal Wiseman, already exercising functions contrary to the law of this country, should be acting as Pope, and exercising the full functions of the Papacy until a successor was appointed, with powers to call an (Ecumenical Council for the election of a new Pope. The Ecclesiastical Titles Bill distinctly de. dared that no matters connected with English property should be decided at Rome; but now a Pope would be for mally inducted into England, who would of course decide on these matters. Recollecting, as he did, the feeling created in this country in 1851, when the authority of the Crown was defied, and its independence invaded by a foreign Power, which usurped its authority ; knowing, too, that the Council at acted in the most audacious manner, and that its decisions were never departed from, he wished to call the attention of the Government to the statement he had just made, and to the fact that Count Montalembert asserted, of the Ultramontane party, that Rome was able to copmit acts in England which she could not do in Naples even in the time of the Bourbons. REPLY. Lord PALMERSTON said—l quite go along with the hon. end gallant officer opposite in the feelings he has ex pressed with regard to Capt. Brabazon, It is very painful for the relatives of Capt. Brabazon to be kept in a state of doubt as to his fate, more distressing than the certainty that would be adverse to their hopes. I therefore entirely sympathise with the anxiety the hon. and gallant officer has so well expressed to ascertain, if possible, the real truth as to what has happened that gallant and distinguished officer, Capt. Brabazon. But putting together all the cir cumstances from which we can draw any conclusion, I am afraid we cannot arrive at the conclusion expressed by my hon. friend en this side of the house. lam afraid the friends of Capt. Brabazon can only receive this consolation—that by the suddenness with which his fate was sealed, we may conclude he escaped those lingering and barbarous torments to which his more unfortunate comrades were subjected in their last hours. At the same time, if it is possible to enter tain any hopes of his surviving, I can assure the gallant general and the house that the noble lord at the head of the Foreign.office has taken every means that can be taken to clear up this mystery. As far back as February the noble lord sent out most stringent instructions to Mr. Bruce to take every means, official and unofficial, for the purpose sef ascertaining distinctly the fate of Capt. Brabazon; and I am bound in justice to the Russian Government to say that, as it was sending a new Minister to Pekin, instructions were given him by his Government that the first duty he had to perform was to use every means in his own power, and to correspond with Mr. Bruce, in clearing up the fate of this gallant officer. (Cheers.) At the same time there is no kindness in endeavouring to encourage hopes so likely to prove unfounded ; it is better that those interested in the fate of Captain Brabazon should, if possible, take the darkest view of the matter, till the certainty can be arrived at. And there is also this circumstance to be considered; I believe the Chinese authorities have ac counted for all the prisoners except two—Capt. Brabazon and M. De Luc. They either sent them back living, or their bodies were produced ; and if the bodies of these two gentle men were thrown into a canal, as represented, that will ac count for their not being produced after the demand for them. I should be too happy if the supposition of my hon. friend should turn out true. If so, I have no doubt the in fluence of the British and French Governments will effect the release of those two gentlemen from the duresse in which my hon. friend supposes they may have been kept by the Chinese authorities. (near.) With regard to that point, the noble lord has taken the steps I have described, and I am net aware that any other stets can possibly be taken- With respect to the other question, put by the noble lord (Lord R. Cecil), on the transaction in which Capt. Mac donald was concerned, the whole of that transaction is ex plained in the papers that have been laid before Parliament. I can only say, I do not think that any expression used by the noble lord at the head of the Foreign-office during the discussion is a bit too strong—(cheers)--to stigmatise the conduct of the Prussian officials. (Cheers.) It is not for us to stand here and bandy vituperation with M. Moller, or any one else; but I only say that I agree with the opinion expressed by the noble lord in his concluding despatch ; and though we are told that the whole proceedings were within the limits of the Prussian law, I think they were of a most unfriendly character, and most unworthy of a Government in alliance with England. (Cheers.) I must say I am astonished that a Government like that of Prussia, represented in its foreign department by a distinguished nobleman, who spent many years in England in a diplomatic capacity, and who should himself 'therefore know the feelings and habits of the people of this country—(hear)--I am astonished that the Prussian Government, looking, as it was bound to look, at the circumstances of the case, should not at once have said, " Our officials have not overstepped our law; we are bound to tell you that; but, summon jets setnona injuria. We know that if a similar case had occurred in England; you, the English Government, would have gone before our demands to make every honourable apology and every com pensation, if compensation were necessary, and we feel it due to ourselves, as a great Power in Europe, to tell you that we entirely condemn the conduct of our officials, and are ready to make every satisfaction which, as between gentleman and gentleman, Capt. Macdonald could require." (Cheers.) The Prussian Government had every motive far doing this. (Hear, hear.) It is impossible to cast your eye over the face of Europe and to note the relations of the different Powers to each other without seeing that it is the interest of Prussia to cultivate not the friendship of the English Government only, but the good opinion and the goodwill of the English nation—(cheers)—and therefore should say that their conduct in this affair has been that which a distinguished French diplomatist has described— it has been a blunder as well as a mime. (Cheers.) lam eked what steps the British Government have taken or can take in this matter. It was impossible to have demanded from the Prussian Government either compensation or apology if they were unwilling to make it, because we were told by the law officers of the Crown that, however harsh, unjust, arbitrary, and violent their proceedings were, yet those proceedings appeared to be within the limits of the Prussian law. One regrets for the sake of the Prussians that they should have such a law. (Loud cries of Hear.) But that being the case, it was impossible for the British Government to press any demand upon the Government of Prussia. Well, then, what warning are we to give to Bri tish subjects is to such acts ? Sir, I think the notoriety which this transaction has received, both through the news; papers all over the country, and through the discussions in this house, will prove as great a warning as could be given individually to gentlemen desiring passports for Prussia. (hear.) I think, however, that a warning will also have been given to the Prussians—(hear, hear)—when they know, as they will, the universal indignation with which this proceeding has inspired every Englishman—(loud cheers)—and whatever influences may operate, as they no doubt do—party influences, for instance—upon the feel ings of persons in authority, I think that that which has happened is not very likely to happen again. With regard to the question ',put to me by the hon. baronet respecting Syria, I am sorry to say that I do not think it would be consistent with the public interest to produce any papers on the subject to which his question relates —namely, what Go vernment is to be established in Syria, as a permanent arrangement. These arrangements are not yet settled. They are still under discussion by the members of the Commission —by the Turkish Government and the different Powers re presented in the Commission—and until the Commissioners have come to some conclusion and a settlement is made it would not be desirable or useful to produce the different arguments which each party may have urged in favour of the particular modification supposed by each to be best. I can only say that ',believe all the Powers are equally de sirous of accomplishing the same ultimate object—namely, that of securing to Syria the authority and the Government most likely to prevent the recurrence of those unfortunate events which have led to the occupation of Syria by a French force. (Hear.) The hon. gentleman (Mr. Newde gate) has asked me a question founded upon a paragraph which he has read from the Independence Belge, stating that certain contingent arrangements have been made eeith reference is the death of the Pepe, his abdication, or other cessation of his authority. That statement, was copied into one of the English papers, where I have seen it, but all I can say is that the Government have received no informa tion in any degree bearing out the statement. Of course I cannot pretend to know what are the rules and laws by which the Papal Government is directed, but I should very much doubt whether it is in the power of an existing Pope to make during his lifetime arrangements for carrying on the Government, ecclesiastical en temporal, after his death. That, however, is a matter on which I am not competent t 9 form as opiAlezi, I eau only repeat that we Min mo ist- Mr. COLLINS said he was not going to enter into the question of flogging children in prisons. No doubt they had all been flogged at one public school or another in their younger days. (Ironical cries of Hear, hear.) He rose to call the attention of the right hon. gentleman and the house to the frequent postponements of the Appropriation of Seats Bill, which stood for committee, and to ask the right hon. gentleman if he could name a day when that measure was likely to be brought forward, for he found on reference to the notes of the house it had been no less than eight times on the notice books, and as frequently postponed. At pre sent it stood for next Thursday ; but as it could not possi bly be brought on on that day he would suggest that it would be better to postpone the further consideration of it until after Whitsuntide. He would remind the right hon. gentleman that independent members had not the same in ducement as the occupants of the Treasury bench to remain in the house until two o'clock in the morning to watch this bill. (Hear, hear.) ENCUMBERED ESTATES COURT, DUBLIN. Mr. WHITESIDE rose to call the attention of the house to the matters alleged in the petition of Lieut.-Col. John Henry Keogh, presented to the house on the 14th March last, and in doing so he would mention that the petitioner was entitled to two estates—one in the county Carlow and the other in Kildare. A petition was presented to the En • cumbered Estates Court, Dublin, for a sale of the property, to pay debts contracted by the petitioner's father, and an order for sale was pronounced in August, 1851. The Kil dare estate was sold in 1852, and it was found to realise more than sufficient to discharge all the claims of the cre ditors, and among them the particular debt which was the subject-matter of the petition. It was a judgment debt in the penal eum of £2,000, the bond having been given to one Ann Garstang. The sum due on the bond was £1,001, 1 principal and interest, and the judge ordered that amount to be set aside for the personal representative of Ann Gar stang, and directed that letters of administration should be taken out to her. That was done in May, 1853, and at that time there was no legal personal representative. By the practice of the Encumbered Estates Court, when once the money was allocated by the court the petitioners received no further notice with regard to it, and did not know when it was drawn out. Before the representative could obtain pay ment of the money other persons wrongfully did so, from the officer of the court, and when those persons were called upon to refund it, it was found that they were insolvent, and, consequently, only £OO was obtained from their estates instead of £l,lOO. The trustee of the representative then applied to the Encumbered Estates Court for an order to sell the estate in Carlow, but it refused to make any such order, on the ground that money had once been allocated for the payment of the debt. Proceedings were then commenced in the law courts by the trustee, and the result was, the cowl held he was entitled to judgment fer the amount claimed, tho jnagoe sayin g that tho moues having got into the, hands of the wrong person was no an swer to the case made by the trustee, and that Lieutenant.. Colonel Keogh must obtain redress elsewhere. That gentle man had to pay the sum of £1,655 10s. sd, to the trustee, and £222 16s. 10d. costs to his attorney, in consequence of an error committed by an officer of the Encumbered Estates Court. The reason why Colonel Keogh could obtain no re dress was that the 15th section of the act of Parliament enacted that neither the commissioners of the court nor any person acting under the authority of the court should be liable for anything bona fide done, or omitted to be done, in the exercise of the provisions and powers of the act. The officer having acted under the powers of the act, there was no redress to Colonel Keogh, and the question was whether he was to have any redress rendered to him elsewhere—that was to say, by that house. If there was a fund in court Colonel Keogh ought to be paid out of it; but if there was no such fund, then, as the house had compensated Mr. Barber for injuries done to him, so the Government ought to put Colonel Keogh's name upon the estimates for the amount which he had lost through negligence of an officer of the court. There could be no doubt that a grievous in.• justice had been done to Colonel Keogh, and he hoped the Government would give a satisfactory answer with regard to it. (Hear, hear.) FLOGGING CHILDREN AND OTHERS IN PRISONS. Mr. lIADFIELD said he wished to refer to the subject of flogging children in prisons, and he desired the call the attention of the right hon. gentleman the Home Secretary to the remarkable fact that in these returns for three years there were no lees than 375, out of 851, eases of flogginc , which had taken place by the orders of the visiting justices for breaches of p r i son di scipline. The act of Parliament, which gave power to justices to administer corporal pnnuin ment, could never have intended that suck inuiscriminate floggings as these should take place. (Hear.) In some prisons where there was no corporal punishment, as at Wakefield and elsewhere in Yorkshire, it was found that fewer persons returned there twice. He complained of the infliction of flogging capriciously by the visiting justices, without any limit as to the number of lashes or the instru ment employed. A power like that should be abolished, as it was so capable of being abused. Sir B. LEIGH roN asked the Home Secretary to say whether it was not after an examination made upon oath before the visiting justices, in a proper judicial manner, and in the presence of the prisoner himself, that this punish• ment was ordered for particular misconduct—whether the birch rod, which was applied to boys in prison, was not also inflicted on the children of noblemen and gentlemen, in private, by the head masters of public schools. Mr. BRISCOE, with regard to the flogging, hoped the country would express its indignation, and that the Home Secretary would introduce some change to abolish that dis graceful system. We often indulged in vituperation of fo reign States, and talked of the cruelties practised in the gaols of Naples and Austria. He would plead for the infants, children of tender age, in English gaols. Could it be believed that not a birch rod, but a cat-'o-nine-tails, was laid on a child ? Such a cat, if there were but 20 strokes, would inflict 180 lashes. Men would not be allowed to treat an animal, a horse or a dog, in that inhuman manner. Sir G. C. LE WIS, in answer to the hon. member for Knaresborough, about the Appropriation of Seats Bill, said he was quite unconscious of having shown any want of respect to the house. An opinion having been expressed that the Government were to blame for not introducing their bills earlier in the session, he introduced this bill early, in compliance with a general wish of the house. If he had seen any opportunity as yet fox its consideration in committee, he should not have failed to avail himself of it But Government bills were in a more unfavourable position than those of private members, who could fix them for a Wednesday morning to come on. Government bills could not be taken on any night when there was other important business, such as financial, or committees of supply. He would now repeat, as ho said last night, that on one of the first days after the financial business was concluded he would fix a day for this bill, and hoped to get it made the first order of the day. If he postponed it from Thursday next that was because there was no chance of its coming on that evening, but when Thursday next arrived he might perhaps be able to fix the day. As to the qpestion of flo gg i ng pr i soners , th ere were different classes of cases in which that punishment might be applied in gaols. In one class it was inflicted in conse quence of the sentence of a judge at assizes or quarter ses fions, upon an indictment, the law in eertain cases allowing the punishment of flogging to be inflicted on adults, and in more cases on children. That was the sentence of a com petent court, and inflicted by the gaoler; it was not com petent to the Government to interfere with the mode of its infliction, which rested with the officer, though no doubt the royal prerogative might dispense with the sentence altogether. A committee was now sitting upstairs on the law .of offences against the person, which included most of the cases in which the punishment of flogging was thus in flicted. The particular attention of the committee had been directed to that matter, and their recommendations to the heliee he Tfolll,i not auticipate IMP, This puisiamout was , -1 '. Adderley, C. B. Edwards, NOES Major H. Palmerston, Visct. Angerstein, W. Portescue, C. S. Phillip., g. L. Atherton, W. Gifford, Earl of Proby, Lord. G. L. Bagwell, .1 . . Goldsmid, Sir P. Puller,C. W.: Baring, Thos. Geo. Hamilton, Major Russell, Hastings Barttelot, Major Kendall, N. Somes, Joseph Blackburn, P. Liddell, Hon. 11. G. - Stuart, Major W. Brand, H. B. Locke, John Talbot, C. R. M. Bunbury, Capt. W. 111ackie, J. Whitbread, S. .Bury, Viscount Martin, J. Wickham, H. W. Coningham, Wm. Moncreiff, J. Cowper, Hon. W.F. Mowbray, Rt. Ha. J. Craufurd, E. 11. J Mure, David • Dalglish, Robert Noet, G. J. DuDar, Sir Wm. Ninth, Col. Dshaellwynley,,sLirm.J.il,7L TELLERS, THE SUN,7LONDOII, SATURDAY 'EVENING, APRIL 2 1861, formation which at all corroborates the statement of the Belgian newspapers. The hon. and learned gentleman oppo site asked a question respecting the discussions that have gone on between the British and Brazilian Governments as to certain claims made on the part of British subjects. He is quite right in saying that the conferences have been sus pended. They were suspended in consequence of the Bra zilian Government putting forward claims which we think totally inadmissible--namely, that losses sustained by cer tain Brazilian subjects engaged in the slave trade, and whose ships were captured an disposed of under the Act of 1845, should be part of the losses dealt with by the Com mission. We contend that these captures have nothing whatever to do with the matters for which the Commission was appointed. We hold that no question can arise with regard to what was done una',er the Act of Parliament ; that we were acting within our owN powers, and are not ac oountable to Brazil in respect of this; and we therefore en tirely repudiate the claim of Brazi; to mix up the matter in the questions which were to be considered by the mixed Commission. An answer to that effect went not long ago to our Minister in Brazil. We have not yet received the answer of the Brazilian Government, but lam sure the hon. and learned gentleman will see that while the ques tion is pending it is not consistent with the public interest to give papers respecting it. Colonel DICKSON, referring to a previous ques tion as to the fate of Captain Brabazon, urged the Govern ment to order a most searching inquiry as to the possible fate of that gallant officer. He hoped the noble lord would reconsider his decision, or he should be afraid that if it got abroad that he was impressed with the idea that there was no hope left it might weaken the exer tions of those persons who might be employed in discover ing the real circumstances of the death of Capt. Brabazon. He implored the noble lord to use every means which the influence and wealth of England placed at his command to solve the doubt which existed, and if possible to restore a noble son to his afflicred family and a gallant officer to his country. (Hear.) FLOGGING CHILDREN AND OTHERS IN PRISON. Mr. KINNAIRD asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether his particular attention had been drawn to the returns of la: t session and this session on the subject of flogging children and others in prison, and that in particular in 375 cases in three years out of 854 they had becn inflicted by order of visiting justices in 52 prisons ont of 137; and further whether it was true that children of tender age had received severe punishment for shooting in a cell and other trivial offences ? THE APPROPRIATION OF SEATS BILL. also inflicted by visiting magistrates of prisons, for prison offences. With such offences there was obviously a diffi culty to know how they should be dealt with, because a punishment must then be inflicted on a person who was already in a state of punishment, and some addition to the ordinary means of punishment must be found. The law conferred on visiting justices this power of ordering flog ging for prison offences. As had been correctly stated by the hon. baronet opposite, it could only be done on an in quiry before the visiting magistrates, evidence being taken, and a proper record of that investigation made, which was accessible to the prison inspector when he came round. He was not aware that any cases of excessive punishment by flogging had been reported by any of the inspectors, or made subject of special complaint to the Home -office. If it had been so, it would undoubtedly have been attended to. The complaint against the present prac tice therefore rested entirely on the return now on the table, from which it certainly appeared that in many cases boys of tender age had been subject to flogging by the cat, which was no doubt a severe instru ment, though it did not correspond with the description just now given. One of those boys, at the New Bailey, Salford, was thus punished for repeatedly shouting' in his cell, after being cautioned by the watchman not to do so, that being the seventh offence since he was in the prison . There was a boy of eleven, who received 36 lashes with a birch rod, for the same thing, being his ninth similar of fence in four months. These were probably very incorri gible boys, who had given great trouble to the,prison au thorities. The house might consider if it would alter the law, and lay some restriction on the discretion of the visit ing magistrates, or define the instrument and the number of lashes. But it was not competent for the Home Secre tary to issue a circular and lay down a general rule; under the existing law; though he could inquire into any parti oular case of cruelty, and take steps in consequence. He would consider if it was possible to deal with the subject. (Cheers.) It appeared to be more frequent in some prisons than others, but that might be owing sometimes to the defective construction of the prison. Col. NORTH thought this flogging the most tyrannical and brutal thing he ever heard of in his life. In the army, the flogging of a boy with a cat of nine tails was never heard of, and no soldier could be sentenced by a court martial to more than fifty lashes. They might talk of brutality in the army, but here was far greater brutality. In the army they could not flog without the preliminary of a court-martial, but here a magistrate might go into a pris )n, and flog as many gentlemen as he liked. (Laughter.) Some of the cases in these returns were of the most trivial nature. A little boy was flogged for tearing his catechism; another, for throwing water on a prison officer. Twenty or thirty men were flogged in one gaol, and the governor said they were flogged lightly, and no blood was drawn. This looked as if men were flogged merely for amusement. He would not give this power to any magistrates. CASE OF COLONEL KEOGH. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER was under • stood to reply to Mr. Whiteside, that the above case ap peared to be one requiring investigation, and if an inquiry were demanded, he should not feel justified in opposing such a proceeding. It appeared according to the right hon. gentleman's statement to be held that no misconduct of officers of a court of justice could be punishable, short of public fraud. The ease of Mr. Barber had been referred to, but that was a case of great difficulty, and the wrong, if any, was traceable through its servants to the executive, who were responsible to the legislature. In this case the executive had no direct authority. With respect to the Irish case referred to, there was a means of remedying it out of the funds of the court. THE BUDGET. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, in reply to Mr. Ayrton, said it would be quite out of his power to bring in a bill legalising the budget until the house had in the first instance acceded to the resolutions. Mr. AY RTON intimated that last session the bill was introduced in the first instance, and then in a committee of ways and means the resolutions were proceeded with. It was now proposed for the first time to tax three particular classes of the community. and it was desirable to know why these classes were to be made special objects of taxation. STAFF ASSISTANT-SURGEONS. Lord BURGHLEY asked the Under Secretary of State for War why a large number of staff assistant-surgeons had been placed upon half-pay; and how long it was probable that the state of half-pay, as regarded these officers, would be continued ? The noble lord read a letter describing the case of a gentleman (a staff aszistant-surgeon) who, having gone to considerable expense for an Indian outfit, was sud denly ordered on half-pay, to his great loss and disappoint ment. SECOND ASSISTANT-SURGEONS. General LINDSAY (for Colonel North) called attention to the reduction of the second assistant-surgeons of regi ments of the line. Mr. T. G. BARING said that what he had stated on a former evening was that no second assistant-surgeons were to be placed on half-pay, and the medical officers of the Guards having been provided for in the estimates would not be disturbed. The regimental second assistant surgeons were not included in the estimates. It was considered by the Secretary of State for War and the Commander-in. Chief that the regiments on home service did not require second assistant-surgeons. It was unfnrtnnate that it should be necessary to place a certain number of medical officers on half-pay, but at the same time the uovernment meta uut recommend the house to vote more money for any branch of the service than was absolutely required. In consequence of the Chinese war having terminated and for other reasons, the number of junior medical officers had been reduced by 29, who were placed on half-pay, but who would be again employed at the earliest opportunity. OYSTER DEEP-SEA FISHING. Mr. CAVE asked the President of the Board of Trade whether there was any prospect of inducing the French Go vernment to consent to an extension of the time allowed for the deep-sea fishing in the English Channel. It would be remembered that a fishing convention had been entered into in 1839 with France for the mutual benefit of the two nations—one essential arrangement being that foreign fisher men should not approach within three miles of the English coasts. Since that time, however, oyster beds had been discovered in the deep sea in mid channel ; and while it was known that the French took no interest in this deep-sea fishing, our fishermen were actively employed in it. He believed, if the French Government had the matter brought fairly before them, they would not object to our fishing for oysters in mid chann6l during the fenced months. Mr. M. GIBSON said that in consequence of the repre sentations made to the Government on this subject, France was invited to consider whether it would be desirable to modify some of the provision's of the fishing convention in order to permit oyster fishing to be carried on in the deep sea during the fenced months of May, June, and July. The French Government, however, had come to the con clusion that it would not be to the interest of the oyster fishermen themselves to allow any fishing to be carried on in the fenced months. CATAIN MACDONALD'S CASE. Mr. -v. Esc-131.1,Y tecalled attention to Captain Mac donald's case, and hepea th a t the noble lord would read the papers laid before the house through carefully, as he had dune every word d them, before he made any further representations to the Prussian Government. It was very evident that the noble lord and the hon. and learned gen tleman who followed him, had not read these papers through. The fact was, the less we said about the affair the better; and he hoped so trumpery a case would not be made the nations. means Hag bitter feelings betw e e n th e two Th e in fault was not a ll on one s id e , na m s( s e of fro o fostering for Captain Macdonald used violence, as the witnesses de posed upon oath, and the English residents at Bonn ap plied the term "cowardly" to the Proeureur du Roi. The Prussian Government bad severely reprimanded the Pro cureur du Roi, and awarded him the- strongest punish ment they could, that of absolute dismissal ; while, to the English Government they had made an apology which was almost humiliating. They had declared, that as violence was proved to have been used by Captain Macdonald, they had acted considerately towerds him by punishing him for the minor offence of rudeness to the official, rather than give him a long imprisonment for the act of assault proved. NATIONAL EDUCATION. Sir S. NOR I'HCOn postponed his motion on this sub. jest till that day week. - Mr. M‘MAIION obtained leave to bring in a bill to con solidate and amend the statutes relating to the procedure of County Courts. LAW OF FOREIGN COUNTRIES BILL. The Lords' amendments to this bill were agreed to. RAILWAY COMPANIES MORTGAGE TRANSFER (SCOTLAND) BILL. This bill as amended was considered. The house then adjourned. PARLIAMENTARY DIVISION. HOUSE OF COMMONS—APRIL 25. STREET RAILS. Motion made and question put, "That a Select Committee -be appointid to inquire into the propriety of establishing a mode of Public Conveyance, by means of Iron rails, in Streets and Highways." The house divided—Ayes, 20; Noes, 40. • AY£q —2O. Barnes, Thomas Ileygate, W. U Russell, Sir Wm. Blake, T. A. Kinnaird, lion. A. Westhead, B. Buller, J. W. Lewis, J. Harvey Whalley, G. Jr. Cobbett, J. M. 3PCann, J. . White, Jas. Dunne, Col. Maguire, J. F. Fermoy, Lord Monson, W. J. Hankey, Thomson O'Brien P. Ifennessy, J. P. Ponsonby, A. TELLERS. Brady, John Woods, Henry PARLIAMENT. Ilt 1 COMMITT.EEZ Sir H. Willoughby—What powers have the Admiralty of seeing that the moneys of the State are properly applied as regards wages or the ex penditure for materials ? The Duke of Somerset—They must act through their controller, but the superintendents of the dockyards are constantly communicating with the board as to what is going on in these establish- ments. Sir H. Willoughby —Did you not express to the commission your conviction that the controller had not sufficient authority in the dockyards ? The Duke of Somerset—l did. I said he had not sufficient means of using his authority and know ing what was going on, and 1 think there ought to be another shipwright officer to assist him, acting directly under him. Sir H. Willoughby —Do you concur in the state ment of Sir B. Walker, that during the time be was surveyor there was no controlling power in the dockyards—that there were too many parties communicating with the dockyards to prevent any single control. Do you concur in that, or do you think the complaint was an error ? . The Duke of Somerset—lt would be impossible for me to give a correct notion of what was going on ten years before I was at the Admiralty. My impression was that the controller had not sufficient power, and therefore I increased it. Sir H. Willoughby—Sir B. Walker complained at the end of 1853 that out of 114 letters forwarded relating to the building of ships only ten were seen by his clerks. Under such circumstances and such a system, how is it possible to carry on the busi ness in a satisfactory manner when the head of a department is not made aware of the state of affairs in the dockyards? The Duke of Somerset—lf I were to give an opinion on that point, I should say that bis own shipwright officers were greatly to blame in not calling his attention to matters which they must have known. Sir H. Willoughby—ls there not a great want of accommodation for large ships ? The Duke of Somerset—Yes. I think there are at present two in preparation. This is one of our greatest wants. In 1859 my attention was called to the fact that we were building ships for which there were no docks sufficiently large; but the alteration in the size of vessels has been so recent that no charge can be brought against the late Board of Admiralty for not having provided docks sufficiently large. The committee then adjourned. THE TRANSPORT SERVICE, The select committee appointed in the House of Commons to inquire into the transport service re sumed their inquiry on Thursday —Mr. Lindsay in the chair. The other members of the committee present were Lord Clarence Paget, Admiral Dan combe, Admiral Sir M. Seymour, Mr. Kinnaird, Mr. Brookes, Mr. Longfield, Mr. Dalglish, Mr. Jackson, Mr. H. Baillie, and Mr. Caird. Sir James Graham, M.P., was examined at con siderable length. He said—When I was first at the Admiralty, in 1831, I proposed to Parliament the abolition of the Navy Board and of the Victualling Board, it then being a time of peace. During the long French war no doubt it was advisable that the two a,..parsmanta should be kept separate. In 1831 when I effected this change the Victualling Board and the Transport Board were united, but I always avowed my intention, in the event of a war, of re viving the subdivision, I returned to the Admi ralty in 1852, in a time of peace, and I continued the arrangement as it had existed from 1831 to 1834. The Russian war broke out while I was at the Ad miralty, and I soon discovered that my original view was right, and - that the severance was neces sary. I left the Admiralty in the middle of that war, and my last act before leaving it wns to effect the severance and to create the Transport Board. On the return of peace the Transport Board was abolished. The Board of Admiralty was not cog nisant of any supreme authority other than the Secretary for War, and all requisitions for trans sports for the military service were upon the respon sibility of the Secretary of State for War. lam of opinion that one department should be responsible for the transport of troops and stores until they reach their destination. I see with surprise that after a ship has been fitted out with the concurrence of the military authorities and under naval respon sibility, and even after a charter party has been entered into with regard to the number of men to be conveyed, at the last moment the military com manding officer at the ports from which the troops are shipped has the power entirely to change the arrangement. No naval concurrence is required , but the whole arrangement may be changed within 24 hours, at the will of a military officer and at an increase of expense to the extent of 20 per cent. In point of fact an end is put to al: checii upon the expense. I think that one department should undertake all the transport duties, and be respon sible for them. With regard to emigration I con cur with the Duke of Somerset and the Duke of Newcastle that emigration is about to collapse. It is reduced now to about 5,000 annually; but while emigration still continues under the direction of a public office, I would not disturb the arrange ment which now exists. I believe, however, that emigration will soon come to an end, and when that time arrives I think the important functions now exercised by the Emigration Commissioners in re ference to the execution of the Passengers' Act should be transferred to the Board of Trade. Nor in respect to the transport of convicts would I at present change the existing system, for similar reasons. At the same time I would advocate the concentration of the whole transport service under one department. The Chairman—Who, in your opinion, ought to be the responsible head of that department ? Sir James Graham—That is a most difficult ques tion to answer, and one on which a great difference of opinion exists. The Duke of Somerset is strongly in favour of continuing it under the Admiralty, and so also is Admiral Craigie ; but, on the other hand, the Duke of Newcastle and Colonel Gordon are of opinion that, in the transport of troops, direct mili tary control is indispensable. In my humble judg ment either the maintenance of it under the Admi ralty, or the transfer of it immediately to the military authorities, would be infinitely better than the continuance of the present state of things. Great inconvenience is now experienced in a time of peace, and there might be great danger in a time of war. Lord C. Paget—ls it not absolutely necessary that the transports should be under the naval authorities when great combined movements in a time of war are being conducted ? Do you not think it is posi tively necessary that transports should be under the immediate control and management of the officer commanding the fleet ? Sir James Graham—Those who advocate the transfer of the duties to the War Department con template the necessity of borrowing agents from the Admiralty on important occasions. The Chairman—Would you place the duties in the hands of a board ? Sir James Graham—There is a considerable dif ference of opinion on that point. The Duke of Somerset and the Duke of Newcastle, who entertained different views as to the de partment which should have the control andsuperintendence, were both of opinion that a board was not the best authority to entrust with the management of these matters. I think there is great force in their objections; and yet, when I was at the Admiralty, I did create a Transport Board. By Admiral Duncombe—l would not p7edge myself that the officer at the head of the depart ment should in a time of peace be a naval officer. I should probably incline to the opinion that in a time of peace he should be a civilian, but in a time of war he ought to have the assistance both of a military and naval officer. I should be sorry to see the navy without the means of transport, and Alto. BOARD OF ADMIRALTY. The committee met again yesterday—Mr. Hen ley in the chair. The other members present were Sir M. Seymour, Admiral Dunc om b e , Si r J . Gra ham, Sir H. Willoughby, Sir J. Elphinstone, Lord Clarence Paget, Sir F. Baring, Mr. Corry, and Mr. Whitbread. The Duke of Somerset, in reply to quebtions by Sir H. Willoughby, said—l did not see the report of the Royal Commissioners on Dockyards before it was presented to Parliament. As regards their ob servations on accounts, and their recommendations that a double entry should be furnished, I approve of their!. The Royal Commission was requested to go inter the cost that bad been incurred in the build ing and converting of ships during the last ten years, and give their opinion whether the system had been efficient, and whether the money expended ron ships had been judiciously applied. They were also directed to inquire into the system of control and management of the dockyards, and to suggest such changes as might render the establish ments more effective. Their recommendations must be construed in reference to the inquiries they were directed to make. Sir H. Willoughby—The commission came to the conclusion that the Board of Admiralty was not a convenient mode of governing the dockyards, which are full of manufacturing establishments and fac tories. Does your grace concur in that opinion+ The Duke of Somerset—No, because I think you take a part of the business of the Admiralty sepa rate from all its functions. You must deal with the Admiralty as a whole, and it is impossible to separate the repair from the victualling of ships. The whole must be under one department. Ethere fore do not agree with the recommendations of the commissioners. At the close of the examination of Sir James the committee adjourned. COLONIAL MILITARY EXPENDITURE. This committee met again on Thursday—Mr. Arthur Mills in the chair. The other members present were—Sir George Grey, Mr. Adderley, Mr. Baxter, Mr. Chichester Fortescue, Mr. Childers, Mr. Marsh, Mr. T. G. Baring, and Mr. Ellice. Mr. Whiffer, Accountant-General in the War Department, was examined at some length as to the mode in which the sums contributed by the co lonies for their defence find their way into the Im perial Exchequer. He was requested to prepare and put in a statement of the actual payments made annually by the colonies, from the year 1851-2 to 1861-2, and brought to imperial credit. It appeared from the statements made by the witness that, al though the mode of payment is circuitous, the sums paid ultimately find their way into the Exchequer, and appear in the army estimates. ' Mr. Carter, of the Adjutant-General's office, put in a return of the number of troop of the line, ar tillery, and engineers, in the colonies, according to the last returns furnished to the War Department. Also a return of the average number of desertions from the line during the kat six years, from which it appeared that the average humber of desertions in Canada was 137; in Nova Scotia, New Bruns wick, and Newfoundland, 124; in New Zealand, 36 ; in Australia, 139 ; and at the Cape, 105. Admiral Sir Charles Elliot was the next witness examined. He stated that he was Governor of Ber muda from 1846 to 1853, and from that time up to 1856 was Governor of Trinidad. The proportion of black troops to the white was about 80 to 200. There was very little fear of any disaffection in the West India colonies. He had always entertained the opinion that it was desirable to have a Euro pean constabulary, something in the nature of the Irish constabulary. He thought that the head quarters ought to be at Barbadoes, and that there should be stations at Guiana, Trinidad, and to the leeward. Such a force ought to consist entirely of white people—all Europeans. The number required would be about 400, of whom 150 should be sta tioned at Barbadoes, 75 at Trinidad, 100 at Guiana, and 75 to the leeward. They should be so sta tioned as to be easily concentrated. He thought the Crown should be at the expense of arming, cloth ing, and transporting such t force, and that the cost of rations should fall on the province. He did not propose to dispense with the ordinary local police. The new force ought to be placed under military authority, with an army officer holding the rank of colonel. They would occupy much the same posi tion that the regular troops now occupied, but would be more frequently removed. The sole defence against external attack on the West India Islands must depend on our maritime supremacy. Such small islands must always be at the mercy of any Power that had the command of the sea in time of wa.r. The committee then adjourned, INCOME AND PROPERTY TAX This committee, of which Mr. Hubbard is chair man, met again yesterday; but in consequence of Mr. Hubbard himself being a witness, the public were not admitted for some time. After a short delay, however, the door was thrown open, when we found Mr. Sotheron-Estcourt acting as chairman pro tens , and Mr. Hubbard in the witness box. Mr. Hubbard, in reply to questions by the chair man, said his attention had been more particularly attracted to the question of the income tax in 1852, and from that to the present time he had con stantly given it very close attention, and had been enabb-d by his position as Governor of the Bank of England to watch its workieg. He considered the law as it now existed had many inequalities which required revision by Parliament. He thought that the recent decision of the House of Commons, and the very general opinion which had been expressed throughout the country on the subject, was a auffi cient proof how wide the feeling was as to the ine quality and injustice of the income tax. He thought it would be necessary to abolish the 133 d section of the Income-tax Act altogether. By his plan he proposed to deduct £6O from all industrial incomes up to £lBO a year, and incomes under £lOO he would exempt altogether. In reply to the Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Hubbard said he had not made it his business to inquire what the effect would be of his plan upon the total receipts of the revenue, because his only object was to ascertain what was the justice of the case, and he believed that, though the changes he proposed were very important, they would involve only a very small amount of legislation. With re gard to real incomes, the conviction had grown up in his mind since this inquiry commenced, and after considering the evidence given before the com mittee of 1862, that there was no ground whatever for any exemptions on real property; and refer ring to the instance before the Committee of 1852, it would be found that by far the greater share of trouble and expense in assessing the income tax arose from exemptions on small incomes arising from vested property; it appeared to him, there fore, that there ought to be no exemptions with re gard to income tax in that class. He expected that one result of his plan would be to diminish temptations to fraudulent returns to the income tax. The committee then adjourned. POOR RELIEF—ENGLAND. The select commitee appointed by the House of Commons to inquire into the destitution existing in the metropolis, and the mode of administering the poor laws, resumed their investigation yester day—the Right Hon. C. P. Villiers, President of the Poor-law Board, in the chair. The other members of the committee present were Mr. Bazley, Mr. Kekewich, Mr. Lyall, Mr. Bouverie, Mr. Monckton Milnes, Sir W. Jolliffe, Lord R. Cecil, Mr. Alder man Sidney, Colonel Pennant, Mr. Caird, Sir J. Acton, and Lord Fermoy. Mr. Bowring, clerk to the City of London Union, was examined in reference to the d u t ies and salaries o f the medical officers of the union. He expressed a strong opinion that it would be better to pay them adequate salaries than to give them a small remuneration and grant th em privileges of charging for extras. He saw great difficulty in arriving at any general basis upon 'which the salaries of medical men should be fixed, as the circumstances of different localities widely d.ffered. For instance, taking tte case of Lanca shire and Yorkshire, and of Corn wall—in the former case the duties world be very onorous. while in the latter they would be comparatively light, and it would therefore be unfair to fix the same salary in each case. By Sir W.lliffe—We have about 890 inmates in our workhouse. The children are sent to Han well, where they are much better off than if they were classified in the union workhouse. In point of fact, the classification of children would be little better than renderiug them paupers for generations. The existence of an able-bodied women's ward in a workhouse must tend greatly to increase the seve rity of the discipline. The women require much more strict discipline than the men. By Mr. 111. Milner—With regard to children, I think they ought to be dissociated as far as possible from any idea of pauperism. With that view I would prevent them from ever appearing at the pay table to receive the out=door relief allotted to their menta l ata that is generally th e i r first initi ation gather dependent upon freighting ships in the merchant service. It is desirable to hold freights in check, but I should strongly deprecate reliance being placed exclusively upon the possession of such means. At the commencement of the Russian war I bought the Himalaya and the Prince. One turned out a fortunate bargain—the other a dead loss, with no insurance to cover it. Admiral Duncombe—Do you think that the public service requires that it should have at its disposal a number of troop-ships for short voyages —to Ireland and the Channel Islands, for instance P Sir J. Graham—Yes, and to Gibraltar. I think there is great advantage in employing such vessels for short voyages. With regard to our Indian reliefs. it is a question whether they ought not to be sent out in sailing rather than in steamships ; but leav ing the Indian service out of the question, I am of opinion that a limited number of Queen's trans ports should be retained for the home reliefs. Mr. Baillie—Do you object to the principle of GoVernment insuring the transport vessels against loss ? Sir James Graham—The Government think it better, on the whole, to be their own insurers, and to give the public the benefit of the profit which would arise to other parties from insurance. My observation applies to the stores, dockyards, build ing of ships, and all other matters. They do not insure at all. With regard to the use of steamships as transports for long distances, it must be remem bered that they are very thin iron ships, and that if they touch a rock they go to pieces, with no chance left for those on board. That is a strong argument in favour of sailing ships for long dis tances. I am told that sailing ships do perform long voyages in much less time than may be anti cipated. I think that every order for tha move ment of troops should emanate from the Secretary of State for War, and that the Admiralty should not put itself in communication with the Horse Guards at all. The Chairman —You would leave to the Transport Board the responsibility of settling the sort of ship in which the troops should be conveyed ? Sir James Graham—ln a time of war I would have a military officer acting in conjunction with a naval officer and a civilian. Though not favour able to boards generally, I think a small board in a time of war in this case is necessary. If ex pense were the only question, I believe it would be more costly to employ Queen's transports than to freight merchant vessels. into the mysteries of pauperism. We apprentice, children out of th e un i on, and after they have serve d 40 days they become chargeable to the parish l a which they have b een apprenticed, the settlement having changed. Girl s are generally sent out e t 1 4 years of age, and for tw o years after they leav e the district school they a re v i s i ted by the chaplaie,kl; order to ascert a i n h ow th ey are going on. guardians set their faces, and in my opinion very properly, against sendi ng y oung g i rls to mane"' or to any description of needlework. W e have DI demands for child ren as apprent i ces than we bay children. The Chairman—l b e li eve the fact is notorious that there is a great demand for children ? Witness Yes ; chiefly for domestic sett The children rece i ve an i ndustrial training; 11d,t . believe that a n i n d us t r i a l training out of the We've house is better th an one i n the workhouse. doubt in many cases the children of paupers reolt o a better edu ca ti on t h an t h e children of those L contribute towards the poor rates. If the child are refractory we lock them up for a few hourk si think that n o h arm ar i ses from allowing the women to mix with the good. A s a r o il, rule, we find th a t th e example set by the Well conducted exerci ses a good influence 051„ those who are b a dly di sposed. There would '7, much less chan ce o f rec l a i m i ng the bad if 10., placed them alt oge th er an d afforded them 110,,°4 portunity of judging by the co n d uct o f others IP" their own ought to be. By Mr. Lyall—As to placing them in a refornlS tory, I do not thi n k th ey would go there. I should however, feel disposed to remove respectable yogi girls to some suc h esta b l i shment as that in Grls Ormond-street, p a yi ng t h e amount of their tenance there. By Mr. Alderman Sidney—There are 98 parishe s in the City. of London Union, and they are v ni el k unequally rated t o th e relief of the poor. 3 " highest rates are 6s. and the lowest 6d. Mr. Stockton, churchwarden of St. Pancrag•W4 then called, and as k e d b y t h e chairman to state t u objections he en t er t a i ned as to the control of the a Poor-law Board, an d t h e amendments he would suggest in the l aw . H e sa i d he objected in 4e .1 first instan ce t o th e power exercised by the row law Board of dismissing the masters of workhouse . In his opinion it was a power which ought to he exercised by the guardians alone. The guardial of St. Pancras dismissed their officer in 1852, an° the Poor-law Board declined to sanction this air missal, threatening the board with a writ of mandr mus to compel them to take him back. After cog: siderable correspondence Sir B. Hall and Lore Dudley Stuart, the members for the borough, pro' mised to take up the matter, and after that the hoard heard no more from the central authoriti . , but were allowed to res t i n peace. What tl3° guardians wanted w as s i mp l y t h e power of dig charging an officer if they were of opinion that h: did not discharge his d u ti es proper l y. They lied, local act upon which th e y re li e d f or the poviel" they sought to exercise. The Chairman—Have you had much occasion t ° dismiss your officers ? Have you dismissed Ycu r chaplain ? Wit n ess—Yes. The Chairman—Was it upon the ground of - doctrine ? Witness—We thought he was too Romanisingl fl his tendencies; and as he would not do for us W° got rid of him. We never dismiss a man from ine,„ l4 caprice, and not with ou t f u ll i nquiry. We &,v." dismissed our medical officer about two years ago.. The Chairman—l s th ere any other point 11P°' which you think the law ought to be amended ? Witness—Yes ; I think the power of surcharge exercised by the au di tors i s exerc i sed in a most o'r jectionable manner. The names of particular pe.f" sons who happened to have signed the cheque d'gi allowed are publish e d t o th e wor ld as the names °_ persons who have misapp ropr i a t e d t h e funds of the parish. The old s y s t em o f audit was much bette r than that now adopted. The Chairman remarked that the auditor if! B elected by the chairman and vice-chairman of 0 ° district for which he acted, and was perfectly indv pendent of the Poor-law Board. The committee then adjourned. COUNTRY MARKETS. LIVERPOOL —APRIL 26. There was a small attendance of the town and count trade at this mor n i ng ' s mar k e t , and we had but a lim i t business doing in both wheat and flour at Tuesday's ral . Bailey lower. Oats a limited sale, and oatmeal neglected Barley, beans, and peas were quiet, but without change value. Indian corn in moderate request, and ad to 6d Pe qr lower. MANCHESTER—APRIL 25. English wheat a moderate sale, at fully late rates, b l t other sorts offered f or l ess money, and difficult to (1111" Transac ticns confined to the supply of immediate wants. BIRMINGHAM—APRIL 25. At to-day's market there was a short supply of whe, from the farmers, but the trade ruled slow with the turn I _, ll ' w favour of the buyer. B ar l ey ma i ntained its value. Os 6d and beans is higher. Pees is decline. PLYMOUTH—APRIL 23. The market was active, with a small attendance, but ? 1 ° advance upon the c urrenc i es o f l ast week—English wild wheat, 60s to 665; re d, 48 s t o 56 s per qr; French do., 62: to 64s ; American, 61s to 63s ; Spanish, 69s to 71s ; sian, 60s to 625. Barley i n goo d supply, at 36s to 43s P er qr for malting; grindi ng , 32 s t o 3 65; oats, 24s to2Bs; aAd beans, —s to —s ; flour, 478 to 508. CORK—APRIL 24. The following were the quotations this morning :.-1 ' . 4 ( wheat, 28s Od to 34 s 0 i • white, 36s Od to —s Od; barley it' 3 Od to 20s Od ; oats, 13s 10d to 16s Od. EDINBURGH GRAIN—Arm 24. Wheat on the top 4s Od up average is Od up. Barley on the top 4s Od down ...average is Od (100' Oats on the top Os 6d down average Os 6d down' Beans on the top is Od down average is 10d down' Averages per Imperial quarter. Wheat........ New wheat .... 0 0 0 0-12ths Barley 1 19 11 1-12ths Oats 1 10 0 6-12ths Beans ......... .. -12th Total Supply and Sales. Wheat ..... ...1092 qrs Sold 695 qrs 8ar1ey....... 392 qrs Sold 319 qrs , Oats l3lO qrs Sold 696 qrs Beans 248 qrs Sold 194 qrs EXETERAPRx Wheat, white.. 7s 6d t o 8s 6d I . 6d—Barley 26. y. 4s 3cl to 5s 0 4 a i Ditto new .7s Od to 8s Od Oats .. ... 3s Oa to s Flour, fine, 47s to — s; s econ d s , 45 s to —s per sack. CATTLE. There was a large supply of cattle, with a fair sale, a t about last week's currencies. Fat beef,p score, 1t 's to 11s6d Ewes, per lb .... Id to 7 r , Perk carease s ,d o 9 s 6d t o lO s 6 W ethers, d 0...... 8d to 8 0 Sheep, per lb. Od to —d Fat calves, d 0.... 5d to 61 Rough fat, 44d per lb. DERBY SMITHFIELD —Arum 24. There was a large supply of fat beasts to-day, of tolerable quality; the demand dull, and a clearance not effected' A short supply of sheep, mai„taining high prices. The supply of calves plentiful; but fat pigs were scarce, taw better sold. Beet 7id to 71d Veal 6id t o 7 3 . Mutton .. 9d to 9fd Pork Lamb —d to —d Rough fat, 5s Od per stone' Hides, 3(d to 44d ; calf skins, 5d to 6d. BRISTOL SUGAR—APRIL 26.. The market was more quiet, but as the stocks are light , and a short time must bring in the trade as free buyer, there is no reas on f or an ti c i pat i ng l ower rates. Rene' goods still experience a steady demand, and values &retina. There 7 have been some sales of ruin at 2s per proof gallou• [ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Pills and Ointment. -• Health lost and Found.---After safely struggling througli the winter multitudes will fall victims to the throat an chest complaints so common in the spring. It the firs: symptoms receive attenti on an d j u di c i ous treatment np., only will future d anger b e averte d , b ut old ailments will give way, and better health will be attained than was enjoy before the illne ss . N o t rea t men t f or sa f e t y an d certainty° success may be so confidently relied upon as that discovered by Professor Holloway, whose Pills and Ointment always restore the sufferer. While the Pills are taken in moderat e dozes, the Ointment should be well rubbed upon the skin,. near the part affected, as act i vely as salt is forced into meow BIRTH B. BEATY.—On the 25th inst., at Farnham, the wife of Vi r ° H. It. Beaty, Es f., senator, of a sm. DRAKE.—On the 23d inst., at Forest-hill, Mrs. J. 17-1 Drake, of a son. MAN.—On tho 25th inst., at No. 10, The Crescent, Clap' ham-common, the wife of Frederick Man, Esq., of I. son. MARRIAGES. JEPHSON—BADGER —On the 25th inst., at St. Thomas'* . Dudley, Mountney Je hson, Esq., son of Jas. Sanmare% Jephson, Esq., R.N., to Eliza, youngest daughter of tbg late T. Badger, Esq., of The hill, Dudley. LIMPUSLVERNON.—On the 25th inst , at Sutton, Stara , H nry FraLcis Limpus, Esq., of Magdalen Hall, 0360,rd' to Eleonora Elizabth, second daughter of th e Rev. "' H. Vernon, of Sutton. DEATH& CoucH.—On the 24th inst.. at 6, Gibson-square, falillg; 30., William Oakley Couch, Esq., M.R.0 . 5 ., & c. , _ Kixa.--On the 26th inst., at Sussex. square, Hyde-par/c -gardens, Wm. King, Esq., sged 77. MACDONELL.—On the 23d inst., at Loristoil House, Ki ll. cardineshire, Coptain John MacDonell, R.N. PLATTEN.—On the 20th inst., at North Bow, Platten, aged 79. SPRATT.—On tl.e 19th inst., a t 28 , T ra f a lgar-place, Stoke, Devonport, Michael Spratt, Commander, Royal .AavY, gr. Thoznag aged 86. LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, 01 No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tna SUN (Met, No. 112,Strand* in the Precinct of the SavoY. in the CQUAV of 1i1d,410 00 April 271,1602.1 0 . 9 ,1 1 GIJILut at One 1 11ILDI pitouN of Lon& the Arch m R. GRiPu EO-NIG 29. T. am ee, ft Starch 2. EVAI Ge .ever—Sy( LLegant F Pin Song the main AVans's 1 A RO It Ili the even ye C - Mona. Ls z at Nine o THO . (m Admiral cOntainh TR° Milk. 4( TH° So enclosed, lngdom 1T VO, ' T IT° 31( 01 valual Cultural • press. I Newgate LOND NTOT E and NO held at 11th day of mash the folio , Parliam4 1. "A " $a • " thi 2. " A 46 Ra "S 4 " for " ott , 3. "A " to " As " thi " an A. "A " TOI 5. "A fl R , "fir pu 6. " A "Re " ne " rei • " otl 7. "A m i j u IC R, The fc quired, I to be sul 8. " A Gl pa 44 pu e. " A " K 10. "A " Li 44 p( 11. " R " D " Ei 4, " " (I( " re "R "D 12. "A n'i .. p , 13. ".E " 14. " . {F a "C 15. " A 1., v 44 ( 16. " Si( 41 Ra " fez " pa " th "v 17. " . 18. " 461 ( 10. " ~ i It, 20. " „, i 21. ” 22. a Eusto Lice Meml By th 13: Li and 1 laws. inexl the 1 irrita Ho point Th stree hee abov Loaf of lx enc