The Sun. — London, England, 1825-03-22 00:00:00

arilaing any particular object they may be desirous of inspect leg. However he might regret, Government had no p ower of interfering to alter it.—(Hear !) Mr. HUME was glad to hear the Right Hon. Gentleman condemn the avarice of those exactions to which he had refer red. Every liberal man must do so. It was shameful that those charges should be made, more particularly when it was considered how ample were the funds and other resources of the Deans and Capter of St. Paul's and Westminster Abbey. They actually wallowed in wealth, and ought not to make such a de *land as the present. Mr. W. SMITH was surprised that this subject had notbeen taken up by a Committee of the House of Commons, more par ticularly after the annual complaints they frequently heard of these feesbeing excessive. The present charge was made, not only for repairing the cathedral, but also the monuments erect ed there at the public expence. Yet the public were not per - pitted to see these monuments, which they erected at their own , expense; without an additional expence for permission to di) so. Taere was an iron rail at the north and south ends shutting out - the public from a view of any of the monuments without pay ment. The practice was highly improper, and ought to be -investigated by a Committee of that House. • Sir J. SEBRIGHT said he was quite ashamed, when shew ing Westminster Abbey to strangers, at the charge made at every turn. It was most discreditable to the country.—(Hear, hear !) -1 Mr. HIJME next objected to the grant of 4261. 12s. 6d. to • T. N. Wittwer, Esq. Accountant to the Board of Commis • sioners for the Affairs of India, for having acted as Accountants 4il the part of the public in investigating the accounts between the public and the East India Company, in conformity with tfte recommendation of the Committee of the House of Com mons in the year 1605, from the sth September, 1822, to the sth 'September, 1823, in conjunction with Wm. Wright, Esq. on the part of the said Company, and to defray the expences for 'the same period. Mr. HORTON defended the grant on the ground of the in shspecsable necessity of having a person competent (as Mr. W. 'was) to examine these important accounts. He was not paid by the East India Company, but was the officer employed on the part of the public. Mr. H UME next objected to the item of 3501. to J. Fin lay - soil, Esq. allowance for services at five hundred pounds per annum, for half a-year ended sth April, 1824, and that of his assistant at one hundred pounds per annum, for making calculations connected with public business, for one year ended 10th October, 1824. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER contended that the calculation in which this gentleman was engaged was of the. utmost importance. He had a mind peculiarly capable and suited for the task he was engaged in. The object of these calculations was to make out tables of the greatest accu racy ass to the probable lives of annuitants. In determining the real duration of such lives he had already made some im portant discoveries, and had ascertained the real duration to be greater than it was generally supposed to be. He was engaged in rectifying and improving on the various former calculations on this important subject. This was an occupation of great utility to Government, particularly in respect to their annui tants, and those who were concerned in life insurance. Mr. HUME understood that this gentleman had an office for the liquidation of the debt. If his services were so important as they were stated to be, his undivided attention ought to be given to the subject. Mr. )IONCK bore testimony to the merit and services of Mr. Finlayson, from which he expected not only Life-Insur ance Companies, but the public in general would derive great spect to the removal of those restrictions on trade that had sub sisted for some length of time, still he feared he must trespass on the indulgence of the House while he entered into the mo tives which produced the alteration of system. When he con sidered the many and various interests affected, and the alarms excited, when he looked to the predilections and prejudices that were attached, then it was, he thought, reason for going more at length into the question than otherwise would be necessary.— (H ear !) If the alterationwhich he should propose were in oppo sition to the well-grounded opinion of the country—if he did not feel that the opinion, as far as it went against the new system, was erroneous, he certainly must pause before he brought toward the measure; but that new system lately introduced was not innovation, it was improvement—an improvement keeping pace with changes now made necessary by the change in the circumstances of the country.—(Hear !).--and when these cir cumstances changed, it became the duty of a practical states man to alter his policy as to keep pace with the changes of time and of circumstances.—(Hear !)—He was no advocate for in novation. With this degree of qualification, he, however, was an innovator—it was when lie had the sanction of new circum stances for the application of new measures.—(Hear !)—He felt that the experience of every day proved the necessity for that departere from old notions of trade; still, however, there were vast interest: at stake, and it therefore behoved the House to weigh the matter before they came to any resolution, or made up their minds upon it. The Bight Hon. Gentleman went on to say that originally he intended to bring three propositions be fore the House that night. The first was respecting the Colo nial Trade, with a view to the removal of certain restrictions that bettered the Commerce of the Colonies. The second was relating to the prohibitory duties on Foreign Manufactures, and the duties on the Exportation of Raw Manufacturing Ma terials. The third proposition which he intended to submit, related to the Shipping Interest of the Conntry, and was with a view to the adoption of certain measures for its improve ment. When, however, he looked narrowly into the details of the several questions, and when lie considered their import ance, the interests involved, and the opposition likely to be raised to some of them, he felt it advisable to postpone the two last, and for that night confine himself exclusively to the first. And he would again entreat the patience 'of the House while he entered at some length into the colonial policy of the country.— This was a most important branch of commerce; it was most important and interesting too to those who looked at the long established rules that strictly interdicted all interference with colonies except to the mother country, that upheld such a mo nopoly and prevented all others from either serving or being served by them. Indeed the only light in which colonies ap:. pealed was what might possibly be extracted from them, with out the least regard to a reciprocity of advantage. If the House wanted an illustration of such a system, let them look to Spain, the country that carried it to the greatest lengths, and was (if he might use the expression) the most exclusive of all others.—(Hear, hear, hear !)—And yet, perhaps, if other countries were narrowly observed, they would not appear much less jealous. Every country mote or less cherished the idea that all the rest of the world should be shut out from their re spective Colonies. So universally did the system prevail, that it actually became a part of the international law ; and Prize Courts, in accordance with the principle, had not unfre quently decided that neutral vessels conveying the produce of Colonies even to the Mother Country, were legitimate prizes to the vessels of that very country. Had no change taken place in the colonies of Europe within the last few years to make de parture from such a course necessary? What, was there no thing in the state of Brazil ? What was the present situation of St. Domingo? And, if a greater example were required, the House had it in the great Consular and Continental state of South America. He would pass from these countries forming colonies, and would ask the House what must be the result of a consideration of those it still retained—the extensive island of Cuba, for instance, and Porto Rico ? It was a matter of se rious importance to weigh well the influence these changes must have on their own colonies. What, could it be possible that any one would say that there was not a sufficient case made out ; or that, in the midst of so many changes, this country should make no corresponding one ? He thought En gland, as well from a regard to her own interests as from a feeling of partiality to her colonies, should generous ly reciprocate the blessings of commerce ; and he asked, where was the man who could deny that such a course would not be beneficial to themselves, as well as to the colonists? He was sure the House would see the impolicy of going on further in the old course, and of continuing and, as it were, perpetuating a sys tem of monopoly so totally in opposition to every principle of freedom of trade. Such a system of policy must eventually weaken the attachment of the colonies to the Mother Country, a circumstance which no man in his senses could call prac tically safe or politically wise. —(Hear, hear !)-lle entreated the House to turn its attention to the revolutions that had taken place within the last 50 years in that expanse of country be tween the St. Lawrence and Cape Horn ; and he called On them to adopt such measures as would meet the changes that were occurring. It was necessary to pursue sonic course with reference to the continental and insular commerce and nevi- gation of this country as would enable it to meet the grow- 1 ing commerce and navigation of other countries, and parti cularly of America ; and it became those who had the charge of the commerce.of this country, to weigh well and consider the best means of ensuring that object. With respect to the subserviency in which colonies were kept, lie believed he might safely say, no country exhibited greater perseverance on the one hand, and relaxation on the other. To show how groundless were the apprehensions entertained of the ill effects of the con templated measures, he would beg to refer the House to the state of Ireland. That country, until the year 17110, was held in the character of a colonial dependency. Only forty years ago it was proposed to give her a direct trade to the West In dian Colonies ; it was proposed also to allow her to export glass to foreign countries; yet the House would perhaps recollect 17ow great was the opposition given to these proposals : it was declar ed that she had already received sufficient boons; that if more were granted its effect would be to make her more, and that eventually she would eat up the commerce of England; but that, in fine, if it a ere not impossible to satisfy her, she would be then perfectly so, anti ask no more concessions. What did the House think England, in the fullness of her liberality, granted to that country ? he would tell them : Eng land was at that time at war with America, and privilege was given to the Irish to export butter and beef to the Colonies That was certainly great liberality, but it did not stop there-- Ireland sent troops to fight for England to America, and in return she was allowed to export as much of her manufactures as would clothe her own soldiers, and provisions enough to support as many soldiers as she had in her own pay.—( Laugh ter, and cries of " Hear, hear !)—At that time there were pe. titions from various parts of England, and it would be worth while to look into them, to see how far their predictions were accomplished. One of diem was from Glasgow ; it prayed that no concessions, either for the present or for the future, be made to Ireland; that any concessions must materially affect not only the interests of Great Britain but also those of Glasgow.—(A laugh.)—Above all lie deprecated granting to Ireland any the slightest interference with the sugar trade of the West Indies, to which the aforesaid port of Glasgow, as appeared from the petition, claimed an hereditary right.—(Laughter.)—The Right Honourable Gentleman proceeded to say that a si milar petition was forwarded from Manchester. The third petition was from Liverpool, a town which had but then lately risen to a state of prosperity and commercial opulence, and it was represented in that petition, that if those proposals were adopted that town and port would be reduced very spee dily to its original insignificance. It was not very surprising, therefore, that with these statements, so earnestly made in this House by such bodies of mercantile and commercial men, it became impossible to sustain at that time those proposals for benefiting the trade of Ireland. In the year 1779, after the de feat of these first proposals, a very limited proposal was made, it being confined merely to that of allowing Ireland to purchase sugar for her consumption from the West India Colonies; but that also was rejected. Soon after, however, circumstances oc curred which made a different policy necessary. At the end of the year 1779 the American war broke out, and then very state necessity made it necessary for the Government to yield to that oppteition which under other circumstances it would not have done.—(Hear !)—ln consequence therefore of this event, these oppressive restrictions continued up to the period when that Act was repealed. lie would not go through all the details of what had been done towards effecting the.melioration of our policy to wards Ireland; it would be sufficient to say that we had gone on from time to time removing one restriction and then another. Prejudice by degrees had given way, until about two years ago we had been enabled to remove every obstacle to what might be called the Union Trade, and that, proceeding in the same course, we had now ultimately established what might be denominated a free coasting .trade for that country.—( Hear !)—He had now taken a cursory view of those principles which had been acted upon towards Ireland, and he would ask any Hon. Member in this House, or any person who had at all observed the effects of the course thus pursued, whether any of those dangerous results which had been so fearfully prognosticated had hap pened, either to the shipping, the manufacturing, the agricul tural, or any ether interests of this country ? lie would ask whether, after all that had been granted to Ireland, England had at all suffered ? nay, whether, after every concession that had been made, England had not shared in the advanta g es as well as Ireland herself ? lie would address himself to that town which lie was proud of having the honour to represent—a town which in its rise had exemplified in their fullest extent the great. benefits resulting from a system of unrestricted commerce—be would ask his constituents whether any circumstance had con tributed more to that result, or had assisted more to the growth of that port, titan these concessions ? He would ask whether it was not owing to this very trade with Ireland that that very port, the ruin of which was pretended to be seen in the dawn of these measures,. had attained its present greatness ?—(llear, hear, hear !)—He feared he was entering at too great a length benefit. On the question that 1,2871. 9s. 6d. be granted to John Walker, Esq. Superintendent of the Winkel Establishment in Ilerbiee —bills drawn by him on account of the expences of that Establishment— Mr. HUME felt it necessary to make a few observations on that item. Some impatience being manifested by the House, the Hon. Member said, though it might not at first sight appear important, still that in it was involved the principle of employ ing the free labour of slaves. At present there were three or four thousand slaves employed as free labourers, and this was done at the instance of Hon. Members who were continually urging and calling on Government to make the experiment.— It turned out, however, that the slaves did not pay by their labour foe their support, but were a continual incumbrance on this country. Five years ago he had called the attention of Government to that circumstance, and still in 1825 he found the same cause of complaint. He begged particularly to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer now to,it, as he feared the Right Hon. Gentleman, from his great press of busi ness, had not time to look narrowly into every thing. If he paid more attention to these matters, he would not, as then, place all at the disposal of the Colonial Department. The lion. Gentleman, after some further remarks, submitted to the House whether it would not be better for the country to manumit the saves altogether than have them as they then were—a total loss to the community. It was unfair for Government to pay private individuals, West India proprietors for instance, after the example they were themselves affording. When they tailed on these gentlemen lie would tell them to look at home. • They can have no excuse for meddling with public property _IA, the time they were talking of an infringement on private 'property. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, the cir cumstances connected with the question were rather peculiar. Berbice was originally a Dutch settlement; the slaves belong ed to the Government, and were transferred to the English Go vernment on the taking of that place. A new system of man . weenient was proposed to be adopted with regard to his Majes ty's slaves, which it was supposed might prove an useful ex a;nPle to other parts of the British dominions. They were placed - under the controul of Commissioners, who, he had no doubt, were good individuals ; be made no doubt but they possessed considerable zeal, but were, like many honest indi- I victuals, considerably defrauded. The slave s a g ain came into the hands of Government. It was certainly seen the establish- Ment did not pay its own expence, but that could be no reason for manumitting them, unless it could be shewn that their manumission would relieve the country from the weight of their support ; for surely they could not refuse 'to them sup port if they were unable to provide it for themselves e for his part, he rather thought their manumissions would prove a hoanty to idleness; it would induce them not to v:ork, but rest solely on the Government for support. The Right Honoura ble Gentleman went on to say that however unsuccessful the attempt had been; still the object in view and the motive, were nextt in niakin:e the experiment. The House must see the dsneeerous consequences of any premature step in so delicate an atfair as the present. The interests of every man having property in slaves was intimately c oncerned, and therefore he A lenrecated any hasty steps, at all events let time be affbrded fora further trial. Mr. PLOMER said a few words, which were inaudible in tbe Mr. « . SMITH denied that all the slaves, for whose sup port the present demand was made, were all able to work, as a great proportion of them were helpless children. The Hon. Gentleman concluded by saying, that the clearest inference . that could be drawn from the .whole matter respecting the Cemraissioners was, that all who wished to have their pro perty well managed should go over and take care of it them- selves. Mr. W. HORTON deprecated the continual system of at tic:l.: made by the Hon. Member (Mr. Hume) in his depart ment. With regard to the manumission of the slaves, he thought no measure more likely to endanger the West Indian interest than letting loose the Government slaves. After a few Words from Mr. W. S...tirrn and Mr. HU ME, in explanation, the vote was agreed to. The next item was the sum of 7,3811. 7s. 10d. to J. W. Imah, Esq., Chief Bailiff of the Tower of London, to defray the expences of his office for the year 1g25. Mr. HUME objected to it. There were, he contended, fees paid to the officer more than equivalent to his trouble. These , fees were always, after the good old practice, doubled by every succeeding officer. At present the fees received from persons going 'to see the lions, as it was called, exceeded 3,0001.. or 4,0001. a year. Mr. II ERRIES said a few words in explanation, after which the vote was' agreed to. IRISH ESTIMATES. Mr. GOULBURN moved an estimate, the exact nature of which we did not understand. Mr. HUME said there was one particular in it to which he must object; it• was the salary to the Dublin Aldermen.— (Hear I)—He saw no reason why the Aldermen of Dublin should he paid any more than those of London. He begged the Right Honourable Gentleman to postpone the item alto gether to some future night, as lie was unwilling then to detain the House, and he felt it his duty not to let the vote go uncan v ass ell . Mr. GOULBURN replied, that the ehargefor the Aldermen was in accordance with an Act of Parliament. Mr. HUME thought that no reason for not objecting to it, with a view to an alteration in the plan. The consideration of the vote was then postponed. EXCHEQUER BILLS. •On the motion of Mr. HERRIES, a sum of 820,000/. was voted to defray the interest on Exchequer Bills. The House then yesumed, and the Report was ordered to be brought up on Wednesday next. COLONIAL TRADE. The House resolved into a-Committee of the whole House to take into consideration the resolutions respecting colonial trade, and for affording increased facilities to our commerce and navi gation, of which Mr. Ii USKISSON had given notice.—He pro ceeded to say, that although the resolution which he intended proposing was entirely in accordance with his Majesty's Speech from the Throne, and although it was strictly in accordance with the exrressed and recbrded opinions of the House, in re, into theae matters—(hear, lame) ; —but he felt himself labouring under very great dieadvirmage when attempting to exemplify the benefits resulting from the principles of free trade, by the state of Ireland; fqr, at the time this policy was adopted towards that country, and since, there have been many circum stances calculated to- retard the great benefits which would otherwise have resulted to that kingdom—the civil discord which unhappily existed in that country—the late protracted war, that had so deeply involved this country and the whole of Europe in things uncongenial to the repose of commercial pur suits—all these circumstances have tended to lessen the good which would have otherwise been felt by Ireland from a system of free trade ; and yet, under all these disadvantages it had derived a most material benefit, and without those measures must- have remained in a state of ex treme distress. He would no turn from Ireland, and look at those provinces which not more than forty years ago formed part of the colonial territories of this country. He would refrain en tering upon the circumstances which led to the separation of those parts from the Mother Country. He was sure a relation of them would not recel any feeling either of glory or of pride. But although these circumstances might lead to reflections not irrelevent to the colonial questions, yet apart from that he would ask this Committee whether there were any Gentleman who really thought that that separation had been attended with any disadvantage to our interests ? If there were Gentlemen who considered the people of this country to have been sufferers from that event, he would ask them to reflect on the import ance of preserving those colonies whose commerce formed part of our own, whose marine formed part of our own, and whose people were an integral - part of this country. He would ask whether it was not proper to endeavour to give them the benefit of a free trade, and to - increase their strength by uniting them in one common interest, and retaining a firm connexion between them and the British Crown ? Seeing then in what a united state we now were in point of navigation and commerce ; looking at the interests of the other colonies he longing to this empire ; looking to the commerce which ere long cri must shew itself on the seas by those newly created States whose independence we have recognize .; and looking to the interests of England as a maritime and co ' mercial power, he trusted he should not be considered 'as harbouring any feeling unfriendly to other States if he were to consider by what fair means the protection of that navigation and the increase of that commerce • might be effected and secured from other countries. From all . that he had observed, and from all the experience which he had • had, he had come to this conclusion, that a system of exclusion and monopoly tended to impede and, cramp the prosperity of the colony ; and he considered it to be a.legitimate inference from that principle, that any thing that tended to the prejudice of the colony must be prejudicial to the parent State; for that which .e hnproved the colony was advantageous to the parent State. Begging of the Committee to bear in mind the ge neral inference which lie had felt himself bound to draw fom the premixes before him, he would now proceed to state L , what was Our'present system with regard to those colonies, and , how much further he wished the Committee to go. By the Acts of the 3d and 4th of his present Majesty, we had admitted the United States to trade with our colonies with only one or two restrictions, namely, that the article of commerce should be the production of the country so trading, and the ships national ships. By these Acts the intercourse was limited between those countries By another Act we have adMitted a direct intercourse between the colonies and the. whole continent of Europe, without any other restriction or limitation except that of carrying on the trade in British shipping ; but at the same time it would he seen not confining the trade to this country. The House would perceive, that in point of fact, when he con ceded to America the trade with our colonies, it was with the United States, because the other States of America had no ship ping; well it might have thought, therefore, that this would have been received by them as an indulgence ; for they had offered us nothing in return; no reciprocity of interest was at all made the basis of these concessions; it was therefore with no little surprise that after this indulgence we found the United States pass , a law that the shipping of British merchants trading with the United States should be subject to certain impositions and re strictions, until this country should concede to their shipping a like freedom to our colonies, or any other country. These latter words were particularly remarkable, applying, as they did, to every part of the world except this kingdom. This was really putting the matter upon a principle that had never been acted upon by any country before —that of saying that this country had no right to say that our own ship s should trade with our colonies in preference to those of other nations. When the information of these enactments on the part of the American Congress reach ed this country, we had but one of two courses to take—either to forbid the intercourse of the United States with our colonies altogether, or by laying like duties upon American shipping. going into those colonies. But wishing to take the most mode rate course, a nd undeistanding that the United States had a l desire to e liect a negociation, it was determined to propose a more comprehensive measure, and such as he was going to sub mit to the Committee. If the result should be that we placed the United States upon the same principles as all other coun tries, and gave them the like privileges with the rest of the world, they could not have any reasonable ground of complaint and if after all they would not consent to this equitable ar rangement he then thought and hoped that the West India Colonies would be able to do very well without their trade; a circunis:ance however, which lie should be very sorry to see resorted to. But he hoped he might he allowed to ask this question, that, when America adopted this course, thinking perhaps that we could not avoid acquiescing in their extravagant and unreasonable request, he would ask whether we were justified in holding from other Powers those privileges we had so freely granted to the United States ? Were we inure jealous of the ships of Europe trading with our colonies than with theirs ? Were we more jealous of those of Sweden, Ii amblr/eh, or any other ships of Germany, than of the ships of America : He thought not. lie thought that, looking at the interests of the colonies, and also of this country, we ought to encourage the intercourse between the ports of Europe and the It Indies ; and that we had as good a claim upon hislatitudeoios judgment Ile ci oughtg m as e n the trade of Europe as any part of the world whatever. He should therefore think there could be no objection to grant to their shipping the benefits of trade, with those colonies at least, t t o tow o e t g h o e o r fuugrittietor.. countries. But lie owned it tswot state ts t eh hise that sn'7 in ine e s l t i a eh establish s t tr e e p tr a e r d e t e l o t o f the colonies with the different parts of Europe upon the same footing as was now carried on with Guernsey and Jersey, subject to certain prohibitions suggested by the nature of things; such as fire-arms in case of war, and also as to certain staple commodities of the colonies. Subject to these prohibitions, he thought we ought to admit free shipping with all our colo nies to all Europe tinder the same regulations as had been re quired.from the United States, namely, that the cargo should belong entirely to the country carrying on the commerce, and that the ship should be a national ship. The result of adopt ing this course would be this—that retaining to ourselves all the commerce between colony and colony, which would, in short, be reserving what might be called the coasting trade, which was the course he believed adopted by all other countries in re gard to their colonies, we should be giving a right of free inter course between those colonies and the rest of the world. Of course it would be necessary in order to effect this, greatly to enlarge the list of articles to be subject to duties, and to in crease the duty on others. It would be necessary to impose certain moderate protecting duties on those articles which formed he staple of the different colonies, as it would be obvious that, by allowing-a free trade with the colonies, many articles would be brought that were the produce of those colonies, and therefore it would be prudent to protege such. There weresome which now' paid at the rate of 7 and 8 per cent. ad valorem ; he should pro pose to extend those duties to 20 and some to 30 per cent. The imposition of these duties, however, in their detail, must depend upon the. local legislature. The most that we could do would be to suggest and adopt the principle;_ but the Colonial Authorities must regulate th e duties. Those Houses, however, must see the propriety of adopting that course which we should think proper to point out, and as that would be with an evident view to their own interests, they therefore could not have any jealousy of our interfering with their privileges. Ile should also propose, with a view to the protection of these colonies, to establish at some of the most eligible of these ports certain warehouses, and to extend to them the whole benefit of the warehouseing system, as at pre sent so usefully acted upon in this country, by allowing goods from all parts of the world to be deposited, so that they might at 'any time be resorted to for supply in case of need, and also for the convenience of commerce with other nations. Ile apprehended this would be found very beneficial to Spanish America, where it might be expected a good market would be found. It was therefore desirable that there should be certain warehouse established in our colonies ; and lie was sure lie was not making an erroneous or visionary statement as to the e a r d e. minded the Committee how greatly the Un ited States l vantage to be derived from the adoption of them, when_ i benefited by such warehouses being established at,, e w Orleansad been Committee, it proposition which he wished to submit to the ?lid be dore and at other parts. Having stated the general nature of the appeared to him that the beneficial effects of it wo t _ er. They greatly felt in the sugar colonies than in any d h al ente •.e better teems, having a larger scope of commevroot Ye that ris he would have a chance of disposing of their prO . n uctions upon But he owned that this was not all thofdas satemae. it would looked to and expected from this ch h carignustaxen, into those introduce, if he were not very sugar colonies quite a new s ursuit s a. He conceived tion of persons, of manners, and o f p system of things, a new descrip tion than was now . acted but also a 'different course of agriculture as those colonies were, upon. It was possible that, situated . they . it not only possibly introduced a new description of commerce equally serviceable.:; ant necessary. other crops than sugar, they might not produce many other things in a climate so favourable for cultivation, anti yield besides that one commodity; he w a s He knew not why not aware,pf any obstacle to their growing indigo ; nor did he know why a great many feeling that no nation could gain by impoverishing another, but other articles might not gradually find their way into those that, on the contrary, their wealth was the certain source of colonies. He trusted too from this change of system that we wealth to those brought into contact with them. With re might hope to see a much larger proportion of whites—(Hear, spent to the measures to be adopted with regard to hear !)—inhabit them than at present, and he was that if North America, he thought they were not only to be such were the case we should have done much to add to the praised for sound policy, but to be considered as tending security of those colonies.—(Hear, hear !)—lf he were asked to self-preservation ;it being, he thought, obvious that it .. to be more particular in stating in what way these benefits would be impossible to hold that country but by retaining and were to take effect, he would frankly own that he could not deserving their affections. The introduction of three or four state. But neither was it in the power of any one the most thousand hogsheads of sugar from the Mauritius he thought extensively inforthed on East India affairs, and of the inte- ought to excite very little alarm; but even if the quantity was rests of commerce with that continent, to say, in the year much greater and the effect more powerful upon the market, he 1813, how the relaxation of the East India Company would could not allow that a colony, now as much our ovrn as benefit the commerce of this country and of India. It was Jamaica or any other West India island, should not, taking stated, that benefits would arise from that measure, but it our manufactures in return for its produce, be entitled to equal was not known how these benefits were to result. But be- advantages. A great deal too much importance, too, had been nefits had accrued both to India and. to this country from the attached to the introduction of East India sugars. The fart restriction of that mo no p o ly ; and he was certain that whatever was, that the Continent was not supplied with sugar io any tended to a free circulation of capital and an unrestrained scope extent from the East. Brazil, Haeannah, and our own colonies, for commercial competition, it must eventually operate to the furnished at least three parts of it; and he thought that those benefit of the countries by whom that competition and corn- who argued for the special protection of East India sugar, even merce is carried on. He had not the least doubt that the West if it was possible for it to furnish the quantity required, that Indies would add a further proof to those of Ireland and the they might starve the planter into the humane treatment of other places which had exemplified what he considered to be a his slaves had reached the highest pitch of absurdity. The great political and commercial principle, and which was in- Honourable Gentleman then made some observations upon finitely more advantageous to States than the strictest mono- the impolicy of having increased the protecting price of poly, established under the idea that the principles of exclu- our own Corn Laws from 60s. to 705., and argued that although sion worked for the benefit of the particular State which crest- he would not deprive any class of men suddenly of that sups ed it. If this system of free trade were considered of such port which they had for some time been enjoying under the importance to these Colonies, which were but as mere sugar sanction of Parliament, still lie thought the law might be ad gardens to this country, in how much greater a degree would vantageously modified; and he was confident that when they' this change of system be beneficial to the Colonies of North took into consideration the cost of carriage and freight, the. America ? There the whole population was free, and the landed interest would not suffer any injurious competition from• people considered that whatever trade they did was for Canada corn, and that the protecting duty of ss. would be their own benefit and support. Under this change of sys- found fully sufficient. The river St. Lawrence was, he doubt tem, it was impossible, therefore, not to conceive a very ed not, destined to be the outlet of one of the greatest grain great benefit to result to those colonies, He was not overstat- countries upon earth : hut from the expence attendant upon its ing the present population of North America, when he men- shipment all apprehensions were groundless with respect to. tioned it at one million of souls.. With all those local and competition in the English market. Some arrangement was, natural advantages which they possessed—their rivers; their however necessary between Lower and Upper Canada. As the , productions, and their fisheries—it was impossible, even if we one was placed above the Lakes, it necessarily followed that it. gave them no other boon, that they should feel in the liberal was supplied from the other ; and is had long been a complaint treatment of this country a desire to connect themselves with I that Lower Canada had it in its power to lay what duties it any other country, or a wish to shake off their connexion with I pleased upon the goods going to the tipper. A Bill had been us. He would therefore say, that his change of system would introduced to unite these countries, and put an end to their con not only tend to the benefit of these colonies in a commercial tention, and he certainly thought some such measure essen point of view, but would also tend to secure a perpetual connec- tially necessary to their future prosperity. don between them and the Mother Country. Without grant- Sir F. BURDETT thought that there was a great deal of ing these boons to others, he was going to say,—but these benefits unnecessary apprehension of public opi lion displayed upon this to outselves, lie ought rather to call their—those Colonies could occasion. Public, opinion, they would find, was with them to not maintain a faircompetition with the United States. At this mo- a greater extent than they imagined. It would be found that ment one of the greatestsources of trade belonging to Nova Scotia unfeigned gratification would pervade all classes on learning was their fishery. Their rivals were in the neighbouring pro- the nature of the alterations, and that the Right Hon. Gentle vinees belonging to the United States. Supposing they took their man might go with the approbation of the public to the full cargoes to New York, they then were upon equal terms. But extent of his own conceptions in giving the Colonies the free use neither at the Brazils, nor up the Mediterranean, were they, of their capitol, and conferring upon the negroes the power to as the law now stood, at all upon an "equality ; and if the Nova use their own industry, and carry on their own manufactures in• Scotian went up the Baltic, lie could not exchange his cargo whatever way may prove beneficial to them. Every body knew for the produce of those countries. This gave an effectual , that the prohibition under which the Colonies laboured, of being premium and bounty to the fishery of the United States, and I obliged to send all their raw sugars to us without the power of by this we lost the benefit of the trade of Nova Scotia. This I refining any themselves, has a very oppressive grievance, and he would serve to exemplify the present defective system. Hay- I thought its abolition,while it conferred a boon upon them, would ing now stated all his views of the general principles, the de- Ibe of great benefit to ourselves. It had been thought that some' tails he would not trouble the Committee with, but proceed i objection would be offered to the bringing of corn from Canada to one or two alterations which, in the course of the present I He. wished Hon. Gentlemen to understand that the landed in- Session, he should propose to make. • The Committee was ; terest could have no objection to any regulation that they de aware that the sugar of the Mauritius was paying a duty of 10s. ; sired, no other advantages than what resulted front the Wm more than from any other colony. Last year he had submit- I 'nand of the home market; they had become more enlightened ted a resolution to reduce, but it had been opposed. But, I upon these subjects, and knew that no assistance was to be upon every principle of justice and equity, he did think that I derived from regulations respecting the price of corn or any' when we were going to place all the other colonies upon one I other bolstered up scheme of laws. They had learnt by expe footing, we coud not refuse to put the Mauritius in the same • rience that other means were more advantageous than prohibi situation with the rest ; and therefore, although it was not in bons or restrictions, and that no taxes should be imposed on his Resolutions of to-night, it was in consideration to submit to ; trade but what might be absolutely necessary for the sake of the House an equality of duties on the sugar of the Mauritius I revenue.—(Hear; hear!)—The system he now saw about to be and the West India Islands. The other alteration was with re- pursued was one calculated to advance this country to a pros gard to Canada. That certainly was not a sugar colony, but perity which it.had never yet known, and the extent of which he conceived its staple was as important to be protected as any it was almost difficult for the mind of man to conceive. lie other : that staple was its corn. This was an article not pro- would not say any more at present. What he had principallY hibited, it was true, but owing to the high duties it was in ef- risen for was, to give his support to the principle, and to assure I feet so. He conceived that there could he no ground for appre- the House that the public mind was become too enlightene d hension that the admission of the Canadian corn into this coon- I for any fear from the opposition of narrow-minded prejudice. try at all times would at all affect the agricultural interests. He I Mr. BRIGHT felt satisfied that the condition of the negro thought he might state the whole importation from Canada did population would be much improved by the Right Hon. Gei not amount to 50,000 quarters yearly. The disadvantage which I tleman's propositions. He wished to know what were the aro - Canada was now placed under was, that they not when our ; d es w hi c h h e had mentioned as to be prohibited in a particular ports were shut or opened, depending as it did upon a fraction way. of a penny. He was sure that at a very moderate duty , a free ; Mr. HUSKISSON said the articles to be pro hibited froth admission might be allowed at all times without prejudice to any ; the Havan n a h were rum, su g ar, molasses , coffee, and cocoa. interest whateVer in the country. What with the 12s. or I4s. I Mr. HUME took the opportunity to ask what were the Right. freightage, and n s eduty,and the very limited supply, this country Honourable Gentleman's intentions with respect to St. Don%.. had nothing to anprehend even by the most jealous and nar- go, or, if it was not determined to send some autnonsso 1 „ rowed principle that could exist. The Hon. M em ber for Co- son to manage our commercial relations in that coun tr Y s ;_ ventry had called the attention of the House to the large fees country established in peace and quietness, and rapi paid on the shipping at the colonies. They were most certainly creasing in prosperity. With respect to Canada, too, as a burthen on the shipping of this country, and, when the colon- intended to confer so many advantages unon its bade, lie tou o s . -- vies came to act upon the principles of free trade, would be felt ed this country might receive some from it, and be freed fr to be a great inconvenience ; it was therefore determined, that, that Timber Act which compelled us to pay large sums I °` with this alteration of system, these fees should be reduced i an inferior article. altogether, and that the officers should be paid out of the tr ade I Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that the Hon. Gentlem an, of the colony, which he believed was the proper fund. Many Member for Taunton (Mr. Baring), had gone out of his way . lif of the officers now employed would not, under the new system censuring those who had taken a different view of coloniari_ he wanted at all, but would be altogether in the way. He; policy than he had done. To him (Dr. Lushington) there should therefore propose their discharge, and that a compensa- did not appear to be any reason why the same immunitt.e:s tion should be made to them. This alteration would not only I should not be granted, and the same, system extended to T o add much to the facility of trade with the colonies, but afford a East as to the West Indies, and this point he might arg greater chance for a more successful co mpetition.- He believed I not only as a question of political economy, but of mora l Or ., he had now stated to the Committee the whole of the , al t er ations tice ; when lie would ask for as large a free trade for one c01.h4 he intended to bring under their attention at that time ; but as another. One great cause of the discontent of th e West In s,. on Friday next he should be prepared to lay before t hem the had not been that ni g ht hinted at. It was that the W e st IO other parts of the future commercial system. lie should now Proprietors were a set of absentees . who were cultivating the; move a Resolution, " That it is the opinion of this Committee estates only to enjoy the produce here , and w h o e n g a g ed age°.„ that the Acts of the 3d and 4th of his present Majesty, regu- by large bribes to reside there with no other feeling thoi,A, lating the trade with. his Majesty's possessions in North Ame- drain as much from those estates as the y by possibility etnoiii, rice, should be amended, and also the Acts relative to the and caring nothing for the way in which they left them. 4 Ir e ., warehousing of goods." Right Hon. Gentleman thought to satisfy the West India V.., Mr. C. R. ELLIS, while he congratulated the House upon prietors, he would find himself mistaken in his calculatio ns o* , the wise and enlightened system of policy which the Right Hon. There would be no end to the boons they would ask or the President of the Board of Trade had declared it hi s intention cessions the y would expect. With respect to the di s tiocu r n e to adopt, trusted that as the subject was of no common interest made between the East and West Indie s, he would obse % , they would favour him with their attention while lie made a that the House was now about to give a boon to the West I nt " c eo few observatioils. With regard to the introduction of sugar in which other Colonies were included : those Colonies had from the Mauritius under the 'same duties as the other islands, always tardy in acknowledging the authority of Parliament 7ity he confessed he had heard the Right Hon. Gentleman's inten- but he hoped that notwithstanding this fact their anirO s dol tion with sonic surprise, and the more so as t he same measure would subside, and that when the y saw that a similar spiritoo, had been introduced last year, and afterwards abandoned. He not actuate that House, they would be satisfied of its intent]. would not say any more, however, at present, than that he to support them. hoped the Bight Hon. Gentleman would have the goodness to Mr. GORDON said that he fully approved of the meas °r o e' s peruse the petition from the island of Mauri tius before he finall y which had been p ro p osed, and he would not thwart their (lea. determined upon that change. The restrictions proposed to tion in the House or elsewhere. It was unfair in the 1101!°flas be removed from the trade of the West Indies, and which now able Member (Dr. Lushington) to object to him and his fri re et pressed more severely upon them than any other, had not been for opposing the measures which were extended to the Y ci o. attended with such injurious effects when fir st introdu ced. At Indie s . It wa s ea s y fo r that lion. Member, who-was ac to that time the exclusion from all foreign and continental trade toured to public speaking in' courts of law and other place 9 W• had been compensated by the enti re su pp l y of the home market ; deal forth p ublic insinuations a g ainst an y individual wholi`tiy and as long as the supply did not greatly exceed the demand, its fered with him in opinion ; but he (Mr. Gordon) indigrige r ee effects were not felt ; but whe n it became a p rinci p le of this re p elled these insinuations, and declared himself entirely h country to extend her colonial possession by engrossing those from them.—(Hear !) of all other nations producing a supply of more than one-third. Mr. GRANT said that the West India planters were o , ro of the quantity required, it becanie obvious that a system lumniated body of men. Their object was to derive are a 7,i( which glutted the home market, and affbrded no outlet unless able remuneration from their establishments, and to b ,700. under the enormous expellee of a double voyage, could not be every care and attention on the negro population. The P any hinger maintained. But while he thought sonic change ab- Member (Dr. Lushington) .said, that the proprietors we re n i el he was quite sure that one so extensive. as tisfied with concessions; and he said this at a period wh en s t h o l e u p t e r l e y s e n n e t c would not be attended with so much advantage as supplicated a measure of relief, and made out as strong g o IC was anticipated, when the present Chancellor of the Exchequer as was ever presented to a British Minister. If privileges, o ot had,in his capacity of President of the Board of Trade , introduced n o t g rant e d to the West India interest, the planters colli"lay, a Bill for encouraging a more direct trade with the Continent. compete with the sugars from the East ; and, conseq.ael British merchants had not engaged in that trade with so much the cultivation of sugar in the West would drop off. t i l er eagerness as was anticipated. The planters had found it diffi. Mr. TRANT made a few observations, which were al to g e cult to transfer the trade from its old-established channels, and inaudible in the gallery. • ing he believed that scarce l y a single British ship had ca rr i e d pro. Mr. EVANS protested against the principle of giv duce in that way to the Continent. He earnestly hoped, how- preference to the labour of' slaves to that of freemen. oe so lo ' ever, that the enterprise and spirit of British commerce would After a few words from Sir J. WROTTESLEY, the -- l t i h e a d t ir h e e c a t v ed y t a o u t rp hi i s us tr i a v d h e i , eh ant ad th h u o s t fr h e e e en the fo h r o m m er e ly ma r r e k tn e o t v f a ro h i l n e dons were put and carried. SALARIES TO POLICE MAGISTRATES.„ose with heavy double charges. His Right Honourable Friend Mr. Secretary. PEEL rose to call the attention of the P had said that this principle of reciprocity was Only to he ap- to the salaries of the Police Magistrates of the 1.1e,t r . ° 1 1 ,10 6 ' plied to those countries which might be willing to adopt When he adverted to the situation of these indsvai p ee it on an equally liberal scale to us. Looking at what had he hoped that an addition to their annual all?" hov e occurred with regard to the treaty with Denmark, he doubted would not be considered unnecessary. He held in his, WI whether his Right Honourable Friend would not find a great papers, showing the great increase of business whicil e 0 impediment to the liberality of his policy in the narrow views of' late years taken place, not only in conseque o ;.' l , of other nations. But he would not choose this occasion to the multiplication of Acts of Parliament, but also of t ' er isr,, 'mention those drawbacks which might suggest themselves ; he crease of population. These circumstances alone, would rather take occasion to look at the fairest side of a nmea- an augmentation of salary, but it rested on other g rts • I 00/. ' e. sure which lie had heard with f • among its other advantages, unfeigned satisfaction, The When the Police Magistracy were appointed, it was 4 o lac opening of the trade of the Colonies to all the world, would, was now 6001.; and when the first appointments took r o jel t ;Loth 0 01 he trusted increase the population it was the practice to select persons for the office w ll° ,l of those Islands by encouraging merchants to settle in them, utterly incompetent to discharge the duties. He follow had been tgAch h oßt mi i N e o r eGn t o r. c a, v r ;e ee w nr ad e d with so much stimulating thereby the industry of the black populationeen- in the appointments made for the police offices, includ' el oer', suring the peace and security of the inhabitants, and guarding Magistrates, only three barristers were among the Clq o against any danger from that projected emancipation which there was a Major in in time army, a starch-maker, three, peh apprehension. He gymen, a Glasgow trader, and several other unqualifieo "Li could assure his Right Hon Friend, not to detain the House sons. 'No limitation was fixed by law as to the previ° us e sili e o any longer, that much as his paternal affection might be ex- cation of these Magistrates ; but a limitation was pr ce s o cited by the measures he had proposed, it did not exceed what by the Secretaries of State. Neither he nor his preo c lie (Mr. Ellis) felt himself : and he was confident that the name had ever appointed a Magistrate who was not a b3r t r o V „ e f to wouldw which lie descendhad n ste h ri ir t t y h. connected of three years standing ; and he thought the prapti c w e beti e l o of srt.hiljaaitogipveo a desirable one. It was necessary to consider o ish o i M and to the Colonies. was confid e nt th a t this spirit of commercial 6001. a year was a sufficient compensation to induce. 1 / 1 1 notli • e arrangement could flat but be productive of good to the country to give up the embluments of private practice. Ti fe ce , ' He could not say that there were not of the Magistracy required their constant otenda° 6ecy many points in the Right lion. Gentleman's statements which hoped it was no unreasonable proposition that die ipioer ,!;", he in common with the House did not exactly understand ; but tary of State should be empowered to give to es.o i s l he thought it fair that they should wait for the printing of the trate a salary of 8001. It had been the practice tO r " ar t y Bills and Resolutions before they expressed their opinions. One various motives of remuneration in London ; and 'O en , ' thing lie was happy to see—it acknowledged as the general was made to the conduct of the,. country gentle:l;l?,-