The Sun. — London, England, 1831-09-07 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF COMMONS, SEPTEMBER 6. The Gallery was not opened until Half-past Three o'clock, and it was some time before there were forty Mem bers present. Mr. LEADER presented a petition from the town of Clara, in the King's County, praying for an - assessment of property in Ireland for the relief of the poor, and for a double assessment on absentee landlords, as the only means of restoring peace and happiness to that country. The ; petitioners stated their conviction that the disturbances in the counties of Galway and ROSCOMMOII, and ohos in the south of Ireland, procece,ea solely from the discontent of the labouring_ pool'. The HonottrAle Member per fectly coincided with the almcst general opinion, that the property of a country should be made available to support the poverty of it ; and he knew no way by which the people of England could he an much relieved in the poor-rates as by affording comforts to the poor of Ire land in their own country.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member then presented petitions from the Roman Catholics of the town of Newmarket, in the county of Cork, and from a parish in the same county, praying that all grants for edu cation in Ireland might be equally distt ibuted, and not confie.ed to the support of the Kildare-street Society. By fiat Act of the 28th of Henry the Eighth, every clergyman upon his induction to a living in Ireland was compelled to take an oath that be would establish in his parish a school for the poor, and by the 12th of Elisabeth, the. Bishop of each diocese was ordered to establish a Latin school. ff these Acts had been always complied with, there would have been no need of these annual grants.—(Hear.) Looking at these Acts, which showed the wisdom of our ancestors, and seeing that they ha I no reference whatever to any particular creed, he (Mr. Leader) honed that the grants would in future be so distributed as net to refer to any one creed to the exclusion of others.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member also presented a petition from the freemen of Galway, relative to the Galway franchise. At this stage of the proceedings, Lord Ingestrie, Member for Dublin, and Sir John Bridges, Member for Armagh, were introduced, and took the oaths and their seats. MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. The Deputy Usber of the Black Rod appeared at the Bar, and summoned the House to the Bar of the Hare of Lords, to hear the Royal Assent given by Commission to some Bills. On his return he informed the House that the Royal Assent bad been given to the Duchess of Kent's Annuity Bill, and two Private Bills. Mr. Danvers, from the East India House, appeared at the Bar with copies of warrants, granting pensions to the Officers in the Company's service. Mr. H. ROSS presented a petition from the merchants, altip-ownets, and others, of Montrose, complaining of the quarantine laws, and praying for relief. The Hon. Member said he was quite aware of the difficulties which surrounded this question, but he could declare that some ship-ow ners had lost three-fourths of the amount of freight by th e d 1 . tention of their vessels. The petition was ordered to be printed, Mr. Alderman WOOD moved for returns of the numb r of gallons of spirits imported from Guernsey and Jersey, and which had paid the duty, since the sth January last. —Ordered. Sir J. ASTLEY presented a petition from 60 resident Clergymen, including two Archdeacons, in the county he represented (Wiltshire), praying for an alteration in the Beer Bill. During the fall of last year, there were many unfortunate disturbances in the south of England, and also in Wiltshire; and although be did not mean to say the beer-shops gave rise to any of them, still he thought the disturbances were aided by those places. Mr. BENETT differed from the petitioners. He had no reason to believe that the disturbances either emanated from, or were encouraged by, the beer-shops. Ile was an ad vocate for the clause allowing beer to be drank on the pre mises, as bring, in his opinion, highly conducive to the comforts of the labcuring poor—(Hear)—and he would never consent that those comforts should be taken fro m them.—( Hear, hear.) Any disposition to exceed the pro visions of the Act could, in his (Mr. Benett's) opinion, he entirely and efficiently remedied by police regulations. The petition was read and ordered to be printed. Mr. JAMES presented a petition fiom the metropolis against the law allowing punishment for the expres. eion of religious opinions, and praying the House to address his Majesty, praying that his Majesty will be pleased, as an act of grace at the Coronation, to release the Rev. Robert Taylor. ~The Hon. Member said he was not acquainted with any of the petitioners, but he per ceived at the head of them the name of a highly philan thropic gentleman, Mr. Owen, of Lanark. The petition was read and ordered to be printed. Mr. DIXON presented a I.etition from the Reform As sociation of Glasgow, complaining of the delays that hail taken place in the discussion of the Reform Bill, and pray ing the House to piss it without delay. The petitioners placed the greatest reliance on his Majesty's Ministers, and felt perfectly certain that any delay that had occurred was not attributable to them. Sir J. M. DOYLE presented a petition from Carlow, for the disarming of the yeomanry. Mr. O'CONNELL had been requested to support the prayer of the petition, but he saw very little prospect of its succeeding. He considered a more serious grievance never occurred to Ireland than the arming of the yeomanry irps- Mr. BLACKNEY also supported tha prayer of the petition, and presented a similar one signed by the Catho lics and Disssenters. • Mr. SHAW trusted that Government would not upon this petition take any steps to disband the yeomanry. LONDON BRIDGE Mr. HUNT presented a petition from a Mr Peter Jeffrey, residing in Cheapside, stating that two arches of the new London-bridge, on the Surrey side, had sunk on the lower aide upwards of eight inches and a half. The petitioner had given a great deal of his time and attention to this subject, and he considered that the greatest danger was to he appre hended from this circumstance. Rebore presenting the present petition he (Mr. Hunt) had considered it his duty to examine the bridge himself, and upon that examination be had found the statements of the petitioner to be per fectly correct. He was very glad that the old bridge had not been removed, and trusted that this would not turn out like some of the jobs be had known in the city, arid that the anticipations of the petition( r would not be verified The subject, however, was well worthy the attention of the Members of that House who had voted away so large a sum of money for the purpose of building this bridge. The petitioner stated that bad materials had been used in tilling up parts of the bridge, and prayed that some inquiry might be instituted on the subject. Mr. Alderman WOOD was quite sure the House need tart alarm itself on account of the non-professional state ments of this Mr. Jeffrey, who had endeavoured to make it appear that he knew much better how to construct a bridge than Mr. Rennie.—(Much laughter.) Doubtless this gentleman had been much disappointed that th e city of London had not adopted his plan ; this was the first time he (Mr. Alderman Wocd) had heard of this subject, but he could assure the House that persons of the greatest eminence on examining the structure of the bridge had expressed themselves highly satisfied with the work, and h d observed that they never saw a building of such a natur, so well constructed. Security had been taken for the due performance of the work, to the amount o: 200,000/. and he would venture to assert, when inquiry was made, there would be no defect discovered. The city of London, he was sure, wou'd be glad to have an inquiry made. Mr. Alderman THOMPSON was satisfied there was no necessity for any alarm on the subject. The arch of every bridge sunk more or less after its erection, and if per sons compared the sinking of the New London Bridge, with that of others, it would not be greater. He thought this individual, if he had any complaint to make of the materials used in the bridge, had taken a very bad time to bring forward that complaint. In his (pinion that ought to have been done before the building was completed. Ile had always objected to the building of this bridge, being convinced the old one could have been effectually repaired, but when it was determined that the erection should take place, he instantly gave way. He felt confi dent that no body could have taken more pains than the city of London had done to have the bridge built in the most substantial manner. Alderman VENABLES thought there was not the slightest foundation for alarm. He must, however, complain that th e H onoura b le Member for Preston had not given any notice whatever of his inten tion to present such a petition, as he (Alderman Ve nables) felt quite satisfied that by prtop: rsu).c inquiry, it which m ight certainly have been made into h expla nation might have been come to that would i j i e ave , a r n prevented the house being troubled with such a petition, w hl t e .i, he was sure there existed not the slightest foundatio n. Mr. HUNT said it was true that, as the, Hon. Ci ty Member behind him (Thompson) had reinarked, th;t every structure should have " a settling," but it was also true, certainly, that it undoubtedly sl - ould be settled on a level, so that the foundations should not sink. As a document affecting the public interest he should move that the petition be printed. Alderman THOMPSON hoped, as a matter of justice to the engineer, contractors, and superintending Committee, that the lion. Member would not press the printing of the petition until Mlle inquiry should be wade into the truth of the case. Mr. HUNT stated his willingness to accede to the suggestion of the Honourable Member for the city of London, but as to en': Vngineer and contractors, they were Well atvare themselves of the facts 'Which the petition stated, as they had been in the very sante boat 41 which he (Mr. flunt) Was, when inAting the survey, and it was their duty to hate =de the communication. Mr. VROSNENOR presented a petition from the owners and occupiers of corn mills in Chester, praying for some protection against the importation or foreign flour. . . . . Mr. HUME rose to make tht motion which he had given notice of, respecting The revenues of the vacant See of Derry, hut, t. the Chancellor of the Exchequer was not in his p!tee, he did not know how to proceed. THOINISON stated that his Noble Friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer wculd undoubtedly be in his place at five o'clock. Lord A ',THORP having taken his sot, Mr. HUME rose, andFoga to the House the object of the motion of which he had previously given notice. The matter was of great importance, and although he was very unwilling to stop the proceedings of the Reform Bill, yet he was anxious, from the intrinsic interest of the question, and the interest which it had ex cited, to bring it forward now. At the same time ahould the Noble Lord be able to state the plan which Government intended to adopt, and if it were satisfactory to the House, he woull be the last to sire it any oppo sition. Lord ALTI-lORP had not the s'ightest objection to state honestly an answer to the question which had been put. The motion of which the Hon. Member had given notice respected the revenue of the See of Derry. Now, in his (Lord Althorp's) opinion, that was undoubtedly a question worthy the consideration of Government and of the House, he should rather say, of the Government itself. Government bad the question to which the motion allud d under its consideration, and it appeared to him that, although it would be improper to turn the re venues of the Protestant Church to any other pur poses than those of the Established Church, still the question was important, and if by an alteration in the distribution of these revenues the poorer Members of that Church could he assisted, without diminishing im properly the rank and station of its superior Members, it might legitimately, he thought, be effected. This was the view which Government were inclined to take of the mat ter; but when the question of Derry wes agitated, it ap peared more proper, that if any steps of this kind were to be taken, the question should be considered gene rally, and not applied to any one individual diocese. It was therefore not intended by Government to take any step of that nature in the filling up of the vacant Bishopric of Derry, but lie would assure the House, that whosoever Was appointed to that Bishopric should, on hi• appointment, receive notice that no rights he might thereby acquire would be allowed to interfere with any such arrangement, if at any time, it should appear advisable for Government to adopt it. This was the state in which the matter rested at present, and if the explanation he had given were satisfactory to the House—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear")—he hoped the Hon. Member for Middlest x would withdraw his motion. Mr. HUME had no hesitation whatever in stating that he, and the Hons.., were perfectly satisfied with the Noble Lord's explanation. He was thereby convinced Govern ment were determined to act on a general principle, ex• tensive and legitimately important—(Hear, hear) — which would bring the whole question upon a future occasion under the consideration of the House. He should, therefore, be sorry to press the discussion of this question, as he might do harm unintentionally instead of good. He should therefore withdraw his motion. Alderman THONIPSON rose to bring forward the subject of which he had given notice, relative to the quarantine fees. If it were intended by Government to grant relief only from the Ist of January next, he could not waive his proposition on that account.— It might appear to the House that the amount paid by each vessel was very small, but if the system continued throughout this year it would amount to 25,0001. or 26,0001 ; and, he it remembered, that all this was to be collected from a particular interest of the country, which was, in an especial manner, suffering under the visitation of Providence. They did not come to the House to ask for compensation, although the ships bad to lie from thirty to forty days under quarantine, during the whole of which period the owners hail to support the Captain and the crew ; and yet, before the ship was allowed to sail, the owner was obliged to pay Si. I Is. 6d. It was a case of injustice, for whatever freight a vessel carried, whether she was a ship of 50 tens or one of 500 tone, the demand was the same—(Hear)—and it appeared from a petition pre ' sented on a former evening by his Hon. Friend the Member for Middlesex (Mr. Hume), that on a vessel arriving from Hamburg, that had only earned 161. of freight, the sum of Si. 14s. 6d. was demanded, exclusive of the loss by deten tion. —(Hear.) No doubt there were many cases of simi lar hardships. He did not complain of the detention of ships under quarantine when they came from infected ports, because it was for the benefit of the public, but it was casting a burthen on the owners which should be made as light as possible. When, however, vessels were de tained for the public benefit the public should pay for it—(Hear, .hear, hear)—and, in fact, be did not see why the ship-owner should not receive demurrage in the same way as was paid by detention under other circum stances. There was no such charge as this on vessels of this country arriving in the pot•ts of Sweden and Den mark, and he conceived the demand made in the Bri tish quarantine stations was a most unjust one. The Honourable Member concluded by moving, " That it is inexpedient to subject vessels placed in quarantine to the payment of the fee of Si, 14s. 6d. for their order of release by the Lords of the Privy Council." Mr. DIXON rose to second the resolution, and at the same time observed that it was hardly necessary for him to say anything to convince the House of the extreme hardship imposed by this fee on the shipping interests. He had looked over the Act of Parliament, and he could not see that any fee was authorized to he taken, and therefore he contended that the demand was an illegal one. The SPEAKER having put the question, Mr. POULETT THOMSON could not conceive on what ground the fee was called an illegal one, but what. ever doubt might be en , ertained, still it was a payment to the fund of the country, and except in particular in stances it was not a tax levied on the shipping interest, because although it was !arid by the vessels, the prices of the cargo would be increased in the same pro portion to the consumer ; therefore tl e shipping interest would be reimbursed. Ile, however, quite agreed that it was a very impolitic mode of paying the fee ; and he agreed also, that when a tax was levied for the benefit of the public generally it ought to be defrayed by the community.—(Hear, hear.) He had not been able to trace the origin of the fees of 41. 13,. 6d. ; but they had been left standing, and had been consented to by the Mediterranean trade, fur he found by a correspondence with those merchants, that an additional fee of 1/. Is. had been imposed, makir.•; 51. 14.5. 6,1. however, the House were of opinion that it was more de sirable that these fees should be paid flora the public purse instead of by individuals, his Majesty's Government were quite willing to consent to that plan—(Hear)—but it must be understood that it was only a mode of altering the sys tem of payment, and that the House must be prepared to grant a sum of money to defray the amount of those fees.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member stated the expenses of the lazarettos and other materiel of the quarantine establishments, and said that the money collected by these fees did not defray more than one-fifth of their expence. He knew of no country on which the quarantine fees were so light as they were in this, and he was sure if we could in duce other countries to reduce their quarantine fees, their commerce and that of this country would be considerably increased. Mr. WARBURTON thought that as long as these fees were retained, it was giving a bonus to ships to evade the Quarantine Laws. He hoped his Right Hon. Friend would he induced to revise his determination, and imme diately take off these dues. Mr. MABERLY thought that Government had met this question with great fairness, and that they ought not to be pre , sed to renounce this tax earlier than they saw reason. _ _ _ Mr. ROBINSON trusted that from this day these fees would no longer exist. Sir M. W. RIDLEY trusted that this tax would be taken off from the present moment, considering Govern ment would be acting with good policy in pursuing such a step. Lord G. BENTINCK thought there was no pretence for keeping up this tax, and hoped it would be imme diately abolished. Lord ALTHORP observed, that the only question was whether the tax should he taken off now or on th e Ist of January next. It appeared to him, as all ves sels that could come in retur❑ to this country ro m the Baltic had already started, it would be more convenient that the tax should be taken off, and those returned which they had already paid. Mr. HUME considered this an illegal tax, and could assure the House that if he had at the present moment a ship clearing out, he should resist the payment of these fees, and would defy the Crown to recover it. Ile thought those who had paid these dues were not only entitled to have the whole duty taken off, but after they came back ; and nothing he had heard convinced him that there was any injustice in such an arrangement. Alderman THONIPSON regretted being obliged to take the sense of the House on his motion, bat his sense of duty, however, impelled him to do so. If the Noble Lord had stated that he would immediately take off the tax, he should have cordially concurred. The House then divided, when there appeared— . _ For the original motion Against it 64 Majority against Alderman Thompsm's motion —44 BANK OF SCOTLAND. Mr. HERRIES rose to move for copies of the charter of the Royal Bank of Scotland, and for certain papers which were connected with the subject. He apprehended no opposition would be made to his motion. His object in &eking to obtain a copy of the charter, was to call the attention of the House to some defects of omission in that document, which he thought admitted of an easy re medy. For example, he thought the responsibility of the principals in the B ink not sufficiently secured, as he would expl un to the House on a future occasion. The Right Hon. Gentleman concluded with moving for a copy of the charter granted to the National Bank of Scotland, and the papers—including the opinions of the Law Officers of the Crown—relating thereto. The LORD ADVOCATE said, that no hesitation existed on the part of the Government to the production of the documents moved for by the Right Hon. Gentleman. The charter granted only the power of suing and being sued through the company's authorized officers—an ar rangement which he would endeavour to show was the best, in a national point of view, which the Law Officers of the Crown could, under the circumstances of the case, have sanctioned. _ Mr. HUAIE wished to know what course the Right Hon. Gentleman meant to pursue, when he had obtained the papers ?—whether to alter the charter, or move for its repeal? Mr. HERRIES had no intention to infringe on the charter to make any alterations other than that of sup plying some deficiencies in its details, to which be would shortly call the attention of the House. Mr. MABERLY thought the principle of suing and being sued through the Bank's officers a good one, but hoped that Ministers would in no way lend themselves to bestowing upon any company a monopoly.—( Hear.) After a few words from Mr. CAMPBELL and Sir E. SUGDEN, approving of the principle of the charter, the motion for the returns was agreed to. ACCIDENTS BY STEAM-VESSELS. SII3THORPff, pursuant to notice of motion, rose to move for a Select Committee to inquire into the best means of preventing the occurrence of accidents in steam vessels. The Hun. Member said, he was induced to bring forward this motion by the strong public feeling and deep sympathy which the recent loss of the Rothsay steamer had given birth to ; and hoped that the result of the Com mittee's labours would he, the securing the public against a recurrence of such a deplorable calamity. Mr. LAMB entertained by no means v. ry sanguine hopes from the labours of the proposed Committee, but still was willing to give it a trial, as a means of allaying public excitement, and convincing the mind that the occurrence of these lamentable accidents was in no ways imputable to the neglect of Ministers or Parliament. The motion was then agreed to, and a Select Committee appointed. SCOTCH REFORM BILL. Lord ALTHORP stated, in answer to a questicn of Mr. Croker, that Ministers intended to proceed with the Scotch Reform Bill so soon as the English Bill had passed through its rem mining stages. The second reading stood for Mon day s2nnigl,t, and should be moved that day in the event of the English Reform Bill having been read a third time in the mean time. If it should not, the cam livst convenient day would be fixed for the second reading. CROWN DEBTORS.' Mr. HUNT, pursuant to notice of motion, moved an address to his Majesty, that he would be pleased to release all Crown debtors now in prison, at the ensuing Coro nation. The Hon. Member said, that in bringing forward this motion he was influenced by an earnest desire to pro mote those feelings of regard to our patriot Sovereign which at present were so prevalent among all classes of the people. The releasing those Crown debtors whom he particularly had in his eye—namely, those who were con fined fur arrears of taxes, fines, and other debts to the Crown, and not those xKlao were confined for a violation of the customs or exciselaws--would - be, so far from de trimental to the revenue, actually-a national saving. Ex peri, nee had shown, that in ten eases out of twenty of those confined for debts to the Crown, of the class which he had just specified, the revenue never recovered a single firthing, while the nation was put to the expence of their support in prison. For example : be knew of one case of a person wbo was imprisoned in Somersetshire for sixteen years for arrears of taxes to the amount of 311., all which time his support was defrayed at the expense of the county at an annual cost of 301—(Hear) —though ultimately, he was discharged without, from total inability, paying a far. thing.—( Hear.) Besides, therefore, effecting a national saving, the address would, if acted upon, be just now felt by the people as a special act of grace, in the best sense of the term. . _ Mr. HUME seconded the motion, on the ground that he had ever advocated the principle, that debtors to the Crown should be placed on precisely the same footing with debtors to priva'e persons—that is, not detained in prison when they had not the possible means of discharg ing the debts. Lord ALTHORP was sure the House would at once see the inexpediency of acceding to the Hon. Member's motion. It was objectionable even in its form of wording —so far as it included " all" Crown deb'ors ; and was highly objectionable on principle. If it was right that his Majesty should, of his own flee accord, discharge the Crown debtors from prison, it was plain that the grace of the act would be done away with by the proposition's not emanating from his own Royal clemency, but from that House.—(Hear.) And if it was not right it was equally plain that the motion must appear neither more nor less than an act of censure on a matter on which Parlia ment had no right to interfere.—( Hear, hear.) Sir E. SUGDEN was willing to place every confidence in the discretion of Ministers with respect to the Crown debtors. Mr. HUNT would not, after the declaration of the Noble Lord, proceed with his motion.—(Hear.) In withdrawing it he begged to say that he never meant the remotest censure on Ministers or his Majesty; and he thought he was forwarding the humane and enlightened designs of both with respect to the poor debtors—unfortu• nately a very numerous class at this moment. He was one who highly approved of the approaching ceremony of the Coronation, and merely wished to add to its &bit by an act of well timid mercy. The motion was then withdrawn. Mr. HUNT then Inovad thiat this House will on Friday next res , dve itself into a Committee of the whole House, to consider of an Address to his Majesty for the advance of a sum of money—say 24,0001.—t0 discharge from prison in dividuals imprisoned for squill debts. Sir C. FORBES seconded the motion, and hoped thit Ministers would take this proposal into their must serious consideration. Lord ALT HORP said, that the proposition to which the Hon. Member for Preston wished to hind the House on Friday next, was not one to which it ought to agree. These poor debtors were more a subject of private thin of public charity. _ Mr. HUME agreed with that view of this subject which had just been stated by the Noble Lord opposite. He regretted that Government had not brought forward some measure for the abolishment of imprisonment for debt ; and he regretted it the more, as there never was an instance in which a creditor got any real benefit front im prisoning his debtor. He then asked a question respecting the intention of the Law Commissioners on this subject. Lord ALTHORP gave a reply utterly inaudible in the gallery. Sir E. SUGDEN hoped that nothing which had just occurred would lead to a notion out of doors that the Noble Lord was about to abolish imprisonment fur debt. The motion was then negatived. Mr. BERNAL brought up the Report of the Com mittee of the whole House on the resolution proposed last night, authorising the Lords Commissioners of the Trea sury to pay the hirristers employed in revising the lists of voters in counties and boroughs. After a few words from Mr. Flume, the report was agreed to. REFORM BILL. Lord ALTHORP, in moving the Order of the Day fur the House resolving itself into a Committee on the Re form Bill, expressed a hope that they would let the Bill get through the Committee that evening, even though it should lead them to sit to a later hour than usual. Sir E. SUGDEN said that he had no wish to prevent the Noble Lord from accomplishing his wish to get this Bill through before the Coro na ti on ; at the same t i me h e must object to tt eir sitting much beyond their usual hour. Lord G. SOMERSET could not accede to the propo sition of the Noble Lord. He had himself a clause to pro pose as soon as the Committee got through the present clauses of the Bill ; but he could not think of bringing for ward twat clause at half-past one or two o'clock in the morning. Mr. WILKS bad given notice of his intention to in corporate into this Bill a clause, enacting that ments should not have more than a biennial duration. Now, as the present Bill was only a local Bill, being for the reform of the representation in England and Wales merely, and as the two other Reform Bills were also local Bills for Scotland and Ireland respectively, he was of opinion that a clause of a general description could not properly be introduced into any one of them. 'Though he was more and more convinced of the necessity of making Parliaments trienni be was now of opinion that a sepa rate Bill would be the hest mode of effecting that object He should therefore not introduce the clause of which he had given notice. At the same time he begged leave to state, that in the next Session of Parliament he would tnove for leave to bring in a Bill to prevent the continuance of any Parliament for more than three years. Sir E. SUGDEN was glad something at least would le left for a new Parliament to do.—(Hear, and a laugh.) The House then went into Committee. The 45th clause, by whirl► counties are to be divided into districts for polling by Justices in Sessions, was then earn- d, after some slight verbal amendments. On the proposal of the 46th clause, which relates to the erection of booths at the polling places, Sir E. SEJGDEN expressed his former opinion, that it would be impossible to carry the machinery of this clause into operation. Mr. HUGHES HUGHES said there was good reason why the booths should be provided by the county, and paid for at the county expense. That expense would be very trifling, if they could be made so as to be put up and taken down at every election. They might also be used for other county purposes. After a few words fiotn Mr. C. PELHAM, the clause was agreed to. The 47th clause was then put, which makes provision as to the Sheriff's Deputies, the custody of the poll-books, and the final declaration of the Kill. Mr. HOULDSWORTH and Sir C. WETHERELL both con tended that this clause would amount to a perpetual ob struction to all free elections in counties for the future. Lord ALTHORP defended the clause, and pointed out the futility of such objections. The clause was then agreed to. Tt e 48th clause, relative to the commencement and the continuance of polls at borough elections, was next read, and several verbal amendments were proposed and agreed to. On the part of the clause which provides that the polling " shall continue for twn days only, that is to say, for seven hours on the first day of polling, and for eight hours on the second day," Mr. C. FERGUSSON objected, that seven hours were too short a time to enable the contesting parties to arrive at a satisfactory conclusion. Lord ALTRORP replied that this number of hours had been appoin ed in order to prevent the polls being kept open et unseasonable and inconvenient hours in winter, when nightfall would necessarily interfere with the progress of business. Sir E. SUGDEN proposed, that " seven hours at least on the first day" should be inserted ; and the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's suggestion, after some conversation, was ultimately agreed to. Some other verbal amendments were then agreed to, after which the question " that the clause as amended do stand part of the Bill," was put and carried. The 49th clause—regulating the polling for boroughs in England and Wales at several booths, so that no more than 600 should vote at one compartment in a booth, and providing that if the booths are in different places, a deputy of the returning officer to preside at each place— was next put. Colonel SIBTHORPE objected to the clause, as sepa rating the candidate from the electors. Mr. HUNT complained that sufficient notice would not be given to the electors of the compartments in which they were to vote. Lord ALTHORP thought that the clause as amended would l'esufficii•ntly explicit in that respect. Sir C. WETHERELL thought the clause would b. ut terly impracticable. In a large and populous town, Man chester for instance, where there from 30,000 to 40,000 voters, it would be impossible for the returning officer so to divide the place into compartments of 600 voters each, so as to close the election in two days. Mr. STANLEY observed, that the Hon. and Learned Member did not seem to he aware that this itnpractable plan had been already in operation during two elections. A Bill was introduced by the Hon. Member for Worcester, and had passed, empowering the returning officer to divide large towns. into compartments, with 600 voters in each, and under this arrangement the last two general elections were conducted. Sir E. SUGDEN said his Hon. and Learned Pi fend was perfectly aware of the Act in question, but it was ap plicable to a state of things wholly different front that which would exist under this Bill. By this Bill the polling would last only two days, though the number of constitu ents would he greatly increased. Sir C. WETHERELL took the same line of argument in defending his objection. Mr. HUNT was of opinion that the classing of parishes in different booths would tend to confuse the electors, who would not know where they should go to vote. Mr. WILKS thought that in small boroughs the division of booths was unnecessary and inconvenient. Mr. STRICKLAND suggested, as a means of saving expense, that instead of enacting that the returning officer at the final close of the poll shall keep the poll-books un opened till the following day, and then declare the state of the poll, it should be " as soon as conveniently may be." Lord ALTHORP adopted the suggestion of the Hon. Member, so far as to add at the end of the clause the words " provided always that the returning officer shall declare th e final state of the poll, and make his return, immediately after the poll is finished." Mr. WILKS suggested, that instead of 600 el , ctors polling in one compartment, the number limited should be 1,000. The reply of Lord ALTHORP could not he heard. The amendment was not adopted. Mr. R. GORDON proposed the following addition to the clause :—" Provided always that no nomination or election of a Member to serve in Parliament shall be held in anv church or chapel or other place of public worship." Sir E. SUGDEN supported the amendment. Mr. CROKER concurred in the proposition, though he thought it unnecessary, as the practice was even now illegal. Mr. W. PEEL also supported the amendment, which was agreed to. The clause as amended, it was then agreed should stand part of the Bill. On the question being put on clause 50, — Mr. HUGHES HUGHES moved as an amendment, in the first part of the clause, that " all booths to be built fUr the convenience of taking palls shall be erected by the sheriff or other returning officer, at the expence of the county, city, town, or borough, requiring the same ; and the same shall remain the property of such county, city, town, or borough." Os object in this was to diminish the expence of elections, which was the professed object of the Bill. Sir E. SUGDEN would support the amendment, if it was proposed to offer a pretniton to strangers obtruding themselves as candidates where they were not known, and breaking in upon men of property. Lord ALTIIORP oliserved,that if this proposition were adopted, it would he necessary to empower the counties, cities, towns, and boroughs, to raise a tax to defray the expense of booths. He thought it not unreasonable to lay the expense on candidates. Mr. CROKER remarked, that it was a most extraor dinary proposal that the booths should he the property of the returning officers. lie supposed that this was what the lion. Member would call a mare's nest.--(Oh, oh.) After a few remarks from Mr. CRESSET PELI4A3I, Capt. SPENCER, and Lord J. RUSSELL, . . - _ Mr. HUG II ES withdrew his amendment, and the clause was then agreed to. Clauses 51 and 52 were agreed to without remark. On the question tieieg. put on clause 53, Lard G. SOMERSET intimated that it was his inten don to move that a new district of boroughs be formed in the county of Monmouth, for the purpose of sending one Member to Parliament. Lord J. RUSSELL suggested that this was not the proper moment for this amendment. The Noble L or d could bring it forward at a future stage, and if it were adopted, the clause should be altered accordingly. Lord G. SOMERSET said, he shanld be prepared to d so to-morrow. Mr. L. KNIGHT recommended a provision that each voter in a contributory borough should be entitled to vote in that borough alone. Lord Atm-tone's remark in reply could not be heard. The clause, as a.tended, was then carried. Clause 54 was carried without any comment or op position. On the CHAIRMAN putting clause 55, The ATTORNEY•GENERAL objected to including the barrister with the sheriff and other officers, who, by the clause, were rendered liable to actions for damages fin• wilfully contravening the provisiiins of the Act. Lord ALTHORP was inclined to concur with his Hon. and Learned Friend, as the barrister had no positive duty to perform but that of giving judgment, sad for which, if . .„._ h \. is j 4 ....... a . udgtnent were corrupt, he was lialde to proceedings 1 under other statutes. Lord J. RUSSELL supported the clause, and contended that the barrister had positive duties to perform. After an interlocutory discussion between Mr. Mr. J. Campbell, Mr. Knight, Mr. Hunt, ant the Attorney-General, Lord ALTHORP proposed that the (hue should be passed, with an understanding that it might itceive some modification, should the House thitk proper, when it was moved to bring up the report. The clause was then put and carried, and the two blanks left for the insertion of the maximum of damages were filled up each with 500/. Clause 56 was then put and carried neva. cow. Clause 57 was then put, and it teas ptopoSed to insert the sum of 10/. in the blank left fur the maximum of fine upon any person voting at an election by means of frAtdulently assuming the name of any rightful elector. Mr. C. PELHAM trusted that the clause did not su persede the former penalties for such a trzknsgression.— (Cries of " No, no.") Mm. WILKS thought the fine by fat. to ttnall. He should propose the stun of 511 t. Mr. HUNT wool" vote fur even 25/., but certainly he thought the fine otts:ht to be much greater than 10/. Colonel SIBTHORPE thought 50/. a proper amount of fine. Lord ALTHORP wished to state, that in addition to the fine the offender would be deprived of his franchise for lite. Mr. H. HUGHES suggested that t a.rs might occur in which the offender might not have any franchise to lose. Mr. WILIZS's proposition was then adopted without any division, and the blank was filled up with the words " fifty pounds." Clause 58 was put, and carried nem con. Clause 59 was likewise carried vent con. The CHAIRMAN then put the question, "That clause 60 (the last clause) do stand part of Bill." . . . _ A simultaneous cheer burst from the Ministerial Benches, which were very full. It was spiritedly t•e-echoed from the Opposition Benches, which were very empty. Lord AL CHO RP rote mid firmed to the opposite Mem - I ers.—(Cheers.) . Colonel SIBTIIORPE rose with violent agita , ion, and declared that he had opposed the Bill fairly and fearlessly. His side of the House was cheered by the supporters of Ministers, as if they had got through their labours. He could tell them that their labours were only commenced. —(A laugh.) He did not understand being treated with contempt.—(Continued laughter.) He would tell those who laughed at him, either in the House or out of the House, that he would support his opinions and vindicate himself to the last hour he had to breathe.—(Laughter, and cries of hear, hear.) He regretted that the Bill had passed so soon.—(Bursts of laughter.) The Bill had passed too speedily.—(Laughter.) If his opponents were tired, lie would not give up.—(Laughter.) He would never give in.—(Laughter.) He wits never put down in the House, and never would be. Ht. was never put down out of t.e House, and he defied the Hon. Member opposite, who was laughing at him, to put him down.—(Laughter.) [We could not exactly catch the particular Member to who n the Hon. and Gallant Colonel alluded, the laughter ap peared to us to be general.' He defied the Hon. Member to do it. The Hon. Member hid supported the Bill con scientiously, and why did he not suppose that he (Colonel Sibthorpe) had opposed the Bill with equal conscience ? (Cries of question, question, from all parts of tlie House. Colonel Sibthorpe with great vehemence)—He praye I to God that the Bill might nut pas,—(Cries of " Oh, oh," and " question, question.") If the Bill did pass, which he prayed to God might never be the case, all he had to say was, in the words of that great—that sublime statesman, now admired, and who, he fervently trusted, would have his memory fur ever preserved in that House. —" Oh, save my country, may God have mercy on it ! May God protect it from revolutions, and may he preserve in it all proper respect for the aristocracy--all proper respect for the"—(The Hon. Member was so interrupted with laughter, that we were unable to catch the objects for which lie invoked resp-ct.) He felt confide;,t that the Bill would not pass—such a Bill never could pass. The CHAIRMAN here interrupted the Hon. and Gal lant Member, by begging him only to give hitn permission to state simply what was the question before the Com mittee. It was, that after the words "be it enactea" the word " Treasury" &e. be inserted.—(Bursts of laughter.) The Gallant Colonel then sat down. The clause was put, and upon the CHAIRMAN saying " As many as are of this opinion, say aye," the House , resounded with cheers. "As many as are of the contrary opinion, say no."' One or two voices feebly uttered "No." " I think the ayes have it."—(Loud laughter, succeeded by cheers.) The Bill was tlen passed the Committee. Two other clauses were then proposed by Lord AL THORP, the one enacting that the list of voters should be printed and sold at a cheap rate in every district ; the other, that the Justices of the Peace in the neighbourhood of Shoreham and Cricklade should have the power of di viding those places into convenient districts, so as that the poll should be conveniently taken. Both clauses were agreed to after some desultory con versation. Lord ALTHORP said, there now remained one clause to be disposed of—(Hear, hear)—he alluded to the money clause, which related to the payment of barristers. He could not bring that chose before the Committee until to morrow. He should, therefore, move that the Chairman do report progress, and ask leave to sit again to-morrow and he very sincerely trusted that it would be the last time when he should be called upon to make any similar motion. —(Much cheering.) The House then resumed, the CHAIRMAN reported progress, and obtained leave to sit aga;n to-morrow (this day). _ _ The other orders of the day having been disposed of, the Howe adjourned at Two o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, SEPTEMBER 6. The Royal Assent was given to the Duchess of Kent's Annuity Bill, the Candle Duties Repeal Bill, the Bir mingham Poor Bill, Lefevre's and Taunton's Divorce Bills, and an Act to transfer the duties frog► the Receiver-Ge neral of Taxes to the tax-collector. The Assent was given by Commission, the Commis sioners were the LORD CHANCELLOR, the Duke of Bien- MONO, and the Rol of SHAFTESBURY. The Bishop of LONDON presented a petition fr4,tri Manchester and Salford against the Beer Bill. The REV. PRELATE also presented other two petitions from places in Gloucestershire, to the same eff et. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS presented a petition against the Beer Bill. Lord MELBOURNE moved the further consideration of the report on the Beer Act Amendment Bill. Fe begged tocall the attention of their Lordships to ti e subject of the time of shutting up the beer-house. In his opinion, the best regulation that could be made with respect to the beer-houses would he to go back to the 3d George IV., which compelled public houses to be shut At reasonable hours, and not to be opened before a reasonable hour. The Duke of WELLINGTON thou;ht that the Beer Bill would not give the Magistrates the power which the Noble Lord anticipated, and he thought it would be better that both public and beer houses should be put on the same footing. After a short conversation between the Earl of Iran- ROWBY, the Marquis of SALISBURY, and the Earl of SuIFOLK, The Bishop of BATH and WELLS was aware that a great many of the Magistrates were of opinion that they had the power of interfering with the beer shor, and hoped some clause would be introduced giving them such power. Lord TENTERDEN expressed a similar opinion, arid hoped that an express enactment would be in giving the power to all Magistrates to say what would be reasonable hours to govern those shops. PETITION , f the GRAND JURORS of MIDDLESEX RELATIVE TO CAPITAL PUNISHMENT. The Duke of SUSSEX rose, pursuant to notice, to present to the House a petition on one of the most impor tant subjects that could come under their Lordships' con sideration ; and were it not that he was aware that he would he assisted by several of their Lordships, as well as by the Government, and particularly by his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, who had presented a petition to much the same eff, et to the House of Commons in the course of the last year, he should almost sink under a sense of his own inadequacy to do justice to the cause of the petitioners. The petitioners prayed that their Lord ships would take under their consideratian the present state of the criminal law of this country, with a view to its revision and amendment ; and to disconnect the punish ment of death from crimes affecting merely the ri g ht s o f property, but unaccompanied with violence and bloodshed. The petition was signed by no less than 1,100 individuals, who were all liable to set ve as Grand Jurors for the county of Middlesex, and seven of whom had actually served as foremen in that capacity. Many of these were merchants and people of large property; and of 91 of them the property amounted to no less than twenty millions sterling ; so that their Lordships might be assured that they were people of respectability and consequence. The petitioners stated that their own private feelings of humanity had at various times bad a struggle with thetwelve., lest by finding persons gal should be accessory to a j u di c i a l m ur der; o °l o o this feeling somettmes induc e d Jur o r s and - at! e o give whet was vulgarly called a slip to the lavr,,i,,air criminals from this cause oft e n escaped th e ►hat)oo, of Lice. He had heard that many (A* the ret . r:iiic.ello suffered severely from the crime of forgery, and felt theliPeelves compelled to refrain from prosecutig i o that they had not only refrained from, prosicutiatii had actually themselves assisted the 'climinAls W the vigilance of the law, and to leave the co u t !try•4fl not his intention at present it') enter upon a long particulars'. He tneatit ic;prOp'os , l th:kt the IV shoilld be read, aril that iiVieoUid remain on their t.hips i table ; and, having done so, he would leadt subject in their Lordships' hands, trusting with dence that their Lord s hip s wou ld pa y a d ue re4alll sb'll prayer of the petiti on , an d t a k e t hi s i mpor tant Os into their most serious consideration. He great confidence that the Subject woUla tie taken "F ii i the present GovernMent, for it was most fitting t rof shoeild be taken up by Government, by whom a P n i and efficient measure would he most likely to be rero and pas , etl. He had great confidence in his Nohle o Learned Friend on th e W oo l sac k, w h o had- h_, 0 presented a similar petition to the Cott:mon," he had also great confideUae ISrdble head of the AilinihislrAtion; land in the other Noble,,i P who composed the Giivernmen., and fully c i , that they would p a y p ro p er at t ent i on to the 51 " He was anxious that the matter should be 01° , 11 . by Government, rather than by any privateo divi.lual, as the Government was the most to act with the p r op er p ru d ence an d caution; 81" as the best effect. He was not prepared to s ay , tal i punishment of de d th o ug ht t o h e ent i re ly t io ile 10101. yet, when he saw the N — t.it4 or our own law on the eu and that, as Sir W Blackstone had stated, there r one hundred and sixty Acts of Parliament demand 4 punishment of death, he could not help being ast° u° In some cases the punishment of death might 1e . .. A . sary, but at the same time he could not help woo l ' that the certainty of punishment would be much efficient that its severity; and that in many case', punishments, such as impri sonmen t, m i g h t b e subs with advantage for that of death, and then some , might be adopted for the reformation of the crinajoe k ' this could be done with advantage, then it must bl and prndent that it should be done: and now, tyb e ,! , professed to act on th e p r i nc ipl es o f c i v il an d liberty, it was high time that something should be that matter. He would only further add, that this most powerful p tiiion, and remarkably well calcll!tri drew attention to the suhj ct. It was signed bY persons only, and the reason was, that the signi!e: bi , none were admittei ex ce pt o f t h ose w h o we re serve on Grand Juries. Had it not been for that s tt stance, it would have been signed by many thousandtt and particularly by the people called Quakers, P r- to 4 whom hid signed this petition, hut who were resal o ottl man to com e f orwar d. Thi s was not t h e t i me to into the merits of the subject; he would therefor e . $! leave the p e titi on i n t h e h an d s o f t h e i r Lordships/ "! that his Noble Friend at the held of the Administri and the rest of the Members of the Government 7'h take the subject into their consideration. When the P t o, time came, he would state more at large his opinion fir' subject, and support, w i t h all hi s power, any pro per sure that Government might think fit to propose, nit view to carry into effect the object of the petitioner , • was not a novel subject with him, for he had freqn, and deeply considered it, although, not having bell o f any petitio n o f t hi s ki n d entrusted to h i m, he I'S j e troubled their Lordship with a statement of his opi° IJ He, however, felt a great pride in the confidence tb et ell been reposed in him by the present petitioners, altho°,,o 4 should re f ra i n f rom say i ng anything further on t h e at prt amt., lest he should overcharge it. He wont', o f ever, read to their Lordships a comparative stateme o t the numb er o f persons committed far cap i tal o ff° late years in this country, as comp 'red with those o r , e o nutted for capital o ff ences in Franc:. In 1825, 1,03 6 committed in this country for capital offences; e n , France 134. In 1826, in this country, 1,203 vt e ! ' committed ; in France 150. In 1827, there were s° mitttel in this country 1,529 ; in France 109. 11 , 1- there were s) committed in this country 1,165 ; in 114; and in 1829. there were so committed 111 .4 country 1,395 ; in France 89. H e wou ld now r i himself to read the petition. His Royal Highness re accordingly, and it was is follows : Split " TO THE RIGHT HONOURABL E T HE LORDS TUAL AND TEMPORAL OF THE UNITED 0,,1 1, DoM OF GREAT BRITAI N AN D IRELAN O PARLIAMENT ASSEMBLED. " THE PETITION OF THE UNDERSIGNED OS BITANT HOUSEHOLDERS OF THE CIS_„, LONDON, LIABLE TO SERVE AS JUROnei " Humbly Showeth,—Th a t y our pe ti t i oners view vitiosej regret the excessive and indiscriminate severity of the _ l 4 laws, which annex to offences of different degrees of rna"Lol. the punishment of death, and confound th e s imple in7l the rights of property with the mo s t m a li g n a nt and a crimes against the person and life of man. OA/ " That the recent Acts, passed with the professed inte .„j amend and improve the criminal laws, have not renfeltf i evil of which an enlightened community have the great t a A c so iv n il t i o za c t o io m n p , la b i } i , i r , e b ta u i t n h in a g ve th s e ti o ll pi l ,r e o ft br t i h o o u s :d l i az n s c a ti d o i n sg o r f a be ce i d most sanguinary of any in Europe. that theTll at lawswhich Christianity, affect common liberties reason ,and an so d th und e po n l v ic es Y of should proportion the punishment to the offence, and Tr" cruelty to the people, by examples of vindictive legitlatioay " That where public opinion does not go along with tt1, 1 4 C the persons who suffer under the m are regar d e d as the of legi-lative tyranny or judicial caprice, and not as air whose doom has been pronounced by the voice of divas ° d justice. " That the criminals ex ecu t e d i n thi s coun t ry are se ll of a far greater number sen t ence d to d eat h , and where tice condemns the la w , th e l aw oug h t to b e a l tere d , this , nals might suffer the punishment of their guilt by the 11_,,0r of defined statut es , an d not b y t h e uncertain and capriowl .1 1 of judicial discretion. " That in the present state of the law, Juries feel el, reluctant to convict, w h en th e p ena l consequences o f the excite a conscientious horror on their minds, lest the , performance of their duty as Jurors should make them to judicial murd er . H ence , i n C ourts o f J ust i ce, a maaldvi cessary and painful struggle is occasioned by the conflict 4 feelings of a just hum an it y w i t h th e sense o f t h e ohliga' ,0 an oath. " That witnesses also are very frequently reluctant evidence, as well as Juries to convict, lest they might upon their conscienc es th e sta i n o f blood; and thus c c ri ood who, under a more ration a l an d cons id erate code of lavis• meet the punishment due t o their crimes, escape with impunity. )1 11 " That for these reasons, your petitioners humbly p-jr I co ? Right Honourable Hou s e to take the Criminal Laws . 0 : - consideration, for the purpose of the revision and amen rj, of the same, by drawii:g a distinction between the simPil ti n; sion of the rights o f p roperty an d cr i mes o f violence antict, and by abolishing the penalty of Death in all cases in wl“, 10! m ; Legislative power cannot justify, in the eyes of God an. f that last and dreadful alternative—the extermination ° offender. " And your petitioners will ever pray, Scc. " [Signed by the different Foremen respectively oVif successive Old Bailey Grand Jurie s o f 1830, 50 L wards of eleven h un d re d merc h an t s , t ra d er s, either have served, or are eligible to serve as Jurors,, The LORD CHANCELLOR—The suhject wag 1 6 tainly of very great importance, and certainly well i r t if of the most profound cons id erat i on ; b ut non e of „Ili Lordships were call e d up on t o express any op i n ion cl o il matter in the petition at present ; and he should bt d hardly chtruded himself on their Lordships' attention' it nut been that he hid been particularly and rer g ',.. e ti ol' alluded to by his Royal Highness. Na one was at e r r p. however, called on to give an opinion on this, certal t ",/, simple, but, on the contrary, very complicated an d 1 t ill rate pies ion. That it was one which deserved the op t most degree of attention was undeniable. There wad bill thing mentioned in the petition, however, which ha d of ter, perhaps, have been mentioned in the other Hou se ',l l anywhere else, than in their Lordships' House, which the highest court of appeal not only in civil but in cr ye nal causes. After long consideration and practical l eOr rience, he had certainly been led to conclude th a 'e‘ i penal laws were capable of much amendment ill r r;p? of the severity of p un i s h men t s . B u t w h en the peu ll ,i p called for the a b o liti on o f t h e pun i s h men t of de 3t. 0 .0 regard to all crimes against property, if unattended P' murder or personal violence, he felt himself called declare that lie was not prepared to draw the line c,. / :1? in that man ner ; f or not hi ng , i n hi s op i n i on , could ' 1 judicious than thus to class climes which might I , c very differ en t c ha r act er u nd e r th e value denornliaBoli' Why was it that:it was held right to put a murderer to.detore, Not, certainly, because it had been said in Scil i a " Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his bl°' r It shed." They had no right to put even a murder dill death f or an y o th er reason than th a t it was expedi.cy scoot be should b e put to death. They had no other r i g, warrant, either in reason or religion. The objec t of: prevent others front committing the crime of r rill oo tl i ' and as the comfortable existence of society depende d to repression of that highest crane, it was ex client 01, cure its repression by attaching to its commissio,„,c, highest penalty. When a murder was committed, oldie' great evil had happened, they had no right to „. 0 (1 4 1 another great evil on the community by putting the olid eta to death, except that it was necessary that the sec ° O K, should be inflicted, because the good of society reg or do; that all means, even the sev e rest, should he used '",0 0 1 to check the crime o f mu rd er . It was right, b ee3 l , -- e cV man could be safe un l ess th e grav e st off e nc e s were c obi e , by the gravest p e nalti es . But th e r e w e r e other offences. octet} c ) although not of s uc h grea t a nd direct injury CO s tti ti, minder, yet had a ver y s tr ong t en d e ncy to the de" :o 4 / . and subversion of society ; and he was not peeP ib y p say that in all casts of that description, even th°%oiol i i attended with viol e n ce a nd bl o odshed, the highest Poo meat ought to be dispensed with. They ought