The Sun. — London, England, 1834-02-19 00:00:00

COURT OF CHANCERY, FEB. 18. PITT V. TOKELER. Mr. Pitt appeared to move for the discharge of an order made by his Honor the Vice-Chancellor of the 17th of March last, as well as all subsequent orders thereon and arising therefrom on the ground of irregularity, &c. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought it right to inform Mr. Pitt to what he felt bound to confine him on the present occasion. The notice of motion was very multifarious —some parts the court could, and some parts it could not hear. It would hear that part only which related to the discharge of the Vice-Chan cellor's order, and of the attachment upon which Mr. Pitt had been taken into custody. All other parts Mr. Pitt might bring forward, but they would have to come on regularly in their order. Mr. Pitt then stated he should confine himself as strictly as possible to the line prescribed by the Court. The irregularity he complained of was that according to the minute of the order made by his Honour on the 7th of March, the foundation of all subsequent proceedings, he (Mr. Pitt) was not to be pre judiced by that order in taking possession of certain premises. His opponents acted upon that order so expressed. They had forwarded to him a supposed draft of a supposed reference. He stated that that was not the draft to which he was entitled, and that it would have to be settled by the Master, because, according to the Court order, he was to receive the premises in the same state in which they had been, and without being prejudiced thereby. Not only had he that draft, but he had the bill of costs of the solicitors, in which there was a charge made for taking the steps required by that minute. From that time, however, to the present the minute had re mained its statu quo, and until the exigency of that order was complied with, he contended the !aches were not with him, but with the other side, and that they could not proceed to attach him as they had done, until after they had complied with the strict intention of the Vice-Chancellor. It had been said that every body was to look up to a Court of Justice with an expec tation that the strictest construction would be applied in favour of justice to both sides, and he had now to rely upon that prin. ciple. Speaking allegorically, if he might be allowed to advert to his profession, from which he had been torn by these unjust proceedings, it might hardly be necessary for him to state before so experienced an individual as his Lordship, that pro. vided a bad brick was laid on the foundation of an edifice, the superstructure must fall. In the present instance, he called upon the Court, as the great superintending workman, to de dare that as irregularity had characterised the present pro ceedings from the very first outset, all that had been built thereon must come down. He felt sorry that he had been re strained from disclosing, by the intimation from the Court, acts of the grossest outrage towards him that had ever been committed against any individual, and in his Lordship's name. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that he hoped Mr. Pitt would not understand he had restrained him from making a dis closure of any and every grievance he might have to complain of; he only desired to inform him, that, by the practice of the Court, he could only have an opportunity of doing so when it came to his turn, with the other suitors, to address the Court. He felt bound to do Mr. Pitt the justice of saying, that he had commenced this morning, by saying he would lay his case as hortly before the Court as gentlemen at the bar were in the habit of doing; he had indeed done so—nay, he had stated it so distinctly and concisely, as that the Court hoped the gen tlemen at the bar would take an example from the manner in which Mr. Pitt had stated his case. Mr. Pitt claimed no superiority to himself ; he only wished to have the privilege that was granted by Alfred the Great, that when a man could come forward and tell his own plain story he should be permitted to do so. At the Throne here after, before which all pleaders must appear, no particular cos. tume would be found to insure a passport there. An equal op portunity of pleading and of admittance would be awarded to the meanest mendicant as to the highest personage; and as long as he conducted himself decorously in that Court to his Lordship he had a right to be heard in calling for its protection and in terference, notwithstanding he wore not the costume of the bar. An inferior Judge had not seemed to think so—an infe rior Judge, and one whose salary should be opposed by him when the county rates came to be levied—(Much laughter)— because of his improper conduct and his unfitness to be conti nued even an inferior Judge. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought that now the better way would be for him to look at the affidavits, and to refer the question of whether certain costs had been paid under certain orders or not, which seemed to be in dispute, also, to Mr. Bedwell. Mr. Pitt would most happily accede to the proposition. The Loen CHA?4CLLEORsupposed the Learned Counsel on the other side would not object to it, as they could have no wish but to be paid. Mr. BACON did not object, and in this manner the thing for the present was disposed of. COURT OF KING'S BENCH, FEB. 18. HOVSTON V. MILLS, JOWETT, AND MILLS. The SOLICITOR-GENERAL stated that this was an action against the defendants for not printing the New Weekly Dispatch, in time for transmission by post on Saturday, the 9th of Novem. ber. He supposed that the defence to this action would be, that the defendants were afraid to print the paper on account of what they deemed to be libellous matter in the paper. He believed that the supposed libellous matter consisted of strictures on the present Ministers. He was not aware that any mere strictures on their conduct was libellous ; and he hoped that he should never see the day when strictures on the public conduct of Ministers, whether mild or severe, or even scurrilous,—and, indeed, the more scurrilous they were the less in his mind was there to fear from them—should be deemed libellous in this country. The Learned Solicitor-General then stated the cir cumstances of the alleged delay. The case having been opened, the amt witness who was called stated that the plaintiff bought the paper for 5/. on or before the 2d of November, and the de by in printing, which was the subject of the present action, took place on the 9th of November. Sir J. ScartLeTr then objected that the plaintiff must be called. The 59th Geo. 111., c. 78, required that the party who was the real proprietor and publisher of a newspaper should enter his name as such at the Stamp Office, and make an affi davit of the fact, and that such affidavit should be filed at such office. This paper appeared to have been purchased on or be. fore the 2d of November; the cause of action was alleged to have occurred on the 9th of November, and there was no affi. davit, such as was required by the Act, till the 13th of that month. His LORDSHIP directed the plaintiff to be nonsuited. BANKRUPTCY COURT, FEB. 18. (Before Mr. Commissioner Eva.Ns.) SIR 0. DUCKETT, MORLAND, AND CO'S. BANKRUPTCY. A meeting of the creditors under the commission of bank ruptcy awarded against Sir G Duckett, Sir F. Barnard, and Co., bankers, of Pall-mall, was held to-day, for the further proof of debts, and the declaration of a dividend on the joint estate. A great number of debts having been proved, Mr, Briggs, the solicitor to the estate, had to apply to the Court to obtain the release of upwards of 11,0001., which was attached, in order to meet the claims made upon it, on behalf of certain legatees. Dividends had been set apart to meet these claims, but property under the several estates having been locked up, he called upon Mr, Barron to make his selection, in order that a portion of those separate assets might that day be made applicable to a dividend. He contended that the parties making the claim should either prove against the separateestate or the joint estate. Mr. Barron, upon the merits of the case, thought the Com mieioners would allow the claim to stand. The facts were t h es e late Mrs. Morland made a deed of covenant for the sum of 2,0001. to a Mrs. Spencer; Mrs. Morland left be hind her about 10,0001., which were given in legacies by her will. Site bad also a personal estate of 40,0001. the whole of which was in the banking-house, besides the real estate, which had been enjoyed by the banking firm. Two of the bankrupts were trustees for the legacies, and they left the assets in the hands of the bank, to the credit and account of - Mrs. Morland's executors. A really bad case, therefore, existed as far as the parties were concerned who were entitled to the legacies. The legatees were most certainly entitled to prove for the 10,0001., and to have their dividends secured out of :he joint estate, and go upon the private estates of the two parties who were the executors, until they had 20s. in the pound. A bill had been filed in Chancery, praying that the assets of Mrs. Morland's executors should be restrained from being sold, and until the result of this application in Chancery was known, the Commissioners would not make, he felt confi dent, any order. Mr. Commissioner EVANS thought it was perfectly clear that the claims should be allowed to stand until the result of the application to the Court of Chancery was known. The amount of debts was 4,3521. ss. I Id., which, together with claims formerly on the proceedings, now allowed as proofs, made the total of proofs 11,4321. 19s. 6d. The amount pre viously proved, and on whieh 2 dividends have already been paid, was 142,2791. Is. Bd. The total debts and liabilities, as jar as they are ascertained at present, are rather above 152,0001. A further dividend was anneur.ced to-day of ten. pence in the pound. Two previous dividends have been made —one of 4s. 4d., and another of Is. Bd., in the pound. The total dividends, including that of to-day, therefore amount to Os. 10d. in the pound. PAVILION THEATRE.-A new version of Lurline, or the Revolt of the lilaides, was brought out here onMonday night with great splendour and effect. Very material alterations have been made from the original tale ; it is also assisted by some good music and acting. The scenery, too, is vet) , beautiful : the Hall of the Harem, by Denson, and Lutlie Berg, by Telbin, etti..2,ially so. The dresses and decorations are splendid in the extreme; and, indeed, all the stage appointments are magnificent and ap propriate. The bathing scene, the ballet, and the Ama zonian manceuvres of the s,.raglians, were vociferously applauded, and the whole went off with great eclat. We need .lot say more, except that Miss Grove personated Lurline to the life. The spirit of the water nymph was in all her looks and actions ; rod she received much well. merited ardente. Burton, as Winidersan, was a• awkwardly amusing as could be wisied. The house wa, crammed almost to suffocation, and the announcement of the piece for repetition was received with a tumult of ap probation. The dances arranged by Mr. E. Yarnold, do tim great credit. IMPERIAL PARLstAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, FEIS. 18. Lord KENYON presented a petition, signed by up wards of three hundred persons, from St. Saviour's Church Wardle, in the county of Nottingham, against any inroads on the Established Church. Lord ROMNEY presented a petition from the Pro• testant Dissenters of Allistone, complaining of the griev ances under which they laboured, and asking for redress. The Duke of RICHMOND presented a petition from the holders and occupiers of land in the county of Southampton, for an extension of the Labour Rate Act. The Noble Duke also presented similar p.titions from Gosnar and Beckner in the county of Lincoln. Lord DACRE presented a petition from the Dissenters of Ashby-de-la Zutich, cnmplainiog of the grievances under which they laboured, and praying for relief. SESSIONAL ORDERS. Upon the motion of the Earl of SHAFTESI3URY, it was resolved that the House should not receive any peti• tion for a private Bill after Monday, March 24; nor any report from the judges on such petition after Monday, April 14. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY, in the absence of the Lord Steward (the Duke of Argyll), who bad met with a serious accident in consequence of a fill from his horse, on his way to the House, stated that his Majesty, in answer to the several addresses be bad received, had ordered the various papers to be laid on the table of the House. MESSAGE FROM THE COMMONS. Mr. BERNAL, and other Members of the House of Common, brought up the Turnpike Road Continuation Bill, which, on the motion of the Duke of RICHMOND, ' was read a first time, and ordered to be read a second time on Thursday next. The House then adjourned to Thursday next at half past three o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS', FEZ. 18. A message from the Lords, respecting the Court of Chancery, was brought up. Mr. Alderman WOOD moved for leave to bring in a Bill for the regulation of the metropolitan stage coaches. Mr. WASON gave notice of a motion for bringing in a Bill to allow the votes of the electors of the borough of Saffron Walden, to be taken in one day. Mr. POLLOCK moved for a return of copies of all charters and orders in council issued in New South Wales. Mr. FINN gave notice of a motion for bringing up the report of the Commissioners appointed to inquire into the condition of the poor laws in Ireland. Mr. WALL took the opportunity of asking the Noble Lord (Althorp) whether the funds of the Savings Banks bad been appropriated to the payment of the West In dia loan ? Lord ALTHORP replied that there had been some un necessary alarm about the safety of the deposits in the savings banks, but such alarm had originated in an entire mi,conception of the intentions of Government. Mr. WALL said, that it was not his intention to inquire into the security of the deposits in the savings banks, he quite agreed with the Noble Lord, that any appre hension on the part of the owners of these deposits would be quite absurd. What he wished to ask was, whether the twenty millions granted to the West Indians last session had created any decrease in the stock of the savings banks ? Lord ALTHORP was understood to reply, that what ever bad been done had not bad such an effect upon the funds alluded to. THE PRESS. Mr. O'CONNELL rose, according to the general expectation of the House, to bring forward his motion fur " establishing the liberty of the press." He com menced by observing that the law of libel was at present in so unsatisfactory a state, that he did not see that there could be any objection to give him leave to bring in a Bill to amend that law. It might be a matter of consideration as to how far his Bill might remove the evils to be complained of, but that would be a matter for future discussion ; it would not affect the question as to whether he should bring in a Bill or not. He therefore bad to apologize to the Hon. Member for St. Aligns for introducing his Bill, which he would not have done if lie had not the advantage of practical knowledge acquired in courseof the discharge of his professional duties. The basis of his plan was to secure the freedom of dis cussion—to increase the facilities of freedom of discussion, by taking away many of the impediments to that freedom which at present existed. The object of the low of libel was to protect public and private character. His object on the contrary was to give increased power to the tribunal of public opinion. While he would protect public and pri vate character, he considered that it would be right to give full facility to the public mind to display itse f upon delinqueucies both public and private. He knew of no power so great upon the public mind as that of the Press, and therefore his object was to strike down those parts of the libel law which inre:•fered with public discussion, while he would give full protection to charac er. If he could unite both these onj•'cts, giving sufficient facilities to the display of public sentiment and morality by means of the press; if he could do that, and at the same time leave sufficient remedies and sufficient protection to individuals, he would have obtained his object. He had stated it was his intention to be brief, and he would not, therefore, venture at any length into the anomalies of the law of libel, but it would strike Honourable Members at once that there existed this anomaly in the law of England—•hat fats-hood was not punishable it it were of a particular nature, and that truth was punishable no matter what its nature might he, whether relieious, political, or moral. The falsehood of flattery was not punishable ; the worst of Governments, and the worst of men, might be praised. The greatest miscreants might be deified—and yet such conduct would be perfectly justifiable, though it really lessened the importance of private character, which he considered the most important thing of all. The other anomaly was that truth was punishable, and some of the Judges had gone the enormous length of saying that the greater the truth the greater the libel. By the libel law in crimi nal matters, the truth was put upon the record, if likely to provoke a breach of the peace, but no libel was so likely to excite to a breach of the peace as that which con tained a string of truths.—(Hear, hear.) This was a legal fiction and absurdity ; and thus if a man were guilty of a breach of the peace, he was punished with a fortnight, or a month, or six weeks' imprisonment, and a fine of 5/., 101., or 201., but if he was guilty of a con. structive breach of the peace, although the principal crime was visited with little punishment, the accessorial one was punished by six, twelve months, or even two years' im prisonment, and heavy fines for publications merely tending to provoke a breach of the peace.—(Hear.) If a man made a speech, or published a document, he might show that he was justified in doing so ; he might be a Judge or Commissioner, or be discharging some ofhcial situation under Government ; or perhaps it might be the speech of a lawyer in a court of justice. Now, many circumstances might occur to mitigate the con tingent fault of publishing in such manner ; but strange to say, the truth of the publication was the only circumstance that did not tend to palliate the accidental offence that a publication might give. This was very extraordinary. The general rule for arguing on libels was the improper intention in publishing the libel. Wel!, what better or so good criterion was there for inferring the intention of the publisher than the truth of the state ment made? If it were true, it was a conclusive argument that there was no inducement or motive to exaggerate the original fact ; and the intention might be easily come at by the ebsence of any exaggeration. What most of all contributed to open the eyes of the public on the law of libel, was the absurdity of punishing innocent persons. The law of libel was so indefinite, so indescribable, that any one might find a libel against his character, provided a speech or publication contained anything offensive to his individual feelings. Nothing but praise was exempt from the construc tion of a libel. That was the legal description of it. Lord Redesdale had been called a thick-and-thin special pleader, Lord Hardwicke a sheepfeeder from Cambridge shire, and each of the documents were held to he !ihel• ious.—(Hear, hear.) He (Mr. O'Connell) bad never looked at a newspaper in his life without seeing a libel hi it in point of law. When a newspaper took one side of a question, it was sure to libel those who were of an opposite way of thinking, and he verily believed that if it were to be at all scrutinised it would be felled to libel both sides.—(Laughter.) What was the next consequence ? Why, that every seller and newsreader was equally liable to be indicted for libel ; for it had been gravely held that it was the duty of every newsvender to take care that he did not circulate libels. Hence no roan was at liberty safely to sell a news paper, without first reading it through, and next ~scerc oining legally that it contained nothing lit ellous. But another thing that affected gentlemen much snore— it was not necessary coat the party circulating*, a libel should receive money, because if aoy Hon. M em b e r of that House went into a club-house, read a newspaper with a libel in it, and handed it tactless to another gentle m in, he was equally guilty, and liable to he prosecuted with tie person who might have sold the paper. He defied any lawyer to say that that was not the case ; and lie l:ad no doubt, if about ball a dozen Hon. Gentlemen, Members of ,he conservative Club, were indicted for libel in this way, the law of libel would very soon be altered. Such being the law of libel, it being penal in all cases to say anything with respect to Government, to circulate anything where private feeling was hurt, and the truth not being allowed to he given in evidence, it was clear that the law of libel had existed to the present day, only because of the im practicability of cerryine it into effect in most c e,ee. There was a law of public opinion to counteract the law of libel; there was a power of the press which was exceedingly great in this country, and which was di rected against every man who put the law of libel into execution. In support of this position he would only mention the instance of Lord Durham. In a newspaper his conduct with respect to his private property had been represented as exceedingly tyrannical, and falsely so. His Lordship resorted to a criminal prosecution, upon which an outcry was raised against him, as if he had been guilty of the vilest and most oppressive tyranny which had ever degraded any man. What would be the use of the law of libel if it could not be had recourse to in such a case as that? As long as the law of libel remained as it was at present, no one could resort to it without being coveted with the filth and mud with which it was encumbered, and that law required amendment if it were only in order to be cleansed from that fill]. Counsel were not at liberty to prove the truth, but they could make insinuations which were far worse. He had known a man get 5001 damages for a libel, and yet from what was said or insi nuated he was obliged to leave the country. There was, in fact, at present, no remedy nor any redr ess, for the law was a bad one. The Counsel dared not to speak the truth, and complained how cruel it was that he should not do so; but a counsel could say, " If I could but tell this or that," mentioning then certain circumstances, and thereby insinuating the whole truth. The law at present was so bad, that its effects had, in fact, re-acted upon itself. It eves from that consequence that he wanted to vindicate the law. The present law of libel was founded upon the Westminster Statute and that of the 211 of Richard 11., which made it punishable to circulate false rumours. It might be said that juries would give but small damages i❑ cases of newsvenders or newspapers that merely copied the libels. For those he intended to provide. But in Ireland merely a farthing damages carried costs, and the judges had no discretion. In England the judges had a discretion, but in many cases, as in the recent instance of Mr. Hunt's, the defendant's costs amounted to 801. There was no Peet) , for the proprietors of newspapers. The was one subject with which he did not intend to meddle, and that was that part of the law relating to blasphemous libels ; but the reason was that he did not wish to excite any opposition to his Bill ; therefore he thought he acted wisely in not involving himself with those who were of opinion that the law in that respect ought to continue. His own private opinion was, that it ought not to exist, and that there ought to be no law prohibit• ing paragraphs respecting Christianity. He merely slid this much in order to protest against its being supposed that he did not believe the law required alteration in that respect. He would confine himself to prosecutions and actions. He begged to call the attention of the House to the distinc tion between the law of libel and the law of slander. The definition of libel in our law was written calumny, and that of slender was oral calumny. One would have thought tbat the one being the foundation of the other, the law would have been equal in both cases. Now, no man could bring an action for slander unless it imputed to him some crime—something dishonest of him in his business—or unless there had some special injury resulted from it. Ia every one of those eases there was comp actual damage, but in written slander the case was quite altered, and the law in the former cases was entirely broken through. It was an absurdity that such anomalies should exist, and he trusted the House would now see the necessity of altering it. In order to afford, as it was called, relief, be knew it was at one time the intention of an Honourabie Gentleman to bring in a Bill for raising up the law of slander to that of libel—be bad very great respect for the gentle man with whom that opinion originated, but that was not his plan; be wanted to cut down the law of libel to that which at present existed in regard to slander—(Hear, bear)—and then there would be a tangible and a definite rule. He would take the liberty of trespassing a little longer on the time of the House, but he trusted it would be for only a short time, as he meant to make his statement as short as pos sible. He would then come to the prosecutions for libel. There were two kinds of those; first, public prosecutions, and second, private ones. Anything that was thought to disparage the Government—that, even by themselves, was thought to bring them into disrepute, was now the subject of a public prosecution. Now, he meant to put an end to that.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He proposed to sub stitute in place of it a very simple machinery —be proposed to alter the law as it now stood with regard to accessorial matters. In former laws it was enacted that no man should be tried , as an accessary unless the principal was first convicted ; now the law was altered, and an accessary might now be tried although the principle should nut Fe found. He pro posed to extend that principle to the law of libel, so that any man who had counselled or advised a crime to be com mitted should be punished, without waiting for the clime being committed—without waiting for the publication of the libellous matter. He proposed, therefore, almost to strike at the root of the crime altogether. The liberty of the press could never be secured unless as he proposed, the eider, abettor, and counsellor of the libel could be got et without the fact of the publication being in proof. He would then touch upon private libels, and as to them he would not have anything called a libel except the matter was the same as would now be actionable as oral slander. The next step he proposed to take was to do away with all ex officio informations.—(Cheers.) The prosecutions for libel should be on the same grounds as those on indictments.—(Hear, hear.) The Court of King's Bench should not grant a criminal information unless the party making the application should have Met denied the truth of the allegation. This was curious. What a man was not allot; ed to urge is his defence was made a preliminary stage far his accuser. It was a strange anomaly, and one which in his opinion well deserved reproach. Then the fact came to be tried upon affidavit, which was the worst possible way ; in the absence of witnesses, without cross-exami nation, and in the clumsiest and worst way, the fact came to be tried, and when once an information was granted they might as well sentence the party at one,. The Court had already decided, and he did not know one instance out of fifty thousand in which a party having had a criminal information granted against him bad been ac quitted.—(Hear, hear.) There might be some rare cases, but they only proved the efficacy and strength of the general rule. The next point in his Bill would relate to the improper jurisdiction of the Ci own, and he would take away, for instance, the right of reply where the defendant gave no evidence. He would reduce it to the rationale of other cases, and if the defendant's Counsel merely commented on the evidence of the Crown, he would not allow the Counsel for the Crown a second speech. lalut where the defendant gave evidence he would go further, and though he would allow the Counsel for the Crown a second speech, he would give the defendant the last word.—(flear, bear.) This might be called disputation. Many might agree in it, and others might oppose it. He would not suffer it to prevent blue from bringing in his Bill, as it might be matter for future consideration. With regard to spe cial juries, he would take the case of Mr. Cohen as an instance. He hoped that Honourabie Members had read the species of libel for which that gentleman had suffered. There had been several incendiary fires, and that gentleman had published a passage in his paper respecting them. A criminal information was not applied tor, but the magistrates who were his judges got angry at the publication. The case had been brought before a special jury, consisting of magistrates who were both judges, grand jurors, and in this case special jurors, with the view of trying a publication which they considered to be directed against themselves. This jury decided that the publication was intended, as laid in the indictment, to continue the incendiary fires. This was horrible, and deserving the severest unisl•mcnt. The Jury convicted, but what did the Judge say to the prisoner when brought up for judgment? Why, be told him that he had been convicted by the jury, but that he (the Judge) who tried the case was convinced that the prisoner had no such inten tion, and only sentenced him to six months imprisonment. lie would say, therefore, that these distinctions should exist in all prosecutions for libel, that if the defendant chose to have a Special Jury he should have it, but that the prosecutor should nut. What he wanted was to pug guards round the press, as he had high notions of the value of public discussions of alt kinds. He begged it to be. recollected that the adoption of the course he suggested would not at all interfere with the right of action, because if any man was injured he would have his right of action. Still any party would have tffe right of having a special jury if they pleased. The object was to proceed by indictment instead of criminal informa • non; and for this reason—the Attorney General could only fie his intormation in Term, and judgment only could b e given in the same pericd. The proceeding would be different by indictment. T , iese were the principal fea,ur es 0: his plan for a reform of the libel law, adding the al • i l o w,nce of the truth of the allegation to be given in evidence in criminal cases, his opinion being (he knew many differed from him on that point) that the truth of the allegation ought to be a good defence.—(Hear, bear, hear.) He did not go to the full length of say ing that the truth of the publication should in all cases be a full satisfaction ; but he thought it ought to be so in ninety-nine cases out of one hundred. To attempt to prove the truth in such cases would only be to irritate the Judge and Jury, and aggravate pu nishment. He feared he had trespassed too long upon the time of the House, and was thankful for the patience with which it had heard him. He would now turn to actions for libel, and one of the first observations lie should make was that he should he unwilling to touch the principles of the existing law, but he meant to introduce a clause which would tend to put an end to speculative actions. The clause he proposed to introduce was, that if any man did not recover more than 40s. damages, be should not obtain costs—(Hear, hear)—but, on the con trary, should pay costs.—(Hear, hear.) If he should recover only 20/. damages, he should receive no costs, but he should not have to pay any. If he should recover 501. damages, he should receive the same amount in costs; and if he should recover more than 501., then he should obtain ull coats against the person by whom it should appear to a jury of his neighbours that he bad been slandered ; so that the man who had libelled him would be punished by the payment of all costs. These were the principal heads of the Bill which he was about to bring in. He should not trespass furthrr upon the time of the House, but thanked them for the indulgence with which they had favoured him. The Hon. and Learned Member then moved for leave to bring in a Bill to esta blish the liberty of the press. On the question being put from the Chair, Sir F. VINCENT rose and said that he agreed with the Hon. Member in the truth of many of his observations. The Hon. Member observed that the case of Mr. Cohen, the editor of the Brighton Guardian, was one which would illustrate the question. Such was the con stitution of Grand Juries that whatever evidence a witness gave before them, it was not possible to indict him for perjury ; and in the event of a true bill, forty-eight hours' notice of bail was given, and three times out of four there was no prosecution. However, these were points which would more properly be consi dered in Committee. He should be most happy to sup port the general principle of the Bill proposed by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, reserving to himself the liberty of suggesting those alterations and additions which might appear desirable. Mr. JERVIS intimated that it was his intention to propose that the whole matter should be referred to a Committee. Lord AiTHORP said be could not agree to the ap pointment of a Committee until he knew what course was intended to be pursued ; at the same time, be thought it was desirable that the law of libel should be amended. He did not rise for the purpose of opposing the Bill, but to answer two or three principles laid down by the Honourable Gentleman, with whom he agreed to a certain extent, but could not go so far as he went. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman said that truth might be pleaded in all cases of criminal prosecution. Yes, but that was no inference for the same in regard to truth in private life.—(Hear, hear.) The divulging of it might be often imperious. He (Lord Althorp) did not intend to go further into the subject at present, for he would not follow the Honourable and Learned Gen tleman, who had gone into the arguments of the question very minutely. He would reserve to himself the right of objecting to any part of the proposed Bill, and dimi nishing it in all parts, as necessity might suggest. Mr. FLEETWOOD wished to ask whether it was the Hon. and Learned Member's intention to introduce a clause into the Bill to prevent a civil action being brought against more than one person for the same libel ? Mr. O'CONNELL had no intention of limiting the number of actions, but if the party bringing the action did not recover more than 40 shillings damages, the party would not only not get costs, but in all probability have to pay them. _ _ FLEETWOOD could not refrain from ex pressing a hope that the Honourable Gentleman would withdraw a clause, requiring that there should be regis tered at the Stamp-office or somewhere else, the bona fide owner of every publication sent forth to the world, who might be made at all events responsible, in the first instance, for the libels that might appear. Leave was then granted to Mr. O'Connell to bring in a Bill to establish the liberty of the press. PENSION LIST. Mr. HARVEY, in rising to move for the appointment of a Select Committee to it quire into the consideration for which each pension had been granted, as the sums ap peared by the printed returns of August last, thought there was little occasion for him to appeal to the indulgence of the House. True it was, that in the last Parliament be should have viewed the unusual array of Hon. Members opposite with no inconsiderable appre hension. He should have considered that many, and the great body of those whom he had the bonnur now to address, bad been invited thither by some Treasury notice, intimating that a formidable and ex ceptionable motion was about to be submitted to con sideration. In a reformed Parliament, however, he felt assured no such summons was necessary to invite the repre sentatives of the people to the redemption of their solemn engagements. He would appeal to every gentleman who heard him, and who called to mind the solemn compact into which he had entered with his constituents, to tell him whether there was any subject of a domestic interest, what ever its nature, to be compared to the Pension List ? --(Hear.) If he were calkd on now to say what was the cause more than any other, that burled the last Government from their position and placed the present one in their places, he should say that it was the hostility of the one to, and the avowed declarations of the other in favour of, an inquiry into the pensions.—(Hear.) He was now addressing several Members who were present when the question respecting the Civil List was brought before the House, on the accession of his present Majesty to the throne, and when it was proposed that the Pension List should be reduced to 144,0001. An Hon. Member, now the Member for Dundee, then moved an amendment and enforced it by various cogent, and, as the result proved, successful reasons, that the proposed list should be referred to, and scrutinized by a Select Committee. That amendment was resisted, but it triumphed ; it over threw the Government of that day, and it introduced the reformers of the present, and this was the first occa sion since that the pension list had been impartially and coolly submitted to the attention of the House. He was most anxious now to bring it forward, because every day confirmed the irregularity of the practice and strength ened the plea by which the pensions were maintained. It was true that before and after the passing of the Reform Bill various incidental discusions upon the subject had taken place. Previous to the passing of that great measure, however, everything else was considered of minor impor tance, for fear of endangering that Bill. But it was not forgotten—it only slumbered for a time.— (Hear.) They had now triumphed in that great object, and the people more than that House, more than the Govern ment, and even more than a constitutional Monarch, bad secured that splendid triumph, and were now only anxious to reap the benefit of it. There was now no object on which the expectations and anxious hopes of the people were more deeply fixed than the pension list. In his opinion, every man who felt himself pledged to the country for economy, every man who did not shrink from his engagements to the people—(Hear, hear, hear) — every roan who was prepared to say that his promises were not mere delusion, must keep to his post, and not be absent on the present occasion. —(Hear, hear, hear.) He could wish, not only upon this, but upon all similar occasions, that a different course could be pur sued, which would save the time of the House. In his opinion, in the present instance the debate ought to have commenced with the opposition to the motion. He was quite aware of the mass of ingenuity and sinister dexterity that those who brought forward the motion had to en counter ; but it would be enough for hint to say, that he felt convinced the present motion would be carried ; he was not so apprehensive for the fate of the mo•ton upon its merits, as front the ingenuity which he saw around him, lie were to untold the Pensio❑ List, and speak of any individual in terms of measured kindness, all the fashion of the Court would be in arms, and when they heard the Honourable Member for Colchester single out Lady A. or Lady 8., what a pity it would he that every body on that side of the House should not be in Court uniforms, as in the ease of the mover and seconder of the address on the first day of the session. He could conceive the case of a party de claring he was prepared to ascertain what the motion was, but that when he heard the Hon. Member for Colchester, and heard himn speak of Lady A. and 8., and speak of them, too, in democratic language, he was up in arms and ready to denounce the conduct of the House. Still was he determined to press the inquiry, and willingly could he leave it to the decision of a Committee of that House, after its having declared, perhaps with rudeness, out certainly with candour, on a former occasion, that an inquiry ought to be instituted, and that it would be well pleased to refer the whole matter to the investigation of a Committee. Let the Committee of Inquiry be but ap pointed, and lie would venture to say that there was not a fair dame on the pension list, from the oldest dowager down to the youngest and freshest beauty, who would not be found to have earned he: portion by sow oubstan-• tial and honourable service. —(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Let it not be supposed that the people of England, although speaking in uncouth language, and with ungloved band and uncourtly step, were desirous of depriving these fair and fashionable personages of the fair reward of their merit; all they wished to know was, how and why they had obtained such rewards, and the grounds upon which they ought to be coettinued to then,. Let it not for a moment be said that the generosity of the people would refuse those grants. Indeed the real fault of the people was, that they were ready to outstrip even the means which Parliament and the Government possessed to re ward those who bad served them, provided only that they were made acquainted with the nature and extent of the service rendered. There was not a person in this country, however lowly his station, however slowly 1 e might wend his way through the difficulties by which he was surrounded, who was not anxious to reward merit where merit had been displayed in the public service. Surely then, it was not ton much to refuse to that people an account of the nature and extent of the service rendered. But hitherto all accounts of this kind had been refused. Prior to Mr. Burke's celebrated Bill on the pension list, there was no limit to it beyond public decency, and how small that decency was, the House might form an opinion from what took place upon that occasion. In the reign of George 111. the pension list was brought under the consideration of the House, and the highest authority was quoted to show that the pensioners were so appointed under the King's Royal pre rogative ; in fact, it was urged that the King did all— that he had a right to do all--with respect to that list. Upon discussion and an attempt at investigation, it was found that there was an item of 95,0001. of pensions for England, a sum of 50,0001. for Scotland, and an ade quate proportion for Ireland, and then Hon. Gentle men of that day, wise and honest Senators no doubt, found out that the pension list could not be disposed of by the Crown without the control of the House of Com mons. Well, after the pension list was declared to be open to inquiry, various measures were resorted to, much ingenuity was exerted to obtain some information on the subject, but as usually the case where place and power conjoined, there was much more ingenuity employed to evade such inquiry. At one time a motion was made, calling for an entire list of pensioners, with the grounds upon which they had received their pensions. But this was at once met with a denial, and—" Oh no," said the Ministers of that day, " you cannot call for the entire list, you have no right to it, as it is at the disposal of the Crown ; but point out to us any instance where you say that a pension has been improperly bestowed, and we will inquire into it." Thus matters proceeded from time to time, but as patriotism raised the thermometer of public opi nion a fair and full inquiry was insisted upon. But witheut detaining the House further, he had batter come at once to what took place in 1830, when the prerogatives of the Crown with respect to the pension list under went inquiry, and when the price of that inquiry was to a certain extent their extinction. On that occasion the civil list was referred to a Committee, and he had now before him the names of the gen tlemen who were appointed to compose it. It was then stated by the present Right Hon. Member for Dundee, then Member for the Queen's County (Sir H. Parnell), that the pension list was an object which re quired the strictest and closest scrutiny. But the Com mittee, for some reason or reasons which he could not that of this sum, 75,0001. was to continue on the Civil c i o .i m ie p e re i h v e a nd zis e t nt a e m re o d u i n n t t e o d no tl in , ut an th d ey th el e i y d s th a.i i d s : List, and the other sum, the faience that was 'amount ing to nearly an equal sum, was to be placed upon the 1 1 4 " 4 ir , y 000/ B . consolidated fund. Thus decrepit old age on the one band, and blooming infancy on the other, were cut off from A to H oe the civil list, and the rest were placed- on the consolidated fund, so that when death had established a more solid claim to these recipients of 75,000/. than this House had, it was so arranged th tt their successors might lay lawful claim, for so he supposed he must call it, to a continuance of such pensions. Now he was in no way a party to this arrangement, and therefore he might be per- mitted to say that considerable liberality was manifested in it as it went to cut down the pension list, which was pre. vious to Mr. Burke's Bill declared to be enormous, and left at the demise of the crown a comparatively small sum, a sum of '75,000/. He thanked God that he was an ob scure man—one of those whose words, though uttered to-day, would be forgotten to-morrow. He did not pre tend or hope to be one of those bright dazzling geniuses, who, if they were to arise from the grave some thirty years hence, might be told " on such a day, and on such a subject, you said so and so."—(Hear, and a laugh.) - He would not go into details at present, but would reserve' himself, particularly as it had been already admitted that such an inquiry ought to be entered into. The Noble Lord opposite, it would be recollected, had, in July last, in common with many Hon. Members, whose names it would be invidious to mention, declared that the question of the pension list was one which ought to be, and which must be brought under the consideratir n of the House. Upon the occasion of a grant being asked for, in which the pension list was included, the Noble Lord (Al thorp) came forward, and with his usual candour and straightforwardness declared, that in voting in favour of that grant, no man would be committed as to the vote be might feel inclined to give upon an inquiry into the pension list, should that question be again brought under the consideration of the House. The Noble Lord bad stated in 1831 (he believed) that it was certainly true there were many persons on the pension list to whom pensions ought not to he granted, but that the greater portion of the persons upon it were objects of charity, to take away trout whom the sums bestowed upon them would be to inflict an injury—(Hear)—although it was admitted by hire that the House had a right to take awry those pensions if they pleased. But the main point upon which the Noble Lord rested was, that no Alember was to be committed by his vote upon that occasion, in the event of any further inquiry into the pension list. Now he would venture to say that the whole question was as much open to inquiry as it was in 1830, when the Right Hon. Member for Dundee (Sir H. Parnell) declared that " the pension list required the strictest and closest inquiry." If then this were so, how, he would ask, were they to proceed ?—(Hear, hear, hear.) It he were to place confidence iu the rumours which were abroad, he must come to the conclusion that his motion was to be re sisted. Was this an ? But he felt that he ought to cease to trouble the House further by arguments, and at once ask them were they prepared to stultify their own resolutions ? Motions had recently been made on this subject, which, if he reminded Hon. Members of them, they might turn up their eyes and say that they did not remember. In May, 1833, be (Mr. D. W. Harvey) moved fur a return of all the pensions then existing on the civil list, the amount of the whole, the names of the par ties, the services for which they were granted, &c. The Noble Lord opposite said he was perfectly willing to go as far as to give an account of the pensioners placed on the consolidated fund ; but that he must refuse any ac count of the civil list. But the Noble Lord, feeling the full force of the question, and being unwilling to shake off that high character which he had acquired while sitting on the Opposition side of the House, consented that the motion should pass. It was true , that the Pa y master of the Forces entered the House just after he had concluded his reply, and happy was it for him (Sir. Harvey) that it was so, for as it wee, he had to beg for mercy, or else he would have been so mangled and disfigured, that he must have been unable to appear before them on the pre.- sent occasion, and it be did appear, it must be upon signing a truce, and giving a pledge to abjure for ever all intererence with the pension list.—(Hear, and a laugh.) He would read the order of the 22d of May, 1833, being the first session of the reformed Parliament, in which he found that an humble address was ordered to lie presented to his Majesty, praying that he would be graciously pleased to order that there be laid before the House an account of with He wis knew n of the w tha H t i o t u e s o e u o f ld, Commons he ktiew th in 1833 the English, Irish, and Scotch p ens i on li st, w i th the names of the parties, the date of th e grant , an d the service for or ground upon which it had b een granted. Such was the will that wish be no complied with? oug h t i t to b e comp li e d tieliBt 3 o 3 ug ; lit c , o but u could much thought that it would not. Tile Hou. Member for Merthyr Tidvil, a Member, be it observed, of an un reformed Parliament (he was anxious to distinguish be tween unreformed and reformed Parli intents), moved an inquiry into the grounds upon which a pension had been granted to a latiy—to Mrs. Arbuthnot—amounting to 900/. a year. The answer was, that the pension had not been vested in trustees for the lady for life, but during his Majesty's Royal pleasure; or, ,in the words of the grant ' 6 during our pleasure." Now, if the grants to the other ladies should be in the same terms, and on tie same grounds, then they would run somewhat thus—" Whereas, we have been pleased to grant to our trusty and well-beloved cousin" (well-beloved was a term well suited to ladies), such and such a sum per year " during our Royal will and pleasure," &c. &c. &e. Wiry certainly, those who gave pleasure bad a right to expect grants during pleasure.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But when a Committee of honest and disinterested men—disinterested save where their country was concerned—were called together, he would say that one of two things, indeed say both, must happen. All CLOS.; who were on the pension list, and who felt that they had a right to be there, would press forward with an ituZioty 10 relieve themselves from the oppwbrium of Iniog classed with the gen eral herd who now laboured under tgr stigma of having dishon estl y , nay dishonourably, been Plaaq, ' on the pension list. H e said this, because, disguigg I i as they might, they must know that the whole petisiotl list laboured under this c ensure ; that they were dr tamed by general servili t y , or b y drawing-room col! t piiances.—(A cry of " Order.") I'le Hon. Membe:ger:, might cry ‘. Order," but if he (Mr. D. W. Harvey) 01. some twenty er five -antlA m wen ty years younger, be W . • sure that he should have, fo r making this otrogrl luxurious indolence, the money dragged from the thanks of the fairest and best of those whose reptits. tions would be rescued from the charge of enjoyieg , 111 industry of the country.—(Hear.) It might be god t the charge he made cast imputations upon, an d 9/ 111 give offence to, many Noble Lords. Butte e was surent tt.- this could not be so ;on the contrary, felt convi eed that there was not a Noble Lord who was himself, or wha: had a fair relative upon that het, who would not anxiouglil silence rush for ward to rescue his own character, and much inee,, so that of his fair relative, from the imputation under which the pension list, as a general body, laboured. ..1 (Hear, hear, and a laugh.) H e f e lt t hat while mai the said t i would eagerly rush forward with trop hies in their hatgllr declaratory of their right to such pen sions, and in order toj justly their due, others, perhaps, from JAW ( ' circular glanced at some such little document as a suspicion, and obtain the praise ' which we'. a/ from the Committee, would beg to retire, Pr esent' ing their sincere acknowledgments to the count*: for having been allowed to be the recipients for the coast 54 years ague!) large sums of the public money.--(ll,e,grt Committee such as this? But, above all, and a laugh.) Surely it was not too much to expect i re "' a reformed House of Commons that they would grant much to expect that it would be granted by a reform Ad, ministration, who had shown such honourable and kindli feeling at every suggestion of reduction in our expendituroo 14:9 motion would be for such an inquiry into the pensio. list as would enable the country to see how and when easy pension was granted, and the service by which each pen: Ilion had been earned.—(Hear, hear.) His motion ought not to be resisted on the plea of the privilege of the Crovra• it 9788 not to o The Crown was only a trustee for the public, as far as tbil civil list was concerned, otherwise why allow of any core, trot at all? No doubt Ministers would bear, - from mad! Hon. Members for counties and cities, something like MI following :—" God forbid that we should charge his Sa i l jesty's Ministers with having acted wrongly upon Oil matter ; but we have b een to the markets, we 10/11 seen the hnmble fare of the people, and God knows their is nothing but bumble fare left to them; we h ave mio" sled with these—we do not mean to say the democractH the mere people, but the thinking, reading Pu bli c , and th e y ] have all seen this pension list , and say, one and all, that we will resist it, that it cannot be su ffered ;" and the"rill they (the Members) could not vote for them in c ens' quence. And then some four or five Cabinet Ali:Mall would say, " God bless us, this is very odd , very linPles. the sent ; and in order to meet the evil, we will remove ieb i list from A to Z, from one fund to another, by v/11,.f some poor souls might be shifted off." PerhaP s a concession like this might be attempted now, but this wo l l not what be wanted ; be was anxious to obtain a full ja" quiry into the whole pension list. Indeed , be did exPeeS that the Noble Lord opposite would have arisen before ga‘si and told him that he would spare him the trouble of out!: ing a statement, as he was determined to gra nt all P. asked ; but, as he had been disappointe d in all thigr be would now move for the appointment of a Select 0 ° 1 ; mittee to inquire into each grant on the pension list, ga" report the same to the House. Two or three Members rose to second the motion. , Lord ALTHORP said that, before he entered into the details of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's rriotioat_en felt it necessary to diserniarrass the question of one or Ev`i statements upon points on which the Hon. and years A hG l a r td l ae i k e m r e ' na s npwlamemorycaes mistakeno n seemed fi, me r upon failn debates.t him l3e qTuhe w es t i io h on or thate. s a p n e respect ißity earnedll wished to go not into an inquiry of the pension ltt of the whole civil list. The Hon. and Learne:l. be;, Learned 00 had stated that he (Lord Altborp) had a dm i t ted that hf„ .i s a former occasion, when he applied for a grant { h ew s wllol the pension list was included, be admitted t • . still an open question, should it be broughttbi and that no person could be committe d b y his vote aPoe.t'svoi grant, either for or against it. He admi tted that su arr 4 the fact; lie had stated to those who v oted for the g that they would not be bound by that vote, but that question of the pension list would still remain au Tot one, shuld it be brought forward beyond t his be b never go o ne, and indeed he could not hove gone 111r ,. 1 ,,vi. ° as if he had, he should have acted contrary to the P"-•,0% Membe r sions of the Act. The Hon. and Learned hal-b g gone through former debates, was now desirou s, ee° to (Lord Althorn) understood, to appoint a O'it'Tig"-- o r der, inquire into the several cases in the pension lis t, 1- oil " to see (if he rightly understood him) whether persons b improperly received pensions, and if so, .Whetber 111 :d pensions should be continued. The Honourable to, Learned Member then meant to say, that if set P be sions hcd been improperly granted, they B b °u ,'horp) I rescinded. Upon this ground he (Lord Al t bt be was ready to meet him. The pensions Wig _ toa y. granted by the Crown, hut they could not be takensa ioo to Ministers were doubtless responsible for their ad . , , t at' the Crown on such occasions, but be that a dvice l ' a t o gi_a be ; wrong, the person receiving such pension eo uld t. 5 clad deprived of it. There could be no doubt but b o a t t' beo parties who now held pensions were legally enti t : led o t r 00 The original grant ofsuch pensions might b e right _ ot tsits be wrong ; I is Majesty's present advisers couldh ensioo upon themselves to say that the payment of see Poops to o w o h g o li m t to ti b ie e y di w sp e e r n e se g d ra w n t i e t d h, re in li a e s d m u utt p h on as ti! h e o f s a e it t e a o d i m t i r l ir responsible advisers of the Crown during whe se • t ole' tration they were granted. According to e very in to cation of various Acts of Parliament, accordiegivieri the admitted rules of the responsibility of those pre of the Crown who grant pensions, his Majesleot,ioo sent Government could not in justice say then' does granted before their accession to office should he „I go/ away with. The original grant of the se .., P , e g P e !. might be right or might be wrong, and be Th li s ; nuw called upon to give an opinion upon that quest ie this he would say, that as at present advised, h e to ioo 4 ., not recommend his Sovereign to rescind these P e mette which had been so forcibly alluded to by the ikt o ion i f ber for Colche-ten—(Hear, hear.) Those 1 3- lito int , however, had been greatly reduced; and under th e edit t oo tion prescribed by Mr. Burke's Bill, a note reign t o :it 101 not only should but did take place. In t he re'g was ° P. late Majesty, when the amount of the civil list cetto ift tied, the amount of pensions was restricted wit hin OA / majesty:" oel limits ; and in the reign of his present amount was more specifically defined and Pei n , le o l o p The pension list was about 74,0001. for ' a n ', Oa 58,0001. for Ireland, 30,457/. for Scotland, and U P - g kini 4i- per cent. West India duties, about 25,0001., a a t n i d i naggregatem moofn justicesom elv somewhat ahboonuets2t honesty, h At e o : 0 / i d T a h o a t t - rh sent at i.r n, de recommendptlto advocate asdhvooucl of pensions, however, was now reduced consid ell ,,',l' a'alteb:iall r l le g yi r d eater reduction. Legal rightsr,..l::7o u other.--(Hear, a toi c ni e r e rt d .h.r a s s H o u n b, g jaer a c, s t not be lightly violated, public faith not broken V i o l, o o subject. This doctrine might not be popular oat e •` ; „ - 60! o•aler to avoid all cavil but, in or out of doors, it was unded f i n -s ar found n ur common sense and justice, and he never We e " ill that the civil lists of England, Scotland and Ircie r e "„ - 0 •9 I l l i b ela y r w i y a : e pA l3. :: o l :p td o ' o; ie be consolidated, and that the prerogative of the ''' - ga oti" . granting pensions, should not exceed '75,000/. Pete-toiali'i; for the United Empire.—(Hear, hear.) It Wit g f ire he would , admit, for the House to consider wli,tl"jostbe a small sum, or whether any sum should be ' , es te " 11/4 in Crown to grant pensions for meritorious service' q te/ 1 6 fi Id—or scientific services for the benefit of th e ve t was for the House, as he had just stated, to dew- 000' V:esubject ; but as the matter at present stood, he ir 10. 13 4 confess he could not advise the Sovereign to do et! by b ; ,ensions which had been granted to individua ls i t ; !,", predecessors in office, who were alone responsib le advice which they had given their Sovereign whee . b e p‘osions were granteii.—(Hear.) He took to „ rinciple, that under every form of Goveroangree, governing power should have the power of rewarch%ser ritoriuus persons, or persons in distress, or those r who, without any moral stain upon their c hars ( ' unhappily "fallen from their higu estate." It opinion that the governing power in every Sol have the means of rescuing men of science and from poverty or obscurity, and at all events give means of an honourable existence.—(Cries of In.ar.l He was very well aware that the penci l it now stood, would not bear out what he had dI w is as well aware as other Hon. Members that stances might be quoted against him ; but, while almays protest, and strongly protest, against allY over in granting pensions to improper persoa' improper uses, he must still say, that legal, House preferred the word, that grants made by' a upon the responsibility of his confidential advises. not be lightly sported with.—(He a r, bear.) I this, howe.er, be was far from admitting tturr persons bad not been placed upon the pension twar.) He did not mean to justify i!--he its adviser nor its advocate—(Hear, bear) . "Z imeant to say was this, that the faith of ie r`'j, , ace d ' W .. 00 ate Sh • 100 et tb 6 the 7, 4 0 p J f • ' ko' 11 , d! , 431 e io aufl ~0 be 0 rd "e . 11 , 1 1P or r eir, , Sor e v a o ; r 4, 9- t ioP iti sovr - ' ft . 7 g e a 9 to vi bb Ile Va'