The Sun. — London, England, 1827-06-08 00:00:00

creel ; but he tvaa entitled, on behalf of the landowners of Great Britain, to ask for something like protection. Lord REDESDALE was not afraid of any produce of their own that might be imported from these islawls. Lord GODERICH remarked, that if it should here after appear that the regulations now in force were not sufficient to meet the views of Parliament, he would have no objection to provide for the point. He was pretty sure, however, that it would turn out to be well provided for already. The Earl of MALMESBURY was satisfied with the assurance he had received from the Noble Viscount. Lord TEYNHAII then rose to propose a Clause, which would have the effect of protecting the agriculturist, by giving him time to recover from the ruinous effects of sudden changes in price, and excessive fluctuations in the market. The clause :provided, that "when it appeared by the returns in the London Gazette, that in any one year the quantity of wheat imported and admitted to home consumption should exceed one million quarters of wheat, or one hundred thousand sacks of flo ur ; 'all further im portation should cease, unless the average price of wheat should exceed 669." Lord GODERICH was convinced that great, if not in superable difficulty, would be found in carrying this clause into execution as a permanent measure. Lord TEYNHAM said, his only object was to impose some restraint on the possibly enormous importation that might take place. It was his opinion that the effect of this Bill would be a reduction to the extent of twenty-five millions from the Landed Interest; and the consequences of that reduction would find their way into every depart ment of the State. Lord ELLENBOROUGH considered the object of the Amendment exceedingly good, 'but the mode of it he by no means cotridercd very advisable. The Earl of MALMESBURY, referring to what had fallen from him on a former occasion, argued the feasibility of admitting foreign produce by instalments. He confessed he looked more to the quantity imported than to the price or duty. If a regulation of that nature could be devised, he would say they had at last found the right principle of the Corn Laws. His own opinion was, that it would he practicable by admitting the foreign corn in monthly in stalments so long as the average price was above a certain sum. For example, if in September the average was 66e., he would allow in October a quantity not exceeding 300,000 quarters to be entered for home consumption, and at the same rate he would go on every month until the average was below 665. This was what he might call an altera tive system. As to its practicability, he had no doubt. In that odious measure, which he could not designate by words sufficiently strong, and which gave his Majesty's Govern ment the power of admitting 500,000 quarters of foreign wheat for home consumption, the principle of this regula tion was recognised, and its practicability too. That Bill never came into operation, though it produced the most in jurious effects on the market; but if it had become opera tive, and there had been 527,000 quarters in the ware houses, Government must have selected the fixed quantity. If that course could have been practicable then, it would be equally so at any future period. Earl STA.I , 7HOPE contended that the clause was not, in any degree, contrary to the principle of the Bill. Lord ELLENBOROUGH remarked, that there was one mode in which the difficulty might be obviated, but it was a mode which no political economist would approve, though it had been adopted with advantage by several of the smaller States on the Continent, and some even'of the larger. That was, to make the State the sole depositary of• foreign corn. The necessary regulation would be, that it should be lawful for Government to buy always at a certain low price, and sell always at a certain high price, ufitil the market price was reduced below it. This mode would,obviate all the difficulties attendant on the admission of foreign corn, and it had the recommendation of having been uniformly snecesefuL wherever it bad been tried. Lord HOLLAND said, those who were connected with the land would doubtless feel much obliged to the Noble Baron (Ellenborough) for his suggestion. For his own part, he could imagine no project more subversive of their independence and interests than that suggested in so friendly a tone by the Noble Baron. If it were adopted, there would be no possibility of any body deriving his income from the land, venturing, under any circumstances, to vote against the Government,be it what it might.--(Hear, hear.)—All their chance of receiving any rent would de pend on their conduct towards the Government.' He protested-he could not understand how any Noble Lord could reconcile it to his notions of the Constitution to throw out a suggestion so directly subversive of the liber ties of the people.—( - Ilear, hear.) Lord ELLENBORPUGH .centrilaine(L, that it was ex ceedingly inconvenient for any. Noble Lord to attend toonly one half of a speech made by another, and to mistake a eygestion for a propositiOn. If the power of sale was li mited by the average price, and the time of sale also limited, Ile believed no danger could accrue to the landed interest. Without trading in corn, surely the Noble Lord (Holland) was aware, that Government bad other means of securing votes in Parliament.--(Lo u d cries of " Hear, hear," from Earl Stanhope.) The Amendment was then negatived witliout a division. The Earl of WESTMORELAND said, what he had to submit was that, at this moment, not only 600,000 quar ters of wheat at present in bond, but the whole of England, would be open to the immediate operation of this law; and his apprehension was that the Bill would produce great evil to ;he public if the admission of corn was not, in some de gree, guarded against. He thought that the agriculturisthad a right to demand, at the hands of the public, that their case should be considered, and that the Bill ought not to come Soto operation before the corn now in bond had, in some degree, been got rid of or lessened. He thought that no man, however fond he might be of the principle of ge neral trade, could assert that any trade could be fair, or could be carried on upon the principle upon which trade ought to be carried on, when there was a quan tity of the commodity in the market so large as that which was the quantity of the bonded corn. Ire, for one, thought the system of warehousing had done a deal of mis chief.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—That it was more injurious, both to the agriculturists and manufacturer, in consequence of the fluctuations it created, than almost any other thing ; ail(' that the agriculturists would make a good bargain if they got rid of warehousing on almost any terms. The proposition he wished to suggest was to endeavour, in some way, to get rid of the warehoused corn before the present Act came into operation. Upon two former occasions of alterations in the Corn Laws, this principle had been acted upon. In order to effect this object, he proposed that the Bill should act immediately, as far as related to warehoused corn, but should not come into operation, as to other corn, til} six months hence. The Noble Lord concluded with moving that, till the 16th of August, 1827, it should be lawful for the holders of warehoused wheat and other corn to enter warehoused corn for home consumption, under the provisions of this Act ; and that the provisions of this Act should not take full effect with respect to all sort of corn and grain, before the Ist of January 1828. Lord GODERICH feared that the proviso of his Noble Friend, if adopted, would be encompassed with technical difficulties. It would postpone the period for admitting corn to be imported on payment of certain duties, and so keep those duti e s g ra nt e d by tr.? Bill out of his Majesty's Exchequer during that interval. He knew his Noble Friend thought that the amendment might be easily affect ed- (Lord Westmoreland.—" No, insert it in the other Bill.") He (Lord G o d er i c h) f eare d, t h at if i nserte d i n t h e average Bill, it would be liable to the same difficulty. There certainly was a clause in the Bill, giving the power to Parliament to amend it during the present Session; but he feared that even if the proviso were adopted, it would fail to effect the purpose of his Noble Friend. With re spect to the measure of 1825, their Lordships would recol lect that they were then only dealing for once with a de. finite quantity, and were not making provision for the fu ture admission of an unlimited quantity. For these rea -- he could not bring himselt to acquiesce in the opinion son-, • advantage would result from the adopti on o f hi s that any Noble Frient, 5 proviso. The Eari a WESTMORELAND explained. The Earl o f ; ;ZALiNIESBURY hoped that his Noble Friend would turn his ;mind to this subject between this and the time when the report would be brought up, in order to devise some means, if possible, of avoiding the evil pointed out by his Noble Friend near him. The Noble Earl then objected to the present clause, which he thought ought not to have been introduced into the Bill. The Earl of LAUDERDALE complained that the word ing of the clause rendered it confused and unintelligible. Lord GODERICH was not reconcile,'. t o th e introduc tion of his Noble Friend's proposition; but he had no ob.. 3ection to consider if there was any mode of accomplishing his object. The clause vcas then agreed to. On the reciprocity clause being read, Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he recognized the hand of Mr. Jacob in this clause, and complained of the incon sistency of the President of the Board of Trade, as it had been shown in his arrangement of the details of foreigni shipping, in the proceedings on the reciprocity of dutie bill. The Noble Lord then went into a variety of state 4 =cuts, to prove the decline of interest suffered by British shipping, and the advancement of that of the nations of the Baltic. Lord GODERICH defended the clause. The Duke of WELLINGTON justified the dance. The Earl of MALMESBURY and Earl STANHOPE opposed the clause, which was agreed to. Lord TEYNHAM moved a new clause, empowering te nants, upon a year's notice, to void their leases. Lord GODERICH objected to the clause. The clause was then negatived. On the succeeding clause of the Bill, The Earl of MALMESBURY moved that the price of 625., which had been fixed as the point of remuneration, should be substituted by 665. Lord GODERICH thought that all attempts at fixing a remunerating price would fail. In the Bill of 1815 he had ventured to argue in the same way, that the 80s. which was taken for the minimum would turn out in effect to be the maximum. But he contended that 60s. now was a better price than 80s. then. The Earl of LAUDERDALE, after referring to a speech published on the corn question, read a passage, in which it was proposed to modify the duty by several gradations till the prices sunk to 555. per quarter, and the duty was then to be 305., " or, in other words," so went the speech, " a prohibitory duty." Lord Liverpool had proposed the price of 60s. as that upon which the prohibitory duty should take effect. He looked on the Bill as a juggle, therefore, and warned Noble Lords of its most dangerous tendency. It contemplated as a principle the necessity of this country depending for its supply of grain upon ether countries. From the beginning of time down to this day, there was no instance of a country doing that for a conti nuance of time with impunity. It was that which brought the Roman empire to decay. He supported the amendment. The Earl of DARNLEY was of opinion that the agri culturists ought to have a protection against the corn now in bond, and if the amendment proposed by a Noble Duke a few evenings ago went farther than this, lie thought it went too far. He therefore intended to move, when the report was brought up, by way of amendment to the proposition of the Noble Duke, " that the corn now in bond should not be brought out for home consumption till the price reached 665. ; and that all corn imported afterwards should be sub iect to the provisions of the Bill." The Marquis of BUTE said, that his impression of the speech of a Right Hon. Gentleman on this subject in another place, was, that the Bill was intended to afford a fluctuating price of between 555. and 655. From the evi dence produced before the Select Committee, his impres sion was, that the Bill would not afford a fluctuating price to any such extent. He thought that on the showing even of that Right Hon. Gentleman and of the Noble Lord opposite, it would never afford a greater price than 58s. or 595., and he should certainly support the amendment of his Noble Friend (Lord Malmesbury) by his vote. Insinuations had been made that the amendment of a Noble Duke would have the effect of throwing out the Bill altogether. If any one attempted to influence him by such a threat in the per formance of what he felt to be his duty, lie should conceive it to be a personal insult. He should give his vote un mindful of what might be the consequences. If a member of the House of Commons wished to, retire, he had nothing to do but to accept the Chiltern Hundreds, but their Lord ships could never fly from their post, and were responsible to higher powere. He would not detain their Lordships longer than to observe, that in a question of this nature, if there was a doubt, the existing interests ought to have the benefit of it. Lord REDESDALE argued at some length against the principle of the Bill. There had gone forth a voice in another place saying, that the landed interest must be put down. Such language, he would contend, was the lan guage of conspiracy : it was revolutionary; it was the language of the London Corresponding Society. Lord HOLLAND rose to order. Their Lordships must see the inconvenience which would result to the debates in that House by any allusion to what passed in the House of Commons, which could not but tend to raise disputes be tween the two Houses of Parliament. Earl STANHOPE said, that his Noble Friend had said nothing about the House of Commons. Lord HOLLAND understood the allusion to have been made to what had passed in the House of Commons, and he was quite sure that the Noble and Learned Lord would be the first to allow that any such allusion was contrary to the order of that House. Lord REDESDALE continued. He hoped at least that he should not be out of order in alluding to the London Corresponding Society. If their Lordships would refer to the documents relating to this Society, they would find, that " liberty and equality," and " no Corn Laws," were their constant cry. To the effect of "no Corn Laws" was the present measure owing; and he denounced it as a re volutionary measure, though he was-sure that his Majesty's Ministers did not mean it as such. His Majesty's Minis ters, however, bad let a cat out of a bag in one particular. In proportion as Corn was admitted, the revenue, which was now in a very declining state, would be increased. If the object of the Bill was to increase the revenue by the importation of Corn, the money thus acquired would some, not out of the pockets of the consumers, but out of the pockets of the corn-growers ; and the Bill would therefore be, in effect, a new land-tax. Another material objection to the Bill was, that it fixed a price beyond which they could not go ; which was, in point of fact, attempting to force nature; but he would tell Noble Lords that such a scheme must fail, for " the winds and the rains would laugh them to scorn, and the frosts and the snows would hold them in derision." The Earl of HARROWBY said, that the accusation that this was a measure of revolutionary tendency was misplaced : and, with respect to the expression which the Noble and Learned Lord had quoted, he would not believe that it had ever been used in the place in which the Noble Lord had supposed it to have been used, until he was told by that Noble Lord that he had heard it with his own ears ; and he refused to believe it, because he thought that a general cry of indignation would have followed the ex pression of such sentiments.—(Cheers.) —This measure was not one by which it was sought to attempt to disturb the operations of nature, but to endeavour, as far as it Le gislature could, to procure an equable supply of corn at as undeviating a price as possible. The Noble Earl, after commenting upon the existing regulations respecting the corn trade, said, that if they persisted in these regulations, he must warn them how they endangered a recurrence to a paper currency, which he conscientiously believed would be the consequence. He was not one of those who had wished to abandon so hastily the paper currency; but now that it had been done, and he recollected the distress from which the country had recovered, he could never wish that those steps of difficulty and danger should be retraced. If their Lordships thought that this was a measure full of revolu tionary principles, and that, from the experience of the nast history there were any grounds for the alarms which had been raised, their reluctance to agree to the measure would be just. For his own part, he did not think that those alarms were justified either by sober and sound rea soning, or by past experience ; and he hope() that their Lordships would not reject a measure to which the country had been for some time looking with great anxiety, and of which his Majesty's Ministers, whatever might have been their differences of opinion on other points, were unanimous in their recommendation.—(Cheers.) Earl STANHOPE said that the Bill had a fallacy, if not a fraud, on the face of it. The protecting point was stated at 601. A person, celebrated for his industry and accuracy in calculations, had shown that corn might be brought to England from five different ports at the price of 305., and the Bill therefore would net afford protection at a greater price than 545. or 555. He did not mean to enter into the point of who proposed the measure and with which of his Majesty's Ministers it originated ; but he hoped that it was not brought forward in consequence of a pledge, which was given last Session, that the subject should be taken into consideration this,—that pledge given, it must be recollected, on the eve of a general election. He should support the amendment of the Noble Lord. After a few words from the Earl of MaLSSESBURY and the Earl of H.&aaoway, the question "whether 625. should stand as part of the Bill" was put, and the contents were declared to have it. Earl STANHOPE said he should propose an amend ment to prohibit altogether the importation of foreign flour. He stated that the quantity of flour imported into Liverpool in the course of one year amounted to 545,000 barrels, and the amount lately imported in one week into the same place was 5,150 barrels. Lord REDESDALE supported the amendment. As the Bill at present stood, it gave an advantage to the foreign manufacturer—for flour was a manufacture—over the English manufacturer. Lord BEXLEY said, that the comparative duties of flour and corn hut been the subject of the minutest consi deration, and he thought the duty fixed upon had hit the lust medium. The amendment was then negatived. Earl STANHOPE moved an amendment with the view of describing what would be the practical effects of the Bill, whatever might be its professed object. He moved that the Bill be entitled, " An Act for granting duties of customs oa eorn, and for the discouragement of agriculture in this country ; and for the encouragement of agriculture in foreign countries; and for imposing a tax on the food of the people." The amendment was put, and negatived. The remaining clauses of the Bill were then agreed to, and the House resumed. Lord GODERICH said, .that in order that the amend ment which had been made a few days ago might be taken into consideration, lie should on Tuesday next move that the report of the Committee be brought up, as he thought that day would be convenient to all parties ; and he gave notice that on Friday week he should move the third read ing of the Bill. The House then adjourned at Twelve o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, THURSDAY, JUNE 7. The House proceeded to business a few minutes before Four o'Clock. TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS. Mr. Sergeant ONSLOW presented a petition from Guildford, praying for the repeal of the Corporation and Test Acts. Sir THOMAS bIOSTYN presented a similar Petition from the County of Flint. Mr. CORBETT presented similar Petitions from Shrewsbury and Dorrington. Similar Petitions were presented from Hereford, by Mr. LOCH; from Ware and two parishes in Herts, by Mr. N. CALVERT. The Hon. Member said, that the Peti tions on this subject were so numerous that he would not move for the printing, as the expellees of printing so large a number of petitions must be a great burthen to the country. Mr. Lyrurrox and Mr. HARVEY, concurred with the Hon. Member in the necessity of some controul on the ex pences arising from the printing of petitions. Sir J. GRAHAM presented petitions from the Inde pendents of Carlisle, and the Presbyterians of the same town, in favour of the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts. Sir J. GRAHAM presented a petition from the Dis senters of Cockermouth, for the repeal of the Test Act, and Catholic Emancipation. Mr. CHAPLIN presented a similar petition from Gainaborough. Similar petitions were presented from the Dissenters of Handley and Shelton, in Staffordshire, by Mr. Lyttleton; from Woodbridge, Suffolk, by Sir W. Rowley; from a Congregation in York-street, Walworth, and Farnham, by Mr. C. Pallmer ; from the Congregation of King-street, Bristol, by Mr. Bright; from Peterchurch, in Hereford, and a parish in Denbigh, by Mr. Wilke ; from Chippen ham, by Mr. Guy; from Hitchin, Herta, by Sir J. Sea bright ; from Duckswortli, Ely, Isleharn, and several other places in Cambridgeshire; from Harborough and Horncastle, by Mr. Fazakerly; from Colchester and other places in Essex, by Mr. W. Harvey ; from Ridgmount, Worcester, and several places in the county of Norfolk, by Mr. Coke; from Northampton, by Sir G. Robinson ; from Norwich, by Mr. W. Smith. PARISH OF ST. GEORGE'S, DUBLIN. Sir JOHN NEWPORT presented a petition from the inhabitants of the parish of St. George, Dublin, complain ing of the misapplication of the parish money. The peti tion stated that 57,000/. had been expended on the build ing of the church, though the greatest distress was known to exist in the district in which the church was situated. The trustees of the church claimed an exemption under an Act of Parliament from giving any account of the expense which had been incurred, and, under those circumstances, the petitioners prayed the House to order an account to be taken.—. The petition was ordered to be printed. Sir THOMAS MOSTYN presented a petition from the Coro: , ers of Flint, praying for extra allowances —Laid on the table. Sir W. ROWLEY presented a petition from Wood bridge, Suffolk, praying for protection to the wool-growers. —Laid on the table. _ Lord LOWTHER presented a petition from the Clergy of the Archdeaconry of Richmond, in the Diocese of Ches ter, against any further concession to the Roman Catholics. —Laid on the table. Lord F. OSBORNE presented a petition from the retail Brewers of Cambridge, against the existing laws: Lord BELFAST presented a petition from the Gover nor and Magistrates of the county of Antrim, respecting the Constabulary Act. Mr. HEATHCOTE presented a petition from the weavers, artizans, and inhabitants of Coventry, against the Coventry Election Bill. The Hon. Member said, that the petition was signed by 9,000 persons belonging to the labouring classes, and this he contended was a strong evi dence as to the opinion of the inhabitants on the conduct of the Magistrates of Coventry. Sir J. WROTTESLEY said, the Corporation had taken a decided part in the last Election, in favour of the masters and against the workmen. Magistrates who had taken a decided part for or against, ought not to he left as sole judges of all disputes between masters and men. A Message from the Lords, announced their Lordships assent to several Private Bills. MESSAGE FROM THE THRONE. Mr. CANNING appeared at the bar with a Message from the Throne, which was brought up and read. It was to the following effect :—. " G. R. " His Majesty, deeming it expedient to provide for any additional expenses which may arise on account of the con tinuance of his Majesty's forces in Portugal, and relying on his experience of the zeal and affection of his faithful Com mons, trusts they will make provision accordingly." Mr. CANNING observed, that this communication from the Throne referred to a subject to which he had ad verted in the statement of the Budget on Friday—the ne cessity of having a vote of credit on account of our forces in Portugal. He would therefore move, that his Majesty's gracious Message be taken into consideration in a Com mittee of Supply to-morrow.—Ordered. WESTMINSTER IMPROVEMENTS. Mr. HOBHOUSE said, he had another petition to pre sent, to which he particularly requested the attention of the Secretary to the Treasury. The petitioners who re• sided in the immediate vicinity of St. James's Park, were extremely anxious to know the nature and extent of the improvements which were intended to be made there, and they hoped that a decided answer would at once be given them on that subject. The effeet of the contemplated hn provements would be, to shut out the petitioners from all view of St. James's park, and if that supposition were cor rect, he (Mr. Hobhouse) need not :say how extremely hard it would he on the petitioners to be shut out by such changes from the view which they had heretofore enjoyed. Indeed, he (Mr. Hobhouse) was of opinion, that it was not exactly proper to encroach upon the park at all. He beg ged leave also to ask the Hon. Secretary, whether it was intended to cut down certain trees in St. James's park ; and he could not help adding, that no measure connected with those improvements was so justly complained of by the public, as that of cutting down the trees in question. He hoped that the comfort, convenience, and even the health of the citizens would not thus be sacrificed to any plan which Mr. Nash might think proper to propose for the purpose of beautifying the park. When he (Mr. H.) applied to the Treasury on the subject, Mr. Arbuthnot was kind enough to assure him that no steps would he taken by which the rights of the petitioners could be affected, without an inti mation either to his Hon. Colleague (Sir P. Burdett) or himself. While he placed the fullest reliance on this pro mise, he could not help observing, that if the House ad journed before an arrangement could be effected, it might be too late when Parliament met again to arrest the pro gress of those improvements and remedy the grievance of which the petitioners complained. An assurance had been given to the House, that no trees should be cut down on the Carlton-house side of the park, and also that whatever im provements should take place in that direction, the rights of the petitioners should not be invaded. If, however, the improvements went on without th e power t o c h ec k t h em, it was obvious that it would be a task of considerable diffi culty to repair the mis c hi e f ; an d if t h ose trees were to b e cut down according to report, he need not say that it would he no easy matter to raise th em u p aga i n . With res p ec t to the contemplated improvements in the Strand, he beg ged also to ask the Hon. Secretary what was intended to be done, and when ? In consequence of the rumoured im provements in that quarter, a great deal of mischief was oc casioned, and several of the inhabitants of the Strand were losing from 201. to 301. per week, i n consequence of th e unsettled state into which they were thrown, arising from their being unable to determine When the improvements should commence. Mr. HERRIES said, he should answer the last question of the Hon. Gentleman first. The Hon. Gentleman asked what progress was making in the improvements in the Strand. On a former occasion, when the Hon. Gentle man proposed the same question, he (Mr. Herries) an swered generally, that the Commissioners had not been idle, and that they were proceeding with due care. Such was the general answer which the Hon. Gentleman received on that occasion; but he (Mr. Herries) was now enabled to state mme paiticiilarly the progress of the Commissioners, by referring in detail to what they had done. He was enabled to state that 339 houses had been purchased, which led to a correspondence embracing no less than 1,000 let ters. He mentioned this to show the attention which must have been bestowed upon the different cases that came be fore the Commissioners, and also to account for any delay which might have occurred. It was an important fact that spoke highly to the zeal and diligence of the Commis sioners, that upwards of 75 houses had been under arbitra tion; 53 houses of that number were as yet undecided ; and the claims set up by the owners of 182 houses were now under the consideration of the Commissioners. He left the House to judge from this statement, that the business in which the Commissioners were engaged was of no small magnitude. Although he believed that many individuals had ground of complaint that their interests had se long been kept in suspense, yet, on the other hand, there might be other permits whose claims, perhaps, were not so justly founded, who would endeavour to press the Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Hobhouse) to bring the subject forward, in order to profit by any undue speed with which the purchases might be effected.—(Hear.)--The Commis sioners were doing all in their power to expedite the im provements, and they hoped that early in the ensuing spring the work of demolition would be commenced. With respect to another part of the Honourable Member's inquiry—namely, the encroachments on St. James's Park —he (Mr. Herries) was sure, that, when the plan of the intended improvements should be submitted to the House, the Honourable Member (Mr. HobliOuse) would at once perceive what little ground there was for such a rumour. The House must be aware that several improvements had' lately taken place in the Park, and he was quite sure that; in all the alterations that had taken place, nothing had been done to take away from the just rights of the public. —(Hear, hear.)—All he would now ask was, that the pre sent Commissioners should be judged by their acts ; and he felt persuaded that, in all the changes which they might think proper to sanction, they would feel a just regard for the interests of the public. With respect to St. James's Park, he had to communicate to the House that his Majesty had been graciously pleased to allow a road to be constructed in the Green Park, so as to connect an improving part of the town with the city of Westminster. --(Hear, hear.)—He had also to state that his Majesty had further been graciously pleased to intimate that the interior area in St. James's Park, where the grass now grew, and which was confined by a paling, should be thrown open to the public. (Hear, hear, hear.) When he stated that such improvements were in contemplation, he was sure that the House would at once see the spirit in which they were undertaken. With respect to another part of the Hon. Member's inquiry, it was certainly intended to build a line of houses at the bask of the Bird-cage-walk ; but he (Mr. Herries) could not see that the petitioners were at all affected by that measure. Certainly every pains had been taken not to injure their property; and so far from the intended improvements having an injurious effect, he was sure that the contrary would be the result, and that the houses in question would be benefitted rather than injured. With respect to the plan of the improvements, an order had been issued from the Treasury, that only such parts of it as no one could ob ject to should be proceeded with ; so that parties who might be dissatisfied would have ample time to forward their complaints to the proper quarter, and obtain the redress which they sought, in case their claims were founded in justice. There was one more topic to which the Hon, Gentleman alluded—namely, the trees, which he seemed to suppose it was the intention of the Commissioners to de molish. It was no part of the plan to cut down the trees in question ; and he was not aware that any such intention existed at the Treasury. Lord MILTON expressed a hope that any alterations which might be made in the park, would not be such as to interfere with the advantages enjoyed by the public in that . quarter. He did not know what was intended to be done with the site of Carlton Palace and gardens ; but he trusted that any building to be erected on them would rant be extended beyond the line of the garden wall. After a few words from Mr. HUME, Mr. HERRIES, and Mr. HOBHOUSE, the petition was brought up, read, and ordered to lie on the table. Mr. HEATHCOTE presented a petition from the Pro testant Dissenters•of Rumsey, for a repeal of the Corpora tion and Test Acts. Similar petitions were presented from the Dissecting Congregations of two places in Bedfordshire, by Mr. S. WHITBREAD. TEST AND CORPORATION ACTS. Lord J. RUSSELL said, that having to present several petitions for a repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, he felt it necessary to say a few words in explanation of the unusual course he was about to take with respect to the motion of which he had g:ven notice on that subject. He had on all occasions voted for the repeal of the laws affect ing the Roman Catholics. He had done so on the broad ground of general religious liberty. If on this principle he had voted in favour of the Catholics, whose religion, even at the present day, was mixed up by many of its pro fessors with the most objectionable and slavish doctrines, lie could not refuse to give his support to the removal of the laws affecting the Protestant Dissenters, who had, on all occasions, proved themselves the steady friends of civil and religious liberty. If he had voted in favour of the Ca tholics, who.had, in the course of the last century, been the active partisans of the House of Stuart, lie could not con sistently refuse his vote to those who had in every instance proved themselves the strenuous supporters of the House of Hanover.—(Hear, hear.).---Had he brought the question before the House, as it was his intention to have done, he trusted he should have been able to make out a good case to the House, to show why they should erase from the Sta tute Book those laws which were the dregs of that Penal Code which evinced the illiberal spirit of the times that gave it birth. Since he had given notice of a motion on this subject, a change of Government had taken place, which, it was unnecessary to add, had become the subject of much conversation in public and private. This had pro duced a considerable change in the intentions of the great body of Protestant Dissenters. It was admitted on all hands, that the present Administration were more favourable to the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts than any which existed for the 37 years during which the subject had been allowed to rest; but there were very many amongst the dissenting body who doubted the propriety of urging that me asure upon the present Government so soon after its formati o n, and who were therefore for delaying the discussion of the question until the next Session. Others of that bcdy were, however, of a different opinion (and in that opinion lie concurred), and thought the present the most favourable opportunity for the discussion of the question of repeal. He however could not act of his own mere will, but felt it necessary to consult those who took a lead in the affairs of the Protestant Dissenters, and amongst others, of his Hon. Friend the Member for Norwich (Mr. W. Smith), who by common consent was admitted to be the organ of that body. On consideration of the question amongst themselves, it did appear that the majority were in favour of postponing the discussion of the question for the present, and a request was made to him (Lord J. Russell) not to bring it foi ward. With that request he found it necessary to comply. He was aware that by the course he was pursuing, he had placed himself in the unpleasant situation of one having the appearance of acting with a view to party interests; but he should be ashamed of himself if to avoid a personal imputation, he consented to a course which would be in jurious to that cause of which he was the conscientious advocate.—(Hear, hear.)—ln discharging a duty to those most interested, be could not therefore bring forward the motion this season. It was, however, the inten tion of the whole body, that the subject should be brought forward early in the next Session, and if then unsuccessful, to he continued on from year to year. He would observe with respect to the petitions in favour of the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, that on the present occasion they were numerous beyond precedent.— There was, however, a difference between some of the pe titions from others. They all concurred in praying for the repeal of those acts, but some of them prayed also for a re peal of religious disabilities of every kind. He had had to present many of that description, and from his knowledge of the parties, he believed that the most enlightened of that body viewed every kind of civil disabilities on account of religion amounting to persecution. Amongst the petitions which he had now to present, was one signed by clergymen and other members of the Church of England, calling themselves the friends of religious liberty, who stated that they valued the repeal of those Test Acts only as one step i gßi headsoua r s o liberty. Roman 13Taynhoetricleearttvhaos Catholic highlys o one Establish_ respecta ble n t o peti tionewn membersat towards signed a e 1r of a yf l ttrhhe Catholicael t communion. They prayed for a re peal of the Test and Corporation Acts. What he (Lord J. Russell) was anxious to see, was a co-operation of all par hose disgraceful acts. When they should i accomplished this;—that religion should no t par ties longerutlod have bpue consideredtan d to qualification for office,---they would have achieved a triumph important not only to England but to the world in general. By such means they would strengthen the State, give stability to the Church, and pu rify religion itself.—(Hoar, hear, hear.)—He would con clude by moving the petition he held in his hand be brought up. Mr. W. SMITH said, it would be unfair of any parties connected with the Protestant Dissenters, if they refused to thank the Noble Lord for his general advocacy of their cause, and for the part be had acted on the' present occa sion. The Hon. Member then proceeded to show, that it was a gross fallacy to suppose that the grievances of the Protestant Dissenters were only theoretical. Was it not a practical grievance, that a Dissenter could not be a mem ber of Oxford without declaring his assent to the 39 arti cles ?—that he could not take his seat as a magistrate, without the sacramental test, if any person chose to insist on it ? (and this was done in some counties, and might be done in all) He trusted that the justice of Parliament would soon put an end to those practical disabilities. Mr. J. WOOD expressed himself favourable to the repeal of the Test and Corporation Acts, and contended that their existence were practical grievances to the Dissenters. General GASGOYNE hoped that the question would be brought forward early next session, though lie could not see why it was not brought on at present. From what fell recently from an Hon. Member, it appeared as if there was a kind of compromise, and that the question of the Catho• lies was not to be brought forward without that of• the Dissenters.—(Cries of " No, no.")----He should protest against any such course. Mr. CURTEIS wished to ask the Noble Lord whether he intended to mix up the two questions ? if they were united, it would be doing a serious injury to the cause of the Dissenters. Lord J. RUSSELL was not aware of the usolu!: , -41 of the Protestant Dissenters (as we understood) until last Wednesday. He denied any intention of compromise in the course he pursued. In answer to the Hon. Member (Mr. Curteis) he begged to say, that there was no intention of uniting the questions of Catholic emancipation and that of the repeal of the Test Acts. He would bring on the latter motion as a separate question. The petitions were then read. They were from several congregations of Protestant Dissenters ; one from some Protestant Clergymen and other members of the Church of England ; and one from several Roman Catholics, praying for a repeal of the Test Acts. Ordered to lie on the table. TURNPIKE BILLS. Mr. LITTLETON, after pointing out the great expense to which parties were put in. carrying Turnpike Bills through the House, moved the following resolution : " That all Bills and other matters containing petitions for the repeal or renewal of any act or acts of Parliament rela tive to Turnpike Roads, be exempted from all fees and Par liamental y charges altogether." Mr. HUME thought that the fees demanded by both Houses of Parliament on proceedings which came before them ought to undergo revision.-- He concluded by recom. mending his Hon. Friend to postpone the consideration of his resolution to the next Session, at which time the whole system of Parliamentiary fees might be submitted to a complete investigation. Mr. CANNING did not think it right that all at once the expenies of passing Turnpike Bills through the Muse should be shifted from the shoulders of private individuals to those of the public. He was not inclined to oppose the introduction of this resolution, but he wished not to be understood as pledging himself to agree to it. He sug gested the adjournment of the debate to another day. After a desultory conversation on the subject, in which Sir J. NwHoLL, Sir C. COLA, Mr. BENNETT, and Mr. MA SEALY joined, Mr. LITTLETON agreed to postpone the further con sideration of this resolution to Friday the 15th inst. ALLEGED CIRCULAR OF THE BANK OF ENGLAND. Sir JOHN WROTTESLEY said, that in rising in pur suance of the notice of motion which he had given, the House would perhaps think that he ought to have been sa tisfied with the unequivocal denial which an Hon. Gentle man, who was a Director of the Bank of England, had given to the authenticity of a very important letter which had recently appeared in the public newspapers, and which purported to come from that' distinguished body. If he had had any other reason, save the declaration of the Hon. Director, to believe that the letter to which he alluded was a spurious production, he should have abandoned his present motion ; but there was, unfortunately, a connec tion between that letter and other events which led him to conjecture, that though that letter was not the result of any consultations of the whole body of Bank Directors, it was still written and circulated with their knowledge by one of their number. To say positively that this was the fact, he was not altogether prepared ; but he had little doubt in his own mind that the letter had origi nated from some gentleman in the direction, who having been employed to inspect the branch banks in the country, had shown it to several persons in his travels, and that it had thus, rather unexpectedly, found its way before its due time to the public. Under the present circum stances of the country, he hoped that the House would he 'prevailed upon to examine closely into the motives which had produced that letter, for he could not con ceive that at a time when there was every hope of a progressive amelioration in the prospects of the industrious classes a more mischievous event could have happened than the publication of a letter, which tended to cast discredit upon a class of persons on whom the manufacturing opera tives must depend for the advance of those wages which the promising condition of trade would soon enable them to earn. One of his reasons for bringing forward his mo tion was, that the extraordinary conduct of the Bank of England was not confined to the production of this solitary letter. There appeared in their proceedings a rooted deli beration to keep up a circulation of their notes equal to that which prevailed during the war. It had been difficult— nay, almost impossible, for thens to accomplish that object; but, because they could not keep up their circulation to its former extent, and because they could no longer realize the large profits which they formerly enjoyed, it was not justi fiable in them to attempt to bring into disrepute other esta blishments similar to their own, and to build their own credit upon the ruin of that of their competitors. In the course of last Session lie had endeavoured to bring the condition of country bankers under the notice of the House ; but at that time such irritation prevailed through out the country respecting them, that they had no chance of meeting that fair play from the House to which they were entitled, and which every other interest enjoyed. The attack made upon the country bankers last year was founded on the power which 'they possessed to issue and circulate 11. notes. In order to show the House how unfounded that attack was, he thought it right to state the grounds on which those notes were first intro duced into the circulation of the country. The country bankers had certainly no right to expect that any such in dulgence would be extended to them. Previously to the Bank Restriction Act in 1797, they issued nothing but 51. notes. It was not in consequence of any solicitation on their part, but in consequence of the misconduct of the Bank of England at that time with respect to the amount of its issues, that the country bankers were allowed to issue 1/. notes. Temporary Acts were passed from time to time to continue to the country banks the privilege thus obtained ; and for this reason, that the Bank of England continued to issue similar notes, and there was no other cur rency. At the end of the war the country Bankers natu rally expected to be called upon to pay their IL notes in cash. The House, however, continued the Bank Restric tion Act for some years after the termination of the war. The country bankers were at that time prepared to meet their 1/. notes by payments in cash, and had no wish to continue them in circulation beyond the period allotted to the Bank of England. If they had any difficulty upon the point, it was completely removed by the Bill which the late Marquis of Londonderry carried through Parliament in the Session of 1822. In the course of that Session, the House agreed to many whole some and salutary laws. In consequence of the agricul tural distress which then pervaded the country, many peti tions were presented to Parliament ; and it was found ne cessary to reduce our establishments, and take other mea sures of a similar nature, to give relief to the suffering agriculturists. If Hon. Gentlemen would take the trouble to refer back to the speech which the late Marquis of Lon donderry made in May, 1922, they would find that one of the modes of relief suggested for the agricultural distress was the continuance to country banks for ten years longer, of the permission to issue 1/. notes. Now, if the country bankers were prepared to give up the circulation of their I/. notes at the close of the war, and were then permitted to carry it on for three years longer, and were then again at the end of that time led to believe, by the sanction which the House gave to the proposal, that they should be permitted to issue their 1/. notes for ten years longer, was it either fair or just to call upon them on a sudden to give up that which had not been solicited by, but offered to them, and to give it up at a tints when considerable irritation was excited against them, and when doubts prevailed as to their solvency? There was another very strong reason why he wished the House to look with attention to this part of the subject. On the first day of the session of 1826, the Mi nisters proposed to abolish the circulation of 1/. notes. They never deigned to make any inquiries into the manner in which it was carried on, and in which it operated upon the various classes of the community. They carried their proposition...such were the prejudices of the House against the system—by the largest majority W ll4 was • ever known upon any question. What, hoWn was the course which they pursued with respect to Seur_, land ? As soon as the determination of the Governor' was known in that country, the table of the Houss-1 loaded with petitions from it against the measure whi, : i they proposed. A Committee was appointed to exitan.:j into the allegations of the petitioners. The petitioners a fair hearing; and subsequently to it no proceedings ty P7 taken—a circumstance from which he inferred that the; had made out a case, which prevailed on the House Ho lt ! alter the system of banking which then existed in Scotian Now, if such an inquiry was granted to the bankers '" f Scotland, it was rather a hard case upon the banken l Z England that no such inquiry was granted to them. , ° 0 would venture to say, that if any gentleman wishe d ' know the system of banking in England, he had onit to look to the evidence given by the Scotch bankers, id o l change the word Scotland for England wherever he f°. it. There was, however, a strong exception in favour the English bankers ; their systerh was much more cauti °l9 ; than that of their Scottish rivals ; th e y never dared to s l a ti , vance so far as the bankers of Scotland.—(Hear.)--- 11 1 regard to this particular letter, he w ou ld on ly observe trt; if the Bank of England had confined itself to p r oposiag ob ; the country banks to take its notes, he could have no ,j jection to make to such conduct. Even if the letter PPT, been private, no one would have bad a right to interfere%'-a The reason why he complained of it was, that it ten °7l to throw great and undeserved discredit on the coupri banks. The proposal contained in the letter was fours upon certain doubts which it appeared to entertain of tti solidity and credit. Now, as twelve months had ear; since the existence of the panic, during which time n o t surmise had been made to the discredit of the 600 cou nt ; banks which existed at present, it was most unfair and for justifiable in the Bank of England to scatter doubts in public mind as to the solvency of such establisln en 9 There were two or three extracts from that letter whic h would take the liberty of reading to the House. It as follows Assuming it to be desirable to retaia reo paper-money currency convertible on demand, the g question for consideration is, how that paper money ca u l* so regulated as to afford the greatest security for recelfre both as regards the solidity of the issues and the Pr 4 , is be obtaining coin for the same on demand." Now, i""'" ed the real object to be attained in a raper currency, the House to consider narrowly the transactions of t Bank of England itself, inasmuch as the great mass of r i r hair which is now in the country originated from that The circular then proceeds :—" In order to obtain thE objects, it is necessary, in the first instance, to free paper-money as far as may be possible from the etteE, of what has been termed panic." It therefore r o t came necessary to consider what was the catge that panic. The first intimation which led to proceeded from the President of the Board of T r i g ; who gave a caution to the Bank of England as to 4 , way in which it was then going on with respect t° issues. The Bank then being in possession of ane quantity of Exchequer Bills, felt themselves obligea bring them into the market, which, being an no n6 o . thing, caused considerable dismay amongst monied pD This he looked upon to have been the origin of the pall o , One or two private banking-houses failed in the fleet ti stance, which spread the alarm ; and, consequently, eve r person who had placed his money in bankers' hands bibs it behov o tened to call it in, and thereby a run was created on to Bank of England. It was, he believed, in referenced that event that the letter from the Bank of England,_ been published. Before the holydays he had taken tu e ,,, berty to caution a Noble Lord, then Chancellor of th e e , , it chequer, of the danger of increasing the unfunded he warned him, that, on the first moment of alarm o' l _, should arise), the Government would be called on fill; ment of its securities. He did not mean to say that, a forming the financial plan of the year, it would be w re to resort to an issue of Exchequer Bills. On the coat 'r he thought it might be very useful to adopt such a P ceeding ; but what he objected to might be mere proPelble called a permanent increase of the unfunded debt. l a the last financial statement which the late Chancellor 0 ' b ig Exchequer made to the House, he seemed to enter into „ a (Sir John Wrottesley's) views on this subject, ,a n - d expressed a wish that a portion of the Sinking f ti so , should be made available for the reduction of th e funded debt. He (Sir John Wrottesley) regr.ti, that circumstances should have occurred to induce kid Government to augment the unfunded debt. S ° be es the Bank continued to be a larger holder of Elc be quer bills, the currency must, in case of any panic' re m bs in an insecure state. He might be asked what w , i ; remedy he proposed ? He would answer " IC °°e ' out had these no s y st hintsem o f f ot his h the consideration to advo c t t o e ,f others.bu t The P. posed issue of Exchequer bills, although he regretted t he was after all only a temporary measure, and circumstances in which Government was placed was Y" / haps the best that could be resorted to. He was orri s ; 1 5 prehensive that some of those untoward events (whi all human calculations at defiance) might arise, Wy i t b e would cause a sudden and inconvenient demand fo r ' O l payment of the Government securities. He was deeds of seeing the Bank free itself from all the trarnl l oo - , which it was at present placed with regard to the Gl e e tnent. He would have it recur to the principle whicn_ m t verned its proceedings in 1797, a declaration of which lias who heard him carried in their pockets, in these P words—" I promise to pay on demand," so and sni s d The Bank must know the quantity of notes which- i t n iaa -out, and ought to keep in its hands a sufficiency of b i l it iet merely dir er to satisfy the demands which might be made on a n ‘ - bst of those notes. If the Bank would confine itself 0 3 be plain line of conduct, he ventured t o sa y th a t it w° ol The infinitely more respected than it was at present. . Bank had become so intimately connec t e d w ith 0°!,,, „ merit, that it was now no longe r sa ti s fi e d wit li, fter ducting its own affairs, but h a d a grea t itching at managing those of other persons. So long ! e y ed Bank confined itself to its own affairs, it was all ;fit well ; but when it travelled out of its sphere toet the affairs of other people, it seldom exhibited a w es degree of enlightenment. He was desirous that ,;,0 measure should be adopted by th e H ouse w hich w" 10 , restore confidence to those persons who, he knew by w eer inunications which lie had received from various (it 0 0 had taken great alarm at the paper put forth "l a , to Bank. I n hi s opi n i on , it w ou ld b e e xt reme ly un‘g l ' o , - iii stop the circulation of country bank paper, which A vi o nief most instances the representative of houses, land, an";,e o valuable and available property. That, he kneWr t ech sentiment in which most country gentlemen particle' the —lt was well known that the Bank already possessea9 power (which it had exercised on several occasions w d o p the last 10 or 12 years), by its operations on the cll 9 of of diminishing or augmenting the value of propertY, s baa SO per cent. He knew many instances of persons les t t oo purchased estates being completely ruined by an a lte t lkea of the currency. If these mischievous eff ec ts bad r ot place whilst the Bank of England paper formed o nl cbs t of the circulation of the country, be asked the Hou se vet° evils might not be anticipated, if the whole circulatiel.aar placed under its controul ? The iropei ty of the gra rists and manufacturers would thus be placed entirelyeato mercy of the twenty-four Bank Directors whenever it W ar , please them to contract or extend their issues. It ape s ed to him, that there existed a determination on the e r,:r, of the Bank to get rid of all competitors. He, he sf ,.b $ acquitted the Government of all paiileipation in 811-fot scheme. He would take this opportunity of saying gl or y words with respect to the recent change in the o° o o ment. His Majesty could not have appointed any Pf a feel °" to be his Cabinet Ministers, towards whom he co ld o d more regard than to the persons who now held to° - fives. He represented a large manufacturing coun t Y' ore in giving his support to the Administration, he wm/0.'...• lie should be acting up to the wishes of his con stitue n t ‘ ,/t The Hon. Baronet concluded with moving, the 00, Select Committee be appointed to inquire whether yOf ve rnor and Company of th e B an k o f E ng land, or 91 ;0' the Directors of that Bank, have circulated a letteT/ circa' ing to cast doubts on the solidity a private baiiikrAtie lating paper, and th ere by i n j ur i ng th e commercial an 9 nuf M acturing interests of the country." loar r. PEARSE addressed the H o use, but in so fol, tone as to be scarcely audible. We understood him l ion that the a u th or o f the l e tt er or paper to which t 13s0 1 ‘1. Baronet's observations referred was a Director of the , Be was certain that individual would be extremely 9 . " i 9 pr e any mischief had resulted from the publication oii per. A more honest or well-intentioned person ' 1 ; tlf individual in question did not exist. With re s P ect plan itself, when its author asked his (Mr. Pears e , 0 0.! nion of it; he told him lie thought it a very fo oli T4, (A laugh.)—The manner in which the plan got !l e a the culation was this—the person who drew it UP 7,tilelt opinions of some confidential friends respecting: vet it answered, that they could not pronounce judgmen; so reli• till they had had an opportunity of considering it te_ r to tie He therefore caused about twelve copies of his paP e t i e ,ol ol made, for the purpose of giving it to his part colic .I ttroa l ; and one of these copies found its way into a publ . eel,. 1 , 1 : f t r h o e m H t o h u e s e Directors, that i t t ties, hear. )_The Hon. Member had charged the t n to s being desirous of accumulating profits witbou r take He con. , • the means resorted to for that purpose. to , vir heel , a c fer upon himself to say that the Bank' hail ne ic H submitted in any shape whatever.l:-ik wi th biya edcuneuhvlencouragement aBselfishb su e n r e feeling. Upon this point he Wiwi.