The Sun. — London, England, 1831-04-22 00:00:00

IMPERIAL ,PAP_IJAMENT ROUSE or , TO The LORD CW.INTC P MS, A rnir, • • fi titi,•o 1 t 1. 7 a vat Mg' lions VA U the county of Denbigl:and from ntcdtwo similar petitions froi:-ti 1‘13'0); o ,, sente4l )f . Flint. a similar petition to t. f r.vi a. of w'ci4 f the pc I it ...,..-~ 1 t;.11 th 11 ;I he 1\ Id eit,et =ram in N T • GIZO OW LI thu'ecf w would c t TO, 2, f Pa dly br . ected 1 tny n eliUre caicui,lttd to inele.le ti,at power. fie conY lot con:A fr , ri th politic)l vied ( n in .I:'an 1 un,lf.r irfi , te tl , e Trollie(n Ca ~... 60t F 1 ,4 gre ter poiitiei; tilt' el v - C:i r ; tv;tll n ~'( tine or p ,, t tunity IlE' li4i':l' n ;iff deil r powt, t. ver t s}jts ,re tt .y t perary a'd L The .:3 tl,f. it v. as net hi, intention arj,l over yitin the C'Atholin que;tion. Ht jerev<d.ilac - 11 ::. , J•:uced had been productive t.l ,dvantiq-,, , -; to Irdai - :,". At least, 01 . '3 rolvawfigel3a , d frnm it—th,rr,! tray noT, he I;A:eyed, no tl,e .3f Parliameni t.r t: e ecßio try, Sts the rz , .... , -s•ity of ti thion. H e f la ,l not giv,n politinl power to the Born;; s. Tiley pos,t.s.{ , (l it. All the Bill (1 .s of rc Catholics t tical p,wer, ;11(1 to take it nut ci the hand •,o on, wishenl ^C±in po,,vssion of it, t!•, loroon Cob, Cergv. Lon? ELLENiI()P.OUGH ?-:re foll clerlit to ;le Noble -7,1.1 toil to "..C,tl. . Nob!? 1.• h:d the G.- fmbrar,:iee in not revivir o di,e.:l,gie) in that • The Ncble Earl was i , l be t0 ,, 1:7 of ri l p Tlefori iroving of all the rest of the Bills, it E:rl • it, from stating 1: r t►e T(CU t 5 f ~::. i:~ Li 31 , 21 T ;e t reiin 4-6 • • rcf ' Goverr- 1 , j s'r' i -'r-ea' . „ ' • ' -o t'y t 1 ~.. r t her ,Louldr,,nunit a hren rnr! r:vate con ', no!, and fot•ii it 14 liwn boil: - def. ~,c‘,C of those ho bad then acted with him upon the faith of this corn t tat , chi-v of I ided at the t with s!ri,q fid, 11 t ~;ili~ cOnstituerleV rre thrre the Bill tv..ts t,, , co:.Ary began to sospfrt-et lin:11A in thi_pitit. ia.Ge line of ...p , ,pulaticia hat ri)r Oly pprpo , e of . ;, , ,,tqn,s.•rid of s.orae _ . n SO:113 ra.knil and tt. SO , :.;1-p,ur.ders should be I:is.franehised, dud th: right of representation given to thUse which di:I? This Ite rdmit'ed woxid have been u more !;.teeepng Le cou:dhavect ristnte , l to, but tvotAl I:ave on such a Li tactiCe in it:olf, and could I. s to be pro. 'Erre were not (ECG NoLie I —(llear; t' Li i for lave ? : ; u rs, r: n: i.i 1. t ~t, 7' , IS, or a trlitoi's Pe did n-t p(irti F•a'l ,thcr ; of CAN heari;, yen, it o ab ;icat, VERY petitiJns of S cf DOR presented a similui petition ELAND). -LIRE Sudety ted petitions in ad for the conti.' _ . 1 1 5 .ariiSmcntitry grants to tlicA body. a. Jolto, Tgo, and several-places in nted Tytitions ti the sameeffeet ndFre S < of I NOlll , i pre the r by t fri i end t is 'e true, ~, Lord eNv, `e Fc~r, F iin fr ce Ccr as w "trt, ~i. , ~~;;,1~ ~. 11 p . o'.;Ver.i;;4l l .L , by I IV gtlC'.•`. iuus the propriety !)::s prcr This I r G. CLEF `,.• It in a T3ll inotion 5 1130,1•1 4,1 r,.l„d a fp. , ,t limn, apei to he p 1N mu • OF(ter I)ay td l tn, I.etillart of - I\lr. Liar•on,.. lie had • rtrollected Oa; eon • 1. t) ;).t..vc.t nece,bity of its being again read. A n ore proper petition it had nev.2r fallen to his lot to present under similar. circumstances. • After :the understanding, or something very analogous, which ltad been come to last night, - .be •did not apprehend any great difficulty would occur in agreeinz to his motion the elle petitioner be reprimanded and discharged. rH hoped tite:r Lords.hips would.niat atotc.their - minds to be pretu tiitted by the demur of the - petitioner to answer the question put to him. He hoped they would not think him coritu macious on this account, for it was one of the resultswhich - they eould - norbrat-have foreseen • when they resolved upon going into this matter. The question lo which he alluded to who wt., the author . of the article, was one -which- a Court of Justice would not ank of-a defendan-. The Attorney-General or Counsel might ask such a cpes tiott of a witness, hut the Court could not ask it of the party himself implicated. . To inflict a severe punishment on that account would be to emulate the impFoper, cm , trutt of a Judge who changed a Fentence of seven years transportation to one of fturteen years, in consequence of a remark made by the prisoner. 'Their Lordships would have despised the petitioner if he had answered the question. He moved that Mr. Lawson be calle I to tl , e bar, repri manded, and iischarged upon payment of his fees. The. Earl of MANSFIELD moved that stt angers should be ordered to withdraw. - _ . _ The Marquis of *LONDONDERRY hoped that as strangers wile allowed to be present yesterday, they would not be exeloded upon this occasion. The Earl of 'ELDON made an observation which was inaudible below the bar. • - _ . • • _ The LORD CHANCELLOR, in reply to the Noble Earl's observation, - said that if his Noble and Learned Friend's statement were true, he (the Load Chancellor) should he exceedingly glad to avail himself of it ; for his Noble Friend Vil9 well aware that whatever advantages might he atr::clied to the. possession of the Gieat Seal, the nrcesity of constantly sitting on •the Woolsack was not on , of them. _ S..rargerti were then excluded. After an aipeno e o f two hcms and a half, from twenty minutes to seven to nine o'clock, we were re-admitted. THE REPRIMAND. Mr. Lawson was then. called to the bar, and repri manded by the Conn CHANCELLOR in the Mowing terms: " Jahn Josoph Lawson, the publicition of which you have confessed yourself to he the printer and puldishe-, has been pronounced by the unanimous vote of theirLerd ships to be a gross and scandalous lib,l upon Edmund IlenrY Earl Limerick, a Member of this House, and ahio'a high breirch of the privileges of the House itself. The privileges of this Hoise have b;en conferrinrupon it by the Constitut:qn of the country, and recognised most amply in ail times by the law of the land ; and they are p,:sscsse,4 by tiiis House nut for the ben-fit hf individual Members, rot for the aggrandisement and power of the Alembtls collectively, but for the protection and defence ,of this Assembly in the discharge of those high func tions; which, for the benefit of the State, the Constitu tion has conferred upon it. It would be a strange thing, indeed, if the privileges which are possessed not only by the other and infe,ior branch of the L'gislaturr, hot by every Ctiurt of the r: alm, should be denied by the Constitution, either by pol:cy or justice, to this illus trice assembly, which contains within itself the highest functions o f judicature and the highest legislative powers, he fore:tinn, of counselling the Crown, enacting laws of he realm,- and of deciding; isl the last resort, without v eal, all causes, civil as well as criminal. Those high those great duties, and those large powers, are this a ssembly; and in order thrt it may exer them, and that the country rosy through them, de bezielit which it was intended it shon1:1, it is ne that the privileges of this Hone should remain un and entire. - No man who has read thescanda h } - ou have pu:)lishrd avd priotkl can doubt f the unanimous j0,12m , --nt which this House It is thCrefore nAtesstry that the House should deal with you r.s so grave an offccee demands, to the - end that you may be deterred by punishment from a r, petit:on of the t &nee; arid for the se and reason which is the end of all punishment, that others may be deterred also. But the House is wiling to temper justice with mr:ey, and it has Lken into consideration the mitigating circumstances of your ease: You have freely confessed your guilt, not only as to the fact ofynur being the printer, but that you are guilty in point of law a 9 well as _substance, beeause you' have expressed, your sorrow for the offence. You have Made an apol-yy which has been taken into con si imation by this House, as well as the close imprisonment you have stiff, red by the authority of the House. For these reasons, anti from a tlesire to temper justice with mercy, theie Lordships have thought fit to direct me to execute tilt 1:1,1:inf0 duty which I am now-discharging by directing me- to reprimand you, and that you -he forthwith disch ,rged ont ~f custody upon payment of the fees." Mr. LaW, , On then bowed and retired•with the officer. it was thrn ordered that the reprimand should be en, tcrd upon the. journal R. . -., CIVIL LIST. Lord - WFIAIINCLIFFE called the attention of their LordshiliS to, an omission which had occurred with regard to this Bill. It was the understood practice of the Con stitution that any interference by Parliament with the he reditary revenues of . the Crown should receive the specific consent of his M..jesty in the first instance. The Bill ;which they had passed was not that to which - his Majesty .had.given inch , consent,, because a new Xdministration had intervened, end the arrangement to which they had given effect' was (Efferent from . that which had been brought forward by their predecessors. He did not know bether the final censent of his Majesty At;ould remedy .:.; defect; Lilt even if it-did, tbry would still be under t • • .::catty that tri,ny Peers had voted under -the impres • . ,u: :h consent had ben. previously given. .He •. . .: • i .; 'ow what ceurse bis.Mojesty's Ministers would iti difficulty. • The Duke of 111:CHMOND regretted that the Noble Lord had not given notice of his intention to put his goes- , the other illinistas of the Clown hart hft the and he (lid pot feel hiinself competent to give an on so important a subject without. consideration. Lola WHARisICLIFFE said he would bring the subject f.rwaid to -mw row: It appeared to him that a gross mis t:lee had bean committed. The Duke of WELLINGTON- obsetved that there was no d:o an unfortunate: mistake had been committed. The Civil List Bill had made a complete alteration in the Government - of toe country; end his Majesty's assent ought to have been given, according to .all precedent, and according toll:re sdirit of the Constitution. Soule notice at oil events of this omission ought to be noticed on their jilt mils. • • The LORD .CHANCELLOR.thought it material that tie oversight should be rectified on their journds. If he answerable for'it; it was through inadvertency and.a want of knowledge of the peculiarities of their Lordships' !..ractice. In Ow other House the petition relatiez to the revenues ot the Crown requited-the as,ent of . the Crown, • but no'.-if it were introduced by a Minister ;it was then taken 'for granted. After a few words fioin Lord BEXLEY, it was ordered that the ,-ntry 111)( n their Lordship' journals of the month of iolay, lE.o,.re.latio,!_ - ;•to the Hereditary Ilevemies of the Crown, rho , ,ild be taken into consideration to-morrow. Tile LOUD CHANCELLOR -presented eighteen tions in favour t:f Pariiarnentary Reform, . front Halifax, l',rth, and various other places, making seventy petitions in all whicii thc• Ndile and Learned Lord Lad presented on thi:t day, Several B:lk were forwarded a stage, and the House aJjourned at liaif-past Nine till to'-inorrow. HOUSE OF C0.11310.21 7 5,ErL 21. On aiseount of there being a .baliot t n the'Knaresbu r-u'gih election petition; the gallery wio no; open till.tive t.'clock. The body of ti:e house and side galltries were crowdol with rtleinheri, and when the doors tt ere open rl:e insh of strangers was as great, if 11(4 greater, than we c;er witnesix(l Qn any former occasion. MESSAGE FROM THE LORDS. Mr. Justice Pirrisort ,:nd Mr. Justice ALDERSON.arI•• nottr.ced that the House of Lords had agreed to the Civil List 13i . 1 ,vitliont amendment. . . Mr. GUEST • postponcd , his motion which stood for ::„ht diy se'nni - ght. Nit.. Alilerm:in -WOOD postponed his motion which 3d f. r to-night as he expected a dissolution would riy take p!::ce..l—(llear, bear.) ITONVER'S DIVORCE BILL. «•c^t til:ou7h . .. - Mr. II UM F. would tai,e that oppoitunity of atikti.og tiot h -imp,d if a Reformed PArliameat was al:cut to ta4e place, the Reform would extend to CAbeil as that last , A more complete farce never was acted, lictile on the' hear.) .- . kfror solianinbservatious f;•otri Lord F..osuoiticE the report of the Cozianitt!.,e was ordere'i 111;:', I'lo in,titu- --( lie iye ircalycd tc-morrow. tiOROUGH OF LIVERPOOL. Mr. P.ENLTI said lit: hal to 'st;h:oit a motion t ., the House re-pectin:; the corrupt state of the borougii. ;f Lit - r.!rp af, prol he thought it was only necess:aT for him o refa to tise evideure to sr . ‘"iiyort that rcsolstioO. After it had hero wi-iplp' l , it was his intention to bring hr a lilt 1. - o'f...ineittl the repre. , :entation. of Litrerpool,,L7(llctu-, Leal.) The corruption that town was of the • inq.4 glaring cha7 raettr, and he helreved it priheipally existed in:tite c,latist,s. The corruption, however, hail reactiod that height that it was necessary something should he done for the honour of the town, and for the honour of Parliament. Something must he done to prevent an occurrence of a si Jar nature. He, however, should now merely move t' e resolution, and if it was carried, he should then move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the representation of the borongh of Liverpool. The Hon. Member LI en read the " resolution, which vt as as fellows :—" That it is the opinion of this House the system of bribery and corruption in the election of Me-nber. of Parliament fur Liverpool demands the atten tion of this House." General GASCOYNE utterly denied the charge of cor ruption. if ever there was a spot in the world free from it, it was Liverpool.—(Loud laughter.) It would be well , if the Hon. Meorher, before he censured the borough of Liverpool, would look into the county of Wilts, and see' if there uas not a representative of that county who had tnorteaged his esoares.—(Loud cries of " Order.") The SPEAKER was sure such expressions must have escaped unintentionally from the lips of the Hon. and . Gallatat MeMber. General GASCOYNE bad not meant to apply the re mask to any particular Member. If there was an Hon. Member in that House who represented a popular place, and could lay his hand upon his heart and say he had never bought a vote, he was that man.—( Hear, hear.) He hail represented the borough of Liverpool for thirty hive years, and he had, so help him God, never upon any occasions been guilty of any kind of corruption.—(Hear.) He had been returned for Liverpool without even entreaty or asking on his part ; and he had received evidences be yond number of the satisfaction which his constituents felt in the connection. He had received more pieces of plate as presents from Liverpool, in consequence of his conduct as a Member of that House, than he liked to boast of, and he had been thanked by the votes of his constituency a great many titres. He contended that the boroughs of Liverpool was not corrupt, and there were many Hon. Members of that House, who had been the friends of the late Mr.: Canning and Mr. HuskisSon, who, while those Statesmen were living, would have supported the same view, however they might conduct themselves upon this 0cca5i0n......... (Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Wiltshire had no just ground for his resolution. There was but one witness who had given'evidence before the Committee, even to his belief of bribery having been practised for a number of years,, and at different elections for Liverpool. This was the amount of the evidence upon which the House was called to agree to the resolution before it. Why, such a proceeding was worse than the Reform Bill.—(Hear, hear, hear, and laughter ) The party by whom he had been returned to that House for so many years had taken no part in the late electron ; they did not subscribe one shilling towards, and had nothing to do with it. Every one who knew any thing of him knew that be was a younger brother ; and from that circumstance, even if he .had the will, he had not the means to practice frequent and gross corruption. '1 he charge contained in the resolution was utterly unfourchal. He did not speak of the late elec tion.—.((tear, hear. )—Of that he knew nothing ; but he .spoke of the general system pursued at elections at Liver pool, and doing so he positively affirmed that there was no foundation fur the resolution.—(Hear, hear.)—He de clared before Heaven that his elections had never cost him a shilling, and after that declaration, if it were not true, with, what face could he ever enter Liverpool? There was a desire and a strong one to take from the lower order of voters in Liverpool the elective franchise—(Hear) —but to such a proceeding he never would consent. He had received innumerable and unporehased kindnesses from that body, and while he had a voice to raise it should be elerted in support of their rights.—(Hear, hear, hear.) — His family had long been connected with Liverpool, even as long ago as the times of Cromwell and of Charles; and he had no apprehension that that connection would be dis continued even if the reform 8.11 were to pass. He did not wish to detain the House lon4er, and he shatad con clude by observing that he wou'd not object to the resolu. tion if it was confined to the last election. Mr. J. WOOD said he entirely acquitted the Gallant General of any practices of corruption, or any privity to such practices, but he pledged himself to prove certain facts with respect to that boroogb. The Gallant General had, during the Last week. given proofa that he was too able a tactician—(litar, bear)—to be concerned in any such proceedings, cr to have any knowledge of their de tails. He, however, could prove that gross corruption had existed in Liverpool. Some years ago he had pre sented a document both to the Gallant General and the late, Mr. Huskisson, setting forth the sums which had been subscribed for supporting the Gallant General and Mr. Huski,son, and also the favours in the way of pa tronage the subscribers had received. Upon that docu ment he had contend, d, and would contend, that a party in Liverpool had conducted the elections fur their own personal and pecuniary advantage.—(Hear, hear.) His statement bad bees called in question by an anonymous ' Writer in a newspaper, but he maintained its accuracy, and would he again ready to hand it to the Gallant Ge rerah—(Hear.) Nor was that all ; for Mr. E. Rushton, a (tient! of his, had upon the hustings stated a case in which the• ext enters of a person who had subscribed a certain sum to the Election Ognimittee and who had not received the promist,' share of patronage for that sure, had compelled the Committee to return the sum Suhscribed.—(Loud cheers.) Then how were Mr. Canning's election expenses p id at Liverpool? Why, upon the same principle. For instance, 30,0001. was subscribed. and each subscriber was to receive a henefit proportioned to the sum he had given. An elector be knew had been re• quested to subscribe, and on his refusing he was asked if he did not approve of Mr. Canning's principles? He re plied that he did but that he would not subscribe, for if he subscribed 1001. he should merely be invited to a dinner and eivily shaken by.the hand by Mr. Canning in return, and that he had no wish to purchase a dinner and such civilities at such a price; and that as to subscribing a larger sum, as 5001. or 10001., which would entitle him to a share Of patronage, he should not do so, for he had no poor relation's to serve.—(Laughter.) Then with re •speet to the instructions Mr. Cunning's Committee gave concerning the out-voters. The Committee said to their agents, " Go to Manchester, make no bargains with a view to getting the votes cheap, but find out what the other side have offered, and do you give 11. more,"— (Hear, and a laugh.) This was the fact ; and he could prove that upwards of 90,0001 had been spent during the last twenty years (as we understood the Hon. Member) in bribing and corrupting the out-voters of Liverpool. This was a most disgraceful practice, and a most injurious one, as it affected the representation of the country. But theme was' another point of view in which the House ought. to look at it. The election of Magistrates was earried on in the same shameful way. In order to get elected Mayor of .Liverpool a candidate was compelled to pay from 6,000/. to 10,0001. The House should remember that a person once Mayor became a Magistrate for life ; and although he did nut mean to say that the Magistracy of Liverpool had misconducted themselves, be would contend it was not fitting that the peace and controul of such a town should be left in the hands of men who had procured their power by such means.—(Hear, hear.) The House wee, in his opinion, bound to take notice of the matter, not merely ftom a regard to its own purity—for that he I considered as a farce, but horn a regard for the parity of justice. - He would no longer detain the House but just to observe, that he vet ily believed the statements he had made to'be trile, and also that the truly mespectable inhabitants of Liverpool - would rather see that town deprived of the elective franchise altogether, than see it abused in the way it was at present.—(Hear.) The girl of SEFTON said, having been personally ap pealed to by tke lion. and Gallant General, he requested the indulgence of the House for a very brief period. In reply to the question put by the Hon. and Gallant Gene ral, he had to state that he knew, upon his own know. ledge —and he spoke not of the last election, but of °the!, —that the grossei4 corruption was practised at Liverpool. —(flear, hear.) When the present Lord Chancellor and Mr. Creevey stood against Mr. Canning and the Gallant General, he (the Earl of Sefton) took a very active part in behalf of his friends, anti in consequence of his so doily he was called as a witness before a Committee of that House. lie then stated what he knew, and he must now repeat that the Hon. and Gallant General did on the bus tin!;s, jocosely alluding to the non-payment of the election bid; of his (the E i rl o f S e f ton ' s) friends, say, " My elec tion expenses are paid every morn:ng."—(A laugh.) Mr. CLADSTONE made some observations, but was vary indistinctly heard in the gallery. We understood the Hon. Member to say that he did not rise for the pur- PcWe of dei . entliP" the conduct pursued at the last election at Liverpool : but a most unwarrantable attack had been made by the lion. Member for P.oton npon'thosp. whom be revered, and lie felt himself bi and to rise in their de feace. lie denied the correctness of the Hon. Member's (Mr. J. Wood's) .statement. Ti e system which that floor. Member bad detailed never did exist with Mr. can ning's friends.—(Hear.) It was true that applications fur vita onage wete sighed by the Committee before they Were acted upon by Mr. Canning, but it was not true that . 111 r. Cinaing had ever given authority to that Com mittee to dispose of his patronage. The money that was subscribed for the support of Mr. .Canning as a candidate 'for .Liverpool was sub scr ib e d from honourable inntives, atitrdid credit to those who subscribed it. He would tell khe Noble who spoke last: that if corruption did exist at 'former elections, it was his (the Noble Lord's) friends, and those of the Noble and Learned Lord who now occupied the woolsack.—(Hear, hear) This v the truth, and the only mark of gratitude the electors of Liverpool now received from the Noble Lards for the 20,000/. they had subscribed, was to be attacked anal held out as corrupt. It was true that a very considerable portion of the expenses at the election when Mr. Brougham watt a candidate were still unpaid. Mr. J. Woon explained. Mr. C. WOOD said that having Veen one of the elec tion Committee he could net sit still without contradict ing the statement of the Hon. and Gallant General, namely, that the report of the Committee was authorised only by the evidence of one witness. The contrary was the fact, and he was sure that every Member of the Com mittee would declare himself to the same effect, if his opinion was called for by the House. He did not meat, to say that the Gallant General had ever spent one far thing in election expenses in the town of Liverpool ; but then it was not proved in evidence that Mr. Ewart had ever spent a farthing in such a manner.—(Hear.)—The question was between the Gallant General and a Com mittee of that House, acting upon their oaths. Sir R. PEEL said he was extremely sorry the subject had been brought forwaffi at sucss time—(Hear, hear) — a moment when there was great excitement with reference to another and snore important question. He most de cidedly considered that some inquiry was necessary, but he was also of opinion that the House was not in a fit dispo sition at the present moment to make such an inquiry as would justify its coining to the resolution proposed. — (Hear.) Why, he asked, was the resolution at variance with the report of the Committee ?—(Hear, hear.) The Commit se had reported that gross corruption and treating took place at the last electiw of a burgess to serve in Par liament for the horongh of Liverpool. He had read the evidence, and he was prepared to vote for the confirma tion of that report.—(H••ar, hear.) But why, I.e asked, did the resolution proposed by the Hon. Member for Wiltshire differ from it ?--(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Mr. J. WOOD explained. Sir R. PEEL said, in allusion to something that had fallen from the Hon. Member for Preston, and was not heard in the gallery, that if a case of gross, systematic, and continued corruption could be proved against the nut-voters, he would unhesitatingly vote for their dis franchisement.—(Hear, hear.) The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be fully concurred in the suggestions made by the Right Hon. Baronet, and he hoped his Hon. Friend would content himself with moving the confirmation of the Report of the Committee. Mr. IIENETT said he had no objection to do so, for his purpose would be effected by such a course. He would not reply to the invidious observations which had been made by the Hon. and Gallant General, but he must say that of all the money be had spent in elections in Wilt shire, not one shilling had been applied to dishonest or dishonourable practices.—(Hear, bear.) He should like to knew if the Hon. and Gallant General would rise in his place and assert as much on the part of his Committee in Liverpool. The HON. MEMBER. was about to amend his resolu tion, when the SPEAKEtt suggested to him that the CUM tomary course was to move that the Report of the Com mittee be confirmed. The Riport of the Committee was then read. It was to the effect that gross bribery and treating had taken place at the late election of a burgess to serve in Parliament for the rtbrough of Liverpool. Me. BENETT moved that the Report lie confirmed. DISSOLUTION OF PARLIAMENT. Sir R. VYVYAN—Considering the state of ex citement of the House, owing to the reports ciculated in public during the last twenty-four hours, that a dissolution of the present Parliament was to take place, which may or may not be true, in consequence of our de ciding—( !fear, hear, ft om the Opposition)—that the num bers of this House still are to be kept up—the Members re turned by the Protestant part of Eugland —it is of the utmost importance for us to know whether we are really to be dissolved, and sent back to our Protestant constituents or not.---(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") It is of the highest importance for us to know whether his Majesty is determined for the first time in the annals of tho-history in this country, to come down and dissolve Parliament, because his Majesty's Ministers have come forward with a plan for the total subver-ion and entire destruction of the foundation of the Constitution, and because the House of Commons have determined not to consent to the plan, so far as it goes to reduce the number of English representatives. I do not know for what reason it is his Majesty's iiiiiiisters have made this the ground of a dissolution. I know that I had not the slightest idea of voting on the late occasion for the purpose of throwing out the Bill in that way. The Bill having been carried in the second reading by a majority of even one, ought to }nitre been discussed in Committee; and I should certainly have supposed that the question upon the clause for disfranchising the numerous boroughs that have bees alluded to, would have been the question in which the fete of the Bill would have been decided. I believe Lie Majesty's 'linistets, in their desperate condi tion—(Loud cheers from the Oppcsition)—have resorted to this step for the purpose of exciting the people through out the United Kingdom—(Hear, hear)—and I only hope that they themselves, and their gracious Sovereign may not have to look back to this as the first great blow struck in destruction of the monarchy of this country. The ques tion I now put to the Chancellor of the Exchequer is, whether it is the intention of big Majesty's Ministers to proceed with the Bill, or whether they mean to advise the King to dissolve Parliament, because they have not got the House to consent to the reduction of the number of representatives ? Lord ALTHORP—I have no hesitation in saying, in answer to the question put by the Hon. Baronet, that having taken into consideration the necessary consequences, and the necessary effects of the division which took place the other night, it is not, the intention of his Majesty's Government to proceed with the Bill.—(Deaf. ening cries of " Hear, hear.") Ido not consider that it would be consistent with my duty to answer the question I further. A Mx2,ll3Ut, whose same we could not learn, made a few observations, but such was the confusion of the House, and such was the noise occasioned by many of the Hon. Members suddenly quitting the House, that we were un able to ascertain their tendency. Colonel DAVIES, as the friend of Reform, expressed his regret at the course pursued by his Majesty's Ministers. He dui not think that the cause of Reform would be ad vanced by a dissolution of Parliament. It was most un fortunate that they had staked the fate of the Bill upon that particular question, on which there might perhaps be found a very general feeling in the country in conso nance to the decision of the House. In his opinion they should go on with the Bill, and get as much of it adopted :is they could. At present not a single borough was di,- franchiged ; but if they had succeeded in obtaining even a tithe of the measure, they might then have gone to the people with greater advantage. Mr. DUNCOMBE confirmed the statement of the Hon. Member for Cornwall that neither the Hon. Mem ber nor himself voted the other night fur the amendment If the Hon. and Gallant Member for Liverpool, with any view of getting rid of the Bill. Their only object was to get rid of the proposition for redtteing the number of English representatives. They did not conceive that, by voting for that amendment, they precluded themselves from adopting such parts of the Bill as they might con sider beneficial to the country. He considered that an awful responsibility would rest upon the heads of the Mi nistry, if they dissolved Parliament in the present excited state of the public mind. Mr. PORTMAN thought the Ministers had done wisely in not proceeding farther with this Bill. If the dissolu tion should take place, th e ques tion o f R e f or m wou ld b e placed in the rands of the people, and it would be for them to decide it as they thought proper. Colonel SIBTHORPE praised the conduct of the Gal lant Member for Liverpool ; and in reference to the ques tion actually before the House, remarked that subscrip tions had been made to ensure the return of his Gallant Friend (Gascoyne) for Liverpool ; and argued that this proved the confidence with which he was regarded by his constituents, and their gratitude for his services. He re marked, at the same time, that subscriptions were got up by a body called the Political Union, for very different purposes. They were entered into to oppose those Members who had done their duty by endeavouring to maintain the Constitution. For himself; he would stand or fall by the independent conduct which he had always pursued ; and if Government hereafter gave no more satisfaction by their measures than they had hitherto dune, he would never wish to see them again. Mr. ROBINSON thought Government had done wisely in abandoqink the Bill for the preept—and considered it a strange thing that lion. Members who bad been the principal opponents to the Bill, should charge the Minis ters with imprudence in a bandoning it when they had the decision of last night against thefts. He considered that the men who voted with the Gallant General were, gene rallylu t ary s p ß e e a f k o i r n in g,l u e cenemiesr Reform f u nit Reform.— peo a p t l e l ea r s e t q o u f i raeldl —a a Re fo flu which would give them not a nominal influence— hut their legitiMate'influence in the State. He could nct repeat the Hon: Member foe• Liverpool's resolution whirl. Ire had just read—and this not until after the vote upoii the Gallant General's motion. That this resolution con sisted simply of a string of st,ague truisms, and after it was carried the Hon. Member might have brought in a Bill giving any c.neeieq of Morn', or no Reform whatsoever. Sir R. VYVYAN explained. . . Lord MORPETH said, that if the Ministry had de termined on a dissolution, their determination showed their wisdom and spirit. As to the point of difference between him and the Hon. Member (Mr. W. Duneombe), he would not shrink from the decision of the country. Sir C. FORBES congratulated the House upon Mi nisters haring duandoned their Revolutionary Bill— (Hear and laughter)—and, as for a dissolution, he could not believe that Ministers would dare to recommend it to his Majesty; or that even if they did, his Majesty had not sufficient sense and prudence to resist and refuse that re commendation.—(Order, order.) If Government should resign it would give bin great pleasure; for, although he r spected individuals belonging to it, he could not respect those who composed it as a body. But that they would resign was what he feared the country could nut expect. They had been too long looking and struggling for place and power to give them up quietly.—(Hear.) They might be defeated on every measure—and, indeed, they were defeated on every measure, except the tax on steam boats, which was the only thing which remained, upon which they could be defeated.—(Loud laughter, and cheers.) They would not, however, resign—they would p-rtinaciously cling to office to the last possib'e moment. —( Hear, bear, and continued laughter.) As Mr. Canning said of another Whig Mini try—when they were driven from the ship, they would take to the boat—and when they were flung overboard from the boat, they would cling to the oir.—(Cheers and laughter.) Mr. HART DAVIS likewise congratulated the House and the country upon the withdrawal of the Bill. He was not afraid to meet his constituents in consequence of the votes he had given. Lord VALLETORT observed, that the Noble Lord opposite (Morpeth) had said the determination of Ministers to dissolve Parliament would show wisdom and spirit. He strongly denied the first proposition.; and as for the second, if desperate courage, reckless blindness, and total disregard of cons quences to those over whom they unfortunately ruled was spirit, this was spirit. He asked if this question of Reform was a question to be decided by the country while in such a state of excitement ? Certainly not ; but the Ministry felt'that their Bill was one which could only be approved by the country while in such a state of excite ment. They knew that if the feeling which was then abroad was suffered to progress—if feverish excit-ment were permitted to subside into wholesome quiet, the mea sure 'would meet the same treatment from the country, which it would have assuredly met from that House...-. (Hear, hear.) The project for dissolving Parliament at the present moment he considered highly criminal. He compared it to the design of putting a deadly weapon into the bands of a madman; and reminded Government that the person who put such a weapon within the grasp of a madman, was responsible for the murders he might commit in his paroxysm of insanity. Mr. R. PRICE hoped Government would not resign. They had the complete confidence of the Sovereign and the people: and he hoped they would have the wisdom and spirit to appeal to the people upon this subject. It was only for those who had acted in opposition to the wishes of their constituents to fear such an appeal. Mr. M. FITZGERALD rose to defend himself from gross misrepresentations of the grounds of his vote, upon the motion brought forward by the Gallant General. He voted for that motion, because he considered it a most un justifiable proposition to benefit Scotland and Ireland at the expense of the English representation. The grounds of his vote were the desire to do justice to England; and he would strongly maintain that the keeping up the full representation of England furnished no good reason why additional Members should not be given to Scotland and Ireland. For the leading individuals in the present Ad ministration he entertained the highest possible respect, and he did not believe the Reform Bill was cordially as sented to by these distinguished persons. He accordingly hailed the withdrawal of it with pleasure. Except some minor details, which could be adopted at any time, there was nothing in the Bill which could induce him to give it his approbation. He thought, that at present a dissolution would be a most unadvisable proceeding. The state of Ireland was most alarming in several counties—the pea santry were in actual rebellion, and there was no security for life and property. On what guarantee or security did they then proceed, that this state of things woul I not be rendered worse—and more alarming by the excitement of a dissolution ? They complained of nomination-boroughs —were they prepared to place the representation of Ire land in the hands of an individual ? Or, were they so encouraged by the result of the late elections as to suppose their own influence would be paramount? He could scarcely suppose this, since of the three elections which had recently occurred in Ireland, two were decided by the nomination of the Hon. Member for Waterford. What was all the nomination of rotten boroughs compared with the power of nomination that would be thrown by the Govern ment, in the event of a dissolution, into the hands of the Hon. and Learned Member for Waterford ? Was it nut notorious, that if the Hon. and Learned Member for Wa terford bad raised the cry of the repeal of the Union against Sir Henry Parnell, that Hon. Baronet would nut have been so easily returned for the Queen's County. Then, too, was it not equally clear, that, without the presence of an army in Kilkenny, the Noble Lord now re turned for that county would have been defeated by the nominee of the Hon and Learned Member? Where, however, was the army that would be able to give free access to the poll to the electors of all the counties in Ireland? It might be said that there would not be need of such an army. In one respect he believed it, for he be lieved that they had the guarantee of the Hon. and Learned Member that all should be quiet—that the elec tions should be free front disturbance—that the repeal of the Union should not be agitated, nor, indeed, any other question but that of Parliamentary Reform.—(Hear, hear.) He did not mean to soy that this might not he so, at least as far as the Hon. and Learned Member was concerned, for he did not mean to say that they were reckoning without their host on this occasion; but he believed, that great as was the power of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he did net possess power enough to secure the peace and tranquillity of that country. It was now well understood that an appeal was to be made to the people, and he feared the consrquences that might ensue. He would make one observation with respect to the speeches of the Hon. Member for Preston. He bad never been the friend of universal suffrage and vote by ballot a, but he agreed with that Hon. Member, that the effect of the Bill was to exclude the lower classes of this country from their share in the representation. He was opposed to such a change, and he should take his stand as decidedly against the disfranchisement of the constituency of Pres ton, because they were poor, as he should against the other part of the measure, which went to deprive property of its just influence in the country. He had few fears or anxieties about the election to which he probably should soon go. His political principles and consistency were too well known for him to fear the result of the election. He had always been ready to go the full length of any prac ticable measure of Reform, and for that reason be had given his vote for the disfranchisement of East Retford; but he had on a former occasion rejected, as he had now, a sweeping measure of disfranchisement. He should be glad, too, that the number of Members for Scotland should be increased, and that the important town of Bel fast should he brought snore politically forward. He was also willing to extend the representation to all the great cities of England. In any measure of Reform of this kind recently brought forward, the only justifiable course would be, that it should be proposed in one Session, and decided on in the next ; but the Parliament ought nut to be called or, to get rid of one Constitution, and to make another, all in the same Session. Sir J. NEWPORT observed, that while his Hon. Friend was addressing the House, it really was impossible to know, at least so far as his speech went, what was the question before them.—(Hear, bear, and laughter.)—if the House was thus to be drawn into a debate on a queer, tion that was withdrawn, he did not know when the de bates of that House were to have an end.—(Hear, bear.) —lt was certainly true that the Right Hon. Gentleman had formerly refused his assent to a sweeping measure, as he culled it, of this kind ; but three years afterwards, he, at the bidding of the Noble Lord then at the head of the Irish Government, concurred in one which was ten times as revolutionary.—( Hear, hear.)—lle objected to the in troduction of discussions of this kind. . Sir R. PEEL felt himself called on to vindicate the course taken by his Right Hon. Friend. That at an early period that House might be dissolved, was in itself a jus tification for those who had not before had an opportunity of expressing their opinions on the subject.—(Hear.)—He inferred from the silence of the Noble Lord opposite that it was the intention of the Government to risk that experi ment, which he thought tit the present time was fraught will danger, and might end in general tumult. • He qui; relied not with the Noble Lord for abandoning the Reform ' relative g e pi oport i ol o Bill ; if he thought there was that degree of objection to the Bill and to the d e t a il s as t o p re clude the further pro gress of the Lill, h e was a com p e t e nt judge of the matters and must be su pp ose d to b e r i g h t in his opinion ; b ut be must regret the es ithdraw a l of the measure on i;w6 motionaprjli, e, which had nothin g t o d o w ith its substance. In his op trion c,pl e.ißeformtiierought of ibieuicnotnitilnuieneig ed theon fixed at the time of the Union, or, if that proportion WO departed from, a NMII addition bhOUld he made to 00 number number These— wuuld I be base Noble 1 posed a of opini dtteed, i cut off a the nun to allot propose, for the fixed at their ri such a he (Sir meant 1 proving Bill dis cause it tion wa of a pi was GO rately ten. in last the "1 this, I that an genera out Et given, opiniot (Clive! hardly rested them was as to and 'email; Bill. .' they t< to be t wealth to den variou ing at played us t that n with t had as Bill w out it. consit BrtUis WOtlit] onunt ').: :s;u!' 1 R.4‘,1 ng mysell' shnuld anew I be . z to .tr. v~ r. t Lt i l&rs of the euunti I ACT. F.ented a pctiti-•n from of soinuch of die 'c ..?r Act .I:raiumptiert or bcer oo the he:e ca7zION3 c':r .GE 1"!)11 , Sir T. `2,La e were and c• 0 to L.,tr,il , uoJ Chip thi '~ l ' frith exp -( 11:e t, th,t. tis In intlL, to conduct the G sition if hiq cirty coul Warl COUD yen add exp tha wh Wai Jou