The Sun. — London, England, 1825-03-04 00:00:00

~~~,~ ,~ , )7 7 '_i_11110 gig/ . . _ . , \ 14 . .. , ~-Fs-xc, , / ,t, . _ Fr - ~.• - 1 ,-- - ~... .--- „, , ...., ..., i .. -,_ -41 ~.. 4 ~ .4t , 4. - • 'AP ] c i l :4= ,- --' -- :, , _ : -0 impl a \ - --"-- , / ~ 4 •.. . , , t avotico ve - / ' PM ' vto .. 6 Nirm - BER 10,133. FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1825. PRIcF„SFIVENPENc,Ii. NOTICE to OFFICERS in Receipt of RETIRED FULL or . HALF-PAY; Pay as reduced Adjutants of Local Militia; Foreign Half-pays and Allowances as Reduced Adjutants or Serjeant-Majors of Militia. NOTICE is hereby given, by o rder of the PAYMASTER -GENERAL, that since the Order is sued from this Office on the Bth Af December last, it has been determined, that OFFICERS who have taken, or shall take, •HOLY ORDERS after the -24th June, t 824, shall be allowed to receive Retired Pay,,Half-Pay, and Military Allowances, provided it shall appear to the satisfaction of the Secretary•at-War that they. had entered themselves at either of the Universities of Oxford, Cambridge; or Dublin, 'before that date, for the express purpose of becominz Mi- Ilistcrs of the Established Church. DAVID MARTIN, Cashier of Retired Pay, &c. Army P ay Office, Whitehall, March k, 1825. THE 102 d ANNIVERSARY of the MEET ING of the THREE CHOIRS of HEREFORD, WORCESTER, and GLOUCESTER, for the Relief of the Widows and Orphans of Distressed Clergymen, will take place at HEREFORD on the 6th of SEPTEMBER NEXT.— The Band, which will consist of Performers from the Hano ver.equare Rooms and the Opera House, will be under the di rection of Professor CLARKE WHITFIELD, whose ar rangements gave so much satisfaction at the last Meeting.— The Stewards are The Hon. Hobert Clive T. Symons, Esq. Barneby, Esq. The Lord Bishop of Chichester The Rev. Henry Huntingford The Rev. lienry_Wetherell. S OCIETY FOR THE SUPPRESSION'or MENDICITY. THE SEVENTH ANNIVERSARY MEET • ING of the SUBSCRIBERS and FRIENDS to the awe Institution, will take place at FREEMASON'S HALL, o n THURSDAY, the 10th of March, at Twelve o'Clock, when a Report of the Society's Proceedings will be read, and the Officers appointed for the ensuing year. PAT ROY. His Royal Highness the Duke of YORK, K.G. &c. &c. PRESIDENT. His Grace the Duke of NORTHUMBERLAND, K.G. &c. VICE-PRESIDENTS. 11 is Grace the Duke of Grafton P ' i s Grace the Duke of Bedford lhe Most Noble the Marquis of Anglesey The Most Noble the Marquis TheLansdowne The f • Most Noble the Marquis of Tavist oc k TlTlle e Right Hon. Earl Ferrers Right Hon. the Earl of Ii Right Hon the Earl of c le ara N y i , k T RigKt e Hon. Earl Gros venor The Right Hon. the Earl of Chichester The Right Hon. the Earl of Verularn The Right Hon. Earl Darnley ~' he Rt. Hon. E ar l Brownlow ,the Right Hon. Earl Morley , The Right Hon. and Right ~,Rev. Lord Bisdop of London 'The Hon, and Right Rev. the Lord Bishop of Durham Visrecoa—Matf TREASURER—WiIIiat BOARD OF M, James Alley, Esq. W. Vi scount B e l grave , W. Beekford, Esq. Geo. Bridges, Esq. Aid. M.P. 1.1. Briscoe, Esq. Irving Brock, Esq. G. L. N. Collingwood, Esq. Corbett, Esq. 4r • P. Craufurd, Esq. , Loseph Dowson, Esq. I Th• H. Eden Entwisle, Esq. %;,has. Francis, Esq. "; H. Freese, jun. Esq. l• A. Goldsmid; Esq. 4 : Griffin, Esq. Si r C• S. Hunter, Bart. Hammersley, Esq. '• T. Hope, E sq . miles Jacks , Esq. . ASSISTANT MANAGER—Mr. William Walker. 4117 :irrents—William Reynolds, Esq.; George Bartrup, Esq.; H. W. Smith, sq. HONORARY COUNSEL—Thomas Abraham, Esq. HONORARY SOLICITOR—Wm. Tooke, Esq. F.R.S. H is Royal Highness the DUKE of YORK has been grad °llllY pleased to signify his intention to preside. Seats will be provided for Ladies. .: r The plan of the Institution is, the issue of printed Tickets 7. distribution to Street Beggars, in lieu of Alms, which 1 1 ekets refer them to the Society's House, where they are sup. !ed with Food, and a Statement of the Case of each registered. Ile truth of this Statement is afterwards ascertained by Per. I: r ial In and Inquiry, when necessary, and the Case then disposed of according to circumstances. cl ee Th e experience of the Managers has impressed them with a o e P sense of the importance of the Society. They have had . heart.felt satisfaction of rescuing many really descrying t h.2ects from wretchedness and misery, whilst, at the same time, h - Y . have exposed and brought to justice a considerable num. of er of daring Impostors who infested and disgraced the streets ne .r..ne metropolis, and who were living in habits of drunken. 411 4 riot with the sums daily bestowed on them from a 41,1csttaken humanity. They entreat the Public to assist their ea vours by distributing their Tickets, and discontinuing al. together4i the present impolitic practice of indiscriminate Alms wo,,tN• If this object were once attained, the ' sturdy beggar "'" be Qompelled to work, as the most artful imposture could 4._of no avail—the employment of children in begging (one ancause of juvenile crime) would be terminated—the most 47 1 t,ing features . of the present system would gradually recede, of " the wretchedness, indolence, and vice of a numerous class °ltra fell Ow-creatures might, in the course of time, give place sa,f..l . bits of Industry and Virtue. Since the opening of the Office, on the 25th March, 1810, ve -PG Cases have been referred to the Office; during the in rnastigation of which the Society has given 196,318 Meals, in c4Y cases Cl ot h es , an d genera ll y M oney to p rocure Lodgings ; 4 confirmed Vagrants have been a pp r ehended ; and 2,387 4 , 1 1 . 1 itted, through the instrumentality of Constables, employ . the Society for that purpose. of ,3 scribers of One G u in ea o r upwards per Annum, or Donors oTen Guineas, are Governors : of the Institution, and as such entitled to an unlimited quantity of Tickets for distribution eggars. -I,`lonual Subscriptions may be commenced at any period of die til:44a!;, y o and will be calculated from the Quarter Day nearest to n which the first payment is made, Red Lions By order .of the Board, March 1, 18 25. 5 TV. H. BODKIN, Hon. Sec. 1113,sscriptions are received by the Treasurer, Wm. Williams, L 4 l OLP., Birchin-lane Masts. Hammersley, and Co. Pall heskienMesers. Driimmonel, Cliaring.cross ; by Mr. Stephens, Colle,ctotrelerk . , at the Societyli House • and by Mr. Fisher, 3, Salisbury.squtue. The Right Hon. Lord Dynevor The Right Hon. Lord Cal- thorpe' The Right Hon. Lord I.ilfora The Right Hon. Lord Sondes The Right Hon. Lord Suffield The Right Hon. Lord Chur. chill The Right Hon. Lord Bexley The Right lion. Lord Chief Justice Abbott The Right Hon. C. Arbuthnot, M. PI The Right Hon. W. S. Bourne, 111.1): The Right Hon. Robert Peel, I%LP. R. J. W. Horton, Esq. M.P. The Hon. George Vernon S. Thornton, Esq. I. Drummond, Esq. James Buller, ENq. I. Weyland, sun. Esq. Matthew Martin, Esq. hew Martin, Esq.. n Williams, Esq. M.P. tNAGEZIENT. 11. G. Knight, Esq. Sir J. W. Lubbock, Bart. A. Macklew, Esq. James Millar, Esq. William Meyrick, Esq. Basil Montagu, Esq. A. G. Milne, Esq. M. S. Nicolson, Esq. D. Neave, Esq. E. Penrhyn, Esq, H. Pownall, Esq. Rich. Ramsden, Esq. The Hon. C. J. Shore T. R. Smith, Esq. J. S. Taylor, Esq. W. C. Thomas, Esq. Captain the Hon. 0. G. Wal degrave, R.N. Lawrence Williams, Esq. ARMY CONTRA C'f; Commissariat Department, Treasury Chanthers, - - Feb. '26,.182.5. N OTICE is . hereby given to all Persons de sirous of contracting to supply the following Articles for the Use of the Army, viz..:— BREAD—To his Majesty's Land Forces in Cantonments, Quarters, and Barracks, in the under-mentioned Counties and Island.; Bedford, Berks (including the Town of Hungerford), Ber wick, Bucks, Canihridge (inclilding the Town of Newmar ket), Chester, Col nwall (including Scilly), Cumberland, Der by, Devon, • Dorset, Durham (including Holy Island), Essex (exclusive of Tilbury Fort), Gloster (including the City of Bristol), Hants, Hereford, Hertford, Hums, Isle of Man, ,Isle of Wight, Kent (including Tilbury Fort, in the County of Essex), Lancaster, Leicester, Lincoln, Middlesex, Mon .tntroth„ Norfolk, Northampton, Northumberland, Notting ham, Oxford, Rutland, Saiop, Somerset, Stafford, Suffolk, Surrey, Sussex, Warwick, Westmorland, Wilts, Worcester, 1w k, North and South Wales: in the several Counties in North Britain, and •in the Islands of Alderney, Guernsey, and Jersey. • As also Bread to the Household Troops in London and its Vicinity qxcs, to his Majesty's Cavalry and Artillery Horses, in Cantonments and' Quarters, in the under-mentioned Coun- tiro : Beam!, Berwick, Bucks, Cambridge, Chester, Cumber land; Derby, Durham; Gloucester, Hereford, Hertford, Hunts, Leicester, Lincoln, Monmouth, Oxford, Rutland, Salop, Stafford, Westmorland, Wilts, Worcester, North and South Wales. FORAGE, viz.—OATS, HAY, and STRAW—To his Nla7 jesty's Cavalry and Artillery Horses in Barracks, and Oats, in Cantonments and Quarters, in the undermentioned Counties in South Britain : , Berks, Cornwall, Devon, Dorset, Essex, Hants (including the Isle of Wight), Kent, Lancaster, Middlesex, Norfolk, Northampton, Northumberland, Nottingham, SOmerse!, Suf folk, Surrey, Sussex, Warwick, York, and in the several Counties in Nnrth Britain. That the Deliveries are to commence on and for the 25th day of April next ; that Propocals in writing, sealed np arid marked, " Tender for Army Supplies," will be received at, this Office on or before Tuesday, the 29th day of March next, but none ,will be received after Twelve o'Clock on that day. - - Proposals must be made Separately for each County and Island, except for the Counties comprising North and South I Wales, all of which must be included in one Tender; like wise the Islands of Alderney, Guernsey, and Jersey; as Alsit the several Counties in North Britain ; and each Pro posal inapt have the Letter which is 'annexed to the Ten der properly filled up, by 'rwo Persons of knOwn Property, engaging to become bound with - the Patty tendering, in the Ainolitit - slated. in the printed Particulat s,for the due per formance of the Contract; and no Ptoposat will be noticed unless made on a priuted Tender, and the PriCes expressed in words at length ; .and should it so happen that during ttie continuance of the Contract no Troops should he supplied by virtue of the same, the amount of the StaMps on the Con tract and Bend. paid in the first instance by the Contractors 'shall be refunded to him. _ Particulars of the Contracts ma y be had upon application at this Office, between the hours of Ten and Four. _ _ ....„ N. B. Samples of the Bread and Meal may he seen at the Office between the hours of Twelve and Two. LONDON REPOSITORY for the CABINET MAKERS. -SOCIETY, for every Description of CABINET FURNI TURE, FEATHER BED and MATTRESS _MANU FACTORY, No. 71, Corner of • LEADENHALL STREET, London, opposite Ald - gate Pump.—Ready 'IM - ossey Only. _ _ rrilE Society of Cabinet-Makers respectfully JL inform the Public that they still continue the above Establishment, for the Benefit of Industrious Mechanics who have large Familes, by offering them Manufactured Articles in the Cabinet Line, of the best Workmanship, and Cheaper than any House can do in London by twenty-five per .cent., there being no other profit required on the Goods but the bare house expences ; at the same time will be sufficieatly satisfied with having constant Employment for themselves and families. This Society was Established in June, 1821, consisting of 20 Mechanics, adding the number of their Wives and Fami lies, amounted to 66 ; in June, 1819, five more were added to the .Society ; in June, 1820, 10 ; and in June 1821, 8. The total Number now receiving Support through the Means of this Establishment is'l9 1. T.he Society and their Families beg leave to return their sincere thanks to those Ladies and Gentlemen who have hitherto honoUred them with their Orders and Recommenda tions, and shall always feel - happy in their endeavoufs to give future satisfaction; at the same time solicit a Continuance of their Benevolence, whereby they may be enabled to increase the NuMber of the Society. The following Articles are inserted as a Specimen of the very Low Prices, all warranted.-Ready Money only. Full size Mahogany four-post Bedstead, lath bottom 31. 15s. -Full size tent Bedstead 11. 65.--Bordered hair Mattress to fit 11. ls.-Mahaany Drawer, solid ends 31 . 3 5.-Feather Bed 21. 10s.-Ditto, fee from dust and smell, full size 31. 10s.- Six japanned Chairs of any description in oil 11. 65.-Best do. Wash-hand-stand 165.-Ditto, Dressing Table 165.-Hearth Rugs 145.-3 ft.. 6 inches Chest of Drawers 41. 45.-Three-foot mahogany Pembroke Table 11. 18s.-Three-foot ditto on pil lars and claws 31. 155.-111ahogany Dressing Table 11.-Ditto Bidett, best 11. 45.-Ditto Bedsteps 11. Bs.-Ditto ditto 11. 12s. -Ditto ditto 21. 2s - -Ditto Box Glass, 2 drawers, best British Plate 155.-Ditto ditto Is. 65.-Ditto ditto 11. 18s.-Ditto Swing Glass, large size, commode 35.-Ditto ditto 5 5. - Ditto ditto Bs.-Ditto ditto 125.-Sea Bed and Pillow ss. th.! -Ditto ditto 63.-Ditto ditto 75.-Tray Stand 75.-Long Mahogany Tray Lis-Japanned Book Shelf 75.-Tea Caddy 10s.-Porta ble Desk 215.,-Desli covers in number 1-15.-Music Chairs any pattern Bs. 6t1.-Eight Mahogany Chairs, covered with horse hair, brass nailed 61. 65.-8 ditto ditto 61. 155.-8 ditto ditto 71. 75.-8 Trafalgar ditto 91. 145.-IMahogany Sofa to match 71. 10s.-Ditto Couch 71. 105..- - -Ditto ditto 81.105.-Ditto, with Bedstead 71. 103.-Set of 'Mahogany Card and Sofa Tables, on turned legs, handed in rose-wood 81. 155.-Set of Mahogany Tables, two Card and Sofa, on pillars and claws 121. 12i.- Ditto, the best that can be made-to order or pattern 161. Ws -Handsome 7 foot 6 pedestal, Sideboard, with carved back, 17L-Ditto 7 font 161.-'Ditto 6 fOot six 151.-Set of Dining Tables, of the last pattern, 4 foot by 10 foot 61 11.- Ditto.-4 foot 2by 11 foot 6,151.-Ditto, 4 foot 6by 12 foot 6, 161. 165.-lf Spanish, an advance of 31. IN.-Straw Palliasse 11. ls.-Tent ledstead and furniture 31. 15.-Bamboo Bed stead and French elyptic top, with drapery and fringe, 81. IU , . -Five-foot mahogany four-post Bedstead and furniture, with French draperies, lined all through, complete, la" 10s.- Five-foot ditto, ditto 16s. 10s.-Ditto ditto, with cornice, of a superior make, 181. 10s.-Ditto ditto, with gold cornice, ele gant drapery 2 0 1 .-Drawing-rooin Curtains, of the - best Mo rine and Chintz, fitted for wi n d ow , 61. &d.-Ditt o dit to 71. 7 s . -DittP, of a superior and e l egant sty l e o f wor k , 101 . Drawing-room rose-woad-Drawing-room Trafalgar Chairs Ditto, inlaid with bold. 201 . -Table, 2 Covers, and Sofii, 181. 18 5 .-Ditto 11. ls.--Drawing-roorn Sofa 61. 65.-Ditto, 71. 7s. -Ditto 81. al~.-Horse-hair Cushions, each ss. 61-Covered ditto 41. W. THURNELL, Agent. COUN'RY DEALERS SUPPLIED. Goods packed free of expence, except the materials, and sent to all parts of Great Britaini, and to the East and West In and merchants - supplied with Ca iibiiense.t-GCooapdtsafionrs E cit p te o t u r i ta o uo t, n * Apartments Furnished at a few hours' notice, and • Houses two or four days. PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORES, IthßcH 3. The Twenty Millions Exchequer 3ills Bill, the Transfer in Aids Bill, and the Annual Indemniv Bill, were 'read a third time and passed. Earl GitOSVENOR said, he wassorry to trespass again on the attention of the House relative toa matter concerning him self; but he feltit necessary to corect another error that had gone abroad. In the remarks which ie had taken the liberty of making on a former night, he had stlted that lie had not made any thing by any speculations, and hat in short, he had not been concerned in any of those spectiations of which so many were afloat. He had been erroneously reported by the public press to have said, that although he lad not recently made any money in this way, on some former accasion he had done so. He felt it therefore necessary to correct this report, and to state, that he had never been concerned in my speculations of a any de scription whatsoever. _ _ _ Lord ESSEX made some observations respecting a Magis trate of the name of Kenrick, ON; pirport of which was inau dible below the bar. DUBLIN CORPORATION. Lord KING presented a petition from the humble individuals of the City of Dublin, John Finlaysos and James and Edward Adcock, who stated that they had a right to be elected freemen of the City of Dublin, but that being Roman Catholics and poor, their claims had been rejzcted by the Corporation. That the Catholic Association had appointed a lawagent to support their rights, in consequence of which a . R application • had been Made to, and a mandamus obtained from, the Court of King's Bench directing them to be admitted members of one of the Guilds ; but that if the Catholic Association were suppressed., they should be unable to prosecute their claims. They prayed therefore that the Bill to put down the Catholic Association might not pass into a law : —headand , laid on the table. CATHOLIC PETITIONS. , The Earl of DONOUGIIMORE had several petitions to present against the Bill, but having already expressed his sen timents on the measure on a former day, he should only say that amongst those which he held was one from the Catholics of the County and City of Cork, for which he claimed particular attention on account of the number and respectability of the individuals by whom it w as s i gne d. Th e N o bl e E ar l t h en pre sented petitions against the. Bill from the Protestants and Ca tholics of the Parish of St. James, Dublin, from the Catholics of three united Parishes, and those of llumnanaway, Trirnolee, Yonghall and its vicinity, and Bantry in the County of Cork ; from those of the County and City of Cork, and those of Ken mare in the County of Kerry.—,Laid on the table. • Similar Petitions were presented by the Duke of -DEvoN SHIRE from the Catholics of the County and City of-Water ford and those of the towns of Dungarvon and Bandon. By Lord HOLLAND from-the united Parishes of St. Michael and St. John's, in the City of Dublin. By Lord BELIdORE from the Freeholders of the County of Tyrone. By the Duke of LEns - sTER from a great n,umber of Parishes in the County of Kerry. By the Marctuis of DowmstfinE from several Parishes in the County of l ermanagh. )3y Viscount CLIFDEN from the Parish of St. Pours, in the City of Dublin. ... 'By the Marquis of LAN'SDOW If from the Parishes 'of' St. cry's, St. George's, and St. Thomas's, Dublin. -..- By Earl DARNLEY, .from certain parishes in the County , of Meath, and by Lord E LLE NBOROU oH,,from some united Parishes in that of Kerry. All these Petitions were laid on the table. Lord (loiam presented a Petition from the Protestant Inha bitants of Dublin, in farour of the Bill.—Laid on the table. OftA 31 - E N. Lord KENYON held a Pennon from certain Protestants, members of Orange Asfociations in Ireland, who wished to have an opportunity of showing what were the principles and conduct of those Associations before the Committee now sitting On the state of Ireland. They nentioned the circumstances of their history, the-period which they had existed, and the public marks of approbation which they had received for their con duct from high authorities both in England and Ireland, will they prayed that all those subjects should be inquired into be fore they were included within the operation of the Bill before the House. Their Lordships would recollect that Parliament had passed an Act two . years ago to put down ceremonies which were considered inconsistent with the public tran quillity in Ireland. The Orangemen, duly impressed with the spirit of obedience to. the laws, had iinmediaLely sub mitted to what they required. .It was therefore hard, that when a measure- was • passing to suppress an Association, whose violent proceedings had excited alarm and disapproba tion, they should he included within the same condemnation. They submitted that they had received from one Lord Lieu tenant and two Commanders in Chief thanks for their conduct on various occasions, and that instead of being constituted into a Body to change the existing laws, their object was to support them. They did not pray to be heard by Counsel at the Aar, but earnestly appealed to the House to institute an official in quiry into the principles and conduct of the Orange Societies.— The petition having been read, Lord ItEN YON moved that it be referred to the-Commit.: tee on the State of Ireland.—Ordered. UNLAWFUL SOCIETIES' BILL, _ _ _ The Earl of LIVERPOOL moved the Order of the Day for the second reading of the Unlawful Societies Bill. • The Earl of CAERNARVON presented a petition from a number of Irish Catholics praying to be heard at the Bar of tha House against the Bill. He should wish to know whether it was the intention of the Nobje Earl opposite to comply with the prayer of the petition; before he stated the grounds on which he-thought the House should adopt that course. The, Earl of LIVERPOOL had no hesitation in saving, that under the circumstances of the case, he did not consider the petitioners entitled to be heard as against the Bill. The Earl of CAERNARVON conceived the claims of the petitioners to be heard before they were condemned, to be founded on the strictest justice. If justice were revered on earth, where ought it to be more revered than in that House, which was the highest Court of justice in the country. The present Bill was not one of an incidental nature sent up by tfie other House. It was the measure recommended by his Majesty in his Speech, the measure which Parliament had too hastily pledged itself to consider and prepare on the first day of the Session. If it were so, he called upon their Lordships to examine how the Members of the Catholic Association stood affected as to that Bill, by the votes of the House and the Speech of his Majesty. That Speech contained a most heavy charge against them, for it charged them with having adopted proceedings irreconcileable with the spirit of the Constitution. Was that no heavy imputation ? Was it nothing for individuals to be impeached by_ Royalty itself? W as i t not hi ng f or loy a l subjects that their King should come to Parliament and actetse them of creating alarm, exasperating animosities, and en dangering *the peace of Society. And could their Lordships hesitate to admit to their liar those arraigned individuals, when they offered to prove, that charges so heavy in their na ture, and rendered still heavier by the mode in which they were made, were wholly untrue ? If they were wholly untrue, then, of all men, they had been the most calumniated. When, on former occasions, measures had been proposed to curtail the liberty of the people, they had not been grounded on news paper accounts alone. I'apers had a l ways been laid on the table, or Secret Committees appointed, to Report on the evi dence produced. For the latter there was no occasion, as there was nothing of a delicate nature in the subject which should re venno?t t H he e f w o a rm s i e n r str c u ou et t e s d e p q t u t r i r s e u ead secret Ni 7 h y u w q e u r ry n ( 4 ) documents w g u i to say to their Lordships that the principal object of the pe titioners was to be enabled to lay before them the minutes of all their proceedings from the institution of the Catholic Association to the present hour, that they might convince the House that there was n othing in those proceedings or in their conduct to create alarm, exasperate animosities, and deserve such a measure as the present. It might b e said, that the As sociation was not named in the Preamble, but it was notorious from the recommendation in the Speech from the Throne, and from every thing which had since occurred, that the chief ob ject of the measure w as directed a g ains t that Association. It might also be objected, that it was the custom of their Lord. ships to hear petitioners at the Bar only on their personal and no personal interest and conduct involved when their character were charged with such heinous offences ? With what view should the House le gislateottcoof-nptcreasreyrvt4inhguutrdapeqeurileluitny in Ireland? What much r having had so much n ot s their o public interests. th eda rk ? B u u n t , had y they le w hi c h their -hardships stood ? It was a ex e pthereienoneely to m be still considered must complex and difficult to proposedwas the s t i n t u t a h t e i ; I T to i in sa 13 comprehend and to be enforced, to impose restraints on the people of Ireland, with the state of which the eereat bulk of the House he feared was but little acquainted;and no grounds whatever for the measure were produced. Were an inquiry instituted, the result might be an important legislative mea sure. Let their Lordships at least know what the evil was which required their interference, that they should be able to judge whether the remedy proposed were the proper one. What, if the result of such an inquiry should be that the proceedings of the Catholic Association .had not been calculated to create alarm and danger, but that the peril arose from another quar ter ? He called upon the House to ascertain whether the petitioners were or were not the mischievous individuals which they had been represented to be. The Noble Earl then urged the importance of tranquillizing Ireland. The two countries must stand or fall together. Separated, their strength was broken : united, they seemed placed by nature in the surrounding ocean, to the admiration and the support of the world. It were vain to rely on seven millions of Irish Ca tholics unless they were treated like fellow-subjects, partici pating in the same privileges. If one limb were paralysed, life would soon be gone from the body of the empire. Let . the first act of grace ,he, not to remove these petitioners front the bar, not to condemn them unheard. Their Lordships were directed by his Majesty's Speech to consider of a remedy : let them do so; let them inquire, and not adopt " proceedings irreconcileable to the Constitution, tending to create alarm, and to exasperate animosities." For if this indescribable Bill could be described, it could not be by other words than those of the Speech itself. Let nothing be done to disturb the _tran quillity, which, it was admitted by the authors of the measure, prevailed in Ireland, and nothing could stop in its progress, the prosperity of an united empire. The Noble Earl con cluded by moving that the petitioners be heard by Counsel at the Bar. The Earl of LIVERPOOL should not allow himself to be led into the discussion of the general question as to the State of Ireland or the Catholic Association, as there would be sufficient opportunities for discussing it afterwards. But as to the particular question now before their Lordships, they must give up all the general rules of proceeding of the House, and establish a most inconvenient and dangerous precedent, if they acceded to the prayer of the. petition. What was the bill proposed ? One of regulation,—one which did not even name the Catholic Association, but was applicable to all asso ciations, and being founded on an evasion of a former act, bad for its chief object to prevent that evasion by new enact ments. If individuals, or particular bodies, *ere to be heard on every bill s lie did not know how their Lordships . could le gislate at all. In cases of imminent danger, no precautionary measure could be carried to repress that danger till long after it had burst upon the country. It was true, that on certain oc casions, local or commercial interests were heard, but even then it was nut onehe second reading of a bill, but in a Com mittee, and notean. the general measure, but on special points. What Bill could there possibly he which would not affect some body of men ?. If one were heard, how could oth ers b e re fused ? ..The result w'euldhe,thet the hands of the House would be tied up : 40 other applications would follow the present one if it were granted, end as thee same justice must be done to all, the Bill would pass six Months hence and all its effect would be lost. f He had said that *bill was one of general regulation and did not apply to the Catholic Association alone. At the same time he would not be solencandid as to deny that the proceedings of that Association formed to a great extent the grounds of th e measure.. The Noble :Earl had - said that when laws had been proposed to restrict the liberties of the people, documents had been produced and Secret Committees appointed. Yes, this had .been done, because the measures were to be founded on those documents ear_ the Reports of those Committees ; but here the only ground was the. notoriety of the proceedings. Nothing was assumed which the Catholic Aisociation did not avow, and it would be hii object, when discussing the Bill, to prove out of that -very notoriety the expediency of its being passed. It was not- directed against the Catholic Association alone, but against all others, for that Association was calculated to lead to others dangerous:, to. the Constitution. Whatever was done was therefore 'done in the least objectionable way, as the operation of the Bill was made general. As to the necessity for inquiry, their Lordships knew by their own votes and those of the other House, that there did exist a general inquiry into the state of Ireland, and that there was every disposition on the part of his Majesty's Government to make it as full and extensive as possible. It was not an hour since a Noble Friend :of his had proposed to refer the petition of sonic Orangemen, who complained of being included within the Bill, to that Committee of Inqeiry.e And if there were persons of that body who wished to be examined, he was perfectly willing to admit that they were entitled-to a hearing before that Committee. He believed that a Gentleman belonging to the Catholic Associa tion had been, or had requested to be, examined by the same Committee. Let him, and let as many as would, come before that C.torninittee and give evidence on all questions ; he wished that every one should be heard. It had been said that the in.. quiry would tithe place after, instead of before the Bill had passed. He admitted that ; but was there not a great differ ence in preparing, measures to sift the whole state of Ireland to the bottom, or merely passing one which rested on general no toriety. He considered the present Bill to rest merely on mat ters of fact, on which no doubt could be entertained. If any of those facts were contested, he would give it up. He could see no reason. why the House should establish a most inconve nient precedent, which, if applied in one instance, must be ap plied in all, to the Orange Societies as well as to the Catholic Association, He therefore felt that he best discharged his duty by giving his negative to the motion. Earl n e o i ti f oi h t t .he t ehaajrl precedent,eswt a chh d eao m dobf i atntctieohdtet justhiti ilaioset House, snt s e t od r , s e ot n nwf g oli t r l tt t co( i, o bt f icheo t ean h idpeueptometboani j e G o f it t E h o d f uc a t i i i on be o e f o ' , a m n a e d w e men without trial. Ilaving heard nothing from the Noble Earl on that subject, he rose to give his cordial support to the motion of his Noble Friend. Ile was surprised that the No ble Earl had not taken a more manly ground, instead of say ing that the measure was one of a general character, and not connecdtoeudbbteydn that ame thewithC the Catholic Atholiscsotsastoiocin was its i b ts utcoulle it be object, when even the petitions presented in favour of the Bill prayed that it might pass in order to suppress that Association. — It would have been a more creditable proceeding in the Government to legislate directly and exclusively against that Body. Had that been done, would the Noble Earl have thought the Petitioners entitled to be heard ? [No, from the Earl of Liverpool.] The Noble Earl said No, and was obliged to say so, because had lie admitted tlier claims in that view of the case, he (Lord Grey) would have proved that they were equally entitled in the other. It was said that the Orangemen had petitioned ; but they considered themselves so little affected by the Bill that they had merely prayed to be heard by the Committee sitting on the State of Ireland, in order to repel the calumnies with which they had been assailed. What was the character of the measure ? It imposed a new and severe restriction of a public right on the whole people of Ireland, on account of the acts of the Catholic Association. Here, -then, the whole body of the people were to be deprived of their rights, on allegations of individual de linquency supported by particular facts. Now the petitioners said that they denied those facts, and were ready to prove that those allegations could not be maintained. Would their Lord ships not allow those individuals to vindicate themselvei, and yet proceed to mulct the people of Ireland of its rights, on account of their supposed delinquency. They were charged with creating alarm, and that, if it existed, it W3S only in the breasts of those who feared that they would obtain the adjustment of their just claim. They were charged with endangering public tranquillity ; but they answered that they had produced no disturbance, and that even the King's Speech admitted the peace of Ireland at this moment to be more complete than at any former period. They were told that they assumed the prerogatives of Parliament and levied taxes ; but they replied, they levied no tax, and what they took was from voluetary contributions, as all others Societies had done since the period of the Revolution. They were accused of having a Black and a Red book, and of inscribing in the Black the names of those who refused to pay the rent in older to devote them to persecutiob. They denied having such a book, and offered to prove that they had not, and made no such distinctions at the Bar. But, said the Noble Earl, Committe of Inquiry is going on, let them go and be examined ; let Mr. O'Connell come anti state his eibejse,c but t e i v n e e r a y n ' i t l i e tu lad e of i w investigationou litpls pass, ill be a ll When nuol measures l i ite s hostile to the liberties of the country were proposed, as the Noble Earl justly stated, they (the Opposition Lords) had called for general inquiries. Certainly, but what was their object ? To inevestigaptaesathede.groAuneomt d o s of ithtel fo thosemeasures be fore,as not after they had now sitting, would the Noble Earl suspend the Bill till their Report was received ? If so, he ((Lord Grey) would agree that Mr. O'Connell and the Catholie Association should be heard before the Committee. BUt it was an insult to say that the Bill should first pass, and that investigation might follow, _Suppose, and he thought it most likely, that it had been proved before the Committee in question, that - none of the 7 chatges brought against the Catholic Association were founded, that they were all calumnies, and that a report to thateffeet should be made to the House, in what situation .would their ',Lordships stand ? They would have passed a law .reselicting ,the rights of the subjects, and after inquiry it would be preyed that there was no foundation whatever for such a law ! The Noble Earl said that in cases of imminent clanger, hearipg petitioner against Bills might be injurious ; but would that Noble Lord . 85 y th at great inconveniences weuld' now arise from sumperiting the progress of the measure till the petitioners had roscued them selves from the charges cast upon them ? The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that rumour had de. scribed the Bill under their Lordships' consideration as one that had' emanated from a certain Noble Lord in that House, but rumour was never more mistaken than in attributing it to him. Until within about eight hours ago, he (the Lord, Chan cellor) had never seen it, though he was ready to confess,7that having since seen it, the I3ill had his complete concurrence. There was art'Act in force called the Convention 'Act, with which tie present measure was directly connected. What the law of Ireland . might be with respect to the proceeding's .which those Bills were intended to affect, lie did not presume to know. But he desired not to be considered as one of those yiTieetheuglit that in England such proceedings would be lilt al: Ije stated this because he wished to guard himself against being sup posed to pretend to a knowledge of the law of Ireland, or to admit, in deference to any opinion, that if a body. in . Eeglend assumed to itself the powers of Parliame.nt, or attempted to overrule it, that body could' be considered legal. The Con vention Act declared that persons should not he delegated by any portion of the people to act upon their part ; bat where was thedifferenee? Or what did it signify, whether th'ey were antecedently elected, Or whether, After assuming to act, they were approved of by the - persons whom they had professed to represent ? The evil was the sane to society, whether appoint ment in the first instance, or assent in the last, gave them the authority against which Parliament had undertakenao legis late. He agreed with the Noble Earl, who spoke last, in think ing, that if that Bill was meant only to put down the Catholic Association, he would rather see the name of the Association inserted in the Bill.—(flear, hear !)—That he did not deny ; and if the conduct of the Association had been such as-was de scribed in the enactments of the measure, he would, be justified in assuming that such was the intention. When upon a well known occasion he had introduced a bill into the House of Com mons for the purpose of putting down The Corresponding Soci ties, which was his' Bill, though the present Bill was not, he did then introduce the names of those socities. The present Bill enacted, that the Associations, to which it referred, should be illegal, though no antecedent delegation could be proved to have taken place. But if it could be shewn that they had as sumed a representative character—that they had not only done that, but proceeded to tax the people of the country ;• if they also exercised a controul over the administration of justice, which was a thing not to be tolerated in any country—if that or any other such body, assumed so great an influence over six millions of people, let the House only reflect what the consequence must be, and especially in such a country as Ireland.—( Hear, hear!)—lf it was done by the Catholics, the same might be done by the Protestants, and what justice could any individual hope to obtain ? With respect to the pe tition, this Act proceeded to legislate upon a general prin ciple, and the general rule in such cases was, that no man could be heard upon petition, unl ess i n cases here his own particular interests were affected. If he was asked whether there were not exceptions to this rule, he would say that he believed there were many, but it was always at the discretion of Parliament whether they would preserve the rule, or act on the exception. Cases might be put in which Bills, on the demand of extraordinary exigency, had passed in the course of one day; which would subject the parties to the greatest possible punishment, if net justified by the necessity of the occasion. This was a departure from the usual practice of the Constitu tion, but not of precedent sufficient to overthrow it, and it would be easy to suppose a situation in which much danger would result from allowing the process of delibera tion to go on, and the measure itself might come too late to remedy the evil against which it was directed. lf the general measure applied to the•proceedings of the Roman Catholic As sociation, it would put an end to them. If it did not apply, they might go On, Acting upon the general rule, he weuld say, that it was necessary the Bill should pass, without hearing the petitioners. If it affected them, it could only atlect them because they had done what they ought not to have done.— (Hear, hear !)—IIe would say, if the preamble could be proved, if societies were formed, so as to evade t'ee operation - Of the Convention Act, they were bound to pass the Bill, and to pass it, as far us he could judge, without any - prelirnini,fy in vestigation. Lord HOLLAND said, he not only believedehat this'evas not the Noble Earl's Bill, but very strongly suspected that he had never read it. He (Lord Holland)had heard with con sternation the assertion of the Noble and Learned Earl that the existence of the Catholic Association might be according to law in Ireland, but that it was not according to law in Eng land. But the Noble and 'Learned Lord afterwards explained himself by adding that the Catholic Association attempted to overrule Parliament. But if they did so, Parliament had as much power in the one country as the other, and why did they not proceed by some other course than iet of legisla tion. Upon the argument respecting the hearing of Counsel he wished to say a few words. All the declamation of the Noble Earl opposite (Lord Liverpool) about vetting a precedent which would admit other parties to the bar, and interrupt the business of Parliament, had been put on one side by the cor rection of the Noble and Learned Lord, who told them that there were exceptions to the general rule, that parties had been occasionally heard • and yet not much inconvenience had re sulted front it, aril! their Lordships had proceeded with the business of Parliament as usual. But if the stream of pre cedents ran all one way, and that against hearing Counsel at their Lordships' Bar ; he should say, that even then they ought to take the plain, direct, and honest course, and hear these petitioners before they were condemned and punished...- He cared nothing for precedents in opposition to principle, but if he were to use them for the present argument, he could spew, that whatever they might be in that, or the other House, in the Parliament of Ireland, the stream of precedents ran all in favour of hearing the petitioners. Without detaining the House while he went into the detail of those precedents, he would merely state that Sir Theobald Butler, Counsellor Malone, and Sir Stephen Rice, were heard by the Parliament of Ireland against the very penal laws which this Catholic As sociation were endeavouring to get repealed, and in support of the treaty of Limerick. He thought the Noble and Learned Lord was entitled to credit for stating that he wished the name of the Catholic Association had been mentioned in the bill. For the Noble Earl opposite (Lord Liverpool) he fell, as the Noble Earl knew, great private friendship, and high respect tbber incapablepri a te of c a h n a y r ee t meane a r a nd conduct, rt fi artifice. But w tt h l e i cyh weree h believed ovyy he must protest against the argument that they were not to- be deal ing with the interests and rights of millions and io n tn. fi l i cit l eo .s etr , rye si a t il t ils . hefted because the Catholic Association were not named in the bill. Either this was good for the Noble Earl's arpnient, or it was not. And if it was, why did lie call upon their Lord ships to legislate upon the notoriety of the proceedings of that body ? He (Lord Holland) professed to entertain a high opi nion of the talents and learning of the Learned Gentleman who would in all probability have appeared at the bar on behalf of the people of Ireland, and he thought it possible that the con siderable talent and eloquence which he.possessed might have had some influence on their Lordship? minds. But if he pos sessed the genius of that orator whose-eloquence shook Greece to the centre and the worst designs' that could be imputed.tte him, not heelquence of a Demosthenea, with the intentie e e h r_ a Cataline, could enable hum to do so much harm to Tefselves racter of Parliament, as they were inflicting p b p a a r r t u i a n l i a P n r ti d s and le by the passing . of this bill. He declared tha u t" incendiary in Ireland, and wished to deluge ti; i 3 e t r tot9ry, he bleod, and to revive all the worst scenes f s in h s o u u l l t d eti rejoice p o in n a b l e l in t e sent gre a a itionour he called upon &mania) justice, and upon every feelizig , o r of the petitioners. If their Lordships not to refuse the P ra n ' eA sure, let them at !cast impress the people of Ireland with ouv _ ; an, .et tueni not fur they were determined to pass the in easy, indulgent, kind, and S ilerterfuge of its being a gene belief that they Were gene tify themselves behind the 5 0 e depriving that people of the sal measure, for the Pup tocondemned before-they were to be c t w p a r y i n from pes Earl DA R N LEY P uP were bound to comply with it before h ti , e a st rd right freemen —e ° said that their Lo;treldPisn rted the prayer of the petition, and passing the Bill. He trusted the they could be ie.' digen t when the real interests of the empire ti me ' was not tar