The Sun. — London, England, 1856-07-15 00:00:00

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[53; neW aew do., ply very 53• new w do., 4 1 demand. ;a in this ied with its day. previous ontinues in this holders• sales ad- for tho trier in fa- I rates. the high is. The I. Fine and the Ipon the ) months SocietY it it will lents, Pg 1 attend' - ROYAL' COMMISSION. The Royal assent was given by commission to the following bills :—Exchequer Bills (4,000,0001.), Small Debts Imprisonment Act Amendment (Scotland), Joint- Stock Companies Procedure before Justices (Scotland), Distillation from Rice, Magdalen Hospital (Bath), En dowed Schools at Moulton, Grand Juries, Turnpike Acts Continuance, Advowsons' Militia Ballot Sus pension, West London and Crystal. Palace Rail way, Bagnaletown and Wexford Railway, Mon mouth Roads, Bournemouth Improvement and Pier, Morayshire Railway, Renfrewsbire Roads, Halifax and Huddersfield Roads, Edi n burgh Water, Salisbury , Branch Railway and Market House, Stockton and Dar lington, and Newcastle and Carlisle Union Railway, Epsom and Leatherhead Railway, Swansea Vale Rail way, Lewes, Eastbourne, and Hailsham Roads, Con way and Llandudno Road, West of Fife Mineral Rail way, Maypole and Girvan Railway, Forest of Dean Central Railway, Ceylon Railway, and Butterwick's Estate. The Royal Commissioners were the Lord Chancellor, the Earl of Harrowby, and the Duke of Argyll. Petitions against the Parochial Schools (Scotland) Bill, frona,various parts of Scotland, were presented by the Duke 'of Buccleuch, the Duke of Montrose, and the Earl of Haddington. THE AFFAIRS OF ITALY. Lord LYNDHURST then rose, pursuant to notice, to call tattention to theaffairs of Italy. He said—l have for some time sought information from my noble friend opposite on this subject, but my applications have been uniformly refused, and I regret to say that we do not very often succeed in obtaining information, or in pro curing papers to be laid before the British Parliament, until they cease to be useful, and have no longer any in terest. Happily however in this case the sources of infor mation are abundant. Deplorable indeed is the situation of Italy. Every man must deeply sympathise with the condition of that unfortunate country. When my noble friend first furnished the protocol of the Bth of Apt il, the world was taken by surprise. Italy expected great and important advantages. I regret to say that these hoPes and expectations have been completely disappointed. I have often questioned within myself the policy of that publication, unless the governments of France and Eng land intended to follow it up, not by a mere inter change of diplomatic notes, but by other measures. For, my lords, it is impossible that men can continue to be under a foreign military tyranny without being eager to break the chain which binds them ; and to raise ex pectations and hopes in those persons, and afterwards to disappoint those hopes, will in all probability end in a larneettble state of things. I need hardly add, that of all military tyrannies, that of Austria is the most galling and the most odious to the people of the country. ' In deed it is not in Italy alone that we have had experience of military occupation by Austrian troops. We have had experience of it in the Danubian Piincipalities. Austrian troops took possession of that country profes -1 sedly as friends, in virtue of a treaty with the sovereign of the country. One would have supposed that, under such circumstances, they would have maintained the most strict discipline—that they would have abstained from all violence, from all injury to the inhabitants ; and if by accident injury or violence should be,conamitted, that it would meet with speedy redress. Unfortunately, however, during their occupation they took a different course, and I, think I am justified, from the inform doe I have received, in saying that the Russians were more humane and merciful than the Austrians. I say this, looking at the conduct of the Austrians in the most favourable light; but I have seen so much of the evi dence, founded on official documents, that I am satisfied the representation lam making is perfectly correct. By the treaty of Vienna the limits of the Abstrian power in Italy were strictly defined. They have passed those bounds—they have spread themselves over the Legations, and have taken possession by a military force of the Duchy of Parma. Ido not mean to enter into the ques tion how far the original entry into the Legations was illegal, or how farit was justified by disturbances in that country, or by the invitation of the government. Those things I pass over. They are well worthy of considera tion, but they would take me from my present object. What I wish to point your attention to is this, that from the time they passed the frontiers seven years have elapsed. For seven years they have kept possession of those terri tories, and not only ruled them, but they have placed them in a state of siege, under martial law, during the whole of that period. When is this to cease ? What termination is to be put to this state of things ? I ask this of my noble friend opposite. The short answer that I have heard returned from the Austrian Government is this :—" When we can leave the country without danger of insurrection we will do so." Now, mark the course of things. A bad government produces dissatisfaction, dis turbance, possibly insurrection. That ends in the inva sion of a military force. The possession by the military force continues and increases dissatisfaction, so that prac tically it is rendered impossible ever to remove the troops, condition neroef that sad, according to that argument, the occupation of these c l i h n a t t ry ar t e we toaytthe districts by a military force can have no termination. being n o unfortunateremedy, the suggestion of my noble friend opposite to e -th suggestion which also, I think, proceeded from a pre! I ceding government—as to the mode by which this evil might be terminated. The plan is this : establish a satis factory government —satisfactory to the people; establish also a national corps, for the purpose of keeping the peace, and then you may recal your army, but till that is accomplished it is impossible to do so. Now all this is very plausible and specious, but this cannot be done without the consent of Austria. Will she consent to it ? Will Austria consent voluntarily ? and; if she will not consent by her own voluntary act, will she consent by the pressure of the Western Powers ? Those must be credulous indeed who suppose that Austria will volun tarily give up possession of this district. It is said some times that the inconvenience of her position is such that she will by her own act withdraw ; but the inconvenience must be of a nature much more striking than anything I can conceive of to lead her to withdraw her troops. I think, therefore, as far as relates to a voluntary act it is altogether hopeless, but she may possibly yield to the pressure of France and England. I looked forward to that state of things with the anticipation of agreeable results. I hoped the pressure would be such as to accomplish the object I had in view. I do not mean by that the force of arms, but I mean by the moral effect which would be produced by that pressure ; but I may be permitted to say that, though I was somewhat sanguine as to the intentions of France and England, circumstances have occurred, symptoms have appeared of such a nature and character as to lead ale to entertain very serious doubts whether anything will be done; not that there is any doubt with regard to England, hut there are circumstances in the situation of France which lead me to doubt whether she has at this time the disposition cordially to co-operate ; so that al though I do not absolutely despair of the state of Italy, yet 1 confess I feel very great anxiety and great distrust. Nry noble friend, in the document to which I have re ferred, speaks of the grievous no toriety of the tyrannical proceedings of the government of Naples. Nothing can exceed the infamy of those proceedings. I cannot at tempt to describe the policy and the conduct of that go vernment, because no terms that I can make use of can by possibility impress your minds with the reality of the evils which the subjects of that Government suffer under. A minute detail of circumstances of the most ex traordinary kind alone could impress your minds with a distinct and accurate notion of the state of that country. I must leave this to the general impression of what you have read and heard. I refer your lordships to a publi: cation which I referred to on a former occasion by a right hon. friend of mine. the member for the TTniversity sf Oxford. That publication was circulated extensively throughout the continent of Europe. It went through various editions. It created a most extraordinary im pression ; it led to great inquiry. An official answer was returned to its issued by the Government of Naples. I do not know how many of your lordships have read that answer, but so far from refuting the facts to which I have referred, the answer confirms them. That uuhli cation —I Strike out everything but what fell under the observation of the author himself—speaks . of conduct on the part of the Government to mark the infamy of which is beyond any expression I can make use of. But it may possibly be said these occurrences took place four or - five years ago. - Great altera tions may have taken place since then, great changes, great improvements. So far from there being any change, the same system has continued from that period down to the present. More secrecy is observed, and there is more dissatisfaction ; but there is the same infamous-system of tyranny and oppression. It may be suggested that a great change has taken place with regard to the trials that are now going on. But the political trials that are now going on are the counter part of those which are described by the right hon. gentleman to whom I have referred as being carried on in disregard of every principle of justice and every feel ing of right. Persons are suborned to be witnesses against their will, subjected to puniehmentnnless they give false evidence. I cannot go through the details. Your lordships must have read them, steel have seen that a greater violation of right and principle perhaps never existed in the history of the world. But what makes t' e case still worse, if it can be worse, is, that it is founded on no- law, not even the law of an arbi trary. Governme it. The constitution of Naples was 'sworn to by the King. It has never been revoked ; it is at this moment the law of the country ; its obligations are enforced. Everything that has been done is in open defiance of the law. The infamy of that government is of a most grievous charac ter. I appeal to my noble friend to confirm what I state as so the course which has been pursued, and with re gsrd to whi c h I am d es i rous of hearing some explana tion. regardMynotoblethaftriegnodvertnomldenuts to on which h f i o o r h al l e former refer,occasion, that with it was a general rule that one state ought not to inter fere in the internal transactions of another, but that there are eases in which it is not only right to do away with that rule, but which make it the bounden duty of foreign governments so to interfere - and if ever there was such a case; that case is the case of Naples. What has been the c terse which my noble friend has pursued It is now three months and more since the trtaty o. peace has been signed, soon after which a note was ad dressed to the King of Naples. When I asked my no ble friend if any answer had been received to the THE SUN, LONDON, TITESDAY EVENING-; JUILAY 15, 1856: LATEST NEWS. TOTAL EVACUATION OF THE CRIMEA. The following telegraphic message has this day been received at the Admiralty from Admiral Grey, at Constantinople, 14th July, 1856 : " Banshee has arrived, with Admiral Fremantle. Every person belonging to the army had embarked, and all the ships had sailed from the Crimea on Saturday evening, except Leander and Gladiator. " Gale has been blowing strong from the south west for the last three days." BERLIN, JULY 12. The Grand Duke Michael of Russia has been betrothed at Wildbad to Princesa Cecily, youngest sister of the Prince Regent of Baden. MARSEILLES, MONDAY. The Sinai has arrived with advices from Con stantinople of the 7th, and from the Crimea of the sth inst. The English steam-frigate Valorous, which left Kamiesh on the 2d, has arrived with General 'Windham, his staff, and 140 English military passengers. The frigate Canada has also come in from the Crimea. MADRID, MONDAY. Espartero has tendered his resignation, and was about to leave for Logrono. General O'Donnell is appointed President of the Council ; Rio Rosas, Minister of the Interior; Rosde Olano, Marine ; Pastor Diaz, Foreign Af fairs ; and Cantero, Finance. it was thought that General O'Donnell would disarm the National Guard. The Gazette publishes a new law on the doing away with the sinking fund. In several towns of Badajoz and Estramadura disorders have broken out and been put down. The cholera still continues to prevail in Seville, but has not appeared at Cadiz, as was reported. FRANCE• PARIS, MONDAY. The Moniteur publishes a decree, founded on a report from the Minister of Marine, giving an al ranee to sail ors w h o s h a ll have served for more dance six years in the imperial navy in addition to half -p ay to w hi c h they may be entitled. T here is a repor t curren t in high quarters, that the death of M. Fortoul will produce a division of the Ministerial Departments. It is said that a dignitary of the Catholic Church will be made Minister of Worship, and that Public Instruction will be a separate department. "For some days past," says the Semaphore of " workmen have been employed in the Aild es des Ca urines and n. Meilha in arranging the t a bl es for the grand banquet to be given by the town to Marshal Pelissier and, the troops who accompany him on his return. The arrival of the Marshal will, it is expected, take place between the 18 th and 20th inst." The English transport Birkenhead, which left K.amiesh at the latter end of June with 200 men and 20 officers of the 40th regiment and of the Light Dragoors of the Imperial Guard, together with the horses of the latter, was obliged from !ant of water to put into Cagliari, in the island of Sardinia. There Colonel Gozani di Treville, of 'the Sardinian army, commanding the place, and the officers of the 7th Piedmontese regiment, gave a most cordial reception to the French officers, and after showing them the principal military establish laleets, entertained them at a grand banquet. "A lett er f rom G oree o f June 27," says the -rays, "announces an important fact for the French Settlements at Senegal. Mohammed-el-Aabib, King of th e Trarzas, who has always been worsted in the Various expeditions which the French have directed. against him, has just sued for peace: The submis sion of the Trarzas will insure to the French the - tranquil possession of the countries situated to the north of the Senegal." BOURSE, July 14.—The following were the last 'quotations : _ End of Month. —f. —o. 71 40 Cash. fr. a. ii per Cents 94 - 3 per Cents 7l 10 New Loan 7l 10 tank Sh ares 4,150 Roman Credit Mobilier 1,557 50 Austrian p Ilelgian Fives ...... .. 98 Spanish Threes Piedraonte se (s) . ..... HOMO Debt ...."." RAILWAYS—YOB CASK. fr. C if. c. thl eana . .... ortlwrn Lyons .......... _ .„, 1,440 --- New Ditto Mediterranean 1,835 Grand Central Lyons Geneva BO7 50 Teste Ce tte .................. 772 50 Austrian Coro. 865 A lett er from Vienna of the 10th, in the German Journal of Frankfort, says :—" Count Buol has renounced his idea of passing part of the summer in the country, in consequence of the multiplicity of business, Count Strogonoff, attached to the bYtuur,,,sn Emb assy ak Vienna, has left for St. Peters- The same letter says :—‘‘ It appears from the investigation instituted by the orders of the Empero r of Austria into the affair of Giurgevo, that it is the captain of the Austrian vessel who was most culpable in the matter, for no regulation or law exists authorising an Austrian officer to Punish a f ore i gn soldier bcause he refused to pay him military honours. As soon as Gen. Coronini heard of the decision of the commission, he imme diately ordered the captain of the vessel to be brought before a court-martial." A letter dated Vienna, July 9, says—Prince Petrulla, the Neapolitian Minister has recently had several conferences with Count Buol, and it has transpired that the King of Naples is not more in clined to attend to the counsels of Austria than to the reinOnstrances of the Western Powers. It has been stated by some of the foreign papers that the Neapolitan Government is encouraged by Austria to resist the demands made by England and Prance ; but such is not the case. The Imperial Cabinet, is of opinion that the Western Powers have no right to force the King of Naples to make any internal changes ; but it is a patent fact that it has given his Majesty more good advice than has proved palatable. PRUSSIA. A letter fr om B er li n the Cologne G aze tt e says : " The journey of Queen Victoria to this capital in the month of September become 3 more and more Probable, although no t y e t d e fi n i t i ve l y d ec i ded on. The Princess Royal, in conformity with etiquette, will not accompany the Queen." TURKEY. CONSTANTINOPLE, July 3.—Aali Pasha has again resumed his functions as Grand Vizier, and liehmed K epres li , t h e K aimakan, his former post as President of the Tanziniat. Thus things re main for the present. A new feature has shown itself in the question of the Principalities. The project of the removal of the Prince, and the appointment of Alexander Ghika and M. Balch as Kaimakans for Wal lachia and Moldavia, was too favourable to the wishes of the Principalities, or rather too unfavourable to interests which have strong supporters in the Turkish Ministry, to pass without opposition. This opposition has shown itself. The idea of the nomination of Kaimakans is still kept up, but the persons proposed in the first instance for the post have been changed, and M. Jean Mario, the present iNliniAer of the Inte rior, is proposed for Wallachia. No objection is raised against M. Balch for 'Moldavia. ROYAL SURREY GARDENS.—The grand inauguration festival for the opening of the colossal concert-hall took place this afternoon. The proceedings commenced at 2 o'clock by the performance of the national anthem by a chorus of up wards of 1,000 voices, the solo parts being 7, sung by M a d ame M a d a me Clare Novello, ' - ' 4o arne Rudersdnrff, Miss Dolby, Mr. Sims Reeves, and Mx. Weiss. The effect produced was magnificent in the extreme. At the termination of the anthem the old hundredth psalm was sung under the direction of Dr. Wesley ; and Handel's oratorio, "The Messiah," was also to be performed. The hour at which the festival )I nmenced precludes giving a lengthened Lotice to-day. The attendance of company was exceedingly great, and the appearmce of the new yousic•liall, crowded with a brilliant and fashionable ni , l.ence, was of surpassing I,4'andeur. The arrangements for the accommodation nt the company were complete and although a much 1 a gsr company assembled than had been calculated upon, not the least inconvenience was occasioned to any person resent. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. 11.0IISE OF LORDS—(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack shortly before five o'clock. i note--I beg your lorJships to mark the nature of the explanation and the answer which I received. It wag said that the King of Naples had un dertaken a. journey to a place some few miles from his metropolis, and that ha had not been able to tend an answer. On a subject so grave and so important, such a reply was mere trifling, a mockery, and an insult. It was not very unlike the course which had been pur sued with regard to an amnesty, to Which I directed the attention of my noble friend the other night. lam told, and uy noble friend will let ine know if I am right, that within the last two or three days an answer has been received from the King of Naples. Am I right in that stateinent ? (Lord Clarendon intimated assent.) I see that ivy noble friend 'assents. I thank him for doing so, as that will lead to another question — (" hear, hear," and laughter)—and that is, is that answer satis factory ? (Hear, hear.) lam told that it is extremely the reverse. I ant told, in the first place, that the King of Naples denies the right of this country to interfere in the affairs of his kingdom, and not only that, but that he positively refuses to give any explanation or reply to the remonstrance addressed to him. I ask my noble friend if that is in substance the answer to the important communication made to the King of Naples ? My noble friend makes no sign. I ask him if he will lay the papers on the table in the course of the discussion this evening, so that we may have an opportunity of seeing the nature of that communication ? There is one thing that strikes me as singular. There is no country more open to the power of England than the kingdom of Naples. If the Government of Naples has set at de fiance our remonstrances, what is the interpretation I am to put on that fact I I can draW but one conclusion, and that is that there is a feeling in Naples that there is some backwardness and luke warmness on the part of France to co-operate with us-to attain the objects we have in view. This, then, is the state to which we are reduced ; that we threaten a foreign Government, de- Glaring that its conduct is infarnons and atrocious, and that we require it to be changed ; they refuse to liAten to our rern'nstrances, and we sit quietly down and take no further. steps. What, tben, has become of the power and the prestige of England ? (Hear, hear.) There is another subject to which I wish to direct the attention of your lordships. I mean the occupation of a great part of Italy by Austria. That bite continued for seven years, and the country so occupied is placed in a state of siege and under martial law. I need not in an assembly of Englishmen dilate on such a state of things, as a country occupied by foreign military forces. Of all the instruments of arbitrary power the most powerful is the exercise of arbitrary imprisonment. In Italy, upon bare suspicion, numbers of persons are thrown into prison. When we talk of prisons, we, as Englishmen, have little idea of what an Italian prison is. We form a notion of a well-regulated, well-ventilated establishment, visited by magistrates, and placed under the most careful and responsible superintendence. But in Italy prisons are nothing better than loathsome dun geons, and it is in these that men of birth and education are imprisoned, on mere suspicion, as if they were the worst malefactors. Such is the state ofltaly. Occaionally to be sure, there is a show of trial; but what species of trial is adopted ? The trial is conducted by military tribunals, unaccompanied by any form or rule of law, and regulated only by the directions of those who con duct the proileedings. What is the result? The result is, Jam told, thatsince the Austrians have been in possession of the Legations 200 persons have been shot and 2,000 have been eeht into exile. There isanother country of Italy which has also attracted much attention=4 allude to Parma. There has been a great increase to the military force of Austria in that duchy. Piacenza was originally assigned as the plaoefor the armed occupation of Austria, but that place: has long become much too small to hold the forces she has sent into that duchy. A contest has arisen between these invaders and the government of that country. The government insisted that accused per eons should have their trials before the ordinary tribu nals. What say the Austrians? They say that these per. sons shall be tried by courts-martial, composed of fo reigners ; and which party will obtain the verdict it is impossible to say. Every one who is attached to the prin ciples of freedom. and fair dealing, and of justice, must wish that all such persons should be tried by th e ordi nary tri iunals. But it is a melancholy feet that before these transactions occurred the Austrians had seized a great many of the persons in question, and transferred them to the dungeons of Austria, there to lie until they should be tried by military tribunals, While such is the state of things in Italy it is the duty of the Government of this country to do all they can to support and assist those peoples; and yet, although this contest has been going on for a long time, it is only a few days ago since our ambassador at Florence arrived at Parma. • Whe ther any• great advantage will be derived from his pre sence I will not pretend to say ; but I can only say that if it is intenchd.that he shall give his support to the people of the duchy against the Austrians,. it is also rumoured that he is very much under the influence of Austria. I now come to another part of the subject— I allude to the kingdom of Sardinia. Every English man must feel, the greatest possible interest in the well-being and prosperity of that country. We have be come united by a community of institutions and by a brotherhood in the great struggle in which we have recently been engaged. It has been supposed or assumed that Italy is not fitted for constitutional - government. The state of Sardinia is a striking instance of the errone ousness of that doctrine. That state alone struggling against the greatest difficulties has succeeded in esta blishing constitutional government, and in preserving it by the exercise of great firmness, moderation, and pa tience ; and I am sure that your lordships must all feel anxious that nothing should happen to impair the advan tages, which she derives from that constitution. No one can, however, look on the state of things in Sardinia without the greatest anxiety. The Government of that t subverto n c wr o ei; s u ct hst n a _ bh r yayo hatred, that s ilLdaeio regardedeGmbmyob empire rrArdreynu Government i erf t inA h t At jealousy iwywuotsbhu tu considers.an d a er thatio n s , almost a r di n ia holds out'nclangerous exampl il e indiag to .bew the neighbouring die h which h e adoptedcv o e r u wy l t tend h g constitu tional tr government parties of opposite opinioas will be found, and in Turin there are, beside the sup porters of the constitution, the radical party, the ultra montane party and the most powerful and active of all, the priesthood. These parties are all combined in a for midable opposition to the Government. Notwithstand ing this, the great body of the people of the country are happy as they are, and give their support to the Govern ment. But the danger of Sardinia is not confined to the intrigues of Austria in Piedmont, but there are other dangers with which she has to contend. The least ac cident might cause circumstances to arise which might bring destruction upon Piedmont. There are great armies on the frontier which are being daily augme n t e d ; and this has caused Piedmont to keep up armies larger and more expensive than she can well afford to support, read she is obliged to press hard on her finances to main tain armies to defend themselves against the multitudi nous armies which surround her. I would impress upon the Government the necessity of giving the strongest moral support to the Government of Pied• mont—(heir)—if the necessity for any, such emergency should arise, of giving to that Government material support. (" Hear, hear," and cheers.) We never can desert that country without a violation of duty. Allow me to point out that there is the most bitter feeling in Austria against Piedmont. Such is the littleness of the feeling that if it was a contest between women, I should say that it was spite. (" Hear, hear," and laughter.) If Your lordships will listen to me; will give you a very plain history of the state of things in the Milanese. By the law of that country every subject can, with the consent of the Government, cast off his allegiance, can quit the country, and become in every respect a foreigner, and, like every other foreigner, is allowed to hold property in the country. After certain disturbances in Milan, many persons, entirely uncon nected with the disturbances, yet finding their residence there uncomfortable, availed themselves of the general licence to quit the country ; but, being warned, every one of them obtained a special permission. Most of them went to Piedmont, became subjects of the Sar dinian Government, were naturalised, and obtained all the rights of citizenship in that country, and many of them became members of the assembly. In con sequence of some suspicion which attached to them, the 'property of those persons in -Milan was seques trated. No explanation was given as to the cause, but the sequestration has continued, and that in spite of the continual and formal remonstrances of the Government of Piedmont. Having thus run through and stated these different facts, let me now ask what hope have the friends of Italy for her ? I think it right to say that I am of opinion that there ought to be no secret designs, no attempts at insurrection, that we must abandon for the present any notion of a united Italy ; and there must be no revolutionary movements. I be lieve that at present a united Italy is an impracticable scheme. A revolutionary movement would be crushed by the disciplined bands of Austria. Such is theadvice which ought to be given by the real friends of Italy. I am told that many well informed men in Italy entertain the most moderate views ; they do not wish for any change in the forms of governments, but they wish to obtain, and they entitleda(tiraceee,ai and a firm anti Gvite them oob a tai obtain, an administration of jell-. honest administration of civil affairs. that, and I believe that the great th T e us peopleeY ma jority of the Italians will be content. It should be recol lected that when the French, in 13C,6, entered the Le gations they established the French code o f l a ws, and a f a ir and equitable administration of civil affairs ; and the people were content, prosperous, and happy. We know that in when were Leopold reigned aud u under s happy. Sardinia is prosperou s an d h a ppy. W e k no w, Now,tcli e r a fo ts r o e yo , :t w e h m at will satisfy the Italians. I advise them, therefore, not to attempt to disturb the form of govern ment in their different states, but by all moral means to seek to obtain an impartial administration of justice, and a good and regular administration of civil affairs. There is only one way, however, in which this can be obtained, and by that means it can be obtained with facility. It must be done by the cordial co-operation of France and England.. (Hear, hear.) Whether that co-operation will be obtained I will not undertake to sa y, If such a co - operation does occur, it will produce the happiness hthaaPtPiirslethseairrid onlythe prosperity of the It a li an p eo pl e ; hope. I trust that We shall have some explanation on this point from my noble friend, and some cause to think that such a hope may be cherished. The Austrian rule iu Italy is carried on only by means of her troops ; her only rule is that of force and cmreion ; her principle is that of military and not of civil government ; there is not one ray of liberality in her whole systetn. For such a system to exist in a fo reign country supported by foreign bayonets is 'intoler able. ,TleA isintolerable to the Italians there is abun dant end neerwhelininenevidence. I have thought it my duty to bring this interesting and impertant subject be fore your lordships, and the interest' I feel in it Must be my excuse for having brought it forward. (Cheers.) The Bail f CLARENDON—During the course of the last two or three years it has been often my disa greeable duty to meet etatsments on foreign questions which have been brought forward by my noble and learned friend. His satements are always so powerful and so lucid, that though my noble and learned friend says he is speaking in m irresponsible position, I, can• not help thinking thathe is in some degree responsible; and though your lordeaips are always most indulgent to those who sit on the ministerial benches with regard to the production of pipers, yet I never rise to fol low my noble and learned friend without a keen sense of the delicacy of my posit on. I feel this particularly now, for so much has fallen from my noble friend which is im portant, so great an interest is felt in this country in all that concerns Italy, so great is the desire to see her emerge from the position to which she has been reduced by had government, and that she should occupy the place among nations to which she would have a right as the consequence of judicious reforms, that I feel unusual regret that I am not able to afford all the information of which I am possessed, 07 to lay on the table any corres pondence which 'would snow what are the opinions of her Majesty's Government, and the . steps they have taken to secure a better state of things in that country. The correspondence is still incomplete, it is still going on, and it may, perhaps, be some little time before any expectation can be entertained of any result ? and there fore I can see nothing but injury to the negotiations now uoing on by the production of the correspondence. Their production must, among other things, put an end to our friendly communications with the powers which are joined with us. For we cannot im prove the condition of Italy by force, and we must en deavour to come to an understanding with the Govern ments from whom the improvement of the condition of Italy must proceed. Many of the facts alluded to by my noble and learned friend exhibit a state of things of long standing, .flagrant abuses of authority, which are the ne• cessary consequence of a corrupted and degraded society, which can only be remedied by the governing powers, and not solely by external pressure. I have endeavoured to collect all the information with regard to the state of Italy, and, separating it from all exaggeration and local colouring, I em compelled to admit the difficulty of bringing about a better state of things not only with re ference to the character of the Italians, but also with reference to the circumstances in which they are unfor tuna•ely placed. I was glad to hear the admission of nay noble and learned friend, that revolution, however it might be momentarily successful, would not lay the foundation of the future happiness and prosperity of Italy. I hope the people of Italy will be too sagacious to resort to means which will infallibly lead to ultimate N otjaing has been done by her Majesty's Go vernment to countenance revolution, because it would be both unjust and cruel to excite expectations which cannot be realised or which we ourselves are not pre pared to realise. For if we leadthe people of Italy to ex pect aid from us, we should be bound to fulfil that expec tation. Though I admit with my noble and learnedfriend that there are circumstances in which interference in the affairs of foreign states is not only justifiable but an ob- ligation which I hold to he as strong as any one can, yet I hold it to be the general rule that interference in the internal affairs of other states ought to be resorted to only on the clearest grounds, and as the last resource. In this spirit, and without any desire of promoting revolution, or exciting false hopes, and with the view of laying the foundations of reforms in the governments of Italy, and causing the evacuation of that country by foreign troops the matter was brought before the congress of Paris, and it was thought that the initiative having been taken by the plenipotentiary of France was a proof that the Government of France desired to withdraw the French troops from R one. I cannot but think with satisfaction that this question witabroug,ht before the congressof. Paris and this notwithstanding that it had been bitterly con demned in some quarters ; and I was sorry to hear my noble aid learned friend express his regret that the mat ter had been brought before thecongress unless measures of greater vigour had been adopted by the governments which were represented there. I ant told that we had no right to bring this matter before the congress at all;that it was an attack on the independence of the states that were not represented; that it was calculated to defeat the object in view, and that the representatives of the govern ments who brought it forward are responsible for all the agitation which has since arisen. Bull say that we were fairly entitled to bring this question forward, wheq all the great Powers of Europe were engaged in the consi deration of the connection between all the different coun tries of Europe. When we were considering the qUestion whether Turkey, Greece, and the Principalitiesshould not be relieved from the presence of foreign troops, it was impossible not to cast au eye on Italy, which had tor years been occupied by foreign troops without . any soffi oient pretext or justification. I will not enter any more than my noble and learned friend has done into the' causes which led to that occupation ; but we felt that the occupation of a country by foreign troops could only bejustified by urgent necessity, and that sufficient cause ought to be shown for it. But we also felt that such - a state of things could never arise except it may be more convenient for a sovereign to rely on foreign bayonets for support than t ) take trouble to render them inde pendent of that control by a beneficent rule, and the en couragement of reforms. That was theobject with which I brought this matter before the congress, and we have hal every reason to be satisfied with that course. I must here take the opportunity of adverting to the con duct of nay noble friend Count Cavour in the con gress. The conduct of Count Cavour, the represen• tative of a state the most deeply interested in the result of the discussion, was moderate and digni fied, and calculated well to • sustain the reputa tion he had gained in the service of his country ; for it is to him, more than to any other person, that Sardiniais indebted for the establishment of her constitutional liberty ; and he has done good-service to Italy by prov ing that Italians are not unfitted fur liberal institutions, and that those institutions may be employed by. them without any risk of their degenerating into excess. I feet the most entire reliance on the spirit by which Cohnt Cavour is actuated ; and I believe that the Austrian Government itself is not more opposed to insurrection in, Italy than he is,, or would du more to prevent it. : , It is true, as my noble friend has said, that three months have elapsed since that discussion in the congress took place, and that as yet there are no visible results from it But my noble friend must nut infer that nothing has been done, or that as much has not been done as could have been done in that time. I could have wished to be able to say that the result of the communication which has been made to, the Kieg of Naples has been satisfactory. But I cannot say that it has. It is impos sible that two governments can be inure at variance as to facts than her Majesty's Government and that of the King of Naples. Remonstrances have been made to the Kicg of Naples in the most friendly spirit, and we stated to hint that in our views the existing state of things was dangerous to the, stability of his throne as well as to the interests of his country. We speCially pointed out what my noble and learned friend has sug gested was one great difficulty, viz„ the establishment of a better administration of justice —we recommended a general amnesty for political offences, and such a sys tem of government as should rally round it the confi dence of the people—that systematic distrust and expul Rion without trial or proof of guilt and unjust persecution should cease—and, above all, that all per soue, irrespective of teeir political opinions, should have a sufficient guarantee and security for their personal liberty. (Hear.) Now, I think a bolder representation of our disatislaction at the existing state of. things could scarcely have been addressed by any Go vernment to another. (Hear, hear.) It is true that we last week received an answer to that repre sentation ; but not yet having any knowledge of the answer which has bean made known to the French Go vernment, not having yet been able to confer with the Government of the Emperor of the Frenchand I hope 1 shall not bring the Government of Prance under the censure of my noble and learned friend by saying that the Government is at this time absent from Paris, and therefore no answers can be given at the moment—. (hear and a laugh)—until we had a - communication with the French Government, and determined, in cenjunc tion with them, what is the course which under the aircumetances it may be necessary to pursue; I think it would be better not to lay upon the table the note we . have received from Naples, and to which my noble and learned friend has alluded. And withregaed.io the nature of the answer, I think I shall best perform my duty on this occasion by simply confining myself to the to be pro a whic ( h Hea bas r, h been e given a r .) general s tatement e n satisfactoryth at it i s impossiblenr less for ind ianynat answerindicative e f future improvement than esenta t t h ire n t . But, my lords, the q u e stion of reform in the Pontifical states, and the withdra wal of the f oreign armies from those states, has been for ced u p on t he consideration of tn our the powers principally interested in the matter, and has, I must say, been discussed in a manner and in a spirit that promises the most satisfactory results. And though my noble and learned friend may think me prejudiced in saying so, I firinly believe, that the Austrian Government does honestly desire to withdraw the troops from the Papal territories, and I believe also that the French Go vernment arc equally desirous to withdraw their troops. from those states ; and I further believe that that desire,. so far from meeting with any opposition, is shared in and approved by the Papal Goverutueut itself. If, then, it be true, as I have every reason to think it is, that that desire is sincere on the part of the three powers princi pally concerned, I cannot imagine that any very long time will elapse before it is carried into effect, and those precautions are taken whic h I am sure my noble and learned friend will admit to be necessary after so pro tracted a foreign occupation, in order to prevent a recur rence of those disasters which first occasioned that, occu pation, and which all must depl ore . (Hear.) But, my lords, those precautions b ein g take n , I see no reason why the Papa • l states should riot be evacuated with as little delay as possible, and with as l ittle mischief as took place in the case of Tuscany. ([dear, hear.) The events of 1848 bad left fatal reminiscences in Tuscany, and may have created some apprehension on the part of the go vernnient of that country ; hut I most say that it is much to the credit of the Grand Duke that he determined to rely for support up - in his own p eo p l e only. Accordingly • be requested the withdrawa l of the A ustrian troops, and, as your lordships must be aware, the last Austrian soldier has left the Tuscan territory without the slightest difficulty occurring.. (Hear, hear.) I see no reason why this should not serve as an example to be followed by all the Italian states. (Hear.) But the fact is that the experiment of confi din g in the Italian people has never been tried. Thoss excellent measures of reform which the present Pope inaugurated, and which were received with gratitude 'cor the people, were all swept away by the t orr ent of retolution w hi c h b ro k e ou t in 1848; consequently those measures have not had a fair trial. I hold in my hand—but I will not detain your lordships by reading it—the Pope's proclamation that preceded his return to Rome in 1849, in which the foundation of a better a dministration of the judicial sys tem is directly and completely laid down. I believe that if this part of the Pope's manifesto were carried into execution, everything which my noble and learned friend himself would require to insure the better ad ministration of justice would be accomplished. (Hear, hear.) But, as I have said, my lords, as yet the exhibi tion of confidence in the Italian people has never been attempted. There has never been tried a system of ad ministration founded on the policy of depending for secu- rity on the affections of the people, and the determina tion to promote their welfare. The policy hitherto adopted has always been the policy of fear, foundedspon the expectation of immediate revolution, without any attempt being made to analyse the cause of the fear, or whether the apprehensions entertained by the Go vernment are justified or not. But, my lords, this is not a natural state of things. It is not natural for men to re bel against their Government. Hatred of a Government that does all in its power to secure the welfare of its pee,- ple was never a national feeling. I am convinced that the people of Italy are as accessible to kindness as those of other countries. It will not be found that they have any objection to have their wrongs redressed, or that they are more difficult to govern than other people, if their rulers will but attempt the work of reform in good faith and in good earnest, and under a different sense of the responsibility which attaches to them thAn they have hitherto shown. Ido not know that any object of prac tical utility would be attained by any attempts to fol low my noble and learned friend further through the various topics touched upon in his speech. He has himself pointed out some of the great difficulties that must attend any interference on our part—he has stated in plain terms the difficulty we should have to encounter in acting alone in such a case, and he has also stated in plain terms why it is necessary that the pres sure should come froM France and England together ; and I believe that until we can apply that joint pressure in all its force we shall not obtain the result we all de sire. I can only add that the question of I , aly--the question of the amelioration of the condition of the Italian peoples-her Majesty's Government have as much at heart as the Parliament or the people of this country, and that in every way they can, by their good offices, by all the camel influence, and by all the efforts they can use, they will endeavour to effect its acC4mplishinent. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE denounced the po licy he understood to have been enunciated by his noble friend, that under no circumstances could the applica tion of force be justified in Italian affairs. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE (Lord Clarendon having left the house) intimated dissent. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE was happy to find that he had misunderstood the noble lord, and that it was admitted that circumstances might arise in which the 'application of actual force might become necessary. He trusted that no attempts would be made to excite revo lution. in Italy, which could only result in faction and bloodshed. When it was said that there must be no armed intervention, be wanted to know what it was that maintained the King of Naples on the throne at this moment? Was it not well known that if to-morrow there was an outbreak at Naples against the reigning monarch, an Austrian army would be brought to put it down ! He spoke without Government responsibility, and he might therefore speak openly. Let there be open speaking in the British Parliament, for the opinion expressed there, when open speaking was prohibited in every other country, might possibly haVe some weight. There was no reason, he thought, why they should not know the facts ' which had been reported to the Go vernment by our Minister at Panne. They ought to be informed of the grounds upon which Austria had taken military possession of that duchy, and held it in direct opposition to the treaty of 1815. There was nothing but military occupation almost throughout the whole land of Italy—foreign soldiers on the one hand, and brigands on the other. In regard to the state of the north of Italy we had a right to interfere, seeing that it affected the balance of power in Europe ; but he ad mitted the difficulty of doing so without the concurrence of the continental powers. His noble friend said all that was required in the I alien States was good government; but what hope was there ef good government while the foreign oocupation continued, seeing that the foreign troops were there to maintain bad government ? (Hear.) He trusted that the Parliament of England would make such a declaration of its sentiments as would prevent any doubt or delusion as to the determination of this country to exercise all her influence, and, if necessary, her power, to prevent the occupation by foreign armies of States that ought to be independent, for the purpose of maintaining tyrannieal governments which were a dis grace to the age. (Hear.) The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, after expressing his doubts of the practical utility "of continuing the discussion, remarked that in the momentary absence of his noble friend (Lord Clarendon)- he had ventured to interrupt the noble 'marquis With a sign of dissent, when he said that his noble friend had deClared th under no circumstances could interference by - force in the affairs of Italy be justified. He begged to remark that he con sidered the noble marquis bad been in - error as to what fell from his noble friend. His noble friend limited his statement to thie—that in the present state of things in reference to Italy, and in the present state of negotia tions, the application of force would be inexpedient, but his noble friend by no means laid it down as,an absolute rule that the affairs of Italy were in that seas. factory state that is was impossible under any circum stances force could be had recourse to. On the contrary, what his noble friend did say, concurring with the noble and learned lord at the table, was thatcircu instances might arise under which interference by force might not only be a right, but might absolutely become a duty. But before force was resorted t 9 every other means must be exhaust ed, and they must take care :to have with them such a general concurrence as would obviate any danger of a disturbance of the general peace orEurope. They should recollect, too, that they were, while discussing the pro priety of armed'interference, protesting against that in terference on the part of other powers. With regard to Parma there was, he understood, an ,intention to with draw the Austrian troops, and, in the case of Rome, it appeared that all parties were anxious to put an end to till foreign occupation. Under these circumstances,' he trusted the house would not allow themselves to be car ried away by their feelings so far as to commit any act that might occasion difficulties and embarrassment in carrying out that intention. The subject then dropped, REGISTRATION OF VOTERS (SCOTLAND) BILL This bill was read a third time and passed. -PAROCHIAL SCHOOLS (SCOTLAND) BILL. The house went into committee on this bill, and clauses to 11 inclusive were agreed to. On clause 12, The Duke of ARGYLL defended the bill, and depre cated the opposition of his noble friend opposite (the Duke of Buccleuch) who hal given notice of an amend ment, the object of which was to strike out this acd the two succeeding clauses. He said the bill was a cotnpro mise, had been approved of by the majority of the Scotch members of the House of Commons, and would afford ficilities for religious instruction, in which all Protestant dissenters might participate. He strongly urged upon their lordships to accept the bill as a final settlement. • The Duke of BErCdLEUCH then rose to move the omission of clausel2, declaring that he had heard nothing to alter hia opinion respecting the bill. If it had not been that the salaries of schoolmasters had been reduced one-third he believed that their lordships would never have heard of this bill. He maintained that the present school system of Scotland had the support and worked for the benefit of the country at large. ITnrier these cir cumstances, and with the concurrence of many persons whom he had consulted, he should move the omission of this clause. Lord PANMURE supported the clause. It it were expunged from the bill he believed that the other house would not accept the bill from their lordships' hands. Such he thought was not an advisable po,ition for that house to place itself in. He urged that though the main object of the bill was to obviate the necessity of the tak ing of religious tests by schoolmasters, the God-fearing character of the people of Scotland was such that they would scout any system of education in which religion did not play a most important part. The Earl of HADDINGTON added a few words in opposition to the clause. If the House of Commons de clined to receive the bill without this clause, upon that house and upon the Government the responsibility of the rejection would fall. The committee divided For the clause Against it 5O Majority The clause was accordingly struck out of the bill. Tile Duke of BUCCLEUCII moved an amendment in clause 13 by omitting a portion of it, and inserting words to require the schoolmasters to have a certificate from the in.pector of Lhe Privy Council, or a diploma of the Edu• cational Institute of Scotland ; but, alter some discus- sion, he, on the suggestion of the Duke of Argyll, agreed to withdraw the amendment, on the understanding that the clause should be amended on bringing up the report. The clause was then agreed to. Clause 14 was struck out. The other clauses were then agreed to. The Duke of ARGYLL said, before the house re sumed, that, after the alterations which had been made in the bill, it was no longer the bill of Government, and the noble duke must henceforth take charge of the bill. The Duke of BUCCLEUCH said the bill was brought in under the responsibility of Government, and they must not desert their own child. The house then resumed. The Oxford College Estates Bill passed through com mittee. The Aldershot Camp Bill, the Drainage (Ireland) Bill, the Grand Julies (Ireland) Bill, the Church Build ing Commission Bill, and the Dulwich College Bill, were severally read a third time, and passed. The Revenue Transfer of Charges. Bill, the Encumbered Estates (Ireland) Bill, and the Court of Chancery (Ire land) Bill, were severally read a second time. Their lordships then adjourned, at a quarter-past nine o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS.—(YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at 4 o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the Castle pouglas and Dumfries Railway were considered and agreed to. The Perth Burgh and Harbour Mil and the Boston, Sleaford, and Midland Counties Railway Bill were con sidered and ordered to be read a third time; MALT DUTY. Mr. BASS moved for returns of the number of bushels of malt brought to'charge in each of the three years end ing the sth or Ist of July, 1854-55, and 1856, as the years may sad on one or other of those days ; of the number of bushels of malt in stock on which additional duty was charged in May 1854, and the amount received therefrom ; of the number of bushels of malt in stock on the sth day of July 1856, and the amount to be returned thereon ; of the average price of barley for each of the three years before named ; of the amount in " old duty" charged on English hops for each of the before-named three years; and of the number of cwts. of foreign hops imported in each of the same three years.—Ordered. Mr. BLACK moved for a return of the number of bushels of malt in the hands of maltsters, brewers, vic tuallers, dealers, or in the hands of any other person, for which there has been claimed the repayment of the war duty of is. 31d. per bushel, according to the pre visions of the act of 19 and 20 Victoria, chap. 34, distinguishing the amount of money claimed by each class respectively.—Ordered. COLLECTORS' FINES. Mr. J. EWART moved for returns of all persons, with their names and occupations in full, on whom fines have been levied from the Ist day of January, 1850, to the 23d day of June, 1856, in the Prescot Division of the County Palatine of Lancaster, for refusing to act as Collectors or Assessors of Government Taxes.—Ordered. HYDE PARK. Mr. W. EWART inquired of the First Commissioner of Public Works whether it would not be possible by arrangement or compromise to throw open to the pub lic the ground now given up to private occupancy in the centre of Hyde Park,_ between the Humane Society'., Receiving-house near the Serpentine and the soldiers quarters in the Park ? Sir B. HALL said that Mr.. Stevenson had a life in terest in the house alluded to, and under such circum stances it was not intended during that gentleman's life to make any such arrangement. ST. JAMES'S PARK. Mr. HINDLEY wished to ask the hon. baronet whe thor it was intended to erect a bridge across the water, and if such was the case whether care would be taken to preserve the grass and walks ? Sir B. HALL said he understood that the House of Commons had ordered a suspension bridge to be erected across the water in St. James's-park. Such a site would be selected as was most convenient, and care would be takea to interfere as little as possible with the grass and walks. MR. JAMES SADLEIR Mr. ROERUCK gave notice that, on that day se'en night, he should move, unless Mr. Sadleir should in the interval surrender, that he be expelled from the house. COLLEGE OF PHYSICIANS. Mr. KINNAIRD asked whether it was the intention of the Government to grant a new charter of incorpora tion to the Royal College of Physicians of London ? Sir G. GREY said the subject of Eranting a new char ter to the College of Physicians had been for some time under consideration, but it bad been postponed from time tr) time in consequence of certain reforms in the medical .profession. Under these circumstances, there was no immediate intention of granting a new charter. JUNIOR OFFICERS OF THE ARMY. Sir J. GRAHAM wished to ask the Secretary at War a question, of which he had given him notice, namely, whether, in the reduction of officers of inferior grade in the army, any consideration would be given to those who had obtained their commissions in consequence of their proficiency at Sandhurst ? Mr. F. PEEL said the only safe principle in reducing the army was to diminish the number of junior officers. Some of those junior officers had obtained their commis sions for proficiency in their studies, others had pur chased them, and others had become entitled to them from the number of men furnished to the militia. Of course it would seem an injustice to deprive, those gen tlemen of their commissions, who had obtained them as the reward of studies at Sandhurst ; but it would be equally unjust to deprive senior officers of their com missions in favour of juniors. MAIN DRAINAGE OF THE METROPOLIS. I❑ reply to a question from. Mr. BUTLER in reference to the main drainage of the metropolis, on the rejec tion by the President of the Board of Works of the plan propounded by the Metropolitan Board of Works, Sir B. HALL said it was understood that the drainage of the metropolis was to be carried out on the data laid down by the Commissioners of Sewers in 1851, and, in accordance with the terms of the late act he called upon the Metropolitan Board of Works for their plans, &o. They were submitted to him, and he appointed Captain Birstall to examine them and the river and report thereon. That officer did so, and it was found that the plan propounded was in direct opposition to the terms of the act of Parliament of last session, that the point of discharge should be beyond the limits of the metropolitan area. In consequence of that he rejected the plan, but, at the same time, stated his readiness to consider any other plans that might be submitted to him for the drainage of the metropolis, in accordance with the terms of the act referred to. THE SADLEIR FRAUDS. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL for IRELAND asked the hon. and learned member for Dublin University if it was his intention at an early day to bring forwari that charge against the Attorney-General for Ireland, rela tive to the Sadleir frauds, which the Irish Master of the Rolls had intrusted to him, and in such a shape that he (the Attorney-General) could meet it i n hi s pl ace i n Par liament He called upon the house to back him in vindicating the honour of that house from the charge alleged against one of its members. (Hear, hear.) Mr. NAPIER said that he stated on a former occa sion that it was • for the honour of the house that the subject in question should be inquired into, and to that he still adhered. (Hear.) The hon. and learned gen tleman proceeded to address the house on the subject, when he was interrupted by Mr. ROEBUCK, who called the hon. and learned member to order. The SPEAKER said that the hon. and learned mem ber had a right to address any observations to the house in explanation of his former conduct. Mr. NAPIER continued, and said that, on a former occasion, he distinctly heard the Attorney-General for Ireland say that the Master of the Rolls in Ireland had broken his oath as a Privy Councillor. (Hear, hear.) Sir G. GREY rose to order—He could not allow such remarks to be marl,: in silence. He was present when the learned Attorney-General addressed the house, and he did not make use of the words attributed to him. Mr. NAPIER said he was satisfied the learned At torney-General did. (Hear, hear.) It was heard by other hon. members, and one assertion was as good as another. (Hear, and order.) Lord PALM ERSTON also rose to order. The prac tice of the house was to allow hon. members to refer to, and repeat, the former statements of an hon. member, but not to repeat the assurance of others what a member had said. (Hear, hear.) Mr. NAPIER resumed, and said this subject ought to be discussed without political feelings ; th 3 house ought to know all the circumstances with reference to the escape of James Sadleir from Dublin. The hon. and learned member again referred to certain CirClllll - connected with the subject, when The SPEAKER called him to order. Mr. NAPIER then proceeded to say he had been in duced to make certain statements in that house in con sequence of what had been said in Ireland relative to the Sadleir frauds. At present he had heard no defence from the •Attorney• General of his own conduct ; and the best way to settle the question in dispute would be to appoint a select com mittee to investigate the subject. (Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Napier) had no authority from the Master of the Rolls, to make any charge against the Attorney-General for Ireland, and he declined to take upon himself the office of accuser. (Loud cheers.) The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said he must adopt the only course now open to him, and that was at the evening sitting to-morrow to make a statement relative to this charge. (Cheers.) The subject then dropped. THE ROSINESS OF THE HOUSE. On the motion of Lord PALMERSTON the orders of the day were suspended, to enable Lord John Russell to bring forward his motion with reference to Italy. REVIEW AT ALDERSHOT. Lord PALMERSTON announced to the house that to-tnorrow he should move the adjournment of the house till Thursday, because, as her Majesty intended to re view about 14,000 troops at Aldershot on Wednes day, no doubt many hon. members would like to be present. His lordship then announced, amidst mach laughter, the arrangements that had been made for conveying the members and horses and carriages over the line with punctuality, and what had been done to insure lunohoon for hon. members at Aldershot. THE AFFAIRS OF ITALY. Lord J. RUSSLLI,—Sir,Irise to o bring forward the motion, of which I have given notice, for an "address for copies or extracts of any recent communications which have taken place between her Majesty's Government anti the Governments of Austria, Rome, and the kingdom of the Two Sicilies, relating to the affairs of Italy." I sub mit this motion without any wish to blame any part of the conduct of her Majesty's Government, or to press the mo tion should my noble friend at the head of the Govern ment think there would be any inconvenience at the pre sent moment in granting the papers to which it refers. But, the house will recollect that no discussion has taken place with respect to the affairs of Italy since we were in vited to agree to an address to her Majesty on the subject of the treaty of peace which had been concluded at Paris ; and the house will also recollect that, at the same time. protocols were on the table from which it appeared that the condition of Italy was one of the many important questions which engaged the attention of the plenipoten tiaries assembled in the Peace Conferences. Now, sir, the immediate purpose of my motion is to ask what has taken place in consequence of the intimations then given, and if —as I am given to understand, and as public rumour as serts—no satisfactory answers have been received to the communications made by the Government of her Majesty, and by that of the Emperor of the French, what are the in tentions of our Ministers with regard to their future policy? For, sir, I think I can show that, unless they be prepared to pursue the course upon which they then entered, and unless it be their intention to take some steps of seriousimport with respect to the affairs of Italy, it would be better for the people of that country, and better for the character of this house and the dignity of her Majesty, that Ministers should at once declare that they meant no more than to male friendly representations, and that, those friendly represen tations having remained without effect, it was not their in tention to proceed to any further consideration of the sub ject. (Hear.) Such a declaration would be better than the only other course which I could conceive—the repetition of ineffectual remonstrances, the record df useless notes, the continual denial of that which is asked by the Powers, to whom the representations of our Government have been addressed. (Hear.) Sir, I beg leave, in the first place to call the attention of the housis to the nature of , the state ments which were made at Paris. There may be those who would say that, the war with Russia having been happily concluded—all the Powers who were represented at Paris having agreed upon the terms of the pacification —it would have been better not to raise any new ques tion, but to be satisfied with the work which had bee done. That, sir, is not my complaint, nor do I com plain at all upon this subject ; but such was not the course which her Majesty's Government and her Majesty's ally, the Emperor of the French, thought it their duty to pursue. Count Walewski, who presided at the conferences, deemed it necessary to bring under the con sideration of the plenipotentiaries, on the Sth of April, other questions deeply interesting to Europe, some of them relating to the general laws which govern the relations of nations, others affecting the different States of Europe. He wished, as he said, to dispel " the clouds which are still seen looming on the political horizon before they become menacing." lam sorry to say, with regard to those clouds which hang over Italy, that, so far from having been dis pelled, they have become darker and darker—(hear)—and that unless some happy event takes place we will soon see them bursting into a storm. (Hear, hear.) Having made this preface, Count Walewski stated that the occupation of Rome by France and of the Roman States by Austria was an abnormal condition of things ; that it was one to which he wished to see an end put by France; and that he was sure the plenipotentiaries of Austria would participate in the same desire. He spoke likewise of the affairs of Naples, and regretted the misgovernment of that fair por tion of Italy. Count Walewski was followed by Lord Clarendon, in whose declarations we must take a still deeper interest, as he was the representative of her Majesty in the conferences. He stated that it was most desirable that troops should be removed from Rome and the Roman States. " For the well-being of the Pontifical States," he added, "as also for the interest of the sovereign authority of the Pope, it would therefore, in his opinion, be advantage ous to recommend the secularisation of the Government and the organisation of an administrative system in harmony with the spirit of the age, and having for its object the happiness of the people." He statad further— " That for the last eight years Bologna has beea in a state of siege, and that the rural districts are harassed by brigands. It may be hoped, he thinks, that by establishing in this part of the Roman States an adminiftrative and judicial system, at once secular and distinct, and that by organising there a na tional armed force, security and confidence would rapidly be restored." With respect to the Neapolitan Government he spoke in severer terms : " He is of opinion that it must doubtless be admitted in principle that no government has the right to interfere in the internal affairs of other states, but he considers there are cases in which the exception to this rule becomes equally a right and a duty. The Neapolitan Government seems to him to have conferred this right, and to have imposed this duty upon Europe; and, as the Governments represented in the Congress are all equally desirous to support the monarchical principle and to repel revolution, it is a duty to lift up the v , ,ice against a system which keeps up revolutionary ferment among the masses, instead of seeking to moderate it." He added—and these are supposed to be the very words cf Lord Clarendon— "We do not wish, he says, that peace should be disturbed, and there is no peace without justice; we ought, then, to make known to the King of Naples the wish of the Congress for the amelioration of his system of government—a wish which cannot remain without effect and require of him an amnesty in favour of the persons who have been condemned or who are imprisoned without trial for political offences," Count Buol, on the part of Austria, said something with regard to maritime law, and he expressed a very earnest wish to curb the !jeer° 3 of the press in every country wh re the press is free; but with regard to Italy, and the occupa tion of certain of the Italian States by Austrian troops, he declined to say a word, declaring that he had no instruc tions to express any opinion upon the point. Count Cavour afterwards expressed very strongly the wish of his Govern ment that the Austrian troops should be removed from the Legations, and ho stated especially that the occupation of Parma and the city of Placentia by Austrian troops was menacing to the independence of Sardinia. He matte also a distinction between the occupation by Austria of those countries and the occupation by France of Rome, stating that a separate and small corps occupying Rome at a distance from its own country was an object of much less apprehension and fear, and causen much less anxiety to the King of Sardinia, than the very large army which was maintained by Austria for the purpose of occu pying a great portion of Italy and of overawing the whole territory. That there is that distinction between the occu pation by Austria and the occupation by France I think cannot be denied. There are, however, other differences which may likewise be remarked on. The occupation of Rome by a small body of French soldiers may be repre sented as similar to au occupation which the British . Go vernment has frequently sanctioned—namely, an occupa tion solely for the protection of the person of the Sovereign. It must likewise be admitted that there was some truth in what was stated in a former debate by the hon. member for Dundalk—that Rowe was a place where adventurers from all parts of Italy would be apt to resort, and that the Government of the Pope might be endangered, therefore, not by the spontaneous eff or t s o f th e peopl of Rome, but by the intrigues and conspiracies of strangers who might resort in any numbers to that country. But, Sir, whatever those distinctions may be, it is, I think, a matter of very great importance to consider whether this occupation by foreign troops of a part of Italy is to continue. In the first place, I imagine that there is no instance resembling it in the recent history of Europe. The occupation of a State by foreign troops for the purpose of restoring order is a very modem practice, and in every case it has been stated to be temporary—it has been represented as being instituted for the purpose of re-establishing the usual relations between the Sovereign and his subjects, and when that object has been accomplished the foreign troops have been withdrawn. I can recollect no instance :fan occupation which has been prolonged for the length of time that the occupation of Roale and of the Legations has been continued. After the war of 1815—a war which raised all Europe to arms—when a million of troops were put in motion in order to depose Napoleon from the throne of France, and when 150,000,( 001. was spent by this country alone, it was considered suffi cient, in the first place, that an occupation of five years should be stipulated for, and that term was after wards reduced to three years. The occupation of Spain by France, when the Due ti'Angouleme marched out, was, I think, continued for barely three years. That occupation, however, provoked comment in this house. The very year after it took place, in 1824, I myself called the attention of the house to the subject, and Mr. Canning declared that he was convinced that no permanent occupation was intended. In the following year, at the end (Atha session, Mr. Can ning's attention was called to the subjeat by Lord Brougham. and Mr. Canning again declared that the occupation would not be long prolonged. But in this case we have au occu pation , which began in the year 1849, which has con tinued to the present moment ; and yet we do not hear on any part that the troops could be withdrawn without as much danger and discontent now, as it is said, as ex isted at the very commencement of that occupation. (Hear.) I am not going to argue to-night—because my question will chiefly be confined to the point of foreign occupation—whether the Government of Rome be a good Government or a bad one; but this I say, that if it be a good one there can be no need of foreign troops. (Hear, hear.) If, on the contrary, it be a bad Government, and that bad Governuient have been continued for seven years without amendment, then, I ask, what prospect is there that in seven or fourteen years hence that Government will be improved? (Hear, hear.) Sir, it is necessary in treating this subject to look at the declarations which were made by the two Powers who sent their troops to Rome and to the Legations in the year 1849. The House will then see how different were the declarations made at that time from those which are now made, and how little they justify the present occupation. Beginning with the French, I take, first, part of a despatch to M. De la Cour who watethen the French Minister at Vienna, and I find that M. Drouyn de Lhuys, writing on the 17th of April, 1849, says : " The Government of the Republic has resolved to send to Civita Vecchia a body of troops, commanded by General Ondinot. Our intention in deciding on this measure has been neither to impose on the Roman people a system of adminis tration which their free will would have rejected, nor to con strain the Pope to adopt, when he shall be recalled to the ex. ercise of his power, this or that system of Government. We thought—we more than ever think—that by the force of events —by the effect of the natural disposition of men's minds —the system of administration which the revolution of last November has established at Rome is destined soon to fall, and that the Roman people will place themselves again under the authority of the Sovereign Pontiff, provided they are se cured against the dangers of a reaction ; but we, neverthe less, think, and in this respect, especially, our language has never varied, that that authority will not take deep root, and can only strengthen itself against fresh storms by the help of institutions which may prevent the return of abuses, the reform of which Pius IN ;had with such generous zeal begun." Then. thedeclaration to the Pope, dated April 18th, says:— " The Pope must hasten to publish a manifesto, which, by guaranteeing to tho people liberal institutions, in conformity with their wishes, as well as with the necessities of the times, shall cause the overthrow of all resistance. . . What we desire is that the Pope, on returning to Rome, shall find him self in a position which, once satisfactory for himself and for his people, shall secure Italy and Europe from new commo tions, and shall not prejudice either the balance of power or the independence of the Italian States." In transmitting those documents to the Court of St. James's, the French Minister says, under date the 19th of April : " We doubt not that the British Government will duly appreciate a determination, the object of which is at once to maintain, as far as shall depend on us, the balance of power, to guarantee the independence of the Italian States, to secure to the Roman people a liberal and regular system of• administration, and to preserve them from the dangers of a blind reaction, 9,4 well as from the frenzy of anarchy." On the 29th of April Prince Schwarzenberg writes to Count Colloredo in the following terms : " The Government of the Emperor has sent orders to Mar shal Count Radetzky to send troops as well into Tuscany as into the Legations. In deciding upon this measure we have only complied with the demand which has been addressed to us to this effect on the part of the Grand Duke of Tuscany, as well as on the part of the Holy Father, the latter having at the same time applied for the armed intervention of France, Spain, and Naples. The object of our intervention is no other than the re-establishment of legitimate Governments and social order. Whenever this object shall have been attained -and thanks to the co-operation of the sound portion of the population we hope it will soon be so—our troops will retire." That, be it observed, was seven years ago. Now, it is im possible, I think to allow that the re-establishment of social order and the restoration of the Sovereign to his power can have occupied the whole of these seven years, unless there wore something so vicious in the system of administration —something so much requiring the reforms which Lord Clarendon has pointed out — that the Sovereigns thought it necessary to maintain the troops in the foreign territory which they occupied. And here there is one observation which I cannot help making, because I think it tends to show that even that occupation for a time was hardly ne cessary. Among the other States which were led by the great convulsions of 1818 to dispute the authority of their Sovereign and to proclaim a different form of government was Tuscany lastedTusny only two ;butinTuseay n the new form of govern ment mouths—during February and March In April the people of Florence, mindful of a long course of mild government, and recollecting the wise maxims and beneficent rule of Leopold, the grandfather of the pre sent Grand Duke of Tuscany, rose against their republi can rulers, and restored the monarchical government of the Grand Duke. Every great town in Tuscany, except Leghorn, acted upon that principle ; men of the most liberal charac 4 . - ,er—the men most trusted in Florence—were placed at the head of affairs, and the Grand Duke came back. If he had governed according to the constitution to which he himself had agreed, there seems to be no reason to believe that there would have been any outbreak. Un fortunately, however, no sooner had the commissaries of the Grand Duke taken possession of the helm of affairs: at Florence than an Austrian general announced that his corps was ordered into Tuscany. That corps remaitned there until the beginning of last year, and since it mare bed out there has been no disturbance. I cannot but beli ~ eve that if the rulers of Italy, not giving in at all to de. aso cratic ideas, nor going beyond the most moderate consC itu tional government, had governed their States with eqi City and j ustice, all pretence for this foreign occupation would Bill. Sir H. ;rave, r I ?;m.ic