The Sun. — London, England, 1831-10-18 00:00:00

Jog Dd. sill d im' J o g r ip ;) Case order c.creo: o : ov t o , on, ;Old be or ol ther e or ?3id ee job Lo w I " ( a b e vio we re ' i d, of the of t he sa lary c ool , o be 3 ' a rm o r, )1. a 1,0 0 the e ll ye ar 6 0 01 , ' istr 3 rlib of t he I tf ,a p o to- f t he a tiea: o ,ol , e the tg u h oge c ,igilcc'iv the •O P GS' iV • tO ,i°° od a i t 6°l° •ratlg el' e ei t ' d‘' cc A or a o t tu Olt l ee °n •,, o e, figh t ." lig and V I so d t 1, 1 r s ' t t' et • t a ri t tfel 'tbe .!d ti Y be ; 1 04, to the for 1 tr y eper -5 „I C , , t tr as to e int ° tb,gidijc ,selit at r ti r; 48t he °, llr 11 . s ' yeti e ihe °` 4 0% '1631 at one per cent, would have received . 2 000/. for merely into ' the Bank of teceiving the property and paying it , i_ii,,i„„ would Ll 4 land. He hoped, least, that the tot t i ~.,,_ at . , onimtp t the c be charged ou the assets to be divided o d b i j t eTt e'datioidnot on the whole credit of the . bankrupt. and Paper cent. being inserted in the I b l e ill) su , ffi li - thought two cent. on the dividends would commission tient and that the remuneration on slinuld exceed 200/. The }lon. A t le t t i n ie ber t a ,ffe o i n a c l lu a d ss e i d gn l e )y e I_ l , ronl t ing, as an amendment, tha cent. ; that that sum should not nOt receive above twrc per " 1 Y be paid on the dividends, am' t n h o at eo t r l n ie m r i e s m sion neration of the official assignee should on exceed 200/, Th these e ATTORNEY-GENERAL, thought that l n t e N i v t a h s er no o t f to-"eale3rcendments was founded good sense. g ees : expected that the Comi o n a is s s , i , o n n e e e rs the sh n ou io ld le b a e in s n u n c t i LIS to give to every official assignee tabilettavrcetre entitled to limits placed to their case s Y was what ha g d iv b e een ha f t ound netcnesgsiavrey thein extremeassignee • The principle of the clause was he collected, and he tahrethuteration on all the monies assignee that the Commissioners were not likely to give the suet C. m ore than he ought to have. . p A til t* , GET admitted that too much in ottaerten some cases, and 12 e s r / e . e p n e t r . m ce i n g t h . t n l i i i e ght not be estion. the r ,_ ' In his opinion, therefore, p . it was nportohparholliyer the ere,i.'°ll4nittee to decide this the (mop s ie „ : clight, as more fit to . a l p u pOr . tio a n nd the he t h e - '4,lgotes than the Commissioners, r objected ewa rd o t o f hand s Patt " of bestowing these rewards being left in the ef the Court. Thed ho the defe ß n i d il ed wn t u h l e d clause, b e e , 4,n,h-cw,Ped the Commissioners under the . rs. They were 11neodeti with the present Commissioners. 4)te like Judges. ZAfter few is rai r,' • 11 ' . . Burge, Sir ir C. Wetherell, Mr. John `•••• Forbes • d Mr. Warburton. . lezt!lr• Pit tsil d F a lELD withdrew , Art agre ed, as we understand, • itinthaemweatodrnd'sengt'ivainngd ita ,vorcdntage should be struck . ?u t t 3 , a rs leaying the clause . 80 the power of fixing th e r e d 4 to give the Commissioners 0441'..tineration of the official assignees . at their discretion. "le compensation clause being read, II1Q11.• lee Mr. Serjeant Wilde, Mr. Pa w ge n t i , ds ll . lr. Tirennota,aasinl Sir ' CharlesWetherell said a few added to the Bill. The _ e was then Pte s t,;4TTO RNEY-GENERAL brought up a c o l i a n u te e d , 4td"lng that the Judges and other officers app .. ke r Z tiliti.l3ill should be incapable of sitting in Parlia ,th ich was agreed to. agreed to. Th e Preamble was then put and - t,,,Cd"e House resumed. The report was bro . ug e ht th u is p d a a n y d . Lord t' a nd the bill ordered to be . read a third time ilov AL THORP gave notice , that on . i t . h . is day he would i4iire that the House ad•ourn to Diursd, y h o e, s.,,ugar it-tHe - ry ilill, the Tithe Compensation Bill, lli tt e prescription Bill were then postponed to that day ,e Week s , a 4 ~., • tiot, umer Orders of the Day were disposed of, and the 4, adjourned at a Quarter-past Three. 1 I/0 U SE OF LORDS, itt p:.!e ,-Ittn CHANCELLOR The 2 c ock. 1.1 L' ' took his seat °c T on i' I ;h ß e I W 7. oolsack N s h i Duke of CUMBERLAND, on S aturday ee Learned Lord on teac respecti ng a inquired lsaekin t i v ,i h s et r l e ie m r nr t k h .s e ihine'l Friend of his (Lo p r a d int E hpe l l :l iN o e n t allu O de n d t t l a te a p• N ir e t i o )i f e t a h n a d t Wi t h e and Learned Lord he disclaimed any connection Tyre Pamphlet,the.;hl-ORD CHANCELLOR meant no allusion to ere that the author Lek Ve and Learned Lord allin d led to by the Illustrious 01 1 i: L l's (the Chancellor's) words 14 11 e ParnPhlet was the venerable w Fath i er st 4, lar• Now, though the Noble and 'li e , a v erY old and venerable man, still had Learned o f the E Lord ng 1 1 of the bar• One other remark he dwinasa,nleotusteheoff_a. I"li t ' li ad flat Only called him the r fa i tl i i n e a r t o o f r t n ls f e L E a n w gl ß is e l f. &_ , l: m ar . , •\ttav e , h ad said he was also theo h g th at he one could suppose (witty t Learned "e W I Chancellor) meant the Noble and ese words in his mind), (P.l4 n , e ~,, J, 1 el'le b.uke of C'UMBERLAND expressed himself per- The'Yted with the explanatio a n. o i t r tu d ege i t: o m an e c Id Vestpassreide s. Til:° Ilir i: 4l2ll)atie ll . e i r l i i e l s i w ß a i Isl readw en I t i l t l i l i r i l liii i. e °use tben went into Con the to b 1.:110.1i INV:?NrORD inquired whether Billthe tries. was :La-c`rd-eA(4lE'Llatarishes in wh . ich wer a e ny op p e a n ri v s e l s , _ 14 Lill i 0 URNE said that . - might adopt l • 'y ear n 'IYi g with its provisions. . -n lo \\Ty , 1 • n ' w 1 the Bill, in its present 'tits, would ntM:OIID thought Noble Viscount l i nt . :l a n e e n (1- 1 4 1 4 4 I- ORI2I('C tI e A s N o C fa E r LLOR rose to sup Wa e , The Noble and Learned Lord sa t i h d e l , " p t r h t ea a t e t ea tte le Bill and e„lltentt.only looked to with anxietyy throughout the csontratde in habitants of the parishes .. li st it Y, and more especially of the parish es in great towns, P r ey Wne ld& in hie opinion, tend very ,i m l. ucl; ,. t t o be t s h e e la ii , i v i- s we re er cent of the Parochial laws in trid h bell regulated, they tended vei g y ea nUch o t p o er t a li t e ed eo t i n, nf t o i r ie t trtkt iliieS; but if ill regulated, they , Wer t'lnecinvenienee of his Majesty's liege u ( l )f je i c a t n s :ilies i , l a ie r s id e li e s e l i "Ns that came home to the bosom tr''!ed(ltdbreti a great interest in them w s hether , they inte itlN ~.. er peopl e or not. 4 at ,„1" Parishes where ti ereTwheera Billno " . s . e a le d c d t vestries r t i ( e l s ' e a at ( a a l . l - . nr der 74°Y thousand persons should m ass n e f in t b b le e together in of Ina tatieh a constitute the administrati 1 111 i ought contrary to all sound principles '„ to be done by delegation, an . a o d f . , conduct. gthe ti . till!its, of tlettion, and the lepresentat t iv b e e y si ir b , e le in li t e e l l le Th,•-tetiole b h alit to exercise hole c ,n -5 "511 obeys yt ey 'Rl' possible that the w . ected s tita er num than it was poss! .. , eri,ation all .' 'er ei:tild. This was a Tor, a( 'zit:. kingdoms. liirpl i. te h d er t( e ) Ive re : 14 cf Parishes as well as to those o . t , eta t°4te parts of the Bill which had c p rr i ta y in i ly pr le n d fes h s i i n (i i n t a ( l ) iltali":-41n doubts it it had been drawn u ' )- intended that 1 „ 1 !,e hill s he greAter mischief which it w ""ieh •Li'utould collect was that of the self-electedll. irs of a parish I ,,etali, Ilt the management of the a . t " vestries, — to in dtr 'lvi t t , i i the hands; t principle of the 'l h * °4t f the o f the parishioners th l e l in n se u l g y l e , s t . 14 " i '' l "'ir otherLnlh. great let the Bill be ado ß p i te d il is r le i , t - ! the bulk sof'Ptsvhose inhabitants wei:leauseboyseedvertyn disposed adop. tieo„ltt• ith. respect to the fundamental r., adoption not to , a (::'lang-e',eiteleause which the amendment would so ina a te n r i i a a i l o ly_ , Y ill , Ouse the power of 41a•i'tit,,Fn`ePayers assembled at any rneeti r i s ig n , f b a tr. cer tr t s ain N05,,1, of two-thirds of all the rate-payers provision, no adop• ti s , e •; e , ni the district. By this latter li . l Y of s'i mold take place in any parish ' 4 4 1. the w hole of the rate-payers should concur in opi ,unless the 1 "..)' - s t ,, ' , : i p ilat., ,, l ; rv. _it should happen lr that two to one of the actual great „it)1!1,, i;',Yymipossible for a parisl7t i o ni o a h n t ' ai s n ti t i l l ie lt a& w ly e a u n i t d ag b e e s 190 would be a . .d ~"..lotit „ ' For instance, ISO or a majority di I. 'ot 1 out of 300 voters, and such i 0 B ut occur in assembly where , parties mne r e a t n_ (ok 4 sut „ .f any majority in al y not wete to en i a greater. nitiy 0, be obtained, s t i ll (lie parish would. was the majority :afheis„;e b nefit it required, nine" , e not p r „ent. It ~, •-•‘• toe beat those voters that lc er present had fiea t . l l4 ,°f no importance that the " " 1 " discussion Lpou t,ll - arguments and had attended to the to '1 tt'e 4414jen' the absentees would beallowed absentees ° Ntil i t t i all the rest, Not even a majority of parish, the 1 1 1, () bet, st ayed Of 300 rate-payers of a 199 of 555-' p lv r i . L '‘ayed awa might neutralize the votes of nt t : -`)1)% present Y But, what was more, the 100 al). yet, if they ` n 'nigh t 1 . to the Bill ; and ey di d lave rlO objection . ts.ild NA take the trouble to send in their votes, they endedaqllP-9y prevent the object of the 199 who ha ,, d on a l t s 4 1 'Y tli•'ne dici:v.:l6n and taken the trouble , to vote..s ...‘' T he ttboorrot:Z.garbdeertinlovraes m to on ea st le ro u u la s te ali ti d: e ab n s u li m rd he. t r na p i f i tfii Chmiate,,Payers. llow he was to do this, oit ee uefllor) could not say, for be had .jir6cm °hotchwarden This would be n o e n v e el of se the , most he • votes( t r il v e e d of Lord t a h I a eli, ) ,., teska that could fall on any mortal churchwarden, °f m e teas l iie to know the opinions and collect the w.,a ght "'road, 'ori,--,En •n `opinions country, or of i me ba l e _ '4, , 4 the time be attending to their brusiiiess c,sew a : . the rc,"lebwarden was to say whether two-thirds of th i e f Lor(i4,le-Payers were in favour of the measure. :Llittlik:dijrnu:..:.:.ti'wetaert::ren,:irrillakieiti)t,e)nehd,adianini:d(ei ietrpodrfov:nni,tasiti7g, couldamn e d n doubt I s i v e li e ( t N l , !e a r , a n a ot the be hi could not show any disrespect go a t: l: C ee t a o h i e n i i i i . l it i i tte I "Ps if h ouse red upon this subject. tif titt aent ees shouldn t o l tr tie th e t e l of that th,- t 's4e who resent. But a proxy did not tell upon ding allotted to R O U V u e r r i ‘ t l y ' 11 aelti In a t I S l t e , v t O i t ' e a s t 41'41Pei °f ether House, if it were not actually g.invre dict ;'4le aid.: or the other : but in parish affairs, accord all given o r riot fur Hip, the proXy . wo‘ald tell tyliether it was of till 0 , tor the churchwarden must declare the majority elate rate PaYers to he in favour of the measure, and the hf.juoteen who might be favourable to it must be pi o thint,c'ed as hostile if the churchwarden could not aseerta n i i :) , 4(1014 °Pitlio!w• He trusted that their Lordships wo fear ,41/r.tattripat,i(riji.i6shilkiill with the amendment. There was no ners would not meet in sufficient nurnt!ers tl i4t ti , e Measure was to be proposed, and he believed ,11..."'" who weuld oppose it were more likely to attend tiobeeeting than tl.ose who were in its favour, for in pa this 4 present tlais was often the ease. The p arish ° St. Pancras had had an open vestry before Mr. Sturges Bourne's act of 1809. It had then between 8,000 and 9,000 rate payers, but now he believed the numbers amounted to about 11,000. Seldom more than 1,000 of these rate-payers used to attend any meeting, but if the adoptio❑ of this Bill were to be mooted, probably 2,000 would now attend, and those who did not would enter into discussions with those who did, and influence their votes; and in which case the majority of the 2,000 would speak the sense of the parish, but, by the present Bill, such a meeting of 2,000 persons would be absolutely useless. Even if 6,000 persons were to attend, and to be unani mous, their votes would be ineffectual, because they would not amount to two-thirds of the whole rate-payers. This was the view he took of the measure, and he uttered it as a redemption of the pledge which he had given, that he would look into the question. He bad no prejudice in favour of the Bill, or the amendment, but be considered the subject upon the principles upon which all deliberative bodies were founded. Lord FEVERSHAM said a few words upon the Bill, which were inaudible at the bar of the House. The Earl of H ADDINGTON thought that the sugges __ tinn which he was about to offer very briefly to the House would reconcile the differences which existed in the opinions of their Lordships upon the subject. He would let the de cision of the point be left to two-thirds of the rate-payers present, if they formed a majority of the whole. It was desirable that the Bill should not be imposed upon a parish but by a majority of all the rate-payers. What he meant was this,—suppose there were 399 rate-payers in a parish, and that 300 of them should vote, then what he meant was, that 200 or two-thirds of the voters should settle the question. He hoped that he had made himself el fatly understood. The LORD CHANCELLOR observed, that the Bill did not contemplate any public meeting, but there could be no doubt that the question would substantially be de cided by such meetings. He thought that there was a great deal in the suggestion of the Noble Earl (Hadding ton), and that its adoption would be an improvement to the Bill. The Dal of FALMOUTH thought that property to a certain extent should be the rate of voting. The majority under the present Bill was left at two-thirds of the rate payers. That numerical majority might, in tniny parishes in the country, not comprise the one-twentieth of the property in the parish. The Noble and Learned Lord opposite had drawn an analogy between their Lordships voting, and parishes voting under the provisions of this Bill. Now it did not appear to him that that analogy was at all a correct one, nor did he perceive the least similarity between the legislative proceedings of that House, and the proceedings of parishes under this Bill. The LORD CHANCELLOR did not think that in one respect there was the slightest &fference between them; and in the instance to which he alluded, he would main tain that parishes would exercise an act of legislatio❑ pre cisely similar to that which was exercised by their Lord. ships. When the present Bill was passed, its adoption would be left optional with the various parishes in the kingdom. Now the voting this Act to be the law in any parish would be an act of legislation in the strictest sense of the word. If such an act was not a legislative one, he did not know the distinction. Lord WYNFORD was of opinion, that the church wardens should calculate the number of those that actually voted, and that two-thirds of them, under the regula►ion proposed by the Noble Earl (Haddington), should early the question. lle also thought that there should be a• scale of votes, graduated according to the amount of pro. petty assessed, and that for every 25/. for which an indi vidual was rated, beyond the original assessment from which he derived his first vote, he should be entitled to a vote, limiting the number of votes to which any individual could thus become entitled to six. Lord MELBOURNE had no objection totlie proposi- tion made by the Noble Earl (Haddington), nor bad he any objection to the first part of the proposition of the Noble and Learned Lord ; but he did object to that part of the Noble and Learned Lord's proposition which was founded on the principle of Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act. As the Noble and Learned Lordhatfa clause to propose to that effect, he (Lord Melbourne) would now state his objections to it. He would fairly say, that he for one entirely disapproved of all devices which would regulate the voting, either of two-thirds, three-fifths, or any other number, according to the principle of property. All such devices were of modern invention, and they were just as little known as ancient principles, as the principle of election, or any other new principle with re gard to voting, which Ministers had been .. attacked . . for introducing in the Reform measure. The prin ciple of voting according to property, he repeated, was entirely of modern invention. It was quite as modern as that which regulated the right of voting ac cording to population. He would not on this occasion go into a discussion of the principles of the Reform measure, at the same time that it must be admitted, that the right of voting in parishes was placed upon the saute bisis as the right of voting in counties and towns. Now, it could not be denied that the ancient frame of the representation in this country was not founded on population, for Rutland, for instance, had an equal number of representatives with Yorkshire. It was not, then, founded 611 population; neither could it be said to be based upon property, for the voters i❑ counties were freeholders ; then there were scot and lot voters, and the man who was *orth 20,0001. possessed only a single vote, as well as the 40s. freeholder. He would therefore say, that the introduction of a gra duated scale of property, as regulating the votes at elec tions, was, comparatively speaking, as new and unprece dented as any principle could possibly be, and that it was a very unfounded and pernicious one. It was a principle which struck at the root of all Government, and especially at the foundation of a popular Government. It was a principle which would give to a minority, no matter how small, the government of the majority, and it was one in fact which would tend to the destruction of any thing that was stationary in human affairs.—(Hear.) It was a principle, he repeated, which struck at the root of Government, for under it the great ma- jority might be completely overborne by a small and trifling minority in point of numbers. In a parish, for instance, where this principle would be introduced, and where an individual might have a vote for every 251. for which he was rated beyond the amount which gave him his' first vote, with the number of votes that any man could have limited to six, ten persons so circumstanced might over bear a numerical majority of fifty-nine other individuals, who were possessed only of single votes. If they intro duced such a principle as that into the Bill, the mea sure, instead of allaying excitement, and producing satis faction, would be attended by much greater discontent and dissatisfaction than even at present existed on the sub ject to which this Bill related. Again, he would depre cate the adoption of such a principle so much calculated to produce dissatisfaction, disturbance, and excitement, and so pregnant with all those evil consequences, to remedy which the present measure was intended. The Earl of FALMOUTH did not think that the principle which the Noble Lord so strongly condemned was such a completely novel one as he had represented, nor that it was one which was in so much disfavour with the Legislature of this country. It was one which their Lordships had adopted the other day i❑ the Tithes Cow position Bill, under which the majority should he 3-stlis in number and value. Seeing the ti icks, jobbing, and party spirit that prevailed in parishes, the adoption of some ouch principle was abocdutely necessary, to counter vail and to prevent such a state of things. Lord MELBOURNE remarked, that what he had said was, that the r tinciple in question was one of modern in vention. Ile was well aware th . at it had been adopted at the India House, and in other places. Lord WYNFORD said the principle had been acted upon at the India House for a cen'ury ; under the bank ruptcy law the same principle was observed. In fact, in all mattes connected with property, the right . of Voting was graduated according to property , and he would there fore contend that the same principle should b e a dh ere d to in this instance. The Duke of WELLINGTON said, that the Noble and Learned Lord opposite had talked of meetings of 2,000 end 3,000 and 15,000 persons, discussing and deciding upon the adoption or rejection of this Bill in par i shes. Now, there could not possibly be any discussions in meet ings of that description. Such bodies would be necessarily obliged to come ti.o a decision at once ! This I3ill had been introduced for the professed object of removing dissatis faction in certain parishes in London. Why, t h en, he would ask, was it not confined to London ? Lord MELBOURNE said, that there were similar com plaints from parishes in the large towns throughout the kingdom, such as Bristol, Birminehatn, &c. The Duke of WELLINGTON did not think that that was any good reason fur extending the Bill over the whole country. Why was not Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act, which had been found to work go well and to give so ranch satis faction in the pa' ashes in the country where it had been introduced,—why was not that Act introduced into th e metropolitan parishes for the purpose of remedying the evils which were complained of? He did not see any reason why such a Bill as that should not be adopted in this instance. He thought that the provision of this Bill, which left it optional with parishes to adopt or to reject it, was pregnant with contention and excitement. If the law were a good one, why should it not be declared at once to be the law of the land If it were to be adopted, it should be declared at once to be the law of the land, and the adoption of it should not be left at the option of individual parishes. The Earl of HADDINGTON said that the particular and local Acts by which several of the parishes in London were regulated had reference to a great variety of matter,, —such as the collection of local taxes, as well as the constitution of their vestries, and they therefore stood in the way of the application of Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act to the metropolis. He would briefly state the amendment which be was desirous to see introduced into this Bill. This object was to provide that the voters, of whom two thirds should decide upon the adoption or non-adoption of this Act in a parish, should constitute a clear majority of the rate-payers in such parish. By that means a small numbers of voters would be prevented from determining that point, and introducing this Act into a parish where, in fact, the majority of the rate-payers might be opposed to its introduction. The Noble Lord concluded by mov ing, that after the words " if two-thirds of the votes have been given for the adoption of said Act," the following words should be inserted—" Provided always, that the whole number of persons present on such an occasion shall constitute a clear majority of the rate-payers in the said parish." Lord MELBOURNE had no objection to the intro dnction of these words into the Bill. It was said that this Bill should have been confined to the metropolitan parishes. The exigence of the evils, however, which it was intended to remedy, was also complained of in the parishes in Bristol, Birmingham, and the other large towns throughout the country. Afi': Sturges Bourne's Act would never answer as a remedy for those evils, and he was sure that there was not one of the parishes in London, for whose benefit this measure was intended, that would be disposed to adopt that Bill.—(Hear, hear.) The Members of the select vestries in the parishes in London, themselves admitted that the existing system was one that should be put an end to, and the object of this Bill was to introduce a better one. The Earl of FALMOUTH thought that the Bill should at least be limited to the parishes in London and in the great towns, and that it should not be extended to the rural parishes, front which there had been no com plaints on the subject. The Earl of HARROWBY thought that the plain • and simple remedy for the existing state of things was, to make Mr. Sturges Bourne's Act applicable to the parishes in the metropolis, and in the great towns throughout the kingdom. One single short enactment leaving it at the option of those parishes to adopt Mr. S. Bourne's Act would be the best course of proceeding at present, and in the interval that must elapse between the prorogation of the present session and the commencement of the next, a full and proper consideration could be given to the provi sions of this tnea , ure. Under the pressure of the great and vital question that had occupied their attention for some time backoheir Lordships had not been able to give a due portion of their attention to this measure, and he was of opinion therefore that the course of proceeding which he had just recommended would be the most advisable one to adopt. Lord MELBOURNE said, that the existence of local acts in the parishes at present exempted from the operation of Mr. S. Bourne's Act, stood in the way of its introduc tion into them, and he was satisfied that its introduction into the parishes which complained of the existing system, would not be at all calculated to produce that content and tranquillity the establishment of which was the object of this measure. lie was fully sensible of the inconvenience that attended the discussion of such a measure as this at this late period of the session. The excitement and dis content, however, which at present existed, and various other considerations, into the nature of which he should not then go, pressed for the speedy adoption of some such • measure as this, and he thought that it was better to pass this Bill, even at the hazaro of its having some defects in it, than to leave the law in its present state. The Eat I of FALMOUTH again repeated, that this Act should not be extended to the rural parishes, which, speak ing from his own experience, he should state were perfectly satisfied with Mr. S. Bourne's Act. _ Lord MELBOURNE said, he certain'y had not received any complaints from the parishes in the country, but the Noble Earl must be aware that much popular di.content and dissatisfaction had existed on the, subject throughout the kingdoth. It was impossible to confine this Bill to the great towns, unless their names were specially introduced into it, and besides, its adoption w3s not made compulsory upon any parish, either in town or country. It would be at the option, therefore, of the rural parishes, to adopt or reject it, as they shOuld think fit. —(Hear.) The amendment was then put and agreed to. Several other clauses were then agreed to without dis cussion. A "NOBLE LORD, whose name we could not learn, pro posed an amendment in the clause which regulates the qualification of voters at the election of vestrymen. This amendment was not read either by the Noble Lord or by the Chairman ; but we are told that the purport of it was to establi.h a graduated scale of voters, giving to each individual a certain number of votes, in proportion to the amount of rates paid by him, but limiting such number of votes to six. The Earl of MULGRAVE should certainly oppose the amendment. The rates would be forced rates; each per son would be rated according to his means, and the small means of a poor man were as valuable to him as the greater means of a rich man were valuable to the rich man. There ought, therefore to an equality in the right of voting. He trusted that the House would reject an amendment which, it adopted, would lead to the most disastrous consequenres. The Earl of FALMOUTH wished to know upon what principle of equity it could be contended that a man who paid 2s. fid. a year, ought to be placed on the same foot ing with a in in who paid 1001. a year ? Lord MELBOURNE said that the original right was that every rate-payer should vote equally, and that all the Acts which had been passed since had been so many limi tations of that original right. He thought the principle of equity, which the Noble Earl could not see, was perfectly clear ; and he could conceive nothing more unlike equity than, in the election of a body like this, to refu‘e a vote to any rate-payer who was to be subject to its regulations. The Committee then divided, and the numbers were— For the amendment 3S Against it Majority against the amendment The original clause was then agreed to, as also were all the subsequent clauses. The House resumed.—Report to be received to-morrow (this day). The Earl of FALMOUTH gave notice, that he should to-morrow move that the operation of the Bill be confined to those parishes which had complained of the present system. EAST INDIA AFFAIRS. On the motion of Lord ELLENIIOICOCOIi, it was agreed to solid a message to the Commons, to ask for a copy of the reporti of the Committee of that House upon E as t Indian affairs. CONSOLIDATED FUND BILL. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY having moved that this Bill be read a third time, The Duke of WELLINGTON said that he rose, pur suant to the notice he had given, for the purpose of sub- • mitting to their Lordships some observations respecting the financial condition of the country. lie was aware that it was usual, on occasions like the present, to advert as well to the evernal as to the internal policy of the country,— to the measures emanating front both,,—to the effects which those measures had produced, and to the effects which those measures were likely to produce. Although, however, there were sonic topics connected with our foreign policy to which lie might be anxious to a•lvert,—although there was one of these which was already ripe for di-cos sion, the papers connected with it being already on their table,—yet it was not his intention to trouble their Lord ships, on the present occasion, with any allusion to fttreign affairs, because I e should have other opportunities for this, and btcause their Lordships had already been wearied with a very long diketission. He shouhl, therefore, confine him self entirely to the state of the finances of this country, and to comparison between their present state and what tiny had been before. The country now found itself in this singular situation,—namely, that with an increased expenditure, and with a large reduction of taxation, it had at the same time no overplus.of revenue over expenditure, or at least so trifling an overplus, that it might fsi;ly be culhd none at alj, b;ling, s Oc simuld presently *how, not more than about 10,0001. He said that the country was in this situation now, for he put out of the question the Ministers' coming down to Par liament, and asking for such an overplus—such a margin—for those accidental and unforeseen expenses which must necessarily occur in so large a revenue as this country had the happiness to boast of. Now a ,urpins'orin: come over expenditure had always been Considertd desir able in this country ' with a view to the diminution of the public debt. fie was aware thhat there was great differ ence of opinion connected with this point. Ile syg aware that many great atltherities were of opinion that no such surplus of income over expenditure was necessary ; and he agreed with those authorities, when they said that this surplus ought not to Le increased by borrowing, and so incurring new liabilities for the purpose of getting rid of old ones. At the same time, however, be could not look at what had taken place in this country of late years,—even duri ng th e s h ort t i me h e h a d t h e h onour o f bei n g in lily Majesty' s counc il s ,— w ith out b e i ng sensible of what very great ad van t ages h a d resu l te d, amid must result, from such ' au overplus of income over expenditure as would tend to the gradual diminution of the public debt. lle was within the truth when he stated to their Lordships, that since the peace the interest of the public debt had been re duced to an amount equal to what would pay the interest of 100,000,000/. of stock ; and he thought their Lord ships must therefore see that some overplus of income at least was highly desirable. But this was not all. Consi dering the hopes which had been held out at a different times by persons at the head of the financial department, that there should always be such an overplus provided— considering the wishes which had been constantly ex pressed on this subject by all the Committees on financial affairs, and even by the last Finance Committee—consi dering these things, he thought that he was not saying too much, when he said that it was a principle of the financial policy of this country that there should be an annual sur p'us of income over expenditure to be applied to the gra dual diminution of the public debt. Besides these consi derations their Lordships must be aware that much of the revenue of the country depended upon the seasons, and that almost all of it depended upon consumption. Their Lordships, too, must be aware that consumption depended upon taste and fashion, and upon those changes in taste and fashion over which no man could have any controul. Thus, then, their revenue was subjected to very material variations, the precise amount of which could not be fore seen, and which could be provided fur only by a surplus of income. It was on this principle that the Government to which lie had the honour to belong had proceeded in the last year. In the preceding year they had arranged so as to have had a diminution of the unfunded debt to the amount of 130,000/. a year ; and in the course of the years 1828, 1829, and 1830, they had produced a dimi nution of expenditure to the amount of not less than 3,575,000/. Their expenditure being in 1827, 51,390,000/. and in 1830, 47,815,0001. This difference was produced by three years' close attention to economy. They reduced the services estimated for Parliament from 18,245,000/., to which they amounted in 1827, to 16,550,000/., which was their amount in 1830, making a difference of 1,500,000/. Besides this they had reduced their expen • diture,in the last year—that was to say, the year 1829-30 by an amount of 1,100,0001., and furthermore, they laid the ground for a diminution, by reducing the Four per Cents., of 788,000/. a year. They had, therefore, made a reduction not of 3,500,000/. only, but, in fact, a reduc tion of more than 4,000,000/. Having- made such a reduc- tion of expenditure, they considered themselves justified in proposing a large reduction of taxation. They did propose such a reduction accordingly, and, with the consent of Parliament, they took off taxes to the amount of 3,350,000/. When they made this proposition to Parliament, they had a revenue which was estimated at—and he believed did not produce less than-50,480,0001. Their expenditure was only 47,815,0001. They had also, besides this, as he had al ready stated, the prospect of a farther reduction by reducing the Four per Cents, to the amount of 788.0001. By deduct ing this prospective reduction from their expenditure, their expenditure would be made 47,027,0001. ; and the differ ence, therefore, between their income and their expenditure was 3,453,000/. By repealing taxes to an amount grater than 3,000,000/., they had remaining but a very small surplus of income over expenditure. But then, at the same time, they laid on an additional duty on spirits, and they had every reason to expect that, by the repeal of the beer tax, a very considerable increase of the revenue would result from additional production from the malt tax, and he believed that the Noble Lords opposite would ac li - knowledge that they bad found that this expectation of their predecessors bad been realized. They had hoped, too, that another year would give them still better pros pects; for at that time they had not had the good for tune of the French revolution.—(A laugh.) They had, however, a large fleet in the Mediterranean, which the settlement of the affairs of Greece had rendered it necessary to keep up ; but as soon as that settlement should have been accomplished, they had intended to put down that fleet, and to bring the navy estimates, like the army esti mates, within the frame of a peace establishment. They h a d hoped, and he thought reasonably, that by these means they should have had a surplus of income over expendi ture to the amount of nearly 2,000,000/. sterling. It was in this condition of affairs that the Noble Lords oppo site had come into office. Those Noble Lords had found themselves under the necessity of increasing all the mili tary establishments, all the navy establishments, and, in short, all the establishments which their predecessors had been occupied for so many years past in endeavouring to re duce. The estimates for their establishments exceeded the same estimates of their predecessors by about 930,0001. At least this was the amount of the apparent excess : but then he must observe that the real excess was 200,0001. or 300,0001. more ; for the fact was, that the Ordnance was not charged to its full amount, a part of the expenses for it having been provided for by the sale of stores, in cluding even arms belonging to the department.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Thus the charge for the Oidnanee appeared smaller than in fact the necessary ex penses of the department amounted to ; and the difference therefore, between the estimates of the Noble Lords oppo site and those of their predecessors would have been 1,200,000/., and not 930,0001., if part of the ways and means for providing for the expenses of the Ordnance de pal tment had not been derived from the sale of stores. However, the Noble Lords opposite must admit that the excess, according to their own reckoning, stood at 930,0001. Now the revenue upon which the Noble higher than they (the late Administration) had calculated the y u after deducting the t axes Lords calculated was 47,250,00 W., which was a little Lords would amount to 4 7, 239 , 85 W., which, subtra c t e d tlierleivaednreed for u reduced. Then ycarl t B h 3 e l, expenditure of the N o bl e from the revenue of 47,250,000/. would leave a surplus of only 10,1501. This, and no more, was the surplus of income over expenditure in a great country like this. (Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) He was perfectly well aware that the Noble Lord, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, had made out the surplus to be much greater ; but then the Noble Lord had been able to make out his amount of surplus in no other way than by resort ing to a mode of calculating which was quite new in the financial system of this country. The revenue was ad mitted to be 4.7,250,00 W. The expenditure, however, the Noble Lord calculated in this way. The Noble Lord took what had been expended and what might, be ex trended, but not what Parliament had voted. The Noble Lord l We have spent alr ea dy 35,221 , 643/ . ; f or e remainder of the year I will a ll ow 11,534 ,578 / . ; so t said—'` that our whole expenditure will amount to 46,756,2211." Bautitsfc this to way of calculating could n o t b e considered asy. The votes whi c h h a d b een agreed to b y satisfactory, Parliament amounted to 47,239,8501. ; th e revenue was calculated at 47,"250,000/. ; a n d t h e surp l us, t h erefore, of itncome over expenditure w a s, as h e h a d ma d e i t out, 101 pj„ an d not 49.3,000/. as the Chaucelicr of the Exchequer, by his mode of calculating, repre sented it to be. Now lie was quite sure that their Lordships would see through the fallacy of this state ment. It might be true that it would not be neces sary to provide, during this year, for a greater outlay than bad been stated by the Chancellor of the Eicittequei; but although a nation, like at: ind;yidual, might not be called upon to dischiqga within the year all the liabi lities contracted by theirs during that year, yet he must -ay that both the nation and the individual ought, in cal culating their expenditure and receipts, to ;et the elitpen diture find the Veceiptt ei;;Ilt year against one another ; and if the question was one of defraying yearly expenditure by means of yearly receipts, to provide for the liabilities c ontracted in one year out of the receipts of the same year. H e must contend, therefore, that the Chancellor of the Exchequer had introduced into the finarreial ;strut of die co untry quite a new principle--a principle which in any times but the present wouid not have been listened to for a moment, even if any Chancellor of the Exchequer had brought it forward, which he did not think would haye been likely in any other times than these. Laving this prospect before them. nu'Liters Lad thought rope{' " L W tq clOnnat to a large reduction of taxation. ;ley had repealed the duties on coals, which pro duced to the revenue 950,000/. a year : they had made an alteration in the cotton duties, by which, as he under stood, the revenu e would lose 300,000/. a year more ; besides these, they had made a pro:pool:7e i•epi.al Uf the candle duties, by which thg reyou;i;l lidv,hl sustain a further loss of 5 0 0,000r a year, Two of these alterations took t 'ilaee iii the month of March last, and the other was to commence in February. With every allowance for in crease of consumption, he thought that the loss of income which would result from these alterations in th,o Neaidit year, coma rant be calculated at Ices ; and this, therefore woold t. ve Leen 56`much surplus revenue at tb'E if" the'laxes had been retained. But let their' Lordship: look at the next year. Then there, would b e , by the coal tax, the c.rtton duties, anti ;he ;:ratl!, tax, more than 1,7 00,000/. Wien from a - ievewie which already exceeded-the expenditure by isp more than 10,0001. He was ( ". 1 `:'• 9f l ll,oSe Whp . sald, a long, time ago, that he thought 0;1 repeal of the coal tax a very proper measure, if it were proper to repeal any tax ; but the Noble Earl should recol. lest that he (th e D uke of Wellington) had told him that the mode to supply the consumer with cheap coal*, wo..lnot to begin by repealing the tax, but by tout . ,`,ing an end to the abuses in the cord trade----(llear.) These abuses were still in eistc:.:ice. Wh at W ere t h e consequences produced by the cOafition betw een t h e coal producer, and the per sons engaged in bringing the article to market ? Why, that while 950,000/. was lost to the revenue of theconntry, only 2s. a chaldr on were saved by the c onsumer ; the re . 'paining4s, going to th e producer and conveyor of the ogle, who, in addition to their other weighty profits, bad nosy got the greater part of the King's duty. Their Lord ships would now see that this was not the exact way in which the finances of the country ought to be regulated. And when their Lorslships came to look at the conse quences of the repeal of this tax, and how little benefit it produced to the consumer, they would feel the strength and burden of his observations, that it was most desirable to have a surplus of the revenue over the expenditure to meet contingencies. If other circumstances rendered such a provision a matter of comparative indifference, still it was certainly more desirable to have the money lying in the Exchequer rather than in the pockets of the producer or the person by whom the coals were transported to Lon don or elsewhere. Their Lordships would observe, that he had not said that he was averse to the repeal of this tax ; what he had stated was, that it was expedient, in re pealing it, to give the consumer, not the producer, the full benefit of the measure, and that the repeal should only take place when Government was quite sure that the produce of the tax was not essential to the King's revenue. He made these observations because, looking to the pre ceding year, he was convinced that the revenue was tend ing to a state of great confusion ; and the Noble Earl, in case any accident shoul l occur, —in case of any thing un foreseen arising in the tnoney-market,—something, for instance, with respect to the funding of Exchequer-bills, the Noble Earl, he repeated, would find himself in a po sition of the greatest possible embarrassment.—(Hear.) Earl GREY apologized for not being so well prepares' as he ought to be to answer the statements of the Noble Duke, partly because he did not know how far the Noble Duke intended to go, and partly because he was not very familiar with the details brought before the House. He woulal, however, explain to their Lordships in a few words his reasons for dissenting from the view of the financial state of the country taken by the Noble Duke. With the first principle advanced by the Nob'e Duke he entirely agreed. He was of opinion that it was both convenient and desirable that there should be a surplus revenue to meet any contingent expenditure ; but when it was laid down that there was a necessity for a Sinking Fund, —for any thing raised by taxation to be applied to the reduction of the immense mass of debt,—he was de cidedly against all such plans of taxation, as he ascer tained the conviction that to leave the money in the pockets of his Majesty's industrious subjects, agricul tural, manufacturing, and commercial, was a much better means of meeting the burdens that pressed upon the empire, and much more likely to lighten them, than any expedient like the old one cf a sinking fund. It might be prudent to apply to such a purpose what could be spared, after providing fur foreseen and unforeseen ex penses ; but he did not think it proper to levy fresh taxes, or to continue old ones that pressed upon the industry of the country ; it was wiser to leave these resources with individuals to assist the various interests of which the aggreg ,te prosperity of the nation was composed. The Noble Duke had entered into an exposition of the condition of the public finances when lie vacated office, and he (Earl Grey) was willing to give him credit for reduction which lie believed to be his due. Including the Four per Cents. the Noble Duke laid claim to reductions amounting to Above 1,000,000/. Ile had nut the figures before him, but while he was ready to give every credit to the Noble Duke, he did not know that he could exactly subscribe to , his statement; he rather thought the amount would be found to be something less. The Noble Duke stated, that the army and navy had been increased. True, they. had been, and no man more regretted the necessity of that augmentation than lie (Earl Grey). The army had received an addition of 7,000 men, and a large naval force had been maintained,— precautions called for by the state of Europe. But lie believed the Noble Duke had not objected to these measures ; nay, so far from ob jecting, he had blamed his Maje-ty's Government that 'hey had not armed to a greater extent to put themselves in a condition for supporting the interests of the country. —(Hear.) The naval and military establishments had un doubtedly been increased, owing to the circumstances of Europe when they came into office ; the occasion that demanded additional precautions originated in no fault of theirs : it was their duty to place the country in the posi tion the exigency required ; and if he differed from the Nob'e Duke as to the amount of force, he had advised that which lie believed to be sufficient, and additions might be made to it if found to be necessary to support the honour of the Crown and the interests of the country. The Noble Duke had stated that there was last year a considerable surplus of revenue over expenditure ; and had entered into calculations to show that fo. the current year the surplus would amount to no snore than 10,0001. Now lie (Earl Grey), after making allow ance for the loss sustained by the repeal of the coal tax, and every other loss peculiar to the year, foetid that the surplus would amount to at least 493,000/. Be it pi)- , served, that he was speaking after three-fourtL of the year had elapsed—of three quarters tk.t.e teas a b s ol u t e certainty; and the probable receipts and expenditure of the concluding quarter were ascertained almost to a cer tainty. The Noble Earl then went into a comparison of he respective receipts for the years 1830 and 181 i, and referred to the large increa , e in the produce of the Cos . toms and Excise for the present yeaa, as a proof of the wisdom of throwing off, at far as was possible, the fiscal restrictions on the consumption of exciseable articles. He would now advert to what the Noble Duke had said with respect to the repeal of the coal tax. The Notile puke had admitted that it was not an improve, tax to be re pealed—it weighed very heayi,ly upon the community, particularly on the loam,- orders ; and, as some of their Lordships knew, with peculiar severity upon the people of the southern counties. The Noble Duke said, they ought to take care that the people felt the I,ae - .,e of th e repeal, and that the amount of the da;ty diii not go into the pockets of the producers. To that sentiment he (Earl Grey) would snbaaribes. The Noble Duke farther re marked, that ;t was necessary to regulate the coal trade 4 1 London ; to that he also subscribed ; and a 13111 the ex press purpose had passed that and tl;e ether House of Parliament, and was raaw pert 0; the law of the land. He supposed this wo , a1: 1 , aatiafy the Noble Duke, and he trusted it wotlld have a beneficial effect, and accomplish the end at which it aimed. The Noble Duke had atwaed a little unfairly from circumstances peculiar ,C 1 the present year. He said that the reduction , a,f; the duty only benc fitted the consumer to t!,;:a amount of 2s. a chaldron, while the remaiti;r.g Is. went to the producers. tie thought •ifihis an unfair view when he called to mina the cir cumstances which had hitherto prevented the public from deriving the full advantage c i f Tire eitaage. When the re peal took place, it lead pule abroad that the community could ne3 have the full benefit of the measure in come, iuenee of the coalition of many of the pit-ownek.a, it was the circulation of this opinion that pro..l.acaali the strike for higher wages among the collier 'aeay their combine tiara the trade was stopped, fna. na believed two months, and mo great was ;he zaatsequent distress for coals, even in the mit.::,cg .iiatricts, that to carry coals to Newcaai.:e' aoatef'no longer be applied to illustrate the. al..auaaiity of bringing an article where it is naa wanted. He bad seen letters from persoea rrlao sappliod the Newcastle steam boats declar,liii that the vessels must lay in coals az they ouuld not undertake to furnish theca. Fie had "known instances of the old heaps of coal tX,L,t the Noble Duke in visiting the north might 1 1- sg...s , ;to iyieg at the mouth of pits, he had knc)v4 's - ,:tstannea of these being sold at the price of oafs. Under these cir cumstances, it uut Le said that the good effects of the re',.:ea; tax could yet be felt. Combination vAI ;,ow happily at au end ; and be anticipateci, aa'aer, the trade was proceeding in its usual wax, that it would be found that Government baA gr4:;ti.rti r, very efficient mea sure of relief.--](*).;;;e ;Code Lord observed, that it was alread,:kfieAd I;alie. an.) It appeared that it had already woved beneficial ; but at all events, it any thing arosil prevent the public from deriving all the benefit iaea;ht to result from.the measure, Parliam e nt - 0 ,11 to de vise further means to accomplish cae - aatii's in view. The Noble Earl, in order to e:ac.ve. `we fallacy of those ealcula tim's of N" . 4.;e which had led hint to state the QurpAps of the current year at 10,0001., now p,.;ocectied to enumerate the various items of retvi.v.% 4,41 expenditure. The revenue for the year stood a; I,ni,labr customs , Excise . ~, 16,t100,000 Stamp Duties . 6,850,000 Taxes ::1.............. . „. 5,000 , 000 • Pot•t. of.ce•••• - • . 1,500,011, The Noble Earl then dekaile4 totdic,vrent l;ranches o f expenditure, tivt: Total, of ibi ' t:-bs itt round numbers, attionnt4 tO 4 4, 7 4 6, 90 1 .2 leaving, after all deductions, a su:plus o, evf.ritte over' expenditur e of 493,000/. He got a a on what principle this statement could be much larger Ft;n:,;j4uttinfit•o;rnesttshoef atiel:te.cloinu:tsruyrphlauds denied, when the expenditur e of three quarters staia ;aefore Ile believed he might have W s -- ;reihit for a U to Ce I e t n a t s e s r u ta re i nd ti would je a p b p e r e s l a , e ti ,: s ti n i o ie t been shown to exist, the ifiwezdi,,,thatetdt.,b.:ua would sion that they Were not in a condition to meet an;; emer gency that was likely to arise. He cot:fah:l-dry hoped and expected that in another yezq further 'reductions would be practicable, This hied been a year of great difficulty and dezre.raiien. The unsettled state of Europe had pro duced a general want of confidence; in the month or August the exchanges were against us, and there was a drain of bullion from the country. The difficulty result ing from the pressure had been rendered as little severe as poi,'hle, the contraction of the circulation h a d ° p etale d as lightly as was possible. The country °trod much to e tli x e hi t b n i a t t e i d ag g ei r r e t a en t td diligence Batik g t e l i te ce of and ability England, ir a body ti, econduct which its own affairs, and the affairs of the public, and now he trusted that matters had taken another and more aus picious turn. The exchanges were now in our favour, the bullion was coming back, and if they might put faith in appearances, they might, with the continuance of better there grounds hadheen all knew peace, entertain the hope of growing prosperity, and he a war on the continent—the dispute between Holland and Belgium. Be was happy to be euabled to theffowasrr s ome qi ni e 'da e u s p t rg i ty o ii Inn n tg(e w ) inP l istate,ites.hlte —(Hear.) et e aa p trti t !' oe)trnhee°mT7.Ple'ierenaei peace Lordshipsnecot t mn ta ti n n ual alarm re spectinginform the House, that after IS months of very difficult } o , f , r e London, Great singular cire composed)negotiation,uer s a onfeg conducted otchiettrneperie b , as representative, an et t ta h et e ri ri zedee Conference obfy ttiih ee cumetance that it had been conducted without any serious difference of opinion among the members of the Conference —this negotiation had at last, be believed, been brought to a conclusion nu principles equitable for bath parties, and the terms of which, he trusted, would be accepted by them as the removal of all impediments to pacific relatiene. He would call the principles on which the Conference had de tided equitable, and he would not hesitate to declare the view he took when he saw that the reunion of Holland and Belgium was impossible. The first thing he thought e ne cessarysafety of f t o the Hollandinterests d defensive n t s h i ve i s country was aud obtain as many advantages for the B e lgi a n s a s w ou ld secure. tthoe secures econd,th to to theist the character which, as au independent nation, they ought to possess. These points had occupied the at tention of the congress, and the deliberations were now brought to a conclusion. He trusted that the mode of adjustment would be adopted by the parties at issue, and it was the duty of the five Powers to enforce its adoption in the way best calculated to preserve the tranquillity of Eu rope. Such being the state of our foreign relations,...., looking to security abroad as the ground of making that re duction in certain branches of expenditure, which, however reluctantly, they bud been obliged to increase,—there was another circumstance to which he must refer as not tees fa vourable to retrenchment, and that was peace and content.. anent at home. To this he also looked with sanguine ex pectation. There existed, it was true, great excitement throughout the kingdom. lie believed there was no NoWe Lord on the opposite side who would now take upon kites it, deny that the people of England were is earnest in their demands for Parliamentary; Reform..(Hear, heir.) Yet deep, and intense, and universal as was the feeling in favour of Reform, it had not broken out into ants of turbulence save in orte or two instances of riot. These it wan the duty of Government and of society to restrain, for erithoot peace and order there could be no liberty ; anal it was mor e especially incumbent on the friends of Reform to repress all unseemly acts of commotion, as he believed in his con.- , science thaf nothing could operate more adversely to the measure of their wish. While OR this subject, he would endeavour to obviate the eiTeete of very considerable misrepresentations diet had gone abroad with respect to what had fallen from him on the occasion of receiving the delegates of certain parishes of London. What had passed had not been correctly stated. The object of the deputation was to show him the necessity of advising his Majesty not to prorogue Parliament for more than seven days. To offer any pledge of the kind he (Earl Grey) de clared at ones to be altogether inadmissible, and n;t to be taken into consideration by his Majesty's Ministers,. The question of prorogation was one which they must determine in the way they thought best for the interests of the country. He would not think of holding a place in the Government meter dictation as to what mews sures it was his duty to recommend. Unless he en , toyed the liberty of deciding according to the Sugges tinonz of hit own understanding, it would be imps -dile for him to retain his situation in the Councils of his Sovereign. These were the sentiments he had expressed to the deputation. but ha had said nothing about any spe cific time for whiela Parliament might be prorogued. He had only said that the matter must be left to the dievre tioo of the King's Ministers, who would tender that ad vice which they deemed hest to be adopted.—(Hear, hear.) He thought that he had a right to claim credit with the count - el( for the fitness of whatever advice he might deceit it right to offer. Whether for a longer or .Loreee iseriod of prorogation titan suss customary, he con ceived that he had a claim to te! considered as snaking that .rrangenaent most conducive to the interests of the groit question which they lied so much at licert.—(Hear.) With respect to this great question, he had stated that he thought ‘lii,t alteration, in the late Rill were neceesary, end that it was the duty of his Majesty's Governmeet to consider these alterations ere they came to be for mally submitted to Pnaseuent ; but he had alien said, that he would be tin party to any measure that was not founded on the same principle, and that was not equally efficieot,....-Hear, hear.) These were all the statements he had made on the occasion Alluded to. with time exception of an observation that had dropped from him, when it was represented whet would be the agitation of the public mind when ne satisfaction was given with respect to the period of prorogation. Ile hail then told the delegates 'hat they ought to impress upon the public the necessity of temperate conduct, and ou g ht to use their efforts to preset re the peace of the country, and not place the Government in a situation in which they would lie comeelled to exer cise the powers entrusted to them for that purpose —powers which,, if requisite, they were determined to exercise. With regard to what might he the term of prorogation, he begged to assure the House that it would be regulated by a sincere desire to ensure the success of ato momentous measure of parliamentary Reform. He must, however, take Lem to say, that there must he some limits to the exertions of human strength. Parliament had now been since October last, almost without inter mission, or with intervals equally productive of labour to public men as the Session it.elf. His Noble Friend on the Woolsack had gone. through multifarious ietrieuea such as no man but himself could have suer tamped. In the other Howse two Noble Lords had, in addition to the hue;s.cas of office, been burdened with the labour of constr e ne debating for the last three montlo. It could not lee expected that even Illeualaers of Parliament uneennected with the Administration should be indifferent to relaxation, or should not wish to devote some time to the consideration of their personal affairs. Still he ad mitted that every thing Inuit submit to the sentiment of public duty, He would undoubtedly advise that which was in aneurdance with its dictates ; and he thought he 14,1 a right to receive credit front his f flow-subjects for any measure he should teem - amend, whether they might or might not consider it expedient at the time, and they would be duitme; I . .e.teselves no more than justice, if they waited reetiently for the issue ere they pronounced cen ewe, The Noble Earl concluded by reverting to the ori rginal subject o f d e b ate , repeat i ng that the surplus revenue for the year amounted to 493,000/, and adding that it would not have le-it difficult for him to have shown, that the arommt was yet larger.—( Hear.) TL }'hike of WELLINGTON, as we understood, was p eiel ;u find that the Noble Earl was enabled to tusike so favourable a statement of the 2nances. He expressed his satisfaction at the resule ci the negotiations respecting Bel gium. One cotobiei,on be thought might he drawn from the excitement that prevailed in this, sentry,—uatnely, that Metitbers of that and the other Howse should not. eueist in creating such a feeling, The LORD CHANCELLCA rose in consequence n'i at tempts that had been pestivaciously made to ineitne e the belief that there ',iii.teci a difference of opinitra 'oetween his Noble V;itritel (Earl Grey) and himself upon the ques tioo.cA riteform, to repeat that be heartibe concurred in what had fallen from his Noble Friend. He had expressed all the Mentb the same sentiment before ; lint the bad not induced cer tain persons to desist from misrepresentation. Now, he c=ould declare, in tie... Faience of his colleagues, that of c=i'4 ah the Cabinet there never had been the slightest tUfit , Tenekt of opinion between his Noble Friend ttee' i himself respecting even the most minute particulars of the Bill --he would not say the principle, for as to that they wete all agreed ; but he certainly would say the minv,tks4 details of the measure. He should nose Pass, H.) the delicate and difficult subject of the recess. Notwiehstamling the impatience of sone° worthy inilivi -1 duals, whom he believed extremely well-disported towards the Government, and most zealoe.s for the success of the Bill, but who in recommending a prorogation for a week, certainly did wit eVemPlay a seal according to know ledge, he must itYr.:,W his opinion that for theSessioa to com mence after en brief an interval, and for the Chanellor— he tneeaet the Chancellor in an slier Hionso--to begin his lohours again, and for his Nehee Frieed who had intro duced the Bill to renew Lia redecontley of this measure, lice must pronounce his comairkoien that this would he Ph)"- g, cally impo a sibl e. a!,:,;er haviug giv e n three months Any rai e eo hili n tY s last Frek e y, s i nce such th of continitin and night :e.l - deliberation and discussion , &nee felt I 4:A m c e r r l ti o t nt n lie teast did ite i just twelve lie began hard w or k i n Laredo'', and during a?} t h at t i ne ,. he had enjoyed no wsiate or relazetiou, wish the excepmeots of two days. at Christmas and Easter, and even they were m hieay spent upon tbe road.—_(A taught.) During that been t,o, 2 ,: e ge r u,n io njut r o l nwy li tai e lol b nitt a a,t d vieeiel rreae; and s o t o c e c , c.sowautyrietheilhttfanhrto:glitioehltuso,iauxndetitOhdt a seven oi:.tosutt i aoly i d i 6 : ile l : m ea e atni n lio i ‘ i va. t .l,tl:ll:: .. l to reason, lie would throw himself on the good sutras;