The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-16 00:00:00

t he had not as lana.ia vc.P n of In!poo ytinc u iPte' l i e (ITect. tt ,hat vben M r. 1 to is duty to gate to whiett be ition.) or multi he the T at ) which J 3 ' n Mr. Pitt did no t omm i ttee --t o . information,,in 3aring) of the p!ali r car.) Right 11011011,ratt,, lot. iler a c harg es , etiti thes7 l it an t Chaplab. of answer be ol 'post sta ting di 3 t iectl e t o the feelings' ;. t he tight ll° n°ll t he nent, va et : le li r kelY . 31aimb wer nfort (mate aloc:_`, L i e h a d "00 ay Gallant 0 iger he gallant n 110 ie rrferred . d ad_ rd ; the,' .i,,,rs• 0 ,-. . !ding "'L, ~ s al ;ht to a c' ( ' ti the adjudicated that in sa y, •ening re;ao v„ td to u ' Ar c I h a d th" i c tin t ,, net, c ontra ono w Ono', bd) to aaY,,, of t the fee or,Sy ma k e oporo , 5 ut before he 1 tierl that ac t.. he had 07_4, An Hors. F 1,7 :4 it a statentenitm;. ronct. ' n of rtain inqulrrr-eO,. orate wa tti ` the a letter front el. plain o f the g a t. o :h ea presseeie tei% the Hen o f an oppotturne:tere. pore Cully b 'dr e prepare 0. t e o 'cats, and "tirj as he h ad "$ 11r• nth a". -I.en ( t t the f the Mr. Do or t hree that for any heath! Ftio no t calling or s that all fi d let, r e• e their e,": 1 0 ,0 • a bout 3 " jot ,„ ur , that " loth 'onversanott tio P should see ; unishnient. oar :hat 1 0 r . ro of overs'al r o de( ring - Off' ir.) • h e ld o n who to 004 d pne al Presc v oi t u pon 8 . ott ei* of the p ris i be doctrines o f 05 urn;cey!, an fo r in solitary e to tld not d j e loali the hauo o th e tesSed• doct rine inst the j e isle the na l° t tila t nll find p° r• w riter. rop ro• eeding l l n eat • ea6t e il l eA ) _( 'fear' th e the ! a s s Ina• "' r' 'tiog tided by ra p foe Tio n° ,,o wh ° , Oh o Rho w„ 11 14 )ot rneutOh'efore his nanl •Pi hit .qatea r a prison er o !hich !t. vain 13a 13af he, , .acct n na me d r 0- erl r i s o ,t two P t an d th a mr• chaPel• vi be) Ir. Du ne feh . ' rota dated d y S u " ' fret e th Psa lm of th e ine alitf vain fta le o ol ll 4 dav, a t - 00 1 ft and wh i,e e hOti r c ligion , / 7 ( NUOSIOO 0. arson sP e u tt ion rery Pe ! r t4 ° eeral 1 " wou on ld L I it v Lut her ; a :on clUde'" for A laug h . ) s 'os ck. I for the v COnt e° o rr e ,:f uals lie ( ) ;ire at C omm ee 00 a t ad s:at to sof ma t o k e st th e ,logy t l i e 11 4 0 caus e t varooof the nt rat at' 0E 43 ' l. l 11 1 ,1 1 ' 45 , lig;(lo°W ninittee%tste' at these the two° gs o , net he cell) O'C clij r . a fterf o e pt , e treat tli se" _ f ve iee, o o , with te t hey " defi tea rra d t tlO r ho , t , i 1 .1 1 ra ll• erY' ha bio , i t e ,ed hod ii%ths h.le e ,' i d b e° no 03 pre' ye .1, ;0 bel i: lre ' 1 %0 05 ' eo n , ' , g ,11• 3°: :bin; C a n ' ' e t ha"holi c ' ta „ Cat t y,ef ie d tha t for )licAtweoo, ;t l , be e° ,era e nn e. nou, tee men' _ 4 , oov erP e sc ob to 11 e the tto i"“ tf 4 er 31$je:od' • tbi i c re ha d or acct )ii blio• eo cietl bo ot tiQl ? e ject I° , ace well" ;ove r" , 63j ri ot Y€ lo ve to. the flori' l i ght t iir po a gld 10" °r ' Its' sbe( pi t° ,oft° l ' .. pe ' ,cep bu o 1 3064e1' f o f 111° t partt' l ::; ke o t' s * s thel"' e al a g e° ,. ,roile' • 1;• 110 ,art 'e t he pa rtiA l V , i t t a 3 t broolo:_o, ,t the rthire °l'. CO" - to. tra~ot° it)' t he h a ,{ they' by ,e 3 1 .011 , f act i/e s Of e rn i) h• ,Issat i t o ,01 a o o d ~ e t he ;v1 t o ecte caneetilt . ----.....„...,....—___________a. ......._ ca 4e Y et t i o . the, charge of another month's' delay before the trial tujo , - N . w it seemed to him (Mr. Buller . ) that sech a 1 ve t p tene, ''tight: be attended with a worse and more serious con ha a: , 1:. "' un derstood that on a 1 occasion when a pirty bad,ts * r P e r" f or an i mmediate trial before the Judges, it bad lhat '"' d ""les:s .orr ain conditiens were complied vi it h ~„,,„4, ~, Ouse ;.n the adMinistrazion of justice ohich had the attet " t ' i ebnenl . ) rard of; and.he therefore felt it is duty to cali tilat h, hiari.of,...tify House to the subject although he was aware %the R H g l •rett tat notice of such an intentian upon his part 4114 to tt With his duty Pan tnent n i t; liun: Baronet the Secretary for the Home De e°ostste - lie hoped the Right lion. Baronet mated think it to make an inquiry into the subject, Bard i.,,t t e t he House any information he possessed with ie :*' RAN al i bs'k er i , a i ( ES said it would be in his power to give an see t i ,, , ," some respects to the questions of the Hon. Member, lisrs kpuld nut be able to answer the whole of them. The I‘, l 'ieli 1 0 " : 1-) er had not stated the grounds of the information It ' i ', l leilt,"' ° • laid befor e the House, nor bad he stated whether a_Thediaitt;eienin,formation than the public at 1 irge were fur 0-vie, ti.._, toe columns of the newspapers of the day. The sterthan ea yericinee of the lion. and Learned Member r t : th e news': salliciently Satisfied him that the charge, as stated tis, :t b e a.wsl'sayers, could not be completely proved be . cause . h . ,sar e a, so se, that its Magistrates could, even If it acr heir ler) hadq s o se,vroceed in the manner which he (Mr. E. 1391- r ates t t o ,alert, and that it was not in the power of the Magis 41lin rieehide the jur: d . t . i of the Judges in the way 4 rly As,(Zhic illeniber 's ha 'e d m p l ointed out. Ile had very a t it sit not only that it was in the power, but 4 9; 2, teas the duty of the Judges, When they opened the Belatl,ssabitit.',4 deliver the rsaol, and no Magistrate could, hy any ala„ .i preclude the ' pox r which it was the duty of those s ' a 4 eXrrcj^ • .•1 which, e if t • did it would 4, 6 - ab an , , ~, ant. ti, ,itilti_tioo:i.nott of duty. He (Mr. liaokes) had not ..h al u iy f ~..„,or s ,to .the act which had-been the roun.o. i t krl, sn 4 ! . t which the Hon. and - Learned Member . has re :fiend!, k.s 't was hts intention to have applied to his lion h . t' t • ,:l'est t , ir . . whethe r he had received any informalion . with 1,i;: eUtlld ho,to,renmstances. alleged to have taken place , st, (lie o'" - taken place in the manner stated appeared to erstoroankes) to be perfactly incredible. He cou.d not, belie • 're riee , %If that the facts had been truly stated. With ties% h ad the other observation which the Right lion. Gen iitirk,rtnatistt detailed, he (Mr Bankes) could give some better o t 'l os n i n he t he House. It had been observed by the magis • L'atait• t e ottnty of Dorset, semongst whom he hod the s 7, 'ions, l a _ hold the place of Chairman of Qu.arter tae e t o , "at the expenses of a prosecution at - the As t° had tfl; increassd to an enormouso extent. He ..ecr toi , other day to the Clerk of the . Sessions, 'jai ler i„ It was the comparative expense of a trial at the ‘) a r it t r h t e l e t iti ) , l 6 l : e '°°_ , . It appean . ll from the reply that the charge ip i , e ~ e aa ,, , , ot a person be - ng tried was 161. 10s. At first sitaguirts, ease of the Bill for allowing a counsel to pram , s o' ba r • .was all that was (notorequired, for they all knew th e hlnstets required n ' othing) offered for the services I R,, th e 1 1 ) .1 ! ter. But the chares for the attorney, and draw t'skneas "e t !' To, made the charge amount to three or four I'' 14; , ' ''"is was so serious an rddition to the charge that ° : (4 ;' i'r , a ,. t tl of the county to which he belonged thought it li f"'el °- "lerr con'ideration • l'hey had addressed a re l'.sil'stii..alittea4ierarna..n.inication 'to the Judges, requesting them to toessmee of and Point out hat the it cases that really required the might be given in those t ' r r i 4 3 tris% l i' 1;111)Z they considered the number of cases sa.,4tia,VliaLracter, in which the . property affected was very h a 4 useh a 'ne nature of the offence slight, it was really a a ti ,p,' 'W I. ° to the country to pay 16/. for all such cases as lion,arti 'th r espect to the particular inquiry which . his Hon. h e d Friend now brouaht under the attention of the 1 4 h a , e ( Alta; k , as th „ a/hi, an espyould support it for his own satisfactioa 1', 3 oat() brother Mapistrates. It never was dreamt . . _of t s 4 ;:rer, h s eek to rid themselves of those new burdens which : icrril ' lA t e r ,, osted the Judges would not continue to impose ' „r• E . tr . than was necassary. es 1443, OstLEll. thought he had not overstated the facts t 5 5 - ,,,. /a Pli t:,,„ iSie had understood from a party on circuit, that St ryrso et , "" ' , ad been made, that those parties, against whom s, l 4 ta, atio''s aPpeared for the purpose of proceeding with the h e les et s hould be discharged. On this occdsion . the Pl'osqa stare dowu briefs to counsel, and ordered the parties to the 0 1 4 0 at the expense of the Crown. " Was then teed a first time. 41,. , ah„, ill. n th INCOME TAX. le :' , er • - '°SON wished to ask the Right Hon. Baronet tr ed It Was his intention that the income tax should be 411 a 4 , teTttersous receiving pensions chargeable or. the Con lat''.'t 11011'1,111, under the authority of Acts of Parliament. , e ltlt eet . ' R I PEEL said (as we understood) that it was h tole t l tr that the salaries of such officers, as the Hou. ki.l,,eir referred to, should be liable to the tax. He (Sir ths'4 o otZg r etted that the Hon. Gentleman had not given ti - 1 , 0 4 ,,iee - t ,_ ° ;',/ , ,e question. As he had so many questions on alt4We • k L 'ar, hear)—he would wish to be as accurate e l easa, 1 , 4 ; s his replies. He therefore trusted the Hon. 1 1.1,,,,. ht q ", 4 „nl Postpone pressing his question to Friday next. k tt 'oti t o ' O SON said he had no objection to postpone his f it off i t°ltiorrow (this day), but lie could not consent to e ls ?"' th,4rther, particularly as the time which would elapse tba t n ,Peow,, 4l ,tottle tax should come into operation was so shortarr.: ' "ad hardly time to make up their minds upon the c 'N.4:' `vivki, 0 b r tly EY said, that . really those questions were t ex- Nallhier Ong - s -4° Y to the Right Honourable Barone . 1 — lito r - `tealj ' 't oy way in which the Right lir. Gent c 'ettiss get rid of them was to give up the income tax 4, • (laughter.) bar • 13I•P r CHINA. to t i 4 het aa s . V% ITT wished to know from the Right Hon. s !s p oem her the Government had made up their minds as that'lr It, T a „nent occupation of Hong-Kong. flal'the diff er said that the Hon. Gentleman must be aware iiiltied:"aetir,iences .between this country and China were still 1 1 44 a rt „ v " Tending the war,. he s (Sir Robert Peel) must : (let t e r ng such a question as that now put by the etnan, 'eta' tOaati a , QUARANTINE. to et, 4l to the'uNG rose, according m ayhegtaciotts y v apieraesseod eittatitiatte ti!ffect, that her Maje . sty . si s , fro ta o s th 'le inquiries made in foreign countries as to the ei vi3O hi ° l ,Quarantine sattem, and to carry out any .. ne.go %., 15 1‘ ,. ;.' o ma.y have for their object such modificatien e s t. t;teeree istent with the public safety and the interests . - SlP4odea. ALSO' t o lay on the table of the House, any tot tr t. ' lij i ::: , pi* xtract; of correspondence, which has taken 't4"'neis o, toe last papers were ordered for presentation. It -Of Greatte she was tot of an entertaining nature, but it , 11 1 514 ,. L . s tit hi, ireportance, and he besought the patience of the t ° . "s he 5/ '' he laid before them the grounds on h„,toa. a proposed this resolution. A doubt as o i ' t 'sfor'rections nature of plague had lyen rreva tisilt.eeta th s° o l ,..e time previous to 1818, when a I C I ore : ai t , 'af If e 31 0 We was Ippninted to inquire into the a ega lo:,lllo.i,,,r„.vAbLean, a surgeon of eminence, whii had written I,,,,atiti ti, - i e that the plague was not infectious, and that ata,,,P , litt e 'news were unnecessary and mischtevous. That `~'t l a 1 piiorted that it was not advisable to repeal those the another Committee was appointed, which made Is If°hact onportant concessioa, that since the . year 6O; lo t ~l'i th a e 'is no instance of infection from plague in En g land. Ter"°e . a.,i 44hiet was brought before the British Association I N N 't t vflaneement of Sc' b and that important bodyre q't % . 14 1 ,1" t e ‘ Ineilical seetio le n n , " Who recommended that an at -1414t ' '''ssior i r °laic to induce the Government to appoint a (li t cl 'All in, .!. the purpose of prosecuting and completing a tit, 41, z "ligation of the subject.' The question was lately it, 4 sf p.great im „ portance, and when he considered the posi l4ess..Tar" 'thleh stood midway betwean this country and 11 11 1 - , l 'o °''' to the east and that in British India there ex thalleot,sl°arantines nr 1: . ts no impediment to the coM -o,- t r b a:t t..ascisrttrronavfllers, or ' z th a . e re co — no t te e s m 'ance of goods—hethought ti ' i, ' iay l / to K a against tht. t . s a y: el . i . n . g Ihe re was no difficulty 1 throogli Egypt to 'l'i ti t i i' 4l i rsas adra 't or o P th r e s r en parts r of India. In the East ladies the fa ll ''"ll o it a against the doctrine of contagion, and it was the' rise 11114". ye Me dicalpersons a mointed by the Governor._ 4 , __ inv e . ti . . , I st,,, s -tem ed - gate the subject, that lazarets and quaran- L ' 4, v "' s f ns " Seeltrity. It was obvious that the quarantine ts- ai p - great embarrassment" . to commerce, and it was not tet - tt r4 tit (' l ' s ° arty e stinate()fthe loss caused by it. He had tha lesalwstootial loss from the au o•antine system estimated-at 4 to„', 'No e ',arid three millions, and he believed if the losses . in si 1.1 :t. li atleati were added they would make up a similar :; . a ße 'll ()c r . ui t ' i :( l ., re .sel3 started from the same port, and one ti we th ey "` two months longer than the other in this ,' l. i 4 ll k, were subjected to the same quarantine, though it "tt s a4 Y ot ° wo that the longer the vessel was at sea the less ittiat,:itfror.,4agoelyikely to be - conveyed by . it. lie received a :'mV i\llh the House whose authority would be of great 'alt ; t 'saaS 4 '411 n S epteth • P lB4l He stated that he sailed ,ilhetvaliatil hl lsith troops from Candia, and that the ''' t l i ! 17 a e n Put into quarantine ttll the 23d ; N qie 'al's. He also stated that great credit was til:'; anT:ialterice with which they submitted to the inconve -4,14 f fle d h er dded that ever one knew the irksomeness and tit4t-ee. lii,,qantine and the y consequent retardation of the tetstwitath"tniral Sir John Oliver left Candia at the same 4 :is * 'itt jeh.Yelops Steamer. The Cyclops arrived at Malta * II I ' 11. 1, l'i ti -, ,5 4 °liv er dth time was calculated for her h l a 4 s t ' ak 'i a .4 , di: ~,0 t" admittedau to pr e atique before Sir John Oliver t i t i t taaior arrive until some days after the steamer, so ie aasoe, Stereutfitters, who hail left Caudia at the same time h ho 19.1',"*Iinttpe,ini"Ying themselves on shore some days before Ors s ; hes, ''' tu land. Again, the steam-ship Stromboli ars - ter I ' 44 un it orl September,. ' within twenty-four ( I, -tit a ,, th e i , •le ... hni Se of ,4 o werfal had left Beyrout, but not having the e llh s 4t er 'Le ato, she had not reached Malta until many ia g il ei rrS4 l 4 tli, "It°l.o troinholi•. The Powerful was as 16, 4 aro, Yet, -„ P°oo ll, and had left, within 24 . hours of c . ael f t I,3's L'l at ' V I `','lsttiuen ce of the difference in the time o Ise tos,„asfor, ' i s•atta the Stromboli bad pratique granted to her x 4 . 1 1 1, t :ts, , '1" P owerful. Much of this was attributable to site rap t aitret:26 e ialeatasons who had a pecuniary interest .d o .°ll lfikl i I,"ee 0' that ' quarantine system, and lie agreed til4anttiria,tll'shper:onsthat it would be . cheaper and better to pen taw %gat," pr ese _ to th e third and fourth gereration, than to Per ' P'l): he - 4.0 s Ystsm. As a proof of •the working of to ta 1, t 5 th at „tod state that it appeared from the w:t:ttilina;:ittetrhren 41"ee..authori'ties in that island had thought kir°. r,, t4 ktiht ~,,118,ttua,rantine of vessels arriving from Lou isa. 4 ° the 'alas ° 2 5 days, and the reason given for this ha ste 4, w it t irne forr4tlpoe a.uthoritii s at Marseilles had refused , to Nlat' .l 4ll, 4 1 , 1 y t o a o i_°wlats vessels pratique. At Leghorn he Stn," 4 ' a 'rast"- Hat the and the Austrian Government had 1 : 4 - p ' o ° l i f t he ij a e s u the length of quarantine at Trieste; all tes t i ' 3 li 'tube they had removed it ether. L I ha lt %a y 1°- Friends whom he saw aroutal him could li 413 of l : I e s t 4 the extreme personal annoyances to . which '' tt n i l ' ' 4 4, 4 l ar ftoi n ee e t f 3 who had - unfortunately fallen into the la r ,i,ol t 6 4y s, of., ur ictionaries. It was' a history of priv . a s- - a si : l e i tL ei iee nt i v o e , t ho u v t i x e. P , e , n n t s r a o , i t i i e f d ob a s n tr d uc ir ti r o e n si s ,c, o n f s e ih v i c e r . y si o i . rt, of di 1 '1.. 4 4 2 °. Nth 4 vi Intelligmt nations could have th t4l l, -4 :4 aro s Y` t ern• Iti Malta there was a strict qopo g i s: n e e n their l :4,N oo.:.o,seerevsalss. use Algiers and Northern , Africa. 1 he 1 0 4 ttrri si Ciateen...,"ere against Oriental countries not under It s ',titr e „ 41 4 fraitiTiot, relaxed that severity in the ease of aieB4khit'''''odette- ''''l•tiers. On the ground of public health *e at exa tta.l y t i„ t e of all countries on arriving at the Levant, 4 '4 re. l° 'oed i ate ll• Fie had seen despatches of ;he Govern a. t ter a ' We'd Ik e Part' .- -- 1),....- aiid and f tairentary papers, after which they l h , " 1 iti • 41 oen t "'warded to their 'dace of destination. I '' ' l Y %I. tse vit ' e g'r ttar'°us operations. Sometimes country th e y, th e i sea rce l y 3 that when they arsived in tlii et,i N tli g-'4, 4 4 ll iiu ns beeigible ; sometimes they were 111 h Itali c t tera ,Y arriveong made. with a sha'p instrument; arid qa,i'el t t , th ere 2 ,at their destination in a dilapidated a t4 atititere sts v:Se'ual be ro doubt that political objects and e ), ilea w 11, felt re great causes of the severity of i o _ Th e ( Pla ra q N oce Ptersuadcil that a'most all the tote: ests .a f i 44s, R,, llerit t it t i , e had n r..ated in and represented t hy her agen... th e i 'ee 4 a ;lea s re. °nen been relaxed for political hurl eases . . is ' , at 01.'-'n sto ser l!'ating the plague were connected with t 4 the co' "alen• In some coultries, as in Italy. fseteddisek°l,Ai.ta.t4ng,i)lovnof plithisis was as strong as . th ‘ atof h e. oa rs° , ita,, it h...., a.nowit that persons were seta with with poses ‘,1' 3 . ! Il e _"` e ` o u t :g bad any communication wit ., in : sai l , ' at ed, oich the __% ionet some extraordinary rep I,s of a t _!,to wil led re „, 4 gue had been stated to hare been coin ' opt ;__ 1 " asp s :'''i a return of the number of deaths, from ' 44 olit ' fl the ' i n Const • le. ia,„ ed t_ year , antino, lt appeared that . the tle ti t ' , lir a „ a u . 45,,,, t4 ,. to that city, from ordinary diseases, rner i li til t e lirt lon ettf %deaths by tlie plague, 1,160: of these a th,' l t at al ,' houses wi th l eases were those who were found at' ti ' , oino er i th, averut having received any medical treat ct,i,,,' Cit y tia,eked, average Mortality being about two-thirds of , t , 41 1 of the llg th e _ this ishes‘-'l° w ere Yea r:7, l47 ; 4 e season was less than . at the otl7 ° We. it 3 m ' 'tae months of September and uct. - 'e 5e,.... 0 , many deaths as during the plague months. '%5 connected with the subject which gave • grounds for the opinion that the belief of the contagion of the plague had been very much exaggerated. He believed that there was no instance of the plague haVing been carried Pam Erupt to India, nor frOtn Egypt to Mecca and the Holy Cities. When the plague appealed in the armies of the Kest, they were always removed to the &seri, and, he believed, there was no instance of the armies having been removed to the open d:- triets, without a complete cessation of the plague resulting. People in this country were oft. n alarmed at receiving letters or bales of goods from the Levant, tut it was well known that these kind of articles were sold in the public bazaas - s in the East and the Mussulmans bought them ; it was detracting nothing from their value that they had been in the poss. ssion of people who had died of the plague. He nombcrcd, when he was in Asia Minor, that in the neighbour hoed of Smyrna there were four villages much afflicted with the plague; there was a constant communication between them and that great city, yet there was no instance of plague iu Smyrna. The same was precisely the case with regard to Cairo. lie would now advert to the lezarets. He held in his hand a letter which he had received froth an eminent traveller with reference to the violation of quarantine in the south of Spain. In that letter the gentleman asked if he thought that he would Iss such a fool as to subject himself to an imptisenment of several weeks because he had been in I Afri a; he had never entered a lazaret and never would. He held in his hand a series of answers to questions a,,{. dressed by the Consul at Alexandria to medical men established at Cairo. The first question was, what was their opinion of quarantine? To this they answered that quarantiee was estabished to prevent the plague from penetrating into Egypt, but they believed the system of quarantine to be without utitity. In answer to questions he had put to Dr. Allen, an English gentleman, in the service of Mehemet Ali, he was informed by him that the plague might be considered, to a certain t e pee, as indigenous to Egypt. Ile did not believe that country was ever entirely f ce from it, but be had never known it to be imported. It was ascertained, he said, that. even post modem examinations had been taken without conamunicating. the 'dis ease. That was the statement of a - gentleman thoroughly acquainted with the subject. He read another passage to show how insecure our protections were, if the' disease were what it was said to be. The passage was to the effect, that's number of bales of cotton was sent to EnglaA, which bad been taken from stores where the plague was raging, and the plague Was on board the . ship when the cotton was pa bed. Now, if no disease were imported, in cases of this kind, which frequently occurre d, wou ld any man i n hi s Senses helieVe that the plague was an imported infection? If the result of an inquiry should show that the quarantine restric tions could be disiensed with, or mitigated without danger to the public health, het' Majesty's Government should endeavour to bring about arrangements for the purpose of effecting a consumma ion so advantageous to commence. He concluded by moving the resolution. Sir ROBERT PEEL said he had no objection to offer to the motion, and accordingly it was agreed to. THE SCOTCH CHURCH Sir A. LEITH HAY said he had considered it is duty to call the attention rf the House to the present state of the Church of Scotland. He did that upon no principle of sectarian partir.nship, and for no political or party purposes; but, however, connected es he was with that coun try, he felt that if that state of things which at present existed, and which had unfortunately existed for many years, was suf fered to continue, it would not only be detrimental to the esta blishedehurch f Scotland, but injurious to the best interests of the country. He was especially induced to bring forward the subject by the unsatisfactory answer which had been given; at the commencement of the Session, to a question put by his Right lion. Friend, the Member for Perth to the Right Hon. Baronet, the first Minister of the Crown. In reply to that ques tion, the Right Hon. Baronet stated, that if he did determine upon putting an end to the differences which existed between the Ecclesiastical and the Civil Courts in Scotland, he would gve ample notice of his intention. ' t hat produced a laugh in the House.. The Right Hon. Baronet proceeded to state, that he would not pledge himself to bring forward any • measure on the subject, and he concluded with stating that he would give no pledge that he would not introduce such a measure. In these unfortunate circumstance s, if he thought there were one of more influence in the Ilouse, likely to bring this ques tion forward, he would not have intruded; but living it. the midst of the heats, animosities, and confusion excited by these circumstances, nothing could be more derogatory to his duty as he thought, than to remain sile n t w h en h e had an opportu nity of expressing his feelings.—( Hear, hear.) Ile was not about to enter into long historical details respecting the Church of Scotland ; nor did he mean to in rude his own particular opinions ; but he would prefer, uoting authentic documents to show what others, whose opinions were entitled to the highest weight in the country, on former occasions expressed, with ad miration, of the Church of Scotland as an establishment worthy of every protection and support. First, he would refer to the Report of a Committee of that House, and which the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government would re member that Report said, "No sentiment had so deeply impresseed itself on the minds of the Committee, in the course of a long and laborious investigation, •as that of veneration and respect for the Established Church of Scotland." Next, he would quote the individual opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet res pecting the Church of Scotland. It was in these words---" He considered it a most important and useful instrument for pro pogating true religion ; suited to the country, with reference to its past history, and its present condition, and calculated to maintain those principles of order and tranquility which were insecure unless based on a sense of religion." this was the Establishment that was, now suffering accumulated misfor tunes, and was the British Legislature to look on without at tempting to apply some remedy to circumstances which were appalling to every lover of his country.--( Hear. ) and every one that had its best interests at heart? It was not for him to mark out the particular line of duty which the Government and the Legi:lature ought to adopt, but he thought that the time had arrived alien it was absolutely nceessal to legislate in a prompt, effectual, and final manner to settle this question. It was known to many Members of the House and to to the country generally, that the establishment of the Church of Scotland with regard to the power of presenting; minis ters, was fixed by the Act of the 10th of Queen Anne, passed in 1711; that act est abllehed the right to present to parochial churches is lay patrons without reservation. That act had been acted on for may years, ever since in fact, without question, until the the question of the right of patronage was challenged by certain persons, who foe med an association in Scotland, called the Anti-Patronage Society—the date of that seciety was 1824, but it was not till ten years after, in 1834, that it acquired any im portance, when the Supreme Ecclesiastical Court passed an act, called the Veto Act, for the purpose of giving the people a voice in the choice of their own minister, which was not consistent, as was held by the Civil Courts,' with the act on which the law rested. It was impossible to read these two acts without coin ing to the eonc4usion that they could not coexist with good Go.. vernmcnt, sound policy, and the stability of the Church. If such was the position of things, could it be possible that the Legislature would allow the people of Scotland to remain in str.h circumstances: He was not arguing the case on his -own authority. It must be known to Members of the House that the first authorities pointed out the absolute necessity of legislation on the subject. The first person he would quote was Lord Aberdeen, who said, in his place in the House of Peers, on the 31st of March, 1840:—" It appears to be so clearly the duty of her Majesty's Ministers to propose a measure to Parlia ment upon a question so immediately effecting the peace and good order of the community, that .1 take it for granted the responsible advisers of the Crown will not abandon a duty so imperative." That was the opinion of Lord Aberden in Marcia 1840. On the 19th of June Lord Aberdeen said, in the House of Lords, that he thought the then existing state of things in relation to the Scottish Church, justified their Lordships in looking to her Majesty's Government for some interference. That was the opinion of the present. Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs. The next opinion which he should quote regarding the state of the e cutch Church, was the opinion of one whose name he could never mention without the deepest feelings of venera tion—he meant the Duke of Wellington.--(Cheers.) 'The Duke said, that if the Kirk were disposed to listen to mode rate councils, he did not apprehend there would be much diffi culty in bringing the matter to a settlement. He (the Duke of Wellington) thought the Kirk should recollect that its uti lity depended in a great measure upon its intimate connexion with the State ; and the Noble Duke went on to state that lie considered it desirable that the Kirk should state clearly what course they proposed to adopt, in ceder that it might be made the sul jest of an Act of Parliament. And the. Noble Duke concludee by stating, that in better times (no doubt meaning when himself and his friends should be i n ' , weer), with good ' men, actuated by good intentions, it would by no means be impossible to come to a satisfactory settlement of the ques tion. These were the strong testimonies he had to offer as air • excuse for himself, in calling upon the Government of the country not to hesitate in doing something fur the settlement of this question, before it should be too late. He (Sir A. L. Hay) would allude to one other testimony that of the Right lion. Baronet at the head of the Government, who in July,lB4o, had given it as his opinion that the session ought not to be suffered to pass over without the Government pro. posing some legislative measure on the subject. And the question had been left unsettled up to the present moment, and • he hoped the House would indulge him while he pointed out to them the manner in which this subject. was operating on the Established Church of Scotland. For his own part he ( Sir A. L. Hay) had never interfered at all in the unfortunate dtf ferences which at present divided the Church. He had de clared no opinion which could be construed into partisanship for one side or the other. He had never stated any other opinion than this, in saying which he had no fear of contradice tion, that things could not be allowed to . remain long as they were. The first thing that occurred upon the passing of the Veto Act was the case of Auchterarder. In that case the Civil and the Ecclesiastical Courts disagreed. A clergyman was inductee against the almost unanimous voice of the parisioncrs. In that case the General Assembly interposed, anti excited what they felt to be their rights. But in that cause they wele condemned by the Civil Courts. '1 he next circumstance of importance was the well known case of the . parish of Marnoch. There again, a clergyman was inducted against the almost unanimous decision of the Assembly, ie ho were again opposed by the Civic Courts. '1 he Commissien of the Assembly suspended, and ultimately deposed the clergy men in these instances; and sent into the par shes other clergy men who officiated, not in the parish churches, (which were in the possession of the deposed persons) but in other places in the parishes. The difference in these persons was, that they were out of the pale of the Ecclesiastical Court, and n possession of the temporalities, and supported by the civil authorities, but they were nor recognised by the other Court. This was not a ques tion connected merely with the Church, but it was a question connected with the observance of the law. There was another feature he had to mention, in connexion with this most unfortunate controversy ; which was the case of a very learned and remarkable man in the Church of Scotland. lie alluded to a minister in Edinburgh, Mr. Candlish. This very eminent man was on the eve of being established in the Chair of Biblical Criticism. Ile had acted nitheut the order of his Ecclesiastical superiors, and had gone to the rat ish of Huntley, and tht re performed Divine service, in opposition to the interdict of the Court. The consequence was, he never - receive.( his appointment; and, in fact, so far as pueisliment was concerned, he was the. only person who had been punished for his opposition to the -civil law. If he had acted wrong, the snerely.withholding the place was not sufficient. If the civil 'sewer was strong enough to take it up, they ought to have carried it still further.—(Hear.) In his opinion, there ought to be no uncertainty either one way or the other. 'lt was not enough to tell him that her Majesty's late Government did not take up this question. lie was sorry the Right lion. Bar o net, th e Fir t M in i s ter of the Crown had not been apt to take example of the Noble Lord near him, but he (Sir A. L. Hay) did hope he would see the necessity of doing something on this subject. The next sate to which he would allude was one which had recently occurred, and which was one of an extraordinary description, viz., the case which occurred in the parish of Culsamund. In this case there was not the slightest necessity fee any steps being taken. These was a vacancy- in the parish,' anti the person who hid been established had been there for seven years; he acted in the capacity of assistant. An assistant was merely a temporary person in the parish. This Gentleman had. acted in the capacity for seven years, and all at once it appeared nece,sary that he should be made assistant to another parish. It was in conse quence of this appointment that the disgraceful scenes which had been referred to had taken place. It was understood by the sheriff of the county and by the civil authorities, that a riot was likely to take place in consequence of the appointment. The sheriff, the head of the police, and twelve of the rural police, and a large body of constables were assembled on the spot. There was a large assemblage of persons not only from 'the particular parish, but from the surrounding parishes, prin cipally accumu l ated by the feeling of curiosity. 'the people got into the church, and filled every avenue, and prevented the clergyman who was to perform the service from doing so. The pulpit was occupied by the people. The consequence was the clergyman, and the Pres- THE SoN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY EVENIGI MARCH. 16 1 1842 bytery retired to another place, and there performed the ser vice. Most of the people who were there in the forenoon retuned to their respective houses, but in the evesin; another body of people came, and great tumult ensued. Now, under these cireum- Minxes, use of two things occurred; either the Sheriffs were ab sent, or being present, deserted the r authority. his occurrence took place on the 11th of November, and 'rem that time until the 30th of the month, not a single step was taken %A id) respect to this transaction. The consequence was, that in that part of the country the people conceived they had gained a victory, and exulted in the feeling that they had prevented the settle ment of the question, and had overawed the police. On the 30th of the month a meeting was convened and took place, and resolutions were passed, requesting the Secretary of the Home Department to take some steps on the subject. On the 21st December an examination took place, and many witnesses were examined, and ultimately four persons were committed to gao . Er this outrage, end ore of those persons was the one who ha, occupied the pulpit in the church. Those persons, he believed ; were now out on bail, and they would he b, ought to trial. He wished to put it to the Government whether such things ought to be tolerated. history showed that the people of Scot. land were not easily roused to outrage; but history also told them that in anything connected a ith their religious rites, they could be excited to the utmost. extent, and being once excited, were not easily put down. lie ( Sir A. L. Hay) had lived for the last tivo years in the heart of the county where these disturbances took place. He was not advocating either one party or the other. lie believed they had both aced in consistently, and if so, then there was the greater necessity for some steps to be taken for an eeuitable adjustment of the case. The next was one that bad recently occur, ed, and he would shortly state it, to point out the working of the system under the present. law. The gentleman he had re - erred to had re cently departed this life. The person who had b.en ap pointed in his stead, he (S r A. Leith Hay) had known for many years, and than whom there was not a more !earned man to be found. He was presented to the parish by the Duke of Richmond, who was the patron. It was urelerstoo among the congregation that the appointment wa• likely to cause a tumult, and in consequence of that he, Majesty's Government ordered troops to pass from Aber. deco, thirty or forty miles, for the purpose of hein in the neighbourhood in case any violence was attempted. Now this was a most extraordinary state of things. The Noble Patron on whose property this parish was, and who R-as the representative of the most powerful family in the north, he himself, on a former occasion, stated it as his opinion that no Howe of Parliament could, consistently with its duty, refuse to, take this, subject into its consideration. That was the opinion of the Duke of Richmond. Hit wag necessary to have a mi litary force in the neighbourhood to sheet the settlement of a parochial minister, they might depend upon it the country was not in a proper state. There were seven ministers repudiated b, the General Assembly. These men were not held by the ecclesi astical law to have any connexion with the church. He himself was the patron to two of the clergymen, and he wished to see a fair settlement. There were no less than seventy ministers who were considered to be under the ban of the General Assembly. The notice he had given was for correspondence connected - .vitt the settlement of the question between these ministers. Ilt did not mean to say that the Government had acted contrail to principle, but ha would say the Right I Ton. Baronet, the Se cretary of State for the Home Department, had not conduct& the matter 111 a straiohtforWard scanner. In consequence e the vacancy he had altuded to, a memorial was sent to him (Sir A. L. Hay,) for the purpose of being presented to the Secre tary for the Home Department, and he did so, anti the answer he received was, that they must make in quiries as to whether such a vacancy had taken place. The filling up of the vacancy was pet off until the present Go vernment came into office, and when they did come into office. he (Sir A. L. Ha) wrote to the Right H on . B arone t, a t t h e head of her Majesty's Government; but in some time after the Right Hon. Baronet replied, stating that he was not prepared to say what her Majesty's Government would do. After that it was useless to write again to the Right Hon. Baronet, ba he (Sir A. L. Hay) thought that the wishes and wants of the people should be attended to. He did not stand there to vin dicate the principle of intruding clergy upon the people con trary to their wishes. The people of Scotland undoubtedly had a right to select their ehrgy, and they had a right ts see who were the clergymen that the Government appointed to take charge of their spiritual concerns. He would sustait the laws as long as they existed, but to say that the Act o. Queen Anne should be repealed and leave nothing in its stead was a proposition which he would not support; at the same time it was his determination on all occasions to support the people -in their rights to see who. their clergymen should be.. He thought he should 'he degenerating from his duty if he did not do what he had then done ; and in conclusion be should entreat the Right Hon. Baronet to settle the question boldly, and according to the dictates.of reason, of justice, and of common sense. An Hors. Meateex on the Ministerial benches asked tit Hon. and Gallant Officer to- explain what he considered th " dictates of reason, of justice, and of common sense."— ( Much laughter.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM never had approaehed any subject with greater delicacy or hesitation than that which had been brought forward by the Hon. and Gallant Officer,_ because he felt that a great and heavy res p ons ibilit y rested upon him (Sir James Graham); he felt that responsibility more deeply lest any thing which should fall from him on that oscasiot should aggravate or increase the evils which already existed. When notice had been given of the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer, very great doubts were entertained about it; however, he (Sir J. Graham) remembered when Sir Georg. Sinclair brought forward a motion upon the subject, in 1824 the Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir A. L. Hay) was one of his most strenuous opponents. The last occasion the lion. and Gallant Officer addressed the House was on the 9th of June, 1834; then the Hon. and Gallant Officer stated that he had several petitious to present from Scotland, and that the prayer of those petitions was that no alteration should be made in th, Church Law of Scotland. Upon that occasion the Hon. and Gallant t Meer stated that the most rational and the most re , spectable people in Scotland were not only attached to the Established Church there, but also to the way in which that establishment was conducted. The Honourable and Gallant Officer was then satisfied with the state of the law, and had passed a glowingeulogium upon the Church of Scotland. He (Sir J. Graham), though not a member of the Church of Scotland, should say that Trent his earliest age he had had an opportunity of knowing and seeing the influence which tha Church exercised upon every ;lass of society, and he was bourn to say that he could never speak of that Church without fed ing the moat deep and marked respect for it.—( Hear, hear. ) He had always seen the clergy of that Church contented with very moderate endowments--( Hear)—and though their en dowments were moderate, they were ever active and efficient in the discharge of their duties.—( Hear.) The clergy of that Church were a most exemplary body of men.— ( Hear.) and no one could doubt that they had exercised a most salutary influence upon the character, the morals, and the habits of thi people of Scotland, which made them rsmarkable as the most enlightened and moral people of the whole world.--( Hear. He (Sir J. Graham), therefore, felt bound to entert a i n tin deepest feeling of respect for the lergy of the Church of Scot land ; at the same time, he regretted to see that very unhappy differences had occurred in it.—(Cries of " Hear, hea r ,") Ile perfectly agreed with the Honourable and Gallen' Officer that if it were possible, those differences should be put • an end to as soon as possible, and he should say he never listened to a speech with more attention than he had listened to that of the lion. and Gallant Officer; but he should par don him (Sir J. Graham) if he added that he had never heard a speech from which he had derived less sat sf et.ion than he had derived from it.—( Hear and laughter.) The lion. and Gallant Officer said it was impossible that things could be left as they were ; that something should be done ; but what that " something" should be the Hon. and Gallant Officer di, not give the lea s t i n kli ng or idea. The Gallant Officer talked of the late Government an.l the debates upon th, subject in 1840, with the speeches of Lord Aberdeen, the Duke of Wellington, and the Right Honour able Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government. However, the Hon. and Gallant Officer had dropped some • thing, in which he (Sir ./.• Graham) agreed. He said that the question might have been settled three years ago, much better than it could be settled now.—(Chters from tire Mini sterial benches.) That which was possible and wise three years ago, might be utterly impossible and impracticable now. The Hon. and Gallant Officer referred to what Lord Aberdeen: said, but he (Ed nut allude to what Lord Aberdeen did ; what ever Lord Aberdeen said, he recommended the late Govern ment to settle the question as soon as possible, and, not con tent with that advice, he introduced a measure, in the hop of settling it—a mea s u re w hi ch, though it was calcu lated to satisfy moderate men upon all sides, did not meet with or receive very encouraging suppr t. The Duki of Wellington said, in 1840, that it moderate counsels were attended to, the question would have been settled, but it was because there was no disposition to attand to moderate noun eels that the question could not he settled. So it War that th H ght Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government said, in 1840, that an attempt should be made to settle tin question, and, acting upon that opinion, he supported the motion of Lord Aberdeen. It was necessary to remind the House, that in 1841 the Right lion. Baronet (Sir 11. Peel, had given the same advice which he bad given in 1840. The Hon. and Gallant Officer said, that the question was whether the law should be obeyed or not. Upon that subject there could be no doubt.. He (Sir J. Graham) entirely agreed with the Gallant Officer, that the law should be obeyed;' it was the determination of her Majesty's Government that it should be obeyed; and it was their resolution to insist with firmness but without violence, that the laws should be obeyed. The non. and Gallant Officer 'also said that the existing laws could not be co-existent with the., law of Anne ; in that he (Sit .1. Graham) also entirely' agreed. Ile also agreed that the Veto Act could not preva 1 over the law of the land, but the lion. and Gallant Gentleman aid it wss necessary to legisla'i promptly and finally on the subject, and lie asked whether her Majesty's Government intended to do so new? there were any doubts on certain points in the law of the land there were at present actions of the greatest impo-tance de pending in the Scotch Courts, and a ..ceision upon those actions would go far to settle the question in dispute. If there was any time when it was more inopportune than another to legislate upon the subject, it was the present moment. :The decision of those actions would go far to ascertain the state of Vie law ; and certainly it was, for many reasons, inopportune for the Legislature now to interpose. The lion. and Gallant Offi cer stated that violence should not be allowed to triumph over the laws of the land. In all that he (Sir J. Graham) agreed. The Hon. and Gallant Office would insinuate that there was something variabli in the conduct of the Government in the three or four particular cases to which he had alluded. the permission of the House he would shortly touch on those cases. In the case of Culsalmond, from the violence of the proceedings, the civil force had heel overborne, and the Hon. and Gallant Officer had complained that it was seine time be fore steps were taken to bring the effenders on that occasion to justice. But the regular steps had been taken, and four offend s were now about to take their trial before the Supreme Court of Scot'and, and, pending their trial, he (Sir James Graham) would not prejudice the course of justice. The Hon. and Gallant Officer had mentioned the Presbytery of Strathbogie ; in that ease a violent settlement had been anticipated; and the Government resolved that violence should not triumph over law. Then again, the Hon. and Gallant Member had referred to Elgin, and he (Sir J. Graham) had certainly been surprised to hear that he made any objection to the course which he ( Sir J. Graham) had pursued on that presentation. The Hen. and Gallant Officer had passed a very just culogium on the manner it) whic't his (Sir J. Graham's) Right Hon. Friend (Sir R. Peel) had distributed the patronage of the Church of Scotland. On the lath of August., 1333, on the debate on Hobkirk pa rish, the Hon. and Gallant Officar said I cannot help taking this opportunity. as a Member from Scotland, of ex pressingunqualified approbation of th e way i n w hi ch the ra lightllon. Member for Tamworth exercised the' church patronage in Scotland when in his hands. It appears that in this instance there was adivision among the her;tors, six being on one side, and three on the other. Under thes: circumstances, the rule laid do - en by the former Secretary of State became applicable, namely, that unless the heritoss could agree in the nomination, the living' should not be givers to ei th er candidate." There was a de cided division of opinion amongst the herif ors o f El g i n, and he (Sir J. Graham) had acted on the principle laid down by the lion. and Gallant Officer himself, and bad nominated a stranger. That stranger had not been rejected. He, on the • part of the Crown, had presented an Individual, who he had reason to believe was s.n et cry ground eligible, not for patron age, but in the discharge of the sacred duty which dev o lv e d upon him, and he (Sir J. Graham) had made that election on the best information which he could obtain. That strae ger had had an harmonious settlement in Elgin, and the principle which the Honourable and Gall an t Offi cer re comm-ended, and on which his Right Hon, Friend had so long,. _ .• hscl met with the approbation of the inhabitants. Now he was quite prepared to say, that every effort having teen made by her 1 1 Iajesty's Cove:lament, during the recess, is it had been made before, in the year 1840, 'by the Earl of .kberdeen. to settle the question—that was to say, by a de claratory 1 iw, by which there might be reasonable txpecta don of obtaining the sanction of moderate men, and gene rally the support of ti e people of Scotland, and having reason to believe that no such measure could be introduced with any prospect of success, h er M a j esty ' s Government h a d come is the decision —and they c'eeply regretted there could be at permanent a dj ustment of th i s great ques tion—that necessary not t o attempt legislation on the -übj , et, but to stand by th e l aw of the land, as it had been de prese it present was no de fined by the Supreme Co ur t. O n the vi hobs,. therefore, after the best attention to the question, and after the utmost deli beration which his sense of duty directed to it, agreeing, as he did, with the remark made by Lord Melbourne, that he was satisfied with the law as it Low stoo3, he (Sir J. Graham) was prepared to defend it on the responsibility of the Go vernment, and would not consent to a delegation of the re sPon-ibility -to a Committee of that House. Having 'said thus much, he should sit down with saving he could not con sent to the motion of the Hon. and. Gallant- Member opposite. —( llear, hear. ) Air. FOX AULE said he,took a very different view of the law, as at present established, from that entertained- by the Right lion. _Veronet who had just sat down. The feeling tha ead been opened up to-night was one of such vast extent, tl:at n addressing himself to the question—perhai s it would be the ally opportunity he might have of addressing himself to it—the onlyopportunity, because he had learnt, from what had fallen rum the Right Hon. Baroset, that it was not the intention ,f Government to attempt in any wsy to legislate on this sub ject; and as he (Mr. Fox Maule) anticipated no snecs s at an attempt at leg:slation without the. support of the Government, -he party, if party they called it, but which he denominated the Church of Scotland itself, maintained that by the established 'aiv of Scotland, from the year 1567 to t h e present year, the Presbytery hada distinct independent spiritual jurisdiction se cured to them by Act of Parliament, with which, according to th e Act of Union, neither Court of Law; nor Parliament itself, sould interfere. He completely concurred in that opinion, and if the House would permit, he would trace the various statutes through which this power was acceded to the Church. In the y ear 1567, the first year of the Ger.eral Assembly of the ancient Oresbyterian Church of Scotland, which was held to take steps Or the framing of articles on the subject of jurisdiction; and to submit them to the Parliament, one of those articles was this —" That, to this our Kirk be granted, and by this Parliament secured, such privileged jurisdiction and authority as appertains to the true Kirk, and that no authority be acknowledged other than that allowedby this Kirk." This evidently appeared to have been the foundation of the Act of the year 1567, and that Act proceeded to state, that by the King's permission; and with the advice of the Prince Regent and the three Es ates of Parliament, no place of worship was legal other than that Ithe favour of God established in the realm, and that no juris tic-ion other than that of the Church could be held in the Church. T he Act then set far.h other articles relating to piritual jurisdiction. Such was the Act which first settled the si.eshyterian Church by the statute 111 V of the land. In 1579 .hat Act was ratified. In 1581, the Act of 1567 was also re ified and approved. 'I hen came the Act of 1592, which in se 116:h chapter also ratified, that Act. Here, then, we had -he undoubted establishment of this independent and spiritual -urisdiction. But then had our ancestors no idea that it was possible that this spiritual jurisdiction might interfere with the civil jurisdiction? He thought they had, for, in the very text chapter of the same Act, the statute provided that, where he Civil Courts refused to accept the presentee of a iatron, the stipend should be given to the patron, and 'it it should be lawful for the patron to retain the tole funds of the benefice in his own liands.—( Hear, hear, iy this it clearly gave the power to the Church On'the o ne ,and of appointing and ordaining its own Ministers, and on he other hand it gave a distinct satisfaction to the patron for he injury done to him if his presentee should be rejected He bought this Act established clearly the independent jurisdic ion of. the Church. But they might be told that no case ever eccurredin Scotland where the civil benefice and the cure of sou7s were separate. lie thought he had an opinion or two on hat subject which bore upon the question. The first was in the year 1798, where the patron attempted to stop the or dinatioa of another man—this the Court would not allow. The next case was in the year 1749, when an application to a similar effect was made, and the Court would not meddle with it ; accordingly the Judge, on that instance, stated that these was no law in Scotland to compel the Presbyterian to maintain the presentee. Lord Kaimes said that the man appointed by the faction was dc facto• the minister of the pa rish. Nothing could be more clearly laid down up to the year 1749 than that the Court of Session distinctly recognised, by their independent spiritual jurisdiction, that Church Courts might bring a person into a parish, and the Civil Courts, on the other hand, could not alter the appointment in any way, but the civil benefice would be separate from the cure of souls, anti the parish would be left in the somewhat strange position of one man drawing the stipend and another serving the cure. Such Was the law of Scotland, and they had to deal with the law as established. He would now follow out the Acts from 1592 ; the Act of James rescinded the Acts of 1549, but they were again resumed by Charles the Second in 1562. He would pass over that, and come to the time when the Presbyterian religion was established at the Revolution. In 1689 Episcopacy was abolished, and in 1690 all the acts relative to the Presbyterian religion, establish• g it on the footing which, as had been stated, recognised all is privileges, were again passed, and became, as now, the established law of the land ; and no act had been passed inter tug with that till the act, commonly called the Act of Queen Anne, and he must say there never was an act of l'arliament so foully imposed on the people as this Act. Ile must say that the more he looked at that Act, the more he considered the character of those who passed it, and the more to considered the means by which it was passel, he could not help having a . conviction that this assault on the - liureh of Scotland was in point of fact a conspiracy on ,he part 'of Queen Anne and those who passed it, -o overturn the Protestant religion of this country, dow had this Act been passed ? It was brought into the Commons and passsed through it so rapidly that there was lot time between the bringing of it in and the passing of it, to eommunicate with Scotland, and not till after the Bill was in he Peers had the General Assembly of the Church of Scot land the power of being heard by petition.—(Herr; hear.) It was read a second time in the Peers, and one or two Ministers were heard on the question. But did the Lords Lake time to reconcile the sta'ements of those gentlemen. No. l'hey committedit, reported it, and• read it a third time that evening. It appeared to him that this act of treachery so the peeple of Scotland was in direct contradiction o the treaty of the Union, and he must certainly say, that any person bringing forward the repeal of the statute, would have the strongest possible ;rounds for bringing forward such a motion. He thought that, in arguing this question, In was bound to deal openly and honestly with the House. He did not say that he, for one, was vet prepared for the total abolition of the Act. He thought that a middle course should b e pursued, and he should be .nxious to see the Act passed b y t h e General Assembly in 1834, become the law of the laud. With respect to the tuchterarder case, he was ready to argue it, and he was sorry the Attorney-General was not in his place, that he might hea r vim out, as he had b een b orne out by Lord Cottenham hat that question as it had been decided by the Civil Courts was not a legal decision. It decided that the Church could ake Mr. Young, but no more, and according to the Act of 1592, cap. 117, which continued to be in force a ,his moment, the effect woeld be that Mr. Yount: would be entitled by the civil law to draw the stipend, but the party appointed by the Presbytery would be the person to ad minister to the cure-of souls. It was a question which they never could consent to refer to any civil tribunal, and it was the reference of the question to civil tribunals hat had forced the General Assembly, in defence of their sacred rights and inviolable privileges, to adopt that course which they had pursued, stimulated merely by a sense of duty, and not by any factious motives ; and, he hoped that whatever might be said out of doors, Htin. Members would approach this pestion with caution, and look at it in its fair bearings, to say when the line of dul led one party or when the line of supposed duty led another party. With regard to the progyes of this question he deeply regretted the determination ex pressed by her Majesty's government, not to legislate on that subject. He did lint think that was e s ilculased to satisfy the people, who had looked for an extensive Measure at their hands. The Duke of Wellington hat said that the mo derate party were defeated ; a s'imilar expression had also fallen, ha thought, fr om the Right Honourable Baronet; but he hoped that Honourable Members would not be led away by any such expressions, but that they would look to the moderate men in the Church of Scotland. They were the men who held the power in the Church, and they knelt what was the proper jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Court, of Scotland. 'I hat lion. Gentleman said that during the recess every attempt had been made by Government to bring thfs matter to a satisfactory conclusion ; and while the Govern ment had held intercourse with various parties on the sub ject, he believed that from the commencement of the inter course both parties were labouring under a mistaken idea. When those terms were explained to the Right Hon. Baronet the negotiations came to an end, it being evident that the parties could not agree. Here he ( Mr. Fox Manic) desired it to be understood, that in contending for the rights of the Non- Intrusion party, he was most anxious that a just regard should be paid to the influence and interests of the patrons. None would more -determinedly than he oppose an undue assump tion of authority. The vacancy at Glasgow, respecting which, the excitement was so great thati he Government had had to order troops into that neighbourhood, showed how the state o: the Church now occupied the public mind in Scotland. If the Government wonted a proof of what such things might lead to,- he would Filer thein to the year 1734, when the Act of Anne first came into operation, and when, in consequence, an enqr mous schism took place; now, if the Government persevered in its present course, a much greater schism would be the re sult, and, at last, the Dissenters from the Church of Scotland would be as the Dissenters from the Established Church in Ire land, more numerous than its members. He would admit that the Government might have settled this question if the parties on both sides could have agreed on the nomination princ;ple— ( Hear, hear)-s--but still, he must observe, that t h e l ate Govern ment acted on the principle of administering th e C rown patron age with strict attention to the wishes of the p ar i s hi oners-1 principle which the present Government did not imitate.. On' this principle of 100 rt h ph , , except the r i l s at e eGot Government acted i n b estowing the one or two, the diffi cu lti es o f which could be easily explained ,-- (near , hear.) Th o Ri g h t Hon. Baronet would have the Hous e t hi nk he had acted i n lik e manner since he came to the Home Department, at le as t, h e sa id he acted on the plan followed b y th e Right Hon. B aronet at the head of the Government while he was in the H o m e - patronage office. Now, the case of Elgn furnished a complete contrast. When a vacancy occurred in 1824, e hen the Right Hon Baronet, the Member for Taroworth was Home Secretary, the Right Hon. Gentleman aced in _ acco rdance with th, wishes of the people, as m i ght b e seen by referri ng to Mr. Peel's correspondence with Colonel Grant on that occasion. Now the Right lion. Baronet, the present Home Secretary, had sent to him the duplicate of a petition which had been sent Lord Normanby , respecting to his predecessor, the presenta tion to Elgin. That petition was staged,_ in the fi rst p i ece, b e three-fourths of the communicants , heads of families; se condly, by all the e ell • rs except one ; thirdly, by the Magis trates and Town Council ; fourthy, by , - lithe majority of borough proprietors : fifthly, by six out of eight of the heritors repre senting 4,66e1. nut of a r, ntal of 6,3391. ; yet the Right Honoerable Barcnet said he followed - in the foot steps of his predecessor.—(uear, hear,) Now h's col - - league could not have made an _ appoint ment g i v i ng more dissatisfaction to the people than that of Mr. Willie. If that gentleman were received harmoniously, as the Right lion. Baronet said, it was because the Dissenters did not wish, by: giving in their protests, to excite a riot. All he r. Fox Mettle) contended for wls , that the feelings of the people of Scotland ought to be respected. Now; to show how those feelings had been disregarded, he would take the case of the late Mr. Tyrrell, the,:Secretary of the Presbytery of Cupar. To the deep regret of all who knew him, that gentle man was suddenly withdrawn from the world on the hat of February; on the Bth, contrary to all usage, the Gover ment presented his successor. This act, so shocking to the feelings of the clergy and the laity, had excited in the public mind the strongest impression against the Right Hon. Baronet ; indeed it was to be feared that that im pression was indelible. The Right Hon. Baronet's rule seemed to be to distribute the patronage of t h e Crown in the Church of Scotland as he alone thought ,preper, and on his responsibility as a Minister—(" Ne, !le,' from Sir James Graham.) Well, then, he .(Mr. Fox Mettle) hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would seen prove the eontrary to the people of Scotland in a practical manner; for, hitherto, not .one of all his presentations, except that of Lochlie, to. • • .se which he would presently advert, had been .made ex cept on the principle of studious indifference and publieepinion. There were only one or two points in the speech of his Hon. and Learned Friend to Which he Wished to allude, His Leaened Friend had referred to the cases of Barnard and the perish of Stsatbbogie. He did not intend to go over al the dispute, but if the whole ease were to be examined, he believed it would . be found that neither the General Assembly nor the Coinmis sion had, in any one instance, broken any decree of the Civil Court, except such as it was impossible they could observe. In.every civil right they had bowed implicitly to the decision of the Civil Court, but they cannot, they would net, and he would add, they dared not bow to the decision of a Civil. Court, if it presumed to interfere in Ecclesiastical matters. Would any one say that if the Court of Session claimed a ri ;ht of jurisdiction over the Court of Excheque r , that it would be for a moment listened to ? Had not a ll the Sus.reme Courts of Justice their own bounds? Th e C ourt of Session bad no more right to intrude itself within the pale of the jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Court, than the Ecclesiastical Court had to in• terfere with the administration of the Civil law He denied that the Ecclesiastical body had - interfered with matters of civil right at all, and he would maintain his opinion on the authority of the best lawyers of Scotland. The gees:ion had never been tried. But he was ready to p •Tit any credit he !+essessod on this asser don, that when it did come to the ultimate Court of Appeal, it would be proved that the Church had a juridic ion within itself with which no Court of law can interfere. He referred to the condition which the terms of the Unien imposed on the Monarch of upholding the integrity of the constitution of the Church of Scotland, and proceeded to state that though it would not be possible to accede to the motion, yet he was glad it had been brought forward, as it had given an opportunity to many Scotch Members to express their opinion on the subject and it also gave him an opportunity of impressing on her Majesty's Government the extent to which this question was going on The difficulties of the question might require to be en countered by a legislative measure, hut in any step that might be taken he w ou ld en t rea t the Government to en • deavour to soothe the feelings of the people of Scotland, and show them at least, if they could not give them all they wanted, they would be supported in the belief that in the appointment of parish ministers no one would be intruded on them without their own consent. Mr. A. COCHRANE, after referring to the importance of the subject, and stating his persuasion that the Church of Scotland could not be shaken without the Church of England being injured, said he should not refer to the discipline of the early church as connected with the first foundation of the Church of Scotland; he considered it immaterial to his argu ment whether the Church founded in lona ' had any iffinity in its discipline to th e Ch urc h of Scot land ; nor should he allude on the one hand to the cruelties practised upon the early Church Reformers, or the treasons alleged against the Knoxes and Melvilles of the Reformation. It was a question • f fact and of law, and as such he should treat it.. The Right Hon. Gentleman on rising, said he should refer to some acts on this question, but lie (Mr. C.) had felt some degree of astonishment, and more !uriosity to see hoe' the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinion could be borne out by those Acts. He had made some extracts 'rom the same Acts, and his opinion was very different. The Act of 1567, which as it never received the sanction of the Queen, but was only signed by the Regent Murray, .ie hardly knew whether it could be carried out as a legitimate Act.—( A laugh ) That Act provided that the examination of the minister was in the power of the Church, reserving the presentation to the ancient patron. Other Acts gave an appeal to the Presbytery, and by the Act of 1590, the presentation was vested in the heritors of the kirk, but it ► absolute veto was riven to the people. He briefly referred to the Act of 1712, sod argued that the Church of Scotland did not proceed on the Authority of Acts of Parliament, but, upon their own books of discipline, which had never received the sanction of the State, and if they considered those books alone, the Church of Scotland had pro'eably some grounds for proceeding as they did. By the Bill proposed by Lord Aberdeen full powers was given to the eeople to make objections to be referred to the Presbytery, with consequent appeal to the Ecclesiastical Court. That Bill, however was refused, and he trusted the Govern .nent was determined to see the present law carried out. The Church of Scotland had in 1640 refused an establishment, but having once admitted it an establishment they had no right now to act in opposition to it. He was gratified to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Government were determined to adopt such measures as should prevent the law being set at defiance. Mr. A. CAMPBELL said that he little thought, the first time he should be called on to address the House, it would be en an occasion when he must utter li's most decided determine. , don to oppose the Government, which he had done so much, in his humble way, to place in the position which they noveoccu pied.—(Opposition cheers.) He trusted the House would bear with a few remarks from him, which he felt himself called on to make, in consequence of the speech of the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Home Department. The Right Honourable Baronet had been compelled to avow his determination to put down the Church of Scotland. The Right Hon. Gentleman had declared, in Most distinct and emphatic terms, that he would enforce the law against the majority of the Church of Scotland. Now he (Mr. A. Campbell) would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that he could not put down the Church of Scot land—that he would be defeated, and that he could not fulfil the threat which he had that day thrown out in that House. The united force of Scotland would be against him, and whenever the united voice of a nation was raised against an act of op preation, it would and must prevail. The other parts of the empire would join, too, with the oppressed in asserting their rights. At that late hour of the night he would not trespass at any length upon the attention (:f the House. With respect to the Acts of Parliament cited by the Right lion. Gentleman (Mr. F. Maule) tespeeting the Church of Scotland, he (Mr. Campbell) thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman would ' have done well, if in so citing these Acts he had also stated that there were many clauses in the Act of security passed at the Union, which showed how well they knew what would happen when they gave up their own Presbyterian Parliament, and committed it into the hands of Episcopalian members. It was then distinctly stated that rho Government of the Church of Scotland should continue in the condition in which it then was. He regretted very much to hear what had fallen from the Hon. Member who had just sat down (Mr. A. Cochrane). When that Honourable Gentleman's father had come to canvass Greenock, he had very clear notions on this mat ter. The Hon.' Gentleman talked of the treasons of Knox and Melville—names which would be illustrious in tile page of history, when the Hon. Gentleman's would have gone to per dition—(A laugh, and cries of " Order")—and in speaking of the veto the Hon. Gentleman had had the audacity—(Cries of " Order, order")—well then the ignorance —(Laughter, and renewed cries of " Order")—to add that it was a veto without appeal. The Members who gave a veto were compelled to de clare that they gave it from no factious motive. Now if that were an absolute veto he knew not what was meant by the word; he trusted that when Scotch members felt themselves called upon by an imperative sense of dusy, to state their opinions on this subject, they would be listened to with patience and at tention. The subject was one of vital importance, not only to the people of Scotland, but actually to the cause of spiritual religion.—(Hear, hear, hear.) As a non-intrusions t, lie he had suffered much in the estimatien of a great many of his friends for his silence. lie had held his peace be cause her thought the Government, which had in many in stances acted wisely, would have pursued a very different course from that which it had pursued with respect to the Church of Scotland. Mr. COCHRA NE skid, as the Hon. Gentleman had thawed him with ignorance, he begged to say one or two words in expla nation. According to a deci4on of the Church there was undoubtedly an appeal to the Presbytery. In 1834 Dr. Chal mers and other ministers changed their views, and said—" No, we will not have an appeal to the Presbytery, but every one who forms part of the majority, shall state that he is actuated by no fact ous views." As the law now stood, there was an absolute veto vested in the majority. Mr. CAMPBELL said that if any member declared himself injured, he might appeal to the Presbytery, from the Presbytery to the Synod of the province, and from that to the Supreme Coot t. Mr. CIJMMIN BRUCE said it had been stated that the Presbytery had changed their opinions on this subject. He could show, that from having been the advocates of State en lowment, they had become the advocates of the voluntary principle, and no connexion whatever with the State. Having fOTTIe knowledge of the circum stances, he felt bound to rise in his place and de. elare, tint it was impossible for any man to di charge the duties which devolved upon him more conscientiously, and with greater anxiety to consult the good of the, people than his R;ght Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home De partment. The clergyman of the parish of Elgin, wearied by the harassing discussions which were taking place, determined to accept of smaller remuneration and leave the town. The moment his determination was known an active canvas was_commenced in favour of a Non-Intrusionist ter. It had been stated by Lord Moncrieff before the Com mittee, that those who were anxious for a change in the law were always more zealous than those who were contented with the law as it stood. There was a great division of feeling in the town of Elgin ; but he could confidently state that by far the greater number of respectable persons in the parish were opposed to the views of the violent Non-intro siouists. But the opposite party having taken the field be fore them had induced a number of persons residing in a separate district, and who never, on ordinary occasions, voted in matters connected with the parish, to originate the petition in favour of the Non-Intrusionist candidate. That petition was signed by 132 persons, whilst 92 signe I and supported the other candidates. What, under these &mum stauces, was the coarse pursued by his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department. That he might not give offence to either party he determined to pass by both the candidates and choose some other person to perform the duties of miniaer. lie had had some cor reipondence with his night Honourable Friend on the subject, and in the course of that correspondence his Highs Honourable Fiiend stated that no political consideration would be allowed by him to aff-ct his decision on such a subject— ( Hear, hear.) That dec!aration was received with the greatest satisfaction in the parish. His Right Hon. Friend sought out a person whom he thought fitted to discharge the duties. Great excitement existed in the parish; if either party had been pre ferred, the other would have been dissatisfied. His Right Hon. Friend, however, appointed a gentleman who, he was happy to say, had been received in the parish with such unanimity, that no attempt had been made to exercise a veto upon him ; there was a general feeling that he was discharging his duties with advantage to the parish, and with advantage to the cause of religion.--( Hear, hear.) Such was the plain statement of the exercise of the Crown patronage by his Right lion. Friend, in the parish of Elgin. He must say that politics had bi en mixed up to a great extent with the conduct of the Non-Intrusionists; as fir as they were cmcerned, it was a mere political question. He was astonished to hear the taunt thrown out against the Government, because they were determined to uphold the law ,of the land.—( Hear, hear.) It was comp l a i ne d t h at t h ey did cot bring forward a new law, to settle the question in Scot land. But what encouragement had the majority of the Scot tish Church given to Government to undertake the settlement of the case? Before they were entitled to call for a new law, they had a right to show their readiness to obey the law as it now stood, or that they would be ready to obey any new en actment which might be passed. They had put forward pre tensions as an ecclesiastical body, such as never had been heard of, or advanced under any reformed Church—pretensions which had only been put forwsrd daring the ecclesiastical tyranny of the tenth century .--( Hear, hear.) They claimed a right t, declare what was the civil, and what was the Ecclesiastical law, and to determine what was the civil interpretation of a civil statute. What did such an assumption of power involve? It involved this—that ,an unfortunate individual inigkt be punished, on the one hand, for a violation of the law as de clared by the supreme civil tribunal ; and that , on the other hand, he might be punished for a violation of the same law, accirding to the interpretation pat upon it by the Ecclesiasti cal Court. That had actually taken plats in the case of the Strathbogie ministers, who, because they had d ec l are d t h e i r determination to obey the civil law, had been punished by the Ecclesiastical Court, and subjected to the most cruel and unjust psrsecution which men had ever undergone.---( Hear, hear.) He believed that a large portion of the Ministers to the Scottish Church were disposed to yield obeli- cues to the law, but that they were afraid to own their real sentiments. But he for on felt no such fear, because, if his seat depended upon the course he might take upon that subject, he would throw his seat to the winds, and openly express the sentiments which he sincerely entertained —( Hear, hear.) Seven most respectable ministers had declared their readiness to obey the lass of the land as it stood unrepealed upon the statute-book; and what had happened? The General As sembly of the Church or Scotland, althotigh a large portion of their body, was not affected 'by the same strange hallucination as the majority, suspended those ministers for the course they had pursued. - Ile had Slated these, factts for the purpose ofiusti fying the - Gentlemen for their conduct on the subject. He did not mean to say that the Act of Queen Anne was in all respects d perfect Act, It might be very desirablethat that Act should be reconsidered; but he thought that before they legislated anew upon the matter, the Church of Scotland, by manifesting its readiness to obey the law, should put them in a pesiiion to do so. The Church of Scotland, even now, was in - ested with great poWer, inasmuch of it had the sale right to empower any parties, in the first instance, to act as Ministers. Ile would cite an instance of the abuses to which their present assump tion of a predominsnce was calculated to give rise. In the pa ri,ll of Daviot, in Invernesshire, which con-istid of a popu'a tion of 1,700 souls, there were but nine communicants who claimed the right to sanction the appointment of a minister ; of these nine - communicants six . refused to receive an urexc,p tionable presentee of the Crown, and out of those six three could not write their names. Yet, in compliance with the veto law of the General Assembly, those six old men were able to keep 1,700 snide without a minister for the last three years. He thought it was unnecessary for him to say a word more upon the subject ; but as allusion had been made to the year 1640 he hoped the House would excuse him for reeding a passage from Mr. Chalmers, who wrote a history of the rebellion in Scotland in the reign of James the Sixth. The Hon. Member then read a very long extract describ;ng the Vac of the Church Of Scotland at that time; that there was a strong feeling in favour of the Presbytcrian Church, which was strengthened by the attempts of Charles to impose Episcopacy upon the Scotch nation, which was one of the causes that brought his neck to the block. After drawing a picture of the state of society at that period, the pas age went on to say that the community were possessed of enthusiasm, and the clergy became masters of the whole power of the State. A few laymen united with the clergy, formed themselves into a Committee, and _exm.cied all the functions of the State, and it was cm icus, continued the Hon. Member, that the historian described the Duke of Argyll sit ting in the midst of them like the divinity of some pagan wor ship, apparently inert and insensible, but the prime mover of all their designs. Such was the extract that came under his eyes, and it was singular that it was a descendant of that Duke of Argyll who had introduced a Bill on the subject in another place. He believed the motives of the present Duke of Ar gyll were those of pure patriotism and benevolence.—( Hear, hrar.) He knew his intentions were to compose the dissen lions of the Church of Scotland, but he believed he was mis taken. He gave him 'credit for the most benevolent intentions and Christian charity.—( Hear, hear.) He thanked the House for the patience with which it had listened to him, and the Bight Hon. Baronet for the manner in which he met the mo tion before them.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. DUFF said he hoped the House wou'd excuse him for rising to repel a charge made on a relative of his, Lord Bute, by the Hon. .Gentleman.—( Hear.) He accused a relation of his, though he well knew the charge to be false.—( Order.) . The SPEAKER 'said that the Hon. Member had used words which he must know were unparliamentary, and which he must retract. Mr. DUFF had no olijec.tion to r,.tract the expression, if out of order.—( hear, hear.) But it was well known to the lion. Member that Lord Bute had taken no share in the transaction to which the lion. Gentleman alluded. Mr. C. BRUCE said he hoped the lion. Member did not mean to attribute to him any intention to make statements which he (Mr Bruce) knew were not true. He made the state ment that his Noble Friend had declined to sign a petition in favour of a person of the name of Stewart. He did not think it derogatory to the Earl of Bute so to act, but that. he hail signed the petition after to favour the views of the party to whom the Noble Lord was attached.—(Cries of " Divide, divide.") Sir A. L. HAY would not detain the House. Hs only rose for the purpose of explaining that, with regard to the statement of the Hon. Member for Elgin, respecting the signing of the petition, it was never signed till after the whole of the late elections were over. After what had fallen from the Bight Hoe. Baronet, he did not intend to divide the House. The motion was then withdrawn. BONDED FLOUR. Mr. HUTT having moved for leave to bring in " A Bill to permit flour, or flour and biscuit, to be substituted for foreign wheat secured in warehouses." Sir R. Pe:EL said that the Hon. Gentleman having asked him a question whether he (Sir 11. Peel) would object to his bringing in a Bill on the subject, he answered that he would not, at the same time he said that he could not be understood to express any opinion on the subject. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Mr. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL thea rose to move, ac cording to notice, f or a S e l ect C omm i ttee to cons i der the Con stitution and principles of the Church of Scotland, vino in quire into the causes Of the collision between the Supreme Courts of that Church and the Supreme Civil Courts, and to report their cbscrvations thereon to the House, with power to send for persons, papers, and records. He begged to say, in proposing this motion, that be might have expressed himself in the previous debate s.mewhat too strongly, but he assured the House that he was led into those expressions only by his warm feeling on the subject, and not by any intention to give offence to any one.--( Hear, hear.) lie was induced to bring forward this motion in consequence of a declaration on the part of the Government, that the law was already sufficient to determine the disputes which had arisen ; whereas it was his opinion, that when two Courts, which were co-ordinate and independent, as were tha Ecclesiastical and Civil Courts of Scotland, came into collision, it was necessary that a higher power s h ou ld i n t erpose an d decide between them. Mr. COWPER said that he considered himself one of those who were referred to by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. -But he lo died for nothing else in the discussions upon this question but its speedy settlement.—(Hear, bear.) And he would do any thing in his power to wrest the Church of Scotland from the danger with which she was threatened. lie could not think that there was any ground for refusing to sift thoroughly the question in dispute. The law which the Church asserted was said by the Civil Courts to be opposed to the statute law of the land. The General Assembly on the other hand contended that the law set up by the Civl Courts was opposed to the fundamental laws of the Church, and to the - Act of Union.—' Hear, hear.) Ihe question of non-intrusion was sufficiently narrow and simple. It was allowed by the Civil Covets that the congrega tion had a right. to reject a minister. But these Courts asserted that reasons must be assigned for the exercise of that right. Bat, he would ask, was it reasonable that that House, which had a right to refuse its confidence to a Minister of the Crown, as he refused his to the Right Honourable Baronet opposite. was bound to give the Crown such reasons as would satisfy the Sovereign judicially, that the reasons were well founded? It was not sought to take from the patron the power of nomi nating, but to apply to it such checks as would require them to consult the wishes and the religious feelings of the congre gations; and what in fact had been the working of the veto? Amidst all the exei'ement that had prevailed, out of two hun dred and thirty appointments t nly seventeen had been vetoed. He thought that it the Government would concede the point Of non-intrusion, which the Church had declared to be one of InT fundamental points of doctrine, that the question might be easily arranged. As to all claim of the Church to entire freedom from all interference of the civil jurisdiction, he thought4hat clai.n unmaintainable ; but he thought the Go • vernment ought to concede the point of non-intrusion. Ile should vote for the Commi tee. Sir J. GRAHAM sad that the Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down had said that lie had confidence in her Majesty's Government. The Hon. Member, on this question at least., must have had as little confidence in the Government of Lord Melbourne. Lord Melbourne said that he was satisfied with the law regulating patronage in Scotland; and being so satisfied, he must refuse anything like a Committee of Inquiry, because the granting of such Committee would be equal to an admission that the law required alteration. Now he (Sir J. Graham) andlis col'eagues came to the same conclusion with Lord Melbourne, that rt was right. to stand by the law of Scot laud, as declared by the Housof Lords Is wastrue that, in matters ecclesiastical in Scotland, the General Assembly was supreme. It was true that in matters civil the Court of Session was su promo, and a difference had arisen as to whether this question was a question relating to matters ecclesiastical or matters civil. A collision had been the consequence, and an appeal to the House of Lords had resulted. Ihe House had given a final judgment, deeiding that the Veto law was at variance with the law of the lanf. Such being an exposition of the state of the case, lie felt he should be acting inconsistently with his duty, and that the Government would be betraying a weakness of purpose, if he should consent to the appointment of a Com mittee of Itsquiry. He would draw the attention of the House to the terms of this motion. The motion was for a Committee to consider the situation and principles of the Church of Scot land. Were people to submit the whole que:tion of the con stitution of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland to a Commit tee of the House, would the Right lion. Gentleman opposite, who was such a stickler for Presbyterian Church Government, consent to submit to a Committe of the House of Commons ? a question so extensive as the constitution of the Church of Scotland—a matter not of fact, but of law and principles ? Those who considered, with the Government, that the pre sent state of the law was fixed and settled would regard the appointment of such a Committee with dismay, as calculated to unsettle the law, whilst those who were of a contrary opi nion would consider.it a triumph. He thought it would be in judicious and dangerous to appoint a Committee, and there fore he must oppose the motion. Mr. FOX MAULE was perfectly able to reconcile the vote he was about to give in favour of the motion, with those Pres. byterian feelings to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had ap pealed. • Ile had come down to the House rather inclined to vote against the motion, but haviiig heard the instructions of her Majesty's Government, and knowing the Committee could only inquire into facts relating to the constitution cf the Church of Scotland he should vote in favour of it. They could not give power to any Committee to alter the eon , tituti , m of the Church in any way. because that was a power which the Legislature itself did not possess. The Hight floncurable Gentleman had alluded to the dfflcrence between the power of the Courts Ecclesiastical and Civil. Ile (Mr. F; Manic) thought it right that the public in England should thoroughly understand what was going on in the North, which they did not understand at present, although the effects of it might soon reach their own firesides. With regard to the Church of Scotland itself, lie felt convinced that it was fixed upon such solid foundation that it. would emerge from all its diflicultit s and be more triumphant than it had ever been, even in its brightest days. The Right Honourable Gentleman had said that in the Auchterarder case the Church had agreed to refer the tfuestion of jurisdiction to the House of Lords, and he said that if`the decision had been the other way, they would not have heard about. it. The Church had referred that question to the House of Lords only for the purpose of determining how far the Court of Law could go with regard to the temporalities of the living, and the moment that was decided to be a matter subject to the cognizance of the Civil Court, the Church had succumbed and had directed the Pres bytery of Auchterarder, not to proceed with the just decolutuin, not to take advantage of what had occurred. So tar as this had gone they had bowed to the decision of the law, and would do so in all others relating to their civil rights. Then, again, a great deal hat been said of the rebellion of the Church and of the persecutions of the s::ven minis ters. Now what had those seven ministers - done? Mr. Edwards had beer, presented by the patron to the living of Stratbogie ; personally, he was unexceptionable but having acted es a political agent in the parish, he certainly. ought not to lie appointed. '1 he appointment was vetoed, and Mr. Edwards appealed to the Court of Session, to order the Presbytery to admit him, which they had no power to do. wh at did those seven gentlemen do? Did they appear in Court? - Did they appear to bow t the authority of the superior Church of Scotland? No such thing. They entered the Civil -Courts, and by their own application obtained a decree against them, in order to that which they held to be necessary to their ordination. They could no more compel a Presby tcrian to ordain any person, any more than a Churchman. These men were ordained, and the Commission of General Assembly proceeded to summon them to the Court ; eighteen months e!apsed ; every opportunity was given them to make an apology, but they did not adopt that course. The Church had been driven from corner to corner by those who ought to protect her. Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down was not deeply impre-sed with the importance of this motion, as the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been directed to another subject. Ile had said nothing whatever in favour of the p r e sen t m otion, and he (Sir R. P ee l) would have felt very mu c h su rp r i s ed if he had, because the lon g period he had been connected with Scotland, and the long period he had been in office, and that office connected. with Scotland, if he had thought the appointment of a Committee would bring about an advantageous settlement of the question, he (Sir Robert Peel) thought he would have acquiesced in the motion. The late Lord Chancellor, Lord' Cottenham, had expressed an opinion in which he (Sir Robert Peel) ect----he must sa y felt strongly disi:osed to concur upon this subj that on the question of whether it was desiralf.e to introduce a nw-asure into Pal hament, fee the purpose of settling that ques tion, there must exist very strong grounds for believing that the proposed measure would be adopted by Parliament, and, if d ad id op a t ge ' ar th t a o t lL ' i vo th u- a h t i . e question.ilgschlat course to the House. The 'pinion, therefore, of Lord Cot tenham was, that it mould be a fruitless proceeding with Par liament. Now, if the Hight Ifonowable Gentleman-bad-felt the same, on this subject, as the Government with which he was connec'eil in le4o, he could net acquiesce in the motion. 'I hey (the late Government) did not adopt any measure of their own, because they thought that in t. c then existing tem per of the people of Scotland, they could nut brires it to a satis factory determination ; it was perfectly open to tam to appoi n t a Select Committee if they pleased, but that being the way in which a shibby Government would transfer its responsibility to a Sete a Committee, they did not appoint suet,' a Committee ; he (Sir Robert Peel) looked upon this question as a most important one ; it was poss.ble for any man to liment more deeply and more sincerely than he did the present condition of the 'Church of Scot laud; he bad always felt deeply interested in the moral, the spiritual, and the Secla • 1 interests of Scotlind ; with a view to settle the unhappy occurrences which had taken place in the Church of Scotland, be a:rove to conduct his relations in such a way that these occurrences should he satisfacto rily determine''. ; the whole of hi • official relations with Scotland were of uninterrupted harmony, and perhaps that was the very reason he now more deeply • lamented the condition in which the Church of that country was in, It was attempted to bring matters to a satisfactory termination, but it was ascertained that • there was not that disposition amongst the public in Scotland which Wd3 likely to teeure a satisfactory adjus'ment, and it wat his (Sir R. Peel's) firm belief, that to attempt to legislate, and to fail, would • only have the affect of increasing Ilia difficulties ; oue of the reasons assigned for appointing a Select Cimmittee to inquire into this question was, that English gen ' tlemen should thereby prime' information upon the subject ; if that was the object, he should say that he would be able to point out much more ample so tress of information than .a lea Committee could affard ; jf there ever was a subject which on each side was so thoroughly exhausted, he vcntvred to say it was that of the Church of Scotland ; arid, therefore, if any Hon. Gentleman wanted infotmation with respect to the diffe rent matters relating to that question, after having read, first, the judgment of all the Judges of the Court of Sessions and the judgment of the House of Lords, and then the pamphlets which were written on the subject, it might be depended upon that the most ample information would be ob.. tamed. When the late tiovernmeet was in office an ex press proposition was made to Lord Melbourne to appoint a Committee to inquire into the question. Lord Mel bourne did not acquiesce in that proposition, stet, ng as his reason for not doing so, that he thought the question was not then fit. for legis'ation. Lord Melbourne then took the course which he (Sir R. Peel) now proposed to take. He believed the appointment of a Committee would only t en d t o postpone the time when any good could be effected. He firmly believed th it if an attempt was now made to legislate upon the subject it would only inflame the feelings of the people, which are already excited, and at the same time they world not ad vance the interes's of the Church of Scotland one step. Under these circumstances, he thought the Hon. Member acted perfectly right in not bringing forward a Bill ; b u t if a Dill could be brought f o r war d, founded on just principles, he thought it ought to bebrought forward—he thought it would be much bet or than appointing a Select Committee. His firm belief was, that, instead of effecting any goad, a Select Com mittee would only tend to widen the diffstrenee at present exist ing. [fear, hear.) If he had come down to the Home, and said he had nothing to propose on the measure, and that h e s h add Move th eie f ore f or a S elect Committee, he slionld have been told at once that such a step would be wholly unworthy of the Minister of she Crown. Nor coul he indeed have pursued such a course ; and now that step had been adopted by another Hon. Member, he could not give his support to it. Mr. A. CAMPBELL eommeneed, in reply, by reading an extract from a letter from Dr. Thomas Chalmers, which stated that his motion was looked to with the greatest interest by.all parties in the Church, and wishing him God speed with it. He would beg to state that the Right Honourable Baronet who answered him did not at all c ndeseend to answer the argoments wh ch he had made use of. Ile (Mr. Campbell) contended that the civil court ought not to be allowed to decide the .imits of its own power, when it had to adjudicate in the case of its own adversary. This the Right Hon. Baronet did not reply to. The Right Hon. Baronet then asked him why he did not bring in a Bill—so he would bring in a Bill, and one that would answer every pur pose, but he knew that it would be immediately cashiered by a party of men who b:indly followed their Conservative leader.—(Opposition cheers.) Gentlemen opposite need not cheer became he knew they would do exactly the same thing. —(R newed cheering.) It was for that reason that he wished to have a quiet d scriminating inquiry into the subject in a Coins mitte-room ; he asked this in justice to the people of Scotland and themselves. He was now quite ready to take the sense of the (louse on the silt ject. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided. '1 he numbers were— For the motion . Against it 62 139 Majo; ity against the motion. THE TRUCK SYSTEM. Mr. FERRAND, on the gallery being cleared, was found speaking in support of the motion, of which he had given notice, for a copy of all the convictions in the counties of York and Lancaster by Magistrates in Petty Sessions assem bled, of persons who have been guilty of illegally paying the wages of their w or kp eo ple goods instead - of the current coin of the realm, since the Ist day of January, .1837, contrary to the provisions of the Act I and 2 Will. 4, e. 37. He made this demand in justice to the working men of the k'ngdom. At the time an Honourable Member opp , site stated that seventy-two persons in Manchester hat de clared that they did not carry on the truck system. He was most shamefully deceived by those persons, Instead of being the principal manefastures of Lancashire, many of them were not manufacturers at all. The very first man on the list carried on the truck system, by paying • his labourers in milk and evin manfaeturers in that place he found were foreigners, and was it right tha they sttould come here and subscribe their money for the purpose ot setting class against clr si,and sul porting a boAy of men who were attempting to overawe the Government. Those men were depriving the British merchant at a fair field of enterprise, and they hal a duty to peform, not - only to the British Government, but to the country they came from. Were British merchants to act in the same way in those countries, they would be immediately made amenable to the law He proteded against the oppression going on in the north of England against the workmen,' in the name of justice ind ermaion decency, and he proposed his motfon from a wi h that the people of this country should be made aware that if the master did attempt. to frighten and intimidate the work trier. from giving evidence before the House it was in the power of the House to inflict condign punishmen', an d whil e he lived, as fir as his position in the House enabled him, he would take cars that the punishment was in flicted. The Hr n. Mt tuber then read a circular, dated Man chester, the feh of March, and signed J. flickens, secretary to an Anti Corn •law Society', requesting the foremen If ova. blishments to obtain the signatures of workmen to a contradic tion of Mr. Lennard's charge. Lie tuked, where that declaration was ? It had not appeared in that House, because the working reaple had at last shown that they were not to be intimii'ated. He also read the letter which inAosed the circular to him, signed by a poor working man, pra'sing Mr. Ferrand for his emeduct in cap %sing the conduct of the masters, and wondering that any men could be found who would n t credit it. Ile was deternined to ferret out the whole of such mons rout tyranny, by whomever practised, and whatever part) ; and he should be prepared after Easter, when he should mire for a Committee, with such evidence as would astonish the House, and make some Hon. Members in the House tremble. The Govermm nt would find, from the evidence, that the country was in an alarming state from the fraudulent practices of the manufacturers, who were plundering and oppressing their workmen to a worse extent than Egyptian bondage. He read two letters from Magistrates in the neigh bourhood of the Hon. Member for Stockport, sta'ing that they had convicted manufacturers for illegally paying their workmen in goads, in penalties to the amount of 214. And he concladed by r accusin,„%the Hon. Member for Stockport himself, notwithstane. ing his - declaration, that he had aopted the truck system, by keeping a number of cows, and paying part of his men's wages in milk Col. SIIITIIORPE vconded tha motion. Mr. SCUOLEFIELD said that he had received a letter denying that any such meeting had taken place in Birming ham as the lion, Member (Mr. Ferrand) had alleged. The motion wa , then agreed to. On the motion of Lord ELIOT, leave was given to bring in a dill to amend the Dublin Police Acts. Dr. BOWRING postponed to Thursday next the motion of which be had gii-en notice for a Report made to the Home Office by a Committee appointed by the Conference, lately held at the Crown and Anchor, on the subject of manufac turing distress. On the motion of the Earl of LINCOLN, leave vls given to bring in a Bill to extend and enlarge the provisions of the Act 4 and 5 Vie. c. 27, intituled " an Act to enable her Ma jesty's Commissioners of Woods to complete the contract for the sale of York House, and to purchase certain lands." The othe Orders of the Day were disposed of, end the House adjourned at a Quarter-past One. C.lsn or MRs. Luc.ts, WIIOSE HUSBAND KILLED Ms CHILDREN AND lIINISELF.—The Lord Mayor and the Lady Mayoress have determined to exert themselves to pr 'cure from the eompa , sionate public tl:e means of making some pi orlion for the unfortunate creature who has been left alone and destitute in the word, by the frightful catastrophe which took place o.t Sunday morning in Aldermanburv. Ills Lordship stated yesterday in the parlour of the Mansion house, that lie was convinced the feeling caused by the event was of such a nature, that it was only necessary for him to al lude to the access Ales of the afflicted widow, to induce the bene volent to come forward to her assistance. He and the Lady Mayoress had made the most searching inquiries into the cha racters of the widow and her la e husband, and they learned fro la every source to which they had applied, that the conduct of both had always been unexceptionable, and that the brain of the poor wretched man must have been affected by the horror he felt at the approach of want and its con comitant miseries and degradation, as regarded his family. The almost distracted widow presented, at the moment his Lordship was speaking. according to the statement of his Lord ship's own medical man, who had been directed to at'end her, one of the most deplorable objects in the world. The Lady Mayoress had been with her to administer whatever the poor Lereature was capable of I eceiving as corsolation in her pitiable condition, and some benevolent iursons had j , .ined in the inte rest felt for her, tnd bad expressed themselves warmly in fa vour of a subscription for her relief. It was, his Lordship re marked, evidrnt, from the hardness of the hands of the un happy sufferer, who was a person of very delicate frame and health, that she had never been idle while her husband was em ployed or seeking for employment ; and it was well known is the neighbourhood in which they resided, that the father and mother went, alternate Sunday*, to church with the three children, who were always remarkable for the neatness of their appearance. Taking the case in all its circumstances, his Lordship considered it to be one which hail pecunar claims upon those who had a " a tear for pity," and he should, therefore, ft el the highest i , ratifica , ion in receiving contributions for the benefit of the helpless survivor. MAt nsn NL A ssizEs.--Edward Smith, a kbottrer, was indicted yesterday for cutting and maiming Lewis Tomp sett. It appeared that the parties had quarrelled in a public house at Ashford, and a fight took place, when the prisoner, who came off second be,t, drew a knife from his pocket, and stabbed the iiroeentor in three different. places. Ihe jury re turned a verdict of guilty, and Baron Gurney said the offence. was becoming so common, that strong measures must beadopted to put it down; he would therefore take time to_consider what sentence should be passed on the convict. Two or three days ago a hair-dresser at.Neubiltljro; ha ing discovered his wife in a situation which left no 4 from the his dishonour, a violent scene took place, at the e.ndofowuhich she left the house, and threw herself into the Seine from and a bridge of Neuilly. She was kept afleat by boat. put off to her rescue. After Ileatin rhushand, thinking r mile she was taken out uninjured; and co.. bath, censented h m er er c e than half a she had bean sufficiently punished by her Id to a reconciliation. On account of the death ASIIII ITRNIIAM HOU. sr. e rand Duke of Mecklenburg—G of his Royal Highness th Imperial Majesty th e Emperor unw's intended party f or thi s d ay of Russia, Barones s Br. ,o ,dnestlay) is unavoidably Postponed. Schwerin, brother ( in-law of his