The Sun. — London, England, 1825-03-30 00:00:00

taieed as they pleased, whether, if these 51. were placed in a Saving Bank, they . would not produce a result, much mole beneficial to the wives and orphans of these persons, that by placing them in the power of these Presidents, Treasurers, .Secretaries, and so on ? What must necessarily be the charac ter of these permanent Presidents and Members of Committees of Management ? Why they must be individuals impelled and crated by a lust of obtaining power; and in a struggle for the attainment of such an object by the laws of human nature, the most violent would place themselves in the most pre-eminent situations. In another article of this confederation, it was stated, that all business should undergo a full and clear dis cession ; and then the minority, whether they agree or not, Wall be equally bound. That, unquestionably, might be a very good rule for debating societies; but he would submit to the House, that it was most consistent with the fair corn petition 'of labour, nor with the power which a master ought so have over his own property ; nor with those relations which the law sanctioned between the employer and the party who was employed. To show that the Honourable Member was not overstating the case, he would take the liberty of stating to the House what was the 22d article— Ice this was a very long constitution. The 2ttd article said, 41, That no operative workman was to engage himself to a master for a given price, or for a Fiven time, without the con sent of the Committee." Now, it these rules were to extend themselves to all the branches of ship-building, mining, navi gation, &c. in this country, it was awful to contemplate the fearful consequences that might ensue; and when he stated it night be productive of such calamitous results, he was sorry to add, that the mischief he alluded to had already occurred in the coasting trade. There existed at present a Seaman's Union, not to be sure with regular laws and regulations in ehese specific shapes, but with doctrines promulgated in a sup positious dialogue between two seamen, and by no means the less attractive in consequence of that disguise in which it was presented to their minds.—( Hear l)—The regulations pointed sr.lt, in this supposed conversation, one rule of conduct, among others, to the seamen, by which they were advised to select and appoint those placed in authority over them. He would ask the House, whetherit could by any possibility be safe to carry on a system of this kind ? And here he would mention, that it was not confined to the coasting trade atone ; for he knew an instance of a very extensive mining work, where the men had been committing extensive acts of violence, not upon a plea of having small wages, nor upon a claim of higher remuneration for their services, but upon the ground that they had a right to select their own overlookers. In the coasting trade they now had a regulation, that every individual in the ship, including the mate and excluding the master, should be a member of the Seaman's Union, and among other regulations there was one, that they should not do certain cus ternary things that might be absolutely necessary during a voyage for the safety of the vessel., He could state a case that recently occurred, where a vessel had been cast upon a sand bank at the mouth of the river, and to get her off it be came necessary to shift a part of the ballast. Now, one of the regulations which was found in this dialogue between Tom and Harry, stated that it was unfit for a seaman to lend himself in moving ballast. In consequence of this the -whole crew were in a state of mutiny; they refused to do that which was necessary to get the vessel off, and it was only by other craft coming to her assistance that she was enabled to get into a state of safety. The crew then did their duty in na vigating the ship ; but they would not do that which was ne cessary to get her off the sand-bank. In fact, the smacks that assisted in getting her off, afterwards made a charge of sal vage; and it was stated in the award, that the danger which existed was owing to the insubordination of the crew. How then could the House conceive any thing more dangerous than a compact of this sort among the crew of a ship going out to sea ?. How was it possible that the captain of a ship could, under these circumstances, take care of property com mitted to his charge, or, in fact, ee sure of saving either his vessel or his life, if insubordination of this kind were suffered to exist?—(Hear, hear!)—The Right Hon. Gentleman was very much surprised at the manner in which this Act was worded, and at the awful construction which was put upon it by those who construed it with no other object but to mislead persons not capable of construing it for themselves. The Act repealed all Statutes on the subject of Combination, and then ' declared, that no proceedings at Common Law of any descrip tion should be instituted against persons who combined with a view to rising their wages, and he would call the attention of the House to the second section of This Act, which. said, " That journeymen, workthen, or other persons, who shall enter into a combination to obtain an increase of wages, or who should combine to regulate. the mode in which any manufacture, trade, or business, should he managed , shoul d no t be sub j ect or liable to any indictment for conspiracy, either by the common or statute law." Now, he submitted, it would appear by this that it was something almost desirable and commendable for workmen to combine in order to controul 40: regulate any particular trade ; and this was the impre ssion under which Hies. Infatuated individuals laboured. They conceived that by an interference of the nature which he had described, they did not violate the spirit or intention of the law, but, on the contrary, that they fulfilled it. If it were only to set them right, therefore, it would be necessary that some Inquiry should take place to shew them what the law was, and what it ought to be. The fifth section went on to provide, that threats or intimidations, or the wilful and malicious driving men from their living, or the destruction of machinery, sholild be punished in a particular way, namely, that the individuals being convicted of such offences before two Magistrates, on the evidence of two witnesses, should be punished with two months' .imprisonment. It did not require any new Act of Parliament to create punishment for these offences. The Right Honourable Member spoke in the presence of the Attorney-General, who would correct him if he was wrong, and lie begged to say, without reference to the law of C ombination at al, that per sons who destroyed property, or who used threats or intimida •tions to others were subject to indictment by the existing law, and therefore this Act was a work of supererogation. Under the Common Law, some of these offences were felony ; all of them were great misdemeanours, and he believed that the only cases in which two witnesses were necessary, were cases of high treason and perjury. Upon these grounds, he submitted teat this law was not adequate to putting down the evil that he had shewn existed to such a formidable extent. The evil wee not the open violence, but the plotting it, and then open and undisguised mode in which an invitation was held out to diet plotting in the manufacturing districts, which was de structive both of the masters and of the employment which they could give. The Right Hon. Member certainly conceived that if these deluded men would for one moment reflect on the consequences of what they were doing, they would desist from such mischievous practices. They must see that they would make it impossible for masters to embark their capital under such risks. They would see that it would be impossible for individuals to commit themselves to a state of tyranny so insufferable as that which the workmen in a situation of con- Lou'. over them. They must see that all employment would cease, and that capitalists would be driven either to other parts of the country, or to other countries, where they could find better protection. Again he would say, that lie recommend ed those who employed workmen , not likely to yield, to meet combination by combination on their part. He was sure, if they acted with firmness and vigour, and resisted such demands. the Magistracy of the country would give them support, and if that was not adequate, his Right Honourable Friend the Secre tary of State for the Home Department would give further as sistance to enforce the laws, to protect property and masters, and to prevent the consequences of this baneful system. To what ex tent it might be necessary to alter this law or whether it was necessary to repeal it altogether, was more than the Right Hon. Gentleman could determine. lie should be sorry to see the laws • formerly in force on , this subject revived. It would be well if seine system more efficient, and summary ' were adopted to pre vent combination from extending itself ; and he thought it a subject well deserving inquiry and investigation. He might be acting contrary to the opinions of those who sent him to that House, but he felt he was doing his duty when he wished to give protection to all employers, and to all those who were em ployed. He had hoped whatever might have been the first ebul lition of workmen after the repeal of the laws with respect to combination, that their own good sense would have taught them a better course than that which they now -pursued ; but the con trary had been the result ; and he now telt it his duty, for the protection of the public interest, to move for a Select Commit tee to inquire into the effect of the Act of the sth Geo. IV. cap. with respect to the conduct of workmen and others, and that uch Committee should report its opinion how far it was neces sary to repeal or amend the said Act. Mr. HUME stated, that no one had watched more closely than he had the operation of this Act, and he was not aware that he was unacquainted with any of the proceedings that had taken place after its enactment. He was satisfied that many parties had availed themselves of what they considered to be benefit afforded by it, and many classes had gone further be yond their own interest, or the interest of the communities, than could possibly be permitted. But it did happen that since the passing of that Act employment had been increasing; workmen had been more in demand, and these causes had tended to the mischief complained of more than the repeal of the former laws with respect to combination. When the Right lion. Gentleman opposite had referred to the Common Law, he (Mr. Hume) would say that the prosecutions which flowed from Common Law were tenfold more oppressive than those which flowed from the Statute .Law. Formerly, if two or three persons were found together with papers, they were liable •to imprisonment, and many had suffered penalty. He would call upon the Right Hon. Gentleman to draw a distinction he . tween two cases. There might be meetings of persons combining orderly and peaceably for proper purposes, and there might be meetings for disorderly purposes. The Com mittee which sat on this subject, on a former occasion, drew distinction, that it . might be lawful for men and masters to meet together to consult upon wages to be given and received in their trades, but if three masters met to settle those wages, or three men met for such a purpose, tkey might be prosecuted. But this difference existed, that out of the many cases of con spiracy against masters, none were proved, from the difficulty of procuring evidence, while the convictions of the men were innumerable. Now, if the Right Hon. Gentleman would draw this distinction, he would spew; in the first instance, what might be said under the Acts of the 38th and 39th Geo. 111. The punishment inflicted for the offence under those Acts was im prisonment for two months. The plain question was, whether this or any other punishment was necessary, and whether they came within the law, unless in cases where the men by acts of violence interfered to deteriorate the property of their master or fellow workmen. His opinion undoubtedly was, that both the parties ought to be free to make what bargains, and to act in what manner they should deem the best for their own interest. He thought the law, as it at present stood, was as strong as it ought or need be, and he should therefore oppose any increase of its severity upon one of the parties, while the other was left at full liberty. He was sorry to say that the Union Societies in Dublin had been productive of the greatest evil ; many persons had actually been murdered ; but then he was happy to observe, that although these Union Societies existed also in England, they were not attended with any such dreadful evils as those which accompanied them in Ireland.— In Dublin, if the curriers were offended with their masters , they applied to the carpenters, and marked out the objects of their censure ; if the carpenters were offended with theirs, they applied to the shoemakers, or any other trade, and then the unhappy individual, who was afterwards assaulted, could not, if he survived, bring any of the offenders to justice, for they were all unknown to him. To repress such a system, he thought no law could be too severe, but then his objection to the combination law generally was, that it punished the whole of the operative class for the offence of a few of its members.—(Hear !)—He admitted that the seamen had acted with extreme impropriety, but he thought that perhaps they might not have been the only persons who had so acted. In some cases he knew the conduct of the masters was worse than that of the men, and he would give a few instances of it. The first act of combination in Glasgow was the act of the masters. A few men of gr. Dunlop's manufactory disagreeing with their master, he believed, upon some point of wages, they de clined to continue working far him. What was the conse quence ? Why the masters immediately combined together, for they called a meeting, at which the subject was discussed, and which came to a resolution to make a stand against the men. This they effected in the following manner. They pub lished a notice, stating that " if the men of Mr. Dunlop's fac tory did not return to their work on or before Monday morning next, they (the masters) would discharge from their e m p lo y all the men, amounting in number to ten thousand, until the men who had quitted Mr. Dunlop returned to him." The workmen who had gone away disclaimed acting in concert with any others, and said, " Do not punish them for what we have done ;" but their disclaimer was not attended to, and all the men in Glasgow of the same trade were actually turned out of their employment. Now he would ask, whether the mere declining on the part of the men. to work for their masters was to be put in comparison for enormity with thatact of the masters ? But that was not all.— The property of the masters enabled them to get the better of the men, who were at least obliged to come in uncondition ally. When they did so, the masters punished their resist ance in a very decided manner, for they actually deducted the loss they had sustained by this cessation of labour from the amount of the men's weges, the men being obliged to pay at the rate of ten per cent. per week, until the masters de clared themselves satisfied. He asked whether the refusal of ' the seamen to sail might not have proceeded from some act performed by their masters ? He knew that combination* were often carried on by both parties, but the stronger of these was the masters. A person employing a great number of men in the tin trade in London, had occasion to find fault with one of his men for drinking, and he finally discharged the man ; he was told by the man, that if he did so all the others would leave him ; but he persevered, and the consequence was that all the men in the factory, amounting to 74 in number, ac tually quitted him on the following morning. Immediately afterwards this man put an advertisement into the papers, in which he stated that he wanted men, but that he would • not engage any who belonged to the Union. His advertisement was answered, and he gradually filled his factory with men not connected with the Society. In this instance, therefore, the master was again triumphant. This case, however, spewed something else, for it clearly proceeded upon the same spirit and principle which had been ascribed to the seamen. It was a regulation entered into by the masters in Scotland, that , any person who quitted one factory, should not be employed in another, and that object was effected by the masters send-. ing round to each other lists of the men who, from any cause whatever, had quitted their employment ; so that no man who happened to differ with his master, could succeed in ob taining employment elsewhere. If that was not a combination among the masters, he really did not know what could deserve the name.—( Hear !)—He was certain that every body would concur in the necessity of punishing any one who had been guilty of an act of violence, but he did hope that nobody would consent to enact laws by which the innocent and the guilty should be indiscriminately punished. He had himself long considered this subject, and at one time he had contemplated proposing that power should be given to Government, in cer tain cases, to punish combination among soldiers and sailors. He would, however, ask whether the laws that once existed for repressing violence in the collieries of Scotland had been pro ductive of any real advantage ? The Scotch had thought, and the Lord Advocate had actually proposed to try, whether the effect would not be more surely obtained by their removal than their continuance. He mentioned that for the purpose of spew ing that conciliation was better than violence. He trusted that whatever the House might do, they would not think of legis lating to repress combination among the men without, at the sarue time, attempting to repress it among the masters. Mr. PEEL said that he was not aware, before to-night, that the Committee which had sat upon the Combination Laws last year, had consisted of so many as 50 Members. That circum stance, however, seemed in some degree to have contradicted the maxim, that in a multitude of counsellors there was wis dom, four their Report, and the measure founded upon it, had failed to convince him that the repeal of 35 Statutes, without substituting some,h:ng for that which had been taken away, was the best course which could have been pursued. He did not mean to defend the old Statutes, which were undoubtedly very l defective, but he thought the law, as it at present stood, wag' not what it ought to be. The question now came fairly before the House, and he was happy that nothing of party or political feeling was mixed up with its discussion. The ten resolutions of the Committee declared, that it was expedient to punish, in a summary manner, the man or the master, who by violence or threats, attempted ' to injure the property, or the rights of the other. The offender was to be taken before a Magistrate, who on the testimony of two credible witnesses, might send him to prison. Now, under this part of the law the criminals generally managed to escape the penalty of their misconduct, for what they did or said was done or spoken only to the master, and not in the presence of any witnesses. Why the presence of two witnesses was rendered necessary, he knew not, but so it was, and the consequence was that the law was evaded. He did not think that the whole of the evil could be fairly ascribed to the masters. He believed the system of delegation at pre sent existing in this country to be an excessive and infamous tyranny. Was it fit that such a system should be longer borne ? Was it fair—was it just—was it in accordance with that free trade, of which so much had lately been said, and which had been justly described as of the highest importance and benefit to this country ?—( Hear !)—He asked, was it for the advantage of that free trade, so justly praised of late, that men should be permitted 'to refuse to sail irea vessel, unless all the crew and the mate of that vessel were members of the Union ? The effects of such a system were most disastrous. The master might have entered into a contract, under a heavy pe nalty, to sail at a certain time—lie might have taken his cargo on board—every thing might be ready—and then, when lie was anxious to sail, he would find himself prevented front doing so, by his crew refusing to proceed- , on the voyage unless the mate was a member of their union. He might have no confi dence in the members of that union, or he might have placed as mate on board his vessel a man in whom he had the highest confidence. That circumstance would be of no avail; he would be reduced to the alternative of either complying with the demands of his crew, on the one hand, or of submitting to the loss of the penalty in his contract, on the other. Was such a system to be any longer endured ?—(Hear !l--He trusted not —but that some remedy would be applied to so gross and glar ing an evil. He knew that a Committee of Delegates was at this moment sitting in the Thames, dictating in the most impe rious manner both to masters of ships and shipwrights. He would mention one instance of this. A short time back four or five individuals presented themselves at the yard of a shipwright employing a great number of men, and commenced emplaying themselves in the works. The foreman or one of the masters told them that they were not wanted. And what was their an swer ? They said that they had heen sent thither by the Com mittee of Delegates, and that employment must be found for them. They were again told that the number of men already employed was quite sufficient for the purposes of the business. and they were desired to retire. The consequence was, that all the men in the service of that shipwright quitted immediately afterwards. The same thing was done in other parts of the country. One object of the combination was manifestly in jurious to the men, who were, however, deluded enough to at tempt to obtain it--that was the indirect establishment of a maximum of wages. If that could be done, the men would be the principal sufferers —for the active, industrious and powerful man ought, undoubtedly, to gain more than the slow, the idle, or the weak workman ; and yet the re verse would be the fact if ;heir. intention . could be carried,, into effect. The old and the young, the strong and the weak, would then receive the same remuneration for their labour, and the men would have succeeded in establishing the worst principle that could be applied to the regulation of wages. He knew of a case where the safety of a vessel had been in danger by a combination existing among the men, in consequence of which they conceived it to be inconsistent with the rules of a certain society to give their assistance in the particular manner required. That assistance was obliged to be procured from other individuals, who were very largely paid for it. Such a system was injurious to property, and it carried into opera tion, might be destructive to life. The evils it occasioned to both parties were extremely great, and for the benefit of the ni-n themselves, he thought the system ought to be re pressed. He called on the House to look with calmness to the present existing circumstances, and without reference to party or to prejudice, to say what was the extent of the evil, and what was the nature of the remedy that o u g ht to be applied. — If they did so, he was confident that the result would be highly beneficial to the country ; indeed he believed that the pro mulgation of the discussion of this night would have the greatest and a most excellent effect on the minds of the de luded men who had entered into these combinations, and that they would find it their interest to abandon such combinations in future. The effects that bad been produced in Dublin were terrible in the extreme. In the course of the three last years no less than ten lives had been lost in consequence of these combinations, and not one of the persons connected with these murders had been brought to justice. He thought, there fore, he was justified in saying that the produced the effect of breaking the bonds of civil society, and of reducing men to that state in which force was the only arbitrator of all the differences. The horrid details of the manner of these murders, had been stated by the Hon. Member for Aberdeen, who had said that the curriers, when offended, applied to the carpenters to avenge them, in consquence of which the sufferers could not know the persons by whom they had been assaulted. He thought such a state of society dreadful in the extreme, and the sooner it was put an end to the better. The men had attempted to regulate the number of apprentices that their masters should receive, and twelve having been the limited number, the master who took thirteen rendered himself planoxiouX, and was thought deserv ing of punishment. They had also attempted to regulate the number of the machines employed by any master, if not to put a stem to the employment of machinery altogether. In the case of Mr. Robinson, a very extensive iron manufac turer, who had constructed a machine by which nails could be made with great . . rapidity, the men had determined to .prevent the use of those nails which he manufactured. The nail-makers therefore assembled a meeting of three thousand men of other trades, who promised, that if their masters would oblige them to use Robinson's nails, they would drive them crooked. This took place in Ireland, and the consequence was, that instead of the nails used there being manufactured in that country, they were obtained from Birmingham ; so that the introduction of English capital into the labour of Ireland, which was so beneficial a measure for that country, and which had taken place in this nail-manufactory, was ren dered totally ineffectual and useless. The fact was, that there existed the strongest necessity for a law to repress combina tions—a law which should equally bind both masters and men— which should be founded in principles of the most perfect equality of {punishment, and which should provide an efficient remedy for this disgraceful system of combination. The men should be prevented from attempting to regulate that of which they knew nothing, while the masters should at the same time be prohibited from combining together, so as to effect the interests of the men. He should therefore support the mo tion, for a Committee to examine into the effect of the re peal of the Combination Laws, and he thought the present a fit time for the purpose, as the question could be considered carefully—the evils, and the best means of checking them adopted. As the Law at present stood, he could only say, that in case of any actual violence committed, he would, as Secre tary of State, give every civil—aye, in cases of necessity, every military assistance that could be afforded to the parties. But he had no doubt, that when he said this to the masters, they would answer him, by declaring, that it was not open vio lence they feared. That the men attacked their interests and in jured their property by combinations, producing a more silent, but not less certain aect. In such cases all that he could say was to advise the masters to enter into counter-combinations, by which they might succeed in defeating the objects of the men ; that they might succeed by such counter-combinations there could be no question, but then - the feeling of amicability and good faith which ought to exist between masters and men would be destroyed, and he therefore gave such advice with the utmost reluctance because he felt that , by establishing these cou nter-combinations the amount of evil was only increased, and yet, however, without them, the masters, under three resent sys tem, could have no protection. lie had lately ived from Ireland proofs, too conclusive to be doubted, of the evils of such a system, and lie did think that there was a party to whom no allusion had yet been made, whose case was. how ever, well deserving the atten tion of the Holm. He alluded to the situation of any man, who, in the midst of these com binations, should resolutely adhere to his master. Such a person would be the object of universal hatred among the men, and he did think that there were more than twenty towns in that country where such a man could not appear with safety after night-fall. Could there be a stronger case , for the intervention of the Legislature than this ? He thought I not, and lie was glad to observe the unanimity which pre vailed in the House respecting the impropriety of combina tions of all kinds. He trusted, that after the evils of such a system had been exposed in the manner they had to-night, the men would listen to argument, and be convinced of the impish. priety of their conduct ; that they would teel how hostile it was to their own interests ; and that they would of their own ac cord abandon it; if not, lie trusted the result of the delibera tions of the Committee would be a lasi equally for the benefit of the-masters anti the men—a law which would prevent that system of combination, than which nothing was more injurious to the true interests of this country. Mr. H. GURNEY defended the conduct of the Committee' upon the Combination Laws, which had come to a unanimous resolution on the important subject entrusted to ns inquiries. He did not attribute the lives lost, mentioned in the statement of the Right Hon. Gentleman, to the repeal of the Combination Laws, and deprecated strongly the re-enactment of the Statutes then abrogated. It had been distinctly established before the Com mittee, !not only that the Combination Laws did not prevent the evils complained of, but that they had not the slightest ten : dency to prevent combination. Sir M. W. RIDLEY admitted that a misconception of the intentions of the Honourable Member for Aberdeen, and of the law he had proposed, had given rise to the scenes of com bination and disturbance referred to by the Right Honour able Gentleman. In more instances than one the Honourable Gentleman (Mr. Hume) had endeavoured to correct this mis apprehension by the operative classes, particularly during the riots in Glasgow, when he wrote a letter, pointing out the im proper conduct of the men, and explaining the provisions of the law. He (Sir MM. Ridley) had been told by some workmen that they were justified in their conduct, because Mr. Hume had repealed the combination laws, and when they were referred to that gentleman's letter, they expressed their surprise at the ex planation there given of the real state of the law. He was pre pared to confirm all that the Right Hon. Gent. had mild respect ing the ship yard in one of the northern ports, but lie begg6d leave to bear teatimony to the excellent conduct of that indus trious class, the inineil and colliers of the north of England— (Hear !)—He was not aware that since the alteration of the law there had been any combination br dispossltion to combination among them. He had received a letter yesterday morning with the satisfactory intelligence that the annual binding or engage ment between the men and their masters had gone off without the slightest complaint dr demand- for increased wages —( Hear, hear !)—Much had been done lately to promote free trade, but free trade and free labour must go hand in hand, and lie hoped that the inquiries of the Committee about to be appointed would promote this beneficial result. Mr. TRANT expressed his conviction that the repeal of the Act was imperiously necessary in Ireland. Mr. C. GRANT said that as a Member of the Committee of last year, he was extremely anxious to Thew the persons whose infamous conduct had been stated to the House, that however well disposed he bad been to forward a measure for their pro tection,he was no less determined in his desire to punish abuses such as those which they were committing. Their conduct, gross as it w. s, was doing far greater injury to their own interests than to those of any other parties. it excited feelings of such a nature as almost to induce a wish to restore the old Combination Laws. Notwithstanding that he was glad of the opporninity of declar ing his sentiments, he almost regretted that so much had been said upon the subject ; for he could not help thinking that an impression would go abroad—not with the intention or wish of his Right Hon. Friend, he knew—but he feared that some things which had fallen during the discussion might be taken as an imputation upon the conduct of the Committee. He was one of the fifty Members who attended that Committee, and most cordially concurred in every thing which proceeded from it. It was . unfair to attribute the present state of things to the Hon. Member's Act, for the same combinations existed before it was passed, and most 'of the murders spoken of had been perpetrated previous to that time. A complete system of terror had then been established, of which the y had proofs in the trembling and alarmed manner with which many wit nesses gave their evidence before the Committee. The. Right Hon. Gentleman warmly defended the resolutions so much of of the Coin mittee, a and contended that the Act only rep e the Common Law as rendered peace able meeting two or three individuals penal, under the 23d of Edward the First. aled He found no fault with his Right Hon. Friend for bringing forward the subject, but, on the contrary, should have consi dered it a dereliction of duty on his part if had not done so. And-Nish , des ir e tq Ular Howse and. the country hi s k to OP abhorrence of that atrocious abuse of the lenity exercised to wards these persons, he could not silently support the motion. Mr. KENNEDY said a few words in approbation of the measure. Mr. LAMBTON said the thanks of the country were due the Right Hon. Gentleman for calling the attention of Parlia ment to a subject so alarming. Mr. HUSKISSON explained, that he had made no ob jection to the Resolutions of the Committee. The Act itself, it was quite clear, had created a misconception, followed by prejudicial effects in some parts of the country. The Honourable Member for Aberdeen had. called upon him not to visit with severity the offences of the few upon the unoffending conduct of the many. It was not his intention to propose any thing severe or penal towards any parties. He only asked the House to consider how far the interests of com merce and the general peace and welfare required the adjust ment of this question, with a due protection to the rights both of the master and the labourer. • The question was then put and carried, and the Committee appointed. NEW STREETS. Mr. BERRIES moved for leave to bring in a Bill to ex tend the jurisdiction of the Commissioners for paving and re gulating the Regent's Park, and the new street from thence to Pall-mall. Mr. HOBHOUSE impressed upon the House the fitness of due inquiry before any fresh improvements were undertaken.— Leave was then given. CROWN LANDS AND PROPERTY. Mr. HERRIES obtained leave to bring in a Bill for divid ing, allotting, and inclosing the Forest of Salcey, in the Coun ties of Northampton and Buckingham. Also to bring in a Bill to extend the provisions of the 59 Geo. 111. relating to the dis position of certain real and personal property of his Majesty. DISSENTERS' MARRIAGE BILL. Mr. W. SMITH moved the order, of the day for the Com mittee on the Dissenters' Marriage Bill. Mr. PEEL asked what the Hon. Gent. then proposed to do? Mr. W. SMITH answered, it was only his wish to fill up the blanks at present, that the measure might be intelligible, and that the further discussion should be postponed until after the holidays. Mr. PEEL wished the Bill to be then recommitted. Mr. W. SMITH said, that he should .have no objection to that course. Mr. ROBERTSON, after a few observations, moved that the Bill be committed this day six months. The gallery was partially cleared, but the motion was negatived without a divi sion. The House went into a Committee, and the Bill was read a first and second time, and the Report brought up, and ordered to be further considered on Monday, the Itith of April next. The Irish Bankers' Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed to-morrow. The House then went into a Committee of the whole House upon the Police Magistrate Bill. The Threatening Letter Bill then passed through a Com mittee, and was ordered to be read a third time to-morrow. The Felonies Pardon Bill was then read a second time, and went through the Committee.—Ordered to be !nought up to morrow. Mr. BROGDEN brought up the Report of the Committee of Supply, which was read. The Game Laws' Bill was then carried through a Com mittee. After other clauses were prop:•sed and agreed to, the Bill was ordered to be engrossed, and to be read for the third time on Monday the 25th of April. The Scotch Judicature Bill was read a second time. The Small Debts Bill was committed, and ordered to be read for the third time on the 18th April. The Debts Recovery Bill for Scotland was also committed, and ordered to be read for the third time on the same day. The Prison Laws (Ireland) Bill was read a second time, and committed for the 21st April. Mr. R. MARTIN gave notice of a Bill that he intended to bring in on the 15th April, to enable persons charged with felony to defend themselves by C3unsel. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Eleven o'Clock. ON THE AMERICAN MINING COMPANIES. (From the Journal dcs Debuts of Sunday.) Au event is preparing in the New World, which will change for good or evil the financial situation of Eu_ rope. Since 1810 the importation of precious metals drawn from the mines of America has considerably diminished, and is of late become quite insigniEcant. The mines of Mexico ruined by the insurgents of hidalgo, and of late feebly set to work, instead of sending to Europe twenty-two millions of piastres, their old tribute, have only sent us between nine and ten millions ; and as the working- of mines is always ex pensive, and the culture of cocoa, indigo, and sugar, more lu crative and easy, the natural tendency of free civilization has caused the mines to be abandoned. Perhaps it is the true po licy of the Mexican Government to limit it, that the relative value of the metals may be kept up. The mines of Peru have not, like those of Mexico, been ma terially injured ; they were not flooded, broken down, nor choked up, but they have been abandoned by the workmen, who have enlisted in the Royalist army, or hidden themselves in the forests of the interior, whilst the capitalists have fled from a country so distracted by war. The mines of Colombia and Chile, like those of Brazil, are mere river-washings ; the gold is found in grains which the stream washes down with the sand. Mineralogists have almost given up the idea of discovering any vein of gold; the more easy and more prompt method will therfore be resumed in Co lombia and Chile whenever the inhabitants wish ; but the en lightened Colombians prefer extending their industry to the culture of those productions favourable to the climate, and to wards those manufactures which the country is in want of. Chile is more attached to its mines of copper, whose produce is called for by all commercial nations. Copper and iron are the metals of civilization and liberty; gold and silver may minister to despotism, corruption, and gambling. The gold-washing in Brazil, thanks to slavery, still continues but it is only England who reaps the profit. Generally speaking, nothing can excite the free people of the New World to leave their glowing sun and charming shades in order to find us crowns and guineas. But a foreign impulse, the spirit of speculation in the English, is about to draw from the Cor derillas the inexhaustible metallic treasures shut up in its bosom. England wishes to sell America as many goods as possible; she does not like to receive in exchange colonial commodities which rival her own ; she therefore wishes the metallic productions to be augmented, that they may serve as a medium of exchange, which is advantageous enough for those who receive it ; above all, when owing to akind of monopoly they can fix the rate of exchange. Such is now the position of English commerce with regard to those new States, which the confined policy of our Ministry and the blindness of Spain have thrown into the arms of a nation they dislike, and which in every other respect than that of the exchange of ingots has not one Intere s t in coin. in ,;:.l with them. Many companies of capitalists iit.79 been formed M liondon to buy the property of the Mexican, v„v rkn P e ruvian,g of andthem ewo with h l e a n nin order to recommence the means Bred by European acience,and which alone, by diminishing the enormous expences, may ren der the enterprise productive. Two things are absolutely neces sary—first, steam-engines instead of human labour, which at present is extremely dear, and almost impossible to procure in the midst of a free and lazy population ; the subterranean waters which have inundated the mines must be drained, more simple and more perfect modes of extraction must be established, new galleries must be opened, and the old ones must be propped up : secondly, mineralogists equally acquainted with mechanics and chemistry must be procured ; they must above all be able to apply to the unrefined mineral the new methods of fusion and amalgamation. THE ARMY. 'From Last Night's Gazette.l Commisions signed by the Lord Lieutenant. Sikh or Royal Regiment of Ayrshire Militia—David Ken nedy, Esq. to be Captain, vice Boyes, appointed to the Line. James Hood, Esq. to be ditto, vice MoncriefF, deceased. Holmepierrepoint Troop of Yeomanry Cavalry—the Right Hon. Charles Evelyn Pierrepoint, commonly called Lord Vis count Newark, to be Captain Commandant. South Hants Regiment of Yeomanry Cavalry—Cornet Harry St. John Neale to be Lieutenant, vice Westcott, resigned. THE INDIAN ARMY. Head-quarters, Calcutta, Sept. 30, 1824. GENERAL ORDER. Hi(' Excellency the Commander-in-Chief takes the earliest opportunity of drawing t o t h e not i ce o f t h e R eg iments compos ing his Majesty's Army in India, a General Order, dated at the Horse Guards, Bth of October 1824, to which regulations are annexed concerning the appointment of persons to Com missions in the Army, the prices of Commissions, the purchase and sale of Regim en t a l C omm i ss i ons , & c . &c. ; and his Ex cellency will hold all Off icers comman ding Regiments, and other Officers who may be concerned, strictly responsible that the instructions therein laid down shall be attended to in the minutest manner. _ By order of his Excellency the C o mmander.in-Chief, THOS. 211. 6 111AliON! Col. A. q. SPANISH BONDS. On Saturday a Petition was presented by French Lady to the Chamber of Deputies, praying the inter vention of the Chamber to obtain for her the interest due on her Spanish Bonds. M. MECIIIN, an opposition Member , supported this petition in a speech distinguished for conclusive reasoning and vigorous expression, which he pronounced amid deafening interruption and violent marks of displeasure from ' the Ultra side of the assembly. The legitimate character of FERDINAND, though replaced on his absolute throne by a brother Prince, and supported on it by French bayonets, did not protect him from the charge of bankruptcy. The enun ciation of this word was followed by ap explosion of rage from the right side, which only induced the orator to repeat il• " Yes," said he, "itis a bankruptcy—for not to pay one's " debts is to become bankrupt—and thus Spain is a bankrupt " towards the French creditor." " But," cried the Ultrae , , " those are the debts of the Cartes, and not of the King. " No," replied the orator, " they are the debts of the Spanish " Monarchy • for on the schedule the French creditor saw the " august and official authority of I, the King, and was bound " therefore to think that he was lending his money to 3 " Bounnow—to a relation of the King of FRANCE."- -- " But," cried the interrupters, " the Kin ,, was a captive "—he was a prisoner." " No," answered 111.'111Ecuirr, " was a constitutional King—he was acknowledged as such by " the Sovereigns of Europe, and even the King of FnArtc V " congratulated him in a solemn letter on the modifications " which he had introduced into his Government. Could a " Frenchman call in question the propriety of a recognition " made by his Sovereign ? If FERDINAND then acted on "compulsion, give us a rule by which we shall henceforward " be able to distinguish what proceeds from the free will, and " what springs from the dissimulation of Kings. Could the " obscure lender of his little treasure detect the illegitimacy of " the acts of the Spanish Sovereign through the crowd of Am' " bassadors which recognized his, constitutional throne ? When " all the world acknowledged the new Government, was the' " humble capitalist to be so nice and punctilious as to demand " from the descendant of Plump V. new proofs of his legiti " maey ? Was it not enough for him that here, beneath the " very eye of his Sovereign, and by the command of the French " Minister of Finance, the Spanish loan was quoted and sold "on our Stock Exchange ? Were, then, the pomp of Royalty " —the congratulations of the Potentates of Europe—the " homage of Ambassadors—the protection of the French " nistry—were all these things only a deceitful—a vain phan. tasmagoria, behind which these small capitalists ought to " have seen the snare laid for their good faith ?" No answer could be given to reasoning like this : it was therefore put dow.a by clamour. The petition was of course rejected. PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDINGS• HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mortis, 29° die Martii, 1825. MESSAGE from the LORDS—That ,they have agreed tn - "" Stourbridge and Margate Improvement Bills, without a mend' ment. ROADS—Haleworthy, and Flimwell Vent and Rye—Bills read a third time, and passed. Mary-le-bone and Finchley—P e " tition of Sir T. M. Wilson, Bart. against—referred to Committee on the Bill, Counsel ordered. Tewkesbury and Cheltenham—Second reading put off for six months. 130 1 '; ley and Grange Moor—Petition of the Duke of Leeds, ag ains ' —referred to the Committee on the Bill, Counsel ordered; Sheffield and Glossop—Petitions from Full Wood, &c. 201,1` Sheffield, against—referred to the Committee on the Counsel ordered. Holyhead—Bill ordered. COMPANIES—NationaI Fishing—Petition for leave to prele,, nt a Petition for a Bill, referred to a Committee. London W ter—Report from Committee on Waterworks—referred to the Committee on the Bill. %Vest India, and Shams Water--' Bills read a second time, and committed. Tropical Frio Labour—Petition for Bill referred to a Committee. W esta" Ship Canal—Report on Petition for additional provision re; ferred to the Select Committee on Standing Orders. Jot ti „ Stock Bank (Ireland)—Petition from Kerry, in favo ur -3 " lieon the table. Provincial Banks (lreland)--Petitions fr 00) Kerry and Galway, in favour—t6 lie orf'the table. Doc x s—Kingston-upon-Hull—Petitions from R. Harrisol l : J. Holdsworth, and R. Richmond, against—referred to iIP" Committee on the Bill, Counsel ordered—Bill read a oe cond time, and committed. . • ' RAILWAY s—Stratford and Moreton, • and Duffryn TrTnEs—Cockerham RESERvoin—Leith BANKERS (Ireland) POLICY,' MAGISTRATES FELONIES PAnpou • JUDICATURE (Scotland) PRISON LAws (Ireland) COLONIAL lERCOU 1 • • G A s LIGHTS— NT GIasgo w RSE s 1 Bills read a third tw- , COUNTY TREASURERS (Ireland) f and passed.' I asPnovEmENTs—Rochdale—Report on Petition for au. tional provision referred to the Select Committee on Stan dig Orders. . Poou— St. Bride's 1 Reports on Petitions for Bills d r eferre GAOL—Cambridge J the Select ComMittee on Standin g , to BRlDGE—Chester—Two Petitions from Chester, agains t— • lie on the table ; Bill read a second time, and con:initte d., ROMAN CATHOLIC CLAlMS—Petitions against, from 1 31 1, tol, Bedminster, Wells, and A lrchdeaconry of Taunton , to lie on the table. ,A• C OU NTY COURTS BlLL—Petition from Brixham, in favor, to lie on the table. CORN LAWS—Petition from Merchants of London, for ao teration—to lie on the table. F .0 1 o n. w E i l n G g ir y G o rite ign N G — r P a i e n t i t t i o o n b o e f ly: e r a c h ro a r n ths home e r4 c o o n n d s o l n n , p f t l r o to lie on the table. SEAMEN'S noT I da l is oESyTAßpilril 14, an lread afi d rs t t o ti h m e r e, rtoinbteed.read a SeC °l time NEW STREET SALCET FOREST • -} Bills ordered. His MAJESTY'S PROPERTY DISSENTERS MARRIAGES GAME LAWS Bills, as amended, LD SDIALL DEBTS (Scotland) printed. DEBTS RECOVERY (Scotland) Bilis read a s ecs, a time, and commit NOTICES OF 'MOTIONS FOR THIS DAY , A 1. Mr. Alderman Heygate — Bill to repe al the p enaltiegh o forfeitures incurred under the Usury Laws , an d to so" tote others in lieu thereof. 2. Mr. Hume—Papers respecting the past and presen t stt'l and expence or the Settlement of Sierra Leone. _tic 3. Mr. Kennedy—Return connected with Parochial E duc' in Scotland. 4. Mr. Peter Moore—Bill to alter and amend Act 6 663. c. 18 [ Bubble Act.l a ire 5. Sir Charles Forbes—Return of his Majesty's Ships and 4l sels on the East India Station, with their number of to and men, and the names and rank of the officers manding the same. 6. Mr. Herries—Bill to amend the Acts relating to Dtil li° Hbour. 11r, ar Thomas Courtetisy—To refer Poor Return s f . tLee " and to move Poor S eto year to a Select committee 25th March 1025. THIS DAY , ORDERS OF THE DAY FOR r• . 1. Supply—Committee. 2. Quarantine Laws Bill—Second reading. 3. Ways and Means—Committee 4. Bankrupt Laws Amendment Bill—Committee. 5. East India Judges Bill—Second reading. 6. Bankers (Ireland) Bill—Committee. 7. Police Magistrates Bill—Committee. 8. Threatening Letters Punishment Bill—Third reading' 9. Felonies Pardon Bill—Committee. 10. Sheriff Courts Fees Bill—Third reading. ii. Arrests for Debt Bill—Committee. 12. Fishery Bounties Act—Report thereupon. 13. Cocoa Duties Act—Committee thereupon. NOTICES GIVEN YESTERDAY. Thursday, March 31. t Mr. Secretary Canning—To move the adjournment o f House to Thursday, 14th April. I Thursday, Aprill4. Mr. Littleton—Bill to regulate the exercise of the E l-it Franchise in Ireland. Friday, Apr 15. at Mr. Martin (of Galway)—Bili to il a llow pesons pros e,- ,yd for Felony to defend by Counsel, as incases of JP" meanor. Thursday, Mr. John Peter Grant—Bill to April alter 2l. ar amend the of Scotland regarding wrongous im som t p , delay of trials. Tuesday, April 26. 1. Mr. Brownlow—Resolution to enablf the Crown to g ° provision for the Roman Catholic C:'gy of Ireland. , e 2. Mr. Monck—Bill to prohibit, in certo cases, the p a Y"'t of any part or portion of the wag of Labourers OLI ' the Poor Rates. Thursd, Mr. Woolryche Whitmore ay —Bill t o nend the Corn I s. PRIVATE BIL'. Second Readings ./br 1 3 Day. •eli Northall, and Wilton Inclosures ; asgow, Tothill Ic and Hanley and Shelton lmproveme ; Clyde .Nav i O " and Grimsby Haven.