The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-03 00:00:00

they ing .forward the present Bill—(H ear , h ear ) leee celled upon Members not to be influenced by party ssonsiclerations, but to legislate solely with a view to `the good of the country at a moment when the minds inf all were agitated by the events occurring around us. But, speaking generally of the Bill, what did it pro pose to do ? To disfranchise an immense number of boroughs. The borough which he represented was sur rounded by walls ; the walls indeed had crumbled away --(Loud laughter)—but within these walls, and there 'wily, the electors were entitled to vote- The extent of 'these walls proved very clearly, that a much greater number .nf voters existed there formerly than possessed the elec tive franchise in that borough at present. 'Now he could see no reason why the right which had been so long enjoyed by those inlividuals should be interfered with. The proposition of the Noble Lord would here the effect of consigning to civil death a great number of those who now had seats in that House; and he did not think that the Noble Lord would easily find 16S Members in that House, or any where else, who would be willing, however plausible the arguments which might be essged, to vote their own damnation.—(Laughters)—When a Govern ment,—and certainly a very clever Government,—bretrsht forward this measure, the House had a right to expect that the same principle would have been trilled both to England and Scotland—that a uniform principle would have been extended both to county Members and borough Members. But no such thing was done : and he should be glad to know ou what principle it was that the Noble Lord allowed to Members to Tavistock—(Cheers from the Opposition) —and also two Members to Knaresborough.—(Continued cheers ) while other places of as much importance were to be de prived of one of their Members ?—(ifear, hear.)—Mini sters said, indeed, " We admit that we have tekseated a departure from principle, and why should you look any I farther ;" but, in his opinion, neither the House nor the country ought to be satisfied with VA an answer. This was the choice plan of a Gibioet, each member of which appeared to be pledged to the support of some particular topic. The whole Cabinet had their own especial hobbies, but they did not ,Teem to know how to ride them skilfully. —(Hear.)—There was the budget, which was the lielehy ' of the Chancellor of the Exchequer.—(A laugh.)—That hobby, he ',relieved, was lent to the Noble Lord by a friend, and not knowing how to manage him, he had received a fall.—(A laugh.)—Two days after he had brought in his budget, he laid it at the feet of the House, and got the Vice-President of the Board of Trade to pronouce its funeral oration.—(Laughter. )---Then there were the sugar duties, which afforded another proof of that sweet har mony and unanimity which prevailed amongst Ministers. When that subject was introduced, they seemed unwilling to keep their places, for he saw them making excuses, and hurrying off to dinner as fast as they could. With respect to the change meditated with reference to Scot land, he wished to say a few wards, because he felt a strong interest in the welfare of that country. The wish of Ministers seemed to be, to establish a popular repre sentation. Now, when the Scotch representation was adapted to that of England, it never was intended to be a popular representation.—(llear and laughter. )—lt was intended to be a reprentation of the land, and the owners of the land.—(Hear.)—The petitions from Scotland prayed for the right of returning Members to Parliament for each county. But what had the Noble Lord done ? Why, he had jumbled counts into county, and this he called complying with the prayer of the petitioners. He could assure the Noble Lord that the people of Scotland would be much better pleased if left alone with their an tient rights and privileges.—( Hear.)—They would be far more content with their old institutions than with new ones founded on untried theory.—(llear.)—He thought, however, that it would be right to allow the proposed Bill to go forth into the country.—(Hear, hear.)—He called on the House to let the Bill go forth to the country, that it might be considered in all its hearings. He wished i t to be accompanied with the debates on the question ; so that those who were concerned might he aware of the arguments used on both sides of the House.—(Hear.)— He was anxious that an impartial feeling should prevail on this occasion ; for he was not one of those who would run blindfold into any measure, neither would he reject any proposition without true inquiry. Year after year the Noble Lord had brought forward this question, and, look ing at what the Noble Lord now proposed, Reform ap peared to him to be revolution—concession, spoliation— and ir. time, religion would be atheism.—(Hear.) Sir JOHN WALSH would be happy if the Noble Lord would receive his tribute of praise for the manner in which he had brought forward his measure. The manner in which he had stated his measure was such as to put the House clearly in possession of all its details, and at once to submit its principle in its fullest scope to their observation. The measure, however, appeared to him not so much a Reform of the existing Parliament, as an entirely new for mation of the Government of the country,—(Heat, hear.) He was aware of the talent possessed by the present Ali nietry ; and it would not be impeaching their talents, when he said that not even they would be able to estimate all the consequences that would follow upon the carrying of this meseure--they could not estimate what would be the change to the whole Government and state of the country in a very brief period.—( Hear, hear.) The first objec tion which struck him as to the measure was, that it con tained an abortive attempt to set up two principles, both of which appeared to him to be erroneous. The first was that of reverting to the early period of our history—to a period when he could not think that in fact this country enjoyed any of those blessings which in the course of time its industry and independence had obtained. When the Noble Lord referred to the reign of Edward 1.. and in the year 1831 wished to copy the rules adopted by an arbitrary Monarch in a remote age, he could not conceive that those rules could be so modified as to suit the country as it at present existed. It was well known that in those periods the Commons were thought so little of an estate as the interpreters of a will or the in terests of the nation, that in t e first instance it was sup posed that that Ilouse was separate from the other, because the Peers disdained to hold communication with a body of men so inferior in station. The other principle which he thought erroneous was that of rendering the representation co-extensive with property ; for property in itself was so vague a term, that, after all, they must resort to the ques tion nf expediency ; and the only question was, whether the lot. voters that were proposed, were as expedient as the present qualification. The Noble Lord had referred to three grievances which tire people found with the present system of representation. But he (Sir J. Walsh) was surprised, that as the Noble Lord had paid so much at tention to the wants of the middle orders, he had not per ceived that all their petitions had stated another grievance, via. that they had associated retrenchment with Reform. These two appeared to be, like the Siamese Twine—(A laugh)—not exactly the same, yet so closely united, that in the minds of the public it WAR difficult to disunite them. He could understand, that in the present situation of the Gevernment they had not resorted so much to that argu ment as they might have done, for they probably felt, as Ministers, that the retrenchment which was sup posed to be so practicable, would, if pushed to too great a length be subversive of the interests of the country ; and as the Noble Lord the Chancellor of the Exchequer had stated in his place, that after the fullest investigation they could not reduce taxation, but only patronage, he (Sir J. Walsh) could conceive that the Government must have felt great difficulty in this part of the question when they found the people praying for these two things united. If the retrenchment demanded was unatlvisable, in his opinion the Reform was so likewise; for either retrench ment should he co-existent with Reform, or, getting Re form, that retrenchment would follow which would sacri fice the best interests of the country.--(Hear, hear. )-- When the Noble Lord brought forward this motion, he statedhewas desirous of bringing forward a motion so core. plete that it should satisfy the wants of the people. Now he (Sir J. Walsh) could not help thinking, that any Re form which did not produce the concomitant of retrench ment would not satisfy those expectations. which the people had—or rather what they had been taught to in dulge. For himself, he should have pursued a different mode of satisfying the people. He should have thought that he could best have satisfied the people, by satisfying, in the first place, their ovenselves of the reason and justice of the case.—(hear. )—He could not help thi n ki ng , th at by givi ng way to t h e fluctuations of popular opinion, they were following something which they could never be able to ov ertake.—(Loud cries of " hear, hear.")—He thought th at there was in this country a g , reat fund of ;sod sterling " 1 "e--a great•fund of good feeling and in dulgence towards thoeeeTeNZhro conscientiously ferforme, their duties ; and he tie li couldnot think that the people would he dissatisfied ecientiously gave his vote on this l Member who eon i7aecancaysion according to the dictates of his own feelings.— )—Such was his opinion of the people, and the lee r s ' t h eae.d " b e of satisfying the people. Numbers had been talked :ficnnirnuraittteietifrottli:atbwodalys, to be the question, there was another most nu who, though unrepresented, had been charge ; a body who had no voice but the st ill small voicethir within Members' own breasts : he meant th e descendants of the people for whom they were bound to have the most: careful consideration. This argument was, of course, re ferable to those Hon. Gentlemen only who suffered them selves to he swayed by what they conceived to be the opi nions out of doors; while to those who really thought that Reform was necessary, these observations would not apply. Let them take the in:ow:lee of a Jury is ho was sitting on the life of a man, with the supposition that there was a popular clamour without for his acquittal or condemnation, In such a case he contended that the Jury would not be justified in listening to that popular clamour.—(Heir, hear.)—lle valued human life as much as any one could do ; but, at the same time, he Could not put the life of one man in competition with the fate and destiny of a Whtle t ountry ; and he therefore said that they'were hound to decide on the individual merits of this case, without listening to any clamour which was supposed to exist. As he felt nliged thus far to make an attack upon the intasure of the Government, he would take the liberty of defending them on one point. The Noble Lord (Stormont) had accused the Alieistvy of holding out an intimidation of the dizsthe!..on of Parlia ment ; and he certainly had liet.rd The itight lion. Baronet make use of that os!et'.'afion ; but he did not think that it had beer. slated as' a threat; for it appeared . fo that if the Ministers carried this measiY!..2., they would be bound to dissolve the Parliamet in a very short time ; so that, after all, this eat Only a sort of plus and minas; and eit6er it tea: 'tot intended as an intimidation, or, at all even".L. it was a mistaken intimidation ; fur Hon. Gentle men must feel, that this sword of DamokYs was stispentled over their heads in both eases, Mr. MACAULEY had hot eipeeted that the Noble Lord's motion would ht'e given such general satisfaction as it appeared to have done. For himself, he could oily say, that as far as he had been able to consis'ear the propo sition of the Noble Lord during the last twenty-four hours, he had no hesitatioti in saying that it was a wise, noble, and effective measure, skilfully arranged for the purpose fen which it was intended, and calculated to unite and link together all orders in the country. The Hon. Member who had last spoken had said th a t it contained two incongruous principles. On the contrary, it appeared to him to contain but one principle, and that principle was this—that it was desirable to give a share in the repre sentation to the middle chases of the British people ; and that it was desirable to do this by a change as little violent as possible to the present institutions of the ecuntry.— (Crien of "no, no, and hear, hear.") It had also been said that the act ought to have been symmetrical in its form of representation ; but, in his opinion, it was wise not to make it symmetrical—it Was wise in keeping the counties and the towns distinct—it was wise, because a measure had been taken which would give due weight to the middle classes of the people, without producing any convulsive change. He did net pretend to say that the same institutions would suit every country. He be lieved that some rations were so happy that the best form of Government for them wag universal suffrage.—(A laugh.) Such was his opinion ; fur he conceived that if all the labouring classes of England were fully employed, and their wages high, with reason for believing that their feelings would extend to all classes of the community, and be lasting in their effect, then the whole body might be en trusted with the elective franchise, for it was known that the American people used that advantage well, and he did not believe that eit'er in their head or their heart they were superior to the English people.—(Hear, hear.) — But, as the case now stood with this country, the body of the labouring classes was reduced to a state of considerable distress; and they all knew what effect distress had on the minds of people even better educated and of sounder judg ments than the labouring classes. Distress made men credulous and irritable, and it was, therefore, on that ground, principally, that he never could consent to an ex tension of suffrage of which property was not to be the basis.—(Hear, hear.)—He supported this measure because he was opposed to universal suffrage : he supported it be cause he looked with horror on the thought of anything in the shape of revolution ; and he supported it because hebelieved it was the best security against all possibility of revolution. A great deal had been &lid about the em ployment of threats and intimidations. He did not think that any had been used ; and when Lord Castlereagh had come down to that House and enforced his proposition for the suspension of the habeas corpus, by alluding to the possibility of popular tumults arising; when he had en forced his arguments in favour of the Six Acts, by the sate observation ; no one had then thought of assuming that a reference to the possibility of such an occurrence was either threat or intimidation.—(Hear.)—So he referred to the present state of the country as a rea son for granting Reform ; he slid not refer to it as a threat. He felt great alarm for the fate of the country, which would be endangered, be would not say if this measure were re jected, but unless some similar measure were passed. He did not threaten the House, but was discharging his duty to his country and to the House, in stating soberly as a reason, and not as a threat, his firm and sincere conviction, that sinless some measure were adopted for admitting the middle classes to an effective share of the representation, the institutions of this country would be exposed to great danger. He supported the measure, not merely as a mea sure of Reform, but as a measure of conservation. If the House wished to exclude revolution, this measure was ne cessary, and it must be adopted as a means of safety for a desired end. If it was said that property and intelligence were the bases of a representative Government, it was only by means of intelligence, it was only by means of pro perty, that such a Government could be preserved.— (Hear, hear,) If property and intelligence ought to govern the country ; if it was necessary to keep out the mass that property and intelligence should be represented, why new compel them to side with the multitude and join the enemies of order—(Cheers)? Were the times such that the cause ofgood Government could spare one of its natural allies—(Hear, hear.)? If he wished to set before the House in the strongest light the evils of the present system of representation, he would refer to the northern part of this City. If he had that foreigner who had been intro duced first into the debate by the Noble Lord who opened it, and had been subsequently used by almost every speaker—if he had that foreigner, and wished to make him fully sensible of the peculiar evils of our system, he would conduct him to that great city which lies to the north of Oxford-street and the west of Russell-square. There be would show him a city that exceeded in size the capitals of mans: kingdom', and even superior in intelligence and knowledge to any city on the face of the globe. He would there show him long lines of intermin able streets and spacious squares, filled with well-built magnificent houses, inhabited by opulent e.rul intelligent men, some of the first eitieene of the State.—(Hear. ) Ile would show that stranger the magnificent shop', the splendid apartments; he would like to carry him to the Palaces that stretch along each side of tine Regent's Park, and he would tell him that the rental of these palaces and houses exceeded the rental of all Scotland at the time of the Union—(Hear, hear)—and then he would tell that stranger that all this wealth and intelligence were unre presented.—(Hear, hear.)---He should not need to refer him to Leeds or Manchester, or Macclesfield, or to tell him that Scotland bad only the shadow of a tepreeentation.— The principle of the property tay, he believed, was that no income below 1 aoi. per annum should be taxed ; and he doubted, should he include only the property assessed to that tax, if he should find one-half of the persons who paid that tax had any votes for representatives. One fiftieth part of those persons returned a greater ntimber of representatives than slid the other forty-nitre parts, Ours, then, was not a Government on the principle of property; it was only a Government founded on some fragments of property, and no principle whatever presided ever its for neation.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Oxford stated that it never was better; but they were not there to inquire into what it had been, but to make it what it ought to be. They were not antiquaries, but legislators. —(Cheers.) It was their duty to consider whether it could be made batter than it was at present. The Constitution might have been good at some fofmer time, but it slid not now correspond to the existing state of the country. If it had stood still, the population and intelli gence of the country had been continual'y in progress. The Noble Lord (Stormont) said openly and manfully, that the borough he represented was the !wale now as it was when.it was first called on to send representatives to Parliament in the time of Edward I. Lut though that borough was the. same, did the Noble Lord hot conside r that the population of the country had since that time materially changed? Was it the same now as in the days of Edward I. ? What were then small places had now be come large cities, and the population ) which did not then exceed two millions, was new multiplied seven-fold. The increase of wealth was even greater than the increase of the population, and both had materially changed. They, however, were to legislate for their own time, and hot for the ages that were past—(Hear)—they could not possibly think it right that the seat of Government should he trans ferred to York, and that London should be only the second city of the tmpire, because York was the capital of the country in the time of Constantius Chlorus? Was the representation of the country, adapted for two millions of people, to be now kept as it was established in the thirteenth century? It was a complaint, he believed, that this Con stitution had been violated, and those who supported that measure were accused of wishing still further to violate it. But which of the laws bad not been violated ? They had all been violated. The Hon. Member for Oxford should recollect, that by the old Original Constitution it was the right of the Commonalty to raise the taxes; that right w as guaranteed to th e su bj ec t s b y Magna Charta—so was f w. ‘raedotri from arrest. W as t h a t never v i o l ated ; or, rather, h Habeas not continually violated downs to the time of passing t e Corpus Act? Great changes had taken place in e v ery pa r t o f soc i ety since the period referred to. Now ' PraPertY had b een called into existence ;' society had ;a awned a different form, and much capital and much wegilth, which were formerly unknown, were now unrepresented. Some townshad sunk to villages, others had remained sta tionary, but many had risen from villages to he as large as London in the time of the Flantagenets.—(llear, hear.) Society had grown, but the policy of the Government had remained still ; and the form of that must be renewed, to make it accord With that on which it depends.—(Hear.) It was time, then that our institutions should be new mo delled. But when it was said that we ought not to alter these institutions, because they were established by our an cestors, we ought to consider what they would do in our circumstances. He Wei not rieeide the wisdom of our an castore, but thought that they had modelled our institu tutions to suit the circumstances of their own times. He would not do as our ancestors had do"e, but he would do as they would do if thy were in our circumstances. His Ilonoureole Friend (the Member for Oxford) had de scribed the measure as revolutionary. Was he not then aware that society was always in a state of revolution, and that institutions must be changed to correspond to it That was confirmed by the political iiietory of every country in Europe-, The political history of the world could not be opened without finding some new interest coming into ex istence; at first it was weak, and was trampled on—then it grew strong, and pressed on those who trampled on it. If protection were then granted, well—if it were not granted, a struggle began. Such was the struggle between the Plebeians and Patricians at Rome, and such was the struggle between the Cities and Nobles of Italy. Such was the struggle between the North American Colonies and the mother country. Such was the struggle in Ireland between the Catholics and Protestants, till the former were released from their servitude. Such too, was the struggle now going on in Jamaica between the free men of colour and the aristocracy of the skin ; and such was the struggle between the middle classes of England and the aristocracy—men of localities—the aristocracy merely of gentlemen not distinguished for talents or genius —and which, by withholding a due share of the representation from the middle order, was making itself noxious in the si g ht of a ll Europe, which beheld with wonder the wealth and intelligence of the people whom this aristocracy ex cluded from political power.—(Hear.) The Hon. Mem ber for Oxford said that the great unrepresented cities had their interests as well taken care of as if they w, re repre sented, and that his votes were given as much with a view to the interest of Manchester as Oxford. That was the old doctrine of virtual representation, and he confessed that he could not understand the reasoning of those who stood up for virtual represeneation, and would not give real representation, because it was noxious. He could not comprehend how that power which was virtually so bene ficial, should be, when directly exorcised, so injurious. If the influence were good virtually exercised, it must be good directly exercised. It was a strange position to hold, that virtual representation were good, and that real repre sentation were evil. If there was an evil in change—if change as such were an evil, was not discontent, as discon tent, an evil ?—(Hear, hear, hear ?) This was the strong part of the case of those who oppose the measure. It was said that the system worked well; he denied that the system worked well as it regarded the people of England, though it might work well for a few people in that House. Was that a good system which was approved of by no other 658 men in the kingdom? Let them take the same nuinber of men by chance from the shopkeepers and [respectable middle class in any part of the country, and they would say that the system did not work well. Let them take any number of the middle classes by lot, then they would find that tire people had no confidence in the present representation. He was not de fending this feeling, he was only arguing from it as a fact, and it would be well if it were abstained from ; but, ex isting in the people, it was a proof that they believed that the system worked ill. There were many things which made the representation unpopular. It was the theory of the Constitution that property should be represented. Why not make the practice comply with the theory? He believed that the people did not forget what was due to the King, and what was due to the Peers. It was against that House that the popular voice was raised. The Noble Lord who had introduced the subject stated that the House of Commons was unpopular.—(Hear, hear.) — Was not that tire state of the case.—(No, no, and hear.) —He believed it was, and there was a good reason for corruptio optimi pessima. Burke had properly described the House of Commons as a check, not on, but a check for the people. There were many other checks on them, but the House of Commons was the cheek for them. " If the salt have lost its savour, wherewith shall it be salted?" If the check for the people was corrupted, how were they to keep other evils in check ? It was not extraordinary, then, that the people should have lost their feelings of respect for the House of Commons. They bad not lost their respect for the King--they bad not lost their respect for the Aristocracy, as long as the Aris tocracy remained in its proper sphere ; but they had lost their respect for the Representative system of the country. It was said that this was a tersporary feeling_ that it was the result of the revolution in Belgium and in France.—(Hear.) He hail read history very falsely if the feeling sprang from these causes. The plague of discon tent was not the growth of the day.—( Hear.) It pos sessed all the symptoms of a deep-seated malady. The present discontent had been growing through two genera tions. The Legislature had tried every means in its power to put an end to it.—(Hear.) It had called new laws into operation. What had it not done? Was it to be supposed that any probable measure of cure had veered the subtlety of Burke or the sagacity of Windham ? Had not every species of coercion been tried by Lord Londonderry ? (Hear.) Had not laws been passed to put down public meetings and to enthral the Press ?-( I Lear. ) And was not the evil still in existence, and Was it not increasing from day to day ? What had they not done to palliate it ?--and what more palliatives could they try ? What further palliatives bad they? Under these circumstances, the Government pro posed to adapt the system of representation to the present state of the country, which the Noble Lord (Stormont) s e emed to regard with horror, as if the system tnat was several centuries old was adapted to the 'political feelings and rights of the people of this day. The measure was a practical measure, adapted to the wants of the country. It Wile founded on the good practical principle of giving to the middle classes political power. It was calling into alliance with the ordinary principle of good Government ell the intelligenc e of the middle classes.—(Hear.) fl e congratulated the Ministry on their standing or falling by such a measure:--(Cheers.) If he were in their place, he would rather fall with such a system of represent/tine, than stand on any other question.--(Cheers.) The objec tions made to the Noble Lord's plan seemed to him not im.. portant. The Hon. Member for Oxford had stated one objection, which, if it were well founded, would he an attack on other parts of the Constitution. The Hens Member for Oxford told the House that a reformed House of Commons cuuld not exist for ten years with out pulling down the Throne, and destroying- the House of Loins. It Was impossible the flononrahle Member said, that the property and intelligence of the middle classes could be adequately represented without the result being to pull down the majesty of the Throne and the dignity of the Aristocracy. If that were a true dencrip• tion—if that could be laid to the charge of the country, which he did not believe ; if that argument were correct, it spoke volumes Against the Monarchy and the Aristo cracy. Nothing ever said by Thomas Paine could be more injurious. Monarchy and Aristocracy were not va luable in tleemselVes. They were means to an end. It the Bill should produce a republic by impteting the re presentation—(Hear, hear,)—though he was convinced it would have no such effect—(llear, hear)--if what the Hon. Member for Oxford says siiere trtei if giving the great body of the intelligent and middle classes a share rn the Government would lead to the destruction of the Aris tocracy, And the demolition of the Throne, what did that imply but that these two were opposed to the welfare of the nation?—(Hear, hear.)—lt would not hear an argu ment to assert, that admitting the middle classes to a share of the representation would subvert the Government Of the King and the Peers. If that were the only objection to the measure, there was no ground whatever fur opposing it. Further, it was said that many great and eminent men had been returned for boroughs. He admitted that fact ; but in ettiinating it fairly it teas necessary to consider general tendencies, and not accidents. Des potism was detestable as a system : but it had some good accidents and be would nof, therefore: like to submit to a master who might destroy him at any mo ment.—(Hear, hear.) It would scarcely be possible by any other mode of election not to bring some eminent men into the House. If the boroughs were done away, able men would still find their way into it. If 100 of the tallest men of the kingdom were to be elected Mem bers of Parliament, some among them would be eminent. If 100 men of a tawny complexion were to be representa tives, men of eminence, too, would b e f o u n d amongst them.—(A laugh.) In ancient times a ki n g was chosen by the neighing of a horse ; and though nobody would re commend that mode of choosing a kin g , it might happen that the one so chosen might be a good king. In the great city of Athens it was well known that all public officers were chosen by lot, which could not be recommended, yet it had once caused Socrates to be chosen, and had enabled him to resist an unjust measure. It was, therefore, not the accidents of any system but its general tendencies that must be considered. Whatever Might be our sysfem Of representation, cleyer men would fi n d th e ir way into that House. They might not be the same men as would. come in under the borough system, but they would be men of talents, and no one man was indisponiably ne cessary. A great nation needed no one individual. Let them give the country good institutions, and they would be sure to find good and great men.—(Cheers.) Some Hon. Members said the measure was attacking property ; and the Hon. lember for Newton (Mr. Twiss) compared it to the proceeding which took place at the dose of the reign of Charles 11. for disfranchising the cities and bo roughs. lie was rather surprised at this, because the Noble Lord who brought in the Bill had anticipated this argument, and had reminded the House of a recent case, which should have prevented the Hon. Member from say ing one word. If the franchise were property, as the Noble Lord (Darlington) said, which was not to be taken away without a compensation—if, as the lion. Gentleman said, it was not to be withdrawn but after a judicial in vestigation, and after proof of guilt, and after some crime had been fully established, what must lie said to the dis franchisement of the forty-shilling freeholders, which, on this doctrine, was a flagitious robbery ? They wer e all at once deprived of their rights without any charge, without having been guilty of any crime, with out having been heard, and without a thought of com pensating them. If the franchise at Bath were a property, was it not also a property at Waterford ? and was it to be taken away in the latter case when no crime could be imputed ? It might be said, indeed, that it was a crime in the Catholic freeholders of Clare to elec- the present lion. Member for Waterford for that county, and but to punish the forty-shilling Catholic freeholders the Protestant forty-shilling freeholders had been disfran cbised.—(Hear, hear.)—There was one more circum stance to which he would allude. Every one, he believed, of the Hon. Members who had spoken on the other side had all said that his Majesty's Ministers had at some former time opposed Parliamentary Reform. It was not for him to defend those who were so well able to defend themselves ; he would only say, that he firmly believed that the country would not think the worse of them, nor value their services the less, because they hid shown them selves capable of learning by experience, that they had profited by their observations, and were no longer op posed to what they and many others sass' was an inevi table change. He wished that other persons would learn a similar lesson.—(Hear.)—Was it possible that those who now despised this lesson could forget the humi liating lesson they were taught not long ago, by an ab solute resistance to a measure which was rendered inevi table by the progress of society ? Was it possible that those who arrogantly censured others should not recollect that they were obliged to surrender what they strove in vain to defend ? In May, 1827, he was in that House, though he had not a seat in it at that time, and he then beard the Right Hon. Baronet—of whom he wished to speak with all the respect that was not inconsistent with his sincere desire to serve his country on such an impor tant question—he had then heard that Right Hon. Baronet, who had just before quitted the office, demand of the Go vernment of that day what it meant to do with respect to the Test and Corporation Acts, Parliamentary Reform, and Catholic Emancipation ; and then the Right Hon. Ba ronet stated that he should give to these questions his de cided opposition. Such was the case four years ago, and how stood the case now with these three great questions? The Test and Corporation Acts had been repealed, and they were repealed by the Ministers who succeeded Mr. Canning. The peual laws against the Catholics had been repealed, and they also were repealed by the Mi nisters who succeeded \lr. Canning. There remained Parliamentary Reform ; and whoever beheld the signs of the times,—the important signs that were hourly manifested,—must be convinced, that unless the question of Parliamentary Reform were speedily set tled—unless the people were given some share in the representation, and had their affection for our institutions restored, there was great hazard of our being exposed to a most fearful danger.—(No, no, hear, hear.)—He could not believe that those versed in political affairs would net so read these signs, and would not be convinced that the representation of England must be altered before 1860. Why, then, did they now wait? Was it merely to show that they had not profited by experience? Did they wait till the public resolution became irresistible—did they want more disturbances—a larger mass of discontent—a more perfect system of organization—a higher collection of rent —more skilful agitators—and a more complete develop ment of power than that which existed in 1827? Were those scenes to be acted over again? Or were those who, as Ministers had brought that on, were now crying out " No Reform !" to become Reformers, as they had then cried " No Popery !" to become emancipators.—(Cheers.) Had they forgotten the history of Ireland, where the Ca tholics were indulged in rebellion, because they were denied justice.—(Hear.)—There were signs abroad, and none could see them with his eyes, or hear them with his cars, or understand them with his heart, and not think it his duty to stand between them and the great and serious effects which might be antici pated. Reform should be given as a means of preserva tion.—(llear, hear.)—Now, then, when everything was alarming around us—when it would be madness to invite a struggle with that spirit of the age which had just crushed the proudest Crown in Europe, and when we 3 , 1 W the palaces of our King supplying an ignominious asylum to the expelled heir of forty Kings—when we have seen the great discontent, but while the heart of England was yet sound, while the national feelings of many old associa- tions were yet retained bound to the honour and character of the country, and which might soon, too soon, pass away—now was the accepted and sure time—(Cheers; no, no. )—Now was the accepted time—this was the day of our salvation, when, if we did not act in a faulty spirit of consistency, but with a due regard to the signs of these portentous times—now was the promised mo ment, the worthy time, when the great debt due from the aristocracy to the people should he paid, and which, if paid, would be long remembered, and would never be forgotten by the people, whose happiness it would secure. If they attended to these signs, they would secure the safety of the country, and rich advantages to all. If the measure were lost, he prayed to God that those who should vote against it might never be brought, by the re sults of that vote, to regret their conduct—might never regret not having employed the means in their power to prevent the di-moltition of social order.—(Cheera continued for some time.) Lord MAHON had on a former occasion supported the motion of the Noble Lord for Reform, but he opposed this because it was not Reform, but a total change in the Con stitution. Notwithstanding the declaration made by the Noble Lord opposite, that the Government had brought forward the present proposition to avoid, he believed in his conscience that it would produce, revolution.—(Hear.) 111 r, HUNT said that lie had risen several times last night in the hope of catching the Speaker's eye, but lie had not been lucky enough to succeed. He had two reasons for wishing to obtrude himself thus early OR the attention of the House—first, because be had been for the last ten days labouring under indisposition, and he was afraid he should not be able to deliver his sentiments late in the debate; and secondlyf because he did not anticipate to learn any thing new from Hon. Speakers on either side of the House about this great question of Reform, to the consideration of which he had devoted a great portion of his life. He had hitherto listened to what had fallen from Hon. Members attentively and acutely—(Laughter)—aye, most acutely—(Alaugh)—and particularly to the statement of the Noble Lord opposite, the Paymaster of the Forces, and he had no hesitation in saying that the measure brought forward by the Noble Lord had gone far beyond What he (Mr. Hunt) had anticipated.—(Hear.) Ile had been alluded to personally several times during the present debate ; and having taken so prominent a part out of doors with respect to the question of Reform, he was sure that etwentmillions. beyond c erely and honestly declared his sentiments i n th a t H ouse . lie should do so the more unequivocally, b ecause h e was co nvinced that the observations he was a b out to ma k e wou ld express e re eof f s exp eetexpectations; that buttlre voiceGot'e r Government n he regretted that the Noble Lord, in explaining it to the House, had so unequivocally expressed hi s opinion against eLa the the ballot and universal suffrage. The Noble Lord wished, it scented, to steer a middle course between the two con tending parties,--that which desired no Reform, and that which Was anxious for a more extensive, and what the Noble Lord had chosen to designate a visionary, Reform. He sincerely hoped that the Noble Lord would not verify the old adage, that between two stools a man was likely to come to the ground.—(Laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Member for Newport (Mr. H. Twiss) bad fearlessly and manfully declared himself against any Reform whatever, and had called on the House to adopt his views. The lion. and Learned Member in the fist place accused the Noble Lord opposite of going too far, and then in the latter part of his speech, as if for the purpose of currying favour with such Reformers as he (Mr. Hunt) was, declared that the Noble Lord bad not gone far enough to satisfy the wishes of the people. He should not take the trouble to refute the lion. and Learned Gentleman's arguments, because the latter part of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman's speech completely answered the former part. He had listened to the speech of the Hon. Member for Gatton (Mr. Shelley) who bad expressed himself opposed to Reform; and having heard that lion. Member cheered by the side of the House on which he (Mr. Hunt) stood, he assumed that the sen timents of the Hon. Member were the !same as were enter tained by his side of the House ; and as the Hon. add Learned Member for Caine (Mr. Macaulay) had been cheered by the other side, he assumed, for the sake of argu • ment 4 that that tiona and Learned Gentleman represented the feelings of that side of the House.—(Laughter.) The Hon. and Learned Gentleman had unequivocally de clared himself against universal suffrage, and his reason for supporting the measure of the Noble Lord oppo site was because it admitted the middle classes to, and excluded the lower classes from, the elective franchise. He (Mr. Hint) was sorry that such an opinion should hare been expressed, if it were only utteresi for the pur pose of conciliation. If the Hon. and Learned Member had any real and honest intention to conciliate the people, would he have spoken of them in the manner he had done ? He would have asked the Hon. and Learned member, had he not left the House, whether, when he called the people a rabble, and unfit to be intrusted with the elective franchise, lie was willing to exempt that rabble from paying taxes and serving in the militia ? be cause if he did, then, and then only, would there he any sense in his observations. Hie (Mr. H.'s) opinions were well known to the country. He had fearlessly and man.- fully advocated the rights of the people, and he should Ile unworthy of a seat in that House, if on an occasion like the present, he did not advocate the same sentiments there. He had always contended for the right of every one to have a share in the elective franchise, because he had been taught to believe that the Constitution of England admitted of this principle—that representation and taxation went hand in hand, and that no man ought to be called upon to pay taxes unless he had a share in the representation. Was he to he told that the people, who had fought the battles of the country—the lower orders, whom he called the useful classes of society, were to he called upon to pay taxes on every article of human subsistence, and after wards denied the right of choosing their representatives ? He plainly told the House, and he spoke the voice of mil lions, that such an exclusive doctrine would give no satis faction out of doors. He was delighted to hear that the rotten boroughs were all to be sacrificed. Some Hon. Members had called the measure proposed by the Noble Lord not Reform, but revolution, and an alteration of the Constitution. Now he would admit that statement to he cerrect the moment it was proved that rotten boroughs were part of the Constitution.—(Hear, hear.)—When the lion. and Learned Member for Caine (Mr. Maeaulay) talked of the rabble, the Hon. and Learned Member had looked very hard at him (Mr. Hunt.)—(Great laughter.) —He understood the meaning of that laugh, and he was only sorry that the Hon. and Learned Member hail not remained in his place, that he (Mr. Hunt) might have looked in the same way at him.—(Continneil laughter. ) How, he asked, was that House constituted ? How were many Hon. Members elected. Look to the borough t f Il chester, and the boroughs of Lancashire and Cornwall, and see what classes of men returned Members to that House. He would tell the House of a fact which had come to his knowledge, and which bore on this particular point. In the borough of Ilchester, where he was seat to gaol for two years and six months—(Great laughter)—he under stood the meaning of that laugh again —but he repeated that in Ilchester many of the electors were of the most de graded and lowest class, who could neither read nor write, and who always took good care to contract debts to the amount of 351. previous to an election, because they knew that those debts would be liquidated for them. Was that, then, the class of men whom the House was told repre sented the property of the country 2—(Hear, hear.) He was one who thought that that House ought to be what it professed to be—the Commons House of Parliament, re presenting the feelings and interests of all the common people of England. He did not stand up to approve of the disfranchisement of any person, because he had always contended for the right of the whole people of England to have a share in time representation. That the people of England were perfectly competent to choose proper repre sentatives he was fully convinced. He had been in the habit. for many years past, of attending large public meet ings, composed of persons whom the Hon. and Learned Member for Caine had chosen to call the rabble ; but he would undertake to say that they were a much more in telligent rabble than the electors of Caine.—(Laughter.) That Caine was one of the most degraded of rotten boroughs ; and he wondered by what chance the Ministers had overlooked that most rotten anti stinking hole of cor ruption in their sweeping measure of Reform.—(Loud laughter, and cries of " Hear.") They had been told by the Hon. and Learned Member for Caine, that if the pre sent measure was not conceded to the middle classes, we should have revolution and massacre. What sort of mas sacre was it that the Hon. and Learned Member had alluded to ? He (Mr. Hunt) remembered that when the people of Manchester assembled together in 1819, as legally and as peaceably as the lion. Members were now assembled in that House. The people were assembled for the purpose of petitioning for a Reform in Parliament and a repeal of the corn laws ; and their petition was couched in much more respectful and moderate language than many petitions which had been presented to that House. Then, indeed, there was a massacre.—(Cries of, " No, no.") He said yes. The meeting was constitutionally and peaceably as sembled, and what was the result ? Why, a drunken and infuriated yeomanry—(" Order, order,' " Question, ques tion,")—with newly-sharpened sabres--(" Question, ques tion")—rushed among the people, and chopped them to pieces.---(" No, no," " Order.") They slaughtered to death 14—(" No, no")--cut and badly wounded 618. Here the cries of dissent and question became so loud and frequent as to interrupt the Hon. Member for some time. At length, exerting all the strength of bits powerful voice, he exclaimed, in a tone which was heard above all the noise which prevailed in the House, " Where is the man who says no ? I repeat that this infuriated yeomanry mur dered 14—(' No, no,' Question," Order')—wounded and slaughtered 618—(' Question, question')—of as peace able and well-disposed subjects of his Majesty as any I see around me at this present moment." At that meeting he was advocating the cause of Reform, and he was asto nished to hear the Noble Lord, the Paymaster of the Forces, say, in bringing forward the present measure, that the Government had not taken up the question before be cause the people of England had not called upon them in a manner to, ustify the interference of Government. The people of England had for many years past been anxious for Reform, and in the years 1816, 1817, 1818, and 1819, had loudly expressed their wishes for some measure to amend the state of the representation. He did not be lieve that Ministers, in bringing forward the present mea sure, had yielded to any thing like intimidation, or were frightened by thus violent language of the petitions which had been presented to the House ; yet those who had watched the signs of the times must know that, until some measure of Reform should be granted, there would he dan ger.—(Hear.) He did not condemn the Ministers for not going the full length of his views on the subject; on the contrary, he would give the measure they bad intro duced the support of his humble powers, both in-doors and out of doors.—(Hear.)—lf, indeed, they had only gone the length of disfranchising one rotten borough, they would have had his support on principle. But he was sorry for the intemperate language which the lion. and Learned Member for Caine had been betrayed into as it had a tendency to create a great division out of doors, and make the people believe that it was a question:of the middle classes against the lower orders.—(Hear, hear.)—He contended that the labouring mechanic, who paid from Si, to 101. a-year in taxes, and earning his 30s. per week, would give as independent and honest a vote as any per son; and he gave notice, that if the labouring classes were excluded from the representation, he should move that they should be exempted from serving in the militia, navy, or army, or paying taxes.—(oh, oh.)—When we departed from principle, we always got into difficulties. He appealed to the lawyers, whether the principle of the Constitution was not, that all men were entitled to a share in the representation ? When any man was indicted in a Court ofJustice, and pleaded in mitigation that he was ignorant of having committed any offence against the laws, he was told, that be ought to know what the laws were, be - cause he was a party to those laws by himself or his representative. He certainly thought that the scene which was exhibited in that House yesterday, when the Noble Lord brought forward the Reform measure, had never been equalled since the time of the revolution, when Cromwell came into the House, and took away the bauble of the mace. When he was tried, condemned, and sentenced to suffer two years and six months' imprisonment in a dungeon.— (Laughter, and cries of " Question.")—lle thought it very hard that while some Members, in arguing the ques tion of Reform, bad gene back to the time of Edward 11., he %vas not allowed to refer to transactions which had taken place within the last twenty years.—(Question, question.) —Well, then, he would tell the people of England that the man they hail sent to that House to advocate their rights was not allowed to be heard.—(No, no.)—But he said yes, yes. 'When, he repeated, he was condemned to suffer two years and six months' imprisonment in a soli tary dungeon—(Laughter)—for advocating that question which was now advocated by so many Hon. Members in that House, he little expected to see a measure of Reform proposed by Government; though he knew that Lord Memberr street Caln w e o had said Chatham had said, that if R eform did not come from within, it would come from w ithout with a ven g eance.— e(,Fl,iederatrh(.ll)r---teantnToliireoefil)!tna. invading f a e n w d Learned craz y the, rights radicalsf the throne. He asked the Hon, and L earned Member where an y of these crazy radicals were to be met with ? He was as e .i a e i d tho rough-going a radic al as ever p aced the Strand, but he in the fo the defied the Hon. an d Learned Gentleman to prove that he had ever proposed to attack the privileges of the Crown, though he had often enough protested . against the profligate tie tht tavagence of te tmy o the thione.--(Qu earini' Itates e t'ul ext —lt was the profligacy ) ofte n last reign, the extravagant a n d. t . d of the family on the throne, and the miscon duct of the Hou:allied House, which had brought the institutions of the counte te tt e wei into disrepute.—(Question, question.)--He hoped hr that trusted that the present measure would pass , and he i e Ptrs ee e et lieved that the Hon. and Learned Member who had ms G at i: tot use of such intemperate language would repent having d oe , ' W iiil n) at would it s t h o , e t h % .ihoei,nes excluded c: fi fl („i e ce c dt e ft . r l hoaint how ntihL l )r ii e r op g fr e et hsacenptuarttiioo militial. of the Pe ° Y, i e , 1 iessi ' th stated th e. ? ho, e pa pers" w o rnti ll3 a had lately been distributed, had been returned, and exc is t r fo e , VI tion claimed, because the parties signing had no sha re in h e I Lord representation. In the northern part of the eeentrY, C knew that the young turn had declared that they worth! real' et4h tla o y rot in gaol than serve in the militia, sinless they W ere , :„ d lowed a voice in choosing Members of Perliarne°" i (" No, no !") lie told the House plainly, that if he w t e i r k r , l the aani in the saute situation as those men, he would aet in . arse ~lr, same manner—(Laughter)—and if he could not be a li f ar t , hearing in that House, he knew what course he should tl take. He had been in gaol, and he knew that it n el 1 killed men, nor altered their opinions. Ile highly reo clear ro be spccted the talent of the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir B. : o d Prer s : t f in whose custody lie once was.—(Laughter.) I le Ri g ht e l / 4 1 eli s ai V('ry Baronet; different anrl f , ti standing t riu Tu e s c e t t ri o s t t li e 4 : 4 :ta f e (' on a re re- "In e and sentative of the people of Preston, he considered It un e te . quite a, hi g h i n the scabof society as the Right Hon. et , 're el - 4 'es ronet.—(L aug ht er .) P er h aps h e m i g ht be thought ta ,t r i , 1104 t led prove of th e mea s ure b e f ore t h e H ouse , b ec ause hi' c lrel h at tuents were in no wise touched by it : but if theY,o33l *its t Wa s been affected by it, yet, this being a great c onstitu t t „ it I 'llas e et ‘ f9 fice being ti o Si r uld ely tl '1 a :11 question,li°.h'ear, 11n':a;ast:Pleb.tibo)eserei(e:nente':freL5e;:;jaseitt'dglirlitehc;It make ni ,leegard to endfen h rec: u teocom t sne , sBssas o t:' ain‘y n t'r;; t etPo h hn: e aLharl:: : rnill:cti je'crtg:;:i the 4:aficu:sieteloaci( to be p i t i l e aa fo t re it i h ie ar ,, l ,, a t l s w h a , s n s io l u re r e e n d c4ns it ir s le c r i e o l ic a e n . ex r t , r o e r me o l ‘ y o g (te se d esil . a b as e i is t ,oaril e rnet i „ they elected the Right Hon. Secretary for Ireland. to r P.e electors for Preston were never found fault with th e t red t e "e ' fsmily connexions, nor great property, for would they be now, if the manner in which they elec ted t he t h it ter t him (Mr. Hunt) were properly, known. 110 ," a e a rr Pea t s .. intent had taken care that lie should not be 3 ,1 r el of a r l :f i t t . e:r r t n o t h e n ( e: roan. He had not . forced himself on the 11001 t" , str e l - I nat Manchester was then,st originally amassacre. they hey i nii done there n h e celectors o o t r t is l i e l ) 7 , o l doat - W o f tj'h e ' t ads d oi t i l teit were in the possession of the great manufacturers. free a rm, wh o electors had been struggling for twenty year , t c ' t o c , kedg themselves from the power of their masters. 0 0 the trir t'aceete'vi easion four hundred families were turned out 0 1 t ea lia tet ti homes for having voted for him. At the last electian !o f f for electors railed upon him to come forward ; but be °P o d t e tsa se a i ' t ur, that they were hound down by the manufacture,* it e? "Se letta 4 te that he would not come forward. What was the s e t , e' s r 'INA kr of The election took place, and without his being p"afor W e e t r h e f within 200 miles of the place, 3,030 electors Onsiglit "nle, L o him in throe days. Why did they not vote for the ; l os ';,Pr e , e Hon. Member for Windsor (Mr. Stanley)? Not hee d tite r oues hat they bare any hostility to him, but because they had tea cart' e i 'kd 11 1, 4 Act of Settlement, which said that no placernan as "le Is e z - e ee sinner should sit in the House of Commons. .Ag e l'eri t * e itla must declare his objection to the qualification sv j 'ech/ 1 1 a Ye t i r Y e ' was proposed should entitle a person to a vote. t s ern, t should not a man who paid a rent of 91. be entitled ! t o !he t a te an vote as well as his neighbour who paid I/. m ore. e e h ek eral measure which was now brought forward should ttthte,erni_isl cotnpanied by the vote by ballot, it would prove bee r die . 4 ctser l ' e If not, Le believed that it would only tend to rendes oe 'den state of the representation more corrupt by i nc reast eg a ife !ke el !' in power of the aristocracy, who"e dependents would 101 N .. : to the privilege of voting. The question of Reform bad, (thea4 t on the present occasion been agitated by itinerant o , t ,"e for `.llt , e j4t as used 'to be said to be the case formerly. It Was ft` l ' e t de e 411 inci 4)- ' by the voice of the united kingdom. He believed tr a ce r 1 th e wh ti n i F el present measure would create such agitation as ha u ee rite e ' been known.—(Hear, from the Opposition.) M o il)" eret a l e —r ; of the Common Hall and Common Council of the PI (I lene - 0 e ' London were about to take place, and he hor„„,, r , there would be meetings in every town and '"''T e ee t ' t'red hats the kingdom. He had nothing to sles with that o a es e t t 4ttle, e at ings. Whilst he :was allowed to speak in that °45 ‘lN ber ut he would do very little our of doors. Whilst he Ad k il eets, ot b' allowed to express his opinions in that House, h e g iti, a 41,' ‘‘. leave it to others to agitate out of doors.—(Ue sr " I t lee r Jest: laugh:)—No new light hail broken in upon hi nl e e : iletalr4le sa 17( point. He bad always said the same thing when ": attended purity dinners, and other affairs of that hit l 0 which a little knot of representatives were accusteal,'o aljwitlPm"i" utter language which they did not dare to use wit ' per: 4 : 4 4 le ' t t avails of that House. Ile had always said that th°° e sr", ettiuter . sons ought not to dictate to the people out of doca s o, 1 0 ; N il, le sa they had the power of speaking in the House. ele g a nt out of doors expressed opinions with respect to tba g o'l 1; 41 4: - (A l t which were, perhaps, erroneous. He had Ok eli fi lli c ; r ; opinions from others. Judging from the treatrnenti 0 b a ," " a he had met with in the llouse, he should says t ler 1). 1 , 4 te t e , tv ' the thve-t:el'e House had been misrepresented to him. He d id l' e ltl il° o t t l angry at being occasionally interrupted. He y e i ter ce' e " t 'elat tie dies ain generally trespass so long on the House as he ha d I te d of 4 the present ocaasioe, but having so long rativo ce d ", ta t l eft principle of Reform out of doors, he should 113 : 1 ioa t ' e l e ea lit ashamed of himself if he bad not expressed his cr l t eleal i f et tY l upp e ,' the House. He regretted that he had been camp , %r 4 race address the House before the Right Hon. Me°,,,,,-es flt ti 4 air s -P Tamworth, and the Hon. and Learned Mern":o Boroughbridge. Hitherto he had heard nothing;;.ti, e e (I course of the debate which he was not familiar; bid', bolt teat the meetings of the Lancashire weavers. If e h ' ' i s ers I sse e tea' would permit, he would stay to hear the two I" em- A ' e th 4 bi whom he had alluded.—(A laugh.) t 11 51 , 11 tts, Lord MoereTtr and Sir C. WETHERELG rc sie : t it 1 " hi,p) th ea te , same time. There was a loud call for the latter, SrEAKEIt declared in favour of the former, and It' oft ie ein , t he ins Lord AIORPETH addressed the House. He l)cis 5111y14 i t the present moment to be the awful period 0; 6,1,:ti0r for t `;'ate before the momentous result in which the future tbc 4 r e i l ei,„ t hia ea of the country were seriously committed, srl d as CA t krti 4f Pal every one who felt a deep regard for his country „roil ' O n of upon to lift up his voice in serious and anxiou s ts ' rl t o 11 '55 It was clear, beyond all doubt, that the present (4 1 41 4 cal juncture in the history of the question °r ea p" bei t ''ati o , which bad never before occurred. The question °, sp a the e" long and often agitated, but more as a m atter o t, tho et ej h te 't him "peculation, and constitutional antiquity, and °Y e i le °ere , 4 taf taut taking such deep root in the feelings of the P c 7,e e s , gee the present occasion. It came now recomineouco 0; 0 , s t e et , notice of the representative body by the unanie ° rst D ia Pe te t hat of the whole country, and was submitted to th e o (4, g , 'la rk 's-het rnent by the confidential and responsible orfi a e, st rl ob e !e at S eed, Majesty. He would characterise the measure stye tlii te tr, 6 honest, glorious, and manful measure, althoug h , t i efOlesS !tate and Member for Aldborritiela had, described it as fr i g t oo 6. o , 4 ti e i t ", horrible.—(Hear, hear.)—A more complete a a % it of pledged faith had never been given than b) , ,0 0 ,1 14 4 11 04 niaters who had brought forward the pregen t ii ieb i :i bi r h e as He would not deny that it presented points on %," PTO t vs eN t ingenuity might fasten—at which petty cri tic i t 01( • ,ftl, tt Cat cavil, or even conscientious caution pause ; " te ae gt# 4 .) aal k the root of the evil, end the remedy pror ee "oitt. P- 01 ef tical and easy. It placed the elective franchise tit , 0 t est !es e ' ; ‘ ''h: reach not only of the man of property, but of 0 0 4 0. 0 0 qt t ,"q's common industry it enabled a man to o, a r c " tt%that House without possessing . the snails of a Vs ° , for ; :otr . A i a favour of a Corporation. The Hon. Menth e ,' alit i e l i er ton had comp' rine(' that the plan submitted Menthe, e irt‘ c excluded all the lower classes from a share t.° t its f° i t ' i lait st ; sentation, but he (Lord Morpeth) thought t . s. s sl , .ssbyre k h ohl t hs would ire to inspire those classes with a v l ' t b ' ea ° e ye' t t tel provide them with the means, of obtaining bei;pett: ioq in the representative system.—(Hear, he 3r 4oo. :sl ° A There was, however, one thing in which the .1 00 n : lio ir ask e s:ea I her for Preston and the Noble Member for e t. r es „ t he gala 'es I t s piled both agreed—namely, in bringing a charge' e s d p tens for not disfranchising Gable, Taviatock,:; tope ea' o'eht." borough. The statement which he was ak 0 , 15. 5 t; rltate, would satisfactorily account for them n ot hts‘ o t ei‘t 1 0 010 , Caine contained 4,549 inhabitants ; Taet: t eet, , t ,e and Knaresborough, 5,283. —(Hear, hear.) e e r ' A so 1 ,;,Y than this, he begged leave to tell the Mernher the 1 00 4 pulous town of Preston, and the Ale-ober t f a h r oetech h: e r tt , ;o )r ite 11 10 : t1 t) t i t h i : Aldborough—(A larret)—that though nC were not disfranchised, they were opened.-'l, ` t h cer on c kt 4 l'l//4 Of the other boroughs he could not IVA 1: 0 1d but he knew that after Knareaborough of of t o opened, it would be impossible for the P"l te tieb e eet° e r th . se t r: shire to influence the voters. tie had h eir , but b tf e,' danger of advancing in the canoe Refort n o ; iti lo tee t he s !t he tr, `*: avialt any one to point out the safety of r t : 3 fret ° 9 a 'li s ten er ; b at e as were. Was there no danger of ae° t be e °t a t t l e " a , present representatives and the constitone 8 01 0 e alienation of these two bodies had long b ri e t hat t or If the House were not blind or mad, the,' ;50 rye toh,te blessed loan of the present hour. It ' 3 o :i e n t° ,,tia ° l 4 if t :li s Z , l :l 4 measure muncher consideration was a cone; coo tit ied te e , 't 1%, 4' 4 termineal and rancorous enemies of ti n fad& r ' O tb be r 'its sa• that it was their wishes which were heing so s fa oe 'ta its Its tt a , tt e i: work which was beine done. The caec,ere stye e 0 the wise. If such meddid exist, and there " lore the 13 it tot i 4 , 41 41 found crazy radicals in every country who 0J the fc ( i ) v f mgho nearest a ,es Governmentttheir ahrevaltstesici;laso,rdtZtat,,e,,Pieeiciar,;oeelgeletidotd. tat •e obstinately reface the amelioration Whl e° f theo. hi s 11 s 4 etep sl by the sound and discriminating son'et°,,Attiodni k e Hoe Ithacus vent, et magno Mer_c_ c o r or ded s The history of the CsOolie qUeStioll