The Sun. — London, England, 1825-05-18 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT, HOUSE OF LORDS, TUISDAY, MAY 17. In consequence of the interesting subject which came on this evening, the House of Lords was crowded below the bar at an tally hour. A number of Members of the other House of Parliament, several Ladies, and otrter distinguished visitors, took. their places on the steps of the Throne, and all that part ortb?.ilause was ; as crowded as belay( the Bar. Great atten tion, however, had been paid to the arrangements, by Sir .Thos, trig every person. who , could I1)e accommodated, and had an order , Found 'a readyand easy., admittance.. Owing to tieeirc:ellon t arrangements, these was ; no crusbing,.as we live • ; witnessed on other,occasions,.a.nd those wholiad thities to per form, were provided with as good accommodation aa..the place below the Bar supplies.- Their Fugal highnesses the Dukes of lirtsyk and Sussex, the Dukes .of Devonshire, Beaufort, New eastle,Doreet, Buckingham, and . a great number of Other . Peers, tune atta.l .early -hour. The entrance 'of Earl Grey, with a petition :so large that his Lordship could hardly carry it, ex cited it genCral laugh arid seen after • the Lord Chan ctilor took began: TREATIES. The - FAA of littrzßPoot. laid upon the table Copies of Treaties between this Country and Sweden and Norway, re specting- the Slave.Tiade . .,'Hii tOrdsfillifiin also laid on the table the Copy of a Conventiokhetween his Majesty and the Lmperor Riissia, respecting . Wrlkirorth-west Coast of Ame ritta:land the Copy' of a Treaty. ofAtnity;CorninetiN and Na rigation, between lais,Majesty, and the United Provinces of Rio de la Plata. - • • t'' .C.l.l ROMAN CATIIOLICtCLAIMS. Petitions were presented •against any-further • ConceSsions •to the Roman Catholics, front 13rnmptop A NOrtharrirtsin) by Earl S2Alsit6l , i I,"Trern a pafi , ,h (the riarne-elf Which we did not hearYhyolZAKPoktirnt! ; rrtitn iii , eitalPaiiitheiii . in•ltent;'hy Lord•Syn'stY ;_bY• tile Earl of .14 vER.Pot) i., : from •irel-anctieS ter, signed by 43,028 r.aines ; _from the :town of Liverpool, rigned liy rf. WO . nromes t kruidier frdrii! fraddin'gfdti ; anoth'er -from - The isle -ci I 8 helve) , ; from the•toltts• o gtirlin ir 4 ; fan& the ltcptch•,.kkestrytery of, London; and froMA, Baptist Congre- gationi, In f. ..,in • by the Duke of BuctuNc,,tt.i?t, from •Wttotitie t .ith"; ' i'Ar the' Lotip "ert.i•s6 - 6..t.0rt; 'from - CletlieTi-• astie;# froot , S* r sittivtiturl, Southwart ;•--frosi - ilthe • BaptiatiDis- . seßfers?ln grange (liertfurdshire); froth a Ptssentir.g, C i ongare-- katinn.iiear Ratcliffe-highway; . frOnt St. ( lave'ii Southivarl; - i affilfrosrl'Obihy•tlTeas); •-• -' Is": -- • ' • = 1 ; i •'-'l't altit dicritn . :pis.o)tcic tr. o it. preirented s. petition also against • the Catlic i lic, Claims, from • the 31inister,.-Churchwarciqw cry. ift'Perev - C,l`ni-Oel,. ratlibohe-place: •- ' • ' • '. • .- '• ' 'Lora:lit Ni: - - . sAid, .dally het bad ' liemi informed by a; Noble; Friend,.that there were some circumstances connected'. with; the.grttpg...Ap, cf thjs petition, as veriextfaordiwy, Atilt hei felt it - Wet Viity ttiS,tale them to their Lrirtisliipi. ' It'gpparetli , that l'orilasl , Supday the-llitilSter of Prity-Cthapel ioncluded . his. sern - Airt,pretty : pearly these words, 4—",Beforel .sit down I must titntcf to y . 04 that there is , now lyin , ' , in tfi Vestry e Vsstrl petitibn 3::-.7.in , t th e raainiie'Clattfis;' : itnd it 'the . ' flouie of .. • .Lart-la • r,;e . influenced by Mirnbetst.) i I- , r!tiommend - to you ~ fej males a.:',•.1 all, to sign it immediately, in,orclep,that it play be presented on Tuesday." This was a most unwarii • ntilifs dis-1 tortion of the atilholit3randittalihti•orTiTter - gyman of the Est tOlisheel .Cancels..: Theii l i ordsh ips. had. been told that reli.l eon "Might •botite be infieti ttio- ivitit- polities, Brit' here Was a; mixture which it became some of• the Right Rev: Prelates td t , ,re4d, tnite.-;,, learn, and inwhrdly digeatC . - •!, . . i. „Ae Dishop,,;f * ,i 4 oNboN, in a l ow-tone of voice , ' entered eniered gitods_n w ex . plawltion of ~t. h c facts. Be • said•• that the Cl'ergy!itan ' 'Gild' not give the'notie to the congregaiieon until afier•thearr= mon was over, and that he hail _not clone it with any iniiptoper motives. He was a pions- and . - worthy man not likely to be guilty,of chiy ; intnntional linpripriety.r He:had consi4eTed 4t as an .important,silestion, in volying, religions and theoltiglialcoo. 3 iderationx, k -ayAki thiarespect he (ttre Blifinp . .Of'fiinclot2)"*.: - curreii • witliltini. The matter came before th'e Legiidateire :in --. . a different shape, for there it assumed a political characietN, but , the Cletgyroanio-Auestionhasi never infant to regartrit but as ~. • a religious sukilect. • : . ' - . • ... - 1 1 , . The LORD CHANtiI 7 ,I4I:OII, said that the Minister had - -- - stated - the,- , fact.i so _him,' and said,that the notice vta:s not giVen until the service . wascnnpluded.: Ile added, theilie hid ,ex.; - . . :plait:ed the circumstances. to the Bishop of London, 'Who hid ' expressed hiS satisfaction with thetn.. If, th& , Bislinp Was satis. , 'fled with the conduct of tile :31inister, theze was no reason wi;y - • their Lordt:hiPs should be dissatisfied with him (the 4,i Lord . Cl m. ::.. , - - cellor) for ! prefenthig thp petition. . , ~ : .;The .Earl: of CA 4NA1,;..V0N was extreiriely surpi•iied. at •--- . the `sets. which had been det a iled. -lie ho t pell diey nails . might 1 . ... ...•• hop ell . • „.. . • • • be ..:7aae . * precildent with .thg Clergy. T : 2cuestlons to . politicit 1 were: to be riu,€eil, with those of tOeClerkry, and : intiedii . c.a into the.pulpit„-itsrcc.ris ly pre tci;r2s, - if ..r . tip ! ttea to turn E,rolet:s, arid the Church was to he ilianged.Atp i sdey4tiog . dull,. then , tlie 1 , 4 1te0. =NO to the repntatijon and. uNdity . of the Esti."6l4;Fell E el tgion f•je tegretted, to see that ilni RikhOlii. Prelate not . nnlyAid r..0.t. reproba.lestiell Coil - duct; ilt;Opt. 4e, even . 3 - Ak shout eicusinfr, it, and paliegyrized tha Clergyman- InhOliniiieT - :144 ,1.4 F4i 1 74.4 1 ),, 4 .1d., P9Attips: and: religion, J airy O'a of hit: lia.,- : "±°?Ar - 70 1 14 1 4Y.e a,n,_ equal right to stan d hp and contra_ d i:ctrir"4 ' f...wclr wiScon!ccerated„to religion alone. 'Plaa he been' fa t e C!IIIrCh lii n nscilf, and had he evren•heen in. fairdui• . 19t• t4e.,.peti f t4g.„o4,t,,f . li e a ,siNakt_ll 4 've regar . ded - it 4,..1 it 'dirtgyiiiiig. • i.ritcrlllolll l ,..:: oi,t4,,drvine_service. If the:BislipPs were se ileac to 411 miiite , ,ling. ,o s to a phlOgis_ei•Or such conduct, it Would liktiltjtFALne . v of tr,eir Lorsliiiipspx.;isk'r : the ~;Tuiclanee of the 't; oared into t.t.:.-..r .1 . 1, , f ii hands, and to res c ue ii - ±l-iiiit ilt • e•partiill . !•••criAge.,i.of 00,.!e - . who:ought ? tot saperinte . mi it.. lie really . aid , twpe , t h at Rop-p.of A' LlAifilit i ,kg. Pr - elates would rile to ex {:,ea-,ih C:l7 4 . j ap.prol,eatj,otroffitosor,46el - lef • tbli..ClggyrOan,_,.. i ...10 - lisijsteN of,the.. cti* gliiti, gone, out of their Way 7 to orocure signatures to petitions againsi the Citlialic - Claims.--- T 01.• ! ,!!r -I.llcit , excirrts _there . would liqve.:,been *few or-no i'tieh potitmc; hiuf . .up_ h eir leyrcp.d433 i416. -- Atlirst the pith] ic were aceuNed Of being in a state, Oc;apitl4 cn the silhjisiL.. alga;. fa:7' •;-• l :4ggtiliti Pe,alielnliiM'e43;l49t• - _ I 4P fr*ni Aiehile4c 6 ni, wri . kr}...in,,e4 , 4l,lie,..wnich wptAigailye. di:lgiaCed . , '0- ronr.lll- 1 tortn - lio; at Mon ;„the.ti 0, - thiuwirpi, sent in peti , ..loria'ffolb, . -.Ali . iiiiters,'C - b930.4.010445, &c., ettigjfie whole iiii . lahiner'y 4f tit;., qie f igy iv a rt,pi4t,iptpaetive_opo/ation;,••• Iteprdesied against sia. , lttlib iniertgeocc , •whicli was at ,conii. unoocumlng and in-' Jutifius to the Church. - . ' The Bishop of - I,oyrici 'erq44l . 2ei:i: • Il e s a id that lieliaiti' AoqN,Alic,ttAlle.4)iyki4Pq a gif,Celerr.ll-T:1215-'hr hail oil y . said that: fig;y,as a pious, 'and 'l,ewty r uiLan.„ - , l irith ' respect to •tlle Cli-tilt f tt. , l'4tOilissilmeiltTilmiag_prorn4ted petittinii against t«c if.ciirpiii, O l tii t iv„l4li4 0tp1 . ,14 Icily , aay_. ! _for himself; that lie 7 Laea.- rev dotif,i,t - ..,,,“ .-.. ... __ • . . :•Eilf.k.b. l l'' 1iVi4.04•41. expressed 1;4 regret at fiearing the flight. • 14, wend Prelao,speak so calmly with..,rgaiti S6 - conduet so unvr e artantp.*, t ag ao digra,cetul, es ' 'that ...which had ' been' - - . suit i e4 toslTJ,lctuice 1 .4 was shOckritrilitliilie fiest • h6iid the. stskeMent.apti . .ii,,q more so at_ Vie manner: it had been passed., . r • .. 94 , 9 , ; by , 44. 1 gi lit Reti. Pre . late, .• lip - was:, told by a person or grek yor.a•sith i _ , "the. ,ti.bpistej . irr - - ritiestiii:n; had gi yen : I tie; i 4 ~- 'mike at the en, Rf , ti;e • ecrmon l :Ema4lejr_be added the fisbitil blow- ,-4g..t0 ',ke congregation. 1 o aitztcnre-friend to the lsta laissfied it' such A.procediOg waslrto . 4pralnf t ii._ if, oo n . - ! .katia : Tt l in the_seve.rest__4ims, and KOpekthst a sin:4l4 . ln . . - -snit- t r e c,..viou i t4 nei9r -agaip - o Wnatever the ge.leial ohs, • - racigr.4 ck cie.r,gyrnan - thigi?t be, 141.° ka .in rt p ix o h li t t l ig e ri Y' ; . T .i i e i l iOs t e t ougbi to Icirov,,that such aoilitltpl.figellce irtAter, . • 7 ..'..•-•'., ~.... ... . • ' - - ' .Itrik ‘ i Lt,,,ait, alai - t!: e piielts_pf.the Catholic Church. were itilli htital_t of preaching poli44,at their altirS, ,and o f sitiriiliap iliiii-41tultfrt.to-riatred...against 04. Protestants. • ; !: - . ' . - 2,m© Cr.lFlAltreleitiAl f ilia( th'e Catholic • - Priests..ever Aid . so. Mfeha:lielgetilThe , watt 1,4 d to: - f:3771 e -it si ugl je 'I nitanee,- Nb'.- (Alqiiini• "oiPtlit ', iie r i....tO friterfAre 'with 'politics. The. • ti 'ln dort t efon, hbwever,4te -.o:f.ortil - w' say: had done -so, titOilyit'fu teMn. -- "-Flieiji- wiaie influenced - tit the. laribe-of •a ty it e of 4K4'..11f1." ln•The priittlct griarrted to them - by. that^ bloodicA of ** tYMIIIIVITorif. - V111:% - lfeliatI fl it Ilhbletitan the fiend "' 2 of arts ute , inttlegii,fienrge III: ( Leird • Barrington) say,, incl.- be ' corktft'etrittl.l4:tehlatit, diatiteicitriver i'Clergyinfin Pzeachtkr* - - potirlit' figovthe'iillfilit he olishi td have his ears-nailed to the pi. ,uptc-. . reet- t 5 . :,.. . _ .•,... „, i ! ,;1 L .,t , - , ,-- - • .. • brircl'l,fll l oßo- stoked; thiti when he first heard of the! ‘2, 2o ,,duet 6 f,liid,:tk`lt yetuth Ittlittltd *'he•nia(le Enquiry , into tti,et• nee . and ine= l:6l6 aoDrAr ifleltti--10•Shop of PLAThaai ) . , ; lie re..., ' pried it its-altetitiatioii•iit ttie enlitecif. , & Ife , agreed mitt* the • rt "aitte' Earl 4, M4Stierticiryoilfaitli:n tka Ni:aiit . . , to d . Fre . ..thliukr have been greatly pleased, if the Right Plev - I)4.elate hid:pib . norirrced . on ieloy,e.ven the slighteat•repi_onation t . : 'l:ijP, Arslihishop ()ILA NT,ERO/.4 . 1.Y said that, he felt it his el, CntiVirliFi.vlifier rcliiCe' hi 'PoTtOCis . tn 'di F 'oil fill t• in . tli4 ienfreatiettiff lifrgyMan *ll tided, toilittrieseditirn p?ope 1 y ‘ a. iriegiilaili , .4...reiliai)-4:fiebotie,d- it 414 sittsiftite* stale; 'II 4, • ' . tfottUlhitet liOf ;&.eor nt.T4i?i . .-#l4flearl/=list Orisit itS•errPrP arm ted a.. petitlo. fi-h4l 'Fatwood,. id Stirtiey . , :ligaitiat; the;Cfetbh-ti ' • IC Claftint;; , '1"• - • - -.; '•:-.• - t - • -- - -- ~ --: i• , '• . 1 1-., . , „pglicona ag_44nst Jti . Cacholic plaitilo, ) werelikelEiye pii - , 3 ei 1 Ly: ki , ' ffi . e . Loan CH A kai.i.o.n. • frcim ertittfpifit lir ; : • .- 6aiWe; 4. (ll44l.4:"Abd l til , Oi i 4otn . tigiiihi fat= Weft , * i-stitlitk:t 4 - - • ' /V•1 041 ' ,4 . , M 4 : 1 1 , 4 1 44. :bli LiDid ano Iput, LEN, raw , fils PPM ' 1 Highness the Mike of Ypßic, from 12,00 inhabitants of Loh. -- don -ind'irttttriiihster, 'add another frorrf Cafelfft Wel/Y . 14i.. 2 shop of LlscoLx, from a town in Hertfordshire, and front the' Dignitaries, of Lincoln Cathedral ; by the Bishop of LONDON, from Hornsey; by the Duke of RUTLAND, from a town in the County of Rutland; by the Bishop of CHESTER, from a town in Cheshire, from Warrington, and from the Dissenters of Tri nity Hall Chapel, Aldersgate-street; by Lord KENYON, from two places in Denbightihire ; try the Mike of NEWCASTLE, from a place we did not hear; by the Earl of RoDEx, from Lambeth-street Chipel.,,' Westminster ; from . St. George's; Hackney; from the Dissenters of tYtion.street Chapel, Sur rey ; from the Dissenters of Crown-street Chapel (Middle sex) ; from a Baptist Congregation in. Middlesex ;. andiron) the Baptists of Shduldham-street Chapel ; by the Bishop of ST. DAVID'S, from T. W. Dixon, a Curate in the Dio cese of Rillala ; by the Bishop of GLoUCEST ER, from a place we could not hear ; and nine petitions from difFerent.places by the Earl of SHAY TESBURY ; by the LORD CHANCELLOR, fiom Dtinstabte. - • • 'Lord CA LTHORPE . presented a petition from a nume.! rous body of Inhabitants of Birmingham,•in favour of the Ca tholic ClaiMs. The No . ble Lord• read a letter, which stated, that efforts had been made by a Clergyman in Birmingham, in anent the principal chapels, to: procure signatures to an Anti-Catholie• Petition. Such improper interference ought to be reprobated, lle believed that the greater part of the edu cated population of the empire was Is favour of the CatholiC Claim. • . ' Petitions in favour of the Catholic Claims were presented by Lord Ktxc from the Unitarian Dissenters of Tavistock ; from the Unitarian Dissenters of Collumpton • (Devonshire), and from Stroud (Gloucestershire), by the Marquis of Dowet sulat, frost, the Bankers and Merchants of Belfast ; from the Presbyterians of Bangor (County DOWn), and. from two re spectable and opulent Manufacturers. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY presented a petition from Darlington (Durham), and said—" This is a petition againet the Catholic Claims, anti I could wish that it had been placed •in t • he hands of the Noble Lord on the Woolsack, who is connected with the county of Durham, and whose senti. menti concur with those Of the Petitioners. As I . am now ad. dreseing . youteLardshipS, I-will take the opportunity of expres sing my opinions on this great question, as briefly as I can.— When I consider how often, and how ably the iinportant topic of the Catholic Claims have been discusSed; and when 1 consider the many eloquent speeches which will be delivered upon it in theicesurse of this night's debate, I• fear it will be regarded as presumption in me, whom am unused to public speaking, to ad dress youttordshiks' it all: But; tie I feel Very strongly upon the stiblect, •give'utterance eke those feelings now rather than interrupt the coming dismission. • My reasons are these; Under the dispensation or ProvidenCe, I have very unfortu nately, formyselr, arid unfortunately too for my country, come intec rile .pOseeseion of large 'estates in . Ireland, and I have therefer9 r enspicial interest in the, tranquillity of that country. Irtit":there' is' another; ney'respect :for 'a departed relative, un der Alliose 'careand in whose principles 1' was bred., That mix tiveol ventfire to. sayoraione of-.the most aflicient and honest Statesmen that this coanteiever,possessed.—(fiehr I)—As a 'subject lAO not- overpraise hint, tenet as a • btother I cannot say too much. I knew: hia 'sentiments thomughly,i and if he was in one thing more sincere, than in another ;—if there was one subject which more thanemether pressed on his mind, it was to see the Catholic gfiestion i: raiily and fully understood., -lithely regretted that the external Land internal difficulties of the couptry did not enable him.l.o tike such an. active part in promoting the . measure as lie WiShed, and that he cOuld not at once accomplish his desires. 'Tv'er *since the Legislative Union . ~of the two countries ander that great man, illre Pittemy lament elerelatiee thought thatehe measure was not complete—(Hear, lieal:!)—unleSs Catholic Emancipation was carried . —(Cheers.) •If there war nrePledge to that effect, there was; at leaet, some thing veryilike it.-e( Hear !)—.11411: his ,life been spared to the ,country, lieseould have called upon his Majesty's Ministers to jedeem that pledge. TheSe were his 'sentimente, and I hope 'God may send hie , spirit to animate the Cabinet of his'Majesty, :and induce then 'to carry a measure so necessary to the trap-' quillity and 4 peace of Ireland. I, hope that, ypur Lordships will' foegi'Ve s titik trespass on yonr time, but ci rcumstanced as 1 ani,• r andltelingifis•l do, I could. dot refrain front expreising myself .404 do*, though, I fear, most irnperfecely.l-'--( Heat !) DACBE presented a petition in favour of the Catholic' rdlintal;'irintffb e y 200 r Serj CRII t 3 at Law, and Barristers ; Lord Dudley atideWard presented a petition ..from the 'Protestant epiesenters of Dudley, ; the Bishopor Norwich from the Pres 15Yierian Clergymen London, connected W3th the Church of 'Scoaalitk•*; .Lord three:petitions 'froen the. Unitarians in. Marquii.of Bute, from !(iardiff; Ills Regal Highness the Duke.of ,Susseec e trom the Archdeacon and Clergy of the Arehdeeteoni t y )o , of Seativiy': 4111e-•Munlitis °GRANS WN :presented a petition from the ''members of the Senates of Oxford and Cambridge its favourof the Catholic Claims. The petition was signed by two Iteads of Houses, by the Professors of Gr e ek, -,Arabic, Geology, Astro, nomy, Anatomy, and nearly 'all that made the reputation of the UniversitelofiCambridge. The number cif signatures froni Ox ford,waslipt 49 greet, because there had not . . been time enough to send the petition down there. • ThiMktquiTof LA N D OiVN presented another similar pe tition.from teerof7the Protestant Nobility, andta large. number pf Proteetiatet,Gentry . not siteiregin Perl4eent. . Alec; peti tion Tin ro'the . Banker; d Traelershf verpopt 7,000 n ames *were 4 SiOitkr tit' It, • represetifingi nOt lese' than site millions :of PiTteY e ee • • —- • ' - ',Chi; Duke of DI;VONSIIIRE presented petitions, in favour of the; Citili l otic'Chiims From' the county 'of Waterford and the town ;Of fkindan%_These 'petitions - were Ins m eronsly sign ed, and I e4pre3sed the ,sentiments. of f the,:Proteszants of Ireland. The town of Bandon Was one of the most prosperous towns in the oftttt of IrelkOd, and reinarkatre 'for is attachment to the Protestant religion..- tante .foiwarti • now , t6':entreat their ilioydships to pass the bill ; fort the Catholics. Every day furnished fresh e proOl s of the anxiety of the'rtotestanta of Irelatid'to see' tibelished: the odious distidctioiis irhielt 'existed, ' i,and r‘ee, repose given to.that unhappy tountry-,hy timely .i:gncession. Indeed, ;Ile' Whole- population- of -:lreland • im plored theri LoicishiPS to pass the Bin. Tr there . ;vete any dan get. ivottiti.that'datiker-fitll-?---diot on the 'Protestants of lingiand orlreland, because:tbey were both equally anxious • ,to .see the measure carried. • They asse(ted that., the sa:ety 'and - security orthe 'Country dePended - orl it: - The" Catholic .qtiestinti had , be4n agitated foimoit thantwentyAve-years, and had been suppotted4 "nearly all the ablest and most enlighten-', ed Statesmen in England anti Ireland. It Was daily gaining 'friends itU'L Making converts... The CatholieS were daily ad- Vancingfin• intelligience and ivealth:. The question ought not to be left to sleep, ..T.hp, present moment was most Important. It. was a time of iyace.. The other Beirge . ofrarliainenf bad pro - nOtanced' a favour:Mile . opinitint 'lf the 'present: moment 'were neglected,- who' could say , that: cob cession. :hereafter would not ,enme_ too late- ? ,Divisions and,disturbances would again arise, and the' old horiori would .be renevied. . But if the question were loSt'this night, it must 'oneddy - be , carried. Did any one believe that,the just clainis of the• Catholics .could be. forever withheld? No rational man could think so., Why then- hazard by a pr'esent .refusal so niany adVantageS f when after 'that re fusal must be in vain ? Let the two people be immediately' and firmly united- by equal laws. Ile was -rejoiced to see the question in such able hands. They had his entire concurrence. IN trusted that their Lordships would by their decision do cre- . die to , thernselves and, ktatiee to. Ireland ; Abet they would 'wipe ,oil'the,stain,from British ,legislation, andabolisli f thosg hateful distinctions . which disgraced and weakened the ettpire,. and • COnsolidate the national stren byuniting the national hearts. . . : Earl, G:REY,-47,-;sented. petitions in favour of the Catholics, froth. the "Protestant . D'issen ' ters of the , Chapel: in lianoter !itinaie; Niticastle-updhl-Tyn4; froth thi ROthin Catholics of Liverpool and" , ,aeighbourlio,o4;, - from, those of the county, of Nanaghan, and those of Preston and Wigan, in Lancashire. Laid on the •" 'CATHOLICS. - haul GU I' then said, that he held apetition, signed by the. Duke of Norfolk, All the Catholic Peers of„ England,. all the Pid a tes, - tin d' lip frttid4 - iif :36;090 iiiilividlialS of that 'perituiiion, praying. for.: the repeal; of /those ' dishitiallficationS under. which they, lay, not for any., fpul t. corn milted by, thcm; but becAuse alai' Cntertaincd a religious belief iribieli they .could .not cariseien titibily 'ither. -UM PeEition eras l.iiilteri with prepir respect,' hat with • tite - firmness and tone of Min deeply Sensible of the ,injuries which : cliey suffered; and _of .their own worthiness: to er+Joy a share in the libertiei of the country. Thy Submitted ' that. when those disabilities.continif&t , •they could never cease • to'..coinplaino They .appppleiiitgi, : tlittle .conduct as etitlence of their loyalty, and of their being 'distinguished by . as active-a. Teal it'Ay of - their • felhoiv sUbject§ Wlie'n their eX.ertfQng in the public' , iterileci were ntit' impeded+ by the. impolici of • the 4 4*5,..: , They. repelled with .i n dignation Clap charge -that there was 'something in their, religion, i n consistent with- the 'princi oe§'e..fre'e Gdirerr.riferii - ; • ind'shewcd• that - the Best dons ti tn.- . tlottalfkh a ranta es!o f the! • cot:hi:try :bad :been established by their ancoa4oths,'profeAihig l aie•same• religion as rtheneselv They also derhonstrated, by the example of Switzerland that ratho ' He aild• Pietestant• ear/this tottird - together' iii die same union, mild ha: th 11 +pcmiession 'cif Constitutional . •freedonlilived in ,iattr- ,ft•et harmony. They sl4ewerl thee in fran i e e. a Catholic, King had plkced his r'rofestan't and' CalfrOrid-gtibjects on the same fout- Ititg'f'thavirtLitio liiirc,+ilerri'.Of €thV Netherlands • lioth'injeied . a pisrfect equality, of civil liglits wider.; dinspecial guarantee of ,tie .Briti*lt } GouernrneritH that in ,Hanover his ,illajesty had ~' praeed Pr - 6fessoP ''of 'Alf rcligitinft 'on the Sam e level ; that in - eantida, , dicit€Rll 411e/fish derendenCy; Catholicity twal•the re =union of the fitskt i *nd giao in the' United '844"1-iniitead of ~,4ppetling the progress of mtblic :prosperi t y and po Wer, .the- ge are! fYee'doire 'of -reigion , it;dliichiwo iniw safely - alloyed, 'wps IN clitort tietheithdlanck:rf;Thiipttrdircandrerepalted ihaim, pWatioli catt upon diem Ipy 14 ,4iciiy.i4ual; Willyr--!ids,o4 3 a 01- thplic, himself, and' fill deserted their (aid), , that they held,a rfifieira"illekiftftel u• fit eQ (.14riiiii, :that , Atterliere - ready io defend the just right of' the Crown against any POtentate or Prelate. Under those. irettinstances, they came with undimi nished hopes that the wisdom of the House would relieve them from the operation of laws which were an injustice to them, and a disgrace to England. Ile (Earl Grey) wished that their hopes of success could be as strong as his conviction of the justice of their claims. They came recommended by the tes timony of the Noble Earl opposite (Liverpool) who had repeat edly declared that they were not only most peaceable, but most meritorious:subjects, and had particularly distinguished their zeal and loyalty when the country was in danger. They came recommended by. the petitions of a great number of their . Protestant brethren, chiefly from that part of the country where danger was best appreciated. Again did they come recommended by the vote of the House of Commons, which had sent for the second time to their Lordships a Bill for the Relief of the Catholics. There had been much dis mission as to the state of the public feeling - on dila great question. ,He would not take upon himself to decide ; but from all that he had seen and heard, from the circumstance that not one County, Meeting had been held, that hardly one petition had been presented from great towns, without counter-petitioni "being iiiimediately 'tent up,.and 'consider ing that all this occurred at the. eve of an approaching elec tion, he was convinced._ that it there had been a strong popu lar feeling against the present measure, no such Bill as that be fore their Lordships would have been brought:up from . the other House. He. concluded, therefore, that if the public opinion had not been decidedly favourable to the measure,. it had been hitherto so far from hostile, that if there had been an -united, instead of a divided Government; all difficulties would have vanished, this pledge of benevolence and favour would have been accomplished, and to agitation and alarm would have suc ceeded brotherly love and affection, such as ought to prevail in a community worshipping God under different farms, but upon the same principles. The Right Reverand Prelates who had been active in presenting petitions against themeasnre, if not in obtaining them, had disclaimed any interference. He was bound to believe them ; but had not their opinions and wishes, by being generally known, had the effect of exciting the zeal of others to try to recommend themselves by pmcuring Peti tions. It was certain, that active means had been used to obtain thero, though those means had not yet been completely successful. They might succeed at last, however, and revive those religious animosities which were now slumbering. It had been said that the question had become one of time, and that concessions must probably be granted at no very distant period. Was it possible that persons who thought this should take upon themselves the heavy responsibility of fixing that time ? The Noble Duke who had distinguished himself by the just and liberal sentiments which he had expressed, had said that the present was a favourable opportunity. It ought there fore to be taken. If we waited a little longer, it might be offered in vain. In peace and prosperity concessions might be safely made, which in times of distress and when passions were exasperated, would be vainly proffered. Such had been the case with America. God grant that a greater infatuation might not produce a greater separation. His only apology for saying so much was that he, should not consider himself called upon to take any part in the ensiling debate. All that he could say, he had already repeated for the last twenty years and his convic tion was now stronger than ever, that to keep the country in a state of security and of power it was necessary those disabilities which were the cause of its weakness and aitation, and which might be followed by irretrievable evils. The petitioners did not pray for any other measure than that before their Lordships; but it ought not tti be forgotten that the case of the English Catholics was very different from that of the Catholics of Ire land, as the former were liable to many disabilities from which the latter had long since been relieved. He therefore trusted that the house would reconsider its decision of last year, and remove the most striking anomaly which existed in our laws, by placing the English Catholics on the same footing as those of Ireland.—The petition was then read and laid on the table. pe. CATHOLIC RELIEF BILL. The Order of the Day having,been read, The Earl of DONOUGHMORE moved the second reading 'of the Catholic Relief In doing so he should not long - occupytheir *Lordships' attentkneefter the numerous petitions which had been presented, and the prolonged debate, which had already taken place. The Noble Earl then was understood to say, that he disapproved of the abolition of the Elective -Franchise, and that if .any electors were disfranchised, there would he an end to every thing like,freedom in the English Constitution. Ile should poetpone further observations till a latet period of the discussion: Lord COLCHESTER contended, that the inquiry instituted by both Houses on the subjece.of Ireland, although satisfactoyy in some points, had not removed ,the Parliamentary objectioes to the measure ; which it was evident, from the number of pe -titions on their Lordships' table, was at present 'adverse' to the general sense of the country. He maintained that the utmost readiness had always been displayed to grant to the Catholics a full participation in all the enjoyments and advantages of the Constitution, with the exception of those which led to po litical power. Whatever could be dope to satisfy them within those limits ought' to bedone. They hid the free exercise of 'their religion, but if they wished for additional protection for it, Parliament should be ready tugrant it.. They. enjoyed all the rights and advantages of property ; but if they required. minor regtdations to- make that property more secure, those regellae Lions should be made. As to the Army and the Navy they long since been thrown open to them. Beyond this it would not be prudent to go. But the present Bill granted every thing leading to pOlitical power, with no-other exceptions than the Chancellorship of England and the Lord. Lieutenancy. of' .Ireland, without giving the smallest security in return. The Noble Lord then examined ;tune of. the publications of Dr. Doyle,- and pointed out their general hostility to the Church of England. He qUoted the oath taken by Catholic Priests and Prelates, to shew that they bound themselves to disclose the Pope's' counsel to no man. He argued from the . sentithent4 of the most enlightened modern authorities of the CatholleChureli even of Bessuet himself, that its spirit of exclusion and domi nation was not changed. He objected to establishing a perpe tually endowed Catholic Church in this kingdom, and to the mode of election and appointment of the Bishops.- The- Ca- tholics denied to the King of England the, privileges which every Catholic Monarch in E urope possesse d, and which they', themielves had no hesitation of confiding to him as King'of Hanover ! Tlie . Noble Lord then was understood to allude to I the formation of establishments in.various parts of the country by a society which had been banished tiom 'the dominions of most Catholic Princes, and which was galninglarge possessions without law, if not against thelaw. In other countries the - des; potism of the throne counteracted the efforts of such a society; but here the equality of right which prevailed left it free to act. As to securities," the best was to prevent participation its politi cal' power, and the surest way of emancipating Ireland, would be to remove, the extreme subdivision and underletting of land in that country. The Noble Lord, 'after calling upoh the House not to discontent a large proportion - of Protestants by passing tile present measure, concluded by moving that the Bill be read this day sik months. The Marquis of ANGLESEA had hoped that every conces sion made to the . Catholics would have excited in them a cor responding feeling of conciliation towards their Protestant bre- thren. He hoped they would have shewn a patient and a meek spirit; but owned . that he had beendisappointed. Every con cession had.only produced greater demands and a higher tone, and judOng from the language of the late Association, Eman cipation was not meant as a mere release from disabilities, but as a means• to obtain the ascendancy in thecountry. Here he would take ,his stand: If there must be a trial of strength, he would wish to fight it in the best position which he could find; and none.was so good as that in which the country now stood. Yet he was a Sincere friend to the Catholics, and would wish to place them on a footing with their fellow-subjects, but it must not be at the expence of Protestants . . - Without proper guarantees he could not consent to grant Emancipation, and the - present Bill did not appear to him to offer such guarantees. If he understood it rightly he did not object to the principle, neither should he object to the regulation of the Elective Fran chise, nor to a provision for the Catholic Clergy. ' Were a Pro testant King and Government, however, to pay for the Ca- . tholic Clergy without having any sight to interfere in the ap. pointment of Bishopi ? • The Sacrifice should not be all on one side, and coecessiona should be mutual. Unused to address their Lordships, lie had only wished to explain the grounds on which he should give his vote, and his conviction of the neces sity which now existed to support the Protestant Establish ment and the Constitution of the country. The Marquis CAMDEN entered into a detailed history of, his former views and feellings with respect-to Catholic Em- - a - ncipation, 'in 'order to show' that althoughhe had . opposed it when he had . considered the . period untimely for - pestling it, yet lie had never been hostile to the principle. He re-' - collected with satisfaction that he was the person who had established the Cottage orMayboOth.'The Noble Marquis then read several lettere,, sorne.written to him in 1795, and one by him t-i" Mr. Ole, dated Junel; 1797. In the latter he was under stood t 6 sley (for. very littl e of what. fell from the Noble Marquis. *as andiabl e b e l ow the Bar on account of his position an d t he . crowd of strangers.) that the Protestant Dissenters in Irelandivere at that thelics diseont ente d , I a nd t h at under ' those circumstances no', period imbued with Republican principles and the ca concesions.ought to be made as long as things fait - Mined' SO.- . In other conimunicatione afterwards he had had, -in his capacity of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, to give his testimony - to the spirit of loyalty di sp l ayed by all classes of Roma Cathedies, when Ireland was threatened with French invasion. It was impossi ble that it should have been greater.- He was one of those who had tho ug h t i t theirdu y't lira, to retire.. There had bean an intention tindOubtedri; sat the time of the Union, teeplace the 'Catholics on a footing 'of equality with the Priatestants but-un ,fortituatelei;thegreae Minister. who had conceived that pldn found itemPOeiibleto carry.,ll Veto effect, and consequently tee deied hi s reaigriation:' Weteonrdegree Of expectatiori battle* excited amongst the Catholics at the time ; was it wonderful therefore that there should have been ebullitions of feeling in a country where such disappointment had been experienced.— The Noble Marquis then examined the late declarations of the Catholics, since the Association had been put down : their re nunciation of the temporal power of the Pope, and the hopes which they had been entitled to conceive, from the manner in which the Commons had taken up their cause. He was as sin cere a friend to the Established Church as any man could be, and if he saw any desire to injure it; he.should be the.first to step forward in its defence. But he saw no proof of such a de sire, and from the affection which he felt for Ireland, although he had kiiOwriber in 'ciiiiVietilienaiid tempest, he hoped that the measure would be carried, and thought that there was no better time for passing it than the present. 'Earl DARNLEY agreed with his Noble Friend that this was the time for passing the measure, and there were many reasons why - it should not be delayed. - He regretted .that his. Noble and gallant Friend (the Marquis of Anglesey) should have titiffered the intemperance of langtiage of the'Catholic Association M'alter his sentiments on this great question. Of all men his Noble and (iallant'Friend ought to be the one least impressed with an apprehenSion of danget' He might alio find that the po sition which he had taken was a n un t ena ble -one, ot nwiths ending all Ids, military gallantry: - C - dfi - etasleins • the Catholics had frequently been refused upon the same arguments .which had been used upon the present occa sion. In the summer of 1792, when the country was in an eM- , barrassed state, the Catholics were told that they could expect no concession' to he made to them. The • Protestants of Ire- land: told. them that their claims could not be granted ; yet in six months from that time a recommendation in their fa j your was made 'from the Throne. If ever these claims-were - granted it-nertainly should be in time of peace, and not post poned till period of danger- and calamity arrived. The in quiry into which a COmmittee of their Lordships had entered, he had frequently recommended to them ; and he thought they could see no cause to repent of their having at length followed his advice, He took a very different view. of the result of that inquiry from the Noble Lord who had alluded to it-that even ing. Catholic Emancipation,- he told them, was a:Mere pre tence to obtain something else.; but what evidence could he, find to back such an opinion ?- The effect of passing this mea sure would' be to brink into Parliament several very worthy and talented Gentlenien, - and wharthe'worse would they be for that? eellad.llr. O'Connell been brought up inthat pure re formed' religion 'in : which : their Lordships were reared, he should say that a man et' his learning and theolegical.. acquire ments would . not have disgraced the opposite Bench upon which the Riht Reverend Prelates of the 'Establised Church sat. 'But lie knew not wherefore 'it should be eidet that the call for Emancipation was a mere pretence. In' tlfe Minntei of Evidence before their Lordsh ip' Committee would „be found' the testimony of Mr. Blake, who told them that - he considered the Proteittuit Church of Ireland ,as the great litik 'Thief' chained England and Ireland together ;' that if he thought Catholic Emancipation would"disturb, the Protestant settlernent, he, would not- recommend their Lordships to - great it. He therefore . (Lord Darnley) gave a flat denial. to the assertion that it was Meant .to be used es'. a stepping-stone to something higher. - So long a§'property was in this:country the basis of representation, there 'remit be'be an`- inferiority of numbers on the bide of the Catholics. The natural weight and influence of property would .always. prevent their outnumbering the Protestants in Parliament: 'He was 'so convinced of this, that' if double the probable numbers were to be the consequence of the measure, he •should still support it • A • Noble Lord' had adverted to the 'Coronetiort Oath' as a bar to the passing of this measure: NOw •he crust confess he was surprised that that Noble Lord, or Any one shou ld have been entertained the idea' for one moment, thett-eileteiCaieis nation Oath - obstructed the granting of civil power to-the -Catho lics, or to any portion of his Majesty's subjects. Tina Corone tiOn Oath, if he rightly understood it, was- directed solely ; :to the maintenanceof the Protestant Establishment, and lie did not see how that could interfere with tho removal of civil disa bilities. With respect to the number of petitions:, which ,liad been presented, England had .not been very forward inehese. .Neither was he at all satisfied that they represented the feelings 'of the party from wI ':h they came. Petitions of an opposite nature had leen presented in almost every Case. One tharday they had had from London and Westminster: Besides e he be- • 1 lieved,' that if a petition were proposed for so extravagant *par pose as praying for the remota of the Noble and Learned Lord (the Lord Chancellor) from his . Mejesty.'-s Councils, it would find signatures. . A .different spirit,. he knew was rising fast in, Ireland—a spirit friendly to the Catholic Claims, The.Pna teetants of that country were hilly persuaded, that with respect to this question things could not remain there in. their present state. Either this Bill must. be pissed or a new Penal Law. If they passed the Bill. -Ireland would become - a-tower , of strength to the Empire—a tower raised upon the affections of the people. 14 on thecontrary, they kept up this perpetual blister upon- that country, a new-.army would be necessary. A' triple garrison Would be requisite if they postponed{ the remedy till a period of difficulty- and danger arrived. They should take advantage of the present time of peace-411e op - portunity might not come again. It should not be forgotten that the measure came for the second time recommended: to them by the Representatives of the people of this country ; and im plored their Lordships to Rise no time in according to their wishes, in this respect. , :j The Earl•of LONGPORD.said, that in giving his. decided, opposition to the measure he:begged to disclaim hostility to the' Catholics. He had.no objeCtion to givitigehem.civil rights, bud he could not consent to entrustiegeCtitholics with .politicel power in a free Protestant country.—(Hear, hear rea-; sons were not founded on the religion's tenets of the sect, .he{ did.not 'Wish to. touch their speculative opinions, , and lie : yeas+ determined they should not touch' his ; bus he abjured the tical . consequences inseparable from the possession of power, -by that religion. Ihow:was it possible for them, to drew the! line of demarcation as to where the spiritual—where the poll-, tical influence began ? If not, the only way was to oppose. con cessions to the Catholics generally. The Catholic- Priesthood were always jealously and eagerly employed in-quest of politi- Cal power, and the power they exercised over the,people was unlimited. • With all. this influence the -Catholics :refused to' submit to that controul which our own establishment !yielded ; and what view were:they to take, of this _refusal,-iwben' they, coupled.withit the fact that.they admitted; of sitth . controul elsewhere?--.(Bear, hear!)—He objected *to the .preamb.le, of this Bill. It told the - truth—but not :the whole aruth.. it said that the Bill was for the removal of certain .disabilitiese it should have been added" and for the investment. of certain. Dignitaries of the Roman Catholic Church_with power, capaci ties, privileges, and immunities."—( Hear, bear 1)--lie knew that there were amongst the Catholic Laity many distinguished ex.'. captions to the subjection in which'smne were held. by the Cft tholic Priests. But they were not there to pronounce eulogiums . or compliments, but legislate for all parties as far as that could be done. None should be excluded from power, excepting those in whose possession of power there would, be dan ger. No other Dissenters from the. Established Religion' were of the same character as the Catholics in this respect.-i—i They regarded the Protestants as rebels- to their- faltii,and despoilers of their property. Other. :Diameters. were voluntary seceders from our faith, but this was not the case with. the Ca tholics. They had heard much of the justrights of the Catho, lies; but he denied that they _had any title upon that ground,, for justice could never requireahat they .should concede the interests .of the many- to the few. There had been a kind of threat used Upon the score of necessity e which, &intended as a threat, 'would, ha was sure, array: a great many against the cause.--( Hear !)—The country, under her existing inssitn. Lions, had advanced.to a state of prosperity and glory which had never been equalled ;. and the Irish were participating in: that prosperity: Udder 'these tircurnitamlces, , il4 ought to have adequate proof of the advantages of this innovation, be. ing somewhat commensurate with the risk which it was proposed: they :should intur.•* It- was said they ought to sup: port thisßill because it came from the other house. There. were 'many eases: in which that would bet great, reeernmenda don ; butthey Were now, he thought, called upon tO l 'exereble one of the most useful privileges of that : Hoose, in arresting a pernicioUs measure in its passage through the Legislature. The Bill was not the work of that Htenst - , - iitit 'of 'a triiiing;*.hesi tating majority, not tariounting to one-teventieth. of - their letum.. berm. Ought they then to pass a Bill which would .be irrevo cable, pot heated by fhe'sense of 'the - country; anilliiireVly the sensetelthe -House of 'Commons? 'rliere'Would soon be Ceestitutional made of taking the senses of time country upon this measure ; and he doubted not their tordshipti would thin see that - they were justified in' rejecting it: The- Country would be_ roused_from their .supineness, and' .nkit allow.tht it dearest interests to slip through their fingers. Without a de. ailed Protestant' ascendancy in' this country, there 'gas - no security foe' Protestant interests. He was afttisfied that the right for the_ proposed change did no t ex i st, necess i ty did no t exact it, expediency did deiriand • it; conciliation would not follow, the public welfare would not be iatteased, nor would peace be promoted.—( Hear, hear !) -The Bishop of LANDiFF- spoke against the Bill, but in so low a tone as to be quite inaudibletelow the bar. The,Pie lles p of NOR wick{ called upon the House to pause etc they leered upon persevering in that ey.stem•of cruel.a'nt'i unprovoked insults and injuries . whicle year -after' year - they had so long contieued to visikppon five . millions of their.fell6,i -countrymen. Ifthekingdorn - were - mot ilitivour of this mea sure, where, hertsked,•were the'CotititylPetitione'llgeinetit If the Cimstitution could not supPortM without a violation of the principles of Christian feeling, Widelhired alteration.; He felt that the great dictate, " Love-thy neighbour as thyself," should never be forgotten. He- ought b-e told that the conse quence dr the admissiion Of theßortan Catholics to 'the irivw leges they required - weitild'he ihfurioua to the Iletablisited Church, his dri-Wei• was, atirldly ndreotlt eh'ad'no chartn 'for him, he had con tin tted the half *eta tote;.end -SOS top otti to change. The Bill, in his opinion, was an act of justice to a large portion of his Afajeity's subjects, and therefore .enti tied to his support. Lord CARI3ERY, in a very low tone of voice , _ opposed the Bill. If the R oman C at h o li cs were sincere they could not give the securities the Bill required. The Bishop of CHESTER rose to make a few observations upon the measure, which he considered to be of the greatest icc portance. In whatever point of view he looked at it, the im pression on his mind was that it was full of danger to the Church establishment. The Right Rev. Prelate felt some diffi dence in opposing himself to many of those persons whose viz-• tues he revered, and whose friendship he highly valued. In the course of his studies he had been induced to change his opi nion respecting the Catholic religion. He had always been the advocate of civil and religious liberty : . but when he became acquainted with the doctrines of tile Church of Rome, and refle - Cted'on the numberless evils inflicted_ - by. Popery on the Protestants, 'he was convinced .that the , ecclesiastical : thunder was still ready to strike when opportunity offered. It Might be said 'he came to the discussion of that night not an., impartial judge. He Chine, in the opinion of some Noble Lord interested, and that. his interest Tlity in oppoiingethe What right h a d an y one t o i mpute t o t h e Protestant BA*. tof En - glatil a base and sordid' intention ?; What ground visa there to justify, such an assertion ?, Had they ever e alteten :worthy motives in their public conduct? Was it interest which indnced the ;levet 'Bishops to oppoie the arbitrary proceedings ate Popish King, 'and prefer inrprisonment to a violation of: duty ? No ! It, was. honest ambition to defend the cause of - religion and • the public welfare. • The Right Rev.'Prelafe ea pressed a hope_thats the .same spirit would animate , the succes sors• of Abase great inen, and- ehat they might ,stand forward. ambitious to prove themselves sentinels and champions of the Established Chtirche If disposed to retort; he might Say some Noble-Lords supported the. measure from temperal causes at tached. ,to themselves, he he should pass over such ineinua dons' because they' sli d no good. They had heard great deal 64'. the: injustice of. , depriving six millions of, fellOw-strbjects.ef their rights. What were th ose i n di s p u t a bl e r ight s If they had any claim to the rights contended for, those who withlieht them -might be justified if they did it for the public good:— The question was, whether it was, wise to exclude teportion of: their fellow-subjects from' political power. He could see no political . injustice in 'withholding that 'pofVer. Civil 'rights in that • case ...were foreclosed by,. public expediency.. -.But the most extraordinary fact was, that the advocates . of the bill, who called so lOudly f or c i v il rights, had robbed 'the tiitholict • of one of the % . dearest.rightsi, namely' that.•of the•elective fran chise. The Catholics theensoleee also cot - vented eo.be,expelled from the o ffi ce of Lord' High Chan - Cellel% With' respect to -re ligioits'epinions, the 'ltoltiltri''CathOh'esihrere that - ground disqualified from holding high political, office& in. a ;Pstotestant Government. Anotherapiesticin was whether the danger which tr preSseupori them was such 'ai' ought to induce 'the' House to venture on great' tiolatton of!sconetitusionaheprintiples ? lie might also ask whether the proposed Bill would be the means of pacifying the Irish people;? The last of these questions - was most important. That unhappy • country was suffering under oda mityh Therextreirie distress of the-pettentlixf hind-the bad state of. society, was; the eause qf all Asia mieery r , ..The chief proprie e . tors left-the soil, and took , from it annually four millions of - mo.. ney. Tenantwas tenafiroiliich - ,elineezed froth the oc cupier °Effie soilmerethan the. value-of :the soil -; in short, the state of;so.ciely Ireland yee hot to be coeeal by th e on their fable: . ItWas to'be cured by equitable ariatigeriientS, a better system of Revenue Livwl;;;lind;•lasteotolk,a return of the natu. raleproprietorn_ef_lle soil. That was theXenapcip i ation Ire land wanted; it would rescue her sons from idleness, tr .- Tali - Th. duetrypr rerous, the;peOfele theit renice dies were applied, and thepeople ii - nprOved by education, they miff lincolne to . Parlinroept e and reskforsadmissiotreo the ;trivi a lees Vihiet at present:they were not gualifled folloSseis.''Some 'Years tinee the Herman Catholice began-to 'talk ;Of Lion, which at the present day washmtletkood' to inedieqiiithint less than the reethration;oro - Rdrinin•Clitholic Church, and the recatneiror ferfeiteel landS. The Right Rev. Prelate called rmemetheir - Lord - ships to - reflect what would he- the-dis-appointa ment of the Rieman Cathelk9ponnletieus, ;when they r found the measure (if it should be carried) would not produc e she oh jectAtiayl canceled tiracquiie.l •hTli6y! would .fliid they? owed • all. their:disappointment to:a fay 'Agitators, who, had -east this leaveninto the mass of Irish misery to prsalune Mere fertnen tation,sand:..rise, upon the :surface-. of conflicting...e'en:tents.— Those who took upon them to-direct-the Irish peasantry had concealed from. - them knowledge • which-w 041 haver pee vetete ct misrepresentation. The object el, .tioaie narties - wes..o.-hst*ish theshßoman Catholic Church on: the,rnins ofi•Protestaatipty,....,.- frh,Catitolic..weula oevetrea.till.ite.nad got .possession of t i ,e Protestant religion. His hope was that the object might., of be .gaineel,...hut thetethe leishepopulationeavould he ened, and see their real intf e rcat i did not lead to disputes with their Protestant brethren:; 3-fe, was assures\ this suynhaad Any ; dyne would not' prove - airetnetiyi • -It would; dot- curb_ tuns p er _ turbethfeelings in Ireland.- nth' horilahipe could.rot phssahe BilL Actives not made to produce a remedy iesometising more was wanting than the - Bill , expressed. They.llll :knew what dangerous tiotionn Wereabread „about Church property. They all knew what the Irish House of Coutmons. did.on that subject, and he might ask what mi ht not be done with thirty or forty lrotnatirailfairll em ems o Ihtripact body, ; like Ant ..."Thiertentoue cornet,: ,whose ; horrid .glare hroughePekilence and Oati! s " . dad they nd grdtind 'to 'fear for the Church .property ?-4 . a0 One eould say it, would nisi- b e in danger. If their - Lordshipis' aei-e' desirous pf lu:towing the sentiments which' 'animated' the •CathOlic - 'pOptelition, they should attend to their ntdetiugs; sind - hear their lea .s execrate the ProteStratthuieli: 'They cotaidered it 'an hiChbus. One 5 a theiretrators had used• the foll Owing words-." She /Mid!. and nothing but the ritentit)re(df lilleYniahief she has committed will survive. ‘Vhen:the day of hendisolution shall be at hand, will venture to Aupp94 ber : 27 • The R.,ight Reverent Pr e lat e citeci other olessyasions applied to th e titab hailed Church, showing „the e hatred, enterfaine.d., : ln, Gaillelice • and adverted to a petition,.freinetil*enoCll t t e pee?;ereted: ; on the last day of Al a y, 1824: The Roman Catholics, ira a tliat Peti tion, expresse d a desire to aboli s h a ll tith es . Th e writ ings of - 3 - : - KhLh, -- naid - to be - the - Doyle - , were also cited and compared with.the i evielence of that switng s s er What! was, AO be, said of a nian t!YlT'ocast flrebrandl inthfhe Prinestant Church, •dritl, when he caine betbre their laOrilSitiPlas-a Witness sOftened dotra all 'he bad s a id. He passed frortil!kr: Doyle to the PoP'e"s'snpre intiey. The Pope had' the' appointment to all the "leffilibieriais 'in Ireland; and theßislibM'so appOinted itlihihistered' to 2,•50U 'Pr'i'ests. • It Welt' be stiff nominees Might ernaitithin allegiance to iheir,Savereigh, bufthey M ight' also be relealid - - from that allegiance to the Mosier-eh by a ßull,' . ne Pcifie'Phis 'released all the"Freneki 'front their alregititice 'to the Ruler. In 1633, Charles the Pint deposed by the -Pope. - In 1759 i P - Ope B'onifice'deposed George the Seiiitid by Irish ' Bull.- This might be: called 'an an ti-di , play; but ii'prisied that the power of the Pope to depose Kings was still in existence, although Dr. Doyle said it Waiblisolete.' Inl/309ilie" P6oe eclered he had power to depoie'halefical Princeii;thOngli Tie did 'net use it. Thoie tenets -, of t ': the Church' •of trig `titialitiectltotnan'Catfinliei froM" holding any office lh a . teetant Government. , The vielation of an oath was 'r , fi llowea, the Roman CathEilic ten ts . TheY were' told that an unjust Oath Wee not In beicept., The Rig-14)2.0a Prelate Coneludd by saying ' he he lied great dependence efie the :Protestant Clergy, who had en lien secured the Establiehed'Clefirclia So lcinges they dinheif ditty they mightdefy danger, tint he .itia not consent ; 9 give up a single security. e' Hie hOPciiie; thirt - fFeir • iJoidalli'Prwoliq hiit pass' the 11111.L:(Heir, hea r The Earl of LIMERICK defended the Landholtlet, Ireland from theeharge- made by the Right Reth Prelitler The Bishop. of CHESTR 'explained. • Nothing could be fuither friiin his 'intention 'than &cast any imputation on the landed proprietors oflreland. . The . Alarquis of.LANOOMrtNeepse to address the TfieTarl of HARROny propose d, to adjourn 'aut.:Ant prop:gide:l, was overruled. • 'Tire Marquis_ of LANSDpWN then 'l , ent on. After the of tire Right Rev: Prelate be tboo, g bt his duty to state the ground on , wide?) . he sh ould give his support to the , tneastire. The Right "Reverend 'Reyereno Prelate had spoken of expedieney. Was it expedient to . exClUde six milli's:sll'i of people frOln the rights of the - Constiitition. Certytly''ho expediency could juetifY their exclusion'; it was an act Of justice to' admit diet*.' The:Right It evgrvid Prelate find licinthkenhhe view ; 'of a Star an ; to e Right Rev. Prelate - hitt:l'nm - exeiAined'ihe causes' ionniSery in Ire:Jand a Ju n o hen -said fromaSir -John_Sinete les look e -that absentees were, n injury to ,Irel s ensl e .One,ortwo small feaau res in the distress bf had been ithtiied; but tl*grerit intorhaly of irislapoptilation stippenting nClittreh hot their o w n bad been overlooked. The Right-Revs Prelate could-not he Ye read the evidence taken before the :Committee on the State of ;Ire land,.because not only the Catholic but Protestant , witnesses had stated th a t the forfeited estates were . more valuable than any other - estates. There was scarcely a Catholic; possessing -property who did not hold forfeited laud; It:had been said, the Lords who had property in Ireland, were induced to vote for the Bill, aritt-at the same time, the , Right , Rev. 'Prelate .contendid, -that the. Bill, if carried into a law, would deprive them or*. perty: How was the contradiction to be remedied ? • Nothing could- - be -more unfair than the mode of argument adopted by tho Right Reverend Prelate of taking up the opinions of anindividual'and treating.them as those of • the whole Ca tholic body. How would their Lordships like to haYe some nnehor the protests-entered on their -journals referred to as the; Collective opinion of the- House of Lords ? He priateeted against the doctrine-altogether. ''This question was not tine of theology, but of allegiance. -It was whether the'aliegianteof the Catholieti :was' such is to call on Parliament to Make one -third of Majesty's' subject; ;incapable or exercising the duty' of subjects; Or ether khoritttoifid , be admi tted k to an • equality of rights with the rest of th e i r count/ye - nen. • 'Pre saidtinee on - the table threw great light upon this part of the question. It