The Sun. — London, England, 1831-07-01 00:00:00

I' —The Grand -eland, tate of nhabi- ► move he Re -1 to the e Pro burgh in the •m Bill 'tended Cupar Perth ; voters, only ng the itioners Cupar inty of efficient have a lilt it burghs COll. , on bv- rovided ain en- popu led was Bill, to was it should Cupar burghs, nvo. dvocate Com- to enter receive he peti- f peti among radford, Member lis, Mr. ted ; he derg one t he had aged at ugh the, ted from I again. i millers ,merican ity Got- ould not iplaining tiered it n in the sale of e people. ramittals )U which ised that appealed such de• rted the been an- !forward •ue, that luced by recollect, r this na- !ncement the 'ilea ernment, was not o the old g rid of he Noble I eontroul —(Hear.) ment had gulations, disorders ie thought e sorry to tle Lord, regularity ; but he had truly t, in some ler of per :wing that ake large )ened that repelled to ) practices 1 . covering f the irre from his men much y material he be he labour ,eer• houses assembling wages at n of them se persons 3ill, in the and influ )ne of the kept open is the con keepers of ed to keep ed to shut a reminded Kira of his at manner ahlic-house these beer keep open that a sub n, all these they were , hear.) lad been to , who were e beer than uld not be they would rested per .r than that who bad attention of entially not the mrnaller country, it L 4 sure that ct to beer continued, cc of ,those coal of the la to reject brought in considered ie operation tirat op- would not ifford relief the poorer •used,. poli_ appreciate ie most ka )ected it to ertain evil had beta able to see the possibility of removing the re straints; which existed in the sale of beer by a gradual withdrawal of those restraints; lie should have pre• ferred adopting that course on bringing forward the Bill, the effect of which was now complained of. The inconveniences which hail arisen from the passing of the Bill into a law had certainly gone far be yond the extent which lie had anticipated, accord ing to the information which he was in possession of, furnished to him by the ablest and most impartial persons. It was oF the utmost importance, therefore, for his Majesty's Government to institute at least some very diligent enquiry into the operations of the Bill. He believed the inconveniences prevailed to the greatest extent, and, indeed, princip illy in the agricultural districts.—(No, no.) This was according to the information whieh he received. He understood Government had already made general inquiries on the subject, and if that were so, it would be better for the House to be put in possession of all the facts that had come to the knowledge of Government before Parliament proceettgl to legis late again on the business. Viewing it in every light he had heard nothing yet which made him entertain the most remote idea that it would be necessary to re turn to the state of the law in which it was before the passing of this Bill. Measures might be adopted for correcting the abuses, without depriving the poor of the advantages arising from the Bill. Lord STANLEY could not agree with the statement that the evils arising from the Bill prevailed principally in the agricultural districts. He believed the Secretary of State received from the county of Lancaster one universal reply to all his enquiries throughout that part of the kingdom, and which was that the effects of the Bill were most mis chievous. His Lordship hoped Government would be able to bring forward some measure for correcting those mischiefs. Mr. WARBURTON deprecated the idea of proceeding hastily to pass further measures on this subject. He believed there was one cluise in the Bill which required that those who took out a license to sell beer must have a place in which to consume it—thi s entitled them to have sol diers quartered upon them, and the idea of that prevented respectable shopkeepers selling the beer which otherwise they would do, and left it to persona of a very low class to engage in the sale of the beer. If this clause were re moved, more orderly persons would begin to sell it, sad more orderly conduct be the consequence. Mr. PAGET regretted to hear-that it was the intention of his Majesty's Government to interfere in bringing for ward any new measure for the purpose of increasing the authority of either magistrates or police with those who sold beer. In his opinion, all the inconvenience that had been complained of arose, not from the Bill going too far, but not going far enough. He should propose the removal of all restrictions whatever. Sir M. W. RIDLEY thought that the proposition of the Hon. Member who had just sat down, were it to be adopt e d, wou l d produce incalculable ev i ls. He (Sir Matthew) had opposed the Bill from the first; but on this occasion he certainly thought the wisest plan would he to give a little more time for exreriencing the operation of the Bill. Any proposition of amendment to the Bill might be well worthy of attention. An HON. Ind considered the Bill had effected this benefit, i t INd enabled the poor to obtain an article at a cheaper price than before, and also raised the price of barley, thereby doing a service to the op icultural interest. .Sir CHARLES BURRELL said, in his opinion, the Bill had done incalcul isle damage to the country. One great object in passing the Bill was an increase of revenue, but all increase of revenue that tended to the dt moraliza tion of the public must be an abomination in the sight of any Government. Mr. PORTMAN regarded it as inexpedient to attempt to amend the Bill, after only one year's trial. It ought, at any rate, to have another year's trial. He was, how ever, firmly persuaded that there was but one remedy fin• . all the evils that had now been alluded to, complained of by the poor on one hand, and the Clergy on the other—that remedy was the repeal of the malt tax. (Ghee's.) He hoped that in the course of next year his Majesty's present Government would introduce a measure for the purpose of repealing that obnoxious tax. Mr. SADLER, in bjnging up the petition, denied that he had ever been opposed to the remission of any tax which was in any way calculated to benefit the poor. What was the operation of the Bill ? He speke not on conjecture, but from certain knowledge. 'I he operation of the Bill was to make not merely the father of a f imily but the female sex, the wife and children, tipplers. He knew that every person who was at all conversant with the state of society would agree with him in that opinion. His proposition for the relief of the poor would be, and was, very different. He proposed to remit the tax on malt entirely. He had contemplated too, such a project that the lower and lowest classes should have the opportu nity of brewing their own drink, as free from tax as from adulteration. It was a question which involved the well-being, the morals, the happiness of the people of this country; and he would, impressed with that conviction, take leave, upon an early opportunity, to, press on the considelation of the House no new ideas or new opi nions of his own, hut those which he had previously advanced on the question ; and he would take the sense of the House on the remission of the tax, as it re garded the lower class, so as to put a stop most effectually to that vicious practise of tippling, which, under the present system, might be carried on in any num ber of houses, which, for a trifling consideration, chose to license themselves. • Mr. HUNT gave the Hon. Member (Mr. Sad ler) credit for his good intentions. He would ask him, however, how could the poor of the Metropolis, with their scanty means, furnish the necessary implements for brewing their own beer? The good intentions of the Hon. Member were like some of his other Utopian notions, and if his plans were carried into execution, instead of benefiting the poor, they would be driven back to the gin-shop, to drink t•:.at intoxicating blue-ruin, instead of good wholesome beer. Sir CHARLES BURRELL was sorry to prolong the discussion, but as truth was the only object in that Ilouse, I e would state a fact of which be had been assured by his own steward, that an old wo man of his acquaintanee—(A laugh)— had brewed excel lent beer from an old teakettle.—(Loud acd general laughter.) The petition was ordered to be printed. The LORD ADVOCATE then rose and said he would to-morrow move for leave to bring in a Bill to amend the state of the representation in Scotland.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. G. DAWSON presented a petition from Sir A. King for compensation for loss of his office. Lord ALTHORP said that as a very strong complaint by the Hon. 13 tronet had been submitted to him, he had sanctioned the bringing of his case before the House. SALARIES OF PUBLIC OFFICERS. Mr. Alderman WOOD rose for the purpose of bringing the subject of the salaries and emoluments of public officers before the House. He said that he expected to be supported in the proposition he intended to submit, not only by his Majesty's present Ministers, but by the late servants of the Crown—be would not call them ex• Min isters, as that word was not likely to be a favourite at the present moment.—(Laughter.) He hoped that Ministers would themselves assent to the appointment of a Com mittee to inquire, and he was sure that that was the best plan upon which they could proceed. In 1797, the while charge of the civil department for 75 offices was only 1,300,000/. ; and although it might possibly be urged, that the-duties since that date bad increased, yet he did not expect to hear it contended that they had increased in pro p irtion to the augmentation of salary. In 1815, the charge was 3,200,000/. ; but at this moment it was 2,900,000/., the present Ministers having made reductions to the extent of about 300,000/. He had not asked any body to second the motion with which he should conclude, and he hoped he should find a seconder in the First Lord of the Admiralty, who, for the sake of mere consistency, ought to support him. That Right Hon. Baronet, on the 12th February, 1830, bad proposed a similar resolution, which after referring to the 37th Geo. 111., and to the subsequent return to cash-payments, went on to declare, that it was " expedient to the relief of the present ex cessive load of taxation, that all augmentations consequent upon the Bank Restriction should be reduced, and every possible reduction adopted that could be made witho u t . a violation of existing engagements, and without detriment to the public service." That motion was, however, sub sequently withdrawn, and an am ndment by the Se cretary for the Treasury substituted, which amendment did not fall much short of the original proposition. The ob ject of this amendment was to let down the Ministers easily, as they could not resist the arguments in favour of some le dustions. He had always supported the present Nlinisteis in their lawful and useful ac t s —(A l aug h) —an d h e wou ld con tinue to give them such support. He trusted the H o use.would see the necessity of bringing back the salaries to * tire scale of 1797. In th a t year t h e whole amount of the salaries paid in the publi c o ffi ces under the Crown was 1,374,5001., and the number of persons employed wa , about sixteen thousand. In 1815, t h e amount paid was 3,200,5001., exceeding the salaries of 1797 by nearly two millions, which was a difference greatly disproportioned to . the increase of persons employed. At the same time, be did not think that the-persons receiving from 100/. to 26 0 1. ' a• year were overpaid. It w a s of the higher salaties he complained.--(Heal.) A. ccording to th e re t urns t h en before him, the s a laries pa i d in 1830 t o 980 persons =Quilted to 2,9 00,0001., giving an average of 2,0001. 1, year ; whereas the salaries of those persons who did the work averaged no more than 4001. —(Hear.) There were a number of persons receiving I,boo/. and 2,0001. a year i❑ offices, respecting the business of which they knew nothing.—(Hear.) Some of those persons held two or three offices. He could paint them out; but, as be did not wish to hurt the feelings ofindividuals, he would merely refer Hon. Gentlemen to papers before the House, from which they would find many such cases. He made the present motion in compliance with the injunction of a numerously attended public meeting of his constitu ele:s; and when he told the House that he had been, a few hours before, called upon to sign two hundred war rants of distress against poor people, in one small district, woo were unable to pay their taxes, the House would re cognise the necessity of diminishing, as much as possihle, taxation which pressed with so much severity. As it was not in their power to reduce the debt, they were the more called upon to make reductions of other parts of the nationel burdens.—( Hear.) In that branch of the ex penditure which was the subject of his motion, a reduc tion was quite practicable, to the enormous amount of one million pounds—(Hear)—and although be did not mean to propose any specific measure, yet he would say, that if the House would grant him a Committee, lie would point out the means of effecting that reduction, without detriment to the public business.—(Hear.) He was pre pared to show, from the contracts for the supplying of Greenwich Hospital, and other larger establishments, with provisions, that the necessaries of life, of almost every kind, were rather cheaper (as we understood him) at present tl an they were in 1797. He concluded by moving the fdlowing resolution :—" That, with a vies• to relieve the country from a part of its burdens, the ex- penditure of the public offices, and, regard being had to the alterations in the value of money, tire salaries of the public officers, should ha reduced to the scale of 1797." Lord ALTHORP agreed with the Worthy Alderman opposite, that regard ought to he had, in the payment of the public servants, to the alterations in the value of money —(Hear)—and that reductions ought to be made as ex tensively as was compatible with the effective discharge of the public business.—(Hear.) He not only concurred in that opinion, but he would assure the Worthy Alder man that the Government had been all along acting upon it.—(Hear.) One of their first measure-a was to refer their own salaries to a Committee of that House; and, according to-the recommendation given by that Committee in their report to the Hoes a a considerable reduction of those salaries was immediately carried into effect.— (Hear.) Having done that with the intervention of the House, the Ministers thought it their duty to take upon themselves the revision of the salaries paid is public officers employed under the Government, and to do so without calling for a Committee of the House, as they considered the inquiry peculiarly their (the Ministers') duty.—(Hear.) They therefore had given instructions to . the principal persons employed in the various offices to furnish explanations of every particular respecting the quantity and kind of labour, the hours of attendance, and the salaries of all the persons in those office', so that the Government might have data whereupon to proceed in their ra duction. They had since dimi nished the number and reduced the salaries of the Com missioners of Customs, and they would next proceed to do the same by the Commissioners of Excise.—(Hear, hear.) They would in the mean time go on with their inquiries, and carry the reduction as far as due regard to the public business would permit.—(Hear, her:r.) He was sure that the House woo4l say that that was the proper course, and that the Administration ought not to deter mine at once, without consideration and without regard to any increase of the public business, to go back to the salaries of 1797 —( Hear, hear.) If the House agreed to the resolution proposed by the worthy Alderman, they would thereby express an opinion that the Government had not done its duty in respect to the reduction of the expendi ture in that department. He hoped that the House would not vote a resolution passing that censure upon the Mi • nisters. He agreed with the worthy Alderman, as to the principle of the resolution, he did not wish to oppose it expressly, and the course he should take would there fore Ire to move the previous question. Mr. HUNT seconded the motion of the Hon. Member for London. He was surprise 4 at the altered tone of the Noble Lord opposite, and at the manner in which the re solution hail been met by him—(Hear, bear, from the Opposition.) When he compared the conduct of the pre sent Ministers since they c one into office, with the course which they followed whilst they sat upon the Opposition benches, he was convinced of the truth of what he had often heard, that gentlemen, in changing sides in that House, changed their opinions and principles.--(Loud cries of " Hear, hear," and " Oh, oh !") He did not mean any tiring personal, for he supposed that it was a mis fortune attached to the other side of the House.—(A laugh.) Now, what was the proposition which the Noble Lord called on the House to reject ? To return to the sa laries of 1797, whereas the worthy Alderman had proved from authentic documents that the necessaries of life were lower, whilat the salaries of public officers were all risen —(Great laughter)—aye, a hilst the salaries were risen.— (Renewed laughter ; some Members near whispered " Raised.") Well, then, they were raised.—(Hear.) He was much obliged to the other side of the House for setting him right.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But he assured them that he did not stand up there with any factious inten tions.—(Hear, hear.) He stood there to do his duty to the people, especially to that portion of which he was the representative. Whenever he spoke of the people, Hon. Gentlemen opposite were accustomed to laugh—(Cries of " No, no," and laughter.) When the Noble Lord who introduced the Reform Bill spoke of the people, the same gentlemen invariably cheered who always gave a great laugh when he (Mr. Hunt) spoke of the people.—("No," . and laughter.) The reason was, that the people whom the Noble Lord meant were those who occupied houses worth ten pounds a year—(" Oh, oh,")--whereas the people of whom he (Mr. Hunt) spoke were those men who laboured for their daily bread. The Worthy Alder man had told the House, that if they gave him a Com mittee Ise would show them how a million a year could be saved to the country : and would the House refuse him that opportunity, when they knew that there were nu merous families in some parts of the country having no more than twopence-halfpenny a day for their support ? Gentlemen had attributed the late disturbances to the Beer Bill, and to other causes which had no connection with them. The fact was, that the people were driven to the acts of outrage by the extreme distress under which they were suffering. Under such circumstances, would the Noble Lord let it go forth to the country, that although the i\linisters would give the people this great Reform 13:11, they would not diminish their own salaries.—(Vehe ment cries of hear, hear.) It was of no use for them to go about cutting off the small salaries of the working clerks, leaving the high salaries untouched. They might also pass their Reform Bill ; but it would be vain for them to look to that Bill for the relief of the peop'e.—(Hear, hear.) He knew, indeed, that a majority of the present Members had been returned to the House to carry that Bill, in con sequence of the excitement which they had raised.—(Near.) But let them look to the condition in which they placed the country.—(Hear, bear.) He hoped the cuckoo cry, that Ire was au enemy to Reform, would not be raised against him for what he was going to say. It was not a Reform Bill—it was not the mere natne of liberty that could relieve distress.--(Hear.) If the House did not, by their vote on that motion, give the people an earnest that they wished to relieve their distress, the Reformßill would g ye no sathf iction.—(Hear, hear.) It was true that ti • Noble Lord who introduced the Bill said that it would give e rZhes had n immediate o t pretendedrelie relief. thattrueltwasit that have wouldtlre Ministers ni:te e rs tle b a te n rs eff b e a c d t; pr l e m u t n t de he d l: n. Press ys, an e dthe out-scouts o f th e Minis he said the Press and the out-scouts of the Ministers deluded the people.—(lm mense cheering from both sides.) The people had been made to expect from th e R e f orm Bill what he (Mr. Hunt) knew it could not realiae.—(Cheers.) Whenever his servants went into the shops in the neighbo ur h oo d . — (A laugh.). He would not be put flown by a laugh. ' He was only stating what he knew to be facts.—(Hear, e ar ) However gentlemen might laugh, h e had servants.._ ." (Hear.) It was true, he lived by trade, and he was not the least ashamed of that.—(Hear.) There were many Members of that House — there were many Noblemen eve i i in the other House, who owed their wealth and rank to trade, and he believed that their-coats did not sit the less smoothly on their backs, or their coronets less conveniently upon their heads on that account.—(Cheers.) When his servants, he repeated, go into the shops, they hear nothing talked of but all the good the Reform Bill ia to do. Some person, hiring a servant, was desirous to engage her for 1 , as the o ß n efo t r i m r, year, on account of the excellent character given front her s h ßi e iio t i • lu t tl o sv ° b on e r last servic e . But the girl said that nothing could induce bound to service for a ye a a n r d , elusion of. laughter pass tb e i sen :I n v '. e h e e e. i which followed months,fAo l s l t e n d 1% 1 - l e e Lost motion tlre beforecon . stbhenuHldonuseet, be ee set w o a u si ld de awssiuthreoute Nobletha division Lord that ion;forif i t the worthy Alderman did not press it be would, in order that it might be known to the country who were the per sons. that refused to have the public burthens diminished, and that too at a time when the Government had increased the army and navy, and had raised troops of yeomanry byto put clown the people, who were drive n t o disturbances 11 wretchedness and want. k n ew that the Reform must pass. He knew that they must have Reform or Re solution ; although he did not think that under the Re form Bill there would ever be a House of Commons more Truly chosen by the will of the people than the present.— ( Hear, hear.) "But you have raised," said he, " such a flame in the country that the people will not he satisfied without Reform.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) You must give Reform, and you must go on and do something for the people—l mean that part of the people who are not included in the Bill." He conclud , dby appealing nal to the Ministers but to the House, and caling upon all gentlemen who valued the character of the House and the good of the country to come forward and teach the Go• cernment that they must not trifle with the country. Mr. SIBTHORPE had thought that the Hon. Member Ibr Preston was a Reformer, and he was gratified by hear ing him say that the people were deluded about the pre sent Bill. For his part, lie (Mr. Sibthorpe) had ever -bought so.—(Hear.) The Hon. Member for Preston also stated - that there never would be a House of Commons more congenial with the people—(" No, no," from Mr. Hunt)—or a House more truly representing the people than he present.—(" No.") He had great satisfaction at hearing what fell from the Worthy Al Lerman, the Member for London. He would supeort the motion. Mr. HUNT rose to explain. What he had said was, that when they had obtained a Reformed House of Cotil lions, it would not be one more truly chos,n by the people than that which at present sat. Mr. HUME said, that the Hon. Member for Preston had no authority for asserting that his Majesty's Ministers had not set, in their own persons and in their own offices, the example of reduction. It was well known to the House, and, he trusted, to the country at large, that he had never ceased to be an advocate for every species of reduction, but he was not so unreasonable as to expect that t very necessary diminution of the public expenditure could be effected all at once.—(Cheers from the Ministerial side). The Hon. Member for Preston was certainly in error ; hut, if so, he must be allowed to say, that that Hon. Member had te•n putting himself wrong. The King's Government had been but a short time in office, and they had given in that time every pledge which, in so -host a period, could be expected from them ; and they had even gone further, for they had given every practical proof that could be required of them, that these profes sions were uttered and those pledges given in a spirit of the most perfect sincerity. Ministers slid they would set an example, and they bad done so. The Hon. Member then referred to the report of the Finance Committee, and ; &Thu ed himself unable to conceive how any Hon. Member, with that before him, could for a single moment hesitate to admit that Government bad set the example of retrench ment, not only by their declarations but by their conduct. Of those immediately in the councils of the Crown, they had made every reasonable reduction of their own accord, with the single exception of the Mastership of the Mint; for that they required a particular Act of Par liament, and the Act had accordingly been introduced ; he would gladly learn what more was to be required of them. It bad been said that the people of England were deluded. That was an assertion which be b-gged utterly to deny. Above all things he would deny, that they had been, or could be deluded upon the question of Reform. If ever there vas one question more than another upon which they were particularly free from delusion, it was the question of Reform ; and, as to the idle story about the servant fleas he wondered how the Hon. 'Member could thing of introducing it ; and he was sure that no man in the country—not the most ignorant or illiterate— would pay the slightest attention to it. How could she know anything about the matter? But the argument sought to be derived from this was, that those who voted for reforming candidates expected some immediate result from it, that would put an end to all the evils of our pre sent system of society and Government. So far from such opinions being prevalent out of doors, he was sure that those Hon. Members who were best acquainted with tire sentiments of the people at large, would bear him out in the statement, that there was not a man who voted for Reform, who did not regard it as the means of obtaining something better ; of accomplishing ulterior objects, from which alone the country could derive relief—and, he hoped, prosperity. They looked upon Reform—not as being, in itself a diminution of expenses—but as a means of effecting objects. They looked upon Reform as the instrument by which they were to obtain a good, a cheap, and an efficient Go vernment. What, then, did the Hon. Member for Pres ton mean when he complained that everything he desired was not effected immediately ? The answer to that was extremely simple and obvious ; it could not be done immediately—it was a matter of time. The ground he took was this—let the measure of Reform 1)e once carried, rand then be would support every rational measure pro motive of economy and retrenchment. But really he could consent to nothing which interfered or appeared to interfere in the remotest degree with that measure—a measure which he wondered how any one could be brought to deny was one of extensive and salutary Reform. How could it be looked upon otherwise than a measure of 13,fortn, when it went to exclude from that House as many as one hundred and fifty nominees ? It really did surprise him that the Hon. Member for Preston, who had been day after day, and year after year, calling out for Reform—it really did surprise him that that Hun. Member, above all men, should say that the present House of Commons adequately represented the people of England, or that that House was then as good as any that they had a prospect of ever getting. He (Mr. Hume) earnestly hoped that the Hon. Member would he deceived in the expectation which he entertained—he hoped that the next Parliament would not only better represent the people than any preceding Parliament, but that it would be the instrument of effecting more good for the nation at large, more of economy, and improved Government than any Parliament that had gone before. Once more he would repeat, that it was the duty of every man who wished well to the country to remove obstacles from rather than to raise them in the way of the great measure with which the attention of Parliament was then chiefly occupied. The Hon. Member for Preston had not done justice to his Majesty's Ministers. Let the How On l y look to what they had done. In 1780 the Secretary of the Treasury had a salary of 4,0001. a year; during the greater part of the war he had a salary of 5,000/. a year. The late Government certaio'y reduced the emoluments of that office to 3,000/. per annum. The Finance Committee recommended that the salary be reduced to 2,5001., and the present Government had reduced it accordingly._ Another example was to be found in the office of the Secretary of State for the Home Department. That was at one time as high as 8,1401., it was then reduced to 6,0001. The Committee recommended that it should be lowered to 5,0001., and the present Government adopted that recommendation. There was next the Colonial Se cretat v ; he had 6,0001 a-year, and the Committee having advised that a sum of 1,000!. be taken off that salary, i t was taken cif. The President of the Council had r salary in the year 1797 of 2,840/. ; it now stood stood at 2,000/, The Lord Privy Seal in 1780 received emoluments amounting to 4,0001., he now had but 2,0001. They had then, as the House and the country must see, begun by reducing their min emoluments, and thus had . given the fairest pledge that those reductions would, in principle, be carried to the subordinate departments of the public set vit e Those were the views which he took of this subjt ct ; but he would nevertheless divide with hirellon. Friend, if the matter were pressed to a division..—(Great laughter.) He certainly should do so, with great reluctance. Mr. HUNT repeated his explanation as given above. Mr. EWART delended his Hon. Friends near him from the charges brought against them by the Hon. Member for Preston. They did not cheer the mention of the people because it came from the Noble Lord, nor. did they laugh at that word on account of its coming from the Hon. Member opposite. In both cases they were influenced solely by the manner in which each speaker adverted to the subject. Mr. O'CONNELL decidedly objected to being go verned by the stria t rule of the amount of salaries paid in 1797. Though of the salaries of that period some were below, there were others above, the present scale of pay ment The Hon. and Learned Member then entered into a statement of the reductions which Ministers had affected, and put it to the House to say whether such conduct was refusing to listen to the cry of distress? It was alleged that the people had been deluded upon the important ques tions of Reform and public distress. The people could not be deluded : the time had arrived when they could dis tinguish between common sense and nonsense--between professions of sympathy and real attempts to afford them relief—between real and -mock Reformersbetween men who would tell them that the addition of 500,000 voters to the constituency of the kingdom was no boon, and that the exclusion from that House of 150 Members nominated • by individuals was no Reform. Mr. SADLER said that Ministers ought rather to assist than obstruct the efforts of the House to effect the reductions for which the necessities of the country called. However, be the reductions made what they might, be hoped that nothing would be done with the subordinate situations which did not, in principle, extend to the su perior offices. Mr. MABERLY was strongly opposed to the scale of, 1797. There were many salaries of that period too high, while, on the other hand, there were some of them too low ; ,and if Ministers were to adopt the rule prescribed to them by th e W ort h y Alderman, they would be exposed to an infinite deal of trouble, and, in the end, come to I no right conclusion after all. The Hon. Gentleman then entered into a warm defence of the conduct of his Ma jesty's Government on the subject pf reduction, defending 'iis Hon. Friends near him from the imputation of having changed their opinions. Mr. DAWSON declared his intention of voting against the motion of the Worthy Alderman, but professed his inability to comprehend how the Hon. Member for Mid dlesex could make the speech be had made, and yet give :,i8 support to the motion. Much had been said of what Government had done in the was' of reduction ; but in truth very little remained for them to do, for other Go vernments had left but a scanty harvest to their siale. The Right Hon. Gentleman then entered into a statement •1 the reductions which ha d been effect ed since 1821 in 73 different departments. In 1821 there were 26,243 diminution of salari es amount 5 persons (so t h e Ri g h t in those 73 departments , with salaries amounting t o :1,694,0001. Between that p eriod and 1829 the numbers were reduced to 22,070 persons , and the salaries to 3,091,0001 . ; h go o n s t.o i3,0c11. t G I ionetl%,otiansaanrset By tuyeedt) ,and a d i Treasury 3 minutes, 286 pe rsons west . reduced, with salaries amounting to 105,7461. making a total of 4,050 persons reduced, and a net amount of 709,7941. saved in salaries. The Might Hon. Gentleman 'hen proceeded to notice the speech of the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry, designating it as indecent and !mparliamentary. He observed that his zealous defence of . he Government seemed to afford some ground for the sus. .Acion that such communication had taken place between him and the other side of the House as left his testimony in their favour not worthy of much credit. After all the boast that had been made dhotis reduction, the only reduc tion he could find was one of 20,0001. and that had been made in consequence of the recommendation of Committee of that House. There had, likewise, been a sum of 10 0001. with revert to the Civil List; but that had been given ❑p; and in fact the Civil List proposed by the Noble Lord was the same as that which had emanated from the lat e Government. Was there any reduction of pensions about which so much noise had been made? Was there any reduction in the estimates? Certainly not in the Army or in the Navy, far there was an increase in both ; in the Ordnance the reduction was very trifling ; and with re spect to the'otli'r estimates, they were not yet before the [louse: bat he believed he might say that, on the whole, the estimates exceeded the estimates of last year, and of every year since the Duke of Wellington had taken office. If, then, there was no reduction horn the state of things— for 'suffering the existence of which the late Government had been characterised as birds of prey—what was there to justify the praises of the Hon. Member for Abmgdon. the Hon. Member for Kerry, and the Hon. Member for Middlesex ? What was there that had been done by the present Government to lull the suspicions of those Hon. Gentlemen ?—(Hear, hear.) Who could recollect the Right Hon. Baronet's speech against pensions and sine cures, when he sat on the Oppositio❑ side of the House, without being a,tanished that he could now sit down calmly and tranquilly, satisfied with the report of a Com mittee ? It was b 3 means of the Right Hon. Baronet, and of the friends who acted with him; that the public mind bad been exasperated to a great extent on this very subject, and yet now not one single reduction was proposed. The fact was, that their object had been answered, in raising the flame, and in exciting that suspicion which had mainly tended to overthrow the late Government ; and now that they were in office, and found that it would not he possible to appease the public demand by making reduc tions, they were obliged to have recourse to this question of Reform, in the hopes of making that a subterfuge.— (Cries of " oh.") He would repeat, that in his opinion, that measure had been brought forward to misdirect the public mind, and to take away its attention from the question o retrenchment. But if Hon. Gentlemen would take the trouble to watch public opinion and public writers, they would see that the object was to direct the public mind to the extinction of the public debt, and the ruin of the public credit. as the necessary rept& of a Reformed Par liament.—(Hear, hear.) This was no new idea of his own.—(A laugh.) The Right Hon. Gentleman here continued his observations in a low voice; upon which some Hon. Gentlemen exclaimed, " Speak out." If any thing tended more than another to convince him of the propriety of his opposition to the Reform that was now proposed, it was to find that it obtained for the Govern ment the support of the Hon. Member for Middlesex, and the Hon. Member for Bridport, anti such sort of gentle mettf—(A laugh.) _ _ Sir JAMES GRAHAM—I cannot understand bow the Right Hon. Gentleman's mind is constituted, to lead him to suppose that the Hon. Member for Kerry cannot give his support to the Government on this occasion with out some base and secret understanding having taken pl :ce between that Hor. and Learned Gentleman and bia.llla jesty's Ministers.—(Cheers.) If I had not heard the ob- servations of the Right Hon. Gentleman, I could not have believed it possible, that because the Hon. Member fur Kerry had done justice to a simple statement of facts, the Right Hon. Gentleman would have thought it necessary again to revert to an insinuation, to the want of foundation of which my Right Hon. Friend, the Secretiry for Ireland. has pledged his honour, and which I am sure the Right Hon. Gentleman cannot doubt for a moment.—(Hear.) Did I want to retort on the Right Hon. Gentleman, I think that I should find ample opportunity in the marvel lous union that has taken place between him and the Hon. Member for Preston.—(Cheers.) I must confess, that I felt participated i p h a e t: r t in the i i ng the late astonishment Chancellor that nf every o theE Exchequer e mustciner lacheer tve that Hou. Gentleman's speech ; but still more astonished was I in hearing the Right Hon. Gentleman who has just sat down re-echo that speech, sentence by sentence.— (Cheers.) Certainly politics lead to strange coalitions -I(ll...tianungs,h te l r h a e n i i t e i ve ch t ee hi r s s )o—n one) —hut ill go down t i o lis p to e r s y te o r f i ty coa a - , unexampled. This strange connection which now sub sista between the Hon. Member for Preston—(" Hear, hear," from Mr. Hunt)—who profe , ses hims e lf a radi cal Reformer, and the party whose cry is " No Reform," and who, I suspect, lost office and power be cause their leader would consent to no Reform whatever— because be conceived the sys.em of representation which now existed to he the most perfect that the art of man could accomplish- This was the memorable declaration of the leader of the Right Hon. Gentleman's party on the first night of the tlhaset RightSessio n of Hon. Gentleman a e nd nte t r o- i n n t i n g h a t ewToehaelitikaingvehmtrisnteehnntnh.eGHenotnle. m M a e n m a b p e p r ea fo r r a Ptaresptlounm. e iHmevaeri.f)—on having discovered a very imperfect fulfillmt•nt of the object of those speeches which I delivered when on the other side of the House. I am, however, quite satisfied that I have a tight to state that, since I accepted office, 1 have en deavoured to fulfil all the retrenchment that I urged from the other side of the House upon the then Government.— When on that side I certainly commented on the salaries of the Members of the Privy Council of the Government to which I was opposed. I certainly commented on the fact that,_ not satisfied with the salaries which they en joyed, they were pluralists ; and I complained that while officers who held situations w ere a b a t e d o f theirpoor half pay half-pay, those dist inguised individuals either held their full pay, or together with their offices held large sine (Hear.) Now , what is the fa ct at this mom e nt? l eL s ur there a single individual in the present Cabinet against whom this charge can be brought?—(Cheers.) I say no —(Cheers.) What furth er is the fact? Wh en on the 'other side of the House I contended that the salaries of t he public officers were too high. And have we done nothing since ere ct'me into office towards reducing them ? (Bear.) It would be tedious to state all that have been r educed; but it is well known that almost all the great offices of State have undergone a deduction of from five to twenty per cent., anti that Bills are now actually before the House with respect to the reduction of some of those salaries. The Hon. Member for Aldborough (Mr. Sadler) has sada that he always protested against beginning with :b e reduction of the salaries of clerks, and those holding inferior offices, while the salaries of the superior officers rernainA untouched. That has always been my prin ciple ; and we have not begun with the reduction of clerks' salaries; but having begun our reduction with the salaries. of the Cabinet Ministers, we are proceeding downwards, endeavouring to administer strict justice on the part of the public without pressing too hard on its servants.—(Hear, hear .) In proof of the correctness of what am stating, l e t me direct your attention to what has been dont, with also n sa e on r d s a b bv i respect to the Commissioners of the Customs; and here• let me do justice to the late AdMinistration, who, I must say, during the list eighteen months of their holding office, see med disposed to make large reductions. Two of those went; but what have we done in the short time that we have occupied their places ? We have reduced. the sala ries of the remainder, from 1,4001. to 1,2001. a year. Navy reduced from 1,000/. to 800/. a year; besides which, havethe (;t ; n m a n is d si o ti n i e e rs r h e i a p t s we Nwae'vhyavtie, the et amountdown o n t f he n r in s e i , t situations connected ‘ c v o h n i n e e h e twedav receiving with the fr o m SO/. to 1 ,0001 . a year, in addition to salaries , amount i fromea s g t p o ua b t n e my t between e eu e spi n roe 4 n O t ma and 50. ea s fte o ;n . chen l ;t d t o i: n d o ß t i ti m gi sh a make he Hon. etheseref therefore r e ne necessary statementsessarGentleman y C Ve mn bays iss for Tae all t o time tmhmaaktuesetthbeese statements. 'Neither do I say that our n p d l . e an be one ; quite the reverse. • But I say t t that shall we be able to redee m gdi a ve ll n :, respect to the Worthy Alderman's proposition, I never, at pledges.--(Cheers.) ir ch d e o e u r b a. t ) tha lv t any contended for the reduction of saliries' to the standard of 1797.. I 'did. Make it the groiriid` work of my P o i abolished Victualling uh‘ eldl four gD of pf abolisheda trhttele: the late Govern observations, that prices have fallen .since 1797. . But have we not yielded to that fact ? I say that we have. ror in.many cases we have made reductions even beyond th e standard of 1797 ; and, therefore, to tie us down to that very ration giunhl be very inexpedient. What we have done has been in accordance to the rule which we prescribed to ourselves. W►.at we shall do will be in ac cordance to that rule; and 1 have no doubt that in the course cif the next session we shall be able to bring down ill that can be brought down, consistently with the secu rity and well-being of the Government of the country. I Mould have concluded the observations which I had to make here, but that the Right lion. Gentleman has con- nected the question of Reform with the destruction of public credit and the ruin of all the great institutions of th e country. Now I ask the Right Hon. Gentleman ,vhether there is not something singular in the fact, that those who ought to be most sensitive on the score of public credit—viz the public creditors them selves—should entertain an opinion diametrically op oosite to that of the Right Hon. Gentleman ? If we contrast the state of the public credit at this moment with what it was at the period when the Reform Bill was it* introduced, it will be clearly perceived that the public aredit of the country has vastly improved.—(A voice here .xclaimed, " no, no.") Dnes the Hon. Gentleman who .rives that negative mean to deny the fact that the funds lave since the period to which I alluded risen six or seven per cent. ?—(Hear, hear.) Is he ignorant, that at a meet ing bell in the City of London to petition in favour of Re form, one of the resolutions was proposed by a banker (I shall not mention his name,) who is supposed to be the I trgest fundholder in the kingdom.--(llere some Hon. Member intimated that the !tinker alluded to was Mr. Loyd.) I do allude to Mr. Loyd as having proposed that resolution. But, independently of these paints, does it not stand irrefragable, and beyond contradiction, that if the measure was necess try for the internal peace and tran quillity of the country. it must also he nece•sary for the public faith and public:security of the country ?—(Cheere.) But the Right lion. Gentlemen has also thought proper to taunt us with the present state of the estimates. I hope that when we are thus taunted the House will he so good .s to remember what was the state of the country when the Right Hon. Gentlemen's party quitted office. —(Loud cheers.) I hope it will be recollected what was the con 'ition of the empire when the late Ministers fled from the helm, declaring that they were unabie any longer to govern ir.—(Cheers.) At that time the six home counties of England were almost in a state of open in surrection—the state of Ireland was most alarming— and our foreign relations were most diteurbetl.—(A laugh from some Hon. Gentlemen on the Opposition.) Does the Hon. Gentleman who laughs at that statement mean to deny the fact ?—(Cheers.) I have every respect for that lion. Gentleman, and should be happy to hear him on his legs controvert tny statement ; but the mode which he has at present adopted is neither courteous nor cus tomary.—(Hear, hear.) Sure I ant, however, that the country will hear there circumstances in mind—and if by a healing course of measures the internal peace and tranquillity of the country can be restored, I am satisfied that it will be in the power of the Executive Government to effect large reductions in the military and naval esta blishments of this country.—(Cheers.) I agree with the Hon. Member for Middlesex, that these immense establish ments are the main cause of the enormous expenditure of the country ; but he may rely upon it, that when we can make any reduction we shall ; and that if Reform, as we expect, give real tranquillity to the country, the time for those reductions will very soon arrive. But at the same time let us remember that that measure is necessary as a preliminary.—(Cheers.) By that measure we are pre pared, es we ever have been, to stand or fall. If that measure could be carried, we entertain a con fident expectation that all our pledges of economy may be easily redeemed, and that, instead of stand ing convicted of a base dereliction of duty, as has been laid to our charge this night, 'we shall go down to postsrity as Ministers—(A laugh on the Opposition side, which was answered by loud cheers:from the Ministe rial benches)—who redeemed not only their pledges—l had almost called them their paltry pledges—of economy, hut also that pledge which was the ground-work of their party when in opposition, viz.—of their conviction, that without a Reform in the representation of the country, the Government of it could not be safely or honourably conducted.--(Loud and long-continued cheering.) Mr. GOULBURN—He would not argue with the Right lion. Baronet what the opinion of posterity might be; but if the judgment of the present day was an index of that of posterity, he thought that the Right Hon. Ba ronet had not much reason to flatter himself on that head --(Hear, hear.) He had not heard the whole of the Right Hon. Baronet's speech: but it c.rtainly had struck him as extraordinary, that the Right Hon. Baronet had contrived, very ingeniously, to avoid the real question be fore the House for the sake of launching into an argument on that of Reform. On adverting to the motion pro posed to the House by the Right lion. Baronet when on the Opposition side, he • (Mr. Goulburn) found that he distinctly alluded to the rate of salaries paid in 1797; and he was therefore surprised how he could oppose the motion of the worthy Alderman on the present occa sion. The Right Honourable Baronet, however, had accused the late Government of leaving the affairs of the country in such a situation when they fled front the helm, that this could not be avoided. But the late Government did not fly from the helm. They acted on a princip'e on which it was consistent with the dignity of a Government to act. When the House of Commons showed that it had withdrawn that support, without which the Government could not act effectively they did tender their resignation to his Majesty, and begged hint to allow them to withdraw their services. Other Governments might pursue a different course.— (Hear, hear.) He was willing to admit that the home counties of England were nearly in a state of insurrection at the time when the present Government came into office; but could the Right Hon. Baronet entertain a doubt as to the termination of those disturbances, whatever Govern ment might have happened to be in office ? Had not measures been already taken for the suppression of those disturbances? And iu fact, though it was true that Special Commissions were issued, were not they put dawn —not owing to the merits of any particular Ministry, but because the country was ready to lend its support to whatever party might be holding the reins of Government ? With respect to what had fallen from the Right Hon. Baronet with respect to Ireland, he (Mr. Gouiburn) did not apprehend that that was the time to enter into a dis cussion on the state of that country; but if he might judge from the statements Which were now appearing in the newspapers, of what was taking pace there at the pitesent time, he would be justified in saving there still was in that country, and had been for some time past, much to alarm every man who felt for its interests, and who wished that it should continue to retain its connection with Eng land.—(Hear, bear.) The Right Hon. Baronet had inti mated that there would hereafter be great reductions in the . Naval and Military Establishments of the country. Be' hoped that things would presently wear such an aspect as. to allow of tie proposed reduction ; and in that case lx, should have the sincerest gratification in supporting the Right Hon. Baronet. Mr. STANLEY never remembered any debate in which such inconsistency had been manifested between the speeches of Hon. Members and their votes.—(Cheers.) The Hon. Member for Middlesex had been inconsistent with himself ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. Dawson) consistent only with the Hon. Member for Preston.—(A laugh and cheers.) His Right Hon. Friend (Sir J. Graham) had fallen under the censure of the last speaker . ; for having in troduced the subject of Reform, when _the fact was, that whatever his Right Hon. Friend had said on that subjeCt, was only in reply to the Right lion.'Friend' olthe late Chancellor of the Eichequer. It was certainly somewhat unfortunate that the Right lion. Gentleman had missed hearing nearly all his Right Hon. Friend's speech, as well as the whole of the Right Hon. Gentleman's (Mr. Daw- . son) speech, or he would have known that that part of the speech of the First Lord of the Admiralty , of which he was in (Mr. D answer to what n) on it .s had fallen subjectf ni m the of t ß •O i t g li h p t laind Hon. e Gentleman Reform. Mr. DAWSON—The question of Reform was not in tradueed by me. Mr. STANLEY—it was not for him to tell by what . undefined chain of reasoning the Hon. Gentleman had ar rived at the subject of Reform. But he would appeal to the recollection of those who had heard what the . Right . Hon. Gentleman had said—not to that of the late Chan cellor of the Exchequer, who had not heard what he bail said—(A laugh)—whether the Right Hon. Gentleman had not concluded his speech with a violent tirade against Reform, as if the Government bad never supported Res form before, but had suddenly seized upon it us a new idea to carry away the minds of the people from the subject of retrenchment.—(Hear, hear.) It might well have been said that the present GoVernment was deluding the country if, in the state in which the late Government had left the country, they had pretended that they were ahla to dintiniah its military establishment.—(Hear, bear.) But the Right Hon. Gentlenian (Mr. Goitlbtirn) had, by way of taunt, said that there were some Governments who would not fly from the helm, but who were still determined to hold, their places. He (Mr. Stanley) would say this, that the present Ministers were determined, if they could, to carry,the grrat 'question of Reform; and if they did carry that great measure, on their public character and principles had. throughout been staked, they would h►=e ' i n time in forwarding those oth er measures w hi c h they uniformly supported. The public wished and hoped, he believed, that they should remain in office to carry Iliac Bill through. For his own part he should not feel any regret at abandoning office, nor would, he believed, any , ,f his friends; but neither he nor any one of them would shrink from office, however laborious their duties or thaok less their task, as long as they thought that their holding ,ffice was for the benefit of the country. The Right lion. Gentleman said that it was not at present for the Itenefit of the country. But why did the Right Hon. Gentleman and his friends quit office? Because they could not carry on the Government. Public opinion had been ffonounred too strongly against them. They quitted office after having been defeated on one question, because they would not encounter defeat on the question thit was next to follow.—( Hear, hear.) He had heard the Noble Duke !ately at the head of the Government declare, that he left ;ace and gave up the situation of Prime Minister after having been left in a minority on the question of the Civil List, because he did not like to suffer a defeat on the great position of Parliamentary Reform.--(Hear, bear.) The :tight Hon. Gentleman had taunted Ministers with keep ing their places after being left in a minority, and he was very severe on his Noble Friend the Chancellor ( f the Exchequer on account of his Budget; but did the Right Honourable Gentleman not recollect then what had happened to his own friends, and to himself, on one .n• two occasions ? Was he, as Chancellor of the Exchequer never left in a minority—soeser obliged to abandon any if his measures.—(Cheers.) (A voice, " the Stamp Duties.") He did not mean the Stamp Duties, though that .vas one case. But did they go out of office when they were left in a minority on the question of giving two pen sions to the sons of Cabinet Ministers.—(Loud eheers.).-- rimy had not shown any reluctance to remain in office after being defeated. He did not complain of that.--(A voice, " The Test and Corporation Acts also.") The de feat on the Test and Corporation Acts he considered at tiifle. He repeated, he did not blame the Right Hon. Gentleman for not leaving office, but he thought it right 'o recall these circumstances to his recollection, when be, .if all men, talked of Ministers having a pertinacious at tachment to office, in which they had, as yet, remaintd but a very short time compared with the period in which office had been held by the Right Hon. Gentleman and his friends.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gentleman had re ferred, in his discursive speech, to the state of Ireland; hut there was no time to discuss a question of so much difficulty as that on such an incidental occasion. Much had been done for that country, though more yet remained co do; but take that country throughout, and he would venture to assert, that there was no comparison between the security now generally enjoyed, which was greater than had ever been anticipated, and the state cf dis turbance in which that country was left when the Right Hon. Gentleman and his friends had left office. He stated that, fearing no contradiction. The Right Hon. Gentleman had talked of measures which had been taken before he left office; but he must say, that he knew nothing of them, and had never discovered any trace f them. As far as be understood and was informed of measures for the suppression of the disturbances of that country when the Right Hon. Gentleman left the Admi nistration, there was no public record whatever, nor the slightest public proof that any such measures ever were contemplated.—(Cheers.) If there were any, they had all melted away " like the baseless fabric of a vision." With regard to the southern and western counties of Ire land, in which the disturbances had prevailed, there cer tainly was much to regret ; but there was al.o now much that was consolatory, and much that encouraged a hope of returning and continuing peace. Peace and tranquility were, in fact, being restored in that country, more rapidly than those who did not behold it could well believe.. If any measure more than another had tended to this good end— if any measure more than another had checked that danger with which the country was threatened, and might per chance be threatened rgain with it—if any one Ineasuro mere than another had stayed the agitation which was going on for what was called the Repeal of the Union, which meant the separation of the two countries— it was that very measure which the Right Hon. Gentleman had so much abused—that measure of Par lanrentary Reform—(" Hear" from Mr. O . Connell)— which bad at once pleased the people of England, and satisfied the people of Ireland.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon: Gentleman' could not pr.ssihly conceive that he (Mr. Stanley) and the Hon. Meml•er for Kerry could act to gether for the good of the country, notwithstanding his own extraordinary union with the Hon. Member for Pieston ; and he could not conceive that there could Le any co-operation between bum and Mr. O'Connell unless there had been some dishonourable and disgraceful com- promise. It had been his painful duty to act in opposition to the Hon. and Learned Member for Kerry. If be were placed in a similar situation again, if he found that the Hon. and Learned Member was exerting his great talent, and his extraordinary abilities in effecting mischief—if be found him again trying to offend against the laws of the country, be would not be found deficient in the perform ance of his duty, .and certainly would not neglect, how ever painful he might feel it, as strenuously to oppose that Hon. and Learned Member as he had done before.— ( Hear, bear.) But when he found that Han. and Learned - - Member exerting his great talents for the advantage of the country, he should feel ashamed of himself, if he allowed the remembrance of any political differences—be would not say personal differences, for there were none —but if he could suffer political differences to prevent him from concurring with that Honourab l e and Learned Member, and co-operating zealously and cordially with him, when he found that he was labouring for the good of the country.—(Hear, hear.) It was not his intention to follow the Right Hon. GentleL man through the various topics of his speech, in which he had touched upon every thing but the question before the House; he would only say, that the Right Hon. Gentle man's charge of inconsistency against his Right Hon. Friend the First Lord of the Admiralty, was without foundation. His Right Hon. Friend never had contem plated the reduction of salaries without any reference whatever to the change in the currency. For his own part, he felt so strongly against the motion of the Hon; Alderman, and he was convinced that the House and the country felt so strongly against it, that he doubted whe ther the Hon. Alderman, though supported by the Hon. Member for Preston, could bring the question to the test of a division. If he did, so strong was his, conviction of the feeling of the country, and ao strong was his con scientious conviction, that he must say, he had never gone out of the House against any motion with a mete thorough satisfaction that his opinion was correct.--(" Question.") Mr. GILLON reproached the Opposition with hav ing, on several occdsions, formed most unnatural coa litions, and to compliment Mr. Hume for his consistency. Some of the Right Hon. Gentlemen had spoken of the distress of the country; but he happened to know that it was not so great as in former periods. In 1826 and 1827, when the Right Hon. Gentlemen were in ()like, the people of Scotland were labouring fourteen hours in the day, and not earning above three shillings in the we k. That was not now the case. (On the Hon. Member resumingbis seat, there were loud calls of " Question.") Mr. Alderman WOOD briefly replied. The House then divided ; when there' appeared— For the previous question 216 Against it l3 Majority against Alderman Wood's motion --403 The following are the thirteen Members who voted fur the original motion : Biirrell, Sir r. M. Hodgson, John iSibthorpe, C. 1). L. Bainbridge, E. T. . Handcock, Richard Sadler, M. I'. Bateson, Sir R. lngilby, Sir W. • Dick, Quintin Kenyon, Hon. L. TELLEas. Hunt, H. Mostsn, F. W. L. Huni e , Jo s eph Houldsworth, T. Wood, Alderman GENERAL REGISTER OF DEEDS. Ou re-entering the Gallery, we found Mr. JOHN CAMPBELL on his lees, moving for leave to bring in his General Register of Deeds Bill. We understood hint to complain of the opposition which had been made to the Bill by one class of professional men. They had not op posed it directly and in person, but they had put others forward to oppose it. The Bill bad been described as in tended to bring all deeds to London, and lodge them in one mausoleum. Nothing was more false. He intended that pro prietors should still retain the custody of their own deeds, though copies of them might be lodged in the office. It was said that it would be better to have offices in each county, .and that if there were only one great office, there might be some great calamity, and then all their deeds would be lost. But what he had said of the proprietors keeping :hs , ir own deeds was a complete answer to this ; and if there were offices in different parts of the country, that would occasion great trouble and inconvenience. The country solicitera were afraid of losing their business; but their fears sere without foundation ; for, according to the Bill, not a single London agent would be necessary. The Bill would certainly contribute to put an end to equitable mortgages; but they were considered an evil, and the late •Solieitor•General had brought in a Bill to prevent a de posit of deeds, for money advanced, giving a lien on the land. lie hoped that Bill would pass into a law, and that would relieve the Register Bill from this o bjection :,, had been asked by the Nob:e Lord, the re pre.enta ,, t , : i,. . , fur Yorkshire, to exempt that county from' the er' ow, lie of the Bill. If the Noble Lord Ovoid in. .ht FrEl:sl;:tiliF!t tuna of uu one or bcthtit to