The Sun. — London, England, 1834-07-18 00:00:00

grounds, private gr Hear, hee r: from th e C a bi net, to be irreparable.— ? 0 , vrieua Lor d His Majesty h as now placed my Noble (Loud chew' ibourne at the h ea d o f the Government.,— my s incere mg.) I am perfeinly ready to state as His conviction,nothat ; - 11 soliciting Lord Mellret_ne N ia :l esV has made conviction,. F mat abilities, • and lanwise decision.--(Cheers.) He on, which liked great judgment and dectif • natural and acquired, Minister.. of Ms CO t qualities d, a a s re fa n r e as ces m sa y ' ry in the First opinion goes, have, had the satisfaction, on on most occasions, of hav ing curred 'in opinion with him.—( Hear, and cheers, ) in ' these r' • a Arcumstances his Majesty was graciously pleased to desk e It is no ie r , ontinuation of my services.---( Immense cheeri ng .) agreeable for a man to speak of himself, b u t I am 1.11)un r avfew words in explanation on th e p resent occa- Sion. S/ a . .r," I have always had, as I belie ve it i s genera ll y knownl always have had, a great disincli na ti on to b e i n office. I shall not now say that the experience have had of office nas at all diminished that disinclination —(Laughter.) put, Sir, in addition to this private feeling, I felt circum- Oen' .3es connected with the present state of affairs, which ger' .ainly did increase my feeling on this point. Cries af « Hear, hear.") I w as aware , h av i ng the feeling which I ive stated I always have entertained for Lord Grey, hat my resignation was the cause of Lord Grey's r• retirement.—( Hear.) This added 'greatly, certainly, to the • disinclination I had to be again in office, for I should not have liked to have had it said that Lord Grey had retired, and that I had in the end remained. This feeling, however, was undoubtedly greatly diminished by Lord Grey's own strong advice to me to continue in my present office. ._( Hear, he ar, hear.) These are all, however, minor points. Thi:y all relate to private feeling. When I looked no my public duty I saw every public ground for saying I wag:lit to continue where I am.—(Hear, hear, and cheers.) I could riot, see one public ground which could justify my re fusing to :continue in the office I hold. That being the case, 'I felt it t be my imperative duty to ,continue to. act.—( Loud cheers.) Now, Ido 'not know that it is necessary for me to ay more on the reconstruction of the Government. I wi'sh to add, in a very few words, however, and a very few words 'they will need to be, a statement of the principles on whidi the Administration is forined—( Cries of ".Hear, hear.") • The principles, ,then, -on w hi c h t h e A dministration of this.. .4 cdurttry is bound to proceed arc, that while the 'Government 14 shot Id presen-e the institutions of the country, they should • carry, forward such reasonable but effectual ' reform--(Cties 'of " Hear, hear")—as the people have a right 'to expect would be'the consequence of the reform of Parliament -- (Loud and long-continued cheering)._ • and that while Government will feel it to be their bounden duty not to propose any thing which can produce any danger to the institutions of the country, they must take care that they are so arranged and perfected that they shall neither be more than adequate, nor less than v.lequatc, to the objects for which they are intended ; and that they should in every respect be so adapted as to suit the present and existing circumstances of the country.—(Hear;hear, hear. ) I would say these are the principles indee-1 on which L or d Grey's Government proceed e d. In tkit Government we *undoubtedly met with obstructions, but still these were the principles on which we proreosed and wished to act. These are the principles on 'Which his Majesty's present Government intend to act- —ira may even now meet with difficulties and o b s t ruct i Jas, but we shall endeavour to overcome them.-._( Great, cheering. The N o ble d then moved for a ne:# writ to issue for the election Lor of another member for. Nottingham in the room of Lord Dun cannon, who ha; tattled his seat by his acceptance of office. The questf.aa having been put, Colon`.4 EVANS hoped that the Government which had Just 1 2,een formed would proceed with more consistency, .as there was no question it would proceed with more abragth, than the last that had been in existence.' Be confessed that he (Colonel Evans) had not gone along nvith the Noble Lord, because in his opinion the Noble Lord bad not fulfilled what the country had a right to expect in the way of reform. He begged to allude to a circumstance that Iliad occurred a few days since--he meant a requisition which had been got up, addressed to the Noble Lord opposite 'which had been brought to him, .and lie thought it his duty to :his constituents to state why he had not signed it.--( Cries of ." Oh, oh.") As there were very few Members on his ( Colonel E.''s) side of the House who had not signed it, lie thought it necessary._._( Renewed cries of " Oh.") Notwithstanding the number of " Oh's !" he assured, the House that he had very good grounds for declining to sign it, and he thought it but fair that every individual, however humble he might be, should satisfy his constituents in regard to his reasons for net having signed it. He had not refused from any factious :motives.-_( Cries of " Oh, oh !") He begged to observe, that - the practice of getting up requisitions had been lately grow ing into an establis:ned custom.---( Hear.) He did not mean to say whether the practice was useful or not, but it was now regularly referred to on such occasions. The mo tion of the Uonourable Member for Middlesex for the adjournment of the House was quite in accordance with established usage, as it was very natural to suppose that his Majesty should be allowed a reasonable time to select hie Ministers.--( Hear, hear, hear.) But if Parlia ment was allowed to suspend its functions, in order to afford hie' M a j esty that opportunity, he should' be extremely sorry that the Members of that House should sus pend, their functions also, and act in so unconstitutional a manner. --(Oh !) Many of the Hon. Gentleman who had signed that requisition had greater claims and greater weight !with the country than himself, but he would beg to ask what was the consequence of such a proceeding? It was in some degree to prevent his Majesty from exercising his free choice in the selection of his Ministers.—(Hear.) Did it not in some degree transfer the operations of Parliament to clubs and cabals, or parties out of that House ?—(" Hear," and " Oh.") He ( Col. Evans) contended that that would be the probable re sult of it. He had not the most remote intention of charging any of the Hon. Menibers who signed that requisition with iraprepriety of conduct. What was the position in which the signing of that document had placed his Hon. Friend near Lim ? They had thereby expressed their satisfaction with the conduct of Government ; it remained to be proved whether his Hon. friends had good ground for expressing that confidence, and changing their previous opinions. —(Cries of oh ! and no.) He contended that there was not one expression of dissa tisfaction in that address, and what was it if it was not a virtual approbation of the conduct of the Government? He trusted from the speech of the Noble Lord that the business of the country would be satisfactorily conducted, although he could not help agreeing with the Noble Lord in the loss which the Administration had sustained-4 Hear, hear)— ia the retirement of Earl Grey.—( Hear, hear.) He would • conclude by expressing a hope that the present Government would be better able to carry on salutary reforms in the insti tutions of the country than the last, as the last Government Was undoubtedly a better one than that which preceded it. Mr. TENNYSON said, that the last subject to which be should have thought of alluding was that adverted to by his Hon. and Gallant Friend.—( Hear, hear.) He would reply to it by simply saying, that nothing could be further from his own intention, and that, he was persuaded, of all those who had signed the address to the Noble Lord, than to invade the most sacred prerogative of the Crown—that of freely nomi nating its Ministers. The paper in question was merely to express the good opinion of the Noble Lord entertained by those who signed it, and their assurance of support if his Ma jesty should be pleased to recall him to office ; being con vinced that he would not return to it, unless he saw his way to act upon the Constitutional and liberal principles for which they gave him credit, and which he had now so fully avowed, as those upon which he was resolved to act.—( Cheers.) After what the Noble Lord had now stated, he was persuaded that the present Government would adopt a liberal policy, and that, while they preserved the prerogatives of the Crown, and main tained the institutions of the country unimpaired, they meant to give to the people the full benefit of the wholesome prin ciples of reform.--( Hear.) Indeed the Noble Lord had ex presily declared that the new administration was formed on this principle ; and if the Noble Lord did not feel that he had so allied himself, and had not made such arrange ments with his colleagues as would enable him to carry the purposes of reform into full and safe effect, he never would have consented to return to office. This was his (Mr. Tennyson's) firm belief; and therefore, being persuaded that it was the intention of the present Government to act up to the declaration of the Noble Lord, they should have his support until he saw the Government take some step which .would be a clear departure from the principles on which they had set out. He would venture to invite those with whom he had chiefly voted in that House, to take the same course. While they agreed with the new Government in their princi ples, they should not be over particular in scanning 0,-• at arriving at a result, and, as he hoped to —.4r mode up the principles of the Reform BP' fully give his confidence to " ibt One StiBi4M elfeb ment with which he - ""' NelAn MA tkle Govern the Noble Lord ;•," etTrintecl, being assured that neither hor nis toiltagn e t in offii . e_ would re cause to . - epent the courtt, he had t Ic i en irit'ite' all the lik,ral elements in the House 'vv-pait_Hd.now co-operate. It would be most satisfa tc o the enlintry to see such a cooperation for averot,l As results which the country had so albii o , - , s l y t to flow from the reform in the represents .e peopl6.—( Cheer. ) Mr. MATTI-LI / 0 ATT nnplained, that at this late period ;;; the Session point o r - t h e business don e ) nt of but early i n, u " - .in to suspend its fun c ti on: 'en called portunity to the Admi&-' (4 - an op %.r it had ED quarrel l'ergi lie comple' rown, form(' on as of •carrels, • mem lf the eked 'ien of the Hon. Member's observations teeri Jure lost in conse quence of the noise eYka.sioneo by Hon. Members leaving the House.) Instead of acting, as he had pretended, in con .ferealty with the spirit of the age, and attending to the wants of the people; he had devoted his titre, end that of his colleagues, to chimerical an d u se l ess chano, se that he (Mr. colleagues, Attwood) believed that never` had been assembled within the walls of Parliament a Ministry less possessing the confidence of the country. From time to time however, Ministers had complained of pressure from without, and had even called upon their opponents to shield them from the danger. As it was avowed that the present Govern ment was to act upon the same principles, he saw no hope for any of the great and suffering interests of the country. Sir R. PEEL.---As regards the expression of a little im. patience by the House, of some parts of the speech by one so much entitled to attention as is my Hon. Friend, I infer not a disposition on the part of' the House to interrupt my Hon. Friend in the delivery of his opinions, nor that the House deem unworthy their consideration anything that might fall from him, but rather a feeling hi which I must confess I par ticipate—that it may be better to postpone the consideration of the effects the late changes in his Majesty's Government are likely to produce,' till there shall be brought under the consideration of the House, and emanating from his Majesty's Government, some more distinct measure than the mere mov ing of a new writ—( Hear, hear, hear.) Being persuaded that such is the general feeling of the House, I will so far conform to it, that I will abstain on the present occasion from making any observations on the probable policy, or what may be the consequences of the policy, of the present Government (Hear, hear.) The Noble Lord opposite having, how ever, stated, in very general terms, what are the prin ciples on which the Government has been formed, he will, perhaps, not object, more particularly as we have now arrived at the 1 7th of July, and the session must be draw ing to a close-1 say, perhaps the Noble Lord opposite will not, under these circumstances, think it an unreason able request, if I ask him to explain further with reference to those measures now before Parliament, what is the application of the general principles on which the Government professes to be founded.—(Loud cries of " Hear !") On looking into the order book, I find that there are three mea sures which properly bear the name of government measures ; and they are perhaps th e on l y measures i n that book ,that are entitled to such a designation. I wish to askthe Noble Lord, then, whether it is his intention to persevere, the first in stance,-with the measure respecting church rates, and with the substitution prOpsoa, of - some other charges for those rates.— (,Hear. ) The seeped question I would ask is, what course his Majesty's Government intend to pursue with respect to the Irish Tithe Bill.—( Hear, hear.) The third question I have to ask is, whether his Majesty's Government propose to per severe with the Irish Coercion Bill, in the form in which it was brought in by the late Government, or whethee they will substitute any other, and if so, what are the modifications that are contemplated.—(Cheers.) It seems to me probable that the Noble Lord will not be unwilling to make an explicit declaration as to these matter's ; I trust that, at all events, he will not think my request by any means improper.—( Hear.) Lord ALTHORP- , -In reply to the Right Hon. Gentle man, I beg to state, that as regards the Irish Tithe 13111, it is the intention of his Majesty's Government to persevere with that measure.—( Hear, hear.) With respect to the last ques tion of the Right Hon. Gentleman, I have to inform him, that I shall give notice of my intention to move, to-morrow, for leave to bring in a bill to renew the Coercion Aet, with certain modifications, the nature of which, when I make the motion, I shall state to the House.—(Great cheering.) With respect to the other question, : I am not quit e p r ep are d t o s t a t e t o th e Right Hon. Gentler or the House, whether his Majesty's Government will have'time to carry the measure to which he referred through Parliament this session ; therefore, if he will allow me, to that question I will not give him an answer. Mr. BARING said, in looking at the course his Majesty's Government was likely to pursue, he could not help expressing his apprehension that the security the country possessed that his Majesty's Ministers would not go to extremes, was lost in the absence of the Noble Lord (Earl Grey), who had left the Administration.—( Hear, hear.) He (Mr. Baring) had always entertained the greatest respect for the Noble Lord, whom, as one of a party, he had followed for a great many years, till he saw the necessity of abandoning him when, as Prime Minister, he brought forward measures which he ( Mr. Baring) thought endangered the best institutions of the country. Still he placed great reliance on what he knew to be the honourable and upright intentions of the Noble Lord ; he felt confident that the Noble Lord would see the necessity of stopping some where—that he would not go on urging them headlong in. a course of what the Noble Lord opposite and his colleagues might call reform and improvement, but which the country would describe i n very diff erent terms. H e repeated that the Noble Lord was a security to the country that the Go vernment, of which he was the head, would not adopt ex treme measures. But the whole circumstances of the change that had taken place—( Hear, hear)-'-the manner in which it was made--( Hear, hear)—the manner even in which that sup port had been given, to which there had been an allusion, and which had been so irregularly promoted through the clubs of St. James's, by wary of advice to his Majesty's Ministers— (Loud cries of " No, no," from the Treasury side, answered by cheers from 'the Opposition)—if not to his Majesty's Minis ters, to his Majesty in the exercise of his prerogative--( Re newed cries of " No, no," and cheers)—looking to the quar ter from which this measure proceeded, and to the eager support which the Noble Lord opposite received from those who no doubt believed they were discharging their duty conscientiously, but who were generally to be found arraying themselves in favour of measures which, in his opinion, would involve the Monarchy, and, with the Mo narchy, the liberties of the country—( Cheers)—taking into his consideration all these circumstances, he could not help thinking that the formation of the present Govern ment justified extreme anxiety and apprehension. While some thought improvement, which was their name for revolutionary changes, could not, march too precipitately. the great mass, comprehending the property and intel ligence of the country, entertained a very different opinion. The former could not fail to have their satisfaction particularly increased by the changes that had occurred. He alluded more particularly to the appointment of the Noble Lord (Duncan non) to the office of Home Secretary.--( Hear, hear.) He entertained, to the greatest possible degree, personal respect for the Noble Lord, and he had enjoyed the advantage of that Noble Lord's private friendship. It would be believed, then, that it was with deep regret he felt himself called on to de clare his conviction, that if the opinions of the Noble Lord were allowed to prevail in the Government, the consequence would be nothing short of ruin to the whole of Ireland. In fact, the institutions of that country would be placed at the feet of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman the member for Dublin.— (Much cheering from the Opposition.) What were the kjects of the policy of the Hon. and Learned Gentleman in Ireland he need not stay to inquire, because that Hon. and Learned Gentleman had over and over again announced them. Bearing those objects in mind, then, he repeated his apprehen sions that the Protestant Institutions and interests in Ireland, would be completely placed at the feet of the lion. and Learned Gentleman. With respect to the landed interest of the country, he would say nothing further than that the majo rity of the former Cabinet was rdverse to it, or to those mea sures which the landed interest considered essential to its pro tection. Considerable reliance, however, was placed in the Noble Lord who had retired, and who wag almost Its only support.—.( Hear.) He (Mr. Baring) entertained now consi derable apprehension for that interest, which was the one with which he was more immediately connected. He would not allude to what might be the personal feeling of the Noble Lord on again accepting office—of the propriety of that act he, the Noble Lord, was himself the best judge 1 but he would speak of the public considerations arising out of the change and having no great confidence In the Government as it ex isted before, he should look to the measures of the present Government with additional jealousy and appeehenSion. fie entertained these feelings more particularly with reference to the maintenance of the Protestant Church of Ireland and the Protestant interests of Ireland. He apprehended that in the same manner in which the Church of Ireland was to be vio lently dealt with, would there be an attempt hereafter to deal with the Church of England.—( Hear, hear.) Seeing, from the whole colour and drift of the changes that had taken pike, that they were likely t o a ff ect t h ose Institutions of - the count r y in . which; his conscience, he believed essential to rthe maintb nance of its lib er ti es an d civilisation, hiLi Hold fist 1;:a a 1; tis changes without feeling eezieiclerable embarrassment. The best thing Lord or mn that could no w h aneen to them • ' • - • • . was, that the Noble (.er fiTlakt have the power to get rid of the busi ness tit the 1 14 , ifi re o a u t id in b c e on lcf e e : itreu th.e Genfletho, ,Su ere g tate Of the w a. a t i nie .n e io p g li t e e re g,„. cl en f Ihr In n tow tb n e --(A laugh)—and their presence country; morep#4 . .chlarly if the chres Cop,ternp , latedin T t h h i e s Poor LaWs kiete 146 6irried it iender their presence in the country of tne Ltlftoft portance. He, therefore, sincerely hoped that the Noble Lord would put forward the business of th . e.codotry, and in,the Mean time explain to thviil. itlial 10 PiAeiit, to heti' ninn the Noble Lord some statemed. w!!!! ?!..'!eo, o oe to the budget. Great changes had taken place in both out. receipt and expenditure, yet no notice had hitherto been given as to when the financial statement would be brought forward.— ( Hear.) They had notices of other measures ; and the Right Hon. Gentleman, the President of the Board of Trade (Mr. P. Thomson), had lately made a statement, something in the nature of a budget, remitting taxation to the amount of 200,0001. or ammo/. What had been done by the Right Hon. Gentleman had usually been done by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in a somewhat more regular way. They now had the forces marching together without any apparent object in common. In the management of public affairs, the settle- -Ad to be considered the month, merit of the finances of the c0w..., -- most imphrtaht ; but they had been sitting month tut.. --, doing nothing. except listeni ng to vague , discussions on subjects in Which the count.tord ry to o k li tt l e interest.. Before the Noble bought en .his budget he should move for the produc- In of a paper which would show the entire failure of the No- Lorc ord'o plan for th e re d uct i on of the Four per Cents. A LTHORP' was undhrstood to say that he would • ftriViayll the budget on Wedne _day next. 43 ' C ° 1 "g1.41( s - aid;,- =llk e the Hon. Member for who 1,',-, 1 lugged' in fillfisla and shoulders matters on fo und corn,..rinin:•••again.§‘ , !the present Government,_ he 'Press the h .. heartfelt gs.t-qt-i! lellti°n i ex . he derived from h mate that he was to intro , Die Lord opposite 411 m fr eocreion Bill- 4 Cheers. ) '4l i ? l l he call e d ' q - t-, take up only the peace ' ...._:2.1 ' -se portions which gave I,lc 4 , w:" 4 ; '-; and to increase the - 1 40 *' - ' , ict,--tt' • •t- -* t • If the Nobl6 `''' .N f l -, t iotks' ° 1t5.a4,_...g r A,ed. 0 - ,ia 3 PP°P • tech= c- • „,, .altire :it s 7:: \\'‘'..4;rlll:%llll:r6:ei fl--::11"e ; a 'a 7 . ::: 1 1 .1 71 0 ,1 :' 4dL- le s i ' ::: I;.l3 f o u r t biryelietarshlYcl--e -' t this , - rd. L la ti:00 li' .. bii thit he did .ky7to:fropbl3:Le, °,r:Deseorrea:earry64,4•%o; it for Irelarid ill .'A watt .. ,Sik • 11 u u.- gt country ought t o be pit down, or at least so ret7"7-•- h ad . remedy the evil now complained of. He held in his‘ d that letter from a f r i en d i n L ancas hi re, i n w hi c h i t was stabs., -. o f in one manufactory, of 170 persons over twenty-one le atib ',dl age, ther e were not ten who did not make beer s h o ps s nightly resort, and who did not expend the greater P j their wages th ere i n . Thi s was, therefore, an evil which -06 7;i for an imm e di a t e an d effectual remedy. The Hon. Bar ° h i,- ( Sir E. Knat c hb u ll) was charged with having pressed t. it . measure forward a t t he end of th e sess i on , but s hou ld be Aolleeted that the Hon. Baronet had introduced it at an ° I period, and that it h a d now b een f or some months before,ttser House ; and of this he felt assured, that the Hon. Bar te j ss deserved the thanks of that House and the country, for haw"' brought it forward.—( Hear, hear. Mr. TOWER said a few words with respect to the or of beer shops. Mr. PARROTT said that the Bill brought in by the P ° ,.._ ks of Wellington for op en i ng t h e sa l e o f b eer was one mo st; neficial to the count r y, an d h e was sorry to see that messes run down by vulgar clamour—( No, no)-- a y e , by vulgar eir o mous raised out of d oors , - an d, h e was sorry to say, eche eti that House.—( Hear, he ar .) H e did not agree w i t h eve'r s measure proposed during the Administration of the Duke , Wellington, but he would s a y th at hi s B eer Bi l l was cale..tt„, lated to produce the greate s t b ene fi t to t h e people, an d he r e " gretted to hear a vulgar clam our ra i se d against i t. H e hop ed that the Hon. Baronet, to wh om h e i mpute d no improper ' Lives, would withdraw his Bill, and allow the question to r! main at rest until next session. He, in his capacity of . 11),..eg; strate, only found one cause of complaint against: one 13 ' shop out of thirty-six parishes, and that a very slight one. Mr. HALL DARE diff ere d a lt oget h er w i t h t h e /1?0...A Member who had last spoken. If ever there was a Bill pale; by that House calculated to undermine the morals and pri°_, pies of the people, it was th e l a t e B eer Bill — i t had the e!ev.7 too, of increasing the po o r ra t e i n a great d egree. F ew (l o. as tlemen had more to do with the administration of justice tu,,, he had, and h e f ou nd th a t th e l a t e Bill h a d a d ded muc h tot. P, catalogue of cri m e.. Feeling that Jud ges an d G ran d Jn iis s were in favour of th e propos e d measure , h e wou ld g i ve it efe s " support in his power. Major BE A UCLERK staid he was determined to give o f Bill every oppo s iti on i n hi s power . B y t h e en f orcemen t ei they drove the poor man from brewing for himself, and n o i they wanted to d r i ve hi m f rom the beer-shop. H e m aintain s , that the trade in beer should be as . open to the poor man as l e. the trade in tea o r co ff ee or sugar, or any other such Adis He opposed the moti on f or go i ng i nto C omm i tte e on the Pi Sir R. INGLIS said that much fled been talked abei, vulgar clamour having be en ra i se d agairict the Duke of lington's Beer Bill. By whom, he would ask, was 7 10 clamour raised ? Was it n o t b y t h e judges of the Grand Juries, the Justices, the Clergy of \the countrl i :„, (Hear, hear.) Were these persons likely to raise a " v ll 4 clamour" against any legislative measure ? Mo . ; but tA i were not the only opponents to that measure ; :he rnid w it . classes of society in the country were equally opposed teio Why then should the Hon. Member for Totness IsZak e s t bs assertion about vulgar clamour? For himself, even thcs . 4" oo had previously supported the former Bill, he should haleO s s hesitation in revising his opinion upon being better info: and voting for the Bill now before the House. s Mr. ROCHE said a few words, which were inaudible the gallery--(Cries of " Question !" " Divide, divider') The House then divided— For the motion lO5 Against it 35 Majority —7o On our return to the gallery, we found the House in Ce le. mittee on the Bill. Captain H. ROSS in the Chair. The declaratory clause of the Bill was then put and afr e ,,, e4 to, as to th e p ower o f se lli ng B eer under th i s Act, as it y" istud under the present Bill, Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he would propose amendment to the secon d c l ause , to grant l i censes to per!'" who could obtain certificates from six persons in their respect'tive parishes, to sell b eer , prov id e d suc h persons signing fir, tificates should be ten-pound householders, and not malt° or licensed victuallers, or other such persons. .14 Mr. GISBORNE said this clause would only increase . ' - business of country attorneys, who could easily obtain six nig: natures. Mr. WARBURTON said he would propose that the w s „ °rci r " six" be omitted. The difficulty was to say what nunr,, g of sureties should b e requ i re d in different parish e s hari o populations varying from 300 to 500 as the case might be. % tic his opinion the number of sureties should be governed by population of each parish, as the population was returnea,,, each petty session of a coun ty. If f oun d f rom petty sess i° ,, o , returns that there wer e 25 p ar i s h es i n eac h di st i nct d i v ision,„Zl counties • and if the word " s i x " were agree d to, t h en b e w e nP` make a further amendment, that the securities be taken .br Petty Session districts of counties. • Mr. TENNYSON was und ers t oo d to o bj ect to the 13:11 ° it now stood. o , ‘ An HON. MEMBER also objected to the word :: annu ally ; which was introdu ce d i n t o t h e second douse. It would,.'; fact, defeat the object of the framers of the Bill, which hi not wish to see effected. IA Mr. F. PALMER was un d erstoo d to say that the Bill wo n confer no benefit upon the community—it might do serious i$ jury; at all ev en t s , t o say t h e l east o f i t, i ts operation mus t be doubtful, and as such he could not be expected to su pport Mr. - HU-ME said if this Bill were not so objectionable, Ur' so many points, this clause alone would defeat its operation' Let the certificate s b e s i gne d once for all, and then hone 4 men would embark in the beer trade, but not otherwise. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said the duty was to b e paid nually, and he saw no reason why the certificates should n o : also be signed annually. Respectable persons would find no difficulty in obtaining th e i r cert ifi cates, and men of_digerellt characters should not have licenses. Major HANDLEY said that once for all, the certifica te ': might be obtained, b u t h e cou ld i mag i ne occasions on whichL ' would be very difficult t o procure t h em a second time. P wished the word " annually" to be left out. Mr. GISBORNE said if a man could obtain six s ignsedre i l it would prove hi s respecta bili ty and once for all that shoal be held sufficient. Lord G. SOMERSET said a man might properly basT . e r license in 1834, though not so in 1835. A man's chanae!u •rse ni ,; might also, as we ll as hi s prem i ses, change in the co - year, and care should be taken to guard against mockery an fraud. H e h ope d t h e wor d " annually " would be continued " the Bill. Mr. SCHOLEFIELD, as we understood, said he vial $ supporter of the Bill, but for that very reason he o bj e cted t ° the word " annually," as contained in this Bill ; for he kr° parishes in Cumberland and other counties in which six Pe r ' sons could not be found to sign certificates, not being ten' pound householders ; or if they were, might have an eno iti . against an indi v id ua l sna ki ng application for a licence in. in. se ,,:ond year. B es id es, suppose four out of si x or n i ne inn .l v id ua 2s had a fri en d s hi p f or a strange party, then the pelt ' w h o has : hi s li cence for the first year would be likely, nris these eircuisistances, not t o o bt a i n i t i n t h e second year. s difficulty he would recommend to the serious attention a v`" Committee. If the party misconducted himself, then and the n only let him be deprived of his licence. Mr. E. DENISON said A few words which did notrietl eil the gallery. Mr. WARBURTON strongly objected to the use o word " annually" in this clause. There was jobbing e xercise in public-houses--jobbing would also be exercised , in be r; . houses, and that of all things should be avoided. The wi g drawal of one of the securities would be a suspension of and man's licence. Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he would introduce a claus e to obviate the latter objection of the Hon. Member. If in se e parishes six sufficient securities cou ld not b e found, thenl would give leave to make a ppli ca ti on to a neighbouring.pnis,"; Mr. WARBURTON s till sa id h e would object to legisla te upon the future i n t en ti ons o f t h e H on. Baronet. Why limit t h number to nine, out of w hi c h s i x s h ould sign the certifica te' Out of the nine, the parson might be one, the mouse the Lei cond, and the d oc t or t h e t hi rd ; if that were so„ the retv dealer would still have to find six sureties.—( Hear, hear.) Sir E. KNATCHBULL said he wait misunderatood-li did not mean to li m i t t h e num b er, as had been stated lt wel l be for the Committee to fix the number. The House then divided-- For the motion 77 Against it Majority - On our return to the gallery, we found the Comm ttee cussing whether the number of householders should by 3 or._ . Sir E. KNATCHBULL said th a t p rov id e d t h e knutnix o r six were persevered in, he had n o o bj ec ti on to the qualiiicat i° being reduced. After some conversation, Mr. HUME proposed, as amendment, that the Chairman should report progress, ask leave to sit again. He did not, however, persist in motion, and the Committee divided upon the question of Ir taining the number six,:as proposed in the original clause- The numbers were. Ayes.. Noes.. THE SUN, LONDON, ITIDA Y, JULY 1$ 1834, who sat in that House.--( Hear.) At all events it would have all the support which could be afforded to it by the humble* individual who Was now addressing them. No one was More anxious than he was to give efficacy to a measure practically to ensure peace , and the p!.'ofettiiin of pipperty, and thus to enable itefSoris who are well disposed to remain in their houses instead of being forced to quit them by the disturbers of public peace, and - the violators of the rights of prokrty. He could not but think that the course which the Noble Lord had pursued was a complete vindication of those inde pendent men in that House who'had expressed the strongest anxiety with respect to this measure, and nothing was more proper than that the' Noble Lord who had retired from the 1 Administration on account of his opposition to the Coercion Bill, should, on that principle, return to it.—( Cheers.) As to the Tithe Bill, it deserved the deepest consideration, and he hoped he should be able now to show, that in the arrangements of that Bill, however well-intentioned it might have been— and he believed it to have been so—yet, instead of mitigating the evils, it - most unfortunately would tend to aggravate them. If he could establish this, he did not despair of some other course being adopted by his Majesty's Government. He would recommend the postponement of' this measure for the present, and they could then bring forward a measure more matured at the commencement of another session.—( Hear, hear.) That he hoped the present Government would consent to do, and having raid so muds, he would have resumed his seat, but for pine obServations in which the Hon. Member for Essex had indulged, in which he had alluded particularly to him (Mr. O'Connell) and to a Noble Lord, who, if permitted to do so, he would call, in the language of the House, his Noble Friend. As to him (Mr. O'Connell) the Hon. Member for Essex said that hie objects were perfectly well known. He was much obliged to the Hon. Gentleman for so saying. He wished to act with perfect courtesy to that Hon. Member, but he was sure that he could not return the compliment.— ( A laugh.) He (Mr. O'Connell) had been long enough a Member of the House to have heard the Hon. Gentleman ad vocate, with equal ability, the principles of one side at one time, and of the opposite side at another time, so that it was far from easy to say what were the objects of the lion. Gentle man.—( Laughter and cheers.) Nay, in one and the same speech he had heard the Hon. Gentleman, if he mistook not, advocate b o th sides.—( Renewed laught er .) However sensi tive the Hon. Gentleman might be as regarded the Protestant Establishment in Ireland, and however anxious he might be to preserve it for the sake of the purity of the Protestant faith, he might surely alloW that the late Member for Nottingham was quite as go6cl'a Protest,' pit as he (Mr. B.) was._( Cheers. ) When the it ,, i. CientL.;an said that Ireland would suffer from that Noble Lord having joined the Administration, he would ask the Hon. Gentleman in what respect he could com pare with that Noble Lord? ' He would ask what was the connexion with Ireland of the Hon. Gentleman who ventured that assertion ? While, on the other hand, was not the Noble Lord intimately connected with the interests of the country ; had he not the strong tics of property and of hereditary honours ?—( Loud cheers.) Did the Hon. Gentleman know that there lived in Ireland no family whose name was so honourably connected with the brightest periods of her history, or that was better known as the advocate of popu lar measures, and at the same time the most decided enemy of every faction and measure injurious or threaten ing to the stability of the throne or the liberties of the country ?—( Cheers.) The accession of the Noble Lord to Office, would be a source of great delight to the Irish people. They would see in it a pledge to them that it was the inten tion-of the Government to act for the benefit of their country —that there would be no more measures for the mere support of a faction—that the instrutnents of' faction would be laid aside, and that Ireland would at last have the advantage of a liberal and enlightened Government. That Noble Lord knew Ireland perfectly, and loved her well ; and his appointment to office was a pledge that this Majesty's Government seriously, honestly, and manfully, intended to look into the grievous abuses existing, with a view to their removal. He hailed it .as a symptom of a most pleasing nature, that the. Noble Lord was invested with power. It would he in vain to say that he (Mr. O'Connell) had any personal object in eulogising the Noble Lord ; it was sufficiently well known that no one had more firmness of purpose—that there was not an individual who was less likely to be influenced in his judgment by any such appeal. The Noble Lord was one whose judgment was formed by acts, and who was incapable of being swayed by anything which he (Mr. O'Connell) might say in his praise ; it could not be worth his while to accept from him this humble tribute to his worth. Talking of the Noble Lord's name tar nishing the present Administration, why he (Mr. O'Connell) hailed it as the harbinger of peace to Ireland, and of honour and dignity to the Government.—( Cheers. ) Mr. GISH ORNE spoke in a low tone of voice. He was understood-to complain of the undecided measures of the late Administration, and to express his hope that the present Go vernment would act on the principle of pressing forward treasures Which would be acceptable to the people, without for a moment pausing to consider whether they would be pleased to meet with obstruction in another place.—(Hear, hear.) 'Sir R. PEEL said a few words in reply to an observation of Mr. Gisborne's, which was not heard. Lord PALMERSTON begged to be allowed to make one or two observations in consequence of an allusion made to himself by his Right Hon. Friend near him, by the Right Hon. Baronet, who had described them as Tories. Sir R. PEEL—My remark was made in consequence of what fell from the Hon. Gentleman who has just spoken (Mr. Gisborne). That Hon. Gentleman said that the Tory Members of the late Government had been gradually wheeled out, and that the present Government was . a compound of "pure old Whigs."—( A laugh.) I 'observed that this was a mistake 7 -that they were not "pure old Whigs"—(Laughter, and cheers from the Opposition), whereupon the lion. Gen tleman concluded that] meant to say that they were Radicals. This I deny. What I meant to say was—that the present Government do not consist of " pure old Whigs." I did not say that they are Tory—but that they do not come under the denomination of "pure old Whigs."—(Cheers from the Op position, and laughter.) I recollect the Noble Lord belonged to the . Government of Mr. Perceval, to the Government of Lord Liverpool, to the Government of Mr. Canning, to the Government of LordjGoderich—( Hear, and laughter)—and I thought that inasmuch as he was a person who had formed one of each of these Governments, he - could not come under the denomination of "pure old Whigs."—( Renewed laughter.) Lord PALMERSTON—AII I rose to say was, that'll the Right Hon. Baronet ,meant to imply that myself and my Right Hon. Friend were Tories, then certainly he has in spired me with some hope of a speedy improvement in the present condition of the country.--( Hear, hear.) I and my Right Hon. Friend took an active part in forwarding the mea sure of Parliamentary reform • we are als o p re p are d t o a ct on those principles which my Noble Friend (Lord Althorp) has stated to the House this evening —honestly and boldly to examine all the institutions of the country, with a view not to destroy, but to strengthen them, by remedying their abuses and defects—(Cheers)--and if, such being our principles and our views, we fall under the denomination of Tories, I am happy to hear the Right Hon. Baronet say so, because, as a natural consequence, I conclude that we are likely to have hls support, and the support of his friends, in our efforts to carry those measures of amelioration and improvement that we may feel it to be our duty to bring before the House.—(Great cheering and loughter.) I must add, that Ido not think the Right Hon. Baronet was well treated by the Hon. Member for Essex on the present occasion. The Right Hon. Baronet with his usual good taste and judgment, states that he should not, on the present occasion, go into any detailed criticism of the measures of the late or the present Administrations. The lion. Member for Essex, however, bad begun by telling us that he had been devoted through life, in personal feeling arid public respect, to the Noble Lord who has retired from the Administration-4 Cheers. ) Mr. BARING—ReaIIy, the Noble Lord is quoting what I never said. I did not state that I had been devoted through life to the Noble Lord.-( Hear.) What I said was, that I was an humble follower?f the N o bl e L or d i n party po li t i cs -..,.L.-(liatighter)—up to the d period of th e c h ange when the Re form Bills were . I did not say that I was devoted through life 'to the Noble Lord ; because, for several years past, the measures of the Noble Lord have been such as I could not appt ove. Lord PALMERSTON—ReaIIy, I had not mistaken the meaning of the Hon. Gentleman : the correction is not very th4tOlal; Vie lidd. Gentleman told .us, then, that he had been the follower of did Noble Lord during the greater part of his life, because he respected his private and personal con: duet, and approved of his public principles. But it happened that, precisely at this moment, whenlfie Noble Lord was in a situation iti *Vlilelt lie could carry his political principles— ( Much cheering)—that, I Say, was the moment in which this on. Member thought fit to change his colours, a n d to entei into an active opposition to those measures which he formerly siititiOrftl.—( Cheers.) This is the course which thisi !IS, Member hat pursued towards his leader. Let us net!: Oli ' *hat his course is to another.--( Hear, hear.) The ght Instead, Hon. G h o e w n _- Hon. embei Ilgitie net under the banners—l do not say be is bairn absdlutely thereby, but he is acting apparently in con i ever,.. ~,__ . certw . 4 „,4 hirti mit -gf i i t ii h: i li o l o g d h t L p o r r e ci cis w e u ly ,, t . h: reverse of that It is not which his left,- hear.) on o f thatHo Home subject b jeet from Secretary ; t h I e agree n entirelyan and Gentlemant lem a n c n re left. s :ser occasion,t hadi.n g d othn for me to geinto a reply L. . ex H am oli p . le ß o a f ro th n e et. Ri ' - ... me fills the office ~„, e e 11. . N I - 0 d( b v i s i 1 1 l e h e a a t r ' has fallen from the Hon. eawrnitehd whale fi b :lila - 11 '4 V ao l: b i gt e au m iani b n e tth r aen fo cs r eup D wp u lot b riti li ,t n hc . to confidence, do tr eb u ni escteit honarritaltehppaptrtoehitiaesztimiti:tlacfrtetri this douse i n u t n will re dounda n dth e t 0 1,1 i o country, w n and honour,i ha v a e n a d t perfect otie a c c o li nV an i e t a i g i o ti t , an tr d o . m im in pp j , i l n o ei g s " A li f t o e n r . the F r i unmeasured e lefta su t r h e d e N a v t t h a i c g k of : t h y , of Sir - H.' Which G E m — y -.*.t .t. Lord, I . beg the House to recollect what were the • e cm -I^..ife warty of Conservatives. ' ''ture, and re- cumstances unaei and came over to the more mout.— The.circumstances were of a most disintdesteu dound to his honour.—( Cheers.) As soon as he considered the party politics of the Noble Lord (Grey) and his friend of a dangerous tendency, he changes his mis-politics, and at the very time when the Noble Lord came into power.—(Cheers.) What does the Noble Lord ?—( Hear) The Noble Lord has been in the Administration of Lord Liverpool, Mr. Canning, Earl Ripon, and the Duke of Wellington ; he has been with every Whig Administration up to the present moment ; and under these circumstances I should say that my Hon. Friend need not fear any parallel with the Noble Lord.—( Cheers.) After the Noble. Lord has been twenty years a Tory, and has approved of Tdy principles, he ought to be angry when he is reminded that he has belong ' dd to the Whig party.—( A laugh.) If the Noble, Lord does not like the title of old Whig, perhaps he will nOf'object to • be caked a juvenile Whig.—(A laugh. ) The Ron. Gallant General, in conclusion, complained that the present Government was not disposed to pass the Coercion Bill in the shape in which it was recommended by Earl Grey, as essential to the peace of Ireland, and to the se curity of property in that country. Lord PALMERSTON—I beg to remind the House, since this matter has assumed a personal complexion, that I left the Adminisiratidd df the Duke of Wellington at a time when, in all human probability, the reign in office df his Administration was likely to be of very considerable duration. I differed with the Members of that Government, and I left them on a ques tion not of first-rate importance certainly, but it was a question of Reform.--( Cheers. Mr. BARING.—BIame appears to have been imputed to me because I could not concur with those extraordinary mea sures of change which were brought forward by the Noble Lord. Now wish to state that I never, at any period of my life, voted for any general measure of reform.--(Laughter. ) I don't know what is meant by that laugh. It is a fact that during the thirty years I have sat in Parliament, I never voted for any general measures of reform, though I have voted for such measures as the extension of the franchise to Manchester, Birmingham, and other great manufacturing towns, and for increasing the representation of Scotland. Nor had I ever any reason to suppose that the party I acted with meditated reform of that description which was at last carried. I be lieve that Reform would not have been effected to so great an extent, had it not been for the change which occurred in the Administration. The measure which about thdt period was to have been brought forward by the Noble and Learned Lord (who was then Mr. Brougham) was of a different character; and in support of that, in all probability, I should have given my vote.—( Hear, hear.) Mr. PETRE contended that the censure passed on the late Ministry was without the slightest foundation. They had fulfilled the pledges under which they had undertaken office, and as far as possible redeemed their promises of Re trenchment, Reform, and Peace, notwithstanding the sad forebodings in which many Members indulged with regard to the last of these measures. Mr. H. GRATTAN felt that the New Ministry, as far as ihe measures contemplated towards Ireland were regarded, in stead of throwing that country into the hands of the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, would, by acting as they pro posed, rather take Ireland out of' the hands of that Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He denied the statement made by a Noble Duke in the other House, that more blood was shed under the late administration than that of any which preceded it, and contended that more blood had been shed in Ireland at the period when the Noble Duke himself had been Secretary for that country. He gave the Hon. Gentlemen opposite credit for what they had done, and though he did not think it proper to sign a certain paper, he still might concur in some degree in its sentiments. He now felt satisfied that he had done better in not signing the paper, as the support which he hoped their measures would enable him to give them, would come with a better grace. The Writ ordered. Mr. CHARLES WOOD then moved for a new Writ for the election of a Member for the borough of Sudbury, in the room of Mr. Michael Angelo Taylor, deceased. Ordered. Mr. BUCKINGHAM postponed his motion for a repeal of the Copyright Act. Mr. I - IAL COMB postponed his motion for a Select Com mittee to inquire and report upon the petition of Mr. Charles Beamish, late a clerk in the Navy Pay-Office. CASE OF CAPTAIN ROBISON. Mr. MAURICE O'CONNEL L rose to move for copies of the report made by Captain Robison, relative to the New South Wales vetera n compan i es, in hisletters of the 23d De cember, 1827, and Oth February, 1828, to the Commander in- Chief and Secretary of State for the Colonies, and all re plies and correspondence thereunto referring. (The Hon. and Learned Member addressed a few observations to the House, which weie inaudible in the gallery.) Mr. HUME seconded the motion. Mr. RICE opposed the motion, on the ground that there was at present a law-suit pending, on the very subject of the Hon. and Learned Member's motion. It would not, he thought, be advisable by granting the papers in a measure to prejudge the case. If, however, Captain Robison would draw up a statement o f hi s case and submit it to him (Mr. R.), he would give it all the consideration in his power. In stating this, he did not, however, mean to pledge himself to any course. Upon the grounds stated, he should oppose the mo tion of the Hon. and Learned Member. Mr. O'CONNELL had bestowed the most attentive con sideration upon the case of Captain Robison, and he had no hesitation in saying that he was a most aggrieved man. How ever he (Mr. O'Connell) agreed in the objection of the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and would suggest to the Hon. and Learned Member for Tralee to withdraw his motion. The motion was accordingly withdrawn. AUSTRALIAN COMPANY. In reply to a question from Mr. BARING, which was very indistinctly heard in the gallery, Mr. Secretary RICE regretted that the Hon. Member was not present in the House when the subject of the Australian Company was introduced. He might then have had informa tion upon the subject from those who took part in the debate, which would have prevented him from prejudging the case. He begged to inform the Hon. Gentleman that the Bill upon the subject would be introduced into that House in the course of the evening ; and in the course of its progress he would be ready to vindicate the conduct of the Government in the steps they had taken. The object of the Government was to see if some relief could not be afforded in the way of emigration. DISTRESS IN THE COUNTY OF TIPPERARY. Mr. SHE IL rose to submit a motion of which he had given notice respecting the distress in the county of Tipperary. He had received a letter from Thurles, in which the writer stated that 2,400, out of a population of 7,000, were in a state of ab solute want. The writer of that letter proceeded so far as to express his belief that there was no use in applying to Go vernment for a redress of grievances. That was an opinion in which he (Mr. Shiel) did not agree with him, and having written to him, he received a second letter, dated July 8, in which the writer stated that Major Miller had arrived in Thurles by order of the Government, to investigate the state of the people ; and the writer had no doubt but that his testi mony would fully bear out the statement that very great dis tress existed. Now what he (Mr. Sheil) would suggest was, that the Government advance a sum of 3001. in order that the people might be afforded even temporary employment. It might be asked where was this 300/. to come from. In reply to that inquiry he should say that there was a very large fund at the disposal of the Commissioners of Woods and Forests.— (Hear, hear.) They (he knew it to be a fact) expended the quit and crown rents in England. There was 50,0001. a year, belonging, it was true, to the Crown, expended in decorating Windsor Castle, and (improving the streets of this gorgeous metropolis. The quit and crown rents of Ireland were thus expended, and was it asking too much to give 3001. in order to give employment to the poor starving people ? The Hon. and Learned Member concluded by moving that an humble address be presented to his Majesty, praying that his Majesty would be graciously pleased to take into consideration the state of distress of the people of the county of Tipperary. Mr. RONA YNE seconded the motion. He regretted that the distress to which the Hon. and Learned Memlier had ad verted, was not confined to the neighbourhood of Thurles, but had extended over to the vicinity of Clonmel. He would im plore the House not to defer relief, for while they might be deliberating on the policy of granting it, the poor creatures who required it might be starving. He conjured the House to grant relief while yet it could be of any efficacy. Mr. LYNCH regretted that the distress had extended to Galway. He did not call on the Government for a grant of money, but merely to give employment--to give useful em ployment to the people. Government never yet expended money in this manner that it was not afterwards repaid. There were places which he could mention, which at present yielded a revenue to the Crown, but which never yielded any until money was expended in the manner proposed by the motion of the Hon. and Learned Member for Tipperary. He would venture to appeal even to the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite if money so expended had not been afterwards amply repaid ? Mr. L ITTLETON did not mean to deny that distress to a very great extent existed in Ireland; but at the same time, he could not agree with the statements just submitted to the House. He considered that the Hon. and Learned Member for Tipperary had not (as we understood) exaggerated the evil in the one case, though the extent of that evil as to the other parts had been over-rated. It was not to be expected that the Government should be ready to make any great ad vances for the purposes required by this motion ' • but the best means of finding employment for th e distressed poor in Ire land would be to complete the works which were carrying on in the counties of Mayo and Galway. He objected to the ilGovernment interfering until it could be proved that the landed proprietors in the county of Tipperary had contributed their portion towards the removal of that pressure which was complained of. It was necessary, too, to obtain giants from the Grand Juries. Why did not the Grand Juries - of Tippe rary make a rate on the county ? He was not prepared to say that some small assistance might"or might not be afforded if a case were made out to justify such a proceeding, with a view to procure employment for the poor until harvest. Mr. HUME thought that his Hon. and Learned Friend • -to move for such docu ments as might be in ' - *his matter; and he would there . 'lidra wing his motion. LITTLETON, &C., it flo bf-'‘.._. xisieii66 hi •Ifrrett %. tot s agest t he t isoty i f NI, w . ,._ A ttht. a te* ii'O'rd§ tidni Ale, §titst , , rill— t6 ni;5116/1 44 a gliValf 0 ii; Mr: 3 -B A S :g l) haN fif in ti- s *X m! . l!ect i te l l S tto l i T a l :4 iri ' . . . Bill for the coneAatfon of tle,f:sseiSed Taxes CompOntioii B a Tll,____- . i .4,7 41 , ”)... L, , • - Mr. HUME expressea u.l r.v.ebg tp.a,t Ore vva'S' nb,' occaftirl rm h s o e an trusted thatu pin s a t yu e ic cl nhi cot nh vi if sefn tax , i t e h n e c e N h e o .a b w : e opuo for his reminding the Noble Lora of tug .q 4 4,/invialis 1 but nothe w g o il u e l d reliefbae f f g 9 r t t o do s tp a h y ee l s cl k : i l b .ct a l e t !I kig d f relief could be extended to the public, he hoped, that ncidogeterhnectertain circumstances, the Noble Lord would allow parties to continue their present rate of compositions to open new windows when want of air required it. It would be re recollected that the consideration of the matter had been post poned by the Noble Lord until the introduction of this Bill. His (Mr. Hume's) wish was to do away with the window tax entirely, but if that could not be done its operation ought to be made as little onerous as possible. Lord A LTHORP perfectly recollected that he had sug gested that at a proper period this subject should be brought under the consideration of the House ; but he was also pretty sure that he did not at the time give any hopes that he would concur in the proposition to which the Hon. Gentleman had referred. When this Bill should reach a Committee, he trusted he should be able to state The loss which would be the consequence to the revenue, by the alteration in the law which had been suggested. An Hoe. MEMBER begged 10 ask the Noble Lord whether it was his intention to take off the tax on apprentices ? Lord ALTHORP said it was not possible for him to an swer the question of the Hon. Gentleman at that moment. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. Mr. F. BARING having moved for leave to bring in a Bill to explain and amend the laws relating to the land tax, Sir C. BURRELL said a few words, and was understood to say that, at the proper time, he should suggest some amend ments in this measure. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill accordingly. SALE OF BEER ACT AMENDMENT BILL, Sir E. KNATCHBUbL moved the order of the day for the House resolving itself into a Committee on the Sale of Beer Act Amendment Bill. Mr. F. PALMER addressed the House at some length, but the greater part of the remarks of the Hon. Gentleman were inaudible in the gallery. We understood the Hon. Gen tleman to call the attention of the House and of the Hon. Baronet particularly, to the fact that there was no less than 100,000 persons employed in the Beer Trade ; and at this moment, when there existed a difficulty to find employment for capital, lie did not believe the Hon. Baronet was aware of the fact, that a sum of three millions was invested in this trade. Having attentively considered the subject, he would strongly advise the Hon. Baronet to withdraw his Bill, and introduce another, the principle of which should go to enforce stronger police regulations, and in that case, as far as he (Mr. P.) was concerned, it should have his best support. He would propose to raise the qualification to keep beer-houses in rural districts, as they were termed, and he would almost recommend the adoption of a 101. licence. By postponing the operation of the proposed measure, and by making various modifications in it, they would do an act of justice only by putting persons keep ing beer-houses on their guard. He could not satisfy himself that the measure proposed would answer the purposes required, more particularly if it were carried this Session. He would hes. the Noble Lord to recollect the atleantages which had arisen from the operation of the preient Beer Act ; to look at the increased consumption of malt, and the increased benefits which had resulted to the farmers generally. Sir E. KNATCHI3ULL said, that after the ample discus sions which had taken place on the principle of this measure, and looking to the circumstance of three divisions having oc curred upon them, he did not certainly expect at that moment any opposition to the motion for the Speaker leaving the Chair. He would not, however, trouble the House at that instant, because he hoped they would allow him to go into Committee. He trusted, however, that it would be satisfactory to the Hon. Gentleman who had opposed this Bill, and to the great body of the House generally, that he should inform them publicly (as he had the Hon. Gentleman privately), that as re garded the capital which was embarked in the beer trade, this measure would not in any great degree affect it, because he proposed to limit the operation of the Bill to all places where the population should not exceed 5,000 souls, so that all large towns would not be interfered with. Mr. WILK S asked whether it was meant, on the 17th July, in the dog days, to proceed in a measure of such vast impor tance ? They had had petitions from all parts of the country, demonstrating that the House was acting under a delusion in this instance.—( Hear, hear.) In proportion as they began to understand the subject, they were the oftener invited to sacri fice the interests of a vast number of persons who had embarked their property in the beer trade, relying on the proceedings of Parliament. The very concession which the Hon. Baronet had made as to the limiting the operation of the Act to places where the population did not exceed 5,000, showed what was the value to be attributed to the Bill. The effect of the exist ing Beer Bill had been to increase temperance amongst the people.—( A laugh.) Hon. Gentleman who laughed only proved that they had not attended to the documents which had been laid before the House. Mr. A. SANDFORD begged to ask the Hon. Bart. whe ther he meant to limit the operation of the Bill to townships, or whole parishes ? Sir E. KNATCHBULL was understood to say he meant to apply it to both; but this would be matter for future consi deration in Committee. Mr. GISBORNE was opposed to the Bill proposed. He would allow persons to sell beer, not to be drank on the pre mises, without licenses ; and he wished to see beer sold like any other article. He thought himself bound to vote against the Bill of the Hon. Baronet ; but he would support a mea sure founded on the principle which he suggested. If his Hon. Friend should divide the House, he should have his vote on this occasion. Mr. TENNYSON denied that any benefit had arisen from the present Beer Act ; so far from it, it had proved only an unmixed evil. When the proper time should arrive, he should be ready to propose a clause to the effect that no new licenses should be granted under the existing Act; and that a certain time should be fixed upon, from whence no beer should be drank on the premises. The question was, how they were to get over the difficulty in respect to the mass of property which was engaged in the beer trade. In retreating from the existing law, they were bound to do justice to persons keep ing beer-houses ; and he knew of no mode by which this could be done satisfactorily, but by mentioning a period (say April, 1826) at which the present Act should cease. This would give an opportunity to those parties to get out of their pending engagements. The present Bill was a source of un mixed evil. In the manufacturing districts the beer shops were merely truck shops, the masters making an agreement with their men, and giving them to understand that they would not be employed unless they used these houses. He need only refer to the opinion of all the Magistrates in the country to prove the evils of the present system, and he hoped the house would not interpose in this stage of the Hon. Baronet's Bill. Mr. HUME heard the opinion of his Right Hon. Friend with deep regret, because if his principle were followed up, he would establish monopolies generally. The gin shops he abominated, but why was the poor man to be deprived of his glass of beer ? He was the more surprised at the observations of the Right Hon. Gentleman the Member for Lambeth, see ing that he had voted thr e ughout for the Duke of Wellington's measure. Now he thought that there was no measure of the Wellington Administration which deserved more praise than the Beer Bill. They had a Comrajttee now sitting to inquire into the habit of drunkenness, and i e erhaps they would find means to do away with that " unmixet; evil " of which the Right Hon. Gentleman complained. Why . should they drive away the beer sellers, and compel the poorer. classes to resort to gin-shops ? He maintained that the great increase in the consumption of spirits during the last twenty yeere arose from the great duty on malt. The Hon. Baronet's Bill would go to drive the poor to gin shops, where they became demo, - alised• Let the Noble Lord take off one half of the malt duty-. —let him bring it back to 10s. 6d. When it was at that price-- when the population was not more than half what it now wail —there were brewed an infinitely great number of bushels of malt than there were now. Let the Bill now proposed be postponed till next year, in order to see what the Committee on drunkenness would do. Under these circumstances he trusted the House would pause, and upon consideration con sent to postpone the Bill until the next Session. This Bill would in fact be the same as if they were to put down all places of public resort, all clubhouses, save one to which all persons, whether Whig or Tory, should be obli g ed to resort. He trusted that the Noble Lord (Althorp) woulconsider that this was a bad law, and ought not to be carried into effect in its present shape, and without inquiry. Lord ALTHORP said that the Beer Bill was a question which had been in operation for two or three years, during which time the question had been more than once before the House, yet nothing had been done. It had been asked more than once whether it was the intention of Ministers to do any thing on the subject, and the answer was that they saw the evil, and were anxious to remedy it, but feeling the difficulty of doing so, he readily assented to the proposal made by the Hon. Baronet ( Sir E. Knatchbull). They had been told that repealing half the malt tax would remedy the evil. Another party called out for a repeal of half of the window tax, and then came the question as to which was to be repealed first.— ( Hear, and a laugh.) He had no doubt that the repeal of those taxes would be productive of benefit to the country; the people would be relieved, but then the Government of tie country must be carried on, and taxes must, therefore, be im posed for that purpose. He would readily agree with his Hon. Friend, if he found that his statements were borne out by facts. Thus far he would go with him, that he believed beer shops to be productive of little comparative harm in large towns, but that was not the evil complained of. The com plaint made, and justly made, was that much injury had arisen in country parishes, and the reore retired parts of the country. The magistrates, and respectable inhabitants of the country districts, complained of the demoralisation caused by the establishment of such houses. It was reet that the law was not sufficiently strong to put down the grievanet;, but the difficulty was to make the law reach the offenders. He Led supported the original B eer Bill under the impression th a t, hOwever, it might be f oun d f au l t w i t h during the first year, it woulduth mately be found to work beneficially for the public welfare. that opinion he found he was mistaken. He now wished to support this Bill, because he felt that it would only be brought into operation where the existence of- beer shops was found to be productive of mischievous consequences. With this im pression he had no hesitation in placing the Bill under the control of the Magistrates. Mr. WA RBURTON said that of the number of parishes in England, a large proportion contained less than 5,000 pa rishioners. In the larger parishes there might be some security, but in the smaller ones, where there were from 300 to 500 inhabitants, there was no remedy, and there were of these no less than 6,600. He opposed the bill in its present form. Mr. PEASE thought ting establishment of beer shops 'eel to do away with the great beer monopoly. He would and he w ou ld l end tense—. - into comm i ttee on the 17.11: make it w h at h e o;edieetst to ge and endeavour to his teeet intention to wished it to tes, teet oppressive to one class o. persons or an other, but a benefit and a relief to all.—( Hear. ) DARING said he had no intention of supporting the Bill on the ground of its giving a monopoly to the trade in ?Waif: or the trade in beer. He would go further and say that great fig' lad been the injury inflicted by the establishment of of these beer sitelle hi the country parts of England, he should still hesitate to put them sown if he thought their being sup-. pressed would lead to a monerialy in the trade in beer. It was said that in great towns beer shops did no injury, as large gin shops were to be found at every corner. This might be so, but when mention was made of clamour, and of jobs, who o was b it who made this clamour and sought these jixass, Was it that the Judges of the land did so soi?t that the Grand Juries and Magistrates of the country didgrowing nuisance, these parties, however, had complained of this nuisance, and was it th a t th e y were all mistsket • If they were not, and he was sure they were not, then it b i became that i House to put down the evil. If this were not done, could only he only look upon our rural population as a declining and de graded body of persons. Sir G. PHILLIPS thought that the beer shops in the 66 40 Majority —26 A The clause bei ng th en su bj ecte d to severa l verbal ainel W mendts, was agreed to. The House having resumed, Chairman was ordered to report progress, after which moved for leave to sit again. DIVISIONS. Lord EBRINGTON gave notice that to-morrow (I day) h e s h ou ld bring forward a motion with a v i ew to re scin the resolutions recently entered into by the House, with re spect to the new mode of taking the names of Members °P divisions. Lord ALTHORP observed that in that case it would V I better that the Noble Lord should take precedence of all ail business, as the matter was one which affect e d th e progress° the public affairs. Lord ALTHORP then moved that the o th er or d ers of h e C day be now read, which was agreed to, and the House adjourn' ed at a quarter past Two o'clock. , B IR THS. On the 17th inst., i n T av i stoc k -street, Covent-garden, Or!. Alfred ho Robins, of a son. Jo h ° the 16th; inst., at Tottenham, Elizabeth, the w ife of --. Hodgkin, jun., barrister-at-law, of a daughter. MARRIAGES. On the 17th inst., at St. Marylebon e Ch urc h, William ge nrl - . -, s second son of the late W. H. Hoare, Esq., and grandson If Gerard Noel Noel, Bart., to Araminta Ane, third daughter Lieutenant-General Sir John J. Hamilton, Bart., of Woodbrol" county Tyrone. DEATHS. O On the 16th inst., at the Mount House, Stock we ll, Rosa , - M P second daughter of the Right Hon. the Lord Mayor ; ageJ London : Printed and Published by 111URDO YOUNG at The Sun Office, No. 112, Strand. Ovr s he B4tu P Con p t;V teiv e d a 1431 Pm t writin g , Ni , l lll Allist er at the Ti Tie * at hey til, -A i pip e ( 11 1„Ntice A le) fl 't the I Usti ng, tl —l ed 4ttd th, if the th eY ar e l Nu t t ry. 111 tri k i Rh, hut One On. Do te n thtto vile ditto ole r , e ditto ulte ditto Oue ditzet" 1241 e ditto ; Thi t _o!e n , e e i vec initta r Pre/ SWIPI th e 41i ' al b. 2f ter, - urar at p ii ete p ur4 (Whi kon • Th . OD rVPthT ..e• e th: st 4 ,:loYal ] - 6441;4' 11 4: The Sehe Wll,o Lt;rt sps, Half ir i Capii