The Sun. — London, England, 1825-06-07 00:00:00

-in the first part of tee Bill, now before the Committee, limit ing-the effect of the permitted importation into this country from the Mauritius to its own colonial produce only ? Why not some e slich form of words be introduced in the early pelt of,the Bill? Mr. HUSKISSON felt, if the:Hen; Gentleman - world give, hiip leave to say so, that this was a mere technieal Objection.- . (Hear !)-He was -sure the Hon. Gentleman would recollect what were the grounds upon which, on a. former occasion i he Mr. Iluskisson) consented to introduce this_ ties a separate Inca sure, from- his general sill .which :then brought - in. e had intended at first to inclUdeethis'in that general - adeen the Hon. Gentleman himself, and others who were 'prie. cipally interested in the West India trade, earnestly requested that . the present measure might be introduced as a seperate a 74, specitic measure, .in order for its more - full •and effee- tualediecussinn.-(Hear, hear !)--Now, - the Hon; Gentlemen, . Must - lie very well aware that even in its present formodt must _ lieu shortly merge in the general provisionsof .that other Bill „which hespoke of. ROBERT.-GOIJDO:er, thought that nothing could be inOire unwise Or inexpedient than for the House to proceed to -_'pa a. Bill which ;lei-low appeared was not intelligible without ee refeeence to another Bill.that was not yet passed through an s., eilee - a . :ki'euse---( Hear !) • .. • - AIee.BRIGHT was bound etn.sn'Pneee, if the . Right Hon: Gentleman evotild.not put in • the few word*at had' been' etig geeted F e iehd ( Mr. Bernal); t he was at least prepared Witßistfier words to answer the same purpose. But if, eletteHight Irene. lientleman was not • so prepared, - let him aeleeei afford the l'House some clear and specific grounds for s:dee:ining to insert those which had been just suggested. As foe - waiting tU determioe Matters of this kind - in one bill, by the . . teraire ancLindeed by the . fate of another bill, (for it was yet - ime Cleteineinecle, he should - have 'thought that the House had had --ileesomenouglealeeady- to regret' the time and labour-Which it • cost teem. to remedy -bills that had been.passed in a similar in - "ralAelieernanner, 'without - desiring. to-add this to the Est.__ • --• •. :a - ;tr. e le tesKlsSei Ne wa s a lmost inclined -to say that the Iron. ekentle:nanewho had just spleen, appeared - *elle inclined .to nusstate what-had Sitleti from littekiseen.) r e e enietp• the ; elon. ti en denier. iinputeil to him a design to - Mislead. - -- -fiteeAloustenn e thie or. any, othet question; the IfouSeche -trusted, • -lieeeiltl'AQ -him the justice - to believe that he was quite, asinciipa e hie ate else--Hon. Gentlem a n himself, or-any other Hen-. Al ember, .vt • doing any such thing-(Mer I) --:To'him, he confessed, the Jaeguage of this bill Was perfectly explicit and` intelligible. Its . sireple object was to admit the 'Aleutians - sugars here, subject -te the satise duties that 'were- payable on'the - sante qualities of • eagare innaerted into Great Britain from our West India islands. to ehe importation- of foreign-.sugarsinto the Mauritius, and. ttgoogit the- Mauritius into our ports et home ; which Hon. Gene - e !_lemea opposite had rather eneleayOuredeomix up with this sim .pee question, that was,Ouite another and a • very different topic.. :e• ear !)-'the principle; however, .was still the for if wereallowed to be imported_ into Jamaica, thete could „ i eoreason, upon- . the principle of the. present Bill e why they s'.!;mldriot he allowed to be imported into the Mauritius also or why, if they were -to be. excluded fronothe Mauritius, they •. ...should not . be .-equelly excluded from the West Indies. The - : ,fact.chairever, was, that asifer as regarded his own view of the , --•queetion e aed aki fax as depended upon him, no foreign spears sheath', be.imported either, into the Mauritius or any. of the West India islands.--f Hear !)---That reservation it would undoubt edly be proper to make from the freedom oferade which it was - proposed- to extend. to our Colonies.:- - • , observed, that whathe wish-- the Right-Hon. Gentleman to consider was, what would be .-- the condition • of own proposition in the event of the former • Bill being thrown out? , Mr.IIISSKISSON, considering, • as -lie did, that the - Hon. Gentleman's wes an inconsistent and-groundless objection` to the_ Bill, could not undertake to defend it more particularly than • • Ate had done already t. and therefore he would beg leave to music that the Haase should report progress. Mr. WILMOT HORTON said, the language of this Bill . rosily struck him as being very clear; - It was to this effect .' " that all articles being the produce of the island of Maui tilts, or the gtowth thereof-and all .colonial produce, goods, and commodities that shall have been imported into the .island • of • Mitutieiuse-(ltear,ehear !)-shall be -put upon the same • footing as-all such colonial produce and foreign Commodities imported-into Jamaica under the. existing law."-(" Hear, hear !" from Alr. Bernal and Mr. Bright.)-And that existing :.laW prohibited the importation of foreign sugars.--(" - Hear, ,hear!" from Mr. Ellice.)-Why, then, it did - appear to him, thatthe plain .intention of this Bill was to declare, that •- the trade of the Mauritias should be put on the same footing -with that of Jathaica or any ether of the West India Islands. fientleman'ieohjection, however, was, that prohibit .-- ecfforeien goods,- . such as sugars, might, •under the present - terms of this Bill, tie imported into the Mauritius, and through the. Mauritius into the United' Kinedom, to the 'great detriment and peejudice of, .the West India produce. But he (Mr. W. Horton), must contend, that if that were the fact, then the same • e-ob.ervation must apply equally to ,lamaita.--:(Hear hear!)- . ".I.'a his own mind, however, tiro real purport of the Bill was sufficiently clear; but if the- Hen. Gentleman would propose _.--any form of 'wordsohat to his apprehension might make. that purport more clear and decided, they could very well be insert ed in, die if approved of by the Committee. : The Hen.. Gentleman would see that it was not for those who . were satis fied with the-terms of the - measure, as they stood, to. propese • e others in lieu of them. • Mr..II2RNAL was sorry that the Right Hon. the President - of the-Board of Trade had taken tip his remarks in the light lie _..sered to have done. He utterly disclaimed any thing like •rnete technical objections-. The. objections which he had taken • to-night, he certainly had Understood thateßight - Hon. Gentle man on a former night to have admitted. Ile still contended • that the security lie wished to haVe introduced did not exist in . this 11:11.; and thet, on the contrary, if the former measure e .shoulel.be last, the framing of this would be found to be eaces szvely defective. There was in its present condition this real . . defect-that sugars might be Imported from China, or fromelndia, into the -.Mauritius, anti from • thence into the United - Kingdom. , Mr. WILMOT HORTON' thought he could. suggest the introduction of a word or two that would - meet the objeetions of -,the Hon. Gentleman. .In - the first part - of the Bill, two points were stated with respeet to the importation to he allowed: first, all emils, produce, &c., beihg the growth of the Mauritius; and eecondly, allrgeods, colonial producee'ke., that shall have .been imported -into the Mauritius. 'And the defect complained I of seemed to he inthis-that in the-second, or latter part of the. „Bin, these two points were not specifically recapitulated, but only one of then]. -- If they - were -both recapitulated, the - Bill -would perhaps meet the objection.. . : Mr. HUSKISSON, being anxious to avoid all importations -of strgire *Om Cenada for example, and other Places, intended • to propose a clause, prohibiting altogether the importation of any foreign sogars through our - colonies. This of course Would - -apply - equally to the ilauritiu's and to the West India islands. -If, indeed, the other Bill so often alluded to in tles discussion, -sheuld.not pass, he should yet feel bound to oppose the impor tatioe of such sugars into the West Indies ; or all events, what ever might be determined oe with regard to the •West lie weultlOppiese their importation into the Mauritius. Mr. R.. GORDON thought that, in common fairness and carnlotire tbaoperatien of this specific measure ought to be .re sereined, until the West•lndies had had time to reap some ad vantage from the effect of the former Bill ee -say for a year . and a-half.' MrefELLICII Could not • concur with his Hon. Friends near him• in. their opposition to this Bill; and heentreated them . tint to threveneedlees inipeaments in the way of that liberal and ' enlightened coldniel policy. which Isis Majesty'i Government - were,now putqihig so honourably to - themselves and so 'betie - lidialy for this country. Mr. 7...W1L50N - could not concur in the opinion of -his Ilen e Frieod: who had,spielten -last. The West India Wands had -a claim tip On. iliTlSupport - of this Country, and •tie: were bound toomeet that claim. - It should be observed that the cases of the . Mauritius nitdelieWest India islands stood on very different grounds. The sugars from the Mauritius were not relit -b-platters, but byinerchants and supercargoes who bought them there as return cargoes for ships sent thither with goodie-fin- - the - island trade. - 1i hen the sugars were bought there; they'Werebenght, -therefore, and Came to England, under. the idea that they would not be allowed to be Imported for } l enge econsumption. • - 11.6 could not see why the Mauritius - merchants should - be put on a footing with the 'West -India ,• planters. Sir - ROBERT FARQUHAR knew very well that of late the.plantere of Mauritius had sent house their own sugars for sale in this cauntry.--e(Hear must also observe, that the Aleuritius had a very powerful claim on this country, in conse meence of the expectations that were held out to it during the hoit year,'Wheit the Mauritius Sugar Bill was read twice, and subsequently thrown out, news of its, progress having in the mean time reached the Maurithis via the Isle of France. Those eepectatioree had' been of course lamentably disappointed. . Mr. HUSKISSON, after what his Hon. Friend had just -stated; considering the great distresses to which this island had ..been en - frequently reduced by natural causes, such as violent -'storms and hureicanes, could not accede to the proposition of the Hon. 'Gentleman opposite. The ~'Mauritius planters had unquestionably met with very severe di s appointments, and it was very reasonable on this occasion to extend a boon of this kind to year he was met with this objection-th-at •somereetrictiorts- existed in the trade of the West 'lndia Is lands- that did - not apply •to that of the 'Meurititis. At the same time he did not attach any great weight to the objection, and now lie was, confirmed in the resolution, not of euper addinie restrictiorii - on - either, but of removing - them as much pussitele. from.both.-( II ear !) • Mr. -PLUM At ERdeniedelrateany pledge whatev& had been given by this 'Government In faineur - of the Mauritius. He conceived it would.he a very great act of in:aistice to admit the Mauritius to the advantage which was now claimed, as that settlement had, for a considerable number of years enjoy ed a the benefit of free trade. It .was fallacious to suppose that the introduction of the sugar of the Mauritius would not be prejudicial to the 'West Indies, when it - was admitted that there was a large surplus produce of those islands on hand. • • Mr. EZi.IGHT inquired whether it was the intention of the lion.. Gentleman toprevent the introduction of foreign sugars into the Mauritius? Mr. -WeIIORTON---" Certainly." • ' The House then resumed, and the. report was' ordered, to be received to-morrow. . . COLONIAL INTERCOURSE BILL On the motion for the third reading of the above Bill, -Mr-BA RING rose and inquired whether it was the intention' . of the Right Hon e Gentleman (Mr. Huskisson), as much anxiety was manifested on this subject, to make any specific statement to the House, as to the alterations which - he meant to peopose with respect to the whole of the colonial trade, taken as a general system ? 31 - rhHUSKISSON -said, it - was. his wish to put the colonial trade with this country on the 'same footing as the trade -be aween Great Britaio and Ireland. He had no difficulty in stating to. hie Hon. Friend, that he would on Friday next, if the House ivbuld allow s him, state the alterations which he had found it -necessary to propose with respect to our colonial trade, in don seqeoce of theapplichthinsthat had been made by different parties, WhoseintergetS Werd affected by the great change that had taken place with -respect to foreign commerce. • HUMEwished to know what the bill was which they were now - called .upon to read a third time. The - Motion was for the third:reeding of • the Colonial .Intercourse Bilt So far as .he knew, -there hwas no shell bill, co iionthie, before the flohse. Mi. HUSKISS - Qhf said, -the bill nOw before the House was the Colonial Intereourse - Mr, - RUM know of no.such bill,. - Mr. HUSK ISSON.—The title of the bill e t Bill for further reghlating the .trade of his Majesty's Possessions in America and the West Indies, and for the warehousing of .'oods therein." • - . Mr. HUME asked,. -whether, the proismions coptained in this bill 'were consistent with the principles which the Right Hon.. - Gentleman had formerly laid down on 'the subject of free. and on the propriety of supplying the .Colonies with What they might require - in the most economical manner? this.bill he: saw that a duty Was laid-on 'the importation of flour,. of fish, anti of bread; in. short, on almost every article which- these colonies stood *need of. If Alioistere wished to throw open the sugar trade of the Mauritius, to take off the. restrictions which were placed eh the : importatiOn of that. article, he could see no reason why, on t4' same principle of liberality, they should not remove the heavy ditties Which'were now payable in the West Indies on the importation of ogoe' e , necessaries. Mr. LIUSKISSON said it appeared to-blip that the provie sions of this Bill _were not only inconsistent, bitteevent e in perfect consistence with the-views which hehad laid dOWn. and .recom mehded to the House. There was not a single article wbieh, under this Bill, .might be imported into the West Indies„or paying a certain duty, that was. not obliged to pay a duty on entering the united kingdom. If, therefore e he placed the Co lonies on a footing with the united kingdom, 'he could „see no fair . gronnel for complaint. contended at he had redeem, ed his pledge, when, with respect to ail matters of commerce, he placed the Colonies in as favourable a situation as that in which Great Britain stood in her intercourse with Ireland. lie was. eurprised to have heard it said, on a former occasion, that the enactments now resorted to would only allow the Colonies to import fiddles hail fiddle.strings. The fact weseentireli the other Ivey, The Monies could import and-enjoy every thing, just-the same as the mother country, except that the duties paid by the - former were more moderate. The Bill was then the third time and passed. THE, DUKE OFCUMBERLANDIS ANNUITY BILL. TheCH[ANCELLOIt of the EXCHEQUER moved the Order of the Day. for the House resuming itself into a Com: mittee of the whole House on the above Bill. - On the motion" that the Sesseeotha,tio leave Mr. lIitOUGHA3I rose and observed,-that after what.had been expressed on this subject—after the. opportunities which had been given to every Gentleman who wished to ,state his opinions:in this measure of declaring his. sentiments, .and the reasons on which those sentiments wee a founded, the - less, he thought, that was said on this occasion, and -the sooner, tive better. Ile' would not, in proposing the amendment with - which he meant to conclude, trouble the House with Many words. The ground on which that amendment rested was so simple, so ' obvious, so.evident, that it only required to be stated in the shorteet possible way.- Tlmey were not now called on to consider this subject, to object to this grant, or to agree to it, on account of the adequacy or inadequacy of what was formerly votedee (Hear, hear !)--The question stood vpon its own sub stantive merits ; diode who thought the former grant too little, were met precluded from increasing it now in consequence Of the- :rote given on a _previous occasion.. But the mode at - present _taken to effect that objeetwas one of which Ire. never -could. approve. • The liberal, .frank, candid, and hcinesteViy of.proceeding - was, to move distinctly for an altera tion of theformerevote,—(Hear !)—No attempt bad hitherto been .madelo alter that vote of the House: If any Gentlemap, thought it aim improper vote, why not move that it should be rescinded ?—(Hear.!.)—lf any Member were of that opinion, - let him, in God's name, ,stand up and say so.--e(Ilear!) lie .did.. net. belieye there - was a Gentleman in the House who en tertained any such opinion,—( Hear !) —The way which he.had pointed out was the fair, manly, and honest course for those to adopt, if such there were, who felt anxious:th haVe the former vote reecinded.—(llehr, hear !)—But hewrsuld say, let no man vote for the Duke of . Cumberland, by a si le-wind; in opposi tion to his former vote.-h(Heaxl)—Let him, if he could, get rid of that vote, in a plain, fair, honest, and straightforward way; but let hiin not, bye voting _a grant for the child of the Duke of Cumberland, negative his former vote, by making an additional - provision for the Dukeof Cumberland himself. — (Hear !)—lle felt that he should be wanting in the ditty which he owed„ to that House, to himself, and .to -his country, if he 'did not, on this occasion, and on all future occasions, express these setimente. He should, therefore, move, ". That all-the words of the original motion, after.the word that' be omitted, for, the purpose of inserting the following words—' this House will, on this day six months, resolve itself into the -said Come mittee."' - (Hear !) Mr. COKE thought it was most preposterous to come down to the House and demand an annuity cf 60001. for tire Duke of Cumberland's child, when it was quite evident that the grant was intended-for the Duke himself.—(Heer,hear !)--He looked upon this poposition, especially .when he considered by whom it was chiefly supported, as a direct - insult on the House.— ( Hear, hear !)—As a representative of the county of Norfolk, he felt it right to raise his voice against this grant, whichhe was convinced was highly displeasing to the public at - large.— The Duke of Cumberlaed had, he conceived, an abundant pro- vision without this additional 6009/. a year. This was his most. decided' opinion ; and he thought the House would - actemoet unwisely if they - agreed to the vote. If they did, he certainly must consider the present as the most corrupt House of Com mons that ever sat, and one which ought to be reformed as soon a.. 4 !) . Mr. DAVENPORT considered that it would be totally in consistent with the vote which had been given she years ago to support the proposition now beforethe House. The child, who I had been so much spoken of in the course of these discussions, did not • wear, a cloak long enough to hide the real object.he (Hear !)—He could not, _however, -avoid complimenting those wikehad brought this question forward, on - their skill in military tacties;When he saw • them placing titer infantry in the front of the battle:—(Laughter.) . • • • Mr. 'II. said, his view of this question perfectly, coincided with that of the Learned Gentleman who had moved emendment..- --If this e vote were agreed s tp, the could. look upon such a proceeding in no other light than as a retraction of the - vote which was given spine years since in the case' of the Duke of Cumberland. Wit-respect to. the vote to the Duchess of-Kent, he entirely-approved of it. The Fortner provision was 'extremely inadequate. There was a-dignity, ofEmbility, an amenity-in her manners; which acquired the respect and esteem of every person. To . that grant he . gave . his most hearty concurrence. The present vote he ihould certainly Oppose. doing so, hemust say, that. he felt .a -great degree of cacy, because he was actoated by motives' which he was under the necessity - of witholding7 from the House- - -motives, the grounds of which , he could - nor, with propriety, develope to I those whom he •now addressed. The Duke of Cumberland,, if he' chose to settle abroad, had a revenue of 18,0001. a year, which was fully equal to 30,000/. hi the-country where he re sided. .If the. Royal Duke had any reason to prevent him from . returning, a grant might be made for -the education of his son in this country. But in that case he certainly. would not-agree to the amount now proposed. 2,0001. or 3,0001. wyear would properly lodged and edue . be sufficient to have time- younpeprincee cated ; for he could not agree with the Hone Member for Aber deen, that 100/.'a-year- would be sufficient.—(A laugh)-- - -But to give 0,0001. a-year,evidently - by a'sideewind, to the Mike of Cumberlaestl, he certainly - never-would -Consent to. • Mr. J. BENETT congratulated the House and the coun try on the bust of indignation which this graht had excited from the other side of : time House. When he saw -gentlemen of diffe rent political 'sentiments uniting on a question of this nature, it excited' some doubt in his mind (so we understood the Hon. . Member) as - to the necessity for Parliamentary Reform.. • -Sir .G. IVARRENDER said, that:-nothing but a sense of duty could have impelled- him to stand forward on this occa sion.- Whenhhe grant to - the Duke of Cumberland was befOre - the House • some years ago, he thought illustrious individual was very, hardly. dealt with,. Much obloquy appeared to. be levelled at this Royal. Duke; but he would not heworthY of a seat in that- House; if he did not say, 'oh his honour and nen steience, that Many - of those repreSentations and accusations which had been industriously circulated through the most remote. parts of the. country with reference to • this Royal personage, were totally destitute of any foundation whatever. The Duke of -Cumberland and his Duchess enjoyed a degree of domestic comfort and hapnitea laugh)—which few indi viduals could boast of.— (Hear, hear !)—ln depriving the Duke of Cumberland of this grant; -they drew a most unpleasant dis tinction between hire and the other Royal Dukes. He would contend that a grant of this kind ought not to proceed on'the individual merits of the. party. They should recollect 'the. lofty situation to which he was born—they should consider the necessity of providing foe .him and ids family in a man ner. befitting that situation ;' and, considering these circum stances, he was prepared to say, that it was the duty of the House - m. accede to Oda' proposition. The income which the Duke of- Cumberland received was quite inadequate to the expences of his establishment. Numerous appli cetions were daily "made to hint, and large sums were 'an naally expended in charity. He would ask, was it or was it not, desirable., that a young Prince, who was likely to . conic to the Throne.' of- England, should be properly edit , cated ? Would the House, trout any feeling.of irritation, prevent hint .from - being educated here under the eye of his • lather? He was . Sore it was not in accordance with the 'generous feelings of the House of Commons to . separate a father front his child. NlTOuld they teach the young Prince, as his first lesson, that it was his duty to remain separated . from his parents? lie thought they would not. lie thought they would make the neeessary provision the the education of the child Under the eye of the - father. In Stating this, he - had 'only discharged the duty which he owed to the country, to the 'House, 'and to fha Royal Fainily. . Sir .T. SE BRIG HT said he Would put the question on its. true ground. It was neither more nor less than to give to his ' Royal llighi . mes . the Duke of ,Cumberland a certain sum. of money.—(hear, hear!),-And instead of introducing the sub ject in • the way which had been adopted, it -would have been much more creditable - to .the Right- lion. Gentleman if be' brought it forward On its plain and obvious ground. -He had: been informed that the Duchess ofCumberlandreceived 3,000/. a year from the King of Prussia. This, together -with the. income Which Wasalerivedfrem this country, appeared to him `to be 'amply sufficient for the establishment of the Royal Duke. It was very painful to say any thing that might appear . disrespectful towards theelioyal Duke.; hut it-was a well known fact, that a neen - .could not' go into society of any - kind or de scription in this country; without hearing-remarks on the con 'duct of that Royel s persoiniee. did not think that the-con 'duct of any Prince of-the blood could be adduced as a sufficient pica for -refusing a nr - oper maintenance; but when Ministers' came forward and demanded a great deal more than appeared to be strictly.necessarye. then he -confessed that the condtiet of the •indiiithial would weigh., geeatly -with him in granting or refusingit.. Ile was astonished at the majorities, small' as they. were; by which this question had hitherto been carried.—(llear !) —HoWever attached Gentlemen might be - to the Royal ..Family, that attachment • could not excuse .an absolute waste of the Pablie money. It w:tts a waste, not only bad in itself, but it became worse under - the .pecullar circumstances of the case,_ - (11ear!)—TheeRoleal Duke .appeared befOre them like a man' applying for relief to a bUtly of . courtry Magistrates—like an individual - who requested the 'parish; in finyn4 :pooppls,: to enable hint to maintain hiS own child. e (Hear! ) • • -The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUE'R said, he would briefly state the reasons which induced .him to support this mea sure. it was not on the ground that the Duke ol' Cumberland was 'inadequately provided for on a former occasion that he had deemed it necessary to introduce this Bill, and he was perfectly prepared to defend the measure. on tlie• ground on. which he really had brought it into Parliament. If the circumstances of the case were. at preSent the same as those which existed when - the former vote was }imposed, then any proposition to grant the . Royal. Duke that which had been refused on - two previous oc- Casions,'might have justified the harsh. language and severe re. Preach which had been indulged-,in by the lion. Member-.for Norfolk (Mi. Coke); and which was reiterated by the Honour able illember foil-leettOrdshire (Sir J. Sebright.) But• were not the grounds at- the present moment perfectly dissimilar ? He • contended, aud lie belieyed. every unbiassed - man would agree with hint, that the case was entirely altered. Parliament had given to the Royal Brothers of the Duke of Cumberland, a certain annual income oh:account _qf their marriage, and in .the ,expectatiOn that theyewould have families. A like allowance Was refused to -the - Duke of Cumberland. Sin cc that period, it was said, the Duce of Cambridge has had two children, and yei he had - not .aekett. for any increase „of income. And Why was that ?. 'Because the 114,00/. per annum Which -Were granted to hint was considered to be sufficient to maintain him properly in his elevated situation. That large sum was granted to hint, not merely because he had a wife, hut because there was a probability, .of his having children. The .Duke. of .Cum berlend also merriel—he had a sod, and he naturally wished to be placed in the e same situation as his Royal brothers were.- -He entirely concurred in the principle that it would hot be a proper mode of proceeding if Ministers came down to went and asked tor a grant of this description, Merely on account of individual elliteacter.- e -(llear, hear!)—lle thought, it was proper, On ACOUnt. of their exalted rank, that those Royal per sonages should be-placed on, the same footing; and it slit} appear to hint _that ie would. be an act of the most gross disrespect, if the ideuse of_Conintons said, `e We .call on_ your Majesty to treat two of your Royal brothers -:with. particular marks of esteem, and mgast a. reflection on the third."—(Hear contended that_the pretient . proposition - was no outrage on -the feelhigs of 'the e ceuntrye e -(Heer !)—He denied. that . any -improper attempt was. made to lead. the House to retract utt ,former decision, when circumstances called for the measure cow 'under consideration.—( Hear ! )—Although the lion. Metieber for Hertferdeleire did not place his opposition .altogether on. the .ground of the personal character of the Duke of Cumberland, yet-his Hon.. Friend the Member for Surrey (Mr. - 11. Snerinet) Mei done So. .Now, amidst :all. the hints and insinuations which had, fronetlate to time, been-thrown out on this subject, he never had been able, for the soul of him, to discover on what point it. was that Gentleman really ihunded their opposition.— (Hear!)—lle could perceive no - circumstance which could induce the House to refuse this grant, which might not alsa • be' put fitment as ari argument rot depriving the Duke of Cumber. land. of - that income'. which he at - present enjoyed ; or Which might not be made'z ground for reducing the grants which had been voted to the 'Dukes of Clarence and Cambridge. In his view of the qucetiOn; the- House would be acting unreasonably, nay, he would say ithjuetly, if they did not'agree to the propo sition.—(llearl-) Sir J. SE BRIGHT said, his expression was, that where a necessary provision was called for, he would net look to the per sonal conduct of -the individu a l, but that Where more was de manded he certainly would. .Mr. 'l'. WILSON deekued he would vote - for the'grant, on the ground of his entire cOnfidence in the Government. .Here was a Prince horn, in whom they must all tate a deep interest, and he conceived that every means should be afforded for his proper education. -- The - House then divided, when the numbers were-- . - For the Amendment • - - 113 Againstit - 143 - • Majority - -30 On our re-admission to the'thillery, the-House being then in a Committee on the 13i11, we found " 141 r. BROUG II ►lYl nn his legs.---He said that there was upouthe face of the Bill an evident inconsistency; inasmuch as it pretended to have oneobject, and was, in tact, calculated to accomplish anoth-er. It•propoSed to - provide for the.educa don of the Prince of CuMberland, and • it secured an annuity Of 6,000/. to the Duke of Cumberland for his life. The Hon. Baronet Charles' -lorbes), Who had addressed the House at a period when, of all others, it • was most convenient for those - who favoured the _Duke of' Cumberland to express their opinions--(the Hon. Baronet sPoke after the gallery had been cleared, and before thediyision took place), had thought that sufficient justice cot:id:not be done to his . Royal Highness. - - He was paid up all -the arrears of the annuity which tiAe House•on aformer occasion .refused to grant him. Perhaps, in his desire to perforen that, which he thought an act of tardy justice, he would wish to make up for the cesser of so many yeafs by increasing the annuity to - 12,0001. The Duke, he had - no .doubt, would; without hesitation, accept the Hon. Baronet's generous offer, and nothing, he dared say, comd be more grateful to his feelings. But the'Ministeis were not afiected . by the enthusiasm which had so far led away the Hon. Baron e t : Th e y p r oposed that the annuity should only be paid henceforth, and that it should be continued from this time as long as his. Royal Highness's life should last. There was a provision in the second clause, most inartificially tacked on, Which limited the payment of the grant_to the Duke on con dition that the Prince should live in England during the period of his education, •for which it was to•provide, unless the King should give him licence to reside abroad. This was the notable manner in' which the fret - hers of this Bill had introduced it to the House. He, however, wished to put the bilSinesvpOn a fair and intelligible ground, and of giving to the Committee an opportunity' of doing properly and fairly that which it was pre tended this Bill was tonccomplish. It there was any man in the House who thought that the income of the Duke of Cumber land did not permit him to educate his - son in a proper. manner, and at his own expence, heliVlr. Brougham), whatever might be his own notion on the subject, would meet that opinion. He would say then, give tile Duke the means of educating his son, but let it be upon Such terms as shall ensure to the people that their money is laid-out for that purpose for which they have granted it. - Give to. the. King, the, head of the Royal House, and to whom every member of-the Royal Family:must he an object of.the nearest interest, the poser of directing the appli cation 'of the'suni which is voted for this purpose. - Let that sum be quite ample,. nay, more than enough, for the education of this very young Prince. Let this little bOf of six years old have 3,oool;per annum devoted to the i.hymen't of his education, but let the King have the care of seeing that this sum be wisely and• properly laid cut. Thus the Committee would do what they pretended, and which (though he thought it wrong) he would not oppose. Thus they would enable the Prince to be ' educated,. and they would provide a proper authority—that of ene-King—to superintend his education. The Ministers, who, as they were responsible for the King's acts, might, he trust ed,. see to the application of the -money, and the House Would receive a satisfactory security that the Duke of :Cron. berland would not spend the money in - .any manlier .he might chaise, and Over which they could have no contronl: .If - this were .net a direct and liberal course of proceeding, he did not know what could be called so. It had, besides, this recom mendation, that those who thought with him might agree to it, while those w h o th oug ht th a t th e so n o f the Duke of Cumber . land ought to be educated at • the public evenee, would be enabled to give':elfect to that opinion without violating - any con - stitutional principle. He would therefore move, as an amend ment in the bill now before the Committee, that the sum to be granted for the education of the Prince of Cumberland, son of his Rtiyarilighness the Duke of Cumberland, should be're duced from 6,001)1. to 3,0001. per annum, and that it should be paid to the 'King instead of to his Royal Highness the Duke of Cumberland. Sir C. FORBES rose, having been so pointedly alluded to by the Honourable and Learned Gentleman, for the purpose of justifying the expressions Which had occasioned that allusion. He had said, and he now repeated, that what he had to -address to the House . pri this subject, he was more desirotis,of saying to the house than .to the newspapers.—(A laugh.)—He appealed to the House whether, if this mode were generally adopted, there would .not be shorter speeches, and the business would not be sooner, and more satisfactorily disposed of. If, however, the lion. and Learned Gentleman meant to insinuate that he (Sir C. Forbes) Sought an opportunity of saying, when the doors were closed, that which he would not venture to say in the face of the country (and if the Hon. Gentleman did not 'mean this, he could not tell what he meant), he (Sir C. Forbes) would tell him that he was as much incapable of any such arti, fire a + the Hon. and Learned Gentleman himself. More than thiM he felt it was not necessary for - him to say. The Hon. Bart. proceeded to say, that he thought the arrears from the period of the House refusing the grant, which would have made the al lowance of the Dake of Cumberland the same as. that of his !loyal Brothers, ought to be paid up. He concluded by say- - ing, that this opinion was formed upon pul.dic grounds, and I that he had no personal knowledge of, nor had ever been intro duced to. the Duke of Cumberland. _ _ - _ The - CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said that when he had stated at the ,commencement of this subject that it was bona fide the intention of the Government that the edu cation of the Prince.of ,Cumberland should be carried on in England, and . that the money to .be granted should be applied to.tbatpurpose, he had expressed also his willingness to agree:to the introduction of a clause whick should secure the accomplishment -of those intentions. Notwithstanding the ob servations of the /ion. and Learned Gentleman upon. the man.: ner in which this clause had been framed,•it was intended,'and, as ho believed, well calculated to effect that purpose.. As he had no intention, whatever the Hon. and Learned Gentleman might think,, to grant; by means of a side wind, an .annuity • to , the 'Duke :of Cumberland, it would not he inconsistent with, the intention he had then expressed-to confine the proposed grant- to the minority of , the. Prince.—( Hear !)—But it was im possible for hint to agree that the direction of the Prince's _education .should be under the controal -of the King instead of his -father. 'He could not think, if it was at all fitting to - give the money, that it should be imposed as a condition to the grant that the finhershould haVe no interference in a matter of such deep interest to. him. ThiS would be the effect of the amend ment of the lion. and Learned Gentleman and if this were to be done, it would be better not to give it all.—(Hear, bear!) — With regard to the.Hon..and Learned Gentleman's propositiOn that 3,00 01 . should be granted instead of 8,000/., he was quite aware how difficult it must. e to demonstrate to the -House that 6,000!. were necessary for the education of the prince,—(a laugh, and cries of " hear !), , and so it must be of any other sum. it could. not be expected, if the prince was to be educated in EnglancLand his parents might, perhaps, reside abroad,- that he should not sometimes go to. visit them. It could not, there.' fore, be the wish of the House, that the.grant to- be allowed for his education should. be so small as not to allow .the possibility .of such a visit. Be had,,as he had stated, no objection to con fine the grant to the minority of the prince . ; . but he could never consent to deprive the• Duke of Cumberland of that natural and lawful right which he possessed,' of directing the education of his own children.—(Dear !). .lir.. 11. Sr:DINER disclaiined any intention of casting it'll . - -putationsnpon the Duke of Cuutherland, and .supported the amendment., Mr: - BROUGHA - said he was somewhat 'surprised at the objections of the Right Hon. Gentleman to the proposition he had suggested,' of giving to the King the superintendence of the education of the Prince of Cumberland. This Wes no more than the - law had already given to him. As the chief of -the Royal Family,. he was entitled to the care of the persons of those who were hereafter, it might be,, to becoMe the heirs to his throne : this had been held to be the law by the decision of ten out of the twelve Judges - in Sergeants'-ltm-hall, • in 'the case of Fitzgeorge's children • and / George IL, and that de- • cision had been acted upon. The -late Ring interfered upon this - ground with the education of the late Princess Charlotte ; and his Present Majesty had, at. a subsequent period, insisted - upon exercising the same power, on the authorityof this very .: . case, Which was :opposed to the Ordinary'. principle of law; by 'which the care of the education of children was given to the mother rather than to the father. That power which he proposed to give.the King by. the present .bill was therefore no more than what lie at present possessed ; but the House might grant the money upon the condition that his Majesty would exercise that right. lie prayed the 'House to consider for a moment what. was, the avowed object of this grant. It was that an adequate, nay, a splendid, provision, should be made for the educa tion of the Prince, in such a manner as suited his rank, and the probability of his one day filling the throne of this Country. lie called upon the House to-reflect, therefore, whether that object could not be accomplished-in a manner more - regular, more constitutional, and more safe than was now proposed, by giving the money which was destined for this purpose into responsible instead of irresponsible hands— by it to the Ministers of the country (for giving it to 'the King was to Make them answerable for its -application), who could not:divert one shilling of it from Its proper purpose. Those 31inisters could not devote it to the payment of the debts which the Duke of Cumberland might owe,. nor to any annuities with which he might be charged, but they would be answerable with their heads for the -honest application of it to the purposes: for which it was intrusted to them: Was this. not a more safe, consistent, and constitutional means, than -that which the Chancellor of the Exchequer asked the House to adopt, and by which the money must fall into the hands of the Duke of Cumberland, who was living abroad, and,who, : when once he had obtained possession of it, might do whatever he would with it. It was truethat we were flush of money—that we had. an inconvenient abundance of wealth—much more, indeed, than we knew what to do with._ The country was in a plethoric state, and the House was obliged to resort to frequent and copious bleedings to keep it in health. We had-now before us a - golden opportunity of disposing of some part of our burdensome riches, by granting to a little boy, six years old, 6,0001.• a year for the payment of his education. He admitted the relief which it would be to the country to get rid of this money. He was quite alive to the importance and advantage of this measure; but still he did not Wish to see it carried too far.—(baughter.)—The House . was about to grant to. the Duke of Cumberland 6,0001. a-year - for his son's edu • cation. The Duke resided abroad; he might receive this sum, anti might not apply one shilling of it in payment for the edu cation, This was what the Committee was abour to rush into. The case he hat supposed might happen (for miprcivision was to be made against kt); and the House would then be called upon to vote in the contingent accounts . , whatever might be due on account of the Prince. What he proposed was; he thought, more reasonable—he was sure it was more safe: It would make the Ministers. responsible for the: education of the Prince, and would, at least, prevent the possibility of any part of time grant being diverted from the sacred purpose to Which the . Legislature had devoted it, while the power of the Crown , would be left exactly where it now was. With respect to - the observations of the Hon. Baronet (Sir - C. Forbes), who acknow ledged that he had rather have chosen to address the House during the absence than in the presence of strangers, all that he (Mr. Brougham) . meant to say was, that it was much more con venient for the Duke of Cumberland and his claims that they should be mentioned in privateihan in public.—(Hear, hear l/ Right Hon. Friend, the Chancellor of the Exchequer, was so fair and liberal, that he did not see upon what grounds the purposetiHi ae o k u l u r e se ut C c iki o: ei oNI s mf t d rh N oe r tr e h i gie t N ' e t r i as s i l en e i ctt andcchaoatnidsot consent ot t t a ft tioentdthi order er h sd a oe t rir th oto e f d to e' intro duction of any words which would suffice to render that inten tion more clear.—(Hear 1)—It was difficult, perhaps impossible, to say what degree of confidence or distruSt was to be exerciSed towards the father in that child's education, without entering tksworaeeai:doso.ifhns oecctiul ewlural Cumberland, si ifni t o: h r, nnedgn: proposition made by hi s into a subject which was at once painful and delicate, or exa mining the opinions of those who thought that time money granted might, in passing through that which must be allowed ; to be the natural channel, be prodigally thrown away. It would be inexpedient, on all accounts, to do this. The persons who . th oug h t t hi s must g i ve effect to their opi nions by their vote,-for nothingin the course of this dis cussion could be expected to turn them. But it. was at the same time not to be expected that those wino avowed no such distrust of the Duke of Cumberland,—nay, more than distrust, dislike, nay, more than dislike—persecuting detestation, should -conform to the opinions of others .-( Hear, hear,!)_ What might be the grotirts for those hostile feelings, he could not pretend to say, hut those who voted for taking the education of the son out of the hands of his father, and for diminishing the amount of the allowance, were only bringing to the test the opinions which had been so lavishly avowed towards the Duke of Cumberland. -- The justice of those opinions was not a fit subject for discussion here. Every man must act as he pleased, and it was in vain to attempt to combat by argument what had not been fairly brought forward as substantial objections. - Beyond the concessions which the Government had alma) , made, it was impossible to go. His Majesty's Ministers had no right to inflict upon the Duke of Cumberland an oppro brium, which, if he could have deserved, they would have forgot ten their duty to the country in bringing his name before. the House.—(Hear, hear!)—So far as security for the due appli cation of the money went, the House had a right to require ; but to enter into the subject beyond this, would be most un justly to stigmatize the Noble Person at() was so intimately concerned in it.—(Cheers.) Sir C. FORBES said a few Words in explanation: - The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the Amendment • Agaihst it - • Majority - • The SPEAREit being again in the Chair, Nr. BROUGHAM. rose just to submit, that whatever might be the case with respect to the decisions of the House, it would be no breach of privilege - to .comment upon the conduct of a Committee.. Then, having a right to observe on 'what passed, he did feel himself bound certainly to declare, that there never had been a vote. in his• opinion passed by any Committee' less calculated to raise that Committee-in the estimation of the coun try, than that which had •just- declared in favour •of giving 6,000/. a-year more to the Duke of Cumberland. For it was nonsense to talk of this-grant being made to the Prince of Cum berland,—it was a gift directly to the-Duke—an allowance• not of 6,0001. annually, for the. - education' of the son, but of 5,0001. annually for the expence •of the - father. This was the true state of , the- transaction, and the only light. in'which the people of England would look at it. They would be aware that a Committee of the House of Commons, with its eyes fully. opened by discussion, had, in its deep respect for the.DUke of Cumberland—in • its esteem for his high public and private character;-an esteem, no doubt perfectly well . grotinded,' but in which they themselves did not entirely share—that it !..id preferred granting that Illustrious Prince 60001. a year-that was to gay, 50001.: for his own use, and Perhaps 10001 , for the education of his son—to giving him 30001. a year only,. which, after paying for that same education, would have added two thousand pounds a year to his existing income. Now , for himself, he wished the Committee joy of• Its vote with all heart ; and he hoped that the Members would live long—that was to say, the rest of the present session, and all the next. , ---ta take the benefit of it. , When, at the expiration of that times too, they returned to_ their cocstituents---be meant such Of them as had any constituents—(Hear, ancl.great laughter)- r he . hciped that they would still further reap the fruits 'of . their glorious triumph that evening, over constitutional principle, 'common , sense, consistency, and honest, plain, direct, and manly feeling- One word more only, upon what had fallen from a Right Hon- GenL opposite, who, in the waradh of his eloquence and the weakness of his case, had said something about a feeling of per sonal rancour on his (SI r. Brougham's) side the House towards the Duke ..of Cumberland. As regarded his,. own feelings he would merely observe, that in all his life he had never hau the` slightest conimunication, either one way or the other, with the illustrious individual in question.. On a former ()cession, go far from entertaining any desire to do or say that which might be unpleasant, it had been his fortune to differ from. several Gentlemen -on his Own • side the House"; among ' others from the Right Honourable' the President of the Board. of Controul, who then sat on that side; 'and to :have exhibited at least so 'much toleration as totha 7 ve objected to•the introduction of the Duchess of Cumberland's 'name in the way in which it had been given to the public, and to have defended the contluct of that. lady as far as it was kpos - vri to him. In doing this, he had been led of course by no,personal motive, but merely from a sense of what should properly be the feeling of an - assembly of English Gentlemen towards any and every illustrious female: but, for any supposed quarrel between the Duke of 'Cumber land and the Whigparty, .the House had been reminded that the Duke had once joined the." NO Popery" cry, and that be had " never changed his opinions." Why, the fact was, that his Royal Highness had so. completely altered his feeling to' wards the Whigs, and had shown so much courtesy to several Gentlemen distinctly introduced. to .him as of the Opposition party, that there were Honourahle Members sitting round him (Mr. Brougham) who actually.felt a doubt how far, if any per so.tial question arose with respect to. the Duke of cuinberland they could, pleasantly, take part in it. From is sense of public duty, therefore, it was, and certainly not from any private ran cour, that 'he opposed the vote before the Hotie ; thinking, as he did, in his conscience, . that it was the most absolute and unjusti fiable job that he had ever seen attempted. In ease the iloue should still feel inclined to take a more prudent •.course Than it wag no proceeding in; and togrant the 3,0001. a-year, subject to the controul of Ministers, he , now gave notice that, on - tire coming up of the report, .he would move an aniendmentto - th t effect. In saying this, however, he desired distinctly to - ail . ° c that he considered the vote as - unneeesSary . altogether, and he should certainly oppose it in tote, in all the other sPA.: through which it had to pass. - • • . • foe Mr. T. ''-ILSON' complained that ' the Mori; MernbeL,i. 1.114 152. \Vinchelsea acted unhandsomely in throwing - dirt at .tlte' o f mittee. If he thought that that Hon. and Learn-ed Membe t,, those who sat with - Juin, monopolized all the talent and P e i triotism•of the House, he might perhaps feel inclined, to , T i p attention to them ; but as it was, he felt perfectly justiile a the vote which he had given. • • - Mr. BROUGHAM protested that in what he had said had no way-alluded to the Hon. .31eniber; who he did firl.'!,l e believe tO be the most wise and patriotic Member of the the Hothouse on which he sat. • The er Orders of the Day were then disposed - of, and tb .. Muse adjourned at - II ALi -PAST Tw El .V.E . CLoeK. ' PARLIAMENTARY PROCEEDING • lIOUSE OITCOMMONS. Lunce, - 6' -die Junii, 1825. • MESSAGE from - the LoriDs—That they. have agreed 0 , 6; New Streets Act A Mendinent - Bill ; • Itos-shire Roads lad and Mon tgom ery.Toor Will, without am end men t. Roabs--Ardglass—Bill reported,. Report to lie on the to e , Glasgow and Parkhead—Further time granted to snak e port. ' • . . r CANALS—NWesternShip—illinutes of the Evidence to lie on the table.'- Kensington -Petition for a Bill referred t° Committee. 013(1 ESTATES—A'Gregor's, - Cadogan s s, Earl of Oadogan of .111evrick'sf—Bills read a third time, and passed. Ea r ...., Radnor's, 'Lauder'S, Clare Hall (Cambridge), and Valk,ig Bills read a second time, and committed. Paddington --P read a first time. • ' . itt iri Co IVIPAN IE S—Atlantie Steam Navigation, and Hibernian " 11 ing—Bills . reported, to be ingrossed. Shaw's iVater-4. 1.. read a third time. and passed. • - ncl o ' IMP' , OV . EME NT —Brighton—Petitions of Inhabitants, 8 - be _ I.'ilstone, again St—to lie oft the tabld; Bill reported, toi ingrossed. . • NATURALIZATION—DC Buck's Biallnsdrecaodman2liatte• RECTORY—St. 'Martin (Birmingham) •. '1:I THES—St, Plave(Hart-street) CHELSEA GLtTIE LA.wns P °on RAT E—Henley'-on-Thames INcLosunEs—White Ladies Aston (Worcester) COLONIAL INTERCOURSE ALIMENT or PRISONERS (Scotland) POSTAGE—Columbia _ Bills read a third uY and passed. COTTON MILLS • . . n st/ BRISTOL TOWN DUES REGULATION —Petition from Taunton, nO - lie on the table. me i " ,t WATE RIV 0 R eriek---Bill reported, to be CompillaTioN_LAws 7 -Two Petitions from Dublin, ao - --refeired to the,Sele6t ComMittee. . . IJUIVERSITIES POLICE • ell ' COLONIES TRADE , COURTS or JUSTICE (Scotland) PASSAGE VESSELS REGULATION A to 1)° ASSIMILATION OF CURRENCY Bills, as amended , LOWLAND CHURCHES (Scotland) i . printed. - ' LUNATIC ASYLUMS (Ireland) Bills read a first time'. b p BANK TOKENS (Ireland) BunnLE ACT AMENDMENT—BiII read a. first tial c i : .. read a Second.time on Friday next, and to be p r inte 13i1 9 , COURTS OF COMMON PLEAS AND KING'S BENCI!q; rI fo to abolish the sale of Offices in, and to . make provls o A 0 .. ) Bills read a second, til the Lords Chief Justice; read ,a first' time, to. be. re .- cond time. on Wednesday next, and to be printed. .-,-. NOTICES OF 'MOTIONS FOR THIS DAlt,;,ool I. Mr. Sykes—Reduction of the Duty on, Soap and ' Candles. 0 C • . - . 2. -Sir•Frantis Burdett--Evidenee taken-before Comm 1010 ~ appointed to i nq ui re i n t o th e C our t o f Ch a ncery. „ tit iot l 3. Mr. Secr e t ar y P ee l—Bill to correct. t h e prac ti ce of O Writs of Error.' . • • ' co'' 4. Mr. Hurne-L-Iteturn . of the number of State Prisonefsis r,: ' fined in Indi a w ith ou t t r i a l ;—Cories of Merror la ,oiri, respecting the Inaolßritons ;—and Copy of the her it.'` ment LAl''' of the Reverend Mr. Bryce as' Clerk of t . tionery. . . • OR OF THE DAY' FOR THIS. • I. Peter's Divorce Bill—C'onimittee. • . ~...Exelse Measures Regulation. Bill—Committee. 3. Labourers' Wages Bill Committee. - -• -• 4. Distillery Bill—Further consideration of Report' , R i