The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-05 00:00:00

system of non 'resident 'rotors. But if he proposed to c4n- 1 . atinue the suffrage 'to the remainder of the lives ri s ii 'those persons who 'et present possessed it as peyeisa of scot and then they became non-residerit'ese s tees.—( , ‘ Oh, oh !") weuld not go so far as 'to positively that in eaorrsistency upon the lord, but he should eee the Bill brought before ilte house in detail before be could be t satisfied time 'it (fig not contain that absurdity. The op-: posers eif the Rill had been denounced by gentlemen oppo- eiee ae einernies to all Reform. That el s iazirge Imad been: auade fee the purpose of implying that they entertained a •Oangerous hostility to the wishes of the people.—(Hear, llutar.) The charge was made for the purpose - cif elect ing against them thet creature of the presort day called popular feeling, and to monopOlise 'popular favour to the father side of the House.--cear.) For himself he would answer (and he believed he might answer for others) that he was not hostile to Reform. He was ready to t'htertain ,, : a ny question of rational, practice!, Constitutions]. Reeio-em (Hear) —of such a Retbrm as would heave as•lid . he 3.nu un impaired that Constitution uudev svhicla it a his greatest happiness to lire, and leveler which, l'ee trusted, in de fiance of the Right lion. I3entlernen opposite, he should long have the Imarpiness to live.—(Cheers and laughter.) He wooed 'support any such Constiteti o ntli Reform as that (disfranchisement of Eveshans) };reposed recently by the Noble Marquis the Meentel hip Bucking isnm (the Marquis of Chandos)„ ee'eeemla, although a Right Hon. Gentleman opposite bed I heen pleased to term it liy recritical—(Hear, hear, hear)—he (Mr. Freshfield) consi -slaved it both sineeve and practical. To any measures, therefore, that should be proposed within the scete of Reform not dangerous to the Constitntion s leg leading to Revolution, he would be friendly. R'tt at the ssme time heat b e was not hostile to RefotTee he was unfriendly, he was determinedly opposed, to may measure which should supersede the Constitution under which this country had en long flourished, and substitute in its stead something - theoretical and et-Ariel, of which no man could ealeulate the consequereces.—(Hear.) He wished that his Majesty's Ministers would not give the friends of the Constituticita in that Muse the trouble to &kat them.—(Leughter.) They (Ministers) told the House, indeed, to beware lest danger might result from the rejectien of their measure. 230 t he would tell them, that front success, danger, and mischief most be the actual results ; and he would • ask them to leave the probiset to the country, and net `..:t p`to duce the certaint.—(Hear, hear.) Ther had already iffeett guilty of raising ulaneerous expectations of an exten eion of popular rights which could never be granted as long As the Parliament of England had existence. —(Cheers. ) The Administration, who had originated the Bill, had not ere tedetished, by any of their measures, such a character as to gain the confidence of the House or of the country, or ro encourage him to place his confidence in thema It was a Governtnent of misnomers ; calling itself non-interfering, it intermeddled with the most vital principles and the 'mast established details of the Conatitelion. Calling itself a retrenching Ministry, it en:mine:wed its career by raiding to the burthens of the people; and calling ittelf a reform ing Ministry, it began by a Bill of Disfranchisement. Front such a Reform he prayed that the country might be for ever delivered.—(Greatlaughter.) DUNCOMRE said that he felt overeelteleeled with seambarrassment and 'regret, to find hinetert unexpectedly piaced in a sit:nation of hostility to the present Adminis vration upon a question of set!) importance as that now before the House. He, for one, had taken part in placing erm Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite in the seats which they now hold, and he had been desirous to afford them 4is utmost support. But representing as he did . a ) terge con stituency, from whom he had received the most distin gnialitil reward—he meant their contelence—and feeling Omit. interest involved in the restion before the House, he .considered it his duty, on that occasion, to overcome the friendly feelings which he bore towards the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, and not to give a sil e nt v o t e . The bight Hon. the Attorney-General had said that there were only two classesepposed to the Bill of the Noble Lord—the one which resisted all Reform ; and the other, for which ra tional R e form would be sufficient. He (Mr. D.) begged tee say, that he belonged to neither of these classes. He was very desirous of a rational and practical Reform. But to the proposed Reform he was compelled to give the most uncompromising oppotition—(Hear)—and he thought that, as respected the Constitution, the measure had been justly termed revolutionary. As respected the House, it was insulting ; and as respected the country, it was tyran nical and oppressive. He looked upon the disfranchising of the poorer classes of the people as unjust and despotic. Gentlemen had referred to the disfranchisement of the Irish forty-shilling freeholders, which be considered a very bad precedent. He had always been averse to that op 'oressive measure, which'inflieted a heavy penalty on any body of men, untried and uncendemned. If even th e Bill of the Noble Lord was carried into a Committee, which, he trd, would never he the case hs re...-(11w, hear, and laughter)—he was sure that it would he perceived that it never could work well. The Ministers themselves had not acted on their own principle consistently throughout this Bill. If diet principle was good, why was it not extended to Calne, Tavistock, Horsham, and Melton ? Why hail not ',lle franchise been taken front them, where population dia not average inure than 1,000, and transferred to Hali fax, and other towns whose population averaged more than 10,000? How could Ministers expect the question of Reform to be finally settled by such a distribution ? He was sure they would find that it was not so, even should the measure be ever carried into affect. Thinking the measure, therefore, to he unprincipled, tyrannical, revolu tionary, introducing a new Constitution, and destroying the balance between the several great interests of the country, he would give it his most strenuous opposition. It haul been stated, that with respect to this measure.. his Majesty's Ministers were perfectly unanimous. 11c con fessed that that statement surprised him not a little, when be remembered that the Noble Lord opposite (the Chan cellor of the Exchequer) had frequently declared himself a decided supporter of the vote by ballot. When he saw a Cabinet including the Noble Lordl, the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, and the Right lion. Member fat Inver ness, he must be allowed to say, that he thought it rather a remarkable feature in the ptesent debate, that up to ten o'clock last night there was not one Cabinet Minister who addressed the House.. He was not less surprised to find Gentlemen ;also treteavouring to draw its the authority of Mr. Canning' s speech on the ,ilc. trade, to support their own views, of the question ea: 'Worm: they should have re memleered that he, above all men, was most opposed to Re forret ; and that if, upon a different subject, he had let fell en expression which he never intended should it applied to Reform, he left it with the House to determine what might be the extent of that candour which tortured stray remarks of a deceased Statesman into the support eel that which the whole tenour of his life proved that he abhor tel. The Noble Lord opposite had cited the case of the disfranchisement of the Irish forty-shilling freeholders as affording a precedent to sanction his measure. It hap pened rather inoppsrtunely fur the character of consistency of the present Ministry, that a Noble Duke in the other House of Parliament signed a protest against that dis franchisement, descritaing it as unconstitutional, and es sentially unjust. The Noble Duke to whom he alluded was the Duke of Richmond, and he was forsooth a Mem ber of that united Cabinet which brought forward the present measure. Then he found a Noble and Learned Lord, a distinguished Member of the present Administra tion, supporting the Reform Bill of that united Cabinet, though, on more occasions than one, he bad expressed sentiments of a character very distinct from that which was now given to Parliament as the measure of a united Cabinet. Ile concluded by affirming that the measure was revolutionary in all its tendencies, arid in its principle tyrannical. Mr. JOHN SMITH said, that lie was one of those per sons who had an interest in boroughs but at all times he entertained a perfect conviction that such power in his hands was improperly placed ; at the mine time, that in justice to himself he was bound to declare, that for the nine-and-twenty years he possessed the borough in ques tion, he never once derived a shilling of profit, or the fa vour of any Minister, nor was the borough of the slightest importance to him, except only so far that it enabled him to enjoy the delight of bringing one or two good Whigs into that House. Ira Chichester, during the election, he had been hooted and assailed, as though he was one of the faction of boroughmongers. Now he could most solemnly declare that, neither directly nor indirectly, had he sold his interest in the borough ; and if any Member would move for the di isfraothisement of Midhurst, and other bo roughs of the same description, that Member should have his most cordial support ; for it hail been his full persuasion that no n em . ought to sit in that House in right of his money. There were, however, some pets of the Bill to which lie might . ur g e. some objection ; but , upon the whole, en , thought it en titled to the support of the House, and he 'doubted not that it would give satisfaction to the eoentrye e lie declared, that when he first heard the provieiens of the Bill propounded by the Noble Lord, it almostaook away his bleath, so much was he delighted with it. It gave him the full assurance that Ministers were in earnest, end had determined to work a thorough reformation, H e bad heard last night the speech of the Right lion. Bar one , opposite, the Member for Tainwortle and read it that morning; and the speech, though beautiful, elegant, en captivating, was still not convincing. The Right Hon. Barodet, for whom he entertained the higher respect, knew as well as ' any one could, time way in which that - laTeeees — toped ) and he must know that the disc franc - it:eminent of GO boroughs could not fail of effecting a prodigious change in that House ; at least there were many, new in that House—many- well-demsed s peal .behaved, well-bred young gentlemen; 'wlassa Inthe event of Reform, would altogether diettpretare .iut be must take leave to sayif that their toes wont be well supplied, from the twenty new Ittembers from the tonsnl, which were 'to , fee 'en franchised. In denying the asaerti ( ea oet e . t `g i n, present was a revolutionary measur e s 'he Oftserved, that it would bring 54 country getatleerren into that House. Now he shame' gladly lea'at how the introduction of 54 country gentlemen'-1 into that House could have a revolutionary tendeene , ; For it • he were called on to select one (dire tarat''-g;iout the Natal-- ranee of the . British contteiii .- A• ';,cure attached to our ancient institutionOW• another, it was the country gen tlemere I = l;.s ;liSSas. • M nut waste the time of the Houae, by insietitay t aan'an the importance of representatives to the reign Brett towns mentioned; for upon that point there I could be no difference of opinion, ends In fact, Ito Oa! dihrence had been expreastel Prete t t iase l'ae.terVYi:rse that he had had with persons mat raf a'lso',' he was enabled to say that ova; anaiieteg e'en upon the subject of Re form lay the refsete At large ; indeed no better proof could be addletied oft that universal feeling, than the fact of the, prodigious number of petitions praying fur Reform ; the reason was, that they looked to a P.egorincd Parlia ment as a means of being ret'see'iA . ietitri- the pressure of taxes. They alsoovell latkist that with a Reformed Par liament there VgliO .tale danger of the country being evin intro/Vett in such a war as the long-protracted contest with Veattee, which this country so unwisely began and ten tinued. The Noble Lord might rest rsatietled that the people of England were with him, and that his eel:rem., or something on the same petecipte, Must speedily be adeptili ; for the time he! arrived when they 'eosald Yib lOnger post pone the great work of initarrint to ‘lsatt Harale a character of independence. Mr. 'CALCRArf ll'-omplained that threats and intimi dation •14.1. been resorted to for the purpose of carrying the Bill of the Noble Lord, and for the purpose of re straining those who wished to speak theft holiest Sent iments, and do their duty to the 1)opl'3 of tngland. He thought himeilfjustifled i" aiseiting, that he always paid that deference to lauldic opinion which it had a right to deineata hands of the representatives of the people; eaf'd, as one of those representatives, he thought that ore of his first ditties was, never to give way to any wishes or demands of the people, the concession of arliieb Might be I rejudiciel to the people theenselnes. At preeent he should not state what his opinions were aspen the subject of Parliamentary Reforen ; but he conies sels he had very strong feeling upon the manner i 1 which the discussion had been carried on. Hon. GhaTerteen c faund tit rise in that House, and speak of themselves as alone speaking the sentiments of t!Se people. He saw no reason why any How, Member should assume to himself a monopoly of that kind. Until he was turned out of that Hoorn by the proscription of the Noble Lord ) he thought him self, as the representative of tint bortingli, entitled to speak the sentiments of all the tathars— that was the constitu tional doettin^. t and, while upon that tapir, he would expreti an earnest hope that, between the first and second reading, time might be given to ascertain what real) , were the sentiments of the people of England. —(Cheers from the Ministerial benehca.)-1t was his persuasion that the Bill of the Noble Lord would not ef fect any thing :approaching to what the people desired, for they Were 'divided vet the subject of Reform ; and the Bill of the, Ministers would neither satisfy the violent nor the moderate reformers; neither did 1:c think the satisface tion which it was the object of the Bill to impatt Would ever be attained by their pursuing A Middle course. After having thus given earpresemit to the feelings which bad been excited in his breast at the moment, -he would now prontett to give his cool and deliberate judgment upon the measure, as it was then presented to the House. In the first place they were threatened, Is ith refereiwe to lty not only with the discontent of the Wide, but with the dis pleasure of the Sovereign. The Caine of his Majesty had been brought learote the House; and he deeply and bit terly tegeet•ell that any such use should have been made of the name of the Sovereigu. He begged to remind Hen. Gentlemen opposite of the sentiments of a great man to whom all of them had been accustomed to look up-e -he meant Mr. Fox. Did they ternember the terms in which, on mote than one memorable occasion, that great man deprecated the introduction of the name of the Sovereigh.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—Now, he must come to the disfranchisement of the borough of Wareham, and in speaking of that, he begged to be understood rather as speaking for his constituents than himself. It was his con viction that if a census were now to be taken, it would be seen that the population of that town would be found to contain two or three and twenty hundred, and it was ra thee hard that it should he disfranchised on a census taken in 1621. He was sorry that he had not previously been male aware of the importance of a little increase bf po pulation.—(A laugh.) He confessed that he should feel no small serprise if the Noble Lord should find himself able Will a stew Anil te formed Parliament, to carry on the busi ness of the Government ; however that might be, he was sure that no one else could attempt such an undertaking, and he was perfectly satisfied further, that if the measure were agreed to, and that such a House etf Coittmons were famed es the framers of tlhati is contemplated, they would cease to have either King or Lords. Still he (Mr. C.) was a Ilefetmer. He had said over and'over again, when asked whether he thought the Government, during the last fifty or sixty years, worked well or ill, that it had not worked well; but if asked how he thought it would be l'kely to work under the new C institution, he had no dif ficulty in saying that he was persuaded it would work a great deal werse. He especially intreated the House to re member that this B 11, if once prised, and turned out to be mischievous, it was irreme liable—it would destroy the balance of the Constitution—they might be assured that the prependereting power of that estate would prove final to the other two. He declared to the House, as a man of lemma, that on Tuesday last he was prepared to support the measure of the Noble Lord, bet the extreme length to which it went rendered his doing so utterly impossible. Nevertheless, he admitted that there were blots upon the Constitution which ought to be removed—there were large maesee of the community who ought to be directly repte sented—all great towns ought to be reeresented—and if it were deemed inconvenient to increase the numbers of the present House of Commons, he avoid(' go the length of admitting the principle, that a certain number of boroughs ought to be disfranchised. He was as ready as any loan to admit that sorae of thine boroughs ought to give way to the sinus poi:mil—the wishes, feelings, and interests of the people ought to be the paramount consideratien—but he never could agree to a thee sine which would render the Legislature the slave of popular opinion—which would enable one estate to effect the destruction of the others. He had formerly been thought a very good Reformer, but now it appeared that he was but a " puny whipster."—(A laugh.) With respect to the Bill that was proposed, if it was once passed they might rely upon it that it would not stop where the Government proposed.—(Hear, hear.) The Hon. Member for Middlesex had candidly remarked, that the ballot and universal suffrage would he for future con sideration ; and the Hon. Member for Preston, in saying that the measure had not taken in enough, had intimated, that unless they gave representatives to the lowest orders of the State (to which he himself had no objection, so long as those representatives were in due proportion), as well as the ballot, they wool! be doing nothing ; and the real fact was, that as soon as they had admitted this additional half million of rot rs, the argument for the ballot would be un answerable e for that half million would consist of the very class who would have the right of saying—we cannot exercise the elective franchise, because of the influ ence which our customers have over us, and the directions which they give us as to our voting ; therefore, either take away our franchise, or give us the ballot.—(These observations were loudly cheered by Mr. Hunt.)—lf this measure were passed, the end would be that they must convert the Monarchy into a Republic—(Cheers)—and the difference between him and the new Reformers that ,had sprung up was, that he was for Reform, and that they, with the Noble Lord at their head, were for reeo tution. This would be the real effect of the efforts of the united Cabinet which the country now so happily pos sessed—(A laueli)—a Cabinet that made so much of its being united, though he certainly hail heard that is dis tinguished Member of it had said, that it was because they must be united that he bad agreed in the Bill, though personally he did not concur in the measure. li e did not know whether this was so, but he certainly had heard it so reported. For himself, he could not bring himself to think that he was any enemy to Reform, or to the commonalty of the country, in refusing to give his consent to this Bill; but, at the same time, he would uni•e with several Hon. Gentlemen who were of the same way •of thinking as himself, in requesting the House to allow the Bill to be brought in without a division, in or der that they might see what it really contained.—(hea r, hear.)—That was but a sort of reasonable request for a measure that was proposed by any Government, and it would enable them to give the provisions due considera tion by,the time it came to its second reading.—(Neer.) Mr. STANLEY—During the last eight years that I have had the honour of holding a seat in this House, I have, whenever this gre it Parliamentary question has bean brought forward, only thought it necessary to give a silent ,vote, having always felt that it was' in abler hands, and ad vocated by mere commanding talent and ability than 1 can presume to hotel. But on thie occasion, the extra• . . ordinary cirentSManna In alch.. i v ifts all•abeorhing mea sure Was stands, when, for the first,titne, this nation is" triumphing in-seeing a great, corittitut:nnal, and effective plan of Parti.amenta*y Referm ).iissY:ght forward by his Majeatt'sMtiaister's !n ;ill that. authority (and here I am' tne word made use of by the Right Hon. Gen-: tleman opposite) with which they have the polier of in vesting it in their character of Ministers : when i see that', the measure so proprTed is let tilt` 'Vagne in its nature and uncertain in ha aer.l:og for the purpose of catching tho-ge_alemen who deal in generals and not in particulars. —(Loud cheers.) In such a case, Sir, I feel that any one so warmly interested in the mek.sure as myself would be guilty of a dereliction of duty, if he exposed himself to the possible imputation of indifference-, by miming to express , his sentiments en so ronmestoul and a 4u' jest.._ (Hear t hear.) Ile': tame, sir, I feel that ' shat! orst-e to tsbni:u• und e r considerable difficulty in ad ifresSing the House, because it will he my duty to call its , attention to some portions of that commanding, powerful, I had almost said convincing spe!ch,,.deliverod• last night by the Right Ilan. Gentleman opposite li. Peel). But, in the observations S that: have to make, I trust that it is unnecery for me to assure the Right Hon. Gentleman, as he took occasion to assure the Noble Lord who is his Majesty's Foreign Secretary (Lord Palmerston), that I enter on this discussion with no hostile or angry feeling ; fir I most sincerely say that there is no one in this Reuse for whose talents, ability, and integrity, I entertain a higher opinion, and I have Indy "isw to reg'ret that my sititiments on this autject should differ front his. How ever, in hose rcat case (the Roman Catholic question), that was Istely before that House and the country, he gradually came from his own opinion into that which was so important for the best interests of Ireland, to which country that measure was principally addressed ; and I therefore trust that, should the present qnestion be car ried, we shall, in no very lung time, have the benefit of his testimony in faVOur of tie ,advantages which it has !..ech the means of bestowing on the nation.—(Hear, hear.) —The Right Hon. Gentleman, in the course of his speech last night, had the candour to express his approbation of the conduct of the present Government, as far as that de pattment was concerned to which I have the honour to belong; and I cm assure him that I hold such an ohm , - vatien at no less honourable to him than, I am sure, it tvit he gratifying to the Noble Marquis at the head of the Irish tlovern:ncnt. I could not, hewever, help lament ing that H conclioled his remarks on that point by say ing, that the late Government would net have been stile to do what the present had done ; by which he would in timate,_ that the support which had been received from hint and his Right Hon. Friends by us, would not, hod the reverse been the case, have been reciprocated by the Gentlemen who now sit on this side of the House. Was not this au unfair position to take? When the Right lion. Gentleman brought forward that measure which lie conceived to be a healing one for the whole empire (and which, in that respect, I hold to be of the same nature as the one which his Majesty's Gov. rnment is now recom mending to the attention of the House), who were those that took up the cause ? Who were they that, when he was detested by his foriher triends, went with hint hand in hand, and suppered him through that cause ? (Cheers.) Who were they that had advocaoff the prin ciples of the Right Hon. Gentleman, because they were the principles which they themselves had always advo cated?—(A laugh, and cheers from the Opposition, an swered by cheering flent the Ministerial side.) I am ready to acknowledge that Mr. Canning, and others who acted with Mr. Canning, could not have carried that mea sure through the Parliament, because he and they were exposed to the ()limn of not h:ing supposed to ha staunch supporters of the Church. The reason wily the Right Hon. Gentleman tViA able to carry it through then Vag, such confidence was placed in hi, support of the Church, that it was held to he certain that he would not propose any thing hostile to its security. But now cannot the case be reversed in ti.is instance ? Is it not possible that the Right Hon. Gentleman could not have taken such a step as we have taken in Ireland, because he is suspected (I do not say Psidy) of being no very warm friend oil the fights of the people ?—(Cries of " No, n o , and hear, hear,")—l do not mean to say he is justly act suspected ; but I do say, that the same f cling of confi dence that was placed in his Protestant principle which enabled him to carry the Catholic question, is expressed in the popular confidence which the presets' Government possesses, and Which has enabled us, without suspicion, to carry that into effect which the Right Hon. Gentleman could not have done with the same success.—(Cheers.) It is a remalkable circumstance, Sir, that every gentleman on the opposite side hag, on this occasion, conic forwnrd with a declamation —or, perhaps, I ought rather to say, with a cry that this measure is revolutionary. I grant, hmrt!ver ; that the Right Hon. Gentleman had been cau tious how he used the word himself. It was not a revo• littionary measure with him. No, it was only a new Constitution.—(Hear.) Sir It PEEL—I quoted the words of the Noble Lord. (Tremendous cheering.)—l adhered to every word cf the Noble Lord's speech purposely.—(Cheering renewed.) Mr. STANLEY—StiII tire Right Hon. Gentleman's argument went to show that the measure repotted was to produce an entirely new Constitution—(Hear, hear).— and though I admit in part that this is a new model ling of the Parliament, yet I must take a broad distinc tion between that and revolution.—(ilear, bear.)—And yet we have head it taunted by almost every gentleman who has spoken on the other side—" Oh, this is a re volution !" My idea of a revolution is, that it is a great change in the institutions of the country, brought about by the application of an uncon-titutional force.—(Loud cheers.)—lt is calling into operation and effect a force not known or recognised by the Constitution, but called by the existence of circumstances of the time into a power that sets it above the Ginstitntion.—(llear, hear.)—And if there be a more mitigated sense of a revolution, the lowest that I can admit is, that it is an infringement of the rights of one branch of the Constitution by the exer cise of an exorbitant power in another.—(Hear.) Sir ROBERT PEEL—What do you say to the revo lotion oil 1688 ? Mr. STANLEY—Undoubtedly the revolution was a glorious revolution, and one of which the country had reason to be proud ; hut at the sime time, that revolution was carried into effect by a conventional party, and by the aid of foreign troops, but not with the sanction of one putt of the estates of the realm.—(Cluers.) How dif ferent, then, was it from this measure, which comes in the shape of a proposition to one branch of the estates of the realm for the purpose of being canvassed in all its parts, an , l which afterwards was to receive the judgment of the other two estates, without which it can never pass into a law ? And ye►, forsooth, we are to he told that this is revolution ?—(Che, ring.) But, according to the Hon. Gentleman opposite, intimidation also has been prac tised. We are told by them, " You threaten us who do our duty : and by talking of appealing to the country, vott endeavour to prevent our doing that which we ought." I am going to quote a bight authority upon this point—no less a one than that of the Right Hon. Gentleman himself. —(Heer, hear, hear.) Bitt I beg that I rnsy not he misunderstood. Ido not mike the quotation on the ground of inconsistency, for I fully admit the force of this argument. But when the Hon. Gentleman talks of intimidation, and charges us with Revolution, I must be allowed to read one short extract from a speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman. The Right Hon. Gentle man is, as the House may anticipate, arguing in fa vour of the Catholic Relief Bill ; and after going largely into the state of Ireland at that period, he says, " We h we also had sad example of that other and gre discord and commotion. Surely it is no un manly fear to shudder at the recurrence of such things. I would richer exclaim with Lori Falkland—. Peace ! Peace! P. ace !' and I look out with anxiety for the a'ter native by which civil war may be honourably averted, and by which we may rescue the subjects of the same kingdom front the dire necessity of shedding each others' blood. Coeant in tiedcra clextra- Qua datur ; ast armis concurrant arma cavete.' Now let me ask the House, whether, in the course of this debate, there has been made AS direct or strong an appeal to the danger of refusing this measure, as was made b y the Right Hon. Gentleman in pleading the danger of re fusing what he held to he his healing measure?—(Hear , hear.) But this is not 41. These are more words of the Right Hon. Gentleman :—" There is such a thing as the fear of being afraid ; and the disaffection which exists in Ireland cannot be looked on without fear, and to affect that we have no fear is, in other words, to be insensible to the welfare of the country. They were not to be inti midated on a threat of commotion ; but I do not under stand the constitution of that man's mind, who, looking at Ireland, does not fear the consequences, should its pre sent disturbed state continue." Sir, I agree in every syllable of this. But if we give weight to the Right Hfln• Gentleman's argument (which, by the way, was in con tradiction to his former opinions), at least let us, who have always, on the principle of justice and political rights/ maintained the great question of Parliamentary 11.1orm— let us at least claim the right (without being told that we are endeavouring to intimidate or overawe) of availing ourselves of the state of the country as a collateral argu ment to force on the opinion of those who are timid, wavering, or hesitating, and relieve their doubts, by pointing at what is the greater danger of the two. Sir, I am free to confess that the name of the Sovereign has been used—perhaps too much used—on this occasion.-- 'Wear, Lean) /am not cot of tiure tel,o would lightly' 'call on that name; end I regret that, in the anxiety of the debate, any one should call that name in' quest4n way that might le supposed 'to influen'te.' the ;Memberti;of this House. But wlien'it saidl !hit• the name Majestylsat b-eki owl th?. pul;,;c Press. I most Fr mark the; tb;? house is not responsible for that. We have no controul over the Pre , s, and, therefore, neither the House nor the Ministry are responsible. His Ma jesty's Ministers, most undoubtedly, have never made use of such a word for the purpose of influencing Members. But we have been told that my' Right Ht;n. Friend held out the idea of a dissolution of Piktl!attoittt., IT , Right Huh. Priem! /las "tottt,ittieqqiViteallycienisd that he had made use of I . I IZ exPrtslon in.titztt way. But it .is, per. haps, not going too far to .suppose,, that if the sense, of this Home 51)91141 th.ctle against the present metrure, it is not impossible, that reference ;pay be mole to the opinion of the country. Put the P.,igh; lion. Gentleman opposite has anto.7ered this with a counter threat. Ile has said, you may disssolve the Parliament if you like ; and I and the other one hundred and sixty-eight Members will go back to our cousti!uents and say, we are the defender, of your rights—we have stood up for your pri vileges, and we doubt not that you will return us again to Parliament —(A cry of " No, no.") The Right Hon. Gen;leman's own words were-- , -'' I will t'o with yons 1311 its my hand—l place it betide them, and Olen, tette'rn me again if you• wish to have yotir privileges maintained, your rights guarded, and your franchise con tinued." This would he with them a very cogent argu ment no doubt, and those Hon. Gentlemen who were not fortunate enough to have any constituents at all might use the same argument with the patrotsa of the Boroughs they represented..=::-(A laugh.) Bat I must confess that this looks to me a little more like applying to the passions or prejudices of a body than to the general interests and wel fare of the country.—(Cheers.) The Right Hon. Gell man had said—" Do not shift the responsibility to toy shoulders." But no one bad said a word about the Right Hon. :7;entleman personally or individually. Ail that had been said was, that if the late GoVerhment could not carry on the affairs of the State, because they resisted Re form—(Cheers)—and if in future they exerted themselves, anti successfully., to bailie the endeavours of those who, in accordance with the public opinion (and that public opi hion they had admitted, for if it had not b .en against them they would not have cone out of office), then, indeed, they must take on themselves the responsibility that attached to the losing of this great question, in which the public anxiety was so much absorbed. But the Right Hon. Gentle man says, that we have brought on this measure at a very had time, and that we had better not hare chosen such an Opportunity. But what was the very pledge on which we came into office ?—(Cheers. ) It was because we deemed Reform aec scary ; and my Noble Friend has stated, that he would not have come in unless he had thought it ne cessary.—(Hear.) With these pledges on our lips, and with this measure prescribed to us according to our bond, to what does the friendly advice of the Right Hon. Gen tleman to us amount ? " Oh," says he, " now that you are in office, say that the time is not cony, nient."— (Laughter and cheers.) If Government had acted on that advice, they would, indeed, be open to a fearful responsi bility, and with justice might hnve been charged with any of the consequences that should arise from the expecta tions of the people being falsified by the conduct of those on whom they had re!led.—(Hea.-.) I think that the late - Gavel nment might have read something of a lesson from the delay that had taken place in passing the Catholic question.—(Cheers.) It that measure bad been carried long before, not only would a protracted and bitter struggle have been spared, but that feeling which now existed in Ireland would never have taken ropt there---.that feeling of restlessness which put the people of that country into the hands of vet y men who wished to excite them, and which accustomed them to lo k to other friends than those whom they saw in that House, would never have had a birth. Those things would never have taken place, which had made the boon, when granted, of little value to what it might have been.—(Cheers.) The case, Sir, appears to me to he Very like that of the Sibylline books.—the longer we refused to purchase them, the higher price we had to pay for them, and the less was the value we got.— (Loud cheers.) There certainly was a time when I hoped that a gradual Reform might have been intro duced, by selecting one after another of the delinquent boroughs..,-/Tht boroughs that were technically prove 1 to he corrupt, but those great and notorious cases to which no one could shut his eyes, and which, though not con victed on legal evidence, were morally so to all men's understandings. This would have shown thlt we were determined sub,Aantially to Reform the abuses of this House, in which ease the people and the public opinion would hare lem satisfied by a less sudden change than that which is now contemplated. Put let any one look back to the time, money, and abilities that had bevn ‘vasted in canvassing the most paltry questions upon this subject —such as, whether this man had received one guinea and that man five—when it was as notorious as the sun at noon-d iy that the boroughs were bought and sold in the market like other vendible commodities. And after all this painful, minute, and laborious reeearch which had been gained in the way of Parliamentary Reform, not one great town or important district had been introduced into that House; I may also say, that scarcely one corrupt borough has been deprived of the power of selling its corruption. But the Ri.zht Hen. Member for Wareham says, that he is ready to concede to the just demands of the people. Mr. CALCRAFT —1 said that Burke 'said so. Mr. S FANLEY—I am glad to have such good autho rith. That is very good authority indeed. But then why do lion. Gentlemen hold op their hands and say, " Good God, the demands of the people!" Is it for the people in bondsmen's key to sue for those privileges which they tray demand as a right ? If it is not inconsistent with the privileges of that House for ahe Bill of Rights to have the words inserted, " demand, claim, and insist on," surely any member of this House may say, that the people demand their tights at your hands. But the Right Hon. Member for Wareham thinks that this measure is to ruin the King and the Lords; and considering that he opposes us on principle, I cannot help thinking that he has made rather large conctssions. The Right Hon. Member says that lie is ready to give up non-resident freemen, but must insist on keeping the resident, freemen of Wateham. —(Laughter, and hear, hear.) He says that he is re tdy to admit large towns to the right of representation, and to agree that scene boroughs—some boroughs, Sir—should he disfranchised - to make way for those large towns. But the main feature of his arguments seems to be, not that see should disfrancltise. those boroughs that are node • 2,000 inhahitants, hut those that are under 1931.—(L00d alters.) This certainly is a nice line of distinction; but I cannot think that he has a right to come against as on the principle of our Bill, and quarrel with our line of demarca tion, when it turns out that his own line is within a hun dred of ours ; for though it might be imagined that it is possible that the Right lion. Member for Wareham is interested in his line of 1931, no ingenuity can assume that the Noble Lord has the smallest personal interest in fixing his line where he has.—(Loud cries of " hear, hear, hear.")— But, let me ask, is no line to be fixe I in these cases? And while on this point I may observe that Mr. Pitt thought it expedient that a line should be fixed ; for, in one of his speeches, he contends that " some no tion on the subject should prevail, and the representation rescued from that accident and caprice in which it was involved ; there should he an eternal axiom in represen tation, and its law should not depend on locality or name, but on number and condition as the etandai•d."— (Checrs.)—With ell possible respect, therefore, for the worthy and of comae independent Member for Warham, I think that, front the circumstances which we have ti, the though c I , 1 71 v d i dat not e vouchtogo o there,or the taketr truth, occa sionally beard, it may he stated that War e h am i s a d ec ayed l f borough, not sty jetty representi ng t h e vo i ce of the peop l e. certainlyt?ith is ave cetealn fur ,to heard, his hat, make a civil how, and propose himself to the elec tors—(A laugh) —and an Hon. Friend of mine,who once sat for that borough (there is no umd for alarms, for I am not going to tell any secrets), when he was being chaired in great triumph, heard one of the assembled mul titude—of course not one of the electors, for they were rather scarce —ask another, who was standing near, " Pray, who is the new Member ?" To which the other replied, "1 am sure I don't know. Mr. Calcraft is one, and the other is a friend of his ; but 1 don't know his name, and I never heard it." - Now, though no doubt the being a friend of the Right Hon. Gentleman must le a very great recommendation, yet this certainly did look very much like a gratuitous perception of merit on the part of the electors. But the Right Hon. Gentleman says he has no objection to the punishment of delinquent bo roughs, only let them he proved to be so. Now surely it would be a task of no small difficulty to prove delinquency against the three niches in the wall of Midhuret (as we understood the Ri g ht H on. G ent l ema n), or against the green mound at Sarui n ! Th e d e li nqu ency can he !tone; and, therefore, if there be a population elsewhere, taking a miserable bribe, that is to be called delinquency, while these other places are the essence of purity, because there is not a soul in them to be corrupted.—(A laugh, anti bear, hear.)-1 will not go into the question of corpora tion-robbery, for what with Mr. Pitt, the Hon. Member for Corfe Castle (Mr. G. Bankes), and the Hon. Member for Westminster (Mr. Hobhouse), 1 think that the argu ment has been as completely set aside as any I have ever heard.—(Hear, hear.) But when we are going to the question of delinquency, I must ask whether that alone is the rule by whielrwe are to be guided ? for if that the ease ! I call on' the Right Hon: Gentleman (Sir R. Peel) Issel 'his friends to explain how it was they di,fienehised the 40L freeholders of Ireland ?—((;heers.) At the seine time I beg to say that I go along with him in that nice sure : I believe that it has been productive of ii nefit to Ireland; and I agree in the principle that we should not allow the franchise to be exercised by those who exercise it to the injury of the public benefit. What was the ease in that instance ? That it wasexereised nominally by the many, hut really under the influence of a few. But, ii we are to reject the manye who; because they ere under thls cobt!sonl of th'e fete' tinti'jtexellise their rights with out injury e to the country, how is it that, we ar e ca ll e d im to save there who are lesthe nominally Eel really the fe - -7', and who bold their franchise to,,the exclusion of the man:,': --(Cheers. ) It has alsn happened, that the sons of 10/ t tliat fic the 'l the Right Honourable Gentlemen fixed upon that sutn? for freeholds has been objected to by Hon. Gentlem en on the other side, when, curiously enough , that was the v e ry earn at t. evwhi chhise in Ireland.theßiglst l A HonHonourable Gentleman i nd why Because he conceived that that was the right =coot to secure the' mass of the intelligent and conseien tious freeholders. But, in fact, the present measure will not disfranchise a single man who is now enjoying that plivilege.(A cry of " No, no.'') Before gentlemen dis pdte that point, it wouP., perhaps, be as well if they would wait till the Bill is brought in. When that is done, it will be foiled that my position is correct. No man, repeat, will he disfranchised, except, by his own art. The rights of individuals are safe, bet the rights of claeses are abrogated. Mitch has been !aid of the benefits of the, nomination of botougha ; lint that has been so ably an • swered by the Hon. Member for Caloe, diet it would nut merely be a work of supererogation in me to ea ose that I,,llacy, it would,be impertinent for me to go over the 2,31111, ground which he went over so much to his credit. It might be true that they had been the Means of bringing twiny able and excellent men into the House, but there was one class they could never bi ing ; there was one peint in which they must fail ; they can never send to the flute representatives of the people.—(Chcers.) That single defect overbalanced all the good they produced. The Right Hen. Gentleman sail, that it was roost imprudent to take 500,000 people into our councils; but we do not take them into cur councils; we call them to the exercise of their constitutional rights, and attach them, ob taining their confidence and the assi•tanee of their knowledge, to the institutions of the country, found ing its security on their affections and support. I will not advert to what has been said of this be ing a revolutionary measure, further than to desire those who make that objection to look to the constitu tion of his Majesty's Government. Is my Noble Friend who brought in the Bill a man belonging to no family, and dues he bear a name not associated with the glorhs and history of the country ? Is the Noble Lord at the head of the Government a man to make light of the pri vileges and rights of his order? Is he not rather attached, pertinaciously attached, to • tie privileges of the aristo cracy? Has he not been reproached with that?—(No, no.)—ls not the Government composed of persons who have a great steke in the country, and is it possible that they can gain any advantage by exposing themselves to the chance-medley of a revolution? Their &west inte rests are too closely united with the good of their country, their fortunes are too deeply would up in its welfare, and they are too anxious to transmit to posterity those for tunes undiminished, and their reputations untarnished, to undertake any revolutionary measures. The measure is only one of wise foresight to secure the privileges of their order. They saw that the country was menaced, an I they believed that the aristocracy would be placed on a firmer basis than at present by being based on the ;Sec tione of the people. It was not intended to change the Constitution, but renovate it, and give it consistency and strength ; to repair its blemishes, and adapt it to all the, circumstances of the times. It was the result of wise fore- sight, and it was stigmatized as tending to depose the Mo narch and destroy the House of Lords. I have no doubt that the legitimate influence of the aristocracy will be in creased by this Bill, but the il , egitimate influence of that aristocracy, its influence by means of bribery and corrup tion, Will be put an end to, and the influence by intimi dation will cease. Their influence, in the present cir cumstances of the country, and among a people remarkable for their attachment to rank and station, with the power of the aristocracy to promote the welfare of the lower c lasses, will secure to that aristocracy the love and affec- tions of the people. The Bill will cut off or prevent the illegitimate influence now exercised, but it will strengthen and support the legitimate influence of the upper classes. The Noble Lord said, that for the 168 Members who were interested in this decision to consent to this measure, -would be, to use his language, to sign and seal their own damnation. There are probably many persons among these 168 who will not be indisposed to sacrifice their own interests to the greater interests of their eountry. I will tell the Noble Lord that there has been one striking in stance of this displayed this evening, when one of these 168—(Cheers)—came forward, and wattd in plain terms that he was glad that the power which he bad un justly possessed was to be legally put and end to—that he rejoiced that tie Bill was to dry up the sources of that un just power—and that he was glad to sacrifice his own paltry interests to the greater interest of national adv enrage. Among the 168 I have no doubt that many will be in fluenced by the same motive, and wi I come to a similar decision. The opponents of the measure may say what they please of the policy of the measure—what they please as to its being a violation of the constitutional law—but not one word can be said against the honesty and sincerity of those who have proposed the measure. They pledged themselves, when they accepted office, to reduction and retrenchment ; they pledged themselves to Reform; and without looking to the right or the left, they have re • deemd their pledge, bringing forward a plan which is well calculated to put an end, fur ever, to the core upt species of patronage by which their country has long been go verned. I implore the House, by considerations of pru dence, by considerations of justice, by consideeations of wise principles, by the love they bear to the great and glorious Constitution which has been banded down to us—(Cheers) —l implore you, by the love you bear to our Constitution, not to resist the plan of Reform now sub mitted to you. I call on you, by considerations which must occur to every man, not, by now refusing the claims, or demands, or requests for rights which are co natitu tionally asked, and which you cannot constitutionally withhold,—l c ell on you not to defeat by resistance this measure, but to unite yourselves to the Ministels, and support them in their endeavours to promote the safety and atobility of our institutions—(A laugh)—to found their security on the legitimate influence of the Constitu tion ; and I call on you to build for yourselves an impe rishable monument of fame, based on the affections of the people.—(Cheers.) An Host MEMUER, who vas imperfectly heard, spoke of the measure being a violation of vested rights. It was equally a violation of the rights of the aristocracy and of the poorer classes. If that House were corrupt as it was described, it was incompetent to settle such an important question.—(Speak out.) There was no principle pre served in the measure—it was kept up on one side, and broken through on the other. To make the House con sent to pass the measure, it was threatened with the ven geance of the Crown, and the fury of the people. If they were to have suck large and sweeping alterations, it would he better to have a new Constitution at once. It left the indirect influence, which was the worst, and did away with direct influence, which was the least injurious. He could not support the measure., and therefore he had left the other side, and gone over there.—(Cheers.) [The Hon. Member spoke from the Opposition side.) Mr. C. W. WYNN rose to speak amidst much confu sion of Members leaving the House-, anti was some time be fore be could be heard. He was then understood to say, that be had listened with great attention to the different arguments which had been ably urged on both sides of that most important question. With the single exception of the Catholic question, it was of magnitude unparalleled by any measure brought into Patliament for the thirty years that he had had a seat in the House. He came to the con sideration of that question fairly, and destitute of all bias, except that which naturally arose from the respect he felt for his Noble Friend who brought forward the subject, and except that respect he had for the different Members of his Majesty's Cabinet, with whom he had long been in habits of intimacy. He trusted that, in his (pinion, he was not influenced by the false pride of consistency,, and be held, with the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, that nothing was so contemptible as..knowingly to persist in error. On what were their opinions formed but on the state of cir cumstances and of society, on all the things around them,, always visionaryay s al terations. At the same t i me he had never felt that dr ead on th e t e mpers and dispositions of t he pe o ple the go vernment of whom was placed in their hands.? H e be lieved then he could say with truth, that on thi s im portant question he had no bias. He had l o oked , a t it fur and I r a n r a g n ; v n ea i r years generalssrith cdeepl.an tges i e n re t s h t e , and syst c in had , w of innovation which had prevailed amongst some of those with whom - he : had lived on habits of intimacy, and for whom he felt great respect ; for he was convinced that the Constitution of this country was one of innovation. of perpetual innovation, anti that a susceptibility to perpetual amendment and improvement was one of its leading principles. But then the amendments and im provements ought to be gradual. Measures which con- .. , tilt e i 'li temp.ate erg:" t angee neget e be erac i vally i or they might endanger the safety of the whole. 11 „ I s letissf,'S s , therefnre, elways supported Bills which went grade" Ill b 0, S eaaL ou. anieliowe the Constitution. To those Bills which -• e i %T e l been brought in at different times to disfranchise c one NClei and guilty beraughs be had been uniformly friendlY%it; slyftlf:letrr might say without egotism, that the tirst prl°",pf a atel i s P which was submitted to Parliament for the transf er on tb i Ntt lltro l franchise I ten a corrupt borough to a large te'rf' iii e T W of e motion of his Noble Friend, was drawn up by hign ' oee e4 , `,lltht h . " thought that ameliorations of that description %vereed to e (, B i t" t B.4 itiort e rely, fuel mere deeiteible, and he had always ‘ei b . ern t he '4 1 , 11 ; . lece,elierm . _ Hs believed that from the pertoelr cif (hi t t ! f re y a f i t bossuagli ;if elrampiusel ,was (:isfranchied,. mel t ,AI 4 4; end , intrceieuiewiets eletitiqt;; frirMils of ceilstitetienal oi'dee brit! e'etettti.ini a° l',o4 !ech . ,, cis. ho es that by eer,cer ring in a course of that deser s i P gres t rte. chir u e 'l l the House would run no riek of any danger, ac ti flit t oe ik es itee 04 ch ..",ze would he avoided. For many years, he 113. 1 of' e lk %) a that House did its ditty, and not a Bill of that lie ° ll o f RI 4 '14,1 4 had been proposed to that House which had not receive. the isiekiett senetion. But, tine rtunately, a practice adopted il' e k Itse,4 ,tt o other House, of not passing such Bills unlese the WI t he s t ‘ti e . t . 4 awl most complete judicial evidence was produeed!ch all "ote any I° corruetion of the borousgh, became a rock (tn W hi se ecie: Nce seeis i such Bills split, He did not wish to name those St " rbe rsifite le i cri a l instance this Taoist. was adopted, but it arose i e t eeel es t'' P a ls to t' from a habit of considering questions—brod q u e st of' % I. IN or 1 (If PelleYi es judicial questions. Where the cold be l e all w i l l East Pettus aeose, it *as hoped that a reinetlY °, if ell' 4 ose. c ., forsnd for that cirse. His Right Hon; Friend asks n reed rt e di n ' failtwe Of that rueistrrh weee enritigh to justify the!' bo tly Ne er ! ) , menebre? fte would say mit iditanq; bet 61101 le ti ." knew that the inunediete misbhief was not so grea t d oe; Sli - e e s ' s feelines produced. When it was seen that two e, s het 9 th e i - " (furred together—one the strongest possible, and Il le .j e - sce tills), the eery weak ; and when it *as seen that the feeble e vi e el' Neste, in the one case prevailed, and in the other the streng f 01 1 4 4 ,4 1 411 donee was found not s ifficient to justify the transfe r s :ego l a tesp eei , b fi anchit', the, result, be believed, on the general '. pis N ee . `Y that 1 t ... s 1 . s ar t was greatly mischievous. He was satisfiedes ,e‘eses, f desirable to extend the repretuentuttion to large tntvi ie ' lj f flit the ~ve n t c ' was that to be done ? An addition to the netnbeil „pee '' th e e House, already inconveniently large, would n ot fir k t ee Nee Peep It was already morn then sufliciently large for the d i reell b a ll • tin charge of its duties. The large towns, then, e° 9.l 1 114 a tt iett he repsesented by (lief, aechising some other placid Or h oly t o r e Noble Friend (Lord Pshnerston, we belueve,) c° l i _ e ` sob' 1 fleeh ee , witness for him that he had always considered b io sell h ittiee t ' l J ed to be environed with difficulties. A men in on ° 1 °11 °4 4 4 builder i r wiser than he was, who could see his 10 Y iso o l - kiln, ' tit. se dangerous difficulties. Under these circuit 00/ f i 'lesi e 11 the change took place in the Administration. 1 . , - 0 1, f t' e' s r° eet 44l „, Governtnent pledged itself to use safe and pla'';,,, b . ~, dw ell tuenehment, and to the propriety of that, all cl ot jessil 4 ne e , 0 ; belierel, agreed. At the same that he was Lee , 11 1 e e i k th e . 1 to any extensive measure of Reform, be " - k , es"" „ c mitee san ' greatest confidence in the Noble Lord at t'''' iP; .",', tie s c of the Government - , and confidence in tbl ee O lt ' ‘'e l asset ? claration the Noble Lord had made and repeated - ia - h 1 St e d t- ' He had stated to the Noble Lord his concurren ce c e 0 apt de s i r e : measures of retrenchment ; but he haul also sta l l J O,: 3t aiti,c , lie could only look at the Reform question re lnitec t e lito / ' i k tl il i es i , was not willing to edopt any change except one °` i d ti :te l 0 ; 41 necessity. It was due to himself to awe this, and b n e .tiO l i ~It el se , l l the House would allow him to speak of himself. ''',- 1 9 , 'el, hav e , grounds he had accepted office, stipulating exprec%,'P 11 I h o 7ftili e ' stating expressly', on the subject of the representetV i (e' are if that question were submitted to Parliament, lie s e f ar , h e, t i himself the power to step aside and not suer t io e ,p, e s e a that he ressrved to himself the liberty of stating e l e " :do se ., I pions on the subject, and they were such, so O p el ;eie e C ur t i from those of his colleagues, as in general were ' 1 %0,, a ll all to melee the individual holding them cease to forni u r c er l l,t as iii-, a Government which entertained opinion. in yfr te l d e l „ i thesf , a could not agree. In the formation of the men' °- $ O 7, f o a lk b e 1 mitred to Path-uncut,. he of course had no share l' s f: i rth t not being a Member of the Cabinet, the measure W o e ' 1 t i'fh a MI Pi - -(1 communicated to him till the week preceding the t o l ' l , * ll of si was breneht forward. He had given great asses o te J oi l it 'iree itil l the measure ; and, in many pints, he highly ° f e et!' e leis? Loo of it. He approved of the part stripping non-reel t i s e sa rl toes,see the right of voting, and confining the right of ri r4i ei t. ,e o h i; the resident householders paying 101. rent. ''`'"dtl il ol t l eqlo. a great improvement. Ile approved, ton , Pro s regulation for taking the poll by districts, f , ir Oh e t . c l the regulations connected with that part of 11 ! ‘te l !, 1 lle as subject except one—the proposed Committee ei b ' 4 o , Ob er Privy Council.--(Hear, hear.) That, power vin e ite,,l i i - L Y eon, opinion, greater than the House was authorised testy I L etee e , to any individuals.---(Hear, hear.) If the WI ,e /; F k la ion to be dirided into districts, that could not propel''' s• 1 Teasin g by the Government—it must be done by Parliatne°;ol,l :tik a n Parliament could not and ought not to delegate tb ° l e ~ i t 4: liv, 0 1 to do this, nor buffer the Crown to delegate suebl el r i e i se. 4l I s , to any individuals. There were many defects / 0 ' euto s Zlse e , sure which he could conceive it possible to relne ti lis 09 4: to life would not enter into the details of the measure. ' it e.! (ti safet y be altered in the Committee, but he did not the n ic o s A s i I, 4 ir„) he so as to he made satisfactory. He did not cg t re 4 41 itg a i d ed, with those Members who said it Was f l ee I", i sse tel it a sr o i power of Parliament to alter the franchise. It ~,eri e '' C les i tY right to return Members to Parliament—it was p il l s ! e beetu ' 2 l ' "td I'y, when the sovereign power which resided in , is 0 . %Lar h thought that duty would be more advantageou l l r igO d i 1, 4 4 11, p e , by a different - . etas of persons, Parliament had ~i 501,, e - ' 4 4 114 Pe t , rn :ke any alteration it thought proper, He coni c ( ersi Il i tise i derstand how any person who had voted for th so l itli t tpeceui chising the forty-shilling freeholders could mik e of ali t Iso et! t she'd, ton to the Bill on that score. But when - b e e • f iea the measure contained such a wide—such a sweep of 'l l ' ,b t of position, as to dismiss at once nearly one-1 01. '00, i e li c tli, Members of the House of Commons, repleivite tr_, e ' t kii 1 1 p, odic's,- he felt that the change was much gr e , r 3 be it' . te t il lies he was prepared to agree to.—(Cheers.) t: ie i so w " to sure was much too vast to be contained in a sin g if ' NCl'', 1 Witt n the Bill was brought to him, lie inqui r , li ed leime 4 places were to be disfranchised, sod that lie lied th h , l 'lll r correct. lie was told, inneed, that the gresteets oelle ti toe to, In en taeen to draw the line impartia ly, and Oc t s ee 5 e licti thee puletien wee considered. But was popolatit' n e ee ? i te ee lilet e criterion which ought to determine their dee° olf,oerod ti ‘" 'tithe a , h, k ki A l thought they also ought to look at the situation , , t t l: 1 . : rough as well as at numbers. For example, ° s o _ if -,, e i ' , might consist of a single street, and have tin's b O . 0° 1 ) Nation voters, but it might be close to some liege t° °l ;01 s ee le etio the borough was to be disfranchised—another on_e to pei th ' e elti; t more people,sbut was not near so large as theo is .1 1 0 le, lie,e, joining the disfranchised borough—was to reta t egs eii ei eZt s l e vileges. He was obliged to say with pain 21 01. 0 401 IC% t unless the 13111 received modifications, 'which re o f th; Ito reasonably be expected, so as to change the nc t° eg ~0 0e it l e llt of its propositions—unless many parts of it tve le te 0,401 he tto which he could not hope for, lie could not g' re nd , IliZells port to the measure. He had seen times ° s e , / te,,Vs. than the present times—he believed more peril° ° , o o l ol 04 lop other in our history ; and the country had hee n o os kt k i t l le i safely through them by the wisdom and firr li f t se,ol t . : !toil Government. In dime critical times, manY 0 ,00 1 .,' Wi f ' le ese s tet bars of the boroughs it was now ptoposed ° fp se.' ' *r e Po were the sareguarde of the Constitution. r ieeefiff 4 % t itre prepared, therefore, to wake so large- a 6 7, 5 i °°, O r t h , / itl ts q was said that the measure was one of 'a t o ' er;c e tl, urns, a dolling further changes; that if less ee et e ocie i llieePii done, more changes would speedily be tr,'A, tP t vo, 0 of livid there would be no safety. He did not agree Wi e ire t e ,44l It te e t e l i 4 ' nion. If even in ten yews more would .L., b e t he: r Cit i 41 2 i si l i t i l , " should think that was a good reason yen , t etre i r e ! "les t ''' should be adopted only in part, and thabesetlidei oft should he successively adopted. Ile reale r ': Dep o ri e il S ep t ll had been well stated by his Noble Friend, tb 6 it %t o 4 cellor, that every man who set about inab e in ip ttr ae t t ite,_ bee l ls should reflect that he was about to proeee u 1, 1 . 74 v . , t 4 47:1 path. He was not satisfied that large bed i e. : 0 57 0 :,, lit, jilt edio eil idiom should remain unrepresented ;he w le w elt -0 , '.i42! the manufacturing towns should be reprec en i a th i e i Illieee their representatives should have due , weigy ise e o iel o i 40 or ti but he was not satisfied to adopt the farge epee. e st 1 ,0 , Nt, h by this measure. He differed on this point of sa t/ ht,! hie Sto tti a those wi'l' Whom he hail been in the habi t 0 that to he. l 'ite se el whom he respected; and he must also sta te ', bo d l isirolli I .o,: l ii ' an additional regret in differing from s i lrg re e( °r e fs t' i 011 kl 'h ' 4 ll constituents who had pronounced a verY t ' t bo f -th v it be iiall,kti' favour of Reform. He regretted thi'l ate ttllV e o . l e le tte, occasions when a roan would be more ° c oats, r e el Cktleh; did not act on his own opinion, let the t hcolV o o.oll l t'o z, what they might. It was his duty, b e te hi!'holl; It cepting a charge as a representative, to e do P . .;00 : 10 1' :t 40 nions in'the best manner he could, but ....,„,. 0 , - „ - „ei .. , a i , , .,,,,. ; —(Cheers ) It had been his 100 on (Or e - A AP 0 , i o ' l , a 1 tines differ from his constituents, and he b" The 1 glf°, tY ,o C o formly the same confidence as at first. d no w v io jc o ,/ ;:, 41 , haul limeerly given were honest ; be ba be sho P , t i ,) . 4 11 1 „ 11 % honest opinion ; and he trusted tha t . pin t- ri'eeer t' '-` as I" lie e . r i ks al same confidence placed in him now /Gree t c re lit., 0 ' 6 .. Of (Cheers.) He had done his eluty.-- 4 t he g .tr,pie t i sl us hy The LORD ADVOCATE-s-Afteer ee fielee r - e ol, 10t c which has taken place, to which I g la :, - ;tbi l jo sn otl , I jk 4l , d irected 'my attention, I can sc arcelY,..7 t iol.i t he it ei 4:1 i has'becn touChed on as it relates to r ind _ 0 •0 0 0 1, i f ti 41 4 1 1 cereell to sold any thing at this late P!A CO o . e i ,fio jit 0 , 14 ti on this subject, and I am not diar7, 0 „,, , , of '„p,, necessarily on the House, be rg ing ent a i l a in r o e vi b ea ie °l o: _ b l o o g l e spo e' e l to ;f' . ~, i l k :i:lf ?teop t tively insignificant. I only - outset, flattering myself I may be 4 .,.i n be11 4 bie1 1 ,",61 i ii, - , .%. the general silence of the Scotch Al'_ eo re n s. .o'd 0 te: ll ie, not adverse to the principle of that 10 _ so re of o s l h l l I carried into effect by three -Bills' 01. en i e g r , 10 1.,„, Lee, and Ireland respecively. In theto'Pek (L eoe - ' P o Noble Lord the Member for Tavist . , sod/ ael).-a detail mint distinct and luinlnv