The Sun. — London, England, 1831-08-04 00:00:00

the population was found to vary with the *establishments maintained there by the Government. In 'he very useful notes attached to the population returns of 1821, it wan remarked, that the population had fallen off in Deptford, and increased in Greenwich ; and the falling off in Dept. ford was ascribed to a reduction in the dock-yards ; and the increase in Greenwich was attributed partly to the Naval Arsenal, and partly to the fact of a greater number of pensioners fancying to become resident in that town From the influence, ton, which the Government would exert through these establishments, he contended, that in all cases in which the interests of the metropolitan dis tricts were not directly concerned, Greenwich and its de pendencies would be a nomination borough; but he did not object to it on this account, though it certainly seemed strange the Noble Lord should have selected it under the circumstances. Great, too, he observed, as was the hostility of the Noble Lord to nomination letroughe, the unconstitutional plan of giving to the King the right of nominating Members to that House had been hinted at. It was true the Noble Chancellor of the Exchequer had not expressly stated that this would be hereafter pro posed ; but there was a mode of doing things whi c h, w i t h all apparent caution, rendered perfectly evident the object 'which men had in view—Dum tacent, clamant. The Cabinet, as a responsible body, had expressed no inten tion upon the subject ; but the Noble Lord who had in trosiuced the Bill had spoken of this project as a matter of grave consideration, and it was to be fairly presumed he would not have ventured even upon this expression of opinion without a perfect understanding with the other Members of the Administration upon the subject. The truth was, the Noble Lord was frightened at the pro ',liable consequences of his own measure, and was looking rant, with a provident eye, for remedies to meet the evils which it could not fail to create. But to proceed more immediately to the question before them respecting Greenwich, upon which, to prevent unnecessary delay, lie was svilling to take the discussion upon all the metro-• leslitan districts. He would, in the first place, admit that it had Isoen a blot upon our representative system that the great towns had not been represented ; but this blot he did not believe could be fairly alleged to exist with respect to the metropolitan districts. For these he considered that representation had been amply provided. Though same districts of the great London district did not enjoy the right of returning Members to Parliament, yet be contended that looking upon it as a whole, it could not lie supposed to be imperfectly provided—First, there were tie four Members for the city of London ; then two for estminster, and two for Southwark ; making eight in all. To these, he maintained, might be properly added athe two Members for the county of Middlesex. Because these Members were not returned by a rural population, !hut simply by town influence. In an extremely valuable rreturn, they had stated the number of families in the county eL Middle ex which were engaged in agriculture, the enesiber concerned in trade and manufactures, and the m renber of those employed in neither. From this return i t -ppearetl that in agriculture there were only 9,393 fault le s engaged, while 101,3b6 were engaged in trade an d n ninufactut el. This showed how large was the pro portion of town influence to that of agriculuiral, since the ratio of those engaged was as 161,000 to 9,300. rural population in Middlesex did not a ln lt d o e g e et d the t r L ai ! ' , taunt to more than 70 or 80,000, while the total populatin. ' of the county was 1,140,000. Thus it appeared there ..'vere ten Members for the metropolitan and to tt -so one of the Members for Surrey might -lily added ; because, considering the in his opinion, ly, t 5 1 of Southwark, and observing influence of the boroue u was a town population, and tat the popul a r' i on of Brixts could be no doubt that a population, there not a rural a ,uffici, sut influence to return cancan P ° P ul ' it' ion exerted nail population of the Membe The whole of t i ts Surrey ani s tente d t o 130 ; 000, while the n 'iwn population k3f Scluthw ark and Brixton am ounted to 39,000. The eonsequen ee of all this was, the metropolitan districts had televen M embers a—the four for the City of London, the two for Westminster, the two for Southwark, the two Tor Alik tlesex, and the one for Surrey. Never therefore, ate asset: ted, was there juster cause for surprise than that ben nut re should be added to them, giving the metropo iit","7 astricte Members. If Ministers were to say that the r : inciple on which they proceeded was population, or 'contef a at sion to the taxes, this case of enfranc.hisement Woak be intelligible ; but in admitting that all which they had h eretofore done was done well, he was bound to sty '?his et -as not the principle upon which they proceeded. It Was n at the principle of it that England was to lose forty 'Meng terra and the metropolitan districts gain ten, in con bevies ice of the increase of population and increased re turn t t the revenue which had of late years arisen. This case o f Greenwich was the only one to which such a prin ciple'/ Dad been yet applied, and nobody could pretend to „at It was in conformity with the principle of the Bill.— Why,i h e :sked, was it that they did not apply the same rule to the r Zetropolitan districts as to the borough of Liverpool—a town' not surpassed in wealth 3nd intelligence —and which was the :rat link between this country and anothe r world ? Why st lquld shay leave it to the simple ',enjoys nent of its own Members, When they gave additional l‘lerd )ers to a district which alreat!jr had eleven represen tatisa sin Parliament? Or, why did that' not, if the rule was s , good one, extend it to the great town of Liverpool, tOsI gas -e it additional representation? There were many 'large pit ices in the neighbourhood, which had not hereto !Tore take. I any part in the election of Members. They 'were to be incorporated with Liverpool, and thus the con tltituency v, 'as to be increased : bat yet there was to be no increase in the representation. This, he contended, proved - 'he stropolitan districts was an excep 'that the cast 'of the met- 'Po' !ception to th e general rule they bad laid down ; because, if the prinap le which they now applied to these districts ' , were cons:dee.. das a leading and guiding one, they could , no : poss ibl y • h , ye neglected the claim of Liverpool to addi iPPresenta tion, whether upon the groun ds of popu tional ution o r of cants. ibotion to the taxes. Neither could they h av e l'een, when e nfranchising (acid therefore not, as . the case of Liverpool, fettered by pre . t m ight be 1-;leaded ith • • seriptios4, e,ontent 'a 70 or giving merely two Members to 23irininzlions„ with its the irBo,ooo inhabitants, when they .eontitmed ite two Men ciii to Mahon, which was only caved (rota partial &sires hats e at from having ten p ersons -akove the 4,000. He . 1 is enfranchisement.tlow stated the reasons for wilieeh he w0u1.. 1 oPP° se A The first •h e upon the House was, that -proposition he ve,sbed to urk, ' , of the country, the I ondom i n reference to the other part. • represented. The second district was already sufficientl vage of ~, our representative system was , that the ancient , ' all places of returning - liinl been to give an equ, al right t‘ population or con ;two Members without reh'vence to th , 'ir the third „was, that Ministers itribution to the ta xes. Ana' for example, in lhad heretofore a dhered to t.''is rule, a" ls t sebe eases of Calne and 3.lsuacheas;,.", the one o: , v, Aiich . they determined to ret.‘ , in, and the ether to sent, ire two Members. Having' necordinblY adhered wt., re . bound in all t sther cases to the ancient maw, they in the r, . - ese n t instance to show why they o,..uarted • •vour of the metropolitan districts, and' a,” hat from it in te 'iarities of these places which had w • L I were the peen. . e , g e , The point was, could that case be made with their minds. consideration of population, and contri out which, upon a sould entitle these districts to addi butien to the n taxes, It could be made ou t, but it told tional representatives.. ) _,. to one of those distric t s -- again.t themsel ves. Allu 'mg e might observe that it was the parish of Marylebone—h. because, according to the about to acquire two rights s' a. St 101. householders who Bill, if he understood it rightly, -a were to have a vote had not a vote for the city of Lotult. for the county of Middlesex, w hi c h, a cisied to their rght of voting for the new borough, would create A double right. Now this representation, he considere d , was little wanting to the p.' risk of Marylehone. It so hap.oe.ned that there were a t least one hundred Members of PaetuZnent resident in that parish, And of these very many had ees.lly an identity of interest with the pariah. In its Select Yes::; there were no less eau; ten Members of Parliament, and le could appeal to lion. li.Johers present whether these M e ns;:ers were the least frequent in their attendance. — From this he argued th.s.t there In; little danger that the interests of this district, which had eir;.,eally so many representatives, could suff er from not being enf#l4r If, hired. however, it was deemed improper that the inhabitants of so rich and extensive a district should be left without their due influence in the general representation, why did they not_ proceed u Yorkshire. upon the same p;an as in Lancashire , and York Why did the riot g . i.vo2 e en itlitionai repre sentatives to the county of Mid dlesex? They 4404 think they had done little in adding ten representatives to th e eleven already enjoyed b th e ntettnplitan districts, Inv they were much mista ken . Th ey had deranged t he balance of interests in this countryr eiailer more than ;yes wise, a nd in a degree which would any endeavour to ad just them h ereafter a matter of hop eless difficulty. almost This balance was founded on prescriptio n o t n it was not the more un j ust or the less to be respected ac count, and i: p roduced a regularity and security w th i i ‘ s h, in t he practical %coc kin g of the new scheme of the Const.'‘t 1 tion, he feared it w oisld not be possible to ensure . Let th em - i n ot lay the flattering u nction to their souls that the whole effect of this proc eeding yenta be . the conferring of twenty representatives upon the metropoWan districts. It would cre ate a new or der of men in that licuse, which would a lter in character and increase in p off er at earl; they came i n c ontact successive election. An imus - like, the more with their native ear th, the g reater would be their force , the higher their hope, and vigaut. Another point which might be urged was, that by this addition of p oint repre .,etetiess they were giving an undue influence to the more active portion of the House that were deaironq of change 9, ,nd that which, particularly in the present instance, was, from the vicinity, and from the aggregated nature of their constituency, more immediately under its controul ; fur the Members for towns, he contended, must of necessity be persons of more active habits than those who sat for counties; and this, as well from the circumstance• whereby they could alone recommend themselves to the representation as from the character of their constituency. This, he thought, was no reflection on the . . . . country gentlemen. On the contrary, their indisposition lightly to alter ancient institutions and established usages formed an admirable ingredient in the constitution of the House, and enabled it, when combined with the laudable desire of changes (let it be called )upon the part af the town representatives for the sake of improvement, by the balance of these conflicting opinions, to ap proximate to, if they did not arrive at truth. But now, by taking away from the one class of represen tatives, and adding to the other, they were doing injury to the agricultural interests, without conferring any !tette- fit upon the general interests of the country. Looking, he would say, for uxarop'e, to the county of Middlesex, lie would be inclined to conclude that local intere+tM and local attachments would go for nothing, but that men should be chosen, as in the case of one of the Hon. Mem bers for the county to which he had alluded, for the marked line of politics they had pursued. He saw the Hon. Member for Middlesex selected to represent that great county, thou.;h he possessed no local connections there, and _ . selected, indeed, evidently for the line of conduct he had tdopted in polities, which was that of watching with the greatest closeness the expenditure of the country. lie did not object to the Hon. Member on the fact that such had been the cause of his selection. The Hon. Mem- tier had only zealously performed what he conscieutiously believed to be a platelet duty, and he was rewarded for it by the representation of the metropolitan county. The only reason for which he alluded to the circumstance, was to show the sort of men that these metropolitan represen tatives were likely to be, and to mark in censequence the great additional influence which such men, so closely in ommunication with their constituents, must have in that House.—(l•lear, hear.) There would be in this manner ten Members for London, and the change would be most considerable. Viewing that change in its future effects by those which, so far as circumstances permitted, it had already produced, he must say, that he did not think it a change that was likely, upon the whole, to work well for the benefit of the country. He viewed it as a de parture from the ancient usages of the country, and he could not but anticipate that it would not be for the better. He thought it would aggravate the loss the agri cultural interest were about to sustain by the other parts of the Bill, and that it would give an undue influence to the popular voice in that House. On these grounds he should certainly resist giving the franchise, in the manner now proposed, to Greenwich and Woolwich.—( Hear, hear.) Lord ALTHORP observed, that he must do the Right Hon. Gentleman the credit of saying that he had argued the question strictly to the point, and be had stated his opinions with considerable ability. He felt a difficulty in following the Right Hon. Gentleman, but, at the same time, he thought it was his duty to state the grounds on which he differed from the Right Hon. Gentleman in his view of this part of the Bill. The Right Hon. Gen tleman seemed to think that the proportion of Members now about to be given to the metropolitan districts was much too large. Oa that point they were decidedly at variance with each other ; for he (Lord Althorp) felt con. vinced, that in the line which the Ministers had adopted on this subject, they had not in the least degree ex ceeded the proportion to which the metropolitan districts were fairly entitled. The first thing which struck them in fratning this Bill, and which always had been consi dered a great grievance, was the circumstance that large tracts of the metropolis (if he might use such an expres sion) were totally unrepresented in that House.--(Hear, hear.) In remedying that deficiency, the question was, how were they to apply the remedy ? The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to think that the populous districts might have been added to those in their neighbourhood which already sent Members to that House; and he supposed that such a course would be more consistent with the general nature of the measure, and with the principle on which the Constitution had hitherto acted. The Right Honourable Gentleman was, however, quite mis taken in that opinion ; for the principle on which the Constitution had hither to acted was stated by the Right Hon. Gentletnan himself as a principle by which repre sentativeswere given, not to the populousness of the towns, nor their si r e, hnt to 4 town as a separate and distinct place. That was stated by the Right Hop, Gentleman to he the rule; and if it were so, the plan proposed by the Right Hon. Gentleman would ba the exception. The course pursued in flee piq was pot ; therefore, a departure from the principle of the Constitution, but an adherence to it. But, putting that consideration out of the question, he would eels whether the House would be prepared to add hose new representatives to those places which already possessed Members. He thought they would certainly answer in the negative, for if they were so to add them, it would almost antoont to a disfranchisement of the electors in the old places.—(lleac, hea t .) The franchise of the present inhabitants of Westminster wool() he diminished almost to nothing, if Pancras, and Maryleborte, and the tdjoining places were to he added to the present number of its electors. It would be almost like throwing the po pulation of a large town into a borough ; and he thought they could ;eet adopt such a plan with any degree of fair ness or consistency,—(Hear, hear.) The course, there foie, which they had taken was, to poets:der these places rs seperate boroughs, in the same manner that Westminster, Southwark, and Lnmlon, though adjoining each other, had dways been considered ~t; se,;arate. and distinct boroughs, and had always sent separate Menthe:es to Parlia went, In doing this, he thought they had taken the course moat consistent with reason, and most in unison with the principle of the present state of the representation. The Right lion. Gentleman had iaer . .t told the Committee that these representatives of the metropcdiran districts • would give an overwhelming or overbearing power to the metropolis over the other represented places in the empire. With all doe deference to the present Members for the metropolis--notwith4anding the respect due to them as representatives of large bodies pf men of wealth and in telligence—he mutt nay, that the deference they obtained • in that House was not so overhearing on that aecsuat .done, but that the deference paid them arose also in a considerable: degree front the respect felt for their personal characters, and front their intelligence and their habits of business.--(Hear, hear, I'o4. the: Ministerial, and some signs of dissent from the Opposition ilenehes.) Hon. Members might agree or not with what he was stating, but he would state truly his opinion on all points on which he addressed the 1-10)125c,---4Cheers)—and in doing t he was sure he should not, isa th f s present instance, ffend his Ilon, friends the representatives of the City.— (Hear, hear, hear.) Its might perhaps be prejudiced by his old habits of thinking in favour of county Members; but he must say, that he thought they, and not the metro politan Members, were the men most marked in the recent h. isions on this Bill.—(llear,) It was not the Members who . came front Westminster, Southwatk, and London, but those who came from parts of the country, which the Right lion. G ,.:ntletnan seemed to suppose had little weight in that House, a ~_]tose conduct was watched with the e r e atest degree of nic‘.'tY.—(Hear, hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentleman :: 1 ( 1 spoken of the want 'af zeal and want of activity of the county Mem bers, es compared with that of the representatives fur the towns ; but in that opinion he not at all agree with the ti4be Hon. Gentleman. On the coo trakv, he believed that die Lminty Members performed t h e gre ,4,,,i ieart of the practical Inasineae of that House. It was also skilte4 Piev.t. there ought to be no hiembees for the inhabitants of that ,',l;:trrYiekti):°vneet'e Members cif rPtra ly il( of tg s! 2 e Ike did not think bat tne;! wa s a fit objection to be e4tat.eipcd. They e a h ttaus f look "' „ state Of t h e . const , t i t jo i t constituent hotly', to crie assino e tt s o the particular pujo eas:: of men i, into that House. 4 1 4 ti lie saw no ream what •' ' side of Oxford cver why a man who iiveie On ,the. • Ij# „.. • itieet should be presented b y that i; . .4 . 41 en itivio;: the elective franchise at the mine time with the inhabitants a - ,f the south side of Oxford-street. In drawing the line of distinctiOae, he did not think that they ought to draw a, lineshatWoal:4 eesyde slit most wealthy, in par,t na.4.r4olitai.t! district.ihe ge f ererta lueation ll,vingof the :1 111 a ll u al s id e et , Pt l °l l Fs C l l : 6 a u u bs l d e r nowYtiolts 5 71 ; o w il t) el or two urn the pat ticuiae p il io of Greenwich. It they were iiuOut to give representatives to t tims,4 r"9 of the metropolis which were not now represented, le w4lmemf t ; r,"'7 whether .hey would not take the same view with respect to con ferring the I,..enehise upon the populous places on the south as on the no,eth alike of the river—and whether any °them course could possibiy been justifiable? The Right GenileMan had said that the pe.ap:e of Deptford and Gree4.7eich depended in a great measure upon the Government. it wee true that they did some what depend on the Government, bu s t tt to any ma :, • merial extent so 44, to affect the freedom of titair election of representatives. • ;till, howeyer, if that were he ca.se, L'ne fact of the Provernmnt% possr9sing an in fluence came rather oddly aa an objection from the rouths of those who had been in the conese of these discussions so repeatedly objecting to this pill as a measure that was calculated to destroy the influence of therown.—(llear, hear.) It Was supposed that Deptford and Greenwich crOuld become but a sort of nornnation borough for the Crown. Why the idea of a nomination borough with a body of 40,000 electors was an impossibility.—(lle tr.) The Government might possess some influence there—it was very probable it would—but not enough to affect the freedom of election. Under all these circumstances he in , must say, that he did not see any justice the arguments by which the Right Hon. Gentleman sought to exclude Deptford and Greenwich from the right of sending Mem hers into that House.—(Hear.) Mr. H. GURNEY spoke in so low a tone of voice, and amidst so much confussion, that he was scarcely au dible in the gallery. He was understood to say that he should vote in favour of the clause : that the large po pulous towns had formerly been selected as places fit to send representatives, and that so far as that part of the Bill was concerned it was but a return to the ancient Const:tution of the country. Besides, the Right Hon. Gentleman had a short time since advanced an argument that he now seemed to have forgotten, and that, if well founded, was much in favour of the present clause. That argument was, that by this Bill a great number of Memb,.rs was taken from the south and given to the north of England, so that the latter would have a great preponderance. Now, by this clause that evil would be completely re. moved, for the repres ntatives of the metropolitan districts would be a balance to those of the great towns in the north of England. Colonel WOOD was att.:lid his Hon. Friend who had just sat down would not find that these new metropolitan boroughs would afford any refuge to those gentlemen who now found their way into that House through the means of the old close boroughs.—(Hear, hear.) He feared, too, that officers from India, merchants in active business, and retired old gentlemen would not be now likely t o find their way into the House through these boroughs. H e had before suggested that there should be two new Mem bers fur Yorkshire, and last night it had been suggested that there should be two more Members for Middlesex. He thought that suggestion was an admirable one. He had looked into the subject, and he believed it would be found that Yorkshire and Middlesex corresponded together in the amount of their population. of their wealth, and their intelligence. The Tower Hamlets were a distinct county of themselves. They had a distinct county rate, a distinct Lord Lieutenant, and a militia of their own ; and if two Members were given to the Tower Hamlets and two for the eastern division of the county, the place of election being fixed at Hackney, where the county meet ings were now generally held, and two other Members for the western division, the place of election being fixed at Brentford, it would be a more acceptable arrangement than that of these boroughs. It would be a much more respectable constituency ; and, by enfranchising the copyliolders, it might be made most numerous. In this way Lambeth, instead of being a metropolitan bo rough, might receive the right of voting for Surrey, which might have two additional Members; and Surrey might be divided into two parts for the purposes of the election. The same observation would apply to Kent, where, instead of two Members being given to Greenwich, Woolwic), and Deptford, two more Members might he given to the county, which might be divided for similar purposes. He recommended this the more, as the population of these places was a migratory population. For these reasons he should vote against the transfer of the franchise to Green• wich and Woolwich. Mr. C. WYNNE objected to giving Members to these metropolita❑ districts, as their Members, from their vici nity to the places they represented, would be more under the controul of their constituents than any other Members in that House. It was impossible to doubt that fact after what they had seen with respect to one Member for Lon don, who was called to instant account by his constituents for giving an independent vote on an ;distract part of the Bill, and after what they had observed with respect to the late Member for Southwark, for his conduct in a late Parliament. After they had observed these things, he asserted it was impossible to doubt that such an influence as would be exercised by these boroughs was most dan gerous. The Noble Mover of this Bill had once enter tained a similar opinion, when he stated that many of the evils of the first French Revolut'on were to be attributed to the immediate influence possessed and exercised over the Government by the sections of Paris. There could he no doubt, that whenever a violent clamour had arisen in the great towns upon any particular subject, it had been checked by the influence of the counties, among which it was not so easily spread ; and there could be as little doubt, that if these metropolitan boroughs were erected, a clamour raised in Westminster would be in stantly communicated to London, to Southwark, to Mary lebone, the Tower Hamlets, and all the rest, and that by these means the Members tot these pl ices would acquire a greater degree of influence in that House than was pos sessed by any other March ors. _ _ _ An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, said that he did not entertain any of those fears which seemed to influence so much the opinions of Hon. Gen- tlemen on the other side of the House. He did no think there was a material difference between the intim ence exercised by constituents who might, on the following morning, call their Members to account, and that pos sessed by those who, by residing fifty miles off, would not call him to account till twelve hours afterwards. He could not but wonder at the supposition of the Right Hon. G en . t!eman, that county 'Members were comparatively inactive. What ! did the Right Hon. Gentleman forget the ques tion of the Corn Laws ?—(Hear, hear.) Could any body of men have been more united, or have acted more toge ther than county Members had done on that occasion ? Then, again, on the introduction of a Game Bill, was there ever a more constant and ready attendance than there had been of the county Members on such a question,...,. (Hear, hear.) And even now, let any Member talk of the question of wool or Lops, and he would see the countiy gentlemen at once taking steps on the subject, not only With as mileli zeal and activity, but with even more than was generally displayed by the representatives of any town whatever. He thought that the Government had taken a wi+e course in this case. He thought that these layge places ~ yoold send reasonahle men of business into that House; and, for his part, he entertained no fear of the gentlemen demagogues that might be elected. He had always observed, that if such persons found their way into that Home, they either by the excess of their zeal, or, if ever representative could he influenced by bad motives, they exhibited motives which gained them no suppo r t ;,.., that House, and they not only exercised less influence, they became more powerless within those walls than they would have been out of them....-( Hear, bear.) Ile should support the clause, and at some future opportunity should express more fully his opinions in favour of the Bill, Mr, Alderman WOOD said, that be had been provoke . ] on a great maity n.'.casiotts to rise and say something in answer to the remarks made upon the Members ftie thp city of London, but he had not done so from a fear that he should be assisting in delaying the Bill.--(Hear, hear.) He had not allowed himself to be provoked by the remarks of one Right Hon. gentleman, but another had got up, and had, in the same spirit, referred to the Members for the city of London. the Right lion. gentleman had treated the electors of the city as men of the lowest order, and as men who acted upon principles they did not un derstand. He must tell tin s.: Right Hon, Gentlemen that they were mistaken in thus treating the Livery, for that many among that body were men of as high • character, and of as much intelligence, and held a rank as elevated, and enjoyed a fortene as ample as any men in that House, be they as high as they might.--(Hear, Lear,) One of • the Right Hon. Gentlemen had distinctly alluded to the circumstance of one of his (Alderman Wood's) colleagues being called before his constituents, or rather voluntarily going before iltem—(A I,ugh)—to explain his conduct. He believed that rpos of the Aienthers were called to ac count by the men who sent them there, in a manner more severe than his Hon. Colleague had been called to account , and some or them, he believed, had obtain e d their seats upon promises full as strong a , 4 those given by his Ron. Colleague or himself.. put thep it was r a id t h a t personsso near to their constituents could be iii . stantlY collet] tO ac count, so that a great influence would be possessed in that House by the electors of the metropolitan boroughs, as they were called. Why there was a small borough, 100 zoile;t from that House, where the Hon. Member had bee n .., • calien toz..oui4t foi 6: 4 ab,,t - i;# -fut;... '...e E;:ye lgon a o.t.w r.) s an cd the bort;'ugl6 Where was the dicei , ence( l- lea . t .• ' Tile Illght Hon. Gentleman did 110* ti to have he'" of the feelings of that claas of people. Then they were ' told that the House had met last Saturday because there was to le f. tueatii - 4 o; Op Li7e7y, to complain of the de- lais of the Bill. 'But had there been •a nesting "if hey dill not get a great body together, because they saw a change—(llear, hear, and much laughter)—they saw that men had come to their senses--(Hear, hear, and a laug h) —anti so they oid tio - ? F r ept, lie • c'tuld, not but remark upon the inconsistency Ot the afzuments of thd.e woo op posed Deptford • having Members because' the'populatio n amounted to 50,000, when they had all along been com plain:a-; fa r t t!! :t boroughs which were to retain their Members were only nounnattan itoroqits, ' t .'',;,l; resi;ect to the electors of the'city of 'London,' be' tintht sty, that • there was no class equal to thetri in any 'other place. In picot of iti.io, :;.,-; 7...efrretito the meeting at the flans ion- where a bOtlY of wait ass,:tniiii, po.sc.ed pe';"r ,a of more wealth than any o t h er bod y of 'men in the olive., W...s the Right Hon. 'Gentleman a f r aid of the influence of such men, when be i.alk, - .;d et the 'same time about; preserv• ing the influence of pr6pet:ty.—(Hear, Itar.) A fart , pm tion of . these men were now voters for the city of Lott- lon, and who, if the Bill passed, would have a vote for the ;daces where they resided on their own property. Lord VALLETORT—As the Hon. Alderman bad as serted that there had been no meeting and no resolutions, he begged leave to read to the House an extract he had made rout the Times newspaper of this day ; he had been led to it by a passage in the leading article, stating, that &hough the meeting of the Livery had been deferred, it was still held in terrorem over the House, for the purpose warning those among whom he (Lord Valletort) sat, that there was a sword much more dangerous than that of Damocles suspended over their heads.—(Much and loud cheering.) He trusted that his Hon. Friends would treat this threat with the utter and entire contempt which he felt for it.—(Continued cheers from the Opposition benches.) The resolutions to which he referred ran thus :—" That i❑ consequence of the progress made in the Committee in the House of Commons since the signing of the requisition !o the Lord Mayor, particularly on Saturday last, when the di , qualifying clauses were nearly terminated, and irons the fear that the proceedings of any public meeting might by those engaged in the present factious and unprincipled opposition to the measure, be used as a new means of cans. ing, a frivolous and vexatious delay."—(Hear, from Mr. Alderman Wood.) Tile Hon. Alderman cheered that expression, but he (Lord Valletott) challenged any man to assert justly either of himself, or of those with whom he acted, as far as he knew their motives from constant inter. course, that they had caused a frivolous or vexatious delay. —(Cheers.) He denied the accusation most positively, that it was entirely false, and that those to whom it was ap plied were totally guiltless. After noticing the supposed frivolousand vexatious delay, the resolution went on to state, the " this meeting withdraw their requisition for the pre ►ent, and express their desire that a Common Hall should not immediately he held ; anti that the Liverymen now as sembled do form themselves into a Committee, with power to add to their numbers, and that such Committee do meet again on Monday next, or earlier if expedient, to consider whether it will thee be n' cessary to adopt any and what measures regarding the passing of the Reform Bill." This was to have one Committee assembled here for the pur pose of considering how the measure was to be carried through Parliament, and another Committee, or perhaps more—eight of them for the difkrent districts of the metropolis—sitting elsewhere to watch and cantroul the proceedings of Parliament. Such a course could not but have a most injurious and unconstitutional effect in the House; but he hoped that none with whom lie coincided would be deterred from the manly discharge of their duty. —(Cheers.) He had brought down the extract he had read without being, at all determined to use it ; but after what bad passed, he thought himself in duty bound to produce the resolutions.—(Mr. Alderman Wood observed, that they were not resolutions.) If they were not reso lutions he did not know what were, and those who framed them called them so, for they said that " the following re solutions were unanimously adopted."—(Much cheering and laughter.) What there was reason to laugh at he could not see, fur it seemed to him a very serious matter that any set of men should stand, as it were, at the doors of the House so presumptuously to attempt to influence its proceedings.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAN was very glad the Noble Lord had considered these resolutions (as lie termed them) of so much importance—(Hear, hear)—and be was very sorry they had affected his Lordship so deeply as to cause him to lose his temper.—(Cheers, and laughter.) The Noble Lord committed this great error : he made no dis tinction between a general act of the constituent body and the decision of a few individuals who met to consider whether it might or might not be expedient to call the Livery together for the purpose of expressing its opinion. —(Hear, hear.) lie (Alderman Waitlitnan) knew and respected those who bad so assembled, but he had seen none of them, because he wished to be entirely indepen dent of any extraneous influence ; but he was well aware that there exis•ed an indignant feeling on the part of the people that it should have been asserted that there had been any change in the public mind. He advised those who made such statements to beware Low they provoked the proof. Certain it was that the great body of the nation was disgusted with the vexatious delay that had occurred ; night after night they saw the same Members speak, the same speeches delivered, and the same valuable time tni-spent.—(Hear, bear.) Not less than 150 speeches bad been uttered by six Members on the other side, and it was natural that the public should be nauseated arid indignant.—(Continued cheers.) Under such circum stances, motives would be imputed, and unfavourable conclusions could not be avoided. When the Right Honourable Baronet talked of adding the new electors of the neighbourhood of the metropolis to the voters for the city, he must have forgotten that the constituency in London already amounted to about 13,000.—(Cheers.) The French revolution had been talked of—it had been made a bug-bear to frighten the weak-minded ; but it had really nothing to do with the subject. Had the Right Hon. Baronet and his friends continued in power, and re sisted the just and general demand for Reform, then indeed it would have been in point to talk of the perils of the French revolution.—(Cheers from all sides.) It was the perpetuation of abuses that led to the French revolu tion, and might have produced an English revolution ; but, fortunately, the people were not driven to take their affairs in their own hands, anti the present healing mea sure was brought in to avert an evil which the Right Hon. Baronet and his friends had precipitated. When the Right Hon. Member (Mr. Wynn) spoke of the low class of voters that would be introduced by this part of the measure, he (Mr. Alderman Waithman) 'eight be ex cused for saying that the constituency of the metropolis would well bear a comparison with that of Montgomery shire.—(Cheers and laughter. ) Lord VALLETORT added, that two accusations had been brought against him—first, that he had lost his tem per; and secondly, that he had considered the resolutions he hid read important. He might have shown warmth ; but there was difference between warmth and loss of tent per. —(Hoar, hear.) The only thing that could make him angry would be, the supposition that he looked upon the resolutions as of the slightest importance—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition benches)—or that their being held in terroretn would produce the slightest effect. Mr. HODGES contended, that the newly franchised places would take pride in returnin g p ro pe r Me mbers ; and reminded the House , that a week before the Reform had a presented a p e titi o n from ration of its rights after the B o i e l , l en w a s ‘ viei,, b r ought prayin in g , tilltee re st Bill had been introduced, he presented another petition withdrawing the former one, and expressing, a hearty con currence in the plan of Reform. Sir C. WETHERELL said, that when the Hon. Alder man (Waithman) spoke of the six Members who had made 150 speeches, he forgot to add how he had himself crushed, quashed, exhaled, and eva p orated their addresses b y his o wn sudorific attempts of the same kind.—(Cheers and laughter.) As to the nature of the representatives from the new metropolitan districts, they might be demagogues, but they could hardly be gentlemen—and the word dema gogue was the very antipodes of the word gentleman. The Metropolitan linion wou ld a d d ten Members to the eleven which the Hon. Baronet had shown alread y belon g ed to London and its vicinity : he did not pretend that it would even then be as powerful as the Birmingham Union, with which Ministers corresponded--e( Hear)--but it would at least be a novelty in the Constitution that such a united body should exist in Parliam , -nt. Out of it much mischiel might arise. Already the Livery were seen acting in close concert, and ez.ereising , 4n unconstitutional and ngerous influence; and although the constituent body might not yet be engaged, a C,omtnittee was sitting week by week to de cide upon the necessity of calling it together. One Hon. Alderman (Thompson) had been required to attend his constituents, to account for his conduct ; and although his attendance had been termed " voluntary," he defied any man to produce a sense of that word justifying such an application in all the Diction tries, from Johnson down to Entick.—(Cheers.) Dr. Johnson had said, that the ccnO d'o,',lir; was liLe throwing a man out of a garret window and recommending him to fall to the ground. (Laughter.) Such was the recommendatory character of the meeting of the Livery to which the llon. Alderman had been summoned. What might not be the case when the representatives were increased, if at present the four 31:_qnbers for thq city po - ;,1,1 con',roujed, ar i d qo dia,grc,ce fuliy trey ted'hy ;heir constituents ?—(oheqs, and reiterated cries of I .‘ froth Aider Men Wood, Waithman, and Th o mpson.) Such an amendment of the present system m ight produce a sort of departmen t al representation ; but it could not occasion such a ch o ice of Members as would protecttne intrieots of the whole guttunenq . The lion. and Learned Memher then complained that the ' principle of population which bad been applie'd to the di;franchised boroughs had not been extended to the enfranchised places; and asked w hy Chelsea----por phel;ea--,lead been o mitted by the Is - Ale scheme? The only reas on seemed to be that Chelsea was a b ove the Net); London -bridge, while Greenwich was below it ; and that in the latter there was an hospital for sailors, while in the f oo ncr; ..illlOiW . esobli:4nneiit for 6Ut t liers.- The distiaction, 'therefore; was beten bli; e i i ‘ n i a re d coat, and that was enough for the Noble Lord. M an y other large and populous places near London had in the !time way been rtnfairly neglet:ted by the 1 1';obl.e Garrat, for instance, where there could b e -tic, ,ord.— in finding a returning tqacer, inasmuch' es a MayorWa's an nually electe:l.—(Cheers and langliteo Grass-g r o w in g Battersea, cabbage-eultiyating Vulham, 1 . 41 Richmond, and pil.lirestine 'eterhafif, together with the lofty and rival eminences of Highgate and Hampstead, I s , clusions for courtship and cockneyism, were equally di sre gard e d. 'Why, too, was unhappy Redd& omitted? Why was not that affluent and hospita'de vicinity to return its, demagogue-gendetnati or gentlentin-dema gogue.—(Cheers.) It might be reasonable to restore to Greenwich the representation she formerly possessed ; but it did not at all follow, that because Guildford was to lose one, Greenwich should gain two. The people of Eng• land might exclaim, Vous plaisantez ici (an expression, by the way, rather more natural to the French ;) but he could reply, that the present was no subject of joke, but a very grave and set ions matter of deliberation. Whatever silence might be obstinately observed on the otl.er side— however the Noble Lord might submit to a sort of volun tary lock jaw—(Laughter)—the people of England would expect a justification of the conduct of Ministers, and would require that the decisions of the House should be founded at least upon the principles of common honesty. Green wick had nevertheless been selected for peculiar favour (in conjunction with Deptford and Lewisham), and perhaps the next time the Admiralty barge sailed thither, she would be laden with the precious but prec sious cargo of two new Members. The Hon. and Learned Gentleman concluded by asserting, that this portion of the Bill was founded upon no principle meritorious or Parliamentary. Mr. WEBB (we believe) referred to something that had fdl'en from Mr. Alderman Wood, and said that his lion. Colleague had recently been burnt in effigy for the vote he had given regarding Downton, not by a party of true and zealous Reformers, but by a body headed by one of the late Members, who had lost his seat for not voting with the Right Hon. Member for Queen's County on the Finance Committee. Mr. Alderman WOOD explained that he bad not the slightest intention to cast personal reflections. . . Mr. Alderman THONII ) SON would not have risen but for the - now four or five-times repeated remarks of the Hon. and Learned Member for Boroughbridge, regarding the conduct of his constituents and himself.—(Hear, hear.) Those remarks reflected on his character as an independent Member of that House, and he could no longer preserve silence. In the face of the whole House be must assert, that the Hon. and Leaned Member was totally misin formed, when he said that he (Mr. Alderman Thompson) had been summoned before his constituents to answer for his conduct and to make peace with them, in order that he might not be compelled to relinquish his seat. He had heard that a certain number of the Livery were about to meet at Guildhall for the purpose of considering his con duct, which was thought to be at variance witk the sort of promise he had given. Never had any Member of that House been more free and unshackled than he had been throughout the eleven )eirs during which lie had held a seat there. At the last election, indeed, when the feel. ings of the people all over the country, and especially in the city of London, were greatly excited on the subject of Reform, he was asked by his constituents whether he would support the Bill which had been introduced by his Msjesty'a Ministers, in the same way in which he bad supported it in the preceding Session.—(Hear.) In reply to that question, he had stated most unequivocally that he would do so. He was further asked, would he pursue such a course of conduct as should be best calculated to prevent the principles of the Bill from being ft ittered away and impaired ? To that, a'so, he gave his entire acquiescence. --(Hear.) But he stated at the same time, that if there were in schedule A, or in schedule B, a borough to be totally or partially disfranchised, to the partial or total disfranchisement of which he saw rational objections, he would reserve to himself the right to resist such parts of those schedules.—(Hear, hear.) He would appeal to his Hon. Colleagues if such ha I not been his declaration to his constituents.—(Hear, hear.) Ile should, therefore, not allow himself to be told in that Assembly that he was a disgraced or dishonoured Member of it.—(Cheers.) Look ing back over the whole course of his conduct in that House, he could not recognise an occasion on which it was possible to presume that he had given a less honour able or disinterested vote than the Learne.l Member for Boroughbridge.—(Much cheering.) On the occasion which had been so often, and he would add, so unfairly referred to—(Hear)—he came into the House at the con clusion of the debate on the case of Appleby. He was acquainted with the peculiar circumstances of that town, and he knew many of the persons who had signed the peti tion ; but he confessed he did not know that the object of the gentlemen with whom he then voted, were so irre gular as to get up a debate in the case of every borough, on the question whether that borough should be defended by Counsel at the bar of the House.—(Hear.) On con sideration, he was convinced that he had acted injudi ciously in supporting that motion ; but he was sure it would be conceded to him, that it was no very rare occurrence for gentlemen to vote in a division, with out having heard the whole debate upon the subject on which they divided.—(Heir.) lie still thought that it was his duty to state in that debate what he knew respecting the parish in which Appleby was situated. He thanked th'; Committee for having heard his explanation with so much attention.—(Hear.) He did not think that it was alto gether liberal on the part of lion. Gentlemen to refer, night after night, to his conduct in a particular instance. —(Hear, hear.) He hoped that, after the explanation which he had made, his feelings would not again be as sailed by such dissertations us the Learned Member for Boroughbridge had that evening indulged in. —(Hear, hear.) He would now only detain the Committee by one remark upon the question which had been asked by the Hon. and Learned Member—namely, why it was that Greenwich and Deptford were to have representatives, whilst they were refused to Chelsea? Now, he (Mr. Al derman Thompson) thought that he could give a better reason for the distinction than that which the Learned Member had given as the answer to his own question.— (Hear.) It was this—that there were in those places a great many extensive ship-yards and manufacturing houses, and that the population was revectable, important, and wealthy.—(Hear, hear.) Sir C. 'WETHERELL sail that it was not he, but the Hon. Alderman behind him (Alderman Wood), who had referred to the debate upon Appleby. . Mr. Alderman WOOD gave a flat and distinct contra- diction to the statement of the Hon. and Learned Mem ber for Boroughbridge.—(Repeated shouts of laughter.) The debate upon Appleby had been referred to by the Right Hon. Member for Montgomery.—(War.) Mr. A. BARING said, that when the Hon. Alderman had pledged himself to support the Ministers and their Bill, it was scarcely to ha supposed that he was at liberty to oppose particular parts of the measure. The Worthy Alderman had, in giving that pledge, distinctly admitted the principle that representatives ought to be pledged to take the opinions of their constituents respecting each par ticular vote which they should give.—(Cheers.) He re ferred to time reproof given to Sir Robert Wilson by his constituents as another instance of the inconvenience of the principle, and of the total abstraction of the indepen dence of Members, to which the recognition of it would lead.—(Cheers.) Within the last day or two a threat of of a meeting in the city had been held as a rod in terroreni over the House.—(Cheers.) It was a clear indication of the sort of influence which would be attempted to be exercised over that House by popular bodies out of doors, when they should come into more immediate and sensitive communication with the Members.—(Hear, and question.: The real question for the consideration of the House al present was, not merely whether a single place—Deptford Greenwich, or WI4OIW cell-should be allowed to have two re. presentatives, hut whether the extensive change of the franchise should take place which was contemplated by the whole clause.—(Hear.) When gentlemen talked of his and other gentlemen impeding the progress of this im portant Bill by prolonged and uncalled-for discussion, it ought to be remembered, that the more important were those provisions, the more necessary it was that they should he carefully looked into.—(Question, question.) He complained of the attempts that were made to stifle discussion upon questions in which the peace, happiness, and tranquillity of the country were deeply coiicerned.— (Question, question.) Much objection had been made to same observations of his on the preceding evening respect ing the country gentlemen in the House. Now, he had no intention of attributing any want of ability to those Nlembcra, who had frequently shown both ability and in dustry on occasions on which their interests were to he de fended, as on the question of the corn laws.—(Hear.) All he meant to say was, that they had a natural tend ency to quiet and peaceful habits. (The increasing noise in the llouse prevented us from hearing distinctly the Hon, Gentleman's reference to. that country gentle- Ole opinions of some than other people.) He would again assure those gentle- F a l e e s n y h e:e Vr l i e te ss rl a i i t tis'; '; e, PP a c' t ' it t l own,lesa aptitude for business s.of his men, that ii they thought that their neighbours would sup port them against the sort of persons who would Le t•e turned by those suburban districts, they weal 4 selves sadly mistaken.—(Ores',iea, , iiuestion.) They were told that tivi piactia were inhabited by persons of prc. - p;:,rty. But he would ask, what weight would persons of property have in the representation, when the prin ciple of the Bill went nearly to , universal st q rage ? a , (Cheers, and cries of " Oh, ! would ask what influence bad the ‘Wnle'ne'cl, 'f —(Hear, hear.) Did not operty in W es t m i ns ter ° tl v te c'S g t e h n i tle e Clineeenti7 to; that city yote one way, and the mass of the elec tor? quite the other Hear, hear.) He hoped his Hon. Frl , ard opposite would not be offended when he asked what had the people of property in Westminster to do with the o aa ti Qa of the present Members?..--Much noise oA th?, h~?h House, " Question!" &c. ) Gentlemen opposite :narshalled their votes as to prevent any inroad upon Bill.—(Cheers.) It was not a all upon which the dom of Parliament could be brought to bear.—(Cie The subjects comprehended in that Bill would ationi ticient matter for a dozen Bills. —(Loud and rePt cheers.) He was not in the secrets of the Hon. G 6 men opposite ; but he understooil that at a meeting they had held a few days ago, the country gentlemen consented to forego their own opinions, and to sad their own interests and those of their constituents In , sake of the Bill.—(Cheers, and " No, no!") Committee ought to bear in mind, that in agreeing!' clause before them, they not only gave representsti f suburb in districts, but they gave the francbi ten-pound freeholders, and that that part of tb' brought clown the representation as low as his Friend opposite wished—that is, to the verge of perism—to the point at which property begins.—(o and cries of " Question !") It was to be remenib that if they granted too little, it would still be posed grant mire ; but if they now granted too much, it he impossible to go back. If they fixed the francbi 30/., they might reduce it after to 20/. If—(Loud log, which prevented us from hearing the conclusion I sentence.) He would not object to giving represent; to districts in which—(Yawns, and cries of " obi hear, hear.) He reminded the Committee of the pt' state of the French Legislature, and which was a t moment sitting under the controul of clubs, by c v they were surrounded on every side.—(Cheers.) lid sidered that clause of enfranchisement quite as serioe its probable consequences as schedule A, because it the franchise, as the latter scLedul, took it away, wi t the slightest necessity.—(Cheers.) . The Noble Lod , posite had said that there was no danger to hended from popular assemblies. But it was a fact', on Monday last there was assembled in the neighbour of the city a body of twenty-five or thirty thousand evidently " looking out to see if the time was rir. them to carry their plans of mischief into execuo' What would be the constitution of that House when representation should b e i n th e h an d s o f suc h 'iodic' (Cheers, and oh, oh.) When this Bill should be cii! into effect, the people would soon see that if their ill had been allowed—(Cries of oh, oh, cheers, and log' amidst which the conclusion of the speech was lost.) Mr. HOBHOUSE had always thought it uecessall the discussions upon this Bill, that the friends of gels being sincere, as he was, ought not to take up the the House by answering arguments which had been b ten thousand times refuted, and in discussing prin t which had been already completely settled.—(Ch'" Nor would he then take the liberty to say a word , that his excellent Friend opposite had thought fit 11 ' the city of Westminster under his especial protection• that gentleman had been so long one of the greatest ments of that city, he (Mr. Hobhouce) wondered ti e had not thought fit to pay more attention to the nat n its franchise, before he made it the basis of his argu6 in that House. The Hon. Gentleman had said the night, that the Ministers, in their have of change , determined to change the representation of Virestnl i° by deluging it with 101. voters. But that gen tl ought to have known that the electors of that city the payers of scot and lot.—(Cheers.) That Bill, 9 front increasing the number of voters, would take t' e franchise from 15,000 or 18,000 electors.—(CV Hid he not a right then to complain of his Hon. Ft far representing the constituency as enlarged, sci i , o ' was, in fact, greatly diminished by the Bill ?—(Ch r But that was only one specimen of the co rrec t in ascertaining facts, which was so much recom ,o by the Honourable Gentleman opposite. But I ) ! !lied that it was by such comparatively palte) j trumpery statements the Bill was to be judr nor was it with their refutation he would. cupy the Committee.—(Cheers.) The charge the Hon. Gentleman made against the great body t r j people in this country, that they had sinister objev favouring the Bill, that they were ready, and ° I watch, and that if you gave them any play whateve would destroy the Constitution—(Cheers)—he de l3 i (Cheers)— and he would assert, that make the limit franchise where they might, the people of this 0 $ had no such wish, and had shown no such inclinAt ic i (Cheer , .) He had always shown respect to his Friend, but he must then complain of the vein in ` it, , on that and on many other occasions during the tit . , sions of the Bill, he had asserted that if the House, to listen to the people of this country, there would chance of the voice of reason being attended to i rj , House. What his Hon. Friend called the voice of re; he (Mr. H.) would presume to call the supge , t i l folly and self-interest.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Frien said much about what might happen, but he (Mr,' would appeal to their experience of w h a t h a d huff and he would had there ever been a body 0 who exhibited more fatuity than had been sh°' former Houses of Commons ?—(Cheers.) The facts which the Hun. 'Member for Camelford col? proofs that the system had worked well, he (3 11 1 i would take as proofs that it bad worked very 1 4 (Cheers.) When he differed, therefore, so mucb, Hon. Gentlemen opposite upon first principles, wal idle to waste in those discussions the time of the and of the country ; that time, too, which, as the e n e ' well knew, they could never look for again?—(C. Was it not vain to waste time in discussing Prw, which, whilst th e y Were di scuss i ng th em , might lit for ever.—(Cheers.) His Hon. Friend had d e nialn the Committee, would they consent that the King land should be compelled to ask the electors ofi, minster what men he was to choose for his Min His (Mr. H.'s) reply was—To be sure,—(Hear, laugh.) He did not wonder that his Hon. Frietitl,, Baiing) would not consult them, since that gat' had shown that he knew very little about laugh.) But he would assure him, that he (Alr• house) would as lieve consult them us that body whi r hitherto been consulted.—(Cheers.) The King hBll, been free to choose his Ministers.—(Cheers.) always been compelled to ascertain beforehand ' l te the gentlemen whom he was disposed to take Counsels could command an adequate number ° base parchment bonds which the Committee b ) hoped, rendered null fur ever.—(Cheers, and latlS, Were a man o f th e hi g h es t t a l en t s i n t h e country, t i his services t o th e Ki ng i n a ti me o f difficulty, 80' , that he thought he could be useful to the state, tb must inquire, before he could accept the offer, s ' i b that gentl eman was supporte d b y t hi s L or d, a nd ; Duke? and whether he could command the half, roughbridge, a n d di s p ose o f N ewar k as occas i o n 104 i quire?—(Cheers.) Such was the free choice ' King. He was compelled to bow to that which he himself created.—(Hear, hear, and 4 , If any man present were to lose by that Bill, the I'' for Westminster would lose, as the honour rvhi c had of being freely chosen by the people would a ti ft be a distinction, but would be shared with theta 0 whole House. A Right lion. Gentleman had sai d 'o preceding evening, that the proposed enfranchiseO o r a measure which must take place, because it was 0 tively called for by the country. But the gentle,' wrong in supposing that the mere enfranchisemen t ,,R have satisfied the intelligent mind, and turned I; determination of the country. Had the King's I ‘ l !,e on the contrary, stopped short at the disfrand e without turning to Manchester or Birmingham, the would not have been contented to wait many yea 0,10 they should demand that other constituency ' l 'd formed to supply the place of the overthrown bor ° , ([-Tear, hear.) Some Hon. Gentlemen seemed to o r a matter of complaint th a t th ere was i n th a t House P O ,O of the foreign department that had been in the li some time. Did th ose lion. Members forget, tl'; t ,:e the whole exi s t ence o f th e l a t e G overnmen t, the * be' for Foreign Affairs was not in that but in %et House of Parliament ? yet no want of his pret 4 ;2: for a singl e m oment co m p l a i ne d o f or f e lt, s ince t ' lion. Baron e t, th e M em b er f or T amwort h, 119 generally of the Administration, answered all lia",ht: specting any d epartment o f w hi c h th e h ea d did la° l ', to be in th e H ouse , an d, i n man y i ns tances, 13 ,01 , questions for Members of the Government wit°o/ to be present in their own proper persons. io t 1' Friends who sat on the sam e side of die 0( he (lid, and who had adopted the resolutio°4/,, parting the great measure of Reform then under 'l,l. deration of the House, were taunted with being o o, and uulistening majority. Lord North had 0 ,,y been reproached fu, falling asleep in his place la to o ~ but the answer of the Noble Lord was that he °' t be!d to sleep and could not. So it was with their , ro e I called an unlistening majority, and their only olid;„ , Bret was that the appellation was nut truly OP, t wished sincerely that they Gould avoid liotenil,l44l that they heard in that House.—(A laugh.) `w i t h , ) not only reproached with not li s tening, hut % oofil plying to the arguments urged from the otbe s . . cy were taunted with the brevity and the :201:0 th speeches, from whi c h it was t o b e i n terred t wised them to address the House more freque_!oilt greater length ; but when were men of the deuce found adopting the advice of their adee r- o o t doubt the object of the Anti-Reform Membe r ' a , O t , l , Did he hims e lf ent e rtain the same sentimen ts uhf H om oc Baronet and his friends, he should not atiog every lair expedient fur the purpose of ete 14,