The Sun. — London, England, 1834-04-25 00:00:00

~w '.4l4st . ~'t.. \ \\ ,~ 's; a ~~ connection, and the participation of British Yesourees. It was a singular fact connected with the trade of Ireland, which he (Mr. Tennant) emitted to mention, that the in crease in her imports eind exports was confined to her cars= coerce with :rid alone. In her foreign trade Ireland had hardly advanced a single step since the union, but through her intercourse with England her progress had been immense, her Brstish imports having increased in thirty years from 3,000,000/. to 7,000,0001., and her exports from 3,500,000/. to nearly 9,000,0001., whilst her foreign traffic was almost stationary—:__ 1801. 1830. Imports from Foreign P0rt5...£1,350,994...1,547,849 Ditto, from Great Britain 3,270,350,.,7,048,936 Exports to Foreign Ports 526,819., 411,854 Ditto, to Great Britain 3,537,725,, .8,531,355 With proofs such as these before us of our utter depend ence upon British connection, and upon admission to apar ticipation in her resources, the question of the union re solves itself into one simple, and he (Mr. E. Tennant) thought incontrovertible proposition. In what position would England be most readily inclined to bdnefit Ireland, and assist her in her progress as her partner or her com petitor, as her rival or as an incorporated portion of her own empire? (near, hear.) He (Mr. E. Tennant) had but one other point to allude to, and he had done with this inquiry. He admitted it was the most pain ful and the least satisfactory. Had the union succeeded in producing peace and tranquillity in Ireland ? Unfortu nately as yet the answer must be in the negative, it would be interminable to enter into the causes which have pro duced this failure, and to trace the means by which the factious and the vile, the disaffected and the corrupt, have succeeded in operating on the crude minds of the Irish peasantry, so as to thwart and to defeat every project for her happiness and welfare—the means by which, whilst the Creator had designed Ireland for a paradise— " Man, enamoured of distress, Has marred her into wilderness." (Hear hear. ) The evils were in their forms multifarious and innumerable, the remedy was contained in one single sentence—relieve the destitute and educate the people. It was the destitu tion of the Irish poor, and ignorance of the Irish people, that exposed them as a ready prey to the dominion of priest craft, and the delusions of demagogues. (Hear, hear. ) This was the only expedient to restore Ireland to peace and to happiness, and this alone could possibly best o w on h er that thorough and absolute independence of mind, not less than action, to which the hon. and learned member for Dublin had taught her to aspire. But he (Mr. E. Ten nant) had understood, from the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman that it was not total independence which he sought to secure fbr Ireland by the repeal of the union, but a sort of dependent connection—a federal union, as he called it ; a power to deliberate of her own authority, for her own local affairs, but to leave all matters of exter nal and national legislation to the British parliament. (Hear.) Now, he (Mr. Tennant) appealed to the house, to the country, to the speeches of the hon. gentleman him self, whether the plan he had here proposed was commen surate to the object for which he had taught his countrymen to clamour, or whether it would be a realization of the hopes which he had encouraged them to cherish. Every patriotic repealer professed that his object was to render Ireland an in dependent nation, andno longer a subordinate province. The hon. member here read a quotation from Lord Minto's opinion relative to distinctions between an independent and a dependent nation. Granting then the full measure of repeal, for which the hon. and learned gentleman asked, he (Mr. E. Tennant) would leave it to the most simple hearted advocates of the measure in Ireland to say which of his lordship's definitions would apply to Ireland in its new capacity, whether that of an " independent nation," or a " subordinate province." Was Ireland, in this new form of government, to have any discretion in matters of war or peace, or was she not, as before, to follow implicitly the dictates of England? If she was not, separation, he contended, must inevitably follow sooner or later ; and if she was, she was of course to be dragged in as heretofore for her share of all the costs and expenditure. If, then, she was to have no authority of herself in matters in which she was most nearly interested—in war or peace, alliances or treaties, commercial, colonial, or ecclesiastical arrange ments, he (Mr. E. Tennant) would ask whether this be the full national independence for which the hon. and learned gentleman had taught his countrymen to insist, and would the Irish peasantry be so dull as not to discover the cheat? Would they not demand from the hon. and learned member whether this be the independence they were taught to struggle for? Whether it was for this subordinate rank that they had been holding their tumultu ous meetings and signing their petitions, deserting their peaceful industry, and robbing themselves and their families of the common necessaries of life in order to raise 15,0001. a-year for the hon. and learned member for Dublin. ( Im mense cheering.) No doubt the hon. and learned gentle man's eloquence would be sufficient to avert their indigna tion ; but even should it fail with a few, he would still have the consolation of an amiable character in Horace— " Populus me sibliat ; at mihi plaudo " Ipse dom', simul ac nummos contemplor in area." (Cheers. ) This then, at length was the hon. member's plan for getting rid of the " sassenach" and the " stranger." It was thus he proposed to liberate Ireland from the thral dom of the " Saxon Parliament." This was his notable expedient to liberate " the hereditary bondsmen," and to render Ireland once more-- 44 Great, glorious, and free, " First flower of the earth, and first gem of the sea." (Hear.) He (31r. E. Tennant) knew the ardent and susceptible temperament of the Irish people—he knew how deeply the love of country and of freedom was engrafted in every Irish bosom, and how easily every app. al to these wins its way to the heart ; and was it not a cold-blooded tampering with the feelings and passions of the nation —was it not a seething of the lamb in its mother's milk, thus to convert the best affections of a people into instru ments wherewithal to delude and plunder them? (Cheers. ) Bat we have at least learned this by the present discussion, that the hon. member's object in the repeal of the union is not to render Ireland an independent nation, but to esta blish a sort of federal connection between her and Great Britain. He remembered a very striking description of that kind of connection given by the Irish Speaker, Mr. Foster, in the year 1800:—" It must ever be the dearest interest of Ireland," said he, " to be an inalienable and in separable part of the British empire, not joined togetherby the nonsense of a federal union—a connection which hangs on a thread, exposed to all the attacks of party, and all the effects of accident ; and unfortunate, indeed, would it be for us, if Ireland were held by a connection of the mere person of the King." And it is this nonsense of federal union with which the hon. member now came forward to appease the excited imaginations of the deluded people of lr _land. Against such a species of connection they had not only all the arguments of theory, but all the practical experience of history to warn them. America was, he ad mitted, a bad example for either party, because it was an imperfect example. Its union was too recent to form an illustration for his opponents, and too unripe to afford a sa tis.a.tory argument to himself ; but he conceived that it must be evident to every individual who knew the con dit on of that country—the jealousies of the northern and southern states—the distinctness of interests on which each was dependent—and the disunion in feeling which already existed, and was rapidly gaining head between them—that before many years—so soon, at least, as they had strength to warrant them in making the attempt--they would have more than one Carolina proposing to repeal the North American union. The whole range of history could not furnish them with an example, in which these species of confederacies, from their internal weakness, and the defects of this constitution, had not fallen an easy prey to foreign enemies, or dropt asunder by their own rottenness. The instance of Spain and Portugal was in every respect a perfect illustration of the proposed federal union between Ireland and this country. Philip 11. of Spain claimed the throne of Portugal in right of his mother ; and in 1581 the two kingdoms formed a federal union under one crown, on the express stipulation that Portugal was to continue a distinct kingdom. How long did this connection last ? Not sixty years. The jealousy of the weaker country could not brook the connection; and in 1640, Philip IV. was expelled, and John of Braganza seated on the inde pendent Portuguese throne : and what had been the result of that independence ? Would any Irishman wish to see his country placed on a footing of either nation of the Peninsula to-d ? Denmark, Sweden, and Norway, formed a similar federal union in 1397 by the treaty of Palmas—it lasted scarcely three generations, being dis solved by the revolt of Gustavus Vasa in 1523, and the union which now subsisted between Sweden and Norway, he had good authority for saying, had no other effect than by the mutual jealousies of the two nations, that of sub jecting both' to the intrigues and influence of Russia. In ternal enemies had ever found such alliances the most favourable to their designs of conquest and subjugation. It was by attacking independent Ireland that the enemies of England had ever sought to aim a fatal blow at her. Witness the expedition of the Spaniards in the reign of Elizabeth, and afterwards in 1717—the efforts of the Pope in the time of the Commonwealth, and of the French at Carrickfergus in 1760, at Bantry in 1796, and Killala in 1798. Had the seven provinces of Holland been incorporated into one nation, instead of hinging together by a thread, each state . possessing a negative on the general will of the con federacy, could they have been overrun in nine days, as by the French in 1795 ? In Holland, too, they had lately had a " repeal of the union," and what did it promise for either country ? (Loud cheers.) It had left Holland a shattered and decaying trunk, and Belgium a reed shaken by the winds, and both in all probability likely one day to fall before the ambition of France or some other conti nental neighbour. (Cheers.) Germany and Switzerland had each in turn felt the weakness of federal alliances against external aggression ; and in short the whole range of history could furnish forth no one prece d ent o f such an alliance being either prosperous in its cons ti tut i on or per manent in its duration. (Hear, hear, hear.) If they could form a conjecture of the probable duration of power in any dominion, they had in fact only to inquire whether its subjects be united and identified, like those of China, or divided and indepeudent,•like the hordes of Arabia or of Tartary. One fact they had learned beyond a questi on or a doubt from the experience of seven centuries in Ireland, that whilst British connexion was indispensable to the well being of both countries, that connexion could never be secured unless by the thorough union or the thorough sub jection of Ireland to Great Britain. (Cheers.) Every in termediate system had been tried in vain, and the nearer the terms of connexion }cad 'approached to independence, the nearer hittl lien the approach to total separation. Witness the 'rebellion of 1798. Not Only did he consider the ;onion as it it present 'stood to be sound in its nature and beneficial in its resign, but, what was of almost equal importance in the present position of affairs, he believed the rellecting portion of the two nations to be so tiny sa tisfied of its advantages as it existed, And Of . the ruin which must inevitably ensue from its iepeal, that he looked on the accomplishment of that measure as utterly and abso lutely impraetiCable, and its present agitation to be fraught at (Mee with mischief and delusion. There were in his ktiintltwo insuperable obstacleswhich had erected themselves against the repeal of the union—two barriers which, taken together, were in his opinion insurmountable, 'and these were, Roman Catholic tmancipation and Parliamentary reform. Ile Would be the last individiial to introduce sec tarian prejudices in that lionse, or to give utterance there to language which might tend to perpetuate sectarian dis tinctions beyond it ; but as h e l oo k e d upon thi s t o pic as vitally andinseparably connected with the present ques tion, he would not hesitate to deal with it unreservedly. He knew that in doing so, he should expose himself to slander and misrepresentation elsewhere ; he knew that he should incur the risk of being again denounced in Ireland, as he had already been by the hon. and learned member for Dublin, in that strain of mingled filth and eloquence Which, out of that house, was so peculiarly his own. (Loud and continued cheering.) He had been a friend to the emancipation of the Roman Catholics, but in common with almost every liberal Protestant with whom he had spoken on the subject in Ireland, he had been compelled at last to question, not the justice of that measure, for that he had never doubted, but the existence of the content ment and moderation which they were led to hope would have been exhibited by the Roman Catholics after that measure should have passed. Their own proceedings dur ing the last three years, had compelled him at last to alter his opinions of the Roman Catholic body and their leaders ; and if he (Mr. E. Tennant) was less of a liberal on this head to-day than he had been twelve months ago, he could safely say he owed his conversion in common with thou sands in Ireland, of similar opinions to the proceedings of the hon. and learned member for Dublin and his associates. Let him (Mr. O'Connell) pursue his present career for a short time longer—let him continue to arouse the passions and the jealous ambition of the Roman Catholics of Ire land, and, before twelve months were elapsed, every Pro testant in the country must, for the preservation of his property, become in his own defence a Conservative. (Cheers.) He considered it as a circumstance not a little extraordinary, that the Roman Catholics, who were now the exclusive friends of repeal, were, in 1799, if not the active promoters, at least the silent advocates of the union. Their motives in both instances were simple and obvious. They supported the union, as the only expe dient through which they could ever hope to obtain the remission of the penal laws. The obstacles to their emancipation by the Irish Parliament were insurmount able, because, being in that country the majority, this admission to a share in the legislation, with their. known hostility to Protestantism, would have been certain destruction to the Established Church and the other Pro testant institutions of Ireland. It was evident, therefore, that an Irish parliament never would, because with safety it never could, admit their claims ; but it was equally evi ' dent that a united parliament might, because the Protes tant party of Ireland being then incorporated with that of Great Britain, the two united would form as great a ma jority, in proportion to the Roman Catholics of the king dom, as the latter, taken in a separate state, did to the Irish Protestants. Mr. Hutchinson, and other strenuous advo cates of emancipation, did not fail to state in the Irish House of Commons, in 1799, that they advocated the union mainly on the ground of its being the only possible avenue to the enfranchisement of the Catholics. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Pitt, in introducing the question of the legislative union to that house, avowed the same opinion ; and at the very moment when he confessed himself friendly to their claims, he admitted "that no man could say that in the present state of things, and whilst Ireland remained a se parate kingdom, full concessions could be made to the Ca tholics without endangering the state, andshaking the con stitution of Ireland to its centre." Nor was this feeling peculiar to the friends of the Roman Catholics alone—it was entertained in an equal degree by their bitterest op ponents. The celebrated Dr. Duigenan, a man who owed his notoriety in Ireland to his furious hostility to their claims, admitted long before a union was seriously pro posed, and published it as his opinion, " that if that measure were once carried, his hostility to emancipa tion would be at an end, and that no further pretext could exist for the continuance of the penal laws. It was the conviction of its safety, as insured by the union, that operated with the Protestant Parliament of 1829 to pass the Roman Catholic Relief Bill. If, then, that union be now repealed--if by cancelling the only guarantee ' which the Irish Protestant now held for the security of his private property and of his public institutions, what other were they prepared to give him in its stead ? On the faith of the union he surrendered the security which he held in the penal laws ; if they deprived him of the one, were they prepared to re-enact the other ? To repeal the act of union now would be precisely to place the Irish Par liament in the same position in which it would have stood had emancipation and reform been carried before the incor poration of the two countries. The effect of such a mea sure, then, was thus described by a member of the house, Mr. Douglas, afterwards Lord Glenbervie—" I have no scruple to state my opinion (said he), that an attempt to grant what is called Catholic emancipation, whilst the local Parliament (of Ireland) remains, would excite such a struggle between property and numbers as would greatly aggravate many of those mischiefs which now exist in Ireland, tending to revolution and separation, through the medium of a civil war of the most destructive and ferocious kind." He (Mr. Tennant) might be told that Lord Glenbervie, though friendly to the union as a step towards Catholic emancipation, was in reality no friend to the Catholics. He (Mr. Tennant) would, however, quote to the house one other opinion on this subject, to which this objection could not lie. The author of a popular work, published in Ireland during the debates of the union, thus speaks of the effects which reform and emancipation to gether would have upon an independent Irish Parliament:— "Reform the Irish Parliament," said the writer, " and you have a democracy—the consequences is unavoidable, if the alterations be on a very capacious scale. Repeal the dis tinguishing laws—good ; but you cannot by your act of Parliament reach the spirit of distinction, and the tendency to disunion will subsist with all the irritating circumstances which accompany that temper ** *. If many Roman Catholics get into Parliament, they would form a Catholic opposed to a Protestant faction, precisely as in the last century, when the parties ran at length into civil wars, in which one was reduced to a pitiable subjugation." TIA; was the ivophecy of no protestant bigot—no exclusive churchman, these were the words of distinguished Roman Catholic favourites, Mr. Theobald and Mr. Kenna, who was himself, he (Mr. Tennant) believed, at one time the official organ of the Roman Catholic Association in Ire land. Such, then; on the showing of one of their own body, would be the result of restoring the Irish Parliament, constituted as it would now be of a large proportion of Ro man Catholics ; for observe, this author does not say that it would require even a majority to produce this jealousy and discord. To leave Protestant institutions and the Pro testant church out of the question altogether, would Pro testant property be secure amidst the• contentions of their Protestant and Catholic factions ? Nine-tenths of that property had been at various times confiscated from Ro man Catholic insurgents—unjustly confiscated as their descendants contend ; no proscription, it was known, can amend a defective title ; and would the Catholics fail to re claim their right? They were told, to be sure, that the Catholics have no such intention, that the title of the public would be respected, but they should never forget that they had fallen upon evil days when men did not blush to ridi cule " the cant of public faith." (Great cheering.) It was not without cause that anxiety and alarm were felt for the present movements of the Catholics in Ireland. This want of candour left the Protestants no reliance in their sin cerity ; they seemed to act with two objects—one ostensible and the other concealed. They advocated the union in 1799 with a view to Catholic emancipation, and now the hon. member for Dublin tells us that he only advocated Catholic emancipation in order to get rid of the union. (Cheers.) After the most solemn assurances, reiterated throughout thirty years, that Catholic emancipation was all that was wished or wanted to quiet the country, they were now un blushingly told that these professions were a mere ruse de guerre, and that so far from emancipation being the end of their desire, it was only sought for as the means to the end. ( Cheers.) When, then, were they to get rid of this jesuitical agitation ? When were they to learn the real end to which the hon. and learned member was looking? Were not the chapels the theatres of political discussion?. and did they not collect round their very altars the miserable pittance of the peasant, which was to form at once the odious stimulant of the base reward of agitation ? ( Great cheering.) Were they not at the present moment the ac tive agents of one-half the elections in Ireland ? ( Hear. ) Was not the elective force of one half the constituencies which sent members to this house marshalled and officered and directed by Roman Chatholic priests? ( Hear. ) Should this create no alarm in the Irish Protestant mem bers of that house, whom a repeal of the union would send single-handed to contend with this gigantic influence—an influence which they every day and every hour saw becom ing more firmly grounded and more openly and unreserved ly existed? To repeal the union now would be to hand over Ireland to the control of men such as those whose influence they knew, whose ambition they had every rea son to dread. The hon. and learned gentleman had dwelt long and powerfully on the historical evidences of the atro cities and corruption by which the union was originally carried ; but however revolting and opprobrious these facts might be—and no man was more willing than he (Mr. E. Tennant) was to admit their enormity—he confessed that he was unable to discover how these external circumstances could possibly afford external evidence of the merits and demerits of the union: But besides this, he (Mr. E. Ten nant) thought it an unfortunate topic to be broached by the hon. member. If it proved anything, it proved merely this, that in the roughest era of Ireland—in the high and palmy days of her independence—she was liable to be seduced, and actually was corrupted by the resistless force of English influence. Was she in better condition to resist it now ? Was her virtue more incorruptible, her patriotism more stern to-day than '‘ ' .---i i in i the days of Grattan and Ponsonby, and of Flood, and of Charlemont? (Cheers.) Were they to suppose that the parliament of 1799, under the leadership of such men as these were, less sterling in its purity than an Irish par liament would be in 1.834, under the guidance of the hon. member Tor Dublin ? (Hear, hear, and laughter.) For whatever office that gentleman might fill under the new form of government in Ireland, and in all probability he would take the charge of the Exchequer, he (Mr. Ten nant) presumed that he would be the leader at least, if not the ruler of the Irish Commons: (Laughter.) But if they had paid and purchased advocates of 1797/had they no paid oppenents to the measure now ? If the argument was not worth any thing in the one instance it was equally good in the others ; and if the introduction of money could throw a suspicion over the enactment of the union, must if not equally cast an imputation on its repeal? (Cheers.) The hon. and learned gentleman might discover a salutary warning for himself in his own eloquent denunciations of his predecessors. If the touch of gold had cast a shadow over their reputation, would his own go down to posterity more pure and unspotted, or would not the hard-earned pittance of the Irish peasant cling to him like the silver of Naaman to the servant of Elijah, entailing on his memory the taint of advice, and on his motives the leprosy of sus picion? The hon. and learned gentleman had alluded most forcibly to the evils of absenteeism, and the miseries which it had inflicted upon Ireland. But he surely did not mean us to infer that absenteeism was an evil which has had its growth since the union? He must surely be aware that centuries had elapsed since it was denounced as the curse of Ireland. He must cer- tainly remember that it was computed by Prior to drain off nearly 1,500,0001. of her specie, so long since as the middle of the 17th century, and that nearly a century later it was proposed by Lord Hardwicke to the Irish Parlia ment in 1773, to restrict it by an onerous tax. All this was before the union, before the Parliament was removed from Dublin to Engfand. It was not the absence of a do mestic Parliament, but the absence of domestic tranquillity, which had increased the band of Irish absentees ( Great cheering), and it was to the restoration of tranquillity, and not to the restoration of her legislature, to which they were to look for their return. It was an observation of Cowley as applied to Cromwell, that when the Almighty in his vengeance saw fit to visit Egypt with his wrath, he sent not upon her the lion and the tiger, the fierce and lordly mo narchs of the forest, but the toad, the reptile, the fly, and the creeping thing. ( Loud and long continued cheers. ) The inference applied with less force to Cromwell than it did to Ireland at the present day, when heaven in its wrath had sent upon her a worse than Egyptian plague—it had se lected as its scourges as the instruments of its chastise ment, not the noble and the illustrious, but the base and the most indigent of men. (Continued cheering.) They were not the men of rank and intelligence, the opulent or the influential, who at the bidding of the hon.. and learned gentleman and his associates, disturbed the tranquillity, and retarded the improvement, of every Irish hamlet ; but the needy and the adventurous, the turbulent and the unprin cipled wretches, who had all to hope for, and nothing to risk by agitation and by tumult. Hew long, then, were these petty despots tobe permitted to reign and to riot unrestrained? Had not the Irish people a right to look to their Parliament for protection from their outrages,and a release from this domi nation? He should conclude with the forcible and impressive declaration of the ill-fated Lord Kilwarden, on the same sub- ject, that he regarded an union with Great Britain, on the terms of equal laws and equal commerce, of mutual trade on equal principles, and taxation proportioned to the abili ties of both countries, as essential to the stability of the empire, the preservation of the religion, the independence, and the tranquillity of Ireland. He was on the point of giving his vote upon this momentous question, and he did most solemnly declare that he thought the vote he gave was for the preservation of his country, its laws, and its religion, and for the peace,- the happiness, and prosperity of all its inhabitants, and were it the last word he was to utter he would say " Content." The hon. member, on sit ting down, was loudly cheered. The original motion having been read, ;with the amend ment, Mr. F. O'CONNOR rose and said, he was not going to tell over to the house the twice-told tale of Ireland's op pressions and miseries for the last seven centuries. He was not going to repeat the history of the religious perse cutions, the mental coercion, the bodily torture inflicted, which every successive race of Irishmen had undergone from every successive race of her tyrants. No, he would rigidly follow, not the example, but the advice of the right hon. gentleman. He would forget that he had a consti tuency, but he could not forget, like that right hon. gentle man, that he had a country. (Hear, hear.) He re peated, he was not going to give the history of the wrongs of Ireland for the last century (Hear, hear ) ; his business was to show that she had been wronged by the union, and to show that he could meet the right hon. gentleman on his details, which he had made so much of, and would show that they were so many fallacies got up for the occasion, and that, consequently, all the deductions drawn from those details must be fallacious. In doing so he would most carefully avoid uttering an expression which might hurt the feelings of any one. He wished the hon. member who had just sat down had observed the same rule. Although he was very glad that they had selected that hon. member to second the amendment ( Vehement cheering, in which Mr. Sheil's voice was particularly distinguishable), the only pity was that the hon. gentleman appeared to have written his speech be fore he heard that of the right hon. Secretary. It was a sad thing that the two had not compared notes first, for as it was, there was a terrible discrepancy between them as to their details; in fact, in almost every instance (lid their details differ. Last night the right hon. mover of the amendment stated that before the union the importation of corn from England had cost Ireland many millions ; to night, however, the hon. seconder of the amendment made quite a different statement. Not only had the hon. member contradicted the right hon. secretary, but he had contradicted himself. His opinions at one time had been very different from those he expressed to-night. The hon. and learned gentleman,then read a short extract from one of Mr. E. Tennant's works, in which that gentleman said (as well as we could understand)—" When we are asked how we are to seek liberty, let us look to Washington, and see how he acted. (Hear, hear.) Let us beware of the insidious arts of our enemies ! Let us remember the number of our paupers. Let us regard as injurious to liberty the system of hereditary legislators. Let us follow up the re volution of 1688, but never let that revolution be remem bered by Irishmen but with shame and disgust." These had been the sentiments of the same hon. member who now seconded the amendment. (Hear, hear.) The au thority of Chef Justice Burke, Lord Grey, and Lord Plun ket, had been held up to the house as naught—as " rub bish ;" the opinions of the right hon. secretary were, at any rate not any better. He (Mr. F. O'Connor) would pledge himself that night to overthrow the whole of the hon. secretary's arguments, and, like the right hon. secre tary, he called upon the house to act as a jury ; and he would stake what little character he might have, that, if he found a just tribunal, he would, meeting the right hon. secretary " shoulder to shoulder, and elbow to elbow," drive him from all his positions. (Hear, hear, hear.) In the first place he could not but look upon the manner in which the motion had been met by the amendment, as most despotic and arbitrary ; it appeared to him an attempt on the part of the mover of the amendment, to induce the house to give up their feelings and judgment into his keep ing ; but did the right hon. secretary think that with this parchment amendment of his he could successfully oppose a whole nation ? (Hear, hear.) No, the feeling, the de termination, to effect this cherished object, was too deeply fixed in the minds of the Irish nation ever to be eradicated. The report of the committee of 1825, the credit of which had been attributed to a noble friend of the right ho nourable secretary's, it was stated had brought about the Catholic emancipation (Hear), by opening the eyes of the English to the real state of Ireland and the wishes of its people. That committee had very justly been commended by the right hon. gentleman for effecting such results. Why, then, should he now object to giving the English an opportunity of understanding the wishes of Ire land on the far more momentous question now before them. The right hon. secretary had talked very ostentatiously of the sums of money granted to Ireland. How were those sums expended ? In gaols, in bridewells, and in bridges, to en rich the aristocracy. (Hear, and a laugh.) He was not going into the history of past atrocities, the question was, whether it would be better for Ireland that the union should be maintained. The right hon. gentleman, tri ' umphantly alluding to some former proCeeding of the vo lunteers, had said, " But if we allow the Irish Parliament again to assemble, it would only be to have them acting L as a subordinate body to the volunteers, who would again assemble in convention, and dictate to the revived Parlia ment what to do. Everything would be under " club law." Now it appeared to him that any reference, much less objection to " club law," came with curious effect from the right lion. secretary, who had been so active in getting club law established all over Ireland. The question was, had Ireland been benefitted by the union? He denied that it had ; he asserted that Ireland had lost much by the [ union, and he was prepared with his proof. He would first consider the history of Ireland since 1782, he would consider how that union had been brought about: What was the condition of Ireland at the time of the union —what its prospects—and what was its condition at the pre sent time ? The right honourable member had set forth that Ireland had prospered beyond measure since the union ; he had trumpetted forth now, that its imports and exports were increasing, now that it was, exempt from taxes. As to the taxes, taxes were laid on to suit English wealth, not Irish poverty. The Irish had no mo ney wherewith to pay taxes, therefore they were not taxed. The exports were increased ! Yes ; those exports were the food which ought to feed the cultivators of the soil. The imports were increased, solely on account of the ruin and fall of home manufactures. 'the right hon. gentle man said that 103 millions had been sent over to Ireland ; the poor Irish had seen very little of the money, but had felt that since the union there had been a depreciation in fact, in Ireland, of a great deal more than the one hundred and three millions. He would pledge himself to prove this statement. The Irish peasantry had formerly some little money in their pockets, but it had been wrested from them by the system pursued towards Ireland. The sheep-walks had been broken up, and it was very well known that the result of that would be that the stock would be taken off altogether. Did not this account for the appearance of • . that prosperity which had been inferred from the fact of 1 fair and legitimate way ; and whatever may be the success 1 their having been an increase in the sale of stock? The of any attempt made to smother it in that house, the right hon. gentleman had come down with a red box full people of Ireland had set their mind too intently on the of details, but the statements which they contained would measure to permit it to be thus got rid of. (Cheers from not bear examination. How was it that since the union, the Irish members.) The house would do him the justice if Ireland had become so prosperous, the price of land had to say, that he was not the person who would say one thing considerably decreased ? Land, estimating it according to there and another in another place. What he said he the value of money in 1814, would not now sell for one- meant ; and he would assert, that if the fair and free dis third of the price that it would then. [The hon. and cussion of this measure of repeal were got rid of by un learned gentleman here remarked on the absence of Mr. S. fair means, it would justify rebellion, and make resistance Rice.] The right hon. gentleman had taunted his hon. a virtue. (Cheers.) The question for the house to take and learned friend last evening for not being p resent to l into consideration was, whether it was prudent to perse hear the reply to his speech ; where was now the right vere in a course which might hazard the dismemberment hon. gentleman himself ? ( Shortly afterwards Mr. S. Rice of the empire ? He had spent much time, and taken great resumed his seat.) Theright hon. gentleman had referredto pains in the consideration of this measure; and if he were the increase of houses as another proof of prosperity; but not fully satisfied that the course he adopted was not for would he find it inhis philanthropic nature to cram 8 millions the benefit of his country, he never would pursue it for of people into a number of houses built to hold only four the purpose of courting an ignominious popularity. There millions? The right hon. gentleman would, perhaps, ask, were, he knew, some who supported it without principle, if he was not to draw his evidence of the prosperity of the and made stilts of it to help themselves to other objects. country from the excise, the customs, the shipping, the Hume—not the member . , but the historian ( A laugh ) rt impos or the exports, whence he was to draw it He described such per sons as " g oin g about , proclaiming that (M ir. F. O'Connor) would tell him to what sources he , they were not so well governed as they might have been." must not go for such information. He must not go to the ,He (Mr. O'Connor) denied that he was one of such—he absentees—to the ruined 'squires—to the uncultivated threw the taunt from whence it came, and would fearlessly waste—to the half cultivated soil—to the furrowed cheek ' say, that there was more intelligence, patriotism, and of the artisan—to the emaciated form of the agriculturist. ' purity on his side of the house than on the other. (Cheers The right hon. gentleman was not impressed with a due from the Irish members.) Much had been expected for sense of the miseries existing in Ireland. How should Ireland from the Whigs ; but for whatever benefits she he be ? He did not go amongst them ; and what the eye received she was indebted to the Tories. Emancipation did not see the heart did not feel. ( Hear, hear, hear.) had been surrendered by t he Great Ca p tain of the a g e—. He should have been glad to see the hon. member for and justly surrendered, when he found it would be madness Sligo and the hon. member for Donegal in their seats ;if any longer to withhold it. Ireland, even now, would ex they had been he might have referred to them as affording pect more benefit from at Tory than a Whig Government. examples of what ought to be the conduct of Irish land- i They (the Tories) were straightforward, open, and manly lords towards their tenantry. He knew that men's ordi- foes, nary feelings prevented them from walking abroad, or "Of all the ills which Heaven in wrath could send, riding abroad, where of necessity would be forced on their Save him !—oh ! save, from a pretended friend." view the distresses of the tenantry. (Hear, hear.) They .To be sure the Tories did not give much, but then they dared not; he did not mean they wou dbe deterred by any never promised; they, however, gave something. The feeling of fear ; but they dared not on account of the feelings of reproach that it would excite to walk amongst worse than nothing. They did not even fulfil their pro- Whigs promised much, but they gave nothing, or what was their tenantry and see them in a state of destitution. mises to the people of England, by whom, and through ( Hear, hear.) The right hon. gentleman told them whose unions, they had been kept in place, and enabled to that there had been 61 committees and 114 commissions ; carry the measure of reform. (Hear, hear.) The y had but was this any proof of the improved state of the . violated every pledge with regard to Ireland. The Tories country? He had shown that the argument founded . were bad enough ; but a contrast with the Whigs re on an increase in the imports and exports, and the I deemed them. It would be better for England to repeal home consumption, was bad ; he had shown that the the Union, and let its own legislature proceed with the de exportation of cattle was accounted for by the sale of liberations which were now greatly retar d e d and confused stock. (Hear.) If the noble lord opposite (Lord Althorp) by the introduction of Irish business ; but of 128 commit were offered a sum for 1,000 acres of his land in Northamp- tees, 61 were Irish. (Hear, hear.) A right. hon. baronet tonshire, and he gave the party leave to use it as he pleased had stated that one-third of the property of England for five years, what did the noble lord think he would get was expended in maintaining the Legislative Union ; and for it the following five years ? The argument of the hon. yet he was for maintaining it, even at this loss. Let this member for Kildare went far to prove that there were no be told to the people of England. Much had been said of retail markets in Ireland. The fact was, persons bought exportation, and an argument was founded on it to prove wholesale in Ireland at one-fourth the price at which they the prosperity of Ireland. All the wealth of Ireland was sold retail in this country. He thought it impossible for any certainly exported, and she was now worth one-third less country to be prosperous in which there were not country than she was fifteen years ago. He hoped the right hon. markets. The aristocracy seemed determined not to g i ve gentleman opposite (Mr. Littleton), for whom he had an the tenantry any interest in the land; and this would ac- unfeigned respect , would not be led away by . the wishes of count for the falling off in the stamp duties. Complaints his colleagues, and induced to smother his opinion on this were constantly made of the influence the hon. and learned question. If it was to be debated, let it be debated fairly, member for Dublin had over the Irish people ; but he (Mr. and not opposed with the parchment shield of the right hon. F. O'Connor) would ask, would that hon. and learned gentleman who proposed the address, which had been se gentlemen be able to persuade a people who were comfort- conded by such a seconder. He would put it to the Irish able and happy, that they were in a state of misery? (Hear, proprietors in that house whether, if the country were to hear.) Then there were the petitions, which in this year, send 300 members to a domestic legislature, the candidates 1834, so long after the union that was to be , and was so for the representation would not canvass the constituency beneficial to Ireland—there were the petitions which even by their good works, and illustrate their fitness for the trust this year were presented in such numbers to the house. b y p ointin g to the manner in which the y had filled the Were they to be told, that without the union they would other offices of magistrates and grand jurors? The errors not have progressed as well as this country ? It had been of the Irish parliament were emphatically dwelt upon, but urged against the motion, that if the union were dis- the house should remember that the British had, by its solved, the hon. and learned member for Dublin would own act, voted itself incompetent and corrupt. (" Hear," et an ascendancy of Catholics in Ireland. This was from the Irish member s . ) Yet was t h is the p arliament of not a fair way of meeting the question. He defied the " the envy of surrounding nations and the glory of the right honourable gentleman to prove his proposition, world ?" Had the Irish parliament continued and retained He (Mr. Fergus O'Connor) was a Protestant ; and he its independence, would it not have shared in and exhibited for one would be amongst the foremost to raise his arm, its portion of the improvement which with such rapid ' amongst others, against the hon. and learned member strides was advancing over Europe ? If the prosperity—the for Dublin, if he attempted to establish a Catholic as- alleged prosperity—of Ireland was owing to the union, how cendancy. The right hon. gentleman had remarked on was it that other countries shared in the prosperity without the political contributions of the Irish people ; this was no sharing in the cause? If there was improvement in Ire evidence of their not being in distress, it being apparent land, which he denied, was nothing to be attributed to the enough that they were ready to give their means on the general improvement of mankind in the useful arts and promise of a recompence. Poyning's Act, which was sciences? Was all to be the creation of the magic wand passed in 1782, corrupted the Irish Parliament ; he ad- of union ? He regretted that the hon. member (Mr. mitted that the Irish Parliament, after the passing of that Tennant) was not present when the extract was read from act, pursued a course of most servile dependence and pro- his democratic speech, but as he was not, he would now read fligacy : but this was no reason why they should not have it. [Here the hon. member read the extract from a small any Parliament at all. Subsequently even to that period volume, but was so frequently interrupted by triumphant several acts were passed which were greatly beneficial to shouts from the repeal members, that we could only catch Ireland, public works were undertaken—works, many of disjointed passages. The extract was very democratic ; which were yet unfinished—and the country enjoyed a con- insisted (as well as we could ascertain its substance) on the siderable degree of prosperity. The hon. and learnedgen- mastery of the people over the governors whom they them tleman next adverted to the state of Irish affairs in 1709. selves set above them ; alluded to the achievements of In Jan. 22 of that year, Mr. Secretary Dundas presented Washington ; spoke of a pampered aristocracy ; and con an address from his Majesty to the House of Commons, to eluded by saying, that though England may boast of her as itwould not be retracted. He (Mr. O'Connor) the following effect:— revolution, she could never be named by Ireland but with " GEORGE it.—His Majesty is persuaded that the unremitting detestation. ] He(lr. Washington—hereOCo w ri a n s o s r e ) pa w ra o t u i l o d n. ask ( , Co w n a t s inu n e o d t industry with which our enemies persevere in their avowed de- this agitation? ( a l .. f o e n w d cheersmonth frommonths, and the th e repeal re w as m n e o m sa b e y r i s n . g ) sign of effecting the separation of Ireland from this kingdom cannot fail to engage the particular attention of Parliament, and h a a m ll e i n u t a g o e f could never have anticipated that the hon. member would . his Majesty recommends it to this house to consider of tile most. cheers. ) But the hon. gentleman should not yet be classed effectual means of counteracting, and finally defeating, this de. w ith th e G re y s , th e Plunkets, and the Bushes. The speech sign ; and he trusts that a review of all the circumstances which was uttered only i-I whether er e. have recently occurred (joined to the sentiment of mutual of if such a measure ( - 'had been proposed a short time ago to b re o c t t h i o k n in a g n d d o c m o s m t m o o p t r i ov in it t ie e , re i s n t most expedient, for settling such a complete and final adjustment have se conded a proposition to crush inquiry. He imagined, interest) will m ill an d n is e p r ose which the they Pad s i as may best tend to improve and perpetuate a connexion, es-en tial for their common security, and to augment and consolidate the hon. member Mr. Tennant), the strength, power, and resources of the British Empire. he would have indig ,, G . R.. nantly flashed back the democratic principle in the teeth of He contended that Ireland had been eminent for her the proposer. Indeed, the hon. member was too demo loyalty. She had certainly been as much goaded as any cratic for him (Mr. O'Connor). The hon. gentleman had country could be. If she had been in possession of liberty, gone beyond what his colleagues would wish, for he (Mr. she would not have sought protection of any foreign power. O'Connor) believed it was their desire to avoid intemper- It was the catholics of Ireland that had a right to complain ance in this discussion. There was not one of them who of the English, and not the latter of the former. Yet out would have adopted the term robbery, used by the hon. of near one hundred persons confined in the state prisons in member. Did the hon. member know that Fox, Grattan, 1798, they did not find more than three catholics. If, Tooke, and other high names, had received grants from however, they had joined in the revolution, would it have the people, differing in form, but in one respect alike, be been wonderful that a people out of the pale of the consti- cause the contribution was voluntary? Robbery was no tution had followed the example of those who were emu- word to be thus applied. As to what had been said of po lating the great effort that had been made with a view to litical adventurers, he (Mr. O'Connor)believed there might political regeneration? Would it have been extraordinary be such in the House of Commons, and he dared to say if a people so excluded had felt the shock of this great po- there we r e . ( Cheers from the Irish members.) Healing litical earthquake? The late Mr. Canning was of opinion measures, too, had been talked of ; but the hon. member that the act of union was passed to prevent the infliction of had taken rather a curious mode of promoting tranquillity further penal laws. What Mr. Canning said was this : and repose. To talk of priestcraft was not the way to " Here, therefore, we have the creed of the protestant conciliate the people of Ireland ; to taunt a member of that party. They are willing to adopt the union • failing in house with the performance of a respectful rite to a mini that, to continue their struggle for the ascendancy." Have ster of his religion, was the way to promote not peace, but they received any of the advantages that were promised prejudice. If the re p ealers in that house were so bad—if from the union? No ; and he would tell them why—be- they were treacherous political adventurers, agitators, and cause the people were no parties to it. The slave-mer- the dupes to priestcraft, the sooner the house got rid of chant was sent amongst them backed by English gold, and them the better. (Hear, from the repeal members.) They the liberties of the country were bought. The hon. gentle- (the Irish members) had characters to protect, dear to man then referred to the treatment of the Irish tenantry, them as was the hon. member's for Belfast ; and he (Mr. and contrasted the general character of a landholder's O'Connor) could assure the hon. member it did not add agent in England with that of the agents for the Irish much to his reputation to designate a respectable body by landholders. The former, he said, sympathized with the the title of political adventurers. tenant, and by showing due consideration for the tenant's Mr. TENNANT rose to explain, but in so low a voice interests, maintained the value of his principal's property. that it was with difficulty we could catch his meaning. We The Irish agent, on the contrary, was often a lawyer—felt understood him to say, that, in his own district, a class of no interest in the land—and resorted to all possible means men had been called into operation as leading agitators, of drawing money from the tenant, in order that he might who had neither property, occupation, nor character. With put it into his own pocket. The agencies in Ireland, in regard to the other point, we understood him to express consequence of the absenteeism of the proprietors, was an- his regret at finding the seeming of religion made a cover other great source of Irish evils, and, in fact, acted as so to political purposes. many premiums for pauperising the land. What the harsh- Illr. F. O'CONNOR resumed—Did the right hon. ness and cruelty of the agency begun, the expense and chi- gentleman think that his speech or his declarations would canery of the law finished, and the tenantry neglected by retard the progress of the repeal question in Ireland? If the landlord, oppressed by the agent, and fleeced by the he thought so he was much mistaken ; on the contrary, law, were driven to beggary or exile. In England, though the opposition exhibited to it in England would increase the law was still too dear for the poor man, still when he the feeling in Ireland in its favour ten-fold. For his own resorted to it, he had his chance of justice. In Ireland it part he would only desert the question with life. As long was otherwise. Party and sectarian feelings polluted the as he lived he would be the advocate of repeal. No threat course of justice ; and though the evil may have been should deter him—he would maintain it to the death. No routed in high quarters, it rallied again in the jury box. act of the united parliament of England should ever prevent (Hear, hear.) Religion was not in England, as, unhap- him from giving it his support . He was awar e that his pily, in Ireland, the bane of social intercourse ; because in Majesty's ministers would not listen to his advice—he was this country the ministers of the established church did not aware that they would go on heaping insult upon insult, pronounce as damnable and idolatrous the tenets of those and oppression upon oppression, until, as he had already from the sweat of whose brows they wrung the means of their said, they would legalize rebellion and make revolution a pampered luxury. It had been argued that Ireland was virtue. (Hear.) The noble lord opposite had himself not taxed in her proportion, because the taxes were not said last year, that they could not legislate for Ireland. taken directly and on the spot ; but taxes, however indi- What,.after this admission, was Ireland then to expect from reedy drawn, were taxes still. What but taxation and ex- a reformed parliament ? In what wa y h a d th a t h ouse ac t e d cessive drain would reduce a country so naturally rich as towards Ireland ? They had received her complaints, it Ireland to her persent state of destitution ? Was not was true, but they treated them as so much waste paper. every trade and every profession' in Ireland taxed addition- Promises of relief were lavishly held out ; but in no in ally by the consequences of the union? Was not Ireland stance had those promises been realized. But when they taxed by the unavoidable absenteeism and expenditure of said they would continue to legislate for Ireland, there was the members sent to that house? Was she not taxed by the a question which it would be judicious for them first to necessity of the members of her liberal professions being corn- solve. Would the people of Ireland permit them ? pelledto come here to the Inns of Courts, to eat their dinners He said—no. The power of public opinion would and spend their property? Why was this? Because the be too great for them. Would they venture to de gentry of Ireland abandoned the place of their birth, and spise that power? Have they refused to listen to the the arts and literature of the country were compelled to united voice of eight millions of people? He would never follow their natural patrons. (Hear, hear.) But,did not give his ' sanction to any measure that would lead to England also feel the evils of absenteeship ? The Irish the shedding of blood. It was to save the effusion of blood peer, living in Piccadilly on ten or twelve thousand a year, that he advocated repeal ; and he would warn the Imperial is almost as wealthy, in comparison, as the English noble- Parliament to beware, lest, by resisting a just request, man with 40,0001. per annum • , for the former has no poor they might create a demand which they dared not refuse. law to fall in upon his property, and make him pay the He had now delivered his sentiments. (Loud cries of price of the wretchedness his absenteeism was instrumental " Hear, hear.") Honourable gentlemen might be impa in producing ? It was idle to say, that Ireland was not tient, but his words would be registered, and the remem immediately taxed in these indirect means ; and, to add brance of them would rise against the Whigs at a future further to her distress, the protecting duties had been re- day. (A laugh.) That his words would have but little moved from her trade. Arthur Young had been quoted effect there he was well aware, but they would not fall on the state of Ireland; but if the quotations had been unnoted on the other side of the Channel. In conclusion, more fully pursued, it would have been found that he spoke he wished to address a few words to the right hon. Secre in high terms of the aristocracy and landed proprietary terry for Ireland. He urged him to reflect on the wishes before the union. (Hear, hear.) The hon. gentleman of that country ; and in speaking to Ireland, to speak in who seconded the amendment would make the discussion such a manner as would insure a civil answer. He had of the repeal question treason, and an undue interference great respect for the right hon. gentleman, nor did he with the prerogative of the crown. The hon. gentleman doubt the goodness of his intentions. He hoped the right did not know the proper definition of treason. Treason hon. gentleman would consult his own natural disposition. made its progress in darkness and night—it cloaked itself He cautioned him not to be made a tool of by others ;he in obscurity, and made oaths its bonds. He (Mr. O'Con- cautioned him not to give his sanction to declarations and nor), and those who worked with him, were no traitors. Acts of Parliament, which, though they might pass through He desired to see the lords and commons of Ireland legis- that house, could not be carried into effect in Ireland. lating for Ireland in Ireland. If that was treason—if to He would tell him that those negative qualities for which love his country, and endeavour to compass her prosperity, he was so much praised at the commencement of the ses was to be a traitor, he gloried in the name. (Loud cheers sion, would not do now. Decision and action were now from the Irish members.) It would require more inge- required, and he called on him to remember, that he who nuity and dexterity than the hon. gentleman possessed, to made himself the stepping-stone by which others were to convert the discussion of this great national question into mount to power, must inevitably cover himself with treason. This was a question which must be met in a disgrace. He had now done. (Loud cries of " Hear.") great cause which he supported, hilt, forpthitely. needed no such humble assistance, for the ,!it.,i4e Of fte.?!, He was aware how imperieetiy chtild advocate the dom was the cause of God. (Cheers from the r epe,ili. , rs.,), Mr. LITTLETON said that the man the most cow versant with the Ergumeirts, historical, financial, and coin mercial, which bore upon this question, difficulty when called on to follow the speech of the hoe . member who had just sat down—a speech as wide of the . question, containing as little argument, as discursive anl as declamatory, as any he had ever heard within the wall? of that house. (Hear, hear .) The hon. and learned gentleman by whom this important question was intr, duced to the house, founded his motion on a varieTot statements of a financial, statistical, commercial, an d is' torical nature, and his right hon. friend (Mr. S. Bic h e might feel one in that extraordinary and powerful speech in which a; replied to him (Loud cheers), had followed the hon. a,tr, learned gentleman through all his arguments, and in iv,' opinion had most irrefragably confuted them, (Ha'', The hon. gentleman who had just sat down had tinder, taken to answer his right hon. friend, but he had lefnthis only the thread of his argument unbroken, but eve minutest details untouched. (Hear, The great 11;;"e evinced by his right hon. friend in that speceltmtd t h o g been felt by all who had the good fortune that it ; and he could say with confidence , this would hereafter be referred to as a complete manual on subject by all who on any future occasion should feel in' er i csted in the state of the question as a matter of Historical inquiry. His right honourable friend had enlarged to otherwise enter in t o felt a it his t i d o u n t yotfo these er variousi nt o. fully on this subject as to render it unnecessary f°r _, hl T a se go into many of those particulars which he s houlu, no t H de e tall sh sr ib-11- , t h o e would for a short time invite the attention of the Bol t the means by which this question was fostered in Irela n o t and to the inducements which were held out in its hie by the honourable and learned member for Dublin ad;"the supporters. One great argument was the existence ° A I the various evils alleged to arise from absenteeism , an j ° hon. and learned member proposed as the first act of a sub' mestic legislature to make various enactments on this ject. Now, it was incontrovertibly the fact that the es:0",1 of absenteeism existed from the earliest to the latter pet?o, of Irish history. The speeches of Flood and of gull and the motion of Vandeleur would establish the faet t !., - ,t, any gentleman who would give his mind to the 5 ,11.4 4 would soon be convinced that absenteeism was an evil r.' n ' o , ing to as great, if not to a greater extent before the lAt; j l than since. ( Hear.) This sentiment in favour of re !", - , l i; was not of the natural growth of Ireland. It was a t ' he timent wholly conceived at a late period, and pursd.`Z a hle was bound to say, for purposes of a selfish and unkist";, it description. (Cheers. ) If this was not the ease, t4 : l, not a most extraordinary thing, that from 1800 to t i -T it is the question of repeal was never once mentioned/I'par'. the walls of the Imperial House of Commons,? of ar. ) For the purpose of creating this cry 1 ° ' our of house, had addressed to the people of Ireland, r, peal, the hon. and learned gentleman, whose abseil, ' tio rEgretted in common with most of the members °' no . m rous meetings he was in the habit of attendin, ties 9 riety of arguments which, however absurd and ha i r. " th, y might be in that house, were calculated to proolo , powerful effect on the public mind in Ireland. The ° a besg ments the hon. and learned member had, for m otives ing ktrAvn to himself, thought roer to keep back in diseurj r the question here. (Hear, hear) The house w ould , t" - i t e is fore, forgive him if, for a few moments, he direcg ed h o attention to this point. He should set aside what the c li e3 l member for Belfast had justly called the rhaP s° -Nor rhymes in which the hon. member usually indulged. , d t he should he attempt to describe how often he had W o nt. Irish people that a domestic Legislature was al°n ° - ng to make Ireland std the yr Great, glorious, and free ; First flower of the earth and first gem of the.seo ad Laughter. As a further inducement to Irelandt ford, vocate repeal, the hon. and learned member P, g e ar, proposition of confiscation. No ! and loud cries f loes 0„ hear !") He declared that one of his first Hie o f 7$ v et, domestic Parliament would be, to propose a he w ee , cent. on all absentee landlords. (Hear.) l' a t o :k s, ra ther further. Lest it should happen that some )land) t he ris k o than be compelled to return to Ireland and run o od, the denunciation to which they might be the , ,'het meet member consent to hold their estates on such terms, mer.t member (and now the landlords might see the t . nu domestic .e• cies which they might expect to derive from a „.., ovem ber , gislature ) proposed in a public meeting, the 2Sth o ns to forego the proposition of a tax, and to sub .. t r i o m l _ ho ld' preventing any man having an estate in Ireland t t t his ing an estate in any other country. (Hear. ./ 5 . ) ember er, was one of the expedients by which the hon. nt itis .es s pected that English capitalists would be in stated ty speech of the hon. and learned gentleman's, lkine dinner' in the Dublin Pilot, made at the Clonda bishop ; was made in proposing the health of a Catholic h the hon. and learned member stated, what - their capital in Ireland. (Hear. ) This d o ges: nrepoo tend to raise the public estimation oat'ya, Hanes of Dr. Doy:e a nd Dr. h d 3 " i gn urr d . the paper spectable body only on e "-", Hear.)sl The sal' the repeal of the union. •k held out en another occasion at a on the 19th of December. There the hon. member said—he entreated the house to rei however ridiculous it might appear in thei parish meet things produced a great effect in Ireland—" b th o a d t y o ' t improve would mpre o vo almost eftthhee hc or a en p d. p i appear reo member's o b a , e r 10, ` measure he should expect to receive the why a domestic legislature was one for prevent having an estate in Ireland, from holding where." That hon. and learned member we a th nd en h , e fo b r el r i e e p v e e a d i w l a t s rneomtinsdpeodkehninirt on o i f eal a 1 liament would pass such a law. (Laughte) all laugh), and this tyrannical proscription was„ sure to be expected from that domestic pa; "i was to make Ireland " great, glorious, and ,_ was an extravagance in the proposition which absurd. (Hear.) But was it certain, if the hen' member ever had the misfortune to wee' ~I domestic legislature in Ireland that the proPe s ' s'antchokau,tndtenrsyotranr oeeyneb,dut tion of such a measure would be impossibl Was it not, on the contrary, quite clear, that measures by which he had raised this poP' would still be compelled to maintain his do (Hear, hear) ; and that although he believe d learned gentleman had already become weari., tient of the burden, in order to keep the roan favour, he would still be compelled to run I demand? (Cheers.) But this restriction sion of property would be a measure of pur e jus'ice in comparison of many which would speedily be under the necessity of prof domestic legislature. (Cheers.) But let a moment consider what would be the effect bond of property, one of the strongest links wl flier the people of the two countries, would g destroyed ; the ties of a common inter est wouh altogether, and whenever it should please th. gislature of the hon. and learned gentlemat v te'oe separation of the two countries, he would not be e. ht pe, A , by the interested clamour of an y man who mlCio patriotically a pprehensive of the loss of his proper,), groo land. (Loud cheers.) But the hon. and learde" V•t, man said he was for a federal union, and that 11 ;0 separatist. Let him say so. For his part, lie k g of 4 f teton) must say, that the man by whom measure description should be carried would be a separatist 1 , C 1 1, t tice (Hear, hear) ; and that the man, on the set a tl'',,. l p'e, by whom they should be proposed was a s e rto' L lO t theory. (Loud cheers. ) But they were told til,ite effects would ever ensue, because it would be reci r tl e t 0.5: p all measures, if an independent Parliament iced o itP fo ot" Ireland, should be submitted to both houses, an °stieit ceive the Royal assent. True, such was the trthek e sr constitution ; but to what extent was it mew l, ) ra tio ° should practically be true in Ireland? (Ctliee', - t let o o f hi! pealed from the hon. and learned gentlems o e ti te:‘ t o ti s " that he was no separatist to the whole c ha ,t, s e 4, 11 ; speeches and his conduct, and he maintained t ' 3 0 " he must be, if he were in his senses. (Cheer, s . .. aebtoeg' ter.) Shylock did not demand the life of iT ea rt k only demanded a pound of his flesh, near the trod; hear) ; and in like manner the hon. and learocleeil,oT man did not demand separation; he only d e° ,.,, 3 hle. 4 sures which should render separation ine"A'"all tt t l e ' cheers.) But the house had not yet heardoines3l4b;• vantages which were to ensue from , e r el l " t, gislature. He regretted extremely t h a t tn es ell and learned gentleman was not nosy, Ph he was most anx ions to have direc ted tion to an extract of a speech which wt. the Pilot newspaper as having been deliver' the dedication of the new Roman Catholic dare. " How," asked the hon. and learnt " how can any men sitting in London know our wishes, and what is right to be done 0 conduct of our affairs? How can you let sib and Why, if the Parliament were sit and your representatives were doing wrong. your short sticks in your hands Loud C' hear") some fine morning, and go 'up a1ic .. 1 .. b ; , honestly and rightly." ( Shouts of " "lent approbation from Mr. F. O'Connor an t , ; The hon. members for Cork and Drogh e n , recommendation. (Hear, hear. ) fie they did so. (Hear.) This was s aid to great and principal advantages of a dertu ( Hear, and laughter), and yet, in the same the hon. and learned gentleman gave suen cates violence, and talks about ,4 t h e red arm geance being for ever lifted up against the a fellow-creature's blood." One arguni et thousand rhetorical flourishes—,. Take :your your hands, and go up and tell them to v! rightly !" (Cheers and laughter. ) If there, man present, and peradventure there ha, were pluming themselves on the idea of h hon. member 'a domestic legislature h a\ o (A l beg most sincerely to tender them is or tions on the brilliant prospect before hi them mentary independence. (Cheers.) y, w_ eI rational and sober -thinking men they inviting, he could perfect l y well understate B ey ut lie bisnuy e . of L!h,nee o mt c e l iej u . t : rn : h t m e u giaasei nn o lP na ntty d i f ht r dnfe srt i ac t e e i aie n Ea oa rt t ut g ui t l,:n u : t r esria s t o f nting any another e en t on thong to sa i ):' ; , Lily n , a Irish 11, Hurra ter.) la „ 0 story to , i n oru' - / • - tes its n°, in ea' firs. , • h s the t wine e liant el ,l - - was dlearne an • $ Lan• havoc , eea acioy, posaocheer,, ble ? ( e sal n `. th bat J ter) h n oce , olni nio oti . that ,1 an 0 3- poi pi D ad of before on t he Pk( a n n a uncl n e o bt, s ue din g j e t w ounT h „ tis e dto the !et of Pia N hicll b e ee tir!;:t soon s b e e toe:r e so' the• a °— o ere ' e ki a n to liyucio, the j : e v seittel l' P' : ter' h"orte " d reP, c t , er- jl er`P g, e ; w „f l3 11 rnea o'f li e no r e : tro .„ 10 T, t 3 of to c of ° o f tell th e el atia hey fi 0111 t1 1 :1 a applaul„ 51, s ectreroc;f :4 be one .lao, l eStie t x 131 :,, , a speeell def' a dvice be i , s ,•¢l 4o of an 6 010 5 1 " Ma n cOr o t. ent 11 a 5 tt u r short 5 oy t t iota 1101154,e11d,, e was ao,),fr, Ott be I, jo lying set e k, ,angb), ",rotilfe- t: )rdial e°ll6rsP'tt of their pile to inteo,u, i tv tt !re eitrenietioY t itand 1)0