The Sun. — London, England, 1827-06-02 00:00:00

the proportion of their increased numbers? A wise go vernment should no more devote all its energies to the in crease of wealth than a wise man. He preferred either of the Bills of 1815 or 1822 to this, which he declared to be an anomaly in the law. There was no article in the custom-house that was subjected to such regulations— It was impossible ever_to effect a tree trade in corn, and it was absurd to talk of putting food upon the same-footing as commodities which were not of prime necessity. Above all, be must contend against treating the interests of this country as a question of mere commercial policy, when all the proceeds of trade and commerce taken together formed but a small amoont in comparison ' with the as. ount and value of agricultural produce. The Noble Marquis had said, that the country ought to be, or must be, depen dent upon others foe some portion of the supply. What portion would the Noble Marquis name as that which it was desirable under the present arrangements of capi tal for the country to draw from abroad? The country could not prosper when the prices of grain were very low. The Noble Lord went on to object to the affixing a maxi mum to the price of corn in England, and especially to the fixing it at such a point as must be below a remunerating price in seasons of scarcity. If the price of corn was not to rise when the crop was deficient, how was it possible for the farmer to be paid? Ile was perfectly ready to call into immediate action the Bill of 1522, and even to attach a gra duated scale of duties to that Bill. Or he would make an alteration in the importation price of 70e., fixed by that Bill. But to the Bill before the House he was decidedly Ilium. The former Bills had been bills of compromise between the two interests, which were supposed to be op posed to each other ; but the present Bill was one of capi tulation, and it should never have his consent. He saw no reason for departing from the provisions of the Bill 'of 1922, unless it were to introduce some measure of increased protection rather to the agriculturiso. The price of goldin 1822, when that Bill was passed, bad been below the Mint price. The distress of the country had been greater in 1822 than it was at present. The only difference was, that the agri culture of the country required more proteetion now, be c ruse it had been longer in a state of depression ; and yet here was a call at once upon the landed interest to reduce their corn 109. a quarter. The Noble Lord -sat down by proposing an amendment, founded upon the Bill of 1815 ; the effect of which he said, would be to substitute an actual prohibition for the system of apparent prohibitory -duty set up by the - Present measure. Lord Viscount GODERICH was desirous to know to what price the Noble Lord's scheme of prohibition was meant to extend. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said, that if the House sanc tioned the principle of his amendment, the question of price could be settled afterwards. The House then divided, when the numbers were— For the Amendment Against it Majority for the —44. On our re-admission we foutid Lord FARNHAM on hit legs, contending that the averages struck ought to include the prices of. Ireland ; at present they extended. to Great Britain only. Lord GODERICH, said, that the Act empowered his Majesty •to make additions at his pleasure to the ports at which .the avesages4weror directed to be struck. Lord ELLEN-BOROUGH supported the extension .of the averages tOlrelamt. • Earl STANHOPE contended that it was fit that She whole matter eotineetM with the bill should he brought-b - fore the house irt once. The - Eaa of LAUDERDALE said that the .inconveni ence of not placing the circumstances of the Bill all before the House at once were very great. There was a Bill sOll pending in the otter /louse upon the averages ; and if dirt happened to be tbrown out, all-the labour of their Lord ships so far would be thrown away. The Noble Efirl farther objected to the manner which had been used, and, under the provisions of the Bill, was to be continued to IR used, of striking the averages. The Earl of HARROWBY thought that, as the present Bill was framed with some sort of reference to the effect of the former Bills, it would be most convenient that the averages should continue to be taken under it in the same way as under the,fOrmer .Bills they had been taken. The_Bishop of BATH and, .WELLS opposed the prin ciple of the Bill the-effect of which, he said, must be to 'throw the light Wads, of tho - eountry out of cultivation, and to crowd thetpostsboststs-Witis-'oue peasantry. Lord MAIIIIIESTRTRir thoutht that the calculation of the averages ouglreittliiei,*le'tli'prices in Ireland. Lord GODERICILiaid that there could be no difficulty in. point of form, to die House - introducing the average of Irish cortt"specifieally into the Bill, or in adding to the ports already named for the , Cart . .illation of the averages some pert oeportsin Ireland. -It was then agreed that the average should stand gene rally—L., Thei,ayerage of corn in, the market, made up by law;" the word " *itiahl.being omitted. ; Lord ROSSLYN proposed an amendment, imposing certain restrictions under the warehousing system, which was ,opposed by Lords Goderich, Harrowby, and Lens . _ _ _ down, and supported by Lords Lauderdale, Ellenborough, and Reclesdale. Their Lordships were then about to divide when-r The Duke of WELLINGTON objected to the clause proposed by the Noble Lord . (Rosslyn); because he should always feel disinclined to place the warehousing system-4 system in which property to a considerable amount was embarked—on any other than a secure foundation.— Having attended the committee on the corn trade, and having carefully read over the evidence taken before that • committee, it appeared to him absolutely necessary that the -warehousing system should not be made a vehicle of fraud, by means of taking averages.—(Hear.)—He had reason to believe that his Noble Friend (Lord Goderich) would not be indisposed to accede to another measure which he (the "Duke of Wellington) intended to propose to the committee measure which would have the double effect of placing the warehousing system on a secure footing, and remedy any frauds which might occur in the averages. He should therefore oppose the clause of the Noble Lord (Rosalyn), and propose, by way of amendment, that " foreign corn in bond should not be taken out of bond until the average price of corn shall have reached 66s:"—(Hear.) Lord GODERICII said that his Noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington) had very much misunderstood lam, if lie supposed that he (Lord Goderich) had ever expressedidiri self in favour of this clause. The fact was quite the "re verse; for he was of opinion that if the clause of the Noble Puke were adopted, its introduction must, as a necessary consequence; lead to the rejection of the Bill altogether.— (Cries of " No, ' no," add laughter, from the Opposition benches.) He (Lord Goderich) was somewhat at a loss tb -'know what Noble Lords alluded to by these expressions Jf their merriment ; but this much he would say, that thosle Noble Lords should not laugh him'out of his opinions. lie felt it his duty to oppoie the amendment of the Noble DUke, because he felt that - it was at direct variance with the principles of the Bill, and would tend at once to encourage 'that prohibition which the Bill removed. It was some what singular that his Noble Friend, who had ample oppoe tunities, should not have discovered the imperfections of this • Bill until the present occasion. —(Hear, hear.) 'The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. He had never been a party to the framing of the Bill, which he never saw until printed ; and he had supported its general principles for the good of the country, but without. pledging himself to ' : ',s,upport all its clauses. , Lord GODERICH said he wished to stand fairly with ' *•.; IllsTonle Friend. Re adeistia his clause to be - that no cova in bond in warehouse or on ship-hoard should be taken out of bond until the average price of corn amounted to 665. The Duke of WELLINGTON expressed his assent, and addxl a few words in explanation, which were totally in audible below the bar. Lord ROSSLYN was understood to withdraw his Amendment. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and soon after the-result of 'the division to which their Lordships had come to was announced by the loud cheers of that side of the House in favour of which it bad taken place. Their 'Lordships continued in debate for some time after, and when the doors were again opened, we found the numbers to be as follows: For the Amendment 7B • Against it 74 Majority Lord DAC3E proposed, as an amendment, that the period for taking the averages should be extended over a period of six weeks ii:stead of one. Lord GODERICII said, that with respect to the Noble Lord's proposition, it had always appeared to hitu that it should be decided by the pract►cal opinions of those beat acquainted with the subject. A great deal might be said in favour of the clause as it now stood in another place; the preponderance of opinion was in favour of the Bill in its present state, but it was not a point on which he should set his own opinion against that of others; he had, there fore, nonbjection to the amendment. Other Aniendments having been agreed to, The Earl of MALMESBURY observed, that it being a late hour, he thought it would be better to adjourn the further consideration of the Bill. • Lord GODERICH was very glad to adopt the ougges tion of the Noble Earl, and the further consideration of the Bill was fixed for Wednesday. The House adjourned at Half-past Twelve, till `Wednesday HOUSE OF COMMONS, FRIDAY, JuNx I. At as early an hour as two o'clock this day the gallery of the House was filled, and all the avenues leading to it were crowded. So great was the in terest excited by the expectation of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's financial statement, that several Members posted their names in the body of the House, for the purpose of securing places. The Speaker entered the House a few minutes before four o'clock, and the House immediately pro ceeded to business. EDINBURGH OIL GAS COMPANY. Mr. W. DUNDAS brought up the Report of the Committee on the Edinburgh Gas Company. Mr. HUME said that, in 1824., a compact was entered into between the Edinburgh Oil Gas Company and the Edinburgh Coal Gas Com pany, that the one should not make gas from oil, nor the other from coal. After a while the Oil Gas Company found that the arrangement they had made was not profitable, and they called upon the House to sanction a breach of contract, and to permit them to make gas from coal. Qt► these grounds he opposed the Bill, and moved that the re port be taken into further consideration this day three months. Mr. W. DUNDAS defended the object of the proposed Bill. Sir R. FERGUSSON said, his Hon. Friend (Mr. Dundas) was like him (Sir R. Fergusson), a Proprietor of the Coal Gas Company ; and, therefore, he thought neither of them had a right to vote. — (A laugh.) Mr. W. DUNDAS said, he certainly had a 1001. share in the Coal Gas Company, which yielded 71. 10s. a-year, and he hoped this would not be "thought to disqualify him. Mr. ABERCROMBIE supported the Bill. -Mr. - BRIGHT thought it was a breach of faith to introduce the present Bill, and if there was faith or fairness in this fiouse the Bill ought to be re jected. Mr. LITTLETON spoke on the same side. After some observations from . Mr. Joss, Sir J. FoßsEs,and other Hon. Members, the House divided. For Mr. Hume's Amendment Against it Majority A Message from the Lords announced their Lordships' assent to several private Bills. ' WHITSUNTIDE HOLIDAYS. • 'Upcs.ll the motion of Mr. CANNING it was reinlved that the House, at its rising, should adjourn to Wednesday next. Upon the motion of Mr. CANNING the trouse then resolved into a Committee of Supply, The SPEAKER then left the Chair. THE BUDGET. Mr. CANNING addresSed the House to the following effect :—The task which it is this day my duty to perform, difficult as it must be at any time to a person called for the first time to perform it, is certainly not less so by the consideration that the picture of the financial state of the country which I have to bring forward is not one of unqua lified prosperity. Undoubtedly a complexion is thrown over the whole of it by the dark spots of particular parts, which has made a deeper impression than is perhaps warranted in this House and the country ; and it is a consolation, that the nearer one ap proaches, and the more accurately one looks into it, there is the more ground to hope that that complexion has been, in the opinion of the public, exaggerated; and, if it has, as it is impossible to suppose it has not, there are and will be, nevertheless. the means and determination to repair it. Sir, the financial situa tion of the country is undoubtedly one which requires to be looked at with a steady and scrutinizing eye, but in proportion as that scrutiny is accurate and steady I am happy to say that it will be the justifica tion of hopes that the reparation is neither difficult nor remote.—(Cheers.)—Sir, without further pre face, as a proof of the sincerity with which I. mean to deal with this subject, I shall proceed to state, in the first instance, what was our precise financial situation at the end of the past year; secondly, to combine and compare, as has been the habit of my Noble Friend, my predecessor in this place, that one year with several years preceding; and lastly, to•suggest the provision for the present year, and to state the grounds on which I think myself authorized to look forward with encourage ment to the future. Sir, in stating the first and second of these heads, namely, our situation at the end of the last financial year, andour situation at the end of that year,combined with the year preceding, I shall pro duce papers, which I am sure every gentleman who may look at them, will be able to verify and compare. With respect to the third head, the present and the future, I can only again appeal to the manifestation I have given, of the sincerity with which I mean to treat this subject, in ab staining from further comment, merely stating that it is not my intention either to keep back any thing that ought to be brought for ward, or to state any thing unnecessarily; and I can assure the House at least, that I shall press no opinion upon them which I do not honestly and sincerely enter tain myself.—(Hear.)--Sir, to begin with the first head to which I have called the attention of the House—the state of our finances, at the end of the year 1826. At the end of that year, after balancing the income and expenditure of the year, there remained a surplus towards defray ing the Sinking Fund of only one million. The amount.applicable to the Sinking Fund of that year, was five millions five hundred thousand pounds; there was, therefore, an apparent deficit of four millions five hundred thousand pounds.- I state this amount, because from that deficit are to be deducted two sums which considerably reduce it. The first of these sums; is the aggre gate of the advances made from the Exchequer, under several Acts of Parliament, either for public works in Great Britain and Ireland, or for the pur- Chase of beneficial interests, which are not only likely but certain to make a more than adequate return. It is quite obvious, that money laid out in this manner, and for which the claims are available and outstanding, is not to be fairly placed to the expenditure of any particular year.—(Hear.)—Those expenses occurred upon a balance which took place in the preceding year, to the amount of twelve hundred thousand pounds. The particulars of those advances, I think I may spare the time of the House, by not detailing the papers which would be unnecessary, for every Gentleman has access to them, and by a reference to which he may immediately satisfy himself if he doubts my word. To this was to be added the circumstance, that in the course - of the year 1826, over-payments, or payments for expenses not incurred in either years, but defrayed in that year, occurred to the amount of twelie hundred thousand pounds; that also is to' be found in a specific paper. Those two sums of twelve hundred thousand voUnda each deduct ed from the 4,500,0001., which I have stated as the deficiency of the year, has left a clear defi ciency of 2,100,0001., including the payment to be made by law on account of the Sinking Fund. Such, Sir, was the state of our finances at the end of the year; but before we take that as the measure of the financial ability—still more as a proof of the financial ability of the country — it will be most fit and pro , * to refer to that process which I have 'Said my Noble Friend referred to, that of combining the par ticular year with the preceding year, and draw ing an average upon the whole, and an inference from the aggregate amount. Sir, it is just four years since the Sinking Fund was placed in its present more simple form ; those four years, therefore, naturally formed the period which it is proper to combine, in order to arrive at a general result.— Taking those four years combined, the total income of the country in those four years at two hundred and twenty nine millions and a fraction—say, in round numbers 230,000,000 the expenditure of those four years taken together, exclusive of the Sink ing Fund, was,—say for the purpose of dealing rith it more easily, 210,000,000 the surplus which which remained towards defraying the Sinking Fund for those • four years, we will say was twenty millioni. - The total aggregate income of the four years something under two hundred and thirty millions, -the total expenditure some thing under two hundred and ten millions, and the surplus remaining towards, the Sinking Fund, a trifle under , twenty millions. The 45a aim of the sinking fund for these four years was 21 millions and a quarter, leaving an apparent deficit for the four years in the whole expenditure of the country of 1,265,0001.; but against this deficiency, and the committee would see that it deserved that character, was to be placed the amount of the sums . advanced by the Exchequer for ,the,carrying on of the public : works, for valuable purchases made, oa account of the ustion,,, and which the public now possessed, as a security fur the money expended on them. It would therefore be manifestly unjust to consider the 2,400,0001. so advanced by the Exchequer, and re payable, as part of the actual expenditure ; deduct ing therefore the apparent deficiency of 1,265,000/. from the 2,400,0001., there •remains a real surplus of 1,100,000!. for the year, after defraying all the expendi ture of the country.- 7 -(Rear, hear.) I now proceed to state the income of the present year. The estimated Re ceipts of 1827, founded on the actual Receipts of 1826, amount to 54,600,000 T. The estimated Expenditure of 18.27, exclusive of Sink Fund, 51,700,0001. Add Sink ing Fund to Expenditure, and the account will stand thus:— Expenditure Sinking Fund 5,700,000 Total - £57,464,00 0 Leaving thus, I am sorry to say, a deficiency to be provided for in 1827, somewhat above 2,100,0007. Before I come to the statement of the present year, I wish to state the result of the Revenue of the last four years, supposing the data on which I proceed to be as accurate as those to which I have already referred. Income of the last four years, viz. 1823, 24, 25, and 26, exclusive of Advances and Repay menu , Estimated Income of 182'7 54,600,000 Total . £282,600,000 In adding the Income of the present year, I have omitted (as has been admitted), in the calculation of the preceding years, the amount arising from adVances- and repayments, and also so much of it as arose front grants and loans.. The estimated. Income of 1827 being' thus 54,600,0001., awl the estimated amount of that of the last four years giving a sum total of 242;60;0001., it remains next to consider the Expenditure of these four years, as i:orupared with the Estimated Expenditure of the present year: . , Expenditure of 1823, 24, 25, and 26 Estimated , Expenditure of 1627 51,810,000 Sum total £257,477,000 Leaving thereby .a surplus in the aggregate amount of the Income and Expenditure of the last five years of 26,000,000/. and something more. Surplus Srnkirig Fund, by law; iu 1823, 24, 25, and 26 • .-X1,22.7,1765 Ditto of 1W1:7 26,927,765 Deficiency of Income, in the 5 rears, to meet - - the Sinking Fund required by law X1,1304,765 This is the deficiency, as it were, by law,l laid on the Sinking Fund for a space Spread over five years, for which we were left to provide - out ''Of our - present resources., Now, Sir, from this retrospective consideration from the commencement of 1823 up to the end of the present year, it appears that the deficiency is something under 2,000,0001., which, on a revenue of nearly 300,000,000/. spread over five years, is not a deficiency to which I will not even say the House of Commons "should be reconciled, but which is much smaller than my apprehensions led me to anticipate, and much less than the House and the country generally conceived it to be.—(Hear, hear.)-- I am aware it may be said that there is a fallacy which pervades the whole of this statement, arising out of that circumstance, which is familiarly designated, and ge nerally named, the Dead Weight, but I think that -it is an entire mistake to consider that the operation of the dead weight can have the effect of falsifying this ac count. I ant willing to accede that the system has its faults—that it has the effect of complicating and obscuring our financial statements—(hear, hear,)—but I believe that on this account more blaMe has been attached to it than really belongs to it, and in respect to this particular account I contend, that it is an advantage mad a benefit to the country. The contribution from the Commis sioners, of Naval and Military Pensions within the last four years, amounted to 7,600,000/. But, Gen tlemen must not forget, that when that contribution, was established, no less than two millions of taxes were annually repealed ; and before it is supposed that the . Dead Weight produces an exaggerated account of the National income, Hon. Gentlemen must consider what amount of taxes was repealed only because this contribution was unposed. As I said before, nearly two millions of taxes per annum were repealed, and in the same period in which the dead weight produced the contribution of '7,600,000/., those taxes, if unrepealed, would have produced no less than 8,200,000/. So far from the amount of the income, therefore, being unfairly swelled on one • side, the fact is, that that side loses 600,000/. by the dead weight. I do not `mean to contest that the dead weight does not produce obscurity ; but as to the charges of swelling and inflaming the income of the country,l it is perfectly guiltless. In fact, as I said before, ' the income of the country would appear to be 600,0001. greater than it is now, if it were not for the Dead Weight. The continuance of those taxes if not repealed too, would leave a balance against the country of from 800,000/. to 1,200,000/. I repeat that this is not the opportunity to enter into the merits or demerits of the dead weight; I admit its faults, and frankly own that I was ignorant of its merits until I had occasion to examine into it. I believe too, that many other Hon. Gentlemen have the same impression which I had, and which impression will be removed by ex amination. I contend that the country has received substantial benefits, and when we come to consider the question with the Bank, whilst we calculate how much we shall gain, by simplifying our National accounts, and being enabled as it were, fairly to look our difficulties in the face, we must not forget that the price which must be paid for those advantages, is our tak ing up again a part of that burden, we had laid down, and from which we ,have been, relieved during a period of four years. More benefit will be derived from waiting for that time, than from prematurely adopt ing any iWeePitig Measure now. I forbear from giving any pledge upon this subject, further than this, and it is all that the House can expect, or the Government can do. (Hear.)—The Committee will not fail to perceive, that in all I have stated I have assumed the fact of the existence of a Sinking Fund, or of some fund by whatever name it is "called, which will have' the effect of pre serving our national fame, and prove a national benefit. I assume the existence of a fond which will enable us to meet any sudden financial difficulty or any unforeseen public exigency. The present year affords an illustration of all that I mean. During the present year we had a sudden falling off in the Revenue, and a foreign exigency coming upon us unawares; and I would ask, what would become of us if we were that country which should square its income and expenditure so exactly as not to be able to meet - the call which must ne cessarily be made in the event of those emergencies to which I have alluded.—(Cheers. )_I do not now inquire what amount of surplus revenue would meet such casualties, But if I might be allowed to give an opinion on such a subject, judging from experience, I should say, that it would require a proportion of . five millions out of fifty. In this particular I am mahr stating my impression to the House, and not by any means my deeided con viction. But, for the present year, the question which arises, and which the Committee have to decide is whether the deficiency which - I have stated in round numbers at three millions, and which there appears every prospect of being less at the end of the year, is to be made provision for by extraordinary means, by imposing new taxes, or whether we should take credit on the Consolidated Fund, and not decide fully upon making up the deficiency, and meeting our difficulties until the year 1827 is ended. .The question is, therefore, whether the amount of Exchequer Bills now out, is such as would bear the effect of this hypothetical action ; or whether the amount in circulation, and their price, is such as that it would be dangerous to admit the attempt. This may be known by considering their present price. Exchequer. Bill!, are now . at a premium of 50e. on the 1001., and it is well ,known that they bear a small interest. From the price, therefore, we cannot conclude that there is an overstocked market. The whOle amount of Exchequer Bills outstanding is 23,800,0001. supposing us even to go on at the rate we have for the four months past, supposing all the accounts we have receiv ed, I will not say of the reviving prosperity, but I may say of the reviving activity in manufactures. and commerce, prove fallacious, taking things at the worst, the COmmittee will agree with me that the utmost to which the amount of outstanding Exchequer Bills can extend at the expiration of the present year will he twenty six millions, seven hundred thousand pounds. Without taking any thing of the prophet on myself, however, and only consider ing the accounts which come from all parts of the country, I do not think I can be considered too sanguine when I suppose that there will be an accele• rated ratio of revenue during the rest of the year... But, supposing that we were to rely solely upon those re sources, calculating at the same rate for the remainder of the year, as for the portion already passed, even then there would be a lesser quantity of Exchequer Bills outstanding, than had ever been outstanding before within the last twenty years,--not as to the quantity actually in circula tion, but as to that quantity if added to the deficiency of the present year. I also beg to call the attention of the Committee to the 2 6,000,000 of Exchequer Bills now outstanding; one-fifth is of a different nature from the remaining four fifths, and from Exchequer Bills in general. The aggregate of these were advances made by Government, and now due to them to the amount of five millions. These were represented by the different public works, which, might be consi3c.ed as available, and convertible securities. This would reduce the amount of Exchequer Bills, even taking the most unfavourable view, so that including the deficiency of the present year, they weald Kinnunkil 21,009,0004 only is circulation, which is lesS than had ever been outstanding during the last 20 years.. UnAertheme circumstances I put it to the committee, whether it wilibe better to run the serious risk of defraying the expenditure to be provided for by an addition to the Exchequer tilts; ';twill be for them to compare the result. of such,,a proceeding with the effect which might ~be presumed to_ follow any other mode. For my own part, A•aip strongly inclined to that method to which I —first -alluded. The state of the couutry is now hopeful( ; its prosperity cannot be consider ed as completely, confined, but I trust that it is proceeding to return gradually to its former power and security. That it will attain it. I have no doubt, provided nothing extraordinary occurs ; and provided also, that it i* not haMpered by any thing which can divert the"course we which it has already entered. I state, Sir, that we have an improving revenue; but I am not so sanguine as to imagine that we can overtake the de ficiency which has occurred ; but it will be wise, neverthe len, to wait its realization or disappointment before we decide what other course is to be adopted. Sir, if I had to decide whether I should take a course like this without having the advantage of previously stating it to Parliament, I should :have felt the responsibility too great ; but, having that opportunity, and because I have nothing to keep secret or concealed —nothing to keep back, I have the courage to say that to wait and to expect is ,better than to be premature and precipitate. I have thus far stated the general principles on which I think it expedient and wise to proceed, rather than enter into any complicated accounts, or multiplied details, which may only add to the complication, and which belong to a department in which, lam free to admit, my experience is not very great.—( Hear, hear.)—My object has been to put forward the principles upon which I propose to proceed, in as con spicuous a way, as I wish. the course to be pursued to he clear and satisfactory. It only remains for me to state the Supplies for this yeae r -- Army £8,194,000 Navy 6,125,000 Ordnance Miscellaneous 2,275,000 Interest on Exchequer Bills 650,000 —18,892,000 The vote of 500,000/.. was rendered requisite on account of our troops in Portugal. The Right Hon. Gentleman then proceeded to state, that, besides the vote of credit, the ac counts on the Table state an excess in the Ways and Means of last year over the supply of £BOO,OOO Vote of credit 51,764,000 Sinking Fund Total Expenditure 57,464,000 Deficiency to be provided for in 1827 £2,864,000 Military and Naval Pensions 455,000 Debt from the Eaet India Company & Military Exper;rea. Duties on Sugar 30,000 Having proposed to provide for these charges on the Con solidated Fund, the Right Honourable Gentleman pro ceeded :—From what I have stated, it is for the Committee to decide, under the circumstances of the country, whether we shall go on through the present year, not in ignorance, but with a full knowledge of our situation, and abstain from a change until we await the growing effects of our present prospects of prosperity, rather than hastily press forward to that question of financial consideration which stands for next year, with a risk before us of deranging our present accounts, without knowing the possible effects of that derangement. In the supplies of last year there is an increase, beyond the estimated charge, of 800,0001. This increase arose from certain charges on account of Army Extraordivaries, and on account of the Vete of Credit for Portugal. I know it will be urged that it is desirable to bring us back to a fixed and certain expenditure. As to this, or any precise limit, or any future measure, I forbear from making any promises ; and for this reason, that I have always observed that promises of this kind are always exaggerated by those to whom they are made, and because, as more is expected than is held out, they generally end in diSappointnient. All I can say on the part of Government is, that Ministers are disposed and determined to apply their best efforts ; and that they have revolted to take the House into Counsel on the subject. This is all that, in the circumstances of the country, the House can expect, or the Government can do.—(Cheers.)—ln its present state, we should not even aid the country, but leave it to its na tural course, and before the gdoptien of goy new , unainge, wait until the prosperity of the nation was more unequi vocal.—(Hear, hear.)—l have a confident hope that the prosperity which has commenced will continue to increase-- that hope I found on a knowledge and reliance of its in trinsic energies—of its ascertained, though not now put forth power, rather than on any particular circumstances which might, in the statement, lead into minute and de tailed explanation.—(Cheers.)—Before I sit down I will, with the permission of the House, read an extract from an eminent authority, in support of the propriety and efficacy of the principles on which I have professed and avowed my reliance. " But there is still another cause, even more sa tisfactory than these, because it is of a still more extensive and permanent nature—that constant accumulation of Ca pital, that continual tendency to increase the operation is universally seen in a greater or lees proportion, whenever it is not obstructed by some public calamity, or by some mis taken and mischievous policy, but which must be conspi cuous and rapid indeed in any country which has at once arrived at an advanced state of commercial prosperity. —Simple and obvious as this principle is, and felt and observed as it must have been, iu a greater or less de gree, even from the earliest periods, I doubt whether it has ever been fully developed and sufficiently explained, but in the writings of an author of our times, now unfortunately no more (I mean the Author of a celebrated Treatise on the Wealth of Nations), whose extensive knowledge of de tail, and depth of philosophical research, will, I believe, furnish the best solution to every question connected with the history of commerce, or with the systems of political economy. This accumulation of capital arises from the continual application of a part, at least, of the profit oh tained - in each year, to increase the total amount of capital to he employed in a similar manner, and with continued profit, in the year following. The great mass of the pro perty of the nation is thus constantly increasing at com pound interest, the progress of which in any considerable period, is what at first view would appear incredible. Great as have been the effects of this cause already, they must be greater in future ; for its powers are augmented in proportion as they are exerted. It acts with a velocity continually accelerated, with a force continually increased. It may indeed, as we have ourselves experienced, be check ed or retarded by particular circumstances—it may for a time be interrupted, or even overpowered ; but, where there is a fund of productive labour and' active industry, it can nevor be totally extinguished. In the season of the severest calamity and distress, its operations will still counteract and diminish their effects; in the first re • turning interval of prosperity, it will be active to repair them; If we look to a period, like- the present, of conti;- :Med tranquillity, the difficulty will be to imagine limits to its operation. None can be found while there exists at home any one object of skill or industry short of its utmost - possible perfection—one spot of ground in the country capable of 'higher cultivation and' improvement ; or while there remains abroad any new market that can be explored or any existing market that can he extended. From the intercourse of commerce, it will in some measure partici pate in the growth of other nations—in all the possible varieties of their situations. The rude wants of countries emerging from barbarism, and the artificial and increasing demands of luxury and refinement, will equally open new sources of treasure and new fields of exertion, in every state of society, and in the remotest quarters of the globe. It is this principle which, I believe, according to the uni form result of history and experience, maintains, on the whole—in spite of the vicissitudes of fortune, and the die asters of empires--t continued course of successive im provement in the general order of the world." These are the words of Mr. Pitt. Adam Smith is the authority cited. Let those who regard the application of philosophy to po litics as innovation, go back with me to the principles avowed in this House by Mr. Pitt In 1792.—(Cheers.)-- I now speak them from my mouth—l adopt them as my principles—l proclaim them to Parliament as the guide soil pular star of my political course."--(The Right Hou. Gentleman sat down amid loud and continued cheers.) Mr. HUME observed, that the Right Hon. Gentleman had taken a very extensive view of the condition of the country ; and had very properly concluded it by admitting, what indeed it would have been impossible to escape from admitting, that there was a considerable deficiency in the income of the country as compared with its expenditure. The Right Hon. Gentleman had added, that that was a circumstance which did not create in his mind any despon dency. hi that sentiment he (Mr. Hume) so far agreed with the Right Hon. Gentleman, that he was persuaded we might call out resources, and make efforts commensurate with any difficulties which we might be required to meet. The great difference of opinion between the Right Hon. Gentleman ,and himself was on the question whether, after the experience of eleven or twelve years' peace, we were now to go on for another year cherishing those delusive expectations by which we had hitherto 'been deceived. Year after year, since the termination of the Isar, the House had been assured that the prosperity of the country was increasing ; and year after year had that assurance been falsified by the event. Going back to one of the periOds to which the Right Hon.,Gentleman bad adverted, the year 1792, let the House look at the difference between the financial condition of the country at that period, and its financial condition at the present moment. In 1792, the debt was only 223,000,0001. ; it was now above 500,000,0001. In 1792 the whole revenue was 16,000,060/. ; it was now 69,600,000/. Under such circumstances, could the House possibly feel justified in allowing another year to pass, with an avowed de falcation in the Revenue, and make no effort to arrest the evil ? He would only say, that if the House, with the knowledge upon the subject which it now pos sessed, were as regardless of the interests of the country as to, take no immediate step with respect to it, it would grossly fail in its duty. The intended ap pointment of a Committee of Finance in the next Ses. sion was dwelt upon by come Hon. Members ; but it ought to be recollected, that if the House were to set about the task immediately, they might make a beneficial reduc tion in our expenditure, while, on the ; other hand, a de lay until the next Session would have the effect of unne cessarily adding three or four millions more to our debt.— The Right Hon. Gentleman had favoured the-House with a quotation from Adam Smith ; . and on that foundation had built .a flattering prospect of increasing prosperity in the years to come. To him (Mr. Hume) such suppositions scented to be merely castles in the air, well calculated to anwee for the moment; but having no foundation whatever in the reality of things. Whet was the declaration that had been candidly made by the Right Hon. Gent. ? That after twelve years of peace, during which time we had been com pelled to borrow money every year, whenever the loan from the Bank stopped, they must make up their minds either to have recourse to a loan or to lay on new taxes.— Was it possible, after such a statement as that, that the House could allow his Majesty's Government to go on with the unexampled expenditure which had been hitherto permitted.? Instead of taking the more fair and manly course which so obviously presented itself, the Right Hon. Gent. had said, that we must be prepared to meet our difficulties at the end of another year. What prevented us from en deavouring to meet our. difficulties instantly ? But the Right Hon. Gentleman, it seemed, calculated on a great in crease in our productive wealth, resulting from a longseon tinned peace—from the opening of trade with new coun tries, and from the benefits derived from employing the profits derived from our existing capital. How could the Right lion. Gentleman thus shut his eyes to the facts of the case? Let him look at the state of the Shipping Interests; (lid they hold out any expectation of a realization of his anticipations? Again, what was the state of our Manufac turing interests ? 'Was thereon lion. Gentleman in that House, acquainted with the condition of the manufacturing districts, who would say, that it was probable the profits of manufactures would accumulate, as the Right Hon. Gentleman anticipated, to capital ? Look to any other mer cantile interest, and the same appearances would present themselves. The Right Hon. Gentleman argued, that the credit , of the country was high, because th e fund s were high; lite (Mr. liume'e) argument was directly the reverse ; and he would ask any commercial man in the House if his argument was not the better founded. The Rt. Hon. Gent. supposed that there would soon be increasing demands upon our commercial productions which must have a beneficial effect on the revenue. . Whence were those demands to proceed? From the reduced income of every member of the community at home, except the per sons who lived on the taxes, or from other countries? So far from their being any well-grounded expectation of in creased demand from either quarter, the probability was that the demand would be diminished. He should be glad to hear in what particular branches of our commerce or manufactures the Right Hon. Gentleman expected that that demand would manifest itself. The general interests of the - country, whether shipping, manufacturing, er com mercial, were in such a state that it was impossible they could long hold out under their present pressure. No one could deny:this. If we !net a man staggering along with a great weight to which his strength was evidently unequal, ought we to say, " 0 ! let hiin go on;. he will make his way ;" or would not humanity rather dictate that we should endeavour to relieve hint from a portion of his burden ? He (Mr. Hume) must once more protest against our large and extravagant establishments. Instead of having been diminished, they were actually larger than last. year, by the sum of 890,000/. Although the Right Hon. Gen tleman had not ventured to take the course which some of his predecessors had taken under similar circumstances, ~although he did not talk of our being in a cowl raßnding . situation, of otir. being on : a high eminence from which wo lodod dtml with F•onecipao opeciarity on the rest of the world (not one of all flourishing statements bid ever been founded in truss' verified by events), he spoke of the public credit as tlitt which he principally depended. He (Mr. Hume) sit- - wished that there was no such thing as public Credit-1 laugh.)—Enigm a ti ca l as i t m i g h t appear, pu blic ar o would be the rui n o f thi s country. I t was to su pport lid lie credit that Mr. Pitt established the Sinking Fund; f i r by the public credit thus sustained, be and suc ceeding,) nisters had b een ena bl e d to a dd 87 0 ,000 1 e to the inn,' debt. To a ll th e i n t erests o f t h e country i t eras deolic i , jurious, but to the agricultural interest especially a15 1 .A 13 %, The danger to th em was not remote ; i t was i i nnd lie was at a loss to understand, from the statement 0; Right Honour a bl e Gentleman, how the Bank Loan e° s : be beneficial. The fa c t was , th a t we h a d b een a ctuallY' i rowing money every year, for the purpose of keeising o og t h fo tohagep on Unfundeda i r rr a hie enutelb.hcluolepi borrowed onr o rnuoe do f plunwa a sedipeibsdno S st eu,y l r n nnhfs. o k tdi or: pounds ole.:enne F topmpb u ywrue n oi ;:dh.t millions, rtintsreeds: li oaptgea against atysta. protestedtithiecents. na:vnfteaetraattsh bj.tebeif: had ea istr a g s na: e ::to oe i 4 the absurd system of the Sinking ,Fund. It was n 1 ,;• 1 0 g iasEnebnv;geuBnlra2tdny2d- and t h wa re-purchased the same stock at eighty-three, and ee ss -u sli ninety-fire and ninety-six ; thereby occasioning w o e, public a considerable loss. He was prepared to P that, from the time of its establishment by Mr. 06 ei country had lost 224,000,0001. by the Sinking Last year the Unfunded Debt had been reduced; Pt td strongly protest e d, on th e par t o f t h e public, Wits* Right Hon. Gentleman's risking such a crisis as th n _ s t occurred before, by k ee pi ng u p so l arge an un funded p e w It was most injurio u s, an d oug h t not t o be s, pbl tioned by Parliament. Th e fi nances presente d theu e dt e spectacle of a diminished income and an la" - t expenditure. With res p ec t t o t h e re d uc tion rbs millions of taxes, to which the Right Hon. Gentlennf o s alluded, h e b egge d t o as k w h et h er t h e H ouse would e t agreed to th a t re d uc ti on if t h ey h a d t h oug h t t h a t it le°- t s be followed by an annual addition of two millions t° , oo , debt? At least he was cure that he would not ba le s ii , sented to the red uc ti on on th ose terms; nor did that it would ha ve b een consente d to b y hi s Hen: 'web' who then sat near him, although he did not know eo. they were now.—(A laugh).. -..Ay t h e woo at pi t pursued, our financial system was, so complicated demised it oa principle. He condemn itY l-ii r s tnu l: ga l er a l jes talti l \-e t li ) % l listens for endeavouring to enforce a Government smut country. Where was the majority—in the Gon l i g bi rw o r :inlsi t hbe h Ge e droa a dlt rin ,sopih y n i mcoi i pe n ,alex P letyr or t ti niooh g e a mi l mai? t h o G w vTe h ohv ie eiern is tu t io.i h g e i joi l o t o bi t i Honourable Gentleman had looked- for support ? M. n mwaitwhll o oloaue u rsusi itit•lausd i mpo ssiblel) people, elleyt:e, Gentleman '—Afo: t aon ythe was,n-iani expedition t seemed, l'r°g displaying a elan round which all liberal men rallied. He bad no obit' s .' ' to the Right Hon. Gentleman's doing so, if it were der e s his own expense; but he had a great obj ec ti on to Ilis. s f t i i so at the expence of the country. On thi s su bject ba' dil nion was so decided, that if the Right Hon. Gentlenonfros not state distinctly that our troops were coining awar so li Portugal, he (Mr. Hume) would bring the s ubject the consideration of the House before the close of tt ee sion. Again he put it to every man of common eer i e s el the House whether this country ought not to be " - ,:010 1 from taxation for the purpose of maintaining Oa ir e establishments far exceeding in extent the wants of e et of State. A free country ought to be protected in tirs eg ela r peace by an armed people, and not by an expeneive oif army. How striking a contrast, io that respect, d i _ u t tsa country present to one which we ought to dread no i le to any other in the world—he meant America! f f e l almost universal suffrage existed. For what svere t% e e bl lifications required to enable the people to choose th " - ase whom they were to be taxed The elections prr by ballot. In New York the election o f the e s , sident and of all the Officers of the Government, We' complished in two days, and with much less nn iee stoa' disturbance than attended the election of ss sioa g ' Friend, the Member for W es t m i ns t er . Th e only slit'e ss ere put to the electors to ascertain wh e th er or not the,' test qualified to vote, were, " Have y ou p a id y o ur pati sli ; hale Have you a musket, a coat, and a ccou t re ments; 411 ng he you done military service for three days ?" A in° Seel ; ' millions of people, they had only five regimenta' ssas ol was the striking contrast presented b e t ween this and that. Under all these circumstances, oug ht /fe 01 on blindly in our present souse? If any thing % a s to more importance to the country than another , it Awe keep the public expenditure within the income --to tote the expruces to the lowest pitch, and -to r elieve tbe t o& and industry of the country from the- pressure of th e t ote ) In the year ending the tsth of January, 182 4 , & g o amount of the public incom e wa s .C l ou t fifty-one no and a half, while the expenditure was a b ou t fifty and nhalf, leaving a surplus revenue of about a 1111 ot This was the real and bona fide statement of the s e t !' . fi v u o si for it was not fair in the Cha nce ll or o f th e Eleni l er to include in the account the repayment of • the age trian Loan, to the amount of 2,000,000 1 ., 03 "iftlia money borrowed on account of Naval Pensions• o e) last was a most ridiculous and absurd loan. All err items ought to be left out, and he (Mr. Hume) , fr era fore, confined himself strictly to the revenue arisingelt taxation. n as all that the country ought to f and every thing else included in the ac count was Ele t i la serted to produce a confusion and complexity calen w.- est mislead people. For the year 1825, the income Ws e to ler fifty-two millions, whilst the exp en dit ure was rathe r 10 that sum. In the year ending the sth of JanuarYt t ees die Revenue was 51,700,000/. an d th e Expendite.er e t esg 50,862,000/. In the su cce edi ng year , the incelitaq forty-nine millions and, a h a lf, w hil s t th e expe n d aits amounted to fifty-two millions, making in one Ye, s ,,,, r . oa s is ference to the country of between three and four 0 3 ,_'"2„..).' the balance of receipt and disbursements.._—(Hear ,- ,;00 This was the point to look to, as well as the conseq: that were likely to ensue. There would. be ats gre_as it e i d be ficit in-the current year. This increase of debt s" e ", e llo‘ reduced, instead of which the Right lion. the Cht n f it, of the Exchequer said, « let it lie over." For hi s f v en he could not conceive the financial wisdom, or el, bold' mon sense, nor indeed the common honesty of t i t - o gee' ing out the palpably delusive expectation that each 6 o siag ing year would be better. The country was ° list • p d e e r e a p e e v r er a a n n d ce dee in pe c i o • n e d v o e c ry t, year, whic hanedxphereiepnrceotieeat:dwearol rev son, told them was so ruinou s . Ne al Lord ALTHOItP although af r aid that the stated dot of the Right Hon. Gentleman were too sanguine , ° t here' the country required immediate retrenchment, did not t she fore agree with the Hon. Member for Aberdeen,' at House ought, at the present time, to press upon lifr eo , l ring. •It %V M not fair, upon the Right Limb Gen t t os coining into office, to compel him to go into VI I ro pe e „ . detail. It would be bad policy to do so with to the future reduction of the expenditure. Tot Fre Hon. Gentleman had expressed his intention Stb posing the, - in of a Finance Committe e s COre bid next Session of Parliament, and h e (Lord st l th or P i so doubt that it would be a Com m ittee entitled to ticile_sseef deuce of the country. The Ch ance llor of the Ex i'sfst well knew that it was impossible, at the- present dirt to any Committee to give satisfaction to the House or d det er public, unless fairly compo se d of gentlemen able an. _ A ow, mined to do their duty. He (Lord Althorp) loosrojeSt ward to the appointment of that Committee of great importance, for if he did not expect, n: 1 ; s eof' should not hereafter find, that it recommended ours, strict economy in every branch of the public experttp the it would be impossible for him to give his suppor t tit utel; Administration. If the Committee were fairly e° o ere tig li he felt no doubt that very great reductions would be wa Debt forward. lie thought the increase of the Vufunde uceo, would be dvantmagoereousr,eaadnyd than under himself othe rcitrocu:r'tsj t eeteo it ;$ no xtr man elwy but under all the present circumstances, he thoug h for the country that it should be agreed to. - o ,atiaf sc s Sir 11. PARNELL th oug ht th a t the most tn i pet tory part of the Finance st a t emen t was, that at i l ) : P e of twelve years th ere was no re d uc ti o n of the otcht, extremely thought it incumbent upon the Chancellor of f `i Pet:i( pier to devis e some means of redociog the N atie ; 1/ 0 He (Sir H. P arne ll) o bj e ct e d to the Sinking Fa °d f „e 0 co Mr. Pitt h a d b orr ow e d money upon the prine'lS 01 0 A Annuities, instead of upon that of the Sinking t u pe .d. , of hie debt would at this moment have been exkluss's or system of Long Annuities should new be r esort... lg o to the reduction of the debt. He could not ag ree d is ebl e lion. Member for Aberdeen, that the country' In on. Looking to the commercial history of Oa C AI ige 0 13 s r thou ht there was ever yho pe of its recovery frohl' toll vial the embarrassment. He looked forward to be ee the proposed Finance Committee as likely to be . 6 :1: 1 . se de s to the country. nt Colonel DAVIES said, that unless Parlianie be iitt ternsined to see every possible reduction made in t __ bs esteu . expenditure, the resources of the country would be i 000: 1 Lord MILTON could not entirely agree withs,..;eo bad Friend (Mr. Hume's) opinions. His lion• r" at onc e arraigned his Majesty's Government for not havingsote be i conic forward with some specific financial pan' a period (Vara Milton) thought, that if ever there v . ir .so d pees when it would be improper to introduce a eneon' t l ear ,)i ad manent financial plan, it was the present--( ll e ar 's sr e For although the distress under which the cow" a bide 10 0