The Sun. — London, England, 1834-05-03 00:00:00

TRADES' UNIONS. -PAROCHIAL MEETING. Yesterday erening a numerous meeting of the inhabi tants of St. Paul's, Covent-garden, was held in the Ves try-room, pursuant to pablic notice, for the purpose of considerin g th e su bj ect o f t h e Trades ' Unions, and taking steps to counteract their operation. Mr. WAKLER, parochial churchwarden = was called to the Chair. Mr. RICHARDSON, wine-- illrellatlt,• stated that he thought it his duty to co . :„ 0 f orwar d at the present time, when so much inuccenience was caused by the numerous combinations workmen. He would call upon them to remember the procession which took place on Monday weet, the alarm that was then excited, and the dangerous -onsegnences which might ensue if such proceedings were repeated. When this was taken into consideration, toge ther with the intimidation practised by the unions on peaceable workmen, he was sure he need make no further preface to the resolution he begged to move. He moved a resolution to the effect that " the kneeting viewed with regret and alarm the combination of vast numbers of the working classes, who, influenced by interested and design ing men, not only presnmed,.in the most arbitrary manner, to dictate to their employers, but, by acts of intimidation and violence, corivelled the co-operation of many of their well-disposed fellow-workmen, to the great inconvenience of trade, to the serious loss and injury to themselves and fa milies, and to the disturbance of the public peace." Mt. M'CALLAN seconded the resolution. ROCHE, solicitor, moved the second resolution— " That the meeting declare its determination to assist in every way calculated to counteract the designs contem plated by the trades' unions and their unprincipled ad visers; and resolve to withhold employment from every person identifying himself with their tyrannical proceed ings, and to submit to any delay or inconvenience, rather than that the unreasonable dictation of the trades' unions should be complied with." STEVENS, auctioneer, seconded the resolution. A PARISHIONER—The resolution, I presume, applies only to workpeople. It does not extend to tradesmen in any way. (No.) Another PARISHIONER-Does it pledge me to discharge my men, supposing that I know them to be connected with a union ? Mr. MacittN, auctioneer, said he apprehended the re -solution pledged them to discharge those men whose con duct was violent, and to discourage all intimidation. The CitAtitmaN—Why, Sir, those who hold up their hands for the resolution are bound by what it contains and no farther. INTICnous said that he had been informed by a respectable young man, that the whole of the unions, with the exception of one, subscribed and paid to each of the turn-out tailors 6s. a week. The excepted union paid ss. a week. The subscription of each unionist amounted to :2s. 6d. a week. Now, if tradesmen retained in their em ploy those men who belonged to unions, they virtually sup ported the turn-out tailors, and kept up the combination. A PARISHIONER—There are not twenty tradesmen in tha parish whose workmen do not belong to a union. How is it that no stir was made about these combinations before ? The builders and others have already suffered to a great extent by strikes. Why is it that we must inter fere because the tailors have turned out ? The builders cannot now discharge their men ; for an arrangement has been made, and if the men should be discharged, the builders could not get others to supply their places. Mr. FEW, solicitor, observed, that they had not assem bled for the purpose of causing differences between masters and servants, but to take measures for preserving the order and well-being of society. The strike of the tailors had nut brought him there, but he had come in consequence of the parade in the streets a few days ago, and of the open and practical attempt of servants to set themselves above their masters, which, if not checked, would tend to the subversion of society. They had no right to interfere in any competition between the tailors and their masters ; but he would ask those gentlemen who had homes and ser vants, to whom they wished well, whether they would not be doing good to them by supporting the resolution that had been moved, and by pledging themselves to keep order? A PARISHIONER—When our differences with our workmen are settled, are we to discharge them? (" No, no it would be a shame to ask you.") Mr. MicniN wished it to go forth explicitly to the public that the meeting had no tyrannical object in view ; that they had no intention of interfering between master and servant, and that their object was only to set their faces against that hydra-headed monster--the Unions. Let them consider the operation of the system. He would take the number of the Unionists at the lowest number 300,000. Suppose 50,000 men out of that number struck. The other Unionists would then be called upon to subscribe, perhaps at the rate of 2s. each a week, and the whole sum would amount to 25,000/. In addition to this, they boasted that they had a clear fund of 40,000/. When the Unions were so powerful it was impossible that tradesmen could make head against them, unless some decisive mea sures were taken. It was said that these Unions would work their own end, but he remembered that they had de signing men at their head, and he understood that their mode of operation was this :--While the tailors were un employed no other extensive trade would strike, but when the tailors succeeded in their combination, and gained employment, then the leaderi would say to the shoe makers or hatter—" Now you strike, and the tailors will subscribe for you." Thus they would go on bringing ruin upon the country, and, of course, upon themselves. Mr. Machin concluded by moving a resolution, " That the meeting disclaimed all right or intention to interfere with any regulations of the working classes, so long as each class confined itself to its separate calling, without co-ope rating with any other branch of trade, and refrained from acts of intimidation towards such as are willing and desir ous unmolestedly to follow their occupation." Mr. DARLEY, silk-dyer, seconded - the resolution. A PARISHIONER observed, that he understood from good authority, that the subscription of the unionists was only 2d. a week, and that fines went to the general fund. The tailors received 4s. 6d. a week only. They had long ago resolved to strike at the present time, in the spring, when the trade was brisk. Mr. 111‘CALLAN, - tailor, said that levies had been made on the bootmakers' union to the amount of 6d. a week, on the hatters Is. a week, goldbeaters Is., and on another trade 6d. a week, for the purpose of enabling the tailors to compete with their masters. He had been a workman himself, and though he was not now a workman, he had the same sympathy with them which he had always enter tained. His men, before the union leaders disturbed them, were sensible of this, and would have done anything to serve him, but after they had joined the union, their con duct became quite changed. The men were deluded. They were told that they would shortly march up to the goal of prosperity, where the rich would no longer revel in the luxuries of life produced by others. This sophistry was constantly sounded in their ears by seditious and de signing individuals ; and could they, then, wonder that these unfortunate men had been drawn into the vortex of destruction ? But let the tradesmen step forward and pull them from the pit ; in so doing they would not be guilty of oppression, but they would act as the best friends of the working classes. ( Cheers. ) Mr. H. ROBINSON, banker, said that though he had no doubt that the mighty fabric of domestic tyranny which had been alluded to would in a short time crumble to pieces under its own weight, yet he felt it was incumbent upon them to step forward before that time, and endeavour to rescue the working classes from the misery which awaited them, as well as to prevent a recurrence of the late alarm ing proceedings. He moved a resolution, "That the meet ing, being fully aware that the existing unions, blindly entered into, must shortly greatly increase the number of applicants for parochial relief, recommends the parochial officers to withhold such relief from all persons whose con duct as trades' unionists should unnecessarily throw them out of employ, and thereby reduce them, their wives, and families, to a state of pauperism and destitution ; and the inhabitant householders present at this meeting, collectively and individually, pledge themselves to support the parochial authorities in such a course of procedure.' Mr. CRIBB seconded the resolution and said that paro chial relief of course would be withheld only from those who unnecessarily left their employ. He had one fact to state which would show very forcibly the result of the strikes. He was connected with the savings bank of the parish, and a few days ago the wife of a tailor came there and drew 18s. out of the bank, the whole sum that had been collected there by little savings being one pound. He said to the woman, " What ! does your husband belong to the union ?" " Yes, Sir," was the reply, " he was obliged to join it. We have not a shilling in the world but what is here." Another fact worthy of remark was, that within the last twelve months there had been a considerable falling off in the small deposits which had been formerly made by working people. Mr. - IENV said he was convinced that firmness on the part of the masters would ultimately cause the submission of the men. He concluded by moving the following reso lution :—" That the meeting could not sufficiently repro bate the conduct of any tradesman who should, either for the purpose of obtaining present employment, or otherwise in any respect countenancing the uncalled-for and un principled combination now existing ; balk convinced, that if the masters were but true to themselves, they would be supported by the public, the guilty promoters of the mea sure would be detected and punished, and the misguided and over-awed speedily reinstated in full work." Mr. KNIGHT, druggist, seconded the resolution. Mr. M'CALLAN recommended that every master should make an appeal to the good sense of his workmen. It might be attended with some effect. Mr. CARROL thought it would be a more advisable course to pass resolutions having for their object the pro tection of those workmen who did not wish to join the union, than to agree to any strong propositions. How could the inhabitants of different parishes unite against the house tax, or the poor law bill, and at the same time cen sure the union of the working classes ? Mr. Fxw said that they endeavoured to defeat the house tax or the poor law bill by legitimate means. But the proceedings of the trades' unions were not legitimate; and if they were not checked, their houses might be entered, and every kind of outrage committed with impunity. Mr. BROAD did not think that the unionists had any such intentions as those imputed to them. They were the a i tt peg of designing men. He would advise a course of conciliation, and if that were ineffectual, then let the unionists suffer. The parish funds would not be open to them, and then they must either starve, emigrate, or re turn to their work. Let the masters determine to dis charge every unionist, and in that case what could the workmen do? With regard to the procession which had been alluded to, what could have been more orderly ? The unions were not unprecedented ; and if. they were illegal, then the political unions were illegal ; and yet it was well known that the Ministry had sanctioned them. Upon these grounds, he recommended that the resolutions should be more conciliatory. Mr. CRIBB said, he had never heard a more inconsistent speech than that of the last speaker. He would repeat again, that the meeting had no intention to injure the workmen, but to resist the combination of trades—the evil of which every one admitted—and to show the workmen the folly and the danger of the course they were pursuing. The resolutions were then put seriatim by the Chair man, and were all agreed to, the number of dissentients not exceeding four or five. Mr. MACHIN proposed a petition to the House of Com mons, praying that some measures might be adopted to check the evil complained of; but this was negatived by a large majority, the meeting being of opinion that as yet no such measures were requisite. Thanks were then voted to the Chairman, and the meet ing broke up. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, May 2. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY took his seat - on the Wool sack at four o'clock. Lord ELLENBOROUGH said he understood the house was to commence proceedings on the Warwick Bo rough Bill at a quarter before four o'clock, and it was now considerably after that time. Lord WYNFORD thought that the understanding was that the house was to commence public business at that period, and that at its conclusion they were to proceed with the Warwick Borough Bill. Lord KENYON considered the arrangement to be, that the presentation of petitions was to take place, from a quarter before four to five o'clock ; that then the house was to proceed with the Warwick Bo rough Bill till six o'clock, at which hour the public busi ness was to commence, and at its termination the consi deration of the Warwick Borough Bill was to be proceeded with till ten o'clock. After some further observations, their lordships pro ceeded to present petitions. Lord WYNFORD presented a petition from Blooms bury in favour of the established church. Earl FITZWILLIAM presented petitions from the dissenters of Leeds and Northallerton, praying relief from the disabilities under which they laboured. Also, peti tions from Glasgow, for the better observance of the Sab bath ; from the hand-loom weavers of Ayr, praying for the establishment of a board of trade, and from Dewsbury, for a separation of church and state. CORN LAWS. The NOBLE EARL also presented a petition from Perth, for the repeal of the corn laws. The noble earl concurred in its prayer. The Earl of MALMESBURY said that the statements in the petition would lead any person to believe that foreign corn was the only foreign article taxed. Now the contrary was the fact; for foreign shoes, hats, and other . articles of dress, as essential in the country to the life and comforts of its inhabitants as food, were taxed. He depre cated the presentation of petitions of this nature upon the face of them stating a gross fallacy. Earl FITZWILLIA3I admitted that foreign hats and shoes were taxed, but they were taxed at only thirty per cent., while corn was at a hundred. If his noble friend would only take the trouble of going to Dantzic, he would discover that the duty in this country on foreign corn was actually more than its cost price abroad. (Hear, hear, hear.) In his opinion, the corn laws were most mischievous to the farmer himself. Indeed, he doubted whether they were not productive of more mis chief to him than to any other class of individuals. (Hear. ) The legislature and the landlords had deluded the farmers by holding out to them the continual high price of corn. (Hear, hear.) If the legislature did not repeal the law, as it now stood, during the present session, every man in his senses would say that it would not be the law two years hence. He felt assured that in two years there would be a free trade in corn. (Hear.) By that he didnot mean that there would. be no duty on foreign corn, but that the duty would be levied for the purpose of re venue, but not for the purpose of protection. He could not agree with the noble earl opposite, that clothing was as essential as food. The Earl of MALMESBURY was not inclined to discuss that point with the noble earl, nor was he in the habit of snaking wagers, but he had no hesi tation in saying, that if the noble earl and himself were to take their stand in Palace-yard, the noble earl with plenty of bread, and he (the Earl of M.) well wrapped up in a great-coat, he would be the last to remove from his station. The Duke of WELLINGTON deprecated discussions of this nature upon the presentation of petitions, and denied that either the legislature or the landlords had deluded the farmers. The noble earl was also wrong in stating that the duty on corn was one hundred per cent. It might be true that, at Dantzic, the duty was more than the price of corn, but the premises upon which the noble earl made that assertion were founded in error. Earl FITZ WILLIAM agreed with the noble duke that it was impolitic, upon the presentation of petitions, to enter into discussions like the present. It had not been his intention to do so. It was his wish to have laid the petition he had to present on the table of the house sub silentio, but when the noble earl opposite had made a long speech upon the subject, the house must not be surprised if he made a longer. He ap pealed to his noble friend the Lord Privy Seal, whether, at the time the bill was introduced, he did not state that it would have the effect of giving a benefit to the land lord? The noble earl then presented a similar petition from Greenock. • The Earl of RIPON thought that it was impossible to say that the house and the landlords had been deluding the farmers by holding out to them the belief that they would obtain the high price of 80s. per quarter for wheat. He had never made such a statement, and his noble friend was mistaken if he thought so. His noble friend had said that in less than ten years the law on this subject would be altered. If he or any one could prove that the present corn laws were productive of the evils stated, he (Lord R. ) had no doubt that they would be altered, and he should be one of the first to consent to such alteration, but he would not agree to their being altered on Hie ground that the measure had been introduced for the purpose of protecting the landlords. He hoped that his noble friend would feel that it was neither just nor wise to mix up, with a question of such importance as the present, appeals to popular prejudices and passions, that could do no good. ( Hear, hear. ) Earl FITZWILLIAM would never make a statement in that house contrary to his own impressions. He thought that the landlord was the only person interested in the law as it at present stood, and what was more, he thought the interest of the landlord was small indeed in comparison with the value he put upon it. He felt perfectly satisfied that he had no interest whatever in the law as it at present stood. The noble earl then presented a similar petition from Sheffield. The Bishop of CHICHESTER presented a petition from certain inhabitants of Chichester, praying the house to pass some law to enable them to purchase lands from the dean and chapter. The Duke of RICHMOND bore testimony to the respectability of the signatures to the petition presented by his right reverend friend the Bishop of Chichester, and he considered it well worthy of the consideration of the house. ECCLESIASTICAL COMMISSION. The Bishop of LONDON would take that opportunity of stating that the returns of the ecclesiastical commission had been completed, and . would be shortly laid before their lordships. They had met with every assistance from the clergymen of every parish, and were prepared to make a report of the aggregate income of the clergy. The Earl of WINCHILSEA said that, with all respect to the noble earl at the head of the Government, and he begged to say that though he very materially differed with him, there was no man for whose political conduct he had more respect ; still he thought he would not be doing his duty to the country if he did not ask some questions respecting a statement which had been made in the other House of Parliament, with respect to a letter said to have been written by a noble marquis, late at'the head of the Government in Ireland. That reference was made during the discussion on the question of the repeal of the union, and it was stated that it re commended the means for the repeal of the union, and for the destruction of the established church in that country. Ile rose for the purpose of ask ing whether there was any foundation for such a report ? His opinion was that it was altogether a gross fabri cation on the part of those agitators who were the curse of Ireland, whose great object was destruction of the government and the church. No man could doubt of the sincerity of the noble earl (Grey) in his regard to the established church, and if he wanted proof, it was to be found in the answer of that noble earl to a deputation of dissenters that had waited upon him within these few days. For that answer he (Earl Winchilsea) returned him his most sincere thanks, and for his most candidavowal of the difficulties in which he was placed by the demands of the dissenters, he deserved the thanks of the country. If those statements went ußanswered they would give great pain to the friends of the church. Earl GREY, after thanking the noble earl for his courtesy in giving notice of his intention to ask the question, and thanking him for the encomiums which he had passed upon his conduct, said he must, notwith standing, express his infinite surprise that the question was put, after what had transpired in the other house only two evenings ago with regard to that letter which it was stated recommended thedestruction of the established church. The noble earl had given him credit for his professions in favour of the connection between church and state, and for his determination to uphold the church as at present established. He must then have concluded that, had such propositions been made to him from one in a high situation, an unmediate separation between him and that noble per son must have taken place. (Cheers.) He had no hesita tion in saying that such a proposition had never been made to him, or to any other person in the Govern ment. (Loud cheers.) He, at the same time, must admit that a letter was written to him by the noble mar quis of the date specified, a letter which was perfectly con sistent with the duty of that noble marquis, as it stated his views with respect to the situation of that unhappy country ( Ireland), and pointing out what he considered the best means of abating the evils which were its ruin. That letter was certainly of a most confidential nature, and when it was first alluded to in the other house, no intimation of the date was given (Hear, hear), and when his noble friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, questioned him ( Earl Grey) upon the subject he had given the same an swer that that noble lord had done in the first in stance, viz., that he had no recollection of such aletter. However, when the date was given, among a great mass of correspondence the letter was found, but how the confidence of the government had been so foully be trayed (Cheers) he could not possibly tell. The letter was one most certainly within the duty of the noble marquis in the situation which he filled, it was his duty to statehis views upon the best measures then under discussion by the Go vernment for the pacification of unhappy Ireland. At the same time he must again say, that the letter was most strictly confidential,—to be communicated only to the members of the Government who were deliberating upon the momentous question then under consideration. (Cheers.) Having stated so much, he trusted he hadstated enough to show that the letter was one to which no public reference ought to have been made by any one (Cheers), far less should it have been communicated to any one without the Cabinet. (Hear, hear.) Having said thus much, the noble earl added that he thought he had said quite enough to show that •the letter was one to which no public reference should or ought to have been made. (Hear, hear.) It was not for him to say how far any person who had got possession of such a letter the character of which was confidential, had made use of it, but speaking for himself, he must confess, that, with his nations of honour, if such a letter had come into his possession, lie should certainly have thought himself precluded, without the permission of the writer, and of the person to whom it was addressed, from making any use of it. He hoped their lordships would, however, not be lcdaway into a belief that there was anything in thatletter w hich tended in the slightest degree to throw any discredit on the noble marquis ; it was a letter which could not be produced, and it contained sentiments which partly led to the adoption of some great measures which were then under consideration. Whether the suggestions went farther or shorter than the measures which were actually adopted, could not be a matter of interest to the public. They were, however, the foundation of measures that were afterwards sanc tioned by the legislature, although the noble mar quis had subsequently changed his opinion respecting them. All he (Lord Grey) could say was that the letter was written in the greatest sincerity, and their lordships, he was sure, would not establish such an inconvenient, not to say mischievous doctrine, as to require to make public those discussions which had been made in private. (Hear, hear.) Their lordships would judge of ministers by their acts, and by their acts alone. (Hear.) He re peated, he could only regret that the necessity had arisen for the noble earl (Winchilsea) to ask the question which he had done, which would not have been necessary had there not been conduct of the most dishonourable kind practised. No one could believe that the noble marquis was the party who would sanction such conduct, and it could only have been done by the most treacherous malice. He hoped now that his explanation would be satisfactory to their lordships, and he could not but express how utterly at variance with that was becoming in any person, was the conduct to which he had alluded. The Earl of WINCHILSEA assured the noble earl that his explanation was not only satisfactory to him but to every man of honourable feelings. (Hear, hear.) He agreed with the noble earl that there had been a gross and base piece of treachery practised in the pub lication of that letter by those into whose possession it had passed, and he felt gratified that he had been the means of giving the noble earl the opportunity of making such a statement. He now hoped and trusted that that high minded nation, the people of Ireland, would see and treat as it deserved, the base character of those who could be guilty of such treachery. (Hear. ) MUSICAL FESTIVALS. The Duke of NEWCASTLE then rose, in pursuance of a notice which he had given, to bring forward the subject of the musical festival, which it was in contemplation to hold in Westminster Abbey. ( Hear, hear, hear. ) He considered that any music in a church, unaccom panied with prayer, was highly indecorous. It had been stated that George the Third was favourable to the prac tice, but he (the noble duke) was quite certain, that if George 111. had lived to the present time, he would not have sanctioned it. It had been objected to by the dean and chapter of Westminster, and they had requested that West minster Hall might be appropriated to that purpose. He should not have had so much objection to it if the money that was 'collected was to be appropriated towards the building of churches and chapels, but, instead of that, it was to go' towards the maintenance of decayed musi cians ; and he considered, that the cathedral having been consecrated to the service of Almighty God, it was profane and wicked to make use of it for any other purpose. The Earl of MALMESBURY thought the holding of the musical festival inWestminster Abbey, could not be con sidered as a desecration of that holy place. The churches in the metropolis were often desecrated, and grossly dese crated when any parish broils arose, but with respect to this subject, in no point of view could he take it :n the light in which the noble duke had. In the first place, the music was all sacred ; and, in the next place, if he was not misinformed, the object of it was a charitable object. Sacred music was performed in the cathedrals of Glouces ter, York, and several other cities, all under the authority of the prelates of the dioceses, and no objection had been offered to it because it was for a charitable purpose. If he thought that public worship was in any way impeded by the performances, he would at once hold with his noble friend ; but it did not interfere, at all events, with the public worship on Sundays. The objection to which the noble duke had alluded, from the dean and chapter, he believed arose from their apprehensions that the statues would be injured by the erection of the scaffolding ; and, under these circumstances, he hoped the noble duke would content himself' with what he had raised, and not press the subject any further. The Bishop of LONDON said he should be compromis ing his sincerity if he could conscientiously approve of the practice of holding a festival like the present in West minster Abbey. Upon this subject he had been grossly misrepresented, as if he had entertained a disrespect for the highest personage in the realm. His opinions on this subject were well known. He had always acted upon them, and he had objected to similar festivals, because he did not think it right th a t p l aces d ed i cate d to the worship of God should be turned to any other purpose. The Duke of CUMBERLAND said that he would be the last person to sanction anything which could in any shape prove injurious to the established church ; he did not, however, concur with his right rev. friend the Bishop of London, in thinking that such a festival as the present could in any way be injurious to the church, as its cele bration could not in any way interfere with the service of the church. (Hear, hear. ) The LORD CHANCELLOR said, that he regretted this conversation had taken place. (Hear, hear.) He was one of those who was appointed to act as steward at this festival—wholly approving of the object, which was one of pure charity to a deserving and unfortu nate class of persons, and to encourage an act which tended very much not only to innocent recreation, but also to humanize and soften the human disposition, and should therefore be encouraged rather than discouraged. He had most willingly acceded to having his name placed on the list as one of the stew ar d s , and he would as well as he was able perform its duties. This was not the first time these festivals had taken place in Westminster Abbey ; on the contrary, it would be deviating from the common course if they did not take place in the Abbey. (Hear, hear, hear.) He had been present himself upon two similar occasions in the cathedral of York, when these festivals took place in the presence and with the approbation of the primate of England. (Hear, hear. ) And when attempts had been made to express approbation in the usual way, his grace stated to the audience that that was not a place for such an exhibition. From that instant there was neither approbation nor disapprobation expressed. They had also before now taken place in Westminster Abbey under the patronage o f a monarch, than whom there was never on the throne a Prince more disposed to uphold the established religion of the country. He regretted that the subject had been brought forward, and ho sincerely hoped that it would be allowed to drop, without further notice.—( Hear. ) After a few words from the Duke of NEWCASTLE, the subject was dropped. Some messages from the Commons, on private bills, were brought up. WARWICK DISFRANCHISEMENT BILL. The house then proceeded to hear counsel and witnesses on the Warwick Disfranchisement Bill. Mr. HARRISON and Mr. Sergeant HEATH appeared in support of the bill. Mr. Sergeant MEREWETHER and Mr. FoLutrr ap peared for the petitioners against the bill. The first witnesses examined were Mr. Greenway (Lord Warwick's banker) and Mr. Brown (hislordship's steward). The next witness examined was Charles Crockett, a sawyer, with a view to show acts of treating. Mr. FOLLETT declined cross-examining the witness. Mr. HARRISON stated that he was not then prepared to call any more witnesses. The Earl of DURHAM then moved that the' further proceedings on the bill' be postponed until Tu es d ay. The LORD CHANCELLOR suggested that the exa mination of witnesses should be proceeded with at six o'clock preeisely. The house adjourned at a quarter to ten till Monday. HOUSE OF COMMONS, May 2. The SPEAKER took the chair at a quarter-past five o'clock. Mr.DUNLOP brought up the report on the Dumbarton Road Bill. Sir 0. MOSLEY moved the second reading of the Stafford Road Bill.—Agreed to. Mr. O'CALLAGHAN moved the second reading of the Tipperary Road Bill.—Agreed to. Mr. B YNG presented a petition from the graziers o Uxbridge, Middlesex, against the Islington Market Bill.— Referred to committee. DEATH OF 31R. R. LANDER. Lord ask the First Lord of the Admiralty if he had received any information respecting the lamented death of Mr. Richard Lander ? If that oc currence implicated any persons connected with the slave trade (Hear, hear) he (Lord M.) should think it would be perfectly justifiable to employ armed steam-boats, or any other:force that might be necessary to bring the offenders to]condign punishment. Sir JAMES GRAHAM replied, that a letter had been received from an officer on board one of his Majesty's ships of war, giving an account of the melancholy death of Mr. Lander. It appeared from that letter that the event took place 200 or 300 miles up the River Niger ; the circumstances which immediately led to it arose out of an ambuscade of the natives, and it would appear that some persons connected with the slave trade were not wanting to play their part; but as yet there was no confirmatory evi deride of the statement. It occurred, however, so far up the country, that the force employed on the coast could not possibly be of any service. His noble friend might depend upon it that the matter would be properly investigated. A message from the Lords announced that their Lord ships had agreed to the Marine Alliance Insurance Bill. Sir EDARD KNATCHBULL put a question to the noble lord the Secretary at War, relative to the accounts that had been published respecting the attacks made upon the British fishermen on the coast of France ; a class of persons, it must be acknowledged, worthy of the fullest protection government could afford. Lord PALMERSTON replied, that instructions upon the subject had been sent out to the English Ambassador in France, but at present there was no answer received. TRADE WITH PORTUGAL. Mr. ROBINSON said it was his intention, as he saw the noble lord ( Palmerston) in his place, to ask him whether he had received any information concerning an edict issued in Portugal affecting the commerce of this with that country. The SPEAKER reminded the hon. member that he was not strictly in order by pursuing the course he was fol lowing, as the order of the day was then about to be read. Mr. FINN rose for the purpose of presenting some petitions on the subject of tithes, but was interrupted by The SPEAKER, who intimated that the Irish Church Temporalities Bill stood first on the list that evening. Mr. ROBINSON said, as he was prevented from putting his question at the present, he should embrace he first opportunity he could obtain for that purpose. The proposition he was about to make affected the commerce of the country, and he considered that a subject of such importance occupied too little time in th at house. The SPEAKER remarked, that he threw no obstacl in the hon. gentleman's way, except what the per e formance of his duty bound him to do. (Hear, hear, hear.) Had it been the will of the house that the hon. member should proceed with his question, he might have done so, but as he was not actually in possession, he conceived he did not prevent him, except inasmuch as he was performing his duty. Mr. ROBINSON would not obtrude himself unne cessarily on the attention of the house, but as he saw the noble lord (Palmerston) i n his place, he was anxious to know whether the Government had recognised the decree issued by the court of Portugal to which he had alluded. If the house were not disposed to hear him then, he should give notice for bringing it under their consideration on Monday next. Lord PALMERSTON observed that he understood that the hon. gentleman had a question to propose, and he therefore came down for the purpose of hearing it put ; but he perceived a notice on the order book from the hon. gentleman which he did not understand. Mr. ROBINSON was merely anxious to know whether the government had received any intimation from Portugal, as he had in a private manner, concerning the decree issued in that country, which equalized all goods im ported into that kingdom. Lord PALMERSTON stated in reply, that he received information only on the previous day, that a reduction to the amount of 15 per cent was made on the duty levied on all British goods imported into Portugal. THE PENSION LIST. Mr. D. W. HARVEY gave notice that on ➢londay next he should move a call of the house, as he intended to bring the subject of the Pension List before their attention. CHURCH TEMPORALITIES—IRELAND BILL. Mr. IN TTLETON said that he intended to bring some amendments in. the Church Temporalities Bill before the house, which, would afford assistance to the commis sioners appointed to collect the levies made by vestries. What he had to propose, therefore, was, that the Treasury should be at liberty to advance 100,0001., to be repaid at such periods, and upon such a rate of interest, as should be agreed upon. (Hear, hear.) There were several important. amendments and regulations, but he would not occupy the house by entering at length into them. With respect to the deanery of Down, he had this day laid on the table of the house a copy of the Order of the King in Council upon the subject, which de tailed the plan thathad been recommended, from which it ap peared the income of the rectors and curates of the pa rishes had. been increased from 1121. to 340/., and that after making the necessary deductions for those increases, the dean had been left with an income of 1,040/. Upon the motion being put that the 100,000/. be ad vanced-- Mr. O'CONNELL considered this to be the proper time for him particularly to call the attention of the house to more substantial defects in this act than had yet been pointed out. The right hon. gentleman and the house ought to be aware that this act had given no relief to Ireland, except as to the church rates, and that the act of the 7th of George IV., commonly called Goulburn's Act, ought to be repealed. By leaving the statute as it was they could only expect to have the civil war about church rates continued. He trusted, therefore, that the right hon. gentleman would either bring in or support a bill with that object. If they did not pass some such measure it was useless to talk about the chapter of Irish grievances that had been done away with. For his own part he saw no evidence of it except in a few marginal scratches which left the chapter untouched, and in the equitable Billings gate which had been talked elsewhere. Mr. O'REILLY objected to the charge of any church expenditure whatever upon the public funds. He should also oppose the proposition with regard to bishops' leases. Mr' LEFROY said it was open to the hon. members to give notice of a substantive motion for repealing or amend ing the act, but not to adopt so unusual a course as to mix up such a question with one like that now before thehouse. Mr. Grattan, Mr. Ruthven, Mr. Walker, Mr. O'Con nell, and Mr. O'Reilly each spoke briefly in deprecation of the practice with regard to bishops' leases, and mentioned cases in which hardships had arisen to tenants who had been deprived of their leases after laying out large sums upon their farms in the expectation of renewal. Mr. HUME said that before the house was called upon to vote away a sum of money of this amount they ought to be informed what measures the Government intended to introduce for the permanent settlement of the grievances complained of by Ireland. He wished to know also whe ther it was intended to call every year upon the house for similar advances to the present. Mr. LITTLETON stated that by the operation of the Church Temporalities Act of last session it was calculated that funds to the amount of 170,0001. would be in the hands of the Ecclesiastical Commissioners, subject to lia bilities and- charges amounting to about 103,0001. The loan of 100,0001. now called for was on account of the vestry cess, and would be repaid in a very short period. Mr. HUME observed that as it appeared the loan was to be required for so very short a period, what necessity was there for charging it on the consolidated fund? His own real belief was that if this 100,0001. were once ob tained in the way proposed the people and that house would never hear of it again. (Hear, hear.) He should propose, co mmissioners for the issue of exchequer bills in Ireland , q b u y i t r h ed e sthheoruere ld fo be paid, not .naoytoof amendment, f endm thec e o n n t ol t i h d a a t t e t d h f e u n su d m , but re a w e -h t o, by in t e which o t r h d e i yn were e o u e r m s e p , 0 v, u , n e r d e e c r i t he would take ef care the to The hon. mem ei having b • moved this amendment, again eceived upon it until repaid. obtain sufficient security for its repayment, interest at the to come forward manfully in ca tion of Ireland. p aj e e r s t e y e ' n s t . m b i ministers Lord ALTHORP thought it was not a matter of much aungr-destate what measures they had to propose for the pacifi rate d of h f i o s ur m in the manner proposed,the amendment of or according to importance whether the sum required was to be advanced the h hon. member for Middlesex. He believed , however, that'the Commissioners for the issue of Exchequer Bills in Ireland had n ow a sufficient sum at their comm and to make the loan of 100,000 /. Mr. HUME observed that if between the Commis sioners for the issue of Exchequer Bills in England and in Ireland they could not raise the amount, the house ought to authorise them to make a larger issue for that purpose. • Mr. ROBINSON thought that when c all e d u p on f or a vo te of this kind they should receive some assurance or in formation upon the subject of the loan of 100,0001. for merly advanced on account of the Irish Church Tempora lities. Lord ALTHORP could only repeat the assurance he had given last Sessionupon the subject as to its repayment. M.. O'CONNELL was sorry to hear the noble lord give any assurance of the kind. That sum of money, which was last session voted as a sort of peaceoffering, could only be reobtained by reviv;ng all the miseries and renew in all the scenes of bloodshed and violence w hi c h had so g long distracted Ireland. Mr. LITTLETON explained. After a few observations from Mr. SINCLAIR and Mr. HUME in explanation, the resolution, as amended by Mr. Hume, was put and agreed to without a division. The house then resumed, and the report was ordered to be received on Monday. LIBERTY OF THE PRESS. On the Motion for the reading of the order of the day for the second reading of the Irish Tithes Bill, Mr. HUME inquired of the noble lord (Althorp) whether the Government intended to persist in filling the prisons with persons convicted of selling unstamped news papers, or whether they proposed mitigating any of the penalties of the act under which such prosecutions were instituted ? Lord ALTHORP replied that the whole subject of matters affecting the liberty of the press was now before a committee up stairs. The act to which the hon. member alluded would doubtless come under the consideration of that committee, but until their report was received, he thought it premature to enter into any discussion upon the subject. Mr. H. GRATTAN presented several petitions from different parts of Ireland, with signatures amounting alto gether to 14,000, against the Irish Tithes Bill. Similar petitions were presented by Mr. FITZGERALD and Mr. Fllkui from Louth and Kilkenny. TITHES (IRELAND) BILL. Mr. LITTLETON, in rising to move the second read ing of this bill, observed that whatever alteration it might be deemed advisable to make in its details, it would be more convenient to postpone their consideration till thebill came to be committed. There were one or two alterations which it was proposed by the government to make in it which he would now take the liberty of hinting at. The house would be aware that it had been originally proposed to institute a commission for estimating and settling the rate 'of composition in various parts throughout the country. It was now his intention to propose, when the bill went into c adopted. m m it t e e , A t n h o a t t a uniform h e r alteration vh c f h ls perh he had d c e t n o t should p . ropos b e wase in the case when the amount of commutation was increased in certain districts, as in the county of Down, by taking into consideration certain glebe or abbey lands, which, being naturally free from tithe, should also be exempted from the payment of any compensation under this act. It would, however, be the duty of the commissioners to have very strong prima facie evidence before them, that such grounds of exemption existed before they admitted such claims. He would also propose that the commissioners of woods and forests should be invested with a power of is suing a commission to value the lands. Besides, it was proposed to have a conveyancing office in Dublin, for the purpose of carrying the objects of the bill into effect. Mr. M. O'FERRALL objected to the bill as not cal culated to satisfy the Irish people, or even raise the cha racter of the Government. The fund appropriated to the 'church should be preserved to it ; further than that the Government should not go. (The hon. gentleman then entered into a long and off-repeated history of the evils of tithes in Ireland ; the partial insurrections they produced from 1735 ; the various measures of amendment proposed, including Mr. Goulburn's Act ; all of which he said failed in their effect.) Heretofore one-tenth of the produce was appropriated to the church, but now the charge was to be on the rental, whether the rental were according to the value of the land or not. The hon. member then pro ceeded to show the great inequality of the assessment in the various parts of the country, in some places ss. being assessed on an acre rented at 40s. ; in other places only 4d. on an acre rented at 40s. Mr. R. S. CAREW would move as an amendment the postponement of the motion for a week, in order to enable the rleht o. hon. Secretary to reconsider it. The noble lord' (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) stated, on introducing his English Tithe Bill, that he would regulate the tithe by an ad valorem estimate of the land. The same principle, he (Mr. Carew) contended, should be extended to Ireland. (Hear, hear.) He would state one fact as illustrative of the necessity of having some well-defined and well-under stood enactment on this teasing and complicated subject. In a parish in his county (Wexford) the people were of opinion, as they seemed too generally to be, that if they absented themselves from vestry they could not be assessed. The clergyman offered to compound for 4501. a-year, but the parishioners kept aloof from the vestry, in the fancy that they would escape the tithe altogether. The clergy man then sent up a notification to the Castle of Dublin ; and the Government accordingly despatched a cominis sioner, who assessed the tithes at 5001. Mr. FINN objected to the motion as one that would lay a tax on catholic property for the support of a protestant church. Mr. WARD said it was doubtful whether the present provisions of the bill were good for the church or not. Colonel DAVIES said the bill was unjust in principle, and would be inefficient in its operation. The honourable member quoted from the evidence of Mr. Delacour, a protestant ; Mr. Doyle, a Roman catholic prelate ; and a presbyterian minister, to show that the plan' proposed of making the tithes payable out of the rent would be attended with the worst effects. For what were all these sacrifices made ? To support religion ? No, but to support an established church. And what had been their effect with respect to that church ? Why, in one hundred and thirty years the members of that church had only increased in numbers 600,000, while the persecuted Roman catholics had increased in the same period 5,700,000. He admitted t e ll s t a s t b t l h i s e h r e e d w c e h r e w r in e h a ny good ; but men human among ustu re the was c le st rg iu y h o the u f m an whether under lawn or black or other sleeves, and the clergy practised hardships in respectoftithestha e t in no withway s increased hem oo rnigthi original their al W motion hWhat hn eor would popularity. otd with pt l hr e oe p w o saes amendment,pleasedwas thi n an e no i dtthhte to would support neither ; but at the proper period h would move an amendment to read the bill a second time that day take one shilling from existing incumbents, but as they fell off to limit the established church to the wants of its 'lock. Mr. LITTLETON said, it was quite clear that if some measure was not adopted to prevent the loss of the pro perty, and the church establishment was to be reduced in the way proposed, the property in a few years would be gone. That, he was quite sure, could not be the inten tion of the hon. and gallant member ; and, therefore, he regretted that he had not stated his view. His hon. friend the member for Kildare had read a series of resolutions which he said he had intended to propose had the rules of the house permitted him. In the first of these resolutions complaint was made of the intricacy of the measure. He (Mr. Littleton) must admit that since he had been in office he had considered two or three plans more simple than that which he had adopted ; but on examination he had found their very simplicity the cause of great injus tice. In fact, the property was in so complicated a state that a simple plan must do injustice, for it could not meet the many peculiarities. The next complaint was fixing the redemption of tithes upon the value of composition. He contended, however, that the course taken was the best possible one. If the bill of his right hon. friend (Mr. Goulburn) for the composition of tithes had been com pulsory there would have been a perfect basis for redemp tion. As it was, the bill of his right hon. friend (Mr. Stanley) had done much to cure the defect. It was true many objections had been made to the adoption of the com positions as value, but he must say they appeared to him invalid. "`lt was true that many exceptions had been made by the commissioners to the nominal value, but those exceptions had been well founded. (Hear.) The right honourable gentleman went through a number of the exceptions, and said that the practical actual result of the proceedings of the commissioners was that the estimated value was below the nominal value in two instances to one in which the nominal value was lower than the estimated value. His hon. friend, the member for Kildare, had favoured him with a copy of his resolutions. The second appeared to him founded upon a proposition of his noble friend (Lord Althorp) in the English Tithe Bill : but he would ask his hon. friend whether if there had been a long established composition in a considerable portion of the country, he would have adopted any such system of ave rage ? And further, it was the great inequality of tithes in Ireland that rendered an average valuation impracticable, unless great injustice was to be inflicted. The right hon. gentleman explained, as on a previous occasion, several of the causes of the irregularity. T he next proposition of his hon. friend was to fix the rent charge at once, not leaving five years open. If the landlords preferred that plan, he did not at all know that he should object to it. The fourth proposition he had adopted, and doubtless he drew it from erienol o g vped i events g theeat greatly of Government thefirst wouldTTithe e the same source as his hon. friend. The fifth proposition was that the land tax arising o pottn t seiet o icloas f ensts t ar i dt t e h iydn e ty s os h eoar o : u rtso l h. d be re deemed on ten years' purchase. Now he (Mr. Littleton) d dh h a noo a dndi he friend duty e otny e il fi v dhr e afin d y nl effort dy nannd succeedede ft. fully, l procure yH,eac do duof 1, some lt hgg those eo d a lwho t a eh ohu returnsa d p h o a d n b t t ei h les aehnt power head, m:so.erigel trouble the us hi t s fwahonohr and the house hoaa tithenetnee y. l iinfluence H a ou had sold further.c s o o de d dtLo f Aoynreto excite cap u filp i tel • stand the consequ , e a n n e d es. thought if the right lion. gentleman other public service he still would have Composition Bill who had brought it forward had never performed ample cause a f r a thought 4s. gh t pride. Wh en th e h on. member talked of an average payment of tith es, h e wou l d ask him to rememberthe 6d. the an 4d. acre, the an d d ea in dearest. another (A 1 4d au . g a h n o acr o e great inequalities and the inju s ti ce w hi c h must necessar il y result from such a measure . H e hi mse lf pa id in one in stancehe meant in proportio n t o th e va l ue o f th e l an d. (Hear, hear.) Th oug h h e wou ld a d vocate t h e presen t pro position, 'f and course he yet he would strenuously dissent from any measure which contemplated an appropriation of the church property other than the present. He would, at the same time, not withdraw his approbation from the effect of the Composition Act, which did away with the agistment in the south of Ireland. - Lord CLEMENTS said that when the government professed itself determined not to be intimidated from the collection, he also hoped it was resolved not to be intimi dated from the appropriation of tithes. (Cheers.) He had his doubts whether the present bill was the best mode which could be adopted 'for realizing the property of the church. (Hear, hear.) The measure, in his mind, was not only compliated, but the difficulties by which the question was beset were continued by a succession of acts which would be found useless in their application to Ire land. It was certain beyond the possibility of doubt that Ireland would not be satisfied with the bill. (Loud cheers from the Irish members.) Of the effects of compulsory 1 lmbaelnantdt' eat..'nrienioatllmeblvd3dyohirney i d t l I'ol It eedy. c eso o nin n t s ep pcs'ei n in Ireland he would state one insta of a de p s a itot r i i o sh uc w ee h hp i ut c t. h (vtHiot l e u ea n ir t i,t a e r hu i e l m y arh o .e ff )n e t re r d eq 7 l o u o r / ( : d as s t o eaft l i t ,all e ia . d ' tri,e ra iia te p ees„tprtr , , , , , nee. oat tft fi ihr • i i. oei e sm i , i g d s nehrlr t e: l .csi •_ ,Arni o ho,ssrohas u etetr, g h t the fair, and to complyyet this very Pf:: , under the com p ulsor y py Commutation Act, produced I,tor•',. being 309/. more than the incumbent had previously east Would such o n art, factory ot p pho e edte r ro p sha n e eb.l t nie u tipnsohc.etsesht a rru:prelhuoss t etam.r e muo d vde; imd b ?ae y bnded( t r l fcs i to e .hhr)e,e b e%l i rsc l . 1 ihi. oi b )cl e he f oafirrneeend annual ca e les da house, othxeio u s b t e o i s v a , tit tl e : 5, evils ,i, .stssildebto t ,vhheo l iv.ffbaueea.oniie3itencl:eusdesclibtoaamlioiitdxnwasix. oton. ooiviewtosfaetoui content nbrsvo o te,abt. f diailhv. a - %eu t e t. eiti h zte, h e pui Inist q gcoauihy question om.a e laddn s seo t ogoab i thloinshe. changing n ugr one it w t oi l . in i i e lcy c h o i tn n us name t e a l e el :nee:o:re i c i e (c o f the tia as the question before them was, whether Ireland woo, he wwtieol ll iul. e l lld r vn . rmoo L uiai FR 0 Y was of opinion average, l6 o o p e l. i r L t i t it eh i l e 'O e x in i c o che, clo 4, llfi t e measure, as regarded the redemption, would i li , e ' d ' re , T ieo o ahiersol tN:hsnafsh. nhe m eneNde4 at ! ih:bo ovrer h pld It:, o:,e effecto drirolhsofiro 0. a t li infi :enwoatioaas e sorelrhlecdti.i riisu,i_o(i..pKoteeietuclfhieanrilnotegspiiaTdyairiixletn,ein,ihriphhootcnidetageief:efhim:.:iptnl.aeeheechheilfedblts,sohteeaaoiuetsebtefgestl )01 rtrdhirlitluito o hivefaeoin ihereit f lasyaectifhtoy(eelesillttatpnri t esiireta gicpee,di i h reennescodtii oer.ei e go:osftarsarpoi ni vthts,enerpt„,noyasfeo,ee.o b reed. :a ssslii, doitarteeert..ite: , tns,lsdaei.afht 0: nss! tet,it l a, erif:tijulierieithehrhesonb e.i. nu,: ~,isti or ern' eir cb,io he that 1 ,et,,. ~ 000 , 0_,:i 41e mthel f la rruoeionrngnma.tet:fewhirst friend do . etuu, noltdtdHa on nxhe nte d et e h n e i denied whole,t h a ee t t ucP h ent i e e i n pr 3 o n la r n d el e ansai n in ta a'e' at bhu l lnloi . Ireland the nc e w m 2poao a oru i el n l.dc t i. e wh n a a i tv n he ce En o o n f o t a h n e d c . h u Somerch were ap r d o i spprrmotpi o o u rt s i o ut n a t t g e tbbteibiec i nt 0 ; 4 r c ea t e d the bill. ' Another would tmnth n hdee o imnt t, he honed either beam;:itne:::tiienetriltr; to aeitato ore of tithes were mixed up with 1/. of rent, the 01.1° .,„d that tot f ve th d the prices were very high, whereas those priet(butt by the adoption of this measure, they would overcoMe ~e , w eis dificulties in the collection of tithes in Ireland, "400 which were promised her as a much mistaken. He would promise them they l ad e ve e isters p imagined :;:eiting to send more troops to collect tithes th an . of Union. For his own Ti li h a t '' the ter l a p k a n e r part o r, m f e the st e l p m s sters should persist in such blind legislation prevent s3nt before. (Hear, hear.) He was surpritseothdt:.l:e: rests of that country ? Surely, a f te r wha o t_ ti hate de consider loffm l t i hne esoemffeectksnoofwfloedrmgeerfrnOrneaseuxrpeer'iC::ey;out7rieltl tthe ohs the Aet and to that he si , sure it inu -total abolos 0 , t . st erentually co as for t he ftlies il ' e „ . ithes. H its accomplishmen t. --ea ) On Kee, dotal abolition of people of Ireland had set their minds• t u t coul d pass would No act which the Imperial Parltarin.: hear.) t i t eal ...nstucti i He implored the house to abolish the comp - i of tithes in Ireland. He i tion, was her oul to et this ~ one of the first acts of gracmep t lored the housoeter unit:: that great object was obtained they that e /,,„ect . 6 ut an end to a't t' they could not t hat h belonged gi a ion or to faction. Ile avewedf not to a faction. (Hear, hear.) la ' -eit j Ire at Co l she had been wrecked on the Act of Union ; s ue ir not obtain her rights by a legitimate influence in the l i l ac , lattice, and faction, or what was in that house ternieuitoi reward for con . _..., people were determined not to pay tithes. (" Hear, be a few Irish members.) He knew it would be said that to was expressing only the sentiments of a faction. N ~... 0 . was ready to acknowledge that he did belong to a fan o ° A (Hear.) Yes, he admitted that Ireland was all b.uttbrui 7.: by faction (Hear),and . such being the case, i Le; necessary for some patriotic yerson to stand between.ttt be enabled to obtain their rights. This was the positl e e o yPteorrei resource—her r ' ll e a e r i_ l r i e a l h m a e l e ' r d n Parliament somene o l yulNlsdowepite(ill '1 ra.eroe gls aeseTrel a n ti b t h t e, i ej e a, nl ; f e r : t o ,t l i ,.. o , people and their oppressors, in order that the people Oro which the faction to which he belonged occupied. (11.4 and laughter.) He concluded by saying, "So help o' o , God, I believe if this bill be carried it will produce bill,e lotion in Ireland." adollpjtre-d,Fie%)u?dßbAenTefiTtAoNne sceotnotfenpdeerdsontshaatt thtehiespeese, haieff another, and therefore it was that he objected to like this fact, however, was that an act of confiscation bt'4'r, Marquis t x c N hl - cp ear u tg ld yl n ,: o , eo t roe le (cloi,tii. submitted to in this countfrye•linPtOs'l from some of the Irish members. ) Towards ~_ , ae d however; a system of odious tyranny was follow,, !'l ' t hat he supposed, because they had the Coercion B t i .t i t l, er l et , the country, they conceived they would be able to . I i d theinse.ve, payment of tithes. But in this they would lin i . ~i sted most wretchedly mistaken. The hon. gentleman hisew the of n g esea, . show larger than was necessa but that it was upheld for to f i d . a'tine the connection between the mere purpnse of conso 1 „ be - doubt that Lord Allee' two countries. There could no f ir e sea had p ans 1 in contemplation for the amelioration A itle7d-astoda,a taellidaterhileefelliarr trhgteelorftoroecythteonehulfeert,ttelrB:!o];:toa. land, annodtthoantlythethseatotahnes Iwr e is r h e f e ru hu st r r c a h ted es b ta y b h ils i shmi:3 ;; government. nGmreattitta. u )Betil called hueptohnerthtehahpt uwsaes potstee..usaen, a w ct oui o d f l e e n: fi s e n s c h a t i s i i n n c l i o k in e e t h 3 0 t i s , ) 7 t. c . v h o ea r Kith, uc 4u v saes eb e l. e ‘ o " f e - a r° ::: o n a r t 11 : : : I Y : written byVrAefeLrresadidto mi C od ol t e h n u e t l ment as he tPh d Ee i thedlls letter, uu C iut, E one people of Ireland to agitate, agitate, agitate. It A 1 • r that it q uite cea i„.. led ItwaY ''., government had suffered themselves to be ._ a io the advice which they received from the Of in therefore, for one, placed as much value on tCte one -GO', glesea, the consequence would have been a T `, ° t i., leo , noble the other. *ii?: gentleman through all his extravagallee, derived from tithe! Ireland. (Hear, hear. ) He would not.t ftolr m that the revenue of the church ~,o/, o r to mote amounted to any such sum as su m l,7o°'"—. would be r 0; than 600,000/. a year. (Hear.) That lw that in fact duced by the present measure to confiscated"- to the es: the property of the clergy would fthe landlord; tent of twenty per cent. for the benefit ° 1 rd the Melo, (Hear, hear.) It was stated by the noble(;ffeered to W e l', ber for Leitrim that a clergyman had . t ewt lis ocery 800/. a year for his tithes, which were af e L T . s e re'. tained by the commissioners to be worth leT., stior, here was a proof of moderation. (Hear, it ?' ) ruts f of obtaining e _ had been said about the unpopularity but , t) su ch s, I • ths' the tithes were paid by the landlord,nee, knowing .‘es objection he attached very little impor a in it , i n step' , ' bill 3 the system of letting lands tithe free hart ) ni. By this ... 'Hear, hear• proved most stisfactory. . h e supposed pips",e bonu wasgiven to the:landlords, which s But to show to . to Cerberus• , had on ly to tended to operate as 1 , , a 513 to which healludea ho _ p had the fallacy of the argumen estates iti the county h and the mention that li e seld i ts. o f which paid tithes, . nt, one o ow received s honour to rep From the letter he it bill ast,e,.. other was tithe free. makeulobtain if this p the.t Ito that which ust deny rent equa obliged to adue . it cha r y et while he was tithe with which was sit rent of the other for the h'nsnore, therefore, th aa la ile These arguments were noti who used them to de . __. palatable to their tenantry, by giving issue fatuus intended by those _.....___ a sensano: and mislead the people ; and by causing of the oleo : 1 n e a systorl succ or throughout the country to Keep e . , ive his Ai baneful underhand agitation. He show,' bge•ause he bor it to this bill, and the reason he did so was t, to thai`,,e• e the landlords would use their best endeavour, rrespooeie allowance out of , reduction of rents. ht' t t the slig oe Lord CLEMENTS never meant to eas ... t, ,I. i reflection on the cler man to whom he had . 11.1:_e_an had merely said that h gy .h' rs of that cli r)705,,,t to i t e paris tone . , that he rt i his offered him 700/. a year for hiss thes, . ners raise( take less than 800/. and that thcoin rrin°ot as affecting income to 009/ 1 ' - - --• ; a but all this lie statitu• t argeetent, agatu;t the character of the clergyman, but as the bill. • lion• and I 'to the weed "'I I reduce, tint Mr. D. BROWNE entirely eg bitt w ed , tt ,. le, gallant member for Sligo that t 1 :1 g 0 ,,, the reveuuttle,roit)etriy them a to as- the hon. gentleman had _.l,:ich ha d been 1 t church, but national property,;" stem ef c un a " taken from other purees' turd o f a proper s) s a t'on - f clergy. A Much as he aPPi.°Consent to the deterior :aft)... position, he never Would u pon as the property of the i si:riot, that which he looked r t to national purposes, ~ l i , be all' l e( 'rove ot re, and which ought to ton. He could not all e the4 h` for instance, as educa ber for Kildare ; but h. u . , be ; t he hon. member resolutions °'the revenues of the c hurch c lergy . that some portion of . tenence of the Catholiitet wore appropriated to the snap s to be broug' t i „ o toi t A motion embracing this subjectjvia ~ and tba b • for St. Alban s, •t by the hon. mein ei , 1 ohie ort. e t o should most assuredly have hts sunP . w _ the re ,et ow , Mr. GOULBURN asked whgct ?as Its ° b •i c sr ho Vo l. ' g i Vel l into the hands 0/ the which this bill was intended to e ; rupr i a tor ~_,. , V ol.' fact to declare that whereas the lay ' n lii under ttw_ i a r e chased tithes as a provision for his fain ___toot). i,_.,„a tion of existing laws, believing them to ..t g t,zet )ill foci lying on the legislature to protect his 0 11,- 4.,. ° I . 6 ',tueed r _ ta , the o, ~ that his income of 100/. a year was t s , O " - hi he ai r e n, as 50 per cent. He asserted that this _ co not , . tion of the bill, although its real o bject ', have be, n 0. ,. t ,, h stated as in common candour it ought t° 69th clause, ..!.!:,, required the utmost application to the wha t the °l, t he the bill contained, to be able to develop he bad hef.i_ co i tion of the measure was likely to be-- n lA t .e ► was e onrr i iii he had not been g uilty of anything like „..,„ r igli , 0 patience to go through it carefully, a . Cl , the description which lie had given of it. .I)%ttt tei..t,ta "c,„,ggerat'tlloo. gentleman opposite shook his head as if he a u ' ( .1, re' lllC ,l tO if he did not believe that it would effect any suu,,, at ,_„ as he had stated. If, however, the house wo l ie , _ 0 0i; a few of the details he was fully persuaded I,i,.;ess b able to satisfy them that the ultimate result of e n v % t hott, would be precisely such as lie attributed to it, t. ,e . i . ',,,,0 ; 0 , tithe was commuted for land. By the bill, 1t0e_ . ., 0 0 ! tended to be made a charge upon land. was tq endure for five years, and at the expirtolv This ar,r_ppisof tot ~~. el 1, 1116 , 01 1 1 / 1 "