The Sun. — London, England, 1842-02-15 00:00:00

(Hear, hear, hear) --would be, I conceive, of all cases that could be conceived by a Government and a Parliament, the most imprudent for Government to propose and for Parliament to adopt.—(Cries of" Hear, hear.') Sir, I. think it necessary, however I may be obliged to trespass on the indulgence of the HOuse in giving you my reasons for opposing, in this early stage, the measure of the Government, to state as briefly as I can the general 'principles which should guide our legislation upon this subject. Ido so, because al though in one point I should agree with the principles laid down by the first Minister of the Crown, there are other points on which I entirely differ from him. I suppose it will be agreed that with re spect to corn, as with respect to everything else, the general principle . is one of not legislating at all upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.) The general principle with regard to all commodities is, that the producer or the seller endeavours to produce and to bring to market that which is most likely to find a ret,dy and immediate pur chaser ; awl the purchaser, on his side , g o e s to marit,tiie, to (ntal the goods of which he is most, i;1 nee(i h best in their ohality, end the cheapest ro their pi-p i f. , therefore legheators have no ph-tee on the community themselves are far better gea the wisest Semite en tlle matter. eommu , nita themselves. in their several capacities, choose welch are the articles of they stand in need purchase them, and these —they choose ileum whern they articles whigh he producers thetrisives are ti best judeve of the articles they shall produce, and of the markets to which they bring their pro ducti,ans. This is a prire.tiple generally acinnewledged at excellent principles, it i s the present day, hut otner exeeedingly practie . c. 'l'co doubt there are limitations and cxecions with regard t o the appliea catien of that rule ;;und with reup:,,t, to Corn in parti cular I s hould say thero arc many limitations on which I myself oft.: - 'it had 0ccr.:.:07,. to observe. With regard to general tax .. ation, ns ;lb!) , says, yoa have no right to tax c,.:r3i tonnn; - ; fn)in I%lreign countries because your • own people he a general taxation, and because Met taxatiee would go erineipelly to factors and imperters. _flat with regard to any par ticidar taxation, without entering now—as Ido riot mean to enter—into that (petition, as to t; hat taxation is, and what,- its amount should be, the former and . those who cultivate the lend hear a readier tax, it is ..:Most that that they should bring theirnroducts into the marteet under this peculiar taxation, which protects the; merchant of foreign countries. There is another prineiple laid down upon the subject I Adam Smith, as the quo tetiosts endeelving it Wt.lt" :sort, he would read it to the House. (Tire ,!; n read the extract. It was to the elfaet that weer iii:tnufaeturer had bei nprotected and encouraged so as 1,, employ a great number of per sons, it should he a Question of prudence whether the protection duty whiL encouraged the manufacturer • sheull ha done away with that if it were done away with, it Should be done so with caution, 50 us not to throw those who were employed in it nut of eiu ploynient. The Lord then proceeded to prove this a principle laid down by a high au theri and Otte to whisk no objection could he made.) I therefore think your legislation is unwiee, and the effact of this legislation of yours has been to cause 'the occupation of certain lands, and the employment of many labourers upon them. You ahould creleaveur to protect the labourer.; in your own country front an oxen;:. or taxation. L'at, Sir, fetene then to nagree to ;t; 1311lell of protection as Might Le a- , .1 , :cd under these two beads. ii it should b. f; mad iii Committee-- if it siltullA he found, in discuss lag this matter in Coirmittee, that there tire: inadue pre ferences in the Country I mention, think they should be reineved. If, however, it should be proved that there arcs 310 such preferenees, it' there be eueoura gement given to agricidture by this law,. that rhould likewise be taken into consideration, but. the Government in proposing the plan now before-the - House, take a wider rauge ; they laid their prineinie far more wide ; they laid down the principle 'adopted by Malthus, Which princinle was acted upon be the Legislature of this countaa on a former occa sion. Y cu ought to make yourselves independent eftereign nations.—(Cheers.) NOW that is tire principle upon which the present law is :named—that is the principle upon which the proposithm of the Right Hon. Beronet is framed, and whicn tends to prevent, by prohibition' other nations from seruling food into this country. I coafess, therefore, although this proposition may be ex cellent to seine remote arid sequestered State—although it might suit a State iol?,iexico, I cannot conceive how it can be applicable to a great commercial country. Supposing it were desirable, in what manner would you establish it in .practice ? You meet recollect; it is not merely with respect to corn. The Eight HOD. Baronet stated the other night. that they had had for four yaars au importation of 4,300,000 quarters, so that it might be said that the people of the coup trya ere dependenthipon foreign countries for upwards of one ofquartersityeaa. iiith respect to the other comm odities the employs :tin;; of the people engaged in ma nufacturce as much depends upon the supply of the raw material as &ail. Iftlie supply ot cotton from America were stopped, or the supply of foreign silk, there would be not less.than five millions of people deprived of employment. There aiYuld be seven millions ofyour people, if you go on ! this principle, who were dependent upon foreign na tions for their- footle raid , who cannot but continue to be 'ail dependent—(Hear, hear)—so that it is evident 'that "any attempt. which you have made to make this canntry indepondent.of foreign countries has failed, and every such attempt must necessarily fail. The 1' conseerticeee bans pointed ou t in the Report of the Commit tee of this ilbuae in 4821 ; the consequence is, that whilst you ra? the' priee Of food in this. eountry .b.cyond the price ''tit' 'other continental countries, you give stimulus ' to agriculture, and . the faect, o'f that ' stimulus - in favottrabl , seasons was„ to produ c e a glut, in whiCh it was impossible to dispose. of all the corn pro duced.—(Hear, hear.) Tow, the inevitable consequence of that' that in those years you have the agricultural distress referred to in the report of 1821,--(llear, hear.) These were the years'in which agricultural distress was referred to in the speeches of the King, in reports or Committees, and in speeches in Parliament.—(Loud cheers.) You will find that these were the years of agrienitural distress, because there was no outlet and vent for the proclece.—(Hear, hear.) And what follows? You will find that after this glut there comes a check to the production, which is restricted to that which is suited to average years ; so that in unfavour able seasons you do not have the quantity of food which is necessary, and you are forced ttamake a large importation, and thus the object of the law is defeated, and you have not that constant supply which is desirable in ail years.—(Hear.) The only way in which I conceive this object of the law to be wished for at. all is in the case of war with foreign. nations. I cannot conceive greater time of a war than when this country was struggling against Napoleon.—(Vear, hear.) But, during the time of that war, two million quarters of corn were imported in one single year. — (Hear.) That importation was greatly diminished in sub sequent years ; but still at that time this country was admitting foreign corn, there being no law to prevent the Impertsiiion, and the people Vero living partly on the produce of other nations. But is there any chance or probability that you will have a greater war than that to contend with 2 . But if there • was, still I say, that resting as you wee upon commerce and inannfarture the you weesupply of food would be in danger ; bet ' it would' not be in the danger that is apprehended.--(hear,. hear.) Therefore, the - remedy should be the very reverse of that which, is proposed to the House remedy proposed to the House as taken ( f ji eel's.) The Hon. 4entleman's argument, is to e rom t h e Right endeavour as much as possible to protect our native and l to mane such a law as never to in have . 7 , 1 13 ' except from the northern . parts of any supply The Eight Honourable Gentleman in that argument e said that the countries with which we have our com merce, are nearly in the same latitude as this cometry is, and that, consequently, their seasons were nearly the dame as ours. In other words, the Right Honourable Baronet endeavoured to maintain that, As a necessary consequence, when those coun tries. he a d abundance of provisions , so w ou ld this coUntry hive" 'abundance, and when we would have a scarcity, so would they.--(Loud cheers from the Opposi tion Benches.) All that argument went upon the suppo sititm that we should have a law such as that which cxiite at present, which confines the supplies of this eTintry.—(llear, hear.) A real remedy could not be hatrin ' ththatwoty—our supplies shouts, net be restricted 1 f or Aionitted to t!iol,, c6,untries atom., hut instead of havalg_ourupply in those countries, a nd in the North of Enrope exclusvely, we should be supplied by the North of, Europe—by the countries adjacent to the Black Sea, ail(' by every .other country all over the world. oar commerce should be extended all over the whole world for the purpose of giving iv- ttmt supply of food of which we so greatly s t an d in - need.' b (llear, and w cheers.) Sir, the propolal no made to the — l -10 m, by the resolution proposed by tCe Right Hon. Baronet cpposite, niaiataius the principle of 'a slidine, scale, and it maintains the principle of a high duty.--(Loud cheers from the Opposition benches, and counter-cheers.) In objecting to that sliding scale, Sir. the first objection I take to it is, that a hi g h a nd prohibitory duty, I should say al ways, forms part of that scale.—(Hear, hear, and tut cheers.) I can understand a scale not . exceeding tn Os. or Lit., and guing down to 4.5. ' or 25., Or Is., but I d that wh enever H on . G ent l emen speak of a sliding 'scale, it always Contains a high and a prohibitory duty. W ha is tha first duty in this proposed measure ? The lfiz h td , uty is 20s. upon all foreign wheat.—(Hear.) I h , -aria to s h ow , fir st , t h at t h at i s a pro hibi tory d u ty. -- ,eers.) I have loo!:ed at the papers which contain the • latest the subject. I nformation - the House has had upon have looped at those papers which were presented to the House by th e Ei g ht H on . G en tl ema n, the Vice-P res i de I have looked e at te: the • Board of Trade, and also seated to 'Parliainen e papers which were pre last year, by a gentleman Who was expressly sat to the North of Euroye for the purpose of .., trade there— a gc l n se tk ertaiuing the precise -state Of lions there not only witll u e " wit° had commuseca • first t the Lightin :Jai a ril t ercl l ants htt ad p : rsonspersons, but also with /1 , , 1," ( ' there. I was curprised th E a r t e ( -e ble Gentleman (Sir Robert Peel) in the course o f I l i ? e ura b,hayingcollected aS he did, his information fr om ,' Gentleman's il papers, should have made an atteek :Ton that but when I looked at surprise altoge thee p a p„ re lir ". Gentleetan ther ceeeed, for I diecoverel that if other proof of the discretion .•*, th e ' p l A r l e t 1Y Ho nourable a entleman.---(4tughter and cheelin , ) b fi n d th a t the duty , upon. Wheat in Dantzie is 40s. e that the charges ..stffieh they say must n ecessar i ly incurred, and of 'Which I need not go into details, wou ld be.4s. 6d. to 55., snaking in all 10;. Gd. to be added to the original •p):ice ; that as the original' prico at Dantzic, when bibught from the interior of the country, would be 355., they say, with the addition of 10s. 6d., it would N ply .„ , be sold in England, making the price of 455. 6d. ----- ._ _•' 1- .41 , ha t have we to add to that ?—(flear)-205., Mak - — 7 --- jag t:is. Gd., when the priee.here is 505.; being of course a vrohil*ry (Cheers.)duty. And in the same way, at „- ~__ Odessa it`i -, in 264„ "4 the stated the return, that the price Will be thaootiecii freight . 193. ; of amuse, we must add to -ra. ges 'which we cannot take at less than _ss., AI rl • i ,s. there would be 615., without the profit of the merchant. Therefore, with respect to these lower sums, you see there shall be a prohibitory duty of 205., and that when corn is 555, there shall be a duty of 18s. ; yet in all these instances it would be shown that the duty would be pro . - hibitory. That when the price of grain is 555. and 565,, —the price at which the Right Hen. Gentleman says it ought to be —when that favourite and chosen price is the one, c an tell why that should be the price (Hear, pposition benches)--there would then be and fr i t mo ob t o h d e y o a prohibitory duty on foreign corn; true the Right Hon. G s cinlttil says, and he says most truly, " I think 20s. i icnt ;" and no doubt he i s p er f ec tly r i g ht c t e e n_i s a u n ffic —(Hear, hear.) I think those - duties of 455. and 475., as we had once when corn was 395., are odious, and ought not to be endured. I agree with the Right Hon. den- . tleman, and I think that in 1828,- if they said " 28s. will exclude foreign corn, we don't want a door stronger than to keep the corn ont"--f-if the doer he itself strung enough, we have no occasion to put on iron plates and locks ; therefore, we will be satisfied with a duty of 20s !—(Hear, hear.) But I must and db hope that we have arrived at a period in thi.4 question we have a greater claim than what is entertained in the pan proposed by- the Rig-ht Hon. Gentleman op posite, whi c h, though it make the old system appear rather Icss odious to the country, in reality is nothing but a mocery.—(Hear.) I have mentioned the price of corn at ammic avid Odesa, and if we reckon the aye- rage price o: corn at 455., the duty cf 2.0. raises it 64 ; ther,;fore, with respect to all foreign courarle:i, I maintain that this duty of 20s. is prohibitory ; it is not poseiblo for me to say, though I have endeavoured to ascertain it, at what price duty ceases to be pmhibitory, As tne price increases, and the mer chant gets a better price, the duty falls. I should aerding to the statement I have ma;k, that it could be imported at the present . which is 65., but it- appears to me that corn brought from Dantzie will be .t s. Gd.; which, with the proiits it requires, could hardly be add at the escut price of corn, namely sixty-one shillings. - t:p to this point you have a prohibitory duty. Nov, Sir, I need not icy that a prohibitory duty strikes at all the principles of trade. Ido not mean to eay every trade of the country, but at all the principles of trade. It is this that has caused so much mischief in the Corn-laws as they at present stand. The merchant 'bays an article in foreign countries, it may be at an advantageous price or not according to the market ; but aaer incurring great expense, after rna . l:ing himself liable to a large sum of money in order to bring articles from foreign countries, he finds, on bringing them to this country, a prohibitory ditty staring him in the face, uttering an insuperable obstacle to his trade by this impediment thrown iii its wa y .—(Hear, hear.) Thus is. the sliding scale in its nature inimical to trade. Now what has been the consequence during the last year oe some of these duties; it is stated very well in two pam phlets written on this subject, the one by Mr. Hubbard, _ _ and the other by Mr. Greg ; in one it is shown that, in June last—nay, I think on the sth of July, that the price of Dantzie wheat was 48s. a quarter, and you might have obtained it out of. bond at 545. ors Gs. a quarter. It was not admitted en the sth of August ; when corn had risen to Os, st ill it was not admitted; the speculator had mason to be lieve that he could obtain a better priCe for it. In the begirming of September, only two months aft-r when it mi:.•ht have been sold at i3s., was sold l'or 70:;. ; thu:3, being an addition of 22e. per quarter.—(Hoar, boar, and cbcer, , .) Was that a benefit to the English farmer—(Load chers) —or was it a benefit to the landowners of this country? tin it —(Cheers.) it was given to the foreign specuiators or holders of corn, thus bnefiting them alone, with out any benefit whatever to the consumer.—(Loud eheer.s) The corn was admitted at an enormous price without any benefit to the revenue or to the consumer.' Grog states, but I think it is an over calculation that he has made, but he states that the money paid to the holders of corn, and to the growers in foreign coun tries, was not less than 6,000,000/. As I said, I think that is over the stun, but I should think not less than 3 or 4,000,000!., have nevssarily ,been paid in order to obtain the hoi;.fits. of this sliding-scale. --(Loud cheers.) It was a tribute paid to the sliding scale, but a loss to the country. - -(Loud cheers.) Sir, I have another statement which I received to-day, which shows another evil of the sliding scale. Yea say that you will take tlyt duty according to those averages. The Right HOn. Baronet did not say how he would settle the averages. He said they shall not be altered, they shall be taken much in the same way as heretofore. NOW, 'take the averagei as you may, there is one effect inherent. they do not tell the quality of the corn.—(Hear.) Duriu..4 the present year, as has happened in one of the years, a great portion of the corn wtis fo rill cr very much damaged ; some persons, well ac quainted with agriculture, say not less than a fifth of the whole crop of England. The consequence; has . been a very great lowering of the price of corn in the market. fiet do the people get 'their bread at all cheaper ?—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") You have a duty now of 265. perhaps instead of some lower !atm, because it has come to that degree of cheapness ; but that degree of cheapness is not cheapness to the consumer of bread, because he is paying as much as when the average was much higher. a: Now a gentleman who has written on this subject says; that in the ginning of 1841, in the month of January, the average arice of wheat was 618. 2d., that in Jan., 1842, the average price was also 615.. 2d. You would, Cher: - hare, . suipose - the price being the same, the averages being the same, the chines being the same, that the' people could obtain their bread at the same price. Is that the ease ? far from it. The price of the best town made flour at Mark ' lane in the first four months cf 1841, was 555. a sack, and in 1842 it was 61s. a sack, making a • differende of no less than'as. in the sack of flour-a-in that sack of flour, from which the bread is admitted to be made, where the averages and the duty which you impose have not altered a single shilling.—(Hear, hear.) Now that is a fault—that is a defect, which you could not get rid of even if you were to change your system of averages twenty times, and to introduce 150 towns. more than are now proposed to be introduced.—(Laugh ter froM the Opposition.) It is a fault by which you are charging the people With improper - duty, by which you arc making the peorlaboaer of this country pay a high pike for his corn, and at the same time are excluding foreign corn from this country—(Hear). Sir, another defect which -is likewise; inherent in this scale, or in any scale, is that you require foreign corn at particular times, when you are unable to obtain it by that exchange of articles which accompanies a regular trade. You have prohibi tion for two or three years. You then find, after har vest, that a large supply will be required. The price rises enormously—as I have shown you the price rises from 225. in the course of two months. You have many millions to pay, and you have no means of meeting the demand by sending out goods. You have not a regular trade. You are obliged to send out part of your 'stock of bullion to pay for that corn. The Bank of England naturally and inevitably contracts its issues ; and that contraction takes place • whilst the whole commercial world is in a state of embarrassment—(Hear, hear)—when; your manuflteturers are unable to give employment tai their artisans, and - when those artisans are pay ing increased prices far the articles of sustenance. There must, no doubt, be' Seasons in which corn will be much higher than. at others. I *admit that ; and I (la not think von can have a regular - low price, or a per fectly steady price, at all. But this Ido say—this Ido essert, that if there are difficulties placed by nature in the way of such a steadine s s o f p r i ce , y ou h ave by your bad legislation aggravated those difficultiez.—(Cheers from the OppoSition.) You have heaped embarrassment upon embarrassment, and piled difficulties upon difficul tieS.—(Hcar, hear.) A steadiness of price -should be the I object of your legislation, and that is totally ineomnati ble with a prohibition at one moment, and a free.atimis sion at another.—(Hear, hear.) Then with respect to frauds ; I wish •to say a few words upon that subject. I cannot think, however, with the Right Hon. Gentle. mass, that while there are now very serious frauds, there will not also be very serious frauds under his scheme ; because, put it as you may, the raising of the • price is in every instance to be accompanied with a lowering of the duty, and to the extent of the reduction you ne cessarily hold out a temptation to fraud. In the year 1830, I think, a Committee of this House sat. and•inves tigated and exposed a great number of frauds that had been committed with respect to the averages, and they advised what they considered a remedy for those frauds. You had, however, in the last year—you had, in the years 1833 and 1839,-frauds existing which were notorious—you had the markets raised 9s. a ,quarter in a single week. and all for the purpose, and with the contrivance, of ob taining a reduction of the duty. That at least is a bad syst e nil _of legislation Which gives encouragement to fraud and gambling speculations, while you ought to. have an honest and wholesome trade. I have stated some of the effects of a sliding scale, bat really if I Were testate all the effects of such a scale, I would havemuehmore to add. But there is another ard most serious effect of the sliding scale which I have touched upon before, namely, that it confines your supplies to countries in the North of Europe.--(Hear, hear.)' You have a deficient harvest, a scarcity in this vountrv,_ and a rise in prices—you then send immediately ordera and ships to Dantzic, and to all the ports which uotntnu nicate with us in the Baltic, for cargoes of wheat, in order 'to take advantage of the low duty. That corn comes in, and you are to remain satisfied with that supply. But, suppose any merchant should - say, " the prices of corn Irom the ikdtic are too high. I know there a market for British goods in -North America —; I know that if their corn could be sent here in exchange for our goods I could dispose of it, end that the transaa tionaVedd be profitablein both ways."—(Hear, hear.) lint if he were to send an order to America, the duty may have risen by the time that the cargo has errived, and then your prohibitions stand in his way ; then your nrices . may have fallen, your duty may be high, and he `will find that for two or three years that cargo is left upon his hands, and he is a loser by the a hole transaction. I^. hat a defect must than be in the law, which does not permit you to go at all to the - most favourable market, v,•Bich does not permit you to go to the United States for your supply?--(llear, hear.) Indeed, with respect to o ur commerce with foreign nations, there seems to be nothing more desirable than that we should endeavour to retain and to improve our trade with America ; and I should say to you, most emphatically, " Preserve the markets of the United States, and of the Brazils." Great quantities of goods manufactured by us have been impo r t e d to these •countries. By adopting common rules., and by adhering to common sense, you would re tain, improve, and enlarge almost indefinitely, those markets.—(Hear, hear, and eheers.) But no, you say " the present laws won't do, we must alter them, and make a new contrivance, by which we may shut the door against the United States, and refuse to admit their produce to taiii markets. I have here a statement which I have taken from Mr. Buckingham's work on America—an important extract—on the extent and means • of production of the State of New -York alone, as retards the growth of wheat, and which I shall take the liberty ' of reading to the House.(The Noble Lord read the ex tract in adow voice ; bitt the substance of the quotation ' was, that this fertile territory extended from the Lakes in the north to Ohio in the south, entracing_an area of 280,000 square miles, being twice as large as the king dom of France, and six times the size of England:` it containe4,l66,ooQ,ooo acres of land, and was irri gated by. or in Inching on the Ohio, the Wisconsin, and the ,Mississippi. Within 21 years its popula tion had increased to the number of 3,000,000, and it was catculated that. by - the year 135 . 0 it would have swelled to-the agregate of 6.000,000). Now, proceeded the Noble Lord, this great population. this vast extent of fertile and arable land is • removed from this country to such a distance,' that on the authority of Mr. Curtis wheat could not be exported from those districts to our pOrts for less than from 435. to 475. a quarter.; so that the American could not be considered a competitor by the English farmer, at least while there would be no just grounds to regard the American farmer as auch, the people of that country would be great con sumers of your manufacturcs.—(ll ear, hear.) Ido be , lieve that 6,000,000 of people inhabiting to fertile a country would naturally prefer the, pursuit of ngricul ture to manufactures.—(Cheers.) I believe that they would be glad to receive your mymfaxtures in exchange for their food and exports—(Cheers)--for however the manufactnrers of the United States may be advancing,. they cannot yet give the balk of the people occupation, and it is probable that they will not do so for a Icing time.—(Hear.) You have it in your parser to establish a commerce of to extensive and useful kind—of giving food to the peo ple and employment to-the poor and in fature years of 'ambling them to avoid that horrible distress which has ,i-evails , d of late—of bestowing comfort on the inhabitants f this kingdom while they consume the products of dis .antcountries.—(Hear, hear.) But, instead of this, you ray '- We have the power of legflation in our hands, and we will use it. to . stop this great trade.— clear, hear.) We have the power in our hands to .;top this accumulation of human comfort and prospz:- itv, and because" we have the pwer, we undertake to place a • barrier against it."—( Loud cheers.) Sir; such would be the effiK:t of your continuance oF the sliding settle.--(Loud cheers.) Your commerce with America in wheat anti wheat-hour will be diminished ; tt will not wholly stopped, 'but it will be greatly diminished 'by the uncertainty of which I speak.— (Cheers.) Is it likely that merchants, with the .ear of that uncertainty before their eyes, will outer into those - speculations in corn ? They considered it a gambling and speculating trade which it u - as better he should not enter into. lam glad to find, nowever, that the Right Hon. Baronet hesitates whether he shall finally adopt putting a new obstacle on the importation of corn, not by a sliding reale, hut by a fixed duty.on the flour, which would naturally come to this country from the - We4cm States by the canals and the St. Lawrence. I trust the Right Hon. Gent., having hesitated at all will give up that part of his echeme; but even Withunt.that obstacle, is it not mon strolls - that, legislating with _ regard to the corn trade, and, indeed, — legiSlatii — u; with respect lo all other articles, yon should say that the inhabitants et' the Black Sea. and America should not be as free to sent hcir products here as to any other part of the world?— ( ;;beers.)"' But the situation of America does not accord .ith the 'objection which the Eight Hon. Bart. has urged P to the narrow circle from which you can expect corn, those countries which hat'e the' same latitude and climate ith our own.—(Hear, hear.) That country is fit for the production of corn, between the 3Gth and 43d de. r,rees of north latitude. The objection was, *that they could not avoid dearness in certain years, either I , y a fixed duty or by any other fixed plan. We haVe a_ right, Sir, to reject the plan at pre siait proposed for. one more. consonant with. the 'maxims .of trade—more consonant with the de ductions of science —and, - above all, more conso limit with the petitions of our suffering population. -- (Loud cheers.) We have a right to co this, and ;he produce of the world will thus . be opened to us, and we need not fear either such frequent occurrence of periods of scarcity or the interruptions of trade, or making the dependence of this coun try on 'others an object of an xie ty.—(Hear, • hear.) If with - with the universality of our commerce, vice have to protect our national interests, our formi dable navy—and our navy will always be formidable— the independence of our country we need not entertain the slightest apprehension.—(Cheers.) Opposed then, as I tan, Sir, to the plan of a s lidi ng sca l e, an d t hi n ki ng that any plan founded on that basis ought to - be re iected, I shall, if that pl an b e a l so presented, 't.ai ready to discuss the subject with those who oppose the laying on of any duty at all. I think that a moderate fixed duty might be proposed with propriety; but what I roros ,- in the present instance, is the rejection of the plan proposed by her Majesty's Ministers.—(llear, hear.) If it shou:d be found that there are no ex clusive burdens oiragriculturc,-(Hear)—l should then say, make such a provision of a duty, as shall prevent a sodden change, and pre% ent the falling into distress of ,c'reat masses of agricultural labour. But if' there tumid be, as 1 .believe there - are, peculiar burdens agriculture, then impose a duty as moderate as you possibly can, in consideration of those burdens. Do not Tot us raise it- a single shilling—not a single farthing shove what is absolutely necessary. If there is, us the liightlion. gentleman states that there is, an advantage is submitting to restrictions for the sake' of the general interest, this argument, to be unconquerable, must be- si.ippiirted by. good .and sensible reasons. < Hear, bear.) Now, Sir, for a fixed duty we have, for a sliding-seale• it is not possible to have, such reasons. it Must•be-,said in favour of a fixed duty that it has leen reeminnended at, different times by persons of great irathority.—(Hear, hear.) The first recommendation is from Mr. Malthus, who in 1815 proposed, after a certain time that the duty should become fixed t. 10s. His proposal for a duty ,on foreign corn was !l at it should be first 20s. and fall. Is.,' year by year, !ill it came to 10s., where it should remain. Mr. Maculloch, another advocate for a fixed duty, stated teat, instead of the burdens of agriculture being equi- . alent to a fixed duty of 10s., that a duty of would be a full 'protection.--(Hear.) The Committee cf 1821, which comprised many persons eminent in agri cultere, among others, the Hon. Gentleman the Pay master of the Forces, Sir T. Gooche, and many persons cf all classes and all opinions, also recommended a fixed duty:, Sir ROBERT PEEL expressed his dissent. Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Does the Right Honour eble Gimtleman dispute , that ? The Report begins by expressing a- doubt whether there can be any solid foundation for agricultural prosperity except by a hstaining as far as possible from legislative interference with agriculture, either by protection or prohibition of importation.—(Loud cheers.) The report then goes on to state.', that agriculture' had flourished most when a fi4e importation of corn had been allowed.—(The Noble Lord proceeded to read various extraet&from the Report et' the ..Committee„ alluded t 0..;. froth.which it appeared that the Committee recommended a modification of the 1.7: isting law, which produced much inconvenience from t!!e sudden manner in which the ports were opened under iei enactments, and the consequent sudden influx of corn into the market, and suggested a remedy that, whenever 1 the ports 'were 'open; corn should be admitted at a fixed i (' qty. 'The reading of this extract was_ followed by loud c!lecring and counter cheerint-.) Permit me to observe, 1 that although the Conimittee recommends a fixed duty, 11 cannot but think that the person who drew up the ihaport, and who so well explained and understood the principles of free trade, and so anxiously iilvised FLU adoption of those principles, must liave, when he recommended it, considered the a !option of a fixed duty as a temporary measure, as the lest probably which he could obtain at the time—(Hear, lwar)—but must have looked forward to the ultimate adoption of the great principle which he had so di s ti nc tl y laid down 'in the commencement of the Report, and have considered that the time would at length arrive when all protection r and all prohibition should cease.—(Cheers.) Mr. Huslusson was a party to the Bill.of 1827. lie was likewise a party to the Bill of 1828 ; but in 1830, in the last speech which he ever made on the subject in this Ilouse, he stated, that he doubted whether it could be pos sible, with our present system of taxation, to keep up our present system of Corn-laws.—(Loud cheers.) Mr. tlaskisson was a man who thoroughly . understood 11: e principles of trade. He always advocated the principlcs'of free trade, aril always endeavoured to carry them out, as far as he thought he prudently could do so. One of the objections to a plan of a fixed duty is, tl'at it would in times, of scarcity prevent an adequate cl!pply from coming into the market. When I I!: id the honour to propose a , plan for a ti eed duty to the House, I stated my belief that the imposition of a fixed duty would in a great measure ll:event the Ocarrence of scarcity by securing a constant and regular supply; but, at the same time, I stated there night be various methods of preventing a fixed duty ..':ling in such a manner in times of scarcity, and one o:' the remedies was to give to the Government the t over of opening the ports under certain circumstances. i think that May be better than the view taken by the 1 Cemmittee of 1821. It may, psrhaps, be better that at a certain point,l3s. or 745., there should be no duty.— (' 3 rent cheering from the Ministerial side of the House.) 1 say that is matt:-.r for consideration. I proposed before that in case of scarcity there should :be a discretionary power allowed to the Crown, and I now say, as an alte rna tive, that it should be considered whether 1 i a the case of high prices, the duty should not cease.--a Gicar, hear.), The Right Hon. Gentleman stated the ether. might, that it would be necessary for the per i e il mh d enar b pe e tkheeprte particularlyup ,would. —( L up.—(Loud l u bme d z i , c s h tub e ct e th r t s.) But ~,,,,,, of the Tithe Commutation Act, that the system -,;; ; :: 1 1 , a i n t v e c r . l n i a e r :s 3 t % a , e t s r e l e:llee from foreign countries, that then the L ai n fb g u is d' h ilt : !rion!turists would be 'ruined by the competition ; and be stated if you have corn very dear, then the lteepin , .; 10' Of a fix , (1 duty would be at i l ei evil and sea:,_gt(ice:lenerese). "lthm respect to the tarsier of these obj ec ti ons, I think to t a k e any t' , e tii, abundant protectiontothylteett'ir. I riner f is the you choose -ear since 1831, you will find that there has never 'fi.cn a less price than 365., and with the cost of freight ft:ICI importation, at the most moderate statement, that . eas the lowest price at which the English farmer .seld in 1831. Then with respect to dear years, lam icily, .'anti always e a,:i ready to say, although I think ;;r; to advtiutage r.. 01:.: ho given by it to the foreign merchant titan to the , :l.: , :!ish agricuiturist — yet we must consider the impression made on the public mind . when corn was high, and must relax the hity either .by the ' authority of the Executive i ‘l' Parliament.' I originally . proposed to be (l am by the E xecut i ve . That which is really iF,lportant is, that you. should . have constant trade, ,:. on should never have (hides that would shut out corn; if you must haven duty let it be as easy as possible-. It might produce some evils, but there is no evil like that which is attached to the plan proposed be- the Government. There is anether eat of the se h ject upon which I have not said a word, and which the Right Honourable Gentleman dismissed at the commencement of th e a dd ress t o th e mean.the distress that prevails in the country. That that distress exists to a great extent—that it exists in Leeds,•ll.lanchester, a great part of the cotton district, and part of Scotland; is now.hy no person denied. It was stated in the strongest terms by the Ron. Gentleman whO seconded' the' Address (Mr.' Beckett). - The Right lion. Baronet states that he does not propose his present Corn Bill as any remedy for that distress—(Hear, hear) dues he think the Corn-laws, as they at present ex ist, are at all answerable for that distress. Now, Sir, I should not say they were the. cause of the whole of this distrk , ss, but they tend very considerably to aggravate it ; and I think that a great relaxatiJ.Q of your :Corn laws would tend greatly, though not, perhaps, im merliately, to mitigate' that distress,—(Hear, hear.) What is it has heel said by persons conversant with the eoWn trade in MancheAer, in a circular svhiah they. addressed to the whole: ale houses in London,—that while the sale of cotton exported, profitably or not, has increased during the last - year, the sale of these goods for domestic us shadhad decreased at the rate of 3,000 bales per week. They therefore conclude—and the con clusion-is a na tural use, and borne out by all the other evidence on the subject—that the 'Avant of means in the labouring clas.fts to purchase clothing and other articlesas well as food,-has been the cause of the- di minished consumptumHthat a much greater part of the dainings . ..6= . the labonring elas,;es that' hitherto have the 'last two or three pan gone to the per aeso o f bread. Nov:, this statement is supported by all those who have communicated with the labouring p ort i ons of the community, and by • their c:.:11 - statements. in variens p ar t s o f the trz. pre I mys,lf .i,-uted a petition • to-night, which • . stated thai the petitioners, -though sometimes able to procure some braail, were 'unable, to consawe sugar at ail ; and, with respect .to - other articles, that the con satapt ion of . them was - taxitit;y diminished. Well, then, if you had a. free admission of foreign core, one of the cansequen,ics would be that the nanierons •classes bie to purchase food at a' Cheaper rate would be enabled to consume Manufactures ; and. an other consequence wonld be that the manuLeturers would find- a better market for their goods, an 1 that they would send these ;cols. in excham.la: for the goods snt to this country. The; (iron., w*ilst 1 do not say that the whole of the distress is caused by the Ct;rn-laws, or woalil.be totally removed by t h e re p ea l o f those laws, Ido say that they tend to age-ravate the distress, and that yen would initio•ate that distress hy a relaxation of those laws.—(lleer, and cheers.) The Right lion. Gentleman corpses us to be in ti posi in similar to • what has occurred at other times in mantrfacturiar , districts • when dikress was, as he thinks, occaiionetr partly -by over-produ.ction, and partly by other causes: The Right Hon. Gentle man stir:l6les • that' over-production, the operation of joint-stock banks, ai•d some other causes, contributed in differtiat dcwecs, and that all the remedy is in the reduction of the excess, and a return to the former state of things, and the former amount of pro duction. Now that is not- the view which I take of the present state of things. Although 4 may be that the production of goals, has been somewhat in excess, yet if that had been the cause of the distress, the di ;tress would have passed an ay, and the evil would have cured itself.—Hear, hear.) The Right lion. Baronet thinks that part of the evil is in the excessive building of houses in . the manufacturing towns, and the conse quent increase of the population ; and that another Fart is in the improvement of machinery. Sir, I cannot say whether the first may be in sonic part a cause (it dis tress ;. but t say that with regard-to machinery, the whole history of our manufactures directly contradicts 1115 opinion. —(Hear.) Wherever improvements have taken place in machinery, and Means have been formed of lessening the amount of - human labour necessary to produce an article, new markets have been created or in—ased—(Hear, hear)—and thus the whole number of persons employed has been increased at the same time and not diminished.—.- (Hear, hear.) And what is the case of those great towns, such as Manchester, Leeds, Mac, clesfield, and Brmingham -?—(ll!.‘ar, hear.) They have increased year after year, as the ingenuity of our countrymen from time to time adds improvement to machiuery.—(l-I , r-ar, hear, hear.) If the im provement of machinery decreased. employment, the case would have been the other way, and population would have decreased in those towns.—(Hear, hear.) Sir R. PEEL made seine observations, which were not heard in the gallery. ' Lord JOHN RUSSELL—Sir, I certainly did think the Right Hon. Baronet gave in, in soma degree, to the opinien that machinery decreases employment. It is an opinion which has been stated by several who sapport his 1 iews of this, question, and I think it is very dangerous.—(Loud cries of "Hear, hear.") I thought that. he mentioned the improvement of machinery as amongst the cau,ies of tile distress. Bat I believe that machinery would korease still more, and go on increasing, if you did but en courage freedom instead of imposing new restrictions. A erect portion of the pedple think that some relief may ho ob'ained by repealing those laws. If you cannot re pcal them totally, as the great majority of the petitioners to this }toile° against the Corn-livers demand, I do advise you to make some material advance—(Hear, hear)—and show, that you are willing to meet their wishes, as far as is consistent with other interests.—(Llear, hear.) I advise you to make Some in,!torial advance that will *how you have sympathy 0 i tit the sufferings of the .people.—(Hear, hear.) But the prent proposition does nothing. It merely rt:noves, us is :aid, nominal high duties, which can ir 4 ver be levied, and only 'ex c it e U n n ecess a r y odium., ' Si:, I agree to that,dexription, I think it is made appli • cable to the int2; , tire of the Government. I agree, Sir, that it is perfectly , impossible to hope that any good, or that • ally alleviation i'.ilatever of the general distress which prevails in the country can arise from that measure, ' which is only made to look a little.better than the old in ~ i sure—(Cheers)--a. measure, which perpetuates the vsconts principles already existing—forbids any improve ment—encourages speculation —and prevents your com merce with the north of Europe —the Black Sea and . the United States. Such a e measure, Sir, will do no dal-T. t o es li eee the distress of thi s country .—(H ear. ) wed I' .ay that that description is strictly applicable to tne measure proposed by the Government. Whatever you • i do, I advise you not to agree to such a measure as that. If you think that the Corn-laws are founded on sound principles—that they tend to promote the interests of the country, do .not mind the sinister evils they may cause; but if you do make a change, do so for some pur ,poze; do net innovate without you innovate for some good,- I —(Cheer.) - Lord Bacon said that the froward retention or. custom was seinetimes as bad as innovation—but Lord Bacon never dreained that there might be a measure of this. kind proposed—a measure w Nell would have ail the evils of " froward.retentiOn of custom," and yet contain within it all the aniechiefs or evils of innovation.— (Hear, hear.) A measure,Which does not improve your commerce ; and, therefore, cannot alleviate the existing state of distress—a measure which confines your trade, and which was proposed by the Government., having first excited hopes for a long period lopes which when apparently on the point of being attained, a • measure is proposed in reality e t until ug upon the very same principles; and producing similar results as those of the pre sent law.—([fear, hear.) Such a measure,. Sir, I consider is that now proposed. J cannot think you will legislate on . this question to any purpose, unless you in the first place reject the measure now pro posed.—(Hear, hear, and loud cheers.) If you reject that, you may hereafter consider to what extent you may set free your trade in matters of food, you may hereafter consider how far you will concede to the wishes of the people—it will be open to you to take every view that may be proposed to you to consider. You may consider the agricultural interests and the quantity of land brought into cultivation. You may also con sidertave h im er p e o. , , S it i i r ( , ni th o a f t a if d t ut h 3 eLe k b: o in an,l - h o a d t iu o m diu in m advocatin g not • wish in the slightest degree to shrink.—(Hear, hear.) If you adopt the system now proposed, though I do not believe that in the present civilised state of the people of England, you will have such tumults and outrages as have taken place in former centuries, yet I apprehend that you will produce growing d'scentent in the publi c m i n d. ' Act, therefore, so that it shall be said that you haVe legislated on well considered . views, and for the benefit of the whole community. But I desire now to impress the fact upon you, that all commercial men and an in different spectators have unanimously condemned the sli!ling-seale as the worst basis of legislation with respect to provisions, and that it is perfectly well known to the community at large that this principle has been thus generally condemned. ;How can you be lieve that the public eau be persuaded a ft er suc h denunciations ,that the proprietors of l an d a l one can take impartial views on .this• subject ; that they who are chiefly .interested should, contrary to the experience of alt mankind, take clear and disin terested view',; on the present occasion ?—(Hear, hear.) The people will not so reason. They will, I appre heed, attribute, however unjustly, that yon have been binesed in faVour of those interests wit h which ' y ou are connected, a n d i n f avour of a wine members of me the Government are said to have in creased their incom e s o f late.--( system under which Laughter and Hear.") Anything would b e b e tt er than legislation of this hind. Be it error, if you will enact laws which may savour of the ignorance of the 15th and 15th c enturies on matte rs of trade, you may sustain the odium. said in eo n - Sequence. But if you allow it to be sal( that the Par lieusent of this country—them the House of Com mons , have decided th e qtiestion in which th e food of the wh o l e community is involved on a partial ba sis, and to maintai n y our. own ad, antages, it will be impossible but that the Legislature shall suffin. in the estimation of their coun b trv.—(Cheers.) S u ch, Si r , being the views I take in th present crisis, I only hope that you may come to that decision on this nuestion which will show that aull c e ° o7s r i c d 'e e — re ( d C , h y e o e u rs. !‘ -- iil cl intentions with respect ' vee have large. and enlightene I to the future state of trade ricuiturah. as well as all th :t you have considered ag other interests, and that having p ee s a litw which, w h e i l it is passed, men will look on as a blessing to the country, Ito-4 will thank y ou w i t h • gratitud e an d f ervour i n their heartsas wise, and bene- . Seat can legislate thus, ticent legislaters.—(Cheers.) 'That such may be Your unless you proceed upon princi leave to move " That this dectsion I most cordially wish, but I cannot think that o e f rn house, considering the evils 211::: present etre C which have been Caused by litsdeanytinrieglirltt.liiliertehieitrferi(zi)iii.i,,tlbwosge submitted toy•ou onWed- Government, which is of the grad nated or sliding see s. ) , is not prepared to adopt shhearvs,i\ain:cesstyp,escially by the fluctuations founded upon the . same principlcs • and ie likely to be attended by similar results." Mr. GLADSTONE said, whilst he endeavoured, with the profoundest respect for time talents and situation of '' - ‘ ,1, :0 Lord, to discharge his duty, by following • tl r , • ~ ~ • • ; - , ~ , he siaiL .d zi.:14•:, , • • it his first effort to disembarrass time question of all 1 that did not belong to • the immediate issue before the House, 'and confine attention to the real matter in - a li: , pute between the Government and the Noble Lord. The NOW Lord had concluded his speech by drawing - disinal representations of. .the,: : impressions which refight be entertained abroad in ease the House should Consent to the measure proposed by her Majesty's Government; and . he (Mr. Gladstone), concluded that the foundation of those, representa tions was the feeling which had been so strongly mani fested in various parts-of the country with reference to the present Corn-laws. But the Noble Lord, as the advo cate ()la fixed duty on corn, had no right to take advan tage of that feeling for the - purpose of - drawing those representaCons, -or to assume that in case he should succeed in inducing the House to reject that men stfre, the sentiments to which he had ,referred would be gratified, or the agitations which existed would he al. layed.--(Hear, hear.) --The Noble Lord had not scru pled to come . forward as a protector of agriculture. - The Noble 'Lord declared that, in his opinion, it was impassible at the present moment to enact a free trade hi corn.-(Hear,) The Noble Lord had given them two greunds for that opinion ; (tad it seemed to him (Mr. Gladstone) that. if he . acted consistently with those grounds he ought to. acct pt the - measure which had been ten- . derad by her 2,lajesty's Guyernment.—(lronical cries oi " Hear-- itear- 4 '-froert+e•Orryasition ) The Nolde Lord &ID, and he differed in that respect from his supporters, that there were special reasons for liroteetiog the agriculture of th;s country, and 'in consequence of vt'hielia certain amount of taxation • 'ought to be imposed upon the importation,. of the. food of the people. BLit the Lord did not stop there ; he I stated another distinct, and in his (He Glad,tone's) opi nem, must valid ground for the imposition of a duty upon f reign corn. The Noble Lord said; for a series cf years— he might have seed fur many centuries—the Legislature inainteind a system, dittsring indeed in its form, but still a se etein of rt strietions upon the importationof foreien , corn. On the faith of these restrictions enormous capitalsl had 'been 'nye-tett . ; through those investments millions of the population were ~eireployed, and the Noble Lord justly field that the censequenees of disturbing those capitals, of creating au 'agricultural panic, of displacing vast. quantities of agricultural labour, o ould be so disastrous. to the . country that it - ought - not to be entertained for a moment. Therefore; when the Nobly Lord expressed himself so obnoxioas to the outcry and clamour of those who con chin :d any-restrictions on importation or on trade, and Who advocated the universal and inalienable .rie• b ht of man—(Cheers)—to interchange the produce of his hibotir, the Noble Lord was amenable to the censures of many of those to whom he looked for support on his motion that night—the cen surer of those who declared that corn and provision laws • should be abolished, and that the entire and inalienable right of Man—the right freely-to exchange the produce of his labour for food with other countries—should be recognized, without imposing protection on those articles intended by divine Providence as benefits_ to man. The real question was, not which side of the House en- ' • listed in support of this argument' the greatest array • of prejudice and . paSeion. If that were the (pee- ' lion, there was prejudice enough, and there was passion enough, in support .the, appeal which had been made. But the question was looking con stitutionally to the representation of the people— looking to the . course of legislation. always pursued—looking to the burthens,• as the Noble Lord affirmed, and affirm*id justly, laid upon agriculture —.whether, baking to all th,sacircamstances of the case they should reject or adopt such a scale of duties as was required in the - present state. of affairs. There was a ground upon which the Noble Lord had said pro teetion should be given to agriculture in order to make this country entirely independent of foreign supply. He (:',lr. e Gladstone). was going to discuss that ground at that moment, because he agreed with the principle laid dome by the Noble Lord, but he did not think that, under these circumstance, the Noble Lord could refuse to accept the. proposal of his Right Honourable Friend. The' Noble Lord had quoted the opinion of a high authority, he meant Mr. lauskissen. Mr. Huskisson, in 1815 e had.. supported the proposition now submitted, that this country ihould be made inde pendent of foreign supplies. _lic e (Mr. G.) knew that subsequently Mr. IL had occasion to modify that opinion; but seven years after having written his (Mr. H.'s) report, when he • was challenged on the ques tion, he gave his decided opinion that domestic agricul ture !should be rendered'independent of foreign supply. He should contend, iii, L' i l•iat . he 'had to submit to - the House, that the eVils4ser 'bed to the existing Corn-laws only existed in a Snpl t t 'Agee, and were full of gross exageration. He should fetrther contend, with refer anee to the Noble. -Loas motion, not only that those evils were exageerated, but that he was not justified in -saying - that the iileaitir3 now proposed was founded on the same principle as the present Corn-laws ; he (Mr. Gladstone) admitted that it depended in some degree on the sense in which the word, principle, was understood, and he was .sorry .that. there was no word which they. thoulit tiSo with inure caution alga that of principle. If they meant the principle of a gra duated scale, in opposition to a fixed duty, then he granted them, the present plate was founded on the sauce principle as the existing Corn-laws. But if they meant that the present plah Was founded on the eyetem of ereat protection to the agriculturist, and with the inten tion of keeping corn at a high price, that he would not admit.—(Haar, hear.) He should also contend that the advantages a.eribed to - a fixed duty on corn— whieh it Was all very- well to laud whilst it • was in the distance, when it never ha-1 been tried, and they were suffering molder present distreseasewere as grossly exaggerated as the defects attributed to the worltifig of a graduated scale--(Hear, hear)—and that the objections to a fixed duty which - attached to it on its own merits, were of an insuperable nature—(Hear, hear). — He thought the, Noble Lord'must see, and that every man who hard applied his mind to the consideration of the subject must see, that the question was beset .with difficulties, and that, under present circumstances, whether they adopted a graduated scale, or whether they adopted a fixed duty, or a system of free trade altogether, various objections might be urged against all. He, on the other hand, was ready to admit that the present scale had not operated in the favourable wayawhichAmd heal anticipated by the framers of that scale. But they had to look at charges made against the present plan ; a notion had gone - abroad, and had beeenle pOptilar titkidti, that the present horn-jaws were the cause of the distress existing in the countrye, It was strange to see how men of sense, and of searching minds ; appeared to be possessed by a,kind .of mania in discussing theyreSetit COrti.laws, ' that the evils which were ownig neither to that Ely other system:of law, but to those dispositions which pro duce plenty or scarcity .of corn, shoild attribute them to the action of the. Corn-laws.—(Hear, hear.) He referred particularly to the writings of Mr, Wilson, a gentleman whom he eould ndt name express ing his admire/Imi al' Lie •tnielith, sbe' or the value or the information he had thrown .upon the sub ject by his researches. But a man would hardly believe without reading his works—and he hoped he had read them fairly—that such opinions woald hare been advanced by t't gentlainate O t r such iatelliedeta Mr. Wilton. nothing in the uctuations, of prices and of supply, but the. operation of the Corn-laws. He has said that in the years 1833, .1834, 1835, 1836, and 1837 this country had immense supplies of corn at eyeee&l -ingly low prices. And •why Watt that ? TIW pieide of wheat Mr. Wilsoit contended, ought from its own nature to be the steadiest thing in the world: But the immensely low prices of those . years arose kin the fade, • that the Corn-laws had giva. exaggerated hopes to the - farmer.—(Hear, hear.) Jut was there any man who could believe that the tilltefeiict in prices batsacett 1833 and 1836, and 1839 and 1840, was ascribable to the ,operation of the Corn-laws, and not to the operation of the seasons ? • In 1839 and 1840, the pficea beihnib ea ceedingly high, and the Ctte.s of that alai, was the opera tion of tilt Corn-laws. The farmers had got so sick of the Corn-laws in the cheap years from 1833 to 1836, that they restricted the breadth of land brought under wheat to such an extent as to CRIIB9 the &reface of supply between the - cheap years and the dear years.—(llear, hear.) Now he would ask whether there was any gentleman in the House pre pared to go the length, and virtually to defend the prin ciple, that the variety of Seasons has nothing to do with the amount of wheat brought to market ?' He confessed that if he was to hear attah aft Opinion- adVailded he would despair even more than he then did of it satisfac tory., and amicable adjustment of the tplestion. The Noble Lord had referred to the tepfeseiltatithia that had been made by his (Mr. Gladstone's) Right Hon. Friend, upon the subject of the existing distress. Now his Right lion. Friend did not attribute the distress to the introduction of machinery, which must ultimately in crease the conilorts of man, but he stated that the results of improvements in. machinery must have thrown many hands for a time out of employment, • lie (Mr. ladstone) did not think it could be denied that there had been an over-production of late years, and that that over-produc tion had produced that great distress amongst setne claSses. There were other causes which he might efuttnerate, such as the great amount of capital absorbed in other modes, ,but the House would probably conceive that Viable ; the unusual,the extreme case of the occurrence of four bad hare yests in succession, was sufficient, which was not owing to the Corn-laws. Yet when they heard of the hh price of wheat they never heard their bad harvests noticed. He could not conceive that any man could apply with temper to the consideration of this subject, and not believe but that under any conceivable syStem it was likely that more than four bad harvests might occur successively, and in which the people might not have • to pay high ; very high prices for their food. But it was a charge made against the present Corn-laws, that they aggro • voted the evils of the, deficiencies in the supply,—(clear, hear.) He did not defend them—as Corn- laws, he did not defend them—but was it true that they aggravated the natural evils of a deficient supply ? As far as he could judge from an examination of the circumstance:, he could not bring .his . mind to that conclusion. In the last fourteen . years the fluctuations of the price of wheat had amounted to 79 per cent., but the fluctuation in the price of cotton, an-article in which trade was perfectly free, but subject to fluctuation, amounted to 85 per cent. ;. and he quoted the-opinion of Mr. H mskisson on the Committee of 1821. stating that wheat was an article in which the greatest fluctuations were always to be expected.. He would not compare the prices of the hoine market with the p r i ces o f the foreign. market, because they • replied to that that the foreign market was. unnaturally sti mulated by the ' . British demand in times of scarcity, and unnaturally depressed when that demand was withdrawn ; yet the Corn-laws were made :. chargeable with these fluctuations.—(Hear.) In defence or palliation of the existing Corn-laws it was fair he should refer to former Corn-laws at 'former pe rieds.—(Hear, hear.) If he did so the fluctuation would (oned very coueiderahle. The ilieht iron. ti•;elitletran weat into 4 ztat:2i n Ak ti g,li ggres showing- that the fluctuation in th e • price of corn under former Corn- laws was ..ass considerable as under the present. The Right Hon. Gentleman- then referred to the state- • ment made by Sir R. Peel as to the price of rye in Prussia. It was an article which it was very fair to take to compare with the price of wheat in this country-, because it made the principal part of the food of the people of that Cotintey; and if the fluctuation in the price of rye in Prussia was found to be as great as that of corn in this country, it would, he considered, he a testimony . . •in favour of the present Corn-laws. The Right Hon. Gentleman then quoted from the " Prussian States Gazette " a statement of the variation in the price of rye in Prussia, which showed that the fluctuation in the price of that article was greater' than the fluctuation in the price of wheat in England during _corresponding periods. There was another case of the same kind, but he thought those figures showed the fluctuations of price which had been ex perieneed were not attrisutable to the law under which they lived, but were to be ascribed to the nature of the commodity, and the'difficulty of adjusting the demand to the supply. It was argued that one effect of the present Corn-law was to give to the foreigner too high a price fur his corn ; and it had been stated by Mr. Meeker in the Times that the position of Eng lon I in asking for foreign corn was like a party at an auction who, after bidding a'l his competitors out of the field- went on • against himself; that was, they were bidding alirge premium to foreign holders. It was admitted with reference to any stock of corn they had in foreign ports, tint it was an evil there was no denying, but then it was said the alteration of the scale encou raged parties to hold till the prices rose. If the prices were fir: red up to 735., at lea't this. must be allowed, that there was a great abundance brought into the country. It had been customary to refer to the last samtreT to show the operation of the Corn.laws, but the question was, whether under another s)stem, whether under a system of fixed duty, the matter would be better.-( Hear.) L-t them suppo - e that instead of the existing law they had the es. duty of the Noble Lord; was it cestain that. in that case the price of corn would be as moderate as it now was , or as it• Was since the middle of Se p tember 'hat, or as it is likely to he for the next four months ? lie could early conceive that a cer tain portion of corn at , a, lower duty would have been brought ia at an earlier period.-(Hear, hear, from The Opposition Beeches.) :e.ut the great bulk of the corn was brought in on the spur of the moment, and by reason of the high prices. Without the high prices they had no reason to sty that the corn would have. come in. Even with a fixed duty the markets would continue in a feverish state. The fact was, that instead of the pressure coming on in the summer months, as it had, it would. have occurred in winter, when employment was. diminished, arid the wants of the people greater. • •The opinions promul gated by the Noble Lord this evening, did not altogether cor-, respoed with certain opinions ascribed to him when his expe rience was less mature. In his ( Mr. Gladstone's) opinion,. the experience acttuirM by the Noble Lord within the last few years, had a material effect in approximating has ideas to those of the Hon. Members orrhis (Mr. G.'s) side of the House.: The Noble. Lord seemed to be almost a convert to the doctrine of a mini mum duty. The Noble Lord said, Collect your averages as you will, they will vet lead to fraud. For the sake of a mini mum duty, the Noble Lord was content to persevere in the system of averages, although he declared it would be accessary to fraud. Let them take the doctrine of the Noble Lord as he had announced it to-night, and compare it with the graduated scale of his Right Honourable Friend. The Noble Lord said es. or thereabouts; Es. .up to the point of 735. or 745., and a tall at that point to a Is. duty.-( Hear, hear.) H s itight - lion. Friend said a descent, shilling by sh:lling, from 565. when it: was 16$. ; at 665. it became 65., and afurther descent, shilliug by shilling, at 735., where he and the N.-be Lord at length coincided. When the price was at 645., there again his Right lion. Friend and the. Noble Lunt were what they said of great planets-they were in con junction.-(Laughter.) .Bert now, what was the operation upon the mind of the imposter of foreign corn of the two schemes? 'What was the temptation to work the avereee ? What was the comparative temptation to commit fraud miler the two systerns?-•(" Hear," from the Ministerial benches.) Under the scheme proposed by his Right Hon. Friend, when the price was at 615., he knew that he had no chance of get tint down to the minimum duty without standing for a rise of Brice. -The importer, at Es., knew that he had no chance whatever till he t aised the price up to 735. ; and he kneWthat when he worked it up to that he would get in his corn at a duty of one s shilling only ; when there was a small supply it •was certain that the price must go up to 735. The Noble Lord said--and certainly it was one of the most se rious objections against the working of the present law was, that it excluded the more distant, countries, as the United States. But he belieted there was a misapprehensi , ,n in some minds with respect to the United States. The time of transit of corn from Philadelphia or New York to Liverpool was not so tedious as was supposed. He was informed that it was of feated in six weeks.-(Hear, hear.) He could only say that was the information he had received from a gentleman of Liverpool, who was an enemy to the sli :in'-seale. Then what was the case of America? When the price rose to 735. and the duty fell to Is , those who had corn in bond, and those who had it on handein neighbouring countries could avail themselves of the low duty ; but the American would not have ach ince, for before his corn could arrive here the duty would have leaped up.-(Cries of " Hear, hear.") Now, in fact, the proposition, even, the Noble Lord would keep up, that which was the greatest objection to the existing law. But let them examine the scale proposed by his Right [lon. Fiend with America. Suppose a fall of five or six shillings to take place after corn had reached the highest pint, and that was as great a fall as could rationally be expected, the duty in the proposed scale would be but pis. instead of tis., as pro posed by the Noble Lord opposite.-( Hear, hear.) The great objection to the existing system, as regarded America, was the enormous rapidity of the reduction. This was a posser: . ul objection to the continuance of the present laws, and e reason why they should adopt any practical measure for the ainclidreent of these laws ; tut how did the objection apply to the measure of his Right Honourable Friend? Under the proposed scale the difference would never amount to a Irohibitory duty-all the. difference, the utmost fall in the average would be 6s. or 7s. The effect of that would be to bring the prices back to about 665.; and the duty 61., the difference of du y on which the importer would have to calcu late would be 5s , instead of 19s. tad, or 20s. Bd., or whatever it might be at present. That difference, instead of being one that would operate to prevent the undertakings of corn aiercial enterprise, was one which might enter into the reasonable cal culation of the importer, and was perfectly •compatible with steadiness of mercantile transactions. The Noble Lord, in one portion of his seeeeh, had called the proposed plan of his Right Hon. Friend, in reference - to its purposes of efficiency, " Doing nothing." • NoW, he could not tee that it was so much more blameable to propose a measure doing nothing, and a measure for doing iomethlng - , which there was. no 'hope of carrying.-: (Loud cheers from the Ministerial benches.) But let them see if thif could be proved.. - Let them see whether the .absolute evidence of experience gave them reasonable grounds fur hope under ordinary circumstances. The scale proposed by his Right Hon. Friend will have a different operation while wheat was high, while markets • were rising, the weather threatening, and circumstances critical-whether there was a rational hope that the plan would have a different operation than the operation of the present laws. He would not speculate that such would be the case. lie wished to lay as little as possible of his own spe culation before the House, but he should try, if possible, to state what had occurred from speculative evidence. They were not altogether without light on this subject. Wheat was not the only kind of grain that was placed under the operation of the scale. The operation of the scale had indeed been dif ferent as to other kinds of grain from the one proposed by his Right Honourable Friend. The descent was more enneiderable in the present scale. (Hear, - heur.) It lead been rather prematurely assumed that the new was almost identical With the old.. Now, under the present scale, when the price was 665., the holder would be disposed to wait his chance of it reaching 735., so that bet Ween the fall of the ditty and the price, he would have a chance of gaining 38s. Bd. a quarter I but, under the new scale, when the price was Ws., the holier; calcitlating, on the uncertainty of its reaching 735., might yet giliti 130, in price, and I ls. in duty,. a lac ze sum truly e but there would be.filany chances against it. The Noble • Lord again was wrong in assuming that a bonus of 1 ls. would have the same effect as a, bonus of ss. 8:1. Now, when the price was 665.. the holder, by waiting until it rose to 735., gOin 7s, in price, and 193. 81 in duty making glint Lily, tin enormous bonus; but under the proposal of his Right Honourable Friend, the price being 665. and the duty 65., there would be less temptation to speculate in the t ise to 735. ; and seeing that when under the old 19s. Bd. Might be , gained, while the new offered but ss. ; both could not be said to be the tame. What was there then in the plan of his Right Hon. Friend which the Noble Lord could object to. The Noble .Lord had stated that the plan of his Right Han. r trilafid #onld make uo alterati on * p rices, d iff eren t from that of the old 1./Wi, }, 4 pin Gladstone) a w n o d ul L d a s y h , o e w mi b n y enteo evidence n_ e • m a er different ,th ants effect. had onclents abroad for the Governitintj in their commercial traosactietti , and he wou l d svr : t i t i e e n s4r to l' ;the 4i n c l / 4 g 4 tete feast an eat raft from the Circular. The Hon. Gentleman then read ail &area front a eirettler of Messrs. Kingston Lay, which stated that it their opiieloti it would be safe to ptirchas: corn from this country when the duty Wei' likely to be 14s, or 1ta:: per quarter. The Noble Lord had called that tipfehibit4ig duty, and that corn would never be imported at that dint,- Yes, the Noble Lord said that 20t. was a prohibiting duty, and Cdr gelWal shillings below that sum. Now this circular had come into hie (Mr. Gladstone's) hands; and he had shown that one of the first houses in the trade had reeummereled it as safe to purchase corn for this country when the duty vtes likely to h 6 14e. or 1,85.-4 Cheers.) The Hon. Gentleman contitlited is extract from the ehote Circular, which again recommended that corn should be purchased wheii it could bit entered for home consumption at 14s. to 18s. duty, as under the pf oposed law Child not held out any inducement for corn-dealers to hold backs As had hitherto been the case. The corn-dealer would therefore sell their ewer eat ship. Stich 'was the opinion ex- Pressed b those gehtlerrien Open the plan of the Right Hon. Gentleman. He was quite sure they werttld not have .made that recommendation under the other platl. net he (Mr. Gladstone ) proposed to take the rates of duty which hail Veen taken under the existing law, vicious as it. was in some parts. He should take the rates of duty on every species of corn, ex cept white it, In order to enable the House to judge whether the proposed plan was likely td rteet the evils complained. Now, the average rate of duty from July, 1821, to December, 1811, had been sa. 7d. If it had been paid in a sum proportionate to its value, then, instead of being 53. 7d., it would have Leen goinething less than 3s. Now, mark the argument of tile Noble Lord, who kid filet the alteration would d o no thing to improve the present system-that Corn would be held back, When it ithuld be -a relief to the market-that it would not be admitted till I ' f' atthe pr Lee eehighest, and then the Market Would be glutted-and whether they had the old sliding stale; or the one proposed, was of very trifling moment. If 1,116 operatiOn of the beiley scale had been analogous to the wheat scale, the duty paid i osld lie 3s: instead of 4s. Bd. The duty on oats, if paid in the same propedians *foetid have been 2e. 2d. What did the House suppose was the average duty eeacted ? It was three times that amount-exactly 6o 6d. Yet the Noble Lord, cur side these facts rltogether beneath his notice, or unworthy the consideration of the HoUse, coolly overlooked them, and teld them that the operations of the al tered scale would be the same as the operations of the present scale. In the case of rye alone, there watt.' little difference, and that Wee beeauet , the &Mend for ry6 in this csufitry was at dui times very limited. Beane, in the serne ratio of charges, would be 4s. 2d. instead of 5.5. pi-ae instead of 6s. 4d. He put it to the Hattie, whether the operations of the altered scale of • hit Right Hondurebie Friend, • were not calculated, according to reasonable cipcdtatiOns, to amend the operations of the present last, with which to Mach fatilt had been found. Tisch the Noble Lord plaid that his great objection to the plan of his Right Hon. Nitirni * a; that - it contained a prohibitory duty ; • and to s h ow thi s h e (the Merle Lord) had eferred to the prices of wheat at Dantzie when Mr. ;desk was on the Continent, and had taken the circumstances of re cent. Yeats ; he had fount! that theycould slot ' at Dante'c under 355 per quarter,• :lotget 131" ' • he added to that 101 6d for charges. This he would not call .l an exorbitant, it certainly was an exces,ive owane,e. By aditing 10s. 6d. for charges he (the Noble Lord) he then should add th e duty to got the price up t o 4.3 5 . 64., an d prohibitory.-( Hear, b eat ° 205., a n d it w ill b e a b so l ute l y duty, which in certain) Now they h a d a p ro t ect i ve (Fe stales of the • market would not be prohibit or y: the price at which - ear.) Ihe question w as w h e ther the duty was applied whe ther it indicated was reasonable, plenty at hone, tor if that was the case the principle of. a Corn-l aw ought to be maintained, as it would secure the egriculturist s and the mass o f l a b ourers d e p e ndant roam aerieulture.- 1,) to t. , opi..'is• the home niarO u4; as °"' hrnms-prodeeers were able but e/1 , be trecesstry to levy a duty on f ore i gn corn; Noble d Lord said that a duty of twenty ;killings was a prohibitory duty. He (Mr. Gladstone) p w r o ic u e ld of jo w in he issuea at D wi a ' n h tz t i l fs 'e s m vas uP ;J6 °ll s. that it . was the natural price of corn ; an am .. every price over and above that was unnaturrteye. c iused by the 'demand from this country. The nature' 1 3 . 5. z of corn there was 255., and he was convinced, from the sy : ye t: which prevailed and the rates paid, and other circionsta • ptheaotplesuwb-ejreeet.aat\VV.h) aednsstill'esit ti which entered into the question, that they must have a certl ) lll % quantity acorn disposable fur this country at unnaturally ~75, prices, and it was against these low prices that the agriculturist of this country have the principle of protection applied to thern.. - - (Cheers. ) The Noble Lord must know that when wheat a t • 255. was shipped from Dant zie it would come into this ceun,try at a price with w hich the Engl sh farmer could not comp ete. •He (Mr. Gladstone) did not feel himself bound by what the Consul at Dantzie toll Mr. Meek, but corn could be importe fir 265., and he knew it could be imported from sOiTte OF • , the Baltic ports at 265., 275., or 28s. Hew could the 11 00 T • producercontend aaaiust. such prices ?—( Hear. ) At prerest •• • d the average price in this country was 625., and he believed in eiaif•el,, a , ent 0 London it aas 645. or 655. ; and if, assuming the statenal efel",i, tha Noble Lord, that Danizic wheat, of a superior qual it itY , could be purchased at 35s , and that a duty of I Os. on •1 4 . ° 0 portation was imposed, how was it posSibie that it. wo uld not be ae,tief, d, trimental to the, home grower.—( Hear )It should be • way, kept in mind that dui) , of VS. Was o' as n n ew impositi a ou hi be laid on the operative or commercial classes in favour of the landed interest. —( ar. ) Since the y ea r 1704, the re 11 Nei- was a period when there had not been a maximum he ig of 20e. on the importation of foreign corn. In the latter rar e year of last century it had been considerably raised durin g to a maximum duty of something over 30e. For t''`" • last one Hundred and forty yea's there was a maxi mum duty of :•os., during a portion of which there was rn trade, which may be said to be free for all practicsl Falr poses. There were thirty years to which the opponents o f the present Corn.law referred, as showing the benefit of a system • of a free corn trade, during which the manufacturers, and commerce, and :sericulture of the country advanced, 2 , ih e Y l c' alit. to do, with rapidity. and hand in hand, and yet, during. • the whole of that period, there was a maximum duty of 205. - . - (Cheers.) His Right. Hon. Friend, therefore, in the propos,' tton he has made, proposed only such a scale as that, dutiag the existence of which the country, by their own admissiai'l was in a healthy and sound condition.—(Cheers.) It was 53 ' '' i that the irregularity in the demand for corn would have a ten .dt nary to deran .;e the currency.—( Hear, hear.) He was eat' inelined to deny that there was some truth in that state ment.--( Hear, hear. ) But they must look to all the facts of the case. It has been said that by a fixed duty a steaiy and re varying trade would be prodUced, that they ,should pay for co lt , with manufactures and rot in specie, and that they wet& 'avoid derangements of the currency, and they contrast that picture with what had taken place during the •last. four yea"; But, in the first place, would a fixed duty have the effect o f doing away with the derangements in the currency ? It ‘Nas i arid that the trade with America was crippled, because tbeY di '„ not take American corn. Now, in the year 1840, they "ns , Imported 100,000 banele of flour, and their export trade t amounted to 5,800,0001. ; in the year 18,36, tbe r , e ;04 was scarcely any .imports of corn, while they expoe tat eat e),s ✓ 12,000,0001.—(Cheers.) They must not be ready to exiit- - .le 4 ' that other c =tries %voted enter with them into their commer-7;tai cial policy, if they were to change it. Could they supl'°' e that, though they may take a larger amount of* corn frost , Russia, that Russia would greatly enlarge her demand for their ,ett•l`te manufactures ?—( Hear hear, hear. I Their exports triees.lo,,,t that country amounted to 6,000,000/., and their itnp , Vo l 7,o , amounted te only 2,000,000/., and the Emperor of Russia —pee; Poo supposed by way of encouragement to open the trade in corn , hat lately imposed a inure restricted tariff. —( Hear.) It was natural to look to them as the commercial leaders of the vecrld, but it ought not.to be too hastily expected that if theY suddenly relaxed their commercial system, and had recourse ill at once to extreme mea-ures, these countries would al° change their's in a moment, for the sake of illustrating e r pricing the truth of their example. But was it not true tha t great fluctuations and derangements of the currency, and a ge neral pressure on the money market must have occurred ja substance under any Corn-law.—{Hear, hear.) G ran ting defects of the present system, would a fixed duty remedy tilos! derangements?—( Cries of " ' Hear, hear.") He did not think tat would be considered that the derangement in currency wea , l be cured by a fixed duty. It could be expected with rew then to such articles as were subject to fluctuation and -niece!' • tainty, and of which the demand must be adjusted by the suplii that they could avoid those derangements of the currency. , vv,,s not mat erial how much they imported ; the evils they " plored, and which they attributed to the Corn-law would ha v 3 existed. Those imports would not be paid tor with manufac tures, but their value must be drawn from the currency, bus; a nee: Would be diminished, labourers would be unempl o y ew deadness of the whole market would ensue, and they would h e • - in the position they were at present.—(Cries cf " Ilre! r ; hear.") He should be glad to see the proof Oa" under the system of a fixed duty, the deranjeme n e s which existed in the currency, the four last years, would. yet different from what they are at present.—(Cheers.) He .10-I't say, therefore, that the-advantages of a fixed duty in that res oeL, were greatly exaggerated, but it was the habit to make' t"`" Cora-laws the scape-g oat of all that was wrong in the country. • • (Cheers.) He would now come to the principle of a fixed MP ' In the first place the principle • of a fixed duty was a new pr in. ' elide of legislation, while a Corn-la'w had existed for five hot' dyed years; but it might be inconvenient to go so far back- - ; ( A laugh.) And there had been a maximum duty, excel's' during the year 1815, when there was a prohibitive in stead of a maximum duty ; and even the Corn-law of 1815 wa s the application of a principle that had prevailed for years, and .had governed the structure of every Corn -la t i , since 1660. The distinctive character of a fi xed tinii was that the duty had no relation to price. It got rid of 'a averages. But if they looked into the accurate tables draw up by Mr. Porter, they would find that the principle ofthe Corn-law was that the duty was always governed by dee Pr, i r l e i ; and that as the price so was the duty.—(Hear, heara.) ' gradatieue of duty had been made more numerous gen Prat t„,l but as to principle, the fixed duty approximated to the pie the of the present law, and the principle proposed by - ) Noble Load is altogether a novel one.—( Hear. be The Noble Lord said, and he thought said rather boldly, I-u i aa the Committee of 1821 recommended a fixed duty, but it , a fi xed duty at the importation price of 48s. a quarter-0J eF: bear)—and he concluded that the Noble Lord would not tore to offer such a boon as that to those who were advoca to f t o a i f e r , e e w t h r i a e d h e . was ( L i o n r a d2 d . , b R I e u . s s a Mr. G d e l a a d n s t o o h n s e e r t v h a e t n i n oa a n c t r i o n s u s t 0,. ,. ; in t h i e tt N ee ob h l e e ld Lo ou re t 's a a i r ix gu ed m d e u n t t y , t a li s a a n fi t t h m e t a n t s t e e l r ie fo q r u d o i t s e e d u . ssio T n i a f tills• Tliere was a passage in that report, even more favo ur abl e did not propose it as a substitute for or a correction of the la then existing. What they proposed was that the duty should h". fixed according to the importation of price. , But , g rantee. that it was as the Noble Lord had stated, and that a fixed dug had the authority of Mr. Huskisson—and a higher authority was nowhere to be found—yet Mr. Huskisson aftersvar_O changed that opinion, and saw reason to conceive tha t a gr'",a, .luated scale was capable of more beneficial operation. -13ir was the Noble Lord to tell him that the authority of .- Huskisson's report a 1821 was to over- ride his authority af'* later period?—( Hear, hear.) Was Mr. Huskisson's condo 25, and declarations then to be considered as over-riding his auth,• rity of 1827, when he showed that a graduated scale 0 10 capable of a better adjustment? But what was t ' if real objection to a fixed duty ?—(Hear.) He did not s that its advantages were much less than they professed to I 0 not only in attaining the objects which it was represented ei likely—aye, as the sure means of effecting, but tha t a 6 1 e t, duty was in fact a delusion, for it could nut be maintain ,'"or T ilat one single reason was sufficient why the proposition , a fixed duty ought. not, to be maintained. It weruld be o r y possible for any Legislature in this country to maireta i - 1 ,15 duty beyond a mere nominal duty, when prices were t a rate.hhri, during r t e. ' 1' N o ble last surfing t o Lord year( s w c h a bl o ee m en a h e very muc h nru si d n sacp s h v p i e s a h r my r b :t e ol o 4, that at high prices it would be impossible to levy a fixe d If they referred to toe authority of Mr. Canning, str, do iii strictly the organ of Mr. Huskisson's commercial vie 'Ns e d 1827, he says that with famine in the manufactorie female in the cottage it world lie impossible to maint 3 1, 1 t fixed duty on the article on which life was chiefly supported• why need they go hack so far ? —why not appeal to the auth oria' which had been afforded in so gratifying manner this nigl the Noble Lo r d hims e lf ?—( Cheers and laughter.) Did t fe , not understand that, skilled as the Noble Lord was in del 6 0 proficient as he was in the liraetice of the House, and able he was in supporting his arguments. whatever those arguinclie might be—(Laughter)—had he not to-night formally al3;'; doned his own Foposition— (Cheers) —and declared his open . , that it would be impossible to levy a fixed duty beyond a e.,• 3 1. twinpoint ?—( Great cheering.) There must be a provis, e whatever Government, or whatever Parliament might it, of a fixed maximum price by which to reduee the duty ; the question was which mode of adjustment trould be p re, able. He was convinced that the Noble Lord in spite , abhorrence of fraud, notwithstanding all that lie had said , a e4 all that he had written on restrictions. and on the excellev`iet of a fixed duty, had actually declared that he was rea'V eo l•e have a fixed duty.—( Hear, hear, and checri.) If the pr e y hit scale jumps tree or three shillings, no jump less than of ) shillings would satisfy the Noble Lord.—(Great checrinfeset NoW a duty of twenty shillings on foreign corn as hero. , on the proposed scale, though it was much pig tie than it could be justi fi ed by ordinary argu e ' ° O s to him to be a fair compromise betweei've • elelt aP l!ofth Pea ei r s e re 2 sent system and the agricultural interest. , 1 4. agriculturists 'demanded protection on tw o grounds th` from the peculiar burdens laid upon land ; secondly, ee,i,ef ground of the immense investments that have taken t i e i' either the present system. Now, how did the case to :11_. The article most necessary, and of most impootance sutsistence of the people , was also the most Re , et" at ,s price, and one on which they claim, not as a favour bo. i eiseolute matter of justice', that up to a certain p shod.: have isrotection. It was admitted, except by th. Lord. that Ythen the price reached a certain point 10 tr Stg 4 t of wheat, that rrotection could not be given, the tha not being able id give to the producer of whee*,,teeleo o protection which it gave to the producer of every other 3 ' h) . It assumes to protect him, and ought to compensate itir e e at del y at a low price, fur its inability to give him a p r otection , e 0,: at a high one ; he could see no injustice in tbis arratigeZte Other objections would depend on the skill with which the "atii of the plant were adjusted, but he did think that a cornre e ' co ie ' et high duty, at a low point of price, was no more than b e tte d ; in fairness demand. It was, therefore, that he had arg f r o aaa'a great length on the present subject.—( Hear, beas' t i e el the Opposition.) But with respect to that come: ; narrow practical question now before them, the P'scen whether the protection due to agriculture shou ld be g one particular form or in another. They had heard re ' v ai ty e cried to the present law, and those evils had been of aggerated, but• they had no right to argue froli thine con tra o j ' old law., that the cootinuance of those evils, % is t th, pot would obviate their recurrence; and he argued a, c i a ; o y duty, and he trusted .he should show that ,t '" woo": t of in practice, and it Wir.l imp ossible it should do , n e e lit ry other system do, what it p,'oposed to effect; .'lo"9l2eveu eu ty fact, it was no better than a d e ,•usion, because het ee 6 ,.eci 1-1 De scientiously, and with his mind and heart, that I ,' ,lrt i t er ;ielo t could not, under a pressure, be continued. .0”. 05 argued that the measure proposed be his Right 1. e tr t was a measure of practiced relief —a eas ore wh i c h , and hoped, and believed, was a measure whin dt snattY nsi , ter o w found willing to accept, though many would talt• gr ,..it „ r e it embodied precisely their own sentiments o n t "ja , c , or `iv; m jeet How was it possible that any scheme , o r whi e. t a n° penal, which involved a multitude of a gurnentll..iclett it eluded feelings under which they were themselves s clit did sometimes driven—they could riot expect that any e t rl_e e , he e t would command universal acceptation. But this ra l i e n u i, 0, 1 . ) ). e r Say, that the presumption was not only in their to att g , ought to be in , the opinion of those 01 pos_c,( sto , u0 , . 0 pre erit Corn-law', a great improvement on the sY wou ld s which they existed,—an improvement which th e great ..1- net t t c i a , e r r into of t e h i e fe a c g t r e i t e i u t i li t o u u r i t s s h . e %li occurr e nce t e_f t iai t : e n t ;e a , r, d e, ,0 8 0, g iif c hea t 1 •! eon inhateting evils which wuuld attend w ayhater at i ' ha d. A teafi e monstrous evils attendant 07 t c h -.0% 1 - a ta g w ai :: s a t acrd hat, the he'd y'head of ' e subject that they hay( ever . re id them the sti•orine h st late Government (Loud c e c e v Government had told them, and th7tt, de tha' he, for his part, even then, not w iths . 7 h u . n ' riee s, _' o " 4 th i 6 that haA occurred, notwithstanding the l__l?./ovrreent, and ran4ement of the currency, the lack of t• depression of their export trade, the _ roe ) 1 a home market,—yet he (Lord Alei h n e n u e mae , e io t o them, in a recent declaration — 0 the p ren . T ea eine et,aisees ittesuliarlv aaldie abic d t b v Fi h e 't tbo, teVti , 110.alt01XL . . 1011 Pr U P °Se 111(1 n°' o ,l 2 , " 4. see cleirly and distliictly'that its objeFc; ill blO od, a violent struggle, the creation of 'I'}IE S UN LON DON, TUESDAY rt Cr MORNING, FEBRITARY 15, 1842. ~.,,