The Sun. — London, England, 1831-09-20 00:00:00

,;pg 0 ; • Ter, „bushed, hance lD 7l; JencY• t y er from 0 that the P ¢ t onlY 44 0 E aro i n creP 4lt , er}'; ' n tectioo 0' ; reeholdel ibl o w;l 3oe , 19 tende d the ° lies-- the othert; —id sYs`r" ;r' inflae ority re not " " ,;td :heir reP1:00 steed tPsid en dang ti e an Pr yer ot i Metob l e le i its, and f Imo 0_ A a. , Abbe e :tagi,rs,aol He fartil reP ut w ere rri rs • bu t , . _, approc.-eir Psl to t P .010 that Ldl i s woul°:i le lion , ow tone', nanifete 3 , wo sitting the lice, could any lion. Mtinber ventoro to deny the ne e?eitY of the present measure as neeesiary to the welfare andciety in this countty ?—(Hear, hear.). The Hon. Gallant Member continued to address the House at "lie length, but in so low a tone that not one connected Beats n of hi s remar k s cou ld b e heard even in the front ea of the gallery. Colonel EVANS then moved that the debate be ad jrturned to to-morrow (this day.) This was put and carried. SCOTCH AND IRISH REFORM BILLS. The second reading of both those Bills was deferred till Friday. In answer to a question from Sir GEORGE CLERIC, Lord ALTHORP was understood to say, that it was Int ended to move the second reading of the Scotch Re form Bill on thit day. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, a d the House adjourned at a Quarter past One. HOUSE OF LORDS, SEPTEMBER 19. At Tea minutes past Five o'clock the Loan CHAN.. *ll4 ort.Loa took• his seat on the Woolsack. f The Duke ol DEVONSHIRE presented a petition in , a ,"r of Reform from Derby. The Noble Duke ' 1 ! T e ed, that the petition was signed in March yrs a'ts but he could assure the House that the people of &ter • The were still of the same opinion as to this question. . I. ' 'he Marquis of LONDONDERRY was not connected With the county of Derby, nor did he rise to contra fi▪ let the statement of the Noble Duke, but he bad in ,7 :4 "eived two letters from respectable persons in that town, °:!" of which stated that the petition in question was favour to, a n d s i gne d on the 14th March, and was in /our of the the Reform Bill ; but the present Bill was not what i t th en was . Th e ot h er s t a ted that the sending of the petition at present did not show much wisdom • their part, nor respect to that House. It also - 1.. .a 1 15 , 1 his att e nti on t o th e a lteration which had been made the petition after it had been siened. ~ The Duke o f CUMBERLAND conceived that a peti `loll drawn up for the last Parliament could not be re ' eeived in the present. Lord KENYON spoke to the same effect. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY moved that the Petition be withdrawn. Earl GREY enquired what the prayer of the petition was? The petition was then read at length by the clerk. Earl GREY, having resumed, remarked that the peti tion had no date attached, and only prayed that that House Would pass certain Bills for Reform, when they might e _otue befor e it. I n hi s op i n i on th e r e could be no objection to the reception of the petition. Lord WHARNCLIFFE suggested that the proper mode W ould be t o w i t hd raw t h e petition, and then the peti tioners might prepare another. The Earl of ELDON thought the petition irregular, but had no objection to adjourn the question. He took the liberty to recommend to his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, to be more vigilant iu attending to these Petitions, in order to see th,t they did not trench on the legitimate privileges of that House, which, he understood, some of them had done. The LORD CHANCELLOR wished be had the power to resbain that and other irregularities. But the Speaker of their Lordships' House had no more power to preserve order than any other Peer ; and certainly he had seen, within the last three months, more disorderly discussions in their Lordships' House than he had ever seen before. Peer put a question to another Peer, and made, perhaps, te n speeches upon it, although there was no question be fore the House; and then brought some question before ' t he House on the same subject, and made ten speeches mor e. Their Lordships had very good standing orders to restrain these irregularities, hut their Speaker hail no par ticular power to enforce them. That duty was entrusted to the Peers generally, and, consequently, as what was ev er) , body's business was nobody's business, the orders Were neglected. In the other House, every Member pre -44611g a petition was responsible for its regularity, and, Ls he supposed, it was the same in this House ; and, eon lidering the number of petitions, it was, perhaps, best it should be so. The Earl of ELDON was of opinion that the Lord C hancellor, as a Peer, was bound to take care that pe titions did not interfere with the legitimate privileges of t hat House. h .. The Duke of DEVONSHIRE would withdraw the h 't'on but had no doubt he would have the honour of '„ e. r "enting an o ther from the same parties, in favour of Pendin measure of Reform. I he petition was withdrawn. PORTUGAL. if The Earl of ABERDEEN—Not htiving been in the °use at the time. when the Noble Earl (Grey) had con tradicted a statement made by him and his Noble Friend ne ar him ( t h e D u k e o f W e lli ng ton), as to the proceedings of the French Admiral in the Tagus, he could not exactly 84 Y in what terms that contradiction had been givee. His Stat ement was, that the French Admiral had made use of tae Power which he possessed in the port of Lisbon to de triand from the Portuguese Government commercial ad vantages in favour of France. The Noble Earl, as be i n derstood, said that it had been communicated to the • . r , e uels Government, that something of that kind had been -4 'd and that the French Government had expressed great su rprise at this, and had denied all knowledge of it. The ü ble Earl had accompanied this statement with a hi gh eulogy on th e g o o d faith of the French Government. T O: that he had no objection, but he was certainly a little - . llr Prised when he heard that the Noble Earl had, on ell authority, contradicted a statement of a matter of fact Which he could prove to be carrect, He was ready • to s ubstantiate the fact which his Noble Friend and he had ss a , a -''''.; and if he did so at the expence of the French Go , iernMent, it was the ault of the Nbh Earl, and not his i t would he retnetnbe f ied, that early in July last a capitu . • • , a i ti °o had b een c oncluded between the French Admiral in W e Taus, and the Portuguese authotities. Ahout ten aY after that, on the 22d July, another capitulation was e"neluded, in which the Admiral attempted to obtain the commercial ads , intages for France to which he had before adv erted ; a n d wh e n he h a d made the statement, he spoke with th a t cap it u l at i on i n hi s hand, and he did so now. e would des c libe what that second capitulation was. It ~ the of eight articles. The first stated that it was " e Only real ground for the second convention. It was t,°t founded on any infraction of the capitulation of ge 14th July last ; but it was stated that the object ,as to correct certain inaccuracies which had appeared it I . ° the publi c j ourna l s , re l a ti ve to th e fi r st convention; and ~,,, cuss agreed that an accurate statement should be 7, u nahed in the Lisboa Gazette. The second article ' " e luted to French travellers coming to Lisbon, and the Protection anti facilities to be afforded them. The third r .elated to an a ll ege d i nsult, said to have been offered to ; 1 1 .'e tri- co l emre d flag on its first appearance in the Tagus. h e fourth w as th a t whi c h more particularly concerned ta o: • " 4 country, and to that, more especially, lie called the , : 4 .ttenti on of the Home. The proposition made by the French iii_ .! ltnir a l was different from that which appeared in this article le of t he convention. The French Admiral demanded that the ,t -°nnerce of France with Portugal should be placed by Portuguese the , • - Government on the footing of that of the i tn ost fav oure d na ti on , "n a tion la plus favor& " meaning 11 the same footing as the commerce of England. That Iv i a as qualifi e d b y th e G o vernment of that country, which Wa s 0 0r ancient ally, aa- and which was still our ally , a lthou g h "" Were doing all in our power to destroy its Govern in I • 1-, -- , • and the a rti c le purported that the Portuguese Gaa a •ernment was disposed to treat with Frence, on the i' auhject of commerce, on terms of reciprocity. The fifth 1 r article related to indemnity to be given to certain French articl e at Lisbon. The sixth article stated that it bad p e en implied, in the former convention, that certain tl l' reneht nen, confined for political offences, should be set at il l i f • er tYs The seventh article provided that the protection 11 l O . the laws should be given to French subjects in Lisbon 1 .' that none should be confined till the Judge Conservator had decoded on the legality of the arrest ; and that a French -1 ta . should be appointed to take care that French subjects 0 Z ha o the protection of the Government. The eighth stipulated t the Portuguese should not fortify the positions on the /, pap Tagus while the French fleet remained there. This convention o 4 signed by the Freiich Admiral, aiad Santarem, the IJ butgee Alittister. The Noble Earl could not question r.I u. that this convention had actually been entered into ; r ' if there was any doubt as to its authenticity, he was Pre pared ne to prove it. Ile would make no further com a 1 ter on this document so hick he had produced, only in order to set hinistif right with the House, and to prove r . t f l . ',t his st atements, wh i c h h a d b een i mpeac h e d, were per ,"L'lY correct. ' ' - . s' E Earl GREY —It was perfeeLly naltual that the Noble C' . " v •r) should wiull to set himself right with the House, , "r . show on what authority his statement had been made. of ut, without being at all entirely satisfied with the colt ree ,au on es- of the information on which the Noble Earl had 0 ''' ruled his statements, he had only to say that his (Earl le . (jt.eY's) contradiction rested on the authority of the French le tz,:7.orntrient, whose despatch relative to this point, it was Ji l'il, intention to lay on their Lordships' table.—(Hear.) f: . understood the Noble Earl to have stated, that he bad it le understood on unquestionable authority, that the French Ad 111_t_iral had been availing himself of the power which he / ,0 'in gamed in the Tagus, to induce the Portuguese Llo vertnient to enter into a commercial treaty with France. To that allegation, be at that time could give no answer, as be had at the time had nn distinct nr specific informa- 1 lion on the subject. It was true that the Portuguese agent, or Minister, or agent in this country, bad alluded to some,: thing about the French Admiral's having made some pro , posal about a commercial treaty. But this he did in a vaeue and incidental manner, and merely to enforce hi: argument with the Government of this country, while he was urging our interposition with the French Government to prevent the taking away the remaining Portuguese ships from ihe Tagus, and to procure the restoration of those Air: which had been taken away. It was merely a vague incidental allusion to the circumstance, without any docu ment or other evitir nee to show that the allegation was well founded. He certainly did not feel that this was a species of information to which he attached any great weight, or on which he felt himself called upon to act, more particular since the French fleet had left the Tagus without any appearance of any protestation having been made on the subject of commercial advantages. He un- , derstood that the proposition of the French Admiral re lated to the restoration of four hundred prisoners ; he understanding, that if released they should be put on their Rtrole to undertake nothing against the existir,g Govern vernment of Portugal. He had beard nothing about any commercial propositions from British merchants residing in, or trawling with, Portugal, who were most nearly in. terested in the question nor from any credible source whatever, and the kind of notice he had received was so uncertain, indefinite, and vague, th It he did not feel that it formed any proper-ground for interference on the subject. But then the Noble Earl referred to a con vention concluded between the French Admiral and the Portuguese authorities, subsequent to the 14th July. Perhaps the Noble Earl might be surprised at what he was, about to state ; hut the fact was, that this was the first time that he heard of that convention. He knew only or one convention, consisting of 14 articles (Earl of ABERDFEN—Ot 20 articles)—consiating at first of 14 arti _ . des, to which 6 were afterwards added, but these 6 con tained nothing. of importance. In a dispatch of Lord Granville, from Paris, dated tile sth September, he et ited, that the French Minister, Sebastiani, had expressed his surprise at some statements that he had seen in the public journals, about a proposition baying been made by the French Admiral, relative to a Commercial treaty between France and Portugal ; and Lord Granville added, that General Sebastiani had authorised him to declare that there had been no negotiations whatever of the kind set on foot. It this was not a distinct and explicit contradiction of the Noble Earl, he did not know what could be so.—(Hear, hear.) He had undoubtedly said that he believed the French Government were acting with honour and good faith, and that opinion he was nut disposed to retract. The statement in the dispatch was a complete contradic tion to that-of the Noble Earl, and fully justified the con tradiction that he had given to it. This was his autho rity, which lie considered as somewhat better than the authority on which the Noble Elul had relied. On which side the truth lay would shortly appear. The Duke of WELLINGTON—When he spoke on this subject on a former night, he did so from a document in the hands of his Noble Friend, from which document it appeared that the French Admiral had proposed that the Portuguese Government should place the French on the same favourable commercial footing as the English, and that this proposition had been resisted by the Portuguese Government.—(Hear, bear, from the Opposition benches.) Now the Noble Earl sail that lie had no knowledge of that convention, and he gave the Noble Earl full credit for the truth of that assertion. The Noble Earl, how ever, produced the contradiction given by the French Mi nister to the statement made by him and his Noble Friend, to which lie could only say that he had authority fur what he had stated. But how happened it, that having a Consul-General at Lisbon, lie had not, even so late as the month of September, inquired into and ascertained, and communicated to his Government, a negociation which had taken place in the month of July.—(Hear, hear.) There must he some reason for this. Either that officer must have been very negligent, or else there was a total want of confidence in him en the part of the Government of Portugal.—(Hear, hear, hear.) This circumstance ought to make our Go vernment look to the conduct of the British Consul- General at Lisbon, that it might be seen whether that con duct had not been such, with respect to the Government of Portugal, as to render it impossible for that Govern ment to treat him with confidence.—(Hear, hear.) If British ships were sent out in order to protect British sub jects, he hoped that no better pretection would be required than that which was due to them by the laws of the country where they resided ; ler he denied that they were entitled to any particular privileges in this respect, or that the Portuguese Government was hound to afford them any protection superior to, or contrary to the laws of the country. He was the more anxious on this subject, as he was apprehensive that all this interference would end in producing a civil war in Portugal and Spain—(Hear, hear, front the Opposition benches)—and fie contended that it was the duty of our Government to cheek our Consul- General, in order to show the Portuguese that our Go vernment did not sanction any unjustifiable inteiference on his part with the proceedings of the Portuguese Government. He was the more anxious that this system of undue inter ference should be checked, because he was convinced that not only the properties, but the lives of British subjects, would be in imminent danger, in case of a civil commotion 'ng place in Portugal. He more earnestly recommended the Government of this country to abstain from any un justifiable interference in the internal affairs of Portugal, and lie did so nut more out of regard to the interest of Portugal, than tc the honour of England.—(Hear, hear.) Lord HOLLAND—Whatever might be the opinion of the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, or of any other Nimble Lord on the point ot order, he was sure that this discussion, without any question before the House, was contrary to the standing orders. But although his Noble Friend hail given so plain and clear a contradiction to the statement of time Noble Earl, and had stated that he had never heard of the circumstance of any commer cial proposition having been made by the French Admiral, except as a vague and indistinct and indefinite rumour, the Noble Earl appeared to think it incumbent upon him t , , insist that his allegation was wed founded anti true. He might, perhaps, be thought to encroach on the province of time Noble Lords on the opposite side of the llou-e, when he said that he would put a question , to them.— (Hear, hear.) But he had the same right to put ques tions to them, as they had to put questions to his Maji-sty's Ministers. They said that they had authority for their assertions, and he gave them full credit for not meaning to state any thing except what they believed to he the fact. But what was the authority?--(A laugh.) A laugh was nothing to time purpose. But the Noble Duke had thought proper to attack a most able and vigilant public officer, and in doing so be took it for granted as a fact, that such a convention as that to which lie had referred had actually been signed, and that such a proposal had been made, which was a point that still remained to be proved. Now he asked the Noble Duke and the Noble Earl from whom or on what authority had they obtained their information ? When they relied on this as a matter of charge against a public officer, they ought to state the authority on which their information rested. But they only referred to some paper in which the statement was made ; but from whom that paper came; or what degree of credit was due to it, their Lordships knew nothing. Tar the absence of any good authority they had only to examine the nature of the fact and try it by probabilities. In the first place it was strange that if such st convention had been concluded with such an article in it as that which had been referred to, the French Admiral should have waited for eight or ten days after the first execution before entering upon this second negociation. In the next place, the Noble Earl had been for three years in quest of some merits, that might with some colour be ascribed to Mi guel ; and in all that time the Noble Earl had started but very little game; and therefore it was not surprising that he eliould be delighted at finding this paper, without exa mining very closely into the authority on which it rested. 44 N o w, then," the Noble Len! ea - claimed, "cope, euraika —_l have out the mighty secret ; I have discovered one great merit in Miguel ; for he refused to join the French, and adhered to the English, although deserted by them at hi s utmost need. But if it really had been true that Mi guell had adhered by the ie toti'eEnglish, i n opposit i on to a propo- B a made French, was it nut mos t s i ngu l ar th a t Miguel had never 111%0 it as a merit with our Govern ment ? Was it likely if he had done this that he should never have suggested to our Government that such a pro posal had been made, and that he had had the merit to r e sist it, and deserved credit with us for hawing done so ? Yet nothing of all this was ever directly and ex plicitly done. The statement of the Portugu ese Mini ster was a reasoning paper u p on other sub j ect s , and some allusion to this proposal etas only made incid e ntally in support of his argumen t. Then, again, n h at cou ld he more probable than that the Noble Lords on the opposite s ide of the House had been misin formed ? Let us look at the kind of information which they had been in the habit of receiving, and see what credit was due to it. The Noble Earl had Stated as facts information which be had received relative to pro ceediegs at Lisbon and Terceira, all of which turned out to be unfounded. In the first place he had made a great noise about the detention of the chartered ships at Lisbon by our Consul, although they were proceeding on a per fectly legal expedition. But the fact was neither more nor less than this, that doubts had been entertained as to wise ther it watt legal for the chartered ships to proceed on that expedition, and the Con;nl did no ?Ore than his duty in ' detaining them till he got instructions from home. as to whether it was legal or not, - -An answer was without a moment's delay sent out, that it was perfectly legal for the chart•red ships to proceed. on the expedition, and the de tention was immediately put an end to. Then, in the next place, the Noble Earl had said a great deal about the differ• nt measure that was meted out -to the adherents of Donna Maria at Terceira. But what was the fact? The moment the irregularity was known remonstrance was made and satisfaction demanded, and satisfaction was as promptly given ; and the neutrality of the British nation was ever afterwards respected and never infringed. Then, in the course of the last month, the Noble Earl had told us a great deal about the people of the Azores, and their attachment to Miguel, as he had told us about the a-tachtnent of the people of Portugal to the same per sonage—they who had not been remarkable for their deference to democratic feelings or democratic attach mits. Their Lordships had been told by the Noble Earl on the sth August that the people of Terceira, lie believed, and the people of the other islands, he knew, were attached to the Government of Don Miguel, and felt themselves oppressed by the Military Government of the Regency.—(Hear.) En short, the Noble Earl represented the whole of the Azores to he the faith'ul subjects of Miguel, and the Government of Ter reira to he nothing better , than pirates. But lie (Lord Holland) believed that it was on that same day one of his Majesty's ships left the Azores to carry to England the act. count o' a brilliant action, in which a small expedition from Terceira, unprovided with artillery, took possession of St. Michael's, one of the finest of those islands, and assisted by the inhabitants, who were said to be so devoted to Don Miguel, trade themselves masters of the capital. The commander of the ship which brought the account to England bore testimony not only to the gallantry and courage with which the troops of the Regency effected the conquest, tint to their mercy, forbearance, and moderation tfter victory. He (Lord Holland) ventured, therefore, to suppose that the Noble Earl might have been misin formed, or might have fallen into mistake. But it was worth while to mark how Noble Lords opposite spoke of the objects of the French squadron when first it entered the Tagus, and what winks and hints, and cheers, and sarcasms passed upon the other (the Opposition) side of the House when that expedition was alluded to. The French Admiral (as Noble Lords would have it) did not go to the Tagus through a feeling of sympathy for his in jured and oppressed fellow-subjects. Oh, co; he and his Government had far different views. —(Cheers from the Opposition.) Noble Lords might cry hear, hear--(A laugh)—but if the French squadron had been sent to Lisbon with other intentions than those that were professed, what did they eventually obtain? In fact, what further did they seek? He begged their Lord ships to mark what did happen. The fleet went, it was said, to revolutionize Portugal. They lay some two or three weeks in the Tagus ; and in the mean time there was no revolution, nor any disturbance. " Oh, oh," says the Noble Earl, " now I have it— now see how fond the people of Portugal are of their good King Don Mi guel."—(Laughter.) But the fleet sailed away from under the walls of Lisbon, and left Miguel to his loving subjects ; and what were the consequences ? Tumults and insur rection immediately took place, wholly unconnected with any thing in which the French had interfered.—(Hear, hear.) 'Noble Lords might cry " Hear, hear !" but he would leave it to their ingenuity to reconcile those dis- tutbances with the boasted affection of the Portuguese people to their present Government.—(llear, hear.) He could not, therefore, give any credit to the assertion that the French Government had views which they did not avow respecting Portugal ; nor could he believe it without sonic better proofs than the surmises of the Noble Lords op posite. He could not help observing the community of feeling which subsisted between those Noble Lords and Don Miguel on certain subjects. The Portuguese Go vernment were said to have felt great gratification on the prospect that the Reform Bill would be thrown out, and that, consequently, the present Ministers would be obliged to retire from his Majesty's service. At every stage of its success, sighs were wafted from the Thames to the Tagus, and responding aspirations borne backikorn the Tagus to the Th imes.—(The Noble Lord conclWl by referring to the convention of the 14th of July, but his observations were not distinctly heard below the bar.) The Earl of ABERDEEN did not think that the Noole Lord, who had just sat down, could lay his hand up , n his heart, and say that the objects of the French Go.. vernment, in their conduct toward. Portugal, were not such as he (Lord A.) had stated them to be.—(llear.) Indeed the Noble Lord seemed to be speaking of what ne really knew nothing about. He (Lord Aberdeen) thought that the Noble Lord might at least have hesitated before he gave currency to a contradiction of what he (Lord Aberdeen) and his N..ble Friend near him (the Duke of Wellington) had stated, unless his purpose was merely to amuse himself and the House. But if the Noble Lord (Holland) was really sincere in the opinions wvich he had stated, he (Lord Aberdeen) held in his hand the Lisbon Gazette, in which the articles of the ctin• vention were published, in compliance with the first ar tide; and he could satisfy the Nobls. I ord, from that pa per, of the facts which he seemed to doubt. But lie should not dwell further on the subject, because he himself was fully satisfied of the accuracy of his own statements. He thought it the duty of every Member of Parliament to inform himself as much as possitle of the conduct of other Governments, so far as concerned the honour and the welfare of this country—( Hear, bear)—and to lay before the House everything of importance which might come to his knowledge. With respect to the convention, he was sure that the Noble Earl opposite (Earl Grey) was aware of the correctness of his statement ; and he should now only notice the misrepresentation, of the Noble Lord who hail last addressed their Lordabips, respecting what ho had said upon a former occasion. Two British ve-sels hid been chartered by the Portuguese Government, for the purpose of conveying information, the port being, at the time, blockaded by the French squa dron. Now the Noble Lord impugned his statement respecting the unjus,itiable detention of those ships by the British Consul ; and yet the fact, that lie did detain them, turned out to be true to the letter. It was true that Mr. Hoppner reported to his Government what h e had done; and he (Lord Aberdeen) never supposed that his Majesty's Ministers could have sanctioned such injus tice.—(Hear.) The conduct ol the Consul, however, or. casioned the most serious inconvenience to the Government of Portugal. All that he (Lord Aberdeen)) h stated upon that subject was perfectly correct. The Noble Lord (Holland) had also alluded to some others of his statements. It was true that he had attributed to the French Govern ment other objects than to obtain rep oration ; but •he had never stated that as having official information of their having such views. He still believed, however, that the French Government did expect great results to follow from the expedition of their fleet to the Tagus; and, in fact, their Consul expressed such an expectation. The Noble Lord spoke of time disturbances which took place after the departure or the French squadron, as proofs that the sub jects of Don Miguel were not attached to his Government. The tact was, that about three hundred persona mutinied, and the result of their seditious movements proved the truth of every syllable which he had said respecting the popularity of Don Miguel. No man was induced to join the mutiny. On the contrary, all persons, civil and mili tary, united to put it down. From all the information which be (Lord Aberdeen) had received, he firmly be lieved that, if that country were left to itself, the present Portuguese Government was as firmly established as any other in Europe.—(llear f ) He could not say what the presence of an English and French fleet in the Tagus might effect. He could not say what disturbance, and misery, and civil war, might not be effected by money gent from England for the purpose (as money hod been sent before), and by intrigues of every sort, But 'on believed that it would be 801 exceedingly difficult to injure the stability of the present Government. He was only anxious to set the Noble Lord opposite right respecting those transactions; and having endeavoured to do so, be did not wish, on a question of such very great ddicacy, to press the discus sion further. Earl ti REY was sure that the House must perceive the inconvenience of the discus:ion which bad been carried on that evening—(llear)—and lie, therefore, was very un willing to continue it. But when the Noble Earl spolts) of money having been furnished from Englael f; s r the pur pose of creating disturbances in Portugal, he wished to ask the Noble Earl, did he mean to say that his Majesty's Go vernment had had anything to do in such a transaction. — (The Earl of ABthtDEEN—No.) Ile was glad to bear the Noble Earl say no. He was glad to have the Noble Earl's contradiction of the impression which hi i speech was cal culated to make. Whether money was furnished or not for such purposes lie knew init. Indeed he very much doubted that there were any sources front which such a supply could be furnished. The Noble Earl opposite bad expressed his surprise that be (Lord grey), after all he had seen and known, could troy i bave fe,itli ma the French qoyern ; ;le;,•t. But he must say, that, after all he had seen, and from all that he knew, be never, in any part of the transactions referred to, had any mason to doubt the good faith of that Government.—(Hear.) The Noble Earl ad mitted that lie and the Noble Duke beside Lien had made their statements upon the information of others, on whom they could rely ; at the same time that they refused to state from what sources they had derived that information, It TVIP most likely that the information came from persons ' connected with the Portuguese Government and interested in giving to their representations the tone most favourabh to that Government. It must, therefore, be allowed tha anything from such per-ons must be received with some degree of distrust. The French Admiral had distinctly denied that commercial advantages had been demanded o; the part of France. The Noble Earl thought that the British Consul was greatly to blame if he did not 'mak. known to his Government the proceedings of the Frenc Admiral respecting the commercial treaty; hut from all that he (Earl Grey) knew of that gentleman, lie was sure that the result would prove that no such fault was attri butable to him. Having no communication from him or the subject, his Majesty's Ministers were hound to take th. assurance of the French Government. The Noble Lord had said very properly, that he would not press his Ma. jesty's Government for a statement of their motives an" intentions. Bat at the same time that he spoke of not pressing them as to the objects for which they sent out thi ships of the line, he expressed hopes that this and that were not the objects, thereby indirectly attributing th o s e objects to the expedition, he certainly was not adhering to the professions with wh ch he commenced.—(Hear.) He would occupy the House no longer than merely to say, that until he should have some furs her proofs than the opinions of the Noble Earl, he could not doubt the good faith dal. present Governm , nt of France. The Earl of ABERDEEN was certain that the Noble Earl at the head of his Majesty's Government could not dispute the authenticity of a fact which had been corn pleted. In ordinary times, if the. French Government at tempted to impose injurious conditions urnn Portugal, the British Consul would, of course, be the first person to he applied to by tine latter Government, and to be informed of its difficulty. But considering the situation in tel floppner had placed himself, and his close connection with the French Admiral—a connection very unusual f,,r a British Consul—it might be expected that he was the last person to whom the Portuguese Government would apply. —( Ileac. ) Lord HOLLAND replied, hut in a tone inaudible be. low the Bar; and the conversation 'was then allowed to drop. GAME LAWS' AMENDMENT BILL. The Duke of RICHMOND rose to move the second reading of the Glow Laws Amendment Bill. Looking to the evils which had flowed from the system of game laws hitherto in force, and the ill blood which they had occasioned, there could scarcely be a second opinion as to the necessity of change. If the dissatisfaction to which they had given rise was nothing more than rabble clamour, he would be one of the last amongst their Lordships to take any measure in defirence - to it. But it was impos sible to consider the present game laws without being struck with their unreasonableness, injustice, and oppres sion.—(llear-,. hear.) Amongst other most unjust enact ments, the Legislation had constituted into a crime the buying or selling of game—acts which, upon no principle of morals, could any man acknowledge to be criminal. Bid as such a law was in principle, it was in practice in finitely worse. One of the objects of the Bill to which he now prayed the attention of their Lordships was, to render that innocent in the eye of the law which was in nocent in the eyes of all mankind. The Bill, therefore, proposed to repeal all the laws by which the sale of game was prohibited. The next great evil which it was desired to remove lay in the unjust and oppressive laws respecting the qualification to kill game. Those, like all other bad and unjust laws, were inefficient for the purposes for which they had been enacted. It was unnecessary to dwell at any length upon the absurdity of laws which permitted the eldest son to shoot, whilst they prohibited the lather. When a man, convicted under the 24th and 25th of Charles the Second, of shooting a partridge or a pheasant, was sentenced to three months' imprisonment, and before the ink was dry upon the paper which contained his sen- tence, the Magistrate himself who signed that paper would give permission to one of his own younger sons to go out and shoot game in violation of the law. Could it be won dered, then, that the people should . say there was one law for the rich and .snot• er for the poor. The more those laws were looked into the more unjust and unreasonable they would appear. He might be told that the poacher was a bad and desperate character. Certainty he was not disposed to stand up there and defend the poacher, but to condemn the laws which encouraged) the poacher in his occupation.--(Hear, hear.) The farmer was not allowed to kill or to sell the game which was fed eipon his own crops. But the richer sort of people in the great towns would have game upon their tables, and the market must be supplied, and in that way a temptation was held out to toe labourer to violate ti e laws. He is led on from crime to crime, arid sometimes finisher his career on the scaffold—the victim of laws of which the princip el effect was to hold out temptation. Some notion of the extensively mischievous operation of those laws may be formed by looking to the number of convictions which had token pl ice under them from 1827 to 1880. Those convictions were no less than 8,502, making an average of upwards of 2,000 yearly; and of the persons so convicted many were under twenty years of age. In the same years 29,670 were committed. to prison for offences against those laws. From these facts he felt authorized in calling on their Lordships to amend a sys tem which served as a nursery for crime. He would not then detain the House by going into the details of the Bill, which would be more properly considered on a future occasion. .... The Duke of WELLINGTON was opposed to the Bill brought in by the Noble Duke opposite, not because hr vas frvour..ble to the present system of game laws, but be cause he was convinced that no amendments which he had yer seen propo►ed would effect the objects which the Noble Duke hid in view. The Bill would do away with that principle of qualification which had been recognised in the country since the reign of Richard li. Hitherto property in land had been the basis of qualification, but the Bill now• before the House would give the qualification to any man who might take out a licence from the Commissioners of Assessed Taxes. The Bill wooed do away with the evil, which was in reality the breach of the law, ha , the law would still lie broken. Indeed, breaches of the law would he much more frequent, bee Luse the Bill would give increased faci lities for the s ile of the game. The preserving of game gives present e mpl. , yment to thousands of individugs; and what would those people do, if the gentlemen who employ them were to be deprived of that exclusive right which they had possessed for five hundred years, and which w recognised in every country in Europe except in France where, since the Revolution, it had been abolished ? The only penalty which the Bill allowed for shooting upon another man's ground, under a licence, was for trespass. How was that to he recovered from a temot, who had a right to go over the ground, the right killing pine be ingreserved il l rcd. old T n i o , e t p b e ei f he nratt tenant a l . c ty ov a e i r k""d ird fro l m 'ein only g for to the tenant in the ease which lie put, and li cence , the landlord could have no remedy against him for infriniting upon his reserved right. trespass, tll The of RICHMOND was und er st oo d t o say t h at the ioli Duke jccrion might be removed in the Commit eee , The Duke of WELLI NGTON said that it would be productive of great inconvenience that the Bill should come into operation on the 10th of October ; that is in the middle of the shooting season. Lord NVHARNCLI FEE had called the attent',;.a of the ti„ u se to that subject in that House tv;:,A; 1n the House of Commons ; and now he w:. t a sappy that the Government had at length cpenei. their eyes to the evils occasioned by the present Game Laws. If the alteration proposed %you'd not remove all the evils, it would at least prepare the way for their removal.—(Hear.) As long as there was pt - o, perty to he plundered, there would-also he thiens; and as l o na a , there was game there would tic y.oachers. But all that the Legislature could da was to put the laws on such a footing, that tlxre could be no su-picion of injustice, of partiality, or of monopoly on the part of the L. gislators, He objected to the principle of the Bill which saic',, tkat the game did not belong to the owner of Soil, but to him who held the land. The of that would be, that the landlord would ha - i:e - .. - . o power over nine.'entbs of the land he paKtessed, so far as the game on it was concerned, but would be quite at the mercy of his tenants. The custom, which had origin ited, perhaps, in a feeling of feudal re spect fir the landlord, arAd by which 4 was now always allowed to sport over his tenant's land, would be destroyed by this 1 . 1 . 11 1- Then, what was the punishment to the tenant, if he trespassed ? He was fined ; but he could not trespass on his own land. This was an extraordinary oversight in those who had drawn the Bill, but tht.; might be remedied in Committee; and he 1 - ..nderatood that the Bill was now to go thrnugh the COmmittee only pro forma Fle should not; therefore, oppose its doing so. The Earl of WESTMORLAND was opposed to the Bill —not because he thought the present lay; good-- 7 but, be cause he thought the Bill now introduced would make 'lie matter worse. 1 , Noble Lord, 04 Presenting g petition from a political Union, had . tuldtherSl:he other night, that 0: 1 . 2 4 House should tike care of its chat acter. He thought it would he almost entirely lost if this Bill was passed; for of all the acts of oppression of which he had heard, this was the worst. The principle of the ail'. was, to abolish all distinctions; but, by 0, - ,e way. in which it was framed, the gentlemen L - if the Political Union would be pre vented f. - •nra enjoying the sport, as well as the first Duke For, first there w as an o b struct i on i n the shape o f a 4n the land. Th ere was a Bill for them.—(A laugh. ) pretty heavy penalty for a licence, and then they could not stir a step beyond their Own grounds, w i thoutle i ng li a bl e to be taken to prison for trespassing. H e c ontended, that As 00 could enjoy the pleasures of sporting, if his lands onl' xtended over forty or fifty acres, th'a Bill would only IN n advantage to great landed proprietors. Lord SUFFIELD thought this Bill a great benefit; a•. 'y making game property, it would make the people uo ierstancl what they could nor comi.r...!.coti under the pre sent laws—that the illegal taktitz f ame was a crime He, therefore, gave his 'most hearty tlaoiks to the Govern. rent for introducing the measure. Those statutes whici Noble Lords spoke of as qualifying, were, in fact, disqua ifying, statutes ; for, before them, every man was entitle. shoot g !me. The present laws were dead letters, be ause tht y did not receive the support of public opinion l'he right of sporting might now be a matter of agreement tetween landlords and tenants, and both would be equalb trorected. He should heartily support the Bill. Lord TENTERDEN sail the present game laws wee had that he should he willing to support almost an: :lin that went to alter them.—(Hear, hear.) The Earl of CAERNARVON objected to some of tin letails of this Bill, though he should approve of it if it was ikely to identify with respect to game the legal and the "lora! offence. He should not oppose the Bill going pm, ' /I.rma through the Committee. Lord ELDON would not discuss it till it had been con sidered in Committee, after which he should be prepared to give his opinion upon it. The Duke of RICHMOND observed, that as the law now stood it was constantly violated, for there were many persons in the highest ranks of life who were not by lay. qualified to shoot game. Foreign Ambassadors were not nor were many Irish and Scotch Peers qualified as to Rog !and. Peers second sons were also unqualified, and yet all these persons were in the daily habit of violating the law ; he consequence of which was that offences against th. ,!tune laws were no where considered as crimes. He liked the trespass clause best of all in the Bill, for he thought that a tnan ought to be the acknowledged owner of his own land, so that he committed no nuisance upon his neighbour's. The Bill then went through a Committee, and was or dered to be recommitted on Wednesday. The Exchequer Bills' Bill went through a Committee. SPRING GUNS' BILL. On the motion of Lord MELBOURNE, the fiotar went into Committee on this Bill. The Earl of CAERNARVON moved that spring gun. might he placed upon lands with the permission of one Magistrate, instead of requiring the permission of two Magistrates in a Quarter Session, as the present terms of the Bill required. Lord MELBOURNE was understood not to object to the proposed amendment. Lord SUFFIELD observed that he had the honour to introduce the Bill for making the setting of spring-guns ill..gal, and that Bill had been debated three years before it passed into a law. It was a proof of the strong opinion he entertained o❑ this subject, when he consented even to the partial re-introduction of the use of spring-guns; but he did so with a view to check the offence of incendiarisin ; and though he deeply regretted the existence of such a ne cessity, he felt he was bound to act upon it. He should consent to the amendment. The LORD CHANCELLOR agreed that the amend. tnent should be adopted, especially with a view to secure the object just mentioned by his Noble Friend. If there vas a public permission to set spring-guns in certain places, and in those places only, the depredators would be warned to stay away front Bech places; but if they did not know where to expect the spring-guns, they would be more cautious where they ventured. The ann ndment was agreed to and the House resumed. The Charing-Cross Improvement Bill was read a first time. The Public Works' Bill went through a Committee. Adjourned at Half-past Eigl,t. SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. Our columns record the proceedings of the Livery of London yesterday, in refutation of the slander, so far as they were affected by ir, that the people of England were becoming indifferent to the cause of Reform. What would the Anti-Reformers more ? The slander was a pretence ; they did not believe it who uttered it,-.they could not think so lightly of the firmness and resolution of the people of England. But it is a slander that has not been without its use ; it has been, and will be, more than repelled by the generous ardour of those to tv l 4-IGat such caprice was imputed. Let the House cf Lords reflect that the zeal of which they see a apecinien in reading through the proceedings of the Livery is diffused through every free h .som in the intelligent population of this country, and then let them ask themselves what may be the effect of re• sisting a feeling so universal: We du not appeal to their fears. They might repel such an appeal in the con sciousness of their own courage and resolution. We appeal to their reason, their humanity : they being but few in comparison, cannot knoW better than all England what is befitting for England. It must be painful to them to disseminate sour discontent and disunion through the country. The only growl,' alleged for resistance to the measure was the new-sprung indifference of the people. This ground is now wholly taken away : the whole natiun is stirringly alive : the inference, therefore, is, obvious. The Lords will pass the Bill, and the country will be in unity with itself, and at peace.— Ti-,,;ea. The fall of Warsaw, st the date assigned to it, was for us (we confess our imperfect acquaintance with the lo calities) an event altogether unexpected. Hezzl, ;n London, the strongest manifestations of sytrTathy with the Poles have taken place. Grief, and indignation, and various other fine feelings, have dizpiayed themselves at both ex tremities of the eaidtai, and it is mighty well and prodi viausly creditable to the sensibility of the " feelers." But we should have had more respect fur them and their sen sations, had the latter been put into activity some conaths, or even some weeks, sooner. There were but two mod., whereby the people of this country could effectually have succoured the Poles. The first seas by compelling the Government to take strenuo t 4a measures, in concurrence with France, for * t heir safety from the atta c ks o f R uss i a. The second was by literal pecuniary subscriptions. Yet how has either of these proofs of regard been ex emplified ? When Colonel Evans brou g ht furveard his motion, and when a second tive.e he int..o duced the subject indirectly. with a view to obtain from his Majesty's Alinistere some indication of their purposes. or some st.4taatent of their acts already done, having Polish independence for their object, he not only in extracting a single syllable (Kau Lord Palmer ston, wh tiler in the form of (pinion or of narrative, fir the satisraction of liberal minds, but he actually could not prevail upon the Members of the Hon. Hour to Eaten to his arguments, however forcible,—to his complaints, how aver affecting, —or to his predictions, however mel,n choly,—so lit , le worthy of notice did the House of Com mons of England vinsider a question which involved the fate of an illustrious people, the fame and Loriour of this country, and the future eouilibritur, security, and repose of Europe! Again, when it v. , aa over and over again re commended that inste;ii - .g's should be held and money raised by voh,;r.tary contributions, or borrowed and re mitte;,4, to Warsaw, what did the gentlemen of the city contribute,—they who now, as we hear, are as deeply overwhelmed with sqrrow and compassion, ar.d all the rest of it, as if rt.a. , ,land " had a direct interost" in the mat ter? Why, do not these gentlemen know that England has a direct,-- e, axed a vitalmierest in the question, wh e th er 1 7 Russia shall or .hail not be aggrandized by a crime beaotttu dominion over 14,000,000 of .14 - olett? The . .. - Firnea has done its duty by inure th. , :,Q once pressing, in terms the most earnest and tr.4,:nt that it could command, a straightforward and v.reompromising interferenoe,—by diplomacy in tb, , ,-„iirst in.tance,—by other means if neces sary,,o-z behalf of Polish freedom. 'Thrice we have .lone so ; and as friends of peact, and us the best and only method of adjusting Europe upon pacific principla, we have invoked, as solemnly as men convinced of the recti tude of :heir own motives and the soundness of their jzzrigtnents could call, for any national measure, the inane, diate, and if all nther; expedients failed, the forcible inter position of British power for the assurance cf. liberty to Poland. Nor should we have interferp-i a!one; France was ready, if England but held tlt her finger. It is not bee.iuse the old Bonaparte `action have made most nclse upon this interesting subject, with perhaps no batter pur pose than they had in recommending that '.4lelgium should Ile s4itet),—it is not because they might have been as kna vish as they were importunate,--we are to imagine that the French generally Wt". 76 not, and. are not still, hiss; anxious c o :l ... l y ing- 6 since have postponed every xecon for the ind.,:paidence of the Poles. We ore satisfied that if the government of France lind been true to the national sentiment of that groat rountry, or worthy of its own higl k the conditions and means o f a joint and pereatvrly prohibition of fur ther assaults upon Pokiel; i4dependence by the Russian the most i.Theretnpir;..ainn. i. t:e an c !i 44 aff et e i e t t ie in ti g on s n ea e t i e o pa f Sa turdayp l ' i!e t t 7' ;o oti a ld se l t o tle ig ment with England of autocrat. But it I,s, ii/ita that the administration af Casi ve evet: mir Fo r i :; ,r 11.0 been ' unequal to any such hold, simple, and editor of that journa!, and entitled, ,;,Fated Eivt , e l a t i; s o t o i, : a : 1 ~ 1 e - --tad, communicated by the Polish A Circular f rom t h e Governrnent at Warsaw to its diplomatic a gents i n fore i gn countries," dated the 15th of August. This paper was W 1 itten in evident contem plation of the cr4el occurrence which the last three days have conveyed to us—the ultimate till of Warsaw. ' It WCA written under feellogs of profound and just resent ►•. a' tl.e unworthy treatment estiori..7-,1 les at the hands of 3lessrs. Casimir Perier and S - ebas t.t i. Their promises of active friendship to the patriots are ,erein detailed—their efforts to dissuade the Polish Go.. rninent from acting, under an assurance that their cause teen taken up with c.irdial sympathy by France ant E 'gland jointly,—and that if they could continue to hold , tit. for a very short time, the independence of their country ..ould he secured. They did hold out far beyond the time irefixed, and where is the promised "independence?" It is grievous to us 'to state, that in this melancholy document ire to be found allegations little less discreditable to :Inn -tier Government than to that of France. Far be it from is to volunteer any wanton reflections upon the British ;linistry ; but our duty, though a painful one, must tie ieeforined. If, therefore, Lord Grey and his colleagues iiean to offer no defence against the charges,—amounting lmost to tteacherY, but extending far beyond that of eartlessness, as relates to Poland,—we must adin't, and he country will agree with us, that the circular is a lamning despatch. England is accused, in imprevari ating language, of having encouraged the Poles by as •iiranees of sympathy with their cause,—of having made :ire of them for promoting the speedy settlement of lie affairs of Belgium, as an immediate step towards elgaglng seriou-ly in an effort on behalf of Polish fri.eclum, ind of having to the last fed and stimulated those illusive. 'lopes of English interference, which united with thoic, • proceeding from France, hid restrained the Poles from military enterprises which might have early interritp!ed, perhaps defeated, the plans of Paskewitach. These are tire iriful charges —we trust, nay, we are sure, they will lie disproved.' But there is another 'charge which cannot be bsproved either by the Government of France or that of Britain ; it is that of having done nothing which became my resolute or high-minded statesman, on this great occa 'am, when the boldest po icy would manfestly have hen the most provident and enlightened. Talk of mlintaininz peace! Why, it is truly and powerfully stated by the authors of the Warsaw " Circular," that it . wait the Jorions but deserted Polish patriots who really shielded, by their resistance to the Muscovites, the whole west of Europe from war. It is affirmed that the tact is most prob Ode that the insurrection of Warsaw, and nothing else obtained for Louis Philippe the slow, repugnant, anti angracious acknowledgement of Nicholas—that Belgic freedom was recognized only because Poland was in arms. tnd that the Russian troops which have been so long de tained, and flame to severely suffered on the Vistula, were triginally in toll march for the Rhine! We can allow its full merit to the brilliant, and we arc sure quite unaffected, declamation of Lord Brougham, against the impoliey of that Minister who would " plunge the British empire into tsar." But the war alluded to by the learned Lord war in unnecessary war—a wanton war —a, criminal war,—a war for enabling the virtuous Miguel to commit wrongs upon France with impunity. We take for granted that Lord Brougham could not have condemned a war in self defence, or in that of Europe, agaicet the design!, of th e Russian Goverument, to pave a road iuto Germany with Polish corpses, that it might give law at the bayonet's point to all these western elates. We say again, that a bold policy on the part of Francs and England wound have established Polish independence, and ensured the continu ance of that peace which is now more precarious teen perhaps at any filmier moment : but it is not the first tine that male or female intriguers in the confidence of the Russian Court have helped to weigh down the hopes and better fortunes of humanity. At the same time, let it be distinctly understood, that nothing wise, or noble, or ge nerous can be looked for from French interference, if it he undertaken in the spirit of the Bonaparte faction, whose master had often the destinies of Poland in his hand, an as often selfishly and basely sold.them.— The City of Dublin has been fit st in the field to pe tition the House of Lords to pass the Reform Bill. On Friday last there was a meeting in the Circular Hall at the Royal Exchange, numerously attended, with the Lord flavor in the Chair. The report of the proceedings oc cupies five columns of the Dettlix Morning Register. Many of the speeches were excellent, and the enthusiasm in favour of the measure was overpowering. Yestetelay was the fa-st great movement in this metropolis. Our readers will find a report of the proceedings of the Livery in another column. The first resolution was moved by Mr, Dillon, of the house of Messrs. Monson and Cu., who made a powerful speech on the occasion, which lie concluded by saltine— " Would the enemies of Reform undertake for the peace of the Country, the continuance of trade, the prosperity of conunerce. or the stability of public credit ? He, as a tradesman, declared tbe another paid if and a the Bill more w importanteywere lo t. question they would not be able to m a i n t a i n one of these, if they refused to pa s t h a e t. Bill.-Cheers)ose. ld the e. But.x (Loud cheer.) Who was to 13x and demand the taxes ? Would the peon):, pay taxes levied by the sixty condemned representa lives eschedule A, or by the half-crippled representatives of s u c i l rev i itte % ; h9 it, ' e t y h nlts i ?. u gyVi c tUe rn ia:zse ha o d f V:;;;;ZeZ, 1 ;11' the chapel at Newgate, a condemned pew, to separate the con demned malefactors from the rest of the community.—(Continuer) cheering and laughter.) They could net revive the dead ; and were not Gatton, Boroughbridge, and Old Sarum dead ? The lightning of corruption had extinguished them, and they could bear neither freilt nor flower." Mr. Williams, of Watling-street, who seconded the first resolution, observed, that it had been asked What will the Lords do ?' Ii their understandings were net stricken with total blindness, they would pass the Bill ; if they expected to enjoy their present wealth and honours, they would pass the Bill, and that speedily, for, in the present state of public anxiety, any great delay would throw the whole country into confusion." Mr. Williams alluded to the danger from forcing the people to view the Lords as theie enemy—'• Let the Lords, toe, consider (Ise added) rasa, would pay taxes if the Bill was not passed,—(Hear, hear)—whra the House of Commons had declared itself, as at present chosen, not representing the people of Eng land, All the authorities of our country stated, that obe dience to the laws was required of the people only because they were present in the persons of their representaives when the laws which taxed theta were passed." Let their Lordship only ask themselves, how, in a country poseeseirtz every where men equally well informei with the hest of themselves, and far better able to give expression to their views in clear and forcible language (for there are not a dozen men in the House of Lords able to express themselves as well as these tradesmen), they can hope to reconcile the people to the usurp ttion by their Lordships of all the powers of the Constitution? They should take a warning in time, especially when they thus seethe attraction wlaice the non payment of taxes seems to have for the people. These are most ominous allusions. Let the tilled paupers of the nation bethink themselves of the homely proverb, that " half a loaf is better then no bread." Colonel Terrens, in thieving the petition, forcibly observed, " The borough ' mongers tell us that we are about to perpetrate borough robbery ; now let us consider that ; they say it is their property to return a majority of the Members to the House of Commons, New a majority of the House of Coininiins has the power of taking money out of your pockets, has the power of making laws which shall affect your lives—therefore, it the power of returning a inajerity to the House of Commons be the property of the boroughutongers, then your lives and properties also are tit* properties of the borimehmongers. Now if their argument be worth a farthing, the people of Lug/and are no better than negro slaves. Such insolence ! what time. they must be !' Mr. Charles Pear-on exposed. tl e inconsistency of those who opposed the giving pledges to constituenta on such a question as the Reform Bill, and yet approved of Members of the other House residing in France and Italy, systematically voting on anpuetent ques tions by proxy, without hearing the debate at all. His explanation of the circumstances which oceasi Intel the d eionfell of the Lords in the reign of Charles the First is well deserving of the atten ion of the Peen of the present day. From the result of yester‘y's proceedings, t ie Anti- Reformers may see will what truth they presumed to libel the people of England, as no longer anxious for the Re form Bill —.Menlo CAroniels. We more than once stated that the reduction of Poland would, in :ell probability, be the end of the reign of Louis Philip; and we are much mistaken if the aspect of affairs at Peels do not now lend to a change of Government. The French are greatly incensed that the Poles, who, by their rising, enabled them to give consistency to their revolution, and place themselves on a footing of equality with the military Powers, have been rather injured than aided by the Government of Louis Philip. Tne rapers are, however, unjust towards the Government. The French and English could not have prevented the military opera tioze of Russia by anything short of a war ; and the Poles tnust, in the long run, have been overpowered without a warlike interventiop in their favour. We need hardly observe that diplomacy is always unavailing in matters of consequence. When the Holy Alliance determined that the French should invade Sjiain to put down the Constitution, the remonstrances of Eng land were Laughed to acorn, it having been well known that England would proceed no farther than words. It is aiteatlifrerent thing to send a fleet into the Scheldt or into the Tagus, to bully small Powers, and to commit a :si ed sti t Z tee a war with first-rate Powers. France c°mlP"oland, unpardonable fault of suffering the first partition . of ea and the evil cannot now be remedied wiehouthaarti since t er war. tee or England, we grieve t r n e;s aY f ' or t obs either Peace of Utrecht, all our wars have ; t ry German quarrels. disgraceful to us. as a nation„ " n tr Pa our enormous debt of W e have not the eonsaletoietse : ree d in any such noble cause, reflecting, that it has bre w fos'est blot on modern hiateen as the prevent's , . 0- . sof Poland. Wars aga ins t A carry the successive n axii4jen t tA y a been the only wars - 4s, 4hic4, in both lagaisiTheres - ~