The Sun. — London, England, 1861-07-06 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY. The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. CIIUR.CII RATES. The -Archbishop of YORK presented a petition from Scar borough against the abolition of church rates. • CONSOLIDATION OF STATUTES. In reply to some observations by Lord BROUGHAM and ether noble lords, _ vY The LORD CHANCELLOR entered into some ex planations relative to the bills that had been introduced into Parliament on this subject, and expressed a hope that it wonl I be passed this session. Lord BROUGHAM expressed a similar hope. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Stockton and Darlington Railway (Capital), Bir mingham Improvement, Margate Railway (Ramsgate Ex tension, &c.), and St. George's Harbour Bills were read a second time. The Stockport, Timperley, and Altrincham Junction Railway Bills were read a third time and passed. INDIA. The Earl of SHAFTESBURY moved "That an humble address be presented to her Majesty, to assure her Majesty that this house has regarded with great satisfaction the progress of public works in various parts of India ; and to beseech her Majesty that, with a view to confer fur ther benefits on that country, she will be pleased to take into her immediate and serious consideration the best means of extending throughout it, as widely as pos sible, the best systems of irrigation and internal navi gation." The noble earl said the subject was one that had latterly been much discussed, and there were two cir cumstances which at the present time gave it a peculiar importance : the famine which had desolated so large a pot - - Lion of India, and the troubles in the United States, which had threatened so large a portion of our cotton supply. The famine unmistakably proved the defect of our present sys tem of irrigation in India, and the American revolution showed the great hazard to which we exposed ourselves in depending entirely upon a single source of supply. A de fective supply this year might lead to one equally defective next year, and we must not forgot there were now not less than 4,000,000 or 5,000,000 of our fellow-countrymen de pendent upon our manufactures in cotton. It was not his intention to put forward India as a single source of supply ; but while recognising the West African and West Indian fields, it appeared to him that India had a special claim to attention. The two great wants of the country were irriga tion and inland navigation—irrigation for the purpose of fertilising the soil, inland navigation :for the purpose of carrying off its produce. And these ought always to go together, because for want of nrvigable canals it had often happened that abundance in a particular .district had proved rather a burden than otherwise. He did not, how ever, propose canals in any spirit of antagonism to railways ; on the contrary, he was satisfied that the more they deve loped the resources of the country the more likely the rail ways of India would be to prove remunerative. The system of irrigation was peculiarly adapted to the conformation of the country, and it had prevailed for many centuries under the native princes, who had carried it out upon a very large scale. At a very early date those princes had became per fectly alive to the necessities of their country and to the true mode of meeting them. In proof of that he need only refer to the report of 1853 upon public works in Madras,in which he found the following passage :—" The mere mention of the number of works (executed under native princes) would give no just idea respecting them, as they vary so greatly in size and value; but we may notice tanks and channels in 14 of the chief Ryotwar irrigated districts." Of these there were 43,000 in repair and 10,000 out of repair. The esti mated amount of capital invested in their construction had been very little less than 15 millions sterling. The report proceeded :—" An examination of this list of works suggests humiliating reflections. The ancient rulers of the country, with resources of science and skill unmeasurably inferior to what we can command, raised those numberless magnifi cent and valuable works. They are due to the enlightened intelligence of princes whom we are accustomed to style barbarians." Irrigation by means of the river water had moreover a special value ; for as Dr. Watson, in his admirable lecture on cotton in India,had observed, " Irrigation is essen tial, not merely as bringing water but also organic matter, and certain though small quantities of salts,such as gypsum and common salt." In considering the water system of India they must remember that the country suffered not only from excess but from deficiency—from deluges as well as from drought. What therefore was wanted was the means of storing up the flood water, and then in the dry season letting it flew in fertilising streams over each district. As to inland navigation, he need only remind their lordships that it was by using its natural means of internal communication that America had made those rapid strides which were the won der of the present age. (Hear, hear.) But India had ad vantages which America had not, for its rivers might be made navigable for the whole of the year, whereas the American ones, in consequence of the cold, only enjoyed that advantage for nine months. Water carriage, too, was the most easy of construction, the cheapest to keep in repair, and the best adapted for carrying heavy burdens. It, more over,charged the lowest tolls and yielded the largest revenue. With all these advantages what use had they made of them? The same report said—" In general it may be affirmed that the greater part of the flood-waters of our rivers are turned to no account, and vast bodies of water flow annually to the sea which might be made use of to fertilise hundreds of thousands of acres, to feed a vast population, and add enor mously both to the wealth of the people and the revenue of the Government." The report proceeded to say, " Still less use (this remark, though made on native princes, is equally applicable to the British Government) was made of the canals of irrigation, though many of them were well adapted for water carriage during 6or 8 months of the year." From the defect of water communication had arisen the greater part of the evils that afflicted India—its famines, its pesti lences, its fevers, and all its consequent suffering. It was impossible to have a stronger proof of that than what had taken place in respect of the Great Ganges Canal. The Great Ganges Canal ran through a district particularly in need of the agency of water. When the canal was first constructed it was left unfinished; the distributing channels were not touched at all, and the consequence was that the canal was quoted as a strong proof against canal navigation in India. But what was the present state of things ? Mr. T. Moss, the assistant secretary to the government of the North-Western Provinces, said, "The beneficial effect of the canal during the first season cannot be over•estimated ;" and Captain Turnbull, the Superintendent-General of Irrigation, states that, " Had there been no canal there would have been no crop on broad lands which are now covered with wheat and other cereals in large abundance." According to a rough calculation 339,243,8401b5. of grain have thus been supplied to the market during the recent calamitous season, and as each pound is an ample quantity for one man daily, this would be equal to the maintenance of 644,718 men and 464,718 women and children for a whole year, while it will also have produced fodder sufficient to keep from starvation the cattle of the districts through which the canal has passed, and has probably saved the Government from mak ing remissions of land revenue to the amount of £lBO,OOO or ,-C200,000. Ile added, "It cannot fail to produce 'a very great impression on the minds of the people, who will thus have been saved from starvation and misery, and to make them happy and contented?' Could it be wondered at that the Lieutenant-Governor should have appended this re mark, " His honour feels sure that it will be both p olic y and good economy to push oat this magnificent work to completion with the utmost vigour, even though at the risk of some present financial inconvenience." This was an instance of a country which needed irrigation, and where they saw the results of it. But the greatest of all triumphs had been effected by the opening up of the district of Raja mundry, in the delta of the Godavera., the wonderful work of Sir Arthur Cotton, the result of which had been that the revenue increased upon last year, 1860, £45,000. The ex ports were £500,000, being an increase of £lBO,OOO ; the bullion imported by those people, who had been the most impoverished people in India, amounted to £190,000; the revenue increased £175,000, being an increase of 90 per cent., on what it was before'the works began, and the profit on the expenditure was 40 per cent. The boats on the canal to seaport in 1852 and 1853 were 752; and in 1862, a period of only eight years, they had increased to 15,000 : and the tonnage cf each boat on an average was twofold greater than that of the boats used formerly. Here was a let ter just received from that district :—" Nothing is more probable than that this tract of country may this very year be visited with famine for want of those works ; as it is, even at this moment, a great part of the Madras Presidency is on the very verge of famine ; rice is selling at a penny a pound, from two to three times its ordinary price, indicating most terrible sufferings among the poor. In Rajahmundry, on the other hand, where irrigation works are in operation, the price is just half what it is in other districts, and while the people are entirely free from all such pressure, they ate ex porting probably more than 80,000 tons this year to relieve the suffering provinces." In Appendix Zto those papers of 1853 there was the following statement of results for 14 years, from 1835 to 1849, of expenditure on irrigation works: —The number of places was 39. On one point the profits were 77 per cent. ; on another, 91 per cent. ; on another, 197 per cent ; on another, 2:59 per cent. ; and the average profits on the whcle were 691 per cent. If those results wore brought dew to the present day he believed they would be much larger. On the other hand let them see the effect of neglect and of omission to construct th..so works. He would take the district of Guntoor, which had an area of 4,700 square miles, ,and which l ay on the south bank of the Kistnah J. he r eport alluding to the state of things in 1852, said :—", The la rge number of ruined t a nks in all parts of the country indic a t e tha t formerly th e ex t ent o f i rr i ga t e d land was considerable; at present it is only 4 per cent. of the total cultivation." Durin g left 2co the o oo district, andtotal there emany persons. loss to zbzn the dain m starvationrfa i andfamine fever s i. rYots, and Govern ment w as estimated at above t wo millions by ns the e te . Wh o at f ofpithie c state i n of was the condition of Guntoor wor:is ? Mr. Bourdillon said, ape a ki ng the district in 1861, " The works on the Kistnah were sus pended by the mutiny , and works of distributi on very partially executed. You ask whether Gunther is more safe from famine than it used to be. No doubt it is, because two talooks are partially watered from the Kistnah. The dams are complete, but the channels for them are wanting, though the cost would be small, andthe an outlay of £21,738 the Government have received a clear gain of 4412,052 in sixteen years, or a profit of 118 per cent. per annum." Here were some of the great works of that eminent engineer, Sir Arthur Cotton. He had heard it said that Sir A. Cotton's works always exceeded the estimate ; but if that were so, the almost fabulous profits which they produced ought to exempt him from any re proach on the subject. The Marquis of Dalhousie, in a de spatch, said—" Everywhere I found evidence of the won derful effect produced by irrigation, wherever the means could be obtained ; everywhere I found lands of vast extent, fertile properties now lying comparatively waste, but want ing only water to convert them into plains of the richest cultivation, and everywhere I found amongst the people the keenest anxiety to be supplied with that by which alone the public delivered v works ered o in 1859, they could be enabled to turn their labour to good account. Again, Lord said—" With ordSta it nl h e r y e 7 g il a to speech have seen some doubt expressed whether the returns from these works were accurately given. I have since gone through the figures and verified them from official docu ments, and I find they are strictly accurate." The Hon. W. Elliot, member of council, Madras, said, on March 18, 1850 In irrigation works the physical impediments are gene rally few and easily met, the returns aro sure, always con siderable, often immense; they have increased the wealth of the inhabitants in a remarkable degree ; and with pro. perty the people have acquired habits of independence, a desire for knowledge, and for the extension of usefulness of every description." The following was the opinion of Sir C. Trevelyan in Oct., 1859—" Works of irrigation create new value by an immediate and positive process with a pro fusion of which there is no other example. They add from three to six fold to the annual productiveness of the land. This is better than the annexation of new territory. The natives are encouraged to a life of peaceful industry." In that way a very large addition might be made to the re revenue without pressing upon the people, while the people themselves would have their condition greatly im proved, and be enabled to become great consumers of British produce. There could also be no doubt that, politically, these works would be of the greatest import ance, because what added to the happiness and content ment of the people would give security to the govern ment. When the famine broke out this country made large contributions with the object of relieving the distress it oc casioned, and it was right and humane so to do ; but if an equivalent sum had been expended on those works, that famine would have been obviated, and the country perhaps rendered safe against a similar calamity for generations to come. By the seizure of that empire we had taken upon ourselves all the responsibility, and at the same time taken from the people all means of improving their own financial position or of regulating their own affairs ; and above all we owed the performance of this duty in gratitude and obedience to Almighty God, who had been pleased to place under the protection of Queen Victoria the most magnificent empire to be found in the annals of the world. The noble earl con cluded by moving the address in the terms of his motion. addition to the revenue immediate." But it was also quite necessary to show the necessity of attending to the distri bution of water with a view to the prevention of floods, as by neglect of water distribution in Cuttack in 23 years there had been seven years of inundation and two of severe inun dation, and in 1855 one flood of the Ganges destroyed no less than 22,000 houses, 8,000 persons, 40,000 cattle, 20,000 acres of crops worth £320,000. That brought him to the Godavery, and this was the report of Capt. Haigh—" The valley of the Godavery has an area of 130,000 square miles, or about four times as large as Ireland. The population was estimated at about eight millions. This valley alone contained a larger cotton field than America. America had but four millions of acres (about the area of Yorkshire) under cultivation of cot ton. The products were various and abundant—wheat, un surpassed in India, Indian corn, millet, peas, beans, rice, sugar, hemp, oil seeds, chillies, safflower, and two of espe cial value, flax and cotton. But this country was com pletely blocked up by the want of roads or canals. The time of conveyance on the backs of bullocks, which was the only mode by which produce could be conveyed to Bombay or Calcutta, occupied two months, and the cost per ton was 160 s. "The river," says Captain Haigh, "runs for 100 miles through the finest cotton fields of India, and may be said to direct its course in a very direct line from the chief cotton centre to Coringa, the best and safest port on the eastern coast." "The river," said another authority, " with numberless tributaries, may one day become the Mississippi of the Sudo." Now, the estimated cost torender navigable 472 miles, at £6lB per mile, was £292,000 ; to render ii still cheaper for carriage, £360,000. By the expen diture of that sum, the time of conveyance would be reduced to eight days, and the cost per ton to twenty-four shillings. When they saw that that would be the result both to India And England he thought there could be little hesitation in incurring the expenditure necessary for opening up such a field for the cultivation of cotton. But while he was speaking of the Godavery, and the great advantages that would accrue by rendering that river navigable, there was another point of view, and that was its value as a military work. Colonel Balfour, Inspector-General of Ordnance, observed " on the large pecuniary saving which will ensue not only in the conveyance of stores, but in the preservation of human life, by reducing the risks that now attend oar soldiery during long marches." He adds most truly, " European lives in India are now more valuable than ever. The march from Masulipatam to Nagpore is very circuitous, and traverses one of the most notoriously deadly jungles in India. The march now occupies, I believe, a month and a half. It might be reduced to seven days by the river." But besides the relief to the men it should be remembered that on that line the transport of stores and cart hire alone amounted to £lB,OOO per annum. There was another point which materially affected the welfare of the people of India and the revenue of the country. The article of salt was a Government monopoly in India, but the pressure on the natives arose not from the price charged at the place of manufacture, but from the difficulty of trans port from the place of manufacture to the interior of the country. The Indian Government by its monopoly clears on every pound of salt 2d. Wherever it was cheap, that was at a small advance on the cost at the pans, the people consumed per head annually 201 b. The price of salt in Nagpore, Berar, and generally throughout the Deccan, was £B, 17,110, and even £l6 per ton. The consequence was that the consumption did not exceed per head 81b. Now the cost at the pans was raised by defect of transport from three to six fold. The opening of water carriage of the Godavery would reduce it to less than one-fourth ; and the result of that would be at a very moderate com putation, that the Government revenue would be in creased by £64,000 a year in that district alone ; the whole interest and maintenance of the works necessary to produce this result not exceeding £lB,OOO a year. It wos doubted whether India had great capacity for pro ducing cotton ; but a high authority said that " as much cotton is wasted in India as is grown in America." The number of acres of cotton under cultivation was estimated at no less than 24,000,000. The number of people, from the Himalayas to Cape Comorin, who were clothed in cotton, was estimated at no less than 200,000,000. Then observe to what purposes cotton was turned in India. It was used for ropes, tents, saddles, stuffing, carpets, and textile fabrics generally. Guzerat alone, this year, would give, though hardly a hundredth part of India, perhaps one-third of the ordinary supply from America. But this was owing to Guzerat having the convenient port of Surat. These were facts as to quantity ; and there could be very little doubt as to the quality of the cotton which India was capable of producing. He had spoken on the subject to Mr. Bazley, the member for Manchester, who was a great cotton spinner, and a high authority on the subject. He said that Indian cotton was equal, with all its imperfections, even now to 75 per cent. of what is required for our own use. He would next ask what chance there was of India being able to produce the finest quantity of cotton to compete with that of America. Dr. Forbes Watson, the inspector of Indian products, stated that " in Dharwar the cultivation of American cotton is increasing at the rate of from 30,000 to 40,000 acres a year ;" and that " the acreage last year under this kind of cotton was 180,000, and is now equal to the New Orleans cotton." With regard to flax imported from India to this country the sample of last year was valued at £64 per ton. The Punjaub and other districts exceeded even Russia in capability to produce this article. It was important to observe, with regard to cotton, that it was not a question of new cultivation and of the necessity of introducing seed and instructing the people. On the contrary, cotton had been cultivated for several centuries in that country, and the cultivation of it was an occupation with which the people had long been familiar. All that they now required was that they should have roads, canals, or other means of transit ; and if those advantages were con ferred upon India he believed she would give us a supply of cotton exceeding what could be worked up in this country. Until, however, those facilities were given, the up told riches of India would remain locked up and useless. Again as to the article of jute, we imported from India in 1841 only 3,000 tons; but in 1859 we imported 53,000. Of wool, our importations from India in 1852 was five million pounds; but a great demand bad arisen in the last eight years, and the quantity imported in 1860 was upwards of 20 million pounds—the greater part of which was brought on camels' backs for shipment, from distances varying from 200 to 600 miles. lie now came to the article of linseed. Down to 1851 the largest quantity imported in any one year was 6,000 tons ; in 1854, the quantity was 35,988 tons ; in 1855, owing to the Russian war, it was increased to 66,687 tons ; in 1859, it was 96,000 tons, or nearly equal to the supply from Russia and all other countries. If the Russian war had done so much for the produce of linseed, what might not tho American revolution be expected to do for that of cotton? It would relieve us from the hazard and annoyance of relying on a single producing country, but chiefly from that incubus which weighed on the hearts of hundreds of thousands—namely, the necessity of purchasing and work ing up slave-grown cotton. The cotton grown in India would be that of free labour; and he believed that its im portation to this country would do more to put an end to slavery in America than almost anything else they could do. Now, as to the capability of India to consume cotton menu factured goods and other articles of British manufacture. In 1851 the value of cotton manufactures (including Irish and yarn) imported :into India from Great Britain was £5,220,194, and of other articles £2,022,000, making a total of £7,242,191. The proportion, in reference to the rest of the world, of British cotton manufactures taken by India was 18 per cent. In 1859 the value of cotton manufactures taken by India from Great Britain was £14,713,812, and of other articles £5,131,108, making a total of £19,844,920. All this wonderful :progress had been made in spite of war and mutiny and other difficulties, and India was now very nearly on the point of becoming our best customers. It had been said by some that the people of India were listless and idle and only fit to be governed despotically. In answer to that he would only refer to the stimulus which the prospect of gain or self-interest gave to the people. In the Dharwar, which was the great cotton field in India for the produc tion of American cotton, "saw gins" had been largely introduced for cleansing the cotton. So great was the demand for the se mac hi nes t h at the government of India o manufactured, eeann purchased x a p l t eh h uy o d u tehd g ehbrtyyhoe the cost ohs natives, t r ei from £ll ul,mvlhht who were. r£73.le6ree Therea c h , t send an age n t t o t hi s country to have them d the had already ywere b ac cused of being idle an d li stless and incapables of being sti mulate"d by the p ros p ect of " gain, a tine(' of £12,000 upon these saw gins. The a ver age yearly sum now paid by them under this head was £2,500. The natives were really a people of most active commer c i a l h abits, and would carry their produce on their heads hundreds and even thousands of miles for sale, and if they could only make a profit of a few rupees they would think nothing of their trouble, and be perfectly satisfied. With respect to th e cultivation of cotton, there could be no doubt that if the people had only a certain prospect of a reason able and speedy profit, there was no amount of effort they would not cheerfully make. In that way they would g e t rid of the practice of the Government making advances, than which nothing could be more objectionable, as it made the ryot depend upon others, and took away his indepen dence and self-respect. Ile could not conclude without bringing before their lordships the great advantages which resulted from works of irrigation in India. By way of illus tration he would compare the districts of Cuttack and Tanjore, both of which were about the same size, and situated in the deltas of great rivers, Cut tack in that of the Maharuddy, and Tanjore, in that of the Cauvery. Both were also of about equal fertility. The revenue from Cuttack was £85,000, and from Tanjore £170,000. The land in Cuttack was worth 30s. per acre, but in Tanjore it was worth £5. Cuttack had by far the best natural supply of water, yet in 23 years there were three years of famine, four of drought, seven of inundation, two of severe inundation, and only seven of moderate sea sons. During this period there was expended yearly in Cuttack on waterworks, £2,400, and in Tanjore, £11,600. The aggregate excess of revenue frcm Tanjore over Cut tack, in 23 years, was therefore £6,970,000. Here was the report of the Madras I; oard of Revenue, who were not par tial to the irrigation works of Sir Arthur Cotton, to the Madras Government in 1859: "The board now approach the third branch of the subject, the cost of the two Coleron anicuts, and the net amount of revenue which they have yielded to the State. The sums expended on these works, and the percentage which the net profit yielded by them bears to the original outlay, underwent careful scrutiny by the Department of Public Works and the Mahramut com missioners, and the result at which they arrived; after ezamining the bills and revenue statements was that for Lord DE GREY and RIPON said their lordships must have listened with the greatest attention to the able, elo quent, and forcible speech made by the noble earl who had just sat down, and he could assure the noble lord that if he arose to follow him it was with no intention of contesting the principles which he had enunciated. He entirely can curred in all the noble lord had stated as to the importance of these works of irrigation and internal communication. They were of the first importance to the people of that country. He was glad to find that his noble friend had not been led, by the great attention he had paid to the subject, to enter into any hostile proceedings against the Indian Government either of this or of former years. He had the satisfaction of saying that, although much remained to be done in the direction pointed out by the noble earl, yet be believed that at no time in the previous history of India had the Government of that country been more fully alive to the vast importance of the subject than at present. Their lordships were aware that the works of irrigation which had been in progress were of necessity suspended during the late mutiny. Since its termination the Government had set themselves heartily to work in taking up this question, and they were as convinced as the noble earl himself that they owed it to the people of India to devote themselves to the development of works of this description. He did not think that he could convey to their lordships a better idea of the spirit by which the Go vernment of India was actuated in reference to this question than by referring to the speech of Mr. Laing in proposing his budget before the Legislative Council at Calcutta. Mr. Laing, speaking of the expenditure upon public works, said that the vote showed an increase instead of a reduction. The vote for the year 1861-2 was £3,121,129, as compared with £2,897,671 for the year 1860-1. The whole expendi ture upon public works for the year 1861-2 would be about £500,000, and of that sum a large proportion would go to the making of roads. In addition to this the Indian Go vernment intended to spend more money i n th e cons t ruc ti on I of canals, and especially in developing those works of irri gation in connexion with the canals which had proved themselves to be of such great value. (Hear, hear.) That was the spirit in which Mr. Laing stated it was intended by the Indian Government to proceed in the matter during the present year. Since the delivery of that speech it had been his (the noble earl's) official:duty to go carefully over the budget orders, as they were called, of the Gover nor-General of India, and he could assure their lordships that he had risen from their perusal with the strongest con viction that the endeavour of the central Government had been to stimulate all the local and provincial Governments of that country to devote their energies to the carrying out public works of this description. He might add an impor tant statement—namely, that the sum to be devoted to pub lic works this year would be applied almost exclusively to civil and industrial works. The sum for military works, such as barracks, would be diminished as compared with the vote of former years, while there would be a conside rable increase in the amount allotted to the kind of works referred to by the noble earl. Ought of £1,500,000 which it was intended to spend during the present year, no less than £1,400,000 would be devoted exclusively to carrying out works of irrigation, and the improvement of internal communication whether by water or by land. That sum, however, did not entirely represent the whole of the money which he believed would be devoted by the Indian Govern ment to this purposeduring the present year. His noble friend had referred to the great results which had followed the completion of the works in connexion with the Ganges canal. However much the English Government in India might have fallen short in some respects, nevertheless he was sure their lordships would admit that the works of that canal would always form a monument of the liberal spirit of the British Government. (Hear, hear.) At the same time the full benefit of that canal would not be derived until the smaller distributory canals in connexion with it were completed ; and the Government of India, being fully aware of that fact, had set aside a larger sum for the com pletion of those tributary canals. That amount, how ever, would be limited by the fact that these works in volved the employment of a large proportion of skilled and engineering labour, which it was difficult to command upon a large scale in India. But to the fullest extent that the Government could secure the services of skilled engineers these distributory canals would be proceeded with, so as to give the whole of the surrounding country a participation in the benefits and advantages of the canals. The noble earl had referred to the famine as a proof of the necessity for such works, in which observation he (the noble lord) ex pressed his entire concurrence, but he was happy to say that although the sufferings of the people in various parts of India had been very great, yet all information tended to show that, as compared with the famine of 1837, the people were in a much better condition now than they were at that time. During the late famine there had been a vast amount of emigration from the affected districts to those in a more prosperous part of the country. That emigration had been to a great extent spontaneous on the part of the people, and it was so far gratifying, as it showed intelligence, and a ' disposition. to exert themselves to meet difficulties of that description. The noble earl had also touched upon another question, namely, the works upon the Godavery. Un fortunately it had been found necessary to suspend those works at the latter end of last year, in consequence of the sum of money granted by the Govern ment not being sufficient for the purpose. But the Govern ment had this year allotted a very considerable sum to carry on those works. With regard to the views expressed by the noble earl on this matter, he (Earl de Grey and Ripon) should be the last person to contest the importance of opening up the district by means of these works. Every thing tending to connect the whole district directly with the river must be most advantageous ; but the province of Behar would be most immediately benefitted by the com pletion of the railway from Nagpoor, which he trusted would be made within the next two years, and thus give a direct and speedy communication with Bombay. The noble earl, in his speech, did not make any specific recommenda • tion as to the mode in which these works of irrigation and internal communication ought to be pressed forward. Ho c t\bv o hyi u et l hh d Gi ts a oh s vme s e u oor n r tt i e homen h er i nt s ot n c o t oobnl claims v e r upon f iyp r s i oet e: met d o h money d h emye a a. t the Indian Government had all o tt e d f or such a service during the present year the largest sum they could be expected to allot consistently that at t ht h e e i t n m o ol b vn l u e esy earltmh market rk dutye intended for of the completion of these works he really must say that he differed with the noble earl in that view of the matter. Their lordships were well aware that the Government had under taken to guarantee five per cent. on all moneys expended in the construction of railways in India. Until those railways were completed the Gcvernment had no means of repaying themselves for the interest thus given, and it was therefore their first duty, in order to relieve the Indian Exchequer from this'burden, to complete the railways as quickly as pos sible. A loan of four millions had been authorised by the other house of Parliament for that purpose, and altogether about eight or ten millions would be expended upon Indian railways in the course of the present year by the railway companies and by the Government. lie believed there was w ve o ry uld g b r great a a t bo tdoubto sparewh e whether larger the g er summo n for ey marketsuch purposes. of t hi As s country re garded the importance of the question which the noble earl had laid before their lordships, there could be no differ ence r o l f rds opinion, hips that h and t he eG could uveru a m s assure w e his ere noblefully a fl u i d e friendand ly their determined to carry out these works to the utmost extent the means at their disposal would allow. He trusted, there fore, the noble earl would consider his object had been gained by the statement of his views upon the subject, and by the assurances which he had given on the part of the THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY EVENING, JULY 6, 1861, Government, and that under the circumstances he would not think it necessary to ask the house to agree to the motion. (Hear, hear.) Lord LYVEDEN regretted that the expenditure upon the public works in India was to proceed by driblets, as Government had now a great opportunity of winning the confidence and loyalty of the people of India. He was bound to say that the people of India believed the Court of Directors of the East India Company had not urged on the construction of public works with that vigour which was desirable, and in that belief it was natural they should look to the Government for a different system, and it was im politic to disappoint them. The money could be raised either by loans or by companies, He was not himself a friend to the principle of Government guarantees to private companies, but as the people of India themselves would not help them, he felt that joint-stock companies, incorporated to carry out large public works in India, should meet with every encouragement from the Government, who should, as stated by Sir A. Cotton, inspect but not interfere with their proceedings. Lori OVERSTONE said he also concurred with the noble earl as to the importance of the works to which he had alluded, but the question they had to consider was, how far it was safe to burden the resources of the country for their execution. He did not see from what source the funds for them was to be derived, for Indian credit was already pledged to a sufficient extent. He be lieved there could be companies got to carry out these works at their own risk. After the statement made on the pant of her Majesty's Government, he did not think it de sirable the noble earl should press his motion. Out of re spect for him he would not wish the house to negative it, but would move the previous question. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE had always been of opinion that the government of the East India Company had been very bad ; but he would be sorry to take so gloomy a view of the financial condition of the country. For what he said amounted to this, that the finances were so bad, that it was impossible to obtain money upon the se curity of the revenue. That he could not credit, when there was almost immediately a return of 691 per cent. upon the money expended on works of public improvements in India. The speech of Mr. Laing, as quoted by the noble earl, clearly showed that there was no intention to execute any public works but those for which they might be able to pay out of the revenue of the year, whereas the proper policy would be to raise a loan for that purpose, especially for works of irrigation. The Duke of ARGYLL said the noble marquis entirely misunderstood his noble friend, who was not opposed to the principls of raising loans for the construction of public works in India. All his noble friend had argued was, that until the finances of India were relieved from the but den which at present pressed upon them, it would be impolitic to put a further load upon them. There were few, he be lieved, who really understood how far the Indian finances were already pledged. There was a public debt of £100,000,000, besides which there was a guarantee on £56,000,000 of capital embarked in railway enterprise, on £38,000,000 of which Government would have to pay inte rest during the present year. There was a great mistake in imagining that the Indian Government was neglectful of these matters, for they had, since the time when the Mar quis of Hastings was Governor-General, promoted them, and they had, since then, executed 1,840 miles of canal. The previous question was then put and agreed to. LANDED PROPERTY (IRELAND) BILL. On the motion of the Marquis of CLANRICARDE, this bill was passed through committee, and their lordships adjourned at a quarter to eight o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY. The SPEAKER took the chair at twelve o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS, The Lords' amendrqents to the following bills were fur ther considered :—Enniskillen and Bundoran Railway ; Midland Railway (Otley and Ilkley Extension) ; New Ross Port and Harbour ; North Eastern Railway (Extension to Otley, &c.) ; Parsonstown and Portumna Bridge Railway ; and West Cheshire Railways. The following bills were read a third time and passed : The Glasgow (City) Lifo Assurance, &c., Company, the Great North of Scotland Railway, and the South Essex Water. IRREMOVABLE POOR BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. On clause 1, Mr. LOCKE said the bill made an alteration which had not been demanded throughout the country. It involved the question whether the parishes in the metropolis, which were materially interested in the proposed change, should have their wishes attended to. He wished to have the area of rating in the metropolis extended, in order that the whole of them should form one union, and he proposed an amend ment by adding to the clause the words "and for that pur pose the area, subject to the provisions of the Metropolis Local Management Acts, shall be a union." This would constitute the metropolis a union in itself. Mr. WARNER thought great injustice would result from the passing the first clause as it stood, but he did not think the amendment would meet the difficulty. He ap proved of the bill as far as it mitigated the law of settle ment ; but if any member would move the total omission of the clause he should support him. Mr. KNIGHT did not think that Norwich had much reason to complain. The property-tax returns showed a great increase for that city, while the rural parishes were being enriched at its expense. He thought Norwich had one of the strongest cases against the extension of the area of rating. Mr. DODSON thought parochial rating was too nar row, but they might run into the opposite extreme. He thought there might be a rating extending over such a district as derived a community of in terest. Many of the labourers worked in one parish and resided in another, therefore, as they gave one the benefit of their labour, and the other the expenditure of their wages, when they became chargeable he thought both should bear the burthen. He approved of the bill as it stood, and he hoped the amendment would be rejected. Sir G. LEWIS said if they were to go on discussing this bill on every point he should altogether despair of passing it in the present session. The measure was one of great importance, and its object was perfectly clear; it had been thoroughly investigated in committee, and the bill was founded upon its report. The subject they were now dis cussing was a totally distinct question from that embraced in the bill. They were now engaged, in fact, in discussing the subject of the equalisation of the rating of the metropolis. He thought it would be wasting the time of the house if they continued the present discussion. Mr. BENTINCK thought the bill was one to relieve the urban at the expense of the rural population, and such being its object he considered it most objectionable. Sir G. LEWIS contended that the bill, so far from being what was described by the hon. member who had just sat down, was one in favour of the landed interest and against the urban parishes, but the charge was just, and therefore the representatives of the towns did not object to it. Mr. HENLEY could not agree with the right hon. baronet the Secretary for the Home Department that the bill needed no further discussion. It was one in his opinion that inflicted great injury on rural parishes, and he should like to know how it would act. That it would act with great capriciousness he was quite certain—(hear, hear) --and he did not think they ought to be called upon to pro ceed with the bill until a statement had been laid before Parliament, of all the parishes, showing how the measure would work; but as they were going on at present, they were working entirely in the dark. He thought if the present measure were withdrawn for the session, Govern ment could obtain the necessary returns, by which they would be enabled to deal with the subject much more efficiently next session. Mr. VILLIERS could not consent to the proposal of the hon. gentleman opposite. The bill had gone through a second reading, and he thought it was very desirable that it should as speedily as possible go through its other stages. He thought the proposal of the hon. member for South wark highly objectionable. Mr. BARROW thought the bill a very good one. Mr. AYRTON was of opinion that the amendment of his hon, and learned friend the member for Southwark was most urgently required in the bill. If the Government had not fully considered the subject, he thought it offered very good ground of withdrawing the bill altogether during the present session. Clauses 2 to 7 were agreed to. On clause 8, Mr. S. ESTCOLTRT thought the object of the hon. member for Southwark both impracticable and unjust. The amendment he had moved was merely a preliminary one, and as it was desirable that the other clauses should be con sidered, he hoped the honourable member would withdraw it from further consideration, and bring up a new and definite clause, embodying his proposition. when they arrived at the proper part of the bill. He thought the bill was grounded c,n justice, and therefore he gave it his earnest support. Mr. WALTER hoped the hon. member would not press his amendment to a division. He thought the bill a good one, and therefore he gave it his support. Sir J. SHELLEY thought the object of the hon. mem ber for Southwark—the equalisation of the poor rates — was too important to be dealt with in the manner proposed, viz , by tacking on scme words at the end of the clause of the bill then before them. The proper way to deal with the question was to have the whole subject fairly inquired into before a committee, and he for one had no fear of the result. Sir L. PALK approved of the principle of the bill, and he should be sorry were it unnecessarily obstructed. Mr. KNIGHT opposed the bill. lie found there were 9,000 parishes that would be injured, and only 6,000 bene fited, and ho should accordingly support the amendment of t're hon, member for Southwark. Perhaps the best course to adopt was to withdraw the bill altogether from further coasrderation during the present session. Mr. LOCKE, in withdrawing the amendment, said he o did so on the u n d erstanding that t h e quest i on was to b e it tahsantot ata havingfutur boon decided nde n c l id u e s d t c in om a e ny un w d a e y r , butthat wasconsidered n e conside ration. Mr. WARNER said he could not approve of the clause, and expressed his intention of dividing the house upon it. Mr. KNIGHT moved that the following words be added : That five years' continuous residence in any parish phall confer a settlement therein, and that four years' con tinuous non-residence in any parish shall forfeit and extin guish all claims to a settlement therein." The proposed addition to the clause was negatived with out a division. The clause was then agreed to, and ordered to stand part of the bill. Mr. AYRTON objected to •the term "perpetual." It was also urged that great injustice was done some persons when any alt3ration was attempted. Ho therefore should move that the words "are hereby made perpetual," be expunged, and that the words "shall remain in force during the existence of this act," be inserted instead. The amendment was negatived without a division, and the clause was ordered to stand part of the bill. On clause 9 being proposed, Mr. S. ESTCOURT moved in line 12 to leave out after " thereof" to the end of line 14, and insert " upon an as sessment calculated by adding to the annual value of the lands and hereditaments in each of such parishes, as here inafter described, a sum equal in pounds sterling to the amount in numbers of the population of such parish, ac cording to the last census." Mr. VILLIERS said he thought the proposition would lead to complications, but he left it entirely to the house to say whether the alteration should be made. (Cries of "Divide, divide.") Sir W. RIDLEY and Sir B. BRIDGES thought that a divi sion on so important a clause should not be taken at that moment. The sitting was then suspended till six o'clock. in the following spring, but the result was notthe conquest of Lombardy and Venice, because the Peace of Villafranca provided only that Lombardy should be surrendered to France, in order that France might afterwards transfer it to Sardinia. But consequent upon that war insurrections took place in Modena, Parma, and Tuscany, and those central duchies declared that their wishAvas to annex themselves to the kingdom of Sardinia. There is a phrase which has been used more than once by French Ministers, and which was referred to by the hon. baronet the member for Tam worth—viz., that the favour which was given by England to these annexations was the cause of the annexation of Savoy and Nice to France. I understand the meaning of that phrase to be, that Venice not having been conquered by France or given to Sardinia, it was not in contemplation for a considerable time that the proposed cession of Savoy and Nice to France should take place. But then it was said that if England had interfered in order to procure the re storation of Tuscany, Modena, and Parma to their former Sovereigns, the aggrandisement of Sardinia would not have been such that the Emperor of the French would have asked for the cession of Savoy and Nice. What ever may be the truth with respect to these allegations, it was, in the opinion of her Majesty's Government, impossible for them to be a party in any way to counsel or to advise that force should be used against the people of Central Italy, with the view of obliging them to recall the Sove reigns whom they had ejected, and'whose rule they repu diated. (Hear.) Therefore, if the annexation of Savoy and Nice to France was to be bought by the use of force to sub jugate the people of Central Italy, it was our opinion that it would be far better not to interfere with the inhabitants of the three duchies, but to proclaim aloud the principles of non-intervention, be the consequences what they might. (Hear.) The duchies did declare in a very solemn way, by their representative assemblies, their wish to be annexed to the kingdom of Sardinia. The question of the cession of Savoy and Nice was again brought forward, and the conse quent negotiations terminated in the Treaty of Turin, by which Savoy and Nice were surrendered by the King of Sardinia to the Emperor of the French. I shall not revert to the correspondence which took place upon that subject. The hon. baronet the member for Tamworth has admitted that we used the strongest language which was compatible with friendly relations in order to expose our objections to the Treaty of Turin. Upon various occasions we stated that we did not agree in the opinion that an extended frontier was necessary to France. We said even that we considered it would be a disadvantage to France to give the example of that annexation— (hear, hear)—and we pointed out—as a separate, but, at the same time, a very considerable ques tion—that the neutrality and independence of Switzerland would be impaired by the transfer of Savoy . to France, in stead of remaining part of the dominions of the King of Sardinia. (Hear.) That question led to further debate, and in one of the last despatches published in the blue-book M. Thouvenel stated that the Treaty of Turin having referred to an understanding to be come to among the great Powers, such understanding might be arrived at in one of the several ways. He said it was proposed to re concile the 92d article of the Treaty of Vienna with the 2d article of the Treaty of Turin, and he pointed out how that might be done. It might be done by a conference of the Powers of Europe ; it might be done by notes giving the consent of Europe to the transfer, the Emperor assuming towards the Powers those obligations which the King of Sar dinia had previously fulfilled—viz., that in case of war the King of Sardinia should evacuate a certain portion of Savoy, called the neutralized territory, and that Switzerland should have military command in that neutralized territory during the continuance of such war ; or, thirdly, it might be done by an understanding between France and Switzerland, which should be communicated to the towers of Europe. The opinion of her M ajesty's Government was very promptly formed, and that despatch of M. Thouvenel being dated June 20, on the 25th of the same month a despatch was addressed by me to Lord Cowley, in which I stated that her Majesty's Government were prepared to accept a con ference on the mode in which this very important question Should be settled. M. Thouvenel replied that the Govern ment of the Emperor were ready on their part to adopt the course which the other Cabinets might desire and which might seem to them best suited to the subject. Such was the policy which her Majesty's Government pursued. It was the course which Switzerland had always proposed. The only request made by Switzerland to the Government of her Majesty was that this question should be settled in a con ference of the great Powers of Europe. In proposing to assent to a conference, therefore, we did everything that Switzerland had ever asked. (Hear.) But it was no use for the Emperor of the French to propose this course, or for her Majesty's Government to assent to it as long as the other Powers of Europe were not consenting parties. The consent of the other Powers was not obtained. Prince Gort schakoff, the Minister of the Emperor of Russia, declared himself perfectly satisfied. He said that Russia considered that, provided Sardinia was willing to cede Savoy, and the Emperor of the French was willing to accept it—provided that the Emperor of the French accepted it with the obli gations or servitude, as they are called, to which the King of Sardinia had been subjected by the Treaty of Vienna — the transaction was complete; Russia had not a word of objection to offer, and saw no need of any further conference or negotiations. Russia, therefore, was not prepared to send a representative to the proposed conference. The Emperor of Austria and the King of Prussia expressed no wish to have a conference. Their opinion was that no ad vantage could be derived from a conference. They there fore expressed by notes that they did not desire a confer ence. The French Minister even interpreted a note of the Minister of the Emperor of Austria as being an acquiescence in what had taken place, and an admission that the posses sion of Savoy and Nice by France was thenceforward part of the public law of Europe. Her Majesty's Government, of course, could not press for a conference in which the other Powers were not willing to take part ; but they could do one thing, and' that one thing they did. They could say that, sufficient security not having been provided for Swit_ zerland, and the neutrality and independence of that coun try having, in their opinion, been impaired by the Treaty of Turin, they could not, without further negotiation, whether in the shape of conference or otherwise, hold that the annexation of Savoy and Nice was• part of the acknowledged public law of Europe. That was stated in a diplomatic document; and, having done that, they could not have gone further unless they had found a dispcsition in Austria, Russia, and Prussia to agree with them in endea vouring to arrange such terms as would pl ace the neutrality of Switzerland in a state of greater security. But, though no such confer ence was assembled and no such agreement was come to, the question of the neutrality and indepen dence of Switzerland as guaranteed by the Treaty of Vienna still remained so guaranteed, and it is as obligation which I trust the Powers will not repudiate. (Hear.) It was au additional security to that neutrality and integrity that such a Power as Sardinia should hold Savoy, and t hat a portion The house resumed at six o'clock. BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. Sir G. C. LEWIS gave notice that the first order of the day at the morning sitting next Tuesday was the bill that they had discussed that morning, and as he did not appre hend that it would occupy much time, he should propose when it was concluded, with the pe - mission of the house, to bring in the Highways Bill. THE IRISH CONVICT SYSTEM. Sir J. ARNOTT wished to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he had any objecti,on to lay upon the table of the house a copy of the correspondence between Captain Crofton and the Irish Government, complaining of the difficulties placed in his way of carrying out the Irish con vict system, in consequence of the reduction of the number of directors, and whether it is the intention of the Govern ment to fill up the vacancy in the direction ? Mr. CARD WELL said the whole question was the effi ciency of the service, and the Government would well con sider whether the officers were really necessary before they filled up the vacancy. SPAIN AND MOROCCO. Mr. GRIFFITH wished to ask the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he was aware that there were no natural or geographical obstacles to prevent or retard the march of troops from Tetuan to Tangier, a distance of one day's journey, by any Power having permanent possession of Tetuan ; and whether the acquisition of the coast dis trict, continuing down to Tetuan from Ceuta, by any Power in possession of that fortress, would not render Ceuta, situated directly opposite to Gibraltar, and very much near to it than is Tangier, a place of great strategical importance, sup ported by a large acquired territory, and able to endanger the security of Gibraltar by threatening the independence of Tangier ? Lord J. RUSSELL said he must decline going into the question at present. EVICTIONS AT PARTRY. On the motion for going into supply, Mr. M‘MAHON moved for a select committee to inquire into the recent evictions at Partry, and into the best means for preventing the recurrence of such scenes. Ho quoted instances of the bigotry and fanaticism of the agents of Lord Plunkett, and of the proselytising attempts carried on under pretence of education—showing the cruelty and injustice practised on the tenants who refused to comply with these demands. He contended that he had made out a fair case for inquiry. The amendm eat having been seconded by Mr. MA CQUIRE, Mr. LEFROY said that in the first instance he was him self disposed to ask leave to second the motion. There was nothing that Lord Plunkett feared less than inquiry to put an end to the senseless and unfounded outcry which had been raised against him. He entered at length into the causes which had induced Lord Plunkett's agent to evict the tenants, all of whom had been tried and convicted of serious offences. He defended Lord Plunkett from the charge of enforcing attendance at schools for proselytising pur poses, declaring that there were still a large number of Roman Catholics on his property, some of whom sent their children to a Roman Catholic school, and denying that Lord Plunkett had ever evicted a tenant for any such refusal. No grounds could, therefore, be fairly alleged to warrant the committee demanded. Mr. WHALLEY said that it us nothing less than an outrage upon the time of the house to ask it to occupy itself with this question. Lord Plunkett was accused of proselytising, but what could a Protestant Bishop do who was conscious of the misery inflicted wherever the Roman Catholic religion was taught- - who four times a year was compelled to denounce it as blasphemous and idolatrous— who was aware of its social evils and domestic miseries— what else could he do but oppose that religion by every means in his power, and enforce those Protestant doctrines which were a part of the Constitution, and under which the whole empire flourished. ? Roman Catholic doc trines were now discarded all over the world, and he therefore called upon the house to put a stop to these dis cussions. Mr. MAGUIRE, at considerable length, impugned the conduct of Lord Plunkett. If due regard had been had to tho voice of Ireland, this power of eviction would long ago have ceased in Ireland. He pointed out the misery atten dant on the expulsion of so large a number of persons from their homes, amongst whom were many children. If the house had refused to listen to these complaints, let it be ware of the alternative to which it drove the Irish people of seeking justice elsewhere. Mr. WHITESIDE declared that these motions were in .tended to raise a cry to prevent the landlords from the ex ercise of their rights. Re denied the extent of the evic tions to be as great as was alleged, and declared that on the whole the relations between landlord and tenant in Ire land had greatly improved. Mr. CARDWELL said that all the arguments used on a former occasion against the committee of inquiry into Irish evictions told with increased for ce against the present mo tion. The house would adopt a measure without precedent, and usurp a power consistent rteither with its principles or its organisation. The house divided, when the numbers were— Ayes Noes Majority.... —sl The motion was accordingly lost. THE INDEPENDENCE OF SWITZERLAND. Mr. KINGLAKE called attention to the danger which seemed to threaten the integrity and independence of Switzerland, and asked what progress had been made to wards effecting those " full and adequate arrangements" which in her Majesty's Speech in August last were ex pressed to be confidently looked forward to as the means for "securing the neutrality and independence of the Swiss Confederation ; and whether (pending the negotiations referred to in her Majesty's Speech), the continued occupa tion by France of territories which have been declared to "form part of the neutrality of Switzerland," is sanctioned by any agreement or understanding between the guaran teeing Powers. lie showed the peculiar and embarrassing position of Switzerland, under the arrangements made at Vienna in 1815, since the Treaty of Turin, with reference to the provinces of Chablais, F24ucigny, and the Genevois, the inhabitants of which had been converted to French- men. He was desirous of obtfdning copies of any further of the territory should be neutralised in case of war ; bu that was not the neutrality and independence itself. Whatt remains to be done has been eloquently stated by the hon. baronet ; it is that Switzerland should herself assert, with out delay and by every means, her determination to defend her own independence, and to maintain that neutrality which has been guaranteed by the Powers of Europe. (Hear.) I know not what dangers may threaten Switzer land, but of this I feel certain, that if the Powers abandoned a cause so just and so strongly guaranteed as the neutrality of that country, they would not only fail in the obligations of treaties, they would not only commit a dishonourable act, but they would shake the security of every St ate in Europe. (Hear.) The hon. baronet has truly said that Great Britain in this case cannot act alone ; but I entirely agree with him as to the interest which she has in preserving her connec tions and alliances with the various Powers, and in main taining that independence of the several States of Europe which is generally known by the name of the " balance of power." (Hear.) I believe that if she tried by selfish policy correspondence in relation to the neutralised provinces of Savoy. The practical result he aimed at was, he said, to shut the stable door before it wz too late. . . to set aside any part of her moral obligations, and endea• Sir R. PEEL said he considared the annexation of Savoy to France as now afait accompli; but, as regarded Swit zerland, we were bound to consider the question of the neu tralised territory in a public point of view. If we were dis voured to insulate herself from the other Powers, though there might be a seeming security in that position, it would soon fail, and she would find herself abandoned by all the States whose interests she had disregarded. (Hear.) We have seen in recent transactions the advantage of European concert. There was considerable danger, many persons thought, in what happened last year in Syria, when the appointed in our expectations, ir► relation to that territory, the blame, he admitted, did not rest with the British Go vernment. Nothing had beer'. done; but England was only one of the parties to the Treaty of Vienna. The most whole mind of Europe was shocked by the dreadful massa cres which took place in that quarter. We appeared to be placed between two dangers. The one was that the massa cres would be repeated in various parts of the Turkish Em- positive assurances had been given to Europe by Sardinia pire, and that Mahomedan fanaticism would have its full and by France in regard to the neutralized provinces, and sway, and play a part of blood and rapine which would raise the second article of the Treaty- of Turin declared its acces- all the Powers of Europe against the maintenance of the sion to the 92d article of that of Vienna. He noticed the Turkish Empire. On the other hand, if European °coupe suggestion of the French Government, that it was owing tion were permitted, there was the danger that the occupa. to England that France did note cede the neutralized terri- tion by one Power might be continued, and that the ex tory to Switzerland ; ho cited evidence of the spirit and ample might be followed by others of the Powers who were means of resistance in that country, which was determi ne d neighbours of Turkey. The Powers agreed in concert at to defend its territory, and ho drew no favourable picture Paris that a body of French troops should go to Syriawith of the present condition of Servoy, which had, he said, a view to prevent a repetition of the massacres, ancltheir fallen a victim to a conspiracy riecretly h a t c h e d aga i nst her. ex t ens i on t o o th er p a rts of the TurkishEmpir?. The ti me Lord J. RUSSELL.—I cannot deny the ri g ht o f m y h on . came when it appeared to us that the occupation farmight be friend the member for Bridgwater to ask for so me ex pl ana - safely discontinued, and that there was in fact more tion with respect to the stateme n t ma d e i n h er M a j esty ' s d anger i n it s continuance than in its cessation, and that Paris. ment, Speech at the close of the last session of Parlia- opinion was expressed to the assembled Powers at 0 -. ment, to the effect that, although the proposed Conferences The Russian Government gave the directly opposite rarr i F ce re • on the subject of the cession of Bavoy and of Nice to France nion, that there would be the greatest danger had not been held, her Majesty confidently trusted that in linquishing the occupation of Syria; but the determination any e was in fact any negotiations which might take place full and adequate to which her Majesty's Government comehad arrangements would be made for securing, in accordance binding on all the Powers. If the Sultan with the spirit and letter of the, Treaty of Vienna of 1815, occupation should cease, it was impossible hear) —and her the the neutrality and independence of the Swiss Confederation. could insist on its prolongation—(hear , te h Sultan in that de. But, before I outer upon that question, it may be as well to Majesty's Government supportedsh required that owed his good faith, as I refer to some circumstances which have been mentioned in Errand. The French Emperor ll expected he would, by -with the course of this uebate, and which, - although they have stated in this house that Ifu been explained before, perhaps require some further elucida- ndication that the Powers are tion. It appears now to be perfectly clear, not from any drawing his troops on the veryi fully expects that had been appointed. (Bear, hear.) That is one indication in such a manner as may diplomatic documents, but from what has been reported and disposed to treat the s se la qi i i en. (Hear.) Again, there is this not denied, that before the Italian war took place, in the lead to their pacifi ltal o t It is well known that the French summer or autumn of ISSB, an agreement was come to be- very question of tween the Emperor of the French and the Prime Minister Governmenit.havoefrseptyitaetsed_ly e xhibited their preference for for one Italian Po wer in the of the King of Sardinia by which hopes were held out that a eotbufeadnothtelernin the centre with the Pope at its head, and French troops would be sent to the assistance of the Kin of another n , er in the south, with perhaps other smaller States i Sardinia in caee he 'should be attacked by Austria, and by terspersed—to th e.a u t n a i v ty our of of lta an ly i . ty B ; uant dththeepEeonpilpeeorofrthnoe; which it was stipulated that if the result of the war should be to give Lombardy and Venice to Sardinia, in that event the French has amply acknowledged the legitimacy of h country declared f Here also her te Savoy and Nice should be surrendered to France. As . 1 d title_ . of the King of Italy. (Heavr,ernhemaren. ) t of the Emperor have heard the story, Count Cavour is reported to have said o in respecting the principle " That is a matter b be considered ;" and the expression of eAflateheestFyrseoGoohvaerrnerennetnirtealnydatghreeeGa his opinion or wish that it should be considered was taken ! k of the national Till of a pool* wh o , T by France as an assent. (Hear, hear.) The war too k p lace I trust, are clestiAo4 tr 9 renew their former glory in arms and in the arts of peace. (Cheers.) Other questions are still pending, some of them on the Continent of Europe, and some may also arise in the unhappy war which is now taking place in America. If France and England can act in harmony on these subjects it will be a great benefit, not only to the two countries themselves, but to Europe and the world. We have on every occasion made the frankest communication to France of our opinions and views in regard to them, and I must say that we have been met by France in a very proper spirit. I trust that, whatever unfortunate differences may have existed at any time last year, we shall now continue to aat in concert and harmony, that the peace of the world may be preserved, and that these two great nations may combine to promote the best interests of the world. (Cheers.) IRISH CONVICT PRISONS. Lord NAAS called attention to the recent changes in the Board of Directors of Irish Convict Prisons. He dwelt upon the merits of the Irish system, as shown by its results, and upon the dependence of the system on the energy, know ledge, and experience of the heads of the departments. It was proposed to make a considerable alteration in the con stitution of the Board of Directors, and he urged the Go vernment to reconsider its determination. Mr. CARDWELL admitted the value and efficiency of the system of convict discipline in Ireland, and explained the extent and reasons of the alterations made in the board ; adding that he was engaged in further inquiry upon the subject. The discussion of this subject was continued by Mr. Whiteside, Sir G. Lewis, Mr. Monsell, Sir G. Grey, and other members. The Speaker was at length allowed to leave the chair, and the house went into a committee of supply, but it being then 12 o'clock, the Chairman was ordered to report pro gress. THE WAKEFIELD WRIT. The adjourned debate on the motion that a new writ be ordered to be made out for Wakefield, was resumed by Mr. Sergeant PIGOTT, who said it appeared to him that the reasons upon which the motion was based were no reasons at all. It had been reported by the commissioners that bribery had been openly carried on by the canvassers of both political parties, and that the practice of corruption was common among all classes; that it was notorious to the whole population, and excited but little reprehension. If, therefore, the house decided that a writ should go, it would be because it was desirous that the borough should have an opportunity of exercising its corrupting tastes, and in the same Parliament. (Ironical cheers from the Censer-. vatives.) It behoved the house, for the sake of public mo rality, to visit such a flagrant departure from public inte • grity with its severest censure. He was of opinion, how ever, that a definite term of punishment ought to be awarded in such a case, and he had yet to learn that the bill which had been introduced for that purpose would not be passed this session. It was not unconstitutional that a writ should be suspended during the pleasure of the house. That was the case at Liverpool in 1831, and at Stafford in 1835, when the writs were suspended in consequence of reports of select committees. Again, the writ for Nottingham was suspended in 1842, not upon the report of a select committee, but by the exercise of the prerogative of the house. It was not only not unconstitutional, but a wholesome lesson was read by it to constituencies which he thought would not be thrown away; fcr, just as the practice of duelling had been put an end to in this country by the firm expression of the state of the law on the subject by a judge who they had only lately lost, so he believed that a firm expression of the policy of the house with reference to bribery was all that was needed, if not to eradicate bribery from the constituencies, at least to diminish it very considerably. Fc.r those reasons he should support the motion. Mr. KNIGHTL EY said he differed trom the view of the question taken by the hon. and learned gentleman who had just spoken, and considered that the suspension of a writ was a proceeding unconstitutional in the highest de • gree. He hoped the Government, therefore, would not op pose the motion now made. Sir G. GREY said, in the case of Wakefield there could be no doubt that bribery had occurred, and that those who derived no advantage from it had not taken the means in their power to check it. A committee had reported to the house on some cases of this kind, and recommended that in such cases there should be temporary but not absolute dis franchisement. That recommendation had not been acted upon. The committee recommended five years ; in the case of Wakefield the suspension had been for two years, and he thought sufficient time had not yet elapsed, and that it was not expedient that that constituency should have its electoral rights at present restored. (Hear.) Mr. HENLEY said the precedents quoted by some hon. members in reference to this case were in most cases inap plicable. He thought that if the principle of five years' sus pension was to be acted upon, the Government or the house should have, either by law or resolution, settled the matter definitively. He would vote for the issuing of the writ. Colonel SMYTHE said the question for the house to discuss was, whether Wakefield had been sufficiently pun ished. He thought two years' disfranchisement was punishment enough. The taking away of its position as the county town was also felt as a very serious grievance, and made the people more than ever desirous of having their borough franchise restored. He must say that he had been greatly surprised at the course taken by the Home Secretary, who had said that, if the second division on this question on a former night was in favour of the issue of the writ, he would not oppose it ; and yet in defi ance.of that statement, he voted against it. He hoped. that his vote that night would restore the confidence which hon. members on that side of the house had heretofore felt in him. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BENTINCK aaid he heard the speech of the hon. and learned gentleman who had opened the debate that night with the greatest surprise, because he said it involved no grievance to the people of Wakefield. He thought the right of the electors of Wakefield ought not to be dependent either on the caprice of the house or of the Government of the day. The matter ought to be placed on a clear and dis tinct foundation. At present the course pursßed seemed to be most unconstitutional. He had no sympathy with any delinquent borough, but he contended that all such boroughs —except when specifically deprived of the franchise—should be treated alike, and on that ground he would, on this occa sion, vote for the issue of the writ. Lord PALMERSTON said he thought there was a great deal of force in the observations of the hon. gentleman who just sat down, namely, that the house should take some de cided course with respect to these delinquent boroughs, and not allow the question to be decided by the caprice of either the house or the Government. His right hon. friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster had shown the rea sons why it had not been thought right to place Gloucester and Wakefield under the operation of a bill which would suspend the exercise of their franchise for five years. But if it should be thought right, when they went into committee on that bill, to extend its operations to these two boroughs, he would urge upon the house that that would be a strong reason why they should not come to a decision that night to issue this writ. If he understood the hon. gentleman (Mr. Bentinck) aright he was prepared to vote for the total disfranchisement of these two towns. (Hear, hear.) But not being prepared to go that length, he would submit to the house that the writ ought not to be issued now, but to wait until they went into committee on the bill referred to, and then consider whether the sus pension for five years should be extended to the twc boroughs. (Cheers.) The house ought really to consider what would be the consequence of issuing the writ upon public opinion, under existing circumstances. What was the use of appointing commissioners to inquire into alleged bribery and corruption if after their report, stating that both existed to a large extent, had lain upon the table of the house for a few months, the delinquent boroughs were reinstated in their position. (Hear.) It was not simply for the satisfaction of ascertaining that bribery and corruption existed that they went to the expense of making these in quiries. It was expected that when boroughs were con• vieted of bribery and corruption, some penal action would follow.-To do otherwise would be trifling with the subject, and produce the impression that the house thought bribery and corruption a trivial and venal offence not to be visited with any penalty. He entreated the house to consider that its own character was at issue in this matter. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DISRAELI said the point before them was, whe. ther they should suspend a writ without the authority o f law, but it appeared to him that in their eagerness to pu n i s h Wakefield and Gloucester, they mi g ht be committi ng mistake which would entail m uch inconvenience. The b house e ought noble l not ord t . o I b v e r t n e fl fuoernc boroughsed b y a wvagueere suspended, and and e toproceed The right h on . gentleman in ex post isnusstpaennedeetdhaint the an writh a rbitrary sonld issue. m anner, Th e CHANCELLOR of t he EXC HEQUER said h e and he thou g h t i n this was sorry to find that th e ri gh t ho n . g entl eman intended to vote for the issuing of the writ, as it wo uld place the house in an awkward position h on house foreth the country. ot facto legislation , and that it ought ought not to suspend the writ. His noble frien d (Lord Palmer ston) stated that the h ouse during the prese nt sessio n would have an o pp or t un it y o f kw s a a r i d d t deciding upon the amount of punishment which should be inflicted upon these boroughs, so that the objection of the right hon. gentleman was fairly met. Mr. MACAULAY said the speech of the right hone gentleman had not at all indisposed him to vote in favour of the motion. Mr. lIODGSON attempted to address the house, amidst cries cf " Divide, divide." Sir G. GREY said a few words in explanation. Mr. GEORGE condemned the conduct which Govern ment had pursued on this question. Sir G. LE WIS briefly explained the course which he had pursued on the occasion of the former discussion on this question, and which, he contended, involved no inconsis tency whatever. Major ED WARDS complained of the decision which had been come to by the commission which was appointed to in quire into the election for Wakefield, and he contended that not snore than one-eighth of the electors were involved in the charge of corruption. The house then divided, and the numbers were-- For issuing the writ Against it.. Majority 5O The announcement the division was received with loud cheers on the Ministerial side. SUPPLY. The report was received and agreed to. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and the house adjourned at five minute s past two o'clock. LONDON : Printed and Published by MURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at TDB SUN Othce, No. 112,Strand in the Precinct of the Savoy, In the County of AliddleseX. SatUrdaY, July 6 , /661. • ,