The Sun. — London, England, 1842-06-18 00:00:00

wine of your crime. Let me beseech you to apply yourself, for the short time that you have yet to remain this world, to endeavour, by your contrition and enitence for the dreadful crime which you have com mitted, to obtain the pardon of that Almighty Gcd, who by Lis interposition, prevented you from completing the horrid crime which you had imagined. Pray to that Almighty Being that, as he has been pleased to interpose to pre vent the further aggravation of your offence, by the i com pletion of the crime which you had maziiiel, also he will be pleased to show mercy to your soul. It. now only remains for me to pass upon you the sentence of tl e aw, which is—that you, John Francis, be taken from hence to the place from whence you came, that you be drawn from thence on a hurdle to the place of execution, and that you be hanged by the neck until you be dead ; that your head be afterwards severed from your body, and that your body be di vided into four quarters to be d.sposed of in such manner as to her Majesty shall seem fit; and the Lord have mercy on your soul. At the conclusion of the sentence the pli?onter fell fainting back into the arms of the gaolers, and he was led away sobteng most piteously. We observed Mr. O'Driscoll, the talented young artist whose excellent likeness of Good we took occasion to imtice some time age, busily engaged in taking a he iiri ,4iner and the Court during the proceidin2?, aid ue haye no doubt that a good portrait of the w retched criminal will shortly be presented to the public. ..'VE IV COURT The Common Sergeant presided in the New Court yntei.- day, but tlae eases were all very IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, June Their Lordships met at Five o'Clock. On the motion of. the Duke of WELLINGTO:' , 7 the Su ar Duties Bill was read a third time and passed. THE QUEEN'S LETTER. Lord CLONCURRY inquired whether any portion of ;lee money collected, in consequence of the Queen's letter, would be applied to the relief of the poor ni Ire land ? The Duke of WELLINGTON said that if the No:Ile Lord had given notice of his question he would nave been prepared to answer it. He would give the :LII,Wer on the first day the House met again. Lord FITZGERALD said that the collections were all made in England and Wales, and Ireland had con tributed nothing. Lord CLONCURRY said that subscriptions had been raised in Ireland, but they were inadequate, in conse quence of the incomes of the gentry being spent OM of the country. The Earl of RAI)NOR wished to ask one or two questions before the business of the Income-tax caute on. He wanted to know what was the reason of the distinc tion of 24- in Scotland and 3 in England ? The Earl of RIPON said that in the former Income tax Bill the tenant was charged upon two-thirds of his rent. But it was found that this operated uncepially upon the Scotch tenants, w h o. p a id hi g h er rents i n pro portion than the English. T E INCOME-TA X. The Earl of RIPON rose to propose the third reading of the Income-tax, and in doing so, he would have to draw upon their Lordships' attention more largely than he should wish, but he would endeavour to compress into the narrowest compass what he had to say, by treating the matter as one merely of business, and by avoiding the introduction of topics which would teed their minds from the consideration of the Bill itself. The first thing would he to Icing before them the actual state and condition of the finances of the coue:ry, which was the foundation of the Bill. During the last few years there had been a continued deficiency in the Revenue in the following ratio:--In the year 1833 the deficiency was 1,428,0001.; in 1839 it was 430,000/.; 1840 it was 1,457,000/.; in 1841 it was 1,851,000/i; "'and,this year, 1842, up to the sth of April the de ficiency was . 2,139,0001. The deficiency had been largest in the two last years. This alone would be suf tient to show the unsatisfactory state of the country, es pecially when the circumstances were considered which occurred whilst the habitual deficiency was going on and it would he impossible to meet the exigencies of 1843 without resorting to some new measure of finance. The revenue of the year amounted only to 43,353,00 a, whereas the expenditure, reduced as far as cu.- . cumstances would permit, amounted to 50,944,00(1/. the deficiency being 2,594,0031, and taking together this deficiencies of the six years there was an actual deti eieacy of 9,593,0001. The deficiency of 1841 t tie treater than that of any of the antecedent 3a-aes, attnough there had been an actual increase of the re venue from the financial nneteurea of the Government, which however, although successful to that. extent, was not sufficient to meet the expenditure. The great increuse in the expenditure of late years was entirely in those great items of expenditure denominated our military establishments, and which it had been found necessary largely to increase, with a view fa, ensure the honour and character of the country. In the year 1838, th e ex p enses o f our army, navy, and ordnance, amounted to 12,827,0001. In the year 1639, these expenses amounted to 13,273,000/. ; and there was in that year an additional expenditure in Canada of 500,0001., making the total military expen diture of that year 13,773,000/. In the year 1840, our military expenses amounted to 13,702,000/., and the ex traordinary expenses of that year were 716,000/., making a total of 14,478,004 In the year 1841, the ordinary military expenditure was 14,012,000/. ; and the eltole •expeaditure, including the outlay in Canada and China, .amountedtol4,647,oooL'lnthe year 1842, that was to :.ay, alp to the month of April of the present year, the ordi nary military expenditure was 14,705,0001.; and when to that was added the extraordinary expenses in Canada and China, • the entire 'expenditure of the year amounted to 13,348,0011. There had, therefore, been an increeee in our military expenditure, since the year 1838, of upwards of 3,000,000/. Neither did he see any prospect that that expenditurtewould e for Some time to come, be diminished. They nod wers in the . East of which they could n t cal culate the termination ; and it would even new be necessary to make good a deficit of 700,000/. in the axpenses of the Chita war.. Tee total deficit in the r. venue at the expiration of the year 1842 amounted to 10,000 000/. ; and as there was no prospect that that eeficiency would be :applied.. by a fortunate concurrence of events, that was the basis of his arguments for the imposition of the tax upon incomes which he was about to propose. The necessity of equalising our revenue arid ex pendil ure, he thought he need not argue. It was plain that it was riot safe to leave the revenue -of -the country with an in creasing deficiency. One of ahe eva4ons of the deficiency was the reduction on the postage, and on that occasion the defi ciency was 2,332,0001. ; and then Parliament proceeded to enact new taxes to the amount of 2,337,000/. It became . tie .cea:ary, when the present Government came into office, that of neatly articles which were imported from foreign countries, and -teem which duties were levied, a thorough revision should take place. This was shown the more necessary from the im part duties having but a year or two ago been raised in some eases as high as twelve per cent. Having had some experi ence iu these matters, he had always found it, more difficult to take a-tax off, and more likely to create dissatisfaction, anti uo ,4sines3, ant alarm, than it was to put that duty on.• Of course they had had to contend with those difficulties, and he theught no one would say that they bad not done their duty in laying a foundation for a better arrangement and adjustment of thoseduties, 1 hey could not of course carry this object into effect without incurring a considerable loss of revenue. They then, to consider what the amount of deficiency would be without an alter:dire - 1 of the tariff, and also what it wield be with that alteration. The estimated deficiency, suppo-ine rh a t ne dterat ion It taken place in the tariff, was 2,594,nne1,, and the estimated toes in censequence of a reduction in the tat di was taken at 3,7a0,000/. It was, there-fire, necessary to ire.l,o , ;e additional taxation. The Income-tax was estimatt it to produce 3,7,iioceL, and alteration in the stamp duties in Irc lmd tOeeeee., and the spirit duties in Ireland were estimated te pr. , love ::50.0QU1. It was abo originally estimated that :2(10,0001. would be realizel from an export duly on , cal, but owing to some modification it weuld net exceed 160,0ta the whole of these taxes being 4,t1:0 000/. Oet of that they had to dednet the deficienc, for F• ar of 2,700,tree/., which ...nub! leave 1,740,0001. Peoni -That tliey had to deduct the loss by the tariff, which would a surplus after meeting both cases of 520,0001. It was therefore impassible to meet these deficteocies by any other plan whi , •h po,•,;et•sttvi se few objections. The addition of to per reed. to ~ , , s esßed taxed did not realise the expectat :ries (hi louse who had In: igina-ed it. He therefore thought ti,,) had fiutliweut xr,,und ter the propo,ition if her Majes , y's Government. tie e,,s aware that it had been said that they could re-establish taxes which hail been taken off in 1815. Nothing could be attended with more difficulty than this. It appeared that sinee the war the reduction had been no less in the Cuetome 11:an 0,021,0ie0t. In the meant:me, however, Parliament re-impose;; 0001. It was, therefore, clear that any attempt to make goon the deficiency by raising the Customs duties, which bad tapen reduced neon the very principle which regulated tie new tariff, svculd tail. For instance, tho duty open cotton wool I which sui•plied labour to so large a portion of the copulation. Since the war the duty upon that article had been reduced to the amount of 1,324,00)/. What would be the consequence of re-imposing that duty ?—( (lear.) fact, tiething but the eonsideratioie of e revenue could inatity the e fait:nig of the duty that was ea* levied up on it. Th e ttext was !he duty upon tonnage. He thought that no one would say , that tYs duty should be again. raised to its former amount. He believed that, looking to the increasing competition of foreign manufacturers, no one would say that it would be right to raise the duty upon raw material. As no the duty upon coal, would any one say that it should he increased ? Again, look to silk. Weald you recommend that the duty upon that community should be increased, when it was of such vast importance to our own manufacturers? If he were to go through th e w h o l e o f . these items, he could convince their Lordships that it would be impossible to raise 100,000/. in that way. Coming to the Eeci.e. There had been since the peace a reduction altogether of 10 0410,000/. Would they re-impose that ? Take tine first article, malt. He was one who had always resisted the total repeal of that tax. But would any one say that it should be raised? The next article was salt. Was it not the general outcry against that tax, whilst it existed, that it eeprived the poor of one of the necessaries of life? He was sure that none of their Lordships would recommend the re-imposition of that tax. He said the same of the tax upon leather, for the collection of which the most clumsy and vexatious contrivances had been necessary. Great reductions had teken place in the Excise upon spirits. In • the lat e regulatkps of the Government there had been an iecresse .4,1 4n, shilling upon Irish spirits. But in raising the duty upon *ha, commodity it was necessary to take care that they did not give enyourgereent to that mo s t dem o r a lising of all pratei , ca In that article there could he no increase. V ith respect tie printed calicoes, no one would think of re-imposing theie, a duty of 2,:e.0,600/, for the sake of a revenue, whiA. with the drawbacks, yielded ouly 525.0eee It ceuld not he supposed that it would he ealat able to the country to re- ice! use t f'iesrarnp dune; on l aw proceedings, wlech were very prop, rly deeigoated as taxes upon justice.—( Hear, hear.) Next es tree tax on advertisements. Thefe a ieltied 147,0001. ; the t bad been cuesiderably reduced, aed :;I , hongh the revenue hi e e at Tire rteetvered from the reduction, soil the number of .el- Yettlsements had been greatly increased, and the public leo portii.nately benefited. Then the=re was the reduction ci :191,000/. takers in 1836 off - the tax upon newspapers. ffe did not think that the House of Commons would be disposed to re-impose that tax, and he was sure that such a prop*al would not meet with the approval of themembers of the late Ariministration, with whom the reduction bad originated. • It might, however, be said that they might increase the revenue, by an addition to the assessed taxes. H i , doubted, however, whether such a course would be acceptable to the country, or whether it would in itself be politic.- They lied, for instance, abolished the house-tax, and he questioned whether it would now be advisable to re-impose it. No ta x would be felt more grievously by the poor, than such a tax; it would render their dwellings still more uncomfortable than they were at present. Se, again, with respect to the window tax ; its re-impoeition would pants severely upon the humbler -- classes. It might, however, be said that they could impose those taxes exclusively on the rich. But it should be observed, that if they were to adopt such a course, they would hold out an inducement to parties to evade such taxes, by reducing their expenditure. lie thought he had said enough to show, that by no change in our taxation could the present deficiency i:t the revenue be supplied. There were some parties, however, who thought it advisable that we should increase our revenue by a fixed duty upon corn. Now, he should say that he doubted the polio, of making a duty upon corn a part of a fixed fiscal plan. It would be most unsafe to rely upon it as a source of revenue, as the amount of duty to be raised by such means, unuld necessarily perpetually fluctuate. Then there w ere the articles of sugar and corn. They could not. consistently with good policy, raise a large duty upon timber, which was an article of hourly use, and of the utmost importance. It entered into our ma nufactures, our buildings, and our shipping ; and he did not think that any party would wish to see a large amount of revenue raised by a high rate of duty upon such an article. Sugar was the next item. The idea which had ocean-red with respect to sugar, had been recently stated elsewhere. It was said that a reduction in the duty would benefit the con sumer. Now he was ready to admit that a reduction of the duty would do so if it were carried far enough ; a 'educ tion would have no good effect. Let them see the effect ti the revenue. The proposition was 4s. on one-sixth of the present duty, and on foreign it was 30s. instead of 635. Now. ik hat would be the effect of that. ? In would, in the first place, 1:e to diminish the revenue derived from British sugar one-sixteclith. In 1841, the net revenue derived from Sugar was 5,114,t ; consequently, if that duty of 20s. had been levied instead of 245., the effect would have been to reduce the amount of :hat one—ixth, and there would be a loss of 852,000/. But the as.umption was nor only a loss, but that there would bo an increase to the revenue, arising from that charge, esti - I - mi.,' at 700,0001. ; so that, by this plan, they were to lose 852,0001., with a gain of 700,00C1. to meet it. The consumption of the last year was the largest aver known in this country. The consumption was equi valent to 24i1b. per head, and the average price was 375. lid., exclusive of duty. The duty being 205., according to this hypothesis, would raise the price to 575. lid. In the years 1830, 18.31, and 1832, the price of sugar was remark ably low : Years. Price. Duty. Total. In 1830 ...... 245. lld. 1831 1832 reduce the price from 245. to 305., would have the effect of re ducing the price down to the average price of those sears. Now, what would be the amount of that addition to the eon. sumption, which was about lib. per head, and would mount to 8.328 tons of sugar ? The total amount of consumption would be 218,714 tons, producing an increase to the revenue of 218,0001., and this to meet 820,000/Joss. These were the grounds upon which he defended the course adopted by her Majesty's Government—the situation of our finances, wehout any prospect of a reduction in the expenditure, would justify the course they had pursued. It was absolutely necessary to make a great effort once for all, and therefore he conceived, that in spite of all the objections—in spite of all the supposed benefits offered by other schemes—schemes more plausible, in one sense—in spite of all, he still thought their Lo dships would do well to follow the example of the other House of Parliament, and pass that Bill as the most efficient mode of meeting the exigencies, which must be met somehow, and which, if they did not meet, they would expose the country to the greatest possible evils. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE rose to more the resolution of which he had given notice for the secoud reading of this Bill. He was happy that his absence had not retarded the progress of this Bill, which it had never been his wish to oh struct.—(Hear, hear, from the Duke of Wellington.) All that he wished was, to have an opportunity, with those who agreed with him, of expressing his disapprobation of the mea sure. He entirely agreed with the Noble Lord who hail just addressed the House, that it was necessary that the revenue should be raised to an equality with the expenditure, and that the deficiency ought not to be made up by an addition to the national debt.—( Hear.) Neither did he think that anything could be done by reducing the establishments of the country, which were not greater than the exigencies required. As to the present difficulties of the country, he was neither so san guine as to suppose that they were immediately to terminate, nor was he so desponding as to apprehend that they were te be permanent. But he agreed altogether with the Noble Lent that the deficiency was to be dealt with, with ou t th ese coos:ite rations ; that it wasto b e supplied without considering whether it was for this year only or for many in prospect.—( hear. hear.) But then he came to the question of the Income-tax as a substitute for all those taxes which at present were in existence. It might be a great and beneficial change from the present system of taxation to one of incest-le— -1 it might be a beneficial change : but it was one which they were not in a condition to diseuss. It was a change, w Lich was not warranted by a deficiency of two millions and a half. It would stand to reason at all times that when they were called upon to make good a deficit they should do so as far as pie sible by modification of existing taxes. How much mor e so was that necessary w h en they considered the distress and suf fering of a large portion of the population ? In such circum stances, it they were compelled to resort to direct taxation, it should be to that mode which would be the least burthensome and the least unpalatable. Let them see how this applied to the Income-tax. The book was on the table; it was large, thick, and voluminous ; it was a gigantic offspring of a five months' labour.—(Cheers.) It was certainly an efficaeions tax. So was the lancet an efficacious instrument. The tax would surely draw the money from the pockets of the people as the lancet would draw blood from the veins of the patient. or from the arteries perhaps, as there was little discrimination in the mode of applying it, or regard to the consequeuees which would follow to the constitution or comfort of the patient. Efficacy was the sole recommendation of the new tax. It had been elsewhere boasted that the tax would affect the rich a!one, that, in fact, they were taxing themselves; but was it not really the case, that this tax struck immediately at that capital w hich put the labour of the country into activity, and that the imly savings by which those who paid it could relieve themselves of the burden, would come from that fund from which emiloy merit was given to the people ? An Income-tax was a gigantic instrument, which had been used in cases only of the greatest exigency ; and he could not but feel surprised that the Govern ment had thought it necessary to have recourse to it to meet a deficit of 2,500,0001. It reminded him of a party who had an elephant sent to him, which he employed in his garden in seve ral trifling services ; but he soon found that the trouble of keeping the elephant more than counterbalanced the serv . ces which the animal rendered. The Income-tax had in addition, the great disadvantage of being essentially an unequal tax. It was unequal, even with rel.ect to the landed proprietor; for although parties might seem to hare the same interest in land, there were various circurnstaeees which, in reality, rendered their interest very different. It eas very unequal as regarded tenants, whose interest in their hold ings was influenced by various circumstances, which could not be taken into account by the collectors of an Income-tax. 13ut the tax pressed still more unequally on trades and professions, which were for ever varying and uncertain. He had a still fur ther objection to an Income-tax, in the fact of its being one of the most inquisitorial nature. He thought he had said enough to convince their Lordships that nothing but an absolute neces sity could justify their agreeing to this tax. He denied that this necessity existed. He believed that there were other means of increasing the revenue. He was not going to revive the discussion on the C orn -l aws , b u t, t h e pr i nc i p l e of protect ion having been confirmed by both Houses of Parliament, he must say that this tax seemed to be, not for the purpose of benefieng the people, but merely of protecting those laws passed for pro tection. The corn introduced last year, if a fixed duty had ex isted, would have produced 500,0001. in addition to what it had produced. He then came to the question of sugar, and if ever there appeared to be created by Providence an article made to be subservient to the wants of the people, that was sugar. It being an article pro duced abroad justified a small duty on its introduction. '1 bas article demanded the care of the Legislature, and that care e a s given not absolutely to deprive the poor man of this article, but to extremely narrow his consumption of Cheers. ) Noble Lords could hardly believe the suffering of the icor cottager from this deprivation. He had had personal ()Heir tunity of witnessing teis. The consumption bad been reduced by this sort of legislation to less yer head than a convict's :1- lowance. In st me cases it had been reduced to one-fourth the amount of a convict's allowance. It had been found that a cottager had at first taken sugar from one member sf lis family after the other, until it teas found that he only ji,r chased at last enough to sweeten the food of a sick child. ( Hear, hear.) \Valet did not rush to its leael sooner than did a disposition arise to purchase sugar in large districts upon a sud den reduction of pr:ce. 'thousands of tons of sugar were t vet out of the country by this species of legislation. He millet name many articles, the consumption of which had rapidly in creased upon a reduction of duty. One of these articles eas coffee. It appeared from the statement of 111 r. Martineau tl , at the moment the price fell to below 60s. the demand was un limit, it. An immense demand suddenly sprung up. He mas not ore who thought that there should be a complete equal za- Lion oft he duty Let w cen the colonial produce and foreign proem 0, but nothing could be more pernicious than a system of eon, mous differ eotial duties. It was proved by the Chancellor of the Exchequer last year that a reduction in the duty on su:zar would produce to the revenue an income of 500,0001. 'lll , le was one argument with respect to those duties which he stos glad to find his Noble Friend had not made use of. It was en argument continually made use of in the other House, that however 1 4 esirable it might be that the people should have che: p sugar, still it could not be given to them while a state of slavery existed. He thought it did honour to his Noble Friend. But there were persons who recommended the people to start e, and the country to go without revenue, in the hope—rest leg on a weak foundation, a foundation their proceedings %, re calculated to take away-Lin the hope of the slaves being eman cipated in various States of South America. There was a :tat of conscience which flitted over the Budget of the Chancellor of the Exchequer so well trained, that it knew when to ap t ear and when to disappear—when to show :tself, and when to wail:- draw itself.—( Laughter.) He supposed they would net re fine arty more sugar for them. Oh no. They had refiner , at home, and it was necessary that their interests should be pro. teetesl; they did not mind refining a little sugar ; it was only when sugar tame into the home consumption that they began to be discontented.—( Hear.) When he stated that he thought these were rather shallow pretences than solid arguments to induce foreign Governments to adept a different policy from their present, he trusted they would not think that he was le.s impressed than any of their Lordships, with the horrors arid abominations of slavery, and with the positive necessity for the abolition of so cruel and disgraceful a practice. But it was the threats that he objected to. It must be by the moral example which they set to other nation!, and by proofs of the efficacy of free labour, which they could afford, that they could ever 1,,,1e to induce foreign nations to abolish the slave trade. He did, however, protest against any attempt to interfere with the in ternal arrangements of other countries, knowing, as he did, that such attempts were attended only with failure, and were calculated to induce resentment on the part of the country in terfered with. It had lately cone to light that a most barbarous and cruel system of labour had existed for some time en the mining districts, with which their Lordships had hitherto been unacquainted. Why, what would their Lordships theik tf the French Ambassador here should suddenly rise tip and sty that that country would no longer continue its commercial a,- rangerneuts with us unle,s we consented never more to em' ley fearsles er children in such a manner in cur mines? Vb , hy, whatever might he the feeling of their Lordships upon the ari propriety of that kind of labour, they would most unquestiensily think that such an interference "as most jaesumptuous end uncalled for on the part of any other country.— ( Hear, henr hey should not, then, threaten other countries to abate:ell their commercial treaties with then .r i e , l b a tit o th r a ey s shouldv,.uld the such set t! stn an m of x the rof . which the' th would e a acYo arise to them se l ves b y adapt rue e that coup-e in preference to slave labour.— ( Hear, hear.) it, Ai eight he had stated sufficient reasons to show that no time should be het in effecting a change in the boas regarding 'sugar. He should briefly advert to the a.... tide timber. His Honsurable Friend calculated lest year that the reduction of the price of Norway timber would t di i, dd something like 600,0001. to the revenue; it was known ~.t the price of Norway timber regulated the price of other timber, and if tis. were taken off Norway timber, foreign timber of a better quality could be purchased much cheaper than at pre.. sent, and the consumption, in consequence, would considerably increase. He must say that, having considered the measures proposed by the Government last year, he firmly believed that they would produce a revenue of something like 1,700,0001., and if a deficit to that amount could be made up by these measures, why should they have recourse to an Income-tax ? A self-ial posed tax was always much more agreeable to the people thin such a tax as an Income-tax ; by a self-imposed tax, he meant one by which it rested with the people, whether they would pay it dv not, by using or rejecting the articles on which the duty was imposed, in opposition to a tax to collect which the tax gatherer called at the doors and demanded a sum, calculated upon the earnings of the individual, without. the slightest con sent of the party taxed. He had not brought forward this te solution with a view of opposing the present Government— (Hear, hear)—but he believed that other measures might. be adopted which would at once he more beneficial to agr culture and manufactures; aud, believing that, firmly as he did, he thought that he had done nothing more than his ditty in pro posing the amendment which had been laid upon the table of the House.—(Loud cheers.) On the question being put, Lord COLCHESTER rose to make a few remarks relative to the article of sugar. The Noble Marquis, with lies usual eloquence., had described the desire of the people to be able to obtain an increased quantity of sugar, which, he contended, they could not obtain unless the duty on foreign sugar were lowered. He (Lord Colchester) would beg to call the attention of the House to a Committee of that House which was appointed two years ago, open a petition from the Fast India Com' any, for the pur l ose of inquiry here the capabilities of India for produ cing sugar. A great deal of evidence was taken before that. Committee, from which it appeared that a sufficient queroity of sugar could be obtained from those Islands to suppls the whole of this country at the lithe which the Noble Marquis men tioned as a desirable one, sixty shillings ; and if that were the case, he could see no 'casein fir reducing tl Cuty upon for e go sugar . Th e l ate i na d equacy of l supply in those islands had not arisen from the cheeps. from slave to free labour, but from the uncommon droughts which prevails d. He must dissent from the proposition of the Noble A:atop:is, be -cause he thought that the revenue upon which the Noble guts calculated would not be realized by his proposition. whilst our colonies would be considerably damaged if it were aliowe d to pass. Lord BR °LTG HAIII thought that the business would be ex pedited if he lose early to express the opinions which he still entertained upon this subject. He agreed with the Noble Marquis in all his remarks upon the inequality of the Income tax, upc.n its too faithfully pelloi ming its office of extracting money from the pockets of the community, but unjustly, un equally, and oppressively ; and he agreed with the Noble Mar quis, above all, in the feelings to which he so eloquently gave vent upon :he inquisitorial, necessarily inquisitorial, nature of such an impost. There was one quality of the tax, however, which the Noble Marquis omitted to consider, and which he owned, more than all the rest, gave him a repugnance to it, and that was its powerful nature for all 'imposes. Not chat, like the elephant, its proboscis was was equal to picking up a needle, but that it was equal to tearing up a tree or destroyi ng a rock. That, w as a weapon h e wou ld not put into the Lards of any Government, as it was a resource carefully to be con ' fined to times of exigency. . As an ordinary source of revenue, it was one that ought never to be entrusted to any Government. His consent they never should have to raise by a stroke of the pen, any sum of money that' the patience of the people would bear. They had had a sample of the consequences of introducing the Incorne-tae in 1816. In March of that year they destroyed the Income- tax, and as it was in 1816 so it would be now. He entertained The same objecticn he had always felt to this tax ; but when :he question was between tbqdiscredit of the country, between a continuing deficit, year after year, in the revenue—when that deficit went on increasing from year to year, the Parhament was called upon, and positively bound, if it would not desert its duty to its country, to put an end to a state of things which had gone on from bad to worse. The question being how to meet a deficit—a growing deficit, which was, according to one aaleula tion, .upwards of 3,000,0001., and anoth er , 2,500,000/ —such being the deficit to be met, the only question was whether his Noble Friend's plan or ties. Income-tax was best to be adopted, it being admitted that the Income-tax would be the worst, if the other was possible. They had had from his Noble Friend a restatement of the plan of last year, with a slight alteration in the sugar duties. Now he could not help thinking, if his Noble Friends behind him had elways entertained the same hostility to the Income-tax they did at the present moment, they would have adopted a different course of dealing with te spect to it. When the-Government brought it forward, they would have resisted it ; they would not have allowed one single instant to elapse from the moment the proposition was made, before they announced their hostility. Was such, however, the course taken by his Noble Friends'? Did they oppose . it when it was first brought forward ? Certainly not. It was inn o duced on Friday, 11th of March, and a whole week was allowed to elapse before they could make up their minds to oppose it. When it was brought forward, a Noble Friend of his avowed that, as a whole, all parties must clearly admit it was a great plan, and worthy of the Ministers of a great country. That was all the resistance, opposition, and protest that was made against the plan. On Monday, the 14th, an opportunity was given to his Noble Friend of recalling the admission hr had made on I riday, but that opportunity was not embraced, and even on Thursday, when the debate was brought forward, his Noble Friends had not made up their minds upon the subject of the Income-tax. Even after a meeting had taken place in the City, complaining of the injustice of the tax on terminable an nuities, they did not make up their minds; and it was toot till the next week it was determined to oppose the mea sure in the House of Commons ; and his Noble Friend now opposed it candidly, certainly, but faintly. Again, this was to be taken into account, that when grain ws dear, the ports would be open, and the Bs. duty would be eb. tained. But in that very year there would be a deficit of Ex cise, which would have to be set off against all the gain from the fixed duty ; so that upon the balance it would give wet:3.ly no revenue at all. Last of all eame the objection which was the most important and weighty—that it was a tax upon Mod, a bread-tax, which Parliament had no right whatever to levy. Hear.) Still he preferred any fixed duty toe sliding scale-- as much superior to the present slidings case as the latter was to the former one. The Government of last year (according to the declaration of a Noble Friend of his, not made in that House, nor in the other, but elsewhere) brought forwaid the proposition of the Bs. duty neither as a measure of finance, nor. as a measure of relief, but because they were urged by the importunities of their friends and goaded by the taunts of their adversaries. Coming next to the sugar duties, the same per tentage of differential duty was maintained. But he felt it pis duty to protest against the doctrines laid down on this subject by his Noble Friend behind him (the Marquis of Lansdowne). If his Noble Friend would favour him with his attention, he would endeavour to show him that. the reduction of the duty would not be compatible with a desire to discourage the slave trade. It was not to protect the planters he desired, but to protect the Africans in Africa against the slave-trade. What was the case? Our own colonies produced too little sugar. What were the means—the easy means, by which his Nettle Friend proposed to raise a revenue? By taking off 4s. from the duty upon the foreign production, so much revenue, amounting to 750,0001. yielded by the colonial sugar, must be abandoned ; and to gain the 800,0001. of revenue wanted, and expected to be derived from this tax, 1 ; 500,000/. must he raised upon sugar from Cuba and Brad. 'this proposed sub stitute for the Income-tax—this positive and certain means of supplying the deficit in the revenue—must be raised by import ing 100,000 hogsheads of Cuba or Brazilian sugar. It was mighty weal to talk of all the good that would be dane to rite population of our own country—of their comforts, their in creased trade and wealth. But what did it mean but that some 20,000 or 40,000 unhappy Africans should be torn from their homes, carried through all the horrors of the middle passage, to take, in the West Indies, the sugar which was to give that duty?—(Hear, hear.) He agreed with his No ble Friend that sugar was not the only article of slave-labour production. But the two things passing by the same name, were as different as two things similarly named could be. There was no possible comparison, except in the name, between the employment of slave-labour in cotton and in sugar plantations. The slave trade was not to be regarded as an institution of Brazil or Cuba—it was an institution of no country. The Legislature of this country, of all others, owed it no respect.—(Hear, hear.) But the whole propo sition of his Noble Friend went directly to encourage, to fe seer, arid, if possible, to perpetuate it.—( Hear, hear.) He held it to he plainly demonstrated that the instant they lowered their duties on the sugars of Spanish colonies and the Brazilian empire, 40,000 or 50,000 negroes would be taken from Africa to the horrors of the West Indies. This view of the case re conciled him in some degree to the Income-tax. He wonlsi now, however, state scare of the objections which he enter tained to this measure. Knowing the impo.sibility of making any material alterations in the bill as it stood, he would not urge his objections at any great length. He would first suggest to the House that the course which common fearless toware's that House would have semen to dictate was to divide the Bill into two parts. If their Lordships would give their caretul attention to the details of the BR, they would see that there were defects in it which the warmest frieod of the measure niust desire to see remedied ; but there were some iacts relating to the levying of the tax itself, which he was perfectly et., tail. must be altered as soon as their errors were made ma,nifesr. He now referred to that part of the Bill which related' to the appointment of the Commissioners. The tray in which this was arranged appeared to him to be altogether unintelligible. The Land. tiers Commissioners were to meet and to set down in writing the names of such Com missioners as should be appointed under the Act. Then came a provision " that any seven, or any seven of the whole num ber, aud not less than seven, or any less number than seven, out being in any case not less than three of the persons so set down, and in the order in which they shall be, or set down in such list, shale be Commissioners for the general purposes of this Act." Now observe, if the Act required him to take upon him the execution of this Act, he was liable to process to cenipei the execution ; but how was he to know whether he was tee take upon himself the execution of the Act? Hew was he to he indicted and by whom? He could not tell, nor could any one else, whether he was one of the seven. Then it was provided that in case there should be a sufficient number of Com missioners chosen or appointed for general purposes, and see on, and it was not said by whom they were to be chosen. Now, with respect to courts of justice it was provided by the 30th clause that the Lord High Chancellor, the Chief Justice, and the principal officer or officers of each Court, should respec tively have authority to appoint Commissioners. There er as nothing to show what was meant by the term " priecipal (Slicers." By the 191st clause which was the quorum clause, "only two Commissioners " were e na bl e d to execute every power of the Act. Now, observe the consequence. If he put in a claim for exemption, two Commissioners might refuse to grant it, but he might go to the other two, mid those two might :ign a certificate which was binding upon the Commissioners for special purposes. Therefore any two Commissioners might give him the exemption, and the special Commissioners had no option, any more than the Receiver-General. By the 44th clause persons in the situation of trustees, agents, guaraians eif infants, and committees of lunatics, were entitled to de duct from the incomes of those parties coming into their heeds whatever sums they had been assessed with. But then came the 61st and the 165th clause, by which if a perdu e should not have been so assessed as to enable him to deduct, he w.ts to be entitled to be repaid the money which he had advanced. Rut there was no provision to prevent the party from applying the money repaid to his own use. The 166th section was very remarkable. It was there provided, that whoever should he guilty of any fraud, or whoever should fraudulently conceal or —not " and"—or untruly declare any income—scot falsely or merely, but untruly, in optima fide—should be fined 201., sod treble the duty charged. That referred to the principal. What was tube the fine inflicted upon an accessory ? They would naturally say less. But no—the principal being fined 20/. and treble the duty, the accessory was to be fined no less than 501. The parties appointed under this Act had most important func tions to perform; they were judicial functions, and quasi judi vial funcoons. He could not he/p thinking, that it se null have been better to have divided the Bell into two parts, one relating to the portion of the Bill to which he had elk:sled, and the other to the money part of the Bill. They might then t ate made alterations me,vt useful to the measure, and erectiteb'e to the Legislature. The same observations seemed to hint to ajply to the only ether matter xhich he should call their ships' attention to—viz., that part of the Bill relating t„ the examination of wi'ne,ses. '1 lit re was the schedule F' contr.io ing five fin Ins of oaths, to be taken by various functionaries a d officers employed; now, there had been unquestionably great improvements noade in Bills o hieh had passed through tleir Lordships' House ; that of reducing the number of oaths as tar as possible, and substituting declarations for oaths alone. could be effectually and usefully dune. He had no mann, r doubt that one of the best changes they could have made in this Bill, would have been to have substituted declarations iri the place of oaths. So, also, with respect to the exa mination of persons under the 124th section. He had no manner of doubt, it the suggestion he had formerly made of di viding the Bill had been acted on, that their Lordships would readily have leant to the proposition of altering tun-e provisions to which he had alluded. He particularly alluded to section 125. it was lawful to the Commissioners to exa mine any persons whom they thought likely to be able to give evidence respecting the asses•ments made on any other person --neighbours, friends, relatives, all but with one exception, viz., agents. Persons confidentially entrusted might be called Upon and examined with respect 'to the income, cod circumstances, and the expenditure the whole mode of living. The Commissioners 'might examine any per son but the agent. It might be said that a person might • scape from this examination by resilient of 201 But many persons could not afford to pay that, end lie was sorry to say that there would be persons ever ready to give eridene • to the Commissioners. But solicitors might be examined as to the amount they had paid to counsel. Cart espondents could bo examined as to all that hasped between them and their mer chants. Consignees of mer c h an t s i n t h e same way. Trades men as to the affairs of their customers, when they paid their last account, at d what was the amount, and what money was due. There could, therefore, he no confidential trust between the customer and the tradesman. Bankers could he called to give evidence wi:h respect to their customers, and what the ba lance was in their hands. Father could be brought ageinst the son, and the son sgainst the father ; brother against the sis er, tee. Having said so much, he thought their Lordships, fiom the necessity of the case, must accept the measure. He need Lot attempt to prevail en their Lerdships to do that which would be horde: se—even if he did net feel the necessity ( that measure—to reject the mea sure , excep t h e did so aga i n t re mind them of the consequences of that rule being so erro. neously adhered to which excluded their Lordships from Is re vision or correction of those most important Acts ss hich ((tame up fiom the other House of Perham - lent. Thee. had the slower by the conetitutton of that House, by the manner in whirl the busizees was trsnsacted, by the maneet• in which that. House was composed, having within its walls not only statetnien who had adotned this country —men of their professions, if he Could calestatevmen professional—hut the sages of law, as well as the statesmen, judges, those who presided in the tribur.als of the country, who were hest versed in its. lows, the House itself beitig the highest judicial body, as well as a great branch of the Legislature—they had the saner and the capacity to alter arrangements, principles, and details, such as the arrangements and eeteils of this 13111, as accurately, as stringently, as ust fully, as fruitfully as the other House. He had no manner of doubt but that if the treasure had been fraMed ' as he had recommended, he had no hesitation in saying he would not say they would have made the measure better, but they would have rendered it more palatable. This Bill, in its pre sent horn the immense mass on the table, from which his Noble Friend almost shrank, was hideous in its aspect, the arrangements were odious— " Monstrum, horrendum, monstrum infernum, cui lumen in gests atiernptutn."—(Loud laughter. ) Had they been allowed to make those alterations lie hail re commended, the measure would have been more palatable. It would have been relieved from some of its worst defects. He had deemed it his duty, as a Member of that House, to take the course he had done, and to attack the point of privilege claimed by the other House. Lord Ai LL BOURNE said that he fully agreed with the first part of the Noble and Learned Lord's speech, wherein he said that this was a question of paramount importance. It was a question of very great importance ; it was, in his opinion, a question of greater importance than any which had been sub mitted to their Lordships for many years. This was a question which involved not only an immense difficulty, but it involved the safety, the strength, the future power and security of this country. He must say that it was the greatest question since the great question of Reform in the representation in Pal ha went. This was a question not involving party feeling, and ought to be considered only with respect to the well-being of this great community. He should therefore take leave to consider the question, and trusted it would not he at too great a length, but he should trespass upon their Lordships to consider this question in a general point of view. He thought his Noble and Learned Friend found himself in an awkward position.—(Laughter.) The Noble and Learned Lord had altered his position since 1816, as he was then its most active opponent; he then covered the measure with in sect ive, and now he came forward in another character as the supporter of the measure. This seemed to place him in same difficulty, and his situation seemed most inconsistent. Cn the former occasion he heaped his invective upon it, but he gave it his opposition, he now came forward with all his in vective, but he gave the Bill his support. lie (Lord Mel bourne) could not help thinking that this was something like inconsistency,—( Hear, hoar.) His speech and his act were different on that occasion, he denounced the measure as hor - rendum nostrum—( Laughter)—and he, therefore, could not think he was consistent in giving it his support. He ( Lord Melbourne) had the misfortune not entirely to agree with the Noble and Learned Lord. He could not agree with the Noble Lord in supposing that benefits would arise from this measure. Nor did he see the necessity which made this measure neces sary. The Noble and Learned Lord said that this was a tax rendered necessary by war. The Noble and Learned Lord had stated, and he (Lord Melbourne) entirely agreed with him, that this was a tax only to be imposed in time of very great emergency. This applied to any tax. 'I here ought nut to be a duty intposed upon any articles of consumption, or any other tax whatever, that pressed on the community at large, unless there was an absolute necessity for the imposition. Calamities were produced in the time of peace. The greatest calamity which had befallen France. the revolution, was produred in a time of peace at the time of the greatest triumphs which had greatly humiliated this country. Calamities rere just as likely to befal nations in a time of peace as war.—(Hear, hear.) It had been said that the present Prime Minister did not de ceive the people, but he stood by and allowed the people to de ceive themselves. He (Lord Melbourne) did not say that that was true, but he thought it was very well expressed, most capi tally eesiressede—( Laughter. ) He did rot know that it was altogether unjustifiable to (10 so, but he thought it was tsking a very great advantage.—( Great laughter. ) He thought this tax was a measure which would he productive of a great deal of good • he admitted its inequality, but at the same ti me h e thought that the principal objection to it was its equality.— ( Great laughter.) It was impassible to deny that it was of an inquisitorial character, and that having to make a statement of their pecuniary affairs was a great aggravation of the sufferings of the people ; at the same time he must say that a strong ob jection to this tax was the political feeling that raged so high. He only hoped that the Commissions would not be at all influ enced in their conduct by such feelings.—( Hear. ) Another great objection to this tax was hat it would tend to drive ca pital out of the country, but the same objection applied to every tax which was calculated to raise a great revenue. Other ob jections had been •raised. His Noble Friend said that it would produce too much revenue—that it would go beyond the time—but that was very easily remedied. Other taxes could be reduced, which would restore things to their equilibrium.—( Hear, hear.) It had been stated that Govern ment would be extravagant, and the year 1816 had been in stanced as an example which would be followed. He must say that he did not see any great danger on that score. He feared extravagarce, but it was ,the extravagance of the f a n c i es o f Members of Perliament, and not of the Treasury benches, who would be economical enough if they let them alone. He must say that he did not feel generally the objections to this _tax sa stron g ly as they were f e l t b y ot h er persons, b ut he did riot think it a prudent or wise measure in the present stateof the ci untry. He was well aware that the management of the firtinces of the country during the Premiership of his Noble Friend, Earl Grey, was not according- to strict prinei; le. They always trusted too much to the surplus, and did not sufficiently tax the country. But there were eases in which a departure from principle was the right principle. He thought, then, that the country could not bear such a measure as this; that it was better not to go on always forcing, forcing, end so, he thought now. He had no abjection whatever to seising a revenue upon the importation of foreign corn, and the revenue which might be raised from that source would be, in his opinion, of a more certain character than Noble Lords opposite seemed to think. Because the supply and prices fluctuated, and they could not calculate exactly upon the amount of revenue, he did not see why they should not raise:as much revenue as they could on tbat article from a fair and moderate duty.—(Hear, hear.) It did not seem to have been denied, that a revenue could be raised from sugar, and he '(Lord Melbourne) did say, considering the stri r gent nature of this measure, and the prejudices which prevailed gainst it, that it was not wise and prudent to try it till they had first tried every other measure.—( Hear, hear.) He did not think the case sufficiently urgent tojustify such a measure ; and he thought they were throwing away what might by and by be very useful to them., He should say, as Solon said— (Laughter)—when he was asked whether he had given the Athenians the best possible laws. He said, " No; but. I have given them the best they can hear ; " and he thought that that saying would apply to his propositions, when he held the high otlice of Premier. He submitted these measures to the coun try, and he said that the country refused them ; but Noble Leeds opposite said, " No ; they did not object to your mea sures, they. did not object to your principles, but they objected to you."—(A laugh.) That had been said a thousand times, bat he could not. admit it. B ut i t was perfectly competent for Nuble Lords opposite, who contended that it was riot the measures that had been rejected by the country, to propose them again. He could not do so, but they might ; arid he thought it would have been a better course to have adopted, than the one which had been adopted. Noble Lords opposite should, however, recollect that having once entered upon this course they could not re tract, they must fellow it up—once entered upon that course, to recede would be dishonour and ruin. He said this because he wished to guard himself. He should vote against the present measure, but he wished to be distinctly understood that if this course should be adopted, he should reserve to himself the tuli right of supporting her Majesty's present Government, or any .future Government which might happen to he in office et the lime, which should propose. to continue this measure, or to carry it out even to a greater extent.— (Hear, hear.) The Duke of WELLINGTON said, whether the country in deciding again-t these measures decided against the measures or against the men who made them, he did not know. He sup ported this measure upon his own-views ; but those measures to which the Noble Viscount had referred he thought should not have been proposed, and ought not to be adopted. He agreed with the Noble Lord that this measure was totally different from that cf 1816. He considered that it was ore absolutely neces sary to enable Parliament to meet the deficiency in the revenue, arid the exigencies of the country. The Noble Vise count thought that a duty should have been laid upon corn, sugar, end timber ; but he said little in reply to the arguments of the inadequacy of the duty upon corn. hey wanted a cer tain revenue—( Hear, hear)—ail they wanted was certainty.— ( Hear. ) It was quite possible that in scree seasons no corn might he imported, and in other seasons very large quantities might he imported, arid in neither case could the revenue be depended upon. Now, with reference to the duty upon . • sugar. The Noble Lord opposite had objected upon financial grounds to any alteration in the duty neon foreign sugar. He (Duke of Wellington) had taken a very simple view of the case, which was this : This Go vernment had entered into treaties with the Spanish Govern ment and other Powers for putting an end to the slave bade. Those treaties had not been strictly. carried into 'execution, and they knew that large quantities cf slaves were exported from Africa up to this moment; end lie did think, that when ever this m untry made such a concession as to luster the duties on foreign sugars, it would be adding a premium to slavery. lie thought these duties ought not to be lowered, without some security Mr putting an end to the slave trade ; particularly, as he believed, the full demand of this kingdom might he sup plied from their own possessions in the tropics. Under these circumstances, he- thought they ought to consider maturely be fore they lowered the duties on foreign sugar. Considering that the increased per centage on the assessed taxes had failed, and the Excise duties being deficient, he thought no other course then that of the Government could have been adopted. But if the revenue raised by this tax should be more than vvas necessary, there could be no reason why the surplus should not he applied to the remis sion of taxes that should benefit the commerce of the country. This was the purpose :to which it was intended to apply the overplus. The tax must be maintained as long as it might be niece nary. Ile hoped the Government would so maintain it, hut not one hour longer than it should be so re qui: cd.—( Hear, hear.) But if these new duties should be come productive, then they would be able to repeal this tax, from the increase of revenue consequent upon the revival of commeree. By former measures an attempt was made to supply the deficiency of the revenue, but. the promise of those nseaseres had remained unfulfilled to this day. Ile had already I stated that the Government would maintain this tax as long as it might. be necessary, and he would declare for himself, and he belies ed for his colic:titles, that from nothing but necessity should they impose it. He was aware of the nature •of the tax, and of the objectionable powers it imposed ; and the public too, lie believed were aware of its necessity. 'l' hey had for some years been engaged in a set ies of operations which, it they were not war, were as much like it as could well be, and they were now called on to pay the bills, to the amount of ten millions sterling. The deficiency of the Government for this year was mere than two millions, but he trusted that this tax would supply the deficiency in a manner that should also conduce to the prosperity of the nation. Nothing but necessity could have induced them to impose the tax, and he would repeat that nothing but necessity would lead them to continue it. The Earl of' WICKLOW rose amid loud cr;es of question. Considering the nature of the measure, and that only four Noble Lords had had an opportunity'of giving their opinion upon it, he thought their Lordships might carry on the debate beyond a quarter Nit eleven.---( Hear, hear.) He was perfectly ready to accede to an adjournment.—(No, no.) It appeared 111dt this was a tax that was necessary, but that should not have been imposed could a substitute have been found for it. But from the admissions of Members of the late Government, and the fact of . the period of the session at which their measures were brought forward, he came to the conclusion that this tax was an indispensable one. It was the only one that could touch that large portion of the wealthy of this country who sought the pleasures or the conveniences of a fo reign residence; all other taxes this class of per. sons could evade. He regretted that her Majesty's Government had not extended its provisions to Ireland. He regretted this, not from any particular passion for pa y ing taxes, but because he thought it was to be regr e tt e d that Ire land should not bear her just portion of the burdens of the em pire. They must now take the Bill as it was, and he was anxious to learn from the Government how its provisions ;sere to apply to that country at all ? He found that all persons who resided six months of the 3ear in England, or Members of Per il:intent who resided here during the session of Parliament, and for forty days before and forty days after, were exempted. hut how did this act se all regard to Irish proprietors residiers abroad ? Why, it was a bonus to them to reside abroad'. The Irish funds not being taxed, and yet being part and parcel of the funds of this country, an English fundholder coud evade the tax by transferring into the Irish funds. On the other hand, cases might arise in which an Irish fundholder residing in this country might be obliged to pay double. lie, therefore regretted that the tax had not been directly extended to Irelard. He bel erred that a large portion of the wealth of Ireland was spent in this country and Ireland would not get credit for her real share in the contribution. The Earl of CLARENDON would occupy the House but a very short time ; yet there had been some charges age nst the late Government, which he hoped the House would allow him to remark upon briefly. He was glad to observe that the embarrassed state of the finances was not attributed to the mis management of the late Government. The scheme of the late Government was to increase consumption, and thereby to aug ment the revenue. Their first treasure respected corn, and he was glad to see that the ' , resent Government commenced their scheme with the same item.—( Cheers.) With respect to sugar, the estimates of the late Government were never disputed. The Budget of his Right Honourable Friend was not, therefore, the contemptible thing that it had been de scribed. It was not conceived with recklesness, nor brought forward without an intention of carrying it into effect. Thee was no more doubt then than in March, 1842, that the system of protection by which our country was so long oppressed must be broken down. He was glad that the present Government had come into power.—( Cheers.) He was glad, because no measures of general utility could have been carried by the 1 to Goverment in the face of an opposition which now supported the same measures, and asserted upon the hustings, and in the other Houses of Parliament, that they voted, as the supporters of the Noble Duke opposite voted in 1829, against their consciences, to keep their party in power. It appeared to him that the scheme of the Government was one which would drive industry into unnatural channels, and drive it from those in which it had formerly flowed. He was convinced that the new Corn-laws would afford no benefit to the country ; whilst by the new tariff most of the articles of general consumption were left untouched. It was impossible to regard the tariff as a compensation for the Income-tax. 'I he necessity for this measure might easily have been obviated by acceding to the alteration in the sugar duties, which was pro posed by the late Government. The policy of this country on the subject of the slave trade was carefully watched by every country in Europe ; they were watching eagerly for the financial, caring little for the phi lanthropic results of it ; and if they found that we de rived no pecuniary advantage, they would have little induce ment to emancipate their slaves.—( Hear, hear.) 'fhe only plan of putting an effectual stop to slavery, was to show that sugar and other articles could be produced cheaper by free la bour than slave labour. If they proved to the world that their experiment had failed, they would give a greater impetus than had ever been given before to slavery and the slave trade. 111 conclusion, he would ask the House whether it was proper, having refused to relieve the country, by means of an altera tion in the sugar duties, to impose upon the people a tax of so inquieitorial a character as that under consideration? Lord Fitzgerald, Lord Melbourne, Lord Brougham, and the Earl of Clarendon explained, Lord WHA RNCLIFFE said he had thought, up to the time when the Noble Earl (the Earl of Clarendon) had risen, he had never heard a debate conducted with so little party spirit. The Noble Earl stated that they had adopted the mea sures cf the late Government. He denied that such was the case. When the budget was proposed last year, they did not deny that it would be a benefit to relieve commerce from its r e strictions ; but they stated that those who brought forward the measures of relief were not fit persons to carry them into exe cution. Why? Because they had lost the confidence of both Houses ; because they were occasionally in a minority ; because they had thrown themselves on the support of individuals who declared that they were squeezable.—( Hear, hear.) In his opinion there could not be a worse Government than one which did not possess the confidence of the country —( Hear.) The mode of proceeding by Noble Lords opposite was to make experiments. Sugar was one, corn was another, and timber was a third. What the present Government said was, The country has a debt to pay—it has a deficiency to make up; be fore you try experiments make up that deficiency. In the case in which they were placed, the Income-tax was the most suited to the emergency. They were satisfied that the propositions of the late Government were entirely failures. With respect to corn, which had been al luded to by the Noble Marquis, the Noble Marquis said they could have raised 500,0001. He (Lord Wharncliffe) did not doubt this he might have made 1,100,0001. ; but then this was of all taxes the least to be depended upon. It wholly de pended on the season s an d th e weat h er. N ow w i th respect to sugar, What they said with respect to slavery was, that if, in the pre sent state of slavery they imported a large quantity of sugar from foreign countries, they gave a great encouragement to slavery. They must recollect that there were other places which produced sugar besides the West Indies ; there was the sugar from the East Indies, which was not slave-grown. He fully believed th a t th e measures t h ey h ad proposed were calcu lated to benefit the country at large; and finding the state of the country was as they found it, they would have been blame able indeed if they had not brought them forward. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE thought there had berm great waste of time by the party on the opposite side. He would not go into the question of the Income-tax then, as there would be another opportunity of doing so. Lord LYTTELTON could not bring himself to oppose this tax, on the ground that it was adequate to meet the deficiency, without pressing on the working classes. The Marquis of LANSDOWNE, in reply, said, that as he had been accused of being an uncompromising opponent to the Income-tax, he begged to say that he did not think there were any circumstances justifying an Income-tax. There were such circumstances, but they did no t cons i st i n a d e fi c i ency of 2,500,0001. He had never said that slavery ought not to be a constant subject of solicitude ; what he had said was, that, on the subject of the sugar trade negotiations for the suppression of slavery were contracts on paper, and as such were waste paper, and would ebtainnothing for the unhappy people on the coasts of Africa. The Earl of RIPON explained. He had stated that the whole of the plan was erroneous, and justified him in calling upon the House to testify their want of confidence in the Go vernment. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the House divided on the amendment, when there appeared— Contents .. Non-Contents Majority against the amendment — 60 On our entrance into the gallery the Marquis of CLANRI CARDE was on his legs, and moved the adjournment of the debate till ; Tuesday, amidst loud cries of " Go on, go on," and Question, question." Lord KINNAIRD said that he understood the Noble Duke to say that there should be a separate debate on the third read hag.—(" No, no." from the Duke of Wellington.) The Duke of WELLINGTON said he could not govern the debates of the House. What he said was, that the Noble Lord might Celiver his sentiments, but he did not say that a debate was to take place. The Earl of RADNOR did not understand the Noble Duke to say that there should be a debate on the third reading. The Duke of WELLINGTON had certainly explained him self clearly on the psi. t, though he might have been misunder stood by the ;Noble Lord. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said if his motion were resisted he should certainly take the sense cf the House upon the subject. This Rill had been hurried through the House in a most unprecedented manner ; the discussion had been taken upon the merits of the financial measures (tithe Government generally compared with those of the late Ministry, and as they could not discuss the third reeds ' ing of the Bill at that late hour, he should, for the sake of de cency, press for a division upon his motion. The Duke of WELLINGTON contended that clear and sufficient notice had been given of the third reading. 'fhe Earlof RADN( eR supported the adjournment. The Marquis of LONDONDERRY could not see any rea son for such anxiety for deterring the third reading. The Earl of RIPON said - that the object had been already discussed at great length ; and he did not. see why the Bel should rot be read a third time that evening. The Earl of WICKLOW hoped that the Noble Duke would accede to the proposal for an adjournment of the discussion. There were, it appeared, many Noble Lords who were still anxious to address the House on the subject: and under those circumstances he did not wish that the debate should be at once brought to a conclusion. Viscount MELBOURNE would remind their Lordships that a majority, however powerful, was not omnipotent on a question of adjournment. He had often been made aware of that by his experience in another place. The Duke of WELLINGTON said he was in the hands of the House ; but he could see no reason why they shout t net immediately come to a decision in conformity with the under standing which had beers come to on a former occasion. The Duke of NEWCASTLE said he would take every op portunity of voting against the Bill. The question having then been put that the debate should be adjourned until Tuesday next, the House divided; but we were unable to ascertain the numbers on the division. The motion for an adjournment, however, was understood to have been lost by a large majority. On our return to the gallery we found Lord DENMAN stating that he should vote a g ainst the Bill on every stage , an d objecting to th e House preceeding with the Bill at that hour. The iJuke of WELLINGTON said it would be very incon venient if the Bill did not pass that night. The motion had been postponed from Thursday to Friday to suit the conveni ence of Noble Lords, and he trusted the Bill would be passed. Lord RAI:NOR suggested that if the Bill were proceeded with, either then or on Monday, no inconvenience would arise. The Duke of WELLINGI ON said he was not in the habit of stating what he did not. believe to be true. He repeated that great inconvenience would result if the Bill did not pass that night. The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said he thought it was too much to ask the House to pars the Bill at that hour. Lord CAMPBELL said in the other House it was a mat ter of course to adjourn the debate upon the statement that there were several Hon. Members who wished to deliver their sentiments, and he dud not see why there should be one 'ride in that assembly and another rule in the other. tic thoUght that to force on the third reading of the Bill without giv ing an opportunity of further discussion, would not tend to raise the character of that House. Lord FITZGERALD considered that the principle of the Bill had that evening been fully discussed - . he would leave it to the public to decide whether the debate of to-night hail not been substantially on the merits of the Bill To whom was the lateness of the hour to be imputed—to whom was the loss of time to be attributed? Had Lc, time been lost by the motion for adjournment—had 'no time been lost by the call for proxies on the motion? He protested against the as sertion that the had been improperly forced forward. It had been postponed this night se'noight, nut of courtesy to a Noble Marquis. He would leave it for their Lordships to de cide if this motion for adjournment was calculated to add to the dignity of the House in the eyes of the country. The Earl of RADNOR did not impute it as a fault to any body that the Bill had been repeatedly put off. The postpone ments had been occasioned by the illness of his Noble Friend. and of the Noble Earl opposite. The debate on the amend ment of the Noble Marquis had lasted - until one o'clock in the morning They had had no discussion on the principle of the Bill, and he would ask if it was decorous that they should enter upon that discussion at half-past two o'clock in the morning? The Duke of WELLINGTON explained. Lord CAMPBELL did not impute any blame to any person for what had occurred, but he thought that if it were forced on at this hour, b'aine certainly would be imputable to tho.e who forced it forward. Lord REDESDALE recollected that the divi‘ion on the Reform Biil had taken place at eight o'clock in the morning, so that. they had fire urs good yet for debating. Lord WHARNCLIFFE said it was very necessary to pas. this Bill at once, as there Isere arrangements entereit into at the Bank for the 14th of July. The question that the &hate be adjourned was then put, and the House divided, when the motion tot adjournment was negatived, but we were unable to tbtain the numbers. On our return to the gellery, The Earl of RADNOR was on his legs, and moved the ad jourment s f the House. - Lord KENYON said he (lid not see why the Noble Earl should persevere in moving the adjournment. If he wished to speak on the third rt ading he had an opportunity of doing so two hours ago. The only object of the Noble Earl was to delay a Bill which it had been declared by the first Minister of the Crown in that House, would be seriously inconvenient to the public if not passe.l.—(Hear. hear.) He would put it to the Noble Lord if it was decent to persevere ? The Earl of RADNOR would tell the Noble Load can didly that he d d think it decent to persevere ; aid further, that it would be indecent to go to the third reading of the 1411 at such an hour in the morning. He did not shrink because he thought the adjournment would be acceded to. After a few observations from Lord Fitzgerald, the Marquis of Clanricarde, arid Lord Campbell, the debate was postponed till Tuesday, and the House adjourned at Three o'Clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS, June 16. The SPEAKER took the Chair at Four o'Clock. POOR-LAWS. Mr. ROCHE presented a petition from Middleton, in the county of Cork, against the operation of the Poor laws. Mr. BRAMSTON presented a petition from West Ham. prayingfor the discontinuance of the employment of Assistant Poor-law Commissioners. Sir B. HALL presented a petition from the pari,,h cf Maryiebone against the Poor-law s ; a l so anot h er f rom St. Pancras to the same effi,ct. WITNESSES OATHS. • Dr. BOWRING presented a petition from Warrington against the practice of making oaths. CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Mr. F. MAL'LE presented a petition from the county of Roxburgh against the system of Church patronage. MERSEY CONSERVANCY BILL. Lord SANDON moved that the Committee on the Mersey Conservancy Bill have leave to sit and proceed on Monday. Sir T. ACLAND seconded the motion. Mr. GREE NE opposed the appointment of Monday, and proposed Wednesday as being more just to the parties. After a short conversation, Lord SANDON consented to alter his motion to Wednesday. The motion was then agreed to. POOR-LAWS. Captain PECHELL presented a petition, agreed to at a public meeting in Brighto n , aga i nst t h e new Poor-law. Mr. S. CRAWFORD presented a petition from the Guardians of the Rochdale Union, to the same effect. Colonel ,T. WOOD presented a petition from the Guardians of the Whitechapel Union, to the same effect. Mr. S. WORTLEY presented a petition from a union in Warwickshire against the New Poor-law. Lord ASHLEY presented three petitions from Bolton, Hull, and Rochdale, in favour of the Mines and Collieries Bill. Sir W. JAMES presented a petition in favour of a Ten Hours Factory Bill. NOTICES OF MOTION.—POOR-LAWS. Mr. M. GIBSON gave notice that, on going into Com mittee on the Poor-Law Bill, he Would move an instruc tion to the Committee relative to certain clauses of the Bill. Sir ROBERT PEEL said, although he co uld sae melting as t o the nettle of cenducting the inquire w lied nit l tee i tet i en i n stat i ng that her Majesty's G°Y ele in. at did intend to inquire into the subject. REGISTRATION OF VOTERS, Mr. T. DUNCOMBE wished to ask the Right 11 . liantnet, th e S ecretary of State for the Home Pel44 mint, whetla r it was the intention of the Governst to brie g forward any utensil, e in t e course of the rr, sent Sessioe with res p ect to t h e reg i strat i on o f voters? Sir J. GRAHAM said lie would, on Monday n e give an ans wer to t h e quest i on. 01 0 Lord .T. ISUSSELL inquired whether the Govern _ to intended t o bring fin - ward any m ea s ure w ith respect the registrati on o f voters i n Ir e land ? bete Sir it. PEEL sa id he thouget it would be much.e . first to apply t h emse l ves to the subject of Engl i s h r em truth:m—(li( ar, he ar , f rom t h e O ppos i t i on.) 1,1, In answer to a question from Mr. M. O'FERRAlsli'tt Sir R. PEEL said if' they were unable to proceeal La the Irish Dr a i nage Bill on Wednesday, there ho.ln" no objection to remise,; an curly day subsequently., SOU THA M I."I'ON' ELECTION. s ee to Mr. W. O. STANLEY said he would th en proceedd. nominate the Select Committee to inquire into theer e , 7 , ticulars of the Southampton Election Committeee: . ; Mr. Pendarves, Mr. Shiel, Lord Marsham, Lord BesP e ton s Mr. Evans, Mr. Vesey, and Mr. Stewart Wortit a Mr. LIDDELL said he regretted to take up the it of the House on any subject connected. with himself. te l he could n o t h e lp a d vert i ng to a circumstance conird with the Committee appointed by the Hon. and LO I O 'Member fin. Cork. He (Mr. Liddell) came dosi! a i breakfast that morning, and for the first time }Wi e r that he had been appointed by the Hon. Me iri nt , for Cork On a Committee of a shnilar to , turn to that . just moved for by the lie e o r e able Member. That wits the first intimation D e ', ceived of the intention of the lion. and Learned G en e l man of placing his name on the list. Nuw, lie .her - e f he could not b e charged with neglectin g t h e husinef°, t s the house, but he really thought it was only tires any Hon. Member, before he was called uPOP aet e give his time and attention to a soul se of proc7, ing of som ew h a t l arge c h aracter—for they .I'lo from exp er i ence t h at I r i s h election questions vvereo likely to be o f a moment ' s d uration—it was but fair I;et some intimation s h ou ld b e g i ven to the Hon. Me!„00 who was t o b e appointed. He had alr ea dy serv ed' 1 one Election C omm i ttee , an d foreseeing that e i h f motion would be b roug ht on, h e sent i n to . 1 0 Clerk of Committ ees an i nt i mat i on that he expecgtiy be exempt fro m serv i ce of a s i m i lar character durlogeself course of the pr ese nt sess i on. H e therefore hessu leave to decline, with all deference to the :ion., Learned Gentleman, his attendance upon the Contrane Mr. HUME said, that he believed the name of I _:a , lion. Gentleman was suggested to his Honourable i Learned Friend, NNho was not i n hi s place, by the iii6(7iol lion. Gentleman opposite. He believed his llon.?'!„, Learned Friend h a d not hi ng to d o with giving the Pt!, and no blame, if !l ame t h ere was, could attach to:P7 POOR-LAW BILL. Sir JAMES GRAHAM, in rising to move the 171 , t of the Day for the second reading of the Poor-laW. said, that as he had already explained to the H° e. principles on which this measure rested, he trustee } e i s House would excuse him for not again going over 2 same ground, and h e wou ld , t h ere f ore, content bi 7 with moving that this Bill be read a second time. GOLD COINAGE. Mr. C. BULLER said, lie did not wish to opplele, Order of the Day being read on any ground cuetaer - t 4 O with the Poor-law, of which he was a supporter, bo i i d wished to call the attention of' the House, t o a subjef„l importance, namely, the recent conduct of Govern, with regard to g o ld co i n . B e k new that, aceordia) the new rules, and he allowed they were wise 0 0 '0 eas not admissible for him to make any ansetabn ot i on the Orders of the Day which was not conate. with the subj e ct, b ut he might move th a t anot l ea rte j be read in its stead, and he should move that tl to Ur '` of the D a y f or go i ng i nto a Committee of. sivi be now taken. Be did not wish to '. 6-, 7 '' thing ehich would interfere with the egitire -1 l public business, b u t th e su bj ect to which hie, Vi. ': 4 l is bi to call the attention of the House was. 00 4 urgent importance, and had occupied more2i"l the attention of people out of doors, as being ?On" and pressing g r i evance , t h an any other subiriai (Hear, hear)—and it was rather discreditable '', (4) A lf House, that th e quest i on h ad not been a i r discussed, and that the Government shot*" 1 their own auth or ity b e a ll owe d to adopt the prose e. A they had without th a t H ouse di scuss i ng the propriek, Ile informed the Right H on . G ent l eman, the Chan f e., e of the Exchequer, o f hi s Intent i on to bring this s'/ - ! under the considerati on o f t h e H ouse, who informs 4,„0 that he was not p re p are d to g i ve any infornnii! t on the subject. He did not NViSil to be ,pre.o' - 'd from bringing for war d a su bj ect o f such imporo%?' but if no obstacles were interposed, he had no olejer to bring it for Ward on Monday • but if otherwi, , should proceed with it now. ' lt would be mi / i ', a mockery of the rules if they were made use 'oe 0 prevent a matter of such importance being disio• ~ _. Therefore if the Right Hon. Gentleman wished hitsSlie i to go on with the subject till Monday he would, •enje • the question—(Cries of " Go on")—otherwise lie if v so,7* oppose the order of the day till this subject wag WAraj' under discussion. • ee r a Sir R. PEEL sa id, t h at t h e H on. Gentleman hat Li : given notice of bringing on this subject. -It had P4i. , ':; pet fectly open, yesterday, to call the attention 0 Ijiieil House to the subject, when he could have given nt Vie The Honourable Gentleman had not dune so, s' 's . . , is on that ground he (Sir Robert Peel) decid objected to the Hon. Gentleman's proeee. oat! . with the m a tter now. It was a thi ng qu i te con trar f, c 010, the (tours° usu a lly p ursue d . Wi th respect to Morli....clt. A it could on that d a y b e d eterm i ned whether the etile:, sought to be now p ursue d was i n conformity wit ' . „ . rules of the Hous:. t • bea , The CHANCELLOR o f t h e EXCHEQUER 00 5 t o ) to state what had occurre d. Ab out two or three Poinll4 ago, the Hon. Gentleman opposite (Mr. C. Buller) Pir)`= axcl come over to him ( t h e Chancellor of th e Ex tz ,e, and mentioned th a t h e mean t to move another Ords rei i3 7 o •., Day than that for the second reading of the Poor - Aniendmeite Bill, with a v i ew to b r i ng i ng under ! diSCIl ge o e -. sion the subject o f t h e go ld co i nage. He (the Chanc e 4 of the Ex c h equer ) to ld t h e H on. Gentleman that be •to not come down t o th e H ouse w i t h a v i ew to .11000 that subject discussed, consequently that be CO it give but very imperfect information on the matter. t , ~,: was Nirtually a b reac h o f t h e O r d ers of t h e House ' t O 0 4% • tempt to introduce this discussion on the OrderoftherL s 4 • Mr. C. BLLLER had di st i nct l y stated in the 0i7,,i.:, mencement of his rem ar k s , t h at i f h e would he 8110 1 , 11 , 4';,, to bring the question fo rwar d on M on d ay, he was rea d y to put it off till that day. Th e reason h e h ad not g"t 7, 6 „ ; notice, was b ecause i t was customary to give 1 1 .t.„•, tice of amendm en t s , b ut hi s i ntention was simply to • •: oppose the Ord er o f t h e t iny. He would now give vacl se that un Monday next h e s h ou ld b r i ng the subject forsve r( e'' POOR-LAWS. , .. The Order o f th e D ay was then read for the serer , '': reading 01 :h e P oor -l aw A mendment Bi.l, when . i i, ee : Colonel WOOD p resente d a pet i t i on against the gent i -. rat principle of the Bill. Captain PECHELL presented a petition to the s" . e ,, e ' t effect from B r i g h ton . The Hon. Member also r . 'LA , sented a petition f rom th e G uar di ans of the Poor; 0- es, parish of Brighton against the Bill. Al so petitions, fq e . Warrington and other places again s t th e clause ti' s Bill abolishing the Gilbert Unions. Mr. LEADER presented a petition from the 'pat e 's of St. James, Westminster, against the Bill. George. :SI Mr. B. WOOD p resente d a petition from St. ' the Martyr, Southwark. against the Bill. - e On the motion for the second reading of the I fill bei°g''Y'' read, Mr. S. CRAWFORD rose to move that the B ill be re.d a second tim e th at d ay t h ce months. From tb e 1191 e, made by the larg e num b er o f M. m b ere who titee ,h gge ted `' e House, it was impossible to catch the Hon. ) lathe ' it ,- . ''a observations for some mi utes. In the first 1 senteW e e , s , that could be cau g h t , h e was referr i ng to . the ( P oe ' Sas one o f t h e most v i tal to • the l et ,_,, 1 rests of the n a ti on w hi c h could cot ne ° eo n: ; t ..discussion. He should, th e r e f ore , beg tle atteo"o•''l of the Hou se w hil e h e en d eavoured to ma!te. out aceio .: •:" - t" for the motion of which lie had given not ce. 'I g oe: : : ,; : the Right Hon. Baronet, the Secretary fo r tht Home at ::' :', r . pertinent, introduced the Bill into the House, Is ereferre o e . ', > certain extracts from the speech of Lord 1 itsough s° .to. the occasion of his introducing the measure .s° .i f..; the House o f L or d s . • Having d one s o,he( to ' 1 Sharman Cr aw f or d) was at liberty t o refer 0 ~ - other extracts from the same speech, in ord a e!„ r d, , show what w ere t h e sent i ments of the : goble no . ' The Right Hon. B aronet had quoted these pa regl ll i e g from the Noble Lord's speech, for the purist)! ie. orshe%ro 1 that the Commi ss i on was not appointed in or ter t,, , prl be i uniformity in the administration of the Poor-law.. 1,. - :-, Hon. Member t h en rea d two passages from the scais referred to.) He had thus shown, upo I et bf,, high authority, w h a t was t h e o b ject contempl ttejeg. e j l i the Bill. B u t th e Bill i tse lf did not attain that id The last Report o f th e C omm i ss i oners express. Por different sentiments, anti eery different d it e ees er nations, from th ose ma d e use of in - their cc oe ld Reports. It was necessary, then, that he : s aca rys briefly ref e r t o t h e b ac k Reports of the v for ; missioners to show what were their opinith 0 t he inerly of the mode of administering relief P o re Seventh Annual Report, page 42, the Commi isi? t o A stated that a.l their proceedings had been dire( tet a faithful execution of the designs of the Leg s t u n. la a , o more perticu arty as regarded their admit); SP': io o of relief ; and they had came to the co eal l ' op t- that it would be desirable to withdraw t 11' _ o re door relief, front able-bodied people ; and there ' d o 'H , only seven cases in which exceptions were made, s er il i c edt . the whole of these cases the Commissioners rex - 1 " de' :: r.nd explained the reason which induced them , tourer part front the rule they had l a id d own. In eve - r: ' vi, 0 instance, the Commiss;oners i ns i ste d t h a t t h e i r i i e`iiiei- before exp resse d, s h ou ld b e carried out without it 00' ate- e's tuition or restriction ; and in a certain manufactu rl ye d, trite where the operatives were only partially et py i t hew the guardians, by their advice, would not aff. 0. ..,, 0e 5e. any relief, except they consented to enter the woe k .'., . But there were cases of a still more extraordi fair y b ° titre, and to these the attention of the House sl Pi t a ids. directed. (The Hon. Member then read a statent en o ak respect to the Bridgewater Union.) No v: :oe erS, having been the proceedings of the Commi Se; Ile . , lie would ask if the system were right ?---(fiee rb'i that now cunt() to the Eighth Report. It ens remark , t , %ell there were views expresecd in this Be? ' o r cei in dali.rent from ally that had been exPri, je t; . se" t the previous ones on the subject of out-door re- ~,,, Os, - ;:± he • thought the Commissioners should explain v gi b)' 4111(1 . 'l 'Report diMred front any other. It the Com mission , r era ti cs that their former recedents ne re wrong let t' !.. s o - r !)e. knoe ledge themselves in error, but let not the tv . sto te . ~ cetreed. It was a great evil in the of the law, that, there was no fixed ; ; ITsi' s '176(1 the r In the case of Bridgewater the Commissioners _,_ fi no blame on the guardians. If' neither the Como s r‘ A preset , .%! .hio.. SUDBURY ELECTION. Mr. BLACKSTONE gave notice that, on the bring ing up of the Report of the Sudbury Disfranchisement Bill, he would move that the Report be re-committed. SCOTCH CHURCH. Mr. FOX MAULE presented a petition from the Assembly of the Church of Scotland. The petition stated that patronage in the appointment of ministers was opposed to the principles of the Church of Scotland; that in the years 1649 and . 1690 the laws referring to this matter were repealed ; that the enactment of 1712 was unanimously regarded as a breach of the set tlement, and an infringement of the rights of the Church ; that the exercise of patronage had been attended with great injury to religion, and was a fruitful source of dissension ; and that it was the cause of the present difficulties of the Church. The petitioaars, therefore, prayed the House to repeal the Act of Queen Anne relating to this subject, The Hon. Member then proceeded to say, with reference to the noti ce which he had given to bring this question before the House in the form of an address to her Majesty, that upon further consideration of the subject, and seeing that his motion would be attended with no further result than a divi sion rejecting the motion—foreseeing, also, that that discussion would not be conducted with satisfac tion to himself, owing to the absence of his Honourable Friend the Member for Leith (Mr. Rutherford), he had resolved not to .pursue farther the notice which he had given for Monday, the sth of July, reserv ing to himself, at the same time, the power, should circumstances rendering it necessary arise, of calling the attention of the House at a future period to the question. He must say .that he regretted the course which the Government had thought it right to pur sue in not taking this matter into their own hands. He thought the initiative ought to come from the Go vernment, and being of that opinion he would leave it to the Government for another year, and if they did not then take it up, he should bring forward some measure on the subject himself: Sir ROBERT PEEL said, after what had been stated by the Right Hon. Gentleman, he must be allowed to say a few words. hler Majesty's Government, if the Hon. Gentleman had brought the subject forward, would not have deprecated discussion ; if such a discussion had taken place, be should have stated the grounds on which the Government had Sean doned the hope of doing any good by legislative enact ment at the present time. He was deeply impressed with the importance of the subject, and nothing would be more sa' isfactory to her Majesty's Go vernment .han that the good senss and modera tion of the people of Scotland should afford the mums of putting an end to these unfortunate differenci.s. Lord J. RUSSELL could not agree with his Right Hon. Friend that the present was a fitting opportunity for the Government to consider thy question. He hoped however, that an opportunity would shortly arise, arid that during the interim the Government would consider the subject. He was willing to leave the matter in the hands of the Government. Mr. CAMPBELL said he could see no good in casual discussions of the question that could lead to no practical result. lie had abandoned his intention of introducing a Bill, in consequence of technical objections, by which his hands were completely tied up. He was glad that the Hon. Member for Perth had taken the course he had done, and he only regretted that he had'not consulted with the clergy of Scotland, before he had given his notice. IRISH TITHE DEFAULTERS. In answer to a question from an HON. MEMBER, Lord ELIOT said, the amount of motley due from he defaulters in Ireland had not been returned, in con sequence of some difficulty in separating the legal ex penses from the other items. Captain LAYARI) asked the Noble Lord, the Secre. tary for Ireland, if he had received any oficial intelli gence of the recent retreat of the military before the people in Ireland ? Lord ELIOT said, he had not received any officiel information on th e su bj ec t ; b ut h e had received a private letter, from which he trusted that et, serious consequences would s result from the move ment. In answer to a second question, ther.Noble Lord stated that the warrant for the Special Commission re cently appointed, was dated the 10th of June that it would be opened at Clonmel on the 28th, before the two Chief Justices of Ireland. He could nut suy who were to be the Counsel, but t44e Attorney- General would appear on behalf of the Cros n. His Noble Friend the Lord Lieutenant, after due con sideration of the subject, and acting under ihe advice of the Law Officers of the Crown, had come to a conclusion that a Special Commission, by which prisoners would be tried at Clonmel previous to the Assizes, would be at tended with salutary effects. Sr H. W. BARRON said that the Commissien was to be opened on the 25th of June, and the Assizes were to commence on the 4th of July, so that the country would be put to a considerable expense to hasten the trials by a few days. The Hon. Gentleman was proceeding to make some further observations when he was interrup ted by loud cries of " Order, and " Chair." ' The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Gteilleman would not be in order in commenting on the reply given to a question put to the Noble Lord the Secretary for Ireland. RELIEF OF THE POOR IN SCOTLAND. Mr. E. ELLICE, jun.. said he wished to put a ques tion to the Right Hon. Baronet on a subject:4f great im portance to Scotland. It would be in the refollection of the House, that towards the close of the last session, in consequence of representations which were 'made to the House of extreme distress and destitution existing in certain parts of Scotland, the House • appointed a Committee to inquire into that distress, and to ascertain how far it might be remedied by means of emigration. He wished to Ask the Right Hon. Baronet whether the attention .of the Government had been directed to the evidence taken before that. Committee, and whether, taking into consi sideration the actual destitution in manrpar-s, the in• creasing distress throughout Scotland, and the utter insufficiency of the present law for the purpose of aflOrding any general relief, it was the intention of th e Government to recommend any immediate treasures to Parliament, or to substitute any general inquiry, with a view of extending the system of compulsory' relief to the poor, or of adopting measures for the improvement of the law of Scotland, or of the present administratien of it on such a subject ? Sir ROBERT PEEL said her Majesty' ; Govern ment had had their attention directed tc the pre sent state and practical operation. of the law in Scotland with respect to the relief of the poor, and more especially in the large. towns aed manufacturing districts. But they did net intend to propose any alteration in the laws in the course of the present session, thinking that very serious consideratien and full inquiry ought to precede any legislation upon a subject of such immense importance to the best interests of Scotland. At the same time he had no hesitation in stating Oat his own opinion was, that the law, with respect :0 the relief ee the poor in Scotland, especially in large tpwes, %% as at present very detective, and that it wa a subject well worthy of consid erat i on. B ut, as h e had said before, he thought legislation ought not to leetttempted with out full deliberation as to its eenseqtrieet;. Mr. E. ELLICE, jun., said th e 'Tight Honourable Baronet had n et sta t e d w h et h er i t ,as, the in tent i on o r the Government to institute ince)" into the p resent r d e d ,ykl an d generally. condition of the l a w, as rega THE SUN, LONDON, SATURDAY MORNING, JUNE is, 1842, ti c~ ~.. u~ ."' ({f . • • b- fa; tt •th - 0 ha • ,rn to , t o lAA . Sor to Nvit ttal had • ,insi Ati v th, teal 110