The Sun. — London, England, 1842-03-16 00:00:00

county to the charge of another month's delay before the trial I grounds for the opinion that the belief of the contagion of the came on. Now it seemed to him (Mr. Buller) that such a slgue had been very much exaggerated. He believed that coarse might be attended with a worse and more serious con- ! there was no instance of the plague having been carried from sequence. He understood that on al occasion when a party ' Egypt to India, nor from Egypt to Mecca and the Holy Cities. had applied for an immediate trial before the Judges, it had I When the plague appeared in the armies of the East, they were been refused unless certain conditions wete complied with. ; always removed to the desert, and, he believed, there was no That Was an abuse in the administration of justice which had instance of the armies ,having been removed to the open dis neverbefore been heard of; andhe therefore felt it is duty to call i tricts, without a complete cessation of the plague resulting. the attention of the House to the subject. although he was aware People in this country were often alarmed at receiving o i that he had give n n notice of such an intention upo n his p ar t letters or bales of goods from the Levant, but it was to Right Hon. Baronet the Secretary for the Home De- well known that these kind of articles were sold in the public partraeht. He hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would think it bazaars in the East and the itlussulmans bought them ;it was consistent with his duty to make an inquiry into the s u bj e ct, d e t rac ti n g nothing from their value that they had been in the and to give the House any information he possessed with le- possession of people who had died of the plague. He re gard to it. me mbered, when he was in Asia Mine r , th at i n t h e neighbour- Mr. BANKES said it would be in his power to give an hood of Smyrna there were four villages much afflicted with answer in some respects to the questions of the Hon. Member, the plague; there was a constant communication between them but he should not be able to answer the whole of them. The and that great city, yet th ere was no i nstance of plague iu Hon. :Member had not stated the ground s o f th e i n f or mation Smyrna. The same was precisely the case with regard to which he now laid before the House, nor had he stated whether Cairo. He would now advert to the lazarets. He held in be had better information than the public at large were fur- his hand aletter which h e h a d rece i ved from an eminent nished with in the columns of the news p a pe rs o f the day. The traveller with reference to the violation of quarantine in the practice and experience of the Hon. and Learned Member south of Spa in . I n that letter the gentleman asked if he should have suffidently satisfied him that the charge, as stated thought that he would be such a fool as to subject himself to in the newspapers, could not be completely proved, because he an impriso nment of several weeks becauae he hadk been in must be aware that ne Magi s trate s coul d , even if it w ere their fri..a ; he h a d never entered a lazaret and never would. 'desire to so, proceed in the manner which he (Mr. E. Blab. H s e held in his hand a series of answers to questions ad. i ler) had stated, and that it was not in the power of the Magis- dressed by the C onsu l at Al exan d r i a to med i cal men trates to preclude the jurisdiction of the Judges in the way established at Cairo. The first question was, what was their the Honourable Member had pointed out. He had very j opinion of quarantine? T o thi s th ey answere d t h at quarant i ee c.early stated, not only that it was in the power , but I was established to preventtlieplague from penetratinginto Egypt, that it was the duty of the Judges, when they opened the I but they b e li eve d t h e system of quarantine to be without utility. Assizes, to deliver the gaol, and no Magistrate could , by any In answer to questions he had put to Dr. Allen, an English yossibility, preclude the power which it was the duty of those t gentleman, in the service of Mehemet Ali, he was informed Judges to exercise, and which, if they did not exercise, it would I by him that th e p l ague m i g h t b e cons id ere d , to a certa i n ce be an abandonment of duty. He (Mr. liarikes) had n o t any , gree, as indigenous to Egypt. He did not believe that country information as to the act which had been the groundwork of I was ever entirely free from it, but he had never known it to be the matters to which the Hon. and Learned Member has re- ' imported. It was ascertained, he said, that even post mortem (erred, and it was h's intention to have applied to his Hon. examinations had been taken without communicating the dis. Friend to know whether he had received any information with ease. That was the statement of a gentleman thoroughly respect to the circumstances alleged to hate taken place; that acquainted with the subject. He read another passage to show they could have taken place in the manner stated appeared to how insecure our protections were, if the disease were what it him (Mr. Bankes) to be perfectly incredible. He could not was said to be. The passage was to the effect, that a number therefore, believe that the facts had been truly stated. With of bales of cotton was sent to England, which had been taken reference to the other observation which the Right lion. Gen- from stores where the plague was raging, and the plague was elernan had detailed, he (Mr Bankes) could give some better on board the ship when the cotton was pa ked. Now, information the House. It had been observed by the maxis . if no disease were imported, in cases of this kind, /rates of the county of Dorset, amongst whom he had the which frequently occurred, would any man in his senses honour - •to hold the place of Chairman of Quarter believe that the plague was an imported infection ? If the Sessions, that the expenses of a prosecution at the As- result of an inquiry should show that the quarantine rectrie sizes • had' increased to an enormouse extent. He tions could be dispensed with, or mitigated without danger to wrote the other day to the Clerk of the Sessions, the public health, her Majesty's Government should endeavour to ascertain what was the comparative expense of a trial at the to bring about arrangements for the purpose of effecting Quarter Sessions. It appeared from the reply that the charge a consummaeion so advantageous to commence. He concluded of the expense of a person being tried was 161. 10s. At first, by moving the resolution. after the passing of the Bill for allowing a counsel to prisoners, Sir ROBERT PEEL said he had no objection to offer to one guinea was all that was (not required, for they all knew the motion, and accordingly it was agreed to. that barristers required nothing) offered for the services THE SCOTCH CHURCH. of the barrister. But the charges for the attorney e and draw- Sir A. LEITH HAY said he had considered it is duty to ing the brief, now made the charge amount to three or four call the attention of the House to the present state of the guineas. This was so serious an addition to the charge that Church of Scotland. He did that upon no principle of the Magistrates of the county to which he belonged thought it secterien partizanship, and for no political or party Worthy of their consideration ['hey had addressed a re- purposes; but, however, connected as he was with that coun specaful communication to the Judges, requesting them to try, he felt that if that state of things which at present existed, discriminate and point out the cases that really required the and which had unfortunately existed for many years, was suf assistance of counsel, that it might be given in those fered to continue, it would not only be detrimental to the esta cases only. When they considered the number of cases blished Church of Scotland, but injurious to the best interests sof a trivial character, in which the property affected was very of the country. He was especially induced to bring forward trifling, and the nature of the offence slight, it was really a the subject by; the unsatisfactory answer which hail been given, erious charge to the country to pay 16/. for all such cases as at the commencement of the Session, to a question put by his to see. With respect to the particular inquiry which his Hon. Right lion. Friend, the Member for Perth to the Right Hon. anti Learned Friend now brought under the attention of the Baronet, the first Minister of the Crown. In reply to that ques- Ino use, he (Mr.Bankes) would support it fur his own satisfactioe tion, the Right Hon. Baronet stated, that if he did determine and that of his brother Magistrates. It never was dreamt of upon putting an end to the differences which existed between by ithere to seek to rid themselves of those new burdens which, the Ecclesiastical and the Civil Courts in Scotland, he would however, he trusted the Judges would not continue to impose give ample notice of his intention. That produced a laugh in on them longer than was necessary. the House. The Right Hon. Baronet proceeded to state, that Mr. E. BULLER thought he had not overstated the facts he would not pledge himself to bring forward any measure of the'case. He had understood from a party on circuit, that on the subject, and he concluded with stating that he would an application had been made, that those parties, against whom give no pledge that he would not introduce such a measure. no persons appeared for the purpose of proceeding with the In these unfortunate circumstances, if he thought there were prosecution, should be discharged. On this occasion the one of more influence in the House, likely to bring this ques- Judges threw down briefs to counsel, and ordered the parties to tion forward, he would not have intruded; but living in the be prosecuted at the expense of the Crown. midst of the heats, animosities, and confusion excited by these The Bill Was then read a first time, circumstances, nothing could be more derogatory to his duty INCOME TAX. as he thought, than to remain silent when he had an opportu -1141-r. M. GIBSON wished t o ask the Right Hon. Baronet nity of expressing his feelings.—( Hear, hear.) He was not - whether it was his intention that the income tax should b e about to enter into long historical details respecting the Church :levied on parsons receiving pensions chargeable oo the Con- of Scotland ; nor did he mean to in rude his own particular wolidated Fund, under the authority of Acts of Parliament. opinions ; but he would prefer quoting authentic documents to Sir ROBERT PEEL said (a s we understood) that it was show what others, whose opinions were entitled to the highest 3-,is intention that the salaries of such officers, as the Hon. weight in the country, on former occasions expressed, with ad- Gentleman referred to, should be liable to the tax. He ( Sir miration, of the Church of Scotland as an establishment R. Peel) regretted that the Hon. Gentleman had not given worthy of every protection arid support. First, he would refer Lim notice of the question. As he had so many questions on to the Report of a Committee of that House, and which the the subject—( Hear, hear)—he would wish to be as accurate Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government would re. as possible in his replies. He therefore trusted the Hon. memberthat Report said,"No sentimenthadso deeplyimpresseed Gentleman would postpone pressing his question to Friday next. itself on the minds of the Committee, in the course of a long Mr. Al. GIBSON said he bad objection to postpone his and laborious investigation, as that of veneration and respect nuoistion to to-morrow (this day), but he could not consent to ' for the Established Church of Scotland." Next, he would put it off further, particularly as the time which would elapse quote the individual opinion of the Right Hon. Baronet res bee we the income tax should come into operation was so short pecting the Church of Scotland. It was in these words—" He that people had hardly time to make up their minds upon the considered it a most important and useful instrument for pro matter. pogating true religion ; suited to the country, with reference to .111 r. WA KLEY said, that really those questions were ex- its past history and its present condition, and calculated to ceedingly annoying to the Right Honourable Baronet.— maintain those principles of order and tranquility which were (Laughter.) '1 he only way in which the Right Hon. Gentle- insecure unless based on a sense of religion." This was the man would get rid of them was to give up the income tax Establishment that was now suffering accumulated misfor altogether.—( Laughter. ) tunes, and was the British Legislature to look on without at- CHINA. tempting to apply some remedy to circumstances which Mr. BLEWITT wished to know from the Right Hon. were appalling to every lover of his country—(Hear.) Baronet, whether the Government had made up their minds as and every one that had its best interests at heart? It .was not to the permanent occupation of Hong-Kong. for him to mark out the particular line of duty which the Sir H. PEEL said that the Hon. Gentleman must be aware Government and the LeOlature ought to adopt, but he thought that the differences between this country and China were still that the time had arrived when it was absolutely necessary unsettled, and pending the war, he (Sir Robert Peel) must to legislate in a prompt, effectual, and final manner to settle decline answering such a question as that now put by the this question. It was known to many Members of the House Hon. Gentleman. and to to the country generally, that the establishment of the QUARANTINE. Church of Scotland with regard to the power of presenting minis- Dr. BOWRING rose, according to notice, to move a reso- ters, was fixed by the Act of the 10th of Queen Anne, passed in lution to the effect, that her Majesty may be graciously pleased 1711; that act established the right to present to parochial churches to continue the inquiries made in foreign countries as to the ia lay patrons without reservation. That act had been acted efficacy of the Qnarantine system, and to carry out any nego- on for may years, ever since in fact, without question, until the ciations which may have for their object such modifications the questioh of the right of patronage was challenged by certain as are consistent with the public safety and the interests of persons, who formed an association in Scotland, called the commerce. Also, to lay on the table of the House, any cos- Anti-Patronage Society—the date of that society was 1824, but respondence, or extracts of correspondence, which has take n it was not till ten years after; in 1834; that it acquired any im eace since the last capers were ordered' for presentation. portanee, when the Supreme EccleCiaseiCal Court passed an act, He )anew the titan l' ct was not of art entertaining nature, but it called the Veto Act, -for the purpose of givingehapeople a voice was afsgreat importance, and he besought the - patience of the iin the choice of their own ministerowhieb wee not consistent,as Houses , whilst •• he laid before ' them . the geourids on was held by the Civil COurts; .willithe act On - Which the law which— he Formed - this ' resolutiotre A doubt as rested. It vsasimpossible to read these two acts without com to the infectious nature of - plague had , been preva, ' ing to the conclusion that they could not co.eitist with good Go.. lent _-for some `time • previous to - 1818, when a Corn- vernment, - sound policy, and the stability Of the Church. If xnittee of. the House was apnointed to inquire into the allege- such was the position of things could it be possible th a t th e Lions of Mr. MttLean, a surgeon of eminence, who h a d wr itt en , Le g i s l a t ure wou ld a ll ow the people of Scotland to remain in such much to prove that the plague was not infectious, and that ! circumstances. Ile was not arguing the case on his own quarantine laws were unnecessary and mischievous. That ' authority. It must be known to Members of the House Committee- reported that it was not advisable to repeal those I that the first authorities pointed out the absolute necessity of lawn . "In - 1822 another Committee was appointed, which made • legislation on the subject. The first person he would quote was at least one 'important concession, that since the year 1665, Lord Aberdeen, who said, in his place in the House of Peers, there had been no instance of infection from plague in England.' I on the 31st of March, 1840:—" It appears to be so clearly the In 1835 the subject was brought before the British Association duty of her Majesty's Ministers to propose a measure to Parlia fur the.. Advancement of Science, and that important bodyre- ment upon a question so immediately affecting the peace and (erred it to the me di ca l sect i on, w h o recommended that an at- good order of the community, that I. take it 'for granted the i tempt should be made to induce the Government to appoint a responsible advisers of the Crown will not abandon a duty so Commission fit the purpose of prosecuting and completing a imperative." That was the opinion of Lord Aberden in March thorough investigation of the sunject. The question was lately 1840. On the 19th of June Lord Aberdeen said, in the House acquiring great importance, and when he considered the posi- of Lords, that he thought the then existing state of things in Lion of Egypt, which stood midway between this country and ' relation to the Scottish Church, justified their Lordships in its possessions in the east, and that in British India there ex- , looking to her Majesty's Government fur some interference. • isted no quarantines or lazarets—no impediment to the corn- That was the opinion of the present. Secretary of State for Foreign munic-ation of travellers, or the conveyance of goods—he thought Affairs. The next opinion which he should quote regarding the the fact was strong against the system. There was no difficulty state of the scotch Church, was the opinion of one whose name in the way to a person travelling through Egypt to he could never mention without the deepest feelings of venera- Bombay, Madras, or other parts of India. In the East Indies the tion—he meant the Duke of Wellington.—(Cheers.) The opinion was against the doctrine of contagion, and it was the Duke said, that if the Kirk were disposed to listen to mode opinion of five medical persons, appointed by the Governor• rate councils, he slid not apprehend there would be much diffi- • General to investigate the subject, that lazarets and quaran- culty in bringing the matter to a settlement. He (the Duke tines afforded no security. It was obvious that the quarantine of Wellington) thought the Kirk should recollect that its uti aystem was a great embarrassment to commerce, and it eat not lity depended in a great measure upon its intimate connexion easy to form any estimate of the loss caused by it. He had with the State ; and the Noble Duke went on to state that h e i beard the annual loss from the quarantine system estimated at considered it desirable that the Kirk should state clearly what between two and three millions, and he believed if th e l os ses in course the) proposed to adopt, in order that it might be made the Mediterranean were added, they would make up a similar the sulject of an Act of Parliament. And the Noble Duke amount. If two veaels started from the same port, and one concluded by stating, that in better times (nu doubt meaning .of them occupied two months longer than the other in this when himself and his friends should be in power), with good voyage, they were subjected to the same quarantine, though it men, actuated by good intentions, it would by no means he netts well known that the longer the vessel was at sea the less impossible to come to a satisfactory settlement of the ques ncas any plague likely to be conveyed by it. /lc received a two. These were the strong testimonies he had to offer. letter from a naval officer sshcse authority would be of great as an excuse for himself, in calling upon the Government of weight wink the House, Captain Basil stall, who wrote to him the country not to hesitate in doing something for the from Malta in September, 1841. Ile stated that he sailed settlement of this question, before it should be too late. I to Valetta, with troops from Candle, rind that th e He ( Sir A. L. Hay) would allude to one other testimony that of troops had hen put into quarantine till the 231 ; the itight Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government, who that was I 7 days. He also stated that treat credit was in July, lti4o, had given it as his opinion that the session ought due to the 'patience with which they submitted to the inconve- not to be suffered to pass over without the Government pro enence ; and he added that every one knew the irksomeness and posing some legislative measure on the subject. And the .delay of the quarantine, and the conseque n t retardation of the question bad been left unsettled up to the present moment, and service. Admiral sir John Oliver left Candia at the same he hoped the House would indulge him while he pointed out to time with the Cyclops steamer. The Cyclops arrived at Malta them the manner in , which this subject was operant) , " on the before Sir John Oliver, arid the time was calculated for her Established Chu rc h o f S cot l an d . F or h i s own part° he (Sir arrival. Site was admitted to pratique before Sir John Oliver A. L. Hay) had never interfered at all in the unfortunate dd. was, -who did not arrive until some days alter the steamer, so ferences which at present divided the Church. He had de that his junior officers, who had left Candia at the same time he dared no opinion which could be construed into partisanship had done, were enjoying themselves on shore some days before for one side or the other. He had never stated any other he was permitted to land. Again, the steam-ship Stromboli opinion than this, in saying which he had no fear of contradic had left Beyrout on the 2d September, within twenty-four lion, that things could not be allowed to remain long as _hours after the Powerful had left Beyrout, but not having the they were. The first thing that occurred upon the passing of advantage of steam, she had not reached Malta until many the Veto Act was the case of Auchterarder. In that case the days after the Stromboli. The Powerful was as Civil and the Ecclesiastical Courts disagreed. A clergyman healthy,as the Stromboli, and had left within 24 hours of each was inducted against the almost unanimous voice of the other, and yet, in consequence of the difference in the time of parisioners. In that case the General Assembly interposed, their,arrival at Malta the Stromboli had pratique granted to her and exerted what they felt to be their rights. But in that 18 days before the Powerful. Much of this was attributable to cause they were condemned by the Civil Courts. Ihe next . the immense number of persons who had a p ecun i ary interest circumstanee of importance was th e we ll known case of the in the roainienarree of that quarantine system, and he agreed parish of Marnoch. There again, a clergyman was inducted with ,Captain Basil that it would be cheaper and better to pen- against the almost unanimous decision of the Assembiy, sion off those persons to the third and fourth generation, than to who were again opposed by the Civil Courts. The Commission continuothe present system; As a proof of the working of of the Assembly suspended, and ultimately deposed the clergy that system he would state that it appeared from the Maltese men in these instances; and sent into the parishes other clergy- - newspapers that the authorities in that island had thought pro- ' men who officiated, not in the parish churches, (which were in per to lengthen the quarantine of vessels arriving from Cone the possession of the deposed persons) but in other places in the stantionple : frope 18 to 25 days, and the reason given for this parishes. The difference in these persons was, that they were was that the quarantine authorities at Marseilles had refused to out of the pale of the Ecclesiastical Court, and in possession of the reduce,the time for allowing vessels pratique. At Leghorn the temporalities, and supported by the civil authorities, but they period was only 18 dayi and the Au s t r i an G overnmen t h a d were not recogn i sed b y the other Court. This was not a ques materially shortened th e length of quarantine at Trieste, tion connected merely with the Church, but it was a question while on the Danube they had removed it altogether. connected with the observance of the law. There Some of his Hon. Friends whom he saw around him could was another feature he had to mention, in connexion with bear testimony to the extreme personal annoyances to which this most unfortunate controversy, which was the case all men were subjected who had unfortunately fallen into the of a very learned and remarkable man in the Church of handy of quarantine functionaries. It was a history of priva- Scotland. He alluded to a minister in Edinburgh, Mr. tions, of delays, of expense, of obstructions of every sort, of des- Candlish. This very eminent man was on the eve of being peti.rn the most uncontrolled and irresponsible. One could established in the Chair of Biblical Criticism. He had acted hardly conceive how intelligent nations could have given their without the order of his Ecclesiastical superiors, and had gone sanction to such a system. In Malta there was a strict guar- to the parish of Huntley, and there performed Divine service, entitle against arrivals from Algiers and Northern Africa. The in opposition to the interdict of the Court. The consequence French, who were severe against Oriental countries not under was, he never received his appointment; and, in fact, so far their own Government, relaxed that severity in the case of as pu n ishm en t was con c erne d, h e was t h e on l y person w h o ships arriving from Algiers. On the ground 'of public health had been puni s hed for his oppo s iti on t o th e c i v il l aw. If h e twhcorreopondence of all countries, on arriving at the Levant, had a c t e d wrong , th e mere l y w i t hh o ldi ng t h e p l ace was not as e ha httuany violated. 'He had seen despatches of :he Govern- sufficient. If the civil power was strong enough to take it went examined like Parliamentary papers, after which they up, they ought to have carried it still further.—( Hear. ) were re-sealed and forwarded to their lace of destinatio n . In his opinion, there ought to be no un cer t a i n ty e ith er Litters underwe n t var i ous operations. Sometimes they were . one way or the other. It was not enough to tell him that her clipped in vinegar, PO that when they m-ired in this country .11ajesty's late Government did not take up this question. He they were scarcely legible ; sometimes they were filled eith was sorry the Right Hun. &o ink, the First Minister of the holes, the incidenis being mane with a sh . a- p instrument ; and Ci own had not been apt to take example of the Noble Lord they generally arrived at „ heir i i n toh : a ti tt o il i e t i s dilapidated n , ear him, but i be (Sir A. L. Hay) did hope he would see the condition. There could be to do ( u e b 't t - political ~a , ,t objects of s and wouldeotns a t i o hi m d ethin g on this subject. The next case nolitieal interests were great (awes„ e to which liee a s l Vß e s x e tc n aet which had d recently occurred, :i f a A ry ar e e s a c t r i i i ptio l , viz., h the quarantine. He felt persuaded that almost all the interests of line which was inc of America were concentrated in and represented by her ageros. ' case w hich occurred in the a . ris ' h r( 't he quarantine had often been relaxed tor political purtoscs. 'limo was not the slightest necessity p for a ny steps being this case 'The general ideas respecting the plague were connected with There was no vacalicy in the palish, an d the person who had ignorance and superstition. In some countries, as in Italy, been estalslished had been there for seven years; he acted in the the fear of the cont gion of phthisis was as strong as that of capacity of assistant. An assistant was merely a temporary person pague. But it was now known that persons were se i zed with in the parish. This Gentleman had ac t e d i n the capacity for that dis-ase without having had any communication with in• seven years, and all at once it appeared necessary that he fected persons. He mentioned some extraordina r y reports of should be made assistant to another parish. It was in conse cases in which the plague had been stated to have been nom- quence of this appointment that the disgraceful scenes which municated, and read a return of the number of deaths, from had been referred to hail taken place. It was understood by 'various diseases, in Constantinople. It appeared that the the sheriff of the county and by the civil authorities, that a riot deaths in the year in that city, from ordinary diseases, was likely to take place in conseqnence of the appointment. amounted to 45,840; deaths by the plague, 1,160: of these a The sheriff, the head of the police, and twelve of the rural large proportion of f a t a l case s wer e those who were found I police, and a large body of constables were assembled on the dead in their houses w ith ou t having received any medical treat- spot. There was a large assemblage of persons not only from meat at all, the ave r ag e mor t a lity b e i ng ateout two-thirds of the particular parish, but from the surrounding parishes, prin. - the numberattacked. 'phis return proved that the real mortality ciPallY accumulated by the feeling of curiosity. The people got sof the city during the plague season was less than at the other into the church, and filled every avenue, and prevented the "Pries& of the yea r . In t h e mont h s o f September' and Octo- clergyman who was to perform the service from ler there were as many deaths as during the plague months. doing s o . T he pulpit was occupied by the people. nhere'wercsonle facts connected with the subject which gave The consequence was the clergyman, and the Pres ., . et i t , S., .;,.. i i I,),,c)itntcoolmitmmtuteceb couldmore a a m i Ll d e s ; o i n f r t c h e e s r o e f e in ve f r or l m va a s fi a on sub tl j i e a c ii t t taa . : on each side was so thoroughly exhausted, he ventvred to_ sty it was that of the Church of Scotland ; and, theref,re, e ikt! lion. Gentleman wanted information with respect to th ., (1 . 1 .r5 07 rent matters relating to that question, after having readtl a `l, the judgment of all the Judges of the Court of Sessions and the judgment of the Hous of Lords, and then the pain e p i r which were written on the subject, it might be dep er upon that the most ample information would bean ob tained. When the late ssovernment was in office _ press proposition was made to Lord Melbouree, r . appoint a Committee to inquire into the question. Loyd:ei. bourne did not acquiesce in that proposition, stet ng as his r , 7 for not doing so, that he thought the question was not../O__ tit for legislation. Lord Melbourne then took the c'itO7, which he (Si r R . P ee l) now proposed to take. He believe d the appointment of a Committee would only_ tend to pot,tEZ the time when any goo d could b e effected. He firmly heir ect that if an attempt was now made to legislate upon then al it would only inflame the feelings of the peoples ttiti e already excited, and at th e same t i me t h ey would not ad , vance the interests o f th e Ch urch of S cot l an d one air Under these circumstances, he thought the Hon. • 3 lem, i acted perfectly right in n o t bringing forward a Bill ; b,t_ bk. it t Hill coubl be brought forward, founded on just princiP i h i thought it ought to be b roug h t f orward—he t h oug ht it.woiron b, much beter than appointing a Select Committee. °L' e ! ,oo „,,i belief was, that, instead of effecting any good, a Selec t e sat! milieu would only te n d to widen the differen ce coo present exist ing. —( Heat , hear. If he b aci , ed oe down to the House, and said h e had nothing to r g t - g l e t the measure, and that he should move therefore for a _,.,„ Committee, he should have b een to ld at once t h a t such a Z` o l would be wholly unworthy of th e Mi n i ster o f t h e Crown. ;i- s t coul.l he indeed h ave pursue d suc h a course; and wolnot step had been a dopt e d b y anot h er Hon. Illembed, he t , ; ..l: ' ' give his support to it. r ' 4 i i * '!.' Mr. A. CAMPBELL commenced, in reply, by I gated'? extract from a letter from Dr. Thomas Chalmers,ldg t 45 1 1 , 11 that his motion was looked to with the greatest inteti s 4 t. . -11 t ,; parties in the Church, and wishing him God speed ili t aritt would beg to state that the Right Honourable s orer,_ who answered him did not at all condescend t° 1 1•31 r - the arguments which h e h a d made use of. P e u , sot Campbell) contended t h at t h e c i v i l court onfl""hokic to be allowed to decid e th e ,i m i ts of i ts own powers v ii 4 i 1 b.,: had to adjudicate i n th e case o f i ts own adversary. -T,..jbas: Right Hon. Baronet did not rep l y to. The Ilig,ngvlif;; Baronet then asked hi m w h y h e di d not bring in a Bill ' - ' 7 i. would bring in a Pill, and one that would answer erktAta,i pose, but he knew that it would be immediately cashiered, party of men who blindly followed their Conserw o - 0 01 , leader.—(Oppositi on c h eers. ) G entlemen opposite need?'.,' cheer because h e k new t h ey would de exactly the same ' o f , i —(Renewed cheering.) It was for that reason that herr3 2l o to have a quiet d:,.criminating i nqu i ry i nto t h e su bj ect in a _ A „ si l ,_!, mitre-room ;h e as k e d thi s i n j ust i ce t o the people of Saul" - :.. and themselves. He was now quite ready to take the sense the House on the subject. Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, and the e • 's -- divided. The num b ers were— ,i g, , For the m o ti on • 69 -""^. Against it . Major it against the m o ti on. ........--7 . il ' :.! THE TRUCK SYSTEM. 4 Mr. FERRAND, on th e ga ll ery b eing cleared, was, 0 yet '; speaking i n suppor t o f t h e mot i on, of which he ba d .- .4 notice, for a copy of all the convictions in the countle t •- •?, York and Lancaster by Magistrates in Petty Sessions 8 71 1 1;,,: i bled, of permits who have been guilty of illegally pltYL, f 4 r eet . • wages of th e i r wor k peop l e i n goods instead of the cs - 1 8,51i ' coin of the realm, since the Ist day of January/ ' sl. ' contrary to the provisions of the Act 1 and 2 Will. 4• g ; t he He made thi s d eman d i n j ust i ce to the working men e .. . it ' .0( 4 kingdom. At the time an Honourable Member oPr - je.'.. stated that seventy-two persons in Manchester hil! 1 . Ilt• - dared that they did not carry on the truck systeot,,!' was most shamefully deceived by those P t _T i iel ... , • Instead of bei ng t h e pr i nc i pa l manufactures of. Lang many of th em were not manufacturers at all. tro ak' 7 ` very first man on the list carried on the o re sjstem, by paying his labourers in milk, and , tio s' maufasturers in that pla ce h e f oun d were foreigners, and it right tha t th e y s h ou ld come h ere and subscribe their 01e, for the purpo se o f se tti ng c l ass aga i nst class,and support in t o rii of men who were attempting to overawe the Govern se o f , Those men were d epr i v i ng the British merchant ti 01..: a fair field of ente r p r i se , an d t h ey h ad a duty to peters'-se' 0, only to the B r iti s h G overnment, b ut to the country they fo. ~ from. W ere. B r i t i s h merc h ants to act in the same way in' 'or. countries, they would b e i mme di ate l y made amenable to the a l . He protested aga i ns t t h e oppress i on going on in the north o. England a ga i ns t th e wor k men, in the name of justice tot common decency, and he proposed his motfon from a rd' il ejal the people of thi s country should be made aware ...,.- is -' if the master did attempt to frighten and intimidate the ol'is men from giving evidence before the House it ' l ,_! s e ti the power of th e H ouse to inflict condi gu punisolit o - o sl ; and while he li ve d, as f ar as hi s position in the ° tail, enabled him, he would take care that the punishment Wa t g k ie,' flitted. The H on . M em b er t h en read a circular, dated l'ata;' chester, the sth o f M arc h. an d s i gned J. Hickens, secrets!: 'Cal!' an Anti Corn.law Society, requesting the foremen blishments to obtain the signatures of workmen to a cony: tion of Mr. Lennard's charge. He asked, where , declaratio n was ? I t had not appeared in that rd er because th e wor ki ng people had at last shown that Ja e° ';,, were not to b a i nt i m id ated. H e also read the letter'"l ' inclosed th e c i rcu l ar to him, signed by a poor working Ittot/, praising M r . Ferranti for his conduct i n ex p is i ng the eolitiek}". of the masters, and wondering that any men could be-' t or who would nut credit it. He was determned to terra:Ltd, ,t whole of su c h mons • rous tyranny, by whosoever / and whatever party ; and he should be prepared after - ,,.d when he should move f or a C omm i ttee, with !Itch eri'lli . ' as would astonish the Heise, and make some Hon. 1 11 e ° t lii • in the House tremble. The Government would find. fr°°'o9, evidence, th a t t h e country was in an alarming state frog • fraudulent practices of the manufacturers, who were p ' ' ' ' k and oppressing their workmen to a worse extent than . ) bondage. He read two letters from Magistrates in the ',,, j bourhood of the Hon. Member for Stockport, stating tbit had convicted manufacturers for illegally paying their worili f in goods , i n p ena l t i es to t h e amount of 251. And he eoneltildSk accusing the Hon. Member for Stockport himself, notwitlislro . , ing his de c l ara ti on , that' he had adopted th e truck ayate;iskP keeping a num be r o f cows , an d pay i ng part of his men's in milk. Col. SI IITHORPE seconded the motion, Mr. SCHOLEFIELD said that he had ired" r denying th a t any suc h meet i ng had taken place in f irn .? -- ite: 7 -, -',,T ham as the H on , M em b er ( Mr. Ferrand) had allegeu'' . ''. .I , '' The motion w as th en agree d to. : l la g al On the motion o f L ord ELIOT , leave was given to htl i g . 9 ,1 " a Bill to am e nd th e D u bli n P o li ce Acts. Dr. hOWRING postponed to Thursday next the lo t tinai i°ll°l 7k 4 which he had gieen notice for a Report made to .the ''( e , j,4‘fle Office by a Committee appointed by the Conference, t d g t -: ,01 herd at the Crown and Anchor, on the subject of In gll I; V et ,i ti . tuning distress. • lorle" On the motion of the Earl of LINCOLN, leave wi4 gl ii ifi to bring in a Bill to extend and enlarge the provisions OW i p Act 4 and 5 Vic. c. 27, intituled " an Act to enable her ~, 4 jesty's Commissioners of Woods to complete the contralT, , , l et r the sale of York House, and to purchase certain lands. n i i,;;# fi' l , 4 . The other Orders of the Day were disposed of, end the a•"".-`• p adjourned at a Quarter-past One. MR THE SUN, LONDON, WEDNESDAY MORNING, MARCH 16, 1842 bytery retired to another place, and there performed the ser vice. Most of thepeople who were there in the forenoon ret urned to their respective houses, but in the .'vetoing another body of people came, and great tumult ensued. The church was de stroyed by the people. Now, under these circumstances, one of two things occurred ; either the Sheriffs were absent, or being present, deserted the.r authority. This occurrence took place on the 11th df November, and from that time until the 30th of the month, not a single step was taken with respect to this transaction. The consequence was, that in that part of the country the people conceived they had gained a victory, and exulted in the feeling that they had prevented the settle ment of the question, and had overawed the police. On the 30th of the month a meeting was convened and took place, and resolutions were passed, requesting the Secretery of the Home Department to take some steps on the subject. On the 21st December an examination took place, and many witnesses were examined, and ultimately four persons were committed to gaol for this outrage. and one of those persons was the one who had occupied the pulpit in the church. Those persons, he believed, were now out on bail, and they would he brought to trial. He wished to put it to the Government whether such things ought to be tolerated. History thowed that the people of Scot land were not easily roused to outrage ; but history also told them that in anything connected with their religious rites, they could be excited to the utmost extent, and being once excited, were not easily put down. He (Sir A. L. Hay) had lived for the last two years in the heart of the county where these disturbances took place. He was not advocating either one party or the other. He believed they had both acted in consistently, and if so, then there was the greater necessity for some steps to be taken for an equitable adjustment of the case. The next was one that had recently occurred, and he would shortly state it, to point out the working of the system under the present l aw . Th e gent l eman h e had referred to had re cently departed this life. he person who had been ap pointed in his stead, he (S,r A. Leith Hay) had known for many years, and than whom there was not a more learned man to be found. He was presented to the parish by the Duke of Richmond, who was the patron. It was understood among the congregation that the appointment was likely to cause a tumult, anti in consequence of that her Majesty's Government ordered troops to pass from Aber deen, thirty or forty miles, for the purpose of being in the neighbourhood in case any violence was attempted. Now this was a most extraordinary state of things. The Noble Patron on whose property this parish was, and who was the representative of the most powerful family in the north, he himself, on a former occasion, stated it as his opinion that no House of Parliament could, consistently with its duty, refuse to take this subject into its consideration. 'That was the opinion of the Duke of Richmond. If it was necessary to have a mi litary force in the neighbourhood to effect the settlement of a parochial minister, they might depend upon it the country was not in a proper state. There were seven ministers repudiated by the General Assembly. These men were not held by the ecclesi astical law to have any connexion with the church. He himself was the patron to two of the clergymen, and he wished to see a fair settlement. There were no less than seventy ministers who were considered to be under the ban of the General Assembly. The notice he had given was for correspondence connected with the settlement of the questiou between these ministers. He did not mean to say that the Government had acted contrary to principle, but he would say the Right Hon. Baronet, the Se cretary of State for the Home Department, had not conducted the matter m a straightforward manner. In consequence of the vacancy he had alluded to, a memorial was sent to him (Sir A. L. Hay,) for' the purpose of being presented to the Secre tary for the Home Department, and he did so, and the answer he received was, that they must make in quiries as to whether such a vacancy had taken place. The filling up of the vacancy was put off until the present Go vernment came into office, and when they did come into office, he (Sir A. L. Hay) wrote to the Right Hon. Baronet, at the head of her Majesty's Government; but in some time after the Right Hon. Baronet replied, stating that he was not prepared to say what her Majesty's Government would do. After that it was useless to write again to the Right Hon. Baronet, but he (Sir A. L. Hay) thought that the wishes and wants of the people should be attended to. He did not stand there to vin dicate the principle of intruding clergy upon the people con trary to their wishes. The people of Scotland undoubtedly had a right to select their clergy, and they had a right to see who were the clergymen that the Government appointed to take charge of their spiritual concerns. Ile would sustain the laws as long as they exi s t e d, b ut to say t h at t h e A ct of Queen Anne should be repealed and leave nothing in its stead, was a proposition which he would not support; at the same time it was his determination on all occasions to support the people in their rights to see who their clergymen should be. He thought he should be degenerating from his duty if he did not do what he had then done ; and in conclusion be should entreat the Right Hon. Baronet to settle the question boldly, and according to the dictates of reason, of justice, and of common sense. An Hote. MEMBER on the Ministerial benches asked the Hon. and Gallant Officer to explain what he considered the " dictates of reason, of justice, and of common sense."--- ( Much laughter.) Sir JAMES GRAHAM never had approached any subject with greater delicacy or hesitation that that which had been drought forward by the lion. and Gallant Officer, because he felt that a great and heavy responsibility rested upon him (Sir James Graham); he felt that responsibility more deeply lest any thing which should fall from him on that occasion should aggravate or increase the evils which already existed. When notice had been given of the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Officer, very great doubts were entertained about it ; however, he (Sir J. Graham) remembered when Sir George Sinclair brought forward a motion upon the subject, in 1824, the Hon. and Gallant Officer (Sir A. L. Hay) was one of his most strenuous opponents. The last occasion the Hon. and Gallant Officer addressed the House was on the 9th of June, 1834; then the Hon. and Gallant Officer stated that he had several petitious to present from Scotland, and that the prayer of those petitions was that no alteration should be made in the Church Law of Scotland. Upon that occasion the Hon. and Gallant (Meer stated that the most rational and the most re spectable people in Scotland were not only attached to the Established Church there, but also to the way in which that establishment was conducted. The Honourable and Gallant Officer was then satisfied with the state of the law, and had passed a glowing eulogium upon the Chu rc h o f S cot l an d . He (Sir J. Grah am ), though not a member of the Church of Scotland, should say that from his earliest age he had had an opportunity of knowing and seeing the influence which that Church exercised upon every ;lass of society, and he was bound to say that he could never speak of that Church without feel ing the most deep and marked respect for it.--(Hear,. hear. ) He had always seen the clergy of that Church eontented with very moderate endowments—(Hear)—and though their en dewments were moderate, they were ever active and efficient in the discharge of their duties.—( Hear.) The clergy of that Church were a most exemplary body of men.—(Hear.) and no one could doubt that they had exercised a most salutary influence upon the character, the morals, and the habits of the people of Scotland, which made them remarkable as the most enlightened and moral people of the whole world.—(Hear.) He (Sir J. Graham), therefore, felt bound to entertain the deepest feeling of respect for the clergy of the Church of Scot land ; at the same time, he regretted to see that very unhappy differences had occurred in it.—(Cries of " Hear, hear,") lie perfectly agreed with the Honourable and Gallant Officer that if it were possible. those differences should be put an end to as soon as possible, and he should say he never listened to a speech with more attention than he had listened ta that of the Hon. and Gallant Officer; but he should par don him (Sir J. Graham) if he added that he had never heard a speech from which he had derived less satisfaction than he had derived from it.—(Hear and laughter.) The lion. and Gallant Officer said it was impossible that things could be left as they were ; that something should be done ; but what that " something" should be, the Hon. and G a ll an t Offi cer did not give th e l east i n kli ng or idea. The Gallant Officer talked of the late Government and the debates upon the subject in 1840, with the speeches of Lord Aberdeen, the Duke of Wellington, and the Right Honour able Baronet at the head 'of her Majesty's Government. However, the Hon. and Gallant Officer had dropped some. thing, in which he (Sir J. Graham) agreed. He said that the question might have been settled three years ago, much better than it could be settled now.—( Cheers from the Mini sterial benches.) That which was possible and wise three years ago, might be utterly impossible and impracticable now. The Hon. and Gallant Officer referred to what Lord Aberdeen said, but he did not allude to what Lord Aberdeen did ; what ever Lord Aberdeen said, he recommended the late Govern ment to settle the question as soon as possible, and, not con tent with that advice, he introduced a measure, in the hope a settling it—a measure which, though it was calcu lated to satisfy moderate men upon all sides, did not meet with or receive very encouraging support. The Duke of Wellington said, in 1840, that if moderate counsels were attended to, the question- would have been settled, but it was because there was no disposition to attand to moderate coun sels that the question could not be settled. So it was that the It,ght Hon. Baronet at the head of her Majesty's Government :aid, in 1840, that an attempt should be made to settle the question, and, acting upon that opinion, he supported the motion of Lord Aberdeen. It was necessary to remind the House, that in 1841 the Right Hon. Baronet (Sir H. Peel) had given the same advice which he had given in 1840. The lion. and Gallant Officer said, that the question was whether the law should be obeyed or not. Upon that subject there could be no doubt. He (Sir J. Graham) entirely agreed with the Gallant Officer, that the law should be obeyed; it was the determination of her Majesty's Government that it should be obeyed; and it was their resolution to insist with firmness, hut without violence, that the laws should be obeyed.. The Hon. and Gallant Officer also said that the existing laws could not be co-existent with the law of Anne ; in that he (Sir .f. Graham) also entirely agreed. He also agreed that the Veto Act could not prevail over the law of the land, but the lion. and Gallant Gentleman said it was necessary to legislate promptly and finally on the subject, and be asked whether her Majesty's Government intended to do so now? If tht‘re were any doubts on certain points in the law of the land there were at present actions of the greatest importance de pending in the Scotch Courts, and a .iecision upon those actions would go far to settle the question in dispute. If there was any time when it was more inopportune than another to legislate upon the subject, it was the present moment. The decision of those actions would go far to ascertain the state of the law; and certainly it was, for many reasons, inopportune far the Legislature now to interpose. The Hon. and Gallant Offi cer stated that violence should not be allowed to triumph over the laws of the land. In all that he (Sir J. Graham) agreed. Then the Hon. and Gallant Officer referred to the case of the parish of Elgin, and it was surprising that he objected to the course pursued by him (Sir J. Graham), though it was not the first time the Hon. and Gallant Officer had expressed his unqualified approbation, and passed a very high eulogium upon the manner in which the Right Hon. Baronet, at the head of her Majesty's Government, had administered the Church patronage in Scotland. No doubt there was a very de- cided division of opinion as to Elgin ; but he (Sir J.Graham) acted upon the principle laid down by the Hon. and Gallant Officer himself. He followed precisely the principle contended for by the Hon. and Gallant Offi cer, and in exer cising the right of the Crown to nominate a clergyman he acted upon the best information he could obtain, that that individual was not only a most eligible person, but that h e was as highly and generally approve d o f by his congregation. Ile was certain that ever y e ff ort had beets made by her Majesty' s ' Government (luring the recess, as in 1840 by Lord Aberdeen, to see it any declaratory law could be passed which might re ceive the reasonable and'general support of the people of Scot land ; but finding that no measure could be introduced with arty likelihood of success, he had come to the conclusion that it was necessary not to attempt legislation, but to abide by the htw of the land as it at present stood. After every attention C, 0 the subject by the Government, and after every deliberation, they could not devise any other course than that. In conclu sion, he was sati,fied that the law of Scotland, as it at present ,tool, shou d be followed, and he would not concede to the de dication of a Committee cf that House. He imagined that it v , as only to express his sentiments that the Hon. and Gallant Gfficer had made this motion. He (Sir J. Graham) could not assent to it. Mr. FOX MA ULE said he took a very different view of th e law, a s at present established, from that entertained by the Right Ho n . R aronet who had just sat down. The feeling that had been opened up to-night was one of such vast extent, that in addressing himself to the question—perhaps it would be the only opp or t un i ty he might have of addressing himself to it—the onlyopportunity, because he had learnt, from what had fallen from the Right Hon. Barotet, that it was not the intention of Government to attempt in any way to legislate on this sub ject; and as he (Mr. Fox Maule) anticipated no succsss at an attempt at legislation without the support of the Government, the party, if party they called it, but which he de no minated the Church of Scotland it se l f, maintained that by the established law of Scotland, from the year 1567 to the present year, the Presbytery hada distinct independent spiritual jurisdiction se- cured to them by Act of Parlianient, with which, according to the Act of Union, neither Court of Law, nor Parliament itself, could interfere. He completely concurred in that opinion, and if the House would permit, he world trace the various statutes through which this power was acceded to the Church. In the year 1567, the firot-year elite Ger.eral Assembly of the ancient Presbyterian Church of Scotland, which was held to take steps for the framing of articles on the subject of jurisdiction, and to submit them to the Parliament, one of those articles was this —" That, to this our Kirk be granted, arid by this Parliament secured, such privileged jurisdiction and authority as appertains to the true Kirk, and that no authority be acknowledged other than that allowed by this Kirk." This evidently appeared to have beeen the foundation of the Act of the year 1567, and that Act proceeded to state, that by the King's permission, and with the advice of the Prince Regent and the three Es tates of Parliament, no place of worship was legal other than that by the favour of God established in the realm, and that no juris diction other than that of the Church could be held in the Church. the Act then set forts other articles relating to spiritual jurisdiction. Such was the Act which first settled the esbyterian Church by the statute law of the land. In 1579 that Act was "atified. In 1581, the Act of 1567 was also ra tified and approved. Then came the Act of 1592, which in the 116th chapter also ratified that Act. Here, then, we had the undoubted establishment of this independent and spiritual jurisdiction. But then had our ancestors nn idea that it was possible that this spiritual jurisdiction might interfere with the civil jurisdiction? He thought they had, for, in the very nee. / chapter of the same Are, the statute provided that, where the Civil Courts refused to accept the presentee of - a patron, the stipend should be given to the patron, and that it should be lawful for the patron to retain the whole funds of the benefice in his own hands.—( Hear, hear. ) By this it clearly gave the power to the Church on the one hand of appointing and ordaining- its own Ministers, and on the other hand it gave a distinct satisfaction to the patron for the injury done to him if his presentee should be rejected He thought this Act established clearly the independent jurisdic tion of the Church. But they might be told that no case ever occurred in Scotland where the civil benefice and the cure of souls were separate. He thought he had an opinion or two on that subject which bore upon the question. The first was in the year 1798, where the patron attempted to stop The or dination of another man—this the Court would not allow. The next case was in the year 1749, when an application to a similar effect was made, and the Court would not meddle with it ; accordingly the huge ' on that instanc e , s t a t e d t h a t these was no law in Scotland to compel the Presbyterian to maintain the presentee. Lord Kaimes said that the man appointed by the faction was de facto the minister of the pa rish. Nothing could be more clearly laid down up to the year 1749 than that the Court of Session distinctly recognised, by their independent spiritual jurisdiction, that Church Courts might bring a person into a parish, and the Civil Courts, on the other hand, could not alter the appointment in any way, but the civil benefice would be separate from the cure of souls, and the parish would be left in the somewhat strange position of one man drawing the stipend and another serving the cure. Such was the law of Scotland, and they had to deal with the law as established. He would now follow out the Acts from 1592 ; the Act of James rescinded the Acts of 1549, but they were again resumed by Charles the Second in 1562. He would pass over that, and come to the time when the Presbyterian religion was established at the Revolution. In 16e9 Episcopacy was abolished, and in 1690 all the acts relative to the Presbyterian religion, establish ing it on the footing which, as had been stated, recognised all its privileges, were again passed, and became, as now, the established law of the land ; and no act had been passed inter fering with that till the act, commonly called the Act of Queen Anne, and he must say there never was an act of Parliament so foully imposed on the people as this Act. He must say that the more he looked at that Act, the more he considered the character of those who passed it, and the more he considered the means by which it was passel, he could not help having a conviction that this assault on the Church of Scotland was in point of fact a conspiracy on the part of Queen Anne and those who passed it, to overturn the Protestant religion of this country, How had this Act been passed ? It was brought into the Commons and passmed through it so rapidly that there was not time between the bringing of it in and the passing of it, to communicate with Scotland, and not till after the Bill was in the Peers had the General Assembly of the Church of Scot land the power of being heard by petition.--( Hear, hear.) It was read a second time in the Peers, and one or two Ministers were heard on the question.' But did the Lords take time to reconcile the statements of those gentlemen. No. They cpmmittedit, reported it, and read it a third time that evening. It appeared to him that this act of treachery to the people of Scotland was in direct contradiction to the treaty of the Union, and he most certainly say, that any person bringing forward the repeal of the statute, would have the strongest possible grounds for bringing forward such a motion. He thought that, in arguing this question, he was bound to deal openly and honestly with the House. He did not say that he, for one, was vet prepared for the total abolition of the Act. He thought that a middle course should be pursued, and he should be anxious to see the Act passed by the General Assembly in 1834, become the law of the land. With respect to the Auchterarder case, he was ready to argue it, and he was sorry the Attorney-General was not in his place, that he might hear slim out, as he had been borne out by Lord Cottenham that that question as it had been decided by the Civil Courts was not a legal decision. It decided that the Church could take Mr. Young, but no more, arid according to the Act of 1592, cap. 117, which continued- to be in force at this moment, the effect would be that Mr. Young would be entitled by the civil law to draw the stipend, but the party appointed by the Presbytery would be the person to ad minister to the cure of souls. It was a question which they never could consent to refer to any civil tribunal, and it was the reference of the question to civil tribunals that had forced the General Assembly, in defence of their sacred rights and inviolable privileges, to adopt that course which they had pursued, stimulated merely by a sense of duty, and not by any factious motives ; and, he hoped that whatever might be said out of doors, Hon. Members would approach this question with caution, and look ,at it in its f a i r b ear i ngs, to say when the li ne o f duty led one party or when th e li ne of supposed duty l e d anot h er par ty. With regard to the progress of this question he deeply regretted the determination ex pressed by her Majesty's Government, not to legislate on that subject. He did not think that was calculated to satisfy the people, who had looked for an extensive measure at their hands. The Duke of Wellington had said that the mo derate party were defeated; a similar expression .had also fallen, he thought; frofa the ,Bight Honourable Baronet; but he hoped that Honourable Members would not be led away by any such expressions, but that they would look to the moderate men in the Church of Scotland. They were the men who held the power in the Church, and they knew what was the proper jurisdiction of the Ecclesiastical Courts of 'ecotland. That Hon. Gentleman said that during the recess every attempt had been made by Government to bring thft matter to a satisfactory conclusion ; and while the Govern ment had held intercourse with various parties on the sub ject, he believed that from the commencement of the inter course both parties were labouring under a mistaken idea. When those terms were explained to the Right Hon. Baronet the negotiations came to an end, it being evident that the parties could nut agree. Here he (Mr. hex Mauls) desired it to be understood, that in contending for the rights of the Non- Intrusion party, he was most anxious that a just regard should be paid to the influence and interests of the patrons. None would more determinedly than he oppose an undue assump tion of authority. The vacancy at Glasgow, respecting which the excitement was so great that the Government had had to order troops into that neighbourhood, showed how the state of the Church now occupied the public mind in Scotland. If the Government wented a proof of what such things might lead to, he would refer them to toe year 1734, when the Act of Anne first came into operation, and when, in consequence, an enor mousif the Governme n t p ersevere d much greater schism would be th e re ,n its present schism place a ; now, in suit, and, at last, the Dissenters from the Church of Scotland would be as the Dissenters from the Established Church in Ire land, more numerous than its members. He would admit that the Government might have settled this question if the parties on both sides could have agreed on the nomination prim: isle— ( Hear, hear)—but still, he must observe, that the late Govern ment acted on the principle of administering the Crown patron age with strict attention to the wishes of the parishioners—a principle which the present Government did not imitate. On this principle the late Government acted in bestowing the patronage OEIOO parishes, except one or two, the difficulties of which could be easily explained.—(Hear, hear.) The Right Hon. Baronet would have the House think he had acted in like mariner since he came to the Horne Department, at least, he said he acted on the plan followed by the Right Hon. Baronet at the head of the Government while he was in the Home office. Now, the case of Elgin furnished a complete contrast. When a vacancy occurred ni 1824, when the Right Hon. Baronet, the Member for Tamworth, was Home Secretary, the Right Hon. Gentleman acted in accordance with the wishes of the people, as might be' seen by referring :0 Mr. Peel's correspondence with Colonel Grant on that occasion. Now the Right Hon. Baronet, the present Home Secretary, had sent to hum the duplicate of a petition which had been sent to Isis predecessor, Lord Normanby, respecting the presenta tion to Elgin. That petition was signed, in the first place, by three-fourths of the communicants, heads of families; se condly, by all the elders except one ; thirdly, by the Magis trates and Town Council; fourthly, by the majority of borough proprietors : fifthly, by six out of eight of the heritors repre smiting 4,6821. nut of a rental of 6,3391. ; yet the Right Honourable Baronet said he followed in the foot steps of his predecessor.—(Hear, hear.) Now ha col league could not have made an appointment giving more dissatisfaction to the people than that of Mr. Willie. If that gentleman were received harmoniously, as the Right Hon. Baronet said, it was because the Dissenters did not wish, by giving in their protests, to excite a riot. All he (Mr. Fox Made) contended for was, that the feelings of the people of Scotland ought to be respected. Now, to show how those-feelings had been disregarded, he would take the ease of the late Mr. Tyrrell, the4Secretary of the Presbjtery of Cupar. To the deep regret of all who knew him, that gentle man was suddenly withdrawn from the world on the Ist of February; on the Bth, contrary to all usage, the Covers.- ment presented his successor. This act, so shocking to the feelings of the clergy and the laity, had excited in the public mind the strongest impression against the Right Hon. Baronets. indeed it was to be feared that that im pression was indelible. The Right Hon. Baronet's rule seemed to be to distribute the patronage of the Crown in the Church of Scotland as he alone thought proper, and on his responsibility as a Minister--(" No, no," from Sir James Graham.) Well, then, he (Mr. Fox Maule) hoped the Right Hon. Baronet would soon prove the contrary to the one of all hi s p resen t at i ons , exce pt that Lochlie, had been made ex ceptpeople of Scotland i n a p rac ti ca l m anner ; for, hitherto, not t.o which he wou ld present l y a d ver t, There were onlycne or two points in the speech of Hon. and Learned F r i en d t o w hi c h h e w i s hed to allude. His Learned on thep r i nc ipl e o f stu di ous i n diff e rence andpubli h e i r g spinion. Friend h a d re f erre d to t h e cases o f B ar nard and the parish of Strathbogie. He did not intend to go over all the dispute, but if th e whole case were to be examined, he believed it would be fo un d t h at ne i t h er t h e G enera l Assem bly nor theof Commis sion h a d, i n any one i nstance, b ro k en an y decree Q Civil Court, e xcept such as i t was i mposs ibl e they could observe. In every civil r i g h t t h ey h a d b owe d i m plicitly to the decision of the Civil Court, but they cannot, they would net, and he would add, they dared not bow to the decision of a Civil Court, ;if it presumed to internee in Ecclesiastical matters. Would any one say that if the Court Of Session claimed a ri :lit of jurisdiction over the Court of Exchequer, that it would be for a mome nt li stene d to ? H a d not a ll t h e Supreme Courts of Justice th e i r own b ounds ? '1 h e Court o f Session had no more right to i n t ru d e i tself w i t hi n the pa l e o f the jurisdiction of th e Ecclesiastical Court, than the Ecclesiastical nia matters o his civil right t Court lav~ iin terfere with th e a d m i n i strat i on o f th e Civil tt at the Ecclesiastical , allastical, body had hefinterfered twouldhe best s-riztllas ita lawyers o f opinion on t h e aut h ority Scotland. The quest ion had never been tried. But he was ready to peril any credit he possessod on this asser tion, that when it did come to the ultimate Court of Appeal, it itself f l d vv be provedth whichthat h oCo o t rt e , Church flas,, a a can interfere.d e referredithin to the condition which the terms of the Union imposed on the Monarch of upholding the integrity of the constitution of the Church of Scotland, and proceeded to state that A it though lajesty would not be p ossi bl e to Ab cede to t h e mo tion, yet h e was glad it had be en b rought forward, as it had g i ven an opportunity to it many al s Scotch h Membershim manopportunity, toexpress o theiropinion impressing on h on the subj ect an d Government the extent to which this question was going on. The difficulties of the question might require to be en countered by a legislative measure, but in any step that might be taken he would entreat the Government to en.. deavour to soothe the feelings of the people of Scotland, and show them at least, if they could not give them all they wanted, they would be supported in the belief that in the appointment of parish ministers no one would be intruded on them without their own consent. Mr. A. COCHRANE, after referring to the importance of the subject, and stating his persuasion that the Church of Scotland could not be shaken without the Church of England being injured, said he should not refer to the discipline of the early church as connected with the first foundation of the Church of Scotland ; he considered it immaterial to his argu ment whether the Church founded in lona, had any affinity in its discipline to the Church of Scot land ; nor should he allude on the one hand to the cruelties practised upon the early Church Reformers, or the treasons alleged against the Knoxes and Melvilles of the Reformation. It was a question of fact and of law, and as such he should treat it. The Right Hon. Gentleman on rising; said he should refer to some acts on this question, but he (Mr. C.) had felt some degree of astonishment, and more curiosity to see how the Right Hon. Gentleman's opinion could be borne out by those Acts. He had made some extracts from the same Acts, and his opinion was very different. The Act of 1567, which as it never received the sanction of the Queen, but was only signed by the Regent Murray, he hardly knew whether it could be carried out as a legitimate Act.—( A laugh ) That Act provided that the examination of the minister was in the power of the Church, reserving the presentation to the ancient patron. Other Acts gave an appeal to the Presbytery, and by the Act of 1590, the presentation was vested in the heritors of the kirk, but no absolute veto was given to the people. lie briefly referred to the Act of 1712, and argued that the Church of Scotland did not proceed on the authority of Acts of Parliament, but, upon their own books of discipline, which had never received the sanction of the State, and if they con-idered those books alone, the Church of Scotland had probably some grounds for proceeding a s th ey did. B y t h e Bill proposed by Lord Aberdeen full powers was given to the people to make objections to be referred to the Presbytery, with consequent appeal to the Ecelesi!stieal Court. That Bill, however was refused, and he trusted the Govern ment was determined to see the present law carried out. The Church of Scotland had in 1690 refused an establishment, but having once admitted it an establishment they had no right now to act in opposition to it. He was gratified to find that the Right Hon. Gentleman and the Government were determined to adopt such measures as should prevent the law being set at defiance. Mr. A. CAMPBELL said that he little thought, the first time he should be called on to address the House, it would be on an occasion when he must utter his most decided determine. tion to oppose the Government, which he had done so much, in his humble way, to place in the position which they now occu pied.—( Opposition cheers.) He trusted the House would bear with a few remarks from him, which he felt himself called on to make, in consequence of the speech of the Right Honourable Baronet at the head of the Home Department. The Right Honourable Baronet had been compelled to avow his determination to put down the Church of Scotland. The Right Hon. Gentleman had declared, in most distinct and emphatic terms, that he would enforce the law against the majority of the Church of Scotland. Now he (Mr. A. Campbell) would tell the Right Hon. Baronet that he could not put down the Church of Scot land—that he would be defeated, and that he could not fulfil the threat which he had that day thrown out in that House. The united fo-ce of Scotland would be against him, and whenever the united voice of a nation was raised against an act of op pression, it would and must prevail. The other parts of the empire would join, too, with the oppressed in asserting their rights. At that late hour of the night he would not trespass at any length upon the attention of the House. With respect to the Acts of Parliament cited by the Right Hon. Gentleman (Mr. F. Mettle) respecting the Church of Scotland, he (Mr. Campbell) thought that the Right Hon. Gentleman would have done well, if in so citing these Acts he had also stated that there were many clauses in the Act of security passed at the Union, which showed how well they knewiwhat would happen when they gave up their own Presbyterian Parliament, and committed it into the hands of Episcopalian members. It was then distinctly stated that the Government of the Church of Scotland should continue in the condition in which it then was. He regretted very much to hear what had fallen from the Hon. Member . who had just sat down (Mr. A. Cochrane). When that Honourable Gentleman's father had come to canvass Greenock, he had very clear notions on this mat ter. The Hon. Gentleman talked of the treasons of Knox and Melville—names which would be illustrious in the page of history, when the lion. Gentleman's would have gone to per dition—( A laugh, arid cries of " Order")—and in speaking of the veto the Hon. Gentleman had had the audacity—(Cries of "Order, order")—w e ll th en t h e i gnorance— (L aug h ter, and renewed cries of " Order")—to add that it was a veto without appeal. The Members who gave a veto were compelled to de clare that they gave it from no factious motive. Now if that were an absolute veto he knevy not what was meant by the word; he trusted that when Scotch members felt themselves called upon by an imperative sense of duty, to state their opinions on this subject, they would be listened to with patience and at tention. The subject was one of vital importance, not only to the people of Scotland, but actually to the cause of spiritual religion.—( Hear, hear, hear.) As a non-intrusienist, he he had suffered much in the estimation of a great many of his friends for his silence. He had held his peace be cause he thought the Government, which had in many in stances acted wisely, would have pursued a very different course from that %filch it had pursued with respect to the Church of Scotland. Mr. COCHRANE said, as the Hon. Gentleman had charged him with ignorance, he begged to say one or two words in expla nation. According to a decision of the Church there was undoubtedly an appeal to the Presbytery. In 1834 Dr. Chal mers and other ministers changed their views, and said—" No, we will not have an appeal to the Presbytery, but every one who forms part of the majority, shall state that he is actuated by no fact ous views." As the law now stood, there was an absolute veto vested in the majority. Mr. CAMPBELL said that if any member declared himself injured, he might appeal to the Presbytery, from the Presbytery to the Synod of the province, and from that to the Supreme Court. Mr. CUMMIN BRUCE said it had been stated that the Presbytery had changed their opinions on this subject. He could show, that from having been the advocates of State en dowment, they had become the advocates of the voluntary principle, and no connexion whatever with the State. Having some knowledge of the circum stances, he felt bound to rise in his place and de clare; that it was impossible for any man to discharge the ,duties which devolved upon him more conscientiously, and with greater anxiety to consult the good of the people than his Right Hon. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home De partment. The clergyman of the parish of Elgin, wearied by the harassing discussions which were taking place, determined to accept of smaller remuneration and leave the town. The moment his determination was known an active canvas ills commenced in favour of a Non-Intrusionist minis ter. It had been stated by Lord Moncrieff before the Com mittee, that those who were anxious for a change in the law were always more zealous than those who were contented with the law as it stood. There was a great division of feeling in the town of Elgin ; but Ile could confidently state that by far the greater number of respectable persons in the parish were opposed to the views of the violent Non-intru sionists. But the opposite party having taken .the field be fore them had induced a number of persons residing in a separate district, and who never, on ordinary occasions, voted in matters connected with the parish, to originate the petition in favour of the Non-Intrusionist candidate. That petition was signed by 132 persons, whilst 92 signed and supported the other candidates. What, under these circum stances, was the course pursued by his Right Hun. Friend the Secretary of State for the Home Department. That he might not give offence to either party he determined to pass by both the candidates and choose some other person to perform the duties of minister. He had had some cor respondence with his Right Honourable Friend on the subject, and in the course of that correspondence his Righs Honourable Friend stated that no political consideration would be allowed by him to affect his decision on such a subject— ( Hear, hear.) That declaration was received with the greatest satisfaction in the parish. His Right Hon. Friend sought out a person whom he thought fitted to discharge the duties. Great excitement existed in the parish ; if either party had been pre ferred, the other would have been dissatisfied. His Right Hon. Friend, however, appointed a gentleman who, he was happy to say, had been received in the parish with such unanimity, that no attempt had been made to exercise a veto upon him ; there was a general feeling that he was discharging his duties with advantage to the parish, and with advantage to the cause of religion.—( Hear, hear.) Such was the plain statement of the exercise of the Crown patronage by his Right Hon. Friend, in the parish of Elgin. kle must say that politics had been mixed up to a great extent with the conduct of the Non-Intrusionists; as far as they were concerned, it was a mere political question. He was astonished to hear the taunt thrown out against the Government, because they were determined to uphold the law of the land.--( Hear, hear.) It was complained that they did not bring forward a new law, to settle the question in Scot land. But what encouragement had the majority of the Scot tish Church given to Government to undertake the settlement of the case? Before they were entitled to call for a new law, they had a right to show their readiness to obey the law as it now stood, or that they would be ready to obey any new en actment which might be passed. They had put forward pre tensions as an ecclesiastical body, such as never had been heard of, or advanced under any reformed Church—pretensions which }sad only been put forward during the ecclesiastical tyranny of the tenth century —( Hear, hear.). They claimed a right to declare what was the civil, and what was the Ecclesiastical law, and to determine what was the civil interpretation of a civil statute. What did such an assumption of power involve? It involved this—that an unfortunate individual might be punished, on the one hand, for a violation of the law, as de clared by the sup reme ' e i v il tr ib unal ; and that, on the other hand, he might be punished for a violation of the same law, according to the interpretation put upon it by the Ecclesiasti cal Court. That had actually taken place in the case of the Strathbogie ministers, who, because they had declared their determination to obey the civil law, had been punished by the Ecclesiastical Court, and subjected to the most cruel and unjust persecution which men had ever undergone.—( Hear, hear.) He believed that a large portion of the Ministers to the Scottish Church were disposed to yield obedi ence to the law, but that they were afraid to own their real sentiments. But he for one felt no such fear, because, if his seat depended upon the course he might take upon that subject, he would throw his seat to the winds, and opehly express the sentiments which he sincerely entertained.--( Hear, hear.) Seven most respectable ministers had declared their readiness to obey the law of the land as it stood unrepealed upon the statute-book ; and what had happened? The General As sembly of the Church of Scotland, although a large portion of their body, was not affected by the same strange hallucination as the majority, suspended those ministers for the course they had pursued. He had stated these facts for the pnrpose ofjusti fying the Gentlemen for their conduct on the subject. He did not mean to say that the Act of Queen Anne was in all respects a perfect Act, It might be very desirable that that Act should be reconsidered; but he thought that before they legislated anew upon the matter, the Church of Scotland, by manifesting its readiness to obey the law, should put them in a position to do so. The Church of Scotland, even now, was invested with great power, inasmuch as it had the sole right to empower any parties, in the first instance, to act as Ministers. He would cite an instance of the abuses to which their present assump tion of a predominance was calculated to give rise. In the pa rish of Dalgieth, in Invernesshire, which con.isted of a popula tion of 1.79 d souls, there were but nine communicants who claimed the light to sanction the appointment of a minister ; of these nine communicants six refused to receive an unexcep tionable presentee of the Crown, and out of those six three could not write their names. Yet, in compliance with the veto law of the General Assembly, those six old men were able to keep 1,7t10 souls without a minister fur the last three years. lie thought it was unnecessary for him to say a wordmore upon time subject ; but as allusion had been made to the year 1649 lie hoped the House would excuse bins for reading a passage from Mr. Chalmers, who wrote a history of the rebellion in Scotland in the reign of James the Sixth. The Hon. Member then read a very long extract deecribing the state of the Church of Scotland at that tine; that there was a strong feeling in favour of the Presbyterian Church, which was strengthened by the attempts of Charles to impose Episcopacy upon the Scotch nation, which was one of the causes that brought his neck to the block. After drawing a picture of the state of society at that period, the passage went on to say that the community were possessed of enthusiasm, and the clergy became masters of the whole power of the State. A few laymen united with the clergy, formed themselves into a Committee, and exercised all the functions of the State, and it was cutious, continued the Hon. Member, that the historian described the Duke of Argyll sit ting in the midst of them like the divinity of some pagan wor- ship, apparently inert and insensible, but the prime mover of all their designs. Such was the extract that came under his eyes, and it was singular that it was a descendant of that Duke of Argyll who had introduced a Bill on the subject in another place. He believed the motives of the present Duke of Ar gyll were those of pure patriotism and benevolence.—( Hear, hear.) lie knew his intentions were to compose the dissen lions of the Church of Scotland, but he believed he was mis taken. He gave him credit for the most benevolent intentions and Christian charity.--( Hear, hear.) He thanked the House for the patience with which it had listened to him, and the Right lion. Baronet for the manner in which he met the mo tion before them.—( Hear, hear.). Mr. DUFF said he hoped the House would excuse him for rising to repel a charge made en a relative of his, Lord Bute, by the Hon. Gentleman.—( Hear.) He accused a relation of his, though he well knew the charge to be false.—( Order. ) The SPEAKER said that the Hon. Member had used words which he must know were unparliamentary, and which he must retract. Mr. DUFF had no objection to retract the expression, if out of order.—( Hear, hear.) But it was well known to the Hon. Member that Lord Bute had taken no share in the transaction to which the Hon. Gentleman alluded. Mr. C. BRUCE said he hoped the Hon. Member did not mean to attribute to him any intention to make statements which he (Mr Bruce) knew were not true. He made the state ment that his Noble Friend had declined to sign a petition in favour of a person of the name of Stewart. He did not think it derogatory to the Earl of Bute so to act, but that he had signed the petition after to favour the views of the party to whom the Noble Lord was attached.—( Cries of " Divide, divide.") Sir A L. HAY would not detain the House. He only ruse for the purpose of explaining that, with r egar d to th e statement of the Hon. M em b er for Elgin, respecting the signing of the petition, it was never signed till after the whole of the late elections were over. Alter what had fallen from the Right Hoc. baronet, he did not intend to divide the house. he motion was then withdrawn. BONDED FLOUR. Mr. H UTT having moved for leave to bring in " A Bill to permit flour, or flour and biscuit, to be substituted for foreign wheat secured in warehouses." Sir R. Pe;EL said that the Hon. Gentleman having asked him a question whether he (Sir R. Peel) would object to his bringing in a Bill on the subject, he answered that he would not, at the same time he said that he could not be understood to express any opinion on the subject. Leave was then given to bring in the Bill. CHURCH OF SCOTLAND. Mr. ALEXANDER CAMPBELL they rose to move, ac cording to notice, for a Select Committee to consider the Con stitution and principles of the Church of Scotland, and to in quire into the causes of the collision between the Supreme Courts of that Church and the Supreme Civil Courts, and to report their ebservations thereon to the House, with power to send for persons, papers, and records. He begged to say, in proposing this motion, that he might have expressed himself in the previous debate somewhat t oo strong l y , but he ass ure d the House that he was led into those expressions only by his warm feeling on the subject, and not by any intention to give offence to anyone.—(Hear, hear.) He was induced to bring forward this motion in consequence of a declaration on the part of the Government, that the law was already sufficient to determine the disputes which had arisen ; whereas it was his opinion, that when two Courts, which were co-ordinate and independent, as were the Ecclesiastical and Civil Courts of Scotland, came into collision, it was necessary that a higher power should interpose and decide between them. Mr. COWPER said that he considered himself one of those who were referred to by the Hon. Member who had just sat down. But he looked for nothing else in the discussions upon this question but its speedy settlement. —( He ar hear.) And he would d o any t hi ng i n his power to wrest the 'Church of Scotland from the danger with which she was threatened. He could not think that there was any ground for refusing to sift thoroughly the question in dispute. The law which the Church asserted was said by the Civil Courts to be opposed to the statute law of the land. The General Assembly on the other hand contended that the law set up by the Civil Courts was opposed to the fundamental laws of the Church, and to the Act of Union.—/ Hear, hear.) The question of non-intrusion was sufficiently narrow and simple. It was allowed by the Civil Courts that the congrega tion had a right to reject a minister. But those Courts asserted that reasons must be assigned for the exercise of that right. But, he would ask, was it reasonable that that House, which hail a right to refuse its confidence to a Minister of the Crown, as he refused his to the Right Honourable Baronet opposite. was bound to give the Crown such reasons as would satisfy the Sovereign judicially, that the reasons were well founded? It was not sought to take from the patron the power of nomi nating, but to apply to it such cheeks as would require them to consult the wishes and the religious feelings of the congre gations; and what in fact had been the working of the veto ? Amidst all the excitement that had prevailed, out of two hun dred and thirty appointments my seventeen had been vetoed. He thought that if the Government would concede the point of non-intrusion, which the Church had declared to be one of her fundamental points of doctrine, that the question might be easily arranged. As to all claim of the Church to entire freedom from all interference of the civil jurisdiction, he thought that clai.n unmaintainable ; but he thought the Go. vernment ought to concede the point of non-intrusion. He should vote for the Committee. Sir J. GRAHAM said that the lon. Gentleman who had just sat down had said that he had confidence in her Majesty's Government. The Hon. Member, on this question at least, must have had as little confidence in the Government of Lord Melbourne. Lord Melbourne said that he was satisfied with the law regulating patronage in Scotland; and being so satisfied, he mu s t refuse a n ythi ng lik e a C omm i ttee o f Inquiry, because the granting of such Committee would be equal to an admission that the law required alteration. Now he (Sir J. Graham) and his colleagues came to the same conclusion with Lord Melbourne, that it was right to stand by the law of Scot land, as declared by the Hous of Lords It wastrue that, in matters ecclesiastical in Scotland, the General Assembly was supreme. It was true that in matters civil the Court of Session was su preme, and a difference had arisen as to whether this question was a question relating to matters ecclesiastical or matters civil. A collision had been the consequence, anti an appeal to the House of Lord s h a d resulted. '1 he ouse had given a final judgment, deciding that the Veto law was at variance with the law of the land. Such being an exposition of the state of the case, he felt he should be acting inconsistently with his duty. and that the Government would be betraying a weakness of purpose, if he should consent to the appointment of a Com mittee of Issquire. He would , draw the attention of the House to the teemsof this motion. The motion was for a Committee to consider the situation and principles of the Church of Scot land. Were people to submit the whole question of the con stitution of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland to a Commit tee of the House, would the Right Hon. Gentleman opposite, who was such a stickler for Presbyterian Church Government, consent to submit to a Committe of the House of Commons ? a question so extensive as the constitution of the Church of Scotland—a matter not of fact, but of law and principles ? Those who considered, with the Government, that the pre sent state of the law was fixed and settled would regard the appointment of such a Committee with dismay, as calculated to unsettle the law, whilst those who were of a contrary opi nion would consider it a triumph. He thought it would be in judicious and dangerous to appoint a Committee, and there fore he must oppose the motion. Mr. FOX MAULE was perfectly able to reconcile the vote he was about to give in favour of the motion, with those Pres • byterian feelings to which the Right Hon. Gentleman had ap pealed. He had come down to the House rather inclined to vote against the motion, but having heard the instructions of her Majesty's Government, and knowing the Committee could only inquire into facts relating to the constitution cf the Church of Scotland he should vote in favour of it. They could not give power to any Committee to alter the constitution of the Church in any way, because that was a power which the Legislature itself did not possess. The Right Honourable Gentleman had alluded to the dffference between the power of the Courts Ecclesiastical and Civil. H e (M r . F . Maule) thought it right that the public in England should thoroughly understand what was going on in the North, which they did not understand at present, although the effects of it might soon reach their own firesides. With regard to the Church of Scotland itself, he felt convinced that it was fixed upon such solid foundation that it would emerge from all its difficulties and be mere triumphant than it had ever been, even in its brightest days. The Right Honourable Gentleman had said that in the Auchterarder case the Church had agreed to refer the question of jurisdiction to the House of Lords, and he said that if the decision had been the other way, they would not have heard about it. The Church had referred that question to the House of Lords only for the purpose of determining how far the Court of Law could go with regard to the temporalities of the living, and the moment that was decided to be a matter subject to the cognizance of the Civil Court, the Church had succumbed and had directed the Pres bytery of Auchterarder, not to proceed with the just decolutum, not to take advantage of what had occurred. So far as this had gone they had bowed to the decision of the law, and would do so in all others relating to their civil rights. Then, again, a great deal hal been said of the rebellion of the Church and of the persecutions of the seven minis ters- Now what had those seven ministers done? Mr. Edwards had been presented by the patron to the living of Stratbogie ; personally, he was unexceptionable but having acted as a political agent in the parish, he certainly ought not to be appointed. The appointment was vetoed, and Mr. Edwards appealed to the Court of Session, to order the Presbytery to admit him, which they had no power to do. What did those seven gentlemen do? Did they appear in Court? Did they appear to bow t the authority of the superior Church of Scotland ? No such thing. They entered the Civil Courts, and by their own application obtained a decree against them, in order to that which they held to be necessary to their ordination. They could no more compel a Presbyterian to ordain any person, any more than a Churchman. These men were ordained, and the Commission of General Assembly preceded to summon them to the Court ; eighteen months elapsed; every opportunity was given them to make an apology, but they did not adopt that course. The Church had been driven from corner to corner by those who ought to protect her. Sir ROBERT PEEL said the Right Hon. Gentleman who had just sat down was not deeply impressed with the importance of this motion, as the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been directed to another subject. lie had said nothing whatever in favour of the present motion, and he (Sir 13. Peel) would have felt very much surprised if he had, because the lone period he had been con nec t e d wit h S cot l an d , and the long period he'had been in office, and that office connected with Scotland. if he had thought the appointment of a Committee would bring about an advantageous settlement of the question, he (Sir Robert Peel) thought he would have acquiesced in the motion. The late Lord Chancellor, Lord Cottenham, had expressed an opinion in which he (Sir Robert Peel) felt strongly disposed to concur upon this subject —he must say that on the question of whether it was desirable to introduce a measure into Parliament, for the purpose of settling that ques tion, there must exist very strong grounds for believing that the proposed measure would be adopted by Parliament, and, if adopted, that it would be a final settlement of the question. It did appear to him that he was justified in recommending such a course to the House. The opinion, therefore, of Lord Cut tenham was, that it would be a fruitless proceeding with Par liament. Now, if the Right Honourable Gentleman had felt the same, on this subject, as the Government with which he was connected in 1840, he could not acquiesce in the motion. They (the late Government) did not adopt any measure of their own, because they thought that in the then existing tern. per of the people of Scotland, they could not bring it to a satis factory determination ; it was perfectly open to them to appoint a Select Committee if they pleased, but that being the way in which a shabby Government would transfer its responsibility to a Seteet Committee, they did not appoint such a Committee ; he (Sir Robert Peel) looked upon this question as a most important one; it was im poss.the for any man to lament more deeply and moresincerely than he did the present condition of the Church of Scot land; he had always felt deeply interested in the moral, the spiritual, and the social interests of Scotland; with a view to settle the unhappy occurrences which had taken place in the Church of Scotland, he strove to conduct his relations in such a way that these occurrences should he satisfacto rily determined; the whole of his official relations with Scotland were of uninterrupted harmony, and perhaps that was the very reason he now more deeply lamented the condition in which the Church of that country was in. It was attempted to bring matters to a satisfactory termination, but it was ascertained that there was not that disposition amongst the public in Scotland which was likely to secure a satisfactory adjustment, and it was his (Sir R. Peel's) firm belief, that to attempt to legislate, and to fail, would only have the effect of increasing the difficulties ; one of the reasons assigned for appointing a Select Committee to inquire into this question was, that English gen tlemen should thereby pe l ocure information upon the subject ; if that was the object, he should say that he would be able to WILSON'S NIGHT 11 . x BURNS."' Mr. Wilson's " Night wi' Burns," pre-advertised for very on Monday at th e M us i c - rooms in Store -street, drew tog'; Cher a full and attentive audience. The early life of 13° ',, formed the fi rs t su bdi v i s i on o f t h e syllabus—the youth and 17,0 hood of Burns, w h en as yet t h e embryo and inchoate poet and fast shooting up i n t o th e stature of man, both in win" /Dd body, but not in an Edi n b urg h or Gl asgow University, or tigir the dusty termi n ol og i es an d a b stract metaphysics of Dr. P il li. or Dr. Reid, the S co tti s h sop hi sts of his day, but ami d the tea mitable light and th e a i r , l earn i ng large and unsophist, i % a lessons of wisdom i n th e fi e ld s and pastures, that made n i an d man, manlike, and imbued his spirit w.th those sympathieg feelings that caused his nature to overflow with the bright ta e of heroism, tendern ess , an d l ove. Mr. Wilson, with a 15j3 spirit of fervour, co-allied himself well with the subject of firer lecture. Love, he proceeded to show, was the h is P is l i e li of his earliest song, and the genuine feeling w ,i c iti prompted the first outpouring of his heart, being that also w" t, pervaded the hundreds that followed, was the true cau se , a ns had led to their subsequent adoption and translation in Ger"i r it,, French, and Danish. Being the natural vintage of his s P u t,• the universality of his songs was no wonder, and, thereforewtheo served Mr. Wilson, my surprise was somewhat mitigated, (fi e. in 1840, on crossing the Atlantic, and landing at Halw :n . i ot my first salutation by a countryman was " Och, mon, y , e'r e i n cl, come in the nick o' time; this is Burns' birthday !' truly, across the wilderness of waters, there, on the:',-'d o eti", ? ; day, were feasts of celebration dedicated to the r e. l a master of melody." B urns ' s pre dil ections at school were t he - corded by Mr. Wil son t o h ave b een among such reading' s 6 2 , s ,4 d, " Vision of Mi rza ," an d i n a devotional point of view a o. .it dison's Hymn." Religion ' indeed, sway e d him in he powerful manne r; hi s chief gratification, and upon whi c o ll: composed one of hi s fi rst poems, " W i nter, a dirge,' was to f t he up and d own a f orest-wa l k, am i d the solemn , swinging ° d in boughs, whil e t h e storm . w i nds drifted the snows and hew , ' „ ierd the mou n t a i ns . I t was then he fancied that " the 15 0 1 walked on th e w i ngs of the wind. " Among the nodeal, ancient virtu e th at too k hi m greatly was that of naiii- n a e r and beside him Willi am Wallace. Tile splendid ode a p p taming to thi s l ast h ero bears no trivial , ete ° ,', P it is the impression he had made upon his mind. a nd the grandest ode out of the Bible," said Professor Wilse n ' ve rl the emphasis with which the lecturer sang it, confirmed e n 0 hearer in the prepossession. From seventeen to twenqi iii ve ,80 less than half a dozen fair forms appear by turns ILO' 0 3 haunted the imagination of young Burns • each. Ike akw — e ach ful phantom, a p pear i ng an d t h en fl itting from before. but hii evoking from him song. " Handsome Nell," ihfsh we' first cha r m er; t o h er succeeded " Tibbie," /"'"00 were given to understand was an etheliptic for , bo g abella," whose other maiden name was Stephens; , 5 , blooming Peggy," p ro f use with fair hair, cherrrlit ar ie h e ' . coll '- smiles, he next id o li ze d , b ut f i nding her betrothed, " wa s farewell i n some e l egant stanzas. ••My Nannie of his';4oo another of his erotic effusions, addressed to a god" „ e e " tien t e lbil devotions, and this far from the last. Bums' . nu e r 92 " - sir , broke out more than once at school. " Nonsetoe , oit" 94fr his master, to a theme Burns had proposed to arit e nt , vrikoe° companion, as to whether a general or mere": before 11 f 01 0, most useful in society. "Sir," said Burns, `` well. ? 4 the whole school you like to argue it with The donsinie consented, and defended the g - • lee"' dui me' al ► f Burns stood up for the merchant; the young , , an dss .i,l bs tician was a stout gladiator, and finally old shook, and the contest was pronounced for Burns. , i n to IVY f . 7 Wi son, in the second part of his lecture entered la e eity ° the sad di ffi culties and troubles that distorted the s e e . r t ion.ds o i; Ferule s n iv. the good poet's life, and related, as the pleasantest ist the kindness he experienced from the Earl of Glenca!r s . 81 after this Lord that the poet's brother, Major Glencairn " en ,. . was lmed. This venerable gentleman occupied an t i!,hio0111: with his family the centre dress-box in the rooms% by the ,a isa nised, by bowing, the applause occasion:llc The . 0 .0 u tf lecturer's mention of his name aid pre- e e e of g race , e 0 1 6.4 affability •of Lord Daer, too, was En.rther ghrtillP:rith thirtr along the rugged path, which, as an exi is‘eni%.en he W h ir: , ,30 live pounds a-year, and a wife and two •hild penance. At the time that hu was a gatr yh t a h t is a . r t e ln y ce on w b r a s ila6 id s most detested of the kind in Scotla-d. " g with G an gers, fur, boy ?" " Devil's, what do you bait . I. L urn4s 4 , uone r is a characteristic anecdote of the period . B urn's B e , 6 , f lon w moon" song, composed by him on his marr her g the same sort 01 Jean," has little voluptuous in it, but is ra t her serious epithalamium as the Romans s ung, when the ha r was parted with a spear, and th e y iseman," " The Deil's airs the exc .5 was with excellent spirit. This bridde: sped from Mr. Wilson's lips song with which Burns, sword in hand, attackdedaceonngeid iaf tr f a o b r a i n n . ,, brig and valorously capture d her, havin g composethe, comrades on the occasion. Burns, in his last moments. i,ir dlirerti fear of gaol, and wr ote, under from t that te rror , far 5i to dying day, to _ o George T 'Thompson, to save h im . on his ladies called to see him ; o ne drew d own the Ont ce of In P t a r 1g ! the sun to be too fierce. "N o, dear," i cl shine on .it will not be for long ; let shine • , g oo comrade volunteers was in the room. Don't let t e n v ezw . me, John, " said Burns ; he was, ow squad l a i d in ii i r l e it: )er military honours . h urs. Since his death,. a sple t n h di 4 d i tr i ,n ew u h rn e 'V has beer. erected to him at Dumfries, an d o , 0 Mr. Wilson, we perceive, gives " Anither night tare Barns , u" Tuesday, the 22d ; and on Easter Monday, chi4A ,y for the P . veniles, a recapitulation of his choicest songs.. i t } , t„ 5 1 ' 111: ,