The Sun. — London, England, 1831-10-08 00:00:00

a I , ' I cs at bankers, no pape tented ? Whence, then, those numerous meetings through ,ow constitutes gh low constitutes a man's out the country? Whence th ose p o litical unions Lee. Is there no change (Cheers.) Whence those petiti ons t inder w hich your table tll a m an ' s p r operty an- groans? If it works so well, why was it that at the last I introduced a change general election there was one unanimous Parliament , what did I but restore elected to carry Reform into effect? My Lords, I am intended to be ? lam .one of the last men to h ave recourse to i ntimidation, ,u to reform the law that and one of the last to suffer it ; but I confess, fining stationary, a great my Lor t d h s e , gr t e h a a t t mee l tin c g a s nn t o u t wh r i e e g h ar y t ur w a i t t t h e o u ti t t iun g w re a a s me thing is true of Par ,ns first began, and bo eaelast there assembled—bound to say as an honest man anxiety,lld night. lam bound to say, out of respect to the multitude . . representative to Pat lia be filed in the Court of head of the Magistracy, —as a Minister of the Crown, and, above all, bound to say yarned Friend a k u n d ow w s he t u o as a Magistrate, and placed at the that all combinations But refuse to tomepeatymtghse, if they are not s King's taxes are s are lug h eager to retain certainly unlawful. t o Parliament, an d general, and have not leaders, are a mere br to e nzft a n en d le iCumbent on us to make and the way to deprive them of leaders an d put de of the representati and . on to such combinations, is to give them a place in Parlia iubmit to your Lordships all meet in this way—the Government hill be ment ; but if that combination continue—if the large in the community, de- small towns a .. . . Kling change in the law. resolved into its primitive elements. The Noble and by some well-turned Learned Lord then denied that be was an adorer of the mob, judiciously used. They or he might here have an opportunity of being a wor shippero an idol more powerful than that of Juggernaut , Does it, m y L or d s ? H ow lea it work well for those and declared that all such meetings would be put an end to thousand inhabitants, by giving the people representatives in Parliament. The resented in Parliament, Noble and Learned . Lord afterwards very happily compare! ' hoosing their Members the proceedingas Billin that House to the proceedings in the to amend the Peerage, which might eed, a great deal less than Commons d 4 055 i t, re L sitting near me. —(A laugh.) Works well, be sent o o n wn to the other House from the Peers ; l ' l 'Y Noble YFriend (the Duke of Devonshire) were one of and after ner corresponding to that which their Lordships now ! fl atlet, s u i are to give g to the Reform Bill—they having anxious to carry his goods to the best proposed d have it rejected—he stated that he was indeed, h"e Might have what he pleased. Higher rank, pees* fo r hi not have, unless a rank were made ex- nao e ve that every one of their Lordships would regard that Eferertninaide jo b ; .but what perpetuity of office, what in- sure uncourteous ry treatment. It would be considered his° tohhi o . might he not command, were he not averse as a unbearable and intolerable, and he adjured theis. Lord e natn e ...... t be it attd what number of his family, bearing ..O a at h ri ,.. op te.illustrious name, which is connected with ships not to imitate it, but allow the Reform Bill to be read a second time. The Noble and Learned Lord . then referred to what the Noble Earl connected with the h ;F ur r ui !i y 6 0 7 the e , ti . d of our history which placed the present rone, and secured to us the enjoyment of teak i berti es end " county of Kent (the Earl of Winchilsea) had said.hoefdt ase b. ! su c h . lavvs--if my Noble Friend had chosen to -.. e • -us f • • . in, h . eo n Press . last night, which that Noble Earl hid d kat in'tbi: vr!uerated is boroughs, is there any one person them o a s u t d tyrannical that any country had ever groaned then went on—My Lords, that the Press has anYthi. il° use ? M Noble Friend name, who might not have had a under , y .m i g ht h ave h a d great i nfluence . over the public opinion Ido not d . eny; . it 0 44; 1 ' but e_ . (e 11 2 3 Purp ose nag used his influence for the . more is most certain that that . influence depends sh o uu n ld its u g pp m a n s g e ho le s 1 1.) / r a.. , 0 of doing good to the community._ along with public opinion. If . the Press , it vm.. , 6, i not how the system works for him, I ask pand üblic opinion it would lose its power.. I will tell your 141 14..... 1 , 'its for the good of the 4 000 or 5,000 inhabi , . r ode ''''w it worksuch large sway over public opinion. Lordships . . what raises the Press into importance,... I gives it a Whe_ br a hint _ . s for them ? I sat in Parliament .for what eo s in In v , s _ . u uglas for three or four weeks, at that period decision will tell you where the basis is, which I hope is not a o , e gettr t f ies ` . .uuntry men conferred on me the greatest rock, but only—and that will depend . on your what the this night—a quick-sand. I will tell you me , .t: sit f or t hen confer on a subject—that of electing basis of the power of Press is : the Press has because chosen ell ' a r knare.,eergreat county of York; but at that period l l l to make itself the organ of . public opinion, When fur You howwu for three or four weeks, and I will that opinion wants an authorized organ. 7 you l ito 4 " forthe thoughsystem works. The Member who is ask where is its title—on what isit based . I . answer—on tpi co ntact _.toWn runs the risk of his life; he comes the ruin of all public confidence in what is called the v h ." ll hi m ~.`nth bricklayers, masons, and others, who of the people. On that is erected that • it e :eb . th ey m'eantaliainent by means of those missiles, with representa tion other representative system—the representation of the f tta s ude ed, t rually assail liim.—(A laugh.) I arrived daily and weekly journals. Those journals had set them tliaileN by h u. . ° days after the election, having been selves up as the rivals of the House of Commons. So iti ring ; but miss, and did not enjoy the honour of a et hi me friend long as the House of Commons had no standing to rest e: 4 °l, ye a , c, who had filled my place, when I i • the affections of the people, just so long would the p l aper, ho teriea_., oandaged about the bead with sometoing a ut s coif be the representatives of the public opinion just so . m . - ig, (I . : a Was t h e alas • I asked him if he had got a cold ? serriter.) Su el : I got a blow as your representati . ve. and no longer ; and if ever I felt confident of any opinion I may have formed, it is of the one I am now going bad ° tore n „ s u r el y, my Lords no constituent ever lin it. al! more , his representative,!for m representative to your Lordships—that in the passing of this Bill,. tender -set atie e eurdtoe and y ffi • the Press will not lose its 41 1 th e 1: : I ' Refor m benefits ofthe repro- n one of the and leave or of one of equal e ciency, • • d • for, God forbid, that in this influence—not be annihilate th e i.. , et.tefit ec ~ would take away the .burden, of to prevent its free country it ever should be either, so as eh o _ e ".u a ttbit antt 'of'ne r epresentation behind. .No onte is pointingmistakesthe out the errors of the people—thee f ice tvg their _cr th e borough has the . least interest t re resenta- Executive Government, or the n . eglect . o s f t 7 . t.' e will t...rrP esentattve—the choice of their repre- I t e it will P enjoy tives of the people. But my opinion is, .t la . t wei uut ho me "stored to them. At present the voters moderate, a constitutional, a safe, an innoxio . ,us an in th ,re mil r" are three or four farmers who live ten or a eus . ifluence over the public—all that is salutary rte, bu rgafre ° u, who ride into town before dinner, have lel retar their banded over to them, give their and °li u t s v e e ful remaining, and all that is noxious and hurtful hse swept away.—(Cheers ) I look on ; al n a l ss t ae e ia.. t oe ,' 4,0 % Pr qualification, and the election . is over. being whether in the Press, or in unions, i f l 'ery We habitants,na of whom this election is a growths, t he eY re ne 't to f • • • such ne— tions, or leagues . against the Exchequer, or secret . socie• 1 4 , 6. Wer e 41 s , . eel indignation at a sc . e d bred out of the corruption of the ties, as monstrous things sert _' , I will taind as not to be indignant at this e- When it has been feel 4141 Y 1 not B aY that I should despise them, but Present representation of the people. th answer is at indi Mild not h if they did not askee w 1 hat has given birth to them, e that which it,- ix. t; greant at thi respect tem it is no other power than th e 1%1 Wh om ? ..,.* cruel mockery. Work well does hand. Trust me, g of Ireland in 1782. for called together the volunteers W e l l e 'nber s ; i ' . F or the country ? No; nor yet than that which Trust me, it is DID other and ..,",, (Hea r , fur the borough proprietors it works (Hear.) .etereet ' hear, hear •) They dispose of the rights engendered . the Catholic Association. Trust in ) e, carry i ° F the • rights refused—(Loud cheers them . 4 th e i r poo oters--they dictate, by the votes they it is justice withheld, hear)—the folly of A d for wrongs perpetrated—(Hear, Par the W orks vr ~aete, to the Government.. against their will— n having that men can be governed aga be- Parc e l e Peopl e of well ! I say again, for whom? cheers __ inhabitants ) the idiotcy of supposing that the the South If the ~a f th e wh -c 'ngland ? Are the Members part and ( England are to be treated like the savages of ders sf°ll"nbers shot r epresentation of the people ?—No. of d 7 the frenzy of assuming that you can govern s o ,. ,- urga„ rePresented towns or counties, or the hint- Sea han s,. e n old ' e r•enur • men like children or like savages,—(Hear, • a es —(Hear, hear.) These th e pep ors, th e a, or the middle classes, or the 101. the country with these noxious ee° Ple • e Y alight feel • tin the welfare of it is which have peopled t "••••s om . . , th e y ,„. an totems . da ti aund ar e would have some sympathies with them row .the rank shoot up all these ths that have made . rice ea o f re interests, and might attend to some of the prodigious things, .which have and fright us from our sou s Purp„Ze:entativea. been seen, but our fears Holding their seats for no see- propriety. These things a c v o e urse, and instead of making seh ei i ttlen te, tZeut generally to represent the will of their have made us t t ,k e e wronga areut, it has made us wage a futile, Ine u e _ e eusti tuen Y ught have some connection with the us fling away h repr...'_l4 not coueYnt?f England. But if they represent . endless, fatal ') war with her gigantic offspring.— ) anu We have been going on like those before us ParCaelit nothing but, tee, not towns, not boroughs ; if they (Chee . rs. our unholy husbandry it is that has and „raent, theyg ° ut the individuals who send them to i n doing wrong, and h er ‘ a ° do n Ca n have no sympathy with the people, induced us to sow injustice, and thence to reap disaffee li , e l are h as n other work but that of their patrons. tion.—(Cheers.) My Lords, I use no language of inti- If n- tg eir d e tallre a , 'my L ords,suchpatrons marshal- midation. We stand now on the brink of a great event. some N Wale i n p. . of the decision p ower . Wale Patrons athament for their . own purposes.. . —(Hen-, hear.) We are now on the eve of th e i r for good , others , like my Noble Friend, use their of this gre , at measure; and it behoves you to consider, lik e Men a h er ` a ls n others may use it for ill. They have when men tell you that o__y— youe should not heed clamour., ek e regular bud the word of command, disciplined that there is d no . 11 that there is no meaner. c w ab o 'e kind of fear, than for men of a De ~1 13 ' tO th at si , ° Y of troops, always ready to secure the baser, more esPl allows the weight of reflection and the D u k °Natl., even ue ofty were commanded to aid. They frame of mind that Or e :; 1. for th obtaining a victory than was the Noble power of reason to be afraid of being accused of fear. My Neh i r gY, wh o ", operation cannot be interrupted by any Lords, I am now speaking is2 in the same hall where your 8 ; and in that ball, though der st l I ,.. ) Uke h. n „, w _!ll not say might have prevented the Lordships sat in the l yea a r r Sam( manner as this, I hea d the • tir ruy 'us tekcs untaining a victory, but might have ren- not quite in so d regu eriti, J l° 3' 1. 0 1 In ' r e difficult B t th" • ' is Pailiamentary argument urge , for . the purpose of preventing your argument I._ t at ti r '•s, of t ' u Lordships from liberating the Catholics. 8 T .d ha t t hat it was ne e d Ine i nto welve or fourteen voters, thrown at a th , „ til e vi. „,, Ie s cale, always turned the balance and did prevent that liberation. It was . %°°o4e r ba ugh t e i t if --- (Hea ' -s Noble proprietor of a troublous time—that there was much t , 1 incur abroad— :, Q -14g . ~ aeowed r.) The " aye s e7,40d tea some of his people to go a lark and furintimidationyou fear of being thought to yield to ; A t uok ea , I 'lled th a , a Partridge shooting, when, perhaps, shut your ears to the voice of reason. The summer paseei ith ner fruits and her abun tullattu-ie tu h av ,tueY should be present ; but he always over. Autumn came on, w . ae que uee t luesti on , 'mein back early enough to decide any dance ; but she brought not the precious gift of domestic tere th °I . thi s? ' W Anil what, my Lords, was the con peace. The rage of popular feeling went on; and the cligoose el l only t t h Ya the members of that family, who election of a Catholic Member to sit in a Protestant House :, r : an d bete aranets, got possession of seats in this of Commons took place thesea Winter bound the earth in its repil eil eitr.) it r . l . 4 . e are amongst your Lordships.— chains, but it hound not of Irish agitation, for its ' Pehi i the 4 0 w orks well, does it ! How ? Because, it surge Jlashed more !mous! than ever against the Consti y d its season, but unaccom np l o ti e opi n i n u se of Commons is sometimes influenced tu•ion. Then Spring opene . t ' 44 . ll ' run • e r - "C alw aYe influenced by public opinion in panied by its wonted harmony, for it had no ethereal mild tvent 4 the Can"'at Ireland much fiercer may be true, but.itruns for a long ness, there being at that moment in . nati o Y Years to e the Slave T'. 1 itrunning for agitation than before, and ten thousand times more reason lish °of he' o th e ,___ ace _rat! was . didyour h.. n ame, pe ?p i e . 75 , of Parliament, to the In g- di for fear than in the preceding July. And what .e 1 7 Oth er Whi c h' :_n_u to the great disgrace of the Eng- Lordships do, when } the only change that bad taken place eight months' was increase of tumult, "gr. T e ettnt r i ee e t " u.nly . saved from eternal obloquy in those seven or _ eran _ f u er th e I,:tlunk tl onttnuing the dothorri traffic still augmentation of clang , _ d great embarrassment of all our Lordships do; "urc e - •=ru e ~L ' e S lave Trad • t • ears ontin ent circumstances? What did y t 4 0 , ro ad wee r , i e continu wen y . yea c . g use, e 4 nio , nY eloquent Friend, Mr, Wilber- Wisely, patriotically, firmly, you saved your coon ry— D 'ould The " eloquent speech ins' it in the (Loud cheering)—you refused any . longer to listen to the the se ° ever P ea t cause s e s i • h again -4 said :,arli, n -a ve been tic he undertook to advocate senseless "Do not emanci cuckoo note of those who said , .. . ~ t bat ' uell t bee suffered to e centinue so long had pate them,for if you do, it will be through intimidation. ' l O th war s • n refor med rri am bound to say, he eY wii i will jade t . • ele Noble Earl has —. ( Cheers.) But, at the same im , eelli ße ; . a with a Reformed Parliament, and that if youhad nol ist ened to these reasons year after year ttviebreettt viola his that vs long as the constituent is a for about twent d y d prec t e h a g i years, that measure Would Ik e ,), .belli i gereut ,rePresentative, if he be freely chosen, have been atten ewi tenfold more beneficial effect 11, 0 ' ate u nder a'' modars will, I believe, unhappily than then, when, blessed be God !it did pass, through Than Pei be o f a Pief or -4 th Ruch 1_ Parliament, but they will not, the instrumentality beg a e Am ei i e ung duration• Not further back say,that however highlyhold . I his military achievements. „ 0 ee ar , an w ar , • to goit r e° Ple b e ,' ,"titldle, „.„ , wnich 'allow was natural, for still morehighly do I think of his achievements in favour tUr a i "'shed. — 4 ` . • Was it • • - ; f or Th e , continued longer thanthe , of the Catholics.—(Hear.) And now,. my Lords, to war . , tny Lord 4:Trench war also, I allow, was na- apply this branch of history—for history it has become-- I dyou are now placed- in alartn' and in my h . 8' ' ranch was not • from that to the present time. My —Or 1, • become— sober' " th"ght that day, f__ ‘ . ar.rse the foolish general this dilemma. If you refuse Reform now, under el . and to hat wee ' . 7)4 or sharing the % Nit, a ' I °f in really be afraid.—(Cheers.) You y _able .reason, • in . comb ed with the de- which wise men will h he e- 0 eff nd n , , ,eAri.s. Friend at th e be f t Govern- may have to live aortong t e arts of an alienated :gze ,ete, Y c'" It!gilt Honour bl e I ‘ l lo, utl em _ ll ' .! 1 n n „ a 1 h a a ge In iny 0 „ : _. a e Friend, have lonyou may have to live among tens of thousands ho p hate shallleagued g ou—you may have to live when all men be Pre - " °a ld his a allu ded to kulun ' . If the Right . Hon. y you ; for it is you alone that stand between them ~ Prat rei,u , , great spi rit b had lived to see this day, against their wishes.—(Continued cheers.) But some one it:ay:lain ' aufrtisiful.hieb he inadvee:ejoiced at witnessing the . andhas said, that none but the Aristocra d cy ti a ia r t e oppo e se h d u t t n t t l i t , e e soul f ' we me „ 'iis_sPirit be pericr,itmat e a d nY to sa vTs . i i t ik t .e h s is in ea v r a tli n , Bill—Good God, I f deny m i m t a l —a s, ll and . the n i 2 ; n eopl e ( people—(the 'e My hay dell g j h te u d P, e t, ' be now hovering over scenes lie ralible, the house o_ force that)—are ll for it ! Then the ' l ight 4 0 ' 1 ' uninformed° coat ow But in my early life, people—a pretty . d Perhaps . n .Fri ende, I tb 1 goo The people for whom the Aristocracy u s i e it by the wisdo m of my Noble and people are for it . whom the Crown has been con ght nave b e ar ' ; 1. ought the French war justified, and has been constituted—for .o._ tv ay e 1,„ gut I ani .. . ) for whom the laws have beee mi/d save "en the just' positively certain, whatever stituted—(Loud cheering )—for t enoin . ice of that war in its origin, that it enacted—for whom the Government has been conti ;eel— Part e i f ''', l tli th e are l in peace and ought to have t b whom the Government is . supported—whom it ishound tain , the ~ tri, 4- rec eipt of the ' I letter written by ter- y _ cannot e-ist 4u instant, without whom It ...' no one b t th 00t. as that I e,..'ainent bad been reformed.et Bona- to serve ) But then, says sonic one, t mt u e ~e ...' 24 v e be en s - 0 1 14 here, my Lords, that that War would (C.l.teeresr.ae is opposed to it. I beg deny toGraciousl p p - G ru jid u ; L or u d ' .. ; . hut i f i , °ng continued with a Reformed Parli s A i t t i l o st n ° with noose• It is ea . ' 1 are so enlisted ? . i d a, v . ° u.d, that proved nothing. But m a y - who dares to say that the aristoct l a k cy n th i 0 about this being of emnalaa:.t public opinion finds its way into , the (Cheers.) Men have gone on d ta b Way, e ._ epirit f the rep 4thL ow ? It finds a t • talking democrats—a say contrary a measure only brought forward by te y c „au— dit 0 ° "'aY that leadstrt r and that no sensation --it finds a dangerous thing unheard of among the aristocracy—and leayezes.titution asid e a" of it. Let me by 0 perils, and sets the authorities of man of property can bear the 1 Ministers e. have twice as sp ur its e lf . 0i ; It has no legal way, and opens a the way remark, that the present , fou r the occafionniun's e Ca - oinet that re temperately formed, not on the much property as woe possesiied bY tine t opi iiiea , ough t to be h s out well-weighed and deliberately fiased Iteforin.—(l-lear, hear.) Ido . tio . a pply this to my forced 8 °llght t o i nfi eard ' but at all events, Ido not ' say'thaCteinperate self, for God knows thet I have nothin . g t , l' of the Constitu eue _war slit ~ , o_uence Parliament. Such an opinion what little I have depends on the stabi i 4 0 ` 1 . ,tat estnall " . Walpole, that wise, peaceable, and enli ht• tion.—(Hear, hear.) My sovereign has y been pleased to w i t 1 ". 0 not nave -t . t we had a Reformed Parliamentgtake from situation of very great wealth and . e thie perfectly ). lllt ° he we me a . improper w a of • •x -does i t we, tament. with any e But still tli3e,ystoeputln:on works, its independent,Ai Lords ,besis I be h m a g veei) the people ?unaccompaniedarged a situation of office Are they satisli v e l) d r .s a * nd How con- P p e o n w e e; for y one that has nothing but a troublesome eel 0 tf perty in the funds, no accounts 'e life, bil 1 ' iey, and n ine -tenth s of whit nc i tubeLo .perry had not come into existence ....tv _, P ti 4 , re? Ti,e law intended to mak e al s ue r. i :'enable for his debts ; and when r.) ere 0 : , make that property answerable, if "the o __ be ' e law to what it was originally in eak f.,,., ,posed to change, but I asked you ea k ots ;-, might not ite in Itself, by remain cioe if 1 ange from its intention. The sat classes_we ,t ,i4lneisn_tarY Reform. When election Atee2oe, itien g t a. wer e n ot ~,,,:i i:_ _ .ing to send rc porch pro' , kings —when informations had to b h the it Bench, as my Noble and Lea . 011,4 n n Pel them to send Members to r e the 'L i , 'lungs are D ow 'sit t' e f the p t i vi 80 changed, borou; igli uzio ' eges of sending Member active,have 0 such 147tet: marea_e it, is it not inc oioo. to _he ,tatio will adapt the seal d a ta r to that .te±er.ed state of things? Isu detes..toy, 'nand have been great change s i led 7,bicb k an tat our are correspond strY ior h Y Noble Lord are captivated Thatoar A rases, op po rtunely and not inju no r e tt f re ZY,th..e systena works well. Does 11 k _'"e the system work well ? Does eve °tin:, ,tv"hTtl,ghisionf four thousand or five 'coo' '...1 , Ca ,he 100'1 but wh o 4 : t tn? of, and have reprs _ithoe, than an Y e no more to say in cl t w lee. Yof your Lordships ; indeec rcy a a r• d. C Lord sitt;.— - .nd ins °" coe r iff Pr_A bf of ori t if the pt rlia ree t vie ° s m ed! opP3 ave 0 0 ' f s ot 1 0 1 o fer o 00 utio.„ to ; ir oa tti imp tbid: tbf b es of ea° lie 6 Id 1 his n ;1 Ot h Je P e ° :0 01 o€l pp C 3lo° ha , be t e ;on e toe hav e of d ' at ' tt" bit t re t i p terP ' sb e ia ' f°l d l ieof ° I nY e st du oi Lib r rig anY " na °re f , t I S 1110 ° ,4 1 ibk 01 0 :iCb iPf °l° a COI a 131 11 11 Of' 'teek Wel : ls' bea " l s 0 . 1 0 pOr ,oe 1 orer uVe ns jl , r eh° u 1 0 ere sV.- with patronage attached to it ; and if any one is pleased to doubt that the Member for Yorkshire, with a leading position in the House of Commons, is not equal to a seat in this House, with the insecure tenure of Government office, I am not the man.—(Hear, hear.) By my change of position I have lost a large income ; and I will therefore trouble your Lordships not to take away the little that I have left.—(A. laugh.) I look upon my self as in greater jeopardy than my Noble Colleagues and Friends; for do not let any one suppose that the Aristocracy will be at an end, even if the House of Lords should be injured. But I shall be at an end—worse off than any of my colleagues.—(Hear , and a laugh.) Well, then, I am j ust as friendly as any one can be to the Con stitution, and am just as much bound up as any one can be in the stability of the national institutions.—(Hear.) But, my Lord, are the Ministers the only persons that are in favour of the Bill?—(Cheers.) Is not the Earl Mar shal in favour of the Bill—and have we not aristocracy in him? Is not the Duke of Bedford for the Bill ?—the Duke of Devonshire —(Hear, hear, and order, order.) Well, I know it is disorderly; but it does not seem so for others, on that side, to name their friends by the Christian natne.—(Laughter and loud cheers.) We have heard of of John Russell and William Cavendish.—(A laugh, and hear.) But what say you to all these? My Lords, are they not aristocrats? Have they no property in the country?— no distinctions ?—no titles ?—no Norman blood ?—(A laugh)—or whatever it is of which you are all so proud ? —(Cheers.) After this, I think I may say that the idea of stating that this Bill is only supported by the democracy, and opposed by the aristocracy, is one of the wildest delu sions that could be found in any of the cells in Bethlersa Hos pital.—( Cheers. ) But I shall not only stand upon the point of wealth and rank, I shall also ask your Lordships to look at that of numbers ; and for that purpose will men tion a calculation that has been made relative to the Peers created before the accession of George 111. My Noble and Learned Friend (Lord Wynford) has blamed us for creating Peers lately. But what would he have? Persons on his side of the House forced us into a Corona. tion, whether we would or no ; and then, when we create Peers—and observe, too, just to a unit the same number as those created at the Coronation of George the `Third, there is an outcry raised against us. But it was_said, why not make our enemies Peers? Why not.—(A laugh.) Why, my Lords, twenty Peers were made at a batch formerly, and not one of them ever voted against Mr. Pitt.—(Hear, hear.) But I was about to request your Lordships to look a little towards the ancient Aristo cracy of this House. There are fifty-four old Peers ranking before the accession of George 111., who will vote for this Bill, according to their expressed opinion, and twenty-five who will vote against it; and yet we are told the old English Nobility have all with one voice sworn open war against the measure.—(A laugh, and loud cheers.) Your Lordships may pass this Bill, and then we shall have peace and contentment ; but I much rather dread another alternative. I dread that it may be refused and that you may afterwards be induced, under other 11E nisters, in less auspicious times, to grant a far more exten sive measure than that which is now proposed.—(Loud cries of " Hear.") The old classic story will apply here. Oh, my Lords, let the old illustration of the Sybil never, never be forgotten by you.—(Hear, hear.) On no one question of practical politics has it so direct a bearing as on this. You now have offered to you the volume of peace. The price that you are called upon by that prophetic Sybil to pay is, to restore under restriction—under modifica tion—under great modifications—the old fabric of the representative Constitution. You will not take the vo lume; you will not pay that price—that moderate price! The Sybil darkens yous doors no longer. You repent— you call her back—she returns: the leaves of peace are tmalf torn out, and it is no longer the yolume that first was offered : but she demands a still larger price, and you must now pay !or it with Parliaments by the year, elm ! rims by millions, and voting by ballot—you will not pay that price, and again you send her away. What the next price may be that she will demand and that you must pay, is more than I will say. This I know as sure as man is man, and human error leads to human disap pointment, justice delayed, wisdom postponed, must enhance the price of peace.—(Loud cheering.) My Lords, !Isere_ is yet an awful consideration connected with this subject. You are judges in the highest Court in the last resort; and it is the first office of a Judge never to decide even the most trifling case without hearing every thing. But in this case you are going to decide without shearing—without a trial.—(Continued cheering.) My Lords, beware of standing out on this sacred subject. You may obstruct—you may put off the day —you may give a temporary life to the borough jobber, and post. pone the elective franchise to the greatest towns of the realm; but, my Lords, that delay will have no effect in raising the respect of this House, and in conciliating the affections of the people Of this country.—(Hear, hear.) My Lords, I wish you, because I belong to you—because I am a good subject of the King—because I am a friend to my country—but, above all, because my whole life has been devoted to obtain, confirm, and perpetuate peace abroad and at home—l wish you, nay, by all these rea sons, and by these motives, 1 pray and beseech you not thus to reject-this Bill—l call on you by all you hold most dear—l call on every one, except those who think no Reform necessary, and they alone can give a consistent vote against the Bm1I—( Hear, hear)—l call on you by this solemn appeal—and remember, my Lords, I am i n the same vessel as yourselves—l call on you—l entreat you—and on my bonded knees I implore you not to reject this Bill.—(Cheering.) Lord WINCHILSEA and the Duke of RICHMOND made a few observations in explanation. Lord LYNDIIURST said that after the speech on this occasion delivered by the Noble and Learned Lord on the Woolsack, probaihly never surpassed by him in point of eloquence, he could not but feel great anxiety in ad dressing their Lordships on this subject, but from the station he occupied, and the situation he formerly had the honour of holding in their Lordships' House, he thought he might be considered as shrinking from time performance of an imperious duty if he were to omit offering himself to their attention on this occasion, and satisfying himself with a select vote against a measure so very momentous. But after the various dis cussions this question at different times had undergone both in this and in the other House, after the consideration of so many nights devoted to it on the present occasion, sinking as he almost was, under personal fatigue, it was not his intention to enter into the details of the question, but to content himself by stating as distinctly and as clearly as his strength would admit the grounds upon which he felt it to be his duty to object to this Bill. The Noble Lord at the head of his Majesty's Government on a former night made an allusion to the opinion which his Majesty was supposed to entertain with respect to this measure. The Noble Lord was incorrect, in point of phrase, in his reference, but the House understood precisely what he meant. The Noble Earl did not mean to convey to the House the notion that his Majesty had approved of, this specific measure, as he (the Noble and Learned Lord) understood, because such a statement would have been of a most unparliamen tary kind ; but the Noble E irl, and those by whom he hail been succeeded in their addresses to the House, intended merely to intimate that his Majesty approved of the con sideration of the great question of Parliamentary Reform. The House could not but recollect what his Majesty had stated in his speech from the throne, which was, that in the adjustment of this question their Lordships would con sider the true principles of the Constitution, the preservation of the great prerogatives of the Crown, the due authority . of both Houses of Parliament, and time rights and liberties I of the people. Here then, (the Noble and Learned Lord) begged to state fully and freely to their Lordships, that r if, in his opinion, after the best consideration he bad been able to give to this question, the measure now . introduced had corresponded with the recommendations conveyed in his Majesty's Speech, he would have given it ! his cordial support ; but it was, after great hesitation, after the most anxious enquiries, and he trusted unin fluenced by any interested motive whatever, that he felt bound to Vose this measure, because it appeared to bhp in the result, not to be consistent with the prin ciples of supporting the prerogatives of the Crown, but calculated to destroy those prerogatives. It was not calculated to correspond with the principles of main taining the authority of their Lordships' House of Parliament, but calculated in its result to unOer., mine and overthrow it—(Hear)—and altos all to ite utterly subversive of the.' rights and liberties of the people. Upon these grounds it was that he should oppose this measure. The great question with regard to . this measure had been entirely evaded in the speech of the Noble and Learned Lord on theWoolsack—the ques . Lion turned on the extent and nature of the measure. He (the Noble and LearrMel Lord) repeated that if the measure brought in by his Majesty's Ministers had corresponded with the advice of his Majesty from the throne, in such case he should have supported it. It was because i the measure went "a great way beyond his Majesty's re commendation, and because it was inconsistent with the terms and spirit of the recommendation, he felt it to be hie duty to oppose it. When he (Lord L.) stated that the question between them turned upon the extent and comprehensiveness of the measure, he was obliged to refer to time speech of his Noble Friend at the hea lof the Government. He (Lord L.) had attended minutely to that speech throughout, and hedid not recollect that the Noble Earl in the course of that speech gave any satisfactory reason whatever fot introducing Reform to this extent. He did not recollect that the Noble Earl in any way pointed out the circumstances likely to result from a measure like the present. Every thing, there. fore turned on the extent of the measure. The Noble Earl, instead of pointing out the nature of this Reform measure, instead of sbewing upon what grounds it was that a Reform to this extent was required, instead of pointing out the consequences likely to result from a measure like this, either advantageously or otherwise, the Noble Earl thought proper to attack the late Administration, of whom he (Lord Lyndhurst) had the honour of forming a part ; the Noble Earl thought proper to make an attack on the Duke who was at the head of that Government, and who was present to defend himself, and the Noble Earl thought proper to make an attack on a Right Hon. Friend of his (Lord L.) who was absent, and had not the means of defending himself; and the Noble Lord thought proper in introducing a mea sure so pregnant with importance to amuse the House by referring, not the third time, but the thousandth time, to the postponement of his Majesty's visit to the city. Fol lowing the Noble Earl, other Noble Lords appeared on the same side; but he (Lord Lyndhurst) could not recol lect that any one of them had given any reason whatever for the adoption of a measure of this kind. He did not recollect that any of those Noble Lords had pointed out the probable circumstances attending the adoption of a measure of this description, upon the extent of which measure its adoption, or non-adop tion, must depend. He (Lord L.) had thought his Noble and Learned Friend on the Woolsack, with his master mind, would have grappled with this view of the subject. He had attended, however, to that Noble and Learned Lord's speech from the commencement to the end, and he had not stated a single word in point of argil 'tient, for the express purpose of satisfying the House that the adoption of a measure of Reform to the extent now proposed was necessary. This was the more re markable, as it must have been obvious to their Lordships throughout that such a measure of Reform as this was not called for, and that the consequences of its adoption would 4e most pernicious. Their Lordships, who objected to the principle of this Bill, objected to the adop tion of so -comprehensive a Reform—a measure which was entirely subversive of the whole constituency under 1 which we lived, and placed a. new constituency in the room of the existing one—a new representative body of an entirely new character. Their Lordships who objected to the measure in this light did not object to Reform altogether, but objected to this particul tr and special measure, upon the grounds and principle which he (the Noble and Learned Lord ) had pointed out. Their Lordships, who objected to this measure, were stigmatised, he (the Noble and Learned Lord) would not say within the walls of that House, though even there they were not treated with any thing more than courtesy, hut they were stigmatised by others as being persons capable of being improperly influenced—capable of acting upon sordid motives. He (the Noble and Learned) did not believe that of those who opposed this measure of Reform on the side of the House on which he stood there were six individuals who had any connection with nomination boroughs. Passing that over, it was desirable that those who were contending against the principle of this measure, and who had been levelled at by the public Press,_ should have at least the oppor tnnity of stating, in their vindication, that if they did err they did not err except under the sanction of the opinions of the Noble Lords on the other side. The battle the opponents of this Bill were novt fighting—the principles which they were now contending, had been advocated and held at different times by the greatest statesmen and the most profound politicians whom this country had ever produced. To those brilliant names which had been mentioned in the course of this debate, many others might be added ; but he passed from the dead to the living. He passed from those who were the opponents of this measure to the authority of those who had brought the Bill into that House. On the first day of opening the last session of Parliament the Noble Earl at the head of the Government made a most brilliant speech. In that speech he stated that he had in early life pressed this great question of Reform with all the warmth—perhaps he ought to have said with all the rashness of youth, and had been inclined to go much further then than he was now. If their Lordships would contrast the measure of Reform now brought into their Lordships' House, with any measure either formerly brought in or formerly supported by the Noble Earl, it would at once be seen to what - an infinite extent this surpassed them all. There was connected with that speech of the Noble Eat l's, at the opening of the last Parliament, this remarkable fact, to which he (the Noble and Learned Lord) begged to draw the attention of the House, that a Noble Baron who then sat near him (Lord Lyndhurst), immediately rose and congratulated the House on the tenure of the Noble Earl's speech. He stated that it gave him great pleasure to find the opinion of the Noble Earl to be what he had stated it to be, and yet, however, when the present Bill came to be laid on their Lordships' table, brought in by that same Noble Earl, that Noble Baron found it to be so inconsistent with the declaration of the Noble Earl that he should decidedly oppose it.— (Cheers from the Opposition side.) He had to appeal, therefore, to the Noble Earl to explain the inconsistency that appeared in this respect. There was another point to which the Noble Lord wished to draw the attention of the House in his speech. He stated that he hoped his .111a jesty's Ministers were maturing some great measure of Re'orm, which might be carried into effect without impairing the C o nstitution.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") lie (the Noble and Learned Lord) believed that in 1810 the Noble Earl recommended a gradual, and temperate, and judicious measure of Reform. In another speech d e li vere d, h e believed, in 1817, by the same Noble Earl, the measure of Reform declared by him to be necessary for the country was a gra dual and temperate Reform. Upon every occasion, ther efore, when the q uestion been introduced to the c onsideration of Parliament, such had were the opine). • es that had been expressed by the Noble Earl at the head of the Government. Under 1 ~e aa r n n d e d a f L te n r rd a 1 ) 1 h t s li d e b c e o e n n s i s d b e l r e a t t o i o g n i v w e h !e l !: g h lith u lee e (s s et t i i m o ce n irNeul ,: b o n w ies i t f aann b t ? i lfu e r i e r L tl o m idsi l l l i o p u s se, ma n d i e s firm persu asion was, false e sn step, io was, that and went one single degree too far on the present occasion, their condition would be irretrievable.—(Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) He therefore could not but feel surptised that the Noble Earl should have brought forward, not a temperate and gradual mea wihnigehbuitt swuarse almost os ß t ef i o n r i ns po , ss b it u a t e a cou m b e i asu le r a e d of to ßefrm thing any o national convulsion.—(Hear, hear, hear.) It was necessary thosewho had t o oppose t hi s measure should fortifythemselves as mu c h as poss ibl e , even y thie u that of those to wh om t h ey stoo d op posed : and with this view he could not but refer to the opinions of the Noble Lord who had brought this Bill to their Lordships' bar. That Noble Lord had been all his life the advocate of Reform. In 1819 one of the roost eloquent speeches that ever was uttered on the subject had been addressed to Parliament by him against those boroughs which were now the subject of attack, and which were supposed to be a blemish in the Constitution, boroughs which it was said ought to he eradicated, not merely by degrees, but in the swe eping manner described and pointed out by the Bill, ' What was the language of that Noble Lord on the occasion referred to ? Ile said that the borough of Old Sarum wa s in existence when some of the great men of the s ,, e ntry framed our Constitution ; that Rutland re turned the same number of Members as York when H a mpden bled for the Constitution.—(Hear s ) Going on, he observed, that the principles upon which the Con stitution of the House of Commons depended were pure and worthy, and should we pursue any system of change in the Constitution of the country, we should be guilty of the fully of tAte story io the history of Aladdin v b e re the servant was deceived by the cry of new lamps fur old ones.—( Hear, hear, from the Opposition.) Such was the strain adopted by the Noble Lord in lBlq to whom he had alluded. But another Noble Viscount opposite, who spoke with much eloquence the other day, s t a ted in a speech s o man l y an d energet i c t h at he could never forget it, that he would nut stay to inquire whether 'folded there was 'too, much or too little of democracy in the Cone e titotior; of our HoOses of Parliament, but he would boldly assert that Parliament ought to do nothing calculated to diminish the influence of that democracy.—(Cheers.) He would advert also to what had been stated by the Noble and Learned Lord now on the Woolsa4. He referred not to the u p u la f n ol ee o L pt;;srre d i tilar e i y a n d tt b m4e stillon u3:s now o it} Yorkshire, nor to the plan whiah he unfolded s.ullbaltte:hnatttlli y a titnhe numeroustNh e oble and Learned ut he repair, notentire t constituency o of n. h l4 refeered to his speech on the first d a y cf the ope n i ng of last Par li ament. H e t h en sa i d m y object is to restore the Const i tut i on to i ts or i g i nal purity—my object i s to R e f orm , no t to c h ange—my object is t alters I would ask him now i f the introduction 'of the Bdl which the d substitutes another for, it, can be reconciled to those decla rations. He had n (Lord L yn dh urst) in a country,padrtcheers.), of no doubt that his Noble and Learn e d F r i end referred speech to that which had been decided by the Cow' mittee of Election that the common law right of r epresentation in the House of Commons, was in inhabitant householders ; but his Noble and Learned Friend must well know that this was subject to qualifica tion, and that it was only where there was no title by charter the common law' right representation was in the inhabitant householders.--(Lowl cheers from the Oppo sition.) The LORD CHANCELLOR—I have no objection to the Noble Lord's making use of that, or any other letter of mine, which be way have obtained by the same means as he has this. A servant slole that letter and sold it to a Newspaper. It contained my opinions at that time, and I have not changed since. It is the Noble Lord who has changed. Lord LYNDHURST said, that he would not have used the letter at all had be been aware of the manner in which it had obtained publication. He did not make use of the letter as an argument of his; but, considering that it contained the Noble and Learned Lord's opinions in his calm moments, he had made use of it to show the change that had lately come over the Noble and Learned Lord's mind. The second reading of the Bill in the Commons, was carried by a majority of 135. The last reading by only a majority of 109. Their Lord ships were bound to treat the Bill with the highest respect, as having come from the House of Commons, but that by no means pledged them to pass it. The question of Parliamentary Reform had been before the House of Commons for the last thirty years, and had al ways been received adversely. And if they were now to look at the majority in the present Parliament, they must also look at how the question had been received by former Parliaments. How had the present majority been obtained? By the last dissolution, when people's minds were excited on this very question by the French revolution. The people were asked by Ministers, "Do you want more power in the State?" Naturally the answer was, that the country was put in flames at the elections that followed that dissolution, the natural consequence was, that the candidates were asked, will you vote for this Bill? And even of er the candidates had been chosen, in many cases a Committee was formed to watch the conduct of the representatives. With all the respect which he had for Ministers, he must say that it was on them that all the responsibility would rest, if the country were disturbed. Their fault it was, and the blame could attach to them alone. His Noble Friend had asked that, if the Bill were rejected, who could be found to carry on public affairs under such circumstances? He must say that although there were in the present Government men of great public cha racter, yet he could not help adverting to their conduct since they came into office, to their bringing forward two measures which had failed, to their bringing forward the present measure, and the manner in which it had been brought forward.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He would•not say that persons were to be found more corn. potent to form an Administration, but as competent as the present. But if he were to state what his wishes were, he would rather that the present Ministers should retain their places, because they were disposed to secure the peace of the country, and more particularly he should wish so, if they would bring forward a more moderate system of Reform.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) The Government of this country consisted of three estates, mutually fitting and adjusting each other ; and they had been so blended as to give a more perfect system of Government than prevailed in any other country. Therefore let them be cautious how they abandoned such a happy state. The object of the Bill was to change not only the system of representation, but also the character of the representatives.—.(Loud cheers from the Opposition.) It was in fact a change in the Constitution of the country, and what se. curity had they that the results would be beneficial? The supporters of the Bill had stated that they hoped it would work well, but that it was impossible to tell until it was put into practice.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) Then would they destroy a system which had been pro ductive of great benefits, and under which the country had prospered, and adopt a new one, which might prove to be injurious—and if it did so it would then be too late to withdraw it. He did not deny that the House of Commons was open to some objections, from the effect of time, but for 200 years the Constitution of it had been the same as at present, and lie would ask, had any case been made out to justify the present Reform Bill.—(Loud cheers.) Was there ever less of interference in elections than at pre sent? Quite the reverse. It was well known that in the time of Henry the Third the Crown nominated all the Members for boroughs throughout the kingdom, and they had another instance of a Privy Council nominating Members. He only adverted to these facts in order to show that the nomination system had been much more extensive than it now was; and was it to be contended that the owners of the Castles of Appleby, Warwick, and others should have nothing to say in the elections for those planes? But look at the state of the House of Commons. He would ask what bad the House of Commons done that they were thus to be cashiered ? and he entreated the House to look to what the country owed to that House. At no time during the existence of that legislative body, were there more intelligence, purity, and independence than there had been for the last 15 years, Adverting to the promises held out by his Majesty's Ministers, the Noble and Learned Lord said, that his Noble Friends entered offioe with strong professions of economy and retrenchment. He would ask what had they done since they had been in office? They found that so much had been previously done by way of economy and retrenchment by their predecessors that they could do nothing mere oon sistently with the established institutions of the ountry.— (Cheers from the Opposition.) It had been said that the military establishment of the country was too large ; bad they reduced it? Instead of finding it too large, his Noble Friends had increased it.--(Cheers from the Opposition.) Then what was there to call for that great change which was the foundation of the Bill now on their Lordships' table ? He and those on his side of the House subscribed to the object of the Bill, which was Reform, but not to the principle of it. The Nob'e Earl (Grey) had stated that if it went into Committee he would not allow the Bill to be substantially altered. What would be the conse quence of that? What would the House of Commons say, it they did alter it? They would then have a free con ference.—(Loud che. rs from the (apiaosition echoed from the Ministers.) He should deplore the consequences of such a course as being tnore likely to promote permanent discord than anything else. The principle of the Bill should be one of enfranchisement; but this was one of disfranchisement, for it would disfranchise a great number of places, and leave 35 Members not disposed of. But of these 35, it •was intended to give five to Scotland and five to Ireland. Surely a more mischievous plot never entered into the mind of man. —(Cheers from the Opposition ) As the case now stood, the representation with regard to Ireland and Scotland was provided for by contract ; but would not Ireland complain that with her seven millions she had only 10 ltlemiiets, while England, with her 12 millions, had 513 ?—(Loud cheers.) The lines of population as proposed by the Bill, were of the most arbitrary nature. No reason or cause lied been assigned for them, and they had been productive of the most crying injustice, while at present the boroughs rested on prescription foonded on reason. What he would ask, had been offered to justify such a departure from a principle of reason and justice? There was to be a general and entire disfranchisement in every part of the empire; and was it not for the Noble Lords oppo site to assign a renson, and to state by what right they divested parties of their property? But they we;e sold that the present rights were to be continued parties who were in existence. If there had t.cn an abuse of time, by whom had it been ccaimitted ? By the existing indi viduals to whom the right of voting was resery4. What wl- i s the proposed substitution ? Why s centers at three and tenpence a week. 'The vog-, worst species of repre sentation that could ruse devised, for the scot and lot voters were alwais the most corrupt. The plan of voting instituted had been already altered thrss) or four times, and therefore he asks,!, what confidence could they have in this Bit) l Another difficulty, and one admitted to be s;-., by his Noble Friends, was that the King i selecting his Officers of State could not be sure o( placing them in parlieasie:At.—(Loud cheers.) Another objection he 44 was that the honourable profes siOrt of whissli ha was a member, could only find its wry into that House, by a course of agitaiiiin.— (Cheers.) From the first view that be took of the Bill, he had endeavoured to consider in what situa tion it wculd place the House of Commons.- 167 Member; were to be taken away ; given to co:4,nties ; 50 to large towns, who cion;ii ;awn such per sons as he had described addition to which there were 35 more taken from the Aristocratical part of oY would see, that the agitators. Then a the kingdom. ss throw n be I' i he n g to rea th te e d rp e a m rl oc o r f a t t l ic e a s l y s s c t a e l m e, i a n u s s- 8 ' c o g f tia t nd he Members for Ireland three - fourths venilti be retu rne d v“.',uld would ;he HVusebe"it of House would constit ute a fierce detnocratical ; 4ssembly. H e w o knew what the present Melee of Commons wa s at this time, and how yew unmanageable even Catholics htohleio, c s together, w ho wo under its present construction, but if that change took place it would be an unmanageable democratic body, too much for the House of Lords, and would endanger the safety of the Crown ; so that, ultimately, whatever eight be' the name of the Government, this country would !levee republic.—(Cheers from the Opposition.) He had to defend the institutions of his country. . He wished for no change, nor for a republic, but he considered republics in general vicious, arbitrary, cruel, and unsteady. He wduld not, - hotvev6r; hazard such a Governmma • the present time as this country was blessed with, for the purpose of accepting such a change. Ho asked what would be the consequence in Ireland. Would the Church in that country stand.—(Cheers. The Protestants there were but few, but their great wealth gave them the balance of power, but would that power stand when the representation was thrown hate the bands of the Catholics. The Noble and Learned Lord contended that the present measure would bring destruc tion on the proposers of it, and after an earnest appeal to the House to do its duty, regardless of the menaces of an infuriated Press, sat down amidst load cheers from his side of the House. Lords TENTERDEN and HOLLAND rose at the same time ; but Lord HOLLAND being loudly called for, the Noble and Learned Lord gave way. Lord HOLLAND said he rose to claim a moment's attention in consequence of the sneers and sarcasm directed against him by a Noble and Learned Lord, because he had ventured to say that he believed the people were sincere in their petitions when they prayed for Reform, and said nothing of the ballot and uni versal outline. If the Noble and Learned Lord derived any advantage from his sneers and sarcasm, in designating him in. nocent and simple—(Order, order.) He spoke to order. , Lord LYNDHURST rose to explain. !,• A crowd of Noble Lords rose on the other side. Lord KENYON spoke to order, and maintained Lord Lynd- ' hurst had a right to speak to order when another Noble Lord • who was speaking to order was himself disorderly. Earl GREY said, that his Noble Friend was not speaking to order; he had not yet spoken on the Bill, and had, therefore, a full right to be heard. Lord HOLLAND then said he was not speaking to order ; but as he was personally alluded to, he threw himself on the mercy of the House, and begged them to hear him for a few moments.—(Hear, hear.) The Noble and Learned Lord had taken occasion to make a remark respecting his having declarta in presenting petitions from the people for Reform, when there was perfect silence as to the ballot, that he believed in their sincerity, and to ask was he so very simple and innocent as to believe this because they had so expressed themselves ? If there be any great wit or advantage in this sarcasm, said his Lord ship, I leave the Noble and Learned Lord all the advantage, But I still confess I am simple enough to believe the people, and I tell him I do so because I am in the habit of speaking .„ what I think myself, and nothing but what I think, and of be lieving that others speak what they think, and nothing but what they think, unless I am so unfortunate as to be persuaded by facts and observations that what one says is not what oue thinks—and that he does not say all that he thinks. lam still simple and foolish, and innocent enough to believe the people of England, and I hope the House will believe them top, and grant the prayer of their petition. Lord LYNDHURST was perfectly sure that he had not al luded to the Noble Lord in anything except the most courteous manner. If he was misunderstood by the Noble Baron, he was sorry for it, and begged to assure him he did not mean him any discourtesy or cdfrrice, Lord TENTBRDEN declared his opposition to a measure of Reform so sweeping as that proposed—and remarked that it ' had been observed the same arguments which were directed ; against this exclusive measure of Reform would equally apply to any other measure of moderate Reform. Now he contended, ' that if the precedent Neese once set, of altering the Constitution, the same arguments urged in favour of the change would apply to measures for utterly destroying all our institutions. He de clared that he paid the greatest deference to the opinions of the middle classes, and entertained the greatest affbction, he might say, for them, as it was from them he sprung. .. The Archbishop of CANTERBURY said—My Lords I would have been glad to have arisen at an earlier hour, and if I had succeeded in carrying my intention into effect, I would have taken the liberty of entering into a full account of the reasons which place me under the painful necessity of opposing a mea sure which has been strongly recommended to us IsY his Ma- - jesty's Ministers, and which has been sent up to us by a majo rity of the other Hougo. But having been disappointed in this wish, and after the splendid display of argument and eloquence which has been made by many Noble Lords on the opposite hefiehes, I should be guilty of injustice to myself and your Lordships were I to treepas long upon you at this late hour.—(Hear, hear,) I shall therefore confine myself to a few words, which I eertainly would not trouble you with, if I did not feel it neeessary to do justice to myself, by briefly giving my o ,Piniell Upon the general subject or Retbrm. And, my Lords, I must say that my sincere attachment to our happy Constitution does not carry me so far as to deny that it has defects and ano malies ; nor am I so, hired in affection for things as they are as to be hostile to all improvement. My Lords, whatever abuses may 'Aye swept into our Constitution by time or vicious prac tices I desire to remedy by *came safe and constitutional mea sure. To Reform such abuses as have crept in is my wish ; and I have the happiness of bellowing that the whole Right Reverend Bench concur in this sentiment. I have howl with great satisfaction the opinions delivered t h h a e v i e r s e p p o p o k e l i n t i e.rk i n i s o I d a p i r o a i e e opposition n t o o t t a h g i a s i B n s i I t l , t ad ll n e l,T h i a: e ' in the course of thi s d e b ate b y several Noble Lords who e ip d l : c o l a f r t ed h e I t i h i l a l t , or rather the general principle of Bothnia, and that they were ready to accede to a measure of gradual, temperate, and safe Reform.—(Hear, hear, hear.) In these sentiments I cordially concur, and I cannot help hoping that a union of men of all Parties, having the sane objects in view, namely, the good of the country, assay take place, and that they may prepare some meass.re so closely guarded as to remove the apprehensions of those who fear for our institutions, and sufficiently extensive to satisfy all moderate le a s, and all friends of the Constitution, who admire ita excellence, and desire to repair its defects and remove its hie:Maims. lam perfectly aware that this may ap poet Chimerical, and I feel that many and great difficulties would impede its completian ; but in proportion to the difficulties would Ise the claim of those persons upon the gratitude of the country, who should at the exponso at' the sacrifices it would require, conduct this enterpeice to a happy conclusion. I have only to add, that if it be your Lordship's pleasure to pass the Bill, I shall most seriously rejoice to find my apprehensiona groundless; and if on the Contrary, your Lordship should deem it expedient to throw the Bill out; and that popular violence—which I do not anticipate--(Hear, hear)--should result from this proceeding, I will cheerfully bear my share of the general calamity--(Cheers) —and I shall have the consolation for the few years, or days, l may have to, live, of reflecting that I have not been actuated by shliSteli motives, but that I opposed the Bill fairly, and in perfect purity of heart, believing it to be mischievous in its tendency and dangerous to the fabric of the Constitution.--(The Rev. Prelate resumed his seat amidst general cries of " Hear.") The Duke of SUSSEX having been personally alluded to, begged to oftbr a few observations in answer to a Noble and iseesened Baron, and a Noble Baron who bad with great courtesy aldressed him. I think (said the Illustrious Duke) that the Noble and Learned Lord, in stating the origin of the other House of Parliament, laid down his position fairly ; but I differ with him in his conclusions, The House of Commons, I think, was raised up by the Crown, as a balance against the power of the Aristocracy ; but the power of the Crown has, for many reasons, become much lets since that peruse • I impute no undue motives to the Noble Lords who oppose this Bill. I certainly have party feeltnes, but those feelings do not prevent me from respecting those who differ from use. But, my Lords, what is the oats of this Bill ? Your Lordships hay, received front the. Besuse of Commons a Bill, which they sub. mit to your, estnsideration. In favour of that Bill numberlee petitiSsea have been presented; a.WI I say, therefore, that the Bill is in conformity with tlm opinions of the people. It ha• been the fashion with same Noble Lords to treat the peoph with disrespect. A gannet agree with the Noble Lords in that sentiment, A know the people better than many of your Lord. ships de s My situation, nay hahtts of life, my connection with m,rsy charitable institutions, and other circumstances on which I do not now wish to enter minutely, give use the means of knowing then. 4am in the habit iof talking with them from the highest to the lowest. I believe they have confidence in me, and that they tell me theist honest sentiments ; and my firm conviction, arising from the strong feeling which I have I heard expressed tin this subject, is, that it is ;absolutely neces sary that this Bittl should be adopted, to meet the improved conditloss c the people. My Lordly I have visited several me chs,shics societies, both in Lonclost and Nottingham, and else where, and I can assure. your Lordships that many of them possess libraries ecasal, to any nobleman's, replete with works calculated to, issstrisct the mind and %cm the heart. Have they not as emad judgment as I ? and if they have, have they not a right to use it ? My Lords, A value nobility ; but education 1 ennobles a man more than any thing else. Increasing in know ledge, and incrcsesitses ie affluence, is it not fitting that the' rights of the people should be extended 2 , Upon this subject 1 regret to, hooompelled to differ front Me Noble and Learned Lord opposite, who has stated that no himself sprung , from the com mon class—a eireunestanee which does that Noble and Learned Lord honour, ‘...4.1a as his character deservedly stands in the country. 'Why, when the people have so greatly increased ha wealth and knowledge, they shook, not have a greater share in the representation, lam a.) a loss to conceive, One part of the opposition to the 13j1}, if I may use an expression not very courteous but tether strong, appesasa to me. to be humbug.— (A laugh) I mean the alleged apprehension that the people of the new this country are disposed, to take a lea( out of the French. Con h bays.n ds "f o f our Certain °l Con stitution. lam sure. they are. too good to do so, They wish Constitution. 'lles - want renovation not innovation. nee: foject than some the ls country constructed gotiato, on t t u h e e • Peers I do not pretend to say, but I say that they hs.ve no right e 0 TO: bC4ss. stare, e t ' h t i o s b Noble Lords, having: up,pretensions to borsugh property ; still, to them. I certainly ha - se le interest in the st however, I pasetcrpate in the odium wader which the Aristo_ cracy labeors, its that respect. Mos Lords, I was exceedingly su.rPSiaed at the comparison tisisteh one Noble Lord made be tween the Peers of Vsaystand and the Nobility of the ancient French regime, is is our duty as the Aristocracy of England, to take ears that the rights of the people are not invaded, and is the same time to guard the rights or the Crown. If, unfortunately, the present Bill should not he carried, I trust , that the people te1.1,1 see that there is much goodwill felt towards i them, and that they will wait with patience until a similar I , =mere, be. carried, whi c h eventually it mast be. To your Lordships I will observe, that if this Bill should sot Paw' some a other Bill. roma som, pass, and it rnay b e w e of a lea favourabh I nature, and brought forward under' Seas adreteg e° th:ts iricyirtvuontle stances. My Lord; I feel thoroughlrmt' i this night s both as I am a Member of the Royal family, end as i • am a Peer of England, is of vital imP"tance. The Noble a n d I have already obse rve d I en. , Learned Lord opposite (for whom , and frosts whom I have received re tertain the greatest resPeeis im stated his apprehension tha t the 1 peated proofs of cotuted7) tit tioand ' Bill would subvert the Cons u of the revolution. My Lords, that I deny, ISSne.pe U se pr i nci- I je. . ~..: *. , _ ..'-• 1i.4 , ,1 , 7 • . - ~. ,-,,,;,., .21, ',. ' _ ____ . . , n whatever for introducing Reform to inhabitant householders ; but his Noble and Learned wduld not, - however; hazard such a Guvernmftt , n oi l e did not recollect that the Nobl e Frieud must well know that this was subject to qualifiea- the present time as th is country was blessed w i t h po i n t e d out the circumstances likely t o tion, and that it was only where there was no title by f or th e purpose of accepting such a c han ge ., charter the common id lawrig L lit representation was in the tsure like the present. Every thing, there. asked what would be the consequence in Ireland. inhabitant householders.—(Loud ers.--( owl cheers from the Opp- be extent of the measure. The Noble Would the Church in that country stand.—(Cheers.) A' pointing out the nature of this sili "*) e , instead of spewing upon what The LORD CHANCELLOR —I have no objection to The Protestants there were but few, but their gre at I t.,..1.1.. ...en .born A. hnlanro nf nnunsr hulk en"..lA at..,...