The Sun. — London, England, 1831-04-22 00:00:00

ught in a BM whatsoever. istry had de n showed their rence between obe), he would use upon Mi tionary Bill— ition, he could ommend it to [ajesty hid not refuse that re rnment should r, although he Id not respect at they would d nut expect. ling for place Hear.) They , indeed, they tax on steam mained, upon laughter, and r--they would sib?e moment. s Mr. Canning y were driven at--and when t, they would Lted the Muse Bill. He wits equenee of the le Noble Lord on of Ministers and spirit. He for the second, total disregard unfortunately if this question by the country tainly not ; but rich could only state of excite lich was then ish excit-ment inlet, the mea at the country, that House.--. Parliament at criminal. He Ily weapon into vernment that the grasp of a might commit aid not resign. Sovereign and the wisdom and ibject. It was to the wihhes of d liimaelf from his vote, upott General. He d it a most un and Ireland at The grounds England ; and sing up the full • sod reason why Scotland and ;he present Ad aissible respect, as cordially as- Ile accordingly Except some toy tittle, there him to give it nt a dissolution . The state of nties--the pea vas no security or security did a wool I not he • excitement of iation-boroughs :intation of Ire ., were they so is as to suppotia t? He could elections which decided by trig ' terford. What . npared with the by the Govern :e hands of the I ? Was it nut (ember for Wa .l of the Union onet would not !ueen's County. t, without the e Lord now re defeated by the • ober ? Where, ble to give free lie counties in old not be need 'ell it, fur he ba the Hon. and —that the elec at the repeal of deed, any other oform.—(Hear, s might nut he ed Member was that they were .casion; but he the Hon. and wer enough to untry. It was be made to the t might ensue. respect to the He had never vote by ballot lat the effect of of this country was opposed to nd as decidedly tuency of Pres ild against the • leprive property lad few fears or mihably should insistency were if the election. ..- ;th of any prae reason be had East Retford; as he had now, He should be 1 for Scotland it town of Ba rnard. He was to al the great Reform of this 'l usfifiable course / ue Session, and I 3t ought nut to n, and to make hile his lion. was impossible what was the laughter.)--If !hate on a ques. w when the de —(Bear, hear.) Gent!cairn ing measure, as afterwards, he, the head of the was ten times ected to the in. vindicate the That at an early in itself a jus. au o pportunity _(lean )—lle o pposite that it ik that experi ie was fraught !ult. lie qual2 ing the littolm . of objection to le furthe r pro-. of the matter► pinion ; b ut Pe are on a m o tion I" his mil' Cf twO lye pi oportioo proportion wa g In made to 010 . . number of Members for Ireland and Scotland, but th , number of those for England ought to be retained.— These—if be concurred in any measure of Reform—thes , would be the grounds on which his concurrence wool.' be based; and these were the grounds on which thc Noble Lord, now at the head of the Governmont, pro posed a Reform in 1800. At that time Mr. Grey wa , of opinion that the number of the Members ought to he !e -duced. and his plan of reduction was this : he proposod to cut off several small boroughs, and in that way to redue.' the number of Members for England and Scotland, and to allot to Ireland 85 Members instead of 100. Thus he proposed to retain the proportion between the menabet, for the three countries, on the , atne basis that had beet, fixed at the time of the Union—a basis determined by their relative wealth and population—(Hear, hear.) — such a change might be desirable—to one more extensive he (Sir R. Peel) certainly should object. He never meant to go into the Reform Bill for the purpose of im proving its details—(Hear, hear)—he was oppose! to the Bill distinctly, decidedly opposed to it--opposed to it be cause it was brought forward at a moment when expecta tion was most excited. if Reform was desirable, it should be made a substantive measure, and be introduced under the existence of less excitement than at the present mo ment. He had, therefore, no wish to improve the details of the Bill, and at the third reading he should most pro bably have been fnund expressing his dissent from the Bill. That the Ministers should give up the Bill on a resolution that, in case of a Reform, the number of Eng lish representatives should not he diminished, was to him a thing the most unaccountable.—(Hear.) If the Go vernment had determined to dissolve the Parliament, he deeply lamented it, en account of the hazard to which he feared they would subject the country. He thought there was no justifiable ground for there coming to such a resolution.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) Because !this question of Parliamentary Reform had been negatived, Government felt it requisite for the proper administration of the affairs of the country to dis solve the Parliament. In his opinion, the measure was not one of such imminent and immediate necessity as to justify them in coming to such a decision. He could, however, well understand the motives for pressing on the measure. It had been brought forward at a time of great excitement—an excitement shared by those who had in some measure created it. Let them look at the language of a publication conspicuous for the talent with which it was conducted, and supposed to represent pretty accu rately the opinions of at least some of his Majesty's Minis ters. Let them read the Edinburgh Review, published in last Autumn, and they would find there a reference to the " beautiful days" of Paris ; and when they had seen this, let them say whether his impression was not correct, that some of the authors of this Bill were sharers in that general excitement which had recently prevailed through out Europe. He fully believed that if time had been given, that re-action, which had already begun in public opinion—(Cheers)—he might say manifestly begun— (Cheers)—would have extended itself over a'l classes, hardly excepting even those who thought they were inte rested in the success of the Bill, as it would confer on them new privileges.—(Hear, hear.) But whether it was so or not, he thought that no Admioistration ought to undervalue the opinions of those who had already so lemnly declared that they could not give their assent to the Bill. The wishes of the people had been talked of. When they talked of the people, they talked as if the people were to be numbered by heads, and they forgot the influence of wealth and education.---(Hear, hear.) It was impossible to deny—looking at the number who had spoken at the various pub ic meetings throughout the country, and look ing at the ability and the disinterestedness they bad dis played—that there was great discordance in public opinion as to the merits of the Reform Bill; and he would assert that no man was entitled to say that this Reform Bill met with that unanimous approbation which the Government had said the introduction of that Bill had occasioned. The Bill was ba-ed upon no principle; but proceeded through out its several enactments on a matter of assumption, seve ral of its enactments being most arbitrary, yet they pre tended that no other could be received in the country with any feeling but that of dissatisfaction. If the Parliament was to be dissolved because this measure could not be car ried, then many measures relating to the internal tranquil lity of the country, and to its foreign relations, would be lost. There was, however, as it seemed to him, no im mediate necessity for dissolving Parliament. What was the pretext of it? That the government were afraid to keep alive the excitement that now existed. They need not fear. It would die of itself.—(Cheers.) It had before.—(Loud cheers.) He had indeed heard com plaints from the opposite side of the House that the people had become indifferent to the subject of Reform, after they had manifested it in a greater manner than at the present moment. Let the events of Paris fade from recollection, and let the People of this country calmly consider the effects of these revolutions in Paris and Brtissels, and he would venture to say that the excitement would die away, and then, at any future period, this country would be in a fitter state to consider of a propo sition for amendment in the representative system ; but, if his Majesty's Government were prepared to advise a dis solution of the Parliament, in what state would they put themselves by giving that advice? From the course the Government had pursued, he did feel a strong confidence that, with regard to Ireland, they would have asked from the Parliament a coercive measure, limited, of course, but still vesting them with more than the powers they now possessed. He had not pressed them to ask for the Insur rection Act, for, after the experience be had bad, he was frilly convinced that nothing but absolute necessity could justify it. He agreed with those who said, that though that measure might sometimes produce the effect of tranquillity, it was yet a most unconstitutional measure ; and wherever sentiments of a pat ticular kind exist among the body of the people, and those sentiments were thought to create danger to the State, the remedy for that danger bad better be entrusted to the usual administration of the laws, than be provided for in such a manner as to consti tute the upper classes the judges of it. Indeed to vest the power of decision and of action, at such a time, in the hands of one portion of the people to be exercised over the rest, so far from diminishing discontent, though it might seem to effect a cure, left a rankling sore behind, and had a tendency to perpetuate the evil. Under such circumstances, he should rather suggest to the Govern or the possibility of malting some provision by which another tribunal could be instituted for the trial _of offenders ; but if the Parliament were now to be dissolved, no such thing could be done. He re joiced that the necessity for these Measures did not seem to exist at present. He knew nothing of the state of Ireland but what he sa w in the public papers, but what he did see convinced him that the state of so ciety in the western parts of Ireland was such as no man • could look at without a feeling of the greatest sorrow. It was to be hoped„however, that the permanent laws of the country, and the powers conferred on the Government by some existing statutes, would be found sufficient, without • its being expedient to add to those powers in any way. If, however, it should be found necessary to have recourse to extraordinary powers, they certainly ought to be effective.:lt appeared to him but a misplaced humanity to let discontent grow to a head, until no authority but a large military force, or the operation of the Insurrection Act, was sufficient to put it down. He, having confi dence that such a measure would have been produced with out going too far, should in that ease have lent his humble aid to them to extinguish the evil. Would not, he would ask, would not the general election add to the previously existing discord? What had taken place inClare? In order to maintain the public peace it was necessary to station a military force in the county. That election had taken place while the present ministry were in office. He was told that there was nothing political in these disorders ihe was not of that opinion ; but if it were true, then the only relief that could be expected was from some change in the relative conditions of landlord and tenant, and Re form could effect no diminution of the evil. Under these circumstances., be was afraid of the destruction of that force by which the public peace had been preserved, and afraid of the circumstance of their being left for six weeks, at least, without the means of •resoeting to any extraordinary remedy in case of disorder. He must say, • that the Ministers who, in such a state of thinge„ advised a'issolution o f P ar li ament , i ncurre d a h eavy respons ibility. „..al that alt?--What would be the immediate effect of the woulddinitiution ? The powers they already possessed he extin gu i s h e d : b y t h at A c t w hi c h ena bl e d the Government to illegal it was pro vided, t h at the power therehycreated should expire at the end of the present session of Parliament. That session disso lution of Parliament, would be deter • ned break out by the dissolution, and by the disso afresahuilehnt, nut only might all the evils of Ireland from making would' tit the powers now possessed by the Go vernmentadditional Powers. On be determined, and they would be pre ventedexpressed intention a fresh application to Parliament for that the dissolution oof7n th t e liese grounds he deprecated the ch had executeda Government. Ile-conceived which hail scarcely passed Parliament so recently assembled so little in the publ:c service— not justifiable.—(H one measure worth recording— wasJournals of that House r ear, hear.) He found on the easons assigned against the disso lution of Parham whichectipast,e. were so well worded, and were so applicable to take the liberty of reediiineeni"2"' ensuring more attention than wa s and wthiatht the vsthe;e9ltcl that ts theseusual were epaidre theto w r e r s i o t ten documents, he would state lutions put on record on the Journals of that House it 1807, by the Noble Lord now at the head of the Govern ment. They were resolutineg entekinning the dissolutior of Parliament.—(Cheers.) H, ealle:1 on tl em to weig: well the sentences of the Noble Lord. The resolution , were moved at the re-as•tembling of Parliament in 1807 They were in these words :—" That. by a lonk; experience of his Majesty's virtues, we well know it to be hi• Majesty's invariabl. wish, that all his prerogativ should be exercised solely for the good of his people." —( Loud cheering on both sides of the House.) —l - 1( had told them low inueh the words of these resolu tions demanded their approval. He would now go on : " That our dutiful attachment to his Majesty's person and Government obliges us, therefore, most humbly to lay in' fore him the manifest misconduct of his Ministers — (Cheers from the Opposition)—in having advised tip dissolution of the late Parliament, iu the midst of its fir, Session, and within a few months after his Majesty h o been pleased to assemble it for the despatch of the urgen• business of the nation. That this measure, advised l a his Majesty's Ministers, at a time when there existed n difference between any of the branches of the Legislature nor any sufficient cause for an appeal to his Majesty', people, was justified by no public necessity or advantage That by the interiuption of all private business then de pending in Parliament, it has been productive of elle, and needless inconvenience and expense, thereby wantonl adding to the heavy burdens which the necessities of th times require. That it has retarded many useful laws I . ,he internal improvement of the kingdom."—(Cheering.; He doubted much whether this maid be truly said, as hi feared that no measures for the internal improvement of the kingdom had ever been introduced ; " and for the en couragement and extension of its agriculture, manufac tures, and commerce. And that it has either suspended or wholly defeated, many most important public measures, and protrac ed much of the most weighty business of Par liament, to a season of the year when its prosecution must b, attended with the greatest public and private inconvenience. And that we feel ourselves bound still further to submit to lii.. Majesty that all these mischiefs are greatly aggravated by the groundless and injurious pretences on which his Majesty's Ministers have publicly rested their evil advises ; pretences, affording no justification for the measure, but calculated only to excite the' most dangerous animosities among his Majesty's faithful subjects at a period when their united efforts were more than ever necessary for the security of the empire, and when to promote the utmost harmony and co-operation amongst them would have been the first object of faithful and provident Ministers."—(Cheers.) These resolutions contained the general areuments on the question of dissolution at such a moment. There were, he repeated, no such circumstances as now called for a dissolution. He admitted the necessity of Reform ; but he again denied that it was an immediate and imminent necessity. He could not refrain from availing himself of this opportunity of pro testing against the contemplated dissolution, and of making his declaration that Ministers, by resorting to it, incurred, perhaps, a more serious responsibility than bad been risked by any previous Government.—(Hear.) Mr. STANLEY had neither intention nor authority t.; enter into the discussion ; he, therefore, only lose to re mark that there was this difference between the conduct of Earl Grey in 1807 and the Right Hon. Baronet upon this occasion. The resolution of 1807 was brought forward when the dissolution of Parliament was not only announced, but had taken place, and when those under whose respon sibility the step had been taken were ready and at liberty to justify it. The dissolution had not yet taken place—it had not been announced, and the lips of the King's ad visers were necessarily sealed.—(Cheers.) Mr. BROWNLOW was not a little surprised that the complaint against the possible exercise of an undoubted prerogative of the Crown should come from the other side of ti.e House, which until now had so stiffly stickled for its privileges.—(No, no.) Unless he were greatly mis taken, such was the effect of what hail been advanced against a dissolution, for although some care wan taken to word their advice as delicately as possible, the object was to deter the,King from resorting to the contemplated ex tremity. He was also astonished that Hon. Members who had opposed the Reform Bill should not be happy to seize the earliest opportunity of resorting to their constituents; for throughout the discussion they had constantly vaunted that they required nothing more than their resistance to that measure to recommend them to the country : how often had the boast been heard—" With your Bill in my hand I will meet those who send me to Parliament."—(hear, hear.) It was difficult consistently to account for this change ; but on, perhaps, the last day of the existence of the present Parliament, it might be convenient to hold language different to that which had been used at a period of less immediate peril. For his part, he (Mr. Brown low) rejoiced that an appeal was about to bat made to the people, and lie trusted that the natives of England would remember, with gratitude, that they owed the Re form Bill, as far as it bad gone, to the representatives of Ireland. He did not deny that Ireland was in a state of ex citement as far as great distress was calculated to produce it, but he did deny that that excitement was even remotely # 'voted with politics, and the movements in the West aro:— only out of the wants of the people. There was now happily an end of all fear of religious warfare—the feelings which produced it were allayed for ever, and the people of Inland regarded the Reform Bill as a measure of civil improvement, calculated to remove the very dis tresses of which they complained—as a sure pledge and guarantee of better Government than they bad experienced for a melancholy series of years. Of this Ministers might rest assured, that the measure would receive in Ireland unanimous approbation.—(Hear.) Mr. NYSE also bore testimony that no political ex citement existed in Ireland, and expressed his conviction that none would be produced by the Reform Bill and the consequent dissolution. The Marquis of Anglesea had done much to satisfy different classes, and to tranquill ze the public mind, and a general election would be followed by none of the evils which the other side were so anxious to predict. The Hon. Member for Waterford had, doubt less, great influence; but the source of it was long-con tinued mis-government. Put an end to the min-govern ment, and the influence would cease as a necessary con sequence. As to the threat of commotion, he had no such fears ; he apprehended no such events as had occur red in France ; for ours was an aristocracy, not of name only, but an aristocracy that lived with the people and depended upon the people's love. Mr. O'CONNELL—Had he risen before the Hon. Baronet (Sir 11. Peel) he should have confined himself to a few sentences ; having risen after him. it would not be necessary for him much to extend his observations. Re ference had been made to the state of the county of Clare, and to the troops it had been thought necessary to quarter in it during the election ; but that experiment of itself established that political excitement always denominated illegal outrage ; the soldiers hail not been called upon to protect a voter in a single instance. The causes of dis turbance were very different, and if he were anxious for a dissolution, it was because it would give to the people of Ireland a legitimate hope, which would prevent all resort to lawless violence. Grant Reform, and every chance of political commotion was removed. It - was highly edifying now to listen to the Right Hun. Gentleman while he talked so philosophicagy about the Insurrection Act and its unconstitutional vices ; but it was singular that these enlightened views should never have occurred to him dur ing the twenty-three years that he had been in office.— (Hear, hear.) It was very well for the opponents of the Reform Bill to exclaim, " Do not dissolve ;" but he (Mr. O'Connell) called upon Government to dismiss the pre sent Parliament for the very reason that was urged against it. A gongs delusion was attempted when it waa said that the extinction of Fatten boroughs was necessarily to be translated into a diminution of the number of English Bill R. meant Vyyy toao Members. This w a s a l mos t as b are f ace d as t h e en d eavour o tl f ia a t n tl i i i e o ß n' ef li or a i r n on was Baronet (Sir i n ‘ c y r e ea b s e e l iePvieip) e t r o y s:111 amid that upon that ground he had voted against it. In the pre sent enlightened age, a.nd with sttch a talented Press, it would not be easy to persuade the people of England to be lieve that the Reform Bill ought to be rejected for the sake of protecting them from the encroachmentsof the Roman Catholic priesthood. Some Hon. Members had g ur ed that the dissolution ought to be postponed ; b ut if it were postponed, what pledge of security would Ministers give the people of England that they meant hereafter again se. riously to bring forward the question of Reform—(Mw, cheering.) He hoped that Minister's would at once advise the King (and God bless liiml) to appeal 'to the deliberate good Sense of the people, and to call tipon them to aid in the abolition of that corrupt system which had already de graded Great Britain among the nations of Europe. It the Poles had been conquered instead of being victorious; if the barbarous hordes of Russia, having scoured the north of Europe, even threatened to war upon: England front the opposite coast of France, still hostilitis ought not ; a dissoktion of to be commenced withoa r ; 'Parliament. h-t in Ireland' such would be the wisest comae, Suae he was t 4 te rmi nate with and the elections would proceed and . the moat perfect tranquillity. There was no principle afloat in Ireland that would not aid the Reform Bill, and f he trusted th.t the fifty-nine Members who had voted . ben increased of the Reform Bill, would, by the new elelttoisoen,namenxt.raesasecialnto eighty.—( Hear, hear.) Grattan, h w i ord chancellor `and nized—Ponaonby, who had been a. • as Mister of the Curran, who had di-A1 in obscurity, brit the measure Roll's—led the pithdic'ihniil' id trerand; I of Reform was muted in the Irish ci s ou eand 1797. The people were drive n to des p air, of C in ommons the result vas the rebellion of 1798. The people of Eoglanr' sow knew their friends from their enemies, and a ipportunity ought to be given them of confiding in th, .ne and rejecting the other. Let Reform be refused aid he must b a hold man who could prophecy the re :ult. It might lie well for the Hon. Baronet to talk (1 -he condition of Belgium, and to endeavour to tarnish th. :lory of the three beautiful days of Paris : hut th e , very still beautiful, when a despotic Monarch was jostle liastised for having dared to trample on the charter e , -fights of his faithful subjects.—(Hear, hear.)—Th, French people did not submit in despicable shivery; thrs hurled from the throne the man who had insulted them Should similar circumstances ever occur iii England, h hoped that the people of England would imitate an ex• Imph so glorious. Whi!e the present Illustrious Hous, lacupied the Throne, and above all, while the presery klonarcli ruled these kingdoms, there was no danger such a calamity; but suppose an attempt should be mad• to convert the representative system of England into on huge rotten borough—suppose the Government too measures to reduce her in this respect to the state of Scot. hod, would the people submit? Ought they to submit:: —(Much cheering.) How many vile jobs had bee: screened—how much dirty huckstering had been en couraged—how many individuals, without worth, hat! been rewarded under the old corrupt system, which mus. ere long he destroyed? Ministers deserved immortal glory for the majestic effort they hal made ; and he was sur. 'hat they would be rewarde Iby a grateful people.— (Hear.) They would dissolve Parliament, saying to thr nation, " This is a question between us and the borough mongers, and the point for you to decide is, whether, is future, the Government of this country shall be supported upon antiquated and disgraceful corruptions or upon thr confidence and affection of its inhabitants."—(o.ntinued cheering.) Lord NORREYS expressed his regret that Ministers had not brought forward a more moderate plan of Refarm, which nobody could have opposed, and most would have been glad to support. An appeal to the people, and a change of Government, were both evils; but if be were to return to his constituents, he should meet them with ' perfect consciousness of having faithfully disaliarged the trust reposed in him. Dr. LUSHINGTON had no doubt, that if Ministers advised the dissolution of Parliament they would have suf ficient grounds for the. course they recommended : if any doubt were entertained upon the point, the proper time for discussing it was, after Parliament had re-assembled. The Right Hon. Baronet had referred to a resolution moved by the present First Lord of the Treasury twenty four years ago, but he had omitted to notice the very cif ferent circumstances under which it was brought forward to those which existed at the present moment. The torch of religious discord had then been lighted, and no language could be too strong to reprobate such a proceed ing. The Hon. Baronet had also talked of delay, but this great question, having been once :,rnached, could not now be postponed without producing disappointment and even incurring danger. He had likewise spoken of ex citement, and had asserted that when the three glorious d Jys of Paris were forgotten, the public mind would re cover its tranquillity. If the Right Hon. Baronet waited until the l,lorious achievements of those three days were no longer remembered by the people of England, be would have to delay until the must splendid events of history were buried in oblivion.—( Hear, hear.) The victories of Louis XIV. and the triumphs of Buor.aparte were, com paratively. trifling achievemt nts. He verily believed that there never was a time when the people of England were better prepared to exercise a sound and deliberate judgment in the choice of representatives; and during the last six months only, a great change had been visible in the opinions entertained within the House ; so man now ventured to deny the necessity of such Reform. Even the Hon. Baronet (Sir H. Vyvyan) was in favour . of - some change in the representation, although he had, as a last effort, endeavoured to fan the dying embers of reli gious discord, and to light the beacon of " No Popery," which had burnt with such fury in 1807. lie (Dr. Luslinigton) trusted that in these more enlightened days the people would not be so easily duped and misled. They bad approved of Catholic Emancipation—(No)—they had rejoiced in the abolition of the Test Acts—(No) —and the designing would discover that they had no power to work upon ancient prejudices. The Right Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) had adverted to the state of Ireland, as if there Were even now a danger of rebellion ; but dissolution, when the object of it was to carry the n easure of Reform, would rather tend to produce tranquillity than disturb ance. Time had shown the impossibility of conducting public affairs effectively and prosperously upon the old system of corruption; and nothing could now give satis faction but representatives chosen by the people, and res ponsible to the people. To establish corruption by sepa rate instances was as unnecessary as it was invidious, or he would point to a borough which, every seven years, had regularly produced a Commissioner of the Customs. It the King's Ministers advised his Majesty to dissolve Par liament, he should consider it a measure denoting courage —(Cheers)--courage befitting so good a cause —(Counter cheers)—and which could only be inspired like that of Parlia►nentary Reform. It was because there was no chance of carrying the Bill u ithout dissolution, that dis solution would be resorted to—bestause the measure was _of vital importance--and because the people universally desired it. On all sides of the House it was now adinitt, d in the words of Mr. Pitt, that without Reforin no honest man could could continue Minister of the country. Mr. S. G. PRICE said, that as the Members of that House had been told that they were incapable of discharg ing their duty to the nation, he would remark that it was rather too hard and ungrateful for the gentlemen opposite to tell the House that they had placed them in their pre sent places, that it was constituted .n such a manner as to render it impossible for an honest Minister to carry on the business of the country. There were one or two obser vations which be then desired to make, as it was, perhaps, and probably he was then addressing the House for the last time.—(Loud cheers ) He thanked gentlemen oppo site for the eagerness which they manifested to get rid of one who had never been connected with any party, and had never supported any interest but that of the errantry at large.—(Hear.) When he heard that cheer, so civilly and significantly given, he was reminded that a short time ago he was greeted with a very different cheer, when lie presented himse:f on the hustings before his constituents. He was reminded that he had been honoured with fi ve different votes of thanks from one thousand of his eonsti tuents, for his conduct in that House,—(Hear.) If he were now to retire from public life, he would carry with him a gratifying remembrance as well of the cheer which he had received from gentlemen opposite, as of that very different one which be had' lately received from his honest. and independent constituents.—(Cheers.) lie had heard much said that evening respecting France and the three beautiful and glorious day} of July—(Hear)—since which, however, ke would remind the House, France has been a prey to anarchy, with a weak Government and a distracted people. He would ask gentlemen who were so fond of attending to that country, what was the opinion of M. Msuguin, the leader of the republican party, tts tq the discontent of the people? Would he not say that their hatre4 to the Government was occasioned In its being friendly to peace and to England ?—(Cries of " No, no !" and " Yes, yes !") If he might quote a classical sen tence upon that subject, he should say, that the " trophies of Waterloo would not allow those men to sleep."—(Cheers and cries of " No.") M. Mauguin hr 44 himself ai:initted that the movement of July had been provoked, not so much by the ordonnances as by the hatred of the 1 e.tple to the house of Bourbon. Those commotions were the working of a conspiracy, which bad been on foot for years, and em braced all the disaffected of every country in Europe.-- (Hear, hear.) The present would not be the first instance of the dissolution of the British Parliament beiiause it had refused to sacrifice the constitution.—(Loud cheers.) So far as he personally Was concerned, it was utterly in different to him whether the dis'solution should tril,4 or nof. The duties of Parlie s nieravry 'attendance were in convenient to a man in weak health. But he should feel disgraced if, with the threat of dissolution held over his head, he did not stand forward to give (as Mr. Pitt hail said) " his mite of service to that side of the Constitution which needed it." Serious and awful was the situation in which, the country was now placed.---(hear and a laug h.) Whoever chou;el look back over the pages of history, and then carefully examine the crisis which the country had new reached, and the probable effects of the Bill, he must say with him— _ " Venit summa dies, et inebrutabile tempos." (Cheer..) " We stand in the eleventh hour of the Con stitution."—(Cheers and laughter.) He would tell 1 10 "., Gentlemen opposite, in sober sadness.—( Cries of " oh. oh, and order.) Yes; they were on the brink of revolution. (Cheers.) Hr did not thi.7lk shat any change of dyna st ) wouldtfot `revuiutfOn com p arable to that which would bt produced by the proposed Reform, destroying as it w ool , : the balance of the several powers of the State.—(Chee rs.) ha all former changes, which left that balance undisturbed, i t wrong were done or disorders were produced, hand' which had created the evil lmti 7 ; lways Oeen able to effect remstly, like thi. , idbired ?Tear': the alchymist, whicr could heal the wounds' , it hnd it flitted., Experience hal' proved thatpopular power, when once granted, never li the history of man'eould be controrticd by any other an thority,—(eheers.) He bad heard niveh declamation , which the übject was to show that the close boroughs welt the most disgraceful parts of the Contitutiun ; and he hat heart other declarations, velich lie could hardly believs• ' would : have fallen from men who had studied the Consti tution.—(Hear, hear.) It had been often said, in the course of that debate, that time was the greatest innovator but he would ask what changes had been effected in tlo Constitution of this country since the revolution, to whirl the Reform measure bore an analogy? Had not thos , changes at least been slow and gradual in their operation Had not the power of that House been constantly, thou2l tradually, increasing ? The influence of the commercia' dlasscs had increased as the wealth and commerce of th, country increased. And would any man deny, that i❑ commercial country the democratic spirit always increase , with the growth of commerce, while the agricultural— hat is, the ar istocratical—lnfluence as constantly declines? —(Cheers.) Every country in the world which in aro age became greatly commercial became also democratical because the persons of whom that class was composed, it, all countries, never have any regard for hereditary honout s and are naturally jealous of hereditary power. As the y ise from obscurity to the influence which necessarily at taches to wealth, they endeavour to overthrow that pow,r from which they are excluded. He should, therefore, re mind the Hon. Gentlemen opposite, before they attempted the Reform which they proposed, to make this one Reforte mere—to cure man of all his weakness ; and when they 'hould have made him an angel, they might then pass that Bille—(Cheers and laughter.) It had been said that this House was not predominant in the State ; but he would ask, was not its power over the Crown rendered ir resistible by its controul over the supplies ? Was not the House of Lords a body possessed of less wealth, less info • ence, and less dominion than the Commons? He was sorry not to see in his place an Hon. Gentleman who had said that there was in the other House a more popular feel ing than in that? ,Was it wise then to render the House more independent still, when it was already so much more powerful than the other? When the great Roman histo rian and philosopher contemplated such a Constitution as England had since that time acquired, he thought it im possible that such should ever be found, in consequence of the natural disposition of one class to aggrandise itself at the expence of the other. Mr. Hume, however, said, that England had the good fortune practically to contradict the great philosopher, because the House of Lords had a pre ponderating influence over the House of Commons. Could that influence then be preserved without the boroughs, which had been made, in the course of that discussion, the subject of so touch idle jest.—(oh, oh; and a laugh.)— by men who never loved the Constitution.—(Cheers and laughter.) He wished that influence to be preserved, in order to prevent the preponderance, by which the mace upon the table would be converted into an Imperial sceptre. --(Cheers from both sides of the House.) He would see as much reason in the disfranchisement of a large town, on account of its extent and population, as in the disfran chisement of a small borough, because its extent was not great, nor its population numerous, when it had honestly and usefully exercised its franchise.—(Cheers.) He wished every class of the people to b• represented in that House, and he did not wish the safety of all classes to be endangered by the undue preponderance of one. Should the scheme of Reform be ever carried into effect, that House would be filled by men of immense wealth on the one hand, and by the panders of popular caprice on the other.—(Cheers on all sides.) But it would be thence forth impossible for any member of the middle cliss (of which he, Mr. Price, was one) to obtain a place in that House, unless he were trained in the school of subser viency to the popular will ; and, in his mind, subserviency to large bodies of people was the worst habit in which a statesman or legislator could be reared. He considered the Ministerial Bill a presage of the last day of that Consti tution to which every Liver of liberty in any country in the world turned with admiration—(Cheers)—though disgraced as it was said to be by those rotten boroughs.— (Cheers.) A Noble Lord opposite had said that the Crown and the Aristocracy would be cherished and pro tected by a popular Ilouse of Commons. Was not the Noble Lord aware that a popular assembly must always be under the controul of the most violent of its members ? History had furnished many proofs that a representative assembly purely popular and a monarchy could not exist together.—(Cheers.) From the assembling of a popular Parliament in the reign of Charles the First, to the death of that King, the Gown vainly struggled to use its powerless prerogative, and to maintain its existence. At first the Parliament proceeded cautiously, but at length bolder men succeeded, and the usurpation of Cromwell was the result.—(Cheers ) He would, therefore, cau tion the I - lon. Gentlemen opposite, that they too would be followed by bolder men, who would lead to similar re sults.—(Great cheering.) 44 Facilis descensus Averni: Noctes atque dies patet atri janua Ditis : Sed revocare gradual, superasque evadere ad auras, Hoc opus, Inc labor est." It was because he wished to preserve that order to which the Nob:e Lord opposite belonged, that he deprecated this measure of his Noble Friend, if he might use that appel lation in recollection of former friendship at Cambridge. The time might come when the Noble Lord would remem ber, that a member of the middle class had. in his rt.- gard for the Aristocracy of the country, suggested that this Crom well had found himself una ble to controul a popular roainnd ,iir.iarscafdouunpdoninethifieoCaooinosutsi.tuti,ornhaheaedvbeielenthme audrebiintralr6ys4C, Par liament. Look to Spain, in which, as long as a popular constituted Cortes existed, it was every thing, and t h e King nothing. They. who would build up a new Consti eniaxarcittie°pG7clennerai i and that to make the people the base would be to place Crown tutkn. was sh''u t l l d i e b b e a a s r e i I n ' p ni on i n i d v h t i F e e h w t o h r e ds C o o f n ß st u i t r u k t e io ' n that tli rested, e the pyramid upon its aprx.--(Clieers.) As that might be the last speech which he should have an opportunity of making in that House, he would neat his caution to the Noble Lord, got to give thu fieumeraey a preponderance, w h ere by the Monarchy would be changed into a demo- crude royale, the Crown king first placed on the head of • a representative Sovereign, controuled by the more suc cessful of the struggling factions, which should divide the, people, until daetslpeuntgiothotiimcnive.il.„....w(acrhwee7,l:)l place a military They ought at leela'isetftuopeocnotammiie the evils, and not pass at once to a re volution greater than any change of dyn sty had ever effected in this country.—(The Hamgoaniiin.isiGti,ewnhiteilieenhbleattnih,s:apitnid.oeostsivoennd amidst great cheering Irons all sides.) ete s aca a lltd : tir ; iinii:*l; interirieddling with long-settled inter- Sir TH OMAS A d, C h L s A t INligDht,sawital,B directed. t i e t:vot H in e g th ag o a o i g n i s it t the oiv;lre ; :e: proposed:gi sru second iail,niac b,e. i r is t t i 9o o f n thtal o T f the Members of that House, a Obvious expediency. He, to he disturbed, component:, he e v o h n icla ly r o e u g g r l:t tted ne o v n e e r oeutonf,:t:mhpLteeyed by his Majesty's circumstance by therefore, e g n r tT l ie n ;y ls c o o f ri:i i r P rer in the the resolution of the Gal representing any person who voted for it :Is an which it was attended—that was, that it gave an openingto all Refiirrn.-olear.) Even if the reolntion Gallant General had been carried igto effect, and cigveroment, the principle of Reform would aill'haVe been secure ; but he differed o l a ia li d in b g ee f n or tl: i e lo u ß tm il tst th w e an n t h o o. f i c e o Ai ns i t i d L er a l d op uo ln . ~ 0 c „ 3O f ro m those who supported disfranchisement for It c : own sake, nor could he let pass that opportunity of de, supporters would force it upon the 11 , :)rio r i nd the country, before there was any ai ent and o n importance, thatit,.o;,l a ii nd he c ,m olp t lexi t t i ing Lke that time for consideration which a measure of sctc'ila,jarningn:li'm:t:liseitYriete Bill. g fu n l i l tu c d o e nv mantled. He certainly voted for Refotm, brit he itid so dangerous tde- to push Reform bseeill - • •• .., , vary moderate limits indet-d. Brouzlit tip, as & had been, political life, at the feet of one of the roost elos - - k uent men who had ever adorned that Ho . 0.. hie Ile c),121,d never • fail to ieceive, as the chief • glpq . i . hip ecgdget aeon the subject of Reforin, the 1 3 SC::: thmea that entineivi ir , 4ll Pg\lar cc g w; - ;ielA tie heard from the lips of everence the Constitution of your fathers, a n d if 1 , - ;" b e e ver attempt to alter or amend it, let that alteratio - ri u you !emmenced by no rash innovat ing hand, lest incur the loss of that I .:•Actisiog which it ought to be your constant ei.,tl.;:-ti,vour to pre serve uninjur e d." — H sentiments ---11,,e4 he ,''‘'''':...., koav , ) . '. Those were the 'ever held in v e n era ti o n, and from which he' v could, undr no circumstances, be induced to depart. Not that he was otherwise than a Refortne;., for the present times, e feared, deaRI , A some change. What did they findul ' 1i in our , iov; the 'Jist two or three years? In the mind s of the most sober men th e r e h a d b ee n during that period a ' would not growms dbt, whether, sooner or later, it become necessary to enter into the vestion of Reform. The events of the l a t e genera ) election could not but be fr es h in tlie , recollection a Iltm. Members; for his • part, he w ou ld l c without dissatisfaction upon the cours e which h e himself " pursued upon that occasion, because he could with perfect r. truth say, that he made no compromise of feeling or o f period to whieliPhit.neaTlie. But when he renierobill the in connection with he . t ‘ det . l, be erl - ' 1 7:10i but remember, , nterf e r y j ., ,, poi i ti , 1 foe,' ~..et, that Men not accustom d to to—lnen Of the most sober modes of thinking, When extreme of asked wh a t s h ou ld be done tr,•. j - irtivzot the Reform, -replied ,i sot; Cc. Jiii j '- --" are." lie would , 'statement s apd . whece you observati on on car tint :Ftlltux up tl4t statement by any i g'i O 4 tg what had occurred in both Parliament Houses of a since they h a l assem bl e d, further clan this, th at n°tiling had occurred during the whole period of their :hatkitting, which did not most distinctly pr,ovv a change had taken place in the f.Filt:it of the times. Ailinitting that lie n i., . - 1 -hs sheil Ise istiert why he hesitated 'n conot Hug at once all that Reformers demanded, h• would re p ly, that he was a young Reformer, and, therefor• naturally cautious, and susceptible of alarm, averse from treat and rapid change. With these feelings, how was 1, brought to regard the present Bill—a Bill so entirely on expected, not looked for by any class in the cemmunity— a Bill the least in the world calculate Ito effect that gradual temperate, and judicious Reform, by which hr, and thus: who thought with him, were to be converted ; however, b. rejoiced that he had had an opportunity of delivering hi :entiments upon the occasion of the second rending, were i oily for the sake of proving his sincerity. He should nos , come to a subject which supplied, as he conceived, jus 4 round of complaint—of complaint against his Majesty' Ministers, for the situation in which they placed the int], pendent Members of that House. It was unreasonable i, my set of men to come down to that House with a mea ore so complicated, and give the House only six weeks consider of its details—a measure demanding such nicet. of arrangement, instead of six weeks, to he considered, fo six months. It was really too hard upon those who de dared for the principle of the measure, to he called on t support its details at the short notice of six weeks—it wa dealing with them too stringently to say, when they hesi tated respecting some of its provisions, that the Govern anent would have the Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing be the Bill. It had not unfrequently been the practice of ar Administration to stake their existence upon the fate of • a inde measure. That might not perhaps be qui'e so con venient in a Reformed Parliament. The present Ad►ni nistration, however, had staked the fate of the roeasui , upon the result of the question raised by the motion of th Gallant General the Member for Liverpool, while, in point of fact, it meant their own fate.—(Loud cheers.) The• told the House that they would go out unless they had th, Bill, the whole Bill, and nothing but the Bill. Nothing in his mind, could be more unreasonable than to object t the Bill merely on the ground of a proposed change being made to the extent of preventing a reduction in the Men. bets of that House originally contemplated. That, he really thought, had nothing to do with the principle cf the mete sure ; yet, the moment it was adopted by the House, Govern 'Dent came down and declared that the whole character of the measure was changed,and that they would appeal to the people. He confessed he could not look upon such a state o: things otherwise than with regret. There was nu independent Member in that House who was not interested in seeing a strong Government, for he really believed that most of the difficulties with which the country had to conten4 arose from the want of a strong Government ; and h. hoped that a reformed Parliament, whenever they had one, would confer upon the country that blessing, though Iv could scarcely venture to anticipate such a result. H begged to call the attention of the House to a reinaik made by the Attorney-General in the course of the discussions on the Reform Bill. He asked, " Had there ever be' ii any great principle without compromise or without sacrifice ?" That might be perfectly true—he believe d that no Cabinet had ever been formed without sacrifices ; but when the present Cabinet was formed, lie thougl.t they ought to have come down to that House, and am , cahlv entered into a discussion of the question of Reform. In his opinion the Government ought to have been content to take in the way of Reform such conces sions as a majority of that House was disposed to give them, and not make matters of detail a point of bonout. The mere concession of the principle . of Reform would have been hailed by the refoimers as a viotory ? and such changes might afterwards be introduced as the course of events rendered necessary. He voted for the second lead ing of the Bill on the principle of conceding some change; but surely to have voted for the proposition of the Gallant General ought not to be imputed to any gentleman as pro reeding from a wish to defeat the Bill. The Hon. Baronet concluded by expressing his full persuasion that when the present delirium had time to subside, he was sure that a much more sober measure of Reform would be matured, He had always avowed himself a moderate reformer ; and if those were the last words which he abould have an op portunity of uttering in th it House, he would say that he did not repent having always adhered to that declaration. Sir JOHN JOHNSTONE addressed the House for a few minutes ; but conversation among the Members was so general, and conducted in a tone so elevated, that not a sentence which fell from the Hon. Baronet was audible in the gallery. FVLEft said, that he voted against the motion of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Liverpool, l ecause he did not wish the measure should go into the Committee in any degree shackled—not that he went the whole length of the Bill. As to his voting for the second reading, he did so as well from his favourable feeling& towards the principle of Reform, as from an eanest desire at the least to see the rotten and nomination boroughs di , franchised. The Hon. :Member concluded by declaring, that although it was a favourite argument of the opponents c,l the Reform Bill that it must produce revolution, in his opinion their continued and violent resistance . to the wishes of the people were much more likely to bring about that catastrophe. When the lion. Member sat down there was a loud and genoral cry for - Mr. A. BARING, who commenced b) observing, that as the House was likely to be indulged with no further discussions on this most important subject, be was anxious to say a very few words ; and the more so, as the Mem bers were about to be sent to their constituents, under cir cumstances which required that their conduct should he fully understood. He might, perhaps, subject himself to the ridicule of some of the gentlemen on the Ministerial side of the House, when he avowed now that he had at all times been a moderate Reformer. He had been at all times willing io give, and had at all times voted for givins a anare in the representation to those large and populous towns which had in the progress of tirno and by the in-• crease of trade and manufactures, grown up in this country, and he had been willing tn. Carisent to such a degree of disfranchisement of tLe decayed and corrupt boroughs as might be required to give effect to that change. He had, he repeated, been at all times a friend to the improvement of the representation, but he had at the stnne time always maintained that they could commit no greater or mote fatal error than to render that House the perfect organ of the popular will, end to make its Members, a'though avowedly At liberty to exercise freedom of opinion, yet so much the image acting under the controul of those who sent them to that House, that they would Le liable the next morning to receive a notice to quit such as that which had just been served on his Hon. Friend the Mem ber for Southwark,,-Okar, hear, and a laugh.) He would tell that House and the country, that they would bitterly rue the day when its Members were thus converted into the mere tools of popular opinion. --(Hear, hear.) The question of Reform was to be considered iu two dif ferent points. The first was to be considered with refer ence to the proportions to he preserved between the three estates of the Constittation, and the second with respect to the different interests which that House was intended to, retr;esetiti He maintained that the people of this vountrif were not as much from wisdom as front eltaat,* and eirl cumstances placed, by the blessing of Providence, in a situation in every respect the twat "oalculated to secure the integrity of those kl A reg estates, and to secure the preservas tion of thox i t s.,lp4rate interests.—(Hear, hear.) if, how ever he was t Id that the three estates could stand on their sole and separate strengths, independent of each other, he denied it most positively.—.(Hear, hear, hear.) Every page of their history proved, that although nomi nally equal, thoe three estates were closely blended in their powet.o , and he was confident, that if the House of Cona mons ever became the pure and unalloyed organ of the people —that llouse of Lords, which now held its head so high, and which had acted such an illiktrions part in the pre servation u{ the libertie.,a of this country—which had, in truth, laid the grounds o$ al the freedom they at present enjoyed —that House of Lords would sink into canes before the giant power of the daily-increasing influ ence of the Ilouse which emanated, cloactly from the people. They would, it was tree, have three nominal equal ett.ites ; but it Mould be the contest of the giattt and the dwr,r; Sheoretieally of the same power, hist 7. 3 }1 y poss.;,ssing the relative strength of such a ditTesenc e• an d 1 th e Monarch would not rule, but the Hoiaaie of Common s; and the Government would Litteeri.o not only a democracy, but a democracy the moikt perfect that ever existed in the An Honourable Baronet Walntained, in reierenee to that subject, that the Crown wcaild always possess the veto on all the Acts el - 4e Commons. He de tried the force of that VgAsitent, The power of the Crown, in suealr, mattyrs was twminal. Theoretically the King might possess such a power, but what was it in practice ? He did not know what the people might, in time, be brought to bear ; but he contended th4t the veto was, at the present, a mere illusiou„ . &opposing, for in stance, that the Lords wery driven to such a pass, that thgirass was either extended or considered of little consequence did any one suppose that the could re fuse his assent to a measure which w* . a 'iokeed ov hitn by a purely popular House of cr,m,rtkrese.a.?-,-.(Hear, hear.) The ,King i f this cotm.,tz,k wer4,1;1,, in effect, possess less power `than the President o( tike States of America.—(Cheers.) 1 He ratified manner. stvhlAeri treaty a illustrated (i,iwbere i t bi h yc i s t ;: ;,; r: d t b the President between America and 1114.. cc,. t su b ri e t c ry o , ut a i t c r i d i aavgne;yeeSd and e i nate. It was rscessari, however, to pass a Bib through the ceslaVe, and on its being sent down to the . Low lious, they debated on it for twenty-one days, and the opposition huvin 4 called for further papers., they succeed ed in carrying the motion by a tarty niajerity. A message was, of course, sent kg tI '%,;food. the papers; and what din ‘ t a t. . the House Kipp se was th e answer of the g"fient?' .Vashington, be it recollected, no trifling frienil of taltrty • ind free institutions---(Hear)— w b v , thet the House 'Jai I tithing to do with the papers —that their co Ittnts wer nothing to them—that the power was with h m to mad e be t testy, and that they should hav e no p a pe rs 'room hit .i• ilar was n aa h:.ri, .le. part icleat were the result? t lt,t o y 1 ,e Cllr.going) bilotll like to see the Minitttr orroid eivise the King of this country to retort. !inch an a nswer o a demand of the Bi i'ish W.'s' of C"molona.—(t ' , beer s .) In theory, he repeated, the King .night have time! , rive, o f •efusing Lis assent to the demands of that hous e; twit if 'itch a reply had been made, or such it !evilest re to e quite hear.) s"2lisfileVd,ha a t ad that House, I e believed there was net a man i i it . who vou'd not have cried rut egaitot it as m gross e tertote of relogative.—(Hear, hear.) They had been tole; That the Reforms Rill wits to restore the Constitution to iteertginal rarity; but none of those Who said so comieso.eoded tot elf them at what reel , d that existed.—(Hoer, betr.) They did not mention the time. They colthi not place Veit; amino Domini in the recite period wh< 0 twat per - Ft:te e m exitted.—(Hear, hear.) They had now been for tree:anis of two hundred tears under the winking of tio e pri,sent Isnot, and those who advocated the pr/ sent !Measure Were bound to point out those instances of tmppr e m ssion, o t _ eoverninent, and destruction of national property, of which such a period must produce tottn;terless examples, before they went into that wide field of Consritufien making, into which they were now disposed to lead the House. Sonic persons, to be sore, who were fond of theories, declared that the eew Constitution was most beautiful, and anticipated from it the greatest benefits; but lie confessed he should prefer before they tried that its advocates would slow how they suffered under the old one. It had been, he admitted, bar.died about in ell ante-- 6 , AR; that the Members of that House took time niece) , out of the pockets of the people, and wesited :h e s e t t :t ome , o f the nation on their friends and dependents ; now, he should wish to know the eentiemen of ilea Hiorta 0 e,,, n o t should like those whim m mole p ie the y t l ra t ctices. lle dill not mean to s i a j t e y s i ' s s:u: n el e e old sinecures of twenty years' atanding• and not tot worn out, in the possession 01 Member, of that House; but he defied any one to name a. Place other than tho se h e t ole mitted which was enjoy e d by any of time Members of that House, and fur which he did not perform sufficient duty. With the exception of the Great Olcicers of State (not half eimough paid), and some of the Oflic ra of the Am my and Navy, whose emolumenta no man grad, t ed, ha celled on those persons to name a single individual who had of late years received a sinecure allies, or who was receiving pay without efficient service. —(Hear, hear.) If they could not name any such, then he would say they had not required the force of it regenerate) Home of Commons to carry into tffect all plans of economy and r,trenciament.— (Cheers.) There hail been upwaids et •14,110 utibsic ott. Ikea re,duc,d or retrenched in the caorse rf a few short years..—(Hear, hear.) H e hapornul to here been Chair man of a Committee which tut on Puidie Salariet, and he believed he might say three was ram Otto: allovee•I to exist notwhich did he m n Ciefftlll:antni-lato't.feeet)olo-(rfri and e ci serf duty;tlacl) their constituents, there was not a ielai'e in the kingdom in which they would not hear it thrown at the Members of that House, in tome way or m ther, that they sup ported useless places and an extrava4ont expenditure, to the injury of their coostifin n's and the destruction of their own character. 0: all the Leeithour e a in the world, be would say, nevertheless, that . ..net M this country was the hest; and of all the Vile and dirty jobs that ever were conceived or executed, that of the Government of deuntertieuea O'tS rime vilest seal the worst.—(01w10•) HC Leto-1116 that be challenged those who accused the House of mean practices to lay their finger on th e individual who wa s gu ilty of th em , or on the to-loons who rec e iv e d hope/ Te r f a v o urs. No. one could say that thoao who served the Govet oment in the hi g h er offices of State did so for time money it breught thtm—. (Hear)—for no one could hold such an office, even hie a year, without being the poorer f or the pcsae st i on o f i n lie admitted there had been abus es of it t. loess deectipti on , but ally since diaia, t is h h e it t; g o , m u in a i t t i t l io h n e tim,feitilett:.etti he mi e ht c l ia ll atere the war th e y h a d t m .„ production of a si ng l e ease of kind w hich w er e th en numerous and nototious. IT.p to the end of the late war, the public accounts were Itept in such a ntaminer, that none but a few of the clerks of time public Offices could uuderstund them, and they very imperfectly. He remembered, indeed, that the Member for MittilksL..x (Mr. Hume) o r on the Ministetial aide of the House, and v: as silent On time smito. inet of those abuse, and extravagaveiem, for the exposure of which he has since become celebriited. feud wby was he so ? Because the nature of the exoctimitture and the public accounts, and the war itself rendered such inquiries almost hopeless ; hut, since the cominetwe ment of the peace, so zealous has beta the inquiry, and so rigid the economy practised in every I , foot:it of the public expenditure, and the accounts of every branch of the service are stated SO plainly and perspicuously, that he de fied any man to point out the instance in which public money was corruptly misapplied.—(Hear.) The lien. Baronet, the Member for the county of Devon (Sir T. Acland), had that night explain d the reason of his con duct on the Refornt Bill, in u manner so manly, straittlit forward, and honourable, that he (Mr. litemg) very touch mistook the nature aml character of Englishmen, it, after such an explanation, he could be ill received by imiS coo stituentto That Hon. Barmier. had corm pl e n oe i of the coucee pursued towards the framers of toe Itelertn Bill, and be (Mr. Baring) must agree wish that no i-h muse of Commons had ever hi re been treated so nemeotattete;,y by the Ministers of the Crown.—(Clit;:ers.) A measure of the greatest—the must vitt! inmpm,rtr.nc % , to evert - cl.asa in the country—one on which theme were, of course, anti very naturally, a great variety of opinions —exciting the surprise, by its provisions, oteven the most tilna-returament, was thrown tin the table of the House by the Covet etueot. They threw the Bill on the table—a 13111 of such compli cated detailt, and involving such ext'nsive iroereeta; but it was not fur the consideration or examination of that House.—(Cheers.) No. They were not to teueh a wont of it.—(Hear.) They (the Ministers) were aft et itdont e They could make no mistakes —(Cheers.) Toere teas the Bill. That House, a deliberative atsembly t w ee ne t to d e _ liberate on that which of all others concerned them most nearly. They were to take the Bill as it was presented to thetn......to take it as they found it—and if they and 1 not like it, why then they were ordered to go about 'their bo sineas.—(Loud and coutiotted cheering.) Ho challenged any man to produce any case, or lily time in which. a House of Conunona had been presented with such a propo sition, and treated in Kiehl a menner fear daring to exer cise its constitutional privilege tit ea:aminetion and inquiry ioto the merits of its principles audits cletails.—((;oceret.) Speaking of the Bill itself, he should like to he two how the Crown was to find a place for its officers in that House ? He might• be told through popular representation. But supposing that the Crown found it neecteamy to fight a battle with popular prejudive. What would be the (moose quenee? Anti supposing that the Crown is to have no power to oppose the prejudices and the impulses of the third estate, and that the most tickle of the three—of what use was the Crown ?—(Cheers.) If, !however, it be ion nded that the Crown should have syrvarna t i support its interests, how were they to get into that Howe ; and when iu, how were they to retain their seats ? He was not aware of any clause in the 1!;e1 wi jell gave the King's servants an ear-officio power. to sit in thet i;ialte, as in France, either \vith or willout a vote; fool hoer, thtu, was the King's cosiness to be conducted ?—( Hear.) They would have thre e who had taken an oath to their Sove r4n to keep his commands and auiport his interests, looking, not to the fulfilment of their pledge or to the elms charge of th e i r d uty , b ut to t h e opinioo of the people and to totat probable consequences of th e ir actions on tic feel ings of o their constituents at the n e e; elecon.—(lleat.) The effect of such a state of thiega might be coati) fore seen, although those who talk themcticmlty, bet wildly, on such matters, would lead them to he:liey e that the popular voice wou'd always give way or be pettedly in todsont with justice on all urgent acid trying occasions. it Was scarely possible to believe that men coon be tetioust who :olvanced such arguments. Why, act the treat bleeders and follies of the Governtnent of this country were com mitted at the sour, of popular mlt rumor. To go no tar ther back, he would rneution the Convention 01' Cintra as an evidence of popular ful:y and demsain. 'lien there was more recently the religious qucttion wiila re. spect to Ireland, cu which the popeier opiomon was de cidedly expresaed.—(hear, ke tr.) Ha toigi.t meotion as a third the West India question, on totnela there prevails so ranch of error and misappreheitsitnt—(Hear)-eamid List, though not least, he might mention by way of thusteation, and without meaning the al..ighte.it ()Luce to his Learned. Friend, the Attornoy,•cr,earral, the• case of art Illustrious Client of his, whill - had h, en wholly sutured and sup ported hg ttotaular opinion.—(Cimemoto)—lt teas the force of thio public opittion and its cm...esp.:no:tit taimeoets, moo, }restlessness, and fickleness that i r e ilatiog) duttt.d lll !from the experiment of, the Government. At time per-e m : eatatt moment that Il hail just power ettottali tel tedale , rL . Well and to a c t ca uti ous ly, imitlependeitt timei,:retw,..; voice; but not power enouttch to resitc , and it was this union—..this perfection of („AL pop ,e .o of action, and yet of sympathy °tiered them, .lilt he preferrett to that w hi c i ' n w ;Z e we „o„„ t e f te e etoo doubty.l mach wheelie., , d eve w d uce themanythirig iXt4er varrnuent--(4 laugh ) --cuoi p