The Sun. — London, England, 1861-06-14 00:00:00

MPE --- HOUSE OF LORDS.—(YESTERDAY.) The LORD CHANCELLOR took his seat on the woolsack at five o'clock. ROMAN CATHOLIC PAUPERS. Lord BROUGHAM presented a petition from the Roman Catholic paupers of St. John's wood, complaining of defective religious instruction. RIAL PARLIAMENT. Fffi cers ! of the late East India f Company's army, on its ama l gamation with the Queen ' s forces ; whether it was intended that medical officers who received an increase of rank by the warrant of January, 1860, simi lar to that granted to officers of the Queen's army by the warrant of October, 1858, should also receive the same in crease of pay in proportion as when granted to medical officers in the royal army; and were the senior medical officers of her Majesty's Indian service to be promoted to the rank of Principal Inspector General, Inspector General of Hospitals, and Deputy Inspectors General of Hospitals, as heretofore, when vacancies occur, or were these appoint ments in future to be filled by the medical officers of her Majesty's royal army ? Sir C. WOOD said he was sorry that he could not give any satisfactory information on this subject, as the matter rested with the Council of India and the Secretary for War. THE EAST INDIA BILLS. In reply to Colonel SYKES, Sir C. WOOD said he hoped to be able to proceed with the second reading of these bills this evening. HER MAJESTY'S STEAMER JACKALL. Mr. CAIRD asked the Secretary of the Admiralty whether it was true that a fisherman had been killed, and another seriously injured in Argyleshire, in consequence of shots fired from her Majesty's steamer Jackall, while at sea, and also who was responsible for such a proceeding. The LORD ADVOCATE said that the accounts re ceived on this subject were conflicting, and the matter would be judicially investigated. THE GOVERNOR OF LEBANON. In reply to Sir J. FERGUSSON, Lord J. RUSSELL said that it had been agreed that there should be a Christian Governor appointed for the Lebanon, but some difference of opinion prevailing amongst the Commissioners as to whether he should be a native, it was agreed that there should be no limit in re ference to that point. THE HIGHWAYS BILL AND THE ELECTION LAW AMENDMENT BILL. In reply to Mr. BARROW and Mr. D. GRIFFITH, Sir G. C. LEWIS said if he could proceed with the first of these bills by going into committee not later than 11 o'clock to-night he would do so, tut With reference to the other bill he would not bring it on to-night. WORKHOUSE AND DISTRICT SCHOOLS. On the motion of Mr. HENLEY, a number of returns on this subject were ordered. EAST INDIA LOAN BILL. On the motion for going into committee on this bill, various exceptions were taken to its provisions by Mr. HADFIELD and Sir H. WILLOUGHBY. Mr. AYRSON defended the bill, but considered it was inconvenient to mix up the subject of Indian finance in a manner like the present. Sir C. WOOD said that he concurred with the last speaker, but the course he pursued was unavoidable. He quoted some of the statements of Mr. Laing in his financial statement to show that he (Sir C. Wood) bad not drawn too flattering an account of the financial position of India. He placed greater reliance on this statement, which had been endorsed by all the members of the India Council, than the report on which hon. members relied for information. The house then went into committee, Mr. MASSEY in the chair, when the several clauses having passed through, the house resumed. EAST INDIA COUNCIL BILL. On the question being put, that this bill be read a second time, Mr. VANSITTART said the bill was a very important one, and it appeared to him that the object of the bill was to multiply the councils, which were already too many. He would not, however, enter into details on that occasion, as he hoped to have an opportunity later in the evening of again addressing the house on the Civil Service Bill. He did not quite understand the nature of these councils, but he thought them open to a variety of objections. Re thought that the bill had been hastily and crudely prepared, and he regretted that the right hon. baronet should have allowed three-fourths of the session to pass away before he intro duced measures of such importance. They ought not now to be hurried on with such breathless haste ; and, looking at the amount of business which had yet to be gone through during the remaining six weeks of the session—the distri bution of seats, the highways, the Galway contract, the artistic copyrights, the county surveyors, and last, though not least, the committee of supply as yet almost untouched —he thought that it would have been more prudent for the right hon. gentleman to have postponed those bills till next session, and if any motion were made to that effect, he would gladly second it. Mr. W. E. FORSTER said he should like to knew whether the proceedings in council in Calcutta would be public or otherwise. At present that council was a little Parliament, regulated by the Governor-General, and its proceedings were conducted much the same as the process in that house. Under section 19 of this bill the power to make regulations for these councils was continued to the Governor-General, and he should like to know what kind of regulations would be made. Some persons disapproved of the manner in which those councils had hitherto been conducted, and he wished to know whether the proceed ings were to be secret or public, and if public, whether the publication would be made daily. (Hear.) In the despatch of Lord Canning of Jan. 15, he alluded to the disadvantages of the mode of publicity hitherto adopted, and recommended that the proceedings in the Legislative Councils of the north western provinces and the Punjaub should be conducted, not in the form of a Parliamentary debate, but as proceedings in a commission, and that the proceedings should be published under the direction of the Government. But his lordship did not say whether they should be published daily or other wise. This was not a question of mere detail, but a great question of principle as to whether the legislative action of these councils should or should not be carried on under the influence of public opinion. It was said that the Govern ment of India was a despotism, and must be so. No doubt this was the case; but it should be an enlightened despotism. He was delighted therefore to find that European residents, and to some extent natives, were to be admitted to these councils; but unless their proceedings were reported daily public opinion could not react upon them. As an illustration of the advantages arising from the immediate publication of the debates in these councils he referred to the case of Mr. Wilson's Income Tax Bill, which was felt as a great hard ship by the mercantile community—who were required to estimate their business for three years—owing to the great fluctuation of Indian buslztess. Their case was considered a hard one ; but when Mr. Willson was able to express the necessity of the measure, and the equality of its incidence, it was received with satisfaction by the residents through out India. The tobacco tax proposed by Mr. Wilson was another illustration of the advantage of publicity, as it enabled him to discover that it pressed far more harshly upon the natives than he had thought it would, and this induced him to drop it; whereas but for publicity it might have come into operation, and Mr. Wilson would only have discovered how obnoxious it was when he witnessed the passive resistance of the natives. Subject to the general supervision of the Governor •General, the governors of provinces were to make regulations for their provincial councils, and Lord Canning had said they would be conducted as at present. Now, if they gave these local councils the advantage of publicity, and thus secured the assistance of public opinion in support of them, and still left the supreme council at Calcutta secret, they would not find such a machinery work at all, (Hear.) He was sorry to find that these local councils were to be debarred from dealing with the land tax. (Sir C. Wood said that was a misprint.) This tax prevented the growth of cotton, although our manufacturers were now looking earnestly to India for that article. Mr. LAYARD thought they ought not to be asked to discuss three measures of such importance in the course of a single evening. These bills would affect our rule in India to an extent which few imagined. He did not rise for the purpose of opposing these bills. He admitted that the Go vernment had shown a strong desire to deal with the ques tion in a large and liberal spirit, and had made great con , ca sals, if he mi g ht so ca ll them, at any rate great changes, which deserved and would command the approbation of those who took an interest in Indian questions. This bill weyosuteldraimefp;czent state of things in India, and make the whichwhich he had l a sug he an Tit by council far more effective, and png for the employment of the natives wished to se e . N o d ou b t the legislat i ve council established some was not a consultative, oeyeara ago was a total failure. It oftearesentative, or a legislative council. The Governor aisuldreceived their advice but was not bound to act upon it, and not. It was therefore not a consultative council. not a represen wasybody but a few tative council, for it did not reprelenitt p independent officials in India ; it did not represent thean as was seen in the population, the natives of India, or tcheaaitndrnasses of of which did not Englishmen established in India for th e commerce or of agriculture. The members were defin tchieent casein t o h f e i m r knowledgeadras, the representative r t e h s e e n c t o a u t i n v t e r y, represent his province on the subject of the income tax, for if he had and had properly placed them before the council Sir C. Trevelyan would not have taken the steps he did to give them publicity. He thought that such councils as these in the Presidencies, and subsequently in the north west provinces and the Punjaub would be attended with a good effect, as these councils would be enabled to deal satis factorily with local matters with which they were familiar. But the Bengal civil servant might know well the local cus toms and yet be entirely ignorant of the laws of Madras, or of any other province; and what was suitable for Bengal, might he entirely unsuitable for other parts of India. Every body now admitted that the income tax worked ill, and would have to be repealed, The bill now before the house was a good one, for it gave to the north-west provinces and Punjaub an interest in self-government, and enabled them to legislate for themselves. This institution of legislative councils was a step of great i m p or t ance t owar d s th e ulti mate division of that country into distinct Governments,for Which the time was not yet perhaps fully come. These froa councils, moreover, wou ld re l ease th e G overnor- G eneral many of those arduous duties with which he was at eme p resent r. ov e er e burdened. At p resen t th e b us i ness of the Go v Gn al was enormous, almostdetail came before him, a n d this led to Lord every Canningbeing described as dilatory. By deal witgrbeilalt this bill he would be relieved from details, and have only to an n committeed c i t hd u e e n s s t eh i t o o n r s. d As regarded the adthission of n..atiives the far m enough— (hear, hear)—and as as amendment, " That of additional members COAZI,CI4 PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Oswestry, Ellesmere, and Whilchroach Railway, North-Eastern Railway (Castleton and Grosmont Branch), and Thames Haven Dock bills were read a second time. Nl'Mahon's Estates, Frosterley and Stanhope Railway, Uxbridge and Rickmansworth Railway, Birmingham Canal Navigation, Blyth and Tyne Railway, Limerick and Foynes Railway, and Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway LNew Lines) bills were read a third time. WESTMINSTER IMPROVEMENTS BILL. Lord LIFFORD said, in reference to this bill, suck un usual facts had come io light that he felt it his duty to occupy their attention for a few minutes. In the year 1845 a commission had been established for the purpose of super intending the improvements in Westminster. The com missioners worked well for some time, but a change ulti mately took place, and a great many debts and liabilities were incurred to an enormous amount. In the years, from 1552 to 1854, the law expenses alone amounted to £36,000. The noble lord then alluded in detail to the proceedings of the commissioners, to whose misconduct he attributed all the want of success that had attended the subject of West minster improvements. When the property was sold off for which the present bill was required, the sum estimated to be realized would be just sufficient to pay off the mort gages, but not a farthing would be left for the bondholders. He wished it to go forth that those gentlemen (as we un derstood) would be paid. Lord REDESDALE said the Westminster Commission was a most extraordinary transaction, and did require the interference of the legislature to settle it. The present bill was referred to a select committee, who had endeavoured to remedy the difficulty as far as they could. The bill was then read a third time and passed. ADMIRAL ELLIOTT. The Earl of HARDWICKE called the attention of their lordships to the allusions that had been ma d e to a debate is the other house to the visit of Admiral Elliott to the French dockyards. He exonerated him from the implied charge that he had wrongfully published information relating to the French dockyards which hehad obtained during his visit. He had told the noble duke at the head of the Admiralty what he did see, and he had also told Sir J. Pakington and other private friends, but there the matter ended, as far as Admiral Elliott was concerned. The Duke of NEWCASTLE regretted that the noble lord had not postponed bringing forward the subject until the noble lord at the head of the Admiral t y was in his place. No charge had been made reflecting on the honour of the gallant officer by his noble friend, he merely impugned his discretion, but nothing further; as far as the statement made by the noble earl that Admiral Elliott had not pub lished the results of his visit, he must say that though he did not write a pamphlet about them he took the most effectual way of providing they should be made the matter of discussion in the other house. After a few remarks from the Earl of BARDWICXE, the subject dropped. THE CHARGES AGAINST CHIEF JUSTICE MONAHAN. Lord CHELMSFORD, referring to what had already taken place in reference to this matter, said the Earl of Leitrim had done him the honour to consult him in regard to it, and he told him that no charge but one of the gravest kind could be brought forward against one of the judges of the land. He had since considered the subject, and under all the circumstances of the case, the conclusion he came to was that it was not desirable to have the question further discussed. He would therefore request his noble friend to withdraw his notice, as to proceed with it could not be at tended with any beneficial results. The Earl of LEITRIM considered he had done no more than his duty in stating what he had done with reference to Chief Justice Monahan, but would willingly comply with the request of his noble and learned friend, and withdraw the motion. BANKRUPTCY AND INSOLVENCY BILL. The report on this bill was brought up, and after some conversation between the Lord Chancellor, Lord Overstone, and Lord Brougham, in reference to the relative duties of the official and trade assignees, the bill was ordered to be reprinted. WILLS AND PERSONALTY OF BRITISH SUBJECTS ABROAD BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. IRISH CONVICT SYSTEM. In reply to the Earl of DONOUGHMORE, The Duke of NEWCASTLE explained that, according to the rules of the Irish convict system, a convict trans ported for life was, after ten years of his conviction, libe rated on a ticket-of-leave, unless he had, during his deten tion, been guilty of any bad conduct. The rules might require revision, but what he had stated accounted for the liberation of Gardener, who had certainly been removed at the instance of Government from Brokestown, and was now in Manchester under the surveillance of the police. THE CUNARD CONTRACT. On the motion of the Marquis of NORMANBY, a re turn was ordered of the number of times the Cunard steamers failed to perform their contract, the amount of fines incurred, and the amount of them levied. Their lordships then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS—YESTERDAY. The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the Sowerby Bridge Gas Bill and the Tyne Improvement Bill were agreed to. The Sneyd's Branch Railway Bill, and the Thorne Moor Drainage, &c., Bill, with amendments, were considered and ordered for third reading. The following bills were read a third time and passed : Bonelli's Electric Telegraph Company, Charing-cross Railway (City Terminus), Dewsbury and Batley Gas, Great Western Railway, Hereford, Hay, and Brecon Rail way, Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway, Mersey Docks and Harbour, and Victoria Station and Pimlico Railway. PETITIONS. Several petitions were presented in favour of an alteration in the Irish Poor-law, for providing better means of reli gions education for Roman Catholic children in workhouses, for the restoration of the Galway subsidy, for opening rail way communication in India, &c. CANADA GRAND TRUNK RAILWAY. Lord J. MANNERS moved an address for copy or ex tracts of correspondence between the War Department and the Canadian Government respecting the transfer and sale of land at Sarnia, for the use of the Grand Trunk Railway of Canada.—Ordered. MERCHANT SHIPPING ACTS. Sir 11. STRACEY asked the Secretary of the Board of Trade it ho would name a day when he would introduce hishill to amend the Shipping Acts ? He understood from .the right hon, gen tl eman t h at he would bring in the bill this week tuents, with whom he had compromised himself. Mr. M. GIBSON said that he was very anxious to bring forward this bill, blithe could not command public business, and therefore he could not Ray on what day he would intro duce the bill, or whether he would bring it forward at all this session. But in a few days he 'would be able to give the hon. baronet an answer. MAIL STEAM PACKET COMPANIES, Mr. GREGORY asked the Secretary to the Admiralty. the number and date of the different breaches of contract committed by the Cunard, .Peninsular an d Oriental, and West India Companies during the first two years of their service, and the number of penalties imposed ; a n. d, he also i asked the Secretary to the Treasuryn how many instances such penalties were remitted by the Treasury? Col. FRENCH said that before that question was answered he wished to ask wky returns for which he had moved, and which had been ordered, relative to the subject had not been produced ? gt Mr. PEEL, in the absence of Lord C. Pas h the orders referred to were being prepared, b tell when they would be laid on the table e e ' could eeid [ha not t ) With reference to the o th er ques ti on , owin of time that had elap se d f rom th e ti me t o which he had to o(.f the . length of t o the house. refer, there was some difficulty in tracing out the informa tion required. Taking the C unar d C ompany, in the fi rs t instance, which had been in existence since 1840, he found that during the whole time they carried the Government mails they had incurred no penalty, and therefore had not asked for any indulgence on the part of the Government, but had carried the mails a ith undeviating regularity. The Peninsular and Oriental Company had been equally regular. There was only one instance of that com pany having failed in executing their contract, and that was with respect to th e communication between Malta and the lonian Islands in 1841, and a fine of £l,OOO was im posed and enforced. 'With regard to the West Indian Mail Packet Company, they should have three voyages in 1841 according to their contracts, but in consequence of some delay in the completion of their vessels they were granted another month to commence their operations. As far as the conveyance of mails from this country by the company was concerned, there was only one other failure, and that was a delay of four days in leaving Falmouth, for which they had been fined £3,500, which had been paid. He referred to the evidence of Captain Chapple to show that out of 180 mails which that company had carried from this country, they had been most regularly conveyed, and he thought in the case in question they had been unjustly fined. With regard to inter-colonial communication, they were fined in one instance £B,OOO for a failure of contract, which the Government considered was produced by their not having sufficient vessels, but on their repre sentations this penalty was remitted. In another instance, in the same department of their service, they had failed to fulfil their contract, and they were fined £2,715. He be lieved that this was a correct statement. MEDICAL OFFICERS IN THE LATE EAST INDIA COMPANY. Mr. BLAKE asked the Secretary of State . for India if he had any objection to state what arrangements had ieU made with regard to the position of the medical LONDON, PRIDAY EVENING, JUNE 14, 1861. gamete the high courts, it was most desirable that the Go vernment should offer such facilities to the class of persons we required as would induce them to go out to India. Mr. V. SCULLY said that if they were to keep India in their grasp, this was the time when they should hold the reins in their own hands, having regard to the fact that they were watched by the Emperor of the French, who was pre paring his advances and approaches to India. Sir H. VERNEY regretted that, with regard to this and the other India bills, there was not laid before the house the opinions of the members of the council. It was most im portant that those opinions should be produced, and he trusted the house would insist on their production. Mr. DUNLOP, who spoke in a very low tone of voice, said it was now essential to establish a tribunal for differ ences that might arise between the representatives of Go vernment and the possessors of native rights. Colonel TORRENS considered it would be insulting to India to appoint judges from barristers of only five years' standing. Colonel SYKES considered it would be unjust to place a barrister of five years' standing, and possibly only thirty years of age, over all officers of another class who had per haps held office for a quarter of a century. As far as the natives of India were concerned they were much more likely to be well instructed than barristers of five years' standing. There were 150 millions of people in India who were under the Mahommedan and Hindoo laws, and it was essential that those who administered justice should be acquainted with these codes, and also with the language of the natives. In the native courts the decisions were such that there were fewer appeals than from the European courts. Sir C. WOOD repeated several of the explanations he had given on the introduction of the bill, and said the courts in India would each make regulations for itself with regard to those who should practice in them. The judges of Madras had expressed an opinion in favour of amalgamation. There was a large mass of evidence on the subject generally of the bill in the report of the commissioners appointed in 1851. The whole bill had been considered by the members of the council, whose suggestions were disposed of in the usual way. As to the qualifications which had been ob • jetted to, he had adopted those which at present existed without alteration. The bill was then read a second time. EAST INDIA (CIVIL SERVICE) BILL. On the motion that the bill be read a second time, Mr. VANSITTART objected to the bill on the ground that the legality of the appointments referred to in this bill had been sufficiently established by previous Acts of Parlia ment. The civil service of India was now thrown widely open to the public, and hny person, provided he was of the requisite age, might present himself at the India Office and claim to be examined for a nomination to that service. This was a state of things very different from that which existed in the civil service at home, and which it was now proposed to establish for India, and the result of which would be to place the patronage of all the appointments in the hands of the Government of the day. This bill, if passed, would, he said, be as unpopular with the natives as with the members of the civil service themselves, and al ready the natives complained very strongly that the per sons sent out to India differed very greatly in character and morale from those which were sent out in former times. He thought that the right hon. baronet had not dealt fairly with that glorious civil service, by whose untiring energy and cordial co-operation with our military forces that mag nificent empire had been won and governed —a service which has existed since 1765—which has been exalted by its de voted chief, Lord Clive, which has received the thanks of the Sovereign, and of both houses of Parliament, and which has received the approval of every viceroy from Lord Wel. lesley to the present governor Lord Canning. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LIDDELL contended that every hon. gentleman who attended in the house that night was animated by a sincere desire to promote the interests of India, and that it was unfair and unjust to insinuate the contrary. When the affairs of India had been apparently reduced to a state of hopeless embarrassment, Mr. Wilson went out to assist with his experience, and the result of that appointment had been eminently successful. If, then, there was no reason to re gret the infusion of fresh blood in Indian affairs hitherto, there was every reason to hope that the occasional introduc tion of new minds into the civil service would benefit it. That service should be recruited both from natives and Europeans—and this opening up of posts of honour and emolument would produce a most invaluable effect upon native exertion, and would do more to establish for Eng land a secure footing in India than any other measure which could be adopted. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LAYARD thought his hon. friend the member for Windsor (Mr. Vansittart) had showed unnecessary alarm when he talked of this bill sapping and destroying the civil service. If there were any danger of that being the case, he should be the very last person to support the bill. The civil service of India had produced some of the highest names in the history of the country, and natives never had better friends than they had found in the civil service of India. But that service was altogether in a different position from what it was some time ago. Then it was undoubtedly a close service, but now the appointments were competitive, and open to all the world. Such being the case, he thought such an alteration as was proposed by the bill might with advantage be made, but as it now stood he feared that it. would be a very dangerous measure. His confidence in the Secretary of State did not go so far as that of the hon. gen tleman opposite; and if they were rightly informed, two of the most important measures of the Secretary of State—the imposition of the income tax and the amalgamation of the armies—had been opposed almost unanimously in council. The right hon. gentleman could dismiss his council if he pleased, and he was not likely to be bound much by their opinion. It was announced that all appointments, which were formerly open exclusively to Europeans, were now open to natives, and the medical service was especially pointed out. But what was the fact? Hindoos, Parsees, and others, had come to this country, had educated them selves, and taken a high position in their studies for these medical appointments, and now they were told that the Secretary of State had changed his mind, and they must fall back upon their own resources. (Hear, hear.) This was another illustration of how much could be depended upon promises, unless they had something definite in a bill; and, therefore, unless the conditions of residence for seven years in India and a certain knowledge of the lan guage were provided for in the measure, he should be dis posed to oppose its progress. But he hoped that in this respect the right hon. gentleman would give way to the unanimous opinion of the house. With regard to British settlers, he would be glad to see men duly qualified holding the positions in India to which they were entitled from knowledge of the country and of its habits. Such appoint ments had been made, and the object of this bill was to legalise them. As regarded this class of persons, he thought it essential that they should have that knowledge of the country which could only be acquired by long residence, and he thought seven years was a very reasonable period to require. As regarded the natives, the question was more difficult. He thought they ought to open civil service ap pointments to natives the same as to Europeans, but there was the difficulty of the expense of coming over to this coun try for the purpose of passing an examination. To remedy this he should propose one of two things—either that the Government should send young men over to the colleges here, and pay their expenses to the time of examination, or that there should be a board of examination in India, to which young natives could apply who had prepared them selves to compete for civil service appointments. There was at present scarcely a position in India of which the pay was above £BOO a year which could be obtained by natives, and if natives received the highest education it was absurd to hold from them the offices which their attainments qualified them for. The Brahmins of India had risen to the highest rank amongst their countrymen ; they had shown great in telligence and great learning ; and he was happy to see that by this bill an opportunity would be given of entering the civil service of the Government. But at the same time, un less such terms as he had mentioned were introduced, he should be unwilling that the measure should pass, because it would open a door that would interfere seriously with geed government in India, and wculd have the effect, as it had been said, of undermining and destroying the civil service. (Hear, hear.) Lord STANLEY said there were two points upon which the house appeared to have come, not, indeed, to an unani fmeeoluins,gbouft still t h o o u a s v e e very p g e e o n r e e r d a t , o c o h n e c ltuh that ion o t nt.h the T p h t t e n o g t e io n l e e r o a f l the bill was sound, but that the details would require con siderable attention. He stated when the bill was brought in that its principle he entirely approved, but the more he had been enabled to consider the matter, and the more he had been able to gather the opinion of those interested in and informed upon Indian affairs, the more was he persuaded that the two conditions alluded to ought to be imposed, and not in the form of regulations, liable to be altered from time to time, but .by the bill itself. That l w im ho ita h t a i d onof thesewhich ad w m a s o s f i o t i a h s e i g r n t e o a ttehset civilim p importance t w o a those re sided seven years in India, and to that he was inclined to hope the right hon. gentleman would offer no objection. But as to the other requirement, the test of knowledge of the language, he could well understand the hesitation of the right hon. gentleman, seeing that appointments might be made to districts where no knowledge of the language was required. But, if they were to take the choice of two opinions, he thought the possibility of excluding men from the service otherwise qualified would be a less evil than the absence of any security in the bill. For the appointments in reference to the collection of the revenue and other depart ments, he thought there should be a proviso to this effect, " that the same test as to knowledge of languages should be required from those who sought to be admitted to employ ment under the provisions of this act as was required from candidates for other offices." If that were introduced he could not see that any practical inconvenience would arise to the service, and that would prevent any abuses taking place in making appointments either by the Governor- Gene ral or Secretary of State. If that were agreed to the bill would provide four distinct checks against the improper exercise of the patronage. H 3 had doubtssuggested whether tie r c o e t n h fi a r n rn a a t i f o o n r m ; o f the aand a h Secretary il ada s of o I t e a 4 t which i w;Tornoeu Would the cheeks tpt a Which he had alluded, would be anything any Secretary of State do more than what was determined i.i.pon at Calcutta?" But to that he would point out that since his xi ht ion. friend had been in office there were two appointments Wilicia were made by the authorities in India, but which his right hon, frien4 consideroa pure im properly made, and had therefore been cancelled. (Um.) Now if that was likely to be done at present, when the Se cretary of State was not called upon to interfere actively, it would be much more likely to be dote when the confirma tion by the Home Government would be required and when the Secretary of State would feel as much as the Governor- General his responsibility. (Hear, hear.) As to any inter ference by the council being a check, he did not think it could be relied upon. He knew no set of men than the council who could give opinions upon cases of this kind more independently, for they had nothing to hope and nothing to fear, and they would naturally act in harmony with the Secretary of State. He had seen enough of those gentlemen to know that they would have no feeling of ten derness for any Secretary of State or Governor-General if they were inclined to disfavour the subsequent appointments. He believed the council would be at all times ready to in terfere if necessary. Further he remembered that in 1858— the time when the new arrangements were made for India —the popular theory was that Parliament would not take any interest in Indian matters ; but those who had watched the state of the house as to what had taken place within the last two years or 18 months would probably have formed a judgment as to the soundness of those opinions. (Hear.) Well, what were the objections taken to the principle of the bill F His hon. friend (Mr. ansittart) told his right hon. friend (Sir C. Wood) that this attempt to do away with the competitive system of 1853 would lead indirectly to the re introduction of the system of patronage which he so much deprecated, but he did not attempt to oppose it. (Hear, hear.) His hon. friend further said if this bill passed they would have the old abuses over again, and the Governor- General would be taking out his relations and friends with a view of providing for them in India. (Hear, hear.) Now, inasmuch as it was a rule that no Governor-General remained in India for seven years, he thought it would be impossible to provide for friends in this manner, and he thought that no person would follow a Governor-General to India for the mere chance of being able to obtain from another Governor-General an appointment to office. He did not think that any man would follow that course. Mr. VAN SIT TART—The noble lord has misunderstood what I said. I merely quoted the last speech delivered in this house by the late Lord Macaulay on this subject. Lord STANLEY had supposed it was part of the speech of his hon. friend. He (Lord Stanley) had not referred to Lord Macaulay's speech, and knew not under what circum stances it was delivered by him, but he had no doubt if Lord Macaulay had had an opportunity of examining this bill he would have expressed a different opinion. He had no doubt if the old system of the civil service prior to the act of 1853 was renewed, they would have the old abuses which were connected with it. Then his hon. friend said be believed the natives would object to this new system, and look upon it as an injury to them, because men of an inferior class would be appointed to higher offices. But one of the objects of the bill was to admit natives to higher offices than they had hitherto been allowed to hold; and he was therefore surprised to hear such an objection to the bill from his hon. friend. He thought that no man could at pre sent say what opinions the natives would hold with regard to this measure. (Hear.) He had seen some of the papers published in India, though written in England, and he had never seen one which did not express a feeling that the civil service ought to be opened up to natives. (Hear.) He thought that under the,provisions of this bill no man would be tempted to go out to India with a view of getting one of these appointments. No doubt the bill would admit a large quantity of officers in the army who were now ex cluded from civil employment, and it would also provide for those uncovenanted servants to whom now the higher offices were not open. It would not be likely that here or in India barristers who were successful in practice would accept of those offices, and those who were unsuccessful would not be likely to be appointed on account of any spe cial merit. They were all agreed that the appointments of natives to the civil service should be made in a sparing manner, seeing that it was an experiment. (Hear.) Look ing at all the circumstances he did not think that the pre sent system of training for the civil service would be greatly interfered with. Young men would go out to India, and their whole life would be one of preparation for the higher offices; and he believed they wculd hold their ground against all competitors or outsiders, or they would be much inferior in energy and capacity than he had supposed them to be. (Hear.) He thought the provisions of this measure would effectually remove that feeling which existed in India very strongly—viz., jealousy on the part of unofficial Euro peans, which was one of the social difficulties with which they had to deal in India. (Hear.) He believed the bill would prove a valuable measure, and he was bound to say that he confirmed the opinion of those hon. members who recommended that the authority to appoint to offices should be inserted in the bill, and not left to the regulations of the Secretary of State, and therefore he should be prepared to support that proposition, if proposed by any hon. member, and to take the sense of the house upif it. (Hear.) Mr. PULLER believed that the second clause was not intended to have a general effect, but was merely to enable the authorities in India, with the concurrence of the Secre tary of State, to make exceptional appointments in excep tional cases. Under whatever aspect he viewed thebill, he thought it most inportant that a certainty should be estab lished as to what offices were and what offices were not to be thrown open in India to the uncovenanted servant. S_ir E. COLEBROOKE thought there could be no ob jection to the principle of the bill in the abstract. The house ought not, however, to be called upon to decide the question until they were put in possession of the opinions of the public servants in India upon it. With regard to the native service, he was ready to give the Government a carte blanche to do what they liked. The real difficulty re garded those who were not of the covenanted service. The true mode of serving the public well in India was to esta blish some system of competition like that which we had in this country. Sir M. FARQUHAR thought the right hon. gentleman need not be surprised if this bill excited Treat alarm in the minds of the civil servants in India, If this bill were car ried he thought that all uncovenanted servants who should receive appointments under the bill should undergo all those tests which the covenanted servants were at present liable to. Mr. ADAM thought this bill was one of the greatest im portance, dealing with the whole question of the civil ad ministration of India, and he was afraid that if it was hur ried through the house great evil would result. Great safeguards ought to be provided to secure that there should be no jobbing in these appointments. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE appealed to the Government to consent to the adjournment of the debate. (No, no.) They had now (11 o'clock) been discussing Indian questions since half-past 4. The bill did not contain proper provisions, and they wanted proper information. Mr. H. D. SEYMOUR hoped the hon. gentleman would not press the motion for adjournment, but would allow the bill to be read a second time, if only pro forma. The second reading only affirmed the principle of the bill, and it was admitted on all hands that some such measure was neces sary, and he did not see how any Secretary of State could have done otherwise than to bring in a bill generally similar to this. All the improvements suggested, such as the introduction of restrictions, could be introduced in com mittee. He had long thought that some means should be taken to throw open to the uncovenanted service some higher appointments. He did not think that the bill would injure the civil service so much as was imagined. He thought the civil servants of India showed too great a distrust of Government. Restrictions could easily be inserted in com mittee. Government had already agreed to the test of seven years' service, and, as he understood, to the test of knowledge of the language. At all events, that was a rea sonable test which ought to be agreed to. Any man of ordis nary intelligence could learn the language in a year. It would be advisable to have publicity, which was the best possible check against jobbery. Here was a public necessity which must be met, and he did not think anyone could show a better way of meeting it than that proposed. Mr. HENLEY did not see why the debate should be ad journed, or why the several measures should not be bzought on together. The state of the house was not such as showed great interest in Indian questions, and if there had only been one, the house might not have divided. As for the distrust of Government shown by the civil servants, they could only judge of the instructions of Government by their acts. He thought this measure would be injurious to the interests of the civil servants. He hoped that the right hon. baronet would consent to introduce into the bill such regulations as were considered necessary for the security of the service, and those regulations could not be introduced until the bill went into committee. There was, therefore, no necessity for postponing the second reading of the bill, and he considered that the best course would be io allow the bill to be read, if only pro forma, in order that the re- gulations should be printed and made known, and fair time given for their consideration. Mr. CRA UFURD hoped that the house would not con sent to the adjournment of the debate, and was bound to say that, having heard the arguments on both sides of the question, he had come to the conclusion that the public of India were not less interested in this question than the members of the civil service. In his opinion it would be advisable to have the regulations introduced into the bill. (Hear, hear.) Sir J. FERGUSSON thought that the house ought to have the report of the Commission and the dissents of the Council of India, and if the right hon. baronet, the Secre tary of State for India, would consent to produce those documents, the hon. baronet the member for Portsmouth would probably not think it necessary to persevere with his motion for the adjournment. Col. SYKES considered the bill as one which, in many important respects, broke faith with the Indian civil ser vice. The Court of Directors of the East India Company had passed a resolution condemnatory of this bill. Sir C. WOOD hoped the house would not agree to the motion for the adjournment of the debate, and contended that the course he had adopted in bringing in the four bills in one evening was the best and most convenient that he could have adopted. He could only say that he did not think the interests of the civil service would be injured by the bill. On the pontrary, ho believed that that service would be 4iled by persons well qualified for the office. Lord Canning and other practical authorities in India had all made strong representations in favour of the principle of the measure. lie was willing to insert iu it a clause containing a restriction as to the seven years' residence in 4c 1 44, but with regard to the test of language, i t was diffi cult to define such regulation, lie would, however, Mi. eider in what form the question might be dealt with, in order to introduce a regulation on the subject in committee. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE said that if the right hon. baronet would fix the second reading of the bill for that day fortnight he would consent to withdraw his motion. Sir C. WOOD replied that he had no objection to fix it for that day week. The house was proceeding to a division, but none took place, and the bill was read a second time. EXCISE AND STAMPS BILL. This bill was read a third time and passed. QUEENSLAND GOVERNMENT BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. Mr. CHILDERS moved certain clauses, which were agreed to, and the house resumed. COURTS OF JUSTICE BUILDING BILL. This bill passed through committee. TRANSFER OF STOCKS AND ANNUITIES BILL. The house went into committee on this bill. In reply to Sir E. GROGAN, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said the obiect of the bill was to give Ireland the very great benefit that country would derive under its provisions. It was ex clusively designed for the immediate convenience of the public. The bill then passed through committee, and the third reading was named for Monday. DEALERS IN OLD METALS. This bill was read a second time. The other orders of the day were disposed of, and the House adjourned at half-past 12 o'clock. SPORTING INTELLIGENCE. ASCOT RACES.-THURSDA.Y. A Sweepstakes of 50 sovs each, h ft, for three-yr-olds, Bst 71b; fillies, Bst 31b; allowances, &c. Swinley Course. 6 subs. Mr. Saxon's Big Ben, Bst llb (L. Snowden) 1 Mr. Snewing's Cashio, Bst 31b (J. (boater) 2 Betting--5 to 4on Big Ben, who waited upon Cashio to the turn into the straight, where he drew up to him, quitted him at the distance, and won in a canter by six lengths. L. Snowden and J. Goater were fined 2 sovs each for taking the preliminary canters before the course was cleared. A Plate of 100 soya, for maiden horses ; weight for age; allowances, &c. Swinley Course. 10 subs. Sir H. De Voeux's Snapshot, 3 yrs, Bst 71b (W. Bottom) 1 Mr. T. Parr's Nuthatch, 3 yrs, Bst 41b (Clement) 2 Mr. Brayley's Sycophant, 3 yrs, Bst 71b.... (Lambourn) 3 The following also ran :—Auricula, Handsome Jack, Acco, British Prince, and Reveille. The betting opened at 5 to 2 agst Snapshot, but closed at 5 to 2 agst Nuthatch, 4to 1 agst Snapshot, and 5 to 1 agst Sycophant. Sycophant jumped away with the lead, with Handsome Jack second, and Acco third. They ran in this order for a short distance only, when they were passed by Acco, who took a clear lead, and they went on without further change until passing the brick kilns, when Handsome Jack was passed by Nuthatch. On making the last turn Acco ran wide and became last, Snapshot joining Nuthatch and Sycophant. The last mentioned was beaten at the half distance, and Nuthatch and Snapshot ran a fine race home, Snapshot winning by a head ; two lengths between second and third ; British Prince was a bad fourth ; Auricula fifth, Handsome Jack sixth ; Reveille and Acco beaten off. The St. James's Palace Stakes of 100 sovs each, for 3-yr olds, Bst 71b ; fillies, Bst 41b; maidens allowed 71b. Old mile. 9 subs. Lord Stamford's Walloon, Bst 71b (A. Edwards) 1 Lord Exeter's Knight of St. Patrick, Bst 71b.. (Aldcroft) 2 Mr. Wyndham's Lisbon, Bst (F. Adams) 3 Bet ing-5 to 4 on Walloon, 5 to 2 agst Knight of St. Patrick, 5 to 1 agst Lisbon. Lisbon made play, with the favourite at his quarters, to the brick kilns, where the three separated, about a length and a half dividing each. No change in their positions oc curred, however, until nearing the turn, when Walloon went up to Lisbon, and ranwith him a short distance, being about half a length ahead. He held his lead to the end, winning very cleverly by three-quarters of a length; St. Patrick, who came with a rush opposite the Stand enclo sure, beating Lisbon by two lengths. The Gold Cup, value 300 sovs, by subscription of 20 Boys each, with 200 added ; weight for age. To start at the cup post, and go once round, about two miles and a half. 17 subs. Mr. Merry's 'I hormanby, 4 yrs, Bst 71b .. (Custance) 1 Mr. Cartwright's Fairwater, 3 yrs, 6st 131 b.. (Grimshaw) 2 Mr. Saville's Parmesan, 4 yrs, Bst 71b (Aldcroft) 3 The following also ran :—St. Albans, Royallieu, Dulci bella, and Plumper. Betting—Even on Thormanby, 5 to 2 agst St. Albans, 5 to 1 agst Parmesan, 10 to 1 agst Daleibella, 12 to 1 agst Fairwater. The preliminary canters were watched with much inte rest, and owing to the new regulation, which compelled the jockeys to wait until the course was quite cleared, the occupants of the stands and carriages were enabled to obtain an uninterrupted view of the horses. Dulcibella was the first to canter up the course, and many ladies who had betted gloves on the race were puzzled to discover her name from the fact of her jockey wearing Lord Stamford's colours, and not those which were on the card. His lordship, how ever, had purchased the mare in the morning for £1,200, agreeing to certain contingencies with respect to future en gagements. Dulcibella was quickly followed down the course by Parmesan. Then came Thormanby, his coat shining in the sun like burnished copper. Royallieu and Fairwater next made their appearance, and after some little time Lord Ailesbury's two, Plumper and St. Albans, walked down the course, passed the Grand Stand, and then cantered gently back. Meanwhile the others had proceeded to the starting-post, but were not long delayed there by the ab sence of Plumper and St. Albans. They soon fell into their positions and the starter got them away at the first attempt. They ran in a cluster to the road, on crossing which Plumper took the lead, leaving Dulcibella in close attendance, St. Albans, Parmesan, and Thormanby being nearly abreast at their heels, and two lengths from them came Fairwater, and Royallieu last, double that distance from her. In this order they passed the Stand and ran to the top turn, where Dul cibella quitted Plumper and carried on the running , , Plumper going on second, Parmesan third, and Thormanby next. At a clear interval behind them was St. Albans at the head of the ruck. On going down the hill towards the old course, Dulcibella slightly increased her lead, and they mo mentarily disappeared, but on coming into sight near the Old Mile Post, Plumper, St. Albans, and Thormanby were run ning in a cluster at Dulcibella's quarters, Fairwater being next. Soon afterwards Plumper dropped into the rear, and joined Royallieu, who had been last from the start. At the Brick Kiln turn, Dulcibella compounded, and Par mesan bore his colours in advance, with St. Albans second, Thormanby third, and Fairwater fourth, and in this order , they rounded the turn, Parmesan being in the middle, with St. Albans next the rails, and Thormanby on the outside, Fairwater running in their track. A few yards before reaching the distance pose . , Parmesan was beaten, and Thormanby took the lead; St. Albans dropped back in a few strides further, and Fairwater became second, but from that point the success of the favourite was not for an instant in doubt. He entered in at his ease, and won by two lengths. The third was beeten a long way, and the others were pulled up. A Plate of 100 sovs, added to a Sweepstakes of 5 sovs each; weight for age ; winner to be sold for 500 sovs, or if not to be sold, to carry 71b Extra. One mile. 9 subs. Mr. Ten Broeck's Satellite, 5 yrs, 9st (Fordham) 1 Mr. Payne's Rattlebone, 4 yrs, Bst 91b.... (L. Snowden) 2 Sir J. Hawley's Gallus, 5 y rs, 9 st 71b (in 71b ex) (Wells) 3 Capt. D. Lane's Gibraltar, 4 yrs, Bst 91b (J. Mann) 4 Betting-7 to 4on Satellite, 5 tot agst Gallus. Gibraltar, with Gallus second, made the running to the Brick Kilns, where Satellite took second place. Gibraltar held a long lead on rounding the turn into the straight, Rattlebone being last, but the former was beaten at the distance, and Satellite, followed by Gallus, took up the running, Rattlebone, however, passed Gallus at the Stand enclosure, but could not reach Satellite, who won by two lengths; three-quarters of a length between second and third; Gibraltar was last, beaten some distance. The New stakes, of 10 soya each, with 100 added ; for 2-yr-olds ; colts, Bst 71b ; fillies, Bst 21b; winners extra. T.Y.C. 64 subs. Mr, W. Day's Alvediston, 2 yrs, Bst 71b (A. Day) 1 Mr. Merry's Buckatone, Bst 121 b (incl 51b ex) (Cultance) 2 Mr. T. Valentine's Hippodamia, Bst 21b (Boyce) 3 Baronßothschild'sWingrave, Bst 121 b (inc 51b ex) (Wells) 4 The following also ran :—Kaiser, Lunelle f, Coulon, Margery, Feu de Joie, Hopeful Duchess, Buffcon, Laugh ing Stock, ana Carisbrook. Betting —Even on Buckstone, 4 to 1 each agst Alvedis ton and Wingrave, 6to 1 agst Ceulon, 10 to 1 agst any other. Many complaints were occasioned by the tardiness with which the number of Wingrave was shown on the telegraph board. The inadvertence was thus explained :—Wells weighed for the horse, but he had no instructions as to whether it would run or not, and he therefoz e requested the clerk of the scales not to " book" him until he had re ceived orders. Messengers were sent to Baron Rothschild to ascertain his wishes, and the baron expressed his deter mination to start the horse, which it was alleged was slightly amiss, and " running at the nose." As soon as Wells re ceived his orders to saddle, he informed the clerk of the course, who immediately caused the horse's number to be placed on the telegraph board. The betting instantly underwent a change, for the odds which had been laid on Buckstone dropped to evens against him. The start was admirahly effected, and, as the horses stretched in a line across the course, th e sun glistened on the varied colours of the riders' jackets until the eyesight became quite dazzled. The horses got off in such compact order that it was impossible, until they had gone half the distance, to distinguish the front rank. The most promi nent, as they crossed the road, were Wingrave, on the I whip-hand, Feu-de-J oie, Alvediston , Margery, and Hippo e second damia. From the distance the eaefich rat first ran s f e o p u a r ed t t t h slas hing race home, Alvediston having a little the best o f it, and winning by a head ; oniy a head excep tion from the third, and the third fromthef withourt the h. Feu- de Joie close up, headed the next lot, which, of Hopeful Duchess, who was beaten off, finished in a body. The Royal Stand Plate of 200 sous, added to a sweepstakes of 10 goya weight for age, f,ce, ; Winners extra ;al THE SUN; both in Calcutta and in the Presidencies, one-half of the official members shall consists of natives;" and he should take the sense of the house on the subject. At present it was optional. He thought it was of the utmost im portance that natives should be admitted members of these councils,in fair proportions. It was said that the natives would not speak in these councils, but the present gene ration could speak a little, and the next generation would speak as long and as well as they did. There was a growing desire in this country to treat India as if it were a colony, forgetting that there was a very great distinction between a dependency and a colony. —y- Itrwesapseicmta possible to be that, because a colony was in every new country, while India was not only densely populated, but there was not an inch of land in the country that did not belong to somebody. The hon. member for Manchester said the natives were idle and lazy, but nothing could be further from the fact. He had never seen more beautiful cultivation in his life than when he travelled there, and as to the native troops, none in the wor ld were capable of en during more privations; and it was we ll k nown that, dur ing the mutiny, they marched, in many instances, 40 miles a day. It was not idleness, but the simple question that that they did not get a fair return for their labour. The planters of indigo wished to make it appear that the ryots would net cultivate it, but it was not so ; their objection was, that in many cas es th ey were l osers b y the prices they received.. He compl a i ne d th at t h e nat i ves were not men , boned at all in the bill before the house, whereas if they wished to govern India as it ought to be governed they must allow them a fair share in the administration of their own affairs. With regar d t o th e publicity of the proceed ; ings of the Legislative Council, he trusted it would take place at all events to a limited extent; but he agreed with the Governor-General that great care should be taken in doing so, lest the people should be deceived bymisrepresen tations. A mere misunderstanding led to that dreadful mutiny in which so many lives were lost. It was said by the Governor-General, and he agreed with him, that those reports should be made by authorised persons, and after wards revised, and if nobody could be found out there to do so, the Government at home ought to provide for it. He also thought the council should be at liberty to take a part in discussing the revenue of the country and the means by which it was procured, because it formed a very important part of their functions. He believed, however, that on the whole, with a few alterations, such as he had suggested, Ithe bill might be made very useful, especially if one half of the council was composed of natives. Sir E. COLEBROOKE regretted that these important bills were not introduced at an earlier period of the session, and not at a time when so much pressing business was be fore the house. He did not believe with the hon. member for Manchester, that the effect of their legislation would be to have separate Governments for the different provinces of India, nor did he wish it, because the authority of a central united executive was the best system that could be adopted. The introduction of non-officials into,the council was also a great improvement; but if they admitted them they must, in common justice, admit also a proportion of the natives. Those connected with the Government ought, no doubt, to have a preponderating influence, but the natives ought to have a fair ahare in the administration of their own affairs. Those provinces had just got out of a most tremendous re bellion, but he hoped a series of good measures for their future government would have the effect in future of pre venting such disasters. Col. SYKES bore testimony to the intelligence of the natives of India. He had seen lately that they assembled in public meetings without the presence of a single Euro pean, and at Bombay speeches were made to express their gratitude to the late Lord Elphinstone, characterised by an eloquence that could not be surpassed. He believed their knowledge of the country and people would enable them to confer great benefit on the administration of Go vernment, if they were permitted to become members of the Council. In this bill before the house he regretted to say they were not even alluded to; and if the hon. member for Southwark had not given notice that he would in committee propose that admission, he (Col. Sykes) would most cer• tainly have done so. He thought the power given to the Governor-General and governors of provinces over councils, in making rules and regulations, would have the effect of making them mere tools, the more especially as they were not empowered to bring forward any measure affecting the revenue without the consent of the Executive. On the whole, however, he believed the bill would be productive of great benefit, and he should give it his support. Mr. BUXTON concurred with the hon. member for Southwark as to the immense advantage the publicity of the proceedings of the Council would confer on the country. Experience must have shown the great value of having the mind of the people brought to bear on measures which so vitally affected their own interests. It was complained that no member of these councils could bring in any question in the shape of a charge on the public revenue without the sanction of the Governor-General and the Executive; but that was not at all an unreasonable proposition, for no hon. member could so in that house. He congratulated his right hon. friend on the success of the measures he brought for ward, and agreed with the hon. and learned gentleman who preceded him, that the natives ought to have some share in the Government of their country. It was impossible to avoid seeing the great intelligence springing up amongst them, and he believed they would in future avoid such calamities as had lately happened in India by adopting such a policy, and associating them with ourselves in the management of their own affairs. Mr. KINNAIRD expressed his opinion that time should be allowed for the deliberate discussion in committee of all the details of the measure, which had been very incon veniently introduced at the busiest part of the session. As regarded the limitation of the period during which a seat at the council was to be held, ho thought that was a matter open to grave doubt. The placing of natives on the council had his warmest sympathy, and the right hon. gentleman was entitled to the best thanks of the country for his bill. Mr. AYRTON said that the bill reminded him of an elaborate machine containing so many levers that when its 1 maker proceeded to set it in motion he found it impossible in consequence of the amount of friction involved in the attempt. He believed it to be impossible to govern India by Englishmen and those who had been designated natives. It would have been far better if the right hon. gentleman's council in London, composed of 15 men of the greatest ex perience in Indian affairs and legislation, should be charged with, or that the Governor-General should have a direct i veto on, any proposed legislation. Either of these courses would have freed them from the complications in which this bill was likely to involve them, together with the universal distrust and hatred of a single Government. Why should we be constantly teaching the Indian people that their country was to be a great country, and yet make them fa miliar with the idea that 40,000 men governed a population of 200,000,000? By separating the Government as much as possible into portions they would avoid all those dangers and acquire many important advantages, whereas if they did not regard that great principle of policy he much feared that before long consequences would ensue which that house would deeply regret to see. Re merely made those re marks, leaving it to the right hon. gentleman to take ad vantage of them if he thought proper ; but, at any rate, he implored him to make his bill more conformable to Asiatic ideas, and above all not to deal with details by the Imperial Parliament. Sir J. ELPHINSTONE hoped the house would not accept the statements of the hon. member as the opinion of those who had most maturely considered the subject. He certainly objected to having no less than four impor tant Indian bills brought before them on one evening, each of which would have deserved an evening to itself. He ob jected to the procedure all the more because they had not before them the opinion of the Indian Council. The inevi table effect of the establishment of these debating societies in connexion with a despotic Government would be to cause a great increase of the cost of governing ;Julia. If the Go vernment, instead of bringing in these four bills this year, had brought in some well-devised scheme of finance by which the army and navy of India, and theseneral admi nistration, would have been placed on a better footing, they would have more effectually promoted their ostensible ob ject. . _ . Mr. H. D. SEYMOUR totally dissented from the view of the hon. baronet opposite. He believed that it was im possible for the Government to equalise revenue and expen diture, however, much thf•y might desire that, until the general government of India had been fundamentally im proved. The means for that purpose provided by the bills of the Government appeared to him to be well calculated for that object, and a good sound financial system must in the end result from it. Sir C. WOOD said he had explained so fully the nature of the bill, and the principles on which it was based when he moved for leave to introduce it, that it was not neces sary for him again to trouble the house at any length. It was the less so from the nature of the speeches which had been delivered by hon. members that night, and to which ezwe views in expressed _ upon the whole he had listened with great gratification. He was pleased to find such general approval of the princi ples and objects of the measure, which in fact carried out the vi ews impressed with Us in the G f ° u v tu enar r c , nor the upon Lord Canning by long Heexperi ence certainly could not concur in the for the Tower Hamlets. The great hon. : mile er by the hon. member for Radnor, the bills before the h m ou object of the one subject of her Majesty make any might be their race, language, • those who were employed would e t was to associate the natives administration of India. Nor did and another, whatever Of course capacity and attainments ; but there wsoould according b to their dis tinctions of inferiority and superiority ereateednbo legal etween the different subjects of her Majesty by act of Parliament. associate the natives with us in the government t 1 India frankly and fairly, was the spirit which ran throughath whole of the bills he had laid on the table. The desire of the Government was to act in the fullest manner on the pro clamation which her Majesty issued on assuming the direct government of India, and he felt gratified by the general approval which had been extended to this bill. (Hear.) orbereligion. distinction between The bill was then read a second time. EAST INDIA (HIGH COURTS OF JUDICATURE) BILL. Sir C. WOOD moved that this bill be izad second time. Mr. HADFIELD said there was a great want of barris ters and legally educated persons in India conversant with the laws and languages of India, as well as with the law of this country. He thought that as it was proposed tc) Mg' lowances, &c. To start at the distance post, and go once round and in. Mr. Ten Broeck's Optimist, 4 yrs, Bst 31b.... (Fordham) I Mr. Harrion's Lady Ripon, 3 yrs, 6st 131 b.. (Challoner) 2 Baron Niviere's Surp. ise, 4 yrs, 7st 111 b --(Watkins) 3 The following also ran Queen of the Vale, and Sporting Life. Betting—Even on Optimist, 5 to 2 agst Lady Ripon, 5 to 1 agst Umpire. Won by two lengths; a bad third. A Plate of 100 soya, added to a Sweepstakes of 5 sovs each; weight for age, with selling allowances. Half a mile. 18 subs. Captain Coates's Libellous 4 yrs, Bst 121 b.... (Aldcroft) 1 Mr. A. French's Leontes, yrs, Bst 111 b .. (A. French) 2 Mr. A. Williams's Acco, 3 yrs, Bst 91b (J. Adams) 3 The following also ran :—Ernestine colt, Turtle Dove, Liberality, Principal, El Dorado filly, Chateau Lafitte, Miss Swift,. Grasshopper colt, Miss Coutta, and Lady Peel colt. Betting-6 to 4 agst Leontes, sto 1 agst Liberality, 6to 1 agst Libellous, 8 to 1 agst any other. Leontes, Liberality, and Libellous ran in front. At the distance Liberality knocked down a man who was crossing the course, and was pulled up, and Libellous, taking the lead, won by two lengths, BETTING AT MANCHESTER—TRURSDAY. The principal business of the day was the doings at Ascot ; but there was some little done on the Northumber land Plate, for which Underhand and Yorkminster were in request. The former was supported very freely at 7to 1, and all the 10's to 1 that could be got were taken about the latter. The only other animals we saw touched upon were Syringe and the Makeless filly. CLOSING- PRICES. NORTHUMBERLAND PLATE. 7to 1 apt Underhand (taken freely) 10 to 1 agst Yorkminster (taken freely) 12 to 1 agst Syringe (taken) 14 to 1 agst Makeleas filly (taken) RAILWAY BILLS. HOUSE OF LORDS. In the Committee of which Earl St. Germans is chairman the Cheshire and Midland, West Cheshire, and London and North-Western and Cheshire Rail ways were considered and passed. The London and North-Western Railway (Eccles and Wigan) Bill was opened by Mr. Merewether. It is op posed by the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway Company. HOUSE OF COMMONS. London, Chatham, and Dover Railway (Exten sion to Ramsgate). —The committee declared the preamble to be proved. After which Mr. Sergeant Wrangham opened the case for the promoters of the Margate Railway Bill, to lease the undertaking to the London, Chatham, and Dover Company. Brecon and Merthyr Junction Railway.—The committee declared the preamble of this bill to be proved. Llanelly Railway and Dock (New Lines).—The case for the promoters was opened by Mr. Jones. Mr. Phinn, Q.C., appeared to oppose on behalf of the South Wales Railway Company; and Sir W. Alexander and Mr. J. Johnson to oppose for the Bishop of St. David's. Swansea and Neath Railway.—Evidence for the promoters was continued. Somerset Central Railway. —The case for the promoters was closed, and the opposition of the East Somerset Railway was proceeded with. Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Derwent, and Weardale Railway.—The evidence closed for the promoters, and evidence taken in favour of the Blaydon and Conside Railway, the competing scheme. Stockton and Darlington, South Durham and Lancashire Union, and Eden Valley Companies' Amalgamation.—The committee rejected the part of the bill for amalgamation, but declared the pre amble proved as to the appropriation of the roll ing stock. West Hartlepool Harbour and Railway.—Evi dence continued on the part of the promoters. COUNTRY DIABRETS. MANCHESTER —JUNE 13. English wheat in small supply, at is to 28 lower in price. American, 4d per 701bs lower. English flour la per sack, and American 6d per barrel under late rates, with scarcely anything doing. Oats and oatmeal slow, with a downward tendency. Egyptian beans receded ls, and Indian corn firm. BIRMINGHAM—JUNE 13. At to-day's market there Was a short supply of wheat from the farmers, and the sales made of both English and fine foreign were at is to 2s lower. Barley held firm, as also oats, at unaltered prices. Beans and peas is to 2s cheaper. PLYMOUTH-JUNE 11. The market more active, with a small attendance, and a dscline of is 4d on last week's currencies—English white wheat, 60s to 64s ; red, 56s to 6Cs per qr ; French do., 60s to 62s ; American, 61s to 63s ; Spanish, 74s to 76s ; Rus sian, 60s to 625. Barley in good supply, at 36s to 43s per qr for malting ; grinding, 32s to 36s ; oats, 24s to 28s ; and beans, --s to —s ; flour, 44s to 46s 6d. CORK—JUNE 12. The following were the quotations this morning :—Red wheat, 25s Od to —s Od ; white, 315,0 d to —s Od; barley 153 6d to 18s Od ; oats, 14s Od to 16s Od, EDINBURGH GRAIN-JUNE 12. Wheat on the top Os 9d up. average is Od down. Barley on the top 6s Od down average Os 2d down. Oats on the top Os 6d down average Os 3d down. Beans on the top Os 9d down. average Os 10e1 down. Averages per Imperial quarter. Wheat.... New wheat .... x 0 0 0 0-12ths Barley 1 17 3 3-12ths Oats Beans Total Supply and Sales. Wheat ..1060 qrs Sold 824 qrs 8ar1ey........ 188 qrs Sold 94 qrs Oats Beans 125 qrs Sold 99 gra DERBY SMITHFIELD—JUNE 11. There was a good supply of fat beasts, and of excellent quality. The demand was flat, and a clearance not effected. A good supply of sheep and lambs, maintaining former prices. The supply of calves was large. Fat pigs were in better suply. Beet 74d to 71d Veal 6ld to 7d Mutton ..,.......,Od to 71d I Pork Lamb .......... 81d to 9d Rough fat, bs Od per stone. Hides, 34d to P ,d • calf skins, 5d to 6d. 4 THE 111A1LS. MAILS DUE. Australia, Ceylon, and Mauritius (via South ampton) _ Juno 18 Do. (via Marseilles) June 12. Brazil and Cape Verds .. July 4.] Buenos Ayres, Monte Video, Cuba and Mexico .. June !eB. Canada, &c. (via L'derry) June 12. Cape.of Good Hope, &c. July 2 China, Penang, and Singapore (via S'ampt on ) June 18. Do (via Marseilles) June i 2 Gibraltar (via Southampton) .. .. Overdue. India (Calcutta), Ceylon, &c. (via Southampton) June 18. Do. (via Marseilles) June 12. • India (Bombay), (via Southampton) Overdue. Do. • (via Marseill es ) .. .. June 19. Lisbon June 11. Malta, Egypt, and Aden (via Southampton) .. Overdue. Do. (via Marseilles) .. June 12. Vigo, and Oporto .. June 11. United States, California, &c. .. June 6. Western Coast of Atrica, Madeira, Teneriffe .. Overdue. West Indies and Pacific, Carthagena, Cuba, &c. June 13. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—HoIIoway's Pills and Ointme_iial.--: Disordered Stomach.—Whenever the stomach fails S:ln the and check y prescribed fully to perform its functions, indigestion is produ o re ng un issue of which is uncertain. The food, after digested through the sluggish stomach irritate s s P t : b y: ° b e ne dthoeevs:ffweterhles: i n severe cases and sets up diarrhoea, which probably ' rel ru ie for a time. To rectify the disordered diglat u l o the first morbid symptoms, nothing pre i : c i i Y.iate, beneficial, and equals Holloway's Digestive Pills; Nvl t : should be assisted by his Ointm m e: d for ten minutes stomach and right side perseveriollg f these remedies over twice a day. The united actimln, stomach, liver, and bowels is d ease, and simultaneously lasting • they restore order remove the cause and consequences of the disease. BIRTHS. at Cla phara-coramon, the harles Andreae, Esq., of a daughter. wife of John C the 12th inst., at Broomwood, Surrey, Lady ANDREAE.—On the FORBEn . • • Wife of Sir William Forbes, Bart., of Fintra and y Forbes, of a daughter. Craigievar , yEn —At 50 Port „ TAN D E WE • , land-place, Madame Van De 'Weyer, of a daughter. 12th inst., MARRIAGE S. pENNELL—HITTCHINSON.—On the 11th i t. at Carlisle, Rear-Admiral Pennell, o f Ravenside, near Carlisle, to Frances Elizabeth, eldest daughter of Francis Celridge Hutchinson, Esq., M.D., of The Cottage, Brisco, near Carlisle. WADE—HALL —On the 12th inst., at Sandal Magna, near Wakefield, J o h n Edward Wade, Esq , of Hull, to Emily, second daughter of W. T. Hall, Esq., Milnthorpe. DE A 'l' S. A NDERSON. --0 11 the Bth inst., at Edinburgh Castle, sud denly , Lieut.-Colonel A. C. Anderson, Fort Major, late of the 86th Regt., aged 58- Asityess.—On the 9th inst., at Battersea-rise, Surrey, H. Ashness, Esq , aged 75. BELL.—On the 11th inst., at 50, Gower-street, Robt. Bell, Esq., aged 73. BURGESS.--On the 11th inst., at the Vicarage, Streatley, Berkshire, the Rev. James. Robert Burgess, aged 52. FLETCHER.—On the 11th inst., Howard Fletcher, Esq., of Springhill House, Walsall, Staffordshire, aged 61. PARRY.—On the 9th inst., at Colchester, Love Albert Parry, Esq., formerly of the Ordnance Department, Harwich, aged 92. LONDON : Printed and Published by lIURDO YOUNG, of No. 112, Strand, Printer, at Tits SUN Office, No. 112,Strand, in the Precinct of the Friday, June 11 l HU. SAM, 14 the ~ Qeunty of ALtddlelez