The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-04 00:00:00

a repreianfativefrirM of' Government were plainly visible. But be begged to remind the House that there was a wide difference indeed between the circumstance of this country and - America. .1n the United States the Consti tution had not been in existence more than forty years. It was not till the year 1779 that the representative part of the American system Of Government had been established, and since that time many important changes, as every body knew, has been made respecting the mode of electing their President. As yet every thing was in uncertainty, for ever since the first establishment of the Government of the United States it had been undergoing a change. He would not say that it bad been deteriorating, for he wished to avoid all invidious phrases, but it had been rapidly under going a change from a republic to a mere democracy. The influence of the Executive Government had been daily be coming less, and more power had c ousequently been vested in the hands of the people. And yet, with respect to that country, where tin re was land uncultivated to an ex tent almost incalculable—where there was no Established Church—where there were no privileged orders—where property existed an a very different tenure from that on which it was held in this country, let not the people of England be deceived—let them not imagine from the ex ample of the United States, that because democracy bad succeeded and triumphed there, it would also succeed and triumph here.--(Hear, hear.) With the solitary ex ception of the United States, there was not another country on the face of the globe to he f o und, in which a mixed C o nstitution like that of England- had succeeded. During the last 150 years, in which Eng land had enjoyed that mixed Constitution, she had stood the shock of a disputed succession, of long wars, and of almost-every evil which could befal a State. During that period every country in Europe had suffered the evils of ' invasion, from which we alone had been freed. During that period every country in Europe but our own had sub mitted to a change of dynasty,' or had been rendered sub ject to a foreign power. Look from the nations of Europe to those of South America, which had lately vindicated themselves into independence. If it were assumed as an undeniable principle that the people in all countries might be safely trusted with the enjoyment of power, what was there to prevent a happy experiment of the powers of the people to form a good Government in succeeding in South America? The experiment had been tried, and had failed signally.—(Hear.)— What were the causes which, accotd ing to the unanimous voice of historian., had in all cases led to the decline of empires? The danger of a successful military chieftain' attaching to himself the affections of his legions, and being misled by vanity to turn the a r ms which he had first employed for the defence of his country to his own ambition and aggrandizement- Had not the present Constitution of England saved it for more than a century and a half of military glory from that unfortunate accident. The staff of Marlborough, the greatest chieftain of his age, had been broken in this country with impunity ; and had not the baton of his illustrious friend, the most illustrious commander of the present a g e, . before whose calminating star even the fortunes of N apoleon had quailed—had not the baton crumbled into 'atoms before a vote of that House which he (Sir R. Peel) was then addressing ?---(Hear, hear.)—Again, he had been told of the danger which was likely to accrue to the liberties of England from the em ployment of a standing army. Had ire not been told very recently by the Hon. and Learned Member for Clare that the army of England was eminently obedient and submis sive to the laws ? Had he not said, "So mild is your arrry in its demeanour, so popular is it in all parts of your empire, so confident are the people in its justice and moderation, that I implore you, whenever you have occa sion to call in a force to quell internal disorders, send in your regular army, and not your yeomanry, for they alone will act with temper and discretion ?" The decla ration of the Hon. and Learned Member for Clare was a sufficient answer to that argument. With regard to the influence of the oligarchy, he would ask the Hon. Gentle men to point out to him any instance in which there had been an attempt to subject the people of England to the sway of an oligarchy, or to establish any laws of exclusion or distinction among them ? Up to this time no one practical advantage had been held out to the House as the natural consequence of the change now proposed. All the reasons which had been urged to them for making that change were, that it was necessary to conciliate public opinion. No better way of conciliating the public will had been devised than that of adding half a million elec. t .ra to the constituency of the country ; but if that were a good way of conciliating public opinion, then, if another Government, wishing to participate in the popular opi nion, should add another million to the constituent body, that argument must be entitled to the same success.- -(hear, !:ear.)—We used to be promised that whenever the eonsitution of the House of Commons should undergo a change, securities should betaken for preventing it from a ngaging us in ruinous wars , . All persons who knew any thing of history were well aware that there was no security against war in any poplar Government. Mr. Fax had left it upon record, that upon its commencement, tl e American war was flighty popular. At a liter period it had been predicated by other Statesmen, only inferior to Mr. Fox, that at their commencement all the wars in which we had been subsequently engaged had been highly popular at their outset, but that, on the appearance of tailure, they bad become tiresome, anal out of favour with the people. We u.ed to be told that retrenchment of the public expenditure would be the first immure of the re formed Parliament. But a reforming Government had declared already that all further retrenchment was impos sible.—(Hear.) -We used also to be told that the influ ence of the Crown in that House was so enormous that Re form was necessary as a check upon it. The influence of the Crown in that House !—(Loud cheers.)—Would any man rise up in his place and state that any influence could contend successfully in that House with the influence of public opinion 2—( Hear, hear. )—Hon. Gentlemen were in the habit of saying that the Crown could now influence more Members than at any former period of our history, and that the aristocracy could, by their support, establish or overthrow any Government. Yee, lion. Gentlemen were in the habit of saying this, although, since the death of Lord Liverpool, in 1827, the country had had five different Prime Ministers, and five different Administra tions.—(Loud cheers.)—Such was the influence of the Crown—such was the influence of the aristocracy (Hear, hear.)—He contended that neither of these influ ences had any existence. He then proceeded to show that no practical advantage could arise to the country from this change in the constitution of the House of Commons, and to deprecate the period at which it lad been proposed. That period was a period of great excitement, and if Hon. Gent'e nen would but give themselves the trouble of look ing at the history of Reform, they would find that it was always flourishing when there was either a pressure of great difficulty on the country, or some revolution on the continent which misled the people of England—(Cheers from the Opposition)—by the delusive hopes which it held out to them of the attainment of greater liberty than that which they then enjoyed.—( Hear, hear.)—Look at the question of Reform ; look at the Parliamentary De bates, and they wonld see that whenever the question of Reform was frequently agitated, some dire misfortune lurked behind. It was brought forward with great pomp of circumstance in the year of the rebellion of 1745, it wu brought prominently forward during the American war ; it was brought forward at the commencement of the French war ; and, to come to our own times, it was brought prominently tarward in the-years 1817, 1819, and 1822—in a word, at every period when there was either great commercial or great agricultural distress in the country. Then was Reform brought conspicuously forward ; then was it certain to find favour in the eyes of the people.—(!fear.)—lt was brought forward, too, at periods when the excitement of foreign revolutions misled the judgment of the British people, and deluding them with a false love of liberty, rendered them discontented with the moderate freedom which they enjoyed.—(Hear, hear.).-Mr. Pitt was its advocate and ehampiou in 1780, when t .e establishment of American independence, after a successful struggle with this country, had deluded the en thusiastic lovers of freedom in this country with notions of liberty which it was difficult to comprehend. Front the year 1785 to the year 1790, the question of Reform slept in lethargy like that of the grave ; -but in the latter year.the appalling events of the French revolution again recalled it into life, and inspired it with new powers of existence. Nor was it surprising that the cause of Reform acquired energy.from that revolution, which Mr. Fox had designated in place House tnat as the most stupen dous fab ric of li berty which the ingenuity of man had ever raised. In the Yeor•1190 Mr. Flood brought forward a motion on the subject ut 'Reform, and in the course of his speech upon it referred to the state of France. One of his arguments was thus expressed:--sallFranee improves her Government, you must resto re Yours. Again, what is y o ur situation as to external mangers Fr a nce, the great object of external danger to England, c aa no longer g ive alarm ; during her disturbances she cannot have the power; and after her liberty is established- she will not have the inclination to make ambitions war. • --e better her Government is, the more rational will b e h er-- coon- eels, the more pacific they will be. •Kingi may hope for glory, and their Ministers and minions may hope for plunder from warfare ; but what can the people expect Irons an ambitious war? Nothing but an accumulation of taxes and an effusion of blood. Again, in the year 18a 1, when the question of Reform was brought forward by the Hon. Member for the county of Durham, now Lord Durham, be also appealed to the events which had int before taken place upon the continent, and hailed them' as the auspicious dawn of liberty upon this country. His language was as follows :—" Where its power and" justice are acknowledged, as in Spain, the prospect is most cheering. We see disaffection instantaneously quelled —venerahle and rotten abuses reformed, superstition era dicated, and the Monarch and the people united under a C,onstitution, which alike secures the privileges of the one and the liberties of the other. May I not, then, consis tently hail the rising of this star, in what was' once the most gloomy portion of the European horizon, as a light to show us the way through all our dangers and difficul ties ; as a splendid memorial of the all-conquering power of public opinion?" Was that star of liberty, he would ask, which then appeared in Spain, a steady light to show the people of England the way to an improved etas of freedom, or was it the periodical return of an eccentric comet, which sheds disastrous light, and perplexes na tions with fear of change?—(Hear, hear.)—Again, with the events of the French revolution fresh in the recollection of the country, he bad no hesitation in saying that the same experiment was again in agitation, and the country was again expecting that it could improve its own liberty from the example of what had recently passed in France. "Oh, let us wait (continued the Right Hon. - Gentleman) until we see more of the results of that experiment, for it is proper that we should pause before we make it in our own happy coun try:—(Hear.)—Before we venture upon it, let us ft el assured that the liberty, which now exists in France, if it be the offspring of a just revolution, is that liberty which has virtue and justice as its companions, and peace and prosperity as its attendants.—(Hear, hear.)—l see at pre sent no reasons for expecting to see such consequences emanating from the late revolution in France, and I de precate above all things making the revolution in France a precedent for a revolution in this country; Let us there fore remain content with the well-tempered freedom which we now enjoy, and which we have the means of securing, if we act with ordinary discretion. I lament exceedingly that Government should have 'determined to agitate such a question as that of Reform at this particular crisis ; it would have been wiser in my opinion to have avoided these new causes of excitement, for depend upon it that by this process throughout this land the first seeds of discontent and disunion are sown.—(Loud cheers from the Opposition. )—ln every town there will be a c. nflict— a mural conflict, I mean—between the possessors of existing authority, and existing privileges, and those to whom the existing authority and the existing privileges are to be transferred. Oh, Sir, I lament, beyond measure, that Government had not the prudence to adhere to that tem perate course of policy which they have pursued elsewhere. I I tment that if they did •think it necessary to propose a plan of Reform in this excited state of the public mind, they did not confine it within those narrow limits which are Consistent with the safety of the country anti the dig nity of their own characters.—(Hear, hear.)--They hive thought proper, however, to adopt another course;-- they have sent through the land the firebrand of agitation —(Cheers from the Opposition)—and it is easy so far to imitate the giant enemy of the Philistines, as to send 300 firebrands through the country, carrying danger and dis may in all quarters ; but it is not easy, when the mis chief is done, to find a remedy for it. In the present difficulties of your situation, you should have the powers of summoning all the energies of life, and should take care that you do not signalize your own destruction by bowing down the pillars of the edifice of your liberty, which, with all its imperfection, still contains the noblest society of freemen known to the habitable world."—(Great cheer ing, and cries of " Adjourn.") Sir J. SEBRIGHT (we believe) moved the adjourn ment of the debate ti!l Five o'clock to-morrow night. It was carried without discussion. The House adjourned at Half-past Two o'clock. SECONI) EDITION. SUN OFFICE. Seven o' Clock. THE LONDON GAZETTE OF THIS EVENING. St. James's Palace, Jan. al, IRII. The King has been pleased to appoint Colonel Sir James Rey nett, K.C.H., one of the Grooms of his Majesty's Bedchamber in Ordinary, in the room of the Hon. John Townsend resigned. St. James's Palace, March 2, 15.31. The King was this day pleased to confer the honour of Knight hood on John de Willie, Esq., Bailiff of the island of Jersey. DECLARATION OF INSOLVENCY. ISAAC HELMER, sen., Nelson-House Academy, Wimble don, Surrey, schoolmaster.. BANKRUPTS. RICHARD JOVE, Cambridge, boot-maker, to surrender March 11, at ten, 18, and April 15, at eleven, at the Conrt of Commissioners. Robinson and Hine, Charter-house-square. JOSEPH WILKINSON, Eamont-bridge, Westmorland, clock-maker, March i 3, 24, and April 15, at eleven, at the George Penrith. Adison Verulam-bildings, London ; Atkinson; Penrith. THOMAS MOSS, Kirkton-in-Lindsey, Lincolnshire, draper, March 15, at three, 19, and April 15, at eleven, at the George Inn, Kirton-in-Lindsey. Bell, Broderick, and Bell, Bow Church yard, London ; Thorpe and Smith, Kirton-in-Lindsey. WILLIAM STEWART, Liverpool, tnerchont, March 24, 25, and April 15, at one, at the Clarendon-rooms, Liverpool. Clare, or Ramsbottom and Roberts, Liverpool ; Taylor and Ros. coe, King's-bench-walk, London. POLYC ARP A LLCOCK, Redditch, Worcester, needle manufacturer, to surrender March 16, 17, and April 15, at twelve, at the Swan Inn, Alcester, Warwick. Crcsswell, Red ditch ; Lowudes and Gatty, Red Lion-square, London. JOSEPH FARRAR and JAMES FA RR AR, Halifax, com mon carriers, March 17, at three, at the Sun Inn, Bradford, March 17, and April 15, at ten, at the Magistrates' room, Hali fax. Jaques and Battve, Coleman-street ; Holroyde, Halifax. JAMES WILLIAMS, Bath, tea-dealer, March 14, 15, and April 15, at eleven, at the Castle and Ball, Inn, Bath. M'Ghje, New Inn, London; Goodhall, St. James's-Parade, Bath. IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT THIS EVENING. HOUSE OF COMMONS. The SPEAK ER took the Chair precisely at Three o'clock. The gallery, as on former evenings, was exceedingly crowded. CLARE ELECTION. Mr. FRANKLAND LEWIS brought up the Report of the Committee on the Clare Election, which declari d Mr. O'Gorman Mahon was not. duly elected ; and that he, loy his friends and agents, bad been guilty of bribery. Mr. O'Gorman Mahon was sitting on the Treasury benches when the report was made. The Speaker beck oned to him to leave the House, a hint which he i►nme diately took, and retired, On the motion of Mr. F. LLwis, a new writ was or dered for the county of Clare. HYTHE ELECTION. Lord STAN LEY presented the report of the Committee on the Hythe Election, which declared the sitting members duly elected ; but that the petition against their return was neither frivolous or vexatious. Lord DuticAtotott took the oaths and his seat for Kil kenny. The Sheriffs of London presented a petition from the Laid Mayor, Aldermen, and Common Council of the City, which set forth that the petitioners were unanimously con. vinced of the necessity of Reform ; that they were una nimous in their approbation of the measure introduced by his Majesty's Ministers, and hoped that it might be carried into effect. hie. Alderman WOOD, in moving the petition to be printed, said there was only one tingle person at the meet ing of the Corporation who objected to the measure introduced by Government, and he was a person who ahviys o':jected to all Reform. The Corporation of London were con vinced of the necessity of Reform. They ;lid not feel at all alarmed that the then corporate rights would be infringed, ..nd it was their most earnest wish to do all in their power to assist his Majesty's Ministers to carry the measure. They not only resolved to petition that House, but they had also come to a determination to address his Majesty upon the subject.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. Alderman WAITIIMAM supported the petition. He had never witnessed any measure that was carried so cor dially. The question of Reform was now firmly advo cated by those who had formerly been its greatest enemies. Sir JAS. MACKINTOSH regretted the absence at that moment of the Hon. and Learned Gentlei.nau, who said that the opinion expressed by the city of London would be a criterion of the sense of the people en the subject.--(llear, hear. )—He regretted exceedingly that that Learned Gentleman was not present to hear the una nimous opinion of the city of London. The whole kingdom would follow the example of the metropolis, and its opinion would very soon be known. He rejoiced that be had lived to see the day, whatever might be the result of this measure in the House of Commons. If Ministers should be obliged to leave their places from the, result of the Bill. They had hell office long enough, and he had lived long enough to see the auspicious measure introduced.—(Hear, bear.) Mr. CALCRAFT said he bad never said any thing about the chartered rights of the city of London. He had made an appeal in their favour, or in favour of the rights Possessed by patrons of boroughs, but when it was proposed to disfranchise . what were called rotten boroughs, it was sacrificing th e pr i v il eges o f i n di v id ua l s , wh o , wh e n they lad been trading in debt, had a sacred right to their elective franchise, as those. on whom it was it:tended to bestow it. There were many Scot and lot payers who had . . never been found guilty of any crime. On constitu- • tional grounds therefore the rights of that useful body of persons ought not to have been sacrificed. The rights of those individuals ought to be treated with as much respect as those of any i other class of freeholders. He respected the opinion of the City of London, and he hoped shortly to hear the opinion of the whole country expressed ; but let that opinion be what it might be should follow that line of duty which in his conscience he thought right. ' Lord MORPETH said the distance he was from the great body of his constituents made it impossible for him to state accurately their opinion as to the measure of Refoi m introduced by Government, but from informa tion lie had received, he believed he was peefectly war ranted in stating their cordial approbation of the plan, and that they were grateful to his Majesty's Ministers for the boon about to be bestowed.—(Hear.) An Holy. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, said •the city of London was not the only corporation that feel grateful to his Majesty's Ministers for the measure they proposed, for lie had a petition to present, signed by the Mayor, Recorder, and corporation of Chiches ter, which expressed their delight and hoped that the measure might be carried. If it was not, they trusted Ministers would throw themselves on the country by a dissolution of Parliament.—(Hear, hear.) Mr. JOHN SMITH said that from one end of the country to the other all classes were unanimous in their approbation of the great measure of Reform. Numerous as the petitions had already been in its favour, he had no doubt there would be still more. Mr. SYKES confirmed the statement of the Noble Lord (Morpeth). He was confident that Yorkshire, almost to a man, was in favour of Reform. Mr. CALVERT said, the borough of Southwark was unanimous in their approbation of the measure introduced by Government. A meeting was to he held in the Town- Hall, and be had no doubt, in a few days be should have to present - a petition on the subject, signed by many thousands. Mr. HUNT said the Bill would disfranchise many of the livery, himself amongst the rest, as he did not reside in the city, but he thanked God and his Majesty's Ministers that such was likely to be the case.—(A laugh.) The great body of the city of London would meet in Common Hall on Monday next, when ke had no doubt they would express their must cordial satisfaction at the plan pro Posed by Miniateri —(Hear.)—He, however, did not think the Van went quite far enough. It should have embraced all classes. The people ought to have universal freedom. No Government had a right to say to one, " You are a slave ;" to another, " You are free." The Bill, as it now stood, would totally deprive three fourths of the most useful parts of the people,—lie meant tl.e mechanics,—of their" elec tive franchise. The worthy Alderman (Wood) said he had often beard Lim (Mr. Hunt) talk about Re form in the Common Hall. He had done so, and be thought that his talking was quite as much to the purpose as the worthy Alderman's pr e aching.—(Laugliter.) Mr. Alderman THOMPSON said, -it certainly was true the petition had been carried almost unani mously. He was present and expressed his apple !tension that the mea.ure was one attended with con siderable danger. In dojos , that, he had only done his duty, and the meeting had a very different opinion of the measure to what he estimated. If the Bill passed into a law, it would disfranchise a large and respectable body of those who had always had a voice in the election of Members fur the city of London. Mr. DANIEL W. HARVEY, as a liveryman of the city of London about to be disfranchised, could not but express his most cordial approbation of the measure. Ile had also very great pleasure in saying that in the place he represented, the plan d Reform proposed by his Maj , sty's Ministers had given the greatest s itisfaction ; and if the measure should have the effect of closing the door of the House against him for ever, he should be still proud of the high distinction, and of the recollection that he once was in a situation to give a vote in favour of a measure calculated to confer such great benefits on the country. After a few words from Mne CAPELL, who was under tow' to say that he should not oppose the Bill, The petition was read, and ordered to be printed. Alderman THOMPSON had given notice to present a petition from the ship owners this evening, but in conse quence of the importance of the debate on which they were about to enter, he should postpone it till Monday. Sir R. FERGUSON presented a petition from Lon donderry against a repeal of the Union. The Hon. Ba ronet said, that, in his opinion, if a repeal were to take place, Ireland must be ruined. Mr. O'CONNELL—If the repeal did not take place, Ireland would at' no • distant period cease to be pert of the empire. Perhaps he had better information on this subject than the Hon. Baronet. He had considered it year after year. The more he was con vinced of the nscessity, and the more universal was that idea becoming. There was no safety for Ireland, if not pro tected by a Legislature of its own; but he believe" that a repeal of the Union would be beneficial to both coun'ries. He would not then enter into the question of the pro priety of arming the Irish Government with more authority. The Lord Lieutenant had now the power to forbid all meeting., even if they were called for the purpose of charity. How far he had exercised prop-ray that power on a late occasion, he (Mr. O'Connell) would nut then inquire.—( Hear, hear.) Sir R. BATESON said, if the discoreent existing in Ireland, some time since, bad been allowed to go on, that country would soon have been in a state of revolution. But the present Government by their prompt and decisive measures had done much to conciliate that distracted country. He wi-bed the late Administration had been equally decisive. REPEAL OF THE UNION. Mr. VILLIERS wished to ask the lion. Member for Waterford whether it was or was not his intention to bring the question of the repeal of the Union Lgore Par liament ? Mr. O'CONNELL said that that would entirely de pend upon the fate of the Reform Bill. It the Reform measure passed, he should not bring forward the question 'at the present time ; but in case it failed, he should undoubtedly and very soon bring forward a Bill for the dissolution of the Union. Mr. HUNT presented a petition from Keighly, com plaining of the situation of the labouring classes of society, and prayirg that some measure might be adopted for their relief. REFORM. MEASURE. Lord JOHN RUSSELL having moved the Order of the y for resuming the adjourned debate on the Reform Bill, Mr. GISBORNE rose to address the House. He felt it became him to address the House modestly after the brilliant speech, he might say the overpowering speech of the Hon. Baronet (Sir R. Peel) on the opposite:side of the House. It was not for so humble an individual as him. self (Mr. Gisborne) to answer all the - arguments of the lion. Baronet, but he should state ina few plain words what his opinions were upon the subject. The Hon. Baronet had assumed that we were in a state •of the . _ greatest prosperity—that we were Ruing under the hap piest and most glorious Constitution, and that, in fact, either we were happy and did not know it, Of enjoying felicity, and would not acknowledge it. Ile l►ad' assumed that what he was pleased to call the clamour of the country, was not the cry of the people, but was the effect of an excitation produced from some unworthy mo tive, and that it was not proceeding from the natural feelings of the people., so that that House ought to take notice of it. The whole of this pros vadol n the most fallacious noti► n of the state of the country and the condition of the people. If the representa tii es, too, of the people appeared in that House to state the grievances of their constituents, they were decried as exciters and agitators—(Hear, hear, hear) — and not only so, but the whole blame was either thrown upon the cause itself, or else upon the Members or Ministers who brought forward the complaints. When it had Leen so broadly stated that prosperity reigned throughout the county, and the Constitution was one of the happiest, he (Mr. G.) thought he might make some small inyui►y into the manner in which the House had performed its duties. Originally the House, as it was s►id was composed of two Boards—a Board of Trade and a Board of Taxation—which were afterwards united, and from that time the two, no doubt, formed the principal consideration of the House. Now it became the house to show, that in the discharge of its duties every attention had been paid to the expenditure of the public money, which it would be impossib!e for any H►•u. Memb-r or Hon. Baronet to slim bad been the case. Let the Hun, Barow.t opposite (Sir R. Peel) take the two hooks that were on the table-Lthe book of the pensions and the Ina of places, and say whether or not, from the state of those books, a Reform in Parliament was not loudly called for.—(Cheers.) The public money had been most wastefully expended, and taxation had been levied with the most oppressive hand. The House had been told too that there were already symptoms of reaction ; but be (Mr. G.) would be glad to know what those symptoms consisted. He believed that the reaction Was only known or its symptoms to the Hon. Ba ronet and a few others his side of the House. He present tionary measure, He (Mr. G ) wished to say nothing nu- civil to those who had so characterized it, but be really did not think that though they said so they entertained any such belief.—(Laughter.) If they had entertained this idea, why did they not oppose the very idea of it in the first instance, and why did they not mean ;to show their strength against it on the present occasio; ? Why did they not, as the Hon. Member for Waterford, a few nights ago, in allusion to another subject, had said —why did they not shew they would rather die . in the first ditch than submit to the introduction of such a measure into Parliament.—( Hear and laughter.)— The conduct of Ministers had been objected to also on the gound that there had been no deduction or com paratively no deduction made by them in the finance de partment, or in the taxes upon the people. It had been said there had been ne deduction made, but that of lopping off 62 Members from the number of representatives in the House of Commons. Considering the little use that some Members were of, he (Mr. G.) was not at all satisfied that the announcement of that deduction ought not to have been received with something like a shew of gra titude.—(Hear, hear, hear, and laughter.) In re gard to the Finance, there was a very wide defference, between the state of the Funds now and when the last Government were in office. The Funds were now some where about 70, and at that that time they were about 90• If they had been as high now as then, he entertained not a single doubt that:a considerable retrenchment would have been made by the present Government. Again the House had been told that this measure was to bring forward an Operation of nobelty—that they who supported it were novelists. Tuba however, had been to'erably set at rest last night by the Hon. Member for Westminster. Hai the Hon. and Learned igen.ber for Boroughbridge been in his:place, he should have asked him what set of men could base had the power to have made a law for the regula•ing all future ages as the then Parliamentary Representatives ? He was prepared to deny that any s •t of men, at any period, could have been, •or 'could be found ; and if there were to be novelty in the operation of the present measure, he voluntarily enrolled himself as au accessary to the failure if the fact that such a law as he had al luded to could at any time have been or be made. One of the benefits which would result from the proposed measure was one which ought to recommend it more than any other to the favour of the country—namely that the power of becoming a Member of Parliament was placed within the reach of every man in a respectable station of society. He was determined to take. his stand by this plan, because he thought it a full and effectual mea sure. He was not one of those who wished for an annual change of Parliament, nor for any experimental changes in the Constitution of the country. But when experience taught that the establisbei forms of the legis lature were far behind public intelligence; then he changes ought t i take place, and that too upon such v large scale, as would p.event popular excitement.—(Continued cheers.)—Although he approved of this change, he was free to apmit, that if at any future occasion the measure of the ballot should be introduced, he should oppose that and all other measures which might induce excitement and agitation. To those who said tb it there was more danger in going on than in st .nding still, lie would say in the words of Lord Bacon—" Time is the great innovator." Time, of course changes things for the want of wisdom, and canot, will not change them for the better, whatever be the end. LEFT SPEAKING. HOUSE OF LORDS. The LORD CHANCELLOR rose to presont 31 peti tions from different parts of the country on that subject which now occupied the attention of the whole nation— Reform in Parliament." It was his intention to follow the excellent example which had been adopted by Noble Lords, and retrain from entering into the discussion of this . most important subject till the matter came regularly before the House. He did so because he was convinced the subject would meet elsewhere the calm and deliberate discussion which a subject of such magnitnde and importance deserved. The Duke of BUCKINGHAM wished to know whe ther any of the petitions were in favour of the ballot. The LORD CHANCELLOR thought the Noble Puke was imposing an arduous. task upon him, but he }reeved very few of these were for the balot, being general* poor Scotch burghs, end he did not understand the subject of the ballot had made very great progres, in do. t part of the county, he would, however, read over the names of the petitiot s, by which the Noble Lord would probably be able to see what were in favour of the ballot and what not. His Lordship tl en read over the petitions, which were from St. Pancras, Detv,hury. Fife, Ludlow, Lyme Regis, St. Lukes, Rox borough, and twenty other places. Nhe Noble Lord apologised et a considerable length to the petitioner! for reading over the names of their petitions, in such a b ad roll sort of way, but he did so from an anxiety not to oc cupy the valuable tima of the House by reading them one by one. The Duke of NORFOLK rose to express the great gratitude he felt towards his M tjesty's Government for having brought forward so effectual a plan of Reform as was now under discussion in another place. He felt confident that would give general satisfact . on to the whole country. As a proof of that he need only advert to the meeting that had taken place of the Common Council of London and Westminster to express to his Ma jesty their high gratitude for what had been done. He was persuaded the measure would tend to allay those troubles the country had been labouring,—(Hear,)—and that when it was passed into a law, England would again see golden days. As an individual he might be supposed to sustain some loss from this measure on that score, he had no regret—(hear, hear)—if it were ten times as much he should glory in the sacrifice, if it tended to the liberties and happiness of the people.—(Hear, hear.) (LEFT SITTING.) SPIRIT OF THE PUBLIC JOURNALS. In the House of Lords, last night, Lord Farnham brought forward a complaint of breach of privilege, but, before his Lordship could proceed, it was observed that such complaints were not preferred while strangers were present. Strangers were theieupon excluded. The con duct complained of was understood to be the sending of a threatenis letter to hie Lordship, in consequence of proceedings regarding the " Wicklow Union." Indeed, it was added that personal indignities were de clared to be in store for the Noble Lord. Witnesses were examined, and the writing was identified. The consideration of the subject is to be resumed. Lord Cirnarvon, in presenting some Reform petitions, adverted to the " new Constittrion" which had been prepared by the Government; but Earl Grey complained of such de scription, and denied that any " new" Constitution was proposed--the old one was adhered to. Lord Wharnclitfe (for the purpose, it is understood, of gaining some inpr =fiat), or having some discussion on the Reform question) gave notice that on Monday he should move for various potiulation towns, &c., regal ding particular boroughs, &c. Lord King strongly eulogized the plans of Ministers; but the Duke af Wellington said he was at a loss to see how they could be carried consistently with the monarchical insti tutions of the country. Earl Grey replied that when the discussion came on he hoped to he able to show that the measures contemplated were better calculated to support the Monarchy than a Government sustained by corrup tion and patronage. The Marquis of Cleveland expressed his approbation of the principle of the measure.— ose a •l s t o i a lf s, a c t . . P Russell t d e i . l , c p u r s e s v i ( previously s l a y r 0 1 n n a the m ot ! (i o n: h i :n e m 'pdorefe.present by C n Lord population, the re-umptton of the adjourned debate), for returns respecting of boroughs proposed to be disfranchised, or reduced to ens Mem ber. Sir Charles Wetherell expressed great surprise that information of this nature should be called for after the plan had been brought forward,—it ought to have pre ceded or accompanied it, Lord J. Russell replied that, had he moved for such returns before he brought for ward the plan, the nature of his plan would have trans. pired before he could folly and regularly bring it for ward. Mr. Calcraft said he doubted whether the Noble Lord had known ally thing of the plan till within 24 hours of having to submit it to the House. Lord J. Russell answered that the great and leading outlines of the plan were imparted to him in the midle of Ja nuary last, and that the plan afterwards underwent little or no material alteration. Several Members viewed the iicpresentiit iomigobttioit to ahaysaenbeenpreviously after-thought, possessed to gain information w ;__where upon Mr. Slane) expressed a h ope t h at t h e House antltll country would mark the spirit in which the demand for inrormation was thus resisted. The opponents of the meat cure, he said, evidently feared . the light. Mr. Perceval said be was oat of that number ; he wished for -farther light, feeling assured it only required that the plan should be completely known to have it scouted by the House, Sir Henry Hardinge viewed the measure us " revolu tionary." Mr. Hobhuuse regrettei the use of such an expression by such a person, and declared that, what. ever the measure might be, it was called for by one half of the Aristocracy, and by the whole of the people. Sir H. Hardinge replied, that he had used the expression advisedly ; he considered the plan to be most revo lutionary, and calculated to :pull the Crown from the King's head. After much further conversation th e re- LONDON, FRIDAY EVENING, MARCH 4, 1831. The Debates of last night are full of interest and importance. The Boroughmongers and their dependents are, as might be expected, making desperate head against Reform, on the plea that it is synonimous with revolution. Mr. BANKES laboured hard to establish this fact, but was answered, point by point,.by Mr. HOBIIOUSE, in a speech that will not IA to make as deep an impression on the people, as it did upon the House. The Hon. Member for Westminster put the question of Reform upon its proper footing, when he declared that" sooner or later, and rather soon than late, a national convulsion would be the consequence of reject ing it." Lord PALMERSTON too, in one of the ablest speeches we ever read, inferred its necessity from the very fact of the people being naturally so averse to change. If, said his Lordship, the English character entertains such an instinctive abhorrence of innovation, how great—how imperative mtLA be the necessity for a change, when the country, from one end to the other, is clamouring for it in a voice of thunder ? And yet Sir H. HARDINGE, with all that intrepid assurance which belongs to profound ignorance, presumes to call the Reformers, Revolutionists ! Pray, who are the Revolutionists ? Those, who for the mere purpose of keeping up their illegal patronage, quartering themselves and their crea tures on the public, and perpetuating the mon strous abuses of the boroughmongermg sptem, would hazard the chance of a national convulsion; or those who by timely concession to the wishes of the people would avert so dreadful a calamity ? The real Revolutionists are the men who would eternise anarchy, not those who would allay it. In a word, the real Revolutionists are the Boroughmongers, and it is precisely because they are so, that we array our selves unequivocally against them. As well-wishers to our country, as advocates for the preservation of our social institutions, for the amelioration of the lower, and the just representative influence of the middle classes, we are warm friends to Reform. Were we lovers of anarchy and revo lution we should as warmly oppose it. Who, or what is it that has occasioned this universal clamour for Reform ? Who are the men, what the measures, that have made it a matter of such pressing necessity ? The answer is soon given. It is the Boroughmongers and their system. That party and that system which have drawn a • line of demarcation between those interests which should have been inseparable,—wllich have oppressed the many for the benefit of the few—and which, like rapa- . cious vermin, have for years kept gnawing and gnawing, and undermining the glorious edifice of the Constitution, till it absolutely threatens to tumble about their ears. In this tottering condition of a fabric wbich once was perfect in all its parts, and firm in its foundation, the Reformers step for ward. Like good workmen, they see at once the exigencies of the case : they see that t h e pillars are shaken ; that the timbers have got the dry rot ; that some parts of the edifice must be rebuilt, and some remodelled. Seeing this, they set boldly to work. But the rats cry out that they arc expelled ! The owls say that they are unjustly driven from their roosts ! True : but is time temple to be suffered to go to decay, in order that rats and . owls may still linger among the ruins? What - business had such vermin there ? Adopting the opinion of CICERO, Sir R. PEEL stated that, in order to form a perfect Constitu tion, it was necessary that it should consist of three fairly balanced parts—K lNG, Lords, and Commons. We cordially agree with the Right Hon. Baronet, and for this very reason claim his support as a reformer. It is absurd to say that in the Constitution, as it at present exists, the Commons,—that is, or should be, the people,— have their legitimate influence. An aristocratic oligarchy governs every thing. This is the first, this the second, this the third estate in the realm, and it is the main object of Lord *l. turns were ordered, extending to all boroughs in Eng land and Scotland, whether they sent Members or not. The adjourned debate was then resumed on the motion of Mr. G. Bankes; and, as it will be seen, it again conti nued to a late hour. Mr. "Baring addressed the House at great length, expressing regret that he flt himself bound to oppose the motion, as proposing a new Constitution. The Marquis of Tavistock supported it. After Lord Palmerston had urged the necessity of the measure, Sir R. Peel declared that he must resist it altogether, as one nut susceptible of mitigation. The motion was again ad. journed, on the motion of Sir J. Sebright.—Morn. Herald. PRICES OF STOCKS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Bank Stock - 3 per Cent. lied 3 per Cent.Cous. 75%!.i 6!i I ,i 14 j Ditto Bonds 4 5 put. 3l per Cent.. w 5 5 ,..; 'South Sea Stock Ditto Red. slint Old Annuities. - N •3' - Cep ..S4hi IA 5% New Ditto Aew 34per s...ent 3 per Cent Ann. 17ti .... —t3 per Cent. Ann. 1751 .... 4 per Cent. 151‘..N1 Bank Long Ann to expire Ditto . ...50'. Jau 5, 18 , 59 , shut Ditto Small 23 17 pm. Oct. 10, 1859 shut Ditto Commercial Jan. 5, 1800 - -1 Ditto Advertised ... ..... pm. Jan. 5, 1880 Bank for Account April 5, 1880 Jan. 5, 1870 =lcolndnl . forfr April l 3 Account .756 r v, i,f, li PRICES 07 FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAT AT 0141 O'CLOCK. Austrian Bonds — Neapolitan — Brazilian Bonds — Peruvian Bonds — Buenos Ayres Bonds Portuguese Bonds — Chilian Bonds — 'Prussian, Old ••• Colombian Bonds — 'Ditto, New 9O Ditto, 1824 t l6 Russian Bg Vanish Greek Bonds 1/43 — Ditto, 1825 Guatimala '---- Exchange —t. •• Mexican Bonds — :-- S per cent...„.. —t. —C. o.tto. 18273 — '— Exchange —f. —c. THE DEBATES ON REFORM. 'PULL, corrected, and analytical REPORTS of all the DEBATES on the Ministerial Measure of REFORM, with Tables of the wholly and partially Dis franchised Boroughs; the Names of the Sitting Members and Patrons ; th.!. Counties and Cities to be Enfranchised, or have their otiginal representation extended; together with a number of Original Articles, and a summary of Foreign and Domestic appear in CAR PENTER'S POLITICAL PAMPHLET, TO-MOR ROW Morning. This Pamphlet, with the supplemental addition of Eight Pages, will contain more printed matter than the Spectator. Price only 6d. The PORTRAIT of Mr. CONNELL, from B.lsit i W. finished steel engraving, 4to size, may still be 15ai1,,.-gra tuitously, with one of CARPENTER'S POLITICAL LETTERS. Office, 21, Paternoster-row; and sold by all Newsmen and Booksellers. L t x ,{.:•:: 4 - . r. "* p 4" Z, . • - gz -- '.4tFv., -„ Attn o ...-.., , i..- , -..- To NI RussELz's p fitting level, a l i a ld n troesrteodruectehethiesqiuniflliuberin; tont,thy, -faito4tb, three Powers. By his own admission, then:, 1: 4 44 0, we call on Sir R. PEEL to come forward, a „i t teitt assist the Reformers. On the people, call, but with far greater hopes of success. 4t4:i„u,' call on them, one and all, to rally round t 4 44 ; 8 1 Throne, to hasten forward to the suPP °4 f i N ge 'r } their own patriotic, disinterested We call on them to reflect on the a buses ° . l t 4 ;llh e t Pension List—on the unprincipled Gam e A NN's" e acil —on the system of monopoly that pervades and all things—in the full and perfect c onvic t° t r , ,h o al that this suggestion will not fail to g uide C ter! ° I 44 1 , 1 Ministeh: 4 1„„, to a prompt and correct decision. To ffili n- lt e . 0 " 1 Pt) d lye' we also say, be firm—be uncompromising . o u t not permit your plan to be thwarted, or crifril6, t 4e by vexatious, underhand opposition. Allg° °°. tkie ty ,? all sagacious—all patriotic citizens—All I °' N_Pt i 4 „ ' of peace and concord, and haters of s t° l . , d and revoluti o n ; — a ll th ese t o a man are 71 - ,1)41, 14 1:e' you. Go on then a nd c on q u er , and, bol l( TOIL 4 in dealing with the rotten boroughs, reject I "{i on of compensation a s a n affront to the? 7 4 : 1 ro ' rii NI t and dignity of your cause. Z he .ord gly, We hear reports - of public meetings ,r t heltieti e b te ' l ' held in all quarters of the Metropolis , w r ke ir L 4 o4, i t purpose of congratulating Ministers on t o r '' ) ,d by - ' full and efficient Reform Bill. The C 61 1" rivel Common Council have already met. k i:j t Z mi‘ ,.."it letter from Liverpool informs us that 0 , 0 0 14 loon, -1 tails of the Bill were no sooner made 1c11 ; 0 at the Exchange-room i n t h a t influentiatli than they were welcomed with three ' ‘ l cheers ! Many towns and counties are alre e° in motion. 4 1 / 4 1 4:1, 1 : 4 , ear 4 Po t 1' of 41' t 144 eat th in . e 41 0 : 14 1 th `4 iht has th e n ir c ‘4O/ The French Papers contain little imPTAit intelligence; They are chiefly taken 01; td the particulars of a Royal Ordinance r elsav the increase of the army. The Brussels Papers, in an article date the frontiers of Poland, st a t e th a t the 1 0 it elp. are approaching Warsaw in a half : s o* advance daily, and p resen t close w 01 which force the Poles to retire mor e more. They also mention that the fo t ! Poland will probably be decided in a II i 1 9 battle, which will be fought under the 01 Praga and Warsaw : RU We Baron Surlct de Chokier, Rege ß ntof SS l: l..:lllll' Art. 15 of the Constitution, have decreed and decree :-••• Minister of War, M. Goblet. Minister of Finance, M. Charles de Brouckere. Minister of the Interior, M. Tielmans. ...7pcef . Minister of Foreign Affairs, M. Sylvain Van de v•-• ,• :Minister of Justice, M. Alexander Gendebien. ttil o r, Feb. 24, 1831. E. SUBLET M. de Gerlache, President of the National D Co E ng C re g is ° , l7 President of the Council of Ministers. It is affirmed that M. Plaisant, Ex-Administrator of Pad M Advocate-General in the Tribunal of Mussels, is are cretary of the Council of Ministers, with an additional 4, 2,000 flofirs. - ' Ord A French Cabinet messenger passed through heye a r ii r Paris noon, proceeding with all speed from to the he ' with despatches for General Daine. rAilltd \ `BRUSSELS, 1% gor , M. Vanderlinden is appointed Cabinet Secretary to th e-- elit' 4 1, :, '4B The discussions in the Congress on the ''7th and 28th el 0 , ~ H I are of little importance. The Prussian State Gazette of the 24th February has " o ~ IN tini fr, m Po'and. S" 't Pr k t) The following article is extracted from Maude and AN D , Berlin Gazette:— s le d 11 . tra4 FRONTIERS OF POLAND, FEB. 18.—The polo'', rp . ,4,-iat it i 70,G00 men and 120 pieces of cannon is stationed beteiceitrll4l D l4 and Modlin, with the Vistula in its rear, and the llealii dr • I ;' , Ap - are at Jablonna, two (German) miles from Warsaw. _ l4 e . ,rop,i, tions with the enemy, of which the Warsaw Jouroc ii , Vtittg n e have taken place in a circle round Warsaw, which doea tiel, o ft r , tend more than eight or nine miles from that city, an try*"ti t i ° l' I tween the Narew and the Vistula. The place wher e l l _4o' 1. 1 'ecti( actions took place were Rozan on the Narew. 04. - nt, c on between the Narew and the Bug, Kaluszyth ,„ 010 A Mice to and Briszow, on the Vistula. The wh,_°lo`TrAti -te, to the east of this circle, that is to say nearly half the Dep t , YAft, is already subject to the Russians, and can no longer 0 10 4 tkid ~ use to the insurgents. General Dwerniecki affirms that he had a. battle ° cid ki l Ile " xt i Stoczeek and Scroczyn, with four regiments of Rug-6 1 10e befo re and two brigades of artillery. It seems certain thal on DI , di ll , ,_ f more serious fighting there than elsewhere, but no ac' es is' , C ul taken place which can have any influence on the pr4V. p ait i el • ' Russian operations. The Russians are approaching r i i e li half circle, advance daily, and present close masses, e , 0 0 the Poles to retire more and more. The fate of Poland will probably be decided 111 ,40 , It battle which will•be fought under. the walls of ~,";4 0 0' sr Warsaw. Several Polish civil officers have fled to Ll' h i l ifdal, Prussia. They relate that many thousand cossacks,. 00Y peared first at Kalwary ; they waited for the arrival t er a . y, sari before they advanced. The Poles, who opposed 1",,,, i0 11 1 ° number, as it is said, of 2,000 men, dispened afte r ! . 1 41 ceived some vollies of grape shot, and the Russiall'oe prisoners except some officers. The Russians took ' prisoners near Grodno. t 2 1 ° LISBON.—The Lisbon Gazettes froM the 14th 1. inclusive, contain no particular news relative to Port g Ittt ur ge r :a ~lA o , t herrl e of ti 1% t ' JeA r e ,, p t)d s lk e Pa l `gre e d 4, 4 1 ' t de r e d, 4 , 3 ° l i g y rled or ; er t e h les 44'i do A;tteler' ti: "1 8a; h tt Pu bli,l p La nd .11 t3 N7 st t o , v LIT CLARE ELECTION.-(THIS 091 The Committee decided this day that Mr. (YGorliatf,,ll Election was roid t on the ground of bribery and corru i . c otir .. " administered by his friends and agents. There Will of a new election. THE MARKETS.-(THIS DAY•) CORN EXCIIIAN6E b's 'f e j There are small arrivals of most kinds of . Grain i t og i a ve H 4 and not much Flour. The duty on foreign Wheat b e t 0.43 1, there are rather more samples of foreign showing ba t ~0 the trade for such is du'l to-day at Monday's terms.! _ w er: A Wheat is very scarce, and fully maintains its to' sa no,, i sr Malting Barley is unaltered, Grinding is lower. 13 °14, .."- remain as on Monday. The Oat trade is not brisk, u be reported any lower. Flour unaltered. ARRIVALS. OA Wheat. I Barley. I Oats. 9, . English ..... 1,415 qrs. 2,985 qrs. 8,250 71 ... .:eyfi 1. Irish — 8,630 .." i ' Foreign - co p, For t GENERAL Week e A nd V ed E AVERAGE E 25. P 1 R 83 1 0 C , PRICE. made B u p R l a T o l i n i ii .o e $ 0 , of the Inspectors in the di fINAYI Cities anti Towns i __.4 oi. and Wales, per Imperial Quarter. Wheat....-735. 10d.1 Oats ....—.... 265. &L Beans ,,, '7: lod Barley 421 . ocl.l Rye .......—.. 50s. 5d I Pease c , s_C ‘i , 5, IMPERIAL AGGREGATE AVERAGES OF TIIE SIX' WEE , " - __,U.,17: r Wheat.......... 735. 2it 1 Oats ......... 265. 64.1 Beans,'" -- or A Barley 425 . Od.l Rye ............ 465. 94.1 Pease""""' '• 'I DUTIES ON FOREIGN CORN. 1/°. r Wheat,......... Is. 011 Oats ........... 7s. 9d.1 Beans"'""' Barley...—, Is. 011 Rye Is. 01 Pesse,'''s ) THE FUNDS.—(THIS DAI r • oC z CITY, TWELVE 0i cy e%r- n ett — The French mail and the Dutch steamer are Aji it hour to arrive; we are also without ship letters. eb ,lool Port-au-Prince Papers have been received at ' o pts°. r. South American Coffee-House, but they do not c otee formation worth givin 31 10 We this moment hear g. that the Dutch steamer ho oil' brings the Dutch Funds per cent. higher. Tlnost. o t state that there is a great want of provisions In %v 0 ,0 1 _ 4 p THE FUNDS. this o f,o o The Consol Market has been greatly agitated r t he fo r ' Consols which left off' yesterday at 75Y 2 f Lri opened this morning at the same price, bu w - s nu o i 75I i i for money, after which a reaction took Pl 3ce ot t diatelv rose to 7534 for the Account, bet at pro o f again . declined to 7534 %. if O i ; e HALF-P. 4 0 . 4-1 04 Extract of a private letter from Lisbon, Fe t _l i ' vilsi c eo 9 ,s lr tions and imprisonments have again commenetr, a ." 3 l4 / 0 11 cuted with great vigour. several re,speetahle i rtfi e • • ,a 'l4 fallen victims, and no one considers himself r* • pr ft. prevails, and no business doing." n itn; Plb e lo o ,s The extreme fluctuation i n C onso l s this rectr- D in% , nr j ward§ of I per cent. I n th e ear l y p ar t o f them l or the r 75 , A, and at present they may be quoted at 76ra e rne iP There are various re p or t s f or th e above in i gT e r Ce IL private express from Paris brings the French cent. higher, 50f. 25c. e j. The French mail ha s n o t y e t arr i ve d. In the foreign m ar k et lit t l e or not hi ng doing , ,p f i _ d 2'1:111E- 8 ° Consols, 76-a. RI 06 FOUR O'CLOCK. —CLOSIIs p G ... Consols Danish. .... 4,..0 a Ditto for Account 76Gre e k, I tl* "00. 113 4 Brazilian Bonds 57 Buenos Ayres — u viatt Chilian Ditto Columbian 1824 16 P S I Ville p :r a s •'• '' ''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' PARLIAMENTARY ItEF010" „, 04 b a tes (1.• of jog longest but the best lipport for the De , r i ng eh . 1 Question, will appear in the Sunday ' by I. o ' ll ol, fts the 6th. All the alterations pro Pos ed (ie .a so $ 0 4 1,0 RUSSELL will be found correctly stay- cso that at one glanc e of th e r ye, the reade r ro b4 sie goi_t r to that portion of the plan in which he the drer f e terestc.l: .4.1 few pan spare time t° Tea itol° 6 A r ° sew 1 0 reports already published, this impar tia l e P 00 1 A . et with great labour, in which every suPe. r • i x o die pressed, must be valuable to every P° l the world. Ot yOv- , PRINTED rAN.,N OFFICE, D st PuiLIsu 1 a w, l' S3ITAR:OI),Cto.4O°. isuon