The Sun. — London, England, 1861-07-09 00:00:00

IMPERIAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS—YESTERDAY. The LORD Cua.NcELLon took his scat on the woolsack at five o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Eastern Counties Railway ; London, Chatham, and Dover (Lease to Margate) Railway ; Monmouth Railway and Canal (New Lines); Stourbridge Railway (Extension); Worcester, Bromwich, and Leominster Railway ; West Hartlepool Harbour and Railway; Ware, Hadhasi, and Bantingford Railway ; Bishop's Stortford, !Dunmow, and B ra intreeßailway,CorkandMacroomßailway, Aberystwith and West Coast Railway, Somerset Central Railway, and Conway Llanrwest Railway Bills were read a second time. GALWAY HARBOUR. On the motion that the Galway Harbour Bill be read a second time, The Marquis of CLANRICARDE said the bill was in substance to enable the commissioners of the Galway Har bour to raise a sum of money, the interest of which might be paid by means of a rate not exceeding one penny in the pound, to be levied on the whole county. The assent of the ratepayers of the county had been given to the bill before the subsidy of the Govern ment to the Mail Packet Company had been with drawn, and therefore it could not be said that the ratepayers had given their consent to the measure being proceeded with in the altered state of affairs. He thought that, under all the circumstances, the measure ought to be withdrawn. The Earl of CLANCARTY strongly objected to the bill. lie wished their lordships would reject it altogether in pre ference to allowing it to be withdrawn. The measure was then withdrawn. THIRD READINGS. The Hemsworth Estates, South Staffordshire Railway, Londonderry and Lough Swilly Railway, and Airdale Drainage Bills were read a third time and passed. FIRST READINGS. The Industrial Schools (Scotland), and the Inclosure Bills were read a first time. SUBDIVISION OF BENEFICES BILL. Lord LYTTELTON said as the bill now stood it was open to him or any noble lord to move that it be proceeded with, but as far as he was concerned he should not take any steps towards doing so during the present session— neither did he feel disposed to bring the subject under the consideration of their lordships again. EDUCATION. The NOBLE LORD then proceeded to ask the President of the Council whether the Government intended to pro pose any measure in Parliament, or to issue any minutes of the Committee of Privy Council on Education, in pur suance of the report of the Education Commissioners. His lordship then proceeded to say that the object which he had in view was to ascertain if her Majesty's Government in tended, on the recommendation of the Commissioners on Education, to make any alteration in the mode by which the Committee of Council made grants towards the main tenance of schools ? Their report was, no doubt, a reason able one, but still there were portions of it to which he ob jected, and he doubted if any of her Majesty's Government had read through the five volumes in which it was con tained. The recommendations of the commissioners were of a twofold character. One class of recommendations could not be carried out without the interference of Parlia ment, but the Committee of Council might by its minute put any of the other class into immediate action. He en tirely approved of all the commissioners stated in reference to evening schools, educational endowments, pauper schools, and State schools, bat he did object to the proposal that these schools were to be supported by a county or a borough rate. One important matter they had now to decide was, whether, in regard to pauper schools, Boards of Guardians should be required to send the paupers to schools apart from the workhouse, instead of prohibiting them, as was the spirit of the old law. According to Denison's Act, a law passed under the direction of the present Speaker of the House of Commons, the Boards of Guardians could give pauper children :education along with relief; but as the matter was left optional with them, the enactment had be come a complete dead letter. He found, on examination, that some of the recommendations with respect to the rate at which the teachers were to be paid for each child educated in a school under the proposed system of a county or borough rate were most contradictory. His great objection, however, to the proposed s) stem of rating was, that it held out great benefits on very low conditions, and he could not regard that as good policy. The recom mendation that the education to be afforded the public schools under the management of the Committee of Council should consist only of reading, writing, and arithmetic, would, if adopted, be equivalent lo discarding all certifi cated masters and mistresses, and pupil teachers. It was also proposed that the certificates should have no pecuni ary, but only a honorary value. By the first recommenda tion the school managers would be left to make their own terms with the teachers ; and the second recommendation, if carried out, in reference to those who are now actually teachers, would amount to a serious breach of public faith. He wished to know, in the event of that recommendation being carried out, if it were to be purely protective or not ? He agreed with Mr. Chadwick that there should be some alteration in the school hours, to give time for the physical training of the children. Although the commissioners, in their report, took into consideration the state of those schools established under the Factories Act, he regretted to find that they had not considered the education of those children engaged in the unregulated trades, with respect to whom, Mr. Senior stated that the slaves in South Carolina were less tortured and better fed. They were brought as young as two years old to aisist in the manufacture of hard ware and lace. Earl GRANVILLE, in reply, said he would leave to his noble friend the Secretary for the Colonies (the Duke of Newcastle), who had been one of the commissioners to defend the recommendations of the report itself, while he would confine himself to the task of answering the noble lord's questions. With respect to the intention of her Ma jesty's Government to base any measure upon those recom mendations which required the action of Parliament, he had to state that they had not as yet so thoroughly con sidered those recommendations as to feel justified in pro posing any alteration in the existing law; but with re spect to those recommendations which depended for their adoption upon the action of the Committee of Council he would very soon, he hoped, be able to lay upon their lot d ships' table a minute which would remedy some of the diffi culties which were found in the administration of the pre sent system, and also meet a great and crying evil by extending Government assistance to those schools in poor districts which could not come up to the present require ments of the committee council, although he did not pro• pose that it should be at once carried into effect. Lord BROUGHAM expressed himself highly pleased with the ability displayed by the Commissioners in their re port, and also with the course which her Majesty's Govern ment was about to pursue in the matter. He had for a long time past been in favour of having the schools maintained by a parish rate, and had introduced into Parliament two bills based upon his views. He agreed with Mr. Chadwick that the school hours should be subdivided, and one part of them set aside for physical exercise, such as military drill. Forty years ago he had stated that the schoolmaster was abroad, and last year he added to that another diction to the effect that the workmaster was abroad also, and often greatly interfered with the free action of the schoolmaster. The short time system, however, counteracted a large por tion of the evil. He regretted that the Commissioners had entirely overlooked the question of middle-class education —a question upon which he had last year presented as many as 120 petitions, signed b y 40,000 persons, He would wish to see extended to those sch oo l s the privilegeofGo vernment inspection. The children. of the class immed iatel ybelow them had the benefit of 5 ,000 train e d masters ed mistresses, and of 16,000 pupil teachers. The Duke of NE WCASTLE said it was most gratifying to him to hear the observations which had been made in re ference to the report both by the noble and learned lord, and also by his noble friend who had introduced this sub ject to their lordships' consideration ; and he would now proceed to reply briefly to their objections. The noble and learned lord complained that the subject of middle-class education had been omitted from the report of the commis sion, but that did not arise from any want of appreciation in their eyes of its importance, but simply because it had not been included within the scope of their inquiry. With respect to the other omissions complained of, namely that they had made no recommendations with respect to the edu cation of children engaged in the unregulated trades, they did not feel that they were the proper persons to call for the extension of the Factories Act, especially as the master tradesmen in the lace trade were themselves asking for it. With regard to those schools which were dependent upon charitable funds, they found that those funds wore, for the most part, grossly misapplied. It was perfectly true, as stated bythe noble lord, that Denison's Act, enabling boards of guardians to remove pauper children from the cont mina tion of the workhouses had become a dead letter, because of the option which it gave them, and it was desirable that the spirit of that enactment should be carried further. The commissioners never contemplated abrogating the system of e)etmining into the religions training of the children in the Church of England Schools, which would continue pre cisely as tmore, but they would limit the duties of the Go van:molt inspc%fors of schools to ascertaining the ext ent Of their secular kno , d.dge, leaving it to the diocesan in epietor the duty of inqulilve into the religious training. It Was not intended that the certificate of the teacher should have no pecuniary value, but it was proposed to Place the grants in the hands of the school managers, and leave them to make their own bargain with the touchers. The efficiency of the schools was the first subject which the commiesi mers had in view, and tb ey were of opinion that after all, the certificate was not tb.e proper test of the ability of a teacher. Mr. Cook, one of the Government inspectors, stated that he, in his district, found that those who were the best teachers had either no cot tificate at all, or, at most, very low ones. In proposing du) county rate they had three important objects in view ; Emit, to simplify the business of the office; secondly, to ob via to the poss ibility of the House of Commons, in one of its cold fits, cutting down the educational est imate one half, which would have the effect of breaking up the whole sys tem of education; and the third and chief s object it +. bring into the general school, at system all the public ts . ch w -- present untwisted, and also the private schools, The assisted schools were 6,897, having an attendance of 917,555 children, whereas there were 15,952 unassisted public schools, attended by 654,233 pupils, and in all there were 1,800,000 children in schools which derived no assis tance whatever from Government. In the diocese of Oxford, containing 339 parishes, there were only 24 assisted schools; in Hereford, having 130 parishes, there were only 5 such schools ; and in Somersetshire, which contained 280 parishes, there was only ono school which received aid from Government. He generally defended the justice and policy of a county rate for educational purposes, and read lengthened extracts from the report of the commissioners to rebut the charge made in another place to the effect that they had disregarded the importance of a sound religious training. After a few words from the Bishop of BATH and WELLS in reference to the inspection of schools, the subject dropped. THE DUKE OF MODENA. The Marquis of NORMANDY postponed to Friday week his motion with respect to the vindication of the Duke of Modena. BOUNDARIES BILL. This bill was read a second time. VOLUNTEERS EXEMPTION FROM TOLL BILL. On the motion of Lord LLANOVER this bill was read a aecond time. ANNOYANCE JURY (WESTMINSTER) BILL. Lord LLANOVER moved the second reading of this bill. Earl POWIS wished to see the administration of the penal portion of this bill left in the hands of the police magistrates. Lold LLANOVER said the bill was approved of by the Dean of Westminster and the Duke of Bucoleuch, who was lord of the manor. He would, however, when the bill was committed, be prepared with amendments to meet the ob jections of the noble lord. The bill was then read a second time, and their lordships adjourned at 20 minutes past 8 o'clock. HOUSE OF COMMONS — (YESTERDAY.) The SPEAKER took the chair at four o'clock. PRIVATE BUSINESS. The Lords' amendments to the Greetwell District Drain. age Bill and Manchester and Milford Railway (Aberystwith Branch) Bill were considered and agreed to, The amendments of the Lords to the Grand Junction Water Bill were also agreed to. The Tylde Water Bill was read a third time and passed. The Blackburn Water Bill and the Devon Railway Bill were considered and ordered fer third reading. The Atkinson's Trust Estate Bill (Lords) was read a second time. PETITIONS. Some petitions were presented from Dublin for the re storation of the Galway subsidy, for opening the Museum and other public institutions on Sundays, for the Suppres sion of Sunday trading in intoxicating liquors, for amend ing the laws relating to the removal of the poor, &c. INDUSTRIAL SCHOOLS (IRELAND). Mr. DAWSON asked the hon. member for Dungarvan whether it was his intention to move the second reading of the Industrial School (Ireland) Bill this day; and if not, whether he would state his future intentions with respect to that bill. Mr. MAGUIRE said that he did not propose to proceed with the Industrial Schools (Ireland) Bill, but that it was his intention to reintroduce it next session. [On tho mo tion of the hon. and learned gentleman later in the evening the order for the second reading of the bill was discharged.] THE CASE OF REBECCA KEARNEY. Mr. HENNESSY asked the Lord Advocate if he had ascertained whether, in the compulsory removal of Rebecca Kearney from Glasgow to Ireland, the several proceedings required by law were duly fulfilled ? The LORD ADVOCATE said that he had received a report of the proceedings in this case, and he believed that they were quite regular, but they would be laid on the table. THE FOREIGN OFFICE. Lord ELCHO moved that, in the opinion of this house, it is not desirable that the new Foreign-office should be erected according to the Palladian design now exhibited in a committee room of the house. The noble lord said that the plan of this office was to all intents and purposes the design of the Prime Minister. He said that it had been decided that this office should be open to European com petition, and 200 plans were sent in. A committee was appointed to make a selection, and premiums were awarded to seven of these designs. The noble lord then proceeded to relate the subsequent proceedings in reference to the subject until the adoption of the Palladian plan by Mr. Scott, who consented to be draughtsman of the Prime Minister, who had a horror of Gothic architecture. He had referred to the debate that had taken place on this question, and he did not think they were conclusive in favour of the adoption of the Palladian or Italian design. It had been asserted by the hon. member for Bath (Mr. Tite) that Gothic architecture gave only a minimum of con venience at the maximum of cost. No doubt that was true, but it arose from:the abuse of Gothic architecture. The hon. member had also said that the new office should harmonise with the genus loci, but what was meant by that he did not clearly understand. The hon. gentleman said the office should harmonise with Montague -house, but though that might be a pretty building he believed it was not so popular as to induce the public to wish the Foreign office to be in harmony with that edifice. The noble lord at the head of her Majesty's Government described the Gothic architecture as being inapplicable to a public office, which should be gay and airy outside and light inside. With respect to light, it could be proved that it would give all the light that was required. The Gothic style of architecture afforded facilities for introducing consi derable variety—the brick which abounded in this country could be used for it with effect. Having referred to the failures in the materials of which the houses of Parliament were constructed, as well as to Buckingham Palace and the Bank of England, he adverted to the buildings on the Continent, and drew a comparison between them and these in this country, favourable to the former. He called on the house not to sanction the proposal of the noble lord (Lord Palmerston). Mr. C. BUXTON seconded the motion, and said that he did not want to disparage the talent of Mr. Scott, but the fact was that that gentleman's genius lay in Gothic architecture, and he highly approved of his Gothic design. He thought if Mr. Scott was to be the architect, he should be allowed to select the style of archi tecture for which his genius was suited. It had been said that Gothic architecture was unsuited to secular build ings, and that it did not afford sufficient light. That defect, he contended, arose from the adoption of imperfect Gothic designs, and the plan in that style of Mr. Scott was entirely free from these defects. He called on the noble lord (Lord Palmerston) to sacrifice generously his own pre dilections, and consult the taste of the rising instead of the setting generation. Mr. COWPER denied that the feeling of the public was in favour of the Gothic as contrasted with the Italian style of architecture. Ha founded that opinion on the statements of persons competent to judge on this subject, and they were in favour of Mr. Scott's Italian design, which they considered by far the best that had been submitted to competition. It was a proof of Mr. Scott's genius that he had been so successful in a style of architec ture different to that in which he had previously excelled. It was not, as had been alleged, that the plan was drawn up in conformity with the directions of his noble friend at the head of the Government, but in accordance with what had been considered public opinion. He proceeded at some length to vindicate the selection of the Italian style. He contended that if the Foreign-office was even built in the Italian style it would harmonise with the surrounding buildings, including the other Government offices, and would realise from that harmony an effect which could not be produced by a structure wh ch, different in style, must be tested merely by its own intrinsic merit, and without any reference to congruity. (Hear, hear.) Mr. LAYARD said it must excite surprise that, in the 19th century, so little progress was made in this country in the science of architecture. He thought that the archi ture which was required in the present day was that which would admit' most light and air. (Hear, hear.) lie contended that the Gothic architecture supplied these desiderata, He strongly objected to the Palladian style " b t e a ing m nea s n, bat he did not mean to attri butefame in another de partment, cot % who any blame had acquired his as to monotonyill in no distinction. He strongly denounced the acquiredadherence for a style in which he hadanshould not be selected buildings, and referred to Paris disagreeable effect of that monotony. He took k tion of the public occasion observe that the style of public buildings m d o t. to cated the p o litical condition of a p eop l e, and ,ke would at once have recognised in Paris a Government of despotism. (Oh, oh.) Hon. members might dissent, but he had seen an instance of what he asserted, for while he was passing up the Rue Rivoli, he saw the whole of the street scaffolded, and on making inquiry f oun d that the Government had ordered the tenants to scratch their outsides. (Laughter.) He called on the house not to repeat a mistake similar to what had been done in respect to the Houses of Parliament. In that case they selected an Italian architect to build a Gothic was building, and now it proposed to select a Gothic architect for an Italian building. He concluded by expressing a hope that the plan of Mr. Scott would be submitted to a select committee before it was decided on by the house (Hear, hear.) Mr. TITE eulogised the style of the Palladian architec ture and the plan of Mr. Scott. All the best architects were in favour of an Italian style. lle thought that the matter could safely be left in the hands of the Government. Lord J. MANNERS quoted the result of the inquiries of the committee three 3 ears ago, who, after a prolonged exa mination, reported that in respect a convenience and ven tilation no material difference existed between either style. He contended that the original arrangements, which placed in the hands of the greatest Gothic architect in Europe, Mr. Scott, the erection of a Gothic building, ought to be maintained. All over the country the Gothic style for public buildings was ad op t e d , and by those who could not be classed as architectural reactionists. Mr. B. OSBORNE would promise the house one thing, that he would not say a word about architecture. (Hear, and laughter.) And when the noble lord, in the innocence of his heart, deprecated this being ramie a party question, it might not be made a party question in the sense of par tieb in the house; but he took upon himself to say that since the celebrated Montague and Capulet feud there had been no feud like that between the Palmerstonian and Lombardo- Gothic styles of architecture. (Laughter.) But he did not intend to enter into these disputes at all. In the matter upon which he wished t o speak one building had been found wanting. Let them look to the much-praised building in which they were assembled. The estimate of the expense was £750,000, and it had actually cost 21 millions. And gentlemen talked about the different styles, about the hori zontal and the perpendicular—(laughter)—when the coun try was looking to the question what would the building cost? (Hear.) It happened that in 1855 Mr. Pennethorne, the architect and surveyor of the Board of Works, was called upon to submit a plan for the new Foreign-office ; and what was the estimate for his plea ? It was £60,000 for the building and £30,000 for the purchase of the site ? But the House of Commons of that day was so singularly spar ing of the public money that when they were called upon an(tHiet' and voted £lO,OOO for ar.) But what was the r fo a r te t h h i i n s g vo u t p e t t h h e e y o r l e d fu bu se a d di t n o g gr s. estimate of the money they were called upon to provide for this building ? It was £200,000. But did the house believe it would be builtfor that,whatever stylewas adopted. (Hear.) He did not think the question had been properly treated by the house. When the competition for the design was thrown open it was thrown open to all the world, and £5,000 pre mium was offered for the best design. The first premium was awarded to Messrs. Coe and Holland, and the second on the lists were Messrs. Bankes and Barry, but in conse quence of Mr. Scott, who had, it was true, an European celebrity as a Gothic architect, being secured for furnishing the plans of the Foreign and War-offices, Mr. Scott was, by some curious hocus pocus, put forward between the two gentlemen who obtained the first premiums and the noble lord (Lord J. Manners), who was a devotee in the Gothic school. (Hear.) If the house were to treat this subject pro perly some one would move an amendment and say " a plague on both your houses." (Laughter.) Reject both the Pal merstonian and the Scott plan, re-open the question, and give the building to the man who gained the first premium. (Hear.) He expressed no opinion upon either style—he was so afraid of being a party to the enormous expense which was about to be incurred. He thought the whole question ought to be re. opened, and that these gentlemen ought to have the benefit of the position which they had fairly gained in 1:?55. He should take no part in the division, but he ad vised the house to be on its guard and remember always that the estEnate for the houses of Parliament was £750,000, and the actual cost £2,500,000. They were the worst build ing committee in the world, and they stood disgraced in the eyes of Europe as men of business. (Oh, oh, and Hear.) The cost of this undertaking would, he believed, in like manner swell into a million, and if any gentleman would move that both plans be rejected, and the thing thrown open as at first, he should be happy to vote for it ; bat he would say nothing of the merits of the Palmerstonian style, the Manners style, or the Gothic. (Hear.) Lord PA LMERSTON—The battle of the books, the battle of the big. endians and the little-ondians, the battle of the green ribands and the blue ribands were as nothing compared with this battle of the styles. (A laugh.) But 1 must say I think that if I was to pronounce an impartial verdict as to the issue, I should say that the Gothic has been entirely defeated. (Laughter.) The noble lord who sits opposite made it a reproach to me that whereas he, an ardent and enthusiastic devotee, as my hon. friend has called him, of the Gothic, appointed Mr. Scott as architect, superseding those who had won the highest prizes, and therefore step ping out of the way of proper selection—that whereas he appointed him—l will not say solely and entirely, be cause Mr. Scott has great professional merits, but merely because he was versed in Gothic architecture—that on that account, I who succeeded him, differing with him in opinion as to the style, but out of deference to Mr. Scott's vested claims, having conferred upon him the appointment of architect, I was obliged to adopt, therefore, not only the architect, but the style of the noble lord. That is certainly requiring a great deal too much by a person who leaves office of the person who comes in his place. (Hear, hear.) I have heard it made a reproach to a new Government that they have adopted the measures of their predecessors, but I think it ought to be no reproach to me that I did not follow their example in the present instance. (Hear, hear.) The noble lord laid stress upon what he asserted to be the pre vailing taste as exemplified by the practice of the country. He mentioned large towns, but he forgot that some of the noblest edifices in those large towns are in the Italian style. He talked of Liverpool, but he forgot the St. George's-hall. Lord J. MANNERS was understood to say that he had not alluded to Liverpool. Lord PALMERSTON—The noble lord took good care not to mention it. (Cheers and laughter.) He mentioned Manchester, but made no allusion to the Free. trade Hall, a splendid building in the Italian style. He spoke of Leeds, but he has forgotten that building which is the greatest ornament of the town of Leeds, and which is also in the Italian style. (Hear, hear.) Here are three buildings of great magnitude, costing large sums of money, erected lately by the people of these towns, and surely these are in dications of what the taste and opinion of the people are. (Hear, hear.) But the noble lord went further, and wanted to saddle upon Edinburgh, the modem Athens—upon Edinburgh, which he determined to adorn, the Calton Hill, with an imitation of the Parthenon—not satisfied with the Italian, but going back to the Greek—the noble lord wanted to throw upon Edinburgh the imputation of having been converted to the Gothic style. (Laughter.) I call upon every Scotch member to say whether that is not a gross libel upon the taste of the community. (Loud laugh ter.) Then objections have been made upon the ground that these plans have no originality, and it is said in the first place that it is not a national style—that the Italian style, I will not call it the Palladian, but the Roman elan-• sical, is not national. Well, is the Gothic national ? (Hear, hear.) I never heard much of the Goths and Vandals and Saracens doing much in this country. (Laughter.) I have been told in my early days that the Romans were in this country for a considerable number of years, and it is pro bable therefore that they have a better claim to have estab lished in this island some style of architecture which may be considered English, than those who never came here at all. (Laughter.) But my noble friend talked about what was,the real ancient architecture of England. Why, my hon friend who followed him thought that Stonehenge might be considered as a specimen of the ancient architecture of the country. (Laughter.) But I would go further, and say that the real aboriginal architecture of this country was mud , huts and wicker wigwams —these were the original styles of those who first inhabited this island. (Loudlaughter.) And when we talk of Gothic bring practised at certain periods, so has Italian. When we are asked what is the national character, we might, I think, very reasonably ask the ques tion upon which it must very much depend, namely, who have been the most distinguished architects of the country and what style did they practise ? We have had Vanbrugh, of whom truly it has been said he laid heavy loads on earth, but who has given us fine buildings in the Roman and Grecian style. We have had also Sir Christopher Wren and Inigo Jones—great men, who have erected great edifices to excite admiration to the present day. (Hear, hear.) Do not tell me, then, that Gothic is the characteristic architecture of the country. (Hear, hear.) If there was one character more prevalent than another it was the castellated man sions ; but they were erected for purposes of defence. We find them all over the country ; but the reason they were erected has ceased to exist, and we may, therefore, I think, dismiss that style with alias inconveniences. (Hear, hear.) My hon. friend says there is nothing so light as Gothic, on account of the number of windows you can introduce. But we have heard of the Great windows that exclude the light ; And passages that lead to nothing. (Cheers and laughter.) And these were after tho Gothic style. Then my noble friend has very kindly invited me to take a morning drive—which I am unable to accept—through the streets of London, to test the public taste, forgetting all those fine buildings, Somerset-house, St. Paul's Cathe dral— An HoN. MEMBER—The Post-office. Lord PALMERSTON—Yes, the Post-office, and several others. Why, it is very much as if a gentleman should drive through the streets of Rome, and seeing a number of children with arms dislocated and legs out of joint exhi bited as beggars for the profit of their parents, should say, " These are the tastes and habits of the Roman people," forgetting all the while the many stout, well-conditioned, able-bodied men he may have met—(laughter) and should say, " Let us make our children like the people of Rome, for these are the tastes of the Roman people." (Renewed laughter.) My noble friend reverses the boast of the Roman emperor, " I found it of brick and left it stone," and would make these buildings of brick. Well, we all know what colour brick turns after a certain exposure to London smoke. I am afraid to quote an Italian authority against it because Ido not admit Italian taste; but I will quote what was said to me by Canova, a man versed in arts, and supposed to be a good judge in these matters. He said, "If London , were only widened it would be a real Paradise." (Hear.) But instead of making it a real Paradise my noble friend doubt it as w t a: ve r wellall h t u h u e w u s t r e t e h t u s t . er (Cheers roi w a a s n d infinitel laugh.) g h a t n e r d . wouldwuula make it a real some thi ng e l se, b y th e g l oom i ness h e simple. th Good t as t e was simple and bad 'd ) tru N th o therefore it is p er h aps that G th' taste infinite, an (Laughter.) But the invention nothing olc admits of infinite variety. ofsomene will satisfy my hon. f r iend but Marsh, a great archit ect, tried order th of architecture. Mr. o succeed. 'We all remember the story experiment' walking along Regent -street while but did not t w of oo t h he . fentleman struck with something very irregular in one o u f ' t t h li e n l g t , houses being constructed, said to the clerk of the works, " N o Vh . y es , good heavens 1 what order do you call it ?" to which - he got the reply, "It is Mr. Marsh's positive order." (Much laughter.) I should like to see the positive order of my noble friend. (Renewed laughter.)- But if my noble friend wants to invent a new order of architecture, if it is thought worth while, let us offer a premium for it ; but for heaven's sake, seeing that we want a Foreign-office, that our Foreign-office is tumbling down, and that the Colonial office is following its example—(a laugh)—and seeing that we want an India-office and a State Paper-office, the present being nearly full, there not being space left for more than two years' papers—seeing all these things, I do say do not delay providing these buildings till somebody invited to compete for the purpose shall have invited a new order, and that new order shall have been approved by the House of Commons. (Hear, hear.) With regard to these plans, it is quite true that I did object to the first plan of Mr, Scott as being Gothic, Gothic architecture is very fit '.4 l'll SUN,' LONDON . 'TUESDAY EVENING, JULY 9, 1861. for churches and buildings of certain kinds, but I hold that it is unfit fur street architecture in a town, and especially in a case like this, where the buildings are of a different character, and we want to combine external appearance with internal arrangement. (Hear, hear.) Then Mr. Scott brought me a plan which appeared to be Gothic in disguise, with windows round the Ica; and afterwards he brought me another, which appeared to be a mixture of Saracenic and Byzantine. I said to him then, " Really, Mr. Scott, you are quite capable of excelling in any style; do, for heaven's sake, go and bring me something in the Italian style." (Laughter.) He did, and it has been admired by the best judges. Ido not myself pretend to be a judge of the scientific merits of architecture, but it seems to me a very beautiful plan, and one which combines great beauty and ornament with moderation in expense, (Hear, hear.) If we were to adopt the suggestion of my hon. friend, who spoke of using different granites, different marbles, and various kinds of encaustic work, the expense would be very heavy. And it should be recollected that the front to Parliament-street will be open, and the building will be open towards the park ; but the Downing-street side will be very little open, and the other side will not be open at all, and therefore it would be a mere waste of money to have highly ornamental buildings. (Hear, hear.) Well, having done that, I determined that that should be the style submitted for the approbation of the house. The building is to comprise an India-offiee ; and my right lion. friend the Secretary of State for India, who is to build that portion out of the Indian funds, approves of the plan last prepared by Mr. Scott. If we were to make our part Gothic and he was to make his in the Italian style I do not think we should add much to the beauty of the whole. (" Hear, hear," and a laugh.) Without detaining the house any longer I R ill only just answer the appeal made to me personally by my hon. friend (Mr. Layard). He had the kindness to give me credit for some amount of common sense, thinking that I showed the possession of that quality in going doing to Harrow to lay the first stone of a Gothic building. (Laughter.) I admit that I did show common sense in that. lam not fond of Gothic, but a plan having been approved of for a Gothic library in harmony with a Gothic chapel close to which it was to be placed— (hear, hear)—l waived my objection to the style, and laid tha first stone. I will now ask the noble lord and my hon. friend to show some good sense now—(cheers and laugh ter)—to waive their preference for the Gothic, and agree to lay the first stone of this building, and I am quite sure that when they see the building rise they will have the same feeling that I shall have when I see the Gothic building rise—of great pleasure in having contributed to such a work. (Loud cheers.) The house then divided— For Lord Eicho's motion 95 Against it . lBB Majority THE DANISH CLAIMS. Mr. MACAULAY, who had a motion on the paper on this subject, said that he should postpone it till Friday, when he understood both the Attorney and Solicitor-Gene ra would be in the house. SUPPLY. The house then went into Committee of Supply, On the vote for £30,000 being proposed for the erection of the new Foreign Office. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY wished to know whether that sum was intended to cover the whole expense of the building. Mr. COWPER replied that the vote was a portion of the general estimate. Tenders would be advertised for the erection of the building, but it was impossible for him at that moment to state any precise sum. Lord R. CECIL asked the right hon. gentleman to name a sum which he would give a guarantee not to exceed. See what was done with regard to that house ; a certain sum'of money was named, but the expense went on increasing year after year until it increased from £700,000 to £2,500,000, and not finished yet. He hoped, therefore, a certain amount would be fixed, and then the Minister of the Crown would be responsible that no more would be expended. Mr. B. COCHRANE complained that no unity of design was fixed on, because if that were so they might have an exact sum. Various offices were to be erected, but they could not judge of the expense of the whole until such a plan was adopted. Mr. A. SMITH thought the answer given by the right hon. gentleman to the hon. baronet the member for Eve sham was clear and distinct. He said the expense would be £30,000. .Mr. COWPER replied that the hon. gentleman had mistaken him. The entire estimated amount was £200,000 and the £30,000 was only for the expense of the year. The plan adopted in the erection of the Houses of Parliament was different from that which he proposed to follow. When Sir Charles Barry was appointed architect there was no de tailed design agreed on, nor any contract entered into, and so the house went on being altered and enlarged according to subsequent designs and plans, and the expense of course followed in proportion. In the present instance, however, he had plans and estimates made upon which the contracts should be founded, and if these contracts be increased then the :responsibility would fall on the person who should hold the office he had then the honour to fill. Mr. B. OSBORNE reminded the committee that the noble lord at the head of the Government, in the speech he had just made, stated that the Secretary of State for India wished an India house to bo commenced immediately. Now, he wished to know whether this £30,000 was for the build ing of a new Colonial Office and an India House, as well as a Foreign Office. Mr. COWPER said that the vote now asked for was for the Foreign Office alone. Lord R. CECIL asked why some guarantee was not given that the 'estimated sum should not be exceeded. There was no use in naming a sum unless they had a guarantee. Sir G. C. LE WIS replied that the Government could do no more than get an estimate of what the cost would be, and give directions to the contractor not to exceed it. If after that agreement they did so then the house could re fuse to pay more than the stipulated sum. Mr. WHITE did net think that answer at all satisfac tory. The estimate might be exceeded before the build ing was half finished, and then they would be told they must go on or what was done was an entire loss. Mr. PEASE asked the amount of the contract, and 'moved that the consideration of this vote be deferred. Mr. COWPER could not tell what the amount would be. The present estimate was founded on the plan adopted when the noble lord opposite was commissioner. He thought the house was bound to look well into this matter. They had new got a Palladian Commissioner, and a very good one he appeared to be ; but suppose he lost his office, what gua rantee had they what the expense of those buildings, like that of the House of Commons, would amount to. He speed with his hon. friend that it appeared desirable to post pone those particular estimates for a year. (Hear, hear.) Mr. BLACK thought they ought to proceed in this matter in the same calculating manner that a man would when he was about to build a house fot himself; and to have plans and estimates before them. Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed what the ori ginal estimate for the building was. Mr. COWPER, in reply, said £200,000. Mr. CO NINGHAM must say that the plan did not ap pear to him to be satisfactory. Mr. BALL thought they could not agree to such a course as his hon. friend suggested with respect to the postpone ment of this vote. They had all agreed that the expense of the building would be £200,000, and was it because of fear of increased expenditure in the carrying out of the work that they were now to be called upon to postpone the vote? He thought the arguments adduced were not very logical, and ho hoped the committee would agree to the vote, and the more especially so, after the pledge the First Minister had given them that the works should be carried out with a strict attention to economy. Lord J. RUSSELL said it was obvious that neither the Government nor his right hon. friend the First Com missioner of Works could give any such pledges as some hon. members required them to give in relation to the proposed internal arrangements of the new Foreign office. In the ori4inal plan it was proposed that sitting and sleeping apartments should be provided in the new Fo reign-effice for the Foreign Minister and his family, but, on further consideration, that thought was given up, on the ground that it was not desirable to incur increased expense in the plans for such an object. Mr. 11. SEYMOUR thought the House of Commons should have the plans laid before them so that they might seleet the best design. He denied that it was necessary that an expenditure of £230,000 should be incurred for the erection of a Foreign.office ; and many members who had now loft the house thought that that sum would not only be applied to the building of the Foreign-office, but to that also of the Indian-office, and of another department, Whai said the committee that sat on that subject, and to which his hon. friend the member for Liskeard (Mr. Osborne) drew attention a little time ago ? The very first thing they said was that £90,000 would be sufficient for that purpose. But according to the present plan a sum of £230,000 was asked for. Mr. Pennethorne, who erected a beautiful structure in Jermyn-street—a structure which every one admired—offered to construct the Foreign-office for a sum of £60,000 ; but his offer was not accepted, and:it was pro- posed to give more than twice as much to Mr. Scott for his plan. He did not think the House of Commons would be performing their duty as guardians of the public purse un- less they looked narrowly into those calculations. The committee had a right to be critical on this subject, because the Government, when trusted in former times in similar matters, had led the country into expense far beyond what the original plan and estimates were. He thought they should not consent to the proposed vote until they saw the plans before them, and the elevation, the internal arrange ments, and the ornamentation. Every one condemned the plan of Mr. Scott, but the Government were bound hand theandbest foot t o th a t gentleman. The committee were not taking means of dealing with this matter. The most solvedtg con on indul g i ng . siderate and th e b est arrangement would be to pay Mr. Scott for hi s t rou b le, and then take the best plan. Lord PALMERSTON said if hon. members were re in criticisms on the Foreign- o ffi ce it would" €:ver be built a t a ll . They k new th a t i t was im possible . the geni us or ingenuity of man to invent or construct ything that could not be criticised. With re gard to the elevation, he really thought that after the dis cussion that had taken plabe that had been decided upon, and if the design was not as ornamental as other designs appeared to be, it would, at least, be less expensive. With respect to Mr. Pennethorne's building in Jermyn-street, which had been referred to by the hon. gentleman, no doubt it was very handsome ; but there was a great deal more orna ment about it than was exhibited in the Foreign-office plan. His hon. friend also complained that he had not seen the plan of the internal arrangements. Now, with regard to the interior of the building, how could the House of Commons give any such plan ? If a man was building a house he knew what he wanted ; but the House of Commons was not going to live in the Foreign-office ; and the Government having informed Mr. Scott what the nature of the public business was, and what kind of accommodation would be required, he made his design accordingly. With regard to the elevation, which his hon. friend had criticised and thought not sufficiently handsome, he begged to say that he thought that it was sufficiently handsome. But if they went on in this way, from year to year, voting money for the structure, they would save nothing, whereas by a contrary course the sooner the building was finished the sooner there would be a saving of expense. (Hear, hear.) Lord R. CECIL begged to say that they would save by delay. They had now no plan before them but that of Mr Scott; but by delay they should know what the public said and what the expense would be. Mr. CONINGIIAM should like to know whether, when the question was thrown open to competition, all the plans submitted by the various artists had been duly considered. He could not help saying that all the dissatisfaction that prevailed on this subject was owing, in his opinion, to the various plans not having been duly considered, and that they were too hasty in their decision. Mr. H. SEYMOUR, in explanation, said the noble lord at the head of the Government misunderstood him with re spect to the ornamentation of the building. He did not say there was too much ornament, on the contrary, he thought there was too little in the design. The noble lord had not answered a question which he had put to him, namely, upon what ground it was, when Mr. Pennethorne had expressed himself willing to construct the Foreign office for £60,000, the Government declined that offer, and proposed to give Mr. Scott more than twice as much, not for a better nor so desirable a design ? They had the plans, and let them submit them to the contractors. He thought, also, the plans ought to be lithographed, and if that were done, and the contractors' opinians taken, they would be able to see what the cost of the building would be. Mr. BRISCOE complained that there was no ground plan of the proposed building, and declared that he could not give his vote for the required sum in the absence of further information. There was not one member of the house wbo had expressed himself entirely favourable to the plans of the structure. There ought to be a model of the building prepared, and he hoped the house would not pro ceed hastily with so important a matter. Mr. PEASE said that he should not press his motion after the expression of opinion which had taken place, and he would, therefore, with the consent of the committee, withdraw his amendment; but he felt convinced that in raising the objection he had done his course was a cor rect one. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY protested against the contem plated expenditure. He should like to know upon what foundations were the calculations of this expenditure, and what was the understanding with the architect as to the remuneration for his labours. Mr. W. E. DUNCOMBE regretted that the hon. mem_ ber for Durham had withdrawn his amendment, and thought the vote ought to be postponed for another year. Mr. A. SMITH asked—Did the estimate of £200,000 for the work include the cost of purchasing the land ? Mr. COWPER replied that it did not. He denied that this vote had been charged with extreme haste. It was under discussion for years, and had been fully considered. Mr. Pennethorne's offer had been made for the construction of a building which was considered totally insufficient for the purposes of the Foreign Office. The ground plan of Mr. Scott's building was in its essential elements, the same as that sent in 1857. No advantage, but, on the contrary, great loss would arise from any further delay in the erection of the building. The best plan was to leave the matter to the Executive Government on its own responsibility. A careful plan and specification would be made by the archi tect and thrown open to public tender. The contract would be made on a complete plan. Sir J. SHELLEY believed they Would be very lucky If they succeeded in having the Foreign Office built for £200,000, and if that were done, very lucky indeed might the country consider itself. Sir H. WI LLO UGHBY asked—Was not the site of the proposed Foreign Office purchased by money belonging to the Woods and Forests ? Mr. COWPER said that the architect would receive the ordinary remuneration and nothing more. A portion of the site had been purchased by means of an exchange be tween the Board of Works and the Land Revenue Depart ment. and 12th Vic., c. 10, it was provided that the Commissioners of Woods and Forests should within three months after the end of the financial year place on the table of the house a return of the annual expenditure up to the end of the last financial year. What had been the course pursued by the commissioners for the last few years ? They had kept back the account until the very last day. Mr. WILLIAMS said that the large sum of £173,000 had been expended by the Woods and Forests, and he couhl, not understand why this further sum of £25,700 should bo asked for. If the Crown estates were properly managed ho felt convinced they would produce an amount equal to the Queen's civil list. They might spend £38,000 on the management of the Crown property and the residue would be equal to the civil list. It seemed to him that £38,000 was a large expenditure on a property of £400,000 a year. Mr. PEEL said that this department had been examined into some years ago, and it was found to be well managed. It was not surprising that in the management of so large an estate there should be a considerable expenditure. Favour able opportunity was taken for the sale of portions of the property, but sales never took place on the responsibility of the Woods and Forests department alone. The Treasury department was always consulted. During the last 10 years the property had increased from £350,000a year to £417,000. He should produce a return of I he expenditure of the Crown property for the last five years. Mr. GREGORY wished to know why the legal expenses connected with the crown property in Scotland were eight times the amount they were in Ireland. The LORD-ADVOCATE believed that in Scotland the solicitor had to pay for clerks and fees to counsel, whereas in Ireland a machine for carrying on the business was pro vided. He also believed that the law expenses in Scotland were heavier in consequence of there being a greater amount of litigation. Mr. FINL AY believed that a larger sum was expended in litigation in Scotland than was necessary. Mr. CAIRD said that an expenditure of 10 per cent. was far beyond the fair proportion. Mr. HENNESSY observed that £5OO had been expended on the feeding of game in Windsor, yet an hon. member opposite connected with the Government said last session that it was absurd to vote money for the support of the starv ing people of Ireland. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said there was as little advantage in discussing the charges for the management of this large property, amounting to between £430,000 and £500,000 a year, upon the vote for the ex penses of the office of Woods and Forests, as there would be in discussing the army expenditure on the vote for the expenses of the War Department. The mode of dealing with the crown estates had been settled at the be ginning of the present century by express contract. At the commencement of the reign a contract was entered into with the sovereign, and the sovereign in pursuance of that contract had made over the right to receive the net proceeds after all the charges connected with the manage ment had been defrayed. No estimate coulti, possibly be submitted to the committee for its previous sanction of those charges without an alteration in the law. At the same time he did not intend to imply that they were re moved from the control of the house, but that control could not be exercised by proceedings upon the estimates. The act of 1851 gave power to the Treasury to control the Woods and Fo - res ts, and it was in the power of the house to challenge the Treasury in respect of any proceedings of the Woods and Forests. He did not intend to say that the matter ',vas withdrawn from the control of the house, but he submitted that it ought to be dealt with in another manner. After some remarks from Sir H. WILLOITGHBY and Mr. LESLIE, The committee divided, and the numbers were— For the amendment 7B For the original vote Majority —44 Mr. A. SMITH said he wished to move the postpone ment of the vote. The CHAIRMAN said it was not competent to the hon. member, after a division, to move the postponement of the vote, Mr. A. SMITH then moved the rejection of the vote. Sir 3. TRI.ILAWNY also urged the rejection of the vote on the ground that certain returns made necessary by aet of 1 : - arliament had not been rendered to the house. The committee divided— For the vote Against it Majority —l62 The vote was agreed to. On the vote of £13,753 to defray the expenses of the State Paper .office, Mr. HENNESSY asked whether the place occupied by Mr. Turnbull, formerly engaged in this office, but turned away, had been filled up by the Government ? Lord PALMERSTON said the Government did not turn Mr. Turnbull away. He resigned, and his resignation was accepted. An inquiry was now going on in reference to the matter, which he thought might be concluded to-morrow— (hear)—and therefore he would not discuss it further. Mr. NEWDE GATE thought it right that he should state Mr. Turnbull had proceeded against the Secretary of the Protestant Alliance Society for damages, and it would not be fitting to discuss the matter in this house. The vote was agreed to. £184,71.1 to defray the expenses of the administration of the poor law boards in England and Ireland was voted. Lord J. MANNERS remarked that the Queen's birth day was to be celebrated on Wednesday, and he asked if the house was to sit on that day ? :Lord PALMERSTON said, as her Majesty was not in town, and there was no drawing-room, ho saw no reason why the house should not sit as usual. The house then resumed. EAST INDIA (CIVIL SERVICE) BILL. This bill as amended was considered and agreed to. APPROPRIATION OF SEATS (SUDBURY AND ST. ALBANS) BILL. Upon the motion that this bill should be considered as amended, Mr. COLLINS, in moving at page 2, line 21, to leave out " Pontefract" and insert "Wakefield" as the place of no mination for the southern division of the West Riding, dis claimed treating the question as a political one, and said it was purely a Yorkshire question, to be determined by York shiremen. He believed the majority of people in the county were in favour of Wakefield, and he found that the propor tion of electors nearest to 'Wakefield was 13,325, and nearest to Pontefract only 4,564, or about 3 to 1. He hoped there fore that members on both sides of the house, irrespective of political considerations, would support bin proposal. Mr. M. MILNES opposed the motion. Wakefield con tained a very large population, and was the scene of tumul tuous proceedings at elections, while Pontefract would not only be more central, but was a place where elections would be calmly and orderly conducted. Major EDWARDS, as a Yorkshireman, wished to say something on this question, and should be surprised if every Yorkshire member did not avail himself of the same oppor tunity to do so. (Laughter.) He earnestly hoped *hat Wakefield would be continued as the place of nomination, as it possessed better railway accommodation than Pontefract, and contained all the public offices belonging to that part o the county. Mr. HADFIELD characterised Pontefract as one of the most corrupt places in the country,and advocated the claims of Sheffield. (Laughter.) lie hoped Pontefract would not be insisted upon, but that some convenient and accessible place would be selected. Sir G. C. LE WIS thought that the house would be placed in an embarrassing and painful position if they rejected Pontefract, because they would be called upon to decide upon the rival claims of Wakefield and Sheffield. The hon. gentleman who made the motion proposed Wakefield in stead of Pontefract, and the hon. member proposed Shef field. lie hoped the house would imitate the lawyer in the fable, by giving one shell of the oyster to Wakefield and the other to Sheffield, leaving the middle or oyster itself to Pontefract. (Hear, hear, and laughter.) The house then divided-- For the amendment 107 Against 94-13 The announcement was received with cheers. On the motion that Wakefield stand part of the clause, Sir G. C. LEWIS said that as between Wakefield and Sheffield he preferred the former. Mr.HADFIELD opposed the introduction of Wakefield. He thought Sheffield had the best claim. The house was cleared for a division, but none took place, the introduction of Wakefield being agreed to. The bill was then ordered to be read a third time. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS ACT AMENDMENT The vote was then agreed to. £50,000 having been proposed to defray the expenses and salaries of officers of the two Houses of Parliament, Mr. WILLIAMS wished to be informed of the particular items of this vote. Mr. LINDSAY complained that no room was set apart for the accommodation of strangers wishing to communicate with members. The arrangements of the house were very inconvenient. Mr. CAIRD thought some arrangement should be made whereby members might be made acquainted with the latest telegraphic news. He also thought that officers of the house might, as in the House of Lords, be permitted to take in messages to members. Mr. CO WPER said the only part of the house unappro priated at present was a part of the library, and he had no objections to hon. members receiving visitors there. Lord lIOTHAM said there were practical difficulties in the way of admitting messengers into the house, and he hoped the suggestion would not be adopted. The vote was then agreed to. £53,173 for clerks' salaries, &c., at the Treasury, was also agreed to. £25,783 for the expenses of the office of the Secretary of State for the Home Department. After a few words from Mr. WILLIAMS, the vote was agreed to. The vote of £31,449 for the colonies was agreed to. The next vote proposed was £62,750 for the foreign de partment. Mr. LINDSAY said the committee had reported with reference to the foreign department that some of the clerks in the Foreign Office were permitted to act also as agents for the consular and diplomatic service. The hon. member said it so happened that a case had occurred in which he was himself concerned, where ho found it necessary to make a complaint to the Foreign Secretary of the conduct of a consul, and it might be that reference would be made to a clerk in the Foreign Office who was at the same time the agent for that very consul. Mr. M. MILNES said no doubt it would appear at first sight that a clerk in the Foreign Office ought not to act as the hon, member had stated, but from his knowledge of the facts he was able to say that some of the clerks in the Foreign Office of necessity acted as agents to the diplo matic and consular service, and he believed that the per formance of that duty by no 'means detracted from their usefulness in performing their public duties. Lord J. RUSSELL said for his own part he could say that there was no public wrong done by the practice which had been objected to. The nature of the duties of the Foreign Office were of the most confidential kind, and it would not be advisable that private agents should be fur nished with information which they might require if they performed the duties of agents to the diplomatic and con sular service. He was able to say that the public service did not suffer by the practice which was objected to by the hon. member. (Hear.) Lord PALMERSTON said he had had a great deal of experience in the Foreign-office, and he was satisfied that the public service did not suffer by the practice of the clerks acting as agents under the circumstances alluded to. It was most important that no private agent should be fur nished with information which was known to the clerks in the office, and in whom it was necessary the fullest confi dence should be placed, The vote was then agreed to, as were also the following : L 30,580 for salaries in the Privy Council-office. £14,595 for the expenses of the office for the Privy Conn ell for Trade. £2,760 for the Lord Privy Seal, and the expenses of his establishment. £6,112 for the civil service commission. £13,::50 for the department of the Paymaster-General. On a vote of £6,640 for salaries and expenses connected with the office of the Controller• General of the Exchequer, Mr. SALOMONS asked whether the recent changes would not allow of the whole business of issuing Exchequer bills being performed by the Bank of England. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER agreed that it would be desirable the whole business and manufacture of Exchequer bills should be placed in the hands of the Bank of England. There were, however, various other points connected with the duties of the office of the Exchequer standing for consideration and decision, and the Govern ment had therefore thought it convenient to postpone hand ling with this matter until the report of the public moneys committee could be considered, rather than to deal with it piecemeal. The vote was then agreed to. On a vote of £25,333 for salaries and expenses connected with the office of Commissioner of Works and Public Build ings, Mr. PEASE asked how it was there were two assistant surveyors of works ? Mr. C 0 W PER said one was the assistant surveyor in Lon don, and the other the assistant surveyor out of London. The vote was agreed to. On a vote of £18,708 for the salaries and expenses of the office of Woods, Forests, and Land Revenue. Mr. CAIRD complained there was a charge which did not appear on the vote for the management of the Woods and Forests in the shape of commissions and fees to sur veyors and others, amounting, he believad, very nearly to as much as the sum then asked for. He thought that was a vast waste of the public money. With regard to Scot land, he should propose to reduce the present vote by the amount of £l,OOO, that being the salary paid to the Scotch commissioners. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY contended the committee WAS not in a position to enter upon this vote at all. By the llth (No. 2) BILL. , - The house went into committee on this bill. Clause 1 was agreed to. On clause 2, which proposed to give the mayor the right of taking the chair at meetings of justices within the borough, Mr. NEWDEGATE opposed the clause. The Court of Queen's Bench decided unanimously that under the exist ing law the mayor had of right .no authority to take the chair. He thought.that a discretion should be left to the justices in this matter. There might be a mayor who was totally incompetent to preside, and it would not be right or proper that such a person should be the chairman of all the meetings of the justices within the borough. The opinion of the Court of Queen's Bench was that the prece dence intended to be given to the mayor was social and not magisterial. (Hear, hear.) He moved the omission of the clause. Mr. DANBY SEYMOUR moved the adjournment of the debate. It was too important to be discussed at that hour (two o'clock). Mr. ADDERLEY hoped the Government would agree to the motion for adjournment. Sir G. LEWIS diet not believe the clause had the great importance attributed to it, because, as they well knew, the mayors were persons of respectability. He had no objection to the adjournment. . re a tj aj N °u T ril lN ed U . CONTINUANCE AND TURNPIKETURN- T S ARRANGEMENTS BILLS. (IRELAND) BILL. he pi K debate , was ßAli c : i l i t ,, , rit ea v d ß a y s o ec it on s d tinte. These bills were cOPYRIGYIT OF DESIGNS BILL. Th C eUllTamended was considered. This bill passed eirough committee. PUBLIC OFFICES EXTENSION BILL. The Lords' amendments Were considered 40 agreed to. EDINBURGH UNIVERSITY BILL. I This bill was read a second time. LANDLORD AND TENANT LAW AMENDMENT (IRELAND) ACT PROCEEDINGS BILL. This bill was read a second time. CRUELTY TO ANIMALS PREVENTION (No. 2) BILL. Viscount RAYNHAM moved the second reading of this bill, which was opposed by Mr. HENNESSY and others. The second reading was negatived. UNIVERSITY ELECTIONS BILL. On the motion for the third reading of the bill, Mr. BOUVERIE moved that the third reading whould be postponed. The bill had never been discussed. After some discussion, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said be had strong objections to the bill as it stool, and he was pre pared to state them at length, but at the present late hour it was perhaps better that the debate should be adjourned. (Cries of " Divide.") The house divided—. For the adjournment Against Majority. —7 On the motion that the hill be read a third time, Mr. AYRTON rur)ved the adjournment of the house. Mr. MO WBRAY opposed the motion. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER remarkt..4 that the house had no opportunity of considering the new principle of voting by proxy introduced into the Mr. HUNT said the right hon. gentleman ought to have made his objection in committee. Sir G. LEWIS said that he agreed to the report on the distinct understanding that time would be allowed for the discussion of the third reading. (Hear, hear.) Mr. DODSON complained of the conduct of the Govern ment in offering this opposition to the last stage of this bill, without any notice of their intention to oppose it. The house divided— For the adjournment 25 Against Majority... —g Mr. FREELAND moved the adjournment of the debate. Sir M. FARQUHAR said that if the Government gave a day for the discussion of the third reading the opposition to the Government would be withdrawn. If not, he, hoped they would remain in their places till ten o'clock in the morning. (Oh, oh.) Lord PALMERSTON proposed to give Wedneriday week for the discussion. (Oh.) If it did not come on on that day he would fix an early day after. Mr. DODSON would agree to the adjournment if the noble lord fixed a day on this side of Wednesday week. The house divided— For the adjournment Against Majority —B Sir C. DOUGLAS moved the adjournment of the holm. Lord PALMERSTON proposed Friday next for the .ad journment, which was accepted by Mr. Dodson. The house then adjourned at a quarter-past three. COUNTRY MA.REETS. COLCHESTER--JULY 6. The growing crops look very healthy. A. short supply of wheat. Best samples at rather over the prices of last week ; inferior unsaleable. spring corn in little demand, at late rates. Wheat, white s6s to 62s 1 Beans,_Nfazagan..36; to 420 red 44s to 56s Middle & small 38s to 440 Barley —s to —s White peas 448 to 480 Oats —s to —8 Cirri,. 38s to 440 IRD-JuLy 5. -day, but very little businesii ipring corn of all descriptions Peas, Partridge 44s to 453 White 43s to 46s Boiling ..43s to 47s Dun ..40s to 430 Beans, Tick ....39s to 48s Harrow Ticks 39s to 60s Mazagan......33s to 450 CHELMSFO A fair supply of wheat to doing, and prices as before. stationary. Wheat, white....29s to 61s red 38s to 57s Barley 29s to 42s Chevalier 32s to 45s Grinding 26s to 37s Malt 618 to 67s _... .. Chevalier 64s to 69s Oats 26s to 31s STAMFORD-JuLy 6. There was a good show of wheat ai market, and trade ruled slow, at is to 2s less money. Little or , aotbing doing in barley, and late rates rather on the declbae. Oats and other articles in slow demand. Wheat .. .. 50s to 58s I Oats.. .......24s to 30s White do 60s to 64s I Beans 4Bs to 503 Barley ..,....30s to 40s I Ditto, old ........50s to 540 KIRKALDY-JuLy 6. A trifling supply of wheat to-day. Good sorts brought is to 2s advance on last week's currencies. Barley and oats a ready sale. Wheat First.... 32s 3d I 130aarleL 2 y 6s 0d Second.. 52e Od 33s Od 29s Od Third .. 57s Od I —a Od 32s Od THE MAILS. MAILS DUE.. Australia, Ceylon, and Mauritius (via South ampton) Do. Brazil and Cape Verds Buenos Ayres, Monte Video, &O. Cuba and Mexico .. .. June I:9, Canada, &c. (via L'derry) .. July 3. Cape of Good Hope, &c. Aug. 1. China, Penang, and Singapore (via S'ampton) July 19. Do (via Marseilles) July 13. Gibraltar (via Southampton) .. .. July 11. India(Calcutta), Ceylon, &c. (via Southampton) July 19. Do. (via Marseilles) July 13. India (Bombay), (via Southampton) .. July 11. Do. (via Marseilles) .. .. July 5. Lisbon . • • • • • • • • • .. July 11. Malta, Egypt, and Aden (via Southampton) .. July 11. Do. (via Marseilles) .. Overdue. Vigo, and Oporto .. .. July 11. United States, California, &o. .. July 10. Western Coast of Africa, Madeira, Teneriffe .. July 10. West Indies and Pacific, Carthagena, Cuba, &o. July 15. • • - . .. July 19. (via Marsoillea) July 13. .. .. July 4. [ADVERTISEMENT.]—We quote some more interesting cures without medicine by Du Barry's delicious revalenta arabica food. Cure No. 49,832.—Wortham Ling, near Diss, Norfolk—Fifty years indescribable agony from dys pepsia, nervousness, asthma, cough, constipation, flatu lency, spasms, sickness at the stomach, and vomitings, have been removed by Du Barry's excellent revalenta arabica food—Maria Joly. Cure No. 3,9o6.—Thirteen years cough, indigestion, and general debility, have been removed by Du Barry's excellent revalenta arabica food—James Porter. Athol-street, Perth. Cure 47,121—Miss Elizabeth Jacobs, of Nazing Vicarage, Waltham Cross, Herts, a cure of extreme nervousness, indigestion, gatherings, low spirits, and nervous fancies. Cure 48,314—Miss Eliza beth Yeoman, Gateacre, near Liverpool: a cure of ten years dyspepsia, and all th e h orrors of nervous irritability. Avoid Pills and Medicines : they invariably aggravate and • perpetuate diseases ; their annoyance, disappointment, and expense may be avoided by using Du Barry's Food which, at a few pence per day, saves 50 times its cost in other remedies, removing effectually, without purging t constipation, indigestion (dyspepsia) nervous, bilious and liver complaints and all their consequences. Certificate No. 36,418. We find it the safest remedy. • Andrew I.Tre, MD., F.R.S., Dr Harvey, Dr. Wurzer, Dr. Shorland, Dr. Campell. Let invalids avoid the fearful dangers of spu rious and injurious imitations offered under a variety of false pretences. Nevill's imitations are prohibited by the high Court of Chancery under a penalty of £5,000 against Alfred Hooper Nevill and his agents; and the pretences that Nevill has a patent for Arab:ca Food and that Du Barry's are connected with such patent are utterly fake. No canister is genuine without the name Barry Du Barry and Co., 77, Regent-street, n full, orithe seal and wrapper. Shopkeepers who attempt imposition in one article must expect to be distrusted in all others. Packed in tins lib. 2s. 9d.; 21b. 4s. 61, ; 51b. lls. ; 121 b. 225. ; 241 b. 40a, The 121 b. and 241 b. canisters are sent carriage free on receipt of Post-office order by Barry Du Barry and Co., 77, Re.. gent-street, London; Fortnum Mason, and Co.; Abbio ! 60, Gracechurch-street ; 4, Cheapside ; 63 and 150, Ox. bard-street ; 330 and 451, Strand; 49 and 60, Bishopsgmte-. street ; Batty, 16, Finsbury Pavement ; Phillips and Co tea-dealers; Petty, Wood, and Co., King William-street City ; at 127 High Holborn; and all grocers. [ADVERTISEMENT.] —Holloway's Ointment and Pills, Order and Ease.—These remarkable remedies surpass every other for general family use. Their action is altera tive, anodyne, tonic, and healing. The ointment has only to be perseveringly rubbed twice a day ov e r an y afflict organ to penetrate to it, regulate, and soothe it. Its tomc properties are obtained through :the wholesome influence it exerts, when rubbed over the stomach and liver ;. on both of which it produces the happiest effects by ma king their l secretions abundant and natural. Holloway's purifying pills should be simultaneously taken. The comb i ned action of these safe, yet potent remedies over stomach, li ver , bowels, kidneys, muscles, and nerves, is immediate, bene ficial, and lasting. Holloway's preparations restore order, strength, and happiness. BIRTHS. at Cream Hall, Highball', M E m r s. E da ughters. 3d inst., at Bri',ht TURNER. —On the „ , b on, R. Lam the wife of Capt. Lambert Turner, or a aaughter. C L WEsToAirrir.—On the Bth inst., a t h er residence, No. 84, Glouces t e r-terrace, IV., M rs , W illiam Westgarth, of a N W T Sm.—. Clemente, the en B ts t , h of in tw sti n , daughter. MARRIAGES. BLOXHAM — SOTON.—O n th e 4th inst. at Lewisham Church, Mr. J. F.HR Bloxham, of Deptford', to Caroline Charlotte, thi r d d aughter of S. Southorn, Esq., Black heath, S.E, COBHAM—LAcK.—On the 3d inst., at St. John's, liamp• ton-wick, George Strode Cobham, Esq., of Morden, Surrey, to Emily Rhoda, second daughter o Richard William Lack, Esq., of Hampton-wick. DEATHS. BRO WNING.—On the 29th ult., at Florence, Elizabeth Barrett, wife of Robert Browning, Esq. C HANTER.—On the 6th inst., at Bromley St. Leonard's, John Chanter, Esq., aged 82. CLAY.—On the Bth inst., at Grove-end-road, St. John's wood, Robert Clay, Esq., aged 76. ' FOREST.—On the 7th inst., at 14, Montagu-place, Clap ham-road, Robert Forest, Esq., aged 79. GUEST.—On the 6th inst., at an advanced age, Miss Fran ces Guest, of Barnsbury Villas, Islington. OTTLEY.—On the 3d inst., at 2, Shrewsbury. terrace, Bays water, Mr. Richard Ottley, of the Poultry, London, aged 63. LONDON : Printed and Published by MriltDO YOUNG, ot No. 112, Strand, Printer, at THE SUN p in ce, in the Precinct of the Savoy, in thq Vounty of :diddles" TueaditY, July 9, 1861 . No. 112,Strand