The Sun. — London, England, 1834-03-18 00:00:00

' lie (Ililr. Braes) was ageinst atApleOititiitig die 14 kennel . er faithss(Queetion, quest i on.) Well, he would not further trouble th e hou se . He would not join with the hon. Member for (Lau Li ncoln in playi ng t h e C omedy of Errors.— ghter: Qusstion, question.) Mr ' PIGOT made a few observations which were very implefectly heard in the gallery. The house then di v i ded, when there appeared—. ors he motion 142 Majo r i ty _B3 On our retur n to the g n o alleay, we found Sir JAMES GRAH AM add ress a few observations to the house, t even the purport o f w hi c h was untleratood, owing to low tone in which th e r i g h t hon. baronet spoke, and the noise occasioned by the resadmis-ion of strangers. RUSSIAN AND TURKISH TREATIES. i: Mr. SHELL should at once proceed, without any tpre..- " m inary ob servation, to the statement of the facts, ins ' mots' and d ocuments, on which •he should h m i fn. ot ion. I n the autumn of 1831 Ibrahim Pacha margroundcho,, „re fl te Syri a . On the 3d of December in th it year A to Will b " thheal It f e ll in May 1832. Ile advanc e d e mes ' Which w as ta k en on the 14th of June. On at 7th R of July the f a t e o f S yr i a was d ec id e d b y the battle ariti 418* it Was easy to f oresee these successes, ciPste the victory of Egyptian discipli ne over Turkishandto IllaNanization. Was it not most strange th a t a t thi s Peri ed We Th ere oral had n o am b assador at Canstantinople ? —( Hear. ) no ambassador from the English or French t4erlten ts .(llear.) G e n e r a l G u ill em i no t h a d b een Eaten am bassador during the Polish war, but in come lueuee of his interference in urging the Porte to take ad tAgnitelt,_e of that crisis, he was removed by Ssbastiani, at e , - ,'rauce of Count Rana di Borgo. Turkey applied to al - 1 1 4 M in this emergency for aid. This important fact .: add by the noble lord in this house. latence Was refused. Even Russia concurred in recom loarelltilte that succour should he ,fforded. He calculated eds ca d: rge ,',.°.o the refusal. Naval aid was all thet was deter / I _ t t is obvious that it would have been sufli i elent en to r4"rehina from advancing. —( Hear.) 111 d forced th eend hr ~ e p asses of the . r - atirtas. n theHe marched n e f d De! Tu r ks it 'lle battl e of hontah was fought, and the last inte rpos 4 ittt.reaY waseannihilated ! The moment for Russian of its crafty policy, was stow Srrit : ed ea . , and the triumph fused her au T is h ia e n E ce mpe b r rNieholas, after Eigland bed had sent General Aluravieff to ;jonstantinonle e with letter, written in the linauage of d a t rattr eelend e ' a the Sultan, offering fleets an hoops Thi:fment,.tton 04 the the 2d of FePhrropelwas not at first acceded to, but 1833, he applied for this sinister • 4 ' Yet teary , stras no English or French ambassador flo.Constantinnple. Lord Ponsonhy, who had been !p -italyn" in November, did not arrive until the succeeding h lathl-. A i ss li h mi ral Rotrysin reached Constantinople on (which of -e-ru arY • th e 19th he remonstrated (us • .nglaud never diclior the occupation of Turkey by Rus S i r e : fno t r ri joesoespii i n Is n is ee r e t p a re r a t e i n ve ta d t representations The Turkish i G s overnment was struck with but on the very next day ; the Bosphorus. Admiral ' t g al , iu ern ldoled his best efforts to induce Ibrahim to t e ll " - t r eaty, but that he was counteracted by Russia aloneere little question. The French ambassador was ; h ,, Had be been sustained by Lord Ponsonby and 1 -. • r soglish fleet, much might have been effected—but . 4 1, Lin diplomacy, sustained by 20,000 troops, pre tee.:;led. The Russian army disembarked on the Asiatic of the Bosphorus, Admiral ROUSBIII %V 18 foiled, and ' hessian interposition the Sultan declared that he owea the salvation of his empire. In May Lord P e W e' d elehed Constantinople. What he could havheadrirtee,,thet hei 4 d r i ci ll 'efl at an earlier period, is obvioua , tarp equally evident. Count Orloff . — ar w rived as well as Y pl ot " Ponsonby , and the result was a consummation of the i th ss .. hieh had been darkly and deeply laid. From the .van i i " E ' ture for a moment to St. St.'phen's Chap-1. On the ee- t ° of July, the member fur Coventry had moved "for innes of papers respecting the measures pursued by R , _i n tnitiatber late interference with the state of Turkey." mostOl itni:eoasion the noble hard (Palmerston) m . ide some the nt statements. He resisted the motion because lit'llatitateteti.ons to which the papers related were incomplete, tie . ?IN. character must depend on their termination. p orts I.4).tted that aid hail been asked of England by t ie i liani th a n refused_(Hear, hear)—and that it E agla . m vitd. ought proper to interfere the progress of the !ti -40:4 er.hY would have been stoppe ~ and the Russian 404111v0tad not have been called in. The aid granted by WOtittonliztearnely to repress Mehemet Ali. The integrity f th the puer ile, taunt of mpire should be maintained. He said tee government being afraid of war is 44 _ e ' a nd I y any y man to show that we have made ..Y sacrifiee of the hono ur or interests of the country for `°e-eahe of 0311intainin /10t intl. g peace." He (Mr. Shell) would rrupt the order of the statement here by any eetnistiemare ,), • • but would ' tins intrepid and chivalrous declaration, I, ~ "nte"t himself with whispering "Peland," ou !ne ear of the noble lord --(H r hear.) He con ned b y saying that h. had no doubt that Rostsi . a r*iottld honourably withdraw. her troops, as soon as peace iotl4lld Ire established, and fulfil the pledges which she ti led a ne in Oat , . face of Europe. The. 11 to of July was ,i• 'Y On Which ace sp.ech was delivered. Hoar little "Id th, oat th nolde lord conjecture that on y three days ._ 1 . 7 . 1:0 n i . 'e ,•• it (1.! 8 h of July, a treaty had be•-u cl and stinely •t., I whoserovtists.ntanoplebet eto the Suiten and Count Orloff. tad iii once he . appeared w to be eneaged in the r.-views, show., crind u . un nnations of the Seraglio, was secretly and silently th. eting the Sultan to the ruin prepared fir him. Of it lg ,,,: s P esty our government . knew . and heard mulling until A th a nnounced in the Morning Herald of the 21st of le t , (Cheers and Hear.) On ihe 21 , t of August, a p - ... i teoln th e p ivate correspondent of that journal apff d while Gaunt Orloff Itt e a ° : sq ' i 4 which it was stated, that ti,";lPParently criuip'ying with the wishes of France an ko g i° da he was plepating a stroke which only became a , ea the day after his departure, which has since co. 4:444 battle .ambassa,tors of- those countries with confusion. m, 3 pieced Turkey in the hug of the bear. Ile pre °r on the Sultan to sign a treaty offensive and defen or .! lty which Tu. key is hound not to make airy treaty, 0 ;eli for assistance from any other nation for ten years ; tha t the artielt a confirms all prior treaties, in particular ei,et..uf Adrianople ; another binds Turkey to furnish I icasistance necessary to protect her from her internal ''"orti ternal enemies ; and the third, interdicts her from,. The s e n r g "V other European power for ten years. ' bilktunviter adds, that the teller articles of the treaty were t hq Loind' "et the treaty was clandestinely conc!uiled, It nd we r "an % and Admiral Rous.in remon trated. En 1 e t ell' that atsist- • had been asked in vain from g and a nd D ,"" had left th e Krte ,rauce against Egypt, and that they Patch e d 00°:. alternative, and the arnbassrdors ad . ey% nothin wits to their courts for instruction. The writer 44 he L a d 4.. h regard to the Dardanellee. This letter was 4)416 24thin'IMblislied August 21st, 1833, in London. r einat er i if t hat month, 0 s gallant member for West *he, er ntroduced the subject into the house. He asked t00 ::: it the Russian troops had entered Turkey with the fs t w ?f France and England? He adverted to the et i iee t l ons of the Dardaraellee under the superintendence tlik enganetrs, are' added that it was t reaty, off ens i ve and defensive, had beenrumoured entered illt o a illtp, ht tWeen the S u l tan end Count Orloff, without the The t ensio n or knowledge of the other Ambassadors le tto letuber for Oxford (sir R. Inglis) referred to the b ow in the Morning Herald. Ile trusted that the f0r4,129'4 would nut allow this house to receiv e its in but that he would give it Inset, from ti " the newspapers, roßicle usual manner. He trusted that before the pi o notal:",° the house, or on the earliest occasion, the trutt):°ll would lay before the house, e . r the l 'oPeil ' ai, "4 the unaniunications connected with it. lie Of a --e the chard would be able to contiadict runouerst oglatncedatY ~," Injurious to the honour and i nter est s llbeen L e n that a treaty had tog fed • t h . utile lord replied, . communicated; o lad t hat b: a at II bad not yet been fflc y elate, f.4neW ntathing, except on vague rumour,. at that fliatttlLaWh't tile treat contained. He said that r, •g ittt o 1 . -;_nut Objected To the entry of the Russian troops 18 32 ) ul 'eYa and that tl e Parte had, in the Autumn e , 4PPlica?lied to P t --sogiand for assistance, but that the da l, .4. 1 " was refused. On the 29th of August, 6th part his At. • ; a after, aksty a speecn on the prorogation wing Pas,agevoE was deliveied, and contained the follow' , ilavete_hostiliti atteAtio-4" terminated ; d irect may es which had disturbed the peace of Turkey . 4fl ect the w'll be carefully • ts which may be assured that every - Pr •ed to any evcn . Mpire. ssent state, or the future independence of that t're n , th -. t'Ze"." e e un k i t , l , n u g n . ! a a P ti eech be should pass to a very mo t no :: , ' , l 'twi ee _ . on made try France to Russia, i , a , Engl and wing uctober. The interests of France MI but mor e -- ' l'u"" 1) , ° espy e i o 013 together in the whole question. a damns. % 0, I, ly wath respect to the passage of thy af France and oi . ) ' the treaty of Paris in 18(12, the right is a'ltattle footing. /4„iettd ere platted upon precisely tire ttliged the folte4.`"ett•ber last Alonsieur La Greaee ~,,,, 'the unde rsign e vi d -ne n'te (ii Count Nessell ode : It'.`ll' e g of the kee nen . Th Ch arge d r li t , of St. Petersbie 'Affaires of his Majesty the as received orders to express to the ce_ oteoch Govertaoe,, rgh the profound affliction felt by the el;ieSth e we ,_ , lii . , on learning the conclusion of the treats leas ' tbe ti,„" '.'t (.between his Majesty the Emperor of Rus,i. "4t, alt • " u si gnior I , is t, e ,, t ,. ,• n the opinion of the King's govern. als.ghs to the mutual relations existing be ciente contal w tw h Nn tch t t h h e e p ° o t ia tt) .e rn rs at o l f eL E lP u i r l o v p a c tl h d av it e u a " r l ig 4 h n t e to w pCrh:tteasttt.'ele, against To this note Count :Tubed in the following cant, offensive, and elniest centitinelioue language:— " It is true that this act changes the nature of the relations between Russia and the Porte, for in the room of long-con tinued hostilities it substitutes that friendship and that con fidence, in which the Turkish government will henceforth find a guarantee for its stability and necessary means of defence, calculated to insure its preservation. In this conviction, and guided by the purest and most disinterested intentions, his Majesty the Emperor is resolved, in case of necessity, to dis charge faithfully the obligations imposed on him by the treaty of the Bth of July, thus acting as if the declaration contained in the note of Monsieur La Grenee had no existence. St. Pe tersburgh, Oct., 1833." This note is taken from the Augsburg Gazette to which it purports to have been transmitted in a letter from Paris on the 23d of December. Here let one remark be made, which will not trench in on the distinct classification of facts. If the French Government remons- tre.l,tt 1- tube presntned that the noble lord did not rema ) W' P e is his correspondence ? Was a note as affronting written in reply, or was it even couched in more caustic phrase (slog, and in the same style of contemptuous repudiation as the article in the St. Petersburgh Gazette, on the presumption of our interference in the affairs of Poland ? To return to dates and facts—on the Ist of January Pozzo di Borgo addressed the King of the French, and on that occasion the accomplished Corsican pronounced on Louis Philip an eulogium, accompanied with protestations cha racteristic of both—of the party who indulged in, and the party who was graciously pleased to accept the hollow panegyric. Six days after, in bringing up the address, M. Bignon delivered a speech, which was received with equal surprise and acclamation. He denounced the conduct of Russia towards Poland, and held out the aggressions upon Turkey as iniicative of that deep and settled purpose of which he had, in his official capacity, a perfect cogni. z ince. In 1807, he said, Alexander had tendered all Southern Europe to Napoleon, provided he got Constan tinnple in exchange.—(Hear, hear.) He warned France to beware of the advances of Russian power in the East, and denounced—while he revealed her policy, and invoked his countrymen to awaken to a sense of the insults offered to the dignity of France, and the violation offered to her rights. To this speech the Duke de Broglie made an answer conspicuous in it self, and which his subsequent conduct rendered still more remarkable. He expressed his unqualified concurrence in all that had been said, and thanked M. Bienon for having given expression to the sentiments which he and his col leagues entertained. On the very next day, this very man went down to the Chamber, and made a speech which was received with astonishment by both countries. He contended that no violation of treaty had taken place, ex pressed satisfaction with Russian policy, and stated that there bad been no material alteration made respecting the passage of the Dardanelles. M. Thiers, in reply to M. Mauguin, said nearly the same thing, and although La Grenee's note was yet fresh in every memory, and the Duke of Breglie's approval of Bignem's speech was ringing in every ear, expressed no sort of discontent at any one of the incidents which had taken place: M. Thiers, how. ever, incidentally acknowledged that it was a part of the treaty, that all vessels of powers at war with Russia should be excluded from the p visage of the Dardanelles. Our own Parliament did not meet until the sth of Feb., but before it assembled an incident occurred which re mained to be explained. The French and English fleets united, proceeded to the Dardanelles, which Russia had spared no expense to fortify, and having displayed the tricolour, and " the national fl ig of England," as it hail been nobly called, near the spot where Sir George Duckworth, when Lord Grey was Secretary fur Fo reign Affairs, expended a good deal of powder without much avail, both fleets sailed away, and instead of Proceeding to Smyrna, gave a preference to a more distant, i_rs: commodious harbour, where, however, Russian in neAtigtdliqui e mo predominant as in th it celebrated Ila u to n n ee was Lord of theh i rerarity:ft butiseziptedwi iaisontobbeleoncgeeed..teotutrheedFtihrastt the achievement was euggested by the genius j of the Secretary for Foreign Affeirs.—(Hear, and a laugh.) But in what did it restilt ? That remained to be told, and for the saris action of that curiosity, be that night afforded an opportunity. Parliament met on the sth. The King's speech informed them that the intecrity of the Porte was for the future to be preserved (•he Sultan r aving been first stripped and then manacled), end that his Majesty con tinned to receive assurances which did not disturb hi* confidence that peace would be preserved. The Duke of Wellington, in another place, a. verted to the treaty of G-nstantinople, and Gerd Grey retorted Adrianople upon his Grace. But in the treaty of Adri tnople there w is, at all events, nothing that infringed upon our rights as to the navigation of the Black Sea; and it was to be recol lected that whatever the First Lord of the Treasury might have said, the Secretary for Foreign Affairs declared that " while he desired peace, of war he was not in the least afraid." In that !roue no interrogatories are put. On the 24th of February rte following paragraph ap peered in the Gb,be, which, from -its being the supposed organ of government, deserved great attention, the more especia'ly as Op y were left to the newspap,ra for their in•ell Bence. That article stated : " Another treaty between Russia and Turkey has been con cluded at St Petersburgh, which was signed by Acton/ t Pacha, on the 29th of last month. . . . Enough has transired to satisfy the most j e al ous t h at its spirit is pacific, and indeed ad vantageous to the Turkish empire. The Porte is relieved from the pressure 05 the engagements imposed on her at Adrianople, and we understand that the principalities, with the exception of Silistria, will shortly be evacuated, and the sum exacted by the former treaty reduced one-third. Such relaxations of posi. Live engagements are proofs either of the moderation and good sense of Russia, or of the influence which the union of England and France, and the firm and concerted language of those two powers, have acquired in the councils of St. Petersburgh." Was it not reasonable that this treaty should be laid before the house ? It. was to be observed, that in any account of it, either in our journals or in the Allgernetne Zitung, not one word was said of the passage of the Dardanelles. The principalities of Wallachia and Mid. eavia indeed were to be evacuated. That circumstance was a mere delusion, for Wallachia and Moldavia were as much dependencies on Russia as if they bad actually been transferred. As to the remission of money, that conces sion was made to an insolvent debtor; it was not the first time that Russia adopted the same course ; the payment of a tribute was of little moment from a country which was almost incorporated in her dominions, and would soon meet the hie of so many of the Turkish provinces. But how did this treaty mo lify or effect that of the Bth of July ? It di I not at all relate to it. It con cerned the treaty of Adrianople ; and as far as they had nothing else on this question, the house was entitled to receive adequate information from the government. With respect to the Dardanelles-_a mat , er ot signal itnportance to England—affecting her commerce—affecting not only the tiavigation of the Euxine, but giving Russia a control °vet Greece and the entire Archipelago—it might be as well to state with brevity the treaties that existed between England and Turkey, and those that existed between 'Unit' and Turkey previous to that regarding which info, illation was demanded. By the treaty of 1675, concluded by Sir John Finch, the navigation of all the "Turkish seas was secured to England. In 1809, a little time after our rupture with the Porte, produced by the astack on the Dirdanelles, a new treaty was executed, by which the passage of the Dardanelles and the calm: of Constantinople was secured to England. The llth article provided that in time of peace no ship of war should oasis, no matter to what country it might belong. In 1774, by the treaty of Kaynadgi, the passage of the Dardanelles was first secur,d to Russian merchant vessels. In 1 780, a quarrel took place respecting an armed vessel. In 1 783, a new treaty was entered into, and another in 1792 (that treaty by which the Crimea, just like G us e , c a e, was declared independent, and then absolved in wastt rb d et o da t i t n i t i ee n da nt i ti n eh n ree ) l , ,pai a .o n tt d evc.et bi si b sh r i r fe t , l n i olyf t . reari es the passage having (i heir itnportance w e j B n o i dOn, Islandsß ssi he In we desired to acquire,elats in l o t 8 4, 15 e , themnot so from much a because ovv e r that aimed at predominance in the Mediterranean,) p entered into a treaty chant vessels of the Islantwisin:igehli Inthe 1812,passage to the mer e... the treaty of Bucharest was signed, b y Bessarabia was given , up to Russia, and all former treaties res were coat med. In 182 9, the t c r t e m at g y the of D A j dr d ia a' was signet, and with ri.spe c t to theDardanellet, .ined the following passage " 7th Article. The Sublime Porte declares the passage of the Canal of Constantinople completely free and open to ia ine rcli a nt-vessels under merchant flags, fro m th e Black Sea to ' the Mediterranean, and from the Mediterranean to the Black upon the same principle the passage is declares! free and open to all merchant vessels belonging to Powers at peace with the Porte. The Porte declares that under uo pretence what- uever will it throw any obstacle in the way of the exercise o 4 ,nis right, and engages above all, never hereafter to stop or detain vessels, either with cargo or in ball..st, whether Rus_ sail or belonging to nations with which the Porte shall not be as a state of declared war." In the maul puhli•hed by the Emperor Nicholas in she Ist of Octob-r, 1829, be srys The passage of the Dardanelles and the Bosphorus is ienceforth free and open to the commerce of all the nations of .he world." Thus the stipulation was that all nations at peace (note ee it observed, with Russia, but with the Porte), shook •njoy the right of unimpeded pabsage—but that bad been effected by the truly of tho Bth of July. Would It be said that nothing was accomplished by it? If so, wits was it sinned without the knowledge of our Amhassidor. And in a clandestine and surreptitious way ? What wer. its provisions? Did the public journals give a just ac count of it ? Was it true that it provided that no vessel beloneing to a power at war with Russia should enjoy the right? If so, the alteration wos palpable—and if then. were no express declaration to this effect, let there he an alliance offensive and defensive, and the Porte was bourn' to consider every enemy of Russia as its own—the con sequence was precisely the same as if the Porte surren tiered to Russia the possession of the Dardanelles, and the last of the Sultans was the first satrap of Nicho las the Great. There did not appear to be any sound reason for withholding this treaty. It had been the subject of remonstrance by France, of debate in the French Chem. her of diversified commentary in the public journals. Why withhold it ? There would be a strange inconsis tency in publishing all the enormous answers to protocols respecting Belgium, where the transaction was as yet in complete, and in refusing to furnish anything but mate vials for surmise on this treaty. Ponderous folios of fruit less negotiations on the affairs of Belgium had been given to the world. Let the government act upon the principle adopted in that case, and give the English people the means of forming a judgment of the policy which hie Majesty's ministers had adopted in a question where the national honour and interest were so deeply involved.— ( Hear, hear, hear.) The noble lord, although guided by the Prince of Benevento, had lost his way in thelabyrinth which Russia had prepared for him and Poland —(Cheers and laughter.) " We shall" he exclaimed, " remonstrate," Well, we did remonstrate, and despatched Lord Durham to St. Petersburgh (why was not Sir Stratfird Cinnine there ?—(Elear)and what has been the result?—(Cheers.) If confidence was to be entertained in the noble lord, it must be built on some firmer basis than his entertainment of the treaty of Vienna. Instead of calling on the people of England to confide in him, let him build his confidence in the English people. Our fleet could blow the Russian navy from the seas ; England was yet a mate!' for the Northern Autocrat, and there was might enough left in her arm to lay low the colossus by which the Hellespont was bestrid. The lion. and learned gentleman concluded by moving an Address to his Majesty, that he would be graciously pleased to direct that copies of any treaties between Turkey and Russia, since the year 1833, and of any correspondence between the English, Russian, and Turkish governments, respecting those treaties, be laid berore the house. The hon. member sat down amidst loud cheers from all parte of the house. Mr. H. L. BULWER seconded the motion. He did not altogether, in considering this question, lay so much stress upon the different treaties mentioned by the hon. and learned g-ntleman in his eloquent speech, because (as we understood him) lie looked upon treaties as a general propo-ition, rather as a declaration by powers making it, of what they considered their respective interests for the time being, than any thing else. What he would lay stress upon, and what this country at large, as well as other countries, laid stress upon, were the alarming practical demonstrations made by Russia in her inroad into Turkey, and all her subsequent proceedings. As far as the people at present understood of the policy of government in this particular, that policy was di-approved of, and it was therefore desirable that ministers, in their own vindica• tion, should explain themselves. It might possibly appear that the noble lord (Palmerston) had been overreached by the deep diplomacy of the Russi in court; but at present he was generally blamed for not having followed one of two courses—either that of leaving the Sultan and the Pacha to settle their disputes between them, by abstaining from interference themselves, and preventing other powers from interfering; or that of interfering in the open, de cided, and influent al manner which became the power and dignity of the British empire. Neither of these courses had been pursued, and the country was therefore very naturally anxious and entitled to have an explanation of the matter. The motion being put, Lord PALMERSTON, in rising to reply to the speech of the hon. and learned member, had certainly had no thing to complain of in the tone whtch that hon. and learned member had assumed in making ir, than which nothing could be more good-natured. The hon. and learned gentleman had said, that in moving for the pipers he intended to convey no blame upon the ministry; but he (Lord Palmerston) should not, however, feel it to be consis ent with his duty to agree to that motion, not even to that part of it which, though not in the original motion, the hon. and learned gentleman had introduced into his motion as now brought forward, because (as we under• stood) if the treaty were to be produced and discussed, it would also be necessary to produce all the papers connected with the transaction, which, under existing circumstances, lie could not do consistently with his official duty, or, indeed, with the general interests of the state. He had listened to the hon. and learned member with the greitest attention, but had not discovered any points on which he seemed to found any great degree of blame upon ministers. He had laid the greatest stress upon itiinisteis having refused to give to the Sulta n th at a i d w hi c h h e had asked • _ -- for towards the co n cl usion o f 1832 . I t would he - very easy to sa , isfy the hun. gentleman that iniiiisters were free from blame on thin point. The struggles between the S.,lran and the P Achrt commenced so far track as October, 1831 ; .he derisive action between their tioop4 took blare in December, 1832. It had not Ica:let-to been the custom of this country to be ready to inter fere in contests betw.-eo sovereigns and their subjec.s, as in the present case; for although the Pacha of Egypt was an powerful as to be, in point of fact, almost a a vereign in the particular s.ates under his control, yet this country, nevertheless, was still bound to consider him in no other light t ban as a subject of the Sultan's; nor liad any circumstance occur red in the course of the long-orotrnaed contest to. lead to the supposition that its result would in any way differ from the result of flamer contests of a similar charterer. The whole history of Turkey was little more than a series of revolts by powerful vassals, like Mehemet, against their Sovereigns, attended, of course, with various success, but generally terminating by the means of either force or negotiation, in the return of the vassal to his vassalage. There had been no grounds, in the first instance, for the ministers interfering in this instance any more than on former occasions. But as for the demand for aid men tioned by the hon. and learned gentlem ,n, this demand toad not reach: d England till November, 1832, and the decisive battle of Koniah took place in Decemb,r; and the house would at once perceive that it was a physical impossibility that any succours from this country, even naval succours, could have reached the Sultan in time to prevent this action. But there was ano:ber reason why succour had not been granted, which was, that at the time all our available force was employed upon hulls pensable business elsewhere. He might he teltl by those parties who disapproved of the steps we had taken in the transaction alluded to—the affair between Hod 'nil and Belgium—that our force being occupied in this business was no excuse for our non-in erference in the matter of Turkey. Those who approved of the policy of Go vetnment with reference to Belgium, would at once accept the explanation thus afforded. But though it was true that England had not interfered with its physical f tree on this occasion, it should not be forgotten that th s government had afforded its moral—the powerful aid of its moral force—and he had reason to know the commu nicator) made by this government to M (motet Ali and his son had in great measure produced the arrangement t e tween those Princes and the Sultan, which terminated the war. Titus it could not lie said that the British govern ment had taken no steps towards effec ing—attempting pacification. The hon. member had observed, that as we had not afforded aid to Turkey, we had no right to find fault wi'h Russia for affording it. Why, they did not complain of this ; on the contrary, they had expressed their satis action that Turkey had been so efficiently assisted by the Russians, who, it was fully understood, were to retire to their own country as soon as they had fulfilled their acts of service towards Turkey. This had been the confident expectation of the British government, nor had it been disappointed. The hon. member had complained that, for a length of time, there had been no ambassador from England at Constantinople. Timis was it mistake; for, within the time alluded to by the hon. aod learned member, Sir Stratford Canning had gone to Constantinople as ambassador on a special conimission with reference to the appointment of a King of Greece— a commission which that gentleman had most skilul.y ulfilied. There had, certainly, been a short period of time when there was no ambassador from England resi dent at Constantinople; for Lord Ponsonby, who had been opdointed to that high situation was prevented from going to Constantinopl y and detained at Naples hy the weather (as we understood).—(A laugh.) There was, however, 01l this time, a seeretaty of embassy at Constantinople, who attended to the British interests. With reference to the t reaty of July, which had been dwelt on by the hon. and learned member, this treaty had not reached this court for -Date tim e of er it had been made, although before the time (we understoo l ) at which it was to be ratified—namely. iii September. He would confess that, at first, the go vernment found many parts of the treaty very objection able, inasmuch as they appeared to give Russia some ad vantages over other countries--with respect to the navi 4stion of the Dardanelles particularly, which that empire had not possessed before. But he was equally bound to say, that in reply to our remonstrances, such exp:anations had been given both by Turkey and Russia, as had in a mat meatus altered the gentimento entertained on di!. point by his Majesty's government. The 9th article 0 1 the treaty of 1829, set firth that no Russian arme 'easels should pass the Dardanelles—with exceptions 'articular cases named ; anti it had at first appeared tha he treaty of July ha 1 altered this arrangement i, favour of Russian armed vessels ; but it appeared Iron subsequent explanations, that Russian armed vessels ha'' inly been put on a footing with the armed vessels n• ether countries. Mr. SHEIL (as we understood him) asked whether by the treaty of 1829, if England were at war with Russia, English vessels would not be prevented from pass in g the Dardanelles? Lord PALNIERSTON said that, by the treaty of 1829, all vessels of war, Turkey being at peace, wet prohibited from passing the Dardanelles, with cert iin ex eeptions, and the treaty of July made no difference in favour of the Russians. Mr. SHEIL asked whether, by the !ate treaty, if Ent► land were at war with Russia, Turkey would not h. hound to doge the D irdanelles against the English ships ? Lord PALMERSTON made an Wiservition w regard to this specific question, which we did norelearly collect, and repeated that though the treaty was no• altogether to the liking of this Government, the expla nations which had been given of parts of it had removed in erect measure their objection ; although they fit that it was a treaty which this Government should most carefully watch whenever there occurred any coitus fcederis, by which it came into operation. He thought. however, that by judicious policy on the part of this Government, which he considered should keep the golden mean between suspicion and unbounded confidence, this treaty would remain practically a dead letter. The hon. and learned member had desired to .know what had been the language of Russia towards England, and of England towards Russia? He could not in detail gratify the hon. memher's curins:ty, but could only inform him that the lanenage on both sides was such as best suited the dignity and good faith of a great country to give and receive. The hon. member had been mistaken in his account of the speech of Monsieur Bignon, and its reception by the Duc de Broglie, and it was right that this mistake should be corrected, in order that this sort of implied criticism should not occasion any unpleasant feelings between the two countries. The speech of Monsieur Bignon was in fact, a two-fold speech : one which be delivered in his capacity as the chairman of a committee, the other which he spoke as an individual member of the chamber. It was only to the former of these that the Due de B oglie had expressed his assent in the unqualified terms men. tioned by the hon. and learned member. He (Lord I'.) made this statement because he wished to clear up any misconception of the feelings entertained by the French Goiernment ; and here he could not omit saying how gratified he felt at the present very excellent understand. ing between this country and France, which appeared rapidly losing all their mutual jealousies and prejudices, and forming an alliance political anti national, which would materially improve both countries, and forward their mutual interests. The hon. and learned member would excuse him for not answering his questions as to why the combined fleets had quitted the Dardanelles or entered Smyrna, or why they had returned to Malta. He could only assure him that they had both gone and returned for gored and well-considered reasons—(A laugh) —aod he must also finally decline to produce the papers now moved for, and conclude by observing, that it had never been the custom of any Government to produce any papers which bore reference to a subject while that sub ject'was sill untlgr consideration as in the present case; and he, therefore, should oppose the hon. gentleman's motion. He hoped and trusted that peace would be maintained. It could be maintained only by that house having confidence either in his Alajesty's present ministers or in those who might be their successors; and as long as the house were pleased to think him and his colleague+ fit to regulate the foreign policy of the country, and to maintain its interests, he was sure they would not deny them the necessary confidence. If, however, the house had not sufficient confid owe in them to intrust to them the honour of the country, without calling upon them from day to day for the very last despatches—( Hear, hear) —let the house at once declare so, and let ministers retire. Confidence being fit in them they might not be cane! on to produce diplomatic correspondence rela.ing to negotiation., that were still pending.—(Cheers.) Colonel DAVIES thought that a question of greater impottance could not be brought forward. The noble lord said there were no sufficient grounds laid for the pre sent motion ; hut he (Colonel Davie) contended that all who wished to preserve the balance of power in Europe ought to view the treaty which had been referred to, and the course of Russi t, with great jealousy. The inva. ruble object of Russia since the days of Catherine had been aggrandisement. The noble lord had refused to assist the Sultan against Ibrahim Pacha, on the principle that he would not interfere between a Sovereign and his subjects. What, however, he would ask, had been the course at the battle of N.varin ? We ought to have pre. vented the conclusion of the unfortunate treaty of the Bth July. It' we had shown a disposii ion to assist the cause to Ibrahim Pacha, he would have been content with his eclogues sin S. ria The who'e cours e of p they pursued tiy Russia justified the conclusion that it was our ttoundeto duty to watch, with unceasing vigilance, the designs of that country.—(Hear. hear.) Colonel EVANS conceived that a great change having taken place in the natural relations of the states of Europe, w a quite a sufficient around on which to call for some explanation. Toe noble I ird asserted that it was nut in the power of Government to arrest tLe onward march I Russia. This might he the fart, but it did not at ail affect the right of the house to the information now d-manded The speech of the nohle lord h,d not at all altered h's (Col. Ev ins's) view of the question; indeed he must say, that 01 all the speeches he ever heard delivered by the no We lord in such subjects, he never before heart one has ,ti ory. There were two important grounds on which the noble lord had defended he British G , vernmenr. He stated that one reason why they had not interfered was, because there was not sufficient rime ; and secondly, it was declared that they wanted means—meaning thereby tnari. time and military forces, he presumed. It app.-tired, then. that our ereat expenditure to maintain sufficient forces, which, when autempts were mole to reduce it, was invari. a'.ly supported by a inference to the troubled state of Eutopean affairs, and to the (Jailer of not having it to resort to in the hour of need, on an occasion of real necessity arising, was found to be not available. TI e obvious conclu.ion was, that establishments so completely- useless ',tight to be re towed. He contended that there was abundance of dale for our filet to have arrived and given the necessary aid. He was gratified to hear born the noble lord that he did not approve of the treaty, and if it were only with refere , ce to the eliciting of 'that declaration from the noble lord, he thought the house ouAt to feel itself much indebted to his honourable and kilned friend (Mr. Shed) for calling their attention to it. This treaty bad made a mist decided alteration in the passage of the Dardanelles, and he contended that the noble lord's declared disapproval of it was an addi- tional argument in favour of the motion.—(l-1,, r , hear.) It was an additional reason why the trta , y should he laid before the house anti the country, when it might be seen whether it was an offensive and de.ensive treaty or not. The construction he put ❑pon it was, that if we were at war with Russia at any after time. Russia would bar the passage of the Drrdanelles to us. He would at once Ainit that he did not want confidence in the noble lord, or in government, as regard,of these affrirs; but lie hoped this good at least would result from the debate, that a strong expression of their feeling s on the suhj ct of the represen tatives of the peopl e would, so fir from embarras inn, strengthen the hands of government, and einboden them to speak in a tone that would not fail to have its due effect. The virtual independence of Tut key in Europe was nearly ac an end. With a view to its preservation, a force ought to have been sent to the Dardanelles. It would have been Well it government had fostered the growing power of Ibrahim Paella as a barrier to Russir. Sir R. PEEL said that the noble lord would have made a speech much more satisfietory, if he had limited himself to a simple declaration, as a responsible minirver of th e Crown, that it would he prejudicial to produce these than it p rove d to b e b y hi s attempting to support view by a course of reasoning. The noble lord wou!d have done w.dl to have taken the advice given by Lord Mansfield to a military governor who was ab,ut to become chancellor of one of the colonies. His lord shif,, a ddressing the governor, s iii, " Give your decision. but never trust yours e i with giving a reason."—( Hear, and a laugh.) All the re rsoning of die noble lord he (Sir R. Peel) mast say was utterly without foundation. The no , le lord eulogised the speech of the hon. and I -arned gentleman—he complimented it as au diluent sp ech— he descrined it as an amusing speech—and to 'night have added, that it was an almost unanswerable speech. He (Sir R. Peel) did not sly that the hon. and learned gen leman's speech was unanswerable, but he wou d declare that it was unanswered. Toe noble lord said that the call for three papers would be like calling on the govern. went from day to day to produce their last despatches. Why, he (Sir R. Peel) would ask, w is that the course on foreign aff.irs which had been heretofore taken by the house! --(H ar, hear.) Was there ever a public repr, +tentative body that had exhibited so much confi fence— bad ever shown more forbearance—that bad ever left open so wide the door to a government leaving them so totall) without inferntation—sa utterly in the dark as tlie presen presentative body had been left by the present minister. —(Cheers.) Was it not notorious that thee hail been of li rd t o collect it& ormatioin from wlt•a+ was divulged in tl C iamber P-ers a . .alee e.'.,' *ran n;red throne •he Gazettes of E gland ere ) The noble for a'ated that they ought not to 'reel'••• information as t heir foreign policy till tt e a ff-iee e ere .etotel. If me ,eenteling to the present aspect of thine., there W,s lint ehence of their having it for some tint o. The noble lot• deo declared that these papers could not be called ft , vithout implying blame of the government; lu' he (S R. Peel) would assert, that these papers might be ca 1,, r„r without implying any blame.—(Hear, hear.) The• were asked to vote the estimates ; and was it not nail, ral and proper that they, the representatives of a ere. eatinn, hound to provide its expenditure, should ask fe - nformation in a matter of such considerable importanc. is affecting their expenditure? Was it not their defy t• Ascertain what was the prospect of peace, or what th chance of that evil—the worst of all evils to be deplored— the chance of tear? But they were told that these paper could not he produced, because the affairs were unsettled. So were the affairs of Belgium unsettled, and yet paper* were produced. Lord PALMERSTON—The treaty was signed. Sir R. PEEL—True, the treaty was signed ; but. he would ask, did that conclude the transicion ?—(Hear hear.) Then with regard to Portugal —was the negotie tion there ended ? Did not the noble lord give informatin' as to the state of affairs between this country and Raven! and did the production of those papers imply blame? Wa' the production of those papers because the treaty was co► - eluded? No such thine. Tne papers were furnished because it could not be then said that affairs were trembling in th balance—because the giving of them would he nn prejudice to pending negotiations. He (Sir Robert Peel) hei non answered two of the noble lord's objections. He lea' made a third to the effect that explan itions bad take, place which bad considerably mitigated the provisions o the treaty. Again, he would ask, could there be a now, conclusive reason why they should have the papers move for ?—(Hear, hear.) Must it not be of first-rate imp., . ance to know what those explanations were, and to reedit, them from an authentic source, rather than through certain unrecognised channels? The hon. and learned member for Tipperary (Mr. Sheil), affirmed that this treaty hail excited considerable alarm. The noble lord, on the con trary, told them that the alarm was groundless—that be bad received some information which, to his mind, •atis. factorily explained away what else would have just!, excite-I apprehension: but, nevertheless, the noble load refused to acquaint them wi'h the explanations--explana. tinns by which it apPeared all the alarm might be allayed. .—(Cheers.) The noble lord's faun!' reason for not grant ing the papers 'vas, that he attended more to the acts of uarties than to their treaties, or to their language. That he admitted, might he a very good reason for withholdine an angry correspondence originating, perhaps, in anxiety and alarm, and ended, possibly, in satisfactory explanation. The quarrel having terminated, it would be well not to rake up the dying embers; but the noble lord might, at all events, let them know what the conclusion was.- (Loud cheers.) The noble lord might let them know what was the termination of what had excited alarm, that they might be able to judge what tf , eir present relations were, and what their future relations were likely to be. It was the opinion of the noble lord that this case was open, and so would continue to be—that the treaty never would be acted on. To be sure this, an off•nsive and defensive treaty, if we remained at peace, might ne• ver take the effect—but if a war broke out between Rita sia anti Eegtand, it was as certain, that, in that case, Russia would have the power of compelling the closing of the Dardanelles. He would admit the probability that the Dardanelles would always remain open—that the casus foederis would never occnr—but a war taking place. and this treaty remaining in force, what should we gain by having acquiesced in the treaty ?—( Hear, hear.) lo was clear it was framed only as contemplating a case of war.—(Cheers.) It would remain in the scabbard until a war occurred, and then it might be drawn—and whet, such an event occurred. the nob e lord would, no doubt very sincerely, express his sorrow to find himself mistaken. But if, after all, the noble lord declared that the pap•re ceuld not he produced without injury to the public service, giving such reasons as he (Sir R. Peel) hail remarked on for not producing them, he' might think the minister sat declaring a very bad and inconclusive reasoner—yet he would pay that attention to his declarations as a minister which be could not pay to his reasoning.—(A laugh and cheers.) He remarked that the noble loud said lie re. jeieed that R'ts•ia came forward to protect Turkey. He regretted to hear the noble lord so express himself. Fr•m the moment he, a minister of the crown, made the declaration in the face of the country, that he re juiced in tlie coining forward of Russia for the protection of Turkey, it appeared to him that we abandoned all right to complain oo Russia as h tying destroyed the inde peodence of Turkey. The assistance rendered by Russia to that country he considered fatal to its inde pendence. Even though Russia withdresv her troop., the moral independence of that power would be destroyed. The noble lord add he did not receive an application to assist Turkey till the month of Novetnb.•r ; and this was given as a reas in why the assistance could not be fur niched in time. What, though a great battle was fought in July. was his Majesty's government se ignorant of the wire of the too parties, that it was necessary to wait for a formal application hor assistance ?—(Cheets ) Were we so ignorant of what was passing in the Levant, that we could net counsel Turkey —that we mould in .h o no offer of assistance, but were Obliged to wait till we hail a forma. proposal to that effect ?—( Hear, hear.) Then they were told that when t e application did arrive, our fleet was eneage3 in inforcing a Dutch embargo, and not in inter• fering in the internal affaus of Portugal ; nothing of the kind—(A laugh)—but in defending British interests at the mouth of the Tagus. The treaty was the indemnity which Russia had taken for the assistance she had ren dered, and was almost the inevitable consequence of her rendering that assistance. It tran.pired, toe, t •at during this crisis there way not ambassador tot represent this coun try at Constantinople. Tuere was to he an amt•assad •r charged to represent us there ; but lie could not effect his passage from Naples to Constantinople, such were the perils of the voyage, such the danger's of those oceans, in less than six montlis.—(Curers.) Though a British man• of war was waiting for him the whole of that time, so tempestuous were the seas of those inhospitable shores, that a British atnbassaolor could not venture on them. He knew that this was the case in former times, whet. they were boos advanced in navigati in titan we were at the present day. " Otium Divos rogat in patenti Prensus fEgwo, afoul atra nubes Condidit lunam, neque ceria fulgent Sidera nautia." The right hon. gentlem teen adverted to the eulogiureis that had been passed on France, as acting in concert with this country ; and he remarked, that he did not see why our eyes should tie faced exclusively on an alliance with France. Though he adinived it was of first-rate in.. portance that we should continue on friendly relation, with that power, he did not think we ought on that account to withdraw ourselves from all other powers. Then the noble lord had appeared to favour a referenc'• t.. the debates in the Coutinber of Deputies, which he (Si R. Peel) should have thought he would rather have die countenanced. As regarded the policy of France be would ask was it not th„ common impression in Eurnp that Ibrahim Pacha, with a secret understanding who France, teas acting against Russia? Inrahtm Pacha's army was officered by Fienchinen. He did not mean to say there was a formally recognised alliance ; but that, in point of fict, there was a sanctioning and encouraging ; and, if so, he could understand why the English vernment, acting as it did with the French govern ment, acted on the principle of forbearance to the ex tent that he bad seen. On the other hand could Franc• complain of the interference of Russia with Tui key, abet. The course herself had pursued towards ALiers ? (Cheers.) If after the derlar itions of Louis Pirlip France nitrated to take permanent possession of Algiers, it was impossible for her to hold the high language t. Russia that she could otherwise have usef. Iu conch, sion, he said that the treaties threatened danger, and w ought to have the exp atiat , ons. These the British go vernment ought to give, and not leave them to be ad lected from foreign newspapers arid the debatca in th. French Cit:m , ters.—(Hear, hear.) Air. STANLEY sail that the right hon. baronet, it. adverting to what had f illen from his noble friend on th. •11 hieet Of the good understanding between France an , 111,gland, had admitted the the importance of that goo undeistamtbrig being hely. (11r. Stanley.) did cet tiinly c incur with his nibl , Iri nd in thinking that t continuance of that uniler-tanding between th- two mu fill, most etilightvned, and 'oust states i Euripe, was a mater which the friends heedom shoul 114i1 with congr itulation.—(Hear, heir.) It tees of En. utmost importance to ihe cause ot wise, enlightened, an. proteipl,s in Europe, that two ~ucti states ii u:, be engLed in dos. and friendly connection.—(Cileern. Tile right bon. baronet said lie would not enter into ti,, question of Algiers; but he seemed to think that Franc, was ~isp.meti to keep permanent possession of it. fie wool, not di,cu , the point, but Wow(' bay that the question ufa wits, just where it was wne,p, the right tin. b don qu tte,l otiice.--(Hear, hear.) Tire gooniou was j ai it, same doubtful situation in which it had beet, wtee, light ho ;. I. --!t Ale, A. to he wore deter tainatioe Fi ai;ce with respect tai the pi.s.es i,u of that coMily, Le would only 8 y that if there was v nati , n to tt hcla the ahandenment of A 'giets by ' , sere should be a subject of rejeicing, i w odd t e to :nee itself. He must add, that its pnFiscssion by France • a n a i la r l „ fr e t f ivil z,tion. roicEwnagan was ready or ady to the i to the inte t i t r h e a s t ts of his a 'We fiend had not called in question for a moment l ea kind forboa ranee which that house had exLi t tial as to calling for information on mmy impor t ant sat jets connected with our foreign reliatiens 'ie the h0p..., he took for granted, felt the difficulties in 'hic Tl his Majesty's government was placed by the con ethm of affairs in the East—difficulties which were t o' their own creation, and which were bequeathed them as a happy legacy by their predecessors in office.-- ' Rear, hear.) 1 , was well knoe n to the house that the Free questions—that bettveen Beleium and Holland. ti 4l t r hating to Portugal end the affair of Turkey—wete left n anything but a satisfactory sate. The right hon. barn et, out the other side, said that the papers now sought 'ir might be produced, and might even be demanded by e horse, without there being, in consequence of such a demand, any censure even implied against the A'lm;ni.trra inn ; but that was not alone the question, for there was aim connected with it this other consideration, that no pro. ter stage in the proceedings had been arrive] at, at which say disclosures could with safety be made, and he confessed it tppeared to him rather strange that the right hon. baronet .bouhl have made no attempt to reconcile the appat• nt, ‘ infla as he would contend, real inconsistency, which lay ;n the demand for papers on the one hand, and on the .ther the full admission that even the tendency of a nego. - iation should not be unfolded until it was brought aech a stage, at least, as that the progress already made mull not be rendered nugatory and profitless. He did ;lot at all forget how it had been argued that the patters elating to the negotiations in the case of Belgium, and in that of Portugal, were produced before either of those questions were settled ; but he begged the house also nit to forget that a certain point had been attained in ach of those negotiation ,, , and that in the first of them no munmunications to Parliament were made until it became •iecessary to transmit the ratification of a treaty. That, us the house must well know, was a matter which of ne -o:airy the government were bound to lay before them. Front the other side they had been taunted thus---" You cave the house the papers in the ease of Portugal.' He would answer, so we did, but that proceeding on the part of the governnent was in order to justify the bias. rile demonstration made on the part of this country against Don Miguel. It was in defence and vindication if that proceeding that the pap-rs were produced. His nable friend (the Secretary for Foreign Affiirs) had told -he house, most truly, that the negotiations relative to Turkey had not arrived at any such termination, and that simple statement contained within itself the most set feet anstver which could by any possibility be given to the demand for papers made by the hon. and learned mem ber for Tipperary. Nevertheless, in the very face and front of that answer, the riaht lion. baronet oppo.ite con tended that if the production of the papers did not of necessity involve results which would amount to a com plete breaking up of the whole negotiation, they ought a a be laid upon the table of that house. That certakly was language which lie heard with surprise, and it implied sentiments which he fully believed would not be responded to by any consid •ral le portion of the members of that house. They had already been infarmed 'hat remonstrances had been made en behalf of this country, and explanations received more or has satisfactory. The correspondence on the subject of those explanations had not yet been closed, and it would obviously be productive of infinite embarrassment, and at the same time serve no good portion any tiurp purpose, were f w t e h r e e p t a h p e er t s l un e t r i n l m t h e e n t o whole l a ,,i y: e b r o e f c o o r e in P p l a e r t l e i a . m ent But the right hon. gentleman went back to the year 1831, and called upon Ministers to justify the whole of their proceedings from that period to the present—to produce the last despatch re ceived, and their answer to that communication ; and then be suddenly demanded of them to state why they had waited till Turkey called upon them?—why they had not at once sent forth their fleets and armies, and put a stop to encroachment ? or at least, he asked, why did not this country tender its ad vice, and send out an ambassador ? Triumphantly did the right hon. baronet ask, was there any ambassador at the Court of Turkey ? That triumph might have been spared, fir it was founded upon an assumption altogether without foundation. It might be perfectly true that there was not at the Ottoman Court any diplomatic agent bearing the rank of ambassador ; but was it thence to be inferred that this country was altogether unrepresented at Constantinople? In his judgment quite the contrary. Nay, he was e to state that the fact was not so; but then the right hon. baronet inquired, why had not England interposed its advice before the powerful vassal of Turkey had raised his rebellious standard against the su. preme ruler of that empire ? To that he found that he could give a most perfect answer ; and he knew likewise, that if he retorted as he might, the observation would be made that a retort was no answer; and yet he could not refrain from say ing that during a long interval in the years 1828 and 1829, after the battle of Varna and the treaty of Adrianople, there was no ambassador from this country to the Sublime Porte—that was a period in which no friendly advice was given to that power by England—that was a period in which our firm friend, our ancient ally, was left without counsel or assistance, and Russia all the while permitted to col:ect and concentrate her forces, and conclude the treaty as she best might. He f illy concurred in the opinion that sou rithe lie,drdo;:tort!,eai progress England gf I w ibar e n : d l h should as t : , e a d a a o s a t im o fnao di obvious mosorhfn Adrianople fl id u r e o oe h, ri :_ te pa ul o n h ot t u r , ce e w s hof p l i t e , rba oe no . em ' e A , f et i l p 'i f r oui t t ' Are c ti ss ,r h e w l tice atmi friend frbt impede ta h : icoei permitted an actual declaration of war, and it was equally certain that t t t t e is totl to e r ) acitotiorcocg, Franceconfessed isawasatet Francel e called dee i appear effected to rs synti a ogot d hln o ahe l l tmdint troops h hat his being well pleased at the interference of Russia am unted to a concession of the whole question. He would entreat the house .to take the trouble of reflecting upon the state of our foreign affairs at the period under niscussion. At that moment, though said to be one of profound peace, the strength of this country was diffused over two separate naval occupa tions—namely, the Downs and the Tagus, and lion mem bers opposite appeared to be exceedingly discontented that Great Britain could not find force for a third in the Mediterranean Those, then, who admitted the validity 9 1- that argument as against the armed interference of England, with only a peace establishment, in the affairs of Turkey, must aesnowledge at the same time that she acted with perfect con. sistency, with wisdom, and with good policy, in concur, ing with Russia to protect and preserve Turkey.—(Hear.) Those who admitted that, and lie held it to be a position indisputable, must acknowledge that when Russia stood in such a (elation towards Turkey, this country had no reason to expect that she would take advantage of that situation to make a treaty to her own advantage —a secret treaty, not merely as had been re presented, to her own advantage, but if all they had heard was to be received implicitly, to the great disadvantage of all other Powers. Had such a treaty been made, he shout, not hesitate to say that it would in nowise be discreditable I England, while it would have been disgraceful to Russia. He was perfectly ready to agree with the right hon. baronet that such a treaty, if iaken according to the account given tot t house, was one which could not be advantageous to England; but the distinct and positive assurance both of Turkey and Russia enabled him to state that that description of the treaty could not be given. The effect of the treaty was to enable Russia, in the event of a war, to demand of Turkey the closing of the Dardanelles against the armed vessels of either belligerents. Had the arrangement been to open them to Rus sia, and close them against all other powers, then, indeed, would the case have been different, and, pro tanto, it would have been an advantage to Russia, for it would have been conceding to her a possession of the Dardanelles to all practical pur poses. Before that treaty Turkey might close the Dar danelles aga nst bota or neither of the belligerents; the effect of the treaty was that she should, on the breaking out of war,be bound to close them against all foreign vessels. He would never attempt to say that was not an advantage to Russia, but it was nothing in the remotest degree resembling what had been re. presented. It might, and lie could not deny but that it would, prove an advantage to Russia to obtain that sort of protection for the ports of the Black Sea ; but that by no means amounted to the power of open ng and shutting the Dardanelles at the pleasure of Russia, to the advantage of some powers, and to the man ,fest injury of others. From Russia and Turkey they had received upon that head the fullest and most satisfactory expla nation, which did away, in his opinion, with all the objections which had been urged against the treaty. It had been asked, what did England gadl by the acquiescence ? That was a wide and complex question, into which he did not suppose that the house would then expect him to enter. The house perhaps would feel that he oug not. This was their plain cast. "-' " the sanction of England, and with the view of sec uring front Mehemet Ali the possible chance of occupying Constantinople, ed ava h i e i i r na a l s , s e is r t s a e n i f c o e r t t i o ,e F si r t a u t a ic ti e oi a , litnd u E .h n i g c l h an si d le ; ti a l e n , d l et! to have formed a treaty with the Sultan, which countries in closer relations towards each oth, , r : s ilhi t ar. U jg' od before, and thereupon remonstrances were male t ß ith i aeu, oi s n,nc s id i t, a hi bes. a 3: ff a, an the part of England and explanations given on the part of Aussiaami Turkey which removed the principal objection to the a. rangement. The negotiations were still in progress ; e correspondence had lint been brought to a close, and was AD, much then to ask some forbearance on the part of Parliament— a forbearance in all former times shown to the Ministers of the grown in the conduct of a difficult and delicate neg.itiation? He hoped, therefore, that the house would not depart .rom.ti visual practice ui calling for the premature disclosure of ana r_ rangeinent riot yet cimpleted.—(l-lear, hear.) Mr. C. FERGUS3OS considered the treaty as injtirious•to England, and derogatory to the rest of Europe. If tile treaty was i jurious to E.igland, there was no explaoation whicacoustl 02 given by the two parties to Lat treaty which coula renaer it unlojecLionable. .111 r. 'STANLEY said that the question was, wheth:m t! cited of the treaty was, in refereae to the pats_ig, of tile Dardanelles, that Russian ships were or were nat to k.,e csin.