The Sun. — London, England, 1834-03-15 00:00:00

-~ IMPERrAL PARLIAMENT. HOUSE OF LORDS, MARCH 14. OBSERVANCE OF THE S BRATH. The Bishop ofSi:ASAPH presented several peti tions from parishes in the county of Montgomery, for the better observance of the Sibbath. MALT DUTIES. Lord KENYON presented a petition from Bridgnorth. praying for the repeal of the malt tax, and that an addi tional duty mieht be placed upon beer. With respect to the first part of the prayer of the petition, he was of opi nion that the removal of the malt tix would he a good boon to the agriculturist. On the other part of the peti tion, however, 1 e would eive nn opinion. The Earl t f ORFORD presented several petitions from the owners and occupiers of land in the county of Norfolk, praying for a total repeal of the malt •ax. CHURCH AND STATE. The l)uke of WELLINGTON presented a petition fr m the town of Chard, expressive of the attachment of the petitioners to the Church of England and their anxious desire that in any measure that might he brought forward for the reform of that c hurch. its rights might be held sacred and inviolable. The noble duke in presenting the petition Miser ved,that considering all that had passed on the sulject in the country—considt - rine that one class of the dissenters from the church of England bad expressed an anxious desire that there should be a separation between church and state —considering also that another class of dissenters were willing to accept of more moderate terms, he was not astonished that many persons of this country, the friends of the church of Eng iand, should feel the utmost anxiety at the present moment with respect to the rneesure likely to come under the consideration of the house on the subject. He, for one, could not help expressing his anxiety upon the point, although be had the utmost confidence in the speech delivered by his Majesty from the throne, and also in the declaration of the noble eirl opposite. The Bishop of BATH and WELLS, in supporting the prayer of the peti ion, bore testimony to the great re spectability of the petitioners, and the weight their peti tions were entitled to in the house. Ni. one was a greater lover of the Church than himself, but he thought there might be some things in the discipline of it whirls might be altered and amended for the benefit of the church itself. The Duke of WELLINGTON then presented similar petitions from Cardiff and several ether pl tees. AGRICULTURAL DISTRESS. The NOBLE DUKE presented several petitions from dif ferent parts of the county of Norfolk. complaining of agri cultural distress, and praying for relief. OBSERVANCE OF THE SABBATH. The Bishop of CHICHESTER presented a petition from the Archdeacon and Clergy of Chichester, praying for the introduction of a measure for the better observant , of the Sabbath. The right rev. prelate observed, that it was not the desire of the petitioners to interfere with the en joyments of their fellow-subjects. What they wished was, that such temptations as gin and beer shops should he removed. The right rev, prelate stated his belief that those places had been productive of the most serious result to the morals of the people. The Earl of ROSEBERRY presented a petition against church patronage in Scotland. The Bishop of BANGOR presented several petitions from several parts of North Wales for the better observance of the Sabbath. The Earl of DURHAM presented a petition from Stockton-upon-Tees, most numerously signed and agreed to at a public meeting, praying for a re form in the established church, the granting to tl e dissenters the remov4l of the disabilities under which they laboured, and for the pa , sing of an act to repeal all rates and compulsory payments towards the church. The noble earl presented 37 petitions from the dissenters of different parts of Northumbetland, Yorkshire, Monmouthshire, and Staffordshire, praying for relief. Also, three peti tions from Oswestry, and other places, in the county of Salop, for the better observance of the Sabbath. Earl CAWDOR presented petitions from the Protes tant Dissenters of Abergavenny and Cardigan praying for relief. THE LIBRARY. On the motion of the Marquis of LANSDOWNE, an humble address was agreed to be presented to his Majesty, pray ing that his ALjesty would be pleased to give direction. that certain alteraions might be made in the library, agreeably to the recommendation of the select committee appointed to consid..r the su.kct. PRINTING PAPERS. TheNoBLE MARQuis postponed his motion which stood for to day, on the subject of the best mode of printing the papers of that house till Thursday next, in consequence of a communication he h d received on that suhjet•t. On the mi•tion of the Earl of SHAFTESBURY, the Sugar Duties Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be committed on Monday. The Marine Mutiny Bill was read a third time, and passed. The Luke of RICHMOND lad on the table some papsts onnected with the Post-office, agreeably to an older of the hnuse. On the motion of the NOBLE DUKE, the Canada Pest office Bill went through a committee, and was reported to the house without amendment. To be read a third time on Monday. The house then adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. MICR 14. The SPEAK P.ll did not take the chair until 25 minutes past five o'clock. The returns from the office of the Accountant-General were l,id on the table. Petitions were presented from the inhabitants of Upper Thames-street, respecting the approaches to the New London Bridge, by Alderman Wool); from Middlesex, for the building of a bridge over the Thames at Staines; from Hampstead, for the better observance of th- Sabbath-day ; from the pariah of St. James, Westminster, for the paving and cleansing the same, ► y Mr. BYNG. Mr. BUCKINGHAM gave notice that on the 22d May he would introdure a bill for the suppression of the practice of duelling : also on the 27th March for an inquiry into ti .e causes of habitual drunkenness among the lower orders of the pe ple. The hon. member then presented a petition from the Protestant Dissenters of Wig in, against the union of church and state. Mr. GEORGE EVANS presented a petition from a person named (we believe) Thomas Goold, in the county of Middlesex, against the great western railway. A petition was presented from the dissenting congrega tion of the chapel of Ebenezer-lane, Knaresborouglt, by Mr. RICHARDS. Mr. O'CONNELL presented a petition from Newfound ] ind, from an individual named James Kidd, complaining of severe treatment experienced by him from the local authorities of that place, on the 25th December last. The learned member said he had laid the matter belore the right hon. Secretary of State, but having received no satisfac tory reply, he had thought it bis duty to bring the petition before the house. CASE OF LAURENCE DUNDAS. Mr. O'CONNELL said, that io consequence of the statements made by him in that house a few nights since, he had received a letter from Laurence Dundas, dated Liverpool, March 7, 1834, which he would read with the permission of the house. The honourable and learned member proceeded to read the letter, itrhich stated that the writer did not expect that he t (Mr. O'Connell), one of whose constituents be was, could have brought such serious charges against hint, without having given him an opportunity of explaining them, which be should be able to do, if permitted. The oc currences had taken place nearly seven years since, and it would be difficult for him now to bring forward facts to prove his innocence, but he had given bail to appear to the charges preferred against him, which were made many years since; and he could prove that he had never been a defaulter in his accounts to the amount of 3001 , much less 11,0001., as imputed to him in the re port which he had seen in the public papers ; that he never had committed any intentional error in his accounts, and that his object in procuring the situation of which he had been deprived, was merely to provide for the support of a large family; that he thought it right in justice to the respectable individual who had recom mended him to Mr. Stanley, to state, that that Gentleman was not aware that he had ever held any situation in the Irish constabulary ; that he thought it hard that Mr. O'Connell should be leagued with enemies, whose object it was to injure his family, to have him dragged before the public, seven years after the matter had occurred ; and finally, that he respectfully called upan Mr. O'Connell to make this state ment in that house, and allow the public to judge between them —(Hear, hear.) The hon. and learned member had observed, that he was not before aware that Du as, .liad ever resided in the city of Dublin, but i v duty, as he had received the letter, t6,do tvo thl'"g-. sa,2flist, to read the letter, on the earliest house,it • d • • v" , : f oppornin,w, xtir - .oat as contained very distinct rand bold assertions of innocence, and then to make inquiries of tlite.6iitleman who bath been called his informer, as to the A., ... facts which bad bran communicated to him, and he thongi.t it but justice to that gentleman to read his reply. The member then read the letter, which stated that in the year .024 the magistrates of Wexford wrote , to Lord .‘ I Melbourne, apprising him that they believed a very seri ous defalcation had taken place in the accounts of Mr. Dondas. Mr. Gregory replied refusing the application investigation ; in a subsequent letter Mr. G. said he had investigated the cliarg-, which had proved to be ground] as—that an investiga•ion had at length taken place at the Castle of Dublin, Ina the witnesses not having been sworn, did not tell the truth ; and it was ascertained , hat a witne , s named Powel, who held a similar office, had given Dundas 101. to go off to Lon on— that Powel subsequently acknowledged that every thing he had stated on the investigation was false. Dundas said he was ill, and asked leave to wiihdraw, which was agreed to, and next day Dundas not having appeared, a warrant was issued by the magistrates for his apprehension, as Powel confessed that he had forged the names of stationers to accounts which were supposed to have been settled, and I ad made false returns and vouchers as to the number of men and horses. Warrants were sent to the several packet offices after Dundas, bur in vain ; and it was then admitted by Powel that the irregulari•ies in the police establishment of Wexford existed in every county in Leinster, mire or less, and that the sum which had been over charged in the county of Wexler!, far the four years during which Powel and Dundas acted in that county amounted to no less then 800/. per annum, making a sum of 3,2001., one half of which had been lost to the public, and the other half to the county.—(Hear.) The letter he had just read was signed by Mr. Wa ker, member for the county of Wexford. He had also been furnished with certain documents from the member for the town of Wexford, but still he felt bound to move for a copy of the warrant that had been issued against Mr. Laurence Dundas, formerly chief constable of Wexford, and a statement of the pro ceedings that had been taken upon that warrant, of the prosecution if any that had followed, and the manner in which such prosecution had terminated. In doing so, he disclaimed having the slightest personal feeling on the subject. He had heard of all these circumstances, anb could not help laying a statement of them before the proper quarter. Mr. HUME gave notice of his intention to bring in a bill to repeal the statute of the 6 , 11 Goo. 111., chap. 9. GENERAL REGI-TRY. Mr. W. BROUGHAM brought in a bill for the esta bliohment of a general regiotration office of all deeds to lating to real rooperty. The bill was read a first time, and the hon. gentleman gave notice that he would move the second reading on (as we understand) Monday next. COURT OF EXCHEQUER. Sir J. GRAHAM. in moving that the house resolve itself into a committee upon the bill he had inttoduced, affecting the Court of Exchequer, and the compensation to be made to 'ome of the officers of that court, hoped the house would excuse him from entering into the details cf the measure until the house was actually in committee. Mr. GOULBURN submitted whether it would not be more regular f,r the right hon. gentlemen to make a statement of the substance of the measure first ? Sir JAMES GRAHAM believed that the course he proposed to adopt was quite consistent with the forms of the house. ADJOURNMENT OF THE HOUSE. Lord ALTHORP hoped the house would excuse him for a moment while he stated that it bad been suggested to him it would be convenient for hon. members to know ,t what time the house should adjourn for the holidays, and that it had ben proposed to him by many gentlemen that it should adjourn over to the 14th of April. The only difficulty be had at first felt with respect to that was that if that was done they would adjourn ever a motion of considerable importance, notice of which had been givi n by the hon. member for Colchester, with respect to pensions but he (the noble lord) had had a communication with that hon. member, and lie had stated that lie had not the least objection to take a future day for his motion, and therefore be had agreed with him, that if the house should consent to a , journ till the 14th of April, he (the noble lord) would be quite ready to secure to him the following day, which would be Tuesday the 15th of April, for his motion. It might appear wrong to take a very long adjournment, but he stated that from the forward state of the business they might adjourn over till 'Monday, the 14th of April ; but if the house bad any ob jection to that, he, of course, should not ask it. Mr. O'CONNELL said that he had a motion which stood for the 15tb, and therefore it would be too soon to bring it on after the meeting of the house.—(Cries of No, no.") tie was quite ready to agree to the 24th.— (Repeated cries of "No, no.") Gentlemen might say "No, no," but he said " Yes, yes," for he wanted gentlemen over from Ireland before be brought on his motion ; therefore he would, with the permission of the house, take the 22d of Apt il for it. Lord ALTHORP said the adjournment would take Place on the Wednesday in Passion week, which was the 26th of this month It the hon. member for Dublin did what he proposed, namely, hying forward his motion on the 221, it would be very easy for the hon. member fjr Colchester to take the 15th for his motion. CALL OF THE HOUSE. Mr. SPRING RICE would tike that opportunity of stating, for the convenience of the hou , e, that he shou d in the course of the evening di.charge the order for the call of the house on the 15th, and move that the house be called over on the 22d of April. GAME LAWS. Mr. CRIPPS begged to ask the noble lord whether it was the inten , ion of his Majesty's government to make any alteration in the present state of the game laws ? Lord ALTHORP replied that it was not. '1 he hotise then went into committee, Mr. BERNAL in the chair. Sir JAMES GRAHAM said he had to thank the house for not haying before called on him to detail the provisions of the bill to which he was about to call their attention.—(Hear, hear, hear.) He was sorry that the subject was placed in his hands ; but lie felt pence ly convinced that the importance of the subject would be a sufficient apology. In the fir.t plat. , he would state to the house why he was the individual selected to bring before them. It was because he oas one of the commissioners appointed by his 111+31 to in quire into the state of the public accounts, over which commission his right bonourAle friend, the m.-nib t for Dundee (Sir H. Parnell), resided. Th.t right hon. gentleman was then a no mher of his Majesty's go. vernment, hnt as ministers had not now the good fortune to number him as one of themselves, it was considered most proper that the subject should he conducted by a member of the government, and there fore he, as one of the commis ioners, waa appointed to introduce it. In the next place he owed it to the committee to give some explanation of the circumst inces attending the introduction of a measure which was con templated by the predecessors of the present government, not in detail, but in principle. In the first place he would state that the importance of the measure required that it should receive an anxious and maturedeliberation, and in the outset he would allude to a circumstance which was ad verted to on the face of the report, viz., the difficulty which attended the commissioners respecting the late auditor of the Exchequer (Lord Grenville). However, the subsequent death of that distinguished indivi dual, not only removed that difficulty, but ren dered it absolutely necessary to make some other arrangement. He would now state the principle of the bill under consideration. The main provisions were founded on the report of the commissioner-. He would first state the object of the change—next ti e nature of that ci at ge—and, 3411 y, the means by which it was to be effected. It appealed to the committee, and it ap peared also expedient to the government, to introduce such a change in the whole frame of the Exchequer as to abolish all the existing offices, and also to alter the whole mode of conducting the business of that department. The bill which lie would introduce would abolish the of flees of Auditor of the Exchequer, Clerk of the Pelk, and Tellers of the Exchequer. He had opened to the house the great changes he was about to make ; it would b • only necessary for the committee to consider what had here tofore been the duties of the Exchequer to be convinced of the importance of the measure under discussion. From the earliest period, from the Norman conquest, the Exchequer had been the great conservator of the public revenue. It had not only the duty of receiving and paying the public money, but from time immemorial they bad exercised the duty of controlling the office of Lord High Treasurer. He was bound to say, though its operations were tardy, and the machinery cumbrous, yet it had generally Effected its object. No great frauds had been committed upon the revenue; on the contrary, many frauds had been suc cessfully checked. And on many occasions of great impor tance the auditor of the Exchequer had exercised a control over the Executive, and exei titled a strict attention over the appropriation of the public money. It might be asked, since be made so large an admission, why he was about to introduce so extensive a change? He tr.ought if the house consid; red that the rnachinely which this hilt would abolish was so cumbrous, and so inappropriate to the present day, they would be satisfied that the moment was come when it was expedient to alter the form and constitution of th e Exchequer, in order that it might be better en abled to effect the great object for which it was instituted. The present ey stem of the Exchequer had its origin in dines when the securities now in use were unknown ; when banks ' , Wink checks, and bank papers bad not come into • me. The accounts were kept in a manner known only to the Exchequer itself, and the whole system was so an tiquated that, with every respect for our ancestors, we must acknowledge that the time was surely come to remove them. The bill, he would add, contemplmed the abolition of all those forms which it was needless to relate and useless to describe, and also to abolish that which the hon. member for Middlesex had often com plained of—viz., the system of fees. Having thus stated the outline of the system which was to be abolished, it only remained for him to state which offices would be created under the new oill ; and first, it was proposed in lieu of the auditor, to appoint a comptroller of the Court of Exchequer.—(Cries of " Hear, hear.") In cases of sickness, or unavoidable absence of the comp troller, an assistant to be appointed, who would be competent to discharge the functions that devolved on the other. Great inconvenience arose from the intricacy of making payments. But the sth clause simplifies the form of payment. It provides that the sign manual and Royal oilier should precede the draft for payment, arid no pa3ment should in future be made to the Exchequer pre vious to its lodgment in the Bank. The letter of the comptroller was necessary before a check could be issued. B -fore the cos ptroller issued the draft, he would have the opportunity of examining the Royal order and Treasury warrant, by which he would be ale to see whether the sum expended was within the limits of the Appropriation Act, or the authority granted by Parliament. He was aware of the difficulty in expelling machinery that appeared somewhat count) ic.ted; but he had no hesitation in say. inn, that if the details were followed, that the working of the bill was certain to he good, and to answer all the ex pectations he had formed of it, it would give a control over the executive, and would be the means of rendering srtisfactory accounts certain. The treasury, and r the bill, would know, day by aay, the amount of all m lieye paid into the Bank of England, and week by week the money paid out of the general account. The Exchequer would also know day by day the money paid out and into the Bank, and Parliament would annually have an account of the payments made on the general account pur suant to r lie vat nous statutes, ana would know the cash b '- lances ie the bands of the Bank at the end of every year. He should stye to the house that the letter issued train the Treasury would specify the head under which the payment was made, to whatever branch of the r- venue the payment belonged it would most assuredly be put, and, a• a matter of course the net state of the full debtor and creditor ac ousts would be known every day to the Com p troler of the Exchequer as we I a- to the Treasury, who would in such a case act as a check upon each other. He was not aware that there was any important provision in the bill is hich he had omitted, but as the house had been so kind as to allow the discussion upon it to take place in committee, he, ii he had omitted anything, would give any farther explanation that was in his power. On the part of the government, he might state that they were not bound to the bill, as it at present stood, and if any suggestion was made from an hon. member in a spirit of frientiline-s, it would meet with consideration, and if it was thought an improvement it would be adopted. He would then state to tie house what the saving would be by the pro. posed bill. In the office et present there were 69 clerks em - ployed, the cost of which was 41,9001. ; the effect of the proposed arrangement would be to reduce the num ber of clerks to 29, the cost of the eifice, at the same time, being reduced to 11.0001 , making a saving upon the whole of 30,0001.--(Hear.) The sum of 11,0001. would, be believed, ae suflicnnt to defray the charges of the new offices, namely, the Comptroller 01 the Exchequer and the Paymaster's office. The whole of the clerks for the new department would be selected from the clerks now employed in the Exchequer. It only remained for him to touch on another point, namely, compensation. 00 that subject he could not do better than refer to what had been recommended by the commissioners. They laid it down as a principle, and it had been adopted by his Ma jesty's Governmetst, that in the reduction of public offices as much regard as possible should be paid to the claims of individuals for compensation. That principle had been acted on in the bill before the committee. The recent death of the Auditor of the Exchequer would make the amount for compensation less than was generally supposed. The noble lord the present holder of the office, as was stated by his noble friend (Lord Althorp), held it subject to any arrangement that might be made with respect to it by Parliament. The differ- nt offices of the Exchequer were regulated by the act of 1817, in which it was deeared that the offices of Auditor and Tellers of his Majesty's Exchequer in England and Ireland respectively, and of Clerks of tire Pelts in England and Ireland respectively, were offices with respect to which there should be a more economical 1 1 arrangement ; and that all the offices were to be held during good behaviour. Now it appeared clear that under such an irrrangement they ought to be considered as per manent offices, and entitled to full retiriog allowances. There was a distitiction, however, between the Clerks of the Pills and the Tellers of the Exchequer; namely, that the duties of the former office were pen-termed by deputy, and by the act of 1817 the Tellers of the Exchequer were compelled to execute their duties personally. Linder all circumstances it was thought right to propose that an in come should be given to the present Clerk of the Pelts to the full amount of the salary now received for his sinecure office. He (sir J. Graham) would then refer to the Tellers of the Exch. quer One of these offices was held by Alr. Percevel, and was conferred upon him in conse quence of the public services of hi- father. Another of the Tellers of the Exchequer was the Marquis of Camden, to whose public-spirited conduct and libeia ity the country stood SO touch indebted. His Majesty's government, to mark the sense they entertained of the conduct of that nobleman, had thought it right to introduce a clause jut° the bill to which he wuu d heteaf er advert. Since that bill had been introduced, indeed a very short time sitter, a vacancy bad occurred in one of the Tellerships of the Exchequer. He (Sir James Graham) alluded to the di ath of Mr. Yorke. In cone quence of that (and indeed he felt very great pain in doing so), it would be his duty to leave that gentleman's name out ef the trill. Mr. Yorke had been one of iris (Sir James Giatram's) predecessors in the office he then aeid, and he had the happiness of enjoying the friendship or that gentle man, and had derived the greatest benefit from the ad vice of Mr. Yorke ; and at the same time he (Sir J. Graham) was happy in being able to state that his lamented hi nti had expressed his approbation of some of the altera inns that be (Sir J. Gratis ) had succeeded in carrying intoaffect.—(Hear, hear-) He would only add, that he was sure that no man ever lived ri ho was more anxious to perform his miry to the public, who was more anxious for the public welfare, or who had inure effectu ally served the public than Mr. Yorke --(Hear, hear.) He need only say that with respect to Mr. Perceval and Earl Bathurst, the other Tellers. their respective salaries should be continued to them for life. The compensation to these officers would be the amount of their salaii-s. Being vested interests it was but lair that they should re tain he einoiuments for the rest of their lives. The case of Land Camden was a very peculiar one.—(Cheers ) It was right and just that it should ever be known to his countrymen that from the purest motives of patriotism and generosity, though iu possessions of an office to the emmuments of which lie had as good a right as any gen tleman in that house had to his estate, he contributed to the public exi g encies no less a sum than 245,000/. — (Chem 8.) No act could be more unge.cious, none more tin g iatetul, than an attempt to fetter in any way t he f ee agency of a spirit ao generous, so mun ifi cen tly terested.—(Cheers.) For this r, aeon it wits deemed ex pedient, nothing less than an act o f j ust i ce an d g reiriud • n the part of the government, to a ll , w the no b!, mai qms sell to retain full power over the di sposa l o f t h e proceeds of his office—(Cheers)—to leave it to his own generosi y to deal with them as lie might think props, and in n o manner to fetter- Iris discretion.—(Cheers.) In this man lier they thought it right to mark their sense of his gene rous conduct. More than this the house could nut des and less would not become them. He believed he ban now gone through all the material parts of the bill, with out omitting any important point. He regretted having been obliged to detain the house so long upon a bill of this nature. It was one of uninteresting aspect, taken as a whole, but yet the details were important. The c hange proposed was as extensive as the government thought 11 1 0 could propose at present consistently with the exigencies el the public service. He would not detain the house longer, but propose the first clause, namely, that the salary of the Comptroller-General be 2,0001. a year; that of the De puty-Comptroller 1,000/. ; and that the salary of the chief and of the other clerks should be such as the Com missioners of the Tre entry should determine. The question being put from the chair, Lord G. SOAIERSET Was glad government had at length determined to bring this most useful reform under the consideration of the house. He did nut think his right hon. friend (SirJ. Graham) did Lord Grenville justice in supposing, as he seemed to da, that he wished to throw any obstacles in the way of these improvements. In all the communications of the commissioners with that noble lord, he showed himself ready to give all the information in his power, and to communicate freely with them. N" - thing could have been effectual but a sweeping a bolition , such as this bill contemplated; and he was himself, and those with whom he acted, prepared for an ab lition of offices equally extensive as that now proposed. An effi crent circa, however, must still be retained, and it ap peared to him that his right hen, friend did not dwell sufficiently upon this important point. The sort of check proposed in this bill was not, in his view of it, at all so valuable as that for which it was proposed to substitute it. The check of the Comptroller and of the Clerk of the Pell, was most useful, and, as now exercised, consti tuted a very important safeguard. They were told that the Comptroller -General would by this means be completely freed from all bias. However honourable and however independent of influence be might be, be could nut help thinking that the existence of some secondary check over him would be extremely desirable. It would not otherwise be a very easy matter to control him if, upon any occasion and under any peculiar circumstances, his feelings and convictions happened to he at variance with those of the executive government. This was not an imaginary case. Such a one had occurred, one in which the Clerk of the Pella did exercise a control over the executive. The case was mentioned by Mr. Robert in his evidence before the commissioners in 1830. Mr. Robert then stated that when his father, being deputy, was upon one occa sion directed to issue a sum of money from the Exchequer, considering the order to be illegal, be laid down his key upon the desk and refused to comply, saying he would sooner resign than do what he thought illegal. Lord Gren ville upon more than one occasion was at variance with the executive. The last occasion on which this occurred was in the matter of the Russian loan. Lord Grenville at the same time communicated to the government most us ful information, and it was satisfactory to find a public officer in his situation so independent and honourable in the discharge of an important duty as to tell the executive that such an appropriation of the public money could not be justified. The comptroller to be appointed under this bill could not be supposed to have all that weight and im portance which was attached to the officers who performed the duties of the place hitherto, surrounded as they were with a large e stablishment of subordinate officers and clerks, and with all the imposing paraphernalia of office. When the situation was to be ci. prived of all that authority and respect which it derived from its antiquity, from th e rank and station of those who fi'led it, he could not help thinking that it would be desirable to have a second officer, with a controlling authority. He was, however, glad to hear from his right hon. friend that the p e r. son to he pl iced at the head of the office was to be in reality an efficient one, and that the office was, not at all to partake of the natu-e of a sinecure Of this deter mination he highly approved, hut di.l not at all approve of the sort of power with which it was proposed to vest the .leptuy-comptroller in certain cues. If there was a comp troller, a deputy-comptroller, and a chief clerk, the great probability was that this chief clerk would do all the busi ness. This was no theory of his own. The provisions of the bill itself naturally led to such a result. The hill provided that the comptroller was to exercise a general superintendence and check over the business of the office ; hut, in the event of his absence from illness, or any other cause, the deputy-comptroller was authorised to exercise the check, and to discharge those duties which belonged to the comptroller-general. His object in these observa tions was to show that there was no occasion at all for a deputy-comptroller. It would, in his opinion, be much • betterp endentot h t o ecoffie a ffix t , ) ,: p ecer o u: i t with n ap salaryac e o f t f. he l deputy o o . a anoth er year. The e comptroller-general solely would not be a sufficient check e :iv i e n . dep H en e d w en i t sh o e ffi d, ce t r h s e , re f f o or r e, th th e er p e u s t h p o o uld , thereby of giving gretter efficiency to the check. This opinion he and his friends who sat round him formed some years back, and, as it appeared to him a pre ferable one to that now proposed, he considered it his duty upon such occasions as this to throw out the suggestion to his right honourable friend. The Gerk of the Pell., if the office should be still re tained as an efficient check, might perform the same duties that hitherto belonged to it, with the same salary, 1,0001.. as that proposed for the deputy-comptroller. The salary at present was too large, and a continuance of it could not be ex,iected under any new modification of the office. Anoth r point not sufficiently provided for in the bill wits the ex clusqm of the comptroller from a seat in that house.-- (Sir J. Graham sahi there was a provision to that effect.) Another point, perhaps more important still, was not provided for, so far as he could see : he meant a clause to prevent this officer from holding any other place under the Crown. He was glad to see that the old form of Exzhequer tickets (as we understood) was to be abo lished, but it might be important to preserve some ac quain lance with these curious numerals. He approved of committing the bill merely pro forma, for that would afford an opportunity of introducing any alterations that might be deemed advisable. The payments to be made, he did not think, required a separate paymaster. He understood this office was to be accompanied with a large e•tablishment of clef ks ; but perhaps he was mistaken. The proposed change in this respect was a matter of some importance. The present mode of pa3ment had worked well for many years, and there was no instance of de falcatmn. He did not intend to offer any motion on the subject. Sir J. GRAHAM thanked his noble friend for the candour of his observations on the bill. He should cer tainly attend to his suggestions in the progress of it. Care would be taken to introduce a provision to prevent the Comptroller from holding any other place under the crown. It was already provided that he should have no seat in that house. As to the Paymaster's office, it was proposed that it should form a branch of the Treasury. When it was considered that the va rious payments to be made amounted to between three and four millions a year, the house must see the n cessity of some establishment. When it was com plete the matter would be submitted to the house. The whole charges under the plan proposed Joy the bill, in plire of 41,0001., would be only 11,0001., and the half of this sum would be the charge of the paymaster's office. The house would have an opportunity of knowing every thing relating to this establishment, for the details would be brought before them every year. The next point to which his noble friend alluded to, was the double check. The question here was, whether a single check was not more efficient than a double one. The clerk of the pells had stated his opinion to be adverse to the system of double clock, and in this he concurred with him, inasmuch as it divided respinsibility. After a few words from Mr. HEaarEs and Lord ALTHORP, S r H. PARNELL thought that the house and the public ought to he very much obliged to Ministers for bringing forward this measure, for he held that would effect he most important telorms, not only in the Exche quer, but in all the other departments. He for one dis approved of the double checks, the origin of which bad liven in t , h en e tc a,ts extremely .,un defective manner of keeping the Gi,ve Mr. HUME highly approved of the bill. He was glad to h ar that the offices eatahlished by the Act of Queen Anne were to be abolished. lie wished to know wh,ther the Clerks of the Pelts %sere to receive the 2,7001., or whe ther this sum w.re to include the payments to their depu ties. He wished, likewise, to know if the auditor was to beallciworen the puhlit.. allowed holliany other places, or to r e ceive any other sum i Sir J. GRAHAM said that the act empowered the Treasury Board to make separate compensation to the officers under the Tellers, and that the Tellers themselves were to receive 2,7001. a year. He was able to state that Lord Auckland did not intend to receive any pensions or ally emolument whatever for any pl ices held by him durmg pleasure ; but with respect to tha appointinet!tto Giee..wich Hospit .1 lie was not able to give a positive answer, and be c..uld only say that he should regret if that es.ablislinient were to be deprived of his lordship's valuable services. Mr. HUME strongly objected to pluralities of all sorts. Mr. 111. AfTWOOD, as a measure of economy, ap proved of the present bill, but he hoped that some altera tion would be made in tie clause which related to the a(a pp t ti h i e nttn E e x n ., t h ei: g if u t e h r e .il edi Comptroller and pprov e Assistant do fpuc Comptroller office r being appointed to their situations for life, and thought that no one should hold a public situation except (luring I ,l e asure. a c i h o e n. sa b la a r r i o e r s ,e a t t b p a r , e i se j u o t rg p o a t i t d en svas ti 4 e to th ; em whatm the rightamount o : i aving was which the proposed a bolition of offices would effect in this branch of the public expenditure. The hon. gentleman alluded to the office of st o, t 9eo bT:te Cleik of the Pelts, which the measure proposed to abolish, and said that he saw no reason why the principle to which he had adverted should not be applied to the salary of the right hon. gentleman who hell that office as well as to the salaries of other persons. Indeed he thought that, in stead of allowing the right hon. gentleman a retiring being e a ih rb : d 1, 400 1., of stao t v h fieAssistantt thathe and that nouiffitbe C htec F ,hv piros would ohpd right hrs have vnme. of pension of 1,4001. a year, it would be much better to retain ll his services by making him Assistant Comptroler of the ag t nct e, xc ka l Exchequer. i n e o q fw n : eh eewhpeaaespl appointed 0 0 l s the benefit of a reduction to that extent. Sir J. GRAHAM begged to inform the hon. gentle man that this was not so much a measure of economy as it was a measure for the better regulation of the public accounts, and to insure a greater degree of punctuality on the part of those through whose hands the public money necessarily passed, by affording free access to the public accounts, and showing examy how the public balance stood. 130, above all, it was a (ilea. sure that would enable the government to exercise a more *table control over the public expenditure than s a t m makingp to 1 I l‘ r i ofthe Exchequer , could :do un d er t h e ex i st i ng system.--( Hear, hear.) Now, n Ellisa fort a -C s () a person t ew with respect t o th e propos i t i on o f t h e h on. gentle man Ellis,tn the e e C u l l b er i ck service ofhe the P shoulda very few w or d s . The hon. gentleman represented Mr. ;b e u ii :' sayhA. how n stood the fact ? Why, t h at, so far from being new to public service, the right h on . gent l eman b ad served the . public, he might say all parts of the world, with zeal and efficiency for upwards of twenty-two years.—(Hear.) But be would enumerate some of the right hon. gentle man's services, and then leave it to the house to determine whether the statement of the hon. gentleman the member for Whitehaven was correct or not. In 1812 Mr. Ellis entered the public service as Secretary to Lord Bucking. ham. He was afterwards sent to Persia, and there in 1814 signed a treaty of great importance to the country to the entire satisfaction of the then government. In 1815 be was appointed secretary to a commission for ar ranging a commercial treaty between this country and the United States of America. His services on this occasion were admitted on all hands to have been most efficient. Subsequently he acted as secretary to Lord Amherst, and in 1815 he was again sent to the United States of Ame rica in an official capacity. In 1819 he went out as secretary to the Governor of the Cape of Good Hope, and on his return in 1822 be was ap pointed Secretary to the Commissioners of Re venue Inquiry. He was afterwards made a Com missioner of Customs, and in 1825 Lord Liver p )01 voluntarily, and without solicitation, conferred upon him the situation of Clerk of the Pells, which was then' vacant. He (Sit J. Graham) submitted that he had now furnished sufficient proof to show that the right hon. gen tleman was not new to the public service. --(Hear.) The committee must know that the salary which be enjoyed as a commissioner of customs was equal in amount to the salary he received as clerk of the pells, and that the reason he exchanged the one situation for ihe other was that the latter was an independent office, and that he held the other during pleasure only. Now be would put it to the liberality and good f ee ling of the house whether it would be fair to call upon a ma.r who had served the public for 22 years, and filed an independent office, like that of clerk of the pells, to accept a sub irdinate office, such as the as si-tant-comptroller of the Exchequer undoubtedly was.— (Hear, hear.) He was willing to admit that where public economy was concerned private feeling should be laid aside; but, without calling on the right hon. gentleman to fill this office, the government had ample choice of ocher public servants who were Just as competent to per form the dudes as he was. The right hon. baronet said that the government had the choice or four persons, namely, the first clerk of the auditor, the first clerk of the pelts, and the twit tellers of the Exchequer, any one of whom could pet forin the duties of assistant-comptroller of the Exchequer effic ently. The office of teller of the Es c equer was a sinecure, as the duties could be performed by deputy ; but that was not the case with respect to the clerk of the pells, as the act of 1817 required that the duties attached to that office should be discharged in per son. He felt satisfied that the generous feeling and libe rality of hon. gentlemen would protect the government from all necessity of acting harshly towards an old public servant, or doing violence to the sensitive feelings of an upright and honourahle man.—(Hear.) Sir G. STAUNTON knew the right hon. gentleman (Mr. Ellis) to whom allusion bad been so often made inti mately. His services had been of the utmost value to the public, and it would be most unjust to deprive him of the reward which those services so well merited. Mr. M. ATTWOOD observed that if the right hon. gentleman's services requited so large a reward they ought surely to address his Majesty to place him on the pension list.—(Disvprobition.) Mr. H. L. BULWER would never consent that a gentleman who served the public faithfully should be de graded from his official rank, by being compelled to accept a subordinate situation, after having filled an independent onie.—(Hear.) Mr. C. GRANT was also personally acquainted with Mr. Ellis, and could bear the most ample testimony to the value of that right hon. gentleman's public services. His right hon. friend bad for the last three years acted as one of the unpaid commissioners of the Board of Control, and his knowledge of Indian affairs was of the utmost ad vantage to the government on the renewal of the East India Company's charter, in 1812 and 1813. Air. GOULBURN agreed that it would be most unfair to require a gentleman who had with such credit to him self filled a superior office to accept an inferior situation.— (Hear, hear.) Knowing, however, the great value of Mi. Ellis's public services, and how deserving he was of confidence, he (Mr. Goulburti) could not but regret that when such an appointment as that of Comptroller of the Exchequer was about to be made he had not been the individual selected to fill it.—(Hear.) By such a choice l eatisfaction would be given to all parties, and the public would be relieved to the amount of his retired allowance— that was, 1,400/. The right hon. gentleman said that he ould have proposed two checks rather than one, and be thought that appointing two respectake officers to perform that duty at a salary of 1,5004, aye .r each would be more advantageous to the public service than the arrangement proposed to be made. He had frequently complained of the great complexity of the machinery in this department, and should be glad to see it removed without running any risk of endangering the public security. Ile certainly did not approve of placing such a responsibility in the hands of any one clerk, but he would at the same time say that such a confi tepee could be reposed in no one with more safety than in his right hon. friend, Mr. Ellis.—(Hear.) Lord ALTHuRP, with respect to the question of double cheeks, entirely concurred in the view which his right hon. friend (Sir James Graham) had taken. He was satisfied that a single check would be quite sufficient; and if there was no other objection to a double check than that of being obliged to keep up two establishments, it would, he submitted, be conclusive against such a system. If he considered thet two were necessary he certainly should not propose only one ; but it was his opinion that the duty would be performed as securely and efficiently by one as by twit ; and therefore he concurred in the view which his right hon. friend had taken. With regard to the proposition for appointing Mr. Ellis to the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer he would say a vet y few words. That undoubtedly was an office of very great importance, and it was the duty of the government to take came that it Was properly and adequately filled. He must say he was exceedingly happy to hear that it was agreed on all hands that Mr. Ellis deserved the reward he re ceived ; but the question was, were the Government to appoint to this office, or was that appointment to be made by the House of Commons ? In his opinion the House of Common- bad nothing whatever to do with the appoint ment. The choice of the individual who was to fill it !whinged net to them, but to the Executive Government. Mr. GOULBURN admitted the fact to be so. Colonel EVANS could ❑ot see upon what grounds the right lion. baronet (Sir J. Graham) could appeal as he hid done to the generosity of that house in behalf of Mr. Ellis, rejecting as he did the proposition which had been made, and telling them that the s me compensation was to be given to the tellers of the Exchequer, who had per forme.. no public services, as to Mi. Ellis who had. Mr. ATTWOOD had no further intention to depreciate the claims of Mr. Ellis than to say he did not appear to h►m to stand in the light of one of those public servants who were e doled to such a reward. S , r R. DONKIN spoke highly from his own experience of Mr. Eilis's services at the Cape ; (hey bad been in. st valuable. With regard to the proposition for piecing Mr. Ellis upon the pension list, he thought it one which that gentlemen would spurn as it deserved. The clause was then put and agreed to. Upon the clause authorising the p 'ywent of 8,300/. as compensation to the clerk of the pels, Mr. HUME thought, before agreeing to the clause, the house ought to have an assurance from the Government dist these deck's would, at thi , very earliest opportunity, be appointed to other offices, and these allowances be stopped. Lord ALTHORP had no hesitation in assuring the house it was zhe wish of the Government to give to Mr. Ellis such employment as his eminent meths entitled him to at the earlie,t opportunity, as well as to all the other parties. Mr. TENNYSON said the Government might be ready to offer empliiyinent to Mr. Ellis, but it would be open to him to refuse it unless the house tonk some step to guard against that result. Undoubtedly the Crown had a right to choose its own servants, but it was incumbent on the house to consider whether it would vote this pension until it knew that it would oniy be paid as long as necessary, and no longer. _ _ Lord ALTHORP, from what he knew of Mr. Ellis, was pertec ly satisfied it would be his anxious wish to accept the first office in which his services would entitle him to the remuneration he was receiving. Mr. TENNYSON said it appeared to him that, instead of p Lying to Lord Auckland 2,5001. as Comptroller of the Exchequer, for which offic, Mr. Ellis was so fit, it would have heen much better to have appointed him to it. He should like to bear whether any or what part of Lord Auckland s income was g.ven up in consequence of holding this office. Sir J. GRAHAM had already stated as distinctly as he could, that Lord Auckland, while he 101 d the office of Comptroller of the Exchequer, woull receive no part of his pensiou. He must say, it appeared to him to be the o i de n a l t jpnasrialymobuyntmdru.tynolifs,thaendbotunsep,laacterdhiimts tiirnstanduityr t .ndepen c a o r o. situation. If it were held that he had no ri g ht to e' le pentration, then he could understand the right bond. „ f av our n man proposing to make it a matter of grace a" was that Mr. Ellis should have it until this or that officenlaini vacant for him. But be contended that Mr. dit S ur ir e, j w . upon the ground of his past services was clear ly ili : one. Id know Mr. HUME thought it necessary the house sboul for what services this large sum of 8,3001. was to be Pi' in compensation. house e r aEnd. thel(-N G AT w e er H n tU en L t L to ca a ll g e i a nd The clause was then agreed to, the house resutneur the report was ordered to he received on Monday. IMPRISONMENT OF SOLDIERS. hGn:RhAIiA wo u l d ill b h e a had laidp r prepared r t e l d i a tab l e. estimates o f the Open . which had arisen, the practice of using county gaols fo the imprisonment of soldiers. When be stated that in the gaol of the county with which he had the honour to be year, he thought it must be evident that great a s had been created. But beyond that it was scarcely con a n i e r c . t E ed L i c o E r 7soaidsotlhdeiersbadbeen confined withliteitinttcr. necessary for him to suggest the manifest impropriety of sending soldiers to mix with the tenants of the county rdeatthpeubal gaol who were afterwards to return to the ranks,—(Hears attention of ve o n f ie r a ti c e er hear.) He hoped the subject bad occupied the considera tion of Ministers. the importance of this subject, and it had been very la u h n id de i r their consideration. The number of courtsmartisl had be en very much increased, and in proportion th ere an increase in the number of soldiers committed to the ea __, Was county gaols and to the prisons of the metropolis' those H p laces entry to say, after undergoing their punishment In in they had many of them returned to the ar m y no very improved state. In these circumstances, be feared the Government had no choice left but to provide separate places of confinement for the soldiers, and tha t must be done. Govern ment were fully awarete ;If ____ MUTINY BILL.—MILITARY FLOGGING. Mr. BERNAL brought up the report of the MutinY Bill. Upon the clause giving the power of corporeal punishment, Major FANCOURT rose to move the abolition of the practice altogether. The gallant inemher then read the Horse Guards circular, dated August 14, 1833, an d CO' tended that it left the practice and the question much in the same state that it was in before. The terms " di''' graceful conduct" and "insubordination," for which the ' t p a u k n e is i im a e lm n , os w t as ev s e ti r l y l tooffbneui.n_flic(tTethl,ewgearellasntt, general.fficer a b s e.re t o r ~ n read from the regulations the list of offences placed und , e 4 these heads, which are very numerous.) He then called Some upon e the gentlemenh ous et o regardedexa inin e i twahsatthewoanslythme ewano.r.king and ' t ' what consisted the advantages of the present system, • f deterring •' soldiers from the commission of extreme offences. - 1 " t these were the very off ences t o w hi c h flogging was I" applied ; but, on the contrary, it was brought into opera!' tion precisely in those cases of less aggravated offen ce i ,: i f which it was least called for. He called the atten tion : - the house to the fact that in the Life Guards the r an i hardly ever existed, and the reason of this was , that once a man was flogged he was expelled from the refit went. This was a proof that where the practice fie held in just detestation, its use became unnecessary.. hat a knew he should be told that in this corps sve,ntabst superior class of men—(Hear, hear, hear)--nn a _, h , therefore they had no occasion to resort to the pr in " eo ment. But ne contended that the character n oh w fa a d s p ae improved diamb eeennt, d ebt therefor re ar t de h fe e . odr feeling eb,y t o. a b that o iits iwi n iat o s n e :l3t o oe f g es t to b o bi e e f e l m . r. : : : a e a : id i o . o da :_ tty ; find some efficient substitute as a means of mantel:col; discipline.—(Hear, hear.) For his own part b% eme nt, vinced that this might be found in solitary c nu manadtitehnatthpaunnitshhem,:tnowwouilnd uhsee.moTrehiesitasientthefolesriictiano:f cOhnnetne his own experience. He knew that solitary ad ben re , was held in the greatest dread by men Alin b. a i m 0)0 peatedly flogged, e ids no other effect than to m . tice bad more hardened. But it was said that the pr ac tice 00 already been much decreased. This, hi his an additional proof that it might safely be abolisnoseed 10 so 0p i ti 0 ..... 0, sad . ra if so, why should the soldier continue to be "P ble t° i" hT deba sing thate,wi. ea ,w sa tisfied a a ns soldiers o a r w d l ro e e t ua ' I, wouldadi in that hi commit t e t ehffie w hich acrimesiremn r endered fuar thclass e la i m 0 c... oe av ad ea p s y r , ..: authorise punishments e withholdingwh i ch, the i ti soldiers'o n a c yj o n n ltie fi ta, “ :sva :oveui it o dli f ‘: its discipline. In additi,n to these, however , b e art airs cases, and, where found incorrigible, the ir "' belieVed ignominy. Some objected to tbis because they 0 _bah; L 0 also also . their discharge —(Hear, heir-) thought it necessary on active service, but h'" d ear and the French practice of marching men t o the before! tt confining them ' until re brought , lees at night they were iit a nd caurtmartial much more efficient as a punishoont on injuriuus to the force oh the army--(T he g alle on s he then quoted the opinions of Lieutenant SpiPP .F . , b o ok question, and read some long extracts fronl it ."; tat 0 0t strongly condemning the practice of flogglng• ) cerned---tbe, merely the interests of the army that were eon • endence ot character, the honour, and perhaps the ind e r P ot to the Great Britain, which bad sometimes to I s _,, e. Th bravery of her voluntary defenders, were ut m a ; fog ging lion member then moved, as an amendment, t° sinomoerderoffi. cee_:ought , be t c h o e lle w ag h tie l . e th F in lo g g s g t be henceforth abolished in the British army._ „ ans o f t Flogging g ld wa be Mr. CHICHESTER was sure that the 7'4 pa ilant country, would respond to the sentitneatsolitsbue'd,* gras, not the partial abolition, then, and what was therefore the necessity for en n try' practice ?—(Hear, hear.) Living i n the coffer be (Mc' being familiar with the sentiments of the Pel ee daeat i . °P Chichester) would say, that from the s pread set ; to t he 1 ; 3 ; y o ut:bo 1 ifsohr e s d h : o i r ot uo i n gi pe g gth t l e i t rii among the people, they were strongly oPP° All knew diction of corporeal punishment on eoldiers. ; Jr. Gb i e beo f vices of the system, and deprecated it. Ild (, ‘ „ seq uence,_ . , s , ter) would fairly state to the house that, in c . o . ' more ntie the diffusion of education among the Pe°P i c ei - ost iee W er ,i manised feelings and more correct notions 0 , 1 00 e and a e l y r e e n a t d au y agiri party propagated among them, and that theynweinreenta 00 osn' s opposed to the infliction of barbarous pu " an n aorallY a ns ° .,' ' tary men—punishtnents that 500 k the tire harm.—(Hear, hear.) if h"' rsue, doubt about the course they sb"id pugeneral feelings .41 physically, and did the service not only innmoong:::.l. but 'e 10 suit the debates of that house a nd the E . ,of e mr..er , , o wl the county. Toe opinions 01 ued in ente Or' should be e f ollowed in any plan to b e purs . s „,.... L . , a system of punishment for delinquell s°ldier i 01d 1 1 : 01 , 1 r t Colchester) had a respect fur the jtrlgnie nt n t hat 'n. 4 l; in point of military tactics ; but be would Yidsa 00 , thlo, as punishment for offences was concerned, be ni . o phoe 2 : : their opinions should be judged absolutes ""', pe ... ,, - tem of picketting, where the man was obliged the loony might be upheld notwithstanding a n i ke ° oo ,ll ' opinion old military officers might have held O t t ", t he of: What justitica , ion could there be, for instance, is- stand Da What 0 t the point of a sharp instrument struck in ' be gone il l of suspending the whole weight of the hum° col" " c i the arms tied by a rope fastened in a pullY ?: st i fi ed by as barbarities lie upheld? Could they be l n 9 ) one. It notoriously g rew ou t d t ( c he er . . arguments advanced within that house he c hair , 0 On the previous question being put from t_ not fair/Y.4i Mr. R. GRANT lose . Th e question vvr tio " n a gett et i sletitthivemits c;o'i t be considered an open one, or the the e l utiny 8ii1.._ 30 motion was made by the hon. (Mr. Hume), that the punishment of n ' do"tn". plant the Lb. altogether abolished in the United King doctrines of members who profes•ed to accede to the es. ...d die p 0 hon, member would net go BO far as to '!". or a n hot sions of the proposition to the departments ofn an i tt ion c ai l, our colonies, while others might have been co r ded ° there the same license of exemption should be :,. ie that_ the Many said that it was h ghly objection. a u gia a t er furi rre j should be one system for the colonies ann_ aot her ° on to( parent kingdom.—(Here the right hon. h i : boo. i n a 0 1 ,, eircum-tannally to a former motion of i ri oritY n .ato io% for Westminster on the subject, to the r e elit in Guamc occasion, and to the conduct of the gove7oo,se so an official circular to be issued from he o f th a e 00 01 4 respecting mile:ary floggine, in conseq u . - o cda w tv t ioo ill of the house on that occasion. The ease: jote rrtil ) oo , ,) not catch, in consequence of a coati:0;00 o e . cts n : f tt at our part of the gallery, an event of cornreatiseatio. 8,914 0 0 inern„,boer :foogr libi(c)lido.labe 000 e. A plan was then proposed for tberaot) s oul ° w fore abuse com;.lained of, and he (Mr. G s h ou ld nan' e ( fle," his own responsibility, that the hoto e friem ber.'w V . 71 it rushed into the proposition of the bon' „ us e eh° o'l ( ne t r.) The great the nquestin was, and tl ec"cr.otensingwai o it in mind, whether experiment of ,; co , by j w elt . the infliction of flogging for onty three oi r t , was vie", t sid: eventually abolishing flagging altegethe ere f air 1 p W l° and sufficiently ; and if the experiment w ooed, the ~ „e o r and it was likely to answer the end Pr°P f' the b°°;0;013I would the house think of the proposition ° I at osg o der, tier ?—(Cheers.) He (Mr. Grant ha` _ 0 ibe.. e giq tor objecting to the motion. Fast, `b r ae7 _ o f 01 0 • bohtion so standing come to last )ear, that the A tou t an I ; l og , should not be precipitately adopted, w' a es ilerl allt merit of a remedial substitute, or at 'easy; . lo on introduce the thing by cautious gradat''''' ~•, y " , :~