The Sun. — London, England, 1825-03-08 00:00:00

if conee.sion and persuasion, he wished the Catholic Associa tion to be put down, and he only regretted that its name and its recollection could not easily be forgotten. He should wish to see the Catholics in Parliament—in the Government, but he could not consent to their setting up a Parliament and a Govern ineinfor themselves. The Catholics laboured under grievances —and they always had his voice uplifted calling for their redress; but still, he said, they were la ot to be the sole "judges ; and re -dress they were to have not 6y any means incompatible with the Constitution and the Government, arid those who represented -The people of this empire in both Houses of Parliament. Earl RODNEY said, he merely rose to say a few words in exnlanation of the motives which induced him to vote for this MIL' The Association he believed to be highly dangerous— antipathies and animosities wereawakened by the speeches dez :livered there—an intperim imperio was openly exercised-_ a fearful influence ,prevailed —taxes were levied--and to pre vent the ^ spreading of such evils, he thought some measure better than the present a bsolutely necessary. The Rent was said to be a spontaneous offering— but he knew it to be taken from persons not at all approving the proceedings of the Ca..' tholic man)'Assiation. Perhaps there was no force used to obtain it, but an persons from fear of certain influence were obliged to c ontribute to it. In short, if the Association were allowed to go on, he anticipated the most fearful consequences from it. Manifestoes were issued and pasted on the chapel doors—apparently • they conjured the people to peace and tranquillity, but still they conjured them by the hatred they bore a portion of their countrymen, to remain in peace Tl:ey called upon the people to avoid Whiteboys and Ribbon men, but they continually told them they were slaves and ex isted only under a tyranny. For himself he could say, that there .was not a peasantry in the world who enjoyed more real frr. dom than the peasantry of Ireland. There never was a people undcr the sun who were more ready to acknowledge the boons of the last two or three years, if they were only left to themselves, and delivered from the influence of agitators. He stated that as a fact, sad he challenged contradiction if it were not so. He would not now enquire into the objects of the Ca t,ailic Association ; he did not desire to judge them by their language, but whatever were their objects, their effects were equally injurious, their evils were the same. The Catholic As sociation was left alone—that he charged as a fault upon the Government—they were left alone, a nd they increased in power avid in mischief. He hoped this Bill would prove useful in preventing all such associations, whether they were orange or green. He was unwilling to couple the Catholic Association with the Orange Association, and he was glad that the time for their existence had gone by. He wished all annual pro cessions wereabolished, and whether this Bill would effect that_ object or not he could not undertake to say. He hoped the Catholics would take the advice of his Noble Friends, Lords Fingal and Killeen, and he was sure the Association would be put down. As to the agitators in Ireland, he hoped they would obey the law. " Hicmotus aninsorum, atque fun certamina tanta, IPulveris eitiguce jactu compressa quiescent." Ile gave his hearty concurrence to the Bill. F.arl DARNLEY opposed the Bill. He did not think the Irish peasantry so happy or so free as they were represented to be ; and he was quite sure that Ireland would never be per manently. happy until the question of Catholic Emancipation was carried. Their Lordships had hithert6 prevented that ipieful, just, and necessary measure; but he now hoped, with out any allusion to the quarter whence that opposition came, that a different feeling would prevail. The Government might be divided on this subject, but whether they were or not that great question must sooner or later be decided. The-Earl of RODEN said a few words in explanation. Earl GROSVENOR opposed the bill. They were now about to frame a law which would be fatal to the peace of this country and of Ireland, if it were not accompanied by the measure to which his Noble Friend had alluded. They were going to adopt this bill without hearing one word in defence of this much maligned institution—without being in possession of tlie sentiments of the Noble Lord who was at the head of the Government of Ireland, which was a matter of very great importance; and without accompanying the enactment of this penal law with any conciliating or healing proposition. They were proceeding to legislate in this manner when the power of the Pone was no more. They were proceeding to legislate in this manner when the Roman Catholic population had increased in knowledge, and . in riches—when the numbers of that body were not only relatively but actually enormous ; and they pro ceeded to legislate,.wlthout stating in any part of the Bill the nature of the danger that,v,tas apprehended. He was very glad to hear that some approxinaationnf feeling between the two con flicting parties inlreland had been manifested ; but he trusted that the Roman Catholics would never be satisfied with any trifling concession—that they never would .he content with any thing Mess than a full participation in the rights and privileges of the constitution. The Bill was then read a third time, and messengers were de. spatched to the House of Commons to announce the decision of , ti.,:ir Lordships.—Adjoured at lIALF-PAST 8 o'CLoca. Scotland.—Read a first tithe, and ordered to be read a second time on Friday next. A ' , SISSED TAXES. Mr. LINDSAY presented a petition from the Burghers - of Perth, praying fur a repeal of the Assesied Taxes and Insu rance Duties. Sir G. CLERK moved the Order of the.. Day for the third reading of the Weights and Measures Bill—The Bill was read a third time and passed. GAME LAWS BILL. Mr. STUART WORTLEY rose to move the second read- ing of this bill. In legislating upon this subject, it was proper to consider whether Parliament could not give protection to the amusements of country gentlemen without doing injustice to the country at large. The evils which resulted from the_pre sent system were many; but the most important was the great increase of pbaching, which, such was the effect of existing laws, was not looked upon as a moral offence by almost any portion of the community. How was that evil to be diminish ed ? Severe laws, he was convinced, would be of no avail ; it was necessary to generate a different feeling amongst the body of the people. That, then, should be his first object; and the next the opening of the market for the sale of game, and there by destroying the menopoly which the poachers at present en joyed. The existing system of qualification to kill game was most absurd. To be qualified to kill game, a man must have an estate of inheritance in his own or his wife's right of the yearly value of one hundred pounds, or an estate for the term of ninety years, of the annual value of 15 0 1 . Those were the two principal qualifications; but there was another curious mode of qualification, derived, not from any thing belonging to the person himself, but from the accident of birth. The eldest sons only of esquires and persons of higher rack were allowed the privilege of shooting. He proposed to remove all qua lifications, the only effect of which was to engender ill blood, and to give to every person who held land a property in the game which was on it, and a power to prevent any per son from destroying it. lie apprehended that there would be no more difficulty in making game property than fish in a river which ran through several estates. Ile certainly did not propose to make the taking of game a felony ; but there were many articles well protected by the laws which it was not a fe lony to steal. Ile did not believe that the change in the law which he projected would increase the number of shooters. If the bill should pass, it would be necessary for an individual, after taking out a licence—he must go to the ex pence of that—to have the means of shooting. Under the existing system many; persons went out to kill game who had no right to do so, and took the chance of being found out. When it was considered, that according to the provisions of his bill, a person who went out to shoot must first purchase a certificate, and would in the next place be liable, if he were found shooting on another per son's land without his consent, to be taken before a magistrate, he thought there was ground for presuming that the number of shooters would be much diminished. The great objection which was urged against the Bill last year was, that it would have the effect of destroying fox-hunting—that was to say, that farmers and other small land-holders, having property in the game on their land, would gncl it to their interest to kill the foxes. But when it was recollected, that foxes were generally to be found only in great woods and preserves, where they might be protected by those who thought it worth their while to preserve them, lie did not think that that objection was en titled to much weight. He should, indeed, be sorry to do any thing to the prejudice of fox-hunting, which he considered a most manly and truly English sport. Another objection to the Bill was, that it would render game so common in the market, that country gentlemen would soon give up all idea of sporting. He did not believe that : for his own part, he could say, that he did not feel less pleasure in shooting woodcock or wild fowl, or catching a fish, because he could buy such animals in the next town. After declaring that all the objections made to the Bill, were quite threadbare, lie concluded by moving the second, reading of it.—( H ear !) Sir J. BRYDGES said that the present Bill, as it seemed to him, instead of checking poaching would go to encourage it. All that the poacher wanted was a free vent for his plunder, which this measure of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire went precisely to afford him. He was decidedly:opposed to the Bill, as regarded its effect upon the preservation of game ; and not the less so because it added a new felony to.the statute-book, in making night poaching (the third time r ) A transportable offence. Tinder these circumstances, he should move 4 that the Bill be read a second time this day six months." Mr. LOCKHART .supported the amendment of the Hon. Baronet opposite, and was surprised how any one could think that the measure before the House wes calculated for the pre servation of game. The effect of the Bill would be, by making every land-owner a legal dealer in game, to render the small farmer's house a constant resort for poachers, and the man him self an agent for the sale of their commodity.. He should have no objection to.support a proposition for extending the existing scheMe of qualification ; but, for the Bill of the Hon. Member for Yorkshire, he thouht it would create more crime than it would prevent. With respect to the right of preserving game, he thought it quite unreasonable that Gentlemen should be asked to resign any right or property, purely because there existed on the part of some persons a disposition to violate or destroy it. He should, certainly sit. down by supporting the amendment. illn PEEL had come down with a determination Is vote for the Bill before the House. When he looked to the day in which the Game Laws had been framed, he thought it more than likely that their spirit should not suit the present time ; and when he saw them in their ordinary operation and practice, lie confessed he was less satisfied with them still.—(Hear, hear !)—The whole system of game, and of the sports connected with it, had changed, it should be recollected, within theslast 30 or 40 years. Gentlemen were not cootented to follow their birds now, as their fathers had done before them ; ; every little cover almost throughout the country was a nursery sfor pheasants, and took 1 rank as a preserve. The list of the killed and wounded after a week's sport became perfectly extraortgnary • he hod himself seen in one larder no fewer than a thousand pheasants, the 1 product of three days' shooting ; andeyet, for all this immense mass of commodity there was no legal sale.--(Hear, hear!) — Now the increase in the quantity of ,game found in the country had produced a change and A ne w feature in the public taste. Game was a fashionable dish ; society would have it; they did have it ; and there was no preventing them from having it.—(Hear, hear, hear s)—lt had been humorously said, but very justly, " You cannot hinder the three per cent. Consols from eating pheasants"--( Hear ! and i laughter) —oven if it were desirable to hinder them front doing so, which did not distinctly appear. Without going at all, there fore, into the question of detail, he thought there was enough in the Bill of his ,Hon. Friend (the Member for Yprkshire) to warrant its being read a second time ; because it :was perfectly possible for the present, without making game a property, to give every proprietor of land the power of killing, and selling it on ,his own, estate ; and was it reasonable that a man who chose to preserve game should send it to feed on the crops of the neighbouring farmer, who had no right to kill it ?—( Hear, hear!)—He was far from thinking that the effect of •the Bill would be to foment squabbles between the rich and the poor ; a fair compromise was what would suit all parties best; and that was the end to which it would quickly come. The small pro prietor would not find it worth his while to preserve game, and he would sell his right to his richer neighbour for a reasonable con sideration—(H ear !)—Theremightbe some little difficulty,as there was in all alterations, at-first ; but after people had found out their rights, they would find out their convenience, and then all would go well. And let the,Houselook at the way in which game was preserved under the existing system : it must be pre served either by spring-guns or by an armed force.—(Hear, hear !)—lt was an armed force certainly up to this point—there were five or six keepers on an estate, with thirty assistants at their call, who went out, in case of any attack, to repel, force by force. These did not use arms, unless they found arms used by their opponents ; but the struggle frequently came to that re- sort in the end.—( Hear !)—Thenfor the spring-guns,besides the constant liability to accident from the use of such engines,their ef fect was to take away life,whicloovertly,the owner of the property, under the same circumstances, would-not be justified in taking away.—(Hear, hear !)—Then it was said that, under the pend ing measure, there would not be a satisfactory possession of game as a property. What kind of possession was there under the existing system? Surely that was bad enough !—(Much cheering.)—With respect to the ,Hon. Member's (Mr. Lock hart's) suggestion of altering the scheme of qualification, he thought that would be a plan attained with great difficulty and inconvenience ; and to let the matter rest where it stood, was really, in times like the present, quite impossible. According younger song— ' to the present law, a gentleman might have an estate of several thousands a year, and yet not be able to qualify his second son to shoot whln The very, part of his family—his • trate; they might breal would be anxious to give that diversion to, he could not i might be called upon to might actually be a magis t of the question allow_ q u alify gh . 3ellu e pthuetliatiivh;fearnzed 17a,iinnsthaisleoifIni.ciizrlocapawchayo, g a e n st ir d p b o y rta th n e t ingthis state otthings already established, and the between the working of a system h re to remain*.-i-t( Hear! )--H e felt the difference establishing:the same system elsewhere fact, nevertheless, that a system very andsideraby increased. In many years past, the game had very con present Bill was pursued in Scotland t i that in Scotland, for e Like elThtaitt wassug 1- 'that up property. A t qoalify whoever he pleased 'to kill game . Scotland, every man who posaessed a plough rate of land, could id not think the Bill the same time lie was free to admit, lie I had been • Those who were afraid of it would find that t tey ha d b en . is taken before the House would fulfil the expectations of either party. ofgame in this ed : for the truth was, looking at the quantity . taken ; and those who supported it would perhaps be disappoint acted upon two motives couritry, he did not think that any measure would entirely put down poaching.—( II ear ! )--The poacher h man who liked to .the love of sport, and the love of money.. The love of sport I would operate under any system of law t c shoot pheasants for amusementolfould 51100,t them. But the se- • coed motive, the vieW to gain, the Bill before the House would go to weaken considerably. The poacher now supplied all the markets with game; he had no one to compete with him, and :iis trade was a lucrative one ; but the case would be meth altered when the gentleman who had a thousand pheasants to dispose of, and not 'even friends to give them to, came to Un dersell him through thick and thin.—(Hear !)—The poacher now furnished the whole supply; if the Bill before the House was carried, he would only furnish part of it. And he would furnish - but a small part; for all other articles sold openly were purchased from those who came fairly by them : and what was there about game to place it in a different situation ? There were one or two arguments used, too, - which struck him as a little extraordinary, by the opponents of the Bill. It was said by sorne, : that Gentlemen, upon principle, would not like, to sell game. Now that principle, he confessed, lie did not comprehend, Gentlemen sold their rabbits already, without remorse, and why the person who sold a couple of rabbits should not sell a hare, he could not tell.—(Hear, hear !) Another statement was, that the desire to pursue game would cease when it could be openly purchased ; but to this there seemed, as had already been suggested, to he a complete and immediate answer. Partridges and pheasants could not now be bought in the market, woodcocks might ; but no one thought of shooting a pheasant or a partridge where there was a chance of a woodcock being found. His opinion was, decidedly, that the present bill would work perfectly well before it had been 3 years in operation ; but at all events it was absolutely neces sary that the game laws should be revised,-and settled upon some reasonable principle.—(Hear, hear!)—The best thing that could be done was to throw the same sanction round game that belonged to other property : at present it had not that sanction, and the state of the whole' thing was pretty nearly as bad as it could be. In case the bill before the House was thrown out, he should feel the prohibition from selling game in the market so severe a loss that he certainly would introduce a measure calculated to get rid of that particular inconvenience. To allow a man to sell that which lie had already power to give, - could do nobody any mischief; and he should certainly, if this bill failed, at once bring forward a limited one, the object of which would be to give, for 3 years, the right of selling game to those persons who had now the right of killing it. The Right Hon. Gentleman sat down, amidst considerable cheering, by declaring that (details apart) he was quite satisfied with the bill before the House; in case it happened to fail, then he would endeavour to get what he considered the next best course agreed to. Mr. S. WORTLEY explained. Ilr. CARUS WILSON supported the Bill. Mr. JOHN DOUGLAS opposed the Bill, as tending to destroy all the game in the country. If people were allowed to purchase game openly, they would eat so much of it, that there would soon be none left. Eating game would become a custom ' • and people would look for their pheasant on the Is t of October, as regularly as they did already for their goose on Michaelmas-day. The Honourable Member supported his ar gument against the Bill, by observing, that if foxes and other game were destroyed, country gentlemen would look to other sports, and would, very probably, dissipate their time and their money in those graves of property which were kept up in St. James's-street. Sir J. YORKE said, it must be evident that the present re strictive laws on the sale of game did not prevent it being sup plied in the largest quanties in the metropolis. It was proved in the Committee up stairs, that two poulterers said they could furnish the whole House of Commons twice a-week with two' head of game for each Member ; and one of them added, that on one occasion he threw 1,000 head of partridges into the Thames, not being able to obtain a sale for theta. Mr. W. PEEL oppose(' the bill, on the ground that much evil would arise from legalizing the sale of game. The pro posed alteration of the Game Laws would, in his opinion, in terfere with the recreations of the country gentlemen. Sir J. SEBRIGIIT supported the bill. The law, as it now stood, was • extremely objectionable, as it operated to prevent men from doing what they pleased with their own property. Some Gentlemen seemed to have great prejudices against any innovation on the Game Laws, because they looked upon the present state of things as perfectly natural. __A friend of his, when informed that game was publicly sold in several large tracts of country on the European con tinent, which he called " abroad," expressed his great sur prise at the information, observing very gravely, that it was quite " unnatural." Prejudices of this kind were not uncom mon in the House. They had hea rd, a short time ago, some gentlemen opposing the repeal of the usury laws, because they considered that 5 per cent. was a " natural" interest of money ; and they had also heard of some lion. Members opposing the Bill for Catholic Emancipation, because, forsooth, Protestants were " naturally" opposed to the claims of the Catholics. These were the prejudices. of habit, and ought to be got rid of., He would support the Bill, because it tended to put an end to the present system of Poaching. The Chancellor of the Ex. chequer, on a former evening, had described to the House many of the evils which resulted from smuggling, and had very pro perly expressed his anxiety that it should be put down. Ile (Sir J. Sebright) thought the , evils of poaching were nearly similar, and that it would materially benefit the country to have it abolished. Sir A. DUN and Mr. C. PELHAM said each a few words in support of the Bill, but they were inaudible in the gallery. Mr. J. MARTIN.said he would support the second reading of the Bill, as he agreed in its principle ; but he did so in the hope that it would be modified in the Committee. Some clauses. he considered so objectionable, that if they were not amended before the third reading, he would oppose the Bill in that stage. Air. JAMESsupported the Bill. He thought game ought to he considered the property of the person who reared it. The House then divided, when there appeared— . For the second reading - For the amendment Majority -—5 O On return to the gallery we found that the Bill had been read a second time, and was ordered to be coMmitted on Friday. - 82 - 26 REPORT OF SUPPLY. On the motion for bringing up the Report of the Committee of Supply, Mr. HLTME said, he was sorry that he was prevented from attending on Friday, when the resolutions for the increase of our army were agreed to. He could not concur in the proposed increase of cur immense military establishment, and that, too, in a time of profound peace. It was monstrous to think-of the proposed force as a permanent peace establishmen t, from which no relief was to be expected, and which preclude d the ho p e of a further reduction of taxes; and that, in addition to the absurd system of keeping up five millions of taxes, which ought to be dispensed with. The force now intended to be continued was out of all proportion greater than any peace establishment which was ever known In this country. He did not mean to say that we ought to reduce bur armies to the standard of 1792, but we ought to approximate that standard as nearly as possible. It was said that the increase in our military establishment was re quired,-in order to strengthen our garrisons in the colonies. He was prepared to show that our present forces in the colonies were fully sufficient for any purpose, unless a state of war was expected. The •large disposable force which this House left at the command of the Ministry, enabled them to continue that pernicious system of government in Ireland, which had led to so many misfortunes in that country. He could see many reasons why it should be diminished but not one why it should be increased. His Hon. and Gallant Friend below him said that the garrison of Gibraltar was not adequate to its defence. He found by the List returns that vie had 3,900 men in that fortress; and with such a force lie considered it perfectly safe during a time of peace, when it was defended as much by the faith of treaties as by the force of arms. An other Honourable Gentleman had said that additional troops were wanted in our colonies. He should like to know in what colonies. Was it in the lonian. Islands or in the Cape of Good Hope? He allowed that the condition of the lonian Islands had been much improved since the accession of the re sent Governor, but he still b e li eve d t h at if G reece were free, the inhabitants would shake off our protection, in conse quence of the insulting reg u l a ti on w i t h w hi c h it was accompa nied. At the Cape of Good Hope we had a Governor who was exciting discontent by t h e most arbitrary procee di ngs , an d w h o was compelling the most valuable of the colonists to return home to England, to obtain shelter from his oppression. If fresh troops were wanted to confirm the authority of arbitrary governors, he for one should be unwilling to grant them. In deed; he was of opinion, that if we tolerated the present aug mentation of the army, we should never again hear of a reduc tion of its numbe rs mentioned, but t h at t h e amount at w hi c h it was now fixed, would be taken as the proper amount o f our military force i n a t i me of paace. Instead of increas i ng t h e re gular army t o 86;000 men he would reduce it to 68 , 000 men ; and by so doin g h e would' get rid of the window-tax, and hav e a considerabl e surp l us to spare for other purposes. If we to have an excess in any part of our armed force, it ought to be in our moment for war. wanted no permanerin'at T?? , 7, which was cur heat and most - effectual expence.--,.An Hon. Member had said that we ought to have our garrisons i w n e a s p h er ou m m an n e o n t t ha s v tactea 20 years' defence, so as to be prepared at any th a i r s ri l s i o d a w s ou . a ld a( r i el pect that we should speedily have 9 occasion to go to war. We next, fi t i l a ia t had had a 20 years' war e a a n re d he could not see any reason why peace. Indeed, he thought that the probabilities were all y ' in his favour, since people always grew wiser tolfleaallidonhoatt etxve. as theew older. To put his sentiments upon record; he which he knew would should move res lution, meet the approbation of a o 1 out of the House, whatever might be its fate • . • sin the House. The Hon Member with their representa.n . e . • s --" Resolved then read the following resolution . . time that, in the opinion ofthis House it is not necessary in a . . of profound for' the service of the current Peace,. to maintain land forces, exclusive of Aar the nuniber of 86 438 regular Alannes of those for India, and alp exclusive of 9,000 Royal , 4 t H)ut 7) Boo of Royal Artillery an d gn g ineers, of 03,258 en, rolled militia, yeomanry, and volunteers in Ireland ; and of 55,000 militia, and 43,000 yeomanry and volunteers in Eng land, and of 3 , 000 veterans; making in the whole 257,496 men actually in arms, or ready to be' called out if necessary ; exclu sive, also, of colonial troops at Ceylon, the Cape of Good Hope, and in Africa, amountbss to about 4,000 men, not included in the above number. --- Col. jOIINSON, in a few words, seconded the resolution. Mr. WILMOT HORTON contended, that the proposed augmentation of the army was rendered necessary by the in creasing population of our colonial dependencies, and the in creased duty to which some of our garrisons abroad had recent ly been exposed, in consequence of certain unusual occurrences. Indeed, the duty which some of our colonial garrisons were ob liged to go through was so harassing, as to be destructive of the health 'both of mea and officers. The state of the West Indies rendered it necessary for us to have efficient garrisons in every island ; and almost every Governer had sent pressing re quisitions tothe Government at home for an increased number of troops to defend them. The same was the case in New South Wales and Van Diemen's Land, where the military had to perform the duties of the police. Under these circumstances, aided as they were by the full exposiion of our military esta blishment which bad been given by his Noble Friend on a for mer evening, he had no doubt that the House would see that this increase to the army was required by imperious necessity, and was not of such a nature as to excite fear in any friend of constitutional liberty. Mr. BRIGHT said, that if the duty to which our army . was subject was as harrassing as it had been represented, Ministers were deeply to blame for not having come forward before this late period to relieve it. He did not, however, believe it to be so severe as to cause this unusual augmentation to the army in time of peace. He recollected that, in Feb. 1821, 4,500 men had been voted, on the express ground that they should be sent to defend the West Indies. He wished to know whether that force had been sent there, and if it had, whether it had been found insufficient ?—(Hear, hear, hear !)—He complained that we had now been engaged in three wars—the Algerine war, the, Ashantee war, and the Burmese war—on which no informa tion had ever been given by Ministers to the House. Was this treating the House with proper respect. He thought not. He contended that the proposed extension of our army was utterly uncalled for, and that the circumstances of the country required a reduction of it rather than an increase. Ministers, though they had gained, had not yet deserved any popularity by their reduction of taxation. In point of fact, they had not reduced the revenue by it, but had obtained the same revenue from a diminished taxation, in consequence. of the spirit of enterpriie with which the people of England entered into all commercial transactions. Sir ROBERT WILSON should not have risen to address the House, had not his Honourable Friend, the Member for Aberdeen, seemed to think him mistaken when he said that the present garrison of Gibraltar was inadequate to its defence. His Honourable Friend had said that Gibraltar might as safely be left with its present garrison, since it was defended by the faith of treaties. It might be so; but he should think the Government very criminal if it left Gibraltar to that species of defence, while the French army were in possession of Cadiz, and a large French fleet was cruising in the bay. He believed his Hon. Friend had been at Gibraltar ; but if he thought it could be defended by 4,000 men, he had never looked at it with the eye of a soldier, or the knowledge of an engineer. Ile was quite as great an economist as his Hon. Friend, but with this difference—he was a provident economist, and would spend 1,0001. now upon our garrison, to prevent our spending millions hereafter. Mr. TRANT had recently been at Gibraltar, and begged leave to add to his testimony to that of the gallant officer, to the inadequacy of the garrison to perform the duties of the place. Sir C. FORBES contended that we had been the aggressors, and not the aggrieved party, in the Burmese war. The Marquis Wel lesley and Lord Hastings were not men likely to permit them selves to be bullied ; and yet they had bOth evaded a war with the Burmese, when there was great provocation to commence it. He maintained that we had no prospect of succeeding in a war with that people ; and said, that even if we gained pos session of the Burmese capital, we should have done but little to subdue the spirit of that high and gallant nation. He re gretted that we had not sent 15 or 20,000 men to the East In dies; as the sending of such a force would place our empire in the east out of the reach of all danger. He complained of the manner in which troops were sent to India. The vessels which conveyed them to that country were noble ships ; but then they were crammed and loaded in a manner which almost defied cre dibility. The Inglis had on board of her the other day 700 troops, and so much cowded, that before she left the Downs her captain requested, but in vain, that 100 men should be taken out of.herC Intelligence had arrived that day of an accident which had befallen another of the COmpany's ships, in which a similar number of troops were packed together ; and had it not been for another vessel, which fortunately came in sight, every soul on hoard must have perished.—(Hear, hear !)—He could not but express his astonishment at a very singular practice of the East India Company's sending out each ship singly, when they had two or three sailing about the same time to the same place of destination. It might have been expected that they would be glad to send them toge ther, in order that they might afford assistance to each other in case of accident ; but he believed that they were sent separate. ly, with the express intention that they might not assist each other. His reason for thinking so was this :--Two vessels had sailed about the same time from China to England. In pass ing through the Straits of Sundy one of them got aground ; the other quickly came to its consort's relief, took out a part of her cargo, and, by the exertions of her men, saved the ves sel to the Company. OH her return home, the Captain of the vessel which saved the other made a slight claim of 1,5001. on the Company for demurrage. The Company refused it, under the idea that one of its servants would never think of going tO,law with it for such a claim. The Directors were, however, mistaken ; the Captain brought an action against them ; and, instead of recovering one thousand five hundred demurrage, recovered 12,0001. for salvage. The Company therefore determined that no two ships should ever sail again together, to prevent their ever being called upon in future to ' pay for salvage.. The Directors had a right, if they thought fit, to risk their tea in this manner: but they had no right to to risk the lives of the brave men who were going to fight their battles in India. :Mr. LINDSAY stated, that the ships provided by the East India Company for the conveyance of troops, were better and more commodiously arranged than those of the Government at home, and had 18 inches of room allotted to each soldier's birth, while 14 were only allowed in the British service. He hoped that his Majesty's Government would .unite with the East India Company in doing something handsome for the ship which had so providentially rescued the crew from the late out ward-bound vessel which had unfortunately taken fire at sea on a late melancholy occasion. Lord PALAIERSTON denied that this augmentation of the military force was required for any purpose of patronage, and declared that the promotion which arose out of it had been made without the slightest regard to political interest, and only With reference to officers of- old standing ; for instance, the. lieutenants promoted were in general of 17 years standing.— (Hear !)—With respect to the augmentation for garrisons, he was ready to rest the necessity for it upon the testimony of the Hon. and Gallant Member for Southwark.--(Hear!) Sir R. WILSON was anxious to know whether the pensions of wounded officers would be in future paid quarterly instead of half-yearly, the advantage of which shorter period he had hinted on a former evening. Sir CHARLES LONG thanked the Hon. and Gallant Offi. cer for calling his attention to this subject, and assured him of ly fr i o n m stea th d e the anxious desire which his Royal Highness the Commander. in-Chief had always evinced for the accommodation and com fort of this meritorious class of officers, and he (Sir Charles 0 2 f 4thof .June next, the recommendation ld ot c • h oncur mt e present estimates, Lord MILTON cou n Long) should take caretocarryfionrtoqueffaretcetr, which exceeded, and on frivolous pretences, by half a million of half yearly payments.—( money, and 19 000 men, the estimates for the year. This aug ted to be justified ti mentation was attemp n the apprehension f impending dangers from abroad, which were, he thought, ° ble felt by some Honourable Members. Did quite unreasonable the colonies now require treble the amount of force which Mr. Hear !) Pitt thought sufficient in the year 1792 ? He certainly thought not, and believed that it would look much better in the eyes of foreign Powers to place the strength of Great Britain upon the foundation of her national wealth and prosperity, instead of the numerical amount of her military force.—( Hear !)—He should therefore protest against this unnecessary and uncalled for in ' crease of the standing army. Sir F. 011IMANEY strongly recommended that the quar terly payments to wounded officers should commence forthwith, instead of in June. Sir CHARLES LONG explained, and the House divided, when the numbers were— For Mr. Hume's Resolution 8 Against it - . 102 Majority - . 94 - Mr. HUME moved for a reduction of 3000/. upon the cx , pences of the Royal Military Colleg e . The vote of the Corn mittee was 13,1501.: he would move that 10,000/. be substi toted. _ _ The motion was negatived. Mr. HUME complained of the inconvenience suffered by various individuals from the delay in bringing up the arrears of military accounts. He thought that some lenity ought to be shewn to military accountants, as well as to civil ones. He wished to know of the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he would have any objection to allow a Committee, to try if some line could not be drawn so as to determine the proceedings with re- HOUSE OF COMMONS. Mr. Jou - ssoN• presented an account of the receipts and di -bursements of the London Dock Company from the 30th Nov. I8:23, to the 30th of November, 1824. Oa the motion of Sir J. BRIDGES, the Gravesend and Wrotham Road Bill was read a second time, and ordered to be ommitted. The Leith Dock CoMpany Bill was read a second time, and committed. An account of the Sixpences received at Greenwich Hospital was laid on the table. Mr. BYNGbrov.ght in the Battlebridge New Road Bill, and (ha St..Tohn's Chapel, Paddington Bill ; both of which were read a first time. A Bill was brought in for a Rail-road in the :Isle of Portland, which was read a first time. On the motion of Mr. T. WILSON, the Rotherhithe Docks was read a second_time and committed. _ _ Mr. DAVENPORT presented a petition fromßuncomb, in Cheshire, against-the Dee Navigation Bill.—Laid.,on the table. Mr. SYKES presented a petition from the city of,-Edinburgh against the duty on candles.-- , Laid.on the table. CATHOLIC ASSOCIATION. Mr. J. SMITH presented a petition from two parishes in Ca-van against the Catholic Association—Ordered to be printed. Mr. S. RICE .presented a petition from (forth, in the county of Galway, praying for the Emancipation of the Catholics, and that no law might pass for putting down the Catholic Associa tion. The lion. Member presented a similar petition from the town -and county of Galway..— f iloth petitions ordered to be printed ASSESSED TAXES. Mr. CURTEIS presented a petition from Brighton, praying for the repeal of all the Assessed Taxes. STANDING ORDERS. •- Mr. S. WORTLEY moved the following Resolution :-- " That the House do not receive any petition on a private Bill referring solely to the compliance or non-compliance with the Standing Orders, after said Bill shall have been read a first time." Mr. CURWEN seconded the Resolution. Mr. SYKES mentioned a case that occurred that day, which he thought made the Resolution necessary. Mr, W. PEEL invited any Hon. Member who doubted the inconvenience of the present system, to attend the Manchester and Liverpool Rail-way Committee then sitting. Lord MILTON strongly opposed the Resolution. If it agreed to the promoting any private bill, they would merely have to hurry on the first reading as fast as was consistent with the Orders of the House, and then all complaint would be put an end to. Mr. S. WORTLEY said a few words in explanation. We understood the Hon. Member to say, that any objections may be considered in the general Committee on the Bill. Lord MlLlON.resumed. Who were the persons that went before the Standing Order Committee ? Solely the promoters of the Bill ; and yet, on the shewing of these persons, the Com mittee reported that the Standing Orde rs had been complied with. The Noble Lord concluded by declaring his opposition to the resolution, from a conviction that too early a limit would be placed by it to the time for petitioning. W• DUND S was opposed to .the Resolution. The Hon. „Member, in answer to the explanation of the Hon. Mover of the Resolution, said, that no question of the Standing Or ders could be brought before the Committee on the Bill. Mr.- CALCR AFT was strongly opposed to the Resolution. if t he .Upuse.should aitree to it, its effect would be to make the Committee decide. c.a the ex-parte statements of the persons in terested in ca rrying the Bill th roug h. The Hop, Member made some further observigions in support of his yiew of the subject. Mr. LITTLETON was in favour of the Resolution. If time were given after the first reading, he was of opinion that it would be employed perhaps in getting astute lawyers to find frivolous and vexatious objections to the Bill. • After a few words from. Mr. CROKER, the Resolution was put from the Chair, and agreed to. Sir H. PARNELL gave notice of a motion for to-morrow relative to the Irish Butter Trade. Mr. LASCELLES presented a petition from Northallerton relative to this Bill. . Sir G. .R 0 BINSON presented a similar petition from Wel . lingborough.—Reffrred to the Committee on the Bill. • Mr. GRATT4,N presented petitions from the Roman Ca- - iholic inhabitants of Mullingar, Newton, and New Ross, in favour of the Catholic Asiocia.tion..-4.aid on the table. Lord A. HAMILTON brought in a Bill for amending the ;)sth of Geo. 111. relative to the recovery of Srnall.Debts in spect to military accounts in arrear, to see if some reasonable limit could not be put to the responsibility of itilitary account ants and their sureties. The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER said, that every thing had been done by the Noble Secretary at War and the Treasury to prevent hardship and injustice. As to drawing any line like that talked of, that was utterly impossible. In most cases of delay, it was occasioned by false accounts, and other methods of subterfuge by which the accountants sought to screen themselves. Mr. HUME wished to know why something was not done with respect to the payment of some Exchequer fees which were to have been abolished. - _ . The CHANCELLOR Of the EXCHEQUER said that something ought to be done, but nothing gravelled him more than the endeavour to determine what that should be. These fees, however ludicrous and improper in their nature, were very difficult to abolish. _ _ The other Resolutions were then agreed to; and the Ord nance Estimates were proceeded with in the same Committee. Mr. HUME, upon the vote including the disbursements on account of Slaves taken out of slave ships and free blacks 'in the Mauritius and other places, gave notice that he would in a few days submit to the House a motion, having for its object to ascertain the expenses incurred under various treaties and acts of Parliament, for the support of Slaves and Free Blacks in all our dependencies. Mr. HUME desired to know whether the sum of 300,0001. charged in the same estimate on account of the late Ordnance Survey of Ireland was to be defrayed by the public, or by the ' various counties and baronies through and over which that sur vey extended ? When he, in Committee, had supported the question for adopting such a survey, he imagined, of course, that an estimate would have been previously examined, and care taken that the cost should be as little as possible. Sir HENRY HARDINGE said that the estimated charge, when the question was so before the House on a former occa sion, was 200,000/. ; and it had been agreed to allot another 100,0001. for ascertaining and surveying the extent and boun— dary lines of counties and town lands. It was, as the Hon. and Gallant Officer believed, quite well known, that the expence of a survey by the Ordnance was about one half cheaper than. of a survey by civil surveyors. Lord PALMERSTON then moved and obtained leave to bring in a Bill conformable to the resolutions which had been agreed to. . 'On the motion of the CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, the Douse resolved itself into a Committee of Ways and Means, when several resolutions relative to the Sugar Duties, &c. were , proposed, pro forma, and agreed to. The report of the Committee of Supply, on the motion of the Chairman, was ordered to be received on Wednesday next. The third reading of the Weights and Measures' Bill was postponed also to Wednesday.. Mr. GOULBURN obtained leave to bring in a Bill to amend the Prison Laws of Ireland ; and a Bill also to ascertain the - Boundaries of Parishes and Town-lands in Ireland. Mr. EVANS moved for returns of all Correspondence be tween the British Government and Foreign Governments which might have taken plac‘: since the Ist of January, 1024, relative to the Slave-Trade—of all Correspondence betiveen the British Commissioners and those of Foreign Powers on the same subject and from the sameslate, at Sierra Leone, Rio Janeiro, Surinam, &c. ; and, from the Ist of January, 1823, of the Correspondence of British Officers and others at the Cape of Good Hope.—Ordered. The other Orders of the Day were then disposed of, and the House adjourned at Twelve o'clock. MINORITY On Mr. Hume's Amendment. Bright, H. James. \V. Howard, H. Milton, Viscount Hutchinson, Hon. Monck, J. B. C. H. Palmer, C. F. Wood, M. TELLERS. Ilume, J. Johnson, Col. The name of Mr. Bernal has been by error insetted in the List of the Minority who voted against the Catholic Associa tion Bill, Mr. Bernal not having voted upon that question. W EST INDIA DOCKS. STOCK ACCOUNT for the Week ending Saturday, the stl of 31arch, 1825. Home 'Con sumption 2,631 173 Stock on Hand. 18,028 I,lBtl 215 1,54'1 9,155 8,701 i 21,41? 1,37 3 81 1,04 g J 7 4 23,9 ( P 13, 26° 12 3 41 39 91 3,771 4 111 r 6 2,0 12,15 1 53/ 4 9 ° 0 4 2.2 31 4 5,71 4 I,o' 4 bp, pf 7, 491° 5, 01 -5 046 343 348 2,645 0 Vlayor of . 15 Liverpool ,1 0 , Ition for the repeal of the ‘S Articles. Hhds West India Trs Ills Sugar Brazil - Chests Havanah Boxes East India &) Mauritius L' a g s Casks I Pns 1. [lds Pns ( Hds llolasses - Rum - Brandy Hollands - lPns lids Casks {Pipes lids Arrack Wine Coffee Cocoa Pimento - :Ginger Pepper Cotton Aloes Arrow Root Balsam Bark Cassia Fistula Cloves Cochineal - . Elephants' Teeth Gum . Hemp Hides Horns Indigo Ipecacuanha Jalap - { Whale Oil Castor Coco Nut Palm Pearl. Shell . Pine Apple Rice and Paddy Sago Sarsaparilla Tallow - Tortoise Shell Turtle Mahogany WOOD. Logs Pieces , Plks &Bds Logs Pcs & Plks S African Timber pi Dog s Santa Maria f Logs Pieces Ebony_ - Tons Lig. Vitro • Tons Box Wood ' Tons Log Wood Tons Fustic - Tons Nicaragua Wood Tons Cam Wood Tons Bar Wood Pieces Brazilletto Tons Saunders Wood Pieces ,Lancewood Spars No. Staves - - No. Cedar A requisition to the been signed for a meeting to pet dow Tax. Exporta tion. 1.265 - Tred. Deliv 3 1 10 9 f; 61 lf; 9 10 4 79 3 39 3 3 37 4 7