The Sun. — London, England, 1831-03-22 00:00:00

Reform, be f ore illey were called upon to pronellnee on any part of tt, The order of the dty was then read. Lord JOHN RUSSELL moved, " That the Bill be now read a second time." Sir R. VYVYAN in rising to oppose the motion, begged, although the Bill would certainly affect the county which he had the honour to represent, to disclaim being at all personally interested on the subject. After so many attacks had been made on the motives of individuals, it became necessary to make such a disclaimer. He de clared then that he had no connexion, direct, indirect, ins mediate, or contingent. with any borough in the county of Cornwall. On the contrary, as far as he was indivi dually concerned, he should gain rather than lose by the operation of the measure ; for it was clear, that if the Bill passed, wherever a man's property lay. his interest would thenceforth lie also. Besides that eonsideration, there were local circumstances which, if the Bill were to piss, would render it an easier matter for him to be returned by another constituency. And so far as his interest with his present constituents was concerned, he was hound to ad mit that they were by no means favourable to the course which he was pursuing. —(Hear, hear.)—The same was no doubt the case with many other Hon. Members. The Noble Lord's Bill had produced effects not greater than be (Sir R. Vyvyan) had aetieepated; but still they were , very extensive. Notwithstanding all this—notwithstand• ing he had no personal interest whatever in the measure— yet he thought the Bill so full of danger to the country, that, with all the hazard of displeasing his constituents, he could not, before Ged and his country, consent to its adop tion.—(Hear.) Since the year 1793, when Mr. Grey, now the Prime Minister of the country, introduced his plan of Reform, there never had been a period of so many concurrent and similar circutnstantes as the present. All the arguments which at the former time were urged against the proposition, might with equal propriety be nose- urged against it. The existing difficulties, however, in the way of withstanding such a measure, were greater than those which existed when Mr. Grey, or even when Mr. Pitt brought the subject under the consideration of Parliament. The spread of knowledge, as it was called, vies much greater than in those days ; and therefore those who op posed the measure laboured under greater disadvantages. Such was the general excitation, that throwing the slight est impediment in the way of the people's wishes was threatened with the most frightful consequences. Under such circumstances, he thought that his Majesty's Mini sters had chosen a most unfortunate time to bring in their Bill. The supreme authority of the country, the House of Commons, combining in itself, as it did, so many of the powers of the state, was, it seemed to be, entirely re modelled.—(Hear, hear.)—Such being the proposi tion, he could not content himself with giving a silent vote against it ; although, during six years that he had sat in that House, he had never, with the excep tion of last year, voted on the subject of Parliamentary Reform. He should not, therefore, he guilty of any in coneistency:were be to vote in favour of the Bill ; but his feelings and his judgment both dictated an opposition to a measure which was not only revolutionary in its tendency, but which he was convinced contained within it the ele ments of civil discord ; and, while it at once violated esta blished rights, was calculated in its consequences to lead to general confiscation and proscription.—(Hear.) However strongly therefore, the popular voice might he raised in favour of the Bill, whatever popular indienation he might incur by the step, he would certainly- oppose the Bill. He was adverse not only to the details of the measure but to its principle ; and so feeling, he had no alternative but to move the rejection of the motion for the second reading of the Bill.---(Hear.) He was not disposed to trouble the House at any length on the abstract principle of Reform. He by no means contradicted the doctrine, that in all time§ and in all countries, Reform, or, to use another term, alte ration, was eceasienally necessary, and might he produc tive of beneficial f ffects. It was not to be supposed that eren the British Constitution could go on, century after century, without requiring some modification, either in the elective franchise, or in some other respects. But it was to the policy of such a measure as that propounded by the Noble Member for Tavistock, propounded under such circumstances both of a domestic and a foreign character, that he objected. A general remodelling of the Consti tution at such a period, could not take place without a great increase of the democratic power, an increase amounting to revolution. If he were asked whether he was prepared at all times to resist Reform, whatever might be the circumstances of the period, and however loudly the country might call for it, whatever popularity the Mini sters possessed who proposed it, and whatever means might have been taken to excite the people ;—if he were asked whether he would resist Reform, for that if there were no Reform there would he Revolution, ho would reply, " if we adopt your Reform, we shall have Revolu tion."—(Heare) Let the Bill be passed, and who could say how soon he might not be called to the bar of that Bowie, or elsewhere, for defending the most valuible insti tutions of the country. Could a single individual on the Treasury Bench venture to say that the present was a period at which such a proposition could besafely agitated? Was there a single existing circumstance at home which rendered it safe ? Could the Noble Lord at the head of the Foreign Department venture to predict, in the event of the election of a new Parliament under the Bill, that his Majesty's Government. would receive that support in their negociations with Foreign States which the true in terests of the country demanded? An unfortunate con currence of circumstances had excited the feeling of the people on this subject. That excitation had not been pro duced by the declaration of the Duke of Wellington in the House of Lords, that be was hostile to all Reform. Nor, or the other hand, had it been produced by ti,e French revo ution, which hurled the King of France from the throne. The Birmingham Union existed six tnonths before either of those events. Petitions praying for Reform were presented to that (louse throughout the whole of last year. A vague and indefinite desire of change had lung been en gendered among thelpeople ; and that desire bad been in flamed by the denial on the part of the last Parliament of the existence of distress in the country. What had occurred since the assembling of the present Parliament to show the absolute necessity of immediate Reform ? What was there to justify the declaration of the Noble Member for Tavistock, that what the country especially wanted was a Reform of Parliament—of that Parliament which had seated that Noble Lord and his friends in their present places ! The effect of the declaration of the Duke' of Wellington hail been very slight. Nor had the im pression of what had occurred in Paris (from their delta. mien respecting which he was glad to see that the people of England were recovering) been very powerful. The pre sent excitement was mainly attributable to the denial of distress in the late House of Commons, and to the course which bad been pursued by his Majesty's present Minis ters. When they came into power they gave three pledges, Peace—which there was great reason to fear would he dis turbed; Retrenchment—which they soon found to be im practicable; and Reform—which they were now endea vouring to carry into effect. Not one word of inquiry into the real causes by which the people of England were affected ; not one word of an improvement of the mone tary system of the country. W'hat immediate advantage would the people of England obtain from Parliamentary Reform ? In every street, in every shop, it was talked of as a panacea : but what would be its effects? Would it increase the happiness of the lower orders? Would it give them greater employment? lie had had an op • portunity of talking to many persons out of the House upon the subject, and of hearing what their expectations were. In the first place he had been told that they should get rid of tithes.—(Hear, hear, hear.)—This was the first outwork which the reformed Parliament were expected to attack. Nor did such an expectation appear improbable, when it was considered what description of individuals would be allowed to vote under the new Bill. In the town of Liverpool alone, for instance, the number of voters qua lified by living in the prescribed rate of houses would be between 15 and 16,000. When he contemplated the evils which would arise from such a system, he was persuaded that under it all the evils resulting from the potwalloping system would be increased tenfold. Could any one ima gine that, in a House of Commons so chosen, ballot would not be speedily carried? The abolition of tither, and the establishment of ballot,were indeed measures which were confidently anticipated. As to the shortening of the du ration of Parliaments, that was a subject which the Noble Member for Tavisteek had himself said might be a subject to be talked about hereafter. But there were further considerations. If ' tithea were attacked, did they suppose seats would be safe lt seat, were attacked did they suppose the National Debt would be safe.—(Hear, hear.)—When When it was recollected what had been sa id on these. subjects, even in that which was characterisedby an Hon. Baronet as a rotten House of Commons. What might not be expectedn from a reformed House of Com mons ? The tithes would fall first; but they would speedily be followed by the funds, and by property of every description. Even the twenty millions, accumulated by the industrious clam s in the Savings' Banks, would be as much endangered as larger sums. If one went all would go. It appeared, also, that certain individuals who bad not at present the honour of a seat in the House, were to obtain it by the assistance of a kind of aide-toi society. Various persons were already pointed out as fitting Members of a Reformed Parliament. Among them was Mr. Mill, who had written a book on India, replete with erroneous motions. Curious to know' what that gentleman's principles of political economy,— principles which were to recommend him to the choice of the peopie—were, he (Sir IL Vryan) had looked at Mr. Mill's book on the subject, and he would take the liberty of reading a passage from it, to show the House what was the nature of the doctrine, held ~ y such persons as might be expected to be Members of Reformed Parliament. That passage was as follows : —" The Legislature may, without any straining of lan guage, be said to possess that power which I have now spoken of only as a fiction." That fancied power was, by an act of its own, all other things remaining the same, to double that portion of the land which was strictly and properly rent; in which case Mr. Mill asserted that there would be no reason, in point of justice, why the Legisla ture should not, and great reason in point of expediency why it should, avail itself of this its own power, in be half of the state ; should devote as much as might he re quisite of rhis new fund to defray the expences of the Go vernment, and except the subjects from any burden on that account. Mr. Mill then went on to say—" By all those measures which increase the amount of population and the demand for food, the Legislature does as certainly increase the net produce of the land, as if it had the power of doing so by a miraculeue act. That it does so by a gradual progress in au real, would do so by an immediate oreration in the imaginary case, makes no dife Terence With regard to the result. The original rent. which belonged to the owner, upon which be regulated his purchase if he did purchase, and on which alone, if he had a family to provide for, his arrangements in their favour were to be framed, is easily distinguishable from any addition capable of being made to the net produce of land, whether it be made by a slow or a sudden process. If an addition made by a sudden process might, without injustice to the owner, he appropriated to the purposes of the State, no reason can be assigned why an addition by the slow process might not be appropriated." Such were the principles, the assertion of which was to be the recom mendation of Members of a reformed Parliament.—(llear, hear.) In 178 j, great disturbances began in France be tween the King and the Parliament, the people refusing to pay the taxes. Necker was then at the head of affairs, and he having assembled the notables, effected an alteration in the States-General, which was equivalent to the suggested Reform in Parliament. The double vote was given to the Tiers Etats, and to support the measure the whole Press of France was bribed, and even persons were bribed in the distant vil lages to read the newspaper articles to those who could not read themselves. In 1789, in one great debate, the clergy having been led to support the theorists—the whole Constitution of the country was cliaeged. The tithes—the manorial rights—the rights of the chase were abolisbed—(Hear, and laughter)—and all this was effected under the auspices of a patriot King and a Reformed Par liament.--(Hear, hear.)—But mark the result—in three months after, the patriotic King—the popular King—was taken to Paris with the heads of two gensdarmes, who had stood forrh in his defence, raised upon poles, and carried beside his carriage windows.—(Hear, hear.) — There was, he contended, no case in which a change in a State, coming from the impression created by the outcry of the lower classes, and the intimidation founded upon it, had not produced revolution. The fact was, that what the people now wanted was a revolution which would con vert the State into a democracy. He was, by no means, an advocate for absolute rule ; but he fancied the time might come when they would sigh for a Dictator, and submit to his sway with the same eagerness which, in dangerous times, have been evinced by the ancient nations. His intention was to move, as an amendment on the mo tion, " That the Bill he read a second time that day six months." The Bill, in his opinion, was radically bad ; and he did not think it was possible to mould it into any form which would reader it an eligible measure. He had no hope of its being so modified in the Com mittee as to induce him to approve of it; for he eon.H ceived that the principle was erroneous ; and that it would he, therefore, better to bring in a new one alto gether, than to make any attempt to patch the old. He particularly objected to the measure, because it gave too great an influence to towns, and because it was directly hostile to the colonial interests. He was also strongly op po,ed to the 101. rate, and regarded it as little better than universal suffrage. Besides, he considered the measure mischievous for destroying the variety of suffrage which, previously existed. A qualification of property was only useful as a guarantee, and a 101. rate was no guarantee that those possessing it were fit men to choose a states man. In ancient Rome, notwithstanding the occasional rule of a Dictator—in modern Venice, notwithstanding the searching tyranny of an oligarchy, glory had abounded, and prosperity prevailed. The history of nations had in fact but one page, as had been so truly and eloquently said by a great poet of our days—Lord Byron—when he stood " Midst the chief relics of almighty Rome," with the Coliseum on his left hand, and the Palaces sit the Caesars on his right, and looking upon the wreck of ages, the splendid temples, the arches of triumph, the Augustan halls, now grovelling upon earth " in indistinct decay," lie exclaimed, " There is the moral of all human tales; 'Tis but the same rehearsal of the past, First freedom, and then glory—when that fails, Wealth, vice, corruption, barbarism at last And history, with all her volumes vast, Hath but one page." (Hear, hear.) He was not in the slightest degree adverse to a measure which would give representatives to the large towns which were at present unrepresented ; but it was one thing to disfranchise all the boroughs, and another to give representatives to populous towns. And it was his inten tion, after the Bill was disposed of--after it was rejected on the motion for its second reading, as he confidently an ticipated it would—(Cheers) —to propose a resolution to the effect, that the House was determined to strengthen the representation.—(Hear, and laughter.) He did not pretend to give the words in which his motion would be conceived—(laughter)—he would not attempt to explain his plan—(Laughter)—but he pledged himself to make the motion and to submit the plan.—(Hear, hear.) When the Noble Lord had been unable, after six months' delibe ' rition, to produce his plan in anything like a complete form, be might be well excused front pretending to enter at that moment into any details respecting the measure he intended to propose. In conclusion, he stated he op posed the measure because he was anxious to vote for the continuance of the kingly authority, and the mainte nance of the basis of the fabric of the State. He consi dered it more than possible, that, by the Noble Lord's plan of Reform, they would be deprived of the many celebrated naval and military and diplomatic characters who now adorned that House—and for this and the other reasons he had adduced, he would, notwithstanding the intimidatio❑ which had been attempted, oppose the measure, consi dering it erroneous in principle, and mischievous and revo lutionary in effect. He then moved, as an amendment— " That the Bill should be read a second time that day six months." Mr. CARTWRIGHT rose to second the motion, and said he regretted that a more moderate reform of the defects existing in the representative system had not been proposed by his Majesty's Ministers, for to such he would have gladly given his support; but he could not assent to a measure which tended to the levelling of all established institutions, and which, nevertheless, as had been admitted by the lion. Member for Preston, did not concede any one of the things prayed for by the numerous petitions presented to that House. The lion. Member had stated that only two of the whole number of petitions prayed fur anything that was granted; and as to what was the feel ing of those who advocated that measure strenuously, in the House and without its doors, they might judge from a printed letter of the lion. Member for Middlesex, ad dressed to some persons in Scotland, and advising, above all things, to beware of mentioning the ballot.—(Hear, hear, and laughter.) He did not go into the details of the Bill. He thought it more manly to oppose the whole measure.— (Cheers.) Members of that House should do their duty, notwithstanding the excitement which might happen to prevail without its doors.—(Hear.) And if there should be any disturbance consequent upon the rejec tion of the Bill, the responsibility would rest upon the heads of the Ministers who brought in the measure with out sufficient reflection. The Bill would introduce too large a portion of democracy into the Constitution. It would, in fact, confer universal suffrage. He was conse quently glad to bear from his Hon. Friend that he intended to suggest a plan of moderate Reform, by which injuries might be repaired and defects removed without injury to the stability of the structure. He considered that the existing evils did not justify the danger of the attempt which the Government were disposed to make, and be felt great satisfaction in seconding the amendment. Mr. SHEIL said the Hon. Member for Cornwall had taken a most discursive view; be had e mbraced Irelind, India, Venice, and the whole empire of France, in his comprehensive disquisition. Was it not wonderful that he should not have said one word of Cornwall'—(Loud laughter.)—He (Mr. Sheil) expected that he, having pe culiar opportunities of knowing the advantages of the close borough system, would have illustrated them by some pe culiarly felicitous reference. He could only account for his entire omission of this a l m ost p ersona l topic by sup posing that, placed on a great political elevation, from which an immense horizon was opened upon him, he did itT. not nhldr, e,,,, s nl e lge e iesod t ,ni he petty n.indGauelinitatlresm o:j sorts i tah e no c ef t hf s alalioufd timmediatelyooeu,dy lugubrious v: afa bn ) t ni e cdtibn e e a ma t t h.— mitres, otsruaeb.:(eCr subversion n of horrors in the past, beheld n o thi ng b ut anarehyanH i ed n sh t a h awd e present, and ruin in the future. It was Lis (Mr. Sheil's) opinion that this measure was justified by example—that it was required by existing circumstances and the state of the national mind—and that it was calculated, as far as it was possible to penetrate the obscurity of the future, to be productive of great and lasting good.—(Hear, hear.)-111 supporting this Bill by a reference to changes which had already taken place, he should not take any distant retros oect. He would limit himself to a single fact. The dis franchisement of 200 Irish boroughs by the Act of Union had been already mentioned by his Hon. Friend the Member for Waterford, and he would not therefore dilate upon it, but observe that there were also 100 Irish Members incorpo_ rated with this House. By this proceeding, not only was the Irish Parliament abated, but the whole structure of the British Parliament was changed. Was not this a greater innovation than any which could result from the proposed additions to the county Members ; and was not the incor poration of one hundred Irishmen, differing in habits, and having at one time distinct interests, a change more violent than the intended substitution for the representatives of places of which the streets (to use the expression of Edmund Burke) can only be traced by the colour of the corn, and of which the only manufacture is in Members of Parlia ment? If it should he suggested that there is adifference— and he would admit that there was one—the Union was carried by expedients which, in the judgment of a rigorous moralist, must, to employ the softest term, be considered questionable ; but here the Minister endeavour( to accom plish a noble object by exalted means. Instead of appealing to the sordid passions, he calls for their suppression.— (Hear.) He calls on the trustees of the public interests and the arbiters of the national destinies to dismiss every selfish consideration, and to raise up their hearts to a level with their lofty duties.—(Cheers.) He had been beard. A proud mention had been made of those who had given strong evidence of disinterestedness at a time which, beyond any other, put professions of public virtue to the test. One name he had heard with peculiar pleasure. Proof had been given that there was nothing in the religion of the Premier Peer of England to disqualify him for the love and the ser vice of his country.—( Hear.) He should, he trusted, he pardoned for this momentary deviation, into which he had been hurried by his personal feelings, from the course which he had proposed to himself to pursue. He had shown that there was, in the year 1600, a very ma terial modification of the structure of this House. In 1629 there was a still greater change in its constituency. If he adverted to the disfranchisement of the forty-shilling freeholders, it was not to go ever an argument which bad been already as much relied on, but to ask what answer had been ever attempted to this important precedent.— (Cheers.) The Minister did not prune hut mowed down, with a single sweep, the franchise of 200,000—Irish pea sants, if they pleased—but British subjects after all.— (Hear, hear.) Defects, imperfections, vices necessarily incidental to their condition, these persons might have manifested ; but call it fanaticism, call it agitation, call it superstition, or anything else, it must be owned that these men, in a great emergency, (lid great things, and that it was a tine spectacle to see them throwing off in an instant the serfship of centuries, standing up in the attitude of freemen—withstanding with a dauntless intrepidity the little tyrant of their fields, and, in a cause which they felt to be a just one, looking ruin in the face.—(Hear, bear.) And if to them the House showed no mercy—if to them they dealt with a relentless, though he was sure that it was a reluctant rigour, he might be pardoned if he presumed to ask, in the name of plain consistency and of British justice, what peculiar virtue could be detected in burgesses and corporators which should excite a sympathy so pro found—which should awaken so much parliamentary ten derness, and stir to their depths the springs of legislative commiseration ? But it might be urged that necessity justified the disfranchisement of the 40s. freeholders. He would see whether Reform did not impose an equal need. This brought him to the consideration of actual circum stances. It was insisted that the country prospered—that the machine worked well—that England, with that fiscal prodigy, a debt of 1,000,000,000/. on her back, still stood erect and firm—that the countless expenditure of countless treasure and the spendthrift prodigality of her life-blood were not too large's price for freedom ; that whatever may have befallen, she might proudly contrast her condition with that of the Continent, and survey the " mighty labour" of other nations, who were tempest lost in revo lutionary agitation, with a pleasureable consciousness of her own security. To all this he answered, that there existed within herself a settled and general discontent, which was derived from causes of permanent creation, and which, instead of being the mere ebullition of transitory passion, flowed out of a deep and constant source. It was idle to say that it had not long existed, because it had only recently appeared. The sudden force with which it had burst forth was a proof that the materials of eruption had been long accumulating. It was of little avail to say that it was connected with the events on the Continent. Were we to ennit to strengthen our own institutions because this island had not felt the tremor of that great shock which had levelled the Goverment. of France and Belgium to the ground ? It was equally nugatory to say that the Press hash done all this. Then will the Press relin quish its natural vocation ? And was it not much wiser to consider, instead of inveighing against its influence, those materials, in the shape of abuses, upon which it ex erted its powerful operation ? Was the discontent well founded ? That was the main question—almost the only one. Were all the evils of which the Press and the people com plain merely imaginary? Had they no e xistence except in the distempered fancy of political hypochondriacs, or was there a gangrene that could be felt and touched, a n d that was visibly and palpably eating its way into the vitals of the state? He would abstain from going through the beaten track in which so many had gone before him, an d from expatiating upon the gross abuses of the present re. presentative system in detail. He should not repeat what had been already so frequently reiterated. He should not therefore go through what would certainly be a tedious and unprofitable repetition of what others had powerfully and minutely pressed. This single broad fact was, in his mind, sufficient to call forth the national repudiation of the House of Commons. Its majority was returned, not by the people, hut by lb° individuals. Some four or five great proprietors of boroughs were enabled to con. troul the Minister, and by their oligarchical coalition to dictate to their Sovereign, and to lord it over the people.—(Hear, hear, hear.) —That such a system should exist was a great calamity in itself, but the evil was heightened by many sordid accompaniments. seats in Parliament were made the subject of bargain and sale, and an almost open mart, a common staple, a Par liamentary bazaar, was established for the vendition of the franchises of the people. A Parliamentary broker was a customary phrase ; nay, matters had been carried to such a pitch, that boroughs had been made the subject of mar riage settlements, and had been put by the ingenuity of conveyances through all the diversities of matrimonial limitation. (Cheers.) The House had all beard that a Sultana on her marriage usually had one province awarded to her for her necklace, another for her bracelets, and a third fir her girdle. Under the system of Parliamentary proprietorship, it would be no matter of surprise to see a lady of feshion receive Old Sarum for pin-money and Gat ton for her dower.—(lleac.) The people thought it a perfect mockery to call this a national representation ; and instead of seeing in Members of Parliament the mirror of the public mind, they beheld in them pocket-glasses, in which the images of a few great nominators were f a ithfully reflected. By these means the moral as well as the politi cal interests of the country were affected. The notorious sale of boroughs generatedageneral habit of venality. These spots were not only full of distemper, but they communicated contamination. When Lords transmuted their interests in Parliament into money, by what an easy process of imitative alchymy the humbler voter would convert his miserable suffrage into gold !—(Hear, bear.)—How could we con demn bribery in tie one, when we gave it a countenance in the other ? Was the grossness of the prostitution pal liated by the largeness of its wages ; and was tine enor mity of the offence in the inverse ratio with the magni tude of its remuneration ?—(Hear, hear.)—There were statutes, indeed, against it. So much the worse. Hypo crisy was superadded to corruption, when the law occa sionally immolated some incautious offender, who corn , witted a larceny of the people's rights, and whose guilt, upon the principles of Spartan mortality, was not deter mined by the delinquency of the theft, but the folly of the detecticn.—(Hear, hear.) And was it to be won dered at that a nation, who prized virtue as well as free dom, should feel indignant, and even exasperated, at these misdoings ? Was, it a matter of surprise that there should exist through the empire but one feeling of reprobation at this flagitious traffic, and that England should start u p to expel from the temple those who have driven in its sanc tuary their unholy and sacrilegious trade ?—(Cheers.)-- But gross, nay, monstrous as these abuses were, there were men who found advantages in their existence, and whom Ciese deformities in the Constitution inspired with the perverse admiration of the love in the Roman poet Veluti Bolberium polypus Agner," It had been urged that the close boroughs had supplied the means of admitting men of distinguished abilities, who cuuld not otherwise have obtained an access to this House. They were represented as the postern gates by which ta lents which would have been excluded from the legislative avenues, contrived to get in. The answer given by the Member for Caine was a strong one. Was it not probable that if the doors of this House had been thrown more widely open, genius and knowledge would have found, through the more constitutional entrance, an honourable way ? Rot who were those that pressed round the back doors of Parliament ? How were the crowd made up how few were the Statesmen, the orators, and political economists, compared to those by whom they were sum- ' moned ! He admitted that a splendid catalogue, an em .lazoned muster-roll of genius, had been produced by the advocates of the borough system. Mark, however, ever what a vast space they were dispersed ! In how black a firmament they sparkled. But was it not very remarkable that so many of these illustrious persons, who were cradled in close boroughs, and who preserved their political sound ness, although they were nursed by corruption, were them selves opposed to the very system to which it was alleged that they owed their Parliamentary existence ? What would be said of Chatham, Duneing, Pitt, Fox, She ridan, and so many others ? Try this case, not by the votes of the living, but by the votes of the dead ; enter the sacred repository within whose echo the House deli berated—count the graves of the illustrious men who were opposed to Reform, and of those who were its advocates, and on that division it would be found that the majority of sepulchres was in its favour ? But even if he were to ad mit that they were against it, and that this House would lose the chances (for they are but contingencies) of receiv ing men like them through the medium which is the theme of so much panegyric ; yet what would be the loss com pared with the certain deprivation of the public confidence? Place in one scale the antique genius of the elder Pitt—the extraordinary abilities of his illustrious son— the impas sioned logic and inspired humanity of Fox—Skeridan's wit—Grattan'e integrity, the sagacity of Windham— Tierney's eloquent common sense—and 'the multifarious endowments of the accomplished Canning, and crown the. splendid accumulation with the surpassing name of Ed mund Burke ; and after you shall hive hoarded and heaped up virtue, patriotism, wisdom, and eloquence together, throw in the opposite side, the confidence, the affection, the devoted allegiance, the enthusiastic sympathy, the entire hearts of millions of the people, and where was the man who would for a moment hesitate in determining the preponderance.—(Loud and continued cheering.) It was alleged by the Hon. Member for Cornwall, that this mea sure destroyed the influence of the aristocracy. How ? There were 55 new county Members. From what class were they likely to be selected ? Would they seek to build their fortunes out of the ruins of their country? Mem bers were to be given to large town*. Would their inhabitants show no regard to opulence, to hereditary dignity, to ancient neighbourhood ; and instead of looking for representatives amidst noble demesnes and venerable halls, would they accept every wandering knight-errant of sedition, and itinerant visionary in codification.—(Cheers.) There was a singular variance between the logic of the non-reformers and their sarcasms. They spoke of Tavi stock with emphatic signification. They meant that the influence of the house of Bedford would continue. If so, why should not the influence of the other great families continue elsewhere ?_( Hear.) Thus their syllogisms were overthrown by their satire, and their argument evaporates in their ♦ituperation. This Bill would not wrench their des potism from the oligarchy—it would not touch the legiti mate influence of property, and birth, and station, and all I the other circumstances which create a title to respect. It would take power• from individuals, and give it to a class. It would cut off the secret and subterraneous conduit pipes, through which aristocratic influence is now con veyed to this House, and would make it flow in a broad, open, constitutional, and national channel. Away with the charge that it would weaken the monarchy. The Throne would be built on the confidence of the people, and find new pillars in the Nobility; and so far from the Crown being loosened on the head of the King, the dia dem would be fastened by another band on the Royal brow, ---(Cheers.)—But it was said that this measure was not final ; not final—what was there in human affairs that was? It had in it as deep a principle of permanence as Can be perhaps thsired. The people ought not to he con tented with existing abuses, but they ought to be with their proposed remedies. All just grounds of complaint would be taken away ; and it was reasonable to anticipate that the characteristic good feeling and good sense of the British nation would take upon this measure a firm stand. The objection that this measure was not final, embraced all change, and comprehended all Reform. It was the favourite ritual of every idolator of every abuse. Beware, they exclaimed, of innovation. " All this," said Lord Bacon, " would be true, if time stood still, which, how. ever, moved' so round, that a froward retention of custom is as turbulent a thing as innovation." Were the dangers all on one side? Ile had observed that the opponents of Reform looked only at the possible dangers of concession, without any regard to the evils of denying it. They should not forget the principles which they themselves applied to Catholic Emancipation. It was with a very timid and cautious step that he ventured to approach that great transaction, which appeared to him to furnish the principles on which this House ought to decide on this equally momentous question. He begged to deprecate the most remote intention of availing himself of it (he was not so ungrateful) in order to turn it against a man whom he considered as a benefactor of his ceuntry, and who, in his judgment, had earned for him self a lasting renown. At that instant he felt it4th a pe culiar force the value of his services. —(Loud cheers.) He trusted that he should not be considered to make any un due or thankless use of the event to which he had referred, when he said that every argument, which applied to the exigency of emancipation applied with still greater force to Parliamentary Reform. He was convinced that when it was conceded, it was a lofty mitigation of any pain which might have accompanied its concession, that what was necess my was also just, but that it was granted from a well founded apprehension of the consequences which might have followed from the adoption of an opposite course, was beyond all doubt. What single circumstance • that rendered it unavoidable, did not meet the present case ? The Irish Roman Catholics were strongly confede rated; millions were in league; the popular passions were arrayed and marshalled. He passed over many incidents, to which it might be painful to revert. This dreadful agitation could not longer continue ; at last the Minister came down and said, " Much as it costs me, I sacrifice my feelings to my country ; and to the salvation of the empire I make an immolation of myself." God forbid that I should refer to this acknowledgment for the purpose of making ally idle and thankless vaunt !—(Hear.) He sought for liberty with a strenuousness proportioned to the noble ness of the acquisition and having won it, he flung every factious recollection, as he would a viper, from his heart.—(Cheers.) —lt was, then, in a fair and candid spirit that he ventured to ask whether, if the pressure of the Catholic question was such as to bear down all impe diments before it, there was not as much accumulation of political necessities—as deep a mass of imperative urgency —in Parliamentary Reform ? There were many obstacles in the way of emancipation; a large proportion of the Irish Protestants, lunch of the property and intelligence of that country, and the deep, but honest and conscientious, and therefore the more formidable, prejudices of the Eng lish people. Compare these obstructions with those that stand against Reform. What were they ? Where were the petitions against it? 'Who were its opponents? They might be counted. Who are its advocates? Millions of Britons, with their Sovereign at their head.—(Hear.) — If they had listened to the voice of Ireland, would they be deaf to English invocation ? If Ireland had force enough in her arm when she struck at the door of the Cabinet to make the mighty captain start, was the hand of England eo feeble and so powerless that they would not awaken at the thunder of her knocking.—(Loud cheering.)—lf Ire land was now in a state of evil susceptibility, the House should recollect that it was their own doing. These were the results of years of agitation, produced by the madness of delay. Let them beware how they put England through a similar process•of excitement.--(Loud cheers. )—What ! would they wait till all England should have been orga nised ? Would they tarry until a great confederacy should have sprung up? Would they abide until the rostra of agitation should have been raised in every district?— Would they procrastinate until the popular passions should have been maddened by ferocious eloquence, and infuriated by revolutionary harangue ? Then, indeed, they would have cause to speak of the influence of the democracy— then they would find the demands of the nation swollen into perilous enortnity—then they would behold the power of the people dilated beyond its just, and natural, and constitutional proportions, and ascending into a gigantic magnitude.—(Loud cheers.) Concede,—and that they might concede in safety, concede in time. An HON. MEMBER, whose name we could not learn, and who was almost inaudible in consequence of the con fusion in the House and the galleries, said that he should certainly oppose the measure. He was surprised that the subject of time disfranchisement of the Irish forty•shilliing freeholders should have been so often referred to by the advocates of the measure, and especially that it should have been referred to as a case of injustice—fur, if he remembered rightly, many of those gentlemen who were now the supporters of the Ministry, had at that time praised it as a liberal and necessary measure. It was said that this measure would satisfy the people. He doubted that assertion very much ; and if this measure should he passed, he wished to ask the Noble Lord what was the se curity we had that fresh attacks would not be made on the rights and privileges of the higher classes of society? He feared that such would be the case, and he should, there , fore, agree with the proposition of the Hon. Member for Cornwall, reserving to himself, if any moderate measure of Reform should be proposed, to give it his support. Mr. PENDARVES said, that as representativ e of that county which would be most affected by this measure, he could not but be anxious to express the sentiments of the great majority of his constituents. lie was happy to say that the present measure had their highest approval. He hoped to see it pass triumphantly through that House, and he trusted that Ministers would not consent to lose any part of the Bill in order to gain a few votes, hut that they would insist on retaining all the details of the Bill as they now stood. Since the provisions of this Bill had been known in the county, he had received petitions, stating the perfect satisfaction felt by the petitioners with this measure, and their hope that this House would carry it into effect. A county meeting would take place in Cornwall in a few days, convened upon the requisition of 1,200 persons, among whom were no less than forty Magistrates of the comaty. The Sheriff, in obedience to such a requisition, had called the meeting for Wednesday, and its declared and avowed object was to express the ap probation of the people of Cornwall of this measure of Reform. The loss in the representation of Cornwall would amount to more than two-thirds of its members ; and some Hon. Gentlemen might be surprised that that county should be such a firm supporter of the measure ; but he could assure such Hon. Gentlemen that the system of borough representation in Cornwall was no benefit to the county at large.--(Hear, hear.),—The persons whose petitions he had presented were those who had seen with disgust and abhorrence the evils which acconip tnied the present system of borough election in that county. He ❑eed not enumerate the evils Of that system, for its infamy and abominations were well known. He would not now further trespass on the patience of the House. He knew there was a strong and almost universal feeling among the middle ranks of society in favour of this measure ; and on behalf of his constituents, as well as himself, he declared his sincere approbation of it, and his thanks to the Minis ters for having introduced it.—(Hear.) Lord VALLETORT disagreed with those Hen. Gentle.. men who represented this measure as one cf safety and con s-rvation. He hardly knew where to look among the Hon. Members who supported the measure without being able to find some cause for recrimination. )(the mode of elec tion became more popular, did Hon. cel.Vernbers in'easi to say that they would exercise no discretion in the discharge of their duties? When men came into that House they were bound to act according to their own judgmerit; and if they did, the extension of the franchise would not give the people a greater controul over them. He asked the Hon. Baronet the Member for Westminster whether, if a conviction arose in his mind that what lie (Lord Vallatort) was now arguing was correct, lie would not act according to that conviction? and whether the Hon. Baronet would nos do this though he was sure that in consequence of it he should lose that laudable object of ambition—the honour of a seat in that House ? Whether he would or not, it was clear that a person in the Hon. Baronet's situation, had a particular motive in supporting this Bill. There were also other supporters of the measure, who had gained honours and emoluments by advocating the cause of Re form in Parliament. He could not say that they were chargeable with inconsistency-, for he admitted that they had supported similar opinions throughout their lives, but still it was ecar they were not without particular reasons for supporting this measure There were others again who supported the measure, in order to win popular ap plause an l to forward their ultimate designs by its means. He did not wish to impute motives to anybody, but lie asked for similar fairness from the supporters of the reeesure towards himself and those who entertained the same opinion with himself. If the measure were re commended in e ground that the people ought to have a larger share in the Constitution, the answer was quite evident, that three-fourths of the nation were absolutely dis franchised by it. The Noble Lord then alluded to a resolution adopted in the Long Parliament, and to the cry then raised against the Bishops and what were then called " the rotten-hearted Lords," and contended that it was impos sible to say where the present agitation would end, al though he did not believe that it would proceed to the length of endangering the loss of the head of the Mo narch on a scaffold. He admitted that a permanent want of sympathy between the Parliament and the people was an evil, and on this ground chiefly he had at length brought himself to vote in favour of the Roman Catholic claims, although he had thei by severed ties much dearer than any arising out of sordid motives. He adverted also to what had fallen from the Attorney-General:in an earlier part of the evening, and expressed his astonishment that that Right Hon. Gentleman who ought to stand foremost to punish libellers, avowed his reluctance to prosecute for a paragraph which termed Members of the House of Commons the " hired lacqueys" of the patrons of bo roughs. He also noticed the prevailing agitation in the country on the subject of Reform, and blamed Ministers for doing their utmost to provoke it, instead of adopting may steps to allay it. While out of office their conduct had been widely different ; but almost as soon as they en tered upon their duties, they introduced a measure which could not fail to cause the strongest excitement. He had a great respect for the Noble Lord at the head of the Go vernment, but he must observe that the history of the country afforded no parallel instance in which such great and permanent injury bad been done by any Ministers as by the present—(lean )—His opinions might be errone ous, but they were honest ; and his convictions, he would assert, were those of a most independent Member of Par liament.--(Hear, hear.) Mr. C. GRANT began by observing, that he rose at some disadvantage so soon after the House had been occu pied by the eloquence of the lion. and Learned Member for Milborne-port, whose speech had so completely repaid them for the attention they had bestowed on it. The Noble Lord who preceded him had seemed to suppose that the opponents of Reform were likely to incur the imputation of being influenced by unworthy motives, but he could assure the Noble Lord that be ascribed no motives except such as were just and honourable to him, or any other Hon. Member who happened to represent a borough which it was intended to disfranchise. All who had seats in that House were on a level, and every one in it had an un doubted right fairly and boldly to state his sentiments on any legislative measure submitted to their consideration. The parties who opposed the proposition of Ministers, he repeated, were probably actuated by sincere and honourable motives, nay, even by a generous feeling on behalf of those who lied returned them as the representatives of their in terests. I❑ the course of the protracted discussion which this subject had undergone two weeks ago, it was ohserved, that the question of Reform had never before been intro duced to the notice of Parliament under more favourable auspices, and he would venture to add, that the debate had given the friends of the cause an opportunity for contem plating it under a still more favourable aspect.--(Hear, hear.) They had been told that it was revolutionary, that it would overthrow the Throne, and annihilate the Peerage ; anal it was only natural to suppose that such portentous vat'cinations would produce a powerful array of the champions of constitutional freedom through out the land ; but what was the result? An appeal had thus been made to the country, and how was it answered ? Why, by one universal acclamation iu favour of Reform.—(Hear, and cheers.) If Mini sters in proposing such a measure had required any fur ther justification, it would have been abundantly supplied by the c uduct of their opponents in that House, and by the applause and the unanimity of their countrymen out of doors. One feature of the present debates was not a little remarkable—the question of Reform and Anti-Re form had at last fairly fallen to the ground, for scarcely one who opposed Ministers on the policy of their propo sition, had been induced to stand on the principle of Anti.. Reform.—(Hear.)—When the Hon. Baronet opened the debate of the present evening, he had certainly expected that he would intrench himself in some impregnable posi tion ; but that expectation was at once set at rest by the assurance that the lion. Baronet himself entertained a plan of Reform which he did not, hovever, think fit to divulge to the House. In the necessity of some such policy all who were now in opposition professed to agree. The question, therefore, was no longer one of Reform, or no Reform : that was absolutely decided. The only points at issue were, what should be the nature of the Reform, and when ss i tp t rupaaeir s tnat h sikoai o eerl u rt;: l at d to the existing agitation, the fact of which was universally acknowledged, had somewhat differed from the other hipeotn)❑ surfacerr aa h rr e yy a ;e s x c oc r ifti i b t e e wtm d haeesn i t t not to tb theb itte e hwe am:nd na t e - o e dr - e: but the tempestuous excitation which pervaded its ex , tremest depths, and which, he felt assured, would he permanent while the causes continued to exist.—(Hear, public man who bad, with an observant eye, regarded the state of the country for the last four or five years, could shut his eyes to the fact, that the subject would be soon forced upon the attention of Parliament, and that the time would, ere long, arrive when a decision would be inevitable, perceiving that the present senti ments of the public were grounded on a principle of the truth of which they were couvinced. Public opinion, properly so called, was never to be disdained in a free country like this, and it should always form a main ele ment in the deliberations of such an assembly as the House of Commons.—(Hear•)—Dering the last fifteen years much had been done to open the way for Parliamentary Reform, but that which chiefly conduced to its advance ment was the removal of the prejudice which taught that ' affection for the Constitution ought to resist any attempt at the amendment of its acknowledged defects. The pro ; grass of knowledge had removed a fatal barrier to improve ; went, and the Right Hon. Gentlemen opposite bad al ; ready shown that a regard for existing institutions was perfectly compatible with an enlightened their defects. A firm but reverential hand had lately removed even the sacred veil of British justice, and the ecclesiastical establishments of the country had likewise received the advantages which a liberal policy alone could import. The Right Hon. Gentlemen thee b , rfe ha Y s i alluded to the ineffectual attempts at Reform the been made within the last few years, and enforced to. bere ed necessity of a more extensive measure than had fore been attempted. An enlightened people eoulP f l" 0 that their rights were invaded, that the interterencit. of the two other branches of the Legislature u'l l sh : t rectly by the orders of the House of Commons, Yet that the Constitution was rendered a dead letter by the its ' s , teal violation of those rules—an infraction of which W:s perception Of nevertheless held to be a high contempt of the ril e of the Commons. What answer but one could they °, to an unanimous and indignant nation thus expostulattl, at their bar ? They were desired not to yield to ist i e g t i / l e dation, end this had also been the language held ta Duke of Wellington on a former occasion; but he °wil e d rather say, delay not concession until it shall be sorest from the Legislature as a right, not received al a b°oo and he was to o b serve , th a t th e t one o f the opponentss a°, Reform in the d e bat e whi c h h a d recently been held thatl' far from concili a t or y. W as no t th e co untry told /.• those evils of which all co m pl a i ne d and sought the elb°'d tion, were beauties, not deformities, and had contribtlltsbe to the splendour and prosperity of the e mpire? 50 people, however, were happily too enlightened to be e tiolt easily deceived ; and it was therefore to be boil ed me et those who could suggest no mote specious atg e— i g would abandon their opposition. So far from ag ree ;t with the Right Hon. Baronet opposite, who asserted o/p, the foreign stetee4 Europe ought to have deterred gitiot, ters from proposing this measure till the political aeits the of our neigltiutt:s should have subsided, he 600%d present ntorroOtt• peculiarly opportune for the • iatetes, the the cause of lititrin, and trusted that the decision et d a n House would prove at once gratifying to the peop le lionouraLle..-to themselves. s aid Mr. W. RANKES, in allusion to what had beeo with respect to the opponents of th e measur e not b av t l r et pressed a division on a former stag e , ex p res sed his PI by approbation of the course which had been adoPt e those who intende I to vote with him on the du e ' tlfl e a lF tl e The petitions and the clamours out of the House asked Government to make one experiment, and the G ° ', - be ie went was preparing to make another.—(Hear.)-- -I° ,,i she course on the subject, Hon. Gentlemen on his side " . ,i, e y Reuse had pursued the example set by Government; t hey had allowed this Bill to pass its first stage, and they li l y going to reso:ve themselves into their individual eater! ' and to determine on its ultimate fate. It was Of', A that the Bill was an experiment ; that it would pr,"°-,ero re-construction of the House, arid that it would ut4,,,` at . mote a return to that which had been its former st s— e ; t any period of our history. There was, however, one of in which this Bill had not one of the characteristics wiled, experiment. In ordinary cases if an experiment Is .00 you might at least return to the condition in whi ch ,. ,j,el were before you made it ; but if this experiment is ; 0 ' and worked, as he firmly believed it would, to our r!' - n , there would be no return for us to our present coudiu°l,-0 (Cheers from the Opposition benches.)—lf there ere te btia Administration at the head of affairs, in which the P, u 0 0 could place confidence, he should be loth to make suc:rers experiment, even under their auspices ; but if there ory on the opposite benches an Administration, whose e ao d project had ended in failure, and whose every mar ch ; to counter-march had terminated in a change of fr'''" l f os avoid the consequences of defeat, lie would boldly d, sc o sa that under such an Administration, no ration a l would ever consent to try it—(Che e rs from the '' t r eele sition ) —no, not even if they had to enlighten ,:, s eed that new and burnished article, which be bel'oe would not turn out to be a safety lamp.—(Cheers fro° o r Opp isition.)—He bad never conversed with any soPro f $ of this Bill who did not, first of all, declare OA tbe e general measure, it was most unexceptionable. an d 0 1d I add, that in his particula r district or county it ce l ° /c' 0 • operate rather awkwardly.—(Hear.) Even th e the and Learned Member fur Waterford, who had lus7 bed most able and eloquent speech in behalf of this 0 ) % he fallen into this admission. He hod said, that thong tho had no particular means of judging of the effects 0f m ost Bill in England, still he believed that it would bei",oll, beneficial. He then thanked them for it in the be at 'Oa and yet afterwards, when he cause to consider its oper;i o g in Ireland, where be had the best means of s e q °l tle knowledge, he said that it was an abominable Bi ll ' l ei could say that the oeeration of this Bill in the cou n t e d, with which he was most intimately eoe t ' s ' o - ere would be injurious. In that county nine Membe rs a le to be swept away. The inhabitants, naturally ended looked for some compensation for such a sacrifiee„ th ey then, " blest be the Gods for what they take asvait ioe . of found that no addition was to be made to their ne ti , 3 .o ° county Members. In Dorsetshire there Were I No t acres, and a population of 119,000 souls. Ne tc. se ' 0 0 01 ; tinghistushire had a population 4,000 less than vtioael thine, and yet Nottinghamshire was to have two ad d c ; de s Members. Again, the population of Cumberlarli69o, 124,420, exceeding the populati• in of Dorsetshire bY ;here' As it had a 16th part more of population, it Was' ti's g fore, to have double the number of representatives'coetY this right ?---(Cries of " Oh, oli.")—Again,t oe- Se of York was to return two additional Itlembe e rl s i i etie stable were the present provisions of our law, tbal,",, re rnt it was not more than two or three years since the u%setss went had given two new Members to Yorkshi re, to give now determined to alter that arrangement, and I two Members t o eac h o f th e th ree r idings. Th weo ,: e tiYl Riding, which cont a i ne d a p o p u l a ti on o f 700, 0tlu t ;Ire° was not to have the same pow e r of returning A• t e es , ; which the East and North Riding possessed, as ; turned four M em b e r s , a lth oug h th e y had n0t,,,,,": arg • number of inhabitants o f the W e st Riding tal . 'l' l ents which had been used in support of the 131 , --q- e,:f nosh other side of the House reminded him of ththatttl" King, who had said, that if he had been consulted:o/JO creation, he could have suggested manyimprovenaelitose the present imp e rf e ct sy s tem of th e world, as flir, in b that a man should hav e f ou r legs instead two.---(' ere A Right Hon. Gentleman, whom he did not theralighteo, his place, hut whose eloquence had pleased and de dJat him, had alluded to the individuals of high neva ° jeoll' i estates who supported the Bill, and had asked t ht 'illiog i l d whether it could believe that such men wo uld 1 3 , goal • bring about a r e vol u ti o n. He would ask that Bigaditioas ; Gentleman, whose learning and industry added t h at so t e a grace to his high descent, whether he believed , t ` ul a IP3 time of the long Parliament, either Lord Essel, , ,, - had e Northumberland, and Lord Broke of Warwick , t v ", - , ' carried the sword of state before the Soverelb a ' ea t. ; • dreamt that, owing to their honest, but ntisg u e id t e t, o°° „ § e tions, the blood of the head of the monarchy, an", , i;0 3 ;1 1 of the head of the church, would stain the seati' l tlie s ti r r , men, with a fanaticism similar to that of our dsl'ijig tai • not directed to the same end, some of them ~b e, betio * • thous, some of them misguided, and most 01 '',,541 0 ,, lented individuals, lent their hands to Lite in tb o ee, • tremendous engine, which they afterwards fou P jog y es selves incapable of stopping ; and then in povertP li , e ls t ve l • in mortification and contempt, rued the day in iftle.ot • had so misdirected the energies of the countll' heA it, se' ' a hod ,on his shoulders—(Loud laughter)--; aehe • call his fellow-workmen t o g e th e r, and boil ( ' 9 4 d og which might last for some 20 years; but, a s o , e - ' (Here the murmurs whi c h h a d p erv aded the 0° - „a r e o the former parts of the Hon. Member's sPee eb 'pecs ° • dered it very indistinctly heard in the galle t Y e 'l e oll' er e hie loud, that we could not hear how the Hon• ' Ade' i plied this metaphor, or, indeed, how he °la the speech.) ol vie Mr. SLANEY supported the second read ing tr est ers ; Bill, and contended that those who argued t lj3 ,j e t oe ll , e- she her for Gatton was virtually the Member for . rt ott ll /.,i t es and that the Member for Old Sarum Was, ci te tbe i , j r ea Member for Birmingham, were adding ins ults Oe 36 :10a ries which they had indicted on the peop le. a ietY the House that in the middle classes ofth is one' never heard a single objection urged ag atost , a t ' i l e os s , • Throughout the whole country there ,' st she deo versal cry in its favour, and he thought t": t be:J aae s , p w tiro o an u y. l e, d ,r) t o a f k l e s.l,:2 7o om m uigl i l a ii : ot h n s u n o l o i fot we e t . es people.—'(list itself p i f l e. i_t C eirs e f ti ; di , 1•;.: t e should ne t ' t wo refuse it.—(Cries of " Hear" and " Q ue'f ie b f y o eat Hon. Member for Gatton, and the lion. Di e he , tewits Sarum, might cry for the eaestion, bu t titil eat'Weel there as the representative of 20,00 0 ee l ; l e s ho u th om t anxious to speak out their sentiments ; a nt „ ri Ce , himself base indeed if he did not give at tel- ees elfe. - 0 1 " in spite of ouch interruption.—(Hear , be `t r.j "e °it :lr • pelted that, when they came to the divisitie I. , he should see the Hon. and Learned tr!Chr,/,0 o A be r r e o r ti o g r l i i?)ri x tl i g ,a e l , k N o c u i t o ar h n a , d i n b a ee n u n • should not be surprised if be S n% a a' sv alt hetth e d ghePs :"17;t,;°11°16' Gatton following them like another t n y ss . ee t or e q d e ges i n question.)—He could not see upon what J os be Plea' oes 13 i rod, hers as voted against the second reading !crie s 0f 11" °51 voting against Reform altogether.--(1,el ees•the their r n o d w s ntheeaubsoer.oulighe-rheoluldienr(siedcotuhleA Itsrer • from the Opposition benches.) --11, saido/le. teefo_o,),..se • was voting on the question of Reform 1 01 , 00 eitl° Co ld I No wan, WllO bad not recently been hire • (Repeated cries of " No,• no," froul colle tri ettCat