The Sun. — London, England, 1834-02-21 00:00:00

the lay irnpropriators, and the titheholders ! to , the Com missioners would havetake an account of the total 4 44 t 'mount due to each p arty, and i ssue an or d er f or pay (o on the C omm i ssioners of Woods and Forests rtttduetthinus forefull amount, subject only to such reasonable costs and ' expenses of collection to be deter- Mi ned and hereafter described. Of course these sums were to b e a ;A , r 4.1 to each party as long as the redemption ,onsisted money, but whenever it was invested in Di d' it would be made over to them. In these andto':fo com prehensive statements he had endeavoured tenti v eY to the House the idea of the plan it was the in. d i r i t u e a_ a fi n s e O t f his Majesty's Government to bring forward first wall to convert tithes into land. x was quite aware that the subject of a general land tax they Popular on twoground ; some approved of it because were en er• --w ""o submit to the destruction of tithe r e ti l l ' r tY, and others because they thought it would be a illrenient mode of including all the charges upon land in I tt a i and. It was the bounden duty of Parliament to heel'ismeans for realising. property in the hands of . the moree -le "; and if it should be attempted to be done in , a adg,eneral way than by a land tax on the plan e h l - a " L a rriaed, • - perhaps, be found that they °a dr iven it to wn tr u an ' sfer considerable burdens from no:ewho wer e now b y l aw li a bl e , t o others who h :at so li a bl e, an d suc h a propo sition could ll It entert a i ne d on the f a i r pr i nc i p l es o f j ust ice i tina i e l f ! b e inquired w h y fi ve years should be chosen as the lean e llecting thi s redemption, rather than four or six tha ; but th ere i s some reason f or making this choice, the -'i t he trillion, or about 800 0001., which wasalmo a ti ‘ t he , torsos) amount of composition—such a period tient, _ .thne h est to discharge this. It must. be sumsd t e l o'r by the transfer of lands, or of the :• ci tl to some other species of property. The periodad taeLlt_ten years seems not applicable to the case, nor traijr ° us to Ireland. The Bishops' lands may . be made fa h lle to the purpose at a trifling cost, by beina t he t ",to the purchasers at an equally favo . urabl t e l a l t a t t h; tams) tue re is sufficient reason for considering Iti s i a t i ney he applied otherwise with more advantage.. to n's) r to suppose that the four-fifths . of land in the kai a i M ay be held still in the same position, and the re fill, ri g Efth appropriated to the object proposed by the h 4 er thus the most equitable adjustment take place by tffeet• an eernent.—(Hear, hear.) Wlen this mode of Ile f l 4 a transfer s hould be duly c o n sidered, it would *llo4,,i'd to possess the weight of testimony from many Ile pr:are reflect e d u pon and a pproved of it.—(Hear. lers ti ;l M f red to as cer tain, by a commission, composed of 'Pith ' ul lY competent, the number of years compared he ed `''e fee si mp l e o f t h e l an d i n w hi c h t h e tithes might r lit4t6 tlt ned in th e diff eren t districts of Ireland.—(H ea • t he Havin g thus ascertained the number of years, her f put would be governed ,by the rate of the h i tt io na :- tri4-,Yheara applicable to tithe. As an instance to the in Position, there were some counties in which nd hi th e :" worth twenty-five years' purchase, e hr th " the tithes would be estimated at twenty. years'.c. t htl 4 ,7 — e-( - fear ) There were other counties in whi la th 45 .4 4" Was estimated at not more than 18 years' pure th to l 4 4. 4 `i in these the tithe was not estimated at more rose'., Years' purchase. In the majority of the 4 41 I,,,e't according to the evidence in 1813, the th" a s worth 20 years' purchase, and the value It te e tit he was worth only 16 years' purchase. enti hot 14, necessary to read through the whole statem ef t ;" e three instances which he had mentioned would be he a e ' d e n d t to illustrate the manner in which the measure i t hat a t h""erileed was intended to operate. Having state( Whi c h e ° 6 ject of Government was to frame a measure he Woul d W "u l 4 admit of the redemption of land .tax, the fur state what were the advantages which ter it) eld forth to the landowners. He would beg those z r rPr e L nim ° who were landowners in Ireland and their sntatives to do him the favour to suspend their *hie ail" for the present, for he could assure them, - L ec irllidered that lie was fully borne out by 44thlit"lent, that the measure, though it would P,ettyegiti.trended with the serious diminution of the pro• '"tabl e t he Church, yet it would be attended with consi- Pla et , e advantages to the owners of land. In the first tter t a' d he hoped that the owners of land generally the dnot consider it any mean advantage, that tad ad °d of this 'measure would put an t° he combinations and confederations which sa le n 'ted in this description of property, to the innuener drieetvi,!l which followd in its train, and which had had I n a the country all capital and industr which which leitverewaZ t he value of their estates, and had oo mean de cr edit o f t h e country generally. These were Wit h at• vant ftges, but the measure would he attended he bad ra"e positive advantages. In the first place h a k_ 'tilted that it was Proposed to give to such land au a b a a were d e ,i t , . atenamtof ous of redeeming their tithes, not only power te re,Overoto,s,-fiftli of the composition, but also the ••••(111urtnurs, andue,:eirsoleof, amount against i r th ,, e ) ir tenants. Surely nothing could h e more Order, order.") e . W as subject to the mgr " Just than t is. The land the Property of the p ayment of tithes. It would become w oalti be fairly an i :t n h e e rs ' Particula • who, having purchased it, whole amount. If in any `arty r instance the landlord chose to make his tenant to the benefit, be was Perfectly at liberty to do so. Meat. b ear s Wor t h t ' L had already stated th it on land dte tte , wenty years' purchase the tithes might be re came for the amount of sixteen years' pur- Poßiti ' He considered that this amount of He 1 ' 1 ) e 4 would be favou ra bl e to the landowners. ch ar cl Stated another proposition, viz., that those iettrge Should b e re d eema bl e b y any one w h o bad an grou n d i n th e estate. He went upon the same iro;" as a late Act of Parliament had laid down, that 0 14 1(1 w ho had a lower interest in the land than 21 years, sent , b 5 Precluded from taking advantage of the pre late! C eaa nle• It was as was now the case with the 'Poe t T a t ' that after five years that part of the charge , r e tic! t l and should be put an end to. The law always gre the ed the property as belonging to that party who . had t Prote7tr.e,teat interest in the land, therefore the present Pei 'vas only carrying into effect the same that e 00 had already been done by a late Act of i ned e °l ' i le• He had stated that the payments should be al trfii the tith e owners, subject only to those t ad "ee ' l la t' i . g ge c harges at ten d an t u p on th e ir collection—to Prop ose they were clearly liable, and . therefore o '`rict that they should be deducted. . In Plan — l, ""ce s therefore, it was impossible that one uniform P a t . °P ' d" °ulil govern the whole of Ireland. He , then ,"'itai s a 4 : to a einr the same sort of Com eeettdri as were at present employed, in order Nht li- t er of reportand ere upon the proper reductions that di g - t ° tic h t. e rnadeu upon the tithes in each parish re shoul d the reduction n li P o ex w e e e v e e d r, an p a imop o o n s n e t d of t i li o at per Mce n u t! tere'eg"t,hare oectar:l to tire observation of some gen ad ta '' ' t ta ; at a difficulty would arise from this arrangement fo 4 r - , ri Such a case the clergyman would have only was ve ry ' OOl., the money being considered . in stock. a 4 Pet e „, - ` eonsidered probable that any long period would ''ttte 'thout havin a satisfactory investment fur the ci4 e ..!--s(Rear a g r, hear.) From records that bad th e threneti'yealrl!sitipoessies'ositoenl,a elapsed appeared that during 1 prior to the year 1830, I „O v a d n u „' of the llatd id i P ff Ireland was not less than sa eir aterli a r n g, s e a rl% for the purpose of redeeming 4 ti lw4 Ye til O t't . t s es an abundant supply of land would be - kti 5 1 : in th e market. Honourable Gentlemen, / t4 ille l°°-i ng into this Bill, would find that ex t Was PrOViSiOnS had been made for this putyose : ti t , t.° Poled, also, that the value of . all trees felled of h a t t k l en eYa Which should be placed in the hands 'l' ll. o lt i N h: " of . property under certain circumstances, en ere applicable for the purposes of that Act. i able r a vari e ty of minor details, which would I' h a °. adequate supply of land to be found I 1, 110 Ca nY rarta h in Ireland for the purposes of that Act. H i "4 inrn ittee Would bear in mind that certain parties ,that ti 4 ru st a dvantage of a Bill lately passed through th ' t st ing 1 fo r the payment of the composition due, th e Per cent. Of course, the payment of led •v would be considered a land tax and none of reeloliltu:locould sustain any loss. The Committee ~i ' eseio n er ts a m the Ac . t which was passed during the Wa ' s l' 4 u t. se ta ' ae ' in t ,e i r n t p d rovis k ions Were made for such persons g them also liable, but that ts e 'rwardo altered ema by m the House of Lords, and this e a t Z tit l'ae a t l ece l d i. e 6 d i_ to . that afteratio . n. They still, however, e i n the first instance, inasmuch as it th at Dtto n () I ,l ° Posed to make composition of ever u themr land tax, and the Government ri taking tu a l e u r ain g t oe l ves, there could be sk whatever in also whiea ", c lergymen from the peculiar liabilities b e ti that th e 1 "y were placed. It was the intention (Mr. r i. , 414: amount advanced to the clergy should the Li made tlEpou the funds to be collected. He one t_ ea tiet 4 r'exv that one of the objections by which he moot he 7, h ettle would be met would be th at : I ° , a u , g ) ht little) sometimes heard, but on which orreliance could be placed— Mun„ • ' a t e no Mete beartinfaori°L nro positition was undue and unfair Propertyre oof this description. The Hon. ittioTlausitiort 4 ,` l astated on a previous occasion that tea that (Al e , t t !". the effect of raising the tithes, Ire lies it ' i sle litttlet") at that time incautiou,ly st ad mit- t air, aeo r e tru e i n one-third of the parishes . but , un Ile ho• r reet if halned that he should have been 1 1 'eV td th at dd stated one-firth of that one-thirt . vet d" few cases indeed existed in which any increase had at all taken place, because the commissioners bad nothing. niore to do than to ascertain the amount of tithes aar..ed for or adjudicated to be paid, ind charging that to the nw❑ r of tie parish, taking only into account the ailjus men , term. He bad endeavoured as well as possible to inquire into some of those minute cases of increase that hail taken place. The Committee were aware that a clause hail been introduced in the Act giving to each Commissioner power where be thought the amount tendered to him was considerably lower than tie amount that was due, and not exceeding one-fifth of the anieunt of the composition. The Com missioners, he was happy to say had had recourse to tbat power in but very few cases. It bad happened when the landlord had been a lay ialet - et.acor, and where the tithe had been separated from the rent, that by that operation a nominal rise had taken place in the amount of tithes ; again, i❑ some cases the amount of increase had not occurred upon the whole amount that was charge able upon the parish, but upon the amount charge able upon individuals, and this had only been productive of great clamour and dissatisfaction. Several instances occurred of persons who were afraid of lending any countenance to vestries, that they should resuscitate tithes, which they bad supposed were buried. Instances occurred where they would not allow persons to attend vestries, and prevented the requisite number, which is ten, from attending. There were many individuals at present in town for the purpose of explaining those cir cumstances, to which he (Mr. Littleton) alludes. Regarding the subject of illegal combination, some cases might have occurred when such de mands were made as were unjust ; but there were some cases, such as in abbey lands, where land, though exempt from composition, still became chargeable under some peculiarity of circumstances. In the parish of Ardguin such was the case ; but there always remained an appeal which was available to the parties who thought proper to have recourse to it ; and there were few instances where parties were debarred from these advantages, that it did not arise frotn their own neglect of all available means.—(Hear.) An objection might be raised by the landholders of the following kind—they might say " Why do you deprive us in 1830 of those advantages which are now se cured to us by the price of grain being the basis of composition, which, in 1840, may possibly be considerably lower ?"—(Hear, hear.) In the Bill be had not introduced any clause in reference to that point, but it might be worthy of consideration whether they should not he allowed the advantages of the existing scale of prices in regulation of the redemption. Sir R. PEEL asked the Right Hon. Gentleman who would be made to pay the expenses of law proceedings and others? Mr. LITTLETON said that as the Bill stood at pre sent, the tithe owners would hare to pay all expenses. He believed he had included every point of importance in his statement, though he confessed he found great difficulty in so doing, it being a matter of such mag nitude. He could not sit down without impressing upon the House that the Government were not sub mitting any proposition for the appropriation of the revenues of the church. The two questions were totally distinct. It was the bounden duty of Parliament to realise this property, which belonged, if not to the Church, most undoubtedly to the State.—(Heir, hear.) The Right Hon. Gentlema❑ concluded by moving the resolution : " That it is the opinion of this Committee that the composi tion of tithes in Ireland ought to be abolished from and after the Ist of November in the present year, in consideration of a land-tax to be annually granted to his Majesty, payable by the persons who are, and have been, liable to such compositions, and of the same amounts, such land-tax to be redeemable, and out of the produce a provision to be made for the indemnity of the persons liable to such compositions." Mr. O'CONNELL thought the Right Hon. Gentleman was not entitled to call upon the House to suspend its opinion of the plan until he brought in his Bill. He was disposed to congratulate the House that the Secre tary_at•War had not yet brought in the army estimates, because, after the speech of the Right Hon. Gentleman, he might find it necessary to consider how far he should increase the army, for that army must certainly be in creased, and very considerably too, if thig measure was to be carried into effect. (Hear and laughter.) Never was a more idle scheme or fallacious proposition. The Right Hon. Gentleman seemed to have a bad opinion of the understanding of the Irish people—he might be ig norant, anti lie (Mr. O'Connell) was sorry to say he be lieved he was ; but be ought not to think so lowly of the Irish, as to imagine that by merely changing the name of tithe the country would be satisfied. He had read that the way to obtain a character for oratory was to bring forward a bundle of facts, no matter how applie ible they were, and certainly the Right Hon. Gentleman had brought forward a number of factß, but could any thing be less applicable than they were? He had brought forwatti the averages of several counties, but let it be remembered that none of those were southern counties. Mr. LITTLETON observed that he had taken them from Armagh, Cavan, Fermanagh, Kilkenny, Leitrim, Londonderry, Mayo, and Sligo. Kilkenny certainly was the only one of the southern counties. - Mr. O'CONNELL then proceeded to deny that the number of tithe payers had been diminished by the Com position Act, and declared that it had greatly increased. (Hear, hear.) In all villages and small towns in Ireland, the labourers with small kitchen gardens were now charged with tithes which they never paid bef ire the Composition Act. The averages of the Right Hon. Gentleman had been taken from persons occupying small plots of ground, and who paid but a few farthings in tithe.—(Hear, hear.) He entered into these details not with the dispositio❑ of finding fault with the Hon. Gentleman, but with a melancholy presentiment of the way in which the measure would be received in Ireland. It would at first be received with a shout of ridicule—that he did not fear ; but next it would he thought of in a more serious manner, and of that he thought every one had a right to be afraid.—(Hear, hear.) Why should not the Government take other measures to put an end to the tithe agitation, which had been in existence for the last 75 years ? There certainly had been a lull lately, but it was the cse even in the worst of storms, and so it was now. He was afraid that the measure propounded by the Right Hon. Gentleman would again stir up the passions of the people. They might again renew their bloody laws ; it would be in the recollection of the House that only a short time ago the punishment of death was put upon all offences, even the most slight resistance to the payment of tithes. They might again renew those laws, but it would not m die the payment of tithes more easy.— (Hear, bear.) How should a statesman look at a ques tion which had been agitated so violently by a whole people for such a length of time as seventy years ? It was not the amount of money that was objected to, but the manner in which that money was applied—(Hear, hear)—that caused the extent of dissatisfaction that prevailed. That agitation had existed for sixty or seventy years, and he defied the Right Honourable Gentleman to deny that it was not now as vigorous as it ever was. If there had been a lull, as no doubt there had been, it was only caused by the faith the people of Ire land put in the promises of the Right Honourable Gentleman, which were now to be all falsified. This was the extinction they had been promised. What was before tithe was now to be called land-tax. The grievance was not to be extinguished nor lessened : nay, in some instances it was to be increased, he believed, one third— Mr. LITTLETON—One-thirtieth. Mr. O'CONNELL—The Hon. Member now said one thirtieth, and on a former day he had said one-third. This was the way in which he was legislating for Ire land. He (Mr. O'C.) would venture to tell him that he was legislating in the dark—that he was consulting neither the feelings, nor the wants, nor the wishes of the people of Ireland. He might still go on with his sys tems, but they would be found unavailing. The people of Ireland had been themselves so criminal in their oppo sition to tithes, that others could feel no compassion for them ; but instead of palliating remedies for them, the Government had done nothing but tithe them, and fleece them, and coerce them. What else, he would ask, had the present Administration done for Ire land ? and now they come down with this greatest of all humbugs that was ever brought before the country—this land tax. The Hon. Gentleman had commenced with his winning pity for the Protestant clergy, then he gave them a sum of 60,0001. to relieve their distresses, and then he took all the powers with which the law armed him of execution for debt, seizure of the person, and, in abort, every mode that could be had recourse to to get back his 60,000/: He understood that 12,0001. had been recovered, and that it cost 28,000/. to get it back.—(An Hon. Member exclaimed 20,0001.) As far as he (Mr. O'Connell) could collect, it had cost 28,0001., and he had endeavoured to wade through the returns for the pur pose of ascertaining the fact. He would prefer being contradicted by the Right Hon. Gentleman himself, but at all events, it was admitted that 20,0001. was thus expended. Nay, what was worse, horse, foot, artillery, and marines (for he understood five or six com panies of marines were thus employed) were put in requisition, and scoured the country from one end to the other, at least three provinces out of the four, to get back this 12,000/. ; and thus horse, foot, and artillery were - sent 'bunting after pigs, and many after cattle, and carrying off the clothing of the peasantry, women as well as men, and thereby getting up as pretty a scene of predial agitation as ever was witnessed in Ire land.—(Loud cries of " Hear, hear.") What followed ? They then came down with their Coercion Bill; instead of conciliating, they laid this blister upon the shoulders of the people. This was the first step in tithes; the second was the Bill brought in by the Right Honourable Gentleman for composition, and there never was a Bill so grossly opposed to the interests of the people. What were they about to do now ? They were about to turn the landlords of Ireland into tithe proctors.— (Cheers.) He implored them to pause before they did -o ; let them recollect, that it was not the amount of the payment, but the application of the money that went to the hearts of the people of Ireland. They had a double ehject in view—one was in full force, the other, which had been kept as much as possible nut of the view of the people—he meant the rent—would be soon as much agitated as tithes had ever been. They had hitherto been separate. Landlords of Ireland look to yourselves ! You are made by this Act tithe proctors, and rest assured that agitation will soon he applied to rent as well as to tithes. He implored the House not to entail still greater miseries upon Ireland, or they would soon find that an attack upon a sinecure church would be soon turned into one upon landlords and rent. He felt it his duty to protest against this Bill as not holding out the smallest species of relief to Ireland.—(Hear, hear.) He protested against it, as holding out no alleviation whatever to the miseries of Ireland. Why could they not legistate with common sense? Was there not common sense in Ireland ?_(Loud laughter.) He thanked them for that t beer ; he really deserved it for asking them to act with common sense towards Ireland, for when had they done so ? —(Cheers.) He would ask them what would the people of England think, if they had a monarch like James 11., with a subservient Parliament, or if one of the illustrious house of Brunswick should take up the prejudices of the ex-illustrious house of Stuart—if he should reconcile himself with the Pope of Rome, and if he had a majority of that House with him—suppose be passed a law giving all the livings of Protestants to a Catholic clergy, lie would ask them what would be the feeling of the people of England? They would, and ought, to look with just indig nation and abhorrence upon the wretched imitator of James 11. They (the Government) wanted to preserve the sinecure Church in Ireland. There are thirty parishes in Ireland, and not a single Protestant in them. In the southern parts of Ireland, nine-tenths of the Protestant ministers had no congregation. He (Mr. O'Connell) called ten them to disengage the people of Ireland from paying for a church they derived no benefit from.—(Hear, hear.) But that was not the scheme adopted. No ; the Right Honourable Gentleman smiles, but his plan is not one that can be called a rational one.—(Hear, hear.) It would be very cruel to send a class of gentlemen like the Protestant clergymen of Ireland adrift upon the world. No one in that House would be more anxious than he (Mr. O'Connell) was to preserve them in the full security of that estate which lasted for their natural life. , It was co inheritance, it was but a life estate. Let the State supply the Protestant part of Ireland with ministers of that religion, but let them not continue a sinecure church. What was attempted to be done in Scotland under one of those very Stuarts ? Wby, to force a church upon the people, and, even unto death, the people were driven to their moors and their fastnesses, but they came down with the claymore, and smote them (the English Go vernment) to the earth ; they did not fight for any thing but for toleration in religion. Did the Right Hon. Gent. mean to allocate any thing to the Roman Catholic Clergy in Ireland ? He did not say that lie would ; but be (Mr. O'Connell) could tell him that that clergy would not accept of any thing, and if they would they could not. If the Bishops accepted of it, the secular clergy would not, and if both accepted of it there could he no pretext to give it to the Friars, and thus the parish Priests and Bishops would be deserted, and the friars would have all the religious duty to perform ; so abhorrent was the idea of a connection between,Church and State to the Irish people. He (Mr. O'C.) was an organ of a great portion of the Roman Catholics in Ireland, and he could say, that no measure would be more dastardly condemned than any connection between Church and state. He called on them to alleviate the condition of the people; to pause before this Bill was laid on the table. The Right Hon. Gentleman made some mistakes on legal points. He (Mr. O'Connell) would make no observa tions en that, as they must have proceeded from his not being acquainted with law ; but he rose to protest against any acquiescence in the Bill, introduced by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He disap• proved of it in toto. It afforded no relief ;it effected no alteration in their present grievances. What matter was it whether the lash was laid on too high or too low, if they still continued to flog, and the unhappy victim still writhed at the triangle ? The alteration took care of the landlords and the church, and still visited the occupiers of the land with the s tine burden as before. Let tithes be abolished, and such part of them as could be rendered susceptible of commutation, let it be appropriated to the lowering of rack rents, to the building of hospitals, and the introduction of an equitable system of poor laws. Let this be done, and let them hear no more scolding speeches. Mr. SFIAW thought the proposition good, inasmuch as it tended to render the liquidation of a just payment less burdensome to the payers. As to what the Hon. and Learned 'Wernher had said about the people's objecting to the application of the money being altered, he (Mr. S.) thought that a point with which the payers had nothing to do. The Hon. and Learned Member seemed to profess himself desirous of avoiding agitation, which was rather curious, considering how much that Hon. and Learned Member had been connected with agitation. Mr. H. GRATTAN called the Hon. and Learned Member to order. The nutter now introduced had nothing whatever to do with the question under discussion Mr. SHAW would not contend the point of order with the Hon. Member. All he would say was, that he hoped the fullest time would be allowed for considering the pro posed 1311, before it was proceeded with. Mr. FERGUS O'CONNOR did not see that agita tion was so much to be deprecated. Political agitation had produced much good ; and be could assert that never had the county of Cork, for instance, been more generally peaceable than when in a state of agitation.—(A laugh.) He much regretted that the Right Hon, Secretary Lad not done more for I reland. The disappointment with regard to the present Bill would be universal and poig nant. While the House were voting 20,000,0001, for the emancipation of Negro S!aves—and no one disputed the justice and munificence of the act—the Irish felt that nothing was done fur them. The inefficiency of the present measure would fully appear, when properly under stood. The late Hon. Secretary for Ireland (Mr. Stanley) shook his head, but he was not remarkable for his good wishes towards Ireland. On the contrary, the Irish attributed much of their distress to that Right Hon. Gentleman's acts i❑ the last year. The present Secretary had promised them abolition of tithe: he hail changed it to a land tax, by which they would be as great sufferers as ever. This was not the way to extinguish repeal agita tion: on the contrary, where there had been one petition for repeal, there would now be a hundred. Nor did he see that the landowners would he much better pleased by this Bill of the " Chorea Secretary," the Heaven born Minister, No. 2. He (M. F. O'C.) thought the landed interest would be equally disappointed with the tithe payers; and these two great interests would for the future unite, and the Hon. Secretary would then see what recep tion this Bill of his would meet with. He seemed not to expect that the people of Ireland would not pay tithes : he would find his mistake, and to him would the blame of all the mischief revert. He (Mr. F. O'C.) hoped, however, that the House would not sanction the measure. Mr. BENETT supported the motion. Hon. Members opposed the measure, without, however, suggesting any better plan. He (Mr. B.) was hostile to tithes; but he thought they would be removed by the proposed plan of commutation, which be thought would produce the effect generally desired. As to any portion being transferred to the rent, such an occurrence could not take place until after a series of years. It was true the landlord would reap his portion of the advantage, but it was equally true that he was entitled to such portion. He would ask the lion. and Learned Member for Dublin, whether it was his desire to have the tithes swept away without compen sation or commutation ? Did he want merely to relieve the Catholics who had made their engagements in lands subject to the tax? Was it the object of the Member for Dublin to relieve only these, and leave the Protestants to pay? He (Mr. Benett) was surprised to find such strong objections to tithes proceeding from Catholics. The Hon. Member for Dublin knew that it was with the Catholic Church the system of tithes originated. That it was there the fraud was first made sacred, and hallowed by Canons, Decrees, and Councils.—(Hear, hear.) For himself (Mr. B.) it was sufficient to know that they were now legal, and as supported by the law he bowed to them ; but then they were instituted by the nation for the national interest, and therefore could be treated of by the Legislature for the general advantage._( Hear.) Colonel DAVIES was of opinion that the million granted last session was a most ill-advised proceeding. The measure now proposed, instead of allaying the hos tility to tithes, would, on the contrary; have a counter tendency.—(Hear, hear.) Instead of the opposition now offered by the peasantry alone, it would excite the hostility of a new class, and array landlord and tenant against the impost.—(Hear, hear.) Indeed it would have the effect of setting all Ireland in opposition to it. At present, not withstanding the assistance afforded to the collection of this tax ; although it could call to its aid horse, foot, ar tillery, police, and marines, they found it a tax difficult enough to be enforced ; and how much more so would it be when rendered obnoxious to this new class of opponents. It was impossible that a tax of this sort should continue to be drawn front a population of six or seven millions, for the support of a system which they believed to he bad, and the maintenance of a church which in their souls they detested. It had been tech put by the Hon. and Learned Member for Dublin, when he asked how should we of this country act, if the case were reversed, and that we were pieced in the position of the Irish Catholics. Why, in stead of passive we should resort to active resistance. — (Cheers from the Irish Members.) Hon. Members then should make the case their own ; but, unfortunately, when discussing Irish matters, common sense and general usage were thrown aside. In his opinion some measure could be proposed, which, while it conciliated Ireland, would at the same tiff e benefit the state in general. He bht strongly on this question, and had perhaps strongly expressed himself; hut feeling the measure proposed not a- all adequate to the circumstances which called for it, he felt it his duty to oppose it. Mr. COI3BETT would only trespass a few words upon the House. The Hon. Member for Wilts (Mr. Benett) Lad said that the Protestants ought not to be blamed for the evils of a system which had originated with Catholics, arid that tithes were the invention of fraudulent priests; hut it was very odd, when the Reformation made the change, that the honest Protestant Church, notwithstand iag its abhorrence of Popery, should still keep the tithes ; they got rid of all the errors of the scarlet lady—absolu tion, extreme unction, all, all but the tithes ; and those they still preserved with most holy reverence.—(Cheers end laughter.) Such was the fact; and therefore the less the Hon. Member said of fraud the better. The evil con• sequences of this boasted Reformation were felt even now. The lay appropriate tithes were fruits of the Reformation ; and by the complexity of interests which they involved, purtled this question more than any other circumstance. This was one of the consequences of the Protestant rob bery of the Reformation. When in the possession of Catholics there were no lay tithes, no thought of that monstrous thing which now gave theta all the trouble. So much so, that they may well say, in the language of the Scripture, " The fathers have eat sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge." Hon. Members when speaking on this subject did not appear to understand, or seemed to think of the state of things in Ireland, but con founded the question with thQEnglish one, where the peo ple were only called upon to pay the teachers of their own religion. In Ireland the people were compelled to pay the teachers of a doctrine which they abhorred. The Hon. Member blamed the Member for Dublin for not having proposed a plan of his own. He (Mr. Cobbett) would beg leave to suggest one. The question was simple. It was one of pounds, shillings, and pence. It was well known that the maintenance of tithes in Ireland cost Eng land no less a sum than two millions. They rendered ne. vessary a police force of 300,000 men, besides 23,000 troops. Indeed, any army movements which took place were almost as a matter of course intended as preparations for Ire land. If this source of everlasting contention were removed, Ireland would present another aspect.—( Hear.) Irishmen were as industrious as the English. The produce of the country was sufficient proof of this. They were content with a Lars return for their labour, in truth with less than ought to content thent.—(Hear.) The Parliament should consider this. They should consider, too, the great pecu niary gain which would be effected by rendering Ireland peaceable ; but, above all, they should consider that by doing justice to that country, by establishing peace in the land, and conciliating the good will of its inhabitants, it would prove to them their right arm when called on to ail in the defence of their common interests.—(Cheers.) In the last session twenty millions had been gra , ,ted to effect the emancipation of the negroes. Would it be too much to expect a similar sacrifice for the purpose of effecting the tranquillization of Ireland ? He was certain twenty mil lions would effect this object.—(Some Irish Member here intimated that fourteen millions would Ise sufficient.) Even if it required twenty, why not make the same effort to tranquillise Ireland as to emancipate the Negroes ? Par liament had a similar power in both instances, and lie was sure no one would object to the means of producing so happy a result. This tranquillization would never be effected while the Church in Ireland continued to be sup ported as it was. He would not undertake to pronounce a scheme so large and so full of detail as that of the Hon. Secretary for Ireland, bad. But it was too complex in its form, and it still I.ft the sting rankling. It did not do what lie (Mr. Cobbett) expected, for he had given the Government credit, and still gave them credit, for good wishes on this subject. He would beg of them not to make the Church in Ireland so strong as to obviate the good which miitht follow from beneficial measures. Mr. BENETT explained. When first tithes were established by the Catholic Church, and the people wished to know what they were to give, the clergy replied, You may give what you please, but not less than was given by the Jews. Mr. O'CONNELL said all the Hon. Members who had spoken expressed great attachment to Ireland. They were all friends of his, but unfortunately Ireland was like the poor animal in the fable, who had many friends—(A laugh)—and not a whit the better off for all their love. If the Hon. Member (Mr. Benett) had been as constant in his attendance at that House as he professed himself to be in his love for Ireland, he would not have asked for his (Mr. O'Connell's) plans, with the repetition of which he feared he had too frequently fatigued them. He would not now repeat them, but content himself by stating that he would take off the thirds which pressed upon labour, and aiso that which overlaid capital, and then form it into a quit rent for public purposes, whatever remained after satisfying such of the clergy as had life estates in it.— (Hear, hear.) This would be a comprehensive measure which Ireland could understand. Then there would be no massacres of proctors in their sleep, as he feared would otherwise be the case. Predial agitation would be at an end. As to the proposition of giving land to the Church, it would, as was proved by witnesses before the Committee, be found a worse measure. Mr. BELLEW contended, that whilst the proposed measure would have the effect of increasing the burden on the landlords, it would be found a mere temporising po licy, having in it no comprehensive principle of relief. Mr. CUTLAR FERGUSSON was of opinion that the tithe, as it now stood, besides being a tax on land, was in its nature vexatious. He also thought that it was essential to the peace of the country, that the Catholic clergy too, should be provided for.—(Hear, hear.) The speech of the Member for Oldham had certainly entitled him to the thanks of the Pope. The landlords had no more title than he (Mr. Fergusson) to the tithes.—(Hear, hear.) The lay appropriators had in almost all instances acquired their right by purchase, and any attempt to de prive them of it would be little short of robbery, and the same as if committed on any other property.—(Hear, bear.) If the tithes amounted to more than was neces sary,—if they increased to excess, then let the surplus go to the poor, or to its other original purposes. The Hon. Member then proceeded to contend that the burden of tithes fell upon the landlords, and that the levying of tithes in kin•i operated as a tax on improvement. By the law of Scotland tithes were the property of the state, subject to the maintenance of the clergy.—(Hear, hew.) For his part he would not touch any portion of the tithes either of England or Ireland, until he was first satisfied that the clergy were amply provided for. But the clergy must have regard to the circumstances of the times, and be pre pared, like all other classes, to make voluntarily such sa• crifices as those circumstances imperatively demanded.— (Hear, hear.) If this measure were to be opposed, he hoped the opposition would not spring from the clergy : for opposition from them would, he feared, be attended by most lamentable consequences.—(Hear. ) Mr. LAMBERT approved of the greater part of the plan, though from some portion of it he dissented. The principle of collection in the shape of a land tax appeared to be judicious, and indeed the only fair and effectual mode of preserving tithe property.—(Hear.) If tithes were to remain in any shape, they must be collected in this manner. To several of the details he objected, and he thought that 16 years' purchase was far beyond what ought to be given. With regard to the question of ulti mate appropriation, whatever that might be, he could conceive no better plan to make that appropriation effec tual than that of receiving the tithe in the shape of a tax into his Majesty's Exchequer, and afterwards distributing it with the other revenues of the nation. With regard to the attacks which bad been made on the Irish Govern ment, lie should be unworthy of holding the situation which he filled if be hesitated to express his firm convic tion that there never was any Government in Ireland so anxious to do good by every means in their power as the present.—(Hear.) That Government had not done more, every reasonable man would admit not to be their fault. The reason was to be found in thci difficulties which they bad to encounter on both tides of the question. Alirit of these difficulties sprung from deep rooted party prejudice.—(Hear.) There was, unfortunately, a para mount party in Ireland, which would do their utmost to prevent the Government from -doing any good there, for the very purpose of keeping up an ill-founded odium against thew....( Hear.) He therefore urged the Govern meta to make this measure as full and effective in its de tails as possible, and to amend those parts which appeared to lie defective. Unless they did this, a cry would be im mediately raised against them, nil the Irish people would he told to despair of anything like jest; , te at their hands. He called on the Government to go the ful• extent of which their power admitted. If they di l not, they would he most culpable. Let them fear neither party ; let them give to Ireland an honest, just, and merciful measure; and he was sure that they would be supported not only by that House, but also by the good sense and concurrent voice of the people.—(Hear.) Mr. SHEIL said the Right Hon. Gentleman, the Se cretary for Ireland, had lately laboured under the burden of gieat encomium from that (Mr. Shell's) side of the H , use. The measure which the Right Hon. Gentleman 1. el now introduced, would, however, relieve him from any such oppression for the future; for it was one by no weans calculated to produce satisfaction. The Right Hon. Gentleman had declined to enter into the question of ap p!ication ; but it would be very gratifying to know what were the opinions of the Right Hon. Gentleman on that mast important point.—( Hear. ) The opinions of his prede c,ssor were known. He was the unqualified champion of the Church. He had never disguised his opinion. lie storted in political life as its champion, and he maintained his chivalry to the last. The Right Hon. Gentleman \lr. Littleton) had a great deal of experience, for he had belonged to almost every party; and yet, on referring hick to his political life, it was difficult to discover what his opinions really were. The Right Hon. Gentleman bad referred to the language of the King's speech :—" I re cotnmend to you the early consideration of such a final ad jesttnent of the tithes in that part of the United Kingdom, as may extinguish all just cmuses of complaint, without injury to the rights and property of any class of my sub ' j .cts, or any institutions in Church or State." Now, if there were any meaning in that portion of the speech on which the present measure was said to be founded, it was this—that no part of the property of the Church was to be abstracted from it. What, then, did the Right Hon. Gentleman mean by saying, that the question of ap plication or appropriation of tithes was not brought forward ? If there were to he any alteration in the appropriation, why were they not told of it ? What excuse could there be for not stating that which was the gist and essence of the question ?--(Hear, bear.) But on what ground did the Right Hon. Gentleman believe that this plan would be more successful than those which had preceded it ? Would it materially diminish the number of tithe payers? 'Why they heard from the Right Hon. Gentleman that in sixty-two parishes alone they had now sixteen thousand rate-payers, who, by the operation of this measure, would probably be reduced to 9,000. Thus in 62 parishes only they would have no less than 9,000 occupiers paying, or rather liable to pay, this laud-tax. Thus the diminution of difficulty in collection, so far as it depended on diminution of numbers, would be very little, and as the class of persons who would be liable to pay the land-tax was the same as that which now paid tithes, they would still be subject to time evils of which they now complained under the Tithe Composition Act. If the occupiers would not now pay tithes, how could they expect the same persons to pay a land-tax? He appealed not to speculation, but to facts, and on the same ground that previous legislation had proved unavailing, on the same ground did he tell them that the present proposition would prove equally futile. It was not fair to call on those who acted with him to produce a plan i❑ opposition to this. Such ex tempore legislation could not be expected, and it was for the Government to defend their own plan on its own me•• rite. If the Government had attended to the advice his party bad given them in 1532, they would have avoided many of the evils which they had entailed upon them selves. The question of appropriation was everything. They complained of agitation—let them take away its ground-work, but the present Bill would not touch the cause of the agitation complained of.—(Hear.) He was net one who called for the subversion of the National Church, but he required that it should be put upon a footing more adapted to the wants and feelings of the people of Ireland. He would conclude with this remark—that before the Catholic question was settled, the people of Ireland refused to submit to tithes. Before then the pea santry revolted against their payment ; and now that the Catholic question was settled, now that Roman Catholics were placed o❑ the same constitutional level with the Pro testants—now that 33 Catholics had seats in that House, and were backed by the support of a large majority of the people of Ireland—now he told them that it was not in their power to maintain the National Church as it stood, and that they who vainly endeavoured to maintain it, would themselves be crushed beneath its ruins —(Hear.) Mr. H. GRATTAN said that the words "final ad justment," used in the King's speech, were not exactly the words to use in speaking of Irish tithes. There had been already several adjustments, which were termed find, but which eventually turned out to be anything hut final ; and no man could say that this measure was likely to be a final adjustment of this question. The resolution pro posed by the Right Hon. Gentlemen spoke of redemption in money or land ; but in his speech he spoke of land only. The present proposition seemed to have been con tained in the report of 1832. They then abstained from giving any opinion as to the application. The Irish Mem bers opposed that proposition then, and yet the Right Hon. Gentleman came now to ask them to agree to it. Did not the Right Hon. Gentleman know that in 1822 there was a meeting of the Nobility and Gentry, Members, &c., connected with Ireland, at which this very proposition of purchasing land was mooted, and it was unanimously decided to be a very bad arrangement ? That meeting rejected the plan of purchasing land, but adopted that of composition for tithe ; and yet the Right Hon. Gentleman now expected them to agree to it. It was impossible for them to agree to this plan, on two grounds —the difference between the two propositions, and also the amount of value. By purchasing land for the clergy, they would make them bad landlords and worse clergymen. Let them look for one moment on the large amount that was proposed to but given. According to the calculations, for tithes of 2401. per annum, the former was to receive 350 acres, valued at 1/. ss. an acre. Ile would appeal to any gentleman whether this was not a preposterous amount. For his own part, as a landlord, he must decline the honourable employment of tithe•proctor, for in that situation would the landlords of Iceland be placed by this Bill. It would be as impossible for the landlords to col lect the tithes as for the present tithe proctors. He knew a gentleman who was told by a tithespayer, shortly after the passing of the last Bill, "What ! do you think we, who could beat the police, shall nut be able to beat the landlords. We both can and will," This was not to be despised, and the man who introduced such a measure must certainly be a very bold Minister. He cert-dnly did think the Government was placed in a very awkward situation between two parties, whom it was exceedingly difficult to manage, and the best advice he could give them, in order to get rid of the difficulty, was to attend to neither. There was much truth in the observation of his Hon. Friend, the Member for Wexford, that Ministers appeared to he afraid of trying to what extent the reformed House of Commons would support them. He called upon them to cast this fear aside, and, in legislating for Ireland, to legislate not for a party, but for the people. After again adverting to the resolutions passed at the meeting in London in 1822, of the Irish Nobility and Members of Parliament, and suggesting that the principle of those resolutions should be adopted, the Hon, Member .moved an amendment to the following elkict " Resolved—That it is c:bseatial to the peace and tranquillity of Ireland, that the system of tithes in that country should substantially and unequivocally cease and determine. " Resolved—That it is essential to the peace and tranquillity of Ireland, that the rights of those who possessed a vested inte rest in those tithes should in every instance be recognised, and that it was the duty of Parliament to make just compensation to such persons out of the land tax. " Resolved—That a contribution soulKi he levied from the property of Ireland for the v t ;.rpo.ws of religion and charity, but that it should be rv. t ised by a different mode of collection from that of tiihes, and that the application of it should be submitted to the consideration and decision of Parliament." Lord J. RUSSELL, while he admitted that there were points with respect to the appropriation of the tithes in Ireland on which he might differ from some of his friends, had not the slightest difficulty in declaring, that he and every Member of his Majesty's Government must oppose the proposed amendment. He trusted that that opposi tion would be sustained by the majority of the House, unless they were prepared to give up all rights of property, and allow the triumph of tho unjustifiable, illegal, and tumultuous system whiuli bad been pursued in Ireland, and which was calculated to lead to an end that would be as universally calamitous as the means used to effect it were violent and unholy.—(Hear, bear.) Sir R. INGLIS would not trouble the House with his sentiments in detail on the present occa,aion, as it was obvious that there would be various other occasions on which the question might be more advantageously dis cussed. lie merely rose to state, that, in giving his con srpt *ci the present proposition of his Right Hon. Friend, lie was by no means to be considered as bound to approve of all the arrangements to which his Right Hon. Friend had adverted. This reservation on his own part was the more necessary, as, on his Right lion. Vrieud's own showing, it was his intention to reduce the income of every incumbent in Leland from 50 t o 34 per cent: — Mr. BARRON, as we understood the Hon. Member, strongly opposed the destruction of tithes, which were puhlic property, and rsh'el, 11.;t to he destroyed, but properly applied. It might h.• as well proposed to de prive him of his estate or property. Those who com plained of the way in which tithes were misapplied in Ireland never had such it wish. Their opinion was that too great a portion of the tithes was alienated from the pros, and therefore a misappropriation. What they wanted way a revision of the system. They did not want a public robbery. Far from them was any such inten tion. They only claimed for the poor the share to which they were entitled. They only claimed the execution of tl. parposrs for which tithes were given in trust to the C holic Church in Ireland, in 1172, by Henry 11., who first introduced them in Ireland with the aid of the Bri tish army. The present opposition to tithes in Ireland t.vitald continue to exist until their misappropriation had sea corrected. Than the people of Ireland would pay ti:oar cheerfully. Till then Parliament might change the ii:.tne of the thin; as they chose, but the hostility to it would remain, and all attempts to conciliate it would be labour in vain. Whenever the Bill should come before th•e House, he should express his sentiments upon it more fully. At present he would merely state that he objected r o it principally because it did not relieve the peasantry of Ireland. Another objection which he entertained towards it was, that it placed a tax which ought to rest on the shoulders of one set of men on the shoulders of another set of men, and gave to the landlords benefits to which they were not entitleri. Mr. CHRISTMAS was opposed to the appropriation of any property that he considered national to any parti ealar purpose. The Hon. and Learned Member for Dub lin talked of knocking off two-thirds of the tithes. It he could succeed in doing so, that would not end the diffi culty; for one-third would still rem lin, and would the i'lle farmers pay that ? In Ireland they must always have a panac,'a fur every evil. The Hon. and Learned Member for Dubli❑ had persuaded the people of Ireland that the abolition of tithes would be this panacea. But suppose it should riot prove so. Suppose the tide of prospetity should not flow so rapidly into the country ftnin the abo lition of tithes as the Hon. and Learned Member pre dicted. What then ? The people of Ireland might, per haps, begin to think that the Hon. and Learned Gentle man was not so infallible as they supposed. They would h tve nothing to fall back upon. As an honest man, he c',uld not appropriate any property which he considered national to an individual interest. Whatever became of the tithes, however, they must be removed from the shoulders of the occupying tenant, leaving open any ques tion respecting their application. Mr. LALOR observed, that a wise legislature in enacting a law would endeavour to take care that it should be one likely to meet the concurrence of those on whom it was intended to operate. With respect to tithes, the:‘, would never be paid again in Ireland except by compul. lion; and the present proposition would be as little re spected as any former Acts on the subject.—[The noise from conversation in the House was so great during this and several of the preceding speeches, that we were unable to hear the Hon. Member, except occasionally, and then very imperfectly.] He implored the House to pause before they threw the landlords of Ireland into the situa tion of becoming compulsory collectors of tithes from the rople. Mr. T. FITZGERALD was understood to say that he vas not at all satisfied with the measure proposed by his Majesty's Government. Mr. WALKER, who spoke from under the gallery, was understood to contend that the proposition of the Right, lion. Secretary for Ireland contained all the objections which attached to the compulsory system. His Majesty, in his most gracious speech from the throne, had told them that in the settlement of this question they should study the interest of all his subjects; whereas Ministers had, .ably and entirely studied the interest of the Church.-- (Hear, and question.) The House then divided, when there appeared— For the original resolution For Mr. Grattan's amendment Majority in favour of Ministers During our absence from the gallery the House again divided on an amendment moved by Mr. O'DWYER, re, introduce after the word "many," in the original resolution, the following words:—" Due regard being had to the protection of existing interests, a competent provision shall be made for the support of the Protestant clergymen proportioned to the amount of the Protestant population of Ireland, and that the surplus ari,ing therefrom shall he applied to such purposes as Pa-liament shall deem fit." For the original resolution l9O For Mr. O'Dwyer's amendment 66 Majority for Ministers Resolution passed. On our return to the gallery, we found Mr, O'CON NELL on his legs, asking leave of the Hot's* to bring in " Bill to amend the law relative to distress for rent in Ireland." The Hon. and Learned Gtntletnin was for a time totally inaudible from the noise occasioned by the rush of strangers into the gallery. W. could only catch a word in regard to what he termed his second ainendinent. By the law of distress in Ireland, when a seizure was made, the cattle were not sold till the fifteenth day--seven days being allowed for valuation, and seven days for the tenant to obtai❑ relief if possible. The impounders often took security for tl,e cattle ; but this was as an act of grace and favour, and the consequence was, that the cattle were not deteriorated in value, as they otherwise would be if kept in oofluement. His object was (as we understood) to make that which was an act of grace anti favour, one of legs/. compulsion. After a few words from Mr. LITTLETON, in apprvval of the Bill, leave was given. THE CURRENCY. Mr. T. ATTWOOD postponed his resolution on. the subject of one pound notes to a future day. NORTH AMERICAN POST OFFICES. Mr. Secretary STANLEY briefly asked leave to bring in a Bill to enable the Legislatures of his Majesty's Colo nies in North America to alter and amend the laws relat ing to their internal postage. By an Act of George the surplus revenue derived from the postage of letters in those colonies was paid over to this country. The object of the present Bill was simply to empower the Colonial_ Legislature to regulate their own internal posttges, and to repeal the present Act ; so that portages should not br higher than in the United States, and should be mulct': lower than they now were. The accounts were to be laid annually before the different Legislatures, and the surplus applied as they might thing fit. . . - Mr. Holes and Mr. 110E1ILTCIC esressed high uti3fix lion at the proposed measure, and :eave was given to bring in the Bill. Mr. HUME postponed his motion fo.; tNe reduction of the salaries of the Puisne Judges in the Courts of Exche— quer, King's Bench, and Coratu,,n Pleas. Mr. P. THOMSON brought in a Bill to regc,lare the measurement of tonnage of merchant shipping, and went on to undo the advantages likely to result c.rom the con.. tomplated changes. YOUNG was happy to fircsi the subject taken up by the Right Hon. Gentleman. He cordially concurred. in his views, and anticipated the full measure of tlitmse benefits which he had glanced at. Critical accuracy was, however, not necessary. Simplicity was the grand iEeature• to which their attention should he directed. Mr. HUME likewise expressed his gratifleotion at I?.e , introduction of the Bill ; and trusted, by its operations, our vessels would cease to be the tubs they were at present. He hoped the Bill would be referred to a Committee up. stairs. Mr. ROBINSON thought the Hon. Member fur Mid dlesex did not pi:riectiy understand the nature ef, the 8211. There 71 Wi nothing in it to compel persons as. 'Jo the moth, in which they should proceed in their work. The Bid was merely to regulate the measurement of tonnage of merchant shipping. While he was on his leg., he was desirous tT, ask the Right Hon. Gentleman whether the Bill was intended to take within its provisions vessels at present not registered, Of whether it would have 1114 same effect in the.- colonies as at home ? Mr. P. THOMSON said it would be perfectly de-re, tionary on the part of :he owners of such v esse l s to act as theyi satlo e t fit. With might abide by t h e o ld In i stry, they respect to th e co l on i es, i f the .: was found benefici a l a t h ome, i t should be ex tended to our foreign possessio ns . I n regard to a Committee, ie p tr l iio a a se g tl ll . the Commission which had sat had sought every source of information that could remotely aid it in its labours; arid he hoped sufficient data were had on which to frame a full, and, he trusted, a satisfactory measure.—Bil% brought ins VEES TO CLERKS OF THE PEACE. On the motion of Mr. Hodges a Select Committee on to clerks of the peace was appointed, consisting of the 1 -, llowing Members : Hodges, T. L. Somerset, Lord G, Graham, SirJ. R. G. Palmer, R. l'eel, Sir R. Denison, .3, Althorp, Viscount Cartwright, W. R. Lowther, Viscount Dawson, E. Fremantle, sir T. Phillipps, M. Duncombe, W. Slaney, R. A. Ktaa.clibull, Sir E. Wilmot, Sir E. Clive, R. H Tancred, li. W. Pendarves ' E. W. Sanford, E. A. Littleton, E. J. Mosley, Sir 0, Strickland, G. Blantire, W. Pease, Joseph Price, Sir It. Gisborne, T. Baring, A. •itanley, F., 1. Evans, W. Aglionhy, H. A. 'Wilbraham G. Ebrington,lona kVrottesley, 6ir J. 11ildtnay, P. ! . .stcourt, T.G.B F::jstnor, Viscount Lefevie, C, S. Inglis, `ls HMI. l'Arter, J. J 3. The other order; livuse adjourn, eS the day were ti:, 1 At A quarter to at ,en disposed of, th.d Nota. ____ "~` I