The Sun. — London, England, 1834-04-15 00:00:00

us seine well-inerited rebukes. The4w r aits were gene rally partial representations ui life ; • erated portrai tures of Marchionessese k ind a likeness o • • Lord Monteoffee-House, .m Irish Peer, Wlio died of love—w th drink last year. 7 . 'f he monopoly, too, was manifest, and could not be too much complained against, it should be reformed altogether. Places might be given, subject to license, if the artists desired. Two considerations should ever weigh with them, first, the promotion of art, and, secondly, its general dif fusion among other people. The Gallery ought to be divided into three divisions—one part should be appropriated to portraits, another to historical subjects, and a third to landscape drawings. The sculpture, too, ought not to be placed en masse. The arrangement ought to be considered according to the estimation and extent of the figures. The charge of one shilling at the doors was injudicious, and most illiberal, as there was no reason for it ; and one of the first steps which the Government should take ought to be to throw the National Gallery open to the people. No one could traverse Paris without being struck with the differ ence there exhibited between its public institutions, and those of London. Added to which, in the lowest coffee houses classical imitations were seen, which showed how refined were the minds of the people. And to what was that correctness to be attributed? Principally, he would say, to the facilities every where given to the people to cultivate their genius and. improve their taste. Mr. SINCLAIR defended the ()icier of the portraits in Somerset-house. He could assure the hon. member for Liverpool that he had seen some beautiful women there (Laughter) ; and as to historical subjects, he would much rather see a pictorial representation of he Duke of Wellington, than that of some character of anti quity of whom they knew but little and respected less. Sir R. INGLIS would support the estimate. Mr. HOBSON defended the Royal Academy. The demand of a shilling was for the purpose of forwarding the interests of the arts ; sending students abroad to study ; in fact, doing what the nation otherwise would be compelled to do. Mr. ROEBUCK—The rooms belong to the public, and the motile should not be charged for visiting their own freehold. Mr. S. RICE—The Royal Academy had effected much ; they had raised the character of the country. The schools of Reynolds and Opie would ever be gratefully remem bered. The sum of one shilling taken at the doors was given for the most generous of purposes. It was the onl, revenue of the Academy, and who could stand up and say it was misapplied ? The servants had likewise to be paid, and the people themselves did not object to the demand. Mr. C. WYNN spoke in favour of the estimate. The hon. member for Bath was in error. The rooms originally belonged to the . Crown, which presented them to the Royal Academy. Mr. WARBURTON thought that this was a fit time to inquire how the Royal Academy conducted itself, and he would be happy to support a motion for a committee to inquire into that subject. Mr. EWART thought that if the pictures were to be taken into the National Gallery, the exhibition ought to ba open to the nation. 3lr. ROEBUCK thought that the Academy ought to be a National not a Royal Institution. In its present state it was a mere vehicle for royal jobbing. An Hole. 31ettexa said that there was no institution more free of anything like jobbing than the Royal Academy. The vote was then agreed to. Mr. S. RICE then rose and said, that when the Esti mates were before the house last year, his noble friend the First Commissioner for Woods and Forests had pledged himself that something should be done in the course of this year for the restoration of Westminster Hall. Since then an estimate had been made of the expense which would be necessary for this object—the one by merely repairing the Hall, the other by lowering the present floor and re storing, the ancient Proportions of the building. If the first of these plans were adopted, the expense to the country would be 8,500/. ; if the other, the expense would be 17,0001. The general opinion was that the floor ought to be lowered, and in that opinion he concurred ; he would, therefore, propose that a sum not exceeding 17,000/. be granted. This sum would cover not only the expense of the restoration of the Hall, but of the alterations which were considered so desirable. Sir S. WHALLEY objected to the lowering of the floor of the Hall. With that exception he gave the vote his hearty concurrence. Mr. C. W. WYNN suggested that Palace-yard should also be lowered, which would obviate the awkwardness of entering the Hall down three or four steps. The vote was then agreed to. The following votes were then agreed to :- 67,000/ towards the expense of rebuilding houses which were destroyed during the riots. 44,5001. for salaries to the officers of the Houses o. Lords and Commons, and the pensions paid to retired officers. 25,000/. as the expenses of the House of Lords and the House of Commons. 41,000/. to make good the deficiency of the Fee Fund in the Department of his Majesty's Treasury. 10,5981. to make good the deficiency of the Fee Fund in the Department of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department. 13,3371. to make good the deficiency of the Fee Fund in the Department of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Foreign Department. 9,7371. to make good the deficiency of the Fee Fund in the Department of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies. 18,658/. to meet the expenses of his Majesty's Privy Council and of the Privy Council for Trade. 2,0001. for the Salary of the Lord Privy Seal. 7,3001. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Bills in the Department of his Majesty's Treasury. 5,6951. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Bills in the office of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Home Department. 39,0001. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Bills in the office of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Foreign Department. 7,1001. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Bills in the office of his Majesty's Secretary of State for the Colonies. 2,233/. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Fees in the office of the Privy Council and the De partment of the Privy Council for Trade. 3,7001. to meet the contingent expenses and Messen gers' Bills in hig Majesty's Treasury and the Court of Exchequer. Mr SPRING RICE then moved that a sum not ex ceeding 2,0061. be granted to his Majesty to pay salaries to Professors in the two Universities of Oxford and Cam bridge. Mr. ROEBUCK protested most strenuously against pay ing the funds of the nation to what was called the two national universities, although they excluded two-thirds of the nation from all participation in the benefits which they dispensed. Mr. SPRING RICE would be as happy as any man to co-operate in taking means to relieve dissenters from the disabilities under which they at present laboured, but he should be sorry if the existence of those disabilities were made a ground for refusing this grant. He believed that the fact of this grant being made by the nation would be one of the strongest arguments in favour of a repeal of the grievances under which the Dissenters laboured in entering the universities.. Mr. ROEBUCK should like to see the universities opened first, and then he would be willing to grant money to them ; but as long as the people were excluded, it was bad to vote the money of the people to the support of the universities. He would not divide the house on the sub ject at present, but if such a grant were proposed on any future occasion, he would certainly do so. 31r. G. F. YOUNG was understood to give his sup port to the grant. Mr. EWART said, that if the universities of Oxford and Cambridge refused to admit dissenters, the funds ought to be taken from them and given to the University of London or some other seminary where persons of every denomination ;fere admitted. C o l o nel EVANS asked the noble lord opposite if it were the intention of Government to grant a charter to the L;..adon University ? L0i.7 1 ALTHORP was understood to say that he could no t answ ,;.« the question, as it must, in a great measure, depend on a vCte of the house itself. 12,3001. was thee granted to pay the salaries of the corn inissioners of the Insolvent Debtors' Court. On the motion that 1,568/. be granted to pay the salaries officers in the OW for the registration of aliens, Mr, ROEBUCK objected to the vote. He thought that the office should be entirely dons away with, for he could see no advantage of which it was to the country. Now that we were in a state of peace with the whole world, :el ..re could be no reason why they should not be as free to _enter and travel through this country as they were in ;America., where a foreigne r could travel from one end of the coi4.try to another, without interruption, His feeling upon this itibjeet was so strong, that he was determined to divide the house upon it. Colonel E VANS was glad to hear that his hon. friend was determined to divide the house on this question. Pass ports and restrictions were a part of the system of the Holy Alliance, and they ought to be done away with. Mr. SPRING RICE defended the vote, Mr. WARBURTON said, that if any gentleman would move for a select committee to inquire into the purposes for which the alien office was appointed, it would be found to have proved entirely useless. Mr. ROEBUCK would divide the house on the grant, Strangers were then ordered to withdraw, but no divi sion took place.—Vote agreed to. Mr. S. RICE moved that a sum not exceeding 15,563/. be granted to defray the charge of the Penitentiary of Millbank. Mr. ROEBUCK objected to the grant. 31illbank had proved to be rather a prison than a penitentiary. Lord HOWICK made an observation or two, which were inaudible in the gallery. Sir T. FREMANTLE defended the establishment. It had been productive of great benefit to many of its in mates. More than one-third, and sometimes as many as one-half of those admitted into it, were, by the excellence ' of its rfiscipline, reformed characters before leaving it. J' This could not be said of other prisons in any part of the r'f . 091113 try. wqul4 putuitgin, indeed, that not Que. • c 3Usis, twentieth of that number weraxeformed by the disciplio? practised in any one of the prisonin, After a few words fir,ornlr. Roebuck, Lord Howick, Mr. Hawes, and Mr. RthMh, the vote was agreed to. 5801. were then voted to make good flip deficiency in the office of the registration of the names of ettlonial slaves. 4,3661. were voted to defray the expense of the State Paper-office, the Record-office of the Tower, and of the Chapter house, Westminster. The sum of 8001. was granted to the commissioners ap pointed to inquire into the state of the courts of law. Mr. SPRING RICE moved that the sum of 16,8001. be granted to meet the salaries and incidental expenses of the commissioners appointed to correspond with other powers, with a view to the putting an end to the traffic in slaves. Mr. G. F. YOUNG expressed a hope that the com missioners would be more energetic in their endeavours to put an end to the abominable traffic in question. Hitherto their labours had been productive of no beneficial result. he vote was then agreed to. The next vote moved for was the sum of 95,486/. for the expenses of the consular department. - Mr. HUTT considered this vote monstrously extrava gant, and that many of the items were wholly superfluous. • He therefore moved as an amendment, that the vote should , be reduced by 12,8001. Major BEAUCLERK seconded the amendment. I Mr. GROTE supported the amendment, looking upon :i the amount asked for as most exorbitant. The hon. mem er also strongly commented upon the monstrous discre pancy in the amounts of salaries, for it appeared that those :consuls who did least were paid most. Our consuls in America, who probably had twice as much to do as other 'consuls, were not paid half the amount received by other ; consuls, who did little or nothing. For instance, the con at New York, Baltimore, Philadelphia, and several : other places where the amount of business was very ardu ous, were only paid 500/. a year; while the consul at `Lima, where there was next to nothing to do, received 2,000/. a year for himself, and 700/. for an assistant consul. Our consul at Lisbon had but 600/. a year, at Genoa but 400/. ; at Havre the consul was equally ill paid, while at other places in Europe there were consuls at treble the salaries, whose posts were mere sinecures. As it appeared, however, that for the lesser sums Government was able to procure the services of efficient consuls, he (Mr. Grote) saw no reason why any larger sums should be paid. Mr. ROEBUCK complained of the total absence of any principle that there appeared to be by which the amounts l of the salaries given to consuls were regulated. He con trasted the expenses of our consulate department at Egypt, with that at the United States, and contended that they were out of all proportion. He referred also to Hamburg and Amsterdam, and asked why the expenses should be so much greater at the former than at the latter place, the dif ference not being capable of justification by a reference to our commercial relations. The existing arrangements were full of such inconsistencies, and appeared to him to be quite ridiculous. _ . . Colonel EVANS was also of opinion that the salaries to consuls ought to be regulated to a certain extent by the amount of the commerce. Our commerce with Spain was not in a very flourishing state, and yet there was a long list of appointments for that country. The expenses for the Levant amounted to not less than 10,000/. ' • for Greece they were 2,000/. ; they were above 2,0001. for Egypt ; for Syria the sum was about the same ; and for Constanti nople it was still more. 11r. S. RICE said that the hon. member for the city of London (Mr. Grote) had referred to the difference that was to be found in the amounts paid to our consuls, and had particularly referred to Alexandria ; but he (Mr. S. Rice) was quite sure that any attempt to reduce these al lowances to a fixed scale would fail. There were some special circumstances connected with Egypt, to which he begged to call the attention of the house. As regarded Alexandria, we had no minister, no diplomatic agent there of any kind, and it consequently devolved on the consul to act in the capacity of diplomatic agent, in addition to the discharge of his ordinary duties. To estimate the labour of the consul, then, by comparing the trade of Alex andria and this country with our trade with any other port, was to take a very erroneous view of the matter. He contended that we must adapt our establishments in other countries to the nature of our connexion with those coun tries. In investigating the anomalies complained of, it would be found that there were Other anomalies which were•a sufficient explanation of them. If we sent persons to distant countries, must we not pay them according. to any peculiarity in the connexion, according to the badness of the climate, or according to the rate of living? At Hamburg we had no diplomatic representative, which would account for the difference observed in the amount of pay to Our consul there, as compared with the amount paid to our consul at Amsterdam. _ . . Mr. G. YOUNG was glad to see the right hon. the First Lord of the Admiralty (Sir J. Graham) taking his seat, because he (Mr. Young) wished to call the attention of the government, of which the right hon. gentleman was a member, to the fact, that in 1830, the right hon. gen tleman, in a motion which he then made, did attempt to lay down some general principle, to the effect that the salaries of British consuls should not exceed the sum of 1,0001. a year, except in the cases of such as were sent to South America, in favour of whom a difference was to be made in consideration of the greater cost of living in that country. The explanation given by the right hon. gentle man who spoke last, would not be found satisfactory. In Constantinople we had an ambassador ; yet we had there a consul in the receipt of 1,6001. a year, and a vice-consul to whom was allowed 7001. a year. In his opinion the whole matter ought to be referred to a committee. Mr. EWART said, that the salaries to the consuls ought to have proportion to the amount of British shipping frequenting the port. He approved of the suggestion of the hon. member to appoint a committee, and would sup port a motion to that effect if one were made. Sir H. WILLOUGHBY supported the amendment. Lord PALMERSTON begged to remind the house, that since he came into office he had reduced the expenses of this branch of the public service by the sum of 29,0001. which was very near one-third of the whole amount. He thought that this fact would be taken to be satisfactory evidence of his disposition to make every possible reduc tion. He had reduced the pay of all the Consuls-General, excepting only those whom he considered to have a claim on account of the political duties that from their peculiar situation they were called on to perform. The salary of every consul he had caused to be reduced ; indeed, he did not think that there was one appointment connected with the consulate department in the salary of which he had not made some reduction or other. The consequence was, that from each of these individuals he received a letter, con taining very urgent remonstrances and representations, de claring that if their incomes were reduced, they would be unable to live in the style which was becoming their of ficial stations. He had a circular answer to these commu nications prepared, wherein, after expressing his extreme regret on account of the inconveniences the new ar rangement would create, he asserted the impossibility of its undergoing any revision. Thus this reduction was ef fected ; and amounting, as he had said it did, to one-third, he thought it no inconsiderable reduction to be made at one blow. It had been recommended that the salaries should be regulated by an uniform principle, and it had been remarked that they ought to tally with the amount of British tonnage entering the port. Now, the amount of the tonnage would be a very inadequate measure of the labour of the consul, even with respect to the ships that I entered. Some allowance must be made for the port duties. Then, the consul must take care that Bri tish subjects suffered no injury from the misapplication of the law ; he had to listen to the complaints of British sub jects, and afford them redress, or obtain it for them. With respect to the South American States in particular, which were new states forming their new political relations, at tention to commerce did not include all the heavy functions that the consuls had to perform ; there derolved on them other laborious duties, amongst which he might mention the transmitting to his (Lord Palmerston's) office details connected with the inquiries of committees of that house, also numerous statistical returns—returns relating to com merce, grain, and the precious metals. There was, be sides, to be considered the expense of collecting the details which were required. In many of these places, then, the con suls were not to be viewed as commercial agents only • they were also political agents, and that would account for the large salaries given to the consuls-general, as well as to many of the consuls. When he examined this branch of the service with a view to reduction, he looked very nar- rowly into all the cases, and endeavOured to apportion the salaries according to the expenses that roust be incurred for hospitality and on other accounts, and giving due con sideration also to the duties of a political description that the party would be called on to discharge. He should not omit to state that the emoluments of consuls depended in part on fees. The house ought to look, therefore, not only at the salary, but also to the amount of fees re ceived on an average of years.—(Hear, hear.) Re ference had been made to a motion formerly introduced by his right hon. friend ( Sir J. Graham) and it was in tended to press on the Government that it was bound by the terms of that motion, which was to reduce the salaries of consuls to 1,000/. a year ; but the fact was, that there were now only three cases in Europe in which the pay was above 1,000/. Hamburg exhibited one of these excepted cases ; our representative there, however, though desig nated under the modest title of Consul-General, was in effect our minister, and had to support all the expenses that were known to be the necessary consequence of indi viduals occupying such important official stations. The noble lord next defended, the high salary given to the con sul at Alexandria, which= was less, he said, than the salary that was given to Mr. Salt, who held the office before its present possessor. Any further reduction would render the pay inadequate to the expenses of the situation. As regarded South America, hon. members should always keep in view that the value of money was less in a coun try where the precious metals were produced, and that in consequence our consuls residing there should be propor tionately provided for. To persons sent out from Europe, and who had been accustomed to live in European style, European articles were necessary ; and in those remote re gions such articles were of course expensive. Taking these matters into consideration, hon. members must come to the conclusion that the salaries in South America, so far from being inordinate, were infinitely lower than the other. Still on every occasion where vacancies occurred, and circumstances permitted it, it was desirable that ail \ \ S % %. economical system should be pursued ; but be contended I that tonnage would not form a scale by which to estimate n the amqunt of sal 'e i s. Circuinktances so varied with re gard to The several Nulates, thb k no rule-of-three mode of calculation could e applied' to them, and to regulate them by the tonnage would confine them to too strict and imperfect a standard. Mr. PEASE contended that reduction of salaries could be best effected in those places where there was most ship ping, inasmuch as in such places the fees and other inci dental emoluments amounted to a greater sum, to say no thing of the advantages which such situations held out to commercial men. Whatever was attempted to be done, one great object to be kept in view was the fitness of the person for the appointment, so as that he may be a means of extending the character and the influence of the country which sent him out. i Mr. CLAY observed, that though the speech of the noble lord went to prove that no general rule could apply in these cases, it at the same time failed to justify the ano malies which had been pointed out as existing in the pre sent practice. He (Mr. Clay) would mention one in par ticular. In some places the consul had a vice-consul ; in others there was no vice-consul, as, for instance, at Lisbon. But without going into these matters, it appeared even by the speech of the noble lord himself that there was a ne cessity for submitting these matters to a committee up stairs, and that alone would form a ground why the house should not agree to this vote until further information on the subject was afforded. Mr. HUTT had, at an early period of the session, pro posed a committee to inquire into the consular establish ments. The anomalies which existed in them had been fully made out. Though strongly prompted to it by his inclinations, he should not follow the noble lord through his observations on the comparative value of metals in this and in other countries, but he was sure the speech of the noble lord had failed of convincing the house. The ano malies in the system were undeniable, and it presented in its very front an aspect of Toryism anisinecurism. Lord PALMERSTON did not pretend to understand what the hon. member meant by Toryism, but he did understand what was meant by sinecurism, and he there fore felt it his duty to assert that the consulate office was no sinecure. They had heavy and responsible duties to perform, and they executed them sedulously, laboriously, and constantly. They were always on the spot to attend to these duties, or if unavoidably absent, they had always persons engaged to fill their places, and in addition to this, when absent their salaries were cut off. It was not fair, thus loosely and inconsiderately to throw out unfounded • charges against deserving individuals, nor could he (Lord Palmerston) sit silently by whilst worthy . and meritorious public servants were stigmatized as sinecurists. To a question from Colonel EVANS, Lord PALMERSTON replied, that it was the duty of the vice-consul to go on board ships, and do other extra ordinary duties. The vote was then agreed to. On the question that 5,7091. be granted for defraying the expenses of the inspectors and superintendents of factories. . . .. . Mr. — BROTHERTON said, that, notwithstanding the act of Parliament, the children were still worked for twelve hours, Good Frilay not excepted. Mr. SPRING RICE replied that it would be hazard ous to bring the bill into full and immediate operation. It would be far preferable to feel the way, and proceed by degrees to adopt the recommendation of the committee. No scale could be laid down by which to regulate the al lowances for travelling expenses in these cases, and it was, therefore, far better, instead of deducting them out of any particular fund, to bring them under the consideration of the house by an annual vote, and thereby have an oppor tunity of ascertaining that the duty had been performed. Vote agreed to. - The following Estimates then passed without opposi , tion 58,8581. for Retired Allowances to Public Officers. 1,8231. to defray the expenses of the Vaccine Establish. ment. _ . 3,000 1. in support of the Refuge for the Destitute. 3,1371. ss. 2d. for confining and detaining Criminal Lunatics. 4,9901. to defray the usual allowance to all Protestant Dissenting Ministers and French Refugee Ministers and Laity. On the question that 37,6001., be granted for Foreign and Secret Service, Colonel EVANS wished to postpone the question, as there was no house; but after a few words from Mr. SPRING RICE, the vote was agreed to. Lord ALTHORP said he was anxious to bring on the House Tax Repeal Bill, but he trusted the hon. member would allow him to take his own time. The resolution was then agreed to. The sum of 56,0001. was then granted to defray the ex pense of printing Acts of Parliament, Bills, and Parlia mentary Papers. A sum not exceeding 131,9181. was granted for defray ing expenses of binding and stationery for the public de partments in England, Scotland, and the Colonies. A sum not exceeding 10,0001. was granted to defray the expenses of the Mint and Coinage of Gold. A sum not exceeding 8,0001. was granted to defray the expenses of prosecution of offences against the laws re lating to coin. The committee then granted a sum not exceeding 11,0001. to defray the expenses of law charges. Also a suns not exceeding 73,6621. to defray the charges and expenses of clothing convicts, &c., at home and abroad. Mr. PEASE inquired whether the hulk system was to be continued ? . ' • Mr: S. RICE said that it was unproductive, and was in a course of reduction. . Mr. PEASE thought no system could be worse. After a few words from 3lr. G. F. YOUNG, Lord HOWICK said the hulk system would be reduced as speedily as possible. Many convicts were still in the hulks, and the system could not, therefore, be at once abo lished. His Majesty's Ministers were influenced in this respect, not merely by motives of economy. The committee then voted the sum of 20,0001. to defray the expenses for the support of captured negroes and libe rated Africans under the Acts for the Suppression of the Slave Trade. _ _ _ . Also a sum exceeding 130,000/. to defray the charges of maintaining convicts at New South Wales and Van Die men's Land. On the motion for granting a sum not exceeding 10,000/. to defray the expenses incurred under the direction and ma nagement of the Commissioners of Records in the year ending 31st of March, 1835, Mr. GROTE remarked on the plurality of offices held by Sir Francis Palsgrave, who was not only one of the com missioners of records, but keeper of the Chapter House, and one of the municipal commissioners. Mr. SPRING RICE observed, that the situations were compatible with each other, and that as the salary of one of them merged in the others, the public gained by the ar rangement. After some further conversation on the subject, in which Mr. Young, Mr. Grote, Mr. S. Rice, &c., participated, the vote was agreed to. Grants were also agreed to of 2,500/. to pay the annual compensation awarded to Sir Abraham Bradley King, late King's Stationer in Ireland, for losses sustained by him by reason of the revocation of his patent ; and of 5,000/. to defray the expense of paying the fees due and payable to the officers of Parliament on all bills for continuing or amending any acts for making or maintaining, keeping in repair, or improving turnpike roads. Mr. SPRING RICE next moved a grant of 20,000/. to enable his Majesty to issue money for the erection of school-houses, in aid of private subscriptions for that pur pose, for the education of the children of the poorer classes in England in the year ending March 31, 1835. (Hear. ) Colonel Beauclerk, Lord Morpeth, and several other hon. members spoke in warm terms of the benefits likely to result from such an application of the public money. Mr. EWART suggested the establishment of Normal schools. Sir SAMUEL WHALLEY asked when the third re port of the Commissioners of National Education would be presented ? In his opinion it would not be desirable to take any step on the subject until that report should be before the house. Mr. SPRING RICE expressed his inability to answer the question of the hon. member for Marylebone ; but did not think that the report could interfere with general legislation on the subject. He was glad to find so general an approbation of the proposed grant. The principle on which his Majesty's government had proceeded, with re spect to that of the last year, was to advance money only when still larger sums were raised by private subscription. The result was, that for the 20,0001. of public expenditure, there had been an increased private expenditure of 48,1111., and_that no fewer than 30,366 children of the poorer classes had been put in a course of education in consequence. --( Hear. ) Mr. MURRAY was desirous that the benefits of the grant should be extended to Scotland. Mr. SPRING RICE observed, that that had not been done in the last year, because the step was one more or less of experiment. The subject now, however, had certainly assumed a different character, for the experiment had been tried, had been successful and hadreceived the approbation of the house. Mr. YOUNG also expressed his hope that the benefits of the measure would be extended to Scotland. Mr. GROTE thought that much more might be done and ought to be done on the subject. Mr. SPRING RICE observed, that it was not impro bable his noble friend might, before the end of the session, authorise him to make a proposition for establishing Nor mal schools, as had been suggested by the hon. member for Liverpool. Mr. JOHNSTON urged the extension of the proposi tion to Scotland. Lord ALTHORP observed that the grant of last year had been confined to England, and not extended to Scot land, because England had no provision whatever on the subject, while Scotland had. He had no difficulty, how ever, in stating, that at a future period he would call the attention of the house to the question of the expediency of extending this grant. (Hear.) The motion was then agreed to. Mr. SPRING RICE said that, at that late hour of the night, he would not proceed ail further with his miseel laneous estimates, but would only propose a grant of 130,000/. for civil contingencies. The grant was agreed to. The house resumed, and the report was ordered to be re ceived to-morrow. BRIBERY AT ELECTIONS BILL. The report of the Bribery at Elections Bill having been brought up, the bill was re-committed, and several amend ments were introduced. The report was then received, and ordered to be taken into further consideration on Wed nesday next, and the bill, as amended, was ordered to be printed. HOUSE TAX REPEAL BILL. On the motion of LORD JOHN RUSSELL the se cond reading of the House Tax Repeal Bill was postponed to Wednesday. The other orders of the day were then disposed of, and at a quarter past twelve o'clock this morning the house ad journed. PRICES OF STOCKS THIS HAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Bank Stock 214 13 New 5 per Cent - 3 per Cent. Red 89% 9 ,4 India Stock 3 per Cent. Cons. 90%N% Ditto Bonds . 29 30 pm. 3L per Cent. 9 7 14 South Sea Stock ... Ditto Red 97% 1 4 Old Annuities - New 334 'per Cent 98%1 New Ditto ...-- 3 per Cent. Ann. 1726 .... - 3 per Cent. Ann. 1751 - 4 per Cent. 1826 102% % Ex. Bills, £l,OOO 52 51 pm. Bank Long Ann. to expire Ditto .... .. WO 52 51 pm. Jan. 5, 1860 l7 Ditto Small Oct.lo, 1859 Ditto Commercial pm. Jan. 5, 1860 l7 3-16 Ditto Advertised - pm. Jan, 5, 1880 - Bank for Account - Aprils, 1880 - India for Account ... ...... - Jan. 5, 1870 - Cons. for Account PRICES OP FOREIGN FUNDS THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Austrian Bonds ..... lO2 i Per avian Bonds on% Belgian Bonds fC 99 Ditto Account 214 Ditto Account 1 4 99 Portuguese Bonds 70% 1% Brazilian Bonds 71% , Ditto Account 71% Ditto Account ' 71% 1 Ditto New Bonds ...70% 1% Buenos Ayres Bonds 25% I Ditto Acc0nnt......70% 14 N Ditto Account 26 IPrussian Bonds IO3 3 Chilian Bonds ..-.... ......... 4 I Ditto Bonds, 1822 lOl Ditto Account 26 t Russian - Bonds, 1822 104% Columbian Bonds . Ditto Account 23 i Ditto 111 Ditto Bonds, 1824 24 "'; !„„; panish Bonds, 18:11 '32% % Ditto Account 25% f,', s Ditto Ace. Danish Bon • 4' Ditto Bonds 1823 Ditto Acccutit 74 Ditto Account 3O Greek 80nd5...-. — French Rentes, sp. c. —f —c. Ditto Bonds, !825 - Exchange...... —f —c. Ditto Account —3 per cent .—f —c. Mexican Bonds, 5 per cent. 31 y„, - Exchange —f —c. Ditto Account Dutch, .1 p. c. 50 49% 5 0 :tit. o, 6 per cent 39 , Ditto Account 5O Ditto Account 19% i Ditto, sp. c. 95% Neapolitan — Ditto Account 05% __ PRICES OF SHARES THIS DAY AT ONE O'CLOCK. Paid. Pet Share Alten Mining Company £9 11% Anglo Mex. Min. t;o. Liss. at 51. pm ) £lllO 9)4 133 lacing Mining Company ..£l5O 132% 130 Brazilian Mining Company ZS 15 Brazilian Imp. Min. Co. (iss. at 51 . pm.) £ 2O 59V, Ditto Macaubas Cocaes lB% Ditto St. John Del Rey • Cata Branca Mining Company ...... 311.‘ British Iron Mining coirmanv £so Columbit n Minim, Co. (iss. at 5/. pm.) 52 g 1014 English Mii.lng Company ....... ...... general Mining Association l2 Hibernian Mining Co. £lo Mexican Mining Co £4B deal del Monte Mining C 0.... (unreg.) mted Mex. Min. Co. (iss. at 21. pm.) 40 Ditto New Set ip 5 klliance Fire Insurance Comp 0 Protector Insurance Comp. Australian Co. Canada Company General Steam Navigation Co. l3 National Provincial Bank of England 15 Rio Doce -revincial Bank of Ireland 25 I 1 7 0 31% 494 15% 13% 2% 42% ------ trrived. Due. A ttived. Doe. O America 0 0 Hamburg .... ...... ... 0 0 0 Brazil O Buenos A y re. 0 0 Jamaica. 1 O Carthagena 0 0 Leeward Islands ... 1 1 Dublin 0 0 Lisbon 0 O Flanders 0 0 Malta 0 1 France 0 0 Sweden O 4 uernse &Jersey.. 0 1 Waterford' 0 HIGH WATER AT LONDON BRIDGE TO MORROW, Morning 47 minutes after 6 Evening...lBminutes after 7, iribr kf - 1, -4\,*14114 LONDON, TUESDAY EVENING, APRIL 15, 1834. Letters from Paris, dated yesterday, contain an official copy of a telegraphic despatch re ceived by the French Government on Sunday morning, from Lyons. TELEGRAPHIC DESPATCH. " LYONS, APRIL 12, ELEVEN AT NIGHT. " To the Minister of the Interior. " Lyons is free : the suburbs occupied by the insur gents are in our power. The communications are every where re-established. " The mails have gone off as usual. The anarchists are in the greatest disorder. " Certified true by the Administrator of the Tele graphic Lines. (Signed) " FOY. " Certified true by the Secretary-General of the Ministry of the Interior. ( Signed) "EDMUND BLANC." Paris was tranquil on Sunday. M. TRIERS had, it was said, left town for Lyons. Our city correspondent states that a tele graphic despatch has been received that disturbances have taken place at Paris ; the troops and national guards were call ed out ; attempts were made to erect barri cades, but at length tranquillity was restored• That some attempts would be made to excite disturbances at Paris is no more than was to be expected. TELEGRAPHIC DESPATCH. Paris, Monday Morning, 6 o'clock. Some: barricades were attempted to be erected here yesterday evening, but they were carried. Some Tirailleurs only remain this morning, which are insignificant. Half-past 1 o'clock in the morning. All is terminated—the factious are all in our power. . _ . Calais, half-past 4 o'clock, p.m., April 14. This afternoon we have again received a tele graphic despatch from Paris ; the following is a copy : Several barricades were attempted to be made in Paris last evening, but were all put down this morning. The few fighters were insignificant. The National Guard and the troops of the line acted in unison. Half-past seven this morning. All is finished; the factious are in our power. Lord DENMAN took his seat in the House of Lords last night. The Duke of WELLING TON presented petitions for the protection of the Established Church and the Agriculturists. The Earl of ROSEBERRY presented a petition from the presbyteries of Stirling and Lorn, and expressed his hope that the General Assembly which meets in May would so arrange matters as to give confidence to the people of Scotland. Earl GREY presented a petition for the Repeal of the Union, but did not agree in its prayer, as he considered that such a measure would be the ruin of both countries. The Noble Earl also presented petitions for the abolition of church patronage in Scotland, and from numerous bo dies of Dissenters for relief. In the House of Commons, Mr. O'CoN NELL gave notice of a motion for Friday, on the subject of the Dorchester Unionists, who have been transported. The Cambridge Peti tion was ordered to lie on the table, and the St. Pancras Bill was thrown out by a majority of six against the second reading. Mr. S. RICE brought forward the miscellaneous estimates, and observed, that comparing the estimates of this year with those of last year, the saving effected was 234,0001. ; comparing them with the estimates of 1832, the saving was 726,0001.; and comparing them with the estimates of 1831, the saving was 1,322,0001. The first resolution was for 22,500/. for the Revising Barristers. The next was fora very praiseworthy object-11,0001. for the purchase of two pic tures (Correggios), the public having given pictures for the proposed gallery to the value of 65,0001. Sir R. PEEL approved the grant.- 8,0001. was granted towards the new buildings at the British Museum, and several other sums for the Professors of the Universities, &c. &c. 4,990/. was voted for the usual allowances to poor Dissenting ministers in England, French Refugees, &c. The grants in which there seems the greatest hope of saving in future years (and the sooner the better), were for printing the votes of the House Reports, and Acts of Parliament, 56,0001. and 131,9181. stationery, binding, &c. Lord JOHN RUSSELL proposed the re committal of the Bribery Bill, which was carried ; and the second reading of the House Tax Bill was ordered for Wednesday. The unanimous opinion of the House last night on the vote of 20,0001. for erecting schools in England, and the general feeling in favour of establishing Normal schools through out the country, must be gratifying to every friend of the poor ; for it may be said with per fect truth, that there is no possible way in , which the Legislature could confer such bene fits on the lower classes as by extending the means of cheap education. Relief by poor rates, grants for carrying on public works, or for facilitating emigration, are of a temporary or partial nature ; but a legislative enactment, by which education may be obtained by the children of the poorest peasant, would confer a lasting and general benefit on all. The landed proprietors themselves would, in a short time, find that the expense incurred in teach ing the poor would be trebly repaid by the reduction of the poor rates. By in stilling into the mind of youth principles of morality, as well as in affording them lite rary instruction, their character'would be raised in their own estimation, and they would be de terred from forming improvident marriages, which, more than any other cause, contribute to their present wretched condition, and force them to remain slaves of the soil, or engage in unlawful pursuits. Indeed we can conceive no system of poor laws effectual which does not provide for the education of the poor. Work- houses, and central boards, and branch boards, with all the rest of the machinery proposed by the Poor Law Commissioners, may palliate but never can eradicate the evil. We earnestly call the attention of the Government to the subject, and confidently hope that it will not be for gotten by Lord ALTHORP when he introduces the question of the poor laws on Thursday. Indeed, we are not aware of any measure which could be so beneficial which could meet with such general approbation or confer such popularity on the Government. The LORD CHANCELLOR has done much to encourage general education, but his work is but half done, and if he were to stop short, with the means now in his power, and neglect the opportunity of introducing a general system of national schools, he would leave a sad stain on his bright name. There could be no difficulty in providing the means. If Scotlandand Switzer land, two. of the poorest countries in Europe, can provide for the instruction of the lower classes, what excuse is there for England, the richest country in the world, being so far behind them ? We formerly adverted to the sums that might be raised from funds left for purposes of educa tion, and to the surplus that would remain after the incomes of. the Bishops and higher clergy were pared down to a moderate size. These sums would not -be suffi cient, but the deficiency might be easily made up either by a general tax on property, or an annual grant from Parliament. It would be easy to show (and we shall do so on a future occasion) that the sum required would be so moderate, that no rational objection could be raised to it. Lord ALTHORP'S plan for a commutation of tithes will be brought on this evening, unless members who have the precedence should claim their right to have the motions of which they have given notice previously discussed, and the time and attention of the House should, in con sequence, be taken up so as to render it impos sible to bring it on. We trust they will give way, as the whole country is interested in this question, and most anxious to know what the noble lord's plan really is. A Cabinet Council was held to-day at hal past one, which is now sitting. The additional accounts from Lisbon, which rt ok ; ive e ninn n e c , ,e pe a l, o n a f are place, e ,Enao tf rn persons, e opinion of Douro the we have given at great length , are extremely satisfactory. At Viana 250 of the militia have joined the fe army l ng o i u f the rlhia o sp Q p province, well th informedstatea that the t oile whatof the de Minho is, by this time, in possession of the Queen's troops. We have always thought that Great Britain was bound to support the rightful Sovereign of Portugal, to which it is connected by ancient treaty as well as by interest ; and sure we are that the Government could not do any thing which the country would more approve than to afford such aid to Donna MARIA as would, at this moment, when the Spanish army is about to chastise MIGUEL'S insolence in harbouring Don CARLOS, enable the Regency to restore peace to Portugal, and, at the same time, to rid Spain of the disturber of her tran quillity. It is, probably, the fear that -the House of Commons might grudge the expense, which has hitherto prevented such a step. The House of Commons is, it is true, watchful of the public money, and so it ought to be, but the whole. country would be glad to have the affairs of Spain and Portugal set at rest, and they would feel it to be true economy to assist our old and faithful ally at a time when such assistance would enable her to secure the tranquillity, and consequent improvement, of the country. Both MIGUEL and CARLOS would soon take their departure if proof were afforded that the allies of Donna MARIA we re re solved to afford her their hearty an d effective assistance at the moment when it w ould be indeed of the utmost value. The Brussels papers of the 12th wave The received. They contain but little ne. greatest tranquillity prevails in that city and at Liege. On the 11th the electors of Brussels chose Count CORNET DE GREY to be me mber of the chamber of representatives, in the room of M. BASSE. On the sth April M. Du DURAND, editor of the Journal de Frankfort, wrote as follows : " Something is now passing in Belgium of su fficient importance to merit the attention of Europe. " The republic, driven from Paris by th e o res secutions of the press, and by the severe mess u that are going to be adopted against the assoc iation, removes its residence to Brussels. There no prosest cu - tion has been instituted against the press, no reric tion has been imposed on the right of associati on for political objects. Belgium is the true Elderado 0' republicans. " Till we shall see what time produces, an d for which we shall not have t o w ait long, let our rea ders remember that we here venture to write first. The republic at Brussels is still more menacing for the re" pose of Europe than the republic at Paris. - They write from Vienna, 4th April, as follows 6, We hear no more of the visit of the Emperor t° his Italian provinces. He will pass the summer , "! usual, at Schonbrun and Baden. This alteration t' not on account of his health, which is now a s gond could be wished."—Franitfort Paper, 10th Apri,l• t. VIENNA, APRIL 4.-5 per Cent. 97i ; 4 per 'den ' t 88i; Bank Shares, 1,2471-.—Ailgemeine Zeittiq' 9th April. We are very glad to find that the remarks we felt it our duty to make respecting the proposed meeting•of Dissenting delegates, have met with the approval of some of the most respectable Dissenters both in town and country. The • following letter has been addressed to us by a very intelligent and influential Dissenter, resid ing in one of the great manufacturing towns of the north of England. We have reason to be lieve that his opinions agree entirely with those of the most enlightened Dissenters in London , both lay and clerical, and we hope, therefor e : that the meeting will, at least, be deferre d until it is seen what the plan of 1 04 ALTHORP, relative to church rates, really is. A great number of Dissenters will be London during the coming month, at the anniversaries of their great institutions , and l d will be easy to call a meeting toward s the en of the month of May, if such a step should be deemed advisable, although our firm persuasion is, that the Government will do much more for s us their friends than for those who doubt and .; pect them. Whenever a meeting is held, if is intended to represent the Dissenters, it null not be that of one or two denominations, but ' 3 ," all ;—it must not be a close assembly of rich men, but a delegation from all the va rious dene' s minations, and their proceedings m ust be a other public meetings are. The d oors of Par owphe:hanadffeferteemfiollriosnusgogf men be and discuss ion liament are not closed ; why should concerns cussed, and se ttl e d com mittees, by small places t o which the great bod y of Dissenters can have no access ? arrang and ed di ia r. on Sthiße' TO THE EDITOR OF THE SUN. London, as recorded in The Sun of yesterday, 31 , 1 / they are so exactly in unison with my own, thaf,or —I subject a o s o f m a uch meetingpleasoefd dissentingw ith your d esieengtai nit:snit:lg cannot allow a post to depart without thanking' Y°' l .4 your judicious and seasonable remarks upon a subray of great importance, and I sincerely wish they t hey have the serious consideration of those to whom opinionap p lt l T m . a is y b o e f anypresumption consequence, on been bred a thorough going d rn s b s c e u n t t ta e os r, sl t u o hP h aP i seeenbte c of the originators, and one of the most liberal , 8 1 , king stant supporters f one of the best chapels in t f the dom, and am regarded as one of the most acti ve "tion , members of its large and respectable c ong a I that opinion may not be altogether worthie gs ' am perfectly sure that it is far from being a sif aeY one. Indeed, Sir, I am very much mistake° „,". 0 jo one of the dissenting congregations in the t ° " c i e le . ; which I reside, would sanction the sending °' 3 0 1 0 ' gate, though they are all anxious for the rer° ° 'd disabilities and grievances, as they have o i ' i r ce j be their memorials and petitions. They w° t ri,' oug lit lieve, regard it as a dangerous precedent to be carefully avoided.—l am, very respeetf°l your grateful and obedient servant, A DISSENTER, .0, of the Independent denommati April 12, 1834. Wo e t° P. S. It would be ostentatious to affix. 11 1 1 n oa r this letter, but I hand you, at foot, my address ford own satisfaction. One of the greatest impediments to 3 °fe d proved cultivation of the soil will be 0 9 : o, when the tithes arc commuted for a - ab ° redeemable by the land-owner, whilst the ae , lition ou o fb f ttehhel willing,pr C o h orNtv t o e il s l , al a pe i pa l d vl ye a e n siot improved pocket of the farmer, which he will be a ble '• r e o f ni no ea d t o more labourers, or to the adequate tricine''le:::tere; tion of those he usually employs. 111 4 , ti' c case the peasantry will derive a benefit , v t a to greatest possible service will be rendcr e valuable class of Englishmen by such regul3teirisl,i with respect to Ireland as shall induce t c b ro ort labourers to remain at home, instead ° I it i c lia ing in shoals to this country, and ulider;abotlr" the English labourers in the market f or f 1 3 3 0: To all these points the attention 0- a t los ment will be called immediately ; a t : eros cc a ti ; ) , who really wish well to the far the poor, will be careful not t° coss ioi,' s 3 time unnecessarily in mere wordy ai t s o „ce oc on immaterial points, but proceed Ai4 ,l)orr a o l f i tlitloenoebstliganatdiotnlisligtehnetymoawnenearlitkoetlitoc.t.'lAiebire o o 1 1. 1 1 stituents and the nation. This 0 7111 ,1 4-0 011 , t m h e e an a s g o ri f eu ch lt e u c r k a i l ng di t s l t t r e ic p t r s og: f ess th o e f fin' dc there, at least, the agitators NVOU - a t i" couragement if the people w ere n° . ti 5 graded and too often desperate c oil mmauteihu fa ii c t t p u r r o in sp g e t r o o : s ns a t s h a e d u ve n r i s o e ns ti a i r i : s 7b i ::: ll l:: • f provl 1 4 so in the agricultural districts, very easy to prevent mischief, litioi COW. 01 labourers have work, and their vt , o f their °` where it ti gradually improved by means fe013,, »~.~f In 01 I d er4 iteir, Th (vet o , hid , dAtt a t ll lll3 L or d cl no d vin e ' lonei term %ze e , Their At Lndc , 8415 ger i that a ,ktedio