The Sun. — London, England, 1825-07-02 00:00:00

PARLIAMENT. 4101iSE OF LORDS, PRIDA Y, JULY 1. Earl PITZWIILIAM presented a petition from Sheffield, apatite. the Combination Laws Bill. (iii the motion of the Earl of LIVERPOOL, the Combine-. t , ea Laws Bill was read a second time. The Noble Earl sug .gtted that the discussion on the Bill should take place on . 1 11 re a y,. on the question for going into the Comniittee.—To be ceremitted on Monday. On the roothin of Earl GROSVENOR, certain accounts re /et:ere to the office of the Clerk of the Pells were ordered to be laiti• before the House. The Earl of I;AODEItDALE presented a petition from an individual in Birmingham,, gninst the Combination Laws Bill. • He said, howererr, that he approved of the bill before the House, and did not agree with the petitioner in his objections. Earl BA 4IURST moved the second reading of the West ledia joint• Stock Company Bill. Earl GROSVENOR regarded this measure an one of consi derable. importance. Ile was convinced that the Noble Earl opposite was friendly to emancipation, but he was afraid . that the paean of this Bill would make the condition of the slaves worse than it now wes. However, as on the - other hand there wsre many good reasons to be urged in favour of the Bill, he should riot oppose it. He hoped that the subject of free labour we ukl be taken into consideration by Parliament at an early period of the next session. Earl BATH uRsT would not give the Bill his support if he supposed that it would create any obstacle to the improvement • of the situation of the slaves; but, on the contrary, he conceived tit would be highly useful. While the West India planters were in distress, their slaves must be in distress also; and as this Bill would alleviate the distress of the planters, it was to be presumed that it would also ameliorate the condition of the slaves. leerti CA LTHORPE said a few words, as we understood, in favour of the Bill. The 31arquis of LANS DOWN concurred with the Noble Earl opposite in expecting that the improvement of the situa tion of the West India planters would have a beneficial in fluence on the condition of their slaves. He supported the bill, 'because he had only a choice of evils ; but thought that its ope ratioa would require the vigilant attention of . (iovernment.— The Bill was then read a second time. APPELLATE JURISDICTION. The Earl of LIVERPOOL rose to call the attention of their Lordships to the state of the jurisdiction of the House with re yard to appeals. In consequence of the immense arrears of ropeals which had accumulated, their Lordships found them selves, a few Sessions ago, called upon to consider whether some means could not be devised for facilitating the administration of justice. A Committee was appointed to consider the sub ject, and that Committee made a report in the Session before last. What the state of things then was, would be seen by re ference to the first paragraph of the report. It appeared that the number of appeals and writs of error then existing in am ar was 225, out of which 150 appeals were from Scotland. This number, in consequence of the accumelation which was to be expected in the course of each succeeding Session, rendered it probable that the !louse in the ordinary course of its proceed ings would not be able to dispose of the appeals in arrear in a less period than five years. With respect to appeals, the Corn mittee found that those from Scotland were not only the most numerous, but that they were of the description which occupied the greatest portion of the time of the house. The question of , =rear was, the difficulty which their Lordships had to encoune ter ; for if the arrear could be got rid of, it would be easy to decide future appeals in the ordinary course. To facilitate the decision of cases from Scotland, an endeavour had been made by a change in the legal proceedings to separate questions of law from questions of fact. This measure, the effect of which must he very advantageous, was just cominginto operation ; so that their Lordships might be confident, if they once got rid of the arrear, that they could go cn prospectively without any diffi culty. The report of the COmmittee contained a number of valuable suggeStions. Amon; other things it was recommend- j cd, that a certain number of their Lordships should attend daily from nine o'clock till five, for the purpose of hearing appeals. Objection hail been made to compulsory attendance; but this course was finally adopted, .and their Lordships had had the. .advantage of the able assistance of a Noble and Learned Lord Witihrti), who had devoted much of his attention to proceed ince in appeal, and in particular to the law of Scotland, on which it was so often necessary to decide. The beneficial elects of this arrangement were soon felt on its coming into operation in the course of last year. At the commencement of last Session the number of appeals was 232, and of writs of error 74, making altogether 356. During the Session, 186 of these appeals were gone through, above 40 of them having been -struck ofF, so that at the end of the Session there remained only 1.70 Undisposed of. But-their liordshipe had to look, not onlyto the - number of appeals they decided, but to the nu m e'er orneW ones which were brought forward in asession.' The number which had come in on the commencement of this session was 52. The autreber of appeals then standing was 201, and of writs of error 23, making only 229, instead of 356, as at the beginning •of the preceding session. Of this number. 229, their Lordships had already disposed of 126 ; so that there' remained only 103 undecided. If their Lordships proceeded in this manner, by the end of next session there would be left only 26 or 2iap-, peals undecided ; but whether that number or 30, or a few more or less, it was evident that by going on they would corn pletely conquer the difficulty . which once appeared insurmount able, and that this would be done independently of the improve ment of the law of Scotland, which would render less probable _en great an accumulation of appeals from that country in . fu ture. It had been said, however, that this arrangement would only give ercasion to more appeals being brought. He did not talk so. If their hardships once showed that they were ca pable of promptly discharging all the judicial business which tame before them—if no delay was expected, so many appeals would not come before them. The decrease of appeals during • the two last sessions fortified him in his opinion. In 1823: the number brought was 59. In 1624, the number was 39, and in the present sessem of 1825, only 29: He now proposed, that of the five days of every week which a part of their Lordships sett to bear appeals, one day should be appropriated to the beating of those which should come in the course of the exist.: log session. If this arrangement were commenced next year, it would probably have a considerable effect both in disposing., of appesds, and in taking away the inducement to the bringing of them. The result of their Lordships' decisions might•also be stated. It appeared that out of 86 appeals brought during the session, 63 had beer, affirmed, 17 reversed, and 6 remitted. The arrangement which had been adopted, his Lordship said, lied, generally speaking, given great satisfaction in Scotland, • awl after expressing his sense of the credit due to the.Com raitose for originating the plan, to the House for carrying; it into effect, -and to all persons who assisted in its execution; he Concluded by moving for certain papers relating to the state of appeals, which were ordered. The Earl of ROSSINN expressed his great satisfaction at the measure which had been adopted. The Stauggling.Prevention Bill, the Customs' Consolidation gill, the Customs' Deities Bill, the Newspapers' Stamps Bill, the Ships' Register Bill; the Colonial Trade Bill, and several others, were cennei tted, , e . Colonel CAtVT II !t s: and others from theCommonsbrought up a copy of the report of the Committee on the state of Ireland • and the Customs" Temporary Duties BilL—Adjourned. HOUSE OF COMMONS. nity to make that extraordinary defence of the Duke? Wha' was the information upon which these petitioners proceeded in reprobating their Commander-in-Chief? Did they know any thing of the difficulties which impeded the final adjustment and distribution of the Deccan prize-money?• If ; they did, how came it that they had not imparted any of that , infontat.on which was so desirable for the..caie ? Would his gallant relit-- , tive undertake to say, that until signing tliis petition, Sir John Malcolm had ever hien heard of ; in the transactions ? Ile re peated what he had formerly ti:aitl; that the trustees had con ducted themselves in a most unprecedented manner ; and that if they did not alter their determination, and put_ themselyea,in communication with the cestui que trust, the greastest ,injustice would be done to the whole body of the captors. Sir R. HARDINGE complained of the misstatements and calamnies of an anonymous pamphlet published against the Duke of Wellington. The fact was, that until 1823 the trus tees.. had nothing to say to the distribution of the prize-money.— Since then Sir Thomas Hislop had been required to give in a list of the claimants, which was not delivered nil the sth of June. So far the fault of the delay was attributable to Sir Thomas Hislop.. The fact was, that both the Duke of Wel lington and 3lr. Arbuthnot had laboured indefatigably in the business on behalf of the soldiery andnificers of that army for which no man could. have a higher regard than himself. He was sorry that he was not in the Douse on a previous even ing, when the Hon, Member for Montrose presented a peti tion upon the subject, and the Hon. and Learned Civilian op posite took occasion to say that a certain written answer given by the Duke of Wellington was impudent and insolent in the highest degree. Why, to be sure it was easy for gentle men in their places to give utterance to expressions with respect to others who were of too. high dignity to notice them, which they would not venture to use to the Members of this House, or at any rate could not use them without incurring the responsi bility of a sharp reply. He did not wish to curtail the liberty of speech which any member might think proper to claim for himself ; but it really was difficult for any friend of that noble person to listen to such language without retortinghis own words upon the member who would venture so to use it. Lord FOLKESTONE spoke to order in negligence of which the Gallant Officer had taken upon himself to refer to a speech made upon a former evening by his lion. and Learned riend, although he had not heard it, and was, as he verily believed, proceeding upon a statement of it by no means correct. Sir H. HARDINGE contended for his right in meeting the assertions Made by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. The SPEAKER spoke to order. Mr. CANNING thought that the situation of his Gallant Friend was particularly hard. He had risen to defend a Noble Friend of his from an-attack which had been made in his ab sence, upon a petition, of the presenting of which no regular notice had been given, and he was met by the forms of the House. Had his Gallant Friend possessed a little more of Parliamentary tactics, he might have effected all that he wanted without interruption. He might have said, " I have read somewhere that expressions were used by somebody towards the Duke of Wellington," and he might have gone on to make his comments at pleasure. Sir H. HA RDINGE thanked his Right Hon. Frieni.l. It did certainly appear to him, that as the practice of the House in allowing the discussions to go abroad in Newspapers, had caused the circulation of the calumnies, so lie ought to have as fair an opportunity for answering them. fleelenied, then, on the part of Mr. Arbuthnot, that there ever was a design of, ap- ; pointing his son, who was a minor, in his place The state ment was false and calumnious. Mr. Arbuthnot's youngest son was 20 years of age. Be had .taken the opinion of the law officers upsin the right of appointing his son an agent, and he was informed that there would be nothiag illegal iii it. Such a system of clamour and calumny excited against men engaged in a business so arduous was highly to be deprecated. .The soldiers bad been taught to expect most unaccountable heaps of wealth. They looked actually to be paid; as it appeared by the abominable pamphlet which he held in his hand, for the public buildings and palaces of Deccan. As well might the Waterloo Army expect to be paid for the Tuileries ; or those of the Peninsula to be paid for the palaces of London and Madrid. Mr. HUME could not see what reason there was in the peti tion fhrthe warmth and agitation which had taken place. it was not delivered 'entirely without notice, as the Right lion. Secretary for-Foreign Affairs was pleased to assert.. No notice could be given to the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot, but the Chancellor of the Exchequer was sufficiently forewarned as being the properest'person to receive the information. He must contend still for his opinion, that the trustees had mis conducted themselves in their refusal to give information, • though they were ready to receive it, and in their other refusal to comnaunicate with those who were the most deeply interested. He wondered at the exaggerations which were attributed to the petition. In what part of it did the petitioners lay claim to tire price of public buildings, or to the share of any sum like two millions of money ? On the contrary, their petition expressly set forth that they had learned that there was a sum amounting to 700,0001. distributable among the claimants to the booty. All they asked was information. The trustees most unwarrantably refused it, and they aline to the House for a remedy. Sir H. HARDINGE said, that the Duke of Wellington never had , refused . information ; on the contrary, he had in a fornied Sir Thomas Hislop that the papers were at his service to inspect them at the office, he or any of his staff; but he would not let them be shown to attornies and solicitors. Mr. S. RICE felt convinced, that if his Hon. and Gallant Friend had heard the expressions of his Hon. and Learned Friend, he would see the impropriety of expostulating with any Member for expressions attributed to him by the reports of newspapers. , Sir H. HARDINGE said, that the discussions of the House L were circulated by a custom which the House allowed to exist. Both of the expressions which he had ascribed to the Hon. and Learned -Gentleman had been inserted in those reports, and spread round the country. It would better believe any Ho nourable 3lember not to find - fault with the reporters, wilt) only printed the words, if be intended to pass by the Member who used- them, especially as no expression of regret or retracting had been.evinced. The SPEAKER again interposed.—The Hon. and Gallant Member was proceeding in the most disorderly of all courses which could be adopted. In the first place, it was contrary to order to refer to expressions used in a former debate in any case. In the second place, to refer to representations of a for mer debate, which could not be ;circulated without the inter vention- of practices in themselves disorderly, was still less to be tolerated ; but it was more disorderly still to call on any Member openly for explanation upon the contents of reports Obtained by a breach of order. Sir H. lIA RDINGE admitted that he might have been out of order; but intimated some expectation that the Hon. and Learned Gentleman would quality or retract some parts of his former speech. Mr. BROUGHAM was surprised at the method taken to obtain explanation by the Hon. and Gallant Member, who had not condescended to ask a single question in private, as in pru dence anti courtesy bound; but came down with a newspaper report hot upon another lion. Member, and never inquiring_ ".did you or did you not use these expressions ?" publicly de mended explanation. The Hon. and Gallant Member was not justified in thus venting his feelings unconditionally. His plan seemed to be to punish or strike, and then to hear. Sir H. HA RDINGE said something which was supposed to imply a request that the words might be . retracted by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. Mr. BROUGHAM resun ed —Then he did complain loudly • of the conduct of Hon. and Gallant Member. Good God ! was be' or any other man to come down and let out his fury on any Gentleman •who might be suspected merely by him of speaking disrespectfully of the Duke of Wellington, because , he - was a - friend of that Nobleman, without one preliminary inquiry, and in a way which must of necessity .preclude the chance of ex planation ? What man of• spirit would stoop to explain, • even -if he were conscious that the imputations were wrong, under those circumstances ? Suppose he were to have a similar grudge against the Hun. anti . Gallant Officer; or any other Gentleman and were to begin his expostulation thus—" You infamous fellow, you have here said that which is calumnious of my friend."—.(symptoms of dissent from Sir 11. Harding,: and the Chancellor of -the' Exchequer.) - --11 - e did rot impute those expi eeions, or any directly like them, to the Ga Officer; hut in - asking for explanation, there was a w. y of doing it which might lead to explanation ; there was iintele;r way witch totally precluded it. He must tell the Hon. 2 n Gallant Gentleman that neither the high station of the Duke of Wellington, nor the interest the country held in him, nor. the vehemence used in defending him by any Member in that House, could ever - deter either himself or others from expressir n er their opinions frankly. upon their pub lic cond uct. The Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot might be very amiable characters in private; but they were in this case pith lie men, clOthed with a public trust, and there was public money concerned in that trust; and as honest stewards to the public, he and every one - in that House was bound to scrutinize the Duke's conduct. Be proceeded to express his . opinion upon this much of that conduct. lie had been con sulted p ofeetionally by the attornies anointed by those who were interested in the booty. Mr. Arbuthitot's son might be of age now ; but was he not a minor at the time of the appoint. merit before alluded to ?—(tt No, no.") —Be that fact as it might, he had g i ve n his opinion to the claimants that the appointment of young Arbuthnot to be the Agent would have been illegal ; and that by the provisions of tire Prize Act, a penalty of 5001. would have been incurred by a single trans_ action of his in that appointment. And then, what followed ?. The gentleman opposite talked of attack. There wits an at tack, indeed, made-upon the legal advisers of Sir Hislop— an attack which was so utterly gross that it could only he ex tenuated, it could not be justified by the profound ignorance of . DECCALNI PRIZE MONEY.. lynet LUSH l NGTON presented a Petition from several 411 . 1..acrs of considerable rank in the • East India, Army, inte rested in the distribution of the Deccan Prize-money, and signed by Sir John Malcolm, in favour of the appointment of the Duke of Wellington.and Mr. Arbuthnot as Trustees. CHANCNI,LOR of the-EXCHEQUER was glad to hear the ex.pressions of the •petitionerti.. Never were men so severely -treated i-s the trustees had been. They - knew well what eibla. l uy would attend the discharge of a duty so difficult. They were aware that the most. extravagant expectations were enter tainel by both officers and men as to the amount of the booty. 'They knew. that the claims made were'too exorbitant, compris ing as they. did two millions of money . ,: and the expectation cf being paid even for• the public buildings and palaces. Any other men would. have shrunk from such a responsibility. The Duke of Wellington had been advised to have nothing to -do with it; but with a magnanimity not surprising in him, he cow-Mercd that no man in the service could be better acquainted with that array, and the whole of the circumstances .of the cap ture,- and therefore en man was better qualified for the task than himself. And fror.i first to last, since he had taken the subject into his hands, he had been met by nothing but obloquy and inisrenreaentation, reproaches arid calumnies, the most unfoun& ed and the least deserved. Dr. LUSH INg TON, notwithstanding the warmth of tone and expression adopted by the-Right-Hon. Gentleman, persist ed in the assertion which he had made on a previous evening— that the behaviour of the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuth not, as trustees of that booty, had been most unprecedented.— , lie was surprised at this new zeal of. justification on behalf of that Noble Duke. And then the petition which his Hon. and gallant relative had just presented, from whom did it come ? From a part of Sir T. Ilialop's army, which army had called upon him to make that representation which the petitioners, parties interested, now -ventured to reprobate in their Corn mandsr-in-Chief. 'Did it not look as if this petition had been got up in consequence of what took , places few nights ago, with a view to giving the Right Hon. Gentleman an opportu- the law evinced by the Trustees. They offered to show Sir Thomas Hislop, Major and Colonel Wood, the documents on condition that they did not show them to the lawyers 1 And the ground of this prohibition was still more offensive—" be cause there was.too great a disposition in certain quarters to entertain law proceedings." Now the love of lawyers for liti gation was a vulgar, gross, and every-day- charge made against lawyers.—(Hear, hear, from the Ministerial benches.)—and the alight Hon. Gentleman, perhaps, in this particular, wished to be counted among the gross and vielgar crowd out of doors. At any rate, it was a stale charge, it was as old as the hills, and of i tacit oritirjual source of merriment to the profession. It was, however, utterly groundless. Four out of every five opinions given by lawyers were against the case submitted to them. Ile himself frequently told clients that they had no .Case, to keep them gut of Court, though in principle they might have a very good case, but not one which would repay the ex pence and trouble of a- suit. But now who were these lawyers did the House suppose ? He admitted, that for himself and his Learned Friend near him (Dr. Lushington) nothing could be said : they were lawyers without redemption. But Dr..lenner. was, joined with them in .their opinion—a man as little 'of a Whig as any Gentleman opposite—a very worthy lawyer, with an eacellent T or y spirit. Next was Mr. Adam, a King's Counsel=-a man of no violent politics, scarcely any politics at all, and a friend to the Duke of Wel lington. Then who else was there ? Oh ! what if a Judge was amongst them ?. What if Lord Wellington, as a Cabinet Minister, had since joined in recommending this person to the Crown as a fit associate among the Twelve Judges of the land. Mr. Gaselee had joined them in their opinion. Then there was iilr. William Harrison, the known familiar of the Tree ettry—who, " most unkindest act of all," turned upon them. Really, people who talked of attacks unjustifiable, and so forth, ought to have in remembrance the old adage of the danger of persons who live in certain houses, throwing stones.. For this very Nobleman, who seemed to be so very touchy by repre sentation, and who had been so touchily defended by the gallant officer, did not scruple to make this unjustifiable attack upon the profession and character of the respect able lawyers whom he had named. He was only stating what his duty compelled him to state ; and undoubtedly, on the other hand, time lawyers ought not to have been at tacked in the way they had been. With respect to the pant- • phlet, which had been alluded to as calumnious and libellous. he could only state that he had read the greater part of . it, anti that it appeared to him to be a niece detail of the correspon dence, and that time few. observations that were interspersed were in every respect temperate and respectful. It contained no charges, and left the public to draw their own inferences, anti to form their own opinions, upon the correspondence which it detailed. Besides, if it was a libel, the Courts of Law were open to the parties ; they were open to the in dividual complained of as well as to the Duke. An ac tion at law would bring to light the whole of the matter: The party's guilt or innocence of the charge would then he established. If guilt was not proved, no apology would be due—if guilt could be proved, the parties on whose behalf the Hon. and Gallant General had spoken would become the clients of his Hon. and Learned Friend the Attorney-General ; and the other parties would be represented by other Ilon. and Learned Friends whom he knew in this House. And this course of proceeding, he begged to say, would be much better and more decent than talking in big words there. Sir H. HAHDINGE and Mr. BROUGHAM mutually ex plained. Mr. PEEL really -thought there existed some great misap prehension. on this matter. .He had certainly heard his Hon. and Gallant Friend speaking with great warmth and. anima tion.; but certainly he had not heard him utter any expres sion that could be justly considered offensive to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman. He did think that his Hon. and Gallant Friend was mistaken, in the first instance, in attributing the language alludsd to the Hon. and Learned Gentleman ' • but he must say that he thought he had heard that Learned Gentle man use very extraordinary language. The last declaration made by the Gallant Officer, that he was not aware there would be a petition presented to-night, and that there would' be any opportunity of entering into such a discussion, must im mediately establish to everybody's satisfaction, that whatever his Hon. and Gallant Friend had said was said without preme ditation. By this fact was still further made out by the consie aeration that if he had uttered ens/thing which could really and justly be considered by the•Honse as offensive, the Speaker would necessarily hate directly interposed to order. Now -the chair had not so interposed, facepting only on that part of. the speech where his lion. and Gallant Friend had ieferred to what had passed at a former Parliamentary debate, which reference was declared to be irregular. For his own part he (Mr. Peel) • • . ADJOURNMENT. could say that he even had not seen the pamphlet referred to, . Mr..CANNING moved that the House, on its rising, do and so he could not speak to the passages that had been called Adjourn to Tuesday next.—Agreed to. . • . in question ; but two individuals of higher character, of finer • YEOMANRY. honour, or more disinterested application to the duties of office, • Mr. S. WORTLEY said he wished to know from the. Right than the Duke of Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot, it would non. Gentleman opposite if it was the intention of Government have been impossible to select for the difficulty and 'responsible to give any Additional allowances to the Yeomanry Cavalry of ' discharge of this trusteeship. And when he coositlered the the country. . greatsportioo of time and attention which the Noble Duke must . Air. Secretary PEEL said no man held the services of the devote, apart from his other public occupations, to this arduous Yeomanry Cavalry in higher estimation than he, but he was not queetion he must be permitted to say that such reflections as disposed at present to make any addition to their allowances. those which had been thrown out against him were a bad return. There were some erroneous ideas. upon the subject, in conse for all the readiness with which be had accepted time execution• quence of which, several of the Yeomanry corps had sent in of this duty. their resignation, not on account , of any unwillingness on the Mr. CANNY:aII h a d been endeavouring to bring to his re- part of the men, but und er an impres s ion that alterations were . collection as distinctly as possible. what were the expressions to be made. - Thole resignations were willingly received by the fallen from the llon. and Learned Gentleman on a Government, which returned its thanks, and expressed its gra. tittitie for the services of th ese cor p s . There were temptations former night, and had been -this evening commented on by his Hon. and Gallant Friend behind him. lie could not, however, formerly to enter into the Yeomanry which did not exist at recollect with certainty much of what the Hon. anti Learned present—such as the exemption from' taxes, which were now - repealed. -He was now a ppli e d to, for the purpose of creating Gentlemanon that occasion said, hut in regard Co the applica tioa which - hail - been made by his Hon. and Gallant Friend of exemptions from filling civil offices—such as that of 'constable, th e word " insult" or "insolence," it appeared to him ( lr. in favour of those who became Yeomen. This required great Canning) that the word, if used, was meant to apply, not to consideration. If we retain the Yeomanry, we should not make any individual, but to that letter of which so much • had been the office of constable less respectable. If the allowances made said, and that passage in it wherein it now aPneared a clerical to the Yeomanry upon permanentwlety were not sufficient, he error had been committed. To the passage as it stool there, lie would prefer. their increase to any indirect inducement which understeeni the Hon. and Learned Gentleman to have applied mar have injurious effects upon. other offices that.shoOld be the epithet " insolent," or the substantive "insolence." It upheld. . • • was printed "the said William Harrison." instead of "ahe Mr.. LITTLETON was glad that several small troops, said dlr. Harrison ;" but in the original manuscript which were of no service, and which only received „their pay, letter, it seemed, time word "Mr." was inserted. Having had sent-in their resignations. 'I he remaining corps would be stated this fact, which appeared to obviate the objections that more respectable: Further inducetnents should be held- out to had arise i out of in fact a misprint, he must add, that he per- become yeomen in those counties where such a. force was indis fectly con nirred with his Right Hon. Friend in- thinking, that Peasabla necessara• it was no hart of the:Hon. and Learned Gentleman's duty to get Mr. aIAI3ERLY approved highly of the conduct of the up in suc m a quarter. Perhaps the same objection did not apply Right Hon. Gentleman opposite. All the corps which were to ate explanation (if we understood the Right Hon. Gentle- inefficient should be called in. He himself , commanded a man rigimly) on his part. . . . corps which was inefficient; and if the matter came to dis- Dr. LaIsaINGTON, after what had been. said by the Hon. cussion, he would vote that it should either be struck off or do Gentleman, would rather part with his existence than submit- its duty. He did not approve of exemptions from civil offices. to the degradation of explaining.—( Hear, hear !)—He could -He preferred an increase of pay. not think of explaining a single expression that he had uttered; Mr. Secretary PEEL thought the yeomanry corps should be for not oily had the words he had used on a former night been placed, as often as possible, consistently with public economy, commented on by the Hon. and Gallant. Member for Durham, .upon permanent duty, and should, during this period, be sub. but com vented on in this way, while.that Hon. Member had ject to a strict and severe inspection . in his own hands the very original manuscript of the letter in • EVACUATION OF SPAIN. question which contained upon the face of it time explanation Mr. BROUGHAM rose for the purpose of asking the Right of what - he (Dr. bushingtoo) had said on that former occasion. -Hon. Gentleman opposite a question, to which he trusted he Knowing that he (Dr. Lushington) had commented upon that would receive an explicit and satisfactory answer. During•the which now turned out to be, in point of fact, a misprint from -course of the Session he had most cautiously abstained from the original, the Hon. and Gallant Member seemed to. think broaching the subject, from a disinclination (if he bad no other himself justified in coming down there and expressing the reason) of involving this Government with that of France. He strongest reprobation of a condnet occasioned by that error abstained from this topic, because he was fearful lest he . should which himself at the same time pointed out to the House's interfere with Mi nisters in the delicate and difficult ne g ociations observation. He ( D r . L us hie gton) s ho u ld have betrayed his that might be going on. He.was fearful lest discussions should duty as a Member of Parliament—he should have been desti- arise here which may excite pain .in the minds of persons in tute of the courage of it man—he should have been utterly un- poWer in. France and Austria, and produce dangerous, if' not worthy to sit in that House for a single moment, if' he conde- fatal,consequences to those illustrious and gallant prisoners who, scendad to enter into one sentence of explanation.—(Bear, martyrs to that cause to which the y hav e devoted themselves, hear !)—lrritatedfer, a moment he certainly might have been ; have willingly sacrificed all that is dear to man. For liberty they intimidated he never could be—(Heav e Meer !)—and if he have sacrificed all except their honour, which they have retained could think it worth while to explain-we any individual, he un- pure and unsullied. He abstained from the subject because he doubtedly would not do so on this osreataion. Now, as to what was fearful lest, with the best intentions, he might undo that for time Hon. Memb er fo r D ur h a m had said in describing the lan- which he was most anxious, and add to the effects of that violent guage used by him (Dr. Lushington) on a former night; to the and unjust policy pursued towards these individuals:by, the best of his• recollection the Hon. and Gallant Gentleman had -Powers to which he alluded, and an alteration in which would stated it q u it e a c c ur a tely, except as to one word. The word entitle them to the highest gratitude of all countrieee even -of insolence" had never passed his lips; he shOnld have..consie those not well disposed towards them. He abstained, during the dered it, und er an y circumstances,- a ferry unbecoming and Session, frem making inquiries respecting Spain, for. fear time imprope r term t o e mploy ; he should have thought it indecent. Holy Alliance should become a 9uestion of discussion, anti lan- But, knowi ng th at t h e. p a p er wa s signed by Mr. Harrison, who gliage would probably be used irritating to oth ers , a nd conic was a learned an d em i nen t Co u n s el, t h e l aw a d v i ser o f th e Trea- - qu ently injurious to the illustrious men of wh om h e h a d s p o k en : sury, and th e b r oth er or a Secretary of a Board at which Mrs but now, as the Session had drawn to a close, there could be Arbuthnot s a t, h e m i g ht p os sibly h ave c h a r acter i se d the letter -no discussion of an irritating nature, as the subject would be as an insulti ng 1etter........( Hear !)—The House could not call reduced to the narrowest. possible limit. H e wou ld as k hi s upon him to say more, titan that he had been, therefore, mis- Majesty's Ministers a question—Upon a former occasion he re taken upon a mat t er which any individual would have -been membered it was said, the French troops were to retain posses mi taken about who had not seen the original manuscript. He sion of Spain until Ferdinand was restored to power. Ferdinand wished to remark, before he sat down, that it was a mistake to was most unhappily (as h e t h oug h t) long restored to power; suppose that lie had been counsel for Sir Thomas Hislop. lie- and it might now be said th a t-th e French • are -to retain posses had been counsel in this case for the Marquis-of Hastings ; an d sion of SFain until he be re s t ore d to what they may he pleased all those fe e li ngs an d pass i ons w hi c h cou ld b e su pposed to have to call full power. If suc h b e t h e case , t h ey • have a carte been excited i n hi m as a lawyer'' and an advocate were in fa- blanche—they have unlimit e d possess i on . Th e a'rench held at your of th e m arqu i s of Hastings, amid against Sir T. Hislop; present various fortresses—St. Sebastian, and he believed Cadiz. put he thought it but just to Sit Hislop to notice the Their army in the Peninsula amounted, it was understood, to question in th e w a y he had done; and. under the impres sion 30 or 40,000 men. This occupancy may be said to be lawful as upon whi c h h e h a d acted, he had :done 'what he conceived to long as France say be his duty. • ' says this is my policy, and as long as Ferdinand says it is his also: but it is our policy to prevent it, because it Sir HENRY HW RDINGE begged to repeat, that'the par- is unsafe for Europe, and contrary to the old policy of this titular wor n w hi c h h e com pl a i ne d o t h e thought to be a very country. They might alle g e, as another ground a defence, improp e r c ne ; and if it had been employed, as he conceived it that as long as there was a _struggle in the New NVorld, they had been by the Hon. and Learned Gentleman, he still thought should keep the French troops •in Spain, and regiments it very improper. —(Hear !) - of Swiss Guards in Madrid, for the purpose of being Lord .1. RUSSELL in this letter observed that.the Duke of enabled -to send Spanish regiments to. fight _the freemen at' Wellington and Mr. Arbuthnot said, " they had observed South America. This, as a defence, was also unfounded. It througho u t th e consideration of this,question a strong desire on could not j ust if y .the occupat i on -upon t h e part of France. the part of s o me t o go t o law. NOW,.certainly , if this expres. The policy-of that country must be looked upon as most dan. ;ion w ee m ean t t o apple to the lawyers who had been retained gerous, as most .alarming, by anyperson who reflected upon in the case, it _was an..offensive one. ~It was, in that event, as the balance of . power that ought to be .preserved. What mu much offensive as it would be to say that the Duke of Welling ton, being a great Captain himself, was for our going to war-; the inference being that war would be profitable to him. But the other part of this letter seemed to spew that no such reflec tion was intended ; and that the. passage applied not to the law yers, but to those who employed them; for it imported" that there was to be no reference to counsel or attornies, except on points previously referred to their decision." Mr. BROUGHAM was much obliged to his Noble Friend for taking the - trouble to give this explanation to the House; but he could assure him the words wouldot bear any such construction. This prohibition to refer to the ' , ,counsel and at tonnes, though accompanied 'by such an excention, was of a dangerous nature. There were some seven of them in all ; and he must say that he wondered at such a regulation levelled by two Members of the Government against men, among whom was a gentleman whom he had the' pleasure of knowing very well—a most eminent and respectable solicitor, the founder of the Pitt Club.-.--(llear !)—Now, to be sure this club, calling itself after Mr. Pitt, did in fact reject all the old Pittites ; and Under a peculiar sort of notion of the matter, admitted none but those whose principles were really contrary to the principles of Mr. Pitt.—(A laugh.)—Still this gentleman was the oldest Member of the Pitt Club; and to him no imputation like that thrown out in the letter could apply; for not to mention. that in a business so extensive act his was, a single additional cause would be mere moonshine, it did so happen that in this case of the Deccan prize-money it would be more lucrative to him not to go to law at all, but to have the undisturbed ma nagement of his clients' interests in the distribUtion. Sir R. FERGUSSON must say that his Hon. and Gallant Friend used some language on this occasion which he (Sir R. Fergusson) could net feel to be proper. Whatever his Hon. aad Gallant Friend might think of the letter, there was a. great difference in point of the notion conveyed to men's minds be. tween the phrase of " the said W. Harrison," and " the said Mr. W. Harrison." That the Honourable and Gallant Gentleman . , conceiving that a friend of his—and such a friend, ton, as the Duke of Wellington—had been spoken - of disrespectfully, should be betrayed into some degree of warmth was perfectly natural ; but now that .he perceived the Hon. and Learned Gentleman (Dr. Lushington) had spoken upon a former night in reference to 'the phrase in print,- which was this day proved, however, to be incorrectly printed, - lie (Sir R. Fergusson) did trust the Hon. - and Gallant Member would be prevailed on to express his regret for any excess of warmth that he might have been led into. In .giving this ad vice, he begged to assure the lion. and Gallant Gentleman that he never could advise an Hon. Friend like himself, and more especially one who belonged to the same service with himself, to any course of proceeding that might in the slightest degree be derogatory to his character. On the contrary, he was now sug gesting exactly what he would suggest, under similar circum stance: to his own brother.—( Hear !) Sir H. HARDINGE declared, that really if any Hon. Gen tleman would undertake to - point out to him a single unparlia mentary expression that he had employed,' he would not hesi tate a moment to retract it, and express even his regret for it. Whether, however, the Doke of Wellington in his letter had made use of the words " Harrison" or " Mr. William Harrison," it could affbrd no justification of the term "inso lent," as applied to that letter. This was'a word, as he appre hended, altogether indefensible. The SPEAKER said, that he rose with the. double purpose of bearng his testimony, to the best of recollection, as to whit had really been said; and at the same time of apologizing to the House for the great omission of which he had been guilty, if he was wrong in supposing that nothing unparliamentary had fallen froM the Hon. and Gallant Officer. Now his impression was to that effect; and had it been different, he (the Speaker) would have been unpardonable for neglecting to interrupt the Hon. Member at.the time. The Hon. Member had just expressed his entire willingness to retract any thing unparliamentary that might have fallen from him ; and by so doing he had done him self the highest honour, and no more than justice to the House, as well as to himself (the Speaker), if he might be permitted to say so, becauSe he then intimated a belief that the Speaker would have apprised the House of any disorderly observations had he been conscious of them. Mr. PEEL, submitted that theamconsciouanes of any Hon. Gentleman that he was giving offence by any observations was a aufEcient apology in respect of those observations. Dr. LUSHINGTON said, that he certainly had been hurt at having insolence imputed to him ; but as the Gallant Officer had declared that he• was unconscious of having used or in tended any thing offensive, he was satisfied. — (hear, hear !) The petition was brought up, and read, and ordered to be printed. not the consequence be Oa war were to occur, with the iron coast of Ireland (situated as that country is) exposed not to the troops of Spain, for those we would not fear, but to the troops of France. He therefire asked for information respecting the evacuation of Spain, and he; trusted he would receive a satis factory answer. He asked the qudstion' at the close of a Ses sion in which two Acts had betn pasSed with little opposition, to which he could not advert without regret. He perbaps should not allude to the policy practised towards Ireland, as that appears to stand upon a pecidiar footing. or' its own, though, in this respect, the House had not so anuch to con, plain of' the manner in which it had sated, as of not having received support elsewhere. The other enactment which-he regretted was that which he would called the Act for increasing the dependence of the Judges. He had asked all i those in the profession—those who were next in succession to the Bench, and they all agreed that 5,5001. were too much for a Puisne Judge. There was, however, he was glad to say, one mistake corrected, where corrections were nut generally made, and contrary to the practice of certain high quarters.— An increase was given to a most meritorious and deserving Judge—the Vice-Chancellor was placed upon an equality with the Master of the Rolls. It was said that the House would be sorry to see this Judge under-paid ; but surely this would be the case when Puisne Judges received 5,5001. a year. An in dividual holding the state and filling the situation of Vice- Chancellor, should not be worse paid than other Judges. He regretted that he had not brought this subject before the House at an earlier period of the Session; it was, however, never too late to do an act of justice. Sir. Secretary CANNING would inform the Learned Gen tleman that he might take it for granted that the subject to which he directed attention had not escaped the eyes of his Majesty's Ministers. It had occupied their attention, it occu pied it still. He was prepared to say that he had received the • most decided assurances from the French Government that there was not the slightest shadow of intention to•continue the occupation of the fortresses of Spain. So far from retaining these fortresses, • of which so much had been heard, the French were reducing them according to the orders of Spain. And he had the assurance of the Spanish Government,' that not 'a sons of French money was expended upon them. Of the truths of these statements he was perfectly satisfied. In the month of December a distinct application wes made to the French Government for a disclosure of its intentions- with regard to Spain. The army of occitpation was then. educed to 22,000 men. These troops were to be with drawn in' the. month of April, and the withdrawal .either has or is in the act of takingplate ; he could not state the precise pe riod at which the remainder were to be withdrawn. This eon.' sideration would lead to a larger view and a wider scope than. were proposed by the Learned Member. The feelings of the French Government upon this subject were widely different from those attributed to them by the Learned Member, for neither he (d r. Canning) nor the Learned Gentleman, could be • more desirous of having these troops withdrawn than that, very Government. This result would have appeared if the. objects foretold by the French and Spanish Governments had occurred. - When these.might occur it was utterly impossible for him to say.. He could inform the Learned Member, that he did not feel the slightest degree of alarm, apprehension, or jealousy upon the .subject, and he was sure the French had bonape intentions of evacuating Spain. Lord JOHN RIISSEI4L said a few words which were in audible in the gallery. The Noble Lord made some allusion., to Conventions made between. France arid Spain. Mr. Secretary CANNING would remind the Noble Lot& that the first convention respecting the evacuation made be tween the countries was definite as to time ; the latter was per'. fectly indefinite, and might be brought to a conclusion, • no t ac cording to the pleasure of Ferdinand, but that of the French government.' Lord JOHN RUSSELL hoped the French Government' would deeM it most Consistent with expediency and good pnlici to withdraw the troops as speedily as possible. Whilst upon this subject he could not refrain from saying it was a melan' - choly spectacle to see men of the best and kindest disposition * in Italy, perhaps in the world, immured in dungeons, con' demned to the work of galley slaves, suffering privations that would appear intolerable to • the meanest manufacturer in d' country. It was an afflicting spectacle to see m e n of the higheA rank in society, accustomed to the enjoyment of all the plea:' sures of social and literary life, thus reduced. He would o°` speak harshly of the Government of Austria, but it would coo" ciliate the friends of all parties by relaxing. the severity . of, treatment towards those unfortunate persons, an d by ac ting 3 , • if it supposed t he ti me t o b e arr i ve d w h en a - syste m of went was no longer essentially, necessary for its.preservatien. L e e l i ' 4l l l Sir R. WILSON thought that as long as the spring of,tD; Spanish Government .Was -.directed by -the holy Alliance, v . would be vain to. xpect principles of faith or good government from that country. Mr. would b S e ec p r e e r ta fe r c y tl e y A sat N is N ii l ed N d at h i e d ari n ontgittralv the ttitnnheeNfo.orbt p eventsy i n e ,evacuationfictce shouldwha ,bnieoveten him leiedsaiylse diminished l yt o e . 0 bn i e t e a il d lnali s e u fr. p n g t t i l l , a t h t t l t i t e at all _ - POOR RATES. mi Lo tt zd to F e O x l a t in E e S ~ :tos nt hd e v r i c yc o h r th ao ft b th ec e n e: 42 ;,_i , recently delivered from the vote office, observed.that this g i p'!" ' p r o? r N r E a rates i r k e u t d u i r n n g s report which called for the most serious attention of the and of the Government of the country. From this Or I , O W' would appear that the poor rates had decreased. Thi. , 0 1. ever, was a fallacy. They had in reality incretved: sulations were erroneous; and this error proceeded from c oa° cuinstance.of the price of wheat not having been taken ist,, 6 t t 1 sideration, and with ref:let-4e to the four periods to Whic' report was referable. ' rov After a few words fromGunNEY and - TErr Ar, the conversation dropped. . . . • BUENOS AYRES. • Mr. BARING said thztt one of the • o( with t ll6 ,tinet4 he treaties American States had beelf-Aaid upon the table, and tha t etc : - 0 9 soon would be—he alluded to the treaty with the State of 43 t l e et Ayres. But he now wished to know whether it was by accl a or design that the Minister of that State was not preiel, ,te th is the King? lie begged to assure the House that he tna f ," e „ t ie' inquiry without the knowledge of the very respectable t' e l l o rie man who was the Minister of-that State. .He-would „ t o' to another circumstance, namely, as to _ the course to be rag sued towards many of the officers who had, with great coarte of and patriotism, entered - into" foreign service. In the then a t ' t ea, things, perhaps, the policy pursued might have been tolcra eta for the sake of our allies. But now that the battle of indeFlo' Bence had been fought and gained, he thought abet ~tavl4d i n. vision of the Foreign -Enlistment Bill, enal.ling. — cnil n° done formers to inform against such officers, shoulti• now he ' l ice away. The law was enacted. upon political grounds , a t t . : ol4 V necessity- for its continuance having passed away, he t ` a n." they should return to the old and wholesome state of the la ss o, We ourselveS had officers in the service of Russia, P rk/ ea ce , Austria, and Spain- and he thought that, in time of .11.:t ii' officers should be allowed to keep up • their martial sp":08 the service of other countries. France was now, doing W e ' the thing; and he merely threw. out _these observations for consideration of Ministers during the recess. • wi ts ' Mr,PEEL regretted that the first question was not pu.t h t he his Right Hon. Friend was in the House; as he left it vil tl „ tr o notion that he would not , be called for. With. respect `" t otet other Powers alluded to, nothing had occurred in Europe the determination of this Government in their regard. 0 ragard to the power of preventing th e e nlistment of -sub.lv_noet the King into Foreign service, h e would say that such 3 f/i_ ought to exist-in the Crown. As to the next point, na tne fo reie t power of informing against officers who had en listed in_ sto service, he could only say that no inconvenience as yet " • from it, for no one information had yet -been laid. BOARD OF TRADE ot . f Mr. BARING wishcd to put anher question as e to taoo t office of his Right Hon. Friend the President of t" Ge ntl e .; of Trade. Every man'-who knew'what that Right Hon- t hat 1 4 man had to do, and the salary he received,. must knrctry 'se -was totally inadequatel to remunerate him. .His i tU r t only equalled by his knowled ge , an d wou ld be unli e l aor House, and-in - the atitintry, not to pay him linerallY . to chi. the attention of the Governm e nt wou ld be directe d subject. Mr. PEEL fully agreed with the observations of the e to d) 'Member. No man could Ibrin more zeal and abilla, re. discharge of any public duty than his Right Hon. ir te er eriod, he agreed with the Hon. Member, that few wen 11, is P r ay , actuallytadmitted itto h u e nt a le s r u t o l e. ee c t on h s i inadequately remunerated: He could not say tha t ` t .oove,: e i: m cu e l o ar t, i i n m at t te h r e a w d a n a lt te attention. . . • i , Sir R.- WILSON wished to know if the Minister e` the cognised State of South ameriea would be received I ' s tG ulster of any European*rn • in fro Mr. PEEL said, that was not the question p to tea Hon. Member. It was as to Whether lie was prevr ce rtiti n ri e l attending by accident or design. He could say Wi t ':,,casi ° ,ct , that the non-attendante of that Minister was n nt ea - n 0 , 4 0 1i by any representation - from any or alt the En' n ,P"," tin t " which could have no influence whatever with thi s such a subject. aor P e '; : On the motion that the House do adjourn to Toe s , e Mr. HUME objected to the present amount of ti' ce , r e• unnessary for our security at home, or our independer' a he r o e' igdhelryation o tt, lie hoped Ministers would consider the subject, a ri t se6s descry" Fared to reduce it by:the commencement . 6f the ne % ,a lie Ile protested tv , • against extensive establishments, al t k°lint i. mitred that much good had: been done during ' the d is INDIA. Sir C. FORBES said, he was extremely aorli;enifr, House should s ep ar at e without any information sisallgY before them as to die present state of India. p i ,„„ n 6P g at.r believed, listl been received in the ecret.DePg'-